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This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit andrewsullivan.substack.comJeffrey Toobin is a lawyer, author, and the chief legal analyst at CNN, after a long run at The New Yorker. He has written many bestselling books, including True Crimes and Misdemeanors, The Oath, The Nine, and Too Close to Call, and two others — The Run of His Life and A Vast Conspiracy — were adapted for television as seasons of “American Crime Story” on the FX channel.You can listen right away in the audio player above (or on the right side of the player, click “Listen On” to add the Dishcast feed to your favorite podcast app). For two clips of our convo — why the Bragg conviction helped Trump, and the origins of lawfare with Bill Clinton — pop over to our YouTube page.Other topics: growing up in NYC as the only child of two journos; his mom was a pioneering TV correspondent; his dad was one of founding fathers of public television; Jeffrey at the Harvard Crimson and then Harvard Law; how Marty Peretz mentored us both; the conservative backlash after Nixon and rebuilding executive power; Ford's pardon; Jeffrey on the team investigating Oliver North; the Boland Amendment and the limits of law; Cheney's role during Iran-Contra; how Congress hasn't declared war since WWII; Whitewater to Lewinsky; Ken Starr and zealous prosecutors; Trump extorting Ukraine over the Bidens; Russiagate; the Mueller Report and Barr's dithering; how such investigations can help presidents; the Bragg indictment; the media environment of Trump compared to Nixon; Fox News coverage of Covid; Trump's pardons; hiding Biden; the immunity case; SEAL Team Six and other hypotheticals; Jack Smith and fake electors; the documents case; the check of impeachment; the state of SCOTUS and ethics scandals; Thomas and the appearance of corruption; the wives of Thomas and Alito; the Chevron doctrine; reproductive rights; the Southern border and asylum; Jeffrey's main worry about a second Trump term; and his upcoming book on presidential pardons.Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Eric Kaufmann on liberal extremism, and Bill Wasik and Monica Murphy on animal cruelty. (Van Jones' PR team canceled his planned appearance.) Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.Here's a fan of last week's episode with Anne Applebaum:I loved your freewheeling interview with Applebaum. Just like the last time she was on, each of you gave as good as you got.I tend to agree more with her, because I fear that sometimes you come off as what Jeane Kirkpatrick called the “blame America first crowd” — not that we haven't committed our sins. But if we didn't exist, Putin would still be evil and want to recreate the Warsaw Pact, and the mullahs in Iran would still be fanatics despite our CIA involvement. It's complicated.Another on foreign policy:I despise Putin, my sympathies are totally with the Ukrainians, and I get angry when people like Rod Dreher and Tucker Carlson imply that the Russians were forced by the West to invade Ukraine. But, so what! You hit the nail on the head with the Obama quote — that Ukraine is never going to mean as much to us as it does to them (the Russians). You also made another very good point that the Russians can't even conquer Ukraine, but we're supposed to fear they will march West? How they going to do that?!Another took issue with several things from Anne:You raised the immigration issue, and Applebaum completely dismissed it: Hungary doesn't have a migrant crisis. … Because it's a useful symbol [to] create fear and anxiety. … This is the oldest political trick in the book, and the creation of an imaginary culture war is one of the ways in which you build support among a more fearful part of the population.WTF? Are Hungarians not allowed to see what is happening in every other European country that has allowed mass migration and see the problems it has caused and proactively decide to prevent this?! Are they not allowed to be concerned until Budapest has the banlieues of Paris, the car bombing gangs of Sweden, and the grooming gangs of England?! And in Germany, it has been recently reported that almost half of people receiving social payments are migrants.Applebaum followed that up with an even bigger gobsmacker about Biden's cognitive decline: “This is another road I don't want to go down, but I know people who met with Joe Biden a couple months ago, and he was fine” (meaning I just want to make my statement but will not allow you a rebuttal). And then:I've met [Harris] a few times, mostly in the context of conversations about foreign policy and about Russia and Ukraine and other things. And she's an intelligent conversationalist. … I was impressed with her. And these are way off-the-record conversations... And I was always more impressed with how she was off the record. And then I would sometimes see her in public. And I thought, she seems very stiff and nervous. … You'd like her if you met her in real life.Translation of both of these excerpts: “You plebes who aren't insiders just don't understand, but trust me — the connected insider — instead of your lying eyes.”Another adds:I think for the next few months, you're going to have to push people like Anne Applebaum to be more open to criticizing the Biden-Harris record. She's a smart person with important things to say, but she clearly dared not criticize the current administration, lest she be seen as helping Trump. And another:She says, unironically, that autocrats rig court systems with exotic new lawfare to attack their political enemies to seize or cling to power. I wonder what that makes Alvin Bragg and Merrick Garland.This Dishhead listened to the episode with his teenage son:The notion that Trump supporters want a dictator is beyond ridiculous. They are among the most individualistic and freedom-loving people in America. They are the Jacksonians, the Scots-Irish heart of this country. They are ornery as hell, and if Trump tried to force them into anything, he'd have another thing coming.  Just look how he tried to get them to take “his” vaccine. That didn't work out so well, did it? The truth is, they view people like Anne as the ones who are taking away their rights and freedoms through their absolute dominance of the media and all cultural institutions. Now maybe Trump will deliver them from that and maybe he won't, but that is what they are seeking — not a dictator, but someone who will break the hideous grip that the liberal elite has on the culture.My son is 18 years old and was also listening to the episode. He is highly engaged in national and world affairs, and he also thought Anne was way off track. He's already announced to his mother (much to her chagrin) that he will be casting his first vote for Trump. And get this: he's going to Oberlin College this fall. I can assure you he's not looking for a dictator. He's looking to say “eff you” to a system that has no use for upper-class, normal white boys like him. The elites hate him and his friends.But I'm glad you have a diversity of views on the Dishcast. It really is the best. I look forward to listening to it every week.I can't back Trump, but I do think your son is onto something. On a few other episodes:Lionel Shriver — I love her! I wished you'd talked more about her novel, Mania. It's not perfect, but it's good.On the Stephen Fry pod, I was resistant! He's irritated me at times. But I loved it when you two started doing Larkin! I shouldn't admit this, but “Aubade” could be my autobiography. I think one or both of you misinterpret “Church Going.” Larkin doesn't wish he had faith. I don't think that's relevant to him. Fry talked about how he liked everything about Anglicanism except for the detail about God (and I always suspect that for Anglicans, God is a somewhat troubling detail). I'm probably just guessing, but I don't think that's Larkin. Larkin didn't wish he had faith. He was elegiac about the past in which there was faith. I think you'll see this sensibility in “An Arundel Tomb.”Agreed. Another on Shriver:She seems to think that “liberals” are mistaken in believing that everyone can be equal, but I think she is mistaken in thinking that is what they believe — at least those I know. Liberals do think that 1) expectations play a role in what people achieve; and 2) given the right circumstances, many people find they can achieve more than was expected. Low expectations do lead to low outcomes (and yes, there is research to support that statement). Does that mean everyone can do anything they wish? No. Neither you nor I will ever be a concert pianist, but let us not condemn everyone to the garbage heap based on false expectations.Thanks as always for your provocative discussions.Here's a guest rec:Musa Al Gharbi, a sociologist at Stony Brook, has written for Compact, American Affairs, and The Liberal Patriot. His forthcoming book, We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite, draws on Pierre Bourdieu's notions of cultural capital to analyze the ascendant symbolic capitalists — those who work in law, technology, nonprofits, academia, journalism and media, finance, civil service and the like — and how the ideology known as “wokeness” exists to entrench economic inequality and preserve the hegemony of this class. I have preordered the book, and it should be a timely read for an election in which class (education), not race, has become the preeminent dividing line in our politics.Here's a guest rec with pecs:I have a recommendation that may sound bonkers, but hear me out: Alan Ritchson, the actor whose career has taken off thanks to playing Jack Reacher on Reacher.The fact that he's really, really, really ridiculously good-looking is the least interesting thing about him. I'd love to hear a conversation between you and him for a few reasons. First, he's bipolar and speaks openly about it. Second, he started taking testosterone supplements after his body broke down from working out for Reacher, and he speaks openly about that too. Third, he's a devout evangelical Christian who speaks openly about his faith — and about his disgust with Christian nationalism and the hijacking of Christianity by many Trump supporters. Fourth, he posted what read to me as a thoughtful, sane critique of bad cops, thereby angering certain denizens of the Very Online Right. Thus, he could speak to a number of major Dishcast themes: mental illness, masculinity, and Christianity. To me, he manages to come across as a guy's guy whose comments on political matters sound like the result of actual reflection, rather than reflexively following a progressive script, which is how most celebrities come across. He's articulate, and the way he's navigating this cultural and political moment is fascinating. And if you do snag him, you should supplement the audio with video.Haha. But seriously, we're trying to keep the podcast fresh and this is a great out-of-the-box recommendation. Next up, the dissents over my views on Harris continue from the main page. A reader writes:I have no particular attachment to Kamala Harris, and share some of your concerns, but your latest column reads more like a Fox News hit piece than a real assessment. The main problem is that you seem to be judging Harris almost exclusively on the basis of statements she made in 2020, at the height of the Democrats' woke mania because of George Floyd. Do you not remember that she was destroyed in the primary because she was a prosecutor, and was to the right of almost everyone else in the primary, except for Biden and Sanders? That's why she lost: she wasn't woke enough. So as VP, of course she pivoted to shore up her appeal to the base, like any good politician would. It's terribly unfortunate that she had to tack hard left precisely as the country was moving back to the center and rejecting wokism, but that doesn't mean she's the “wokest candidate,” as you say. It just means she's a politician.My criticism also extended to her management and campaigning skills in the past. And look: I don't think it's fair to compare my attempt to review the evidence of her record with a Fox News hit-piece. It's important to understand her vulnerabilities as well as he core ideas, if she has any. This next reader thinks she is off to a good, non-woke start:I agree with your criticisms of Harris, at least some of them. We need to have stronger border enforcement, we can't have riots in cities, and racism is real but DEI excesses are also bad. And it's troubling that she has a history of being a bad boss. I can only hope that she has learned from her mistakes. But I take heart from her campaign speech in Wisconsin: she said not a word about DEI, nothing about “vote for me to show that you're not sexist/racist, because I'm a woman of color,” and not much about “Trump is a threat to democracy.” It was all, “I have experience dealing with sleazy crooks and sex offenders like Trump, and I want to help middle-class Americans and protect health care and a woman's right to choose.” Sounds like a popular message!You also say, “She is not a serious person.” Bro, have you *seen* the other party's candidate?

主播：Anne（中国）+ 梅莉（法国） 歌曲 ：（开场）You are so Sunshine（结尾）SimpleGifts过年了，大家免不了要送礼物，送的礼物最好have positive and well wishingconnotations（有积极美好的含义），不要送寓意不好的。在国外送礼物同样也要注意，有一些礼物千万不能送。今天，我们就来聊一聊，在国外送礼物必须要避开的“雷”。01. 在韩国不能送鞋It is perceived negatively if you gift shoes. 如果你送的礼物是鞋子，会被认为不吉利。因为在韩国，鞋子代表“出轨”。Koreans believe that receiving shows as a gift will kill therelationship. 韩国人相信，接受鞋子礼物会破坏他们的感情。在亲密关系中，收到鞋子的人会“run away”from their significant other（离开另一半）。02. 在阿根廷不能送钱包If you are gifting a wallet you need to make sure you are putting somemoney inside.要送钱包的话，里面要放上钱。Gifting an empty wallet is very rude. 送空钱包是很不礼貌的。如果要送钱包的话，至少要在里面放上1美元。03. 在法国不能送扫把如果你送别人cleaning appliances（清洁用具）比如说broomsticks or vacuum cleaners（扫把或吸尘器），会让人觉得很奇怪。因为这样会让人觉得his/her house is dirty，需要打扫。主播梅莉开玩笑说，如果你送的是a pricy Dyson vacuum（价格昂贵的戴森吸尘器），那就另当别论了，人们不会see it negatively，hahaha~。04. 在意大利不能送手帕It is not great to gift handkerchiefs（手帕）。Because they are used to wipe away tears whenyou go see your closed ones who have passed away（因为手帕通常是当亲友去世的时候，被用来擦眼泪）。05. 在英国不能送百合In England lilies actually represent death. 因为在英国百合象征着死亡。It has the same connotation as the number 13. 百合和数字13在英国有着同样不好的寓意。• connotation / ˌkɑːnəˈteɪʃ(ə)n /n.隐含意义06. 在德国不能送有黑猫或者喜鹊图案的东西In Germany, it is better to not give gifts that have blackcats（黑猫） or magpies（喜鹊）. Because they think that these two animals are related towitches and pickpocket（这两种动物分别是女巫和小偷的化身） which brings misfortune（带来不幸）。Witches usually have blackcats as their pets (女巫通常会有黑猫作为宠物)。07. 在印度不能送牛皮制品In India, it is important to note tonot give gifts that are made of leather(牛皮制品）.Because cows are holy so it is important to keep this in mind.印度宗教把牛当做“圣兽”，是绝对不能侵犯的。08. 在俄罗斯不能送钱In Russia it is important to not give money as gifts to people.因为在他们眼里，送钱是a bit awkward and embarrassing（令人尴尬的），因为这代表着施舍和侮辱，带有贬低意味。所以，有没有可能，俄罗斯人收不到红包09. 在日本不能送梳子In Japan you shouldn't gift combs, for combing hair.因为在日语里，the pronunciation of theword is the name as the word death（“梳子”和“死亡”同音）。你还知道哪些不能送的礼物？欢迎大家评论区留言补充。

Get ready to unravel the intricate world of awards in business! We promise, you'll walk away with a fresh perspective on the role and impact of awards in business - the good, the bad, and the downright stressful. We kick off our lively discussion by peeling back the glitzy curtain to expose the challenges and rewards of organizing an awards ceremony. From the high stakes of selecting winners to the joyous recognition of one's hard work, it's a rollercoaster journey. We open up about our own awards experiences and how it can often feel like a numbers game. Plus, we'll delve into the emotional side too, sharing some insights on how to handle not winning or being nominated, and why it's important to savor any recognition you do receive. 0:00:01 - Announcer It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VEO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Ann Ganguzza.  0:00:20 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the VEO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with the lovely Lau Lapides. Hey everyone. Hey Lau.  0:00:31 - Lau Hey, beautiful, beautiful, right back at ya.  0:00:34 - Anne How are you today?  0:00:36 - Lau Oh, I'm fabulous. I feel like this is going to be a very rewarding show, or maybe a rewarding show oh oh hey. See what I did.  0:00:45 - Anne I see what you did there. It's funny Lau. We just attended an award ceremony and there's a lot of different opinions out there on do we like awards, do we not like awards? Maybe we should have a talk about that Lau. What do you think I?  0:00:58 - Lau love it. I haven't heard anyone really talk about discussing awards like the process, not just the winning of the award, but also like what goes into the entire process. It's really a huge thing. Sometimes takes six months or a year to prep that kind of thing. Yeah.  0:01:16 - Anne Well, I will tell you that. First of all, I guess bosses out there we want to hear how you feel about awards too. I mean, there's so much discussion happening out there, oh gosh, on the Facebook groups and in social media about awards, and are they worth it? Because some awards cost money to enter, some awards don't. In our industry right now, I know of two distinct award shows that go on. However, they are not the only awards that you can certainly enter if you feel the desire to do that.  Lau. I have been a supporter of award shows since the beginning. However, there are many pros and there are many cons to it. Pros is that if you win an award, it's validation. Sometimes it's so difficult to be validated while we sit here in our studios all by ourselves and we don't get a lot of feedback all the time. Gosh, I'm always telling my corporate students we just want to be loved. When you work for a company and you feel underappreciated, I mean, gosh, that's really all we long for is to be loved. I think awards can be a verification of that. But then again, sometimes they may not be, because maybe you didn't win, and then that enters in a whole new mental aspect of. Oh my gosh, I wasn't good enough to win this award. Why did I not win this award? Somebody else is better than me. What are your thoughts about that Lau?  0:02:42 - Lau I think that when you go into this kind of a process, if you're entering into it and really submitting yourself for it intentionally, you have to set your mindset and your psychology to the fact that it is competitive. It is a competition. You may or may not feel like it is, but it really is. It should be based on merit. It should be based on your progress, your process and your product. And sometimes we only have so much control over that right. We manage it. We only have so much control right, that's the big thing.  0:03:16 - Anne And I just said it should be based on merit, and, right there, we could probably spend an entire podcast talking about that. It should be based on merit. However, there is the other side of the coin where, yes, it should be based on merit, but then you have the people who judge the awards right, and we don't always know, first of all, who those people are. Sometimes we do. I'm not a big fan of knowing who judges are. I feel like maybe there's too much possibility for people to maybe try to talk to the judges and influence them, so I'd rather not have judges be known. And then you have to really think about what are the judges qualifications? Because within voice over, we have so many different categories right, and so many different categories of awards.  If you're going to, I would say, present these categories of awards, I think you want to have very vetted judges right Judging the entries. And I am not sure, since we don't know who the judges are all the time, or even if we do know who the judges are, what is the criteria for me, a demo award versus a performance award, and in all different genres, I think it's super important that the people judging those are very specialized in those genres or in that category. So if you're judging animation, I would hope that judges are all experienced either working in animation or doing animation day in, day out and they really know the industry, and so I really would hope that that's the case. I don't know Lau if that's the case with all the judges, because, again, we don't always know who the judges are and we don't know what their credentials are.  0:04:50 - Lau Right, and I can say just from my personal point of view that it's not always the case.  Because at times I've been asked to judge categories which I feel like I can judge them. I can judge them, but am I way off base? No, I don't think so. I think there's a general industry knowledge that you have for years in the industry, but is it my absolute forte? No, not always it's not my forte. We try to get that matching process, but sometimes it's a numbers game, just like the competitors. It's like do we have enough judges? Do we have enough judges in a particular category? Are we getting them in time? Can they get the work done?  0:05:24 - Anne That's right in time, and that's the other thing. I mean, my goodness, judging some of these awards, because I have been a judge myself. First of all, when there's a lot of categories and a lot of entries, who, it becomes like a casting process and right then, and there bosses. I want that to tell you one thing. That means that sometimes right and I'm not going to speak for myself, but sometimes if you've asked a busy person to be a judge and then they have to listen to a thousand entries, they're probably only going to get the first part of your entry listened to before they have to continue on.  So that is something to consider. I mean, if there's a nuance or an acting moment that is at the end of your performance, maybe you want to try to create that clip so that all that great stuff is right at the beginning, because it is a job. It can be a lengthy and timely job, and if judges are not given an appropriate amount of time to do that, or they don't have a lot of time to do that, and they think like, yeah, I can judge that, and then all of a sudden it becomes overwhelming, well, then you get, the judging process becomes a little skewed to be quite honest because either I don't have time or I've heard too many entries.  I'm now overwhelmed. But yeah, there's so many things that go into it, my goodness. And then are the entries anonymous. We hope they are right, because we don't want the judges to be influenced by names or celebrity or that type of thing. But our voice is our product, right? So sometimes I'll tell you what it's hard to hide, because I know a lot of voices out there and I can pick them out like this I would agree.  0:07:01 - Lau And you know this last time, one of the last ones, you and I judged we were under an NDA, which I actually really appreciated I did too Right. It took a lot of stress, because not that I would be necessarily blabbing about that, I wouldn't but it reminded my brain like, separate it, compartmentalize it, because you and I we were a lot of hats, you know casting an agent and coach, and this and that, and so there is sometimes that one or two talent that we know. We do know them, and then could we recuse ourselves?  Sometimes we can sometimes we can't, because they can't move us into another category. So it's great to have that compartmentalization and that relaxation to know, okay, if there is someone in front of me that I know that's a client or a client of a friend of mine, that I am separating that from this hat, that I'm wearing, and then I'm not going to talk about that. I'm not going to speak about that and I have.  I wonder what you think about this. And I had mixed feelings. I have mixed feelings about the awards being given and then the judge's names coming out. It sort of makes me feel like a jury that all of a sudden is being. You hear the names of the jury who's on a criminal case. It makes me feel uncomfortable. It's like why do I need to know that information? What do you think about that?  0:08:21 - Anne That's very interesting and I appreciate that you brought that up because, as I mentioned, I always have been a fan of keeping anonymous I mean for the longest time and this isn't anything that's being judged. For example, I have done the VO Peeps scholarships for gosh 12 years already and when we judge those entries I don't disclose the names of the judges and I don't even disclose the names of the judges after the fact. Because again, what if I want to use those judges, maybe again, and I don't want to have anybody influenced and I don't want the judges, I feel like I don't need credit If I'm a judge. I don't need credit in being a judge. I just want to be able to judge fairly. And I happen to agree with you.  I don't think that judges' names should ever be disclosed really, and I'm not quite sure why the reason is and it might just be that they want to be thanked properly, but it's like when I give a donation, I don't always have to put my name on that. You know it can be an anonymous donation because I did it out of the goodness of my heart. If I'm judging something, I want it to just be the most fair that it can possibly be.  0:09:24 - Lau I'm glad you brought that up, Because when I see that at a ceremony someone who's kind enough to give money towards a scholarship or towards an award. I kind of feel bad for them Because I'm like as much as you are. Oh aren't they wonderful. They don't always want that recognition. They don't always feel comfortable knowing that. It's well-known knowledge that anyone who wins a lottery like they have to be very careful about releasing their name, because then they become a target and people go after them.  So you have to wonder if you're in an award ceremony, could you then become some sort of target that people are either trying to embellish themselves?  0:10:01 - Anne to you or they're trying to knock you down, similar to being an agent Lau. I'm just saying I know nothing about that.  0:10:09 - Lau It's so true.  0:10:10 - Anne It's like they're prostrate themselves to you day and night right.  0:10:13 - Lau I'm not one to really appreciate that. Honestly, I'm very private in that way. Like, if I'm going to give a bunch of money, I'd rather it not have my name in there. But that's just me. Other people do want that recognition. That's fine. That's totally fine.  0:10:28 - Anne I'm going to say I'm not here to shame anybody saying if you put your name on a donation that it's shameful.  I just think there are times when I don't think it's necessary and sometimes, yeah, I mean I'll put my name on a donation if I can add a note to it, to the recipient in wishing them good will, that kind of a thing, and that will be a reason for that.  But I think La one thing I want to really make a point of about awards is when you enter awards. Having experienced both sides of it being a judge and then also entering into awards myself I think you just have to really be made of Teflon number one, because the process is very subjective, right, and we're starting to kind of address all the things that go into the awards submitting and then the judging process and if you know who the judges are, are they qualified and that process. But I think one thing I want to stress to the bosses out there is please do not ever belittle yourself If you do not win an award or if you don't get nominated for an award. I think that, especially in our business, because it's very much a personal part of us, it's our voice, right, it is so personal and if you ever don't feel as though we've succeeded, it can be really, really damaging to our psyche.  0:11:44 - Lau I would agree, I would agree. Do not give a ton of weight to that process. And it's very funny, it's almost like auditioning.  It's like don't give a ton of weight to anyone audition brush it off and leave and go on to the next thing. But yet, when you're actually auditioning, give it the 100% it deserves, completely, commit to it completely, invest in it, completely, appreciate it. So, if you're awarded something or nominated, completely be present, be appreciative, love the moments, enjoy your community, love the attention. But then when you walk away, I really do believe you have the award. You're not going to forget about the award, you're going to utilize it as well in your marketing.  0:12:23 - Anne Oh, absolutely, but don't hang your hat on it. That's another positive.  0:12:27 - Lau Absolutely, don't hang your hat on it Like I'm the best, I'm the expert, I'm finished. No, it's a recognition that your work is at an industry standard that people want to appreciate, but there's a lot more to go.  0:12:40 - Anne Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that it's wonderful to get an award and it's wonderful to get nominated. I mean, if I want to make a distinction between being nominated and winning an award, I feel that the nomination is an award in and of itself because, listen to this award nominated, award winning, I mean honestly, they still start with award and so if you're going to use that to market, I mean gosh, just to be like sometimes narrowed down and be put on the shortlist, you can be proud of that to be nominated, and I really, really do believe that that can be celebrated as a win. And again, even if you're not nominated, understand that your work has value, you have worth, you have value and just because you didn't get the nomination or get a win doesn't mean that you are any less of a professional or accomplished and successful individual. I agree totally agree.  0:13:30 - Lau I'd love to talk, too, about the length of awards ceremonies. I think that that is either thought about or it's not thought about, maybe it's thought about, maybe it's not thought about, but they could run three, four hours in length, sometimes Absolutely, and I wonder how the audience feels about going through that kind of process and sitting through that process. We did an awards not long ago, you and I, where we literally sat in a chair for three hours.  There was no break. There was no moment to take a breath, walk around, nothing, and I thought that that was a very strange choice on the part of the organizers to keep people in a seat for that length of time and expect that focus to really stay there and be there late at night. What do you think about that?  0:14:20 - Anne I'm just thinking about all the awards ceremonies that we've become accustomed to on television. If you watch the Emmys or the Golden Globes, and there's always either food or drink at the table. Number one that helps If you're going to have to be planted or seated in an audience. I think that that works. And what if you have to leave to use the restroom right?  And then they announce your award. Hopefully you want to have like a series of events and when are they going to announce this category? I happen to know a very good friend of mine who was caught in the bathroom when they won and, yeah, it was not able to come to the stage and give their acceptance speech. But I think that sometimes sitting through the awards ceremony can be laborious if there's not any kind of entertainment kind of interspersed in there and or some sort of a schedule of events. And I know that that's difficult and sometimes they want to keep it a surprise for the people, they want to keep people in their seats. But yeah, it can get tiring. I will say that my tushy got a little bit sore and I've been to longer ones Okay, I have been to longer ones than the one that you and I were at, which we're really excruciating just because of the length and not all categories were called up to the stage.  0:15:30 - Lau So no, no, they need to sell cushions like they do it at the stadiums.  0:15:34 - Lau Buy a cushion.  0:15:36 - Lau you have to sit on the cushion and that would make a lot of sense, though I did think of a shortcut because I'm an organizer myself events, and one of the shortcuts I don't think anyone would ever do, but I think makes total sense. There were a handful of people at a few of the ceremonies that you and I intended that one more than one award One in particular. I can remember he won three. Okay, lovely, good for him. Why did they spread that out and why did he need to come up three times, have three spills in which he ran out of things to say? He was telling jokes by the end of it. Why not house those categories One, two, three. They have a sense. Maybe he's gonna win, maybe.  0:16:16 - Lau I don't know I mean they're preparing?  0:16:18 - Anne No, I don't know who's preparing the envelopes, remember they?  0:16:20 - Lau well, yeah, they're preparing the envelopes.  0:16:22 - Anne It's under lock and key right. So nobody knows. So that's theoretically. Somebody knows.  0:16:27 - Lau That's theoretically. Somebody knows Theoretically?  0:16:28 - Anne somebody knows. But again, but then I don't think Lau you'd want the audience to expect right that the next category he would be the winner as well. So there'd be no right. No, but if you think about it that way, right, if they know he won in multiple categories and then they called the second category once they did a series of right, the audience would expect it so. I don't think you can do it that way, and I think he handled it well.  0:16:50 - Lau Personally, listen, I think theoretically, it's true, but you and I know most of the audience was dying to get out and get a hamburger. You know what I mean. Like if I could get some french fries and cut this a little bit shorter, I'm all over the nuggets. You know what I mean. Like I'm ready to go. I don't need it to be that extra hour.  0:17:07 - Anne Well, I think that it could be maybe addressed at the amount of categories, maybe. Maybe, but then they wanna make sure that they're covering everybody, so I can see where organizers have a big job here.  0:17:19 - Lau Yeah it's tough, you know, there's a lot.  0:17:20 - Anne You know everybody wants to be represented. As a matter of fact, I am like all for let's have the best medical narration demo. I want that because you know that's something that I do and that's something I would love to submit for, and there's no category anywhere for that, so I can see where they have to.  0:17:37 - Lau Of course it's entertainment as well, so they have to pad the whole evening with different kinds of entertainment and videos and jokes, and that pads it with another hour or another hour and a half. So I get that, but I totally get that.  0:17:52 - Anne I'm gonna say what do you say Lau about? Like cause, I'm okay with the words. I'm okay with the words because over the years I've learned a little bit more about how they work. And I've won, I've lost, I've not been nominated. I've been nominated. I've been through it all myself, the emotional swing that it can cause, right. And I'm still okay with the words because I can understand them for what they are.  And so, bosses, I hope that this helps you to just kind of get a better grip on what they are and not that it determine your value at all. If you choose not to enter or not support award service, that's entirely fine. You can still be a boss, absolutely. But I don't think that this kind of back and forth war that we have about awards, I think it gets a little bit divided and for not really a good reason. I don't think. If you want to enter, go ahead and enter and don't shame people who enter awards. I really am a big fan of that. I mean I don't love negative talk on social media for people who enter awards or get awards or that kind of a thing.  0:18:54 - Lau I am so with you on that. And that would extend too to people who do not come to the awards, who for many reasons, can't, won't or don't want to come to the awards. I think that's fine. I mean, if I'm being nominated, I'll go because I'm very honored and I'll buy the dress and I'll do the thing and I'll enjoy it. But there are others that say no, it's not my scene or I can't afford it.  0:19:18 - Anne Yeah, oh yeah, I don't want to because I'm in Florida. It can get expensive. I mean, you're talking about, typically, people like to dress for these things. So you're talking airfare, maybe, travel expenses, hotel expenses, dress expenses or suit? Yeah, absolutely, and for me, I had makeup and hair, but I always liked to have an excuse to have it make up and hair.  0:19:40 - Lau But You're so schmelzy that way. Well for me.  0:19:44 - Anne I'm telling you, for me it's a little spa day.  I mean, if somebody can just handle that for me I can think about like what I have to do I always talk about when I present. I like to have hair and makeup because then I don't have to worry about those things, that I can concentrate on my presentation. So while I'm somebody who's doing my hair, I am like doing notes for presentations. For me it's just an investment, but it can be very expensive. Awards can be very expensive and sometimes you have to buy the award after the fact and that is also expensive. So there's a lot of, I think, pros to it but yet a lot of cons, and I don't want you bosses out there to feel any less than worthy or valuable just because you do or don't enter an award show.  0:20:26 - Lau I'm with you on that Ann and. I would say no matter how you take part, I would urge people to take part in some way, whether you're a witness or you're submitting or you're just congratulating someone who won and just support the community in any way that's best and comfortable for you because it is ultimately, I would imagine, there for the people and for the community and for the recognition and we don't want to completely lose that. We want to preserve that, you know. However, you take part.  0:20:57 - Anne And also I wanna just say, unless you're organizing an award event, I think if you could maybe steer clear of criticism. I just I mean, I just I think that if people criticize people who hold events and they say, well, it's all about the money, or they try to figure out, oh, how many people times how much the cost of a ticket, wow, they're making a lot of money. And then they make assumptions on the fact that, oh, they're just doing that because they're greedy or whatever reason you have. I think, honestly, just having a husband who does events and myself I've done events live- YouTube events like.  I think, anybody that can sit back behind a keyboard and criticize about an event if they've not organized one themselves, especially one that's in a hotel, where you have to pay probably a big chunk of fees to a hotel for food, for the space. Just to do that is not a cheap thing at all. And so what event organizers charge for their event? I mean, I just steer clear of any kind of criticism because I know how expensive it can be very expensive, Very, especially in this day and age.  0:22:05 - Lau it's the most expensive it's ever been.  0:22:07 - Anne Oh yeah, absolutely so have a little mercy and understanding on event organizations.  0:22:11 - Lau And then the other thing too and I wanted to say not just about awards, but we're talking about awards right now is like don't look the gift horse in the mouth in regards to, like, the people who organize a range direct all of that deserve the profit they make oftentimes.  0:22:29 - Anne Oh, absolutely, because they are going through such stress.  0:22:33 - Lau It's beyond a full-time job. No one realizes that unless they're involved with that kind of work.  0:22:38 - Anne Well, my husband does it as a full-time job, I mean, and it's crazy because even people that he works with don't understand what it takes to prepare for an event.  0:22:46 - Lau It is crazy, but I love that you said please have compassion, I'm backing you up on that.  0:22:51 - Anne I'm backing you up on that, because it's not easy to do something like that.  But yet it seems so easy for us to sit behind our keyboards and just make assumptions. And I think yeah, and so don't make assumptions about, I think, awards, events, the event organizers or even the judges, or even if you agree or don't agree with awards. I really feel like just one of my favorite sayings is to mind your own business, and I don't mean that in a mom way, I mean that my VO business is my business. And if I feel that maybe entering an award competition will maybe help my marketing, I'm going to do it and I don't want to be criticized for that or looked upon badly for that. But again, and I will try not to cry if I don't win, because I think anybody that knows me knows how darn competitive I am- Ooh, I am competitive, you are, I've got a box of tissues for you.  Thank you, so you don't need to worry about that at all. See the Lau.  0:23:41 - Lau that's why I want you at my side at all at all times I'm ready with a tissue, a handkerchief whatever, a shoulder and a turkey sandwich and a turkey sandwich at all costs A turkey sandwich, and that's what support is like.  0:23:55 - Anne I love that, that kind of support. Right, we need to lift each other up, and so, if awards are your thing, support the people in the community, like Lau supports me with a turkey sandwich and a box of tissues. I love that right, it's so true, it's so true. And Lau. And if I can get you a turkey sandwich at any time, I will do so, and that's why I love you back because we're all about getting of the turkey sandwich.  0:24:23 - Lau It's not even Thanksgiving, that's the best part.  0:24:25 - Anne Bosses, you might be wondering what are they talking about? Well, at one of the last conferences, it happened to be late at night and I had been presenting and had gotten out of like multiple panels and X sessions or whatever it was, and by the time I got to the restaurant to eat they had closed. It was like after 10 o'clock and everything had shut down and I was starving. I literally was like I need something and there was no door dash that could be quick, and so Lau to the rescue. Who actually went and secured me a turkey sandwich that magically appeared from behind the desk Late at night.  0:25:05 - Lau Behind the front desk. Yes, I was like the Ooma Thurman in the Kill Bill series. I just jumped over the desk, I tackled the woman behind there and I said how could you not be?  0:25:17 - Anne open and it was fresh and I ravaged that turkey sandwich. I did, I literally did, and it was, the bread was flying, the turkey was in my mouth and I ate it like a caveman. I mean literally, it was beyond Quentin Tarantino stuff. I didn't even have utilities to eat it with. I ate it with my hands, I know I didn't even have a sword.  0:25:35 - Lau I just used the verbal sword play of my mouth and my words.  0:25:39 - Anne But that's the story of the turkey sandwich and Lau how she came to save me. Okay, so everybody needs a Lau, right, Everybody needs a Lau on their side.  0:25:47 - Lau So, Lau.  0:25:48 - Anne I mean, what a great conversation. I mean, I hope bosses, you guys always know your value, whether you are winning awards or not. Winning awards, you guys, you are gifts and awards in our hearts, and so make sure that you feel that way about yourself and, of course, others in the industry, and let's lift each other up. So I love it.  0:26:08 - Lau We love you if you win, and we love you even more if you don't win, because it's all about your process. There you go.  0:26:15 - Anne There you go, and, speaking of awards and making a difference, you guys can use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Just like Lau gives me turkey sandwiches, so you guys visit 100voiceswhocareorg to commit and big shout out to IPDTL, our favorite way to connect Bosses. You, too, can find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week, guys, and we'll see you next week. Bye.  0:26:47 - Lau Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host and Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  0:27:17 - Anne This time a little more conversational. I'll give something I actually give something really, really conversational once and they're like oh yeah, give me a little more conversation and I'll give it completely conversational. They'll be like oh Hmm, how about a little more energy? And you know, when they ask for more energy, that usually means they're looking for a little more cell, yeah, if you're not anywhere near it, oh yeah maybe a little more smile, a little more smile, a little more smile, a little more energy that gives you the cell back.  Transcribed by https://podium.page

The stage is set, the mic is on, and the cue is yours. In this episode, stand-up comic and voice actor Tom Sawyer shares his golden nuggets for aspiring voice talents hoping to benefit from the power of comedy. From the importance of having fun in the booth to taking a well-deserved break, and the power of belief in oneself, Tom is a reservoir of invaluable insights. We talk about standing out in a sea of talents, catching the ears of the right casting person, and the art of continuous learning. But remember, feedback is the breakfast of champions, and as Tom says, it's all about enhancing your performance. Get ready, it's showtime! About Tom   Tom Sawyer ran lengendary San Francisco comedy club, Cobb's for over 30 years. After stepping away from the comedy business, Tom was encouraged to explore voice acting by after famed comedian and voice actor Carlos Alazraqui (Rocco's Modern World, the Taco Bell Chihuahua) who knew Tom was an excellent celebrity impersonator. Tom signed with JE Talent in San Francisco and Aperture Talent in Los Angeles in 2017, and the rest is history. https://kitcaster.com/tom-sawyer/ 0:00:01 - Announcer It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Ann Gangusa.  0:00:20 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza and today I am super excited to be here with very special guest actor, comedian, entrepreneur oh my God, the list goes on Tom Sawyer. Tom ran the legendary San Francisco Comedy Club Cubs for over 30 years booking legendary greats, and this list just goes on and on, but I'll give you just a few of them Jerry Seinfeld, dana Carvey, Bob Saget, Jim Carrey, Rita Rudner, Joe Rogan, Sarah Silverman and the list just goes on. He stayed on as a booker until 2012 and then ultimately stepped away from the comedy business. After that, he was encouraged to explore voice acting by famed comedian and voice actor Carlos Ellsrocki, a good friend of his. He signed on with JE Talent in San Francisco and Aperture Talent in LA in 2017, and the rest, they say, is history.  But boy, we've got a lot of history I'd like to talk to you about, tom. Thank you so much for joining us and welcome. Thank you for having me. Oh, it's my pleasure. So, gosh, there's so many things I want to start with. I mean the first tell. You have such a large history of comedy, so, of course, I'm sure a very common question you get asked is were you a funny kid, or have you always loved comedy? What is it that drew you to comedy?  0:01:44 - Tom Well, yeah, I was the kid in the back of the class making all the other kids laugh, so that was where I started and I always did impressions. So when I was a kid I was doing Don Adams from Get Smart and Ed Sullivan and Richard Nixon and you know, it's probably a little weird seeing an eight-year-old doing Richard Nixon but that's what I was doing. When I was very young I realized I could do voices and never stopped and that's what kind of led me to voiceover when I got out of the comedy club business.  0:02:15 - Anne But boy, there was a long history of being in the comedy business. I label you as entrepreneur 20 times over because I think just following that passion of yours and then ultimately opening up a club that literally was just famed and just housing some of the comedy greats. Tell me a little bit about that history. I mean, that is just so, so fun and impressive.  0:02:36 - Tom Yeah, actually, I went to San Francisco to become a stand-up comic and there were all these clubs, the Punchline and the Holy City Zoo and the other cafe. They were very packed all the time and getting stage time there was next to impossible. Or you'd get on at one o'clock in the morning in front of a very tired, very small, very drunk audience. And then there was this little.  0:02:55 - Anne Sometimes that helps, I'm not sure Mostly doesn't, oh okay.  0:03:00 - Tom But there was this little club in the Marina District in San Francisco called Cobb's Pub and they were trying to do comedy there and there was no audience, but there was stage time. You could get on stage there. In fact, sometimes you couldn't get off stage because there was no one there to take over, so you had to stretch, stretch and that was terrifying sometimes. Especially if you're the third or fourth comic going, hey, where are you from? And the audience goes we all know where we're from, so stop asking.  0:03:29 - Anne That's so funny. I just wanted to say that a lot of my actor friends I feel like being on that comedy stage is like a rite of passage almost, and it's probably I would think one of the toughest things to do is to stand on stage like that and try to make people laugh. I mean, that's just to me it's comedy without a net. Yeah, exactly.  0:03:48 - Tom And the thing is it's like you're stuck there, literally. You have an allotted time that you have to perform and they give you 10 minutes. You have to do 10 minutes, doesn't matter if it's horrible right from the word jump, you're on stage for those 10 minutes. That's the time you have to do and that's one of the things you learn right away is like if you get on stage early.  you're not going to get back on stage. So you have to go through the rite of passage of bombing, and I've seen comics bomb from Paula Poundstone, kevin Meany, kevin Nealon, the list goes on and on. Every comic has bombed. But even later on you get in front of an audience that just doesn't dig you.  0:04:27 - Anne And again, nowhere to go. You can't run off the stage.  0:04:31 - Tom You're mean, I get that.  0:04:38 - Anne And it's funny because I literally I just went to a comedy club a couple of weeks ago and I was thinking about that, like what do you do? I mean, they are there until the next comedian is called on stage. And it feels interesting as being a part of the audience, because a lot of times I think, as the audience, you are part of maybe not part of the act, but it's very interactive, it's very back and forth and engaging because, of course, you're trying to make us laugh.  0:05:02 - Tom Yeah, you have to communicate to the audience without really engaging the audience, because you're the boss on stage, you're kind of like the crowd master and you're crowd control and entertainment at the same time. And because comedy, some people feel like, oh, I'm going to be as funny as the comic.  0:05:22 - Anne And that's when things get really sideways.  0:05:24 - Tom You're there to be entertained. Sit back, relax and leave the talking or the driving to the person with the microphone.  So you got some stage time on Cobbs and and then I realized that I just kept seeing these shows that weren't very good. The guy who was booking the club at the time wasn't doing a great job, and I was a big fan of stand up as well. So I started thinking about what I would do instead, and then I started telling the owner at the time first owner of Cobbs. I was telling him you know, here's what I would do differently, and then I could tell him at the beginning of the show how the show was going to fail. And then he was started realizing that everything I was saying was happening and he went what do I get to lose? We're doing horrible business. And so he gave me the job of booking and from there I started getting the people I really, really like to perform and it started going great and we went from being like about 20% capacity to 90% capacity in about a year.  0:06:23 - Anne So let me ask you a question that, to me, is very interesting how do you get, at the time, the talents that you booked? I mean, they were big names. Were they big names then? And how did you get them to book? I mean, that's a skill, right? It's something that we do in our businesses every day, right? We've got to try to get clients to like us and to work with us. So how did you do that? Did you have a secret?  0:06:42 - Tom Yeah, my secret was I paid really well.  0:06:45 - Anne Okay, okay, that's a good piece.  0:06:48 - Tom My biggest competition, which was twice the size of our club. We were out paying that Because we decided that the most important thing was getting butts in the chairs and the only way to do that was having acts that actually brought an audience. So the only way to do that was to offer these guys more of an opportunity to make more money. So we would give them a percentage of the door and say, hey, the more people come to see you, the more you're gonna make. And because of that we had people that would call up and go, hey, I'm gonna be on the Tonight Show in six weeks with Johnny Carson, do you have anything open? And I would move stuff around and get them in there and then I would get a Tonight Show plug or a Letterman plug or Arsenio Hall. At the time and that was kind of my thing was I'm gonna pay everybody. Really well, so everybody could. Percentage of the door.  In the early days before all the big agencies came in, sure, and remember this was at a time where there were just like a couple agencies doing personal appearances for comedians. Comedians were pretty much on their own. They were doing their business themselves. So if I wanted Bob Sagan, I'd call Bob Sagan, so I get his number from another comic and everybody was kind of looking for each other and I would bring one comic in. They'd go, hey, you should book these guys. And I go, okay, great, and call them up. And they'd go, right, when can you give them me a date? And I'd give them a date. Plus, we flew people up and we put them up in the hotels. So we didn't personally make a ton of money. That wasn't my thing. My thing was having the best shows I could possibly have and making a name right.  And making a name for the club?  0:08:24 - Anne Absolutely, and that's interesting because, again, I like to talk about the entrepreneurial business side of what we do as creatives and freelancers, and there's a lot of thinking outside the box and also recognizing the value of the talent, that if you wanna put out great work, then you wanna hire a talent that's amazing and great and pay them fairly and absolutely. And so talk to me a little bit about the networking aspect. I mean, the cash is a good draw, but you also had to communicate effectively, I would say, to really book these talent.  0:08:58 - Tom Well, the thing that separated me from everybody else, besides being generous with the money that was brought in, was that I knew what they were going through, no matter what it was going on on stage. If they were dealing with a heckler, I'd gone through that as a comedian. If they were bombing, I knew that pain, so I could empathize with them, I could be their counselor, I could give them advice. I looked at it like I wasn't really a good comedian, and mainly that was because I wasn't true to who I am personally. So my mantra after that was be yourself.  0:09:32 - Anne I love that.  0:09:33 - Tom Yeah, that's who I wasn't. I was trying to fit in and have everybody like me and that really affected the quality of my stand up because I wasn't being true to me. So that was my mantra to everybody be yourself. Because nobody can take that away from you.  0:09:49 - Anne That's so interesting because I never ventured into comedy myself. However, I find that people find me the most funny when I am being my dorky self and I'm making mistakes and I'm just being oops, sorry, and I think in voiceover as well. I wanna talk more about that. I think it's all about being authentic and being yourself and that's really, I think, what connects you to people and engages you to people and endears you to people.  0:10:14 - Tom Yeah, I think it's really important when you get a job, and especially if it's somebody you want to get more bookings from play around, have fun. I mean, I booked a video game and the first thing we did we went through several of the lines I had to do and then we went through all those and I just did just the lines, basically no acting or anything like that and they went. Yep, that's about it. I went great, thank you.  0:10:33 - Anne Love it, love it, bye, bye.  0:10:35 - Tom So everybody started laughing. It loosens everybody up and that's really it's just. Don't be a pain on the ass. Realize that you're always learning. They're always learning. Everybody's a professional too, and so be courteous and nice and smart and be entertaining. You are the talent, so show some talent as a professional as well.  0:10:53 - Anne Show some talent. I love that. So talk about in the transition while booking talent. So you did that for a very long time, I mean 30 years, and so, wow, I mean, was there a point? I mean, were you just so busy for 30 years Did you think about voiceover? Was that a thought in your head or something that you would do, or you just were completely. You loved running the club and booking talent.  0:11:18 - Tom Prior to moving to San Francisco, I lived in Florida, lived in Sarasota, Florida, and I did a lot of theater there.  That's why, I fell in love with theater and acting. You know, I always thought like, oh, stand up might be a good gateway to getting into acting, but then I got into the business end of it. So I didn't really think about it until I got out and I didn't know what I was gonna do. And I was talking to Carlos and he said dude, you do so many voices and stuff. You'd be great at voice acting.  Cause I've always done impressions, never stopped doing impressions. In fact I would teach other people like Kevin Pollack or something, if they had an oppression and they couldn't figure it quite out. They were doing it but they weren't quite right. We'd kind of jam and help them get there, or they would help me get there and we'd all do our really weird outside the box impersonations. You'd have to spend five minutes explaining who that guy is Right right right.  0:12:07 - Anne So you can't do that one.  0:12:09 - Tom But for comics, we love doing those, especially impersonators, impressionists, we love doing those for other impersonators. It was kind of like our jazz moment, you know, where you get to jam behind the scenes with another musician.  0:12:20 - Anne Absolutely.  0:12:21 - Tom So Frank Calliendo, I had the club, and Dana Carvey, of course, was the master of the not perfect impression, but getting the perfect funny it didn't matter, that's what his genius is. Bye, you know, is finding the perfect funny to any voice. And then Tom Kenny played. The club started at Cobbs as well Again, the guy who did so many crazy voices. It was another inspiration for me to move there, and every once in a while I talked to him, cause I'll get a audition for something that I know is directing or in, so I go heads up and he's going dude.  I have nothing to do with casting, you know sometimes they cast people and I'm scratching my head. So yeah, but I'll put in a good word for you.  0:12:58 - Anne So Well, hey again, networking totally helps. Now comedy skill. I think comedy is a skill and art form. What are your thoughts on that?  0:13:07 - Tom I mean cause, oh, absolutely.  0:13:08 - Anne Yeah, it's not something that I can go on a stage and execute.  0:13:11 - Tom Yeah, it's like anything else I personally believe.  my philosophy is we all have a gift somewhere along the line. We might not be in a position ever to know what that gift is, but we all have a gift and sometimes there are people out there have more than a couple fair, but there's also people who just don't ever find theirs. And I think that the idea is you know to try to discover who you are and your strengths, weaknesses. Stay away from those weaknesses and hurdle towards your strengths, you know, and don't get locked up into one thing to always be on the road to discovery.  0:13:42 - Anne I guess I want to ask you first of all about once you got into voice acting and then was it like you were always wanting to book a certain genre because you've had lots of characters inside of you that wanted to come out? Or did you find any of the genres outside of character Interesting, because I'm a believer that you're a character in just about everything you do, even if you're doing e-learning.  0:14:05 - Tom Yeah, I always try to find a person, even when it's just one of those hey, you're a dad, or hey, you're a regular guy. Or I just had an audition yesterday where you're just a regular father, you know it's regular. But the line said something else, you know. So I gave one as what they were saying and then one. That's what I felt the lines were doing. It was a subtle difference, but it was a difference that maybe whoever put this together wants to see. If somebody figured it out, or they didn't know that's where they were going and they don't know. Sometimes they don't even know until they hear it.  So give them what you think they want, and then give them what they say they want.  0:14:39 - Anne So interesting. I guess I would talk to you then about writing right, especially now that you've transitioned in voice acting and you're given a script right, or you're given an audition and finding the humor. Sometimes there's subtleties in that humor, sometimes it's obvious. Are there telltale signs to look out for? And then, once you do see it, is there a specific way that you feel it should be performed? Should it be performed in the obvious way? Or maybe, if you wanna capture the ear of the casting director, you do something different?  0:15:08 - Tom Well, I think you know what you do with a couple takes is you do the one that's on the page and then you do the one that where you think they go or where you can go with it to show what you can bring to the party. I always like to find the humor in something, especially if it says it's humorous, you know, and then play around with it and add a little bit, do a little improv with it, find a little spontaneity into there, or sometimes I'll even rewrite a line, cause I think it's kind of like flat, so I'll make it a little funnier. A punchier.  0:15:36 - Anne Okay, now that gives me a segue into a question In terms of with the script, in terms of improv right For an audition, are you improving in the audition and or improving the line, and at what point do you feel that people may go too far if you're completely rewriting, or do you think that's offensive maybe?  0:15:54 - Tom I think you have to be pretty subtle in rewriting. I think you do run the risk of people going why do I bother sending you a script? Cause you're adding all this stuff to it. So you pick and choose your moments. You know I've done that before, I've added jokes. But I'll listen to it again and go okay, that's a little too much. Plus, I want to have them. I don't want the person thinking after the third one, is he gonna go back to the script or what you know. So I wanna pick and choose my moments and make sure that I think of the funniest, the ones that have the most oomph. You want them to land, and so era on the side of too few than too many.  0:16:33 - Anne Let's talk about character development for you, especially because you're an impressionist. So how can you take, let's say, and you don't necessarily wanna have a character that's just after a particular person, but you wanna develop it into your own character. Is there a formula or a process for that, in terms of developing new characters?  0:16:51 - Tom Well, I have a book of all the impersonations I do, well, a book with the impersonations I do. And then I have like one that's like the ones I do pretty right on, and the ones I do that are just kind of soft. I don't really have it down, but that's great because it's a character.  0:17:07 - Anne Do you have a number for that? Somebody wants to have how many characters in their arsenal, how many to build off of.  0:17:13 - Tom Every day that I can figure out how to do a different celebrity or something like that. I write it down in the book Cause it comes to you sometimes. I mean, when I figured out how to do Robin Williams, it just was an accident. It's one of those things where you find a word and all of a sudden. Then you find a place in your throat and you're doing it and you can't stop.  0:17:32 - Anne It's crazy so it just never stops. I love it, I love it.  0:17:37 - Tom So one day I did Robin for Robin and that didn't go so well, apparently I didn't know he doesn't like his voice, apparently being impersonated. You didn't like that. No, it's really a very awkward Cause. I thought it'd be a lot of fun.  0:17:50 - Anne Yeah, and that's interesting because I'm curious about that. You know, celebrities like their voices impersonated, or now we've got a whole another, a whole another digital thing to be thinking about, when voices might be impersonated or turned into right With synthetic voices. But that might be another podcast.  0:18:10 - Tom That's a little scary.  0:18:11 - Anne That's a scary one, absolutely.  0:18:13 - Tom The thing about it is is like the flaws, like, let's say, go back to Dana Carvey, cause again there aren't many that he does right on, he'll leave me be the first to admit it. He's not like somebody like Frank Caliendo, who's just like amazing. He's verbatim, you can hear the voice. He's somebody who can do a sound alike. Dana could never do a sound alike, but he gets people's caricature down. That's the thing is it's like, and that's kind of what makes it funny is the imperfections is going up, finding those words.  I just, you know, I used to do Bruce Stern and a lot of people kind of forgot who he was, and then one day I just was doing it for somebody to just start laughing Cause they didn't even remember who that Bruce Stern was. But it's just his voice is funny, you know, cause he has a kind of voice like that and it's very inquisitive either. Everything goes up at the end Doesn't make a darn gosh darn bit of difference, and not sometimes he gets crazy. But and so you find those little imperfections actually make a character and make it really funny. That's what I like to do. You know, I did a animation pilot and it was like a hippie character and I was going through a bunch of voices with a writer cause they booked me and they didn't feel like they wanted to do something different with it. They said what can you do? And I was going through my book and I started doing Nick Nolte and they loved it and then you ended up going with that over what they originally had, with me doing it.  0:19:37 - Anne So I love how you have a book with everything written down. Now, do you also have audio files that go along with that, so that you can help yourself get into words?  0:19:45 - Tom Yeah, I have one where it's all my impressions, so that way I can go back. And how do I do that? One Cause I don't practice them all the time. Cause.  0:19:54 - Anne I have life.  0:19:55 - Tom So, and I don't want to be walking around talking to myself, of course, of course. Man, it's got so many voices.  0:20:00 - Anne So are you writing down then the name and then you write down the qualities of the characteristics or how you get into it. Is it a kick phrase? Maybe that gets you into the character.  0:20:10 - Tom Well, there's certain words, for example, you know, I came up with for Christopher Walk and I came up with the word pantaloon being the perfect Christopher Walken word. I'm thinking cowbell but that's yeah, cause. Well, that's, this is before cowbell yeah, before cowbell.  0:20:26 - Anne But pantaloon automatically gets me there. I love it. I love it Cause I say it.  0:20:33 - Tom I can't help but do more. Christopher Walken, who doesn't like a nice pair of pantaloons?  0:20:43 - Anne I love it. I love it.  0:20:44 - Tom Cause you want your calves exposed. So yeah, and then with Kurt Douglas, it was horse, oh Horse, okay, I'm going to read my horse. If I say horse, I go into Kurt Douglas Well.  0:21:01 - Anne I think there's something always so obviously so entertaining, but something that just draws people to comedy. What are your thoughts about this crazy, chaotic world that we live in today, and where does comedy sit now, I mean, in terms of how important is it?  0:21:17 - Tom I think comedy is as important as it ever was. And it's in a weird place right now, cause I think a lot of people are reacting to people saying words and there's a lot of people getting offended easily and comedy is not for those folks that have thin skin, both sides of it.  I find it funny that I think a lot of comics right now have thin skin as far as getting some criticism back, cause it's also about growth. What was funny in 1970, if you listened to comedy in 1970 or the 80s, it's not as funny now. In some of it's just not funny at all. We grow, we expand, we move on, and to me, that's what's great about comedy is it's about adapting. You're always adapting. You're always growing, as you should be as a person. So to me, if you're moving the ball forward constantly in your life, you're gonna be a better person than you were 10 years ago. So why not take that to comedy? Absolutely, the things that were funny like 15, 20 years ago are real cringy right now, and it's not because they weren't funny back then. They were. It's the same reason I get upset with people who go back like 20 years and go. I can't believe you said that back then.  0:22:28 - Anne Well, back then that wasn't offensive.  0:22:30 - Tom Exactly, we didn't find that offensive back then. Now we've all grown up and we've all moved on a bit and we understand that's not the same. But don't punish me for something that was okay Back then. Mark Twain, who wrote a famous book about a guy named Tom Sawyer, had a lot of cringy stuff in his books. There's still masterworks of literature, but those were the times. We have to accept. That's where those books came and there were a reflection of those times. Same way we would stand up. So to me it's just about. Everybody just needs to grow up. Everybody needs to understand where everybody was back then and where they are now and be better for them.  0:23:06 - Anne Yeah, yeah. Do you find that you miss owning a comedy club or booking talent or having that in your life?  0:23:12 - Tom I miss working with young comics. That's the thing I miss the most and it was actually when I started. The last version of Cubs when it exists now, because it's a 400-seat room has really amazing acts, but they're much bigger acts and they generally bring their own acts with them, and comedians who can bring their own acts generally don't bring really really great acts because they don't want to have to work as hard. I would make comics work hard because I would have really good acts going on before them.  Sure, so they have to try to continually stand tall, so they had to keep their game. My thing was like Interesting strategy. I like that yeah yeah, absolutely Nobody could coast. And then later on it was comics they would bring in.  I didn't think they were as talented as some of the people I could book with these guys, and so I wasn't really working with the comics anymore as much as I used to, and so that's one of the things about smaller room is you can get to work with younger comics and you get to tell them the dos and the don'ts and hopefully guide them to a path where they can be their best selves on stage. Sure, that part I miss.  0:24:14 - Anne And actually, speaking of that, what sort of advice would you give to voice talent out there that want to continually up their game and stay on top of the voiceover game, because, boy, it's competitive out there, super competitive.  0:24:27 - Tom It's crazy, it's crazy.  0:24:29 - Anne Like just as I'm sure it was in comedy and being in the club. It's such a mental game a lot of the times too.  0:24:34 - Tom Yeah, the nice thing about voiceover having been a stage actor very early in my life is you don't see the person who you're auditioning for, so you don't see that look, as soon as you hit the stage, that you've already lost your audition. You're not the person they're looking for, and that's so disheartening sometimes so at least you go into every audition with this could?  0:24:56 - Anne be the one.  0:24:57 - Tom And I love auditioning, so I love going into another character or finding something I haven't found before, or even sometimes there's a couple of characters I do that I think, oh man, this one is definitely gonna find a home someplace. It's just a matter of getting in front of the right casting person hearing it. So I'll bring out those guys every now and then, when it's the right opportunity for those characters, cause they're like they're my buddies. I want them to succeed. Yeah, I think just have fun in the booth is the main thing, and if you need to take a break, tell your agent I need to take a break. I mean, I talked to other voice actors and it gets a little depressing. Everybody came in this business thinking that everybody always said I should be in voice acting and everybody always said this is what I should be doing and I did it and nothing's happening.  0:25:43 - Anne Yeah, what's your advice for that? Because that becomes like a mind game. It becomes like oh my God, I've done all this work, what else can I do? I mean, what would you suggest in terms of getting work? It seems like the question I get most often as a coach is like so all right, I've got this great demo now and had this great coaching, and so now, where's the work? How do I get the work? Or how do I stand out?  0:26:04 - Tom I think the thing about it is acting as a lottery. You're buying a lottery ticket is what you're doing. I mean, carlos Alice Rocky was a comic Lucky, had a job, state entertainment state creative, but it was getting the Taco Bell, chihuahua and all those people you auditioned from and he hit it, hit the lottery, you know so, and from there he's done so many other things. But when I say who Carlos Alice Rocky is, when I bring him up, I always go the Taco Bell, chihuahua guy and they go oh, I love that. So it's the same thing where you just go, my lottery ticket is gonna come and you're gonna believe in yourself.  When you believe in your talent and talk to other people in the business too. Just do classes I think it's still a good idea to do, just as even a workout session. Plus, you get some inspiration from other people who have a different style, maybe that you see something in yourself or you bring out something in yourself you didn't know was there. So I would say, take a class every now and then network with other people who just to have support, just so, hey, I'm here for you when you're down on yourself, in the same way that if I need somebody to talk to and say, hey, I'm really kind of wondering what the hell I'm doing here.  And they can talk you down from being sad or lift your spirits up and let you know you're really a talented person. That's why you got into this whole thing in the first place.  0:27:16 - Anne Yeah, I think that self-sabotage can happen to the best of us even.  0:27:20 - Tom And then sometimes you'll hear it in the reads. I mean, again, I'll go into a class and you can tell the person who's been beat down on pretty bad by themselves, mostly Cause do you have an agent? Yeah, do you have a demo? Yeah, well, you're doing all the right things and I think it's good to have an agent or two that are giving you good feedback or giving you feedback.  0:27:40 - Anne I was with an agency that way too many people.  0:27:43 - Tom The poop sticks agency you have 400 people that they represent and you just go. That's too many. I don't feel special when you're just going okay.  You got a demo, you're in. So I think, being with a smaller agency, that's a little more hands-on. Both my agents give me feedback every time, even if it's just a nice job. Yeah, and because of that I feel like I'm better for it, because I already know if I see a script, I know exactly what kind of read in the ballpark I need to be, so that's what I'm gonna get back. I'm at the point now where I really get back oh, you need to do this, this is too much, and something like that. So it's always I recognize what I'm working with right away. I do it, get it out, get the feedback, forget about it.  0:28:26 - Anne That's what you gotta do. I think a lot of people really crave feedback in this industry because we are just in our studios, kind of just talking into our little four padded walls, and so a lot of times it's hard when you don't get feedback and it's interesting.  0:28:40 - Tom Yeah, especially if you don't have a partner in a relationship, you know where you can at least go hey, honey, what do you think of this?  0:28:47 - Anne Yeah, you can bounce it off.  0:28:48 - Tom I don't bother my wife with everything, but every once in a while, you know, I go. You know, what do you think of this? Or she'll hear me and she'll go. I need to hear the whole thing. She'll hear me in my booth screaming, you know. And then now she has to hear all the stuff I did in that character.  0:29:04 - Anne I love what you said about well, at least when you're in front of a stage, I can, you can get that reaction from the audience. You know that, if you've bombed or not already, and the fact that when you're in your studio you actually use the fact that you're not in front of an audience as a creative kind of positive outlook, that you can be creative and not have to face that which is so interesting from, let's say, somebody that doesn't necessarily or hasn't started from being on stage. They might've worked a corporate job and now all of a sudden they're getting into character acting, and so they don't have that perspective. So I really like that perspective of taking the challenge and I think the creativity has to be in your brain, your imagination. You have to imagine that character in that scene, which is so difficult for some people. Do you have any tips on how to really create a scene realistically while you're sitting here in your studio?  0:29:53 - Tom Yeah, I think the most important thing, especially when you get those video games where it's like one line, one line, one line, one line, five, one lines and they're like hey, don't touch that rock and you're going. How are these people going to book somebody based on five lines that are no more than 10 words for the longest one?  and you're going, how am I gonna stand out in front of anybody? So you gotta kind of create a scene around those and those. I generally will write a bigger scene for the line and then because I'll have the line in there and I'll make sure that it doesn't bleed into the other words that I'm saying, but that gives me a little bit more emotional pop for that line.  0:30:35 - Anne Are you developing the characters that you're interacting with as well?  0:30:38 - Tom I know who I'm talking to. Yeah, so I might not have the character fully developed, but I know who I'm talking to.  0:30:44 - Anne Right, and what's happening in that scene? And what's happening, yeah, and you actually write that down.  0:30:48 - Tom I'll go on Word, I'll cut and paste the lines and then I'll put words around the line and highlight the line that is actually in it. So I have all the other words and a highlighted line to make sure I hit that one. But I know what's going on and I try to create more around it.  0:31:05 - Anne So how long would you say do you spend, let's say, analyzing and doing all that work? How long would you say you take for an audition to kind of do that creating the scene and writing that down before you go in and record?  0:31:17 - Tom It depends on my schedule and what I have to do and also how much I think something is really in my wheelhouse. I mean there's things you get where it's like I knock it out in 10 minutes because I really have a solid idea of what I'm gonna do with it and I go and do it and I listen to. It sounds good. With characters, though, with video games and animation, I really like to do as much as I possibly can. I remember I did this video game audition where the character was cockney. I called my dialect coach and we went through the whole thing together.  It was like a class for me. I thought this was a good opportunity to have a little class on doing a cockney accent and I said can I book our session with you? And we just worked on the script I was auditioning for because I really I loved it and I really wanted to nail it and, regardless, I got a class out of it. So it did two things for me helped me learn, and I put that learning to immediate use.  0:32:11 - Anne Absolutely absolutely.  0:32:13 - Tom And again, that's a really good thing to do is have a network of people, find a good dialect coach, find people that are teachers or coaches that you can work with, that you can go to and use them when you need, when you're stuck or when you just need something. Had a Pixar audition that I did and the character was obviously somebody from Eastern Europe and I had a friend who's from Ukraine and we went through the script and she helped me with some of the pronunciations and I didn't book it but I really felt confident sending it in.  0:32:45 - Anne I really felt like I nailed it Exactly. I love that because you've gotten the worth out of it, whether you booked it or not. So that's the other thing. So when you really are excited about something and you do all that work and you feel like you nailed the audition, but then you didn't book it, thoughts on how to stop that from getting you all upset and, oh my God, that's it.  0:33:03 - Tom Well, it's sort of like you still have to go. This is out of my control. I have no idea what the other person at the other end is going through what they've got in front of them. If they end up going with somebody that they've already booked for something and they can give them another character because union rules and it's like you did a really good job, maybe even better than that person but they're already booked and they don't have to pay another person to do that voice. They can do up to three voices and not get a penny more. So they go. Let's just give them that, so you don't know all the little things that transpire for somebody to get that part over you.  0:33:35 - Anne Yeah, and I think it's important for people to understand that it doesn't necessarily reflect on a poor performance or a poor audition.  0:33:42 - Tom No, my agent is a very funny woman and my auditions who I'm getting in front of have escalated. I'm doing more Disney Pixar auditions and stuff like that and she just goes. You're feeling upwardly.  0:33:53 - Anne There you go. I love that.  0:33:56 - Tom Which I thought was hilarious, because we always think we're failing. We're not. We're all doing the best we can and we're all doing great auditions. But because I'm doing so well in my auditions, other casting people are getting interested, so I am getting in front of people that I didn't get in front of, like four or five years ago.  0:34:12 - Anne Awesome, that's awesome. So even if you don't book the job, you could be making an impression on someone that can get you maybe the next job or the job after that.  0:34:21 - Tom That's the idea. They go well.  I really like that because you don't know, when I was booking COBS I would get DVDs and before that VHSs of comedians from around the country. We were very well known so I would get them from New York, boston, other parts of the country and they'd just pile up on my desk because it was excruciating for me at some times. So then at one point, when they were ready to fall over, I would just start watching them. In the beginning I would watch two or three minutes of somebody. Then it came down to just 30 seconds to a minute, because you know right away and that's how I'm sure it is for casting people.  0:34:56 - Anne You know right away if there's talent or if they were gonna be bookable absolutely or if they're right or wrong.  0:35:01 - Tom You might like them and you might wanna listen to the whole thing and you would go ah, they're just not quite right. I need a little bit of a younger voice. This is obviously somebody who's an older voice and I think it's really. I mean, I try to do what I can and have as much fun as I can, because there's gonna be probably 10 years down the road where this voice isn't gonna sound the same and I'll be doing grandpas and wizards.  0:35:22 - Anne So yeah, our voices do change as they age. I have experienced that myself. I certainly sound a whole lot different than I did 10 years ago. Well, well, this has been an amazing discussion, Tom. I so appreciate you taking the time and just dropping all these wonderful tips and tricks and words of wisdom for the boss listeners out there.  0:35:45 - Tom Yeah, yeah, have fun kids. That's the message.  0:35:47 - Anne There you go. I love that. So, bosses, I want you to take a moment and imagine a world full of passionate and powered, diverse individuals giving collectively and intentionally to create the world that they wanna see. You can make a difference. Find out more at 100voiceshoocareorg. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can network and connect with amazing people like Tom. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  0:36:18 - Outro Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  Transcribed by https://podium.page  

What would it look like if you could harness the energy of a conference and convert it into effectiveness? What would it feel like to be your own boss in the voiceover industry? Our esteemed guest, Tom Dheere, joins us as we unravel the answers to these thought-provoking questions. We share valuable insights on setting the right objectives, maximizing conference experiences, and the commitment required to become a full-time voice actor. Plus, we examine the liberating perspective of entrepreneurial freedom offered by the voiceover industry. 0:00:01 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the real boss series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza and I am so happy to bring to this series Mr Tom Dheere. Thank you so much, tom, for joining me on this.   0:00:15 - Tom Yay, thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited about this. This is going to be great.   0:00:19 - Anne Oh, tom, first of all, it was so awesome to see you at the One Voice conference.   0:00:25 - Tom Yes, likewise.   0:00:27 - Anne I know we just had. You were just a guest on my podcast and, lo and behold, like two times I see you within the span of a month or two, which is really incredible, right?   Sometimes we have to go to conferences to just meet in person so whew, I was exhausting that conference, but super motivating, and I know a lot of people who went to that conference are all revved up and ready to go, motivated, inspired. We took amazing classes and so I think it's a good time to talk about. You know, what do we do with all that amazing energy that we just absorbed in that conference? Because I'm revved up, I'm motivated, ready to go. What can we do to, I guess, keep ourselves or keep the momentum going, tom?   0:01:16 - Tom That is a fantastic question and I know you've been presented at dozens and dozens of conferences over the past 10 years, and so have I, and we go and we meet wonderful people and we present and we also attend workshops and panels and we learn a lot and we get to commiserate with our peers, voice actors and coaches and other producers and stuff like that. And then there's this glow.   0:01:42 - Anne There is a glow. It's wonderful glow. There is a glow.   0:01:46 - Tom And then you go home and then for the vast majority of people that go to these conferences, it's like whew.   0:01:53 - Anne And then life sets in right. I have laundry to do. Yeah, family, yeah, right Bills and auditions and stuff like that.   0:02:02 - Tom So it's great. Conferences are great for, obviously for education. They're great for networking, they're great for renewal of purpose, refocus, re-energizing. The trick is how to take all that positive energy and inspiration and revved up-ed-ness and coming, taking it home with you and turning it into effectiveness. Because the positive attitude, while great it can only get you so far, it's not going to get you home. You're going to run out of that momentum and now there's work to be done.   0:02:37 - Anne Interesting, tom. Before we went to the conference, I think somebody had actually created a note sheet of like here are the I guess the talks that I want to go to, here are my goals, or here's what I got out of it, and I thought it was a really great way for people who like that type of thing and they take a lot of notes to write down your objectives. What are you hoping to get from that? And then what do you hope to do once you get, maybe once you get home, to put those lessons learned in place? And so I think that maybe everything should start even before we go to the conference in terms of writing things down and what is it that you hope to get out of this conference. And I'm a big planner, so I am a big proponent of yeah, you guys should plan out what sessions you want to go to, look at the schedule multiple times and just see how you can get the most out of the money that you've spent on that ticket of yours.   0:03:33 - Tom Yeah, absolutely, and different people at different points in their voiceover journey go to different conferences for different reasons, if it's. I've never been one to been one to one before, and I just want to. I haven't even produced a demo yet. I just want to see what this universe is like.   0:03:47 - Anne Great.   0:03:48 - Tom If it's, this is my 15th conference. I've had all these demos done, I've gotten all this work. What am I going to get out of it this time? Or some people go because they specifically want to meet you, or they want to meet another coach or demo producer to see, I want to get in the same room with this person and see if we click because I may want to work with you as a coach or a demo producer. Um, you know, and some go purely as presenters and you know, and then they, you know, do their stuff and then they get out of there and yeah, which is which is which is cool too.   0:04:19 - Anne I think there's such a, there's such a momentum to be gained by just joining forces with like-minded people and, just you know, renewing um relationships, and that just keeps you going, because it's so isolating sometimes just what we do and yeah and I will tell you, though, that the other day I was I don't even know what it was that made me think of it, but I I think I was getting ready to, you know, start.   I had a full day of students, and I said, I don't know what made me think about, oh god, what if I had to go to work for somebody?   um, you know, back in my days of corporate and I'm like I I could never do that again. So boss is out there. This is just a little segue. If you, if, if you know that this is what you want to do and you end up pursuing it full time, I don't say rush into it with your, you know, with your eyes closed. But, um and Tom, we can talk lots of strategies about that, but once you make that decision to go full time, I don't do you know anybody who's actually gone back because they've been unhappy being their own boss um, I know lots of people who have gone back to a regular job because they just couldn't book enough right they needed the money.   0:05:24 - Tom Yeah, exactly, it was purely financially, like I've been trying this and I just, I just can't get enough work to sustain myself and they've come gone back. Um, I can't think of anyone specifically, but I'm sure there are people out there, because there are people who just like to be told what to do, because then they don't have to think about it and there's a level of security in that and I totally that's sympathize with that.   0:05:45 - Anne I'm not one of those people, I can't. I don't, I don't think I could, I could not go back to taking now, I think, now I can take. I can take instructions from my client. Sure, I can be directed um, and then I want to get paid and be done with it. I think that's really it's. It's an interesting. It's an interesting, it's a different dynamic, because that's a, that's a, that's a business to business thing where you and the clients are on equal footing there's no high. There's no hierarchy.   0:06:10 - Tom It's it's you and the client trying to make this finished, great finished product, which is, you know, the audio files that you're gonna send to them or their, their source connecting you through. But with what? When it's a, I am in charge of you and. I'm telling you what to do, and this is when you can go to the bathroom and stuff like that it's like ah, I don't know if I could.   0:06:29 - Anne I don't know, I don't think I could go back to that it makes me think of okay, it's similar to I know I just went off on that on that weird tangent, but that happens sometime, bosses, sorry, um, but it was just a weird like. It just came to me. I was like I could not work for somebody now, so I will do everything in my power to make my business so that I do not have to do that. I think that also was leading into that.   But I think isn't that similar to, let's say, I, I pay my money, I get my ticket, I go to a conference, I take these classes, I'm inspired for a new genre, I'm inspired to work with a new coach, and then we come back and, oops, we're by ourselves, right. So now, yeah, it's very similar to what now, you know, we're gonna be talking about is we've got to take the reins and we've got to do the work and it's, it's now up to us, and we're not necessarily having that coach or that director saying, okay, do this, do this, do this. Now we've got all of this energy and this motivation. How do we cement that and you know, and and start to just really move forward on that?   0:07:27 - Tom right. The trick is if you want to be the vo boss you need to learn how to be your own boss. Yeah, yeah, you know it's empowering to like be the boss. Yeah, I'm a tough boss. I'll tell you that my boss is a jerk my boss, I would say my boss is a bastard oh, I just said that oh. I had another word in mind, but I didn't use it.   0:07:49 - Anne I'm not sure if we'll bleep that out, but yeah woo, I'll tell you what. I've never worked for a harder boss, but isn't that true?   0:07:57 - Tom yeah, yeah, I'm hard on ourselves. I'm pretty real, I'm I'm often pretty relentless and I have to be because I have this bad habit.   0:08:05 - Anne It's called eating and and having a roof over my head, yes, and not living in a cardboard box, yes, yeah, you know.   0:08:14 - Tom So yeah, the motivation is like there's no net yeah, you know what I mean. If I don't audition for this, there's a 100 chance that I'm not gonna book it well, yeah, and I think that's what propels me for sure you know what I mean to get work done, I mean right the fact that I need right.   0:08:30 - Anne I need to be able to pay the mortgage right, and that's the, and that's a.   0:08:33 - Tom That's a great point, anne, is that different people need to find different motivations. To stay motivated when you are alone in your booth talking to yourself? You know, so that's a big part of you know I talk about effectiveness. There's a difference between talent and effectiveness. There's a lot of talented aspiring voice actors out there with interesting voices but like I have an interesting pen, it doesn't make me an author, you know.   0:09:02 - Anne I own a wrench. It doesn't make me a plumber, so having talent, voice doesn't make me effective. Yeah absolutely.   0:09:11 - Tom You know, because no one's going to get discovered, you're not going to get your big break. It doesn't really work that way.   0:09:16 - Anne It's what you do with that pen that matters. It's what you do with that voice that matters.   0:09:20 - Tom Exactly and consistently. Yes, absolutely so when you get home from that conference and you've got all that positive attitude. That's great If you can bottle it and put it on a shelf for later.   0:09:30 - Anne That's great.   0:09:31 - Tom But when you get home, it's about what can I do to be effective today, tomorrow, next week, month, quarter year, two years, five years? And I'm not necessarily talking about writing a business plan, which is something I do do as the, as the video strategist, but it's about how do I think about myself to stay motivated. How do I think about and understand the voiceover industry? So there's a reality, because that's the other thing and, as you know, people coming into the industry have no idea what the industry is. They just have this odd preconceived notion of what it is. Oh yeah, I talk interesting. I got to just get an agent and then they'll just throw Saxa cash at me.   0:10:10 - Anne Exactly and I think, yeah, you don't know what you don't know right.   0:10:13 - Tom You don't know what you don't know.   0:10:15 - Anne And especially not only that is it a new industry for a lot of people, but it's also the fact that there's a lot of people who are very unhappy in their current job situation and get out of that work for somebody else, but then working for yourself is a whole different animal and that really is, I think, where the double it's.   The double whammy comes in for those people new to the industry, because not only are they trying to acquire the skills to be a good talent, but now they also have to have good business skills as well, and they're not used to working for themselves or having to go out and market themselves and get work and all those hats that they've got to put on.   0:10:58 - Tom Yeah, I had a maybe 15 years ago here in New York City. I had a 10 minute meet up with an agent I don't remember which one but he said tell me about yourself. And I talked about all the things I do. He's like, wow, you got a lot of hats.   And I'm like, yeah he's like but you only have one head and I'm like, yeah, so you kind of to be an effective voice actor, you need to kind of be the Dr Seuss Bartholomew in 1001 hats and have all those hats stacked up on. Some of them, some of them, you can take on and put on and take off, but a bunch of them you have to have stacked on your head at the same time, because there is no job description for being a voice actor.   I mean, there is, but nobody knows what it is, until you get here and it's like unlocking these doors and you know, moving these hedges aside and going oh, I need to do, I have to do that. You know it's like. It's almost like a maze, which is the logo of the VO strategist. Now that I think about it helping you navigate the voice over the industry, absolutely. So, navigating the maze of what it means to be an effective voice actor, and staying motivated at the same time. Because, yes, invoicing.   0:12:08 - Anne Staying, staying motivated when you're doing something like accounting.   0:12:12 - Tom Like for me.   0:12:12 - Anne I mean, well, I'm not. I mean, there are some people who love accounting, right, so there's accounting for me. How do there you go See for me? I'm like, oh God, actually I will tell you, tom. So for me, staying motivated while I have an S corp, right, and an S corp is creating all of this paperwork for me and for me, I can't, god it's, and it's just like I need to, either just, you know, be educated about, you know, the entire S corp thing, or I outsource, right. So I think if I had to do all that paperwork and try to understand it all and to stay motivated, it would be very, very difficult for that to happen, and it may discourage me from wanting to have a voiceover business because of this paperwork that I continually have to supply to the government, to you know, support this business, but I, you know, for me one of my solutions is to outsource that right.   And make sure that I have somebody that I trust and can go to if I have any questions, that can handle that aspect for me. So if I'll, I know, constantly get mail, mail, snail mail saying you need to provide this information, or you owe us this amount of money, or you need to prepay this or you know whatever that is, and so I literally will just be like, oh my gosh, this is a lot of paperwork. So I will literally scan that in and send that to my accountant, which, by the way, I will say to the to to my dying day, I will say my accountant was my very best investment for this business. I just I can't. I can't do the numbers.   0:13:45 - Tom Right, well, and that's that's a very important point, and is that if you're getting into the voiceover industry, obviously you need to understand what does that entail on you know soft skills, hard skills, hardware, software, marketing, money and all that stuff, and you need to know, you need to have an understanding of what your S corp is, or what this is, where that is, and then you can decide okay, this is a skill I need to just understand, but I'll outsource it and this is a skill like, for example, using your DAW.   0:14:14 - Anne You have to know how to use your DAW.   0:14:17 - Tom You need to know how to audition and you need to know how to record and clean up and save and, you know, deliver audio file. Some stuff is non-negotiable. You know what I mean.   0:14:27 - Anne But managing your S corp, you know right, that's another thing.   0:14:31 - Tom Or if you're an audio book narrator or a long form e-learning narrator, do you want to hire an audio, an audio engineer, to clean up your clean up your audio or do you want to do that, Do it yourself? Or do you say do it yourself first to understand how it works and why it works and then outsource it? And I'm sure some of your bosses are thinking I don't have that money. To outsource yes, I don't have the money to outsource.   0:14:54 - Anne You need to invest your money to make the money. That's what I always start by saying invest the money to make the money, but and maybe not try to put yourself wholeheartedly into the business until you do have money that you can invest, because that would be, from any perspective, any business. You have to have some investment money.   0:15:15 - Tom I mean it's not just voiceover, just some.   0:15:17 - Anne for some reason it became this like oh, we just talking to a microphone, how easy is that. I don't need to have any money or be prepared, or maybe I just got to buy a mic.   And that, I think, is where, where in the problem lies, where then you start to have, you know, predators in the industry that will sell that dream and people who will get taken for that dream and without the realization that, yeah, they have to put things in place and make investments to do that. So let's, let's kind of go back to we've gone to a conference and we've gotten motivated, and even it doesn't have to be a physical conference, it could be a virtual, online, you know, workshop or whatnot. I just went to a workshop called Unstoppable you. It was a Tony Robbins thing, which was all about the motivation, all about the motivation.   But yeah, now that you've, now that you're motivated, you've got to do the work and you've got to maybe take a look at the hard like really take a look at the the hard questions and and then make concrete steps to move forward. So it's like I can ask the hard questions. I can maybe, I can maybe get through the answers and they might make me cry, some of them Right, they right and so I can do that, but now I have to actually do the hard part, which is moving forward. So what, what would be the first thing you would recommend? Let's say, somebody that comes back from a conference or, you know, a workshop or whatever, and maybe a meeting with a coach and they're they're inspired, they're motivated. What's the first thing that you would have them do?   0:16:46 - Tom The first thing that I would have them do is write down in severe detail what they're perfect.   0:16:51 - Anne Severe detail, not just detail. Severe detail, severe detail.   0:16:55 - Tom What their perfect voiceover day looks like.   0:16:58 - Anne Oh, okay, okay. Follow me with just work with me for a second.   0:17:02 - Tom What time of day are you waking up? What time zone are you in when you wake up? Are you waking up in a house, a cabin, a condo, a space station?   a bunker, a submarine Like? Where are you waking up when it's time to start doing voiceover? Does the limo pick you up? Are you walking downstairs into the basement? Are you getting on a bicycle to go downtown? Are you going into your backyard to your custom built booth? Are you going into the attic? Are you taking a bus or a train? And then, when you get there, what are? What kind of? What kind of bookings are you doing? What genres or subgenres of voiceover? One or more? How much are you getting paid? Obviously, we all want to get paid as much as possible, but what is that actual number that you need to cover all of your voiceover expenses, all of your personal expenses? Manage your debt, save for retirement, save for that college education for your kids, save for that car and have enough to have a little fun.   0:18:01 - Anne And this is before. You're a working talent, right, this is still a, really, if you're just new to the industry and you want to get into it and you're let's say, you're in the process with a coach and you're making demos.   You want to project what genres? First of all, if you're working with a coach, you should probably have a genre in mind already yes, right, and with a genre specific coach. So you kind of know where you want to go. But putting that down, right, even if you're not actually doing the work as you were mentioning okay, this is the work, I'm going to be doing these auditions, even if you don't have audition opportunities yet and you're still just working. Put down that on the list because you want to make sure that you have the space for it and the time for it. Right, right, right. And then the goal, steps, the steps.   0:18:42 - Tom Right, exactly. And once you have that perfect day realized, written down in severe detail, you walk that backwards to the day to the moment that you're writing that list. What are you missing between right now and that perfect voiceover day? What money, how much money do you need? What training do you need? What tools do you need? What marketing acumen do you need? All of the things big and small, knowledge, hardware, software, tangible, intangible mindset to get you where you are and figure out what are you missing and what you need to do to fill those gaps. So when you come home from a conference, all motivated, try to figure out what the practical application of all the wonderful information that you just collected is. We go to all these workshops and listen to all these panels and take all these notes and some of the knowledge is immediately actionable and others are, for you know, I took this genre workshop. I'm gonna keep these notes and maybe I'll be ready for it in a year or two.   And so on and so forth. Organize, organize everything, because you need to figure out how actionable and practical everything that you need is to do to get you to that perfect voiceover day and use the glow and energy and momentum of the conference that you just got home from to kind of build that foundation, build that scaffolding, create that structure. So, when you get back into the day to day grind of trying to build or develop or nurture your voiceover business, you have effective systems of thought and effective systems of execution.   0:20:23 - Anne And let me interject also what I think is important is, of course, yes, you took that workshop on animation or whatever promo, imaging, whatever it is, you know, medical narration, I say because I just did that, love it or corporate.   I think that you always have to keep your eye on the market. I gosh, I feel like sometimes we become so blinded by our own like performance because we're like, oh, I want to get really good at animation or I want to get really good at, you know, whatever commercial or corporate. But I think we always have to keep our eye on the marketplace because if there's not a demand or if the demand is not as big and I'm always telling this to my students about corporate, it's a huge market, is a huge opportunity there Versus animation. Not that there isn't a huge opportunity there, but there's less of an opportunity there than there is in corporate. There's more of an opportunity in e-learning than there is in even I would say, promo, promo, of course. Right, documentary. Everybody that comes to me for narration says I want to do documentaries and I'm like well, how many documentaries do you think there are at any given time? Do you know?   0:21:32 - Tom what I mean yeah.   0:21:33 - Anne Compared to the 30.4 million registered companies that have a product or service to sell that need a corporate narrator.   0:21:40 - Tom And need human resources videos and need orientation videos and need compliance videos Right.   0:21:45 - Anne And I think that that is something that we really need to take into consideration at all points in our business, because that will affect right when you're talking about here's where I am. Here are the here's my perfect day, here's where I want to be, I want to be animating, I want to be doing animations on television or whatever that is, or I want to have a national commercial spot. That's all well and good. However, I think that you also have to take in account what is the market for that? Is there okay? Are you going to be able? And I used to think erroneously back in the beginning, before I realized what the market was oh, I just need a commercial a day, right? Or you know, oh, wouldn't that be nice.   Oh yeah, tom, we're talking about real talk, right? Real bosses. Well, okay, I don't know anybody that gets a commercial a day, except for people who are maybe on rosters for serious exam or they're doing, and that's usually for lower pay. But if you're thinking like, oh, if I got a national spot, even one a week, right, I mean, unless you're in it, voice for a campaign. I mean, I love how you laugh, that's the perfect way.   0:22:46 - Tom Well, I laugh because I thought I had to sound like James Earl Jones.   0:22:47 - Anne Right, I mean yeah, and so like that is. You know you have to understand what's realistic for the, for the industry too, when you're jotting these down. So any education that you can get on that right. Listen to podcasts like Vio Boss. I mean, we've been doing this for six years, right, talking about markets and business. And, tom, you've been doing gosh. How many years have you been doing business consulting?   0:23:10 - Tom and strategizing Over 10 years.   0:23:12 - Anne Yeah, over 10 years and specifically in our industry, and so, like guys, I mean, look, I'm not saying of course you should come to us, but I mean we've been doing this for a long time, we've watched the market evolve and so that's why I want to point it out and say that this is so important for us to have in consideration in our, in our step by step process of here's where we are, here's where we want to be. Now, if I want to be, you know, a commercial, you know Vio artist, well, maybe I want to think about another genre as well, to add in, to supplement those days when I don't get the national campaign every day. And I'm not trying to crush your dreams, guys, that's just not, that's just not it. But you know we're. This is a dose of reality, right, tom?   This is our whole series is based on let's talk real yeah.   0:23:57 - Tom The reality is is that you may be. You may be good at something you don't like, and you may not be good at something you do like.   A lot of people are drawn to the industry because they love cartoons and video games, and a lot of them may not be good at it, but they may find out that they are good at corporate or e-learning, which is a far more to your point, stable form of voiceover income, because, when it comes to effectiveness, the bottom line of effectiveness as a voice actor is you're able to make money. You're able to develop a revenue stream.   0:24:28 - Anne Develop any revenue stream that you need to make. Yeah, develop any revenue stream.   0:24:32 - Tom you can in any genre, whether you like it or not, and I always say all genres of voiceover is storytelling. I get my storytelling jollies out of any voiceover genre.   0:24:44 - Anne I don't care Teaching statistics right or you're narrating corporate responsibility or HR policies. You are absolutely a character and you are acting, and so that is a requirement, that is, I mean, baseline requirement, especially now when we talked about this in our last podcast. It is such a requirement for us to be the actors that we are called to be, I mean, and that includes all genres. So, yes, and that's the reality, that's the real talk.   0:25:14 - Tom Yes.   0:25:15 - Anne The real talk is you've got to invest in yourself, in developing those skills and getting good coaching, and not just taking acting classes. I know everybody would say take an acting class, and I think that's wonderful too, but you've also got to take acting classes as they pertain to voiceover as well.   0:25:32 - Tom Yes, there's a crossover. I mean, I always say improv classes are extremely important because it gives you the ability to make strong decisions quickly while you're narrating your copy. But to an end, compliment stuff like that, and there's like there are people who do improv for voiceover and acting specifically for voiceover. It's a very specific skill.   0:25:54 - Anne There's very specific muscles that you need to flex, Absolutely, absolutely To be to do voiceover as opposed to on camera or as opposed to theater. I'm all about teaching the acting for narration and, by the way, tom, I miss you. I don't see you. Did you turn your camera off by any chance?   0:26:09 - Tom No, I'm still here.   0:26:11 - Anne Oh, I don't see you how interesting. That's that's. Do you see yourself?   0:26:16 - Tom I do.   0:26:17 - Anne Oh, okay. Well, I'm just going to assume.   0:26:19 - Tom Okay.   0:26:20 - Anne I'm going to assume that it just kind of blipped off. But you know, hey guys, technology Riverside, hopefully we'll have your, we'll have your video anyways.   0:26:30 - Tom Okay.   0:26:30 - Anne Absolutely, so, okay, so, so what a great conversation. So now you're back. Okay, so that's interesting. So now we've taken our, we've come back from the conference, we're motivated, we're, we've written down our, our perfect voiceover day, right and so, and then we've worked backwards to the steps. And so what would be next after that, tom, how do do we need to? We probably need to take time to evaluate whether we've accomplished those steps right, absolutely.   Once we've written them down and we've and we've developed our to-do list. Now we've got to go back, maybe in a week or so or in a you know at the end of the day and say did I accomplish my tasks?   0:27:07 - Tom Yes, self-evaluation and self-reflection is one of the most important skill sets to be an effective voice actor. Because you don't have. Unless you're part of my mentorship program or you're mentoring with Ann, you are working in a vacuum. You need to develop the ability to metacognate, which is the ability to stand outside of thank you, the ability to stand outside of yourself. Look at yourself objectively and say did I do what I assigned to my assigned for myself? Did I do it? Well, if I didn't do it, why didn't I do it? Was there a logistical problem? Was a financial problem? Was there a motivational problem? You know and find out why, why you do what you do, how you tick, and there's a time to be kind to yourself and there's a kind, there's a time to be tough on yourself. You know.   0:27:56 - Anne And so taking I think I've always tough on myself, but you're right, yeah.   0:27:59 - Tom You have to be able to. You have to be able to do both, because we're all human. We all have different energy levels and emotional states that fluctuate constantly throughout the day, week, month, year, decade, and we need to be accommodating for that. Oh, mercury's in retrograde today, so I'm not going to get my invoicing done, or what were you?   0:28:18 - Anne know oh, technology sucks, technology sucks. You know what I mean?   0:28:21 - Tom Oh, great retrograde, yeah, you know but if you find yourself making excuses for yourself about why you're not doing things, then you are not being effective.   0:28:28 - Anne Because I have an, I have an action for it. That's a whole another podcast right there.   0:28:32 - Tom Yeah, I have my action plan right here and I don't check off every single box. I get about 80% of my action plan stuff done every month, dating back to 2006. And sometimes it's-.   0:28:42 - Anne Do you have records from back then? Do you do you have a-.   0:28:45 - Tom I have a binder right here with every single one of these. So January 2006-. I love it Was my first printed one and I've done 12 a year since 2006 and it's in this binder right over here.   0:28:54 - Anne It does not surprise me that you love numbers too. I love numbers, right, yeah, see, and so that I feel goes along with.   Now I'm not so much, although I will. I will share my book is out there, but I have my to-do list that I love to cross things off on and I have my planner where I like to write my goals down. I'm not always as good as I propose to be, but, yeah, I think that's super important. But, wow, what a great conversation. I want to talk to you more, in more detail, about a lot of these steps because I think they're super important in our series. So, tom, thank you so so much for joining me for our first, our first in a series of real bosses.   0:29:35 - Tom Yeah.   0:29:36 - Anne So, guys, if you, I have a simple mission for you, but one that has big impact 100 voices, one hour, $10,000. Four times a year. Do you want to know what I'm talking about? Visit 100voiceswhocareorg to find out more and to join us. And big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. We love IPDTL. We love connecting with bosses like Tom and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and be real bosses. We'll see you next week. Bye, bye.   Transcribed by https://podium.page

Anne and Lau recently held an Audition Demolition workshop which included a live callback and casting process. In this episode, the Bosses discuss the audition demolition and how it mirrors the casting process. They explain the importance of taking direction well, researching scripts, and approaching every piece of copy as an actor. During a live callback, don't forget to have fun and enjoy being in a room with other people. Anne and Lau also discuss the importance of feedback and how it can help aspiring voice actors hone their craft Finally, we examine some of the memorable people and performances that stood out. The Bosses finish by reminding listeners that our next Audition Demolition is coming up soon! Transcript 0:00:01 - Intro It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a V-O boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   0:00:19 - Anne Hey everyone, welcome to the V-O Boss podcast and the Boss Business Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my bossy co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey Anne, how are you? I'm awesome, Lau. How are you Good? Fantastic, Lau. We had the most amazing audition demolition this past weekend.   0:00:45 - Lau Woohoo, it was super, super power.   0:00:49 - Anne Yeah, I think we should chat about it. Oh, let's go, I'm ready. Yeah, well, for those bosses who are unaware, we created a audition demolition workshop, which is very similar. We did it once before a Lau, but we added a couple of new twists to it and essentially it was to mimic the casting process, the audition process, and so people could enter and they could choose to get feedback or not. They could audition and get feedback, or audition and not get feedback through our Dropbox new application called Replay. Lau and I were selecting a short list after that and ultimately did not announce the short list until the live show, which was this past weekend. I think it was so exciting, Lau.   0:01:42 - Lau It was so fun, it was great. It took a while right. It took us time to get through it. It wasn't a quick deal. It took us. How long was the show, how long did it run?   0:01:52 - Anne A couple hours, it was a couple hours and we had 10 people that we called back, just like in a real audition I was talking Lau about. When I used to drive into LA I would get notice from my agent that said you've been called back and they want to hear you. I would drive oh God, I would drive into LA and go to the studio and I'd see a lot of times I'd see my voiceover friends there. It was kind of nice. It was like a big party. But yeah, we were still auditioning and so I was a little nervous. I think all of us had a little bit of nervous.   But we would be called in one by one to read a script and Lau, and I tried to mimic that as much as possible during our weekend, and so people were not aware if they were on the shortlist until they got to the live show and then we announced the shortlist one by one. It wasn't, we announced everybody on the shortlist at once. It basically like as if you were waiting in the studio lobby to be called into the studio to read, and so that's what we did. Everybody was surprised and we had 10 people that we shortlisted and we had them come in and guess what? The client changed the script. Now, we did that before, but that's typically what happens, right, you read an audition and then when you go in person to audition, they have a different script. That's almost always the case, I think, and so we changed the script on them, and I don't know Lau. What were your thoughts?   0:03:15 - Lau I thought it went really well. I mean surprising that I kind of thought to some degree many would fall apart with that and not know what was going on and there would be mass confusion and there would be fire and tornadoes and earthquakes. And Charlton Heston would come out of the booth and then we would be eating alive, right, and then the sea would part.   I was like, oh, what are we doing inviting this? But no, seriously. We had some faith in these wonderful talent, and rightly so. They all came through. Everyone came through, I think, with flying colors, and we did. We're good actors, ann. I mean, we made them sufficiently sweat a little bit as if you would in a real live audition. There was a little stress, little tension in the air. I know people were nervous because I saw conversations beforehand flying around on email and in the chat and I love that.   I think that that gave it that flavor of a real. You know it was a mock audition but it was a real audition feel, which is something we wanted to mirror for the professional development and education of it. Absolutely, that worked well. I thought that really worked well.   0:04:20 - Anne And I think that it's really good to get yourself practiced in a live situation where you're definitely feeling adrenaline, whether you're nervous in a good way or even a bad way, right, it really helps you to get seasoned and to figure out what you have to do to work out those nerves to really perform well, and I think that that was a good experience for everybody that participated.   And I feel that, by the way, and so what? We waited until the very beginning and we said guess what? The client changed the script and then we gave them the new script. So talent did not have a lot of time to prepare. As a matter of fact, I would say the first talent that we called up usually is the one at the disadvantage for this particular show, because typically we're not listening to each other audition. We're going in one by one and it's a private thing and we get private feedback. But this because we wanted this to be an educational experience. We had an entire Zoom room full of people who didn't know if they made the audition and were listening to the feedback live, real time from both Lau and myself, and so that will happen a lot of times.   Lau, right in a real situation, you'll have more than one person giving you feedback. You'll have an engineer in there, you'll have a director, you might have a client. You might have more than one person that's offering you direction at the time, and they could have different ideas about the direction. Now, I think Lau, you and I, we think fairly similarly, but there were some auditions where I wanted to hear something different than you did or feedback that we gave was absolutely, I think, different in different spots, but I think overall, we were sticking to the casting specs that were laid out there and that was very similar to a lot of casting specs. That is, make it authentic, make it real, make it, make it conversational. So that's always a task, I think, for talent, and when they're just seeing the script for the first time and even if we've been directing other people, they might be oh my God, they might be preparing. They might not have listened to our feedback, right?   0:06:24 - Lau Yes, yes, and that was the great part of having everyone in the room. That would not happen in an audition most of the time most anywhere but we wanted that educational experience. We wanted people to observe each other's work and get the benefit of everyone's feedback so that even if they were nervous in preparing, they could absorb some of what they were hearing before they went on. And I think that it was a blessing for people to kind of go later and it was also a blessing for people to go first.   0:06:55 - Anne Sure, oh, I agree.   0:06:55 - Lau Because it's a very different experience. I also wanted to bring up, too, our experience, ann, of when we were commenting in the Dropbox and doing all of our feedback, that I heard in the session from a number of people and post via email thanking us that they felt that the feedback was so wonderful, so detailed, so necessary and it was like a drink of nectar for a lot of people that said I'd like to think what you said was authentic and real and that it gave me time, it made me feel special, it made me feel like someone was paying attention to me, that status casting agency status, coaching status and that I could walk away with some real tools, practice tools to work on.   Absolutely. It wasn't just about am I good, am I bad?   0:07:46 - Anne am I right am?   0:07:46 - Lau I wrong. It was much more about reminding me that I have a full process here and I can go in many different directions, and I'd like to think that you and I gave as much authentic feedback as we could, rather than artificial feedback just for the sake of entertainment value.   0:08:03 - Anne Oh yeah, no, absolutely, and I'm going to say that I think that what I loved about it is that the educational component that came into it with the feedback and this is the feedback not just during the live show, this is the feedback via Dropbox. The really cool thing about Dropbox Replay and offering feedback there's a lot of times you'll notice that you submit your auditions via Dropbox and you always have to be careful how you name them and there's lots of criteria when you upload an audition. The cool thing about being able to offer feedback for all the people that requested it is that we were able to give feedback along a timeline, and so if there was a particular passage that they did well or a particular passage where they maybe lost their authenticity or we had a critique, we could specify it at the specific time that it happened, and that's something that you don't always get in a real audition. As a matter of fact, usually in an audition you'll go in and read, and it's very rare that they'll offer feedback. They might give you a set of directions to do it again and may not offer as much verbose feedback as we did during the session, and you're kind of left with.   Okay, I hope I did good. And so you know, I'm always walking out of the room going well, I think they liked me. I hope they liked me, I hope I nailed it. And a lot of times they will give some generic thank you so much. Sometimes they won't say a word, they'll just say okay, thank you, and you'll walk out that door going gosh, I hope I nailed it. Which is what I love about the audition demolition is that we were able to really go beyond that and really act as like okay, here's what we would offer you feedback for the educational component. And then, when we made our decision Lau this is what I loved we muted ourselves, because a lot of times we're there, live in the studio or we're in a Zoom session and we are being directed and then all of a sudden they're gonna mute and they're gonna talk and we can see them talking behind the glass and you're like okay, did they like that?   What are they talking about? And you know, maybe they're talking about lunch, we don't know. Maybe they're talking about my performance. Was it good, was it bad? Oh, my God, what are they gonna tell me next? And then they'll say okay, thank you, we're done. But I liked our mimicking of that.   0:10:14 - Lau And there was a funny moment, though you can't forget to share, that hilarious moment, where we had talked about giving each other a call, a cell phone call, so that we could have this sort of intercom system between the two of us in case we wanna bring up some details to each other or just remind each other about certain cues. I totally forgot, and it was about a quarter of the way through and I said oh wow, I get a call. And I called Ann and I said Ann, listen, because one person didn't show up. I said do you want to have another call back, since we have an open slot? And she's like Lau, everyone can hear you. Right now Can everyone hear Lau? And they're like, and I'm like, that's okay, they'll learn from it, it's great for them.   0:10:59 - Anne There you go, there you go, and here's the deal In a real situation, right? If you don't show up to that casting call, that's it. You snooze, you lose, you're out, and they may make a decision at the last minute to call more people, or they need to hear more people, or maybe they didn't get what they needed from the first audition. Gosh, that goes on all the time.   Right, Lau, they recast it because they didn't really get what they wanted. So we did that too which I love it through a wrench in it, because everybody that was shortlisted thought that was it. And then all of a sudden we had a discussion. We said we'd like to call back Actually, we were gonna call back two people, but we ended up calling back one other person, which again added that element of surprise which again hypes up the adrenaline and the nerves. And so I think again, this audition demolition Lau we can do this like regularly, because I think it's a skill that every voice artist should have in their toolbox to be able to be prepared on the fly, work through those nerves and just perform and get that gig and be able to take direction well, right, and no matter how we slice it, of course we're always about process or process oriented people.   0:12:14 - Lau But there is a product, there is a gig at stake and in this contest we had prizes, we had some cash.   0:12:22 - Anne We had cash.   0:12:22 - Lau We had cash we had cash, we had a going on. People were really fighting and cLauing for the real deal. It wasn't just oh, you won, congratulations. It was, let's actually reward you. Who is something real world that you can enjoy, right and people love that.   0:12:38 - Anne I think people love that. I mean, who doesn't love cash? Who doesn't love cash? I mean, that's just as you know, that's an investment in your business, right? So invest in the audition demolition and you can win cash and or swag, and so I'm extremely excited to have offered that.   0:12:54 - Lau I wanna ask what were some auditions that really stuck out for you and why did they stick out for you? I mean, even in the larger pool, not just the short list, but even in the larger pool there were so many unique people. Oh yeah, they were diverse talent very across the board. No two people were the same. What were some of the more memorable people and performances that your audience can learn from today?   0:13:18 - Anne Well, first and foremost, understanding that I'm going to be casting for a particular job and a particular company, which this happened to be University of Phoenix, I had a demographic in mind that I wanna advertise to and I had a sound in my head that I thought would be a good representative of this particular company or university that would be able to sell effectively.   And I think that every casting director has an idea in their head as to what kind of a voice they're looking for, which usually ends up in the specs. But sometimes they change their mind when somebody gets creative or maybe interprets the script in a little bit of a different way. And it was always those auditions that stood out to me, the ones that it wasn't like the song that I heard in my head. Right, we were asking for authentic, we were asking for conversational, and those people that could really come into the first few words, that sounded like they had a story, they had a person they were talking to, those were the ones that perked up my ears. And, of course, those that had a very different, a very different sound as well. I mean, I will say I mean I can't say that your sound doesn't come into play here, because, again, we're hiring people based upon how we think they're going to effectively sell our product. Right, what?   0:14:40 - Lau about you Lau? I would agree, and I made a concerted effort to come in with a very open mind and play the producer, who has not as much idea of what I'm actually looking for. I just know, I know the product, I know the school, I know the program, I've seen their advertising campaigns. I get that, yeah, but I want to keep an open mind because I'm not exactly sure which direction I want to go in. Yeah, age wise, diversity factor, accent wise and I'm glad I did that, because everyone was so different and so unique. I would have been let down only in the sense that I would have been looking for that needle in a haystack.   Oh, I was looking at the whole haystack and because we did that, our shortlist was so diverse.   0:15:27 - Anne Oh, it was no two people who are alike, right.   0:15:30 - Lau You'd say, was there even a breakdown involved with this, because they were so large?   0:15:33 - Anne and that's what's so cool. What I love about what you just said was I said okay, I had an idea in mind, right, I know the demographic, I know the product and I know the type of sound that I'm looking for and that's what I'm gonna put in the casting specs. However, you're absolutely right. By being open-minded and hearing a bunch of different voices, then I started to think, well, okay, for this campaign, I like this voice because of this factor. I like this voice because that's the one I originally thought would be a really great choice for selling. But now I can see that this other voice, which may not have been anywhere, like I thought right, would really be effective in helping to sell my product as a casting director.   So, yes, keeping it open-minded, understanding, guys, that even though the casting specs may call for something, right, if you bring something unique to the read, you bring yourself, you bring that personality, you bring something that just makes us go oh, okay, I didn't think about that.   It really is a wonderful testament to, literally, your voice. It could be any voice, right, it doesn't have to be a particular sound, doesn't have to be a particular style, it can be you, it can be what you bring to the read and that can sway a casting director's choice, which is amazing, right, it's wonderful, it's hopeful and it makes you feel like, alright, well then, I still am gonna give my best, right? Well, if you're looking at the casting spectrum, I don't know, I'm probably not gonna get it. I mean, no, don't feel that way at all, because we were surprised very, and actually even in our decisions, right, in terms of who were we going to cast when it came down to it. Right, we were going back and forth between a couple of different voices and I think that, well, let's keep these guys on hold or on call back, or who else would be great for this campaign. There were multiple choices.   0:17:19 - Lau Yeah, and I was playing tricks in my head saying, oh, I can't wait to see who's gonna win this thing, because I have no idea right now. Literally throughout the whole thing, I literally Could not figure out who is going to win and who is going to book the gate, and I think that's very true and very accurate to the casting process. Many times it comes right down to the wire when everyone is disagreeing on a talent or maybe they need to bring in another talent, and you and I did that.   0:17:46 - Anne We weren't necessarily it didn't bring but, we were going back and forth about.   0:17:50 - Anne We wanted to narrow it down, and it was tough for us to narrow down those choices because we each had our own Independent, we had our favorites and we had people that we thought were best suited for the campaign. I'm glad that we were able to. Obviously, we awarded the gig to one person and that's a congratulations to Joshua Goodman and then we awarded to runners up, because that was something that we thought you know we're gonna keep you on our shortlist for perhaps the next campaign and that was Pat Kennedy, was one of our alternates and gender Macintosh. So congratulations to everybody and really congratulations to everyone who auditioned. I mean, I was so impressed with the professionalism and the talent that we heard and I'm excited to do this again, and I'm excited about changing up the scripts, the genre right and changing up the scripts and having even more people audition for this. So I think it was a real success. I don't know what are you excited about for what's up next?   0:18:51 - Lau Well, I'll tell you one piece of excitement, and I don't like to say this at the top. It's what we call metatheatrical. It's a reality within a reality, within a reality, but the truth is, this was not a mock audition when I looked at this, and I'm sure you were thinking this too, in regards to recommending clients for projects that you're a part of. I am always looking for new talent. So there will be people that I'm going to reach out to for MCVO contracts.   0:19:20 - Anne We don't say that and I'll be referring people because it becomes a top of mind. I know who my talent are Top of mind, yeah, and I'll be casting for projects as well. While I'm not a talent agent like yourself, I do have a number of clients that I help cast for and I actually have a couple of rosters that I place people that I recommend I place them for jobs and so the truth is is like it's a mock audition for educational purposes.   0:19:47 - Lau but there's a subtext of reality that whenever you're in front of working people in the industry, they're always going to be thinking about you for potential work. How do you put someone like us in front of some of these people and say don't look at them for work, just look at them as a student? It's not possible, because they're working people, they're working professionals. So we want to give educational value, lots of educational value and development, but we also want to potentially find new people.   0:20:19 - Anne we could be working with Awesome talent. No question, let's there to lose for auditioning, right? So our next audition demolition and again. By the time this airs, it may have passed already, but I really think, talking about our experiences with the first one, I think it ran gosh. It ran smoother than I even thought, and so I'm really excited to continue this on a regular basis because I think it's just so educational and, as bosses, we're all about the education. I'm all about providing a great resource. That's what we do here at the VioBoss podcast, and we're here to help. We're here to hopefully give you some advice and tips along your journey in this crazy voiceover industry that we all love so much. And hey, what can I?   0:21:03 - Lau say I think it's fantastic and I want to be clear to those who have no idea what we're talking about and want to get involved with it that you're getting literally hours worth of feedback. Oh yeah, not just a quick. That was great and you're done. You're getting all the written feedback first Plus and our Dropbox Plus.   You're going to show up on the contest day in real time live and you're going to get all sorts of feedback. You're going to hear everyone else's feedback. You're going to get to observe and steal and absorb everyone else's. Then you'll get your own. So it's like double feedback, Endless feedback.   0:21:38 - Anne It's like double feedback. It's more than if you just go to one session, because you're getting much more written feedback from both Lau and myself, whether you make the shortlist or not, and during the class you're going to have the exposure to finding out. If you're on the shortlist and even if you don't make the shortlist, you get to watch the others perform and be redirected and get that education as well. So I mean, gosh, the value I'm just saying the value is incredible, guys.   0:22:08 - Lau It's massive, it's huge. I mean, I don't know any other circumstance that offers that kind of thing.   0:22:14 - Anne And who offers cash? Who offers? Cash as a prize and the amount of time that we're dealing with a compressed amount of time, right, right, you can win back your money plus some, win back your investment and some, and have fun doing it and be top of mind for those people that may be able to help cast you in further roles.   0:22:34 - Lau So and do you have a couple of quick tips? I love tips, couple of quick tips for the next round of talent. Who are like I have to do this, I got to get in on this or the round that just came through. I know a lot of them are already talking about coming back. They want to have another go of it, they want to be challenged again. Let's talk about quickly a couple of tips that we can offer them when they come back. Good idea, when they're coming in for the first time.   0:22:58 - Anne Well, I'm going to say, first and foremost, do your research on the script, do some analysis before you run into your studio and just read it as if you this is the way you think it should sound.   I really think you've got to spend a few moments and, if you can, google the product, google the company, find out like who their demographic is, find out if they've had other campaigns. Take a look at those campaigns. See what their style is, what their brand is, what their mission statement is, and I think all of that information can help you to voice for that company better. And also make sure that you are, after the analysis, that you really look at it as an actor and I know you're gonna probably expound on this one, but I want you to really look on that script as an actor. You're not gonna probably get a storyboard with it, and so you have to try to imagine what's happening in the scene, always know who you are and who you're talking to, and really put yourself in a scene so that you are authentically in it, telling a story where all storytellers right. We have to tell the story. We have to engage the listener into a believable, authentic performance and Lau. I'm sure you're gonna go off on that one, oh my gosh.   0:24:11 - Lau I second that. I third that I also don't want you to lose that fun factor, because there is a tremendous fun factor to not just voicing the copy but also being with people in a room. When you're with people in a room, I know it's scary, it's nerve-wracking, you don't know who everyone is, but I want you to enjoy, like, really relish the moment and have a little bit of personalization as you. So some of the time when you were giving a direction in, or we gave an adjustment or we were just greeting people, there were some people that stuck out in my mind as being very memorable because they had that mix of business acumen with warmth and fun, and they smiled a lot. There was one talent His teeth were so white I couldn't stop looking at them. He just smiled the whole time because we were visually in a room seeing each other.   We weren't just hearing each other audio wise, but all of that counts for something it does. Yeah, so that I know, okay, this talent knows how to smile on a lot of commercial reads. This person knows how to be a warm, engaging person. So if they're dealing with our clients, they're gonna be that way, like there's a lot of reasons.   0:25:20 - Anne Good points, excellent Right.   0:25:22 - Lau We have to enjoy. Let go be social a little bit, be personable. We're not gonna waste time, we're not getting into huge conversations. It's not a party, but it is a real time engagement of real people, and those people stick in my mind and relationships do matter.   0:25:39 - Anne I mean, it's one of those things that, like you said, it's not a party that you're gonna be talking the director's ear off, but you certainly have to have a little bit of a personality and have a little bit of joy and a little bit of definitely a lot of professionalism, but also let us see a little bit about who you are and that will help us to understand what you can bring to the table Absolutely, and that's within your interactions. When we're giving you direction and feedback, all of that comes out. So, yeah, good advice.   0:26:06 - Lau I'm gonna throw in another one and say it's really important to warm up. We wouldn't know for sure because we weren't asking this question, but I would suspect there were a few people who are not quite as warmed up as they could have been, mainly because they were stumbling a lot, they were going back on lines, they weren't breathing well, they were holding the breath, and I do think a lot of that is just nerves.   0:26:29 - Anne It could be nerves.   0:26:30 - Lau Yeah, real time, but take the time, even if it's an hour. Sit in your booth or take the time to stretch, drink water, breathe the air, go over your lines, feel them through, personalize them, so that it isn't just about getting the script right or I gotta get through this and sound good. It's about how do I feel you and I talked a lot about like the person that you're being and talking to is this real person? Even though it had a little bit of a corporate, boxy language to it, it's real. They're real people. So you gotta do that in your warmup. You have to incorporate that all in your warmup. You can't warm up or come in and you're colder and then you're warming up as you audition. I never recommend that. I think you should come in fully engaged full throttle, full throttle and get ready to go.   I think that that was the difference. That was one of the big differences between the people who are a little bit on a higher level and people who are coming into it, kind of feeling it out.   0:27:29 - Anne Yeah, yeah, and absolutely, when you're hearing direction and feedback as well, if you've got that pencil and you've got the script or your pad, your iPad, whatever it is to make some notes, cause I know, in the heat of the moment, sometimes, when you're getting direction and feedback and they ask for another read, sometimes they give a lot of things, okay, and then over here, I'd like you to lighten up here and who are you talking to and I feel like, if you needed to make some quick notes, make sure that you have the ability to do that. I love that, yeah.   0:27:59 - Lau I even say you know, with a prop. If you're dealing with a prop and you like a prop and a prop works for you, make it a prop that counts. Make it something that is meaningful to you. The first thing that came to my mind was if I'm dealing with the University of Phoenix read, and if you watch the advertising campaigns, traditionally they're pretty heartful. There's a warmth and a thoughtfulness to it. It would be great to have what the diploma looks like in front of you, or what a graduate looks like in front of you or what personally, so that you can see how meaningful that is to someone. That is going to change their whole life. That piece of paper is going to change their whole life potentially, and just bringing that in with you can change your whole delivery versus. Let me just get the first line right. Yeah, Absolutely.   0:28:43 - Anne You know what I mean Absolutely and, like I said, I think that research and maybe looking at other commercials that they've done or other work that they've put out there to their potential clients, yeah, absolutely, that can really make a difference.   0:28:55 - Speaker 1 So wow Good, I'm excited. I can't wait for the next one. I can't wait, bosses stay tuned.   0:29:02 - Anne We will have the next dates on the VO Boss website, vobosscom. The events should be right there on the front page, and so we are looking forward to having all of you come and audition for us and take advantage of the audition. Demolition and Loth. Thank you so much, as usual, for another amazing discussion. Bosses, here's a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceshoocareorg to commit. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and connect like a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and we will see you at the next VO Boss audition demolition.   0:29:46 - Lau Yeah, see you then, woohoo, bye.   0:29:50 - Speaker 1 Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Gangusa, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL yeah.   0:30:23 - Lau You really know your stuff.   0:30:28 - Anne I'd like somebody to say that to me you really know your stuff. I want every session to be like wow, that was amazing.   0:30:36 - Speaker 1 Oh my gosh, I know a man.   0:30:38 - Anne Bob, it's been. It's been years since we've had a talent.   0:30:41 - Speaker 1 It's somebody this talented. It's been years.   Transcribed by https://podium.page

Join Anne & Lau as they embark on a fascinating exploration of the online casting world and analyze the controversial role of Fiverr in the voiceover industry. They shed light on the complex ethical issues prevalent in the freelance industry, emphasizing the significance of transparency, fair compensation, and adherence to industry standards. Listen in as The Bosses discuss online casting's ability to provide global exposure, momentum, and representation for emerging voice talents.  Learn valuable insights into navigating the evolving world of online casting while maintaining ethical practices and fostering a thriving voiceover community.   Transcript   Anne: Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have my amazing, lovely, lovely boss co-host Lau Lapides with me. Yay!   Lau: Hey everyone! Hi Anne! Back, back, back. We're back.   Anne: Lau, I've got a dirty word that I heard.    Lau: And I've got a jar that you're going to put a quarter into.   Anne: Every time you say that word, that F-word, I mean, and I'm not --   Lau: No…   Anne: — talking the F-word that most people think. Or maybe if you're in the voiceover industry, you know what that F-word is?   Lau: What?   Anne: It's not failure either, because that's also another F-word. But the word Fiverr.   Lau: Oh! Quarter in the jar.   Anne: Quarter in the jar every time you say the word Fiverr. So I think we're going to be rich, maybe, Lau   Lau: Quarter in the jar.   Anne: After this podcast. So yeah, it's a hot topic. It's always been a hot topic. And I think that it's a considerably bigger topic because I've been in the industry forever. So before there was Fiverr, there was other places that --   Lau: Always.   Anne: —  always places that like Fiverr. And I think now we just really hear so much more about it because we're all online and everybody can talk about it in groups easily. And so we should talk. Lau, what are your thoughts about -- and before you just come right out and say what your thoughts are about Fiverr, I mean let's talk about business. I think that when you talk about businesses, you're always going to have businesses that are luxury brands, right?   Lau: Hmm, yes.   Anne: You know, that sell luxury brands or luxury, you know, the idea of luxury. And then you have the other that are economical.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: And yeah, cost savings and efficient. And so I'm going to start by saying I think that that Fiverr fits in that model that probably isn't elegant brands, but it is the more cost efficient. And here's where you can get something quick, easy, cheap, and fast.   Lau: Yes. Yeah, I'm going to second that and agree with that. But it's interesting because the way I frame Fiverr and sites that are similar to that, the way I frame that in my business brain is under the umbrella or framing in a context of how do I start my business or how do I gain more momentum in my business and how do I get known in my business? This is  one way that is a way that you can build your client list. And the interesting part about a Fiverr is if you choose to go that direction, you have to know that people are going offline and it's wild west.    So they're building their client list, they're charging all their rates that they're deciding on, they're communicating directly with their clients after awhile. So they're utilizing it as sort of a jumping platform to get out there, get known, and have Fiverr do a lot of the marketing for them so they can get found, and once they're found, then they start to make the rules themselves. They start to build their own clients themselves. So there's something to be said for having a platform. And now this is very common. Marketplaces all over the place are housing voice-over talent and voice-over services so that they are in essence marketing you. You're not doing the marketing, so that potential clients and prospects can find you.   Anne: So, we should clarify. I mean, there are some platforms -- I'm not going to talk too much about the other ones, but there are some online casting platforms that you cannot take the client off of. I love what you said about how it's a jumping point. I mean, look, online casting sites, you know, SEO works on frequency of words, right? And so search engines are built to be good search engines. And so if you're looking for a voice talent or a voice actor, and you do a search at the Google prompt, then essentially they want to be a good search engine and serve back the right material.    So when you've got online casting sites and you've got people that have thousands on thousands of profiles that say, I'm a voice actor — guess who has the best SEO, right? Those online casting sites. And honestly, it's almost impossible for you as a single individual business to go up against that SEO because you've got so many matches, right? And so the search engine says, well, the first, if you're searching for voice artists, well, the first place that comes up that term or that word, that search term, would be a casting site that has thousands upon thousands of profiles that say, I'm a voice artist.   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: And so I love the fact that you use it to get your jumping off point, your marketing, use it for its SEO. And it's well known that Fiverr has great SEO, and as well as the other online casting sites, Voice123, Voices.com, they all have great SEO. And so to get yourself found of hundreds of thousands of people, that is absolutely an approach to doing that. And I'll tell you what, starting off understanding the type of business that Fiverr is, or some of these online casting sites, they're in business to make money. And also the people that are on these platforms are making money. Now, are they making great money? Are they making, you know, is it, You know what I mean?    Like, if you're on Fiverr and you're making money for your family, I'm not even talking voiceover, but you're doing something — and again, this is a global site where there's lots of representation. And we live in the United States, which is very privileged, I'm just going to say, right? There might be people on there that are from other countries where $5 to them is a lot of money, right? And it's a way that they can feed their families. And so I can't, I can't, I can never shun the business. I mean, I can, I can say to them, well, I don't like their advertising. I don't like their ethics. I don't like their lack of transparency for any business, right? And I can choose whether or not I want to associate myself with that business. And I do that every single day. Right?   Lau: Right.   Anne: We do that every single day. So as a voice talent, is it horrible for you to be on Fiverr? And again, there's such. back and forth. And for me, Lau, I've always maintained that, mind your own business. Everybody starts in a different place. Gosh, when I started before there was Fiverr, there was Freelancer. And I'm going to say that --   Lau: I remember that.   Anne: And on Freelancer, it was honestly everybody was underbidding. Everybody was underbidding each other to get the job. What's the difference? Whether they call it Fiverr or Freelancer, start with an F. F word. That's what happened but yet when I was beginning, there wasn't a lot of places there wasn't a lot of opportunities. Look if we're gonna be viable businesses we need to have opportunities right for work and we need to know where those opportunities are and so if they show up in a place like Fiverr, that's an opportunity. Now you make the choice whether or not you go and and and act upon that opportunity.   Lau: And the coach in me says, listen, you know, as a business person, we're in business. We always talk about this like, mind your own business is right.   Anne: Yes, mind your own business.   Lau: Like, you want to set industry standards. Yes, you want to have fair working conditions and and good scale pay. That being said, we're still entrepreneurs slash solopreneurs. And we do have to make decisions, sometimes tough decisions, sometimes controversial decisions about how we put plates on the table, how we take care of our families or our rent, how we deal with everyday waking up and going after our business practices. Like we have to make individual decisions, so as you listen to the cacophony of voices that are out there that are making strong suggestions or they're giving their subjective advice, we have to do that. But we also have to come home and say, let me sift through all of that and let me make my own decisions about what works for my own career. I think that's important.   And I do want to say, one of the perceived negative sides of a Fiverr is the fact that you're not leading people in. They're coming in through their marketing and they're finding you. But they're also finding a lot of competitors to you on the same site.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: So you're in a pool on the same site with direct competitors. So you just have to know, what's my A-game? What makes me unique and artful? What separates my branding from their branding? What makes me get found? Because they're not coming in just finding you. They're finding potentially hundreds of others that are in your category or in your compartment. And you have to work a little harder to separate yourself from the in-house competition that they're finding.    Anne: And you know what's so interesting, too, is, I'm not the person to judge if you're on Fiverr or not. I always say, I'm not here to judge you if you're on Fiverr or you're not on Fiverr. What I am concerned about is that you price yourself what you know your worth and that you price yourself knowing your worth. And understanding that just because you're new or you're less experienced does not mean that you have to price yourself less.   Lau: Mm.   Anne: And so I always try to instill that you need to price yourself what you're worth.    Lau:  Well, It's an interesting topic --   Anne: It is, it is.   Lau: — because it's like any other, I call it a marketplace because --   Anne:  Yeah, it is.   Lau: — you may not find other competing businesses to Fiverr itself, but the businesses under the umbrella of Fiverr, many of them are competitive. So it's like you're on a marketplace, you're in a marketplace. It's like you're in a supermarket, right? Who else is on the shelf right next to you?   Anne: And you can price yourself low, whether you're on Fiverr or not. That's the thing. And I think that if you do that, then you are undervaluing yourself. And it can be, if you become good at it and you do a ton of volume work at a low price, then it will start to probably impact the industry. If you become known enough, where you do enough jobs, then it can start to impact the industry. If you are not doing it, somebody will. It always happens. And again, it's not under our control necessarily. I think there will always be bottom feeders, and always in any, any industry.    And so I think for you, you have to worry again, mind your own business, and worry about what you're charging and making sure that you're charging enough so that you are getting paid fairly. And it's not like, this is an online business, right, like it's a brick and mortar where we're doing unethical things, hiring labor that's not minimum. Now there is the argument that people get paid less than minimum wage. But minimum wage where?   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: Minimum wage in what country? Minimum wage. And I get that. I mean if you want to make a blanket statement in saying people get paid less than minimum wage. Well, first of all I've been offered less than minimum wage to do voiceover and I always choose to say no to that. Because for all the times that I've, and back in the day when I might have said, oh, I'll think about it. I mean, it's always better for me, and I think for most people, to just say no for less than minimum wage, because look, I didn't give up my job, you know, and to go into business for myself to get less than minimum wage.   Lau: Right.   Anne: And that time is better spent finding somebody who understands my value and values me at my fair rate.    Lau: You brought up a really, really important point, though. It's like we're always thinking of Fiverr from our point of view, which --   Anne: Mm-hmm.   Lau: — many of us are in the US or in North --   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: — America or UK, but people are on there from all over the world. And I know when I've hired a service off of Fiverr, you know, I've met amazing people from Sri Lanka and Philippines and on and on it goes, from Russia, I mean, there are artists from everywhere, creators from everywhere. So in one sense, if you come out of your perspective into a more global perspective, you're giving a lot of artists potential work, where they live and what their experiences are, they would never be able to get on their own. They would never have the money to market their business. They would never physically be able to go to a brick and mortar where they live. So it's a marketplace that is very important to a lot of people globally speaking that just would not have the placement opportunities that we have here in the states. It's an interesting way of looking at it.   And then of course, when I've hired someone, we may go offline, and then their rates completely change. Then we're in a total other stratosphere. We're no longer in the Fiverr territory. We're in this person's business territory. And then I will pay them what they think they're worth, and that changes, completely changes, and sometimes it actually gets very pricey. It gets very expensive and rightly so, because their services are worth a lot, oftentimes.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: So thinking of it as, I don't know how you would say it, but sort of a layered approach. It's not just, oh, they don't charge a lot of money, you're not paying people what they're worth. That's the meeting time, that's the launching place. And then where it goes from there is into a very different kind of bargaining and negotiation. You have to expect that too. No one I have met and worked with on Fiverr stays at that beginning rate. No one.   Anne: And again, I think that I think that you can off the bat — and I don't know I am not I'm not on Fiverr, and I have I've spent very little time on Fiverr. So it's interesting that we've chosen this. This is our topic today because --   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: — I don't have a lot of experience in fiber and I try not to to make statements, you know what I mean, about Fiverr not understanding the impact or having direct experience. I signed up so that I could look for, you know, different types of employees. I've never hired anybody off of Fiverr. However, I've had enough experiences. I understand the concept of Fiverr. I understand, you know, I talked to enough people that are on it, getting their experiences on it. And again I feel it really is one of those things where it is up to to the individual, whether they choose to be on Fiverr, to associate with that. For me, it was just one of those things where I didn't yet need another platform. I just didn't have time to really take part in it or --   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: — do what I needed to do. I don't know, honestly, Lau, if I have to start with a certain amount of money or if I have to work up to it and I didn't have time for that because thankfully my business is doing well. And so I don't have to rely on a platform like Fiverr, but boy, in the beginning, I did. I relied on those platforms, online casting platforms, not Fiverr, but to pick up clients and to get my name out there and to get experience so that I could ultimately be in a successful business where ultimately I didn't need it.   Lau: Right. And you're also having, well, you're having tremendous diversity on a platform like that, which I love because I have a vested interest in working with as much diversity as possible --   Anne: Mmm.   Lau: — giving people opportunities that they may not have.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: And also young people, like anyone under the age of 30, I consider young. Anyone under the age of 30, they don't oftentimes know where to go. They don't have the business practices. They don't have advisors, even if they are lucky enough to go to college and get an education. Even in university environments oftentimes, you're not getting business practices or where to go or any real placement. So you have to think back, for those of you listening in, that if you are 40 and up, where were you at 18? Where were you at 22? What were you thinking at 28? And I know a lot of us were thinking, help, I don't know even what questions to ask. Like, I do a graphic design business, I do a PR business, I create, you know, music for people. I don't know how to get clients. I'm a creative. I don't have that brain.    Anne: Sure.   Lau: So a marketplace like Fiverr was also filling a need of so many people that literally had no idea how to build a business. No idea at all in saying, hey, come in, we'll give you your start. Hopefully you'll stay with us, but if you don't, we'll give you your start, and you'll be able to make those connections all over the world that you want to make. And now that we're all online, you don't even need a brick and mortar in a lot of these professions. So you're all online. So you need the marketplace in order to do that.   Anne: Well, and of course, there was a hole in the marketplace. And honestly, it kind of makes me think about, well, what's going on with AI in the creative world? Not just synthetic voices, but we're talking art and writing and copywriting and the creative where AI tools have come out that can write things for you, that can generate art for you. I do believe that ultimately if you can use these as tools, and that includes online platforms, use them as tools to help grow your business, to grow --   Lau: That's right.   Anne: — what it is. And of course, now I'm not saying that people that steal art or AI that is stealing art is right. I believe this is evolving to a point where we will ultimately come up with standards, guidelines, and laws that will protect our rights --   Lau: Yes.   Anne: — protect our art, protect our writing. And it needs to happen. There needs to be this sense of injustice about it all, or this anger, or this stand up and kind of fight for what you believe in. And I believe in the end it will work out. I'm not going to stand here and stomp my feet if you're on Fiverr and say, you're ruining the industry for me. Because, honestly, I found my own industry. I've found my own clients and that's okay, that it works for my business. And again I like to always look at the positive thing ,the positive spin of everything. I think that Fiverr filled the need. If Fiverr didn't do it, it would be some other company that would have filled the need --   Lau: No question.   Anne: — for that.   Lau: Yeah, no question.   Anne: It's just the way business works here. And there needed to be an option for people that were looking for an effective voice. And I'm just going to say, those people, if they didn't go to Fiverr, they were probably going to one of the other platforms, like Upwork or whatever the other ones would be, so that they could get reasonably priced voiceover. Now, a lot of times, yes, do they value voiceover? It's a perception, right?   People value things in different ways. I think it's just a fact of life, right? They think, yes, this voice contributes to our brand. And as artists, we want to say, yes, our voice has an impact on your brand, and it can help sell for your brand, and it can help elevate your brand. But there are some people who don't see that value, right? And I'm not going to bother fighting those people, nor am I going to bother trying to get work from those people. Because they'll be the first ones to turn around and complain that they paid too much, and then give me tons of revision. And I've done that enough times in my business to know, right? I've accepted a low-ball offer, not too many times, but enough to know that they're usually the most trouble.    So the people that are coming to Fiverr, right? Their expectations, right? And their appreciation of the value may not be where we want it to be. And that's just something to understand, right? I mean, if we are businesses and we can educate our clients, our potential clients on our value and what we can do for them, then I don't think we have problems.   Lau: I agree, Anne, totally wholeheartedly. And I think that we as individuals and as business owners and as citizens of the world create our own morality. We really do. Like we create our own sphere of morality.   Anne: Oh, I like that.   Lau: And you really have to go with what your heart and soul is telling you. And you really have to do it with with an honest heart and a full heart. You're not going with mal-intention. You're not going to hurt someone. You're not going to slight anyone. Like you have to believe that in our industry the space is big enough that you're gaining clients. A lot of them have no level of knowledge of what a rate sheet is or what should be charged or what could be charged. So you're in essence, every time you meet a potential client, you're schooling them, you're teaching them, you're building your own morality base to say, okay, we're meeting at this level.    Listen, what's the difference between that and giving away a free hour of coaching? Or giving away, I'm gonna do like 50% off of class. I want to introduce my value to you. I want to build trust with you. I want you to have a little taste test of what we do. And if you love it and if you want to buy into that and invest into that, then the investment is going to change. We all know that.    It's the same with Fiverr. I want to give you a little taste test. Let me just give it to you for a very low rate. But if you really want to invest in this, then we're going to go to the rates that are established by my business, by me. Because you're already buying into the trust factor of working with me and what I'm offering you is filling the need. So it's very similar to that if you look at it in that way. There's tons and tons of free offers out there, tons and tons of discounts out there. It's ultimately to get buy-in to invest in what the full rate would be for that product or service.   Anne: That's an interesting way of looking at it. Yeah, you're going to buy in or you're going to get a sample. And you know, it's interesting because for me, I want to project my business as not being cheap, because there's a lot to be said, when we've talked about this before, with branding. I mean, there are certain things when I pay a low amount of money, I think, oh, I wonder what's wrong with that? Or I don't now, is that — and so for me, I've always elevated my business and my voice to be, you know, here's my rate and it's okay if you can't meet that. Thank you. That's okay. You know, I hope to work with you in the future, but that's okay. I will spend time with people who will value my rate. I have no bitterness. I have no, there's no malice. There's, you know, nothing like that. I don't know exactly the rules of Fiverr right now, forgive me for that. But I don't know if you have to start at a very low rate or if you have to like work your way up to a certain rate. I'm not sure what it is.   Lau: I don't think so, Anne.      Anne: Yeah, I think you can start at a reasonable rate.   Lau: When you go on the platform, you're going to see, like, let's say you're looking up a service of an attorney, or let's say you're looking up someone, a musician, you want them to create music for you. You may see a layered approach of, I provide this for this amount. But then if you want this, we're going to layer that on at this amount.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: Then we're going to provide it at this amount. So it isn't this flat, like, $5 or $10 thing.   Anne: Yeah, it's not $5.   Lau: It's very much a layered approach to what they do, and some of them start very high. They'll say this is what I'm worth, this is what it is. I'm on the platform that's known as a discount platform, but I'm not offering your discount. And that's what it is. So it's all over the place, it's all over the place.   Anne: And again, it's all about your business. And it's all about how you run your business.   Lau: It is.   Anne: And I truly believe, and I want this for every BOSS out there. I really, really do. I mean, gosh, guys, I've learned so much in my many years. And Lau, you too, I'm quite positive. I've learned so much about valuing my worth and understanding good clients to work with and knowing where to place myself. And if I need to negotiate a specific rate or a custom rate, which is what we do all the time, pretty much, for every single client, and it needs to be a little bit lower to fit a budget, and it's okay with me, and I know I'm going to get more work, or it'll be worth it in some other way outside of monetary value, that is up to me. That is my judgment. That is my business decision, and it is how I run my business. And I will tell you that being able to walk away and saying no, and I've said this multiple times, has given me the confidence to be able to understand my worth and be able to be successful in my business. And I think however you do that, whether you're on Fiverr, whether you're on another casting website, whether it gives you the confidence at some point that you're like, I don't need this anymore, or I can get my own clients -- I think it's all a stepping stone.    And I think it truly is what I want for all the BOSSes is that confidence. You're worthy of a fair price, whether, no matter what platform you're on. You're worthy of a fair price. And once you have that confidence and the confidence to walk away from a low ball price, right, or something that deems you as cheap, right, then your business will grow. And once your business grows, it's kind of like, it's just like a wonderful little snowball that just gathers the confidence and it gathers, you know, oh, this is great. Now I know what I'm worth, and my business can grow and I can be successful and I can put some money in the bank, right? And then if that if that next client says no or offers me something too low it's okay I can walk away. I've got the money in the bank. I'm able to pay the bills and boom.   Lau: That's right.   Anne: And that's what I want for all of you BOSSes out there, however you get there. Know, know, know your worth.   Lau: Mm-hmm, and it goes right into your submissions if you were with an agency. I'm an agent, and I can tell you, there are times we're working with a budget that is minuscule. It's like, oh my gosh, who could even work for this? And yet we have a lot of folks that want to book that job for many, many reasons. And then the next one that comes in is overpriced. They're giving us too much budget for it, and they don't realize it.   Anne: But Lau, is there ever really too much?   Lau: No, no, but like, if you see it in the same category, right next to each other, and you're like, Oh, my goodness, this one's offering $400 with no usage. And then this one's offering, you know, $2000 with three years' usage. You're like, oh my goodness, there isn't much difference between these two. And I know for a fact, I can tell everyone hands down, that I have many people who want to audition and want to submit for both. And I respect that.   Anne: Now as an agent, will you fight for higher rates?   Lau: Oh, always. I mean, that to us is a truism. We're always going to go back and forth on every single thing that comes in and goes, come on, we need another thousand on this. You can do, right? So we're always quoting high.   Anne: You're always fighting for the talent, yes.   Lau: That's not even to be discussed because that's our job. That's what we do.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And that's what we want to do. But we know, like as negotiators and anyone who's on that business, and we know where it stops. Like if you push just hard enough, you're going to lose that client. It's okay, sometimes we'll lose the battle, but we always want to win the war, so to speak.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: Is that we don't want to lose the client unless it's like completely insane.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: We want to keep the clients because we know we have a whole lot of people who still want to submit and work.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: They just want to work.   Anne: And I love that. I love that you said that, your experience as an agent, because, guys, agents go through it as well. I mean, you're fighting for fair compensation, for good rates. God, it always used to make me wonder, because people would be like, well, my agent shouldn't accept that rate. And I'm like, sometimes the agent has nothing to do with that rate, right? And like you just mentioned, there's a fine line between losing the client forever, right, because you can't push.   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: And understanding that. I mean, voice talent, sometimes I wonder where they get their assumptions from, right? You know what, you've got to understand this is a business, it's negotiation, and that, it happens. It does. Sometimes there is no budget.   Lau: I also don't want to play the omnipotent authority of what everyone could or should be doing. I want to be a conduit to getting people work, and that means at all different rates, at all different levels, at all different -- and those people need to take agency and to self-screen and say, I don't want to do that.   Anne: Exactly.   Lau: I say, great, you don't even have to let me know, just pass on it. That's okay. I don't make any judgment as to why you're doing it or why you're not doing it. I'm just running on an assumption, you're a professional talent, you want to be in the roster, and you want to be privy to what is coming through.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And that's all I feel. And to me, Fiverr is the same thing. If you want to be on the platform, you want to be privy to what's coming through, and then you make your own decisions and self-screen. To me, it's very, very much the same.   Anne: Excellent topic. The F word, guys. Remember, mind your own business and know your worth. And thank you, Lau, for an amazing discussion yet once again.   Lau: Awesome.   Anne: Ah, good stuff.   Lau: I loved it.   Anne: BOSSes, I want to take a moment and have you imagine a world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals, giving collectively and intentionally to create a world that they want to see. You can make a difference. 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn more. Also, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at IPDTL.com. Thank you so much, everyone. We love you. We'll see you next week.   Lau: See you next week!   Anne: Bye.   Lau: Bye!

In this episode, Anne & Lau share their experiences from a recent conference + discuss how to harness the momentum that comes from events, classes, and workshops. As voiceover artists working in home studios, staying connected and motivated is crucial. Discover how meaningful conversations and collaborations can propel your business forward. But it's not just about business…delve into building relationships beyond work and find support through mentors, coaches, and networks. Whether you're a seasoned pro or new to voiceover, tune in to ride the wave of momentum and elevate your success.   Transcript   Anne: All right. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm feeling super powerful today, by the way. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my VO BOSS co-host, Lau Lapides!   Lau: Hey everyone, good morning or good afternoon, wherever you are. (laughs)   Anne: Lau, I'm feeling powerful. Definitely business superpowers. And you know why?   Lau: So many reasons, but tell me.   Anne: Well, I am still riding the high of the last conference that we were both at, where I'm so excited that we met each other for the very first time in person, which was so, so wonderful. And I'll tell you, people ask me, so how was the conference? What was your biggest takeaway? Was it great? And I'm like, you know, I think the very best thing about this conference was the energy. The energy that I have received and gotten and been motivated by and inspired by. And I feel like it's time to take action, to move forward and grow, and really just run full speed ahead with my business. And I think we should talk about taking action.   Lau: Oh, I love that. I'm going to second that. I felt like I got out of there and I was like Rosie the Riveter. You know, I just felt like I wanted to jump on things. I wanted to follow up. I wanted to stay in touch, keep the momentum going. There was an energy and momentum in an event like this that's hard to craft and create completely on your own. Just that group synergy, that team love, that family feel, right? And you and I meeting, oh my!   Anne: I know!   Lau: Wonder Twin powers activate.   Anne: I know. I feel like we've known each other forever though. It was like, oh, there's Lau, but it was like, oh my God, it was in person. It was so, so wonderful. And I think there's that extra special juice that you get when you are in person with people that can really help to motivate you. And I know it is so hard for voice talent, as we are so isolated in our booths and working from home a lot of the time by ourselves. And now that we're just starting to get back out into the world, I feel, a little more carefully, but we're getting out there, which is just wonderful. I think even I didn't realize how much I missed, you know, that energy. And I, you know, gosh, I used to have events all the time at my home and people are like, are you going to bring them back? Are you going to bring them back? And I'm like, oh gosh, you know, thinking about putting on events, it's a lot of work. But I'll tell you what, you get so much out of it.   Lau: Oh, the energy is infectious too. It's like you can't be sad. Even if you're shy or introverted — I had a few clients say, oh, I didn't make it, I'd like to go next year, but I'm a little, I'm not great with crowds, I'm not a very social person. I said, that's okay, because guess what? There was a room for everyone. There was a space for everyone. And you could be in an X session with 12 people. You could be in a speaking room with 40 people. You could be in a private meeting with someone in the lounge. So in my mind, whether you're an extroverted introvert or an introverted extrovert, you could come and enjoy and maybe not sit in a ballroom of 700 if that makes you feel uncomfortable, right?   Anne: Absolutely. And then just the people that you've always wanted to meet, that you've been working with them online, maybe they're in your accountability group, maybe you've been posting and exchanging messages back and forth. And when you finally meet, you can just go to a private area and just motivate, inspire, and all the good stuff. And I really came away thinking, wow, that was, even more than Anne Ganguzza — who I've been to conferences over and over and over again, and it just has been so long. It was just so refreshing. And so I think it would be good to talk about, what do we do now? What do we do now with all of that good energy? And how do we take action to really move ahead and move forward? Because I think this is the time to do it.   Lau: Right? And there's a, to me, it's like surfing a wave. I'm not a surfer, but I can visualize what a surfer is doing. And there's a wave coming. As it's coming, you're preparing for it. And then you start riding it, which is our conference event. We're riding that wave. But then it starts to come in and starts to crash, right? And then it kind of turns into a minimal, almost nothing anymore wave. So you have to ride the wave as long as you can while people's energy is up and excited. I actually had people, I'm sure you did too, Anne, that said to me, Lau, I want to reconnect before my momentum goes or before my energy leaves me. So there is that magical moment that you want to capture your clients and your colleagues in. You don't want to miss that window of time.   Anne: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I think, and this, I want to just not make it so much, well, of course, we just came back from an in-person event, but also I want to talk about when you have even an online class or an online workshop or an online meeting, something that inspires and motivates you. I mean, we've been getting together week after week after week recording this podcast, and you inspire me, you motivate me. And I think the energy of each other, right? We really pump each other up. And I think that's the time when we're taking notes, we're brainstorming ideas. That's when we can really help each other to grow in our businesses and really feel fulfilled. It is such a tough thing to work on your own and not have that energy.    So I would say that even if you have a really great workout class -- you know, I do the VO Peeps online, because it's hard for me to do them now, of course, in person. And it allows people from all around the world to join. And I'll tell you what, there's energy that can be received from those sessions as well. And so I think that if you are taking notes and you're jotting things down and you have goals, I think this is now the time to make sure that you've written them down and read them again and then start a plan for achieving those goals, right?   Lau: Absolutely. And no way am I saying you have to be in person in order to get that kind of energy and juice from your people. You can be online, you could be at your accountability group, you could be in a coaching session, you could be in a rehearsal session with a buddy. But the point is as creatives, we are oftentimes better at creating and motivating and keeping our momentum alive when we are with others that are like-minded.   Anne: Yes.   Lau: And I always say, you know what my precious dad taught me in business, one of his business principles was, surround yourself in the room with people who are so much better than you. You should not be the smartest person in the room. Be the dullest person in the room. That way, you can challenge yourself, you can learn things, you can share growth, and you don't have to feel like you're spinning your wheels. None of us want to feel like we're getting lazy or we're not engaged or we're spinning our wheels. That's why I love these conferences, because I feel like it's for every level. Someone coming in early entry, someone who's super advanced, who's been doing it for 15 years, they all belong. They all can find their peeps in there and they can learn and grow from them.   Anne: One other thing that I got from this too is that in-person energy. And of course, if you can, I always say, if you can have in-person meetups, I think they're absolutely worthwhile. There's something to be said about -- there's people that I hadn't seen in so long, and the past few years has been tough on social media. And I am the first to say it has been tough. I am all over social media because I'm selling events to people on social media and organizing audition demolitions and things like that. And so I am a lot, I am very much into social media.    I have been, in terms of engaging in social media, I've stepped back just a little bit outside of here's my event and I hope you guys can come and posting what I hope to be inspiring and motivational messages. But I have noticed that if I'm reading social media a lot, there's certain times that it becomes not inspirational or motivational and a little bit toxic, or what I perceive to be a little bit self-serving. Okay? But yet when I was in the room with maybe the same person or people that I have thought, well, maybe they're self-serving or what is that post all about? You really get to feel like, you know what? I get it now, I see. What might've seemed self-serving to me then became, oh, well, they're really feeling good about themselves. And it really just softened and gentler and more, I'm going to say, emotional, heart to heart. I had many, many times during this conference when I was like close to tears, just by being motivated and inspired by people.   Lau: Yeah, and I think we've got those cues that we don't often get, sometimes we even miss on Zoom, like the nonverbals, the energy, even just like the scent of someone. It sounds weird, but you've got the scent, the pheromones, the olfactory, which gives you memories. When you've got someone's energy right next to you, and they're looking into your eyes, and they're shaking their head and they're drinking coffee with you, there's a sensibility about that, that just as human beings, we need to have in our life to support all of our online work. It can't just be online.    We have to also have that real intimate time with a real social distance, you know, so that we get that sense that -- I don't know if it's a group, a team, a village. I don't know what to call it, but it's, I'm in humanity. I'm part of humanity and I'm part of my industry's humanity. I'm part of something that's larger than myself. It's almost like it's almost like the military. My son's in the military, and it's like, why do you want to do that? Oh, because you're a part of something that is much larger than you are, that has a common goal in mind. And that's what our industry is, where all of a sudden we remember we're part of a much larger mosaic of people and creatives that that give us more meaning as to why every day we do what we do.   Anne: Yeah. And I don't know if you were there and you heard the Team Challenge project at the very end. It was people coming together to create a commercial for, I think it was the local ASPCA or a local animal shelter. Yeah. And just people coming together and doing amazing things. And I think that when we come together, we can do amazing things.   So when we are talking about taking action, BOSSes, I would say, you know, do what you can to get yourselves an accountability group or a group of peers that you are meeting with, and make it a point to meet with them, you know, once a week, once a month, whatever that is, just to maybe go over what are some goals, what are some issues you're trying to work out. And as I've always said, I like to write things down because when I write them down, it then cements it in my memory. It gives me something that I can go back and look at and something that I can say, all right, keep on top of so that I can do what I need to do to achieve that goal. So for me, it would be get yourself a group of peers that can be accountability buddies, or even just having coffee once a week and just discussing the industry. Having a podcast together. I feel like, right?    Lau: Who knows? Who knows?   Anne: You know, really anything like that and write it down, write down actions that you want to take and goals that you have. Lau, you've got any other tips that can help you to really take action on this energy that we're getting?   Lau: Absolutely, don't limit yourself when you do find your people or your different groups of people that you're going to frequent and be a part of. Don't limit yourself to only professional talk and only business talk. I tend to fall into this problem myself, just because I love my business, I'm really passionate, I always want to talk about it. But when you're together, make sure you, you know, observe moments of each other's lives. What is the family doing? Or, wow, that outfit.    Anne and I, before we get on air, we're talking about our makeup and our outfits and our jewelry and our hair and our because that's part of who we are as people. You know it's part of our fun. It's part of our fun time. So don't forget the fun, and part of the fun is talking about something or doing about something that's not business related. It may be, you know, maybe you guys go out bowling together or maybe you guys talk about animals together or whatever because that really helps bond and cement your relationships through things that matter to you alongside your business, but not only your business, right?   Anne: Yeah. And a lot of times, you know, when it comes to networking with people, that's really where the hook is. You know, not so much the business part of it, but when you are connecting with other people, are those personal things, those things that you have in common. I had a student who, you know, who brought me a gift of a stuffed kitty. Oh, my God, the cutest thing, because who doesn't know that I love cats? And some other wonderful person that brought me an amazing pair of red boots and a wonderful piece of jewelry that says VO BOSS in case you guys haven't noticed, with my birthstone. My very favorite, Lau, thank you so much for that. But knowing that, right? And so now I've got something here that I can wear that can inspire me.    And I'm not saying you have to get everybody something to wear, but that personal touch, you can carry it with you. And also, I'm gonna say, because, again, our businesses are so personal, it's our voice, it's our personality that we're bringing to a read that story-tells, brings things to life, that the better you know a person, even outside of their technical prowess of being able to voice something effectively --    I know for me, when I help brand people, or I help select, what would be a great piece of copy for this person? And I know what they're passionate about. I know what their likes and their dislikes are. But I will tell you, it's always a great way to meet someone, right, when you're not initially attacking them with, you know, oh, I'm a voice artist. Can you hire me? In reality, what can I do for you rather than, you know, hire me, hire me, hire me? So I think, you know, always meeting people and approaching these groups with, what can I do to help you, is, I think, a wonderful way to approach that. And I think that's going to help you be more motivated and more inspired. I know for me, helping others inspires and motivates me. Just to want to do better and do more.   Lau: I would even add in, come up with an idea every now and then. It doesn't have to be a major breakthrough that you're sharing with everyone. It's just like a little mini idea. Like, for instance, you're a branding goddess, so you might have a quick little tip on branding that you're going to bring to your group, you're going to bring to your team, you're going to even bring to a conference where you're speaking on and say, let me lay this one on you, you guys. No one would think about this as a branding tool that also develops your rapport and deepens your relationship.   That's part of your expertise that you can give to people. That may be non-tangible, you're not spending money on it, it's just coming from your creative mind, that it's a gift that keeps on giving, literally, because someone could run with that ball and say, wow, Anne taught me this, Lau taught me this, now I'm using it in my business, now I'm doing whatever. That's where we want to go. We want to give value, give education, and give ideas at times too. Not your most precious ideas of your business. I'm not inferring you should give all that away. I'm just saying there's always these tips of value that we're looking to do, whether we're doing a podcast or we're doing a blog or we're doing whatever, right? That's what we're looking to do. And that in itself helps people bond to you because they see it's coming from an honest place.   Anne: Yeah, yeah, I think really that's key, is honesty and authenticity. And also it doesn't always have to be about voiceover, guys. Your support and motivation and inspiration can work into every aspect of your group's lives or the person that you're trying to help and move forward. You know, this is such a crazy industry and it's so volatile sometimes, and when you're first starting out, and it's hard to get your wheels spinning and see success. I think that's where a lot of times motivation and inspiration is very helpful. I know I've got some students that I mentor that sometimes it doesn't, it's not about voiceover. It's about how am I going to be able to continue to pursue what I love and start to see success while being able to pay the bills, right? So there has to be something practical there.   And so a lot of times, you know, my advice may or may not be like, okay, pursue voiceover, pursue voiceover. Be like, look, we need a parallel path. And so you can do this because you've got these skills. And so why not think about a side hustle in this or think about this, or I know it's hard, don't worry — you know, that kind of thing. A lot of times when talent will get frustrated and say, I'm just not seeing any success, you know, I don't know what else to do, and they're at their lowest point. I mean, here's where an accountability group, you know, can really help to inspire and motivate or a good coach.   Lau: And maybe you even need to dig deeper and have a support group. Accountability groups do offer support by nature, but maybe you need something even deeper and more emotionally or psychologically driven. Like you gotta find out what you need to be happy, balanced, and successful. And that has been a theme that's been running throughout our week post this event, Anne, is like, I loved this particular event because it validated my thoughts that I don't have to listen to everyone or listen to noise to be successful. I can also listen to myself and my own voice. And so get that coach, get that support group, get that friend in place that reminds you — we always need those reminders — you're good enough. You're working hard on what you do. You're doing the due diligence. And you're on a track that suits you, like just keeping you on track, right?   Anne: Absolutely, absolutely. And I think, I mean, we're our own worst enemies, aren't we? I mean, and even people such as myself, and Lau, I'm sure you would agree that even though we've been in the business, sometimes we even have our, we need our people too. We have our questions about, you know, and we need that guide. I need guidance every once in a while saying, Anne, so you're on the right path, it's okay. It's going to be fine, don't worry about it, and that will help to reel me in.    But I think the whole writing the energy, taking action, writing notes, right, setting goals, and continually revisiting that and revisiting your people, whether it be online, whether it be in person, or a combination of both. I mean, I think both is amazing. And, you know, it's always like, people talk about that discussion about, online learning, do you like online learning or in person, which is more effective, right? And I think honestly, if you can have a combination of both, right? Because obviously I voice a lot for some online learning places. And so, but I've always been a fan of in person communication and in person growth and working and classes and sessions that are in person because you get a whole lot out of that. Yeah.   Lau: I got one more for the road. Here's my last goody for the road. My last goody is -- and this is my specialty, I always think of myself as an idea person. I always say I missed my calling, Anne. I should have worked for some advertising agency -- before you step in with your group, whether it's a conference or an accountability group, before you step in, have two or three ideas ready to go of how you can work with people. I naturally do that because that's what energizes me. So before, for instance, before I podcast with Anne in the morning, I sit with my coffee and my smooth bossa nova jazz music. And I come up with not just helpful themes for the podcast itself, but how can Anne and I work together? How can we better each other's and grow each other's businesses? How can we energize and stir the pot of what we're doing? So I can come in and say, I'm excited. I have an idea. I have an idea. People love that, Anne.   And I don't see that as much. I don't know if you do, but when I get together with people, they're working on their stuff, which is great. But very rarely do I say, I have an idea. Let's do this together. Let's make this happen. Let's form a group. Only a very small minority of people think in that way. You think in that way. I think in that way. I want the listeners to start thinking in that way. Create.   Anne: Yes. I love that you brought that up because I cannot tell you the amount of, the benefits that I have derived from working with other people and teaming up, teaming together with people on multiple things.   Lau: Invaluable.   Anne: Invaluable, teaming up.    Lau: Invaluable, and it spirals too.    Anne: Yeah, it does.   Lau: It's like my hair in the heat. It just keeps going up and up and up. It just spirals out of control.    Anne: Yeah, partnering.   Lau: It's like, it's that rabbit hole where you just go down and down and down and down, and you just keep coming up with more thoughts, more ideas. And that doesn't mean that they're all gonna pan out or they're all gonna be successful. It means you keep the cobwebs out of your brain and you keep your motors going so that as a business owner, someone could come to you and say, hey, I need ideas for this. You say, I don't know, and I'm not sure. Let me think about it. And they're like, no, I got ideas for you. Here we go, here's the first one. Here's the second one, here's the third one.   Anne: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Think of how you can team up with someone to do something amazing. I really think that that can help to also, as you go along with your own independent business of voiceover, you can be contributing greatly to, let's say, becoming a resource for the community or a community. It doesn't have to be the voiceover community, But gosh, there's so much talent out there in our industry. I mean, we could do just about anything. You know, it doesn't have to be contained for voiceover.    Think of people that you know and have gotten to know and that would be great at doing a lot of different things. I mean, probably every one of the people that I work with that's on my team, I have come to them because they've had a special skill that I don't have that I need and that I want and that I'm happy to pay them for because they help me to grow my business. And, you know, it could be a skill that isn't voiceover, right, but skill that could be video editing, audio, whatever it is, it doesn't have to be voiceover specific. Even team leading or groups that they're a part of that we can be like a referral network for each other. So it's really incredible the things that you can do when you team up and you ride on that energy and they can help you take action in your business.    So I ask all of you BOSSes to really just consider, consider partnering up with someone, getting your peeps together in a motivational, you know, accountability group and working together and writing things down and really taking action, taking action on the high and the motivation that you've gotten from in-person networking or online networking, whatever that is.   Lau: Yes, and finally, know the difference between the people that you can grow with, that are growth people and people that are not in that sphere. It doesn't mean they're not creative or they're not energized. It means they're in their own little private Idaho. They're good with what they're doing. They're not as interested in helping you or them grow specifically. They're happy with where they're at. Just kind of know the difference. Don't have the same expectations of every person. That was something a financial adviser I heard say and that kind of rocked my world. They said know who your growth people are, and she was specifically talking to the team that you're growing. Like some people are great for now but they're not going to help you grow. Other people are going to come in and they're growth people know the difference.   Anne: Growth people, if they're part of your team, by the way, you have to, you have to, you have to motivate your growth people appropriately, okay? As Gary Vaynerchuk says, you know, no one's gonna be as excited about your business as you. However, when there is motivation and there's inspiration and there's -- like I say, you always have to be like, what can I do to help you, right? When there's something in it for them as well, right? And it's obvious that you're not just about, oh, you're my employee, let me pay you. ‘Cause I don't have a lot of money, let me not, let me pay you the cheapest amount that I possibly can. My, you know, my team members, I mean, I pay them.    Because I think of myself, like, how is it that they're gonna promote me, right, in my business, when I'm not paying them what they're worth, or if I don't think they're worthy enough to pay a decent salary? And that's part of the motivation, that as well as, you know, constantly encouraging, referring, doing what I can to help them move their own careers forward. And sometimes that means letting them go too. Do you know what I mean? Because they've outgrown me. And that's okay. I mean, I love that actually.   Lau: Yeah, and you need to be their cheerleader, but they also need to be your cheerleader. So you want to train cheerleaders, in essence, to be growing one another. And if the growth is stopping and everything's dying or stagnant or going the wrong way, then you may not need to be together anymore. You still stay connected and be a great associate and always leave things on a really great note. So you could come to back together if you want to come back together. But know who your growth people are.    Anne: I love that. Know, if you take away anything guys, know who your growth people are and really take action on that inspiration, motivation that you get from your growth people, absolutely. Lau, thank you so much.   Lau: My pleasure, as always.   Anne: Yeah, so wonderful as always to chat with you about all these wonderful topics for BOSSes. And BOSSes, I am going to say that as individuals, as we were just talking about, it can seem difficult to make a big impact. But I tell you what, as a group, as we just saw, as we've been talking about all podcast, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never even thought possible. Visit 100VoicesWhoCare.org to learn how and learn more. So big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. I love ipDTL. You guys can also love ipDTL and be BOSSes. Find out more at ipDTL.com. All right, guys. Have a great week. We'll see you next week. Bye.   Lau: Bye!

Anne & Gillian continue their discussion on Boss Equipment Necessities, providing even more valuable insights on what essential audio equipment you need in your booth. They discuss the importance of selecting studio headphones that offer both comfort and accuracy. They also delve into the convenience and limitations of USB microphones, as well as providing a comparison of costs and quality of audio interfaces. Additionally, they share tips on where to get tech support and test gear in person. You definitely don't want to miss this conversation...   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to bring back to the show today creative freelancer, audio engineer, musician Gillian Pelkonen for another episode in our BOSS audio series.    Gillian: Hello (laughs).    Anne: Hey, Gillian.    Gillian: How's it going?    Anne: It's going great. So we've had some really intense conversations about our home studios. First of all, talking about where to locate your home studio in your home, where good place is, a little bit about sound absorption. Then we had a really cool, interesting episode, I think, on all the equipment that people don't think about that's required to run our voiceover business. Now we're gonna talk about all the obvious ones that I think people always, they love to talk about these, and --   Gillian: This is the exciting stuff.    Anne: I think the other stuff is exciting. I think actually people don't get excited enough about the other kind of technologies. So --   Gillian: I mean, (laughs), we know you're gonna marry the internet.    Anne: Yes.    Gillian: I have a spiritual connection to unboxing Apple products.    Anne: Yes, there you go.    Gillian: But the air quotes exciting stuff that everyone loves to harp on. Yes.    Anne: I dare say that I have a spiritual connection to my headphones, (laughs) to my headphones, and, and I know that people are always asking me, what are your headphones that you wear? Because I love wearing colorful headphones because it's part of my brand. And I actually have like all different colors of headphones right here with me.    Gillian: Wow.    Anne: I've got a lovely deeper blue here.    Gillian: You guys, if you're not watching, go to YouTube right now and you gotta see this.    Anne: Then we've got the royal blue here, which I love, and then of course I've got black. I actually have an alternate pair of the red ones and okay. So I think, can we talk about headphones (laughs)?    Gilliann: Yeah. I mean, let's start.   Anne: I've already started.    Gillian: So we talked computer, you have your computer, you have your internet connection, you have your isolated space, and it's soundproofed to whatever fits your budget and what you need right now to be isolated.    Anne: And your internet connection and website.    Gillian: Oh yes.    Anne: Right?    Gillian: Yes. Oh, and website. Yes.    Anne: And website.    Gillian: That is definitely important. Headphones. So important because you can't, you can't be playing out loud while you're recording (laughs).    Anne: Now here's the thing, there's reasons why we wear headphones. Okay? So what are the primary reasons you wear headphones, Gillian?    Gillian: Well, just in my everyday life, there's the convenience of being able to listen to whatever I want and to be able to hear that. But for recording, when you're recording voice, if you are playing out loud what you are recording, you will get feedback. And I don't think you will on the scale of a small computer, but there are a few studios that I've worked in, and when I was very new and prone to making mistakes -- obviously continue to make mistakes and learn from them — but when we had big speakers and we were recording in the same room, you definitely get a nice ear cleaning with that high pitch feedback. Because having an open source, you're DAW, armed and ready to record, and that -- it just creates a loop of sound, if you think about it, what's going into the mic, coming outta the speaker, into the mic, outta the speaker, and that just ruins it.    Anne: So well, okay. So there's a big debate in the voiceover world about, do you need headphones while recording? Because there's a lot of people that say you do not. It helps you to sound more natural. Okay? And of course you don't wanna have your speakers on either or your monitors.    Gillian: Oh yeah. That's what I'm thinking of. But this is interesting.    Anne: Yeah. So do you have your headphones on while you're recording? Because a lot of times, it's distracting listening to yourself, what you sound like in your headphones. So for me, okay — some people adopt the whole, I'm not gonna wear my headphones at all because it makes me sound more natural. I'm not listening to what I sound like in my ears. Some people do one ear on, one ear off to help that as well while they're recording. And some people wear them. Now I, years ago, started wearing them because I had a lot of sound outside of my studio. And I needed to be able to put my headphones on to hear if it was going to come through in the recording. And some things like my naked ears couldn't hear like the vibration of the truck that was a mile away coming down the road, and somehow vibrationally it came up through my studio. And the jackhammer that was maybe not right outside my door, but down the road because they were constructing new homes.    So for a long time I got used to wearing my headphones just to make sure I could step in the studio to make sure that I couldn't hear those sounds coming through my microphone. And then I just continued to wear them. Now I've done both, take them off when I'm recording or keep them on. A lot of times, if you think of it this way, (laughs), and this is not a popular opinion, I will have my headphones on while I'm recording because I feel that whatever you hear in your headphones is just you amplified. And if you are an accomplished actor that can act like you, without paying attention to what you sound like in your headphones, you can wear headphones.    And for me it's something that, it's kind of on a day-to-day basis. I'll probably wear my headphones more often than not, just because I've been doing this for a very long time, and all I do every day when I coach is tell people not to listen to what they sound like and to just be themselves. And so I wear my headphones. Plus I do a ton of editing, I do a ton of coaching, and so I need to, and I don't have monitors, number one for the very technical reason is honestly I just don't have space. I don't have space to put a nice pair of monitors on my desk. So I wear my headphones when I edit.    And so headphones to me have to be comfortable. And they have to be studio headphones of course. And that should be a given. Anybody, any BOSSes out there that are just starting in the industry, make sure they're studio headphones, and they're not any other type of headphones that's gonna add more base or more treble or that adds prettiness to it. You just need studio headphones so you can hear the raw output.    Gillian: Yeah, it's definitely an interesting conversation. I think my advice is gonna be the same as always. My advice is just try 'em all and see what works. I personally, when I am singing, I do one ear on, one ear off, mostly for pitch, because how you sound in your head, it's all relative and different. I think that there are some things to be concerned about. Obviously if there is extraneous noise coming on your recording, you wanna be aware of that. But if you're connecting to a client, really if there's an engineer on the session, they should catch that. Like, that's my job when I'm working with talent. Another issue, sometimes I hear the movement of headphones, but I've never really asked talents what they're doing. And maybe it's putting them on and off, but there are a lot of moments functionally during a session when a director is gonna wanna get your attention. And so if you're just rocking without headphones, that's something to just consider.    Anne: Yeah. You'll have to hear them. And you just said something, I don't mean to interrupt, but you just said something that made me think the physical sound of your headphones. Believe it or not, if like -- these headphones, the exterior is, there's some plastic components here. As they get older, believe it or not, if I move my head, because we're very physical as voice actors behind on the mic, as I move my head, they make noise. And that noise comes in through my recording. And I, I remember for the longest time there was this tiny little click, and I was like, I don't have a mouth click. Where's that coming from? It was coming from my headphones. And so for me, I found a way to, I actually had bought a new pair of headphones so that they didn't -- they weren't really squeaking, but they were making plasticy noises. And I know that's not a technical term, but it's a noise where like if I do this (clacking nails on headphones) --   Gillian: Yeah.   Anne: — you can hear that. It wouldn't be that loud, but it would be something similar to that. And so --   Gillian: Interesting.    Anne: Yeah. For those of you guys listening to that, I was simply just squeezing the headphone earpiece with the headpiece together --   Gillian: To get that plasticy --   Anne: To get that plasticy sound.   Gillian: — noise sound. Well, there's another thing that I've noticed with headphones that's important to note -- just this is more function than which headphones to get. But, and it could be 'cause people are taking them off. But a lot of times I'll be working with the talent's audio from a session we just did, and through their recording I can hear everyone else talking. And this doesn't really happen during the recording, but I can hear myself slating things not recorded. So I don't know, if you're taking your headphones off and you're putting them down, you gotta think about, okay, if someone starts talking or if there's other noises, those are gonna get directly into the mic. Or if your headphones are too loud, there's gonna be too much bleed. So just things to think about when we're talking about headphones.    Anne: Two good points. I wanna actually go back on that, right? If you put your headphones down and obviously you're not hearing (laughs) other things, right, other noises can come through them. And also you mentioned bleed. Bleed is important because right now I'm really, really close to my microphone. And depending on the volume that you have your headphones turned up to, and I'm a little older so I might need a little higher volume. And so sometimes you have to be careful that the sound coming through your headphones doesn't bleed back through your mic. And for that reason I have closed headphones. And that's why I recommend closed headphones for most voice actors, if that's the case. If you're gonna be sitting out just doing editing all the time, I don't think they need to be closed backed. If you're just gonna use 'emfor editing.    Gillian: If you're watching us, I have open back headphones. But I just got these recently, these are like the Sennheisers, I think the HD 600s. That's what I thought. And I have these mostly for mixing and I I listen through them 'cause they're really comfortable. But my closed headphones, I also have AudioTechnicas. They were my first headphones, like pro headphones; they're amazing. The pair that I had was under a $100. I've had 'em for years. They're amazing. So whoever is saying that you need really expensive headphones for amazing sound, you don't. There's lower models that are great and then you can upgrade. There's a whole range of AudioTechnicas that get more precise or, or just have different features that you can invest in if you wanna spend more. But there should be no barrier to getting, I think they're $70 or something like that, which --   Anne: Well, I'll have to tell you about mine that have the color. because people are always asking me. And I do have, I do have a studio gear page off of AnneGanguzza.com and as well as the VO BOSS page studio gear that I recommend. And by the way, I don't put anything on this page that I don't use or have not owned. And I will say that I love AudioTechnica headphones as well. And of course before this turns into an AudioTechnica podcast -- which it's amazing, there's lots of great headphones out there. The one thing that I love about AudioTechnicas is for me they're super comfortable. I literally wear my headphones when I'm on coaching days and I'm coaching eight hours at a shot. I have them on my head eight hours. Because again, like I said, I don't have monitors in my room and plus my husband works upstairs, and so I wanna be able to keep things at a minimum. And so they have to be super comfortable. I have to be able to hear the talent, right, to be able to direct them.    So for me, they are amazing. They're a little more than $100 because of the color, the special additions they are the MX 50s and in whatever color -- I don't believe they make the red anymore, but if you're lucky you can find them somewhere, somewhere out there. There'll be an extra pair that somebody has that's still new in the package. I've bought three pairs of red 'cause red is discontinued. My royal blue has been discontinued. Every year they come out with a new color. And so every year I find it necessary to buy another color just because I'm on the camera a lot and I love -- and they make me happy. Right? If you're gonna have on your head for a long time, they should make you happy.   Gillian: And comfortable, most important.   Anne: Yeah, and they should be comfortable.   Gillian: -- don't need a headache.    Anne: — be accurate as well. Right? So for that reason, the AudioTechnics are my faves, and I do own a pair of Paradynamics. I've owned the Sony, oh gosh, I think it was the 7507s, I believe. And the one thing that I didn't love about the Sonys, although I love the sound, was the actual cable that connects was a twisted cable. And what happened is they never traveled well. They became entangled within themselves. And if you've ever had a coiled wire get tangled in itself, and you try to pull it apart, it's horrible. It just gets twisted onto itself. And so I love the AudioTechnicas 'cause they always have the straight cable that you can use and it doesn't get twisty. And that may seem like a very silly reason to love the AudioTechnicas, but that's one of many reasons why I love that. But it's a viable reason because the twisty turn coiled cables, they're not fun to get them untangled when they get tangled, especially when you travel with them and you're trying to wrap them around --   Gillian: No.   Anne: — the headphones.   Gillian: Definitely not. And something to think about when we're talking, all of these things are essentials. And I'll just tell a brief, brief story, but the other day I was doing a session with a voice talent, and we were having all of these issues. I still don't know -- I was on the session, but I wasn't the head engineer of it. So I don't know exactly what happened. But we think that between when we were testing with the talent to when we pulled the client in, their headphones broke because they magically could not hear us.    Anne: Oh wow.    Gillian: And you need to have an extra pair because you can't be on a session without having an extra pair of headphones. It's super — and I'm sure we'll say, and I know, Anne, you've said before in the past, you need backups of your backups. But definitely even if you have your splurge pair and you have a less expensive pair just to use in case of an emergency, there could be a chance that you're on a session, and in the middle it breaks, and you can't continue the session without the pair of headphones. So just don't forget about having some, a little insurance on your sound.    Anne: Yeah. And you know that, it's interesting that you mentioned that, and I talk about headphones so much because when I'm connecting with students through ipDTL -- and this would be just like me, I would be the studio and they would be connecting through Source Connect or ipDTL — you have to have headphones to avoid that feedback. when you're connecting via those methods. And simply earbuds are not the best because sometimes they don't fit your ear properly. There's bleedthrough and honestly closed back headphones are probably the best for any kind of studio session you're going to have.    And I just say yes, I totally agree with you, Gillian, about the backup. Because I have had people who like all of a sudden they're like, oh, I can't hear you. And I'll be like, do you have another pair of headphones? And at that point if you even have a backup like set of EarPods works but in a pinch. But really have an extra set of headphones in case that happens. Because the last thing you want is for you to lose connectivity with your client to be able to hear what they're saying and to do your job. I mean it is part of your job. So have a backup, and honestly most headphones are not expensive. I, I'm going to tell you the AudioTechnicnas, even these, the new versions that they come out with are about 160 some-odd-dollars. The navy blue ones I just bought were like $169. So they're not tremendously expensive at all. And I know you can get some fabulous head phones for less than $100 for $99. I think that's what my Sonys were that I bought. So well worth the investment.    So in terms of headphones, make sure that they're studio headphones. Make sure -- I like to say close back if you're gonna be using them for any kind of recording at all 'cause you don't want the bleedthrough. If you're gonna sit there and edit all day, yeah, maybe open back or others will work fine for you. Make sure they're comfortable for your head. And especially if you wear glasses 'cause you don't want them to push in on the glasses and then have the glasses give you a headache. That's the last thing.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: All right.    Gillian: Okay. Should we lightning round a little bit the rest of some of the other things that we might need?    Anne: Yes.    Gillian: Because I know, I know what I'm thinking.    Anne: Microphone.    Gillian: Microphone. Yes. And we'll do a whole episode on microphones about the different types and and what kind you might need. I personally always say large diaphragm condensers for voice actors. There are amazing -- you know, everyone knows the TLM 103 that's upwards of $1000. There's also amazing mics that if you're a beginner, and you're not ready to invest that much money, that will not sound exactly the same but will be a large diaphragm condenser mic and will do the job, will make you sound great.    Anne: Absolutely. I used an NT1, a Rode NT1 for at least six years of my career full-time before I bought a 416. Actually I bought the TLM 103 and then I bought a 416 as well. So now I have both of those in my studio. But guess what? Also sitting on my desk here, I have a USB AudioTechnica AT 2020, and that works for some of my other connections. Believe it or not, that works for my Clubhouse connections because my Club Deck software doesn't like my audio interface so I have to use a USB mic and it makes me sound a whole lot better. And so those USB mics, they come in handy for lots of applications. Maybe not for your professional recording but for other applications that help enhance the sound of your voice.    Gillian: Yeah. And here's the -- I'm not going to say that people shouldn't use USB mics. I mean the audio engineer and me, always, I love an interface and a mic just because. It's so funny, I wrote a whole blog post on this so if you're interested you can go read my blog about the core differences between like the functionality of what a USB mic or like a USB and interface does, and the pros and cons of both, 'cause there's pros and cons of both. When you have the interface, there's more things to know, there's more things that can go wrong. There's just —   Anne: One more thing in the chain    Gillian: — sensitivity. Yeah, exactly. But if you are interested and you want a USB mic, there's definitely options that will make you sound as good as you need to sound to start out. And I don't wanna get on here and say that you can't book a job or get started in voiceover using a USB mic, because there's so many uses for it. And once you upgrade, if you choose to upgrade to an interfacing mic, then you have that other option to use for things like, like --   Anne: Any mic.   Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: That's what I love about. I think really if you've got, I say for any voice talent in a pinch if you have to, you can use a USB, if you've got a good recording environment, in a pinch, but it's not recommended. I would say even if you're traveling, I've tried it all. I do have, I've got a great Tula mic, which is a USB mic and it's amazing. So if I have a good space, you know, my little Tula can hook up USB, and I can get a decent audition. I wouldn't necessarily use it for any type of work that you wanna send to your client, broadcast type work, but in a pinch, like absolutely.    But for every day kind of voiceover I recommend condenser with an audio interface. And again, you don't have to have the $1000 mic. There's lots of great mics and there's so many discussion rooms and forums on what mic should I get? But I also have recommendations that I think work. It really depends on your voice and your comfort level, and work with a vendor that you can send it back if you don't love it.    Gillian: So important that you can either -- I mean I know in big cities -- I'm not entirely sure ‘cause I haven't done this in a while, but I know I'm in Guitar Center, I went there all the time growing up to play the instruments, and I know that they have a mic room where you can try stuff. I know that -- I'm pretty sure it'd B and H in New York City, you can try mics there, but I love Sweetwater. You can chat with agents there, you can talk to them. I'm pretty sure they have a great return policy because if you get the mic and you're investing all this money and you don't love it for your voice, even though everyone on the forums is saying it's top VO mic, don't keep it. Find something that makes you sound great because no one in the end is gonna know what mic you're using. They're just gonna know how you sound.    Anne: Well, exactly. And I also think though it's worth mentioning that if you get a mic and you want an assessment of what you sound like, Gillian, my goodness, like what you do all the time, the sound assessments, right?    Gillian: Yes.    Anne: Gillian can absolutely give you an assessment of how your voice sounds with that particular mic in your environment. I think there's a lot of things at play here. It's your environment and also the mic, and there will be a difference. So for me, I can say, you know what, I like the way this mic makes me sound, but I haven't recorded a file with it and sent it to somebody. Because again, sometimes if you're just starting, it's very difficult. You don't necessarily have an ear yet. Sending it to someone like Gillian is very important, who is, you know, this is what Gillian does; she's an audio engineer. She listens to sounds all the time and every day so she can make an accurate assessment and also tell you if this suits your voice or this doesn't suit your voice.    And I really believe that you also have to be happy with it. And don't forget, there's some people who mistakenly think that, well, I can use this mic and then I can process my voice to make it sound even better. And in reality as a voice actor, that's not what we wanna do. I mean, we simply wanna be able to give the cleanest recording that we can, and maybe our mic should, like what sorts of things should mics do for our voice? You know what I mean? They shouldn't change our voice, but they should enhance our voice.    Gillian: Yeah, they should -- I think I said this in the first episode we did together, but microphones are microscopes picking up your voice. And so every mic has a different capsule in it. It has a different way of processing, whether you're using dynamic mic or ribbon mic, all the different types of mics, they all react differently to sound. And so some people love singing on ribbon mics because it's quieter, it's more sensitive. I have a super cardioid condenser microphone that I, I love using on my voice and I tried the U87, all these other things. So it's really about, and this is a difficult answer because it's like you need to find what works for you because the mic that makes Anne sound great might not make me sound great. And all the processing in the world — obviously you can EQ it and change it a little bit, but really it's like finding a pair of jeans. Like you gotta find one that fits you and makes you look and feel your best. Maybe not look but jean analogy sound like you.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: You know?    Anne: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I don't think that there's any mic that will make you sound better than you. I mean your whole goal is really to make you sound the best that you can sound. And there's lots of mics -- and again, you could have a really like inexpensive mic in a great environment and sound amazing. You can also have a very expensive mic in a poor environment and sound horrible. I remember back in the day before I really had secured my environment sounding as best as it could, I purchased a shotgun mic, and it wasn't a 416, but I purchased one of the knockoffs and I actually hated it. I hated the way it made my voice sound. But I found that once I got the 416 and I had my environment, I love the way it sounds now.    And it's really interesting because before I was like, well I held off getting a -- it's why I got the TLM 103. And for me now I realize for my voice, the TLM 103 is a little bit of a brighter sound. And the 416 will pick up a little more of the bass sound, and that's typically true for most voices. But again, until you try it, you're not gonna really know, and it really has to be up to you. And again I think sending sound audio files to engineers who have the ear, who this is what they do, like Gillian, is really worth an investment to get the overall assessment on yes, this mic is good for you. Or also it will help you to determine if maybe (laughs) like how many times, I think we talked about this, Gillian, somebody might have had the installation of their mic backwards, and they were speaking into the back of the mic versus the front of the mic.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: A lot of times people don't sidedress their mic, right? They're speaking right into it. So there's a lot of plosive. So there's a lot of things that, Gillian, you can help talent to assess with their sound. And most people think it might be a mic problem, it may not be a mic problem.    Gillian: Yeah. Sometimes it's really simple stuff. Your room sounds really loud because your gain is up too high and you're not close enough to the mic. So it's picking up everything. Or it's on omni when it should be on cardioid, or you're facing the wrong way. There's so many things that someone listening could hear if you have a trained ear. Before we go, I know we have to go very soon, but don't forget your pop filter for your plosives.    Anne: Ah yes.    Gillian: So important.    Anne: Oh my gosh.    Gillian: I know you have like the pop filter shield sort of thing. That's what it looks like. Looks like you have, if you're using an interfacing mic, you need an XLR cable to connect the two. So important 'cause how are you gonna get from mic to interface from point to the other? So you get your mic, you get your interface, you don't have an XLR cable, you can't work. A mic stand. So important. What are you gonna do do without a mic stand? (laughs) You can't hold it.    Anne: Well, exactly. You really can't. And I think that again, more equipment besides your mic stand, I actually prefer --and this is just me, I always tell my students for me and my studio, I like the boom arms that can be mounted on the wall. Because a mic stand to me, I can't tell you how many times I've heard talent like trip over the tripod-like feet.    Gillian: Oh my gosh. Lemme show you my cute little stand.    Anne: With their mic. Yeah.    Gillian: I have this like, everyone watching, this like cute little baby stand that I just put on my desk. I think that those are really smart, the ones that clip right on. This little guy just sits on my desk and I can take 'em wherever.    Anne: Okay. Well, that's if you're sitting at a desk. But if you're standing and you have one of those tripod-like standing mic stands…    Gillian: They're hard to maneuver. Yeah.    Anne: They're hard. They're hard to fit in a lot of studios. I used to trip over mine all the time, so I basically have boom arms that I mount on the wall in my studio. They save a lot of space at my feet when you don't have a ton of space. And also, like you said, you can't hold it. And then we do need to mention the most important thing from the mic, right, that goes into your audio interface, your audio interfaces, and then everybody has questions. What's the best audio interface? Now I have been through the gamut of audio interfaces, but the main job of your audio interface is to translate the analog signal that comes from your microphone into a digital signal before it goes into the computer. Correct, Gillian?    Gillian: That's what it does. And typically it does both. It does the analog to digital conversion and then most audio interfaces have a headphone jack. So really we monitor off our computers, but you can monitor off of there where it goes digital right back to analog for you to listen to.    Anne: Oh right. Absolutely. I wasn't even thinking of that. You're right, because that's where my headphones are plugged in all the time. I started, gosh, I started with the Personas. And I'm trying to remember, I think I probably at one time had a Scarlet Focusrite, which I don't love those interfaces -- and I know we had a conversation in one of our podcasts about interfaces. I then, when I bought my studio here, I have a Mackey because I was intending to be able to do talk back to people in this booth to rent this booth. And ended up having a technical issue with that, which I sent it, it got fixed, it was under warranty that is now my backup interface.    And then I purchased an Apollo. And my Apollo, I have a mostly love relationship with my Apollo because of the plug-ins that work with it, which I absolutely love. But however, when we talked in our last episode about computer and keeping your computer up to date, well the (laughs) latest version of Mac OS is not up to date with the latest version of the Apollo. So you just have to make sure that you are aware of what's happening. The one that I recommend in terms of like a really great price, and I think works for the majority of people is the Steinberg UR22. And that is like about a hundred and — I wanna say $170. And I had one that I used for years, and it was just a workhorse and I love it. And that does all of the conversion, versus Gillian, if I'm correct, in saying with a USB mic, the conversion happens at the base of the microphone, right? So converting analog to digital. So there's a chip there that's doing that conversion.    Gillian: The biggest difference between the two is that when you use an interface, the mic just gets to be a mic, but within the USB mic it's all happening. And usually you'll see a little headphone jack too. It does A to D and then D back to A conversion.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: You pay less and you get everything is gonna be slightly lower quality because you're paying for --   Anne: You gotta fit into a tiny, little --   Gillian: — a microphone — all of the conversion, all of those things in one small device versus, you know, separating them out. So that's kind of where don't use USB mic comes from just because you can get higher quality with the separate.   Anne: You have so many more choices. Right? Because you can have a Focusrite or a Steinberg or an Apollo.   Gillian: You get to mix and match.   Anne: And you can have whatever microphone you want (laughs) connecting up to it.    Gillian: The other thing that I love about that is that there's room to upgrade. So let's say you wanna splurge on a really expensive mic and you're, just, you know, oh, I wanna start with this interface. Or vice versa. You wanna splurge on an Apollo for $1000, but you wanna use a $200 microphone and then say I'm gonna wait a couple years and then upgrade. Personally I've used Apollos, I've used UAD. I kind of struggle with the software issue even though I've used the plugins. They're awesome. I like Focusrite stuff. I like the Scarlets. I think it's great. I think voice actors really only need one input, possibly two. If you wanna have two mics set up just to switch between, you know, a shotgun and a large diaphragm condenser, if you want 'em at the same time. I like Apogee as well. The Apogee Solo and the Duet, those are great too. Those work really well. So those are my faves.    Anne: I'll just disagree with you on the Scarlet only because I've just had a lot of voice talent that have had bad luck, and I think mostly it's -- and I myself have thrown away two of them. And I think mostly a few years back, I think they used a bad chip set. I'm not sure what it was. Or they created these bundles where you got headphones, microphone, and interface all in the same package. And I think they used lower quality parts. And what would happen is voice actors would find, all of a sudden they'd get some sort of a noise or hissing, and nobody knew what it was, and it ended up being the interface. So for me that just kind of, I tossed that one to the side and said, I'm not gonna recommend that one anymore. But Scarlet, typically Focusrite had an impeccable reputation there for a while until I ran into bad luck with it past few years.    I think if you buy a bundled package, (laughs) meaning from a manufacturer or something, especially at Costco, as much as I love Costco, right, there are packages made, packages that are made for Costco. Sometimes they use cheaper parts in those, and sometimes you'll find that the quality won't last as long. Sometimes though you'll buy stuff at Costco, not necessary technical equipment, but you'll find things at Costco that's better (laughs) than you would find at other stores. But that's just my personal experience.    Gillian: I see. I've never had any bad experiences with Focusrite. I've used the larger hardware as well, the professional studio models of stuff. And those sound amazing. I think I've had a lot of friends and myself who've used the Scarlet interfaces and haven't had issues. So, that's my experience. And it's so funny, I've been wondering why people don't recommend bundles because I wouldn't buy audio gear from Costco (laughs). But there's a few places, like Sweetwater is my favorite place to buy gear.   Anne: Yeah, but they'll bundle individual pieces together. Now, I'm talking about manufacturers that create whole bundled sets of things together.    Gillian: Well, Sweetwater is awesome. And B and H, they also have some great bundles. And with Sweetwater specifically, if there's a bundle you like, but there's a piece of gear you don't like, you can reach out to them personally and swap it around and get a discount from sort of buying in bulk. And they have some pre-made stuff so that if someone was trying to set up their home studio, didn't know where to start, it gives you a little place to get started.    Anne: And one thing I will say before we go, one thing that I love about Sweetwater is you get tech support. Oh my God, that is like unheard of these days. Like if you don't know, if you're having a problem installing the interface, you can call them up and get help. And that to me is invaluable.    Gillian: They're amazing,    Anne: They're wonderful to work with. So.   Gillian: Yeah. Very knowledgeable. I love Sweetwater. It's my favorite place to put my money. I have a few friends that work there as well, and all of their employees are highly trained and they know --   Anne: Very educated --   Gillian: — about the gear. It's like a prerequisite to work there.    Anne: Wow. We could go on forever, but, uh…   Gillian: We could.    Anne: Good stuff, Gillian, thank you so much.    Gillian: Thank you. And for anybody who is interested to get your audio assessed by me, I know we did a few episodes about it, but if you missed them, you can just head to my website, GillwiththeG.com. It'll, I'll be linked down here and I have some audio assessments. I have a little free course on, on setting up your home studio and a few blog posts or a bunch of blog posts just talking about different audio things if you're interested in learning more.    Anne: Awesome guys.    Gillian: So hungry for knowledge, (laughs).   Anne: And Gillian is a BOSS. Otherwise, she wouldn't be on the BOSS — she wouldn't be, she wouldn't be on the BOSS podcast. Anyways guys, here's a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to commit. You guys -- oh, and a big shout-out, before I forget, to ipDTL, who is our sponsor. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne is joined by special guest, Ian Russell, a multi-award-winning voice actor. They discuss his career in the voice over industry, including his journey to success. They talk about the importance of social media and authenticity in character creation. He advises aspiring voiceover actors to be careful not to violate non-disclosure agreements and to use social media to support their profiles. Anne and Ian also discuss the importance of respecting specified ethnicities and the limitations of casting notices. They highlight that authenticity and believability are essential in video game casting, and that having an acting background is a serious advantage. Tune in to hear the full conversation.    Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: All right. Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to bring very special guest Ian Russell to the podcast. Hey Ian. Yay.   Ian: Hey, Anne.   Anne: welcome. For those of you BOSSes out there, we'll tell you a little bit about Ian, and then he's gonna continue on telling us about his journey, he is a, a multi-award winning, seasoned voice actor working in commercial, corporate, video games, audiobooks. His voice can be heard for companies including Coca-Cola, MasterCard, Nestle, Heineken, Club Med, Phillips, and a bunch more. He was the recipient of the One Voice Male Voice of the Year 2020 award. And also in that year, he was also best character performance. Is that correct?   Ian: Animation, yeah.   Anne: And then continuing in 2021, he won Gaming Best Performance for One Voice Awards. And in 2022, the SOVAS Outstanding International Audio Description, Museums and Cultural Sites. Wow. That is fantastic. Ian, so honored to have you here on the show to talk about your journey and your wisdom. So , let's start.   Ian: Well, good luck with that.   Anne: Well, let's start telling people about your journey. How did you get into voiceover, a little bit about yourself and how you got into voiceover.   Ian: It's a long and winding road, which is a Beatles reference, but the first ever voiceover I ever, ever did was for a radio station in Liverpool. And it was a friend of mine worked at the radio station, and they had a pre-recorded interview for Paul McCartney when he bought and set up the Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts in Liverpool. It was his old school. And rather than having a boring interview where it was just Paul McCartney and some radio guy , he asked me. I was, we were in a local acting thing together, and he asked me to be the voice of Paul McCartney's teacher.   Anne: Wow.   Ian: When Paul McCartney was a kid. So we linked the questions, you know, and it  was like, oh yes, that McCartney he was always playing around with a guitar. He'll never amount anything. So it was that kind of -- we made it funny. I didn't even know what voiceover was, but I did it anyway. And it was fun. I didn't get paid or anything. I was doing it for a mate, but I still have the magnetic cassette tape, shows how long ago it was.   Anne: Yep. There you go. .   Ian: And then 30 years go by, and I get married, and my wife's stumbling around for what she can buy me. And we, because you know --   Anne: What happened 30 years though? That was a long time.   Ian: Oh, sorry. I, I went off and got a real job. I was, I was working in sales and sales management in the northwest of England and in Belgium and Holland and in and around Oxford.   Anne: So International for sure. Yeah.   Ian: Yeah. That's a whole other story, which we could get into another time. But that would use up our 30 minutes, would be nothing left . So anyway, so my wife's like, oh, well what do I buy him for Christmas this year? And I had done a bit of sort of community theater stuff as a young man, just explained with the Paul McCartney thing. And so she found a one day introduction to voiceover.   Anne: Uh-huh.   Ian: In London. It's a place called the Show Reel. And she bought me that for Christmas 2012. It's 10 years almost to the day.   Anne: Wow. Yeah.   Ian: And then two years later, we've had the credit crunch and the bank -- I was working for a bank at the time and they were trying to offload people, and I had to reapply for my own job multiple times. And in the end I'm like, I volunteer as tribute . Let me go, you know, I'm done here. I'm older than all these young guys. I don't want to be rushing around half of the UK seeing multimillionaires coming home at night, barely seeing my kids, writing reports 'til midnight, and then doing the same rinse and repeat tomorrow. I'll have a heart attack and die. Let me go. And two years later, they eventually let me go. And so my wife's American and we said, well, what are we gonna do now? ? Well, let's sell everything and move to America. Be near my dad, says my wife. So that's what we did.   Anne: I love that. Let's do it.   Ian: And I said, well, what am I, what am I gonna do?   Anne: Let's sell everything and move.   Ian: I'll give that voiceover thing a go. And I went to the guy in London and I said, does anybody get hired for this? And he went, yeah. And I said, would anybody hire me? And he went, I don't see why not. And that was the ringing endorsement that I had to come off and start. So 2014 I started properly, I would say.   Anne: Wow. Wow. And so when you started, what was it that -- I assume you, you got coaching, you got a demo, and then you started working, and so you started working and were successful in which genres?   Ian: I think I'm a product of the internet age. You know, I live in the metaphorical middle of nowhere. And everything I do is via the internet, pretty much. So I started probably the way a lot of people start. I didn't know anybody and I didn't know anything. I had some experience, life experience that helps for sure, the sales and having done a bit of community theater and all that. But I knew no one and I knew nothing. So I started searching on the internet, and I paid money down to online casting and, and started throwing mud at the wall. And I think in that market you do a lot of explainers. You do a lot of corporate. You do a lot of e-learning, e-sort of things that, that sort of thing.   Anne: And of course in the States now, you know, that accent of yours doesn't hurt you. I had a very good friend when I started and she was hired all the time for e-learning. Because I think for us listening, and you gotta have some sort of interesting -- like an American accent is, we hear it all the time. But a British accent might be something that, oh, that makes it more interesting. And so she was high in demand for e-learning and, and those explainers and corporate things. And she was always so wonderfully like natural and conversational about it. And it was just a pleasure to listen to her all the time. And I remember thinking, gosh, I wanna aspire to be that relaxed and that friendly in my voiceovers. And so I can totally see where that just, it lends it. It's also a very large market. And so everybody kind of gets there, and it's a good, good place to start off. And I know a lot of students that I work with, they start off in corporate or e-learning.   Ian: Yeah. There's masses of it. And it's relatively easy to find.   Anne: Exactly.   Ian: You might not get the best rate, but it's relatively easy to find.   Anne: Now, you won these awards, but these awards were not for corporate or e-learning. It was for gaming and character performance. And so let's talk about, 'cause I know when people start out, they're very concerned about you know, what's my niche? Like, where do I start and how do I know what I'm good at? You evolved into becoming an award-winning voice talent in gaming and characters.   Ian: Yeah, I know.   Anne: So let's talk about that.   Ian: How does that happen?   Anne: Yeah. How does that happen?   Ian: I'm gonna say I got lucky, but we all know that that's hard work meets preparation and all of that. But in 2015, so a year after I'd started, I booked a role in a significant video game called Payday 2. And the role is utterly -- it's this South African mercenary. He speaks like that, he's Locke, his name is Locke. And I have been performing Locke for Starbury Studios for seven years now.   Anne: Oh wow.   Ian: And it was the performance of Locke that won me the video game award last year. And we're still making content. And at the end of this year, we have Payday 3 coming up.   Anne: Ooh. Get ready, BOSSes.   Ian: And so there's a lot of chatter around who's gonna be in Payday 3. You know what it's like with a lot of --   Anne: NDAs.   Ian: -- casting for voiceover. It's --   Anne: You can't tell --   Ian: -- NDAs -- Well, well, if I knew something, I'd be able to tell you, but voice over casting often happens right at the end. So nothing, I can't say anything. I don't know anything. So.   Anne: So seven years.   Ian: I'm like a mushroom.   Anne: Wow.   Ian: Yeah. So, so that was my first video game thing. And I think a lot of younger folk, they're growing up now with video games and animation and it's a very aspirational genre for people to get into. And I think I got one, and I'll keep the story very short, but Locke, the character, has his own Twitter account, which now has almost 12,000 followers.   Anne: Do you have input into that account?   Ian: It's mine.   Anne: Okay. Okay.   Ian: It's all mine.   Anne: Now, was that something that maybe was requested of you through an agent or the company or --   Ian: No.   Anne: -- you just created it? That's a very interesting marketing um   Ian: Well, it was suggested to me because I went on a charity stream as Locke for Payday, and the guys that were running it said, you might want to set up a separate account because you don't want your personal account flooded with teenage boys --   Anne: Yeah, that makes sense.   Ian: -- swearing at you. Frankly.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Ian: Asking you about Locke, you know, what's your favorite color, that kind of thing. So I set up a separate Twitter account for him then; that was 2017-ish. And that, that's kind of just grown from there. And I don't just use it for Locke. I use it for Locke. But I, all my video game stuff I promote on there because they're all video game players. So they're interested.   Anne: I love that I'm talking to you about this right now because I wanna know, is the content monitored at all by the game company or the people that hire you at all? Or if you were to say something that maybe wouldn't be appropriate for your character, I would imagine that that's kind of a line that you walk.   Ian: For sure, it is. I'm pretty sure there have been several occasions where I've written something, and I've had the wherewithal to go, no, don't do that. Don't say that. That would be silly . The only thing that Starbury said is, because they own the character, they own the IP of the character, that I can't monetize it for myself. I have run charity fundraisers and things like that, but if I'm gonna do anything out of the ordinary, I go through them and say, hey, I'm thinking about about this; what do you think? I don't think they've ever said, no.   Anne: That's something that's so interesting for those BOSSes out there that are thinking about getting into video games or character animation. I mean, there really becomes -- it can have a celebrity attached to it, and that becomes more than just voicing. Right? That is voicing. And then also it becomes a marketing effort. It becomes something that is outside of your voiceover persona that is of concern, I would think, for you to make sure that you're not gonna say the wrong thing or make sure you're not gonna do something that spoils any new things coming out or disturbs any NDAs.   Ian: Yeah. I just basically assume that everything I've ever done is under NDA until it's public.   Anne: That's very wise, very wise.   Ian: I really don't, you know. It's just, it's easier to do that than to go, oh, I've been cast, I can't...   Anne: I think no matter what we do, we should consider that, even doing a lot of corporate work and e-learning, it really all should be considered.   Ian: It is one of the challenges with video games, because whilst we get cast often towards the end of the process, it can be months before the game is actually shipped. And I have got the list, but I've got games coming out this year with my voice in them, and I am burning, burning up with desire to tell people because I am so excited about it. And I just can't. And it's just really, really one of the hard things, you know, that you have to bury that.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah. So you got hired for this one game, it became something --   Ian: Yes. So the thing about the Twitter was, so a little while after that I had auditioned for a role in a Warhammer game called Inquisitor Martyr for one of the -- there were only gonna be three player characters. It was one of the player characters. And I got shortlisted, and they asked me for a second audition and I did that. And then they came back and they said, okay, it's down to two people, so can you do a third audition? I'm like, I almost didn't want to know. You know, me or the other guy. And if I don't get it, I know the other guy got it. And I'm like, I was so close. But , what I did say was, look, you must make the right casting choice for your game. But please know that I have a Twitter account with 10,000 followers who are all game players. And I promote any game I'm in on that Twitter account. So I just want you to know that.   Anne: I like that.   Ian: Don't let that influence your casting decision in any way at all, but know that I've got it.   Anne: Hey, that 27 years in sales, I think it served you well. I think it served you well. That's fantastic. I love that.   Ian: So I booked that. I don't know that, that's why I would like to think it was just because of my awesome acting talent. But it taught me a lesson that you can use these things to help support your profile, particularly in a high profile thing like animation or like games. You see like the anime guys that are doing that; they're always at cons promoting themselves. And you know that the anime companies are loving that. Because that sells more anime. And the video games is the same. So.   Anne: Now would you say that your award also was something you were able to use as a marketing for more characters and more work?   Ian: I'm gonna put it the other way around. I can't draw a direct line to -- I won this award in August last year in video games, and then suddenly I get cast in a lot of games. What I think happens, this is what I think happens, a lot of casters in video games are younger people. I mean, there are older ones as well, but they're very tech savvy. And I think that you --they get their auditions in, and if you get shortlisted, and you may not know you've been shortlisted, but they're gonna create a shortlist, and I think they pop over onto Instagram or onto Twitter --   Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely.   Ian: Right?   Anne: And look at your profiles and --   Ian: They wanna, who's, who is this guy? Is he an umpti or whatever. And they see the awards and they see the interaction with a game community from my case. And they go, oh, he knows what he's doing. He's obviously done it before. You know, and you can say that til you're blue in the face in a pitch proposal, but nobody reads them, I don't think. But when they see it on Instagram or they see it on Twitter, it makes a difference.   Anne: Yeah. It's validation for them.   Ian: Yeah. It's that whole trust.   Anne: Right? That maybe they're picking somebody that has that little bit of trust. Yep. That you've got these experience.   Ian: Well, and you think how many -- as, as the game studios get bigger, how many multimillions of pounds they've got invested in a game. And it has to ship successfully, otherwise the company goes pop.   Anne: Absolutely.   Ian: That narrative story to a two or three talent generally telling the story is a big decision for them. So I do think they check. I have no evidence directly for it, but I absolutely think they check.   Anne: Especially I think as a lead character. Right? I mean, there's more responsibility than just the voicing of it, because like I said, there's a persona attached to it, that can be attached to it, and the potential for that character to be able to sell more game, new releases of games.   Ian: I kind of figure if I can help sell 10 or 20 or 30 copies of the game, I'm getting out someway towards paying my own fee.   Anne: Now -- right? Now, lemme ask you though, in terms of, let's say compensation for games, right? What are your thoughts about that? I mean, do voices for big games get paid better? There's really no royalties, residuals, like that kinda sucks.   Ian: No. It does. Yeah. If I was being paid union royalties for Payday 2, I'd be a wealthier man.   Anne: Yeah.   Ian: It's just the, that's the way it is, Anne. I don't have any control over it. So all I can do is negotiate the best fee I think I can for each individual one. But that's the other thing you've got, if you like AAA games at the top of the feeding frenzy, and they can afford to pay a great deal more. And at the bottom, you've got one guy with a 40-watt light bulb who's making a game, and he wants to get a voice in it, and he just doesn't have the budget. So you have to ask yourself then, is this a game that will further my profile? Do I want my -- you almost, you talk about the celebrity element of it. Do I want my name attached to this game?   Anne: Absolutely. Yeah.   Ian: And there are games I want attached. There are a lot of games out there that the content is marginal, should we say? Not safe for work is the phrase. . And there is no value to me as a talent in attaching my name to a game like that, because it would impact -- if I wanna be in a big AAA adventure game, I think it taints a little bit, my profile. So I, there are games that I will avoid and I will ask. There's one game I'm in and they have a safe for work version and they have a non-safe work version. And I said, uh, nothing to -- if you want this character in both versions, count me out. But they said, no, we can just write you into this one. So, they did that.   Anne: That's great. Look at that. That, you know, and that's interesting that you bring up these things that I never would've thought of, because obviously I'm not doing video games, but I love that you brought that up.   Ian: But you could, Anne.   Anne: Well, I could if I wanted to. I mean, you did it. So what made you, I'm gonna say, what made you audition for that first game? Did somebody suggest it to you? Did they say, oh, we're looking --   Ian: The Payday one? No, it was an open audition. It said South African mercenary.   Anne: And you said, oh, I can do that. Right?   Ian: Yeah, absolutely. I was so naive that I thought I could do everything.   Anne: So you said, I could do that.   Ian: Yeah, I can do that.   Anne: Okay. So I have to tell you my little story.   Ian: They cast me so great.   Anne: That's fantastic. I have to tell you my story. My story was a long time ago, like when I first started, I was on one of the pay-to-plays and they had a audition out, and they said it was for a phone system and it was for a British accent. And I thought, well, I can do that. I was naive , and I got it. And literally I worked for that company for 10 years. And it wasn't until like I actually spoke to somebody on the phone, because we had communicated, got jobs from them all the time onto this. And then it became not a cool thing to do because what accent am I doing? And it started to become that sort of a thing. Well, you're not a native. They didn't know. They said, oh my God, we thought you were native --   Ian: Oh, really?   Anne: -- British. And, and it was because I just, I didn't know any better, and I made the mistake. I didn't read that where it said they wanted native. And I said, oh, I can do that. I'll give it a shot. I'll throw my audition in. And I got it. And they employed me for a good 10 years before it was like, oh, now Anne, we just need your English. You know? Not, not your British. So, but it's so interesting that you kind of on a whim just did it. And I think that really speaks to having the confidence to kind of just put yourself out there, and even for things that you don't think you're good at, because they think when people get into this industry in the beginning, they're so concerned about, oh my God, I think I should do this, and I'm no good at character, or I'm no good at -- and I think that really, you don't really know until you try.   Ian: Well, let me share another quick story for you.   Anne: Sure.   Ian: So I auditioned for another game called Road Redemption, which is a motorcycle game. And you drive along the road and you have an iron stick and you're trying to hit other people off their motorbikes. And I auditioned with a sort of a Ray Wins, yeah. Come over, we all gonna hit you with a steel bat, you know, that sort of thing. And I thought, yeah, that'll work. And they decided that they liked my take on the character. So we got together on Skype . Who remembers Skype? And we are chatting, there's three of them, and there's me here. And they're like, what's your Australian accent like? Alright, where's that, right out of left field.   Anne: Where'd that come from?   Ian: Where'd that come from? And he said, because it's this sort of Mad Max kind of feel to the game. And they said, you know, what's your, and I said, very bad. I said, any Australian will immediately notice. You know, I can put another prawn on a barbie kind of thing. But everybody will, they will know, he's not from Australia anyway. So then we're on Skype and you hear tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. And they've sent me a line on the, in the chat. Read that in your Australian accent, whatever it was. Hey, I'm gonna hit you in me iron bar, mate, you know, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Read that one in your Australian -- yeah, this shrimp's gonna really get you, you know, anyway. And at the end of it, they said, yeah, okay, we're gonna use you for the game. And I said, okay, do you want the Ray Winston thing or do you want this? Oh, we want the Australian thing. Okay. Well, I, like I said, they went, yeah, but Australia's such a small market for us. We're not worried about that.   Anne: We're not worried that people in Australia are gonna complain . Well, it's true.   Ian: Right. And Locke's the same thing with his South African. And where it led me to in my head was video games, even if they're sort of set in an earth-like environment, are fiction. And I think a lot of game makers now particularly, but certainly back then as well, the acting performance of the character outweighs --   Anne: Is more important.   Ian: -- the absolute accuracy of a given accent.   Anne: Very interesting. Especially now because now it's a casting thing. Are they casting a native UK or a native Australian? And I think that we are all in a spot, like are we going to audition for that? Ian: Well, with that rider of there are accent issues and there are ethnicity issues.   Anne: Yes. Absolutely.   Ian: You know, I absolutely would not put myself forward for a British SWANA or MENA or -- I can't say African American because that's American.   Anne: Yeah, no, I get, I get that.   Ian: British Black, I think.   Anne: I think if they're, if they're specifying -- yes. If they're specifying ethnicity, then I think, yeah, absolutely. It's something that we respect.   Ian: PGM, person of global majority.   Anne: Yep. Absolutely.   Ian: That's, that, that works well for me. So there are things that I just will walk past now that maybe 10 years ago would've been acceptable.   Anne: Sure. Yeah. Things have definitely changed over the past just a few years.   Ian: This could be quite controversial, but I've seen casters ask for a minority ethnicity, and then in the sides it makes reference to, I don't know, America or Great Britain or whatever. And you're like, the ethnicity of of this character does not match the character in the script that you are portraying. And I fear a little bit, what's been the motivation for that?   Anne: You know what, interestingly enough, I know that you say that that's a very inter -- I had that with an e-learning, believe it or not, they had the characters, it was a character based e-learning, and they were all different ethnicities. And mine was a mixed ethnicity, but then they said, don't perform it in any kind of accent. And so I thought, well what is that there for then? You know what I mean? And that was a few years back now. I would kind of hope that if they're specifying ethnicity, that they try really hard to get that so that there can be authentic and genuine. Yeah.   Ian: Yeah. And at the top end, some casting directors at the top of the market will challenge that sort of thing. They'll go back to the studio, they're in a strong enough position to go back to the studio and go, really? Does that work? Are you sure? And they will challenge that if you like the mass market, often the person hiring the voice and directing the voice is a part of the studio itself. So. Johnny at the back, go and get a voice actor, will you, for this character. I think a lot of that is kind of left to the voice actor to work out for themselves. If you have an any kind of an acting background, and you are auditioning for particularly indie video games, you are already streets ahead because the guys in the studios have never hired anyone before. They don't know who to hire really. It's kind of like, we'll know it when we hear it kind of thing. So if you can make a performance, if you can create a character that's believable within the universe of the game, you are already streets ahead.   Anne: It's very interesting that you bring up the casting directors for video games. And you know, it's not necessarily, I think, the talent agents of today that you think of for commercial and broadcast. For video games, you do have to make it authentic and believable. And these people may only be casting for their game, and maybe they've never cast for another game, or they don't have a lot of experience . But that's a great point. And so I think that even more so now, the marketing that you employed, having followers on Twitter, maybe putting your awards on your website so that it's out there and it's known, that definitely has an impact. Because your casting directors may or may not be as experienced as somebody who's casting like 10 commercials a day. Right? That's all they do. That they listen for voices and they cast, whereas games, they're so into their game that they know their characters, and they're listening for just that character to come alive, what they believe the character is like.   Ian: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. I had a beautiful testimonial from an indie guy, he put on Twitter, it was on Twitter, his casting notice. And he said, the character is 60 and British from the southwest of England, and he's got early signs of dementia. And he said, but there aren't many older British actors. You know, I've always found it a struggle to cast older actors. So when I wrote to him, I said, , I am 60.   Anne: I'm old. .   Ian: So anyway, so I got cast of that surprising, surprise me though. He actually cast me as a second character that he was struggling. I said to him, you said you were struggling to cast this. Have you've got anything else that you're struggling to cast? So he sent me, said, yes, I'm struggling to cast this. And he sent it to me, and I thought, I can have a go at that. So I sent it back and I said, do you mean something like this? So I didn't put it as though I was auditioning. I just said, do you mean something like this? And he went, oh great. Was that you? And I went, yes. He went, okay, yeah, you are hired.   Anne: I love it. I love it.   Ian: I booked two characters. But he said, you might just, it's a real kind of bigging myself up, but you might be, he said, the best actor I've ever auditioned.   Anne: Awesome.   Ian: And I'm like, aww.   Anne: What a wonderful, what a wonderful compliment.   Ian: Oh. That is on my Instagram. If you check -- care to go.   Anne: Yeah. There you go. . So I love that.   Ian: Oh, and I know, what did I wanted to say about, you talked about casting directors. So Bianca Shuttling, who's one of the big casting directors in LA, she goes looking on Instagram. She's very open about that. If she's not got someone in her little pool of people where she goes, she gets -- she doesn't go to agents, she goes to Instagram.   Anne: Wow, there you go.   Ian: That's where she goes.   Anne: There you go. I love that.   Ian: There, you learnt it -- you heard it third or fourth here. .   Anne: So let me say, because I really think that there's that business savvy that you have, which, BOSSes out there, do not discount the value of being business savvy and marketing savvy. Because I think that that's gonna get you opportunities that otherwise you would not already have. But I do wanna address the acting part of it because you don't just get these roles over and over again if you're not a great actor. So what do you attribute your acting prowess? Have you, just because you've been doing it for years, have you been working with coaches or what do you attribute it to?   Ian: I owe it all to my mum.   Anne: Ah, okay. Well, there you go. , I'd like to thank my mom and my .   Ian: Well, yeah. But in this case, my mom was a very prolific community actress herself.   Anne: Got it.   Ian: So my first living memory is a smell, and it's not the smell of the grease pain. It's that kind of musty damp wood smell that you get backstage in an old theater. And I have the image that follows it, but -- and I must have been maybe around two or three years old. There's no words involved in this memory. So I basically grew up --   Anne: In the theater.   Ian: -- in the backstage. Yeah. One of those things. So it was happening all around me all the time. And I did try and become a proper professional actor as a young man, but I couldn't figure out how to earn money doing it . So.   Anne: Same thing when you start off doing voice acting, right? It's kind of hard sometimes. How do I even get money? How do I even get started? Yeah.   Ian: Yeah, yeah. It took me another 27 years of sales and management --   Anne: Well, there's your overnight success. Right? And I love telling that to people. They're like, you're so successful. Like, how did you do it? And people think it's overnight, but I think obviously you've evolved so nicely into your success, and it well, well deserved.   Ian: And now it pays two -- pays me and I hired -- my wife works for me now.   Anne: There you go.   Ian: So that Christmas present 10 years ago has employed both of us now.   Anne: Yeah. So that 10 year overnight success in voiceover, I mean actually, actually it was a little less than that.   Ian: Yeah, that's interesting. Because I got my first nomination, and I was --   Anne: In 2020, right?   Ian: -- 2019, I got nominated. I didn't win anything that year, but I thought I was ahead of the curve at that point. You know, and then it all went a bit quieter after that. But the last two years, so years nine and ten, or if you count it from 2014, years seven and eight, really have my career, iIt just looks entirely different now. And it is for the people out there, the BOSSes out there, you know, if you are three, four, and five years in and you're making your way, keep going. Because it is my view that in another two or three years, if you are booking regularly, suddenly something will click, something will change, and bam, away you go.   Anne: I was just gonna ask you what's your best advice? But I'll tell you what, that was a golden nugget of wisdom right there . I think so many people, they give up so quickly, and they get their demos, and they're like, well, why am I not working? And they get so frustrated and down and yeah.   Ian: Took me three months to get my first booking. I worked for three months for nothing.   Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Ian, it has been such a wonderful pleasure having you in here.   Ian: Are we done?   Anne: Yeah.   Ian: Already?   Anne: Well, I, I can probably talk to you for another three hours, for sure. But I appreciate you coming and sharing your journey. I think ,BOSSes out there, you can learn a lot from this wonderful gentleman. And thank you so much for being here with us today.   Ian: You're very welcome, Anne. Anytime.   Anne: I'm gonna give a great big shout out to my sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and work like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And then also I'd like to talk to you about 100 Voices Who Care. It's your chance to make a difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. All right, you guys, have an amazing week. Ian, thanks again, and we'll see you next week. Bye-bye.   Ian: Bye-Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne and Gillian discuss setting up a home studio space and the necessary equipment for it. A home studio space should have proper sound absorption, emphasizing the need for high-quality audio recording equipment and internet connections for efficiency & consistency in their work. They mention the importance of finding a quiet area with proper sound absorption to minimize noises from in & outside of your home. Anne & Gillian also discuss the importance investing in a good computer, as it is a foundational technology that helps run your voice over business. For more insight and recommendations, tune in!    Transcript    It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey guys, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to welcome back once again to the show audio engineer, musician, creative freelancer Gillian Pelkonen for another episode for our BOSS Audio series. Hey Gillian, how are ya?    Gillian: I am good. How are you, Anne?    Anne: I'm excellent. So I thought we had a great conversation about picking your home studio space. And I think we should expand upon that a little bit in this episode and maybe get into a little bit about the equipment that we have into the space for our home studios.    Gillian: Yeah, I think totally a necessary point at the conversation because if you didn't listen to last week's episode or whenever it was, the last BOSS audio episode, you gotta go back and catch up because we talked about finding a space in your home for your voice setup. We talked about a little bit about treatment and how to get your space sounding a little bit better, whether you're at the pro level or if you're a beginner. And then we also had the conversation of what's it like to work in a professional studio versus home studio. And now we're gonna dive into getting that home studio, what you need for it and perfecting the sound a little bit.   Anne: What you need and what you don't need necessarily, right?   Gillian: Yeah, definitely.    Anne: Especially because of your experience working in professional studios where I get overwhelmed looking at the equipment there because I'm like, ah, I'm just a voice actor and (laughs).   Gillian: I'm just a voice actor.    Anne: I'm just a voice actor. I'm not an audio engineer, but I do audio engineering. I know what I know, and I know just what I need to know for that. And I'm very happy, Gillian, to give people like you my business when I need something more from my engineering. So just a little bit backtracking on the absorption factor or the sound factor of your studios. We had talked about finding a quiet area in your home, in an area that maybe isn't near a window or open doorways or places that you can't close off from external noises. So there's external noises coming into your booth, and then we've got the noises within your booth possibly, right, that get reflected back into your microphone. So there's external and then there's internal noises that we want to protect against and have some sort of absorption. And one thing I did wanna mention, and this was a misconception that I had, is that, is there a way to 100% soundproof anything (laughs)?    Gillian: Yes. You know, it's so crazy. This is a slight tangent, and I don't know the details so it's gonna be a half story, but there is a room --   Anne: I know where you're going with this.    Gillian: There's this room where they've completely soundproofed it. And supposedly, I mean, I, I just got out --   Anne: You could go crazy in five minutes.   Gillian: You could go crazy in it. And I feel like I'm in a quiet space right now, and my Apple Watch is telling me that there's 73 decibels of sound going on.    Anne: Oh my God. You have that on your -- see, you are absolutely an audio engineer.    Gillian: I love to know.    Anne: I cannot tell you how many decibels right now on my watch, no.    Gillian: I can tell you from my watch because it's important to -- oh my gosh. We could do a whole episode on ear health and keeping your ears because that's very important.   Anne: I agree.    Gillian: Which is why I have it on there 'cause -- I wish Apple would sponsor us, 'cause I just talk about them all day. But there's a ton of ways to check and make sure that your hearing's not being damaged both by --   Anne: Oh, fantastic.    Gillian: — what you're listening to and the environment you're in. That's super interesting and really important to me, near and dear to my heart, because this is my livelihood, like your voice.    Anne: Absolutely.    Gillian: The way you care for your voice, I care for my ears. But there is a place where they completely soundproofed it and supposedly people can't stay in there for more than five minutes.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: It's so uncomfortable. It's so quiet --   Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: — you can like hear your blood moving in your body.    Anne: So I'm sorry I have to tell you about this. So a while back, my ear got perforated. I had a head cold, and I went to a doctor who wasn't the best doctor, and they said, well, we can't see in your ear because you have a buildup of wax, so we need to take care of that. And they took a syringe to clear out my ear and I said, well, that typically doesn't work for me because I've really tiny eardrums. And they're like, no, no, no, no. And so they flushed my ear out and proceeded to poke a hole in my eardrum when that happened. And it was really scary, number one, because my equilibrium just got completely thrown.    I had to sit down for like 45 minutes, and I should have, this could be a whole ‘nother episode, I should have probably sued them (laughs) because I told them not to do it.  And so, they punctured my eardrum and I know because I could taste the fluid going down my throat once the syringe went. I know it's gross. Sorry. But anyways, I will tell you about the recovery period. So when you have a hole in your eardrum, your eardrum performs many, many important functions, right? Keeping sound out and also sound in. And so when you have a hole in that (laughs), the sounds that you hear are incredibly different.    So for a good year after that happened, if not longer, I would hear wooshing sounds in my ear because it was literally fluids in my body that I could now hear. And it was like I could hear when I had sinus issues. I could hear when it was an allergy day, and it would get very loud. And this white noise I call — like it wasn't a white noise 'cause I couldn't stand it. It was like whooshing, whooshing in sounds that were constantly, I couldn't go into a room full of a lot of people talking because my brain couldn't process all of the sounds. And it made me very confused and very foggy. It was very upsetting. So for a long time, while my ear was healing, and it still hasn't completely healed, my brain had to get used to the fact that I could hear noises both from inside my body and outside my body. So it does not surprise me that if you had 100% pure quiet in a room — and by the way I think that's like miles like below the earth, that room that you go down into, and they've soundproofed it -- it makes a whole lot of sense that you would go crazy, because I was able to hear all sorts of noises, my heart beating. It was incredible.    Gillian: Uncomfortable.    Anne: It's very uncomfortable. Very unsettling.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: So (laughs) in terms of --   Gillian: No, you should not want to get a completely soundproofed room.    Anne: Yes. But, and that's why also they have signs in studios, shh, recording. Because you cannot possibly really 100% soundproof. Like if you're gonna run screaming down the hallway in a studio, I think still you'll be able to hear some of that sound coming through a door. Maybe not, depends on how loud, you know, you still don't wanna make any extraneous noises that you don't have to.    Gillian: Well, it is interesting because a lot of the studios that I work in, there are certain things that will really help.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: And I learned in school about the things that you do. You do floating floors, which is like the regular floor and then another one. So that --   Anne: On top of it.    Gillian: And then just basically rooms within rooms, which is what --   Anne: Oh, I was gonna say --   Gillian: — a booth is. Same thing.   Anne: A room in a room. And that's the protective like walls on the outside that protect the sounds from coming in.    Gillian: Well, they also, when they build them, it's like double paned everything. And the doors are really heavy. I mean on important rooms that need like the control room where we blast music doors are, they've gotta be like a hundred pounds of those doors just to, and solid wood to keep everything out. Even the glass, there's like double paned glass and it's slanted, like kind of like we talked, you don't want complete parallel surfaces anywhere, 'cause that just creates for reflections everywhere.    Anne: And what's interesting is that I've not had a window on any of my booths. Now I know a lot of the booths that are pre-fabricated, you can buy with a window, and it and it's cool looking and it's pretty. But when it came time to designing this particular booth, I said, oh I want a window. ‘Cause I never had a window. And Tim Tippetts said to me, do you really want a window (laughs)? He said, did you have a window in your last booth? I'm like, no. And he goes, so the window kind of brings up a whole ‘nother set of things that you have to protect against because it's a different surface. Right? It's not the same as a wall. And so it's a pane of glass so you also have to protect that. So when I was recording he said, really you need a sound panel to put over it when you record to keep all of the noise out. So I just said, you know what, I don't need a window. I really don't.    And my door, by the way, which has always been a really heavy part of my booth -- I have double doors here. So not only do I have double walls, but I have double doors, and that's to help keep noises from the outside from coming in. And now in terms of inside, I also have sound that's traveling inside this booth. My booth is probably built at a very tiny angle. It's not like a huge angle, it's not visible at all. But the walls are not completely perpendicular to one another. And also I have these panels that are the acoustic panels that are on the walls. Again, any of the sound that right now is in my booth will bounce around and get absorbed by these panels.    And I mentioned before that they're slightly offset from the wall. So like by a quarter inch maybe? I'm looking right now. They sit off the wall a quarter inch so that if it hits that wall, it has space to travel back through the back of the panel and then get stopped again before it could travel back into this microphone. And that's typically what you're trying to do is to stop the sound from reflecting and reverberating off the walls and coming back into the microphone as feedback or some sort of echo. So that's a little bit more on the absorption part. But now once we're in the studio, (laughs) and we're recording --   Gillian: Once we're in the studio that you've built and whatever says…   Anne: — there's equipment. And of course we could probably talk about microphones all day. But I, I really think that there's other pieces of equipment that I wanna focus on today, and maybe this will even go into another episode, in regards to what's important for voice actors. I'm gonna start the conversation with your internet connection.    Gillian: Yeah. And we kind of talked about this a little bit last time. Like internet computer, without those two things, you don't have a job. You can't connect with anybody.   Anne: So true.    Gillian: I mean it's different when you're in a recording studio 'cause that's all there for you and you don't think about the fact that they have the computer, they have the recording equipment, especially since as a voice actor just standing in front of the mic, putting on the headphones. Like those are things that you think about. But we worry about that all the time, and less the internet connection, which we've had to do that and configure things to be on Zoom with people to send audio that way. But it's definitely very important. And my computer is my, I don't wanna say baby, but kind of (laughs); more important than my phone, it is the most important thing in my professional life, and I spent a ton of money on it to get the most updated one and it, it hurt.   Anne: It's an investment.   Gillian: It hurt a little bit.   Anne: (laughs) There was some physical pain when you invested --   Gillian: Emotional pain.    Anne: — but it's an investment.    Gillian: I have someone that I work with that we talk about this all the time 'cause we both have, you know, brand new Macs, iPhone. What -- I don't have the newest one, but when I upgraded I got pro Macs, the best phone. Because why would you not invest in something that you use every single day and that you use every single day for work?   Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: Like you're paying to have less trouble issues, be faster. I think that's a worthy investment.    Anne: Well, I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna backtrack a little bit because I'm adamant about the internet. I love the internet and it's always been said that I would marry the internet if I could (laughs). Like, like Vince Surf is like one of my heroes, okay, the inventor of the internet. And so I guess my point is I have some people that say when I'm connecting to them for their sessions and I use ipDTL to connect exclusively with my students for their sessions because of the fact that it's a high quality audio connection. It allows me to hear them better so that I can direct them better. We can record our sessions. There's lots of wonderful advantages to using ipDTL. Also source connect, all the other methodologies that people use to connect to each other, to their clients and to studios, you need to have a quality internet connection.    And sometimes when I have students say, well, my connection -- yeah, well, I think we have like a 300 connection, 300 speed. Most people don't necessarily know what speed connection they are connecting to the internet. And I think that it's important for you to know as BOSSes, first of all, what speed is your internet connection? And if you have the capability of getting a gig or a faster speed, why not choose the top of the line speed for that internet connection? Because your business, not just your audio and connecting with clients, but your entire business runs on the internet and the communication. Because we are pretty much an online business. Right? And we're connecting globally to people. So why on a daily basis -- I probably am on the internet, oh goodness, 8 to 10 hours a day, possibly more.   Gillian: An embarrassing number of hours a day. (laughs)   Anne: Well, yeah, because we watch our televisions now, which are, you know, everything is fed through the internet. And so if you can get the fastest speed, absolutely, it's an investment in your company. I just say that over and over again. And as a matter of fact, when I said this before on an episode, when I moved here to my new house, I actually checked and said, what speeds are available in my area? If I cannot get fiber to my house, I will not move here. I will not move here.    You know, it's one of those things they say, oh, fiber's coming, fiber's coming. But you know, if it's years until fiber's coming, and I know how important that connection is to my business, the livelihood of my business, I actually chose where I was going to live based upon my internet speed. Because again, until I retire, guys, this is it. This is where I make my money, and I know how important it is. So, alright, I've stepped down off my soapbox for the internet, but get the fastest speed, guys. It's an investment in your business and write it off. Right? It's your business. Okay. Now Gillian onto the computer thing. So.   Gillian: Well no, no. I feel like this doesn't get, and maybe it does get talked about. I'm not hearing it, so we're talking about it (laughs), but like --   Anne: I'm rambling on and on about it. (laughs)    Gillian: Computers, XLR cables, like these are not exciting purchases. A microphone is an exciting purchase to some degree.    Anne: Well, I think they're exciting. Gillian. I'm sorry. I was gonna marry the internet, remember?    Gillian: That's true, that's true. That's true, in love with the internet. But I think that there's a ton of things that make your space great that are not flashy --   Anne: A microphone.   Gillian: Or exciting. I mean, unboxing my computer was like a spiritual experience. I loved it. It was like so awesome. I just, when I got my Apple Watch last week, I took a video of the unboxing because I was like, oh my gosh, it's so aesthetically pleasing. (laughs). I mean --   Anne: Wait, did you say that to yourself? This is so aesthetically pleasing. I love that.   Gillian: I said it in my head. Yeah, of course.    Anne: I love it. I love it.    Gillian: Everything with Apple. I made my boyfriend hover above and take the video while I unbox it and I was like, don't move.   Anne: Wait, wait. Get the lighting. Get the lighting perfect. I would do that too though. I'm such a geek about things like that. I really am.   Gillian: You only open an Apple box once. Once it's opened, it's not the same. Anyway sorry, little BOSSes; you're listening to us ramble about Apple. All of you PC lovers, I'm sorry.    Anne: Yes.    Gillian: You just will never, never understand (laughs). Or maybe you will.    Anne: Well, they have their own unboxing, so that's absolutely fine. You can get excited about -- but I know a lot of people that build their own computers, and that's exciting.    Gillian: Oh yeah. That's an activity. That's fun.    Anne: That's definitely a very cool thing to do. So your computer, again, it's part of your livelihood. Now there are people out there that say for voice acting, you don't need to have a very powerful computer, and no, you don't necessarily for the actual physical audio recording of one track perhaps. I'm gonna say that, yeah, you don't have to have a billion megabytes of RAM or, or a ton of space. But honestly, everything we do combined together along with the audio recording -- I am connecting with clients. I am looking things up on the internet, I'm researching, I am doing so many activities on that computer for my business, marketing, connecting with clients, audio recording, audio editing — why wouldn't I want it to be as optimal as it could be?   And so there might be people that are using multiple computers. Like one is just for recording my audio. That's fine. Whatever works works there for you. However, there's still -- I think Gillian and I were discussing this a little bit earlier, and we can continue this discussion about the speed of your computer, when you're recording, your audio does play a factor in the quality of what you're getting out. And you certainly don't want your computer to be an ancient piece of equipment that can't handle your interface or it keeps crashing. Like I know for a fact -- Gillian, you use Adobe products?   Gillian: I do. Yeah.    Anne: Right? I mean, just any Adobe product for me has always been a little bit of a memory hog. And so if you've got Adobe Audition running in the background and you're recording and you've got it on a kind of an older computer and you don't have a lot of RAM or you're running out of space, whatever it is, it can cause that to crash and cause many, many frustrating problems. So as good as your performance is, right, if your DAW's gonna crash time and time again…   Gillian: And there's nothing worse than being in the middle of an edit, and it crashes and you lose all of your hard work on an edit. That's happened -- I mean, not as much with ProTools. There's always like automatic save. So I'll just go back to previous version, but it's happened enough --   Anne: Or a good take. Right? You could be actually recording like, and you've got the best take of your life, and then something, you know, happens. I mean, that would suck.    Gillian: Yeah. So it's interesting because computers become important when you're doing everything off of it. Kind of like we're saying, you're sending emails, you're uploading auditions places, you are, I don't know, creating your post for social media in Premiere, you're recording, you're editing, you're -- all of these things, they take up space and why would you not — obviously don't go into debt for a computer.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: I mean, do what you want, but --   Anne: But it's an investment.    Gillian: Again, it's a worthy investment, and I think people always -- from my experience of talking with voice actors, people would be much more willing to jump to buy another microphone or another, something that's, in air quotes, fun versus, you know, really splurging on the super important things.    Anne: So true. Like a foundational technology that helps you run your business. You're absolutely right. And not to say that microphones aren't important, but again, no, you don't need like the U87 (laughs). Well, I kind of want one, but(laughs), I still am holding off on that one. But microphones like, I feel like the microphone technologies, they last a little bit longer than — you don't have to worry about updating them. It's not like you're upgrading the OS on your microphone, right?    Gillian: No.    Anne: Or upgrading the RAM, uh, microphones, they work and they just work unless you're gonna beat it up.    Gillian: They're completely different.   Anne: And pour water into it. Yeah. It's a completely different, it's a piece of hardware that…   Gillian: It's a piece of hardware. I mean five years and who knows, but five years down the line, at least for me, I'll trade in my, yeah. Mac for another Mac through Apple. That'll be great. But if you have a microphone, you can sell that at any point. If anything, it's probably gonna go up in value the longer you keep it and take care of it. And yeah, I mean, I'm kind of a U87 hater. I don't like them. I don't like them at all.    Anne: That could be another episode. I'm not sure how many people would disagree with you there.    Jilian: I think, I don't know. I don't know how much of it is just, it's a -- I mean I've used it, I've done shootouts with mics for myself for other things where you just line them all up and you sing into them. And the one that I'm using now is my favorite from a lot of mics that I've tried within my budget. My favorite mics are like $20,000 ones that I can't afford and don't need to afford, because why would I? But producers, clients, nobody's gonna know what your gear is. They just care about how you sound. And so I don't personally think that everyone needs to spend upwards of thousands of dollars on gear. I think there's really smart ways to make less expensive gear sound great when you're starting out.    But then the expensive gear is room to grow within your business, within your voiceover experience. And isn't that like something to look forward to or know that, you can resell your gear to someone who's starting off and then upgrade to something bigger, and just all of these big purchases are investments. And they are important.    Anne: And another thing that, I'm just gonna say that like equipment that you don't think about for your voiceover business, your online storefront, hello, your website. Oh my goodness, I cannot tell you how many people want to -- and I'm not saying you can't do it on your own. However, look, I worked in technology for 20 years. I did websites back when they were easy. Okay? They're not -- when you could write HDMI Notepad and it was simple. And then all of a sudden like CSS came out and I was like, I was overwhelmed. I was like, okay, no, I just know what functionality I want in the backend of my website. I'm not a graphic designer. I'm a functional person, so I know what I want, and I know what functionality I want.    And so at some point I said, okay, I am not making my own websites anymore because it is a face of my business. And so I wanna pay someone who actually does this eight hours a day, if not longer. And that's what they were trained to do. And a lot of people try to skimp on that. And I hear that constantly from voice actors. And I guess my question is, back in the day when there was more brick and mortar things, like actual studios, Gillian, you know, you go to them all the time — you used to have to front the bill for leasing once a month. If you had a store, you had to stock it with inventory so there were all these like monetary investments you would make.    And then all of a sudden when things became easy from technology and easier from technology and online, all of a sudden people think that, well, it's so easy, I can just do it and cheap out on it. It frustrates me. Like that mentality -- I understand that yes, doing anything online at home is a great business to start, but you have to still invest in it. And there's so many worthy things to invest in, and your storefront, if it's not brick and mortar, it's online. The impression you make is so, so important in order to be successful in this industry.    Gillian: And there are just ways to -- I love my website. It's very important to me. I've gotten like compliments on it that it looks really professional, and I didn't make it. I hired someone to make it for me. Obviously the content that I fill it with is mine. I do that. But I would've never been able to make the website that I have now. Both from how it looks and a functionality standpoint, I feel like people are not really using their websites in a functional way where you could, you know, manage contacts and, and communicate with people that way.    But for me, I mean, I work with voice actors, I do sessions with them. Every once in a while I will have to look someone up and the first thing I look for is a website. And if I can't find a website for someone, I kind of don't know what to do. I'm like, if I can't find you and listen to your demo right away — and if it's not easy for me, and especially like if you could get your demos online, easily downloadable for anybody in casting, anybody working at a studio that kind of gives you a leg up. It really like, it just does because you're easier to work with, you're easier to find. And I kind of know who you are. I'm like, okay, this person is a legit voice actor. Which might not be the right answer, but it's what I do.   Anne: Well, and a professional voice actor. Right? So, again, there are people who, well, you know, do I need to buy a domain? Do I need to, you know, I can do my own website right now, and I can upload my files to a pay-to-play. But honestly, when I shop and I shop a lot online, hello? Gosh, I can't remember the last time I was at a mall. Although I do love getting out and seeing people. But honestly I do a ton of online shopping. And so for me, the trust factor and the value factor has everything to do with the website. And when I first get an impression of somebody, when I go to the website, right, I can tell, oh, are they trustworthy? Are they professional?    And if you've got a website that you made and you don't do that for a living, right, it's gonna look homemade. Here's an old school thing. I always talk about business cards, right? If you walk up to somebody and they hand you a business card, which still happens these days, not as much as it used to, but then that business card was printed on a printer in your home versus something that was professionally made, you can absolutely tell the difference. Same thing with a website, right? You can absolutely tell the difference, but there's just a level. It's like a movie and a B movie, (laughs). It's like, it's absolutely a level of professionalism that comes with something that's been professionally designed.    Gillian: And unfortunately it's kind of all the aesthetic versus, and that analogy is incredible. I mean, I've never really lived in a business card world. I know (laughs), but when I was like 10, I had professionally made business cards for my babysitting business.    Anne: There you go.    Gillian: So I kind of did. And those were --   Anne: It made a difference, right?    Gillian: I, I don't know, I still have them, but I got work probably 'cause people were impressed that a 10-year-old had business cards.    Anne: Right?    Gillian: But for me, I mean I'm in my 20s, I first look at people's website, and off the bat there's just a different pro versus not pro vibe that I immediately, it just goes off in my brain. And same thing. And then if I can't find them immediately, the next thing I look for is Instagram. And if I can't find you and see that you're doing any sort of voiceover work, then I'm kind of confused. You know, if you have a great voice, I'll email you, but it's a different world.    Anne: So that's interesting. So you go Instagram, what about TikTok? At what level is TikTok or other social media channels for you?    Gillian: Um, it really is for me. I use my Instagram, it's like professional now. Everyone that I meet on a session, artists that I work with, I connect with everybody on Instagram. And that's like the way that I keep up with what people are doing and what people are up to. I personally don't really use LinkedIn. I did when I was in less creative field, but nobody that I work with uses it.    Anne: Right. But our potential clients do. That's why I'm just gonna say that for us.    Gillian: Well, yeah. I think it's different for what I do versus what you guys do. But I, I think I'll go to LinkedIn as a last resort if I can't find somebody. But for the most part, like Instagram and websites. TikTok, I don't really use for work. That's like fun for me. I would never like look for someone on TikTok or like look for voice actors on TikTok. But I do know that there's definitely --   Anne: But if there were creative voice actors, I was gonna say if there's creative voice actors that are doing something entertaining on TikTok, you'll take notes.    Gillian: Yeah. I'm also not a client. I'm coming at this from a strictly studio perspective. I do, every once in a while some voice actors will come up on my feed, or I know there's some people that I know that are like voice actors and musicians and they talk about stuff like that. Um, so I can't say that I know too much about it, but yeah, Instagram is like the thing for me that I can check if someone's legit or not.    Anne: I think the last little, I'm gonna call these the soft equipment requirements. I'm gonna talk about how before it was a voice actor, always, well I've got a face for radio, that kind of thing. I loved voice acting initially because there weren't the requirements of being on camera. I thought, well, I can act and I can be behind that microphone. However, it has evolved and times have changed. And I do believe that there's a video element and there's a face element because people wanna connect with humans. And so for us as voice actors, there are the times when we need to connect with others as humans. And a lot of times I'll have live sessions where they'll wanna connect and watch me via Zoom. I don't always have the camera on. Sometimes I will always to say hello.    For obviously my podcast, yes. I do this and I do some, if you were going to do some social media posts, I have a YouTube channel called my Teachable Moments. So the other equipment purchase that people don't necessarily think about is a good camera and good lighting. And then also I hire a video person to help me to actually create videos and edit videos. So again, it can present to my online clients. My online presence can be of a more professional nature. Again, I don't do video production, but I do know lots of people that do. So I think camera and lighting so that you can look professional. And then if you have videos that you upload, make them look professional and have people who do video editing. And so what a good conversation. And we didn't even get to the hardware yet, really.    Gillian; I know, I'm sorry, guys. There's one more --   Anne: Or the microphone or the headphones and, and all that. So that's for our next --   Gillian: Sorry, guys.   Anne: That's for our next episode.   Gillian: But I got, one more thing I got for you. It's so interesting because obviously I'm learning about the voiceover industry. I know about audio; I record it, but learning the ins and outs of the industry or what people are doing, sometimes it's confusing to me because sometimes stuff goes like against what I would think or things that I think are obvious, people aren't doing. But for voice actors, I feel like, and this is my take, you can tell me if I'm wrong, I feel like it'd be easy to be yourself on social media because anything that you do with you talking, just being yourself. It's your voice. And that's --   Anne: Uh, yes, it's true. It's so true.    Gillian: Wouldn't that make so much sense? I'm on social media a decent bit. I'm on TikTok. People are always like, this is my morning routine, this and that. All these videos with voiceover. And when I make my tos, I do voiceovers. I don't do voiceover, but you know, I'll talk in them, but really, I hear a lot of people getting hung up on like, I have to be talking about my booth or voiceover. But really anything that you're doing --   Anne: Anything you're doing.    Gillian: — using your voice is showing off your voice --   Anne: Who you are and your brand.    Gillian: Yeah. But then if, if you're being yourself, then it's kind of like sneaky, you know, it's like I'm just being myself. People are getting to know me, and they're realizing that I have a great voice and a great sound. So that's what I always think about and I don't see a lot of.   Anne: Yeah. And people buy from people they know, like, and trust. And I've always said this podcast, I have gotten so much work from this podcast. There's so many people that come up to me and say, oh my gosh, I feel like I've known you for years because I've been doing this podcast for years and, and I'm pretty much myself on this podcast. And ultimately that is a really wonderful way to get your brand out there and to have people know, like, and trust you. And then, when they do come to you, they're ready to purchase. And that just becomes a really cool thing. So yeah, guys, so this has been a great talk about the soft technologies. I don't even know what to call them. The soft technologies or the technologies that most people don't think about, right? The hardware people don't think about.   Gillian: Or just things that people don't think about that are not the --   Anne: It's not the microphone --   Gillian: — exact gear. I'm sorry, guys. We're just leading you on. I'm so sorry (laughs). But there's just not so much to say.    Anne: Next episode. All right, well, thank you, Gillian. It's been fun. We're gonna talk next time about maybe some equipment that people have been thinking about. Well, what about my headphones?   Gillian: I know.    Anne: So good stuff. So BOSSes, as individuals, it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to learn how. All right. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.    Gillian: Bye.    Anne: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In this episode, Anne and Gillian stress the importance of having a high-quality home studio for voice actors. The hosts discuss the technical aspects of setting up a studio, such as having a good computer, fast internet, and a reliable microphone. They also emphasize the need for soundproofing, with Anne sharing her DIY approach to creating acoustic panels for her studio. Additionally, the hosts talk about the importance of isolation and how it can be achieved through building panels or using reflection filters. Overall, the episode provides valuable insights for anyone looking to set up a professional-grade voiceover studio.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to welcome back to the show audio engineer, musician and creative freelancer Gillian Pelkonen for another episode in our BOSS audio series. Hey Gillian.    Gillian: Hello Anne. How's it going today?    Anne: I'm doing good. Gillian, I love talking all things audio with you, especially because for a voice actor, our home studios are so very important. And I work mostly out of my home studio, and I know that you kind of do both. You work out of professional studios and your home studio. So I thought we should discuss the important aspects of what voice actors really need and how they can fine-tune their home studio to sound their best, 'cause that's an important component of today's voice actor. We need to have great sound.    Gillian: Yeah, I definitely agree. And I'm home. This is like my working station, but when I'm really working I'm always just bopping around to different studios. So I understand why your booth is so important. It's like your second home or --   Anne: Yeah. (laughs).   Gillian: You know, you spend all your time in there.   Anne: We spend — oh yeah, we spend a lot of time in our booth. So first of all we have to be confident that it sounds amazing, that we can deliver amazing sound to our clients. And then also it's gotta be someplace where it's comforting for us because we do spend an awful lot of time in here.    Gillian: I definitely agree with my personal setup that I have here. I have like all my little mementos that I wanna see, and I have my mic of course for just meetings and talking. But really professional studios are so different than a home studio, because for me I'm always going different places. There's a ton of different gear, a ton of different stuff that we swap in and out for different uses, different clients, but really you guys are just focusing on your voice.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: A lot of the work that I do is just to get creative sounds, different sounds, but with voice acting you want it to be consistent and you wanna show up in the booth to do, I guess, revisions for something that you did six months ago and you need to be the same Anne that you were, which is so crazy to me.    Anne: Yeah. And even longer than that, actually I had a client just the other day that I had to provide pickups on something that I had done close to five years ago. And interestingly enough, I've actually transitioned from one studio to the next. So having I think the good bass sound, right, that you can get out of your studio area and also your mics make a big difference too in terms of the sound. And so I had to make sure that I could match it because I literally moved from my studio in Irvine, which was a different setup, a studio that my father built, to a custom studio that Tim Tippetts built here right before the pandemic. Oh, and in between I had a temporary studio, I forgot to mention that set up at an apartment that we were staying at until our new house was built and ready. So that was a different studio.    So all through those three different studios, thankfully I had the same mic, so I at least knew that I could get the same sound as long as I had a decent environment to record that in. And then also I will give props to myself because I had the audio files from five years ago. So I'm a big proponent of backing up your stuff and keeping an archive of it so you can listen and see what your performance was like, see what you sounded like and then be able to match it.    Gillian: Yeah, that's crazy. And so incredible that you have those files and I think that's one of the most important things for me personally too, just to keep everything backed up and know what's going on. But enlighten me, because I really don't know, like did you spend a lot of time working in studios before the pandemic? Like what was your experience like?    Anne: Oh, good question. So I started, gosh, I started back in the early 2000s doing voiceover, and that was when a home studio was like just a thought. It was not a requirement, it was just a thought. And you used to go to local studios to record things, and you would get your jobs based upon auditioning with either studios, or you could audition and then you would select a studio and you would rent space there, or you might be on a roster for a studio. So it's very interesting because as technology evolved and online became a thing and online casting became a thing, then all of a sudden home studios became a thing. Actually back in the day with Don LaFontaine, right, having to travel LA traffic all the time, he became, I think one of the first proponents of doing things remotely in a studio using ISDN technology.    So that I think really spurred everybody else on to start to get home studios because there's so many variables when you record in a studio. But the good thing about recording in a studio is that you go there and everything is beautiful, everything is sound -- everything is, well maybe not sound proof, but everything is optimized for recording so you didn't have to worry about it. And so for me, all of a sudden having to create a home studio or a space for me to record and sound good -- I'm not an audio engineer by trade, I didn't really study it in school. So for me that was a big hurdle in the beginning of my voiceover career. And I know it still is for voice talent that are coming up through the ranks, because that's not necessarily what we studied. We didn't study audio engineering. And of course it's a whole field.    So (laughs), it's not an easy field. And to set up a space in your home so that it can sound as good as a professional studio is really tough. So in the beginning when I went to studios to record and do my jobs, it was great, except for there was always the stress. Can I book the time in the studio? And if I had the time booked for me in the studio, that was great. All I had to do was make sure I got there on time. And then that became a stressful thing for me because of possible traffic. And back in the day, I didn't live in the LA area, but I did live in the New York area. And so traffic anywhere, just the stress of getting to the studio on time, 'cause that's the last thing. You know, that was the one piece of advice that everybody gave to starting voice talent was that don't be late, don't be late to your studio time. You wanna make sure that you show up and you're professional.    But you certainly didn't have to stress about anything other than just performing in front of the mic. And I think that was a big plus for going into studios. And people still go into studios today. And I know I love it when, even if I'm remotely connecting to a studio, I have the engineer taking care of all the sounds and levels and the files, and there's just so much to think about when you are at your home studio. And I'm rambling on here, but it's also a thing that when we are in our home studios, we have to think about things like, okay, well, it's our time to open those files, save the files, upload the files, send the files to our client, edit those files. And so that's something that when you don't go to a studio is now the responsibility of the voice actor.    Gillian: Well, that's crazy (laughs). I mean obviously a lot of these things I know to some extent and it seems like there's so many pros and cons for both. I mean, just hearing you talk about it, obviously we know showing up to record and not having to record yourself, it takes a burden off of it.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: Because I record myself. I mean, I'm not a voice actor by any means, not at all. But I've been working on my music for my whole life, and I think when I was like 12 or 13 I got a little ProTools CD and like a tiny interface and that was what started it and the convenience of being at home. But really it is such a treat to go into a studio.   Anne: It's a luxury. I think I consider it a luxury.    Gillian: But also hearing you talk about it, I feel performance-wise, it's gotta be easier to deliver when you're not stressed about getting there on time, you're not stressed about, you know, needing to be in front of other people. I know for myself, I love recording myself, especially when I'm doing singing or vocals because it's super vulnerable and sometimes I don't wanna have to do that in front of somebody else, especially someone I don't know, a stranger. Like, it's a little bit more difficult. But it is interesting because I work at a lot of music studios, so we don't do a ton of voiceover, but whenever we do, we always apologize to the voice talent, 'cause we have this entire gigantic beautiful studio, and we're like, okay, we're gonna give you one mic, we're gonna stick you in the corner 'cause it has the best isolation and close the door, and that's where you're gonna get to go.    'Cause it really is true. You need a good mic, you need a good setup. But voice actors don't need that whole setup. And so I guess the question or conversation is gonna be about how do you take the pros of a pro studio and incorporate them into your home studio setup and make it so that you don't wish you were at the studio. You have everything you need right there.    Anne: Yeah, yeah. It's a journey, for sure, for a voice actor, because again, I don't have the audio engineering education that you do. I know how to perform behind the mic. And so I just remember for me setting up my initial home studios --and I didn't have an ear either for it. I think when you first begin, you just don't have an ear for what good sound sounds like, and I would record and I didn't think anything of it and sent my file off to someone and they're like, mm, yeah, no Anne, that's not gonna do, that's not acceptable. And I was mortified and then it was like, wow. So what do I have to do to make my studio produce sound that is viable for my client?    Gillian: Yes, definitely an interesting conversation and thought just because it's true, like voice actors, they do have to fill the role of the audio engineer. I do believe that. But I also don't think that all voice actors need to be audio engineers.    Anne: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.    Gillian: You need to know how to record yourself. You need to know how to see if you're clipping, if you're too quiet to hear, a little bit of distortion or hear if your voice just isn't sounding right. And obviously, you know, with auditions you have to edit, you have to make it sound comparable to the other auditions and maybe a final product. But really I feel like if you tell someone who's not an audio engineer, or if you told me five years ago before I was really an audio engineer, you have to do this, it's so overwhelming. So I feel like talking about what people actually need to know, versus what you hire a professional for, or what you just kind of say, okay, this is a setting within my DAW that does not pertain to me. I don't need to be using this to get proper file delivery -- I feel like that's really important for people to just, I think make peace with. Because if you spent all your time trying to learn how to be an audio engineer, you would have no time to be a voice talent or to be doing what you actually wanna be doing.    Anne: So true, so true. So then I think maybe starting from square one, if BOSSes out there are just getting started, and I know I work with people who are just getting started in the industry, and they'll connect to me for their sessions in an office with a headset, and there will be no studio whatsoever, and they will be okay, I'm building my studio. So for me, I will always say to them, well, I certainly have a ton of people that I can recommend to you that can help you build that studio.    But there are certain principles that I know, like I can now hear if they have good sound or not. And I think the first thing to consider is, in your home, like where is a quiet area? And I know that's such a lofty question to ask, but in reality what I've learned is that if you can go somewhere inside your home that's maybe on an inside wall, maybe something that's not necessarily externally connected or near windows or near doorways or near sounds that can turn on — I mean I thought I was really great in the beginning going into my office closet, but unfortunately I found that it was very close to where I would hear water when the toilet flushed upstairs. So it was like one of those things I kept hearing noises. And so I think the first thing is to find that spot in your home that is quiet and also yet convenient to a place where you can put a microphone and also your computer, 'cause you do need your interface, your computer and your microphone.    So where can you put that and set that down so that you can record in a space and also have the functionality of being able to record into your computer, and then obviously hit the start record, stop, record, and all that stuff. And also wear a pair of headphones in the beginning so that you can kind of find out what your sound is like. All those things that people don't think about, they're like, well, I'm gonna put my studio here in my closet, but then all of a sudden their desk is like at the other side of the room, and they don't have a long enough cable.    It could be that simple, right? (laughs) They don't have a long enough cable for their headphones, and then they're like, well what do I do? Or they don't have a long enough cable for their interface is sitting on desk completely across the room, and then well do they bring the interface into the room? So it becomes all these different questions. But I think understanding that your spot in your home I think needs to be in a quiet area first. Maybe not near a window or not near anything that's within a wall that could be making noise like a heater or air conditioning or a generator, that kind of thing. What are your thoughts on that, Gillian?    Gillian: It's so funny 'cause the like doing vocals in a closet or whatever, it's a cliche because it works. Having the padding of the clothing and typically that ends up being a quiet spot in your house, but it's not sustainable to work in your closet forever. And all those things that you mentioned are totally important. You have to have a computer, all of those things. And don't take me for an example if anyone's watching the video; I'm in my office. I don't do recording in here, but I'm like by a window by a ton of noise. It's terrible. But I think finding the right spot to get set up in is totally important.    But the most important thing I think, and you can let me know what you think, but for the most part for doing voiceover work, obviously you need a microphone, but your computer, your internet connection, those are like hugely important things because how fast your computer is, how good it is at processing audio speeds, how well it connects to your interface — like all of those super technical things within — I know I have like a brand new MacBook — those are gonna really matter for how your audio sounds when you deliver it to clients. And you can have the nicest setup in the world, but if you don't have internet, or I know a lot of people also do like ethernet connections, you're not gonna make it to the job. Obviously if you're just auditioning and sending it later, that's a different scenario. But I mean, how important is it to you to obviously be able to connect to clients? That's like the number one.    Anne: Well, I think that's probably one of the most overlooked aspects of being a successful voice actor is your internet. And especially now with needing to have high capacity audio recording features like Source Connect or ipDTL or whatever connection you might be using to get to a studio — that's if you're connecting to a studio -- you need to have a reliable internet connection. And I remember I very much was adamant when I came to my new place here, because it was being built, I specified that there were three specific ethernet jacks placed on the wall, on each wall. So literally I made sure that I had ethernet hardwired, connected before I moved in because I knew it was gonna be easiest to do it then.    Because the people who move into homes, and they don't have ethernet connections, then they usually have to hire an electrician or somebody that can find out that they can run the wire through the wall to get to their modem or their router, or they have to move the router into their office and then other things become a problem. So ethernet and your hardwire connections are so important. And I don't see the technologies advancing anytime soon. Like wireless technology is great and convenient, but it's still not as great as a straight wired connection. I mean you cannot beat an ethernet connection or a fiber connection to your router that gets your data there fast.    Gillian: I think it's just sturdiness. It's true, wifi goes out or it's finicky sometimes. So those are are really important things. And obviously having the foresight to know that you need to have ethernet and all those things installed is really important. But for the people that didn't think about this, are already living somewhere, don't know what to do, find a spot where you feel comfortable, find a spot that's kind of away from extraneous noise. And I personally don't think, if you're just starting out in voiceover, you need to splurge on a booth or anything right away. I think there's a ton of DIY options that we can talk about, but I think that's also a lot of pressure, or at least from what I'm hearing. I'm also like half in the voiceover world, half out of it. So there's a lot of questions that I'm probably gonna have for you about like why people say certain things. And I know kind of random but kind of on the conversation is a lot of audio people that I know are very adamant about not updating your computer or having really, really old hardware. I understand the processes --   Anne: To support the equipment, right?   Gillian: -- behind it. Yeah. But I personally don't live that way. I update my computer. I have new stuff and there are times, like when I, I updated to a newer version of ProTools or a new version of Mac, like the Mac OS that was not supportive of ProTools, and I had a couple weeks where it was having a little bit of bugs, which is frustrating. But definitely for security of myself and all of the other things going on in my life, I don't think that you need to be using a 2010 computer.    Anne: Well, I agree. Normally I would agree with you 'cause I worked in technology for like 20 years. I would always say --   Gillian: No, no, tell me.    Anne: Update. Update.    Gillian: I'm not saying that right. This is just the way that I work. (laughs)    Anne: Update, and I love being updated to the latest and the greatest 'cause I figure it's getting rid of a lot of bugs. However, sometimes when Apple doesn't update, because I work with Apples, it's not conducive to working with my hardware for my studio. So my Apollo, which is my interface, and I have backup interfaces, but right now the latest release of Mac OS is not compatible with it. And I can't afford to struggle for two weeks. I need to have something that allows me to connect and record. And so I will wait on the update until I find out -- I usually check all the -- there's a lot of great groups out there on the internet that talk about should you update your hardware for this new release? Is it compatible with the latest release for the Apollo? And I think it's wise to keep your eyes on that.    I don't think you should be 10 releases behind for sure. But (laughs), I do think that before you upgrade, to just take a look and ask around to see if things are compatible. That's important, especially if you're required to record every day in your studio, and you don't wanna have to go to your backup recording. And that's the other thing too is that I'm very much into having a backup recording setup, because I've had things happen to me enough times. But people just starting off getting into voice acting, they probably don't even have their first setup (laughs) set up, let alone a backup set of equipment.    Gillian: So let me just talk to you on that for a second. I personally don't have any Apollo, Apollo or UAD stuff for that reason because I'm so nervous to be stuck without it. And I totally agree with you, because when I updated my computer without realizing that ProTools -- I mean I'm fortunate enough that I have five or six other places that I can go use ProTools. It wasn't like -- and it was working. It just, there were certain plug-ins that weren't working. But that's not the end of the world.    Anne: Right.    Gillian: But the lesson that I learned from that was, oh my gosh, never update without checking because it's true all the programs that you're using -- and I think within Apple they will say what is compatible and what's not compatible with these new releases, and that is totally smart person way to do it. And you get burned to realize that you can't do it, which is what happened to me and I'm sure has happened to you.    Anne: You only have to get burned once. Right?    Gillian: You get burned once and then you're like, this sucks. I'm so dumb, I have my features and now I can't do my job.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: Which is sucky.    Anne: Exactly.    Gillian: So learn from our mistakes, don't make your own. But there are some people, and I've met them, people that I work with too -- I mean one of these studios, we had a 10 years old ProTools rig, and when you get into the large professional studios, they are upwards of like $10-, $20-, $30,000 for new ProTools rig like expensive.    Anne: Oh yeah. And I'm sure that's why they don't upgrade to the latest and greatest all the time.    Gillian: Well, the old system was super sturdy, was working really well. And then we upgraded and there were some glitches and bugs and things that come with updating. I don't know why. I just heard people that I work with grumbling like, ah, you know, the old system was so great, now we have the new system and it keeps crashing. And so the, there is this conversation about not upgrading for like 10 years. I don't know if you've heard that within audio engineers.    Anne: That's a long time. Yeah.    Gillian: So if anyone is giving you that advice, I'm just gonna give you the counter-advice so that you can take both of them and make an educated choice about what you wanna be doing. You don't need to be doing what I'm doing and have the newest stuff. If you have an Apollo, you definitely can't always have the most updated, because it's a little bit behind and everything that's not within Apple will always be a little bit behind. But just make your own choices, people. (laughs) Listen to us, gather the info and make a good choice.    Anne: Yeah. Make an educated choice. And I, and I agree like there's always that fine line of when do you update your technology, like when does that happen? And I'm very used to just from my previous jobs -- I mean I was always living on the edge. I was always trying the new stuff. And so I'm very bold when it comes to trying new stuff. But I'm also smart enough, I've been burned enough times to know that I need backups of everything and then backups of the backups. And so I'm actually really thankful for that experience. And BOSSes out there, I say backups of backups, backups of your files, backups of your equipment, backups of your internet connection, because the one time will come when you really need it, and you won't have that backup. And that only has to happen once. I'm so old, it's happened to me multiple times.    So I feel good that I've learned from it. And so while I feel as though I'm really close to the edge on everything I possibly can be, I'm also smart about when to get on that edge with equipment and stuff that I need on a day-to-day basis. So yeah, absolutely. So when you're looking for that space in your home, that quiet space, that space that's comfortable for you and also hopefully quiet for you, right, for that home studio, then you start preparing it, right, acoustically. So Gillian, what can people do to prepare their home studios acoustically? What sorts of things can they do to have sound absorption? Like if they're in a closet, obviously they can have their clothing which is a great absorber of sound. What other things can they use?    Gillian: There are a ton of things that you can use. I know there's a few DIY boots in the sense that they're not thousands and thousands of dollars. They're like some PVC pipe and some packing blankets that will kind of isolate you, which is great.    Anne: Sure.    Gillian: I think the issue with the way that homes are built versus how sound works is you get the windows, you get all the boxy walls, and you have all these parallel surfaces, and you talk, and all the sound just bounces from side to side to side. So the whole point of having treatment on the walls and treatment around you is to stop all of that reverberation --   Anne: Reflection.    Gillian: Yeah. And the reflections. And just capture it. And really a lot of studios will be built with like diagonal walls and all of these things to just go against it. I have never built a studio, so I can't say that I've done it, but I've been in a lot of places where I'm like, that wall's really weird. Why is it like that?    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: And of course it's not for aesthetic, it's for sound. So just making, making sure that you are blocking yourself from any windows are really reflective, just any sort of padding on the walls would be really -- I mean I see yours, all of your stuff in the background. For anyone who's watching, Anne has all those nice little --   Anne: Panels.    Gillian: Yeah. The sound panels that just absorb everything. And there's also these things that we use in studios that I haven't seen any voice actors use, so I'm gonna have to ask you about it. They're like reflection filters. Have you ever heard of them?    Anne: Does that go on a mic?    Gillian: It goes on a mic stand.    Anne: Yes, I have. I have.   Gillian: Have you seen I them?    Anne: Yeah, I have seen them and I have not had good success with them, and I actually hate them. I hate them with a passion.    Gillian: Okay, tell me about it because I'm just curious.    Anne: I think that they can work nicely in a studio that already has some acoustic absorption built into it. And then if it's in a large area, if it's in a large space and you need a little bit more, I think that they can work nicely. However, what most voice actors try to do is use it for their studio and then it just becomes the only thing that is used, and it becomes very close to the mic. And first of all, they're really bulky on the stands. I had something called a reflection filter and I paid a good amount of money for it. And like 300 some odd dollars and that was 10 years ago.    Gillian: Wow.    Anne: And it was very bulky. It weighted my microphone stand in a way that kept falling over. And then also it did not create the kind of sound absorption that I liked because it wasn't enough. It just wasn't enough. And then it became inhibitive in a way because I felt like I had something like right here in front of my face. It was very close, and I feel like it just didn't do a good enough job 'cause I think your absorption material needs to be thick.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: And so when they make the reflection filters, it's either thick or even if it's not thick, then it's not enough absorption, I don't believe. One thing that I learned through the years of going through, I'm gonna say, three or four different versions of a home studio is -- and by the way, the window, believe it or not, my studio right now is built in an office. It's a room within a room and right in in front of me.    Gillian: Great.    Anne: A room in a room is great.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: Right in front of me is a wall that had a side window on it. And we actually, before we built the studio, we frosted the window so it wouldn't look silly because we had a studio in front of it, and people would just look at a piece of plywood or (laughs), you know, so it wasn't attractive. So we frosted the window and then we actually put Rockwool insulation and then a drywall on the out. So we created a whole encasement for the window.    Gillian: Wow.    Anne: So that that blocked any potential sound that could potentially get in. And then we put the studio right up against it. And so that's how we blocked our window. So we made sure there was absolutely no way that sound could get in from the outside on these walls. So it's a room within a room. And so my acoustic panels are four inches thick. And they have Rockwool insulation and that's something you can get at Home Depot. It's awesome. It's really cost effective. It's not expensive. And these were all DIY panels that were made. And I'm gonna give a big shout out to Tim Tippetts. He's got a great YouTube video on how to make them. They're all four inches thick and they sit just slightly off the wall.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: So that way you have a little bit of spacing in between the panels and the wall for the sound to kind of just -- if it bounces on that wall, it'll come back in through the panel, which is four inches thick. So that you get I think the highest amount of sound absorption that you can using the panels. And if they aren't using the panels and they're using blankets, again, those blankets are giving you a certain level of absorption. Not quite as much I think as the four inch thick panels with Rockwool in there, but again, it's your choice. And I hang them everywhere. I have a ton of them in here. I also have clouds that are up above me with the same kind of thing. And then outside of my studio, because I want the outside of my studio to be quiet as well, I also have panels hung out there as well.    Gillian: See, that is just like an impressive setup, and thank you, Tim Tippetts. I know he was the previous BOSS audio guest, and that's awesome that he did all of those things for your studio. And that's just what I would say the difference between a Pro VO setup and a beginner VO setup. You gotta start somewhere, and I think that isolation is really important. And obviously, any advice we give, and this will be what I keep saying on the series, is just take what we say and apply it to your situation. Because unless we're working one-on-one, like either Anne or I working with you, there's no way to know exactly what your situation is.    But when you're starting out, I think that — I mean even if a few people built those things that Tim has a video on it and built those panels and just had them in your home office, behind you, around you, it'll help. You don't need to start with a room within a room, even though that's an amazing setup and it sounds great. And all studios are built with rooms within rooms and floating floors so that there's no sound coming from the outside world. But yeah, I think we got a really good foundation of home studio verse pro studio, how to get your space set up. And I think on the next episode, we should really dive in for the BOSSes on like what you need for a beginner home studio setup. What do you think?    Anne: Absolutely. So guys, when you are thinking about getting into voice acting, you must also think about where in your home is a good place for that studio, because you can have an amazing voice, but if you can't deliver the audio, a good quality audio to your client, you're not gonna be a very successful voice actor. So absolutely very important. But one thing I will say to give you all hope, in case you're overwhelmed at this point, is that once you get a home studio setup, like I have a home studio setup, you're pretty much good to go. I mean, your stress is over. You don't have to worry about it much after that, outside of your equipment failing, but your space, if your space is set up, it's set up, right?    Gillian: The investment is forever.    Anne: Right? Yeah. Foregoing any kind of natural disaster, right, or emergency, it stands and it will absorb your sound appropriately, and you won't have to worry about it again. So that's what I love (laughs).    Gillian: Yeah. And I love, Anne, all you shared with me because obviously I work in all these big studios, but I can't say that I've been given a tour of anyone's booth yet (laughs). So you know, hearing how you set it up and all of those things, I think it'd be great for BOSSes to know, and you taught me a little bit today too.    Anne: Awesome. Well, Gillian, thank you so much. I'm looking forward to our next episode. BOSSes, simple mission, big impact, 100 voices, one hour, $10,000 four times a year. BOSSes, visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to join in. All right. Also, a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes, like Gillian and I; find out more at ipdtl.com. Thanks so much, guys. We'll see you next week. Bye.    Gillian: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Long before you lay eyes on your next script, you should be thinking about how your improv skills can help you stand out. Anne & Lau share their practical advice for integrating improv into your voice over work + act out some improved scenes for the Bosses! Improv is about being in the moment and responding to what is happening around you. Rehearsed speech sounds unnatural and stilted because it doesn't reflect the way people actually speak. If a script is written the way you'd like it to be written, great! But if it isn't written that way, then it is still your responsibility to make it believable. Improv requires imagination & creativity, which are both important elements of succeeding as a voice actor. Bosses, your voices are vehicles for storytelling, emotion, and world building.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have with me my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides.    Lau: Hey Anne.    Anne: Hey Lau. How are you?    Lau: I'm awesome. Great to be back.    Anne: Ah, it's good to have you back Lau.    Lau: Okay, here's the situation. Ready? Here we go. You just bought a car, and you're picking it up for the first time. They even sprayed that new car smell. And it's shining and gorgeous. Had a little bow on top. Give me a moment of pre-life. Like what's the exclamation you make before you speak?    Anne: (screams) Oh my God, I'm so excited! I can't wait to get my car today!    Lau: Oh, and I would do this. I would go, ooooh, I'm so excited. I can't wait to get my car today.    Anne: I think it was important. I had some good physicality back there behind my mic here.    Lau: We both did. We both were like exploding.    Anne: So what is that, BOSSes? What are we talking about? Mmm?   Lau: Mmm, I think that's improv city right there. Improv.    Anne: Improv. So, so important to everything we do. I'm gonna say so important because, it really helps us. Would you say Lau, 90%, if not more, of casting specs are calling for believable, authentic, real? And I think honestly, in order for us to be real (laughs), improv is so very important to be able to create what's happening in the scene, your reaction, your emotion. I mean, that's really what makes us stand out from all the other people auditioning. Right?    Lau: Right. I mean, speakers in the larger world outside of our industry, call it impromptu speaking, being able to think off the cuff, think on your feet, being able to think on the fly. Every time you hear someone say that, we know it's a tough skill for people. We know it's not a natural ability for most people to be under these unnatural circumstances and just think on the fly. Right? But it's a great tool, right, for voiceover talent to be able to do that.    Anne: And you need it for everything. Guys, I don't want you to think that this is just for, I don't know, video games or character animation. You need improv for everything you do, including medical narration. Just saying. I'm like the biggest proponent of being in the scene, because we are so used to -- I think, those of you that just got into voiceover and you don't necessarily have acting experience — we're so used to picking up a piece of paper with words and reading the words out loud, and listen to what I just said. We're used to taking a look at the piece of paper and reading the words out loud. And that's what you don't wanna do, right, as a voiceover actor. You want to be in a scene. You want to sound as if you are there and speaking authentically and naturally and believably.    And so you can't just pick up a piece of paper with words that you've never seen before and just read them from left to right. You always have to put yourself in a scene. And that includes -- gosh, when I'm doing telephony script, and I'm saying thank you for calling. Like I put myself in a scene. I want people to really feel as though I'm thankful that they've called me (laughs). And improv helps me do that.    Lau: Yes. And you know, a lot of times people will say to me, but Lau, I don't get it. Like, I can't improv as a voiceover talent. Everything is scripted. They're never gonna ask me to improv when I'm auditioning or when I'm doing a gig. So why do I need to know this? I say, well, wait a second. What about all your prep time? You and I were just talking about this, Anne, how important it is to think of yourselves as an actor. You're a voice actor; you're acting a role. So when you're acting, you have to have technique, tools and technique to call upon to find your character development. How do I find that? So improvisation is a tool that helps us find the authentic, true character, sound, connection, quality, tones. It helps us find that. And then once we find it, we can pull it out like just outta your toolbox. You can pull it out whenever you wanna use it. And just that exercise we just did right now, the pre-life of exclamation, just that can potentially book you a gig.    Anne: Oh gosh, yes. And it's so interesting because I tell my students all the time, I'm like, okay, what's your moment before? Right? And I could be referencing a script that is the driest corporate narration script in the world. And it makes no sense because in the real world, I would never say these words. And that's what I constantly get from -- I would never say these words in the real world. But okay, we're not in the real world. Okay? We're acting. And we need to create the world in which those words would sound natural. And even if they're not written naturally, you have to create the scene.    And that I think, is so important. You're not preparing the script to sound a particular way. You can read the specs, and they're like, oh, we want youthful, millennial, or maybe sound with gravitas. Stop preparing that sound. What you need to do is to prepare the character, prepare the scene, prepare what's happening that's going to make you react, right, in such a way. that might portray those characteristics that are being called out. And I have so many students that get frustrated. I'll say, what's your moment before? And they'll be like, uh, I have no clue. Like, doesn't say anything in the script. Guess what, guys? Here's where you got — your imagination comes into play, right?    Lau: Yes.    Anne: So important. The imagination in developing a scene, develop a scene that makes sense to you.    Lau: Yes. And improv is an acting tool. It's an actor technique. And it's very challenging to do improv and be lazy. Like you can't be lazy and do improv well, because you're talking imagination. It has to kick in and connect. And oftentimes that requires energy, focus and speed in order to do that. And it's hard to do it if you're not engaged, if you're tired, if you're lazy, if you're disconnected. We oftentimes will get feedback for an actor from like casting that will say, ah, I don't like it. They feel disconnected, they don't feel connected somehow. And I always think of improv, 'cause improv is a wonderful source of connection to another person. How do we credibly and authentically connect to another person? Well, we practice it. It sounds like an oxymoron. You have to practice improv, but you do. You do.    Anne: You do. Absolutely.   Lau: You have to practice that skill. Right, Anne?    Anne: Absolutely. And the improv doesn't just happen at the beginning of the script. It's not just something you do to give yourself some pre-roll. Okay? Because if you start a script, and I say this constantly, especially with long format narration, when you are voicing something for a long period of time, you're in a scene, you need to stay in that scene. You can't just create the scene and then just read. Right? Because all too often people will create the scene, they'll be at the start of it, and then they will do a monologue. It becomes a monologue where they forget that there might be other things happening in the scene, or there might be other people in the scene that they're acting with. And just because they're behind the mic, right, and they're not physically there -- like if they were on stage, it would be easy to see that you're with somebody, right? And you're bouncing ideas off of somebody, and it's a back and forth, like a real improv class or a workshop.    But behind the mic, I think we tend to forget that there's other people in that scene with us. There's other things happening. There's movement. And if you are in a monologue, right -- I feel like monologues, unless they're extremely well written, right, are not as engaging (laughs) unless they're extremely well written. There are a lot of scripts that are not necessarily written for monologue. Right? It's like, here's my speech on this product, and you know what I mean? Like, here's my monologue about the product. Now how engaging is that? Right? If somebody's not interested in the product, you have to get them interested in the product. It has to be a story. And that story has to happen in between the sentences too. Right? You cannot stop just at the beginning.    Lau: Okay, I have a great improv. I have a great improv based off what you just said. All right. Peeps, listen in. Sell the product, whatever it is that is on your script. Sell the product or service. And do it completely in your own words. Like get rid of the script. Completely re-envision it. But remember, it's not just about saying the words or the lines. You have to persuade us. Like you have to make it feel like this is something that's super important to you, that you believe in and that you want us to know about. Right? So whether it's like a blouse or a car, or a cheese, or whatever it is, I would love to hear you talk about that from your own perspective, your own point of view, and really connect to it. And a lot of times, I know you get this, Anne, in coaching too, “but I don't, I don't eat cheese,” “I don't wear blouses; I'm a guy,” and“I don't drive cars.” Especially like that.    Anne: Yeah. I don't care much about the brand. I always get people that say, yeah, no, I don't really worry about brands. I'm like, okay. But for a living, you might be selling a particular brand. And so it's important, right, that you're educated about the brand, or you have to have some interest in it. You have to have some passion in it. And by passion, I don't mean overextended passion or over the top passion, unless it's called for, right, in the script. Because a lot of times for us to be believable and authentic, we have to sound authentic. So am I constantly like, oh my God, this product is amazing! I mean, I can't be that. Right? I can't. But I need to be as authentic as I can in my improv, right, in selling that product.    Lau: Well, you know, we should do, Anne? We should demo, we should do a quick demo. We should take something like a, an object, a simple object. We should have like a a 15 or 30-second conversation about that object.    Anne: Okay. So I always (laughs), I always have my lipstick. Okay. I always have my product here.    Lau: Okay. And the listener, maybe someone who doesn't wear a lipstick or doesn't care about lipstick, or maybe you're a man listening in, you don't ever -- okay, that's fine. But we're gonna have a conversation right now, Anne, about that. And it's all improv, right?    Anne: Okay, okay. So Lau. All right, so this Chanel, okay, typically inexpensive brand, right? Typically, most people will say, oh, it's way — this, this lipstick might be way overpriced. However, for me, I love this lipstick. I love this lipstick because I only have to put it on once. And so to me, the savings of time for this is amazing. I don't have to continually reapply my lipstick. I can drink water, I can eat, and I don't have to put it on over and over again. And it just stays on and it looks good. What are your thoughts? Would you, would you pay, would you pay $34 for this?    Lau: I would pay more than that, because I'm looking at it on your lips right now, and it's gorgeous. I love the gloss, I love the staying power. The color matches your skin tone perfectly.    Anne: And look, I can drink.    Lau: I love it. And you can drink, right? And it probably doesn't even leave residue on the cup.   Anne: And it's still there. And it doesn't feel dry.    Lau: It's still there.    Anne: It doesn't feel dry.    Lau: And I think it's economical for what it's offering you.    Anne: Well, right?   Lau: I would get it.    Anne: My time is worth money, right? And if it, and if this is gonna save me time, right, from reapplying lipstick, or if it's gonna give me confidence because I feel like, oh God, you know how some lipstick will just kind of, you know, come off your lips, and you'll only have like a portion of on your lips, and then all of a sudden you get in the car and you look at yourself in the rearview mirror and you're like, oh my God! (laughs), my lips look horrible.    Lau: They're gone.   Anne: Why didn't, why didn't my best friend tell me about that? So this, I don't have to worry about that. And so the ease, my mind being eased that I don't have to worry that it's come off and it's flaked off and it looks weird, or it's, God forbid, it's on my teeth. (laughs). No, it doesn't happen.    Lau: You took the words right outta my mouth. I was gonna say, your lipstick is never on your teeth. I'm impressed by that alone, and the fact that it's not all over your face like mine can be, by the end of the day, my lips are all over, you know, everywhere. So I, I just think that it's very cool for you to hold on to this and not go to other products, but really stay with it. Because it works, right?    Anne: Have I convinced you?    Lau: Now here's the thing. It's like, we do this in our daily life, right? We do this every day in our daily life.    Anne: That was improv. That was -- by the way, BOSSes, that was improv by the way.    Lau: That's all improv.    Anne: And that, I think if you are absolutely thinking about how would I sell this product? Like how would I voice this product? I mean, you can just riff (laughs), you know, I really love this product because it's amazing. And the funny thing is, is that Lau, you and I had a back and forth. And I think for improv, you have to also improv, if you don't have anybody with you and you are trying to improv your audition, I think you create that second person that you're having the conversation with. It's very much a technique that I use to sound conversational and just sound natural or believable, is to actually play a part with somebody else.    Because that's what you would do -- if you had a script and you were on stage, you'd be able to bounce your ideas back and forth. There would be an acknowledgement or a smile, or a nod or a conversation between two people. And so you have that movement, you have that scene that you can then improv, right? And once you improv, your voice takes on, especially like with you and I, it takes on the emotion and the point of view, which really, really brings out a script versus a read. This lipstick is wonderful, right? Versus, I mean, I'm like a robot saying that, but when I'm really like, oh, this is amazing, this is wonderful — it completely shows up in my voice. And so the fact that I've created in my mind this improv back and forth with my imaginary person that I'm telling about this lipstick is really makes all the difference.    Lau: It does. It does, Anne, because that's the power of improv. It's the personalization of it. When you're gonna say to me, but I don't use lipstick, Lau. I don't wear makeup -- I'd say, that's okay. Now let's engage your imagination. What if, — the magic “what if,” right? Stanislavsky's magic if -- what if you did wear makeup? What if you did wear lipstick? You know, when you were a little kid, you thought that way. And you weren't wearing lipstick or makeup (laughs).That's the irony, right?    Anne: And here's the deal. Transfer this lipstick into, let's say, a Halloween costume, right? You put green on your face if you were gonna be be the Incredible Hulk or, whatever that is, right? So consider that, make that part of your imaginative world, right? And how did that make you feel? I think there's always that, like, did it make you feel confident? Did it make you feel good? Were you excited to go show that off to your friends? And how does that translate in your voice? How does that make you sound — first of all, it's gonna make you sound connected, right?    Because when you're disconnected from the material, right, there's no emotion flowing in that voice. There's no emotion in that word. There's so many technical things that happen to words when you inflect an emotion onto them, or a point of view, right? So it's like, this is amazing. Like just the fact, amazing. Like I, it's not like I didn't say, this is amazing. No. I said, this is amazing. And so the rhythm changed, the intonation changed, so many technical things changed about my voice. And that is something when a casting director is listening to you, right? That is going to hit their ears and go, ah, there's an actor. And I swear to God, right? We know, for the first few words out of the mouth, we know if you're acting.    Lau: Oh, yeah.    Anne: Right?    Lau: Oh, yeah. And start with something that is known to you, personalize it to you, like give yourself a quick scenario that you lived, that you know, if it's possible. So let's go back to the lipstick, Anne. Let's say I'm a man, right? Or someone who doesn't wear lipstick or whatever. Okay. But my favorite aunt wears lipstick, and every time she would kiss me, I would literally smell it. I would smell the lipstick, I would notice the color of it. I always think of that color when I think of my aunt. So I'm personalizing it into something I know, and something that means something to me so that I can go into other scenarios that are a bit farther away from me.    Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely.   Lau: But if I don't start with any frame of reference at all, then I get that falseness, I get that falsehood of like, let me just sound like I love lipstick.    Anne: This lipstick — yeah, exactly. And I think that voice actors, if you're just getting into the industry and you're not realizing just how important this is to really make your auditions stand out and make you connect with the copy -- it's incredibly, incredibly important that you spend time. Like I know so many people are like, oh, I did 60 auditions today, or I did a billion auditions today. Well, I want you to take five minutes before you start, before anything comes out of your mouth (laughs). And I want you to first of all, research the product. If you know what the product is. Sometimes you don't know what the product is. Sometimes the script is obscure and you're not exactly sure what it is. And that makes it even more challenging for you to improv, right? Because you're trying to figure out what is this even talking about? And I know that's just the case for a lot of audition scripts that come along and we don't know what it's even talking about.    So then what we have to do is look at that script even closer. Every single word on that script has a meaning. And it may seem that you have no idea what it's talking about, and it's ridiculous. But honestly, somebody was paid probably a lot of money (laughs) to sit there and write every single word to create that brand message or to get that brand message out. And you need to really look at those words and think, what do they mean? What could it mean? And can I improv a scene, right, so that they would sound logical and realistic and have meaning and create emotion?   Lau: Absolutely. And let's say you don't do this at all. Let's say you say, I can't do improv at all. I can just do the lines --do this. This is a very famous actor method. Do substitution. Like how do I get to something personal? Let me take this little thing of lipstick. I have my own on my side, lipstick on my side. And this is no longer a lipstick. What this is to me is an EpiPen. So this EpiPen can save my child's life when she has a problem and get stung by a bee. And you say, well, how does that work? It's lipstick. I said, well, I can still do an improv with Anne and talk about this as if it's an EpiPen, but it'll sound like, I can't live without this. I really can't live without this. I always have this in my cabinet ready to go. Day or night, it goes with me. And you'd think I was talking about the lipstick. But I'm really talking about the EpiPen.    Anne: Sure, absolutely.    Lau: Try that in terms of your improv in your daily life, when you need to connect with someone's situation, someone's stuff that they're bringing up that you don't really have any idea about. You haven't lived through it, you don't use it. You don't know about it. And you ask them questions about it. But think about what that is to you in your life. What's the substitution in your life that connects to what they're talking about? That's how powerful improv can be. It can make you friends. It can win you jobs. It can make you a lot of money.   Anne: And something else that can help you -- I feel like I see this every episode, Lau — Google is your friend. Anne GanGoogle, right? Google is your friend. Like if you, if there's any indication of what you're talking about in the script, or there's words in there that you're not sure what it's even about, Google. I mean, I can't tell you how helpful it is to --if you're not familiar with the brand and the brand name is there, you can go to the website, and you'll get a great visual representation of what that is and who they might serve. And that will also help you to place your improv and place your scene in a place that's logical.    I mean, it has to be logical, right? I mean, you want it to sound natural and believable. And so you should have a little bit of education about the product or the company, or maybe what's their demographic? Are they selling to young people? Are they selling to a more mature audience? And that can help inform the scene for you that you are going to create. But you must, you must use your brain. And it's not easy, right? It is sometimes it is. Like I rack my brain trying to figure out what is this saying? Like I don't even know. This is so ethereal and so out there that I don't even know what this is saying. But I, I find that if I keep rereading the lines, somewhere along the line, if I look at the important nouns, if I look at the objects, if I look at the emotion of it all, I can really read more into it to try to figure out, okay, this would make sense. Now, if this was a storyline where somebody was upset that something wasn't going right, and this product -- like the EpiPen, right -- was truly meaningful and could really help save a life.    And so I think if you just continually look at the words, see how the words fit together, and then if you have any clues whatsoever in the script, go ahead and Google it. And that's gonna help you find out maybe what the brand is. What do they actually do? Do they serve multiple demographics? What are the colors? I mean, you can just go into like the visually, what are the colors on the website? What is their tone of voice on the webpage? You know, the verbiage on the webpage? How do they approach their clients? And I think that will really help to help you build the scene that you must improv.    Lau: Yeah. And if you go to their YouTube channel, you're gonna see visuals of what the culture is like, what the sound, feeling, environment is like. I mean, put yourself in that environment. That's the old actor Johnny Depp type exercise where the method actors would always go to the place that their character is in and just feel what the place feels like. Well that's kind of important because if I'm doing a lot of corporate work, and I'm getting a lot of corporate narration or corporate scripts, and I've never worked in corporate America, and I have no idea what it's like, just go somewhere, be in a big tall glass building with people who wear suits and see what it feels like, right? See what they eat and drink, hear how they talk. Or just go to a Starbucks. You'll see 'em in Starbucks, hear how they talk. So that you're not necessarily mimicking them, but you're getting an essence, a suggestion of where you wanna head towards that may be very different from your world and your existence. You wanna talk the lingo, have a sense of that.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely. You wanna be able to align to the environment, right? And I think, Lau, if I said to you, is improv important in promos?    Lau: Improv is important in everything,    Anne: Right. So why? I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm thinking my students would be like, yeah, but you don't really need to improv in a promo, or you don't need to improv when you're doing a phone system. And I would tend to disagree with you heartily. I think improv is needed everywhere. I'd like your take on that, Lau.    Lau: I agree. As I said, I think it's an immense tool to find your interpretation. Like if I'm gonna give more than one take, or let's say I'm just dealing with an in-house client. I'm not auditioning; they're just calling me and I'm giving them takes, I'm gonna say, wait a second, who's calling? Like, who are the people that are calling? What if I have an impatient person calling going to the system, right? I have a person who's a seller or pitcher calling? What if I have a young teenage person calling the system? How am I coming across to them? How would I speak to them differently and what their different needs are? That would be an improv tool that I would start to be utilizing in that telephony or whatever system.   Anne: And if you're a voice for a healthcare system, right? Okay, somebody's calling for an appointment, right? They're nervous, they're not feeling well, or you know what I mean? They want the results of their test. Understand who it is that you are going to be talking to, right, and then talk to them. I always say that when I read the back of pharmaceutical labels, I do medical narration, and I want to be able to speak to that person who is nervously looking at the back of the bottle and saying, oh my God, I have all of these symptoms. That's me, by the way. I have every single symptom ever known. And who do I call in case I die? That kind of thing. I'm taking that lightly, but I really do think about the person that's going to be looking at this bottle and what I'm voicing and I'm improv-ing, right? I'm playing that scene out in my head so that I can voice it better.    And so that's for medical narration, and for promos, you know, tonight, like if you're doing like a television promos, right? Still, you've gotta get into the mindset of who's the audience that watches this show, and how can you -- hey, oh my God, did you catch the latest episode of — that kind of thing? You've got to get into their mindset 'cause you're talking to them. And that is where improv will come into play, right? Know that network, know that show. Be the person that watches that show and talk to them.    Lau: And if anything, if you don't believe in anything we're saying, just talk and listen to people talking because that's one big, huge improvisation. Conversation is just one big, huge improv. Life is one big, huge improv 'cause we don't really know what's coming up next. So you don't have to perform, you don't have to act, you don't have to do anything other than listen, observe and communicate. Because then you're improv-ing.    Anne: And I will tell you that every other month, or at least once a quarter, if you join the VO Peeps, we do have a workshop that covers improv. We do it. I think it's necessary to continually just keep your skills up. And I know, Lau, I'm sure you have something is part of your group as well?   Lau: We do. We have a Monday night improv mania that runs. It's a lot of actors, a lot of VO talent. A lot of people come in, even just people who are in business come in and they just want to --   Anne: And it's so much fun.    Lau: Fun. Yeah. They wanna free themselves, wanna be free.    Anne: And that's the thing. Yeah, improv should be fun. It shouldn't be stressful. And the only way that you're gonna make it fun is by doing it really. And just getting yourself used to it and getting those responses quicker and quicker and quicker. And thinking off the cuff. And it will always help you especially — I've just had a conversation with Dave Fennoy talking about video games. You know, the storyline and video games is constantly evolving and changing. Improv is huge. You may prepare your character for one set of scenes, and then when you get to the studio to record somebody's changed the script on you. And that could be for video games, that could be for commercial, it could be for any script where you might have last minute changes. So I think it's so important, guys, that we are well-versed in improv, know how important it is and go out there and practice it.    Lau: I love it. Here we go. Ready for the improv of life.   Anne: The Improv of life. You guys, I'm gonna give a great big sponsor shout-out to ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And I also want to give a shout-out to 100 Voices Who Care. This is your chance to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. Thanks so much, guys. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Ever wanted to know what it takes to create a TV pilot? In this special episode, Anne is joined by Scott & Miranda Parkin to discuss Comet Casino. Comet Casino is a story centered around found family. It talks about those relationships & friendships that grow so near and dear that they feel like family. Scott & Miranda voice two of the characters, but were heavily involved in the creation of the show. From planning out the story to animating, Miranda was in charge and excited about this mid-century modern tale. After two year, the pilot episode is ready & shipped out to all the right people. So what's next for the duo? There may be more planning, creating, and meeting taking in their future…but you have to listen up to hear the whole story.    Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited and pumped to have the Comet Casino team here with us, special guests Scott and Miranda Parkin. You guys, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Yay!   Scott: Thank you so much for having me. You were an early supporter of this. (inaudible) merch on your show, you donated money, and now we're in the pitch phase. So we really owe a great debt of gratitude to the VO BOSS.   Miranda: Yeah, seriously.    Anne: Well, thank you. Thank you. I mean, it's not hard to support and love what you guys are doing. So for those BOSSes out there who may not be familiar with the famous Comet Casino team, I thought we would start with a little bit of an introduction of each of you so that the BOSSes can get to know you a little bit better. So let's start with Scott,‘cause he's older. (laughs) So Scott, I mean actor, amazing improv instructor, voice actor, I mean everything. Tell us how you got started in the industry and where it's going (laughs) and your life.    Miranda: And your social security number.    Anne: Yes.    Scott: No, that's horrible. That's horrible advice.  I'm from Sacramento, California, and I started in radio when I was in college. I interned at KCAP, the home of rock. When I was around 20, 18, 19 in that sort of range, I was able to weasel my way onto the air with a guy named Kevin Anderson. He got fired, but he made a tape of the time we were together, sent it to Tulsa, Oklahoma. They had us come out for an audition. They asked me if I'd ever been to Oklahoma. And at the time I said, uh, the furthest east I've been is the Nevada side of Heavenly Valley, dude. And that is literally how we all spoke in Northern California. You were more like this, like, are you gonna put change on your car before you go to Tahoe?    Went out there to Oklahoma and did that. And then I got fired again. Came back to Sacramento, got a gig in Dallas, was there for 11 years, got married, got — moved to Los Angeles in, I wanna say ‘98. Had a kid in 2000, got divorced in 2003, done voiceover and writing for television and acting, and I always say you gotta hit it from every angle possible, so I'll do most of the stuff that they'll pay creative wise. So Miranda's been raised on TV sets and in voiceover lobbies and all that. And she started in the business when she was about five.    Miranda: Pretty crazy.    Anne: So, yeah. So Miranda, let's talk about that because you did grow up in the business. Yeah. I'm so excited again to actually see you and talk with you. And so tell us how you kind of got started, and was this something that, because you were around it for all the time when you were small, is it something that you loved right away, or did you kind of grow into it?    Miranda: Well, I mean, I feel like I loved it first because I was like, oh, I just really love reading. Like I love reading out loud. Like that very much fun.    Scott: Nerd!   Miranda: Shut up.    Anne: That was me too. That was me too.    Scott: Yeah.    Miranda: I liked reading out loud. So when they were like, “hey, do you wanna read this thing out loud,” a little five year old? And I was like, yeah, of course I wanna read that thing out loud. So I did. And then I was like, oh, oh, they like it when I do that. That's cool. I like that. You know, I was five, so I didn't really know, but it just made me feel happy, you know? Like I've always loved reading out loud. And then I got paid to talk about SeaWorld, and I'm like, I love animals and I love talking about whales, like of course I, I'm gonna do that.    Anne: Was this when you were five or a little bit later on?    Miranda: A little bit later on because I started when I was five, and then it was kind of went until eight or nine I think. I think nine was when I, I got the --    Scott: When the hammer got dropped.    Miranda: Yeah. Yeah. I got the job of, uh, Lucy in a direct to DVD Peanuts movie. And my mom was like, no, you can't do that. So I was like, oh, alright. I really like reading out loud. I really like the Peanuts.    Scott: But her dad was a voiceover actor, and anything that had something to do with me was --   Anne: Ah.   Scott: Yeah.   Anne: Okay. So there's the six degrees here I think because you said Lucy, right? You read for the —    Miranda: Right.   Anne: Okay. So my maiden name is Lucy. Okay?   Scott: Excellent. Is that true?    Anne: Yes, it's very true. It's very, because people called me Miss Lucy when I was a teacher, and then they would sing, Miss Lucy had a steamboat. The steamboat had a bell. Exactly.    Scott: I forgot you were a teacher. My mom was a teacher for 35 years. I have I have so many teachers throughout our family.    Anne: Well, so that's number one. And number two is that when I was young, when I was about six, when I was in kindergarten, I love to read out loud as well. And here's where my claim to fame, my creative claim to fame is that I wrote books. I wrote books about Nibbles the Rabbit. And as a kindergartner, I read them to the first graders. So that's my claim to fame. I mean, I --   Miranda: Kind of a power move.    Anne: I mean, so Miranda, if I could only be half as good of, and I illustrated and wrote, and you know what I mean? Which is, that's incredible.    Miranda: That's, that's amazing.    Anne: You do everything. And so I just feel like the apple doesn't far fall from the tree there, I think; the writer, artist, voice actor, actor.   Scott: I can't draw a stick figure without uh, without help. So.   Miranda: That's true. He can draw a palm tree and a lightning bolt.    Anne: There you go. Very good.    Scott: And I can draw an oak tree too though.    Miranda: And an oak tree. Oak tree. Sorry, forgot about that. One of the three.    Scott: Yeah.   Anne: I got good at drawing a rabbit as a kindergarten. But other than that --    Miranda: Nibbles the rabbit.    Anne: — that's kind of where it stopped. Although I always was in awe of people who could draw. And so I want to actually talk about Comet Casino because that's really why I wanted to bring you here so that we can talk about the whole process. Because BOSSes out there, if you're listening, the whole concept of Comet Casino is BOSS from start to as it evolves. Because you have encompassed all areas of the creative arts, all areas of funding, of marketing, of starting something and seeing it grow and seeing it evolve. So I love the evolution of Comet Casino. So before we do that, let me show the BOSSes a little preview of what we have here. So let's do this first.    Scott: Can we set it up real quick?    Anne: Yeah. Let, we're gonna set it up right now.    Scott: This is not a trailer. There's no voiceover or anything like that. This is the first 90 seconds of the pilot, and the shuttle attendant is the lovely great Delisle Griffin. And we love it. And so you get an idea of where our story takes place, who are the principals, and what's going on in the first 90 seconds. The whole thing, the whole pilot presentation is just over 10 minutes. There you go.    Miranda: Yeah, there we go.    Anne: All right. We're gonna give you guys the first 90 seconds. All right. Here we go.    >> Attention passengers. We will be landing shortly on Luparif Omari, please return to your seats. If you've morphed during the flight, please regenerate and buckle up. Okay? And remember, as long as you look like you're gambling, they gotta keep bringing you drinks. Good luck.    >> Luparif Omari. Everybody knows it as the loop. Number one adult playground in the galaxy and the armpit of the fucking universe. Everyone is thrilled when they get here and broken, disillusioned when they leave. That's just after a weekend. I spent the first 18 years of my life here. On the loop, after high school, you pretty much have three choices: bartending school, dealer school or alcoholic gambler. I wanted something more. So I went to law school on the nearest planet. After graduation I took a really good job as a defense attorney. It's difficult and none of it comes easy, but okay, it's somewhere else, and that's all that matters.    So what am I doing back here? My dad, owner of the formerly luxurious Comet Casino passed away. How? Uh, he just stopped breathing while a guy was choking him to death, which on the loop is considered natural causes. The loop is 100 miles of casinos, clubs, and general debauchery crammed into a thin band of oxygen. Everything else is toxic. My dad used to drop off associates in the desert when it was time for them to die of natural causes.    >> Hurry. Hurry, everyone.    Anne: Haha, awesome. I love it. And can I tell you that honestly, when I first heard it, I love the beginning, right, with the introduction. But Miranda, when you start telling the story, I teach like storytelling to students for years. And you have such a beautiful, wonderful presentation of storytelling in that, like it is so damn impressive.    Miranda: Hey, I used to love reading stories out loud. Now I do it all the time.    Anne: If Scott knows me, I don't say that lightly. I love, love the performance.    Scott: That's not — this whole thing, this has been two years in the making, and we directed all these legends who are friends of ours and have always supported Miranda. And if Miranda wasn't able to hold their own with these legends, it doesn't work. All of what we've done, it just doesn't work. So.   Miranda: That was one thing that I got scared about. Like I know literally like after we like got all these people to do it, and they were like, all right, now it's time to record your part. And I'm like, oh, I have to actually, I have to go up against these — oh my God. Not, not go up against, but like work with, like be in the same cartoon as, and I'm like, oh my God, that's like a dream come true regardless of where this thing goes.    Scott: Yes. And frightening as hell. And same for me. ‘Cause Miranda actually does video games and animation. I don't do so much of either of those. So after asking these people and then having to, you know, what was really cool was that we recorded our parts at SoundBox LA with Tim Friedlander. So first Miranda and Tim directed me, and then we switched, and Tim and I directed Miranda. So that was really, it was really cool. And he's been so supportive and known Miranda for a very long time. So it was, it was just really cool to do our parts at Tim's with Tim directing.    Miranda: Yeah. ‘Cause he's such a good friend and such a great dude. And he supported it all the way through. It just seemed like a natural fit.    Anne: So let's talk about, how did it all start?    Miranda: Ooh, ooh, ooh. I've got this one.    Anne: Okay.    Scott: Keep it tight and bright.    Miranda: So essentially it started as an FBI agent gets teleported into space and works off her debt at a space casino. So that was like our initial idea. And I wanted to do something    Scott: That was all Miranda's --   Miranda: Yeah. And then I was like, okay, well the FBI thing is kind of silly, stupid. Let's just go with a mother-daughter story about a girl that actually lives in the casino and went to the casino and like lived at the casino, and her mom was the boss and she had to come back. And then we were just like, okay, let's cut the mom. Because I don't know how to tell a mother daughter story. I know how to tell a father-daughter story. So let's make a father-daughter story about a dysfunctional --   Scott: Well Miranda, you have to be honest, Ed Jager, our head writer and 23 year veteran television writer came in and said, I'm killing the mom. There's no story there. It's a father-daughter story. It's all about the daughter. Going away. Wanting to get the hell outta home, and then having to come back and then finding out that, ah, you know what? I hate this place, but I work here. It works. I have a connection here, and I'm really good at all the jobs I'm doing. It's the Joan Didian. You can't go home but you, maybe you can kind of thing.  Does that make sense?    Miranda: See the thing is like at the beginning of it, it morphed and switched. But I always wanted to make it a space casino. Always, always, always.    Anne: But then, let me backtrack here. So you're telling me the beginnings of the story, but what's the beginnings of the idea, Miranda? Was it something that you said, I wanna create? So not many people in this industry, and I know BOSSes out there, this is the whole enchilada, this is the writing, the artistry, the production, the casting. So did you just one day say, I wanna make a show like (laughs)?    Scott: We pitch ideas back and forth and have written a bunch of stuff, but Miranda always said that whenever they go animated shows, they have an episode at a casino. But I forget how you said it, M, I'm sorry.    Miranda: So like in a lot of sci-fi media, there's always like a one-off episode with a casino. Like in Cowboy Bebop, there's a one-off episode with a space casino. In Star Wars, they go to a space casino in one of the newest Star Wars movies. In like Rick and Morty, they go to a Dave and Busters type thing called Blips and Shits. And I'm just like, why don't you stay there? There's so much potential. You have beings from all over the galaxy. You know, you have people that go to Vegas for conventions. You've got people that go to Vegas in sororities. You have gangsters and mobsters and bachelor parties    Anne: I love it.   Scott: Corporate convention. Always bringing different people. And if you put it out in space, 200 years in the future, the hell knows what --   Anne: Right. So many stories. I mean, I think so many stories can evolve from that. So yeah, there's longevity there. Yeah.    Scott: The other thing we really liked was the found family because Miranda's been, was at my house from age 16 on solo and moved out two years ago. So big on found family. At my house growing up there was always an extra person. Somebody that just got divorced or some teenager had been kicked out of their house. So we're big on found family. A found family is such a lovely story. You can take in so many different directions, and in Miranda's situation, it's right here, found family.   Miranda: But also it's relatable to everyone. Whether you have a good relationship with your parents or not, you always have friends. You know, friends are the family that you choose. I know it's cheesy, but everyone can relate to it. Everyone has a friend that you feel like you're a sibling.    Anne: So then you had this idea that you wanted to do this. The two of you were bouncing ideas and then you said, yes, this sounds amazing. Let's get a writer. Like what happened after that? Just get a writer involved.    Scott: Like I said, we've had multiple ideas, and I think they're very solid ideas, but Miranda is a voracious performer and artist. They like to keep going and going and going. So if we didn't get something with legs on it early, it got set aside and fan art and something else, or voiceover or her life just got in. But this was much more substantial. And it has something that Miranda really likes is retro futurism and 50's --    Miranda: Like mid-century modern atomic age type stuff, Jetsons style.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Scott: They really enjoyed drawing. So it was very inspirational. And then I showed it to my buddy Ed. We had made a little video presentation and it's 1000 degrees different than that, than the thing that we first made. But he goes, this is great. We showed it to Swampy Marsh, the creator of Phineas and Ferb, who's sort of Miranda's mentor and my good friend. And then we all got together with a couple of the writers from Gary Unmarried, that show my buddy Ed wrote about my life that was on CBS, and other writers that I'd worked with on their pilots. And we all got a room and sort of hammered out a thing.    And then the found family thing, or how each of the casino employees used to work at the casino as a crooner or a fighter or something like that. And now the old man me has hired him to work on the, on the thing because they're no longer viable as performers. So we had that, and then Ed just took it off and built this great daughter goes away and comes back to save the found family sort of thing.    Miranda: And it was so well done and well-written. And we pitched on jokes, and I would be like, oh, this character probably wouldn't say that, or this and that. But most of it was Ed really. He just brought this huge heart to it.    Scott: Ed started on Roseanne and worked on Darma and Greg and so many great shows. And I was a joke guy, so you know, we were able to make the jokes crackle, and then you just crank it, crank it down, crank it down until it's tight. And then we hired Swampy Marsh and Bernie Patterson at Surfer Jack to do the staging animatics. So each time they go through, it's single line, really rudimentary, but it gives you a good idea of where everyone's going and what it will look like. I think they did four passes there. They hired Miranda to work on small projects. So Miranda got to work on her own pilot there.    And then I think after we had our thank you party last summer at Tim's, Miranda said, I want it all to be -- I have so many ideas. I want more characters, I want some different backgrounds. This would be funnier if a chop from above. And so Miranda said, I wanna do all of this. So she redid everything. And so every frame you see in the thing is her character's shirt background, a couple backgrounds. We hired her roommate Lauren to do, really wonderful stuff. But almost all of it is Miranda's vision. So there you go. And then laid in all the sound. Tim West at Rebel Alliances donated hours and hours and hours of time. So the sound design is really good. Adam Gutman, Miranda, you can talk about.    Miranda: Yeah. He's like a, he's a Disney composer. He does like all the music for these Star Wars land rides, and Amphibia, and he's worked on Greatest Showman and all these things. And I did a lot of work with him during the lockdown, and he had this like musical project, and I was able to do some animatics for him. And then after that, you know, we kept in contact and then he was like, if you don't let me do the music for Comet Casino, I will be very sad if you don't let me just do it. You know. And I was like --   Scott: Of course, of course.   Miranda: He had all these like great kind of almost hotel lobby tracks from like a Star Wars thing that he worked on. And he's just like, I can tweak this and do this. I'm like, that is so cool. It was crazy.    Anne: So a few things that I wanna point out to the BOSSes out there, because again, I think a lot of people that listen to the VO BOSS podcast they're thinking very much in just voiceover. And again, the scope of this project is so amazing, and I'm hearing a couple of things that just keep coming back to me. Number one is having a great network, right? And having a wonderful team to help put this together. And so I think that networking is such an important thing to have a successful --   Scott: Without, without it, this wouldn't exist.    Anne: Yeah.    Scott: I called in and asked every favor I had to get us at this point.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Scott: Listen, I don't constantly work for free, but I work with friends and things I like mm-hmm and everyone liked all these people that are in this, Maurice Lamar, Billy West, Tara Strong, Luray, Newman, Mindy Sterling — all of them have known Miranda since about three years old because I was asked to be divorced when Miranda was three. So I had her with me, and they all sort of watched her grow up and watched her. So when I said, hey you guys, this is what we're doing, would you be willing? And they all said the same, some version of yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Tara Strong's like, just tell me where to talk. They didn't owe me anything, but I, we asked favors.    Miranda: And one thing that I was so happy about is they've always been, ‘cause we're, you know, a lot of us are at the same agency. So like from being a kid, like not not a kid, but like, you know, in my 20s, early, early teenage years, they were always like, if you make something, if you make something, you know, put me in it. Please. So, you know, and then we finally followed through with an idea, and now it was like, I can do that. I can ask these people and they'll say yes. And that's just a such a great feeling to have, to have such a great support network of all these incredible talented people. I'm really honored.    Scott: And Miranda designed each of the characters for each of those actors. Aunt Maisie was designed for Tara Strong. Gary Anthony Williams is Hendrix. So that's kind of a cool thing too. But you definitely have to be willing to work with -- I mean I've worked on so many pilots that got shot and didn't get to air. I don't get any money from that. I just get the experience providing and supporting. So when I have something, I call those guys and they're like, yeah, let's get together and write this.    Anne: So then yet another thing that I wanna talk about that I think is so important in the development of this is you're still pursuing this, you're still getting funding for this. And so --   Scott: We've just started this phase.    Anne: Right.   Scott: We, it's taken two years to get up to that.   Anne: Yeah. And I think that there's something to be said for the level of commitment obviously, that you have to have for this. I mean in my brain, there's no way that it can't not be successful for you guys. I mean that's the way I feel. I don't know.    Miranda: I honestly think it's successful already. I am just, I am happy to be involved with these incredible people. I'm happy to have this part of my portfolio, and I'm ready to get this, this art in front of people who work in amazing studios. Like all these studio people are going to be seeing my art. So that was like the goal from early on was to get my art in front of studios, and whether it gets made or not, it's just a step in the right direction regardless.    Anne: I love that.    Scott: The beginning premise was to get experience at storyboarding character design and backgrounds. So when we hired Surfer Jack, the idea was that Miranda would sit on Bernie's shoulder and watch him staging storyboard. But then Swampy screwed that up by hiring Miranda before they even started on the pilot to be head of small projects there. So the idea was to get all of her stuff in front of as many people as possible. And because of Ed -- his theatrical representation is APA — they saw that 90-second trailer and called us in for a strategy meeting. So now we're actually represented by APA.    Anne: Love it. That's huge.   Scott: They're not only showbiz adjacent, but they represent people like 50 Cent, Mark Ruffalo, you know, that kinda people. So now, next week the pilot goes out to every animation studio and every streaming service, full support of the head of animation at APA. And they'll bug them to watch it and then hopefully take a meeting. So we already won because all of that stuff is in front of them. And Miranda -- by the way, she's like, in my early twenties — these are your early 20's; you're 28 (?) until next week, you know.   Anne: That's phenomenal. Miranda, I love that you said that it's already a success because it truly is in my eyes, and that's why I feel like it can't be anything but a success already. I've seen it evolve, I've seen it progress, and to me I'm in awe. I think it's amazing. I love the evolution, I love the whole creative process. And I think that it would help BOSSes to maybe wrap their heads around the whole production process of a creative project because I think it will help us to become better actors, become better business people, understanding the networking that you guys are going through and the process to get this produced and and get this out and see if — it's like a big huge audition. Right?    Scott: It is. The other thing is, I told you I don't book animation. So what we did was build a pilot and write ourselves into the pilot. So if I book animation, it'd likely be something that we wrote then Miranda drew. So I think that's a really important thing for anybody getting into it. Don't wait to be asked to the dance. Get out there and start dancing.    Miranda: I also think like the thing about networking that you said like Swampy, a friend of ours, you never know who you are going to meet or who's gonna hire you or who's gonna be your friend and let you work on their project or whatever. ‘Cause like, you know, I hired my roommate to work on some of the backgrounds for Comet. And the networking is so important in this industry, especially with animation, the way that it is right now. ‘Cause animation is very weird and not an incredible industry to get into right now. ‘Cause everything is very up in the air.    Scott: What do you mean, not a great industry? Do you mean it's uncertain?    Miranda: Yeah, it's very uncertain and there's lots of things.    Scott: Voiceover and acting --   Miranda: No, no, but like animation in particular, a lot of animated projects are getting canned. Like they took so much off of HBO Max and Netflix. Like all these animated projects on Netflix.   Scott: That happens in every facet of the entertainment --   Miranda: Right. That's true.   Anne: Ebb and flow.    Scott: It's building your house on mud and hoping for the best.    Miranda: Yeah.    Anne: Yeah.    Miranda: But you know, like you just never know who is gonna hire you. You never know who's gonna be part of your story next. So.   Scott: It's also a good reason to be nice to everybody.    Miranda: Exactly. It costs some money.    Scott: ‘Cause you never know. And that's why I always say, hey people, I know we have, we're represented by an agency, but please if I sent you the pilot and said, hey, send it to creators that you know, it's always great when something comes to the same point from different connections.    Anne: Sure. Absolutely.    Scott: Oh, this is the pilot. Oh this is the guy that Apple, the Apple guy sent me this. So I believe you gotta get as many lines in the water as you can.    Anne: Absolutely. And that networking completely helps that. And I think that it's just something that's so important for us to know as we progress in this industry because this industry's uncertain, voice acting. Oh, oh my gosh. You know?   Scott: Also the other thing is Miranda's not stopping. She's doing Comet art for the pitch deck. Should we get the meeting, I feel confident people are gonna say, hey come in. We like it. We'd like to chat, doing that. But she's also prepping a bunch of stuff to submit for Smiling Friends. She just had a meeting with the storyboard director from Mitchells and the Machines. So you know, you can't just go, well, we've got our pilot. Let's just sit back and let the money roll in.   Miranda: Not over until it's over.    Anne: That's not over.    Miranda: It doesn't start till it starts.    Scott: Ah, I like that one.    Anne: Yeah. Now lemme ask you, Comet Casino, what's next? What's the next step?    Scott: Next week. Well, Miranda's doing art for the pitch deck. Hopefully it goes out to all the stupid buddies, the the titmouses, the --   Miranda: Bento boxes, the tornates, the 20th Century Fox.    Scott: It's gonna go out to every relevant animation company and every streamer, Amazon, Apple, all of those. And then we clear our schedule because we'll be just meeting so many people and having a bidding war on the Comet scene.    Anne: There you go.    Miranda: One would hope. One would hope.    Scott: We still, did you get one of these, Anne?    Anne: I did not get a bag.    Scott: We wanna send you a bag as a gift from the Comet Casino.    Anne: Oh, I love it.    Scott: And we'll put one of the lucky chips in there too.    Anne: Oh, I love that.    Scott: I always keep 'em in my pocket when I audition and I booked three commercials with one ofthese in my pocket.    Anne: Well, thank you. So let me ask you guys, before we go, first of all, how can somebody buy Comic Casino merch? Where do they go?    Miranda: They go to the Comet Casino gift shop, and it's the first thing that comes up on Google. I'll also send you the link so you can put it in the description of whatever podcast.    Anne: The Comet Casino gift shop. And guys, I have a few things. I have a few things from the Comet Casino, but I do not have a bag, so I would love that.    Scott: We'll send you the retro airline bag.    Anne: Thank you.    Scott: Cool thing where you put the cardboard on the bottom, and they put hard glasses in the bottom.    Anne: I love it.    Scott: And then we still have a bunch of shirts. We don't have a lot of stuff. We got hit pretty hard. Oh, we do have some of these handmade pendants that are really, really cool. We only have a -- I think there's only five of those left. They're really, really, really stunning.    Anne: That's very cool.    Scott: Our friend Lori Magna is this artisan in Boston, and she made, she does all the little -- I mean --   Anne: Oh, I love it.    Miranda: Aren't they so cool?   Anne: I love it. So Comet Casino gift shop.    Miranda: Yes, indeed.    Anne: And how can someone follow you, Miranda?    Miranda: Oh, well my Instagram is Parkinart, Parkinart. No spaces, no caps, no nothing. No, no underscores or dots or dits or numbers.    Anne: Perfect.    Scott: You can see me on a Tide commercial    Anne: Ah yes.    Miranda: And his Instagram. His Instagram --   Scott: Hang on, I forgot to say we just got these, the premade --   Miranda: The booklets.   Scott: Big comic books with all the concept art. They're 22 pages, and we just got these. There was a misprint. We got to help with the pitch and they did a misprint --   Anne: Will you be signing?    Scott: We're signing. Miranda will sign. I'll sign it. It doesn't really matter if I sign it, but Miranda's gonna sign it, and then if you get other cast members to sign it, you got something there.    Anne: Very nice.    Scott: That'll be up on here very quickly as well.    Anne: Very nice.    Scott: Anne, thank you so much. So sweet of you to have us on.    Anne: Thank you, guys. It was amazing. So much fun. And I'm looking forward to interviewing you again after it gets picked up and you guys --   Scott: Absolutely. And remember, we're voice first, and we have a very long memory and we remember everybody that was so supportive and helpful. And believe me, we'll be working hard. We don't know who's gonna buy it or what the situation will be. They may buy it outright, tell us to go away, you know what I mean? So we have no idea what that looks like. But if we have any say in it, we're gonna bring people to audition. Everybody gets up to bat, we're gonna write your names as a character, spread the wealth.    Anne: Love it. And your cat wants to say hello. I love it. You know, I have three cats, so I'm all about that. Well fantastic, guys. Thank you so much again. It was amazing. So much fun. Love, love, love what you're doing.    Miranda: Thank you so much for having us on.    Anne: Absolutely.    Scott: You've been so supportive, Anne. You jumped on the bandwagon and gave away merch very early on. This was an expensive proposal, right? Hiring an animation company to do four passes, and then I was sending random money to not take any other work while they worked on this thing. So it's really, really helpful to have such support. The main thing is, it's just really fun to see the cool logo and all the great art on it. It's very nice.    Anne: Absolutely. All right, well BOSSes, here's your chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Besides giving to Comet Casino, you can go to 100Voiceswhocare.org to find out more and commit. And also big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network communicate like BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye!   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

The advertising landscape is changing. People want to connect with real people, not just faceless brands. Anne & Lau share their tips for putting yourself out there visually. What matters is that you are enhancing your natural essence, not turning into some inauthentic version of you. Share yourself on social media & your website. When clients see who you are, they feel like they really know you. It also makes them more likely to remember you and recommend you to others. If all else fails, present yourself in any way that makes you feel comfortable & shows those around you that you care about what you're doing.   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the Business superpower series. I'm here, Anne Ganguzza, with my bestie, favorite special guest, co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau.   Lau: Hey, Anne.   Anne: You know, Lau, since I started with you, I made that decision to have all of our podcasts also be on video. And I have to do my hair, I gotta do my makeup . And I found myself increasingly out there on camera and in front of people. And remember back in the day, when you made that decision -- or maybe you didn't, but I did. It was always like, well, I don't wanna have to be in front of a camera. I just wanna be an actor behind a mic and nobody needs to see my face. Well, I think that's changed.   Lau: Mm-Hmm.   Anne: And I think it would be a good thing to talk about is it necessary for us to have a visual image as well as our voice?   Lau: And I remember actually, like it was yesterday, I remember the day where it was fairly detrimental to be seen because you would be pigeonholed. You'd be stereotyped. Like let's say I, I'm able to do a 10-year-old boy's voice for animation. Then all of a sudden you see me, and I look completely different than that. And now it's stuck in a producer's mind. That was the mindset back then of like, keep yourself hidden enough so that you're branding could go all over the map. And now it's like completely changed in so many ways.   Anne: Has it? See, 'cause that's the question I get these days, especially from character actors, or let's say actors that don't look like they sound. And so they're concerned about being pigeonholed if they show their face. But I am like, these days, especially with video being right up in the forefront right up and everybody's faces, it's so popular. And especially after coming out of the pandemic where people weren't in contact anymore, I do believe that people wanna connect with people. It's a human need to connect with people, to connect with faces. And I, for one, I cannot stand it when I cannot, let's say, call up a business to ask a question to get a real person on the phone. And I know this is weird. Where are my millennials? I'm sorry. My millennials are like, but I can text.   Anne: But even so, I like to call to make sure I can hear a voice on the other end. Or I like to meet on Zoom, a lot of times with new clients, kind of I validate them to make sure they're human. For me, it's a thing. I need to connect with humans. And I am always telling my business students that people wanna connect with a person and not necessarily a logo.   Lau: Yes. Yes. And here's pure irony. You and I come from a generation where we need to do that. Like I, I remember the days where when I needed to get a phone number, I'd call something called Information. Information was 411. And then I'd hear someone, usually the same woman, and she'd be like, hello, Information, how may I help you? And I loved talking to people. I still, I don't trust online booking for hotels. I don't trust online booking for air fare. I, I still have that in me to wanna talk to people, wanna make that connection, wanna have that trust. But here's the irony. In voiceover of those days, that's where we had a lot of announcer reads. That's where we had a lot of caricature style reads, especially in the commercial market. Today, today, no one wants to talk to each other. You'll always get a machine, you'll always be online filling out those fields online, right? You'll never be able to get customer service. But stylistically we want naturalism. We want to have naturalism.   Anne: We want authenticity. Mm-hmm. Authenticity, that's the biggest trend. Isn't that funny? And especially from the younger generation, right? They want that authenticity. So I believe that a visual image, an in-person or an on-camera or a, that kind of a thing really helps to bring the authenticity to the business.   Lau: It does. Like I wanna see you. I wanna see that you're a real person. You're not a bot, you're not an avatar. You're not a cartoon drawing. That's okay. Like I love seeing those, but that doesn't take the place of the person. I still wanna see the person. If I'm gonna work with you, hire you, cast you, whatever, I still wanna see that you're a person and get a sense of that.   Anne: And you know what's so interesting? It's gotten to the point where I am putting myself out there so much visually that I have a brand ,and you know what my brand consists of? Headphones, that might be red or blue or purple. Or I just got a really beautiful pair of navy blue, and I got a pair of blue glasses, . And I just ordered, do you know what I just ordered? A pair of red glasses. And I also ordered a wind sock that is red . Uh, so maybe when I'm gonna be in the BOSS booth recording an episode, I might have a red headphone with red lipstick with red glasses, with a red -- but it becomes a visual part of my brand and it becomes something that people recognize for me. And it becomes consistent. I believe that consistency brands recognition and brands, something being more memorable. And I think that in addition to your voice being memorable, connecting that with a human, authentic being on the other side and also adding some visual branding can really help to make you a memorable brand.   Lau: Yes. And anyone who has been an actor either on tv, done film, done theater, knows the power of wardrobe, the power of makeup, the power of a mask. You know, we'll call it a mask right now because it could be be for men as well, or whatever you identify as. You have something that you may utilize to initiate your branding visually, whatever that is. It could be a hat, it could be, as you said, glasses, lipstick, it could be even a pen that you use, even a prop that you use. You know what I mean?   Anne: Nails.   Lau: Yeah. Nails. Right. So that it sort of gives you a little bit of superpower. It gives you a little bit of dynamic to fall into that role, whatever that role is for you, that if you don't do it, and you don't have it, it's a tougher way to reach the role that you're trying to play.   Anne: And that includes websites too, because that's one of the biggest questions I get is, do I put my photo on my website? Because that has always been the biggest bone of contention, right? Because I'm a voice actor, they don't need to see my face, but again, online people, before they even know you, you want to make yourself as memorable as possible. Yes, it's wonderful to think that my voice alone could do it, but why not your voice combined with your authentic headshot? And I'm gonna say, even if you don't sound how you look, I can say there's value in having, on your about page, a photo of yourself.   I don't think that that is going to misrepresent you at all. And especially if we're talking about authenticity, right? Who is it behind the voice? I think that that really warrants a lot to showcase a photo of yourself. Now, for me, I've always been about visual branding, and so on my website, I've always had a photo of myself, my voiceover website. And I feel as though it doesn't hurt me at all. I think it probably helps me. I think that I probably look like I sound. I don't know, Lau, what do you think? Do I?   Lau: Yes. I think your visual branding matches everything else that you're doing. Not always the case with voiceover talent, but that's okay. For you, I think it's perfect. Perfect. Your visual matches your vocal. It's wonderful.   Anne: So then again, let's talk more in depth about if your visual doesn't match your vocal. Can it hurt you if you put your photo on your website or -- I mean, I feel like you're gonna have to interact with your clients at some point.   Lau: Well, that's it.   Anne: In some way. Right?   Lau: That's it. I think he, you can't avoid the unavoidable and you know, you may not always meet everyone in person, but you are going to be -- now that we're in post COVID, we're having many more in-person events come back.   Anne: Or video meetings.   Lau: Or Zoom. Yes. Mm-hmm. Video meetings. And do you always wanna have your video off? Do you always wanna look a little bit MIA, like you're not fully present? No. You wanna have the ability to have confidence and say, I like the way I look. I'm proud of the way I look. It's part of who I am as a business person. And if they misconstrued my sound with the way I look, you know, hey, what can I do about it? That's called living in the world. I would rather see someone than not for sure.   Anne: Exactly. Yeah. As a client, absolutely. I would much rather deal with someone that I can see visually. Now have I seen all of my clients visually? No. No. But I have usually contacted them via email or at one time or another, my repeat clients, right, I've seen them. I've been in a video meeting with them to discuss a project or I've contacted them for some reason one way or they've live directed me. Some people can put the camera off during one of those sessions. But I like to have it on just to say hi. Just to let people know, hi, I'm a real person. And now during my performance, I don't necessarily have to have it on me as long as I've introduced myself as a part of my business with my visual face.   Now let's talk about, is there any sort of code of how should I look? Remember a long time ago there used to be restrictions, I know, for in the workplace about hair, right? And about beards and about that sort of a thing where it wasn't considered corporate to have a beard or long hair or something like that. So what are your thoughts about today and, and for a voice talent, is there a code of anything really?   Lau: I think it's the best time, Anne, to be able to show your face because the playing field is so open now with what's acceptable, what's welcome. Everything's diversity. Everything is age, everything is background, everything is, you know -- when you go into, like even in Manhattan, when I go into some of the more corporatey kind of firms, they're very business casual. The younger generation is much more casual --   Anne: I love that.   Lau: -- than they were years ago. I love it too. So I think a lot more is acceptable. But that being said, I don't think it gives people a free pass of saying, oh, I'll just look like whatever. I'll just stick on whatever. I'll just do whatever. I would take the time to work with a coach, your coach, whoever is great with styling, great with image, great with fashion, great with branding, and say, listen, this is who I am. This is what I do. I don't wanna go too far away from my authentic, neutral self, but I wanna look really great for who I am. I wanna look put together, I wanna be fresh, I wanna have great colors, great fits.   Anne: Or you wanna look like you care.   Lau: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne: Look, there's a lot of casual people in California. I get that. I've lived here for enough years to know. But coming from the east coast to the west coast is, in terms of clothing and ideals about looks and how you would dress for a corporate job, it's actually quite a bit different. But the cool thing is like, I wear black, I wear leather. Everything I wore on the east coast, I wear on the West Coast. And I haven't changed because I've changed where I've lived. And the cool thing is, is that it allows me to be me. I mean California, for all their casualness, you don't have to put on fancy clothes. But I think also you don't wanna look like that you don't care about your appearance.   Lau: Exactly.   Anne: And so I think that no matter what you have, like, and I remember, gosh, I remember tattoos weren't a thing either. This is my corporate background coming in. Tattoos weren't a thing, nose piercings that -- I've always wanted to get a nose piercing, by the way. This is, this is is Anne's admission. And I think I'm going to get one.   Lau: The truth comes out.   Anne: At this age, I am going to get one, a very small delicate, 'cause I'm a, I'm a bling girl. Right? And I feel like a small bling right here would look awesome.   Lau: Do it, do it.   Anne: But, so now people are gonna hold me to it. So maybe at one point, everybody, BOSSes out there, you'll see me with a little bit of a nose, a nose pierce.   Lau: A little diamond bling right there.   Anne: Little diamond bling. 'Cause it's --   Lau: I love it.   Anne: I like the bling.   Lau: I love it.   Anne: But yeah, I do think that as long as you're showing your authentic you and it's something that your authentic you is something you care about, I think that presents -- because again, it's personal, but don't forget that our personal brand is a business brand. And so we're representing ourselves to people who might want to hire us or maybe not hire us based upon our looks. Is that a thing? True. I mean, I think if we're gonna be brave and show our face and show who we are, we have to also accept the fact that maybe people won't hire us based upon our looks. Lau, thoughts?   Lau: Yeah. If you're meeting people too, which you and I are meeting people all the time, whether we're on Zoom or we're in person, we're meeting people, you know, how do we come across? How do we look them in the eye? Do we smile, all this stuff? So I don't want it to seem like you have to put on armor to meet people. But you wanna enhance your natural beauty, your natural essence, your natural energy. It's sort of like the rule of thumb for a really great actor headshot is I don't want it to be glamorous. I don't want it to be overdone. I want it to be super natural and look like you on a really great day.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Lau: So that's sort of the rule of thumb. And ask yourself this question, look at all the businesses out there that now have the owners or the people working in the business show their visual faces. Real estate agents, they all have their faces on cards, right. We have a lot of branding in advertising for everything from furniture to cars to on and on it goes of people who own the dealership, people who run the furniture stores, and, and you're thinking, well why? Why are they on there? Why don't they have, you know, beautiful looking talent on there that are gorgeous? No. Because people wanna see real people. They wanna see who they're creating relationship with to buy these products, but they just wanna make sure that they look good on a good day. They don't wanna roll outta bed. You know?   Anne: Do you remember Don LaFontaine for many years? We heard his voice, heard his voice, heard his voice, and then he started doing the commercials where he, he was in person? I love that. And also because you're on the east coast, oh Lau, please let me know if you -- Men's Warehouse, do you remember his voice? Oh my gosh, for years --   Lau: Oh yes!   Anne: The guy who owned Men's Warehouse had the most beautiful voice and I thought, wow, he should be doing more voiceover instead of his commercials. And then they showed him on the commercial. And so he brought his visual brand, and I loved it. I absolutely loved finding out who the person was behind the voice. And --   Lau: And now they all do it. Now they all do it. And sometimes you're looking and you're going, I'd rather they stayed behind the camera. . Like, you know, they have these deep, you know, Boston accents, you know, come on in and buy a sofah.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Lau: You know, what I mean? But the point is, that's what the largest demographic in the commercial market really wants. They want approachable, natural, authentic, real authentic.   Anne: And you know, just like, okay, so just like being an announcer has gone off trend, right? And whenever we get behind that mic, we feel like we have to put on that voice. Here is my voiceover voice. Hello, I'm Anne and this is my voiceover voice. Like that's a put on kind of a -- like people want more authentic. Now character, we're talking something completely different, right? Because you become that character, but you're becoming an authentic character, right? So just as, we don't necessarily like inauthentic sounding or inauthentic in social media where everything's always perfect, we like the authentic person, and that visual brand helps to bring out that authenticity. And I think that is something that can truly help elevate your business as scared as you are.   And for all of the people out there who have gotten into voiceover, because, well I got into voiceover so they didn't have to see my face. Well, I think it's time guys for you to appear and show up to your businesses and show up because we wanna connect with you. And I'm always talking in terms of performance, when I'm trying to get that conversational read, even for narration, right? I'm trying to get that engagement. It's that back and forth. That visual can help you. I'm always talking about, I want that authenticity, I want that engagement. Your visual brand can help you. And that visual brand is in person, when you meet people, your website, it can be a great indicator for your visual brand as well. Even if it's just a picture of you on the about page. I think that it's something that can bring a lot of value, a lot of value.   Lau: I agree. And I think you feel differently. You internalize your external. So you know, it's a fine line. Like we're not all about what we look like. We're not all about what externally comes out. But there is a deep connection between what I'm internally emotionalizing and feeling and what I'm externally giving out to the world. And so I think we can learn a lot from actors who are going for visual roles that they don't dress in costume, and they shouldn't dress in costume for an audition, but they should give a flavor, give a hint of the character in how they're gonna present themselves when they walk in the room.   Anne: And it's always bringing themselves to the character. Right? That really is the winning --   Lau: Yeah, you're gonna do --   Anne: It's the winning. Right? Your twist. Your unique, authentic twist to the story no matter what. Whether you're performing behind the mic, performing in front of the camera, your online storefront, whatever that is, it's helping you to bring that organic, authentic part of you to the role. And even yeah, as you say, character acting.   Lau: If you're gonna do a narration, a corporate narration gig, don't come in wearing your old t-shirt and shorts and flip flops because there's gonna be a little bit of a psychological jump for you to do to that particular job. Come in, you know, come into your booth in your home.   Anne: You're coming into it as an employee, right? In reality, if they've hired you to be the voice of their brand, you are now an employee of that company. So now, dress visually and I think emote as if you were a part of their brand, which you are. If they've hired you and they're going to pay you, you are now an employee, quote unquote, of that company. So.   Lau: Yeah, there's a culture. So there's always this culture to every gig, every client, every happening that shifts and changes. It really doesn't and shouldn't stay the same. To have the mindset of like, well they'll just accept me the way I am -- okay. Sometimes they do. But sometimes they don't. Sometimes they want to have a visual mirror as to who they are, how they're coming in, how they feel about the work. Same with your clients that are your coaching clients or demo clients.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: They wanna feel comfortable that you understand where they're coming from. And sometimes that's visual cues.   Anne: It's very interesting because I coach without visual, I do not coach through Zoom. I coach through ipDTL. Yay, love ip -- why do I coach through ipDTL? Because it's a high quality audio connection, and I need to hear those nuances, especially when I'm doing long format coaching for narration, medical, nuance is everything -- actually nuance is everything for every part of voiceover I think. But that's me. And so I need to be able to hear really well. I need to be able to hear that coming through. And it's interesting 'cause I'll coach a student 10, 20 sessions, and then I'll talk to them over Zoom when I reveal their demo. I always do a Zoom reveal so I can finally meet them. And most of the time I'm not necessarily surprised at how they look 'cause they have a presence on social media or they look like they sound. But sometimes I am completely surprised and pleasantly so. I've never been unpleasantly surprised. But absolutely when I've seen someone, I'm like, wow, I had no idea.   And so I think a lot of times when I'm coaching for voiceover, right, that is primary is voiceover is your voice and hearing the nuances in your voice. But I always wanna hear your authentic self come through in the voice. But always, especially when you're representing a company, you are the employee of that company. But I need your unique, authentic self to come through. And a lot of times that authentic self is your personality. Right? A lot of times your voiceover, I think, is made better by your personality, your unique personality that you bring to it. Because I'm here to help you, I'm here to serve you, I'm here to tell you about this great product that you're -- it's always positive. I don't think we're ever, unless we're doing character work, right? I don't think we're ever emoting things that are negative. Right? Typically we're not hired for negative sounding voiceovers or angry voiceovers, again, unless we're a character. It's mostly a positive, comes from the heart, from a helpful situation. What are your thoughts on that, Lau?   Lau: Oh, I agree. I agree. And I, I mean when you consider how many people out there that are visual learners, they literally take in information, process information and create quick output based on what they're taking in visually. Like I have to give them something to work with if I have the ability to. If they don't see me, they see nothing visual that I do, well, okay. But oftentimes they will, they'll go to my website. They'll go to your social, they'll go to something that has you on it, whatever that is, . And they'll say quickly, do I feel comfortable with this person? Happens in like two seconds.   Anne: Excellent point. And I'm glad you brought that up because whether people decide to put their picture on their website, which is the biggest question I get, or not, right, there's social media somewhere, somewhere out there, there's going to be a photo of you that someone might discover. And maybe that's not the photo that you want them to discover first. Maybe it could be a photo from years ago when you weren't in voiceover or maybe you're being crazy and you know, having fun at a party. Maybe that's not the first photo that you want your potential client to see.   So I figure if you're going to put out a photo, put out that photo that is authentic you now and not you maybe 20 years ago when you weren't doing voiceover. And that's what a lot of my argument is. They're like, yeah, but I, you know, they're not hiring me for my face. And I'm like, true. But they wanna connect with a human being. And by the way, if they really wanted to, they probably could find a picture of you somewhere out there on the internet.   Lau: Yeah. And you know, it's really interesting too. Like it's, this is on topic, off topic. It's like when we were at the conference out in LA, you and I were at that conference out in LA, which we had a fab time, and I pay attention 'cause I listen, listen, listen for cues -- this is all face-to-face in person -- when I'm going through the steps of speaking at that conference, I'm listening to comments to me and comments about me, about who I am and about my brand. And a number of times I heard sometimes from men, sometimes from women, like, oh, I'm standing next to this beautiful woman right here. Or oh, this pretty lady, whatever. Or isn't she just sweet whatever, making initial comment on my visual in the way I look.   And I take it all in because I say, well, that's what they're getting in the first 5, 10, 15 seconds of not really knowing me, just kind of knowing my brand or knowing my name, whatever, I'll take it. I'm not offended by any of it because I feel like people wanna find the quick way to make themselves feel comfortable with you.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Whatever it is. Maybe I look like their mom, maybe I look like their wife, maybe I look like their daughter. Maybe I have an elegant presence to them in some way. Great. I'll take it. Rather than them saying, oh, you know, she could have switched out that sweatshirt. You know what I mean? She could have put some nice --   Anne: She could have put some nice clothes. Not dirty. That would be my mother talking.   Lau: Yeah. She could've put some, you know, taken off the dirty tennis shoes to come here. You know what I mean? It's--   Anne: My mother who always, you know what I'm saying? My mother, my mother did. Your mother, my mother used to say this all the, all the time she could like if I was going on, she goes, now make sure you put clean underwear on in case you get into an accident.   Lau: Yeah. In case you're an accident.   Anne: Yes. Oh my gosh. . So, but Lau, you know what's so interesting that you mentioned that when I first met you, I think one thing that was instantly drawn to was your smile and your laugh. And that I feel is like an inherent part of who you are and your personality. And again, I feel like that was a visual before I even heard you. Because remember we met during that webinar, we met on video.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: And I just remember your smile and your laugh and I thought instantly it was an instant connection. And I feel like that's what you want to be to your clients. You want to have an instant connection with your clients.   Lau: You do. And to the point where it's so deeply psychological, they feel they know you. They feel they know you already. Like they really know you and you're thinking, I don't think you know me or they don't know me, but that's okay. That's okay. I want to know you. I'm going to know you. And if this is just a first step, then this is just a first step.   Anne: And I feel if you're on social media at all, right? Social media is so visual these days. Right? I mean if you are on social media, you're probably throwing out a picture, a picture, maybe not of you, but it could be of your family, could be of your fur babies, could be of -- you're throwing out images of your authentic self. We hope. Right? Because sometimes, as we know is the issue with social media is it becomes the fake presence. But I think if any of you are on social media at all and you've got potential clients everywhere, and they could be seeing your presence socially before they even consider hiring you, and that social impression that they get from you could be from comments that you're making or pictures that you're sharing. Everything's video now. TikTok, Instagram reels. Facebook reels. And I feel like it's almost impossible for you to not showcase your visual on social media these days.   Lau: Yeah. It is. Like you can't get away from it at all. Even if people are taking photos at an event that you attended, you're gonna show up somewhere in the photo. And they may not always be a great photo, but the point is you gotta stay at home and never leave and be super careful to not be caught in some sort of visual. And even in your branding, you have to put out some sort of visual for your branding.   Anne: And I think if your fear is being pigeonholed, I think your vocal type might be pigeonholed anyways if you have a very unique voice. Right? I think when you're talking like a very young voice for your age or any type of voice that is different than you look like, whether you put your picture out there or not, I feel like you're going to be cast in a certain role.   For example, if you have a very high pitched voice right now, although now it's becoming more commonplace, maybe you wouldn't be cast for an older personality that's buying, I don't know, bifocals. So whether your photo is out there or not, your voice is gonna be cast in that way or not based upon the sound or the perceived sound that the client is looking for. So I don't think it matters if you post a photo of yourself on your website that doesn't represent your voice because they're hiring you for the voice, and the voice is then being cast in a role as they see fit. But your authenticity comes through in that voice.   Lau: Yes. And everything's subjective at the end of the day, like you can't get away from subjectivity. That's human nature. We're based on our own frame of reference, how we are perceiving you and how we're taking you in. So I don't think we can fully control that. But there is something, I think, especially with someone who doesn't know you, there is a psychological bond that happens quickly when they perceive that you care.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: They perceive you care enough to put yourself together, to do that little extra whatever it is you are doing, whether it's your hair, or your materials -- or as a woman, Anne, we talk about this all the time, I get so many people who say, Hey Lau, I love what you're wearing. What's that necklace you're wearing? Or where'd you get that ring? Or da da da. Sounds kind of materialistic, but it's something that they can connect to you on. Something that they care about, something that makes them feel comfortable. And then you'll make that chitchat based exactly on, oh, where I got this or what is that? Or, and then that always leads to the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, the next thing.   Anne: Absolutely.   Lau: And so that, that's valuable.   Anne: And people who know you because of what you've put out there, like visually and/or audibly, right, becomes a point of connection that you can then use to be memorable in your brand. So great discussion. So guys, if you're afraid to put your pho -- don't be afraid to put your photo out there. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there on video. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there in person, in front of your potential clients, in front of your clients. It is a piece of who you are, it is a piece of your brand, and it's a piece of your business.   Lau: I'm with you all the way.   Anne: Well, thank you, Lau, for another thrilling discussion. I love, I love, love, love talking to you every week.   Lau: I love it too. And may I say we look fabulous today.   Anne: Yes. We thank you , because we're our authentic selves. So with that, I'd like to give a great shout out to ipDTL. You too can network, communicate like BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also if you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart, if you've ever wanted to help them, you can visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much. Bye.   Lau: Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Raising your rates as a voice actor can be a daunting task, but it doesn't have to be. In this episode, Anne & Lau discuss tips for approaching money conversations with clients, moving past the fear around charging what you're worth and deciding when to raise your rates. It's important that you know what your time is worth and what kind of value your clients are getting from working with you. Your voice is an asset. By taking charge of these conversations & setting your rates accordingly, you can make sure that your business is running smoothly. Your clients want to work with someone who knows their own value and isn't afraid of asking for it. And if you need someone to talk you through the process, keep on listening…   Transcript   It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series with my special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau. Woo-hoo! Always so wonderful to see you.   Lau: Always great to be back. .   Anne: Well, Lau it's a change of seasons and so I'm feeling like I've gone back and reflected upon my business, and it is the time of year where I make the consideration, do I want to raise my prices or not? And what a great discussion Lau, because it is so difficult. How do you raise your prices? How do you raise your rates? And how do you go about doing that with clients that you've had for years or new clients for fear of, oh my gosh, your rates are too high, or rates are too low. I thought it would be a wonderful thing to discuss today on how we can raise our rates, because as businesses, we need to be profitable, right? For the majority of us in this industry, we would like it to be a business and not a hobby. And so to be a business, we need to yield a profit and to yield a profit, that includes pricing yourself. So let's start with you. Talk to me about, first of all, how do you set your prices for your particular voiceover jobs, acting jobs? What do you do first in order to set a fair rate for yourself or a fair price to yourself?   Lau: The question of the year, I say --   Anne: Isn't it though?   Lau: Not even of the day, but of the year. I can hear all of your listeners. The BOSSes are moving a little bit closer, and listening closer. Now, it's a great conversation to have. So I really am thrilled that we're having it today. In my opinion, there's a lot of fear around this conversation. There's a lot of apprehension, a lot of almost terror, I'd say, in really giving yourself as a person and also your brand, as a business, a price tag. That's very difficult for people's brains to get around, especially creatives who are artists and women can have a tough time with that as well.   Anne: Oh yeah.   Lau: And I think everyone can have a tough time as they move through their business, not just in early stages either. Like, people that are at 10, 15, 20 years into the biz having challenges with this topic. I myself have had many challenges through the years. I think one of the first things that, when we take a step back and we look at the whole fee structure of what we are doing, we have to ask ourself what is our worth? What is our value?   And it's not, not a simple, oh, this is what I'm worth and this is my value. It's really something to journal about, something to think deeply on, to converse with people you know and trust, and to do some market research, to really go into the market, say, this is our industry, this is my space. The more I niche down in my space, the more I can research the industry going rates, and really just document that. I would take a little bit of time and document that and update that like every six months to a year, just update.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: Every six months to a year, get knowledgeable.   Anne: So starting what the industry rates are. And so I totally agree with you there. In order for you to raise your rates, you have to set your rates. And so that's the question, number one is before you can raise them, how do you set them? And I think a great reference point is, and we've mentioned this multiple times on the podcast, is the rate guides. GVAA has a fantastic rate guide, Gravy for the Brain has one, SAG-AFTRA has their rates posted. So that's a great benchmark to start to set your rates.   And I think we've mentioned this before, but I'll mention it again, whether you are new to the industry or you've been in the industry for 20 years, you can price yourself at the standard rate. Just because you're new doesn't mean that you have to price yourself at a lower rate than somebody who's been in the business for 15, 20 years. Because in essence, it actually helps the industry if you are pricing yourself at a fair going rate according to the rate guides.   Lau: I would agree with that. Totally agree with that. You took the words out, right outta my head. I was about to say, you almost do the industry in injustice when you go too far low and too far below what the industry rates are. Even though there may be times where you do that and you choose to do that, you need to do that and that's okay. But as a running rule, you wanna stay at the industry rates or above because you wanna drive the market up. You don't wanna drive the market down.   Anne: Exactly.   Lau: We oftentimes hear the sayings like it's a race to the bottom. What that really means is like we're all excited about working. We wanna get as much work as we can, charge them anything and just get anything for the business. And I think that there's a time and place for that. But for sustainability and longevity of a business, it just doesn't work. It does not work in any way. And you are devalued. You're immediately devalued in the eyes of that prospect client. So to really sit down and say, okay, whether I'm starting out or whether I'm running my business, you and I have been running our businesses for 15-plus years, is to say, what is my value today? How has that changed from a year ago? How have we grown? What are my products? How have I niched my products? And what are those products valued at in the market today?   I would start there. That's a good start right there. And then to start thinking about time. What does time mean to you? How much value is your time? How valuable is your time? What's your worth? Your knowledge, your ethos, your education --   Anne: Your experience.   Lau: Your experience, right? It's, that's where the subjective force comes in. What makes me unique? What's my value proposition different from others in the space doing similar work, helps establish that value.   Anne: Well, I think also one thing that helps us as freelancers is that I like to break it into different categories. You have the new clients, the ever evolving, I guess, cycle of new clients that come along. And for that, it's easy to set a rate or raise your rate. Okay? Because they've not had previous experience with you. So in a way that makes it easier for us to either celebrate or raise our rates. And it is up to us though, to take that step to do that.   I mean, I myself was guilty for back in the beginning, keeping my rates, keeping my rates, keeping my rates until I felt that I had built my business up enough to warrant raising my rates. But I do feel that every year is a great time to reevaluate your rates, and the economy too. You've gotta take a look at the economy. Now, we've got so many different things happening at this point in our industry.   We have the evolving economy, which is not doing great right now. So is it a good time to raise my rates? Right? We've got that to consider. What is the market willing to pay? What is the market willing to bear for a price of voiceover, especially now with synthetic voices looming on the horizon. So there's a lot of other factors that need to be taken into place, and if it wants to play into our fear, well, that's what does it for sure. Right? A lot of times the economy and other factors including competition from not only voice actors but now synthetic voices -- and so that just builds upon the fear.   If you weren't scared before raising your rates, now we've got a couple, a couple extra things that are being thrown into the mix, but I will say that because we are freelancers and because we continually acquire new clients, this is a good time to be able to set or raise your rate for the new clients that come aboard. And you know what? Here's the deal. If you decide to set your rate higher than you normally do or raise your rate, what's gonna happen is you will see if the market will bear it, right? If people are gonna say, yeah, sure, that's great. And not question the rate. And so when that happens, there's nothing better than that, because that gives you the confidence to really go forth and raise your rates for all clients.   So it's a great test bed when you get a new client to either set your rate higher or actually change your rate for the new clients. Now I like the whole grandfather clause where I've had a client for many years, and because they are a good client that continues to give me business, I will make a decision on an independent basis whether or not I will raise my rates for them. And then that becomes a different conversation, right? Because now that's where you've gotta like own up to saying, look, I appreciate you as a client, and I'm so thankful for the business and thankful for our relationship together. How do I say I'm going to raise my rights now?   Lau: Ooh.   Anne: Oh, there's the tough one.   Lau: Ooh, snap. There's what she did. Well, everyone has a different thought process. And again, you took the words out of my head because the way I tend to run my business is I tend to show loyalty and allegiance to current clients and typically stay at the rates that they're at. You certainly don't have to. And there are many businesses that will go up in rates on current clients. I just haven't done that quite as much. I keep them at the rate, grandfather them in, have the blank slate on new people with a new pricing coming in. And typically there just isn't any conflict of interest with that.   Oftentimes they don't even know the difference. They just see you coming in, and here's the interesting psychological value to that. All of a sudden you give a new pricing, and they may not flinch at all and say, oh, okay, great. And then you think, oh my gosh, I could have done that years ago.   Anne: Yes.   Lau: I could have done that years ago instead of playing all these psychological games with myself. To this person, the value is there. You are worth it. They're ready to go, and why wouldn't they pay that price? So I think to find good quality clients, the kind of clients that fit you, fit your business is so important. And to know that there are going to be clients that are not good for you; they're not good for you any longer, or they don't fit what your value is because they see it as a cost.   Anne: Right. Right. Exactly.   Lau: They don't see it as an investment. So I tend to use very strategic language when I speak to people. Is this your investment or is this a cost for you? And then educate them on what the difference is. And once they figure out that this is an investment, oh yeah, I'm glad you put it that way, then it is worth it to me. So sometimes it takes the little bit of education in there for them to shift their mindset to, well, you spent how much on a college education? You spent how much on your graduate degree? You spent how much on your online courses, what have you. Was that cost or was that investment? So this is the same thing. This is the same thing.   Anne: I love that you say cost or investment, because I think that clients who look at it as an investment are absolutely going to see your worth much more readily than a client that sees it as a cost. And it's also important, I think, for us as actors and creatives to understand that our voice is an asset. And I know I say it, yes, your voice is an asset, but what does that really mean? Right? Your voice contributes to potential millions of dollars in sales , right, for a client. And sometimes I think we forget that. We become so far removed from the product, the end product that we are providing the voice for that we forget our worth in terms of that.   So don't forget that your voice as an asset -- and this, I'll tell you what, I've learned this in my dealings with trying to talk to, let's say, synthetic voice producers or directors or companies that are producing synthetic voices -- to say that the voice is an asset, that it is worthy of compensation. It is worthy of fair compensation because that asset is what contributes to a company's brand. And don't forget that, BOSSes. Your voice contributes to a company's brand, which is no different than a marketing material or an on-air camera talent that gets paid a good amount of money to represent the brand of a company. So I think because we're in our studios, and we're like alone, we forget that somehow, that our voice really does contribute to a brand's value and a brand's ability to sell.   Lau: That's right. Absolutely. And quick anecdote on that one, just this past week I have a, a new agent colleague from LA who opened an agency and she was calling me to check in on a contract that she's working on for voiceover, and she doesn't currently represent voiceover. And she was going through what would be a fair rate for this talent, and she kept saying over and over and over again, I mean, these people are making millions off of this. They're making millions off of this. And we're talking about the difference between like, they offered $350, $350, she went up to $1100. I said, why don't you offer at lea -- oh my god, 1500 is like still so incredibly -- and her, there was a fear factor in there. I could hear the fear slip in. I said, what's the worst that happens?   Anne: They say, no.   Lau: You slide, you do whatever you want to do and feel is right. But my goodness, the truth is it should be actually so, so, so much higher than that. She just didn't wanna start at such a high rate compared to what the original rate they were giving her. She didn't wanna slide so high. But the truth is, it's so outta whack, it's so outta bounds in terms of what a company may be doing with that brand and creating gross versus what the talent is being paid, which is nothing, pennies, literally less than pennies.   Anne: There's something to be said for pricing yourself in such a way that it is value because you've priced yourself higher versus if you price yourself too low, then it's a perception of, well, okay, so that's a cheap price, right, for a cheap talent maybe. And that may or may not be the way that you want your brand to be perceived. So I always have said that I'm Tiffany's, right? I don't go on sale. This is my rate. And if a client chooses to accept that rate, then they are also accepting obviously that that is my worth and that I'm worth the value of that.   And I think that if they don't, it's okay. You have time to go and find the people that will pay you the rate that you're worth and value that charge or your increase in price. And it's a difficult, difficult thing, especially when you attack it from, well, if I raise my prices, am I going to raise my prices for everyone? And I don't think you have to. I think as we've discussed it, I've got people that are grandfathered in, and each one of those clients that I've been working with for a certain amount of time, each gets a special consideration.   Now, I might have worked with people for 10 years already at the same rate. And I think it makes it a whole lot easier when you propose to them that your rates, due to increased costs in running your business, your rates have to change. And this, for anybody that uses, let's say an audio editor for their work, and they're paying them as well, if they go up in price, and you're still charging the same, well, you've gotta recoup those costs somehow as a business.   Lau: Exactly.   Anne: I've got that. I've got people that I pay for services that are raising their prices on me. And as a business, I've gotta somehow figure out how am I going to accommodate that cost? Because as a business, I don't wanna lose profit on that because I wanna maintain or elevate my business.   Lau: Right. And there is a huge credence to the philosophy that I wanna price myself above the market rate.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Lau: Not to get into like scamming or anything like that. Nothing negative. Like, oh, I just wanna make as much money as I can. No, no. You wanna say, listen, here's my price, here's my value, here's my investment, and I'm giving you, as you said, the Tiffany's approach. I'm giving you that Tiffany's approach. So you're investing in that, and that, that actually psychologically tells people that your worth is so high, it's so much higher. So it must be worth the cost of admission. So I'm going down that road, I've been going down that road for a number of years now, saying, yes, we are a slightly higher than the average studio. Yes, we are slightly higher, whatever, because here's the value prop X, Y, Z. That's what we do. That's what we give. You don't want that, then we're not the place for you.   Anne: Right. Right.   Lau: So yes, being able to walk away, being able to say, this business isn't gonna work, this client isn't gonna be good. They don't see the value, that's okay. I think that's fine. You know, you don't have to sort of tear for every single person who comes your way. They're not always gonna be the right ones for you.   Anne: You bring up a good point there, and I've seen this as some discussion on the forums as well lately about some talent feeling that they have a need to school their clients on a fair price. And there's a way to do that that is respectful of a client. I think, again, you have to really put yourself in the client's shoes. Not all clients are in direct control of the money that can be paid for your services. Not all clients really do have the budget, and if they don't, I think it's well worth it for us to say or advise that you're not rude about it. Because not every company has the budget to pay voice services for whatever you might be commanding at the moment. So I think be careful when you are renegotiating with your clients back and forth for a rate.   I think for me, when it's a new client and I'm negotiating a rate, I always start on the higher end, which makes it easy to negotiate down. I always leave an open space in my quote, and a lot of times that's in an email that says, please let me know if this fits within your budget. And that sentence alone pretty much just opens the door for negotiation. And so then a client can come back to me and say, well, I've only been allocated this much for the budget, and then I can work with that. So I always kind of shoot higher anyway. And so that kind of works within my, let's raise the rates this year.   I think it's a conscious decision that you as a business person, right -- put the creative aside for a moment -- well, keep the creative to know what you're worth, but also put on your business hat and really put yourself in the position. Here's what I'm going to do, and stick with it and try to just get past that fear. I think that's the biggest thing that stops the majority of us from raising our rates or charging what we're worth in the first place.   Lau: Yeah. I think you just have to do it. Like you have to go ahead and do it. Look, what's the worst that happens? It doesn't work.   Anne: They say no.   Lau: You can go back. You can go back, you can change your rates, make it lower. Like no one's holding you against a wall. You can do it, but you've gotta try it. I, this gets into negotiation, Anne, a little bit, but I would say it's very important to, once you give that number, once you give that fee, to stop talking. It's very important to give it, to have a sense of just like you would deliver copy and say, this is what we do for this investment company or for this healthcare. We help you, we give you health. This is what our fee is.   Anne: Mm-hmm. And then wait.   Lau: And then stop.   Anne: Then wait. Say nothing.   Lau: What do they say in sales? Like the first person who speaks loses.   Anne: Exactly, that's true.   Lau: Because our nature as caring people, many are artists I wanna say, but you know, we're the lowest, we're kind of cheap, and we're not gonna take, and to sort of justify and give excuses and tell you why we selected that fee -- don't do it. Don't succumb to that seductive force of wanting to explain or self-deprecate.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: Or say, I shouldn't be doing this and I don't know why I'm doing this, but hopefully it works for you, and I hope you can do this. Don't do it. Don't do it.   Anne: Yeah basically --   Lau: Don't do it.   Anne: Here's my price. Let me know if it fits within your budget. And then I wait.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: If you start to pursue it or act desperate in any way, then that's negotiation skills. And I'm so glad in a way that I had to develop those early on because when I first got into the business, I waited a long time before I pursued an agent. And so, so until then I was negotiating for narration, you know, non-broadcast work. And so that gave me a lot of confidence. I could try things out, I tried rates out. And it's funny because people will ask me, well, what do you charge for this? And I'll be like, I pulled that right outta my butt. I pulled that number right outta my butt. But honestly, this's where it comes half the time because I've got a basis. But I don't necessarily know this client.   I try to validate the client first and see what other work they have and educate myself as much as possible and then give a number. And sometimes that number, there's no basis for that number other than it's just I took a benchmark and I priced it up a certain amount based upon my last experience. And basically it's all trial and error, and I've always left myself that window open for negotiation. And that experience has really, I think, educated me more than just about anything else in this industry, was the education of being able to negotiate.   And so for that you play a lot of games and you fight a lot of fear. And it takes just a few times for things to work in your favor. Always ask the client if they have a budget in mind, because that budget can also help you to gauge pricing. I asked a client once what their budget was, and they're like, oh, I can't spend more than $3,000 for this. And I'm like, whoa. That was like three times what I was gonna quote.   Lau: So much higher.   Anne: That was three times higher than I was gonna quote. And I said, I think I can work with that . So that sort of thing can really give you confidence to understand where your worth is and then also where you might price and where you might start to raise your rates. So every year I say, take a look at what you're charging people, 'cause I have a base guideline, and by the way, I don't advertise it at all. I think that it used to be a thing where some people advertised their rates, and I think in that kind of a tactic, it's almost like if you're gonna advertise your rates, you're looking to get people who are trying to get the lowest cost. Here's my rates, I'll do a commercial for $100, or you know, a 60-second commercial for $100. And I think if you're gonna do that, then you're playing the wrong game there. You're playing the lowest bid wins, and you've kind of limited yourself in terms of profit that you can make by publishing your rates. So it's more of a custom boutique service if you say, contact me or if you're interested, here are my demos. If you're interested, contact me and then start the conversation.   Lau: And that's exactly why it's important to stay quiet as much as you speak, because you're gonna pick up the cues of what that client is saying to you and you're gonna make your quick notes so that in your brain you can say, oh I can go hide her. I didn't realize that. Or I'm way too high. Am I willing to lose this client? Like you can start that conversation, that inner monologue going, if you're listening to the cues that are coming in.   And there was one more point I wanted to make 'cause you said something so cool and that was about control yourself. Like control your emotions, control how you react to things. Here's the psychology of selling. Is that like nothing should get me upset is the truth. Everything should be objectified just enough so that whatever comes out of them is not really about me. They're talking about my business. So they're not -- so I'm not just like an actor. It's like if I don't get the job, it's not really about me, it's about what I'm offering is not really right for that role. Well, it's the same in business. They're not really talking about me. 'Cause guess what? They don't know me and they don't know me at all. I'm a stranger. They're talking about their perception of this whole business that they may not know anything about. Or they may have had a, a big history, they may have been burned, who knows?   Like we don't know when they come in the room, what they've been through. They may have been through a lot. So you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that if they get irritated or angry or if they treat you inappropriately, you have to understand that they're coming in with a history. But don't fall into it yourself. Like we used to say in training, leave your trash at the door. You know what I mean? Like you, well you can pick it up on your way out, but don't put it in someone else's court. Because you lose your power when you do that. You talk about superpowers, it renders you incapable of diplomacy and neutralization, when you start to say, how could he say that about me? Or how could he downgrade me like that or whatever, you know?   Anne: That's what it is. I think part of it is the emotional aspect of it and keep the emotions out of the business. Take it out.   Lau: Take it out, take it out.   Anne: It's so hard for us because our product is so personal to us. It is our voice. It is who we are. It is our brand. And so when we get treated by a potential client and them, I guess, diminishing our worth in terms of no, I can't pay that. Or no, that's not in our budget, we have to not take that personally because it's not about us; it's about business.   Lau: That's right.   Anne: And some clients literally don't have the budget and we have to just accept that and not be offended, not be angry.   Lau: Mm-Hmm. And isn't it okay, Anne, that they don't want it, they don't like it, they don't agree with it? It's still a free country. You know what I mean? It's like they have a right to not think that's fair or to not wanna put the money into it. They have a right to do anything they wanna do. One technique that I use that I found just for my own sake, that preserves me in the process is whatever happens in terms of the fee structure and the negotiation and the chit chat, I always immediately redirect. If I hear something negative coming out, I immediately affirm it. I hear it, I hear you. And then I redirect it onto something positive, and nine times outta ten, it works really well.   So like for instance, I say, oh, my fee is this for whatever, for a demo. And they go, oh my God, that's expensive. And I'll say, well, you know, it's an investment. You're, you're investing in your future, whatever. And they'll say, well, I don't know. I don't, I don't know. Let me think about that. I'll say, great, think about it. I'm here for you when you come back. And in the meantime, I appreciate you sharing your story with me. That was valuable to me. And they go, well, thank you. That's sweet of you to say that. And then the conversation is redirected. And I mean that, I'm not just saying it as a sales tactic. I mean it from Lau that I'm gonna walk away saying I may or may not close a client. But I heard a really interesting story and I learned something from that conversation, and now I know something about what I can't do or what I can't do.   And so you have to have your takeaways too from the selling process. It's not just about the number, it's about I'm constantly reevaluating my own worth, reevaluating my own value, reevaluating how I view the business and perceive the human contact. And that's worth its weight and gold. Right? .   Anne: Well, it's so funny that you say that. And I have multiple aspects of my business where I, I, I mean, it's not just about voiceover clients. I have coaching clients, I have demo clients, I have VO Peeps memberships, I have VO BOSS marketing that I sell to people. And I'm constantly having to, if people are like, well, they're on a subscription, and they decide that -- end of year, it's always the time when people reevaluate their expenses and they're saying, well, was it worth it or was it not? And so whenever I get those emails saying, well, I'm looking to cancel because you know, I'm not seeing the value, I will always have, thank you so much for your feedback. I'm grateful for it. Here's my thought. Here's my thought. Think of this, think of that. And here's the value that we're providing, and we appreciate you and the value, and let us try to work something out. And I'll usually do that once.   And it's amazing how many times I can recoup someone by pointing out the value that they might have missed over the years or the month, or this is how we're bringing value to your brand. And so I think it's worth a shot rather than just saying, well, okay. I mean, I could just say okay and not care about it. But I'm always responding back with, thank you for your feedback. Thank you for your input. I appreciate that. I completely understand. It's hard at the end of the year for everyone. Here are some thoughts to consider.   Lau: Perfect.   Anne: And that is something that you can do for a client if you raise your rates with them. If they say no or they push back, you can say, thank you, I appreciate your feedback. And that's how you respond. Really, you have to just respond with grace. There's no other way really, and gratefulness for them being your client. But I say, yeah, stay firm with, here's my new rates. And I don't think that your rates should again, be outside of, you don't wanna go crazy and price yourself out of the market. I think that there's an acceptable range where you can raise your rates and it's not ridiculous. So I have vendors for me right now that are raising their rates and I have to figure out how I'm going to absorb that cost or raise my rates in return.   Lau: That's right.   Anne: But as voice talent, voice artist, voice actors, absolutely. I think it's worth at this point, or at whatever time, once a year to evaluate what you're charging and then consider whether it's time to raise your rates. Because we all need to progress. We all need to continue the profit, the economy, other things happen around us and we need to accommodate for that.   Lau: Yes. If you work on your plan, you work on your action plan for the year or for the quarter, you'll know what you wanna be grossing, you'll know what you wanna be taking in, and you'll know how close or how far away I am from that based on the rates that I'm charging right now and the volume that I deal with.   Anne: Look at the numbers, BOSSes. I know it's scary, but I think the first thing is look at the numbers. And I think that's probably the most scary thing for most of us, probably scarier than an audition or a gig that we really want. It's scarier to look at the numbers. What's your incoming, what's your outgoing, what are your rates now? And have the courage to step back, look at it, and raise those rates if you need to. So great conversation, Lau.   Lau: Anne, can I throw in one more thing for the road?   Anne: Yeah, absolutely.   Lau: Because. I just thought of this and I know you're like this and I know I'm like this. I think we care so much and that's why we get scared. If we didn't care --   Anne: Makes sense.   Lau: -- at all, we couldn't give a two hoots about what they think, whatever, we'll raise it sky high -- no, it's because we care and the good people deeply care about the people first. And so we're always regarding their feelings and how they view things and what, what makes life easier for them. And that's a wonderful trait to have. We just have to balance that with taking care of our selves as well.   Anne: Absolutely. Great point. Thank you, Lau. Oh, great topic. Absolutely great topic. And I think we all need to address it at one point during the year in our careers. So I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect network and talk about money and rates like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also I want you to know about a chance where you can use your voice to make an immediate difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye!   Lau: See you then! Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Bosses, it's callback time! After a set of fiercely talented auditions last week, Anne & Lau narrowed it down to the 5 talents they felt had something special. Manny, Aria, Josh, Nicole, and Kelly are back and ready to read. After being thrown custom directions from your hosts, these voice actors rose to the occasion, making the final decision a difficult one. Although there can only be one winner, every experience in front of an agent, producer, and casting director is valuable. You never know what kind of impression you'll leave on them, so give it your all. The final decision came down to matching Anne & Lau's preferences with the client's needs, but you'll have to tune in to find out who that is… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Welcome everyone to the VO BOSS podcast and the Business Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm excited to bring my special guest co-host Lau Lapides to the program. Hey Lau. Lau: Hey Anne. Glad to be here. Anne: Lau, we had an amazing live audition podcast. I am so excited for how that turned out. Lau: Oh my gosh, I can't wait to see it. And oh, what a, what a great time that was. Yeah, great group. Anne: And, and our appreciation, you guys, BOSSes out there, if you've not heard it, go, make sure that you check it out. It was our first ever live audition podcast where we had, uh, gosh, 12 people live auditioning for, uh, a particular for Expedia and, uh, with feedback and everything. And today, this episode is all about the live audition callback. So we had five people calling back, and we are going to have them come back for another round of reads, and Lau and I will pick the winner. So get ready, BOSSes. And so without further ado, hopefully people are there in the audience, uh, in the chat. Um, we have the roster, which will be Nicole Fikes, Aria Lapides, Manny Cabo, Josh Wells, uh, and Kelly White. Okay. So if you guys are ready, the first one up to audition for us again is Nicole. And Nicole, we are asking you to do the same script, which is the script for Expedia, starting with, uh, our colors. And, uh, we would like you to give us your unique second take. Lau, any particular hints, casting directions, specs? Lau: Uh, I would love to see the most coziest warmest, most relaxed read you can do, Nicole. Nicole: Coziest. Warmest, most relaxed. Okay. All right. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. Very nice. Lau: All right. Nicole: Thank you. Anne: Yeah. I'm gonna offer one little bit of redirection. Um, can I hear the end? Um, give me a little more, I, I'm gonna say a little more punch on in even more places, in more places. Um, and, and I really wanna hear finding the colors, come, bring that home to me. Um, a little bit of a, of a smile. More of a smile at the end, 'cause you got a great deal. Nicole: Yeah. Okay. And so still warm and fuzzy but just kind of a little bit more emphasis on the colors and even more places kind of line? Anne: Yeah. And you can just pick it up at so we can go find our colors. So you don't need to do the whole thing. Yeah. Nicole: Okay. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. All right. Lau: Super nice. Nicely done. Thank you, Nicole. Nicole: Thanks. Lau: Love it. Anne: Now, in a real audition, Lau, how -- now in terms of if people are late or they're not connecting or, you know, there's -- I'm sure there's a grace period, I mean, everybody's human. So if there are tech issues or if somebody didn't hear that they're being called back at the precise time, how much time typically would you say casting directors will wait? Lau: Um, you know, I don't know. It's not like -- I don't think it's a hard and fast rule. I think it depends on the relationship they have with whoever's sending them in, whoever's submitting them, and if they know the talent themselves. The rule of thumb, generally speaking, is like, the less they know you and then, and the less rapport they have, the less they're gonna have patience for you and the less they're gonna wait. But here's the interesting thing, and I, I wanna share this with the folks in the background, 'cause again, they're not seeing any of the tech stuff that's going on. I just received a text right now from Aria who said, hey, could you please give me a second? I need to reset it and reboot. I would say in general, people don't like waiting, so they'll skip to the next person. And you know, as a courtesy, they will come back to you most of the time because they wanna find a good person. They don't wanna -- Anne: And that's, and that's fine. And I will look, I'll make the call here if Manny is available. Uh, you know, if Aria can't get back, Okay. Um, we can certainly take Manny and wait, you know, for later to, to get Aria on, which is fine with me. Lau: That's how, that's how it would be because if we were in a paid studio space by the hour. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: We don't wait, wait for anyone. We just go on to the next person. Anne: Right. Uh, because yeah, this studio's expensive, darn it. . Lau: And you know, as, as we're, as we're saying this, the talent is emailing me because I have a direct rapport with the talent and she's saying, could you please have someone else go while I'm doing the tech setup? Anne: There you go. Lau: So I don't hold you up? See, that's exactly pro stuff. Anne: Perfect. All right, Manny, welcome back. So we're looking for your unique second read. Manny: My unique second read. Anne: You were super warm the first time. Manny: Okay. Anne: So let's, uh, let's hear something different. Manny: Okay. Let's do something fun. Anne: Okay. Manny: here we go. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. Lau, any redirection there? Lau: I have a quick redirect just because I, I'm getting to know Manny and loving your sound. Now I would love to hear you deliver this as a standup comedian. . Manny: Standup comedian. All right, that sounds good. That's fun. Here we go. Our colors have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you could save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. . Anne: Nicely done. Lau: So good. Anne: Yeah, Lau: So good. Anne: Nicely done for, for doing that without a real joke in the script. So that was good. You channeled. And what I liked about that is that you channeled, uh, the comedic into the read even though there was nothing comedic necessarily in the script. So yeah, nicely done. Thank you. Manny: Mom, I'm an artist. I'm doing artist stuff, Mom, come on. . Anne: See? There you go. Manny: Killing me. Thanks, ladies. Anne: Thank you, Manny. Anne: And, and even that little like, improv bit at the end there, nicely done. Lau: So good, so good. Anne: That's a way to leave a nice, uh, remembrance, you know, in my brain. So love that. Lau: Anne, could I make a quick point that I meant to say before, but I didn't say before? Um, I wanted to make the point to everyone who's coming in, but also anyone who's listening in that even though this is a mock audition under educational umbrella, you are actually auditioning every single time you're in front of an agent, a producer, casting, or even coaches. And it's because we're all so connected to work all the time. So case in point, I'm already thinking of work for Manny right now. I'm already thinking of potential representation for him right now because it doesn't matter that it's a, a podcast or a class or a course or a coaching. What matters is we're actually having the real connection and the real stuff. So never like mark through like a dancer might mark -- do it full out 'cause whoever you're with, may be the next person to help you work. Anne: You've planted the seed, right? Lau: Yes. Yeah. Anne: You've planted the seed, so, excellent. Yes. Aria, so wonderful to have you here. We are ready for you. Now we, so I know last time we had thrown that wrench in the, in the loop there for you. Aria: Hey, that's okay. Anne: A completely new script. Aria: Yeah. I enjoy that. Anne: And so and so now because you, you know, were really a cold read there -- Aria: Yeah. Anne: Let's give us the most to spec read, warm, non-announcery, not deliver -- uh, you know, nothing, nothing performy, and tell us that story. Lau, any additional direction? Lau: Um, yes. I would like you to do two things at once. I'd like you to care immensely about what you're talking about. And I also want you to not give a shit about it at all. . There you go. Aria: . Oh, you sort of a birch tree. Anne: That's exactly what I was looking for too, Lau, perfect. Aria: I love that. I love that. That's like my whole thing, right? I care so deeply, but I also don't care at all. Okay. Our colors. See, they have a way of finding us wherever they are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% adding a hotel or flight, so we can find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Bravo. Nicely done. Uh, way to take direction. I heard both care and not care in there at the same time. Aria: I'm good at that. Anne: Really nicely done now. Aria: Thank you. Anne: . That was the, Okay, so now that you can care and not care, uh, let's just give us uh, something completely different. A wild take from you. One more. Yeah, I got you. A wild take from you. Aria: Okay. Lau: I loved it. And also one more thing, be very careful of, I know you're not in a soundproof space right now. Be very careful of excess noise 'cause you actually clapped at the end. You did something to make noise. So just be careful of, you know, hitting something or any excess noise. Aria: Be careful of using your body, hitting something, excess noise. Got you. Echo. Our colors. They have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with the Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% adding a hotel and a flight, and even more places, you know, knowing you got a great deal. Expedia, ah, made to travel. Anne: Perfect. Let's hear that again. You missed a line. Aria: Yeah. Okay. Okay. So let's hear that again. Aria: Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever they are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing that we have a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. Lau? Lau: Yeah. I wanna make a comment about this. And again, it's like that oxymoron kind of thing. On one hand I love that choice and I loved how you, how quickly you did it. You didn't care. You just, you just, it was that improv in you. You just did it. You went 100% and I loved that. And actually you had a sort of European amorphous kind of non-real, real thing going on, which I like. Aria: Yeah. Lau: But just from an educational perspective for everyone, you wouldn't be able to do it for the most part, right? Because we are so much about particular appropriation that that authentic sound would be from somewhere and we would have to do the casting. Aria: And that's so funny that you say that 'cause I was actually originally gonna do like a Valley girl. 'Cause I was like, I feel like that would be a little bit more appropriate, at least for my age group than. Lau: No, but I think your choice was really right on in terms of the actor spirit. Anne: I think so too, in terms of making it more international. Lau: It was cool. Anne: And especially for the subject, but you're absolutely right, Lau. That's one thing that I was going to say, that maybe, you know unless you knew specifically that there was something in the specs that they were looking, and that it wasn't critical that it was, you know, from a, you know, a native speaker. Um, but I like the actor party knew that that gave that the shot for sure. Aria: Yeah. 'Cause you guys are so right, like, especially these days, like they want the authentic thing. Like I've -- even in acting, they're like, if you aren't this specific thing, I'm sorry, you can't play the role. And I'm like, it's okay, it's okay. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: So that, so I loved it, but I wouldn't be able to cast it. Right. Just like, you know. Aria: I just got that noted. Yeah. I appreciate it. All right. Awesome, guys, thank you. Lau: Thank you. Anne: Thank you. All right. That was fun. Yeah, absolutely. Um, Josh. Hi Josh. Josh: Hi. How's it going? Anne: Fantastic. Thank you. Josh: Cool. Anne: Um, Lau, any, uh, direction that you wanna give before he reads? Lau: Yeah, sure. Sure. Josh, I love what you're doing. Just give me a little bit more professor that is mixed with surfboard. So let's say he's like a, a UC, you know, LA professor that goes surfing during his lunch break. Josh: Sure. Dig it. Okay. Cool. All right. Uh, Josh Wells. Lau: I think you're a little low too. Is that me? Josh: Am I little low? Lau: I feel like your volume -- Josh: Well, I'm, I'm away from the mic, but how about here? Is this better? Lau: That's better. Josh: Okay, cool. Cool. All right. Excellent. Uh, Josh Wells, non-union. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Lau: So I, I I mean, I felt like you're moving there, you're not there yet. You're sort of holding on. There's a held feeling to it. Like, I would want you to let it go. Let it go. Let it move forward. Ride the wave. Ride the wave. And be careful of the pausing too much. It has an unnatural feel to it. Josh: Dig it. Lau: So, you know what I'm saying? Anne: Yeah. I was gonna say, I, I missed the surfer, kind of channeling of the surfer. I wanted to, I felt like I needed a little more, more relaxed. Um, and then also I, I, I just, I have a personal issue with the word a because in a conversation it's usually you're adding a hotel and not A hotel. But that's, you know, that's just my ears here. Josh: Um, I've got the note before, I'll -- Anne: Yeah. So yeah, if you can give me a little more of the relaxed, you know, kind of like mm, you know, the half smile. Um, I'd like to hear that again. Josh: Okay. You got it. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Thank you. I liked your ending. I like the different end on the tag there. Josh: Thank you. I appreciate it. Lau: Thanks Josh. You have a great cat that ate the canary sound. You had that really sort of wise cracking wise guy sound, which I really like a lot. I'd wanna play with that even more. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Yeah. Anne: And I would say, I would say for the, I still, you know, I'm in California, so it's the surfer, you know, I guess it's that me, I felt like you were almost leaning towards a little more like, uh, you know, Midwest sort of, Sam Elliott kind of relaxed. So work on the surfer. I think you've got it in you, for sure. Josh: Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that note. Anne: Yeah. Nice. I, I really like your tone. Thank you. Josh: Awesome. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Anne: Okay. Kelly White. Kelly: Hello, hello. Anne: Hi, Kelly. Lau: Hey Kelly. Kelly: Hey, how are you? Anne: Nice to see you back. Kelly: Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Appreciate it. Anne: Awesome. So, uh, Lau, do you have any, any specific direction you'd like? Lau: Yeah, so Kelly, keep in mind that we're going for a slightly younger demographic. So as we love the richness and texture and heaviness of your sound, we really feel like you might be able to go in that direction of the 30s to even early 40s sound of like something that is the fast moving person, multitasking person, young, professional person raising young children. I know you know nothing about that. I'm joking 'cause I know Kelly well. Kelly has small, young children, so target that on a busy day. Kelly: Okay. Anne: But remember that your colors, I, I wanna feel the, I wanna feel the colors, uh, being, bringing you home. Kelly: Okay. Our colors, they have a way of binding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Lau: Can I ask a question? If this is a busy mom, a young busy mom, what does colors mean to you? To her? What does that actually mean literally? Kelly: Um, just different aspects of probably her life. Just different things that she's doing, different things she has going on. Lau: Yeah. And the idea that she also wants to escape from it. Kelly: Gotcha. Anne: And find. Lau: And the colors of the ocean. The colors of the mountains, the greenery, the islands, the -- Anne: And find herself in more places than just her home. Kelly: Got it. That's right. Lau: Explore her, her inner world. Right? Her fantasy. Welcome to Fantasy Is -- give me more Fantasy Island, I think. Kelly: Got it. Our colors, they have a way of finding us wherever we are. And with an Expedia membership, you can save up to 30% when adding a hotel to a flight. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Nice. I'd like to have -- I really like the way you slowed that down and, and emphasize the colors and you brought that home. Um, and I think knowing we've got a great -- knowing we got a great deal. I'd like to hear just that last part again so we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. That's like your, that's like your mom, like that's your mom's secret. Like you just got a deal, you just had a coupon, and you know what, you're excited about it. And so you're sharing that with us. Okay? And, uh, let's just, just hear that one more, one more time please. Kelly: Okay. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Expedia, made to travel. Anne: Nice. Can I ask for one more? Can I ask for an alternate on just, just the, so we can find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal -- can I get an ABC read of that? That would be three different ways. Kelly: Okay. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. So we can go find our colors in even more places knowing we got a great deal. So we can go find our colors in even more places, knowing we got a great deal. Anne: Thank you, Kelly. Kelly: You're welcome. Thank you so much. Anne: Nicely done. Kelly: Thank you. Lau: Thank you hun. Appreciate it. Kelly: All right. Lau: All right. That's everyone. Yeah? Anne: That is everyone. Wow. You guys all did an amazing job. This is gonna be tough. Lau: Actually, I think it's gonna be easier than we think only because we kind of get and know what that client wants. And that's gonna help us deduce down who we need to be picking along who we want to be picking. So what, what, what are your top thoughts on top, top people? Who are your top, top two? Anne: Uh, my top people I am going to say, uh, is going to be Manny, Aria and Kelly . Lau: Okay. And my top people are Manny and Nicole. Okay. So we've got Manny in common there, which is a strong choice. And, and what's even stronger about Manny is, and it's genderless. Like they don't care what gender, that's fine. But they want diversity talent. And Manny is, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, Manny, I believe Latina and is bilingual and so can offer a Spanish read of this. So there's a, there's a super compelling reason why he may book this. Anne: And, and, and let's also talk about, you know, as we, as we mentioned before with our feedback, the fact that he was able to, uh, you know, take good direction, that's so, so very important, right, change up his read, which he did, uh, when asked. Also when leaving, when we asked him for the comedic read and I said, nice job, even though there's no comedic in there, he was actually able to leave us without sounding like too, like, you know, trying too desperate or trying to impress us. He did a line that was comedic that impressed me. And so I really liked the nuance of that and for me, that stood out and made him very memorable. Lau: Yeah. I mean, when he did that last mom thing, and I was like, wow, this guy is like really ready. He is ready Freddy. He is, There's no fooling around with Manny. Like, he's a super pro. And again, I'm saying this like, I don't know Manny at all. He was referred over to me last night for, uh, a VO Spanish audition that we got in from Miami. Unfortunately, he did not make that call because it was a time sensitive. So I said, and this happens all the time, I said, hey, I would love for you to come on our podcast. We're doing mock auditions today. He came on today in good spirit that he missed the actual audition, but not, not any fault of his. He just didn't, you know, he came in late and then came in today, and now I'm thinking, how can I work with Manny? Anne: Sure, sure. Absolutely. Lau: See, that's the way life is. So, Okay. So he's my top choice then. Anne: Yeah. He's my top choice too. And, and I'm gonna say, you know, my other picks, you know, again, I had for demographic, uh, you know, Aria, I love the voice, I love the demographic. I think that she's, she's, uh, great with that. She did give a complete different read um, you know, on either one. I liked her acting instincts there. Um, and so again, that sometimes, guys, it, it, it can turn out to be like just these tiny little things that can separate, you know, who we decide and not. And Kelly I liked because we asked her to do a lot there at the end too, and she came through with her three different reads, which I liked, uh, a whole lot. Uh, in terms of demographic too, I thought that she was appropriate. Um, I wanted, I wanted a little younger sound though that. Lau: I did too. Wonderful. I felt -- that felt just a little square, a little boxy for me. Like I, it had, again, she's got a good corporate feel. She's got a good businessy feel. Um, I wanted a-- I wanted more, it was a very staccato type of reads. I wanted more flowy-ness to it. I wanted more, more hangout energy. And also Aria was terrific, no question. I felt she's got age and room to grow. I thought she was a little too young for this one somehow. Anne: Okay. No, I would totally agree with you on that. Lau: But again, we're splitting hairs, you know? We're like going, okay, we're looking at union and non-union status, we're looking at diversity, we're looking at age, we're looking at all these different factors that separate people when really all of these people could be booked on this. Anne: Yeah. And just, you know, other words, you know, like for Nicole, Nicole really has that warm read down. I'll tell you. She really does. You know, I don't wanna leave this without feedback for all of, all of you. Um, because Nicole, you have that, that warm read. And that's something I think when you've got it, you know, go for it. When there are auditions that call for that warmth, go for them, because that seems to be a signature style for you. And then I'll, I'll say a little bit about let's see, who else was it that -- Josh. Right? Lau: And can I just say about Nicole before you leave that? See, okay. Again, listeners, you don't know what's in our head and how it's shifting so fast. Nicole was actually my first pick for this. But the, but the age, the diversity, diversity factor came in and this factor and that. See, and it shifted the game. It has nothing to do with, can Nicole do this job? Is she great and right for it? Of course she is. But there were other factors. Anne: I think everyone, every one of you could have done this job, No question. Um, and now we just talk about different factors in terms of demographic. So keep that in mind, guys, when you, when you let things get you down and you think that, oh, they didn't pick me, um, it has a lot to do with things other than just your voice or your performance. And also it could be like, well, I've worked with, uh, you know, I've worked with Manny before, and I just know he's gonna come through and give us whatever we want. Or, you know, I've worked with Nicole before, and you know, or my cousin knows Nicole and, and, and really recommends her or whatever it is, guys, don't let the fact that you don't get the gig, you know, you know, gets you down because there's so many things, so many, many factors here. Um, and like I say, all five of you I think could have done this job well. And what has shifted us, I think, is again, going back to what the, what the client wants, what we think is best for the brand. And always guys, I think if you can, can look up the brand. At this point, you've had some time with the script. Um, if you don't know the brand, go look at the brand. Look them up, Google's your friend, uh, find out who they're, who are they marketing to, What does their brand look like on the web? And try to really learn as much as you can about that brand because you're speaking on behalf of the brand. Not only are you telling the story of the script, but you're also speaking on behalf of the brand. So knowing -- the more you know, right, the more you know, uh, I think the more educated you are, the better, the better you're going to be. And sometimes, you know, it just, it comes down to, you know, splitting hairs like Lau said before. Lau: Yeah. And if you, even if you go, like, I just used this example the other day. Even if you go into like an Apple store and you're looking for a new Mac, and you go on the Mac, and you sort of test it out, you're going, okay, what's the capability of all this, all these programs? What is the this, what is the that? What does it look like? Is it easy to use? Do I like this pro -- da da da? What am I willing to pay for it? It's not that the Mac itself is not something that you could buy and love and enjoy and could work well. It's just the difference between this $1000 Mac and this $2,000 Mac, and what are the differences? So don't discount yourself or devalue yourself like, they don't like me, I'm not good enough. Whatever. No, you just may not have a quality or a program, if you will, that someone else has that we need for the job. Anne: And, and as we mentioned before, you know, there's a lot of, you know, can you sound younger? Right? That kind of thing. Like people, there's no way it, you know -- I may have a younger sounding voice given my age, but there's no way I'm going to sound millennial. Um, you know what I mean? And so like sometimes it's beyond your control also. Um, if they're looking for a gravitas, if they're looking for a texture and you don't -- I have a very clear voice. Right? If they want something that has more texture in it or rasp in it, that wouldn't be me. Um, but just knowing that can help you to just continue, I think always maintaining -- you know, be the best actor you can be because the things that you can control sometimes, like your voice, like the tone and the texture, and you know, there's lots of things you can do with vocal placement, with characters, but when it comes to this type of a read, where we're looking for authenticity, you know, it's, it's, we don't need you to go into character mode necessarily. Um, but we need authenticity. And that, that is, I think the, the, the thing that you can really concentrate on and practice and get better at as an actor. I think that's so important. Lau: And know knowing that, that self knowing of, of who you are and your brand, what your best qualities are, what your niche is, what is your niche market -- that honesty, that truthfulness will only set you free over time because it will free up a lot of your time so that you're not focusing on jobs that you're simply not gonna get because they can get the authentic read when that, you may not fall into that category. Just focus in those areas that are really your strong suits. Anne: Absolutely. Well then I think we've declared our winner, Lau. Lau: Woo. Anne: So congratulations to Manny. Lau: Yay, Manny. Anne: Um, you are our, you are our voice for Expedia. So congratulations, and thanks to all of you that came in and auditioned in our first podcast. Thanks to you guys who came back for the callbacks. I hope that you've gotten some value out of these, uh, two podcasts, and, uh, we hope to keep them coming your way. I think this could wrap up our episode. Lau: I love it. I mean, I love it. I mean, look at this, in less -- in just about two hours, little over two hours, we went through all the tech glitches, all the directions, all the preliminaries of auditions, the breakdown into the short list, then all the way up to the person who's gonna book the role. Anne: And you heard our brains, you heard us thinking and speaking out loud and casting. And so hopefully you all have a better understanding of what it takes to get cast and what's behind the casting, the casting glass. And, uh, yeah, you guys were all amazing. I really, really appreciate it. So with that being said, guys, I'm gonna give a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipDTL.com. Lau, you're amazing. BOSSes out there, you're amazing. Thank you so much. Have a -- an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Lau: Kudos to everyone. Thanks so much. Have a great weekend. Bye. Anne: Bye. Congrats. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

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What's the deal with representation? In this episode, Anne & Lau break down the basics. They share what agents do, how they can help with your career, & why you should (or shouldn't) sign with one. Lau shares her experience as an agent & what she does on a day-to-day basis while Anne gets answers to common questions voice actors have about having an agent. Agencies are businesses, but they have the power to help you find work, making them a potentially valuable part of your career. Unfortunately, there is no one-size-fits-all answer to the "do I need an agent" question. It depends on the kind of work you are looking to do & what your goals are. We know there are many ways to BOSS with and without an agent, but if you want to learn more, we've got you covered. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and our business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to bring back to the show my very special guest co-host, Lau Lapides. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. It's a good day, Lau. Lau: It's a great day. It's always a great day to talk voiceover. It's like we could, I was just saying we could talk forever. This podcast should be like day and night. It should never stop ever. 'Cause we could talk so much about it and life and being a human being and all the things we care about. There you go alongside that. Anne: So I do wanna say that we recently just met and really clicked and of course I'm super excited that you are now representing me. And I thought about it because I love the fact that I think you get almost as excited, if not more excited about providing me with opportunities than I do about being repped by you. Lau: Totally. Anne: And I thought it would be a great time to talk about, should we get representation? What's the deal with representation or should we not? Because I get that question all the time from my students. Lau: Oh my gosh. I do too. It's an ongoing conversation. It's a great discussion to have; all questions are good questions. There's no answer to it. I don't think there's a specific answer to it, but the discussion's really important to have, and you're right. I do get really off on getting the work for others. I love you do the feeling. And I was trying to think back when I was a performer full time. I dunno if I felt that way about even myself. Like I was always kind of that agent manager type, you know what I mean? I was just kind of like that Jewishy producer myself, you know, kind of thing, New Yorky thing, whatever that is. I love it. I love it. Not just for the work itself, but for the process of being able to get someone inside of something that they're on the outside of. It's almost like a secret. To me, it's like a safe, like I get to help someone find the combination to the safe. Anne: Oh, I love that. Lau: And get inside of it and discover what the treasures are. Sometimes it's money and sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's just a whole bunch of like a portal of a world that you weren't in before. It's Narnia's closet. That's what it is. Anne: I love it. Well, I have to say I've done casting myself, and I always love that let's fit this voice talent to this job. And it's wonderful when it comes together like that. Lau: It is, it is. Anne: And so I think that it is having agents is a wonderful thing. However, agents solely represent a portion of where I get my opportunities from. And I always try to explain that to anybody who like, when they first start getting into the business, they're like, when do I get an agent? I need an agent. I'm like, well, I literally was working in the industry for about four years full time before I got my first agent. I think it's helpful to really understand the role that agents play in helping to get work for voice talent. So let's start with you, Lau. Tell me a little bit about your role as an agent and what types of are specific genres that you specialize in. Lau: So I have now been in an agent capacity for about two and a half years. So I'm still relatively young in the agent world. I was a coach and for many years, still am, and a performer myself, still am. But I mean, that happened well, we were right in the middle of the COVID and you know, as a business thinker immediately, I start thinking, what problem can I solve? Who needs, what, who needs what, what's missing, what's missing. So we're Boston based in the new England market. I said, oh, I don't know of any voiceover divisions. We don't have a department in an agency that's voiceover. We have some great studios that will do casting, but we just don't have that like a New York, like an LA has that. And I sort of aspired to be like the big guys. I always said, well, now we're in a global market, right? We're in the middle of COVID, we're locked in our houses, everyone's still doing voiceover. And I said, what can we do? So I wanted to open this division, and I ended up pioneering the MCVO and opening it under the umbrella of Model Club. That's my colleague, Tim Ayers who owns and operates Model Club. So it was a really interesting, unorthodox way of working where this company, my company Lau Lapides started to become a contractor to a licensed agency to start a division that we had the knowledge of how to do that. So we went ahead and did that, started stocking the roster. And I sort of have been around agents for most of my life. Anne: That was stocking the roster, not stalking, right? Okay. Lau: Stocking, like adding people in, adding voices in like -- Anne: Stock. Lau: Yeah, stock. Anne: Not stalk. Lau: No, not stalk. All right. I have to articulate that one really well. Right? . Anne: I think that was that New York accent Lau: It was that New York accent. And I had to learn as I went, to be honest with you. I think this is the kind of trade that people who go into casting or go into agency work are working with agencies and working with casting. And they're apprenticing and they're learning how to do it as they go. You can't learn it in a classroom. It's not that type of thing. And so I was learning through the years how to do these things by kind of doing it. And this was a fit and this was kismet. And then I launched it when we launched it. You can imagine we had immediate response from talent all over the place -- Anne: Oh, I bet. Yeah. Lau: -- who wanted to submit because it's exciting simply to have a voiceover agency or voiceover division. And so that was kind of cool and exciting, and then figuring out how do we connect to breakdowns and how do we get some of the best auditions, and how do we connect the dots with current clients, whether they're regional clients or national clients, and just sort of spend time figuring that out and doing that. But we were lucky in in the sense that we started getting great auditions almost immediately, like -- Anne: That's great. Lau: -- between the clients that we already had, Tim already had, and my connections nationally, we started getting a lot of stuff in, and it was almost overwhelming to, to find talent for that. Anne: I wanna just kind of interject here because I think most talent don't think about what is a talent agency, right? And I just wanna kind of bring it home and say, we need to understand that a talent agency or an agent, they are a business. And their business is to match clients up with voice talent. And so they have their own work to do in terms of securing clients that and advertising to clients, that they have a great roster that they can help fulfill that need. So I think sometimes voice talent forget that agents, they aren't magic. They don't have magical clients. They have to do a ton of work to get those clients and to keep those clients. So understanding that an agent is also a business will help you to understand that once you have an agent, when you get an agent, there needs to be a relationship there, where we both can benefit each other. And that agents are also in a business and need to make money. And part of that is by matching clients to talent. And if there is a profit margin there, then obviously the agent is going to work that deal. And the reason I bring that up, Lau, is because I think that a lot of agents work specifically in broadcast media, because there's opportunity for more profit there versus let's say a one0off non-broadcast sort of a deal. So maybe you can expand upon that a little bit. Lau: Yeah. I mean, I think just a baseline for people who are learning about agencies, or maybe wanting to tier up to the next level of a better quality agency, just simply put agencies are the middle people. They're the middle women, middle men. They're in the middle. So they're the contract dealers, the negotiation people, the people who find the talent, connect the talent to the job, help with casting. The -- we're not casting directors per se. We don't take the place of a casting director, but we do help in all sorts of capacities. And we do get clients that say, hey, what are your thoughts? Like, can you help narrow this down? Anne: You do shortlist, right? You do shortlist? Lau: You do shortlist. Anne: I was gonna say, yep. Lau: You do recommendations. You do shortlist. And because sometimes they happen very fast, they will rely on you to make quick recommendations and have very quick answers to questions, questions on availability, questions on rate structure, questions on union status. Anne: Sure. Lau: Questions on what their setup is in their home studio. So there's a lot of stuff that has to happen that goes through the agent that has to happen fast. And the reason they'll go to an agent, many reasons, but one is for speed, so that they know that they're gonna have their stuff when they need it as quickly as possible. They don't have to chase the talent. Anne: That makes sense. And they don't have to cast the net wide and make their own decisions. So, yeah. And I think, so, let me ask you a question. Do, do the majority of agencies, or is this really dependent, do they shortlist themselves or it depends on the client if the client is looking for -- Lau: Yeah, it depends on the client. And once in a while you will have a private client that is with other agencies as well. So like if it's something that's on a national platform or even a regional, if you're going through a casting office, they'll have other agencies. They'll be submitting their top talent from other agencies. They'll whittle that down fairly quickly. And then they'll, you know, reach out to you. As an agency, you're never the only fish in the ocean. Anne: Right. Lau: I think the, what agents try to get is private clients. Like we love private clients. Because we know like when I get a company, that's, let's say they're a regional company, and they're gonna cast and they reach out to us, I know that like eight times out of ten, we're gonna book that job. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: We're gonna book that job because they're privatized. We have a relationship them. We can provide the same talent over and over and over again. Whereas sometimes it's a hit or miss if you're going through casting -- Anne: And you're reliable. Exactly. Lau: Right. Anne: Just as we need to be as voice talent. Right? Just as we need to be to our clients. Right? Agents need to be that to their clients. Absolutely. Lau: Exactly. So the relational factor's really, really important. And then of course they are assuming and rightly so that we're doing a screening process that they don't have to do. Anne: Right. Lau: They don't have to audition. They don't have to find the talent. Anne: Right. Lau: They don't have to do any of that. We're doing that. Anne: Right. They rely on you because they know that you have a roster of professional talents that their studios have already been vetted. You already are familiar with the roster and their specialties and availability, that's another big thing. Right? Lau: That's right. Anne: Who's available? And so that I think really takes care a lot of the tedious details that they don't wanna have to deal with. And so. Lau: Oh no, they don't wanna deal with any of that. Anne: They reach out and oh gosh. Do I even begin in saying like the naming of files, of audition files? Lau: Oh, it's endless. Anne: Who takes care of that? Lau: It's endless. That's right. I always joke. It's like they don't wanna have Jim in cubicle C handling that because Jim doesn't know how to do that, if you know what I mean? Like they don't get any of that. And so it would be overwhelming to them to go into a big pocket of say, thousands of voices to try to find what they're looking for. That would be way too overwhelming and time consuming to do. So that's another reason why they still go to agencies because they know it's not gonna be thousands and thousands of voices. It's gonna be the top 500 voices for critique. And then out of that, the specific submission for their criteria of their breakdown. And then they've got their top 15, 20, 25 people, which is more than enough for them, 'cause they know again, they're screened in their top to find who they need. And it's funny because at the beginning Tim went from, oh, it's okay. I mean, if they have an iPhone, and they can can record in their iPhone they don't need a home studio, different -- to, okay. You need a studio, a source connect. And I was like, no, we want the best talent nationwide if not international, because we are now competing against very large agencies in the hub. So we don't wanna shorter ourselves by saying, oh, as long as they can jump on a phone and do something. No, no, we wanna have the industry standards in place so that if we book a McDonald's or we book a Dunkin Donuts, so we're really ready for that because they're auditioning your studio as much as they're auditioning you now. Anne: Isn't that the truth? Lau: Everyone knows. Anne: That is the truth. Lau: So the agent depends on that. . Anne: I love that we're learning about agencies from the agency's business side because it really can help us as voice talent to understand like your day-to-day kind of activities. Like let's talk about your day when you are throwing out an audition to people. So tell me, what do you do as an agent when you are casting? Lau: Well, I'm a little bit unorthodox in the sense that I now run two businesses. So I run my studio , which is separate, very separate, then the agency side from MC Inc. So when I run the agency side, we're constantly getting in auditions, which we've been filtered by the different relationships we have, the services we work with, but so they're coming in sometimes daily. They're coming in throughout the day. We're looking at them, making sure that they're legit, they're coming from where they need to come from, and then getting them out as quickly as possible. And that can be a challenge too, because if we're working on other work or we're recording or we're coaching or we're whatever, we have to really multitask or stop what we're doing to do that. Because I know once that audition comes to me, there's a chance it's gone out to X amount of other agencies. Anne: Sure. Right. Lau: So I gotta get my sneakers on and get that out really fast before some of my talent may get that from another agency. Anne: Sure. Now question. Yeah. In terms of like audition deadlines, so this is the bane of my existence, right, with my agents. Right? Because I don't have a lot of time during my day however, so when my auditions come in from my agents, I wanna turn that around quickly, as quickly as I possibly can. So when you understand, let's say, okay, here's your audition. Deadline is this date, are you determining that date for your agency? Or is that the client that's determining that date? Lau: Well, the client gives us the truest date that they have. I don't know how accurate it is to their inside process. Anne: Right, right. Lau: But they'll give us the hard deadline of what they need. Then we'll move the deadline in so that we have time to process it. Anne: Sure, sure. Lau: And we also have time for retake. So let's say there's someone that we have to have in on this audition, but he's on vacation and he is in the mountains and he has no reception, but he can do it tonight or tomorrow, we'll hold that for him so he can do that if possible. So we always time it. So let's say it's due Thursday at 5:00 PM Eastern. We'll time it so that we're getting it in by like Wednesday, if possible, so that we can process it and leave time for problems as they arrive. Anne: And so when you say process it, you are downloading the audition file. You are doing shortlisting if you have to, if your client has asked you to. Correct? Lau: Yeah. Anne: And so is that you personally, or do you have a team that helps you to do that? Lau: We have a team. I have a team that helps me do that. And the industry standard now is Dropbox. So we're all using Dropbox to transfer our files, and even going out now, I'm watching slates go out. So slates are slowly going out where we're sending in a zip or we're sending in a pack and they know where it's coming from. So we don't actually need a slate. So some of the private clients and some of the companies we work with say no slate. We don't wanna hear it. We don't need it. Great. Anne: Okay. Nice. Lau: One less thing to do. That's good. Anne: Sure. Lau: And then we try hard to establish our own protocols if they don't give us direction on labeling and they don't give us direction on this or that. We try to say, listen, we're just not always getting that from the client because they don't care about it. They don't know about it. And it's not relevant. So just do this when you don't hear about it, just do this. Anne: Whoever has to download the files, this is the way I feel, whoever has to download the files needs to be the one that determines how the file is named. Lau: Yeah, exactly. And sometimes agents will send it out and you just won't get that direction, and people are confused. They'll say, wait a second. Am I missing something? I'll say, no, they didn't give us that direction. We're not giving it to you. So just go to your default of, we always label like this, label like this. Anne: I would say name, project, Anne Ganguzza dash and then name of the job. That's my default. That's it. Lau: I do say, Anne, one of the biggest things you can have as a benefit for yourself is speed. Because ours are not that speedy. We're not like a pay-to-play site where you have to get in in 10, 15 minutes. We'll give you a day. We'll give you two, even three days, sometimes like a really long time. But if people are gonna wait until the third day, what'll happen is like, I already know there's a natural bell curve in every roster. I know like the top voices we have, unless they're already on another gig or they're on vacation, they're gonna submit within about an hour or two. And I just know they're gonna be the first ones up for it because A, they're great like you, but B, they may cut that audition off because they may get enough in the first day. And then they don't need to listen to day two or day three. Anne: Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Lau: So I just say to people, you know, don't, don't put yourself under a terrible rush, but don't wait until the last minute either. You know, get it in as soon as you possibly can, move it out the way because those, as I notice our booking ratios, those people tend to be booking more than folks who are waiting longer. Anne: The ones that get it in first, yep. That makes sense. Lau: They are. Anne: That makes sense because at some point too, I think that we have to realize that when you're listening to so many auditions at one time, at some point it starts to become like white noise. . Lau: I would imagine it's overwhelming. Anne: I's overwhelming. Lau: Even it's hard for us to listen to demo submissions sometimes so if we get 10 or 15 at a time, it's time consuming, and we wanna give it what it needs, the attention that it needs. But we have to be careful with the time. Anne: It just brings me back to like, this is what we're always saying is that you need to differentiate yourself from the pack when you're sending in that audition. And it doesn't mean that you're different is like -- a lot of times I'll look at the spec and I'll be like, okay, I get it. But I still wanna add my own unique spin on it because everybody else is gonna look at those specs and try to do it exactly like those specs or what we think they want to hear. And so I think making it more unique in that audition, I mean, for me, it's what have I got to lose in making it unique? I mean, if I can make it unique, they're gonna know that I have the capability of making it sound just like in my head it says it should sound like. Lau: Sure, sure. Anne: So I'm not gonna give them that. I don't wanna give 'em what I think it should sound like. I wanna give 'em that unique take so that it, it makes them wake up. Lau: That's right. Anne: It makes them get me the gig and then they can direct me to whatever they want afterwards. Lau: And, and do it up front because you don't know if they're gonna listen to your entire demo. Anne: Exactly. Lau: And some of the demos we get are not even industry standard. They'll go on for two or three minutes. Very rarely will we listen to a three-minute demo just because we get it, like the first two reads or three reads, like we get it, we get what you can do. So put something up front that's your strong suit, something you get hired for all the time, and then put something that's incredibly diverse and varied from that right next to it. Anne: Are you talking audition or are you talking demo? So like -- Lau: I'm talking demo. Anne: Okay. Lau: I'm talking demo, but also audition. I would say audition as well, because let's say they don't say how many takes they want. I'd say, okay, if you can do three unique takes, do three unique takes, right? What's the worst? They don't listen to them all. But if they do and they really love your voice, make them super diverse, super unique, and very pinpointed as to where you live and where your voice lives. Because there wouldn't be any reason as send in more than one take that sound the same. Anne: Right, right, exactly. Lau: That's a very, a common mistake that people make, you know, otherwise you send one great take, just do your best. Take one great take and call it a day. But if you can do diverse or -- Anne: A completely different. Lau: -- do it. Yeah, do it. Anne: Absolutely. So now let me ask you a question. So when should voice talent search for an agent? Is there a time? Lau: Again, I'm really unorthodox about that. I know a lot of agent friends I have say, don't talk to me until you get like five years under your belt. You've already been with an agency. I got some good credits and I love your demo, and I trust you because that's what I represent. And I get that. I don't feel that way actually. I feel like people should be up for it when they feel ready. And then it's very quick to tell if we think that they're ready. Even if they haven't worked yet, even if they have no resume, we've taken in some people that are amazing, that are new. They're just new. They're coming in. They did a beautiful demo. They're clearly professional in the way in which they write to us. I just instantly like them. I said, why would I hold them back on the basis of like that they haven't worked? They have to get work to work. So if we love their voice and we feel like, oh, we've got a market for their sound, bring them in. Right? But the bread and butter voice is always gonna go first because we have a lot of fans of animation and video game and all of that great stuff. It's just, for us, it's not gonna be the big market for us. And it isn't for a lot of agencies. I think agencies more and more are bringing in slowly animation opportunities, but much of their stuff is just real person stuff. Anne: I'm glad you said that. So I'm gonna say some agencies specialize in just animation or that's their thing. And I would say that those would be located more in the places like LA and those markets where animation is there, but in terms of other agencies, I'm gonna say, yeah, your bread and butter is commercial for the most part, right? Lau: Yeah. Yeah. It is. For the most part. It is. Yeah. Once in a while, we'll see an animation come through, we'll see a narration come through. We'll see a couple different things, but yes. And I have found that with friends that run agencies too. Once in a while, they'll get a great industrial or a really nice nice eLearning piece. But much of the time they're just doing as many nationals as they can get in and as many of their regional market and their local folks, as they can get in to really, really pay the bills. Anne: Good. I'm so glad you said that. And I just wanna kind of make that point to the BOSSes out there. It becomes, where can you make a profit? And I don't mean to make all agents to be all like hungry, profit driven people, but you are a business. And so for the most part, those nationals and those regionals, those are the ones that are bringing in the money in, the consistent money, right, that will be able to make a profit so that you can survive as an agency. So then I wanna also point out that if you are a voice talent, and the majority of your business is e-learning or corporate and that sort of thing, I have a ton of, and I know a lot of voice actors where they have a lot of work in that area -- that happens to be where I do a lot of my work as well. So in terms of, for me, when I was getting agents, I have like 10 agents all scattered around. It doesn't mean that I get auditions from all 10 agents all the time. And I have certain agents that I work closely with because I book with them and we have a relationship. And so that's where my auditions come from, my agents. Lau: That's right, that's right. Anne: So I will take the time to do that. But those jobs that they're offering, they're almost all broadcast commercial genre. And I do get a couple of industrials once in a while from one of my agents. And so if you BOSSes are out there, if you are not necessarily booking in commercial yet, or you're not interested in commercial, then maybe an agent, you don't need one right away. I think everybody should have an agent. I think everyone, at some point should have a commercial demo. But if that is not in your future, that you don't like commercials. You don't think you'd ever wanna do one. And you just wanna spend your career doing eLearning, then that's absolutely fine. Lau: Absolutely. By no means do you have to have an agent in order to work because the world is filled with so many different, wonderful genres of voiceover. You just need to be inventive and clever about doing your homework and doing your research in these different genres. Like for instance, I recently brought into our studio, one of the big romance and erotica voiceover instructors, and she did a wonderful workshop for us. Anne, I knew nothing about that. I did, I just didn't know about--and she talked a long time, a good hour about the business of it, like where to find work. How to list your name, how to do this, how to charge your rates, how to -- and I think, wow, this is great. So do I need an agent for that? No, I really don't. Could I get an agent later in the right market? Probably, but you don't need it. So, so you have to determine, gee okay. If this is my bread and butter market, I probably wanna get an agent to get the upper level auditions, but in these other areas, I can probably make my own inroads and my own connections. Get some great clients into a combination of the two. Anne: Absolutely, absolutely. BOSSes, it's not necessary to have an agent to get work. You can get work in multiple genres without necessarily have an agent, but I'm the type of person that I like to have opportunities, as many opportunities as I can. Thus, I think it's wonderful that I have these amazing agents, like Lau, that are on my team. They're on my side. They wanna see me work. They wanna get me work, and it becomes a relationship just like you have a relationship. And I love that we talked so much about your business of the agency because a lot of times, voice talent don't, they don't think about it and they don't realize it. And I think if they understood the perspective from your side as a business, it helps us to form, I think, a better relationship with you, because we understand where things come from, and why do I get that audition at 8:00 at night? Well, because all day long, they've been fielding emails and dealing with clients and you are getting it out as quick as you can to us. Lau: Yeah. And maybe it's coming from a different time zone. Anne: There you go. Exactly. So there's lots of things that we may not think about when we get an audition in for our agent. And also in terms of like, well, is my agent listening to me and shortlisting me or not? Or is it the client? Or how do I know that this audition wasn't sent out to hundreds of other people? And I think the really good agents understand the opportunity and will send it to the group of people that would be great for the opportunity. Sometimes I have agents that it seems like maybe they didn't do that. Maybe I just got like the generic send out all auditions to all the roster, and therefore I make my own decision. Lau: Yeah. I know, people hate that. They're not filtering . Anne: I know, but I'm thankful for the opportunity. And so, I mean, come on, we can all handle looking at audition and looking at the specs. If you don't fit the specs, don't respond. Lau: I was always the same way too. I was like, okay, it's not for me. Anne: Yeah. I would never complain about that. It actually kind of bothers me that I see some people complaining about that, the cattle call auditions. I'm like my gosh, it's, it's an opportunity. And it takes me a minute to look at those specs and read them and say, do I fit those specs? Am I male? No. So guess what? I, thanks. I'm fine. Just waiting for the next one. So -- Lau: It'd be like clients just from different businesses calling you or emailing you, be like, do you know, we don't do that? That's not what we do. And I'm surprised you would call me. We'd say, oh, how interesting, let me refer you to someone or let me find out more about you, what have you. Anne: I like that. Right. And that goes back like, look, if I got a castings spec, and I've done this before, where it didn't fit me, but I said, oh man, I know a perfect voice for that, I actually would write back to that agent and say, I have a great recommendation. Can I send this audition? Would you be open for me to send this audition? Lau: I love you. I love you. I love people like you and I have a number of people in MCVO that do just that. They say, Lau, you know, it's not me, but I've got friends who are actually this. May I forward them. And I'm like, yes. I love that. Anne: That's why I'm just grateful. I'm grateful to get the opportunity. And, and I just look at it as like, look at another, I get tons of email. It's okay. I can filter. It's not that big of a deal. Takes me a minute. Lau: You think like. I think it's just another job and why don't I wanna see a job? I'm gonna keep the script. I'm gonna have it as a reference. It's interesting to see who the producer is. I love it. Anne: Yeah. You learn a lot. Like, so what if that audition wasn't for me? Oh, that's kind of cool. I like that script. Right? You can just choose to learn. It's like one of the things, just an off topic, but when people say, well, how do I get work in corporate? Right? And I say, well, I go to company websites and I sign up for their mailing list because I wanna see who their audience is and how they're marketing to it. And so if I get the job with that company, I have a background information where I understand who that company is, who their audience is, what their brand stands for. I have all that knowledge that I can then use in a audition for them or in, in correspondence with them. And so the same thing. You can learn a lot. So. Lau: I'm exactly like that. As business people, as BOSSes, you wanna be inquisitive. You wanna be curious. You wanna know like, ooh, what's happening in that world? Oh my goodness. Who are they talking to and what are they concerned about here? And who are they looking for? I always say like, when you get an audition, get used to hopping on your smartphone, just like really fast. Look up an advertising campaign. See the kinds of actors they're bringing in. What does the company visually look like? What does it sound like right now? Just get a flavor of that. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: You may not have time to do massive research, but just to hop on for five minutes. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Like we need to be able to do that as business people. If we're gonna work with a new client. Oh, sorry. So don't you hate, Anne, oh, sorry, I didn't have time to go to your website. Sorry. I don't know exactly what you do. Anne: No, my God. Lau: It's at your fingertips. Just jump on for five minutes to have a little bit of language. Anne: If you're a student of mine, and you didn't check out the website, like that is just no. Lau: Or go on YouTube. Anne: That is not acceptable. Lau: What are they doing, you know? Anne: That is not acceptable, not acceptable that you did not research the company, but like it takes a minute. Takes a minute. Lau: Yeah. What about this one? I don't, I don't know how to pronounce this. How do you pronounce it? Anne: Oh my gosh. Lau: I said, well, go online, go find -- have an actor say it so that you hear what it sounds like. Don't just guess at it or not worry about it. Anne: We need to act like BOSSes, the BOSSes that we are. So what a great conversation. I love -- this was such a unique perspective. Thank you, Lau, for sharing that with us and sharing with the BOSSes. I think that's amazing. I would like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and learn like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also if you wanna make a difference with your voice and give back to those communities that give to you, check out 100voiceswhocare.org to find out how you can give back and have a sense of purpose. All right, guys. Amazing talk. Thanks again, Lau. We will see you next week. Bye. Lau: Thank you, BOSSes. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Sometimes we get so wrapped up in doing what we love that we forget that our work is still just work (even if it's the most fun job in the world). This week, Anne & Lau are joined by special guests Aria Lapides, Carol Alpert & Daniel Marion to discuss how & why community support is so important. Building a creative family includes building support systems outside of your professional circle. This may include your family, friends, and even other voice actors who you can count on for help. The voice-over industry is a small world, and it's important to build relationships with fellow actors and creatives. They will help you grow, learn, and encourage you when things get tough. It can be hard to separate our egos from our projects but being able to do this allows us to accept criticism more easily. Tune in to join this VO Family… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Vo BOSS podcast and the business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to bring back my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, how are you? Lau: Hey, I'm great, Anne. How you doing? Anne: I'm doing amazing. We have a VO Family with us today. I am very excited. . Anne: Well you know, I think having people that support us in our businesses is so very important to our success. And I don't know honestly where I would be if my husband in the beginning had not given me his full support in launching our business. For an entrepreneur, launching a business, especially coming from a corporate background, I was used to getting that check every other week. And I had a very stable, I was gonna make this amount of money, and I was dependent on that to pay the bills. And going into the entrepreneurship of my VO business, all of a sudden things became very woo, I don't know what's happening today. I don't know what's happening tomorrow. When's my next job coming? And I'll tell you, the support of my husband was just invaluable and the support of my family too. I mean, I know there's so many of my students who will tell me stories about their families don't support them or -- I myself had my mother, God bless her. But she would say to me every once in a while 'cause she didn't understand exactly what I was doing. And she would say, you know, honey , when you get a real job, I think it's gonna help. You know? And I would be like . I would be like, It's okay. Mom, I'm an entrepreneur. And it was funny because it was hard to explain to people who don't understand the entrepreneurship lifestyle. Thoughts? Lau: Uh yes. And it's almost unexplainable. I mean you cannot -- it's truly a lifestyle business. It's one that you live and you experience and you have to be suited for it. Not everyone is suited for it. Many people want a nine to five job. They want Benny's, they want pension, and God bless them, and I'm happy that they know that. Like I'm one of those people that knows I don't want that. So you have to be okay with not being okay a lot. It's really important. Remember that famous book from the 70s, "I'm Okay, You're Okay," that famous psychology book? Well, we're not always okay. And so that's the little edginess, that's the little on the edge of the cliff that a lot of us love the dopamine kick and get excited by the risk taking of it all. So yeah, you have to be cut out for it, right Anne? Anne: Absolutely have to be cut out for it. Or if you're not cut out for it, you gotta get used to it pretty darn quick. It's always one of of those things. There's a lot of highs. There's a lot of lows. For me getting used to the lows and kind of driving through them, and we've talked about this on previous podcasts, really is a mental exercise in pushing good energy out there so that you can survive. So let's introduce the VO Family that we have here today. Now Lau, these are part of your VO Family, so let's have you introduce them. Lau: Oh, I would love to. So I have Carol Alpert, who we were talking about on another podcast. I don't think Carol was here. So I love talking about her when she's not here because then I can kvell, which is Yiddish for like just give her honors and awards and accolades and kudos, because everyone needs a Carol. Like if you could buy a Carol, you would buy it, put it on layaway. It doesn't matter how much it costs, it's so worth it, because she is my friend, my family, my support system. She's a sister I never had, so I can't say enough about Carol. Carol: Thank you. Lau: Professional actress and VO talent herself in her own right. And I'm thrilled to have her as part of our Family going in our 14th year. And we have Dan Marion with us from Texas who is just the bestest of the best, fantastic person. And you know, we haven't actually known Dan too, too long. I don't know, maybe a year, year and a half. But yet there's always this feeling with people that come into your non-blood related family that you've known them forever. And he's like one of those people that even across the Zoom waves and even across the states, we feel like he's part of us and one of our family, and that we support 100% in every way. Pro VO, part of our MCVO division family as Carol is as well. So that's thrilling, and he's a wonderful coach as well as has technical prowess as well. And then Aria Lapides, who is in the house and she is my everything. Anne: She's in the real house. Lau: She's in the real house 'cause she's like, I call her my better half. She is my daughter but has turned into my business partner and my best friend and really just a spiritual little fairy cohort for me to keep me floating, and to keep me imagining, and to keep me together in this whole crazy business we've created. And in her own right is now a professional actress and filmmaker and photographer and is really incredible visual and performance artist. And so she's a big part of our Family. Anne: Fantastic. So you have coworkers, you have two coworkers and a family member. So first of all, let's talk -- Aria. Being a member of the family, what's it like for you being a part of the business and being part of the support for your mom and in this voiceover industry? Aria: Oh wow. That's a big question, especially 'cause it's not just voiceover, it's so many things. It's all in acting and everything that you guys said is so true, the importance of having people to support you. Because in this industry, it's so blind. Like when you're sending a voiceover audition or a casting audition or a acting audition, it's blind. So all you have is your support team and how much they're pushing you and how much they're being truthful with you. And I could say that, you know, even though it's like I'm supporting my mom, which I do, of course, it's like she's supporting me just as much if not even more. Like she supports me in everything. And it's so important because there's so many different aspects from technical to the actual acting values that have to be there to, well what happens when I do get the job? Like what do I do? Yeah, I would say that it's a really amazing because I've been able to grow up in an industry that's very creative, very cool. Like really, really cool. Um, I know some people have family businesses that are a supermarket. So it's really cool to be in one that's very creative. Things are very open, you can coach, you -- I mean I've dived into filmmaking and producing acting reels and working with actors and, and I gotta say, it, it is really so cool to see like my mom every single day like have new ideas and new things that she's doing all the time. Like she's always so active and she's, she's right. It's a lifestyle business. She's almost never not working, which is wild. Lau: And you know, Anne, what's really amazing here is that both of my children, my son's Sage, who's incredible -- he's not in the industry, he's in a totally different industry -- were homeschooled. And so I was bringing them up as I was starting the business and running the business, which was crazy. Like it was crazy town. You can't imagine. So who knew this crazy little girl who was like throwing legos at me one day, it would kick in that she would be coaching clients and she would be directing a film shoot and she would be voiceover auditioning for Pixar. And it feels like that happened overnight. Like that just happened overnight. It's like how you and I feel about our clients. Anne, it's like you see the grooming of that throughout the years of the rapport, the relationship, the trust, the back and forth. And then all of a sudden it kicks into something in high gear that you see all of your hard work and investment in your business come alive. And I've seen that in Aria literally since a little tiny girl to now like the business has just created this whole human being that knows so much for someone who's only 19. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Incredible. Anne: Now, I'm gonna ask do you two disagree at times? I mean -- Lau: Yes. Anne: -- family wise or work wise? Lau: Yes. Anne: And how does that play out? How does that interact with your businesses? Aria: Can I start on this one? Anne: Of course. Aria: 'Cause it's so funny that you say that because, yeah, because like especially in like let's take filming for instance, it's so hard. And that's so interesting that you asked that 'cause me and my mom were having this conversation last night of like being able to let go of control and knowing that you are not your work. Like even my mom's business is not her. I mean me and my house is separate from me filming, me acting, me doing anything that's a separate entity from who I am. And there's like this level of separation that you have to do to be able to give over the control to a director or to your mom or to a casting agent to be like, that's a beautiful image. That's a beautiful take on this, but it's completely different, and we need you to do that. And it's like separating your ego from your work. And it's a really, really tough thing to do, especially from a young age, 'cause you're like, wait a second, I thought my ego was the thing that was driving these creative things that are happening. But it's like, no, no, no, no. It's just an idea. It's constantly shifting and changing. So the more that you are flexible with it, the more you can get better at it really. Yeah. Lau: Anne, I wanna jump in on that one 'cause that's a fantastic question. I'm actually gonna answer that super straightforward because Aria recently secured new agency representation, really big out of LA. And one of the meetings they had with me because I'm her momager, and for those people who don't know what a momager is, it's a manager, a legit manager who's also a mom. Or it could be a dad, like a dadager. But I'm a momager. One of the first questions they asked of me in private was, do you guys fight? And he comes from the, literally the school that I come from where we're in the same program together. And I looked at him and I said, yep, 'cause I'm also her coach for all of of her auditions. And he said, how does that play itself out? How do you guys remedy that, whatever. And are you honest with her? See this is good for the VOs to be listening to because if they deal with the manager or if they're dealing with a family member, they have to like start having these lines of demarcation. Like what works for their personal relationship and what works for their professional relationship. And I leaned over and I said, yep. Because I tell her the truth, because I want her to be the best. If, if she sucks, I'm gonna be the one to tell her before anyone else does. And he said, great, I'm glad to hear that. So we'll probably take her on then. Now if I had said no, she's the best thing since sliced bread, I would never fight with her. In fact, she needs to be a star. In fact you -- they wouldn't have taken her. They would not have taken her. And this is like the deal for all VOs when you're dealing with agents and and managers and the like. It's like be honest. Like be honest. You don't wanna be the person who's a difficult person, who is always causing conflict. And we're certainly not that. But you wanna be honest and transparent about, yeah. When you're working hard on your craft, there's a lot of rocky road, there's obstacles, there's just agreements, there's arguments. Yeah. There is, and how do you work through it? How do you problem solve it? That's what we're hiring you for. That's why we wanna work with you. Not because you're sitting in a place where you're angry or you're not talking to each other, it's not working out. But a place where you go through that wall and you get to the other side of it. And I believe that's what Aria and I has done through the years to be successful. Anne: I just wanna say congratulations and kudos on that. And what you said I thought was so important was getting to the other side, right? Because you're friends, you're work partners, you're family, there's going to be times where there's probably going to be arguments, there's going to be anger, there's gonna be hurt. And you have to be able to get to the other side of that so that you can move forward. And I think that was such an important point that you bring up, Lau. Absolutely. Lau: Yes. And there have been many times, and I'm sure parents who are listening to this right now with their children who may be in the industry, or they're in the industry, or they're both in the industry, sort of swimming through those very muddy waters thinking what do I do? What do I do? And I've been advised many times by pro saying, Lau, you need to not work with her. It's really important. Don't work with her. Don't bring her into the business. Don't manage her because you wanna have a good relationship with her. And I said, no, no, no, no, no. If all the families through all the generations could work together, we can work together. It's just going to be a little bit more challenging, but we gotta be able to problem solve that. 'Cause your family and your Family should be the most trustworthy people that you surround yourself with. Not that you can't get awesome friends in the world, but they're the people you come back to and home to and confide to. And so you don't wanna lose that. You don't wanna cut that off just because we are blood-related. Anne: So let me just direct a question back at you, Lau. How has Aria helped you grow? Lau: In every way. I mean like it's immeasurable. I can't even tell you just from the idea of being, or the fact of being her mother has opened up so many doors in me as a person, as an actor, as a woman that I would not have experienced if I had not experienced her. Not easy, very difficult road, but very, very, very spiritual. The path less taken in a lot of ways, in how we melded this whole thing together, and adjust my stroke of luck I think that I had a daughter who had such immense talent in these fields. Because just because someone grows up in the industry and on a Hollywood set or wherever doesn't mean they have talent for it. It means they're connected. So she has immense talent, and much of which has nothing to do with me. Like she's a visual artist. I'm not a visual artist. She's an amazing visual artist. Aria: Even if you are talented, that's just such a small part of it. Because if we were all just talented, then you know, we would all be in Hollywood. But it really takes that group of support. I mean, you know, Carol came to the studio for me to help shoot one of her tapes, and then I'll ask someone to help you reader. And it's because we've got such a tightknit -- I mean even the new talent inner circle membership that's created a completely new community of people, of voiceovers and people who are actors and stuff. To have a community of people, to reach out, to ask what do you think about this, And ask different questions, it's so important. Because I'll say this, when my mom's not coaching me, my agency can tell. Anne: Mm, okay. Aria: They can tell. Lau: That is true. I do wanna say though, based on Anne's question, which I think is a brilliant question and a hard one to answer, is that she echoes back to me what I have taught her and given to her through the years. So I know that it actually happened. So there's a documentation that happened, and she teaches me all sorts of things that I didn't teach her that I need to learn. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: So it's now an -- Anne: That's wonderful. Lau: -- reciprocal relationship professionally and personally that she authentically knows so much more than I do in so many ways, that I'm growing constantly as a person, as an artist, as a business person, just learning. 'Cause I think it's a myth that we're not, not learning from our kids or not learning from youth. It's really we're learning so, so much from them, we're just maybe not aware of it or we're not acknowledging it. Right? So I'm very aware of it, that there's so much that she and others in that generation as well are giving back and teaching that -- Anne: Oh yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Lau: -- going back. So it's measurable, it really is. I would say she's singlehandedly brought the business to a whole other level that it may not have gone to without her. Anne: That's fantastic. So now, Carol. Carol: Yeah. Anne: You have a professional and a personal relationship with Lau. I'm not sure which happened first. So let's talk about your story. What about prior to meeting Lau and prior to working with Lau, how was your support system? Did you have a support system? And then what happened when you connected with Lau and how has that helped you? Carol: Sure. Sure. And it's funny, I was thinking about that before. So I had a very long career in the airline industry. I worked for about 22 years, and then I had left, I took an early retirement. They were offering that -- it was Continental Airlines, they were offering at the time. I was a sandwich. My sisters and I are sandwiched. So there was a little bit of taking care of the parents. My, my kids were younger, the whole thing. And you know what, you just went and had and did it. And I'd always thought about voice over work. And so I did a little bit of that, did some dog care too because it was easy enough. I'm like, Oh good now at least there's that cushion. And then I, I met Lau. We live one town apart and there was a different location of the studio. It's still in the same town. She was offering a Meisner class. Now when I first started voiceover work, now mind you, I don't have an acting background. And so I'd learned all the technical stuff. I had done a demo, but I wish I knew Lau then and learned what I learned then of what I know now. 'Cause it's just leaps and bounds. So I had gone in, done the master, then I really realized how, gosh, there is just a universe of things that I need to know. And so from then on I had joined the studio, and you know, like they say the rest is history. This is what, 14 years now, Lau, 13? Lau: A long time. Carol: The studio was about a year old. The studio was about a year old when I came. And so it's been a long time. And then -- Lau: How old was Aria, Carol, when you came in? Aria and Sage, how old were they? Carol: So you know what, 'cause she's the same age as my daughters Juliana -- they're friends. So I don't know. She was what? Six maybe? Lau: Six. Six. Carol: Something like that. Six, yeah. Lau: Wow. Carol: So that was kind of the same thing too. So my, I was still involved with school too. You know, you were doing everything with that. And my husband's freelance too. He's a strength coach in fitness. So we were both doing freelance things, but it worked out. You make it work. Like you said, you have your family support. You have your expectations. Anne: I was gonna say, so you had good family support. That's fantastic. I just know it makes it dif -- my husband has a corporate job and I left my corporate job to go into my own business. And so that was a different kind of support relationship. But that's fantastic. I mean your husband kind of already knew what it was like to work freelance. And so I think you had a good support system there because if you were going into just from the beginning trying to build up your business, it takes some time. I mean, right, there may not be work right away. And I think that that is the critical moments in those low points, right? When you're, did I get the gig? Am I good enough? I mean all those questions I think we ask ourselves in the beginning of our careers, is this really for me? I know that's what I asked myself all the time. Had, had I not had the support of my husband kind of saying, it's okay, I believe in you. Just keep plugging away at it, I think I might have quit early on. Carol: Yeah. And that's why I said to myself, let me just get something else on the side too. 'Cause I needed to know that I was doing that as well. But it was the opposite. I was the one with the corporate job before and everybody in my family, we were independent. They're like, oh, how could you go in? You know, wasn't nine to five. 'Cause it's the airlines and there's no set hours -- you know, the hours are everywhere, but you just knew that you wanna do it. And it's just, the timing was good with that as well. And so all these years. But one thing that Lau had said too, you know, you're right. You go to the audition, what do I do? There is a huge vacuum of like, oh yeah, you can learn how to do voiceover work. That's such a surface thing. There isn't a lot, except from people like you, people like Lau who say, look, when you get in, well before Covid, when you go to the recording studio and you're asked to do the audition or if you're at home and you're doing this, what is the etiquette? What do I do? What are my expectations? One of the first times -- 'cause I did on camera as well, and I was getting work with on camera more than voiceover. So I didn't do as much. I always used to say, I said, gee, I wonder how I did? I was craving feedback. And I'm like, you know, where's Simon Cowell when you need him ? I was like, if I don't, if I stink, I stink. I didn't have that. And now when I first got it with Lau, I'm kind of like, am, am I in the right business? Because I wasn't used to it, but I was craving it. And then I realized I really needed it. And you may not wanna hear it, but let me tell you something. You grow and you grow and you grow. And so you really need that. And I think there's a little bit of a, of a misstep or a failure out there right now. 'Cause you know, everybody's so internet, you go on YouTube , you know, Yeah. YouTube's great for a lot of things, but you know what? You really need that guide and the trust. The trust that someone's gonna say to you, no, don't submit that audition. Yeah. That is not a good audition. Anne: Lau's not gonna pull any punches. That I know. Carol: Exactly. Anne: That I know about her. I don't know her as long as you do, but I know she's not gonna pull any punches. Carol: . No. Anne: She's gonna be truthful and honest, which I think that's so important, you know, coming from a source within the industry that can give you reliable feedback. And your family members, they might be trying to say it's okay, you know, I thought it was great. That kind of support. That's a different kind of support, right? At least you know they're on your side and they're not saying, well we gotta pay the bills or I thought you were gonna make all this money. Or there's lots of different family support out there. . Carol: But you know Anne, it's funny you said with the support. So my husband would like, sometimes I'd have to have him just hold the camera. I'm like, just record. Or how does this sound? No, it sounds fine. Not my daughter though. She'd be like, what was that? You know? She's the same age as Aria, and they're kind of the same on that too. But thank God. But I wanted to also say it's also finding people that you can trust. See, I may not be having a good gig or I may not be having a whatever, but I'm trusting the people that are giving me the feedback because they're not doing it. They're not making it about them; they're making it about me. And that's the crucial point. Like they're not gonna say, like Lau's not gonna say, Oh you're just starting voiceover. Let me give you five lessons. And you don't do this either, Anne, but how many are out there where it's the snake oil, and it's just like, no, you are not ready. You need to do this. Your breathing's off or whatever the thing is. So the trust is crucial. Lau: I wanna jump in Carol. I wanna say something about Carol ,again talking about her as if she's not here. I love doing that. . So the thing about Carol that made her very unique, first of all, she was very recognizable to me because we had a similar background in the way in which we grew up, and we were at the similar stage of raising children as well. So we had a lot in common. So it went from a client-coach relationship fairly quickly into a friendship, which much of the time doesn't happen for many reasons. And I wanted that. I accepted it, I wanted it, I welcomed it. But what I noticed about her work ethic, which I had not seen in most people I had met, where she has a conservatory style work ethic. And even some in conservatory don't have it. That is, she works like just a horse. Like, and that's part of our background. We both come from a Jewish background, grandparents who had nothing, came from the old country with nothing in their pockets, didn't expect a thing, and worked their tootsies off. So she came in with this work ethic that she did not want anything. She did not deserve anything. And if she didn't earn it, she's not gonna take it. And she was that everything person that would do anything at any time for anyone. And I'm telling you, even to this day, I can count on one hand the people that I know like that. Because most are very self-centered, self-driven and think about themselves first. Carol is very selfless and comes from a high work ethic of let me put someone else before me and let me fix it and get it done. And if I don't know how to do it, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it for you and I don't care. And I'm telling you, that is priceless. It's worth more than any diamond that you could find in your lifetime because that's the person you trust, you love, but also the person who comes straight from the heart, and that's something we're missing in our world. I'll be honest with, we're missing a lot of that in our world. That's self-centered, lack of narcissistic kind of, let me think about my community around me and do as much as I can for them before I do for myself. Anne: Well, I think honestly that just creates the good karma. It just comes back around. And I think that that can be very much a part of your success in your career, in life. This VO BOSS podcast was part of a giving back. And I hope that, you know what I mean, it becomes that sort of a thing that it becomes support. It can become a Family, so to speak, for the community. And it can just be something that can just continue to give back. And I get so much from it myself, from people that I've met that have listened to the podcast, and I've gained some wonderful relationships and some wonderful members of my Family. So. Lau: And that's why we adore you, Anne, and we completely support you in this. We're all working right now together. We're not getting paid. It's a Saturday. It's -- Anne: I know. Lau: Because we love what we do. We love each other. Carol: I'm so excited -- Lau: We love what we do. Yeah. Carol: You were one of the bigger names I first heard about. I'm like, Anne Ganguzza! Anne: Aw you guys. Thank you. Lau: So great. We gotta get Dan in here. I wanna hear from Dan. Anne: Yes. Lau: Dan. Anne: Let's talk to Dan. Dan, tell us your Family story and then how you got involved with Lau. Dan: Well, this is interesting because if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be involved with Lau. When I first started, I contacted you, and you listened to my demo. And the biggest thing that I had was whether or not I was good enough, whether or not I had the right sound, whether or not I had any talent whatsoever. And especially considering, and I know this is taboo in many circles, so slap me around now -- but I produced my own demo. And you were shocked at the quality of that home produced demo. But you gave me so much positive feedback, it encouraged me to submit to a few agents, and Lau was one of the first ones I submitted. Anne: There you go. Wow. Dan: So if it wasn't for you, this is karma coming around as far as trial. Okay? Anne: I did not know this story. Aria: This is literally full circle. Dan: You're welcome. Anne: Wow. Yeah. Dan: And part of that apprehension, you know, I know what you and I had discussed during our consultations that we had, and you were very patient with me. Thank you very much. But it came into a fear on top of that, when you're first starting out, it's a money issue. Am I to the point where I consider anything I do an investment or an expense? And that's a big thing when you're an entrepreneur. Right? Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Dan: I was so petrified that everything was going to be an expense and not an investment, and I wasn't smart enough then. So being with Lau, one of the nice things is she gives me that kick in the ass when I need it. And I do, 'cause I was always the one giving the ass kickings in everything that I did. Everything. I ran construction crews, on the shop floor, airport security, Lau enforcement, I was a training officer to running large scale global projects for a defense contractor. So I was always the alpha male. When you worked for yourself and you're unsure, that alpha male gets diminished. I don't care who you are. Anne: What a good point. Yeah. Dan: It gets diminished. Anne: Yeah. Dan: So it's not necessarily validation, but you need a shoulder and a support system to help you. And sometimes we get stuck on high center, so when you get stuck on high center, you need somebody to push you over that ridge and get you the rest of the way. Right? And that's what it was. And you've talked about it on your podcast too, where diversification is huge, especially during the down times. Like right now I'm going through a downtime now for me. So I took it upon to get marketing coaching. So that's prompted me to open things up. Video and and audio production. That's something else I can offer when VO is lagging behind. So all those things I get encouragement from, from the entire VO community, but especially the ladies here, 'cause I know I can be open and honest with them. And I'm gonna get open and honest feedback. But they expect the same outta me as well. Anybody who's coached with me knows that I'm gonna tell you how it is. I won't sugar coat it, because there's no point -- to me that does more damage. Anne: Sure. I agree. Dan: But Lau also opened that door for me for coaching. She let me sit in, offer opinions on, on several things, and once you get me going, I don't shut up . So I think that was part of it too. But now I coach regularly for her. And I also continue to coach because it should be a cradle to grave learning experience. I should never stop learning until I'm dead. Anne: Yep. Lau: That's right. Dan: But the most rewarding thing about the coaching is watching somebody else flourish in what you have helped them do. Anne: Sure. Dan: And I don't know if you've read lately, but there's a lot of back and forth about some of the coaching posts, and one of the things is you have to be able to have that fulfillment. It can't just be the snake oil salesman where it's just I want, I want, I want. It has to be a total giving experience, completely because we lose money when we coach. Coaching gigs pay a lot less than VO gigs. Anne: Yes. this is true. Dan: So, it has to be a passion. So yeah. But being a part of the Family -- and that's why it was so great when Lau told me about today. I said, Oh, this is a unique opportunity because for me today it has come full circle. It really has in in that aspect of it as far as Family goes. So thank you all. Lau: And Dan is a really gifted coach. I mean like talk about having talent, like talent does play a part in our success. Everyone has different levels of talent. It's incredibly subjective. And it's in the ear or the eye of the beholder. But there's no question he's a very gifted person in this industry, both technically and emotionally. And we love having him with us. And I wanna share one moment, Anne, of the personalization that you and I have spoken about for the past weeks and how important it is in building the relationships with each other. And that is my son, who's a US Marine, is going into law enforcement. And I'm constantly trying to find mentors for him, which isn't always an easy thing. And early on when I first met Dan and I had learned about his background in law enforcement, I said, oh, I'll ask Dan, maybe he could meet with him on Zoom for a few minutes just to give him a little bit of wisdom. He was just right there. He had no problem doing it. He was excited to do it. He was looking forward to that. And you know, this is a teenage kid he doesn't even know. And when he did that, when he was connecting in that way, I said, this is a father, this is a grandfather, this is what we say in Yiddish -- a really good, full-hearted human being. And those are the people that we always wanna be connected with in our universe. Because those are the people, whether you're working or not working, whether you're coaching or not coaching, whether you're making a lot of money or not, they're the people that build you up in your heart and in your spirit. And that goes a long way, much farther than money oftentimes. It goes a long way into why we live this life and why we stay together and connect. And he's just one of those people . Anne: And when I talk about success in your business, we're not just talking monetary success. It's success all around. And I do believe that having that support, having that love, having that openness and overwhelming, what I've heard today is honesty and willing to give -- I think that is one of the most important characteristics we can have, and be for someone to fully support them in this industry, and help them reach success in so many ways. So BOSSes out there, if you are struggling right now, find your Family. We're here at VO BOSS to help, and I'm here to help. I can connect -- I know a few people, I know a few good people that are sitting right here that I can help connect and anything that I can do, and I know you guys, it has just been a wonderful conversation. I thank you so very much for everything that you guys have contributed to today's discussion. I think it's so valuable. I love this Family. I love this Family. All: We love you. We love you. Anne: Thank you. Lau: And I should say one more thing before we go, and that is, just remember everyone you help, everyone you work with, everyone you connect with in these ways, a little tiny piece of you lives inside of them and goes where they go. And so we think, how do we fix the world? How do we help people? How do we do it? Just do it one person at a time. Because that person is gonna hold you inside of them if you're meaningful to them. And boy, will that explode over the universe, and it's one person at a time. Anne: Yeah. And speaking of making an impact, guys, if you would like to contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that you never thought possible, take a look at 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. I'd love to give a huge shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. Here we are connecting like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much, everyone. Carol: Thanks, everyone. Aria: Thank you, adios. Lau: Thanks, Dan. Carol: Good week. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Self-sabotage. We are all guilty of it. You can either fight it or embrace it. If you're not sure what sabotaging behaviors look like, Anne & Lau are here to call you out for everything from minimizing your accomplishments to chronic procrastination. When you're a small business, entrepreneur or creative, your inner voice can often get in the way. The good news is once you recognize the signs of self-sabotage, you can catch yourself & change the outcome. It is easy to feel imposter syndrome. It is easy to push tasks off. But nothing about success comes easy. Having a plan in place to overcome self-sabotage is what will help you beat it, and BOSSES, Anne & Lau have the tips to get every BOSS there. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series, with my guest co-host Lau Lapides. Lau, hey, how are you today? Lau: I'm fabulous. Ready to rock. Anne: Ah, Lau. I love recording our sessions. The thing about it is, BOSSes out there, of course we don't do this live. A lot of times Lau and I are doing this on Saturday. So we are working beyond the five day work week. And for me, I'm kind of a self-professed workaholic. Now there's sometimes where I feel that's a good thing. And sometimes where maybe it's not such a good thing because I really need to get out and refresh and get my creative spirit back. But I thought it would be a good time to talk about growing your business work ethic and how some people -- I know there's a lot of, a lot of my students are like, I don't know what's going on. I'm not getting any work. So what can I do? It's almost like they sabotage themselves before they've even begun. So that whole self-sabotage thing, Lau, what do you think about that? Lau: It's a big deal. I'm telling you, it's a big deal. It's a culprit. And I see it in every other person I work with that's self-sabo -- we'll call it the SS, the self-sabotage. It's so common. And unfortunately, many a time, the person is innocent. They really don't know they're doing it. They're not aware. Anne: I agree. Lau: They need to have an outside source, help them identify like, what is going wrong? What's going off? What are they doing? And what are they not doing that's getting in the way of really achieving their goals. Anne: Sure. And I'll have to say that a majority of let's say students that come to me and say, I hate marketing, or how do I get work now? And so I'll be like, well, you know, you, your marketing has to be an effort, a concentrated, strategized effort by you. And I find that there's an awful lot of people that don't necessarily either know that they have to put as much effort into it as they might in the beginning to get some traction in this industry, or they hate it so much. And they're like, well, I'm gonna take another classroom. I'm gonna get another demo produced. But in the meantime, the other work that needs to get done to really grow their business kind of sits. And it's almost as if they wait and they're like, well, why isn't work coming to me? I've been taking all these classes. I've got my demos. What do I do? And so I think part of it is an education for here's what it takes to really grow your business. And I mentioned earlier that we are here on a Saturday. We're here on a Saturday. And unfortunately, you know, I work six days a week. The one thing that I love about this business is if I need to take time to do something on a Saturday, then we know we'll record at a different time. But the fact is is that I know what has to go into it in order to get results. And unfortunately, sometimes it's a whole lot more than I want to think that goes into this. Yeah. To be successful. There's a lot more work. Lau: And unfortunately, I think the mindset that you just brought up earlier about I'm in school and I'm training and I'm doing demos. Why aren't I getting work? Well ask yourself this question. Am I going to hire a dentist who's in school to pull my teeth? Am I gonna hire a carpenter who's in school to build my $2 million home? Anne: Right. Right. Lau: Not to say, I don't want a mistake for the listeners you shouldn't be taking classes or training. We're always in professional development. Literally. I'm in professional -- you're in professional. Anne: Yep. Always. Lau: But it does not take the place of the exposure energy that you have to put into the world from a marketing standpoint to let people know who you are, what you do, what you provide, and do that on a consistent basis. It's not either, or it's both simultaneously. Anne: People can't hire you if they don't know you exist, you can't just expect to sit in your studio and wait for work to come to you. When I got into it, in the beginning, I mean, I did not judge the fact that I would have to market as much as I did, and sometimes to really get a good traction and get some consistent clients coming back, it doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't happen in a week. It may take years, just being real. And I really truly believe that the people that stick it out -- there's so many people that get their demos, and they're beautiful demos, but then they don't realize everything else that's required. Lau: Yeah, what you have to do with it. Anne: Right. And then if somebody will mention to them, you know, you need be concentrated effort in marketing. They'll make maybe a halfhearted attempt, and they don't go far enough to realize how much it really does take. And in that respect, they are sabotaging themselves. They're sabotaging what they invested all that money into to get the coaching, the demos, and then all of a sudden to not get any work like they're expecting, that is a version of self-sabotage. If you are not willing to put in the effort as much effort as you possibly can to make this a success. And I don't wanna make people think that it's not something that just happens overnight. It's not easy. There is somewhat of a work ethic you have to have to put into it. You get what you put into it, right? You get out of it. What you put into it. Lau: I say that all the time, you just took the words outta my mouth. I mean, it really is your investment of your time, your energy, your mindset, your work, everything has to be in it. Another one, another very popular one is the time management piece of really not understanding what your schedule is. Like I said, let's go to a chart, go to a chart, make a chart, make a block chart. Do something that makes it very tangible what I do Monday through Sunday. Like make it very real, like go to your studio, go to your office space, go and make sure you work X amount of time in your day. Because that habit, that consistency, that commitment that you make is gonna help obstacles move out of the way. Because it's very easy to say, but I gotta be with my kids and I gotta go to the birthday party and I have to get this, and I have to -- there's tons of stuff that we can let get in the way and really justify it and say, well, I have to get this done. I have to do this. This has to be a top priority if this is going to be a career for you. Anne: Absolutely. I think there has to be a commitment, a commitment to all pieces of the business. And again, we talk about this so much. It's not just about the performance. It's not just about doing auditions. It's really about the entire, the entire business. And even if -- I feel like I've become a queen of outsourcing only because I keep wanting to grow my business, and I feel like I cannot grow my business until I can offload some of the tasks that I have to do on a day to day basis to other people. And right now, literally, I mean, I'm not bragging about that, but I have nine people. I have nine people that specialize in what they do, helping me with my business. And I outsource that so that I can do all the things that I wanna do in my business and grow. If I do not hire these people, I will not be able to grow because I physically don't have more of myself to give. So thankfully for this podcast, just as an example, the time that I spend with you in here in our booth recording, the episode is what I put into that. Everything else gets outsourced. I have an editor who edits the episodes afterwards. I have someone who transcribes it. I have two people that do social media. I have a person who works on video clips. So there's literally so many people that are involved in this. I would not be able to put this together or be successful if I did not put the effort into it. And I feel like there's so many people that say, well, I started a podcast, but I don't really have any listeners. So how do I grow the podcast. Again, it's one of those things where you sit down and you say, okay, this is what it's going to take to be successful. And you also have to not sabotage it by understanding that yes, there are these many pieces and components that it will take to be successful. You can't just exist on being a great voice actor. There has to be the other parts of the business that come into play. And so in terms of sabotaging, there's also, I'm gonna say, let's talk about people who are new to the industry and then are afraid to charge a fair amount for their services. Right? And they're like, well, I don't have the experience. So therefore I'll accept this job for $50. Or I'm only gonna charge $50 because I'm new. Let's talk about that. That is a form of self-sabotage. Lau: Yes. And you know what? I just wanna recap what you just said, which was brilliant that the negating of delegating, like the importance of delegating and being unafraid to delegate and being unafraid to pay for that delegation in saying that's an investment -- I'm not spending money. I'm investing in my business and I can't do it all. Like, yeah, we wanna be superheroes. And to some degree we are, but there's only so much time in the day we have to function and then to grow our businesses. So having that realization that if I wanna grow to the next level, I do need to delegate. I do need to have help. And I do -- Anne: I need help. Lau: I do need to pay for it. Anne: I need help! Lau: I need to pay for it. Anne: Oh my God. Such a wonderful point that you brought up, and I'm gonna say myself even in the beginning, I'm a control freak. Is that a surprise? No. Lau: No. And I'm a control freak. Anne: I'm a control freak. Lau: Surprise. Anne: You don't know what it took for me to hire somebody. Lau: Anne, you were in the syndrome that we were all in that's just like, oh, I'll just do it myself. Anne: Yes, Lau: No, I'll just do it myself. I'll do -- Anne: You want it right -- Lau: -- I'll do it myself. Anne: Yeah. If you want it done right, you do it yourself. Well, guess what? That is a form of self-sabotage as well. Right? Not being able to let go of control and outsource those things. Right? Lau: Oo I love that, I love that. Anne: Right? So that was a form of sabotage that I, myself early on in my career, when I was like, no, I can do it. I can make my own webpage. I can do this. It was, I used to work in technology. I can do it. And honestly, it was not serving me to be the control freak. And it took a lot. And I love the fact that you brought up the money. Money is a huge self-sabotage for a lot of people. Number one, not charging enough or not feeling that you're worthy of charging what somebody who's been in the industry for, you know, 15 years -- you are worthy of that. You've made an investment in your coaching and your demos. People want to pay you for your voice. You are worthy of what I charge, 'cause I've been in the business for 15 years. So you're worthy to charge what I charge. And also feeling worthy to make an investment and spend the money, that really is a form of self-sabotage as well, that whole money thing. Right? Oh, I didn't wanna invest. I don't have the money. Right?Well, so many people, I don't have the finances. What can I do to get a professional demo? I don't have the money. Well, okay. Here's what you gotta do. You've gotta strategize. Sit back, take a look at it. Understand that you're gonna have to invest in your coaching, in your demos in your business for you to get something out of your business. You're gonna have to invest. And that is, if you do not admit that or put into action, something that will maybe put savings away. Right? So that you can afford to get a professionally produced demo. Lau: Beautiful. Beautiful. Anne: No, I'm gonna do it myself. And again, that is a form of sabotage. I've just like rambled on. Lau -- Lau: I love it. This is like, listen, honey, this is therapy for both of us because the truth is we practice what we preach and we've experienced everything we talk about. Anne: Yeah. It's true. Lau: I'm not that godlike. I am a human being and I've experienced all of what Anne is talking about here. And that's how we learn. Okay. But if we don't learn, if we don't take the lesson -- as one of my business advisors to me said Lau, if you don't stop your resistance, I can't help you get to that place you wanna go. Anne: Oh yeah. Lau: And that's the humility. I don't know if you call it therapy or just revelation, whatever you call that, of saying, I'm not a god, I'm not a deity. I'm not, not anything other than a person in the world who is learning and working hard and reaching higher levels. But that doesn't mean that I am not resisting getting to the next level of things, whether it's -- oh, let's talk about fear. How about fear? Anne: Oh my God. Fear is so here. Fear of success too. I don't mean to say fear of being rejected. Fear of not being good enough, but fear of success. Lau: Fear, fear of failure. Anne: And fear of failure. All of that is a form of self-sabotage. And gosh, I think you just go on all day, but I know for me, I've always been that person. I'm like, I'm just gonna work, work, work, work. I mean, I've always had that kind of a, a work ethic. You know, if I work hard enough, it will come. And that's just my personality. Lau: Mine too. Anne: But some of that was also self-sabotage. If I didn't, I said, well, I could just do my own website or I can just, then all of a sudden it became like, well, I'm the only one that can do it right. And so again, that was, I want it done this way. And so nobody else will be able to do it, and giving up that control, which was a big self-sabotage for me. Lau: Big. Anne: Huge. Lau: It's a humility factor too because we all have to have a sense of pride and ego in what we do just to pull us through the really tough moments where we feel or perceive we're getting knocked down, or it's not that easy, or we're not making -- we have to have that sense of humility that says that's okay. That's part of your process. You're not gonna be above that. That's something you have to go through and you have to experience. And I get another one for you. How about procrastination? Anne: Oh my gosh. Yes. Yeah. Lau: I promise I'll get to it tomorrow. I will. I absolutely will. Yeah. Then I don't. Anne: And that is a form of self-sabotage. I'll tell you what. I am not immune to procrastination myself. Lau: No one is. Anne: In certain parts of my business, yeah, I'll procrastinate. Let's talk about taxes. If you wanna talk about procrastination, right? Lau: Oh yeah. Anne: I know for a fact that I would procrastinate until the very last minute. And then it became like, this stress-induced hell for my business because I, I hadn't experienced it. You know, when you're first running your own business, you have never done your taxes. You've never -- somebody else did that. You know? And so it was like, oh my God, I have a business now. Now what do I need to learn? And it just became overwhelming. So that also, the fact that it was overwhelming, it was scary, the fear, right, of not knowing what to do or how to do it. So then I procrastinated, which then was also sabotaging, right, my success. And then at the end I just was a, a stress ball of anxiety. And yeah. So I would never say to you BOSSes that, oh, I knew it all coming out of the gate. God no. I learn, I'm scared every single day I learn. I try not to sabotage myself by being scared and we fail a little bit. We learn, we try to just get up, move that, bump it up higher. Right? And just keep growing. Lau: Yep. How about this one, Anne? How about sitting with all the stress, the fear, the anxiety, the whatever, and not knowing how or not allowing yourself to release that? So whether that's going into play mode, whether that's actually just getting things done, whether that's getting your latte, whatever that is, establishing daily and weekly what I need to do to be in my mindset of success. And if I don't do it, then I'm sabotaging myself. Anne: Well, yeah. And that sabotage can take many forms, by the way. I'm just gonna say. Physical illness is one of them. If you're gonna sit there as like a stress ball and not relieve it or not try to do something right to rectify that or whatever that is, self-care, meditation, exercise, eating healthy, taking a few hours off, again, that stress can be sabotaging as well. So many things. Lau: It's like endless, right? Like we could go on forever, unfortunately in this category. It's so vast how much we -- and then of course you had mentioned it earlier that imposter syndrome, that feeling, that deep, deep, deep feeling. A lot of women suffer from this just in general of like, I really don't know if I'm worth everything that I'm doing in my life. And you know, Harvard did a lot of studies on that through the years 'cause Joan Rivers, the comedian, was the first one to uncover that publicly and found that ironically the people through the years who have suffered mostly from imposter syndrome being women who are high achievers. Anne: Oh how interesting. Yeah. That would make a whole lot of sense. Yeah. Imposter syndrome. I still get it. Do you know what I mean? I admit it, it still happens once in a while. I find that I try to just work it off. . Work off the imposter syndrome. Lau: Take a run. Anne: And again, if I'm not scared, right, I don't think I'm growing. It's just one of those things. Right? And yeah. Am I good enough? You know, can I do I think a lot of it, it's not so much, am I good enough at this point? But it's a different question I ask, is it okay? Am I ready to make this next move? Like, am I at the point where I should be making this next move? I think I question like, okay, what am I gonna do? How am I gonna grow even bigger? Right? That's my question every day. How do I grow even bigger? Is there a point where I'll be satisfied ever? And I don't think I ever will be. And maybe that's, maybe that's a form of it or not or -- Lau: Isn't that okay though? Like, isn't that a good driving force? Anne: Well, that's what I like to think. Lau: What are -- Anne: -- really goes through. Lau: Yeah. Like what keeps you going? What keeps you waking up every morning and doing what you do. You have to have a sense of that. You have to have some sense of doing that and saying, oh, I need more. I wanna build more. I wanna envision more. I wanna concoct more ideas. I think that, I think there's a fine line between a visionary, a pioneer, and someone who's like insane. Someone who just drives themselves crazy to the point where they break down and they can't function. I think that there's a very fine line that we have to find, you know, between those two and that fear factor, which can get in our way is also a driving factor too in what you're doing in your level of success as well. And how about this one? I got one more for you. Anne: Okay. Lau: How about ignoring, and sometimes intentionally ignoring, your celebrations, like really saying I'm not gonna celebrate anything. it's not necessary. It's not that good. I'm gonna move on to the next thing, and really ignoring your credits, your credentials, your accolades, as they happen? Your people that are -- Anne: That's a great one. Lau: -- being successful? Yeah. And so I'm really guilty of that. I'm like, oh, that's great. I love that. Okay. So what's next? And I'll have people stop me and go, you need to stop doing that because a lot of what you do, Lau, is for that moment and you're just passing it over. Anne: Right, right, right. Don't want to acknowledge -- Lau: -- pass it over. Anne: Right. Lau: And celebrate it, really actively celebrate it. You can't celebrate every single thing 'cause as a success, you've got a lot of things going on. Anne: Sure. Lau: But take a moment every day where you stop and you breathe, you take 10 or 15 minutes. You go -- Anne: I love it. Lau: Oh my gosh. That person that I directly worked with landed this gig. And I am just loving this moment. Anne: So here's my Panda planner. . And my Panda planner is a place, it's this hard copy, is a place where I can write down. I love that. You said that I can write down accomplishments and I got this beautiful one, the BOSS lady right here in my studio. Right? Lau: That's gorgeous actually on -- that looks beautiful. That's from your east coast sister. Anne: Thank you. Thank you, Lau. This beautiful, beautiful piece is from Lau. And I have a journal where I can write down my accomplishments. Because I remember I did a study like way back when I first got into the voiceover industry, and I, well, I was a scrapbooker. Okay. And as a scrapbooker I said, why don't I document my year of VO? And so I had pictures of like meetups I had been to and all of that stuff. And, and I had documented all of the jobs that I auditioned for and then the ones that I had booked, and I made a little scrapbook out of it. But in that scrapbook also was accomplishments. And I wrote the accomplishments down as they happened throughout the year. I realized that once I started writing them down, I was like, wow, I have come so far. And it was a wonderful benchmark, and it was a wonderful, like motivator for me to say, wow, I have really grown. And I have really improved and I'm proud of myself. And it motivated me to want to grow even more. So -- Lau: What a powerhouse, so smart. Anne: -- huge, huge fan of writing, writing down those accomplishments and reading them, writing them down to cement them and then read them. So. I love it. Lau: And how about speaking them? Anne: Yes. Lau: We're always afraid of like boasting and being too full of ourselves and being rude. But to your people that you have real relationships with, they wanna know what are you celebrating. What did you do? You're working so hard. They wanna know what you've accomplished. And to say, you know, three of my people today, and they got awards, and they got national gigs and they -- isn't that cool? I'm so excited for them. There's no shame in that game. I think we need to do that. We need to take the time to do that, to reward them, but also to reward ourselves -- Anne: Yeah. Lau: -- as well. Anne: And we need to acknowledge, I think acknowledge people celebrating their victories because I really believe that we can celebrate each other and really drive inspiration, motivation for all of us to do better. And again, there is a crowd out there that feels that that's not necessarily like awards. I mean, we could have a whole 'nother podcast on awards. Are awards necessary? And you know what? I tend to really love that they can help to validate us from somebody outside of ourselves. Because again, we can sabotage ourselves like the whole imposter syndrome, which is that fear that you're not good enough. It can really inhibit you from doing more from even continuing in the industry. And I feel that awards can be really good if you can look at them in the fact that we're celebrating other people's victories. We can even celebrate our own victories. And it's a way for validation outside of ourselves and outside of our friends, who I know people who will be like, I know, but you're just saying that because we're friends, and you really need that. You need that external validation to make you feel good. Again, like in the corporate world, we just wanna be loved. That's what I tell everybody, I just wanted to be loved when I worked in the corporate world. I wanted to be acknowledged. I wanted to be thanked for the work that I did and told that I did a good job. Lau: Yeah. I think since we're little kids, we want recognition. We want, you know, an award, a sticker, a rank or recognition, a pat on the back. Like as human beings -- Anne: I worked for those stickers in school. You know? Lau: I did too. Anne: Those like stars and the smileys. Lau: Yes. On the head. Remember they used to put it right on your forehead, the little goals? Remember that? Anne: I used to get -- Lau: They used to put it right on your head. Oh, oh my God. Anne: Award papers. I loved it. I loved it. I don't know. They don't do that. Lau: Oh my God. Anne: Is there paper anymore in schools? I don't. Lau: I don't know. I don't know. That's terrifying. I go to Apple. They go, what's paper? I don't know. Go on your -- did we talk about money at all? I honestly can't remember. Did we bring up the money factor? Anne: Well, I think we talked about the worth factor. Like, are you charging what you're worth? Lau: Okay. I got another angle. There's another angle of that. The other angle is, are you spending and investing what you need? Anne: Yes, the investment. Absolutely. Lau: Because I always find if it's not ignorance or just the fact that you're not educated, and that's fine, that's okay. We all have to educate, but once you're educated, and you wanna be cheap and not spend dime on your career and what you're doing, I just think of that as self-sabotage. Because there is no career that I can think of that you're not investing a lot of money in to get the future out of that, to get the return out of that. So. Anne: And that's not just investment in coaching, it's in, in all aspects of your business. And of course I would say yes, investing in your demos and in your coaching, I'm all for that, 'cause I'm coach. Right? And I produce demos, but also investing in those things like me, the queen of outsourcing, like you can really give up that control and don't be afraid to invest. And I, I will say, I said this multiple times, I put money away specifically into my business savings account. I have a business credit card. I have a business banking account, and I have a business savings account. So I was able to put money a little bit away each week or whatever it was, I put money away. And I finally got to the point where I had a substantial amount in savings. And boy did that help me to really grow. The fact that I didn't have the money in savings or I didn't concentrate on putting money in save -- doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be a ton of money. Just put a little bit of money away each day, each week, whatever it is. When you get to that little nest egg, that makes you feel secure and confident, it's gonna be an amazing thing because it's gonna allow you to invest in your business, to help you to grow so that you can spend the time getting those customers, making more money, growing your business. Lau: And a lot of people, Anne, they really don't realize once they do realize if they start to reach a level where they realize, oh wow, I have to spend money on this. And then I have to spend money on that. And they refuse to. They're resistant to do that. Anne: Yes, yes. Lau: That's the sabotage because the truth is -- Anne: I don't have the money or I can do it myself. And -- Lau: That's an investment that they have to have the belief system that that will come back to them. They have to have that leap of faith. That's where a little bit of your magic, your imagination has to be in there. You know what I mean? Like... Anne: Yes, thank you. Lau: I had someone say to me yesterday, like literally Lau, I need to know, I need you to tell me, when will it come back? When will it happen? I said, I can't tell you. I can't tell you when you'll meet the man of your dreams. I can't tell you if your kid is gonna love you or hate you. And I can't tell you if your car is gonna start this morning. Why would I be able to tell you when that's gonna come back to you? You have to take a leap of faith. Anne: Leap of faith. What a wonderful note to kind of end this podcast. Because I think when it comes down to that, like really what else do you have? Right? If you're based on fear and you're not feeling good enough for all of this self-sabotaging, you're not growing your business, take a leap of faith. My mother said to me once -- you know, I remember when I was, I had moved out of the house and was on my own living in a different state. And I was renting my first apartment and all on my own. And I said to my mom, I don't know, I've been working the budget and what if I don't have enough money? Or what if I, I, I don't know if I can do this. And she said, you know, honey, sometimes it all just works out. Just have a little bit of faith. And I took that to heart. It was, she said it so long ago. It was so simple. It's like something that everybody seems to say, have a little bit of faith, but yeah. Guys, BOSSes have a little bit of faith. I think that honestly, when you've lost all your other avenues of being brave, take a leap of faith and it will work out, but take a smart leap of faith, but definitely have to have that leap of faith. Lau: Yeah, yeah. You definitely do. And you have to just know the only thing that's constant is change, and you have to welcome change and like literally money change, but also change in the universe. And if you can welcome both in, you're gonna move that self sabotaging tactic out. You're you're just gonna be by the laws of attraction. You're gonna be much more successful. Anne: How wonderful. Well, thank you, Lau, as always for you had another amazing discussion. Lau: Yay. Anne: BOSSes, you guys, as individuals, you know, sometimes we don't know if we can make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how you can make a difference. Also big shout-out to ipDTL. You too can network and be BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. We love you, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Gratitude is not just a feeling. It's a practice, and it can change your life. This week, Anne & Lau discuss bringing gratitude into your life and biz. They dive into what gratitude can add to your life - a sense of purpose, community, & fulfillment. Take a moment to think about how grateful you are for your life, your family, and the people around you. What if you added just one more thing to that list? What if you took stock of what you're grateful for every day? A grateful mindset makes you easier to work with. It helps people feel good around you + attracts people & opportunities your way. So if you're ready to start crafting gratitude into your life, tune in! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited as always to have with me my special guest co-host Lau Lapides for Business superpowers. Woohoo! Lau: Hey! Anne: Hey Lau. Lau: Hey Anne. So great to be back. Anne: It is wonderful, wonderful to have you. So I was noticing, Lau, lately, it's the holiday season or the holiday season is upcoming. And I have been seeing a lot of talk about gratitude and thanks and people have 30 days of thanks. And I think it's a wonderful thing. I love being able to express gratitude. I think it's healthy for us personally, and I also think it's healthy professionally, but I also think we should be practicing gratitude year round . And I think that gratitude can be a wonderful springboard for growth for not only yourself personally, but for your business. What are your thoughts? Lau: I could not have said that any better. And actually you took the words right out of my head. Anne: I did? Lau: Yes. I was just working with -- Anne: Great minds, Lau. Lau: Yes. I was working with some clients and we were saying, you know, this particular talent, whatever, they should be thankful for having this particular opportunity because it's so interesting, it's so unique and it's so hard to get. And I thought, oh my goodness, it's so true; having gratitude, being thankful every single day, like writing it down, speaking it to someone. Not just thinking it. Right, Anne, 'cause when it's in our head, it's not always as real as when we're doing something actively. Right? Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: So if I'm thankful, I'm gonna show an action based on that. If I'm really grateful for something, I might tell someone that I'm grateful, and that action is so important to do every single day of the year. Anne: I consider it a springboard for so many good things that can happen from the start of just thinking of being grateful. It turns your mindset around from, let's say, complaining about something . Like for example, it's been cooler now in Southern California. I for one, love the cooler weather, but sometimes that means, well now I gotta turn the heat on. And so therefore now my heating bill is gonna go up. Whatever it is, I'm just gonna be thankful that I have a change of seasons here in California. And I don't have to turn my air conditioning on. So I think it's a mindset switch from the thinking part of it. And then I think like as you were saying, I think putting things into action, telling people about what you're grateful for or telling people, like I'm grateful, Lau, that you are here today with me doing this podcast. And I'm grateful for all of the episodes that we've done so far. And I'm grateful for all the ones that are going to be coming up because I think it's just done wonders for me personally to get to know you. And I have gratitude for you as a friend, but also as a professional partner. Really. Lau: Well, I am so grateful that you thought to even ask me to be on the program. In fact, I'm gonna go back before that. I'm grateful that we were on a panel together, right? The gods of the panel conferencing universe put us together. I'm grateful that we're assertive business women. And we're unashamed and not frightened to reach out to each other, even though we didn't know each other at all. And say, hey, let me celebrate you. Let me work with you and bada bing, bada boom, as they say, I mean, it's like, wow. All of a sudden project, you thought to invite me to your podcast, which has been an incredible experience. And it's just that journey. I'm thankful for the journey of going on the process. Anne: That is what is so cool about -- you're right. It's not just a one time thought of gratitude. It becomes this journey which can evolve into so much more. So one single thought of gratitude can evolve into much more. And that thought of, wow, we were on that panel together. Wow, this is great. This woman is amazing. Like I really like, let me reach out to her and let's see if we can form a partnership and see if we can work together in some way. We worked together. We now have this wonderful series of podcast episodes, and I have grown personally and professionally. So many opportunities have now opened up for our relationship that we've developed. Right? Opportunities to meet other casting directors, to meet other people, to meet wonderful VO family. And it makes me connect to my East Coast roots. I mean, there's just so many good things that have happened from the one thought of grateful in my brain. So I love the action where you can not only think about what you're grateful for, but put it down on paper. I love the whole people putting what they're grateful for on Facebook or on Instagram, whatever your social media platform of choice. I think if everybody could just put what they're grateful for, like every single day, wouldn't that just be a cool thing? Lau: That's a great action to do. It's what I call making sparks. If you can make sparks, then you can make fire. And making fire is really about -- they used to say in business, you know, I'm setting the world on fire. not in any negative way, but like I'm awakening territory that I want to inspire new relationships, new fertile grounds for business, for not only business, but also for friendships, also for social relationships. Like you have to have that action inside of you so that you can do the spark, so that you can catch fire a little. You can't always rely on other people to do that for you. Right? Anne: Yeah. Lau: And that one little spark, that one little thing you make could do a whole lifetime, could open up a whole lifetime of a trajectory of business and friendship and joy and health for you. And you go, oh my gosh, if I hadn't done that, all of this other stuff would not have happened. Anne: I just saw that happen with a client that I had worked with, and I had the opportunity while I was at a conference to meet in person with them. And I remember -- you wouldn't think that I'm a nervous type , but sometimes, right, especially if this client -- this client was very well known, CEO, president of the company, that kind of thing. So when it comes time for me to just meet face to face for the first time, I'm a little bit like, oh my goodness. You know, I've done some work and I've had some association, but not direct all the time. Lau: Yeah, yeah. Anne: And meeting this person and expressing my gratitude, being able to work with them and how much I enjoyed it, how much I admired and respected their work really led to this relationship where I felt great about it. But not only that, but I just got another invitation to do some more work for this client. So I believe that it truly led to other work. And it doesn't mean -- now look, I think there's so many things that go into creating a good relationship with a client. It's not always about, oh, Anne Ganguzza has the best voice. Right? It really becomes, oh, she's got an amazing voice. But also she is wonderful to work with, she's easy to work with, she's reliable. And so those things all come into play. And when you're paying gratitude or respect to your clients, I truly believe that it will come back to you like threefold. Lau: That's exactly it. And there's a, you know, doing the checkbox is like, it just makes their life so easy then you are a great package. You do know what you're doing, you're well prepped, you're professional. They don't have to worry about the trust factor. But there's so much more in all of that. There's almost like a mystique, like a mysticism of how people come together, how gigs get done, how process takes place. There's -- is something very mystical about that. You can't always explain every single step. Like how were we in particular invited to that panel? How did we notice each other and then reach out to each other? I don't know. There's kind of like an unspoken truth that we may not know what that is and it's okay to not know. But then is that makes it exciting a little bit. It's not completely predictable. All we know is we have the ability to assert ourselves and to put our best foot forward. That's like all we know. And then if it doesn't work out, we're eloquent about saying, okay, it's not gonna work out now. Hopefully in the future it'll work out. But being the fire starter, making that spark is really important and not waiting for someone else to do it. Anne: You know what else is interesting? And this is making me think now in terms of, I said, well, it's not always about your voice. Right? It could be the whole package. I truly believe, especially in these times where we want authenticity, we want believability. I truly believe that you, that you bring to the party, that unique part of you, if gratitude is a part of that, I think it's an attraction, right, for other people. And so, even though you might be reading somebody else's words from a script, that gratitude is part of your personal makeup. And that personal makeup is part of that you that you're bringing to the party. And I believe that the positivity, I think there's a lot of positivity around gratitude, that comes with just you being authentic and then bringing that authentic you to the script -- even if it's like behind, let's say, a character that's an evil villain or whatnot, there's still a part of you that you're bringing to it that cares that you're entertaining or cares that you're connecting. And I think that, like you said, that kind of part that you can't touch or feel it, that part is an important part of your voice and the package that you bring to the table. So I think that gratitude is one of those personality traits or one of those emotions that I think can really come out and affect your physical voice as well. Lau: No question. I think it affects everything, not just your mindset and your voice. It affects your body and how you move in space and how you make people feel. I always feel like, whether you're at home in your home studio, or whether you're at an office or going to someone else's rehearsal place or place of business, how do you make people feel at home? How do you host them in your space? And I, I always feel like if I come from a place of acceptance and gratitude, and thankfulness, and joy, and appreciation, they feel that. There's a pathos in that, there's an emotional pathos that they just pick up immediately that is not a self-centered, narcissistic kind of overly focused on myself kind of thing. But it's like, how are you feeling? Are you warm in this place? Are you comfortable? Do you have what you need? What have you. That I always feel comes out of knowing what to be grateful for. I don't think it's enough just to be grateful. I have to be specific. Just like my vocal delivery. I have to be specific on what am I thankful for? What am I grateful for? Let me write that down. Let me talk that to someone. Let me tell them. I mean, I don't know, it's kind of spiritual, isn't it? If I tell you, like you just told me, I'm so thankful for you, Anne, to have you as my new friend, my colleague, someone who's an inspiration in my life. Oh, I just got goosebumps. My eyes got a little watery on that because -- Anne: Me too. Lau: -- it's emotional. It kicks up those muscles in you as an actor that go right into your muscles that are holding emotion, right? You see my eyes got a little watery when I said that. I'm not upset or sad. Anne: So it can make you a better actor. Look at that. I love that. I love that. Right? Some of the good things that come from feeling that emotion, and so much more moving forward energy than, let's just say, there's a lot of complaining going on in some of these social media circles. Right? And I feel like it's one thing to, if you have something that you're unhappy about, maybe, I don't know, either getting it out, writing it down, whatever it is. But I think a constant rehashing and circling and it's like some ball of negative energy. I don't think that that's necessarily healthy. So I think that the more positive things that you can spin and then encircle yourself with and discuss and tell and talk with and -- I think the more forward we can move. I'm always about moving forward and not like staying in a pool of negativity. . Lau: I agree. I agree. Anne: Right? Lau: And you know, now that I think about it, you know, I'm in the commercial market as an agent, I'm thinking that probably 80'% to 90% of the copy that we see for talent is copy that you would describe as warm, friendly, healing, paternal or maternal, inclusive -- all these terms that you think, okay, I'm an actor. How do I get that out? How do I do it on the spot? How about this, one tactic is to do exactly what we're saying and be grateful. Write down what you're thankful for. Really pay attention to it in detail, emotionalize it and feel it. So you can call upon that when you're doing that next healthcare read. You can call upon that when you're doing that next parental read to say, wow, okay, I remember, I can recall -- actors recall. I can recall what that actually feels like as me a person. Then I can put that into my read. And now it becomes much more authentic and realistic to me as a person. 'Cause that conversational thing throws us all the time. Anne: It does. Lau: What is conversational, you know? Anne: And you know what's so interesting? So I'm gonna see that commercial and I'm gonna -- corporate copy, which honestly, if you think about it, it's the same end goal, right? Commercial, selling a product or selling a brand, same thing with corporate copy. Even though you might be delivering information like, here's our corporate governance, or this is who we are as a company, or this is a product that we're talking about as a company -- it's just a longer format, but still the same end result, right? Companies want you to be on board with their product and with their brand so that ultimately you'll buy from them. But I always like to go all the way back and say, look, when I worked in the corporate world, I remember, and I think I mentioned this to you, I was employee number 246 , um, at the company that I worked with out of school. And I loved the product, I loved the company, I loved what we did. I was passionate about it. I felt like we were helping people. I want everybody that's voicing a piece of commercial copy or corporate copy or whatever it is that has a product to think about that company. Ultimately, I wanna look at the good and say that, well, whoever formed this company, let's say, I'm speaking on behalf of, I don't know, Hope Hospital or whoever that is, there was a good inherent in the formation of that company or that product because they wanted that product to help someone. And that's what I like to think in terms of when I'm going into a piece of copy that there's always a good for this product that's going to help people. And when I think that way, that brings out that positive, that gratefulness, that thankfulness, and that becomes the real and the authentic part of me voicing copy from that. So it goes beyond just, well, let's say I remember that feeling from being grateful here, but here, let's put ourselves in the scene. Let's be an employee of the company, and let's be grateful that we are offering something that can help others to do their jobs better, to be faster, whatever. Lau: And that's that deep dive empathy factor that we're all kind of going for. We may not use it all the time, but we wanna have access to that when we need to have access to that. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: And yes, it's not enough to say, oh, I understand it intellectually. I get it. I'm thankful intellectually that's the beginning. But I think the deeper dive is I can feel that I can live that with you. I can go through the hardship of it. I can understand the problem solving, the need filling, the care taking of that. I can get there and because I can get there, there is that true authenticity to that kind of read, whatever that read is, I would venture to say you could put that into anything, whether it was corporate or audio book -- Anne: Character. Lau: -- eLearning, right, character. There's gotta be a little nugget of something that, you know, what reminds me of Anne? Remember in all the famous sitcoms, like all of our favorite sitcoms from the past, they always yak-yak-yak-yak-yak. They had their studio laugh traps. Funny, funny, funny, funny. And then there was this one moment would land the entire episode where everyone would get quiet in the studio and you'd find yourself crying and you're like, why am I crying? It's like The Brady Bunch. Why we crying? It's like MASH. Why? Why did I feel that? Because they knew that. The writers were so smart, they knew how to take humor. And all of a sudden landed in such a way where we started to feel like, ooh, this is a real person and this is a real problem that we have to solve. And we're using humor to solve it in this case. And in the case of a sitcom, well, we're using all different kinds of tactics to solve our client's problems. Not just humor. We're using a lot of tactics. But the baseline is I have to land it. I have to feel what you feel. I have to move through it with you and I have to solve it. Anne: That's so interesting. And you said a word that I use a lot. And that's empathy. So empathy, when you are connecting with the copy and you are speaking to the person, right? You're speaking to a person who you wanna empathize with. What are their pains? What are their joys? What are their frustrations? And I think that there's so many emotions that play into the grateful, thankful part of it that we tap into. And I think what came first, the chicken or the egg? What came first? Empathy or thankful like . Do you know what I mean? I think they all can lead into a whole series of emotions. I think you can be thankful for just about everything in your life. I mean, I've always been that person that has tried to take what most people would consider a negative event and turn it into something that I'm grateful and thankful for. And one of those, and I've said it multiple times and I'll delve a little bit into it, is my cancer diagnosis. Right? I always, always had a passion for living and being grateful, but actually being diagnosed with cancer and then facing my mortality really made me a billion times more grateful for everything that I had and everything that I have now. And it's funny because I'm continually reminded in a way, because sometimes they say your journey is continual. Right? I still go to the doctor, I still get checked up, and every time I go to get checked up, you don't think I check, what am I grateful for? What am I thankful for? I'm thankful that I got through another test. I'm thankful that so many things. And in a way that's a blessing for me . And I can only see it as that because it helps me to always remind myself of what is wonderful in my life. What am I grateful for? What am I thankful for? And being in the booth, doing what I love, of course I was always thankful for it. But boy, am I thankful for it now because it's something that I was able to do literally two weeks after a major operation, I was be able to get in my booth and do something that I loved, which I was thankful for, thankful that I was able to do that and thankful that I was still there to do it. Lau: And you are not just a survivor now you're a thriver. Anne: Yes, yes. Lau: Right? Because you're really utilizing this journey as one big tool of knowledge to understand how do I unlock, how do I unlock that chest of deep emotion? Like deep feeling, deep empathy. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: And that to me is like, that's the ultimate truth. And even for the listeners who say, oh, I can't do any of this, I don't get the, any of this. Even from your business standpoint, just from your business standpoint, it allows you to come outside of yourself so you're not just self reflecting all the time. Anne: Right. Lau: And open up the gestalt of your world. Really just see the full map of what's around you when you have that moment of thankfulness. It just makes you remember that, oh my gosh, I have a mother, or I have a a husband, or I have a child, or I have a dog that I love so much. What would I do? What would I do without that dog? Anne: And that all contributes to not only your personal, but even your professional because of what we do, which is so I think part of our person, it's so personal, and it's so gauged on how we can be real and authentic. And that is, that's a privilege to be able to get paid for that. You know, to be able to get paid, you know, as an actor, right? To get paid for being able to bring those emotions to life and feel and express. And I think when it comes to being thankful and grateful that the action, again, I love the action, write it down what it is that we're thankful for. But also let's express it. Let's take it one step further, right? So how can BOSSes benefit from being thankful and grateful? Well, I'm gonna say outside of your own personal growth and your business growth, extend that to your clients, right? Extend your gratefulness to your clients to really secure -- I mean Lau, you and I have talked about securing relationships and nurturing relationships. I'll tell you that's one thing that will nurture your relationship with your clients, express to your gratefulness, to your clients. And don't just do it once a year, you know, at the holidays or twice a year. At any given point, just a simple note. It makes you feel good too, right? It does. But email or you, you pick up that phone and you're just like, Thank you. I am so thankful for the opportunity to work with you. I really appreciate it. And I think that that just extends goodwill. And it can help you grow your business. Lau: Anne, I had a new colleague, a co-producer in New York that I'm working with now, who said to me when we, not when we very first met, but within the first few months, he had come to one of my events, and he wrote back to me, I'll never forget this, he wrote back to me, he said, I'm so grateful to be a part of your life and your studio family. Thank you for including me in that. Just the way he said that, and that was on email, just the way he said that. I kept it. And I never forgot. I just thought that was the sweetest, kindest, most beautiful moment. As someone that I didn't know really a stranger, at all, who felt like he was so included. And I knew in that moment, you know in that moment when someone says that to you, Anne, not only are you doing your job, but you're also being a really progressive and thoughtful human being. Anne: Mm. Yes. Lau: You know what I mean? Anne: I love that. Mm-hmm. Lau: 'Cause it can't just be about business, right? It's gotta be about human, human people and what we're doing and giving to one another. That's really what it is. No matter what holiday you celebrate, if you don't celebrate any holidays at all, every day is kind of a holiday. Remember Madonna, Holiday, celebrate. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: Every day should be a little bit of a holiday for you to celebrate life and what life is offering to you. Anne: Mm-Hmm. I totally agree. And I think extending that gratefulness and that thankfulness to your clients, I think that is the epitome of maybe not every single day, but absolutely that email. And I think also because we are so isolated in our studios -- I keep going back to like when I was in the corporate world and I would go into the office every day, and I would be surrounded by people or you know, when I first started in voiceover and I would go to an audition, I would be in a room full of people who are auditioning. I mean, it's kind of like being at the water cooler. And I feel like the gratefulness and thankfulness needs to be even more so because we are so isolated these days from the pandemic -- well now, we're getting more back into face to face where I think that makes an even more meaningful contribution when you're thankful and grateful and you're there. 'Cause you can see it, you can feel it. But if we are in our studios a lot of the time, I think we need to go an extra mile to showcase thankfulness and gratefulness to our clients. Because it's not so palpable for not like with them physically. Lau: Mm-Hmm. And on top of that, I mean, I think we would be off track if we didn't mention that every day you're gonna get something that gets boomerang; it's going be thrown in your path, a little obstacle, a little problem, a little something that doesn't go well. Be thankful for that. Anne: Yes. Lau: Be thankful because those are opportunities for you to learn and grow and feel hardship and feel fear and feel insecurity because that's what your client is feeling. That's what your colleagues are feeling. That's what people around you are feeling like -- Anne: That brings the empathy. Lau: -- understand that. Yeah. I wanna be able to live that a little, not all day long, but I wanna be able to be in that and understand it so that I don't think, oh, everything's gonna be smooth sail. Everything's gonna be easy going. No, I have to be thankful for the moments that teach me things that I didn't know, that I wasn't willing to look at or learn and now I see it. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. And being grateful for those moments, the moments when they're not all shining and rosy just again turns that into a positive moment. And, and of course positivity is a springboard for so many wonderful things. So, I love this conversation. I talk about gratefulness like every year right around this time because everybody's grateful and I talk about it, but I love the way that we deep dove into gratefulness and thankfulness and how it can positively affect you BOSSes out there by practicing it every single day. So Lau, thank you so much. Really. Yeah. I am grateful for this conversation. I loved it. Loved it. Lau: I'm grateful for you and how we unpacked this today. Anne: Right? Lau: It was really quite amazing. So thank you for that. And I'm grateful that this has recorded so that we can reflect on it over and over again. Anne: Well yes. Absolutely. So I am going to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and show gratefulness and thankfulness with other BOSSes and clients and colleagues. Find out more at ipDTL.com. And also guys, if you want to give back and have a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference and give back to the communities that give to you, visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. You guys, have an amazing week. We are grateful for you. We love you and we'll see you next week. Take care. Lau: Take care. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Everyone's got Imposter Syndrome. But it doesn't mean you're a fraud. In this episode, Anne & Lau dive into why we are so attached to the sound of our voice and how fixating on that can be a barrier to success. Voice is an essential part of how we are perceived, which affects our personal and professional lives. When you listen to yourself critically, it's easy to get lost in technical details. Your voice is your greatest tool, so stop doubting it. It is an instrument and the vehicle for your craft. So Bosses, love your voice. Embrace it. And if you still need some extra pointers to overcome your inner critic and use your voice to the fullest, listen up… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and our business superpower series. I'm Anne Ganguzza, your host, and I'm excited to welcome back to the show Lau Lapides. Lau, hello. Lau: Hello. Hello. Glad to be back as always. Anne: How's your week been, Lau? Lau: Amazing. Busy, amazing, wonderful. Went on vacation. We were talking about this earlier. Went on vacation up to the Berkshires 'cause I'm in New England. Anne: Of course. Lovely. Lau: It was a workcation. Anne: Ah. Lau: Right? I never leave. I never really leave work. Anne: Yes. I try to, but you're right. I don't leave either. Although I will say that I do notify my clients ahead of time that I'm going to be on vacation and may not be as responsive, so we have that. But then there are other opportunities that I make sure that I have my travel gear set and ready to go, so. Lau: Well, you're much better than I am. I don't let anyone know. I pretend as if I'm like still -- Anne: As if you're still working? Lau: -- in my studio. And then I'm in some bathroom somewhere in Lennox, Mass during intermission turning my phone on going, yeah. Okay. So you've got a call back and you've gotta get there, and like I have to turn my phone off. I don't know. I'm not getting reception. I'll talk to you in like an hour and a half. Anne: Oh my God. I love it. Lau: . Anne: So funny. Lau: But you know what? It's our lifestyle businesses, right? Anne: It is. Lau: BOSSes know that's the lifestyle that we live. It's not just a nine to five. It's really what we love, what we do, all the time. Anne: Yeah, yeah. As long as there's a balance. Now speaking of superpowers, I wanted to bring up something this week because as you know, I coach my students, and frequently, and I know that you also are dealing with multiple students as well and people on your roster -- I wanna know if you get this as much as I do. I don't like my voice. I just don't like my voice. And I thought to myself, you know, that's so common actually. I hear that a lot from my students, especially my female students actually that they don't like their voice. And I thought it would be a really interesting discussion to talk about the psychology behind that. And why do you think it is that people don't like their voice? Lau: Gosh, I don't think your podcast is even close to long enough to even answer that. I mean, it could take centuries to answer that. I don't know. I think there's a lot of reasons why. I think first that always comes to my mind is that thing of which got really hot, really, really hot, I'd say in the last couple years, the imposter syndrome became hot and known. It was this unknown thing that really women suffered from, primarily women suffered from. And it was, I think the first one that brought it, believe it or not, that brought it out was Joan Rivers, the comedian Joan Rivers put it in her routine. And then Harvard university said, wait a second. Is that a real thing? Let's do studies on it. And then they spent 10 or 15 years doing studies on people who get hit with it. Right? Anne: Well, I think it's absolutely always been a real thing. It just hasn't been talked about, right? Lau: Yes. Oh, very real. Anne: I'm the first person to admit that imposter syndrome hits me still every day. And I always try to turn it around into a good thing where if you have imposter syndrome, it's motivating you to continually grow and excel. But this thing about voices, I'm gonna say, myself, I even went through it myself so that I can identify when a student comes to me and says, ugh, I just don't like my voice. But I always say, remember in the first place, a lot of times, the reason people get into this industry is because someone has said to them that they have a nice voice and that maybe they should consider voiceover as a career. And I've had people that told me that in the beginning, but after I started studying and started really pursuing it as a career and getting work and then falling into the, oh my gosh, am I ever gonna get hired, that kind of a confidence -- oh my God, I must not be good enough, and that imposter syndrome that really kind of hit me, I started to really criticize my voice. And I used to listen to my voice and say, what doesn't sound -- I wanna sound like this person. I want that rasp. My voice does not have a rasp. It just doesn't. And no matter how hard I try to physically create a rasp, it's difficult and it could hurt my vocal cords. So I gave up doing that, but I gave up kind of coveting other people's voices and really started to understand that my voice needed to be embraced, number one, because how would I ever sell my voice if I couldn't embrace it? And the other thing is I think that maybe people spend too much time listening to the sound of their voice, and that I feel might be the biggest barrier to acceptance because, should we really be listening to our voices in terms of technically, how does it sound? I think really as voice actors, right, Lau, you know what I'm gonna say? Right? As actors, we need to be acting and the concentration should not be on how we sound. Lau: That's right. And I know when I record myself, I can't appreciate hearing myself as I'm recording. I oftentimes will not even wear the cans. I won't even wear the headphones because I want to concentrate on the true connection of what I'm doing here. And if I'm hearing myself -- and I was never an air prompter person anyway, so I, I was never in that realm of having to be proficient at hearing myself as I'm delivering language. So I always deliver with headphones off, and I, I suggest to clients, at least for the beginning phase, don't put 'em on because I want you to make an authentic connection in what you're saying and who you're saying it to, who you're speaking to. And that's, you know, acting basics, right? 101. Anne: Sure. Sure. Lau: But I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of, Anne, talking about I'm not good enough. I won't be accepted. I'm not reaching it. Anne: I don't sound good enough. There's always that. Lau: I think that that's so primal. Anne: Does my voice have what it takes to deliver? No, it's not about your voice. It's about you. Lau: It's about, you. Anne: It's about you. You know what I mean? It's about you and your personality and what it brings to that voice. And I'm, I'm just gonna say about the headphones. Now, when I first began, I was in a construction zone, and I had to wear headphones in my booth to make sure that there were no low vibratory sounds that were coming through. So I totally understand what you're saying about taking the headphones off. But I feel that in all honesty, right, if we have the headphones off, we can still sometimes listen to ourselves. You know what I mean? We're still like, these are amplifying everything that we're saying. So for headphones I'm of the nature that yes, whatever works for people to not be distracted by their own sound. I think that if you're a true actor, you can act with headphones on and with headphones off, so. Lau: Of course, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's really how you train. Anne: It's helpful. Lau: Yeah. How you train yourself, what technique you build, that's repeatable for you that doesn't distract you away from what you're trying to do. And I always say to a client, I say it's ridiculous in the sense that if you went to Kraft macaroni, or you went to Nike shoes or you went to Toyota, would they honestly be thinking -- they meaning the advertising company, the people who are creating and producing scripts -- would they honestly be thinking right now as I deliver this to you, this sucks? Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: They may talk about it at their wine party, up in Aspen over the weekend that they don't like the product, but in the moment of pitching it, in the moment of selling it in the moment of connecting to the end user, it is the best thing in the world. Not only is it the best, you can't live without it. You really can't. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: And there's some sort of disconnect between the product, that physical inanimate object, that and us, our identity, our physical person, our vocal sound. There's a disconnect that we then become part of that product. We become part of that branding. And so for us to say, I don't know if I'm doing this well, I don't know if I'm good enough. I don't know if, what is in essence saying the product isn't good enough. Anne: Isn't good enough. Lau: The product is subpar, and that's a danger zone for us. We have to be very careful of that because we sell value. We don't wanna sell devalue. We don't wanna devalue our value, and whatever you do privately is something else. Anne: Sure. No, I love how you brought it to the product. Because in reality, remember we are the voice of the product. We are the voice of the company. And no matter what you're doing, even if you're doing, I'm just saying, if you're doing corporate narration, if you're doing explainers, again, you're still working with a product. And if you're not doing that, let's say if you're doing anything else, if you're teaching, right, you're teaching more than likely, right, you become a teacher. And you are teaching either about some product or maybe a concept. And so again, you don't wanna devalue the content that you are speaking of. Lau: Exactly. Anne: And that's such a wonderful example that you brought up. I'm so glad you said that. Lau: Thank you. And you it's interesting, Anne, it seems to be unique to us and our profession, us meaning talent. It seems to be unique quality that we see in many, many people that we don't see quite as much in other industries and other professions. It would be like, ask yourself this, if you do this, if you do this, ask yourself this. Would you appreciate going to a doctor's office? And the doctor comes in and says, I don't know if I know how to listen to your heart. I mean, I, I, I don't know if I'm gonna do it well enough. I mean, what do you think? And you'd be freaked out. You'd go running outta that office. You'd go, I don't want this woman or guy touching me. I -- Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: Right? If you went to a dentist, and you had to have your tooth drill, like, I don't know if I can, I don't know if you'll like what I do. I'm not sure. I mean, it sounds funny to us, right? Anne: I might make you hurt . Lau: Right? Anne: But you're right. It's so true. Lau: And it doesn't mean either that they're qualified, and it doesn't mean either they're the best at what they do. It just means it is innate within their training, within their experience, within their identity, that this is what they do. This is the product they offer, the value they offer. You're gonna pay for that service and it's as simple as that. Hopefully you won't complain about it. . Right? Anne: Absolutely. Lau: But it's so unique unto us is to take it so personalized and to say, but do you approve of me, but do you like me? So going back to your original question a half an hour ago, like what is the psychology of this whole thing? I think it does really start with us as a human being, as a person. Like where is our self-esteem? Where is our level of confidence? Do we feel good in our own skin? Do we feel ashamed or humiliated in honest connection? I mean, ask yourself these questions as a human being in the world and then try to work with it. If the answer is yes, I have a struggle with this, I have a problem with this, then work with it. Don't work against it. Don't shove it under the rug because it's gonna come out out in your next audition. It's gonna come out in your next reach out. Anne: And I think, honestly, it's again, I love how you just brought it down to that level, but it's also remember you're honoring the copy. The copy has been crafted by someone who has put a lot of thought into it, for the most part we think, right? And that there is a message that needs to be delivered. And you need to communicate that message effectively. Now Lau, when we talk back and forth, I'm certainly not thinking to myself, do I sound okay when I talk to Lau? Lau: It's funny to think that, isn't it? Anne: Right? Does my voice sound -- maybe I should talk to Lau like this. And no, because that just, it's not bringing ourselves. It's not bringing who we are, and you know, we say it over and over again. Bring yourself to the party. Right? Well, your voice and yourself, your voice is not mutually exclusive from yourself. The way you're treating it, if you're listening to it saying it does not sound good enough, then that's what you are essentially doing. You are splitting apart the voice from who you are. And I think ultimately, yeah, you have to be the one that can bring yourself to the party. When we connect as human beings, that's what I care about. I don't care, Lau, when you talk to me, what you sound like, I care about what you're saying to me and what it means to me. And I think by trying to just bring it back onto ourselves where most people might think it's an insecurity thing -- in reality, when you think too much about how you sound, it becomes more of a vanity thing or an egotistical thing, where you're not thinking about the client. You're not thinking about the product or the copy that you should be honoring. You are thinking more about what you sound like on top of that copy. And that's not where your voice needs to be. Your voice needs to be in the act, in the action of delivering that copy to the best of your ability and the most effectively on behalf of that client. Lau: I mean, at the end of the day, it's all about the messaging. We use the fancy schmancy term story and storytelling, but storytelling is about the messenger. What message is being delivered? And what is that stake here? What is the value to the audience of that message? Is it gonna fix their life, fix their health? You know, help them find a pet, and, and help them educate their child, or have a better quality health regimen? It's always something in there for the end user that will potentially better their life. Now I'm not saying that that is, that's not a truism. It doesn't actually do it all the time. I'm saying that that's the claim that is being made in the message. And if you lose the message, you lose the claim. And that is a problem. That can be a real problem. Anne: You say the word value, and that is so important. The value to the client. It's not your value. It's the value that you are bringing to the client. So it goes from a place of how can I help you, the client, not how can I sound beautiful when I say these words? It's how can I help you? And the place has to come from within you and not from just the lips and outward because sometimes when we're listening to what we sound like, that's all we can concentrate on. Lau: Exactly. Anne: And there's no story, there's no message. There's no emotion. There's no point of view. Lau: Exactly. And you brought up a great point there. You know, a number of the roles -- I call it roles, theatrical roles -- but a number of the, the voicing parts that we see in scripts now are not always clean, what we call clean or polished. Sometimes they're dirty sounding. Sometimes they're heavy sounding. Sometimes they're sad. There's a lot of doleful scripts. We see a lot of heavily poetic and weighted scripts about things that are thoughtful or lugubrious, or, you know, you've gotta hit a lot of different kinds of feelings and tones now in scripts that are not always pretty. They're not always perfect. And they're not always lovely sounding. Sometimes they're gritty and gravely and that kind of thing. So that to me reflects life as well. We don't always sound good in life. We don't always -- Anne: Imperfect. Lau: -- say the right thing. Yeah. We're not always PC or whatever. We're just not always right. So the idea of wanting to fix myself all the time, I need to be right. I can't be wrong. Did I get it right, is wrong because there is no right. It's really just according to the vision of the listener, who the listener is and what the messaging is that gives them the value that they're looking for. Anne: Yeah. Imperfect is actually perfect. Lau: It is. Anne: I really believe that. And I think because that connects to people on a very raw and real level, and that's where you get a lot of the casting specs say, make it conversational, make it natural as if you're talking to your friends, make it real. And that is probably the hardest thing for us to do as voice actors. And I think we spend our careers honing that skill of being a better actor and being more real and authentic. And like you said, their scripts are all over the place. Sometimes they're sad and doleful, and we need to be able to be in that moment and create those scenes and react to those scenes. And that is not always a pretty sound. I think one of my favorite corporate narrations that I always play from when I'm presenting corporate narration is a voice actress who, her voice cracks. And it's not a perfect sound. And I think a lot of my students, they feel like they have to be articulate, and I'm like, we're not articulate in the real world. As long as you can understand what I'm saying, contrary to popular belief, you do not need to be articulate because when you're too articulate, then it becomes something that is difficult to listen to. Lau: That's exactly right. And this idea of perfection and this idea of polished is just not where we wanna go oftentimes. It just, in fact, it's the anti that now, it's the opposite of that now. It's like, what's our largest generation now? Our largest generation is millennials in the United States. And so we wanna emulate the demographic to get an empathy factor that, oh, this is me. This sounds like me. This person feels the way I feel. They understand me. Well, I can't sound like that in order to get that feeling, right? It's a more colloquial, more chill, more like laid back, kind of feel to it. And that's hard. I think for the over 40 crowd, like my generation generation Xeer, it's really hard to say, wait a second. What happened to all of our theater acting background? What happened to all of our speech and rhetoric? What happened to, well, it's there, you have to trust it's there, but it's not always applicable to what we're doing in the script. You know what I like to do? Anne, I like to say, change the word conversational and natural, which is throws people oftentimes -- change it to environmental, change it to contextual, because we wanna hear you being somewhere. We wanna hear you involved in something. Anne: Oh I agree with that. Lau: It's not like sound this way. . Anne: Sure. And besides that, I'm always adding in, I wanna hear movement. I wanna hear movement in the scene. It's not you in a monologue. There's so many people that will do the work and say, okay, I'm Anne, I'm talking to my friend Lau, and we're in the kitchen. And they do all that setup work. And then all they do is read the words. And it becomes a monologue to them. Even if they start off talking to Lau, right, they tend to go off, and then they're speaking into the air. And I'm like, if you were on a stage and you were interacting with someone, like you should be with the listener, right, interacting, you would not be necessarily going off on a monologue, 'cause that would be impolite, right? You know, you need to let them in on the conversation. You need to check in on them once in a while. And also when you do that, if you can move in the scene, that makes your audition or your read a whole lot more impactful, I think, than just standing in the same place. Because on a stage you wouldn't stand in the same place typically for too long, right? You'd have some movement. And so that translates to so many things. Right? In the middle of the script, stop and take a look. And where are you? What happened in the scene? Did it change? Did you stand up? Did you walk across the room? Did you look at Lau and see if Lau is shaking her head in agreement or does she have a question? And so I think if you can really set those scenes up, even in something that is written very like dry, and I see this all the time in, in narration scripts, you wanna make sure that that's a more engaging script. You wanna bring that script to life. Well, how are you gonna do that when you're just standing there in the same spot and the energy is only coming out of your lips? Lau: Exactly. It's unnatural. Anne: It's unnatural. We need energy in our hands and our body movement in the scene changes. That I think is just, is so important to bring that to life. Lau: It's, it's so important. And for those folks who are listening in, who have actor training and have trained under the discipline of Sanford Meisner, Meisner's work was based in the concept that all we're asking you to do is act natural under purely unnatural circumstances. So it's, it's really okay. I'm tricking my brain into thinking this is real, even though I know it's not real, whether you're in a theater or a vocal booth or in front of a camera, it couldn't be further from real. Right? But there has to be a piece of you psychologically that stays alive that says I am doing the kind of work that I'm trained to do, that I want to be doing, that I'm enjoying doing. And I give myself permission to fall, to jump, to fail, to make mistakes, to do what real people do in real time. This idea of like, oh, I shouldn't mess up, I shouldn't make a mistake, I should get it right the first or second time -- it's not a natural way to think because natural terms in nature is real time for us. And in real time, we make tons of mistakes and stammer and we stutter and we forget information. Right? Anyone who loves SNL, love that show loved it because of all the mistakes they made. Anne: Those were the funniest. Lau: They were the funniest. Anne: Those were the funniest. Lau: They were hilarious. Right? Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: It's like, you know, we always say, how do you determine the difference between an amateur and a professional? And it's easy. They both make mistakes and quite oftentimes a lot, but the amateur will fall apart. They'll melt down. They won't be able to function. The professional will do a little this and a little of that. Sorry about that. And then move on and use it, use it. Anne: People are so forgiving. They really are. And again, like I said, if all you're thinking about is what you're sounding like and having that perfect voice, and then scrutinizing and, and hating yourself because you don't sound a particular way, think again. Because I was on stage too a long time ago, but also when I used to teach in front of students, right, I would get so excited -- like I was always told that I was a great teacher because I was so excited about the stuff that I was saying. Right? I was passionate. I was enthusiastic. I wanted to share. And that was what made me a good teacher. And I oftentimes would stand up in front of the class. My brain would be going 100 miles an hour, but what came outta my mouth would be gobbledygook sometimes. But they forgave me. I did not speak perfectly. Sometimes I like, oh, wait a minute. I forgot something. So imperfect. I had students who were so much more aligned with me and who really listened to me because I was imperfect. And I was able to admit that and be honest with them. And I never once tried to say, oh, I know more than you. I just wanted to inspire and motivate. Lau: Right. Right. Anne: And that is something I take behind the mic with me. No matter what genre I'm doing specifically though, e-learning, absolutely. I give my heart. Because that is, that is what people connect with. Lau: Yes, absolutely. Anne: But I cannot afford to listen to what I sound like. Or even if I go there a little bit when I'm editing -- so sometimes when I edit, yeah. I get a little tired of my voice. But then again, that's listening to myself and being nitpicking to get rid of breaths and stuff like that. And then it's just becomes tiring because I've been doing it for three hours. So that's different than not liking the way your voice sounds. And so I think you have to just have faith in the fact that you are in this industry, people are hiring you and paying you money for your voice. And that is giving you the validation that, you know what, you're probably doing a pretty good job. Otherwise you may not make any money. You not be able to do that. So. Lau: If you're not being invited back, and you have no bookings, and no one's working with you, then you'll say, oh, I have to evaluate this, what's going on. But you know, you have to psychologically be okay with living in the world of imperfection. You have to live -- certainly in the technical world. It's a tech glitch a minute. You have to be okay with living in the world of mistakes and the mar, the scar. Like the scar makes us interesting. Like, I don't want you to cover it up. I don't want you to laser it off. I don't want you to Photoshop it. I wanna see it. It's interesting to me. It's like your experience, you know? Anne: It's that whole filter thing that's going on now, right? In social media, like are you prettier with the filter or without the filter? Guess what? You're pretty without the filter, you're pretty just as you are. Lau: And you have to measure, you have to see, how am I measuring pretty? Like, what is my measurement for that? How deep do I go with that layer? And I'd like to think as we age and we get a little older and more experienced, we go deeper, deeper, deeper below the surface of the skin. We go like really deep and say, wow. There's a lot of beauty in there that I can bring out that is not aesthetically beautiful. But that, like, I go back to Shakespeare, 'cause I think Shakespeare is everything, and the characters, especially the female characters, but the male characters as well, some of them are really dirty and gritty and ugly and -- but you can't play them until like you're 40 and you understand a little bit about life. You understand a little bit about the grit of experience. Maybe God forbid, you've lost a child. Maybe you've gotten divorced. Maybe you've lost money and then gotten money back. Like these things really can become beautiful lessons and stories in our life that we can share and message versus hide and cover. And I like to think of scripts and copy in that way. It's like, if you're a mom or you took time off, let's say you took 20 years off and you're coming back, don't hide who you are. Don't hide your history. Bring your history to the table 'cause psychologically that's gonna give you a more authentic read in what you're doing potentially. Anne: Yeah. And I'm also gonna say not to give the read that you think people expect of you. Again, what makes us interesting is our imperfections and our flaws. And so I highly, highly encourage and, and recommend BOSSes that you look beyond, like you were saying, beyond the surface, hashtag no filter. Right guys? Like we want those reads. We want those reads that are real and raw and don't have the pretty sound filter put on there. We should have a, a hashtag for that in social media for voiceover, hashtag no pretty voice or -- Lau: That's -- I love that. Anne: You know what I mean? Lau: I love that. And check, we do checks all the time. Check your psychology at the door. Check it. Like not over-analyze. You know, analysis can be paralysis, but, but really check it like, am I okay with not being perfect? And am I also okay with -- oh, here's another one, Anne. Not thinking I'm perfect. Because we don't wanna work with people that are so vain and so arrogant. And so like I did my takes. I'm all done. And if you don't like it, it's too bad. I wanna work with someone who they're 50, 60, 70, 80 years old. And they're like, I'm learning still. I'm exploring. I wanna develop. Can you share something with me? I'm not like done. I'm not finished. I'm not like a final product myself. You know, I'm a work in progress. Anne: Yeah, yeah. I don't think any of us really should think that way anyway. No matter what stage we're at. Right? Always something to learn. Lau: Well, I think it always stops you. It stops your progress and what you could potentially learn and become when you just think that you have it all. You got it all down pat and it's polished and you know it. And that's a big question I get too in coaching, Anne, is like, should I go after this, Lau? Should I go after that? And I said, well, I don't know if you should go after it. Ask yourself the question authentically. How do you feel about it? How are you connecting with it? Where is your voice right now? I mean, I think you're asking the wrong question. I think the questions are really, how do I wanna develop my vocabulary right of knowledge? Anne: How should I go after this? Or let's make a plan to go after this. And I think if the desire is there, hey, it's all part of the journey too. I'm a firm believer that, you know what? I would say to myself, well, I've never gone after animation because I don't know, for me right now, the passion is not necessarily in characters. But I'll tell you what, I'm a character in everything that I do. And I'm a character in medical narration. I am a character in corporate narration. I'm a character in commercial, and it just may not be as animated or cartoon-like, but absolutely we are all actors. We are all characters. Lau: And these days, you know in character work a lot of times, you know, in some of the largest scripts that we see coming through for Pixar and Disney -- Anne: It's real. Lau: They just want real sounds. They want real VO. They don't even want character voices. They make a big note in bold, no character voices. And they said like the leads, these are the leads because we had, you know, A-List Hollywood actors playing these leads. So we wanted to hear who Ray Romano really is, who Tom Cruz really is, who Queen Latifah really is. So that's kind of trickled down, I think in a nice way to the larger population where character now means like, well, who are you? What's the authentic sound you make? That we -- we'll consider that a character. Anne: Absolutely. I love this conversation. Lau: It's inspiring. It really is. Anne: So BOSSes out there, love your voice. Embrace it. Be real. Absolutely. All right. So Lau, I am so excited we had this conversation. I can't wait to have another conversation with you next week. So BOSSes out there, if you would like to make an impact and contribute to the communities that give back to you, find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. And also a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. I love ipDTL. It allows me and Lau to connect with you. BOSSes out there, find out more at ipdtl.com. Have an amazing week, guys, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Auditions can be as nerve wracking as a performance, but the best way to come out on top is to be prepared. Anne & Lau are audition experts. When you break it down, an audition is a sample of your performance, and bosses, we know you know how to perform! The best way to start an audition is with copy you feel confident reading and that showcases your acting chops. Making genuine connections with the other actors in the space and casting directors is what keeps you on their mind long after the read ends. Confidence goes a long way in audition settings. Do not shy away from live auditions, and having your 10 favorite scripts on hand will make the impromptu auditions feel more manageable. Want to learn more? Tune in for the full scoop… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to bring back the one and only Lau Lapides to the show. Thank you, Lau, for joining me. I'm so excited to talk to you today. Lau: I'm thrilled to be here as always, thrilled to be here, Anne. Anne: Well, Lau, it's been a week. Lau: And I feel like it's been a month with how much our -- how busy our lives are, right, Anne? Anne: I know, right? Lau: I mean, it's like so much. Anne: But this week you were a part of me besides the podcast, besides the podcast. So I'm very excited to be working with you as an agent. And so you did something that I have never experienced before. You called me into a last minute audition. And I said, oh, okay. I didn't have any script. You called me into a Zoom room. And I was like, okay, is that gonna just be me and the casting director? Oh, that's so lovely for Lau to think of me like that. I'm really excited. Okay. Sure. So I joined the Zoom session and there were like, whoa, quite a few people on there. And I didn't have a script. I didn't know what was gonna go on, what was happening. Let's talk about this audition that you called me into and your process for these things. Lau: You were such a good sport. 'Cause you could have said no, I know it's not in your vocabulary to say no, but -- Anne: It's so true. Lau: -- you could have. It would've been totally fine if you said no, but I was really pleasantly surprised to see that not only you, but everyone in that room said yes to coming in the room. Now I'll set it up for you since today we're talking about auditions. This was a little bit, I would call it unorthodox. It was a little bit unorthodox the way we set this up, but that's kind of my middle name and I'm alright with that. I go with that 'cause I like to have a little fire, a little fire in life. So the premise of this audition was that our friend and producer coming in from Switzerland, Lamar Hawkings -- amazing man, amazing, who is very, very close friends with my colleague Joanne Yarrow that I work with at my studio -- invited him in to say, hey, you are doing amazing projects. I mean my friend, Joanne -- who I have to introduce you to, she's fabulous -- she's the voice now the American voice, of La Occitane campaign that he handles. And so I'll send you that. It's awesome. So I'm like, Ooh, we have a wonderful agency, MCVO. We have a wonderful membership base at the studio, talent inner circle. Why don't I invite some of our really great people with great voices to come in and do a private audition for Lamar? And he was completely up for it. He said, I would love that, Lau. I'm looking for new talent. I'm doing a new animation soon. I'm doing commercial campaigns. I'm doing this. And that. He's very, very busy. He's in Switzerland, but he's actually from the states, originally from Texas. And I said, great, let's do it. So we set it up for yesterday. Now here's the thing. A bunch of the people knew that the audition were coming because they were in the studio base, the talent inner circle studio base and had RSVPed that, yes, I want to attend this. I'm able to, I've been screened. I'm accepted in, and I'm coming in. Great. But then I had a number of open slots that I said, I've got to get more MCVO people knowing about this and coming in because this is a legit audition, and it's a live audition. It's something I really love to do and love to host. Anne: That was so different for me. I mean, I felt like I traveled into LA and went to an in-person audition again almost. Lau: Exactly. That's exactly what happened. And fun fact from the background, 'cause no one ever sees what's going on in the background, I was on vacation. I was up in the Berkshires. Like literally I'm at lunch with my husband, and I'm texting like a wild woman. He said, what are you doing? I said, you know, I'm working. It's always a work vacation for me, a workcation. I said, I'm getting more talent to come in and know about this audition, who don't know, from MCVO, and I'm texting you, and I'm texting Jay Michael Collins, and I'm texting Terrell, and I'm texting Carol, and I'm texting this one, and I'm texting Mike Pollock. And all of a sudden, all these people are saying yes and jumping in, and I didn't even have time to tell them what it was. I didn't even have time to say anything. Anne: That was absolutely the thing. And I'm like, whoa, wait a minute. And I'll admit to you, BOSSes out there, I got in the room and I didn't have copy. And I thought, am I missing something? And thank goodness that Lau, you gave me a little bit of information and said grab some commercial copy or we have some. When I got in there, I didn't see it. Maybe it was there and I just didn't know where to look. So I got off and I thought, oh, well that must look horrible. . Lau: No, not at all. Anne: I went to go grab copy. And then I came back in and then it was like, what two people left to go? So I made it just in time. Lau: And then Carol Alfred, who is facilitating, right, one of our coaches, she's texting me, ah, Anne Ganguzza is on. And then she goes, she left. What she left? Where'd she go? And I'm like, Anne, where are you? I thought maybe you were having a technical issue or you had to go and do something. Anne: I went to go find some copy because I didn't wanna be called on and then say, I don't have copy. You know what I mean? So I went to go grab some. Lau: Right. And now, you know, very rarely when we do this kind of audition, we always have copy on hand for cold reads. I know some talent don't prefer to do a cold read. So we say, we'll bring something you wanna bring that shows you off, but. Anne: I was ice cold I was ice cold, but I said to myself, okay -- and BOSSes, listen, when your agent asks you to come in and audition, it's a sign that they believe in you, number one. And that they would not have asked you to come into an audition if they did not feel that you were worthy of doing an audition. And there was no way that I was going to disappoint my agent. Lau: Oh, and I appreciated that so much. And some of the others that came in, it was hilarious. I'm gonna save some of the texts that were like, hey Lau. Uh, that was great. What was that? Where was it? Anne: Yeah, exactly. What just happened? Lau: What happened? It was, you were like, you were in some matrix. There was, there was some vortex that came through like a storm, but I gotta tell you, and this is good for your listeners to hear, every single person who came in that thought they were unprepared or didn't have copy or weren't sure what they were doing did a fantastic job. And it just reminded me what pros we all are when we get in a room. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: We have passion. We love what we're doing. There's this super connected quality of being in a room with other talent, 'cause that's unexpected as well to be in a room with other talent like that. Anne: I was gonna say absolutely. One of the other things was, oh my God. And everybody else is listening to me. It's not just the agent, the casting director. It is like 50 people in the room. I don't know how many people were in the room, but there were more than one. There was quite a few people listening. And I happened to just come in really quickly with J. Michael Collins who was reading. And then that's when I said, I don't have that copy. And so I skedaddled outta there. And fortunately you had said, just grab any copy. And I said, okay. So I went and I grabbed some copy and it was, my read was ice cold. But again, like I said, BOSSe so important to know that when your agent gives you an audition, it's because they have the faith in you that you're gonna be able to execute. And I think that that is the one thing that really saved me. And I will admit to you, BOSSes, when you're thrown into a situation like that and you're not quite sure what's happening, you're kind of running on adrenaline, and it's a little scary, I'm just gonna say, not knowing what's happening. But I think it was a wonderful lesson for me, even as long as I've been in this industry, just to trust in your agent, trust in yourself, have faith in the process and just go forth and execute. And what's the worst that can happen? I mean, well, I thought of a billion things like, I was like, when I was done, I was like, I'm not quite sure how that went, but he said, nice job. So I'm okay with that. Lau: Yeah. And I gotta tell you, Anne, that enabled me to what I debrief with him -- we're debriefing on Tuesday -- I can now go down the list and say, do you remember this person? You remember this? You had a visual, not only in sound, you had a visual. You had more than one read on a lot of people as well. you had a character read, you had a commercial read, this, that. And to be able to really discuss the performances for particular projects that he's working on -- so it's never just like this one hit wonder and go. It's always like, Ooh, I like the quality of this person, that person. Can I call them back? And I see, hear their demo? Can I, whatever; it's just like an introduction to you. Anne: And that I think is brilliant in reality, because like you have introduced your roster to a potential client and the visual, yes. Now, you know, of course I'm sure there's a bunch of people in their studios going, well, this is an audition over Zoom. And then the engineers in there will be going, I don't know if Zoom is the best quality, but honestly I think that any good casting director is gonna know from your performance, whether it's in your studio or through Zoom or whatever, they're gonna understand. And they're gonna know a good performance when they see one. Lau: Absolutely. And this particular producer, from what I know of his background, well, he has a very rich history of live performance and theater and media. Anne: And that aligns with it. Lau: He gets it. He gets that, because I had people who were in cars and bathrooms, in their workstation. They were, I mean they were coming in from everywhere. So his business brain, I'm sure was saying, oh, they're busy people. They're not just sitting in a spot waiting for me. They're working, they're running, they're traveling, they're on vacation. They're this or that. I'm thankful that they took the time to come in so I could see their work for projects. Anne: And that means a lot too, I'm quite sure. And especially again, like we're always trying to make in auditions -- and I love this episode because this is becoming so much more than just a normal audition type of episode, where we give you the tips and the tricks -- because the experience of this one was so different, and it really, I think can teach us how to make ourselves memorable in a multitude of ways, not just knowing the conditions, right, of the audition. Number one, you called us in cold or you called certain people in cold, and that can resonate well with whoever's listening for that potential client. And also again, there's that visual, and it is like the in person auditions that -- God, I used to go in and it was great. I'd see everybody in the lobby. Now the difference is that I would audition in front of just, you know, it was just me. And it wouldn't be everybody else listening to my auditions. So that added a whole other level to -- it was almost like a workshop. But in reality, if you tend to get nervous in these experiences that could even potentially make you more nervous. So again, having the ability and the privilege to be able to make that kind of impression on a potential client, I think is wonderful. And Lau, you're one of the few people I know that do this. And so I think it's a wonderful thing, even though I had no idea what it was when I was doing it, but , but now I know. Lau: Do we ever, right? Anne: But now I know. Lau: Therein lies the educational value when we talk about professional development is it really one audition or is it as you called it, Anne, an opportunity to build a relationship with a wonderful producer, who's gonna have a lifetime of stuff. That's I think it's the latter, really. It's never just one audition for one thing. It's always like, hey, you're cool. You're a cool, dude. You're a cool dudette. I like you. Right? I like your vibe. And that's where if I were to say to your listeners and also to my audience that came in, many of which were coming in from the studio membership, we're at different stages of the game. I would say one of the things I want you to really consider and remember is that when a producer meets you live, they wanna see a little bit of who you are. They wanna catch your personality and your energy and your persona a little bit. So especially him, especially Lamar. So don't be afraid -- you don't wanna take up a ton of time, but don't be afraid to just chill a little bit and have a little bit of that conversational feel to what you're doing, because you're really meeting a real person in real time. It's a great opportunity for them to know a little piece of your actual personality versus I'm just a voiceover talent and here's my read. No, I'm Anne, I'm Lau. I'm J, and this is what I'm doing and I'm, I'm traveling and I'm whatever, that's cool. People like that. It's the goal of how do I make you feel? Am I gonna make you feel comfortable or am I gonna make you feel uncomfortable? Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I like the fact that you had the ability for everyone to kind of listen to everybody else's auditions. I, at the time though, because I was hunting down copy, and then I literally had another session that was coming up like after five minutes, I couldn't stay for a long time, but what I did stay for, I really enjoyed. And I heard people doing all different types of copy, and I thought, wow, this is really kind of cool. It felt to me like a combination of a showcase and an audition, an in-person audition. Lau: That's what it turned into that's and if you want to, I'm happy to send you the replay because we record those sessions and we hold those for archival purposes. If you want it -- Anne: That's wonderful. Lau: -- you could do the whole thing. It lasted about, I wanna say two hours, like a solid two hours. Anne: Wow. Lau: And we had a rotation of people coming in and out, which was amazing. I think we landed on about 30 people with the folks -- Anne: That's fantastic. Lau: -- who couldn't come, couldn't make it, no showed, new people jumping in, 30, like yourself, some of the country's top talent were there. And I was like, oh my God. We were like representing the country's top talent. I was so proud, so proud of everyone and not just the talent for what they delivered, but the kind of people that came in the room and were kind to him. No one pulled a fit. No one was a diva. No one was making excuses. That's all stuff, when we talk about auditioning, that you wanna steer clear of is like rule number one, I didn't wanna land my problems onto you. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Lau: Anyone who's had theater training knows that they teach you in conservatory, leave your trash at the door, right? Don't take it into the workspace. Don't worry. It'll be there when you leave; you can take it with you when you go out, you know, but try not to bring your stuff in with you because you wanna come in as an open slate, a pallet of possibilities. You know, we had talked about solving a problem, filling a need, but it's more than that. It's like, does this person have likability factor? Anne: Sure, sure, absolutely. Lau: You know, would I wanna hang out with them? Anne: And you know, what's so interesting is one of the reasons a lot of people get into voiceover is because they wanna almost like hide behind the microphone and not necessarily show who they are or show their face. And so this kind of just threw that on its side. Lau: And that was great. Anne: Yeah. And that again gives such a good impression, I think, just gives it a whole different dimension to the audition so it's not just the voice, but also the, the person and the personality. And I'm the biggest fan of -- look, people wanna connect with people and not just a logo or a voice. And I really feel that that is, is effective in our profession, that if we can connect with our clients as people, that really, really does a lot to, I think, really secure and, and enhance and, and make us memorable to one another. Lau: It's huge, Anne. I'm so glad you brought that up, the visibility factor, because I could have easily said, hey, take your visuals out. All I need to see is your name or your picture, whatever. Just voiceover's fine. Get people off the hook so they don't have to put on the makeup and the lipstick, but I didn't want that. I wanted them to have the ability, and many of them wanted to come on to be seen as people, and also to see the diversity of our crowd, like our people were coming in literally from all over the world, and everyone had a different look, a different age, a different feel, a different background. I think that's important in terms of having cultivating a community that is both educational and professional level. I just think it enriched everyone else to see the level of talent that was there, that the bar was very high. Age range ranged from like teens to probably 70, and every kind of background. And I think that's very inspirational for people to feel like I'm included. This is inclusive. Like I don't have to sound or look or be someone else. I'm me. And that's who I am. Anne: Right. Correct. Lau: And I think everyone did a fairly accurate job as to their brand, their quality because they felt as comfortable as they could feel in a room full of great people. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Well that was it too. I mean, the fact is, is that I think it was a wonderful experience. Even if let's say I never get cast, the fact that I had the experience for just introducing myself to a potential client in this way has given me more, I'm gonna say confidence and really more confidence in terms of, well, auditions can be anything. Right? Be prepared. It's almost like, oh, I did a quick improv session there. So, you know? Lau: Exactly. And I think, I think COVID changed it to some degree where you don't have to be in an office. You don't have to be in someone else's studio. Your studio is the world now. It's really the world. You could be in your car. You could be in a bathroom. You could be anywhere potentially meeting someone, recording, whatever, the possibilities are endless. It takes me back to even before COVID, Anne, when, when we saw interviews like corporate interviews start to happen in Starbucks. That was one of the big coffee shops that I hear someone behind me, oh, they're having an interview. I'm gonna be quiet. That was a new thing. I don't know when that started. I wanna say maybe 10 years ago or something, that was a new industry standard that you didn't need to be in an office to have an interview. You could have an interview at Starbucks, and it's now kind of the same for us. Like we could do an audition anywhere. We could be in the mountains and do an audition, which is exciting to me. Anne: Yeah. I really love the additional opportunity to connect. So let me ask you a question then. So this is not the first one that you've done or is it the first one that you've done, first audition like this? Lau: Live? Anne: Yeah, live. Lau: In this way? Anne: Yes. Lau: I have done a number of these before. Not recently. This is the first one I've done recently with someone of this caliber in terms of a producer coming in from Europe, someone that I have the inside scoop on who's producing particular campaigns that I'm interested in and animations that I'm interested in for the agency, getting into that genre, that field. And I like it. I mean, I just personally, as Lau, just as a person, I yearn for that improv energy. I yearn for that feeling of like, yeah, let's just meet. All right, a number of people know, they're RSVPing, they're coming in. But then others may not know; they're coming in now. It's like real life. It's like a party, right? You invite your guest list. but then the guests may bring someone, the guests may invite someone else, da, da, da. It's like an authentic experience of what happens in real life when people are coming together, and they're meeting, and they're showcasing their work. So when we talk about showcases, it's not all premeditated ABC. It's like life networking is life. You don't know who you're gonna sit next to on the plane. You don't know who you're gonna be next to in the elevator. You don't -- and I would say, be careful, ladies and gentlemen, when you go in the restrooms, like be careful what you say, be careful what you do because your whole world is your oyster now for meeting producers and producers can also be mom and pop shops, people who are producing their own podcasts, what have you. You wanna always treat everyone respectfully and equally as the stars that they are in their own world, because you may be collaborating and working with them. Anne: Yeah. Good advice. What other tips would you have then in terms of not just this type of audition, but auditions in general that you've seen? Because you certainly are outside the box I think when it comes to the opportunities that you're affording people, which is a wonderful thing. Lau: Thank you so much, thank you. I would say, and, and just thinking back on that experience, some of the things that I would want to change and shift for some of the talent coming through. One is, and this is like an actor's rule, always have material that is great for you, that you love and feel comfortable with ready to go. It's like, whatever you wanna call it, your demo material, your portfolio material, whatever. Have your strong suits ready to go. And it might even be an audition or two that came in last week that you did a great job. It might be a recent booking. You just have to make sure of course you either have permission to use the script or it's in house. It's not gonna be used for commercial purposes. Or just re-craft it enough so that it becomes your own and you know, it's yours. It's good. It's something you feel comfortable doing. It's where your suit lies. I would have that ready to go. And I would have at least a half, a dozen, 30-second pieces ready to go for something live when it happens. It may happen rarely. But when it happens, it happens. Anne: Yeah. That's such good advice because I literally, like I mentioned, I didn't have it. I went and grabbed something that I -- thankfully I have a large pool of copy that, you know, because I work with, with people with copy. So thankfully, and I found something that I was comfortable with. So that's really wonderful advice. Now I'm gonna make sure that I have a few pieces set aside for if that were to happen again, absolutely. Any other tips? Lau: Yeah. And I have another tip too, and this is like the actor in you. So when we talk to VOs, we say, do you consider yourself an actor? Surprisingly many VOs will say, I'm not really an actor. It's not really what I do. I voiced this. That's what I do. I always like to use the word actor because I don't necessarily mean just acting values in the character. I mean, in your life. So like all the world's a stage, right? You're acting like a pro, you're acting like a coach. You're acting like a producer. You're acting in those role like just like an acting chair of a department or, you know, an acting politician, how we would use that term. So you're acting, so don't forget your actor values. What I mean is like some of the folks that came into the room, I noticed they had to let you know that they were in a rush, or they just stole a break, or they barely made it because they couldn't get outta work, whatever. Let that go, like play the role. The role is I'm coming into this session, and I'm totally ready for this session. And I don't know what's going on in the background. There's a bunch of chaos in the background. I don't know what's going on in the background. I'm acting as the professional in this moment, knowing I'm only gonna be here for how however long I'm here. And then I go back to -- remember, I said, leave your stuff at the door? I'm gonna go back to that. That's hard for people to do, Anne. I think that there's this confessional thing in people that they feel the need to tell you the truth about everything. They wanna tell you how difficult their day was or that their tire has gone down. And I barely made it here, and oh my God, my kid and the baby sitter didn't show up. And I always say, leave it at the door because it's not pertinent to the people that are bringing you in. It's just a waste of time, really, for them. You and I talk about energy a lot, karma, like stars aligning. I really do believe in that. I think things happen for a reason. And I don't want you meaning, not you, but the listener, I don't want you guys to ruin your karma by sticking wrenches in it of things that are happening, whether they're your choice or whether they're just happening to you -- don't bring it into the space because it can't do anything positive for your audition or for your exchange in the rapport building. It just can't. It's like an obstacle that you're putting in the way, and you're qualifying something and using it as an excuse. And you don't wanna fall into the victimization compartment. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Lau: You never wanna fall into that. You wanna fall into the place where it's like, hey, I'm gonna bring you what you need. In fact, I could hire you. In fact, I could hire people for you. In fact, I could do this for you. You wanna be that person that they come to to fix the problem. They don't wanna be the person who creates problems that they don't have, If that makes sense. Anne: Oh, that's wonderful advice. Absolutely. Lau: Yeah. So I would leave that. I would leave that outside of the room, and then one more thing. as the tech queens that we are, tech meaning coaching tech, I want that warm up. Some of the folks didn't warm up, and I could tell exactly who they were, who just did not do the vocal warmup because I know the quality of the reads that they could typically do, and they were rushing into it. Whereas others came in, they were already in a session. They were already recording. They were already vocally warmed up. They were ready to go. I could tell the difference. I don't know if you could tell the difference. I could tell the difference. Anne: I could tell the people who were absolutely ready. You know what I mean? And were like, bam, they had their material and they just -- Lau: They were right there. Anne: -- they just executed. Yep. yep. So yep. I could tell. Yeah. Yeah. Lau: So that readiness that's like being on the bench, you know, as a sports player in the game -- Anne: You're ready to go. Lau: -- you're not in the game yet. You're really not there, but you're visible to the crowd. You're on TV. You're getting ready to get selected. And there's that state of readiness that you have to have so when they look at you, it's like, boom, I'm in the game. I'm ready. There is no transition time that you should need to go through. It really should just be there, present, and delivered. And that's hard. It's -- I make it sound easy. It's not it's transitions like executive functioning skill transitions a lot of people find difficult in life, is how do I pivot from this, to this? To this, to this, without any clutter in the middle of it? Anne: Yeah. I do have a question. Something that I thought, just because again, I wasn't there for the entire time, but I did hear people slating, which I think is fine, but people were slating with other talent agencies as well. And I wasn't quite sure about that. I thought why -- you invited me in, so I wasn't gonna necessarily say what other talent agencies were representing me. Oh, okay. So I was really thrown by that one and I thought should I say other talent agencies that represent me when you invited me in so generously and I just said my name? For me, it didn't seem right. But what are your thoughts on that? Lau: Yeah. And, and now, you know, in retrospect, yeah, for this one, there was no right or wrong. It was totally clean, totally open and that would be the protocol, you're right. That would be the actual protocol because there was an educational value to this workshop, I allowed and wanted to people to slate what they have on their plate to have a high ethos, to show a high ethos for themselves. And because we're not exclusive anyway. We're freelance. But I hear you. Anne: Well, because of the invite, it was just, for me, it was like, well, I could say other, and to be honest with you, I just, that threw me. And so I just said my name, 'cause I wanted to be respectful of you who invited me in as an agent. So. Lau: And actually just post, just for listeners to know behind the scenes, 'cause they would never know this or see this, when we have a meeting and we debrief, and we talk about talent behind their backs, in a nice way, I'll make it clear that if he wants to move forward with anyone, he would do it through MCVO. Anne: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Lau: He would. It would be only in the case of like they're not with MCVO. They're exclusive with someone else. I handpick them to come in. Okay. That's fine. Other than that, everyone's with MCVO or in the tick membership. And so I'm like, so we're kind of representing everyone here. So he would use us as the agent and as the liaison to help with the step by step of everything, if he wanted to really call someone back. Anne: Yeah. Then I would say, just my contribution to this episode would be if you are in that position and your live slating and, and auditioning, I would say respectfully with the agent that invited you to that, you should at least have that agency unless it's been otherwise disclosed that you can mention other agencies that you are represented by. Lau: Absolutely. Anne: Just my thoughts on that. Wow. Well, I wanna say thank you, Lau, for that experience. It's always a pleasure learning from you and talking with you every week. So I really appreciate it. It's been a wonderful conversation. Lau: Oh my pleasure. All the time. I can't wait for the next one. Anne: All right. So guys, BOSSes, I want you to take a moment and imagine yourself being a part of making a difference in our world and giving back to the communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. And a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network like BOSSes, like Lau and I, and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Branding is a form of self-discovery. Your brand is how the world perceives you, but more importantly, how potential voice seekers will perceive you. Anne & Lau want you to put your best foot forward, and that starts with using your name and likeness to let the world know who you really are. Type casting, client feedback, and peer advice can all be tools to build your understanding of how others perceive your brand. But it doesn't stop there! Look inside yourself to learn your core beliefs. What is it that makes you tick? Externalizing this will strengthen your brand and make it authentic, like you. Sounds challenging? Listen up Bosses, Anne & Lau are here to help… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza. Welcome to our business superpower series with the one and only Lau Lapides. Hey Lau. Lau: Hey Anne. Anne: How's it going today? Lau: Oh, it's beyond awesome. I'm always thrilled to be on with you. I mean it's, it's -- Anne: Beyond awesome, I love it. Lau: -- can't wait to see what's gonna happen. Anne: I love it. Well, then I've got a question for you. Okay? Lau: Okay. All right. Anne: So this is a question I get asked a lot. So if you had to give three words to describe me, what would those three words be? Either my voice or something that would help to brand me. What would those three words be? Lau: Now, are you talking about let's qualify that, is that within the profession or is that just in general as a person from the short time that we've known each other? Anne: Well, you know what, since it's such a personal brand, like we are personal brands, I think it could be a mix of both if it needs to be. Because I think people wanna connect to the human side of Anne as well as the business side of Anne. Lau: Okay. And by no means is it just these three words, 'cause we could probably come up with you 50 words for you, but we, we only have so much time. So we'll say three for now. Anne: And hopefully they're good words. Lau: Oh. Of course. Okay. So the first one that comes to my mind that I can't dismiss is feisty. Anne: Oh, feisty! Lau: Feisty. Anne: I like feisty. Lau: Feisty always goes with like fun in my mind too, but feisty -- Anne: That's a good word. Thank you. Lau: The second one would be, I wanna say intelligent. I feel it's a little bit bland of a word. I was almost gonna say sophisticated. Anne: Oh, so feisty, intelligent or sophisticated. I'll take those. Lau: Seasoned. Anne: Ooh, seasoned. Lau: Seasoned. Anne: That's awesome. Wow. Lau: And those are three that come to my mind. If you gimme another five minutes, I'll come up with more. But. Anne: I love that. Wow. Lau: And to be perfectly transparent with our listeners, even though I feel like I've known you forever, we really have only been working together like a week. And we only met, when did we meet, a month or two ago? Right? But see, already I got so much perception of your vibe and the way you work and how you're thinking about things. And it's, it's a lot in a very short amount of time. Anne: I love that. So if I have three words for you, and this is funny, cause look, I have not thought about this, BOSSes. I sprung this on Lau like just as you heard it. So she was kind of not anticipating either. So I'm going to say brilliant. That's one for you. And I mean brilliant in not just a sense of like intelligence, but I mean like brilliant, like sparkly. Lau: Oh. Anne: Like in a sparkly way. Lau: Like how you would say about a diamond or something. Anne: Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like brilliant. Lau: Oh thank you. That's really sweet. Anne: And honestly this is something maybe you're not gonna put it on your, your webpage, but we could think of a different word for it. I mean, I think you could, but beautiful really is another, and I don't mean beautiful like visually I do mean visually, but I really mean beautiful spirit. Like a beautiful spirit. Lau: Thank you. Thank you. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: That means so much more to me. . Anne: So a beautiful spirit and gosh, you know, you said feisty and I love that word. That's a great word, but I -- Lau: Isn't that a great word? Anne: -- also feel like, like a version of feisty, a version of feisty because gosh, I'm thinking of the word, something that would resonate with -- like, no one's gonna pull the wool over your eyes. Lau: Ooh. Anne: Like you're not gonna stand for any kind of nonsense. You are forthright. Lau: Oh, I like that. Thank you. Anne: So those, brilliant, beautiful and forthright. So those would be my three words. And so BOSSes, we get these questions -- Lau and I get these questions all the time, right? What is my brand? How would you describe my voice? And I think it would be a great time to talk about branding, because branding is so difficult to do on your own because -- this is why I asked Lau, what do you think? So I was able to get an assessment from eyes that were not my own or ears that were not my own. And I think it really helps to have someone brand you, but also to have you be a part of that decision in terms of what type of a brand do you wanna be? How do you wanna be perceived out in the business world for your voiceover business? So I know that for my students, there are two different forms of branding. One is a visual branding, which could be your website, right, and how you wanna represent visually. But also vocally. I make it a point to tell students, as we go through our sessions together, I will be vocally branding them. And that really means to assess their tone, their style, and where I feel they fit within the industry in terms of what brands do you think you would represent well, and what styles and what industries your voice would resonate in. Lau: Hmm. I think that's brilliant. I mean, that's so important and that's the very thing that everyone needs, everyone's looking for. Everyone needs it. Sometimes I would imagine it doesn't always like match or it's not always on the level of what someone is self-perceiving, and that's why it's so imperative that you have great coach, great people surrounding you to sort of keep you in line and keep you realizing what is realistic in your perception of whatever your branding is. So I think that that's fantastic that you do that. It's so important, and to do it upfront versus a lot later on, so hearts are not broken you know what I mean? Anne: Well, I think that branding is a process and I think that you can also evolve your brand. You don't have to be one specific brand or three specific adjectives. As a matter of fact, like Lau, you said before, there could be multiple words that describe you. And it's not something that -- you know, it took me a minute to kind of formulate my three words for you, 'cause I was making a decision. There's so many words that came to mind, but as making a decision, how do I best feel that your brand is assessed? And so I think it's important for BOSSes to know out there that branding is not something you can do just over a night or maybe by asking a few questions. I think it's something that happens over time, and it's something that can actually really evolve along with you. I know that my brand, especially my business brand, when I first got out there, I was Anne Speak. And you know, that was like, Anne Speak. What, you know, what is that? What is Anne Speak? And Anne Speak was a very different logo and a very different look on my website. And I've evolved into something that I feel is more authentically me over the years in terms of who I am. And I, I love that you said intelligent because that was one thing that I really wanted for people to perceive about me. It could just be that a female that worked in engineering, that is one of those things that I always wanted people to see me as intelligent and not necessarily, oh, there's a female. I want just here's somebody who knows what they're doing. And some people think that that's why I wear glasses, but honestly I just need them to see . Um, but glasses have always been a big part of my brand. Lau: The truth comes out. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Anne: Well, what about you Lau? 'Cause you've been in the business for some time. And how has your brand evolved over the years? Lau: Well, you know, it's funny. When I started this business, Lau Lapides Company, the studio, I ended up keeping the name throughout. I've never really changed the name itself. I think when I first started though, I always had the mindset of an agent in my head, though it was funny. I wasn't really starting an agency per se. I was starting a studio. Right? So I had this idea of actors work, voice actors work. And so that was one of the running titles in my mind of naming a business, 'cause I wanted talent to work, and I wanted to help them get to work. That was one of -- so that was one of the original working title ideas I had. But then it went to Lau Lapides Company fairly fast and then I stuck with it. Here's the interesting thing I found, Anne, is that despite me or despite what I was thinking, it had a very large appeal. It had a large presence. That's what I'm looking for, a large presence to people on the outside that were saying, wow, you have a big company. And so I would start listening, I think in branding, how do I learn who I am? I have to listen to my audience. And so I spent a lot of time listening to how I was perceived by the audience. And I was astounded at how I was being perceived. And one was this big, large presence. And I think because the name was Lau Lapides Company, it sounded big. It had a largess. So people would come and say, wow, you have an enterprise. Wow you have this, Wow, you have that. And I was very small at the start, as most businesses are. Anne: Sure. Well, one person sometimes. And I love that you talked about your personal name because again, I'm always of the thought that we are our own personal brand. We're selling a product that is very personal to us. It's our voice. Right? It's our essence. And so I always think, well, what better name for your product or your company than your name? And it's funny because people might say, well, I have a long name that's difficult to spell or I have Anne with an E that people always forget. But honestly I'm always like, well look when I need a tissue, I ask for a Kleenex, right? So when I need a voiceover, I should ask for a Lau Lapides or an Anne Ganguzza. Lau: That's right. Anne: And so I've come from the place of abundance as you like to say. And I manifested, right? I am just putting it out there. I'm Anne Ganguzza and lo and behold, at some point people are gonna be asking for an Anne Ganguzza and it, and it will work. And so that was part of my branding, my personal branding for my name was my name. And so my legal company name is Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions. And so it's interesting 'cause you're Lau Lapides Company and I'm Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions. Lau: That's right, that's right. Anne: So I settled on that after many years of trying to figure out what should I name my company? What domain should I buy? Because I thought Anne Speaks was so cute, but we know that nobody really knows what an Anne Speak is. Um, it's not really searchable, but Anne Ganguzza is, right? Lau: Right. Anne: So I love that. And I think you wanted to see what people thought of you, right? Lau: I did. Anne: And that was the basis for the beginning of a brand. So I think any of you BOSSes that are out there and you're starting the branding journey, I think it first has to start with you and the basis of who you are as a person. because it is such a personal brand. Now maybe you're not gonna put those words out beautiful, but maybe beautiful voiceover, who knows. I mean -- Lau: Who knows? Anne: -- whatever comes to you that you wanna be perceived as. Lau: The funny part about it was, Anne, to me it was clunky. It wasn't a smooth transition or polished thing because my name was hard to say it's hard to pronounce. It's hard to spell. I got a lot of people who legitimately thought I was an Asian man. Like literally they had no idea I was a Caucasian white woman, and everyone mispronounced my name, everyone. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: And so a few of the folks that are close to me said, are you sure you wanna keep the name? Because no one's gonna get it right. and they're gonna mispronounce it. And I said, absolutely. Anne: Yes. Oh my God. Lau: That's what makes it memorable. Anne: I am so in agreement with you, so in agreement with you about that, and that's like, well, don't you think people are gonna spell your name wrong? Well, yeah. I mean, but no. People will learn it and Ganguzza, which to a lot of people think is really a difficult name to spell -- it's not, spelled the way it sounds -- Lau: It's different. Anne: But a lot of people were like, yeah. And so why would you do that? I'm like, hey, no, keep it. It's kind of one of the reasons why I kept my unique New Jersey phone number for my cell phone, because people would know if it was coming from that area code, it was Anne Ganguzza. Lau: So that's right. and as they stumble over the name and still stumble over the name and mispronounce it, it never bothers me. I love it because I know as they learn how to pronounce it or catch something, they're thinking about -- Anne: They're gonna remember it. Lau: Yes. Mm-hmm, they're thinking about, they're gonna remember -- Anne: They're thinking about you. Lau: Yeah. So I think that's a hook for a lot of folks to think about it. It doesn't have to be easy and it doesn't have to be common. It could be something a little bit unique that people remember that they have a tough time with too. Anne: Right. Now, and so let's talk a little bit about visual branding. So for visual branding, I'm assuming like visual branding would be your logo, your website. And so things that represent your store front, that would be the visual branding. It can also be the visual branding of your person. If you're a person that goes to conferences or you're a person that goes out and speaks, go to the chamber of commerce and you're representing your business. So visually branding, so it's a little bit different than vocally branding. So what are some steps that you take, Lau, to visually help brand yourself or others? Like what steps can the BOSSes take to start with the visual branding? Lau: Gosh, that's a great question, Anne, and it's like asking someone to think like a graphic designer. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Or a web designer, right, or do something that I personally am not. I am not a visual designer. I'm not a graphic designer. And yet when I was starting out with a website, I had to kind of become that in the sense of the designer would need to know, what was I going for? What was the visual I was seeing. So I had to -- Anne: Colors. I think starting with them -- Lau: -- work with them. Colors. Anne: Colors. Lau: Colors, colors. Anne: I think colors are a good start. Right? Lau: Huge. So what I did was, and I remember doing this years ago before I actually started the studio, I started asking some of my students at that time, I would say, what color do you think of when you think of me? Anne: Yeah. Absolutely. Lau: And I remember, I remember some of their responses that it was so memorable to me. One of the women that I worked with was amazing. And she said, oh, red. Anne: Yeah. Lau: It just like came right out. Just like that. I said, you don't have to think about that for a second. She said, no, no, you're blunt. You're vibrant, you're specific you're out there and unapologetic, and you're red. . Anne: Yep. I agree with that. I totally -- Lau: 'Cause I love all colors, Anne. I don't have a favorite color. Like any color you give me, I would like. Anne: Oh really? Lau: Yeah. Anne: So my favorite color is blue, right? Yes. Believe it or not, blue -- and blue is actually my brand. If you go to annganguzza.com, blue is -- but I also love red. Okay? Lau: I can see that. Yes. Anne: And so red -- yes -- red is part of my VO BOSS brand. So I got to have the best of both worlds and my favorite colors. And it's not necessarily a vibrant, bright red, but it is more of a deeper red. That is one of my very favorite colors. And so I got to have both for both of my brands. And so I think it starts, colorwise also, I think it can really describe you in a lot of ways, colors. You know, Blue's very professional calming, but for me, blue is also the color of my eyes. And it was always been my favorite color. I mean, when I was a kid blue everything, and I had blue stripes painted in my room on my walls because I love the color blue. And so that's really an integral part of who I am. And I think starting with those colors and it was something within that color palette can be a great visual representation. And I'll tell you what I do with a lot of my students, if I were helping them brand themselves is we, we actually create a, a private Pinterest board, and I have them just like a vision board, right, I have them pin everything that they love on one of a board that they call Sarah's branding board. Right? And they pin their favorite colors. And then maybe they'll go to like Behr paints and get a color palette, right? Pick their favorite colors, pick their favorite fonts, pick their favorite things, and flowers and whatever that might be and put that on a board. And what's really cool is that -- I'm not saying you have to design the website, but you give that to the person who's doing your website design. And that is a great representation of who you visually are as a brand. Lau: Oh, I love that. That's fab. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: That's fab. And you know, the other thing that comes to my mind is shape. So when I think about shape, right? I think about the first thing that comes to my mind was the documentary on coffee, the great coffee kings entrepreneurs around the world. And Starbucks had done years and years of studies about their furniture. Like what shape should their furniture be in their stores? And they went from square to rectangle to oval, to round, whatever. Bottom line they landed on more -- at that time, it may have changed -- more round than square and the reasoning being, they want the community to be connected in the circular sense than in a square sense with sharp corners and sharp edges. That's, I mean, they were really going to town with the details. Anne: That's, that's really interesting. Lau: And I learned a lot from that and I thought, gee, what shape am I? What shape am I? And my logo was very square. It was actually very rectangular. And I analyzed why I did that. At the time I was coming out of an executive speech firm that was pretty square. I mean, they were pretty corporate in the sense. Anne: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lau: I thought it was, was the right thing, the right thing to have a logo that had subliminally, I thought that had sharp, sharp, structured edges to it. Anne: That makes sense. Lau: I since created a new logo, and it's always in a, a work in progress, like everything we're always work in progress, and I didn't even think about this. I just did it, Anne. It became circular. It became circular. I like the image, but I also love the sense of just roundness and the world and the -- Anne: Softening. Lau: -- connections. Softening. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: Yeah. So I think shape plays a big part in your branding. Anne: That is so interesting. And I, I interesting that 'cause shape can define your website. You can have a curved logo or even curved edges on your website or represented in circles for me. I'm very clean. I'm gonna say clean lines, clean circles. And I'm gonna say -- that's so funny because your furniture decor can say a lot about your taste as well, right? I used it for many, many years. It was more of like a, a Tuscan Italian dark wood. And then literally just moved to this new house, which became the interpretive farmhouse. Right? And now I became all clean lines, and my backyard landscaping, believe it or not is not circular. And it's funny because I would go to my neighbors' yards as they were getting them landscaped. And I'd be like, I love the circular curved paths, but in retrospect, my backyard is very square and asymmetrical, rectangular and asymmetrical. And there's something to that as well. So I think that BOSSes think about those things in terms of visual branding, put them on a Pinterest board that you can either give to your website designer or use it yourself in terms of colors and shapes really say a lot. And fonts, I love clean fonts. I don't like fonts with curly anything. I don't like fonts that are Times New Roman like that kind of like that. I like fonts that are plain like Arial, you know, that kind of a Sans Serif, those types of things. So clean and readable and clear. And I feel that that also describes my voice, believe it or not clear and professional. And so those are my font choices. Then comes the part of the visual branding is also how you write about yourself, how you describe yourself. Do you write in the first person, do you write in the third person? You know, how is it that you're describing yourself on your webpage for your bio or for your business? But that really is a visual branding thing. And I think it can absolutely help if you start doing that and work with someone to help you to develop your visual brand. It's sometimes really difficult and know that it can evolve. I mean, absolutely. My colors when I first started were dark green. So who knew, right? I evolved my brand into blue and deep red. And now maybe it'll turn into something else. But brands do evolve. They do refresh. And I literally just had a refresh of the VO BOSS website. And so, so the colors that I had before were more brighter red and more of a royal blue. Now I've got maybe just a deep red and black. So the look is different. The website design, the logo is clearer and so things can evolve. And I think it's good for you to refresh your brand once in a while. Lau: Absolutely. Anne: Now let's talk about vocal branding. So it's something that I say that I do. And I, there's not a lot of people who they're like, oh, I love that you vocally brand me. What do you do? But I think a lot of people are vocally branded, right? When we try to describe what are the traits of my voice that you hear? I think that's definitely one, but also I think not just what are the traits of my voice, whether it's friendly, warm, whatever could be -- Lau: The qualities. Anne: The qualities of voice. But I think it's also more of a style as well. What do you think, Lau? Lau: Oh, oh my goodness. Absolutely. I feel like your personality, your persona, your inners, so to speak, do come out in the sound of your voice. Like when we're working with a client to find their voice, it's not just for voiceover delivery. It's for authentication of your identity, of your strength, of your inner soul, if you will. It goes that deep. So I think a branding is an offshoot of that. It doesn't have to expose everything about you personally, but there is that element there of how do you come across? How are you perceived on a daily basis outside of copy, outside of a booth, outside of work? And melting that into your professional life so it's not a totally separate thing. It's really a hybrid of your persona, your personality, the personification of personalization with your professional chosen life and choices that you've made. It's kind of a combination of those two. I don't believe it's one or the other. So I think your vocal branding is really every possible range of motion movement that your voice is capable of doing and really landing on what do I do most? What do I do best? What do I like doing? Anne: Right, and a lot of that has to do with like, you know, when I talk about vocal branding, you're right, it doesn't stop at the actual technicality of a vocal. It really, it becomes what styles, what do you love? What are you passionate about? Because again, that personality, that authenticity, that you, that unique you is a part of your vocal. So it's so interesting when people try to just categorize it as just being friendly, warm, compassionate, gravelly. It's so much more than that, your vocal branding. And again -- Lau: It is. Anne: -- that's something that I think with a lot of times, if a demo producer they're creating a demo for you, they'll ask you what brands do you align with? What things are you passionate about? Because it really makes sense that if you're talking about things that you're passionate about, it comes through in your voice and that becomes a style. I know that there are people, let's say if there's a male that comes to me, that has a very deep gravelly voice, what sorts of things do you think of when you think of a deep gravelly voice? I don't know, Ford trucks or , you know, maybe at Cracker Barrel, I don't know. Or, or it could be John Deere construction equipment, that sort of thing. So what sort of things with a higher pitched, young youthful voice? Well, believe it or not, a lot of times I think of finance. There's a lot of finance lately that is using young millennial youthful voices, because that's the audience they're trying to attract, not just the young voice for that, but just, it could be college spots or anything that that style or that age would be passionate about or thinking about. And a lot of the style and the content that we are shooting for is where they want to advertise to. Are they advertising to a younger audience? Are they advertising to a more mature audience? And so wherever your voice follows suit the best, I think helps to vocally brand your voice as well. You know, even though I have a younger sounding voice, I certainly cannot sound millennial. It's just not necessarily in my authenticity, right, to sound millennial. Even if I try to mimic a millennial, I think ingrained in my voice is too many years of, I don't know, just too many years. Right? So I could try to sound millennial, but will I feel authentic doing it? So for vocal branding, I'm always very much about the authentic part of you. Now, if you get into character, that's something different, right? That's a different voice. And again, that's also a different passion. I know so many people vocally that can bring out so much more personality behind a character than they can with their own voice. It's hard for them to assess their own voice and to be authentic with their own voice or realistic, I should say, because I truly believe there's a lot of people that are exceptional character actors, that they're really good at -- and I don't maybe hiding behind the voice is not a good word for it, but I wanna say they're very good at putting on another character. And sometimes when you say, well, let me just hear you because you are good enough. Your voice is good enough. That's a little more difficult for them. Lau: Oh, no question about it. And I think a lot of folks get really disappointed and let down when they are prototyped quickly or when they are thought of as, oh, you're the grandmother. Oh, you're the -- Anne: You're the mother type. Lau: -- middle-aged mother. Oh, you are the, this you're the that. Well, that's what our industry does. I mean, our industry has to do that for time sake, for expediency, for ease, you know. I can do Shakespeare. I can do a lot of things, but what do I do most of, what do I do best? What do I do easiest? What's the easiest thing for me to deliver? That's important for you to really identify that and recognize that and understand that you get -- it's not the only thing you'll get. You may get something outside of that, for sure. But if you can make the job of the producer, casting a lot easier, then you wanna do that. And you wanna listen to your audience, how they're seeing you or in this case, how they're hearing you. How do they hear you? I remember too, I got a number of times through the years, even when I was much younger, Anne, even when I was in my 20's, I was starting to get audiences say to me, oh yeah, you're like the nanny. You're like the Jewish, you know, mom, you're the Jewish mom, aren't you? And I was offended. Here I was a conservatory actress. I wasn't married. I had no children. I, I was like, all right, I guess so. I thought it was almost like a slight to me. It was almost like a backwards insult of saying, is that all you hear me as? Is that really what is all has come down to? Well, since then, I've learned that that level of familiarity, that level of maternal, maternalistic quality, that level of ethnic appeal is very gratifying for a lot of people, very gratifying, and very gratifying for me too, as an actor. And so I adopted that. I love that. I, I embrace that. But then I know I could do something totally different at another time. It doesn't really limit me, not really. It just expands the level of work that I can get, because that's what I get known for. See? Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad that you said that. And I think that there are people who hear your vocal brand as a type. I mean, I just had a student who had a really deep gravelly voice and I said, oh, we're gonna do a Kubota spot, 'cause I had -- construction equipment. He goes that's so funny because I work in it and I have no idea about construction equipment. I said, yeah. But it's something that it's associated with that type of work, and you sound great at it. And as long as you're okay with it, you know, and you can be authentic about it, and it doesn't mean you have to go out and run a piece of equipment to be authentic about it. You just have to be authentic about the message and what you're saying. And so, yeah. I'm so glad that you said that because there are perceived, you know, you sound like this type. And for me I've like, okay, you've got the professional educator because you've got that clear articulate voice. Well, I can't help -- I -- it's a clear articulate voice. And I would love to have that raspy kind of a demure kind of other voice, but it doesn't physically happen for me. So I said, okay, I'm going to accept that. And you know, if I get hired for that, of course, that's fantastic, right? But it doesn't stop me from learning other genres. It doesn't stop me from trying to vocally place my voice and do different things to increase my acting ability and my vocal ability. So it's just something, if you embrace it and then just move forward, continuing to broaden and expand your styles. I think that's, that's a wonderful thing. Lau: Yeah, it reminds me of when someone says, oh my God, you, you look like my best friend. You look like my aunt, you look like this one I know. That used to annoy me. That used to say, oh, it's like, I'm not my own identity. I'm not my own person. I look like someone everyone knows. And then I realized that's a really great thing because they already feel close to me. They feel familiar to me. They feel like they know me. Anne: What a great way to analyze that because that's the same thing with your voice. Right? So somebody is kind of saying, oh you are that voice. Well then that's great. Because they're familiar with it. They feel comfortable with it. That's a wonderful way to look at it. Lau: That's exactly it, exactly it. So don't look at is anything is limiting you. Look at it as expansion, your brand, your vocal, your visual, your inner, your outer. I think the sky is the limit, but do understand how in audience, there's like a truism, a community truism that you get in a film when you're watching a great film or when you're listening to great music. There's a community understanding of familiarity or greatness or fitting in a particular role. And it's important to just pay attention to that. So you're red, you're red. Anne: Yeah, there you go. And I can also be blue. So there you go. Lau: And you can be blue. Anne: So branding, guys, it's not something you can do overnight. Remember, it definitely helps when you have someone else, a trusted coach, a trusted circle of friends and community that can help you to understand how you are perceived. And also I think it takes a lot on your part to project what it is that you want to be perceived in an authentic manner, of course. That's gonna be your start to branding. Just know that it doesn't typically happen overnight and that you can evolve and change with it. And I think that's a wonderful thing. Lau: And it can be a load of fun. And you can learn an awful lot through the years of shifting your brand, and changing your brand, and what your perceived brand is, and really kind of just opening up and accepting the flow of what the audience and the universe is giving to you. Anne: Yeah. I would never disagree to being able to discover more about myself and learn more about myself in order to help put out a brand. So it's all good. It's all good, BOSSes. Well, thank you, Lau. What a great conversation. Lau: My pleasure, as always. Anne: Always a pleasure to have you. I'm going to give a big shout out to ipDTL, our sponsor. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Also for your voices out there, 100voiceswhocare.org. You can use your voice to make a difference. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. BOSSes, it's been amazing, and Lau, it's been amazing having you again. And we will all see you next week. Lau: See you next week. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Build a circle that will support, motivate, and promote your inner joy, strength & courage. Anne & Lau are breaking down fear to build up your confidence. Your confidence level can make or break your biz, but it all starts from within. Do you really want success? Are you ready to put in the work to achieve your dreams? Instead of asking coaches, peers, and friends, you have to ask yourself and answer with honesty. Creating goals that feel insurmountable is what will end your business before you begin. But with the right tools & wisdom from your favorite business superheroes, we know you can tackle any task! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast in the business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to welcome back to the show special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Lau, how are you today? Lau: Fabulous. Fabulous. Thank you, Anne. It's great to be back. Anne: Yeah, I am excited about our series, so excited. Lau: Me too. Anne: And the last couple of series we've were learning more and more about you. And I wanted to kind of bring into the mold a little bit about when I first started back in, oh God, this is so long ago, but not quite as long -- I think you've been in the business longer than me but -- Lau: I have. Anne: I remember distinctly, I remember distinctly when I started, I didn't come from a creative background. You know, I didn't have a job and a creative background. Well, everything can be a creative field I think if you make it a creative field, but it wasn't distinctly a creative field of voiceover. So I remember when I gave up my cushy job, my cushy corporate job or cushy corporate job in education, I was scared. I was really scared about starting a full time job in voiceover. And I was really a little bit timid and lacked a little bit of confidence because I had never embarked on something. I had never been an entrepreneur and started my own business. So, and I know that a lot of people, this is somewhat intimidating to them. So I thought we could talk about the topic of confidence, because I truly believe that the evolution of my confidence and how I manifested it helped me to really get through the first stumbling blocks and hard times. And not that there aren't hard times now, but I feel like confidence really plays a big part in how well we get through events that may or may not be everyday roses. Lau: Yeah, I'm right there with you. I think it's the bedrock of what we do as performers. I mean, if you put aside right now, the idea that you're an entrepreneur, you're a BOSS, you, you head up your own company, whether you're a DBA, an LLC, or whatever those letters are after your name, it's your own deal. It's your own shindig. But put that aside for a second, just as a person, as a human being -- we're performers and our job is to, to some degree become vulnerable, to open up to a world, something inside of us and reveal something. And how do we do that? Right? How do we get to that? How do we have that confidence to be able to expose ourself in that way and then be able to reel it in? So I think, think, yes, I think confidence is really, really just a foundation of where we start from and where we're working from and what helps define us as the, the superheroes that we are asked to become every day. Anne: And I was even talking just business-wise, like, how do I even do this thing? And you brought in the whole other aspect of performance that, yeah, we do have to show ourselves to be vulnerable. We have to really be able to bring ourselves to the copy. And a lot of times that means exposing ourselves and that is sometimes very uncomfortable for people, especially if they're not used to doing it. And so I just remember so many self-doubts flooding my brain. And I didn't have anybody to talk to 'cause I didn't know anybody that had really done what I was doing in my immediate circle. As a matter of fact, most people, sometimes my parents too, would be like -- well, my mother would be like, honey, when are you gonna get a real job? And bless her, I love her. But she would say, well, you know, when are you gonna get? And, and I'm like, but Mom, I. Lau: . Right. Right. Anne: I'm an entrepreneur, Mom. And it was funny because it took her a while before she finally, you know, understood what it was that I was doing. And so I think first of all, we have to assess the current situation that we're in, and we have to actually acknowledge that I think fear could be something that is contributing to our lack of confidence. I think that's step number one. What are your thoughts? Lau: I'm with you all the way. I think that fear is, is a huge factor. And I often talk to my clients about this, is that there's two really big obstacles that can get in our way. One is fear and one is focus, and the two of them together can be powerhouse if used wisely because the truth is we're never gonna not feel fear. That's like a double negative. But that's just, you know, we're human beings. We're, we're animalistic in a survivalist kind of way. We're built to have instinct about things, which is important. We have to listen to our inner voice as well as our outer voice. We have to pay attention when we feel there's danger or something that's not going to work for us. Right? So don't put that inner fear factor voice away, but it's really like feeling the fear, but then doing it anyway, if that's a calculated risk, if that's a risk worth taking for you, how do I manage that? I always feel like I can never really control anything as much as I would love to. I can't. I have to be able to manage the difficulties and the conflicts and the obstructions and all that stuff that gets thrown in our path. But if we think about it as oh, but I have to control my fear, I shouldn't be feeling fear -- that's wrong. I think then we're already off on the wrong path. We have to accept the fact that we're built to feel fear. You know, even our breathing as speakers, we understand what fight or flight breathing is. You know, if we go into our upper thoracic chest cavity, if we go into the clavicular area of our throat, we know we're in more of a stress fight or flight mode. Right? And it's not great for speaking, but it's meant for other occasions that will kind of save us and save our lives. Anne: Right. Right. Lau: So you are right, Anne. I think fear is important. It's necessary, but a lot of people have a negative connotation of fear and how to manage the fear. Anne: I think if you don't feel fear, then you are not growing. Lau: Yeah, and, and like, do we even care about it? Anne: Right. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I think if you're not feeling fear, then you're not maybe pushing yourself to where I think you could be. And I think that that is something that if you can take that fear and not fear the fear but yet figure out a way to push through the fear and roll with the fear and know that it's normal and know that it's normal even for veterans like us I think that have been in the business for a long time. I still feel fear as a matter of fact, quite a bit. And I've grown to the point where I know that if I don't feel fear, that I'm not pushing myself. And I just, for me, I think to be the best entrepreneur and the best that I can be, I need to be able to feel that and push through it. But it doesn't mean that it makes it any easier sometimes. Lau: No, it doesn't, but fear can be fun. Remember the show that used to be on, Fear Factor. Anne: Yeah. Right, right. Lau: That a huge, massive audience. Like why are we so fascinated with seeing people in fear? Why is the horror genre in film or in audiobooks so massive, a billion dollar industry? Because there's a catharsis that we need as human beings that we live through that we learn, at least have the potential to learn about morality about what to do, what not to do, about how to protect ourselves, about how to build a better situation for ourselves. It's fun. And it's exciting. And there's a little, you know, frisson that comes in the back of the neck. But at the end of the day, we wanna walk out and we wanna say, hey, I kind of discovered something here. I learned something about myself or about my surroundings. And the fear was like a little bit of a, a sign saying, pay, pay attention. You know, just, just look at the details of what's happening here. And fear in a way is care. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. That's a really good point. Lau: Like I care when I feel fear. Right? Anne: Yeah. Absolutely. Lau: So we have to be kind of fearless about fear. Anne: And so, you know, let's talk about what are the things that are, I think common fears when we become entrepreneurs. I'll, I'll start with, I fear that I'm not going to be able to make it or make any money and I will be, I will fail. So therefore it becomes that thought that I won't be good enough. I won't be able to make money and I'll have to go back to the corporate world and I'll fail. And that was my biggest fear in the beginning. And it was a very like blanket, like thought. And it was a very big thought that like, oh no, it will never work. I will fail. And then I'll have to go back. And that was looking at it at a, on a very large scale. I think one of the things that helped me to kind of get through that is to start to look at things in a smaller light and have little steps that maybe I could feel that I wouldn't fail, but that was number one, the fear that the whole thing wouldn't work, and it wasn't just, oh, I won't be good enough. It'll just be like the whole thing won't work. I don't know anything about starting a business. I haven't researched it really. I've never done it before. And I don't have anybody in my immediate circle that has started a business. So where do I go for help? So there was all these unknown questions. That was my -- what about you when you first started? Lau: That's a good one. Actually. That's a hard one to top; that fear of failure in is like big. I think your engineer needs to do a, some, some like good trivia music right now. Just like some Jeopardy music right now. Anne: Yeah. Right? Lau: See if I could top that one. Okay. Here's one. The fear of spending money, IE the fear of losing money. Anne: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Lau: Right. Without an ROI that's secure, if there is such a thing without knowing what my return really will be, without knowing if I'll ever get work, I'm scared to spend money. I'm scared to go broke. I'm scared to waste money. That's a big one, right? Anne: That's a very common fear I think for a lot of people just getting into the industry, it's their, they like, I don't have money to invest, but I need to get work. And it's that which came first. Right? Lau: Right. Anne: And so thankfully I think anybody that goes into this full or, or even part-time needs to, first of all, make sure they have a little bit of a financial cushion so that they can invest the money. Just knowing I didn't quit my corporate job completely blind. I did understand that I would need to invest money. And so I think that securing that knowledge that you have money to invest in your career is one thing. And that's a big thing. And that even now, as I have been in the industry for more than 15 years to continually invest in my company, because now that I have seven to eight people right now that work for me, that was a big thing, right? To be able to like, oh my God, I'm gonna pay someone, and do I have the extra money to pay someone? And so BOSSes, what's really cool about that comparison is that going from an independent, I work for myself, I'm going out to make money, and to grow to a point where you're now gonna hire an assistant that can help you because you're grown to the point so that you can continue to do what it is that you love and have other people that can do the things that maybe you don't love so much, or that you're not as good at. And so that whole first decision like, oh my gosh, do I have the money to hire someone and to spend and to invest? That's a big fear as well. And I think what gave me confidence was I did it small steps at a time. And I think that's one thing for you, BOSSes, is to think about it. What are the small steps they're gonna take you to get you to your goal and what are the achievable steps that will then give you confidence, right, to continue moving forward? Lau; Right. And, Anne, I wanna piggyback on that point , which is so necessary. It's like bottom line again, bedrock principle what you're talking about here is mindset, mindset, mindset over your matter. You really have to power up that mindset when it comes to investment and say, am I coming from a mindset of poverty or am I coming from a mindset of wealth? And I'm not only talking about physical money. I'm also talking about abundance, surplus, glass half full. Am I a hopeful positive, I'm gonna take that lemon and make it into lemonade? That to me is wealth, wealth of knowledge, wealth of spirit, wealth of fun and risk taking. So you have to be honest with yourself I think, Anne, and say, am I really in a position to do this? Because my mindset needs to be able to open up to the possibilities of success. Like I, I always say to my clients be careful what you wish for. You may get it. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: Right? Because success is difficult. It's hard. It holds you to a very high level of responsibility and industry standard and timeline and everything. Success isn't easy. Success is a challenge. Right? Anne: And there's a fear of success as well. That is absolutely a thing. Lau: Ooh, that's your number three, I think, right? Anne: Yeah. Fear of success. That's number -- and then wanting to continue and continue to grow. And I think it's a cycle. Every step, as you move up really becomes, I'm afraid. like acknowledging the fear, and then breaking it up maybe into smaller chunks. How can I get from this level to this level? And then breaking that up into small steps and then being able to manifest come from that place of abundance, and just push through until that small step is achieved. That will give you the conference to move up to the next step. Lau: Absolutely. Anne: And help you to manifest the next step. And I think that that might be a, a great process for people to work through the fear and build their confidence in order to grow their business. Lau: Yeah. And yeah, I do think you have to be as honest with yourself as possible and your crew around you, your coaches, your directors, whoever you're working with, even your professional accountability buddies in saying, do I really want success? Or do I like the idea of success? Because the reality is a job, it's work, it's time. It's wonderful, but it's work. So do I really want to put in what I need to put in to work or do I have self sabotaging patterns where every time I start getting close to something that's progressive and good, I put something in the way of it to wall it off? Which I see an awful lot of people doing, whether it's, I can't make that timeframe. Anne: I see that on social media. Lau: I'm busy with something else. Yeah. yeah. And you think, well, wait a second, isn't this your goal? Isn't this what you wanna be doing? Yes. As long as it's within my timeframe, within my structure, my context and not really realizing that you're really have to be more client centered, more audience centered, more producer centered. It's not about you in your world. It's really about what you're doing for the client. And so the self sabotage can start to take over. That's common. Anne: Yeah. That's I think a, a big thing. And I do see that on social media where there'll be forums and people will be talking about, well, how do I get work? Or how do you find success in this? And you know, well, I just can't because of this. I can't because of that. I can't because of, and so, you know, again, it's that sort of thing where you're, you're kind of putting all the things that you can't do in front of things that you can do to grow and to move up. And I think, again, it's got to start with you being honest and taking a real honest look at yourself and finding out if you're willing to do the work. You know, there's so many people, and I know you've run into this as well, Lau, that say, do I have what it takes? Do I have what it takes to make it? Lau: Right. Anne: So there's a good question, Lau. What is your answer to the people who will ask you that? Do I have what it takes? Lau: I always say, you know, when that type of question comes up, I always feel immediately, my knee jerk reaction is I think you're asking the wrong question, to be honest with you. I think a more effective question to ask would be, am I willing to set up a realistic work structure for myself, then I can adhere to on a time management basis and really hold myself accountable to that. Am I willing to do that? Because I always feel like when I went to grad school, I was in a accepted to a three year conservatory full program. And I was nervous about it, nervous, fearful, a little scared. I asked one of my dear friends who had come out of a program. I said, what do I expect? What should I be looking for? He said, listen, simple as this, what you put into it is what you're gonna get out of it. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And I said, what a brilliant answer. I've used that for years and years, because it's an individual journey. It's an individual's path. I can't predict your level of success. I can't predict who's going to perceive you as a incredible talent. I can't even predict what kind of genre you're gonna go into, honestly. I can give you my, my advice and that's what I can do. but you have to be honest with yourself and say, do I want this? Am I willing to set up a work schedule for myself? Can I invest in this? Am I willing to not be an ego and set up professionals who know a lot more than I do surrounding me to teach me? I mean, am I willing to do this? And then I can get closer to the answer to that question. Anne: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's so many people that think it takes like, well, do I have the voice for it? And honestly, I always try to tell people it's about so much more than just your voice. It's really about your connection and the ability to bring yourself to the words and be able to connect. And I believe that if you have the ability to connect with people on a day to day basis, you have the basis for what it takes to do voiceover, because everybody's looking for authenticity. And I think if you're not at the point in your journey where you can bring authenticity to your craft, then that might be the question to ask. It's not, do I have the voice, but do I have the courage to expose myself and be authentic through the art? And once I am, then does that bring me the joy that will bring the passion, the emotion to the craft, which I think is what is truly the connection with people and what people respond to. I'm gonna say the physical aspects of the voice in this whole career, like, will you be successful, I think there's a very small percentage of us -- and again, it's very subjective, right? That have a voice that has the physical characteristics that are like, oh my goodness, like the majority of people will find that beautiful. Very few. There's a lot of us out here though that have a great ability to connect with people. And that almost means more because if you have a beautiful voice and you're not able to connect with authenticity, that is only gonna buy you a certain level of success, I believe. Lau: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, I think we just came up with your next episode, and that is like all the wrong questions to ask. Anne: Yeah. Right? Lau: When you start voiceover, there's really a lot -- I don't even like to use the word wrong. It's not that it's wrong. It's that it's not appropriate at the time to ask that kind of question. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Until you've really been in it for a while. Like a question like coming into it, how much money can I make doing this? It's not an appropriate or effective question to answer at the beginning stages of a career. It just, it just isn't. So that's your next episode, I think, that's the next one. Anne: Well, I, what I was hoping with that explanation was to also give people a boost of confidence so that it does help. I mean, this whole episode is about how to build your confidence up and how to overcome the fear. And I, I really believe that if you understand that about this industry and understand that about this career, again, it's so much more than just that voice, then it becomes, do you have the courage to build a business? Do you have the courage to do the work? And again, that I think if you break it down into the small steps and that's about my only solution for it is to really maybe write your goals down, which I think is a phenomenal way to really help you break down this fear, right, and give yourself confidence. And I also think, and, and I believe that we talked about this before, or I must have talked about it 100 times before writing down those small accomplishments can really mean the world to giving yourself more confidence to continue forward. And as well as the fact that you wrote it down, right, gives you a benchmark. So again, you have to grow step by step moving forward and moving more forward. How do you know if you don't compare it to where you've been? Right? You don't have a benchmark. Lau: So exactly. There's just no context for it in time, in your timeline of your life and also of your career that you're in the middle of. I, I'm also gonna add to that and say, build your circle. I won't even say network. I'll just say circle because it could be family. It could be friends. It could be whoever it could be pets. It could be anyone or anything that helps promote your inner strength, your inner joy and your courage, the word you used earlier. I think is a really smart and frightening word to a lot of people. Like, how do I get courageous? How do I get brave? How, how do I become the superhero? Well, it's just like little moments, little detailed steps you take every day. It isn't these big, massive moves of saving the world. It's like, if you're helping the environment, how do I save the world? I can't save the world. Well, just pick up the can. Anne: Well, exactly. Lau: You know, just pick up a bottle. Put it in here. Anne: Exactly. Take the small step. . Lau: That's all you have to do. Anne: That's such a wonderful example because honestly, if it becomes this all encompassing, overwhelming thing, you've quit before you've even started. Lau: Right, I can't do that. Anne: If you make it so large and so big, and it's like, oh my God, I can't possibly like, if you're beginning, you're beginning to say, well, I didn't make any money this week. And that is what deters you from, you know, the entire career, then -- Lau: Then you quit. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: You've already quit. Anne: You've already quit. Lau: I got one more to throw in the mix, 'cause I hear this a lot. Especially from my crowd that's over 40, fear of technology. Very scary to a lot of people who are not digital natives. They didn't grow up on computers. They didn't grow up using a microphone. They didn't grow up on a video screen. They just didn't, right? I'm in that generation. I'm generation X. We didn't grow up that way. We learned, I mean, I didn't learn it. It was till I was in my 30's, like how to even be on a computer, you know, we didn't have cell phones. So that fear of technology I think can stop a lot of people's progress, and it's important that if you recognize you have the fear, again, it's okay to have the fear it's, it's natural. It's normal. Just how do I manage the fear? Well, one way I could manage the fear, I could delegate some tasks to some of my circle that's around me that I find overwhelming or I find scary. It could be something like, help me choose a microphone or help me, help me learn some new apps on my computer or help me whatever. And also delegating actual tasks to someone else. Like you have an engineer you hire, I have an engineer I hire, I mean that's okay once you have enough money in the pot to hire people and have them do a job that you're not proficient at, you don't have the time for, you don't want to be doing whatever. It's like give yourself permission to delegate. Anne: One of the biggest confidence builders I've found myself as I've grown through the years. Is that money in the pot thing right? So if you can put together a savings account and as you make money, right? Put some in. I mean, that sounds like my mom and dad, like from just, we save a penny. Right? But having money in the pot will help you have confidence so that when there is a low period or maybe you don't get a job for a week or two or a month, that will give you the confidence to still continue on and move forward, and also give you the confidence to help reinvest that money someplace else. The bigger that savings account is, I'll tell you once I got my savings account to a certain level, I was bold as yeah. Anything good. Lau: Yes, yes, yes. Anne: Because I was like, okay, this is okay. I was bold in everything bold in how I was gonna grow my business, bold in, you know, oh, maybe I'll try this now. Right? I was bold to make different steps. And it really changed the way that I ran my business, and it was exhilarating to me. And that gave me confidence like nothing else. I'm not gonna say money is the only thing that gives you confidence, but in this kind of an industry where you have a lot of highs and a lot of lows and a lot of fears, and a lot of the fear I think is fear of failure. And for me, because I went full time, I wanted to contribute to the household expenses, right? This was not just something that I could just enjoy for the rest of my life. I wasn't retiring. I needed to make money to pay the mortgage. And so money for me there gave me a lot of confidence. So I think BOSSes, take tiny steps to understand that there is fear. Take those tiny steps, write down those goals, celebrate those milestones, generate that confidence, and continue to grow and be BOSSes. Right? Lau: I love it. We'll call that VO bucks. Put away your VO bucks, right? Anne: Your VO bucks. I love it. Lau: VO bucks. And when someone says to you, Anne, but honestly I'm telling you honestly, Anne, I don't have the money. I can't buy a new microphone. You say, well, wait a second, wait a second. This is where the financial advisor and you start popping out and you say, wait a second. Didn't you go to the movies last weekend? Did you eat out a couple times this week? Anne: Did you buy that Starbucks? Lau: yes. Just, just be willing to sacrifice that. Do the math on, on that. Put it towards the microphone or whatever you need. And then tell me later, wow. I was able to reprioritize, redirect my VO bucks, and I somehow magically found the money. I found it. Anne: Yeah, hey, I got a part-time job as a office assistant and my mother was like, here, I came out of my six figure, you know, corporate job. And then I'm like, well I'm an office assistant, and I would never downplay any of that. But it was one of those things I did part-time while I was building up the business so that I could have the money and not feel horribly guilty. Right? That I wasn't contributing. And I was building up the business. So giving me confidence, giving me the money to reinvest. BOSSes, you can do it. We've got the faith in you. so. Lau: Everyone is the superhero at the end of the day, Anne, everyone has those powers. Anne: Business superpowers. So awesome episode. Thank you so much, Lau. It's been so much fun. Lau: So much fun. Anne: And, and I am going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also I want to let you know about 100voiceswhocare.org. You can use your voice to make an immediate difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. So find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Casting is global, digital, and massive. This week, Anne & Lau lead Bosses through the complicated world of casting. Resiliency & timing are key for booking that dream gig. Lau teaches us that not all rejections mean no. They often mean not right now. Anne shows us that we are every aspect of our business and that marketing well enough to get in front of voice seekers is part of your job, whether you like it or not! If you're feeling overwhelmed and defeated during the casting process, tune in for some (super) powerful advice… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to bring back to the show special guest co-host Lau Lapides and Business Superpowers. Yay. Hey Lau. How's it going today? Lau: Awesome, Anne. So good to be with you. Love being with you. Anne: I'm so excited for this new series and actually, because you do a lot of casting, and I also do casting as well. I thought it would be a great episode to talk about casting because casting over the years, I'm sure, has evolved and changed. And a lot of times my students wanna know, well, what does it take to get in front of a casting director and impress them so that they get hired? Lau: Sure, it's a biggie. Anne: Who better to ask, Lau than someone that's been doing it for many, many years. Right? So let's talk about like, how has casting changed over the years? Lau: Mm that's a loaded question. I love the theme. I have to tell you, I love the superpower theme because innately, I think for actors, voice actors, there's this feeling of helplessness, of powerlessness, of waiting for a job or waiting for someone to like me. Right? You know, what did I do wrong? Why didn't they cast me? Why didn't they like me? And I love the theme of this show that you chose, because it's all about finding your inner power. Like what ignites us, what empowers us when we get to the casting, when we get to the agency, when we get to the hiring power, hiring people, how do we ignite our own power inside of us? So I love that. I love that. Okay. So it's a hard question to answer in the sense that it's so unique to each person. Every individual is a very, very unique experience throughout their performance life. But you know, I can give you a few tips along the way, in terms of, let's say you're starting out and you're early to market, and you're coming in, you're saying, huh, how do I get people knowing my name and hearing my voice? Well, for casting, I'll tell you one of the things that we're always looking for are people that are submitting a lot. They're really marketing themselves well, and they're submitting a lot, and they're unafraid to submit and resubmit because I think it's a truism in the industry that you're not gonna book the first job. You may not even book the second or third job or the 50th job. So what do we do? We have to have that tenacity, that inner power within us to say, it's okay. I can submit until the cows come home. And maybe, maybe they just don't need my value right now. So I'm not looking at this as a rejection. I'm looking at this as not a no, but a not now. Anne: Right? I love that. You know what, you're the first person that I've ever heard say that, the tenacity, submit, submit, submit, because I think for a lot of talent, they get discouraged, right? They're either like, oh my gosh, I've submitted. I haven't booked anything. And then they get down on themselves. And you're the first casting director that I've heard actually say be tenacious, submit, submit, submit. And actually, you know, I totally agree, because I feel like your name will become known as well to the casting directors. And at some point, I would imagine if you're continually submitting, either at some point, somebody's going to stop and give you feedback, if they feel it's necessary. And also it's just kind of a way to keep yourself top of mind, which is like any good marketing, is to keep yourself top of mind with a casting director. So I wanted to stop and say, thank you for saying that, because I'm sure that you just gave these BOSSes a whole lot more reason to just continue on, and be positive, and just submit, submit. So thank you for that. Love it. Yeah. Lau: Of course. That was my pleasure. And BOSSes listening in, I'm telling you, there are not enough places in the world and your lifetime isn't long enough to submit to every place you could be submitting to. So it's not about waiting for 5, 10, 15, 20 sources. It's about pasting. Like it's global, we're in a global industry now. You wanna cover the globe. So you don't wanna go from local. You don't wanna do regional. You don't even wanna keep it national. You wanna go international. So you wanna think about as you work with your coaches, as you work with your trainers, as you work with Anne, you wanna think about, boy, here's where I am in this market, but how am I viewed in that market? And then how am I viewed in this market? And it becomes an endless journey of how can I get in front of casting and representation that can represent me for that particular genre and that particular brand, which may change, which very well may change. Anne: Now, let me play devil's advocate here from the voice talent perspective and say, how do I find different casting directors that cast in different genres or different places? Is that something that's easily researched? Lau: Well, yes and no. In the sense that nothing is easy But everything's at our fingertips now. Anne: Right, right. Lau: We know this, everything is at our fingertips. So what you need, and I'm like preaching to the choir on this one, but what the BOSSes need is they need a great time management schedule. They need to be honest about what are they committing? I always say what you put in is what you're going to get out of it for your career. Am I putting in an hour, a day, am I putting in 15 hours a day? I'm most likely gonna get more out of it if I'm putting in more time. And the time needs to be very focused time, very incisive time. I need to know exactly, like how does an actor think I need to have purpose. I need to have an objective. I can't just generically go in and hope for work. I have to really, really target in. So let's say, say, I'm looking for casting directors. I know, based on my studio, I know one of the ways you can be seen live and virtually, virtually and live is to do showcases. And showcases are a fascinating event. We produce them and a lot of others produce them as well. And you get to go live in person, whether you're walking into a room or whether you're walking into a Zoom room, you get to meet people. There's nothing better than being in front of a casting director or an agent or a producer and saying, hi, I'm live. This is who I am. This is what I do. I'm gonna do it for you right now. This is a great option to get in front of as many casting people and reps, if you're looking for reps, as possible. A lot of people are afraid of it and they shouldn't be. Anne: Well, and I'm gonna just kind of plug my VO Peeps group. I mean, we do have workouts with casting directors and talent agents. And if you are afraid thinking that you're not ready to be seen or to be showcased, do the work to get yourself performance-wise where you feel confident. Because it's never a guarantee if you're performing in front of a casting director. And I always have to say that. Like, there is no guarantee you'll get work if you come to my workshop that is hosted by me and I have a talent agent or a casting director, but what a great opportunity to kind of showcase your talents. And so again, there's never any guarantee that you'll get work, but it's an opportunity for you to get in front of these people live in a Zoom room for the VO Peeps cases anyways, and then live also with -- Lau has showcases. And I know there's other casting directors as well that do those showcases, and that's a great opportunity to get seen and heard. Lau: It is. And it also will satisfy you. Like if you're doing the Peeps, you're doing the workout, it satisfies that live actor forum in you, where you wanna get some feedback. You wanna meet someone, you wanna talk about what you do. You wanna have the interaction of the room. I mean, that's something we just can't get alone in our studio or alone in our booth. We just can't capture it the way we can live. So I, I do think that's one, really important way where you're in a, either a workout or a casting workshop or a showcase, whatever that is. I would put that right into your time management. I also would work with either Anne, your coach, your trainer to really get together the marketing list you wanna get together of casting directors and of agencies that you can be target marketing. I think that's very important and a lot of talent miss that. I think gone are the days of opening up the phone book. We don't really use the phone book that often anymore. Anne: Well, wait, but wait, the Voiceover Resource Guide is coming back. I have to just do a plug for that because if you -- do you remember -- you've been casting direct for a while. You remember the Voiceover Resource Guide, the printed book? Lau: Yes. Anne: That used to be the only thing that basically gave you information for area coaches, area studios and casting directors, and that is making a comeback. And so it, it is in print and also online. So that's a great resource, and BOSSes, I'll be put in that link in our show notes and also any resources, Lau, that are online that you can share with BOSSes, I'll put that as well in the show notes. So you guys can check that out, but continue on Lau about how talent can get in front of first of all, find them, get in front of, and then how can we make a good impression? Like I think that's really what everybody wants to know. Lau: It is. It is, it is. And, and one more I wanna throw in the mix, Anne, and that is, I want you -- not you I want everyone listening in to think about every person that you meet or get in front of or have email contact with is a prospect. So they are a potential casting director. Anne: Yeah. Lau: They don't call themselves that that's not their title and they wouldn't even know what it is if you ask them, but they're the hiring person. They're the decision maker. They're the person who maybe owns their own business and needs vocal talent, doesn't know that they need them. So as you have your business, you have to think, wow, I am gonna look at my suspects and I'm gonna prospect them. And how do I prospect them? I'm gonna go after every organization, every group that I possibly can, that fits my interest of where my voice is. So for instance, I may go after the women's groups. There's a lot of professional women's groups out there that are wonderful, that would love to know, women and men, that would love to know your voices there, to promote their companies, to promote their products and services, to promote their organizations. A lot of them don't even have voiceovers to do that, right? Why not hit them up? They could be your casting director. What about your local chamber of commerce? What about your BNIs? Right? All of those, those are international professional clubs that you can go into and be in front of 10, 20, 50, 100 people at a time that are great prospects for you to then create what I call the rapport before the relationship. The two R's you have to remember when you're trying to get in front of anyone who's doing casting or hiring is, hey, I have to connect with you. I have to have some sort of authentic connection that you're interested in me and I'm interested in you. And then we have to build a relationship together over time. So it's really working in that sphere of understanding that casting is now global. It's now massive. And yes, you have casting directors proper in each city, in each state, but then you have all these businesses that may very well hire you once they know that you're there. Anne: Sure, sure, sure. And you know, I love that you've brought the term casting agent global now. It's really anybody that has a need for your services and that can hire you. And yes, there are traditional casting agents title only that belong to in studios typically. Right? And their job is to cast voice talent all day. And I like that you created a global job for anybody that hires you for your voice. And that's very true. The one thing I think that, BOSSes, you need to take into consideration is the amount of education necessary to connect and find the need for the job. Right? Because a lot of times we're auditioning, we're auditioning, we're auditioning. We're not getting any feedback. We're not getting any gigs. And we turn it all on our own performance. And I speak on this all the time, because I know that mentality. I have many students that talk about it all the time, and they're like, I don't think I belong in this industry anymore because I'm not getting any work. A lot of time, that work depends on the market. It depends on if there is a need at the time for your voice. And that is something that I think we forget as voice talent. We forget that a lot of it is timing based, right? A company may absolutely love your voice for their product, but if they don't have a campaign or they don't have something ready yet to release, they can't hire somebody. And so you just may be like, I'm submitting, submitting, submitting. And maybe just at that point, right, you might be marketing to them, they just don't need your voice yet. And that's when you're doing that kind of marketing and people are like, well, nobody's responding to me. I'm not getting any feedback to my marketing. Well, that may just be a timing issue. That's all it is. So don't always go to the place where, oh no, they didn't like my voice. Lau: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, it's a business where we have to personalize everything but we can't take anything personal. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Lau: We just have to understand the difference between personalizing your work and me, Lau, feeling like you hit me, you hit me. Well, I have to be careful of that because then I'll be hit all day long, and it won't be about my value. It'll be about me personally, as you gotta keep it to your value. And I do think, Anne, that there's two factors as I look at the years and years of working with talent and connecting them and auditioning them and all that, two very big areas that are common that are the obstacles, the walls that people have a tough time getting through; identified them as focus and fear. Those are typically the two game stoppers for you that I'm scared. I'm terrified. I don't wanna be rejected. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not good enough. That's the fear factor. And then the focus of like, okay, do I understand my schedule? Do I know what I can authentically commit? Am I really putting in the time and energy I need to, to get the ROI that I'm looking for? And oftentimes folks are not doing it. If they're gonna be really honest and transparent, they're not putting in the time and effort that an entrepreneur that owns their own business really needs to put in, right? Anne: So are you talking now? Are they not doing enough auditions or are they not doing enough work to prepare their performance so that they can get hired or both? Lau: It could be all of the above. When we started the conversation, we were talking about casting. And so for looking at finding and prospecting my own casting opportunities, well, how do I do that? I have to put X amount of time into my work week in order to do that. And there was one more I wanted to hit too, Anne, and that was getting my lists together. And if you're connected to great people like Anne, who may be able to help you with, who are the casting directors, and the casting departments, and the agencies proper in the nation that you can then be going, okay, I gotta send, send, send, send, send, I'm gonna Google. I'm gonna get online. I'm gonna look at doing all of that. And it is a lot of work. It's a lot of work. Anne: It is, it is. Lau: But it's work we have to do in marketing efforts to understand who is hiring, who is submitting, and who is gone now because after COVID, a lot of businesses unfortunately went down or merged and changed. Anne: Yeah. And one thing I wanna point out BOSSes is that we have had a couple of different episodes on email marketing and just make sure if you are submitting or sending information out that you're abiding by rules and regulations so that you're not considered as spamming. And so be careful with that. It's one of the reasons -- and shameless plug, one of the reasons that I created the VO BOSS Blast is that we can market to a list that has already given us permission of casting directors and production companies that have said, yes, it's okay for us to market to. So that is something you guys can take a look at as well as doing your own research. And then it becomes a marketing challenge, right? How are you going to get in front of these people? And again, then it becomes that timing issue. But as Lau stated, you really do have to put in the effort. And I know how many people, they got into this industry thinking it's gonna be all fun and performance in the studio. Well, believe it or not, a lot of the time really isn't until you get that job, right? You've got to get the job. And then once you've got the job, you can't anticipate that that job will be there forever. You have to continually mine for new prospects and getting in front of new people that can cast you and hire you. So Lau, are there differences over the years in terms of what people are looking for today versus maybe 20 years ago? Let's talk about the difference in the types of voices they're looking for. Lau: Yeah. Well, there's been, I know, you know, this Anna huge swing in diversity casting and rightly so. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: That's been a long time coming. And so we've seen that both on camera and voiceover. Anne: Yeah. And I'm so thankful for that honestly. It's just really brought, I mean, these past years, and it's not to where we need it yet, but I'll tell you what. I've really been enjoying hearing and watching and seeing all the diversity. It's just been amazing. And I just wanted to keep continuing, so. Lau: Absolutely. I'm right there with you and it's been happening now -- Anne: It's been wonderful. Lau: -- solidly -- yeah -- for about three years or so, maybe a little bit longer, which is exciting. And now we have to look at, okay, vocal actors, if you're not in that diversity casting pool, that's okay. You have your value and now you have to do the work to say, how do I prospect the right clients, the right customers, the right casting who's going to be interested in what I'm doing and what my sound is? And, you know, be honest, like, are you a proactive person or are you more of a reactive person? And both are just fine. But one of the common denominators of successful entrepreneurs is that they're proactive, in that we're willing to go out and take action and take a lot of action and do it consistently for a long time, whether we get a return on it or not. I mean, that's just kind of the reality. We can't always depend on someone else doing it for us, and we can't always allow someone else to do it for us. There are certain things we just have to take agency of. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: Right? And our career, our career, our business, VO BOSS, the name of what we do, the branding is ours. And we have to take 100% commitment in that. Anne: Yeah. And you are the marketing department, , you know, you are the accounting department. You are the performance department. You are everything. And just to remind people, and again, I think we forget, we say, I am going to be a voice actor. And so you envision this life where you're gonna be in the studio, auditioning, doing gigs, and the other parts of that business, you kind of say, oh shoot, I have to do those too? And so yeah, you do. And as a matter of fact, that's kind of why there's entire marketing departments in companies that encompass people, like more than one people. And they're full time, as well as accounting people, people full time. So if you wanna run your business successfully, you've got to really remember that this marketing, you may hate it. You can decide to maybe outsource it, but you do have to have control over it being done and/or delegating it to someone. And it is a necessary evil, accounting is a necessary evil. But getting in front of casting directors, people who can hire you, that is a marketing effort and sales really. But if you're doing great marketing, the sales hopefully come automatically. Right? And you don't have to call people up and say, yeah, you know, sell your voice. But if you're doing marketing properly, hopefully it comes your way. And this stems back to a lot of conversations, and I'm sure we can talk about it as well in terms of, is your storefront ready? Do you have your website? Do you have your demos? Are you prepared to market in that respect? It's all encompassing. Lau: And you took the words literally right outta my mouth. That's how I know we're sister sisters. I know this because I was just about to say, I just coached a young man this morning and, and the concern was, ugh, I wanna get to the right agency. I need to be at a big agency. I need to get these kinds of roles. I need to do this. And then when we were actually coaching, there were a lot of issues in his delivery. So always be in coaching, always be training, always have that on your side because casting and agents and producers, you know, really isn't their job to give you feedback. I mean, you're lucky if you get some good feedback from them. A lot of casting were actors before and will just give you feedback, but many won't. And so to have that level of expectation is unrealistic. It's really not their job. Their job is to deal with placement, like recruiters. You're dealing with placement. It's the job of your coach, your trainer, or being in your class. That is really the feedback source that you need to have that piece before you're overly concerned about the business end of it. You don't wanna be marketing something that's not quite ready yet. That's not there or not competitive. Anne: Yeah. I think lifelong learners, I think as performers, whether you are acting on camera, whatever it is, theater and voiceover, I think we continually have to be lifelong learners. I mean, that's, as an educator, that's what I love so much. That's why I was in education I think because I love to learn and I am a lifelong learner. And so that includes your performance and everything that you do and your business to be continually learning. And you have to consider investment. Not everything is free. Sometimes you can train for free. There's a lot of great resources out there, but sometimes you do have to make an investment in it and you can't be surprised by that. And you can't complain. They complain about the cost of coaching, the cost of demos, the cost of marketing. But guys, that's just a reality. That is an investment in your business. And yes, maybe there are some things that cost more than you anticipated, but it is something that I think as a good business BOSS, right, you have to anticipate and you have to put that money away for that coaching. That always helps. So to get yourself in front of that casting director, now you're in front of them. You wanna be able to impress them with your performance and you wanna have something that's relevant and current. And so studying also I think trends, right? Go to iSpot, listen to current commercials, go to YouTube and listen to current voiceover. Now I'm the first person to say that not everything you hear is gonna be the right or great voiceover, but I think you can develop an ear for great voiceover. Lau: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, you know, having that training piece on your side like having it in, in your back pocket, the professional development, the education you're right, Anne, it's just a lifelong thing. And I often tell my clients, we're not off the hook. They somehow look at us and think, you guys are the BOSS. You own the world, you know, everything you're done. Anne: You're getting, you're getting that work for me. . Lau: And I'm telling you, they don't understand that we're always growing businesses. We're always leveling up. We're always investing and reinvesting, and fixing problems, and doing things better. It's never done. There isn't the sense of, oh, I did it. I got my demos. I'm done. No, you're just starting. You're really just beginning. You're not done. You're only at the beginning. And that's what business is like, a general sense. It's like, you always feel like you're starting and restarting based off what your new objectives and your purpose is. Quarter one, I have a new purpose. Now, quarter two comes, I repurpose that. And now I got a new objective. So I have to be able to understand that and know that the truth is our profession is a drop in the bucket, not to minimize the way people feel. 'Cause I totally empathize. Especially in the middle of inflation, believe me, I get you. I get you. But I'm telling you it's a drop in the bucket compared to going to medical school. It is a drop in the bucket compared to my friends who went for an MBA to be a financial advisor. And even actors that are friends of mine that went through three year conservatory degrees come out owing $200,000, $300,000 that they may never be able to pay off. What we are investing, Anne, is incremental. It's not overnight. It's really significantly lower than a lot of other industries out there and what they call upon just to get to the point of an interview for a job. Anne: Right. Now you did mention, and I just was asking like how things have evolved and changed over the years in terms of what casting directors are looking for. And diversity was absolutely number one out of your mouth there. And I agree with that. What else is there? I'm gonna say that natural, believable, authentic style of delivery for sure, which is 90% of casting specs when they come through. Let's talk about that for a little bit. Lau: Mm-hmm. I know that's true. That's the thing everyone gets annoyed with is like, ugh, the natural, the conversational, the connected. Anne: That's the hardest, Lau: it's the hardest. Whether you're a voiceover or an on camera, they just don't wanna hear you act. Anne: Yep, yep. Lau: They just don't want you exaggerated. They don't want you to call attention to your style. They just want to connect to you as a very, very authentic real person. So yeah. It's super important. It's the thing. It represents a whole, actually the largest generation in the United States, which is millennials right now represents them. Right? So that's something we'd absolutely have to pay attention to. Anne: Even promo by the way, even promo is going more conversational by the way. I thought that was so interesting because I hosted Rick Wasserman the other night for VO Peeps. And he said, yeah, they're looking for conversational promo. No more of the announcer style. So. Lau: That amazes me. That really does. That's so true. That amazes me. I wanted to say in casting, now we look for people who have their own built-in audience. Anne: Yes. Lau: That was not a thing. like, I'm not a digital native. I didn't grow up with a computer. Right? Like I literally learned how to turn a computer on at 32 years old. All right. So I'm off the hook a little bit, but the younger generation is not off the hook. They have to come in with their own built-in audience. What I mean by that is a lot of casting will ask you, okay, for your social media, what's your fan base like? What are your numbers like? Who's on your Insta channel? Who's this? Who's that and you're taken aback going, what, why are they asking me this? Because oftentimes they wanna ride. They wanna ride on their coattails of your current audience. Right? So they wanna take people in that already have this built in fan club. So the persona, yeah, the personality really weighs heavily even for voiceover. Anne: And I think that's gonna be that's gonna be another episode, all about social media and social media etiquette, which has become just chaotic. And I think that it's important that as companies and BOSSes, we understand how to represent those companies and our products online. And that's very important, I think, to casting directors these days. So. Lau: Yeah. It's the wild west for sure. And, and dealing with protocol and etiquette but, and again, for listeners who are going, oh no, I'm 55, and I don't know anything about that. It doesn't make you or break you. This is not like, if you don't have it, you're not gonna work. It's just, what are the waves? What are the trends? What are things that we're paying attention to that we find people are really looking for? And that's one of those. Anne: Yeah. Oh good stuff, Lau. Good stuff. Lau: Good stuff. Anne: Thank you so much again for being here and dropping those nuggets of wisdom to the BOSS listeners. I'm very excited for our future episodes. BOSSes, by the way, if you are looking to have your voice make an impact, you absolutely can. And you can give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. And also as always, we love our sponsor ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. Lau, thank you so much. And we'll see you next week, BOSSes. Bye! Lau: My pleasure. Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

The hardest boss you'll ever work for is yourself. In this episode, Anne & Lau jump into Business Superpowers by recounting Lau's many interesting jobs and career shifts. She has been an actor, a voice talent, a manager, a professor, but most importantly, she is fierce in the face of fear. If you feel nervous, excited, or scared about a new opportunity, run towards it. What's the worst that could happen? Failures and mistakes teach you more than success ever will, and with every overnight success comes years of unnoticed hard work. If that's not enough motivation for you, tune in for the full career deep dive with your favorite self-employed Bosses! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to start another brand new series, Business Superpowers with special guest Lau Lapides. Lau is founder and president of Lau Lapides Company, a boutique coaching, training, and production company for voice talent and actors headquartered in Boston with satellites in New York City, Miami, and LA. Her programs include hybrid online and in-person workshops, seminars, and one-on-one personalized coaching as well as showcases in New York City, LA, and online. Lau's media and broadcasting career coaches all currently work in television, film, radio, and theater, and their voices can be heard around the world. Lau, it is so much fun to have you here today. Thank you so much for joining me. Lau: I'm so excited to be here. Like I can't believe it. We finally met each other, got together, east meets west. Anne: Here we go. Lau: Here we go. . Anne: I'm just so excited that you agreed to do this. And I'm so excited about our series, the Business Superpowers, because we've got a lot to talk about. So let's start with you so that our BOSSes can get to know you a little bit better. Let's talk a little bit about your history, how you got started, and how you became such a BOSS in this industry. Lau: Wow. Thank you for that introduction. I appreciate it. I always feel like BOSS term in regards to me and personally has been like the overnight success. You know, when someone comes to you, Anne, and says, I wanna have it overnight, I wanna get that dream. Let's go. And I say, yeah, you can be an overnight success. Absolutely. A 40-year overnight success. Anne: Yeah, I always say my overnight success happened 12 years later. Sorry. Or at least you've gotta start with that. Lau: That's right. Anne: It's true. Lau: I always feel that way that it, it really has been such a lifelong process, such an amazing journey. The path splits off in so many directions. It's hard to even think about what the origins really were, but I'll tell you I was a dancer. Believe it or not. I was a dancer. Anne: And I was an engineer, so, wow. That's pretty cool. There you go. Lau: There you go. Same thing in a lot of ways, right? Walking, choreography. Anne: Right. But you don't always think, well, you'd end up with your own company in voice acting and, and acting, so. Lau: No, no. If someone were to tell me that I would do this 30, 40 years later, I would've laughed. I would've fell off my chair. I would not have believed it. So I started off as a dancer who really didn't speak at all. And then I went into an acting career. I had a whole acting career for a good 20 years, went through top level graduate program at UC Irvine in California. And that really changed my life, your neck of the woods. Anne: East and west. Here we go. So . Lau: East and west, east and west. And so after having this extensive theater background, I did a lot of repertory, a lot of regional, a lot of stock, became Equity, became an Equity actor, yada yada, so on and so forth. I ended up at grad school in California. That was really a turn for me. I started getting into a lot of media driven entertainment, started doing more TV/film, started my voiceover as a voiceover talent as a performer, really mid to late 20s. It was kind of later for me and then just kind of launched in that direction. And once I got my master's degree, I became a professor. I became a college and university professor and one of my specialties was to create curriculum . So I made my way back to New York. I lived in New York and I started creating curriculum all while I was acting and directing, 'cause I had also become a director and producer. Anne: I was gonna say, acting curriculum? Lau: Acting curriculum but it was interesting, Anne. The twist is, and this is where the whole BOSS in business situation starts to enter my world, is I was approached by top business colleges, and this was really out of my realm. Honestly, I'll be quite transparent with you. I knew nothing about that. I think I had business savvy, but I had the mind of a creative. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Lau: I was actor, voice talent, director. You know, I was on the other side of it, and all of a sudden I got approached by Harvard. I got approached by Babson. I got approached by Bentley. These were all the top business colleges at that time, now universities, Boston University saying all kind of like the similar theme. What is the problem and how can I fix it? So I knew right away, they all had a problem or a need. And it was, we want programming for our business students that is creative and teaches them how to speak. Anne: Mm yes. Right? Important. Lau: It's very important. Anne: To be, to speak and present. I know that for sure. We have so many parallels, you and I, because I was 20 years in education and started up as an engineer, and I was on the east coast and then started my voiceover career a little bit later. So I had what I consider the creative in the engineering aspect, in the technology aspect and then in education, because I got so geeky and excited about it, I wanted to share it. So then I taught and, and then it just, it became all these passions and loves of mine. And then ultimately I started a full time voiceover career after that and moved west. So we have so many parallels. Lau: Yeah. Anne: And you're absolutely right. The business aspect of things is so important in the creative. I think a lot of students that come to me, and I'm sure you're familiar with this, they feel stuck in their jobs. And they need the creativity, and that's exactly like, what's that problem? Like where's the creativity in your job and where is that outlet? And a lot of times people turn to the creative arts, which is fantastic that you had that left brain, right brain 50-50, which is something that I was always told I was very good at, that you could relate on both sides of the thing. And so fantastic. So now bring us up to date now. You're currently still on the east coast? Lau: Yes I am. And skip 10 years, got an offer to open a studio. It was the right time. I got a brick and mortar. I was very excited about it. Always wanted to have a studio, had been now teaching for a good decade, had been now directing. While I was still performing, I was acting and doing voiceover all the way through. There was something in me, Anne, that wanted to be a leader. And here's the interesting thing I wanted to bring out about being in business programs. I got an education by default. So I started to learn that I could be educated by the students I was teaching. Anne: Oh gosh, yes mm-hmm. Lau: Right? So these were students from all over the world. They were undergrad, graduate, MBA, fast track people, every country in the world. And I started to learn what I needed to know as a business woman to then open a studio. So when I was 40, I opened a studio and I opened first an actor division. First I opened an actor division, and then about two years later came my voiceover division. And this was in the first recession. One of the worst recessions we had in the country was the first five years of my business. And so I knew I was either gonna sink or swim this was it. And somehow we made it through. It started to explode. What I thought was a luxury based business or a dream based business really turned into a reality and something very pragmatic that people were looking for to solve that problem, to fill that need in them. You know, what do I do next in my life? Or how do I restart a career? Or how do I live my dream? And we were learning, we meaning myself and then I hired a staff of like six to eight really amazing coaches from all over the place, to help me realize this team leadership, client centered kind of philosophy that I had in my head after teaching for 10 years all these amazing up and coming entrepreneurs. And so that was an amalgamation of all those years. I had no business model. I should have. I didn't. My business model was hardcore. It was like, my dad always taught me. He was a great entrepreneur. And he said, put the key in the door, show up early and just go to work. Anne: Well, I was just gonna say to you, you talk about, well, I just opened up a studio. Like, oh, it was like literally a split second of our conversation. But in reality, like, I need to know like that is a BOSS move. Like there's a lot of things that go into saying, oh, I'm going to open up a studio. And I'm sure that you probably went through, oh my gosh, like, how am I gonna get the money and will I make money? And you didn't have a business plan, but I love how you just said put the key in the ignition and just go. I think that says a lot for just foraging ahead and manifesting success for yourself because I can only imagine how difficult that is. And BOSSes out there, I mean, as entrepreneurs, this is something that you really need to do when it comes time to taking that leap of faith and going for it and making this a business that you can support yourself with, I mean, and make money. I mean, it's the reason why we create businesses is so that we can make money. And that's just such an important factor. So this is the same studio right now that you're working out of, the one that you've opened? Lau: This is another one. We've moved since, and of course COVID had changed everything for everyone. So, you know, everyone has home studios now. Everyone has condensed down. Everyone has compressed. We are just getting back to live in studio again and traveling. We just came back from a showcase that we produce, our company produces in New York City and then a week-long competitive convention that we are a part of. So we're just literally now getting back to physically getting on a train, going to New York, going back into studios. And that's also part of our mainstay is to connect voice talent to people live if possible in an industry. Anne: So let's talk about the pandemic because as a studio, how did you survive during the pandemic? I mean, you've gotta pivot. So not only are you just opening brick and mortar studios, which have become with the progression of home studios, being something that everybody's got, that's a tough biz anyway, right? So, and then the pandemic, which pretty much just cut off all in person, in studio gigs. How did you survive and how did you pivot during that time? Lau: Yeah, I mean, so I'll take it to a moment 'cause you know how it is about life, Anne. There's so much you can talk about, but you gotta get down to the nugget of what you really wanna say. There was a moment for me in COVID, and to get back to your comments about the putting the key in the door, how does it feel, the terror that you have inside of you, the fear of failure, the how do I make the rental? This is all internal life that I had inside of me, as many BOSSes have inside of the, of saying I have to feel the fear and then I have to do it anyway. So if I feel the fear, I acknowledge it. I affirm it. It's natural. Now I'm gonna do it anyway. I'm gonna take that calculated risk. So to answer your question, there was a moment in COVID where I thought, okay, all production has gone down for actors. Voiceover is still great, viable and running. What do I film now? Like I'm a good, good problem solver. What's the need that we need right now? And at the time I was sitting in Boston thinking, what does New England need? And I came to me, we needed a voiceover division. We have no voiceover divisions that run out of agencies in New England. Like I know out of the major hubs. And I said, huh, how do I create that? So I immediately started reaching out to agency friends and colleagues, 'cause we work with everyone everywhere, and certainly in new England, we know the handful that are out there. And the bite that I got was a, a friend and colleague of mine, Tim Ayers, who's amazing and has Run Model Club Inc out of Boston for many years. He's owned it for about 10, 12 years. And it's been existence for a good 30 years. A lot of us are repped by them in the New England market. And I reached out to him, and he just had that progressive moment of saying, listening to his meshugene crazy friend Lau, just spout on, in the middle of COVID and all he said was yeah, yeah. Do it. I don't know anything about voiceover, so you're gonna have to do that. And I said, great! Not knowing anything, anything about being an agent or becoming an agent. So I had done casting. I had done producing, I was an actor, certainly a voiceover talent, but I had never been an agent. Anne: But you had all the knowledge and all of the industries surrounding it and the things that you would need to know to be a good agent actually. So I think all of you -- this had prepared you for the moment to become an agent. Lau: Right. But going back to your question earlier, which was brilliant is you are in that moment, you feel excited. And then when you realize the reality you go, ooh, that's a little scary. That's a little terrifying. Now I have to know stuff. Now I have to like now I have to lead. Anne: Not just a little terrifying. It's pretty much terrifying. Just saying. Lau: It's terrifying. And then when I felt it, I knew I was on the right track because that was the challenge that -- Anne: When you're scared. Lau: When you're scared, yeah, you need to jump out of the plane. You need to jump off the cliff. You really do. And I always think to myself, and I pass this on to clients and talent. I say, what's the worst that's gonna happen, really? I wasn't sinking a lot of capital or a lot of money into that, you know? No one really knew I was doing it. I said the worst is it doesn't work. It just doesn't work. And that's okay. I will learn a lot from the not working if it doesn't work. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It's a learning opportunity. Lau: it is. It really is. I think everything is to be honest with you. And I think once we make mistakes and once we do the wrong thing, we learn even more oftentimes than when we do the right thing. Anne: Absolutely. So then you developed your voiceover division. And that is now running strong and now you're starting to come back in studio as well? Lau: Yes. Yes. Anne: Fantastic. Lau: Yes. So, you know, the agency of course is mostly online nowadays, you know. Tim works online. I work online. Very rarely are we seeing actors or voice talent in person. It's just not necessary. It's expensive to do that. It's time consuming. And so we had to learn how to be a hybrid business model. We had to learn that. Anne: Sure, sure. Now what sorts of things are you doing in studio these days? Lau: Well, we have a handful of folks that come to us. And the interesting part about it, Anne, is we have a really unique model. Our model now runs as the studio, which is Lau Lapides Company. That's our training production base. That's totally separate than the agency. The agency is under Tim. He's the owner-operator. I'm his lead agent that launched the voiceover division, MCVO. Anne: Got it. Lau: And they run parallel to each other. And it's fascinating. It's really interesting to see where are the crossovers and where's the distinctive separation, because in essence I'm a, for lack of a better term, a hired consultant to launch a division, but yet we're the ones who know how to run it. We're the ones who know the world. We're the ones who are bringing in all of the talent in the roster. So it's a very interesting kind of parallel that we walk. The people that we see in person, mainly coaching, mainly studio clients that will come in. Maybe they'll need to do a recording or they'll need a coaching session, or they just wanna come in and talk about their career. And there's always a group of people that are geographically local enough to do that and wanna have that in person experience. Then everyone else is online. Anne: Yeah. Technology is a beautiful thing, but also in person is something I think through that pandemic, I mean, people are just desperate to get out for face to face, an in person meetings, sessions. And I think that hybrid is really a wonderful thing. I remember myself when I moved from the east coast to the west coast -- it's funny because you said you wanted to be a leader, and I missed teaching. I missed leading a group, and that's what created my desire to start the VO Peeps. And that was a group that I wanted to lead and bring educational initiatives to. And it's just something that was wonderful at the time. And because I started in Southern California, there was only a certain amount of people that I could reach out to locally. And because I had such a background in technology, I was one of the first meetup groups to both stream meetings personally, as well as onto the Internet. So I had a very hybrid group. And so I could actually at that point become a global networking group. And that became something that I did long time ago, back in 2000 and, I think 2010 I started to do that at the time. Not many people were doing it. And so it became a really wonderful way to just reach out to a much broader audience. So you have such a, a wonderfully wide audience. So even though you're located on the east coast, you have a widespread reach that is global, which is something that, as voice talent today, it's something that we need to address and understand the market in that way. Because gosh, when I started doing voiceover, a home studio wasn't even a thought. It was a luxury. Some people, oh, they dabbled in it. And other than that, you just have to go to the studio and, and audition and do the jobs and getting the work was -- that was before pay to plays. And really the agent was the person who served you. Let's get a little bit more in depth with, let's say the casting processes. I feel like if you had to sum up like, what one thing do you do the most of right now? Or is it all things? Is it casting? Is it performance? Is it managing? What is it that you do that consumes your day? Or what's a day like for Lau? Lau: I would say managing. You brought it up. That's the word managing and management as you know, Anne, is hard. It's challenging. It's about how you deal with temperament, balance, time, energy, you know, it's all those things. How do you have longevity to keep going? How do you maintain stamina? How do you hold grace and not lose your patience? There's so much that goes into an education about how do you run a business? How do you manage people? How do you manage yourself? How do you keep yourself in line? I always joke with my people. I say really, honestly, I work for the hardest boss I've ever worked for. Anne: Yourself. Lau: She's tough. And that's me. Anne: I love that. That's I get. Yeah, I get that. Lau: Like I can stand outside and be honest about that and say, wow, she's a bitch. Sometimes I have to be really tough. And sometimes I have to be really strong, and sometimes I have to be really vulnerable and empathize with situations that I myself may or may not, or I myself may or may not think is a big deal. So I think the management factor of making an eclectic, diverse program run along with the agency division is a lot of the circus plates in the air. It's really a lot of that. And I realize I'm gonna drop plates at times. I realize I'm gonna set myself on fire at times. And I always have some sort of extinguisher waiting, you know what I mean? Like you're gonna get burned. That's just the reality of it. But yeah, so we're coaching all the time. We are working on jobs and gigs all the time. This was a great week for us. We hooked a lot of our agency MCVOs up with some great gigs this week, three big jobs we landed this week. So it's a lot of balancing act, and it's a lot about getting to people quickly, right? People want responses, being responsive quickly. Anne: I have to completely agree with that. And as a manager, right, as a boss, we expect those things of ourselves, of people we're dealing with. And I wanna kind of just bring what you've said in perspective for, let's say, people just coming into the industry. You may not have people to manage yet, but you absolutely have to manage yourself. And also part of the growing and part of growth, even as a small business entrepreneur -- you don't have to open up a studio to be managing things and managing people. Because I've talked about this on previous episodes and I'm sure Lau and I will talk about this as outsourcing. You will have to manage people, manage your business, and to do so successfully requires some skills that you can learn as you go. I mean, I think it's a wonderful thing. Once you become an entrepreneur and you're not necessarily -- you know, I worked in corporate for many years and I worked in education, which is another form of working for someone else. When it comes time to working for yourself, you're probably the hardest boss. And that includes not just the aspects of the business, but you're also hard on yourself personally, because what you're selling is part of a brand of yourself. You are a personal brand. And so not only is it doubly hard, I think, because you don't have a physical product necessarily to offset. Right now, if you're hard on someone, you're also hard on yourself because now you're gonna be hard on your product, which is your voice and your performance. And it's a very personal thing, which makes I think being an entrepreneur in our industry very difficult. You have to try to separate yourself so that you're not affecting your product by being hard on your performance or hard on your growth or lack of growth. Lau: That is beautiful, Anne, just perfect. And you have to play paradoxes every single day of your life. You have to play these opposites, which feel really weird and uncomfortable. Like on one hand, you have to be super hard on yourself so that you can perform, you can produce, and you can do it in a timely manner. And then on the other hand, you have to go easy on yourself. You have to forgive yourself. You have to not hold yourself to standards that are insanely ridiculous. You know what I mean? And you have to treat yourself as a human being because if you beat yourself up too much, you're just not gonna last long. You're not gonna have the esteem and the confidence to really last long in the industry. So you have to play these kind of opposites, this antithetical effect all the time, and go back and forth from it, and kind of say, hey, I need to do this. I need to get this done. It's important, but hey, wait a second. Where's the flexibility in it? How can I do it again better? What did I learn from it? And really kind of fluidly go back and forth from that mindset. Anne: Right. And it's not something, as we both mentioned in the beginning of this podcast, it's not something that happens a few times like a day or week. I mean, we're talking to really be successful in this industry in a marathon, not a sprint, right? Our overnight success took 12 years or 40 years, whatever that is, that is continue -- and I don't know if the fear factor for me got easier or I just dealt with it better because if I'm not doing something every day that scares me, then I'm not growing. And if I'm stagnating, that is the death of me. That is where I felt I was when I worked in the corporate world. I felt like it just wasn't growing. And that is something to me and my psyche and my development is really important. Lau: It's super important. I love that quote too. That's I think a famous Eleanor Roosevelt quote is do something every day that scares you. You know, and never, never, never give up. So there's that element of, yeah. I need to be afraid, but not so terrified that I'm paralyzed. You know, I like to say now analysis can be paralysis. Like don't overthink it too much. Don't overanalyze it too much because you can find a reason why not to do things all the time. Anne: Oh, gosh. Lau: Right? Anne: Oh yeah. Yeah. There's ways -- I'm a good procrastinator on certain things. Lau: I think most people are. Anne: Those are the things I wanna outsource. I wanna outsource those things, but. Lau: But you know what you said earlier, which was so true is like the delegation effect, learning how to delegate, learning how to -- Anne: Let go control. Lau: Yes. Anne: That's me. I'm a control freak. Did you notice that about me yet? Lau: Listen, you and me are gonna start that club because I am a self-professed control freak too. And part of that is a beautiful gift because you wanna have that sense of like, I can fully 100% manage what's going on, but we have to know that, you know, at the end of the day, we don't really have control over anything. It's like an illusion, you know? Anne: You're right. And I'm learning as I grow that it's impossible for me to grow without delegating and letting go control because I'm only one person with only so many hours in a day. And so I cannot grow my business without letting go of some of that control and trusting. And then it becomes a whole 'nother lesson I think in growing your business is trusting your team and getting people on board with you that believe in you, believe in your process, believe in the company and that you have a mutual respect for each other. And I always say that, you know, I treat my employees like gold because they really are gold to me, and I make sure they're paid well. I make sure all those things that scare me and say, oh my God, can I afford to do this? Do I have a budget? I make the budget. Right? And so again, you have to throw out a lot of faith, a lot of faith that things will come to you if you put it out there and that you are putting your faith in your employees and they have a sense of loyalty and pride and want to work with you for success of the company. And that's a really hard thing if you're not used to doing that, if you've worked for someone else for all your life and that's scary thing. Lau: And it's a skill. You're right, it's a soft skill. But ironically, it's a hard skill. It really is. And you need to cultivate it to some degree because you want to have your team, your village, your tribe, whatever you call them, no person is an island. I'm telling you, I could not build the studio myself. I had my family, my husband, my own children who now work in the business with me. I mean, it's immense, the help that and assistance that you need as you grow. And just like identifying, you have to be able to identify who are my people that are really great, and they're supportive, and they're helpful? And then who are the people who are the growth people? Those are the people who can really help you grow and level up in your business to the next tier and really not mixing up. Yeah, not mixing up the two, 'cause they're very different people, equally valuable and equally loved. I'll use that word love. I think you need to love people. Anne: And -- I agree -- and of course, even harder I think is if the people are not necessarily a fit for you and in letting go and in making that decision. There's that whole boss-employee kind of relationship. Are they friends as well? And there's a lot of delicate things in there, which, oh gosh, we could spend a whole 'nother podcast probably talking about that. Lau: We could, we could spend forever talking about that. . Anne: And actually I think we will, but I'm gonna say for today, Lau, thank you so much. It's been a wonderful privilege to have you coming on the show. I'm excited for our future episodes of BOSS Superpowers, of Business Superpowers. And so thank you so much for your wisdom today and telling us a little bit about yourself. And BOSSes out there, I want you to know that as individuals, sometimes it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, you can help contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that you never thought possible. And you can visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. Also a great, big shout-out to my sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much, Lau. Bye. Lau: Thank you, Anne. Loved it. Anne: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Iterate or evaporate. In this episode, Anne & Erikka are here to get you out of a funk. Whether it's a slow season in your genre or you are feeling like work isn't coming as easily as it did a few months ago, your hosts are here to cheer you on. Connecting with a community can help motivate you, but really the only person you have to impress is yourself! This industry requires you to be consistent, tenacious, and ready to keep going even when it feels impossible. Reflecting on recent accomplishments or setting new goals can reignite that fire. Maybe you need to journal about why you got into voice over in the first place. Whatever it is, we are here for you and if you need a little boost, put this episode on repeat! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm happy to be back this morning, having a balanced breakfast with my good friend, Erikka J. Erikka! Yay! How are you? Erikka: Hey Ann. I am good. I did not have a balanced breakfast, but. Anne: Erikka: I'm coming back balanced and refreshed from vacation. Anne: Well, there you go. Erikka: That's great. Anne: And since we wanna remain with our theme of balance, I wanted to ask you, it seems like you had a wonderful, luxurious vacation. Did it restore the balance to your creative and professional life as well as your personal life? Erikka: I think so. I think so, but it was crazy because kind of looping back to what we said in earlier episode, I had like a chaotic day, right before I left. I know we've talked about like having backups and all those things, and man, did it save my behind because -- Anne: Ah, very important. Talk about it. Let's talk about it. Erikka: Oh my goodness. I had a SAG video game session that I've worked with once or twice before, but still, you know, those are like super exciting, but also wanna make sure everything's right. So had everything set up. They had me on Zoom first and they get on SourceConnect. And for whatever reason, Zoom and SourceConnect hated each other that day. And like my interface wouldn't work, and my DAW wouldn't work and it was just like, ohhhh, like. Anne: That's tense. That's a tense situation. So what happened? So what happened? Erikka: Luckily I had backups, Anne. Anne: Ooh! Erikka: So so I switched from my Apollo right over to my Audient, and I switched from Adobe audition right over to Pro Tools, which they use too, so they were super cool with. And I actually heard them comment, "isn't it great when an actor like knows what they're doing with the technical stuff?" Anne: Ooh. Score. Erikka: And I was, like -- Anne: That was awesome. Erikka: Yes! Anne: And you know what? I absolutely am quite sure that's gonna have a big bearing on them wanting to work with you again. Erikka: Well, I'll tell you what, it was also a very nice way to kick off vacation by not leaving a session, like, oh my God, I screwed up. It was like, it all worked out in the end. So then I could go on vacation happily and you know, relax. So it was great. Anne: Wow. Well, congratulations on that for sure. Erikka: Thank you. Anne: I know that for me, like when I go on vacation, I'm very much all on or I'm very much all off. And when I go on vacation, I can completely, thankfully I can completely disconnect. And then I find that when I get back, it's tough to motivate myself again. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: So I figured it would be kind of a good thing to talk about. How do you motivate yourself? And then also, how do you motivate yourself when, during the course of your voiceover career, let's say, things aren't working out the way you expect? I know a lot of people come to me, you know, I'm not booking and it's just really frustrating. And how do you self motivate when you're just coming off a vacation or when the chips are down? Erikka: Oh boy, that's something that I think is like a muscle that we have to keep toned in this business, you know? Because there's so many things that can not help to keep us motivate -- Anne: Demotivate. Yeah. Erikka: Exactly. Exactly. So, you know, you're not booking or whatever, but coming back off a vacation, it's like, yes, you've had this refresh, but it's always like hard to get back in the saddle, right? So usually what I'll do is I'll have at least one day of rest to make sure that like, I don't have -- Anne: Once you come back. Erikka: I'm typically still booked out. Anne: Yeah. I love that. Yes, I do that too. I book out one extra day when I come back for that jet leg or whatever it is. So you can just relax and kind of get yourself geared back up. Erikka: Yep. And if I see like an audition I really wanna do, I might try to do like one or two just to kind of like warm up getting back in the booth. Anne: Sure. Erikka: But you know, that way it's kind of my choice, 'cause I've already said like, hey, I'm booked out this day. Anne: Important question though. Did you completely book out during that vacation? Did you bring any equipment with you? Erikka: I did. So I have that Shure MV 88, which is plus, which is super tiny and it's so small that I don't mind carrying that. I stopped carrying around my 416 and my interface, 'cause that just felt like -- it was hard to be on vacation yeah. And I always get stopped by TSA. Like it's a microphone. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Erikka: So I did bring it with me, but yeah, I didn't record a single thing on vacation. It was great. Anne: Good. Congratulations on that. Yeah. Erikka: Thank you. Thank you. Anne: Absolutely. Erikka: Yeah. So self-motivating, man, you gotta -- there's a lot of different things, whether that's warming up to get back in the booth and then thinking about why are you doing this? You know, what are your personal goals? What are your professional goals? What about you, Anne? Anne: Well, I think a lot of times, if you're getting frustrated, when let's say work, isn't coming your way or you didn't book that audition or you're not sure what's happening, obviously number one, it happens to all of us. So just know that. There are times when things can be slow, and things may not be happening the way that you expect them to. So number one, know that you're not alone. Number two, reach out. I think reach out to somebody that can be an accountability buddy or, or just a friend in the industry that can help you motivate, get yourself back on track. And just to kind of reinforce the fact that you're not alone, and maybe they're having some slow moments too, or maybe they're not, and then that may or may not make you feel better. But but for sure, I think know that it happens to all of us and reach out and communicate. Don't just let it sit inside you and fester. Erikka: Fester, yes. Anne: Because I think that just is like a self-fulfilling prophecy, you know what I mean? It just, it's hard to get out of until somebody can help snap you out of it. And so, Hey, just put this VO BOSS episode on repeat. So whenever you're down, and you need motivation to say it's okay and it happens, there are slow times in the industry. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Keep plugging away at it. It is a marathon, not a sprint. What other things do we say? Interestingly enough, Erikka, I've been in this industry over 15 years, and honestly it does take tenacity, and it takes consistency and staying with it. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Now obviously if you haven't booked in a year, that might be an indication that maybe you need some other outside help or maybe performance technique or something else. Maybe you're not marketing enough. But I think for the most part, when you go through these lulls, for sure, just understand that it does happen and reach out so that you're not in this self-sabotaging moments of saying, that's it; I can't do this or this isn't for me and quit, because it is a marathon. It is a marathon. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. And I think what you said is important about like, not just reaching out, like remembering that that also includes like coaches or, you know, finding workshops that maybe you need just need a refresh. Everybody still needs to train. I just had a class on Thursday when I got back. But you know, also sort of honing in on what exactly. like what's the problem? You can't really solve it until you know exactly what's missing. Is it that you're not reaching out enough and you're not drumming up enough leads? Or are you getting the leads and not quite landing the auditions? Maybe it's audition technique, 'cause maybe once you're in the job, it's great and they love you, but you're not getting the attention and standing out from the pack. Just sort of honing in on what is it that I need to work on to drum things up and knowing what the lulls are in the industry is key. Because it may not be you; it may just be the time of year, you know? Anne: Yeah, and also, not just the time of year, but the genre that you're working in as well. Erikka: Yes. Yeah. Anne: Like there are certain genres that probably don't let up, like if you're in promo, right? And you're the voice of a show, you will have a schedule that will be somewhat predictable when the show is running or before the show -- whatever it is, you'll be on a schedule for those particular jobs. Versus let's say commercial: if you're the voice of a particular campaign, there may be a lot of work at once and then the campaign might be over. And so then you're onto the next campaign. If it's e-learning or corporate, it could be kind of hit or miss, you know, sometimes it's feast or famine, that sort of thing. Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Anne: And just understand that when there is a famine, I think that's the time when you have to step back and increase the marketing levels, increase your, you know, reaching out to your contacts, making sure that you're continually on the lookout for that next client. I think you really should never be complacent if you're busy and when you're busy. Always be on the lookout for finding that next client, because you just never know when that job may end. And I think for me, I don't expect anything -- Erikka: Yeah. Anne: -- from my clients and the more predictable the work is, obviously the more comfortable and the more confident you're gonna be. So for me, I've got some regular clients that I know in advance like what jobs are coming up. And that gives me a source of confidence so that I can go and audition for more jobs and maybe a different genre and take some chances there. Because I always like to mix that up. Erikka: Absolutely. Yeah. You don't wanna be taking all your risk at one point and then you don't have anything going on. You wanna kind of have your foundation, you know, know your, what your business plan is, know what your strategy is to keep yourself balanced, right, and to keep your balance sheet in balance. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So those are all, all great things. Anne: And I think we talk about like goal setting in a recent episode. You know, I think goal setting is important because we can lose sight of -- within that goal setting, we write things down. We also not just write our goals down, but our accomplishments. And if you're doing that on a timely basis, on a weekly basis, a monthly basis, whatever that is, going back and taking a look at your progress and your accomplishments is going to be something I think that you can always keep track of. And that can also help to motivate you to say -- you know, I was thinking I haven't been busy, but in reality, I got that job. Or, you know, I got that wonderful testimonial from that client. Or I made contact with a bunch of new production houses that I'm on the roster. Whatever that is, you can take a look at what has happened so far. That's why I think keeping track in goal setting and writing down your accomplishments and goals that have come to fruition, I think that's so, so important. Erikka: Absolutely. Like my metrics are super self-motivating for me. And it actually has kind of pulled me out of a, oh, I don't think I'm doing as much work. You know, I haven't been feeling well, all of this. And then I go back, and I look and I'm like, well, it's not that bad. You know, and maybe it's not as bad as I kind of -- we, we inflate these things in our head, but when you go back and look at the numbers, especially like, what I do is I'll definitely look at my year over year. So I'll see I did this last March and you know, this this March and kind of get an idea of where I'm at, looking at incomes, you know, a number of auditions that I did, bookings, and even like callbacks. Like if I got a callback in a genre that I haven't gotten a call back in before, that is progress, and that's showing that, you know, I've gotten better. So all that stuff is incredibly self-motivating. Anne: Well, you know, you mentioned income, and I'd like to touch upon that just a little bit. I will say that for me, of course it's about voiceover. But for me, it's also about being the entrepreneur, and the entrepreneur is someone who can design their business so that it can be profitable and fruitful both in self-fulfillment as well as let's say financial, and I am not ashamed to say that that is part of a game for me. I like to make money. It helps me to support the household and the family, and I'm not ashamed to say that. And I think there's a lot of us that, especially when starting out in the industry are very timid. "I'm not experienced enough. I'm not good enough yet. I need more training." And they're very timid about charging a particular amount, charging what they're worth. We've touched on charging what you're worth, you know, multiple times in this podcast. But I will say that if you charge what you're worth, and even just once in a while, throw out a number that you think is ridiculous. When you get that number, that is a motivator, like no other . Erikka: Yes, totally agree. Totally agree. And being able to kind of, tying that in with goals and the income thing, is making sure that your goals are -- and I wanna be cautious with the word realistic. And what I think I really mean is incremental and iterative. Anne: Yes. Erikka: So it is okay to set astronomical goals for yourself, but make that a long term thing. Anne: Yes. Erikka: What are the steps to get there? If you wanna make $100,000 in voiceover, what is it gonna take for you to make per month, per week, per day? How many reachouts or, you know, whatever your lead generation strategy is, what do you need to do to to generate that number? And then taking a look at where you landed and kind of setting for the next iteration, what's a more realistic goal for me if I didn't hit it or, oh, I did go over. So maybe I need to reach a little harder because you put that into the universe, I really believe that you can limit yourself by kind of having lower goals. But if you have somewhere in the sweet spot, it can help you be very motivated. Anne: Yeah. And I do wanna continue a little bit more on that financial aspect of it, but if you have a cushion, if you have been able to, if you have a great repeat client, if you have -- or anything, not even, even if it's voiceover, if you have another job, right, that you're making income and you have some money that you have put aside, and this is my voiceover business investment money -- once you have the confidence of having money in there, I believe it is a true motivator to allow you to take more risks in your business. Erikka: Yes, totally agree. Anne: And that to me has been honestly, something that has helped me grow exponentially, just that confidence that I don't have to worry about the money because I've got money set aside for investment. I have a little bit of time to kind of strategize and calculate what can I do now to make money? And again, without people thinking I'm greedy, 'cause I don't like to classify that as greed at all. It's a simple acknowledgement and understanding that money makes the world go around right now, and I need to pay a mortgage. And so with that hardcore realization, to me, it becomes a challenge. "Okay. How can I have enough money set aside and reinvest that money so that I can make more money?" Erikka: Yep, absolutely. Anne: So that I can maybe invest in a good vacation that will help me reset myself creatively, which is something that I need and is coming up in the next year. You know, I've made plans to go on a nice vacation. That is something that I think is not only helpful for me personally, but also professionally because it's going to help me to reset. And so many of us have certain blocks for money. And once we realize what those blocks are, we can work to kind of clear those blocks and just, without getting too woo-woo, right allow the abundance, allow the money and not be ashamed or feel bad about it or simply accept it and allow it to come into our lives. 14:30 Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. So keeping that balanced mindset, not one of scarcity, but one of abundance and welcoming that not just money itself because yes, I love making money too. And recognizing that you have value when you are voicing these projects. You are helping these companies make money in some type of way. Anne: Exactly. Erikka: So you should be compensated for it. There's nothing wrong with that. But this money can allow you, you to not just hitting the number goal, but it can allow you to reach personal goals. Like maybe paying off debt or helping a parent or a child go to college or whatever. So it's a tool. Money is a tool that you can use to do things in your life. You work for it, you should get it, and there's nothing wrong with setting goals based on that. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the biggest money blocks that I faced when I was growing up was that my father was supposed to be the head of the household and making the money. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And my mother was raising the children, right? And bless them both, love them both, but that was kind of what I was raised with. But thankfully my parents were always encouraging, saying I could be whatever I wanted to be. I didn't feel like there was a limitation, but just because it was something that I grew up with, and I saw, as I became a business owner, should I feel bad that I'm making more money? I remember when I was going out to get a job, I'm like, well, how much money should I make? Like that was an actual thought in my head. Well, if I get married, my husband should make more money than me, and I, you know, of course immediately put a stop to that. But I don't want that to be a limitation at all for that. So it was always like, well, as a woman, I shouldn't be making as much money. And of course I put a stop right to that in today's world. Heck no. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: You know? For me -- Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. I always wanted as much as possible. Anne: Yeah, exactly. And for me, believe it or not, you wanna talk about how we're motivating, how to motivate when the chips are down, that's a motivator. It is a motivator. And so I am continually trying to improve. And when I set my goals and again, I love that you said the incremental-iterive not outlandish goals, but when you set decent goals that are incremental, and you hit those goals, that becomes such a motivator. Erikka: Yes, yes. Anne: And again, it doesn't consume my business, but it absolutely drives my business because you want to be successful. And so to be successful, I'd like to make a profit for this because it is my full-time career. Now, if you're in voiceover, and maybe it's your part-time career, I want you to have a goal of making money as well, because I don't want you to not care about it because then it will drive down, let's say, it may drive down the valuation in the industry, right? So every one of us should get paid, whether we're working full-time or part-time, we should get paid what we're worth. Erikka: Absolutely. Think about, even if it's, if it is part-time or just side money for you, think about what you could do with that extra money, and maybe that'll help you keep your rates up like vacations. You know, just went to Cabo and it was gorgeous. It could be saving for retirement. It could be saving for college for kids. It could be saving to take care of an aging parent. It could be just investing, you know, go buy an investment property. So don't see it as just, oh yeah, I'll do this for $100 because who cares? Anne: It's just a hobby for me. No. I want you to turn that thought around and say, hey, demand the money that you're worth and concentrate on the clients who are willing to pay you what you're worth. Erikka: Indeed. Anne: And try to even change the notion that there are some jobs that may not be worth as much. I mean, I think a lot of that is our own self-inflicted limitations on what we can charge for a job. I mean, a lot of times, you know, we have talked about negotiation before. You know, the person who mentions money first usually loses. And so always asking for a budget really helps because one of the last jobs I asked for a budget, and it was literally five times bigger than the budget I had in my brain. And I said, oh, I think I can work with that. Right? And that was a great motivator that -- Erikka: Yep. Anne: Right? Erikka: Exactly. Anne: I'm like -- Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: -- wow. You know, I could actually get that money for that job and I didn't feel guilty. I didn't feel like it was overcharged because again, like you've mentioned, you're helping a business to make money. And so, you know, you are absolutely worth the money, and even if it's more than you think. And that really, I think helps to set like little benchmarks for like, okay, so I got paid for this particular genre this amount and you know what, it's not impossible that I could get paid that again or not more so. Erikka: Agreed. And even some like external motivators 'cause we wanna balance what's motivating us, right? 'Cause money is great. Money's important. Money is probably the main reason that most of us are doing this. We wanna get paid and compensated for our time and talents. But understanding that there are other motivators as well, in addition to other goals you can set, it can be personal, just kind of growing your artistic muscles and being a great actor, but even external motivations like awards. I think that awards showing achievements that you've made in certain categories, for one, I think that they are a marketing and advertising tool, which is great to drum up new business. And it's nice to be recognized by your peers and to be able to say, I did such a great job on this that I was awarded for it. So those can be great too. Anne: Absolutely. There is such a difference of opinion with some people about the awards. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Are they valid for us or not? But I think any type of recognition from our peers, that's validation. There's so many times when, again, we're such an isolated business and it's such a personal aspect of our brand that we're being judged on. Whether we get paid or not, right, whether we get that job or not, right, it is a personal part of us that is being valued, right? It's our voice. And so if we can have other people say, wow, great job, that really, really helps to motivate. And that includes award ceremonies. And again, there's the whole argument, well, you're paying for the award. Well, like you mentioned, consider that in investment in marketing. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: Does it really make a difference? I say, yeah, it does. I mean, it makes a difference to the person who may not be familiar with the voiceover industry, and they say, well, they've been awarded, so they must be good. I'm not necessarily marketing to voiceover people when I get an award on my voiceover work. I'm advertising to companies or other people that might hire me for the same thing. And it does leave an impression. Erikka: Yeah. Think about, I know that we've all either had a product or a brand or something that we've seen, and they have on their website when they've been talked about in certain magazines or when they've earned certain awards. Again, we are businesses as well. So why would we see this as any different? There's nothing wrong with it. And if you have the argument, what does it help? My retort would be how does it hurt? Anne: Yeah. Agreed. Erikka: You know, like -- Anne: That's a great retort. Erikka: Hey. Anne: I mean, why not? So. Erikka: Why not? Get dressed up and have fun with your friends. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I also think it's like, so anybody that knows me kind of knows that I'm a little competitive as I laugh, just a tiny bit competitive. And just the competitiveness of it all, even if I don't win, right? Erikka: Right. Anne: Which, you know, I'll be like rrr, but anyways , but even that little bit of competition is stirs up my adrenaline. Right? It's just fun. Erikka: It's fun. Anne: And again, it's something that wakes me up out of complacency. I think if you're not motivated, you're complacent. And complacency for me is like a dead end. It is a place where I can't grow and a place where ultimately I'll just get bored, and it's just not a place to be in my career. Erikka: Yeah. I don't know if I've said this quote before on this podcast, because it's like one of my favorites. So forgive me if it's a repeat, but one of my favorite quotes, because it's so short is iterate or evaporate. Anne: Ooh, I like that. I've never heard that. Erikka: I love it. It's like keep getting better, keep doing things and kind of going back and looking at how you're doing, or you're going to fade away. Anne: That's the nicer way of saying evolve or die. Erikka: Yeah. Exactly. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Which is one of my favorite Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Actually that's so funny. Iterate or evaporate. Okay. So I'm gonna say that from now on. I like that. That's great. Yeah. So any other ways that we can help to self-motivate? Sometimes you just have to go on muscle memory, I think, you know what I mean? And just know as much as you're not feeling it, you're feeling low, you're feeling down, you're depressed maybe because you haven't booked a gig in a while. Just kind of going on memory again, play this podcast, and know that things will change. Things will change if you keep going, keep plugging away, be consistent. I think co consistency is key. Erikka: And remembering that yes, we have all these external factors like, you know, awards and money and all these things we've talked about. But personally, and as an internal factor, remember why you started. You know, why do you love voiceover? Why are you here? Why are you doing this? Why are you spending money on all this equipment and this training? And if you can get back to that love, that drive that got you started, that can be sort of a nice refresh to get you motivated to keep going. Anne: Yeah. What a wonderful way to end on this, Erikka. I love that you said it because when you remember why you got into it in the first place, that passion, that love it comes out in your performance. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: And there's no denying that can vibrate from your soul. Right? The passion and the love that you have for it. It really, I think it's infectious, you know? And it draws people into listening. And so I think that's a really wonderful way. Hey, wanna improve your performance? Remember why you started in the first place, bring that passion back to your reads. Erikka: And that passion might get you booked. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Back -- Erikka: You'd be surprised. Anne: -- your leads, back to your marketing, bring the passion back to every aspect of your business, and it can only grow from there and move up. So. Erikka: You know it, indeed. Anne: Excellent, excellent episode, Erikka. Starting our morning outright with a balanced breakfast. Erikka: Or a balanced conversation for those of who just have simple carbs. Anne: A balanced, balanced motivation. So, ah, I love it. I love it. I love it. So I'd like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also BOSSes, here's a chance for you to use your voice, to make a difference and give back to the communities that give to you. You can find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Erikka: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In order to tell a story, you have to understand it. This week, Anne & Erikka discuss how to harness musicality to make the most out of your reads. Singing can teach you a lot about breath control, pacing, and emotional expression. Taking deep, diaphragmatic breaths will keep your air flow strong. This prevents you from breaking up ideas & phrases with pauses which ultimately interrupt the story you are telling. Knowing your voice and its capabilities can inform your daily workflow & schedule. Tune in to learn how you can harness the power of your voice… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and our balance series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am thrilled to have back special guest co-host Erikka J. Erikka J, yay. Erikka: Hey, Hey Anne. How are you? Anne: We're kind of singing that. Erikka: Yes we are. Anne: You know, you are a singer. And I was thinking about this because I used to play an instrument for many years and I also sang for quite some time. I was an avid choir member and swing choir member as well, kind of like the glee club. And so it's interesting because it affects how I teach voiceover. So I teach voiceover with like conversational melody. And it's very interesting, 'cause I'll talk about, okay, start on your middle C. And then when you're going to inflect important words, that's pretty much just a tiny nuance of a step up. It's not like crazy notes. It's C to a C# or C to a D. And I thought, because you're a singer, we could really have a conversation about how there is a melody to our voice as we are speaking. We're not necessarily singing, but when we're talking and we're communicating, there's absolutely a melody. Erikka: Absolutely. But you have to keep it in balance. You don't wanna get sing-songy because then it starts to sound like, you know, old school commercials and nobody pays attention. It's not conversational anymore. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: But yeah, for sure. Anne: So let me ask you, you were a singer before you were a voice artist? Erikka: Yes. Anne: So what skills that you developed as a vocalist, how do they help you as a voice artist? Erikka: Oh man. So definitely for one was breath control. Anne: Ooh. Erikka: Yes. Anne: That's an important one. Erikka: When you get those really long run on sentences or those big words, and it's like, we gotta make it work or you gotta read speed through the disclaimers or whatever. I'm like, boom. You know, like . Anne: Look, and you just did a nose breath. I love that. I teach nose breath. Erikka: Yeah. I don't even do mouth breath. I don't even think it's automatic. Yeah. Anne: That's awesome. Because, so I talk about nose breath because it helps you to really get a deep diaphragmatic breath. Erikka: Yes. Anne: And there's nothing more powerful, right, than to deliver words when you're not afraid of running out of breath. Right? Erikka: Indeed. Yes. Yes. Because your brain is gonna be like, oh my God, I can't breathe, I can't -- Anne: Right. And that's all you can think about. You can't think about the story you're trying to tell when you're exactly gasping for breath. And honestly, I think there's something to be said for understanding the music before you sing it a little bit or kind of understanding the phrasing of the music, because for me, words and stories are broken up into phrases or clauses as my, my English teacher would say. And in those phrases, you don't wanna run outta breath. You don't wanna like stop. Like I am talking to you all staccato, like William Shatner. . You know, you wanna be able to have that -- here, it's a smooth phrase and I'm just talking. And if you guys, the BOSSes out there, you're listening to this right now is we're talking to one another, we're not breathing in the middle of our words. We're breathing either before we say them or at a comma. And if you run outta breath, like that's all you can think about. So you can't have a conversation while you're continually gasping for breath. Erikka: It's still a balance. Anne: Yeah. Talk to me about those diaphragmatic breaths for you. Erikka: So it's definitely, like I said, the support in being able to get through those long phrases, but it's also, like you said, finding the commas and that's not necessarily the commas that are written on the script. And I think that's important to keep in mind. When you're doing a conversational method of speaking, there are gonna be times when maybe, you know, you're in the middle of thinking. Like I just paused right now and I kind of, you know, I might take a natural breath there and that's okay. So it doesn't have to be, I have one breath for the entire sentence. Just now when I'm speaking, you can hear, there are some points where I'm breathing and it's just natural. You wanna keep the natural breath in there, but not the, oh my God, I ran outta breath, and I gotta breathe. Anne: Oh my God, just, I'm at the end of the, I'm at the end of the sentence now. Erikka: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So those are incredibly supportive. Anne: And it's funny because I had to kind of learn how to breathe even better after I had surgery way back in 2012. And it's interesting. That's when I started really doing nose breaths and diaphragmatic breaths, and it's incredible how confident it makes you feel. And so it really allows you to concentrate on the story that you're telling again. And you can deliver those words. Erikka: Yeah, yeah, I can -- Anne: Just when you want to. Erikka: I can feel them in my posture. Like it actually, like, I feel like it makes me sit up because it's like, your lungs are full, and it's like, I've telling this story. You know, this is my message. And you shall listen to me. Like it's . Anne: Yeah. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And I think it's very similar to swimmers. Like I used to take swimming lessons and be like, okay, how long can you hold your breath underwater? Erikka: Yeah. Anne: It's a muscle that you can develop. So if you are in your booth, and sometimes you just don't anticipate long, unwieldy sentences. Boo on you, because you should understand at least at some point in your analysis of it, right? I always say go through the script like a first grader so that you kinda have an idea of where those long-winded sentences are and you know where you're going to breathe. You kind of have to plan where you're gonna breathe. So it's not at every single comma, but like you said, it can be in implied commas. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And those are the only times you should have to breathe. And the cool thing about this is if you do that, if you breathe only like before you read a sentence or after, or at the commas or implied commas, then you have much less editing to do. And those of us, which I think Erikka, you are with me, we do long format narration a lot, it lessens the amount of editing you have to do afterwards. Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. Anne: And if you're talking about a piece of copy, that is an hour finished audio, right? And you're just getting rid of the big [air intake] before the sentence, versus trying to place those words in the proper place because you ran outta breath and now you're trying to piece it together so it sounds reasonable, well, that's maybe four or five or six movements, right, or edits in your software, not including the ones that you take in the beginning. So if you take a good breath in the beginning, you just wipe that out. That's one movement or one mouse swipe compared to four or five, when you're trying to rearrange sentences to make 'em sound decent, which they never do because you've pieced them together when you've run outta breath. And when you run outta breath, your inflection is off. Erikka: Yes. Yes. You're breaking up the story. And like you, you mentioned the swimming analogy. Another thing that like music kind of taught me was budgeting my breath because it could be, I've taken this deep breath. I might have to hold this long note or a high note. You can't like take a breath and then keep holding the note. It kind of, it kills the vibe. It's the same thing with speaking. If you breathe in the wrong place, it doesn't, it just doesn't work. Anne: Now, I like how you said, hold the note. Like if you get really technical about it, right? Holding the note doesn't necessarily mean that you have sound on the note. Right? So for example, I said, right. And I lengthened that. That's like, I would say an emphasized word, which I attribute to a whole note, right? Versus the words leading up to that important emphasized word, which would be half notes, quarter notes, 16th notes. The ones that aren't as important as the long note that you're holding. So I'm just saying that holding the note, you don't always have to have sound. And what I mean is when you are pausing, notice how I says when you are pausing. Notice how I didn't go when. you are pausing. So you're holding that note and that kind of meshes your words together. That sounds very natural. There's a lot of times when I'll tell people you're on the precipice. Don't cut in between your commas. Don't cut the words off, because what it does is it cuts off the idea of the phrase. Because you don't want it to be here, I am going to talk to you in a very crisp voice. And even though I sound conversational, I'm sounding very articulate. So that holding on the precipice of like, I'm about to, right? I didn't say I am about to. I said, I'm about two. So I held my breath and I think that's important for the natural sounding melody. Erikka: Absolutely makes you sound more relatable. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: And like, you're actually a person and you're not talking at people. You're talking with someone. That's the difference. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Absolutely. Do you have any exercises that you do like that you used to do to warm up when you were singing that are similar for voiceover? Erikka: I am your classic horrible singer in terms of warming up. We are bad about it. And I'm the first to admit. Anne: Now why is that? 'cause there's -- Erikka: We're just lazy. Anne: -- so many exercises. Well, there's so many exercises out there, and it's funny because -- Erikka: I know. Anne: -- it's always like, okay, what should I warm up with? What should I warm up with? And honestly, do I do warmups every single day before I voice something for an audition? I might, if I just got up out of bed. I'm not hydrated or my mouth hasn't moved, you know? Erikka: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anne: So, but other than that, it's funny. Sometimes I do a lot of telephony, and little secret, sometimes I warm up with my telephony jobs 'cause they're short. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: You know what I mean? And so honestly I can say those words and those sentences over and over again. And then that helps me to warm up. But I have a great app on my phone called Appcompanist, which my singing instructor Armie -- I'm gonna actually put a link to her 'cause she's amazing -- she got me turned onto that, but that's like, you can sing your scales, and that's helpful to help you get to a vocal placement that you might want to be in. Erikka: You bring up a good point. That it depends on like what you're about to do, because typically because I know that I'm bad about warming up, and I know some things, like you said, singing scales, like bumblebee to get your, you know, blah, blah, blah, your tongue going too, and then like straw foundation and all those kind of things. Or even just singing a song that you know, is close to your natural range. Like, you don't wanna stretch for really high or really low in your first words of the morning. But if I have something like a quick job, like you said, like telephony or in-store messaging or something, and it's where my voice naturally is when I first wake up, which is kind of lower Viola Davis in the basement, I do start with that work first and work my way up to something that might want more upbeat, more a higher pitch possibly. So I'm very aware of where my natural placement is and maybe what's a stretch for me, and I warm up in that way. Anne: Well, okay. So here's my question, right? So there's little tricks, I think, 'cause I, of course in the morning I, I have a lower voice and I'm like, oh I wanna do the audition in the lower voice or this is a great gig for me in my lower voice. So if I wanna get to my lower voice again, right, I can sing it down there. And when I sing it down there, I'll just, you know, do a scale, and it'll be up to scale. And then ba ba ba, you know, I'll get down to the scale and I can feel where the voice is in my mouth or my throat or in my chest. And interestingly enough, once I feel where it is, I can then use that as a starting point for -- Erikka: Yes, absolutely. Anne: -- my conversational, authentic, believable read. And that's how I get vocal placement to kind of change the start of the read. Now, besides that in terms of song, right, and melody, there's also the emotion. Now back in the day when I was playing piano, me and my best friend played piano together. Now she was amazing. She could sight-read and learn and play these incredibly complex classical pieces of music. And it used to always like, competitive Anne, I used to always get like, mm okay, fine. But my teacher used to always make me feel better because she said you have the feeling. You have the passion. And I think that understanding that along with melody, there's passion and nuance and emotion. So if you wanna get yourself to another place, another read along with vocal placement, you can then decide to understand the story and start from a different place in the scene or have a different reaction to it. And that means a different emotion to it. And that's gonna color the melody of the song differently. Erikka: Yeah. And absolutely like you mentioned kind of knowing where the voice is gonna come from. So as you're doing your script analysis, you can kind of think about where this character, you know, even if it's not character work, it's still a character 'cause you're reading as someone else, other than yourself -- where does that live? If it's very sort of determined and you know, gritty, it might be in your chest. It might even be more down in your gut. Like you said, it might be a little more in the throat if it's kind of mid and if it's, you know, really super upbeat and you're excited and it's like a sales presentation, you might be a little more in the nose or the head. So yeah. Thinking about where that vocal placement is gonna be, that's going to tell the story from that character's point of view, is key. Anne: Yeah. And I think vocal placement, like singing-wise, for me, gets me to the starting point. Then it becomes the story, and it becomes the emotion and the character, which I'm so glad you brought up character, because character's so important. Now when you sing, did you think you were a character? I mean, that's just a question I have. Were you placing yourself in a scene or is it just the melody of the song carried you? Erikka: You know, it's very funny you say that because what was always sort of my strong point and what I would talk about in interviews for my musical performances is that I really honed in on the feeling. And I think that was why I was able to translate into voiceover so seamlessly was because I was always coming from the place of story. And if my voice cracked or something, I just kind of, you know, I hated it 'cause I'm like competitive, like you and I'm like, I wanna be perfect, but I'm like, that may have gone with the story. So it was very much from the place of feeling. And my goal was to make you feel this story when I was sang it. I loved making people cry like. Anne: Right, right, right. Erikka: I would find a way to connect with the lyrics and the way that singing the notes and the melody from the place of that emotion and not necessarily quite so technical. Anne: Isn't that awesome? Like the more you really study music and voiceover, and it comes down to what's important? What is it that connects with the people who are listening to you? It ultimately comes out to be the storytelling, the emotion. Because that's what connects us, I think, as humans. And again, those of you out there that are afraid of AI, it's nowhere near coming to that human emotion, which is where we're always gonna win out. And we're always gonna win out for those people who decide that they want to hire that. Right? To connect to an audience. And so I think we always have that humanity. We have that feeling, that emotion, that nuance, that connects with our audience, and that's what we have to work on, I think, in our voiceover careers, if we want to continue to be successful while we are evolving along with AI voices, which have their place in certain, I think, genres. They're going to have their place. I mean, I say this because I talk to Alexa every day. Do you know what I mean? And I'm okay with Alexa's voice. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Alexa helps me get things done. And so I really do believe that the market will shift. But we always need to connect with the heart and the emotion. And it's so interesting that you vocally through singing as well as storytelling and voiceover, it all comes down to that. Erikka: Yeah. You have to make it personal. And that's, you know, kind of what we hear in, in voiceover is you have to connect to the story. And the songs that I found that were my favorite, and that I could tell were the most impactful were the ones where I found a personal connection to it. And I enjoyed like, it felt like a push. Like I literally would feel less anxious because I got that energy outta my body because I was literally like in it. And when you do the same thing, you can do the same thing with these scripts and voiceover, it's going to be more connected. It's going to naturally have a more balanced melody that sounds human because you've connected with it on a human level. So. Anne: And even though we talk about melody of conversation, there's that uniqueness of you, what you bring to it. Erikka: Yes. Anne: Even when we talk about character, I think sometimes when I talk to people about character, they think about cartoon characters, right? And they're playing another persona. Well, maybe they are, but there's always an element of you that is brought along with that character. And, and for, let's say more nuanced type of genres like corporate narration, eLearning, you're still a character. You're just maybe not as dramatic. In corporate, you're probably always gonna work for the company. You'll be a representative of the company, and in eLearning you're gonna be a teacher. And so those are characters, and those characters have emotions and feelings, and that's the special part that you and you alone can bring to the party, and to make it so uniquely yours where people say, I need to have an Erikka J to narrate that. I need to have an Anne Ganguzza to teach that. Whatever that is, it's that understanding of a vocal placement with a nuance of emotion and telling a story. Erikka: Yep. Absolutely. Anne: So let me ask you a question. Are you still pursuing, singing at all or singing in your voiceover? Erikka: You know, I've had a couple actually jobs and auditions where I've gotten the opportunity to sing as well. So I like that kind of keeps me fresh, but I haven't been pursuing it as much. I love music. I mean, it is definitely what got me here. My first love from way back when I was tiny, but it got to be a lot of, a lot of work with not a lot of return. Anne: Sure, right. That's tough. Erikka: Not as much as voiceover, it is. So maybe when my plate lightens up a little bit, I've thought about, you know, eh, maybe we'll, we'll do a little more music again, but for now it's really voiceover is the thing. Anne: I was like, why don't they bring jingles back? I feel like they're so identifiable. Erikka: I just did one. I just did one like a week ago. Anne: Did you? Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Wow. Erikka: Yeah. It wasn't super corny at all, but yeah, there are very few in far in between, but yeah, I do get a couple. Anne: And I think, you know, in certain genres too, singing can help. Maybe with kids, genres that are, they're talking to kids, there can be more melody in it. Erikka: Oh yeah. Animation for sure. Anne: Yeah. You know, there's melody in everything, in the speaking language. And I think a lot of people don't even think of it in terms of melody. They just think of it in terms of reading words. And there's so much more to it, and I can't stress enough the importance of understanding the story before you tell it. A lot of us just pick up a script and we start reading from left to right. And you don't know what the story is when that happens. And so how can you have any connection to it or how can you have any emotion about it if you don't know what it's about? And so I think that's the last layer. So many people they think about melody in terms of it should sound like this. Erikka: Yeah, exactly. Anne: But in, in reality, the sound has to be natural. The sound has to come from you organically when you are telling a story, not so much in, it should sound like this, you know? Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Because then it just, what happens is you're spending so much time. I think thinking about what it should sound like, that you take away from the amount of time you have to understand the story and then tell it. 'Cause in order to tell it, you've gotta understand it. In order to understand it. You've gotta read it. Right? Erikka: Yep. Anne: But not as a take, you gotta read it first, understand it, comprehend it and then tell it back, right? That's how we tell stories. Right? We have experiences and then we recall that experience and we tell it back. So how can you take words off a page if you don't know what they say and tell that story? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. And probably reading it at least two or three times. And you know, maybe to yourself, as well as out loud and not performing it so that you are just, again, internalizing that story and really understanding it, having the reading comprehension of it, where sometimes I've noticed that I might switch a word around or I might do a contraction because I'm not even reading it anymore. You know, and of course your client will tell you if it's like, oh, we really need it to say can not, and then you'll go back and fix it. But to me that has been a clue that like I'm really into the story. Not like a true misread, like something that's, you know, really integral to the message. But if I'm naturally contracting something, it's like, okay, my brain's on auto pilot. And I really understand what I'm saying. So making sure that you're balancing that melody and rhythm. Anne: Yeah. I think for me with corporate, I do so much corporate that I've kind of gotten away from the contractualization. Not that I don't wanna do it. It's just simply usually those of the scripts that, and e-learning are usually they go through so many rounds of approvals. That's true. And if it's written one way, I pretty much just voice it. But what I will do yeah. Is if I do feel a contraction will make it sound easier, I will give that as an alternate take. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: Hopefully that just is you, by the way, in case you wanted this, they have it. And then they're like, oh, that Anne, she takes care of us. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: She's wonderful. Let's hire her again and again and again. Erikka: And as corporate is becoming increasingly conversational and they wanna really relate to their employee base, I find that they're more open and amenable to that stuff, but great point that some of this stuff is really locked down because of legal. Um, so yeah. Anne: Also the thing is with corporate, because again with corporate, just, there's such a vast amount of corporate work. The companies that know how to story tell with their brand will write good scripts. And so you won't have those run on sentences. You won't have things that maybe aren't contractualized that will sound awkward. They hire copywriters that will write something that will sound good when it gets put on production. So. Erikka: Yep. Agreed. Anne: Yeah, it's a thing. So there is a thing, guys, BOSSes out there, called melody, and it does affect our performance. And so try not to think so much about the technicality of it, but understanding how technically there are certain things that happen in a conversational melody that in order to sound natural, dictate how we're going to tell that story. So we're not gonna be too high or too dramatic with our changes in notes. We're gonna start in a certain placement and then just concentrate on telling that story. And I think the melody will follow. Erikka: Indeed. Couldn't have said it better myself. The more that you're naturally connected, that melody is just gonna come out in the way that it should be, because it'll be natural for you. Anne: Such a cool conversation. I love talking about conversational melody. Erikka: Love it. Anne: Yeah. So BOSSes, a good way to really start to understand it is just listen to two people, having a conversation, for example, listen to all the episodes of VO BOSS. And you can really start to break apart what does conversations sound like? And you'll know that unless we're really excited, we don't go very high, and we have all sorts of rhythm besides just the pitch. That's all about rhythm and timing and imperfection, believe it or not. You know, I wish I was speaking Pulitzer Prize-winning sentences, but I don't. And therefore that causes the rhythm and the timing and the pacing and all sorts of things to make it sound just natural and believable. So thanks, Erikka, for a really cool conversation. Erikka: Thank you, Anne. This is lovely. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. So BOSSes out there, you can make a huge difference in someone's life for a small, quarterly contribution. And you might think that as a small company, you can't make a huge difference, but you really can. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. And of course, a huge shout out to my favorite, favorite networking sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and sound like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Thanks so much, BOSSes. Have a wonderful week. Erikka: Bye! Anne: See you next week. Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

There is no perfect voice for a genre. This week, Anne & Erikka let you in on the secret of genre exploration. Every genre has sub-genres and adjacent genres, but you'll never know which ones work for you without trying a few out. Examine what kind of work you are drawn to and where your passions lie. That will inform what jobs creatively challenge you vs. ones that make you feel stagnant. As Anne advises, always follow your passions. With a growth mindset, focus on the message you send with each script + a little help from your Balance hosts, you'll be on the path to success! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am with the lovely and talented Erikka J this morning. Erikka: Hello! Anne: Hey Erikka. Erikka: How are you, Anne? Anne: I'm doing good. How's it going with you? Erikka: Going pretty good, man. Hanging out, you know, just another day in voiceover land. Anne: There you go. Another day in voiceover land. And it's so funny because we're so like, oh yeah, this is our day. This is what we're gonna do. We've got our auditions to knock out. We're gonna go find some new clients. We're gonna be working in the booth. I do have a lot of students that always ask me when they just get involved in the industry, well, first of all, how do I know that I have what it takes? And what genre, what is my niche? Where do I go in this industry? And for me, that's always a wonderful question of self discovery. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: I think there's lots of ways to find your niche in this industry, but I think it would be a good topic to talk about how we found our niches and what our recommendations are for BOSSes out there that are just getting involved. Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. Balancing to let the genre find you. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I think that it's kind of like letting your brand find you too. I think they're very similar. They're on parallel paths. And I know for me, the genres that I ended up doing, number one, I'm a big believer in following my passion. I've been that way all my life. Now, I don't know if that's just a thing that I just decided to listen to since I was young, but I've always followed things that I've enjoyed doing and found joy in doing, and I followed my passion. When I was young, I played music, I played piano. I had a love affair with horses. I owned a couple of horses, rode horses as a little girl. I would teach my dolls. All these things that I loved, I did and I explored, and I have to say that the same is true in my career. As I went to school, what I studied, what I ended up working in, in the corporate world, and in the educational world. And then ultimately I've found that I've been able to kind of bring it all together in voiceover. Because for example, I love to teach. As a little girl, I taught my dolls. I ended up 20 years being an educator in front of the classroom for kids, adults, college kids. And I find that I love eLearning. So the genre is kind of paralleling where my joys were and where my experiences brought me to. So eLearning, I worked in corporate for a short amount of time and then did a lot of corporate consulting. And so I love the corporate read. All of those things have kind of allowed me to do the things that I love to do. And obviously, because I love to teach, I'm a coach as well. And so for my business that is so wonderfully my own. And I feel so lucky and so joyful that I am able to do what I love and be able to support the household be able to support myself with it. So what are your thoughts, Erikka, on how do you find your genre? How did you find your genre? Erikka: Yeah. Very similar. Anne: Or genres. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. So for me, like I'm always like somewhat ADD with my interests. Like I like that. Ooh. And I like that, and I like that, and I like that so , but sort of my foundation and where I started, I had worked in corporate for quite some time and still do, in primarily in tech sectors. So I absolutely adore tech explainers or products because a big part of what I did as a project manager, sort of understanding the layout and then also breaking down requirements so that when somebody says, I want a widget that does this, having to break it down and be like, okay, so you want this to come out, kind of breaking that down for the user and putting it in layman's terms, so to speak. I enjoy doing that sort of breakdown, but maybe in shorter forms. So as opposed to like where you're talking about how you love eLearning, I'll do some eLearning, but I really love like the short form 90-second, let me help you understand this thing and what it does. And, you know, taking something complex and making it super simple to understand. I love that stuff. So that's really where I started. Corporate narration, same thing. Because of coming from the musical background, which essentially is storytelling in usually three to six minutes, see for a really long song in six minutes, but that's why I love like the commercial work or the short corporate narrations where, you know, I'm really sort of telling a story, sometimes getting more dramatic or using comedy to be able to tell those stories in a short amount of time, it just aligned with where my experience was and what I enjoyed doing. So those were sort of my foundations along with video games, love games, played games a lot as a kid, not as much now as I'd like, . I'm surrounded by gamers in my house. So constantly watching that. And I lean towards the dramatic and the dark more than the comedy. So I like using that, but yeah, those are kind of like my genres that hit me in the narration. Just loving to tell stories. Those are -- Anne: Yeah. I love that. And I think anybody that's just starting out in this industry, take a look at who you are from young age on up and where you've evolved and if you've followed those joys or those things that you really enjoy doing, and then try to translate into genres for voiceover. Or not even just for voiceover for your business, you know, the other part, it's not just the genres, right? But it's also letting the entrepreneurship follow you. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: There's the whole period of my life where I like to solve problems. I mean, you and I were both in technology, right? It's always solving problems and I also have an engineering background. And so because of that, I love the whole entrepreneur owning a business, kind of a thing, where I'm excited to build things, to build my business, to see where I can grow, where I can expand, how I can achieve success, how I can continue to reinvest in my business and grow in my business. I think that's the most important thing for me is if I am stagnant -- it's like, for me, I'm building a character, but I'm really building a business, right? Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Anne: I keep adding to the story, and I have to keep evolving the character. I have to keep evolving the character of my business. And for me, if I don't, if I become stagnant, then number one, it's boring. And I don't do well with boring. But number two, it always allows me to grow kind of the whole, think of how do I make money the whole, how do I make money challenge? I even do like a class on money blocks where some of us have built in money blocks from long ago where maybe women weren't supposed to be earning as much as men or those types of things or the way you were brought up, the male was the breadwinner. Don't be greedy. That kind of thing. Well, I consider it part of the entrepreneurial game, right, how to make money with my business. And so it's not that money is like my first love, but I think it's the challenge of the game to be able to invest my money and then make a profit. And so I think what we all want to do with our businesses is to make a profit. And so that also evolves. And that was part of my personality. A big part of my personality is loving to solve challenges and solving problems. Yeah, I took that right into my business. Erikka: Yeah. I love that you said self discovery 'cause that's something that I talk about often too, is that you have to figure out sort of who you are as a person. And that kind of leads you to who you are as an artist. And as that evolves and develops, staying in touch with that is gonna tell you when maybe a genre isn't for you or if a genre isn't necessarily your primary. Like for instance, I love reading. I never get enough time to do it as much as I'd like, but I am not really into doing audiobooks. I know that I like the short form stuff. My attention span gets like mmh, so it's just not for me, even though I love books and I fully appreciate them, but it's not for me to do that as narrating. I had learned that about myself and be okay with it. In coming from a performance background, I discovered live announce was something that I really enjoyed. I'm used to being able to, you know, like on the fly, something live might happen and you've gotta be able to react and not be flustered. I did that on stage. So I was like, huh, didn't even know this would really be a thing for me. Anne: That's a special skill. Erikka: Right. Yeah. Yeah. So. Anne: The whole live thing. Erikka: That self discovery is really key to letting that genre. And your business, like you said, it's a persona, but you're building a brand your brand has an identity. It's a story. So you've gotta know who you are that's gonna align with the brand that you're building. Anne: Absolutely, absolutely. And interesting that you said being the voice of God. So back in the day, when I used to have to record onto phone systems, you had to do it live. And so you had to be on. If you screwed up the prompt in the middle of it, you had to start all over again. So there's a special skill in being able to, to be quick on your feet and to execute without mistakes. To me, if I were figuring out my rate sheet for that, that becomes a factor in the special skills like for medical narration. I mean, I worked in the orthopedic industry for six years, you know? And so I love medical narration, and that kind of found me. I mean, I kind of evolved because I started off in the engineering aspect of things. And then it kind of brought me into a narrower focus with biomechanical engineering at my job at the orthopedic company, which then ultimately translated into medical narration here. And the medical narration has expanded so that I'm not just talking orthopedics, and I'm certainly not a doctor, but the challenge therein lies in learning and discovering new topics in medicine that also I find I love to do that discovery, and that translates to my voice. So if somebody were to say what genre, I think really it can be any genre that you find that joy of discovery or that joy in. And sometimes you don't know it until you've tried it. Like you said, for the voice of God, you didn't know, right? Until you tried it and then you realized, oh wow, this is something that my theater training has prepared me for. And so I think every one of us should explore different genres. That's why I think workshops and sessions are a great thing. And one of the reasons why I developed the VO peeps so that I could have special, amazing guest directors come in from all different genres so that my community could have a lot to choose from and a lot to experience, a lot to explore and a lot to learn. And I think that letting the genre find you, finding what you enjoy doing, I think is probably at the very core of it. And you know, for me, like you were saying audiobooks, I did one audiobook and then I said, nope, not for me. I've kind of found the things that I love to do, but again, I don't wanna close my mind to trying new things. So for right now I've done a little bit of character work, but I've not really expanded into animation or even into like promo as much. But I know that I've got an interest in it. And it's something that I wanna look at. Erikka: And that's why I think that workshops are such a valuable tool to use in the beginning or as you start to make a foray into different genres, because it's more cost effective. Right? Anne: Yeah. Erikka: Usually they cost less because it's a group as opposed to like one-on-one coaching. You're able to hear what other people are doing and how they're getting directed, seeing all types of different coffee, experimenting with different directors, different coaches in these group settings. And that way you can kind of see like, is this really my thing? Like for me, promo, I sort of assume that since I have this lower register voice that, you know, has a lot of power behind it, that it might be something I really wanna do. And I always love beating the boys if I can, no offense. But... Anne: Hey, I hear that. Erikka: You know what I mean? And it is still something I wanna get into, but I found that it ended up being lower on my priority list because I wasn't getting as much traction as I was in other areas I was moving faster. So I was like, you know, maybe let me really refine and kind of get to expert level and everything else and consistently look. And then I'll come back around to promo. So it can help you prioritize your genre list as well. Anne: I like that you were talking about kind of letting it find you and you were getting hired in other genres. That's a really good indicator to find out what genre you might pursue in a more targeted, strategic fashion is what do you tend to get hired for? Do you tend to get hired for explainer videos? Do you tend to get hired for those one-off commercials, or do you tend to get hired for audio books? Whatever that might be, might be the genre that you really flourish in. And again, it doesn't have to be just one genre, but again, it shouldn't be every genre. I really don't know many voiceover artists that do every single genre. I think we all tend to just narrow down the focus a little bit and it doesn't have to be just two genres or, you know, it can be like narration. There's a lot of closely related -- corporate explainers are very closely to corporate narration. It's very close to corporate training, which is very close to medical narration. It's all part of the corporate world anyway. So all of that really kind of works for me. So there's multiple genres there that I can excel and flourish in. And then explore the ones that I haven't really had time to do before, because I've been working so much in these other genres, like character or promo or imaging. Like see, I've always wanted to do radio imaging, but I've never even tried it, like never But I'm always like, I wanna sound cool. So for me, I'd be like, oh, that would be a cool sound, but I've never tried it. I've always been a little shy actually. Erikka: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anne: About it, but I don't wanna not try. Erikka: Exactly. And that's the thing is like, unless you really do it and you're like, this is not my thing -- I feel like audio books are probably off the table for me, other than I did like a couple kids books. And I have like a couple like mid-length books that I've entertained or that I'm like, I might just do this one. It's, you know, public domain. I'll do it as a passion project one day just to kind of practice. But if I get one that's expected to be like 12 hours of audio, like I'm not gonna do the 48 Laws of Power. I know I'm not gonna be able to do something that long. God bless the voice actors that have that type of stamina. I know I don't. And I'm okay with it. Anne: You know, where I might go because I love the geeky stuff all the time, right, if there was a book that was completely geeky about, I don't know, a business book. And if it was something that I would discover as I read, I think that that could work, but the editing I would have to outsource. . Erikka: Yeah. I just, I just don't think I could, maybe that answer will change in a few years for me, even though I love reading it and consuming it or listening to audio books. Anne: Sure. Erikka: I just wanna be in and out. I just wanna get it done and to be done. Anne: Yeah. Well, I think it's important that we don't get complacent. Erikka: Yes. Agreed. Anne: And for me, that's just always been a thing where I haven't felt comfortable when I get complacent. I think I get nervous. Maybe it's more that than bored or maybe it's a combination of both, right? I don't wanna get complacent in one job for too long. And, and to be honest with you, my 20 years in education, I think my job, I had actually, believe it or not, in my job, there were certain levels that I traversed. And I went from getting my hands dirty and learning a bunch of stuff and really challenging like, oh, why does the network not work here? Oh, let me go and dig the wiring or look at the wiring in the ceiling and see what's going on there. And I love the whole challenge of that, kind of getting my hands dirty. Ultimately I started, year after year, I would, I would advance, you know, then I would go into like the networking. Then I would go into the administration. And then ultimately at the last part of my career, I was a project manager. And at that point, I wasn't getting my hands dirty anymore. I was managing people who were getting their hands dirty. And for me, I found out that that was not where I flourished. For me, I wanted that challenge of getting my hands dirty, figuring out the solution, not necessarily managing people. And at that point in my career, I had started to become a little bit restless. And that's when I really said to myself, well, I need to do something that's gonna allow me to grow. And I think that selecting your genre and balancing your genres or your performance or discovering what that is really comes with a lot of self-reflection in what it is that brings you joy and what it is that you're getting hired., a combination of that, what it is you're getting hired for. And if you're just starting out, try to focus on what are your past experiences. Like for me, I had experience teaching, which led me into e-learning. I had experience working for an orthopedic company, which led me to medical. I installed phone systems as part of my job that led me to a lot of telephony. So take a look at your experience and see what genre that might lend itself to, because when you can speak with familiarity and with confidence about something, it's going to be reflected in your voice. And that I think is gonna make you good at what you do. Erikka: Absolutely. And the other thing is to like not necessarily write off an entire genre to maybe to explore the sub genres, right. 'Cause like there's animation and I really kind of thought animation was off the table for me. I was like, everybody wants to do that when they come in, eh. Maybe video games, which I do think that that's still more my lane than animation. What I love, I love doing the villain stuff in animation. So I'm not really necessarily gonna too often -- I don't really see myself doing like the 14-year-old boy, like some women are able to do, but gimme a villain role I'm in and I'm excited about it. Anne: Now psychologically, Erikka, why is that? Where is that? Because that relief of tension -- Erikka: -- in real life. Anne: That's right. And then the alter ego kicks in. Erikka: So then I get to rrr, you know, it's fun. Anne: Yeah. Well, Hey, there's a creative challenge. And I think that, so BOSSes, we are all brilliant. Right? We are all brilliant people. This is the way I like to think of it. Right? We like the creative challenges. And so what is it that challenges you? What is it that you think will give you a challenge that you will enjoy? And so for me, the medical, of course it's because I feel like I'm helping somebody. I feel like if I do a voiceover for anything medical, right, it's helping somebody. But even more than that, there's like that challenge of, okay, what's the largest word that I can say eloquently? Erikka: The verbal acrobatics (?) of medical. Anne: Effortlessly? There you go. That to me is like, ooh, it's such a challenge. And I love it. Like I dig right in once I get a medical script and there's all these words. I dig in and I create my little phonetic spellings and I practice it so I can say it effortlessly, so it sounds like I'm a doctor. But that sort of stuff, I think letting the genre find you and letting your joy find the genre too is something to really think about. And so is there a voice for a genre? I don't think so. I think a lot of people consider like, oh, to do promo, I have to have a low voice. What are your thoughts on that, Erikka? Erikka: So not true. And the thing is that the more that you study the genre that you're trying to get into, and I don't just mean workshops and being coached, but I mean actually like watching TV, like going to watch the promos that are on -- it's been such a male-dominated genre historically that we just assume you have to "come in there and sound like this, tonight at eight." And that's just not it not now. So like I've heard women with much lighter voices than me that are super conversational to the point of sounding like a commercial, and they're booking promo. So I think that was a challenge for me and kind of was why I wasn't booking there at first because I had the idea of what it supposed to be, instead of bringing more of the authenticity to it. The reads are much closer to commercial now for promo, finding a promo voice. Anne: I love the whole authentic thing do and because -- Erikka: Yeah, me too. Anne: -- I think that voiceover artists, like in the beginning, it was always like, for me, when I got behind a mic, I was like, ooh, my voice is amplified. Erikka: Oh my goodness. Anne: And then I was like, I like to hear that in my ears, you know? 'Cause it was something like, I think sounds good or that somebody would want to hear. And I love the whole "let's get back to being authentic and being ourselves." Some of the most beautiful stuff that I've listened to is not a voice that many would consider to be like, oh a voiceover voice. Every time somebody asks me on one of my consult calls, so do you think I have what it takes or do you think I've got the voice? And I'm like, it really honestly, you know, and I've said this before, BOSSes, you guys, if you've listened to the podcast, it's only the first few seconds, maybe 15 to 20 seconds, 30 seconds that people are listening to what your voice actually sounds like. And then all they care about is what you're saying. Right? And what does it mean and is it of interest to them? And that connection that your voice has to them and how it can help them, that's really where it all counts. And I think that's why the authentic, the genuine is what sells, you know, in advertising, and it's what connects people together. And I think that's what we all, as humans, we really want. And a lot of this talk about the AI voice, there's going to be a place for that. And I know Erikka, we could have a whole podcast episode on this. There's definitely a place for that, but only when it's transparent. And I know that I'm talking to a voice that is not a human voice. Like, well, I talk to Alexa all the time. I talk to Siri all the time and I'm okay with it. Siri helps me, Siri has a job to do and she helps me. So when I don't necessarily need a human to help me, I am okay with that. But for everything else, right, our human voices need to connect. And I think that's one of the most important things. What genre can you divulge your authenticity in and connect with the audience of that genre. 'Cause different genres have different audiences. There's a different audience for corporate training than there is for promo. Right? People listening to promo voices are trying to find out information of what's on television. What's the next exciting thing? Or maybe it's like, oh what's happening next on HGTV? Right, there's your in-show narration. So depending on the genre, there's different audiences. So figure out not only what genre excites you, but know who is listening to the genre and who your audience is, because that's where that connection's gonna happen. Erikka: Yeah. And I think it's important to not limit yourself mentally and just say, well, oh, I'm not gonna do that. But try it. Like I said, like the audio books, I did a couple of kid books. I did a couple of mid-length narration for like news and I enjoyed that, but I was like, I couldn't do much more than this. So I know it's not for me. But like if you don't even give yourself the opportunity to see if you would like it, you might miss out on something that you're really good at. And/or like if medical intimidates, you try it anyway because those skills can translate. So if you're practicing reading multisyllabic words, you know, you finally get it, imagine how much better you're gonna read commercial copy now because you exercised your mouth to be able to get those kind of words out. So now when you get to just sort of regular English, you're gonna have that skill that you can translate into another genre. So I think it's good like you said, to just stay limb, stay flexible, learn how to play, not get stagnant ,and play with other genres, but know what your primaries are. And if you do have hard boundaries to just know, like that's not for me, . Anne: That's not for me. I know a lot of students in the beginning will spend a lot of time like investigating all the genres. And I love that. I think there's lots of good things to be said for that. But then there's also students who might spend time in every genre because they're afraid to start. That might be another podcast, but at least I think exploring the other genres, taking a few classes in the genres. I mean, I took some promo classes with a coach that I loved. I've really explored. I've taken some audiobook classes I've taken -- like I said, the one thing I haven't done is radio imaging, but I know a lot of people that do radio imaging, and I'm still like thinking about, oh, that's kind of like such a older genre. I'm not sure how well it's faring these days. Because I do believe I heard you . Erikka: I did do -- Anne: I heard you the other day. Yes I did. So it's very cool. Erikka: But that was fun. Like it taught me how to play better. Like, and I actually did a little bit of character development and I've taken that into some commercial copy. So. Anne: Well, that's an excellent point about that because the crazier and the more dynamic your character is in imaging, it really can help you in other genres. And I think a lot of times people that take my corporate narration, 'cause I'm always teaching how to be the real authentic voice. And that's not what people expect with narration. They expect to have a narrator's voice, and I'm like, no let's connect people. And so they can take that technique that they use in narration and apply it to commercial. Because learning how to be real and authentic with words that aren't yours is something that applies to every genre. So BOSSes, if you're out there trying to discover that genre, make sure that you are also getting those skills that allow you the acting to be real and authentic in those genres. So take acting classes, get coached on it. That'll do nothing but help you in any genre you decide to pursue. Erikka: And corporate narration I'm finding is increasingly having more opportunities for us to play. So it's obviously gonna be corporate to an extent, but I've seen some copy where it's like, they kind of want you to have the joke, land the joke, you know, be a little funnier, be a little more, you know, laid back. Anne: Or be dramatic, be passionate. Erikka: Be dramatic. Yes, absolutely. Anne: Yep. That's the corporate gold I've always talking about. It's good stuff. Erikka: Yep. Anne: So yeah guys, what genre are you? Erikka: Yeah. And prioritizing them. Yeah. Anne: Yeah. Look back, look at your passion. What brings you joy? And don't forget that even though you have genres, if you do have genres that you're already pretty well settled into and familiar with, don't forget to always play in other genres 'cause you just never know. You never know. Good stuff. So question for you, BOSSes, do you have a local nonprofit that is close to your heart? Because if you do, and if you want to help them, you can join an organization called 100voiceswhocare.org and help them extensively even if you don't have a lot to contribute. So find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. And big shout-out to ipDTL, our favorite way to connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. All right, BOSSes. Have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Erikka: Bye BOSSes. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Prioritization is the most important skill for entrepreneurs. In this episode, Anne & Erikka go through the essential skills you need to balance multiple careers. Whether you are working from home or juggling a corporate and creative career, you can't forget to take time for yourself. Breathe, and know that once you step in the booth, the time you spent recharging on a small break between meetings will pay off. Career balance includes finances, family, personal needs, passion and most importantly a long term vision of your career… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the balance series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited to bring back to the show as always the lovely and talented Erikka J. Hey Erikka. Erikka: Hey Anne, how are you? Anne: I'm doing good. It's been a busy week. How about yourself? Erikka: Oh yeah, definitely been busy and prepping for another busy one. So, you know, as you know, I've got my corporate job, I've got my kids, my family, I'm pregnant and you know, I've got voiceover, which is like, you know -- Anne: Voiceover. Erikka: -- all in its own, a big old thing. And we've got a holiday coming up soon here. So holidays, everybody likes to get their work in before everybody goes out. So, I got tons of meetings and stuff and projects at the job. I've got tons of sessions next week for voiceover, and I am just really finding ways to balance it all, 'cause it's a lot. Anne: Look, I know that when I had a corporate job and I was doing voiceover part-time it was the hardest thing. As a matter of fact, whenever I talk to a student that comes to me, I'll just say it is very, very difficult to dedicate time to voiceover when you've got a full-time job and your career that you're already engaged in. And I look at you, and I'm like, my gosh, because you've got the family on top of that, and you're in It just the way I was. So I know how crazy it was for me. I'd love to talk about how you balance your careers and be so successful at all of them and your family. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. I actually just a couple weeks ago or so talked to eVOcation about this, different strategies and things. One of the biggest ones, and something is kind of like a lesson for my corporate career, is prioritization because sort of accepting and knowing that you can't do it all -- and that's whether you have a job or not even just being in VO, probably not gonna be able to get to every single audition, especially if you wanna make sure you get the jobs done and all of your marketing work and all of that. So being able to prioritize appropriately and know like what's first to do. Anne: All right. So when I know that and I know you've got a number of agents, and they're all vying for you, right? Especially when you're doing well. And I know you're on a really great success track, and I'm so happy. I know what it's like when I can't do an audition for my agent. Like, it's almost like, oh my God. Yeah. Oh no. You know, and I feel bad, I feel guilty. And sometimes they'll write me and say, where is it? Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anne: And so how do you deal with that? That's gotta be something. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Like how do you prioritize? Erikka: That's a great point for me. Definitely the ones for my agent are number one. I very rarely, these days audition on Voice 123, where I am present. But I rarely am going on there to find jobs to audition for. It's more like if somebody DM's me either for a job or for an audition, or I get like one of those client invitations where they've specifically said, Erikka, we'd like for you to audition for this. And even those, they're last on my list. Agents, managers, theirs get number one. When I do have to kind of look at those and say, okay, I might need to prioritize, I got a ton of them today, I do wanna make sure that it's the right audition for me. And I'm trusting 9 times outta 10, the ones are sending me are great. But you know, if I'm really not sure, or if I'm not really filling the script, or they kind of like want it read three times and it's rather long, I might email and say, hey, I'm gonna pass on this one. And they usually understand because I don't do it often. So yeah. That's how I prioritize that. Anne: Right. Well, I think you probably prioritize agents too. I mean, in my certain cases, I have agents that are more local to me in LA, and I have to prioritize those agents that are local and the ones that I'm booking with. There are some other agents that, how do I say it? They're not not important. It's just that I have agents that I kind of, I have to prioritize them, if they're more local to me and they expect that as well. Erikka: Yeah. Absolutely. Your mother agency, they call it, you know, like that's -- Anne: Yeah, yes, exactly. Your mother agency. Yep. They do. They get dibs and they get priority. And so if there are five auditions that come out, and one of them is from the mothership, if I can only do one, that's the one that gets it. Erikka: That's the one. Yep. And you can look at things like the job you want too like for the rate or like, you know, if it's like a category or a brand you've really been wanting to work for, like that can help you with those prioritizations decisions as well. But yeah, definitely take care of your mother agency. Anne: Now you also go into work, right? You have to go into work or are you working from home? Erikka: No. The only way I'm able to do this is because I'm full remote right now. And I have been for three years. Yeah. Anne: Okay. That's great. That's great, 'cause I know some IT, you have to be there because you physically have to be present to take care of equipment or something like that, but you can do everything from home. That I think is one advantage of the pandemic for people that have been working full time, if you have been kind of re-homed to a home office, I think that that actually is a benefit for people who are looking to get into voiceover because you can sneak away to your studio to do a 5 or 10-minute audition. That was something I did not have the luxury of doing when I worked in IT, because I had to be on site on premise, even though a lot of my time I was doing remote work, but I also had to be there to physically turn machines on and off or, you know, install machines and that sort of thing. So I do think that that is one of the biggest advantages from the pandemic, if you are now able to work from home, having a voiceover career as well is a lot more accessible. Erikka: Absolutely. And that was something that I brought up in my talk is that yes, I fully recognize that not everybody has my position, and I feel very blessed that I'm able to work 100% from home. And even now like my position, it's more like product management. So I'm in software. So thank goodness I don't have any hardware that I have to be physically present to manage. But now after the pandemic, there are an increasing amount of remote jobs. So it's not just necessarily me. It's like jobs that were not remote before, these companies are recognizing that they're able to retain their talent better if they're able to offer that sort of perk. And actually a lot of people are more productive when they do their corporate jobs from home in the corporate work. So yeah, it definitely allows me the flexibility to come in and outta the booth. Like my desk is over there, my booth is here, and I just back and forth between meetings and sessions and auditions. And it's crazy, but yeah. Anne: But here's an important session though. How do you turn it off? Right? You're at your home. So where's the family part of that and that family balance come in? How do you work with that? Because that's gotta be tough. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a couple things. For one, in the beginning, I was very, very -- I'm already a workaholic, so... Anne: Hah. My name is Anne Ganguzza, and I am a workaholic. Erikka: Hi Anne. Welcome. Anne: Yes. I'm right there with you. Erikka: So I mean, they already knew that I was like that, but I was kind of in overdrive and my family was like, hey, you need to chill, Erikka. You know? So like I did have to find the places to set boundaries. Like I mentioned that I had a recurring great client that had booked me for a Sunday once, and I did it that one time, but I said for the future, I really don't do sessions on Sundays. And they were like, oh, okay. And it was great. So now I know that that day is like set aside for myself -- Anne: That's my day too. Erikka: -- my family. Sundays, I generally don't do anything unless it's like huge. And I tell them, and I'm like, this is huge. And they're like, okay. They have to be on board too I think is the big thing. Like they understand this industry. They've seen how hard I work. They know it gives me flexibility with other things. I was able to pay off my debt because of voiceover, so that helps us all. So having them on board and setting boundaries so that you do have some special time with them is really important. Anne: I agree. You know, the Sunday is my boundary. The workaholic in me is like six days a week. But, and you're right. Sometimes I work on Sunday, but only if I have to. And what's interesting is sometimes when my husband, if he has to travel for business, and he is gone over the weekend, on Sundays, I may work and not feel guilty. 'Cause if I end up having to work on a Sunday, I feel really bad, 'cause I'm like, I need to spend time with Jerry and the family and whatever else we're planning on doing, 'cause we need to make plans as well. And I'm one of those people that I'm so planned ahead in my planner or in my calendar, if I don't block off on my calendar up to a year ahead, I will be scheduled with something. So again, busy is good, but sometimes busy isn't good. And so was there a time that you realized "I don't have the proper balance right now" and you need to reevaluate, and what was it that happened and how did you readjust? Erikka: Oh yeah, this was probably about maybe -- even though we're still technically in the pandemic, but like midway, you know, when it was like, all right, we know that this is the way of life for now -- I had been just like throwing myself into so many workshops and a lot of 'em were LA based. So, you know, I'd be working all day, doing auditions, maybe cook dinner, and then, you know, in a workshop 'til one in the morning I was exhausted. I was drained. I was burnt out. I could tell, like I was less motivated to do auditions. You know, like I said, my boyfriend, my partner, he's just kind of like, you are doing too much you know? So other people kind of calling me out, and that's when I was just like, all right, you know, these workshops are great, I'm enjoying learning, but you know, maybe I don't have to take every single one I see. Maybe I can just do a couple a month, you know? And so that was kind of the turning point for me. And also I had developed to a point that I didn't need to keep doing them as much. I almost got like addicted to workshops at one point, 'cause I just loved learning and, and developing, but I'm like also from an ROI perspective, am I spending too much money now on workshops and training where I'm already at this point? So that was another turning point to be able to say, all right, I need to spend more time on working and making the money and maybe -- Anne: To reinvest. Erikka: -- go back some on the training. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anne: I think that's a good point to talk about that point where you are evaluating the numbers. And I think it's important that when we get to the point in our career, you need to evaluate your numbers. I know a lot of people don't look at the numbers sometimes, and they're just like doing jobs, spending money, buying microphones, upping their home studio, but yet they haven't really looked at their numbers. And I think it's important that you look at your numbers. Where is your outgoing expenses and what's incoming and where do you need to make adjustments? But I think having money to reinvest, I think you're probably at the point where you're being successful enough that you've forgotten to kind of figure out, oh, I need to pay the bills, or you've got that cushion, but you've also forgotten to look at your numbers to find out really what are you spending? And I think that's an important stop point in any career. You need to regularly evaluate the numbers, incoming and outgoing, so that you know when you can reinvest and when not to be. And in terms of like myself, I know myself, when I don't have the right balance -- and this is not balancing corporate career, but balancing my own career -- when I'm too busy, working too many hours, and I start to get like panicky, where I'm like, oh my God, I just don't have enough time to finish this and I've gotta finish this and I can't stop. And I will start to have like panic attacks. And that's when I know that the balance has got to come back because it's not healthy for me to be in that high. My blood pressure probably spikes. Erikka: Yeah. Your body will tell you, for sure. Anne: Yeah. And so do you have certain days that you set -- do you have time limits? Do you say I'm on the job from nine to five or I have an hour for lunch? I've got an hour to do auditions. How do you split your time? Erikka: Yeah, so I think it does vary for me from day to day because sometimes it might make sense for me to do a session at 12, when I know that I'm not gonna have any meetings. There might be days where I have no meetings. So it's kind of more like, you know, I have a project to work on on my own time, and it's not necessarily that I have to be right sitting in front of my computer for eight hours. And I might be able to have some sessions during that day, that do build in some breaks. Like I make sure that like, if I have, you know, meetings from one to four, and you know, sessions at some point, like I will set a boundary and be like, I'm not available at this time because I know I just need to breathe. I need to get outside, get some air, eat, you know. Anne: Yeah. I think mentally for me the performance, right? There's the business aspect, right, where I'm doing accounting, I'm sending emails, I'm responding to clients, and then there's in the booth. And I think so much of what's in the booth is mental. And that takes time. Like you forget to give yourself grace and time to prepare for that or build that into your calendar. That's where I find that I am lax sometimes, because I'll be so exhausted after I'm doing all the other stuff that I get in the booth here, and I'm like, oh God. Erikka: Now I have to act. Anne: And then what happens is I wanna get through the audition quick and I have to stop myself 'cause that does me no favors in my performance. How do you deal with that in the booth? How do you get back that peace? That, you know, restoration. Erikka: Yeah. Just kind of reset, yeah. Anne: How do you reset to have that balance? Erikka: For me, getting fresh air is a huge one. Like I've been either sitting in meetings, or I've been in the booth, or I've been sitting at my desk doing invoicing and all the admin stuff that comes along with our business as well, right? And like, I'll be like, all right, I need to get up. My butt hurts. I need to stand up. That tells me I've been in the chair too long. Anne: Yep. Erikka: And you know, these days I, I have to get up pretty frequently to go pee. So that helps, but I really do like try to get fresh air and that's a good reset because it literally getting the oxygen to my brain is like telling my brain, you're okay. And there's an abundance of air to breathe. And like that is something that I have learned. It tells your whole body, relaxes. One thing I did mention to one person at eVOcation is that I learned in therapy, particularly for people with anxiety or they get really high stress or high strung, if you kind of take a second to pause and do like a body scan and check, 9 times outta 10, if your stressed, your tongue is like resting or pushed up against the roof of your mouth. Anne: Oh really? Erikka: Yes. Anne: Ooh. I find it in my shoulders. Erikka: Absolutely. Your shoulders get tensed up, but it's like, if you check and it's like, your tongue is like just resting up there, and it's like, if you just relax it and like drop it down to the -- Anne: Oh my goodness. Erikka: -- bottom. Yeah. And -- Anne: To the bottom. Erikka: -- drop it to the bottom and just kind of scan -- Anne: My tongue is at the bottom. Erikka: -- your whole body, you can just feel everything just drop. And you're just like -- Anne: Oh, you're right. Erikka: -- huh. I was stressed out. Anne: Including my, including my posture though. But that's, that's good in way. Erikka: Yes. Anne: You know? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. So that's a great one to reset too. Anne: Wow. Erikka: Definitely the air does it for me. I wanna go back to real quick to something that you said about the money too and the reinvesting. I think that as someone who has both incomes where I have the corporate and the voiceover, so I'm not necessarily paying bills out of my voiceover income right now. That's what the corporate job is doing. So it's really easy to overspend in reinvesting Anne: Yes. Yes. Erikka: You know, because everything is, is somewhat extra, right? Like it could be paying off debt or whatever, but you still wanna watch and make sure that you're getting an ROI from where you're spending your money in your business. And you're not just spending because you have it. Anne: Right. Erikka: I got into that, and that's how I have like a million microphones and headphones and I started looking at my numbers, and I was just like, all right. If I wanna build this to a point where it is gonna be my source of income, I've got to start making strategic decisions about where I'm making expenditures, just like businesses do, setting budgets for different categories so I can watch my spending, just make sure that's aligning with what I'm bringing in. So I wanna bring that up. Anne: Mm. Yeah. It's easy for us to forget, to check those numbers. Even myself. This is what I do full time. I'm not even talking about balancing one career against another. I find myself that I'm not looking at the numbers enough, but what's really cool -- again, I say over and over and over again, the best investment I've ever made was my accountant. I have her on retainer. So she'll be doing monthly. She's the one that will alert me. "By the way you realize that you're spending so much per month on this subscription or your income that came in last month was little less than it was this time last year. So let's make some adjustments or whatnot," because she's also keeping track of my quarterly taxes that I have to pay. So that keeps me in check. So if you do not have somebody watching over you, looking at your numbers and you're doing it yourself, remind yourself at least once a month, if not more than that, in reality, if you're active doing this full-time, you should really be looking at your numbers once a week, if not every day, seeing what's going on, what's in and what's out, and just taking a brief look so that you're aware. Erikka: Yep. Yeah. Anne: I think that's important. Erikka: Yeah. I have a Google sheet, and I should be outsourcing to an accountant. I have somebody for taxes, but I'm just, I'll get there. It's taken me some time, but I'd have this Google sheet where I'm looking at my average income per job, also the median. So that way, if I get like a whopper, you know, when it's a five figure job, it's not throwing off my average. I can also see where I hit the median, 'cause that tells me when it's time to raise my session minimum. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: I'm looking at, like you said, year over year metrics. I'm looking at monthly, how much I brought in so that I can compare. I'm looking at quarterly averages of what I've brought in, and I have all that automated, the calculations are in the Google sheet. So I'm not having to calculate this every time. Every time I put in a booking, it's calculating that based on what's in the other sheet and, and showing me that number and I just look at 'em from time to time. Super helpful. Anne: So let's talk about mental balance and joy, right? So a lot of people that are in their corporate jobs want to escape. Is that how it is with you? Are you at that point in your job where you're like, I gotta get out? 'Cause I was at that point where like, I am so stressed out, I need a change. I was becoming stagnant myself in my corporate job. And that is the worst thing for me, just knowing my personality. It is the worst thing for me to remain stagnant and not grow. So I was like, I need a way out. I need to get out. And that escape was moving to California and then going into voiceover full-time. What about you? Where's your mental state there? Erikka: I think I'm okay right now, but I do think that, especially since I've got a whole new obligation coming along here, it's definitely on the long range plan to move out of corporate and to focus on -- I don't think I'll ever just do one thing, but kind of having voiceover and maybe something else that is my own personal endeavor. And I do think that you have to know what your plan is, like is this for short term or you're just trying to use this to build up some capital? Is it like a mid-range thing where you're building a career, and maybe you're gonna do voiceover after retirement or something like that? Or if you have a long range plan where you're like, I'm gonna have an exit strategy, I'm gonna build voiceover to a point where it can sustain my lifestyle and I'm comfortable, and then I can leave my job and that's more me. So I know like on the long range sort of roadmap, I will eventually probably leave corporate and just do voiceover because it's growing to the point where I'm gonna have to at some point. Anne: Right, right. Erikka: And knowing things like that, you have to prepare, right? You have to have balance in your approach. You have to start looking at -- Anne: You have to plan. Erikka: You have to plan. You reverse engineer how you're gonna get out. Don't just be like, I'm tired of my job. Bye, I'm gonna do voiceover, and wing it. You're gonna be miserable. And I don't wanna be a starving artist. Anne: Honestly I'm so glad that you said that because I have so many people that are like, yeah, I'm not happy at my job. I'm gonna get outta my job and just quit and do voiceover full time. And I'm always like, okay, whoa. First of all, you wanna make sure you've got a plan because it takes a while to get established in voiceover, unless you're a prodigy, and there's very few of those out there and it's with any good business that you are growing as an entrepreneur -- they used to say five years. I'm like, make it closer to 10 years, you know what I mean, that it's gonna take for you to really see a good ROI. And maybe like, this will be your way of life. You can support yourself. I'm not gonna say it takes 10 years for everybody. But I had a certain standard way of life that I like to live. You need to make a certain amount of money to do that. And so for me, that did not happen right away. It took me many years of growth. And thankfully I had a financial cushion, which was what I had put in place. And my husband also, who was working at a job. I was able to get healthcare benefits; so important healthcare, to have those benefits. And as a matter of fact, even now I'm always telling my husband, I don't care what you do. Just get me my health benefits. So I'll make money if you want, just get me health benefits, because that's a huge, huge part. Erikka: Yeah. I'm glad you said that, 'cause it's not just about the dollars that you're bringing in. Yes, absolutely. The benefits that you lose after you leave corporate, whether that's health, dental, maybe vision insurance. You know, right now I'm carrying debt for our family 'cause my partner's also freelance. Anne: Yep. Erikka: So if you know that that's not gonna be an option for you, either planning for that expense, or getting enough union work where you can qualify for the union health insurance. And that's kind of where I'm at. Looking at now that you're not gonna have a 401k, what are you gonna do for retirement? Anne: Right. Erikka: Are you gonna open, you know, SEPs? Are you gonna look at, you know, individual IRAs? So kind of having that for yourself, just looking at all of what you're gonna lose and coming up with a contingency plan for that, for when you're on your own or just being willing to do without it. You have to consider more than just the dollars, the taxes -- the fact that now the income that you're gonna have from voiceover is not only gonna support your business and you're paying your own taxes, but you're gonna have to reinvest in your business as well. So you have to make enough to cover all of that. Anne: And support the family. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Right? So whatever you have to do. And I remember those first years when I made that decision. Before I quit, and I say this all the time, I said to my husband, you're going to have to make one and a half times what you make now. See if you can get a transfer to California, but we're gonna have to make one and a half times, because I'm gonna quit my job, and I'm gonna go full time into voiceover. And you can't just can't depend on my salary after that happens. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: I had money put away in savings, but again, we're talking about a move across the country, that was expensive. Buying a new home, that was expensive. Even though we sold our home, we were buying a home that was brand new. So we did have to invest a little bit as well. And it just was something that we had to plan out. I said, make sure that you can guarantee this salary. And then, you know, it worked out and we moved. And then unfortunately my husband was laid off nine months after we got here. And then people said, when are you moving back? And I said, no, we're not moving back. So we made it work, but you still have to prepare for those unexpected things that happen. And so an exit strategy is important. Make sure that you have some money put aside that can support you in the event that you need to live off it for a year, I would say. That is so important and know that it's going to take time to build up your career in voiceover. I mean, at least give it five years. If you're at the point where you're working full time, and you're doing part-time voiceover, and you're making a considerable amount in voiceover doing that, first of all, congratulations because I know how difficult it was for me when I was working full-time, but I had to be on site, right, at my job, it was very difficult for me to make any money at voiceover 'cause I couldn't audition easily 'cause I was away from my studio. Now I think if you have the luxury of working from home, that's a whole lot easier. But still even if you can work from home, build in an evolution of here's transitioning from full-time to maybe consider your skillset and you can then be a part-time consultant in it while you're doing voiceover as well. And so therefore you are kind of compensating for the time it takes for you to build up the voiceover business while still utilizing your current skills in a consultant fashion, in a part-time fashion, that can supplement your living expenses and/or whatnot, your investment in your voiceover for the time being. I think that is something very important to put in place. And do not obviously, anybody listening to this podcast, do not think that voiceover is the easy job that you can just do from home. That just scares me when I do consults, and I hear people, they're like, well, I got laid off for my job and I wanna do voiceover. And that just scares me because that it's not that simple obviously. That transition takes time. There has to be an investment, and it amazes me again how many people don't have money to invest in voiceover to make it a sustainable career. Erikka: That's one thing too that I always kind of bring up, and it might be a little bit of an unpopular opinion, but I think that you should have a balanced approach when you're looking at exiting to not just have savings, but to also go ahead and build up a portfolio of credit that's available to you. Because this is a high investment industry, right? To be able to be in voiceover, you're constantly having to either spend money on equipment or you know, have subscriptions for connections or get training, you know, conferences, all these things, they do help you grow. So it's not like a one-time outlet. You do need to have some money for when technology fails and you have to replace it. It's easier for you to get approved for credit while you have that W2 income. So you don't have to use it. But kinda have the lines of credit available so that if the sky falls down, and you don't have enough savings to take you through that whole period, you have another fallback plan. It's like, you know, have your plan ABCD . Anne: That's a great idea. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: That's a great idea. And also I'd wanna mention on that line, consider if you're going to move low key into a new home. By the way, they don't look upon freelancers or people who are self employed very highly when you want to buy a new home for a mortgage loan. And I found that out very like firsthand when I moved here like two and a half years ago, and I've been established in the business. But I had to prove over and over and over again, here, I made this much this year, here are my bank records. Here, have it all. We can afford this. And it just was painful. It was painful. So if you need to make a move, make a move while you work at a job Erikka: The banks highly favor W2 work. Anne: They do, they do. Erikka: Yeah. So take advantage of that and then make your exit. Anne: Yeah. And then make your exit. That's actually a really good strategy plan. It's not that it can't be done because I did it. But you've got to basically hand over every piece of documentation that looks at your business and shows your income. And then you have to make sure that you can define where that income came from. You cannot just transfer $10,000 from PayPal into your bank account and say that it was for voiceover work. They're gonna wanna know really, where did that come from? And it's that type of a thing. Any large deposits into your bank account, you need to account for those. And if you say they're from your business, you gotta be ready to show the paperwork. That is just part of the reality. And especially now it's crazy out there in the housing market. It's expensive. So it's gonna make it that much harder even. Erikka: Cars too, like the other major purchase, you know, buying a car. And that's why, even if you do have W2 income now go ahead and get in the habit of keeping meticulous records, not just for taxes, but so that when you're in this situation, and maybe you're a year into your only freelance career, you've left your job and they want two years of history, you're gonna have to be able to show everything that happened over the past year and voice over plus that W2, which is gonna be easy. But get in the habit now, so that when those come up, you're able to really just show it and yeah, you want this fine? Yep. I can show you, no problem. 'Cause they wanna make sure it's not coming from illicit sources, right? Anne: Exactly. Exactly. Money laundering. That's it. I'm like, what look, what, where do they think it's coming from? Well, you could be laundering money. I'm like, oh, like that didn't even occur to me. Like, so I don't have a criminal mind there, but anyways, your last piece of advice for balancing everything so successfully the way that you do to the BOSSes out there; what would it be? Erikka: Oh man. I would just have to say, it's probably multi-pronged, but know your plan. Know what it is that you're trying to do with voiceover. If it's just something that you wanna do on the side, that is okay. But you need to know that and not kind of purport like you're trying to build something long term. Or if you are trying to build long term, start making long term plans. Start making steps to get your financial house in order, to prepare your family for this change. Don't want an emotional whim because you're tired of it. Grin and bear it, you know, just mm-hmm and know what you're doing and why you're doing it and who you're doing it for. And in the meantime, just set boundaries for yourself. Take care of yourself, know that you're not gonna be able to get into everything, but just know that you having both is also an asset. You're able to double dip for retirement, do a SEP and get your 401k. You're able to have another capital source to invest in your business. So just be patient with yourself. That was a lot of advice in one point. Anne: That was great though. It was sage, sage advice. Thank you so much, Erikka. You are an inspiration, for sure. Erikka: Thank you, Anne. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. All right. BOSSes. So as individuals, it can seem hard to make a big impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. And you can find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how you can make a difference. Also big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect like BOSSes, like Erikka and I, and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Erikka: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

You deserve to take up space & feel valued for the work you are doing. In this episode, Anne & Erikka discuss how saying no to jobs builds your career as much as saying yes! There is morality involved with lending your voice to a person or company. In making these difficult choices, it is essential to keep your brand & personal integrity aligned with the jobs you take. Bosses, have the confidence to say no, and if you need a little boost, your favorite hosts are here to help. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and our balance series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to start my day again with the lovely Erikka J. Hey Erikka. Erikka: Hey, Anne. Anne: How are you? Erikka: How are you? I'm pretty good. Anne: I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Erikka: Hangin' in there. Anne: It's been a crazy year or a couple of years. Hasn't it? Erikka: It has. Yeah, for sure. Anne: And I have to say that I got a job offer the other day to do something for a political candidate. And it made me think, because my thoughts about voicing things for, let's say, political and/or let's say anything else that maybe I may, may not believe in have changed and have evolved over my career here. And I thought it might be an interesting conversation to have with you. Maybe our moral compass, so to speak. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Balancing that and balancing your yeses maybe, you know what I mean? Like what you say yes to and your no, 'cause your nos can shape your career just as much as what you do decide to voice. Anne: Oh, right there. That's a golden nugget. We can go home now because that says it all. Honestly, I think sometimes no is even more powerful than a yes and can really help define in so many ways. Well, just a little more on that job that I was talking about, you know, it was for a political spot, and I literally went so far as to look up the candidate because it wasn't evident by the content right away what was happening there. I ultimately, I ultimately said no to it because it did not align with my beliefs and not just the copy, but because I said it was hard to tell with the copy because it was a candidate that wasn't as well known. And so I just said no, and I'm thinking about myself, maybe, I don't know, five years ago, or even later than that. I might have said, you know what? It's, it's a gig. It's a political gig. Let's do it. Let's get on board. What about you? I know you do a lot of political work, and it may not just be political work, but -- Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. I do a lot of political, and in the very beginning of my career, like literally, like I had been probably doing voiceover for like a month, and I did have a quasi-political sort of thing come to me. But now kind of looking back on it and it was weird because when I did it, I was like, well, you know, I'm just starting and oh my gosh, they booked me and they want me and I can do it, you know? And it's like, yeah, it's kind of borderline, but I'll just do it. And I've regretted it ever since. And it probably lived for like two weeks. It was something that was very short term, but it was supporting a candidate that I was not in support of somewhat. Like I said, a roundabout, like, I didn't say their, their name. But it was just that I learned that not all work is good work if it's going to misalign with your gut and how you feel and your own beliefs. And if from a more business standpoint, misalign with your brand. You don't want to jeopardize the trust that you've built with your clients that do align with your values and your brand. And then they're like, well, why is she voicing this? So I stopped doing that. Anne: Yeah. And I find that now, especially now, 'cause it's such a divisive climate these days politically that I think it's just shaping my business in a way that I didn't anticipate, number one. Not that I do a ton of political. I mean I do enough political to know now I'm absolutely like checking on the candidates, finding, going to their webpage and finding out if their beliefs align with mine, because I'm just not willing to have my voice recognized, and then another client, like you were mentioning, a longstanding client, maybe, I don't know, not align with that and then maybe have issues with me voicing for them in the future. But it's not even so much about that. It's become now about my performance too. I wanna make sure -- it's hard to create a believable performance when you don't align with the client that you are voicing for. And it doesn't have to be political. I think it could be anything. You know, now we've got, one of our next episodes probably gonna be all about AI, but with AI jobs, right? Are they gonna recognize my voice and then will there be, I don't know, judgment in one way or another, because that's also something that people have very strong feelings about. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, definitely not just political. Yeah. Just kind of, it definitely comes out in your performance. Like, yes, we can take on feelings and emotions and words that are not our own. I truly believe that when you're not enjoying the performance, when you really are not totally invested in it, it's gonna come through somehow, some way. And you know, the client may say there's something about it or it might just be a difficult session when they're really trying to pry it out of you. It's gonna come out in the wash and when it's not real. So yeah. I just prefer to say no. And I find that when I say no, the right things come along to replace it. So it's kind of having that, that kind of mindset, not having the scarcity mindset of, oh, I have to take the job 'cause it came. You know, having a more abundant mindset of I'll release this thing that isn't for me. So I can go to the right person and the right thing will come to me. So. Anne: Exactly. And you know, that applies in so many things if I can, the power of no. And especially when you're negotiating also, I think that, that makes a huge difference in terms of, I don't have to take this. If you have that thought process of, you know what, I don't have to take this job. And I have the confidence that if I say no to this job, that it will give me room for the next job to come along and fulfill my need for, I don't know, money to support my, whatever to support me in this career. So the power to say no is huge. And when you are negotiating that confidence that you have the power to say no, and that you are okay knowing that if you say no, everything's gonna be okay, and that something else will come along and fill its place. That is huge. And I think that a lot of people, when they first start out in the industry, it's a scary thing to negotiate a job. Because they're afraid that they're gonna lose the job if they quote too high. And so therefore they settle. I think you only have to have a few negative experiences when you settle, and then you get that client that doesn't align with what you want your business to be. And then they kind of nickel and dime you on every little thing that they want from you. And those are clients that when I get really, I only had a couple that really came back and nickel and dime me. And I was like, you know what? I did not quit my full-time cushy job to come to a job where I could be beat up by my client. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: This is why I got out of it. And so I wanna just tell any voice actor out there that is beginning, you do not need to suffer through a client that is abusing you, so to speak. Erikka: Oh my goodness. Anne: Right? Erikka: Yeah. Definitely talking about balancing yes and nos, that is such a great point on rates, because like you said, the ones that don't necessarily want to pay your price are the ones that are gonna have the most demands, want the most pickups or little changes or, well, could you, you know, say this one with a, like going up like they really like line reads you type things. And you know, things like that, but yeah. Not being afraid to fire clients. I think that that's so important. Anne: When they don't value you. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: It's all about the value. Right? You've gotta understand that what you do is of value. And we say this over and over and over again, but it's so interesting how it always comes back into play in these, the power of no, the moral, ethical compass that you have in working. It's not just, oh, do you take a political side? It's a moral compass when working with a client who may not treat you as if your services are valued. And that I think is huge. And like I said, I did not give up my cushy job you know, and thankfully I had a cushy job. I say thankfully and gratefully, but I did not give it up to go into business for myself to be handled by my clients in a way that is not aligning with what I want my business to be and someone that doesn't value me. And that is a huge, huge thing. And it's a huge thing when you talk about AI, right? And we think that the AI industry is out to get the voice talent and to take away their jobs and to devalue them. I personally, just through the VO BOSS podcast and all of my interviews, have been fighting to have AI companies value the artist and value the voice and value the asset of voice because they value other assets. Right? If you think about some of these big advertising companies, they value the product. Well, if the voice is representing the product, how can you not value that voice? How can you not treat that voice with the respect that you treat the product? Because it's a part of it. Erikka: Yeah. You're bringing a branding element that nobody else can bring. You have something, this voice, this tone, this way of delivery that they have chosen to represent their brand. That's the value and, and should be given the proper respect for that. And even to your prior point, I do still have my nice job But I think the thing is like, even at work, not to take it too far off topic, but just valuing yourself and whatever value you are bringing to the table in any business transaction, really in any transaction at all, any relationship. And if you command that respect for yourself and knowing that when you set those boundaries and say, you know, Nope, that's not for me or I'm not gonna allow you to treat me that way, you make space for the right things to come. So that comes with rates. That comes with the way clients treat you, that comes with the way your boss treat you. If you have a job and they're not treating you right, find something else. Anne: Absolutely. I love that you brought that up, especially in the corporate environment, because I know a lot of reason why people may be getting into the voiceover industry, right, is to escape the job where they don't feel valued. You know, I worked in the corporate world. Corporate is one of my specialty genres in coaching and in what I do in voiceover. And I always felt that corporate became the way that I was winning 'cause I would do corporate voiceover. And I thought, here's the way that I don't have to go in and be mistreated in a board meeting, right, by members of the company or, you know, not valued. Here, I can do the job, don't have to go to any meetings -- well, maybe a meeting with a person that's paying me, but basically I'm in, I'm out, and I got paid. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: And so therefore I win. I win at corporate. But I do happen to love corporate and I understand the corporate way. And in reality, as voice artists, we are hired pretty much by companies, whether they are companies that have a product or broadcasting companies, they're still companies. And again, you want to be valued by that company that you work for. And it's just something that resonates, whether you are in a company wanting to get out to form your own company, right, that you need to be valued. You need to be valued and you have the space to morally and ethically say no to create a good balance in your life for not just getting paid, what you're worth, but just having joy in what you're doing. Erikka: And you have to remember that like these businesses, they're not saying yes to every single partnership or every contract, and you as a voice talent -- I know that it's easy for creators and artists to kind of see us, ourselves as beneath or as you know, well, we're so grateful to get a job, but we are B to B businesses. So when we are working or deciding to choose to work with another company, that is a partnership. And you have to decide if that partnership is right for you, just like the big corporations do. You're no different. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's such a great point. Wow. So do you have any examples of jobs that you've said no to yourself? Erikka: Oh boy. I know. I do. Let's see. I've definitely said no for rates. And the couple times where I might have bent, I regretted it. Anne: Because then they would come back and want every little pickup. Erikka: Either they wanted more or it was just like, when I did it, it wasn't as fulfilling. And I was just kind of like dreading it. And then I send the invoice and I'm like, I can't believe I put myself through that for this. You know what I mean? So I kinda stopped bending. The times that I do kind of bend more on rates are like, if it's something I really wanna do. And I really believe in like PSAs or for non-profits and stuff like that. But yeah, I have, more times than I can count, you know, just said, hey, this is my rate. This is what it is. And if they say, you know, it's not gonna work for us. Great. Definitely say no a lot for usage, and that's something, you know, I'm open about the fact that I do participate on P2Ps. Just really Voice123 right now. But I'm very careful to make sure that anything that says in perpetuity, these contracts or these blatant boiler plate, things that they send out, I gotta make sure that I'm protected, that they're not gonna use it for broadcast use or try to use it in perpetuity without it being totally kind of safe from creating conflicts in the future. And I'll say no very quickly for those. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I wanna point out that a lot of times there's a panic, right, if I say, no, I won't get hired again. And I just wanna say like in life right, think about the products that you buy. You can choose to buy a product that's maybe cheaply made and that doesn't last as long, or it's not as good value, or you can buy the stuff that has served you well in the past, right? A trusted brand that lasts a long time or you can depend on it over and over again. And when it comes to that, you don't care what you pay for it for the most part. Right? And I think that even though we think voiceover might be going down the tubes because online casting came and, and now AI is coming and, and people think, well, it's just be devalued, and so what's gonna happen? Well, I think it it's human nature that there's always gonna be the division of, okay, so there's good value. Or maybe there's not so good value. And I don't think that's going to change whether pay to plays are in the picture or AI is in the picture, because people are always gonna want to buy the thing that gives them the best value. And that does not always equate to money. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: Right? Erikka: You'll always have buyers for the Dollar Store sort of, you know, genre. You'll always have buyers that are more in like the Target sort of realm and then you'll have your Neiman Marcus folks. Like it's always -- Anne: Right. Erikka: There are people that are, that are price driven and those that are quality driven, and there's just different types of buyers. And it's just which one do you align with. Anne: Right. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: And those buyers can change at any given moment. There may be times when I feel like I don't need top of the line, I don't know -- I always go to the girl thing -- I don't need top of the line lipstick now, but but I always need a good hairdresser. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like I wanna be that voice of our artist where people say, well, all right, I can forego maybe this part of the project, but I cannot live without Anne Ganguzza for my voice. Erikka: There you go. Anne: But that's what you wanna try to manifest for your business. Right? They say, Erikka J, man, she is like no other. She delivers. I love her voice. I can't live without her. And that's the type of client that you want. And there's a lot of clients out there, guys. I don't think we need to be worried that you're not gonna be able to get a client that will support that value and support your business. And I think you just have to believe, and I know a lot of times it takes -- it took me years to kind of get that belief and that confidence. And it's funny because it's still evolving, and I've been in this for over 15 years now. Erikka: Yeah. It's like a muscle. You have to keep stretching it. Yeah. Anne: It is like a muscle. It keeps growing, and you just like every day you realize, wow, you know what? I'm gonna be okay. People are going to want to hire me, right, because I deliver value. And then even if there are other things like pay-to-plays have become, it's tough. It's a lot of competition. Well, maybe that's something that you evolve out of and you do something different. And again, you always have to have that balance of this is aligning with my business, morally, ethically. And what's my other word? Does it bring me joy? Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Right? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: There is that balance that makes my business go around kind of thing. And makes me happy that I do what I do. And when it no longer makes me happy or no longer fulfills my quota of, I need to support myself, right? Well then maybe I evolve into something else and what's given me the strength to be okay with that is the fact that I have built my business up. And that I have succeeded. I always say this. If the voiceover industry were to fall out, I'd be okay. Because I have learned how to operate a business myself, and I know that I can evolve, and I will evolve because I've proven it to myself before. And I know that you BOSSes out there can do the same. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: I'm not anybody special. I think there's something to be said for longevity and in following your moral compass. Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Right? And having that balance. Erikka: Yeah. And I think part of balancing those yeses and nos, we talked about the moral compass. We talked about financially making sure the rates are right, the usage, making sure it brings you joy. I think another part of that is do you have the time? Because you don't wanna jeopardize your relationship with a client by you keep saying yes, yes, yes, yes. And you start falling behind on deadlines or you're not delivering the quality that sets up to par because the hours in the day are finite. Right? Your energy is, is finite per day. So sometimes you might have to say no, simply because you don't have the bandwidth, and you have to be okay with that because it'll be worse for you to deliver a subpar product. Anne: Right. Right. Erikka: Because you didn't have the bandwidth to really do it. Yeah. Anne: And I think it works. I mean, if you want it to, I think it can work in your favor and especially, Erikka, for you, I think because you are juggling a full-time job, a voiceover career, I mean family, everything. And so the fact that you don't have the time makes it like a little easier to say no. And a lot of times when you say no, that makes people want you more. Erikka: Yes, I totally agree. Anne: Just sayin'. And that makes people value you more. And that actually can turn out to be a wonderful thing for your business. Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Right? Erikka: Yeah. Or like, for me, like I say no to longer form projects, because I know it's gonna be harder for me to fit that in. So it makes room for me to get more of the short term stuff. And like you said, it does kind of be like, oh, well you didn't have time for this, but I'd love you to do this. You know, like, could you do this one? Anne: Or even, I dunno, has it ever turned around, whether you've said, no, I, I don't have time for it. And they offer you more money? Erikka: They offer me more money or they offer me more time. They're like, well, if we wait until next week, could you do it? And I'd be like, well, yeah, actually I could Anne: Yeah, so in a sense, absolutely. I mean, it just works out, and I'm always saying being busy is a good thing as long as you're balanced and you're not going crazy. And like your health is at stake or something like that. But the being busy is good because then it's a great time, I always say, when you're that busy to raise your rates and see what happens and it's scary as hell, but when you raise your rates, and then you say, let me just see what happens, and people just, they take it. And you're like, damn. And it's so funny because to us, it's like this big, like, oh my God, I'm gonna raise my rates. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: And then the next thing you know, somebody's buying it and you're like, oh, well that was simple. Why didn't I do that before? Erikka: I am so glad you said that, Anne, because again, the laws of business, which we have to remember as BOSSes, that we are not just talking into a microphone, we're not just artists. We are entrepreneurs. We are businesses. What businesses do, the law of supply and demand. If the demand goes up, guess what, the price has to go up, because there's not as much supply to fulfill that. So yeah. Anne: That's right. It's a really wonderful thing. And I think there's too many people that let it get to them before they realize that, wow, this is how I can raise my -- this is how I can actually survive because there's not too many people that are just doing this as a hobby. I mean a lot of people, oh yeah. It's kind of fun. I'm dabbling in it. But in reality, the ones of us who are concerned about how do I market, how do I get the jobs? We want this to be a living. We wanna be able to do this and be successful at it so that we can support our families or whatever it is that we wanna do with that. And I think when it gets to that point, you've gotta figure out how you're gonna make that business work for you. And there are some scary, scary challenges. I'm -- like I say this all the time, you have to be scared of something every day, honestly. And I think that really is good for you to be a little bit scared. And I'm still scared when I raise my rates, and then I'm still like, oh, damn, that was easy. Somebody picked up on that. Erikka: Right. Right. Anne: It's like -- now I think you just have to be careful that you're within a market. Erikka: For sure. Anne: You don't wanna price yourself out of the market. And that is something that you have to, you know, understand. And I think that's something that, again, there's a balance of worth plus the market, because you can be a little more expensive than what typically is on the market. And that's where I kind of like to -- I don't wanna say I'm expensive, but I like to say they are my values. This is my price because I honestly, I don't have time to not have it be my price. Erikka: Amen. Yes, yes. And deliver the goods to match that price. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: You know, so that they are happy to pay that. Anne: Well, exactly. Happy and glad to pay it over and over and over again. And I don't feel guilty. Erikka: Yep. Anne: Right? I don't ever feel guilty. Erikka: Yep. Anne: Right? I don't know. Have you ever felt guilty when charging a client? Erikka: I, I might feel guilty when I first say it, but then like at the end of the job, I'm like, yeah, well that was worth that , you know, and they're happy. Anne: Yeah, if you work hard. Erikka: They didn't have to come back, you know, like they got what they needed quickly and yeah. Anne: Well, you know, that's so interesting that you say that too. I was on a live directed session the other day, and it boggles my mind, right, because I said, oh, do you wanna, you know, gimme some direction or you want me to just read it? And then you can gimme some comments later. They're like, yeah, let's do that. I delivered the read, and they're like, wow. That was perfect. And it's funny because that was quick. They're like, okay, no, that was perfect. We don't need anything else. Bam. I did it. They were like, wow, that's perfect. That was perfect. And they were so shocked and surprised and happy. And I was like, gosh, I wonder who they've been working with? Erikka: Really. Anne: Because for me it was just like, okay, let me just do this. And I was confident. I think confidence has -- we should have an entire episode on confidence. Erikka: Oh gosh, we should. Anne: You know, just because I was confident, there was no reason for me to be not confident. I do get nervous before a live session, but I'm confident in my abilities and to be able to deliver that, but they were so surprised and I was like, well, I'm so happy that I could deliver. And guess what? They hired me again. And so it just became like, it was quick, but it was worth it for them because it was quick. And I delivered what they needed quickly. Erikka: They're trading their money for you to make them spend less time. So the better that you can efficiently deliver with the read and what they're looking for, so that they're not spending hours directing you on a session, they're gonna appreciate that. And they're gonna happily pay you 'cause they can get more money. They, they don't have a lot of time. And yeah, I love what you said about, you know, it kind of just being ready, because if you get into that session and you're nervous -- I get nervous before live sessions still too. Anne: Yeah. I do. Erikka: One thing to kind help with that is I'm not afraid to like ask questions, especially if I have a client that maybe hasn't hired a lot of voice talent, so that I get clarity on the direction that they wanna go. You know, I'll do that at the top of the session. So then I'm more secure and more confident in what I'm delivering because it's not the guessing game and feeling it out in those first 15, 20 minutes. Right? And now I've just saved them 20 minutes because I took five minutes to ask questions, delivered the read in two, three takes -- Anne: Exactly. Erikka: -- we're done. Anne: Yeah. That's it, that's it, it's really delivering what they want. And that's the thing. 'Cause maybe, you know, you're confident in your performance, but you're not necessarily confident that you're gonna deliver what they want in their ears. So asking questions I think is, is super important. So guys, balance, I think balance in moral ethics, your value. I think that it is so important for a happy, successful career in voiceover. And I think that compromising -- look, I think anybody that gets into this industry, I think if they're coming out of the corporate world, which I have a lot of people, you know, trying to come out of the corporate world to do it full time, and I'm always like, well wait, just a moment before you do that. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: Right? And I think that, that is also another worthy topic for the podcast is, you know, your full-time job plus voiceover, how do you make it work? Which -- Erikka: And balance, and a balanced approach to the exit strategy. Anne: Yep, exactly. Yeah, exactly. But I think morally, ethically and worth-wise, you have to have a great balance and a great sense of who you are and your worth and to make things successful. And I believe in all of you, BOSSes out there, that it can be done. I mean, if I could do it, like like I've learned a lot over my 15 years, and, and that is a big part of what I've learned and a big part of what helped me become successful. And Erikka, I'm sure you see that every day. Erikka: Every day, balancing the yeses and the nos, balancing what I'm gonna do and not do. And yeah, for sure, eevery day. Anne: All right. Well, BOSSes, I'd like to give a big thank you to our sponsor 100voiceswhocare.org. This is your chance to make a difference using your voice and give back to the communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. And also our sponsor ipDTL. We love ipDTL. It helps me to connect with BOSSes like Erikka here and all of you out there. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing wake and we will see you next week. Erikka: Bye! Anne: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

We all get a lot of spam messages, but how many of us are sending cold emails that could be perceived as spam? This week, Anne & Erikka are here to help you clean the spam from your inbox. Using discernment is key, but checking for legitimate business websites, email domains, and avoiding sketchy links is a great start. As for sending spam, any #VOBOSS knows that their website, email signature, and patiently awaiting a response will help, but keep listening for the whole conversation! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to bring back my very special favorite co-host Erikka J. Woohoo! Erikka: I'm sure you say that to all the co-hosts, Anne. Anne: Hey. Hey. Erikka: Well, we are matching today with our headphones though. Anne: So, oh my gosh. That's pretty awesome. Erikka: Yes. Yeah. Anne: Wow. Wow. We're doing a little experiment, BOSSes, that not only are we recording audio, but we are recording video this week, and that was quite an event because I had to put some lipstick on. Erikka: Just gloss for me was the best I could do. Anne: And try to look good for the camera, but you know, we'll give it a shot. So Erikka, it's been a crazy week. It's been, goodness, what's been going on with you? Erikka: Man. Yesterday. Actually I posted that I got this really crazy spam email and um... Anne: Uh-oh. Erikka: Well, well, okay. I'll take it back even further. It went -- on a good note -- Anne: Crazy spam. Erikka: Oh goodness. All spam is crazy, right? But this one was, was probably the worst I've gotten. I had just gotten featured in this magazine called Voyage ATL and posted the article. Anne: Oh yes. Erikka: It's like really cool. And with that comes SEO juice, and there's good juice and bad juice. And it looks like this juice kind of fed some bad. I got a form submission actually from my, my site, which is based on Squarespace. And so I'm saying, okay, when, if somebody's wanna hire me, I click it. And it says it's from the Spit in Her Butt Show. Anne: oh my gosh. The Spit in Your Butt. All right. Erikka: Her. So particularly women. Anne: Oh, Spit in Her Butt. Oh! Erikka: The Spit in Her Butt Show. And they said that they found me on Voyage. Like they actually told me that that was how they found me. Anne: Wow. Erikka: And I was like, oh, ok. Anne: So that was not a job proposal. Erikka: I don't know, but I, I would decline whatever it is. Anne: Yeah, I think I'd decline. Erikka: And then they left a link, and it was like -- Anne: Oh my. Erikka: -- it's a valid show though. That's what's nuts. I didn't click the link because you know. Anne: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That looks suspicious. Erikka: But Googled a little and apparently this guy does and I was like, ew, you know, but spam. Yeah. Anne: Spam is, spam is ugh. Spam is annoying. That is for sure. And I think, you know what? That kind of is a great segue into what I think would be a great topic to talk about. 'Cause I get questions all the time about emails and email marketing. So we should talk about email marketing today. And spam is a concern. I think, let me just open up by saying there's a lot of people which will go and kind of mine the internet for production companies and email addresses to where maybe they should send their demos to and try to get on their rosters. And while that's absolutely a method to do that, the risk that you take with that is that you are probably going to be cold emailing someone. And I think that there's some considerations that you need to think about before you do that. Spam is most certainly one of them, and spam is in the broadest sense is receiving an email that you did not give permission or request. And so as business owners and trying to sell a service, we have to be very careful when we email people that we have their permission. I mean, that is the ultimate way that you need to be doing your marketing is to having permission to send to these people. But what do you do when you don't know these people? Right? Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Anne: How do you make an introduction? How do you do it without being considered spam? Because I know when I get spam, as you just mentioned, like the last thing I wanna do is contact these people ever again. 'Cause I'm annoyed, number one, how did you get my email address? How did you find me? At least the person told you how found you. Erikka: True. True. Anne: But a lot of times, yeah, a lot of times I'll just get an email in my inbox and it'll be like, hey, I can help your SEO or I can do your website or whatever that might be. And the interesting thing is that they never seem to be from a valid company. It's just like kind of an indescript email address and no signature file. And I don't know, what are some things that you look out for when you're getting emails to see if they're spam or not? Erikka: Oh man. It's the common stuff. Anne: Warning signs. Erikka: Yeah. The misspellings. Honestly, sometimes the all caps. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: Because humans just don't really write that way. Particularly like if it's coming to me in another language that I only speak English, I only have English everywhere on any presence on the web, maybe a little Spanish every once in a while, but yeah, nothing -- Anne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Erikka: Yeah, definitely stuff like that. I don't know. Just the context. I'll I'll look at it. I definitely don't click any links, but I'll read it. But yeah, the misspellings and all that kind of stuff, usually it's in the text, you can tell. Anne: I think for me, the first thing I see is, is there a signature file, and is it coming from a proper domain? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: Right? Erikka: There you go. Anne: If it comes from like a Yahoo address or a, even a Gmail address these days, and I know there have been talks with people about, well, it's okay to just have a Gmail address for your business. And I'm like, I, I kind of have a disagreement with that because I feel like if you want to exude professionalism that at least have a domain name that is your business. And that domain name can be your name. But I feel like if it comes from Gmail, you didn't take the time to like really set up your business in a professional way. That's me. But I've had so many people say otherwise that, oh no, it's perfectly fine now to get an email address from Gmail or Yahoo. But if you're gonna do that, and then have a signature file that links back to a webpage maybe of yours, of your own domain. Right? I still feel like, again, if you wanna be, show professionalism, you should have a domain name. AnneGanguzza.com. That's me. Erikka J, right? Or even Anne Ganguzza Voice or whatever that is, it goes back to a domain that hosts a website that tells people about you. Erikka: Yeah. You've gotta establish that trust. Right? And I mean, it's so inexpensive. Like I said, I personally use Google domains. It's $12 a year, a dollar a month. I mean, why wouldn't you, you know, just to have that domain? And then setting up an email, I think it's like an additional six or something. Yeah. The Gmail or the Yahoo is definitely one. Another one to look for, particularly with spam is that they'll try to use like a known brand name, but it'll have like an extra dot or something in there. And you have to watch that 'cause you might see like Bank of America, but it's got like Bank of - America. And like that's not Bank of America, like watch that type of spam too. Anne: Right? Erikka: Yeah. Get your own domain name. It's, it's so easy. Anne: Yeah. And I think that will really do a lot. It'll do wonders for having people respond to that email, which is what we want. We don't want people to take a look at our email and get angry at us and then say, oh my gosh, I'm so annoyed that they just emailed me that and trying to sell me something that I don't ever wanna contact them again. Because that's what I do silently. I'll be like, oh I'm so. And if, especially if they send it more than once, right? If it comes like a day or two or again and again, and I can tell in Gmail 'cause it threads. Erikka: Yep. Anne: And I'll be like, all right, that's it. That's like the fifth time you sent me email and I, then I might write back. But as a business, if we're sending out emails to people who have not given us permission and guys, I say it over and over again, when you are mining the internet or you are finding production houses, and you are sending emails to the contact there, they have not typically said it's okay to send them emails. So you have to be very, very careful about what you say in that email that you're not gonna get them upset or annoyed that you are just reaching out to contact them because 200 other voice talent have found their name as well. And all they do is field off these, "hey, I'm a voice talent. Here's my demo." So I think it's important. Erikka: Yeah. The trick that I hate that people will do, and I see this probably more with like spam, legit, spam and bots. But like they try the re and the subject line to make it look like they were replying when you know, you never sent anything to them. It's like, stop trying to trick me. I know I didn't email you . Anne: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's interesting. What made me think you were talking about using a known brand or trying to kind of spin off of a brand -- I actually got like an invoice in PayPal, which was an invoice that I certainly did not -- I didn't buy anything from this person, but it came so legit with the PayPal logo 'cause it came through PayPal, but it was spam coming through PayPal in the form of an invoice where once they had the invoice, if you open the invoice, right, then they had links to probably, I don't even know 'cause I didn't click them. So people try anything to to, to contact or maybe it was phishing. Whatever it is, I think that again, as voice talent, we have to be very, very careful. There are laws. There's the Spam Can Act of 2013. There is the GDPR. There is the California Privacy Act. There are so many laws and, and regulations set in place that theoretically, if you do not put your address on the bottom of your email, and you do not offer an unsubscribe, that is considered spam. So even if you're sending an individual email out through Gmail, if it's unsolicited, if you don't have your address or a way to unsubscribe, that is considered spam and somebody could potentially legally take that up with you. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Things to watch out for. Anne: So, then what do we do? Right? What do we do? How do we market with email? That's the question of the day. VO BOSS has a direct marketing program. And the one thing that makes it different is that we have a list, but it was not a list that was something that we mined off of the internet. This is a list that was purchased. And with lists that you purchase, of course you have to be careful with that too, because you don't know how many times that list has been sold. Let's say, oh, it's a list of e-learning companies. And we sold it to 2000 voice talent already. And so you don't wanna have a list that you don't know how many times it's been used. You don't know how old it is. We don't know if there's current addresses on it. The list that I have purchased is a large list that has been in business for many, many years. They continually update addresses, and it's 90,000 plus creatives and companies that have in-house media production divisions, copywriters, creative directors, owners of companies. So this list that we have purchased, they have agreed to allow VO BOSS to market to them. And that is, I think, the number one advantage, if you want to do a direct marketing this way. You can also buy a list that has permissions built into it. This list costs a few thousand dollars, but it's one of the reasons why I started the VO BOSS blast because I was like, wow, I'm gonna buy this list. It's pretty expensive. So I can offer, uh, this 90,000 people, I can offer marketing to this list, and it's already what I call vetted. It's a vetted list. And so these people are okay with anybody from VO BOSS, sending them a marketing email. So essentially the product basically gives you a VO BOSS address. So Erikka, you would be like ErikkaJ@VOBOSS.com. So therefore it gets sent out to these companies who have already given permission. They're already expecting to hear from us, but the reply to is set to your individual email business address. So therefore when somebody wants to hire you or ask you for an audition, they basically will just reply or send an email to you. And it also has links in the email that go to your website, that go to your demos. We usually feature a project or something new that you've done. And that's essentially the concept around a direct marketing method that uses a list where people have already given permission. And that's like half the battle. Really. Erikka: Yeah. For sure. And I mean, if you're not gonna spend, you know, the thousands of dollars, obviously there's the grassroots, the organic route, right, is where you are talking to people or you have it on your website where they can actually subscribe. So they're making the choice to subscribe to your list and giving permission that way. And if you have those sort of tools built in, they obviously would have an unsubscribe option. So yeah, permission is, is the key for sure. Anne: I'm so glad that you brought that up 'cause people will say, how do I get permission? And that is, I think one of the leading ways to get permission is to have one of those pop-up windows. I have 'em on every one of my websites. And any platform has a way to do that. If you have a WordPress website, there are plugins. I used to use the plugin called Bloom. And that was the one that allowed a popup to appear once somebody was on your website and says, "hey, subscribe to my email list to get special offers or whatnot. If you wanna keep up with what's going on, sign up here." And I wanna say that that is a very valid way to get a permission based list of people that you can market to. And it's very valid. I mean, I've been doing it for years on all of my domains, on Anne Ganguzza, on VO Peeps, on VO BOSS. So anytime you see that pop-up and you say, yeah, let me sign up and keep up with what's happening with your business, that person has given you permission to email them. Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. Anne: And so there are ways to create your list. It takes a long time, I'm gonna say because not everybody that comes to your website's gonna really wanna keep up with you. I mean, a lot of us have email. I have, we've discussed my email before. Erikka: Yeah. You beat me, but mine's pretty bad too. Anne: Uh, yeah. I got a lot of unread messages and a lot of, yeah, I get a lot of email, so. But it's one of the ways, interestingly enough, Erikka people may laugh at how much email I get. But a lot of the ways that I learned how to market through email was by signing up for companies' lists. Erikka: Yes. Copy. Steal like an artist. Anne: Exactly. It's like my secret weapon. People are like, well, how'd you get so good at marketing? Oh my gosh, I sign up for company email lists. And then I, I observe and I say, okay, what kind of information are they sending out? Not only do I observe how to market myself, but I observe how I might be able to help that company 'cause I can see how they're marketing to their clients. And therefore it's like a double cool thing because, number one, I'm learning how to market, number two, I'm learning about this company and what their needs are. So then how can I serve those needs? So I can just bring it back to them and just say, hey, I really love what you're doing with this product, blah blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever it might be. Just wanted to reach out and say, hey. And even if you don't even say like I do voiceovers, it could just be like, hey, I signed up your mailing list. I love your product. I think it's super interesting. Just wanted to say thanks for the inspiration. And boom, you're done. Don't even mention that you're a voice artist, but in your signature file, guess what? Erikka: There you go, there you go. Anne: You're a voice artist. So you start to develop that relationship first. Erikka, like how do you find new leads and contacts? Erikka: You know, I am not one to do much of the email or direct marketing. It's just, this is not my jam at least not at the moment. It's sort of on my long range roadmap to probably outsource that moreso, the lead generation part. But I will say that when I was moreso doing music and I'm probably gonna date myself here, but I was using MailChimp So they still run, but I did it the grassroots way. So it was like people that I knew were already engaged with my brand, people that I knew were already buying from me, I started with that. And then I would just say, "hey, you know, I've got this thing, I have this newsletter that I'm starting. Do you wanna stay up to date?" And most of them said, yeah, sure. And then I just had them click, and it automated, and I built this database of about 500 people. So when I had a new release or I had a new piece of merch coming out, you know, I sent the one, and it went out to everybody, so I kind of did that. But yeah, as far as lead generation, now I'm more so -- I like the passive stuff. So I love the SEO. I use P-to-P's. I have my agents and my managers, but I really, really kind of leverage the SEO so that I have more walking into my website passively because I don't really love to email market. I do have a couple where it's like brands that I'm super engaged with. Just like you said, I'm like, I love this product. I love what you guys are doing. If I can ever help in any way, please let me know, and I just send it, and I have all my information in my signature. So I'm not really selling. It's just there for them. If they wanna see it. Anne: Well, exactly. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Exactly. You're expressing an interest in them, and you're not trying to take anything back. Erikka: Yep. Yep. Anne: You're not trying to push yourself on them. And I think that that's really wonderful, and I do believe that email marketing, it is just one way. Obviously we always wanna know how to get work. And we have a whole episode that we did on SEO, which I love because that is also one of my favorite methods of getting work is just having people find me and then listening to the demos. And if they're strategic, target marketed demos, which is what I'm all about, they listen to it, they love what they hear. They then contact you and say, "hey, how much would it cost to do this?" So I love that. But I also think a combination of that along with your talent agents, along with maybe pay to plays, along with direct marketing through a list, can really provide you with the opportunities to really get out there and get work so that you can make it a successful endeavor, this career, as voiceover, because that's gotta be the number one question, right? How do I get work? How do I get work? And how do I email mark? it's something that people are, they're kind of terrified if they've never done it before. And the first thing you have to be aware of is when you go and mine the internet for those addresses is that you've gotta be careful of talking to people when they haven't given you permission. It's also like when somebody calls you up, how many -- like I actually have a phone at my home that is not my cell phone. And we get spam calls every single day. And so you don't wanna be like that. when you're sending out email, but if you can send out email marketing, the cool thing is, is to send it out to people who've already given you their permission to do that. And the other cool thing is if you do hire or outsource, let's say, do a BOSS Blast, what happens is we kind of represent you without being an agent. So we're like on behalf of VO BOSS, check out millennial voiceover talent, or check out Erikka J. She's got the smooth promo sounds of whatever it is that you, whatever genre that you want to talk about in your promo or in your email marketing, we can focus on that. And it's on behalf of another brand that is trusted, that has already been given permission. And so that's even cooler because it's not like I, I, I, I, I, here's what I've done. It's about VO BOSS presenting you as the talent that is established, that is credible. And that's the other thing too, is that VO BOSS doesn't do this marketing for everybody. I mean, we vet the people that we market for. And we have to make sure that you have a well-established brand, that you've got good demos that we can market and things that we can do. Because if I get labeled as a spammer, VO BOSS gets labeled as a spammer, guess what? My entire BOSS Blast business is out of business. So I have to be hyper aware of what's being sent out and coming back and make sure that it's not going to be considered spam. So you better believe that we've got many eyes looking at that email going out, making sure that it's good and that it's not spam. I'm gonna say, think about your own email and the emails that you get on a day to day basis. What do you consider spam? And then think about how you are marketing email wise to people. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what it's all about, talking about our balance theme is having a balanced approach to lead generation, whether that's P2Ps, agents, managers, email marketing, social media marketing, because that works too, using hashtags, or like you said, not, I, I, I; you know, talking about a recent job that you did, how you were happy to help this brand or this company, or promote this new product. All those sorts of things help you with lead generations. So having a balanced approach to that is super important. Anne: Yeah. Wow. Erikka: Wow. Yeah. Anne: Good discussion. Erikka: One more thing about email marketing I kind of wanted to touch on real quick. We, we kind of started to was the signature. I think it's important that you make sure that you have a good signature. You know, there are tons of tools out there for you to go build it. It doesn't necessarily have to be super fancy, but if you can get it branded, that's great. And there are tools that can help you do that, but you know, make it easy for them to find you and to find your work, to know what you do. If you choose to put a picture, but at minimum, at least like your website and some way to contact you maybe outside of that email. But yeah, I think that's important because if you are sending an email to market, that might be your only shot to make an impression. Anne: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And actually I think that, remember, it was the first thing that I look at when somebody sends me an email, do they have a signature file? Is it coming from a valid domain, a valid company? Does it look legit? And so I think your signature is super important. And by the way, I use Wise Signature. I think I spend $39 a year. And it allows you to put all sorts of really cool, like your social media icons, you can put links to your demos, and it makes it look really nice too. I love a nice, a nice signature. Erikka: Yeah. I've used them. I use Signature IO, same type deal where I can put graphics and colors and all that stuff so that it's branded. So yeah, like you said, it does establish trust, but I kind of wanted to touch on like the aesthetics of it alone, just being eye-catching and being like, oh, makes me wanna go click and look at it. Anne: Absolutely, absolutely, great suggestion. All right. Well, hey, I know we can talk about email all day long but I think this was a great start. I'd like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, 100 Voices Who Care. You guys can have an opportunity to have your voice make a difference. You can find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. And of course, to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. Thanks so much for joining us this week, and we'll see you next week. Erikka: Bye! Anne: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Patrick answers questions about tattoos, using alcohol to cope with depression, and why Muslims believe in Mary and Jesus when Jews don't Andrew – Should Christians impose their morality on non-religious? Bethany - What do you think about the idea of separation of church and state? Rocio - What is the Catholic teaching on getting a tattoo? Dennis - Was the question of personhood brought up in the overturning of Roe v Wade? Gloria - My sister, Maria, called earlier. Is the mass on TV valid even though it is a rebroadcast? Janice - How could God send an evil spirit to Saul? Paul - Who told the disciples that Jesus died on the Cross? Elias - Why do Muslims believe in Mary and Jesus, but Jews don't? Juliana - My sister is using alcohol to cope with her husband's death. How do I protect her daughter, my God Daughter, when her mom is drinking? Anne - You said the public schools teach students to hate this country. I am a teacher and I disagree with you.

What do Google, P2Ps, and Instagram all have in common? They are search engines! This week, Anne & Erikka talk tech. More specifically, SEO and how you can use keywords to improve your searchability & business. Our websites and online profiles are our digital storefronts. The words we put on them are the secret to getting found by clients, so specificity and consistency are essential. Listen up Bosses, we've got tips & tricks just for you! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am here back with special guest co-host Erikka J. Hey Erikka. Erikka: Hey Anne, how are you today? Anne: I'm doing good. What's going on with you? Erikka: Oh, nothing, man. Just happy to be back and happy to have -- actually, I just had a job that walked in on my website, and I was so excited because I love getting those. Anne: Ah, oh my God. I love that. You said that because walking in on your website, that's the best kind of job to get because you don't have to do all the work of auditioning. They've already come to your website. They've heard your demos. And they've liked what they've heard, and then they contact you and say how much? Erikka: Yeah. They just walk in and wanna hand you money for you doing the talking. So I love that. Anne: I love that. That is such an efficient way to work. Not that -- look, I'm not gonna blast anybody who auditions. I mean, I audition. I audition for my agents every day and thankfully I'm busy because I do a lot of things in my business that I don't really have a ton of time to audition outside of, for my agents. And so when it comes in on my website or however they find me online, I absolutely love the inquiry because they don't necessarily need an audition. They're just saying here's my job. How much will it cost? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, talking about balance, yeah sure, we do auditions every day. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: And that's a great way to land work. And a lot of the work that we get from our agents where we have to audition are those big, you know, really great jobs, but having a balanced approach to your business and having a diverse set of leads that come in, having that walk-in money where you don't really have to do that audition work. And it's just like, hey, we want you to do this job. We saw your website and love your work. And when can we schedule a session and how much? Like, that's great. It's a good balance. Anne: Love it, love it. And so I think so important to talk about is SEO, because that plays a large part in how people find you online, a large part in how people find me and my website, and then pretty much say, hey, I like your voice. How much will it cost? So let's talk a little bit about SEO, search engine optimization. I know a lot of people like get discombobulated when we start talking about technological things like that and SEO. And disclaimer here, I am not an SEO expert, but I have definitely employed certain things on my website that have allowed me to be found easier. And it has really contributed greatly to those people that walk in and ask for work from me, which I think is amazing. Erikka, what about your experiences? Erikka: Absolutely. I mean, if you think about it, when it gets a little intimidating, you just think about SEO, as Anne said, stands for search engine optimization. What is Google? A search engine. What are all these social media sites essentially? A search engine. Even the P2Ps, a search engine, they're looking for things. So all you're doing is optimizing your website so that you are found more easily on that search engine when they're searching for things that are relevant to your website. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Or your online presence. I know. I -- Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. Anne: -- I bring it back to the website because I think the website is the core of who our businesses are. And the core website will allow anyone to come find me, listen to my demos and then pay me money. So it's like a full cycle. That's my online storefront. And so let's talk about how we can optimize our online presence for good SEO, Erikka. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: What's the first thing? Erikka: I think for me, I saw the jump when I went into -- 'cause currently my site is based on SquareSpace. I'm in the process of moving over to WordPress. But there is, if you dig into those sites, there are sections that are specifically for SEO. And if you go in there and you start putting in, I use keywords that I know when someone who is looking for me or my type of sound or what I bring to the table as a voice talent, I'm putting those keywords in my SEO box so that when they're searching for Black female voice talent, or authoritative, or sounds like Viola Davis or whatever, I'm coming up in those options. So I think that's number one is making sure that you have the right copy on your website and the right terms that are specifically driving SEO on your website listed there. Anne: Let's talk a little bit more about keywords because I think keywords are what, you know, people are like, well, what keywords should I use? And I think keywords are very specific to everybody, every person. And I think everybody wants to be found for the keyword voiceover. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: You know? Erikka: Everybody, Anne: Everybody. And here's the deal. The sites that have a lot of people that have voiceover in their profile, that word, are going to be the ones that get found first because there's many occurrences. So keywords are, basically in Google, if you rank highly for a particular keyword, you will show up on the first page, which is desirable to show up on the first page. 'Cause many people, when they search myself included, I don't always go to the second or third pages. However, I will say, Erikka, I don't know if you've noticed recently, there's been an awful lot of ads on the first page of Google lately. Erikka: There have. Anne: A lot. Erikka: Definitely. And not just Google, but like, you know, I went to like search for a restaurant on like Yelp or something, and it was like, it wasn't necessarily the best, but it was ranked first because it was sponsored, and you have to look for that word, and it's like, oh wait. . So yeah, lots of ads. Anne: And so I think that by the way, Erikka, this is probably another podcast episode, but thinking about marketing and ads, adding ads into your daily practice could be something that would be worthwhile. And again, that's another investment, but I say that just because I'm noticing the increase on the first page of Google of ads showing up. And so you wanna make sure that the keyword that people search for will show up your entry on the first page, if possible, because not many people click to the second or third pages. However, I will say because of the amount of ads I have been going to the second page more often now. Erikka: Yeah. I've seen that. Anne: But what makes a good keyword? So of course you can put voiceover in your body of text that you put on your website or on your profile. But I also think you definitely need to target it more specifically to what you want to be found for. So for example, if somebody typed in voiceover coach or commercial voiceover coach, and I'd have to keep checking right now, but I have certain words that I wanna be found for. But if somebody types in commercial VO coach, that's a different set of words than commercial voiceover coach. So keep that in mind because people say, well, I didn't find you when I searched for you under commercial VO coach. And I'm like, well, that doesn't necessarily mean that you won't find me under commercial voiceover coach. So I think a lot of times in order to get yourself found on that first page, try to think specifically and narrow down that focus on your target. So for example, if I say "commercial voiceover Orange County," I will show up on the first page exactly. Or "narration voiceover coach Orange County," that kind of thing. And if I don't, by the time this airs , I will, I will be working to make sure that that happens because I have a certain set of words that I wanna be found for. Now, it would be great if I could be found for voiceover coach, that in general, but there's a lot of voiceover coaches out there that use that as well as their a search term. So it really behooves you to think about what it is that you wanna be found for. Erikka: Absolutely being specific is so key 'cause like you said, everyone is gonna have voiceover and not just that, but the first page, if you just have voiceover or even VO or just those sort of generic terms, you're gonna get eaten up by the sites that are corporations that have thousands of dollars into voiceover, some of the P2Ps. Anne: Exactly. Erikka: You know what I mean? So you're gonna get pushed down and, and maybe not even be in the first three pages. You'll get found for what you wanna get found for, for what really your niche is because we all have different areas of expertise. Anne: Exactly. Erikka: Not just in genre, but in like how our voice sounds like, how do you describe your voice?What adjectives do you use? What celebrity references would you compare your voice to? Anne: I think celebrity references are great too. Erikka: Oh yeah. Yeah. Anne: So many people forget about that, their soundalike, and that really helps. And I think you should absolutely put that on your website. Because that will help target the search even more. Yeah. Erikka: Alt text in photos is another good thing to have just to get your site higher ranked in general. The better that Google likes your website, doing things like to make it clean and having the hierarchy right so you get site mapped, and that's where like if you search for a website and you'll see where it says, like if you search for Erikka J, you'll see like about and voiceover and music, like you'll see the different subpages on the Google initial search, that means you've been site mapped. So Google kind of ranks you higher just for that reason alone. So a lot of different things to consider. Anne: Well, I think that that's wonderful. I think, so number one is knowing that. The way search engine optimization works is, or the way search engines work is they pretty much keyword or they index your website with all the words on it. And so when somebody says to you, oh, I think that your website is too busy or it's too wordy. I always say, mm, think again. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: I mean, if you ever look at my website, I've got words everywhere. And so the reason for that is for SEO purposes. I want to be able to be found. And so these people they're like, I really want clean voiceover webpages that, you know, you can get to the demos right away, which I agree with, but I'll tell you what. Clean doesn't necessarily mean that you're not being verbose about who you are and what kind of a business you are. Because when I search for, let's say, I wanna find a particular product, like I'm trying to find green chickpeas. I just say that -- Erikka: That's pretty particular. Anne: It's particular, and it's very difficult to find green chickpeas, but when I type that in the websites that come back, I wanna be able to click on them and immediately purchase. And so when somebody types in those keywords for you, commercial voiceover or explainer narrator, whatever that is, you wanna show up on that first page. And then when they click on you, you want that page to be accessible and easy to buy. Erikka: Yes. Yes. Anne: Easy to buy and look professional. So I think in terms of the SEO, the search engine optimization being optimized for your site, I think it helps to have more words that accurately describe who your business is and what words you wanna be found as. So you must include those. And you mentioned the alt text, which is great. And somebody who doesn't necessarily design websites may not know what that is. But that is text that you put around an image in the code of the HTML of the website, which you can do if you understand a little bit about WordPress or whatever your website has been developed in. My websites are all in Wix now. I was using WordPress and then my websites became very complex in terms of eCommerce happening. I have a CRM embedded. I have email that I'm sending from these websites. So Wix kind of worked out for me for that because it had all of those embedded into the website, those capabilities. And with that, any web provider, if it's Wix, if it's WordPress, you know, hosted on a GoDaddy website, whatever it is, they're going to have some sort of provision for SEO where you can insert keywords. That is very, very helpful, not only having the words on your website, and I think also dividing your website into different sections. So like I have a commercial voiceover landing page. I have a corporate narration landing page. I have an explainer landing page, a telephony landing page. And so that just makes it even easier to find, because again, I can put more of those words on my website by having specific landing pages Erikka: And it's more targeted. So I mean, you know, obviously we're talking about having the right copy and having, you know, these SEO terms. You don't wanna word vomit, right, and just have like all the words that you think are gonna get you found. It still has to be cohesive and make sense. And it has to be true. Nothing's worse -- I don't know about you guys, but if I'm searching for like great Mexican food near me and I get something that's totally unrelated, that's annoying, and it pisses your buyer off. So make sure it's still relevant. So definitely getting those pages that are relevant to the topic can target who you're trying to talk to with that demographic. And I believe it may have changed 'cause I know Google was more so understood words and they're starting to have more like a computer vision where they can understand images more. But I think having at least 500 words was the cutoff last I heard from someone that worked at Google per page to get it kind of recognized and rank. Anne: Yeah. I think they're starting to recognize words within photos as well. Erikka: They are. Yep. Yep. Anne: I absolutely think that having, first of all, more words and targeted words that make sense -- by the way, you'll get penalized, if you just do what they call keyword stuffing. So you can't just throw in the words. And as a matter of fact, if you throw in more words like voiceover talent or voiceover or VO and you put too many of them in your pages and they don't make sense, you'll get penalized and you certainly don't want that to happen. And by the way, I always tell people that SEO is one of those things. Now we talk about Google, right, because that's my search engine. I don't really go to any other search engine. Do you, Erikka? Erikka: I don't. Anne: Yeah. So in reality there are other search engines, but I really don't use any. It's always Google, and nobody knows really Google's algorithm unless you work for Google. And that is a proprietary thing. And I remember SEO people would study that and there are different versions of the Google algorithm that come out and they name them. And so every time Google would come out with a new algorithm, they'd say, well -- and I think one of 'em was called like the penguin. I can't remember, but everybody would come out and say, okay, since Google's new algorithm, here's what you need to do to get good SEO. And so I'm just gonna say, if you don't work for Google, you don't know you don't. You just don't. So if you have somebody that comes to you and says, I can make you show up on the front page, I want you to probably just run far away. Because I just have never really believed people 'cause that used to be a real business. People would just be, they were SEO people and we can get you on the front page and you pay us all this money. And in reality they would keyword stuff. And that was back in the day. And I still have people who email me and spam me about SEO and getting myself on the front page. So beware -- Erikka: Me too. Anne: -- that, unless they work for Google, they don't really know. And I'm all about, and I think Erikka, you too, I'm all about organic SEO, and organic is absolutely let's write the verbiage. Let's use the words on our website and in our profiles that accurately describes who we are, what we do and what we would like to be found for and not keyword stuff. And that's worked wonders for me in the past years because as I mentioned before, I have a lot of different divisions of my business that I work at. And I don't have time to audition all the time. So for me getting work that finds me or getting clients that find me first, then they have the opportunity to listen to the demos on my site. And if my demos are targeted to the specific genre, and they nail the sound that the client is looking for, boom, I've just taken care of half of the work in terms of getting that lead and then solidifying it so that I can get paid. Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. You don't want someone to find you and then they find that you weren't the right match. You don't want to attract the wrong client and ends up wasting your time. So the more targeted and sort of more strategic that you are with those keywords to make the right match happen automated, take that manual workout for yourself, it's a win for both sides. So absolutely. Anne: I like how you said you don't wanna attract the wrong client. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And interestingly enough, I always hear about people talking about being low balled in a lot of the Facebook groups and they'll be like, oh, you know, they only offered me this or this is what they're offering. And I'm like, interestingly enough, I never quite meet clients like that. And I'm going to very humbly attribute it to a great web designer, my great web designer who shall remain nameless because they can't take on anymore clients and a great writer for the verbiage of which I worked many, many years myself on on trying to hone that and really working with someone to figure out who am I? Who do I want to be? How do I wanna be found online? And really working, not just a day on that. It has evolved over years of writing, rewriting and a lot of work. And it has been, I think one of the most successful things that I've ever done for my business that has garnered me, I'm gonna say, three quarters of my income was a great website with great verbiage that says exactly who I am, targets who I want to find me, and just gets me work without me having to go and cold call people or email people or whatever it is, just being found. And it's not just the website, but it's a website in combination with social media profiles. And also not just the words on the website, but I know we're specifically talking SEO, but the words in combination with the actual website that looks professional enough so that people, when they see it, they trust it, and they're willing to click and buy so to speak. Erikka: Yeah. One of the best compliments I got was somebody told me, oh, your website looks expensive. And I was like -- Anne: Yeah, right? Erikka: -- perfect! because I want clients that, that know they're not going to get a $50 voiceover from me. Anne: And that's it. And then I guess that was the long story of me getting back to your point about you don't wanna attract the wrong client. If somebody comes to me, they're not gonna offer me $.08 a word. You know what I mean? For e-learning. I'm not even attracting that type of client. I'm attracting the type of client that is going to be willing to pay. And funny enough, I was like, and now of course I'm gonna have another one of those moments, but I said something to my husband, I said yesterday, I don't even care what it costs, but I am hunting for this product because I want it to be the right product. And I want it to be quality product, and I'm willing to pay for it. And that I think is something so important for us as business owners and entrepreneurs that we understand that. I shop online all the time. I love online shopping. I think it's the best thing since sliced bread personally. Erikka: Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, think about how it is when, when you guys are shopping, when -- there are times when you're more budget driven, when you're like, all right, what can I get what I need for the lowest price? And there are times like you just said, Anne, you know, when you're like, look, I don't care what it costs, but I need a certain level of quality. Anne: Yeah. I need this. I'm just gonna particular brand or yep. Erikka: Yep. And that's what you want your brand, your website, your digital storefront to say about you. Anne: Yep. You wanna be the Kleenex. Erikka: Yes. There you go. The Puffs Plus with lotion Anne: I need the Anne Ganguzza of voiceover. And also I wanna just mention that everybody should always have their name associated with their business, AnneGanguzza.com. And I tell people, I want you to be the Kleenex of voiceover. I need that Anne Ganguzza. Oh, I'm sorry. I need an Anne Ganguzza, you know, that kind of thing. I need an Erikka J . Really, that is important. And there's so many people that come up with these clever little names for their URLs and I'm like, well, that's great, but also have your name. Right? Erikka: Well, use them and, and I guess this is sort of a little, it's still kind of related to SEO in a way, but you can do that and use redirects. That's one thing I do a lot because people frequently forget that I have two K's in my name or where they wanna put two RS or whatever. So I have had other things like EJ Voiceover that are easier to find, but it still redirects you to ErikkaJ.com. Anne: Absolutely. Erikka: So you can still do those little clever names that get people's attention and have it tell them what your name is when they get there. Anne: Unless you have somebody else out there with another name that might be, I don't know, somebody undesirable that you may not wanna be found for. Then I say, add the word, voice or voiceover afterwards, you know, Anne Ganguzza Voiceover. Everybody's like, well, Anne Ganguzza, isn't that difficult to spell? I'm like, well, I'm a Kleenex. So -- Erikka: Teach them. Anne: And like, Erikka J, I will tell you, Erikka, I learned right away because you're somebody I wanted to know. I knew I wanted to be in contact. I immediately remembered the two Ks and not two RS. Erikka: Aww. Thank you. Anne: But it's true. Right? So I just now know -- Erikka: It's true. Anne: And I think that any client, right, that wants you, they learn it and that's it. And you stay in their brains and that is what makes you unique. And I love your last name. It's so like Ganguzza... Anne: Thank you. It is a cool name. Isn't it? It's one of the reasons why I took it Erikka: Right, right, right, right, right. You're like, honey, this is a business decision. Anne: Well, it kind of was. My name before was Lucy, and that was also a cool name. So I just thought Anne Ganguzza was a cool sounding name, but Anne Lucy was always also really a cool name 'cause people sometimes would call me Lucy instead of Anne. But when I first started, I picked a URL and I said, Annespeaks.com. And I thought it was so clever. And the funny thing is, is that nobody searched for Anne -- like, what is an Anne speaks? Is that like a noun? What is that? I mean, you would like it to be, but in the beginning it did not serve me well, even though I thought I was so clever. Erikka: That's memorable, you know? Yeah. But like Anne Ganguzza, how can you forget that? Anne: That's right. And if you want Anne Ganguzza, you'll know how to spell that name. Erikka: That's right. That's right. Anne: That's the point. You'll find it. That's the point. So don't worry BOSSes out there. If you have a name that's difficult to spell, I always say, get that name and then get redirects. Like things that are easier, like your first name voiceover.com or whatever. But that again is part of the SEO as well. Not just the words that you have on your website, but also in your URL. Erikka: Yes. Anne: So if they are words that people typically search for that you wanna be found, you can also include those in your URL. And it's not expensive these days -- Erikka: Not at all, not at all. Anne: -- to get additional URLs, to buy additional domain names. And then let's see, I have about 11 websites, Erikka. How many do you have? Erikka: Oh man. Err... More than 10. Anne: There you go. There you go. So the thing is, is I think for people who have been in the business and have a little bit of at least knowledge about SEO and understand the, the advantages and the benefits, you can create what you mentioned before, those redirects, that go to your website. So I also happen to have the eLearningvoice.com, medical-narration.com, phone-voice.com and all of these other genre based website domains. And they have, again, more words on the page that discuss who I am. Right? What my business does, my voiceover for explainers or voiceovers for telephony, voiceovers for -- and that also contributes to my overall SEO in the world of online searching. And so I pay for those websites. I pay for the maintenance of those websites. And so it is an investment, guys. But I, I think if anybody has a problem finding me online, they maybe don't know how to type it properly because -- Erikka: Well, I mean, that's what it's all about is being easy to be found. So what can you do to make it easy for people to find you? Because the internet is vast . I mean, it is so big So what are you gonna do to help people filter through the noise to find you? Anne: Google yourself. Erikka: Oh my goodness, yes. In an incognito window, which means that it's not looking at your cookies or anything like that or any, it's not seeing it through the lens of anything else you've searched. If you use Chrome or whatever browser, but you should see like in, I know in Chrome, in the upper right corner, there's like three dots. And if you click that, it'll say new incognito window and it'll be like dark. That means that you're in like, almost like a brand new browser and -- Anne: it's a dark window. Erikka: -- if you Google -- it's the dark web. Anne: You Google yourself in the dark window, on the dark web. Erikka: Google yourself. And then you will see how you are coming up from the dark web. No. Anne: But that's so important. Erikka: Seriously. Yeah. It's is. It is. Anne: That is so important. Erikka: You'll be shocked. Anne: And I say, Google yourself regularly, because you don't wanna be found for things that maybe you don't wanna be found for. Erikka: Right. Or old things, you know, like -- Anne: Exactly. I love that. You said old things because that's so important that we make sure that you clean up, make sure you clean up online. If you can. It's really difficult sometimes to completely clean up things that have been said. And that again, could be another podcast episode. If you've said things online, your social posts show up online as well. Erikka: Yes, they do. Anne: They do.   Erikka: I've definitely seen Twitter posts come up in a Google search for me. And I was like, oh, okay. Anne: So if you searched your name, right, Anne Ganguzza, I think the first thing, if it's properly done, that should come up is your website. Erikka: Should be, yes. Anne: Right? Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: And if you have multiple pages on your website, which I think is a good thing, and Erikka, I believe that you agreed with me, you'll see like you're about section, you'll see whatever that might be about, demos, those types of things, whatever sections, they should also show up. And then I think the next thing might be either YouTube or LinkedIn or whatever your social media social profiles are. I think YouTube possibly is the next one that come up. Erikka: It depends on the one you're most active in, honestly. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: If you're not super active on YouTube, like me, like I haven't posted anything with there in a while, bad Erikka but yeah. Anne: Yeah. So the next thing for me is YouTube. 'Cause I've been doing a little blurb on YouTube trying to yeah -- and again, that's another thing that I've been doing to try to increase my SEO is I've been putting out weekly videos. And so not only for VO BOSS, do I put out weekly videos, but for Anne Ganguzza I do. So for each brand I'm putting out well VO Peeps, I mean I'm only one person, but as most people know, I have a team of people that help me. I have been putting my own videos out on Anne Ganguzza to try to increase the Anne Ganguzza brand and VO BOSS, we do all of our episodes weekly. We put that on YouTube as well, just to contribute to the SEO. And as a matter of fact, we also transcribe our episodes as well to help any possible type of SEO. So if you were to search or if you listen to any of the episodes on, let's say Apple Podcasts or Spotify, you'll see that the transcripts are there as well. Erikka: Yeah. And I think, I think LinkedIn is another one that comes up heavy for me because it is one of the largest -- Anne: Yes, me too. Erikka: -- social media platforms in the world. And a lot of people sleep on LinkedIn. I know in our community we talk about it more, but seriously it's like, 'cause you know, it's like it's Facebook in a suit. You know, people say that, but -- Anne: It is Facebook in a suit. Erikka: But just about everybody's there. So -- Anne: Everybody's on it. Yes, absolutely. And you're right. And now there's the feed. And so I'm posting daily to that, and I'm trying to post content that matters. So another thing that can help you with SEO is to publish content and update it regularly or new content. And so I also blog on a weekly basis, and one of my blogs every week is my video that I've put on YouTube, which I've then transcribed, which then becomes a blog of mine. And then I also write a blog every other week. So that again are words that come back to my website so that again, people can find me easily. Erikka: Yeah. Another thing I did fairly recently, which I probably need to do some maintenance work on, but I'd created a business on Google business. Anne: Oh yes. Good idea. Erikka: Which is easy to do. And then that way you could actually get people to write reviews for you too. So yeah. You can come up there and show up as a business. So. Anne: That's the other thing, when you do a Google search on yourself, that should show up. That and Yelp always showed up pretty high up. But I think lately they've not been coming up as high up in the search. Erikka: I haven't seen Yelp as high lately, but -- Anne: Yeah. You know, well, there's so many issues with Yelp, I think with people sabotaging other businesses by writing bad reviews and that sort of thing, which was a real thing. Erikka: Yeah. I mean, SEO's kind of like credit scores, right? Like you said, the algorithm changes all the time. You get the most information that you can to try to optimize, but you're not gonna master it because it's proprietary to those companies, and they put a lot of money into keeping them very secret and specialized. Just do the best you can. Anne: So consider, you know, I'm thinking for the future, it's gonna be something I've been looking at too. I mean, if you're not advertising already, think about that. Because it's becoming more and more prevalent out there, but for sure, understand who you are, define who you are as a business, figure out what keywords you want to be found for, make sure that they appear in your websites, make sure they appear in your social media profiles and try to just Google yourself every week or so. And longevity by the way, has something to do with it. So make sure that you are Googling yourself every week, every other week, and you too can win at the SEO game, and it's not that complicated. Erikka: It's not. And bringing it back to our balance theme, you know, it's like we do things actively to get these leads and to get these jobs every day, like auditions or you know, some people on P2Ps or doing your direct marketing. SEO is something that you can do passively so that work just walks in the door. Anne: There you go. I love it. Wow. I could talk another half an hour on this at least. Erikka: I could. I think we both talk a lot, Anne because we get paid for it. Anne: Ah, there we go. Yeah. Well BOSSes, you can use your voice to make an immediate difference and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. You can absolutely make a difference for a small, quarterly contribution. And a great big shout-out to our sponsor. ipDTL. You too can network and communicate like BOSSes like Erikka J and I, and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Erikka: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

How do you plan to avoid risk? BOSSES, we're here to help! In this episode, Anne & Erikka dive into the essential planning every entrepreneur should be doing for balance in their business & life. From setting up your 401k to planning for retirement, they bring it all back to how balance is managing and planning for what the future holds. Set up your will, find a good life insurance plan, and know that your future self will be thanking you for all the hard work. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am back with my brand new series, Balance, with our special guest. Co-host Erikka J. Hey Erikka. Erikka: Hey Anne. Hey BOSSes. Anne: How are you? Erikka: I'm pretty good. How about you? Anne: Thankfully? I am good today. Not that I was really bad any other day, but I've had a few doctor's appointments recently. It got me to thinking, because I still visit my oncologist every few months and I had had some troubling blood results, which are fine, everybody. It's fine. And I'm very thankful about that, but it made me think about what if, God forbid, something should happen to me, and I was unable to work at my full time voiceover career for a certain amount of time or what if I was out for a couple months if I had to have surgery or, or whatnot? And I thought it would be a really good discussion to have. It may not be the most happy pleasant discussion to have, but I think it's an important one to have for BOSSes that run their own business. Erikka: Absolutely. I'm a big proponent of balance in looking at it's easy to think about the present and all the things that you have to do to presently run your business. But to take a balanced approach is also to think about planning for the future. So -- Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Erikka: -- things happen that we don't like, you know, either we get sick or no one wants to say it, but one day we're gonna die, all of us. We have that in common and hopefully one thing happy to talk about is one day we'll all retire and just be able to do the things that we love, even though we love this work. But you know, maybe just being able to go to the beach and make that be your job, you know, so planning for retirement. Anne: Yeah. Such great points. And you know, I've made it fairly clear to many people that know me, that I am planning for retirement. And I don't wanna have to be burdened with, oh my gosh, where's my money coming from? I wanna be able to enjoy my retirement. So let's talk about the things that maybe when you are a creative entrepreneur, we don't necessarily invest in that help us to plan for the future. I mean, number one, health insurance, of course. And I'll tell you, my story is, well, my husband works. And so I'm taking advantage of that. And I take advantage of his healthcare plan, which thankfully has been a good one. And we make sure that we get the best that we can get just simply because I have had health challenges in the past. And it really is a lifesaver when it comes to money in terms of whatever we have to pay out when I go to see the doctor, right. It's kind of crazy. So I think health insurance is super important. And I know if you are union and you are in a certain level of earnings, you can take advantage of the healthcare that they offer. Erikka: Yeah. Actually, everybody knows that currently I'm still have a full-time job. So I'm somewhat in the same position as you, Anne, in that I still have corporate insurance, but I am about, I think like $50 away from qualifying for SAG insurance. Anne: It's there you go. Erikka: It's like $49 and change. It's pretty funny actually. but that's definitely something I'm looking at, even as if it's a possibility to have a secondary. Anne: Well, that's what I was just gonna ask you. Like that's not something that you would replace your current corporate health insurance. Erikka: No, no. No, not for now. I mean, obviously the whole corporate job, that's where I'm at today. Will I still be doing that 10 years from now, doing both? I doubt it. So kind of just having that plan for the future and making sure that me and my family have health insurance. Anne: And it's not a guarantee anymore that when you go to work for a company that you're going to get health insurance these days. There has been a pandemic. And I think that there's probably no more important time to maybe think about health insurance as when there's a pandemic happening. And you wanna make sure that you keep yourselves healthy and can pay for any care that you might need. And especially now let's say you get long-term COVID and that affects you. You were a full-time voice talent. Even if you weren't a full-time voice talent, if you're part-time and you can't voice, what are you going to do? So what about health insurance that could be a secondary health insurance? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think that's a great segue to number two is disability insurance. That's something that a lot of corporations offer as well, but if you're not working for a corporation or maybe it's just not as affordable, there are independent disability policies out there. And I do have one, even though I have the corporate job to supplement. So if you can't voice for a few weeks, you can still get some income. Anne: Right. That's actually so smart of you. So what made you make that decision to purchase independent insurance? Erikka: Yeah, I think it was probably -- God. How long ago? At least maybe like seven or eight years ago, I started talking to a financial planner, and we started talking about life insurance and sort of disability insurance comes up in that conversation because it's all about wealth protection. Right? So even though it's making you great money, it's like, again, something happens to you, and that is gone or a lot of corporations with the long term disability, it cuts you down to like 60%. My father had a really bad accident that almost killed him four years ago. And his disability insurance, you know, like, I think like the first week or two was like short term and it's 100%, but then it went down to 60%. He had a mortgage, you know, a dog, like, you know, you don't plan for these kind of things to happen. So you have to have that contingency plan in place. So it really just made me think I had two kids. I was a single mom at the time. And it was like, you know, if something happens, I gotta make sure that we're okay. And I am risk averse. Like the definition, look at dictionary, Erikka J's picture is there. So So I like to have a plan and plan ABC. So I needed to have life insurance and disability. Anne: And you know, what's so interesting. Even health insurance, I'm just gonna backtrack. Just a touch, because it's not a secret. I had some expensive surgery, not so long ago. And in a year, if you have a decent insurance plan, a lot of times they'll say, well, we'll cover you up to... And then after so much money that you put into it out of pocket, we cover 100%. Well, what happens is when you reach that number where you shouldn't typically have to pay anymore out of pocket, guess what? They start determining the procedures that are actually qualify for that. I've got, see, I got so upset about it. I was, I couldn't even get it out. So yeah, some procedures and some portions of your doctor visits or, or procedures, they are not covered under that. I was like, well, look, at least I made my goal. So now I shouldn't have to pay anything else for my next, you know, set of tests that come back. No, come to find out that a lot of that stuff, some of it isn't covered under the policy and the plan. And so you really have to read those plans carefully and the fine print, 'cause a lot of times they make it sound a whole lot better than it might be. Erikka: And I'll backtrack with you, Anne, I'll run back to where you are. Not all health insurance plans are equal, right? So even the ones that are offered by corporations or by, you know, whatever, you know, full-time job you might have or part-time, it might be that if you qualify for SAG insurance, it might be that that plan is better. You have to look at the deductible, you have to look at what is and is not covered at what percentage who's in network that's close to where you are. You know, so just having a plan and not just kind of taking what's thrown at you and looking at your options is super important for health insurance and dental, dental. Oh my goodness, dental. We talk, please take care of your mouth. Anne: Is there any dental plan that covers more than a $1000 worth of work. That's what I wanna know. Erikka: Yeah. I don't think so. Anne: Because I think everybody has the same plan, and it covers up to $1000, and yet some of those dental procedures are way more than that. Especially I know I went through implant surgery a couple years back, and I had to strategically time it so that I got maximum amount of coverage one year, and then I could get the rest of it the following year. And so -- Erikka: We did the same. Anne: -- thankfully I could schedule things a little bit apart so that I could strategically get more money. And that's so important for us, right? I mean, in the middle of those surgeries, you know, my voice changed because I didn't have teeth maybe, or I had teeth or I was having a problem with my teeth, and I was in pain. So that's definitely something to think about. Now, most people, and I'm gonna come back to the short term disability, most people don't even think about short-term disability these days because it's just one of those kind of, I don't know, rare things. But the problem with thinking about it in that way is that it only takes one thing to happen where you will need short term disability or in long term disability. And that's when it becomes uber important that you have protected yourself. Erikka: Absolutely. And that's the balanced mindset, right? Is like none of us want to think about being hurt or not being able to do something for ourselves or being, you know, in a bad space. But the reality is that it is possible. A few years ago I was thinking that I was still a little younger than I was and jumping on a trampoline with my kids and rolled my ankle pretty bad before at a gig when I was doing stage performances. So when I was jumping on the trampoline, it really made it bad. And I had a high ankle sprain and I was in a boot for like six weeks. So thank God. I mean actually it's voice over, you know, that doesn't really affect us too much, but there may be some things that happen where you could be taken outta the game for six weeks or so. Anne: You know, you could be in pain and just that simple fact, right, it affects because what we do is with our bodies and you know, not just our mouths, right? But our bodies and if our bodies are affected, it affects our mouths. It affects our performance. It affects our mental health. I will say, thank goodness that we do, at least when I went through my surgeries, I was back in the studio after two weeks, thankfully. But I also couldn't be in the booth for too long. Otherwise I got tired. I was still recovering. And so thankfully during that time, you know, my husband had a job, but if this were what was supplying the family with financial aid, it would really be something that I would've thought about. Erikka: Yeah. And this is something I'll have to dig more into. So nobody take my word for this. I'm just kind of expressing a thought here. I do think that there are some plans that allow for like partial disability, because like you mentioned, like, you know, right now, like let's say you were back in the booth, but you weren't able to work at full capacity, and you can prove that your income has been affected by that dramatically. I do think that there are some policies that can help you with that too, because you can show that your income has been reduced by a medical condition. That's partially disabled. So just even thinking like that, that there's a variety of scenarios that can happen that none of us want to happen, but planning for the future is important so that you don't put yourself in a bad spot. Anne: And I don't care how old you are. actually the younger you are, the younger you are, I'm gonna say it's highly recommended to think about these things when you're young. Because let's say retirement, right, if you start putting away for retirement or you have a company that is -- do companies match? Erikka: A lot of them do. Anne: Do companies match anymore? Okay. That's good. Erikka: Yeah, mine does. And it's fantastic. Anne: Yeah. That was a big benefit, right, that your companies would match what you put into your retirement that was like, ooh, I have great benefits. And it's really all about that. And I, I have a feeling though that these benefits are slipping away from companies, but they're still very, very important. And I know back when I did work, I have a pension thankfully, which will be coming to me. And so does my husband. So we have that that we're accounting on, but we've also got other plans as well that we've invested in. Mutual funds and whatever it is. What about any other types of investments that you can recommend? Erikka: Yeah. So number three, retirement. Definitely. If you are at a job, please, please, please, please, please get a 401k and do your matching. There are a lot of, I've read quite a few books on this subject that a lot of advice that say that don't go over whatever they're matching. And I could definitely see for me, that's what I do is just up to the match. So like my company matches 6% of my income, so I contribute 6%, and anything else that I can do I put in other places, 'cause you don't wanna have all your eggs in one basket. Anne: Yes. Is that why the recommendation says not to go more than that and to put it elsewhere? Erikka: Because the thing is that when you come of age and you take that money out from the 401k, now that money becomes taxable. And you don't wanna be in a position where now you're 70 and you're paying more taxes, right, than what you're pulling out, then you're making money. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So the thing is that you wanna spread it out, spread the love a bit. And the thing is that as entrepreneurs, we get to double dip. We get to have the 401k, if you're still working at a corporate job, and you can also get a SEP, a self-employed retirement plan or self-employed plan, something like that. I actually just opened one this year. Well, last year. So that way you can put that money aside, still can be pre-taxed. There are also after tax options, like Roths and whatnot. Anne: Yep, yep. That's what I have. Yep. Erikka: Yeah. And there are like different things. You can invest it in like real estate, you know, you can pick which mutual funds or whatever, or have somebody manage it for you. But you just have more than one option to fund your retirement. Anne: By the way, this is a disclaimer for the podcast is that we are not wealth management experts. Erikka: Not at all. This all from personal experience. Anne: Just sharing, yes Just sharing our personal experiences. Yes. And so I'm thankful that I have pensions set up, but that doesn't mean that I'm not investing now smartly in other areas. You know, I have a Roth IRA. I have a financial planner that I work with, and he's actually been taking care of me since my job actually. I just kind of stayed with him because he knows me well and I trust him. And I think that's an important thing, like what to look for in a financial planner. Did you have one recommended to you or? Erikka: Yeah, that's a great question. You know, what's really funny is I don't remember how I met my financial planner. 'Cause originally it was one guy, and I think maybe somebody at work might have referred him, but that guy ended up leaving the company. And I got replaced with another guy and now we're like friends, Brandon, shout out to Brandon with Northwestern Mutual. He's a great guy. I think somebody that just, first of all, listens, they're not just trying to sell and shove stuff down your throat, really listening to your needs and your concerns and what you're looking for, what you feel comfortable with from a budget perspective on spending. The thing that I loved about my financial planers too, is that they didn't jump into the sale of the plan. They obviously explained it to me, but from a total wealth health perspective. We looked at like my debt and like coming up with a plan to get that paid down or off, which yay, I've pretty much done other than the mortgage and student loans. But yeah. So just really somebody that's gonna listen and take your needs into account and make that first, before they get the sale. 'Cause obviously they are selling policies at the end of the day, but yeah, I think that's important. Anne: That's true. And we always have to think about that. They are selling something at the end of the day, and they are profiting off of it. And so that's why it's so important that, yeah, you can find someone that you can connect with. And I think you're right. Looking at someone who's really looking at you and your financial future and at least seems like they have your best interests at heart before they try to sell you. Erikka: For sure. For sure. Anne: Because I think a lot of us get a little bit, whoa. The eyes like, oh my God, I don't know. Talking about money and financial planning gets me nervous. Erikka: Yeah. A lot, lot of people. Anne: Because that's not necessarily my forte. Erikka: yeah. Then you start adding in things that are seen as like morose, which I think is number five we're on now is life insurance. It's like, nobody wants to think about dying. Anne: Yeah. Right? Erikka: It's like, I'll just be here until whatever happens. And I don't wanna think about what's gonna happen. But if you have a family, if you wanna have anything that you wanna leave behind. And honestly, even if you don't have kids, if you have things, like if you have built up some type of wealth, if you have a house, you don't want people fighting over that stuff in probate court and whatnot. And like people trying to figure out how to pay for your funeral. I hate what hurts my heart when I see GoFundMes to have to pay for someone's funeral. You know, families should be able to grieve without having to worry about the money to do it. Anne: I agree. Erikka: Get life insurance. There are so many different types of plans and some are, are more affordable than others. At least look into it and you know, put it in your plan. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. And with that, I mean, again, wills, wills are important. Erikka: Wills, power of attorney and trusts. Anne: Exactly. Erikka: Again, it's just my personal experience. But I have talked to a professional and bad girl Erikka, I haven't done it yet, but it is on my list for this year. Yeah. I was educated that a will is not enough. A will, can be contested in probate court. And I was shocked. I was like, really? Are you sure? Like for the lawyer -- Anne: That's actually news to me. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Wow. So what else is necessary then? Erikka: So I've heard that like a trust is really kind of the most, I guess I could say foolproof --again, I'm not a lawyer, so this is what I've been told. And what I've heard is the easiest way to ensure that what you want to go down goes down. If you already have things set aside in a trust for your kids or for whoever, there's nothing to contest. It's already set aside, their name is on it. The ownership just passes on to them having a power of attorney, especially medical, someone to make those decisions for you. Knowing what the hierarchy is is that normally it will go to your spouse. If you're not married, it will go to the oldest child. If you don't have an oldest child, it'll go to the parent. I might have that mixed up. But knowing what that is, and if that person doesn't want that responsibility, you need to put it on paper of who it might be. Anne: Exactly, exactly. Erikka: Like maybe your husband or wife doesn't want that choice because it's too hard for them. I don't know. Like you have to talk about that. Anne: And not only do it just once, but you have to update it when things happen. Erikka: God, yes. Anne: Right? In the family, it needs to be updated. And I'm guilty of that right now because you know, a family member has unfortunately passed away. And so I need to think about, okay, who would be next in line for my possessions once I pass on? So it is important to kind of keep those things up to date. Erikka: Yep. Yep. And guardianship agreements, which was something I had never heard about. But you have to think about that. If you do have kids, being able to have on paper or even if you're incapacitated for a little while. If God forbid you get COVID, you're intubated for, you know, a couple weeks, who's gonna take care of your kids in the meantime? You don't want that decision to be up in the air. So yeah. All these planning for the future sort of items are just important to think about, especially if you are really just doing voiceover or entrepreneur and don't sort of have, you know, another company that supplies these things for you, you wanna supply them for yourself. Anne: Yeah. And again, bringing this back towards the idea of a balanced entrepreneurial, you know, career. And not just what's the income that I'm bringing in, but what am I expensing, that kind of a thought process? 'Cause we don't like to think about what we have to pay for, but we certainly love the money coming in. And so we don't always wanna think about the future and protecting ourselves or even investing in ourselves for the future, but it is absolutely a part of your life, right, And of course your business as well, to make sure that you have planned for these types of events that can happen. And especially if we can't work, I think it's so important for us. I think most of us don't even think about it because, number one, we're fortunate that a lot of us can work from home. And we've got our studios in our house, so what could possibly happen that would stop me from being able to work in my house. Well, I can't talk maybe or yeah. Some sort of an illness that takes that away from me. And I'll tell you, I have a lot of people that inquire about voiceover that are disabled or want to be in the home because they can't go out for some reason into the workforce and that maybe they are on disability. And so it is a wonderful career for that. But I think if we're healthy and we're not thinking about that, , we're not thinking about it. And I think we need to. Erikka: Yeah. And it doesn't even have to be bad things like, as has recently, you know, everybody should know now that I am with child at 40. Anne: Yay! Erikka: Jesus. Which, I mean, it's great, but it's a little different than when I was pregnant at 25. So, you know, like there are different complications. I've got thyroid issues now that I, you know, I have to take medication for and watch. I'm a little more at risk for things like preeclampsia that could put me out early or put me in the hospital or put me on bedrest. And if I can't work, even though this is a great occasion -- I'm having a new life and a new new family member, but I have to plan. Anne: And you probably have to visit the doctor more. Erikka: That's the other thing, yes. Anne: Because of that, right? Erikka: Well, and I've also been in the booth a little less. I just had to slow down. I have to go to the doctor very often. So there are times where I might have to push a session out or not be able to do something right away because I have a doctor's appointment. Or, I'm in the booth, my breath support is not the same Anne: So I can vouch for that after having surgery on my chest. Absolutely. I mean, yeah. And also, and this is a -- like I thought I'd be young forever, but I'll tell you what, as I'm becoming older, it is so much more important, your health, taking care of yourself because just, I can't do what I used to do. And it just, that impacts my business a little bit. I mean, it's not, it's not a horrible scenario, but I definitely am feeling age and how it's affected me to be able to perform and do what I do on a day to day basis. Erikka: Right. And the whole point is just to have a plan for it. If you have contingencies in place and you know, things that prepare for the future, then you'll be fine. But we just can't just act like everything's gonna stay the way it is because just like technology, as Anne and I know things get old Anne: We need backups. Erikka: We need backups. Anne: We need backups. That's right. We need backups. Oh man. I'll tell you for sure. And I think that, again, it gets to the point where I know there's a lot of people that try to enter into this industry. And it's one of those where I don't know if it's the concept of the dream of, oh, I can work from home, and it's gonna be easy, that a lot of people come to this business without thoughts of investing in the business. They're like, well, I don't have a lot of money, but I wanna be able to work and make thousands of dollars a month doing voiceover. Erikka: Yeah. Gonna spend so many more thousands first. Anne: But yeah, that's this thing. I mean, I think the whole concept of investing in your business now here's a good balance, right? Not necessarily listening to the dream and simplifying things to the point where, oh, it's just so easy. I'll just be able to buy a microphone and do this. No, there's so many things that you have to think about in order to run your business. And then it's beyond that because I know it took me a long time before I really thought seriously about disability, life insurance now that I am doing this full time and really helping to support the family that I have and be able to contribute to it in a very helpful way versus, oh, I can only contribute this because I'm not a fully owned -- you know, my husband is gonna retire sooner than me. And so I'll be the one that will be kind of taking on the, probably the income for a few years until I retire. I mean, I'd love to be able to retire at the same time. And I'll tell you, that's what I keep trying to do on a day to day basis. But in the meantime I found myself planning my business for extra income and extra streams of income so that I can afford to reinvest it in things that will protect us when I wanna be able to just enjoy my life when I retire and not have to worry about health expenses, not to worry about how am I gonna live, how am I gonna pay the rent, or I wanna travel, how am I gonna pay those bills? And so now is the time to think about those things. And any of you BOSSes out there that are thinking about getting into the industry, it is something that you should consider. Yeah, this industry is not necessarily as easy as a lot of people wanna think it is. Erikka: And you have to think about it that even though yes, we're at home and yes, for the most part, we're either sitting or standing in our booths most of the day or sitting down editing, this is still a physical job. It still is labor. Like -- Anne: How could I break an ankle? Erikka: You know what I mean? Like, yeah. You're probably at low risk to break things, but it is still something that requires your body in order to do the work. So as you get older or things happen where you might get sick, you wanna try to find, you know, passive forms of income that can support you such as policies or real estate investments or whatever other investments you're interested in. But also thinking about, you know, me having to work from home for the past two years before even being pregnant, I put on a couple pounds 'cause I wasn't moving around as much. And that affects health. You know? So making sure that you are thinking about that future and taking care of yourself and doing things to move around and get about that people that are working outside the home kind of get naturally that you may not, if you're working from home doing voiceover. Anne: Exactly. And I love that you brought up the idea of passive income that doesn't have to do with voiceover. I mean, passive income is just a -- we can have a whole podcast on that. Erikka: Oh my God. Anne: It's just the coolest concept, right, the passive income, because that's really where I have been delving my concentration into how can I make passive income that's going to supplement me in retirement? And so I love that you said just in other investments, in other areas, not just voiceover, how can you make passive income in other ways? And so, I think a lot of people think that, oh, if I'm full-time voiceover, that's all I have to do. No, think of it this way. You are an entrepreneur. I don't even really think of it. Oh, I'm a voiceover talent and that is my business. I am an entrepreneur and I am a business first. And so to me, the challenge and the joy is how can I make money? Erikka: Multiple streams of income are the key to wealth. Absolutely. Anne: Yes. Exactly. How can I make money so that I am not worried about it or stressed about it? Because that's one of the biggest issues when we first come into the business and we're doing full-time voiceover, and maybe it's the first time you've had your own business. And now you're like, oh my gosh, where's this money going to come from? That's the huge stressor, I think in the first few years of anyone's business is, oh gosh, where's the money coming from? Where's the income? And when you can start to devise and plan and strategize streams of passive income, I think that's when you're really growing your business. And for me, that's, that's so exciting. Erikka: Isn't it? Like, it's really cool to just be able to like make money in your sleep. If we could like man, like there are ways to do it. There are people that do it and to hop on a soapbox real quick, even things that are related to voiceover, this is why understanding usage and having cutoffs for things that are broadcast are so important because that can be passive income. That is voiceover related. If they use your voice again and wanna run it again, you don't have to get in the booth and make that money. You don't wanna cut yourself out of that. So please, I mean, people, BOSSes that are coming into this and coming to see Anne, please, please, please understand usage and have those things in place. Anne: Oh, I'm so glad you landed on that one. Erikka: Yes. Anne: Yeah. Excellent point and usage is, there's that lovely stream. passive income. Erikka: The residuals. They're beautiful. The unexpected checks. Anne: You gotta love it. You gotta love it. Well, what a great conversation. Maybe not as fun as some people like to think in, in this voiceover business, but a definitely a necessary conversation to have. BOSSes, balance, balance in your career, balance in your life, planning, planning for the future. That is most definitely an important factor in maintaining, achieving balance in your lives and careers. So. Wow. So I'd like to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And I also have another moment that I'd like to take to ask you to imagine a world full of passionate, empowered -- wow. That was a lot of P's -- diverse individuals giving collectively and intentionally to create the world that they wanna see. You can make a difference. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn more about how your voice can make a difference. You guys have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Erikka: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Are you right or left brain dominant? Anne & Erikka are here to bust the left vs. right brain myth, and discuss how both creativity and sensibility are essential in any entrepreneur. For all the creatives, they share tips to help your biz with structure. For our tech peeps, they have creative ideas for getting out of your own way. Make sure you know your studio inside and out, make a backup for the backup, and if you want more tips, you'll just have to tune in! >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza. And today I'm excited to have back to our new series on balance special guest co-host Erikka J. Erikka! Erikka: Hey BOSSes. Anne: Hey. How are you? Erikka: I'm good. How are you, Anne? Anne: Erikka , I'll tell you what, some days I have to say -- I always try to be grateful every day and find something to be grateful for. And so today I am grateful for my experience in the tech world. And I know you can identify with that because you are a tech girl as well. Erikka: Indeed. Anne: Because I had a crash of my Twisted Wave, and crazy enough, the file that I thought was the right file was not the right file, and I lost it. But I will tell you that my experience back in the day was backup, backup, backup. So thankfully I mirror everything onto another drive, and then not only do I mirror things on another drive, but I also back up to the cloud. So thankfully what had auto-saved actually was in the cloud, and I was able to restore it. Thank God, and not have to worry about redoing all of this huge eLearning module that I just did. Erikka: So I can hear the relief in your tone, Anne. Anne: I know. And so I am grateful to have this kind of a, you know -- I was always told that I had like a 50-50 kind of a brain, like the tech brain and the creative. And I enjoy the two of them. And as a matter of fact, Erikka, I love the tech aspect of the business as much as I love voiceover, the creative aspect. Erikka: Oh yeah. Yeah. Anne: I think it's important for successful VO entrepreneurs to have a little bit of a left-right brain thing. Don't you think? Erikka: Absolutely. I talked before about, you know, being an ambivert and then I came up with the term, I think I'm ambi-brained as well. No, it's not a real word. I made it up. I love the fact that we are able to be creative and true artists in this business and have that sort of artistic input, but you have got to have some type of technical and business and analytical aptitude to be successful as well. We are engineers really or the -- no, not as far as the audio engineers, the big ones at the studios. God bless y'all. Anne: Yes. Erikka: But we have to be engineers in some capacity . Anne: Oh my gosh. Yes. I'm so glad you said that. Like let's just say that one more time. So yes, in order to be successful in this business, it is so important to have both the creative and the analytical brain. Because you have to be able to execute on both levels. You have to be able to understand how to convert your audio file to MP3, or you need to understand how to attach a file to an email, or you need to be able to literally, if somebody can talk you through a session on ipDTL or SourceConnect or whatever that is, you need to have a little bit of an aptitude. Otherwise clients may not have the time to be able to walk you through those things or deal with someone who doesn't know how to send them the work that they've requested and they're paying for. Erikka: Yeah. And it's not even just -- you know, I have a stack set up by one of the greats and I'm done, right? Because you have to be able to have that sort of aptitude to know when you run into problems. As we know, as tech girls always happens, technology's gonna technology. Something's gonna happen. And you gotta kind of have that sort of way of thinking to be able to troubleshoot and you know, kind of figure out why aren't they hearing me on Zoom or why am I getting an echo or you know, that kind of thing. So that's really helpful in what we do. Anne: I'll tell you, I always get nervous when I have my students will say to me, yeah, I'm not really good at technology. Well, and I understand that, right? I mean, for people to be excited about technology, sometimes it takes a special geek like myself and I think you to appreciate it. But also it is a responsibility, right? It's a responsibility of your business to be able to function. And if you cannot function in a technical capacity or an analytical capacity that you need to, I think you need to have a full understanding of what it entails so that you can maybe hire or outsource, but also at least know what it takes to succeed and educate yourself. I think that's so important. If you are not really technical go to a computer class, you know? Go to a class that helps you to do whatever it is. Go take an audio editing class. Erikka: Yeah. It's part of the job description. I mean, it's not just talking into a microphone. In 2022 and beyond, people aren't just walking into studios and just letting the engineer do everything anymore, talking, and leaving. You have to know some of this stuff. And maybe, you know, you're not 50-50. Maybe you're not naturally super tech savvy, but it's not like you can't learn it. There are so many classes that are available online where you don't have to go somewhere. It's possible, but you do have to, like Anne said, have some sort of aptitude; you have to. Anne: And like you mentioned before, it's not like you're gonna be an audio engineer for your career. We don't have to go to that level of depth. But we do have to understand how to produce a file in the format that the client has requested. And also we have to understand enough about our equipment so that we can, God forbid, okay, something breaks. I am the biggest person, like I think rule number one for everybody, technologically has to be, have a backup, not just a backup of your files, but a backup of equipment as well. Erikka: Everything, redundancy, redundancy, yes. Anne: And internet. Oh my God. If you don't have the internet, we are sunk. . Like, our internet goes down for like 30 seconds, and I'm like, oh my God, who has taken down my internet? And I literally will run outside and look for people like, 'cause we have fiber in the ground. I'm like, is there somebody working in the fiber underground? Because this cannot be. Our phone runs off the internet kind of thing. Erikka: Oh my goodness. I had somebody doing some work in my front yard, and they swore that, you know, all the lines were marked. The people came out and did 'em. They're like, I was like, did you guys hit a line? I lost my internet. I have a session. And they're like, no, we didn't hit a line. We're good. And I'm like, are you sure? Anne: Oh, I know. Erikka: You know, thank God I had a hotspot. That was my backup. But it was like -- Anne: See? Yes, yes, yes. I was just gonna say, please, for the love of God -- Erikka: Oh goodness, please. Anne: -- have a backup internet, like a hot spot and understand how to get it going. So if you're in the middle of a session, and your internet fails -- and please, the other thing I wanna mention is -- I can't stress this enough. And I even wrote like a blog article. And as a matter of fact, I think I'm gonna throw it out there on the ether again. It's so important for you to, if you can, to have a dependable, reliable connection. And a lot of times wifi is not cutting it. Erikka: It's not, no. Anne: And if you don't know what's happening on your wifi connection, if there's a lot of people let's say watching movies in your household, or maybe, I don't know, you've got something that's causing some sort of interference, right? Sometimes it's as silly as your refrigerator's causing interference and your wifi router is not reachable easily. It's just something that I constantly am telling people when they have a bad connection to me in ipDTL, I'll be like, are you on wifi? Erikka: Yeah. You've gotta hard wire, guys. You have to figure it out. Anne: And then it's hard to explain. Yeah. But I just got it upgraded. Most people are like, oh yeah, no, I've never had a problem. I'm like, but here you really need to have, for audio quality, and this is just gonna go back to my days, thankfully in the tech world, when I installed phone systems, but they were voiceover IP phone systems. So literally in order to hear audio consistently streaming quality, you have to have packet data back and forth with no drops and no interference and no slowness or degradation on the line. And so the same thing really has to happen with your connection to the studio let's say through ipDTL or SourceConnect. So the more of reliable you can make that connection, and that includes your home connection, right? Connects wired to your router, because that's a whole lot more reliable because it's connected wired versus wifi in the air when five, ten other people could be using your network or even your computers and you don't know. Erikka: Yeah. You guys don't see me silently slow clapping in here. Like listen to the BOSS, listen to Anne, guys. You got to get the hard wire connection. Anne: All about the hard wire connection. It's reliable. It is your business. If we didn't do most of our work online, it wouldn't matter as much, but it does. Erikka: Yeah. And it's not even just the internet, just like you said, like having multiple ways to connect, you know, you've got SourceConnect kind of gets wonky. You know, you gotta have a Zoom or Google Meter, ipDTLe or something ready, having more than one interface. I know these things cost money, but as you grow your business and you make some -- set some aside for reinvestment in the business. Please don't just have one microphone. You don't have to have 10 of them like me. But 'cause I'm a nerd. Anne: What will you do if your interface fails right before a session? I've had that happen. Erikka: Oh my God. Yep. Anne: And a lot of times I'm just gonna say, I'm gonna vent a little bit, Erikka. And I think you'll -- Erikka: Do it, do it. Anne: -- people will buy these bundled packages with a microphone, headphones and interface. And -- Erikka: I did it the first time, I did. Anne: One of them is -- I'm not gonna say a name, but it's a kind of a color. It is. Erikka: There's a letter associated with it. Anne: The name is a color. So if you buy something like that in a bundled package, understand that they're probably making it cheaper with cheaper components. And therefore those things that you rely on may fail at the worst time. And I have had so many people where that has failed on them. So please get a backup and don't get the same brand, get a different brand that would be proven reliable. And you know, I got lots of suggestions. I have a page just on the VO BOSS website. We have studio gear. So you can see all my recommendations, but the one that represents the color is not one of my recommendations. Erikka: Na, I mean, it, it has worked, you know, it got me through, I actually still have it like as a stand from my lamp -- Anne: Well, as a backup, it does great. Erikka: -- to remind me of, you know, how I started, you know? Keep me humble. Anne: Oh, I had two of them. I had two of them. Erikka: Hey, it is great. But as you're growing and you're being relied on for live sessions, yeah, you've gotta have something that first of all, the hardware that's more reliable and then a backup for sure. And it's everything cables too. Anne: I'm gonna say your microphone. Erikka: Yes. Microphone. Yep. Yep. Microphones for sure. You gotta back up. Anne: I've never had a microphone fail on me, but -- Erikka: Same. Yeah. Anne: -- I have to say it gave me a good excuse to buy an additional microphone. Erikka: Right? Me too, me too. Anne: I'm gonna say BOSSes. It took me some time because I had a really decent microphone that I used for many years that made me money that was only a few hundred dollars, was wonderful. But then, you know, I upgraded myself to the 416, which is what I'm speaking on now. And of course I have a TLM 103 as well. Erikka: Yep, same here. Anne: So there's my A-B -- and by the way, have it not just as a backup, but if you can quickly switch from one to the other, it's not just, oh, let me go get my microphone, and then you've gotta, rehook it up. And then you gotta like thread the shock mount and that kind of thing. No, have it at the ready. So have a backup, have it the ready. And I always recommend -- I am not like a hardware kind of girl and cables and this and that same, but label, label your cables so that, you know, or take pictures so that you know how things are connected. And that way, if something goes wrong and need to disconnect it, or you gotta replace a piece of equipment, you know how to connect it back again. Erikka: You know, my dad is a hardware guy; that was his tech side. So little bit of a nerd with the cables just in terms of like organization and yes, I have blue painter's tape and I have like, this is the one for input one and I have it on like three points up the cable so that I know which one I'm looking at, just in case I have an off day, this is the one from input two. And I've got backup cables too, just in case. Anne: Levels too. Erikka: Oh my goodness. Anne: You know, taking a picture of the dials. So you know where your levels are. If somebody helps you set it up. Erikka: Speed test for your internet. Anne: Yes. Oh gosh. Yes. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: So that is all the tech side. And it's funny, we end up talking about the tech side so much because I feel like that's where people, the 50 part of the brain is lacking for a lot of people that are struggling. Because the performance, they'll spend dollars on workshops for performance on coaching, which I think is wonderful and amazing. But yet people don't necessarily think about that when it comes to the other part of the brain. And even if you can hire somebody and outsource somebody for the tech side of things -- hey, look, I still hire somebody to set up my stacks and to listen to me once in a while to make sure that everything there is good. And if I need advice in setting up, oh, look, I wanna add another microphone to this interface. How can I do this? And maybe switch it on the fly. I will call an audio engineer to help me do that. But also I need to have that understanding myself of how it all goes together and how it works and how it serves me in my business. So photos, diagrams, label the cables, I think that's important. And you can't be afraid of doing that. And I'll tell you, you learn the most when things break. Erikka: , that is the truth. Anne: Right? Erikka: Keeping things balanced is knowing that, you don't have to know everything. You do have to have some sort of understanding and some sort of aptitude, but it is okay to outsource to someone that is an expert in that area. Anne: Oh yeah. Erikka: Like you said, I still have people, you know, I call Jordan or, you know, Uncle Roy. Anne: Yep. Tim Tippetts. Erikka: I have Tim Tippetts. We're still using, leveraging -- Anne: George Whittam. Erikka: George Whittam, yeah, absolutely -- those people to leverage their technical expertise because they're experts and that's where the most of their brain power is. But I'm not clueless. You know what I mean? And I think that that's important. Anne: Yeah. I think you should always be curious. One of the reasons why I think I excelled in technology and enjoyed it so much in my career was it was very similar to being an entrepreneur. There was a problem that I had to solve, and it was cool because I got to solve many different types of problems, and it was fun, and it was interesting and challenging to me. And that's very similar to as entrepreneurs, we have different things come up every day, and we're solving problems for clients. We're solving problems with our business. We're growing, we're failing. And I have to say, Erikka, the episode that we did, and BOSSes, if you haven't heard it on the modern mindset, failing forward is an amazing episode. It was one of our most popular episodes, about how you can fail. Like I just said, you learn so much when you fail. And you can fail forward so that it helps you to propel your business and expand your mind and learn. And I think that's where people need to be with the other 50% of whatever it is that you're maybe lacking. Maybe people are in technology. I love people that are in tech and then they wanna get into voiceover, 'cause they love the creative part of it. But for me being in tech and having to solve multiple challenges, and they were something new every day, that was creative for me. Erikka: Absolutely. I'm so glad you said that because it's easy to kind of separate them, you know, and we do that while we say left brain, right brain, you know, creative or technical, but it's really, there is a space in the middle, you know. Like the software engineers that I work with, they are creating, they have ideas. Anne: Sure. Erikka: And when we are problem solving or when we're troubleshooting, you're using that creative part of your brain to try to find a way around the problem. So it's absolutely a little bit of both. Anne: Yeah. And I'm thankful for the amount of time that I got to spend in the technological world and solving problems because I think it helped me in my business, and it helps me also be more creative in my performance. Because I'm constantly, here's the problem, I'm thinking about what is the solution and what are the steps to get to the solution? Same thing when you're trying to analyze the script. Right? So it's kind of breaking it down and then saying, okay, so what is the story of the script? What are the major points? Is there a -- I always call it a crescendo in the story. Is there a call to action? Is there a turning point? And so that helps me to solve the problem, right, of the performance aspect of things. But also I can use that same technique to solve problems with, let's say my interface doesn't work or I'm not hearing anything in my headphones. What can I do to troubleshoot this problem. Erikka: I mean, that's basically what storytelling, usually it has that type of arc. The story, the script itself is laying out a problem, sort of, oh, here's the solution, even talking about products. And it's like, if you understand that arc of problem solving, it's gonna help you vocally perform that way to here's the problem. Here's the solution. Yeah. Anne: Yeah. What's so interesting is you can hear that in the voice. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Right? Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: Here's a problem. But yet now I'm discovering a solution and yes, the solution. So you can kind of hear the emotion and how I've evolved from the problem into oh, a solution. And that's so interesting that it's really cool way to tell the story and evolve, problem solving and voiceover. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. It's more intertwined than you think, that creative and technical side. Anne: I like that. I like that. So what sort of things can you think of would help us to explore let's say the other side of our brain that maybe we wanna work on and develop? Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Any tips or tricks you got? Erikka: 'Cause I guess, yeah, that could go either way. There are people that might be, and I know this was a problem for me starting out, is that I always kind of had some creativity in me, but I would default to technical so quickly because it was analytical. Is this right? You know, are my levels good? Is this, am I peaking, you know, like kind of getting, when am I reading all the word right? And that's when we get read-y, right? Anne: Absolutely. Erikka: Like, you know, Dave Fennoy always talks about the read-y read -- Anne: That's right. And that's when you get too technical about it. Erikka: That's when we're too technical. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Erikka: So there are some people that might be too far on the analytical side and need to know, kind of get some of that creative going. So it's both. I think some of those tools that you can use is obviously the brain is all about repetition. It really is. So the more that you can learn about this stuff from different sources and just doing it on a regular basis, you can't do voiceover once a week and expect to get to a performance level of being a pro. Anne: Yeah. I love that you said that. Erikka: You can't, because you have to have that repetition and then your brain kind of starts to absorb it and do it on autopilot. I think that's the great ways is to exercise both of those sides on a regular basis, just like muscles. Anne: Yep. It's a muscle and yeah. I'm always telling my students it's, you know, with 10,000 hours, Malcolm Gladwell said that. Erikka: Oh yeah, that's right. Anne: 10,000 hours. Now you don't have to spend 10,000 hours coaching. But I do believe you need to spend 10,000 hours working on your business, working on your performance. And as you were mentioning it, it's definitely a muscle because how are you going to perform if you've not experienced telling the story or experience the process of -- here's the script, let's break it down, let's analyze it, let's find out where are the main points? What's the story here? What's the backbone of the story? So many times we're so in a rush to go in and what happens when you do that, you end up reading the story. And you don't wanna read the story. You wanna tell the story and be in the story to make it the most believable and most natural. So I think stepping through a process, similar to how you would problem solve in terms of breaking down the script -- and that doesn't have to take a long time. I have a lot of people that will ask me -- 'cause I do tons of long format narration. And they're like, well, do you mark up your script? And I'm like, no, because I've got my brain working faster than my mouth right now. Because I'm reading ahead a little bit more to understand the story. And plus I'm always reading the script fully once at a, a quick pace usually. So I get the words outta my mouth. I understand where I need to breathe. And it helps me to grab the context of it. And I'll tell you what, if I can get that bionic app to put my scripts in. I think that would just really accelerate even more. Erikka: That could really be a game changer. And the thing is like, when you do that initial sort of read and understanding and connecting with the story, if you can understand the context and maybe connect it to something that is real to you, and if you can make that connection quick, it's gonna make it easier for you to get through the script. Even if they're not your words, you can put it in the context of, oh, this did happen to me. This is how I felt. And you voiced in the way that you felt in that scenario. Anne: Right. Erikka: It's gonna make your performance better. Anne: Absolutely. There has to be that element of you that comes into that story. And how many times do we hear that when we first enter into the industry? Oh, you know, bring you to the party and we need to hear you. We need, yeah. I'll say it 'til the cows come home. It is not about the voice that you think they want to hear. It's really about you and how you tell the story and your unique perspective, and your unique perspective means what's the nuance of emotion? What's the point of view in the story? Are you in the story? Are you excited by the story? Are you sad? Are you solving a problem? What is it that you're doing? And so doing that, those steps of problem solving will help you, I think, to enhance the creative performance aspect as well. Erikka: Yes, yes. That's what makes us actors and not just voice. Not just talkers. Anne: Yeah. And I have so many students who say, well, I'm not creative at all. They come from a tech world and I'm like, oh yes, you are. Erikka: Yes, you are. Anne: And let me tell you how, because , for me, that's all it was, it was about that. Erikka: Well, how do you think we got all this technology? Somebody was pretty creative to figure out that we could be on opposite sides of the country and be able to talk to each other. Anne: God. I know, you know, I say that all the time. Like I would marry the Internet if I could, I would marry the internet. It is one of the most wonderful developments. And back in the day, again, I'm aging myself, back in the day when the Internet was a little more than DARPANET, I got so excited about the fact that we could communicate through the ethers and do really cool things on the Internet. And it's just amazing how it can bring people together, technology. And that's, I think where my love of technology comes from, and I'm not afraid of it because I kind of wanna be on the edge of it. I wanna learn new things. I wanna see how it can continue to connect me with people. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. And it is definitely also a creative endeavor to imagine what's not already there. I mean, that's really what technology does, and then you just make it. So you can develop the creative side and you can develop the tech side. You can, you can do it. Anne: And let's talk not just tech, but I mean, I guess I'm considering tech, like that's the other 50% of your brain needs to be tech. But in reality, I think that's synonymous with, it can also be your accounting brain. Erikka: Yes. Anne: You know, because we've gotta send invoices and we have to be marketers. And so that's the other 50% as well. We have to sell ourselves because we're not gonna be able to make money in the industry if people don't know about us. So somehow we've gotta be out there and get creative and market. And that's where the creative and again, tech will come into play because maybe you're gonna do an email campaign. Maybe you're gonna do social media. How are you gonna get in front of these people? And we're gonna have an episode in the future, I know this, Erikka, about SEO and about -- Erikka: Oh yeah, we have to. Anne: -- how you can cut through the noise of the Internet. Because while I love the Internet over the years, it's gotten really popular. Erikka: Yeah. There's, there's a few people on there, you know? Anne: Yeah. Back in the day I remember going, oh, we'll never try to sell things on the computer. It's free. It's all about sharing research and education. And the funny thing is, is boy, did that not turn out the way I expected. Erikka: Yeah. For sure. I'm so glad you said that though. Because really when we talk about, you know, left brain, right brain, it's really more like creative versus analytical. It's not just tech. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Erikka: Because that business aspect is definitely leans more -- I think it's actually somewhat centered 'cause there is an element of creativity in business. Anne: Agreed. Erikka: But you've got to be able to, like you said, either do your accounting or at least have a, somewhat of an understanding enough to be able to outsource it. Anne: Well and to be able to, yeah, to be able to direct your accountant on what you need done, right? That's it. Erikka: Yep. Yep. And then there's the creativity of being able to direct maybe your graphic designer for your website, you know, how do you wanna be branded? Anne: Yeah. I think, you know that better than anybody; you're a project manager. Right? Erikka: Yeah. Anne: So you need to understand the processes that are happening in order to direct it. And as an entrepreneur of your own voiceover business, we need to be able to direct the people that we outsource. Like I need to be able to direct my accountant on, okay. I need to know, you know, what's my profit and loss. What am I spending my money on? And that sort of thing. So I need to be able to log into my accounting system to do that. And I'm gonna bring up a point that I think, Erikka, you can relate to: web hosting and websites. So many people are scared of their websites. And for the longest time, I think if you didn't know how to write HTML or you didn't know how to launch a website or you didn't understand anything about it, website developers would hold you hostage. And I'm like, you need to know how to get into your website, make sure your website is being backed up. Make sure that you have copies of maybe a downloaded backup of it on your computer. And then if you need to change something, at least know how to log into your hosting provider and make a change, right? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Or assign -- change the password to allow to assign it to somebody else. Anne: There you go. That's it. Yeah. Erikka: Yeah. Totally agree. Just you're just preaching the gospel here, Anne. I'm just here, you know, I'm just here in the pew. . Anne: That's important. I can't tell you how many people just, I think the website just, it's one of those things that is beyond most people's brains or imaginations because they've never experienced it or never had to. But now I think it's important that everything that is a aspect of your business, right, write down. All right. Where did you buy your domain name? Who are you hosting? You have to know these things. Erikka: When's it up for renewal? Is it on auto renewal? Anne: Right? Exactly. Erikka: So you don't lose it. Anne: Oh my gosh. Can I tell you I have an Excel spreadsheet of all my subscriptions because I lose tracks so easily. Erikka: Were we born from the same person? Anne: I think we were. Erikka: Because my Google sheets are like shameful because yeah. , I've got one for medical. I've got one for personal. I've got one for business. Yeah. And I track my subscriptions too. Anne: You have to track your subscriptions. That's just good business. Right? Being a good business owner because you have to know your outgoing expenses as much as your incoming. Erikka: Yes. And your personal ones too. Anne: Incoming. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Not just the business ones because the personal, like that's still your, your personal finance, it's still your money. So yeah. Track those, make sure Hulu didn't go up on you or Netflix or whatever streaming service, you know, so that, you know how much is coming out. Anne: My God. They do that. They sneak it on you. Erikka: They, you have like one of those home warranties and you don't need it anymore. Like they won't remind you, hey, you haven't used this. Do you wanna cancel your subscription? Like, no, , they're not, you know? So you need to make sure that you're using things that you're paying for. Anne: Yes. Amen. Amen to that. So 50-50 brains, BOSSes, I think we need to develop whatever side that maybe you're feeling weak in. Educate. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: I think education is so important. Erikka: And again, don't be afraid to outsource. You don't have to be an expert in this stuff. Anne: Right. Erikka: You don't have to feel like you gotta know everything about tech and business and accounting. There are people that nerd out on this stuff and do it in their sleep. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Erikka: Hire them, but just have a foundational understanding of what's going on. Anne: That's very, very important. And I think overall it'll help you run your business much, much, better, much smoother. And again, it will take away a lot of the fear of, oh my gosh, I don't know anything about that. So I can't start my business or I can't continue my business or I gotta hire someone, but I don't know anything. I don't know who to hire. I think education is key to being able to understand enough about both sides to progress and be a success. Oh right. My goodness. I could talk all day about that. Erikka: Oh man, time flies when you're having fun. Anne: It sure does. BOSSes. If you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart, if you've ever wanted to do more to help them, you absolutely can. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how you can make a difference with your voice. And a big shout-out to ipDTL, our sponsor. Gosh, I love ipDTL. I can't even, I'm a tech geek. Love, love, love ipDTL, because again, it's that 50-50 part of my brain that says not only can I technically speak to somebody across the world, but we can also connect and engage and have the creative aspect of our part come together through the technology, so find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Erikka: Bye, BOSSes. Anne: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Let's talk balance! What goes into creating a work-life system that honors and prioritizes all these hats we wear? Anne and special guest co-host Erikka J share their own methods for balancing the various elements of a successful voiceover business, and discuss how to maximize productivity using techniques that keep the whole self in focus. Stay tuned for great conversations about time management, rest and relaxation, technology tools, and so much more. Explore focus skills, and learn how balancing your personal life and work life can be the key to being the best #VOBOSS you can be… MORE: https://www.voboss.com/balance >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to start a brand new series with special guest co-host Erikka J. Woohoo! Erikka: Hey! Anne: Hey Erikka. Well, for those of you that don't know Erikka, she is a singer-songwriter and award-winning voice actor. She's voiced commercials, narrations, political campaigns, for top brands such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, IBM, Discover, Black Lives Matter, and many more. She's also a product and project management professional with 15 years experience in various sectors, including state and federal government, contracting, eCommerce, software development, and automotive. Woo Erikka. That's a list. Wow. You do an awful lot. Erikka: I forgot most of that. Thanks for the reminder. Anne: And not only that you just came back from like an extensive learning experience, extraordinaire at one of the JMC Euro retreats in Barcelona. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. That was awesome. Anne: You're doing it all. It's kind of crazy. I think, uh, how do you do it? How do you achieve a balance with all of that? Because it just seems like, you know, you and I both, I run multiple brands, and it's something that we deal with, I think, on a daily basis. I think it would be a great topic for today's episode to talk about how we can achieve balance in our VO careers. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: Or lives, not just VO careers, right? Erikka: Right. Anne: Take that back. Erikka: Right. For sure. Like the whole life 'cause family too. Anne: That's right. Erikka: How about that? Anne: That's right. Erikka: Um, but key number one, the number one tool is coffee. Both: Anne: Oh my God. And I literally, before we came on, I filled my cup to the max. So yeah, I've got coffee, but don't forget, BOSSes, also have that big old jug of water in your studio. Erikka: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Anne: Because I use that as a chaser so my vocal cords don't dry up, but yes, coffee. Erikka: I do both for sure. Not too much coffee. Just that one cup for me to get going in the morning. And if you wanna lay off that, green tea is a good alternate. You know? Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Erikka: It has caffeine. Anne: Absolutely. Erika: But yeah. You know, prioritization is a huge piece of how I handle all that. I don't get to every audition I want to sometimes, you know? Anne: Well, yeah. I remember that being my biggest hindrance, I think in progressing in my voiceover career back when I first started, because I had a very demanding tech job, and it pretty much took like all hours of the daytime for me. It wasn't just nine to five. I mean, a lot of times I was even working overtime, and I don't know if that's true with you, but it was hard for me to get to those auditions on time. Erikka: Yeah. So thank goodness I don't really have the overtime thing. Being able to work full-time from home kind of helps with that balance. So I know a lot of different places are offering that now, or maybe even just, you know, once or twice a week. So that helps a lot. But man, it is definitely a prioritization game, and to be able to accept and give yourself grace that you just can't do everything. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: So you do what's most important. Anne: Well, I think one thing that has changed well since the pandemic, right, the fact that you can potentially work from home, if that's a possibility, unless you work for Apple, right, at this point because Erikka: Right. Anne: Yeah. That's not gonna be a possibility, I don't think, but interestingly enough, our world has changed since the pandemic with people working from home and lots of companies offering their employees the ability to at least work remotely a portion of the time, or even sometimes forever. I know my husband can now work from home forever, and I actually really love that. I love having him home. I think he loves not having to sit in the commute for how many hours, which actually depending on how you use that time, I used to always listen to podcasts when I was sitting in traffic to try to make my time valuable in traffic. But yeah, it's so different now. So thankfully, if you work from home, you might be able to squeeze in and audition here or there. Erikka: Yeah. You know, I think corporations have increasingly become more aware of the benefits of balance to the corporate business. So people understanding that if I don't have to spend two hours of my day in traffic, maybe I'm more refreshed. Maybe I'm willing to spend an extra hour at work, getting that report done because I don't sit in traffic to do it. I can do a load of laundry or pick my kids up and come back and do a meeting. So I think that that's why a lot of them are increasingly okay with some remote work. Anne: And also there were some studies that were done that said that people were more productive at their home. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: And I think for us as voice talent, because we primarily work from home anyways, if we're full-time, it makes all that much more difference to have that in-person kind of contact, which we get at conferences. But for the people who work full time, such as yourself and are voice actors and successful ones, not even just, oh, you're just starting out -- no, you're a very successful voice actor, not only finding time for auditions and work, but also escaping for a week or two to go to conferences and further your education. How are you working that with your job? I mean, is that something you have to beg for or I remember I was used to beg for time off. Erikka: Well, couple things. I think that just honestly, from a personality perspective, I'm not one that needs to be in the office and get the human interaction. I am a true textbook ambivert. I get my extrovert activities in, and I'll run to my bubble and you won't even know it. Like, you'll be like, where'd Erikka go? Like I needed to go recharge. So I don't necessarily need that, that touch. I get plenty just by doing live sessions and talking to people and the people in my home, and I'm good. But because a lot of my job is prioritization at work as a product owner, like I'm literally prioritizing work for my software developers, I just kind of make sure that I have everything done and ready to go if I know I'm gonna be out. And thank goodness I work for a wonderful company that has a great, flexible, unlimited PTO policy. So as long as your manager approves it and you know, your work is done, they're like, go ahead and take your time off and take care of yourself because that -- know that rested employees or employees that are able to live their lives and not have it all be about work are more productive and produce better work. Anne: Absolutely. And it really enables the creative aspect, I think of the profession to really shine if you have that time, that downtime. And I have to say that I do like the companies that enable the unlimited PTO. If you've got your work done, I know my husband has that same thing, and it's really, really made a difference. When I was working full time, it was one of those professions where I couldn't really work from home. And so it really was kind of prohibitive for me to do voiceover during the day, while I was at the job. But I think we have so many more opportunities these days, especially if you work in the tech sector. Right? And you don't necessarily have to be out in the field fixing computers or anything, but if you work and you have remote capabilities and so -- remote software capabilities and you know, there's Zoom. Thank God for Zoom and all the technological capabilities that help us to at least simulate a meeting with another person and see their faces, which I think is great. But yeah, I think starting out now in VO and working a full-time job, I think is a little bit easier. Erikka: Oh, absolutely. Anne: Yeah. Erikka: And like you said, there's more opportunities for remote work. It's, you know, more accepted and not as taboo and seen as, oh, you're gonna kind of, you know, screw up or at home and just not really do your work. That's not really the thought anymore. And even with voiceover has become increasingly remote. You know, it's not so much that you have to go into the studio for every single session or even for auditions. It's been more accepted that there's a lot of technology available where and, you know, knowledge where people can actually have broadcast quality studios from home. So I think on both sides of it, it makes it easier now that technology has advanced. Anne: And now let me ask you a question in regards to your , it's not even just a double life 'cause you do so many things. I feel like it's a triple, quadruple, like whatever kind of a life. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: Now do you tell your employer about the fact that you are a voiceover artist as well? And are you transparent with that? Or how does that work for you? Erikka: I'm so glad you asked that question because it was a little bit of a journey for me. So before I was really kind of doing voiceover to the magnitude I am now, it was more so music. And you know, I was writing at night and doing gigs on the weekends, and I was working for the government at the time. And you know, that just didn't really quite mix. And I wasn't really keeping it a secret, but I didn't broadcast it either. And the more I got uncomfortable with that, because I felt like I was hiding a piece of myself, I started to talk about it more. And then when I got this new job in the private sector, I was kind of really focused on corporate for a while and then pandemic hit. And you know, I started to say, you know what, this is me as a whole person. And I have a corporation that really values the whole person. And there are things that I learn in voiceover that help make me more creative at work. And it turns out I've actually done a couple of jobs for my company. Actually, they had a commercial that they ran here locally in Atlanta to try to get people to apply, you know, a lot of employment campaigns happening. So I was able to use that experience of literally the script was, we have multitudes and you know, people do all these other things. The visuals are showing people, doing all these other things outside of work. And I was like, that's me too. So I stopped hiding, and I actually have it on my LinkedIn. My headline is both of my titles. Anne: I love that. Erikka: And I love it. And I know that it's not comfortable for everybody, and not all corporations are quite that there yet, but I encourage some people to consider that. There was someone I was talking to and she's a doctor, and she had two separate profiles for her medical work and for her narration work. And I'm like, oh my goodness, do you know how much medical narration work you could get? Because you have the credibility of being a doctor. Anne: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Erikka: I say combine them if you can. Anne: Yeah. And be as transparent if you can. You know what's nice I think about voiceover is I feel like if there's a conflict of interest, , there's not high risk of that happening in your job, because there's really nothing else like voiceover. And, and I feel like, you know, unless of course maybe you're voicing a campaign for a competing company. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: That might be where some of the conflict of interest is, but in terms of actually having another career and being able to be transparent with your employer, I think that today it's even better than ever to have both. Right? You can have it all. Erikka: Absolutely. And I'm so glad you said that because that is one thing I did when I first got a job and they reached out to me, and it was actually my company as a whole separate media or creative agency, and they reached out to me for a job, they found me on 123. And I was like, whoa, I wanna make sure this isn't a problem. And I did reach out to our ethics and legal department, and they cleared it. They said, this is fine. Anne: Oh, that's great. Erikka: I think that's a great point to make sure you're not doing conflicts of interest. You don't wanna voice for, you know, a competitor and be the voice of. . Anne: Well, exactly. Erikka: That's probably not a good idea. So there are some considerations, but like you said, for the most part, it's pretty safe. Anne: Now, when you did your voiceover for your company, they did pay you, correct? Erikka: Yes. Anne: Separate? Erikka: They did. Anne: Yeah, okay. That's good. That's excellent. Now, was that something that you had to request? Because that's something I know a lot of people -- well, like myself and it was so long ago, it was just kinda like, oh yeah, you'll do those recordings for us. Right? You know? And it's part of your job, as part of your standard job. And, and at the time I don't think I was confident enough to like really stand up and say, hey, this is something that I get paid for. I think I used it as kind of a, a learning and a stepping stone as like here, because I hadn't really started working yet, but I wanted to. And I had been training. And so the timing for me was, oh, okay. This will be a good learning opportunity for me to voice some spots for the company and no, they're not gonna pay me, but that's okay because I'm on the job, then let me do it. And I'll consider this a learning on the job thing. Erikka: Yeah. I think that depends. So like in my case it was okay because it was actually a creative agency. It wasn't the company itself and they were hiring me. So it was fine for them paying me -- Anne: Okay. Erikka: -- you know, monetarily, but if a company that you're working for, and they're coming to you directly to, you know, voice a commercial that's going to put you in conflict and help sell something, I might not wanna do that, 'cause if you're without extra compensation, 'cause that takes you outta the running for other things. Anne: Sure. Erikka: But if it's like, you know, an e-learning or an explainer and it's not gonna take a lot of, and like it's, you're on the clock anyway, and you do kind of need the practice, I think that can be great. It's not necessarily a bad thing if it doesn't put you in conflict, but I think that's sort of a case by case, you know, see what feels right to you. I, I have heard of some people getting taken advantage, which I don't think is right. Anne: Yeah. I agree there. Yeah, I think that also, if it isn't a conflict of interest, I think it, it is something that you're talking about. I think it's also something that if we've not thrown the topic of you are worth it enough around in the industry, let's do it again. Right? You are worth getting paid. And I think that if you are transparent and your company finds that there's no real, you know, conflict of interest, you should mention, you know, if they ask you to do something for them, I think that you should absolutely stand up and, and say, yeah, absolutely. And will this be, you know -- for me, I was like, well, will there be an additional check for this? Or will there be additional money being allocated for this job? Because I would be happy to provide you with a quote. Erikka: Yeah. And the thing is that comes into that is it's not just your time. And it's really easy to just say, oh, we are just talking into a microphone, but who bought that microphone? Who bought the interface? Anne: Exactly. Erikka: Who bought the computer? Who paid for the training so that you had to do this in 30 minutes or whatever? You have a business; you have a media business. You're not just talking into a microphone, and you've invested in that. So they need to pay for part of that. Absolutely. Anne: So let me ask you a question, now, how are you prioritizing hours in your day? Is it possible for you to actually say, oh, here's I, I have an hour here that I can do auditions depending on the day, the schedule, the meetings? How do you organize your day with a full-time job and then working in full-time voiceover? Erikka: Yeah. So I have a lot of tools that I use, some new-school, some old. You know, I use things like ever node and -- Anne: Yep, yep. Erikka: Task List, Google Tasks and things like that. But I also, honestly, I'm really good about just paper and pencil, and I know that's old and I'm like an elder millennial and I still use it, but I do to-do lists. I, I use the calendar on my phone. Anne: me too. I love my calendar. Erikka: I love it. So it's like if I have auditions, and I know that they're coming in, you know, they're probably coming in from the west coast later in the day, I might try to record them that night if I have the energy for it. And maybe I'll edit them in the morning before my workday so that I can hear it again and see if I need to make adjustments. So I'll try to do that. I really try to get very efficient with my audition process and -- Anne: Yeah, that's key. Erikka: That is key. So that you're not spending 30 minutes on one audition. You don't have time for it. Anne: Gosh, yes. So here's just a little diversion into that world. And as a matter of fact, I've, I've talked to so many people that have been in the business for years, and auditioning is kind of a skill. It's like a muscle. And I think the more that you do it, the better you get at it. And also I think the more you realize that your first few takes are usually the ones that are the best, and it's not number 15 or 16 when you've rethought it or gone for a walk and come back and listened and said, oh God, no, it's horrible. Let me start again. Really, to be efficient, that I think is key to keeping a balance, right, to your work lives, you know, in multiple occupations. So don't spend an exorbitant amount of time on your auditions and just -- I always limit myself to three, takes three takes, done, send it and forget it. Erikka: Yep. Yep. And what I'll do too is like, if I it's a red flag to me, if I've been on something for more than 10, maybe 15 minutes, if it's a little longer, and I've have recorded auditions and not sent them, 'cause I was like, you know what? This just doesn't even feel right. This one isn't for me. Anne: I love that you said that because I have done that too. I always go by my gut instinct. And I feel that even if after the three takes, I'm not feeling it, I'm not gonna send it in. 'Cause you're right. Again, we are storytellers and we have to be able to envision the scene. We have to be in the scene to be real, to be authentic. And it has to feel right I think in order to really, I don't know, work. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. That's part of the balance. And I think a lot of times we know, even before we get in the booth. Like I'll get that email and I'll get that gut. Like, Ooh, I can't wait to read this. You know? And then you get the one where it's like eeeehhh. Anne: Well, I think it's important to note though that when you read through it the first time, and just because you're efficient at auditioning doesn't mean that you're not reading through and doing a little bit of analysis now in the beginning. Because in order to know, if you wanna tell the story, you kind of have to know the story. So taking a look at that script and maybe doing a Google here and there for the company or the brand, if it's known, absolutely can help you. And it can speed up the process. Gosh, what did we do before the Internet, right, when we got an audition and we wanted to find out more about the product, or I'd never heard about the product and so oh, okay. I'm just gonna read these words. Erikka: I bow to the OGs that had to do that before me, 'cause I never had to, and I don't know what I would've done. Anne: Yeah. Just reading the words doesn't cut it these days. It just, it never really cut it before either, I don't think, but it really has to be something that organically comes from you. And to get to that position and to understand the story, you've gotta know a little bit about the story, and that takes more than a minute. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad you said that. Efficient does not mean fast. They are not synonyms. It just means that you have a process down. You know, maybe you are speed reading, you know, you're not necessarily like really digesting and sitting with it for 30 minutes, but you are getting an idea of what the story is, how you might connect with it. And then sometimes I do come in the booth and cold read because for me it, sometimes it's more organic as someone who, who is literally anxious. Like I, I have anxiety and I get in my head and sometimes the cold read ends up being the best one. Anne: But a cold read doesn't always mean that you're not familiar with the words, either -- Erikka: The story. Anne: -- because there's a certain method to speed reading. And actually I just was reading about something called bionic reading the other day. Erikka: Yes. I read that too. Anne: Yes. Very interesting. Where you get certain letters highlighted in the words, because it says your brain -- Erikka: Brain fills them in for you. Anne: Yeah. Your brain is faster than your eyes. So I honestly am looking for that app so that I can put all of my scripts into it because I actually saw it and it worked for me that I was able to process the words faster and comprehend them. That's the biggest thing I think we need is comprehension. And if you can do that faster and more efficient, that's gonna again help you with the balance of managing everything that you have to do in any given day. So we've got your full time job, right? You've got your pretty much full time voiceover, I would say. And then now what else are you struggling with? Or we've got life actually. Right? We've gotta have that time, that downtime so that again, like we were talking about before, where we can refresh and reset. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. I have this mantra when I was doing more so music, it was, I had these t-shirts that was like natural born hustler and that's still kind of my thing. I'm definitely of a strong work ethic. I love working, but as I've gotten older and had more things on my plate and been kind of forced into it, that has evolved into now that rest is part of the work. That's my mantra. Anne: You're right. Yeah. Rest is part of the work. I like that. Erikka: Because if you are not rested, you are not bringing your best self to that script. You are not bringing your best self to the booth, and you're not bringing your best self to yourself or your family. Anne: Agreed. Erikka: You've got to recharge. You can't keep using your phone. It's gonna die on you. you're no different. Anne: I love that. And I'll tell you, I was that person back in the day. I remember now I'm like, I feel like here I am, I'm old, but I used to be able to survive on four or five hours of sleep at night. I can't do that anymore. I need to rest and recharge. And my brain has to shut off. That I think is the most energetic part of me is my brain, all the time going. And that also kind of disrupts my sleep once in a while. Erikka: Well, yeah, I definitely have had issues with, with sleep. And the thing is that I had to learn that even being creative and balanced in all aspects of your life, even rest, it doesn't have to be the eight hours of sleep at night. I'm not one that can do the eight hours. Usually like a good night of rest for me is seven. But like I might catch a 15-minute power nap. I have a friend that lives by power naps and he's right. Like there are sleep cycles and you can research this. If you sleep in intervals of like, I think it's like 15, 30, 45 or an hour and a half, like that can give you an, like a boost literally. Where if you sleep, if an have an hour, like you interrupt a sleep cycle and it's not as efficient as if you had slept for 45 minutes, something like that. Anne: Sure. Erikka: And if you get creative about how you're resting, even not sleeping, if there's a way to just rest your brain, like silence, meditating, all those things count. Anne: Can I just say, as I've gotten older, a woman of a certain age, my sleep patterns have changed, where all of a sudden I'm up in the middle of the night for an hour or two. Erikka: Me too. Me too. Anne: So first of all, I'm so thankful and grateful that I have voiceover because I'm not paranoid about getting up, shower, dressed and out the door and fighting the traffic. I don't feel that pressure. So if I'm up for an hour or two in the middle of the night, I don't stress about it. I just am like, okay, that's my sleep pattern. That's just the way it is. If I'm not sleepy, I'm gonna, I don't know. I'm gonna, I don't know, watch some TV until I fall asleep. And so for me, I'm not stressing about the fact that I'm not sleeping and it's funny 'cause my doctor she's like, okay, okay. So I know you're probably stressed out that you have an irregular sleep pattern. I'm like actually no, I'm really fine with it. And hopefully it's the same with you because you have to maybe report to work at a certain time. But if you have flex hours, I mean, that's just an amazing thing that we can just not have to stress about that lack of sleep during the middle of the night or just different sleep patterns. One of my assistants, literally she works during the night and sleeps during the day. So. Erikka: Yeah. You have to learn yourself. Like that's the key to balance too is knowing what really works for you. Like I know me, even if I don't sleep well at night, I'm gonna probably be up before 8:00. My circadian rhythm just does not let me sleep late unless I am like really sick. If I'm in bed at 10:00, you need to check on me. Anne: Yep. Yep. Erikka: Because something is wrong. Anne: Same here. Same here. Erikka: So it's just about knowing, like if you're a night owl and you know that you're most creative and work well at night, then find work, whether that's voiceover or even corporate work, that's gonna match that. So that you can be your best self. Anne: Now, do you have any other, when you wanna come down and you wanna just refresh your creative, do you have any particular things that you do? Do you meditate? Do you exercise? Erikka: Yeah. So, I don't exercise as much as I used to or as much as I want to or should. Anne: Yeah, I know. I think, I think, I think we all go through that. Although I've come back to this point where I'm doing like little power bursts of exercise, because I have to. Like, we're talking like literally five minutes at a time. No, if I'm in between, let's say, students or in between a gig and I get outta my studio. I'm gonna do like my little squats. My arm movements, gonna grab a couple of weights and I'm gonna do like a power set for maybe five minutes. And I find that that really helps me a lot during the day. I feel much stronger now because before I was just sitting on my butt, and it was not doing me any good for sure. Erikka: For me, I had this little sticky note I wrote for myself 'cause I'm a sticky note-aholic and I called it 60 seconds of sunshine. So if I have sessions and meetings and all this stuff going on, I can give myself 60 seconds of sunshine. It gives me the fresh air to reset. It gives literally -- the sun is vitamin D and all these things and you know, it just kind of resets you. I would do that even when I was in the office, like I would just go outside for a minute. Even if I don't have time to really walk or do anything. Just finding little bursts, little things that you can do throughout the day to reset your brain. It does help. Anne: Yeah. I agree, that 60 seconds of sunshine, I like that. I think I'm gonna put that um, a sticky note on mine. That, and I love to just go and take a break and pet the fur babies. Erikka: Yes, oh my goodness. Anne: 'Cause that just releases my stress unbelievably well. Erikka: Absolutely, they're -- because they don't care about anything. They just want love and food and sleep. . Anne: That's it love, food, and sleep. Erikka: Love, food, and sleep. Don't we all just want love, food, and sleep at the end of the day? Anne: It's so true. Really. And that love includes ourself, right? And taking care of ourself and trying to achieve that balance -- where I know myself, I have fallen into this and anybody that knows me again, I am a little bit of a workaholic. And it's really become so important with me because I will say I've, I've encountered some health issues of late that have forced me to say, whoa, Anne. You are sitting too much. You're working too much and you need to really stop and take a look at -- now, I think it's one thing about me. I've always been super, uber focused. I mean, I play hard and I work hard. So I just got too many years during the pandemic of working way too hard and not necessarily playing. So I know myself, the balance has had to come back into play major, especially the older you get. I don't wanna sound like a, an old broken record, but I'll tell you what, it's so much more important as you age. That's that's all I can say. Erikka: You telling -- likewise, I told you, the natural born hustler. I still have some of those hats and shirts. People are wearing them. Like I was, I love working. I got that from my dad. Anne: Me too, me too. Erikka: It's true workaholic. Anne: And my dad too. Erikka: Yeah. However, like you said, especially as you get a little older and you start doing more things, and your body's going to tell you to sit down, and you don't do it voluntarily. It will do it for you. And I just, I'd rather make the choice. Anne: Absolutely, absolutely. So I think balance. So then if you had to sum it up, if we're working towards better balance in our lives with our careers and lives, what would be your recommendations? Erikka: Find something every day that gives you joy, because I think joy is something that is a super fuel. Anne: Super balancer. Erikka: Yeah. And if you have some -- I mean it could be something tiny. I mean, lately I've been more on like iced coffee. I don't know why, it's just been, maybe it's getting hotter. I'm usually like I want hot all year long, but the coffee is what gives you the joy in the first thing in the morning, it makes it help so much easier to cope with all the other things throughout the day and give you that balanced perspective of yes, maybe this thing is irritating me or hard right now, but I'm gonna be able to have coffee again tomorrow. Or, you know, whatever it is that brings you, that sort of sense of balance in your life. Prioritization is another huge one. You can't do it all. And if you're workaholics like me and Anne and you wanna do everything -- Anne: You think you can. Erikka: You think you can -- Anne: I found an app. Well, it's not even an app. You can go right online. It's called the Pomodoro technique. So literally I think it was developed and I don't know the name of the guy. Maybe it was Richard Pomodoro, but anyways, his mother had one of those old timers that was shaped like a tomato. And so he was a writer, and he was struggling to keep his focus. And so he decided that he would set the timer and focus only on his writing for a set number of time. So it turns out that 25 minutes was key for him. You do whatever you need to do for 25 minutes. And then for five minutes you take a break ,and then you come back. And you do it again. And you do four cycles of the 25 minutes focusing. And I'll tell you what. I started using it for my own writing. 'cause I write blogs, and I find, I love to write, but write writing takes me forever. And I get very distracted and I'm like, oh, I just got an email. Oops, just got a text. And so I literally this simple thing it's pomodor.app. I think you go there and it's a big timer on a webpage. You click on it to set it to 25 minutes and it does a little timer in your ear when it's all done. So I wear my headphones all day. And so it's literally click that 25 minutes and focus only on that one tab that I'm in or that application that I'm in. And it's really helped me. I have to say. Erikka: That is really a key to balance too, because one of the red flags that you're out of balance is burnout. When you're feeling burned out. And if you kind of iterate that way for yourself and make sure that you're setting aside some time for rest, then you can prevent yourself from burning out. There's a physical exercise sort of thing that approaches it that way called Tabata training where you work out for like four -- Anne: Oh yes, absolutely. Erikka: You work out for a few minutes and you have rest built into the routine. So that's awesome for your brain too. Anne: Absolutely. That's my husband, did Tatabatas in his spin class. Erikka: Yeah. It works. Anne: Exactly. You just, you give it your all for a few minutes, and then you rest and go back and do it again. So yeah. Pomodor, Pomodor technique. Yeah. BOSSes. We all need more balance, and I'm just so excited, Erikka, to have you for this new series. Really our theme is gonna be about balance throughout your career. And we're gonna be talking about all different things and how we can hopefully overall achieve balance and more success in life and in our career. Erikka: So let's do it, balance, baby. Anne: Yeah. So BOSSes, I want you to have a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference and give back to the communities that give to you. If you wanna find out more, visit our newest sponsor, 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. You can make a huge difference for just a small, quarterly contribution. And I'd like to give a huge shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS like Erikka J and myself. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing weekend. We'll see you next week. Erikka: See you. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

A busy voice actor spends a lot of time in the booth. You're sitting down to edit, sending out auditions, and reaching out to clients, but how are you prioritizing your physical & mental health throughout the work day? Anne & Pilar have the tips and tricks to keep your body strong & your mind sound. From taking breaks throughout the day to stretch, keeping up with your fur babies, and shaking off the stress (literally), you can tackle the day with ease like a #VOBOSS. >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Transcript Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited to bring back to the show Pilar Uribe, my very, very special guest cohost. Pilar. Woo-hoo! How are you? Pilar: I'm doing great, Anne. How are you? Anne: I'm amazing. Thank you. Pilar: Anne. Anne: What? Pilar: Anne. Guess what I'm wearing? Guess what I'm wearing today? Anne: Oh my, okay. Um, Hmm. I'm not sure. What are you wearing, Pilar? Are you in the booth right now? Pilar: I am. I am at the booth. Anne: It's something that makes you feel good. Pilar: It does. It does. Because this morning I went walking. I did my 10,000 steps like I do every morning. Anne: Awesome, awesome. Pilar: And then I came home. I showered, I changed and I put on my voz t-shirt and it's really cool. Anne: Awesome! Pilar: I just got in the mail, and it's so much fun. Anne: I am so excited. Guys, yeah. So BOSSes out there, in case you didn't know, in honor of the most amazing Pilar Uribe, we have really cool swag in our BOSS studio store. So you can go to shop BOSS brand gear, and we have a whole line of really cool swag. We got t-shirts, we got mugs, we got accessories. We've got all sorts of things, and they're really, really awesome. I mean, I love that it's combination of your logo and some just amazing pieces of swag that you guys can get. Pilar: I'm really liking that little bag where you can like put your stuff in and carry it around. Anne: The accessory pouch. Pilar: I love it, like you can put anything in there. Anne: We have two different sayings, Pilar, and I'm going to have you say them because I cannot do the justice to the sayings that we have on shirts. Pilar: What? Anne: The voz. Pilar: Okay. Okay. I hear you. It's voz, la voz. Anne: La voz. Pilar: La voz. Anne: La voz. And what else? We've got another logo on the mugs, not just La Voz. Pilar: Right. The other one, right. That is you say Di algo, di algo. Say something. Anne: Di algo. Pilar: Di algo. Di algo, say something. Anne: Did I do that justice? I don't think I did. Pilar: You sure did, yes, absolutely, you did. Anne: Okay. Awesome. Pilar: Yes, completely, yeah. Anne: I love that little mug, man. I'm getting myself a little mug. It's like black with this -- and it's hot pink. I love the hot pink. Pilar: I know. And it gets really cute. Anne: Yeah. The shirts we have in like so many colors, it's amazing. Pilar: The shirt is really, it's really soft, BOSS voces, because you know how like they're sometimes, you get t-shirts, and they're just kind of, they're like sandpaper. They're rough. I don't why like, like sometimes how conference t-shirts are just like rough and you're like, why are you giving me a rough t-shirt? This is not that. This is not that. This is a very soft. Anne: This is quality swag, quality swag. Pilar: Yes. Anne: I love quality swag. Pilar: It's so much fun. And there's like a little notebook. I'm kind of eyeing the notebook now. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: I'm kind of thinking I might have to get the notebook and the short sleeve, 'cause I got the long sleeve actually, and the long sleeve is just so cozy. Anne: I'm loving it. Pilar: It's so cold out here -- Anne: I'm loving a short sleeve, and I'm a big v-neck girl. So yeah. Pilar: I know, I saw those. Anne: You guys, make sure you check out the really cool swag. And in addition to our Pilar-themed line of swag, we've also got some really cool Working Voice. What else? 100% BOSS. We've got VO BOSSy. We got some really cool sayings, some really cool logos on some really great merchandise. So make sure you go visit the shop under voboss.com and then shop BOSS brand gear. Pilar: Oo, I just saw something really cute. You've got a little BOSS, onesy. Anne: I do, I do. Pilar: Uh-oh, I might be, I might be shopping soon. You've got some BOSSy pants! Oh, get out of town. Anne: We do have BOSSy pants. Okay. So now that concludes our paid advertisement. Pilar: I'm kind of getting into this. Anne: Actually, we're just so excited about it. So guys, sorry about that. But Pilar, you said something earlier that I want to talk to you about, you said, you know, you've got your 10,000 steps in, you're making sure you're drinking your water, and you're doing all these things to contribute to your wellness, which I think is so important for BOSSes that are working regularly. Or even if you're not working regularly, your health, your wellness is so important and contributes so much to your performance and just your growth in your business. So I think we should have an episode talking about what we do for wellness and some tips and tricks and things that might help you guys in the booth. Pilar: I think it's really important to think about that because even before the pandemic, of course, my life really was about being in the booth because that's where I was most of the time when I wasn't at the radio station or out and about, I was in my booth doing audio books. And, and other things. Anne: And so long hours in the booth. Pilar: Yes. And so, and usually you're, I mean, I have it where I can sit and I can stand. It's not one or the other, but still you're seated. And a lot of the times you're not in the booth, you're editing or you're in the booth and you're doing it all at once. Anne: Oh my goodness, the editing, the editing. Pilar: The editing, which is like -- Anne: Or you're doing the accounting or the marketing and you're sitting, and I will say myself, a woman of a certain age, sitting no longer is like healthy. Not that sitting was ever healthy for me before, but I think my body bounced back if I sat, you know, because I've always worked in technology, but I've also been more mobile when I had to like go into work and walk around. And even though I sat a lot, I was actually a whole lot more active, and the pandemic came and oh my goodness. I was so busy thankfully. And I'm gratefully so busy, but I have been spending a lot of time sitting, and it has not done me any favors, that's for sure. Pilar: No. And, and the thing is, is that becomes cumulative when you stop moving around and working, not necessarily working out, as I say, in a gym, but working your body, working your muscles, moving, stretching. Your body eventually atrophies. So if you're not moving those muscles, you basically, just you kind of constrict. And we are in the business of expanding for as long as we can. So we, you want to stretch -- Anne: Expanding my body maybe after the pandemic. Pilar: Well, right. That's yes. I agree. I've, I have gained 10 pounds. Anne: Maybe not in a good way, but yeah, that, the pandemic has kind of wreaked havoc with my health a little bit, in a good way, because I've been working so much, but in a bad way, because again, I've been working so much. So I need to consciously take time out to make sure that I am taking care of my health, and I will say kudos and congrats to all those people out there, which I know a number of people who actually use the pandemic to get really into shape and take a challenge so that they can be the best that they can be. And I just unfortunately was not one of them. I kind of went the other way, kind of sitting a little too much and working a little too much. But I'm coming full circle because I've made a considerable investment in getting started and more conscious, being more conscious about my health, walking. Of course, the last time I walked, I tore my sciatica muscle. So that was a thing. So now I've, I've got a, you know, an elliptical machine, which is helping me to not necessarily destroy that muscle. I have a little less impact, although I'm not walking outside as much anymore, which I miss. But that's become an important part of me being healthy, not just physically, but mentally. Pilar: Yeah, and I think you really have to factor into your day some kind of movement and some kind of sustained movement, whether it's the elliptical or it's a stationary bike or it's walking, or if you're lucky enough to live in warm weather, swimming like in the summer months, but you have to keep the heart rate up in some way, shape or form. I do it by -- now, It's still pretty cold out here, but in the summer months, I hope to start swimming. And for now what I'm doing is I'm walking. And I make sure that I have 10,000 steps, that every day I walk my 10,000 steps. Anne: That's awesome, yep. Pilar: And so on an iPhone they have, and there are multiple apps. Anne: I know on my iPhone, I think it, by default, it has a whole health thing where it tracks you. And I just bought a new Apple Watch, which is really awesome. So it will track everything that I want and actually connect up to my smart fitness machine, my elliptical, it will track everything there, how many steps, how many calories I've burned, what my heart rate is and all of those wonderful, healthy things, which I want to know, or I might look at my watch at, when I'm having a stressful day, and then go, woo my heart rate. Make sure that it's, that it's good. But also every hour, it has that little hepatic tap that tells me I need to stand up, which is really important for me. And I like you, I have a standing desk. I'm assuming you have a standing desk, as you said you can do both. I have a standing desk. So if I'm not in my booth, I can actually raise it up and stand or I can sit, which has been a great, great help for me. Pilar: Yeah. Well I have the old stand and then bring the stool in. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And so I'm very lucky. A VO person actually fit it in for me in my booth. It's a movable arm, and it's really cool 'cause you can just, yeah, you can adjust the mic going up and down. So when I want to sit, I adjust the mic -- Anne: The boom arm. Yep. Pilar: Yeah, it's a boom arm. And I mean, I definitely one day, 'cause they're, they're kind of expensive, but the desks are really helpful for outside when I'm editing, because then I don't have to be standing and sitting. But whatever it is that you do, whatever it is that you decide to do, make sure that you do it for at least 20, 30 minutes a day, get out and about, move around if you can every hour, because you really don't want to be sitting in one place. It's just not good for the body. I mean, on all levels. And stretching really, really helps. I mean, that's one thing 'cause I, I used to suffer from sciatica as well. So I understand the pain and the discomfort and -- Anne: Sciatica comes out of nowhere some days. Pilar: Oh, I know, I know it's awful. Anne: It's like women of a certain age, not just women, but I'm just saying I never experienced sciatica. And now all of a sudden, it came on, and then it seemed to never go away, and then it went away, but then it came back. And so that is something that I struggle with, and it's very, very tough to stretch that, but it is important that I stretch every day to help that because you know, I don't want to be uncomfortable. First of all, I don't want to render myself, you know, unable to feel comfortable, and then try to go into my booth and perform. I mean, that is just something that is not a good thing. So having those conscious things that you're doing to maintain wellness, not just, and we had spoken about vocal wellness in a previous episode, and now we're extending it to physical wellness, and a mental wellness is also something that I think is super important for us. And something that I've mentioned multiple times on the podcast, your mental health is so important, so that you're in your best performance mode. PIlar: There's so many things that you can do to help yourself because a lot of times people say, oh, I don't know what to do. It can be something as simple as closing your eyes for a minute and just breathing in, you just like breathing in one, breathing in -- breathing out two, breathing in three, breathing out four. And you go all the way up to 10, and then you come back down, and let's say, you're stressed and you're trying to get a voice or a feeling, you're trying to finish a sentence or you're stuttering. Which sometimes it's like, I will just so trip over myself. And I literally just take a step back, I take off my headphones and I sit on the floor and I just breathe. And then all of a sudden it's like, I don't know where I was, but I disconnected from that stressful moment. And then I can just come back to the work. That helps me so much. I kind of envision it like, and I may have mentioned this before, like when a dog turns around three times. If you turn around three times, let's say you're really, really stressed or you're, you're in a bad mood or whatever, you turn around three times and you can't really remember what it was that feeling because it's like, you're just kind of just, just shook it out of yourself. So it's like shaking that off. That helps me a lot. Something that helps me as well, let's say when I want to just -- stress relievers. Because the other thing that we don't realize is that when we're sitting at a desk, we're not always standing with our backs straight. We might be hunched over. We might be, our spine is in a C. We've got our hands in a certain way. And then you wonder why your hand hurts because you've just been like gripping the mouse like there's no tomorrow. So there's so many things that we don't even realize as the day goes by. So to get up every hour to breathe, to turn around, to do a little bit of what I described was just a little teensy weensy part of meditation, or just to close your eyes for a minute will help get you through the day without as much stress. And what they've discovered in studies is that meditation -- and meditation can be as simple as what we just did. And it can be just something to close, just closing your eyes and sitting, or it can be lying down -- is a natural reliever for cortisol. Cortisol just makes you that much more stress. When you have cortisol in your system, it's like you're on fire, and you're all your muscles are just clenching. And so meditation is actually a natural reliever of that. So it could be something as simple as just reading in a book, reading aloud, reading a poem, just breathing in and out, all those little teensy tips and tricks throughout the day can help you. And that's important because we do spend a lot of time in our booths, in our rooms. It can be a really tight space. It can be a big space, and in one position, and you want to try to relieve that. Anne: Yep. Pilar: So Anne, tell me what you do to relieve your stress on any given day. Do you jump out of bed? Do you wake up, do you read a little bit? What do you do? Anne: So for me, I, I actually will -- I don't jump out of bed. I have a compression machine, a compression machine, which actually moves fluid in my body to where it's supposed to go because I've had some, just some lingering issues from back in the day when I was taking some medication. And so I have to get rid of excess fluid in my body, through my lymph nodes. So, and what's really cool is it's actually kind of, kind of healthy anyways, if I didn't need to move that fluid, it just -- it basically moves everything where it needs to be. That's the first thing I'll do in the morning for about 20 minutes. And that really makes me feel a whole lot better when I get up out of bed, that now I've had all of the necessary fluids moved to my lymph nodes that need to be so that my body can take care of what it needs to take care of for the day. While I'm doing that, it's a really good time to just kind of meditate and really think back on what -- well, I like to have time to think about what I'm grateful for and I always want to make sure I do that. You know, not to get too much of that, but I always have to say what I'm grateful for every day, because I just feel like that reaffirms how lucky I am. And it starts my day in a positive note. So it's kind of like meditation and then -- but not necessarily thinking about nothing. I'm actually thinking about what I'm grateful for, which really puts me in a positive note for the day to get going. And then I will, I am guilty of liking coffee, so I will have a cup of coffee. However, I have no problem drinking as much water. As a matter of fact, I might drink more water than it's necessary, but I, at least I start off with my 33-ounce alkaline water from Kirkland. And so I will chase my coffee or within sips of coffee, I will take sips of water as well, especially if I've voice over to work to do, I'll -- I probably won't drink coffee. If I have voiceover work to do, I will almost definitely hydrate in the booth. And I also wear my watch so that it reminds me to stand up every hour. And out in the garage, I have an elliptical and a Peloton, and my husband, believe it or not, who used to teach back in the day, back in the 80s, he used to teach step, he just got to step. So interesting, he's going to be stepping beside me now while I'm doing my elliptical. So that'll be fun in our garage. And I'm so happy that we set that up in the garage. And we did that during the pandemic because we weren't able to go to a gym at the time. And the two of us were working like crazy people and sitting a lot, and it did not do us any favors. And my husband for all the, all the people that know my husband, he's a really good cook. So the cook combination with the sitting a lot, I gained my pandemic weight for sure, but we're getting ourselves back on track. So I'm happy about that. Pilar: Well, you just mentioned something that I think is really important is the gratitude. I do the gratitude list at night mentally. Some people write it out, and I think it's really important because we take a lot sometimes -- at least I do. I can't speak for everyone, but sometimes I take things for granted. So I have to remember and be grateful that I have a roof over my head. I have food in my refrigerator. I have car that I can drive to go to my sessions, that I have money to pay for my food. That I have a cat who loves me. Well, that's questionable. But, um, he does, it's on his terms. And I think it's really important because when you're in gratitude, you're less likely to be in resentment over -- Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: -- I didn't get this job. Why didn't they call me? Or I'm not as far as I should be -- all thoughts that every single person on the planet, if you're a working voice actor has had. Whether we want to admit it or not, we do because we're human. And so having gratitude, I just think is so important. Even if it's the little things, it's like, oh, I got a callback. Yeah, I didn't get the job, but guess what? They heard me and they wanted to hear me again. How awesome is that? So it's like being grateful for everything, whether the outcomes are the way you wanted them or not what you were expecting. I think that that's really important. Anne: I was going to say mental health, right? As we're being grateful. I think that throughout the day, we have to also try to revisit at some point, if we need to. Because during the day, the online social media events of the day can start to stress you out. And I think you need to take those breaks and maybe think again about being grateful or why you're grateful. I know there are times I'll read something in social media, and it will just fire me up. I can't imagine, like if I were to look at my watch and see my heart rate, sometimes my heart rate has gone up from some of the posts that I see online. I've tried really hard to back away a little bit from that, because I know that's not necessarily productive for me because I don't want to spend my day in that state where I have an elevated heart rate because I'm frustrated or I saw something that somebody posted that I, I just am like, I can't believe I just saw that. And so I think that the mental health and the stress of the day, we need to get up and shake it out. And I wanted to say, for sure, our fur babies. My cats are a huge part of my mental wellbeing. A lot of times I'll just go and play with them. That is like, oh, I need a kitty break. So for me, I'm like, I need a kitty break. Where's my kitty? And I'll just go and hug them. And you know, what's so interesting, Pilar? Our cats are so, so happy. For the past two and a half years since we've had to be home, I cannot tell you how happy the studio cats are. I mean, as a matter of fact, we brought them to the vet, and each one of them, the vet is like, their blood work is immaculate. Like they are some of the healthiest cats I have seen. And of course, you know, I'm all proud. And I'm like, well, you know, it's because we take really good care of them, and we play with them. And the funny thing is, is I think that's a part of their health too and our health. So we can not only help our health, but our animals' health to take a walk, play with the animals. And that's been a big difference from me, even when growing up, I've always had cats, but I've really like excelled at playing with my cats because it's good for them. And it's good for me. You know, it keeps them in shape. It keeps their mental -- they're hunters, right? So we have to play with them and have them hunt things. And so I've, I've actually understood my animals a whole lot more since this pandemic, because I've really taken the time to use them for good mental health for me and a good studio cat hug, there's nothing better. Oh. Outside of my Jerry, but you know. Pilar: I concur, is all I can say because mine, my cat really has so many duties besides which I am on hand and foot catering to him, you know? 'Cause it's always, it's always about him. It's not about me. It's I just, you know, of course, as I've said -- Anne: We're just here to serve them. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. I just, I just pay the rent for him. Anne: Yup. Pilar: You know, he sits there and he looks at me. And so I, when I have stuff that I have to work on, voice acting, I will do my, my characters. I will try them on him, and he'll look at me, and it's perfect. Yeah. I have a great time doing it. Anne: Yes, they're the best audience for characters. And it's funny because people who aren't even voice actors, right, when we speak in our, in our pet voice, don't we always go up into this elevated character voice. Oh my, who's your good kitty. We always go into these different character voices talking to the cats. Pilar: It's the funniest thing. I have gotten more work when I go into my speaking to Paco voice on an audition. It is, it astounds me because I sit there and go, you know, [Spanish gibberish] it's like, I don't know what the hell that is, but I'm just saying it. And yeah, that gets me work. So I'm like, yeah, I just -- Anne: There you go. He even gets you work, Paco even gets you to work. I love it. Pilar: He even gets me work. So he's, he's earning his supper. Anne: And you know, what's so cool? Not even are they just great sounding boards for, for your characters, my cats, they have their own Facebook page. They have their own Instagram page. So I connect with people through my cats. So my cats are so darn cute. Right? Everybody's cats are so cute. It's kind of a talking point. Who doesn't love to see pictures of fur babies on the internet? I mean, it's the one thing that's not political. It's not, right, It's not going to make anybody angry unless you're looking at things that, you know, we don't want to see happen to animals like abuse, but anybody I know can't resist a kitten photo or a puppy photo or any kind of animal, really. I think that that's, that contributes to the mental health and wellness of, of everybody, ven on the internet. Pilar: you know, I've resisted having Paco as his separate page. I'm getting a little envious of people who have a separate page for their animals. And I'm thinking I might have to do that because that's the other thing, I take pictures of him all day long. I just put a picture on my Instagram page, because I just, I couldn't stand it. And I just, I get, I like, I want everyone to see what he's doing, the cuteness. Anne: And I probably have, I mean, honestly, all right, here. I'm just going to tell you, Pilar, between you and I. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: I probably have -- and the rest of the world listening -- I probably have 50,000 pictures of my cats because I've taken pictures of them when they were little. We got them as kittens and that's like, oh my gosh, they're so darn cute. And there's three of them. So you know what I mean? Like, so it's triple. Pilar: It's one times three, right? Exactly. Because you have to take pictures of all of them. Yeah. I totally get it. Anne: I'm not ashamed, but I will admit that I probably do have about 50,000. Now, granted right now I don't have any children. So they, they kind of like, they're my children, my fur babies. Pilar: iCloud storage must love you. Anne: Well, I pay for extra of course, but they're so darn cute. Pilar: Don't we all? Anne: They just make me happy. And I think that anyone that's looking for wellness, if they can and they're animal lovers, I think that is such a huge contributor to the biggest stress reliever. The biggest unconditional love happy thing that you can do for yourself and your business. I'm just saying, yes, get a kitty, get a little kitten. Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: Or -- I don't want to say don't, you know, I'm not, I'm also, I love -- Pilar: Or a dog, or a dog. Anne: Yes, exactly. Pilar: I used to have a dog and a cat. Anne: Or a goat, or a goat. Pilar: Or a goat. Anne: Or a horse, how about a horse? Pilar: It's hard to sleep with a horse in your bed. So that would be a little bit difficult. Anne: Or a teacup pig. I mean, I've always wanted one of those, honestly. Pilar: Wow. Anne: Pigs are cute. Pilar Okay. Yeah, they are cute. Anne: They're adorable. So anyways, yeah, fur babies, fur babies are good. So I think that, yes, it's so, so important that we consider our wellness. And I think sometimes though it takes being, because we're so invested -- this is me to a T, right? I get so focused. I get so involved in my work and yes, I have admitted, I'm probably, I work more than I should. And with that, it's more important than ever, right, that I take time out to take care of myself. And you don't want to have something crazy happen to you before you stop and think about your health. You know, you don't want to have a health event happen, and I've had a health event happen. And I should know, I feel like I should know more than any other time in my life. I should be so aware of my health, but sometimes I just get carried away and get so involved, and the stress starts getting to me, and you know, it's time to stop and shake it out. Pet your cat, have a little gratitude, go for a walk, get that exercise in there. And yeah, I have a balance, have a balance to career. Pilar: I think that that is all so important because what you're doing even while you're working and even if you're -- Anne: Even if you love what you do, right? Pilar: Even if you love what you do, even if you're really busy, you want to have habits that are going to be healthy habits that are preventative. Anne: Yeah, agreed. Pilar: So you don't have to sit there and be like -- I, I was at a studio the other day and the voiceover actor came out and he'd been drinking Diet Coke in the studio. And then he said, oh, I'm going to just take a couple of extras Diet Cokes. This was a very, very tall, very large man. And I thought he drank at least three in the studio, and he's going to drink three more Diet Cokes? And I was like, wow, if you do that year after year after year, what's that going to do to your body as, as a cumulative effect? Whereas drinking tons of water, let's say, instead of that, and, and meditating, and walking, and having these healthy habits is insurance towards the future. So you want to be healthy for as long as you possibly can and have a healthy voice. And so you want, you want to think about what you're putting into your body and what, and the thoughts that you're thinking and how you're waking up in the morning. So I think everything that we've talked about today is just, is super important as moving forward into living a healthy life in voiceover. Anne: And you know, what else? I think this has been a great discussion. You know, what else can help is by helping others, giving back. And I really, I'm a big believer in that. You know, I've always, always tried to, when I can give back, give back to my community, give back to people in need. So, and I really believe that giving back is such an important part. And one of our newest sponsors has given us a opportunity, an opportunity to contribute to make a difference and to give back to the communities that give to us. And that organization is 100voiceswhocare.org, and you can actually contribute and make a big difference. 'Cause I know sometimes it's like, I feel like I don't have a lot to contribute, and how can I really make a difference? Well, the really cool thing about this organization is we get a minimum of 100 people together, all donating, literally just $100 a quarter. So that's like $33.33 a month. And if you combine that together for a quarter with 100 voices, that's $10,000 that can be given to a community or an organization in need. And that is a wonderful, wonderful feeling. So you guys can find out more by visiting 100voiceswhocare.org, and you can make a difference for sure. I'd also like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor ipDTL that allows Pilar and I to have these wonderful conversations every week. You guys can be BOSSes, find out more at ipdtl.com. Thanks so much, guys. You guys have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Pilar: Thank you, everyone. Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

To join or not to join, that is the question. Anne & Pilar delve deep into how union & non-union work has shaped their careers. They discuss the biz before SAG and AFTRA merged, jobs in a right-to-work state, and changes in work accessibility due to tech advances & the pandemic. Joining the union is a very personal choice, and depends on where you live and what genres you wish to work in. Learn from Pilar as she shares her journey to joining the union + Anne who explains her reasons for remaining non-union so you can make the best choice for you like a #VOBOSS. >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to be back again with my very special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Hey Pilar. How are you today? PIlar: I am doing great, Anne. How are you? Anne: I'm doing awesome this beautiful morning. Hey, I got a question for you. I have a lot of students that ask me about the union and should they be part of the union and when is the time for them to join the union. And I also have another student who's going to be moving to California, and they're asking these questions about the union. So I think it would be a great time to talk about it with you, because I know that you are a union member, and I like to kind of do a here's the union 101 kind of class in the podcast today. So I know there's a lot of people out there that have questions. And tell me a bit about how you joined the union. Pilar: Well, I have a long history with the union. I started out actually in New York because I got extra work on "One Life to Live" back when there were a lot of soap operas. And basically the day that I walked into the area where they -- the holding room, where you have all the extras sit, this very nice person, stuck out her hand and said, hi, I'm so-and-so, a member of AFTRA, the local representative. And I thought, oh, this is interesting. So literally I had not stepped foot on a soundstage in New York when there was somebody already basically saying to me, this is an offer you can't refuse. And so, yeah, because it's like, you don't really have a choice. You have to become a member of the union. Anne: You gotta join here. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. So I did, I joined happily, and I actually did a lot of extra work with the different soap operas in New York. And then when I went to Colombia, they don't have unions down there. They didn't. Now they are starting to, they do have something together. Anne: Let me just back up. You were in New York at what time? What year was it that you joined the union in New York? Pilar: Oh gosh, this was the 90s. Anne: Okay. Pilar: This was in the nineties. And this is when, because AFTRA is not -- everybody thinks of AFTRA as just radio, but also -- Anne: Yeah, that's what I remember. Pilar: Yeah. AFTRA's also TV. Anne: But not all TV though, right? Pilar: But not all TV. Exactly. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I want to say that AFTRA might just be daytime TV or it was daytime TV or maybe it was -- Anne: Plus radio, Pilar: -- like game shows and stuff like that. Yeah. Anne: Yeah. Because when I got into the industry, you know, it was all AFTRA. There was no SAG. There was all AFTRA for voice actors, that that's what you were supposed to join. And then they merged at some point. Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. And actually AFTRA stands for the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. Anne: Yes. Yes. Pilar: So that tells you right there, that it was specifically for some forms of television. I'm not really sure back then what the distinction was, but SAG and AFTRA were completely separate unions. Anne: So you were in New York and you were an AFTRA member in the 90s, and then you went to Colombia. And you were on, you were on television in Colombia, but there's. yeah, no unions. Pilar: No unions, but I kept my AFTRA card anyway, because I thought you never know. And dues were very, very low. So I just, I kept it, I kept it up and then I came back to -- Anne: Good thinking. Pilar: Yeah. Well, yeah. Thank goodness. Yes. Yes. Anne: 'Cause you were in Colombia for, what, eight years, right? Pilar: Nine years, nine years. Anne: So a while. So I like that manifestation that you never know, right, when you're going to need that card again or that status. Okay. Cool. All right. Pilar: And the dues back then were very, you know, they were very reasonable, so it wasn't, it wasn't a big deal. So I come back to Miami because I decide I want to be halfway between Bogota and New York. Anne: And that was in the 2000s, right? Pilar: That was in the 2000s, early 2000s. And then I discovered that Miami is a right to work state. Anne: So let's talk about that. Let's define that first. What is a right to work state? Pilar: Okay. So the actual definition of a right to work state is that states have the authority to determine whether workers can be required to join a labor union, to get and keep a job. So labor unions still operate in those states, but workers, they can't be forced to become members as a requirement of their job, which they do have to be, let's say, in New York or Los Angeles, if you want to work on a soundstage. Anne: Right, you have to be in the -- Pilar: You have to be a member of the union. Yeah. And they're very strict with that. And I remember when I worked in, in television in the times that I did extra work, it was so interesting to be on the soundstage. And for example, the coordinator, the guy who yells 5, 4, 3, 2, you know, 1, one time, the director was already in the booth and the actors were on stage, and the guy went to move the plate, and he was not allowed to, because a member of the prop union had to come over and move the plate two inches forward. They're very, very strict about that. And for good reason, you know, because that's -- the unions are there to protect the workers. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: And what each person's job is. So when I got to Miami, I started auditioning and I started getting non-union jobs. And I was happy with that. And every, I remember union actors complains saying once they became union, then there weren't as many possibilities. Anne: Because there was other people vying for the same roles, right? Pilar: Yes, exactly. And there was so much competition. And so non-union actor could vie for a union job. Whereas in other states like California, Los Angeles -- Anne: You had to be union. Pilar: You had to be union. So I kept booking work and you know, I was, I was fine with that. And this, I was booking on camera work at that time. Anne: Did people try to convince you to join the union? Were you offered? Pilar: No, because Florida is a little bit like the wild west, back then it was. And so there was nobody compelling, no -- there was nobody showing up at the door saying, you gotta, you gotta join. No, not like, not like in New York. Anne: Right. Pilar: And so one day I got a call from my agent and she said, you booked a SAG commercial. And I thought, oh, okay, this is cool. And it's just, it's so interesting. The world of non-union versus union. 'Cause I did a ton of extra work in New York on films. And so I think I mentioned that before, like I basically touched Arnold Schwartzenegger's sleeve. And then one time I was in this Michael J. Fox film, and we were in a theater, we -- no, it was just, uh, just hoards of non-union extras sitting in the seats, and then there's this altercation. And then James Woods comes and I don't know what he does. And literally he had a cowboy boot on, I'll never forget it. And he stepped on my foot. And so we did like four takes, and every time he went in, he stepped exactly on my foot. I mean, he, like, my foot was his mark, so wild. And so I've actually, it's so funny. 'Cause I looked at that, I've looked at that scene and you can't really see me. You can see my jacket, and you can see me for like a second, but I'm like, yep. That's the day that I got a bruise that covered my foot for about a week. Oh my gosh. It was so painful. But I was so excited because, you know, James Woods stepped on my foot -- Anne: Stepped on your foot. Absolutely. Right. Pilar: It was interesting. And I also did extra work on "Law and Order," and they treated the union actors very differently from the way they treated the non-union actors. And I remember thinking, wow, they get like extra candy bars. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Pilar: Right. And they get like special food. Anne: Yep. Pilar: And it's a whole different world. And they were all in cliques and they would bring their board games and their jigsaw puzzles. And they would, 'cause you know, you're basically waiting all day to do something. And you, the time that you work is so little, but I just remember looking at them going, wow, that's such a cool world. And it's, you know, it's the world of waiting. It's like, you're just basically a waiter. You know, you wait and you wait. So I did a whole bunch of those in New York. And then I started doing more non-union principal work. And then when I got this SAG commercial, I was treated like a queen. I couldn't believe it. I was like, usually you go -- when you're an extra, you go and you, you bring your own clothes, and they look at your clothes and you put your own makeup on, and they treat you a little bit like cattle. I mean, you know, the people are nice. The PA's are nice, but you're just basically shuffled off into a room and you're in. Then they, you know, they, they're, you know, it's food and whatever. When you're like as a union person -- and this, I didn't even have a speaking part. It was a really, really fun thing. We were just all these characters in like this little sort of little mini play of an office, and my makeup was done. My hair was done. They kept fiddling with my outfit, and I was just like, wow, this is what it's like to be in the union. And at that point I wasn't a member of the union. So that was a really special moment. This was like my first SAG on camera commercial. It was like the big leagues because I had done that extra work on daytime TV that was AFTRA back in New York. But this felt really, really special. And so, I don't know, maybe a couple months after that I received a letter. Anne: I was going to say, you did the commercial, you did the commercial, the SAG commercial. And then they asked you to join? Pilar: Yes, yes. And then they asked me to join. And -- Anne: Was it a requirement? It was a requirement? Pilar: Nope, because you -- a lot of the times what happens is let's say you're, you're an extra, and then you get upgraded to a principal. That happens a lot. And that's how people become members of the union. That that's how it used to be. Now it's, it's a lot more tightly controlled, but that's how a lot of people used to get their SAG cards. So I received that letter, and I wasn't a member of the SAG union when I did the commercial. Anne: Right. But they treated you so nicely. And then you say, wow, I want that again. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: I get that. Pilar: I want to get my hair and makeup done. Anne: I want hair and makeup and yeah. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was really spoiled in Colombia because I mean, I would go to work pretty much every day 'cause I worked four or five days a week. And so I would just go home with my makeup, and I would go out. And so, you know, it had been so long when I was back in the States that it was just nice. I was like, oh wow. This could be really fun to have this on a regular basis. And I decided I wasn't ready to join the union because it was expensive to join it. Anne: So AFTRA it wasn't necessarily costly, but SAG was a different story back then? Pilar: Yes. SAG was different story. Yeah. Yeah. Because the, the initiation dues for AFTRA were so low when I joined, but SAG was, you know, SAG, it was a big deal. And what was going to happen was that then I couldn't do any non-union work. Anne: Exactly. Exactly. Pilar: Then I start getting into voiceover, and then I started doing -- I find that there's a lot of voiceover dubbing going on. So I start going to all these different studios. Anne: So bring me up to date as to what year. Have they merged yet? Because by the way, BOSSes, in case you're not familiar SAG and AFTRA did merge. Pilar: This is like 2010. Anne: Okay. Pilar: Where I start working in voiceover and I start going to the different studios. Anne: And you're a member of both unions. Pilar: No, no, I'm still a member of AFTRA. Anne: Oh, that's right, excuse me, AFTRA but not SAG. Pilar: Yep. I'm not a member of SAG. Anne: Got it. Pilar: And then I don't see anything in the bylaws that I can't do this. So I just keep doing voiceover. I get a little worried because I think, I don't know if this goes against it, but I checked one time with a friend, and they said, no, no, you can do this. And I was like, okay, great, wonderful. And it was literally the only game in town. So then SAG and AFTRA merged. And I believe, I want to say they merged in 2014 around there, maybe 2012, 2014. Anne: I think it was 2014. Pilar: 2014. Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah. So one day I got a notice saying you are now a member of SAG-AFTRA and I was like, oh, oh, okay. Anne: So, oh no, let's see. I'm just looking at -- formed on March 30, 2012. Look at me. Does that make sense? Pilar: Yeah, because it says here that it -- that they were suspended in 2014, but yeah, you're right, founded 2012. So that means that -- Anne: On my birthday. Pilar: On your birthday. Oh, well, there you go. Anne: March 30 is my birthday. Yeah. Special occasion. Pilar: Is that Pisces? Anne: Aries. Pilar: Aries. Yeah. Okay. Anne: So sorry. There was a little tangent there, BOSSes. Pilar: I'm a Gemini, by the way. Anne: Okay. Pilar: There you go. Anne: There you go. Pilar: There you go. Gemini and Aries voiceovers. So now in the member of the union, and now I started going, uh-oh, this is now getting tricky. What do I do? And that's when I actually decided, I thought, okay, well, let me see about doing audio books, because I was not getting enough work through the dubbing because it doesn't pay very well. Years pass and I am still doing dubbing. Anne: So it got hard to find work, being a member, right, being a member of both unions -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- where you were living to find more work, and that was in Florida. Correct? So it was hard to find work for you? Pilar: Yes. Now, and so it was hard to find work on camera -- Anne: Got it. Pilar: -- because I wasn't really tapped into the voice over industry per se when I started. I was really more focused on on-camera. In Florida there is no union voiceover work 'cause it is a right to work state. There might be, but I didn't see anyone when I was there. I just, I was always going for what was around. And you know, you, you worked with different studios and there might be, you could do commercials and stuff, but they never talked about union per se. Other people might've had different experiences. Anne: I want to kind of bring this back that this was -- I feel like it was a different time. Pilar: It was. Anne: Before the Internet, right? We're still talking before the advent of online anything, right? Pilar: Right. Anne: Where today we have abilities and opportunities everywhere. Because back in the day, right, when you had a voiceover job, you went to a studio and you did that. It wasn't where you could live, you know, in one state and connect to the studio -- well, until the 2000s, right, and connect to a studio in LA. So there's all sorts of interesting technological advancements that have maybe changed the way the landscape of union, non-union jobs' availability. Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. Anne: Because now if you were in Florida, you could still, I feel like you'd have opportunities for union jobs because now we have technologies that allow us to connect to studios that are in different states. Pilar: And the pandemic has changed a lot too. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Pilar: It's almost like it's brought the world closer because -- Anne: Interesting. Pilar: -- just so much more accessible. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: I will tell you something interesting. Voice123 was launched in 2003, but I don't think people knew about that. Anne: I was part of Voice123 when they first, they first started. They were, there was no union jobs posted on there. Pilar: Right. And you didn't go to the Internet to go -- you, you went to a studio to, to get work back then, right? Anne: Back then before, yeah, before all the pay to plays. And before all the online casting sites, exactly. You would go record in a studio. As a matter of fact, when I first started in voiceover, it was not a requirement to have a home studio at all. Pilar: Of course. Anne: That was like a thing that some people did, you know, because they were, you know, tech heads. And as we evolved with a home studio, it's so funny, 'cause it seems like just yesterday, but it wasn't. You know, it's like, wow. Things have really progressed with technology and home studios and, and the landscape of, of how to get work in, in voiceover. And it really ties into this how do you get work if you're in a right to work state? How can you in, and you're part of the union, is there enough work? I've heard that even recently that it's hard to get union work. I mean, where are the opportunities? Pilar: So here's the thing. What I discovered is, which is something that's very -- more people know about it because is basically word of mouth is that you can convert non-union work -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- to union. You can convert it -- Anne: Through a paymaster. Pilar: -- that's not something -- yes, through a paymaster, but it's not something that's necessarily advertised. So, and it all depends on rates. You have to be, you know, you have to be up on your rates. But one of the ways that I found it was through audiobooks. So I was able to, by having the paymaster -- ACX used to have this. They've kind of done away with it now. It's not the same as when I started. Anne: Oh, interesting. Pilar: The pie has been made smaller. Let's put it that way, but you still can do work through ACX. Anne: ACX that's union? Pilar: Yeah. But also get yourself a paymaster. And on certain jobs you can basically ask the client, can we do it this way? And it's possible. It's just, it is a little harder. Anne: From Florida, you move to California. So now you're right in a right to work state to California. And so how does it -- and you're a member of the union. So how does it change when you move to California? Pilar: I actually spoke to members, people who worked at the union multiple times saying to them, I would like to work as a union member, but I can't, not in this state. And they were very aware of this. And they said, yeah, we know. We know that we cannot have competitive pricing in a place like Florida. So they knew exactly what was going on. It was not like news to them because I said, you know, I wanted to be upfront. I said, this was happened to me. I was not a member of the union. I became a member of SAG because of SAG-AFTRA, and I, I have to make a living. So when I came to California, I found that it was a lot easier because the structures were in place much more for union actors. Anne: That makes sense. Pilar: It also helps having the agents that I do, and they are phenomenon. I was just really blessed to get the agents that I have. Anne: I was just going to say, and now with the added agencies that you're able to work with, and the fact that you can work remotely can help now as well to increase the opportunities for union work. Pilar: Yes. Because, Anne, when I lived in Florida, I was working all the time, but I would never have had the opportunity to audition for a McDonald's, for a Geico. Those just were not available to me. So there is something to be said. The union has its pluses and its minuses. But I will say that my decision to come here and work as a, a union actor has probably been the best decision that I ever made. Now, it's not for everyone, but having been on the other side, having been in a right to work state, it makes a huge difference. Anne: Now let's talk about, it's not for everyone. Now, I will say, as someone who is non-union for me, it really is just based on the genres that I get work in, and the genres that I enjoy doing work in. So I would say obviously, if there's anything broadcast, union is definitely a possibility. You do not have to -- if you're a voice talent, you're just coming up in the ranks, you, you do not have to join the union right away. As a matter of fact, I think it behooves you to do some work, figure out where your niche is, and where you're successful at, at obtaining work, and make the decision then, because for me, I do a lot of non-union work. And for me, it, it works. Even though I live in a state that would benefit me if I decided to join the union and really, you know, go for those genres that can pay off. And I would say that the really nice part about it, the advantage from my standpoint, is that you've got somebody that is on your team negotiating for you and making sure that you are getting paid fairly and equitably. Whereas non-union people, that's, a lot of that is, is left to them, to their own devices, to make sure that you're getting paid fairly and equitably, but it's always nice to have somebody on your team fighting for you and having an establishing ground rules. Pilar: I agree. We as actors, we don't always have those negotiating skills, and I'm certainly not as good as I could be. I'm definitely better than I was. And when I was a member of Equity, which I've, I've lapsed it because I'm not doing theater, it really came into play. Because they require that you have minimums, and they're very protective. And all the unions, that is their goal, that is their intent. And so that's something that I really appreciate in a vast sea and all this competition and all these people coming up to you and offering you this and offering you that. And then you find out, oh, whoops, that's a scam. So it really does depend on the genre that you plan to concentrate on. Anne: Sure, yeah. Pilar: And I will tell you this me probably along with a hundred thousand other people have come to LA thinking, oh yeah, I really want to do animation, which I did. And I do. And I've probably done one thing. However, I've done a lot more commercial work, which I wasn't expecting to do because I thought I was going to get to do animation. It's like, that's like the big joke because everyone and their mother wants to do it. And it's -- it's very hard and it's very competitive. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: And so I'm constantly improving myself, and I'm constantly working at it. And I'm, you know, I'm doing my homework, like in the other sessions that we've talked about. And, you know, surprisingly for example, I've done some union video games. So that was not something that I was expecting. 'Cause that's much more, they're more dramatic and, and I've been exposed to other kinds of work that I, I had no idea about. I would never have done -- I did a whole campaign last year that I would never have done if I had stayed in Miami. So becoming a union actor just really opens your vistas as to the possibilities. So -- Anne: In specific genres, for sure. Pilar: In -- yes, in specific genres. Obviously in e-learning and narration, that's something that's still, that doesn't conform to the union. So it doesn't make sense to be a union member if you, if that is the bulk of your work. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: So, you know, it, it depends on location and it depends on, on the kind of work that you want to do. I think that the decision to become a union actor is really up to the individual. It's not something that has to be done in a hurry or like, like FOMO, fear of missing out. Anne: I agree. Pilar: It's something that has to be done strategically and -- Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: -- and when you're comfortable, because it will come with its ups and downs. This took me a period of -- it was a very long time. This isn't just something that just happened and I decided, I mean, it was over a very long period of time that I made the decision. And so when you're comfortable, I think that that's when it's the right time to really look at it, because I will say this. It has been amazing the past two and a half years to be part of SAG-AFTRA, really and truly, and I feel so blessed. However, that said, I came into that. I grew into that moment. It wasn't something that I would just say, oh yeah, join the union or, or no, don't join the union. Anne: Exactly. Because you were already a part of it. So you found the ways to make it really work to your advantage I think as well. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: I think if you are just a voice talent, and you're living in a right to work state, or you're doing your genres that you're doing the majority of your work and don't necessarily -- they're not necessarily broadcast, you have some time to grow into it or see if it's something that you might want to get involved with. I think that there's definitely some pluses and there's definitely some things that you've got to think about. I know that you do get health benefits, but I think that that's been a, I'm going to say some negotiations happening there, or some changes in the contract in the last couple of years that have not been positive. Pilar: But I will say this, that was one of the main reasons that I wanted to come here, and then they switched it and then they raised the levels. But coming from somebody who was paying over like $1,300 a month for insurance back in Miami -- Anne: For insurance, health insurance. Pilar: Yeah. To basically paying a quarter of that per every three months is kind of amazing. So, you know, one of the things that I learned from other union actors is that they make sure, and they get that out of the way first from the very beginning. So it's like, I'm constantly auditioning. Anne: So in talking about health benefits, you do have to hit a minimum in order to be eligible for those, correct? Pilar: Yes, you do. And that's what went up a couple of years ago. Anne: Right. Pilar: However, once you hit that minimum, it's amazing. And their health package is like nothing I've ever had. And I had really good health benefits, I thought, in Miami, these are better. They also have some great, great-- the SAG-AFTRA foundation has some amazing webinars and they're constantly teaching. And also for older actors, for dancers, they're constantly trying to get the message across of all the other parts of the, of the performing arts industries, which I think is so helpful. Because, you know, let's say you're a dancer and you are just maybe not wanting to work anymore or you can't work anymore. And so they have all sorts of webinars and workshops where you can learn about these things. And so there are some great benefits to SAG-AFTRA, and again, I, I don't regret in the least having done it. It was just a place where I had to get to it. I had to grow into it. Anne: Absolutely. And BOSSes out there again, it's, it's a personal decision. My career based on genres that aren't necessarily helped by, uh, being a union member. I am able to work and support myself. I think that with healthcare, you know, that is something that you have to take care of yourself that isn't taken care of by SAG-AFTRA. But again, with SAG-AFTRA you have to hit a certain amount of money that you're making in order to be eligible to utilize that benefit. So great conversation, Pilar. I think that it's really great that we went through the of it because I just vaguely remember, God, now I know I'm kind of getting old in this industry, that I vaguely remember I was in it before the merger. And you know, how things happen and how things have evolved with how we get work, and how we can now with technology, there's all other avenues to get work for non-union people in terms of with the technologies and casting sites and pay to plays. And as well as how the union, I think, you know, the union is struggling a little bit to keep up with the advances in technology. And that's just any, I think, organization like that has a lot of ground to cover. And I think that that might be one improvement. I've heard people talk about that hopefully the union will get more with the times a little bit. And there was, I think, what was it, a couple of years ago, there were some people going on strike regarding the video games, and the union wants to make sure that their members are protected. So -- Pilar: Yeah, but their heart's in the right place. Anne: Yeah, I agree. Pilar: They're definitely on the right track. Anne: I agree. I absolutely agree. So BOSSes, lots to think about. We covered a lot of ground. Pilar, I totally appreciate your wisdom and your experience with all this, because it's really, really helped me to see how it's evolved over the years and benefits and things that we might want to consider as we continue our journeys in our voiceover careers. So thanks so much for that. Pilar: No, absolutely. Thank you. Anne: Okay, guys, I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to our new sponsor, 100 Voices Who Care. This is your chance to use your voice, make an immediate difference and give back to those communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org and a big, big shout-out to other sponsor, ipDTL, you too can network and communicate like a BOSS like Pilar and I do every week. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. We'll see you next week. Bye. Pilar: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

​​This week, the script is flipped! Pilar is interviewing Anne on her specialty: E-Learning, Corporate Narration, and more. Anne shares her secrets for keeping listeners' attention during long scripts + tips on how to have an exciting read for corporate copy. Although many consider these scripts dull, Anne argues that it's the opposite. Putting yourself in the shoes of your favorite teacher or favorite CEO will give you the passion you need to make these jobs soar like a #VOBOSS. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Both: Welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza (I'm Pilar Uribe --) Anne: Hey! Pilar: And today, I'm so excited to bring back your favorite host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Pilar. Pilar: Yes, Anne? Anne: Pilar, what's happening here? Pilar: Well, I'm taking over hosting duties today. Anne: You are? Pilar: I am. Anne: Um, okay. What, okay, so what are we talking about, Pilar, today? Pilar: Well, I want to know, I want to know about corporate narration. I want to know how you got into the business because that's something that I have not done very much of. My world is all about commercials and video games and auditioning, and I've done audio books, but I don't know very much about corporate narration or e-learning. And I would like to know how you got into that end of the business. Anne: First of all, thank you. I love corporate narration. I love talking about it. Any kind of narration, actually, I'm geekily excited by it. So. Pilar: Geekily excited about it. Anne: Geekily excited about it. Pilar: I will remember that. Anne: And I'm going to say I have corporate experience after I graduated -- for those that don't know, I have a degree in computer graphics engineering. And so when I graduated college, I was an engineer for a bio-mechanical firm and designed hip and knee prosthetics. And that was a really cool job. I really loved that. I did that for six years. If you know me and you know that I do medical narration, you'll know that's one of the reasons why I love doing medical narration. So I did not start off in voiceover all of my life, out of the womb. I did have some corporate experience and loved my experience in the corporate world. I also consulted after I got into education. So I do have a few years of being in the corporate world and working in that space and understanding what corporate culture is. And the cool thing is, is that now that I work for myself, I can work for a lot of different companies and not worry necessarily about being thought of as you know, somebody who just jumps from company to company, which at the time when I was doing that, it was not something that corporations looked fondly upon. It was one of those things where loyalty was everything to the company. And it was nice if you worked for a company for a good amount of time before you jumped ship. That was always kind of left for like, oh, that person's just out for money and not necessarily out for their corporate experience or education. But anyways, I digress into that. But my experience with the corporate world was it's similar in a way of our industry where we're really in competition with one another. Although we don't really say that we are, but we are. And, and in the corporate world, I think in a company, you're fighting for rank within the company. And that to me was it was, it was the way it worked, but it was tiring to me. And for me, I just loved doing the job and I loved sharing my knowledge, which is why I ultimately ended up getting up into education because I love to share. I get excited. I get geekily excited about, you know, my job and I would share things ,and that didn't always work out for me in the corporate world. So doing voiceover in corporate narration is the way that I win. If that's just a simple way to put it is a way that I can win at every single company that I work for without necessarily having to go to a meeting where I'm fighting for, I'm fighting for that. And I just, I love, I understand the culture. I understand how to speak the corporate language. And I think that's an important part of being a voice for a company to be able to elevate their brand. Pilar: Yeah. That's a really good point that you make, because as we've said before, we are not just voice actors, we are the business. And so you have to be able to navigate in the world of corporate speak -- Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: -- in order to survive and to thrive. So let me ask you this, Anne, what was that moment, that moment that triggered you to say and to think, Ooh, I could like this idea of doing voice acting? Anne: Well, I had since moved on from my corporate job into education, but interestingly enough, it was a really interesting transition because I did not go on payroll as a teacher. I went on payroll as a staff member, and then ultimately got my certifications and was able to teach as well, but I wasn't a full-time teacher. And so the cool thing is, is that I got to teach when I wanted, teach all different types of elective classes in technology, which there goes my, my love for technology, as well as work as a staff member and actually learn the technology and direct people. So it was kind of a really great combination of corporate and education at the same time. And I was installing phone systems for other campuses and for non-profit organizations and state and county agencies in the state of New Jersey. And after the installation of the phones, people would always need to record their welcome greeting in the phone tree. And nobody really wanted to do that. And so they would have me do it as part of the job. And that's really where my voiceover started because I loved being able to do the voice, be the phone voice. And people told me I was good at it. So they said, you should think about doing something like this for a career or kind of as a side hustle. And that's where that whole thing began. And I looked into it, I got training, I got a demo, started working part-time, and really fell in love with voiceover. And then after my long career in education, after about 20 years, I really was kind of done with snow in the state of New Jersey where I was, and I was ready for a change. The worst thing for a person loved my personality is to be stagnant and not change and not learn. I'm always wanting to learn new things. I'm always wanting to grow. And I felt like I hadn't grown much in the past few years in my position there. And I just was wanting really badly to try something new. And I thought working for myself and being an entrepreneur and doing something that I loved would be a really cool thing to do. So I took a leap of faith and started working full-time in voiceover and learned a whole lot, I'll tell ya, still learning. So it's one of the things that I truly, truly love. I don't think I would ever work for anybody again, even though we are temporarily working for people when we do voiceover. And that's kind of the thought is that whether you're doing a commercial or you doing a narration, you're working for a company who has a product that you are the voice of, and that you are typically selling that product and elevating that product's brand through your voice. And so you are working for a bit with, for companies and I love the challenge of that. Pilar: Sure. So you, you said something that I just want to reiterate for the VO BOSSes out there, working for myself and an entrepreneur. Because I think we really, we do forget that when we are in the midst of our auditions or we're in the midst of learning, that we are our own little bandstand and we have to go forth into the world as creators, yes, but as business people. And I think that that's really important. So I'd love for you to expand on that a little bit, because I -- Anne: It's very important. Pilar: -- think we just, we get too caught up in this, did I get the audition or didn't I, and it's not just about that. It's not really just about the marketing. It's not just about the auditions. It's not just about paying taxes. It's being a really well-rounded person who is in the service industry. So we are providing a service, and we are business people. Anne: Yeah. I think it's so, so important. I mean, so many times people will say, you know, I really enjoyed doing these character voices, and I really want to get into the voiceover industry. And the first thing I'm always saying is that it really is so much more than just going in a studio and being the voice. You are running in an enterprise, really, you're wearing all the hats. And for me, that challenge is just as exciting as the voiceover challenge, to be quite honest. How can I build my business? How can I grow my business and how can I get this job? And so it becomes, to me, it becomes a challenge. I think all my life, I'm that person who gets excited when I have a challenge, and I want to be able to solve problems. It's might be my, that engineer mind of mine. It all comes together when I think about it. When I was younger, I was teaching my dolls. And then, you know, I got into engineering because I love solving problems. And so it kind of just follows me throughout my whole life, where I feel being an entrepreneur is really just challenges that you're presented with and a place where you can continue to grow and grow and grow if you rise up to those challenges, and you're willing to fail a little bit and learn, and then move in another direction and then try that. So that whole entrepreneur thing I just love, but it's scary. It's really scary. And it's funny because I think that I've grown to the point where this is it, I'm good. You know what I mean? I'm doing well. I feel like I'm successful in everything that I'm doing, but I always want to keep adding and growing more. And it's probably one of the reasons why I probably work a little too much, but I'm looking for that next step and how am I going to get there? And a lot of that still takes courage, and it's still really scary, when you start employing people and shifting control out of your hands, into their hands to help grow the business. I think that's even scarier than when I started. And so I continually am scared and inching my way in this direction or that direction to see if I can have a success. And if I have a success, okay, where's the next step? How can I keep climbing up that mountain? So I don't think I'm ever quite at that place where -- I mean, I feel successful, but I can always grow. Pilar: Yeah. And I think it's important too, that when we are in fear of something, obviously we don't want it to paralyze us. Anne: Right. Pilar: It also can catapult us to the next step. Anne: Yeah, great point. Pilar: So being scared of something is not a bad thing, because then that means that you're taking on more responsibility by employing other people. So that's actually a good thing. And because you continue to grow, and you bring these people on to grow as well. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So when you became an entrepreneur, you were talking about how you started in the business in IVR. So for those people who don't know what that is, it means interactive voice response. So it is the voice that you hear "for English press one. Para español, pressione el número uno." That's how I learned. Anne: Which I would hire you for because you do that so well. If I have to speak that one line of Spanish, it's sad. So I have like, I have a great person I know who could say that prompt for you. Pilar: Okay, done. Anne: Done. Pilar: Done. So you're coming from this background of education and technology. Anne: Yes. Pilar: So what makes you think, ooh, I could do this corporate narration. And how did you branch out then into e-learning for example? What propelled you to move into those areas, and explain the difference as well? Anne: I think for me, they're similar. When I started, it's a large market, the corporate market, because as I always say, there's 30.4 million registered companies in the US, and the, all of those companies have a service or a product that they want to tell the story. And they probably all have a website that has a video or a YouTube channel that requires a voice to explain what that service or product does. And I think because of the sheer size of that market, that's where a lot of the jobs in my early years kind of came from. And actually today, I mean, that's a large majority of what I do. I love the fact that I've had the corporate experience to understand the corporate speak. There is corporate speak pretty much in every piece of corporate copy that you look at. And if you understand that, if you understand where you can start driving a story from, that helps you to voice it more effectively. I think in the beginning, I started doing these jobs for companies that I didn't think much about in the beginning, but as I started to do more and more of them, of course, I wanted to grow and improve. Right? I didn't want to just be a narrator that would read the words off the page. It really became to me like, how can I tell this story? Because I know that this company has a deeper meaning behind it. When I did work out of college, when I worked at the orthopedic company that I started with, I was employee number 206. And as employee number 206. And it's funny how I just remember that to this very day, 206 -- I loved the product, I believed in the company. I love the product. And I was ecstatic that this product that I had a hand in creating would help people to walk again. And for me, oh, that was the passion. And that was when I would go to meetings and we would discuss new products and that sort of thing. And some of the meetings became like hours long, not because we were discussing products, but because people were fighting with their egos to say, I did this product, or this product is not where it should be because of this person. I just got really frustrated, and I'm like, can't we all just love what we're doing and be joyful and share in it? And that was probably a young, naive sort of a way to look at it. But I still remember the joy and the excitement of being a part of creating something that could help people. And that's the attitude that I take with every corporate project, because every person who ever started a company -- look at us, right? We have our own companies. We are entrepreneurs. We believe in the product. We believe that we can be a great voice and make a difference and affect others. Well, so does every company founder. I want to believe in the good of that, right? Companies are founded for good reasons. They have a product that can help someone, that can make their jobs easier, make them feel better about themselves. And that is the principle of what I drive the emotional nuanced read or thought process of a corporate narration. And that's something so very different than just reading a mission statement. It's understanding that I am a part of this company, and this company has a passion for their product and their services that they're putting out there to help people. And if I believe in that, I can voice that effectively. Pilar: That's so important what you just said, Anne, and I think we don't do that enough. I mean, I can speak for myself only -- is when we are, even in an audition -- because getting the job great. Wonderful. But even in audition, if you put yourself in the shoes of, I am part of this company, as I'm describing this product, and I'm fighting for this product to get released instead of, oh, you know, I'm just reading copy -- that will make a difference. That will make a difference in what you're feeling and ultimately what you are communicating through your voice. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Pilar: I think that's super, super important. Yeah. So tell me the cousin, the second or the third cousin or the sister? Anne: The e-learning. Ah, yes. Well, okay. So being in the education, starting off as a small child, as we've mentioned before in the podcast, teaching my dolls and being in education, even though I was on payroll as staff, I still taught classes, and I still taught classes at night. I taught adult continuing ed. I taught college. I was adjunct professor, and I just have a love for sharing, for sharing my knowledge with others. And I think that that again is a big reason as to why I do e-learning quite a bit, and I'll do corporate e-learning because I was a corporate trainer as well as training for students for many, many years. And so the e-learning industry, so again, if you're thinking e-learning, I always divide it up into two different categories. You've got educational e-learning, academic e-learning, and then you've got corporate training, and there are two very different buyers. Understanding the educational market, I know that the academic e-learning it's noble, it's wonderful, it's honorable. And I'm proud to be a part of that or have been a part of that. But unfortunately, budgets, aren't always there. Academic institutions, aren't saying, oh, let me pay Anne Ganguzza $10,000 to voice this curriculum. It's just, they don't have necessarily that type of resource typically. And so it's harder to do that type of e-learning. However, it's, it's very necessary. And I do believe just like in corporate, in e-learning you've got to be a passionate teacher. I mean, if you think back to who your favorite teacher is, what were the qualities of that teacher? You know, I think a lot of times people will tell me they were passionate about their topic. They were excited, they were enthusiastic, and they really, they wanted me to learn. And that's again a type of emotion and nuance that you can put behind any e-learning copy that you read and that you voice. And the other aspect, or the other wing is not just academic e-learning, but corporate learning or corporate training. And the cool thing about corporate training is again, you've got the 30.4 million registered companies that probably train their employees. And if they don't train their employees, they also train or they, most of them do train their employees, right, they also train people on their product. So you've got like kind of an internal facing training as well as an external facing training that they do on their products. And so again, that is a huge, huge market. And I think that for that market, again, you've got to be that great teacher. It can't be that person that is reading the material. However, that's what we've done, a lot of us for many, many years is simply read academic material. And the way I look at it is some people will pay for that. Nobody will not pay you for reading the material, but I think there's other types of clients that will pay you for a really engaged read as a great teacher. You've got to keep people entertained for longer than a minute, right? That's one of the biggest differences between commercial or promo. I mean, you're doing this for more than a minute. And with today's attention spans, you have to really work hard to keep people's attention and focus, because there's so many distractions like, oh, look it, I just got it. Just got a text. Oh. And so your voice has to be that you like the Pied Piper of, of e-learning. Your voice has to be audibly raised and in the ear of your listener, and you need to make it easy and engaging for them to learn from you. Pilar: Yeah. And so important. What you're saying about being in the moment while you're reading because -- Anne: Yes, absolutely. Pilar: -- you are providing as the voice over actor, you are providing a service to the person who's listening because they are being paid to learn. So it behooves them to learn from what you're saying. So you have to really engage the person who's on the other side of those headphones, you know, that that's listening to you because you want them to do better because that's basically why you're there in the first place. And so going back to that whole idea of being part of the company, part of the training, I think helps a lot when you're in the, the reading of the copy. Anne: And that's where the acting comes in too, right? Because you can't just read the words off the page. You're the one that's making them come alive. So you need to kind of understand what those words are and to be able to tell the story. And there's a story in corporate narration, as much as there's a story in teaching, right? We learn through stories, easiest through stories. And so even if the corporate copy or the e-learning copy doesn't necessarily tell a story directly, there's an underlying introduction, main topic, topic switch, crescendo, I always call it a crescendo, a learning moment, right. where the light bulb goes off, and then it's wrapped up in a nice little conclusion. So every piece of copy that's written like that, you have to dissect the copy and understand those moments, understand those crescendos, understand the purpose, the introduction, the wrap-up so that you can tell that story effectively. It's so much more than just reading. It's so much more than that. Pilar: It's like a little three act play. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Pilar: I mean, it goes back to Chekov, it goes back to Shakespeare. I mean, you're basically telling a story. It's not about the words. It's about how effectively can you tell this story so the person on the other end goes, oh, okay, that person's making a great point and will retain that at information. Anne: And I'm so passionate about that. It's interesting that I have people who just never thought of it that way. And, and the thing of it is, is I'm going to be real here. I think probably everyone does narration, whether they admit it or not. It's the non-glamorous part of voiceover or it's always been perceived as, oh yeah. And I also do e-learning or I also do a little bit of narration, but the big draw is the, I'm the voice of this game or this commercial. And I think that's amazing. That's just, I'm not discounting any of that. And that's where I think most people, when they get into voiceover, that's the stars in their eyes, kind of, you know, Hollywood -- Pilar: The red carpet experience. Anne: It's the Hollywood experience of a voiceover, but I'll tell you what, the narration and the e-learning, and that's, that's like, I call it like the bread and butter that pays the bills in the meantime. And so there are so many people I think that can elevate their narration game or their e-learning game if they choose to, because we can all be better storytellers. We can all improve. I mean, all of our lives, it's just, it's a mission for me as a, as a lifelong learner -- I think teachers are always lifelong learners because a lot of times they're asking you to teach something that you don't necessarily know. So for me, especially with technology, it was always like, well, learn it by the seat of my pants and then teach it. Pilar: And that's how you would retain it. That's how, that's the best way to retain it. Anne: And that's how you learn, right, teach -- Pilar: Teach someone else. Anne: Yeah, exactly. It's one of the ways you learn, but it's an amazing thing to be able to share in joy your knowledge, whether you're sharing in the passion of a product, of a company as a part of that company, as a part of a greater whole to help people. And again, if you hold that emotion in your heart, as you're telling a corporate story, it does wonders for the effectiveness of it. And the same thing with teaching, the same thing with e-learning. And they're both huge, huge markets in this industry. And I think everyone, everyone needs to take the narration maybe more seriously than just, oh, let me just prettily read these words. I mean, I was always the teacher that said, hey, look, I am not going to say that you won't get paid to read those words pretty. I would never say that. However, if you want to go from good to great or amazing and really capture your audience, we can always learn. We can always learn to tell the story better. Pilar: Yeah, absolutely. Well, you heard it here first. This is the e-learning and corporate narration guru you have been listening to, Anne Ganguzza. I want to do my demo with you now, so, there you go. Anne: Pilar. Thank you. First of all, thanks so much for interviewing me. I mean, I've never had the tables turned on me like that. So thank you for being the first -- and talking with me about something that I clearly love. Pilar: Well, was it, to me, it's really evident how passionate you are and it makes me excited. It makes me want to go out and move that muscle, you know? Because I do the short sprinting, and, and e-learning and corporate narration they're marathons. That's the marathon. So you have to learn the pace yourself, and that's really important to have as a skill. Anne: Well, thank you, Pilar, really. I'm always happy to share my passion as a coach, as a voice artist, as a podcast host. Thanks so much for talking to me about it. This just flew by actually. Pilar: And thanks for letting me interview you. This was fun. Not like you had a choice, right? Anne: Wait, now I have to end the podcast by saying, I want to give a huge shout-out because I like to have a huge impact, and I like to make a difference. You can also make a difference, and if you've ever wanted to donate to a cause that's close to your heart and make a difference, you can do so. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org and you too can make a difference. Also great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. I love talking to my BOSSes and my BOSS, Pilar, and Pilar, thank you for talking to me. Um, you guys can find out more at ipdtl.com. Have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye! Pilar: Ciao, ciao. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

After holding the first ever #VOBOSS Bilingual Audition Challenge, Anne & Pilar welcome the winners onto the show. Joe Lewis, Milena Benefiel, and Ramesh Mahtani share the process behind their winning entry, what stood out to Anne & Pilar when judging the contest as well as what it means to be a bilingual voice talent in today's industry. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey, hey. Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today we have a very, very special episode planned for you. Not only am I here with my awesome special guest co-host Pilar Uribe -- woohoo Pilar! Pilar: Hi, Anne. Anne: Thanks for being here. We are so honored to be here with our VO BOSS bilingual audition challenge winners. So a huge welcome to our English audition winner, Joe Lewis. Yay! Joe: Hello. Ramesh: Hello, Joe. Anne: And our Spanish audition winner -- Pilar: Milena Benefiel. Anne: Yay! Hey Milena. Milena: Hi. Anne: And then our best English and Spanish audition, Ramesh Mahtani. Yay! So first of all, congratulations, everybody, on your wins. Joe: Thank you. Milena: Thank you, gracias. Ramesh: Gracias. Anne: It's very exciting. For those BOSSes that are just joining us and have not joined us before now, Pilar and I ran a bilingual audition challenge contest, which featured a Toyota commercial in both English and Spanish. And this was about, I'm gonna say, three to four weeks ago, and we had a number of submissions. I think it was over what, Pilar, like 130 or something like that? Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Or close to 130. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: And so first of all, everybody did a wonderful job, but we are so, so incredibly excited to have the winners with us today to talk about being bilingual in the industry today and what it takes. So let's start with our English winner, Mr. Joe Lewis. Yay, Joe. Joe, tell us a little bit about yourself and then I wanna play your winning audition. Joe: Okay. Well thank you for having me here. First of all, it's great to be with you all. I am a bilingual voiceover and voice actor, born in the US, Spanish father, American mother. And basically I've been back and forth in the States to Spain and from Spain to the States at different points of my life. And it's been a trip or several trips. You learn to adapt where you are and you do as the Romans do. And you learn a lot of stuff because you have to leverage two cultures, two languages. It's a thing. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. So first of all, let's play your winning audition. And I wanna tell you a little bit about the specs. Our specs indicated that the voice should be confident, knowledgeable, optimistic, never take themselves too seriously, but at the same time, never come off as sarcastic either, warm human down to earth, playful spontaneous, conversational, relatable, and above all else, nothing that is typical commercial sounding, movie trailer, or announcery at all. So. Milena: All the things, all the things. Anne: All the things. Pilar: In other words, the kitchen sink. Anne: All the things. Totally. And I want to give a big shout out to the queen bee herself, Liz Atherton, and CastVoices for her sponsoring this contest and offering our winners a year pro membership to CastVoices. You guys, castvoices.com, go and get yourself an account. Liz is amazing and always has the voice talents' backs. I'll tell you what, she's amazing. So thank you Liz for that. So let's go ahead and play the warm, human, down to earth, playful, not typical commercial sounding, movie trailer or announcery English winning submission by Joe. Here we go. Joe: Beep. Beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know, you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep. Oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Anne: I love it. Joe: Thank you. Anne: I think that that really took every single spec into consideration. Joe, did you have any particular strategy when you were doing this audition or what is it that you do to prepare for an audition? Because we had so many submissions, but yours just kind of really stood out from the get-go. Joe: Well, thank you so much for that. I really appreciate it. As far as strategy, if it's automotive, I take it extra seriously because it's a big genre. So no matter what it is, even if it's a dealership, you know, it could turn into a long-term gig. So you take it seriously. It's always a challenge, uh, to see if it's a soft sell or if it's a harder sell, more promotional. At the same time, as you say, there's lot to consider in the styles or the trends that we work with today, uh, which are very different from 10, 15, 20 years ago. And that's as far as in general or as far as English. As far as Spanish, obviously my origin is of Castilian Spanish, uh, from Spain. So knowing that this would be for the American market, I tried to modulate that and go to a more neutral read and, and taking the specs into consideration as much as I could and have fun, have fun with it. Anne: Yeah. I think that's so important that you have fun with it. Pilar, comments about why we love Joe so much. Pilar: Listening to it again, I think what, what I really liked about it, this is probably not the right word. It wasn't folksy, but I really felt like I was listening to you, and I was listening to a real person rather than somebody reading it. Anne: Yeah, I agree. Pilar: Like, and just the small pauses, the little giggle -- there were some amazing entries, but what I found so interesting about yours was that you had this attitude from the beginning. You weren't serious, and then you went to the punchline. You had this sort of upbeat throughout the entire read. That's what really stood out for me. Anne: Yeah. Really, really warm smile, I think overall. Joe: Thank you so much. Anne: I just felt like. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Anne: I felt like we were just longtime friends, which we are, but listening to, I felt like we were, and it really, really stood out from the beginning. So congratulations, Joe, again -- Joe: Thank you so much. Anne: -- on that. Joe: I appreciate it. Anne: So onto our winner in the Spanish division, Milena. Milena: Hi. Anne: Tell us a little bit about yourself and where you're located and your VO journey so far. Milena: All right. Well Saludos, hola, hi. Milena Benefiel. I am currently located in Orlando, well, near Orlando, Florida. I am the first generation born here in the US. Both of my parents came over from Cartagena, Colombia, woohoo and they insisted that I learned Spanish as a child, and I never understood why. Why would I ever need this other language? And look at me now, right? My background was actually in television. I worked part-time as a TV host for a Telemundo affiliate in Spanish and did a lot of commercial acting while also being an ER nurse and ICU nurse. I came from entrepreneurial parents who had multiple careers, multiple jobs, 'cause they had to, right, coming from another country. So I don't know how to not have too much on my plate. So this was kind of my side hustle. And after COVID I, I took it from part-time to full-time. I, I was kind of burnt out in the hospital, and yeah, I had the ability to go from sounding very middle America English, as you can hear in my, in my accent to speaking [Spanish] speaking in Spanish that's very neutral. It kind of like people are like, are you Colombian or Cuban or from where? So I've been very fortunate in that that I've been able to provide both sides for my clients. So it's been a really fun journey. Ramesh: Super. Anne: Yeah. Let's have a listen to the winning entry. Here we go. Milena: Bip bip. Ese es el sonido que uso para señalar que este es un comercial de autos mientras que usted podría estar conduciendo en la carretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Bip bip bip bip bip. Vaya, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Yay! Ramesh: Super. Anne: Congratulations again, such a wonderful, warm sound. That's what I really got. And I love how, when we said have fun with this or somebody that doesn't take themselves too seriously, I really felt that in the places where you could -- it opened up to have fun, the more conversational like, "oops, I think my burrito's done." I love the way that you guys brought life to that and brought fun to that that wasn't even as expected. Pilar, your thoughts, Pilar: You had me from the beginning Milena. This was to me displayed so much warmth and reassurance. I felt like when I listen to it, you're taking me by the hand, and you're reassuring me as a consumer that it's gonna be okay. And it's like, oh yeah, I'll do whatever she says. Milena: Wow. PIlar: So that's what I got from this read. It was really, yeah, it was, it was really good read. You just, you got me. Milena: Oh my goodness. Thank you so much. I am so grateful for that feedback. That's kind of my MO when it comes to anything that I do in VO. I just, I, I wanna be warm and caring and reassuring. That's kind of my, my thing. So that you heard that feels so good because it makes me feel like, wow, okay. I'm, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. So thank you so much. Anne: I wanna kind of tag on to what Pilar said. Like for me, I do not speak Spanish, but I could hear the story. If I listen, I could hear your story in there. And when we talk about trusting Toyota, I felt that, and I really felt that you took the words beyond just what was on the page, and really you were in the scene. And like I said, for me to not even speak Spanish but to listen and to be able to hear your storytelling, I thought that that was, that was just really wonderful. So yeah. Milena: Wow. Thank you so much. Such a huge compliment from two women that I admire very much. So this is a very surreal moment for me. So thank you so much. Anne: well deserved. Well deserved. Milena: Thank you. Anne: Okay. So onto our English Spanish combination winner. Ramesh Mahtani yay. Congratulations. Ramesh, tell us a little bit -- Ramesh: Well, thank you very much. Anne: Yeah. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey. Ramesh: Yeah, well, I suppose like most of us over here, very, very varied background. I mean, I was born in Karachi, Pakistan to Indian parents who perhaps were a bit disgruntled with the way things were going out over there, and they decided to move to the Canary Islands. Why, I have no idea, but that takes me back to when I was about four. So I came over here to the islands, speaking a combination of Sindi, of Hindi, of Urdu. Of course I had to learn Spanish rather quickly. And my parents always wanted me to speak English because they knew that English is the lingua franca, and you wouldn't get anywhere in the world without it. So I grew up in an American school over here in the canaries, and I was shipped off to a horrible concentration camp sort of boarding school in England, which was a nightmare. Um, I would spend four long miserable years there, which is I suppose, where I picked up the sort of vestige of an English accent. And then I went to America to do my university degree, which was a lot of fun. And I saw what the real world was like. And I didn't, I suppose, switch on to the American accent because wherever I spoke to were like, oh my God, your accent's so cool. Where are you from? Well, I'm originally from -- Oh my God. Keep on speaking. We just love your accent. So, um, no, I didn't pick up an American accent, I suppose. I just veered towards what, what I call international or neutral. So that's my story. And in voice, I I've always played around with my voice. I love switching accents between -- I speak to my parents with a bit of an -- well, my mom. My father passed away -- with an Indian accent. So it changes depending who I talk to, if it is very strong Indian community, well, it becomes Indian, otherwise it's what I speak now. And then of course, in Spanish and English and French and all these sort of, you know, weird voices going on in my head, it was but natural that I followed a voice over career. So that's what brings me here today, basically. Anne: Wow. Well now you did something interesting with your auditions. You did two takes for both English and Spanish. And so one of the things that stood out to Pilar and I were the fact that you did two different takes for each. And so let's go ahead and play now. Um, I'm gonna click on this one. I'm not sure if this is the English or the Spanish. So hang on one second because the name is, is long. So it's kind of running off my little table here. Ramesh: Sure. Anne: It could be either one. Let's put it that way. There we go. Ramesh: Beep. Beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know, you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep. Oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Beep. Beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know, you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep. Oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Anne: I love it. I wanna just make some comments before we played your Spanish entry. I thought, first of all, you had two completely different takes, and now I understand where the accent came from because you were living in the UK. So I get that now. I was not aware of that, but I really loved it because it really wasn't something that felt to me like it was obviously forced or something that wasn't natural to you. And the fact that you did completely different reads shows just some tremendous acting ability, which I think is any good casting director that can hear that knows immediately that they would be able to direct you to do anything really. And so that was, I thought was really strong about your English entry. And I also liked you had a different reaction and a different emotion about the burrito, which stood out to me, even though it was like a nuanced change. You're like, oh I think my burrito's done. Or Ooh, I think my burrito's done. It really lent a lot to the different reads and the different aspects and the showcasing of your acting abilities. Pilar. Pilar: Yeah. I felt like you were talking to two different people in the two different reads and that was really significant. And it's funny because I didn't realize it, but they were two different accents, and I was like, they sounds so different, and it's, it's like, oh yeah, duh, because he's so versatile. But that also colored the read because one was a little bit more business-like. The other one was a little bit sort of more off the cuff, more warm. And so it was really interesting to see them together, but they are very different reads, so yeah, that's great. Ramesh: Well, thank you. Thank you very much. I suppose one of the underlying elements is that I try and make sure that I'm not trying to sell in this case, sell the car, but just say, tell the story, uh, as something that we will often talk about in voiceover direction. As soon as it sounds sort of salesy, you know, you're going the wrong direction. So spice it up, you know, conjure up some magic, just make it sound as if as Pilar said, you know, you're just basically off the cuff having a conversation with someone, without sell, buy this car sort of thing, you know, which we definitely do not want to go there. Anne: And you know, I don't know if you guys noticed, but in the middle of that script, the sentences were a little bit long. You know how we always get a script and if it's a really lovely, wonderfully written script, we're like, oh yes, it's so easy to voice. We gave you something specifically that may not have been so easy to voice in navigating a long sentence. So. Ramesh: Ah, you did it purposely. Anne: Yeah. All of you handled that so well, so kudos on that. I mean, I'm used to doing that because you do a lot of long format narration and coaching my students, there's always unwieldy sentences. And to make it sound truly conversational and you know, as if you're talking to one person or talking to us, you gotta know your rhythm, you gotta kind of know, you gotta put yourself in the scene and understand where those pauses, where the commas are, even if they don't exist. Ramesh: Yeah. I realize, I thought, my gosh, who's written this, because it is, there was a part where it got really wordy and thought, you know, you have to navigate that. Pilar: Those were the traps and none of you fell into it. Anne: Yes. You know, we are teachers . Exactly. Yes. Always a teacher, just saying so, so congratulations. All right. So let's play, uh, the Spanish entry, which again, you did two reads, which were different. So here we go. Ramesh: Soy Ramesh Mahtani. Bip bip. Ese es el sonido que uso para señalar que este es un comercial de autos mientras que usted podría estar conduciendo en la carretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Bip bip bip bip bip. Vaya, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Bip bip. Ese es el sonido que uso para señalar que este es un comercial de autos mientras que usted podría estar conduciendo en la carretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Bip bip bip bip bip. Vaya, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Anne: Yay. Ramesh: I suppose I'll just caveat, uh, the accent there. I mean like Joe, I live in Spain and sometimes if my client's in mainland Spain, I would do a Castilian accent, but I put on a sort of neutral and general Latin American accent for those, which is similar to the Canarian accent. Anne: Yeah. I was gonna just ask you about that. And one thing that I wanted to point out, which I thought was super strategic, because you did the two takes, you immediately went into your second take to call the attention of like -- Pilar and I listened like, oh my gosh, I think it took us a weekend, right, at least, uh, one after the other one after the other. Pilar: Several times too. Anne: Exactly. And the fact that even though, I didn't know, you were having two takes immediately going into that second take was like brilliant because I didn't stop listening. You know, I was just getting ready. Okay. He's finished -- oh no, here he comes with the next one, which I thought was really strategic. And I think if I know you, Ramesh, that was on purpose Ramesh: Would it have been the alternative to have said, take one? Pilar: No. Most people leave a space. Anne: A lot of space. Yeah. Pilar: You don't let the listener down for a second. There's no lag time. Ramesh: Right. Pilar: And that is brilliant. I mean, I'm using that in my auditions now as well. Ramesh: Okay. I've I've always done it that way. Anne: That's smart. Ramesh: I, I seldom send off an audition unless I do two. Pilar: It's wonderful. Ramesh: I usually always do two takes. Anne: Yeah. Ramesh: And I just do them back to back. So as you said, so they don't have a chance to hit the next button. Yeah. Milena: I typically call it out in my slate if I'm going, do two takes, which -- Anne: And that's good too. Milena: -- for most auditions I would do two. Yeah. But I like this. You give them no choice. Give 'em no choice. Anne: Right, right. Just go right into it. I love it. And you went right into that second character too, which I thought was great for that. Now did you have a strategy English versus Spanish? I know you just mentioned that you did more of a neutral Spanish. What was your strategy for those two different reads? Ramesh: For the two Spanish reads? Anne: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Ramesh: Um, just, just variation really. Anne: Yeah. Ramesh: I mean, I just, I would loathe for them to sound similar so the director would've said, ah, you know, this guy's obviously reading the same thing twice in the same way. I, I just do not wanna fall in that trap. So whatever I could do to spice it up or color it to just make them sound different and believable, relatable and conversational, keeping away from the salesy. Anne: Sure. So then let me ask you what's happening in your brain? What's happening? What's the process? Are you putting yourself in a different scene maybe? Ramesh: I've got a different audience and I'm somebody else. Anne: Okay. Ramesh: So either I'm a young sort of rich, youthful sort of business dude, or I'm an older person just wanting to sort of have a nice car. So I, my whole persona changes, maybe it helps being a Gemini. I could switch from one, from one personality to the other, but yeah, definitely. I've gotta change the audience and change the speaker. Both of them. Anne: Oh good. That's a really good tip. I like that. I've always changed the scene, but not necessarily who I was, because I always wanna be conversational and, and tell this story and, and not be salesy as well, but I never thought about changing, let's say I'm a younger Anne, which that would be nice. I like that. Milena: Your voice can be as young as you wanna be. Anne: That's it. There you go. Yeah. I like that. Ramesh: I guess ever since I was a young kid and, and having been moved around so many different places, I perhaps, and this is for something very personal and intimate, and I, and now that it comes up in context, I don't mind sharing it, but I've, I've often struggled to have a proper identity as an -- sometimes I don't even know who I am because I've had to switch and I do often switch, you know, when I speak, as I said, I speak to my mom, I speak to in an Indian sort of way. I speak to the local Canarian dudes out in the street and become totalmente canario; it's a totally different accent. So I'm always switching, switching, switching, switching in the end, to think, you know, oh my gosh, existential crisis, you know, who am I? Anne: That's a, that's really an interesting point. Yeah. Joe: You're a chameleon, Ramesh. Ramesh: I'm a bit of a chameleon. Anne: Absolutely. Ramesh: I'm not Spanish and I'm not English, you know? So it's really weird. Anne: That's very interesting. I always equate that, and again, I'll get maybe a little into it, but I grew up with three brothers. And so being the only girl in the family, I didn't have to share necessarily, but I also didn't have like a sister to kind of like play dolls with or whatever I was gonna be doing. Milena: Same. Anne: So I got really good at my imagination. Ramesh: Yeah. Anne: And playing with my dolls and teaching and talking to them and really putting myself in different scenes with them. And I think that carries through the adulthood. Right, Milena, you mentioned the same thing? Milena: Oh yeah, absolutely. I didn't have a sister growing up. And I also just think like with my parents having the multiple jobs, they were both performers. My whole life has been a performance, and I kind of do the same in my two takes. I go into my lower register in that warm, buttery, soft, like my first take will be -- or exactly what the specs ask for, I'll give you in the first take, and then the next one, I'll kick it up to a little bit of a higher pitch, make myself a little bit younger and I'll be a little wackier, like a little more fun, a little more conversational, and just get a little more crazy with it. Just to add some adlibs and some different things too, just for range. Anne: I think that's great. Do you have more than two personas? I always have two in my pocket, but do you spend time developing, let's say, a third read or a third persona that can give you a different read? I think that's good for the artist in us. Joe: I mean, I, what captivated me about this piece was the invitation to do effects. You don't usually see that in copy, so I thought that was like, ooh, this is gonna be fun. Anne: Yeah. Joe: And then I tried to add layers, do several takes and sort of warm up and then listen to them and see if I can be sprinkling, uh, or adding something. But I do agree that when you kick into another language, it's another dimension of tools and, and tricks that you have. I wasn't privileged to have brothers or sisters. So being lucky enough to grow up with a, a parent of either side, you know, you, you kind of take it for granted when you're a kid, and then you, you grow up and you're like, wow, this is pretty powerful to switch on and off, switch the languages, you know, with all the cultural and the contextual things that come along with each particular one. Totally there with Ramesh on the strange dichotomy that happens and not really knowing who you are or when it's the, uh, what secret service did you say you worked for again? Pilar: No, comment. Milena: I love how he's silent. He's like -- Joe: He's a pro. Milena: If I tell you I'll have to kill you. Ramesh: Well, sorry. Did I, did I talk about a secret service? Joe: I was asking you what secret service you work for, my friend. Anne: I love it. Milena: Crickets, crickets. Anne: Crickets. Secret service. Pilar: Speaking of which, that was one of the things that really struck me about Ramesh's Spanish read is that I heard someone speaking in Spanish with the Spanish language rhythms rather than a translation. And that to me was so important because that not being your first language, and I think that that's really important because like Milena, I mean, I was born in this country, but my parents spoke to me for the first five years of my life in Spanish, but it's technically not the language that, you know, I speak English all the time. So there's something, there's always that strange sort of divide. Like who are you? Are you this? Are you that? And what I really liked about your read was that it was like, I was listening to a Spanish person speaking, not a translation. And that's so important. Everyone is always so concerned with the accent. That really kind of falls by the wayside. Because if you believe in what you're saying, and it has to do with acting, if you're really acting it, how well you speak or how much of an accent you have doesn't really matter. It all falls by the wayside. So that's what to me, what made a very successful bilingual audition. And that's why we picked you, one of the reasons why we picked you as the bilingual audition winner. Ramesh: Oh, thank you. I'm privileged. Thank you very much. Anne: And again, I'll just kind of tack onto what Pilar was saying is both of the Spanish versions of your audition, I could hear the story that you were telling. And again, I listened very carefully, especially in the unwieldy sentences, because that's what I do every day with my students. I'm working on these crazy, long format narration scripts that aren't always written well. And so I would really be listening carefully throughout all the entries for that navigation. And I still felt the story. I felt the rhythm, and I felt the words that needed to come be a little more present in my ear that were important, like the brand name, the fact that you trust Toyota on all of your reads. Believe it or not, listening to all of the entries, that was kind of a key I was listening for, to trust Toyota. And I wanna feel that trust as opposed to trust Toyota. And I really wanted to feel that little nuance of emotion or trust. And I think every single one of you in every one of your English and Spanish gave me that trust feeling and that warm feeling and that kind of having fun with it, especially at the end, and the beeps too. I mean, I like the fact that we gave this script out because of the beep beep and what people did with the beep beep was really telltale, especially in the beginning, if you did something that maybe wasn't a traditional beep beep or you had fun with it, or you just kind of smiled at yourself. I think Joe, you're, right off the bat, you're kind of chuckling a little bit and it just was so warm and I fell in love with that from the beginning and all of your interpretations of the beeping at the front end of that and the back end of that, I loved it. You know, you had fun with it like we asked in the specs. Joe: Well, I was just gonna say Road Runner, you know, I mean, it was irresistible to me. It was irresistible. Ramesh: Absolutely, absolutely. Milena: Yes, that's exactly what I pictured in my head too. Ramesh: Yeah. Milena: That's funny. Ramesh: I think after doing this for, I mean, you know, you're speaking to people who are super professionals. I have great respect for Joe and Milena and Pilar and yourself, Anne, of course. I mean, when you listen to somebody who's just started off and doesn't have much training, that's when you realize, oh my gosh, this is a poorly done audition. But after a while it just becomes intuitive, I think, plus the script lend itself, the beeps, the mic proximity that you can, the burrito whole thing. I mean, what does the burrito have to do with the car sale, for God's sake? So you can do so much with that. You know, you can just, as you said, have fun and the more imagination you have, and the more years of experience you have tucked under your belt, you can do crazy things within parameters, of course. I often don't overthink it because that's usually when it doesn't usually work. It's usually my first and my third take, which are good. Uh, the first one, because I'm just off the bat, I'm fresh and I'm just being really spontaneous. The second seems to be similar to the first ,and the third, usually I've had a bit more time to imagine nuances, and those come out quite magically. So, but yeah, the script was nice. It lent itself to, to having fun and being creative. Milena: I completely agree with that, the instincts, I know Anne, you had asked earlier, you know, what was your method? How did you attack this script? How did we look at the script? And I actually will do a read prior to even reading the specs, just to get my natural inclination of like, okay, I'm looking at the script without overthinking it. Let me just do a read. And then of course looking at the specs, and then kind of picking apart, you know, I listened back to my read and picking apart, what words do we wanna highlight? Like you said, trust, right? The brand, faster and safely, getting there fast and safely. Those are important things, right? Joe: Exactly. Milena: So then I go through with it, but I completely agree with Ramesh, it typically is my first read. And then maybe my third or my fourth. The second one always sounds like the first one, or it's like, so off the wall that it's like, why did I go totally left field on that one? But yeah. I completely agree with you, when you just go with those once you've been doing it for a while, when you try to be someone you're not, it's not authentic. Ramesh: Exactly. Milena: And you can hear it in your read. Joe: Yeah. By family tradition, my parents came from the academic and the publishing world. So script analysis, I put at the top of the list, you know, the top three, because the burrito for example was what invited me not to do it in Castilian. And that was my choice. I thought it was great that you did two takes of each, Ramesh. I, I shied away from the Castilian because I just wanted to have a burrito and, and that's Mexican, and I just -- and it's international by now., yes, but it's traditionally and originally Mexican. And I wanted, I wanted to go there. If you told any person in Spain, you know, burrito just stand alone, they might not get it. If it's contextual, they'll be, oh yeah, yeah, Taco Bell, you know, whatever, but, or Mexican restaurant, but that's, that's the reason I, I shied away from Castilian and I, I made an attempt at my best neutral Spanish. Milena: I had no choice. I don't do Castilian You don't wanna hear me trying to do Castilian accent. Anne: So that brings an interesting question, which I had asked of Pilar early on in our series, about when specs come in for Spanish, is there a strategy? Are specs clear? Do you sometimes have to say, well, is there a particular dialect that you're looking for? What do you guys do? Joe: First and foremost is the market. What market is it hitting? Because if it's a state, it's gonna be 99.9% neutral Spanish. It's very exceptional to do Castilian. I've spent many years living in Spain, and sometimes they call me to do Spanish and Catalan. And for many years they wanted an American accent, even though I don't really have one when I speak normally. So I, I had to kind of impose, impose an accent like this or something like that. You know, you know what I'm saying? Milena: I love it. Being in the US, I think it's kind of less of a question for me. I know Ramesh and Joe are overseas. For me here in the US, typically my specs are always gonna say either neutral Spanish or Latam Spanish, Latin American Spanish. That's 99%. I think I have gotten a couple auditions that have asked for Catalan or Castilian Spanish. And it's very rare, but I am pretty upfront with them that I'm like, you're not gonna be happy with my read, if you want me to try to pull one of those off. But yeah, I think for me over here in the States, it's almost always, it's gonna be neutral or, or Latin American Spanish, which is what I do. And I can put a little bit more of that Paisa, you know, Colombian accent on it, if they're asking specifically for Latin American, but yeah. Ramesh: I've had a very strange situation with many of my castings in Spanish. I've booked jobs. And then they come to me and say, you're not Spanish, are you? I said, they say, you sound very Spanish, but by your name, we had doubts. And a few times they're, they're brave enough to say that. Anne: Yeah. Ramesh: They're like, your name sounds Indian or Pakistani. I'm like, well, it is. What you want do about it? Milena: What you want? Ramesh: You bookedme. You, you booked me, you liked my audition, but are you just curious? You just wanna start a conversation over here? And, and I struggle with that. And the same thing with my English, like, oh, this guy's Indian. He probably, he doesn't have a proper English accent. I'm like, well, so I stopped trying to be very British at one point, and I said, well, I'm international English. I mean, what can I say? Yes, I'm Indian. I can't, I could change my name. And at one point I tried to go as Robert Martin, but I thought it just sucks. Joe: No, you should be Pepe Mahtani. Ramesh: Pepe Mahtani de las islas canarias... so, yeah. So that's another sort of strange one, but like Joe's, But I mean, I also do a lot of times they, they ask you to do a span with the English accent. So you have to do what they, what the client wants and you hope they're happy. Joe: You have to. You have to. Ramesh: You have to. Pilar: You have to. Ramesh: Yes. Milena: Oh my goodness. Ramesh: Without a doubt. Milena: Ramesh, that did strike me. Remember, our first conversation. That's what I said. I said, I'm completely blown away. As soon as I saw your name, I was like, well, he's not Spanish or American. [indistinct] Ramesh: No, I totally understandable, yeah. It's like, where are you from? [speaking Spanish] Milena: Cómo puede ser, pero no entiendo. [banter in Spanish] Joe: For me, it's the same, Joe Lewis. Right? You know, talking in Spanish, like, come on. This is -- Pilar: You could be José Luís. Joe: Ridiculous, ain't it? Milena: José Luís. Joe: José Luís, exacto. Ramesh: Whenever I speak to Joe, whenever I, the first thing I tell him, when we get on the phone is like, hello, Mr. Joe Lew-is. . Joe: I try to do my best Southeast Asian for Ramesh because I love him so much. Ramesh: Listen, all my white friends who try and do an Indian accent are just terrible at it. You guys suck big eggs because you cannot do an Indian accent. Even Mr. Peter Sellers, who I have great respect for in the movie "The Party," he also did not pull out a decent Indian accent. I'm sorry. It's crap. Joe: A thousand apologies. But I do -- I do this with, with love. I do this with love. I promise you. Ramesh: Joke around. Anne: Oh my goodness. Ramesh: You can joke around because we are good friends, but your Indian accent, I'm sorry, is not very convincing. Joe: Totally. Totally agreed. Anne: Oh my goodness. Well, you guys -- Milena: Friends don't let friends go around with terrible accents. Anne: There you go. There you go. Joe: Precisely. Anne: So I wanna ask each of you, what would be your best tip? Like how do you market yourself as -- like people that are coming in to the industry now, if they're bilingual, what best tips can you give us to market yourself as a bilingual voice talent? Joe: I've spent many years trying to equate both. I have them at the same level, both languages. It was a thing of responsibility. That's a big R word, responsibility. And this was instilled through my parents directly and indirectly. So I was very lucky with that. It all went astray when, uh, a number of years ago, I started to get requests from clients to do accents that are not my natural accents. Oh, I wait, are you sure? I'm like, yes, no, please. And then you do it and they love it. And like, Hmm, well, maybe there's something here. Maybe, maybe it's a thing. So you can never sleep in your laurels. You can never get too comfortable. You can never get too overconfident because it's like music. I come from music. It's ultimately unattainable. You're not gonna finish it. Just keep on pumping. That's what you can do. That's my best advice. Keep on pumping. Ramesh: 100%. Milena: I guess before this interview, we talked about this a little bit. I actually shied away from doing Spanish when I first started, despite me literally being on Telemundo, right? like having my own segment in Spanish. I always was a little bit insecure about my Spanish, and I would get requests to do things both English and Spanish, and producers kept telling me like, you've got something here. You've gotta do -- when you can offer both sides, it's more efficient. It's mutually beneficial for you and the client. You've really gotta push this. And I did. So I try to -- and I'm trying to get better at it -- I try to, when I'm posting things, say to social media, or, you know, whenever I'm doing things, I'm trying to do more showing the spots that I do in English and in Spanish so that people can see both sides, especially right now. There's this huge shift in the last few years here, that is this huge push for diversity, huge push for bilingualism, especially with Spanish in the US. And I don't know if you guys are seeing things over there too, or internationally, 'cause of course I just know here in the US, but there's this really big push. So I've been very, very fortunate in that everyone that I connect with, as soon as I mention that I'm bilingual, they then mention that to somebody else. So my biggest tip would be let people know. Don't do what I did for the first, you know, five years and shy away from that. Practice it. And if you don't feel as confident in that second language, which I didn't, start reading books out loud, watching movies, speaking -- I told my parents do not speak to me in English. We're speaking in Spanish, and I would read technical things so that it would be more difficult, you know, words that I didn't use in conversation, and just let people know, but plaster it everywhere and make sure everyone knows. Anytime I send an audition on say Voice 123, 'cause I do use that as a pay to play in addition to my agents and other things, anytime, even if it's an English audition only, I always, always, always write, hey, and if you ever think about hitting the Hispanic market, I also speak neutral Spanish. Please go to my website and here's my stuff. Even if it's only an English spot, I always let people know. And you know what? 50% of the time, they come back to me and say, you know what? We posted a separate for the Spanish. We'll just go with you for both of them. So whatever language that is that you're in, use it. And even if you don't think they'll ever use you in -- let people know, 'cause they're not gonna know unless you tell them, right? So that is my biggest piece of advice is just brag on yourself, man. Let 'em know. Joe: And if I may quote Jaco Pastorias, the great late bass player, it ain't bragging if you can back it up. Milena: Heyo. Ramesh: Absolutely. Anne: Ramesh, your thoughts? Ramesh: Yeah. Well, I think in my case, I was speaking to Joe about this actually a few, a few days back, it, it's very market specific. I mean I live in Spain and I don't really market myself to Spanish clients in Spanish, I suppose because I know there's, there's a whole plethora of Spanish voice artists here. Why would they necessarily go to me? So they come to me for English and as Milena said, once they come to me for English, then I'd bring out the Spanish. I'm like, here you go. I can do it in Spanish for you. Oh great. That saves us so much trouble and hassle finding somebody who can do it in Spanish. And likewise with international clients that I book in English, you know, I tell them I, I can do the Spanish, but I think you, as Milena said, you have to let it be known that you can do both and do whatever you're good at. If you're good at corporate, well, sell yourself at corporate and be even better at corporate, and then perhaps branch out to something that you may want to aspire to. If you wanted to do some animation in Spanish, you've never done that before, get coaching, but focus on your strengths and build your strengths and be really confident that my strong piece is this. And I can promote that openly and confidently, because confidence is, is 90% of the game. If they see that you say I can do Spanish for you as well. And you know, you don't have a belief in yourself, it's gonna seep through. I mean, I do French voicing, but I tell the clients, I'm not a native French speaker. I've got a very good accent, but it's not native. And I try and pull it off because I have confidence that I can do it. Joe: I totally agree. We don't read minds. And I, I was in a corporate multinational advertising agency for a while, and bilingualism in the States is a really important thing. I mean, I don't know what you think, Ramesh, if you agree with me, but for certain reasons, I think there's more of a bilingual ambient in the States than there is in Spain. 'Cause Spain is too busy with politics and they're busy with co-official languages. They're not dialects, they're official languages like Catalan, Gallego, or Galician and, and Basque. And the, the thing is that, uh, because of the way English is taught in Spain and, and because of dubbing, this is the reason why English is not a second nature, uh, language in Spain. So you always have to have client education in mind in the good sense to try to explain to them because they may not read your mind. They may not understand to what level you are in the other language. It's not easy. I mean, it's, we live in a world that is very multiplied because of social media. And you know, I see this from the musician standpoint, again, you know, the advent of pop star. You do a 3000 line casting. You, you get in, you're on TV, it's instant stardom. I mean, there's a lot of ways to get known really quickly and dramatically in this world. And a lot of people are strutting their stuff. So it's a complicated thing to market yourself effectively. It's not just marketing, and here I would like Anne to take over on the marketing thing because you're a master at this, but it's a really important question, what you ask. How do you market yourself in English and Spanish effectively and be taken seriously? You know? Anne: Well, I mean spoken by the guy who has the bilingualvoiceover guy.com, right? I mean me@thebilingualvoice -- so that I'll tell you, right in your URL, you're advertising, and you've got multiple URLs. And I know that, you know, all of you on your websites are focusing or you have the fact that you are bilingual. And I think that's number one, I mean, in this online world and Pilar, I know does an exorbitant amount of not just bilingual voiceover, but also dubbing. So Pilar, any specific, additional tips that we haven't talked about that maybe you could offer as advice to, let's say, bilingual voiceover talent that are coming into the industry now? Pilar: Um, well a lot has been said about it. When I first started in the industry, in voiceover, I was encouraged not to do a bilingual voiceover demo for example by a very, very well known coach here that Anne and I both know who shall remain nameless who said, absolutely. You never mesh the two together. Milena: I've been told that too. Pilar: You have Spanish on one side and English on the other. So I did, not with them. And so then I, I was like, okay. So I went with somebody else. I did it, Spanish, English, fine. And then I thought, no, I'm gonna go ahead and do a bilingual voiceover demo. And I did, and that is one that's booked me so many jobs. The other one is really good. The other two that I did, the Spanish and English and it, my agents prefer me separating them. So that's fine. But the Spanglish one is what has booked me so many jobs. And so for somebody starting out, I think it's just important to keep at it, just to keep putting yourself out there. And also you never know what the client's gonna ask. I just, I find it so hysterical that I get booked for something. We'll do it in English. We'll do it in Spanish. And then they'll say, well, can you just give us a little accent? I'm like, you're kidding, right? And I don't have an accent in either. I mean, in Spanish, I always think I do, but I don't. I know I don't, it's just, it's so minuscule, but they're like, can you just make it a little bit more for us? And then in English, can you just give us a little bit more, a little thicker? I'm like, okay, fine. If that's what the client wants, that's what the client gets. So I think that the key is to be elastic and to say, yes, I can do this. I can do this. Never say no. A lot of times I've come up against artists who sit there, and they say, oh, well, I passed on that because I can't do it. And I was like, well, why can't you do it? Well, I didn't, I didn't think I could. Well, if you don't think you can, then you're not gonna be able to. Right. Exactly. So always be available and let the person who is casting see if you're right for it or not. And you know, keep putting yourself out there, no matter what. Milena: I wanted to ask, 'cause this is the question that I have and I think maybe some that are coming in would appreciate an answer to this -- in the US, the majority of my buyers are speaking English, right, whether they want Spanish or not. Now I do work with buyers that speak Spanish, but the majority of them are in English. So I've struggled with the decision to make my website, do a Spanish website, all Spanish website, or just an all English website. So I've chosen to do an all English website that says I'm bilingual and I'm gonna have an about me page that's just in Spanish, just my about me page. And I just wanted to get your feedback on that, 'cause I think that's a question that a lot of people have coming in as well. Like do I need to have these two separate entities like I have for my demos? Or like I said, for me, the majority of my buyers speak English regardless whether their client is or they -- their primary language may be Spanish, but my buyers are usually in English. Pilar: So this might sound a little radical. Milena: I like it. Anne: Already. Pilar: I'm not thinking about who my buyers are. I'm thinking about me. And if I go, and I did this, 'cause I had two separate websites 'cause I actually followed what this person said to me at first, and I had an English website and I had a Spanish website. And all that does is dilute you. That does nothing for your SEO, does nothing for the persona. And if you're talking about branding, for me, this did not work. It might work for other people, but I just park everything in one place and I have different categories. That's just me. Milena: Perfect. I like it. Pilar: And that has worked better. I think it's worked better in consolidating everything because at one time I had like three different websites. It was just crazy. And it just diluted -- Milena: It's a lot to manage. Yeah. Pilar: Exactly. Joe: I mean, Milena, you could put a tab -- you could have your website in English and then put a little tab of in Spanish and then they can click, and then they'll, they'll go to that same site, and you'll have it all translated into Spanish. What I'm not an expert is an SEO and how it behaves looking at a, at a site in one language and if it can complement SEO ratings on the same site. So just because I could, I have the Bilingual Voiceover Guy, but I have both Voces Bilingue, and right now I'm redirecting them. But the idea is to have Voces Bilingue in Spanish and then have it linked to the English one. Anne: And then Joe, you have a page on your, the Bilingual Voiceover Guy, English that also is translated in Spanish, correct? Joe: Yes, because I hadn't had this thing that I just talked about yet. That, that, that was a sort of a patch in the meantime. And funny enough, that page is what's ranking. Anne: I was just gonna say that, if you have that page, if it's all in Spanish, because if somebody doesn't speak English, and they're typing a search term in Spanish, that would match your page, your landing page. And it still comes to your central, you know, I call it the central website, but you've just got another page. Yeah, a separate tab, a landing page. And I think that's a really good strategy that you'll be able to capture the best of both SEO worlds. Yeah. Pilar: Yeah. The tab is essential. Joe: Yeah. The tab, mm-hmm. Anyway, I mean, my thing is work in progress too, but the way I choose to think is that there's 2 billion English speakers, and there's 600,000 Spanish speakers. So that's a market of 2.6 billion. Anne: Yeah. Joe: For each one of us. And sky's the limit. Pilar: Absolutely. Anne: Ramesh, how do you work your website? Do you have a special page dedicated? Ramesh: I just have it in English actually. I think that's, that's definitely something I need to work on to see how I can, but I've -- to be absolutely honest, I'm quite happy with the level of work that I've got right now. So -- Milena: If it ain't broke. Ramesh: -- smooth sailing, I don't wanna sound arrogant, but I'm comfortable. So I, I could perhaps do all these lovely suggestions that you guys have come up with, but perhaps another time. Anne: Well, I don't have another language page, but I have literally four other genre specific pages like website, because I specialize in corporate narration or I specialize in e-learning. So I have the e-learningvoice.com. I have medical-narration.com, phone voice. And so even though I may not get a ton of activity on those sites, the words on those sites get indexed, and it contributes to my SEO. And each of those sites also maps back to my core site, which I think is my core brand of AnneGanguzza.com in addition to my VO BOSS and VO Peeps brands. So I handle probably 11 sites. Pilar: That's next level marketing. Go to AnneGanguzza.com for next level marketing, that's, that's that's our next, our next job. Anne: But yeah, it just helps to be found and it kind of just works on its own. And every once in a while I do have, as a matter of fact, I'm looking to refresh those pages just to make sure they keep generating people, pointing at my website. And again, it's a wonderful position to be in. If you have a, a good amount of work, I think that's amazing. Then things are working for you. And so that's why your advice and everything we're talking about today is so valuable for people that are coming into this industry. So we thank you, guys, so much for joining us. Milena: Thank you for this contest -- Joe: Thank you for having us. Milena: -- and this swag. Hello! Ramesh: Thank you for having us. Anne: I know. So yeah, I do wanna mention the swag. So not only did you guys get, uh, thank you again to Liz Atherton, but also you guys got BOSS swag, which Pilar and Milena are wearing right now. Ramesh: Yeah. Mine's on the way. It'll be here in about next -- Anne: Which it is on the way. As a matter of fact, I will tell you because you're on that little island there, Ramesh, it might take a little longer to get you. Milena: It's gonna come by carrier pigeon. Ramesh: Keep on looking at the skies to make sure the drones are dropping in. Anne: I can't wait to see pictures of you in that t-shirt. Ramesh: Oh, I will. Anne: And Joe with your mug. That's awesome. So. Ramesh: I love it. Super. Anne: You guys, amazing job. Thank you so much. It's been, this has been so wonderful, and we thank you for sharing your wisdom with us, and yeah, I wanna do this like now every six months. Milena: Down for it. Anne: Think we should -- Joe: -- amazing. Anne: You know, right? Ramesh: It would be pleasure. Anne: So what's been going on in six months in the bilingual world? So yeah. Awesome. Well guys, I'm gonna give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You guys can connect and network like we have on ipDTL. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also I will say that this was recorded today with Riverside. So I'm extremely happy to have given this a try, and thanks for the wonderful video and audio tracks that we're going to get. And one more sponsor, 100 Voices Who Care. If you want to use your voice to make an immediate difference and give back to the communities that give to you, find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. Thanks, guys, so much for joining us again. It's been amazing and we'll see you next week. Ramesh: Thank you very much. Joe: It was lovely. Milena: Thank you. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne & Pilar are casting directors! Or at least they were for the first ever #VOBOSS Bilingual Audition challenge. They share the common mistakes, honorable mentions, and (of course) the winners! Tune in to sharpen your auditioning skills & learn what the audition selection process is really like. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with the one and only amazing special guest co-host Pilar Uribe. Hey Pilar. How are you? Pilar: Hola todos. ¿Cómo están hoy? Anne: Hola. So Pilar, I'm super excited today because a few weeks back we launched the VO BOSS Spanish bilingual audition challenge. Woohoo! Like it was our first bilingual audition challenge that I've ever seen actually and conducted. And I'm super excited because we sent out the casting first of all through our good friends over there at CastVoices, Liz Atherton and the team over there at CastVoices. We sent out this audition through their system, and we also sent an email to all of you BOSSes out there. And we also published far and wide on social media. So let's talk a little bit about what the specs were for this audition challenge. So the specs were, it could be male, female, non-binary, age range from 25 to 65. So the purpose of this audition challenge was primarily for educational purposes. And so we cast the net far and wide. Our specs were for male, female, and non-binary, age range from 25 to 65. So our specs also wanted to grab a diverse range of voice talent. The voice should be confident, knowledgeable, we have a lot of adjectives here, optimistic, never take themselves too seriously, but at the same time don't come off as sarcastic either, warm, human, down-to-earth, and playful. Their delivery is conversational, relatable, and above all else nothing that is typical commercial sounding ,movie trailer, or announcery at all. Sounds pretty common to me, those specs, right, Pilar? . Pilar: Yeah. And, and the thing is, is that a lot of the times you get just this three paragraphs worth of specs, 'cause they, they want to really throw the kitchen sink in. And the casting directors, they're looking for something. So they're trying to be as helpful as possible. Anne: Yes. Pilar: And sometimes as voice actors, we go, oh my gosh, they gave us so much. Anne: Sometimes it's not helpful. Pilar: Really and truly -- yeah, well right. But they're trying to give you as much information as possible -- Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: -- so you can make your creative choices. Anne: Absolutely. We also specified that talent should read both Spanish and English versions with or without a specific regional accent. And we were going to judge on performance. We wanted two separate MP3s delivered and labeled and named in a particular fashion. And also what else did we specify? Oh, it needed to be uploaded to a Dropbox location that we had set up for the challenge. Pilar: Well, and I think we were very conscious of what we do on a daily basis. I mean the auditions that come in from my agents are very, very similar to that. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: So we wanted to make it as close to a real audition as possible. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: And you get this list of things that you need to look at and you need to look at all the aspects of the audition. Anne: Absolutely. We also gave some references. So if people wanted to learn some more, we pointed back to a couple of episodes that you and I did about bilingual on the VO BOSS podcast. And very exciting, we have prizes. So we are going to be selecting today three winners. We are going to select the best English audition, the best Spanish audition, and the best English and Spanish combined. So the prizes are going to be an amazing choice of swag from the VO BOSS shop. And also thank you so much to, again, our friends over there at CastVoices and Liz Atherton, a one year CastVoices pro membership, courtesy of Liz and CastVoices. So very excited about that. All right. So let's talk overall what we thought about the contest and how it went. And actually we gave, I think it was almost two weeks we gave. The due date was to -- Pilar: Mm-hmm. Anne: -- have everything submitted by 6:00 PM Pacific on April 15th. And we took that very seriously because that gave you almost two weeks to submit. We did have some people that submitted a couple, and I was okay with that. Normally that's not how it works in the audition process. You wanna get your audition in probably sooner if you can, rather than later, but because this was an educational experiment, an educational process, I said it was okay to upload alternate files as long as they were in by the due date. So let's talk about the good, the bad and the ugly Pilar: Oh yeah. Anne: Let's start with the ugly. I'm just gonna say, we could probably say it together. One of the biggest things was not following directions. I mean, everything from uploading to the wrong spot and the one that you kept catching. So I know you're gonna say no slate. We requested a slate, and there was so many people that did not have a slate. And that made a difference if it came between two close contestants. So it did make a difference. Not auditioning for both spots. And I'm gonna say the ugly would be ugly audio because people didn't have a good recording environment. There might have been noise. People might have been -- noise in the background. I heard like some whirring and hissing and I don't even know, people plosive-ing on the mics. Pilar: Or they were different levels. Anne: Yep. Different levels. Pilar: One was really loud. The other one was way softer. Anne: Exactly. So yeah. What was ugly for you? Pilar: So for me, the reason why we did this was really, we wanted to simulate what a real audition is like. And the whole slating thing is just, I've been in webinars where they say, well, it doesn't really matter anymore. It really does. And I get probably, on any given day, let's say, I'll get 10 auditions, five of them say, please slate your name when you send in your MP3. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And that's one thing and it's into highlighted. And then the other way it comes in is do not slate anywhere on your file, in bold letters, capitalized, highlighted. So the direction was, and it was really simple, just slate your name. Anne: Right. Pilar: And of -- we had 110 auditions, almost half -- Anne: I think it was 120, yeah. Pilar: 120? Anne: Yeah, okay, so half of them. Pilar: So almost half of them -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- came without a slate. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So that is just glaring because obviously people were quick to rush. Other things that we got, which weren't really necessary -- and I will tell you, because my agents in LA are a little bit more forgiving, but the agents in New York, they are very clear on their auditions that if you don't do it exactly the way they say, they are just not submitting you. Anne: Yeah. If you can't follow directions, then it's very likely that you can't follow direction. Pilar: Right. Anne: Get it? Pilar: And -- exactly. And so when it says, like your name, you slate your name. Don't slate your hometown, don't slate -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- your email address. When you label -- and this is something that is, you know, you copy and you paste it. You don't try to sit there and memorize it. The reason I say this too is because as a voice actor, I saw a lot of mistakes that I have been guilty of at some point. So it was actually a real learning experience for me to go, oh, okay. Once I have done my audition, I've edited it, and I've checked all these things, I -- and I've been doing this for a while, but it really makes me understand that I have to have an eagle ear -- I go and I put it in a file. I go away, I take my headphones off, and then I come back to it and I listen to it as an MP3. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: Because you can't trust your ears. And a lot of the times there are things that just, they don't correlate. So if it says, slate your name, you slate your name. And when you label, you label the way they're asking you to label. So you have to check and recheck your audition because here's the thing about auditions. Auditions are the job. This is what we do. This is what I do every day. The gigs are the hobby, and the gigs are wonderful, but really it is the job. And so if you are submitting to your agent, they need to know that you're serious. They need to know that you're gonna be able to send your auditions the way they asked you to send them. Anne: Mm-hmm. absolutely. Pilar: Because this is not a dress rehearsal. It's not something that you just slap together. It's better not even to send it in, if you're just gonna kind of do it in this sort of half-baked way. Anne: That's such a good point. What happens is, especially if you're sending to your agent, I think that if you become a person and they -- you get a lot of auditions from your agent and you submit all the time -- if you're constantly not following directions, that agent remembers it. And whether or not they mention that to you, I'm sure they will at some point, but it just sticks in their brain. It sticks in my brain when you don't follow directions, because I'm like, ah, that would was a great read, but they didn't name it right. Or I lost it; where did it go? If they had named it right, I would find it. What was that audition that was so good? Or they didn't slate. Oh yeah. What was that guy? So really it becomes something that sticks out in a way that maybe is not as positive as you'd like. And the next time you're asked to submit an audition, I think it just becomes something that gets stuck in their memory. Then it becomes like, well, again, they forgot to slate, or again, they didn't name the file correctly, so now I've gotta go and fix it here on my system. So that just really stands out, I think if you cannot follow directions. And again, if you can't follow directions, it leads me to think that you cannot follow direction either, so. Pilar: Well, and here's the thing that it's even more serious because it's your category, and it's one audition. They're probably dealing with 30 auditions on any given day -- Anne: If not more, right? Exactly. Pilar: Yeah. But let's just put 30 as a, let's just say 30 auditions on one given day. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: So let's say they are submitting five of their best people, but they're sending it out to 50 people for each audition. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: They don't have time to sit there and email you back and say, you did not slate. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Pilar: Or you did something or, or there was a mistake here. They're just not gonna submit you the next time. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: They're not gonna tell you because the whole thing is on you. You have to be proud of the fact that you are -- this is -- it's a craft; auditions are a craft. And so it's like, you're giving like a little mini performance. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: Because you're basically saying to the person who's hearing on the other end, I can do what you asked me to. Anne: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Pilar: So you have to make sure that it, it is all in place because if you ask them, because I have. I mean, at the very beginning, when I first started working with my agents and I wasn't booking and I, so I asked them, and they gave me some really constructive criticism. And so I went and I studied more with some specific people, and then I started booking, but they're not gonna sit there and say, oh well, you didn't slate and you keep not slating. And we can't submit you. They're just gonna ignore you. Anne: Everything contributes, everything contributes to it. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: So it, it's so important. For everybody who slated, thank you. And for everybody who followed the directions, thank you. But for the people who didn't, just remember that there's more than one pair of ears listening. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Pilar: And so for the next time, make sure that you've crossed your T's and dotted your I's when you send submissions in. Anne: I mean, every time when people are asking casting directors, what are the worst things you can do when you submit an audition? Pilar: What's your pet peeves, yeah. Anne: And that is not following directions. Now, the other thing I noticed for the ugly was the bad audio. So, you know, it's unfortunate. It is part of the business though; you do have to have a good studio or a great studio where you can produce quality audio. And if you have bad audio and, and it becomes between you and another person who had it, maybe an equally great read, I'm gonna pick the person that has the good studio or the, the studio. Because I cannot guarantee, let's say, even though you may not have the best studio sound, that you're gonna be able to come into the studio and then execute by tomorrow, if that's when I need the spot to be done. So you really have to invest in figuring out how to get the best quality audio out of your studio. Pilar: And just, it's so important to note that having the best quality studio does not mean you have to spend $5,000. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: Because what they're looking for to be able to submit to the client, what they're looking for is clean audio. It does not have to be a $10,000 studio, a $10,000 booth. It has to be clean. So there's, there are parameters that you have to follow in terms of getting that -65 DB noise floor. It's not hard, but it just takes work. And you have to be able to put in the time and find out how to get that quality. Anne: Well, the cool thing is is that once you get it set up, usually you don't have to change it. It's not like you're gonna have to improve it afterwards. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: And there's a lot of really wonderful audio engineers out there that can help you. They don't have to come to your house. Pilar: And they don't have to cost an arm and a leg either. Anne: They don't, but they're very well worth -- Pilar: There's some great people out there. Anne: They're very well worth the investment of getting that sound to be in tiptop shape. Pilar: Yeah. Yes. Because once you have it, then you've got it forever. I, yeah, absolutely. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: Good point. Anne: And that's, and it's done, you know, set and done. So let's talk about, okay, that was the ugly. There might be more if we, if we wanna talk about it more, but I'm gonna go into the bad now, which is not quite as ugly, but the bad is -- so let's think about this. Probably 90% of the time for a commercial read these days, we are being asked for conversational, nothing, typical commercial sounding or announcery. Pilar: Mm-hmm. Anne: Honest to God. Every time I see it, it's like nothing that sounds commercially. So I think that for a lot of you, it's hard to hear yourselves because I think what you're trying to do is sound like you're conversational, and you're not actually acting, and you're not actually in a scene and being conversational. So I'm just gonna say that it's not bad. It's just that you need to develop that ear. You need to really put in the hours for getting yourself as best as you can be in the scene, acting it out so that it's believable and it's authentic. And the thing is, is that when you listen to 200 auditions, it is very obvious which ones are sounding authentic and genuine, and which ones are just trying to sound conversational, and of course those that are being announcery. So it becomes very evident to the ear when you listen to it. And I think when we reveal some of the winners, you're gonna hear that as well. So I'm just gonna say maybe not the bad, but I think everybody always, it is our job to be good at what we do and to be able to bring that copy to life in the way that the director wants to. And so to get my ear, the casting director's ear, if you can show me that you can act, I'm gonna hire you because then if I want you to sound commercially, it's a piece of cake. And a lot of times that might be what you hear on the television. But the fact is is that when you're auditioning, you gotta show me that you can act, and that's the audition that I'm gonna pick. Pilar: And the thing is when you know, people will say, well, what do I do? Where do I go? And coaching is so expensive and this and this and that. Well, it does take work, and it does take learning, but here's the thing. YouTube and iSpot TV are your best friends. Anne: Mm, I'm gonna disagree with you there. Pilar: Why? Anne: Because yes, you can go and listen to the commercials. But again, if the end result is being directed to sound commercially, it's not necessarily gonna help you not sound commercially. Pilar: No, but I'm talking about getting an ear for what is being heard on the radio. For example, if you don't know what it sounds like for, let's say a Ford commercial, you go and you look up a Ford commercial. It's like, when you don't know something, you go and you look it up. If you're auditioning, like, let's say you don't know what a microwave sounds like. You go and you look up, what does a microwave sound like? How can I experiment with how a microwave sounds like? Let me play with it. 'Cause that's what we saw, what we heard in these reads, people who were willing to take a little chance and people who were willing to sort of put some of their personality in there. That's what I mean in terms of doing research for trying to figure out, well, what is it, if I don't really know what it is -- go listen and also study. Absolutely. But there's always research to be done when you are voicing something that you might not be super familiar with. Anne: I will agree with you there. If you're not familiar with the brand, I would absolutely go and do a Google search of the brand. And I'm gonna just say, I'm gonna be very careful listening to other commercials on YouTube and or iSpot. Some of them are amazing, but some of them are not -- if they're ask for a particular style of a read, just be careful. Because not everything that you hear on TV is conversational. And so if the specs are asking for that, then make sure that you go and find something that sounds conversational and not commercial. And if you are new to the industry, I would recommend that you get some coaching to help you with that, to help develop your ear. I think you should consider it to be an investment in your business. And I'm not saying this because I'm a coach. I'm really not. I just know that the longevity of this profession, you learn it's a marathon, not a sprint. Over the years, I've studied, I've coached and I've developed an ear. And I think that that is something that doesn't happen overnight. And so you really have to go and study, Google and make sure you're listening to good commercials and great actors and invest in a coach. And I'm not saying you need to invest in a coach for 10 years, but I think even the best still hit up coaches so that they can continue to be their best. All right. So, and now for the really good, now we're going to announce the winners of each category. So let's start with the winner for English, and the winner is....Joe Lewis. Yay, Joe. Let's play his winning audition. Joe: Beep beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep -- oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Anne: Yay. Congratulations, Joe Lewis. So let's talk about what we liked about Joe's audition. I'll start with saying, I really liked his warm tone. I thought that it was really friendly and super conversational. Pilar: Yeah, absolutely. I will say he did not slate... but his audition was so good, and he made me feel sort of like, oh wow. He made me feel warm. That's what his voice made me feel. Anne: Yeah, me too. Pilar: And that, and that's so important -- Anne: Me too. Pilar: -- when you're listening to any kind of commercial, when you're listening to a voiceover, if they make you feel something -- Anne: I was just gonna say that, yes. Pilar: Then you know that you have reached that person. You've reached that, you know, it's like you've gone through the sound and through the, through the computer, through the cyberspace, and you've reached that person, 'cause you're like, oh yeah, okay. This is, this is cool. I, I, I could trust this person. Anne: Yeah. Such a good point because that is exactly how I felt when I listened to it. And when I listened to it for the first time, I immediately went, oh it wasn't like, oh I love the sound of that. I love the way he did this particular. I mean, there's lots of aspects of it that I love, but it was the feeling that I was left with, and that is gold, pure gold. So yeah, if you can just listen to an audition or listen to a spot and you are able to feel something about it, then I think that is, that is the money, that is the money read. So yeah. Congratulations. And I loved how at the end he really kind of had a different tone, a change of tone. He kind of brought his voice down like, oh it was a secret about the burrito. So I liked his ending burrito. Awesome. All right. So now there were so many good reads that we also decided to award an honorable mention for the English category, and we think you're gonna really enjoy her read too. So the honorable mention in English goes to....Sofia Zita. Congratulations, Sofia. Let's play her audition. Sophia: Beep beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep -- oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Anne: Oh gosh. So I love Sophia's beep that like that struck me from the beginning. I just thought it was really cute. And I'm gonna say at the very end, like she did something, she went off mic. She did an off mic technique for her burrito, which I thought was super creative and super fun. And I thought that her personality, while I thought there were some places in, you know, maybe her first couple sentences where it may not have the flow of a conversational English, her personality just shown so brightly through it that I couldn't help but smile when listening to her. So again, it evoked a feeling out of me, and that pretty much just said, yep. She needs to get an honorable mention for that. So great work on that, Sophia. What are your thoughts? Pilar: I felt like she was talking right to me. I felt like she was standing right next to me talking to me from the get-go. And I was like, oh wow. It's like, she was right there next to me. I don't know it just, again, it gave me this warm feeling inside, and I was like, okay. Yeah. Anne: Yeah. So that really unique beep and that off mic technique really grabbed me at the beginning and at the end too. Pilar: Yep. Anne: So it made her pretty memorable. Pilar: Mm-hmm. Anne: All right. Congratulations, Sofia. All right. Let's talk about now the winner in the Spanish category, and Pilar, I'm gonna let you handle that. Pilar: So the winner in the Spanish category is.... Milena Benefiel, and this is her submission. Milena: Milena Benefiel. Beep beep. Es el sonido que uso para siñolar que este es un commercial de autos mientras que usted podria está conduciendo la caretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Beep beep beep -- balla, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Pilar: I felt like she was very just right there and very straight forward. And you know, this is how it's done. And there was that little sort of laugh at the end. And I, I just, I love this read. Anne: I thought she had a nice, warm smile and a lot of personality in it. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: And so I really enjoyed her, and there were so many good ones, but I, I think for her, I just felt an immediate connection with that. Pilar: Mm-hmm. Anne: She was, it was almost like she was in my ear. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: And that's a very cool feeling. It's like, hey, telling you a secret and let me tell you about this Toyota. So yeah. Lots of fun and nicely done. Congratulations, Milena. Pilar: Okay. So now we have an honorable mention for the Spanish version and the runner-up was....Nicoletta Mondellini, and here is her read. Nicki: Soy Nicki Mandolini con Dos Thomas. Beep beep. Es el sonido que uso para siñolar que este es un commercial de autos mientras que usted podria está conduciendo en la caretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Beep beep beep beep -- balla, lo siento, creo que mi burrito ya está listo. Beep beep. Es el sonido que uso para siñolar que este es un commercial de autos mientras que usted podria está conduciendo en la caretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Beep beep beep beep -- balla, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Anne: . I'm all about her beep, I'm just saying. Pilar: Her, yeah, her beeps are really fun. And so since we didn't specify one take -- Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: -- or two takes, obviously there a few people who submitted two takes, and I really liked her read because it was different, the first one from the second. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: The first one was very bubbly. Anne: Mm-hmm, yep, absolutely. Pilar: And it was bouncy, and it was full of energy, and the second one was straightforward, but it was still warm, still engaging. Anne: I agree. Pilar: Still talking right to you. And I liked that. Anne: I agree. And I, I think you're right. We didn't say one or two takes, we didn't make a specification, but I think that if you are going to submit two takes, make sure that those two takes are different and different enough so that we can hear that difference. Because for me, that ended up being the point where I said, oh, that was a really cute take. I was like, okay. Short list. But there was a few people on my short list, but when she went on the second take, it showed to me that she could actually have a different take and act. And so I tended to choose her because she did the second take because now I know for a fact that she can give me a different read, and I know I can feel confident that when I'm directing the session, that she can give me what I need. Pilar: That she can deliver. Anne: Yeah. That she can deliver. And so congratulations. And that beep really kind of stuck out. And so here's the thing we asked, 'cause beep beep was kind of a sound effect in the file. We never really specified where the beep was coming from. Even though it seems obvious that maybe it would come from a car or a microwave. But what I loved is most people had a lot of fun with the beep beeps, and I applaud that because that's what made your auditions stand out, if you had fun with the beeps or if you could laugh at yourself. I had a couple of people that really, really went all out for the beeps. And I think that it paid off. Pilar: Because when you bring that little teeny weeny piece of creativity, it affects your voice. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: And it affects your attitude. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And so that tells us as the casting directors, oh, they know how to play. They know how to give us a, a little bit of a different flavor for that particular moment, even if it's just two seconds long. Anne: Yup. Absolutely. Pilar: So that's really important. Anne: Cool. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: All right. So now our final category, our combination. Pilar: You know what? Anne: Yeah? Pilar: I feel like this deserves two drum rolls. Okay? Anne: because let's talk about the English first and then the Spanish. How's that? Pilar: Exactly. Anne: We'll do that. So one drum roll, one drum roll. Pilar: One drum roll. Anne: Winner of the English is Ramesh Mathani. Congratulations, Ramesh. Let's play his winning read in English. Ramesh: This is Ramesh Mathani. Beep beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know you can trust Toyota and all our new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep -- oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Beep beep. That is the sound of me signaling that this is a car commercial while being considerate of the fact that you may be on the road. It's exactly this kind of consideration that lets you know you can trust Toyota and our all new 2022 Highlander SUV to get you where you need to be faster and more reliably. Beep beep beep beep beep -- oops. Sorry. I think my burrito's done. Anne: So two completely different reads and interestingly enough, he had a little bit of a, a global international accent on his first read and then more of a straight English read on the second, but they were definitely different. And I remember listening to his first read, I thought, oh, that's really, that sounds nice. But I was just like, okay, I let it -- and then when he came in with the second one and had a different read completely, and even had a different like burrito he had a different burrito expression, I really just thought that that really showed his acting ability. And I was, I was just very impressed. Pilar: Yeah. And I just, I wanna reiterate how important it is to have, if you're going to do two reads, make them different. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: Obviously you don't wanna, you know, have a low voice and then have a high voice because that's kind of silly, but there were a couple of entries where the exact same thing was uploaded twice. Anne: Mm-hmm. yep. Pilar: Or a read was done double time, much quicker. Anne: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Pilar: But that doesn't make it a different read. What's your attitude? Who are you talking to? Anne: Right, exactly. Pilar: Are you talking to your mother or are you talking to your best friend? Anne: Sure. Pilar: Are you talking your husband? 'Cause that's going to inform the difference in the read and that's what's gonna make a difference and show us that you know how to act. Anne: Yeah. Change the scene and change your read. Don't just change what it sounds like. Right? Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Change your scene and it'll change your reaction to it and your acting. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: So awesome. So now let's go ahead and play his winning audition in Spanish. Oh! Pilar: One more time for the drumroll. Anne: That's right. Ramesh. Pilar: Ramesh. Ramesh: Soy Ramesh Mathani. Beep beep. Es el sonido que uso para siñolar que este es un commercial de autos mientras que usted podria está conduciendo en la caretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Beep beep beep beep beep beep -- balla, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Beep beep. Es el sonido que uso para siñolar que este es un commercial de autos mientras que usted podria está conduciendo en la caretera. Este tipo de servicio es lo que le permite saber que puede confiar en Toyota y en nuestra nueva SUV Highlander 2022 para que se transporte de un lugar a otro de la manera más rápida y confiable. Beep beep beep beep beep -- balla, lo siento, creo que mi burrito está listo. Anne: You know what I love about that? Pilar: What? Anne: So besides that he's got two different reads, what is really strategic that he did is he placed in both his English and Spanish placed his second read right at the end of the first so that there was no time for the casting director to just like, okay, next. So he literally almost ran them into each other so that it was obvious that there was a second read coming, and it was actually really kind of cool that beep beep was the words because it made it even more like distinct that here's the first read. Here's the second read. But he just, he really butted them up against each other to strategically not allow the casting director to take the ears off of the listen. Pilar: Yeah. And that's so important as we've probably discussed in an earlier podcast, how casting directors are gonna listen to you. They say they listen to everything, but my question has always been -- 'cause I listened to every single one of these. Anne: Do they? Yes, I did too. Mm-hmm. Pilar: And to the end. So when I hear casting directors say we listen to every single one, I wonder, do they listen to every single one to the end? Anne: Right. Pilar: Or do they in fact listen to -- Anne: The first part. Pilar: -- six seconds -- Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: -- which is what is sort of the average. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: And that's why it's so important to remember the ears that are listening to it on the other end. What you're saying is something that I'm gonna use too is just to -- Anne: Yeah, super strategic. Pilar: -- just to smoosh it right next to it so you you're not giving -- to me, one of the things I learned when I started doing on camera work so many years ago, 'cause I've been doing auditions for like over 30 years, is that you wanna make it really difficult for them to turn you off. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. That's it, that's key. Pilar: Or to discount you. Anne: Yep. Pilar: So you wanna do everything possible and obviously you don't wanna make it sound rushed, but it's -- and that's what it means about making, just perfecting the audition. So it's like a little slice of this perfect 30 seconds, and it's not about, you know, being perfect. That's not the point of it. Anne: Yeah, absolutely, good point. Pilar: But it's just about how much you can give to the audition that you're sending in. And then you just, you know, you send it in, and then you let it go and you release it. Anne: Yep. Exactly. Pilar: And I think that he gave us variation. He gave us warmth. Anne: He gave us the feels. Pilar: I trusted him in both languages. So I felt like, oh yeah, okay. If this stranger came up to me and spoke to me, I'd be like, yeah, this is okay. I can go with this. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Pilar: So that's so important because it's about confidence. It's about confidence in what you're doing in the moment as you are acting. And so if you believe what you're saying, the person on the other end is gonna believe it as well. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, great takeaways. I mean, so let's remember, BOSSes, make sure that first of all, you follow directions . First of all, follow directions, make sure that you've got some good audio coming out, really work on your acting, make us feel something at the end of your read. And again like Pilar, I love that you said it doesn't have to be perfect. And as a matter of fact, there's a lot of imperfections. I even wrote a blog article on it once, but imperfections are beautiful, and imperfections make me listen. They make me connect. It makes you relatable. It makes you real and authentic, and play, have fun. Pilar: Play and have fun. And don't be worried about if your throat does something weird and it comes out -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- and it's funny, keep it. Anne: If you don't think it sounds right. Pilar: Yeah. Right. Like don't get rid of all your breaths. If that's part of the acting, keep them in there. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: It does not have to be perfect. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: But it has to be engaging so we stop and go, oh yeah. That's what that, that's it, that's the one. 'Cause most of the times casting directors don't know what they're looking for. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: But when they hear it, they're like, yes, that's it. Anne: Mm-hmm. Pilar: That's what I want. Anne: Absolutely. Well, to wrap this all up guys, congratulations. Thank you all for participating. It was an amazing challenge, I think. Everyone, I thank you all for participating. Congratulations to our winners, winner of the English, Joe Lewis, and honorable mention to Sofia Zita. Pilar: Winner of Spanish Milena Benefiel, winner honorable mention Nicoletta Mondellini. Anne: And the winner for both English and Spanish, Ramesh Mathani. Pilar: Ramesh! Woo-hoo! Anne: Congratulations, everyone. I'd like to give a huge shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect like BOSSes and find out more atipddl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll catch you next week. Congratulations, winners. Woo-hoo! Pilar: Ciao. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Three days with VO industry experts + networking with peers? Sign us up! Anne gets the inside scoop on what's in store for eVOcation 2022 with co-founders Jamie Muffett and Carin Gilfry. The three chat industry advice for newcomers + seasoned voice artists, what to expect at the conference, paying it forward, and how important it is to make education a lifelong journey! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to be here with amazing talents and founders of the popular eVOcation Conference, which is devoted to the business of voiceover, Jamie Muffett and Carin Gilfry. Thank you guys so much for joining me today. Carin: Thanks for having us. We're so excited to be here. Jamie: Yeah. Thanks, Anne. Anne: I am so excited to talk to you guys about all things, eVOcation, business voiceover, because I think you guys are such an amazing team. Like you've been together for a number of years, I'm gonna say at least that I've known about -- Carin: Yeah. Anne: -- doing wonderful things for the voiceover community and supporting communities on Facebook with a wonderful conference that you're now having once or twice a year, I'm not sure. Um, we'll talk about that. . Carin: We're not really sure either, because I feel like as soon as we started this conference, then we had a global pandemic, and -- Anne: Yeah, right? Oh my gosh. Carin: So now we're like, so what, what are we doing? Jamie: Yeah. Anne: Well, so before we get to talking about eVOcation, I'd like my BOSS listeners to find out a little bit about you guys. So if you guys wouldn't mind introducing yourselves tell the BOSSes a little bit about how you got into voiceover and then ultimately how you two met and started creating these wonderful community resources. Jamie. Jamie: Carin, do you want to go -- oh. Jamie: Too polite. Carin: We're, we're just so polite. Anne: You guys are so polite to each other. That's why I let you do that. . Jamie: All right. Well, I'm gonna take the lead . I started voiceover in 2009 in the UK and knowing that I was gonna move to the US. So I sort of had this plan that was gonna sort of be a job that I could start in the UK and then try transition over. Um, only really had confidence in it because I had sort of recording knowledge. I was in the sort of studio world in the music industry. And so I knew how to record my voice. And I knew I was going to America where apparently they like English guy voices. So that's, that's all I had really coming in . I started in the UK and then we moved over ,and then I sort of continued on and gradually moved away from music into voiceover. That sort of happened actually fairly quickly. Yeah, I do a whole different array of genres of voiceover, anything that requires British guy really that I'll throw my hat in the ring. And yeah, we connected, when was that? Probably, I don't know, like 2018? Carin: 2017 maybe. Jamie: Oh, maybe earlier. Oh, right. Yeah. Maybe 2017. Carin: 'Cause I feel like it was around when Mahalia was born, my daughter, and she was born in 2017. Jamie: Yeah. And it was actually -- Carin: Sometime around there. Jamie: -- Tim Friedlander I think that introduced us, I think. Carin: I think so. Jamie: Because Tim shot me a message and was like, oh, you know, there's this lady in New York who's got this huge Facebook group for New York voice actors? I was like, no . And so we connected that way and yeah, we just sort of got on well. And I've obviously got my podcast VO School, and she had her community, and we were talking and we was like, there's nothing really in New York aside from Carin's regular classes and things like that. There was nothing big in New York, which seemed crazy . So that was sort of the sort of burgeoning discussion that eventually resulted in VOcation. Anne: A-ha. Carin? Carin: I was a theater kid. My dad's an opera singer. My parents are both performers, and really in my family, there are two options. You either become a teacher or a performer. And a teacher is really a kind of performer anyway . Anne: True. Carin: And so I ended up going to school for opera. And then after being in the opera industry for a while, I, it just, it was so stressful. It's like being an opera singer is like being like an Olympic gymnast or something, or like a professional ballet dancer where you just have to be on top of your game all the time. And if you are even a little bit below what is considered absolute pro, then you're just like, you don't exist. So it was so stressful. And I had a friend who was narrating audio books, I thought, oh, that would be a great thing to do. I can use my voice. I can use my acting abilities. And so I got into voiceover that way. What I didn't know, and this is part of the reason why we founded VOcation also is like all the other skills that you have to know in order to be a successful voice talent. You have to learn how to record yourself and edit yourself and negotiate your own contract. And you have to learn how to direct market and set up a website and make sure that your online casting profiles are set up in a way that meets all the algorithmic things that you need to meet on those sites. There's just so much, and I love every single part of it. The more I found that I could take the reins of my own career, the happier I was. Because in so many parts of the performance industry, the entertainment industry, if you're a performer, you're kind of like waiting for gatekeepers to open doors for you. And in voiceover, yeah. I find that it's not that way. You can really build your own career the way that you wanna do it, and you don't have to wait for an agent or a manager or for winning a competition. You don't have to wait for any of those things. You just kind of jump in and go. Anne: Amen. . Carin: Yeah. And it's, and it's awesome. Anne: That's one of the parts that I love about it as well. It's so refreshing to meet with a couple of people who probably love the business aspect of voiceover, as much as the creative and performance -- Carin: I love it so much. Anne: -- aspect. And I love how you said it just, it becomes, it's your own. This is something that you can direct your own business. And it's one of the reasons why I kind of diverged into three different brands myself, because I wanted to follow each passion and have that as part of my business. And I think that, honestly, there's so many people that, it's so necessary, the business aspect of it, because I'm always saying that you can have the greatest voice in the world, but it doesn't mean anything if nobody knows about it. And so -- Carin: Exactly. Anne: -- there's gotta be that aspect that you are being able to market yourself and create the business that you want in order to be successful in, hey, I gotta help pay the bills. That's for sure. Carin: Yeah. Anne: So. Carin: The other thing that, what I love about voiceover is that there are so many ways to make a career. And like, I know that you, Anne, and I have totally different approaches to how we find work. Like, you are amazing at direct marketing. And you're great at marketing yourself and branding yourself. And you just said, you have three different brands. And I don't do any of that. I started on online casting sites. And I just love to audition. And I audition all day long. And I think both approaches are valid and both approaches can result in similar outcomes. And you know, now I work with agents and managers too, and I love that part of it too. But I think Christian Lance who's, if you don't know Christian Lance, he's like -- Anne: I do. Carin: He's, yeah, he's a great voice talent. He said voice actors are kind of like drivers where like, if you say you're a driver, are you a race car driver, or are you an Uber driver or are you a truck driver or are you like, what kind of driver are you? It's the same with voiceover. There are just so many different ways to be a voice actor. Anne: Yeah. Carin: And that's why at VOcation, we bring a lot, lot of different people in to give you a lot of different approaches to doing the business of voiceover. And you take what works for you and you can toss out what doesn't work for you. So I like that. Anne: I do too. I love it. Jamie, your thoughts? Jamie: I agree. Anne: One of those things that's so funny because at conferences, when you're given choices about what classes to take, there are always the performance classes and then there are like the business classes. I've noticed year after year, people are always going for those performance classes, yet what they really need is the business aspect to it. So I can completely appreciate and love the whole concept of a conference just about the business of voiceover. And you guys have really did something successful. So talk to us a little bit about the evolution of the conference and how you guys came to be, and, and that first year, what was it like? Jamie: Well, we didn't want to just put on another conference that already existed, because what's the point in that? You know, I know things are a little different now post-COVID or well, we're in COVID still, but at the time there were a whole bunch of conferences that, although in different locations, which is most important for a lot of people in terms of access. The offering was kind of similar, you know? I mean, you'd go to one conference and the similar kind of speakers. So we wanted to do something a bit different. And like you said, a lot of conferences, people are so drawn to the performance type classes and panels and things like that. The -- they're like the sort of fast food . Anne: Yeah, right? The candy. Jamie: Yeah. The candy. Anne: Yeah, the candy. Jamie: And we are like, we're like the broccoli. Anne: Yes, exactly. Oh my God. Carin: We're totally the broccoli. Anne: yeah. I love it. Jamie: But if you go to a conference and or you go to a restaurant and it's like a salad bar, like you're gonna indulge in the salad like that you're not even gonna worry about all the other stuff. So that's, that's what we are. We're the salad bar. Anne: The salad bar. Jamie: Yeah. Anne: But I love broccoli. I'm just saying. Jamie: Yeah, I do too actually, Anne: See, there we go. Jamie: I dunno why people hate it. Carin: Delicious. Anne: There we go. So we love broccoli. So therefore we love the whole -- Jamie: Yeah, that's the big takeaway from this. Anne: There you go. We love broccoli . Jamie: So yeah. We're broccoli. Anne: Jamie: Shall I expand on that? Anne: Yes. Expand on what was the first year like, and did you have it, I think you had an in-person conference, right? The first year? Jamie: Yes. We did Symphony Space on the upper west side in New York. You know, the other thing we wanted to do is we wanted to hold it in the city. Like not in an airport like 10 miles outside of town. And that, you know, brings its own challenges. You know, you're having to bring stuff in and shepherd people around, put them where they need to go. Carin: And it's a lot more expensive. Anne: Oh, I was just gonna say, I can't imagine the cost of having it in the city. Carin: Yeah. Renting space in New York is a whole thing. It's and actually Symphony Space is wonderful because they cater to a lot of nonprofits and I mean, we're, we're not a nonprofit, but they cater to a lot of like, you know, smaller groups, and renting a theater was much better for us than renting an event space. Event spaces are just crazy in New York. Yeah. We love Symphony Space. Jamie: Yeah. And we were sort of feeling it out as we went really. It was our first big event that we put on. And, um, for both of us, we, neither of us had been to a voiceover conference before. We'd been to conferences, but not voiceover. So we didn't really have something to compare it to, but it was such a fulfilling weekend. And, you know, we think based on the feedback, everyone had a at time. So yeah, it was, it was really good. We had a whole array of business classes and panels that some were very genre based. Some were, you know, marketing, some were more businessy like tax and stuff like that, and negotiation and things like that. So there's still a huge amount of scope even within this sort of limited niche conference spare to explore lots of different avenues. Like you said, there's just so much, there's so much to it. So every year, maybe not thematically, but we'll dive into different aspects. And, you know, because like Carin said, there is no definitive one path through this industry. So you really have to sort of present, uh, many of the options as possible to people. And then they draw out what is appropriate to them and what sort of fits in their career. Anne: What I love about that is because there is no one clear path or right path to get into it, your conference is offering all of the options, and people that are just kind of finding their way in this industry, I think that's such an important resource for them to understand. Number one, as you both are saying, there's more than one path into success in voiceover, and having a resource that allows people to see all the different options, I think, is truly a wonderful thing. And I wish, you know, when I had gotten into voiceover back in the day, and I'm like, I'm old, there wasn't -- Carin: You're not that old. Anne: Well, probably older than I'd like to admit these days, but it's one of those things where there wasn't groups, there wasn't online groups. There were physical groups, but when you were just getting into voiceover, it was hard to find them. And so this has kind of evolved over the years. And I just love the fact that you guys have provided a resource solely dedicated to business, 'cause I'm a business geek. I'm fully so very excited that you guys are gonna be continuing this and, and this year, even you're having a, a virtual conference and I think an in-person conference, is that correct? Carin: We are. Anne: Cool. Carin: Finally after three years, we're now gonna do a VOcation in person again in New York at Symphony Space in September -- Anne: Nice. Carin: -- of 2022. And our virtual conference eVOcation is gonna be in June. And we're so excited that you're joining us, Anne. Anne: Yes. Thank you. I'm honored and very excited to take part in this for the first year for the virtual conference. I'm excited. Now, Carin, you moved from New York -- Carin: I did. Anne: -- to my neck of the woods, and I, and I'm originally from New York state myself and New Jersey. So now that you are in California, do you miss New York? Do you miss your peeps in New York? . Carin: I miss it so much. Oh my gosh. We left at the very beginning of the pandemic. Anne: Yeah. Carin: It was so crazy in New York at the very start. Anne: Yes, oh, I know. Carin: You know, we have two little kids and being in our little 800 square foot apartment with one bathroom and a potty training toddler and a baby and no backyard was like just impossible . So we bought a house sight unseen and moved to Southern California, and this sounds really dumb. And I feel like maybe this is a bit of hyperbole, but it, I felt almost like, like a refugee. Like we left without saying goodbye to anyone. Anne: Yeah, right. Carin: Because we couldn't see anyone, and we just kind of bought a house and packed up our stuff and left within a few weeks, and we were not planning on it. And so for the first like year that were here in California, I love it. My family's close by, the weather's beautiful. The kids absolutely love it. But if I would see a picture of the New York skyline -- Anne: Oh I know . Carin: -- I just would burst into tears. Anne: Yeah. Carin: I just, I miss it so much. And what I miss about it most is the community of people that we built there. Anne: Yeah. Carin: Because voice actors of NYC, we were doing two or three in-person events a month with like 50 to 100 people every event. And they were almost all donation based. So, you know, a teacher would come, and people would just pay what they could. And then the teacher would take the whole donation amount except for the space rental. And you know, we got to know each other, like we would eat each other's cooking when we had a potluck, and we knew each other's family, and we met each other's spouses. And it was just such a beautiful, wonderful community. And I'm so excited to do VOcation in New York and to see my New York family again, 'cause I just, I miss them all so much. Anne: I definitely miss New York. There's something about New York that I don't know. I love California. Don't get me wrong. And I'm probably not gonna move back to New York or New Jersey, but I have family back there. So there's really just something magical about it. And I love how you had a community. It reminds me of, you know, one of the reasons when I moved out west, I started the VO Peeps because I wanted a community because I didn't know people, and I wanted to meet people and just start a community out here. So I get that community. I think that's something so important when you are first starting out in this business. It's important to have a sense of community because people helping people in like minded industry, I think it's wonderful that you have a, a group, and that group is also online. And I can really see the sense of family there. You guys take such good care. I'm in a lot of groups, and you guys really take care of your members. And I really admire that about both of you. And you're both really giving people. I noticed that this year there's like a trillion scholarships for the conference. I mean, talk to us a little bit about your scholarships for the conference. Jamie: Well, yeah, it started originally at the very first event when Joe from Voice Actor Websites gave up his speaker fee to a ticket for the following year for someone, and he said, oh, just donate it to someone next year. I don't -- you don't need to pay me, which I thought was really a sweet thing. And then we mentioned that, and then quite organically people started offering, well, I'll pay for a ticket for someone. And then someone else saw that they did that. Then it just sort of snowballed. And then last year I think we had 15 scholarships that we gave out. And then this year we've had 27. Anne: That's amazing. Jamie: So 27 people, yeah, are getting to go to the conference that maybe they probably otherwise wouldn't have gotten to go to. So, you know. Anne: So then let me ask you, because I've also offered scholarships through VO Peeps, and that's not a small thing. There's a lot of work. I mean, I love to be a provider of scholarships if I can, but there's also some work. And I think you guys, in order to just even offer the scholarships, what is the criteria for the scholarship? And then you have to judge, and that's always tough. Carin: So we had 87 people apply for scholarships this year, and Jamie and I read through every single application. And it's just an online form. And you talk a little bit about your journey and voiceover, why you think you would be a good candidate for the scholarship, how you plan to give back to the community, if you get the scholarship, and then anything else we should know. And I have to say it was such a tough decision, and we awarded scholarships based on so many different things. People who had real financial need and seemed like real go-geters. People who've had like a really bad couple of years. People who just filled out their application so well and seemed like just amazing candidates who are just gonna take the next step into voiceover and have great success. It was just a real mix of all of those things. And we came up with 27 people that we agreed on took a little while, but. Jamie: Yeah, we had a whole process that we had to go through to get to that point. Anne: I had a score sheet. And I love that you based it on financial need. And I, I really am a big proponent of offering scholarships to help people that really need it. And even if, like you said, if they've had a couple of tough years and judging that those entries are so difficult. I actually would have a different judging panel every year, which I never disclosed, but it became work for people. And I'm so grateful for the people that helped in the judging of that all because it is a lot of work. And, and I thought for myself, for me to just judge, it was tough without having someone else have a -- Carin: Yeah. Anne: -- another objective view. So I would always get a team of people who would volunteer their time to judge. And so I love, love, love that you guys are doing scholarships and just, it warms my heart, it really does because I haven't had, uh, VO Peeps scholarship in, in the last year because I've kind of gotten on board with some other scholarships. And so I still once a year, try to give out scholarships for VO Peeps, for people that have a financial need. So kudos to you for that. So let's talk about your lineup this year. Who do you got coming? Yeah. And what sort of topics are you gonna be talking about? Carin: Well, we have a lot of great people. Maria Pendolino of course is a rockstar. She's coming back. Anne: She is. Carin: Anne: Total rockstar. Carin: She's gonna give a talk called Non-broadcast Genre is the Foundation of Your House. Anne: oh, nice. Carin: Which is great. Anne: Love it. Love it. Jamie: I feel that's up your street, Anne . Carin: Yeah. I'm gonna be, uh, interviewing Mark Guss about the agent client relationship. Mark Guss of course is a manager at ACM talent, but he's been an, an agent as well. Amazing guy. We have a panel on all of the freelancer websites, including Fiverr and Upwork and -- Anne: Okay. Carin: -- what they mean for our industry. And is there a way to use them ethically? Anne: Sure. Love it. Carin: We have a -- yeah. We have a working pros panel. What else do we have, Jamie? Jamie: I think you should have prepped people that you were gonna say the Fiver word, 'cause if someone's driving while they're listening to this, they'll probably just crash their car. Carin: Yeah, that panel is called We Don't Talk About Fiverr, No, No. Anne: But we do, but we should. Jamie: We should. Anne: I think we should. Carin: We don't talk about Fiverr. Anne: I'm kinda on board with that. I think there's too many people that aren't talking about it. Carin: Yeah. Anne: And there's too many people that don't talk about other things like synthetic voices. And I think that that's important. Carin: Yeah. Anne: Because how do we prepare ourselves for that -- Carin: Exactly. Anne: -- influence in our industry? So, I mean, you can't ignore Fiverr. It's there. Jamie: Yeah. Anne: And other assorted, you know, maybe freelance communities that are maybe not desirable in some people's eyes. I think like you said, Carin, there's multiple paths. Carin: Exactly. Anne: And I am not here to judge. To be honest. I mean, we run our own businesses. I think that there's principles that we should all maybe try to strive for and knowing your worth, which is I think at the top of the list, I think that that's definitely something that you have to understand, but then we all run our own businesses. Carin: I think so much of knowing your worth just comes from an education. Anne: Yeah. Agreed. Carin: When I started, I didn't even know that there were agents that were sending people out for auditions. Like, I didn't know there was a union that I was supposed to join. I didn't know anything. All I knew is that I did a Google search and I found these online casting sites, and they were offering $100 for only a 30-second commercial? That's like, so little time. Right? I just had no idea Anne: I get it. Carin: I had no idea what the rates were. Anne: So totally get that. Carin: Yeah. And that's how people start. They go on Fiverr because that's like the thing to do if you're a freelancer, and they don't know about the GVAA rate guide. Anne: Right. Carin: They don't know that you're supposed to be getting higher rates. And I think when you know, then you charge more. Anne: Yeah. Carin: So I think is a huge part of it. Anne: Yeah. Carin: And we can't fault people for not knowing what the industry standards are. The only thing we can do is educate, you know, lovingly guide them to charge more if they can. Anne: I agree. I got on the pay-to-plays back when they were first starting and they worked for me. But before the pay-to-plays, there was freelancer.com. And I don't even know if it was called that, but that was, if you wanna talk about people who underbid in order to get a job, the earliest freelancer was people would go post their jobs, and the person that bid the lowest won. And I was on that. I'm not saying that could be considered the Fiverr of today maybe. Carin: Yeah. Anne: But I didn't know. Carin: Right, exactly. Anne: And again, it was, I didn't have the education. There weren't the online communities like there were, and I found out and I learned thankfully, you know, that I was worth and I was worthy of charging a fair rate. And ultimately I evolved into the mindset, know your worth. And I think as influencers with the podcast that we are putting out there as a resource, with the conferences, eVOcation, I think that it's wonderful that we are putting out resources to educate people about knowing their worth. And that's all we can do really . Jamie: Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's only part is part of the offering as well. So you may hear discussions about Fiverr and Freelancer and what have you. And, and then you learn about some of the other avenues, direct marketing. And then you determine where your journey, where your path lies. That's sort of the, the beauty of this, this industry. And you know, with some of the online discussions, particularly not to make this all about Fiverr, but with some of the online discussions, you, you even mention that, and you're immediately pounced upon, you know? Anne: Oh, I know. Jamie: There is no discussion -- Anne: Yeah, yeah. Jamie: -- why it's bad, et cetera. But the other thing is that for me, I think if you've been in the industry for five plus years, you don't know what it's like to start in 2022. The landscape is different now to how it was five plus years ago. So we really should have those discussions to educate us who are more established as to what the lay of the land is in a sort of earlier phase. So yeah, we got a whole bunch of stuff. We got casting panels, rates and usage. Anne: Wow. Jamie: You're teaching the email marketing class, and social media, we've got Natalie. Carin: Yeah. Natalie Natus. She's so great. Jamie: Yeah. Carin: She's an audiobook narrator who has like just kind of exploded on TikTok and -- Anne: Fantastic. Carin: -- very funny and wonderful. So she's talking about social media, all good stuff. Jamie: And we've got Voice Actor Websites' crew talking all about how to optimize your website and separately, how to work your SEO because they're two sides of the same coin, but you can't have one without the other, if you really wanna, you know, your website to work. So yeah. There's other stuff too, but we won't go through everything. . Anne: Well, it sounds like a fantastic lineup. And what are those dates? Jamie: eVOcation is June 10th, 11th and 12th. Carin: Yes. Anne: Got it. Jamie: Three days. Anne: Your in-person one, you're kind of scoping out for the fall, is that correct? Carin: We have the dates actually, September 10th and 11th. Anne: Fantastic. Carin: In New York city. And I'm pretty sure tickets are gonna go on sale in July for that one. So keep an eye out, and we actually have another kind of secret thing that we'll announce at the conference as well about something coming up in 2023. Anne: Awesome. Jamie: Yeah. Carin: We won't tell you here, but it's a fun secret. Jamie: It's just a tease. Carin: This is just a tease. Anne: I love secret things. Carin: Yes. Anne: All right. Jamie: Tease from the broccoli. Anne: I'm so excited BOSSes. Really, this is a conference I think everybody should go to this conference. Everybody in voiceover should go to this conference. Jamie: I agree. Anne: It's just, yeah. Such a wonderful resource for the community. Thank you, guys, so much for doing this, for your generosity. You guys are just amazing for being such a support in the community. I really appreciate that. I see it all the time. You guys are just so wonderfully supportive and that is a wonderful thing. So my last question would be, if you guys had one tip to give to the BOSSes about being successful in their voiceover career, what would that be? Carin: I would say my best tip is find the thing that works well for you and works well for your brain and lean in to that. So if you find that you absolutely love direct marketing, lean into that and do it to the best of your ability. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, of course, but really, really put focus and attention and love into that. If you find that you love auditioning, put your focus and attention and love into that and find the thing that makes you love voiceover and makes you love going to work every day and lean into that thing. And that will help you to love your job and be successful. Anne: Awesome. Jamie: Yeah. And I've been thinking a lot lately, well, the last of year or so about how I interpret specs, and I've sort tried to change my approach to it. Rather than trying to twist myself into a pretzel to be the person that I think they want me to be, I use them as just ingredients into the soup of my brain that is trying to interpret what this project is. And then I give them my natural, authentic interpretation of that and the most real thing that I can offer, rather than getting too hung up the adjectives and the references and things like that. So I know that's not to do with business, but it's just something I've been thinking about a lot lately. And I saw an immediate uptick in bookings as a result of changing that mindset. Anne: Awesome. That's awesome. No, I think that's amazing. Thank you, guys. If anybody wants to get in touch, if the BOSSes wanna get in touch with you, how can they get in touch with you guys individually? And also what again is that URL for the conference, should they want to buy tickets? Carin: Yes. If you want to buy tickets for the conference, you can go to VOcationconference.com, and I am @CarinGilfry at -- on all the socials. Jamie: And I am Jamie Muffett on Instagram and all that jazz. And you can find my website, JamieMuffettVO.com. Anne: Thank you so much. And again guys, eVOcation tickets are on sale. Go get them, very important, BOSSes. I'd like to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor. ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes like we are today. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Carin: Bye. Thank you. Jamie: Thank you. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Auditions are a voice actor's work day in and day out. Anne & Pilar understand how important auditions are and how much time goes into crafting one that will catch the attention of casting directors. They discuss spending time with your copy, researching the product, adding smile to your slate, respecting the concept, and more…to get you auditioning like a total #VOBOSS. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am with my very special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar, how are you today? Pilar: I'm exhausted. Anne: You know what, I am too. And I have a question for you in regards to that, why? Pilar: Yes? Anne: Why Pilar? Pilar: Why am I exhausted? Funny you should ask that, Anne, funny you should ask that. I was up until all hours doing my auditions. Anne: Oh man. Why is it that every agent I know sends auditions at like 5:00 or 6:00 PM, when at the end of the day I am literally, I'm done. I'm like, I'm exhausted, my performance, and that's a big thing, Pilar, for me. I've got to have energy enough for performance and thought and acting, and I'm exhausted at the end of the day. And I'm like, oh no, because there's a decision, right? Do I do it at night when I'm tired and I've got to rev myself up or do I wait in the morning where I know I'm really good, but then my voice is like this, it's very low. Perhaps I can't get back down there again. Pilar: Yes. This is really true. It's kind of six of one, half dozen of the other. I really look at auditions as it's, it's work. Anne: Yes, it is work. Pilar: You know, auditions are what we do. It is the work. A good friend of mine said audition is the work and acting is what I get to do once in a while. Anne: It's our job. Pilar: Auditions are the job. Exactly. And so I like to look at auditions as sometimes I go, oh yeah, right, time to make the donuts, time to do the auditions. But other times I really like to look at them as an adventure. Anne: Yeah, like a puzzle. That's me. It's a challenge. Pilar: What is the adventure? Where's the story that I'm going on? And this may sound odd, but I have learned so much about people and about different themes just from auditions. Because when they tell you, okay, go here on, look on YouTube. Here's this reference, look at this. And then you look at it and you go, oh, wow. I didn't know about this product. I didn't know this woman had done this. Some of the images that they send you are so heart-wrenching and, and I just go, wow. I would never have known that if I hadn't auditioned. So I always try to look at the positive. [sings] "You gotta accentuate the positive." And um, yeah. I know everything is a song for me. It's really ridiculous. It's just what it is. It's a song or it's a jingle. Anne: Right? I think of you now every time I climb in my studio and I'm singing, and I'm like, yeah, I bet Pilar's singing right now. She's singing the audition. But -- Pilar: Yeah, pretty much. Anne: -- I always like to go at auditions with a strategy, right? Pilar: Yeah. Anne: I try to do something that I think that nobody else will do because in my head immediately, right, when I read the script, I'm hearing something that maybe I've heard on television before. I've heard a melody. And again, I want to make sure that I'm selected for the job. I want to get the gig. So I want to really figure out how I can be unique in that audition. And that's what most people say, what's a good strategy for auditioning, well, bring yourself to the party, do something unique, because casting directors and by the way, for anybody who's never cast before, I strongly encourage it. If you guys have an accountability group or you work out with peers, run your own casting. Because that will help you to understand what casting directors go through. I literally -- only takes one, one example, one test where you're listening to maybe a couple, even 20. Even if you just listen to like 20 auditions in a row for the same piece of copy, you're gonna find things that stand out to you and things that don't. Pilar: It's so interesting because I had the opportunity, I had to cast, uh, something, but it wasn't for a voice at all. It was for some artwork. And I was very specific, very specific in the directions. And I had this one person who basically fought me every step of the way, because we could have that interaction, which you don't usually have when you're doing voiceover auditions. But he would ask me questions and I would answer them. And every time -- I would say, this is what I need, I need one sketch. And then he would go off on a tangent and present 10. And I was like, did you not read the directions? This is what I want -- Anne: But no. Pilar: But no, exactly. And so it's -- I think the one thing that I learned from casting is casting directors, they are looking for you. They are looking for your voice, and it may not be in this particular audition or in the next one or in the next one or in the next one. But they are looking for you. So you need to present your best work and think of that. Anne: And impress them. Pilar: And impress them. Not by trying to please them, because that's another big trap that people fall into that I've fallen, fallen into so many times. Anne: What a good point. Pilar: It's not about what do they want? You know, it's like when they say we're looking for a Scarlett Johansson or Sigourney Weaver type, which I get all the time -- Anne: Yup, yup, me too. Pilar: -- they're not looking for Scarlett Johansson. They're not looking for Sigourney. It's for an essence. Anne: Right. Pilar: So watch her movies, watch their movies, listen to them. You don't need to ape them. You don't need to try to copy them exactly. But listen for their attitude. And you have to develop that attitude when you go into the booth to record. Now, everyone has a different strategy, right? Like some people print the auditions. Some people just underline, they bold. Some people just do it. Boom. They just go ahead and they go and they read, and they read a couple of times. Whatever it is that your process is, you want to try different things. You know? So you want to maybe read it a few times or maybe walk around with it. And I think in an earlier episode we mentioned singing. Anne: Of course, sing it to get you into a different frame of mind. Pilar: Exactly. Or do it like in workouts. When I do animation workouts, our teacher will say, okay, do it as if you were Cruella de Vil. And it's completely opposite, you know, and you're doing like the straight commercial copy for Charles Schwab. But when you get out of yourself -- Anne: As Cruella. Pilar: -- as Cruella, and then all of a sudden, you dive into the copy again, and it's a completely different read. Anne: Going back to the one point, which I think is almost possibly more important than, than your voice, and that is following directions. Pilar: Yes. Oh my God, yes. Anne: I wanted to revisit that. I wanted to add some commentary to that, understanding that I do some casting myself and also work with students. And so I have a number of people that I'm working with at any given time, so that when there are instructions on how to do something and perhaps where to put the audition, how to name the audition, and then there's a naming convention. Oh my goodness. That is so, so important because here's what happens if you're not following directions. First of all, I can't find your file. And if I can't find your file, I'll spend all that time, if I'm with you as a student, searching for that file, and that's your time that you've paid me for. So number one, you're kind of digging into your own time, if I cannot find the file that I've asked you to present. And also if it's not named correctly, it's not going to show up correctly in my computer. So again, I'll be hunting for something and taking up time that you have paid me for during our session. And/or if I'm casting, you've just taken up my time. And just at that point, because I've already asked you to do something, and you didn't follow directions, then I really have -- I've got a taste, kind of not a good taste in my mouth of you as an actor. Right? Pilar: Yeah, there's more of a possibility you're going to ignore the, the audition. Oh my God, fine. Whatever. Anne: I'll toss it right out the door. Sometimes it really depends because I could have 200 people, 300 people vying for that. And the people that have not followed directions, right, if I can't get to that audition quickly enough, or if I've specifically asked for something, and you've not been able to show that you can follow directions, well then how do I know you're going to be able to be directed? And that is, I want to say one of the biggest things. I think when we're auditioning for our agents and we're doing the job of auditioning, we're imagining what it sounds like, and we're trying to please, like you were mentioning before. We're trying to please the director is, this is what it should sound like. But in reality, we have to showcase so much more than that. We have to showcase our acting ability because what you hear in the commercial, when it finally runs, may not be what you auditioned with. And trust me, I think more casting directors are looking for the actor and not the sound that's in your head that you're mimicking. Pilar: Yup, yup, right. Anne: So they want to see that you can act and whether or not they direct you to that same audition in the final spot, if you get it, that's neither here nor there really. So -- and I heard a very well-known agent the other day that said, what you hear on TV is not necessarily what got you the job. Pilar: And something else, I mean, my agents are relentless when they say this, and they get this from the casting directors. I've been out here for almost three years now. And it amazes me that I still see the same language, which means people are not following directions. So when they say do not slate, we don't want anything. Don't start talking about yourself. I'm like, are you kidding me? You're sitting there talking about where you're from and you're trying to sit there and interact with the people who are going to hear it. Right? Anne: That's people trying to make things unique. Right? Pilar: Yes. Anne: So, yeah. So you've got to be careful, when all of the good advice is make yourself unique, that doesn't mean making yourself unique when you're not following directions. If people say, please don't slate, don't slate. That's not going to make you unique if you slate. So follow those directions. And then when it comes to the actual copy, then yes, I would say, be creative, bring yourself to the party and showcase your acting skills. Because a good casting director is going to be able to hear that like from note one, from the very first word. They're going to be able to tell if you're a great actor. And that is something that is attractive because when it comes time to actually laying down the spot, I mean, if you're lucky, they'll use your audition. But if they decide they want to lay down the spot later on and live direct you, they know that that's going to be a thing that they can do with you. They can direct you, you can be directable. So that is super important and follow all of those instructions. And you know what? Don't, don't follow the instructions because that way I'll have a better chance, right? That's the way I think, you know what, fine. You don't want to follow directions. Cool. Then my audition gets listened to and yours doesn't, so. Pilar: And here's something that's really interesting -- exactly -- that I learned actually recently, when they say, be creative again, you label. You slate or you don't slate. Within the boundaries of the competition itself, when you're auditioning, you can go ahead and be creative, but here's something -- there's a caveat to that. There might be like ums and ahs. You know, you, you can do something straight for your first take and then do a second take. And you want to be careful that one is different from the other, because you don't want to send them almost the exact same take. 'Cause then they're like, well, what's the difference? So if you have something that you think you can offer to them that is going to make them slow down and go, oh, okay. She can do this now. Or he can do this. Great. If you don't, just give them one take. I took a class the other day with a SAG-AFTRA foundation, SAG-AFTRA union members listening to this. There's some great free webinars. I heard this voice actor who's also casting director talk about -- he asked us, okay, who is the person who makes the decision? And there was a bunch of categories and the agent, the casting director, the producer. Nobody got the answer right, which was that the copywriter is the one who makes the decisions. Now that is open to interpretation. But I thought that that was really interesting. Anne: Oh, that's very interesting. Well, the copywriter is hired to write that voice in his head. Right? Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Represent the brand. And so I've always agreed. If you can get yourself into the copywriter's head and understand where they were, and you can figure that out and audition with that in mind, because it's going to fit nicely into the spot. 'Cause sometimes, you know, the spot, you know, has the video been completed. And the last thing they're doing is putting in the voice. Is there a scratch track already there? We don't know these things. Sometimes we have a storyboard. Sometimes we don't. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten an audition where there's absolutely nothing with it. There's no storyboard. I look at it and go, my goodness. What is that even about? And that's where your, your initial investigation into the brand, if you know what it is, can really help. Google is your friend, and that can really help you to understand the brand and how they are selling to their current clients, their potential clients. So that can help give you an idea. But I love that, like, who is it that hires you? Because that's such an interesting perspective because is it the copywriter who wrote the piece of copy? Is it the casting director, right, who is casting the project, or is it the client? So let's send in our audition, right, to our agent. The agent then shortlists us or not. Right? I don't know. It depends. You don't necessarily know if that audition got sent out to five of you or maybe 250, although sometimes that's easy to tell with certain agents where it seems like it's a big cattle call. But sometimes your agent and, and I'm sure, depending on the agent, if they know you very well, they're going to send it out to just a few people that they know would be great. So they've already in a way cast, right, your agent. And even if they cast the net far and wide, when they get those auditions back, they're listening to them, they might shortlist and then give that list to the client to make a decision. Pilar: Right. It could be interesting to know who it is that makes the decision. But really the reason I said that is because you have to respect the copy. Whether it's good or whether it's bad, whoever wrote it or whether -- that's your opinion. Somebody wrote that and somebody was hired professionally to professionally write that, and you have to respect their words. Anne: And every word is there for a reason. Pilar: Exactly. Because these people have worked on that thing for months and months and months and months. Anne: And look at us, coming in our studio for like maybe a minute, looking at the copy, and then making a decision as to what it means. Pilar: Exactly and saying, oh yeah, I'm going to change this because I don't really like that. It's like, no, no, that's not our job. Anne: Or not even that is to interpret it, but to take some time. I know people that just come in and they're like, okay, I got it. They read it. And they haven't taken any time to really digest the copy or to even try to analyze and see what's the idea, are there innuendos, is there like a double entendre? You know, what is it actually talking about? What does the visual look like at this time? And even if you don't know, and you never do know, if you make some assumptions and try to really analyze it a little bit more than just a few seconds, that's going to really help change your read. Pilar: Yeah. Because the voice is going to give a life to what you're seeing if it's a TV spot, for example. If it's radio, your voice is everything. Your voice has to be able to portray all these things. It's our job as voice actors to really take the time and note, what is the story we're telling? What is the beginning, middle and end? Because every piece of copy really, it's like a little one act play. And it, whether it's 15 seconds or it's a 10-page narration, there is a story. And it's our job to sift through that and to make our decisions, how to navigate that. And also by the way, the audition that you're given is usually not the audition that you're going to be doing. Sometimes it's going to be the copy, but sometimes it's not going to be the final thing. 'Cause it'll go through a whole bunch of other rewrites and by the time you get to actually record it. And so a lot of the times, if you're not careful, you can fall into traps. There are crumbs showing you the way. But if you sit there and you say, oh yeah, I'm just going to do the copy. I'm going to get into the booth and just read it, and it'll be great, you're going to fall into those traps. So that's another reason why we have to take our time with the copy, underline, try a different ways, see where the meanings are, see where those little trapdoors are. Anne: Tell me about the traps, expand on those traps. Like you just want to fall into a particular melody of what you think it should sound like versus there's actually a meaning behind the few words -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- right, that you haven't bothered to really investigate or to analyze. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Okay. Pilar: So I have a Spanish audition coming up, and I have to have an accent where it's sort of the equivalent of like a Southern accent. Anne: Interesting. Let's actually talk about that because I mean, obviously as a bilingual voiceover actor, there's lots of different opportunities that you have, if it's going to be English speaking or Spanish speaking, or maybe it's going to be cast for both. Let's talk a little bit about your auditioning techniques for that. Are the casting specs always for, I need a Spanish talent or are they more like we need an English that has a Spanish accent? Or what are you finding in the casting specs, first of all, that call for bilingual talent? Pilar: You know, it varies. Most of the times it's divided. So you're either going to get Spanish or you're going to get, here's the Spanish copy. But once in a while you will get a bilingual audition. So it's the copy in English and in Spanish. Anne: So you would get cast for the same thing in both languages, right? Pilar: Yep, yep, absolutely. And that doesn't happen very often, but it's happening more and more that a client wants to hear the same voice in both languages. And I don't know if this happens to all bilingual voice artists, but it's, it's just really funny. It's a totally different sensibility, when you read a commercial in English and you read the words in Spanish, it just is, the musicality is different. The rhythm is different, the attitude is different. And I can't really explain why that is. I just know it. Anne: Well, you have to know the culture, I think, right? Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: I mean, to be a, an effective bilingual talent, right? There has to be some native speaking there or growing up in a particular region or whatever other language that is. I would imagine more and more casting directors are looking for native speakers so that they can probably know that about the demographic. Pilar: Yeah, because you would think that a translation would be the same, but it's not the same thing. So you really have to kind of get into the character of this person who speaks Spanish versus the person who speaks English. And it's just a little, kind of a little switch, but there's a flavor to each piece of copy. So you have to bring your personality, even if it's in a different language to that copy. Anne: I would imagine that if they're having you do both English and Spanish, there might be some timing issues just because of the language difference. Like let's say it's a 30-second spot or something like that. And they're trying to have the same message, but yet the translation usually it takes a whole lot longer than an English version, let's say. And so do you run into issues like that where they have to re-write the copy or cut some of the copy for the other language or both languages? Pilar: Well, that's not my job -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- to do that. So I try to stay away from that. I used to be very, very concerned about the timing 'cause I'd be like, oh my gosh, this is -- because Spanish, it always takes three words to say the same thing in English, uh, for one word. So now I don't really worry about that as much. And if I go over, I go over, and again, it's just an audition. Anne: Right. Pilar: If they're being very specific, which I have had as well, you have to fit it into 30 seconds, I try to speed it up as much as possible before I sound like a chipmunk. And then I'll, you know, because I mean, sometimes I do and it's just kind of crazy. And I'll just tell my agent. Anne: That's like me in automotive. Right? Because they always throw in like so many more words than I can do in this 15 or 30-second. And so -- Pilar: Especially the legal, especially the legal. Anne: Well, by the time you get all the words in there, you have no room for emotion or nuance, you know, and it's just -- Pilar: Or breath. Anne: Or breath, exactly. So you're pretty much just like, blablblabla, you know, and that's it, which is always crazy to me. But so for the majority then let's say if your auditions, you're getting them in maybe English with an accent, or you're getting just a particular style of Spanish that you're auditioning for? Pilar: You know, I get everything. And it's really funny. 'Cause when I go and I do spots, because I've, I've done, let's say back to back English spot and Spanish spot. So then we'll be recording. We'll do the English spot, we'll do the Spanish spot and then they'll come back and they'll say, can you do the English spot with a little bit of an accent? And I'm like, really? And I'm like, okay, great, sure. You want that? It kind of depends. So if they ask for it, I do give them a little bit of an accent because you know, my mother has an accent. Pretty much all my relatives have accents. So I can just go to that little voice bank for that. Anne: So are you slating in an accent or in Spanish? Pilar: Only when the, the entire copy is in Spanish do I slate as Pilar Uribe, instead of Pilar You-ribe. When it's obviously something that they want some Spanish for -- like, I do a lot of work for spots that speak English, but they have sprinklings of, of words. So they need somebody who knows how to say those words in Spanish. So I'll always slate in my just, you know, Pilar Uribe. But for a Spanish speaking audition where only Spanish is spoken, I do say my name in Spanish. 'Cause I know that the person listening is, if they're not a native speaker, they speak it fluently. Anne: Right, right, right. Pilar: So they're going to understand what I'm saying. 'Cause if I say Pilar Uribe, most of the people are going to go, huh? Anne: Right, right. Actually, when I used to work at, um, in radio at NPR in Miami, they would say, no, no, we want you to speak. We want you to say your name the way you say it. And I was like, oh, okay. That's kind of a switch, because I always say, you know, if I try to say Pi-lar Uribe, people still don't get it. So I always just say, Pilar You-ribe. And I get Mylar, people call me Laura. And you know, it's not a common word, Pilar, but for auditions, yeah. You can get away with saying your name. And in fact, when you slate, something that I like to do is I like to smile a little bit and do a slight shrug of my shoulders. So I go, so one way, for example, I'll say my name one way, Pilar Uribe, two Pilar Uribe, Pilar Uribe. So I just smiled a little bit and I shrugged my shoulders and that completely changes the attitude. Anne: Yep, sure does. Sure does. Pilar: Especially when you're doing a serious commercial copy or narration or a video game, it just kind of gives them, it shows them a little split second personality. Anne: A little bit of your personality. Yep, exactly. And I think that's important. It's the first words that they hear, so. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Those are great tips, Pilar. Wow. We could probably go on about auditioning for like a whole other episode. Pilar: We could. Anne: Yeah, we could. Great tips. Thanks so much. Fantastic, BOSSes. So next time you audition, make sure you give it a little bit of time before you rush in there and start voicing everything. Do some research, give a shrug, have a little bit of a smile in your slate. Make sure you follow those directions. BOSSes, I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to a brand new sponsor, 100 Voices Who Care. This is a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference and give back to the communities that give to you. You can find out more by visiting 100voiceswhocare.org. Pilar: Ooh, I'm going to check that out. 100voiceswhocare.org. Anne: Yup. So this is a great way to make a difference without having to make a huge commitment. So you guys, check it out, make sure to check that out. Also big shout out to sponsor ipDTL. You too can connect a network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. Go forth and do all the wonderful auditions, and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much. Bye. Pilar: Hasta la vista, BOSSes. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Although we wish it were true, companies don't need VO produced 365 days a year. So what do you do when things are slow? Anne & Pilar have learned that the ebb and flow is all part of the biz. The amount of auditions you receive is not indicative of your worth, but it does feel good to be busy. Filling your time with classes, coaching, and market research during down time can prepare you for when the busy season comes again, but slow days can also be times to relax + restore your hard working voice, mind, and body like a true #VOBOSS. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am super excited to be back with special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Hey Pilar. How are you today? Pilar: I am good, Anne, and it's, uh, it's a little slow today. Anne: Yeah. You know what? That happens in our industry. We have days where, gosh, every time I turn around, there's something else to do. And I love those days. They're crazy days. But then there are days when it's slow. Back in the early days, Pilar, I used to like question, oh my God is what's happening? Like, should I get out of the industry? Like I haven't heard from any of my clients. I didn't book any gigs today. So what do I even do? So that would be a good topic for discussion today. Pilar: It's funny because I think that voice actors tend to equate their worth with the amount of auditions they get, which has absolutely nothing to do with them. Anne: auditions and or jobs too. So don't forget about that. Right? 'Cause they're like, oh my God, it's been slow. I haven't, I didn't book anything. I didn't get any auditions. What am I doing wrong? Pilar: Exactly. And it generally, it has nothing to do with you. There are things that you can do of course, but just remember that it's not necessarily a reflection on your ability. It's just sometimes it's the wave of what the market is doing. Anne: Yeah. The wave of the market. Pilar: I mean, there, there have been so many waves when people didn't know what was happening. And so clients and companies are still trying to figure out where to put their advertising dollars, and then that's when you see, well, what's happening? Why isn't, why isn't this coming in? Anne: I know and then you immediately blame it on yourself. Pilar: Immediately. And that's so that's so unhealthy. Anne: Yeah. It's a good thing to remember. I tell people because we do our BOSS advertising, the BOSS Blast, and a lot of times it really comes down to like what you said about the market. It is so true. We are driven by the market, right? When the market needs voiceover, they buy, not that they're not going to completely not need voiceover any given day, but there are waves. And it's always good to remember that if you're getting auditions, or you're submitting to any particular clients, corporate clients, if you're doing your own marketing, a lot of times any one particular company doesn't need a voiceover necessarily every single day. They're advertising. I don't really know one company that's advertising every single day, like hiring a voice talent. Sure, they're advertising, but it might be print. It might be email. It might be social media. They may not always be hiring a voiceover talent every single day. So remember when you send that email or that advertisement or that email for your services, remember that not every company has a new commercial every day or has a new e-learning module to do today. And that has a lot to do with offers that may come by. It just may be a whole timing issue. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. And so when those days are slow -- Anne: What do we do? Pilar: What do we do, exactly. And so one of the things that you can do is look at the business of where you are in your voiceover career. Are you sending out emails? Are you -- Anne: What's your marketing plan? Pilar: What's your marketing plan? Are you being top of mind for certain people, without being a stalker, 'cause that's something that we have to be really aware of. If you've had a client that you worked with, let's say a year ago, and you haven't heard anything or you got a new demo and you can say, hey, I just did a spot and I have a new demo. There's certain things that you can do during the slow time, during the let's say holiday times or the winter or the summer months. I was just thinking about this one very specific, slow time of the year is let's say Christmas through New Year's -- Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: -- because nobody's thinking about that. Everybody's dealing with their Christmas presents or their Hanukkah or whatever they're getting into. Anne: Well, the majority. Pilar: The majority, true. If you're not religious, that's fine too. Anne: Yeah. International clients might be working. So there is that. Pilar: Right. Anne: Yeah. But generally slower. Pilar: It's generally slower because people don't have that. They're getting together with their families. They're planning trips. They're not necessarily thinking about the office work, and it's also end of year. So everybody's wrapping up their financial business. Anne: Well, yeah, and anything that is needed for the new year, or to end the year for the holiday, for example, any holiday advertising, hopefully they've taken care of that months before. Right? And so during that end of the year, they're hopefully planning for what's happening, you know, in the beginning of the following year. Pilar: Right. But they're not concerned with, oh, I need to hire this. They're not necessarily as concerned as they would be let's say in a heavier year for that particular company, that particular business. So it's a great opportunity to sit there and look at your plans. Anne: Absolutely, absolutely. Look at where you are right now in your career and what can you do to grow? It's the most opportune time to market yourself or figure out, if you're not marketing yourself, how you can start or how you can market your better. Pilar: Exactly. So what can you do, let's say, in those slow months? Well, you can take a class, you can work on your craft. You can look at your emails from people you've done business with, people you want to do business with, do a little bit of research. Basically we are so lucky that we live in this day and age of the Internet, because all we have to do is Google a company and see what their practices are. You can see that the health and the range of a company you're going after, you know, XYZ company, say, well, what is it that they're, they're going after? What are their spots like? What are their radio spots like? What are their TV ads? What is their marketing push, and see what could be interesting for you, let's say if you're, if you're looking at a specific company. And then when you're looking at your own stuff, everyone has a different style. Some people are really organized. Some people are not. People have, you know, little tabs that they do. They have spreadsheets. Some people are fly by night. I'm a little bit of both. I like to make lists, but I'm not necessarily a spreadsheet kind of gal. So I'll sit there and look at -- I have a very specific list where I'll look at, you know, who have I heard from? Who have I not heard? Anne: I think it's a really good time to, if you don't have a CRM or if you either invest in a CRM or take a look at your list of clients that you do have. I have a couple of different CRMs that I work with, one of them specifically because I do a marketing program, the BOSS Blast for other clients. So I am looking at that CRM and finding out, when is the last time I contacted this person, if they're not on the list to get them on that list. And I love what you were talking about in terms of researching companies that you might want to try to reach out to and contact and investigate like what's their market like? What are their new products? What is their form of reaching out to potential clients? That's one of the things that I always tell my students to do is, hey, if you want to be aligned with a company, go check out their website, sign up for their mailing list. I know I'm like, I have so much email. This is why I have like 900,000 emails that are unread, but I sign up for a lot of company email lists so that I can find out how they are marketing. And this is part of my ongoing research anyway, to make sure that I'm current and relevant in the corporate realm of things, because I do a lot of corporate narration. But that also is a very good reference for commercials as well, because companies have products, and they advertise those products. So not just for corporate narrations but for commercials and basically all sorts of voiceover applications for researching companies and finding out who they're reaching out to. Maybe they're now reaching out to a younger demographic. So what does that mean for you? So keeping that research kind of at your fingertips can really help you for when you're auditioning starts picking back up or your jobs start picking back up because you're going to be really relevant and current with trends. And I think that that's so very important that you do that, especially if you're in the middle of your career, and you may not be actively coaching with anyone right now. It's something that I do almost on a daily basis. It's market research to find out what are the trends, what are, what's getting hired? How many people that I see posting on Facebook or that are just starting off that say they don't watch commercials. Oh my goodness, no. You have to watch commercials. That's like your homework. Pilar: Yeah. I think that that is just such a goldmine that people I don't think realize. And that's part of your homework. That's, as much as it is doing research on a company, it's being aware of like big events throughout the year. Anne: Sure. Pilar: Like the Olympics. Anne: Yeah. Cultural impact. Pilar: Like the Super Bowl. Like the Oscars, all those commercials that come on, inform us what the industries are interested in right now. Anne: And why am I watching the Super Bowl mostly this year? For the commercials? Pilar: Exactly. I don't want to downplay the, the actual Super Bowl -- Anne: Oh no, I'm not downplaying, but I -- look, if your team isn't in the Super Bowl, of course. Do you know what I mean? It's not, I'm not saying I'm not watching the Super Bowl for the Super Bowl, but I also, as much as I watch the Super Bowl for the Super Bowl, I watch it for the commercials. Pilar: Exactly. And it's so interesting when there's a big event going on, you're going to see the different patterns. Like for example, if you're watching the Olympics or any Olympics or any big event, whether it's the Emmys, or Country Music Awards -- Anne: Advertising changes, yeah. Pilar: -- they are focused. They have a very, very specific demographic that they're aiming for. So it's really key as a voiceover actor to see who are they aiming for and what is it that they want, and then contributing as part of that. Because if you don't put yourself in that whole part of the process, then you're missing out on a lot. So it's really important when you do have time to think of yourself as one of the cogs in the wheel that's getting this done as you are, you're planning your financial and your email marketing throughout the year. Anne: And speaking of spending time on yourself, right, while things are slow, you can absolutely take classes. There are so many wonderful opportunities out there for educating yourself and furthering your performance, furthering your, your business acumen, all types of classes that you can take, acting classes. You know, improv, we were just talking, we had a whole episode on improv, which was phenomenal. But yeah, doing something that can help you to really get your performance kicked up a notch so that you're ready for when those auditions do come around again. Pilar: Yeah. And even, even something as simple as yoga, tai chi, centering yourself, all of that is so important because that just adds, it just gives you colors and flavors. So when you go and you do an audition, it's basically like having your own proper tools to be able to stand in front of the booth when the time comes. Because for example, this has happened to me over and over again, where I'll get an audition the night before it's due the next day, you have to come up with this accent, or you have know about this product. And I'm like, I don't know about this product. So for me, like what you're doing in terms of looking at all those emails, all the marketing, seeing how these companies work, it basically for our general knowledge, it's always, it's always important to be sort of on the pulse of what's happening. Because when the time comes and you have that audition, you have to be able to just produce it, just like that, snap. So whatever it is, whether it's a new accent or it's a new product, or it's a new idea, and you're like, okay, what is this? So that, you know, you quickly have to Google, you want to be Googling and you want to be interested and looking at the world, because that's going to help you when you're sitting there by yourself, in the booth going, what is this? Anne: Oh, yes. Look at the, I like that. Look at while you're sitting there waiting, look at the world. That's such a cool concept though. Really, get out there and look at the world. And you know, what I really love too is if you're not watching television and listening to those commercials, right, which gives you a nice, I think, pulse on trends in voiceover coming up and as they are, you know, you can also go to a really great resource on the web, like YouTube or ispotTV is amazing if you want to go check out commercials. And you know what's interesting, really understanding and really listening. You know, how many times I've gone to, I spot and you listen to a commercial. You're like, okay, in my head, I hear it this way. But in reality, if you watch it, and I noticed that you had mentioned this before is to listen with no image, right? Don't look at it, but just listen to the voiceover. And I think that's a really, really great tip. I want you to just listen to the commercial and listen to the voiceover because there's so many times where we think we hear something, but yet when you really sit back and listen without any visual, without anything else that's disrupting your focus, you're going to be able to hear those nuances. And those nuances are so, so important. A lot of times with students, I'll be like, okay, go check out this YouTube. And I don't want you to watch it. I want you to just listen to the voice and how the notes are happening and the nuances and the emotion as this piece progresses. Listen to the nuances of the voice and how they are responding and telling the story and emoting and tugging at our heart strings. That I think is so, so important. That alone, if you spent a certain amount of time per day just doing that I think would really help your performance. Pilar: Yup. You would start knowing each company that advertises, they do have a signature. It's really subtle, but then you start learning what each company's signature is. And that's so important when you go into the booth because you know, when we go into the booth, we get a spot at 6:00, and everything's, it's always rushed. But if we take the time, when things are a little slower, and we're doing this on a daily basis -- again, I mean, I'm not saying spend all day watching TV, but you spend 10 minutes -- Anne: Consider it market research. Pilar: -- let's say a couple times a day in market research, it's for your own benefit. Anne: Sure. Pilar: Something that I, I really like doing, Anne, and I do this periodically is that I go over my old conference or class notes. How many times have you opened a book and go, oh yeah. I went to this class. Anne: That was a good class. I remember that. Yup. Pilar: Do I remember anything about it? No, probably not. But when I go and I look at my notes, I go, oh yeah, that, they made a really good point. That's really important. And I think that it's so important generally when you take a class, whatever it is. And let's say you write notes, go look at your notes immediately after you've taken the class, and then look at them again one week later. Because here's the thing about learning. You know, this, 'cause you have been an educator for such a long time. The very first time we get something or we hear it, we may not necessarily get it fully. Anne: Yeah. Get 100% of it. Yep. Pilar: So to maybe see it again, we need to -- Anne: Go back, review. Pilar: -- read it again. We need to explain it to somebody because that's when it really sinks in. Anne: Sure, if you have to teach -- that's so funny that you mentioned that because one of the things that I used to do when I was a teacher in front of the class was we would have project days where the students would propose to me something that they wanted to do for their grade, like a project. And so a lot of times I would say, all right, if you want to learn this, then I want you to teach it to me, teach it back to me. So that's a really great tip there is to go back and review because you'll, you'll get all those nuances that you might've missed the first time. It's like watching a great movie, right? When you watch it a second, third, fourth time, you get all the other nuances that you miss the first time. And that I think is a great analogy to reviewing your notes. And even if you have a recording of the session, I get a lot of conferences where I get the recordings, which I can look at later. Now how many times have you ordered a course online and then you forgot about it. Right? I actually have multiple courses. I actually have a bookmark of places to go where I've bought courses that I need to go and take, or I need to go back and listen again. And so I'm going to say probably that's going to be one of the biggest, best tips that we can give, because I know it's not just me that's kind of addicted once in a while of I want to learn this, let me buy this course. And then I promptly make a log-in, a password, and then I forgot about it until three months later. And then I'm like, oh wait, I bought that course. Let me go and actually take it. So that's a perfect thing to do when things are slow, make sure you have a place -- you know, I just have a bookmark of, of courses. And so it just reminds me to go back and revisit those courses again and again, and get my money's worth. Pilar: And get your money's worth, but also for me, it's always about how can I use it in the booth because it's that moment -- you know, VO BOSSes, I know you faced this. You're sitting in your booth and you're going, I don't know how to relate to this copy, or I'm tired. I want to go to bed. I'm falling asleep, but you have to push through because it's due at a certain hour. So it's, it's basically having those tools. And that's why it's so important to listen over and over to these things again, because they're all there to help you give your best performance in the booth, whether you're auditioning or whether you're working, we talk a lot about auditioning, but then you get the job, then what you do? So you, you have to be able to have all those tools at your disposal. So having that downtime enables us to be able to kind of just sort of hone them. It's kind of like, you know, filing your nails. Anne: You know what's so interesting too? You know what else you can do in your downtime? Pilar: Yeah? Anne: You can actually like take some downtime. Pilar: This is very true. Anne: That is actually going to -- like for me, like I'm working, working, working, working, working, and then all of a sudden, whoa. Now what? Actually, like, I don't know, take a nap, go play with your fur babies, watch a great movie. I always love to watch good movies to get inspired, listen to great commercials, that sort of thing. I watch the Dodo videos, which are all about animals, you know, being saved and helped and goodness with animals. And that always just gets me emotionally, and it makes me happy. And believe it or not, that helps my performance in the booth. So yeah, take some actual time for yourself as well, because it's important for you to refresh. Whatever, whatever it takes for you to feel good, go for a run, get on the treadmill, go floating, so many things, right, that can really just help you refresh and be -- live in the moment. You know, spend time with your family, go on a vacation. Pilar: And also it's knowing that slow time is not a reflection on your performance or your ability or anything, any of that. Anne: Right. Unless that slow time is extended like for six months or so. I mean, you, you want to make sure that that slow time -- but you know, I'll tell you what, a few days here and there a week, you know, it's, it's very, very common. So I remember those first in my career, first of all, if you can stick out your career, right, and you're in it for the long haul, you'll start to learn that these ebbs and flows are normal, and you'll get more used to them. You'll get better at, I think, working through them. But in the beginning, guys, it's okay. It happens. I know so many people that will come to me, like, I don't know, what am I doing wrong? It's just slow. And I'm like, well, you know, it's been a little bit slow. So, you know, give yourself some grace, right? And in the meantime, here's what you can do. The first thing is always educate, educate, educate, right? Educate yourself. Either build a CRM, educate yourself about your clients, educate yourself about the market, what's trending, take a class. Right? All of the things that we've already talked about, work on your marketing that can help you to educate and grow. It's just the best thing that you can do, whatever you can do to grow. Even if that means taking some time off, right? To relax and get your mental health back because it's so delicate, I think, in the beginning for people who are not used to this industry, right? It's very much a mental game, very much a mental game of confidence. And you need to know that it's okay, that you will have slow days, and you need to be able to do what you can to push through them, to build up your confidence, to build up your performance, do whatever you can to grow, grow, grow. And don't let it, you know, don't let the mind start to play tricks on you. Pilar: Something, I think that's also really important is reaching out for help. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: Because for years I didn't have a voice over agent in Miami. I just basically found the jobs by myself. I had an on-camera agent, but I didn't have a voiceover agent. So when I came to Los Angeles, I got a voiceover agent really quickly. And then I noticed that I, I worked and worked and worked on my auditions, and I started thinking, oh my gosh, what's, what's wrong? So I actually reached out to my agents and I said, okay, I'm not booking, what do I do? Anne: What a great idea. Pilar: And so they were so helpful, and they each had just one or two lines. I mean, you know, they're so busy. It's not like they have a whole bunch of time, but they suggested I get with a few coaches. I had actually gone to one or two that they mentioned, but then I went to some others. They had some really good, it's very short sentences of critiques. And I just took that. And I was like, okay, great. And I'm going to work on it. Anne: Yeah, I love that. Pilar: And I worked on it. Anne: I love that you reached out to your agents. I think people tend to forget that it is a two-way street. You guys are partners. And you know, I think it's wonderful. If your agent can take a moment and give you feedback. And I think any good agent will do that to help you, because you guys are partners. I mean, you help them make money. They help promote you. So I think that it's, it's important that you do reach out for help. And you know what, reach out for help from your peers too. I think peer groups can really help when things get tough -- Pilar: People that you trust, people that you trust. Anne: People that you trust, and when you get down on yourself or maybe you're, you're lacking confidence, a group like that can help. It's one of the reasons why I put together the VO Peeps group so long ago. We were also isolated and it was to have a community which we could lift each other up. And I think that that is, that is absolutely important, when things get slow and you start silently going, oh my God, do I even belong in this industry? That's time to reach out, you know, reach out to your community, reach out for help. We're all here for you. BOSSes. We're here for you. So you can always reach out and come to us for encouragement, confidence to lift each other up. Pilar: And if you don't see something like that in your community, go ahead and start one. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: Because for example, I, I, one day I just kind of lucked into this play reading class. They read new plays. It's every couple of weeks. And I go and I read. They give me a role and I read. Is there any monetary gain? No. Do I get a lot out of it? I get to read out loud. That's just priceless. I'm going to start another new reading accountability class. Anne: Yeah. I love that. I love that. Pilar: Just to read. D Anne: Don't let your auditions be your practice ground. Do you know what I mean? Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: Like I think that, you -- remember, your auditions or your work so glad you brought that up because you know, like I tell my students every day -- I give them enough homework, you know, I just like, I don't want you to be bored ever. You need to do something every single day that is voiceover related, and you need to practice. I think if you're at a certain level, it's wonderful to have that support of the community and to be able to work out and perform in front of each other. Be careful because depending on the group, you want to make sure you have somebody that has some experience in there that can give you some critique that is valuable to you. I think if there's a ton of, you know, maybe beginners in the peer group, it may not be as effective as it could be with somebody that has some experience in casting or directing. But it is so very valuable for you to practice that read every day. And don't let that be on your auditions. Really. Pilar: Yes. Anne: If you can spend 20 minutes a day just reading scripts, I think that that really, really helps, and also working out, it's another, again, another reason why I have VO Peeps, and we have workouts every month. We have a couple of different workouts every month. It's just so, so valuable to keeping those, those skills honed, and you know, and in check. So. Pilar: And I will give a tip that I think is probably the most important tip that I will give. If you have a cat, you can read to him. Anne: I love it. I love it. Yes. You can read to your fur babies. And your babies. Pilar: I just did that last night. I'm preparing a monologue for an audition. And I was like, you know what? He's right there. What the heck, why not? Anne: They're our biggest supporters. Pilar: They are. Anne: What a great conversation, Pilar. Great tips. Thank you so much. I'm excited. So remember guys, when things are slow, they don't have to be slow. You've got a lot of, you've got a lot of stuff to do. There's a lot of alternatives here. Pilar: You have a lot of homework. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: That's important. Anne: There you go. So I would like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, 100 Voices Who Care. This is a unique chance, guys, for you to use your voice and make a difference and give back to the communities that give to you. You can visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. Also love to give a great, big shout-out to our long-time sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect, and network like BOSSes like Pilar and I. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. We'll see you next week. Pilar: I'm so glad we had this time together. Anne: Good bye, goodbye. Pilar: Goodbye. Anne: Bye, guys. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Every script is the answer to a question. It's up to the actor to discover (and sometimes create) that question. In this episode, Anne & Pilar are here to keep you on your toes with improv techniques + exercises. They will teach you how to stay fresh with your reads, and - more importantly - why it's necessary to know the script, scene, and emotions for everything you read. Whether it be E-Learning, IVR, or commercial, you'll be ready to tackle it with authentic reactions + diverse copy interpretations like a #VOBOSS. Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast, con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey Pilar. I'm trying to figure out how to lead into today's episode. And I've been thinking about different scenes that maybe I could place myself in. So maybe I'll come at the introduction not like I've come at the introduction like people expect, so I want to do something different. So what are you thinking? Where can I start? Pilar: Where can you start? "Let's start at the very beginning. A very good place to start." What's that from? Anne: I'm on a mountainside. Pilar: No, quick, what's that from? Anne: No wait. Okay. I'm on a mountain side in the sun and I'm feeling like I'm very happy, and I want to sing because I dunno, I like to sing when I'm happy. Pilar: And you're twirling your arms. Anne: I am twirling my arms, and I'm going to not have a dress on with an apron. Okay. So, well, let's just put it this way. I'll have a dress on that really works with the twirl, but it won't have an apron on. Pilar: Nix the apron, okay. Anne: And I'm going to be young with long flowing hair. Pilar: Long blonde flowing hair. Anne: Yep. That's it. That's it. And there's going to be animals. Pilar: Okay. Anne: There's going to be, well, there'll be cats. Of course. Actually -- Pilar: How about llamas? How about llamas? Anne: Okay, cats and llamas I think go well, lots of cats. Pilar: Except that llamas spit. Anne: Yeah, but they're not going to spit on the cats. They're going to spit on me because maybe I'm not in tune. Pilar: You're going to ride off into the sunset on top of a llama. Anne: But then I'll make friends with the llama, and I will carry the cats in my arms and hop on the llama, and ride off into the sunset because I've had a wonderful morning and day of singing on the mountain side. Pilar: And you're singing "Do, a deer" at the same time.   Anne: Yes, exactly. Wow. Pilar: That's improv. Anne: Hey BOSSes. That's improv with that said, hey, everyone. I completely was so in the scene that I forgot my introduction. Pilar: You forgot who you were. Anne: I forgot who I was for just a moment. So here we go. Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, up on the mountain, singing and twirling with my cats and llamas, along with my special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar, come to the mountain and sing with me. Pilar: "The hills are alive with the sound of llamas." Anne: -- "VO BOSSes." Pilar: "Llamas and VO BOSSes." Anne: So Pilar, that was fun. Pilar: That was fun. Anne: I think understanding and practicing improv can really, really help us in our performance and in our business. So I think we should have today's episode featuring improv, and talking about improv, and how can we better our performances with improv? Pilar: Yes. Improv is something that I -- it's funny, 'cause I've always been scared of it, and I've never really understood it, although I've done it most of my acting career without realizing it. It's just really funny. We improv all the time in our lives when we're talking. So improv is all about taking what somebody is saying and you keep going. It's that? Yes. And moment with improv. That's that's like the biggest rule. Anne: Yes, and. Pilar: Yes, and, meaning -- Anne: Yes, and, and then what happens? Pilar: And then you add onto the story, and the intent is to be positive always. I mean, unless it's a tragedy kind of a thing which improv is, is really about it's taking whatever that person gives you and running with it, however you're going to do it, so. Anne: Well, I think it needs to fit into the context, right? So if we're going to try to improv and get ourselves into a scene for a script that already sits in front of us, so that maybe we can improve our auditions, right, there is some context to the script. Maybe we should just talk from genre specific right now, like commercial or corporate or e-learning, those types of -- versus character-driven spots like animation and video games. We can talk about that in a minute, but let's focus on the genres where people go in, and they have a commercial audition to get out the gate. Right? What is it that we're going to do once we look at the context of the script there, how are we going to work the improv into it? Pilar: What I've learned early on is it's so important to have a moment before. Anne: Yes. Agreed. Pilar: Especially if it's a product, let's say, that you don't know much about, or it's a storyline, let's say it's a medical narration, for example. And you're kind of, you know, what is this drug that has seven syllables? And I don't even know how to pronounce it. Well, you have to come in, if you're talking from a voice of authority, you have to come in with that knowledge. Anne: Right. Pilar: Now, you don't necessarily have to have knowledge of that particular drug. You can use something else that you have knowledge about. And then you set the stage by making up like a little sort of maybe 15-second play, which can be your lead-in which you don't have to record, but you're making the story up about this particular product and how it affected you. And you basically just start doing storytelling. Anne: Well, I think that's absolutely wonderful advice. And I think too, again, going with the context of it, let's kind of go with the medical, right? Because I do a lot of medical work, medical narration. I think it's important to know that in this storyline who you're talking to, and a lot of times people will, if want it to be conversational, they'll say something like, oh, as if you're talking to your best friend, but I think you need to go deeper into this, because you want to talk to a person that's genuinely going to be interested in that product because your task in most copy like that is either going to be to educate or to sell. So you need to be very clear as to who you're speaking with. And I think that that needs to come into your improv, understanding that let's say you might be a pharmaceutical representative, that's coming into an office and speaking to a doctor who might be interested in this particular medicine that might be able to help his patients. And so going with that, setting that scene and then improv-ing in that before you even open your mouth, because that will help you develop a point of view that makes sense and an emotion that makes sense and a voice that makes sense for that scene. Pilar: Yeah. Yeah. Very true. And what you were saying, which ties right into that is the more specific you are, the better. Anne: Yes. Agreed. Pilar: A lot of the times, if you're doing medical copy -- let's say you've got the job. It's not like you're going to rewrite it or change, necessarily change the words, but you can give it a little bit of flavor by imagining different scenarios while you're speaking. Anne: And thinking of different subtexts too. Pilar: Yeah. Even like, you know, breaths or -- Anne: Rhythm. Pilar: Yeah. And just like little inflections that aren't necessarily in the script itself are going to give it a different flavor. Anne: I like that. Pilar: Yeah. So because it can't be all about the reading. It's -- there has to be -- a lot of people say, oh, well, you know, they, they won't let me improv. And it's like, it's not necessarily, it's about using those moments of improv where you can just kind of give a little inflection here, do a little something over there. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Like that scene is playing while you are voicing the script, right? There's a scene that's playing. And so that improv, it doesn't necessarily have to come out in words, right? The improv, like you said, can be in breaths. It can be in rhythm. It can be in, again, if it's a medical narration and you're informing somebody about the capabilities of the product, right, it can be that subtext where maybe you're looking at the person that you're speaking to and they're not quite understanding. So you become more confident or you've slowed down on that explanation a little bit more. And so the subtext is, let me help you understand better what I'm saying. And so that improv comes into your scene, as you are voicing and into the storyteller, the sell of the spot. It really is something that I think adds a really nice layer and a realistic, authentic layer to when you are voicing. And this, by the way, does not allow you any time to listen to what you sound like. Again, I say this over and over and over again. Right? You cannot listen to what you sound like and say, oh, does that sound like they want it? No, you have to be in that improv, that story, in that scene, and really being there and telling the story. Pilar: I just want to clarify something for the VO BOSS warriors, that everyone thinks of improv as Second City or Saturday Night Live, but improv, you can use some of those rules and those tips of improv to give your script a different flavor, whether it's medical narration, whether it's e-learning, whether it's even, let's say, IVR, and you're saying, you know, "please hold." You know, you don't have to sound like the mechanical thing that you've always heard. If you maybe make a joke to yourself right beforehand, or you imagine something very specific. Anne: Imagine the person that's picking up the phone and listening to you and they're angry. Pilar: There you go. Anne: Because they want to speak to a person, right? So you're in that scene, and they're screaming at the other end. Right? And you're like, "thank you for calling. Your call is important to us." So as they're screaming, so it can change your voice. Right? It can change the way you're responding in a very interesting way, because I always used to say that I love telephony because I imagine that that person is on the other end of the line, and that they're not happy and they're concerned, they want to get to somebody quickly. So I actually will speed up a little bit. As long as I'm articulate, I'll speed up. I'll be kinder. And I'll try not to be that annoying sound at the other end of the line that I even get annoyed with. Pilar: Yes. Yes. And the important thing is specificity, which you've just mentioned. It's just to be as specific as possible. Anne: Right, because your message, when you're, that let's say telephony, right -- and this is crazy. We're talking about improv with telephony and medical narration, like the two genres that nobody would think, right, that you would use improv with, but think about telephony for a doctor's office, right? People are typically, they're not feeling well, or they're calling for maybe a member of the family that's not feeling well; they're upset. They could be nervous. They could be scared. And so that puts a different light on how I'm going to voice my message, right? Versus maybe a party store, you know, so understanding that scene and who you're going to be talking to again, is paramount. It is so important to get yourself in that scene and then play that scene before you even start talking. Because again, that helps you hit the notes. It helps you hit the emotion, the point of view that you need to be in once you start voicing that copy. Pilar: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. All true. Anne: Let's talk about a commercial, commercial genre, right? Pilar: Okay. Anne: Because I think a lot of people think that might be more resonant with them. It might come to them simpler if you're thinking about a commercial, because there's, I think there's more realms of scenes that can take place. There's more emotions that can take place. It could be a funny commercial. It could be a serious commercial. It could be all different types of commercials and scenarios that are, and you have to create that scene and improv your way into the voicing. Pilar: And here's the thing. If you listen to actors, when they talk about the roles that they did, when they admit, they say, well, no, actually it was all scripted, and you sit there and you go, oh, hey, how did they do that? It looked completely improv. That's because they had a very, very specific pre-life into going into the scene. Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Pilar: Since as voice actors, we don't have to memorize. We've got the copy right in front of us. We can mark our script up. We can imagine a scene beforehand. There's always the moment before, you know, who, what, when, where and why you're talking. Anne: Right. Pilar: And then you bring those colors in. And this is something that I always think about too, when I'm doing commercial copy. And this is Mary Lynn Wisner taught me this, what is the answer I'm giving? There's always a question. So put the question before, and then you give the answer. Anne: Right. Act, react. Pilar: Right, exactly. And all those things being specific and question and putting yourself in the scene, let's say you're a Taco Bell. Don't just read the Taco Bell. Imagine you're sitting at a Taco Bell and you're looking at, at the menu and you're going, oh my gosh, the waffle. I mean, I don't go to Taco Bell anymore because, cause I will order that big, huge mother of a waffle thing. And it's so delicious and it's so caloric. So I'd like I have to stay away from them. So I like, I give that to myself once a month as like a prize. But if you focus on the scene and that -- Anne: Maybe you're eating that in the scene. And so you'll have a different reaction. Pilar: Right. You're chomping on it. And it's like, you know, the, the sour cream and the avocados just spilling down your mouth and everything, you know, and the more colorful details you give yourself, the more that's going to come out in your read. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and you know, what's interesting is commercial spot, I think sometimes when there's dialogue, it makes things easier for the improv when it's a dialogue or first person written. I know that when I do dialogue spots for, let's say, e-learning characters in e-learning -- when it's a written dialogue on the piece of paper, I find that there are so many -- it's harder than most people think, because I'll find that initially people will read the dialogue instead of being in the dialogue. And that's where improv can really help you because set that scene. And what it will do is if you are engaged in that scene -- Let's say you're walking in the hallway with your colleague, Sally, and you want Sally to make sure she gets the accounting numbers to Joe before Friday. You can, as you're walking along, "oh Sally." And then you imagine yourself walking, right? And so the rhythm of your line that you're going to say is going to change as you're thinking about, "oh, we need you to get these numbers to Joe by Friday because he's going to need them for this." So it will really change the rhythm as you're walking along or creating that scene, as you're thinking of things to say to Sally, in order to get your point across, because that's what will happen. All that like subtext, where she's looking at you going, "why do I have to get these to Joe by Friday? Because this is a lot of work, Anne." You know, so that kind of improv where you're imagining that as you were speaking of voicing, the dialogue can really, really help. Pilar: Yup. Yup. Absolutely. Location is so important. Putting yourself into the scene wherever you are, focusing on the here and now of it. Because a lot of the times we think, okay, I have to get through the copy or it's 30 seconds. Forget all that. The most important is what is going on right at this moment? What is the, the person who is not maybe physically there, but you are speaking to someone, are they standing next to you? Are they standing moving away from you? And you're trying to get their attention? "Oh my goodness, let me get your attention," and all that stuff you can put, you know, obviously you can put into your body, but you can put into your intention and that's how you can improv a scene or a, a commercial or, you know, a piece of longer copy. So the here and now, the establishing the location -- Anne: And establishing movement, movement through it. Pilar: Establishing movement. Yes. Anne: Yeah. That's the biggest thing I find people forget is they'll set the scene up, but then they'll forget to move through it. They'll set it up and the first sentence will be very much in the scene. But then after that first sentence, they just go into their own little monologue, and they forget about the scene. They forget about who they're interacting with. And again, that movement through the scene and the sound as if you're moving through the scene is super important. Now there's a lot to be said for leading in to help you get into that. But I think just the verbal lead-in is not enough to get you through an entire piece of copy, because we can't be completely improvising every single line, but we can certainly lead into a line that helps us get to the place where we need to be. And some of those can even be left -- I would say in the commercial genre, you can kind of, oh, you can kind of lead in with maybe a, a sound, I think, maybe a little bit of a word, but in other types of copy, let's say for narration, corporate narration, medical narration, telephony, you can't really keep those lead in words in there, but they can certainly help you as to get you in the place. And then you can, you can take them out. I mean, we all, we all know how to edit our stuff. So if it helps you get there, I say, leave it in and then take it out in post, you know? Pilar: Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. But like extending a sentence. We don't say words the same way. We don't talk the exact same rhythm, every single -- I mean, some people do, but I'm always speeding up and slowing down. So why wouldn't I put that in? I mean, and it depends, obviously, because sometimes, you know, if you're doing a biography, you do need to have a certain pace, but -- and I'm speaking specifically for commercial copy, but improv is also about changing. It's like how the character changes. In a 30-second piece, there's always like, there's a problem. It's described. Anne: There's a solution. Pilar: And then there's the solution at the end. So the person reading the copy is going to go through all these changes, and they're not necessarily going to say them at the same time. Anne: Right. Pilar: So change is a big part obviously of, of that, which you can incorporate into, into the copy. Anne: And change, even in the middle of sentences, right? 'Cause emotion, because right, you've got a problem. Commercial copy, usually you have a problem or an implied problem. And then you have a solution. So as you have this problem, you know, it's I kind of have this problem, but oh, now I've got a solution. You can hear the change, right? You can hear the change within even a sentence. And that's where that improv and subtexts and imagination and being in the scene can really help you to make that a more authentic and believable voicing. Now question, Pilar. What about commercial copy that's written very selly, that doesn't seem to have, you know, those are always the ones that people talk about. They're like, oh God, look at the way they wrote this copy. And now they want me to sound like I'm talking to my best friend. So what are your tips there? Pilar: Well, honestly, I mean, that's not true. I mean, I get pieces of copy and I go, wow, this is really good. But a lot of the times they'll tell you, you want to sound, you know, conversational. That's like the big, the big word, conversation -- Like you're not going to, you're going to sound like a robot, but conversational and not announcer-like, and then they give you this copy. And you're like, you know, what do I do with it? You break it down, you break it down into beats. You run through it. You sing it. Anne: Question, answer. Right? Act, react. Pilar: Yes, question, answer. Right. Anne: For every sentence. Pilar: Yes. But that's not what you're going to put into the final part of the copy. Anne: No, no. Pilar: But it's basically like when you've got a piece of copy that you have to work on, it's like stretching your body. You have to stretch your body. So whatever, like let's say, I'm stretching my arms right now, and I'm stretching them forward. I'm also going to stretch my arms up, and I'm going to stretch my arms to the back. I'm not just going to do it one way. I think voice actors get a little stuck, and they go, oh, okay. I did it this way. This sounds okay. Let me stay there. And then we get stuck. 'Cause that happens to me all the time, and I'll listen back and I'll be like, what are you talking about, Pilar? All three reads were exactly the same. So I have to go back and I have to like, and I think I've used this before on the podcast, but it's kind of like when my dog would turn around three times and then, you know, all of a sudden he would go and do something else. And my cat does the same thing. So I, I do that too, because I realized that if I turned around three times really quickly, I either get dizzy or I start laughing, but I don't go back to where I was before. So I need that change. You know, improv is all about change. So it's like, if you get stuck, all you need to do is shake it off, go outside, touch your toes, scream in the booth, and start again because that's going to give you a little bit of a different scenario so you don't slide into that sameness, that sameness of reading the copy the same way. Anne: Then when your director is asking you for that ABC take, right, improv is going to help you get there. I'm always like -- Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: You know, and I've said this before on a previous episode, everybody thinks about let's do the different sounds. This is take A. This is take B. This is take C. And that just is a, a simple, like change in your pitch. It's not even -- I want you guys, you BOSSes out there to really improv your way into ABC. And that is a skill, that is a muscle that, if you work on it, can really improve your ABC reads or your second take. And that is so important that, that second take, that ABC, they're all different. And I think there could be an entire like course on ABC takes and how you can get to them better because they do have to be different. And there's a lot of times myself even, Pilar, where I'm like, okay, let me give a second read. Right? And I haven't done the work enough. And I listen to that second read. I'm like, oh, that's kind of sounds the same. So really spend the extra moments and figure out what's happening in the scene or a change in the scene that can give you a different, alternate take. And don't just do the start of it. Right? Don't just say, okay, well now I'm on a mountain. Here, I'm in my office. But start and continue throughout the script. As you're reading the script, things change, right? The product solves your problem. And so then there's an evolution, and it may evolve in a different way. So create the scene all the way through the text. I would say, create the scene, be in the scene between the periods of the copy. Pilar: Yeah. I mean, I think it's simple that you could say, let's say for example, off the top of my head, um, I'm going to the store this morning. So I could say it, oh my God, it's 10:00, I'm going to the store this morning. Anne: Exactly. PIlar: Oh my God. I forgot the tomato sauce. I'm going to the store this morning. Or, oh my God, they're coming. They're coming at 7:00 and at six 15, I'm going to the store. I'm going to the store this evening. You know, I mean, and I'm exaggerating, but I just did three to four ideas. Anne: You just got up and you had a plant. I'm going to the store this morning, right? Pilar: Right. Or, or like, I'm going to, I'm going to surprise you. I'm going to the store this morning. Anne: I like that. Pilar: So you've just created different worlds. Anne: You just had four or five different reads, exactly different worlds, different scenes to react to. And that's where, BOSSes, I want you to start practicing, take a sentence, a tagline, and think of three different scenarios for it. Or take every piece of copy that you ever auditioned for and give yourself different scenes. Or maybe just take a line out of it and give yourself different scenes so that you can read it differently. And don't think about what sounds like. Don't think about what it -- think about being in the scene and reacting to the scene and improv-ing that scene. That's what's going to get you that different read. Pilar: Yeah. It's really important too, because I, I didn't even know what improv was, even though I was doing it. I was always a little scared of it. And so like, when I was working in Colombia, I used to improv all the time, not realizing that that's what I was doing, but stuff would come out of my mouth, and I would just do it. And they'd be like, oh my gosh. Yeah, let's keep that. And then I finally finally, because I read books about it and I would take like classes here and there. But finally, when I came out here to LA, I took an improv class at Second City. And then all of a sudden it all came together because all this stuff I'd kind of heard willy nilly randomly and what I'd seen and the way television and movies, people improv-ing, I was like, oh, that's what it is. You know, there, there are rules and there are things that you can do. And so I, you know, I think it's important. I mean, you know, that we are still going through what we're going through, but there are classes online that you can take. Anne: Absolutely. I've got one coming up as a matter of fact. Pilar: Oh, oh really? Oh, okay. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. With Scott Parkin, who is amazing -- Pilar: He's awesome. Anne: He is awesome at improv. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. He's really good. Yeah. And so it's about becoming loose because that's the whole point. When you're in the booth, then that's why you need to take classes. 'Cause it's like exercising that muscle. Anne: Yes, it's a muscle. Pilar: So when you're in the booth by yourself, and you've got a piece of copy, and you're like, what do I do with it? You've got these tools that you can use, the yes, and, the imagining, the being specific, you know, the being goofy. And you never know what's going to come out, but allowing yourself the space to say something and fall down and maybe not have it be right, and that's okay. Anne: Absolutely. I mean, I think that that is all part of it. Right? If it didn't work out, no, that's okay. Right? This is improv. Right? You change the scene. Right? Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. Because one thing that's really important to know is that yes, improv is an art, but it's also a craft. You have to practice it. You have to work on it. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's a daily thing. Like honestly, I think you should take a sentence every day and give yourself three different scenes and three different ways. And I think do that, or do that with your auditions, right? Do that with your auditions daily. Even if you don't have an audition, take an old audition and do that. And I'll tell you what, it will keep you, I think, on your toes. And it will give you a better performance. What a great discussion, Pilar. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: So much fun. Pilar: That was really fun. Anne: So much fun. BOSSes, make sure that you get in the booth and practice, practice, practice, and that will help you perform at your very best. I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network like a BOSS and find out more at ipdtl.com. Thanks so much, Pilar. Pilar: Thank you. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: You know, there's a new song that just came into my head when you said that it could be like, "network like a BOSS, network like BOSS" Anne: Who! Pilar: "Network like a BOSS. Yeah. Yeah." Anne: Alright. BOSSes. Have a great week, and we'll see you next week. Pilar: Bye. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. 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Do you know the difference between dubbing, ADR, walla walla, and looping? In this episode, Anne & Pilar cover it all. Since the pandemic, there has been a boom in content creation globally. Dubbing movies & TV shows into other languages, and creating audio descriptions for the visually impaired has made content much more accessible and given voice artists more work! Stay tuned for Pilar's experience with voice dubbing + Anne's tricks for lending your voice artistry to on-screen performances like a #VOBOSS. >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast, con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza along with my very special guest cohost, Pilar Uribe. Pilar. How are you today? Pilar: Hola, Anne. ¿Cómo estás? Anne: Ah, tired. I am tired. Pilar. You know, why? Pilar: Why? Anne: Because I binged watched the entire season of "Succession" last night and ah, oh my gosh. Pilar: It's so good. Anne: So good. Pilar: So many cliffhangers. Anne: I know. Oh my gosh. Pilar: Yeah. I loved it. Anne: And I'll tell you what, sometimes I stay up later than my husband, so I'm always putting on subtitles. And when I put on subtitles, it makes me think of all these shows now that are coming out in streaming media, and dubbing, and ADR and all of these techniques that are coming out and really offering a lot of jobs these days to people in the VO industry. And I thought we should talk about dubbing and ADR for a little bit. What do you think? Pilar: Yup. Dubbing is very close to my heart. Anne: Oh my goodness, and it's just since the pandemic, just an explosion of so much content and media, and you have had some experience dubbing. I personally have not had much at all. I went to a training class on dubbing, but talk to me about dubbing because that's something I think you actively do, right? Pilar: Yes. Yes. That's where I got started in voiceover. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I did like two series in Colombia. There were animated, but I actually cut my teeth on dubbing. Dubbing is a skill like any other, and it requires being a good actor. Anne: Wait, back that truck up again and say that very important, right? When you watch dubbing shows and of course, what is the latest one? When people are talking about the quality of the dubbing, there is something that was recently released, and we don't have to name it, but there was talk about how the dubbing was not great. There was not great actors. So I think acting is so, so important to be a good dubbing actor. Pilar: Well, if you want to see examples of bad dubbing, just go to the Godzilla movies. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: It's hysterical. Anne: You're right. Pilar: Those are so funny to watch. But since Netflix has -- and HBO as well and uh, and Amazon, since they have entered the marketplace, uh, you know, over the past couple of years, and when I started back in two thousand... I guess I started dubbing in 2010, Netflix, wasn't really doing that much. They've been doing more and more in HBO, and Netflix is just all over the place. They have so much content. So one of the things that they look for is, yes, are you a good actor? Because you have to be able to portray what is being said in whatever language it is, whether it's, you know, German or Spanish or Portuguese, you need to be able to portray those same emotions. So it's kind of like, 'cause I used to actually teach dubbing. It's kind of like, you're like a one man band stand. You remember those little, those figures of the monkey where they have -- Anne: Yes, they play the tambourine. They play the drums. Yeah, absolutely. Pilar: All at the same time. Anne: You have to do it all. Pilar: It's kind of like being a drummer because if you look at a drummer, he's got one beat going in one arm, another beat going in the other arm, and he's got two different beats going in his, with his legs. Anne: Yeah. So Pilar, just to back up just a little bit, I want to make sure that, because we are going to talk about both dubbing and ADR, what exactly is dubbing? Let's just clear up the definition. Pilar: Yes. So dubbing is when you have got a telanovela, say, or a movie in Spanish, and they are speaking in Spanish. And they want you to put your voice onto that person's body basically so it sounds -- Anne: In another language. Pilar: In another -- in English, in English. So if it's in Spanish, they want you to dub exactly what they are saying in Spanish into English. Anne: Right. Or vice versa. Pilar: Or vice versa. Anne: Or any other language. Pilar: Or any, 'cause it doesn't matter. I mean, I've dubbed in Chinese, from Chinese to English, German, Swedish. It depends on the project. Anne: Do you dub mostly in English or in Spanish? Or both? Pilar: I actually do both. Yeah. I do both. Yeah. I do more other languages to English because that's what the demand is, but I definitely do a lot of times English to Spanish. Anne: Okay. Pilar: So basically when you walk into the booth, and you are given a movie or an episode that is in whatever language it's going to be, and I will say this, just because I speak Spanish and French, that doesn't necessarily help you when you're dubbing. Sometimes it can actually be a hindrance because you're listening and you're going, wait a minute. They're not saying exactly what they're saying in English, so. Anne: Ah, yeah. There's translation there. Pilar: Yeah. You do not have to know the language that you're dubbing at all for anybody who has that kind of question. Anne: We should clarify too, you said, when you walk into the studio. Now, this is typically done in a studio, right? It's not something that we can do remotely. Pilar: Yeah. I would say when we went through the past two years, and everybody had to go inside, there was obviously, it was only remote. So I did a lot of things remotely, but ideally they want you to be in the same studio because you are recording with the same mic and in the same environment. Anne: Got it. That makes sense. Pilar: And that's when it makes it really, really makes a difference. So a lot of times they would send kits out. Studios would send kits. So everybody would have the same exact setup in their booth. Anne: Got it. And you're talking about the same mic as what was recorded in the movie? Is that what you're talking about? Or -- Pilar: No, no, because this is voiceover. So, you know, whatever, whatever the movie is, you know, they have different mix for that. Although actually -- Anne: That's what I was thinking. Like they wanted to specify what kind of mic was being used. That's what I was. Pilar: Yeah. But that was, you know, more so for, for just voiceover. Anne: Got it. Pilar: So what's ironic is that, you know, the Sennheiser, it was originally a mic used on sets, but generally for dubbing, you know, they have their own extremely high powered mics. I mean, I was in a session the other day, and I was standing very far away from the mic technically 'cause here I'm, you know, I'm standing pretty close to the mic, and that mic picks up everything. I mean that mic picks up a burp. That mic picks up a little breath, and it's, it's just amazing. So yeah, they generally want you to go into the studio, and so you get there, you walk in. And of course now with all the protocols, everything is, you know, sanitized and wiped down. And usually you're asked to bring your own headphones. You go in and you watch a piece of copy, and the dubbing director will explain. And there's also the engineer. Anne: You mean you watch a video? Pilar: Yeah. You watch a piece. Yeah. So you've got the mic in front of you. You've got the video. And so you're seeing it in the original language. So you get to see it -- now, here's the thing. Out here in LA, you actually get a dress rehearsal. The majority, I would say 99% of the time when I lived in Miami, I didn't get a dress rehearsal. It was just like -- Anne: Oh wow, go. That's tough. Pilar: Get out of the stable and go. Yeah. Anne: Because you have to match the lip. Pilar: Right. And you don't know what's coming. So when you're doing a character, but because I was doing so much of it, what I learned to do is after like an episode or two, I would see what that actor's rhythms were. So then I could mimic and kind of go with her breaths and where she did sighs and where she stopped because I was always looking at her lips. But I also -- see, that's the thing. That's why I brought in the analogy of the drummer. So what are you doing when you dub? You are watching the screen. You are acting because you're doing what the other, what that character in front of you is doing. You are voicing, you're reading, and you're adding your own breaths. So you're also usually seeing the -- I mean, at least that, that was the case in Miami, not so much out here, but you're seeing the script for the first time. Anne: Right, right. Pilar: So you're doing all these things. You're employing more than one sense, and you're doing it without a dress rehearsal. Anne: Wow. Pilar: It's kind of intense. Anne: That's a lot. And I remember my class was just like that. I mean, we did not even really know the copy that was coming up when it was coming up. And we had not really, we did not have a dress rehearsal, so it's a lot of things to do at once. And so what are the prerequisites for you as a voice actor that wants to get into dubbing? What sort of things should you do if you want to make this part of your career to get good at it? Pilar: So the most important thing is listening, and observing, and putting yourself into that character's shoes for however long you are in the booth. So I played this character a while back, and it's out on Netflix now. And it's a terror series. It's literally terrifying. I said to my mom, listen, I'm going to give you the times that my character is there because I don't want you to see anything else because it's so terrifying. It's so, so scary. Anne: Oh, I'm gonna assume that you just did this one and that you had a dress rehearsal. So you had an idea of what the whole show was about. Right? And I think that that helps, right? Pilar: Well, rehearsal means you. Yeah. You get to see the scene, but you don't really know what you're getting into because you haven't seen the moments before. You're just looking at when you are speaking as a character. Anne: Got it, got it. Pilar: So it's up to you to -- Anne: Understand the vibe. Pilar: And not just that, but that's what I mean by you really have to be completely on because you are looking and you're listening at the same time. You're evaluating what that character is doing at that moment and why -- Anne: What happened. Pilar: -- are you doing it, right. Anne: And what might've happened beforehand so you can act, right? Pilar: Exactly. Yeah. And then you have to do it and you only get one dress rehearsal. So you have to be very acutely aware. You have to be present in the booth. So what they do is you'll do a scene on, they'll give you a pass of the entire scene and then you'll go back. You'll do another take or you'll do pick-ups. They do give you headphones. But if you have really good headphones, it's great to bring those with you. 'Cause you have to hear every nuance with that character -- where are they breathing? Anne: Now, are they doing sentences at a time? Or just periods of time when this character is talking? Is there back and forth between dialogue from other characters? Pilar: Oh yes, absolutely. Yes. Anne: They will do an entire, let's say three minutes of the characters going back and forth? So you have to also watch the other character and then react. Right? Pilar: Absolutely. Yes, exactly. And so here's the thing. Back in the day, I used to get pieces of paper, and then they switched to the monitor, and now there's this thing, that's, it's a band. And it was, I think it was invented actually in France, if I'm not mistaken. And it's a band that goes at the bottom of your screen, and most of the companies that I've worked for, the studios that I've worked for, they all use this. So it's a band, and it's in your specific color for that episode. So like my character, Anna, Anna's lines are going to be in green. They're going to have the highlight green. But then I'm also listening to the other characters and their lines are there as well. Anne: But not in green, obviously. Pilar: No, they're like in purple or whatever, but I have to be very aware of who's speaking when. Anne: So you have to look at the bottom of the screen, which has the band. Plus you also have to understand where the lips are happening and when they're saying it, so you've got to go, you've got to look from the bottom of the screen to the lips. Pilar: Yes, ma'am. Anne: And so that is fast focusing I'm sure. Pilar: Totally. Anne: And total focus and it's got to be exhausting. I can't imagine like when you're doing a dubbing session, how long are you doing a dubbing session for? An hour, two hours, five hours? Pilar: The standard time is two hours. Anne: Okay. But that has got to be an exhausting two hours sometimes. Pilar: It can be exhausting, but it's really exhilarating because you're in the booth, and I always stand. Anne: I can't imagine sitting when you have to be that focused and on top of things. Pilar: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. You have to use the whole body. But I rest, like when they're doing, when they're trying to decide between the dubbing director and the engineer, you know, do we do this? Do we do that? Um, and they're rewinding and they're trying to sync it up and everything. So, so that's when I can just take a little break, drink some water. They tend to be generally two hour sessions. I've done, you know, up to four. You know, it's, it's, it is work. It's a lot of work. Anne: But so now that you have the band that's running on the screen, right, do you have a copy as well of the actual script at all in front of you? Pilar: No, nope. Anne: Because I remember when I took my class, I had both. I had the script that was down in front of me, but I also had to keep my eye on the screen as well and the lips of the actor that I was dubbing. So it was a lot, but when they were doing whatever work they needed to do in the studio, I was kind of looking at the script coming up next so I could get a little familiar with it. Pilar: Yeah. It actually depends on the studio because there was a studio that did the paper. I don't know if they still do because you know, things have evolved in the past couple of years. It kind of depends. But sometimes you do, sometimes you do get a paper, which in a way is actually worse because you have to look farther down. I'd rather have it on the screen. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Pilar: But whatever it is that you're doing, whether you have a piece of paper in your hand, or you're looking at it on a monitor, or you're looking at the stuff on one screen and the script on another screen, 'cause that also happens, whatever it is that you do, you have to learn to read quickly. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And so you're basically constantly evaluating and looking at getting the information. So then you can spit it out -- Anne: Yeah, right. Pilar: -- and then move on to the next moment that that character has. Anne: So dubbing is going into the studio and having the band and checking the lip movement of the actor that you're replacing, right, that you're dubbing. Now what's looping then. So that's dubbing. What's looping then? Pilar: Looping, technically it's called ADR, which is additional dialogue replacement. Like, so for example, let's say there is a scene where there are two people in a restaurant, and they're outside in a cafe, in a little restaurant cafe in New York. And you know, there are people going back and forth, and there are people walking on the street, and there are people inside. And then there's the person at the bar. All that noise, all that noise gets put in, in post. None of that is real because basically what they figured out, and sometimes you can get it, but there's so much incidental noise. So you're going to get a honking of a horn or somebody shouting that they can't control all those extra elements. So what they do is that they come back, and once the scene is done and it's ready -- or let's say the actress spoke really low. So she was looking at her food saying, "I don't love you anymore." So it's like, they didn't get that. They didn't get that from the mic, the boom that was hanging, you know, five feet above her. So the actors come back. So basically it's like background extra work but for voices. Anne: Is that not also called Walla Walla? Pilar: So Walla Walla is a type of ADR. Walla Walla is kind of like, you're just kinda like talking and it's like -- Anne: So many terms. Pilar: -- rhubarb, peas, and carrots, rhubarb, peas, and carrots. This is what I used to do on stage. You know, when you, when you weren't speaking, but you had to look like you were talking sure. Then there's something called call-outs where you say -- so each character sits there and says, "hey, I'm going to the store. I'll see you later." And so it's like, you're literally having like a pretend conversation. And so ADR has, you know, so many different -- ADR has its own genres too. Anne: So dubbing is not necessarily related to ADR and looping. Pilar: ADR, I would say it's like a, it's like a third cousin, second or third cousin, because there are aspects of it. So for example, I did a movie last year, which came out, I guess it came out at Christmas? It was called "Eternals". It was a Marvel movie. And of course, you know, when you sign up for something like that, you sign NDAs up to an inch of your life, and you can't say anything. And so the only reason I'm saying it is because I asked them -- Anne: Now you can. Pilar: - I asked them, yeah. Now you can, and now it's out. And so, you know, the person who hired me was like, yeah, it's okay. 'Cause I always check. And that's something that's really important. Whatever it is that you're doing, when it's like dubbing or, or ADR, they're going to make you sign NDAs. So in fact, at one studio, they make you put your cell phone in a little box before you walk in and lock it up because they don't want any kind of -- Anne: That makes sense. Pilar: You know, they bought the rights, it's their property. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: And so to have some actors sit there and go, oh, I was at this studio and I was dubbing look at me is just, I mean, come on. You know, you've just ruined all their hard work. So -- Anne: Exactly. Pilar: -- in the world of dubbing, they're very, very demanding on that. You know, you can't say a word. Anne: Well, that makes a lot of sense. And I'm glad that you brought it up because how many times have we seen a voice actor, either bragging on social media, or here's a picture of me leaving and just thinking that nobody will see that, that is a big, big, big no-no. So yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense that you don't want to give away any, any secrets until they're revealed. I get that. Pilar: Because basically when you are an actor, you are lending your voice. That's what you're doing, or you're lending your acting to the project. The project isn't yours. You don't own the project. Anne: It's a great point. Pilar: You know, I remember one time I did this commercial. Magic, the big basketball player, Magic Johnson. I mean, I'm seeing him right now. And all of a sudden I had a brain fart in his name. So it was a commercial and he was, he's so adorable and he's so nice. And so we were all gathered around, and of course at the end they let us take pictures. And so of course I took my picture and I had it in my phone. And then literally a couple of weeks later, I see this actor post and like, "hey yeah, I got, I was, I was," and I was like, what are you doing? The commercial isn't out, that's not yours. That's their material. Somebody owns that material. And you have to respect that this is a situation. So for something like a Marvel movie, you know, you sign NDAs up the wazoo. Anne: Oh yeah, I've seen people get fired. Pilar: Yeah. And -- Anne: Hard. Fired Hard. Pilar: To be honest, I, I can't blame them because it's like, it's, it's not my material to come -- to go out and play with. So with ADR, and this all changed in the pandemic too, because with ADR, what you would do is that you would go with a group of people, and you would be in the same room with them. So that's where you have these things called donuts, which is you walk around and you do these sort of loops. And you talk as you pass by the microphone. And then the call-outs where you're "hey, let's go get some ice cream" kind of a thing. And "Dr. George Michael to line one in, you know, room 222," that kind of a thing. So that all went away. And so now when you go to a studio, we were all separated. So we were in the same studio, but we were all in different booths. So that's the difference. So it's all, you're not together. Anne: Right, during the pandemic. Pilar: Right during, yeah, exactly. Pilar: So they had to kind of change that the way that, that happens. Anne: Also, so not just that, there's also, if you need to replace a line, right. If they couldn't get the actor, if they couldn't get the line or they changed the line, and they could get the actor back in, sometimes there's just a line replacement. Pilar: Yeah. Right. Exactly. And that will happen, let's say, with a specific actor, but when you're talking about ADR, like when you're in that scenario that I said about the coffee shop, there are people talking. So you need to have, let's say, if you're doing a cop show, you need to have the lingo all ready to go, you know, and they encourage you to bring -- paper makes noise, but like iPads. And then you have your "Adam 24," you know, that kind of a thing or "nurse code blue," you know? So all the different genres have different language. So you have that ready. And then when you're called on, because you're just basically, it's like, okay, who wants to do this? And you just get up and you do it, and you do it in front of your mic. I don't know if it's gone back to the grouping. 'Cause I, I did something recently, and we were still in separate booths. So I don't know if that's actually gone to the group thing again, but ADR basically takes care of all that sort of subtle murmuring that goes on. And so whatever it is that you do -- and there's, there are a lot of rules. Like, you know, you never want to say, have anything to do with God. There's a lot of, since it is all improv, because you know, it is, you know, as we had mentioned before about, you want to be positive, that's another thing. That's another big thing; you want to be positive. You don't want to be negative. So there are, there are a couple of different rules you don't necessarily want to talk about the time of day. You don't want to say people's names or the actor or the characters' names in the movie itself. Anne: That makes sense. Pilar: So you're constantly improvising. And so flexibility is key in ADR. So you can just get up and, you know, in front of the mic and talk about this car that overturned in a tractor trailer and this and that. And you just, and you know, you have a little cheat sheet, so you have little sentences or, or themes that you can expound upon. Anne: So they give that to you. And you're just improv-ing off of that. Pilar: They give you the, the scene, but it's up to you to come up with the lines. It's like, they don't, they don't give you the lines. So I took a class, my very first ADR class when I got to LA was with Johnny Gidcomb. So, you know, for anybody out there who wants to do ADR, he's fantastic. And he teaches you the ropes. So we did as if we were blooping this one show that he had done, one of the many "Planet of the Apes" movies. And so, you know, we had to sit there and see, and it was sometimes it was difficult because you didn't know who was speaking. So you had to be, you know, eagle eye on these characters saying who was speaking when and, who was loud and who wasn't. So it's like a lot of, you know, observation comes in to play when you're doing ADR as well. Anne: And then if that's not enough, so there's the dubbing, there's the ADR and looping and Walla Walla. And then we also have audio description. Pilar: Yes. Anne: Audio description is something that's similar, but yet different. And that's also kind of, I feel like because there's more content out there, there's been a lot of work in this area as well with audio description. And there's just some really great instructors out there. I had Roy Samuelson is part of one of my meetups who came and talked about audio description. And there's some great groups out there that you can get involved in and learn from and lots of work out there. So let's talk about audio description now. Pilar: Yes. Let's talk about it because I will be honest with you. I am not that familiar with it. I know that it, audio description can be used for people who have trouble seeing, that that's a lot of it, but it does have many uses, correct? Anne: Yes, exactly. So audio description will be describing the scene. It kind of happens along with the dialogue, and that is something that will be describing the scene as it's happening. And so that is copy that is provided to you, but you know, it is a skill, and it is something that I think you have to be quick on your feet in order to do it well. And I think you also have to add in acting because you are really, for people who are not necessarily seeing the video in front of them, you are audibly describing what's happening in the scene, and you can't just be a robot doing that. I feel like you've got to bring the experience to the listener. And so there is definitely quality of acting for audio description as well. For sure, for sure. Pilar: Yes. And I'm looking at this. Yeah. And it is definitely for people who have low vision or who are visually impaired. So you definitely have to have acting chops because you are, you are the narrator for these people who can't see. So you are providing everything, you're being their eyes. Anne: It's like audio drama in a way. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: But you don't want to be overly, right, dramatic because -- Pilar: Yeah. Not emoting, right, either. Anne: Right. Exactly. Because obviously you're not overtaking the acting that's going on that they're listening to. You are simply describing the scenes and what's happening. So while you need to act, you may not need to act as if you are a direct character in the scene. That's for sure. Pilar: Well, and also because in -- when there are gaps in the dialogue, you will be describing visual elements. So you're going to be describing costumes, the action, the setting, the mountain in the background. And so you have to make that interesting, but you're not going to make it monotone picture. And you're also not going to go crazy talking about the mountain. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: You know, so exactly it has to sacrifice to be some kind of middle ground. So you're making it because you are the eyes for that person. So you have to be able to transmit the emotions that are going on. Anne: Yeah. So I'll tell you, all of these things that we have been talking about today really require someone who has acting experience, right, or who is an actor. And I love that because that just really broadens the scope of what we can do as voiceover artists. And it really pinpoints the importance in everything that we do, that acting is a part of it. And so there's a lot of areas in which as a performer, if you want to improve and up your game, you can have these opportunities if you just keep developing those acting skills and improv skills. And I just love that we're talking about where all these skills, we just had our episode on improv, you know, how they can help you to really grow your business as a voiceover artist. So thanks so much, Pilar, for chatting with me about this. I love you've just brought so much to the table for our listeners. So thank you for that. Pilar: No, thank you. This was so much fun. Anne: Awesome. Well, I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and perform like a BOSS and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week and Pilar and I will see you next week. Pilar: Ciao. Anne: All right, bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Acting is more than just using your voice. It requires whole body movement, agility, and engagement. In this episode, Anne & Pilar share their favorite stretches, exercises, and warmups that can be done in and out of the booth. From Pilar's jaw release warmup to Anne's neck stretch, by the end of this episode you'll be warmed up + ready to perform like a #VOBOSS. More at https://voboss.com/move-in-the-booth Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast, con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza. And I am so excited to bring back to my booth, my special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar, how are you? Pilar: Hello, Anne. Anne: Look, I feel I'm very spry. I'm very spry today in the booth. And you know why? Do you know I'm spry? Pilar: Why are you spry? Why are you spry? Why are you spry, Anne? Anne: Because I did a little warmup, so I'm kind of feeling good in the booth. And I think it's important that we always do awesome warmups and move around in the booth so we can have good energy going forth into our voiceover. Pilar: I totally agree. Anne: Thoughts? Pilar: That that is something that I, something that I just did. Do as I say, not as I do. Try not to do what I just did, honestly. VO BOSSes -- Anne: Drink dairy? Pilar: Because, well, that's one thing. Yes, of course. I had dairy. I had yogurt this morning, so of course I'm all phlegmy. Anne: Me too. Pilar: That's not, that's not fun, especially when you're going to do an audition. That's not great. So drink your water. But one of the things that I was told by a professional is it's really bad to clear your throat. You know, like when people [clear throat noise], that is like the worst thing you can do. Drink water, wait till it passes, stop doing that. But that's literally like putting sandpaper on your throat. It's the worst thing you can do. Anne: Yes, I have heard the same, and it's very hard because I think it's like a habit from before voiceover. That would be BF -- BFO, before voiceover, before voiceover, when I used to scream and do all sorts of harmful things to my vocal cords, before I realized that we need to treat this like gold, because it is our livelihood. Pilar: Okay. I have one question though. Did you say BFO? Anne: Did I say BF -- Pilar: You meant BVO, BVO. Anne: BVO, okay, okay. I was thinking like best friend in VO. So I kind of combined -- Pilar: Anne, Anne -- Anne: Pilar, that's how I think of you. Pilar: Anne, will you be my BFO? Anne: My BFO. there's -- Pilar: Will you be my BFO? Anne: -- best friend, best friend in VO. So hey -- Pilar: I love it. Anne: So being best friends, I think I want all of our BOSS listenership -- they're our friends. And I think it would be a really great episode if we talked about how moving in the booth and how warming up and just physicality in the booth can really help us to perform better and just be better all around, better mental, spiritual, physical to improve our performances. Pilar: Okay. So since we are starting our day, Anne, I invite you to do something with me. Anne: Okay. All right. Pilar: We're going to do it all together. Anne: What is this, a warmup? Pilar: This is a warmup exercise. It's a jaw release. Anne: Oh yes. Pilar: Which we don't even realize half the time how much tension we're carrying in our jaw. Anne: You know what's so funny, that I actually really need this because the other day, I woke up, and my ear was hurting, but it wasn't like an earache kind of hurt. It was an ear hurting because I might've clenched my jaw at night. And I, I know so many people that clench their jaws at night, and anything to relieve this ache in my jaw will be very helpful. Yes. Pilar: Okay. Cool. Anne: I'm ready. Pilar: All right. So I want you to place your palms on the sides of your face. Okay? I'll hold it on my headphones. You can still hear me, right? Okay. So you're going to place your palms on the side of your face and slowly massage the jaw and the cheek muscles. Okay. So you're taking the palm, and you're massaging the jaw line up and down the jaw line and also your cheekbones and, and with small circular motions. Anne: Good for when you have sinus issues too. Pilar: Yes. Anne: Or you feel it. Can you hear me going, can you hear it? Like, I'm very close to the mic. I am in circular motions. Pilar: So you can, you can go all the way up to where your cheekbone is and massage there, and you can go all the way towards the ear. Anne: Okay, BOSSes, you're doing this, I hope you're doing this with us, BOSSes. Pilar: Absolutely. Just try it. And then you go all the way down to your jaw line and go way up almost to your, your ear, almost to the ear. So continue to massage while lowering and raising your jaw. Now -- Anne: You're lowering and raising the jaw while you're doing this. Pilar: Yeah, so you're going, ahhh, in the jaw. Anne: Are we saying anything when we're doing? Pilar: No, not yet. Not yet. Just lower and raise your jaw. I can't speak right now. Anne: But you're my -- you're instructing us, so. Pilar: I am instructing you. Okay. Now -- Anne: I don't know if you can do it while you're instructing. Pilar: I will. You're going to hear it in a minute. So now keep lowering and raising your jaw while you're massaging. And now you're going to add the sound ma ma ma with a very light lip contact. So it's not, mmm. It's just a light lip contact for the mic. Anne: Now what is ] that doing? Pilar: And then you're going to change to whoa, whoa, Anne: Wait. I'm still massaging, right? Pilar: Yeah. You're still massaging, and you're changing from ma ma to wa wa. Anne: Oh, I can feel the vibration. Pilar: VO BOSSes, if you're doing this, you're hearing the resonance. That's really important because that means that you're using all those muscles. Anne: That's awesome. Pilar: We tend to think that we're just using the vocal box and that's it. And sometimes we can hear the chest. Anne: No, it's our entire it's like facial jaw. Pilar: Exactly. It's that whole, and it goes up practically -- it's like, like you're using all those muscles and all that movement there, and that will help your sound as it comes out. Anne: Love it. Pilar: So do you wanna try another one? Anne: Yeah, let's try another one. Let's try another one. Pilar: It's a lip trill. Okay. So this releases lip tension, which we tend to do and we don't even realize it. And it also helps you to connect your breathing and speaking. So place your lips loosely together. Okay? And you're going to release air in a steady stream to create a trill or a raspberry kind of a sound. So it's like [whistle-like breathing] Anne: That's a raspberry sound? Pilar: I'm not really sure what a raspberry sound is. Anne: [lip trill] Isn't that what it is, the trill? Pilar: But that's what I say -- yeah, yeah, yeah. But you can also do this. [whistle breathing] What is a raspberry sound? That is a raspberry sound, but it's like, what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to get the sound out without moving my lips, which is really cool. Hold on. [lip buzzing] That's a raspberry sound. That's a raspberry. [lip buzzing] So first try. So our microphone is getting a lot of action here. First, try it with an H sound. Then try it with a B sound. Anne: Oh my God, that tickles. Pilar: Yeah, it does, it tickles, right? Anne: I can not, I can not do it. It's like when the dentist does the teeth cleaning, the polishing, and it gets on my lip, it just, I can't. It makes me tear up. Pilar: So first try it with an H sound and then repeat with a B sound. Okay? And then [sound]. And it seems like it wouldn't be, but it is different. It's a different feeling. So now I want you to try doing the B trill. It can be either [lip trill] or it can be [lip buzz] and go up and down the scales. Okay? And whatever's comfortable. You don't have to go all the way -- whatever's comfortable at the top or the bottom. Anne: I really think for the trill, you have to let your lips just trill like that. Pilar: Because there's two ways to do it. There's [one way] which is more the H sound. And then there's the [lip trill]. Anne: That's easy. Okay. My lips are relaxed now. Pilar: Yeah. Don't they feel kind of like, they feel like you can kind of feel the reverberations. Anne: Well, once the tickle goes away, I'll, yeah. I'm not sure I can do this everyday 'cause it just tickles. I wonder if I'll get used to it. Pilar: Yeah. And there's more, there, there are other things, there's tongue trills. There's lip buzzing. We kind of did the lip buzzing, and here's one thing that's really important: humming. You can do this anywhere. You can do this while you're walking. Humming is really great. So [hums]. Anne: Oh yes. Pilar: So if you do humming and you concentrate, you will feel it in different parts of your face. Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Pilar: You will, you'll be able to feel it in your teeth, in your lips, and in your facial bones. So let's just try that really quickly. Just the humming. Anne: BOSSes are humming. Pilar: And if you go low, It's a different feeling from when you go high. And in your nose, if you concentrate on feeling it in your nose, you're going to feel all this vibration. Anne: Yep. I feel it my nose. And I think if you visualize where it's coming from, that helps, that helps. Now this is doing some vocal lip, trills, and hums. Now I also think any exercise around your head, neck, muscles, shoulders is very helpful in the booth. So I feel like I do a lot of the neck stretches where you take your right hand, place it on your left ear and tilt your head to the side. Right? So right hand -- Pilar: Hold on, right hand, left ear. Anne: Right-hand, left ear. Pilar: Is your hand over your head or is it under? Anne: It's over my head, over my head. And so as you breathe in through your nose for three seconds, then exhale, pull your head more to the right. Breathe in for three seconds. Hold it. And as you exhale, stretch your neck further towards your right shoulder. Breathe in for three and then exhale and stretch even further to your shoulder. And then you basically take your head and do on the other side. So take your left hand, put your left hand over your right ear. Pilar: I was doing it, I was doing it the wrong way at first. I'm like, she's crazy. And then I realized I was doing it wrong. Anne: Yeah. Breathe in through your nose. And then when you exhale, bring that head down towards your shoulder, toward the left shoulder. Exactly. Then breathe in again. And then as you exhale, bring it further towards your left shoulder. So you're stretching that neck. Pilar: Oh, that feels good. Oh yeah, you can feel it. Anne: Yeah. And then you can do that also forward. So take your hand, your right hand, put it on the top of your head, and breathe in for three through your nose and then exhale and then pull your head down to your chest. So chin to your chest. Pilar: Oh my God. I can feel it all up and down the back of my neck. Anne: So yeah, those muscles around your neck, when you warm them up, right, your vocal cords are right there. So it's super that that's warmed up as well. And in addition to the physical, like, and I also do head rolls, right? So from left to right, roll your head around the back 'til it reaches your right shoulder and then back again towards your left, and that will help you to relax those muscles around your vocal cords. Pilar: Okay. Very important. Yeah. And one other that I will suggest is interlocking your hands in front of you and then twisting them and pushing your palms out. Anne: Oh, forward, yeah. Pilar: Forward. So you're stretching those, those shoulders. Anne: Shoulder muscles. Yeah. Pilar: And then you can bring them up and, and then, and you can actually pull your left -- Anne: Over your head, right? Pilar: Over your head and then pull your left wrist with your right hand and then go to the right. Oh. And you can feel all up and down the arm. Anne: And so you're stretching to the left. So you're doing that -- Pilar: Your side. Anne: Yeah. You're doing a side stretch. Pilar: You're doing a side stretch. Right. And you're doing, yeah. And then you go to the other side. You can feel all the way up and down the side of your body. Because when you're in the booth, you're using everything. I know that a lot of people sit in terms of moving in the booth. That's an important part of this. People ask me all the time, do you sit or do you stand? And it's like, I do both. It depends on the read. However, whatever it is that you do, make sure you don't -- if you're standing for a very long time, make sure you have a chair that you can sit. And if you're sitting for a long time, make sure you get up, move around, touch your toes, raise your arms up, you know, lift your knees a little bit, because sitting or standing in the same position for a very long time will lead you to feeling tension and -- Anne: Exactly. Pilar: And so, you know, it's like, you want to be flexible. You want to be easy. Anne: So we've warmed up, and we're moving in the booth as we sit. And literally this takes a few minutes. You don't even have to spend an hour doing this, but every little bit helps. And I think that not only just warming up in the booth by moving around, 'cause now I'm like, wow, I've got some heat going on in this booth. Maybe you do it outside the booth if you don't have any ventilation, but wherever you do the, the exercises and the movement, the lip trills, and the head rolls, and the neck rolls, and all of the side stretches, that's wonderful before you get into do your auditioning for the day. And once you're there too, you can physicate while you're performing your script. And that actually is something that I tell my students every single day, get physical behind the mic. Because number one, it helps you be much more believable because it's taking away all of that energy that you focus specifically just on the words coming out of your mouth. And a lot of times that doesn't make things realistic because if all you're moving is your mouth and your vocal cords, things become very consistent, right? There's no other energy coming out of you to kind of move or shape a rhythm. That would be something that we do when we're talking to one another, right? When we talk to one another or we converse or we're interacting with other people, which is kind of what you're doing with your audience behind the mic, right, you're interacting with people, you're moving your arms. You're moving your body. You have facial expressions. There's all of this movement happening behind the mic or behind your voice. And that helps us to sound the way that we do. I mean, it, it has every bit of influence on how we sound. So if I'm just standing or sitting or standing here and I'm just here, I'm just moving my mouth and that's what I'm doing, you can notice that I sound a little bit more staccato. I don't really have a lot of, I don't know, depth or feeling. Right? So now I'm just going to like, I'm going to move stuff around. I'm going to move my hands because I really love to move around because that's what I do when I talk to people, like that's that Ganguzza, you know, moving the hands around and, and all of the expression. And if I want to really convince you of something, you can tell, you can hear it. Right? You can hear it come out in my voice. What do you do, Pilar? Pilar: I'm all about, of course, I want to use my imagination all the time. But for example, even something as simple as a raising an eyebrow, like, I'll, I'll be like, oh yeah, right. Instead of saying, oh yeah, right. But if I raise my eyebrow, I've already changed the expression. Oh yeah. Right. And it can be an ironic raising of an eyebrow. Anne: I'm confused. There's my furrowed eyebrow. Confused eyebrow. I have a confused eyebrow. Pilar: Or it could be like, I'm confused. That's like an ironic raising of an eyebrow. I'm confused. Anne: No, you're not. That's a sarcastic eyebrow. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: That would be a sarcastic eyebrow. Pilar: Right, right. It's a sarcastic eyebrow. Anne: Eyebrows, they really help. Pilar: They really do. They really do. Anne: They really help to give you that point of view, to give you that little bit of nuanced emotion about that read, and I'll tell you over and over again, that's what we keep hearing. Right? It is that kind of emotion, that point of view that, the you that you bring to the script that helps you to bring yourself to the script. Otherwise we're just spewing words into the microphone. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: We don't want to spew words. Let's not spew. Pilar: Like an inward chuckle, like -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: You know, just the shrugging of the shoulders that we, that you know, that you mentioned in your minute. And like, for example, when you, when you say your name, you can say your name, Pilar Uribe, or you can say Pilar Uribe. So I just shrugged my shoulders Pilar Uribe. Anne: Pilar! Or Pilar Uribe. Pi-lar. Pilar: Yeah. And so we have this whole stretch of body, which is our shoulders that we can do so much. We can shrug one shoulder. We can shrug to shoulders. We can shrug kind of just like a little kind of a yeah, right. We're just kind of like a little inward chuckle. I just raised my shoulder. So you've got all these parts of your body that you can use that can help you when you're doing a read. Like right now I'm using my hands. You know, what you were saying before, I can be pointing to somebody. I can be gesticulating. I can be raising my arms. You know, another one we were talking about earlier is just when you do a read and you put your hands behind your back. There's kind of like -- Anne: Yeah. Yeah, here I am. Pilar: Hands behind your back. Anne: Or hands behind your head, right? So you're just, you're casual. If you happen to be standing or sitting, and you want to relax a little bit -- because sometimes when people are trying hard to sound a particular way, their focus is all upfront and it's all here, like in their mouth and in their, like, I feel like it's all around their face. And when you are moving your hands, moving other parts of your body, it just dissipates that energy and really reshapes the tone of what you sound like. Because we're very physical people when we talk, I think, just to each other, when we engage with one another, we're using those hands. And so why should that stop once we're in the booth, right? Because we want it. We're still engaging with our audience. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. And it's something as simple as putting your arms on your shoulders if you're playing a character, that's in a protective stance or is scared and it's like, this is the way I am now. Or if you've got your hands on the side of your waist, and you're just speaking like this, and you're sticking your chest out, that's a completely different read because you've put something in front of it instead of just speaking here and being really intense. It's almost like you have to trick your mind and you have to give your body an assignment. And then that way, when you give your body an assignment, the tension kind of dissipates as we were talking about. And then you can give a more interesting read and then that's what stops the monotony. You know, even just when you're like, when you're doing long-form, just changing your body stance because it's very hard sometimes to keep the momentum and not be boring. Anne: Well, exactly. I'm so glad you mentioned that. Because a lot of times I work with a lot of students on, on long format narration like e-learning or corporate narration, something that, anything that's longer than even like 30 seconds, right? We have such small attention spans these days. And so you need to really be conscious and focused on keeping that audience engaged for longer than a minute, in between the periods, in between the sentences, right? There's still things happening. And if you kind of forget about that scene and engaging with the person who's listening, then it becomes a monologue. It just becomes you speaking out into the air. A lot of times I'll refer to you're reading the PowerPoint, and that does not engage with us because you're no longer speaking to me, the listener behind the mic, you're speaking off into the air, and it's only serving yourself. And that, that comes out in the read, that comes out in the emotion that -- well, are you really talking to me? Are you concerned about how I feel? Not really, because you're reading that PowerPoint. And when you introduce physicality behind the mic, what happens, it will take the focus off of the monologue and bring it back hopefully to where you're engaging or you're not giving a consistent metronome-like read where we all become bored. It becomes more engaged on you. So I would think the only thing that you don't do when you are physicating behind the mic is take your eyes off the page because that's the one thing that's different, right? Unless you're an actor and you're on stage and you've memorized your lines or on camera, then you can obviously not use the piece of paper, but with us, we're not memorizing.   So if we play the paper -- I was told that a long time ago, play the paper. So the person you're talking to is the person right behind the words on the paper. So if that paper became a transparency for us people who are of a certain age and know what a transparency is, you can see a face or think of it as like a teleprompter with you. You can see faces behind it. You're talking to the people behind it, but you are never taking your eyes off that word or the words, because a lot of times, if you do, and I know with my actor students, I know exactly when they're taking their eyes off the paper, because they're missing words. They're stumbling and that's, that's a telltale sign, but play the paper and physicate like crazy. And nobody's, I mean, we can all be silly, right? I mean, nobody's watching you. I mean, maybe they are. Pilar: Obviously, as long as you don't make noise, there are things that you can do. Like, for example, this is just something that I've done. And then I was thinking, how could it translate to a man? So sometimes what I'll do is I've got my hair up in a ponytail, and I'll just kind of whip my hair out. And just the movement of my head, you know, like a slow motion, like, you know, those hair commercials when they move their hair slowly, that'll give me a different reason. Anne: I've got a visual now. The brat girl, she's like the brat girl. Pilar: Exactly, exactly. So that'll give me a different read. And so for men, you know, if you have short hair, it's harder, but like just even putting a hat on and taking the hat off, just like the slow motion of it. Because a lot of the times when we're doing reads, you know, we want to get it done -- Anne: Yes, quickly. Pilar: -- or not that we want to get it done quickly, but we want to get it over with, and it's in that moment, it's in that present moment that it's so important to be feeling, yes, you're reading, but you can also be doing other things with your arms, and your shoulders, and your head, and just give it that full body because that will -- even though we think it doesn't, it's going to come out in the read. Anne: I like the full body. Yeah. And I'm glad that you said that because I tell people when they're making movements behind the mic, right, in order to make a point, sometimes it takes more of an effort. Like, 'cause I could just sit here, like here I am behind the mic, and I want to demonstrate a large circle. Right? So I use my hands and I draw a circle with my hand, right? So I say here's a large circle, but I didn't really draw a large circle. I just drew a circle in front of me. What I want to do is I want to draw a large circle. And so if you can hear what just happened is I actually drew a larger circle, and it just kind of drew my voice into a different sound and a different tone. And you may not want to go that large, but a lot of times you have to go a little bit larger than the immediate inch or two in front of your face. Pilar: If you're doing video games, you definitely have to go larger. Anne: Even narration. As a matter of fact, narration, because God, you've got to make sure that those nuances come out. They may not be grand emotions, but they're going to be -- I really want you to listen to this next line. It's really important. And let me talk about the circumference of this large circle over here. And so, as opposed to let me talk about the circumference of this large circle over here, right? There's a big difference when I don't move versus when I do move. And so you need to make that corresponding physical movement that gives it enough point of view, enough emphasis enough passion, whatever that is. I just -- see, I got so passionate. I plosived on my mic. I heard that. And so, or I might've hit the mic with my hand, but you've got to give that performance behind the mic that allows you to express something that people are listening to because remember you're reeling them back into the story because they don't have to listen to you. If you're in front of someone and you're actually engaging with them, right, they're physically in front of you. And so you've got your body that you can use to help like control the conversation. Maybe not control, but use your body and your face and your hands and your voice to keep people engaged. But behind the mic, it's an imaginary audience that we're playing to, so. Pilar: Well, and I think it's really important because along the lines of what you just said, what are we doing as voice actors? Whether we're doing long-form or we're doing an audition, our goal is not to get the words out or not to say the words in the pretty way. Just like in a conversation, you are engaging the person who's in front of you. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Pilar: That's the whole point of it. You're doing it for the other person. You're not doing it for yourself. Anne: Right. Pilar: So in that sense, you have to be as if that person were right there in the booth with you. So you have to engage, and whatever it is, you can be physical about it. And the great thing about being in the booth is that nobody has to see you making these silly faces. You know, so if you're doing your exercises, you know, and it's like -- Anne: It's so true. Pilar: -- you're going by them as -- this is a great exercise -- my name is -- and so you open your mouth wide and you go "my name is Tommy, the wide-mouthed frog." And that -- Anne: Tommy, okay, Tommy. Pilar: "My name is -- hi! I'm Tommy!" And you just opened your mouth so much. And then when you go to do the normal stuff -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- also those kinds of silly exercises, you know, the big black bug -- Anne: Break the tension. Pilar: Yep. Yeah. And then they bring you to another space if you're stuck and you're going, my gosh, this sounds the same. What am I going to do? You know, it's like, you turn yourself around, and then boom, you're in a different space and you can continue. Anne: Yep. So you didn't think that voiceover was so physical, did you, BOSSes? Because it is, it really is. Whether we're warming up our vocal cords, whether we're warming up our muscles around the vocal cords, or whether we're performing in the booth and expressing physicality behind the mic, it is extra, extra, super, uber important. Pilar: Agreed. Anne: Then it really can help your performance. Pilar: It's a lifelong thing. Anne: That's right, that's right. Pilar: Really and truly, if you're a voice actor and you're just starting out or you've been doing it for 20 years or you've been doing it for five, you can always pick up new tips and incorporate them. And that's going to make your voiceover time in the booth that much richer. Anne: Yeah. Great stuff today, Pilar. You guys, you BOSSes, get moving in the booth. Big shout-out to our sponsor ipDTL, where we can connect and move in the booth with our colleagues and clients. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and keep on moving. We'll see you next week. Pilar: See you next week. Anne: Bye! Pilar: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Have you ever tried singing your audition copy? Anne & Pilar do! This week, your hosts will teach you how to let go in the booth and approach scripts using a musical edge. All copy has a distinct flow and requires proper pacing, a distinct rhythm, and hints of uniqueness that keep listeners interested. Get ready to listen, sing, and most importantly, break down copy like a #VOBOSS! More at: https://voboss.com/singing-and-vo Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with a very special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Hey, Pilar. [Pilar humming] Anne: Hey, I recognize that. Hey, is that this song? [song playing] Ugh, Pilar, I love, love, love this song. And you know what? Even if I didn't know what it meant, like, I feel like the title just says it all, "Attacks of Happiness." Like honestly, like that's just a joyful, happy song. You are so multi-talented -- again, I say the triple, quadruple, multilevel threat. I think there's a lot to be said about singing and musicality in voiceover. And I'd love to chat with you about that today. Pilar: Yeah, it's funny because a lot of people think that singing and acting aren't connected or they say, oh, I can't sing. You don't have to be a singer to have a sense of musicality and incorporate that into your work. Anne: Or a musician. We'll just say musician, right? I think there's so many parallels in voiceover. Pilar: Absolutely. Because the thing is is that when you're given a script, whether it's 30 seconds, or it's, you know, an audiobook, or it's 10 pages of e-learning there's beats and there's rhythm to it. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: You have to find that, you have to find the musicality of whatever it is that you're talking about. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: And so it really doesn't matter what the, what the length is. You need to break it down and create beats and find the beats and find where there are the parts where you can slow down and speed up. Anne: And the rhythm. Pilar: And the tonality of it. Anne: Well, you know, what's so interesting, and I teach conversational melody to my students, and what's so interesting -- yeah, what's so interesting -- Pilar: Oh, talk about that, that's so cool. Anne: -- we don't -- thank you -- we don't ever really listen to our own conversation and break it down into melody, but all the time we're getting specs that say conversational or talk to us like it's your best friend. Right? And so, because we don't think about what we sound like melodically when we're talking conversationally, over the years, I've broken it down technically. But again, you can't spend too much time thinking about the technicality of it, but just know that we're organically thinking about what we're saying, right? So that has everything to do with the pacing and the rhythm of how we talk, because I'm thinking of things to say in my brain. And then they come out my mouth, and when that happens, I'm thinking, okay, now I know what I'm going to say. Right? So I'm thinking, here's my rhythm and my length of what I'm going to say. And then I know what I'm saying. And ultimately, when it comes to important words that I want you to hear, I'm basically making those whole notes or holding the notes longer. So I really want you to listen to this. So I've really like emphasized that. And so that becomes part of a melody. It becomes part of music. If you read music, think of it as your whole note, and all the words that lead up to the important word as your half notes, your 16th notes, your 8th notes, whatever that is. And then you also need to think about like, phrasing, right? Because I don't breathe in the middle of what I'm saying to you. I don't do this and then breathe and chop my phrases like this. I do this. I just -- all my words are kind of flowing along, and I'm creating a phrase or a thought or an idea in one breath. So it's similar to singing, right, and singing phrases because you don't stop and breathe in the middle of them all. You basically have one breath and you're like, hey, this is what I want to say to you. You're not going to go, hey, this is what I want to say to you. It's no, it's, it's really very different. And I think what people might tend to not think about is when you're being conversational and believable, it's all about the pacing, all about the rhythm and the pacing, which makes it more believable. And if you're too consistent in anything that you do, right, in your melody, in your beat, in your rhythm, it becomes like white noise. And so that's where people tune you out, right? It becomes like a metronome. Pilar: Yup. Anne: And now I've heard that enough. And so I tune you out. So I think that rhythm and the melody is so, so important to the musicality. And like you were saying, I mean, it's almost like with voiceover, it is a song. Your script is a song. Pilar: I love that you teach that. I think that that's awesome. And for those VO BOSSes who think, I don't know how to carry a tune, and I don't know about beats, if you've ever sat in a restaurant or a bar and you've tapped your foot to something, or you've been watching television and you're kind of like, you get into it, you're holding the beat. You are carrying the beat in your feet. So it's part of us. Anytime we hear music and any time something strikes us, and we, we start moving our shoulders, let's say, or we start moving our bodies or just our torsos, we are holding rhythm. Anne: Oh yeah. Rhythm and energy. Pilar: Yeah. Rhythm and energy, absolutely. So when you are looking at a script, let's say a 30-second script, you have to figure out where that is. And by musicality, doesn't mean that I'm going to be talking like this. I'm no, it's not about -- Anne: And you don't want to be sing-song either. Pilar: No, absolutely not. Anne: Right? Exactly. Pilar: But there is a rhythm. You know, if you listen to like a lot of the times, I, I love to listen to the Superbowl commercials, but I close my eyes, or I will look at a commercial and I'll turn the sound off because you will see the rhythm in the movement, as well as in the vocal quality of it. There's a very specific rhythm to certain products. And they're very, very aware of this. So as voice actors, we have to become aware of it as well, so we're not, as you said before, you know, we're not the same all the way through. Because it's really easy to get into that flow. And you're like, oh, this is really great. I'm in the flow. So I'm just going to keep talking the same way. And it's like, mm-mm, that's not the way we talk in real life. Anne: Right, right. But I love how you brought up that there's to, any particular script or any particular commercial, if you listen, there's a musicality. And then there's something that they call sonic branding. Right? [McDonald's jingle] you know, that kind of thing, or "we got the meats, "that kind of thing where it becomes part of the brand, that melody, but you want your melody when you're voicing something to be something that draws the listener in. And that usually means something that is not consistent or musical in any kind of consistent pattern, because that then becomes predictable. And the last thing that we want to do is to become predictable in our voiceover acting. Pilar: Yeah. It's really important to, when you're listening to voiceovers, because that's where you do the homework. That's when you find out, oh, what is it that these people are getting, you know, paid the big bucks, let's say for super bowl commercials, what is it that they have? And you'll find this little irregular heartbeats, shall we say? And you'll find little pieces of humor and little turns of a phrase, and it's not about copying it. It's about -- a big part of finding the musicality is also feeling it. Anne: Yes. Agreed. Pilar: You have to be able to kind of feel the rhythm because when we're sitting there and we're tapping our feet, if we're in a bar or we're in a restaurant, we're feeling the rhythm and we're like, oh, okay. "I'm having attacks of happiness." So, you know, you can sit there and you can find that rhythm. You can do that when you're speaking, but you have to find the rhythm. Anne: I have to tell you, and we're talking like all areas of music that can help you in voice over, I have an app called Appcompanist. And actually that was introduced to me by my singing teacher. I do have a singing teacher, and what I love about singing. And even if I don't think, look, I'm not going to go out on the stage anytime soon and sing at the bar down the street. No, but it's all about being able to control, also warmup. I mean, singing is a great warmup for your voice, and also figure out where I can place my vocals. You know, there's a lot to be said for placing vocals in different places. And that becomes a way that we can explore our range as a voice actor and range in terms of pitch. But I don't think we should ever become like, oh, I just need to pitch up in this particular note for the rest of the copy. It just gives us a place to start from. And that is very, very helpful in getting different ranges in your vocal footprint. Pilar: Yes, I totally get what you're saying. An image came to me as to, because obviously as we grow older, our voices get deeper, and I've found that I've found a deepness in my chest that I -- I was always up here talking here. I was sort of like up in my throat. Anne: Yeah, me too. Pilar: And then when I started concentrating on my chest, I have found different levels of my chest voice. So it's right here, and it's really, really intense. Anne: And the cool thing is, is that it becomes a place where you feel where the sound is coming from, rather than trying to mimic or trying to like get to a particular note. It becomes, oh, I feel the vibration in my chest. So that's all I care about thinking about when I'm voicing this, just make sure that that voice is coming from my chest. Or, and I actually saw this -- Debbie Derryberry, who's a wonderful character actress, she has a TikTok channel, which she has quite a few followers. She just reached 1 million. But she talked about how she created some of her character voices. And so one of them was like, she would actually be talking, say, okay, so she's a little bit younger. So now I feel like her voice is coming from her eyes. You know? And so, as she was saying it, she was pointing to the different places where her voice was coming out. And that really helps to change the pitch of the voice. And also she added the emotion and the feeling along with it, and that really created a believable character. It was really a fun thing to watch, but that is the idea of a vocal placement and how singing can help your voiceover to really evolve and expand your repertoire of characters. Pilar: Absolutely. One of the things that I do, and I, I need to do it more often, but it happens more when I'm stuck. I'm looking at a piece of copy, and I'm like, ah, I don't know what to do with this. I start singing it. I sing the whole thing. Anne: Oh, interesting. Pilar: Yeah. So if you've got "plop, plop, fizz, fizz, oh, what a relief it is," you know, that kind of a thing, or so I will do the reverse, if I'm hearing a song. So for example, this is a script that I did a couple of years ago. "When it comes to finding quality care for your kids, you can't make any compromises. [sings] When it comes to finding quality care for your kids, you can't make any compromises." Just something as simple as that will completely change, if you go through the entire script, it'll completely change the way you thought something could be. 'Cause here's the thing that I found about voice. I've always seen my voice is kind of like a race horse. And sometimes it just shoots out of the stable, and it's like, I don't know where it's going because it's like completely wild. And I have to rein it in. But sometimes I need to give it like a little push. So I'll sing my copy. And it's like, when a dog turns around three times and then settles himself down -- my cat, my cat does the same thing, of course, because she copied my dog when he was alive -- but it's kind of like, if you don't know where to go with something and then you kind of distract, you distract it. Anne: I think it leads obviously to a different melody when you voice it. And possibly, I think it leads you to thinking about it in different emotions. Pilar: Exactly, exactly. Anne: Which I'm always like, if you want to create you know the ABC takes, which I think everybody in the world just goes, this is take one. This is take two. This is take three. Right? And all they do is change the first note. Right. So if you think about that, that's so predictable. And we really need our takes to be completely unique and different. So I love that you lead with singing it because that can lead you to a different sound. And then that sound can lead you to a different emotion, and that can lead you to a different place in your imagination. So that really takes you almost into a different scene and a different reaction to the scene, which then gives you a completely different take. Bam. Pilar: And also -- exactly. Because the thing is, you're looking at the script, but you -- myself, I don't know what -- I may read the script, but I don't really know what it's about because I've spent exactly 30 seconds on it. You know, a copywriter has spent days or even weeks on it. Anne: Which is why we should all spend a little bit more than 30 seconds. Pilar: Exactly. It's my job to become familiar with it. So if I don't really know, let's say about care.com. Care.com... "Care.com understands this better than anyone." Well, do they really understand it better than anyone? Anne: What do they understand? Pilar: Exactly. They know that you want to find someone great who can bond with your kids and take care of them. And then if I do different things, if I go to different places, so let's say I'm stuck with this. And I'll, "when it comes to finding quality care for your kids, you can't make any compromises." I'm not going to do that for the actual thing, but that'll bring me somewhere and I'll go, oh, that's really interesting. I did it sort of like an older person like this and Care.com -- "when it comes to finding quality care for your kids" -- that just gave it a whole different range. I mean, I don't know how different, but I felt it different when I went back and I did it quickly just as an example, because I got to a different place. Anne: Yeah. I get that. Here's a thought, you know, it's so funny that you say you sing it because a lot of times when I come in my studio getting ready to do an audition, I'm singing because I'm like, "hello, and here I am," you know, "I'm in the booth now." And so I'll just start singing it and I'll sing my script. It's so funny that you said that. And I consider that a little bit of a warmup, but here's a thought. What if we just started singing script while we then did a quick Google search and went to the website? Because I think then again, I think there's a visual branding that you get from that company that can tell you how they want to portray themselves to the customer. And I think that would help a lot in terms of giving you a different scene, a visual plus your singing, and then go back to the copy and see what happens. Pilar: And there's a big part of this that -- I can only speak for myself. But when I'm looking at a script for the first time, I have a built-in skeptic, and I have the adult that has to do her homework, and she has to get the audition done. And what I do when I sing, and I also do exactly what you just said, which is I look at the copy and I'm sort of distracting myself. It's almost like I'm fooling the adult part of me so I can kind of say, okay, it's time for you to take a step back and then let the child enter and play with this script. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: That gives it more flavors too, because if you're looking at it with the eyes of an adult, like, okay, I have to break this down, and I have to do this, which is important. Breaking down the script is really important and finding the beats, but it's also being able to say, okay, let's put the adult aside for a second and let's just play with it. Let's sing, let's be goofy. Let's put on a boa and the -- you know, that's why I talk about using props in the booth when I'm doing auditions, and let's be a diva. And I have a teacher who a lot of the times I'll be doing characters, and then he'll have me go way, way off on a tangent and give me just, just to go completely over the top. And then he's like, okay, now go right into the character straight. Anne: Yeah, yeah, you do the wild take and then completely over the top, then bring it down. Yeah. That's an excellent piece of advice too. And by going over the top, you can be singing, right? Again, I feel like just taking yourself out of that like metronome of here's, what it should sound like, and then getting yourself off of that melody, whatever it takes, singing, to get yourself off of that melody. There's so many people that have, they come into the booth with a melody in their head because they've heard it for years, a particular announcery way. This is different. What you need to do is to, again, make it that authentic believable and take it to a different note, really. I have a blog that I wrote that's called Perfectly Imperfect and the voice artist is one of my favorite doing this corporate piece, which is about two minutes long, talking about how technology should be made for all of us, right? She's a beautiful voice, but it's imperfect. It cracks, it splits. It's a little raspy. And she ends up talking on notes that we wouldn't anticipate, meaning she's very much in the scene, very much talking and thinking as she's talking. And it leads her to these notes in the copy, which are beautiful and so unique that it makes me listen. And I think that that is where we want to strive to be. Like, we can't just say the words in a melody that is like, we've already rehearsed it. We already know the ending of the story. We have to work in that melody that surprises us, that as we discover what's happening, it's evident in our melody. It's evident in our emotion. And I think that a lot of times, that melody doesn't have to be all over the map. You don't have to be an opera singer. We don't have to be singing scales that are crazy. It can be, again, very nuanced. In our conversational melodies, we don't really, if you're talking about music, we don't really go thirds. Right? We aren't talking about this because we're not that excited all the time, right? Or maybe we're only excited for a few, a few words, which in case you can advance that third. You're almost never going between a C and a C sharp, right, or a C and a D in conversational melody, a C and a D. I didn't say C and a D! I said, C and a D. If you're musical, you're hearing that C and a D, I went up just a touch. And so musically, you're not creating crazy riffs or crazy splits, unless maybe you're a character. Right? And you have a more dynamic personality. So I think that the musicality changes with the character, changes with the emotion. Pilar: Yes, absolutely. One of the things that I think is so important is to recognize, because I struggle with this. When I look at the copy and the reason why I'll go out and sing it is because my first instinct is to play it safe. It's like, I'm going to be a good little girl and read the specs. And I'm going to follow the specs to the letter. And I'm going to do my little homework and do my beats and everything. And there's a moment where you have to just get out of that box. Anne: Be the naughty girl. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: You've got to be the naughty girl. Pilar: Oh Anne, now we got some, we got a little insight in here to Anne Ganguzza's private life. VO BOSSes, take note. Anne: Oh my goodness. But isn't that what they tell us all the time? Pilar: Absolutely. Anne: You've got to catch the casting director's ear who has just listened to the same melody 200 times. Think about it. Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. So they're looking for the raspy. Anne: What does that melody that they expect? They're looking for the unexpected. Yeah. Pilar: They're looking for the imperfect. So when you hear something, this is something that's really important in acting that I learned many years ago, you do your beats, you do your homework, you rehearse it, you rehearse it. But then when you do actually do the copy for a take, you're allowing the words to speak as if it's for the first time. So you're acting for the first time, because you know, the one thing that I hear when I'm in workshops is, you know, people they're reading the script, and it's like, you cannot read the script. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Pilar: You, you can read the script when it's the first time. That's awesome. It's great. But if you're going to do that for an audition, you better have a whole world behind it. So it's like, and that's where employing something like music comes into it. I mean, this is something that someone else me in doing promos. It really helps to have something like a song in the back. So for example, I'll take my headphones off, and I'll put my iPhone headphones in so it doesn't bleed, and I'll be listening to music on my phone. And then I'll just listen to a piece of music that is going to help me out for this particular audition. And that will kind of get me into the rhythm of it. And that, it's just really funny, 'cause I'll listen to when I first read it and then I'll listen to it the second time around, and I'll be like, oh my God, this is a completely differently read. It's the funniest thing. Anne: It's completely different. I love that for a tip because you know, it's funny. I remember like, and sometimes I'll do this. I'll do an example of here's why, if you're just simply yourself telling a story and you're focused on that, that melody fits any kind of music underneath you. You could have something strong and dramatic, or you can have something that's quiet. And just look, I'm talking to you from the heart, and you could have swells of music when you're just like, I'm talking from the heart and then you could be dramatic and loud underneath you, that fits. And it also fits with a calm piano piece. And it's so interesting when I do that example, I'll actually put different music underneath a very conversational voice and show how it really works. So that authentic, real sound, that melody goes with any type of music. And I think that's why it's really requested quite a bit. Not only for that reason, because you can put any kind of music or maybe visuals with it, because it works, because you're telling the story. But also just because it's effective. Like if you're fighting with the other elements of the piece, which would be music and visuals, then you're fighting, and that is not effective in engaging your audience, plus it sells, right? That's like the bottom line. Most people want that, because a real authentic person is going to sell more than an announcer or somebody that's mimicking or somebody that doesn't sound believable. And so therefore you have to understand that melody of being engaged in a conversation without really trying to follow any other type of melody or mimicking a melody. I love the talk about music today. Pilar: The one thing that I will say, especially for the people out there who don't sing, don't censor yourself. Even if you're off key, it doesn't matter. You're in your booth, you're in a safe place. Anne: That's right. Pilar: Sometimes, 'cause I have a, I have a really good ear, so I can always hear when I'm just a little bit off or when I hear any other singer, that's like literally like a sharp over or a sharp or a flat under, and I can hear it. And it's like, unh, but the important thing is, if you're on a roll and you're going at it in the booth, don't stop yourself. Follow through on that idea, even if you're not really sure where it's going. A lot of the times as voiceover actors, we want to get it perfect, and we don't let ourselves go through the entire phrase of that. So if you feel like I'm not really where it's going, keep going, because your voice, again, your voice is like a race horse. You have to keep going with it even if it might not be going in the exactly the direction that you imagined, don't stop yourself because you may find some great nuggets. Anne: Yeah, let it, let it flow. Pilar: Yeah. You may find some great nuggets in there. Anne: Yeah. Let it flow. And what's so interesting is I'm going to say -- Pilar: "Let it flow. Let it flow." I just had to bring that in. Anne: As we round out the end of this episode is try then, and this is a hard one. So understand your melody, let it evolve. Let it come out of you naturally without trying to listen to it. Because once you try to listen to the melody, as you're speaking it or voicing it, you then distract yourself from telling that story. And it's, it's another layer of your brain that doesn't need to be invoked with listening to what you sound like. Because when you listen to what you sound like, then you're listening to what you sound like. And you're not concentrated on letting the music flow out of you, letting the script flow out of you. And that's such a tough thing to grasp. And I want BOSSes out there to know, this does not happen overnight. This is something that all of us as actors, we work on this and hone our craft for years. We're constantly honing our craft. So I know there's so many people out there, they get very frustrated. And when you're building an ear, like you said, you have an ear, and that's could be a whole other podcast. Like how do you build your ear? It is not an overnight thing. Building your ear takes time. And it's very difficult to detach yourself while still hearing yourself. As I was just saying, don't listen to your melody; just let it evolve and let it flow out of you. And that's a tough thing to do. And while you're developing your ear, all of a sudden you can hear all sorts of weird things. And you're like, I don't even know what I'm listening to anymore. That's the person who does 15 consecutive auditions in a row. By the 15th, you don't even know what you're listening to anymore. It's then become a repetitive rut. Pilar: Yeah, no, absolutely. And, and something really to keep in mind is that there's only room for one role in the booth. You cannot be the actor, the director, and the critic all at once. Anne: Yeah. That's an excellent point. PIlar: When you're doing the piece or, you know, beforehand, you can direct yourself, and then you have to let go, put that one to the side, the director role to the side, do the piece, stop, and then edit, but really try not to do it mid-sentence because you're just, it's like, that's like the death of creativity. Anne: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Wow. What a cool episode. Thank you, Pilar. This is so interesting. Pilar: Yeah, it was, it was great. And I learned a lot from you too. It's like, now I want to take your conversational melody course. Anne: Thank you. I took piano when I was younger and I did sing a little bit to the point where I think that's where I base a lot of where my voice and my words come out. I mean, everything's a melody, right? Pilar: Yep. Absolutely. Everything is a melody. Anne: That being said, I'd like to give a huge shout-out to our sponsor ipDTL that allows us to explore our melodies with friends and peers and coworkers near and far. You can find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. and we'll see you next week. Bye. Pilar: "Ciao, bella mia." >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Microphones are microscopes. They pick up everything, including thoughtful acting! In this episode, Anne & Pilar discuss why acting is essential to a successful VO career. Acting requires imagination, creativity, and using much more than just your voice. Tune in for advice on involving your body in your read, the intimacy of voice acting, and why you need to develop a character for every genre… More at https://voboss.com/the-art-of-voice-acting Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Good morning, Pilar. How are you? Pilar: I am great, Anne. I'm doing well. How are you? Anne: Oh, you know, I'm doing all right. Except I, I've already spilled half a cup of coffee. Oops. I just -- Pilar: Did it again? Anne: -- I admitted that I drink -- no, I admit that I drink coffee. I love my coffee, and people that listen to this podcast know how much I love my coffee. So I have to chase it with lots and lots of water so it doesn't dry my mouth out. And hopefully you're not hearing mouth noise at this point, but anyway. Pilar: I just heard one. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Anne: So there we go. So then, I'm going to have you talk so you can hear less of my mouth noise. Pilar: Okay. Anne: But I love our conversations that we've been having. And in our last couple of episodes, we talked about what it was like for you to be a bilingual VO in the industry and what it takes to be successful. And I want to kind of step back because you've had such an extensive career in all sorts of things. And I think something that's really important that I want to kind of reign in and talk a little bit more about is your acting experience. And I know that there's a lot of voiceover artists out there that are like, oh my gosh, I've never really acted. At least I came from the corporate side of things and didn't have an acting background, but as I went along, I learned acting. And I don't want people to be afraid that well, just because they don't have a ton of acting experience that they can't do voiceover. However, I do believe it's important for us to talk about how important acting is in our career. Pilar: It is, I would say, fundamental. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: That's why the word acting is in voice acting. Anne: Yeah, I agree. Pilar: You know, this is something that also happens. Sometimes people think that you're like a talking head when you're on television, because you only get to see, let's say shoulders or chest, shoulders, and face. But when you're acting, you're acting with your whole body, and that goes for voice as well. So when I started acting in high school, when I started getting formal training, I majored in theater and we had acting classes. And you know, you do the proverbial, you know, act like a teapot, act like a tiger, and all these sense exercises. Anne: I was a dog in my third grade play. Pilar: Exactly, exactly. You know how to go bow-wow. Anne: I'm just saying. Pilar: But those things are important. What does it feel like to be on all fours rather than to be upright? And it's something that I think that a lot of voice actors don't think that they need. And you need to have those sensory experiences, however you're going to get them. So a lot of the work that I did when I was in college and later when I went down to Colombia, for example, I kept taking acting classes even while I had a television career, because I had to keep the body trained, because the body gets rusty, and we're, we tend to be lazy. And I'm the first to admit it. Anne: I think to be said for -- you made me just think about when I was a little girl, right? Remember when we had all kinds of imagination or is it just me? It's like, I used to imagine -- Pilar: Yes. Back then. Anne: Back then I had so much imagination, and I would play with my dolls. I would teach my dolls. I had my stuffed Mickey Mouse. I dragged him everywhere. And we became like acting partners if, for nothing else. Right? Pilar: Totally. Anne: I had all sorts of adventures with him. And I think that there's a lot to be said for that. And somehow when we get older, sometimes we lose that unless we're actively going into acting like you were. And I think that we need to readdress that as we become adults and find areas or times when we can go back to that time to create scenes and use our imagination. And I think there's a lot of that in voiceover that we have to do behind the mic because we're acting in front of a non-existent audience. Pilar: Do you remember, did you ever make forts? Anne: Oh yes. All the time. Pilar: Okay. So making forts, you're making forts out of pillows, out of blankets. You're making up a scene, a place, a cubby hole, a cave that basically doesn't exist. Anne: Right. Pilar: And that's what we have to do when we step in front of the mic and we're doing, let's say, a video game, and we have to imagine that we are a warrior or we are a computer game. I did a video game last year that came out, actually it was in 2020 or 2021. And it came out a couple of weeks ago where I played, I actually played a computer voice. That was one of my characters. And then the other character was an old woman. And so for the old woman, I changed my stance completely. So I was hunched over. I always have, since my voiceover booth is my closet, I basically just took my clothes -- I did leave some clothes out, but I just padded the whole thing. And I have a couple of scarves handy. When I would play that character, that older character I would hunch over, and I would put a shawl over me over my head, over my shoulders. Anne: So you got props. Pilar: Yeah, oh, I always have props, always have props. Whether it's a cell phone, I have, I actually have a toy gun on my desk, a little plastic toy gun, because so many of these characters, we know when I'm auditioning or when I'm doing them, they require, let's say the older lady, she was hallucinating. And so she was seeing things, and she was just immersed in grief. So I had to go there with her in order for my voice to register. It wasn't that I was manipulating the voice. I had to feel her sadness and her grief and her seeing things, which weren't really there because she was so enmeshed in her grief. And so the only way that I can do that is if I imagine it. So you're absolutely right about going back in time. If there is a time that you can go back to. And I did this all the time when I was in Colombia. There were so many characters that I did that I had no previous experience in playing. Anne: Well, I was going to say, I say, Pilar, I know you, and you're not evil, but yet you played an evil character. Right? Pilar: Oh, and she was so much fun to play. Anne: And, you know, what's interesting is I watched the little clip that you had, and I don't remember what particular scene it was, but you were having a conversation with someone else. Your hair was short. And again, I don't understand Spanish, which again, it's one of those things I kicked myself for not learning. And I'm going to, I really should just start learning it -- but just your facial expressions alone, you embodied that character. Like you didn't have to understand Spanish to understand that you were an evil character in that. And it was literally like, what, 20 seconds, 30-second clip. Pilar: Yeah. She was so mean. So nasty. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Pilar: And people would stop me on the street all the time in Colombia. And they would say -- because the name of the show was "Eternamente Manuela," Eternally Manuela," and Manuela was my first cousin. Anne: Would they hate you? Pilar: So they was like, oh my God, they would do two things. They would say, why are you -- they would stop me on the streets. Why so mean to Manuela? Or they would meet me and they'd go, oh, wow. You're really nice. What happened? It was just like, well, I'm playing a character. She was really, really evil. However, when you're playing a character, I never saw her as being evil when I was playing her. I just saw her as being misunderstood. Anne: Okay. Pilar: And so I did an outline for her. I did a backstory for her, where she came from, how she grew up, what were some things that might have brought her to that present moment of when she first steps into the character, into the script that first day. And that really informed what I would do for the rest of the show. Anne: So you weren't thinking like, you're actually playing mean, but -- Pilar: No. Anne: -- because you had such a backstory built up already, it became a reaction. Is that correct? Pilar: Exactly. So this, this came with time because I had time to rehearse before I started the show. So when I'm in the booth, and I've got a script and I'm handed sides at, let's say 5:00 in the afternoon, which is when agents send them generally. And then they're due the next morning. Exactly. And I'm looking at a piece of paper, I'm looking at a piece of paper with words, and that's all there is. There might be a description thrown in and there might be some specs. Anne: There might be a picture if it's a character, right? Pilar: There might be a picture. But generally you're just, it's a piece of paper, and it's not even a piece of paper. It's a bunch of words on a screen. Anne: Right, right. Pilar: So it's my job as an actor to imagine this character. And if I'm talking about anything, I'm talking about commercial, promo, whatever it is that you're given. If you're talking about Folger's Coffee, it's delicious. You have to see and smell that coffee. So let's say you're not Anne Ganguzza, and you hate coffee. Okay? So you have to imagine, okay, so I hate coffee, let's say, and I don't, but let's say I do. And I'm, and I have an audition to do the next day. Well, I have to find something in my memory bank of what I love that resembles coffee. Because if I don't like coffee, I hate the taste of it. Well, maybe I like hot chocolate or I like hot apple cider, so I have to substitute. And I have to imagine, and I have to feel, feel it. I have to taste it. I have to see it. I have to hear it. So I can hear the drip, drip, drip. So using all the senses, that's where the imagination, that's how you can get that character. And you can do that. You know, at the beginning, people will go, oh yeah, well it's acting. And you know, I just sit there and I read the copy, and I get into it. And I read it a few times. Well, absolutely. You read it a few times, but you start sort of clicking on your memory bank to see what you can bring into it. Because when you bring in your memories, I mean, we can, we can do this exercise right now. So what's your favorite food? Anne: Oh, all of it. Probably bread. Pilar: Okay. What's your favorite type of bread? Anne: Italian. Pilar: Be more specific? A Tuscan loaf. Okay. So I want you, okay. Perfect. Artisan Tuscan, loaf from La Brea Bakery. I want you to put yourself in the bakery right now. I want you to close your eyes, and I want you to feel, and I'm in the Tuscan bakery too, even though I've never been there -- Anne: It's warm from the ovens. Pilar: Okay. And so it's warm -- Anne: Because they're baking bread. Pilar: They're baking bread. And it's like, your mouth is starting to salivate. Anne: 'Cause I can smell the bread baking. Pilar: You can smell the bread. And so maybe you ask for the loaf, you get the bread, you get it sliced, right? Anne: And I can see it because it's golden. Pilar: And you can see it. And then you take it home. Anne: It's got a little bit of a crust. Pilar: And you cannot wait. You've decided you need to taste the bread before you leave the store. So what I want you to do is I want you to just talk about the bread that you're eating right now. Anne: Okay. So first of all, I'm going to tell you that I like a dense bread, so -- that has a crispy crust, right? So it's crispy on the outside and it's a little heavy in my hands. Pilar: Stop right there. I want you to say it as you're tasting it. It's crispy the outside. Anne: It's crispy on the outside and it's heavy in my hand. So it's, it's dense. It's got a lot of flavor. Pilar: What does it taste like? Anne: Heaven. It tastes like -- well, I need to have butter on it. So I put butter on it. It's just, it's got, it's got, oh, it's got, it's salty. It's it's even, even sweet to me. Pilar: Okay. And see what you just did there? You just gave that little paragraph a whole bunch of different flavors and colors because you were experiencing it as you were saying it. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Pilar: So that's what we have to do with every piece of copy. Anne: And now I'm hungry. Pilar: I am too. I'm like I'm in that Tuscan bakery. Anne: But wait, I just want to say this is for everything. I want to reiterate that we're talking about acting for every genre. You know, people think that e-learning and corporate narration and telephony, you don't have a character. Oh my gosh. Yes. You absolutely have to have a character as well. It may not be as dynamic maybe or as emotional because it depends on the experience that you're in. Right? I think if you're going to be taught a lesson from a teacher, the teacher's not necessarily going to be sad and crying or emotional in that sense, or if you're doing a corporate narration, right? You're in a professional environment. So you may or may not have a wide range of emotions, but you'll absolutely have nuanced emotions and those emotions, right, and the acting, you absolutely have to have those nuances because you're not just reading the words that puts you in the scene and it makes you believable. Pilar: Absolutely, Anne. I will go one step further because it is actually to a person who works for State Farm, it is that important. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: You approach every piece of copy as it is appropriate to the genre that you're talking about. So let's say through the commercial, when he EF Hutton talks, people listen. And it was so effective because people were sitting there, they were talking and, and then the scene was that everybody was talking and then that person stopped. The voiceover would say it and then it stopped. And so you knew that that was the EF Hutton commercial. So that can register in your voice. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: If you are thinking -- 'cause it doesn't matter whether it's bread or it's a video game character or it's Charles Schwab. Anne: Right. Pilar: It's really all about what you put into it. So if you're doing a commercial about Charles Schwab, you're dressed in a business suit. You're sitting in your, and there's a whole bunch of investment bankers. If you don't know what it is, you look it up. That's what YouTube is for. Anne: Oh my gosh. Yes. Pilar: YouTube is such a great resource. Anne: You to take that minute, take that minute and Google, for goodness' sake. Pilar: Go look up the product, go to ispot TV, go listen, go, go get your feet immersed in it, go see the competition, see what they're doing. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: It doesn't take more than five, ten minutes. Anne: It really doesn't. You know what? It amazes me Pilar that there are so many people that just, they rush to get so many auditions done in a day. And yet they don't take a minute to really research the product, the brand, the company, whatever it is, right? For the most part, doing that little extra work really, really helps you in just upping your game and taking it to a whole new. Pilar: Absolutely. Because here's the thing. Whether or not you get selected, because obviously the odds, you know, there's so many people auditioning at once for one role. To me, it's more important to have a well-crafted audition, that I stopped and thought about it. I don't have to spend hours on it. No. But when I play it back and I go away for a minute and I, let's say, go get a cup of water, and then I come back and I listen to it again. Is it something that I can be proud of? Or am I just sending it in? Because I waited until the last minute, and I did it and I just have to get it in before the deadline? So you want it to be as real as possible so that the person listening on the other end will go, oh, okay. I can't use her, but she's got a great voice, because that has happened to me. You know, over the past -- Anne: Or you can tell, well, she can act. I think there's a lot of that when they're listening to the audition, we may not get that gig, but you will absolutely prove yourself that you are an actor. Pilar: Well, and here's something that's really important to know is that the casting director gets a whole bunch of voices together from the agents and then sends it off to the client. And then it's the client, the copywriter who makes the decision. But really and truly, when the casting director, since they listen to every audition, they're going to be hearing your voice over and over and over again. So if you're presenting good auditions, there is a situation, even though there are certain people who make the decisions, the casting director is also lobbying for people that he or she is saying, oh, that's really good. I really liked that. So that's why it's also so important that care is taken when you present something because an audition is not just an audition. And audition is like, is a little one act play. It's a 30-second or it's a 15-second one act play with the beginning, middle, and end. And to treat it any less than that is doing yourself a disservice. Anne: So let me ask you a question. So when you get casting specs, are you following the casting specs? Because I've heard both sides of the coin here, follow the casting specs, or really just bring yourself to the party and bring your own uniqueness. So what's your plan?What is your strategy when you get an audition? Pilar: That's such a loaded question, and I've heard it answered in so many different ways. I do look at the specs. I know people who say, don't look at the specs until the end. Don't pay attention. Other people say, follow the specs. You have to read whatever the casting director is sending you via the agent because they're sending it specifically so you take stock. And I know one specific casting director who's like people, read the spec, I'm tailor making it so guys don't miss any little detail of what the client wants. This person said it. They were like, I'm giving you all these breadcrumbs, go ahead and use them. That said, it's not like you're chained to do it exactly. Anne: Right. Pilar: Because they're looking for your interpretation of it. Anne: Yeah, your unique spin. Pilar: I mean, at the beginning, and I know so many people listening on this podcast have I'm sure gotten Sigourney Weaver, sound like Emma Stone. Anne: Yup. Yup. Pilar: Scarlett Johansson. I mean every, you know, all day long, you get all these sound like, and what they're looking for is not an -- I used to, I used to fall into the trap, as I'm sure many people have when I first started seeing those names, as I would run and look at her and try to almost copy their voices. Anne: Right. Pilar: And that's not what they're looking for. They're looking for an attitude. Anne: Yeah, or an emotion. Pilar: What's your point of view? Yeah. But what's your point of view? Who are you talking to? Because if I'm looking at somebody, and we're back in the bakery on La Brea, and I'm looking at the sales person and I'm saying, can I get some bread? And 'cause I'm just having a good day and or maybe I haven't had anything and I'm like, can I get some bread, because I have to go take a pill with my -- and I have to get bread. So, and so it's like -- Anne: Or the pill's stuck in your throat and you need the bread to push it down. Pilar: Can I get some bread? Anne: That happens to me all the -- I need, I need a cracker or I need a bread -- need a piece of bread. Pilar: Right, exactly. So it's all in how you, what is your attitude? Who are you speaking to?What's your point of view while you're saying this piece of copy? Anne: It's so, so important. And it's funny because you and I may experience completely different genres during our days. Right? I do a lot of corporate. I do a lot of e-learning. I do a lot of telephony, but yet I also am always thinking about who I am, who I'm talking to, and putting myself in a scene because that emotion or that nuanced emotion is everything. It is everything. It is what takes a voice actor from simply reading the words to being immersed and making a believable and authentic. And I can't express enough people just say, they just read it and they read it in a melody that they think it should sound like, right? Oh, I've heard it on television like this, or, oh, I've, I've heard it in a video like this, but I'm like, no, you are not the person that's going to mimic any of that. And as a matter of fact, if you get the job, like I'm trying to train you what it takes to get the job. Right? And then when you get the job, then you can be directed as to however the client wants it. But I think you have to prove your acting first. And that I think it comes down to really, I think, the emotion and the point of view that you're talking about, which is everything. Pilar: Yeah. Yeah. I would hazard that to say that long-form, something like e-learning, it's almost more important. Anne: Oh my God. Yes. Absolutely. Pilar: Because you have to think about, who's listening to this on the other end. So if I'm going to be doing this, you know, straight kind of a thing, then, you know, once upon a time there was a little... and then, and my range doesn't change or [singsong] my range is changing like this, and it's always like this, you're going to drive the person on the other end crazy. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: So you are telling a story, no matter what genre -- Anne: No matter what you're doing. Pilar: Yeah. And you have to always tell a the story. Anne: You have to pull attention. Pilar: Absolutely. Anne: The longer it is, I think the harder it is. Pilar: I agree. Anne: And I think the more dry the material, the harder you have to be in that scene, you have to be that character so that you can hold their attention. I mean, there's so many other things vying for our attention. And that is absolutely. I think so, so important for us to understand that acting is, is everything. It really is, acting as everything in terms of, I believe being successful in your voiceover career. So let me ask you a question. What are the differences that you've experienced in, let's say, stage acting or on-camera acting and voice acting. What are the major differences that you have to account for? Pilar: Okay. Stage acting. Well, first of all, you're projecting because you have to reach the last person, the last seat in the theater. Anne: Yeah, and we don't have to do that in our studios. Pilar: No, you don't have to do that. Film acting is very close. It's very concentrated. Anne: Well, plus you have somebody to kind of, if you're in a scene with somebody, right, you have somebody else to play off of. Pilar: Yeah, absolutely. Anne: And that's a big -- Pilar: Not always, not always -- Anne: No? Okay. Pilar: -- but at least you -- yeah, well, because a lot of the times, if you're, if you're doing, if they're doing a closeup of you, sometimes the other actor will, will be there, but sometimes they won't be. And it'll just be a stand-in. So a lot of the times you have to use your imagination. Voiceover though, you generally never have anybody to bounce off of. Anne: Right. That's where your imagination takes, right? Pilar: That's why you have to use imagination. Anne: Yeah, you have to have a lot of it because you have no, you have no audience. Pilar: And also I think something that's so important that people don't realize that I discovered actually many, many years ago when I was working, when I first started working in television, I remember a cameraman, because you know, they work long, long hours. And he once said to me, he said, everything that comes through there, we can see what you're doing because the camera never lies. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: He said it in such a way. And I was -- Anne: That makes so much sense. Pilar: And it was just so interesting to me because I thought, wow, they've always got, you know, their eyes trained on you when the cameras aren't rolling, 'cause they're setting up the shot. So there is a truth that you have to present. Otherwise, if you are quote, unquote acting, it's going to show because the camera picks up everything, and the microphone is the same thing. Anne: You know, it's funny because if you do the parallel thinking and whenever I watch television or a movie right away, I immediately say, oh my God, I don't believe that. I don't believe that character. And it's rare that I see it because most of the time, if it's released for television or movies, you've got a credible actor behind it. But if you ever have that experience where you're not believing the character, it is so obvious. And yet I don't think people think about that when they're doing voiceover, right? They think it just has to sound a particular way, and that will make it believable. But in reality, if somebody is listening on the other end, right, and they have a keen sense of believability, I think people always know. They may not be able to put their finger on it as to why it's not believable, but they will be able to tell that it's not believable. And it sounds just like, hey, it's an announcer. You know, that kind of thing. But I think in reality, we all have to strive for that believability factor first because when you can get there, regardless of the copy -- I mean not every piece of copy is Pulitzer prize, winning material, right? I mean, that's where our jobs come in to make it a story, make it our story and to bring that story to the table and make it believable. And if we can't, it's, it's obvious to the ear. Maybe not our own ears, but it's obvious to the person listening that has a vested interest. And if you cannot engage with that listener, then they don't have to engage with you. Right? They don't have to listen to you. Pilar: Exactly. Or if it's a casting director or -- Anne: Exactly. Pilar: -- they're listening to your there'll be just, okay, next. Anne: Exactly. Next. Pilar: We're done. You know, what I've heard over the past two years now, every single casting director says, we listen to every audition. What they don't say is how long they listened to it. So I've been told that literally six seconds in, sometimes it's less. If they don't hear the truth, they just go onto the next audition. They do not listen to the whole thing. Anne: And you know what, that makes me even more resolute in the fact that your very first words out of your mouth for that audition or for whatever it is, you have to already have been in the scene. And it has to have been a reaction to something. Pilar: You're responding. Anne: Yeah. You're responding. And that melody, if you want to break it down into melodies, if you're musical, is completely different than simply starting a word, like welcome, you know, I mean, that's like, oh, that was just, I read the word welcome, but it would sound completely different if I was actually welcoming you at the door. And it would sound completely different. Pilar: Or you could be welcoming into an airplane. Anne: Exactly, exactly. Pilar: Or welcoming into a car or welcoming into a school. It's going to be completely different because we are -- Anne: Wherever you are. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. Anne: I think that's every time for my genre is, you know, when it's welcome or introducing or any of those words, right, it's hard to make them sound authentic, believable. Right? We don't always, we're not always saying welcome, you know, in our everyday life, but you've got to make it sound like it's a greeting, and that you are genuinely happy to see that person. So that becomes a challenge for people. So you've got to step into that scene and figure out what is that scene before you even start talking? I think that's, that's so important. Pilar: And I think it's also important, probably one of the most important things is to have a lead-in which you're not going to put on the audition necessarily, unless they're asking for improv, but that you're having a conversation. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Pilar: You're having a conversation before you start speaking. Anne: Yep. That helps for sure. Pilar: It's like, when you're going, when you're rolling into the scene, it's not like you just kind of get up and start. You're already in there. You're already talking about it. And then you can just flow right into the words. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: It's so much harder when you're like, oh, okay, you see the line going. And it's like, okay, now we have to start talking. That's not real. Anne: This is the beginning. Pilar: Right? Exactly. Anne: It's like, no. Pilar: So if you say, if you say, oh, I'm here, I'm in front of a whole bunch of people and they're really, really excited. And this is going to be a really great day. And the sun is shining -- Anne: Welcome. This is just the beginning. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I love that. Yeah. Welcome. Wow. Good stuff, Pilar. I could talk acting all day. We can talk acting all day. I think that was -- thanks so much for those nuggets of wisdom. I absolutely think our BOSSes are going to appreciate those. You guys, I am going to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL that allows us to connect like BOSSes. You guys can find out more at ipdtl.com. Pilar, It's been amazing as usual. And I thank you for being with us. Pilar: Glad to be here again. Anne: Yeah. You guys, have a great weekend. We'll see you next week. Bye. Pilar: Bye-bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

There is nothing more human than storytelling. In this bonus Voice & Ai episode, Anne is joined by award-winning voice actor Emily Lawrence, Co-Founder of The Professional Audiobook Narrators' Association. They discuss the financial vs. social implications of Ai voices, creating a community for audiobook narrators, and why human-ness is an essential part of storytelling… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast for another episode of the AI and voice series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm excited to bring special guest Emily Lawrence to the show. Emily is an award-winning actor and writer that's narrated more than 425 audiobooks for publishers such as McMillan, Harper Collins, Penguin, Random House, Simon and Schuster, and many more. She's incredibly proud to be the co-founder and chair of the newly formed Professional Audiobook Narrators Association, or PANA, as everybody has come to know it. Her greatest loves are storytelling and reading of course. So narrating audiobooks is a dream come true for her. And her other passions include traveling, LARPing, aerial surf, fostering kittens, and chocolate. So I have a lot to talk to you about because I love cats. We know that. I have three of them. And so I just love the fact that you foster kittens. Emily: I do. Anne: And thank you so much for joining me today. It's a pleasure to have you here. Emily: Well, thank you for having me. Anne: Yes. Emily: Happy to be here. Anne: So in addition to the kitties, um, I need to ask you for a more complete description. I have never heard of this, but that might not be a surprise. LARPing. Emily: A-ha. Anne: For those BOSSes in the audience that may not be familiar with that, what is that? Emily: Uh, so LARPing stands for live action role play, and it's the nerdiest thing you've never heard of. Anne: I kinda love that. Emily: Um, so basically it's like -- people tend to be more familiar with Dungeons and Dragons, so it's basically like that, which is a kind of like you're role-playing out a video game kind of, only in Dungeons and Dragons, you sit around a table, and you talk about everything you're doing and you like roll dice to simulate fighting and whatever. And in LARPing, you actually role-play everything. So it's like a bunch of nerds in a park with like foam weapons. Anne: I love it. Emily: Fighting each other. Anne: I love it. That's great. Well, look, hey, the nerdier, the better as far as I'm concerned. Emily: Yeah, no, I love it. Anne: That's fantastic. So again, it's great to get to know the you behind the association that has been newly formed. How old is PANA now? Emily: Uh, well we opened to members, I think it was October 21st or -- Anne: Wow. Emily: -- thereabouts. Anne: Fantastic. So tell me, you know, I'm very excited to hear about this because I think it's probably about time, right, in the audiobook world, that there is an association that is vested in the interests of the community. Talk to me about that. Emily: Yeah. Well, I mean, there have been other organizations such as the Audio Publishers Association, which really represents publishers. Anne: Right. Emily: But narrators and other people in the industry can be members. And then obviously there's SAG-AFTRA which represents narrators as a labor union, but SAG-AFTRA also represents everybody else. Anne: Sure. Emily: So there was no organization that really was dedicated to narrators specifically. And I think you're right. It was about time and long overdue. Anne: So, I know that there's a lot involved in creating an organization. Tell me a little bit about that story and how did that begin? I mean, what was -- were there issues that were coming up in the audiobook world that you were saying, you know what, we need an organization to really take care of our community? Emily: Yeah. There have been talks for many years of -- among narrators of feeling unrepresented in various places and in various ways. And then obviously with the rising danger, I guess, or whatever of AI, I certainly felt like, okay, somebody has to do something. And so earlier this year, there were a lot of conversations in Narrator, Facebook, and other groups just kind of like that made me feel like, okay, we need to organize. We need to come together. And so I did that. Anne: And have a voice. I love that. Well, hey, it's one thing to talk, right, to sit around in groups and talk. I have so much respect for the fact that you pulled something together. I mean, there's a lot of work involved in that. Emily: Yeah. It was definitely a lot of work. I am very grateful to have my co-founder Emily Ellet with me through the whole process. And so we kind of started talking like about what this would be and how the community needs it. And then we just kind of did it. Anne: Well, I -- Emily: Here we are. Anne: You know, I love it. I was looking at your website, which for those BOSSes out there that want to check them out, it is pronarrators.org. I love your statement on who we are. I just think that your mission statement is providing opportunities for raising awareness of the narrator within public consciousness. And you have so many wonderful things that represent that this organization is going to be doing for narrators. Tell me a little bit about the initiatives for those things. Emily: Sure. Well, we're certainly very ambitious. We have a lot of really big plans, mostly around three things really. One is education, education both of narrators in order to raise narration standards throughout the industry, but also education of the public, and education in the industry about narrator needs and the fact that we exist because -- Anne: Sure. Emily: -- a lot of people listen to audiobooks and don't give a second thought to the performer who's bringing that story to life for them. And that's obviously important to us that, especially when you're talking about having humans versus robot narrators, you know, for people to recognize that we're human to begin with is probably really important there. So education in general is a big focus for us. Uh, we also have a focus on advocacy, which is kind of our umbrella term for all of the things that we want to do to help our industry thrive with human narrators as part of the mix, and the changes that we would like to see in order to help make that happen. And then the last one would be just community, fostering a community. As I kind of pointed out before, there was no organization that really represented narrators specifically, and only -- and we have a really wonderful, giving community. I mean, honestly, the narrator community is some of the most wonderful, friendly, open, supportive people I've ever met. You know, for a bunch of people who are essentially competitors, we're all so supportive of each other. We all help each other out all the time. And it felt like it would be really wonderful to have an organization that sort of formally recognizes, celebrates, expands, and strengthens that. Anne: So what sort of -- do you have events planned for things that you've -- meetings coming up, events, community outreach, what sorts of things do you have planned for the future? Emily: So we've got lots of plans. Um, everything's just in the beginning stages. We're a member-driven organization. So we operate entirely on volunteer labor. And so our committees have only just started. I mean, they all had their first meeting last month. And so everything is in its infancy. We're just getting started, but we've got big plans for example, community events to get together both in person and online and sort of, you know, build friendships, but also network and things like that. We have plans for an award ceremony that is going to be community-driven and peer-reviewed. So kind of like the Audies, which is our current Oscars essentially meets like the SAG Award. So it will be like a peer-reviewed award show, but that has different sort of categories than typical award shows that really focus in on celebrating our community in a different way, which I think I'm really excited about. Anne: Plans on collaborating or is it a possibility to do any type of collaborative work with the union? Emily: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. We've reached out to both the APA and SAG-AFTRA announcing our existence -- Anne: Right. Emily: -- and saying that we would really like to work with them to further our mutual goals, and both of them have responded very positively -- Anne: Excellent. Emily: -- and very supportive. And so we really do look forward to working with existing organizations to move everyone forward. Anne: So in terms of membership, so if I wanted to be a member, are there requirements, are there -- do you vet your members? What's involved if I wanted to become a member? Emily: Sure. Anne: Because I personally don't do audiobooks and don't hold that against me. I -- just not in my genre, but I know so many people that are just so passionate about the craft of audiobooks and narrating. So if I wanted to be a member, could I, or what is the process? Emily: So members are -- you're eligible for membership if you have recorded at least one audiobook -- Anne: Okay. Emily: -- that is available on some sort of commercial platform. Anne: Okay. Emily: So it's a very low, you know, if you've narrated one book, you can join. There's dues that have to pay, but then you're a voting member. Anne: Okay, great. Emily: If you do not qualify for a membership, we also are creating sponsorship tiers. So we'll have sponsorship tiers -- Anne: Okay. Emily: -- for -- Anne: Nice. Emily: -- other people in the industry like directors, proofers, editors, et cetera. And those are not ready yet, but once they are, there'll be sort of different ways to support the industry and get benefits and like access to events and things like that for doing stuff. Anne: Got it. Are you an official nonprofit organization? Emily: Okay. So we are operating as a nonprofit. We cannot apply for our nonprofit status until we file our first tax return. Anne: Got it. Emily: So -- Anne: Got -- well, I know that it's an involved thing, which is one of the reasons why -- I've, I've served on the boards of many nonprofits. So I know how involved it can be, which is again, why I have a lot of respect for you taking the initiative to put this together for the community. There's so much work involved in nonprofit, and I know how important volunteers and volunteer efforts go. It's so hard when everybody is busy to take the time and be able to help out in an organization like this. And I really look forward to the success of PANA because I know a lot of organizations that start off with the best of hopes. And then it turns into something where it is an awful lot of work and maybe more work than people anticipate. And so I know how it can be hard to progress. Emily: Well, it's definitely more work than I anticipated. Anne: Yup. Emily: I'm committed. So I'm there. And I know my co-founder Emily Ellet is also very committed, and we have a wonderful board. We've put together a board of some of the most respected -- Anne: Oh yes. Emily: -- people in our industry, and they are all very committed also. Everyone has expressed a sort of surprised at how much work it really is. Anne: Right, yeah. Emily: But, um, you know, everybody has affirmed to me multiple times, as recently as yesterday, that like, you know, we're in this and we're going to make this work. Anne: Well, I think having a voice for the audiobook industry is so important, especially with things that develop within our own industry. I mean, not just in audiobooks, but in the voiceover industry as a whole, we are facing changes, and I've known this because I've done my AI and voice series for at least 30 episodes now. So there are things that are, you know, impending and coming into this industry that we as professionals need to understand, and I don't know, evolve or work with or not, or form an educated strategy in order to co-exist, let's say, with them. So I will talk about the AI elephant in the room, which is AI. And what are your thoughts? I know that it's, it's scary for a lot of us that this technology is coming. And so what is your position on behalf of PANA in regards to let's say the evolution of AI and AI narrators? Emily: Well, we are a pro-narrator organization, pro-human narrator. Anne: Sure. Emily: And so we are dedicated to supporting human narrators however we can. We have a lot of ideas about how to address this, but I think the board has expressed our first priority to be education, because I think that a lot of narrators don't really understand all of the possible risks right now. I think it's wonderful that you're doing this, you know, you're, series to educate people. Um, but I think that we have a task ahead of us just to make sure that people fully understand -- Anne: yeah. Emily: -- what everything is. Like -- Anne: Sure. Emily: -- for example, a lot of people don't understand the difference between creating an artificial voice, like a clone of someone, and machine learning, which I don't know if you've covered in your series, but that's a really big thing that people need to be aware of. Anne: Yeah. Emily: So we have a lot of ideas about how to address that first and foremost, but also I think, you know, a lot of people -- just today I was seeing on Facebook, people posting like, oh, I listened to this, and it's actually not that terrible and blah, blah, blah. And so I think that it's important that we stay ahead of the game. You know, we can't let the robots catch up to us. We have to stay better. But also I think that, I mean, for me personally, this is not like PANA's official position or anything, but me personally, I think that a lot of the conversation is revolving around like dollars and cents. You know, publishers and whoever are going to do what makes the most economic sense to them. And if it's cheaper, consumers will follow suit. And there's just, it's kind of all about money and jobs and the things that general AI conversations are about. Anne: Yeah. Emily: But I think that with our field, it's not only about our jobs, it's also about the art of storytelling. Anne: Sure. Emily: Something that -- Anne: Agreed. Emily: -- I mean verbal storytelling is as old as language. It's like, we've been doing it as humans for forever. And that's, I mean, to me, that's what's at stake here. Like, yes, I would like to have a job. I would like to be able to do what I love to do for the rest of my life. But I'm equally as worried about, you know, the power of literature and stories and what it means to have, you know, just from like a moral, ethical standpoint to have robots sharing the human experience that they literally can't understand because they're an algorithm. And so I think that that is something that needs to be more part of the conversation for everyone, because what we do is an art. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Emily: And even if a robot is possible, it can never actually express anything human. And I think that that's important to me. Anne: Right. I agree with you. And I think that the consuming public has a lot to say, obviously, right? We are a market-driven kind of industry. What the consumer wants, right, or is it marketable to consumers or is it not? I mean, do consumers want to be able to listen to an audiobook and have a human? Like, is it meaningful to have a human or maybe for certain types of audiobooks, does it matter if it's a human or not? There's so many questions about that. Is there any type of book that you feel might be okay with something that's not human? Emily: Um, no, personally I don't because -- Anne: Well, and that makes complete sense. Emily: I mean, sure. I mean, obviously I have a certain point of view, but I think, you know, a lot of people are saying, oh, well, it's more suited for non-fiction. I think that that's kind of insulting, like -- Anne: Yeah, yeah. Emily: -- yes non-fiction does not involve character voices and things like that. Anne: Right. Emily: So from that perspective, it's easier for a robot to do, but I don't know, I've narrated nonfiction too. It's every bit as human. I think that authors would generally be insulted to hear that like, nonfiction is less human than fiction. I mean, I think it's all part of the human experience. Anne: Sure. Emily: It's all part of something that human beings have spent hours or months or years putting together. And they deserve a human voice to express that. Anne: Well, and you're talking to, you know, my specialty corporate narration and e-learning, so I understand that completely. I mean, to me, I mean, I want there to be a human teacher behind the mic. Emily: Sure. Anne: I want there to be, you know, I'm a company, I want there to be a human that's expressing my mission statement or my objective. And again, it comes to people responding and saying, well, you know, it's what the market wants. Or I guess for me, if I'm just one little person, me, I'm not going to necessarily stop the progression of technology. And so in terms of how I need to, I guess, evolve or work with technology that's, that may be encroaching on, let's say genres that I, you know, specialize in, I have to try to think of it in terms of, okay. So are there certain types that might be okay? A lot of times, you know, it's like, why do consumers go to outlets like the -- Fiverr, right, to get their voiceover? Because they don't have a value necessarily, or they don't -- Emily: Sure. Anne: -- or they have a certain value associated with that job. So could this not be the future lower end of -- Emily: Yeah. Lower budget production -- Anne: -- consumer -- yeah, lower budget. Emily: I mean, look, there are already people who are driven by money, you know -- Anne: Yup, yup. Emily: -- want the cheapest product, and they're hiring brand new narrators on indie platforms -- Anne: Yup. Emily: -- for like a quarter of the standard rate -- Anne: Right. Emily: -- or less, you know? Like those people already exist. Will those people start doing robots instead? Anne: Yeah. Emily: Maybe. Anne: Yeah. Emily: You know, who can stop that? Anne: Yeah, exactly. Emily: But I think yes, that is a concern because the more artificially narrated audiobooks that are put in the market, the more consumers get used to it, the harder it is -- Anne: Yeah. Emily: -- to argue our position. Anne: Exactly. Yeah. Emily: It's all concerning. I do agree that there's a certain element that I don't know how much control we have, but I also think that there will always be an element of high budget productions -- Anne: Yes. Emily: -- that will always have a human narrator. Anne: Oh, I completely agree with you. I mean, I don't think that there's ever going to be -- and I'm a tech girl. I worked in technology for 20 years. I do believe that there's always, there's always going to be a place for the human still in voiceover. And I think that narrators that have been for years, you know, telling stories and audiobooks, I mean, that is a level of acting that cannot be reached right now by any type of AI voice. Emily: Oh no. Anne: And I don't know that the public wants -- Emily: No. Anne: -- to be, necessarily feel like they've been duped either. Emily: Sure. Anne: So if they're listening to an audiobook, and they think it might be a human, so I think it's all speculation right now trying to figure out how -- like how long will it take? How far will it go and how human will it sound? And I guess my argument has always been well, humans are developing it. So I think you will always have those people that want to take it to the point where, oh my gosh, is this a deepfake? They'll always try to get there. But I like to think that technology is good inherently, and that because humans are developing technology, it will develop to a point that will help humans and not necessarily take them down or, you know, erase an industry. So I do believe that there will always be a space for a human actor in voiceover. I just don't know how far the AI will go in five to ten years, let's say,. Emily: Sure. But I will say that -- okay. So the way that these algorithms work, right, is that they find the middle ground, right? So they'll always be passible. They'll never be award worthy. Right? They're never going to take acting risks. They're never going to be able to, I mean, unless they have an engineer sit there and like tweak them for every moment, at which case, like just have a voice actor do it. Anne: Well, yeah. Sometimes there is a lot of tweaking involved, that's for sure. Emily: Yeah. So it's like, they'll just, they'll never be able to cry. You know, they'll never really be able to make a listener cry or feel that connected because they're not connected. You know, they're an algorithm. So they'll make the baseline choice, the easy, safe choice, because that's, you know, when you're talking about machine learning or it's studying thousands and thousands and thousands of performances, no two narrators are the same. We wouldn't make the same choices on the same book. So they're going to pick the baseline, which I think means that it will never be as good, no matter what, inherently it'll never be as good as the best narrators. So that's why we need to make all narrators, or at least narrators who want to make a living doing this, the best that they can be, because I don't think machines can ever really, truly catch up with anything that is off the cusp and beautiful and you know, like human, and they'll never be that. Anne: What if -- now here's my what if, because I do know of technology called speech-to speech where it can mimic. So what about an actor who, you know, has great acting skills, and they can act a baseline model, right? And then other voices can be applied on top of that. I mean, it's scary. I've heard it. Emily: Basically have a human narrate the book, but then put someone else's voice on their performance? Anne: Yeah, that is a mimic. So that would make it sound pretty much human, but with somebody else's voice or maybe with a different language. Emily: Well, I mean, if you're doing that, at least that actor is getting paid to do it -- Anne: Right. Emily: -- because they'd have to custom record that book. Anne: Exactly. Emily: Um, so that's, uh, a less scary proposition to me. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Emily: But um, yeah, I mean, I guess that's a possibility. I think the -- what we're more concerned about or most concerned about anyway, is machine learning, which will completely replace humans entirely. So like right now, most of the AI voices are licensed, where it's basically like they have somebody sit in a studio for a few days, and then from there they extrapolate whatever texts they want to be able to put on that person's habits. But machine learning would be like, they can listen to the thousand most popular in audiobooks and narrators of all time and sort of create an algorithm based out of that. Anne: Yes. Emily: And they'll never have to license. They'll never have to pay a single human for that. I think that's the biggest fear is completely taking us out of the equation. I think when it comes to licensing your voice or what you just mentioned, where it's like you record the book and then they put some celebrity's voice on it or something, I mean, personally, I am against those things. But I can see why some people might feel like there's more wiggle room in those. Again, that is not my personal opinion. I want to stop all of this, nip this on the bud. But if we're at a point where it's like, that's all that's left to us, at least there are still humans involved. Anne: Yeah. Well, and I think, again, if we're thinking about how we can evolve with it, if, if that becomes part of it, and I do know that that technology exists. I don't know at this point -- you've got people, you've got other companies that are not voiceover that are creating this technology. So how can we work with those companies or do we choose not to work with those companies right, in order to -- Emily: Sure. Anne: -- stay ahead, right? Is that a possibility? Emily: Um, okay. My personal feeling is I don't support anyone doing that because, and I have more to say, but like, because I feel like that's just kind of giving in. It's, you know, you get a sum of money, which is enough for a few years, and you're basically giving up your whole career in trade, and the careers of all of your colleagues, because how many of those, how many people's voices are they really going to need to license? So ultimately, and I understand that everyone's situation is different and, you know, I shouldn't judge, but ultimately it's a very self-serving decision to do that. And so I personally, and this is my personal opinion, don't feel like I can support those things. However, if someone's going to do it, I think there's a lot of important ways to protect yourself and to protect others in the industry. So I know that our union is working on licensing agreements that would be union. As far as I know, every one of these that I've heard of or seen advertisements for or whatever is non-union. And there's a reason for that. It's because they're taking advantage of people who are vulnerable. Anne: Sure. Emily: And they're taking advantage of people who need the money and who think, oh my gosh, a year's salary for a few days in the booth? Of course, I'm going to do that. Not realizing or not thinking through the consequences. You know, there's a reason that they don't want these contracts to be union because the union would want to, for example, limit how many times that person's voice can be used. Can they make a hundred audiobooks from that person's voice versus a thousand or a million from the same person's voice? You know, they're going to try to put limits on it to make it more equitable and spread it out. And these companies don't want to do that. There was no advantage to them for doing that. And then there's other things like, well, I've talked a bunch about machine learning, which if people don't know, I really highly recommend looking into it. But if you license your voice, and there's no provision in your contract which says that they can't use that for machine learning, they can take that voice and not only use it for clone or whatever, but they can use it to create a totally synthetic voice that they'll never have to pay anyone a dime for. You know, there's a lot of risks, and that's part of why we want to do an educational series is if you're going to do this, which I personally strongly recommend and hope that you won't, but if you will, please at least be smart about it. You know, there are companies involved like, you know, Google and whatever that have really deep pockets, and they can offer the kind of money that a lot of people would have a really hard time turning down. But you also have to remember that there's a lot more at stake here than your wallet or even your career. Um, so we just, if you're going to do it, you have to be smart about it and you have to read those contracts with a fine tooth comb. Anne: So I totally, totally understand all of that. Absolutely. What about the possibility of, as an organization, having a voice and going to these companies and saying -- I want to say it's like in the video gaming industry, when musicians would create music for video games, fighting for their creative licensing rights. What about that sort of thing? Like, and I understand, I mean, Google and you know that a lot of the big companies have a lot of voices already, not even voice actors, right? Just voices -- Emily: Right, yeah. Anne: -- that they're using to learn, right. They're using to put into machine learning and learn and test and create other voices. If as an organization, you could be a strong voice in saying, hey, you know what, anybody's voice that's used really you should be asking permission. There should be compensation. There should be -- Emily: Right. Anne: -- you know -- Emily: We should be getting royalties. Anne: Right, exactly. Emily: You know, like with any contract, you should have a limited period of time -- Anne: Exactly. Emily: -- where you can -- Anne: Exactly. Emily: You can't license in perpetuity, you should get six months or whatever, you know, like, I totally agree. That's part of why, if these contracts are going to happen, they should be union. Anne: Yeah. Emily: And that's why they don't -- they don't want to give us that, they don't. Um, they just want to give us a sum of money that is like an absolute fraction of what we would deserve for doing that kind of work. Anne: I have spoken with some companies who say that they are not those companies. You know, they say that they are for -- Emily: Well, of course they say -- Anne: Well, okay. But that's the thing though, is that, do you assume that all companies are not ethical? You know what I mean, in this game? Emily: I think honestly, I think any company doing this nonunion and not offering the protections and the compensation that any actor doing this deserves it, I don't think that's ethical. This is my personal opinion. I'm not speaking for PANA. Anne: Oh, no, no. Emily: I don't think it's ethical to offer a desperate actor a year salary and have their voice in perpetuity to use -- Anne: I agree. Emily: -- for whatever you want. You know? Anne: I agree with that. And I totally agree with that. And I think that that is absolutely where voice actors need to, you know, they need to be aware of these things that, you know, these companies that are for TTS. For me, that's a big red flag. And if you have a contract or you have a company that wants to pay you for, you know, 3000 lines of whatever, I absolutely believe that you should have a lawyer on that. Um, I say I would not take the job. However, if you go to these AI companies, I'm going to say independently and, you know, and try to work with them, or if there's an organization that can be on a board -- there is an organization right now that is working towards policies and legal contracts that will be in protection of the voice acting community. So I feel like there could be power in that as well. Emily: Sure. Anne: And especially from the audiobook narrators industry as well, because you guys are a -- you're a large community, and you have strong voices, and you work closely with the union. And I think that that is a wonderful thing. And I think that if you can get in on the ground floor of those usage policies, which everybody should have, right? And then, you know, ultimately, you know, fight the good fight hopefully so that the companies now understand, because I think in my research, I'm just going to say, there's a lot of AI companies out there that don't understand the voice acting industry. They don't understand like I actually had to say, no, there's usage. There's -- Emily: Right. Anne: -- you know, there's usage here for how long. And we have contracts that, you know, we can't use our voice for this company, because we're already committed to this company. Emily: Sure. Anne: And there's a lot of education, not just for us, but -- Emily: But for them. Anne: -- on their side as well. And I think that if you have a strong community of voices, that might be something to consider. Like you said, education, maybe education for AI companies as well. Emily: Sure. I -- Anne: Yeah. Emily: -- I would certainly be open to that. Anne: Yeah. Emily: And another one that we haven't mentioned, but that is definitely a concern, at least for me, would be having some sort of limitations on the content that they -- Anne: Yes, absolutely. Emily: -- could use voices for. Anne: Yup, yup. Emily: Like for example, you know, I'm, I'm Jewish. Anne: Yup. Emily: I would be horrified if my voice was used to narrate Nazi propaganda. Anne: Yup. Emily: You know, like that's just -- so I think any, any contract that is like in perpetuity with no limitations is unethical to me -- Anne: Yup. Emily: -- because that's just not how it should work. Anne: Oh yeah. Emily: Am I -- Anne: I agree. Emily: Am I open to working with AI companies to create a more equitable compensation system? Personally I think that that's SAG-AFTRA's job. If I ever hear of an AI company actually having union agreements with SAG-AFTRA, I would feel more kindly towards that AI company. I have yet to hear of that. I would potentially be open to that kind of effort, but honestly, I feel like that's putting the cart before the horse. I don't think we should give up the fight yet. I think we have enough good arguments and resources on our side to not necessarily have to get to that point yet. Anne: Okay. Well, I think that you've definitely got some strong arguments there, and I, I have also been in the forums and I hear what people say, and I understand. I myself have done so much research, probably a little bit more with the companies maybe than others, which is the only reason I bring up the point that there are companies who say that they are ethical and say that they will, you know, your license or your voice belongs to you. It's licensed to you. We will not use it in our machine learning, right? Only with your permission and only if you are compensated fairly, so. Emily: I mean, that's good. Good on those companies. Anne: Yeah. Well, I'm hoping that more companies will, with things, you know, with the unfortunate, but actually now fortunate episode that happened to -- maybe not fortunate. I don't know if I would call it that, but that happened with Bev Standing, right, with her suit against TikTok and the fact that it got settled, it does set a precedent. And so it's unfortunate sometimes that bad things have to happen in order for, right, resulting policies and standards and laws to come into play. You know, the whole thing with the Anthony Bourdain movie, right? Why resurrecting a voice without the permission? I think that there are bad things that happen. However, good things can come out of it afterwards in order to build laws. And I think that that's kind of where we might be in this crazy world of AI. And it seems like AI has just sprung up in the last couple of years like crazy. Emily: Sure. Anne: So I do believe after my research, for me, I think it comes to educating the companies, the AI companies about us and about what we need and about what our rights should be as actors. And I, I'm hoping that my involvement in this podcast is going to also have a voice that can help affect that. And so that they will see that we do need to license our voice. We do need to be fairly compensated. And, you know, I can only hope that my little part in it has something to do with maybe getting things the way that would be fair and equitable to us. Emily: Sure. I mean, I hope that, I hope that your efforts are successful. I do think that, I would like to think that these companies are just unaware or something. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Emily: And I'm sure some of them are, but I also think that some of them are very clever. Anne: Yeah, of course. Emily: And I know there are, for example, I can think of certain companies in the audiobook world who say, well, we won't -- they are clever in the way that they deceive people. You know, they'll say, well, we're not using our data to clone your voice, but they won't say that they're not using the data for machine learning or other things, you know? Like, and I think that, because I think that if we could get companies to do union contracts, that would certainly order it, you know, equivalent. That would certainly be a step forward. But I also think that educating voice actors to understand all of this stuff -- because it is complicated -- Anne: Sure. Emily: - and it's not necessarily natural to a lot of people. I think that's important too, because like right now there are companies where we're -- actors and publishers are literally giving data to and not really recognizing how it could be used. Anne: Agreed, agreed. Emily: And so that's a problem. Anne: I think we always have though, you know what I mean? I'm going to say long before this AI craziness, I think also, you know, there have been devices that have been listening to us and capturing our voices for a long time now. Emily: Sure. Anne: And so it's, I think it's good that we all are educated on it. And I just wanna give a shout-out to the organization, which I'm a part of, and anybody, if you're interested in joining them, it's called the Open Voice Network, which is based on creating standards for anything voice. And there are some companies who create AI voices that are in this organization, but it's all for the good of the voiceover world as well, to make sure that we are fairly compensated and hopefully, you know, we have a set of standards that can work for everyone. So that's openvoicenetwork.org. Maybe that's something that, you know, uh, BOSSes out there, you want to take a look at. I love, love, love what you're doing with PANA. I mean, thank you really. It's, I know how hard it is to bring an organization up and get these things going and moving and being productive. So congratulations to you guys. I think it's an amazing thing you're doing for the audiobook community, and I think it's wonderful what you're doing. Emily: Thank you. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Emily: Appreciate that. Anne: So tell us how people can find out more about your organization and you? Emily: Sure. Uh, pronarrators.org is our website. We are @pronarrators on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, and I'm Emily Lawrence. And you can find me at emilylawrence.com. Anne: Fantastic. Thank you so much, Emily, for spending time with us today. BOSSes, go check out pronarrators.org. Thanks again so much for joining us. I'm going to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more ipdtl.com, and we'll see you guys next week. Thanks so much. Bye! Emily: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe! In this episode, your hosts cover how creating a great demo can get you booked without auditioning, the versatility of having multiple demos, and how being kind to everyone you meet is really the most underrated marketing technique…   Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Pilar: Hola, BOSS Voces. Bienvenidos al podcast con Anne Ganguzza y Pilar Uribe.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm happy to welcome back with me as special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar, how are you today?   Pilar: I'm doing great, Anne. ¿Tú cómo estás?   Anne: I don't know. Sí.   Pilar. Just say bien, just say bien.   Anne: Bien, bien.   Pilar: Bien covers it all.   Anne: Everybody will follow my own journey as I learn Spanish. Thank you. And I learned to be as -- the best bilingual voice artist I can be, but let me talk about another language, another language of love which it comes from my VO studio kitty Sebrina today. I noticed, Pilar, you know how animals, they have that sense. When you're a cat lover and a cat lover walks into my home, my cats know it. And I have to tell you that my little Sebrina, who is the most sociable of the three VO studio cats that I have, she's usually the first one that will come down and greet people, if she feels that they are sufficient --   Pilar: Worthy.   Anne: -- cat lovers. Yes.   Pilar: If they're worthy of her attention.   Anne: So I have to tell you that the last two times we've been recording, she has been scratching at my studio door, and she just doesn't do that. And I know, I know that she hears you because I have inside and outside headphones. And so what I hear here in my headphones in the booth are also kind of projecting outside my booth through my headphones. So I know she hears you. There's no other reason to explain why she's scratching at the door.   Pilar: Oh, I love that.   Anne: Like she must hear your voice.   Pilar: That's so cute.   Anne: She must hear your voice. And she must know that there's yet another cat lover with me, and she's scratching to get into the studio.   Pilar: And she knows there's a possible suitor right outside.   Anne: That's right. Exactly.   Pilar: Paco. Oh yeah.   Anne: Paco. Yes, she probably feels it. I'm telling you.   Pilar: They know, they know these things. They know.   Anne: They do. They know everything. Wow.   Pilar: We're just their, their custodians. They're the ones who rule.   Anne: Exactly. So I had to tell you that story, you know, because we share, we share a love for studio cats, for sure.   Pilar: So I can say, I can give a little shout out. Hola Sebrina, ¿cómo estás?   Anne: Oo. She's going to hear the scratching soon. I'm telling you. So we had a great conversation on our last podcast about being a bilingual voice talent and what it takes to, I guess, be successful in the industry. And I want to continue that to go a little bit more in detail. So if there are beginners out there or people just entering into the industry that want to market themselves as a bilingual voice talent, what are the steps that it would take for them to do so successfully? First of all, I think you must have some sort of a demo, right, that showcases that you have this talent. What are your thoughts about a demo and how you can successfully market yourself as bilingual through your demo or not, or what works for you?   Pilar: Okay. So since I started out in the world of voiceover without any like really any information -- I mean in the world of dubbing, that's what I meant -- they knew I spoke English, they knew I spoke Spanish, so I could do both. And I just kind of jumped in. I did not have a voiceover agent until I got to Los Angeles. So I had to get my own work. And that meant a lot of knocking on doors, talking to other actors and saying, okay, where are you, where are you working? What studios are you working in? And there aren't that many in Miami.   Anne: And you're talking physical knock. I'm just going to clarify this --   Pilar: Oh yeah.   Anne: -- you mean like physically networking with other people, which today really translates into online, right? Maybe --   Pilar: Yes.   Anne: -- groups and online, online networking groups. But yeah, you had to physically become a good networker.   Pilar: Yes. Thank you for telling me that, because, because I don't even realize. I think it's interesting because you know, you get to a place -- you know, I'm talking to you here. I earned my living doing this and it's, it's really, when you go back, and I'm looking at my, my past, everyone thinks, oh, oh, she's doing this. She has it all. Oh, it's oh, it's like really easy. Look at her. And every single step that you make is, it's like, you're climbing up the mountain, and then you slide back down and then you climb up the mountain, and you slide back down a little bit.   Anne: Yeah.   Pilar: And it's a lot of walking --   Anne: You claw your way up the mountain.   Pilar: -- you, you literally crawl your way up the mountain. My, um, my ex mother-in-law, God bless her, told me one time when I was learning something many, many years ago, she said as much as you may learn and then fall back, and, and if you're, if it's another language or if it's a new profession, you're never going to be at the point where you don't know anything. Once you start learning, you can't say you don't know anything because you actually know something now about that subject. And I, that's just something that I've always taken with me.   Anne: Yeah, that's a cool perspective. Yup.   Pilar: Because the more I learn -- yeah, right? Because the more I learn, the more I realize, oh, okay. I don't know about so much more.   Anne: Exactly.   Pilar: But there's other stuff that I do know now. So I just, I kind of bring it all. You know, my, my little lump of knowledge gets bigger and bigger. And so when I first started dubbing, as I said in a couple, couple episodes before, I just, it was luck that I got the job, but it was because I had been auditioning so many times before for these different studios -- no, excuse me, for this one studio.   Anne: But was it really luck, Pilar? If I ask you to think that back, was it really luck? Because you had really been working, uh, networking with people and getting to know people, and I'll tell you, the first rule of marketing is people buy from people they know, like, and trust. And so I think you might've been establishing that relationship in working in those studios when they said, you know what? We need somebody to do this dubbing job. And boom, guess who's top of mind? There you are. Just a thought.   Pilar: Okay, for those VO voces, those BOSS Voces who are listening to Anne for the first time, you got to go take classes with this woman, because she's completely turning my story around. And I'm sitting there, like my brains are like going, whaat?   Anne: I love it. You're a marketer. It's so funny, the parallels, right?   Pilar: I don't even know how I did it, but you're basically showing me all this stuff that I did without me even realizing it. So thank you for that.   Anne: Well, it's cool because we, we get to work it backwards now because now --   Pilar: Yes.   Anne: -- people just entering in the business, are they networking online? How are they networking? And maybe they should consider all versions of networking because it all helps you, you know, to get where you need to go.   Pilar: We're doing it, we're doing reverse engineering.   Anne: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.   Pilar: So reverse engineering a lot of the times means, and again, I'm not saying I do this, but when I have an interaction with somebody, I always keep them in my mind, and I send them an email, and I let them know what I'm doing. Because a lot of the time -- it's, it's basically being and not stalking them and not being obnoxious about it, but so they know that you're around. You know, for so many months before I actually got my first dubbing gig, I didn't get any response. And the same thing happened when I, when, when I started working for NPR. I didn't hear anything for months and months and months. And what I realized is that marketing is always the long game.   Anne: Isn't it? Ugh, yes.   Pilar: It's, it's the long game --   Anne: That's it, we can go home now Pilar, because that was, that was the wisdom, that nugget of wisdom. It is, it's a long game. So many people want that instant result.   Pilar: Yeah, because we have, we're exposed to instant gratifications through our cell phones, through our laptops.   Anne: Yup.   Pilar: And what it is is that it's basically putting a tiny grain of sand into the atmosphere and letting it go there. It might come back. It might not, but every single time you do it, you're sending the energy out of, I'm a voiceover artist. I can do this for you.   Anne: Yeah, absolutely.   Pilar: And eventually that does come back.   Anne: Yes.   Pilar: So I get my first gig and then I'm thinking, okay, I want more. So then I start asking questions. I started asking my actor friends and like, oh, you're with this studio. How do you get into this studio? And it turns out that the person who recommended me to work in the first studio is also now working part-time in the second studio. So I call him up and I say, hey, you know, what's going on? And they're like, oh, okay, well, I don't really have anything for you now, but maybe. So I was like, okay, great. And then, boom. Maybe I make a call or maybe he calls me again. And then the chain starts happening. So that's really what it became.   So at one point I was working for four different studios and, you know, making these connections and then slowly but surely. So then you reach a point, right? I want more. So then I go into the audiobook world, and I start doing that. And then a big part of my, my voiceover journey was Fafcon because --   Anne: Yup.   Pilar: -- I went and that's --   Anne: Networking.   Pilar: -- when I experienced. Yeah. That's when I experienced, I was like, oh, these people actually make a living at it full-time, because I'm sitting here running around, you know, with four different studios.   Anne: Sure.   Pilar: And I'm sure trying to deal with the whole audiobook thing. And, and they're like, oh no, we have our clients. We have our IVR. We have our people who call us up every so often. And we, and I'm like, oh, that's a new concept. And I had no idea about this part of the business.   Anne: You were learning about now these are all different genres. You were just doing dubbing --   Pilar: Yes.   Anne: -- and then you started with the audiobooks. Interesting about the audiobooks. And I'm going to say that might've been a few years back, right? There was no ACX back then, right? So --   Pilar: No, actually I started with ACX.   Anne: Oh, you did? Okay.   Pilar: So, so it was more recent.   Anne: Oh, okay, so it was recent then.   Pilar: 2012.   Anne: Oh, okay.   Pilar: They had just started 2013. They had --   Anne: Still that's a --   Pilar: -- they hadn't been around that long.   Anne: -- that's a while. Yeah. That's a while. That was when they just started, I believe. So, okay. And right there for audiobooks, that was kind of a, a cool thing because it was online, and you didn't have to necessarily have a demo to present. They were basically just offering you work and you could audition and not necessarily have to present a demo to get work there.   Pilar: Exactly. So I, again, not knowing anything that was back in the day when audiobooks were done in studios.   Anne: Yes, yes.   Pilar: So the publishing companies had their own studios, and you know, the big guys on campus went and they recorded there.   Anne: Exactly, exactly. Now, were you doing, were you doing Spanish or were you doing both English and Spanish?   Pilar: I was doing both. Actually I started out doing English, doing these like really funny romance things. And then I went the other way with Spanish and started doing religious things because somebody asked me to do religious stuff, and this was, and so here's where networking comes in. You never know. You just never know who is going to be somebody who's a valued contact. That's why, and I'll, I'll tell this story really quickly, and so I don't lose my place about this.   When I was working as an extra on "One Life to Live," there was this guy, and I, and I may have mentioned it. And I remember him saying so clearly that he said, you have to be nice to everybody on set. You know, we were just all looking at him like with stars in our eyes because he was so good-looking, and he was just like, you know, he was a series regular. And he said, be nice to everybody. And I never forgot that. So when I went to Colombia, I was very aware that I needed to treat the producer and the director exactly the same as the coffee lady, because the coffee lady, the person who brought me coffee, and that was her only job, she was just as important --   Anne: Oh yeah.   Pilar: -- as the producer.   Anne: Absolutely.   Pilar: You know, it's a courtesy thing. It's a human interaction thing. And I've always been very, very aware of that. But that experience --   Anne: Yeah.   Pilar: -- that I had on the set from somebody who was, you know, making, you know, a good amount of money to talk to us who we were just like these little star struck extras was really important.   Anne: See, it's not just a life lesson, right, but a business lesson to be nice to everyone. It's like be nice to the person that picks up the phone. You may think you want to talk --   Pilar: Exactly.   Anne: -- to the boss, but in reality, it all starts with the person who answers the phone or gets you the coffee. You never know.   Pilar: You never know where that person's going to be. So --   Anne: Exactly.   Pilar: -- fast forward to when I would do voiceover dubbing at this one studio, one of the engineers was, he was just such a sweet guy, and we got along really well. And he was so pleasant and jovial. And, you know, whenever he would ask me to do another take, I always did. And you know, if I thought that I could do it better, he would let me do it. You know, if it was just like a little kind of an alteration in, in the way I inflected in my voice. And he said, hey, would you be interested in doing audio books in Spanish? And I was like, sure. And you know, afterwards we spoke, and I did quite a few for him. And, you know, he said, I don't ask everyone this because obviously people can, you know, he, he gets different responses.   Anne: Sure.   Pilar: And so that's why I, I want to emphasize the importance of being really pleasant and nice and courteous to everyone. 'Cause you just, you just never know. And I, I did like four books with him, and that was just something on the side that I did. And I wouldn't have done that otherwise, if I had been like, you know, a bitch on wheels going to the studio.   Anne: And you know what's so interesting though -- let me just try to relate this to today in an online community, when you're communicating with people online and especially in these groups where you think it might be a closed group where you're only talking to voice actors, be nice to everyone, because there are people sitting there watching you, and reading those comments, and making judgements about your comment, if it's not nice, or maybe it's not becoming of a professional. They're watching and you never know who might be looking or listening behind the scenes. So be nice to everyone. I think it's just a wonderful thing to live by. Right? Just be nice to everyone. Be nice.   Pilar: I totally agree with that, Anne, and, and I would go even further because I was listening to somebody about this. When you're on Zoom, you know, it doesn't cost anything to smile.   Anne: True, so true.   Pilar: It really doesn't.   Anne: Yeah.   Pilar: You can just, you can just be pleasant, and you can have a nice sort of energy to you. I mean, I know we're always in sweats, and it just it's become a way of life. And we're probably going to be doing this for a long time, but there's a certain energy you bring when you come into a Zoom meeting. You know, you can either slouch and you can just be like, uh, you know, and we've all heard them. Everybody on --   Anne: Yeah.   Pilar: -- listening to this podcast has heard people who are just like these Nagging Nellies I guess, or the complainers.   Anne: Debbie Downers,   Pilar: Debbie Downers. Debbie Downers. It's like, oh yeah, I'm I'm in voiceover, but I --   Anne: But I can't.   Pilar: -- but I don't have a demo yet. And I haven't --   Anne: I can't do this.   Pilar: -- gotten any work in six months. It's like really, really? Are you kidding? Then why are you even here?   Anne: Yeah.   Pilar: You know, it's like, hey, I want to learn. I don't know anything about, oh, I don't know. Let's say you're doing, um, let's say a demo. You want to learn how to do a demo --   Anne: Video games or something.   Pilar: No, I'm thinking of, you know, those slot machine things?   Anne: Oh, casinos.   Pilar: Casinos. They're, they're actually, now that's a new genre that I heard about.   Anne: Yeah, exactly.   Pilar: I was like, oh my gosh.   Anne: Casinos and gaming. Yes. That kind of gaming.   Pilar: Casinos and -- yeah.   Anne: Yup.   Pilar: So it's like, let's say you go in, and you don't know anything about it. Well, hey, you're here to learn. I'm here to learn about casino and gaming. Yay. This is something new. So it's like, I feel like you can always put your best foot forward because it doesn't cost you anything.   Anne: Yeah. You can always learn, and you can always learn.   Pilar: Yeah. Exactly. You can always learn. So --   Anne: You can always learn something.   Pilar: Yeah.   Anne: Even if you're like, oh, I don't know. Like I didn't like this class or -- that's the teacher in me that says, you know, if you're a good student, you can learn anywhere, anywhere.   Pilar: Yup.   Anne: There's always an opportunity to learn.   Pilar: I totally agree. So back to the guy. So I did these four books with him, and somewhere along the way -- so I, I didn't have an audiobook demo. I had a bunch of audio book samples 'cause that's what you do.   Anne: Yup.   Pilar: And the experience at Fafcon, which was just so enriching. And I met some amazing people that I'm still friends with today, I realized everybody was like, oh yeah, the demo this, the demo that. I was like, why in the world do you need a demo? And then after I'd gotten all this information, and then I went home ,and I looked at all, everybody's website that I had met. And I was like, oh, this is our industry's equivalent of a resume.   Anne: Yeah, absolutely.   Pilar: That's basically very simple and quick and dirty explanation. You have to have a demo. So anybody going online, anybody who's considering you -- I just did a session yesterday, and I had a certain kind of demo for this 'cause -- I can't talk about it because obviously it -- now every -- you sign NDAs, wherever you go.   Anne: Absolutely.   Pilar: Um, so I auditioned for this company, and then they said, oh yeah -- he said, so he started talking about the style that he wanted for what we were doing. And he said, yes. And I, from your audition, but especially from your demos.   Anne: That's excellent.   Pilar: I was like, oh, okay. This guy did his homework.   Anne: Yeah.   Pilar: This guy really looked at my stuff before choosing me, which means that's why my demos have to be in order.   Anne: Absolutely. I'm so glad you said that because there are some people who think that you cannot book off of your demo. And I, I am in disagreement with that because I do believe that people that are doing their homework that are out -- they're searching online. If your demos are sitting there on your website, people listen to them. And I get requests all the time, you know, hey, I love -- can you do the voice in that spot, on your demo, in this particular spot that you're referencing? So I will get people. I know they've listened to the demo and I've booked.   Pilar: In 2020, I booked a year long campaign. I basically paid my rent and then some.   Anne: From a demo.   Pilar: From a demo. I did not audition. I didn't audition for. And I was like, wait a minute. Don't you need? And they were like, no, no. The agent, 'cause I'm so -- I was such a newbie, he was like, no, no, you don't need to audition. I mean, he literally said that to me. No, you idiot. They're booking you off the demo. And, and actually yeah, through my agent, I book off my demo all the time. So it's, I get people will request it because they've listened to the demos. So --   Pilar: Right.   Anne: -- I mean, of course I audition too, like everybody else, but I do book a considerable amount off of my demos.   Pilar: In terms of specifically a bilingual demo, what I did, what I noticed, first I, and I did what everybody does. The, the very first demo I did, I basically just did my spots. That's what I did, you know? 'Cause I, I didn't know any better, so I, okay. I've got a bunch of spots and let me, you know, hook it all together. And I actually got somebody who did it for, you know --   Anne: So for your bilingual demo, right? You --   Pilar: No, for my first demo.   Anne: Okay. First demo, you strung together spots that you had created. Okay.   Pilar: Yeah, exactly, because, you know, that's what you do when you're starting out, and there's nothing wrong with that. But then when I went to Fafcon and I realized, oh, these people actually had this professionally done, you know, the skeptic in me said, oh, come on, really? Why in the world would you need that? And I realized, because that's how it happens in this particular business. It may not happen any in any other business, but I've seen the reason why I've booked work, and why I need that because that's the way, that's the way it is. I mean --   Anne: Well, I think it also shows -- of course, you can put together a demo of spots that you've done already and lots of people do that. But also I think it can show a range. Maybe you get booked for a lot of -- a particular style of spot or a particular read. And I think a demo can showcase a broader range of acting that you can do.   Pilar: Yes.   Anne: And that's where I think that it's really advantageous as well as hooking up with someone who is familiar with what's out there and what's -- a good producer or a demo producer that knows what trends are out there, what companies are looking for and can implement that on the demo as well.   Pilar: Exactly. You just hit the nail on the head. You need somebody, you need a director. That's what a demo producer is.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Pilar: They know better than you do. So, you know, it's like you go in stages. So at first I thought, oh, I'll do my own demo. And then I realized, no, I need somebody who can direct me because they're going to showcase my voice to the best --   Anne: Yes.   Pilar: -- of my ability rather than me trying to figure it out because --   Anne: You're too close to it.   Pilar: -- the dirty little secret is that we don't know how we sound --   Anne: That's right.   Pilar: -- really and truly.   Anne: We're very close.   Pilar: We need somebody else. We need somebody else to sit there and tell us, no, no, no, you want the cosmetic read. This is, you know, you want the automotive read. You want the, you know, the Olive Garden read; they're all different. So after that I was like, okay, I'm going to bite the bullet. And I actually did, I had, uh, I did a kind of a double thing because, um, Bob Bergen was teaching a weekend class, and this just kind of came about up in San Francisco. And I had already booked time with Chuck Duran to do my demos because I wanted to go there. This was obviously before, 'cause now you can do it. You don't even, you don't need to --   Anne: You can do it online.   Pilar: Yeah. You can do it totally online. But I was like, no, I want it -- and I wanted to go to LA because there was something about it --   Anne: Sure. Well, there's something about the experience of being in a studio too in LA recording a demo that all you have to do is perform. And this is a really wonderful experience.   Pilar: Totally.   Anne: Yeah.   Pilar: So the demo that we did -- so I asked Chuck, I said, you know, I'd really like to do two. I'd like to do one in Spanish and one in English, because I was told don't ever, ever mix them. That was the first thing I was told. So I was like, okay, I'm not going to mix them. So we did it in English and in Spanish. So he did the English copy, and he actually speaks some Spanish. And so then I translated some of them and then we came up with some other things. And so then I had two demos. It was great.   Anne: Two identical demos?   Pilar: No.   Anne: Okay.   Pilar: Not identical.   Anne: You had different spots in Spanish then?   Pilar: Yeah. Some overlapped, but some did not. And you know, he was very strategic about it. So that was, that was, that was fine. Then I realized that I wanted to have a bilingual demo. I was just stubborn. I was like, I want a bilingual demo.   Anne: So wait --   Pilar: This is what I want.   Anne: So what do you consider a bilingual demo? Do you mean one that is both English and Spanish --   Pilar: Yes.   Anne: -- in the same demo? Oh, okay.   Pilar: And --   Anne: All right. So you are a bilingual talent that has a separate English demo and a separate Spanish demo. Now a bilingual demo means you're going to have both English and Spanish.   Pilar: Yes.   Anne: Okay.   Pilar: And I have -- if you listen to my bilingual demo, there's a little bit of a, of a little bit of an accent because that's something else that I get all the time. I don't really have an accent in either language.   Anne: Speak English with a Spanish accent.   Pilar: Yes. All the time.   Anne: Okay.   Pilar: That's what I get all the time.   Anne: Okay.   Pilar: So then that became almost a third category, and I did that actually online.   Anne: So that's a separate demo or just a separate --   Pilar: That's a separate demo.   Anne: Okay.   Pilar: That's a separate demo.   Anne: All by itself, the English with the Spanish accent --   Pilar: All by itself. The bilingual, yep.   Anne: Okay, but let's --   Pilar: But not all of them.   Anne: Okay, but --   Pilar: They're not -- so there's English with a Spanish accent. There's English, normal English. And then there's Spanish. They're all mixed in, in that specific bilingual demo.   Anne: Okay.   Pilar: And so I was told by my -- and so then whatever the agent happened, and they said, no, no, no, we don't want that. We don't want that on. You know, we just want the English and the Spanish. We want it separated. But I tell you, I have booked from that bilingual demo.   Anne: Right, which is sitting on your website.   Pilar: So -- exactly. And so it's kind of like when you go in, when you walk into a store, not everybody's going to buy the same thing.   Anne: Right.   Pilar: But you want to have pants, and you want to have a dress --   Anne: Well, people consume --   Pilar: -- and you want to have a jumper.   Anne: Yes. People consume your audio differently --   Pilar: Yup.   Anne: -- right?   Pilar: Right.   Anne: Agents will consume or deliver your audio separately, right? Or people that go to an agent website may shop differently than people that get to your website, in which case I like to have everything available on your website because you never know who's shopping. It could be an owner of a small company --   Pilar: Exactly.   Anne: -- or it could be a casting director or an agent. And so they're very different buyers because casting agents and talented -- that's what they do for a living eight hours a day, all day long. The owner of the small pizza place, you know, down the road, he doesn't cast voices all day long. He just knows what he hears and he knows what he likes. And so he does a Google search, comes up with your website, right, is bilingual voice talent. Boom. Here's your demo that is sitting there that maybe your agents didn't want to present both ways. And he says, that's it. That's exactly what I need.   Pilar: And here's the funny part. And I can't 100% confirm, but I suspect that -- 'cause of course, you know, when I, when I signed, I gave them all the demos. I'm pretty sure that the demo that they heard that booked me that job in 2020 -- it was just like an ongoing thing -- they booked me on the strength of the bilingual demo, where they heard me speak in English and in Spanish at the same time and with an accent.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Pilar: So don't be afraid of the having the accent. So, you know, I run into people all the time. So they, they're Spanish speakers, and they speak with a little bit of an accent. And then there are English speakers who have a little bit of an accent in Spanish, but specifically to the Spanish speakers who speak English, don't be afraid to put different ranges --   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Pilar: -- of your speaking in English, because like Sofía Vergara, she's Colombian. Very nice. She really puts it on thick in, in that, in the, in the whatever it was --   Anne: "Modern Family."   Pilar: "Modern Family." She doesn't speak like that all the time. If you listen to her, she puts it on thick in some movies and pulls back, 'cause she knows how to do that. You don't have to have a perfect accent in English or a perfect accent in Spanish either.   Anne: Well, you know what's so interesting, and I can see where your agent might say, no, we don't want it mixed. Right? We want one, that's English, one that's Spanish, because traditionally we've moved away from, if you remember in, in narration -- I'm going, I'll make the comparison with narration demos. It used to be a narration demos, you put every genre in there. You had like a documentary style. You had an e-learning, you had a corporate, you had, you know, all different styles of narration.   So it became all mixed up into one. And then we became very target specific. And so then it became, okay, you need a separate demo for an explainer, separate demo for corporate narration, separate demo for e-learning. But when you're talking bilingual, you have a client, a customer that may need multiple versions of Spanish speaking language. And so I think when you mix it together in English, English with a Spanish accent, Spanish, you're giving them all of the range that you have in that language.   Pilar: Exactly. I --   Anne: And that makes sense to me that that would work for you.   Pilar: Yeah. Yeah. And I've, I've had -- I've been in sessions where I speak English with no accent, and they want a run of the copy that way. Then they want a run of the copy with a little bit of an accent, and then they want to run of the copy with a lot of an accent. So I'm giving them three choices because --   Anne: Exactly.   Pilar: -- they don't know at the time how they're going to place it for those markets.   Anne: Right. And the markets may change. Right?   Pilar: Yeah.   Anne: The markets may --   Pilar: Exactly.   Anne: -- be more localized or, or regionalized, or I think it really just goes with the territory. Now, I guess my question is if they use it multiple times, are they paying you multiple?   Pilar: Yeah.   Anne: You know, that's what you want to make sure, which is why your agent helps.   Pilar: Yes.   Anne: And, and --   Pilar: That's where --   Anne: Yeah.   Pilar: -- that's where it gets tricky because I've really only been doing the bilingual work this way, to the extent that I've been doing it since I came out to Los Angeles.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Pilar: Usually it was that you either do the spot in English or you do the spot in Spanish, before I had an agent. You know like for example, on the pay-to-plays.   Anne: Yep.   Pilar: You don't really have, you don't get that oh, let's -- once in a very long while, but mostly it's like, okay, Spanish speaker, Latin American speaker or American speaker.   Anne: But if you think about it too, I would imagine the type of customer that would go through an agency or casting director to find a voice, they know the target market of who they're advertising to more so than, let's say, somebody on a pay-to-play. Right? They're just like, oh, I need Spanish. Maybe, that's just my guess, an educated guess because, and they come to the agent because they're much more target specific. It would seem to me that would make sense.   Pilar: I agree, because I think that a lot of the times the ad agency is looking for specific markets. So if it's Florida, it's going to be different from --   Anne: Exactly.   Pilar: -- Southern California.   Anne: Exactly. You're going to need a different Spanish that's in Florida than is in California, which makes a whole lot of sense to me. Wow.   Pilar: And it's different than Arizona too.   Anne: Yeah.   Pilar: So it's like, you're talking totally different markets.   Anne: This is so enlightening for me because what's cool is that I have questions for you because I have no real experience with how to market as a bilingual voice talent, because I'm not one. But yet you tell me your experiences, and it's, so it makes so much sense really for every one of us in the voiceover business, how we need to be very target specific. We need to be able to serve the -- our clients and our clients have many different needs, many different demographics, and the better that we can serve them and showcase, right, through our demos, through auditioning, how we can serve that community, then obviously the more chance we have to get the gig, and you know, that's what it's about.   Pilar: Yeah. And I, I just to, just to piggyback on that end, let's say you don't speak another language. Well, get your accents ready.   Anne: Yeah.   Pilar: Because a lot of the times I am called to do with a slight Southern accent or with a British accent. There are tons of things, whether it's the video game world or even commercial copy. So having an ear, developing that ear, looking at YouTube videos, there are tons of YouTube videos -- I think is important to listen for, let's say, a specific regionalism --   Anne: Right.   Pilar: -- because you never know what you're going to get in the voiceover. And I think one of the worst things to do is to get an audition and then be scrambling because --   Anne: Absolutely.   Pilar: -- you're like, oh my gosh, I don't know how to do this.   Anne: Right.   Pilar: Let me go look online. How am I going to do this? And then you're just, you're adding all that stuff. It's like --   Anne: Sure.   Pilar: -- why not take some time, take a look at it, listen to it, you know, practice, you know?   Anne: Well, and let me add the caveat here because of, you know, the climate past couple of years that if the casting specs request a native UK Londoner, then perhaps that's not necessarily something you audition for, if it's in the casting specs. But I think it's important that it starts there. Because again, we want, if people are looking for a native speaker or a native ethnicity, then I think that -- that we should respect those casting specs. And also that's a question, do we do a British accent these days? That's an interesting question. Are we taking away work if we do that, if we're not native? That is -- it's, it's a tough question that I think everybody is kind of wrapping their heads around, what is right in this industry these days?   Pilar: So I think that it is very important to distinguish and to be upfront about it because here's the thing. If you present, the person on the other end listening is going to know immediately if you are not a native speaker.   Anne: Yeah.   Pilar: So, I mean, that's just down the line. So I'm very, I'm very clear on the fact that I say anywhere, I, I, you know, on my resume, whatever, wherever I'm a native speaker in Spanish, I speak French fluently.   Anne: Yes.   Pilar: So if you drop me in the middle of Paris, I will not starve. I will be able to get myself anywhere. And I'm not --   Anne: I'm so glad you made that distinction. Yes.   Pilar: Yeah, I'm not a native speaker because native means I was born there or spent most of my life speaking French, and I haven't.   Anne: Right.   Pilar: So I can't, I can't say that with any kind of authority.   Anne: Right.   Pilar: Now in terms of accents, I have run across it. I, it's really more, I run across it much more with video games and especially animation --   Anne: Yes.   Pilar: -- where they're going to ask you --   Anne: Yup. They're going to ask you to have an accent.   Pilar: -- for a Russian accent. And that's really more of a character --   Anne: Yes.   Pilar: -- kind of a situation rather than this is a person of authority --   Anne: Sure, absolutely.   Pilar: -- where commercial copy comes in.   Anne: But again, that might be, and I'm just thinking, right, that could be come more of a discussion as we move on --   Pilar: Yes.   Anne: -- as well.   Pilar: Agreed. Yes.   Anne: So wonderful thoughts on that, and Pilar, of course, it's always a pleasure. I learn so much on every one of these episodes. Thank you so much.   Pilar: Well, you're my marketing guru, so there we go.   Anne: Well, hey BOSSes, I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect like a BOSS and find out more at ipdtl.com. Have an amazing week, you guys, and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Pilar: Hasta la vista, baby.   >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Moving from the closet booth to the…car booth? Anne and Pilar finish telling the story of Pilar's Journey in Part 3 of the Boss Voces premiere. Listen as Pilar finally packs her car (+ her cat!) and moves to LA in hopes of establishing her VO career and signing with a big agency. It's been a wild ride, but things are really coming together now on the West Coast for Pilar... More at: https://www.voboss.com/pilars-journey-part-3 Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm so happy to welcome back to the show special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar, hey, how are you today? Pilar: I'm doing great. How are you? Anne: I'm doing great. Hey, I have been so interested in your story, and we've learned so many things that are parallels to being in the voiceover industry today from your story. So our last couple of episodes, we talked about your telenova star personalities in Colombia and your -- I think it was nine years you were there in Colombia doing all kinds of acting -- Pilar: That's right. Anne: -- and some radio as well. And then you moved on to Miami, and we're talking to us about your radio career in Miami and how you evolved into that and also in voiceover. And now we're on when your next move, which it's so interesting, you moved from Colombia to Florida, to Miami, and I, I think it was all just things seem to take you where you needed to go to evolve in your career. And I think that's such a cool parallel with my experience as well. And hopefully BOSSes that are listening out there kind of have some similarities as well. So I'd love to hear about your, I guess what made you go from Miami to LA, and let's, let's continue the journey with you. Pilar: So I'm in Miami, and my, as I said, in the last episode, my land lady, she actually wrote me an email saying, I'm so sorry, but I'm going to sell the apartment. Anne: And you were there for how long? Pilar: 16 years. Anne: Wow. Pilar: Yeah. So my first thought was total and utter panic because I was like, oh my gosh, I have to get out of this apartment that I've lived in. And I've sort of made a life for myself. And I started looking around. I had been working with somebody. We've had like a 25 now, yeah, more than 25-year conversation with his really good friend of mine in New York and something that he used to say to me. I had started getting a little bit sort of, I want to do something else, but I'm not really sure what it is. You know, I, I've got four jobs and I've got the radio host thing, and it's just, you know, it's, I'm always hustling, and it would be nice to be able to do more voiceover. But you know, Miami is not a lot, a lot of opportunity there, unless it's in my booth. And he said something to me, because I was like, you know, I think I need to. And he would say until you decide to pack your bag, you're not going to move. And he said that to me for years. And I take it now is it's not just a physical thing. It's sort of a, if I want to do something, I have to go ahead and do it. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: Because I can talk about it -- Anne: You have to pack your bag. Pilar: -- until the cows. Yeah. So like, I can talk about it until the cows come home. But if I don't actually do it and decide to make a change, I'm never going to do anything, you know? Anne: Yeah. I love that. I love that. There you go manifestation again. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Especially for those BOSSes that are early in their careers, and they don't know, and they think about it, and they think this is what they want to do, but yeah. Actually taking the step and the, the physical part of yes, making that decision, putting the things in place, and it helps it come to fruition. Pilar: Exactly. So I didn't tell anybody, and this is something that I'm very conscious of. A lot of the times I would sit there, like I wrote like 17 or 18 songs when I lived in Colombia. And so I said, you know, I'm, I have songs and I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I would tell everybody that I was gonna put out an album eventually. I never put the album out, but I told everybody I was going to do it. And a lot of the times when you say things like that, you leak your energy. So when you have an intention in your mind, it's really important to keep it within yourself, um, and share it with people that you can trust and be aware that it's not something that you need to sit there and gab and gab and gab and gab about, but that you really need to focus on what it is that you're doing. And I think that, that's what I, I mean, I did that for a while, and I would sit there and I would complain, and I'd be like, oh, you know, I want more. And I'm really kind of in love with this thing called voiceover, but I don't really know what it is. And so I decided to just go ahead and kind of be quiet and say, okay, if I'm going to do something -- because I'd been doing it for 10 years and everything that I got was actually I got it. I didn't have an agent. I didn't, I, you know, had the on-camera agents, but I was doing voiceover. So I thought, okay, what, where can I go? And so VO Atlanta was coming up. And so I just thought, well, let me, let me check out Atlanta, because I love Atlanta. I've been there a few times, and I went and I saw these people and it was really wonderful. And then I thought, let me go. There was a, I think it was a WoVo was having a small, like a little mini session in San Francisco. So I thought, let me, let me go there. But once I left to go there, there was something about it. As much as I loved Atlanta, Atlanta was, I mean, at that point, um, this is two years ago now going on three, it's really, it, it definitely has a very strong voiceover, but it was more for on camera. And I realized I really want to focus on my voiceover, you know? And, and I had always thought, I mean, I always knew that in LA, you know, LA for me, it was like the Olympic village. And I was like, do I want to, I've always dreamed of going to LA and this, my friend Dale has been telling me would tell you, pack your bag. Anne: Yeah. LA is weird dreams coming true. Right? People move to LA with their dreams. Pilar: Right, exactly. What was it that they say in -- "what do you wish for? It your dream!" Was it that -- it was this great guy at the very beginning of "Pretty Woman." Anne: Oh! Pilar: He says it at the very beginning. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: And he says it at the very end. Anne: Yup. Pilar: "What do you wish for?" It was, it's really cool. So I went to San Francisco and then I went and I spent a few days with a friend in LA. And as soon as I got there, I was like, oh, I'm supposed to be here. And I just knew. Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: I just, it was like, I arrived. And I just knew that that was the place. Anne: Yup. Pilar: So I went back to Miami and I started setting intentions, just like I had when I moved to Colombia. I was like, okay, I'm just going to start setting my intentions here. And I was like, okay, I'm going to need a place to live. And I had time before I had to leave. So this is like in March, March/April, and I had a lead from a very kind person who wrote a letter to Atlas Talent, and it turned out and of course, it's the universe, because they were looking for bilingual voiceover talent. Anne: There you go. Pilar: So I get this email, and they're like, we'd like to have a meeting. And I was like, oh my gosh, they want to have a meeting? They want to have a meeting with me? Are you kidding? I was like, I, so I didn't want to tell them that I wasn't there yet. So I was like, you know, I'm in the process. So I wrote them back and I said, you know, thank you so much. I'm in the process. I'll let you know when I get there. Anne: Now, can I ask you how long ago this was? Pilar: Two years ago. It's going to be three years. Anne: Okay. And it's so interesting because again, the timing of everything, right? I feel like it's important to me. We're really coming into, you know, inclusivity and diversity and needing bilingual and more and more and more. So that makes sense to me. Pilar: Yes. And, and that will play later -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- into that. So I started packing, I started throwing things away. I started giving things away because I realized I can't move with all my stuff. 'Cause it was just, it was just too expensive. So I had to, you know, sell, give away, donate. And I got July 19th, 2019, I got into the car. I packed all my stuff, and with my kitty, with Paco. Anne: And drove across the country. Pilar: I drove across the country. I picked up a very good friend of mine who actually, we started out almost -- I met him almost as soon as I got to, uh, Miami ,Aaron, Aaron Goldenberg. And he is an actor as well. He was living in Atlanta at the time, but I flew him back from Atlanta to Miami on my frequent flyer miles. And we drove across the country, which I highly recommend. I mean, you know, this is -- Anne: With a cat. Pilar: Of course. Anne: With a cat. Pilar: With a cat, of course. I highly recommend -- Anne: How was your booth kitty in the car for a cross-country trip? That would be interesting. Pilar: I have to tell you, he was really good considering, you know, of course there was meowing going on. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: I never let him out of the car. I mean, I never let him out of his travel bag because, you know, that's just not a good idea with -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- with cats, but he was really good. Anne: What about when you stay -- I can't imagine you did the drive in one fell swoop. Pilar: No, no, no, no, no. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: It took us seven days. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: We would drive, I would park some litter in the bottom of the car. I had some litter there and I had water there. And so what I would do is that I would take him out when we would do rest stops. I would take him out and we would leave him alone. We would close the car. We would leave him the most. So he would check it out. He never went to the bathroom in my car. Anne: Oh my gosh. Pilar: I have to -- yeah, no. So what would happen is when we would get to a place, I would immediately, the first thing I would do was I would set up his kitty litter box with a little portable thing that I had, and I would put it in the closet usually so he would have privacy and he would go immediately. So -- Anne: I can't imagine them holding it for like an eight-hour ride. Like -- Pilar: I know. And the thing is, it was right there. That's what was so obnoxious that he wouldn't go. And I had the kitty litter there for him, but he refused to go. So, you know, whatever. Anne: We digressed, we digressed -- Pilar: We digressed, yes. Sorry. Anne: -- into the studio -- into the studio cat -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- conversation. But I'm sorry, I had to, I had to ask. Pilar: But it can be done. I'm just, I'm telling you now, Anne, it can be done if you want to go across with the kitties, it can be done. Anne: See, we manifested it. We manifest -- we manifest our kitties as well. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Crossing the country. Pilar: Um, yeah. So it was, it was, it was great. I saw the most beautiful parts of this country. I was like, it's, it's really, when you realize, for those of you living in the States -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- you just realize the vastness of this country and how amazing it is. You just, you really don't get that um, you know, when you fly in. Driving, it was, it was just, it was such a great experience driving through all across -- all of the states. Anne: That's what I'm going to do when I retire. Pilar: It's definitely worth doing. Anne: Yup. Pilar: So we, we arrived in Phoenix, and Aaron had to fly back for a gig. So I dropped and we -- that had that already been planned. So I dropped him off in Phoenix, and it was close enough that I could, you know, drive the rest of the way myself. It's like 600 miles. So it was long. But I had, I had done that before. So I drove. And then when I was literally inside LA, when I was literally inside, when I was inside the -- in California, I took a picture. I was like, okay, I've reached California. So I took a little, a little post -- I did, I just did a little Instagram post. And when I got within the confines of LA county, when I knew I was within LA county, I stopped the car. I pulled to the side of the road. I stopped the car, and I sent an email so the agent would know that I was there because I didn't want to lie about that I was there when I wasn't. So I was like, okay, I'm already physically here. So then they know. So then they wrote me back pretty quickly after that. And they said, you know, we're every, and it was, you know, it was the summer. So everybody was on vacation. So I got to LA, I wrote them and I, I saw them like about two weeks after I arrived. I arrived at a friend's house. And then I started doing Airbnb, and then I found a place through a good friend, Randy Thomas. She found me -- a friend of hers had a room. So I rented a room, this dear man. So I just started living basically out of my car. I just, I had all this stuff, obviously. So I took some stuff out, but I would live out out of my car because like, what else am I going to do? Anne: Right. Pilar: I can't bring all that stuff 'cause it wouldn't fit in this room. Anne: And this is before, this is before pandemic. Pilar: This is way before pandemic. Anne: Yeah. Okay. Pilar: Yeah. So, so I'm, I'm -- Anne: Well, not so far, actually. Pilar: No, no, no, no, not that far. No, because this is August. This was August. So -- Anne: Right, pandemic March. Pilar: Yeah. This was the August, 2019. Anne: Okay. Because was it 2020? Pilar: Yeah, yes. Anne: Where have the years gone? Pilar: Yes. I know, exactly. We went through a whole year and a half. Right? It's already -- Anne: Didn't we have two years of pandemic? I'm not sure. Pilar: Yeah, we're about to reach two years of pandemic, yes. Anne: So okay, so you're about a year before the pandemic then. Pilar: Yeah. Six months. Anne: Oh, okay. Pilar: Nine months, nine months. Anne: Okay, nine months. Pilar: Nine months. So -- Anne: Like a pregnancy, like -- Pilar: Exactly, like a pregnancy. Exactly. So I had nine months ,and that's really important. Anne: Yes. Pilar: So I, I, um, I, I go to the agent. I, you know, I get all dolled up and I, I get there super early to the appointment with the agents, and they were like, so incredible. So nice. So normal. I was like, wow, okay, this is just, and they asked me questions. And so I, I, you know, I give them my stuff. I give them my little, you know, my little elevator pitch, which by the way, everybody needs an elevator pitch. That's really important to have an elevator pitch. That's what I'm discovering is like, you know, just basically like a little minute of your life. Anne: Sure. Pilar: You know? Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: And so then they, you know, they asked me, they said, do you want to freelance? Which is what I had been doing for 16 years, because Miami is a right to work state, so with all my on-camera agents. And I didn't, I didn't have any experience with, with VO agents. And they said, do you want to freelance? Do you want to, you know, sign? And I was like, oh, where's the page where I can sign on the dotted line? I was like, I'm not, I'm not freelancing if you're giving me this choice, I'm signing, you know, because obviously California is not a right to work state. It's like, you sign with an agent, you're done. So I was like, yep, I'm on board. And then afternoon, they sent me an audition. And I was like, okay, how do I do this? So I became really good at auditioning inside my car. Anne: Tell me about your setup in the car. Pilar: So the setup is, it's actually, it's a really cool setup. So you sit, you have to sit in the backseat. You pull the seat all the way to -- forward. And I have a Sennheiser 416. Anne: Yup. Pilar: So you pull the seat all the way forward. You sit on -- and, you know, it's, it's, it's a maneuvering situation to get your butt in the bottom of the car, not on the seat, but on the floor of the car. Anne: And we'll share a picture of this setup on our website, on the VO BOSS website. Pilar: Totally. Oh yeah. Anne: I would love to share. Pilar: Oh, I have it. I have it. I have a picture. Yeah, totally. Totally. And then the laptop goes on the back seat, and then I've got my Focusrite 2i2 there as well. And then little, you know, the cables. And then I've got my Sennheiser with a stand in the middle of where the, on the -- Anne: Console, on the console? Pilar: On the console. Anne: Okay. Pilar: No, in the middle of where the front seats are. Anne: Yes, yes. Right. Pilar: So it's that little it's, it's not on top of where the dashboard is, but it's in the middle. So I'm sitting down, and I'm looking -- Anne: I call that the console. Pilar: Oh, you do? Okay. We call that -- Anne: Well, I do, the console in between the seats. Pilar: Yeah. Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. Yeah. Okay, cool. It's like, I'm not familiar with that lingo. Sorry. I'm not that advanced! So I don't know why they used to call -- we used to call them jump seat -- the jump parts. I don't know, whatever. Anyway, so I'll take a little table. I'll call it the table. So I'd put my set, the, the holder, the mic holder and the Sennheiser. Anne: Yup. Pilar: And I would start doing auditions from there. 'Cause I originally, I had a, uh, a dear friend who would also let me use his studio, but sometimes I couldn't get to the studio in time if it was quick. Anne: Right, right. So it's not like you were living out of your car. I mean, you had a place to stay; you just didn't have a booth. Pilar: I didn't have a booth. Yeah. And the thing is I didn't have room. Anne: Yeah. And so your car acted as the booth. Pilar: Exactly. My correct as the booth. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And so I had the trunk of my car was filled with stuff -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- because I couldn't take everything out, 'cause it just wouldn't fit in the room that I was living in. You know? Anne: Yes. Pilar: So like when I wanted to wear something different, I would go and get something out of the car -- Anne: Go in the trunk. Pilar: -- and then -- yeah, exactly it was, it was actually kind of an easy way to live, you know? Anne: Right? Pilar: -- 'cause I, I didn't have that much. Anne: Minimalist. There you go. Pilar: So it was perfect. And then this guy had a garage. So sometimes when I needed real quiet, because it was -- the lawn mower situation -- Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: -- in California is just a nightmare and a half. There's always lawn blower, leaf blowers everywhere every day. So I would go and I would park the car, and I would, and this was summer. This was still summer. This was August. I was, I was just sweat like a pig. Anne: Sweltering in the back seat there. Pilar: Totally. But it was perfect because I was really, it was like, I was insulated. Anne: But not like Miami. I can't imagine if you were in -- Pilar: No, no. Anne: -- a car in Miami. Pilar: Oh no, that would be horrible. No, I would. I would be, you know, they wouldn't find me. I'd be asphyxiated. It'd be so bad. Anne: So you did your first audition in the car. Pilar: I did my first -- Anne: For Atlas. Pilar: Yeah, I did my first audition -- I think I did my first -- yes, for Atlas. Yeah, absolutely. 'Cause that was, that was like the first I, I needed a place to go. So that's where I did it. And then I did it at this friend's house as well. A lot of the times, you know, I would come in and I would, I would do like three or four, you know, auditions. I did them for five months, five months. Okay? So I would audition. I finally found again, it was, I wanted a quiet place. I asked for a place. I found this wonderful woman who's also a voiceover person. And she had converted her closet, not her closet, but this other house where she had, uh, she had, she used to do it. So it was actually already sort of treated. It was already a treated space where I'm, where I'm talking to you from now. So it was, it was perfect. Anne: Ah, so you're still in the same place? Pilar: Oh yeah. I'm still at the same place. Anne: There you go. Pilar: You know, when I found the place, it was a matter of, I asked around and this person said, oh, I have this friend of mine who's looking for somebody. So it was just, it was so perfect. It was one of these aha moments. I was like, this is it. This is where I'm supposed to live. I saw the place. And I was like, I want, you know, this is where I want to be. And the first day that I moved in, I had not finished moving in when I had it professionally treated and everything set up here where I'm speaking to you from now. So it was perfect. And I just auditioned and I auditioned. And when I say this am, I mean, it, I didn't get one gig. Anne: So for five months, you auditioned and you auditioned. Pilar: I got zero and I, yeah. I took classes of course, 'cause I realized, oh, this is a different scenario. I'm in the Olympic village of voiceover. Anne: Sure. Pilar: This is not, you know, we're not in Kansas anymore. Anne: Right. And when you auditioned, what sorts of opportunities -- were they bilingual? Were they English? Spanish? What were they? Both. What did they send you? Pilar: They were everything. It was like, they were everything. And it was like, oh my gosh, stuff that I would never have been able to do if I was in Miami. Now this was pre-pandemic. Anne: Yup. Pilar: Obviously the situation has changed, but it was also a testament to my agents who were like willing to put me out there because you know, they're always talking and there's always feedback obviously. Anne: Sure. Pilar: So I would get auditions for McDonald's. Well, I would never, I've never been able to do that in Miami. Anne: Hold on a minute. I'm going to back the truck up there for a minute because you say there's always feedback. So with great agents, I think you get great feedback. Pilar: Yes. Anne: And if you are actively requesting feedback, I think that that can very much help. I know there's -- some people never get feedback. I think that that is something that is very different. And when you're shopping around for agents, and agents are shopping around, it really is a partnership. And I think that if you want a great agent, they will, they will be absolutely willing to give you feedback and help to propel your career. Just like you're going to help them get clients. Pilar: Exactly. And you just made a really good point because it's a partnership. Anne: Yup. Pilar: It's not, oh, the agent is up there, and I'm down here or, "oh, you work for me. You got to get me the rules." No, no, no, no, no. Anne: Right, exactly. Pilar: It's not a community. It's like, you've literally created a community. Now, the agents won't say anything until you ask them. Anne: Yes, absolutely. Pilar: If I'm in the driver's seat, I need to drive my career. So I need to ask for that. And I have to be able to, you know, put my ego to the side -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- and listen to what they're saying. Anne: Yes. Pilar: And not say, oh, well, they don't know what they're talking. They don't know that. You know, it, it really is. It's a, it's a real give and take. It's about giving it. It's about receiving. Anne: So now in your five months, when you were not booking, were you asking for feedback? Pilar: Not at the beginning, but then I asked for who do you recommend that I study with? Anne: Right, right. Pilar: And they were like, okay, we have this and this and this. And I was like, okay, great. And I also asked other, I asked a lot of other voiceover people. I was like, well, who do you recommend here? Who do you -- so then I started taking classes. Anne: Sure. I think what's nice is that they, first of all, I would feel like because they are a large talent agency and a very well-known one. The fact that they gave you the opportunity, like if it were, I think any normal person going through that, and I'd start to be, oh my gosh, I haven't booked for five -- you know, it would start to psych me out. Oh my gosh, what if they drop me? Or what if, and it could be a nerve-wracking kind of situation. If you feel like, well, there's gotta be something that needs to change here. So you want to book for your agent. Pilar: And you know what the thing is, Anne? To me, it's a testament to my agent, the agency that I have, and I feel really blessed. They were very -- it's not -- they knew that I was there. They knew that I was new, and they were -- Anne: They had faith in you. Pilar: -- it's not that they were hands off. Anne: They had faith in you, right? Pilar: Exactly. And there was somebody that I talked to in the office one time, because I was just like really freaking out at one point. I was like, oh my God, they must think -- Anne: Yeah, I can imagine. Pilar: -- who is this person? Why did we hire her? You know, it's like, she's not doing anything. And she was so nice and to the point, and she's like, you know what? It was almost like she said -- she didn't say it this way, but what she meant from that conversation was we know you're a newbie. That's why we're throwing it all out at you. We're giving you the space to do this. Anne: Nice. Pilar: So, uh, and I can't, I can't remember how she said it, but that's what I walked away from. Anne: Sure. Pilar: And I was like -- walked away with -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- and I thought, oh, thank God. You know, I'm not -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- like I'm not going to be fired immediately. You know what I mean? Anne: What a nice, what a nice testament to really a working partnership and that your agent has faith in you, and they're giving you -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- that space. And I think obviously they had to have known when they first spoke to you, when they first met you, that you had the wherewithal to be successful from whatever, from your past experience, from your personality, from your drive, whatever it was, they had that faith in you, and they kept that faith in you. So that's a really nice, that's a really nice story. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: I'm hoping that our listeners will take that for what it is, because I think getting an agent and having an agent and having a relationship with an agent is something we could have a whole podcast episode about -- Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Anne: -- in regards to the, how to work together as a partnership. Pilar: Yeah. And, and, and I think for me, what was really great was that I was willing to listen to them, and I was also willing to be transparent with them. Anne: Absolutely. Pilar: So they knew, they knew where I was coming from. I mean, they knew that I had radio experience because I have all this stuff on my website. Anne: Sure. Pilar: But they also knew that I was very new to the business in terms of commercial versus all these other genres in the world that they live in. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Pilar: And they were willing to give me that latitude. Anne: Great. Pilar: So transparency, I think, is really important in this world. Anne: Oh, I completely agree. Pilar: And to be able to turn it into something of, not that I don't know this -- into, I'm very willing to learn -- Anne: How can I -- Pilar: -- and I'm willing to work hard, yeah. Anne: -- how can I learn? How can I, yeah. I'm eager to learn. There you go back to, back to your roots there. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: I may not know, but I am absolutely eager to learn. And I think there's a lot to be said for that in just an overall mentality about what we do every day in our -- I mean, there's always opportunities to learn, and you're talking to an educator here, one that was in front of the classroom for 20 years. We always, always have an opportunity to learn and to improve. And I think that if you take nothing else away from our episode, absolutely, this is one of them. And there's always ways, if you're transparent, if you want to learn, you're eager to learn, people appreciate that. And agents, especially, I think appreciate that. Pilar: Absolutely. Yep. I totally agree. Anne: So five months, nothing. Then what? Pilar: Then I booked this job and -- Anne: Commercial? Pilar: Commercial. It's a commercial job. And I will never forget when the check came in. I thought they'd made a mistake. I almost called them and said, you've, you've made a mistake because this has gotta be wrong. Luckily I called a friend of mine. I al -- I literally, I had my hand on, on the press send a button. I thought we just call a really good friend of mine back east who's a voiceover. And she started laughing when I told her. She said, no Pilar, that's the right amount. This is what it means when you are a union actor, to get paid in the industry. So I was like, oh, thank God. I'm going to be able to pay my bills. Anne: Yup. Pilar: And then that was the end of January. And then in March, the pandemic hit and I was ready. And so I just, I started booking. I just started booking and booking and booking. Anne: Success begets success. Pilar: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: Fantastic. Wow. What a great story. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: What a great story. And so now during this pandemic, you're still in the same place, right? Except now you have -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- you don't have to necessarily record in the back of your car because you have a studio, which is awesome, which is where you are talking to me now from. And you are, I hope just a booking machine. And now is Atlas your only -- I imagine you have more than one agency or is Atlas pretty much your agency you're working with right now? Pilar: Well, I was with Stars before I was with Atlas, and they were, you know, they were okay with it. You know, and they're, they're totally okay with having other regional agents that are not, you know, in their market. I've looked around for others. But you know, when I started looking around the pandemic had hit. So they were really swamped. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So they're really my go-to people right now. Anne: Sure. Pilar: You know, it's, it's not easy because yes. I had a huge glut in 2020, and then 2021 was a lot quieter. It's been a lot quieter than I expected because I, you know, it was just the, I don't, if it was, I was the new kid on the block or what it was. And so, you know, for me, it's like finding other ways to be creative -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- and to be able to support myself in that way. And so it's like, I'm constantly learning, you know? And if there's, if there's one thing that I can, a takeaway for me, from what I've been talking about is that I always have a beginner mindset. So if there's a place where I'm feeling stuck, because this is an area, let's say, where I'm not booking, it's like, okay, what other ways can I find -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- to do it creatively? Anne: And to evolve, right, as an artist. Pilar: And to evolve. Exactly. Because it's not just about booking the big, you know, commercial job. Anne: Sure. Pilar: It's about how can I incorporate everything that I've learned, and how can I maybe use that in a different way? Anne: And I'll tell you what I, what I love is first of all, your story is so wonderful because you try, you have faith, you manifest, you move. And while you struggle, you know, and fail sometimes, you ultimately come out where you become successful. And it has happened from the story that has evolved here to you multiple times. So each time when you move, you're growing, you're hitting those stumbling blocks. You're growing, you're finding success. And even now you came to LA, you got the agent, you got the jobs, you did really well. Now you hit a little bit of a lull. And so again, you're going through that cycle of how can I improve? How can I grow? What can I do to, to learn? And I think it's such a wonderful testament to how our industry works and how the artistry works of voiceover, where we just must continuously learn. We must continually take those chances. We must continually learn from our failures, right, and put into practice things that we can do to be successful. And what a great story. I absolutely love it. So I want to take the time now to thank you again for telling the story and helping us in being so inspiring. Because I think in our next episodes, I really want to get more into the nitty gritty of the day to day voiceover career that you are now embracing and, and living so that we can talk about how BOSSes out there can, you know, maybe do the same so that they can be successful. Pilar: Absolutely. And I'm very, very excited to keep going. Anne: Yeah. All right. Well, BOSSes, I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Take care. Bye-bye. Pilar: Bye, fellow BOSSes. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Ok, Bosses. We're picking up right where we left off…in Miami! Anne & Pilar continue discussing Pilar's Journey in Part 2 of the Boss Voces Premiere. Pilar begins in Miami with no TV gigs and begins her radio + voice dubbing career. More at https://www.voboss.com/pilars-journey-part-2 Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm honored to bring back special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar is a bilingual voice actor, telenova star, and radio personality born and raised in New York City. She broke into show business and had roles with "Ugly Betty," "Poor Pablo," "Eternally Manuela," and "El Cartel" filmed in Colombia and Miami. And in our last episode, we talked about her story, and we ended up from Colombia, now she's arrived in Miami, so we're going to continue the story today. And before that, I want to say that she also has booth a booth kitty, and outside of my booth right now, Pilar, is my cute little Sabrina cat who is jealous because the door is closed, and I know she wants to come in, so. She's -- she wants to come in and talk to you as well. Pilar: I love it. I love it. Anne: Pilar, it's so great to have you back. Pilar: I am so glad to be here. Thank you, Anne. Anne: And what an amazing story, like I said, triple, quadruple threat, TV, radio, voiceover, singer. I mean, you have done it all. And what an interesting, wonderful story you had telling us last episode about your theater experience, your television experience, and your success story in Colombia. And you decided to come back to the States and decided to move to Miami. Pilar: Yes. Anne: So let's pick up from your arrival in Miami and your career once you got there. Pilar: So I get to Miami, and I am staying with my cousins who live in Key Biscayne. I'm thinking I'm all that, you know? I'm this telenovela star. I'm -- where do I sign? Luckily I got, I got an agent really quickly because a friend of mine introduced me to this friend who was a casting director. And the casting director met with me and said, hey, you know, there's this agent. And so I get this agent really quickly and, and she starts sending me out. Anne: So yeah, this is an agent, not a voiceover agent, but you had just started when -- Pilar: No. Anne: -- you were, at the tail end, I think when you were at Colombia, you said you started doing some voiceover for an animated series. So this agent is on camera -- Pilar: Yeah, this is, this is -- Anne: -- casting agent? Pilar: Yeah, my whole up until now, my whole concentration was acting. It wasn't -- Anne: Got it. Pilar: -- voice acting because that's how I had made my bread and butter for the previous nine years. Anne: Sure. Pilar: And so the, the voice acting that I did in Colombia and, you know, the fascination I had with radio, it was just kind of like a, a fun thing. You know? It was just kind of like a fun thing, but I didn't look at it as anything kind of anything serious. So I get this on-camera agent, and I start auditioning and she sends me out on audition and auditions and auditions and I get nothing. And I'm like, oh dear. Okay. Anne: Interesting. You talked before about how you had set visions, right? Pilar: Yep. Anne: And you meditated? Pilar: Yep. Anne: Did you go back to that once you were in Miami? Pilar: No. Anne: Interesting. Pilar: I did not. I did not. Not at the beginning. Okay? The one thing that is probably been a constant my entire life is the importance of training. So even while I was on television every night, I was taking acting classes, and I did them periodically and I worked with some great people in Colombia. And so then I realized, ooh, I'm not booking. I had better get on the horn, and I had better start going back. And so I started taking auditioning classes because I just, I had really stopped auditioning, you know. I'd, I would audition for a role and I would get it, you know? It was just kinda like -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- kind of thing. Anne: I was gonna ask you, if you note, what were differences, right, when you were in Colombia versus Florida, what differences in the auditioning process or differences in, I dunno, anything in terms of getting roles? What was different that you noticed? Pilar: Well, for one thing, the community is, was much larger. So there was a lot more competition. Anne: Got it. Pilar: Which means that people were way more polished in their auditions. It was very, very much more competitive. So I realized because I was out of practice. Auditioning was not something that I was doing on a, on a regular basis. When I was living in New York, the -- I did that on a regular basis. And you know, one of the things that I learned in, in Miami from a very close friend of mine, he said, auditioning is the job. Acting is what you get to do once in a while. Auditioning is the job, acting as the hobby. Anne: Yeah. Similar to voice acting. Right? Pilar: Exactly. So I started, I started doing that, and, uh, I started getting better at auditioning. And I started actually booking theater roles. So I became pretty, pretty regular in booking theater gigs, which I loved because I got to, you know, I, I got to go back to, you know, when I used to do it a lot more after college and stuff, but still, you know, that didn't really pay the bills. One thing that I would notice was that the theater actors, they would talk about how they were going to the studios, dubbing studios, or they were coming to where they grew up going from. And I was like kind of curious, you know, what's, what's this whole dubbing thing about? And so a friend of mine said, well, you know, why don't you go to this studio? And so I, I called somebody up and it was a friend of a friend. And so I went and I auditioned, and that's the very first time I saw like a studio with different booths. And, and I thought, oh, this is really interesting. And so I was dubbing from another language, and they were all in Spanish. They were doing all these dubbing, these, these telenovellas from Spanish into English. And so -- Anne: Did you have any training in it previously or was it just something that you kind of picked up? Pilar: Zero, yet again, just like when I went down to Colombia, I had very little training and in TV, and then I, I had no training in, in doing this. Anne: But then you had all experience in television and being in television -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- so that I'm sure helped you in your dubbing experience because you already knew what it was like to be the actor, right, on camera. Pilar: Right. Anne: And now you could absolutely, probably just parallel that with dubbing. Pilar: Exactly. So the acting part of it was the important part of it. Anne: Yeah. Yup, exactly. Pilar: But there's the technical side of it, which is you have to match lips and as they say out here, lip flaps, so you have to figure that part out. So I auditioned a lot. Didn't get very far and I continued. I continued to do my theater and I did a little bit of commercials. Anne: Now, at this time, was it all in Spanish or was it both? Pilar: No, it was all dubbing from Spanish into English. Anne: Okay. Pilar: Yeah. It was 100% or from -- but I was just auditioning, you know. So I auditioned, I would say I auditioned quite a few times, and then I actually got a gig. Anne: Meaning, well, I guess my question would be like, were you auditioning for roles in Spanish or both Spanish and English at the time auditioning? Pilar: So here's the thing, my experience up until this moment was only with dubbing. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I had no other access to like, what is now, you know, doing commercial voiceover or medical narration or e-learning, I didn't know any part of that business. Anne: I'm thinking even on camera, were you, when you were auditioning on camera, were you auditioning for roles that were Spanish -- Pilar: Yes. Anne: -- or for Spanish and English both? Pilar: Both. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I was doing both. I was, yeah. So my life has always been about doing -- Anne: Both. Pilar: -- doing both. Yeah. Anne: Yeah, the reason why I wanted to call that out is because for a person -- I am not bilingual. Right? For me, there's only just English. So I want to make sure that I hear when you are talking bilingual, like you have like almost, is it more opportunity or is it more work for more opportunity? And what are the things that you need to be considerate of when you are auditioning for both Spanish and English or are there differences?So it's just something for me, it's a new perspective. Pilar: So I think that the most important thing, really, it all comes down to the acting, Anne. It's not really -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- about the language because it all starts from inside. So for me with the on-camera, and this is what I discovered when I was doing dubbing, is that whenever you're looking at, what's in front of you on the screen, if you're dubbing a, a woman who is -- or a character who is in pain or who is crying, you have to feel that pain, you have to feel that sadness. Because if you don't, it's not going to show up in your voice. Anne: Sure, sure, exactly. Pilar: It's not about manipulating the voice. It's about starting from the inside out, which is what a lot of people, when they're first starting out in the business, I hear this all the time -- Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: -- everywhere, on Clubhouse. Oh, I've got a really good voice. And how do I make my voice this? And it's like, no. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: That's not what it's about. It has to start -- that's why the acting -- Anne: From the inside. Pilar: -- matters. It has to start from the inside. Anne: Yeah. I, sorry, I didn't, I got off a little bit on a tangent there -- Pilar: No, no, no, no, no! Anne: But yeah. So yeah, continuing while you are auditioning like crazy in Florida. Pilar: So I'm auditioning like crazy for voiceover, but I'm still doing my, my theater. I was doing my commercials. I gave myself for the first time in my life, I, I went on this cruise. It was called, what was it called? Celebrate your life, a Louise Hay cruise. Very, very spiritual. And there were all these great speakers. Wayne Dyer was there. Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: Gregg Braden was there. It was a, it was like the coolest thing. And I'm like, oh my gosh. I met somebody. It was like, Ooh, this is really cool. And then I came back, and I get this call for an audition. And there, this friend of mine, who's an actor. He's like, well, you know, they want you to audition in this dubbing studio for this role. And I get the role. And at the same time that I get the role, I have this major health challenge, and I'm like, oh no, what's going to happen? And I'm like, you know what, I'm going to do this. I'm just going to do this. And then the enormity of it hits me 'cause I'm like, oh, wait a minute. I don't know anything about voiceover. I don't know how to do this. It's like, I'm an actor. And so I was really lucky because I had this great engineer, Rafael. I'll never forget him. And he kind of guided me, and we would do it like on a weekly basis. 'Cause I was dubbing a show. I was dubbing a series and it was coincidentally, it was Colombian. So I just started dubbing an episode or two a week, and he would teach me. And he'd be like, okay, I need a little bit more from you, do this from you. A lot of it was just observing and listening and looking what was on the screen and doing what that character was doing on the screen and incorporating it into myself in English, through my voice. So, you know, I did that, I got better. Then I got a call from another studio and then a third studio. And I was like, oh, this is really cool. Anne: Success begets success. Pilar: Success begets success. Right? Anne: Exactly. Pilar: Now here's the thing about Miami. Miami is a right to work state. So the rates are not that great. Dubbing in itself is, is a, is not -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- a moneymaker. Let's put it that way. Anne: I was gonna say that. And especially now given the current situation, I know Netflix has just gone crazy, and there's lots of opportunities for dubbing these days. Pilar: Yes. But here's the thing, the good thing about the union, they signed an agreement. I think it was two years ago, with Netflix. So they have to have certain rates. Anne: Good. Excellent. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Well, I was just meaning I've -- I'm hearing so much about more opportunities these days since the pandemic, since there's just a lot of -- Netflix has been producing a lot more movies -- Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: -- and the streaming stations. So I feel like there's more dubbing opportunities that I'm hearing about these days. Pilar: Yes. Not a ton. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Pilar: It's really great. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So, so I started doing more and then I realize, oh, well this is interesting, but again, not much money. So I thought, well, let me, let me try. Somebody told me about an audiobook kind of a situation. I thought, oh, okay. This is interesting. Let me do, let me see what's going on with that. And so I get on ACX. I do my first book. The book is terrible. Okay? I'm gonna, I'm just gonna tell you right now. Anne: This is why I don't do books. I'm just saying. Pilar: Oh my God, the book, I didn't want -- the book itself, the book itself wasn't terrible. My recording. I mean, I don't think, you know, people have bought the book, and I've done, you know, a bunch of books since then. But I just, I look back at that first book, and I was like, oh my gosh, it's really kind of frightening. But you know, I really got into it because it was a character driven. Anne: Sure. Pilar: Again, though, if you're not a technical person -- everybody talks about getting into audiobooks. The one thing I will say, and it's, it's gotten a lot better. The technology has gotten a lot better, but if you're not a super-duper wiz at editing -- Anne: Oh, it's a lot of work. Pilar: It's a lot of work is all I'm going to say. Anne: Any long format narration, but especially books. Pilar: Yes. Anne: Yes. Pilar: Especially books. Anne: So much work. Pilar: It's a lot. It's a lot. So I don't -- Anne: And the money that you're making from it, I don't, for me, it just, it was like, gosh, it's so much work for not a lot of money. So -- Pilar: I totally agree. I totally agree. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So I did a couple. I didn't do that many. I did a couple and then I was like, oh, this is just so much work. I started off, I had a booth in my kitchen, outside of my kitchen. It was in the living room and I, a friend of mine helped me, you know, construct it. It was really great. And then I discovered that every 10 minutes I had to stop because the stupid sound of the refrigerator would, would come into the recording. Anne: Yes. Pilar: Oh my gosh, you have no idea how terrible that was. So I moved it into the, a closet, which I actually had a really good, very, very narrow but long closet. So I, after a couple of iterations that became my studio, but I still wasn't making a lot of money. So I decided, you know what? I'm going to try, I'm going to send out feelers for like a nine to five job or a part-time job in radio. Anne: I was just gonna ask you that because there's so many people when they're trying to get into voiceover, and they want to go full time. And even when I started full-time, I had to have a part-time job so that I felt like I could contribute to paying the bills in terms of the household, for sure. So I was wondering through all those years, when you were like, kind of scraping by, did you have a second job doing something different like, I don't know, waitress, bartender, corporate? Pilar: I always had an administrative job going, like I was an administrative assistant -- Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: -- to a friend of mine and she was great, 'cause I could always go and come back. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Pilar: She was really understanding. Anne: You could do your auditions. Pilar: Yes. So, you know, sometimes I would work for her full-time. Sometimes I would work part-time. Anne: Yup. Pilar: So it was really great to be able to go back and forth in that. But yeah, I always had a second job, and then I realized, you know, what, if I could have a second job doing something like radio? So I went, I went down the list of all the radio stations in Miami -- again, and now I'm realizing it as, as we're having this conversation. I did actually, I marketed myself out to them. Anne: There you go. Did you manifest? Did you manifest your radio job? Pilar: This, I started, I started manifesting. Yes. I went back to that. Yes, ma'am. I started seeing myself in front of a, in front of a microphone. Absolutely. And I didn't get one bite. Okay? Indeed.com, I papered my resume. And I spent a year and a half looking for this, but I set an intention, I set an intention. I said, I'm going to get a radio job. And the very last place that I looked at was, and I was talking to my friend who I had been her administrative assistant. We became each other's accountability buddies. She said, well, um, why don't you call up WLRN? WLRN is the NPR satellite in Miami. And I had looked at their website, and it said that there was a three to five-year position. And I was like -- three to five years experience needed. And I thought, I don't have three to five years. And she said, just write them. Just say, you're willing to work for them. You know, just say, you know, and I was like, you know what? Why not? Anne: I'm eager to learn. Pilar: Exactly. That's what exactly -- I'm eager to learn. I'd sent out so many resumes, Anne, and to so many different -- all of the companies in Miami. So I'm talking to her, and this is, this is the great part. This is like the manifesting part because I really, really was manifesting this heavily. I send it out while I'm talking to my friend on the phone. I knew how to do this by heart by now. I'd composed a letter. I sent my resume. I sent a couple of samples. Not 20 minutes later, I get a call from the guy -- Anne: Wow. Pilar: -- saying, do you want to meet? And I was like, sure, I'd love to. So I went and I met with him a couple of times, and they started me off working for them. So this was a, it was a part-time job because they were affiliated with a school. And so they said, well, you know, you -- we'll, we'll get you on the air, and then you'll do some spots for us. I was like, okay, great. So before a month was out, I was on the air, and I was doing spots for them, underwriting spots. They don't call them commercials because it's, you know, it's, it's, you know -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- it's not-for-profit. Anne: So it wasn't a show? You just started doing spots for them. Pilar: I started doing spots for them, but then they put me on the air from 10 to 2. Anne: Okay. PIlar: And then, so what I would do was that on my breaks, because I was hired from, you know, I would get there, like, let's say 9, 9:30, and then I would leave after my spot. So between breaks, when the shows were on, I would go into the other room and do the spots. Anne: Sure. Pilar: And then they started giving spots and then they started giving me more spots. And then I, I managed to work out a deal with them through the union and so that I would do their -- and I would produce their spots. So I would put music and sound effects under for their TV arm of the company. Anne: Oh, wait. So remember when I said quadruple threat? So now we've got yet another. Now she's producing spots as well! Pilar: Well, again, Anne. Anne: Yup. Pilar: I have no idea what I'm doing, right? Anne: Yup. Pilar: Because I, you know, I would just play record. Anne: Sure, sure. Pilar: So now I have to put, so I now have to do tracks, and I had to learn a whole set of other skills -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- because I didn't know, I didn't know how to do a console, how to handle a console and do three things at once. So now I'm, I'm producing spots, and then they give me more, and then they give me more and I'm like, wow, okay, I'm getting -- it's almost like the 10,000 hours -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- in, you know, in Outliers. It's like, I'm getting all this training. Anne: I think, I think that's great. And I love the 10,000 hours thing from Malcolm. And I am a total proponent of you need 10,000 hours. And whether you realize it or not, you had put your 10,000 hours in many aspects of your career. And again, if I can recap, you manifested, you wanted to be in radio. It didn't happen overnight. And that's one thing I want to kinda just touch back upon. Because a lot of times I think we're impatient with ourselves. And I think for me, going by my gut, this is what I always say, going by my gut, manifestation, doesn't always happen overnight. And I think that it leads you to the right steps to get to the right place so that you can fulfill that dream or that goal. And so, even though it didn't happen overnight, it did happen because you manifested it. You wanted it, you took the steps that were required to make it happen. And it happened. So BOSSes out there, if you're listening, we can all be learning about this. We can all give ourselves some grace, be patient, but believe in the manifestation and take those steps that it takes to cultivate and achieve that dream. So, sorry, just had a break in there with the educational moment. Pilar: And it's so important what you just said, Anne, because we're thinking that when we call it into being, let's say we're manifesting it, that it's going to happen on our timeline. Anne: Exactly. Pilar: Who died and made you God? Right? Who said that you would, that you would be doing this? Or if I, in my case that, because I said, I want to work in radio that next month, the following month -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- I was going to be working radio? No. Anne: Right, right. Pilar: No, no, no, no, no. That's not the way it happens. Like there's steps. Anne: It evolves. Pilar: And if you cut those steps, and you, and you jump, you're going to be disappointed or you're going to do it the wrong way. There's a reason that the things come into your life when they come into your life. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: And it's because it's when you're ready to receive them, then you can go, oh, because at that moment, when I sent out that resume, I was ready. I might not have been ready if I had sent it out earlier. It may not have hit in the right way. Anne: Sure. Pilar: Later I talked to my boss at WLRN, and he said, you know, I get resumes all the time. It's just that when I read yours, it really fit because you're, you're a Latina. So you could say all these complicated words that would come out in Spanish and French because I also speak French. So, you know, sometimes these things would -- Anne: And yet another threat. I love it. Pilar: But you know, like sometimes there would be these, these weird companies, these weird -- not weird. They're not weird, but they're just French companies. So with the accent -- Anne: Sure, sure. Pilar: -- it would just come out better. And I will say one thing that was really fun when I was working in radio was that I got to say my name the way I would say -- 'cause like, if I say my name like, you know -- my, my name is Pilar Uribe. And that's how I, that's how I slate, Pilar Uribe. But once in a while I get to slate my name the way I usually, I would say it on the radio -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- which was "mi nombre es Pilar Uribe. Hola, Pilar Uribe" Anne: Ooh. Pilar: So it's like, it's so much fun to actually say my name. 'Cause I don't, I don't get to do that very often. Anne: Sure, sure. Pilar: You know? So we was fun to be able to use the bilingual aspect of it all. I mean, I was literally daily using it in the studio because I had to pronounce words in a certain way or -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- you know, so that was really fun to -- Anne: So now, how long was your radio career with WLRN? Pilar: It was two and a half years. Anne: Okay. Pilar: And one day my, my landlady writes me an email and says, I'm selling the apartment. I'd spent the entire, my 16 years in, in Miami in the same apartment. I had a great land lady, always had really good luck with that. And I was, I panicked. I was like, oh my gosh, what do I do? And I thought, this is the moment. This is the time -- Anne: For change. Pilar: -- I had been talking about moving. And this is the moment to go and move. And this is the moment for a shift. I literally felt the shift. I was terrified. And I will say that one of the things about doing something new is that there's always the element of fear. Always. Anne: Oh yes. Yes, yes. Pilar: So to sit there and you know, when people say, oh yeah, I went ahead and did this. And you know, you hear these marketing gurus. I, I listen to them on Clubhouse, and you know, they -- do this and I got this and they did this. And it's like, all of that happens with fear. It's just that the courage to be able to change -- Anne: To move through it. Pilar: -- and to move through it is -- Anne: To work through it. Pilar: -- is higher -- Anne: Doesn't mean that you're not scared. Pilar: -- than fear. Exactly. Anne: But you're moving through, and you know what's so interesting about the move? I've got two stories about moving and change. I remember when I personally, I felt like I needed the change. And one was when my husband and I were in New Jersey, and I said, I'm done. I, I love New Jersey. It's served me well, but I'm done. And I would love to go live in California. Jerry, why don't you see if you can get a transfer? And lo and behold, he did. And then I said to him, oh, by the way, Jerry, I need you to be able to make one and a half times what you're making now, because, because I want to quit my job and go full-time into VO. And guess what? It happened. However, nine months after that, he then got laid off from his job. But we stayed. We stayed, you know, we moved to California, we stayed in California, and we worked through it. Everybody said, when are you coming back? I'm like, I'm not coming back. So I worked through the first few years of being full-time voiceover. And it was just one of those things. I had my goals in mind and just set my brain to it. And somehow I've arrived here, thankfully gratefully. But the second time I said, I need a change, we had been in Irvine for 12 years. And I said, I'm done. Thank you, Irvine. It's been wonderful. We need to move, Jerry. And it was one of those things where I didn't even -- he was on a business trip and I said, Jerry, I need to go somewhere else. I know I've got a good 10 years left before -- 10, 15 years before if I, if I retire at all and I need to do it in a new place. And so basically I just said, I want to move. But putting that move into place, we literally got in like maybe a week before lockdown to our new house. Pilar: Wow. Anne: So we had to, like, we had to sell the house. I had to stage the house. We bought a new house. The new house wasn't ready. I had -- we had to move someplace in the interim with the cats, with you, sell the furniture, everything, put stuff in storage. And it was so much work, but we got through it, and now we're in a new place, but it was all from a need or a feeling in me that I needed to shift. I need, I couldn't be stagnant. I needed to grow and change. And I followed it, and it was tough, but I'll tell you what. We're so grateful. And I totally agree with you in terms of like, these things are put in place for movement and change to help people grow and flourish, if you take it in that vein. Pilar: That's so powerful, that story, Anne. It's like listening to your insides instead of worrying about what the outside is saying or -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- you know, because you're always going to get pushback. Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: Because there's all kinds of things that, that will, uh, not necessarily bar you, but will make you take stock and think -- Anne: Oh yeah. Pilar: -- is this the right decision? Anne: Oh yeah. And I'll tell you if I may interrupt for just one second, I'm so sorry -- Pilar: Yeah, yeah, go for it. Anne: -- but I need to tell you that, 'cause you just brought to my mind was the biggest thing was this second time is now that I was an entrepreneur, right, with my own business, you realize that banks don't want to give you loans or approve mortgages when you are self-employed. And so that was huge. I mean, we had to bend over backward to prove that I had money coming in and that, that was, that was a huge thing. And I have to say that I'm grateful and thankful that my voiceover business flourished as it did so that, that wasn't -- I mean, it became a thing where we were worried up to the very last minute that they were not going to approve the mortgage because I had to show all sorts of records of income. And it just, it's crazy when you work for yourself. But thank gosh, my husband, he is able to prove half of it because he worked for an employer, but for me, they were like, no, you need to prove this, this, and this. And so that became a big point. So BOSSes out there working for yourself, know that these things exist. Pilar: And believing in it, I think that that's really important. What you just described is like, despite the no's being told -- Anne: Yes. Pilar: -- you went ahead anyway. Anne: And did everything I had to do, right -- Pilar: Exactly. Anne: -- to prove and to get through it. So, absolutely. Pilar: Yeah. Um, you know, I think there's something that's so important in this business to recognize is the amount of no's that we get. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And when I think about the radio -- Anne: So many. Pilar: -- I mean, I got so many no's, and I got so many, like silences, because that's the other thing about this business. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: You don't necessarily get told you don't get the part, or you don't get the gig. You're just, nothing happens. So, you know, that it went to somebody else. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Pilar: And so, and it's, it's about physically and emotionally and being able to say, okay, all right. That's, that's, you know, and just moving on with it -- Anne: And moving on. Pilar: -- instead of dwelling in it. Anne: And again -- Pilar: Right? Anne: -- can I bring another, can I bring another marketing parallel into this? Pilar: Go for it. Love it. Love it. Anne: So not only auditioning and understanding that if you audition, maybe it's not the right time, right, for the person that is casting that audition. Maybe it's just, it wasn't the right fit for the job at that right time. But also when you're marketing and you're sending out those emails, or you're making those cold calls, all the time, there are no's. Right? And, and it's just not the right time. And so keep in mind that even when you're marketing, that is absolutely a huge consideration, that it's not the right time. They're not looking at that time to buy or to purchase, or they don't need a voice at that time. And the same thing applies to your marketing. So I know so many people that get so defeated about their marketing and like, why isn't it working, and how can I get the next gig? And it's one of those, it's a huge timing issue. And I know when I talk to my BOSS Blast clients, that that is a thing. You know, we get so many emails in our inbox every day. And like, I subscribe to old Navy, right? So old Navy three, four, or five times a week is sending me their latest sale. But I don't click on that email until I need something. And so the same thing goes for if you're trying to market your voiceover business, and that could be a whole other episode, Pilar, with that. Pilar: I think it is. I think it is because I have a story, which I'm not going to include -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- but I have a great story about that. And that's, that's really important. Yeah. Anne: So I love, love, love all the parallels that we are making through your story. So thank you, Pilar, for providing that story. So now I'm going to assume that that next move, is that coming back to New York? Pilar: No. It's going to -- Anne: Or going to all -- LA. Pilar: -- Los Angeles, yes. Anne: So we're going to be hitting the next episode with when you now, I guess, leave Miami and make your trek towards LA. So BOSSes, I can't wait for this next episode. Pilar, thank you so much again for this inspiring, motivating story. I'm just so glad that we're doing this. Pilar: I, I get such a kick out of talking with you, Anne. I learn so much with you, so thank you. Anne: Well, I love drawing the parallels, so. Pilar: I love it. I love it. You're good at it. Anne: So I'd like to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect just like Pilar and I are connecting like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week and can't wait to see you next week. See ya. Bye! Pilar: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Bosses, in 2022 we are failing fast + furiously. Who's in? In this Bonus Modern Mindset Episode, Anne is joined by special guest Erikka J. They discuss blending tech + creative passions, pursuing multiple careers simultaneously, and most importantly, why it is oh so important to fail so that you can succeed! Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the Modern Mindset series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to bring you special guest Erikka J. Erikka is a multi-talented singer, songwriter, and award-winning voice actor. She's voiced for brands such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, IBM, Discover and -- keep going -- Black Lives Matter and many, many more. As a natural born hustler, I love that, she is also a tech girl, just like me, a project and product management professional with 15 years' experience in multiple sectors, including government, e-commerce, software development, and automotive. Erikka J, it is a pleasure to have you, and thank you so much for joining me today. Erikka: Likewise, thank you, Anne, for having me and, uh, hey to the BOSSes out there. Anne: Yeah, I love it. So I went to your website, which by the way is beautifully branded. So guys, BOSSes out there, you want to have a look at something that's really beautifully branded, I love the website. I was drawn to the music tab there. So I want to say that I love your concept of delivering meaningful, honest, and relatable lyrics, which you call jewels, right, to your fans. Erikka: Yes. Anne: I imagine that this also applies to your philosophy in, in your VO being real and meaningful and honest, and I'm sure that that contributes in a multitude of ways to your success. But let's talk -- we'll do, we'll talk about that in a minute -- but let's talk about how did your singing career help prepare you for your careers thereafter in business as well as voiceover? Erikka: Oh man, I got, uh, I almost want to say I got lucky, but I worked for it too. Um, so I, um, you know, went to college, and even though I was singer and doing all of that, and people were, you know, telling me I should pursue that, I went the whole corporate route. But music chased me; it wouldn't let me stay away from it. So I got the business education from getting my MBA and from working in state government, federal government, and now a corporate job in automotive. But in music, I learned how to record myself out of necessity. So I mean, you know, I didn't have the big label behind me, but I had some ideas and I had to record my own songs that I've written. So started on audacity, started on a Scarlet -- Anne: Wow, all right. Erikka: Scarlet bundle, like with that mic, like that's where I started, in the closet. Yeah, recording myself in music, I learned the tech side of it and how to listen and get very detailed with my ear. And I eventually, I made my way over to voiceover and those skills came in really handy. Anne: Wow. Well, I have to say as a young artist back then, that's an ambitious goal, right, to be a singer. Talk to me a little bit about -- I know you said you didn't have a big label, but it's not like you didn't try to pursue a career path that way I would imagine. Erikka: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I did the indie route. Anne: Okay. Erikka: So I mean, at that time, you know, early 2010s around ish -- Anne: Oh okay, gotcha. Erikka: -- so Internet was around and all the distributions. I could put myself on iTunes and all the platforms. So yeah, I never really did pursue the label route. I wanted to sort of be the captain of my own destiny, you know? Anne: Gotcha. Erikka: Yeah. And I had friends that were engineers, so they kind of helped teach me stuff and get me set up with templates. So, um, I did pursue it on my own, but I didn't pursue the getting signed sort of traditional route. Anne: Um, now is that something that you're still doing, or you're still considering, or trying to pursue all different routes? Erikka: I would say I'm probably like on hiatus. Anne: Gotcha. Erikka: Music broke my heart a few times. I love it, definitely my first love. But boy, when I found voiceover and was able to pull all these different things that I love into one big bucket, like I've really just fell hard. Anne: So what was it that made you go into business? I mean, you have your MBA. So when you're the starving artist, right, everybody says go to college. And that was, that was my mother, go to college and get a real job. But interestingly enough, what made you pursue your master's in business? Erikka: Yeah, so I kind of always say I lived my life in reverse almost, like in my 20's, I was super serious and straight and you know, yeah, singing's great. But I have to go get a real job. Anne: Right, right. Erikka: I went to college and you know, and it worked out well for me, but again, music just kept pulling me back, the creative that, you know, muscle, it just doesn't, it doesn't die. Anne: Oh, I agree. Erikka: It won't let you move away from it. So I just decided to do both -- Anne: Love it. Erikka: -- and it was crazy. It still is crazy. And I preach that all the time. Like I still have a full-time corporate job at this moment in tech and full-time voiceover, full-time I do both. Anne: Girl after my own heart. I tell ya, it's something special. Right? You have the tech gene and the creative gene. And it's so interesting to have both. It sounds like you love both. And you're passionate about both. Erikka: I do, I do. I mean, and how I got to voiceover was I was doing gigs on the weekend with a corporate band. So my kids were young at the time, and I was writing my own music and doing all that, my own shows, and working for the federal government, for Department of Defense at the time. Anne: Wow. Erikka: So seven days a week, I'm working every day, a little kids, single mom too. Anne: Wow. Erikka: So I was away a lot and you know, I've made time for them, but I was trying to find ways to spend more time with them. And somebody had mentioned voiceover and I'm like, what's that? Like, I didn't even know that people get paid for the stuff I hear on TV every day. And then I just, you know, did the Google hustle, man, you know, and figured it out online, and here we are five and a half years later. It's going pretty well. Anne: Wow. And here you are. That's amazing. Let's talk a little bit about tech -- Erikka: Yes. Anne: -- especially about, I guess, agile practices, which I believe you specialize in, correct? Erikka: Yeah. Yeah. Anne: So I know that I've done an e-learning module on agile practices. I don't know if I understood them completely, but tell me a little bit about first of all, what are agile practices and what can we learn from them in our voiceover career? How do we relate those? Erikka: Yeah, yeah. So agile is like a mindset. It's an approach to software development is how it was born. And I believe it's actually the 20-year anniversary this year or last year it was. It was in 2001 that I think maybe like 17 different software developers got together. Waterfall was sort of their prevailing software development method, which to shorten it is basically just what I used to do, where you write a requirements document. I would write documents that are 60 pages long. You turn that over to your software engineers. You know, we kind of discuss it, go back and forth, make sure everybody understands, and you could be building something for months and then deliver it. So these guys got together and came up with this manifesto of 12 different elements that really focused on the customer, on delivering value over documentation, on making sure that it was an iterative process. Anne: Sure. Erikka: Because what can happen is if you're developing something, and you take six months to get it out, what I wanted six months ago is no longer a value to me. Anne: Yeah. Well, there's nothing worse than having a piece of software, and there's a bug in it. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And then you have to wait like forever to get that resolved. Right? I assume that that's part of where this all came from. Erikka: Yeah. Not even a bug. It could mean that they were coding it to spec, but the spec is now changed. Um, you've gotten all the way down the road. Sometimes, you know, these are 18 months projects. Anne: Right, right. Erikka: And you've wasted money, time and value now. So this agile approach, and what I wanted to talk about today is one of the, it's not really one of the values that's in the manifesto, but one of the guiding principles is to fail fast and often. The goal is to be iterative and not let that fear of failure keep you from iterating and trying new things and being creative, and then using that process of failure to inspect and adapt. Go back and look at how you failed, what you could do better next time and look at it as a true learning process and a path to success. Anne: Wow. Well, that's it. We can go home now because that was, that was such a beauty. That was so valuable, what you just said in that short amount of time. I completely agree. I mean, there's so much learning to be had from failing. Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. There's such a stigma and there's such shame with failure, but you can take that failure, and nobody learns from winning, right? Like -- Anne: True. Erikka: -- you learn from, from when you lose. Anne: Isn't that that's so true. And I think that just happens all the time, really, in an industry where we audition to win jobs -- Erikka: Yes, yes. Anne: -- and we are constantly facing rejection or sometimes we hear nothing at all. So we don't know why we failed or how we failed. Erikka: Oh man. Yeah. As creators, as voiceover talent, as entrepreneurs in general, like there's so much wider, and agile was born from software development, but it really can be applied to so many different areas of life, of business, and just learning how to take that failure and be resilient and, you know, exercise your grit. I just saw the Ted Talk on Angela Duckworth. I don't know if you've heard of her, and she referenced the growth mindset, and you know, how grit is really that willingness to fail and to be wrong so that we can learn from it. And man, if we don't face it every day with auditions -- Anne: Right, that's just the first step. Erikka: -- I don't know what is. Anne: And I love how you expanded it out to be not just the performance aspect of our industry, but also just the entrepreneur mindset. I mean, yeah. I can't tell you after so many years of being in this industry and how many times I've failed, and I liked the whole iterative process of fail fast -- Erikka: Yeah. Anne: -- because I've always thought of it as well. I just kind of changed direction. Right? I never in my brain, I don't say I've failed. I say, well, I need to just change direction. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: And so that way I wouldn't have that stigma that you're talking about of shame and like, oh my God, I failed. I always said, well, I don't think of it as failure. I think of it as just changing direction, which actually seems to follow the agile mindset as well. Erikka: Absolutely it does. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. So how have you learned from that in your voiceover career? Because now how long have you been doing voiceover? Erikka: Yeah, voiceover. I started in September of 2016. Anne: Okay, yup. Erikka: So this will be my sixth year coming up. How have I learned? My goodness. So even when I was doing music, when I was singing and doing all of that, I've did approach it as a business. So I've actually had my LLC since 2015. Anne: Okay. Erikka: So I always approach that as investing in myself and looking for an ROI and trying to make the business money that I was making fund the expenses that I had for the business. It wasn't like that for a long time. I was putting in personal money. Anne: Right? Ugh. Erikka: I had business debts and honestly just in the past year, I'm going to be really vulnerable and transparent right now, I paid off $50,000 of business debt. That was a failure. Anne: But that means so much to me that you were vulnerable like that. And you were able to say that because that's going to really help so many BOSSes out there that look, I remember, and my vulnerability is my first year full-time in voiceover, I made like $12,000 for the year. Erikka: Same, same. Anne: Like it was not -- it was just -- people are like, oh my God, I'm making six figures or whatever. No, my first year, and I worked my tush off that first year. Erikka: Yes. Anne: I've known to be a workhorse myself. I feel like we're soul sisters in that area. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: And questioning in the beginning, like, oh my gosh, am I going in the right direction? I remember sobbing one day; everything just came down on me. And I'm like, I don't even know if this is where I should be. Yeah. And I had given up. Now see, for me, I had given up my career in tech. I was teacher tech. So it was kind of the same thing, kind of that technology and creative in the same area. I finally said to my husband, well, let's move to California, and I'm going to quit my cushy corporate educational, secure tech job and just going to do full-time voiceover. And that was just a leap of faith. I mean, thankfully I had put into motion, we had a plan. I mean, I had that financial cushion that allows you to do it, but I did it in 2008, which was the worst year to like -- Erikka: Oh God, yeah, '08. Anne: -- if you're in tech, you know that if you are out of tech for a couple of months, that's it, you're old, you're dead wood. That's like -- Erikka: Yeah, yeah. Anne: You've lost any kind of -- Erikka: You will not get up to speed. Anne: No. I said, oh God, I just need to rest. Give me like three months. I gave it three months, and then nobody would talk to me. It was 2008. And it was like, wow, you cannot stop in tech because otherwise you just, oh, you're not up to speed. And you know, I couldn't even get interviews. And I was like, okay. So I got to make this voiceover thing work and worked my butt off. And I liked that you said it's years. It's not like an overnight, like getting your ROI is just, you have to have, I think the wherewithal and the grit to kind of just survive that and just keep trying things, failing fast, right. And trying something else. Erikka: And that was the failure is that, you know, I, I knew that I was going to need, you know, different classes to take. And you know, a lot of that was music as well. Like, you know, the, the video that you and I were chatting about before, that costs money. Anne: Yes. Beautiful video. Erikka: You know? Thank you. Thank you. Anne: Yeah. BOSSes, just go to Erikka's page. She's got some really awesome videos, and you have a beautiful voice. So. Erikka: Thank you. Thank you. I mean, quality was really important to me. So, you know, I mean, you'll see it before I paid for it. Anne: So I told my husband, come over here and look at, look how beautifully shot this video is, let alone how awesome the whole performance and the storyline. And I feel like when I watched you singing, like I can see so many parallels between singing, performing, and also voiceover. Because again, if you're all about being meaningful and relatable, and I think authentic, I could see that in the video, in your performance. And I'm like, wow, you translate that into a voiceover performance. And bam, like, that's the magic. That's the magic. Erikka: That was for me because, you know, aspect of music that I always loved the most was that I was able to channel my emotions, not just through the words, but like how, the way that I was singing. And I had no clue how helpful that was, that I had already honed that skill, and that, that was a strength of mine to bring that to voiceover gave me a leg up, you know? Anne: Oh my goodness, yeah. Erikka: Oh my goodness. It was great. I mean, not just the failures in music, I wanted to just, 'cause we're talking about failure too, in voiceover, you mentioned that you had left tech and kind of given up and quit on it. And I did just about walk away from voiceover. Same thing. I was, you know, four years in. I think the best, the most I had made was like $25,000 in a year. And I'm like, you know, I can't keep doing this and I have to shout out Mr. Zellman my guy, my man Cliff -- Anne: Oh yeah.   Erikka: Because -- Anne: Who doesn't love Cliff Zellman? Erikka: I love him so much. Any voiceover that somebody got from me after August of 2019 is because of Cliff, because I was going to quit. Anne: Yeah. You want to talk about passion in what somebody does? Cliff is so passionate. Honestly, he's so passionate at what he does and he's so genuine and so authentic, wonderful, wonderful person to work with, if you ever get the chance, highly recommended. Yeah. And I can see him. He's like, he almost could be a motivational coach. Erikka: Right? Anne: Um, you know, because he is that passionate. Now you work, full-time, you say, at your corporate job and you're doing voiceover as well, and you have a family. So what's the fail first kind of -- does that translate into every aspect of your life as well? Erikka: Four letter word yes. Anne: Yup. Erikka: So all of this really kind of kicked up for me when I started working full-time from home with the pandemic. So that's where I was able to, you know, really dive in and give all my other time to voiceover and still be able to maintain both. 'Cause I was home all the time. The failure, there was boy, and I'm still learning about the self-care aspect, but I kind of really put my family on the back burner for awhile. In my relationship with my boyfriend, we had to really work through that. I'm a hard working woman, and he hadn't been with a woman that was as ambitious as I was before. And I kind of dove in probably a little too hard where I had to learn that you have to live life to be able to give good voiceover. Anne: Oh yeah. Right? Erikka: It can't all be the work. Anne: You've got to rebuild that creative -- Erikka: Yeah. Anne: -- yeah, spark I think. And if you want -- Erikka: You've got to have experiences. Anne: Yeah. You're talking to a workaholic, I get it. I totally get it. And you're right. There's always that balance. And I think I need to sit back and continually remind myself of that balance as well, because I'm like, look, I just want to get to this place. I might be retiring in 15 years. And so I don't want to have to worry about how am I going to pay the mortgage or I want to go travel. And so I'm always working towards something, and I think that a modern mindset of fail fast. I love that. You just twisted that for me, fail fast. Give me an example of the fail fast that worked in your favor because rather than well, let's just, I completely give up voiceover. No, let's just change direction. Erikka: I could talk a little bit -- I saw that P-to-Ps was something that you guys recently talked about as well. So my approach and my philosophy, whenever I talk to people about those, is I feel like they are a lead source, just like people go to Google to go look, they go to those sites, and they're essentially search engines. LinkedIn is a search engine. So there are some that maybe work better than others and some that maybe don't work as well. My approach was to track my ROI as I went, if I was to pay for more, a higher level tier. So if I pay for one, and you know, I'm waiting and I'll see if I need to cancel. If I need to read the next year, rather than sort of throwing all your eggs in one basket and saying, I'm just going to do stuff for my agents, trying different avenues as lead generators for work. Anne: Got it. Erikka: And I keep a close eye on that. Anne: And I think it's all about lead generation, isn't it really, to be successful in this voiceover industry? I mean, because the entrepreneurial, like the fear factor is that we don't necessarily know what work is coming in every single day. Erikka: Yeah. Anne: So being able to secure maybe a steady flow of possibilities, right, and us acting on those possibilities, like the auditions or even just having people find us, that is, I think the hardest part about being a voiceover actor and making that a full-time gig is that you don't know where that next paycheck is coming from. You don't know where the next client is coming from, and having a lead generation software, or you consider your P-to-P lead generation software. Erikka: Exactly. Anne: And even your website, like I said, again, I'm going to go back to your website, because I'm worked in tech and I worked on websites back in the day. I would never do it today. I hire people, but knowing a good website when you get to it and establishing know, like, and trust. People hire people they know, like, and trust. Your website is your online personification of your storefront. And that storefront, if presented correctly, can be an immediate, like I immediately said, yes, that girl is who I want to hire. And it was a visual -- I didn't even listen to anything yet. I went to your website and I said, there she is. It's just stunning. It's the attitude, the confidence, the, you know, and now everybody should be rushing over to your website. But it's so true. It's just so well done. I don't know if you had a website before, and for me there's versions of my website that were failure, you know, fail fast and let's switch it up. Let's see what's working. That's another thing that people come in. It is a first impression. And if that first impression is a fail, switch it up, switch it up. Erikka: You're done. Anne: You're done. Switch it up. Switch it up, you're done. Erikka: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Move on to the next. Anne: Yeah. It honestly has such an effect on first impression. Yeah. She looks like someone I could absolutely trust, and she's just got the goods. Like I want to work with her. Erikka: And yeah, another piece of that is it's the fail fast and often. So when you bring up my website, and it's so funny, I appreciate the compliments. I did build that site myself on Squarespace. Anne: Damn. Erikka: Um, and I'm in the process of having it professionally redone because you know, like you said, I just, I'm like, I'm good, you know, the whole back end piece, you know, to make it really fast. That's not my area of genius. So I'm paying people for that, but it still works. Anne: Absolutely. It still works with that first impression. Right? It's just like just bam, that first page. And that made me want to go investigate more. Erikka: Yeah, yeah. And what I've done to kind of figure out what works is playing with the SEO in there, which I know you love to talk about and so do I, because I love passive ways of generating leads. I want to be in the booth. I don't want to go chase clients. Anne: Isn't that the truth? Like it just saves so much time. I'd rather have someone find me first, that whole SEO thing, especially if it's organic, right? That's all fail fast. Erikka: Absolutely. Anne: And keep adjusting and keep evolving. And it's not hard if you're doing organic SEO. And, and I don't know if I would pay people to do SEO other than having somebody maybe writing press releases and you know, doing that kind of thing. That is something again that can really affect your success in the business. And, you know, success begets success. I keep saying that lately. And I think that it just becomes this wonderful ball of energy -- Erikka: Yeah, absolutely. Anne: -- which when it happens, if you do fail, I always think it's failure on a smaller level. Maybe it's not huge, huge fail when you work with fail fast. I think they're tiny failures, and they're always something that you feel that you can overcome. And I think the confidence of that is so much better than, oh my God, I have failed in a huge way. Let's just P-to-P's just don't work. Let's give them up or I can't get any work. Let's give up voiceover, that's a big fail. You don't want the big fails. You want the little fails that you still have the confidence that, you know what, maybe if this doesn't work, I'll just try this next. And that way it keeps the momentum going. Erikka: And that is the exact rationale behind agile is that it's not saying, go ahead and do the big failures. It's saying, if you, if you are more iterative in your approach as to how you're developing or how you're managing your business, or how you're approaching your auditions, then when you have those failures, they're smaller and you can continue them and recover from them faster and find the success. So yeah, you got it, Anne, you know agile. Anne: I love that. Look at that, so now I know agile. Well, how cool is that? So, and then if we apply this to our businesses, and here's where the creative, because I like having the 50-50 brain, right? Because the tech in me says, let's solve a problem. If it's not this it's this, or let's try this. This could be the other solution. And that's where I think that left brain, right brain thing helps because it does help you fail in smaller ways. And sometimes when I work with people who are completely creative or just come from a creative background, it becomes an all or nothing, almost dramatic sort of failure or success. I think that the small fails is where it's helped me in just having a little bit of that tech brain. And that's why I like the entrepreneurship of the industry, because -- so you've got the, kind of the best of both worlds, right? You've always been an entrepreneur, but now you're also working corporate. So there's a dependability factor there for you, right? You go to work every day, you know what to expect. Hopefully you're getting a paycheck every other week or whatever that is. Right? And that gives you the confidence to really take risks in an entrepreneurial endeavor because you've got a little bit of that cushion. Erikka: Exactly. Yep. And that was the goal. And that's what I tell people is there's this stigma of you have to be either/or. You have to either be an entrepreneur or you're not all in if you're still in corporate. And that is absolutely not true. For me, my job is a source of capital. As I am building my business up, I've crossed the, the goal threshold that I've wanted to get to. And now it's a matter of, you know, when is it gonna make sense for me to just focus on the one, but for now it's working. So why not take that money and invest it in your business? If you can manage both, it is okay to have more than one dream. Anne: I completely agree. And that's kind of why, as an entrepreneur, I've divvied up my own business, my entrepreneurial endeavors into multiple segments. It's not just voiceover for me, because again, that is the most unpredictable source of income because sometimes you just don't know, a job won't come in or you won't get the gig. So building up those other revenue streams on the side, whether you're doing it as an entrepreneurship or it's a corporate or a part-time job. I mean, when I went full-time, I did have a part-time job. I was an office assistant, and that gave me the money that helped pay the bills. And so I feel like that is all part of that mindset, that modern mindset of failure that is very similar to agile, where you make the plan to have the finances come in, to give you the confidence, to take the risks in building your entrepreneurial business. And then that will take off like a snowball. Erikka: There are four like core principles of agile. And one of them is responding to change over following a plan. It's not saying that following a plan is not important or that it's not valuable, but it's if you have one of the two you're going to prioritize responding to change. And that is exactly what you were talking about. I know people where they've, you know, they were full-time. I don't really love the full-time voiceover thing because I know other people that do full-time jobs and are full-time voiceover, like six figures. So, but I know people that have decided to go back and get a job because they wanted to pay off debt or they wanted to have more capital to invest in their business. There's nothing wrong with that. You can change along with the conditions and then alter your plan to fit what's happening right now. Anne: Yeah. I love that. I love that. And also, if you are just full-time voiceover, things are evolving. Trends are changing, um, technology, you and I know, technology is coming, and it is going to change the industry just as it changes all aspects of every industry, technology. And I, I love the fact that I have a technology background. I feel like you enjoy your corporate job just as much as you enjoy voiceover. Erikka: I do. Anne: Yeah. Okay. Erikka: I work with such smart people and I always tell them, like, you guys are so much smarter than me. And I just learn from them every day. Anne: It is inspiring. Erikka: It's inspiring. Anne: It's inspiring. I'll tell you. I've had some podcast guests on here that are brilliant, and it exhilarates me. And it gives me confidence and motivation to just go further and delve deeper into my own entrepreneurialship and my voiceover career. So it's, it's really awesome. I love that we have this whole modern mindset failure based on technology. What a really refreshing conversation. Erikka: Thank you. Likewise. I've really enjoyed this, Anne. Anne: Yes. Oh gosh, BOSSes. Go check out Erikka's website. Thank you so much, Erikka, for being with us today. It's really been a pleasure. Erikka: Thank you, Anne, for having me. Thank you to all the BOSSes. You guys, keep rocking on. Anne: Yeah, all right. I'm going to give a great, big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can nerd out with your colleagues and friends and also countless wonderful things. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Erikka: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Do you consult your inner child when making career decisions? Maybe you should! Anne & Pilar kick off the Boss Voces series at the beginning. They dive into Pilar's journey from young girl singing + mimicking to finance assistant to Colombian telenovela star… Transcript >> It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. And today I am honored to bring you special guest cohost Pilar Uribe. Pilar is a bilingual voice actor, telenova star, and radio personality. Born and raised in New York city. She broken this show business with roles from Ugly Betty, Poor Pablo, Eternally Manuela, and El Cartel, filmed in Colombia and Miami. She recorded and produced for WLRN Miami South Florida, and now lives in LA where she records voiceover for television, radio, and films, and last, but certainly not least, she has booth kitties, which are so very important. Yay! Pilar, it's a pleasure having you here today. Thank you so much for joining me. Pilar: I am so glad to be here, Anne. This is a real treat. Thank you. Anne: So, first of all, the booth kitty, I have to know, booth kitties, booth kitty? Pilar: Booth kitty. Anne: Booth kitty. Pilar: Booth kitty. Yes. His name is Paco, Anne: Paco. Pilar: Well, his full name is Paco Del Barrio. Anne: Oh. Pilar: Paco Del Barrio, yes. Anne: Oh, Paco. Now, is Paco in the studio with you right now? Pilar: No, he's not. I know he's outside, and he's sitting on top of the desk where I edit looking like, like, how dare you close that door? Anne: How dare you not pay attention to me? Pilar: Exactly. I need a window for the door. Anne: As you know, we now both have booth kitties and that is a major plus for, I think, productivity in the booth to have booth kitties. They really help you in your daily -- Pilar: Absolutely. Anne: -- your daily booth recordings. Pilar: Yeah, they're very, yes, they're very, they're very observant, and they're very, how can I say this? Anne: They direct well. Pilar: They teach you, they teach you a lot about you as a voice actor. Anne: I agree. Pilar: We'll get into that. Anne: I agree. I think that could be an episode actually, how our pets help us learn about ourselves. For sure. For sure. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: So you're not even like a triple threat. You're like a quadruple, like, you're like multiple, multiple threats, TV, radio, voiceover. Tell us about how you started in the business? Because I think you've got a wonderful story to tell, and we can all learn a lot about how you evolved into your voiceover career. Pilar: Okay. So how much time do you get? Anne: Well, this first episode is about only 25 minutes. So. Pilar: Okay, I'll be quick. Now, I was born and bred in New York. Both my parents are from Colombia, a little town called Ibagué. And, um, I spoke Spanish until I was five. When I went to grade school, high school, I was in all the plays. I played the angel. I, you know, I did all kinds of things, singing groups. I was in the choir. I was in -- Anne: Me too. Pilar: Yeah. Right. You know, you do it all. Anne: Choir thing and you know, that creative. stuff. Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. I went to a girls school, and so we were in this choir, and I was just in this thing called Triple Trio. And we would go to, we would go to boys schools. We would go to boarding schools and sing there and have crushes on all the boys. Anne: Of course. Pilar: So in college I majored in theater and kept studying voice and did musical theater and just all kinds of things. Anne: But not necessarily voiceover, right? You're thinking -- Pilar: No, no, it was all, it was all musical theater or -- Anne: Musical theater. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Because you sing too. That was the other threat. 'Cause I actually happened upon one of your social media posts the other day. And you were singing. So. Pilar: Yes, I'm really into like the -- so that's the thing. I was kind of born and raised on singing a capella because I would sing with my sister. We had a little duet going, and she would play with the guitar. Sometimes we would play the guitar and sometimes we would just do two voices. So there's this great app called acapella. And I loved just dubbed myself over and over again into like four part harmony. It's so much fun. So in college, I kept singing. I kept with these groups, and I majored in theater, came back to New York. And of course it's a different story now, you know, once you're looking for a job, and I thought, well, okay, I'll, I'll go the corporate route. And I worked for Harper's Bazaar -- Anne: Oh wow. Pilar: for -- yeah. For two and a half years. And I, I totally lived the Devil Wears Prada life. Anne: I was gonna say! Pilar: Oh yeah, all that stuff is true. Anne: In New York too. Pilar: In New York. So I, I was an assistant to an editor, and it was like, oh, what an experience that was. Anne: I can imagine. Pilar: Yes. Yeah. That that's a whole other, that's a whole other story. Then I went to, I moved to Nine West and I started working to helping in design shoes. And all throughout this time, I was taking acting classes because I thought, let me just keep that muscle going. Even though it just, it seemed so far away at the time. And I got laid off. I was the last hired, first fired. There was a whole financial shakeup, and I thought, okay, this is the time to start working on my acting. So I got my headshot and resume together, and I started going out on auditions. And in the meantime I got married. Anne: That's a lot happening. Seems like a lot happening -- Pilar: Yes. And I cleared my throat. Anne: -- short period of time. Pilar: Yes, absolutely. And I cleared my throat because that was a whole experience in itself. So I did theater. I actually, I did "A Chorus Line," and I was probably the only person -- I played Diana Morales, who was the Hispanic character. And she was the one who said, "and I felt nothing, simply nothing." It's such a great song. I love that song. Anne: Lovely. Pilar: I was the only one who could not do a double pirouette, but I got away with it. That's like a requirement for "A Chorus Line," but I could not do a double pirouette to save my life. And if you try doing it, you will fall over. I can tell you right now because I can't, I just, every time I've tried it, I just fall over. I think I did it once in my life, but that's it. So I did a couple of films. I did student films, and I did extra work on "One Life to Live" and "All My Children," and I think there was one called "Passions." Anne: Wow. Pilar: And so that I had so much fun because of course I used to watch those shows, and I used to watch "General Hospital" actually in college. Anne: Oh, of course. Who didn't? Pilar: Remember -- yeah, like, what was it the, uh, the, yeah, there were these scenes, which we can't even say on the air. Anne: I just read something about Luke, that they finally wrote him off. Pilar: Yes, yes, yes! The Luke and Laura scene. Do you remember the Luke and Laura scene? Anne: Yes. Of course, of course. Pilar: Everybody talked about that. Anne: There has to be a moment in time. Like that is, that is ingrained into like the moment in time, uh, television history. And is this what brought you in -- the telenova star? So is that leading us to that place or? Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: Okay. Pilar: Absolutely. It is. I do have a point and I will -- Anne: No, no, I totally get it. Pilar: So I started seeing in New York that, you know, everybody was hustling, like I was, and I was doing extra work on like a film with Michael J. Fox. And I got to touch Arnold Schwarzenegger's jacket, but I was always, you know, background extra. And I thought, wouldn't it be great to work in a job that is kind of a 9 to 5? And I realized television is that. So I had that dream, and that's why I did the extra work, because I, you know, I wanted to see what was going on in those soap operas. So I separated, and I thought, okay, I'm done. I'm going to go to take a little vacation and go to where my extended family lives, in Colombia, in Ibagué. And I go, and I stay with my cousin, and the third night I'm there, we decide to go to a fortune teller, and fortune tellers are big in Colombia. And I've, I just, I love them. Like they're just so much fun. So I go to this fortune teller, and she reads the way I smoke a cigarette of all things. So she's looking at my ashes as I'm smoking a cigarette, she gives me a cigarette, I start smoking it. And she says to me, pack your bags, get ready because you're going to be really famous. Anne: Ooh. Pilar: And I was like, what? Anne: Who doesn't like to hear that? Pilar: I just, I, but I was so, you know, I was so like, you know, I was so -- I was depressed, and I was going through the whole divorce proceedings. I had been working for Morgan Stanley as an assistant. And, you know, that was just the, the world of finance. I didn't even understand -- Anne: Oh, from fashion to finance. Pilar: Yes, exactly. And then she says this to me, and I'm like, oh, maybe I'm going to be a shoe designer. Maybe I'm going to be the next, you know, Manolo Blahnik. And I was like, I can't, I couldn't imagine that one at all. So my cousin and I, we left and we just laughed it off. So I, I, so I stayed a couple of months, a couple of extra months, and I thought, well, maybe I could live in Colombia. So I go back to New York after three months, and I'm, I get my reel together. And I met a party at my parents' house, and there's this really good friend of my mother's. And she says to me, have you read the book, The Celestine Prophecy? It's by James Redfield. And I was like, no. So I read it. And it was a game changer for me. That's all I can say. It, it just completely changed my perspective. And I started thinking, well, maybe I could do this. Maybe I could work in television. And I had a very good friend of mine who was my vocal coach. And he kind of turned into my mentor, and he started telling me, he said, you know what? I want you to start visualizing what it would be like to stand in front of the camera. I want you to see what it would feel like, what the lights would feel like on you, what it would sound like, the people walking around you, how it would taste if like you were drinking something on set, what it would smell like, and what you would hear and what you, you know, all the five senses and really do like a little meditation about it. And I wasn't into meditation back then at all. But The Celestine Prophecy talks about that a little bit, a lot, actually. So I have my reel, I speak to a couple of networks. I write letters and there are two that are interested, and one of them says, okay, great. We are interested. We want to see you. So I packed my bags, and I pay for my ticket, and I go down to Colombia. Anne: So when you say you wrote the networks, okay. So that's a very broad description. So what specifically? 'Cause that's like, you're marketing yourself. I mean, you've been marketing yourself I feel since you were out of the womb. Right? So in reality, you're sending letters and what are you saying in those letters? Hey, I'd like to meet you? I have acting experience? Pilar: Yes. Anne: I'd like to meet you? Pilar: Exactly. Exactly. Actually you just said, I didn't even realize that, you just turned the button on for me. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So I was constantly doing that without even realizing. Anne: Without knowing. Pilar: Yeah, because what I had was, it was just a letter with my real back then. It was VHS. Okay? Anne: Yup. Pilar: So I'm really dating myself, you know, saying I have this experience, I have this training, and I'd really like to do TV. And one of the things I learned a long time ago was you can talk about your strengths. There's no need to lie, but you don't have to say, I don't know how to do this. Anne: Sure. Pilar: You can say, I'm very eager to learn. I'm very eager to get into the business because I realized as I was going down there that yes, I had worked in television as an extra. I had worked in film by then. And so I understood how the camera worked. 'Cause it was -- we worked on an entire summer, over a period of weekends on a feature film. So I knew how it worked, but television is very different from film because it's like, boom, boom, boom, here's this scene, set it up, do the scene. And then you've got a whole bunch of other things to do. So it's a lot busier than film. So I didn't, you know, long shots, you know, close-ups, I was still very much of a newbie. So I basically just concentrated on what my skills were. And these two people, they kind of said, yes, you know, one of them said, there's a possible role for you. And the other one was like, okay, well we'll meet you when you come down here. 'Cause I realized I had to go down there. Like they weren't going to sit there and say -- Anne: Sure. Pilar: -- oh yeah, we'll hire you. So that's why I, I made the decision. I packed my bags, and I go. So I get to Colombia and I'm staying with a friend in Bogotá now. 'Cause now I'm staying in the capital. Before I had been staying in Ibagué where my family is from, and I call up the producer and uh, I make an appointment and I get there and I'm like, I'm, I'm really excited. And I'm like, okay, this is it. This is the start of something big. And I get there and she said, that show has been scrapped. And she points to her, this shelf and all the episodes are there. And she's like, that's been scrapped. They're writing a new show. You're going to have to audition for it. And there's nothing, you know, I don't, I don't have anything for you. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: So I'm like, oh my God. So what do I do? I start envisioning what my life is going to be like. So I start making like a little list. Okay. I need an apartment. I need a job. That's my most important thing. I need an apartment and I need a car. So the first thing I would do is that I would call her on a weekly basis, this producer, and I would say, hi, how are you? How's it going? And she knew immediately why I was calling. She like, I don't have anything for you. So I was like, okay, great. That's done. Then I started going out and looking at apartments in Bogotá of where I wanted to live. I mapped out, I walked around a lot. I, you know, I was, this was basically, I was friends were taking mirrors, going in taxis or I was walking, and I found an area that I wanted to live in. And so everybody posted their little -- they did newspapers, but they, you know, they would post it up on the window, and I would look and I would take a look, and I finally found one and I was like, oh my gosh, this is really great. Did the same thing with cars. I went to the car dealerships. I looked at all these cars, and I found the car that I wanted, and I keep calling this woman. And so once a week, and then one day she called me. Anne: Here's the thing. You must've had a good relationship with her if you actually spoke to her, right? Pilar: Yes, yes. Anne: Usually producers, if they're very busy, that somebody else is either taking their calls for them or screening their calls. So if you were actually able to talk to her, you must have had a great relationship, which I think that's a key factor. Pilar: We developed it. It wasn't something that just started out that way. I mean, I always went through her secretary first. Yeah. So it wasn't like -- this was something that developed on a regular basis, but I wasn't like stalking her -- Anne: Right. Pilar: -- or being obnoxious about it. Anne: Right, right, right. Pilar: I was just saying, hey, I just wanted to see. And because I was, you know, this was the lead -- Anne: Keeping top of mind. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: See how I'm -- we're transforming all of this into the current day marketing. Pilar: I love it. I love it. This is awesome. Anne: This is also staying top of mind with the producer. There you go. Pilar: Exactly. Top of mind. So she calls me and she says, I have something for you. And I'm like, oh my God, this is it. This is it. I get to the studio. It turns out it's one episode of a children's show. Anne: Okay. Pilar: And I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't live on this. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: What are you going to do? And I talked to the director, that director, and I kind of, we just started talking, and you know, she knew who I was and she said, oh no, no, no, no, no. You're still being considered for this new show. Don't worry about it because I actually -- just going back a little bit -- I had auditioned for the new show. So, so, okay. So she called me up and she said, I want you to audition for the show. I auditioned for the show. And then she calls me. She said, I have this for you. And it was a children's show. So I was like, oh no, what am I going to do? And she said, no, no, no, no. You're still -- the director for the children's show said, no, you're still being considered. Because this was much smaller than what it is today. You know, in the very first time I went and I auditioned, it was very different from the way I auditioned in New York. So, you know, in New York you get given sides and now you memorize it, but you, you're allowed to have it in your hand. And back there, you, you know, you definitely had to memorize the whole thing. And I was panicked and this guy helped me and it was great. A couple of other weeks go by. And then they call me in for a second audition and that's with the director. He was very stern. And I was really nervous. A couple of weeks later, she called me, and she said, you got the job. So all this work that I had been doing, I, you know, I'm shortening it. I had been looking for the apartment. I'd been -- Anne: You'd been having a vision and meditating -- Pilar: Exactly. Anne: And manifesting. Pilar: Exactly. So once I had all that ready to go, when the call came, and this is over a period of three months that this happened, I was like, okay, great. Now it's time. I can get the car, and I can get the apartment. I can rent the apartment out because now I, now I have somewhere to go because I have a job. Anne: Sure. Pilar: And so actually it was really funny. The head of the network called me, and I, I -- it's kind of amazing that I think about this now -- he called me and he said, I, I, I have to tell you that -- and he kind of called me apologetically. And he said, you're going to be really -- this character, you're gonna be really ugly, and you're going to be really nasty. Anne: All right. Pilar: So I was like, please, you know bring it on. Right? So we start filming, and it's a whole new experience. So I have to start from the beginning again, and I'm learning camera angles, and I'm learning how the business works. And the show comes out and literally, Anne, overnight -- the show comes out like let's say on a Thursday. And the last show that what they did is that they dovetailed the old show, which was one of the most well-known shows in the history of Colombian television. It was called "Café -- Café con Aroma de Mujer." they're redoing it now. And so then ours came in. So we had that huge audience, which had seen the show, and everyone had been glued to the television. And then they saw our show. Anne: Right. Pilar: And I was the first one who spoke on the show. It was really cool. Anne: And you were an ugly, horrible personality, right? Pilar: Exactly. I was just, I snarled, I was a snarler. And so it's kind of like a good luck thing. It's kind of like when somebody says that's a kind of a good luck thing in a film when somebody says the name of the film in a film, it's good luck. And in television, in Colombia, it's like the first person who speaks, that's a good little sign. It's like a good luck charm. So, so I was the first person who spoke, and then literally the next day, I was being recognized -- Anne: Wow, that's great. Pilar: -- on the street. Anne: That's fantastic. Pilar: It was the weirdest thing. And so I was like, oh my gosh, what that lady said was true, that fortune teller. Anne: Right? Pilar: A year before practically it came out. Yeah. It was over a year that she had said that. And I thought, this is so interesting. So basically I manifested my way into this job. Anne: Well, I love that. I think there's a lot to be said. I mean, I, it's a new year, you know, and, and I talk all about how being grateful and then really writing down and thinking and manifesting and about what your goals are. I really believe that it comes true. You actually incorporate the steps to make it true. And interestingly enough, notice how I kept noticing all the marketing things that you were doing, which you weren't even realizing at the time. You were developing a relationship. Right? You were keeping top of mind. You were setting goals in place so that you could achieve them to get where you needed to be. So, congratulations. I mean, that's, that's a great story. Pilar: Anne, where were you, where were you in my life? I wish I could have called you out, like brought you back from the future in. My life would be like, you know, but yeah, exactly. So I started working, and I basically did this over and over and over again -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- because in Colombia, telenovelas only last a year. Anne: Oh, that's what I was just going to ask. How long did the show go on, a year? Pilar: Yep. So yeah, because it was actually a little bit more. We do, we did a lot of episodes. Anne: Is it a daily? Like a -- Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Anne: Okay. Daily for a year? Pilar: So it's a daily, but it's not because it's actually prime time. 'Cause it always came out in prompt time. So they're, they're not exactly soap operas. They're, they're like prime time soap, operas. Let's put it that way. That's what they call them. And really they're more like series. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: Because they're not, they have a beginning, middle, and an end. Anne: Got it. Pilar: They don't last for 20 years like they do here -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- or 30 years. So, you know, there's a story. So, you know, it's like a poor girl meets rich guy. Then he does something to her, and then she makes it on her own. And then she's great. And then they live happily ever after, or there's a tragedy, you know, and so, you know, all kinds of different stories. And I got to play all kinds of different characters. I became known as the bad girl because I was one of many bad girls on that first show with, "Eternamente Manuela," and then I became this super duper evil person. And it's so funny because on Instagram -- Anne: On that show or on other shows? Pilar: No, on that show. Anne: Okay. Pilar: That's what really established me as the resident bad girl. They showed "Eternamente Manuela" after many years. And there're all these people on Instagram who were like, oh my gosh, that was you. You were such a bad girl. And they're constantly giving me snippets and stuff that I didn't see. It's so funny. 'Cause like when you're working, you don't have time to watch your own show. You just don't. That's one of the things that -- so I never saw the show, that the entire show. Anne: You have archives that you can post, or is it mostly your fans that are posting -- Pilar: It's a little bit of both. I have some that I post, but most of the time, they show me things, and I'm like, oh my gosh. And I remember filming it, but I don't remember, you know? So it's really fun. It's really great to like kind of like walk down memory lane. I was doing that a lot this past year. Anne: Yeah. That would make sense that you would be, if it's like a daily thing, and you're in and you're just working all the time, it would make sense that you don't always get to watch. It's like, interestingly enough, the VO BOSS podcast only has weekly episodes, but I don't always get a chance to listen to them after we produce them. So every once in a while, when I get a free moment in my car, I'll listen, and I'll be like, oh, okay. And it brings the memories back. Well, that's a pretty decent episode. Pilar: Yeah, exactly. And then you can look back and go, oh yeah. Right. That's interesting. Oh goodness. Anne: When we're in the middle of the manifestation, we're in the middle of the execution, right, you just have to give it up to faith that we're doing a good job and that our listeners and fans are drinking it all in and liking it. And if it were anything, otherwise they would let us know. So. Pilar: Exactly. Anne: Yep. Pilar: Exactly. Barrel along. Anne: All right. So you are a star, a telanova star. And are you doing any other, are you doing any other shows at this point, other than your daily series? Pilar: Well, I did the first show, then I go and I do a second show. And then my second show, I'm playing a gringa. So "hablo así, hablo muy trabada así, con un acento así." And I just, I had a ball. I dyed my hair blonde. I was a blonde. Anne: Wow. Pilar: I was a blonde, Anne. Anne: Wow! Pilar: Oh my gosh. Blondes do have more fun. I'm here to tell you blondes do have more fun. I had so much fun doing that show, and I did so much improvisation on that show. It was amazing. 'Cause I had the latitude. I would sing because I played this housewife who's being cuckolded by her husband who fell -- who falls in love with the lead. So I sit there and I sing away, and I start singing away in English. And it was so much fun to improv on that show because I could do it. And they would let me, 'cause I was playing an American who spoke Spanish. At the same time -- that was a nightly show -- at the same time, I was doing a series, which was an hour weekly. I got a wig. I got a wig for the show. And so I was this very -- the other woman, she had -- American with an accent. She had blue nail polish. She was, she was really cool. She was really modern, wore these little mini skirts. The other series, she was a recovering alcoholic. So she was very prim and proper lawyer. She had a little sort of Lulu Brooks brown haired bangs. And there were people who did not know that I was in both shows, and that was so much fun to do. So then I added that to the roster at the same time. Anne: So you're doing all TV at this point. Pilar: All TV, but here's the thing. I'm doing a lot of interviews. Anne: Makes sense. Pilar: The interviews, I love doing live interviews, but the way -- when I would have the most fun was when I was doing live interviews were when I was doing radio. I had so much fun doing radio interviews. So I always asked my agent -- like I really liked doing them because there was just something so much fun about the spoken word. So I, I keep doing these shows, and I, I had a band going where we would do these jazz nights every Friday night at this place. And I added theater. And at one point I was doing two shows and a musical. It was a Colombian musical. And so I was doing everything at once. And then at some point along the lines, I did an animated show. So they asked me to do an animated show. And so that, I got to do like a whole, that was a whole different world for me. And that's when I really kind of -- Anne: Started voiceover maybe. Pilar: Yes, that's when I started voiceover. Thank you. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And um -- Anne: Sounds like voiceover to me. Pilar: And it, it was so much fun though. 'Cause it was different voices and I got to really play around with it. And since they didn't really know what they wanted, I got to do the voices. I got to give them voices. Anne: So let me ask you a question. Now you're doing an animated show, and you're doing voices. Had you in your acting, your previous acting experience or had you had opportunities to do voices or were you training so that you could create different voices for different characters for acting? Pilar: None whatsoever. Anne: Okay. So these were -- Pilar: No, no. Anne: -- just things that you just brought out to life and -- Pilar: They just asked me to do it. So I did. So they would say, well, let's try this. She's a little bit younger. So I would, I would do a younger voice. And so let's try this person 'cause they're this loud, obnoxious teacher. So I would do this loud, obnoxious teacher. Anne: Had you played around with voices -- Pilar: No. Anne: -- when you were young? Pilar: That's not true. My mother would say absolutely because I used to be -- I was a great mimicker from the time I was a kid. Anne: Got it, got it. Pilar: I had a very good friend of mine's mother was German. So I would speak with the German accent and you know, I hear nothign, I see nothing. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: I would -- I was a great mimic when I was a kid. Anne: You know what's so interesting. I just want to break in a little bit. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: Because I find that where we are in life today, a lot of people that, that kind of tend to follow their heart, follow their dreams end up doing a lot of the same things that they do when they're children. So if you're mimicking, right, when you're a child, like I taught my dolls and I was this teacher for 20 years in front of the classroom. And I do e-learning today. So it's just so interesting that things that I loved when I was a kid, I just brought right through to my, up to my adulthood and to what I bring to my work. So, you mimicking and probably you acted. Did you -- I put on little plays too. Pilar: I can so see you doing that, Anne. I don't know why. I can see you as like a little mini Anne with, with her little glasses -- Anne: As a mini Anne. Pilar: -- just kind of, sort of like a little, like a little chorus and kind of like conducting your dolls. Right? Anne: Yeah. I did. I loved it. I loved it. And I brought it right up. I still do that today. It's so interesting. I think if everybody looks back to their childhood, if they're following their heart or, you know, I always say following my gut. I do both. I do it in my business and in my personal life, I follow my gut, and I really believe that we bring those things from our childhood, and it brings me a lot of joy. I'm pretty sure it brings you joy too. Pilar: I agree. That's so interesting that you bring that up. I really, and truly -- I hadn't, I kind of knew that on an intellectual level, but if I, if I really feel it in my gut, that is absolutely where I get joy -- Anne: Yeah. Pilar: -- was from when I was a kid, and I would do that and I would make other people laugh. I would make my mother laugh all the time, you know? Anne: Yeah. Pilar: Wow. Anne: So then yeah, so now you've transitioned, or not necessarily transitioned, but you've added to your repertoire some animation and voiceover. Pilar: Yes. Anne: Wow. Pilar: Yes. Anne: Without even knowing it. Pilar: It was just, it was, it was there. The opportunity was there, because I lived in a -- Bogotá is a place where everything is together. That's not really the case anymore, but it used to be that Los Angeles where it was where you did film and television, New York was where you did more theater. Anne: Yeah. Pilar: And theater, yes. Theater, was in the 50's, there was more television. And then I don't know why or, or what I mean, and I don't know the history of this, but it just became more of a theater town, and you know, then, you know, slowly but surely, they started doing the studios in Queens, and then more film and television came, and now there's a whole bunch more voiceover. And there always was that, but I feel like LA was the big place for all that stuff. And so Bogotá kind of did -- had everything. So I had a lot more opportunity -- Anne: Interesting. Pilar: -- to, to kind of -- Anne: Broaden. Pilar: Yeah, yeah. Broaden my horizons that way. So I basically just went from show to show to show. I never really stopped. There was one show that I did. It was the last show that I got to play a bolero and ranchera singer. I was hired on the basis of, I actually did a, uh -- back in, I was on a, this thing called Restaurant Row in New York, Cabaret Row. It's called, Don't Tell Mama. And I did this show called, um, I can't remember what it was. It was, it was a revue. And I played this character called Nora the Dominatrix. There was this one song that I had to sing. And it was "you ache for the touch of my lips dear, but much more for the touch of my whips, dear. I can raise welts. Like nobody else, as we dance to the domination tango." Anne: Love it. Pilar: So it was, it was so hysterical. And I was, I was all decked out in this whole dominatrix costume. And that was a whole, I actually, to get the costume, when I lived in New York, I went to Patricia Field, which back then, which was on 8th Street. And I walked in and I had to look for like, like I was looking for, I didn't know what I was really looking for. And this one, beautiful, beautiful, tall transvestite comes and says, can I help you, dear? And she had this long blonde hair. And so I'm like, I have no idea what I'm looking for, 'cause I don't know what a dominatrix looks like. I'm supposed to dress like a dominatrix. So there's this woman and she's kind of mousy. She's got a long raincoat on, and she's looking around and the salesperson's helping me. And then she comes up to me and she says, what are you looking for? And I said, well, I don't really know what a dominatrix looks like. She said, I'm a dominatrix. And I look at her and I'm like, oh, and I'm like, do you mind if I get my pen and paper out? She starts telling me what a dominatrix does. She gave me all this information. So I get the outfit and, you know, dog collar, little short shorts, you know, the whole thing, the fishnet stock and a whip. Anne: Yup, yup. Pilar: So for the audition that I did for the, back to what we're talking about, for this show, I wore that whole costume, and they were like, you got the job. Anne: Yep. Pilar: So -- Anne: You walked in, you got it. Pilar: Exactly. And I'm wearing like a little, a little blonde wig. So I had to sing when it was my turn to sing and I don't know why this is, but it was, it was really kind of a unique situation. It was my responsibility. So I would hire these guys, which of course the network paid for. But I, I would hire these -- a mariachi band, and they would come to the studio, and we would sing this song or wherever. And then I would learn the song for that week. And so it was like a little performance. So it was like, I was doing like a little play within the show, and it was such a great experience because I didn't have much time. So I had to -- it was like learning copy. Anne: Sure. Pilar: It's like, I had to, I had to learn the song quickly and have it as if I -- Anne: And deliver. Pilar: And deliver. So it was like, it was all of what I'm describing was just great practice for what I do today. Anne: So now do you come back to New York after a certain amount of time? Or how long are you down in Colombia? Pilar: Nine years. Anne: Okay. Pilar: I'm in, I'm in Colombia for nine years. And so I do all these different things, and my father passed away in '99, and that's when I realized kind of wanted to be near my mother and my sister. But I'm thinking, I don't know if I want to go back to New York. I'd like to try something different. And I thought, well, and I'd always been in love with Miami, because it was so beautiful -- Anne: Yup. Pilar: -- and just like, Ugh. So I wanted to go to LA, but I was too scared. I was like, it's just too big. It's just, there's just too much. I thought, let me try Miami. It's another market. Let me see what it's like. Anne: All right. Pilar: So I get to Miami, I have cousins there and I, I live with them, and I'm like, well, you know, I've been a telenovella actress for the past nine years. I've got all this body of work. I'm set, and I get there, and I don't get one job for a year. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm starting again. Anne: And here starts your life in Miami. Pilar: Yeah. Anne: And actually this is a good segue for part two. Part two. So yeah. So we're going to be continuing the story, which is a very interesting story, because I can draw so many parallels to see how you've evolved, how you've grown, and it really draws so many parallels to the voiceover industry and how you can grow as an artist anywhere really, whether you're doing voiceover acting, in television, theater on the stage; it really is such a wonderful, I guess, reveal, Pilar, of your career and how we can, we can learn from that. So I'd like to give a great, big shout out right now to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. You can find out more at ipdtl.com. Pilar, I cannot wait for our next episode to continue the conversation. So thank you so much for being with me today. And we will come back for part two in the next episode. Take care, BOSSes. Bye! Pilar: Thank you, Anne. This was a pleasure. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. 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