Podcasts about Gee

Silver Quintette - "Sinner's Crossroads" [0:00:20] Voices of Whiterock - "Oh Jerusalem" [0:03:43] Ellison Singers - "He's Holding Me" - He's Holding Me [0:07:27] Airs of Harmony - "When I Was a Sinner" [0:14:15] Mission Light Singers - "How Much I Owe the Lord" [0:16:51] Spiritualaires of Hurtsboro, Alabama - "Trouble" - Singing Songs of Praise [0:20:01] White Rose Quartet - "Gospel Train" [These are the famous Gee's Bend quilter, recorded by Steve Grauberger.] [0:23:51] Two Sons of Thunder and Madame Jackson - "Made Up My Mind" [0:26:23] Kings of Joy - "Somebody Knows" [0:29:14] Elder Lanier and the Zion Travelers - "Yes I Know" [0:33:47] Reliable True Tones - "I Come a Long Ways" [0:39:11] Fabulous Golden Tones - "The Lord is My Shepherd" - Take Care of Me Lord [Mary Margaret Legette, lead vocal] [0:39:57] Golden Trumpets - "There's Been a Change in Me" [0:45:13] Gospel Seekers - "You've Been Good to Me" [0:46:37] Southern Tones of Raymond, Miss. - "Somebody's Gone" [0:50:20] https://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/161223

Lawmakers press Attorney General Pam Bondi for not responding to victims in Epstein files // GUEST: Flight attendant from Gee’s VIRAL VIDEO: Eric Cato // SCENARIOS 

How many 12s made it out to the parade? / Seattle reaches settlement for family of young woman killed in car crash / plans of ICE at World Cup games in Seattle  // Gee shares his favorite moments from the parade // Continued conversation about why yesterday was a special day for the 12s

Hey we're back! And where did everybody go? Seriously... it's like a ghost town around here. No one. Nothing. Not even one Shake Shack. Anyway, Mike (@comedymikegoldstein) and Lizzy (@lizzyhoo) were clearly up all night partying with Kyrgios because they are dusty and barely making sense. There's tennis-adjacent chat, new (and very cheap) graphics, and some wild speculation about what AO champion, Carlos Alcaraz, will get for a tattoo. And all this happens while Ace vapes in the corner, giving off a menacing vibe. Oh, and we finish with a very special visit from the uber-sensual tennis legend, Marat Safin. Gee he's cool. And smells nice. I mean like, really nice. I would best describe it as an intoxicating mix of moisturising cream and sandalwood. AusOpen.comiHeartApple PodcastsSpotifyYouTubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Gee joins us ahead of the parade / Chris Sullivan takes a look at the day's traffic / Would you pay $12 to pay for 12s damage? // The controversy of the Winter Olympics Skating Backflip // Joint income or split? The finance question facing couples

Live recaps of trophy ceremony and parade with Luke, Gee and listener Andrew! // Agree to Disagree: Winter Bronze Olympic Medalist tells the whole world he cheated on his girlfriend and wants her back // TEXTS

Gee joins us live from the Bay Area to recount his experience at the Super Bowl // GUEST: Luke Duecy shares his experience interviewing the 12s // WE NEED TO TALK:  Seahawks Parade is happening Wednesday! Is it ok to play hooky?

Gee reacts to Halftime Show // Split Screen: Households around America divided watching TPUSA "All-American" halftime while Bad Bunny performed // GUEST: Beth Hartman, Seattle Seahawks superfan who was in the crowd on Sunday

Exclusive Super Bowl Interviews with Gee // AGREE TO DISAGREE: Were the ads this year a hit or a miss? // WE HEAR YOU! and WORDS TO LIVE BY

durée : 01:00:08 - Oh Gee - par : Nathalie Piolé -

No more excuses. No more waiting to see how things play out. AI has moved past the experimental phase, and if you’re still treating it like a nice-to-have rather than a fundamental shift in how your agency operates, you’re already falling behind. In this episode, Chip comes out swinging with a wake-up call for the agency community: the ground is shifting faster than most are willing to admit, and the window for meaningful adaptation is closing. Gini backs him up with examples of how AI has progressed from an intern-level tool to something that can genuinely replace mid-level work—if agencies don’t evolve what they’re selling. They dig into the practical reality of training AI tools to work like team members, not just one-off prompt machines. Chip explains how he uses different platforms for different strengths—Claude for writing, Gemini for competitive intelligence, Perplexity for research, and ChatGPT as his strategic baseline. Gini shares how her 12-year-old daughter creates entire anime worlds through conversation with AI, demonstrating the power of treating these tools as collaborators rather than search engines. The conversation covers what clients actually want to pay for in 2026 (hint: it’s not social posts and press releases), how to build AI agents trained on your specific expertise, and why the process of training AI forces valuable clarity about your business. They emphasize that this isn’t about slapping the “AI-powered” label on your services—it’s about fundamentally rethinking what value you deliver and how you deliver it. If you’ve been sitting on the sidelines waiting for the AI dust to settle, this episode is your warning: there is no settling. There’s only evolution or extinction. Key takeaways Chip Griffin: “If you do not change, it will replace you. It will take away your revenue. If you keep doing the same thing that you’re doing today, it absolutely will destroy you.” Gini Dietrich: “We are no longer relying on our agencies to do the work. We are relying on agencies to teach us what’s coming ’cause we don’t have the time.” Chip Griffin: “AI is not just changing how your business operates, it’s changing how other businesses operate. It’s changing how the media operates. And so it is truly a disruptive force that we need to be thinking about.” Gini Dietrich: “When somebody says to me, oh, I just can’t get it to output what I need, I’m like, user error. You haven’t taken the time to train it.” Turn ideas into action Train one AI tool this week like you’d train an employee. Pick the platform you use most (ChatGPT, Claude, or Gemini) and spend 30 minutes having an actual conversation with it about your preferences—tone, structure, what you hate (like emojis), and what outcomes you need. Feed it examples of your best work and tell it explicitly when outputs miss the mark and why. The tool won’t improve with one-shot prompts; it needs training just like a new hire. Map what clients will actually pay for in 2026. Block one hour to list every service you currently bill for, then honestly assess which ones AI can now handle at a competent level. Don’t lie to yourself—if ChatGPT can draft solid social posts or press releases after reviewing past examples, that’s table stakes now. Identify what remains valuable: strategy, teaching clients to use these tools, implementing new processes, or solving problems AI can’t touch. This clarity will drive every business decision you make this year. Test AI on something personal before rolling it to client work. If you or your team are intimidated by AI, start with meal planning, fitness routines, managing schedules, or drafting birthday card messages. Use it for something low-stakes where you can experiment with conversation-style prompting without pressure. Once you see how it responds to feedback and training in a personal context, you’ll understand how to apply the same approach to agency work. Resources LinkedIn post by Vineet Mehra that Gini references Related Agencies succeed through consistency and evolution AI myths agencies must avoid View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And Gini, you know, we started the new year off on a note where we weren’t gonna yell at our audience, but I feel like it, it’s time to yell at our audience again. I’ve taken too much time off from being Mr. Nice guy. Gini Dietrich: Okay, well this shall be interesting. I can’t wait. Chip Griffin: I, and this is, it’s partly for our audience, but it’s really for the overall agency community, particularly PR and marketing, PR and communications generally, even outside the agency world. I’m just, I’ve become kind of wound up lately because I think that the industry as a whole, and perhaps even some of our listeners are not acting swiftly enough to understand just how much the ground is shifting beneath them. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: And how much serious evolution needs to take place. Really over the next year. I mean, I don’t think, I don’t think we’re on a long-term horizon here. I think that too many have waited to change too long in many ways, and AI is now becoming sort of the, the real trigger point for it, but it’s bigger than that. I think a lot of the, the PR space in general has lagged behind a lot of what’s going on in the business community, and AI is just the fist to the face that’s, that’s gonna separate out the people who are gonna survive. Gini Dietrich: The fist to the face. Wow. All right, then. Chip Griffin: I told you I was a little wound up on this one, so, Gini Dietrich: okay. So everybody’s gonna be punched in the face. Got it. Okay. Chip Griffin: If that’s what it takes to wake up and pay attention. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, no, I, yeah, I totally agree with you. And, you know, I have been gungho on AI for going on four years now. And it’s, it’s my second love for sure. But it is time to pay attention to how it is changing things and what it’s going to do to your business, to your teams, to how you deliver work, all those things. Chip Griffin: I mean, look, a lot of the PR world has been focused in recent years on figuring out how to keep their head above water and survive, and hang on to the old ways of doing things. And this predates the explosion of AI in recent years. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: But, what the explosion of AI has done is really, it has drawn the attention of particularly clients to the issue. It has drawn the attention of employees. It, and it is still being ignored. And I think we’ve hit that point where we can no longer ignore it. I think we’re at the point with a lot of these AI tools where they are now both accessible and reliable enough that there’s no reason not to accelerate your pace of change using AI as a tool to get there. And we’ve talked about this before, and I, and I’m not changing my point of view, AI is not the end in itself. The AI is just a way to get there. So don’t mistake what I’m saying here for saying that, you know, you just need to adopt AI for the sake of AI. You still need to find problems to solve first and AI will help you on a lot of them, but you need to be finding those problems. You need to be thinking ahead to what do clients really want from you? What is going to help them to get the results they’re looking for? It can’t be about how do I use AI to make myself a little bit more efficient in what I’m currently doing. Because everything is changing. And we need to be on top of that. Gini Dietrich: I read an article on LinkedIn probably in November, and I’ll see if I can find the link to include in show notes. But it, it was from a chief marketing officer at a Fortune 10 company, and what he said was this: if I were an agency wanting to work with clients in 2026, here are five things I would do. And I can’t remember all of them, but one of them was teach organizations, teach marketing and comms teams how to use AI to be more effective. Implement your process, whatever it happens to be. Because we are no longer relying on our agencies to do the work. We are relying on agencies to teach us what’s coming ’cause we don’t have the time. And that has stuck in my head because I think that’s right. I think that. Yeah, sure, agencies will always, or big companies, will always need arm extra arms and legs to do the work, but that’s not the work that most of us want to be doing. Right? We don’t wanna be writing the social posts and the news releases. We wanna be part of the strategic conversation. We wanna be part of the of helping to move an organization forward. And if we can do that by teaching our clients how to use AI to be more effective, to be more productive, to accelerate their work, and I know everybody’s worried it’s going to replace me, it’s going to, it’s going to reduce our number, our billable hours, whatever happens to be. I think there’s a huge opportunity here for you to reframe how you’re helping clients and using AI to be able to do that. Chip Griffin: Yeah, but I would be very direct with listeners. If you do not change, it will replace you. It will take away. Gini Dietrich: That’s fair. That’s totally fair. Chip Griffin: Your revenue. Gini Dietrich: Yes, it will. I totally agree with you. Yeah. Chip Griffin: So, you know when we say that you know that AI is not gonna destroy your agency, that’s only if you evolve. Gini Dietrich: That’s fair. Chip Griffin: If you keep doing the same thing that you’re doing today, it absolutely will destroy you. I don’t care whether you’re an employee or a business or whatever, if you are an employee and you think that AI isn’t gonna take your job in a year, it is If you don’t evolve, that’s and figure out how to use it for yourself. Gini Dietrich: Yep. That’s totally fair. Chip Griffin: And we need, everybody who’s listening needs to wake up to that fact. It requires a huge mindset shift. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Because AI can write your news releases, it can write your social posts. It can do all of that stuff that Chip Griffin: not only can, Gini Dietrich: we don’t wanna do anyway, Chip Griffin: It should. Yeah. Because it has evolved enough in the last year that the quality is there now. I used to describe AI as an intern. It is moved beyond the intern stage. Yep. It is at a minimum a junior employee, and if you train it well for your organization, it can be even a mid-level employee or perhaps even in some cases more than that. But this training piece is important too, because part of the problem that a lot of people run into in my experience is they, they hop onto the AI tool and they just say, Hey, write this press release on this subject. And I look at it, oh, this is rubbish. It still requires a lot of work. You know what? It absolutely does. The same thing would happen if you hired an employee off the street who knew nothing about you and your clients, and you said, write me a press release. The result would probably be pretty similar to what the AI came up with. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Chip Griffin: But once that employee starts writing more press releases and you start telling ’em, this is the tone of voice we use, this is the style we use, these are the facts we use. You feed more information into it. You explain your preferences. When you’re using these AI tools, you need to just be direct with it. Don’t accept the first response. Explain as you would with an employee what you want done differently. If you do that, it will tailor the outcomes. Even simple stuff. Like I’ve told them, stop showing me damn emojis. I don’t wanna see an emoji in any response because I think it’s wildly unprofessional and I hate them. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: So guess what? I don’t see them anymore. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: I’ve asked it to tighten up the spacing on it so that I can see more on a screen. It does that. And that’s even before you start telling it, you know, this is the structure of a paragraph that I like. You start feeding in information. I’ve fed in a thousand articles and transcripts and that sort of stuff into the platforms. It now can speak like me reliably to the point where I don’t know if what it’s giving me is a quote from something I’ve written before or original text that it’s come up with that just speaks so clearly in my voice. Gini Dietrich: I love that it will say, it will give, usually gives me three options. One is like strategic leadership, like C-level blurbs. That with Gini-isms or like smart, funny, witty blurbs. And then I can decide, and usually what I do is I take a combination of the three, but it has gotten to the point where if it actually calls it Gini-isms, that like it knows how I talk, it knows how I write, it knows how I coach, it does it knows all of those things. And it has created an opportunity for me to say, yeah, this probably, we probably shouldn’t have some Gini-isms in this ’cause it’s really professional. Or, we can include more because it’s more me talking to a screen or whatever happens to be. So it’s gotten to that point. It’s, when you train it, it’s very, very good. Chip Griffin: Well, and you can even tailor those recommendations. So one of the things that, that I’ve told it is it’s fine to give me multiple options, but give me your recommendation. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: And when you do that, don’t give me a whole lot of backup on the alternative. So spend your time explaining why you’re making the recommendation. That’s fine. But then, you know, if it’s, let’s say it’s a title or something like that, you know, give me three or four other options, but it, by default, it tends to explain those three or other four other options. And so now you’re dealing with like a 10 page response, Gini Dietrich: right? Chip Griffin: For what should be something pretty simple. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Chip Griffin: So. I, part of my instructions to my tools are, don’t do that. Give me the alternatives, but just, you know, bullet point them. If I want more information, I’ll ask for it, but it allows it to work more the way that I want it to. And so we all need to do that. We also need to be looking at these tools and understanding that there’s no one size fits all solution. I have people say, well, should I, you know, should I use Claude or Chat GPT or Gemini? The answer is yes. Gini Dietrich: Yes to all of them. Chip Griffin: But they all serve different purposes. Yep. Just like you have different employees who serve different roles, these tools excel in different areas. I mean, Claude is fantastic at writing. I mean, to me, Claude is my head of writing because it can just absolutely nail it, but there’s a lot of things that it doesn’t do quite as well. Gini Dietrich: That’s right. Yep. Chip Griffin: And then I look at something like Gemini, and I love what Gemini does in terms of inferring things from research. So it’s more willing to go out on a limb, and kind of read between the lines of things that it finds to come back with, particularly for competitive intelligence or things like that. You know, deep research. Whereas Perplexity is very good for research where you really wanna make sure it’s accurate and you really wanna be able to cite all the sources, but it will not go out on a limb. So understanding what the strengths of each platform are is useful. And then there’s Chat GPT, which is sort of my, you know, my default choice for just basic stuff, strategy, et cetera. But I’ve also told it, tell me when I should go somewhere else. And so it’s good. It’ll say You should hand this off to Claude now. Gini Dietrich: I love that. Chip Griffin: Because we’ve, I’ve had an actual conversation with Chat GPT about my stack and, and what I think of it and I bounced things around and, you know, refined it. So now it knows how I want to handle certain things. And so it will stop at a certain point and say, now it’s time for you to go here. And that’s really helpful. Gini Dietrich: I love that. I do not do that. I usually move between, but I haven’t had it recommend when to move it. That’s… Chip Griffin: Yeah. I mean, but it could, because it won’t generally by default tell you to do that. But if you, if you explain what you have access to and what you want to use it for, it will tell you when is the right time, and sometimes I’ll pause and say, are you really the right one for this? Or should I be using one or the others? And they’ll say, no. Good point. You know, you should use this one instead for this particular task. Gini Dietrich: I love that. Chip Griffin: And it’s great. I mean, and I’ll, I’ll bring things back and forth like, so when I’m creating a piece of content, I’ll often, you know, ask more of the strategy piece from Chat GPT, because I’ve put more of the strategy stuff into there. Then I’ll go over to Claude to write it, but then I’ll bring it back for feedback. Now the next level is then to automate this with agents with n8n and those kinds of things. And, and so, you know, I’ll play with those things too. But for now, even doing it manually is a huge time saver, Gini Dietrich: huge time saver, Chip Griffin: and still ends up with really high quality content. It’s not, people talk about how AI is helping put out rubbish. And that’s because people are doing it without training. Gini Dietrich: Correct. Chip Griffin: You need to think through how you use these tools to get the results that your clients are looking for and the results that you need as a business. And this is where people are falling down, and this is where a lot more effort needs to go into it. If you want to not just survive but thrive. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I totally agree with you. And you know, it’s funny ’cause when somebody says to me, oh, I just can’t get it to output what I need, and I’m like, user error. I usually say that because that’s exactly what it is, is you haven’t taken the time to train it. I, and you have to, I, you said earlier, you talk to it like it’s an employee. I do the same thing. Talk to it through like, okay, this isn’t quite right and here’s why. Think about this, this, this, and this. We also need to consider these things. And then it goes. Oh, okay. Goes into thinking mode and then it, it outputs pretty close to, but you have to have a conversation with it. I use this example all the time, but my 12-year-old is obsessed. Obsessed with anime, and she like, no, nothing else exists in her world right now other than anime. And she has created an entirely new ecosystem of anime worlds from her favorite shows using chat GPT. I mean, it’s so good that I’ve actually considered. Finding a, a publisher to have it published as fanfiction because it’s that good. And she doesn’t type into it. She literally has a conversation with Chat. She calls it Gee. And she will say, Gee, I’m thinking about this. I want the guy to do this, and I want the girl to do this. And like she has a whole conversation and it creates this world with her that… it’s fascinating to sit and listen to how she’s using it. So it’s the same kind of thing. Have a conversation with it. You can do it via voice, you can do it, you know, by typing whatever is easiest for you. But have a conversation with it and teach it just like you would an employee. It’s gonna learn faster. It doesn’t sleep, it doesn’t need to eat. It doesn’t need to work out. It doesn’t need to take a break. It doesn’t, it’s not going to pause for meetings. You can have stuff running in the background while you’re doing something else. I mean, it’s the more time you spend training it, just like with a human being, the better it is. Chip Griffin: Yep. And I’m gonna be honest, it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be more work and stress in the short term for you. Gini Dietrich: Sure. Chip Griffin: Yeah. I mean, this is not, Gini Dietrich: mm-hmm. Chip Griffin: You know, this is not a quick fix. It is not. It is not something where there’s some magic formula. You’re gonna have to try to figure out what works for you and for your team. What works for your clients. And the client piece is really where you need to start with this. You need to spend some time thinking about what are your clients really hiring you for? What are they going to need you for 12, 18, 24 months down the road? Then start figuring out how these tools can help you to get there. Because there’s just, there is too much of this “Well, you know, I need to, I need to protect my billing model, and so I need to do value pricing because of AI.” That is not the answer. Although if it were, what you would discover is that, that people are valuing less what you are doing today. So if you’re truly going to follow value pricing, that doesn’t mean that you get more. It means you probably get less for a lot of these things because they realize, you know, that drafting of a press release, I actually can get that out of Claude pretty well. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Yeah. Chip Griffin: Particularly if you feed it in your last three or four years worth of press releases. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: It’ll be pretty darn good at coming up with them on their own. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: Probably candidly, in less time that it takes to communicate to your team that they want it. Gini Dietrich: Yep. 100%. Yes. Chip Griffin: Now there will still be companies that are happy to outsource it generally. Gini Dietrich: Sure. Chip Griffin: Right. That’s, that is always going to exist. But the way that they value it from a price standpoint and the other things that they want alongside of it will absolutely change. And you need to be thinking about that. Because AI is not just changing how your business operates, it’s changing how other businesses operate. It’s changing how the media operates. And so it is truly a disruptive force that we need to be thinking about as communicators and as agency folks because it, it upends a lot of what we have done, tactically at least, in recent years and over the decades. It does not upset the outcomes that are being sought after. Gini Dietrich: That’s right. Chip Griffin: From the work that we’re doing. Gini Dietrich: That’s right. Chip Griffin: And, and we lose sight of that for the tactics too often. Gini Dietrich: One of the things that I did is I built an agent, and I call it my co CEO. And as I was building it, I was going through a really rough HR time and so I used it mostly, honestly, just to vent. But it got to know me, and what’s important to me, and my voice, and what things I wanted to be human forward on, and what things I needed to stay professional on. And so I, as I was building it, it was, I was going through that process. Now I can say to it, okay, we’re thinking about doing this. So for instance, a client came to me probably midyear last year and said, Hey, we really want your team to do an audit of all of our brands and where they sit on the PESO model maturity level. And I kind of laughed and said, well, I can tell you right now, they’re all at level zero. And he was like, great, that’s good to know. What’s what takes us from zero to one, one to two, and so on up. And I thought about that for a little bit and I was like, hmm. I don’t have an answer for that. And so I went into my CO CEO and I had a conversation with it. Like, if we were gonna build a maturity model for the PESO model for an enterprise customer, what does that look like? And it probably took two weeks for me to get something that I could go back to him with and feel comfortable and confident with it. But it would’ve taken me two months to do that on my own. So, you know, it helps you think, it helps poke through holes in things. You have an AI that you’re building and I hope it’s okay for me to mention this ’cause I don’t know if it’s available yet, but I got to beta test it and it’s, I put in there that I was looking for. I said, okay, this is where, this is where the business is at the end of 2025. These are our goals for 2026. Here’s what I’d like to do in the next three to five years. Here’s like, I put in all of that information, where are the holes? And it started poking holes into things that I had never even considered. And I was like. Chip, this is really good. It’s just, it’s really, really good. So when you, when you train it, when you teach it what you’re wanting, what your voice is, what you’re trying to achieve, it is going to help you in more ways than one. It’s gonna help you think through problems. It’s gonna help you come up with solutions you didn’t consider. And like I said, it doesn’t need to sleep. So it can work in the background while you’re doing other things. Chip Griffin: Yeah. And there are a lot of these ways that we can innovate for our businesses and that particular example, it is live on the SAGA website now. It’s an AI agent called Sage. Gini Dietrich: It’s awesome and everyone should check it out. Chip Griffin: It’s trained on a huge volume of my both public and private materials that I’ve created over the last eight or nine years, and it does a remarkably good job of mimicking the advice I would give. Is it a hundred percent? One-to-one? No. Yeah, but it’s, it’s pretty darn close to the point where I’ve had a couple of clients now who have tried it and then asked me the same question they asked of Sage, and they got almost exactly the same answer. And, and so that’s how, you know, it’s, it’s working pretty well because I think, as any listener knows, I have some views that are not necessarily exactly in line with every other advisor in the agency space. And so, and in some of those cases, they were pieces of advice that you wouldn’t get if you went somewhere else. So, you know, you can tell that it’s actually using the training materials. And not simply doing a general knowledge search. But these are all things, it does take time. You’ve gotta have the material to provide to it. You need to spend the time with it, as you did in conversing and going back and forth. But the more you go back and forth, the smarter it gets. Gini Dietrich: That’s right. Chip Griffin: And the better it can help you the next time something comes along. Gini Dietrich: That’s right. Chip Griffin: And I think the other thing is that the more you use these tools, the more it forces you to think about some of these things. Because in order to get the most from them, you really have to be very clear about who is your ideal client? What are the services you provide? What is the value you deliver? And so, it’s just like a business plan. I always say that the business plan itself doesn’t really matter, but the process you go through to create it does. The process you go through to train your AI itself is beneficial and helps to get clarity. Because the clearer you are with the AI, the clearer you are with yourself by necessity. And so you need to be thinking about these things. You need to be really thinking about making much more radical change to your business over the next year or two than you probably have previously thought. You really need to be thinking about how not just technology, but client needs will force this change, otherwise you are gonna get left behind. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I totally agree. And to your point earlier, if you evolve and if you use it, and you’re better, you’re doing a better job of understanding what it is that your clients are willing to pay for, and they’re still willing to do it. They just don’t wanna pay for social posts and news releases. Chip Griffin: That’s right. I mean, there’s a huge opportunity here. There’s a giant threat, Gini Dietrich: huge opportunity, Chip Griffin: and I don’t wanna minimize that, but there’s a huge opportunity. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: But the key is you actually have to evolve and change. You can’t just play buzzword bingo. Gini Dietrich: Yes, please. Chip Griffin: Just slapping AI on top of something that you deliver that’s not gonna help you. Gini Dietrich: And it’s fun. It’s fun to test it. It’s fun to try it out. So do it. Chip Griffin: Yeah, Gini Dietrich: Do it, do it, do it. Chip Griffin: I mean, but we can’t minimize. It is scary for a lot of people too. I mean, Gini Dietrich: sure, absolutely. Yeah. Chip Griffin: But you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta embrace that fear if you wanna succeed. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I always say when I have somebody new join the team that’s scared of it, I say, all right, let’s do it. Let’s use it for something personal. So I will say that to you as well. Meal planning, fitness, hobbies. Managing your kids’ meltdowns, whatever it happens to be, just try it for something. Write a poem in a birthday card. Try it for something personal, and I guarantee you, you’ll be hooked. Chip Griffin: I had no idea we’d be getting to poems and birthday cards here today. So I think that’s the note that we’re gonna wrap up this episode on. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And it depends.

Melinda Gates responds to Epstein Files / Savannah Guthrie to Skip Olympics as Search for Mother Yields Few Clues // Eddie Bauer and Bahama Breeze closing down // Gee's interview with Luke Willson

NFL pushing Jody Allen to sell Seahawks, report says // Democrats unveil WA income tax on people earning over $1 million // GUEST: Rick Rizzs on his big announcement and his baseball journey // Gee had to travel like the rest of us... in coach!

Episode 275-Pretti’s Law  Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 275 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS Second Amendment, Minnesota protest, Firearm Policy Coalition, natural rights, government officials, political opportunity, federal law, carry rights, red flag laws, gun rights, law enforcement, public carry, constitutional rights, gun policy, political reaction. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Speaker 1, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:18 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:20 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:21 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, we’ve been following the events in Minnesota, and I’m sure you have as well. And, you know, this is troubling. It’s created quite an interesting political situation, and it’s kind of strange to see sides shifting. Yet, it appears that this may, in fact, be a political opportunity to help the Second Amendment get strengthened. Let me tell you where I’m going with this. Take a look here at the Firearm Policy Coalition’s recent statement. (https://www.firearmspolicy.org/fpc-statement-rights-are-not-privileges) I don’t know if you’re familiar with the FPC, but they do a lot of great work in litigating through the court system, Second Amendment challenges. As a national group, they do good work, and they put out a statement that I thought was very interesting. It’ll lay the groundwork as we get a little bit more into depth about where I see some potential here that should be taken, frankly, advantage of in this interesting moment in time. Evan Nappen 01:50 So, what the FPC wrote in their statement is this. “Recent events in Minnesota underscore a recurring and deeply troubling theme: Government officials and commentators treating natural rights as privileges.” Now that’s an important statement right there about treating rights as privileges. As they mentioned in the article, the Second Amendment, like the First and Fourth, is merely codification of pre-existing rights. They don’t create the rights. The Supreme Court has long recognized that the right to keep and bear arms is not a right granted by the Constitution. The Constitution simply is a guarantee of those rights and puts limits on Government, not the people. That’s why, if someone ever asked you, what rights are you given by the Constitution? The answer is none! Because those rights pre-exist the Constitution. The Constitution is there as a guarantor, guaranteeing those rights against the Government. And it puts limits on the Government to ensure that our rights stay respected. It doesn’t grant us rights. Only God granted us our rights, or natural law has granted those rights. Fundamental, fundamental natural laws. That’s what we’re talking about when it comes to actual rights. Page – 2 – of 9 Evan Nappen 03:18 So, this gets distorted politically by politicians who apparently seem to forget that. And here we end up in Minnesota, where this individual, (Alex) Pretti, came to this protest with a gun. The FPC points out that the mere presence of a firearm does not erase a person’s rights. It doesn’t turn lawful conduct into wrongdoing. It does not make someone fair game to be arrested or killed for the Government’s convenience. The Government does not get to flip the legal or moral burden. The fact that one is armed is not a license for the Government to shoot you! Nor is a right to bear arms a license for any person to use unjust force. And that is very strong and very true. This is where this situation now where Pretti ended up getting shot and killed by ICE for essentially bringing his gun to the protest. There’s a lot of dispute now over whether he used it, drew it, or whether he’s being disarmed, whether there was, I mean, there. All that’s out there. Evan Nappen 04:43 But my point isn’t whether Pretti, as a matter of fact, I don’t even support Pretti’s political view here. I’m all for ICE. I’m not. I don’t want to see our country with illegal immigrants but that’s my view. That’s my opinion. Okay, that’s fine. And Pretti had his opinion. He has a First Amendment right, and he has a Second Amendment right. The problem is reaction to the exercise of his Second Amendment right. When you take a look at what happened here, it’s somewhat disturbing that those folks that are supposed to be understanding what the Second Amendment means take an anti-Second Amendment group’s view. So, Politico had an article. It’s “Gun Rights groups blast Trump over Minnesota response”. (https://www.politico.com/news/2026/01/27/gun-rights-groups-blast-trump-over-minnesota-response-00748217) And in fact, they did. Evan Nappen 05:47 Let me show you what has happened, where the tables and the issue has turned here. It’s very interesting, because I think it presents an opportunity that we’ll get to in a moment. So, for example, this is right from the Politico article. “FBI Director Kash Patel said Sunday on Fox News. ‘You cannot bring a firearm, loaded, with multiple magazines to any sort of protest that you want. It’s that simple. You don’t have a right to break the law.’ DHS Secretary Kristi Noem said Saturday that she didn’t ‘know of any peaceful protester that shows up with a gun and ammunition rather than a sign.’ White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt said Monday that ‘any gun owner knows’ that carrying a gun raises ‘the assumption of risk and the risk of force being used against you,’ during interactions with law enforcement.” I mean, come on. What the hell is with these people there? They are feeding into the Second Amendment oppressionists with this, with this stuff. Evan Nappen 07:05 So, gun rights groups pushed back, and a number of them were particularly enraged by Bill Essayli. He’s the acting U.S. Attorney for the Central District of California, who posted, “If you approach law enforcement with a gun, there is a high likelihood they will be legally justified in shooting you.” What the “f” is he saying? Are you kidding me? If you approach law enforcement with a gun, there’s a high likelihood that they’ll be “legally justified in shooting you”. The NRA, okay? The NRA said that Essayli’s remarks were “dangerous and wrong” and called for a full investigation, instead of “making generalizations and demonizing law-abiding citizens”. That’s the NRA folks saying that now to this Page – 3 – of 9 character. Aidan Johnston, the Director of federal affairs for Gun Owners of America, called Essayli’s remarks, “absolutely unacceptable”. That’s GOA. I mean, listen this quote from Johnston. “Federal prosecutors should know better than to comment on a situation when he didn’t know all the facts, to make a judgment in a case like this, and then also, just to make a blanket statement, threatening gun owners in that way.” And Johnston is absolutely right. It’s outrageous. And yet, yeah, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 08:48 I will say, just taking a step back and looking at what they’ve kind of just put out of their reaction. You brought a gun and all the other and there’s stupid comments. What they could have said, which would have been a very easy play, is the Second Amendment isn’t your right to attack law enforcement officers. All right.? It has nothing to do with the carry. It had to do with the fact that it is agitators obstructing and attacking ICE. That would have been the very easy statement, but no. Evan Nappen 09:21 They focused just on the action and not the carry. But instead they focus on, oh, you come up to a law officer with a gun, they’re legally justified at shooting you. No, they’re not. They’re not. Unless you’re going to use it wrongly. Okay, we can all. And then the Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus chair Bryan Strawser, he said, “We can all see what is on the video” what happened, and he’s not on the side of what the Trump administration is putting out. As a matter of fact, it says, an analysis done by the Washington Post that federal agents appear to have secured Pretti’s gun moments before an agent shot him. Teddy Nappen 10:18 So, just to break it down, a little more from that which they’re ignoring. I love the mainstream media loves to ignore. They take away the first 30 seconds where it’s him getting into it with the officers, where they’re blocking traffic, where he’d been doing that all day, and the woman was also blocking traffic. The officer shoves her out of the way because they’re blocking traffic, obstruction, you know, a crime. And then he tries to be the white knight and gets in it with the officer. They’re trying to pin him down to arrest him. He’s still fighting. He’s still fighting. One of the guys sees a gun and yells, gun. He pulls the gun away. And during it’s like, I didn’t know the timing of that. It’s like only a second or so split, and you hear them shout, gun. And the guy draws his pistol and he fires, because it’s a split second. I think there is a Supreme Court case where you have to look at it from the officer’s perspective, from there. Evan Nappen 11:13 And I can understand that. But what is disturbing is the key administration officials focusing on guns and gun owners and carry, instead of on the behavior of this person, which, arguably, is the real issue, and is what is the problem. Not having the gun. And then you combine that with, for example, Gavin Newsom, who, let’s face it, you know, he’s a Second Amendment oppressionist, right? I mean, he is. But what does he say? He says, “The Trump administration does not believe in the 2nd Amendment. Good to know.” So, okay, granted, he’s an opportunist here. But he’s actually seeing, even though we don’t believe he’s sincere, of course, but who knows? He’s seeing what’s wrong with what they’re saying. Even Newsom sees what’s wrong with their saying and then takes advantage of it in that way. Look, Representative Dave Min and Rep. Mary Peltola, one is a Democrat from California and the other Page – 4 – of 9 is a Democrat from Alaska. This is from the Politico article. They also used the moment to highlight the right to carry. Here’s their quote. “Joining the gun lobby to condemn Bill Essayli was not on my bingo card but here we are, Min said on X. “Lawfully carrying a firearm is not grounds for being killed.” So, there, look at that. A Democrat, Democrat, saying that, and Newsome even pointing out the hypocrisy of it. And here we have them really taking a terrible view of gun owners and carry. Evan Nappen 13:27 If you step back from all this, I see political opportunity, and I’ll tell you why. Because what I think would be very, very good would be to propose what we would call Pretti’s law. It’d be Pretti’s law. And what Pretti’s law would do would be to create a federal, pre-emptive right to carry in public. Going directly at the legal issue, by the way, in the Woolford case, the so-called vampire rule and other forms of public carry. We need a federal law that preempts, preempts, any state from putting forward so-called “sensitive place” laws that interfere with the right to carry that the Left has acknowledged, the Left is acknowledging in their defense of Pretti. This presents an opportunity to tie in with that national reciprocity so that you have your right to keep and bear arms respected, and we push this with the Pretti situation. Evan Nappen 14:52 In other words, why is it the Left always gets to take the situation and turn it to their advantage? Well, this is an opportunity for us to use this situation to our advantage, because you can see from what we just discussed that the Left is putting out that message. The Left is putting out the pro-Second Amendment message. The Left is seeing that carry was a right, that carry was fine for this, believe it or not, white male to be carrying. I mean, we should all be in shock that the Left is defending armed white males. Wow. But here they are. So, instead of letting this moment pass, let’s grab onto it. Let’s get a federal law that can go at and preempt, wiping out, sensitive place restrictions and getting through national reciprocity. We can do both of those things in this bill, because that is a solid focus federally on carry. That’s what we’re talking about here, and that’s what this situation highlights. Now is a chance to do federal protection of our carry rights, and it’s also a chance for the Trump administration to make clear their position in support of it as well. Here’s the common ground, folks. Here’s the common ground that this demonstrated, and I hope that someone takes advantage of it. Teddy Nappen 16:40 Also, just taking a step back on the whole situation here. The one good thing about this administration that everyone can agree on is that they listen. The one thing that they, anyone can just stop and say, like you can have disagreements on different things, but they listen. They hear what the issue is. And I get the sense that Kristi Noem and Kash Patel are not 2A. They never had the 2A mindset. They never had that. You know, people always say, oh, I’m for the Second Amendment. What does that mean? What do they actually believe and stand for, for that? And I think this is a moment for them to realize and learn what that actually stands for, for the people, for us, for what that means for us. The ability to carry and defend ourselves. Where we don’t have security teams. We don’t have, you know, the full backing of the U.S. Government to protect us every single day. So, I think this is a chance for the administration to learn, and heck, they should appoint like a gun czar, a 2A Czar. Someone to advise them on these issues. If they don’t know, don’t just go to X or Truth and post it. Ask and learn, and then you can have be more informed on the issue. Page – 5 – of 9 Evan Nappen 17:55 That’s a great idea, Teddy. It would be really good for them to do it, and I’d be happy to have that role. Speaker 1 18:01 Ha, ha, ha. Wow, yeah, man. Evan Nappen 18:07 Yep, that’s good. Well. Teddy Nappen 18:09 Yeah, he’s saying, like, all right. And then also legalize all machine guns. We’re closing down the ATF. Here’s a lot of recommendations. Evan Nappen 18:17 I’ve got them, but here is one where politically, we are seeing the other side, actually seeing it our way. And that’s an opportunity that we shouldn’t lose. That’s the point of this. Well, let me tell you about our friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is a range in Lakewood. An indoor range where both Teddy and I shoot, and we love it there. WeShoot is conveniently located right off the Parkway, and they have some cool specials I want to tell you about. They have a Smith M&P 9 M2.0 Compact ready to roll. They have that. They’re also offering the M&P 9 2.0 in Metal. So, you can have your choice in metal or polymer. They have the Vortex Triumph, which is an all new optic, right? It’s pretty cool. Vortex makes some good stuff. I have some Vortex on my guns. They also have the Rost Martin RM1C, which is a striker-fired compact pistol that is really taking the gun world by storm. You should check out the Rost Martin. It’s a really good gun. Evan Nappen 19:37 And, of course, you want to check out the WeShoot girls there. They’re featuring a number of folks, including Kristina Fernicola. Go to their website. Go to weshootusa.com. You can see all these wonderful guns, and the models posing with wonderful guns. And you will be glad that you went to look at all of that. I’m sure of it. Then make sure you check out the range at WeShoot. Go down to the range there. You can get some fantastic training. They have a great pro shop right there in Lakewood, New Jersey. weshootusa.com Evan Nappen 20:26 Also, I want to mention our friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They’ve been quite busy fighting in the courts and in the legislature in Trenton. Murphy’s gone, and we did get some new laws, of course. This is a very tough environment, but they also were able to get some changes that are critical. And I was glad to see modifications, although completely stopping when the folks have all the power, is tough, but they made a big difference. We are thankful. Because without the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs, we would have no unified voice of umbrella organization of our clubs and organizations. You need to be a member of the Association. Go to ANJRPC.org and join today. You’ll get the newsletters that are the best newsletter in the state on guns. Page – 6 – of 9 You’ll see the email alerts. You’ll know everything that’s going on when it comes to our gun rights in New Jersey. anjrpc.org Evan Nappen 21:45 This is also when I shamelessly promote my book, which is New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, all question and answer. It’s your guidebook to not becoming a GOFU in New Jersey. And man, let me tell you, so many times people call me and it’s after the fact. I’m like if they had only read my book, oy vey. We’ll still fight and defend you, but it would have been a lot better if you never had the problem to begin with. And most of my clients would agree with that, I’m afraid. So, get your copy of my book today. Go to EvanNappen.com, EvanNappen.com, and get your copy of New Jersey Gun Law. At this moment, we have Teddy who’s going to tell us about Press Checks. What have you got for us Teddy? Teddy Nappen 22:45 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. One of the things I always, I am always astounded by on the Left, because they try to act like they have knowledge and understanding of guns. We know, of course, the closeted hoplosexuals like (Josh) Sugarmann, who actually does know guns, but the vast majority of them do not know guns. I always think back, Dad, to your what was the quote, unquote “firearms expert” on fixed ammunition. Evan Nappen 23:23 Oh, gosh, yeah. Experts testifying under oath that are just flat out lying. Flat out lying. Teddy Nappen 23:32 So, yeah. And here is their new term that they’re trying to push. As I always believe in going to the, going to the gun right suppressors and see what’s their latest message? What are they pushing for? The new term that they have invented is “safeguarding”. That’s their new push. This comes out of The Trace, everyone’s favorite gun rights suppressor organization, written by Fairriona Magee. (https://www.thetrace.org/2026/01/safeguard-gun-barber-red-flag-law-suicide/) Safeguarding. “Violence prevention groups and researchers have spent years working on initiatives to get firearms out of the hands of people who may pose a danger to themselves or others.” Hmm, through the risk, through extremist protection laws, known as Red Flag. Oh, yes. So, they’ve been getting so much flack about the legalized swatting that they have created. That they’ve been pushing through these insane Red Flag laws. So, I love this. While these laws have bipartisan support, oh, from a bunch of RINOs that are anti-gun and don’t believe in Second Amendment rights, but now the Second Amendment groups have launched a concerted attack on Red Flag laws in the court system. Gee, I wonder why. Evan Nappen 24:52 No due process. Teddy Nappen 24:53 Yeah, no due process. You get put in, you get locked up, you get labeled and all. Robbed. Firearms stolen and your rights and your life destroyed. Other than that. Page – 7 – of 9 Evan Nappen 25:03 Yeah. Teddy Nappen 25:04 So, in this supercharged political climate, what are the other options? Well, we have it for you. Safeguarding. The process of taking, temporarily taking, control of someone else’s guns, if they have risk of suicide or harming someone else without involving the criminal justice system. So, what does that mean? That means, okay, if you think your friend may want to hurt themselves or hurt others, just simply say, hey, man, why don’t I take your guns? Let me just keep them in my house. I think you’re going through a rough patch. I’m going to take your guns. These ideas are somewhat analogous with laws that allow people to temporarily ban themselves from buying guns. So, Dad, I’m pretty sure they just advocated for someone to commit a crime in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 25:59 In New Jersey that would be absolutely unlawful because of the other anti-gun laws that they helped push, such as Universal Background Check. So, how do you temporarily give guns to somebody when there’s no transfer of guns allowed unless you go through a dealer and go through the permitting system and go through the entire process? You can’t just say to your buddy in New Jersey, hey, let me just take your guns. No, you can’t do it. It’s got to go through a dealer. You’ve got to do all the paperwork, the NICS check, the whole bit. So, good luck with that. Good luck with that. Because if you listen to what they are telling you to do, you will be committing a felony level offense, multiple felony level offenses, in New Jersey. There is no temporary transfer. This is, in fact, officially, this week’s GOFU, Teddy. Evan Nappen 27:03 As far as I’m concerned, that’s the GOFU. Do not ever temporarily give your guns to somebody else in New Jersey, except under two very narrow circumstances. If you’re at the range, there is a law in New Jersey that allows you, only while the person’s in your presence, to let them try your gun at the range. Or if you’re hunting, and everybody’s legal and licensed and they’re there in your presence while hunting. That’s it. But that’s it. That’s the only temporary transfers allowed to adults legally. There is no provision in New Jersey that allows you to temporarily transfer your firearms or to take somebody else’s firearms temporarily because somebody might want to harm themselves, or you perceive that they’re thinking about harming themselves, or they tell you, hey, I’m thinking about harming myself. Or I would just feel better if you had my gun. Again, none of that flies in New Jersey. None of it. It is completely a violation of New Jersey gun laws. A violation of many of the laws that the gun rights oppressors have pushed to put in place in New Jersey. The reason you cannot do what they’re suggesting in New Jersey is because of their anti-Second Amendment gun laws themselves. So they pass and force the passage of these laws through their fellow comrades in the legislature and then give advice on how to violate the very laws, because they’re so clueless as to what they are doing in terms of the actual effect, the actual effect, it has on real people and the real situation. Teddy Nappen 28:59 So, I love how they end this article too. They get this expert, because they always have to. They always lean on the logical fallacy of, oh, I’m an expert, so trust me on this. Catherine Barber out of the Harvard Page – 8 – of 9 Injury Control Research Center, gee, that doesn’t sound biased. She makes this long winded argument, making it so this sounds like if you’re a gun owner, oh, you’re mentally ill, even though gun owners are more than twice at the risk of non gun owners from taking their own lives. And they equated where we should treat Red Flag like suicide prevention. Just this long winded expression, trying to make it seem like, oh, that’s right, if you own a gun, you probably have mental illness. That is the level of disgusting nature that these people are. And they try to argue that. Evan Nappen 29:56 Right. So they, so that. So, this person’s saying, if you own a gun, you’re mentally ill, and we have these administration folks and this U.S. attorney saying, essentially, if you have a gun, you’re a threat immediately to law enforcement. I mean, they’re just making these assumptions on both sides that are just strictly out of bounds when we’re talking about a Constitutional right, a Constitutional right. I mean, just make believe it’s the First Amendment instead of the Second Amendment. Anyone that freely speaks their mind is mentally ill. Anybody who freely talks to police is justified in being shot, and that doesn’t. Neither those statements make any sense, right? Evan Nappen 30:44 Well, we’re talking the Second Amendment. That’s a Constitutional right. It’s not a second class right, either. Just like the First Amendment is a right, and this right is supposed to be guaranteed by the Government. Guaranteed by the Government. Not given by the Government. It needs to get respected and put in the proper perspective of being treated as a right. It’s not a mental illness. It’s not a threat to law enforcement, intrinsically a threat. This all is based on the individual’s behavior. That’s the point, and that’s what the focus has to be on. But yet it’s so easy to just look at it as a symbol, the symbol. Americans always had this thing about going after the symbols. I mean, why were switchblades banned in the ’50s? Well, they were the symbol of juvenile delinquency, right? I mean, what? Why were machine guns banned, oh, the symbol. It was symbolism. It’s just this constant moral crusade by picking an item, an item to go after. We need to look at actions of people. What is not malum prohibitums, where a legislative body just decides this should be banned or that should be banned. But instead, we focus on the malum and say things that are wrong within themselves, and those things are the actions and wrongdoings by people. That’s where laws have to focus. Teddy Nappen 32:41 I think it definitely needs to be a wake up call. Because, look, I understand, and hopefully we do get common ground. And you know what, if Pretti’s law comes into play and we get enough the Democrats to jump on because they want to, you know, look like they’re 2A affiliates or whatever, which, by the way, anytime you hear the news, the CNN, MSNBC, use the words 2A or democracy. You look at the little end, it’ll say, TM, trademark. It’s their version of the Second Amendment, their version of democracy. That is what they always argue. It’s rules for thee, not from rules for thee, not for me. That is how the Left operate. So, just remember that every time they’re trying to coax the Left, the right against the administration. Evan Nappen 33:30 Well, Pretti’s law will have an interesting effect, because it’ll put the Left on the spot, on the vote. Do you support being able to carry a firearm in public the way he did, where you’re claiming to? Well now Page – 9 – of 9 you’re going to have to put your money where your mouth is. So, to speak, you have to vote. You better vote, I think. And within the same question, wait gets made to the other side. Do you support the Second Amendment or not? So, this is why, politically, it’s an opportunity. Teddy Nappen 34:05 I think we joked that Trump should come out against carry, which would force the Left. Like, I think we joked about that exact thing there. You’re right. He should come out against machine guns. Evan Nappen 34:19 Yeah, absolutely. Okay, because actually, the next thing you know, you’ve got Newsom putting out and Democrat Congresspersons putting out, pro-gun statements, pro-Second Amendment statements. I mean, it’s well, that’s why it’s opportunity time, and hopefully someone will take advantage of it. Evan Nappen 34:48 Well, this is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 35:01 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E275_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America's Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it's no wonder he's become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It's Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham's Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  talkback@gun.lawyer Join Evan's InnerCircleHere's your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

Lees: Spreuke 10: 22-32. Fokus: Spreuke 10: 24. Hoe om op God se spesifieke beloftes te wag. ·       In ‘n verhouding met God deur Christus, plaas die Heilige Gees baie keer sy wil as ‘n begeerte of droom in ons harte.  ·       Beweeg van geloof tot verwagting (met dade agter jou geloof), dan sal die Heilige Gees jou bonatuurlik neem tot vervulling van sy spesifieke beloftes aan jou.  Vir nadenke en gesprek by selgroepe en huisgodsdiens:·       Gee ‘n beskrywing van die begeertes wat God belowe om te vervul. ·       Hoe kom spesifieke beloftes van God vir jou lewe tot stand? ·       Wat is die verskil tussen glo en verwag? ·       Wat is die regte manier om op God se spesifieke beloftes te wag?

Gordon Gee framed his defense of Les Wexner as a matter of loyalty, philanthropy, and presumed ignorance, insisting that Wexner was blindsided by Jeffrey Epstein and had no meaningful awareness of the abuse orbiting his former confidant. Gee leaned heavily on Wexner's decades of charitable giving and institutional support, portraying him as a benefactor whose generosity and civic engagement should outweigh uncomfortable questions. In doing so, Gee treated proximity to Epstein as an unfortunate coincidence rather than a relationship that lasted years, involved extraordinary financial power, and raised obvious red flags long before the public reckoning.What makes Gee's defense so troubling is not just what he said, but what he refused to confront. By defaulting to character references and donation tallies, Gee sidestepped the basic issue of responsibility that comes with wealth, access, and sustained association. His comments implied that elite benefactors deserve the benefit of the doubt denied to everyone else, and that institutional gratitude can substitute for scrutiny. Instead of demanding accountability proportional to influence, Gee lowered the bar, effectively arguing that if someone gives enough money and claims shock afterward, the questions should stop. For critics, that posture doesn't protect the truth—it protects the donor class, and it reinforces the very culture of deference that allowed Epstein's network to operate in plain sight for so long.to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Former OSU President Gee defends Les Wexner amid probe into billionaire's ties to Epstein | WOSU Public Media

Gordon Gee framed his defense of Les Wexner as a matter of loyalty, philanthropy, and presumed ignorance, insisting that Wexner was blindsided by Jeffrey Epstein and had no meaningful awareness of the abuse orbiting his former confidant. Gee leaned heavily on Wexner's decades of charitable giving and institutional support, portraying him as a benefactor whose generosity and civic engagement should outweigh uncomfortable questions. In doing so, Gee treated proximity to Epstein as an unfortunate coincidence rather than a relationship that lasted years, involved extraordinary financial power, and raised obvious red flags long before the public reckoning.What makes Gee's defense so troubling is not just what he said, but what he refused to confront. By defaulting to character references and donation tallies, Gee sidestepped the basic issue of responsibility that comes with wealth, access, and sustained association. His comments implied that elite benefactors deserve the benefit of the doubt denied to everyone else, and that institutional gratitude can substitute for scrutiny. Instead of demanding accountability proportional to influence, Gee lowered the bar, effectively arguing that if someone gives enough money and claims shock afterward, the questions should stop. For critics, that posture doesn't protect the truth—it protects the donor class, and it reinforces the very culture of deference that allowed Epstein's network to operate in plain sight for so long.to contact me:bobbycapucci@protonmail.comsource:Former OSU President Gee defends Les Wexner amid probe into billionaire's ties to Epstein | WOSU Public MediaBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-epstein-chronicles--5003294/support.

Every day we turn up and, to our amazement, our passes still work. It's only a matter of time before we're turned away, possibly by Wally Masur himself. In this scintillating and erotic new episode, Mike (@comedymikegoldstein) and blow-in host Sam Taunton (@samtaunton) trade barbs and Australian Open observations. You'll hear them say things like — but not limited to — 'Golly gosh, Lorenzo Musetti had his heart ripped out'. They'll also ask probing questions like 'Gee whiz, what's with all the straight-sets matches?' They also massacre a Neil Diamond song, which is just horrendous for all involved. Oh, and we talk to USA turbo-hunk tennis dude, Ben Shelton. Are you not TENTERTAINED (tennis-entertained)?! Don't answer that. Anyway, as our sponsor would say: 'Get some bubbles up ya!' Listen to The AO Wrap to stay up to date with the latest results each day of the main draw. AusOpen.comiHeartApple PodcastsSpotifyYouTube See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

WA bill that would bar most police from wearing face coverings clears Senate / Lawmakers push to close probate loophole  / New Alex Pretti video // Holy coincidence! Luke Ducey joins us to talk the latest Seahawks conspiracy // Six years of Gee and Ursula: Remembering the meatball story

Gee was president of Ohio State University twice, and now he's back for a third time in a consulting role.

Gee was president of Ohio State University twice, and now he's back for a third time in a consulting role.

URSULA'S TOP STORIES: THE SEAHAWKS ARE IN THE SUPER BOWL // Gee was on the field after the Seahawks big win! // WE NEED TO TALK 

WHAT'S NEW AT 10: GUEST: John Urquhart on the shooting in Minneapolis over the weekend // Gee was on the field after the Seahawks big win! // SCENARIOS!

Air Week: January 26-February 1, 2026 George Goldner, Pt. 3 – Gone & End Records It’s part 3 of our 3 part series on record man, George Goldner. He is said to have had the “golden ear” for hit records and songwriter Jerry Leiber even complimented his talent for picking hit songs by saying that Goldner had, “the musical taste of a fourteen-year-old-girl.” Born to Jewish immigrants in 1919, Goldner’s first love was Latino dance music and he began his career by opening night clubs and starting Tico Records, a Latino label in 1948. By 1953, he was interested in Rhythm & Blues and began releasing records under the Rama subsidiary. In early 1954, he set up Gee Records and scored a huge hit in early ’56 with The Teenagers, “Why Do Fools Fall In Love.” By mid-’57, due to his gambling debts, Goldner sold Tico, Rama and Gee to alleged mobster Morris Levy. This week, we will take a close look at Goldner’s last R&B labels that he would run independently: Gone & End Records. Both new labels did well with Gone scoring hits with NY vocal group, the Dubs and Goldner-arranged instrumental “7-11 (Mambo No. 5)” by the Gone All Stars featuring Buddy Lucas on tenor sax. End soon followed with million-sellers from The Chantels, The Imperials and The Flamingos. Both labels proved that Goldner still had the magic ear for picking the music teenagers wanted to hear and buy, but eventually both labels would face the same fate as Goldner’s early record companies. You’ll get the full story of Gone and End Records and the finale of George Goldner on this week’s “Juke In The Back.” LISTEN BELOW

Ons ervaring van menslike verhoudings is waarskynlik die bron van ons grootste vreugde én seer in die lewe. Die landskap van verhoudings maak ons bewus van ons diep soeke na konneksie, maar ook ons diep worsteling met belonging. Verhouding is egter ook 'n beskrywing van wie God is: Vader, Seun en Gee in verhouding met mekaar. Hoe kan verhouding 'n kontoerlyn word wat ons prentjie van God verhelder, definisie gee aan spiritualiteit en ons nooi tot betekenisvolle konneksie met mekaar? Ons probeer hierdie vraag antwoord – dit sal goed wees om jou daar te sien. Luister hier na die klankopname of op die potgooi-platform van jou keuse. . . Of kyk hier saam:

We've got some leftovers from the holidays. Let's pull them out of the fridge and answer them once and for all! Is a French dip REALLY a dip? How early is too early to put up your Christmas tree? How long can you drink eggnog or wear your holiday boxers before your partner falls out of love with you? And FINALLY: are zombies the scariest monsters because they're REAL? All this - plus an ad for Gee, Your Hair Smells Terrific! Shampoo - and more, on today's HOLIDAY LEFTOVERS edition of Judge John Hodgman!BROOKLYN! Join Judge John Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse Thorn LIVE at The Bell House for NIGHT COURT (no, not that one)! Get your tickets here: Friday, March 6, Saturday, March 7Have a question that you can't settle? No dispute is too small for the honorable Judge John Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse Thorn! Submit your cases directly to the court at: https://maximumfun.org/jjhoFollow Judge John Hodgman on:YouTube: @judgejohnhodgmanpodInstagram: @judgejohnhodgmanTikTok: @judgejohnhodgmanpodBluesky: @judgejohnhodgmanReddit: r/maximumfunPlease consider donating to Al Otro Lado. Al Otro Lado provides legal assistance and humanitarian aid to refugees, deportees, and other migrants trapped at the US-MX border. Donate at alotrolado.org/letsdosomething.  Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Become a member to unlock special bonus episodes, discounts on our merch, and more by joining us at: maximumfun.org/join!

GUEST: MN State Senator Erin Maye Quade shares the stark truth about ICE invading your area // Gee & Ursula respond to MN Senator // SCENARIOS!

David Gee, a veteran CISO, CIO, board advisor, and author, joins Ann Johnson, CVP of Cybersecurity, Microsoft, on this week's episode of Afternoon Cyber Tea. Drawing on decades of experience and insights from his books, Gee explores the gap between theory and reality for security leaders, the role of imposter syndrome in professional growth, and why embracing discomfort is essential to effective leadership. The conversation examines how CISOs can balance risk management with business enablement, reset expectations with boards and executives, and build resilient, team-driven security cultures. Gee also shares perspectives on mentorship, long-term sustainability in the role, and how the CISO must evolve from a control-focused operator to a strategic influencer in an era shaped by AI, regulation, and constant change.    Resources:  View David Gee on LinkedIn  View Ann Johnson on LinkedIn     Related Microsoft Podcasts:   Microsoft Threat Intelligence Podcast   The BlueHat Podcast    Uncovering Hidden Risks           Discover and follow other Microsoft podcasts at microsoft.com/podcasts      Afternoon Cyber Tea with Ann Johnson is produced by Microsoft, Hangar Studios and distributed as part of N2K media network.

Episode 273-Warning: Critical Gun Law Alert  Also Available OnSearchable Podcast Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode Transcript Gun Lawyer — Episode 273 Transcript SUMMARY KEYWORDS New Jersey gun laws, accidental discharge, criminalization, reckless discharge, felony consequences, gun ownership rights, self-defense, insurance coverage, Second Amendment, gun safety, gun dealers, international disarmament, gun control, gun owner education, legal challenges. SPEAKERS Speaker 2, Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:17 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:19 And I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:20 And welcome to Gun Lawyer. Well, folks, the New Jersey legislature has done it again. They have passed some atrocious gun laws, and I need to make all of you aware of one, particularly, that is very much a threat. It is something that’s going to affect many, many gun owners, and it is not being talked about in the general media, of course, because of how they write these laws in such a sneaky, underhanded way. But this law is going to impact all of us, frankly. And the potential is there, under this law, to not only take away gun owners’ rights to have guns, but to turn us all into felons at any time, simply based on an accident. That’s right, an accident. Evan Nappen 01:31 Because what New Jersey legislature’s both houses have passed, and I expect, very shortly, the governor will sign, is Assembly Bill, 4976. (https://pub.njleg.gov/Bills/2024/A5000/4976_R2.PDF) And what this bill does is it criminalizes Accidental Discharges (ADs). Now, an accidental discharge is when your gun goes off, accidentally, either by what some folks call an uncommanded discharge or an accidental discharge. But it is something that can happen, and although we have to always be very careful, circumstances can be such that a mistake can be made. I mean, we’re all human, and mistakes can happen. And unfortunately, you know, I see it in the practice, and I get accidental discharge cases all the time where individuals make a mistake and a gun goes off unintended. It happens. Now sometimes it happens because of the actual mechanical flaws to a firearm and that can be because of a gun’s design. It can even be due to circumstances where a firearm can go off from the slightest touch. Evan Nappen 03:08 Now you may not be aware of this, but years and years ago, I know of a case where an individual had a shotgun that this fellow had kept loaded. One of those single shot, top-breaker type shotguns. You know, like the old kind of like the toppers, the H and R Toppers, and what have you, similar to that. It Page – 1 – of 11may even have been one. I don’t know. But it’s one of those old single shot shotguns. And for probably 50 years, that gun had remained loaded with a shell in it. At one point, there were folks that were causing all kinds of problems in this guy’s yard, and he wanted to scare them off. He didn’t want to shoot them, and he put the gun out of, pointed the gun out the window, and boom. It went off, and he never pulled the trigger. He absolutely never pulled the trigger. There was no hit to the primer of the shell when it went off. And what has happened was, in this particular design of the gun, the firing pin had been pushing against the primer because the hammer was down and it didn’t have a firing pin block. And for like 50 years, this gun sat there, sensitizing the primer so that the slightest touch, you know, just the right jolt, without having to actually pull the trigger, made it go off. So, a gun can actually even do that under those extraordinary circumstances. Evan Nappen 04:57 But normally, an accidental discharge or uncommanded discharge that we encounter is because somebody believed, honestly believed, their gun was unloaded. And it ends up, of course, that it wasn’t. Now this can happen because somebody thought they checked it and maybe even did check. But then, with a magazine in and the slide going forward, a round loads, but they didn’t realize that it loaded, because they checked that it was unloaded. And sure enough, there’s a round there. I mean, I’ve seen every combination of error that could happen and a discharge can occur. And, of course, we know the rules, always point in a safe direction, etc. Make sure your gun is unloaded. Double, triple check to make sure that the chamber is empty. That there’s no magazine, and there’s no live ammo. I mean, all those things that we do. But accidents can happen, just like in a motor vehicle. We drive as safe as we possibly can, but people still have accidents. And what New Jersey has done in this bill is essentially criminalize an accident so that individuals will be looking at what is, in all likelihood, felony level charges. And they structured this bill in just a sneaky, evil, devious way. It’s going to have great impact, and it’s going to create, I think, unintended consequences. Evan Nappen 06:40 Now, as gun owners, we have to understand how we have to behave if any of us ever are so unfortunate as to have an uncommanded or accidental discharge. So, the law talks about “recklessly” having a discharge. “Reckless” in criminal law means, you know, with a conscious disregard of a known risk, okay? Criminal laws can have recklessly or reckless as a standard, as opposed to something being intentional, right? So, if you intentionally meant to pull the trigger, that’s intentional. Reckless could still be you didn’t intend to do it. But if there was that conscious disregard of that known risk and it ended up discharged, then you could argue that it’s reckless. So, reckless is kind of a standard where it’s not that traditional mens rea, your mental and your mental state of having that intention to have the gun fire. Reckless has been in our criminal law for a long time, and reckless conduct is something that’s out there, like reckless driving. I’m sure that you have heard of that. Evan Nappen 08:05 But what they’re doing here is even more devious by using the word “reckless”. So, what now is being prohibited? And I’m going to read this to you so you can see how they’ve done this. It says, a person commits a disorderly person’s offense. Now that sounds like, okay. A disorderly persons offense in New Jersey is equivalent to a misdemeanor. It’s not a felony. So, you’re saying, well, first of all, this is not creating a felony. It’s creating a disorderly persons offense, right? It sounds like it’s, you know, Page – 2 – of 11apparently, trying to be reasonable. But trust me, folks, it isn’t. I’m going to show you why. “A person commits a disorderly persons offense by recklessly discharging a firearm.” Okay, so at this point they’re saying, well, it’s just a low level offense, and it’s for recklessly discharge. You know, we’ve conscientiously disregarded a known risk. Okay, so it started out sounding, you know, not great, but okay. It’s not. It shouldn’t affect a lot of folks, and luckily, if it does, it’s still a misdemeanor. And, of course, it requires that recklessness. So, that sounds all good. Evan Nappen 09:22 Let me start again and read you, but wait until you hear the rest of it. A person commits a disorderly persons offense by recklessly discharging a firearm “using live ammunition rounds”. Well, okay, that’s good to know. A blank gun isn’t a reckless discharge, but you know you’re firing a blank. No live ammo. Okay. So, if I’m firing dead ammo or ammo that’s not live, then that’s not a reckless discharge. Well, good. How do I get a discharge with ammo that’s not live? I don’t know how that’s even going to happen. But okay, they throw that in, probably more as subterfuge and, you know, smoke and mirrors. But again, here we go. “A person commits a disorderly persons offense by recklessly discharging a firearm using live ammunition rounds unlawfully . . .” Okay, unlawfully. So, you’re unlawful. “. . . or without a lawful purpose.” Whoops, wait a minute. “Without a lawful purpose.” You commit a disorderly persons offense by recklessly discharging a firearm without lawful purpose. Evan Nappen 10:35 Except that a second conviction for such an offense constitutes a crime of the fourth degree. Well, a crime is a felony, and that’s a fourth degree. It’s a year and a half in jail. And a third or subsequent conviction is a third degree and that’s five years in State Prison. Okay. So, you may even read this part and say, well, it’s still arguably, weirdly reckless, maybe. But it’s for discharging a firearm without lawful purpose, but at least it’s a disorderly persons offense. And I, boy, if we do it once, I sure wouldn’t think I’d do it again. So, why is this such a problem, you know. Evan Nappen 11:09 But oh, well, wait, wait, wait. We’re not done yet. Because then it says, if a person commits a violation under this section, you’re charged with a crime one degree higher than what ordinarily would be charged for such an offense when the violation occurs within 100 yards, 100 yards, folks. Not 100 feet. A football field’s worth of distance of an occupied structure. Oh, what’s an occupied structure? Any building, room, ship, vessel, car, vehicle, or airplane, or a place adopted for overnight accommodations of persons or for carrying on business therein. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait a minute! An occupied structure includes a car or vehicle, and it doesn’t even mean it has to be occupied. It means even a vehicle or a building or a room, and it has to be within 100 yards, a football field, of a car. If there’s a car driving by within 100 yards where the accidental discharge takes place. If you’re in your own home? I mean, this is basically every accidental discharge. You will probably be within 100 yards of a car or a building or a room, or hotel or whatever, or an airplane. Man, even if the airplane is flying over the sky, I don’t know. I mean, this is nuts. Evan Nappen 12:55 So, if the violation occurs within 100 yards of a “structure”, guess what? It’s no longer that disorderly persons offense. It’s bumped instantly to the fourth degree, felony level offense. Up to a year and a half Page – 3 – of 11in State Prison, and now you’re going to be a convicted felon. That’s if your gun discharged for not having, without a lawful purpose. Oh, you mean like an accident? Yeah! Like an accident. An accident because you didn’t have a lawful purpose. Did you lawfully have a purposeful accident? No, that’s silliness in a nutshell. So, what it means now is essentially any accidental discharge is a felony in New Jersey, and you can face State Prison time of at least a year and a half, unless it’s going to be enhanced even more based on these other factors. And as a felon, you lose your gun rights for the entire United States. Evan Nappen 14:12 And even if it’s kept at the misdemeanor, a so-called disorderly persons level, they’re still going to go after your gun license and your gun rights. They’ll claim, under Chapter 58-3 of the licensing law, that you’re somehow a danger to public health, safety, welfare. You think if you’re going to have a criminal charge, a criminal offense charged here of accidental discharge, where they’re classifying it as reckless because it went for a “an unlawful purpose”. Like I said, I don’t know how you have a lawful purpose accident. And it was somehow within 100 yards of any car or room, which made it originally a felony even, right? Felony level in New Jersey. You’re getting your license and your guns confiscated and taken and face prosecution over this insane law. Evan Nappen 15:17 Now, this is the consequences of this bill, right? But that’s just the consequences in the law itself, like the penalty you may face and licensing problems. But what it also means is that upon any accidental discharge, folks, any, you immediately, now, immediately, have a Fifth Amendment right against self- incrimination, and you’re going to have to stand by that. Because I know in many of the cases we’ve seen, someone had an accidental discharge, and it may have gone through their wall. It may have gone to a neighbor’s house. It may have not whatever. But if you react, if you call the police, if you try to find out what happened, any type, you’re getting criminally charged. You have a right to say nothing. You have an absolute right, a Fifth Amendment right to remain silent, because you will end up incriminating yourself. This is going to mean that any New Jersey gun owner who has an AD or an uncommanded accidental discharge needs to immediately take the Fifth and seek counsel, the Sixth Amendment. Just call your attorney and don’t say anything to anyone. Do not make any statements to law enforcement or anybody. And, you know, this is a shame. Because what if that round actually caused injury to somebody? Teddy Nappen 16:59 Actually take it a step further. Evan Nappen 17:01 Think about it. You’re gonna incriminate yourself. You gotta absolutely. Go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 17:07 Take it a step further. Imagine instead of “gun”, this was “car”. I asked. I was in. I got into a car accident. So, therefore, all car accidents are felonies, where there is nowhere. Were you back? Were you 100 feet from your driveway? Was there a car driving by? Did you back into that car? Felony! You are now a felon because of that. And don’t tell me it’s the firearm versus the car! Because the car is a Page – 4 – of 11two ton steel death machine that kills more people than firearms do. So, it’s that level of argument, the utter draconian insanity that they have created here. Where from an accident, an actual accident, God forbid. Evan Nappen 17:54 An accident. That is right. Teddy Nappen 17:56 You are guilty until proven innocent. Evan Nappen 17:59 And wait. Let me say this. This has been put out there as a possible problem for self-defenders. And that’s actually not completely accurate, because there’s an exemption here that says it’s an affirmative defense, if you fired your gun in self-defense. Okay. Affirmative defense means the burden is on you to prove that you acted in self-defense. Then they’ll say, okay, that wasn’t a reckless discharge. But even the fact that the legislature has to put in there that if you act in self-defense, it’s an affirmative defense. Well, wait a minute. Why is it an affirmative defense? Because it wouldn’t have been reckless if it was intentional. Why do we even need that? So, in other words, the legislature itself knows that they’ve manipulated this law to simply be discharge for unlawful purpose, period. If you didn’t have a lawful purpose when your gun went off, it’s felony level if it’s within 100 yards of a car, or a room, or a building. Insanity. Evan Nappen 19:05 And as you say, Teddy, it would be like making every car accident, any fender bender that you have, you become charged with a felony. New Jersey has done that to gun owners now. Any accident, any accidental discharge, you’re going to face these criminal charges. This is going to, you’re going to end up in the system. If you have an AD, you’re getting charged. And now we’re going to have to fight this out on an offense that is essentially strict liability. That is the way they’ve set it up. Couching it and hiding it under so-called reckless, recklessly. But when they actually write it, they put the recklessly with the little bonus of having “without a lawful purpose”. This is nuts. Nuts. Nuts. Evan Nappen 19:58 I’m telling you right now the cases we get, it’s going to be crazy, crazy and a problem. So, folks, be extra careful. This is bad news. It has passed both houses, and the Governor, I’m sure, will sign it very shortly, if he hasn’t signed it already. And now gun owners are at extreme risk under this law. Teddy Nappen 20:24 I just thought of another one, too. What if you’re a first time shooter and you go to a range course, you’re in a range, a gun range learning, and the gun accidentally goes off because you’re brand new to firearms? You’re now a convicted felon. No discretion. Evan Nappen 20:44 Oh, well. It was near a room. That’s right, no discretion, and anybody that has that AD. So, again, it’s designed to disenfranchise gun owners of Second Amendment rights. And by the way, you may not be Page – 5 – of 11able to then get even insurance coverage. Because if it’s criminalized over what you did, it’s not anymore. Now, you’re talking about behavior where they can claim it’s a criminal act. It’s a criminal act, okay? And again, you may depending on your policy, depending on what actually the injuries and damage, you may not even have coverage. The insurance companies will use it to deny you coverage. I’m sure of that. That’s their job, as it normally is, anyway. To try to figure out how to deny coverage. Well, they’ve just given them that ability on the civil side to further make it harder for you. It’s jeopardizing gun rights, and it’s looking at creating incarceration at felony level for gun owners. It’s outrageous, and it really is something that I’m sure we’re going to see major, major impact. And then that’s not the only fun. Go ahead, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 22:04 I was just curious on the constitutionality of it? Because they’ve made, there must be some avenue. Because it’s very, like they’re giving no discretion? And just saying. Evan Nappen 22:16 Nope. Teddy Nappen 22:16 It’s automatic. There’s no constitutional challenge. Evan Nappen 22:20 Well, I guess there could always be a constitutional challenge. But what’s going to happen is it’s going to have to be the fight. The real fight is going to be over, maybe an argument of, was there a conscious, conscientious disregard, or conscious disregard of a known risk. But the other side will argue that as soon as you have a gun with ammo, you have a known risk. I mean, a firearm, and that’s their entire anti-Second Amendment strategy. Teddy Nappen 22:43 When you deal with guns, you do so at your peril. Evan Nappen 22:53 Right! And that’s New Jersey case law, right there. So, they’re saying, hey, you do it at your peril. You took a known risk because you possessed a gun, even. You can well see a New Jersey jury buying that argument. This is nuts, and gun owners, beware, beware, beware, beware. And like I said, this isn’t the only shenanigan that occurred in Trenton. They also signed S1425. (https://pub.njleg.gov/Bills/2024/S1500/1425_R1.PDF) Now, this is actually law. This law, real quick, specifically applies just to dealers. Just to New Jersey dealers. How nice. They have their own very special law now. This law says, “A licensed dealer who sells or transfers a firearm to a person when the dealer knows or reasonably should know that person intends to sell, transfer, assign, or otherwise dispose of that firearm to a person who is disqualified from possessing a firearm under State or federal law is guilty of a crime of the second degree.” That means up to 10 years in State Prison. They have a minimum mandatory period of three and a half years, and they made it a second degree. This is insane. Page – 6 – of 11Evan Nappen 24:03 If you’re a dealer in New Jersey, they can claim that you reasonably should have known that a gun you transferred to somebody was going to be transferred to somebody who was disqualified from possessing. Let me give you an example. You sell a Red Rider BB gun. That’s a firearm under New Jersey law. And if you reasonably should have known that that person was going to let their kid have that BB gun, you’re looking at a second degree charge here, Dealers. Yeah for that BB gun. Because as long as the state can show you reasonably should know that, that the person intended to transfer it to someone who was disqualified, who would be arguably that minor, unless it’s under a strict exemption. I mean, this is the kind of pathways being cut here. How do you know or reasonably should know? What is that reasonably should have known nonsense? Evan Nappen 25:03 I mean, that’s again, 12 people on a jury are the ones who’s going to decide whether reasonably you should know. All the law says, “. . . ‘reasonably should know’ means that a person reasonably should know a fact when, under the circumstances, a person of reasonable prudence and competence would ascertain or know that fact.” Oh, that’s a that’s so crystal clear. Huh? Real, crystal clear. Now what it means is 12 people who aren’t smart enough to avoid jury duty are going to decide whether the dealer should have known on that gun sale. And if they decide otherwise, the dealer is looking at a minimum mandatory sentence on a second degree crime, which carries up to 10 years in State Prison. Okay? That’s what they’re doing. Focused on New Jersey dealers. Do you think they want to put every dealer in New Jersey out of business? I do. And that’s the other bonus law that’s actually signed into law. It’s ripe for abuse, folks. Beware. It is just atrocious what’s going on in New Jersey. Evan Nappen 26:07 Let me tell you about our fight. You know, we are in this fight. We constantly, we’ve tried to fight these things. New Jersey is an extremely tough environment. We’re going to see court challenges, even more court challenges, and it’s our state Association that’s going to be heading the fight. I’m sure we’re going to see a constitutional challenge to this so-called Accidental Discharge bill and the same over what they’re looking to do to dealers. And it’s ANJRPC, the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs at the forefront, fighting for our rights. They’re the umbrella organization of gun clubs in New Jersey, and you can join as an individual member. You really need to. You’ll be sent email alerts, and you’ll be told what’s going on. And you know, we’re able to get changes made with pressure, but most importantly, our salvation seems to be in the judicial fight in the courts. The Association is there as we speak. This is an extremely tough environment in New Jersey, the toughest in America, where the oppression of Second Amendment rights is second to none. New Jersey wins the prize for Second Amendment oppression, and it’s the Association there at the forefront. You need to be a member. Go to anjrpc.org and join today. Be part of the solution. It’s really important that you do that. Evan Nappen 27:43 I’d also like to talk about our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot is an indoor range in Lakewood, easily accessible, off the Parkway. It’s where Teddy and I both shoot, and we both qualified. It’s where we got our CCARE and where we get our training. We love WeShoot. That’s the place to shoot. It’s a place you can shoot. They have a wonderful facility, a great pro shop, and great instructors. You’ve got to check out their website, magnificent photography there. And they run all kinds of great deals and Page – 7 – of 11specials, and they have all the top state of the art equipment. Check out weshootusa.com. weshootusa.com. You’ll be glad you did. It is a great resource for us to have a range right there in Central New Jersey that is as professional and modern as WeShoot. Go to weshootusa.com and check them out. You will be thrilled, just like Teddy and I. Well, that’s where we shoot. It’s what we love. You’ll love it too. Evan Nappen 29:00 Let me also mention my book, New Jersey Gun Law. It’s the Bible of New Jersey gun law. I’m working on the update from what I just told you today. So, the free update will be coming out, including the 2026 Comprehensive Update. We’re going to look at and add in all the new laws that’ll be coming out shortly. So, if you have the book, make sure you scan the QR cover. The QR code on the cover. Join my free private subscriber base, and you’ll get notice of the updates that are forthcoming. You can buy the book at EvanNappen.com. That’s right, www.EvanNappen.com. Go to EvanNappen.com and get the big orange book today. You’ll be glad you did. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, all Question and Answer, designed to make it as user friendly as possible. I try to make it so you can navigate these treacherous waters of Second Amendment oppression in New Jersey. So, go to EvanNappen.com and get your book. Teddy, what do you have for us today in Press Checks? Teddy Nappen 30:15 Well, as you know, Press Checks are always free. While you’re talking about the utter insanity that is New Jersey, there’s one positive bit of news. It’s kind of been, you know, from the entire news cycle of everything they try to cover. There’s one thing that kind of slipped under the cracks that some people did pick up on. And it caught my eye. I was like, wait a second, I remember this. So, President Trump has withdrawn from the UN Register of Conventional Arms. (https://gunrights.org/united-states- withdraws-from-united-nations-register-of-conventional-arms/) That treaty. Now, I remember growing up as a kid, Dad, you told me, always keep an eye out if there are blue helmets walking down the street. Evan Nappen 31:01 Yeah, that’s right, that blue helmet day came, if that ever was to come. Yep. Teddy Nappen 31:08 And oh, I remember you telling me about that treaty. And you know that stupid, you know, the UN has always been an anti-gun organization, with that stupid, bent revolver they have. Evan Nappen 31:20 Yeah, the revolver with a barrel and a pretzel knot. (https://dam.media.un.org/archive/Gift-of- Luxembourg-to-the-United-Nations-2AM9LOQORWK.html) I mean, look at folks. It’s a revolver, by the way. It’s not an AK, you know. It’s not an AR. It’s not in an “assault firearm”. No, no. It’s a freaking revolver with a barrel in a pretzel knot there. Gee, who are the primary possessors of revolvers? I wonder. Is that paramilitary organizations? No. Terrorist, radicalized wackos? No. A revolver. Let me see. Oh, you mean, like average citizens? Wow, hmm. Interesting. Page – 8 – of 11Teddy Nappen 32:02 But what I remember that being back, you know, where this was a big fear. Where it was the giant arms treaty, where they were trying, I think it wasn’t ratified by Obama, but that was that insane policy to try, even. The UN even actually has an Office of Disarmament. (https://disarmament.unoda.org/en/our- work/conventional-arms/legal-instruments/arms-trade-treaty) That’s actually their whole like deal. What they try to push for. Now, they cloak it in like militarily. If you actually go to the website, this was from the gunrights.org. (https://gunrights.org/united-states-withdraws-from-united-nations-register-of- conventional-arms/) The National Association of Gun Rights put out the article, and they provide the link where you can go on to the UN website. You can see their register of their whole charter on the UN, and it goes into they brag about it. We’ve recorded and captured 90% of the global arms trade. By the way, this was supposed to be about, you know, tanks, armored carriers. You know, stuff used in actual, like, large scale warfare. But then I love how they do this. In 2016 they adopted the international small arms and light weapons in parallel with the other seven categories, so we can keep track of all small arms. Hmm, 2016. What were they doing to try, what was the big anti-gun push to try to disarm us around that time? Thinking that they’re going to try to go around collecting our arms in the United States. Like it’s so disgusting. I love how they just cloak it. You actually can go on to their reports. I got bored. So, I clicked the arms report of 2023 and I was like, okay, armored carriers, all that . Small arms. I wanted to look and see who were like the top buyers. So, revolvers and self-loading pistols – Iraq. Apparently. Evan Nappen 33:57 Really? Teddy Nappen 33:58 Yeah, like 2,150 pistols from us to Iraq. Evan Nappen 34:03 Oh, from the U.S.? Teddy Nappen 34:05 Yeah, from the U.S. It keeps track of each country. Evan Nappen 34:07 Well, we’re making them. Teddy Nappen 34:09 Yeah. Evan Nappen 34:09 Of course. We’re a major industrial manufacturer. What we should be doing is making guns. Teddy Nappen 34:14 Yeah. And then rifles and carbines. They separate that from “assault firearms”. Rifles and carbines. 20,000 to Israel. So, there you go for that end. Page – 9 – of 11Evan Nappen 34:27 Yeah, Israel makes a lot of their own weapons, too, and they make really good ones. Teddy Nappen 34:32 Yeah, I know they have the Hebrew hammer. Evan Nappen 34:35 Oh, yeah! Teddy Nappen 34:35 The Tabor X95. (https://iwi.us/firearms/tavor-x95/) But with the sub-machine guns, Saudi Arabia, 550. Evan Nappen 34:41 This doesn’t even matter. This is so absurd, and it’s just trying to globalize Second Amendment oppression. You know, our country’s blessed with Second Amendment. And of course, New Jersey does everything it can to undermine it, but the majority of America doesn’t do that. But internationally, we, you know, they hate us. They hate our Constitution, and they want to see us disarmed. We are standing as a threat to their globalist intentions, right? Teddy Nappen 35:21 I mean, that was the famous line that Donald Trump said to the world. The world does not belong to globalists. And that’s a fact. And here, in their charter, they even say, such measures, as they’re describing the whole disarmament office, such measures can also encourage restraint in the transfer and production of armament and decelerate military build up. In words of, okay, we need to lower the amount of guns in the world and try to disarm the people. That’s the cover they run, but they dress it up. I will give the Left credit. Their ability to wordsmith their way into something else is crazy. Evan Nappen 36:06 Well, listen, man. It’s not every political group that can convince people, you know, that a man can be a woman. So, why can’t they convince the world about this with guns? Right? Teddy Nappen 36:17 Well, it’s the political group that has the. When they did the whole study on mental health of different groups, the vast majority of people that vote Democrat have mental illness. So, let that sink in. That was an actual study, and that was put out by, like, CNN! So. Evan Nappen 36:18 Really? Teddy Nappen 36:19 Yeah, they had to be like. No, I love it. If you are ever bored? Anyone who’s very bored, go on to CNN and catch Harry Enton, the statistics guy. He’s the golden retriever of CNN. He just talks about numbers, and he gets so excited. He’s like, oh my God, have you seen these numbers? I can’t believe Page – 10 – of 11it. He’s always, like, shocked every time. He sees like, you know, everyone keeps saying Trump’s numbers are going bad, but you go over to here. Six months ago, 84, and now, it’s 85. Oh, wow, amazing. Like, it’s just, it’s that energy. It’s crazy. Evan Nappen 37:13 Well, how old is he? Maybe he’s just trying to get excitement to statistics? Teddy Nappen 37:18 I know, but it’s just like, what are the numbers? Pretty good. He’s like, gad Zooks. He’s like, clapping. I know. It’s just like, what the heck is it? Like if anyone is bored? Just look up Harry Enten on CNN. He’s, it’s so fucking weird. Evan Nappen 37:37 Okay, I love it. All right, Teddy. Well, that is interesting to know, but I’m not surprised, not surprised at all. This is the moment, the moment when we discuss the GOFU, that is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. It is one of the most important aspects of what we do, because every day we deal with Gun Owner Fuck Ups. And when we can let the listeners know, you get to learn expensive lessons for free. And this week’s GOFU is real simple. It’s Accidental Discharge. Let me just make it real clear. Now, more than ever, more than ever, you’ve got to be extremely overly conscientious. You better triple check chambers. You’ve got to make sure. You cannot afford in any way to have any kind of Accidental Discharge in New Jersey, because you risk it all. You risk it all. You risk becoming a felon. You risk going to prison. You risk losing your gun rights for the entire United States. You risk not being covered, arguably, by insurance. It is an insane risk that New Jersey is imposing, and I’ve seen 80 cases throughout my entire practice. Unfortunately, they happen, and, you know, in hindsight, they’re all avoidable. But folks don’t be a GOFU. Please, please, please. Follow all the rules of safety, and make sure you treat every gun as loaded. Every gun, you treat as loaded. Do not for a second, not do that. It’s just that critical. They’re criminalizing those who make a simple mistake, and there is no tolerance. Evan Nappen 40:00 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Speaker 2 40:13 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing Evan@gun.lawyer. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 11 – of 11 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S5 E273_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America's Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it's no wonder he's become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It's Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham's Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  talkback@gun.lawyer Join Evan's InnerCircleHere's your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";

Air Week: January 19-25, 2026 George Goldner, Pt. 2 – Gee Records It’s part 2 of our 3 part series on record man, George Goldner. He is said to have had the “golden ear” for hit records and songwriter Jerry Leiber even complimented his talent for picking hit songs by saying that Goldner had, “the musical taste of a fourteen-year-old-girl.” Born to Jewish immigrants in 1919, Goldner’s first love was Latino dance music and he began his career by opening night clubs and starting Tico Records, a Latino label in 1948. By 1953, he was interested in Rhythm & Blues and began releasing records under the Rama subsidiary. We featured Rama Records in part 1. This week, the “Juke In The Back” with Matt The Cat will take a close look at Goldner’s second R&B label, Gee Records. It’s been said that the label was named after the huge success of The Crows single, “Gee” on Rama Records, but it’s more likely that he named the Gee label after himself. Gee was very vocal group focused and we’ll hear seldom-played classic records from The Coins, The Five Crowns, The Valtones, The Debonaires and The Quintones. Goldner scored the biggest and most influential hit of his entire career on Gee with “Why Do Fools Fall In Love” by The Teenagers featuring 14 year old Frankie Lymon. The late, great Herbie Cox of The Cleftones was in Goldner’s office when the Teenagers auditioned as The Premiers and we’ll hear Herbie recall that story as well as how the Cleftones came to sign with Goldner. Next week, we’ll close the series with a spotlight on Gone and End Records, Goldner’s last 2 labels under his stewardship. LISTEN BELOW

Yes, we're wrapping up the podcast. Is it Heated Rivalry's fault? Kinda! We had a really good go, but after a lot of conversations about this, we have decided that we will end Gayest Episode Ever with one last ten-episode season. The below episodes will be going live every other week (in the way new episodes have appeared in the feed in the last year), so we're going to be around for some time yet, but this is the plan for the last run of GEE. And if you're disappointed or surprised, please let us know. But in this mini-ep we do get into the reason why we've come to that decision. The schedule for the final season (order TBD) Happy Days S2E4 "You Go to My Head"  Ned and Stacey S1E19 "Gay Caballeros" Dear John S1E13 "Stand by Your Man" Married… With Children S3E21 "Life's a Beach" Duckman S3E2 "Forbidden Fruit" Oh Grow Up (episode TBD) Gay Disney shorts Cheers S11E26 "One for the Road"  Batman: TAS S2E11 "Baby Doll"  Frasier S1E24 "My Dinner With Niles"    

This episode of This Podcast Will Change Your Life stars Tracey Gee (The Magic of Knowing What You Want: A Practical Guide to Unearthing the Wisdom of Your Desires). It was recorded over the Zoom between the This Podcast Will Change Your Life home studio in Chicago, IL and Gee's City of Angels home in December 2025. 

Juvenile offenses could be dropped rom ‘Three Strikes’ convictions // Gee has a 1950s marriage //AGREE TO DISAGREE: Does sports journalism have a problem? // WE HEAR YOU! and WORDS TO LIVE BY

Air Week: January 12-18, 2026 George Goldner, Pt. 1 – Rama Records We begin a multi-part series on record man, George Goldner. He is said to have had the “golden ear” for hit records and songwriter Jerry Leiber even complimented his talent for picking hit songs by saying that Goldner had, “the musical taste of a fourteen-year-old-girl.” Born to Jewish immigrants in 1919, Goldner’s first love was Latino dance music and he began his career by opening night clubs and starting Tico Records, a Latino label in 1948. By 1953, he was interested in Rhythm & Blues and began releasing records under the Rama subsidiary. This week, we’ll take a close look at Goldner’s first R&B label, which helped put Rock n’ Roll on the musical map with the 1953 smash, “Gee,” by New York vocal group, The Crows. “Gee” crossed over to a very respectable #14 on the pop chart and just might be the first Rock n’ Roll hit by a Rock n’ Roll group. From there, Goldner signed The Wrens, The Valentines, The Joytones, The Heartbeats, The Harptones and other NY groups that are now considered vocal group royalty. His house band was led by the tenor great, Jimmy Wright, who put his sax stamp on all these classic records for Goldner’s various labels. Next week in part 2, Matt The Cat will focus on Gee Records as we continue our look into the ground-breaking labels of George Goldner.  LISTEN BELOW

In this week's new discussion, the story of a Yankees prospect who might have made it if not for a certain United Nations police action overseas. Then we return to 2017 for a look back at one of the show's earliest episodes and what was happening in the game on the days the United States went to war. Gee, I wonder what brough that one to mind? The Infinite Inning is a journey to the past to understand the present using baseball as our time machine. America's brighter mirror, baseball reflects, anticipates, and even mocks the stories we tell ourselves about our world today. Baseball Prospectus's Steven Goldman shares his obsessions: history from inside and outside of the game, politics, stats, and Casey Stengel quotations. Along the way, we'll try to solve the puzzle that is the Infinite Inning: How do you find the joy in life when you can't get anybody out? 

Inclement weather. Traffic snarls. Detours. Flights canceled. Roads closed. As the song goes, "Gee, the traffic is terrific".  But it's always been that way.  Just ask Joseph.  And check with the Wise Men. There will be changes to our plans and detours in the year ahead.  However, one thing is certain through it all.  With the birth of Jesus, Immanuel, we can take heart and look ahead with confidence – God is with us.

Quaranteam - Dave In Dallas: Part 10 Dave & Olivia use skills meant for a last resort.Based on a post by RonanJWilkerson, in 12 parts. Listen to the Podcast at Explicit Novels. Let's review the list of characters: David Belsus – 46, physics & astronomy professor at Eastfield college, a community college in the Dallas area. Prepper, survivalist, has a greenhouse in his backyard and lives in an outer ring suburb. Six foot, fit, short cropped hair. Lupie Ramos – 32, former financial advisor, Dave's neighbor, got caught out of state when the lockdowns started. She spent two frantic weeks trying to get back to her daughter. Lupie has been in love with Dave for over a year. Long, dark brown hair, medium build, and a lovely smile. Esme – 9, daughter of Lupie, prone to the occasional snarky comment. Adores Dave. Becca; 18, Lupie's babysitter, was watching Esme when lockdowns occurred. Her refusal to abandon Esme, as her mother insisted, likely saved Becca's life, since her extended family ignored precautions and died of Duo. Esme, Lupie, and Dave are all Becca has left in the world. Short, medium build, small tits, with short blond hair and a smile that is shy with strangers and beams with family and friends. Janice Wheeler; 33, Dave's first partner to arrive, a librarian at Cedar Valley, another community college member of DCCCD. Slender build and medium height, Janice is 3/4 Korean, her paternal grandfather is Anglo. Medium length black hair often pulled back in a bun for work or ponytail at home. Shawna Cooper; 36, senior meteorologist at WFAA, Master's degree in meteorology from O U, worked at NSSL and spent time as a storm chaser. Whole hog sci-fi nut, beginning with Start Trek TNG. 5' 10", large tits, medium brown skin, dark brown eyes, shoulder length black hair styled like a frizzy weeping willow. Olivia Tyler (Liv); 21, senior studying horticulture at Tarleton State University, near Dallas. Daughter of Carter and Janelle, Dave's best friends since college. Had a well-known crush on Dave throughout her teen years. Since her dad was former SF and a survivalist, Liv is skilled with several firearms as well as bladed weapons. Never failed to take a deer any season she's hunted. 5'10" long, dark brown hair, large tits, lightly tanned, brown eyes, and a wide smile. Melanie Ustanich; 22, graduate student in IT at Tarleton, Liv's roommate, recently found a passion for cooking. Spent most of her life in foster homes, Liv's parents accepted her like family the first time she went with Liv on Thanksgiving Break. 5'8" medium length auburn hair, green eyes, small mouth with a ready, mischievous smile. The ladies came through, leaving one mug beside the detective and swiftly exiting with the pot, several mugs, a milk jug, and a small container that may have just been repurposed as a sugar dish. Verratti pushed her mask up to her nose to take a sip, holding the mug like a sacred talisman, her eyes closed and a look of bliss dawning on her face. It was a short day. She opened her eyes and the distance they contained sent the brief appearance of joy below the horizon once again. Laying her mug back on the table, she pulled her mask back into place. "The man that was with you that day at the range?" "Yes, my friend Carter. He was the one that arranged the time on the range." "And how did he manage that? Didn't you say a few times he was a security guy?" "He runs physical and digital security checks for sites his company guards. He and his guys also get hired out by insurance companies to check out their client's security plans as well." For a moment, Dave allowed himself to forget the pain and use the present tense. "I think you mentioned a few times before class that he was in special forces?" "Yep. He likes to say his civilian job is kinda similar to his work in the army, just with paintball or laser tag gear." "Good." She motioned him to sit close, so she could speak lower. "You've stumbled into something no one seems to be working hard to solve." Dave's eyebrows stitched together. Her tone was more ominous than her words. "Nine weeks ago, a truck carrying seven vaccinated women was attacked. It was on its way to some rich neighborhood to deliver partners to the McMansion set. The attackers covered their tracks reasonably well, so we never caught them. Two weeks ago, a shipment of vaccine got hit between Grand Prairie and the Vax Center. They didn't even try to take the whole shipment, just grabbed a bunch and ran like hell. The chopper that was following them didn't have infrared on it, so they lost track of them in the trees in the dark." Dave stayed silent as she paused to gather her thoughts. "Look, I shouldn't have said any of this, but nobody's doing anything. Your friend has the skills to deal with the problem. And the way you've always presented yourself, if he's your friend, then he'll want to apply his skills to right a great big fucking wrong that's being ignored. There's an Air Force liaison office in the station right now. They're supposed to coordinate a military response to big attacks, but they've been blasé about both attacks." "Wait? Military to take out crooks? I mean, even big deal shit like this? Shouldn't that be done by SWAT or ATF?" She stared at him. If he had to guess, her lips were tightly pressed together under her mask. Her words were tightly spoken as she continued. "The fact your attackers cut their fallen buddies' nuts off suggests they had bonded female partners. That means either the hijacked transport, or the vaccine attack. Maybe both. And that means they may have been coming here to abduct your partners and bind them to themselves." "But that would kill them!" Dave started out as a loud interjection, but at her look, and as his own self-control kicked in, he dropped to a strenuous whisper. "There; is a way. But only if the man is dead. There was an ER nurse on the first transport. She would have known about the procedure, at least in broad terms." She pulled a map from her valise. Unfolding it, she pointed to two locations. The attacks happened here, and here." "Yeah, that stretch of I-20 is a bit empty, even being in the middle of urban sprawl." "Because of that attack, they moved the flights to Love Field." "No rural hideouts along the way." "Exactly. Now look, here's where the chopper last was sure they had an eye on them." Her finger indicated a spot southeast of Athens. "What I'm asking you is to get a hold of your friend. See if he and some of his team are willing to investigate; and maybe rescue some of these women. No one else is doing anything about this. And they are escalating." "Do you think they'll try again here?" "I don't know. Not anytime soon, you gave them plenty of reasons to give this place a wide berth. I can't swear to that, but I'd say they'll at least leave you alone for a while." Which means they may be coming for my family again. Whenever they feel like trying again. No point in telling her about Carter. I'll have to do this myself, but I'm not telling her that. A trained, former special forces operative that still does security testing is a reasonable person to ask to do this. A community college professor that's been trained by his prepper buddy doesn't sound nearly as reassuring. Fuck Carter, why the hell did you have to die? "How sure are you on that last sighting?" She flipped her notebook back several pages. After consulting her notes, she carefully laid her finger again on the map. "Right there." Dave stared at the indicated location, noting nearby major road intersections and the distances from each to the tip of her finger. Mainly, he looked at the roads that formed a boundary around the area. The raiders may not be inside that space, but it was a place to begin. "Be very careful. There's suspicion that some army deserters are with these guys." She took a deep breath. "It's like pulling teeth getting anything out of the Air Force woman about this. Please professor, talk to your friend. I'll contact you in a day or so to see if he's responded." "Why don't I just call you?" "I'd rather have that discussion when I'm not at the station or around other officers." "Okay. You need anything else from me detective?" "No. No, I should be going. I'll call in a few days." "I'll be ready." Hope I've found them by then . Dave walked her to the door and locked up behind her. He slipped over to the parlor to check the window patch for any air leaks. Dave ran his hand around the edges, slowly, but felt no movement, not cold streams. Some of the family had come downstairs, now that the weather was once again outside. Dave sat in a chair, staring off into space while the others red or talked. This may take more than a day, just to find these guys. And once I do, I'll need time to observe, and then time to plan. Food, water, ammunition. I'll need something long-range. My best bet will probably be picking them off one at a time at first. I've got silencers for the MP5's, but no subsonic ammo. It's still going to be obvious when I shoot. Carter has all the subsonic ammo. Imagine the look on the face of whoever finds his armory. Fuck, what if they just bulldoze the place? Yeah, Liv and I need to try and get his weapons and equipment. Wait, I have subsonic.22LR. I could use that for the first few. Fuck, I'm really doing this. That means I'll be gone for a few days. It's already been two days for Rebecca, and she's on such a short fuse. We really ought to ask the vaccine experts why that is. Gee, what a call to make. "Hey, vaccine guys? Yeah, look, I've got this eighteen year old cutie that just insists on having sex every four days. Like, she's climbing the walls by day five. What's up with that?" I'm sure they'll have all kinds of sympathy. Well, I have my first thing I've got to do before I go. Dave found Becca in the room she and Reena shared. The one they'd previously used as a 'hotel room' the night the ladies put together for prom. Reena was not around. "Hey, sexy nerd girl, what're you up to?" Becca rolled on to her back from her book reading. Her face was glowing, though she was also blushing from her scalp to, well, lower than her shirt collar. She very cutely bit her lower lip. Dave chuckled. "You are so damn cute, ya know that?" Her face twisted a little. "Demotion huh? I've gone from sexy to cute in less than a minute." "One does not preclude the other. There is an intersection of the two. In my opinion, you exist within that intersection." "God, you know how weirdly sexy it is that you can talk math about sex?" "You know how great it is that you're one of two partners I can talk to that way? Most of the others either won't get it, or will be turned off by it." The radiant look Becca got from the compliment was exactly what Dave was going for. She wasn't just a teen hottie, or gamer girl, or some other check box. She was his younger nerd partner that he got to introduce to so many things he loved that were new to her. Or, things she'd heard about, but not yet experienced. And she was fun in bed. Becca's hand slipped to the hem of her t-shirt. Dave stepped swiftly up to her bed and grabbed her hands. He pulled her around so her ass hung off the edge of the bed and her head was braced against the wall. She and Dave were still experimenting with different ways to have sex. She'd recently mentioned that quickies sounded kinda hot. Dave figured now would be a good time to try. He grabbed her shorts and panties at the hips and pulled both down to her calves, bringing her legs straight up in the same motion. Dave leaned against her, her ankles on one of his shoulders, as he unbuttoned his pants and shoved pants and boxers to mid-thigh. The aroma of Becca's arousal reached Dave's nostrils, matching the signal that her panting breath and lust-filled eyes were sending. Truth to be told, he was fairly revved as well. The little gasp she gave as he hand-fed his mostly hard cock into her saturated pussy was delicious. Dave leaned in closer, folding her legs back onto her body, her ankles on either side of his head, her shorts against his collarbone. He drilled her fast and hard. This wasn't love making, wasn't a tantric exercise, and was not 'the full Dave'. A quickie was just that; hard, fast, and get 'er done. Becca's cute little huffs and grunts urged him to keep going, her moist, rippling channel gripping his shaft and egging him on. In due time, Dave felt that familiar tingle in his balls rising up through his cock and he began firing his hot seed into her eager passage. Becca shuddered and convulsed the same as if Dave had taken most of an hour lifting her to ecstatic heights. Dave leaned a bit further in to kiss Becca tenderly on the lips. Becca giggled. "That was fun." "Good, we can add that to the repertoire," Dave said, buckling his pants. He leaned in for another kiss, this one with just a moment of lingering, before walking away. Becca's eyes shone brightly as they followed him. Now I wait. Dave spent the rest of the evening sitting with his ladies, sometimes talking, mostly listening. Lupie called everyone to the dinner table. A nice warm casserole that soothed the insides after most of the day with the inside matching the weather outside. Downstairs anyway. Mostly what Dave remembered from the evening was looking around the table at his family as they chatted and moved on from the events of the morning. Mostly. Every once in a while, someone's attention wavered, or they flinched from a sound. That's why I have to do this. Dinner was late enough that some began their night time routine once it was over. It had been a draining day, even for those that had huddled upstairs. The emotional impact, the fear and anxiety they'd gone through took a physical toll. "Hey, Shawna, let's meet in my office in a few minutes, okay? I'll find Liv and Mel and have them join us." "Sure. Night security?" "Yeah. The detective was reasonably sure there wouldn't be a repeat tonight, but let's be safe." "Okay." Shawna hugged him tightly. Dave went off to find the other two, then made his way to his office. Even though they'd just finished dinner, he felt a bit munchie. He pulled a half-eaten pint of blueberries out of his fridge and snacked slowly. Each woman smirked as they entered. Shawna started imitating the guitar intro of a certain song by Black Sabbath. Dave just shook his head with a rueful smile. Then he popped a few more berries in his mouth. "We need to maintain a watch tonight," he informed them once he'd cleared his mouth. "The threat is perceived to be low, but I'd rather not take a chance. I'll take first watch, then wake Shawna to relieve me. She can wake Liv, and when Liv's shift is over, she can wake Mel." The way Olivia stared at Dave made him wonder if she suspected his real plan, but she said nothing. "We'll post guard here in Shawna's morning room with the door open. It's right at the top of the stairs, so anyone would have to come past the guard to get to any of us. I'll drag the chair from that room to the door, far back enough that anyone looking in will see darkness, but near enough the guard can see the head of the stairs and part of the hallway in each direction." "That's it. Get some sleep. When it's time to switch over, get up and get moving. We'll have one pistol out and transfer that over. Don't go to bed until your relief is in place." Shawna came in for a kiss before she left. A long, slow kiss with no tongue. She looked meaningfully into his eyes before she walked out, saying nothing. Dave waited over an hour for all the activity in his house to settle and everyone to fall asleep. He slowly and quietly rose from his seat. He slipped in to the master bedroom to find Shawna on the outer edge of the bed. Of course she'd thought ahead so she wouldn't disturb the others. Dave lightly tapped her foot, and she stirred awake. Dave went back to his post while she dressed. Once she got there, he handed over the pistol. "You're going after them aren't you?" she whispered low and urgent. "Yes. It's the only way to ensure everyone's safety. These guys are a danger to us, and others. The detective was so frustrated with the inaction, she told me other events that have happened, but no response from the police." "Other houses have been attacked?" "No, the other attacks haven't been on houses, but they look related." "How far away are they?" "I don't know for sure. She gave me some information on the last place they were seen." "Then how long will you be gone?!" She kept her voice low to not disturb anyone, but there was a 'shouting' tone to her whisper. "I don't know. I'm taking food and water in addition to the rest of the gear." "David, please be careful. All our lives depend on you." He wrapped his arms around her for a tight hug. "I know. I'm doing this for your safety. No more middle of the night break ins." He paused for a moment. "Carter took me through a few scenarios that apply. We had to use paintball guns for those trainings, but I've spent plenty of time on the range with all of these weapons. I won't be as good as Carter, but I'm good enough to pull this off. I'm coming back to you babe." He pulled back so they could look each other in the eyes. "You are plenty of reason to come back." "Me and eight others," she said with a teasing grin. "Anyone of you alone is enough to go fight this fight and get my ass back here in one piece. I finally understand Carter now. Somethings you have to fight for." He slipped away from her and went to the master bedroom closet. In a box tucked away in a corner, he pulled out a set of lightly used 90's era BDU that Carter'd urged him to get from an Army-Navy store. It was not the only set, but he wasn't going to be gone that long. Hell, his partners would all be screaming for doses by then. After dressing, and donning his combat boots, he walked silently out of the bedroom. That he had to pause and prep his mind for. Carter had shown him how to walk quietly in these boots, it just took practice and care. It had been a long time, so he ran through the lessons and practices in his head for a minute after he had them on. He trod gently down the stairs to the gun closet. He typed in the code and swung open the door. That's when the darkness at the end of the unlit hall moved. "Go to bed Olivia." His voice was flat. "You are not going after these guys alone." Dave flipped on the light in the small space. The illumination spilling into the hallway revealed Olivia in a matching pair of BDU. "How the hell?" "I mailed myself a box to this address before I reported to the vaccine center. Mostly other stuff, but one set of woodlands and my best broken-in boots." "Livy, you need to stay here and watch the others." "I need to watch over your ass and bring you home so you can keep fucking all these women that are addicted to your cum." Dave felt a wave of shame at the comment. That he was risking himself, some, but their safety required he take out this threat. That he was; unfaithful to any of these women, because none of them were the only one. Yes, he could personally enumerate all the reasons why, but that didn't change the visceral reaction of a man that never wanted a lot of women, just one that he could be devoted to, and vice versa. "Liv ;” "I'm not trying to talk you out of this. I'm certainly not condemning you for having multiple partners, David. On behalf of myself, and all your partners, I insist I go with you and provide overwatch. You know I'm a better sniper than you. You're better at CQB. We do this together." A cold hand gripped Dave's chest. "Olivia, I already dragged you into one gunfight. I won't do it again." "You didn't drag me into anything. The world sucks and some people are assholes. The same guy that taught you raised me not to just stand idly by. I'm going with you." She came in close, molding her hand to his jawline. "You didn't cause the attack this morning. You stood in the gap, and I stood with you. What you're about to do is needed. And I'm standing with you again." Without another word, she slipped around him and started gathering her gear. Dave joined her. Within half an hour, they loaded tactical gear, ammo, weapons, water jugs, canteens, and field rations in Liv's pickup and got on the road. They were completely in sync, though neither spoke a word. Chapter 12; A Walk on the Chaotic Good Side. October 29, 2020 12:30am The hum of the heater fan on its lowest setting combined with the warm air coming off the windshield were not helping Dave maintain alertness. Livy drove while he checked their route against what he'd seen on the detective's map. So far, it was just a matter of 'drive towards Athens'. Dave snuck the window down a little, inviting some cool air to help him stay fresh. Not too far, though. Occasionally, they'd run into an isolated cloud still giving up a pittance of drizzle, remnants of what passed over their house yesterday morning. Mostly it was just cold. "I miss the little triangle windows that pivoted open on Dad's old beater pickup." Dave chuckled. "Yeah, those were useful. Guess somebody decided to save money and make them fixed instead of movable." Olivia humphed in response. When she said nothing for a few minutes, he reached into the bag on the seat between them and pulled out an apple. She didn't notice until he took his first crackling bite. "Damn. Again?" she laughed. "Fill up too much and you'll bust out that stab shirt. Sorry, it's just;” "I'm eating way more often than the rest of you, and not gaining any weight. Yeah, I know. They said this serum shit has weird side effects. Seems for me it's kicked my metabolism into the stratosphere." "Oh, big words like 'stratosphere' huh? Hmm, ya know, the higher metabolism would explain why you're outrunning me." Dave turned his head towards her, a mock annoyed expression on his face. "I've been faster than you for years. For a bit there in your teens you gave me a good challenge." Liv giggled. "I got faster so you'd have to look at my ass." "I worked harder to stay ahead of you so I wasn't looking at a sixteen-year-old's ass." Out of the corner of his eye, Dave noted Livy giving him a rueful look. With a quiet voice; and one eye on the road; she asked, "Is this the only way we could have been together?" His heart skipped a beat. His voice was deepened with loss when he replied, "I don't know, Olivia. I just don't know. The two of us together would have been a very unusual pairing in other circumstances. No law would have stopped us being together but a lot of custom and tradition would interfere." He reached his hand out and she took it. "So it was either this, or an asteroid hitting the Earth for me to get you?" Dave laughed. "Maybe not quite that dramatic." Their joined hands lay on the seat between them for a time, enjoying the union of their lives as the cold, damp miles passed. Half an hour later, signs proclaimed a junction ahead as they neared their first waypoint. "Want me to stay on 175 and go east around Athens?" "No, west on 7. When we get to the southside of town, we'll take 19 south." Dave waited before asking, "You need to switch out. We've both had long days." "I'm good. Just hand me another Dr. Pepper." Dave knee-stood in the seat, reaching back to the cooler with water, soda and reusable freezer packs. Ice would have been too loud loading at the house, and going to an automated ice station was more deviation than he was willing to take. The drinks weren't ice-cold this way, but they were at least cool. Between the caffeinated soda, and the No-Doz bottle in the glove box, they could fight off the drowsiness the road hum threatened to induce. Weirdly, the squeeze from the compression shirt for the stab plates helped keep him awake, though it did make it tougher to twist around for things. Maybe if he wore it more often, he'd know how to move better in it. With the late hour, and pandemic rules in effect, they hadn't seen another vehicle since pulling out of their own driveway. They crossed three overpasses for major roads out of town before exiting to southbound 19 / Palestine St. The creepy feeling intensified as they took their exit. The north side of the road held a hospital with what was undoubtedly the only ER for thirty miles around. In some directions, even further than that. And there was no activity at all. The lights were on. But no signs of human movement. A few miles down the road they passed the middle school, completely abandoned since March. Liv's hand slipped back to the middle of the bench seat. Dave added his to hers, holding her gently but firmly. Ten minutes later, with their headlights boring holes into the pitch black, Dave's phone buzzed. He pulled it out, noting the time was now approaching 2am. -There's been another attack, this time on a very rich man's estate. Bodyguards dead, left laying there. -Rich man dead, carried off, along with most of his partners. -Last seen southbound on 45, suspect they are taking that to 287 until Palestine. No intelligence beyond that. Please ask your friend to decide quickly. Dave quietly fumed. Another attack meant more suffering that he hadn't prevented. That was the whole point of this crazy scheme wasn't it? Immediately, he recalled a story Carter had told only once, after they'd been roommates for more than a year. It was a 'Boy's Night In' with two pizzas and a tsunami of beer, and some typical action flicks playing. Dave's friend related a time when they'd been too late to protect a local villager that had cooperated with the Special Forces team. The local government goons had not been kind to the collaborator. Or his family. "We found out too late, got there too late, not a fucking thing we could do. Not one fucking thing. Except," he raised his head so his bloodshot eyes were revealed, "we tracked the fuckers and took them out before they got back to their base. It was beyond our mandate. We were supposed to train only, not engage directly. We did it, and never talked about it." Track the fuckers down and take them out. Little wonder why that particular memory surfaced now. "Something wrong?" "Text from the detective. They hit another house. Successfully this time." "Oh shit. What are we going to do?" "What an old friend once told me was the only real option. Track the fuckers down and kill them." "Dad was such an eloquent man." Dave barked a laugh as he texted back. -We're already enroute. -We'll locate them on the run and track them to their base. -Thank God. -And thank your friend for me. Dave still saw no reason to inform her of his omission. Well, he felt a little guilty, but she'd get over it. Lupie on the other hand, might just tie him to the bed and spoon feed him between each woman's 'dosing' turn. Shawna might or might not help Lupie, but she was not going to help Dave avoid Lupie. Hell, by the time he got back, Lupie might be so worked up she'd chew him out exclusively in Spanish for over an hour. In between kisses and hugs because his dumb ass came home in one piece. Getting his mind back on the present, Dave pulled up a map on his phone. "This may make it easier to find their base. They're coming down 287. Previous attempts tracked them as far as Palestine. We'll intersect with 287 just outside Palestine, so we'll pick a good spot when we get there and wait. I suspect they will be an hour or half hour behind us." "K." Dave zoomed and scrolled on his map for several minutes. "There's a community college north of the intersection. It has a parking lot that will give us a good view, but far enough away we could miss something. There's also a gas station and a convenience store on the south of the intersection, on the west side that would give better views, but higher risk of detection. It's probably closed. If we're the only car there, it's going to be awfully suspicious; especially if we pull out right after they pass." "Don't worry, Dad gave me a few lessons on shaking a tail, and on tailing. Just before I went off to college, he even had me drive back country roads with no lights; on the road or car. If we can avoid getting noticed when we first pull out; by waiting 'til we can just see their tail lights; we should be fine." "Let's go for the convenience store first. If it looks too dicey, we'll move off to the college parking lot." Liv nodded her agreement. The silence that followed persisted until the intersection loomed. The community college parking lot had all of its lights on, as did the Exxon just south of it. The Valero on the west side and south of the intersection had its awning lights on, but no more. No lights were on around the convenience store south of the highway confluence. Even better, there were two vehicles parked in the lot. Liv pulled into a space near one of the other vehicles. But not too close. She killed the lights, lowered the windows halfway, and turned off the ignition. Both occupants of the truck surveyed first the near vehicle, then the more distant one, looking for any sign of occupancy. If these guys were good, they might have a lookout posted to watch for a tail. During the forty-five minute wait, neither their eyes nor ears detected any sign of another person in the parking lot. For that matter, there was no sign of anyone around the college, or in the gas station south of them. The station across the way probably had an attendant inside. A low rumble coming from the northwest initially alerted Dave and Liv to their approaching quarry. Without exchanging words, they each hunched down in their seats. Both were on full alert. Hunter versus hunter was a dangerous game. Of course, if one hunter doesn't know the other is around, so much the better. For the other at least. Five S U V, varying from mid-size to huge, rolled swiftly through the interchange. They slowed from far in excess of highway speeds, down to something reasonable for the possibility of merging; if one had incredibly sparse traffic to handle. Which worked just fine, since there was absolutely zero traffic to merge with. As the engine sounds began to fade, Livy sat up and started the engine. She quickly doused the lights that automatically lit up before backing out from behind the vehicle two parking spaces over. Hopefully, it shielded them from the target's notice. Well, that and the fact the targets were headed away from them, and presumably keeping hostages in check. With swift, smooth motions, Olivia got the pickup on the highway following the distant trail of tail lights. Noting the woodlands on both sides of the highway limiting visibility around the curves, Livy began rapidly closing the distance. Balancing that were the few streetlamps and the need to not show up in the last vehicle's rearview mirror. The train of S U V passed under one, went dark again except for the taillight; which brightened briefly; then were illuminated again for a flash before disappearing. "Shit," she muttered. "It's gotta be the underpass for the loop. That's why they went left and cut off. They went behind the embankment. Just take the loop to the left and keep pressing. We'll catch them. Just be careful of more street lamps. I'm not sure if this loop they're hopping on is limited access. If they hit stoplights, we'll need to be very careful to avoid notice." "Right." There were a few traffic lights to negotiate, but both were solid green the entire time the runners and the pursuers were in view. The greater concern was the street lights near the intersections. Increasing their following distance once a traffic light became visible bought them some grace. They also took the risk of allowing the convoy to get out of view over a small rise while they waited just outside the pool of light before making the left at Park Ave. That was followed by mild panic until they could catch up with their quarry. A sweeping left turn awaited just over the crest. Dave spotted tail lights turning right as they finally hit a straight section. It turned out to be another curve in the road. This road had just enough curves to allow Livy to close the distance and remain unobserved. As the pursuing duo came around one curve, the convoy ahead was disappearing around the next. Just as they cleared a shallow 's' turn, Dave spotted tail lights disappearing to their right. "Ease up, I think we're going off onto a narrower road." By the time they reached the turn, Liv had them at an appropriate speed. No sign of the convoy ahead, and greater darkness with the trees closer in, she had to go slower. Fortunately, the road was winding through a few tight turns which caused the convoy to go even slower. They managed to catch sight of taillights and hear engine noises through the trees before they got close enough to be noticed. The asphalt took a gradual rightward curve, but a faint red glow inside the dust cloud ahead signaled the convoy had plunged ahead onto the dirt road. Hunter and unwitting prey slowed again, but the frequent braking and the scattering effect of the dust kept Dave and Liv well aware of their quarry's position. Liv coasted and maintained distance so she never had to touch the brake. To do so would reveal their pursuit. The convoy slowed further and Liv allowed the truck to coast to a stop. "Let's find a place to park this thing and dismount." Dave pointed off to a small pocket beside the road where the trees curved away from the dirt track. Each opened their door gingerly, sliding quietly to the wet grass. Liv and Dave first checked their own gear, then each other's. Satisfied they wore or carried everything they thought they would need, they eased the doors closed, latching them softly. "One benefit of this weather; the gators will be hibernating, and maybe the snakes too," Dave said in a whisper. "Brumating. And probably yes on both counts. The gators will be in the water, but the snakes will find a burrow or hollow log. So stay away from likely hidey holes." "Yes, professor." Dave's wry grin was both smart ass and respectful. Liv's nature knowledge far exceeded his own. Her reply smile was appreciative. Then both faces went blank as the two focused on their mission. Using every technique Carter had taught him, Dave slipped stealthily through the trees. Crouching, he moved swiftly from bole to bole, taking care to avoid rock piles and downed logs. The red glow in the distance was diminishing. He noticed sets of tail lights lining up side-by-side before extinguishing. They were parking. That was a good thing, because Dave and Liv were already on foot. That also meant the possibility of guards on the perimeter. Dave paused a bit longer in his position, searching for any sign of patrols or stationary sentinels. Seeing none, he dashed forward to a new location and watched again for any sign of an observer. Liv moved from her prior spot to the place Dave had just vacated. Morning twilight was in full swing, so the pair had good lighting. Periodically, Dave observed men moving to each vehicle, removing a woman, and leading her to one of the buildings. A few men guarded the vehicles, but their focus was on the occupants, not someone outside. All the better. Dave and Liv found themselves places within whisper distance a few feet back from the tree line. Unobstructed views with low probability of getting spotted. In better circumstances, they would observe for hours, from multiple positions around the clearing, gathering information and striking in the wee hours, or at first light tomorrow. But; those women being taken inside compelled faster action. Whatever these assholes were doing needed to be stopped. At the same time, they couldn't just rush in, or they'd lose, Dave would be dead, and Liv would be dead or worse. And not long after, the rest of his family would be in very dire straits. So don't fuck up, asshole . This had to be what Carter meant about walking the razor's edge. One thing was clear; these guys had no security posted. The pre-dawn twilight was sufficiently bright that someone looking out the window would spot them if they got stupid. The trees opened up into a large clearing. Within the open space sat the parked S U V, two large buildings, and several smaller ones. The two large buildings were corner adjacent and perpendicular on their long axes. They were somewhat longer than they were wide. The large building stretched wide across their eyeline seemed to be where everyone was gathered. That's the building the women had been taken into. Several others converged on that location not long after. About half an hour after the last man disappeared into the big building, Dave and Liv spotted someone leaving. He had someone over his shoulder. He headed for one of the smaller buildings. About five minutes later, it happened again. Time to communicate. He pulled out his phone, already set to silent, no vibration. Fortunately, he had a few bars. -Compound located. Track my location. Stuffing his phone in his pocket without waiting for a reply, Dave slid closer to his partner. "I'm going in closer. I'll get under the windows and listen in." Liv's face was unconvinced. "Is that wise?" "We need to know more before we do anything. I've got to get close enough to hear them. Get your rifle ready to snipe. Keep me covered. I'll pass on the outside of the first building," he pointed to the one that lay along their line of sight and perpendicular to the target building, "and then cross along the near wall of the one they're in. You'll be able to see me for most of that time, and you can see either end. You'll know if someone's about to come around and spot me." "We need Dad's low watt tactical radios." "If wishes were horses, hun." He gave her a quick kiss, then silently backed further into the trees. This allowed him to move more quickly without detection, though he still remained on alert for any sentries out here in the trees. There were none. Approaching the tree line again, he scanned thoroughly with eyes and ears, for any sign of someone that would spot him emerging. With still no sign, Dave dashed from the trees to the near wall of the likely empty large building. There he waited, listening for any sound suggesting he'd been seen. His heart was pounding. He worked to calm himself so he could hear anything over the roar of the blood in his ears. Of course, that could just be the contrast. This rural fall morning was incredibly quiet thus far. Satisfied he was as yet undetected, Dave moved stealthily to the far corner of the building. He put a hand on the wall, feeling the rough brick exterior. It was distinctly not new, but not decrepit either. A few short steps brought him to the building's corner. Using the 'slicing the pie' tactic Carter taught him so long ago; and re-taught over and over and over; Dave passed around the corner to find no one there. Hugging the wall, he crept by, pausing at each of the two doors, listening for any sign of occupancy. By the time he reached the end of the building near the occupied building, the sun was not yet up, but the sky was well-lit. As was the compound. With more on the line, Dave took more time with his pie-slicing cornering technique. The rest of the compound, then the side wall of the other building, and then the back wall of the target building came slowly into view, all devoid of other humans. He slid carefully along the sidewall of the empty building until he was near the corner closest to his target. With his head only he once more rounded the corner, verifying no one had entered the small area bounded by the two buildings on two sides in the time he'd been behind the first one. Sure that he was clear, he crossed the gap to the second building. He watched his footfalls carefully since the area conjoining the two buildings had been cemented in a rectangular shape. Postholes along the edges suggested this might be some sort of outdoor area with an awning during warmer times. A broom at the corner Dave was heading for suggested someone took the time to keep it clear of debris. At least he didn't have to worry about stepping on a twig. Dave heard a door open, then close. Footsteps in grass reached his ears but receded. He swiftly slid along the wall to the front of the building and took a cautious peek. Once again, a man was walking toward one of the smaller buildings, this time carrying a woman in his arms rather than over his shoulder. Dave eased himself away from that corner and back to the corner proximate to the back wall. He had to step carefully around the broom again as he came around to the semi-enclosed courtyard. Dave eased his way carefully along the back wall. At least now he had the benefit of knowing Liv could watch the area around him and cover him as needed. He crept carefully, listening for sounds through the wall. Primarily though, he knew his best chances were under the three windows, two of which were close together, more than halfway down the building's length. As he approached an exterior vent for a dryer, he paused. For a moment the thought flashed through his mind that this would be the ideal place for a snake to hide. Then his rational brain took over, reminding him that the intermittent nature was likely insufficient to help a snake survive through the winter. They were more likely off in the woods somewhere or hiding in the walls of one of the houses. The first window was just past the vent. Dave paused. He waited for a few minutes, but heard nothing. He edged up, his face upturned, his nose turned away from the building. Edging upward, he allowed his peripheral vision a first glimpse in the window. It was dark. He turned his head slowly, seeking greater detail. A few shadows and a small light on the back wall limned out an empty kitchen space for a community. Efficient, but a little too regimented for Dave's taste. A little too zombie group think. Dave moved forward. This time he skirted around a pile of small diameter metal pipes. Must be for a future irrigation project or outdoor faucet. The next window was only a few feet past the pile. Dave had to be careful how far out he went. He crouched and quickly got back to the wall once past the pipes. He could already hear voices. Someone was angry. "I said sit the fuck back down. You dumbasses cost us three men with your half-assed raid. No, you don't get a shot at any of the women from this raid. You're lucky we let you fucking live. One more fucking word out of your fucking mouth and I will shit-can all your asses. And you, big mouth, you'll go last; after I ass fuck your sister without a new dose! You can watch her melt like somebody poured battery acid in her shithole, then I'll kill you, with the memory of her screams in your fucking ears!" Dave went cold. His mind called up one of the videos about the dangers for a woman exposed to the semen of any man other than her partner. Anger welled up in him, but he tamped it down. A berserker rage banged against the walls of Dave's discipline. He held his focus, knowing he would only accomplish his goal with cold efficiency. All the things Carter said over the years, words that had been whirling in his ears since the moment of the break-in, all settled into cold clarity. Yeah, they were gonna die. In due time. He crept closer. Again taking care to avoid detection, Dave saw a woman select a syringe full of a vibrant green substance. She moved over to; a dead body on the floor? What the hell? Why is she injecting the dead guy? Wait, now it's purple inside? Maybe he just misidentified the earlier color? The woman with the syringe stood. A man dragged a blonde woman over to a table near the lady with the syringe. Dave heard her whimpering once she was close. A second man took the woman's other arm. The two men held her pinned, face down, against the table as her whimpering turned to active cries. Dave's stomach turned over. A third man pulled the woman's pajama pants down. She wore no panties. The woman with the syringe approached. The way she walked, and the look on her face, gave the impression she was walking to the gallows. Dave swore she mouthed the word 'Sorry' to the pinned woman before injecting her with the purple contents of her syringe. Immediately, the woman jerked and thrashed. The man behind her dropped his pants. Dave dropped low, not needing to see anymore. Hell, he'd seen far more than he ever wanted to. The cries and sounds he heard had a certain resonance with the priming and later imprinting orgasms of his partners. But overlaid with a guttural, raw emotionality. Then there was no more sound from the woman. A few low conversations between the men, and then Dave heard the door on the other side of the building open. Dave duck-walked away from the window and around the pipes. Once against the wall again he raised up a bit and paused. He needed to collect his thoughts. What to do was clear. Kill every man here. Given what they were doing, there were no innocents. The only questions revolved around how to do what needed to be done. Ideas formed in his head, but he needed to confer with Olivia. At the very least, she needed to know his intentions. Teamwork would be vital. He also trusted her judgment. Her input could prove useful. It often did. Something more about Olivia was rattling around the back of his head. A thought jumping up and down, demanding attention, but not coming forward. Like a word sitting on the tip of your tongue you just can't say. Something he knew, but wasn't fully acknowledging. It didn't seem related to the immediate task, so Dave moved his attention elsewhere. The number of trips from the large building to the smaller ones was very nearly the number of trips from the cars to the big building earlier. That meant soon the men would no longer be occupied with; what they had been doing. Since some had recently come back from a raid, they were likely to bed down soon. That would be a good time to strike. Time to move and communicate. The door had cycled twice more during Dave's thinking. As he rounded the corner of the empty building, free to move unobserved, he heard the door slam open. He froze in place, a few steps past the corner, where he could listen without being detected. Multiple footsteps approached, and sharp mutterings between two men. The footfalls changed as they crossed from the grass onto the concrete. Their voices became clearer too. "Why drag her all the way out here? It's fucking cold and wet." "'Cuz I don't wanna clean up the fucking mess when the old bitch slags, that's why! Grass will just eat it up and get nice and green next summer. Inside, the carpet and the fucking pad have to be replaced." Dave's blood boiled. He tamped it down for immediate purposes. He also started moving back the way he came. Weapon at the ready, he rounded the corner again. Three figures were just crossing off the concrete pad and back into the grass. Two males in hunter camo and a naked blonde woman sobbing as they dragged her between them. They stopped several steps off the pad. One man was out of view, the empty building blocking Dave's line of sight to him. Liv surely had a good shot on him, but she might not yet know enough to take it. She'd know soon enough though. The man Dave could see was turned away from Dave, with the woman collapsed, on her knees in front of him, looking away from Dave also. By their orientations, the man that was out of sight was probably facing the corner and would see Dave the instant he came around it. Fortune favors the brave . One of Carter's favorite phrases. Dave slipped the MP5 back behind him, on safe, he pulled the.22 pistol from his holster, and the silencer from his cargo pocket, mated them gently, and carefully began screwing the silencer in place. The woman cried out, pleading for mercy. Unseen by Dave, the second man slapped her, the sound unmistakable. Dave was moving as the slap echoed. His face etched in stone. No anger in his visage, no mercy in his eyes. His weapon came up smoothly as his feet accelerated him along the wall towards the man in his vision. Dave was now a fire and maneuver platform for the pistol. Just before he cleared the corner, he fired three rounds, all into the man's upper left back. His shot group was as perfect as the practices with Carter over the years. At least one of the rounds went through the man's heart. The suppressor dulled the sound of firing, and the subsonic ammunition avoided the supersonic crack of the rounds that would surely draw attention. The stricken man fell even as Dave came around the corner, rounding on the next target. That man was just beginning to look towards the corner with a curious expression. Dave fired again. Three rounds, just as Carter had trained him. He also dropped with no further resistance or sound. The first target was on the ground and the second descending, knees buckling beneath a falling torso, when the shuddering blonde woman registered the changes. She began to rise and turn around. Dave reached her at that same moment, grabbing her bicep and hauling her to her feet. To forestall undesirable attention, he shifted his hand from her arm to her mouth, clamping it shut. He got there just in time. The woman stared at him, terror in her wide-open eyes. He held his pistol low and to the side, but her eyes ping-ponged several times from it to his face. As frightened as she was, her eyes settled, then roved over his face. Within seconds her terror was held in check. Not gone but shoved aside. Like she was ready to believe something less evil than that of the other men's plans was now upon her. "Stay quiet, I need to get you out of here." She nodded. Wariness was present, but also a willingness to believe in; something. Grabbing her hand, Dave led her across the concrete pad and around the corner of the empty building. He didn't stop until they'd passed the length of the building, now leaning against the short wall, in full sight of Olivia. In pausing, Dave was reminded consciously of what his subconscious had of course noted; the woman wore not a stitch of clothing. He quickly averted his eyes, but not before registering her phenomenal figure. Granted, the condition of her skin on her face and her body indicated a woman with more than just a few decades of experience on this little ball of rock, but she was none the worse for wear by any means. Fit was an entirely apt description. Her tits had a natural sag, but still bore a certain firmness as well as a modest heft. And her eyes. Her eyes were captivating. Penetrating even. They stared at him from a gently rectangular face. Modestly arched eyebrows topped those gazing deep green orbs, and model perfect cheekbones provided a pedestal for those eyes to rest upon. Shapely, proportionate lips still trembled slightly beneath a nose that was not quite angular, and more than a button. Her face would fit in on a magazine cover or a boardroom. A face that could launch a thousand simps. "Let's get into the trees. My partner, Olivia, is waiting for us. Once we get away from prying eyes, we can give you something to cover up with. What's your name?"" Her face warmed briefly even as her arms instinctively moved to shield her tits. "Natasha." Her voice was unsteady, but not weak. "That way, Natasha." Dave pointed to a small gap between two young trees. Nothing he'd seen suggested she was a plant or any other kind of trap, but with only himself and Liv, he realized there was no room for fuck-ups. He spent much of his time walking sideways, keeping an eye to their rear. They entered the trees easily and without getting spotted. Natasha immediately slowed, picking her places to step more carefully with her bare feet on the woodland surface. They proceeded straight back from the buildings, in reverse of Dave's approach. He caught her arm when they reached the point to turn left towards Liv. Pointing quietly, Dave directed her on the new course. She nodded and kept moving. A few steps later, things started getting exciting. "Oh, holy Shit!" Even before his head turned, he knew the speaker was in the same vicinity as the two bodies he'd left behind. Through the intervening trees, Dave spotted a man standing in the gap between buildings. He safed the pistol and started unscrewing the silencer. There was no angle in stealth anymore. Once separated, the pistol went back in the holster and the silencer in his cargo pocket. He brought his MP5 back around. The man circled the two bodies slowly. Dave quietly moved closer to Liv, until they could see each other. With her attention on him, Dave drew his hand across his neck, then pointed at the man still examining the space where his friends had fallen. He heard the report of the rifle at nearly the same instant the back of the man's head sprouted a jet of blood and tissue. Dave hustled the last several steps to Liv's position. Liv gave him a wry smile as she looked behind him. "Recruiting more ladies, David?" As Dave began to object, her smile dropped. "I saw the whole thing. I didn't hear what was said, but they had it coming, that's for sure." "Yeah well, we need to get her warm and clothed. And still deal with these guys." "I've got spare clothes in the truck. Let her hide inside. At least get her out of the elements." Two men appeared, one on either end of the occupied building. Dave, Liv, and their charge were too deep in the trees for the men to spot. Besides, they were focused on the three bodies they could see. "Okay, I'm going to get her in sight of the truck, and then head down the backside of that building," Dave pointed to the empty building. "Got it. So, do I let these guys go back inside?" Do I tell her to take the shot? We're already all in here . Something in Dave went cold. "Once they turn back, take the shot." Liv merely nodded, her attention, earlier divided between her scope and Dave, was now fully downrange. Dave ushered Natasha along a tiny foot path, giving her some ease in foot placement. He tried to keep his eyes off her naked form, but when she jumped at Liv's first shot, the jostling of her tits was magnetic. He turned his eyes away quickly. Fortunately, he was able to spot the truck at this range. "We're going to have to work quickly to shut these guys down. Can you see that white patch through the trees?" Dave pointed in the direction he wanted her to look. Natasha nodded. "That's our truck. The door is unlocked. Get in there and get out of the wind. That will help you warm up some. Liv says she has a change of clothes behind the seat. Take a quick look to see if you can find a shirt or something. Then stay low, stay out of sight." The woman nodded again. "You are leaving me?" "I have to stop all of them before they hurt anyone else." Another shot rang out. She lunged at Dave, wrapping her arms around his neck. He was alarmed for just a moment, but he felt the shaking of her silent cries. She jolted again with the next shot. He gave her several seconds, then peeled her arms off of him. "I have to go." With that, he turned and hustled to a spot along the tree line proximate to the edge of the empty building. He was still covered by trees when he spotted a man moving toward him along the building. He's trying to flank Liv . Dave took up a firing position braced against a tree. Then he fired three rounds. The man dropped without a sound, though the shots echoed through the compound. Another crack from Liv's rifle announced her continued engagement with their opponents. If Dave didn't get engaged soon, they could overwhelm her. He sprinted across the gap and raced down the building's length. Another shot rang out. Dave reached the corner of the building, breathing hard, heart pounding. He heard feet slapping concrete and then go quiet. Swiftly turning the corner, he saw two men sprinting away, through the gap between buildings, and one more passing the other end of the building in the distance. Then another came around the corner near him, the follow-on to the two with their backs to him. He noticed Dave as Dave's SMG reached chest height. Dave's trigger finger pulled three times, smoothly, in quick succession. Three widely spaced red spots erupted on the man's chest. He fell against the wall and slid down. The man's weapon clattered to the concrete pad. Immediately, Dave shifted to the men headed away. One was beginning to turn. Dave fired on him first, this time with his weapon fully raised, taking aim and grouping his shots. Dave shifted to the second man that hadn't yet keyed on Dave's position behind him. With three rounds in his upper chest while running full tilt, the man tumbled to the ground. While Dave was taking out his targets, he'd registered two shots from Liv's rifle. That meant ten men in total they'd killed. But how many were there? At least ten, since the S U V had two men each. What Dave didn't know was how many were left behind to hold down the fort while the attackers were out. As he mulled over the issue, he dealt with two more immediate concerns. His weapon locked open on his last shot. He triggered the magazine release with his right, catching and removing the spent magazine with his left. Quickly, he stuffed the empty mag in his cargo pocket before pulling a fresh magazine from his tacvest. With a fresh magazine in place, he pressed the bolt release, driving a new round home. To be continued in part 11, Based on a post by RonanJWilkerson, in 12 parts, for Literotica.

In this episode of Gangland Wire, Gary Jenkins sits down with Bob Cooley, the once–well-connected Chicago lawyer who lived at the center of the city's most notorious corruption machine. After years out of the public eye, Cooley recently resurfaced to revisit his explosive memoir, When Corruption Was King—and this conversation offers a rare, firsthand look at how organized crime, politics, and the court system intersected in Chicago for decades. Cooley traces his journey from growing up in a police family to serving as a Chicago police officer and ultimately becoming a criminal defense attorney whose real job was quietly fixing cases for the Chicago Outfit. His deep understanding of the judicial system made him indispensable to mob-connected power brokers like Pat Marcy, a political fixer with direct access to judges, prosecutors, and court clerks. Inside the Chicago Corruption Machine Cooley explains how verdicts were bought, cases were steered, and justice was manipulated—what insiders called the “Chicago Method.” He describes his relationships with key figures in organized crime, including gambling bosses like Marco D'Amico and violent enforcers such as Harry Aleman and Tony Spilotro, painting a chilling picture of life inside a world where loyalty was enforced by fear.   As his role deepened, so did the psychological toll. Cooley recounts living under constant threat, including a contract placed on his life after he refused to betray a fellow associate—an event that forced him to confront the cost of the life he was leading. Turning Point: Becoming a Federal Witness The episode covers Cooley's pivotal decision in 1986 to cooperate with federal authorities, a move that helped dismantle powerful corruption networks through FBI Operation Gambat. Cooley breaks down how political connections—not just street-level violence—allowed the Outfit to operate with near-total impunity for so long.   Along the way, Cooley reflects on the moral reckoning that led him to turn on the system that had enriched and protected him, framing his story as one not just of crime and betrayal, but of reckoning and redemption. What Listeners Will Hear How Bob Cooley became the Outfit's go-to case fixer The role of Pat Marcy and political corruption in Chicago courts Firsthand stories involving Marco D'Amico, Harry Aleman, and Tony Spilotro The emotional and psychological strain of living among violent criminals The decision to cooperate and the impact of Operation Gambat Why Cooley believes Chicago's corruption endured for generations Why This Episode Matters Bob Cooley is one of the few people who saw the Chicago Outfit from inside the courtroom and the back rooms of power. His story reveals how deeply organized crime embedded itself into the institutions meant to uphold the law—and what it cost those who tried to escape it.   This episode sets the stage for a deeper follow-up conversation, where Gary and Cooley will continue unpacking the most dangerous and revealing moments of his life. Resources   Book: When Corruption Was King by Bob Cooley Hit me up on Venmo for a cup of coffee or a shot and a beer @ganglandwire Click here to “buy me a cup of coffee” Subscribe to the website for weekly notifications about updates and other Mob information. To go to the store or make a donation or rent Ballot Theft: Burglary, Murder, Coverup, click here To rent ‘Brothers against Brothers’ or ‘Gangland Wire,’ the documentaries click here.  To purchase one of my books, click here. 0:03 Prelude to Bob Cooley’s Story 1:57 Bob Cooley’s Background 5:24 The Chicago Outfit Connection 8:24 The Turning Point 15:20 The Rise of a Mob Lawyer 23:54 A Life of Crime and Consequences 26:03 The Incident at the Police Station 50:27 The Count and His Influence 1:19:51 The Murder of a Friend 1:35:26 Contracts and Betrayal 1:40:36 Conclusion and Future Stories Transcript [0:00] Well, hey guys, this is a little prelude to my next story. Bob Cooley was a Chicago lawyer and an outfit associate who had been in, who has been in hiding for many years. I contacted him about six or seven years ago when I first started a podcast, I was able to get a phone number on him and, and got him on the phone. He was, I think it was out in the desert in Las Vegas area at the time. And at the time he was trying to sell his book when corruption was king to a movie producer And he really didn’t want to overexpose himself, and they didn’t really want him to do anything. And eventually, COVID hit, and the movie production was canceled. And it was just all over. There were several movie productions were canceled during COVID, if I remember right. A couple people who I have interviewed and had a movie deal going. Well, Bob recently remembered me, and he contacted me. He just called me out of the clear blue, and he wanted to revive his book and his story. He’s been, you know, way out of the limelight for a long time. And so I thought, well, I always wanted to interview this guy because he’s got a real insider’s knowledge to Chicago Outfit, the one that very few people have. [1:08] You know, here’s what he knows about. And he provides valuable insight into the inner workings of the Outfit. And I don’t mean, you know, scheming up how to kill people and how to do robberies and burglars and all that. But the Chicago court system and Chicago politics, that’s a, that’s a, the, the mob, a mafia family can’t exist unless they have connections into the political system and especially the court system. Otherwise, what good are they? You know, I mean, they, they just take your money where they give you back. They can’t protect you from anybody. [1:42] So I need to give you a little more of the backstory before we go on to the actual interview with Bob, because he kind of rambles a little bit and goes off and comes back and drops [1:54] names that we don’t have time to go into explanation. So here’s a little bit of what he talked about. He went from being, as I said before, Chicago Outfit’s trusted fixer in the court system, and he eventually became the government star witness against them. He’s born, he’s about my age. He was born in 1943. He was an Irish-American police family and came from the Chicago South side. He was a cop himself for a short period of time, but he was going to law school while he was a policeman. And once he started practicing law, he moved right into criminal law and into first ward politics and the judicial world downtown. [2:36] And that’s where the outfit and the old democratic machine intersected. He was in a restaurant called Counselor’s Row, which was right down. Bob had an office downtown. Well, he’s inside that system, and he uses his insider’s knowledge to fix cases. Once an outfit started noticing him that he could fix a case if he wanted to, he immediately became connected to the first ward power broker and outfit political conduit, a guy named Pat Marcy. Pat Marcy knew all the judges He knew all the court clerks And all the police officers And Bob was getting to know him too During this time But Bob was a guy who was out in He was a lawyer And he was working inside the court system Marcy was just a downtown fixer. [3:22] But Bob got to where he could guarantee acquittals or light sentences for whoever came to him with the right amount of money, whether it be a mobster or a bookmaker or a juice loan guy or a crap politician, whoever it was, Bob could fix the case. [3:36] One of the main guys tied to his work he was kind of attached to a crew everybody’s owned by somebody he was attached to the Elmwood Park crew and Marco D’Amico who was under John DeFranco and I can’t remember who was before DeFranco, was kind of his boss and he was a gambling boss and Bob was a huge gambler I mean a huge gambler and Bob will help fix cases for some notorious people Really, one of the most important stories that we’ll go into in the second episode of this is Harry the Hook Aleman. And he also helped fix the case for Tony Spolatro and several others. He’s always paid him in cash. And he lived large. As you’ll see, he lived large. And he moved comfortably between mobsters and politicians and judges. And he was one of the insiders back in the 70s, 60s or 70s mainly. He was an insider. But by the 80s, he’s burned out. He’s disgusted with himself. He sees some things that he doesn’t like. They put a contract out on him once because he wouldn’t give somebody up as an informant, and he tipped one of his clients off that he was going to come out that he was an informant, and the guy was able to escape, I believe. Well, I have to go back and listen to my own story. [4:53] Finally in 1986 he walked unannounced they didn’t have a case on him and he walked unannounced in the U.S. Courthouse and offered himself up to take down this whole Pat Marcy and the whole mobster political clique in Chicago and he wore a wire for FBI an operation called Operation Gambat which is a gambling attorney because he was a huge gambler [5:17] huge huge gambler and they did a sweeping probe and indicted tons of people over this. So let’s go ahead and listen to Robert Cooley. [5:31] Uh, he, he, like I said, he’s a little bit rambling and a little bit hard to follow sometimes, but some of these names and, and, uh, and in the first episode, we’ll really talk about his history and, uh, where he came from and how he came up. He’ll mention somebody called the count and I’ll do that whole count story and a whole nother thing. So when he talks about the count, just disregard that it’ll be a short or something. And I got to tell that count story. It’s an interesting story. Uh, he, he gets involved with the only own, uh, association, uh, and, uh, and the, uh, Chinese Tong gang in, uh, Chicago and Chicago’s Chinatown. Uh, some of the other people he’ll talk about are Marco D’Amico, as I said, and D’Amico’s top aide, Rick Glantini, uh, another, uh, connected guy and worked for the city of Chicago is Robert Abinati. He was a truck driver. [6:25] He was also related to D’Amico and D’Amico’s cousin, former Chicago police officer Ricky Borelli. Those are some of the names that he’ll mention in this. So let’s settle back and listen to Bob Cooley. Hey, all you wiretappers. Good to be back here in studio gangland wire. This is Gary Jenkins, retired Kansas City Police Intelligence Unit detective. And, you know, we we deal with the mob here once a week, sometimes twice a week on the podcast. And I have a special guest that hadn’t been heard from for a while. And, you know, to be honest, guys, I’ve kind of gotten away from the outfit. I’ve been doing a lot of New York stuff and Springfield, Massachusetts and all around the country. And I kind of got away from Chicago. And we’re going back to Chicago today. And I’m honored that Bob Cooley got hold of me. Now, you may not know who Bob Cooley was, but Bob Cooley was a guy. He was a mob lawyer in Chicago, and he really probably, he heard him as much as anybody’s ever heard him, and he did it all of his own accord. He was more like an undercover agent that just wasn’t officially designated an FBI agent rather than an informant. But anyhow, welcome, Bob. [7:37] Hello. Nice meeting you. Nice to meet you. And I’ve talked to you before. And you were busy before a few years ago. And you were getting ready to make some movies and stuff. And then COVID hit and a lot of that fell through. And that happened to several people I’ve talked to. You got a lot in common with me. I was a Kansas City policeman. And I ended up becoming a lawyer after I left the police department. And you were a Chicago copper. And then you left the police department a little bit earlier than I did and became a lawyer. And, and Bob, you’re from a Chicago police family, if I remember right. Is that correct? Oh, police, absolute police background, the whole family. Yes. Yeah. Your grandfather, your grandfather was killed in the line of duty. Is that right? [8:25] Both of my grandfathers were killed in the line of duty. Wow. In fact, that’s one of the reasons why I eventually did what I did. I was very, very close with my dad. Yeah, and your dad was a copper. [8:38] He was a policeman, yeah. And in fact, you use that term. I, for many, many years, wouldn’t use that word. It just aggravated me when people would use the word copper. To me, it would show disrespect. Oh, really? I said to us in Kansas City, that’s what we call each other, you know, among coppers. Oh, I know. I know. But I know. But, you know, I just, for whatever reason, one of the things that aggravated me the most, in fact, when I was being cross-examined by this piece of shit, Eddie Jensen, the one I wrote about in my book that was, you know, getting a lot of people killed and whatever. And he made some comment about my father. and I got furious and I had to, you know, my father was unbelievably honest as a policeman. [9:29] Everybody loved him because they didn’t have to share, uh, you know, but he was a detective. He had been written up many times in true and magazines and these magazines for making arrests. He was involved in the cartage detail. He was involved in all kinds of other things, but honest as the day is long. And, and, um, but, uh, again, the, uh, my father’s father was, uh, was a policeman and he was killed by a member of the Capone gang. And, uh, and when he was killed, after he was killed. [10:05] The, uh, well, after he got shot, he got shot during a robbery after he got shot, he was in the hospital for a while. And then he went, then he went back home. He went back home to his, uh, you know, to his house, uh, cause he had seven kids. He had a big family too. And, uh, stayed with his, you know, with his wife and, and, and eventually died. And when he died they had a very mediocre funeral for him. They had a bigger, much bigger funeral when Al Capone’s brother died. But during that time when I was a kid when I was about 13, 12, 13 years old, I worked among other places at a grocery store where I delivered to my grandmother. My grandmother lived in South Park which later became Mark Luther King Drive. She lived a very, very meager life because she basically had nothing. [11:09] What they gave them for the, at that time, what they gave them for the police department was a portion of the husband’s salary when they died, whatever. It was never a big deal like it is now, you know, like it is now when policemen get killed in the line of duty. and I’m thinking at the same time I’m thinking down the road, You know, about certain things from my past did come back to affect me. [11:38] Doing what I was doing, when I got involved, and I got involved absolutely with all these different people. My father hated these people. I didn’t, you know, I didn’t realize how much. I didn’t realize much when I was growing, you know, when I was growing up and whatever. And even when I was practicing law and when I opened up Pratt-Mose, I would have my father and mother come along with other people. And the place was all full of mobsters. I mean, we’re talking about, you know, a lot of Capone’s whole crew. A lot of the gunmen were still alive. In fact, the ones that ran the first award were all gunmen from Capone’s mob. And never said a word, never said a word about it. You know, he met my partner, Johnny Diaco, who was part of the mob, the senator, and whatever colitis could be. My dad, when my dad was dying. [12:38] When my dad was dying, he had what they didn’t call it, but it had to be Alzheimer’s because my dad was a unbelievably, he was a big, strong man, but he was never a fighter, sweet as could be to anybody and everybody. When he started getting bad, he started being mean to my mother and doing certain things. So we finally had to put him into a nursing home. When I went to see him in the nursing, and I had a close relationship with my dad because he saved my life many times when I was a kid. I was involved with stolen cars at school. I should have been thrown out of school. It was Mount Carmel, but he had been a Carmelite, almost a Carmelite priest. [13:25] And whatever, and that’s what kept me from being kicked out of school at Marquette when they were going to throw me out there because I was, again, involved in a lot of fights, and I also had an apartment that we had across the hall from the shorter hall where I was supposed to stay when I was a freshman, and we were throwing huge parties, and they wanted to throw me out of school. My dad came, my dad came and instead of throwing me out, they let me resign and whatever he had done so much, you know, for me. Yeah. [14:00] Now when I, when I meet, when I meet him up in the hospital, I, I came in the first time and it was about maybe 25 miles outside, you know, from where my office was downtown. And when I went in to see him, they had him strapped in a bed because apparently when he initially had two people in the room and when somebody would come in to try to talk to him and whatever, he would be nasty. And one time he punched one of the nurses who was, you know, because he was going in the bed and they wouldn’t, and he wouldn’t let him take him out. You know, I was furious and I had to go, I had to go through all that. And now, just before he died, it was about two or three days before he died, he didn’t recognize anybody except me. Didn’t recognize my mother. Didn’t recognize anybody. Yet when I would come into the room, son, that’s what he always called me, son, when I would come in. So he knew who I basically was. And he would even say, son, don’t let him do this to me when he had to go through or they took out something and he had to wear one. Of those, you know, those decatheters or whatever. Oh, yeah. [15:15] Just before he died, he said to me, he said, son, he said, those are the people that killed my father. He said, and his case was fixed. After, I had never known that. In fact, his father, Star, was there at 11th and State, and I would see it when everyone went in there. Star was up there on the board as if there’s a policeman or a policeman killed in the line of duty. When he told me that it really and I talked to my brother who knew all about all that that’s what happened, the gunman killed him on 22nd street when that happened the case went to trial and he was found not guilty apparently the case was fixed I tell you what talk about poetic justice there your grandson is now in that system of fixing cases. I can’t even imagine what you must have felt like when you learned that at that point in your life. Man, that would be a grief. That would be tough. That’s what eventually made me one day decide that I had to do something to put an end to all that was going on there. [16:25] I’m curious, what neighborhood did you grow up in? Neighborhood identity is pretty strong in Chicago. So what neighborhood do you claim? I grew up in the hood. First place I grew up, my first place when I was born, I was at 7428 South Vernon. Which is the south side, southeast side of the city. I was there until I was in sixth grade. That was St. Columbanus Parish. When I was in sixth grade, we had to move because that’s when they were doing all the blockbusting there in Chicago. That’s when the blacks were coming in. And when the blacks were coming in, and I truly recall, We’ve talked about this many times elsewhere. I remember knocking on the door and ringing the doorbell all hours of the day and night. A black family just moved in down the street. You’ve got to sell now. If you don’t, the values will all go down. And we would not move. My father’s philosophy, we wouldn’t move until somebody got killed in the area. Because he couldn’t afford it. He had nine kids. he’s an honest policeman making less than $5,000 a year. [17:45] Working two, three jobs so we could all survive when he finished up, When he finished up with, when we finally moved, we finally moved, he went to 7646 South Langley. That was, again, further south, further south, and the area was all white at that time. [18:09] We were there for like four years, and about maybe two or three years, and then the blacks started moving in again. The first one moved in, and it was the same pattern all over again. Yeah, same story in Kansas City and every other major city in the United States. They did that blockbusting and those real estate developers. Oh, yeah, blockbusters. They would call and tell you that the values wouldn’t go down. When I was 20, I joined the police department. Okay. That’s who paid my way through college and law school. All right. I joined the police department, and I became a policeman when I was 20. [18:49] As soon as I could. My father was in recruit processing and I became a policeman. During the riots, I had an excuse not to go. They thought I was working. I was in the bar meeting my pals before I went to work. That’s why I couldn’t go to school at that time. But anyhow, I took some time off. I took some time off to, you know, to study, uh, because, you know, I had all C’s in one D in my first, in my first semester. And if you didn’t have a B, if you didn’t have a C average, you couldn’t, you kicked out of school at the end of a quarter. This is law school. You’re going to law school while you’re still an active policeman. Oh yeah, sure. That’s okay. So you work full time and went to law school. You worked full-time and went to law school at the same time. When I was 20, I joined the police department. Okay. That’s who paid my way through college and law school. All right. I joined the police department, and I became a policeman when I was 20, as soon as I could. My father was in recruit processing, and I became a policeman. Yeah, yeah. But anyhow, I went to confession that night. [20:10] And when I went to confession, there was a girl, one of the few white people in the neighborhood, there was a girl who had gone before me into the confessional. And I knew the priest. I knew him because I used to go gambling with him. I knew the priest there at St. Felicis who heard the confessions. And this is the first time I had gone to confession with him even though I knew him. [20:36] And I wanted to get some help from the big guy upstairs. And anyhow, when I leave, I leave about maybe 10 minutes later, and she had been saying her grace, you know, when I left. And when I walked out, I saw she was right across the street from my house, and there’s an alley right there. And she was a bit away from it, and there were about maybe 13, 14, 15 kids. when I say kids, they were anywhere from the age of probably about 15, 16 to about 18, 19. And they’re dragging her. They’re trying to drag her into the alley. And when I see that, when I see that, I head over there. When I get over there, I have my gun out. I have the gun out. And, you know, what the hell is going on? And, you know, and I told her, I told her her car was parked over there. I told her, you know, get out of here. And I’ve got my gun. I’ve got my gun in my hand. And I don’t know what I’m going to do now in terms of doing anything because I’m not going to shoot them. They’re standing there looking at me. And after a little while, I hear sirens going on. [22:00] The Barton family lived across the street in an apartment building, and they saw what was going on. They saw me out there. It was about probably about seven o’clock at night. It was early at night and they put a call in 10-1 and call in 10-1. Assist the officer. Is that a assist the officer? It’s 1031. Police been in trouble. Yeah. And the squad’s from everywhere. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So you can hear, you can hear them coming. And now one of them says to me, and I know they’re pretty close. One of them says to me, you know, put away your gun and we’ll see how tough you are. And I did. [22:42] Because you know they’re close. And I’m busy fighting with a couple of them. And they start running and I grab onto two of them. I’m holding onto them. I could only hold two. I couldn’t hold anymore. And the next thing I know, I wake up in the hospital about four days later. Wow. What had happened was they pushed me. Somebody, there was another one behind who pushed me right in front of a squad car coming down the street. Oh, shit. Yeah, man. And the car ran completely over me. They pulled me off from under the, just under the back wheels, I was told were right next to, were onto me, blood all over the place. Everybody thought I was dead. Right. Because my brothers, my one brother who was a police kid that, you know, heard all the noise and the family came in. I tried to prostrate my house and they all thought I was dead. But anyhow, I wake up in the hospital about three days later. When I wake up in the hospital, I’m like. [23:54] Every bone of my body was broken. I’m up there like a mummy. And the mayor came to see me. All kinds of people came to see me. They made me into an even bigger star in my neighborhood. The Count lives down the street and is seeing all this stuff about me and whatever. Jumping quickly to another thing, which got me furious. Willie Grimes was the cop that was driving this quad. He was a racist. We had some blacks in the job. He was a total racist. When my brother and when some others were doing their best to try to find these people, he was protecting them. Some of them, if they caught, he was protecting them. [24:48] I was off the job for like nine months when I came back to work. I never came to the hospital to see me. I mean, everybody came. Every day, my hospital went. Because one of the nurses that I was dating, in fact, she was one of those killed. That’s when Richard Speck wound up killing her and some of the others at the same time. It was at the South Chicago Hospital. Holy darn. What they did for me, I had buckets in my womb with ice. We were bringing beer and pizzas and whatever. Every day was like a party in there. When I finally came back to work, it was 11 o’clock at night. I worked out in South Chicago, and I’m sitting in the parking lot, and the media is there. The media, they had all kinds of cameras there. Robert Cooley’s coming back to work after like nine months. They wouldn’t let me go back. [25:51] I’m walking by the squads. And Willie was a big guy. He was probably about 220, a big one of these big muscle builders and all that nonsense. [26:04] He’s sitting in the first car. The cars are all lined up because when we would change, when we would change at like 11 30 uh you know the cars would all be waiting we jumped into the cars and off we go as i’m walking by the car i hear aren’t you afraid to walk in front of my car. [26:26] I look over and he had a distinctive voice i walk over to the car and i reach in and i start punching them, and I’m trying to drag them out of the car. The cameras, the cameras are, you know, they’re all basically inside. They’re all inside. You know, as you walk in there, they’re all inside there. When I do, I eventually walk up there. But the other police came, and they dragged me. They dragged me away, and they brought me in, and whatever. We got transferred out the next day out of the district. And the first policeman I meet is Rick, Rick Dorelli, who’s connected with, who’s a monster. He’s connected with them. And, and he’s the one who told me, he said to me, you know, we played cards and he realized I was a gambler, but I had never dealt with bookmakers. And he said, he says, yeah, you want to make some money? You want to make some easy money? Well, yeah, sure. You know, uh, you know, and thinking that’s, you know, working security or something like that, like I had done back in Chicago, you know, like I had done on the south side. And he said, I want you to make some bets for me with somebody who said. [27:43] And I remember him using the term. He said, I want you to be my face. He said, and I want you to make some bets for me. He said, and he said, and if you, if you’ll do it, I’ll give you a hundred dollars a week just to make the bets for me. And then, you know, and then meet with these people and pay these people off. And I said, sure. You know, I said, you know, why? He says, because I can’t play with these. people he said i’m connected with him he said and i’m not allowed to gamble myself he said but he told me he said i’ve got a couple people i take bets from i’ve got my own side deal going so i want you to do it i want you to do it and i’ll give i’ll give you to them as a customer, and you’re gonna be a customer and he’s and he tells people now that i got this other police He’s in law school. He comes from a real wealthy family, and he’s looking for a place to bet. He’s in Gambia. He’s looking for a place to bet. [28:47] So I call this number, and I talk to this guy. He gives me a number. When you bet, you call, and you do this, and you do that. And I’m going to get $100 at the end of the week. Now, I’m making $5,200 a year, and they’re taking money out of my chest. I’m going to double my salary. I’m going to double my salary immediately. Why wouldn’t you do it? That’s fantastic money at the time. So I start doing it. And the first week I’m doing it, it was baseball season. [29:19] And I’m making these bets. He’s betting $500 a game on a number of games. And he’s winning some, he’s losing some. But now, when I’m checking my numbers with the guy there, he owes, at the end of the week, he owes $3,500. [29:38] And now, it’s getting bigger and bigger, he’s losing. I’m getting worried. What have I got myself into? Yeah, because it’s not him losing, it’s you losing to the bookie. That’s what I’m thinking. I’m thinking, holy, holy, Christopher, I’m thinking. But, you know, I’ve already jumped off the building. So anyhow. I’d be thinking, you better come up with a jack, dude. It’s time to pay up, man. Anyhow, so when I come to work the next day, I’m supposed to meet this guy at one of the clubs out there in the western suburbs. [30:21] I’m supposed to meet the bookmaker out there. And Ricky meets me that morning, and he gives me the money. It’s like $3,400, and here’s $100 for you. Bingo. That’s great. So, okay. When I go to make the payment to him, it’s a nightclub, and I got some money in my pocket. Somebody, one of the guys, some guy walks up. I’m sitting at the bar and, you know, I hear you’re a copper. I said, pardon me? He says, I hear you’re a copper. He was a big guy. Yeah. I hear you’re a copper. Because at that time, I still only weighed maybe like, well, maybe 60, 65 pounds. I mean, I was in fantastic shape, but I wasn’t real big. And I said, I’m a policeman. I don’t like policemen. I said, go fuck yourself. or something like that. And before he could do anything, I labeled him. That was my first of about a half a dozen fights in those different bars out there. [31:32] And the fights only lasted a few minutes because I would knock the person down. And if the person was real big, at times I’d get on top and just keep pounding before they could do anything. So I started with a reputation with those people at that time now as I’m, going through my world with these people oh no let’s stay with that one area now after the second week he loses again, this time not as much but he loses again and I’m thinking wow, He’s betting, and I’m contacted by a couple of people there. Yeah. Because these are all bookmakers there, and they see me paying off. So I’m going to be, listen, if you want another place to play, and I say, well, yeah. So my thought is, with baseball, it’s a game where you’re laying a price, laying 160, laying 170, laying 180. So if you lose $500, if you lose, you pay $850, and if you win, you only get $500. [32:52] I’ve got a couple of people now, and they’ve got different lines. And what I can do now is I check with their lines. I check with Ricky’s guy and see what his line is. And I start moving his money elsewhere where I’ve got a 30, 40, sometimes 50 cent difference in the price. So I’d set it up where no matter what, I’m going to make some money, No matter what happens, I’ll make some money. But what I’m also doing is I’m making my own bets in there that will be covered. And as I start early winning, maybe for that week I win maybe $1,000, $1,500. And then as I meet other people and I’m making payments, within about four or five months, I’ve got 10 different bookmakers I’m dealing with. Who I’m dealing with. And it’s become like a business. I’m getting all the business from him, 500 a game, whatever. And I’ve got other people that are betting, you know, are betting big, who are betting through me. And I’m making all kinds of money at that time. [34:14] But anyhow, now I mentioned a number of people, A number of people are, I’ve been with a number of people that got killed after dinner. One of the first ones was Tony Borsellino, a bookmaker. Tony was connected with the Northside people, with DeVarco, the one they called DeVarco. And we had gone to a we had gone to a I knew he was a hit man, we had gone to a basketball game over at DePaul because he had become a good friend of mine he liked hanging with me, because I was because at that time now I’m representing the main madams in Chicago too and they loved being around me they liked going wherever I was going to go so I always had all kinds of We left the ladies around. And we went to the basketball game. Afterwards, we went to a restaurant, a steakhouse on Chicago Avenue. [35:26] Gee, why can’t I think of a name right now? We went to a steakhouse, and we had dinner. And when we finished up, it came over there. And when we finished up, I’d been there probably half a dozen times with him. And he was there with his girlfriend. We had dinner and about, I’d say it was maybe 10, 30, 11 o’clock, he says, you know, Bob, can you do me a favor? What’s that? Can you drop her off? He said, I have to go meet some friends. I have to go meet some friends of ours. And, you know, okay, sure, Tony, not a problem. And, you know, I took her home. [36:09] The next day I wake up, Tony Barcellino was found dead. They killed him. He was found with some bullets in the back of his head. They killed him. Holy Christopher. And that’s my first—I found that I had been killed before that. But, you know, wow, that was—, prior to that, when I was betting, there was i paid off a bookmaker a guy named uh ritten shirt, rittenger yeah john rittenger yeah yeah yeah he was a personal friend yeah was he a personal friend of yours yeah they offed him too well i in fact i he i was paying him i met him to pay him I owed him around $4,500, and I met him at Greco’s at my restaurant he wanted to meet me out there because he wanted to talk to me about something else he had a problem some kind of a problem I can’t remember what that was. [37:19] But he wanted to meet me at the restaurant so I met him at Greco’s, And I paid him the money. We talked for a while. And then he says, you know, I got to go. I got to go meet somebody. I got to go meet somebody else. I got to go straight now with somebody else. And he said, I’ll give you a call. He said, I’ll give you a call later. He said, because, you know, I want to talk to you about a problem that I have. He says, I want to talk to you about a problem that I have. I said, okay, sure. He goes to a pizza place. Up there in the Taylor Street area. That’s where he met Butchie and Harry. In fact, at the time, I knew both of them. Yeah, guys, that’s Butch Petrucelli and Harry Alem and a couple of really well-known mob outfit hitmen. Yeah, and they’re the ones that kill them. I’m thinking afterwards, I mean, But, you know, I wish I hadn’t, I wish I hadn’t, you know, I wish I could save him. I just gave him. Man, you’re cold, man. [38:34] You could have walked with that money. That’s what I’m saying. So now, another situation. Let me cut in here a minute, guys. As I remember this Reitlinger hit, Joe Ferriola was a crew boss, and he was trying to line up all the bookies, as he called it. He wanted to line them up like Al Capone lined up all the speaks, that all the bookies had to fall in line and kick something into the outfit, and Reitlinger wouldn’t do it. He refused to do it no matter. They kept coming to him and asking him his way. I understand that. Is that what you remember? I knew him very well. Yeah. He was not the boss. Oh, the Ferriola? Yeah, he wasn’t the boss, but he was kind of the, he had a crew. He was the boss of the Cicero crew. Right. I saw Joe all the time at the racetrack. In fact, I’m the one who, I’m the one, by the time when I started wearing a wire, I was bringing undercover agents over. I was responsible for all that family secret stuff that happened down the road. Oh, really? You set the stage for all that? I’m the one who put them all in jail. All of them. [39:52] So anyhow, we’re kind of getting ahead of ourselves. Reitlinger’s been killed. Joe Borelli or Ricky Borelli’s been killed. These guys are dropping around you, and you’re getting drawn into it deeper and deeper, it sounds to me like. Now, is this when you – what happens? How do you get drawn into this Chicago outfit even more and more as a bookie? Were you kicking up, too? Well, it started, it started, so many things happened that it just fell into place. It started, like I say, with building a reputation like I had. But the final situation in terms of with all the mobsters thinking that I’m not just a tough guy, I’m a bad guy. [40:35] When I get a call, when Joey Cosella, Joey Cosella was a big, tough Italian kid. And he was involved heavily in bookmaking, and we became real close friends. Joey and I became real close friends. He raised Dobermans, and he’s the one who had the lion over at the car dealership. I get a call from Joey. He says, you’ve got to come over. I said, what’s up? He says, some guys came in, and they’re going to kill the count. They want to kill the count. And I said, And I said, what? This is before the Pewter thing. I said, what do you mean? And so I drive over there, and he says, Sammy Annarino and Pete Cucci. And Pete Cucci came in here, and they came in with shotguns, and they were going to kill them. I said, this was Chicago at the time. It’s hard to believe, but this was Chicago. And I said, who are they? I didn’t know who they were. I said, who are they? I mean, I didn’t know them by name. It turns out I did know them, but I didn’t know them by name. They were people that were always in Greco’s, and everybody in Greco knew me because I’m the owner. [41:49] But anyhow, so I get a hold of Marco, and I said, Marco, and I told him what happened. I said, these guys, a couple of guys come in there looking for the talent. That are going to kill him because apparently he extorted somebody out of his business. And I said, who were they with? And he said, they were with Jimmy the bomber. They were with Jimmy Couture. [42:15] I said, oh, they’re for legit then? I said, yeah. I said, can you call? I said, call Jimmy. I knew who he was. He was at the restaurant all the time. He was at Threatfuls all the time with a lot of these other people. And I met him, but I had no interest in him. He didn’t seem like a very friendly sort of anyone. I could care less about him. I represented a lot of guys that worked for him, that were involved with problems, but never really had a conversation with him other than I. [42:53] I’m the owner. So I met with him. I wrote about that in the book. I met with them and got that straightened out where the count’s going to pay $25,000 and you’ll get a contract to the… He ripped off some guy out of a parlor, one of those massage parlors, not massage parlor, but one of those adult bookstores that were big money deals. Oh, yeah. So when I go to meet these guys, I’m told, go meet them and straighten this thing out. So I took Colin with me over to a motel right down the street from the racetrack, right down from the racetrack, and I met with him. I met with Pete Gucci. He was the boss of, you know, this sort of loop. When I get finished talking with him, I come back, and here’s the count and Sammy, and Sammy’s picking a fork with his finger and saying, you know, I rip out eyes with these. [43:56] And the count says, I rip out eyes with these. And I said, what the fuck is going on here? I said, Pete, I said, you know, get him the fuck out of here. And you all at the count said, what’s the matter with you? You know, these guys are going to kill him. And now the moment I get involved in it, he knows he’s not going to have a problem. You know, he’s pulling this nonsense. [44:23] So anyhow, this is how I meet Pete Gucci and Sammy Annarino. After a while, I stopped hanging around with the count because he was starting to go off the deep end. Yeah. Yeah. [44:39] And we were at a party, a bear party with, I remember Willie Holman was there, and they were mostly black, the black guys up there on the south side. And I had just met this girl a day or two before, and the count says, you know, let’s go up to a party, a bear’s party up there on Lakeshore Drive. If we go up there, we go to this party, it’s going to be about maybe 35, 40 people in there, one or two whites, other than the players. And other than that, we’re the only white people there. When we walk into the place, there’s a couple of guys out there with shotguns. It was in a motel. And you walk through like an area where you go in there, and there’s a couple of guys standing there with shotguns. We go in and we go upstairs and, hey, how are you? And we’re talking with people. And I go in one room. I’m in one room. [45:45] There were two rooms there. I’m in one room with a bunch of people and, you know, just talking and having a good old time. And the count was in the second room. And I hear Spade. He always called me Spade. Spade, Spade, you know. And I go in there, and he’s talking with Willie Holman. I remember it was one of them. He was the tackle, I think, with the Bears and a couple of others. And this whole room, all these black guys. And he goes, that’s Spade Cooley. He says, him and I will take on every one of you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we’re in a room, and he goes, that’s what he says. You know, him and I will take it on every one of you. And Willie did that. He calmed down. He’s telling him, calmed down. What the fuck? It was about a week or so after this. And because I had been out with the county, he’s calling me two or three times a week to go out. And we’re going, a lot of times it was these areas in the south side with a lot of blood. He liked being around Blacks. [47:00] That’s when I met Gail Sayers, and I met some of these others through him. But a lot of the parties and stuff were in the South Side out there, mostly Blacks and all. But we had gone someplace for dinner, and we’re heading back home. We’re heading back to my place, and we’re in his car. He had a brown Cadillac convertible. On the side of it, it had these, you know, the Count Dante press. And he always ran around. He ran around most of the time in these goofy, you know, these goofy outfits with capes and things like that. I’m driving and when we’re talking and I’m like distracted looking at him. And I’m waiting at a stoplight over there right off of Chicago Avenue. And as we’re there. [47:48] I barely touched the car in front of us, you know, as I’m drifting a little bit and barely touch it. There were four guys in the car and, you know, and the one guy jumps out first, one guy jumps out first and then second one, and they start screaming. And when the count gets out, the guy starts calling you, you faggot or something like that, you know, whatever. And as the other one gets out, I get out of the car. And the next thing I know, they jump back in the car, and they run through a red light, and they disappear. Somebody must have recognized them. One of the other people there must have realized who this is that they’re about to get into a little battle with. In fact, they ran the red light. They just ran the red light and disappeared. They come, no, no, no, no, no. And we go off to my apartment and I’m here with this girl, another girl I had just met a day or so before, because I was constantly meeting new people, uh, running around and, uh, we’re sitting on the couch. I’m sitting in the couch next to her and the count, the count was over there. And he suddenly says to her, he says, he says, this is one of the toughest people I’ve ever met. He said, and he says, tell her how tough you are. Tell her how tough you are. [49:10] I said, you know, I said, you know, you know, and he says, tell them how tough you are. And I said, John, you know, and he walks over, And he makes a motion like this towards me. And he barely touched my chin. But I thought he broke it. He then steps back and he goes, I got to cut this hand off. He says, you saved my life. He said, you saved my life. He said, the only two friends I’ve had in the world were my father and you. He says, I wasn’t even that crazy about my mother. That’s when I said then he goes and he stands and I’m looking at it now he stands up against the window I looked up on the 29th floor, he stands by the window he says get your gun he says and I want you to aim it at me, and say now before you pull the trigger and I’ll stop the bullet, I’ll stop the bullet this guy was nuts and I said I said, what? [50:28] He says, before you pull the trigger. [50:36] Tell me before you pull the trigger and I’ll stop the bullet. He wanted me to shoot him. He stopped the bullet. When I got him out of there, Now when he’s calling me, I’m busy. I’m busy. Once in a while, I’d meet him someplace. No more driving or whatever. That was smart. I hadn’t seen him in probably five or six months. And this is, again, after the situation when I had met with Anna Randall and Gooch and the others. I’m up in my office and I get a I get a call from the county, and he said and I hadn’t probably seen him even maybe in a month or two at all and he said, can I come over and talk to you and I was playing cards in fact I had card games up in my office and, we called him Commissioner. [51:41] O’Malley Ray O’Malley, he was the head of the police department at night. On midnights, he got there at 4 to 12. He started at 4 to 12 until midnights. He was the head of them. He was the commissioner. He was in charge of the whole department. He used to play cards up in my office. We had big card games up in my office. And when he’d come up there, we’d have the blue goose parked out in front. We’d have his bodyguard sitting out there by my door. When he was playing in the games. This went on for a couple of years. [52:15] I was at the office, but, you know, I’m at the office playing cards. [52:20] And I had a, it was a big suite. We had, you know, my office was a big office in this suite. We had about six other, you know, big, big suites in there. And so he comes over, he comes over to meet with me. And so I figure he’s in trouble. He’s arrested. He says, I’ve got a situation going. He says, well, you can get a million dollars. And he said, but if I tell you what it is, he says, and you’re in, he said, you got to be in. I’ll tell you what it is. I said, John, if I need money, I said, you get $2 million, then you can loan me if you want, but I don’t want to know what it is. I said, I just don’t want to know what it is. [52:59] It was about a week or two later. It was a pure later, basically. It was a pure later caper. Yeah, guys, this was like the huge, huge. And the one he set it up with was Pete Gucci, the guy that was going to kill him. That was the one who set it up. I knew that. I thought I remembered that name from somewhere. I don’t remember. They ended up getting popped, but everybody got caught, and most of the money got returned. No, no. No bit that the outfit kept, I understand, if I remember right. What was the deal on that? There was more to it than that. Just before that happened, I go up, and Jerry Workman was another lawyer. Actually, he was attorney up in the office, post-rending bank. When I’m going up into the office, I see Pete Gucci there. This is probably a week or so after the situation with the count. Or maybe even a little bit longer than that. I said, Pete, what are you doing? I said, what are you doing here? Jerry Workston’s my lawyer. Oh, okay. [53:55] Okay. He said, I didn’t know you were off here. I said, yeah. I said, Jerry’s a good friend of mine. Okay. And as I’m walking away, he says, you tell your friend the count to stop calling me at two, three in the morning. He says, I got a wife and kids and whatever. And I said to him, I said, Pete, you got no business dealing. I don’t know what it is. I said, but you guys got no business dealing involved in anything. You got no business being involved with him. And I walked away. I see him and I see him as he’s leaving. I see him as he’s leaving and say goodbye to him. Jerry was going to be playing cards. [54:39] It was card night too. Jerry was going to be playing cards in my office because the people would come in usually about 9 o’clock, 9.30 is when the game would usually start. I talked with Jerry. He had been in there for a while. He was arrested a day or two later. The fbi comes in there because he had stashed about 35 000 in jerry’s couch oh really that was his bond money he got that was his bond money if he got to get bailed out to get him bailed out that was his bond money that was there that’s how bizarre so i got involved in so many situations like this but anyhow anyhow now sammy uh, So it’s about maybe a week or two later after this, when I’m in the car driving, I hear they robbed a purulator. The purulator was about a block and a half from my last police station. It was right down the street from the 18th district. That was the place that they robbed. And not long after that, word came out that supposedly a million dollars was dropped off in front of Jimmy the bomber, in front of his place. With Jimmy the bomber, both Sammy Ann Arino and Pete Gucci were under him. They were gunmen from his group. Now I get a call from, I get a count was never, you never heard the count’s name mentioned in there with anybody. [56:07] The guy from Boston, you know, who they indicated, you know, came in to set it up. The count knew him from Boston. The count had some schools in Boston. And this was one of his students. And that’s how he knew this guy from Boston that got caught trying to take a, trying to leave the country with, you know, with a couple thousand, a couple million dollars of the money. Yeah, I read that. It was going down to the Caribbean somewhere and they caught him. And Sammy Ann Arino didn’t get involved in that. He wasn’t involved in that because I think he was back in the prison at the time. [56:44] Now, when he’s out of prison, probably no more than about maybe three or four months after all that toilet stuff had died down, I get a call from Sam, and he wants me to represent him because he was arrested. What happened was he was shot in a car. He was in a car, and he had gotten shot. And when they shot him, he kicked out the window and somehow fought the guys off. When they found him there in the car and in his trunk, they found a hit kit. They said it was a hit kit. How could they know? It was a box that had core form in it, a ski mask, a ski mask, a gun, a gun with tape wrapped around it and the rest of it. Yeah. And he’s an extra time. Mask and tape or little bits of rope and shit like that. I’d say no. So he was charged with it, and he was charged with it in his case, and he had a case coming up. I met him the first time I met him. He came by my office, and he said, you know, and I said, no, that’s not a problem. And he says, but I’ve got to use Eddie Jensen, too. [57:52] And I said, I said, what do you mean? I said, you don’t need Eddie. And he says, I was told I have to use him. Jimmy Couture, his boy, he said, I have to use him. I know why, because Eddie lets these mobsters know whenever anybody’s an informant, or if he’s mad at somebody, he can tell him he’s an informant, they get killed. And so I said, you know, that piece of shit. I said, you know, I want nothing to do with him. I had some interesting run-ins with him before, and I said, I want nothing to do with that worthless piece of shit. You know, he’s a jagoff. And I said, you know, I says, no. He said, please. I said, no. I said, Sammy, you know, you don’t need me. He knows the judge like I know the judge, Sardini. I said, you know, you’re not going to have a problem in there. I get a call from him again, maybe four or five days after that. He’s out of my restaurant and he says, Bob, please. He said, You know, he says, please, can I meet you? He says, I got a problem. I go out to the meeting. And so I thought, there’s something new. I want you to represent me. I want you to represent me, you know, on the case. And I says, did you get rid of that fence? He says, no, I have to use him. But I says, look, I’m not going to, I want, no, Sammy, no, I’m not going to do it. He leaves the restaurant. He gets about a mile and a half away. He gets shotgunned and he gets killed. In fact, I read about that a couple of days ago. [59:22] I know it’s bullshit. They said he was leaving the restaurant. It was Marabelli’s. It was Marabelli’s Furniture Store. They said he was leaving the furniture store. What they did was they stopped traffic out there. They had people on the one side of the street, the other side of the street, and they followed, they chased him. When he got out of his car and was going to the furniture store, They blasted him with shotguns. They made sure he was killed this time. After that happened, it’s about maybe three or four days after that, I’m up in my office and I get a call. All right, when I come out, I always parked in front of City Hall. That was my parking spot. Mike and CM saved my spot. I parked there, or I parked in the bus stop, or in the mayor’s spot. Those were my spots. They saved it for me. I mean, that was it, for three, four, five years. That’s how it was. I didn’t want to wait in line in the parking lot. So my car is parked right in front of the parking lot. And as I go to get in my car, just fast, fast, so walking, because he was at 134 right down the street from my office and he parks like everybody else in the parking lot so he can wait 20 minutes to get his car. [1:00:40] And, and, and Bob, Bob, and, you know, and when I meet up with him, I’m both standing and we’re both standing right there in front of the, in front of the, uh, the parking lot. And he was a big guy. He weighed probably about 280, 290, maybe more. You know, mushy, mushy type, not in good shape at all. In fact, he walked with a gimp or whatever. And he says, you better be careful, he says. Jimmy Couture is furious. He heard what you’ve been saying about me. [1:01:17] You’ve been saying about me. and something’s liable to happen. And I went reserved. I grabbed him, and I threw him up on the wall, and I says, you motherfuckers. I said, my friends are killing your friends. [1:01:34] I said, my friends, because he represented a number of these groups, but I’m with the most powerful group of all. And when I say I’m with him, I’m with him day and night, not like him just as their lawyer. Most of them hated him, too, because most of them knew what he was doing. Yeah most of these and most of these guys hated him and i said you know but i and and i just like you’re kissing his pants and i don’t know if he crapped in his pants too and uh you know because i just turned around i left that same night jimmy katura winds up getting six in the back of the head maybe three miles from where that took place yeah he was uh some kind of trouble been going on for a while. He was a guy who was like in that cop shop racket, and he had been killing some people involved with that. He was kind of like out away from the main crew closer to downtown, is my understanding. Like, you were in who were you in? Who was I talking about? Jimmy Couture? Jimmy Couture, yeah. He was no, Jimmy Couture was Jimmy Couture, in fact, all these killers, we’ll try and stay with this a little bit first. Jimmy Couture was a boss and he had probably about maybe a dozen, maybe more in his crew and, He didn’t get the message, I’m sure. [1:03:01] Eddie Jensen firmly believes, obviously, because it’s the same day and same night when I tell him that my friends are killing your friends. [1:03:14] He’s telling everybody that I had him kill, I’m sure. Yeah, yeah. Because it was about another few days after that when I’m out in Evanston going to a courthouse. And there you had to park down the street because there was no parking lot. Here I hear Eddie, you know, stay. I’m going to say Bob, Bob. And when he gets up, he says, Bob, he says, when I told you, I think you misunderstood. When I told you it was Jimmy Cattrone. it was it was jimmy katron was a lawyer that you know worked in out of his office close friend of mine too he was a good friend of mine it was jimmy it was jimmy katron that you know not because he obviously thought he believed so he’s got all these mobsters too bosses and all the rest thinking that i was involved in that when i when i wasn’t uh when i was when i wasn’t actually But it’s so amazing, Gary. And that’s one of a dozen stories of the same sort. I met unbelievable people. I mean, we’re talking about in New Orleans. We’re talking about in Boston. Now, if you were to say, who were you with? Always somebody’s with somebody. Were you with any particular crew or any particular crew. [1:04:41] Buzz, were you totally independent? [1:04:46] Everybody knew me to be with the Elmwood Park crew. And that was Jackie Cerrone before Michael, I mean, before Johnny DeFranco. That was Jackie Cerrone. Okay. That was Giancana. That was Mo Giancana. Mo was moving at the clubhouse all the time. That was the major people. [1:05:13] And where was their clubhouse? What did they call their clubhouse? Was that the Survivors Clubhouse, or what was the name of their operation? Every group had one, sometimes more clubhouses. Right. That was where they would have card games in there. They’d have all kinds of other things going. the place was full of like in Marcos I call it Marcos but it was actually Jackie Sharon’s when I first got involved Jackie Sharon was the boss who became a good friend of mine, Jackie Sharon was the boss and Johnny DeFranco was, right under him and then a number of others as we go down, our group alone we had. [1:06:04] Minimum, I’d say, a thousand or more people in our group alone. And who knows how many others, because we had control of the sheriff’s office, of the police department, of the sheriff, of the attorney general. We had control of all that through the elections. We controlled all that. So you had 1,000 people. You’re talking about all these different people who we would maybe call associates. It would be in and out of our club all the time. Okay. Yeah. We’re talking a number of policemen, a number of policemen, a number of different politicians of all sorts that we had. I knew dozens of people with no-show jobs there. We had control of all the departments, streets and sanitation, of absolutely urbanizing. We controlled all the way up to the Supreme Court. What about the first ward, Pat Marcy, and the first ward now? Was your crew and Jackie Cerrone’s crew, did that fall into the first ward, or were they totally there? How did that relate, the Pat Marcy and the politicians? And I found out all this over a period of time. [1:07:28] Everything had changed right about the time I first got involved with these people. All these people you’ve read about, no one knows they were still alive. I met just about all of them when I got connected over there with the first word. A lot of the, we were talking about the gunmen themselves. All the Jackie not just Jackie but I’m talking about Milwaukee Phil Milwaukee Phil and all the rest of them they were over there at Councilors Row all the time because when they were to meet Pat Marcy, what they had there in the first war and, It just so happened, when I started in my office, it was with Alan Ackerman, who was at 100 North, where all their offices were upstairs. The first ward office was upstairs. [1:08:22] And below the office, two floors below, I found out on this when I got involved with them, we had an office. looked like it was a vacant office because the windows were all blackened out. That’s where he had all the meetings with people. When Arcado or Yupa, anybody else, any of the other people came in, this is where he met them. When the people from out of town came in, we’re talking about when, what do you think? [1:08:58] But when Alpha, when Fitzgerald, when all these people would come in, this is where they would have their meetings. Or these are the ones who would be out with us on these casino rides. When these people came in, this is where they would do the real talking because we’d go to different restaurants that weren’t bugged. If this office was checked every day, the one that they had down below, and nobody, nobody, their office was, I think it was on the 28th floor, the first ward office. You had the first ward office, and right next to it, you had the insurance office when everybody had to buy their insurance. Obviously at upper rates big office connected to the first ward office when the back there’s a door that goes right into into theirs but the people were told you never get off or you get off you get off at the office floor but then you you walk you you get off it and i’m sorry you get off it at the. [1:10:11] You don’t get off at the first ward office you get off at one of the other offices one of the other offices or the other floors and when you come in there, then you’ll be taken someplace else after that a double shop that’s where they would go and in fact when I had to talk to Petter Cary messages or whatever people like Marco couldn’t talk to Marcy. [1:10:41] Only a few people could. Only people at the very top level could. Marco, he was a major boss. He could not talk to Marco. If he needed, you know, whatever. Marco D’Amico. Marco was, you had, Marco was the one right under Johnny DeFonza. Yeah. Marco’s the one that was in charge. He was the one who was in charge of all the gambling. Not just in Chicago, but around all those areas in Cook County. We had not just Chicago. They were also the ones that were in charge of all the street tax, collecting all the street tax. That’s where the big, big money was also. Everybody paid. What happened was in the 70s, right as I got involved

Gee airs some grievences about flying, Seahawks run game sets the tone/ How were the holidays // AGREE TO DISAGREE: Has 2025 been the most fun year for Seattle Sports fans? // WE HEAR YOU! and WORDS TO LIVE BY

Have you ever made one too many mistakes? You know, you get to a point where you think, That's it! God must be done with me? Well, Abraham was a man of faith who made plenty of mistakes along the way. Yet God seemed to overlook, even o compensate for them. Why was that?   Life Changing Moments As we travel through life we all kind of experience these moments and often they are seemingly insignificant events that in fact, turn out to change the whole course of our lives. It's amazing when you think about it! We all have a plan for our lives but there are things just around the next corner or just over the next rise that can change everything – good things and bad things, happy things and sad things. Some people think, "Well, it's all a matter of chance." Well, I don't believe in chance. I remember a brochure that changed my life. I was attending a little church – I had not long become a Christian and it was a Sunday service like every other Sunday. At the end of the service I walked to the back of the little church and I saw a brochure for a particular Bible College, Tabor College in Sydney. It wasn't a particularly attractive brochure or a well designed brochure – I picked it up and that was a defining moment – I took it home, I read about this ministry degree, I prayed and I felt this incredibly strong tug in my heart. Now in my mind I am thinking, "There's no way. You know Berni, you have been a Christian for five minutes" but in my heart I knew. So I rang them, I applied, I went to see the Principal, I felt like such a fraud. "They are never going to accept me." They did! And there I learned so much but also, by chance again, I came into contact with my predecessor in this ministry; the former CEO of Christianityworks and one thing led to another. And today I'm doing what I am doing because I picked up that little brochure at the back of the church. Now I had no idea that morning that something would happen that would change the course of my life. This week we are starting a new series on Christianityworks, it's called "Defining Moments". It's really exciting! I want to look at this from a different perspective; from God's perspective. See when we look back on our lives most of us can pick three or four, maybe half a dozen defining moments – those little things that seemed to change the whole course of our lives. Now, sure we can see them from our natural human perspective – after all, we are people; we're human, but if we do that I think we miss the point. I want to look at some defining moments in the lives of four people in the Bible – Abraham, Joseph, David and Josiah over the next four weeks and we are starting today with Abraham. I want to see if we can discover how God reaches into our lives with miracles - great and small to define the very course of our lives because God does have a plan. Psalm 139, verse 16, says: Your eyes beheld my unformed substance. In Your book were written all the days that were formed for me when none of them as yet existed. And when we at least expect it, and even despite what you and I do or fail to do, His plan is worked out through His grace for His glory. God brings those defining moments. Let's start with Abraham - the man with whom God's engagement of His chosen people began. He was living comfortably in a place called Ur, east of Israel – of course Israel didn't exist back then. Ur was the land of the Chaldeans, later it was called Babylon – it's just south of modern day Baghdad. And he travelled with his father up to Haran and then God called him to leave his comfort and follow this really crazy, absolutely incredulous promise. Let's pick it up – if you have got a Bible, grab it; open it up at Genesis chapter 12. We are going to look at the story of Abraham – it's too much to look at it all in one programme but we are going to have a look at part of his story. Genesis chapter 12, beginning at verse 1: Now the Lord said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. I will make of you a great nation. I will bless you and make your name great so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you and the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed. So Abram when as the Lord had told him and Lot when with him. Abram was seventy five years old when he departed form Haran." Seventy five years old! "He and Sarai his wife and they were childless." You see, you have to remember, in the Old Testament, blessing; God's blessing, you knew you had it when you had lots of land and lots of children. They had neither, so they didn't have God's blessing on their lives. Now the word "Abram" means "exalted father". So even his name was a joke, but still he went, off into the never never, based on what – some intangible, crazy call from God? Remember Abram had no Bible; he had no Scriptures to reveal who God was. He had no church tradition, or Jewish tradition – nothing like that. All the other nations had their gods; idols – they worshipped them, they believed all sorts of weird and wonderful things but Abram put his faith; he put his whole life and all his possessions in this God who came up with this incredulous promise. How did God say this to Abram - through an audible voice, a dream, a vision, a whisper of the Spirit in his heart? We don't know but he just heard the call and he trusted in the promises of God and off he went, into the blue yonder. Now God's plan A, remember, is to bless Abram with land and children – impossible of course! Oozes fantasy, not faith – could never happen. And then begins Abram's comedy of errors – pretty tragic actually. We don't have time to look at them all today but we are going to look at some of them. It's a journey where Abram and Sarai his wife, made plenty of mistakes along the way. Take Lot for instance, his nephew – if you look at Genesis chapter 12 again, did God tell Abram to take Lot with him? Not at all – it was Abram's idea. No doubt, this was plan B for Abram. "Well, if God doesn't come through on this promise of a son, at least I'll have a relative to be my heir" and Lot…..Lot causes him all sorts of grief. Let's have a look – Genesis chapter 13, verse 5: Now Lot who went with Abram, also had flocks and herds and tents so that the land couldn't support both of them living together, for their possessions were so great that they could not live together. And there was strife between the herders of Abram's stock and the herders of Lot's stock. At that time the Canaanites and the Perizzites lived in the land. Then Abram said to Lot, "Let there be no strife between you and me – between your herders and my herders for we are kindred. Is not the whole land before you? Separate yourself from me. If you take the left hand, then I'll go to the right; of you take the right hand, then I will go to the left." Lot looked about him and saw the plain of the Jordan that was well watered everywhere like this garden of the Lord; like the land of Egypt, in the direction of Zoar - this was before the Lord had destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. So Lot chose for himself all the plain of Jordan and Lot eastward thus he separated from Abram. Gee, plan B worked really well for Abram didn't it? Obviously God didn't know what He was promising Abram and needed a back up! And look how it turned out! Strife, separation and then Abram gave away the best half of the Promised Land. And if you read on in chapter 14, Abram risks his life and God's plan because he has to fight a battle to save Lot's life. Lot was not part of plan A and in chapter 19 of Genesis (we won't go there for now for time reasons) but he ends up sleeping with his own daughters and fathers the Moabites and the Ammonites; both nations that became enemies of Israel. Huh – well done Abram! God obviously needed your help!!   Who Can Blame Him? Well, who can blame Abram? He is in his late seventies now on a journey to nowhere and Sarai is no spring chicken either, I have to tell you. And God gives him this utterly incongruous, impossible promise and Abram is aching inside. "God, what are You doing?"  Can you relate to that? I can! Let's have a look at the defining moment in Abram's journey. It begins in Genesis chapter 15, verse 1: After these things the Word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision: "Don't be afraid, Abram, I am your shield. Your reward shall be very great." But Abram said, "Lord God, what will You give me for I continue childless and the heir of my house is Eliezer, son of Damascus?" And Abram said, "You have given me no offspring and so a slave born in my house is to be my heir." But the Word of the Lord came to him, "This man shall not be your heir. No one but a son coming from your very own body shall be your heir." God brought him outside and said, "Look toward the heaven and count the stars, if you are able to count them." Then the Lord said to him, "So shall your descendants be!" And Abram believed the Lord and the Lord reckoned it to him as righteousness. I reckon this is one of the most beautiful passages in the Bible. Is Abram a man of faith? Absolutely! But he is struggling – he has tried everything he can do in his own strength and he can't make this promise from God happen and time is marching on. So through his doubt, he ends up with plan C or D or whatever he is up to. How does God respond – with rebuke, with punishment, with discipline? God brought him outside and said, "Look toward the heaven and count the start, if you are able to count them." Then God said "So will your descendants be! Isn't it beautiful? You know, the Milky Way when you get away from the smog and the lights of the city is just the most awesome thing – there are so many stars out there – it almost looks like clouds. Trillions of stars – this is the love of God! And he believed the Lord and the Lord reckoned it to him as righteousness. Abram's faith meant that God's righteousness became part of who he was. It's a theme the Apostle Paul picks up in Romans chapter 4 and in Galatians chapter 3 in the New Testament, much later. See I struggle with the rose coloured glasses that Paul and others in the New Testament use to look back on Abraham. They paint him as this paragon of virtue; this great man of faith. Hebrews chapter 11, beginning at verse 8: By faith Abraham, when he was called to go to a place he would later receive as an inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he didn't know where he was going. By faith he made his home in the Promised Land like a stranger in a foreign country, for he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. By faith Abraham, even though he was past age and Sarah herself was barren, was enabled to become a father. That's great but what about all of Abraham blunders? What about his lack of faith? He goes to God and says to God, "What will You give me? What will You show me? I can't see it – I'm losing hope." See, Abraham was human – Abraham had human failures and he made mistakes just like you and me - but the answer is in what we just read in Genesis. How is it that despite all of Abraham's blunders and doubts, God's plan still came to fruition? Because Abraham: "believed the Lord and the Lord reckoned it to him as righteousness." Abraham believed – he didn't do it perfectly – but he believed and this was counted by God as righteousness. The righteousness of God when we believe, He forgives our sins – He forgets them. "As far as the east is from the west, so far does He remove our transgressions from us." You see, that's why in the New Testament it doesn't talk about Abraham's mistakes because God has forgiven them and they are not relevant. That's how God deals with Abraham's human failings. This is the defining moment in Abraham's journey: he believed the Lord and the Lord reckoned it to him as righteousness. This night that was like any other; he was in his tent; he was struggling; he was praying; he was saying, 'God, what are you doing?' And God just touches him and brings him outside and says, "Look up at the stars; as many as are there so numerous will be your descendants." It's not about what Abraham did or didn't do. The defining moment is about God's grace! And come and look with me exactly how imperfectly Abraham believed. Come and see with me how human and frail his faith actually is. He is credited with righteousness – God speaks to him and right on the back of that, just two verses later, in Genesis chapter 15, verse 8, begins this: But he said "O Lord, God, how am I to know I shall possess it?" And God said to him, "Bring Me a heifer three years old, a female goat three years old, a ram three years old, a turtle dove and a young pigeon." He brought God all those things and cut them in two, laying each half over against the other but he did not cut the birds in two. And when the birds of prey came down on the carcasses, Abraham drove them away. As the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abraham and a deep and terrifying darkness descended upon him. Then the Lord said to Abraham, "Know this for certain that your offspring shall be aliens in a land that is not theirs and they shall be slaves there and they shall be oppressed there for four hundred years but I will bring judgement on the nation that they serve and afterward they shall come out with great possessions. As for you yourself, you shall go with your ancestors in peace and you shall be buried in a good old age. And they shall come back here in the fourth generation for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete." When the sun had gone down and it was dark, and a smoking fire pot and a flaming torch passed between these pieces. On that day (listen to this) On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abraham, saying, "To your descendants I give this land – from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates and the land of the Kenites and the Kenizzites and the Kadmonites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Raphaim and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Girgashites and the Jebusites." See, in the face of further doubt from Abraham, God gives him this vision and he makes an unbreakable promise; a covenant; a promise from God Himself to Abraham.   The Last Laugh Just as well, this covenant from God was an unbreakable promise because what happens next, after the stars thing and the vision and the promise, would have been the final straw for me if I had been God. Have a look at the next Now Sarai, Abram's wife, bore him no children. She had an Egyptian slave girl whose name was Hagar and Sarai said to Abram, "You see the Lord has prevented me from bearing children. Go into my slave girl; it may be that I shall obtain children by her." Abram listened to the voice of his wife Sarai, so after Abram had lived ten years in the land of Canaan, Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar the Egyptian; her slave girl and gave her to her husband Abraham as a wife. He went into Hagar and she conceived and when she saw that she had conceived, she looked with contempt on her mistress. Then Sarai said to Abram, "May the wrong done to me be on you. I gave my slave girl to you to embrace and when she saw that she had conceived, she looked on me with contempt. May the Lord judge between you and me." Ok, men had more than one wife in those days but people haven't changed that much. Wives, how happy would you be with this outcome? Your husband sleeping with a slave girl and then all of a sudden the slave girl is pregnant. Can you see how perverted this is? And the son that Hagar bore was Ishmail and he became the father of the Arab world! Gee, that worked out brilliantly, didn't it? And so Abram, left to his own devices would have lurched from one blunder to the next but now the bit that really gets me about this story, is the ending. Both Abram and Sarai get to the point – I mean this has been going on for years now; decades where they just end up laughing at God's promises. I mean they are so ridiculous; they are so impossible – have a look – Abram first in Genesis chapter 17, verse 15: God said to Abram, "As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her Sarai anymore but Sarah shall be her name. I will bless her and moreover I will give you a son by her. I will bless her and she will give rise to nations; kings of peoples shall come from her." Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed and said to himself, "Can a child be born to a man who is a hundred years old? Can Sarah who is ninety years old bear a child?" And Abraham said to God, "O that Ishmail might live in Your sight." And God said, "No, but your wife Sarah shall bear you a son and you shall name him Isaac. I will establish My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his offspring after him." And then Sarah's turn next! God appears to Abraham in the form of three men and those men said to him, "Where is your wife Sarah?" And he said, "There, in the tent." Then one of them said, "I will surely return to you in due season and your wife Sarah shall have a son." And Sarah was listening at the tent entrance, behind them. Now Abraham and Sarah, they were old and advanced in age; it had ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women. So Sarah laughed to herself, "After I have grown old and my husband is old, shall I have the pleasure?" See, can you blame Abraham and Sarah for laughing at God? I mean if you don't laugh you will cry. It has been twenty five years – they headed away on this fool's errand into the blue yonder. Abraham is over a hundred – Sarah is over ninety – come on God, what do You think You are doing? But let's see how it ends! Genesis chapter 21: The Lord dealt with Sarah just as He had said and the Lord did for Sarah as He had promised. Sarah conceived and bore Abraham a son in his old age, at the time of which God had spoken. Abraham gave the name Isaac to his son whom Sarah had borne. Do you know what the word "Isaac" means? It means "he laughs" – you see God had the last laugh! They both laughed at God's promises and God gives them a son called Isaac and God has the last laugh! It's the laughter of God's grace. And when you look back on this journey, what was the defining moment? See, what you and I want to look at is say: "What do I have to do….what do I have to do? What do I have to do to get God's favour?" Isn't that what we are always thinking? And you look at all of Abraham's blunders and you see all the mistakes he made but in his heart he believed and it was reckoned unto him by God as righteousness. His faith trumped his failures! Let me say that again ... Abraham's faith trumped his failures! People came to Jesus years later and they said, "What must we do to perform the works of God?" And Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God: that you believe in the One whom He has sent." Do you get it? The defining moment for Abraham was God's gracious, loving, powerful, impossible, unbreakable, ridiculous, only God could ever do it, take it forever….promise. And in his heart Abraham believed. That's the bit that God saw and took and used and blessed Abraham through. That's why the New Testament writers can completely ignore the failures of Abraham because God….God had forgotten them a long time ago. God had decided to overlook them a long time ago. Abraham was not a perfect man – Abraham was human just like you and me. You make blunders in your life; I make blunders in my life. What does God look at? He looks at whether we put our trust in Him through Jesus Christ. God not only forgave Abraham and Sarah but He cleaned up their mess along the way so that His plan would be fulfilled and realised for His glory. Look again at the defining moment in Abraham's life…Genesis chapter 15, verses 5 and 6: God brought Abraham outside and said, "Look up toward the heaven. Count the stars if you are able to count them." Then God said to him, "So shall your descendants be. And Abraham believed the Lord and the Lord reckoned it to him as righteousness. What do I have to do to do the works of God? To believe in the One whom He sent; His Son, Jesus Christ!

You're listening to Burnt Toast! We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay.Happy Christmas if you celebrate! If you don't, happy Thursday where everything is closed! Either way, today we're taking a look back at your five favorite episodes of the year. If you enjoy the snippets you hear here, why not give yourself the gift of Burnt Toast? In addition to getting behind paywalled episodes and essays, Burnt Toasties get to join our awesome chat rooms like Team CPAP, Anti-Diet Ozempic Life and Fat Fashion! Join Burnt Toast for 2026!

CLIMATE ACTION SHOWProduced by Vivien LangfordDecember 22nd 2025 GURRIDYULA GABBA WUNGGU WADDANANGU CULTURAL CUSTODIAN AT RISING TIDE AND COP3O IN BRAZIL Guests:Matthew Jeffrey -  Wadi Wadi Man and First Nations Support at Rising Tide Newcastle November 2025 Gurridyula Gabba Wunggu - Wangan and Jagalingou - Waddanangu Cultural Custodian.His song "Gee'd up" sent to the Gomeroi people fighting off Santos Gashttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c81f5egGzCc Jayden Kitchener Waters -  Gomeroi and Ngiyampaa Public Servant and singer suspended for the sign "No pride in Genocide" on his guitar. We hear one of his songs.https://nit.com.au/27-11-2025/21501/gomeroi-and-ngiyampaa-government-staffer-suspended-responds-to-conduct-breach-allegations-with-letter-in-language  The  Rising Tide  Blockade of the World's biggest coal port at Muloobinba/Newcastle was just the beginning. Next year is going to be very tough for coal, oil and gas. These interviews and songs take us into the spirit of the people who have protected waters, forests land and sea country for millenia. BACKGROUNDThe First International Conference for the Just Transition Away from Fossil Fuels  is announced for April 28-29 in 2026. The Netherlands and Colombia will host it at  Santa Marta coal port  in Colombia.It will be a landmark event focussed just on international cooperation in phasing out coal, oil, and gas and moving beyond UN talks to create concrete plans and pathways for a fair transition.The conference aims to bring together governments, experts, and civil society to build on declarations like the Belem Declaration.  Momentum built up at COP 30 in Belem has led to the urgent need to work out the  legal, economic, and social steps for a fossil-free future. To read more about President Gustavo Petro who has not pertmitted any NEW oil and gas exploration in this oil rich region here is his 2023 lecture at Stanford University.'https://fsi.stanford.edu/news/colombian-president-gustavo-petro-urges-transition-green-energyhttps://fsi.stanford.edu/news/colombian-president-gustavo-petro-urges-transition-green-energy INTERVIEWSWe hear from Matthew Jeffrey about Indigenous leadership by Tiwi Islanders in co operation with Timor Leste, Papua New Guinea and Indonesia in protecting their common sea country against gas drilling. Then Garridyula, explores with us how vital fresh water is. He is cultural Custodian of the Waddanagu  cultural ceremony which protects the sacred Doongmabula Springs. He spoke at the First Nations Yarning space in Newcastle and contributed to the stories First Nations people told in Brazil at the massive conference COP 30 in Belem.Listeners will remember the massive STOP ADANI campaign and how many people have been graciously welcomed to Wangan and Jagalingou country. This is a beautiful interview in which we hear that the exploiters are children who do not understand the water table and how destructive their mining activities are.Adani/Bravus continues to export coal but at a much lower volume that planned and with considerable reputational damage here and abroad.  The Waddanangu Ceremony continues because these are eternal waters and need our protection.https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/fire-still-burning-for-custodians-in-fight-against-mine/mm2lxpgax Jayden Kitchener Waters sang at a Palestine Action Rally in Sydney.National Indigenous Times 27/11/2025  : "Jayden Kitchener-Waters has been suspended with pay after going public with his alleged experience of censorship at the Premier's public servants Awards.On Monday November 17, Mr Kitchener-Waters was due to play his song 'Nhayla', written for his niece and sung in both English and Ngiyampaa language, before Premier's Department staff told him messages painted on his guitar were "too political" and could be seen as "taking sides"."NO PRIDE IN GENOCIDE", "FREE GAZA" and "F*CK THE IDF" was the writing in concern.Mr Kitchener-Waters offered to cover the word 'f*ck' before the issue was raised with the phrase referring to genocide."  

Gee shares how he ended up covering the Seahawks // AGREE TO DISAGREE: Are you cutting in the "I'll get you later" guy for the pool PowerBall win? // WE HEAR YOU! and WORDS TO LIVE BY

Dr. Gee ends Season 11 with his deep and thoughtful reflections on the season and the times we are living in, as a Black man. His mic drop episodes don't hold back but speak from an honest place, making sense of our world.  This episode is a special conversation as Jeremy Holiday reflects on being a part of the show from the beginning as a producer and engineer. He discusses the evolution of the show alongside his own ongoing racial justice journey. Dr. Gee talks to Jeremy about the lessons he has learned from being involved in the show and who were the guests that stuck out to him through the years. Don't miss this insightful look behind the scenes of the podcast in this milestone in the show's history. Jeremy is a digital media producer and documentary filmmaker who has taught and supported at all educational levels. His own creative output as Atwoodland Productions includes a media focussed podcast for two seasons called Extratextual. Jeremy is now working on a new podcast called Just Around the Corner - a podcast about place, where we are, and what's next. alexgee.com Support the Show: patreon.com/blacklikeme Join the Black Like Me Listener Community Facebook Group

In an interview recorded at Thrive Summit in November, we explore how innovative clinicians are leveraging athenaOne and artificial intelligence tools to overcome geographic barriers while maintaining the personal connection that's so vital to effective patient care. Dr. Allen Gee is a neurologist practicing in Wyoming, where he's one of only eight full-time neurologists serving a state of over 500,000 residents across hundreds of miles. With his focus on "neurohealth" — treating the whole person rather than just symptoms — Dr. Gee shares his insights on using athenaOne's tools for patient engagement, how AI is helping him focus on patients rather than screens, and why he believes the future of healthcare lies in the collaboration between human intelligence and artificial intelligence.

Gee how come your mom let's you have two Nikas blah blah blah Treat yourself or a loved one! TokyoTreat & Sakuraco make the perfect gift for any occasion. Use code "JORYJO" for $5 off your first #TokyoTreat box through my link: https://team.tokyotreat.com/watchingonepiece and #Sakuraco box: https://team.sakura.co/watchingonepiece Join our Discord: http://discord.gg/WSv2KW34rk This episode came out early for our Patrons! Thank you for supporting on Patreon! We Are! on Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/wearewatchingop.bsky.social

Dr. Gee and Dr. Charles Taylor discuss the richness of African American history and understanding the wisdom of African heritage. Dr. Taylor considers how people around the country are still figuring out how to celebrate Juneteenth. It must be about history.  One of Dr. Taylor's recent endeavors is a documentary on The South Madison Renaissance, including Dr. Gee's development of The Center for Black Excellence and Culture.  Leaders of Madison's Black Renaissance Documentary Dr. Charles A. Taylor is a nationally recognized author, speaker, and consultant whose work has profoundly shaped the understanding and celebration of Juneteenth across the United States. A lifelong advocate for equity and inclusion, Dr. Taylor played a pivotal role in the movement to make Juneteenth a national holiday. His first book on Juneteenth was distributed to governors across the country, helping to inspire state-level recognition of this historic day and gaining endorsements from key national Juneteenth organizations. Dr. Taylor is the author of over a dozen books, and his latest work on Juneteenth continues his mission to honor the legacy of freedom and resilience, providing readers with a deep historical perspective and a call to action for the future.  Known for his ability to weave compelling narratives with actionable insights, Dr. Taylor's writing bridges the gap between history and modern social justice movements. As a sought-after speaker, Dr. Taylor has delivered keynote addresses on Juneteenth and African American history at our country's leading colleges, universities, and communities nationwide. He was recently the keynote speaker at the National Juneteenth Observance Foundation's Juneteenth Prayer Breakfast at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. His passionate presentations have educated and inspired audiences of all ages, solidifying his reputation as one of the foremost voices on Juneteenth and its enduring significance. Beyond his writing and speaking, Dr. Taylor's contributions to the fight for justice and equity include producing award-winning documentaries like Decade of Discontent and Leaders of Madison's Black Renaissance, hosting innovative diversity initiatives. Dr. Taylor is considered an expert on Black History and holds a PhD from the University of Wisconsin– Madison, where he majored in Curriculum and Instruction. He is a retired professor, dean, and founder of Roar Enterprises Inc., a consulting firm that fosters diversity, project management, and Black history presentations nationwide. His community has given him many awards, including the Urban League's highest award and the City/County Martin Luther King, Jr. Humanitarian Award. Dr. Taylor advocates for understanding Juneteenth's legacy and building a more inclusive future through his books, films, speeches, and community work. Kwanzaa: How To Celebrate It In Your Home JUNETEENTH: A Celebration of Freedom  

Send us a textIn this episode, we sit down with marketing strategist Gee Ranasinha to explore what the future of marketing really looks like — and why many businesses are getting it wrong.Despite the rise of AI and automation tools, marketing's core hasn't changed: it's still about understanding human behavior. Gee breaks down the power of behavioral science, emotional triggers, and brand distinctiveness to explain how businesses can create marketing that sticks.If you've ever felt overwhelmed by marketing technology or struggled to stand out in a crowded market, this conversation will challenge your assumptions and give you a fresh perspective.Why is Psychology the Future Of MarketingBehavioral Science and Buyer PsychologyWhat Went Wrong with Modern MarketingWhy Emotion Is the Foundation of Memorable MarketingThe Real Drivers of B2B Decision-MakingBrand Positioning that Actually WorksWhat Most Businesses Get Wrong About AI and ToolsWhy Standing Out Matters More Than EverActionable Takeaways:Talk to your customers every week — their language and feedback are your marketing gold.Don't start with websites, tools, or ads. Start with positioning.Build your marketing strategy around emotional connection and perceived value.Differentiate intentionally. Safe branding leads to forgettable outcomes.Consider marketing a core business function — not just a set of promotional tactics.Welcome to the Savvy Scribe Podcast, I'm so glad you're here! Before we start the show, if you're interested, we have a free Facebook group called "Savvy Nurse Writer Community"I appreciate you following me and listening today. I would LOVE for you to subscribe: ITUNESAnd if you love it, can I ask for a

What a CreepSeason 31, episode 3Host Sonia Mansfield and Erin Lim from Bitch Talk Podcast talk about Dick Cheney.The former VP rebranded “torture” as “enhanced interrogation” and argued that if the president does something, then it's legal. Gee, that's sounds familiar. He pushed our country into a war that killed a lot of civilians and U.S. servicemembers. Oh, and he personally profited from it. Dick got a redemption arc from the media and society after he announced he would vote for Kamala Harris rather than Predator Trump in the 2024 election. Well, too little, too late. What a creep.Sources for this episodeAP NewsBritannicaCNNThe GuardianNew York TimesWikipediaNPRPBS NewsHourPoliticoTrigger warnings: Dick jokesBe sure to follow us on social media. But don't follow us too closely … don't be a creep about it! Subscribe to us on Apple PodcastsFacebook: Join the private groupBlueSky Instagram @WhatACreepPodcastVisit our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/whatacreepEmail: WhatACreepPod@gmail.com Our website is www.whatacreeppodcast.com 

Some people work hard to lose their accent in order to fit in when they move somewhere else. But others may be homesick for the sounds they grew up with and want to try to reclaim them. How can you regain your old accent? Also, a compelling book about scientific taxonomy shows how humans use language to try to divide up and impose order on the word. And Uff-dah! is an expressive word that means "Gee whiz!" or "Oy vey!" It's also handy when lifting heavy objects. Plus, pigloos, pine shatters vs. pine needles, channel fever, a quiz about common bonds, idioms involving stinginess, nicknames, possible baths, verbing nouns, East Jesus and South Burlap, and affirmative semantics with negative morphosyntax. Hear hundreds of free episodes and learn more on the A Way with Words website: https://waywordradio.org. Be a part of the show: call or text 1 (877) 929-9673 toll-free in the United States and Canada; elsewhere in the world, call or text +1 619 800 4443. Send voice notes or messages via WhatsApp 16198004443. Email words@waywordradio.org. Copyright Wayword, Inc., a 501(c)(3) corporation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices