Podcasts about finreglab

Alex Johnson, creator of the Fintech Takes newsletter, and I are happy to bring you the latest episode of our monthly podcast, Fintech Recap. This month we had the chance to talk about:* Our time in Washington, DC, to attend the American Fintech Council Policy Summit, FinRegLab's AI Symposium, and a variety of other meetings* What's been happening on “BaaS Island,” with the Synapse bankruptcy moving into its next phase as depositors are left wondering when — or if — they'll ever be made whole* The CFPB's rule defining larger participant in the digital wallet space* …and, as always, what Alex and Jason just can't let go of Get full access to Fintech Business Weekly at fintechbusinessweekly.substack.com/subscribe

Joining Craig and Josh this month is Melissa Koide, Founder and CEO of FinRegLab — a nonprofit organization that tests and researches technology to help inform public policy and advance financial inclusion. Melissa touches on some of FinRegLab's key initiatives, including the use of cashflow data to predict credit risk and assess populations with limited or no credit history; new research the organization is doing on machine learning algorithms being used in financial services; and a partnership with Kenya's government, banks and bureaus to determine the optimal data insights needed for credit risk assessing women-owned small businesses. The group also discusses regulatory uncertainties keeping the financial industry from wider adoption of new types of data, and muses over the laws and regulations that could one day surround artificial intelligence and platforms like ChatGPT. Finally, Josh tests Melissa's Kentucky knowledge with some light trivia about her hometown. The information discussed in this podcast constitutes the opinion of TransUnion, and TransUnion shall have no liablity for any actions taken based upon the content of this podcast.

This recording is from Fintech Nexus USA (formerly known as LendIt Fintech USA) held at the Javits Center in New York City on May 25-26, 2022. It is from the track: Consumer Lending: BNPL, Cards and Personal Loans - Sponsored by FICO and is titled: Deep Dive into Bank Data and Cash Flow Underwriting. Speaking at this session are Shawn Princell, RIBBIT, Sarah Davies, Nova Credit, Jason Gross, Petal, Chris McKay, OppFi with Moderator: Melissa Koide, FinRegLab.

What's the difference between traditional underwriting and cashflow underwriting? Get an inside look with expert Kelly Cochran, Deputy Director at FinRegLab. Today we discuss what cashflow underwriting is and the benefits and risks of using this data in credit scoring.Follow us on social media!youtube.com/vantagescorefb.com/vantagescoretwitter.com/vantagescorevantagescore.com/linkedininstagram.com/vantagescore

Melissa Koide is the CEO of FinRegLab, a nonprofit research center that tests new technologies and data and facilitates dialogue to inform public policy and drive the financial sector toward a responsible and inclusive financial marketplace.FinRegLab is focusing on big questions surrounding data and Artificial Intelligence: How should it be regulated? How can it help consumers? What risks does it pose? Melissa talks with David about what tomorrow's banker needs to know about AI and emerging tech in the financial sector.

Melissa Koide is the CEO of FinRegLab, a nonprofit financial innovation and research center that examines how technology and data can help achieve public policy aspirations, address regulatory requirements, and lead to a more efficient and inclusive financial marketplace. FinRegLab provides an independent platform for financial stakeholders and policymakers to dialogue and gain an evidence-based understanding of new financial technologies.

The Power Is Now Media is conducting a series of interviews about the importance of Homeownership and Financial Literacy, during the month of June.Our goal is to inspire and educate everyone about the wealth-building impact that homeownership can have on your life. Especially for low to moderate-income families, minorities, and African Americans who have the lowest homeownership rate of all minorities.Today Eric Frazier speaks with Lisa Rice, President, and CEO, National Fair Housing Alliance (NFHA)Lisa Rice is the President and CEO of the National Fair Housing Alliance (NFHA), the nation's only national civil rights agency solely dedicated to eliminating all forms of housing discrimination. NFHA is also the trade association for over 200 member organizations across the country that work to eliminate barriers in the housing markets and expand equal housing and lending opportunities. NFHA provides a range of programs to affirmatively further fair housing including community development, neighborhood stabilization, training, education, outreach, advocacy, consulting and enforcement initiatives.Ms. Rice is a member of the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights Board of Directors, Center for Responsible Lending Board of Directors, JPMorgan Chase Consumer Advisory Council, Mortgage Bankers Association's Consumer Advisory Council, Freddie Mac Affordable Housing Advisory Council, Quicken Loans Advisory Forum, Bipartisan Policy Center's Housing Advisory Council, FinRegLab's Machine Learning Advisory Board, and Berkeley's The Terner Center Advisory Council.

Nina Mohanty is a "visionary". Specifically speaking, she is one at the upcoming "Women's Economic Empowerment TechSprint & Conference", which she now showcases in our podcast, providing awareness to our audience on this great initiative brought by the Alliance for Innovative Regulation (AIR) in partnership with the UK's Financial Conduct Authority (FCA). We invited Francesca Hopwood Road and Jo-Ann Barefoot to tells us the goals, operations, and available resources created by this initiative to our audience. More on the initiative here: https://regulationinnovation.org/womens_empowerment_sprint/ More on our guests:Jo-Ann BarefootJo-Ann is the CEO & Founder of AIR - the Alliance for Innovative Regulation and host of the global podcast show Barefoot Innovation. A noted advocate of “regulation innovation,” Jo Ann is Senior Fellow Emerita at the Harvard Kennedy School Center for Business & Government. She has been Deputy Comptroller of the Currency, partner at KPMG, Co-Chairman of Treliant Risk Advisors, and staff member at the U.S. Senate Banking Committee. She's an angel investor, serves on the board of Oportun, serves on the fintech advisory committee for FINRA, is a member of the Milken Institute U.S. FinTech Advisory Committee, and is a member of the California Blockchain Working Group Advisory Board. Jo-Ann chairs the board of directors of FinRegLab, previously chaired the board of the Financial Health Network, and previously served on the CFPB's Consumer Advisory Board. She was a co-founder of Hummingbird Regtech.Linkedln: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jbarefoot/ Francesca Hopwood RoadFrancesca leads the FCA's RegTech and Advanced Analytics function responsible fordeveloping and embedding data science, machine learning, and artificial intelligence tools and capability across the organization. She also runs the FCA's RegTech activities, including the FCA's TechSprint events, the first of their kind convened by a financial regulator. Since joining the regulator in 2010 she has led a number of strategic transformation programmes. Prior to joining she worked in the third sector and private sector using data and intelligence to identify and mitigate harm for consumers.Linkedln: https://www.linkedin.com/in/francesca-hopwood-road-ab040b15/

In this episode, Miguel Armaza sits down with Jo Ann Barefoot, CEO & Founder of the Alliance for Innovative Regulation and host of the podcast Barefoot Innovation. Jo Ann is a famous advocate of “regulation innovation,” and is one of the most active and visible fintech leaders working to improve and modernize financial regulation around the world. She is also a Senior Fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School Center for Business & Government and in the past was Deputy Comptroller of the Currency of the United States and a staff member at the U.S. Senate Banking Committee. Jo Ann Barefoot Jo Ann Barefoot is CEO & Founder of AIR - the Alliance for Innovative Regulation and host of the global podcast show Barefoot Innovation. A noted advocate of “regulation innovation,” Jo Ann is Senior Fellow Emerita at the Harvard Kennedy School Center for Business & Government. She has been Deputy Comptroller of the Currency, partner at KPMG, Co-Chairman of Treliant Risk Advisors, and staff member at the U.S. Senate Banking Committee. She’s an angel investor, serves on the board of Oportun, serves on the fintech advisory committee for FINRA, is a member of the Milken Institute U.S. FinTech Advisory Committee, and is a member of the California Blockchain Working Group Advisory Board. Jo Ann chairs the board of directors of FinRegLab, previously chaired the board of the Financial Health Network, and previously served on the CFPB’s Consumer Advisory Board. She was a Cofounder of Hummingbird Regtech. About Alliance for Innovative Regulation AIR is a nonprofit dedicated to modernizing the financial regulatory system. We believe that the regulatory framework needs to migrate from a largely manual to a Digitally-Native Design. This will ensure financial stability, protect consumers from harm, promote financial inclusion, curtail financial crime, and enable continuous innovation. AIR works at the intersection of technology, innovation, and regulation to help regulators better understand emerging technologies that can help improve financial health. Examples like cash-flow underwriting can expand safe and affordable credit to people with no credit history, increasing credit access and a creating a more fair financial system. AIR’s Regtech Manifesto Financial regulation needs to convert from analog to digital design. This seminal thought piece calls for gradual, but urgent, conversion of the financial regulatory system to a “digitally-native” framework. The Manifesto is a Request for Comments (RFC). It calls for discussion about a system that will be rebuilt over time to leverage the power of digitization and make regulatory outcomes better, faster, and cheaper, all at once. Join the conversation.

We are joined by Kelly Cochran, Deputy Director of FinRegLab, a non-profit focused on the use of data and technology in financial services. We examine credit reporting, credit scoring, and underwriting issues arising from COVID-19 and CARES Act requirements, including use of comment codes by furnishers, treatment of forbearance-related information by creditors, and that are likely to arise in the transition from short-term forbearances to long-term arrangements.

In this episode of Breaking Banks, host JP Nicols is joined by Dara Tarkowski Attorney and Managing Director of Actuate Law; as well as, the host of the Tech on Reg podcast on Provoke.fm Media. They discuss the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau’s launch of the pilot advisory opinion (AO) program and challenge banks to take a more proactive stance in regulatory compliance as opposed to the reactive approach of yesterday. Then stay tuned as Brett King hosts Melissa Koide, CEO of the FinRegLab to talk about new research on AI in financial services. They explore how the use of advanced analytical processes can help drive our financial system toward an inclusive recovery.

While the entire economy has been impacted by COVID-19, small business has taken a particularly big hit. As small businesses try to access funding to stay afloat, we need to reexamine what we are measuring and what new data that may give us a better financial picture. This week we spoke to Greg Ott, CEO of Nav, Melissa Koide, CEO and Kelly Cochran, Deputy Director, at FinRegLab about their experiences and research that point to better data around SMBsGuests: Greg Ott, CEO, Nav Melissa Koide, CEO, FinRegLab Kelly Cochran, Deputy Director, FinRegLabHosts: Sanjib Kalita, Editor in Chief, Money20/20 Rachel Morrissey, Content Producer, Money20/20 Producers: Roland Bodenham, Senior Video Editor, Ascential Rachel Morrissey, Content Producer, Money20/20

BE SURE TO SEE THE SHOWNOTES AND LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE HERE. Eve Picker: [00:00:09] Hi there. Thanks so much for joining me today for the latest episode of Impact Real Estate Investing.   Eve: [00:00:15] My guest today is Melissa Koide, the founder of FinRegLab, a pretty new research organization. Melissa describes herself as a policy entrepreneur. While working in government she saw the critical need for an independent research organization, an honest broker of sorts, to test financial methodologies and new technological tools. Through FinRegLab, Melissa hopes to inform policymakers and financial institutions. Their ultimate goal is to advance financial inclusion.   Eve: [00:00:58] Be sure to go to evepicker.com to find out more about Melissa on the show notes page for this episode. And be sure to sign up for my newsletter so you can access information about impact real estate investing and get the latest news about the exciting projects on my crowdfunding platform, Small Change.   Eve: [00:01:21] Hello, Melissa and thank you so much for joining me.   Melissa Koide: [00:01:24] Good morning. Thanks, Eve, for reaching out to me. I'm looking forward to our conversation.   Eve: [00:01:28] Yeah, me too. So you launched a company called FinRegLab with the goal of helping to create a more inclusive and safe financial marketplace and I'm wondering how Fintech - because I think that's what FinRegLab does, financial technology - helps to meet the unique needs of the unbanked and the underbanked.   Melissa: [00:01:52] Absolutely. I'd love to tell you a little bit about why I stood up FinRegLab, if you'd like to hear a little bit of the origination story.   Melissa: [00:02:02] I was in the U.S. Treasury Department, in the Obama administration, and my office was the Office of Consumer Policy. And I jokingly say, being the head of the Office of Consumer Policy meant that I got to engage in virtually any and all policies that touched people, which meant that we had an important role to play across lots of important policy areas, which was a priority for Treasury and the administration at that time, which was really around financial inclusion and thinking about how public policy and the financial sector could be ensuring support of access, or financial inclusion, for households and families and small businesses who lack access to safe and affordable financial products and services. So that might show up in our financial inclusion agenda, it would very much show up in the work that we were doing looking at some of the consumer protection policies that were being developed. This was after the creation of the CFPD, but there were still a lot of developing policies that the administration was very thoughtful about in the consumer protection area, whether it was housing and mortgages, auto financing all the way to the other end of the spectrum that Treasury focused on, which was making sure that our financial system was safe from bad actors, whether it would be bad actors trying to use a financial system for fraudulent purposes all the way to really bad actors who, you know, would potentially be trying to fund things like financing for terrorists through the financial system. All of those different policy areas were under the purview, or are under the purview of the Treasury Department and all of them, in fact, have real implications for people because people are clearly who make up and who use our financial system.   Eve: [00:04:13] Probably, you know, Small Change and what I built it on comes right out of those policies.   Melissa: [00:04:20] Say more.   Eve: [00:04:21] Oh, the Jobs Act, I mean, the Jobs Act of 2012 and the Regulation Crowdfunding which allows access to anyone over the age of 18 to invest, is pretty much part of opening up that whole financial system to everyone.   Melissa: [00:04:36] That's exactly. Yep, that's absolutely right. And you're putting your finger on another important aspect of what the work we were doing at Treasury and then what was the impetus for creating FinRegLab. So this was back in 2012, 2011, when this notion of something called Fintech was really just coming online and it was post the Dodd-Frank Act but it was definitely something that was thought about in the Jobs Act. And that was: wait a minute, how can new technologies and new data uses potentially enable the creation of access to financial products and services that can be delivered to individuals who may be harder to serve, may be more non-traditional? I can talk about examples around this, but, whereas tech and data potentially able to level the access to the financial sector especially for individuals who may, for a variety of reasons, not be able to get into the more mainstream financial system. And whereas tech and data enabling the innovative and creative new providers of financial products and services who may not be banks, they may not be depositories. We saw the rise of new marketplace lenders who are generally non-bank financial institutions, who in the beginning, and it sounds like you know this well Eve, really doing a level of matchmaking with data between those who were interested in providing resources and funds for borrowers and then the borrowers on the other side who were in need of funds for a variety of purpose. And it was these intermediaries that really, sort of, were at the forefront of this onslaught of new types of non-bank actors. What we now, shorthand is Fintech firms, who are bringing in access to things like credit where that kind of access hadn't been available especially, I think it's an important distinction, credit that is affordable and non-predatory. And it doesn't mean that there aren't predatory marketplace lenders, there are some of those out there, but the use of the technology and the data, I think, helped to really create a ecosystem of providers of credit that are doing it at a much more affordable price for consumers. And small businesses, actually.   Eve: [00:07:17] Yes. That's been your background and then, how does your organization FinRegLab play a role in all of this? You launched 2017, right?   Melissa: [00:07:28] Yeah, and so the punch line in terms of, you know, what I was doing at Treasury and what's FinRegLab is, what we didn't have while I was sitting at Treasury for four and a half years, was any independent organization that didn't, frankly, have a particular advocacy agenda. While sitting at Treasury we would hear from the banks, we would hear from consumer advocates, we would hear from merchants, we would hear from Fintech. And everybody had a vested interest in how policy evolves in light of any particular data or technology use. And that's completely reasonable and understandable. But as policymakers, what we needed, and what policymakers still require, is an independent, non-advocacy, empirically-driven resource or answers that are empirical and non-advocacy driven. That really help to evaluate what are the implications? What are the implications for people from a new type of data use? What are the implications for the financial sector when a new data use might be brought online? And what does that then mean for public policy? What does it mean for the existing rules and laws that we already have in place that may need to evolve and may need to change in light of what a particular new data application may mean for consumers, small businesses and the financial market? And so, while sitting at Treasury, we didn't have any independent organization to turn to to just get that empirical evaluation.   Melissa: [00:09:09] And so after leaving Treasury at the end of the Obama administration, I spent some time for about six or seven months talking to my policy colleagues who I had worked with, especially the regulators, about this idea of standing up. Would it be valuable to them and what would they like to see evaluated? But to stand up a non-profit research organization that could go about, in a fairly sophisticated way, creating actual empirical evaluations of particular data or technology applications and then, importantly, providing a space for the dialogue for all of the different stakeholders who both need to learn from what the empirical research offers, but then they have a dialogue about what does that data use, now that we understand from an empirical standpoint, what does that mean in terms of the evolution of our policies and our laws? And so that's, after six months talking with the regulators in particular and identifying a host of particular data applications or technology uses that would be of value for us to study, I then began to explore some of the different philanthropic funders who would be interested in supporting this kind of organization. And we found the Omidyar Network was particularly interested in being supporting for a non-profit to do this kind of research.   Melissa: [00:10:45] I then stood up FinRegLab to go about, frankly year one - and it sounds like, Eve, you've run a nonprofit too - year one, what sort of proof of concept is the idea that we're putting forth, you know, will it succeed? Can we deliver what we're promising to deliver? And so year one, year one and a half was really first test case. Can we get industry to share the type of data that we need in order to do a genuinely independent empirical assessment? Will we be able to get the regulators to join in the dialogue discussions and all of those industry stakeholders, consumer advocates, the big banks, the Fintechs? And so it was a really exciting year for both building this new organization and undertaking that research. And I'm pleased to say it was a really productive project.   Eve: [00:11:38] I want to maybe know in a little more detail how these projects work. What happens in your lab?   Melissa: [00:11:42] Sure. I'll tell you some of the projects that we've done and some of the things that we have underway that I think are pretty important for the moment that we're in today. The way that we work is, again, we engage the regulators, consumer advocates and the broader financial market to identify what are emerging data or emerging data uses or emerging technologies that those may have real scale effects for the financial sector? But importantly, and this is FinRegLab, our true north, but that also may have real benefits and power for advancing financial inclusion. We are talking to the financial sector, the Fintechs, the banker, the investors, the regulators constantly to really keep tabs on what are trends in the market in terms of data that are being used or that are being thought about being used, or that present as having real scale effects potential? And then we go about essentially constructing a research project that would enable us to be able to then get the level of data or the access to the technology that we need in order to then evaluate it. And so I'll use our cash flow research as a sort of tangible way to explain it. So there is a lot of conviction, for very good reason, that we need more affordable and safe credit access. There's also a fair bit of, I think our research bears this out, concern that our existing credit evaluation process may not sufficiently evaluate the credit risk of underserved consumers and small businesses. And so this may be, in this country alone we have between 40 and 60 million Americans who are considered, that they have insufficient credit history or they have no credit history at all. And therefore, because we rely on credit history, the current approach for underwriting isn't able to successfully evaluate their credit risk.   Eve: [00:14:00] I actually went through this years ago because when I moved from Australia a long time ago, we just didn't use credit cards there in the way that they were used here. We didn't have any credit history.   Melissa: [00:14:11] Exactly.   Eve: [00:14:12] And the mortgage lenders were completely baffled. They didn't know what to do with us. It was a bizarre experience.   Eve Picker: [00:14:17] How did you find your way through that?   Eve: [00:14:20] I think, my husband had a job with the university and they were supportive in the background. They provided some hand money. You know, this was a long time ago. So somehow we convinced the lenders that we were a reasonable risk. And honestly, part of that is we're white. I think that when you're a minority in this country, perhaps that convincing isn't as easy, right?   Melissa: [00:14:49] Yep, yep. Yep. There is definitely, you know, we see a lot of access issues, especially among low to moderate income communities and individuals who also happen to be minority. So, it is absolutely a need in this country to make sure that financial access is extending to minority communities and minority communities, especially who are low and moderate income. So, absolutely.   Eve: [00:15:18] And that redlining goes away, because it still exists. It exists strongly. And it's astounding to me that it still does. But there it is.   Melissa: [00:15:28] Well, just to digress on that point for a minute, back in the 70s, we had significant redlining in Chicago, across the country. But there was research that, empirical work, that clearly identified the type of redlining that had been happening in this country. And we ended up with a law put in place, the Community Reinvestment Act, which, in essence, it sounds like you're familiar with it, says, you know, if you are going to be taking deposits from these communities you need to be serving these communities. With credit, in particular credit access. And I think it's a really interesting question to bring it back to technology and data today. There is a general belief that that law is too dated in light of how financial products and services are delivered now, where people are going to get and sign up for bank accounts to credit access. And there's also important questions around, that law specifically covers are depositary, our banks. Should that law be updated so that some of these new types of financial service providers are also included, right? I mean, there are questions around should non-banks who are providing financial products and services have some obligation around that. There's a lot of complexity and things that have to be considered but I think the general notion of where people are getting their financial needs met, what then are the obligations in terms of the financial system and making sure that people are fairly served and accessing credit and other, ultimately what are wealth building opportunities, right? Credit and your...   Eve: [00:17:16] Yeah. But the problem is, the poorest people who need that credit, it costs them the most. So the opportunity to build wealth becomes even harder. Whereas the more you have in this country, the less it costs you to make more money and to get better credit. And that's that's really scary.   Melissa: [00:17:40] Yeah. Yeah. We thought about this a lot while sitting at Treasury and we thought about it, I think it's important also to be thinking about it, quite holistically. For one, in the financial sector, in the credit decisions, as I said, we've got 40 to 60 million people who are quite possibly credit-worthy, but we just can't tell from the existing way that we evaluate them. And that's what that cash flow research looked at. And we actually did find that other types of data, in particular bank account transaction information, is able to distinctfully evaluate credit risk, distinct from using a FICO Score or a VantageScore. So just put a pin in that, right? That there are other ways to evaluate people who really are credit-worthy, who haven't been able to get the credit under traditional means. But this bigger, real problem that is in front of us is, it's not just the credit system that has to be astute in tackling access issues, we also have much bigger, more foundational needs that would help to lead down the path, if we could fix these issues, for equality. And that means thinking about our higher education, and what does it take to get a good education? And can we deliver a good education with how...strapping people down with debt that may encumber their ability to then be able to acquire other things like a home, as a for instance. Income. Huge issue, right?   Eve: [00:19:21] Right.   Melissa: [00:19:21] Are people getting their basic needs met, are they able to do so with the income they make? And that list would go on. I mean, there is that tax system to think about. We spend a lot of time thinking about how we could be potentially driving savings in a way that is very efficient, very streamlined at virtually no cost. And when I was sitting at Treasury we built a product called the myRA, which was the starter retirement account. This was a Roth-structured IRA product that we set up for the millions of households who aren't able to save in a traditional employer-sponsored retirement plan. So I think that there are other really important levers like retirement, like higher education financing, like really focusing on income that are so critical to giving everybody the opportunity to have some financial security and financial stability, which, let's face it, all our families need.   Eve: [00:20:27] Small business lending and I consider, you know, small real estate development to be small, small business as well, is very difficult and really geared towards a very distinctive population. White men. You know, all these businesses that are built on credit cards, which is very expensive, you know, by women and minorities or immigrants. I know we've tried to shift that, but that is a really big hairy goal. Like, I'll give you an example. My parents were immigrants to Australia, and when they arrived, they were refugees from the war. They had absolutely nothing. You know, I grew up with these people who worked really hard to build a life and to make sure their kids had a good education. In a sense, immigrants like that are self-selected because they are driven enough to pick themselves up and go to another country and make something happen to better their lives. So I'm puzzled why we treat them so badly, you know, and that's around lending for small businesses. Is that a credit issue? Is that, you know, is... I don't know.   Melissa: [00:21:41] Yeah. I think that there are some presumed limitations on being able to serve immigrants and undocumented individuals that aren't there but, you know, maybe sort of inhibitors that people decide to put in place themselves.   Eve: [00:22:03] Well definitely with undocumented, but there are plenty of immigrants who are documented, right?   Melissa: [00:22:10] Yep.   Eve: [00:22:11] Anyway, now we're going down a very different path here. It's the culture around lending and credit and everything that..   Melissa: [00:22:19] It sounds like you've actually, sort of, studied this particular area in terms of some of the decisioning and the culture around lending for small businesses.   Eve: [00:22:27] Well around buildings. But that's a slightly different culture, you know, that is around...I don't know enough about banking to really be able to understand this completely, but over the last 15 or 20 years, first of all, the number of banks has been greatly reduced in this country - I think it was 15,000 and now it's under 5,000.   Melissa: [00:22:49] No, we'r a little under seven.   Eve: [00:22:51] In a sense, community banking has been a little squashed, right? And along with that, what I noticed in real estate, and I'm sure it's true in business, is that if you're doing a project that is slightly different in an underserved neighborhood, let's say it's the first 10 affordable housing units, or retail on a street that hasn't had any new investment in 10 years. banks just really shy away from that. They want to appraise it. They want to see that it's happened before, you know, at least three times. And they want to be really comfortable with a product that they completely understand. And in my mind, that squashes innovation and an improvement in our country, because if you keep supporting the same, how do you grow better?   Melissa: [00:23:43] Yeah, we haven't studied the real estate market, but we did do a deep dive study looking at small business lending by marketplace lenders. And we did do some level of, sort of, where are the banks relative to the marketplace lenders? I think one of the interesting takeaways that has some resonance in light of the concerns you're raising are, as we are moving to, and I think this environment with Covid emphasizes this even further, as we're moving to a much more online and data driven decisioning process and even a more autonomous evaluation process, including for small business lending, I think generally it's perceived that's going to help in terms of any type of bias or explicit sort of discriminatory perspectives or behaviors that lenders would apply, right? Because it's all about what's the data tell you? On the other hand, it also puts a lot of pressure on, do the data tell you enough? And I think one of the things that I hear you're asking is, is there enough openness and risk-taking by lenders and banks in the financial sector generally, to allow for and appreciate the diversity that may be coming through, depending upon what the particular small business may be selling, who that small business is, what the geography is that the lender is sort of evaluating. I think it's a, I think you're absolutely putting your finger on an interesting question is, you know, that sort of risk taking, are we clamping it down further? We may be mitigating some of the explicit discriminatory bias that we have seen historically, because now it's really, you know, how long is that business been a business or what is that, sort of, expected small business planning to do? Now we have the ability for lenders to think about a small business idea of, look across the country to compare what's that business endeavor look like in another marketplace? And what are the factors then that you would want to consider when making a decision to make a loan? On the other hand, is it further driving away the willingness to take risks? And clearly lending and small business is a lot about risk taking, right? I mean,   Eve: [00:26:26] Absolutely.   Melissa: [00:26:26] A lot of small businesses, you don't make it. And no doubt we have, you know, too many small businesses right now struggling.   Eve: [00:26:34] Oh, it's awful.   Melissa: [00:26:35] But yeah.   Eve: [00:26:36] And this is the rise of equity crowdfunding, which is really barely an industry at this time. It's very nascent but, you know, the fact that people will take a risk in other people rather than a financial institution between them is, is a really direct and interesting idea because, you know, people in my neighborhood would band together and buy a house to stop it falling into the hands of a slum-lord.   Melissa: [00:27:03] In Australia?   Eve: [00:27:04] No, no in Pittsburgh, in Pittsburgh.   Melissa: [00:27:06] In Pittsburgh? That's great.   Eve: [00:27:09] That's a very direct relationship with a place you're in. Maybe it's a direct relationship with a developer. Maybe it's a direct relationship with a business, you know?   Melissa: [00:27:19] Well, and what's interesting about what you just said there is it's all human relationships too, right? It's your relationship with your neighbor, your sort of shared interest and commitment to taking a risk together all the way to having a relationship with somebody who's a developer in the neighborhood who's going to join you in, yeah, taking some level of risk. Yeah, it's a good question, Eve, I think, you know, how do we make sure that we don't both lose the sort of human aspect of this, the willingness to take risks because there is such importance and diversity of who the small business owners are, what they provide. Who gets to take advantage of whatever they happen to be building or selling?   Eve: [00:28:05] So what's your big hope for, big hairy goal for FinReglab? How do you think, or how might you like to change the world?   Melissa: [00:28:14] Goodness. We know to be, we are a small and mighty team,   Eve: [00:28:23] Small and mighty, I like that.   Melissa: [00:28:25] But we are taking on, I think, some of the big and important questions when it comes to technology and data being used to make decisions in consumers financial lives. Our ambition is to sort of be looking around the bend and really, sort of, keep an eye on what are the technology or data applications that will have real scale impact for bringing more people into the financial system? And also being really careful in recognizing there are real risks, too, potentially. We want to grow up and we want to be effective at informing across the entire financial marketplace. I think we have been quite good so far. We're still pretty little, pretty young. But I think we've been good at, sort of, being able to spot what are trends where there is real opportunity, but also the need to assess the risk. Cashflow data was one particular type of data. And I think we did a good job of that evaluation. We're now actually turning to look at some of the technologies and in particular some of the algorithms, the more sophisticated machine learning algorithms that are being considered for credit underwriting, right? This gets to this whole question of, to what extent is the decision engine for who gets credit and who doesn't q black box??And so we're really honing in on this question of, well, is that black box explainable?   Melissa: [00:30:01] And so we've embarked on a research project. We're partnering with a team from Stanford to evaluate some of the explainer technologies that may help to determine how was a credit decision made, if it was a machine learning algorithm that was applied? Is the information able to be explained to a consumer, right? How is the information, is it able to be explained to a regulator? And then, really importantly, how is what's coming out of that machine learning algorithm understandable for making sure that we are not perpetuating bias? And differences between protected classes and non-protected classes. And so, again, there is, the academic literature suggests there's real promise in using what I call fancy math. We also really need to make sure that we are able to assess it and understand what comes out of those black boxes so that our policy objectives, our societal objectives are able to be met. So one day at a time for us, but..   Eve: [00:31:18] It sounds like you're shooting for the stars and  I can't wait to see what comes out of your...   Melissa: [00:31:24] Oh, thank you.   Eve: [00:31:25] ...Small and Mighty Team next. And thank you, thank you very much for talking with me.   Melissa: [00:31:31] Absolutely. Thank you so much for reaching out to me. I'm glad we've done this.   Eve: [00:31:54] That was Melissa Koide. FinReglab is tackling a fundamental issue, the need to create a more inclusive and safe financial marketplace for everyone. Melissa believes that technology can solve some of the problems of the inequitable marketplace we operate in now. And she wants FinRegLab to be looking around the bend to identify technology that can advance financial inclusion. While her team is still small, they are tackling a mighty big problem. Small and mighty is how she describes them.   Eve: [00:32:36] You can find out more about impact real estate investing and access the show notes for today's episode at my website, evepicker.com. While you're there, sign up for my newsletter to find out more about how to make money in real estate while building better cities.   Eve: [00:32:53] Thank you so much for spending your time with me today. And thank you, Melissa, for sharing your thoughts. We'll talk again soon but for now, this is Eve Picker signing off to go make some change.

Melissa Koide, co-founder and CEO of FinRegLab, analyzed loan data from six lenders that use cash-flow data in their underwriting. She shares what she found.

Connect with Fintech One-on-One: Tweet me @PeterRenton Connect with me on LinkedIn Find previous Fintech One-on-One episodes

One of the things that has been lacking in the fintech space is an independent research organization that conducts deep dives into topics that would be of interest to regulators and lawmakers. We now have one such company and they have just completed their first research report. Our next guest on the Lend Academy Podcast […] The post Podcast 208: Melissa Koide of FinRegLab appeared first on Lend Academy.

Regtech: How it Can Impact the Bottom Line and Help Fintechs? Joe Robinson, Hummingbird Steve Heckard, ProBank Austin Douglas Merrill, ZestFinance Karl Falk, BotDoc Jim Hilton, Promontory Moderator: Melissa Koide, FinRegLab

Go with the flow? What cash flow data has to say about thin file borrowers Melissa Koide, FinRegLab

Today’s show brings us two fascinating guests.  Alex Lintner is President of Consumer Information Services for Experian, and Sasha Orloff -- who is a previous guest on Barefoot Innovation -- is founder and CEO of LendUp. They recently joined forces to explore using new kinds of data to widen financial inclusion. We all sat down to discuss it at the LendIt conference this spring in San Francisco. Credit scores are a great tool for evaluating the creditworthiness of many consumers, but as Alex explains, not for all of them. He and Sasha think -- as do I -- that we need a fuller view into what Alex calls the consumer’s financial “reputation.” Experian estimates that 100 million people in America need this kind of broadened evaluation. We know that many consumers with low or no credit scores are actually creditworthy, and in fact could prove it if we had systems that could look closely at their financial behaviors and situations beyond reported credit history. Traditionally, though, we didn’t have efficient ways to get that information because, in the analog age, when the current systems were designed, data was scarce and costly. Today, in contrast, we have massive volumes of digital information we can access and analyze, instantly and efficiently. This creates the ability to do what used to be impossible -- make financial services more inclusive, without sacrificing lending soundness. Toward that goal, LendUp and Experian undertook a joint research project to look at the benefits of capturing data on customers’ performance on single-payment loans. The study produced really striking results -- the overwhelming majority of consumers in the study came out with positive impacts on their credit scores. And as Alex explains, single-payment loans are just one kind of nontraditional data. In today’s digitized world, there are many other factors that we can begin to capture methodically and build into routine credit scores. Experian is now routinely doing this, offering a new score called Clear Early Risk. In our conversation, Alex and Sasha share insights drawn from their own lives and talk about the many situations in which people have trouble accessing credit when they need it. Some of these consumers are young people or new immigrants with thin or no credit file. Some are facing life changes like a family death or divorce. Some are contending with emergencies like loss of a job or medical bills. Our discussion also tied these kinds of individual challenges into big shifts underway overall in lifestyle and in technology -- the advent of mobile financial services, the rise of the gig economy, and expanding use of artificial intelligence.  In addition, we touched on the future of the Community Reinvestment Act, which is due for much-needed, tech-driven modernization. Using alternative credit risk data has complex implications for fair lending regulation, especially in the US and especially regarding “disparate impact.”  US policy bars use of credit practices that have a disproportionate adverse effect on “protected classes” like women and minorities, unless the lender can demonstrate a business need and show that less-discriminatory alternatives are not available. The criteria for proving this are not clear today, and I’m among the many people who think that clarifying them is essential to expanding financial inclusion by fostering use of new data. Despite having the best of intentions, policymakers have inadvertently made hard-to-score consumers the riskiest market to serve, due to the regulatory risk arising from uncertainty. That chills efforts to address these customers’ needs by many mainstream and high-quality lenders. The CFPB is exploring this issue through its evaluation of alternative data and issuance of a “no action letter” for Upstart. A similar effort is underway, also, at the new nonprofit FinRegLab, which is run by Melissa Koide and funded by the Omidyar Network. I chair FinRegLab’s board, and we’re conducting empirical testing of alternative data -- specifically cash flow underwriting -- including how these new methods relate to disparate impact. Today’s show is a glimpse of a promising future, harnessing innovative technology to produce lending that is more inclusive, and also more sound. More Links Episode Transcription Podcast with Al Ko - Episode recorded last year with Al Ko of Intuit LendUp Infograph Alternative Credit Data trends and reports Op-Ed by Sasha on innovation in credit scoring More on Sasha and Alex Sasha Orloff is CEO and co-founder of LendUp. LendUp’s mission is to provide anyone with a path to better financial health. The company builds technology, credit products, and educational experiences that haven’t existed before for the emerging middle class -- the 56% of Americans shut out of mainstream banking due to poor credit or income volatility. It has originated more than $1 billion in loans. With offices in San Francisco, CA and Richmond, VA, LendUp is backed by debt and equity financing from venture and social impact investors including Y-Combinator, Kleiner Perkins, Andreessen Horowitz, Google Ventures, Victory Park Capital and Yuri Milner’s Startfund. In June, both Nigel Morris and Frank Rotman of QED Investors joined the LendUp board of directors. Prior to founding LendUp, Sasha held roles in risk management, finance, online acquisitions and customer insights on Citi’s consumer credit team, and most recently served as Senior Vice President on Citigroup's Venture Capital team. He previously worked for the Grameen Foundation Technology Center and The World Bank. He has a B.S. in applied math and economics from the University of California, San Diego and an MBA from Georgetown University. Alex Lintner is President of Experian’s Consumer Information Services, overseeing the company’s US consumer credit bureau and the National Consumer Assistance Centre (NCAC). He’s responsible for all aspects of Experian’s consumer credit activities within the business-to-business marketplace, including delivery and management of value-added credit risk, marketing, and collection products to help clients manage and optimize their customer relationships. Alex was previously CEO and President of Vertafore, a $450+ million revenue insurance industry technology provider. Prior to that he was President of Intuit’s Global Business Division and also Senior Vice President of Strategy, Government Affairs and Corporate Development. He’s also spent 15 years as a consultant, starting as a Business Analyst at Dr. Hoefner & Partners in Munich, Germany and later serving as Vice President of The Boston Consulting Group in their London and San Francisco offices. More for our listeners Our next guest on the show will be another community bank CEO, Mike Butler of Radius Bank in Boston.  Upcoming episodes include a fascinating conversation with Congressman Gregory Meeks on financial innovation and policy; a talk I recorded this year at LendIt with my friend Greg Kidd of Global ID; and three discussions with regtech firms -- JWG in London, Compliance.ai, and Alloy. Speaking of LendIt, I was a guest this month on Peter Renton’s Lend Academy podcast, and he’ll be on our show soon as well. I was also a guest in June on the Commodity Futures Trading Corporation podcast, CFTC Talks, with Andy Busch. And here are my two podcasts with the CFTC, one with Chairman Giancarlo and a recent one with innovation head Dan Gorfine. It’s not too early to register for the fall’s premier fintech event, Money 2020, in October in Las Vegas. I’ll again be MC for the regulatory track, which, remember, is on Sunday -- be sure to plan accordingly!  I’ll also be speaking on the Revolution Stage, which is new this year, about regulation innovation. Also watch for Regtech Rising in December, which I’m helping to plan. We’ll also be posting information on my collaboration with Brett King on his new book on the future of finance -- we’ll have a show and events on that as well, and I’ll be a guest on Brett’s great radio show Breaking Banks this week, on July 5. Please remember to give Barefoot Innovation a five-star rating on iTunes to help us expand the show. I hope you’ll sign up to get emails that bring you the newest podcast, newsletter, and blog posts, at www.jsbarefoot.com.  Follow me on Twitter and our Facebook fan page. And please send in your “buck a show” to keep Barefoot Innovation going! SUPPORT OUR PODCAST Until next time, keep innovating! Subscribe Sign up with your email address to receive news and updates. Email Address Sign Up We respect your privacy. Thank you!

Some organizations are so interesting that we come back to them more than once. Among US regulatory agencies, the most fascinating may be the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. Last July we ran a podcast conversation with the Commission’s Chairman, Christopher Giancarlo, which goes into greater depth about the role of the CFTC and it also contains Chairman Giancarlo’s thought-provoking statement that the top priority facing every regulatory body is to convert the rule book from analog to digital design. The CFTC is at the forefront of regulatory innovation in part because its leader is so passionate about the importance of it. In that spirit, they recruited the perfect person to lead the LabCFTC innovation project -- today’s guest, Daniel Gorfine. Luckily for us, the CFTC was able to attract Dan into government from the fintech sector – I first met him when he was at OnDeck – and he’s been bringing an innovator’s mindset and working models to this venerable government agency. This episode has three very meaty topics, each of which could have been a whole show. First, Dan talks about the vision and work of LabCFTC, sharing insights about how it’s organized that I know other regulators will find helpful. He talks about how they track and facilitate innovation in the financial markets, including a “primer” they issued on rules applying to cryptocurrency. He also explains how they explore new technology for use by the agency, itself -- they call that CFTC 2.0 -- as well as “Digital Reg,” an internal think tank for rapid learning and sharing of tech insight. Second, Dan talks with me about an exciting initiative they’ve just launched, issuing the first-ever CFTC Science Prize Competition Act challenge. They discovered this law empowering agencies to run competitions to solve regulatory problems in science and technology, and they decided to crowdsource ideas on both the problems to tackle and the process to use. Public comments are due July 24. In our conversation, Dan throws out some of the ideas he and his colleagues have thought of -- maybe regulatory data visualization tools, or machine-learning for market surveillance, or machine-readable and machine-executable regulation -- but they want to hear from you. Our listeners are among the most thoughtful people anywhere on regulation innovation, so please comment. You could even become CFTC Innovator of the Year! Our third topic is one that rarely surfaces in the innovation dialogue, and solely needs discussion: the legal and procedural obstacles to government agencies that want to embrace innovation. We could call the topic, government modernization. Think about it. If you were a federal agency wanting to keep up with technology innovation, you would want to be able to do a few things. You would want to be able to try out new technologies, hands-on. If the innovation was something you might adopt for your own agency, you would want to test it before you had to commit to a major procurement budget and procedure. You would also want to be able to brainstorm with a wide range of people, learning from them, thinking through ideas with them. All of this is stunted today by well-intentioned rules that were designed long ago -- for good reason -- to prevent inappropriate influence, backroom deals, and the like. Dan talks in particular about the Anti-Deficiency Act, which restricts procurement activities and prevents the CFTC from being able to try out new kinds of tools. Another issue is the procurement process itself. I met a few months ago with people from a different agency, showing them some innovative technology that could make their regulatory work easier, and one of them said, “If we decided today that we should adopt this, we would have it in seven years.” I’ve talked with other agencies that cite the Federal Advisory Committee Act, with its restrictions on meetings, and the Administrative Procedure Act, which structures the rule-making process and, at some stages, limits interactive dialogue. Agencies have raised concerns about various “government in the sunshine” rules, which again make it difficult to talk informally. Some can’t readily attend a breakfast or lunch event. They have to ask about the value of the meal being served and if it’s more than, I think it’s $15, they can’t eat it, or they have to go through paperwork to pay for it. And of course, there are complex approval processes for participating in various kinds of forums. More than any show we’ve done, this one puts you in the shoes of the regulatory agency and shows how their hands are tied by procedural prohibitions and requirements. I’d love to see someone do a study, maybe a graduate thesis, on how rules that were written in an older, slower era may now undermine the ability of regulators to keep up with exponential change in technology. We could use suggestions on updating them for the digital age. And remember, it’s an issue much broader than finance. I’ve been in and around Washington for decades and can remember the bad old days before some of these rules were created -- indeed, I remember some of the bad old practices that led to them. Still, we don’t need to straightjacket our regulators. Other countries have a much more fluid discussion between agencies and industry, and also have the ability to try things. One model is the Bank of England’s Fintech Accelerator, which explores new technology for the bank itself. And Dan and I both participated in London last month in the amazing AML Tech Sprint run by the UK Financial Conduct Authority -- which is a stunning model of innovative regulatory process. Its leaders were my guests on the last podcast we posted (which my friend Peter Renton of LendAcademy and LendIt called the “most fascinating discussion he’s ever heard on the future of financial regulation” -- if you missed it, check it out). Meanwhile, here’s some great news. Just a few days ago, Congressman Austin Scott (R-GA) introduced the CFTC Research and Development Modernization Act, H.R. 6121. Dan refers to it in our talk – it’s bipartisan legislation to address some of these hurdles at the CFTC. We’ll link to it in the show notes. The bill would permit the Commission to collaborate on projects with fintech developers. It would also allow it to receive “gifts” for R&D purposes, including software to try out, subject to common sense safeguards. The bill echoes work by Congressman Patrick McHenry (R-NC), who has sought to facilitate innovation by all the financial regulatory agencies. And the US agencies, themselves, are all moving ahead, too. The CFPB’s Acting Director, Mick Mulvaney, plans to launch a regulatory sandbox. The FDIC held a tremendously impressive technology forum. Five US agencies attended the UK tech sprint. Regulation innovation is coming, and no one is more thoughtful about it than Dan Gorfine. More links Our Podcast with Christopher Woolard of the UK Financial Conduct Authority Our Podcast with Nick Cook, the FCA’s head of regtech FinRegLab, which is leading regulatory innovation in the US Link to transcription of this episode (Note that transcripts may sometimes contain errors and that transcript timing notations do not match the posted podcast) More on Dan Gorfine Daniel Gorfine is Chief Innovation Officer and Director, LabCFTC at the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission. LabCFTC is dedicated to facilitating market-enhancing financial technology (FinTech) innovation, fair market competition, and proactive regulatory excellence and understanding of emerging technologies. Daniel is also an Adjunct Professor at the Georgetown University Law Center where he teaches a course on ‘FinTech Law & Policy.’ Daniel was most recently Vice President, External Affairs & Associate General Counsel at OnDeck, and previously served as director of financial markets policy and legal counsel at the Milken Institute think tank where he focused on technology-driven financial innovation, capital access, and financial market policy. Earlier in his career, Gorfine worked at the international law firm Covington & Burling LLP and served a clerkship with U.S. District Court Judge Catherine C. Blake in the District of Maryland. A graduate of Brown University (A.B.), Daniel holds a J.D. from George Washington University Law School and an M.A. from the Paul H. Nitze School for Advanced International Studies (SAIS) at Johns Hopkins University. More for our listeners We have many more great podcasts in the queue. We’ll talk with another community bank CEO, Mike Butler of Radius Bank.  We’ll have two more episodes that we recorded this year at LendIt. One is a discussion of new research by LendUp and Experian, on credit reporting, and the other is with Greg Kidd, Founder of Global ID.  We also recorded two episodes at last month’s Comply 2018 conference in New York, with two regtech firms -- Compliance.ai, which offers machine-readable regulatory compliance, and Alloy, which has high-tech solutions for meeting the Know-Your-Customer rules in AML. Speaking of LendIt, I was a guest last week on Lend Academy podcast, and Peter Renton will be on our show soon as well, so watch for those. I’m also excited we’ll have several leading members of Congress on the show in the coming weeks. So, stay tuned! The summer conference slowdown is nearly upon us, but I hope to see you at upcoming speeches and events including: American Bankers Association Regulatory Compliance Conference, June 26, Nashville, TN Money 2020, October in Las Vegas. Among other things, I’ll be speaking on the Revolution Stage about the regulation revolution Also, watch for upcoming information on my collaboration with Brett King on his new book on the future of finance -- we’ll have a show and events on that as well. If you listen to Barefoot Innovation on iTunes, please leave a five-star rating on the show to help us build it. Also please remember to send in your “buck a show” to keep it going, and come to jsbarefoot.com for today’s show notes and to join our email list, so you’ll get the newest podcast, newsletter, and blog posts. As always, please follow me on Twitter and Facebook. Support our Podcast And tell me what you’re thinking about digitizing regulation. Let’s widen this dialogue to more people and more and more ideas! Subscribe Sign up with your email address to receive news and updates. Email Address Sign Up We respect your privacy. Thank you!

This is the most unique, and the most consequential, show we’ve ever done. If our thousands of listeners all think about it and especially if you share it widely, it has the most potential to actually change the financial regulatory world for the better and also in turn, therefore, to improve the financial world, too. It goes right into the heart of the most important work, being done by the most innovative people, on redesigning regulation for the digital age. My guests are Chris Woolard and Nick Cook of the UK’s Financial Conduct Authority. We sat down to record it on the last night of their enormous, ambitious, mold-breaking tech sprint held in London a few weeks ago. This regtech sprint, the fifth one they’ve done, focused on how to use new technology to combat financial crime. The sprints -- which are hackathons -- play a dual role, both sparking new ideas on specific regulatory challenges and also innovating in regulatory process, itself. I’ll set the scene for you. It was a Thursday night, dinner time, in the London offices of EY, in the Canary Wharf section of the city on the Thames, just a few blocks from the FCA’s building. EY generously offered their beautiful training facility for the sprint, because the FCA’s building is too small to hold the 400 people who were there by the end, or even the 260 who had been there for three days, working feverishly, day and night, to invent new solutions for money laundering. Those people had arrived on Tuesday morning and had self-formed into sixteen small teams, usually with total strangers, in a format mixing organizations and most importantly, mixing knowledge and skill types. Regulatory experts and AML experts and lawyers had worked elbow-to-elbow with tech experts, brainstorming ideas together and then translating these, live, into computer code, using test data provided by the participating tech companies. We sat down for this recording in a quiet conference room, just as the main gathering began to shift into post-conference socializing and bonding and celebrating over food and drink. It was one of those special moments where everyone feels elated and excited, and at the same time, completely drained. For me, as I think I say two or three times in this show, the sprint was the most fascinating and inspiring thing I’ve ever experienced. I hope that listening to it will inspire you to take up the FCA’s challenge to build on it in your own country and with your counterparts in other countries, and perhaps to take up their offer to help. People came to the sprint from all over the world, including, I’m especially happy to say, a substantial contingent of both regulators and financial companies from the United States (and also a new nonprofit, FinRegLab, with which I’m affiliated and which is building an empirical testing environment for regtech concepts in Washington). The FCA is at the forefront of a global regulatory awakening about the need to innovate regulatory models as technology increasingly outpaces the speed at which government can change. Its most famous innovation is its Regulatory Sandbox, which enables fintech innovation to be tested in a controlled experiment under the regulator’s close scrutiny and is being emulated throughout the world. Less well-known is their equally important innovation on the regtech side, for which they invented this creative new format, the regulator’s TechSprint.   Both the sandbox and the sprints have three key elements essential for regulatory innovation. First, they make collaboration happen, especially between the regulatory and tech worlds. Second, they enable very fast learning by the regulator, through direct, hands-on experience. And third, and most crucially, they use experimentation. They provide a safe space for trying things out, testing, learning, shaping -- quickly and cheaply. They apply the techniques that technology innovators figured out years ago, about the need to start small, try something, adjust as you learn, and if some ideas are going to fail, let them “fail fast” in a controlled setting where critical lessons can be learned early, and no harm can be done. These ideas are hard for people to grasp in the abstract, especially the notion that regulators need to get comfortable with learning through trial and error because there’s no other way to learn fast enough. I’m a former bank regulator and I know this idea is completely alien to regulatory culture and tradition, which have been designed, for good reason, to be careful and thorough and deliberate. A couple of years ago, a senior U.S. bank regulator told me that her agency had figured this out by spending time on the FCA’s website, reaching this epiphany that, the regulator doesn’t need to have all the answers -- even can’t have all the answers on tech change, before moving forward. It’s really the other way around. You have to move forward, to get to the answers. Chris and Nick describe the very same process -- as Chris calls it, the light bulb turning on, suddenly realizing it was riskier NOT to move, even though you’re not sure exactly what to do and what will happen. To me, the most interesting thing you’ll hear in this show is their voice as they describe this journey, the struggle toward creating a new way to work. Again, this was the fifth tech sprint. Be sure listen to my two earlier FCA shows, one with Chris that explains the FCA’s regulatory sandbox and one with Nick on regtech. The regtech one featured the breakthrough, two-week sprint held last November, successfully proving that regulatory reporting requirements could be updated directly, computer-to-computer, by issuing a rule change in the form of code, rather than words. That one was like a regulatory moonshot -- it could eventually change regulation, itself. This new sprint last month, by contrast, focused on the specific use case that’s most ripe for regtech transformation -- anti-money laundering. The UN estimates that there’s $1.6 - $2 trillion in annual global financial crime, and that we catch less than 1 percent -- despite spending tens of billions of dollars each year. And it’s getting worse. The criminals and terrorists today use sophisticated technology and operate as networks, while banks and governments use old technologies, with data trapped in silos. As Chris and Nick said, it will take a network, to beat a network. Chris also said that a million children are trafficked, each year. There’s a moment, in our conversation, where Nick says the sprint brings people to realizing that collectively, we can actually DO something about money laundering -- and you can hear the tone of excitement in his voice. For decades, we couldn’t really do much better, because we’ve had analog-era technology. Today we can use digitally-native tools. We can use them to fight crime and also to tackle nearly every other aspect of financial regulation -- all the areas where problems are so hard to solve. Financial inclusion. Consumer education. Preventing discrimination and predatory finance. Identity verification. Risk assessment. Financial reporting. New technology can make it all work better, and cost less, at the same time -- something that in the past was completely impossible. Believe it or not, I’m actually curbing my enthusiasm for this. This is the tamped down version. I think this is a regulatory revolution, beginning to move. Please listen to this episode, share it with everyone you know, and join in the dialogue. More on Chris Woolard Christopher Woolard is Executive Director of Strategy and Competition and an Executive Board Member of the Financial Conduct Authority. He’s responsible for policy, strategy, competition, market intelligence, consumer issues, the Chief Economist's department, communications and the Innovate initiative. He is chair of the FCA's Policy Steering Committee and a non-executive board member of the Payment Systems Regulator. Christopher joined the FCA in January 2013. Previously he was Group Director and Content Board member at Ofcom. He has spent most of his career in regulation or policy development including working at the BBC and in government as a senior civil servant. He is a Sloan Fellow of London Business School. More on Nick Cook Nick Cook leads the FCA’s RegTech activities, including the FCA’s TechSprint events - the first events of their kind convened by a financial regulator. He is responsible for creating the FCA’s Analytics Centre of Excellence to drive the organization’s use of data science, machine learning and artificial intelligence.  Nick is the FCA’s representative on the European Securities and Markets Authority’s (ESMA) Financial Innovation Standing Committee and an advisor to the RegTech for Regulators Accelerator Programme. Nick joined the Financial Services Authority (the FCA’s predecessor) in 2009, initially in its Enforcement and Market Oversight Division. Prior to joining the regulator, Nick qualified as a chartered accountant at KPMG Forensic. More for our listeners Full interview transcript. We have many more great podcasts in the queue. We’ll talk with another community bank CEO, Mike Butler of Radius Bank.  We’ll have two more episodes recorded this year at LendIt. One is a discussion of new research by LendUp and Experian, on credit reporting, and the other is with my friend Greg Kidd of Global ID.  We also recorded two episodes at last month’s Comply 2018 conference in New York, with two regtech firms -- Compliance.ai, which offers machine-readable regulatory compliance, and Alloy, which has high-tech solutions for meeting the Know-Your-Customer rules in AML. Speaking of LendIt, I’ll also be a guest on Peter Renton’s Lend Academy podcast, and he’ll be on our show soon as well, so watch for those. I’m also excited we’ll have several leading members of Congress on the show in the coming weeks. So, stay tuned! I hope to see you at upcoming speeches and events including: CFSI’s Emerge, this week in Los Angeles, CA North Dakota Bankers Convention, June 10-12, Fargo, ND American Bankers Association Regulatory Compliance Conference, June 26, Nashville, TN Money 2020, October in Las Vegas. Among other things, I’ll be speaking on the Revolution Stage about the regulation revolution Also, watch for upcoming information on my collaboration with Brett King on his new book on the future of finance -- we’ll have a show and events on that as well. If you listen to Barefoot Innovation on iTunes, please leave a five star rating on the show to help us build it. Also please remember to send in your “buck a show” to keep it going, and come to jsbarefoot.com for today’s show notes and to join our email list, so you’ll get the newest podcast, newsletter, and blog posts. As always, please follow me on Twitter and Facebook. And tell me what you’re thinking about digitizing regulation. Let’s widen this dialogue to more people, and more and more ideas! Support our Podcast Subscribe Sign up with your email address to receive news and updates. Email Address Sign Up We respect your privacy. Thank you!