Podcast appearances and mentions of mike i'm

We have the pleasure of sitting down with Role Tea CEO and co-founder Mike Johnson to discuss the topic of entrepreneurship while other and what building an effective network looks like for underrepresented communities. Connect with Mike (and Role Tea) on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikecjohnson1/https://www.linkedin.com/company/role-tea/about/Learn more about Role Tea:https://www.drinkroletea.com/https://www.instagram.com/roletea/?hl=enhttps://twitter.com/getroletea?lang=enhttps://www.facebook.com/GetRoleTea/Connect with us: https://linktr.ee/livingcorporateTRANSCRIPTZach: My grandfather was born in Mississippi and was a sharecropper on a cotton farm. With only an elementary education, he eventually moved to a small Illinois town to work for John Deere. After working for over 20 years, he established his wealth through entrepreneurship, namely real estate. "Remember," he would say to me as a child, "jobs are to pay your bills. If you want to be successful and make real money, do something else." Though he was successful, his journey was challenging and fraught with various hardship. It actually reminds me of an excerpt from a piece from Inc Magazine authored by Web Smith called "What It Really Means to Be a Black Entrepreneur in America," and I quote, "Regardless of race or ethnicity, entrepreneurs always begin at a disadvantage. However, blacks tend to need to reach levels of traction with our own money since seed money is often unavailable. This contributes to the rarity of URM entrepreneurs. Richard Kirby, vice president of Vinrock, recently compiled a list that reported a total of 23 African-American investors in the U.S. It should be of no surprise that black founders receive less than 1% of institutional capital. As important as money is the ability to realize your potential through mentorship and direction. This begins with confidence, belonging, and familiarity." End quote. Listen to that. Confidence, belonging, and familiarity. Networking is the catalyst for each of these things, but what does building such networks look like for underrepresented communities? My name is Zach, and you're listening to Living Corporate.Ade: So today we're talking about entrepreneurship and what it means to be an entrepreneur as a non-white person.Zach: I'm glad that we're dedicating an episode to this. Living Corporate isn't just about working for someone else, but also we want to explore ways in which you can work for yourself.Ade: For sure, and shout-out to your grandpa. That's an amazing story.Zach: Yeah, it's inspiring for sure, and while it's impressive--you know, he built his empire through real estate in a small Midwestern town after building up decades of social equity by being in the community, right? Like, he bought homes, like, no one else was really wise enough to invest in, then he fixed them himself, then he managed all of his own maintenance on this homes.Ade: Wow. Yeah, I mean, he weaved his own boot straps out of thin air and then pulled himself up by them. Like, he's an amazing success story, no doubt. To your point, in 2019, the world is just way more connected and social, which is cool, but it also creates more invisible hurdles and roles and just stuff to navigate in being a full-time or even moderately successful part-time entrepreneur, right? And those three things that you quoted--confidence, belonging, and familiarity--those are all needed in the hyper-connected world.Zach: It's just funny, 'cause I was telling a colleague that because of that fact that entrepreneurship success is built on access to capital, which lie in relationships, that people of color are well-benefitted by having partners and backing that don't really look like them, and I remember I had this conversation, and you would think this person, like, thought that I had said, I don't know, just something, like, really racist or, like--"What are you talking about? What are you trying to say? I mean, anybody can do anything." I was like, "OK, all right. Yes, we can do anything." And it also helps to know the right people so that we can have access to things, so that we can do the things that we want. I mean, like, let's be realistic. It frustrates me sometimes when we talk about, like, success and striving to do better and building things that we don't acknowledge, like, the very real capitalist structures that exist, right? Not even that we're fighting against, but that we have to plug into to be successful. Like, come on. Like, this is America. Everybody does not--everybody with a great idea does not wake up and then work really hard towards that idea and then somehow, like, become successful. There's plenty of people out there with great ideas who work very hard who are never successful, right?Ade: Right, and because people of color often don't have access to power or the relationships or the rooms in which these bills are being made in these countries to be movers and shakers there's a bit of a disadvantage. Let's look at the most prominent black clothing brand ever, FUBU. Long story short, FUBU popped off by having a relationship with LL Cool J, and yes, that LL Cool J. He is black, but guess who else LL Cool J had a commercial partnership with? Gap. He plugged FUBU in the middle of a Gap promotional commercial, and he did it while he was rapping, so nobody who was on set or was clearing the ad afterwards really noticed.Zach: Right, and it's a crazy story, but people just forget about that and the fact that Damon John, he had a ton of creative methods to promote FUBU, right? Like, he had a ton of different ways he was kind of getting it out on the street, but it was that Gap commercial--that's the one that really got 'em on the map and really--anyone who studies FUBU and studies, like, advertising, they know about the LL commercial, right? Like, it's common knowledge that's--that was the tipping point for that brand, and so, like, the point is entrepreneurship is changing already. Like, the majority of entrepreneurs don't make it, but being someone who doesn't have advantages built on centuries of historical inequity makes it even harder. Not to say it isn't possible. I'm not saying that it's impossible at all, it's just--it's just hard.Ade: Correct. Wouldn't it be dope if we had an entrepreneur with, let's say, over a 15-year track record of successfully launching dozens of new products or services in the food and beverage media and industrial goods industry? In fact, I would love to hear from someone who has experience maybe launching a brand from concept to the shelf of three of the top ten grocery chains in the country.Zach: Oh, you mean like our guest Mike C. Johnson?Ade and Zach: Whaaaaaat?Zach: [imitates air horns, then Sound Man supplies them] Y'all thought we weren't gonna have these air horns this season. Y'all thought. That's right. We still here with these air horns. We are here with these air horns. More fire for your head top. I'm not playing.Ade: This is really all Zach. I'm blaming it on you.Zach: Aye, drop the air horns. In fact, hold on, drop extra air horns, because we had someone who was actually from Jamaica hit us up on Instagram and say, "Please keep the air horns coming, and make them louder."Ade: Make them louder?Zach: Make them louder, so we here for y'all. We here for the people, 'cause we got it like that. We love y'all, okay?Ade: Not surprised. Not surprised in the least. All right, y'all. Keep listening for a really dope conversation.Zach: And we're back. And as we shared before the break, we have Mike Johnson with us. Welcome to the show, Mike. How are you doing?Mike: I'm doing good, man. How are you doing?Zach: I'm doing really good, man. So today we're talking about entrepreneurship. So can you tell me--where did your entrepreneurial itch come from or start with?Mike: Oh, man. I really can trace it back to my early 20s. I had a couple ventures around that time that I went after. I had a website called VirtualREGallery, which was basically a website that displayed virtual tours of real estate listings before virtual tours were pretty popular. I was a realtor for a little while, and I also did some construction on the side. So I've always kind of had that aspiration to somewhat control my own destiny, but I would say what really motivated me to start Role Tea was just as I learned more about marketing and innovation, I always just had this dream to want to turn an idea or a vision to a concept and go start to finish and pretty much have complete control over how that product will come to market. So that to me has been the most gratifying part of entrepreneurship. Even to this day when I walk into a store or restaurant and I see someone, you know, drinking Role Tea and, you know, just randomly, that to this day still makes me a little excited, 'cause I'm like, "Man, 3 years ago that product was just an idea in my head, and now people can actually purchase it and consume it in a store." So that's just probably the most gratifying thing, to have that control over the idea from start to finish.Zach: That's amazing. And, you know, you talking about your previous ventures, it reminds me of another question that--you know, in season 1 we had a guest who brought up the concept of failing forward--failing quickly and failing forward, so can you talk a little bit about that concept and perhaps what some of your biggest Ls--and we'll say Ls are lessons--that you've taken in your entrepreneurial journey?Mike: Yeah, man. That's a great question. The crazy thing for me about failure that I've learned in this experience is that--you know, I've realized that you really only fail at almost anything when you quit. Like, going into this venture, you know, sometimes your mind can play tricks on you. You start thinking about the worst things that could happen and failure and whatnot, but when you get into it you realize that, man, virtually everything that happens to a business can be resolved if you have the fortitude to try to work through it. So, I mean, you know, we're no different. Like, you know, everyone talks about the great side of entrepreneurship, but man, we've had at least four or five near-death experiences with our company in 2 years. Like, you know, from running out of cash, which a lot of startups have that issue with running out of money, to, you know, having key suppliers back out last minute, literally weeks before launching into Wegmans, which is a 95+ grocery chain from Virginia up to upstate New York, to having distributors back out the last minute. I mean, all of these things have taken out other companies, but for us we just looked at it as, you know, "Okay, here's another problem." You know, "What are our options just to get past it?" And you kind of take it on the chin and move forward. So, you know, you really only fail at almost anything when you quit or when you run out of, you know, hands to play. So once you realize that and you realize that, "Wow," you know, "what happens with me and this business is largely up to my control," it's kind of empowering once you realize that. But as far as just lessons in general around business, to me the two biggest lessons that come to mind for me is--the first one is just starting as small as you can until you can completely the validate the concept, and when I say validate the concept I mean that, you know, you have a product or a concept that people are gonna want to buy, where the economics of it will actually be able to create a business, right? There's a lot of ideas out there that you can sell, but you're never gonna get the price point that you need to actually have a business. Making sure that you actually know who the consumer is. You know how to talk to them or the channels to sell to them. Those are all the things that are required to really validate a concept, and it's best to try to do that on a very small scale to start. That's definitely been a lesson that we've learned early on, and then I think the second big lesson that I've learned in this in terms of failure as well is just trying to get the business to a point where it can be self-sustainable as quickly as possible, right? So right now we're going through some pretty, you know, dramatic changes around our operations to get a little bit more margin back in house versus giving it to a supplier or an outsourced vendor, and that's just all in an effort to get our business to a point where it can pretty much eat off of what it kills, right? We can sustain ourselves based on our own selves as opposed to relying too much on outside investments. So that's a piece of advice I would give to any aspiring entrepreneur. Even if you want to raise capital, it's just good to have financial discipline to try to get your business as self-sustainable as possible as quickly as possible. So there's many lessons, but those two stand out the most.Zach: And so, you know, you've talked--you talked a little bit about Role Tea, and we're definitely gonna get into that as we get further along in this interview. I'm curious to know about your ventures. Could you--would you mind walking us through? Typically when I meet--the reason I ask your ventures is because typically when I meet entrepreneurs, they may have, like, one big thing, but they have a few other things kind of cooking around them. So I'm curious to know, what are your ventures right now?Mike: No, yeah, that is very true. We tend to have short attention spans, so it's easy to kind of get involved with different things. You know, we launched Role Tea in December, November timeframe of 2016, so we're right at the 2 years, and to be honest, man, aside from, you know, being a new father, which I actually became a father the same year I became an entrepreneur with Role Tea, that's been my primary focus. Now that Role Tea is a little bit more established in terms of distributors and it doesn't take as much of me doing virtually everything to keep it going, I am starting to get back a little bit into consulting. That's something that I did prior to launching Role Tea, so I do like to work with other startups and help them however way I can, but aside from that, man, the bulk of my focus right now is with Role Tea.Zach: What challenges do you believe that you've had as a black entrepreneur? And I ask that because in the research that Ade and I have been doing, we've noticed that there are some challenges that are unique to being a non-white builder of businesses, and so I'm curious to know, like, if you--have you run into any challenges that you believe are unique juxtaposed to your white counterparts? And if so, what are they?Mike: Entrepreneurship, just inherent in the way it is, is already built with plenty of challenges. White, black, yellow, whatever. So sometimes it can be a challenge to understand, "Okay, is this a challenge that I'm facing because I'm simply an entrepreneur, or is this a challenge that I'm facing because I'm a black entrepreneur?" And that can be difficult sometimes to decipher, but one challenge that I think is definitely tied to us being, you know, African-American [and own a business,] especially in the food and beverage industry. It's just the fact that, you know, we are launching a beverage brand that is--our intent is to scale to 100+ million in sales and potentially exit, so we're treating our business like a true startup, not like a family-owned business where we're just, you know, looking to sell locally and et cetera, and I think that that's a very different thing in the food and beverage industry amongst a black entrepreneur that most people would expect. So I think that just simply not having a whole lot of examples to point to of black-owned food and beverage brands that have been able to do that successfully makes it hard for a lot of people to see the vision and see the potential in our concept, and I think that's especially true primarily with investors. We've actually had, you know, pretty good success with, for example, some major retailers. We've gotten our product onto the shelves of Whole Foods, of Wegmans. Those are two of the top-rated grocery chains in the country. Hy-Vee is another one. You know, but from a business standpoint, I think that's where we've seen most of the challenge in terms of, you know, working with investors and things of that nature, and I think that's largely because there's just not a whole lot of examples of African-American-owned food and beverage brands that have done it to that level, which is what we're aspiring to do. So I'm sure that there is plenty more, but that's definitely one that I can say for certain I think is unique to us.Zach: So what advice would you give to the person who thinks, you know, entrepreneurship is an all-or-nothing thing and it isn't--they're not starting their journey because they're afraid of missing a steady paycheck?Mike: Yeah, man. That's definitely something that is--I find is very common amongst a lot of people. I struggle with that myself. The first thing is you don't have to be all in to be an entrepreneur, right? Don't listen to everything that you see on Instagram and, you know, social media. There's a lot of people out here glamorizing entrepreneurship, and entrepreneurship is great, right? I spent 12+ years in the corporate world, and now I'm 2 years as an entrepreneur, so I can give you the perspective of both sides, and there's definitely a lot of advantages on the entrepreneur side, but there is nothing wrong with side-hustling it for as long as you can, right? That extra paycheck from your job is--it actually can position your business to be more successful, you know? Thankfully I have 12+ years of experience in the corporate world working for other people, learning, collecting that nice six-figure salary so that I can actually build up a savings to even have a chance to do what I'm doing now. So it's all about when is the right time for you, even if you ever want to go all in, right? All in meaning you're full-time with your entrepreneurship venture, but that's the first thing. Don't feel pressured to go all in, right? And when you go all in is another big question that I hear a lot, and it's also one that I--challenge that I dealt with, and, you know, there's no right or wrong answer. Everyone has to lok at their particular situation to know when is the right time, but I will say that there's probably about four or five things that, you know, anyone that's in that situation is looking to do, to transition, to go all in, they should be looking at. Like, the first thing is, you know, what does your business require? Like, for example, if you're gonna launch a catering business versus a restaurant, you know, they're two very different demands and requirements, right? When you're talking about a restaurant, you have to deal with a storefront, which likely comes with remodeling, et cetera. Not the typical type of thing that you can get, you know, to market on the weekends and evenings, right? Whereas a catering service, you can do that evenings, weekends. You can pretty much side-hustle that until you actually get paying customers before you even have to leave your job. So the type of business that you're looking to start a lot of times will dictate largely when you can actually go all in or if and when you can actually cut the 9-to-5 path. The other thing you've got to look at is, you know, what type of support do you have going into it, right? Do you have people, whether it's family members or friends, that can help you out early on without having to get paid, right? I mean, early on there's no cash coming in. To get it stood up, you're gonna need people to help. You're gonna need your team. What type of support do you have? If you have a pretty good support system, you may be able to go all in a little bit sooner. Also you've got to look at, you know, what are your responsibilities in terms of financially and with people, right? Are you 21 years old, no kids, no family, very low bills? You know, that gives you a whole lot more flexibility in terms of what you can do sooner and the risks that you can take, whereas if you are--like, in my situation, I started, you know, Role Tea already in my mid-30s. Like I said, I'm a father, newly father, so I have to move a lot different in that situation.Zach: Congratulations on that, by the way.Mike: Oh, I definitely appreciate it, man. Fatherhood is a lot of fun, a lot of fun. But yeah, you have to move a lot different if you have a lot of financial responsibilities and people responsibilities. Obviously you have to be a little bit more smart about when you go all in. You also might have to look at are there skills that you just don't have yet but you need to develop before you go all in, right? And then lastly, this is probably often times, you know, skipped and not really taken into consideration, but you definitely have to look at what's your appetite for risk and uncertainty, right? Once you pull the plug on that 9-to-5 and you're all in, you know, on the good side is it really motivates you to have a sense of urgency, to move forward fast, but at the same time it can also be stressful by not having that paycheck coming in every week or two or whatever it was you got paid, and that can definitely cause a lot of stress and anxiety, and if you're the type of person that doesn't deal well with that type of uncertainty and stress, #1: you're probably going to struggle as an entrepreneur, 'cause that's gonna come naturally, but that may also dictate you keeping your business as a side hustle a little bit longer. So I never tell someone exactly what to do in that situation, but I would definitely tell you that those are probably the four or five things that you should be thinking about in your situation to determine, you know, when you go all in or if you go all in at all.Zach: And so, you know--and I alluded to this earlier about some of your challenges as a black entrepreneur, but the research I was speaking to specifically had to do with the variance in acquiring capital, right? So venture capital, angel investments, and other types of non-business loan-sourced funding. I'm curious, have you had any challenges in acquiring that type of funding, and really what's been your journey in building those relationships with those with access with the capital to help your ventures?Mike: Yeah, that's a great question. It's definitely one of the bigger challenges that I'm finding with not just our business but other black-owned entrepreneurs, and it's a complex one, which I--I know that this is probably an area of business that's foreign to a lot of people, so I definitely want to make sure I kind of break this down because, you know, I have an MBA, but yet 3 years ago I didn't understand hardly anything about the idea of raising capital. I've had to learn a lot through this venture, and the challenges that are unique to African-Americans is--it's kind of a snowball effect, so let me explain it like this. So investment in startups typically happens in a progression, right? So, you know, the first step is typically money out of your own pocket, right? So that's called bootstrapping, right? Maybe you've worked in the corporate world for a number of years, you've built up some savings. Maybe you got an inheritance. Whatever the case may be, right? But you need some sort of cash to get things going very early on. That's typically the first step. Second step is you look to friends and family, right? "Who do I know in my own personal network?" Friends, family, associates, that have the means to write a $10, 20, 30, 50,000 check or more, right? That's the second step, and then once you get past that, then you get into what's called angel investors, which are typically either high net worth or high-income individuals who choose to invest in startups, right? And then lastly you get to venture capital, which essentially are, you know, funds that investors who are called limited partners, or LPs, invest in, and they then have managers of those funds look for startups to invest in, right? And they can go from $500,000 up to, you know, $100,000,000, right? They write very large checks. So that's the typical progression of a startup raising capital for their business. So let's think about that, right? Now, what we know about African-Americans is we traditionally have a lower income than non-whites. We also traditionally have a lower net worth, which is probably more significant, than whites. So going back to the very first step in that progression, right? Most of us could struggle with having the means to even bootstrap, to have that $20, 30, 50,000 just to get started, right? Because of the points that I just made, right? And if you get past that hurdle, then now you have to find friends and family that also can write that $10, 15, 20,000 check or more. Again, that's a struggle that's unique for African-Americans moreso than others because of the points that I just made. So right out the gate as an African-American entrepreneur you have some disadvantages, right? And VCs and angels, you have to get past those first couple stages typically before they're even interested in looking at your business, right? And the crazy thing about investment, the investment world, that I've learned is investors rely significantly on their personal networks to even be introduced to an entrepreneur to invest in. So they're--again, how many African-Americans have the social network, the connections that people that have that kind of means to write those checks, right? So it's a snowball effect that, collectively speaking, puts us at a disadvantage, and again, that's definitely a challenge that is well-documented. We've experienced it. Other founders that we know have experienced it, but, you know, how you deal with that is--again, I don't want to make it sound simple, but the first thing that we've tried to do is just bridge that gap in terms of relationships, right? And that's really done largely by just putting yourself out there, putting yourself in situations to meet people that can invest in your brand. So, you know, the very first angel investor that we had we met at the Black Enterprise Entrepreneurs Summit last year. We were chosen as a finalist to pitch in that competition, so, you know, we got a lot of visibility at that show down in Houston last year. We met with our first investor there, our first angel investor I should say, and, you know, months down the road after the rapport was established he decided to invest in us, right? So that was an example of where we had to kind of bridge that gap by just going out and making those connections, and then the second thing really is just--you know, you have to have the mindset that you're gonna make your startup undeniable, right? You know, if someone says no now, which we've definitely heard tons of nos, and you're gonna hear nos. Raising capital is very difficult for any startup, so you have to have the mindset that, you know, "Okay, you say no today, but we're gonna build up the traction that we need over the next 6 months to 12 months to the point where if you say no you're basically foolish," right? So you just have to make your startup--you have to make your startup undeniable, 'cause everyone likes to make money, and I think it's a little bit more of a challenge to show that we can do that, but, you know, if you can definitely demonstrate that, people will invest in your startup. It's just a little bit difficult for us for those reasons.Zach: That's just such a great point around--especially when you started--when you talked about, like, the various levels of investment, right? So I'll even use Living Corporate as an example. For us, you know, I'm one of the few people in my family even in corporate America. We don't all have money like that. I certainly would not--I don't even feel comfortable. I mean, and some of that might just be culture too, Mike. I don't feel comfortable walking to a member of my family talking about, "Hey, would you mind investing $10,000 to help us hire writers and videographers and so on, so on, and so forth," and really invest in Living Corporate. Like, what? You know what I mean? Like, just the thought of that, right? And then, you know, we had an episode again in season 1 when we were talking about family [inaudible]--like, the wealth gap. The wealth inequality gap, and there's plenty of research to show that in the next 10, 20 years, that the average value of a black home will be zero dollars, right? So you're talking about the fact that starting up and getting all this capital, for a community who has no money--like, we don't have the centuries of privilege and things of that nature to have an uncle or a second cousin who can write a check, right? And I think that's just a really good point. You know, I'm curious about Role Tea, so let's dig into that a little bit more. So first off, when can Living Corporate get a case of the tea?Mike: I'm always open to giving Role Tea to whoever wants it, so yeah, I'll let you go with the second question.Zach: [laughs] Okay, so we're good on the tea. And then why tea? Why Role Tea, and then what was the inspiration behind Role Tea?Mike: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, we definitely got you on the case. No problem there. As far as the inspiration for the tea, we always say on the--we launched the tea 2 years ago, but the idea for Role Tea really started probably in my early 20s more than 10 years ago where I had the experience of losing 100 pounds, right? So, you know, I'm like 22 years old, and I get that scale shock where I go to the doctor and--I know I'm obviously way too big, but I didn't realize I had actually gone over 300 pounds, and I'm like, "Man," like, "Okay, something's gotta change." So at that point my relationship with food changed, and I learned that, you know, a lot of the traditional foods and beverages that I had consumed, that were, you know, typically less than healthy, right, if I'm creative I can remix those recipes to be better for me, still taste good, and actually serve a purpose to either help me feel better or perform better, and so, you know, over the course of the next 2 to 3 years I lost 100 pounds just, you know, changing the way I ate and exercising more, et cetera. So fast forward to 2015. At this time I was training for a boxing match. I'm a huge boxing fan. I've boxed for several years. Anyone that knows me knows that I'm passionate about boxing just as I am about business, but I was training for a boxing match in 2015, and I noticed--again, now in my mid-30s, you know, after training, what used to take a day or two to feel normal again, not feel sore, not feel stiff, was now taking 2 or 3 days, right? So I started to research beverages that I could drink--you know, not supplements, but just every day traditional beverages--Zach: Natural.Mike: Yeah, natural beverages that I could incorporate into my diet that may help, and so, you know, that's when I learned about ingredients like tumeric and ginger and, you know, green tea and tart cherries, which all have natural anti-inflammatory properties, and so I looked for options in the store, and virtually everything I saw was $6 or $7 bottles of juice, [inaudible] sugar. So, you know, my background is in innovation, new product development and launches, so I immediately saw a business opportunity. I went to a friend of mine named Corey Benson with the idea, and he has an operations background. He was running a manufacturing plant at the time, and he said, "You know what, man? Like, I see people every day that are standing up at the job for 9, 10 hours a day. They're popping Aleves. They're, you know, popping Advils and drinking Mountain Dews to deal with the soreness from just their job," right? So he immediately saw the pain point that, you know, the concept that we were thinking about would address, but he saw it from a regular 9-to-5 job, whereas I was dealing with it from a weekend warrior boxing perspective, right? So we immediately saw, like, "Wow, this whole thing around inflammation and a functional beverage that can help with that has some legs, and it probably could impact a lot of people." So from there we were ready to go. We started to research the industry a lot more in 2015 and 2016. We worked with a development company to take our recipes that we had created with tea and juice and spices, like tumeric and ginger, to basically create a product that could be sold on a shelf. We chose tea because, you know, tea is a very popular drink, and it still is. Shout-out to Guru, even though he talked about lemonade. But tea's a very popular drink, and the great thing about it is, again, you know, a lot of the options before were juices, which is more expensive. Tea is a much less expensive catalyst to use to deliver functional spices and benefits, so we figured we would be able to create a functional drink that's also affordable, right? So we're probably one of the first functional beverages in stores like Whole Foods and Wegmans that was under $3 per bottle, and again--plus I'm a huge iced tea fan, right? So that was a natural ingredient, or product, to use. So, you know, we worked through the recipe process in 2016, and we launched a product literally the night before Thanksgiving in the D.C. Metro area in 2016, and, you know, we started off just very independent, selling out of the trunk of our cars, and, you know, now we're currently sold in over 100 locations, from Virginia up to upstate New York as well as a few states in the Midwest. So right now we're just, you know, looking to continue to grow the business, bring on more partners, bring on more investors, and just see how far it can go.Zach: Man, that's incredible, man. You know, and down the road, once, you know, we get this tea and we drink it, we'll make sure to shout y'all out on the podcast on the part of our Favorite Things.Mike: Definitely. Definitely do that.Zach: Yeah, man. Now, this has been a great conversation. I really want to know where people can learn more about Role Tea and where they can get some.Mike: Yeah, yeah. So Role Tea--and that's R-O-L-E, as in, like, play your role. Role Tea is sold online, so you can see us at RoleTea.com. R-O-L-E-T-E-A dot com. We're also sold on the East Coast, primarily in stores like Wegmans as well as some independent stores in the D.C. Metro area. So yeah, check us out online, RoleTea.com. A lot of good information there. You can order right through that website. Yeah.Zach: That's what's up, man. Now, look, before we get out of here, do you have any parting thoughts or shout-outs?Mike: Yeah, I definitely want to shout-out everyone that has tried Role Tea, everyone that will try Role Tea, including you, Zach. Yeah, everyone that's worked with the brand to help get us this far, to this point, definitely appreciate the support. I definitely want to shout-out my co-founder Corey Benson. Definitely want to shout-out, you know, again, everyone that's listening to this podcast. I didn't get a chance to say this before, man, but when I first heard about this podcast and what you guys are attempting to do as far as help educate people in how to navigate, you know, the world of corporate America, I'm like, "Man, that's definitely something that's needed." Like you mentioned yourself, you're a first-generation corporate professional, right? Did I hear that right?Zach: Right.Mike: Yep, so same here. You know, first in my family to, you know, get a bachelor's degree, master's degree, corporate world and, you know, going into the corporate world I'm thinking, "Okay, I'm ready for success based on my education," but I quickly learned that most of what determines your success in that world is the things that are not taught in the classroom, right? It's the soft skills. It's the implied cultural norms that are often times a little bit different than what we grew up with, so, you know, a lot of us learn those lessons on the job as opposed to being prepared beforehand. So this podcast is doing a great service to help educate young professionals on those waters before they get into them, so kudos to you guys, and again, I'm glad to be a part of this.Zach: Man, Mike, thank you so much for the kind words. Again, the drink, Role Tea--like know your role, R-O-L-E T-E-A, and we're excited to give it a little review. So I appreciate your time. We consider you a friend of the show. Can't wait to have you back, man.Mike: Definitely appreciate it, man.Zach: Peace.Mike: Peace.Ade: And we're back. I thoroughly enjoyed that interview, Zach. I mean, I've known Mike for a little while now. He's been a great friend and supporter. Like, he's always good, not only to listen to you for advice but just listen to his experiences, and how he's been able to grow Role Tea as a brand has been very inspiring, and I'm so glad that we got so much of that in that interview.Zach: No, for sure. In our discussion, and outside of it too, we talked about--just talked about his history and talked about the challenges of building up his brand and really, like, trying and failing at some other things too, but super happy he was on the show, and hopefully we'll get some--we'll get some tea out of this. He told me he'd actually send us a couple pallets. I don't know about pallets, but he said he'd send--Ade: Word?Zach: Yeah. Not pallets, 'cause pallets sounds like--Ade: 'Cause that tea is delicious.Zach: Yeah. No, I've heard it's--I haven't had any yet, but I'm positive that once I have it I'm gonna enjoy it.Ade: Okay. Well, I am keeping an eye out, because Role Tea is amazing. Anyway, awesome. Thank you, and shout-out again to Mike Johnson and Role Tea. I'm looking forward to that tea.Zach: Salute to Mike. Okay, so Favorite Things?Ade: Favorite Things. Let's go. All right.Zach: All right, cool. So look, my favorite thing right now has to be Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Now, some of y'all are like, "Super Smash Bros.? What's that?" But let me tell you something, those who know--Pusha T voice. "If you know, you know." So look, my favorite thing right now has to be Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on my Nintendo Switch. It's super fun. I play in the evening after a long day at work, and I love it because I can just kind of pick it up. I don't have to, like, sit down in front of a big TV, boot up the game. I can just pick up my handheld, boot it up. And for those who want to know, my favorite--my main character is Chrom. So again, for those who are kind of, like, outside of this whole video game space, Super Smash Bros. is a Nintendo game, right, but it's like you can, like, pick Nintendo characters against each other to fight, right? But, like, not in a, like, super violent Mortal Kombat way. More, like, kind of, like, a cartoonish, fun way, but it's a deep, deep game, right? So you can put Mario against Sonic. You can put Princess Peach against Captain Falcon or Fox or Falco or Ganondorf versus Kirby. You can do all kinds of crazy match-ups, right? Super fun, and so it's been cool. It's a really good stress reliever. That--you know, working out sometimes, you don't want to necessarily want to get up and work out. Forgive me. I don't want to work out all the time. Sometimes I just want to kind of veg out, and it's great. It's great for that. So that's my favorite thing.Ade: Okay, self-care. I see you.Zach: That's right.Ade: So my favorite thing lately has been a book called Cracking the Coding Interview. It's been invaluable, I think. I struggle--for those of you who are just joining us, just in case this is your very first Living Corporate episode ever, I am switching careers, or I'm in the process of switching careers. I'm becoming a software engineer, and part of that process is self-teaching both foundational concepts and computer science, but also understanding algorithms, binary trees. Just how the very technical elements of software engineering, something that you are supposed to pick up in a classroom that I did not have the luxury of doing, therefore I have to teach myself. And there are also books that exist out there that kind of help you through the process of thinking through and developing strategies for coding interviews. I'm discussing it like it's a journal or something like that, [inaudible], but yeah, it's been a really important book, and I've kind of been adding more and more base computer science books and algorithm books to my library, right next to Frantz Fanon and Audre Lorde. So yeah, those are my favorite things.Zach: That's a sick combination though. That's dope.Ade: I want you to know our library in our home consists of tax law code and regulations and vegan chef--vegan cookbooks and regular cookbooks and Sister Outsider. [laughs] And computer science books and data science books.Zach: That's dope though.Ade: Oh, and [Ola had a?] self-help book. So there's no way you can walk into my home and not have something to read.Zach: You're gonna have something. You're gonna learn about something.Ade: There will be something available to edify you. I even have, like, fiction novels, everything from John Green to Grisham to Tomi Adeyemi, which, again, shout-out to her.Zach: Shout-out to her. No, straight up. She's great.Ade: I'm looking up to the next book in the series, by the way. Okay, we have veered so far off track. Did you have--Zach: Good. It's a Favorite Things segment. We're supposed to turn up. It's cool.Ade: You know what? You're right. You're right. Sir, sir. Sir. [Not turning up. Cruise?]. I'm tired. [laughs]Zach: [laughs] [Turn me up. Cruise?]Ade: Nope, I'm tired of you.Zach: Okay. No, no, no, but that's dope. So look, you know, y'all, if it wasn't evident by our kickoff episode, as well as our Supporting Black Women at Work section, the B-Side that we had as well as the full episode, we're here, man.Ade: We outchea.Zach: We're gonna have a good time this season. Make sure you keep checking us out. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to follow us on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com. Please say the dahs.Ade: The dash.Zach: If you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, just email us or hit us on DM, right? We out here. Don't forget to give us 5 stars too. Now, look, some of y'all actually been responding and gave us some stars, but not all of y'all though. That's right, I'm looking at you. That's right. We need those 5 stars, okay? Right? Am I tripping, Ade? Do we need the 5 stars or nah?Ade: We need the 5 stars.Zach: We need the 5 stars. Okay, cool. Look, y'all. That does it for us. We'll catch y'all next week. This has been Zach.Ade: And this is Ade. Free 21 Savage.Zach: Free 21 Savage. Peace.Ade: Peace.

We have the honor of speaking with battle rapper and musician Chilla Jones about his unique career journey, pursuing your dreams, navigating between the full-time and entrepreneurship space, and the difficulty of juggling your passion and your 9-5. Check out Chilla's website, IG, and Twitter!TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and yes, you're listening to another B-Side. Now, look, we talked about B-Sides in season one. This is season two of Living Corporate. For those who don't know, B-Sides are basically random episodes in-between our larger episodes where we just kind of kick it, you know? Sometimes we have conversations with just me and Ade. Sometimes they're, like, kind of extended monologues, just me or Ade. Often times though, most times, they're conversations with, like, special guests, like, one-on-one discussions, and I'ma tell you, this time--this time this one's special for me, okay? Now, y'all might not know, but I'm actually a huge--I love rap in general, right? I love rap, and I love battle rap a lot. Y'all know those air horns y'all hear in the shows, like [imitating them]? That's actually inspired by battle rap, specifically Ultimate Rap Battle League, URL, and the reason why is because battle rap, to me, it combines public speaking, retention, charisma, improvisation, crowd control, all at the same time, right? And clearly y'all can tell I enjoy talking, so it's obviously a clear intersect for me. Anyway, I was always a big follower of it as a kid, but, you know, life goes on. I kind of let it fade. Well, back when I was in college I stumbled upon a battle rapper who really got me back in the game. If you can imagine Jay-Z but as a battle rapper, that's a crude reduction of who and kind of what this style is, okay? So our guest for today's B-Side is Jerome Jones, A.K.A. Kingpin, A.K.A. Juggernaut, A.K.A. Chilla, A.K.A. Bosstown, A.K.A. your favorite writer's favorite writer, Chilla Jones. Chilla Jones is a musician and battle rapper hailing from Boston, Massachusetts, New England. He has released several projects, but you most likely know him from battle rap. He's traveled all across the world. He's making a name for himself as one of the biggest writers to ever engage the arena. Chilla, how's it going, man?Chilla: My guy. What's going on, man? Peace up. What's good? We out here, man.Zach: We out here, man. Look, man--so look, today, man, we're talking about pursuing your dreams, you know, navigating between your full-time and the entrepreneur space. What was it like for you, and like--and you working your 9-5. When did you start really being like, "Look, I need to pursue this battle rap thing. I want to pursue this music thing."? What has it been like to juggle that? What did it look like when you got started? You know, of course we see you now. You're in--you know, you've gone to London, you've been all over the world. Of course all over the U.S., but [inaudible], you know, you've been to parts in Europe. Of course you've been in Canada often. You know, what has that journey been like for you?Chilla: It's huge, bro, and, you know, back in the day--you know, I'd been, you know, doing the 9-5 thing since I was, you know, fresh out of high school, 18 years old, and so, you know, that's kind of always been a part of my adult life, but, you know, as time went on I really devoted more and more of my personal time into music or into battle rap, depending on the era, and so--it's very interesting having to juggle both because--you know, especially nowadays. I have so many opportunities that present themselves that might require me to, you know, as you said, be in Canada or be in London or, you know, I went to Australia recently, which was a really eye-opening experience, you know? I get offers to go everywhere from, you know, Ireland to New Zealand to Amsterdam to--you know, all off the strength of my talent and my ability, so, you know, I never quite thought that I would get to travel the world and, you know, kind of expand my horizons just off the strength of my God-given talent. It's definitely a blessing, but it definitely is a sacrifice, man. You know, it's definitely--when you're thinking of transitioning from that 9-5 to, you know, doing something you love full-time, or even if you're not doing it full-time, if you're deciding to kind of devote a little bit more time to it than the normal person, you're literally having to decide and juggle between, you know, kind of having that steady income or, you know, kind of--kind of diving into something where you might be eating ramen noodles for a week, you know, waiting on your next gig, you know what I'm saying? And so I've kind of--I've kind of balanced both sides of that, and so, you know, luckily I have a job that is very understanding. They're aware of my career and very supportive, so, you know, they give me all of the flexibility that I might need, whether that's--you know, I might only be at work a couple days of the month because I might be, you know, traveling so much during that particular month, you know? And they support me, and they're very supportive in that, and I'm very lucky to kind of that situation to where I can always know that if I don't have any battles or if I don't have any shows or, you know, if I don't have anything on the rap side that's helping to contribute to my income, I have a job that I can--that I can kind of rely on for that, and, you know, when I do have all of these gigs and stuff like that, I'm not--you know, I'm not having to sacrifice the 9-5 that I have, and so I kind of have a really, really good situation worked out for me right now, but it's definitely--you know, I've been in situations where my job wasn't so supportive, and so I've had to make decisions like, "Okay, I can take this offer and go to Canada for 4 days, and I don't have any more paid time off at work, and I know if I can't make these two shifts, then I might not have a job when I get back. So, you know, I've had to make those decisions and kind of try to--try to do what's best for me in the long run, and so you really just gotta believe in yourself at the end of the day. You really just have to believe that you're doing the right thing, and you gotta follow your dreams, man. There's nothing--there's nothing worse than, you know, feeling like you didn't give it your all, and that's always just kind of what I've--what I've always kind of gone by and stood by, is like I would rather, you know, go for my dreams and fail than to stay stuck at a 9-5 and just always wonder "What if?" Like, you never want to wonder--you never want to wonder "What if," you know what I mean? That's my stance.Zach: Yeah, man. Yeah, and it's funny you talk about your job. That was actually another question I had. So, like, what does it look like, right, when you--so you show up--of course for those who don't know, right, like, who haven't seen you do your thing, whatever whatever. You know, you're a black man, and you're a moderately tall person. You're a--I wouldn't say, like, you're a scary, imposing--you're not, like, you know, sloppy like Suge or nothing like that, but, you know, you're a large black man. Like, what does it look like when you articulate to people, "Hey," you know? When you talk to your employer, "Hey, I'm a battle rapper." Like, how do those conversations go, and how does that--you know, you say they're supportive. You know, what does that--what does that look like, just to kind of, like, broach the topic and then talk about your profession?Chilla: Right. I mean, honestly it was--you know, initially it was something that I--that I hid, you know? And I think a lot of us, us battle rappers, do that, you know? I hid my career from my job, and so, you know, at first I would say "Oh, I'm going out of town for this reason," or that reason, and, you know, "I need to be off. I need to leave on Friday," and, you know, "I'll be back Sunday night or Monday morning," and so I'd name this shift or that shift that I'm scheduled for, and, you know, doing that a couple of times, they really--they really don't trip, but as it--as it happens more often and more consistently, I kind of--I kind of just thought in my head, like, you know, "The only way this is going to work and work in my favor is if I'm honest," and so I actually had just got offered a promotion, and, you know, the promotion was kind of to a lofty position, and they--you know, as we were in the office and we were discussing salary and everything like that, you know, I figured that was a really good time to kind of be honest, and so--you know, I told them I was interested in the position and I would love to the job, but I have a career, and this is what I do, and this is what that looks like, and this is what I need from you if you want me to do this position for you. And so, you know, I need flexibility on your end for me to be able to do A, B, and C, and if I can do that, then when I'm here and I'm working I will give you flexibility on D, E, and F, you know what I mean? And so it's definitely a compromise there, and like I said, they are in support of it. They will even watch my battles, and they'll come to work and quote certain things that I've said, and it's so weird because it's such a--you know, the environment that I work in, you would never expect, you know, to have, you know, 40-year old, 50-year old, you know, Caucasian men and women or [inaudible] with all types of different, you know, backgrounds and, you know, all types of different, you know, places that they've grown up in and things that they're interested in. Like, you know, I don't think anybody where I work is even interested in hip hop to be for real, you know what I mean? It's other things like that, but, you know, they take an interest in it because, you know, they see that I'm good at it, that I have a talent, and they see where it takes me and where I go and how long I'm gone and the kind of money I make when I'm not there, and so it's just a--it's just a really, really beautiful situation, and so, you know, it really, really helps to have the support of your higher-ups, because they, you know, are just so understanding, and they allow you to do what you need to do, and they understand that, although it is a priority, you know, it's just a means to an end, you know what I mean? So that was a--that was a big turning point for me in my career, to have their support and to have their kind of--you know, them behind me in terms of me being able to go after what I'm trying to go after.Zach: Well, I would imagine, man, it's also, like, a weight off your back, right? Because it's one less thing you gotta worry about, right? The more transparently you can move while you do--while you pursue your passions, the more energy you're gonna have for your passions, right? So, like, I would imagine you just being able to just kind of be more of yourself and bring more of yourself frankly to work. Not that you're gonna be scheming on your boss, but you can just kind of--you know, you can be yourself and let people know what you're about. When you leave, you say, "Hey, I gotta go." Like you said, you're not having to kind of create stories and excuses and narratives and things of that nature. So, you know, you talked about--you talked about the travel and the doors that battle rap and your really--again, just kind of beyond just battle rap, your music has opened for you. Would you mind talking a little bit about Drop the Mic? I'm not asking you to share any secret sauce or anything like that, but kind of talk to us about how that opportunity happened. And for those who don't know, y'all, Drop the Mic--when y'all see, like, these celebrities and they're, like, rapping against each other, that's a TV show called Drop the Mic, right? And Chilla Jones is involved in that. So yeah, you go ahead, man.Chilla: Yeah. You know, so the opportunity first presented itself through another battler named Rome, and so Rome at one point was one of the contributing head writers on the show, in the very first season, and so, you know, he had a little leverage and a little leeway to kind of be able to--you know, he and the executive producer by the name of Jensen Karp. You know, Jensen was formally a battle rapper in the California, Los Angeles, scene. And so, you know, he is a big battle rap fan. You know, he knows, like, you know, the sources and the [inaudible] and a lot of those people from back in the day, the early [inaudible]. WRCs, [inaudible], in that kind of era. So, you know, it was very important for Jensen to incorporate some of the new age, you know, battle rappers into the show in terms of having them contribute by, you know, either assisting in the writing process or in coaching some of the celebrities to, you know, make sure when they go on stage they sound as good as possible. And so during that very first season, you know, they both reached out to me in regards to helping and contributing on the show, and, you know, obviously my kind of reputation as, you know, the Kingpin or, you know, one of the greatest writers in battle rap, it kind of seems like a no-brainer to have me involved in that process. And so, you know, they reached out to me. I went out to Hollywood. I was able to work with, you know, Wayne Brady, Jake Owen, Boyz II Men, Rascal Flatts. A bunch of different--a bunch of different people who were all really dope, humble, down-to-earth celebrities, and, you know, I got a chance to work with them and, you know, help them construct their lines and teach them the best ways to rap it or flow it over the beat, and man, I've been on every season since, you know what I mean? And so it's a very dope process. I've got a chance to meet and network with a lot of dope people. I love the concept of the show. I think it's a genius show. Salute to Method Man as well, who had a big hand in bringing me on as well. Method co-hosted my battle with Daylyt in 2014. He's been a big fan as well as a mentor ever since. He always keeps in touch and, you know, he also was somebody who cosigned bringing me on the show as well. So it's just been a really humbling experience, man. That's just one of the many things that battle rap has done for me and has allowed me to do, and it's just--it's really humbling, you know? I never thought that battle rap would lead to so many different avenues, you know, that could [inaudible], you know what I mean? It's just--it's really been a humbling and a wonderful thing.Zach: You know, and speaking of that battle, when you hit that blue meth line in that battle against Daylyt, I saw Method's face in the background and I was like, "Oh, I bet they're gonna be cool after this." Like, that was one of my favorite battles also. Yeah, so let's keep it going. So I'm curious, man, and I don't want to get you in trouble, and this is not a battle rap podcast, but you know I'm a battle rap fan. Let me ask you this. If you had to look at--if you look at the battle rap scene today, who are--out of the new guard, right, who out there is in your atmosphere, right? So are you looking at Loso? Twork? A-Ward? Like, who out there this year are you like, "Yo, you gotta face these bars."? Like, who out there is on your list?Chilla: As far as, you know, people I want to see in the near future, A. Ward for sure is in there. I would love to battle Nitty. I would like to battle Loso, but you know what's funny? Me and Loso, as well as me and A. Ward, we're actually al pretty close, you know what I mean? They're both two guys that are humble. They're smart, they're talented, and, you know, I kind of make it a habit when I come across certain people to reach out and just be like, "Yo, if you need something, if there's anything I can do," you know, any advice I can give you. You know, I always extend myself to the new guard to let them know that, you know, I'm here as a support--as a veteran, as a support system. You know, if there's anything you need, like, you know, I'm here for that, and those are two guys that have both definitely taken advantage of that, but the funny thing is I still want to destroy A. Ward, you know what I mean? Like, me and A. Ward are so competitive that, you know, that battle is still gonna happen, and, you know, it's still gonna be an amazing battle, but on the flip side it's--like, I don't know that I can see myself battling Loso, and it's not even that I'm closer with Loso, but me and Loso just have a different type of--a different type of relationship. I'm not saying it could never happen, but I guess I'm just saying that I'm more anxious and eager to battle A-Ward. But A-Ward, Nitty for sure, Ave--I'm really close to Ave too. I think Ave is amazing. Ave is also on my list. I would love to battle him. I think it would be a really good battle.Zach: That'd be a great battle. Now, you skimmed over Twork. Was that on purpose? Are you--Chilla: Those are the names that come to mind. I think Twork's dope, and I would battle Twork as well, but I don't know. Zach: All right, bet. Bet, bet. So, you know, it's interesting because--so to your point about the people that you named, right, I definitely think--so when I look at, like, that four horsemen group--so of course, you know, you and I have had conversations before, like, when you and Saga battled and you was kind of clowning him about the thing, and I was like, "Aye," you know? Whatever whatever, but out of the four horsemen I actually think A. Ward has all of the elements--like, his pen to me is the most aggressive and impressive in terms of the fact that he can do--he kind of does everything really well, right? Like he has the--he always has a crazy scheme in the second round. He starts off with some nice personals. He wraps it up at the end with, like, a Christian gospel presentation at the end, which of course I find is dope. I'm biased in that way. [laughs] And then of course you got Nitty, who I just think--I really think, man, he's up there, man. Like, I think he would--I really think--so A. Ward would be an entertaining battle, you know? Loso would be cool. I think that Nitty, like, honestly, man, would give you, like--I think Nitty would give you your best challenge though, I do.Chilla: Oh, for sure. No, I agree. I think Nitty--right now, you know, my honest opinion is that me, Nitty, and JC are kind of the three best pens.Zach: I agree with that.Chilla: And so, you know, obviously me and JC have already gone to war and so have JC and Nitty, and so yeah. I agree with you 1000%. If we're talking bar for bar, if we're talking pen for pen, yeah, nobody's gonna give me a tougher match than probably Nitty and, you know, maybe Twork, you know what I mean? If that ever happens.Zach: Yeah, if it happens, if he--you know what I'm saying, if he comes ready and all that stuff, you know, all those various elements, I think--I think what's scary about Nitty is I don't think we've--I think he's had a couple of stumbles, but when you talk about consistency, man, like, he's up there. Like, him, when you talk about--let's take, like, a kind of, like, pivot for a second. So when you talk about consistent battle rappers, it's like, what, him--A. Ward's pretty consistent, but him, DNA, Danny Myers. Like, them cats are, like, very, very consistent, man. You ain't gotta really worry about if he's gonna come at you--not even if he's gonna get his bars out. So being that you never have to worry about him getting his bars out, but sometimes you're like, "Eh, these bars are kind of [inaudible]," but then, like, Nitty it's like--not only do you not have to worry about him getting his bars out, them bars gonna be crazy when they come out, right? And so, you know, it's just--I'm really curious, man. I'm trying to see what's going on, you know? Of course we're all--I follow the news and stuff, and I'm hearing about, you know, people that you might be battling, but I'm really excited to see some of 'em, and I think 2019 is gonna be a crazy year. You've been on top for a while, you know? And you talked just a second about, you know, being a mentor. You know, what--and you say, you know, you offer your services and your time. You know, what are things that you wish folks would have helped you with as you kind of got into it? Like, after you whooped Interstate Flames, and after you beat Gatman Jones, and then after you beat M. Ciddy, and then you beat Cash Eatin. And, like, at what point--at what point was it like, "Okay, can somebody help me?" Like, did anyone kind of help pull you aside and kind of pour into you, or did you kind of have to find out things the hard way? Chilla: For the most part, man, I had to find out things the hard way, you know what I mean? Like, I didn't really--being that, you know, A. I was from Boston, and, you know, there was kind of nobody before me from Boston, and so I--you know I didn't have a path to follow. I had to create one, and, you know, there was kind of nobody that I could reach out to or anything like that. So I'll tell you for the most part I had to kind of learn everything, but I can tell you back in those days, you know, there were some people that helped, you know? Mickey Factz was a big mentor for me, you know, in terms of helping me make certain career decisions, and a great person to spar with, and he's a very, very tough critic as far as you let him kind of hear your material. Stuff that you might think is amazing he might hear and be like, "Eh, you can do better," you know what I mean? And so he was a really, really important part of the elevation of my pen and the, you know, versatility that I began to show over time, but I do wish I had more of that on the battle rap side, you know, from somebody who actually battled back then, because at that time Mickey hadn't really jumped in the ring yet. He was still just, you know, an underground artist that everybody kind of knew about and followed the culture, but I didn't have anybody within, you know, as a battle rapper within the culture really take me under their wing or anything like that, and, you know, leading into the DNA battle and even after the DNA battle, I feel like that's something that that would've been the time where I would've needed it the most, you know what I mean? And I kind of didn't have that, and so that's part of the reason why I extend myself, especially to certain people. Like, when I look at Loso I'm like, "Man, you don't--there's nobody else that I know of from Tampa that's, you know, making as much noise as you are as far as battle rap, and so you probably don't have that person." I mean obviously he has John John, 'cause he came up through BullPen. So I know he definitely has some people in his corner, you know, and it's kind of the same thing with A. Ward. He's from Missouri, so obviously there's the Hitmans, the Verbs, but he's also from Kansas City. He's not from St. Louis.Zach: Right, it's different spaces.Chilla: Exactly, way different spaces, and so, you know for a lot of those guys that I know are coming from maybe some towns or some markets where, you know, they're kind of creating a path for their town or their city, I like to kind of extend myself and say, "Yo, if you ever need anything, if you need to run your bars by someone, if you have any career questions about what battles you should take or anything like that, you know, inside and outside of battle rap, man. Just, you know, in life in general, man. Just know that I'm a resource here for you that you can use whenever necessary." And so, you know, at the end of the day I just--I see it every day, and I think we all see it as black men. We see talent go by the wayside a lot of times, whether that's, you know, people falling victim to the streets or jail or whatever the case, and then, you know, even within battle rap there's a lot--there's a lot of people with extreme talent that we see don't live up to their potential.Zach: So look, man. Let's talk about it. You're absolutely right. Then to your point though around just people in your circle, making sure they're holding you accountable and being like, "Hey, you know that bar wasn't really that great." You know, you can kind of tell if you're a fan and you're listening to the--you're watching these battles, like, who had someone who they sparred with who told them the truth, and then who had maybe just a bunch of yes men or they rushed it and wrote it at the last minute? They didn't really have anyone holding them accountable, and I think--you know, I think in any realm, in corporate, creative, music, whatever the space is, you need someone who's gonna kind of keep it 100 with you, otherwise you walk out here talking about that Surf/Twork battle when he said, "Think witch's parking lot - all brooms." I was like, "What does that mean, sir?" Like, what does that--what does that mean? Like, what are you saying, right? You know? And there's plenty of people we can name. This is not a--it's not no disrespect to nobody, but it's just--like, there's value in that mentorship, and to your point, right, as black men, like, it's obvious when you see talent go by the wayside in a variety of spaces for a variety of reasons, and when you--and it hurts because you can see the potential. You're like, "Man, I know you want it. I know you want to do better than this. I know that you don't want to be rapping like this," right? "I know that you don't want to be performing like this. I know that you want to be the best you can be," and what sucks about battle rap is that it's on such a public stage, right? So it's like you can't--you don't have the luxury of failing in moderate privacy. Like, you're failing in front of, like, potentially hundreds of thousands of people online, right? Well, look--go ahead. No, keep going.Chilla: No, I was gonna say it's--you know, that was what I learned with, you know, the DNA battle and, you know, I mean, even though I feel like I won that battle, I feel like it was [inaudible].Zach: It was a--it was a body bag, but yeah. [inaudible].Chilla: Yeah, but there was a lot to be learned, because that was--you know, I went from battling in front of 400-500 people to battling in front of 3,000 people. I went from getting, you know, 200,000-300,000 views on my battles to 700,000-800,000 views. Like, that was a huge step up for me in terms of name and tier and everything like that, and so coming into the--coming into the sport, you know, the DNA battle was maybe my sixth battle ever, and so it's different--it's different when you look at other people, like, say, John John Da Don. John John Da Don had maybe 12 battles on Grind Time before he even walked onto URL, and so he was able to take that experience with him to a new league and kind of dominate, because he had already kind of worked out the flaws in his style. He had already figured out the best way to memorize his bars. He had mastered performing in front of certain groups of people. And so for me, I had to learn in front of the world, and so it was--it was such a big, different--it was such a different environment for me than for a lot of the other people that we look at as stars today, because they had--they had the opportunity to groom themselves in their leagues and have between 10 and 20 battles before they went to URL. I had the two battles that you had talked about earlier on this podcast, which was the Gatman Jones and the Interstate Flamez. Those were the only two battles I had in this format before I stepped foot on the biggest league in the world. So imagine--so, like, imagine LeBron playing two high school games before he gets called up to the NBA, you know what I mean?Zach: It was a crazy jump, man, because you went from--yeah, you did. So you went Gatman, Interstate, and they were crazy body bags, so then--so the buzz got quick, right? Your stock went crazy up, then you went--correct me if I'm wrong. Was it Cash Eatin then M. Ciddy then JC?Chilla: Yeah.Zach: Yeah. So it was Cash Eatin, bodied. M. Ciddy--you know, at the time classic, whatever whatever, then JC of course a certified classic. Then from there--in that room, how big--how many people were in that room with you and JC? Like, 500? Like, how many people?Chilla: Me and JC was probably like 250, 300. It was a really small room, intimate space.Zach: Small room, yeah.Chilla: Small room, intimate space, but the energy in that room, man, I'll never forget it. Such an amazing energy.Zach: Crazy energy in that room. So you go from a small--and again, a small room battle where everybody's gonna feel the bars more, whatever whatever, to this, like--and admittedly, 'cause I came from--when I was watching battle rap as a kid, Chilla, I was watching it, like, with--you know, of course everybody, every millennial who watches battle rap knows the Serius Jones/Murda Mook battle. So, like, that was the kind of vibe I was used to, [Jin's battles?]. Like, those were the types of the spaces, and so I was even kind of taken aback when I was watching you rap, and I was like, "Dang, okay. This is crazy. This stage is really big." Like, "This is completely different." You got Kevin Durant in the background. You got a huge--it's like an auditorium, right? It's a theater. And so yeah, it's crazy, man. It was a crazy jump, man, but it's interesting, and, you know, I'm trying to take my fanboy hat off, 'cause part of me is like--1. it's great that you chose to learn and grow from that. I've seen--I could see another angle of--and I've seen this in other battle rappers that we don't have to namedrop, right?--where it's like you can be stubborn and be like, "Nah, I was just ahead of my time. Y'all weren't ready at the time. If I was to do that now it would be crazy, and I'm not gonna change," right? But you made a decision to start doing other things, right, what you kind of highlighted in that Prep battle when you talked about you got--you got angles, personals, you know, you have all these different weapons now, and you grew from that. Man, this has been a great conversation. I'm curious, you know, you have a ton of bars, right? Like, you have a ton of schemes, battles, people that you've battled. You know, if you had to say, like, one of your favorite punches, your favorite schemes, you know, what--do you have one that you kind of, like, think about often? If so, would you mind kind of, like, breaking it down?Chilla: Let me think. I mean, recent memory... there's a couple. So there's one in my battle versus Iron Solomon, and it's in the first round, and it's a Celtics scheme. And so it says something--it's something along the lines of--so first I'll do the scheme, and then I'll break it down. So it goes, "My fans strong in the building, of course I'ma sell tics so save the hatin'. You think it's Rozier on this side, but be Smart before you make a statement, 'cause Brown-nosing will only cause more issues. Say the wrong thing and Ks is wavin', that Larkin sparkin'. You'll be taking more shots in Boston than Jayson Tatum." Right, and so it actually starts before that, but I'll get into that in a second. And so how I introduce the scheme is I say something like, "I'm hands on. You came for God, and hey, word. I told him "break a leg" from the jump, just hope his punches don't land wrong. My fans strong in the building." So you came for "God, and hey, word," so that's Gordon Hayward. "I told him "break a leg" from the jump, just hope your punches don't land wrong." So that's about his injury last year when he--you know, he broke a leg when he jumped and he landed wrong. And so then it goes into "My fans strong in this building. Of course I'ma sell tics, so save the hatin'." Sell tics, Celtics. "You think it's Rozier on this side, but be Smart before you make a statement." So that's "you think it's Rozier," Terry Rozier, on this side. "Well, be Smart," Marcus Smart, before you make a statement, 'cause Brown-nosing will only cause more issues. Jaylen Brown. Brown-nosing will only cause more issues. Marcus Morris. "Say the wrong thing and Ks is wavin', that Larkin sparkin'." So back then we had a backup point guard named Shane Larkin. "That Larkin sparkin'. You'll be taking more shots in Boston than Jayson Tatum." So it's like, Gordon Hayward, Terry Rozier, Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Morris, Shane Larkin, Jayson Tatum. So it's, like, seven or eight Celtics players in that Celtics scheme. So for personal reasons, battling a legend like Iron Solomon in Boston--and I don't get very many battles in Boston nowadays--to be able to do a Boston Celtics scheme while they were in the middle of a crazy playoff run without Kyrie Irving was really, really dope to me. The other scheme that comes to mind [inaudible] that I really like was a scheme I did versus Gjonaj. It was the Super Mario scheme.Zach: Oh, yes, yes.Chilla: Let me see if I remember this one off the top of my head. I wish I could also remember what he said, because he had a line about Super Mario in his third round, but I kind of rebuttaled it with lines of Super Mario 3. "I'm making moves behind the scenes. Who's whistleblowing?" Zach: Oh, I remember that, yeah.Chilla: Yeah, which if you're a Mario fan that's dope. Super Mario 3, you can run behind the level, behind the background, and when you blow the whistle you warp to a different--to a different world. And so in response I said, "I needed talks like this when I got in the game. This is a lot like--" I said, "You're right, this is a lot like Super Mario. I know, I first thought it was strange, but they battle rap 'cause a good job is not in their range, and they don't want to jump up to hit the block for change. Haters will try to put your face on a bullet if they the jealous type. The best advice: she ain't your princess 'cause she let you pipe. Your boo gonna make moves behind your back, having sex at night, 'cause if y'all split, having 1-up on you will give her extra life."Zach: Oh, my God.Chilla: "But the most important thing, love from the fans ain't unconditional. When there's much room for growth, they campaign and they stay with you, but when you get bigger, they'll do anything to belittle you. But win or lose, star power makes you invincible." So the whole scheme is--the whole scheme is, like, all Mario'd out. So "Jump up and hit the block for some change." Obviously if you've played Mario, you jump up, you hit the blocks, the coins come out. "Haters will try to put your face on a bullet." So there are bullets in Mario that have faces on them that fly at you. "The best advice: she ain't your princess 'cause she lets you pipe," so Princess Peach, and obviously in Mario you go down the pipes into the different levels and warp zones and things like that. "Your boo gonna make moves behind your back, having sex at night." So Boo is the name of the ghost that if you run toward it it stays still, and if you turn your back to it it flies towards you to get you. So "Your boo gonna make moves behind your back, having sex at night, 'cause if y'all split, having 1-up on you will give her extra life." So 1-up is the green mushroom that gives you an extra life. "And the most important thing, love from the fans ain't unconditional. When there's much room for growth, they campaign and they stick with you." So when you're an up-and-comer and you're learning and developing, everybody's on your team, but then also in the Mario sense, when you get a mushroom you grow. "When there's much room for growth, they campaign and they stick with you, but when you get bigger they'd do anything to belittle you." So whether it's on Mario when you get hit with a shell or a fireball or a plant or something happens, you get smaller. They'd do anything to belittle you. "But win or lose, star power makes you invincible." When you get the star, nothing can kill you. So the whole--that whole scheme is--yeah, it's just, like, 8, 12 bars of just Mario references, but also relating it to him. Kind of funny it ties into what we were talking about earlier, but it's like I'm almost mentoring him. I'm telling him--you know, the whole thing is me saying, you know, "We battle rap because some of us can't get a good job for whatever reason," so we battle rap because we don't want to go to the streets. We don't want to jump up and hit the block for some change. "Haters will try to put your face on a bullet if they're the jealous type." People will try to kill you for your fame. "The best advice: she ain't your princess 'cause she lets you pipe." Just because she sees you're famous and has sex with you doesn't mean she's really down for you. "Your boo gonna make moves behind your back, having sex at night, 'cause if y'all split, having 1-up on you will give her extra life." She's gonna do you dirty because in the end, if you guys end up breaking up, she wants to feel like she has something on you. "And the most important thing, love from the fans ain't unconditional. When there's much room for growth, they campaign and they stick with you." They love you as an up-and-comer. "When you get bigger, they'd do anything to belittle you." When you hit a certain tier and you stop being the underdog, all fans want to do is see you lose. "But win or lose, star power makes you invincible." So whether or not you're winning or losing battles, if you have that charisma, if you have that star power, you'll continue to grow and [inaudible]. So I was, like, totally mentoring him, but at the same time breaking him down using Mario references. So that's probably one of my favorite schemes ever, but that's from the battle I did with Gjonaj. I want to say this was 2017--Zach: Was it 2016?Chilla: I don't know if it was 2016 or 2017. I want to say it was 2017 to be honest, but--Zach: Oh, right. It just hit 2019. You're right. It was 2017, man. Yeah.Chilla: It was 2017, yeah. So it'll be 2 years in April that that battle came out--that that battle happened, I'm sorry. But yeah, that's easily--especially because he had the Mario line in the third round and this kind of came after it. Easily one of my favorite schemes that I've ever done. Like, the way it's put together, I just think it's so good. So good.Zach: Nah, man. It was phenomenal. I remember that battle, and it was--so my homeboy E. Mike--I'm actually gonna drop his name--we were watching it at his apartment, and man, he heard that, and he had--I think he had his phone, and he threw his phone across the spot. Like, he was shocked. It was so funny. I was like, "That is crazy." See, I thought you were gonna say--first of all though of course, phenomenal choice. Like, how can I critique you on the choices? I asked a question and you gave me your favorite schemes. I thought that you were gonna talk about that third round scheme against JC when you said, "We handle MACs well, so whatever I'm aiming will leave your baby face on that black street." Chilla: Oh, the R&B scheme. Zach: Yes, that was crazy.Chilla: I mean, yeah. I mean, there's so many schemes that I can reference. I mean, obviously that's a really good one. The music instrument scheme in that same battle, the car parts scheme in that same battle. M. Ciddy I had the Out of This World scheme, which was like--there's so many schemes that I could mention. I tried to pick something that was fairly recent.Zach: And they were clean too.Chilla: Yeah, but there's so many, like--man, I probably have 25 to 30 schemes that I could have picked, you know, that I really, really like. Like, I have a--especially over time, man, I've--my standards for schemes have gone up because A. because I have a reputation for them, but also B. because people do them so much that, you know, I have to separate myself. So it would be different if I was the only person doing it. You know, my standards wouldn't have to be so high, but the fact that every battler tries to scheme at some point in their career and at some point in most of their battles, like, I have to--I have to have a--I have to be at a level that shows a clear difference of, like, "That's why they say he's the best at scheming. He's way better than everybody else." And so I try to put it together in a way that gives people that impression.Zach: Well, you know, what I'm excited about, and I'm just happy that you were able to join the podcast, because, you know, we--the type of people we try to interview, right--so we try to interview corporate professionals, social influencers, and then creatives, right? Non-white in all those different spaces, and I think, you know, your space is unique because, you know, there are just very few people who can do what you do, and it's exciting because I feel as if on our podcast, the guests that we have, they all have, like, really unique talents, skill sets, experiences, perspectives. So as I let you go, and before I do that rather, what, if any, projects do you want to shout out? Do you have anything you want to plug? Anything you want to talk about? Any parting words? Anything going on at all?Chilla: So shout-outs, first and foremost King of the Dot Championship, London, England, March 3rd. Make sure you guys tune in. It's Chilla Jones versus Head Ice for the King of the Dot Championship. If you're not into battle rap, if you don't follow battle rap, this is a really good event for you to get started. You can get a pay-per-view and watch it live on your computer, your mobile phone, your Xbox, your PlayStation, your Amazon Fire Stick, your smart TV. However you want to do it. Definitely get involved with the culture. See what we're about. See what I am about. Also I want to give a big shout-out to my bro. Me and my brother have a big project coming out in 2019 musically. I haven't put out a music project since 2014. I'm super, super excited about it. A lot of big features. I got Method Man on there. I got a couple other people on there. Man, I'm so happy with this project. I can't wait to start letting you guys hear it. We're planning on releasing the first single with the Head Ice battle, as that drops on King of the Dot's YouTube channel at the end of March, so be on the lookout for that as well. Otherwise you can follow me on Twitter @ChillaJones. Follow me on Instagram, @ChillaJones as well, or tune into the website, www.ChillaJones.com. I got all types of Kingpin merchandise. You can see all of my battles there. You can read my bio. You can check out my last music project. Anything Chilla Jones-related, I promise you can find it on www.ChillaJones.com.Zach: Man, first of all, again, I'm just--I'm shocked that we were able to get you on the show. We've been scheming trying to--no pun intended--trying to get you on here. We've been plotting this for some months. Chilla: Yeah, for a while, man. I'm happy to be here. Happy to do it for sure.Zach: Yeah, man. Well, look, man, thank y'all for joining the Living Corporate podcast. Of course you can check us out everywhere on living-corporate.com. Please say the dash. We're also at livingcorporate.co, livingcorporate.tv. Just know livingcorporate.com, we told y'all this before, Australia owns livingcorporate.com. I don't know what's going on. They've got, like, some type of apartment selling website over there, so we can't get that domain, but we have every other domain. Like, it's crazy. You can also follow us on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod. This has been Zach. You have been listening to Chilla Jones, A.K.A. Juggernaut, A.K.A. Kingpin, A.K.A. Martin Luther Kingpin, A.K.A. Bosstown.Chilla: Yes, sir.Zach: Peace.

Try having your molar ripped out of your head, super swolen lips, DSL's, Steve can't do that this week, it started to turn grey, they rub it on your gums, look at how big that root is, Mike has a real bad gag reflex, Mike can't eat anything hard, this whole week is a wash, congratulations—you have pools of blood in your stomach, pry it out with a crow bar, your old red boy, two giant baja's, garbage upon garbage, the good old day, swap seats, Noah's mom stained it, you've got to sling it from the left to the right, it's supposed to be funny, who is more on top of things, Mike becomes a dad, kick them in the shins, already disappointed, preschool fight club, they'd be getting away with this today, Mike—I'm thirsty, Mike will read anything, I would not want to do that on mushrooms With Noah, Stephen, and Mike. All music by Jake Simons Special thanks to Merlin Mann (http://www.merlinmann.com/)

Sex Crimes Kids  Bauer Crider & Parry Podcast Brad: Alright, you are listening to the FloridaDefense.com Podcast. We are speaking to St Petersburg Sexual Battery Defense Lawyer Mike Kenny at the Bauer Crider & Parry Law Firm. Mike, how are you? Mike: I'm very well. How are you doing? B: I'm doing well. Today we're going to be talking about sex crimes versus kids but I want to just kind of throw out there I know you guys have multiple offices. You kind of cover a wide area there in the Tampa, the greater Tampa area. Could you mention kind of, well first of all, let's talk about the offices that you have and then some of the other areas that you target. M: Well, we have an office in Hillsborough County, and that office is actually right across the street from the courthouse on Twiggs Street in Tampa. So that office is kind of designed for our Tampa clients and our Tampa type cases which covers anything from Plant City, Wesley Chapel, New Tampa, obviously the entire Tampa area. We have an office in Clearwater, and that's kind of more of our Pinellas County office and obviously it's gonna cover all of your cases throughout Pinellas County which will be Clearwater, Clearwater Beach, St Petersburg, St Pete Beach, Largo, Tarpon Springs, you've got Pinellas Park, Kenneth City, obviously Pinellas County is a large area and we definitely cover a lot of cases throughout the county there. We have two offices in Pasco County. We have one in Port Richey and one in Trinity Florida. Obviously our Pasco County reach covers New Port Richey, Dade City, Port Richey, Holiday. The Port Richey office also covers Brooksville cases which I tend to handle on a repeat basis and the main area in Hernando County that I cover is going to be Brooksville and obviously then we have our Trinity office. Our Trinity office also covers, because we do a lot of work in Pasco County, covers the same places in Pasco County, New Port Richey, Port Richey, Holiday, Dade City, Hudson. B: Great. So you guys are pretty much all over the place in the Tampa area with four different offices to choose from.  M: Sure.  B: Well, let's - Mike, let's go ahead and jump in. Let's talk a little bit about sex crimes versus kids or versus a child and I'll just kind of if you can kind of just give us an overview of that. M: Alright, well, so there's two types of sex crimes, or two categories of sex crimes involving children. And there's actually, now that I think about it there might actually be even three if you want to kind of divide it up even further. But the sex crimes are initially the battery - whether or not there's a sexual battery. Battery, as I talked about in a previous podcast talks about essentially penetration. That's what you're looking for. Sexual battery is defined as oral, anal, or vaginal penetration by or union with the sexual organ of another or the anal or vaginal penetration of another by any other object. So that's kind of what you look for if you're talking about was it a sexual battery or not? And there's other types of crimes and crimes that don't involve penetration but involve touching - that's where you get the term molestation.  3:46 (skipped per Brad's request) 3:54 But those types of crimes are crimes that don't involve any type of sexual battery, whether it be penetration of the mouth with a sexual organ or the penis or vagina. So in that set of circumstances, you've got that category and then the next category is the age. Obviously, as we talked about before, the age of consent for sexual activity in Florida, generally speaking, is 16 years old. So the key age that we look for in a sexual battery case is the victim has to be 15 or younger. So if the victim is under the age of 15, that becomes a crime if there is either a molestation or there is a penetration, sexual battery type situation. So if you have a scenario where there has been alleged sexual activity like actual intercourse between someone over the age of 15 - and that could be 16, 17, 18, whatever, you don't even have to be an adult, but someone over the age of 15 having sexual intercourse with a 15 year old, that is a lewd or lascivious battery. And that's a specific crime that addresses sex of a person younger than 16 - basically 15 and older than 12 - it's a lewd or lascivious battery. If a person, this is the next category that I was going to talk to you about - this third unique category. If a person who is a victim of a sexual battery is under the age of 12, that in Florida is defined as a Capital Sexual Battery. Years and years and years ago that crime was punishable by death. Now it is obviously punishable by life in prison without parole. So if a person is convicted of a sexual battery, there is no other option for that person other than a life in prison type sentence. So the age matters very much because it completely changes the term of years a person might be facing and the severity of sentence the person might be facing. If a person's under 12 and it's sexual intercourse, it's gonna be a life imprisonment sentence if they get convicted. If a person's under 15, it's gonna be much less significant, it's not even gonna be a life sentence at all. The next question or category of concern is the molestation type charges. A lewd or lascivious molestation can happen above or under the clothing so situations where a person is fondled over their shirt, for instance, that can qualify as a lewd or lascivious molestation.  B: Mike, can I jump in real quick there. That is similar to - you said that you don't necessarily have indecent exposure there in Florida, but that's kind of what that's referring to, is that correct? M: No, that's another unique, it's not really a crime where there's contact with another person, but in Florida, obviously everyone can imagine there's crimes that involve people exposing themselves to other folks. In Florida that's called a lewd or lascivious exhibition. A lewd or lascivious exhibition, the key phrase there is lewd or lascivious, that the person is exposing him or herself in a lewd or lascivious manner, which means of a sexually oriented nature. For instance, give you an idea, a guy who's driving on a long trip and had a lot to drink beverage wise and needs to get out of the car and use the facilities of the forest, that person is not committing a lewd or lascivious exhibition if he gets caught by police urinating on the side of the road. Now, there is another crime for that. That's generally speaking a disorderly conduct type crime, but there's also a crime called exposure of sexual organs. That's a misdemeanor and it's not a sex related crime per say, you don't have a sexual registration requirement or anything like that, but exposure of sexual organs comes up when a person's (obviously sexual organs being a penis or a vagina) are exposed and there's nothing about the act in and of itself that shows it's of a sexually motivated manner. There isn't any talk about sex, there isn't any fondling. There isn't anything that would indicate other than the person is exposed. So that's a misdemeanor. But if a person exposes himself and exposes himself to a person under the age of 16, that's when you start to get into the lewd or lascivious exhibition problem. That's when you get to the felony aspect of it. It has to be both an exposure and it has to be an exposure in front of a person under the age of 16, you need a witness to it who is under the age of 16, and it has to be again, of a lewd or lascivious manner. So it's got to be something that is sexually oriented and I'm sure we don't need to go over every single scenario where that could be, but some unique cases have come up where there have been cases that have been litigated and actually gone up to appellate courts where a person fought a lewd or lascivious exhibition conviction because he or she answered the door and he happened to be naked from the waist down and there happened to be some children who were at the door. Some discussion about those cases talked about how he might have been in his own home but he clearly knew that there was children coming to the door to sell something. Sell raffle tickets, girl scout cookies, and even talked about whether or not there was - the sexual organ itself was flaccid or not. So there's a lot of things that the court looks to to describe the intentional exposure of a sexual organ designed to be in a lewd and lascivious manner.  B: Alright, one thing we didn't talk about is child pornography, which is obviously a sex crime versus a kid, right? Might be a whole another podcast, but is there anything that you want to touch on that? M: Well, the and we kind of had a podcast before talking about computer crimes, but the issue of possession of child pornography that the basic idea behind it is the person either has an image either on paper - tangible like he can hold it - or he or she has it in his computer and they're images of children. And they're not photographs of baby pictures, right? I'm sure everybody has a baby picture somewhere of his or her own child. But these are photographs that have the children in a sexually provocative manner. It's not just a naked child, but it's a child in a sexually oriented fashion. A lot of these images that get caught and punished are horrible images of children involved in sexual activity with other children or even adults. So it's not something where someone can get in trouble just for having a naked picture, because that's not necessarily pornography. Pornography has to have a sexual element attached to it. The sex crimes that we were talking about where we have the under 12 which is a life felony if it's a sexual battery. If it's not a sexual battery but a molestation, which is a hand touching the chest or the buttocks or the sexual organ of the other person, those are molestation type cases. And if the person is under 12 in that case, but it's not a sexual battery, it's still a life type felony. When I say a life type felony, those cases are punishable by 25 years to life. So the idea here, is the legislature is very hard on sex crimes to begin with and the laws are very strict, but they are even more severe when the children become of such a young age that we're talking 10 or 11 years old - anything under 12. As a prosecutor, I prosecuted tons of capital sexual battery cases. I went to trial on several and those folks who got convicted are still sitting in prison and they're going to spend the rest of their lives in prison. So the penalty is severe. That's why, if you find yourself accused of something this horrific, the first thing you're gonna want to do is make sure you find yourself a lawyer who you trust and a lawyer who you believe has got the ability to defend you. Because the cost is great.        B: Alright, anything else on that Mike?  M: No Sir, I think that covers it. B: You've been listening to the FloridaDefense.com Podcast. We've been speaking to St Petersburg Criminal Defense Attorney Mike Kenny at the Bauer Crider & Parry Law Firm. We will see you on the next podcast.

Rape Charges Bauer Crider & Parry Podcast Brad: Alright, you are listening to the FloridaDefense.com podcast. We are speaking to Clearwater Rape Defense Attorney, Mike Kenny. Mike, how are you? Mike: I'm doing well, how are you? B: Good good. Today, we're going to be talking about rape charges. I kind of set you up for that one so let's talk about M: Yeah, I just want to correct you real quick. In the State of Florida, we don't have a crime called rape. Now that isn't to say that rape as people understand it isn't prosecuted, it's just that we call it in the State of Florida, sexual battery. Rape is a term that doesn't exist anywhere really in the Statute. And a sexual battery is a crime that's defined as it basically talks about nonconsensual sex. Sexual battery talks about the either penetration of the sexual organ by either a penis, union with a sexual organ with a mouth to either the vagina or the penis, penetration of the anus - it gets pretty specific because sexual battery is actually involves a sexual organ. It can't be kissing. It can't be groping. But it's actually penetration or mouth in union with the sexual organ.  B: One thing you'd mentioned in the last podcast - the overview - was just the difference in if somebody was injured by sexual battery in the sentencing, correct? M: Yes, it's a in that particular section of the Sexual Battery Statute it says that a person 18 years of age or older who commits a sexual battery upon a person 12 years of age and injures a sexual organ on that person, commits a capital felony. Now a capital felony it's a long time ago Florida had certain crimes that were capital felonies obviously capital means the charge is where the sentence is they take your life. Capital punishment for instance. It's not longer a crime where someone loses their life if they're convicted and sentenced but capital felony now for these types of sex crimes is a life felony.  B: A life in prison? M: Yes, and there's no parole, no option for parole, no probation, it is for the rest of the person's natural life they will spend in prison if they are convicted and sentenced of that charge.  B: As a Criminal Defense Attorney, what are some of the signs that you look for in consent is really the biggest thing here, correct? M: Sure, on these types of charges, consent is the issues, because it's not gonna be one of these strict liability type crimes where the age is the person wasn't able to consent by law. It's one of these issues where two people have sex and I can tell you as a defense lawyer it is not uncommon where one individual might be under the impression that the other is consenting and then the other party to the act may have a different impression. That does comes up and what I look for is kind of what I mentioned in the previous podcast, things about what the relationship was or what the people were doing the moments before the sexual activity occurred. Were they intimate prior to this act allegedly occurring? Were they planning on having sex? Was it everything that happened kind of a normal routine up until a certain point? These things matter because the prosecutor has the sole burden to prove that a crime was committed and specifically they have to prove that sexual battery occurred which means they have to prove penetration, they have to prove that sex basically happened. And then they have to prove that this victim did not consent. Now people can say, "I didn't want to" but experience has shown me that there are times when reasons other than what happened in that immediate moment, folks say that it was a nonconsensual moment. Sometimes that occurs because their misunderstanding about some circumstances that occurred. Sometimes that occurs because there are other influences, outside influences that cause them to change their perspective on what actually occurred. So the key is to know what the dynamic is in the relationship between the victim and the defendant. Did they know each other? What was the relationship like? Had they had sex before? And then, simply look at the facts surrounding the circumstances and what occurred. Obviously, when cases are violent, and people are severely injured, that's obviously a set of factors that I'd be concerned about as a defense lawyer because in general terms people don't typically consent to be injured and those are cases that become a lot more serious and they are punished a lot more seriously.  5:49 B: Are there - you mentioned the kind of relationship, are there other things that you look at - Communication back and forth via texting or messaging and just kind of see M: Sure, I've had plenty of cases where there is an allegation of a sexual battery and there is communication subsequent to the event where it's warm messages between both parties. They talk about meeting up later. And those are crucial pieces of evidence because it's what happens after the effect. You know, if this person sexually battered an individual then at least the common sense expectation is that the other person would not want to have anything to do with the other individual. They'd at least be cold and not talking about engaging in another event where they're together and meet up. So those are key. I don't know why people make things up when it happens sometimes, there's really no reason why. My only concern is what the facts and evidence is going to be when the prosecutor is looking at my client. And my job is to look at what those factors are and find out where the weakness is. Those post sex communications oftentimes are crucial in showing what really occurred that night.  B: In the last podcast, you also mentioned that husband and wife can have nonconsensual and it be considered sexual battery, correct? M: That's correct. The statute doesn't really take into account anything about the relationship except for if there's a familial type relationship, like a father/son, father/daughter, mother/son, mother/daughter. There's an enhanced penalty for that, but there isn't some defense to sexual battery saying, "hey it's my wife" or "hey, it's my husband." B: OK. Alright, anything else that you wanted to cover on that? M: Well, yeah, I think that the sexual battery statutes, a conviction on any type of sexual battery charge is absolutely devastating.  It has a life changing moment for a person, because if a person is convicted of any form of sexual battery, whether it be a second degree all the way up to a life in prison one, they're going to be registered under the Florida Department of Law Enforcement Database as either a sexual offender or a sexual predator predator and that's something that is public record and that will be there forever unless some court decides to change it. That's something that it's very hard to recover from, I would expect. I think that when someone's name is out there on the internet and shows that they've committed a sexual crime of some type, it's very hard for them to find a place to live and it's very hard for them to find a job, and it's certainly hard for them to find an accommodating atmosphere. Whether that's well deserved or not, the part that is so serious is when these things are maybe some crimes that people shouldn't be convicted of is when everything is on the table. Because you have a person's life, you have a person's entire future. Even if they beat the crime, even if they go to trial and we go to trial and is successful the jury is convinced and they're found not guilty, it's still very hard to recover from being arrested for such a serious crime like this.  B: It really is. Alright, well, we're gonna pick up on the next podcast talking on kind of a similar realm. We've been speaking with Clearwater Defense Attorney, Mike Kenny, with the Bauer Crider & Parry Law Firm in Tampa Florida and the surrounding area, and this is the FloridaDefense.com podcast.     

Overview of Sex Crimes Bauer Crider & Parry Podcast Brad: Alright, good morning, this is the FloridaDefense.com podcast. We are speaking to Tampa Sex Crimes Lawyer, Mike Kenny with the Bauer, Crider, & Parry Law Firm. Mike, how are you doing? Mike: I'm doing well. Good morning, how are you?  B: Doing well, doing well. Well we've got some interesting topics that we are going to be discussing today and kind of the main one today is just kind of an overview of sex crimes.  M: That's right. That's right. The sex crimes statutes in Florida, and I say statutes because there is a couple of different sections that you'll kind of find them in, cover a broad base of conduct that comes into play with sex related offenses. And kind of the way I look at it is you kind of have really two sections. You have this sexual battery section which is in Chapter 794 of the Florida Statutes, and that talks about basically consent type cases, cases where consent is actually an issue in the case. Where the person whose sexual activity was taken place with was not a willing participant. There's a whole bunch of sections under that that we focus a lot of time on in our firm as far as defending. And then there's another section, and that section falls under the section where we're talking about really age of the victim. And those are your lewd or lascivious chapters and those talk about mainly the age of the victim. Basically the incapacity of the victim to even consent, even if the victim was a willing participant. So, it's kind of broken down into those two parts, and they matter very much, because obviously they matter as far as what the defense might be in a certain set of circumstances and really what you want to look for as a criminal defense lawyer. I was a prosecutor for 5 1/2 years in Pasco County and I tried very many sex offenses. It's one of the main investigations that I did on a regular basis was involving sex crimes once a week. And I can tell you that those two crimes are kind of handled differently. The consent oriented crimes, there's a lot of focus on how the State might prove that the victim was not a willing participant, that the victim did not consent and there's a lot of evidence that the State might point to. But when you start talking about sex offenses that are involving minor victims like children, consent isn't really even a question or an issue. So, for instance, the Age of Consent, to have basically sex in Florida is 16 so anytime you have a case involving anyone under the age of 16 there could be a 15 year old and somebody older in school, maybe 17 or 18 in school, whether or not the 15 year old alleged that it was without her consent or his consent or not really is an irrelevant question because at the age of 15 they're not really deemed legally able to consent so that doesn't even come up in a jury instruction. All that has to be proven in a case involving someone under the age of 16 is that the act actually occurred. Whereas when you have a case involving two consenting adults, or shouldn't say consenting adults but two adults, two 18 year olds or even two 17 year olds, you have to prove not only did the act happen, but you have to show the lack of consent on the purported victim in a case.  4:06 B: Mike, I wanted to kind of mention something there. You mentioned you were prosecution in Pasco County, correct? And so you kind of worked the other side of the bench and now you're working the defense side. That's why I like hearing your perspective on these things. What - you mentioned that there was certain evidence the state would look at in a conviction, correct? What were some of the things - and I know you're working as a defense now, but what were some of the things that you were commonly looking for as a prosecutor. M: Well, I guess it depends on what kind of case you're looking at. If you're looking at a case involving two adults, what you look at is the relationship between the two parties. What was involved leading up into that relationship, whether or not there was any physical force used in the sexual activity that happened. It's not just that a victim would come in and say, "I didn't consent to this" That obviously carries a lot of weight, but as prosecutors we also realize that we have to prove cases, so we have to look for certain evidence that might suggest or might prove beyond a reasonable doubt to the jury that the case is exactly what we say it is. So the dynamic of the relationship - obviously a relationship where there is a couple that knows each other for a long period of time is a little bit different than two strangers and someone alleges that they were sexually battered as they were jogging in a park. Obviously, that's gonna be a case that's gonna have a lot more, I would say, a lot more of an impact on a jury, because there's two people who don't even know each other, never met each other, and the jury might be a little bit more likely to be convinced that this was a situation that was nonconsensual, versus a situation for instance where you have a husband and a wife. A husband and wife have been married for several years. In the State of Florida, they don't talk about the relationship being an issue to consent, all it talks about is that sexual activity happened without the other person's consent. So a husband can be convicted of raping his wife and vice versa in the State of Florida. B: Oh wow. Ok. Alright, so you kind of basically you kind of put it in two different categories, the consent and then the age and vulnerability, for the most part?  M: Yes, and I think that you'll find that the statutes go on. Unfortunately there is a number of different ways, especially in this new world that we live in where computers are involved, there's a number of different ways people can exploit other folks. So the Statutes kind of go on and on and on to capture every particular scenario that can be envisioned, but there's the consent type statutes which are basically the sexual battery statutes. Sexual Battery in Florida is basically what people might understand as rape. We don't have a rape charge, it's called sexual battery. And those statutes talk about a person having sex with another person and that person either didn't consent, that's basically your standard - when I say standard, that's your second degree felony. A second degree felony is punishable by up to 15 years in prison - that's the maximum you can get for that. And then you kind of have different levels of a sexual battery. So one is just basically without consent. Two people have sex, one of the persons was not a consenting party to that, that's a sexual battery. The next step is whether or not a person has sexual battery or is alleged to have committed a sexual battery and then the ideas that the person used force or threatened to use force. In that scenario, it rises up a level and becomes a first degree felony and then there's  another level beyond that which talks about whether the person was actually physically injured, or the sexual organs of the person were physically injured and that's a felony that can be punishable by life, even for a first time offense. So, you start off at the question of consent and then there's enhancements to that type of crime which brings the punishment up in levels of severity.  8:34 B: One thing I wanted to ask on the age and vulnerability area, and you mentioned just kind of if they're coherent enough to consent or not consent. Is that something that you always look at is whether alcohol was involved, drug use, that type stuff? M: Well, sure that's - that believe it or not can fall into just a regular sexual battery scenario. The as far as the alcohol involvement anyway or any of that. Consent is the question. So anytime a person alleges that he or she did not consent to the sexual endeavor, the issue is whether or not they were of sound mind to give consent or whether they were actually forced to do it. Whether they were threatened with force to do it. So a person can be absolutely under the influence and so inebriated that they don't really recall the events that took place and there's an argument that that was specifically an endeavor a sexual experience that did not involve consent, did not have consent from one of the parties. There have been plenty of cases that I had as a prosecutor where there are individuals at a party and one of the people passes out and when that one person passes out, the other person still engaged in sexual intercourse, and that would qualify as a sexual battery. The Statute actually specifically talks about cases where obviously we've heard the term "ruffy" before. The Statute specifically talks about a sexual battery would be a situation where a person engaged in sexual activity with another person when the act - the person committing the act - knew either by himself or knew that someone else administered an intoxicating drug or something that would sedate the other individual. And that comes up, has come up a lot in prosecution.  B: Alright, anything else, Mike? I know we've got a few more things we're going to cover in the next few podcasts, but  M: Sure, yeah the interesting thing about the you know if you want to talk about the cases where you have people being drugged, the interesting thing is the most common date rape type drugs that have been used, are used because they are very quick to be basically not necessarily effective or work but your body processes them very quickly so within 24 hrs whatever that person was administered isn't going to be there. So a lot of times the people don't even realize what happened - the people being the victims - don't even realize what happened until later. Don't even, they're curious as to how they found themselves in such a situation. And by two or three days later, it's too late to even test for the presence of the intoxicating substance. But the biggest, I think the most important issue to look at when you're looking at these two cases, is really the age is going to determine how the case is prosecuted, because if the victim is under the age of consent, meaning the victim is under 15, the prosecutor really I wouldn't even expect him or her to even concern himself with the consent aspect, meaning to prove that it was a nonconsensual endeavor because it doesn't matter. It's not a relevant question. It doesn't tend to prove of disprove anything that would be at issue in the trial. So all that has to be proven is that the act occurred and that's a lot - I don't want to say easier, but it's one less thing that the prosecutor has to do versus a case where you have two adults who have met the age of consent in Florida.  B: Well, I'm gonna stop you there Mike, and we'll pick up in the next podcast. Alright, you've been listening to Mike Kenny, Tampa Sex Crimes Lawyer at Bauer Crider & Parry and you've been listening to the FloridaDefense.com podcast.      

I finally spoke to Mike Young, founder, CTO and employee number 2. Unfortunately Mike had to leave early after last year's european symposium, so there I just got "the Brians" instead of the whole founder circle. This completes "the founders", though with Mike I'm more on the technical side. However. For those interested in the company history, there's still some things in there. As you'll see and hear, Mike is the project lead for Liferay Sync which has just been released this week (1. February 2012) - check it out or listen to the earlier episodes where it was mentioned. (11 and 13) Please refer to the Sync product home page or James' blog post announcing sync in order to see updates and current information on market positioning and licensing, which was not finalized when we spoke last December - so we didn't cover those topics then. We talked about * how Mike first met Brian Chan * You might remember that Brian suggested Mike that he had to use EJB for his wedding website - here's the story behind that, and how it got him involved with Brian and Liferay in the end. * The parts of Liferay's code that Mike was involved in - starting with "everyone did everything" * Liferay Sync, OpenSocial and WSRP being the current areas of work * With Mike I finally found the project lead, responsible for lobbying for a Linux client for Sync and was able to rant on. He delivered a nice and understandable reasoning. Even though this means I'll have to wait, I guess I won't rant any more ;-) * The mentioned "not yet" released Sync product has actually been released this week * Mike is the initial implementor of the OpenSocial implementation in 2009 or 2010, but now handed it over to Dennis * I know Mike best for his involvement with WSRP, "Web Services for Remote Portlets" - we talk about what it is and what it takes to make this really compatible with other portals. There are quite some interpretations of this standard (and not only this) that need to be validated in the respective environments. * The aspects that eat into performance when you have two portals involved in answering your request - and what the implementors on both side can do to mitigate the drawbacks. * The nature of WSRP calls and how it all works on a very high level * The roadmap for OpenSocial and what we're planning to build on top of that for the next release (6.2) You'll find this episode - and make sure that you don't miss any of the future episodes - by subscribing to the RSS feed, on itunes or with your podcatcher of choice - you'll find all the options on www.liferay.com/radio. And if you want to get notified when the next episode is out, follow @RadioLiferay This is another recording I did with some new recording gear, but, being new gear, I messed up the levels so I had to denoise it a bit, unfortunately a bit of noise still remains. I'm doing my best to get rid of that in future recordings. And please remember to rate this podcast in your podcast directory of choice and provide feedback here on the episodes as well. Thank you.

Mike "I'm always right" Jones of the NWS. The referee for the National Wrestling Superstars will discuss his career in the squared circle and all the famous wrestlers who have crossed his path. We will also discuss CM Punk's controversial promo from last night.

2007年に完結したハリー・ポッター・シリーズですが、英語で読んでみたいという人も多いのではないでしょうか。今回の会話は、まだ日本語の翻訳が揃っていなかった頃のお話。物語の結末を知ろうと一生懸命にハリー・ポッターの原書と格闘している女性を、男性がからかって（tease）いる様子です。 ところでハリー・ポッターの原書は、魔法の呪文（magic spells）など物語特有の表現に慣れれば比較的読みやすいので、ぜひ挑戦してみてください。番組の最後では、Joeが英語の本を読むときのこつを紹介しています。 Download MP3 （15:03　8.7MB　初級～中級） *** Script *** M: Hey!!!! W: Crazy!? You scared me!!! I was reading! M: Good. Hey, you're still reading Harry Potter? Are you ever gonna finish that? W: Very soon!! M: Why did you start reading in English? There's a Japanese version, isn't there? I know you like speaking English, but I thought you didn't like reading English. What changed? W: Would you mind, Mike? I'm reading now. Don't talk to me. M: Hey, Saori. Come on. Why so testy? W: (Sigh) Sorry, Mike. I just have…you know…a headache. M: A headache? That's because you are trying new things. Stop reading! W: But I want to know what happens to Harry in the end! Of course, there'll be a Japanese version someday. I think it's gonna be next year. But I can't wait! M: Ahhh, I got it. So there isn't a Japanese version yet. That's why you started reading it in English. Sorry about that. W: Did you already read it? M: Yeah, I finished it last month, on the published day!! It was a very good ending, my friend! W: Oh, you're so sweet, Mike. M: Yeah, I know. W: I meant to be sarcastic. M: Yes! I know. Hey, I can help you read! W: So, can you summarize this page? There are too many magic spells here. M: You mean only this page? Kidding me? I can summarize the whole book. That's much easier, right? So in the end, Harry… W: Hey, stop! What are you thinking about!? Crazy? I've been reading this book for more than a month. Are you going to spoil my excitement? M: Hey, calm down, Saori. I'm just kidding you. Don't get mad like that! W: I'm mad because of you. You always tease me! You're such a jerk, Mike!!!! M: Yes, just a jerk who wants to go to the cafeteria with you. Shall we? W: Hmmm, that sounds good. Let's do it! (Written by Saori Nakanishi)

2007年に完結したハリー・ポッター・シリーズですが、英語で読んでみたいという人も多いのではないでしょうか。今回の会話は、まだ日本語の翻訳が揃っていなかった頃のお話。物語の結末を知ろうと一生懸命にハリー・ポッターの原書と格闘している女性を、男性がからかって（tease）いる様子です。 ところでハリー・ポッターの原書は、魔法の呪文（magic spells）など物語特有の表現に慣れれば比較的読みやすいので、ぜひ挑戦してみてください。番組の最後では、Joeが英語の本を読むときのこつを紹介しています。 Download MP3 （15:03　8.7MB　初級～中級） *** Script *** M: Hey!!!! W: Crazy!? You scared me!!! I was reading! M: Good. Hey, you're still reading Harry Potter? Are you ever gonna finish that? W: Very soon!! M: Why did you start reading in English? There's a Japanese version, isn't there? I know you like speaking English, but I thought you didn't like reading English. What changed? W: Would you mind, Mike? I'm reading now. Don't talk to me. M: Hey, Saori. Come on. Why so testy? W: (Sigh) Sorry, Mike. I just have…you know…a headache. M: A headache? That's because you are trying new things. Stop reading! W: But I want to know what happens to Harry in the end! Of course, there'll be a Japanese version someday. I think it's gonna be next year. But I can't wait! M: Ahhh, I got it. So there isn't a Japanese version yet. That's why you started reading it in English. Sorry about that. W: Did you already read it? M: Yeah, I finished it last month, on the published day!! It was a very good ending, my friend! W: Oh, you're so sweet, Mike. M: Yeah, I know. W: I meant to be sarcastic. M: Yes! I know. Hey, I can help you read! W: So, can you summarize this page? There are too many magic spells here. M: You mean only this page? Kidding me? I can summarize the whole book. That's much easier, right? So in the end, Harry… W: Hey, stop! What are you thinking about!? Crazy? I've been reading this book for more than a month. Are you going to spoil my excitement? M: Hey, calm down, Saori. I'm just kidding you. Don't get mad like that! W: I'm mad because of you. You always tease me! You're such a jerk, Mike!!!! M: Yes, just a jerk who wants to go to the cafeteria with you. Shall we? W: Hmmm, that sounds good. Let's do it! (Written by Saori Nakanishi)