One of the four census regions of the United States of America
In South Phoenix, we had the pleasure of meeting our next guest, Dan Collins, a true product of the Southwest Chicago area. Dan shared some insights into what it was like growing up in the heart of the Midwest, which offered him a somewhat typical Midwestern childhood experience.As the only boy in the family, Dan's upbringing had its share of unique experiences. His father was a dedicated union worker, which undoubtedly left an impression on young Dan. Around the sixth grade, the government implemented a busing program, reshuffling children from one part of the city to another for school. Dan found himself attending a Catholic school to avoid being bused into the inner city, but this move didn't shield him from youthful mischief.At the tender age of 13, Dan ventured into some questionable activities, including pilfering Valiums from his grandma's medicine cabinet and even getting caught selling "black beauties." This led to a tumultuous period that culminated in a 90-day stay in a psychiatric ward. His stay was etched in his memory, from the names of the counselors to the doctors who attended to him. After his release, he entered high school and fell into a life of gang involvement, distancing himself from his family.A pivotal moment came when Dan found his passion in sports, particularly track, and believed he was on the right track (pun intended). However, a series of mistakes led to him losing his eligibility, pushing him down a darker path. Despite enduring hardships, including struggles with alcoholism, Dan managed to achieve sobriety in 2013, embarking on a journey of recovery.Remarkably, Dan is now an ordained minister who dedicates his life to working with addicts and alcoholics, offering support and guidance. His story is one of struggle, resilience, redemption, and ultimately, service. Join us in this powerful episode as we delve into Dan's life, filled with its share of trials and triumphs, and discover the inspiring journey of a man who found a higher calling in helping others. This is The Jar, where we engage in real conversations with real people, sharing their compelling stories.Dans Site. https://www.facebook.com/share/cFQcV2iKpTx4fe4t/?mibextid=K35XfPFor more of The Jar, visit:Website: https://www.thejar.live/Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaTqB1dhDvl0Oh505ysdxTgFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/podcast.thejarInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejar_podcast/Disclaimer: The views stated in this episode are our guest's opinions and do not represent the views, beliefs or opinions of The Jar Podcast. Our goal is to provide a platform for everyone no matter what they believe, and we would like to continue to do that while making it clear our guests are not a representation of The Jar Podcast.
Allow me, Journey Joe Mitchell, to take you on an auditory adventure, and peel back the layers of this Midwestern gem; a city that thrums with an electric mix of culture, food, sports, and a whole lot of soul. From the ear-thrilling experience of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame to the eye-catching masterpieces at the Cleveland Museum of Art, we explore the city's dynamic arts scene. We'll also tickle your taste buds with insights into the city's diverse food scene and whet your appetite for outdoor adventure with tales of the city's green expanse and the refreshing waters of Lake Erie.As the sun sets, we uncover the city's vibrant nightlife, and for the theatre enthusiasts - prepare to be enthralled by Broadway-level performances at Playhouse Square. For sports aficionados, we dive into the adrenaline-filled games and robust tailgating traditions that the city is known for. And for the families out there, get ready for an underwater adventure at the Greater Cleveland Aquarium, a wild ride at the Cleveland Metro Park Zoo, and a science-filled trip at the Great Lakes Science Center. So, tune in as we journey through a city brimming with life, culture, and Midwestern charm, and discover why Cleveland is more than just another stop on the map.This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/4952649/advertisement
Make sure to follow all these great shows and promotions AAW 12/01 for tickets go to aawpro.ticketleap.com can't go live you can watch with a subscription to https://www.highspots.tv/ F1rst 12/02 Magnum Pro Wrestling 12/02 POWW 12/02 GLCW 12/02 Blizzard Brawl Wrestling Reveler 12/02 Black Label Pro 12/02 Make sure to follow us on all the socials and our podcast families and partners below. And highfivers make sure to Tune In and Tune out, press play and enjoy because ya know we sure as shit did. Follow the MWR Pod on Twitter https://twitter.com/MWRPod414 Join the MWR Pod Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1244836833095229/ Follow VGM at https://twitter.com/VisGlobalMedia
Seth Meyers (Late Night with Seth Myers, Saturday Night Live) and Josh Meyers (Mad TV, That '70s Show) join us this week for a hilarious conversation on their Midwestern upbringing. They recall their first 'birds and the bees' chat with their dad, why Seth is incapable of lying, how Josh handles heartbreak, and why they're each other's biggest supporters. Sophie, Penn and Nava declare them the most wholesome guests they've ever had and try to find a way to become part of the Meyers' family.Follow Podcrushed on socials:TikTokInstagramX
Part one of our engaging conversation with Dr. Glenn Sunshine takes us into the heart of medieval missions, focusing on influential figures like Saint Boniface and Saint Patrick. Dr. Sunshine, with his deep knowledge of European history, paints a vivid picture of the missionary landscape during the early medieval period. This episode delves into the strategies, theological perspectives, and historical contexts that defined this era, contrasting them with later missionary movements. Discover the rich heritage and the often-overlooked depth of medieval missions, and understand the misconceptions surrounding these pivotal moments in Christian history. Dr. Glenn Sunshine, the founder and president of Every Square Inch Ministries, is a retired professor of European history from Central Connecticut State University. As a Ministry Associate at Reflections Ministries, and a Senior Fellow at the Colson Center for Christian Worldview, Dr. Sunshine is widely recognized for his expertise in integrating Christian faith with historical insights. He is an author of notable books, including the recent 32 Christians Who Changed Their World, and a cohost of The Theology Pugcast. His work spans continents, reflecting his commitment to a global Christian perspective. This show is brought to you in part through partnership with Midwestern Seminary. Learn more about Midwestern and their For the Church Institute at ftcinstitute.com. Believe in our mission? Support the show at missionspodcast.com/support. The Missions Podcast is a ministry resource of ABWE. Learn more at abwe.org. Want to ask a question or suggest a topic? Email firstname.lastname@example.org.
On this episode, J. Daniel takes readers back more than forty years, telling a story that is part baseball history, part urban history, and part U.S. cultural history, with a narrative weaving together the development of the Midwestern cities of St. Louis and Milwaukee through their engagement with beer and baseball. In Suds Series: Baseball, Beer Wars, and the Summer of '82 (University of Missouri Press, 2023), Daniel provides much more than a simple play-by-play of the season that was, highlighting the impact of the 1981 strike on free agency and player movement, offering an engaging snapshot of early '80s pop culture and “hop culture,” and covering both the famous players and personalities—Rickey Henderson's stolen bases, Reggie Jackson's home run brigade, and the birth of Cal Ripken Jr.'s iron man streak—and tragic teams alike. Although the small-ball Cardinals would prevail over the “Wallbanging” Brewers in October of 1982 after seven thrilling games and a season of attrition, these two teams remain iconic in their home cities, and Daniel joined the New Books Network to discuss the intrigue and impact of 1982 as well as its enduring relevance to the current era, as baseball seeks a winning formula to recapture modern-day audiences. Jonathan “J.” Daniel has spent twenty years working in sports, both in front of and behind the camera. He produced five seasons of Rays Magazine, a weekly television show about the Tampa Bay Rays, and worked as a sports producer at Fox affiliates in Tampa and Chicago. He is the author of Phinally!: The Phillies, the Royals, and the 1980 Baseball Season That Almost Wasn't (McFarland & Co., 2018) and blogs at https://www.80sbaseball.com. Rob Heaton (Ph.D., University of Denver, 2019) is a professor of New Testament and typically hosts Biblical Studies conversations for the New Books Network, but occasionally covers topics of his normal beat as a hobbyist. In this case, he stepped up to the plate for New Books in Sports as a lifelong baseball fan, native St. Louisan, and one-time wannabe sportscaster. For more about Rob and his work, or to offer feedback related to this episode, please visit his website at https://www.robheaton.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network
On this episode, J. Daniel takes readers back more than forty years, telling a story that is part baseball history, part urban history, and part U.S. cultural history, with a narrative weaving together the development of the Midwestern cities of St. Louis and Milwaukee through their engagement with beer and baseball. In Suds Series: Baseball, Beer Wars, and the Summer of '82 (University of Missouri Press, 2023), Daniel provides much more than a simple play-by-play of the season that was, highlighting the impact of the 1981 strike on free agency and player movement, offering an engaging snapshot of early '80s pop culture and “hop culture,” and covering both the famous players and personalities—Rickey Henderson's stolen bases, Reggie Jackson's home run brigade, and the birth of Cal Ripken Jr.'s iron man streak—and tragic teams alike. Although the small-ball Cardinals would prevail over the “Wallbanging” Brewers in October of 1982 after seven thrilling games and a season of attrition, these two teams remain iconic in their home cities, and Daniel joined the New Books Network to discuss the intrigue and impact of 1982 as well as its enduring relevance to the current era, as baseball seeks a winning formula to recapture modern-day audiences. Jonathan “J.” Daniel has spent twenty years working in sports, both in front of and behind the camera. He produced five seasons of Rays Magazine, a weekly television show about the Tampa Bay Rays, and worked as a sports producer at Fox affiliates in Tampa and Chicago. He is the author of Phinally!: The Phillies, the Royals, and the 1980 Baseball Season That Almost Wasn't (McFarland & Co., 2018) and blogs at https://www.80sbaseball.com. Rob Heaton (Ph.D., University of Denver, 2019) is a professor of New Testament and typically hosts Biblical Studies conversations for the New Books Network, but occasionally covers topics of his normal beat as a hobbyist. In this case, he stepped up to the plate for New Books in Sports as a lifelong baseball fan, native St. Louisan, and one-time wannabe sportscaster. For more about Rob and his work, or to offer feedback related to this episode, please visit his website at https://www.robheaton.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies
On this episode, J. Daniel takes readers back more than forty years, telling a story that is part baseball history, part urban history, and part U.S. cultural history, with a narrative weaving together the development of the Midwestern cities of St. Louis and Milwaukee through their engagement with beer and baseball. In Suds Series: Baseball, Beer Wars, and the Summer of '82 (University of Missouri Press, 2023), Daniel provides much more than a simple play-by-play of the season that was, highlighting the impact of the 1981 strike on free agency and player movement, offering an engaging snapshot of early '80s pop culture and “hop culture,” and covering both the famous players and personalities—Rickey Henderson's stolen bases, Reggie Jackson's home run brigade, and the birth of Cal Ripken Jr.'s iron man streak—and tragic teams alike. Although the small-ball Cardinals would prevail over the “Wallbanging” Brewers in October of 1982 after seven thrilling games and a season of attrition, these two teams remain iconic in their home cities, and Daniel joined the New Books Network to discuss the intrigue and impact of 1982 as well as its enduring relevance to the current era, as baseball seeks a winning formula to recapture modern-day audiences. Jonathan “J.” Daniel has spent twenty years working in sports, both in front of and behind the camera. He produced five seasons of Rays Magazine, a weekly television show about the Tampa Bay Rays, and worked as a sports producer at Fox affiliates in Tampa and Chicago. He is the author of Phinally!: The Phillies, the Royals, and the 1980 Baseball Season That Almost Wasn't (McFarland & Co., 2018) and blogs at https://www.80sbaseball.com. Rob Heaton (Ph.D., University of Denver, 2019) is a professor of New Testament and typically hosts Biblical Studies conversations for the New Books Network, but occasionally covers topics of his normal beat as a hobbyist. In this case, he stepped up to the plate for New Books in Sports as a lifelong baseball fan, native St. Louisan, and one-time wannabe sportscaster. For more about Rob and his work, or to offer feedback related to this episode, please visit his website at https://www.robheaton.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/sports
Fortitude the artist under consideration, embodies a distinctive musical style, which could aptly be coined as "Wisconsin rap." This nomenclature finds its roots in the artist's Wisconsin upbringing, offering a geographic and cultural context to his artistic expression. Fortitude's rap, characterized by a discernible upper-Midwestern ambiance, exudes a straightforward yet compelling quality. Whether delivered at an accelerated pace or in a more measured cadence, his lyrics possess an unassuming narrative elegance, imbued with a poetic essence that adds depth and resonance to his musical compositions.
This episode of Heartland Horrors Month surprises Christopher and Eric with a 1990's serial killing spree that found gay men being targeted in one of the Midwest's most progressive cities, a story that somehow managed to escape the notice of your queer-savvy hosts until now. In season 2, episode 6 of HOMETOWN HOMICIDE entitled "Unsafe Anywhere", we head to Minneapolis/St. Paul where a vicious, self-loathing killer stalks the gay men who've sought sanctuary in its more accepting neighborhoods. But a responsive police force — with some help from an undercover gay detective — put a stop to the murders before they could exact an even more terrible toll. Still, why are many of us just learning of this story now? Was it swallowed up by the nightmarish murder spree and arrest of a more famous Midwestern slayer of queer men?
On this episode, J. Daniel takes readers back more than forty years, telling a story that is part baseball history, part urban history, and part U.S. cultural history, with a narrative weaving together the development of the Midwestern cities of St. Louis and Milwaukee through their engagement with beer and baseball. In Suds Series: Baseball, Beer Wars, and the Summer of '82 (University of Missouri Press, 2023), Daniel provides much more than a simple play-by-play of the season that was, highlighting the impact of the 1981 strike on free agency and player movement, offering an engaging snapshot of early '80s pop culture and “hop culture,” and covering both the famous players and personalities—Rickey Henderson's stolen bases, Reggie Jackson's home run brigade, and the birth of Cal Ripken Jr.'s iron man streak—and tragic teams alike. Although the small-ball Cardinals would prevail over the “Wallbanging” Brewers in October of 1982 after seven thrilling games and a season of attrition, these two teams remain iconic in their home cities, and Daniel joined the New Books Network to discuss the intrigue and impact of 1982 as well as its enduring relevance to the current era, as baseball seeks a winning formula to recapture modern-day audiences. Jonathan “J.” Daniel has spent twenty years working in sports, both in front of and behind the camera. He produced five seasons of Rays Magazine, a weekly television show about the Tampa Bay Rays, and worked as a sports producer at Fox affiliates in Tampa and Chicago. He is the author of Phinally!: The Phillies, the Royals, and the 1980 Baseball Season That Almost Wasn't (McFarland & Co., 2018) and blogs at https://www.80sbaseball.com. Rob Heaton (Ph.D., University of Denver, 2019) is a professor of New Testament and typically hosts Biblical Studies conversations for the New Books Network, but occasionally covers topics of his normal beat as a hobbyist. In this case, he stepped up to the plate for New Books in Sports as a lifelong baseball fan, native St. Louisan, and one-time wannabe sportscaster. For more about Rob and his work, or to offer feedback related to this episode, please visit his website at https://www.robheaton.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/history
Are you familiar with the term "Turkey Drop"? This phenomenon occurs when college freshmen return home for Thanksgiving and often part ways with their hometown sweethearts. In a special Thanksgiving episode of Real Talk, hosts Susan and Kristina are joined by three students from a prominent midwestern university. Each student candidly shares their personal experiences of going through breakups during this period, offering valuable insights into the complexities and emotions leading up to these moments of transition. LINKS MENTIONED IN THE SHOW: https://www.amazon.com/Yes-Your-Kid-Parents-Todays/dp/1637743807 SHOW NOTES: · Introduction to the show and hosts, Susan Stone and Kristina Supler (00:01) · Discussion on the excitement of the first Thanksgiving when students come home from college (00:14) · Introduction of the "Turkey drop" concept and personal experiences (00:38) · Introduction of three student guests: Laney, Jenna, and Morgan (01:41) · Discussion on the reasons behind the "Turkey drop" (06:02) · Sharing locations with friends and partners for safety and convenience (08:59) · Experiences post "Turkey drop" and current relationships with ex-partners (16:04) · Advice for freshmen with high school relationships (17:49) · Suggestion for a holiday gift: the book "Yes, your Kid" (19:35) · Conclusion and thanks to the guests (20:10) · Outro and promotion for the show (20:46) TRANSCRIPT: Susan Stone: Welcome back to Real Talk with Susan Stone and Kristina Suler. We are full-time moms and attorneys bringing our student defense legal practice to life with real candid conversation. Susan Stone: So in anticipation of Thanksgiving, Kristina, I wanted to do a really fun podcast, but I have to tell you that I know parents who have the freshmen who went off to college. The parents are so excited because there's nothing like that. First Thanksgiving when your kid comes home from college one day. You'll say that to me. I remember when you told me that. Kristina Supler: I'm sure I don't doubt it. Susan Stone: But not all is Turkey and pumpkins because some kids come home from college and they do the Turkey drop, which is when college kids come home and break up with their hometown, honey. But Kristina, you have an interesting view of this and actually so do I, but I want to hear what you say. Kristina Supler: I did not do the Turkey drop, so I married my high school sweetheart. I didn't come home from Thanksgiving and do the breakup that you see everywhere. And now I'm married and have two kids, Susan Stone: And I also want to share, and I hope I don't embarrass her, that my own daughter did not do the Turkey drop and she just married her high school sweetheart this summer. So it doesn't always happen. But with that said, I'm hoping we're going to get into some juicy conversation about it. Why don't you introduce our guests? Kristina Supler: Yes. We are really excited today to be joined by three students from a wonderful Midwestern university that we're very familiar with. We're joined today by Laney, Jenna, and Morgan, who are going to share with us their perspectives on the Turkey drop. So ladies, without giving away anything that would reveal your identities, tell us a little bit about yourselves and what you're doing at school and really what you know about the Turkey drop Susan Stone: And identify yourselves because of course our listeners can only hear you and not see you. So say it's Jenna, it's Laney. Jenna: I'm Jenna. I am currently applying to law school right now, which is exciting and going through the process. Yes, and I did participate in the Turkey drop my freshman year of college. Susan Stone: What happened? Jenna: Pretty much verbatim what the Turkey drop would be. Two days after Thanksgiving, he came over to my family Thanksgiving party and then I was like, this is just not it anymore. And then two days later we broke up and now he's dating my best friend from high school. Susan Stone: No, well, there you go. Jenna, what question? Were you both freshmen at different colleges or was he your hometown and still in high school? Jenna: He was from my hometown, but we were both at separate colleges. We went separate colleges, so did long distance for the first three months and then called it quits. Susan Stone: Was it hard for you? I was just going to ask. Jenna: I was upset a little bit, but I was very much ready for the relationship to be over. But I feel like when you're date for a while, it's always a little bit upsetting, but definitely. Well, it's Susan Stone: We'll it's always over until you meet the one, right? Right. Yeah. Laney, what about you? Lany: Okay, so my story's a little bit different. Well, I'm Laney and I am a marketing major, and I did the Turkey drop second or my second year of college, so my sophomore year. So we actually made it through the freshman year, but then sophomore year we did it for a while. I just kind of was like, I don't even know. I was kind of just bored. I needed something new and then I was seeing all these new faces at school, so I just decided to participate in the Turkey drop and it happened. Well, he knew it was coming that I was going to break up with him. So when we were from the same hometown, but we went to two separate colleges, but he knew I was going to break up with him, so he just made me do it over the phone because he didn't want to have to see me in person to do it. I think he was embarrassed. Susan Stone: I think that's reasonable, don't you? Yeah, I mean, Lany: Yeah, it's reasonable. We ended up talking after that, but we dated for about four years, so I feel like it would've been a little more mature if he let me do it in person. Kristina Supler: Oh, that's a long relationship to just have a breakup over the phone actually. I agree with you. Lany: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, but then we ended up talking later over Thanksgiving, I think at Christmas break is when we actually ended up talking in person. But nope, just over Thanksgiving break I went for a drive and just broke up with him over the phone. Kristina Supler: Morgan, what about you Morgan? Morgan: I know. So I participated in the Turkey job my freshman year of college and we went to two different colleges. We dated all through high school and I don't know, I kind of just got to college and realized there's more to do in the world than be with my high school boyfriend, and I just decided that it was becoming a lot, having to keep up with him all the time, and I thought it was time to go our separate ways. Susan Stone: And I mean, was the grass greener on the other side of the fence? Morgan: Yes, I will say I think that's so bad, but I think it was a long time coming Halloween and he surprised me on Halloween right before we went home for Thanksgiving and it was fine, except I think I realized that was when I wasn't the most excited to be seeing him. I was excited for a fun Halloween with my new friends that I had met at college. So it was definitely that for me that I realized I think I was better off just doing my own thing and being more independent than having to rely on my high school boyfriend. Susan Stone: Well, that leads me to the question for all three of you, and maybe we just kind of go in reverse order. What do you think the main reasons are for the Turkey drop? Morgan: I think for me, it wasn't even like I met someone new at school that I was interested in. I think it was more just realizing I didn't want to have to be, I don't know. I wanted to be able to go out and not have to worry about texting my boyfriend where I was, who I was with, what I was doing. And that's kind of what it was for me freshman year because I know for me, I really loved my school, but for him it was a bit of a different story. So it was just two different dynamics and I think it was just time for us to part ways and meet new people. Lany: I would say almost the same thing. Yeah, we went to two very different schools. He was playing a sport in college, the division one sport, so he was super busy and we were just living two completely different lives and I was just meeting a bunch of people and we're in a sorority, so taking people to date parties, it kind of just got to the point where I just wanted to be able to go to more date parties with boys and bring them to mine. And I don't know, just our schools were very different, so I feel like I would be doing things completely different than he would on the weekends. He would be going to games and I would be going out and stuff. Just meeting a lot of people. Jenna: And then I think for me was our relationship was fine, except I think that once we both went our separate ways to college, we were a little too okay without each other and we never went to visit each other, never really cared to. So I think it was more of a just fizzling out of a relationship because we just really kind of realized that we were very okay without each other and didn't really need that anymore. Susan Stone: So I have a question, Jenna, you mentioned not wanting to have to go out and then check in with your boyfriend when you got home. I am curious, how common is it that you share your locations and you check in with each other after a night out? Are all college students doing that now or is that something that only parents do to keep an eye on their students? Jenna: It's actually funny. I still have his location. He still has mine really, because we just never unshared them. But I think, all my friends have my locations and stuff, so I think it's really common now just for a lot of people to have your location, not necessarily making sure you're in a certain place or whatever, more for safety purposes and stuff and just because fun to see where everyone is. I do think it's kind of normal now if you guys would say the same. Yeah, definitely. Susan Stone: I just want to point out that I always disagree with parents about locations. I'm one of the few parents I know who does not share location. Kristina Supler: You always say Susan, I don't want to know. Let them lead their lives. I want to live my life. Susan Stone: Well, parents say to me, but it's a safety thing, and I respond back, what are you going to do? Students: That's so true. Yeah, that is very true. Susan Stone: And I also don't want to know my husband's location, and you know what? I don't want him to know mine. I am. Amen. Yeah, I just feel like I got to be a level of trust. Do you think, do you view it because I know all our clients sharing location is a thing, so do you view it as a way of forming intimacy with a friend or a boyfriend or a safety issue? Because I find it creepy. Lany: I feel like I use it a lot more for my friends than I do with my family. Like you said, what are you going to do about it? Yeah, if I'm going out and it's two in the morning, my mom's sleeping, she's not looking at my location. But I feel like for friends, it's super nice, like, oh, we're at one bar, but I don't know where my friends are. You just look at their location. If sometimes in the bars your phone's not working or people just aren't on them, it's good to just be able, oh, they're here. I can go there. Or someone's picking you up from class and you can just check to see how far they are. I feel like it's honestly very useful. Convenient. Convenient for roommates, but I'm not ever really looking at my mom or dad's location. Well, my dad will share it. I feel like locations be a good thing until you take it. If someone was to take it out of pocket, I feel like if you had a boyfriend really tracking you and keeping tabs on where you are, then I feel like that's just taken to the next level. But I agree. I think I use my location more for just us. Yeah, for sure. Susan Stone: Interesting. Kristina Supler: Yeah. I'm wondering for, so the three of you have all done the Turkey Drop. Do you have any friends who have done it but then maybe reunited with the dropped person later? Student: I do. I have a friend who did. I don't remember if she did Turkey drop or if it was over Christmas break, one of the two. But then, yeah, they reunited back over summer, but then broke up two months after that. So I think it was for the best that the Turkey drop should have just stayed. Susan Stone: Do you think you could manage, if you sort of were on the fence, okay, that you realized, I do love this person, but I don't want to be timed down. Could you remain open or is that too much? Student: I feel like that's the point. Student: I agree with that. I feel like I was to the point where I was like, if I'm going to break up with him, I just like it's going to happen. I didn't want to, don't know. I feel like I was past the point of making the effort, trying new things of if I would do open or anything. It was kind of just past that point. She was staying open. Student: I think that I feel like I was already kind of doing that. We really didn't. I never texted him the whole time when I was out. I did my own thing. I usually really never knew where he was or what he was doing, which just goes to my point where I think we were a little bit too comfortable with being away from each other. Student: I think mine was more of kind of random. I remember calling my mom, she's like, why are you breaking up with him? I didn't really have a reason. I feel like it was just not being able to see him. We lived in the same neighborhood, so I saw him all the time before every single day. So I think just kind of growing apart and nothing really happened, so it was hard, but I feel like, I don't know what I'm even going with this, but I feel like if we would've went to the same schools, we probably would've stayed together. Student: I feel like when it begins to feel like you have to text them and you have to tell them things, you kind of just know this is fizzling out. We're going to go our separate ways. When something exciting happens and you're like, they're not the first person you want to go talk to about it, you just don't feel like it, then it's probably a time to Oh, yeah. Yeah. Susan Stone: Ladies, you are on Real Talk with Susan and Kristina, so I'm going to ask you something and I want you to be real. The breakup, was it in your minds at all? Oh my gosh, we're heading into the holiday season, have to buy gifts, spend time with their families, all of that. Was that on your radar or no? Student: No, but we already started buying gifts for each other for Christmas, and I was like, I got him $200 raybans. So I was like, okay, I'm just going to return them. And he was like, no, let's meet up in a month, go to lunch and exchange our gifts. And I was like, okay. So I ended up giving my ex-boyfriend $200 Raybans, and I got a plastic Starbucks cup and Susan Stone: He cheaped out on you? Student: Yeah, that was definitely something. Student: Yeah, so I kind of have a similar thing. My birthday was in September, so for my birthday he bought me tickets. I was a really big Louisville football fan. He's big Kentucky, so the big game was over Christmas break, so for my birthday in September, he had bought me those tickets. I don't even know if he had bought them yet. So we were supposed to go over Christmas break, so I never even got my birthday present because then we broke up and then I didn't even get the tickets. Shoot. I know. So not Christmas gifts, but I didn't even get my birthday. Student: I feel like I really, I was just so kind of in my head just over, I knew it was kind of over. I don't really think I thought much into Christmas gifts or anything because I just knew when I got home and saw him again, I was just going to cut it off. I didn't want to do it over the phone because we had been dating for a while and I wanted to try to be respectful about it. Susan Stone: If you saw the person now, would it be friendly, awkward? What's the state? How do you feel about that person now? Student: So my ex-boyfriend's actually in my high school friend group from home. I definitely see him more often than not when I'm home, but I feel like it's not really awkward because it definitely was at first for sure. But now at this point, I mean we've seen each other over breaks. We just kind of say hi. We're not really small talking, but we're still civil and friendly with one another. Susan Stone: That's nice. Student: Yeah, that's how I am too. Like I mentioned earlier, we live in the same neighborhood, so I definitely run into him every once in a while. It's not really awkward at all. We still, every once in a while we'll text and catch up. I dated him for so long, so we're still good friends and we'll catch up, but I was really close with his family, so sometimes when I go home for a night or something, I live pretty close to school, I'll see his family and I'll go over to his family's house and hang out with them when he's not there. I was just so close with him, his parents and then his older sisters I was super close with. So it's not awkward at all for me. Student: Same for me. We're in the same high school friend group too, so we saw each other a few times over the summer and it's never really weird. If I have my friends over, I invite him. We ended things very on good terms, so it's all good. Susan Stone: How many of you are big sisters in your sorority? All: We all, yeah, we all are. Yeah. Susan Stone: Are your littles freshmen? All: They're they're juniors. Susan Stone: Oh, okay. So if you had advice for a freshman who you knew had a hometown, honey, what would be your advice Student: I think that it's always worth a try, but don't go in with the highest expectations because nine times out of 10 it doesn't work out. And that's fine and you'll be fine. Student: Yeah, I mean, yeah, that I guess is better advice. Go in it with it, but also don't miss out on things. Go to the date parties. If your boyfriend trusts you not to do anything, then I think it's totally fair to be friends with a guy as just friends and go to his date parties and stuff. I feel like when me and my boyfriend broke up, I met so many more guys. I wasn't, there wasn't even a guy that I liked. You just meet so many more people when you don't have a boyfriend because you get invited to those things. I guess that's for being in sororities and fraternities, but just don't miss out on things because of a relationship. And if you are, then it's probably not meant to be. Student: I definitely agree. I think freshman year is one of the most important times to meet new friends and figure out what you want to be doing and what you like and the people you want to be around. And I think that it's like you need to make sure that having a boyfriend isn't holding you back from those types of things because those are the friendships you're going to look on to later on and be so happy that you met those girls and you went to that thing. You went to that event, you went out that night just because, I don't know, you don't want to miss out on stuff like that. And if a boyfriend's holding you back from that, it's probably time to let him go. Student: Agreed. Susan Stone: So Kristina, I have a suggestion for these lovely ladies. What they should get their parents for Christmas or for the holidays? Kristina Supler: Oh, you are the most clever of them all. Ms. Stone, what is it? What do you think it is? Oh my gosh, look at that. Susan Stone: I think on Amazon, all of your friends should get a copy of Yes, your Kid. What parents Need To Know About Today's Teens and Sex - Co-written by yours truly, because there's some new topics about the new sex ed in here, like rough sex, choking, plan B. We know what you really do, guys, so I think you should let your parents know. What do you think, Kristina? Kristina Supler: Check it out. It's a good primer for parents on what I mean, what you all know, but what we're seeing when people come to us for various types of matters and what's really going on college campuses these days, which is shocking to some parents, but not to us because it's what we do. But it was really such a treat speaking with you all. Thank you so much for joining us, Laney, Jenna, and Morgan, and hopefully this was a fun little episode for our listeners to just talk about the Turkey drop. Thanks for listening to Real Talk with Susan and Kristina. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our show so you never miss an episode and leave us a review so other people can find the content we share here. You can follow us on Instagram, just search our handle @StoneSupler and for more resources, visit us online at studentdefense.kjk.com. Thank you so much for being a part of our Real Talk community. We'll see you next time.
Fargo comes to your small screen with a two episode premiere of season 5! Jim and A.Ron are here to take you back to the not-so-distant past of 2019 where dumb cops, supernatural entities and copious amounts of violence descend on a Midwestern town. This grim version of Home Alone didn't pack laughs, but its potential for mayhem is tantalizing. Don't forget to set your traps!Send your feedback to email@example.com!Hey there! Check out https://support.baldmove.com/ to find out how you can gain access to ALL of our premium content, as well as ad-free versions of the podcasts, for just $5 a month! Join the Club! Join the discussion: Email | Discord | Reddit | ForumsFollow us: Twitch | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook Leave Us A Review on Apple PodcastsThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5952832/advertisement
Here are all the great shows going down this weekend: First we BCW/MIAW 11/22 . JWA 11/22 Legacy Pro 11/24 Frozen Tundra 11/24 Absolute Intense Wrestling 11/24 Pro Wrestling Battle Ground 11/25 Independent Pro Wrestling 11/26 Make sure to follow us on all the socials and our podcast families and partners below. And highfivers make sure to Tune In and Tune out, press play and enjoy because ya know we sure as shit did. Follow the MWR Pod on Twitter https://twitter.com/MWRPod414 Join the MWR Pod Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1244836833095229/ Follow VGM at https://twitter.com/VisGlobalMedia
This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Nov. 14. It dropped for free subscribers on Nov. 21. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoJim Vick, General Manager of Lutsen Mountains, MinnesotaRecorded onOctober 30, 2023About Lutsen MountainsClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Midwest Family Ski ResortsLocated in: Lutsen, MinnesotaYear founded: 1948Pass affiliations:* Legendary Gold Pass – unlimited access, no blackouts* Legendary Silver Pass – unlimited with 12 holiday and peak Saturday blackouts* Legendary Bronze Pass – unlimited weekdays with three Christmas week blackouts* Indy Pass – 2 days with 24 holiday and Saturday blackouts* Indy Plus Pass – 2 days with no blackoutsClosest neighboring ski areas: Chester Bowl (1:44), Loch Lomond (1:48), Spirit Mountain (1:54), Giants Ridge (1:57), Mt. Baldy (2:11)Base elevation: 800 feetSummit elevation: 1,688 feetVertical drop: 1,088 feet (825 feet lift-served)Skiable Acres: 1,000Average annual snowfall: 120 inchesTrail count: 95 (10% expert, 25% most difficult, 47% more difficult, 18% easiest)Lift count: 7 (1 eight-passenger gondola, 2 high-speed six-packs, 3 double chairs, 1 carpet)View historic Lutsen Mountains trailmaps on skimap.org.Why I interviewed himI often claim that Vail and Alterra have failed to appreciate Midwest skiing. I realize that this can be confusing. Vail Resorts owns 10 ski areas from Missouri to Ohio. Alterra's Ikon Pass includes a small but meaningful presence in Northern Michigan. What the hell am I talking about here?Lutsen, while a regional standout and outlier, illuminates each company's blind spots. In 2018, the newly formed Alterra Mountain Company looted the motley M.A.X. Pass roster for its best specimens, adding them to its Ikon Pass. Formed partly from the ashes of Intrawest, Alterra kept all of their own mountains and cherry-picked the best of Boyne and Powdr, leaving off Boyne's Michigan mountains, Brighton, Summit at Snoqualmie, and Cypress (which Ikon later added); and Powdr's Boreal, Lee Canyon, Pico, and Bachelor (Pico and Bachelor eventually made the team). Alterra also added Solitude and Crystal after purchasing them later in 2018, and, over time, Windham and Alyeska. Vail bought Triple Peaks (Crested Butte, Okemo, Sunapee), later that year, and added Resorts of the Canadian Rockies to its Epic Pass. But that left quite a few orphans, including Lutsen and sister mountain Granite Peak, which eventually joined the Indy Pass (which didn't debut until 2019).All of which is technocratic background to set up this question: what the hell was Alterra thinking? In Lutsen and Granite Peak, Alterra had, ready to snatch, two of the largest, most well-cared-for, most built-up resorts between Vermont and Colorado. Midwest Family Ski Resorts CEO Charles Skinner is one of the most aggressive and capable ski area operators anywhere. These mountains, with their 700-plus-foot vertical drops, high-speed lifts, endless glade networks, and varied terrain deliver a big-mountain experience that has more in common with a mid-sized New England ski area than anything within several hundred miles in any direction. It's like someone in a Colorado boardroom and a stack of spreadsheets didn't bother looking past the ZIP Codes when deciding what to keep and what to discard.This is one of the great miscalculations in the story of skiing's shift to multimountain pass hegemony. By overlooking Lutsen Mountains and Granite Peak in its earliest days, Alterra missed an opportunity to snatch enormous volumes of Ikon Pass sales across the Upper Midwest. Any Twin Cities skier (and there are a lot of them), would easily be able to calculate the value of an Ikon Pass that could deliver 10 or 14 days between Skinner's two resorts, and additional days on that mid-winter western run. By dismissing the region, Alterra also enabled the rise of the Indy Pass, now the only viable national multi-mountain pass product for the Midwestern skier outside of Michigan's Lower Peninsula. These sorts of regional destinations, while not as “iconic” as, say, Revelstoke, move passes; the sort of resort-hopping skier who is attracted to a multi-mountain pass is going to want to ski near home as much as they want to fly across the country.Which is a formula Vail Resorts, to its credit, figured out a long time ago. Which brings us back to those 10 Midwestern ski areas hanging off the Epic Pass attendance sheet. Vail has, indeed, grasped the utility of the Midwestern, city-adjacent day-ski area, and all 10 of its resorts fit neatly into that template: 75 chairlifts on 75 vertical feet with four trees seated within 10 miles of a city center. But here's what they missed: outside of school groups; Park Brahs who like to Park Out, Brah; and little kids, these ski areas hold little appeal even to Midwesterners. That they are busy beyond comprehension at all times underscores, rather than refutes, that point – something simulating a big-mountain experience, rather than a street riot, is what the frequent Midwest skier seeks.For that, you have to flee the cities. Go north, find something in the 400- to 600-foot vertical range, something with glades and nooks and natural snow. Places like Caberfae, Crystal Mountain, Nub's Nob, and Shanty Creek in Michigan; Cascade, Devil's Head, and Whitecap, Wisconsin; Giants Ridge and Spirit Mountain, Minnesota. Lutsen is the best of all of these, a sprawler with every kind of terrain flung across its hundreds of acres. A major ski area. A true resort. A Midwestern dream.Vick and I discuss the Ikon snub in the podcast. It's weird. And while Alterra, five years later, is clearly doing just fine, its early decision to deliberately exclude itself from one of the world's great ski regions is as mystifying a strategic choice as I've seen any ski company make. Vail, perhaps, understands the Midwest resort's true potential, but never found one it could close on – there aren't that many of them, and they aren't often for sale. Perhaps they dropped a blank check on Skinner's desk, and he promptly deposited it into the nearest trashcan.All of which is a long way of saying this: Lutsen is the best conventional ski area in the Midwest (monster ungroomed Mount Bohemia is going to hold more appeal for a certain sort of expert skier), and one of the most consistently excellent ski operations in America. Its existence ought to legitimize the region to national operators too bent on dismissing it. Someday, they will understand that. And after listening to this podcast, I hope that you will, too.What we talked aboutWhy Lutsen never makes snow in October; Minnesota as early-season operator; the new Raptor Express six-pack; why the Bridge double is intact but retiring from winter operations; why Lutsen removed the 10th Mountain triple; why so many Riblet chairs are still operating; why Moose Return trail will be closed indefinitely; potential new lower-mountain trails on Eagle Mountain; an updated season-opening plan; how lake-effect snow impacts the west side of Lake Superior; how the Raptor lift may impact potential May operations; fire destroys Papa Charlie's; how it could have been worse; rebuilding the restaurant; Lutsen's long evolution from backwater to regional leader and legit western alternative; the Skinner family's aggressive operating philosophy; the history of Lutsen's gondola, the only such machine in Midwest skiing; Lutsen's ambitious but stalled masterplan; potential Ullr and Mystery mountain chairlift upgrades; “the list of what skiers want is long”; why Lutsen switched to a multi-mountain season pass with Granite Peak and Snowriver; and “if we would have been invited into the Ikon at the start, we would have jumped on that.”Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewFor all my gushing above, Lutsen isn't perfect. While Granite Peak has planted three high-speed lifts on the bump in the past 20 years, Lutsen has still largely been reliant on a fleet of antique Riblets, plus a sixer that landed a decade ago and the Midwest's only gondola, a glimmering eight-passenger Doppelmayr machine installed in 2015. While a fixed-grip foundation isn't particularly abnormal for the Midwest, which is home to probably the largest collection of antique chairlifts on the planet, it's off-brand for burnished Midwest Family Ski Resorts.Enter, this year, Lutsen's second six-pack, Raptor Express, which replaces both the 10th Mountain triple (removed), and the Bridge double (demoted to summer-only use). This new lift, running approximately 600 vertical feet parallel to Bridge, will (sort of; more below), smooth out the janky connection from Moose back to Eagle. And while the loss of 10th Mountain will mean 300 vertical feet of rambling below the steep upper-mountain shots, Raptor is a welcome upgrade that will help Lutsen keep up with the Boynes.However, even as this summer moved the mountain ahead with the Raptor installation, a storm demolished a skier bridge over the river on Moose Return, carving a several-hundred-foot-wide, unbridgeable (at least in the short term), gap across the trail. Which means that skiers will have to connect back to Eagle via gondola, somewhat dampening Raptor's expected impact. That's too bad, and Vick and I talk extensively about what that means for skiers this coming winter.The final big timely piece of this interview is the abrupt cancellation of Lutsen's massive proposed terrain expansion, which would have more than doubled the ski area's size with new terrain on Moose and Eagle mountains. Here's what they were hoping to do with Moose:And Eagle:Over the summer, Lutsen withdrew the plan, and Superior National Forest Supervisor Thomas Hall recommended a “no action” alternative, citing “irreversible damage” to mature white cedar and sugar maple stands, displacement of backcountry skiers, negative impacts to the 300-mile-long Superior hiking trail, objections from Native American communities, and water-quality concerns. Lutsen had until Oct. 10 to file an objection to the decision, and they did. What happens now? we discuss that.Questions I wish I'd askedIt may have been worth getting into the difference between Lutsen's stated lift-served vertical (825 feet), and overall vertical (1,088 feet). But it wasn't really necessary, as I asked the same question of Midwest Family Ski Resorts CEO Charles Skinner two years ago. He explains the disparity at the 25:39 mark:What I got wrongI said that Boyne Mountain runs the Hemlock double chair instead of the Mountain Express six-pack for summer operations. That is not entirely true, as Mountain Express sometimes runs, as does the new Disciples 8 chair on the far side of the mountain's Sky Bridge.I referred to Midwest Family Ski Resorts CEO Charles Skinner as “Charles Skinner Jr.” He is in fact Charles Skinner IV.Why you should ski Lutsen MountainsOne of the most unexpected recurring messages I receive from Storm readers floats out of the West. Dedicated skiers of the big-mountain, big-snow kingdoms of the Rockies, they'd never thought much about skiing east of the Continental Divide. But now they're curious. All these profiles of New England girth and history, Midwest backwater bumps, and Great Lakes snowtrains have them angling for a quirky adventure, for novelty and, perhaps, a less-stressful version of skiing. These folks are a minority. Most Western skiers wear their big-mountain chauvinism as a badge of stupid pride. Which I understand. But they are missing a version of skiing that is heartier, grittier, and more human than the version that swarms from the western skies.So, to those few who peek east over the fortress walls and consider the great rolling beyond, I tell you this: go to Lutsen. If you're only going to ski the Midwest once, and only in a limited way, this is one of the few must-experience stops. Lutsen and Bohemia. Mix and match the rest. But these two are truly singular.To the rest of you, well: Midwest Family's stated goal is to beef up its resorts so that they're an acceptable substitute for a western vacation. Lutsen's website even hosts a page comparing the cost of a five-day trip there and to Breckenridge:Sure, that's slightly exaggerated, and yes, Breck crushes Lutsen in every on-mountain statistical category, from skiable acreage to vertical drop to average annual snowfall. But 800 vertical feet is about what an average skier can manage in one go anyway. And Lutsen really does give you a bigger-mountain feel than anything for a thousand miles in either direction (except, as always, the Bohemia exception). And when you board that gondy and swing up the cliffs toward Moose Mountain, you're going to wonder where, exactly, you've been transported to. Because it sure as hell doesn't look like Minnesota.Podcast NotesOn Midwest Family Ski ResortsMidwest Family Ski Resorts now owns four ski areas (Snowriver, Michigan is one resort with two side-by-side ski areas). Here's an overview:On the loss of Moose ReturnA small but significant change will disrupt skiing at Lutsen Mountains this winter: the destruction of the skier bridge at the bottom of the Moose Return trail that crosses the Poplar River, providing direct ski access from Moose to Eagle mountains. Vick details why this presents an unfixable obstacle in the podcast, but you can see that Lutsen removed the trail from its updated 2023-24 map:On the Stowe gondola I referencedI briefly referenced Stowe's gondola as a potential model for traversing the newly re-gapped Moose Return run. The resort is home to two gondolas – the 2,100-vertical-foot, 7,664-foot-long, eight-passenger Mansfield Gondola; and the 1,454-foot-long, six-passenger Over Easy Gondola, which moves between the Mansfield and Spruce bases. It is the latter that I'm referring to in the podcast: On Mt. FrontenacVick mentions that his first job was at Mt. Frontenac, a now-lost 420-vertical-foot ski area in Minnesota. Here was a circa 2000 trailmap:Apparently a local group purchased the ski area and converted it into a golf course. Boo.On the evolution of LutsenThe Skinners have been involved with Lutsen since the early 1980s. Here's a circa 1982 trailmap, which underscores the mountain's massive evolution over the decades:On the evolution of Granite PeakWhen Charles Skinner purchased Granite Peak, then known as Rib Mountain, it was a nubby little backwater, with neglected infrastructure and a miniscule footprint:And here it is today, a mile-wide broadside running three high-speed chairlifts:An absolutely stunning transformation.On Charles Skinner IIISkinner's 2021 Star Tribune obituary summarized his contributions to Lutsen and to skiing:Charles Mather Skinner III passed away on June 17th at the age of 87 in his new home in Red Wing, MN. …Charles was born in St. Louis, MO on August 30, 1933, to Eleanor Whiting Skinner and Charles Mather Skinner II. He grew up near Lake Harriet in Minneapolis where he loved racing sailboats during the summer and snow sliding adventures in the winter.At the age of 17, he joined the United States Navy and fought in the Korean War as a navigator aboard dive bombers. After his service, he returned home to Minnesota where he graduated from the University of Minnesota Law School, served on the law review, and began practicing law in Grand Rapids, MN.In 1962, he led the formation of Sugar Hills Ski and purchased Sugar Lake (Otis) Resort in Grand Rapids, MN. For 20 years, Charles pioneer-ed snowmaking inventions, collaborated with other Midwest ski area owners to build a golden age for Midwest ski areas, and advised ski areas across the U.S. including Aspen on snowmaking.In the 1970s, Scott Paper Company recruited Charles to manage recreational lands across New England, and later promoted him to become President of Sugarloaf Mountain ski area in Maine. In 1980, he bought, and significantly expanded, Lutsen Mountains in Lutsen, MN, which is now owned and operated by his children.He and his wife spent many happy years on North Captiva Island, Florida, where they owned and operated Barnacle Phil's Restaurant. An entrepreneur and risk-taker at heart, he never wanted to retire and was always looking for new business ventures.His work at Sugar Hills, Lutsen Mountains and North Captive Island helped local economics expand and thrive.He was a much-respected leader and inspiration to thousands of people over the years. Charles was incredibly intellectually curious and an avid reader, with a tremendous memory for facts and history.Unstoppable and unforgettable, he had a wonderful sense of humor and gave wise counsel to many. …On the number of ski areas on Forest Service landA huge number of U.S. ski areas operate on Forest Service land, with the majority seated in the West. A handful also sit in the Midwest and New England (Lutsen once sat partially on Forest Service land, but currently does not):On additional Midwest podcastsAs a native Midwesterner, I've made it a point to regularly feature the leaders of Midwest ski areas on the podcast. Dig into the archive:MICHIGANWISCONSINOHIOINDIANASOUTH DAKOTAThe Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 98/100 in 2023, and number 484 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane, or, more likely, I just get busy). You can also email firstname.lastname@example.org. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stormskiing.com/subscribe
Join our free Florida income properties webinar on Monday, November 27th for 5.75% mortgage rates at: GREwebinars.com Home prices are up 4.5% annually through Q3. It's the fastest growth rate in months. Three out of ten renters are now age 55+, the most ever. Older renters are good for you: lower turnover, more quiet, more savings & income, and lower regulation compared to assisted living. Overall US population growth is slowing, from 1.2% a generation ago to 0.5% today. It's expected to grow until 2080. I discuss the DOJ crackdown on the NAR and real estate commissions. 1.6 million real estate agents could lose their jobs. Apartment building rate caps have become super-expensive. One of our real estate Investment Coaches, Naresh, joins us from Florida. Naresh tells us how to get 5.75% mortgage rates on new-build Florida income property at GREwebinars.com Resources mentioned: Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/476 Join our Florida properties webinar, free, Nov. 27th at 8:30 PM ET at: www.GREwebinars.com For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments. You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review” Top Properties & Providers: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREmarketplace.com/Coach Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Keith's personal Instagram: @keithweinhold Timestamps: The housing market stats (00:02:52) Discussion about the current state of the housing market, including the 45% increase in home prices and the reasons for continued home price support. Home price appreciation forecasts (00:05:28) Talks about the predictions for future home price appreciation, with both CoreLogic and NAR expecting a 26% rise in home prices next year. The impact of older renters (00:10:08) Explains why older renters are desirable for property owners and landlords, highlighting their lower turnover rate and stability. The Aging Population and Older Renters (00:11:15) Discusses the benefits of older renters, such as lower mobility, more savings and income, and low regulation. US Population Projection and Immigration (00:12:30) Examines the projected population decline in the US by 2100 and the importance of immigration for continued growth. Housing Demand and Household Size (00:17:12) Explores the trend of fewer people living in each household and its impact on housing demand. The timestamp's title (00:22:05) Rising Costs of Rate Caps for Apartment Buildings Discussion on how the cost of rate caps for larger apartment buildings has become prohibitively expensive. The timestamp's title (00:25:23) Real Estate Market Trends and Slowdown Insights on the current state of the real estate market, including a slowdown in November and leveling off of home values and rents. The timestamp's title (00:28:28) Opportunity in Real Estate Market in 2024 Predictions for the real estate market in 2024, including a potential bottoming out of the market and a decrease in mortgage rates. The decline in home values and the health of the economy (00:32:58) Discussion on the decline in home values and the health of the economy, with reference to the 2008 financial crisis and current housing supply. Short-term rentals and the potential for a decline (00:34:14) Exploration of the decline in short-term rentals due to a decrease in travel and corporate expenses. The impact of mortgage interest rates on home prices (00:35:19) Analysis of the relationship between mortgage interest rates, economic slowdowns, and home prices, with a focus on potential rate cuts and their effects on the housing market. The Florida In-Migration Stat (00:43:53) Florida's astounding population growth and becoming the second most valuable property market in the US. The Rate Buy Down Courtesy of the Builders (00:44:23) Explaining the options of a 5.75% rate or the 2-2-4 program for property buyers in Florida. Disclaimer and Closing (00:46:02) A disclaimer about the show and a mention of the sponsor, Get Rich Education. Complete Episode Transcript: Speaker 1 (00:00:01) - Welcome to I'm your host Keith Weinhold told how price appreciation is up 4.5%, but there are signs that it is slowing down. Finally, learn more about our upcoming live event that you can join from the comfort of your own home today on get Rich education. When you want the best real estate and finance info. The modern internet experience limits your free articles access, and it's replete with paywalls. And you've got pop ups and push notifications and cookies. Disclaimers. Oh, at no other time in history has it been more vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that actually adds no hype value to your life? See, this is the golden age of quality newsletters, and I write every word of hours myself. It's got a dash of humor and it's to the point to get the letter. It couldn't be more simple text to 66866. And when you start the free newsletter, you'll also get my one hour fast real estate course completely free. It's called the Don't Quit Your Day dream letter and it wires your mind for wealth. Speaker 1 (00:01:17) - Make sure you read it text to 66866. Text 266866. Speaker 2 (00:01:29) - You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. Speaker 1 (00:01:45) - We're going to go from Roxbury, Connecticut to Roxbury, Wisconsin, and across 188 nations worldwide. This is get rich education. I'm Keith Weinhold, GRE founder host of this very show since 2014, longtime real estate investor and Forbes Real Estate Council member. In fact, check out my latest article in Forbes for my work in research on the housing market. What we do here is by investment property with the bank's money, pay the debt with the tenants money, and then well, that's about it. In a sense. We enjoy life mostly. There will be some bumps along the way. The devil is in the details. Yeah, all those sus vibes that you got from the housing price apocalypse, doomsday, YouTubers. All of those vibes you had are validated by now. Just in time for a sweater weather. Respected research firm CoreLogic released their report with end of quarter housing stats nationwide. Speaker 1 (00:02:52) - Home prices still haven't fallen. There was a healthy 4.5% in September of this year compared to September of last year. Yes, these real estate numbers always run behind a little bit. Well, that 4.5% increase that even includes distressed sales. And that is the fastest growth rate in quite a few months. And again, this is primarily due to a robust job market spiked inflation and housing inventory lows that just keep scraping along the sea bottom floor. So these fundamental reasons for continued home price support, I mean, it's the same stuff I've emphasized for over two years, even as I stated prominently back on television in November of 2021. And although that was avant garde at the time, it's really not in my personality to get smug until the incessant rumors today I told you so or anything like that. Well, the highest price gains this past year. They were concentrated in places that had, I suppose, the best autumn foliage this year, that is, most northeastern states. They are the big gainers now. There were some price declines in a few places. Speaker 1 (00:04:08) - They were felt in just four western states and D.C. the four western states were Utah, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. Now, see, in the pandemic, those states prices, they stretched broader than basketball star Victor Wembanyama. And today they are mildly correcting. But back to the base case here. The 46 of 50 states which experienced appreciation oven mitts are needed to handle the three hottest states led by Maine 10%, Connecticut also at 10%, and new Jersey, with a 9% gain. And when you break that down in the metro area, it was Miami that led with soaring 8.5% appreciation. And it's interesting are core investment areas of the Midwest in southeast, which I call the stable markets. They lived up to that moniker again, they appreciated moderately during the pandemic and still appreciating moderately today. And as we approach winter, expect home price depreciation to have its seasonal slowdown. That's what tends to happen each year. In fact, there's a slowdown in sales of volume two. There are just so few homes on the market, but it has gotten really slow lately. Speaker 1 (00:05:28) - Now, I do like CoreLogic, the supplier of this information. They contribute their single family rent index to our industry. And that's so valuable because most rent data that you find out there is about apartments. CoreLogic predicts further home price appreciation over the next year of 2.6%. And similarly, the Nar. They expect home prices to rise 2.6% next year. Now, next month, you will hear me. Release gives home price appreciation forecasts right here on the show, and you're also going to learn how accurate my forecast was for this year that I made last year. Now, just last month, I made an in-person field trip to Cash Flow Country, the Midwestern United States. You've got some income property providers there that are still steadily sourcing properties to investors like you. But, you know, there are a few now where they're not even doing that lately because some providers are having trouble making the numbers work for you, the investor. Like, for example, on a single family rental that was built in the 1960s. Speaker 1 (00:06:40) - Right. A somewhat older property. Where it is commanding, say 1650 rent. And this is a real example of rehab property that I visited in the Midwest, 1650 REM. Well, these property providers can get, say, $230,000 for that property if they sell it to an owner occupant instead of an investor like you. Well, with higher interest rates on an older property, you know, 1650 rent on a 230 K purchase price. And it doesn't work so great for you as an investor, although it might on a newbuild property. So that's why a provider like that is selling to owner occupants instead of investors like you, an owner occupant, they'll pay 230 K because they don't have to make it cash flow. It's their home. So instead of selling it to an investor like you were, say 190 K is the most that it would make sense for you to pay. Well, then sure, that provider is going to get 230 K from an owner occupant, so it makes more sense for that provider to sell it to the owner occupant as well. Speaker 1 (00:07:44) - Now, one income property company that has in-house management and all that. I mean, this is a company that then is set up to serve investors. What they've done though is currently they're selling about 80% to retail homeowners, owner occupants in just 20% to turnkey real estate investors. For just that reason, owner occupants can pay more for it because of what's going on in the cycle. So in that particular Midwestern market, either mortgage interest rates must come down or rents must rise in order for it to make sense to you as an investor again. Now, later in the show today, you'll soon see that we've effectively found a way to make interest rates go back in time a couple of years when they were low, and how you can apply them to new Build income property. Today you'll learn exactly what that rate is, and this is fairly exciting. But yes, everyone wants to know where are mortgage rates going to go. And no one I mean absolutely no one knows where rates will go. Not your mortgage loan officer, not Janet Yellen, not your property provider. Speaker 1 (00:08:55) - They don't know where mortgage rates are going to go, not the president of the United States, not Charlie Ridge, not a real estate agent, not Ron DeSantis and not me. No one knows where rates are going, of course. But we did learn something just about ten days ago. Fed Chair Jerome Powell said he's not confident. Those were his words in quotes, not confident that policymakers have done enough to curb inflation. Well, that right there. That is what is known as a hawkish comment in fed vernacular. If they haven't done enough to curb inflation, then that is what has renewed fears of more interest rate increases. Now your investment properties next tenant might be a grandparent with a flip phone. Roughly three out of ten renter households are now headed by people age 55 plus. After bottoming out in 2004, older renters have become a major share of the tenant population today, and I share this with you recently. If you're a reader of Art, Don't Quit Your Day Dream letter. And by the way, welcome to all of our new letter readers. Speaker 1 (00:10:08) - We recently had a few thousand new Don't Quit Your Adrian Letter subscribers, our weekly email newsletter. Welcome here to the podcast. Now as I'll explain why in a moment you should like and embrace older renters. Now, first things first. Understand that as a property owner or landlord, you cannot age discriminate in your advertising or in your tenant screening. But all right, once you're done poking fun at their jitterbug or their track phone, understand that older renters, they are desirable. And by the way, our jitter, bugs and track phones still made us think that at least one of those two phone models is still made. At least one of them is a flip phone. Not completely sure, but anyway, yes, now that we know that there are more older renters here, about 3 in 10 American renters now age 55 plus, okay, older renters, hey, they really are desirable for a bunch of reasons. You're going to have lower turnover. Okay? Older people tend to stay put. There's a low transient rate. Speaker 1 (00:11:15) - They have a low mobility rate. That's another way to say it. Also all the renters, they tend to be more quiet. They're less likely to throw three keg ragers no beer pong, no headbutt dents in the drywall. And when it comes to savings and income, they have more of it and expect low regulation. Unlike something like assisted living, there is no special government permitting or any specialized staff that's needed. So. There are some big reasons why this growing group of older renters that is good for you as an income property owner. So to review what you've learned, that's due to lower mobility. They're more quiet, they have more savings in income and there's low regulation. And I'm going to say that personally, I've come to appreciate my older friends more as time goes on. And I recently realized that I have some of my best conversations with them. But they won't talk me into the jitterbug. They can't talk me into giving up my life without Instagram on an iPhone. Many older adults, they don't want the hassle of homeownership and others they are just feeling the weight of dreadful homebuyer affordability, just like everyone else. Speaker 1 (00:12:30) - And one major reason for why there are more older renters. If you're trying to find a reason why it's not due to some seismic behavioral shift, it's just the simple fact that the American population keeps getting older overall. Overall, we have an aging population. And by the way, is 55 that old? I mean, the 55 plus age group, that can mean a lot of things. And 85 year old and 55 year old lived very different lives with different activity levels, of course. But is 55 that old? I don't know, I know that you only need to be age 50 to be an AARP member. I guess 55 sounds old, because you can say that you're pretty likely to be in the second half of your life, but maybe if you divide life up into thirds, you could say then that 55 is in the middle third, and then therefore 55 could be seen as middle aged and not old, I suppose. And for some reason, it's systemic in American culture that people don't seem to want to be called old for whatever reason. Speaker 1 (00:13:35) - It has a mildly pejorative connotation, but it is a group of people with their own separate habits, and these people are more likely to be using trekking poles when they go hiking, I guess. And I don't agree that age is just a number. I mean, come on, age means something in 85 year old men. They are not going to qualify to play in the NBA All-Star game. They're not going to be the most agile defensive back on an NFL field. So that takeaway here is that more renters are older. Embrace it. It's good if you're a listener but still don't have our valuable don't quit your day dream letter, which wires your mind for wealth, and it updates you on real estate trends. You can get it for free right now. Just text message group to 66866. That's green to 66866. We've been talking about the aging population here on get Rich education episode 476. All right. But how about the overall US population trend. This is something that you might have seen elsewhere since it transcends real estate. Speaker 1 (00:14:46) - But I'll give you my real estate take on it too. All right. So the latest Census Bureau figures, they show that the US population is projected to contract to shrink by the year 2100, which would be only the second decline in the nation's history. And the other decline occurred in the 1918 Spanish flu and World War one. For those reasons, annual population growth rates, they have dropped from about 1.2% a generation ago to just one half of 1% today, and the culprits are declining birth rates and that aforementioned aging population. All right. The US has the world's third biggest population, and it could be demoted to fourth or fifth by Pakistan or Nigeria as soon as the middle of this century. So this anticipated population contraction, that means that immigration could become vital for any hopes of continued growth. And yet understand the US is still growing faster than a lot of other high income nations like Japan and Italy, that are already losing population. All right, so the US population is projected to shrink by 2100. Speaker 1 (00:16:02) - The more important thing for you to remember as a real estate investor that's going to need a population to drive demand, is that our population is still expected to grow every year until about the year 2080 by most every model out there. So still 50 to 60 years of population growth. And then it isn't until later 2100 that is expected to decline. And of course, birth rates and immigration rates are bigger unknowns than the death rate out there in the future. Just estimating how soon our population is going to peak, but it's going to be a. While many decades. And then, of course, even in 50, 60 years, if the overall American population stops growing. All right, well, it'll probably still grow in some regions. And, you know, I wonder if Florida will still be growing late this century. It seems like it never stops there with population growth. And also it's not just about overall population growth when it comes to housing demand. It's how people choose to live within a certain population growth rate. Speaker 1 (00:17:12) - Okay, with a population of 100, if there are two people per household, well, they can be housed with 50 homes, but if there is just one person per household, well then it's going to take 100 homes to house those same 100 people, no longer 50 homes. All right. And one trend that's made for surging American housing demand is that you have fewer people living in each household. That's how people choose to live today. So keep that in mind. You see a small half of 1% annual growth rate in more recent years, but there are a lot of numbers behind the numbers. Now, you might wonder what I think about the federal jury that recently found the National Association of Realtors and large brokerages, and how they conspire to keep commissions artificially high. What's that really mean? Well, what it means is more flexibility for buyers. I mean, under the current system, sellers pay their own agents commission of roughly 5 to 6%, and then that 5 to 6% that's shared with the buyer's agent. Speaker 1 (00:18:18) - Well, if sellers now get billion from paying buyer's agents, well, then buyers would have to start to pay their own agent if they choose to use one. And a buyer could do that at either a flat rate or an hourly rate. But first time homebuyers, they could really feel the crunch, or that could become a bigger issue for those wannabe first time homebuyers that are having a hard time amassing the savings to pay for an agent on top of their down payment and their closing costs. Just another whammy for those wannabe first time homebuyers. They keep getting beaten down, and that's what could put some upward pressure on rents. But I don't think it would really be much as a result of that alone. And another consequence of this is that there would be less commission paid by sellers. I mean, the way it works is that in order to advertise a listing on the database, the MLS, the Multiple Listing Service, are that MLS that populates real estate websites like Zillow and Redfin? Well, in order for that to happen, sellers in most markets they have to agree to pay the buyer's agent's commission as well as their own sellers agents commission. Speaker 1 (00:19:31) - Well, that's the practice that could be scrapped and that could spell trouble for real estate agents. A lot of people have estimated that $30 billion could potentially leave the industry, and some estimate that 1.6 million agents could lose their jobs. See, the way that the system had worked in the past is that one reason that the seller pays the entire 5 to 6% commission for both sides is because it's usually easy for them to do that, since sellers are the ones that have the equity in their property and the buyers often don't. So this could make homeownership even more difficult to qualify for. I mean, if first time homebuyers already had to jump over a four foot hurdle, now it's perhaps a five foot hurdle if this all happens. But there are still legal battles ongoing there in the real estate agent commissions case. Now, as I've talked about before, with this American housing shortage, it's the affordable housing segment that has high demand and is so drastically undersupplied. Now just get this understand that from 2019 until today, the price of a new car rose 22%, the price of a median home rose 42%. Speaker 1 (00:20:54) - And the mobile home price, which is about the most affordable option for housing that rose by a giant 58%. I mean, wow, that is a testament to the major housing shortage at the affordable price points. That really, really spells it out. And if you're confident that the long term play is to provide good, affordable housing like we are here at, you know, there are more reasons to look at loading up on properties like duplexes and triplexes. And for plex's where you can get fixed rates now. And if you wanted to, you could refinance to long term fixed rates later. Now to buy a rate cap for a larger apartment building. That has just balloon in expense for you? Yes, a rate cap buying the what's basically like insurance you buy that puts a ceiling on how high your interest rate can go on larger apartment buildings. You don't have to do that with 1 to 4 unit property. You can just get fixed rate certainty. Now, a couple years ago, rate caps for large apartment buildings, they were pretty affordable. Speaker 1 (00:22:05) - They were inexpensive. It took 40 K, 50 or 100 K to ensure that your rate wouldn't adjust too high. And then once it did, of course the rate cap insurance would kick in. But that same rate cap this year could be nearly $1 million. Yeah. See, a couple years ago, the $10 million loan, you could have bought a 2% rate cap for 60 to 75 K in three years coverage. Well, if you'd want to extend that this year, just a one year renewal, you could probably spend 350 K. Well, that has become prohibitively expensive for a lot of larger apartment buildings. And coming up, one of our in-house investment coaches in the race is going to be joining us from Florida, where they're building new construction duplexes and for plex's affordably. And they're selling them to investors like us at just a 5.75% interest rate. That's straight ahead. I'm Keith Winfield, you're listening to get Rich education. Jerry, listeners can't stop talking about their service from Ridge Lending Group and MLS. Speaker 1 (00:23:18) - 42056. They've provided our tribe with more loans than anyone. They're truly a top lender for beginners and veterans. It's where I go to get my own loans for single family rental property up to four plex. So start your prequalification and you can chat with President Charlie Ridge. Personally, though, even deliver your custom plan for growing your real estate portfolio. Start at Ridge Lending Group. You know, I'll just tell you, for the most passive part of my real estate investing, personally, I put my own dollars with Freedom Family Investments because their funds pay me a stream of regular cash flow in returns are better than a bank savings account up to 12%. Their minimums are as low as 25 K. You don't even need to be accredited for some of them. It's all backed by real estate. And I kind of love how the tax benefit of doing this can offset capital gains in your W-2 jobs income. They've always given me exactly their stated return paid on time. So it's steady income, no surprises while I'm sleeping or just doing the things I love. Speaker 1 (00:24:29) - For a little insider tip, I've invested in their power fund to get going on that text family to 66866. Oh, and this isn't a solicitation. If you want to invest where I do, just go ahead and text family to six, 686, six. This is Rich dad advisor Tom Wheelwright. Listen to get Rich education with Keith Reinhold and don't quit your daydream. It's always valuable for you, the listener and me as well. To have a market discussion with one of our in-house investment coaches were doing that today. Naresh, welcome back onto the show. Speaker 3 (00:25:23) - Is Keith looking forward to talking? Speaker 1 (00:25:26) - Let us know what's happening from your view. I mean, give us your perspective on the real estate market today and any drivers or trends. Speaker 3 (00:25:35) - Look, Keith, I've been working as a real estate investment coach for about four and a half years now. I've been a real estate investor for about six and a half years. I've been working with for two years now, and it's great because it's almost like I'm a leading indicator on what's going on with inflation, what's going on with the housing market, because I see it in front of my eyes in real time. Speaker 3 (00:26:02) - I have it on my spreadsheets that are in front of me. Of all the different properties that were sold or inquiries that we get from clients right now, I am actually seeing a slowdown this month of November compared to the first ten days or the first 20 days of the previous month. There's definitely somewhat of a slowdown. We're getting more complaints or nagging from clients saying, oh, I'm not able to rent out my property for as much as I thought I'd be able to, or my property's been vacant for longer than usual. What this is telling me key is, at least in my state, look, home values vary based on geography. We know that home values are like the weather. The weather is not the same everywhere. For the most part, I think you're going to see that national home values peaked a month or two ago. Rents certainly peaked about two months ago. What I mean by that is we saw rents go up precipitous just going up, up, up since January 2021 nonstop. And they finally peaked. Speaker 3 (00:27:17) - And when I say peak home values, peak rents don't mean that they've crashed. I don't mean that they've gone down. They've just peaked and leveled off. So I haven't seen a decline in rents. I haven't seen a decline in home values from two months ago. I'm just saying they've leveled off. And so I actually expect this inflation or I expect inflation CPI moving forward to go back down. I know that we did see a blip up for a few months, but I think we're going to start seeing things go back down as the fed old rate study appears. They're done raising for good, and they're just going to ride it out with how it is currently. And then once unemployment crosses, probably 4.5%, if at all, that does cross 4.5%, that's when they're going to start cutting. If unemployment crosses 4%, then they're probably just going to wait it out until inflation hits that 2% target. And so what does this all mean for real estate. What does this mean for interest rates. Low interest rates I've talked about peaks. Speaker 3 (00:28:28) - We saw peak mortgage rates. Also it looks like mortgage rates peaked. And they've slowly crept back down not significantly to a point where as an investor you're like, oh let me jump in. No. But think we saw mortgage rates as well. So again, what does this all mean. This means 2024. We're almost a month away from 2024. I think it's going to be a great opportunity to jump in, because you'll be able to catch the real estate market that's going to hit some type of bottom in 2024. You're going to see mortgage rates go back down in 2024. That also means today because remember, Keith, I've come on your show before talking about incentives that providers who we work with, partners who we know personally and who we've worked with for many, many years, we've been offering incentives that make up for this high inflation, that make up for the higher interest rates. And those incentives are very likely going to be gone in 2024 as mortgage rates go back down, as the home values maybe decline slightly. Speaker 1 (00:29:39) - We want to talk about some of those incentives later, about how providers are buying down the interest rate for you on rental property, but rates, I think perhaps the most interesting thing you said, the thing that I didn't expect is that you're talking to some investors out there where they're telling you about how they have more or longer vacancies than they had expected. I didn't think that I would hear that from you. Is that a pretty small sample size, or is that passed by apartments versus single family homes or entry level versus luxury or anything else? Speaker 3 (00:30:13) - I'm talking about single homes, so can't speak for apartments. I'm talking about cookie cutter, entry level, single family homes. This is in multiple different markets. So not just in one city. This is in multiple cities states. We're seeing vacancies. We're seeing, like I said, the rent growth rate that was previously being used six months ago, eight months ago, the property managers have had to use a lower rate because there's been a decline. So it's not surprising. Speaker 3 (00:30:44) - There's just no way that the country would would have been able to survive with rents going up the way they were going up with home values going up the way that we're going up. So there was bound to be a stoppage. And so we've seen that stoppage in home values, we've seen that stoppage in rents. And when I say stoppage again, not a decline in rents, not a significant decline in home values. But they leveled off from their peaks. And that's just how the business cycle works. Every 30 years or so when we see super high inflation, it's not surprising that I'm seeing this. But this is what's going on in the market right now, from Florida to Tennessee and Alabama to Ohio, in Missouri, Kansas City. Speaker 1 (00:31:31) - For about five months in a row now, we have seen wages be higher than inflation. But of course that's just stated CPI inflation. And then there is quite a lag effect there too. If wages do exceed inflation, when will that eventually catch up to higher rents? We don't really know. Speaker 1 (00:31:50) - But one thing we do know over the long term is rents are historically very, very stable, even more stable than home prices. It was so unusual when rents were up about 15% year over year, a year or two ago. You don't typically see that rents tend to stay stable, and they sure are stabilizing lately. What do you have any other thoughts as you look around the market and race? Because you often talk to our followers in there, they get a hold of you for you to help lead them through contracts and connect them with the right properties and providers that can meet their goals. So what are our followers asking about? Speaker 3 (00:32:27) - Our followers right now are fearful, which is very common. Fear always rules people's minds and they're fearful of a crash. And look, there are certain real estate asset classes, commercial real estate, which you've talked about for a while, is going through a decline right now and could be going through a major crash as many of these commercial real estate owners default on their mortgages or their loans, their commercial loans, there is a concern that there could be a crash in the housing market. Speaker 3 (00:32:58) - Meredith Whitney, who really famous real estate banker, I believe the only woman to call the 2008 financial crisis. She called it back in seven. Meredith Whitney came out a couple of weeks ago and said, there's going to be a decline in home values, and I'm here to tell you that there has been a classic line on values. And will that continue? It could continue where there's a, again, a slight decline. So don't see a crash coming. The reason is because I feel like the economy, the banks are much healthier today than they were. And let's say at 2007, the people who have been laid off, we're going to see unemployment continue to go up. It's not the 10% plus that we saw during the pandemic or the really we reached close to that 2008, 2009 or so. I just don't see something systemic to where there's going to be a housing market crash. And it's all about supply. Housing supply is still very low. So until the supply catches up to the demand, think the real estate market is going to stay healthy. Speaker 3 (00:34:14) - And if you're looking to buy an old over a 30 year period, if you're looking to buy and rent for cashflow, it's still a great time. Right now, there's just certain asset classes. Like I said, commercial real estate. Maybe wait for the crash. They're short term rentals. The worst time to get into short term rentals would have been a year or one and a half years ago, 18 to 20 months ago. That space has declined because there has been a decline in travel, leisure, airfare, corporate expenses, the corporate trips. There has been a decline. So we don't promote those often. They're available. What? We don't promote them often, but that's another asset class that could be ripe for, I want to say, a crash, but a big decline when it comes to cookie cutter, entry level Single-Family homes. I just don't see this huge crash that people have been waiting for over the last 15 years. Speaker 1 (00:35:13) - Right. As you know, I've talked extensively about how it's virtually impossible for that to happen. Speaker 1 (00:35:19) - And yes, everyone wants to know what's coming. It surely has been a consensus among analysts and others that mortgage interest rates have peaked and or the fed funds rate is done increasing in this cycle. Many seem to think that next year, if rates come down, that that is really going to push home prices through the roof. I don't know if that's necessarily true, because typically a cutting of rates coincides with an economic slowdown or a recession. So I think a cutting of rates next year that could result in a moderate price increase. But of course, we have to remember that some of that supply is going to come once rates go down, you will have a few more people motivated to sell. You also have a lot more people motivated to buy and that can qualify as well. But the rates think a lot of people really in this cycle lately, when they've seen higher mortgage interest rates maybe than some people have seen in their entire investment life, you know, they feel like they kind of want to get some sort of break, but they sort of want to wait and see what happens with the market. Speaker 1 (00:36:20) - But we actually have something to talk about here where they can get a break. They don't have to wait and see with what's going on in the market. And that's with what is taking place in Florida. Speaker 3 (00:36:33) - That's exactly what's taking place in Florida. We work with a provider who is going to be on with us. We're hosting a webinar with them about a special 5.75% interest rate. The lowest interest rate that we see across the board with any provider we work with from Alabama to Texas, etcetera. So they're coming on our webinar. They're going to promote and discuss that 5.75% program that they have, as well as a 2 to 4 program. That's two years of free property management, 2% closing cost credit into $4,000 release fee. You might say, well, why do I need a $4,000 release a credit? Because their best properties or highest cash flowing properties. Highest returning properties are quads and duplexes. So these are huge breaks that will reduce the amount of money you need to bring to close and look. If you're a high net worth or if you're a high income earner sucking it up and paying the 9% interest rate today. Speaker 3 (00:37:37) - If that's what you decide to opt for with the 224 program, 9% interest rate, or 8% interest rate today, it'll save you on your taxes, the mortgage interest tax deductible, and in 5 or 6 years, you can just refinance, most likely at an ultra low rate, maybe even sooner than that. So still, there are some really good deals. If you work through us, then we can help you find some really, really good programs and incentives so that it's like going back to 2020 or 2021, when interest rates were super low, or when there was less cash that you had for bringing to the same level. So we have that definitely recommend that people check out this webinar. It's great webinars. Com you can register for it over there. webinars.com. I'm going to be on it's Monday November 27th. That's Monday, November 27th at 8:30 p.m. Eastern Time. So people on the West Coast can finish up work, attend the event. People on the East Coast can finish up dinner, put their kids to sleep and attend the event. Speaker 3 (00:38:43) - So I look forward to seeing everybody there. It's a special, special webinar, special deals, special promotions only through the average education. Speaker 1 (00:38:54) - So the 5.75% rate, if I remember from previously narration, it's a ten year fixed rate and a 30 year amortization at those terms. And then is one choosing between the 5.75 rate and the 224 plan that you described. Is it one or the other? Can you get. Speaker 3 (00:39:12) - One or the other? It's one or the other. Because to get that 5.75% rate, yeah, the builder is paying the lender a lot of money. And to lower those points, they're buying points to to get you the investor that rate. So it's one or the other. And by the way, that 224 program the purchase price is negotiable. So that's also why I like that 2 to 4 program. Because you can go back and forth and I can help you out negotiate the price, maybe shape 10 to 15 maybe $20,000 if it's a high ticket item off the purchase price. So makes the numbers look even better. Speaker 3 (00:39:54) - That's my favorite program, the 5.75% program. That might be right for some other people, so that's fair to. Speaker 1 (00:40:02) - Else about the property prices and types. Speaker 3 (00:40:06) - So this provider we work with has single families, duplexes, four plex quads all available. The price points are anywhere from $250,000 to $800,000. Everything is new construction. That's also in flux, as in the single family is just cash flowing much. So I would say go for a duplex or a quad. Duplexes are around $400,000, give or take 20,000 over under, and quads are somewhere between 650 to $800,000. Speaker 1 (00:40:45) - Okay, so these are brand new build properties in Florida. So yeah we're talking about entry level rental homes here. The asset type that seems to have the greatest dearth of supply in housing, entry level single family homes. You just have such a good chance to own an in-demand asset that everyone is going to want over time here. Do you have any last thoughts about this webinar trace, which you're going to help put on for people? That way the participants can ask you questions. Speaker 1 (00:41:16) - They can ask the provider questions, any question they want to, things about the physical property, things about just how they bought down your rate to 5.75% for you, or how they can do the 224 program for you. Those are some of the benefits of attending. You can have your question answered in real time there with narration. Do you have any last thoughts about this event that's taking place on Monday? The 27? Speaker 3 (00:41:39) - Well, you definitely want to register at Jerry webinars. Jerry webinars. We already have more than 50 people registered and now this episode is out. I'm sure we're going to get another 100 or so. Like you said, people can come on and ask some questions, actually talk to us, interact with us. Last time they wanted to these webinars, it went like 2.5 hours. People were having such a great time. We went into the wee hours of the night just talking to all sorts of folks, answering questions. It's super interactive, really educational. The best part is completely free and you get goodies and perks and incentives back in return for ten. Speaker 1 (00:42:17) - Now, look, I know that some of these incentives have got to sound terrific to you, the listener and viewer here. I just want to pull back and take a look at things. More fundamentally. This is truly investing. This is not speculating. You own a piece of Florida land in a house constructed of commodities. On top of that land, from wood to steel to concrete. You already know about Florida's In-migration. We've talked about that at nauseam on the show here, and it's not speculative because you're purchasing something for rent production, not a speculative endeavor. Over the long term, people will pay you in order to live in a property that you provide to them. I mean, this is the sort of thing where you could even if say, you have a spouse or a mother that has nothing to do with real estate knowledge, they don't know anything about it. You can explain this to your spouse or your mother and they would understand. So it's easy to understand where your income comes from. Speaker 1 (00:43:12) - It's really fundamental. I don't know how long the 5.75% rates are going to last, because this same provider had a lower rate a few months ago. I told you then I didn't know how long it was going to last and it didn't last. Now it's 5.75%, which is still a great rate. I really encourage you. Sign up. It's free. It's our live event next Monday night, the 27th at 8:30 p.m. eastern, 530 Pacific. Again, you can email@example.com. What a great update in race. Thanks so much for coming back into the show. Speaker 3 (00:43:46) - Thanks, skeet. Speaker 1 (00:43:53) - If you're unsure about making it on the live event on the 27th, but it interests you, sign up and we might be able to get you access to the replay, but you want to watch it soon because the properties available are limited. And again, I don't know how long the 5.75% rate will last. You think you've heard every amazing Florida In-migration stat by now? Well perhaps not. In the latest year over year, Florida saw 740,000 people moved there. Speaker 1 (00:44:23) - Yeah, basically three quarters of a million in just one year. That is truly astounding. That's clearly the most of any state in the country. And with all the growth, Florida's property market became recently the second most valuable in the US last year that bumped New York down to third place. That's according to Zillow. So this population growth is leading to a prosperity increase in the value of Florida property. So I think a lot of people get focused on these things, like wondering if the fed will raise rates another quarter point at their next meeting, and if that's going to show up in mortgage rates. And they wonder about the mortgage market in the future, and it feels like something that you cannot control. But now you can with this rate, buy down courtesy of the builders. So joining us on the webinar to learn all about it. Again, it's all new build and we make that really clear and spell it out for you. In next week's live event, you get to select from one of the two options. Speaker 1 (00:45:29) - To make it clear here, either a 5.75% rate or the 224 program, which means two years of free property management, 2% of the purchase price and closing cost credit, and a $4,000 lease up fee credit. Sign up. It's free. It's our live event next Monday night, the 27th at 8:30 p.m. eastern at 530 Pacific. Register at GRC webinars dot com. Until next week. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold. Don't quit your day. Great. Speaker 4 (00:46:02) - Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get Rich education LLC exclusively. Speaker 1 (00:46:30) - The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building. Get rich education.
2023 marks Ifdakar's 16th year together. What started as a high school friends jam session has evolved into an undeniable force in the Midwestern original music scene. Known for their high energy live shows and massive catalog of unique and engaging material, the Appleton based rock group has cemented their legacy as original music trailblazers with a decade and a half's worth of boundary pushing sonic exploration under their belt. Jon and Zach from Ifdarkar will be joining us for a live interview November 25th, 2023 from 9-10am CST on WCZR Code Zero Radio's Fox Cities Core. You can listen via the station or watch via the YouTube page. On the Web: ifdakar.com You can listen in via WCZR Code Zero Radio (live.CodeZeroRadio.com) or tune into the Fox Cities Core Youtube page. Code Zero Radio is an independent streaming rock station broadcasting out of Appleton, WI. Listen on the website or anywhere using your smart speaker. If you'd like to support what I'm doing consider buying me a coffee: www.buymeacoffee.com/FoxCitiesCore --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/foxcitiescore/message
Julie Mirlicourtois has always been digging for truth, even before she met God. For most of her life, Julie has been “spiritual but not religious” but after a series of events following her move to Houston, she couldn't deny God's existence and His plan for her life. Her latest project, Across, is a four-part docuseries following three women and their children who escaped abuse and violence in Honduras and Guatemala, and the Midwestern church that experienced a complete transformation in their hearts when they stopped seeing these families as news headlines and started treating them like brothers and sisters in Christ.Watch the full documentary here: https://www.acrossdocumentary.com/The Significant Women podcast is full of personal stories, dynamic hope, and sage wisdom from women who have gleaned all that they can from the ordinary days of an uncommon life. They aren't significant because of their fame or success…they are significant because Jesus is in the details of their lives.Connect with Carol McLeod at https://www.carolmcleodministries.com/
Ever wondered why the U.S. mortgage market offers 30-year, fixed-rate mortgages and what impact this unique loan offering has on housing prices? This is a question that host Maiclaire Bolton Smith and CoreLogic Professional Economist Thom Malone dive into during part two of this episode on the differences between the U.S. and international housing markets.From the surprising benefits of the U.S. system for homeowners to the potential hazards in concentrating mortgage risk, this conversation explores the effects of inflation on housing prices, drawing connections to global trends. Stay tuned until the end for insights into if and where property markets will experience shifts in the upcoming months. To continue the conversation and connect the dots between interest rates, inflation and housing prices, make sure to tune into Episode 60 as well.In This Episode1:04 – What are the advantages/disadvantages of the U.S.'s 30-year, fixed-rate mortgage system?2:56 – How do interest rate increases affect housing prices in other countries?5:46 – Are there specific U.S. markets where we're seeing the potential for people to default on their mortgages?8:20 – How does the national cycle of housing price change express itself? (Hint: like a waterfall)10:50 – Are international markets seeing similar home price trends to the U.S.?12:11 – Erika Stanley reviews natural catastrophes and extreme weather events across the globe.13:51 – What can we expect to see from home prices in the next few months?Links:Read CoreLogic IntelligenceRegister for INTRCONNECT 2024Hazard HQ Command CentralTM natural disaster coverageMore First-Time Homebuyers Reside in Midwestern and High-Tech Coastal MetrosThom Malone author pageUp Next: Why US Property Retains Its Value Compared to Other Global MarketsFind full episodes with all our guests in our podcast archive here: https://clgx.co/3zqhBZt
Here are all the great shows going down this weekend: First Wrestling Revolver 11/16 Next ICW Milwaukee p 11/17 MIW 11/17 CSW 11/17 Asylum Wrestling Revolution o 11/17 BCW 11/18 Crash Tested Wrestling 11/18 SSW 11/18 Zero1 11/18 ZOWA 11/18 St Anarchy 11/18 ICW No Hold Barred 11/18 Independent Pro Wrestling 11/18 Zero1 11/18 AWF 11/18 Super Shogun Wrestling 11/18 Paradise City 11/18 Southland 11/18 Black Label Pro 11/18 Freelance underground 11/18 Iron Heart Pro Glory Pro 11/19 Make sure to follow us on all the socials and our podcast families and partners below. And highfivers make sure to Tune In and Tune out, press play and enjoy because ya know we sure as shit did. And to order tix for this ICW show, future shows or like Jerry talked aboat to order footage if you are unable to attend live. Hit up DYS at https://www.facebook.com/KurtKruegerMilwaukee Follow Jerry at https://www.facebook.com/jerry.gummo Follow the MWR Pod on Twitter https://twitter.com/MWRPod414 Join the MWR Pod Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1244836833095229/ Follow VGM at https://twitter.com/VisGlobalMedia
Dylan Kleinschmidt of Yerkes Observatory gives us a virtual tour of a truly amazing corner of Wisconsin's scientific history. The Yerkes Observatory is an old world wonder that was nearly lost to the infamous Walmart parking lots of the Midwestern economic zone, saved only by donors and preservationists alike. Become a part of it here --> https://yerkesobservatory.org/
It's time to celebrate the richness and abundance of the season…with the best part of Thanksgiving! Warm…nutty…spicy…rich…toasty…we share all our favorite Thanksgiving sides that are sure to please a crowd, regardless of whether you're hosting or joining a potluck! We're thinking about fun flavors, contrasting textures, and balancing out your overfilling plate with everything from green beans to corn pudding, to sweet potatoes, and stuffing. We're sharing our own personal traditions, and comparing and contrasting notes for what has to land on both our tables!Thanksgiving is a time to feed many mouths, as well as many traditions. We can gather our nearest and dearest, and maybe a few new friends, around a table stacked with sides that are sure to inspire deeper connections and lasting memories. ***Links to recipes and favorites from this week's show:Potato rolls via Simply Recipes Pampushky rolls by Sonya Big batch dinner rolls from King ArthurCreamed corn with saltine crackers from Tastes of Lizzy T (similar to Kari's version) Carla Lalli Music's 3 sweet potato recipes, including our fave topped with tahini butter and lime Hasselbeck butternut squash by Ann Redding and Matt Danzer via Bon AppetitChris Morroco's green bean casserole from scratch via Bon Appetit, or the Midwestern classic recipe from Campbell's Skillet cornbread similar to Kari's great-grandmother's, via Grandbaby Cakes Louisiana Cookin' andouille cornbread dressingAndy Baraghani's fennel and celery stuffingShaved brussels sprouts salad from Little Ferraro Kitchen Roasted squash with pomegranate molasses from Govind ArmstrongWe love hearing from you — follow us on Instagram @foodfriendspod, or drop us a line at firstname.lastname@example.org! Warm…nutty…spicy…rich…toasty…we share all our favorite dishes that are sure to please a crowd, regardless of whether you're hosting or joining a Thanksgiving potluck! We're thinking about fun flavors, contrasting textures, and balancing out your overfilling plate with everything from green beans, to corn pudding, to sweet potatoes, and stuffing. We're sharing our own personal traditions, and comparing and contrasting notes for what has to land on both our tables (homemade dinner rolls!). Thanksgiving is a time to feed many mouths, as well as many traditions. We can gather our nearest and dearest, and maybe a few new friends, around a table stacked with sides that are sure to inspire deeper connections and lasting memories. Tune in for more…
Also, Home Depot earnings fall in third-quarter sales but beat analyst estimates. And, Midwestern towns are struggling with droughts. Charlotte Gartenberg hosts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
What's your favorite season? If the answer isn't fall, you're wrong, no offense! The weather, the clothes, the variety of soups — I mean seriously, what's not to love? Join us for a little chat about our mutual love for all things autumnal and stay for a run-down of the campiest horror movies and our go-to Thanksgiving side dishes — you're not going to want to miss this wholesome little episode. ;)Get silly with us on social:FOLLOW THE PODCASTInstagram: @pessimisticatbestFacebook: @pessimisticatbestWebsite: pessimisticatbest.comFOLLOW SAMANTHAInstagram: @samgeorgsonTikTok: @samgeorgsonTwitter: @samgeorgsonYouTube: @samgeorgsonWebsite: samanthageorgson.comFOLLOW ANNIEInstagram: @banannienovakSupport the show
Jared Gadbaw, the Michelin-starred chef-owner at Oak and Reel, sits down for a conversation with Ann and James, delving into the chapters of his culinary expedition from culinary school to New York City, and ultimately Detroit, where he started Oak & Reel. Gadbaw compares Detroit and New York's food scenes and talks about building trust and pushing the boundaries of the Midwestern palate with seafood and house made pasta.
Welcome to Humans in the Hot Seat, a spinoff series of Humans of Travel. Today's episode features Joseph Fehlen, owner of Small Town Wanderer. Fehlen lives in Rhinelander, Wisconsin, a small Midwestern town with a population of 8,000. Here, you'll hear how Fehlen incorporates his rural background directly into his branding and marketing, and how he encourages his neighbors — about 60 to 70% of whom have never traveled before — to venture outside their comfort zones. A big part of Fehlen's job, he says, is gaining a level of trust with his clients, and helping them overcome any physical, logistical or psychological obstacles to traveling. RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Small Town Wanderer Instagram: @Small_Town_Wanderer Email Fehlen: email@example.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Our first caller is bothered by jet skiers tearing up his local lake. The next caller wants to know how to avoid looking like a dweeb when he's hunting. Following that, a caller is concerned about his wife being forklift certified. Our final caller needs advice on how to make her husband more Midwestern. Get yourself a "Road Huntin For Ditch Chickens" Hat Want us to come to your bar for a Bellied Up episode? Click Here
Returning to the show for the fourth time, Myles Montplaisir (aka the “You Betcha” guy) makes history as the Cripescast guest with the most podcast appearances. Aside from being one of Charlie's close friends and co-host of The Bellied Up Podcast, a Midwestern call-in advice show, Myles is an entrepreneur, content creator, and conversationalist through and through. Having gotten hitched since his last time on the show, Myles catches us up on married life and provides his top three tips for a happy marriage, which includes defending his “hippie haircut” to Charlie. Along with answering some fan questions and playing Midwest “Red Flag or Green Flag”, the two brainstorm ideas for a Midwestern prank show, plans for a Bellied Up live taping, and share their first impressions of one another. Follow Myles at @ohhyoubetcha across the board and the Bellied Up Podcast at @bellieduppod. Follow us on all platforms @cripesast @charlieberens @manitowocminute. For more Cripescast information go to cripescast.com and find us on Patreon for exclusive content at Patreon.com/charleiberens.
The daughter of two preacher's kids, Pieta Brown's early upbringing in Iowa was in a rural outpost with no furnace, running water, or TV. There, she was exposed to traditional and rural folk music through her father, Greg Brown, the now beloved Midwestern folk singer. Later, while living with her mother in Birmingham, Alabama during her formative years, Pieta drew on and expanded these influences and began writing poems and composing instrumental songs on piano. By the time she left home at 18 she had lived in at least 19 different houses and apartments between Iowa and Alabama.In her early 20's, after experiencing what she describes as "the songs calling,” Pieta started experimenting with the banjo and eventually picked up a 1930's Maybell arch-top guitar during a visit to her father's place and never looked back. Emerging from a disjointed and distinctly 'bohemian' upbringing, Pieta began performing live and making independent recordings soon after teaching herself how to play guitar. "I grew up around a lot of musicians and artists living on the fringe, and have always felt most at home among them," Pieta says.Continually revealing new layers as both a songwriter and performer, Pieta is being recognized as one of modern Americana's true gems. In recent years Pieta has released multiple highly critically acclaimed albums, with much attention being paid not only to her distinct sound and style, but also the power of her singing and songwriting, including fan favorite Paradise Outlaw (2014 Red House, which Bon Iver master mind, Justin Vernon, called his “favorite recording made at our studio.”) Pieta has toured North America with Mark Knopfler, and toured various regions of the U.S., Australia and Canada with John Prine, Amos Lee, Brandi Carlisle, JJ Cale, Ani Difranco, Mavis Staples, and Calexico among others. She has co-written songs with and made recent guest appearances on albums by Calexico, Amos Lee, and Iris Dement, whose latest masterpiece Workin' On A World (2023) Pieta co-produced. Pieta's songs and music have been heard in various TV Shows and indie films including Everything Will Be Fine (Wim Wenders). With the release of her most recent album Freeway (September 2019, Righteous Babe) co-produced by Bon Iver drummer, S. Carey, followed by multiple experimental collaborations since with various artists including JT Bates, S.Carey, and Howe Gelb & The Colorist Orchestra, as well as a new instrumental based side-project she calls Sylvee & The Sea, Pieta's music and artistry continue to rise.~ "...a style and a sensuality that's all her own...."- Pop Matters~ "Among the top tier of songwriters today..." - FAME (Folk and Acoustic Music Exchange)~ "...a gifted singer-songwriter whose lyrics are pieces of polished poetry" - Huffington PostPieta's WebsiteSRTN Website
Promos for the following great promotions RCCW 11/10 Squared Circle Megastars 11/11 ACW 11/12 Make sure to follow us on all the socials and our podcast families and partners below. And highfivers make sure to Tune In and Tune out, press play and enjoy because ya know we sure as shit did. Follow the MWR Pod on Twitter https://twitter.com/MWRPod414 Join the MWR Pod Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1244836833095229/ Follow VGM at https://twitter.com/VisGlobalMedia
Jack Hughes sustained an injury as the Devils continued on their Midwestern road trip. Who are we looking at to step up in his and Nico Hischier's absence? It's a question many of us did not want to have to ask... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Since the 2018-19 school year, the Hazelwood School District has sharply increased its rate of investigating student residency eightfold, deploying a team of employees who can use intrusive tactics.
In the Season Two premiere, a behind-the-scenes journey with Thoma Bravo Senior Partner A.J. Rohde to discuss our deal to acquire and carve out Syntellis, a performance management software business, from its parent company, Kaufman Hall Software. By partnering with Madison Dearborn, Thoma Bravo crafted a strategic business plan to carve out Syntellis into a standalone company. A.J. speaks with Syntellis CEO Flint Brenton, a five-time successful software CEO, about how Flint ultimately became the leader of Syntellis after a breakfast meetup in a small Californian diner, and how their shared Midwestern sensibility has led to a successful partnership, ultimately selling Syntellis to Roper Technologies in 2023. This episode underlines the significance of forming strategic partnerships, fostering a robust company culture, and even picking the right headquarters in the middle of the Covid pandemic.
Gary shares a bit of movie trivia with Producer Josh, Greek trivia, a recap of the story arcs within Full House and the reboot (Fuller House), Midwestern cultures, a breakdown of the Budweiser factory tour in St. Louis, entertainment districts, the dynamics within the Lincoln and Omaha arenas, Gary asks why more people don't visit him in Aksarben, our haircut preferences, and the greatest Texas Rangers of all-time.
Promos for the following great promotions Ragin Pro Wrestling 11/03 Magnum Pro 11/03 Horror City 11/03 POWW 11/04 Zowa 11/04 Below Zero 11/04 Midwest Champ Wrestling 11/04 AWF 11/04 We Love Pro Wrestling 11/04 For tickets and make sure to hit up We Love Wrestling on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/1300055987303430 And Follow Tommy on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/TommyxTrainwreck See Tommy and the We Love Family on their appearance on the news https://www.facebook.com/WJFWNews/videos/867358308179780/?vh=e&extid=MSG-UNK-UNK-UNK-AN_GK0T-GK1C Make sure to follow us on all the socials and our podcast families and partners below. And highfivers make sure to Tune In and Tune out, press play and enjoy because ya know we sure as shit did. Follow the MWR Pod on Twitter https://twitter.com/MWRPod414 Join the MWR Pod Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1244836833095229/ Follow VGM at https://twitter.com/VisGlobalMedia
A new poll from the Middle West Review surveyed respondents from 22 states asking if they consider themselves Midwesterners. It included states not typically listed as part of the region — and found that a lot of people want to lay claim to Midwestern identity.
Episode #99 of the Last Call Trivia Podcast kicks off with a round of general knowledge questions. Then, it's time to make some magic with a round of Myths & Legends Trivia!Round OneThe game begins with a States Trivia question about the Midwestern state that's nicknamed “Crossroads of America.”Next, we have a Movies Trivia question about the first movie in which Al Pacino and Robert De Niro acted together.The first round concludes with a Landmarks Trivia question that asks the Team to identify a famous French palace based on several of its features.Bonus QuestionToday's Bonus Question is a follow-up to the Landmarks Trivia question from the first round.Round TwoAre you ready for some epic stories and lore? In today's theme round, we're delving into some Myths & Legends Trivia! The second round begins with a Mythology Trivia question about the Greek myth involving Persephone.Next, we have a Words Trivia question about the type of storm that takes its name from a Taino Indigenous Caribbean word.Round Two concludes with an Animals Trivia question about the breed of dog that, according to Welsh legend, fairies sometimes rode into battle.Final QuestionWe've reached the Final Question of the game, and today's category of choice is Broadway. Places, everyone!The Trivia Team is given a list of four musicals and asked to indicate whether or not each of them won the Tony Award for Best Musical.The Gaming BlenderHave you ever wanted to design your own video game?Listen on: Apple Podcasts SpotifyVisit lastcalltrivia.com/horror to learn more about hosting your own Horror-Themed Trivia Night!
Would you describe the way you feel as you walk through the world as having raw, exposed nerve endings? Or would you say that you just flow through the world able to smoothly transition throughout to day to handle whatever comes your way? In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk with Jennifer Agee, a neurotypical mental health professional, about her experience moving through the world as a neurotypical in comparison to the experiences of autistic individuals. Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode: Understand some of the ways allistic neurotypicals might experience small talk, context cues, and pivot in social situations. Identify the ways in which neurodiverse couples communicate and adjust for sensory needs so that both partners can have their needs fulfilled. Hear some personal stories from Patrick, Dr. Neff, and Jennifer about how they experience travel, dating, marriage, and daily life in different ways. We want to give this disclaimer that this episode only highlights the experience of one neurotypical person, but it still gives a glimpse into the unique ways that various neurotypes experience the world. More about Jennifer Agee: Jennifer is a Licensed Mental Health Therapist, Professional Entrepreneurial Retreat Host and Coach, host of the "Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School" podcast, an internationally known speaker, and owner of Counseling Community, Inc. and Counseling Community KC. Jennifer stepped away from seeing clients in January 2023 and is now focused full time on clinical supervision, strategic business coaching, leading retreats and continuing education. Jennifer is a mental health regional spokesperson for a national healthcare company and pursues entrepreneurial opportunities utilizing her educational and therapeutic training to benefit the community in non "butt in seat" ways. She has a passion for helping therapists not only become excellent clinicians but solid practice owners. Jennifer's Website: https://counselingcommunity.com Jennifer's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/destination.ce.retreats Jennifer's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/counselingcommunity Transcript PATRICK CASALE: Hey everyone, you are listening to another episode of the Divergent Conversations Podcast. And today we are continuing on our series of our neurotype interviews. And I'm really excited to have Jennifer Agee here today who's an LCPC in Kansas City, and a business coach, and my business partner in retreat planning, and a podcast host, and all the things, owns a group practice out in Kansas City as well. And today's part of the series is going to be neurotype Ask An Allistic, specifically, a neurotypical. And Jennifer and I just spent 30 days traveling together in Europe. And we're going to talk about how that experience was vastly different for both of us. But Megan wanted to have you kind of set the tone per usual and just kind of define terms, and then we can get into it. And Jennifer, thanks for coming on. JENNIFER AGEE: Thanks for having me. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, so there can be some confusion sometimes around neurotypical allistic all these terms. So, allistic is just a non-autistic person. So, last week when we had Dr. Donna Henderson on she was allistic because she's non-autistic. And then a neurotypical would be someone who doesn't identify with any form of neurodivergence. So, now we have Jennifer here, who is both allistic and more specifically, a neurotypical allistic. PATRICK CASALE: Jennifer, what's the first thing we said to you when we got into this room about [CROSSTALK 00:01:31]- JENNIFER AGEE: I don't remember what you said, but I said, "I don't know what is going to happen today but I'm here for it." And you both laughed. MEGAN NEFF: That is just so, like, I would never say that. Or I would never feel that. I wouldn't be say it if I was masking. I would never feel that. And I love that, that it's… So, like, you didn't totally know what was going to happen today but you're just cool, go on with the flow. JENNIFER AGEE: Absolutely. And Patrick knows me well enough, especially, even in traveling with me that that's really me all the time. I really do feel that way. If something happens, I'll pivot, no big deal. If a room's uncomfortable, I can be a little uncomfortable. And one of the things that was super apparent to me when we were traveling together is that we really do walk through the world in wildly different ways of how we experience it. And towards the end, I said, "I just feel like you walk through the world as a raw, exposed nerve ending. And for me, I'm just flowing through the world. And it's very apparent in spending this time together that that's what's happening." MEGAN NEFF: I love that imagery of flowing through the world and Patrick actually brought that into a podcast, which is really interesting because I've used a similar metaphor to describe both my daughter and myself. Like, our nervous system being outside our bodies and the idea of flowing through the world. Gosh, I'm experiencing a little bit of envy right now, that sounds really nice. PATRICK CASALE: I'm going to give you a real-life example of this because it just happened like an hour ago. I was talking to Jennifer. We have a retreat coming up in Portugal in October. And I said, "I'm really concerned that the retreat host is like, not very communicative, he takes about 10 days to respond. My mind goes to like, what are we going to do if this person just keeps our money? We have to refund 30 people." And she's like, "No, we'll just pivot and figure it out." And I'm like… MEGAN NEFF: Whoa. JENNIFER AGEE: And we would, and we would. And here's a part of why, actually, this combination of the way Patrick's brain works and my brain works is a good combination, where I say, "Yeah, we'll just figure it out. Like, we'll pivot, we'll make it awesome. It'll kick ass, it'll be great." And I know that his anxiety is going to be so freaking sky high around it that he will have contacted every person he knows in Portugal he would have made contact somewhere. Like, we would have pulled it out of our butt if we had to, but it's going to be great, it's going to be great. PATRICK CASALE: This is a good example, Megan, of like, what every day together in Europe was like for 30 days where I was, like, struggling so much and I'd be like, "Okay, this is how I'm experiencing today." And Jen would be like, "Oh, I have like, opened my window. And it felt like I was in a Disney movie. And I was really excited to be here. And I slept really well. And I talked to nine people across the street about, you know, various things." And I'm like, "What the hell is happening here? This is so strange." It was a very good glimpse, though. JENNIFER AGEE: It was. I think both of us had a good glimpse into the real way that our behind-the-scenes work in traveling together, for sure. MEGAN NEFF: So, I keep thinking, like, my brain keeps going back to the Big Five. I don't know if either of you are familiar with the Big Five sometimes called the OCEAN. It's actually my favorite tool for understanding personality because it's non-pathologizing. But as I'm sitting here listening to you talk I'm like, kind of seeing your Big Five in my mind. Like, I imagine you'd be very high in openness and very high in extraversion. Have you taken the Big Five? Like, do you know…? JENNIFER AGEE: I haven't taken that assessment, but I am very high in openness and I am very high in extraversion, for sure. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah. Because I'm also like, yes, you're allistic and neurotypical, but I'm also picking up some strong personality traits that would also factor into this. I'm just realizing how complex this conversation is because we're not just talking about neurotype, we're also talking about personality traits. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, there's a lot of nuance, for sure. And I think that it's interesting to see how people move through the world. So, you know, the reason we want to highlight this experience, and I also did not do the disclaimer that we did last week, we just want to just use that disclaimer right now, that again, Megan, and I know that interviewing one person does not speak for an entire population of people. So, disclaimer now entered into the conversation. Megan, specific questions, like, that come up for me when I'm thinking about spending time with neurotypical people, my first immediate thought is always small talk. Like, that's where my mind goes of, like, our absolute, like, visceral physiological reaction to small talk. And then, very often neurotypical conversation, which a lot of small talk is kind of the foundation. So, what are your thoughts around that, Megan? MEGAN NEFF: Oh, me? Wait. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, so I want you to just like expand upon that if you want to. This is where we can explain things like- MEGAN NEFF: Well, I, okay. PATRICK CASALE: …we never knew when to talk over each other, so… MEGAN NEFF: This is always that whenever we have a three-person conversation, this is always like fighting the flow. So, I found this study once. I can't refind it, which bugs me because I really would love the citation. But something about where neurotypical people, allistic people get dopamine from small talk, which gave me so much more compassion because for me it's a very stressful experience, I shut down, I low-key dissociate to get through it. Like, no dopamine. So, yeah, I would be curious to hear a little bit more Jennifer about your experience on small talk? Like, is it pleasurable to you? Like, what is your experience around small talk? Does it depend on who you're doing small talk with or what the topic is? What in your mind is the purpose of small talk? Like, I kind of get it, but like, why do you all do this thing? JENNIFER AGEE: So, for me, it could be positive, negative, or neutral, right? And the way I view small talk, let me make a disclaimer, I understand that as an extrovert I kind of want to get to know everyone and at my base route I do like most people. Genuinely, I think human beings are fascinating, I love spending time with them, all that things. So, I've just got to say that and that might just be my personality. But I kind of look at small talk like going to a cocktail party, and you have like cheese trays out and things, and they have cheeses out that you've never seen before. I know how they cut them into those cute little cubes, right? So, you can have just one and you can see like, do I like that one? If so, I'm going to go back and like load the plate? Or do I not necessarily like that one? And for me, small talk is kind of like those little bits to see do I want more of you or less of you? Are you my people? Are you not my people? Do I want to make a business connection here? Do I feel like you could end up being a friend that I have coffee with? Are you someone that I want to hang out with? Are you someone who… You know, those kinds of things. So, that for me is really a part of the purpose, is I am sampling off the cheese tray so to speak, to see what you're about, who you are, how you present in the world, are you my people or not my people? And it doesn't cost my system if you're not my person or it's not an interesting conversation. And I think maybe that's a part of where the difference is. So, for me, if I'm in a conversation that's not all that interesting, I've actually seen Patrick do the, where you could see this look on his eyes where he gets that, "I got to GTFO." You know? Like, he's looking for the exit. Whereas I could just like, enjoy whatever part of the conversation, find an excuse to leave, and like just get out of it, and it's fine. But I like sampling the cheese tray to always kind of get to know people. MEGAN NEFF: I'm having, first of all, I love the cheese plate butter metaphor so much, but I just had an aha moment. You said, you know, if it's not cheese for me, I can get out of the conversation. That reminds me of that fluid idea. For me, it would be very stressful how do I get out of this conversation? How do I do it without offending them? There'd be an awkward like, "Okay, well I got to go, bye." So, the getting out part is harder for me. And I wonder if that's part of why small talk is not as stressful as you can fluidly enter and leave small talk without it being like this big, "Okay, how do I get into it? How do I get out of it? When do I know when the other person wants out? When do I want out?" JENNIFER AGEE: I think you're right. PATRICK CASALE: I also heard like the compartmentalization ability to say like, is this someone I want to have a business relationship with? Is this someone who falls into the coffee category that could become a friend? In my mind, like, there is no ability to have that interpretation and analyzation in the moment where I'm literally, exactly like Megan said, I'm analyzing everything around me, and picking up on everything around me, and trying to figure out the least stressful way to get out of it. And honestly, it does look like this look, that Jen is describing where I'm like, "I have to get out of here." And I may not do this in a non-abrasive way. Not that that is my intention, but it certainly feels like this thing that has to immediately happen. And that it becomes almost torturous to exist in the conversation the longer it goes on. And I don't have a good filter for like my face. My wife will often say, like, "Patrick, fix your face because it's very obvious." JENNIFER AGEE: So, what's going through your minds when you're having to engage in small talk? Because you're both business professionals like I am. Like, we're in these spaces where it's kind of expected. So, I kind of shared what's going on in my mind as that's happening. How do you guys see it? Like, what's that like for you? MEGAN NEFF: That's a great question. I have kind of curated a life where I actually don't do much small talk. I've created a little island of work. And I've actually thought about that of like, it's kind of weird I don't collaborate with more people. Patrick's probably the, yeah, you're like the only… well, I've got one other person that I do some collaboration with and they're both neurodivergent. Okay, but that's not your question. So, I'm trying to think about the last time I did small talk. It's typically, like, I am thinking about my face, I am thinking about, like, nodding, I am thinking about, what is the point of this conversation? I'm maybe, like, rehearsing ahead of time what my next question will be, so I'm like listening for something to grab on to that they're saying that will like move the conversation forward so there's not an awkward pause. I'm typically not thinking about building connections because for me, if I was like, "Oh, this would be a good coffee person or a good business partner." As soon as I think that it becomes a demand and I want no more demands in my life. So, there's a scale on one of the, like, autism screeners, and it's social motivation. My scale is very elevated. Meaning I have very, very low social motivation. So, there's also like, unless I'm having a really automatic connection, like Patrick and I did when I was on his podcast, I'm not thinking about forwarding the connection. I'm thinking about how to exit. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, and I think that's where these abrupt conversation disruptions come in sometimes. I also think I do a really good job of, like, camouflaging/chameleoning, that's not a word. Acting like a chameleon. MEGAN NEFF: Listen to Megan Anna, you just turned something into a verb. I like it. PATRICK CASALE: Claustrophobic is going to be the one because I still have people asking me about that. JENNIFER AGEE: You made me Google that word. MEGAN NEFF: I read a lot of people, that's going to be like a trend in Google because I made a lot of people Google that word. PATRICK CASALE: I do a good job of picking up on what people are interested in and being able to create conversation off of it, so I can remember being at a job where someone was wearing like a Duke basketball sweatshirt. And I did not like spending time around this person. But I knew that I needed to create conversation with them because of the sake of the workplace. So, my immediate conversation drifted into like, "Oh, Duke, like, how long have you liked them? Like, what's really interesting to you about them?" Because it allowed to create conversation that was not like, "How's your day going? What's the day look like? How's the weather outside?" Like, "Oh, man, how was your sleep?" Like, questions that I don't care about to answer. Like, yes or no questions in, general. And so, I've always been good at that but it comes with a cost. And the thing that I think small talk does for me is, Megan, you made a great point of like rehearsing already, and like anticipating your answers. And that takes a lot of mental energy to then have to sit there, and analyze, and think about what am I going to say? How am I going to respond? And then often when masking in situations that, like, say I go out with my wife's friend who I don't know I'm going to feel more uncomfortable despite being with my wife and I'm probably going to mask more because I'm going to be like head nodding more, and making more eye contact, and trying to stay engaged in the conversation. And if the conversation is of no interest to me, and I know that we're not going to become like, friends or contacts, I want it over with. And sometimes in those scenarios, you can't get out of them. Like, I have to sit and endure in that situation. And I think, Megan, and I want you to speak to this too, and your perspective, but I very quickly and intuitively pick up on who I'm going to connect with and who I'm not going to connect with. And if I'm not going to connect, I have no interest in continuing. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah. And that's why, like, I pick up energy so fast. Oh, I want to ask you about that next Jen, first, like picking up energy, that like within, yeah, probably five seconds I know if I'm going to connect with someone. And it's an energetic, like, either it's there, it's not there. And I feel like I can also register how authentic is this person and if they're not authentic, I feel so psychologically unsafe in their interaction and like, I get disoriented because I can tell there's an incongruency there. Like, I have a really strong reaction to that. But I did just want to piggyback off something you said, Patrick. I totally did that, too. I forgot it. But when I was in hospitals, until I could find like a shared context to connect with someone I didn't know how to enter the conversation. So, I was always doing that too of like, did we go the same universities? I remember, like the doctors I connected with best were ones that like we had gone to the same university, like out East. And once I could find a shared context, I could enter conversation. But outside of that, I'd feel so disoriented, not knowing how to enter the conversation. So, that was just interesting. Yes, Jennifer, picking up other people's energy, is that something you experience? JENNIFER AGEE: Absolutely. But again, I don't think it costs my system if they're not my people, I just re-categorize them in my brain and continue on in the conversation with them in that new category. So, [CROSSTALK 00:17:09]- MEGAN NEFF: This information. JENNIFER AGEE: It's information for me to then I'm making decisions as to what level of investment I'm going to have. I will say, though, a part of my personality, and I don't think this is necessarily neurotypical, but I do think it's more part of my personality, I am way more likely to give people more chances, I'm way more likely to see 1000 different areas of gray as to how someone might have arrived at a conclusion or made a statement, or things like that. And so I know that even in Patrick and I's interaction because he does pick up on patterns and things that I don't pick up on as quickly, I'm more likely to maybe stick in something a little bit longer than he would because his system has already very immediately made a decision whereas mine might have made an initial decision and then I test the theory. But yeah, I definitely pick up on people's energies in the room but then I just re-categorize them and move on. MEGAN NEFF: So, when you talk about picking up energy and then re-categorizing like, is it like infecting you? Like, does it become your energy? Or is it a like a signal. Like, okay, that person has a high tempo, that person has a low tempo. JENNIFER AGEE: I think that has changed as I've gotten older, and I know myself better because I am very intentional about protecting my energy in a way that I didn't know to be when I was younger. And I think that's true with most of us, as we know each other better, you know how to show up in spaces. But I can think of a specific example with another leader in our community who always talked about our friendship. And I did think there was a base of friendship there. I didn't think we were friend friends, but we were kind of like on that road to friendship, for sure. I met them and spent time with them in person. And within the first three minutes, it was very clear I was a business transaction to this person, I was not an actual friend to this person. I felt it immediately, I saw the non-verbals, whatever. And so, although, I felt just some level of disappointment because I thought it was really going to be one thing, my brain immediately re-categorized this person as this is a transactional relationship. So, anything that they did moving forward, I always just saw it in a lens of we're both getting something out of this, not that it's friendship, but we're both finding ways to use each other's skill set to benefit our businesses in some way. And so I didn't harbor as much ill will or resentment whereas I know other people I've had interactions similar and have walked away with a very different experience. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, that. Because I think, for me, like I'd feel like kind of clickbait like, but with a person and I'd feel, betrayal is too strong of a word, but like, I really have a sensitivity to feeling manipulated because I'd way rather someone be like, "Hey, I'm interested in a business collaboration, let's go." But if someone is like, manipulating to get to that, like, yet, for me, that would be a pretty quick cutoff. Whereas I hear the psychological flexibility in your mind, you're like, "Nope, I'll put them in a different bucket, move forward, fluid. We'll move through the world fluidly." JENNIFER AGEE: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And if that person was not able to benefit my business in some way, transactionally, I would have then just kind of completely put them to the side. And I wouldn't have had a problem with that. But yeah, there is that flexibility where, again, I think this goes to I do flow fairly easily in the world and in my relationships. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah. I'm going to backtrack something I just said. Actually, I don't know that I would cut them off. I would explicitly ask them, I would say, "Okay, I'm confused. It seemed like you were pursuing a friendship, but now it seems like this is what you're pursuing. What are we doing here?" And actually, now I just don't really respond to people in my DMs but when people used to… Is slide into my DMs always a sexual connotation? I don't know what I mean. PATRICK CASALE: I think it's the right connotation, yeah. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah. People would slide into my DMs. My kids are going to, like, hate me, they always make fun of me when I try to use like Gen Z language. And want to set up a meeting, I would explicitly ask, like, "What is your intention here?" And I'll still do that. I'll be like, when people want to meet, I'll be like, "Give me a bullet list of your intentions, and then I might consider giving you my time." PATRICK CASALE: That makes sense, though, in a lot of ways. And like, whether I do think that is certainly much more of a neurodivergent trait, but it makes sense when you get bigger and busier. Bigger, like you're a medium-sized influencer at this point in time. You have over 100,000 followers on a social media channel. Like, you have to be intentional about how you kind of structure your responses. But I agree with you Megan, like, I want to know the intentionality immediately, and what I'm getting a lot of, and I fucking hate it. Sorry, for cursing world, I'm doing better, is someone will like DM me- MEGAN NEFF: You don't need to mask here, remember. PATRICK CASALE: Someone will DM me and then they'll say like, they'll immediately send a compliment out, but then immediately follow up with an ask. So, in my mind that feels very inauthentic, that feels very disingenuous, that feels like you're just sending this compliment out so then you can ask your request. I don't respond to those anymore. And I used to respond to all of them. And I just realized, like, I can't. I don't have the energy or capacity. But I like- MEGAN NEFF: I'm happy for that progress, Patrick. I'm so pleased. PATRICK CASALE: I know. Jen makes fun of me because she's like, "Patrick picks up every phone call that comes to his life." [CROSSTALK 00:22:41]- JENNIFER AGEE: Every, every phone call. PATRICK CASALE: … if I was in jail because I you know you wouldn't pickup. JENNIFER AGEE: Yes, absolutely. PATRICK CASALE: I don't do that anymore, though. JENNIFER AGEE: I don't think you'd send me bail money too. So, you'd definitely be on my call list. PATRICK CASALE: I screen more calls than I was screening. But like, I like what you're saying, Megan, about, like, give me exactly what you're asking from me because I think that's really important for us, in terms of, like, no longer masking and no longer trying to always have neurotypical relationships. So, like, just ask me for what you're asking without like all the additional layers and all the additional like fluff that comes with some of the conversation and then I can make a much more informed decision energy-wise and also like intentionality-wise, I think that's important. And something you said before that stood out to me, Megan, is like, the ability intuitively to pick up on energy that feels incongruent, or out of alignment, or I can pick up on artificiality like that. And as soon as I pick up on it, I'm not having this relationship, it's going to get cut off. And I think that's a big difference in what you're saying, Jen, is, like, the ability to flow through the world and categorize in the moment. My ability is like, black white. Like you're either going into the pile of people that I don't care about, or I'm going to really, really like you, and I'm going to really like show up for you. So, there is no middle ground for me in terms of socializing. JENNIFER AGEE: That's actually one of the things I love the most because, like, I'm the only neurotypical in my family, right? And so one of the things- MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, I was going to ask you, like, if you had any connections to neurodivergents. So, you're the only neurotypical in your family. JENNIFER AGEE: Correct, yeah. And I- MEGAN NEFF: Wow, so, like, you're parents to neurodivergent kids? JENNIFER AGEE: Yeah, my husband, my two children, two of my grandchildren have already have diagnoses. And so one of the things, I guess, I totally lost my thought, but- MEGAN NEFF: I'm sorry, I interrupted your flow. JENNIFER AGEE: You're totally fine. Yeah, I do just flow differently in the world. And I think being in a household, oh, I got it back. Okay, so I'm reining it in. Okay, here we go. So, what I love about the neurodivergents in my life is exactly what Patrick said. If I am someone that they love they like really love me, I am super in, they invest in me time, energy, and mutually we do that. Whereas with neurotypical, I think, because we're more used to flowing in and out of each other's lives based on all sorts of different things, including seasons, everyone in my life who is a neurotypical who I'm genuinely friends with, they're a real friend. And I see that not as a privilege because I'm not inflicting anybody's head, especially, one on this podcast. But I do think that I honor that I know that I'm in a space that not everyone gets to go to in their life. Whereas a lot of people get that space with me, they're not in my inner circle, but a lot of people get access to me in a different way. PATRICK CASALE: That's a really important point. I think Jen pointed that out to me, Megan, like, while we were traveling, I was thinking about, like, how many people want access to me, and she made a good point, she was like, "Because you don't give them access. Like, you shut them out, so people want to have more closeness and connection." And in the business world, that's a really strange feeling because it means that people are going to like, try to manipulate you sometimes to have more contact with you. And that's something that I really, really struggle with, as someone who has to be around a lot of people a lot of the time for the work that I do. MEGAN NEFF: I'm having kind of a realization as well, as we're talking, Patrick, of like, you and I are both in positions because of our like platforms and business where people want access to us. So, we have the privilege of being like, give me a bullet list of what you want to talk about. Right, there's a lot of autistic people who are experienced in inverse. Like, I'm very aware of my social motivation is so elevated to where like, I don't want more people in my life. But there's plenty of people who are having the opposite experience of like, I'm really trying to build community and I can't give people a bullet list of what do you want to talk about because it's not like I've got 100 people sliding into my DMs. PATRICK CASALE: For sure. That's a good point. I mean, what do we hear a lot of from, specifically, our autistic listeners and followers is like, loneliness, right? Well, are you trying to revamp the camera? MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, right. Yeah. PATRICK CASALE: I bought Megan the camera that I have and it tracks your motion, so it's not always in alignment. MEGAN NEFF: Oh, my God. PATRICK CASALE: But what we hear a lot of is like loneliness, and disconnection, and the desire to have community, and where can I get more community, in general? So, it's really hard then to say no to requests, say no to demands, have boundaries with energy, and time, and sensory overwhelm because there's such a desire for connection. And I think that is a really good point, Megan, that it definitely is a privilege to be able to say, like, not going to respond to this, or I don't feel like paying attention to the messages, or the emails, or whatever. MEGAN NEFF: That I'm going to put boundaries around how I'm going to engage with you, yeah, yeah. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. Like your email response is pretty perfect about that. Your automatic response that you have built-in. MEGAN NEFF: Oh, right, you've seen that now. Yeah, see? Building boundaries. PATRICK CASALE: Building boundaries. That's right. Yeah, really, really good point. How about we diverge to another set of questions? So, last week, when Donna was on, we were asking about context, Megan, and like context clues. And what was the example you gave, in terms of context clues? Something about a neighbor conversation? I can't- MEGAN NEFF: Yeah. So, it's, like if someone asks what's your favorite book? And Donna was saying how it would depend who was asking. Like, for me, I'd be like, sifting through trying to figure out like, it'd be so hard because, like, what does the person mean my favorite book, what genre? So, first of all, I just like, can't answer that questions to context-dependent. But what Donna said, which just kind of blew my mind was like, well, if my neighbor asked, I would say this book, if a colleague asked, I would say this book because I know that like, that's kind of what they're asking. And then what Dr. Henderson was saying is how those context cues are all interpreted subcortically. So, like, outside of our, you know, prefrontal cortex, all of the labor that goes into that. I feel like I heard some of that when you were talking about small talk as well. Like, how quickly you're picking things up and then putting them into buckets, if this is a business connection, this is a friendship connection. MEGAN NEFF: I think you're absolutely right. And I'd do the exact same thing. If somebody asked me what book are you reading? It depends on who they are, and what context I'm seeing them, and I immediately know which category I need to go to and which ones I definitely don't tell them that I'm also reading either. PATRICK CASALE: I've heard too much of those. MEGAN NEFF: Oh, so you also know, like, what filter to apply? JENNIFER AGEE: Yes. MEGAN NEFF: Oh, wow. And again, it's this is not like an analytical process, it's intuitive to you. JENNIFER AGEE: It's very intuitive. I don't think about it. And again, this goes back to things that I noticed spending this much time with Patrick is, I see that he has to think about it, I see that he is intentionally filtering things that I am not intentionally having to filter. MEGAN NEFF: Sounds so nice. PATRICK CASALE: I just got like weirdly emotional on that. I don't know why. But, yeah, I think it's exhausting. Megan and I have talked about how exhausting it is to have to constantly like, try and prune information, and categorize it, and place it where it needs to go. And that's probably why like, sorry, that's probably why like, a lot of the times I have this look on my face where I'm like, maybe feels vacant or blank, but it's really just like, really inside my head trying to figure out the scenario, or how to categorize, or compartmentalize, or answer specific questions. So, it's really interesting. Like, I really wish that it would be completely intuitive, or it was just like, "Oh, I know exactly how to respond to this without having to think about how I'm going to respond to this." Sounds nice. JENNIFER AGEE: I don't know any other way. So, you know, our brains are our brains and they just work the way they work, I suppose. But you know, another part of this conversation, and if you don't want to go into this category, we don't have to, but because Patrick is my friend, I have talked to him before about sometimes the different costs to our system just in relationship like with partners and closer friendships and relationships. And in part because I know that it's harder on my spouse's system to do some of the things than it is mine. I find that I very often will default to the highest sensory needs person in the room. So, because I know it will not cost my system as much no matter what we do, really. If I know that if we choose X restaurant, that it's really noisy, or it's this, or it's that, and it's going to probably be uncomfortable for them even though I might really want to go there I won't even bring it up. Like, I make a thousand tiny internal pivots to try to make space comfortable for the people that I love and care about. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah. First of all, I love that. When I work with parents who aren't neurodivergent themselves, that's something I'm often like, encouraging like, because they'll be like, "Why does my kid not want to go to the restaurant with us?" It's like, "Whoa, let's think about their through sensory lens." So, first of all, I just love that you are doing that, that you're thinking through what I would call a sensory lens. But to the other thing that's interesting that I think I hear your analytical brain, right? Like, for me, that's intuitive. Oh, I don't want to go that restaurant. And this is that double empathy problem, you have to analytically think through, okay, is that a high sensory restaurant? What is my spouse's experience going to be about that? And I think that is at the heart of the double empathy, which is, when we're in a cross-neurotype interaction, we're just not going to intuitively understand the other. But you're doing the labor, you're doing the prefrontal cortex labor of thinking through what would this experience be like for the other person? JENNIFER AGEE: Yeah. And full disclosure, I've been with my husband for 30 years. So, I can tell the way his eye slightly moves a lot of times, you know, how that's affecting his system whether he says it or not, you know? And I think proximity is helpful, right? The longer you're with someone, the more you know how to pick up on their non-verbals and can adapt. And I think we all do that for people we love, right? So, I'm sure you both have put yourself in situations that you don't necessarily really want to be in. But you know that your partner would really enjoy it, or it's important to them, or, you know, going out to a Happy Hour with coworkers you don't know or whatever. Like, that's not how you want to spend that day but you love your partner and you make accommodations for it. And I think you know that we just do that. But I have noticed that I'm more aware of the fact that I'm doing it and I think it's because I'm getting older and I'm asking myself the questions like, how much am I doing that? Or how much am I doing that is accommodating other people? Kinds of questions, but I've been more aware of it. And, you know, I've kind of come to the conclusion that I really don't mind like, because I've asked like, do I feel resentful about that? Should this tick me off? You know, and when I thought about it, it doesn't because when my partner is happy and is flowing through the world in a better way, that helps me in our home and in our life low better, too. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, right. Like, you're going to get a more present version of your husband at a lower sensory restaurant, so if your thinking about the quality of the dinner, it's like, okay, I could go here and maybe get the food I want, but I'd have a dissociated husband or depending on if he goes up or down. So, I love how you think through like the nuance of that. And I think this is so important for neurodiverse couples, is a love Esther Perel's work in general with couples. But one thing she talks a lot about with couples work is like the importance of not always looking to our partners to get our needs met. And I think, especially, for the neurotypical spouse, when there's a neurotypical spouse, like, take yourself to the restaurant, go there with a friend. Like, make sure you're getting that need met of like, I love this restaurant and it's a high sensory restaurant. And I think when I see neurodiverse couples get stuck a lot, is they're not giving themselves permission to meet their needs outside of the dyad. And then that resentment builds up. JENNIFER AGEE: Absolutely. PATRICK CASALE: That's a great point. And you know, I'm very thankful that my wife is very intuitive about that, and also analyzes the cost because she knows that if we go somewhere where I'm just very uncomfortable, it's not going to be an enjoyable experience, and it's not my intention. But she also knows, like, there are like six restaurants in town that I will go to consistently. So, if she really wants to have a date night she's like, "Do you want to go to one of these six places?" I'm like, "Yeah, that's fine. Like, that's okay." "Do you want to try this new place that's really loud, or, you know, really crowded, or really busy?" And I'm like, "Not really. No, I don't want to do that." And Megan, you and I have talked about, like family obligations, and familial obligations, and the cost that comes with saying yes sometimes to going, right? Like, my wife's family and my in-laws are big, loud family, and they're wonderful, but it's overwhelming. And the cost that comes with that is something where I will have to kind of give myself months of time to mentally prepare to say, like, "Okay, we're going to go on Christmas Eve, and I'm going to, like, sit in this room for six hours." And like, I know what that means in the long run. And I just think that is an interesting way to put that in perspective, too. MEGAN NEFF: The other thing, and like, I'm feeling the controversy in my chest before I say this. So, I want to give it some context. But you know, after my diagnosis, and, Patrick, we've talked about this on this podcast, like, there were aspects of being autistic I needed to grieve like the limits I have. I think my biggest grief is around my sensory limits because I have such a hard time being present anywhere in the world, outside of nature and my house because I'm shut down, my nervous system shut down. But I've encouraged my spouse, like, you get to grieve this too. And that's tricky for him, that's not intuitive. But like, the other day, a concert came up, and he was like, "You know what, I had a moment of like it'd be nice if, you know, Megan Anna would want to go to something like that with me." And I am encouraging him of like, "You get to grieve that you don't have a spouse who can enjoy concerts with you." So, I think that's a tricky line, but I think it is important, especially, if this is later in life discovery for both partners to process and grieve elements of what it means to be a neurodiverse. And likewise, like, there might be elements where I grieve that my spouse doesn't intuitively get me in the same way that neurodivergent people do. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. JENNIFER AGEE: I love that you guys are having this conversation. I really do because I just think of how many people that have been in my office over the years, where there's an undercurrent of all of this going on, but in people's politeness are not wanting to hurt their partner's feelings. They don't also own the parts of them that are true that may not feel great to say out loud, and I think healthy relationships gives space for both partners to feel those feelings. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah. And I think that that's important to any couple but especially, in a neurodiverse couple where we are working on that across neurotype, double empathy issue of like, we have got to create space for there to be complex emotions and for us to hold space for our partners to have complex emotions. PATRICK CASALE: That's definitely an episode in the making. I think just having conversations around neurodiverse couples, and partnerships, and communication styles because that's what comes up a lot is missed attunement, and communication, and interpretation of communication. JENNIFER AGEE: That is going to be a huge episode. You all don't even know, buckle up. It is going to be big. I want to compliment you guys, one of the things I really enjoy about your conversations is that you very clearly and articulate the felt experience of being an autistic person walking through the world, where just like you're asking me questions as, you know, ask the neurotypical day, you know, kind of thing, it gives me a peek behind the curtain too, to what's actually happening in your system. And so I just really appreciate and value what you guys are doing. I want you to know that. MEGAN NEFF: Thank you. I'm going to, like, not to totally deflect but I'm going to deflect. First of all, like those words mean a lot, but I also noticed myself retreating with the compliment coming in. How do you experience compliments as a allistic neurotypical? JENNIFER AGEE: I think, for me, how I experience compliments has changed as I've healed my own childhood crap. So, you know, when I was younger, it was definitely not something that I accepted or received. And now when somebody says something nice, I just say, "Thank you." Or I hear all, you know, a lot of times, "Oh, my word, your life looks freaking amazing. Look at all the things you're doing. You know, I just wish I could, you know, have a life like that." And I'll just say, "Thank you. Yeah, it is pretty amazing." And so I can receive it now. But that was not easier when I was younger. And I think that just had more to do with childhood junk than anything else. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah. JENNIFER AGEE: But I'll make my husband stay in there and take it sometimes. I'll just be like, I'll warn him, I'll say, "I'm about to say something nice and you just need to take it." That's exactly what I say. MEGAN NEFF: I love that. PATRICK CASALE: Well, and I can see that being true because that's kind of how our relationship goes sometimes. And two, I could see you retreating Megan. Like, I saw your body like do this. MEGAN NEFF: Even though, like, I loved I loved those words and they genuinely mean a lot. I think it's the positive emotion. And again, this is on the big five, there's a whole facet of positive emotion. It's often low for autistic people. But it's both like, how much we generate positive emotion, but also how we experience it coming toward us. And for me, it can mean a lot but positive emotion coming toward me it feels like a sensory demand. I don't know how else to say it, which is that- JENNIFER AGEE: Because of the titter tat, like, of like a give and take. Like, because I'm saying something nice to you now there's an internal expectation something's supposed to come back. MEGAN NEFF: That's part of it. So, part of it is energetic, just like, but then part of it is I'm supposed to have a nice response to this. And I just typically have an awkward response to compliments. So, also, I guess, there's social demand around and now how do I take this in, and then respond to it? And it's also the like, okay, like, teenage era, it brings me back to like middle school and high school. Like, someone complements your shirt, then you compliment their shoes. Like this exchange. Yeah. JENNIFER AGEE: There's a lot of, you're tapping into something that's completely accurate, which is there's a ton of nuance around relationships, which is where, I think, you know, the two of you would just prefer to cut the bowl and get right to the meat and potatoes. I'm from the Midwest as well. So, like, there's a ton of politeness that goes around conversations because coming- MEGAN NEFF: I grew up in the Midwest, yeah. JENNIFER AGEE: So, coming directly at someone with like, "Hey, saw you messaged me, tell me what you want, what you really, really want. And then like, we'll get out of here." MEGAN NEFF: I love So the Spice Girl reference just there, by the way. JENNIFER AGEE: All right, random brain. But anyway, so if someone came at me that way, I'd be like, "Well, okay, then Mr. so and so." You know? MEGAN NEFF: It will put you off. JENNIFER AGEE: But I know enough now to be like, they're just being direct because they need me to cut to the chase but I will tell you that is a more recent development. And you will be on my suspicious list as to whether or not you go in category, transactional. Like, I'm already starting to make categorizations based on that directness now. I will tell you the first time I met Patrick, and I had already hired him to talk at my first retreat, I told my husband I said, "I don't even know if I should go up and say hello to him based on the look on his face." Like, I'm like, "I don't think this dude likes me at all." Anyway, because he's like, "Well, it's the truth. You tell stories about me, I'm going to tell him about you." Anyway. So, just the way, you know, his presentation and all this stuff is, as soon as he was diagnosed, it was like my brain re-categorize every interaction we had, and I was like, "Oh." And I didn't feel some type of way about them anymore because I understood that was just him being genuine in that moment, his face didn't want to make a fake smile face, which my good Midwestern parts were like, "Put a fake ass smile on, I'm here, come on." You know? So, and he didn't want to, and he didn't. But now that I know that I'm like, okay, he was being genuine in that moment, and my brain re-categorized that. MEGAN NEFF: And this is one of the potential benefits of relational self-disclosure is then we have an accurate narrative to, like, encode those interactions. I got this a lot from my life, too. I think, Patrick, you have too, probably, a lot of autistic people. Like, you seem distant, aloof, like hard to get to know, disinterested. Whereas like, I might be the person in the crowd, like, trying to find someone to make talk with so that I don't awkwardly stand in the corner. But most people are reading me and have read me as disinterested. So, I think it's so helpful then when there's this narrative of like, oh, okay, I understand this interaction, I can categorize it differently now. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, absolutely. That's so spot on. I think those adjectives or description words would be the ones that people would use for me most often. And when I'm connected with people, I'm really connected with them. Like, I can talk, and be very social, and very engaging. But yeah, those would be the words that I think come to the forefront for most people. And I think a diagnosis helps, like you both said, re-categorize, in a way, or at least reshape a perspective, which I think is important, too, if you're open to reframing the perspective, right? Because people can also interpret the diagnosis is like, so what? Like, you're still acting this sort of way. I'm from New York. Like, even if I wasn't autistic, I think there's still a level of directness of being from the Northeast, where like, that is how people communicate. And then moving to the South, were people who are like, "Bless your heart." And like, we got to put all of this fluff into all of the conversations. And I'm like, what is happening here? I don't understand it. So, that's very interesting, you know, in general. But I agree that those are the words that people would describe me with in terms of like, getting to know me socially. And I think that's strange when I am the face of a business where we're hosting people all over the world and if their perception is like, Patrick, is unapproachable, and distant, and really mean, that just doesn't feel great for my brand. But it doesn't seem like that is the case. It just seems like people want to get to know me more because of how distant I present, I guess. I don't know, that's what I'd say. JENNIFER AGEE: I've told you 1000 times it is a part of the key to your success because the, I want to be liked parts of us, freaking love a good aloof person because we're like, "Why don't they like us? Maybe we can…" I mean, like, so all those parts kick in for us, too. I think when we see that we go into all of those spaces within ourselves and yeah, I think it's been a part of your success, to be quite honest. PATRICK CASALE: I appreciate that. MEGAN NEFF: I think it's part of why my spouse married me was because I was like, the aloof in college, right? So, like, that plays really differently. Like, being an autistic girl who was like, hard to get to know, like, in the dating world, that kind of works, actually. JENNIFER AGEE: I could see that. PATRICK CASALE: Can we talk about dating real quick? Because this is something we did not talk about last week and that is something. I just want to check our time too. Do you have your meeting, Megan? MEGAN NEFF: I don't but I don't know if you all have anything. I also have a couple more questions I would really like to- PATRICK CASALE: Okay, cool. We've got like- MEGAN NEFF: …have conversations on- PATRICK CASALE: …20-ish more minutes, so I am [CROSSTALK 00:49:21]- MEGAN NEFF: Are you okay Jennifer for time? JENNIFER AGEE: I'm good. PATRICK CASALE: Last week I didn't have the same buffer, but so dating, right? You just made a good point, Megan. And we've never talked about dating on this podcast as neurodivergent people. I struggle so much to pick up on social cues. I think I'm better at it now. But during that span of my life, it was really hard. And like if people were interested in me, I definitely did not know. So, if someone came over and just talked to me randomly, or like, put their hand on my leg or like, gave me a certain look, I would just not really be able to absorb that or take that in or make sense of that. I definitely had a lot of those interactions where someone was definitely hitting on me and I was probably like, "Oh, did you need, like, direction somewhere? Or like, do you need recommendations for a restaurant?" And I just, like, got up and walked away. My wife is like, "You definitely missed out on a lot of relationships because the first date." I didn't know she wanted to kiss me. I didn't know. She said, I gave her like an awkward side hug, like, goodbye. I probably like ran the hell out of there. I was like, "I got to go." Anyway, Jennifer and Megan, how do you experience that and picking up on social cues? MEGAN NEFF: Jennifer, I'll let you go first. JENNIFER AGEE: I mean, I picked up on it just fine, and then, look, I think if you're cute enough, and you like the person enough, any stupid line will work is kind of my theory. So, I never had a problem with it. And then based on the cues, I would, again, immediately categorize in my mind, do I see this person as a potential anything? And if the answer is no, I would politely you know, hahaha, and exit the conversation. And if I thought they were a potential, I would lean into it. But I was able to tell and really intentionally make a decision if I was going to navigate that interaction one direction or another. PATRICK CASALE: I'm thinking of a situation right now that while I was in Charlotte, before I moved to North Carolina, with some friends, and a friend of their friend, and she kept putting her leg on my legs while we were sitting at a restaurant, and I kept moving and being like, "Oh, my God, you must need space. Like, you clearly don't have enough space in this booth." Anyway, sorry. JENNIFER AGEE: Yeah. You misread that one. PATRICK CASALE: I misread that one. MEGAN NEFF: Definitely. I hear that a lot. Patrick, that's not been my experience, but I hear that a lot from autistic people, especially, more so, I think, cishet men. Like, just totally missing. And, again, talking like in kind of heteronormative spaces, I wonder if many girls are more subtle in their… Because like, we live in this patriarchal culture where it's typically like, the man is supposed to initiate. So, like, yeah, I didn't really relate to that. Also my dating experience happened in this really weird bubble of evangelicalism. And so my dating experience was more like I get into a really deep kind of philosophical, existential conversation with someone, we end up talking late into the night. Like, it would become pretty clear. And it would start with kind of a emotional intellectual connection, typically. So, I do think that I have had like, I think I interpret all banter as flirting, so I do think I have difficulty and in the workplace, this has confused me when I've had male supervisors, banter with me, of it feels flirtatious, but then I'm, like, confused by that. So, I've definitely had that experience actually work. But it's more, everything feels flirtatious versus nothing feels flirtatious. PATRICK CASALE: It's very interesting. I definitely think we have episodes to do off of some of these conversations because it's just interesting to hear these different perspectives and how we interpret and move through the world. So, Megan was there [CROSSTALK 00:53:53]- JENNIFER AGEE: They're so fascinating. MEGAN NEFF: They really are. Jennifer, well, this is a strong pivot. I don't know if we're done. It seemed that fluid, I have to explicitly ask. PATRICK CASALE: This actually feels more fluid than last week. So, pivot away. MEGAN NEFF: Oh, I'm just saying I'm not fluid. So, I'm like having to explicitly ask, are we done with that conversation? Can I- PATRICK CASALE: Can I transition? MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, sensory, we haven't talked about that. So, I know, we've talked about small talk, we've talked about context cues, what's your sensory experience of the world? JENNIFER AGEE: I literally don't think about it. MEGAN NEFF: I was actually guessing that might be what you say, of just like, because it's like a fish in water not experiencing water. That's so interesting. So, like, you'd have to think about it to think about what your sensory experience is. JENNIFER AGEE: Exactly. And now it's 105 degrees. So, if I go outside, I'm going to have a sensory experience of being hot and uncomfortable. I mean, it's just being a human in the world, right? But in general, I don't filter or anticipate anything in terms of thinking about my sensory needs at all because this is kind of, I hope that didn't make me sound bad. But the truth is, I know my systems got it. So, if I walk into a situation, I know that my system will pivot or adjust in whatever way it needs to, to be okay. So, I just really don't think about it. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah, that doesn't sound bad. That's like literally one of the core differences is something I talk a lot about is how neurodivergent people have like ice thin window of, like, window of tolerance because we can't take in incoming stressors in our body adapt as easily. Same thing with sensory, you're saying your system can take in new input, and adapt, and be okay. And that is like precisely one of the huge differences between allistic and autistic systems. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I'm thinking about, like, the one-degree temperature difference that I sometimes need to make me feel more comfortable in my house. And if my wife uses the air fryer, how I can't sleep at night because I can smell the smell of like the air fryer all night, and I'm so uncomfortable, and how I so often default to certain clothing items because of comfort. And it's just amazing how much energy and intention has to go into like sensory soothing, and really having to be really aware and vigilant about it pretty constantly in order to be comfortable. JENNIFER AGEE: So, this is a great example, actually, you mentioning the temperature of how my system, I will just kind of take a lock and just get on with it. So, when we traveled we would often stay in Airbnbs because we packed basically in a backpack for a month, you know? Then we always had to do laundry. He likes it like a freaking icebox. I mean, it was a meat locker in there. I keep my house at 77 degrees. MEGAN NEFF: 77? JENNIFER AGEE: Yeah, and I feel amazing, right? So, at night we'd get in, we'd both kick our shoes off at the door and go to separate rooms. And he would have it set to icebox temperature. And I literally slept with my head under the covers almost every night because I was freaking freezing. But I knew I could wake up and be like, all right, let's go to coffee, you know, it's going to be a good day. And if that affected his sleep, if that affected you know, all of these things, I was thinking of those things, too. I know you made accommodations for me too. But I'm just talking specifically about the being physically comfortable in a space. I was just like, it's not worth it because it's going to cost him sleep, which is going to cost him a lot, lot more the next day. PATRICK CASALE: 77 degrees sounds miserable, first of all. That's what my dad keeps his house at in Florida. I go down there and like, go into an Airbnb, I can't do this. But too, I appreciate that. So, that's a great example of friendships throughout different neurotypes. And being intentional about the things that we know are going to impact the other. And I knew you did that while we were there. Like, I knew you were definitely like Jen is a verbal processor. And I had to tell Jen, like, "If you're going to say all of these things to me every day, I'm going to take them literally. So, if you need me to do something now, then tell me. But if you are just processing your thoughts, please, like, give me context that that's what's happening. Otherwise, the conversation of like, 'Okay, we need to do this, we need to do this, we need to do this.'" And I'm like, "Fuck, are we doing that right now? Like, what's happening?" So, that was very helpful. And also, like, I know, Jen wants to talk in the morning and I am not a morning person. And every morning that we went and got coffee she'd be, like, holding it in, and I could see it in her face where like, I wasn't even talking, I was just like, pointing direction sometimes because I was like, so tired or like, out of it. And I just want to say that I appreciate that, so it was helpful. JENNIFER AGEE: I got you. Thanks for not letting me get run over because he did pull me in a few times when I was distracted by the beauty of the world. PATRICK CASALE: True story. MEGAN NEFF: I just want to say, like, I love kind of, you're all… Oh my gosh, words, do words stop for me after an hour? Is that what's happening? I love your dynamic and I love getting this inside perspective on Patrick of, and I really appreciate seeing your dynamic. I think it's a really wonderful model of what good cross-neurototype friendship. Like, I wanted to say business but it feels and sounds more like a friendship when you all talk. JENNIFER AGEE: It's a friendship that turned into business, for sure. PATRICK CASALE: And it all started with both of us not liking the other person based on certain stereotypes. MEGAN NEFF: Based on the double empathy problem? Was it because of assumptions you were making about each other? PATRICK CASALE: Yes. JENNIFER AGEE: Yeah, Patrick. PATRICK CASALE: I would talk about what I was assuming on air because it sounds unbelievably discriminatory. JENNIFER AGEE: Yeah, Patrick. PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:59:44] from the Midwest, they're having their first retreat in Gatlinburg, Tennessee. I assume this person is just a terrible human being. I don't want to say associate with this person. Why did I say yes to speak at this event? All the things that are going through my head. And then we met in Hawaii at a conference and like then we spent the next five days together, her and her husband and me and some other friends. And the rest is history. But that was definitely my initial impression, which unfortunately is very often my initial impression is like, I'm already assuming I'm not going to like the person, and I really have to experience them to then change my opinion or perspective. I don't go into a lot of social situations assuming the best, I should say, socially. So, that is a difference in our styles, for sure. JENNIFER AGEE: And I'm the exact opposite. I go into every situation and assume that it's going to be awesome. And if it turns out not to be I just adjust. MEGAN NEFF: I think that's what makes me think you're an EO. Yes, I abbreviate personality assets or factors because the high extraversion, high openness, when you look at personalities, if you were to line up 100 people they are the most optimistic forward thinking people in the world. So, it is interesting to me how well you all gel because that's typically not the autistic person. Like, we're maybe on the other side of the spectrum, often, not always, but… PATRICK CASALE: I think that doing some of these events together that we do, and then having that 30 days…30 days I don't want to travel with anybody, I'm just going to be quite honest. Like, I don't want to travel with my wife for 30 days, I want to travel with anyone by like, halfway through, I was just like, "Oh my God, I'm so done." But it gives you a good glimpse into someone who is very extroverted and optimistic because I think some people in society can also misinterpret that as like, this doesn't feel real, this doesn't feel genuine, this feels really artificial. How can you put this face on every day? I got to see for 30 days that this is just every day. And I thought to myself, "This is wild like that someone can move through the world optimistic all the time." I cannot do that. I feel like I'm optimistic 3% of my life, and that might be generous. So, it was just a very interesting experience. I really wish we would have documented more of it either via writing or video to give different perspectives into the different neurotypes in terms of moving through the world, and traveling, and experiencing all of these places, and transitions, and sensory overload, and stimulation, and everything that went into those 30 days because it was so vastly different. Like, if you can imagine Jennifer in Italy, opening her window, seeing the mountains, and like I imagine there were like bluebirds singing and all sorts of stuff. When I opened my window, my view was of old Italian men arguing with each other every morning. Like, we had very different experiences in every sense of the world. And I almost feel like that is like a good glimpse into actual inner world and inner working. MEGAN NEFF: [CROSSTALK 1:02:46], oh, go ahead. JENNIFER AGEE: Go ahead. MEGAN NEFF: I was going to… Go ahead. JENNIFER AGEE: No, you. MEGAN NEFF: Oh, I was just going to clarify is that because your perception of what your, "I gravitated toward." Was different or because you actually had different… PATRICK CASALE: We actually had very different locations in the hotel we were staying. MEGAN NEFF: Okay. PATRICK CASALE: And she had a really beautiful view. Like, I imagine if I looked at it every day, I also would have been more happy than the vi