Podcasts about web smith

Do you know the most popular search query on Bing? It's “Google” [source]. In June 2021, online search engine Bing accounted for 5.56 percent of the global search market, while market leader Google had a market share of 87.76 percent [source]. Despite Google being the dominant search engine, Bing can still perform very well. 1) TikTok, 2) YouTube, 3) Instagram, 4) Snapchat, 5) Facebook are the top 5 apps on the Apple App Store as of this podcast recording. New layout for Google My Business detected DermWarehouse, our in-house eCommerce brand, is rolling out an early Black Friday/Cyber Monday promotion this week. The New York Times wrote a fantastic article on TikTik titled, “Will TikTok Make You Buy It?” The majority of our team here at TMC uses Grammarly to make our emails and internal and external communication more professional. We love the tool and encourage you to check it out! Want to improve your website and sales process simultaneously? Build a success stories section. Internal links play a key role in developing a successful SEO campaign. I wrote a blog post on the importance of internal linking, which you can read HERE. When it comes to your pay-per-click advertisements, you can lower your cost per click by achieving a high quality score. HERE is a list of the 20 fastest growing DTC (direct to consumer) brands. This week, Rihanna Fenty and the Kardashian sisters own four of the 20 positions. This list is courtesy of Web Smith, Founder of 2PM.

Web Smith, the founder of 2PM, the media and consulting company that exists most notably as a very well-trafficked and influential newsletter by the same name, discusses what direct-to-consumer brands should expect from the future of ecommerce returns, who the most iconic retail startup founders are today, and why the world of DTC isn't as cuddly as you might think."Retailers have a hard time understanding sometimes that it's a contact sport," Smith says. "We are often protective in our own direct-to-consumer bubble, but in the greater system, the game's not really that fair, at all."Brought to you by Shopify Plus, the enterprise platform powering brands from Allbirds and Gymshark to Staples and Heinz. Join the revolution at shopify.com/plus.

The media landscape has shifted drastically in the past two decades, making it easier than ever for individuals to create their own content and build an audience just like big media companies do. Today, I discuss how you can leverage this opportunity to accelerate your career or business.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ssense's Krishna Nikhil and 2PM's Web Smith talk strategies for making physical retail exciting at The BoF Professional Summit: What's a Store For?   The role of physical retail has changed drastically over the past few years — particularly amid the pandemic — as customers turned to digital channels and brands sharpened their focus on e-commerce. But, physical stores remain an important touchpoint. During this month's BoF Professional Summit “What's a Store For?” Krishna Nikhil, chief merchandising officer & chief marketing officer of Ssense, and Web Smith, founder of 2PM, unpacked the different ways brands are transforming their stores to be more than just a place to conduct transactions. That means thinking about a physical retail space as a means to provide experiences and entertainment that are relevant to their audiences and continue to prioritise service. “It's so important to think about how you create something that is meaningful for the customer,” says Nikhil. “For us, that really started with this idea of ‘how do we reinvent how commerce takes place in the store?'” Nikhil and Web Smith, founder of retail media company 2PM, join BoF's founder and editor-in-chief Imran Amed for a discussion about making stores a grounds for immersive experiences without diluting their purpose of obtaining customers. Ssense has streamlined the trying-and-buying process to be more efficient by introducing an appointment service so that customers can spend their time in-store engaging with the cultural programming and the “big moments” the retailer orchestrates — like Virgil Abloh's 2018 “Cutting Room Floor” exhibition, which recreated his studio in the space. “What we are doing is giving both a great experience with product, but also giving time back to that customer… That time back, is about immersion in all the other experiences that we create in the store,” said Nikhil. Pointing to direct-to-consumer start-up Rowing Blazers, which used only about 30 to 40 percent of the space in its flagship for actual merchandise, Smith says product doesn't need to dominate a store. “What are the associated things: the moments, the history, the accessories that you were merchandising with — the history of the industry itself?” he said. “What are those things that you would associate with the sale of those products?” As the line between media and commerce increasingly intersects, brands need to present a specific vision of their point of view to the audience they want to attract. “Products are almost commoditised at this point: anyone can make anything. What makes a product unique right now is the person that's selling it and the audience that they're selling it to,” said Smith. Related Articles: Tapping Into the Future of Physical Retail — Download the Case Study You Can't Predict the Future of Retail, but You Can Prepare for It 10 Retail Archetypes for the Post-Pandemic Era Join BoF Professional for the analysis and advice you need. Get 30 days for just $1 or explore group subscriptions for your business.

For full show notes, links, RSVPs to live podcast recordings and more visit thedeepend.substack.comWeb Smith on Twitter: @web

If it seems like a new DTC brand is launching every day, that’s because it’s true. In every industry, across every vertical, on every channel, the next “big thing” is competing for your attention, your clicks and your cash. As a consumer, sifting through all that noise and filtering out which companies are worth your time can be a daunting task. And as a brand, it begs the question: how do you set yourself apart from the ever-growing pack?One option is to find a trusted source to vouch for you. Matthew Hayes can be that source, and his new marketplace, The Fascination, is where he wants to lift up some of the most worthy DTC brands coming to market.The Fascination is a product recommendation and reviews publication focused on emerging and purpose-driven direct-to-consumer brands, large and small. Users of the platform have the ability to filter through vetted brands, digest the company’s story, and even transact all in one place.On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, Matthew dives into lessons he learned while building Leesa Sleep, why curation is so important in the rapidly expanding direct to consumer space, and gives his take on why the convergence of media and commerce will be the one thing that impacts ecommerce the most. Plus, I even pull out a few stories from his trip to Richard Branson’s Necker Island.Main Takeaways:Curation Station: The saturation of the market with a new DTC brand every day is creating issues for consumers and brands alike. With so much clutter, it’s hard to stand out. Through measurable metrics, in-depth reviews, and by holding brands up to certain benchmarks, The Fascination created a space that customers can trust, and brands want to be listed. Layers of Use: For a brand to stand out, The Fascination has found that being mission-driven, promoting social good, and leaning into and highlighting the unique aspects of your business will be the most effective strategy. Lessons Learned: While not everyone can pick the brains of the biggest entrepreneurs in the world, when you get the chance, it’s wise to listen. Matthew was able to visit Necker Island and spend time with Daymond John, Marie Forleo, Tim Ferris, Seth Godin, and Richard Branson. Tune in to hear what advice they gave that has been helping him to this day.For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length.---Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we’re ready for what’s next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce---Transcript:Stephanie:Hey everyone. And welcome back to Up Next in Commerce. This is your host, Stephanie Postles, co-founder at mission.org. Today, I'm chatting with Matthew Hayes, the co-founder at The Fascination and previously on the founding team at Leesa Sleep. Matt, welcome to the show.Matthew:Thanks for having me.Stephanie:Yeah, I'm very glad to have you on. So I was hoping we could start with maybe Leesa Sleep. Because when I saw that I'm like, "Whoa, you were like an OG in the D-to-C space," and I thought they'd be a good jumping off point.Matthew:Yeah. So I was part of the founding team at Leesa. Yeah, we launched it back in 2014 before everything exploded. Right? So we were very early. We were one of the first BedInABox brands to get out there, Tuft & Needle came maybe, I don't know, six months to a year before us. Casper was literally right before us. And then we were out right around Thanksgiving of 2014 and that whole industry just exploded under our feet. We had the wind at our back for most of our tenure, especially our growth years. But things are a lot different now and t's a different ball game in terms of launch and growing a D-to-C brand in 2021.Stephanie:Good. Tell me a bit about the differences. I mean, obviously the world is very different and there's a lot of new trends coming out about what to expect over the next couple of years, but are there any lessons that you took away from Leesa that are still relevant or is the world just like in such a different place now?Matthew:No, I think it's still really relevant. I think a lot of the stuff that we were learning as we grew is incredibly relevant to the way that we launched The Fascination, the way that brand founders are thinking about things now. When we first launched in 2015, cost of acquisition were beautiful. Like all day we could scale the auctions across Facebook and Google, were very, maybe a fifth of what they are now just in terms of competitiveness. Just, I mean the mattress industry specifically there was 180 entrants after we launched, so a huge amount of volume coming into that space and just generally in D-to-C. So the cost of acquiring just pure play digital customers was going up and people were seeing the writing on the wall and starting to diversify into brick and mortar.Matthew:And so I think that was one of the things that we realized, is we've got to have a diverse channel mix. And so we struck the partnership with West Elm, we leaned more into Amazon. We looked more at international and we actually set up our own brick and mortar stores. So I think the combination of that brand awareness and exposure helped our brand tremendously. Whereas a lot of brands stuck it out, stayed pure plays and they learneD-to-Costly less and overspending on acquisition.Stephanie:Yeah, that's definitely the biggest thing that I see from the past couple of years or past decade is like before you could just focus on paid acquisition, like throw a bunch of money at it and one's really, they're going to come to you either way. And then now it seems like a lot of the, I guess the brands that are ahead are more media companies now, and there's a big spectrum between paying for people versus organic or versus starting a community and then launching a product to them. So it does feel like a definitely a different world than just like pay, and grow, and scale up as you go.Matthew:Yeah. I mean, we're seeing that a lot actually. And I think our notion of how to build a profitable business with The Fascination is quite a bit different. No, we're not a pure play own D-to-C brand selling our own products, we're essentially a marketplace, but what we've done is we've seen the success that media companies have had in building an audience that's super loyal whether that's The Hustle, or Morning Brew or The Scam, all of this audience aggregation and demand with these customer demos, there's so much that you can do with it. And so, we saw a bit of an opportunity and the fragmentation that was happening across D-to-C brand for popping up literally every day. And you start to become a little leery of, is this a good brand? Is this is a good product? Does this align with my values and tastes? And we saw this need for curation across all spectrums of D-to-C really. And we saw an opportunity to really create a media platform and a commercial platform around that.Stephanie:So let's dive into The Fascination a bit. So it's a marketplace. You guys are curating D-to-C brands. I saw you have filters focused on the product technical quality, also the soul of the company. Tell me a little bit more about The Fascination. How do you allow brands into the marketplace? Yeah. And any other details around the platform?Matthew:Yeah, so I mean, people are basically referring to it as a marketplace meets magazine, which I think is an accurate description. It's basically at its core, it's a product recommendation and reviews publication specifically focused on emerging and purpose-driven direct to consumer brands. So in much the same way that Wirecutter or the strategists reviews top products and writes those objective third-party reviews and recommendations, as a media publisher we're really doing that, but we're focusing in on a subset of these D-to-C brands that are new and emerging and have purpose driven values.Matthew:And the idea is to create a single platform where people can come and discover new brands, they can read reviews and research those brands and products, and they can shop deals all in one place. So it's a linear play from discovery all the way through to purchase.Stephanie:Yep. So who are some of your favorite brands on the platform right now?Matthew:There's so many good ones.Stephanie:[inaudible].Matthew:Yeah, I know I'm going to get in trouble for this. We've got badges across the site, which are really cool. The badges call out things like women and minority led businesses, or organic, or made in the USA. And so like Girlfriend Collective is one of our women and minority led brands. Haus is another-Stephanie:Even Haus on, yeah.Matthew:... Yeah, they deal the [inaudible] and great products, great brand story.Stephanie:Delicious.Matthew:Delicious. Yeah. I was just chatting with the founders of Huron, which is a men's skincare line. Awesome story. And then we've got the big names that you'd expect. Like we've got Allbirds on the platform. We've got Warby joining soon if they're not up already any day now. We've got UNTUCKit so, those it's a nice mix of the old school D-to-C incumbents with a lot of really cool emerging brands that honestly I'm intimately involved in direct consumer and a lot of these brands I hadn't heard of for the first time.Matthew:So if you think about like, as it broadens out the halo from the bulls-eye of our tightest demos, there's going to be so many people that are discovering these brands for the first time. And that's really what we want. We want some of these big names to attract people into the site, and then we want a lot of our awesome emerging brands and products to be discovered while you're there.Stephanie:Yeah. That's great. So how are you convincing these larger brands to join the platform? Because I'm thinking your space, I think also is very competitive. I mean, the world right now is headed to a place where everyone wants curated collections. I mean, they don't want to spend a bunch of time everywhere. They want it all in one place. We had the CEO of Fast on talking about, you need the one-click checkout and be able to allow people just to check out instantly and not have to bulk it into a cart. It seems like your space is very competitive too. How are you convincing the Warby Parkers? And the older brands who probably are approached by quite a few marketplace platforms to, "Oh, join us." Why are these brands going with you?Matthew:Well, I think we've really a ton on the story and the user experience and just the overall look and feel of our digital product and what we stand for. I think it's also in our favor that we have been D-to-C operators ourselves and we can really empathize to what these founders need. And we've been fortunate to be in the community for several years now. So we had a few close partners that our spring pad, if you will. Not to mention Nick Sharma as an advisor, who's great at pulling in brands.Stephanie:He was on our show too, man, I was just-Matthew:Yeah, I know.Stephanie:... fortunate.Matthew:And so yeah, between that, and we had some really amazing brands reach out the first day that just totally shocked us. We have a type form application that comes through and we had a couple of 100 brands, including some of the biggest names in the space on day one, which it was super exciting. And just a lot of founders getting really excited by seeing their brands mentioned in our round ups, or seeing products being shared. So I think that the validation that we're starting to provide, and really empathizing with what brand founders need is something that they're really clamoring for. And I think word it gets out fast.Stephanie:Yeah. That's great. So is there any trends you're seeing right now around what customers are most excited about? I mean, I'm guessing you have all this data now and you can see, okay, a bunch of people are coming on during quarantine and buying Haus. We need another type of Appertiff or something to offer that's similar because we see so much engagement there, any trends?Matthew:I think that one of the things that we've seen that's really interesting is our roundup pieces on brands that are making an impact and just the social impact stories are really, really resonating with consumers. And the brands are sharing the stories, which is just amplifying the message that much more. So the general consumer sentiment that we're getting from a qualitative perspective is that a platform like this is very much needed and like, thank you for building it. So I don't think it's even halfway to where we want it to be, or it could be in terms of the overall product development evolution, but we're going to get there quickly.Stephanie:Yep. So how, when you're... You just said that certain stories that you're telling around the brands and the social good aspect of it are really resonating. Is that your main play when it comes to acquiring new customers on your platform is by writing good pieces of content, having the brand share it to get in front of their audiences as well, or how do you think about acquiring new customers?Matthew:Yeah, I mean, customer acquisitions, it's always a challenge for a marketplace like this. And that's why from day one, we didn't approach it as a pure play commercial marketplace where you're just aggregating and selling products. From a consumer perspective, that's really not serving the overall need that we're trying to address, which is discovery, research, and shop and convert. And so the research aspect of that is really where we're going to focus a lot of time and attention and work. And what I mean by that is writing really in depth, thorough product reviews that are authentic, that are meaningful, that consumers value and ultimately Google values that content really highly as well. And so, what I'm getting at is the SEO and organic traction and such. It's going to be a big part of how we grow organically, keep our acquisition costs low.Matthew:There's a lot of performance marketing things that we can and will be doing. Brands have had tremendous interest in doing paid marketing partnerships, whether that's white listing on Facebook, or sponsoring newsletters, or any sponsorships. I think there's a tremendous amount of demand for that. And we really are just dipping our toes into the very first test there. And then I think PR and having, as I said, our brands amplify, our content is also, it's just going to be a latent, organic way to continue to build low cost audience. I mean, I think if you think about the way that Leesa scaled and a lot of those 2015 brand scaled, we know that we can't run the same playbook and build a sustainable business.Matthew:And so as we were launching in early days, it's like being a media company is really hard, right. Coming up with really engaging content every single day, pumping it out, like the Morning Brews and Web Smith's of the world, I take my hat off to those guys because it's not easy, but I think you can already start to see the rewards that we're going to reap from that.Stephanie:Yeah. So what channels are you... Well, maybe actually first, let me talk about the content piece, because that's top of mind for me is, a lot of people say you just need to create good content and that's the key to finding great people. How do you go about brainstorming something that will resonate? Are you actually going through maybe search trends and starting there to see what's going on in the industry, and then writing articles around that? Or is it purely, just like, I want to talk about Haus's story and we're going to talk about what they're doing behind the scenes? Like, how do you brainstorm content?Matthew:It's a mix of all of that actually. So we've got a number of things that we're covering at any one time. A lot of it is when we have new brands onboarded, we've got to write the brand story and we've got to review their products. That's phase one. And that's like an ongoing process as we get up and running. But yeah, we're also looking at industry trends, category wide trends, search trends around specific products or competitive products to see how we can write really compelling content that meets that need.Matthew:And then we're thinking about the cultural relevance, things that are happening topically in everyday life. And we've got a couple of different personas that we look at. And so what are our personas caring about, what's their headspace, and then what are the things that are happening in their specific lives at this very moment in mid January? So as we think through those things, you start to surface really relevant content ideas, and that's where our social content, a lot of our editorial content comes from. And that's generally how we do it.Stephanie:Cool. And what are some of the channels that you're most excited about right now, or you think that there's untapped potential? Are you sticking with the Facebook where of course stick the Facebook? How is sticking with-Matthew:Afterthought.Stephanie:I like that. Hey, they used to be though. Right?Matthew:Yeah. Drop that.Stephanie:Yeah. I mean, when? It's still pretty relevant, but yeah. Are you sticking with Facebook? A lot of other brands still say that's the best place to reach customers. Are you trying out a bunch of new channels and experimenting? How are you thinking about that?Matthew:So Facebook isn't a priority for us right now other than to the extent that we use it for paid social advertising. I would say it's there. Of course it's there. But when we're thinking about building audience, Twitter has been a nice surprise for me, I'm really bummed that I didn't get myself on Twitter several years ago, but Sharon, our audience development team's doing an awesome job of engaging that really passionate community.Matthew:I think LinkedIn has sneaky, organic reach and potential. And we found that a lot of our brand founders are sharing our content there and we're getting a lot of engagement.Stephanie:They're more organic then, right, because LinkedIn is super expensive when it comes to advertising.Matthew:Yeah. All organic. And then stuff like TikTok is interesting as we look at really organic product reviews doing things with founders, I think that's something that we're going to be looking at as well as Clubhouse.Stephanie:Yeah. Clubhouse. I think that's where it's at. I'm on there. I listen to people. I think you can connect with a lot of great people on there. I'm still not sure about the unstructured format sometimes where things can go on for hours and hours, but yeah, it seems like there's a lot of potential there to at least connect with new people. I don't know about selling.Matthew:A lot of untapped potential.Stephanie:Yeah. So I saw that you were also an investor in GRIN. Right. And that's the influencer platform, which is... That's the right brand. Right?Matthew:Yup. [inaudible].Stephanie:Okay. So our guest yesterday that we had on was, that's her favorite new tool that she's looking into and I had not heard of it before. And I'm interested to hear a little bit about how are you thinking about influencers? What attracted you to GRIN, where's that market headed over the next couple of years?Matthew:Yeah. I mean, we've been doing influencer marketing since 2012, honestly. And I think there's going to be a lot more regulation around it for one. So you've got to be buttoned up as you execute itMatthew:So I think that's just part of the industry growing up. A lot of these minors are now celebrities in their own right with huge followings and PR teams. And so the days of just engaging with an influencer that way are over. It's really about adopting a micro/nano strategy where you're activating pockets of a couple thousand followers up to 50 to 100,000 followers and doing it more strategically at scale. And that's where I see a lot of brands and agencies having success doing this stuff. So GRIN is just a really awesome tool for managing that entire workflow. Keeping you really on top of things, you can search for look alikes of an influencer. So if you have someone or something that you want to find influencers around, it's great for that.Stephanie:That's awesome. And how did you think about attribution and analytics around utilizing influencers and seeing if you're really getting the most bang for your buck?Matthew:Yeah. I mean, well, especially with iOS 14 and everything that's going on there, it's always been an imperfect science, we never assume that we would have even close to perfect attribution on influencer activations. So we always treated it very top of funnel and you do what you can in terms of attribution. So you give them trackable UTM parameters, you give them a bespoke promo codes with their name. You give them a landing page experience, everything that you can do to cookie the user on your website and get them into what feels like an authentic customized experience for that loyal following. That's going to increase conversion, I think as much as anything.Matthew:And the vast majority of influencer activity is probably happening on mobile anyway. So wherever you're sending them, it's got to be very mobile optimized because if they switch over, your attribution's lost at that point.Stephanie:Yeah. And I think that authentic piece you're saying, I mean, it has to fit your brand. The person has to not just be saying something just to say it. And I think taking that longer-term approach more of like a partnership and someone who is going to be a part of your brand, even if they start out smaller and grow with you, will be way better than just trying to target a big name, because I normally don't really put any weight in products that large celebrities are showcasing, just because I'm like, I just know how much money you're getting paid and I highly doubt you're using that teeth whitener.Matthew:Yeah, I mean to that point and a lot of grants are basically incentivizing on the CPA or per sale basis with, like you're saying a subset of really loyal influencers and affiliates that they can send that influencer their fall collection of bags and apparel or whatever, and they can get 10 or 15 posts out of it if the influencer continues to see performance. And so I think that's the new way of doing things nowadays.Stephanie:Okay. So yeah, viewing it from a content generation perspective of, they're not just posting once trying to get their product off, but they're also creating an article or blog posts that you can repurpose and pull quotes from or whatever it may be.Matthew:Yeah. And more frequency drives more conversion. So the more you get that brand in front of your audience, the more likely it is they'll finally take action.Stephanie:Yep. So I want to talk a bit about mentorship, which I always love asking questions around this. I saw that you went to Necker Island a few days ago... a few years ago [crosstalk], really? Few years ago. And of course Richard Branson's Island. So I want to hear, what did you learn there? What advice did you hear? I saw, I think Damon John was there, Tim Ferriss, Seth Godin, Marie Forleo, a bunch of great people to learn from. And I want to hear about the stories behind going there. What did you learn, all that?Matthew:Yeah, I mean, it was a life changing experience for sure. Damon is still pretty close to us in the business. He got involved with Leesa after we met, especially with their 110 program, and I really just learn from him the hustle, the grind. He told his story about how he came up with FUBU and really built that business from zero. And so, talking about fundraising with him is a different thing.Matthew:Tim was on the Island too. I was fanboying out when I met Tim actually, because I was obsessed with four hour workweek, four our body and here I'm chatting with him in person. We actually started talking about going up against Casper. At the time, we were pushing pretty heavily into podcasts and Casper was buying up literally every podcast that we could find, that we wanted to go after. And funnily enough, he would really push a micro strategy to us. He said, "You need to go after these very small podcasts that aren't affiliated yet, that have nascent, but growing followings." And we did, we found 10 of those, especially in comedy and gaming, and we stayed with them for years and they ended up crushing for us.Stephanie:Oh, that's great. And did you secure long-term partnerships with this company?Matthew:Yeah, I think we're still working with a few of them honestly.Stephanie:Oh, that's great.Matthew:We just completely sapped the audience, an everyone's got a Leesa now. Yeah. And then we talked with Seth. David and I chatted with Seth Godin, who's a marketing genius. He's like the professor of modern day marketing. And at the time, we had done around 30 million in our first year of sales, which was just crazy. And he was talking about making this leap called crossing the chasm. Basically when you're attacking the early adopter market and you're doing quite well, there's a point at which you have to "cross the chasm" and reach the broader demographic of people. And so I don't remember the tactics that he talked about, but he always impressed that idea of our okay, now we've got to broaden our sphere of influence. We still use that phrase today.Matthew:And then Marie Forleo was there and we had a lot of really good, we like chatted one-on-one several times, because I was incredibly anxious. I've always dealt with anxiety issues in my career, in my past. And so we had some frank chats about vulnerability and putting yourself out there. And once you do that, it just eases the tension, eases the anxiety. And I still use that to this day.Stephanie:Yeah. I was going to say, does it help now? Because I mean, I definitely feel that too. I remember when we first sold this podcast, then they're like, "Oh, Stephanie can new host it?" And just being like, oh, I usually always would have our other team members host the shows and yeah, I liked working behind the scenes and it definitely was hard being like, okay, you just have to do it. You have to get yourself out there. Did it help afterwards thinking through about her advice?Matthew:Yeah, it totally did. And I always think of this idea of demonstrated performance, where it's like, you're nervous about something, you're anxious, you step on stage or you sit in the seat, you put yourself out there and you have a really good performance. And then that just gives you one more step, one more piece of confidence and you keep going and building. And now stuff that I do every day without even looking at my calendar is stuff that I would have just freaked out about all day five years ago. So I think it's just about experience.Stephanie:Yeah. Now I agree. I remember even just thinking about doing video meetings, like when I first was starting out in the corporate world and being like, "Oh, my gosh, my first meeting." I was just so scared and sweaty and nervous and then now taking like 10 a day and being like, not even thinking twice. So yeah, I think just doing the work and pushing past and knowing you'll probably fail a couple of times and who cares?Matthew:Exactly.Stephanie:That's great. And did you meet Richard Branson when you were there?Matthew:Yeah. We met briefly. He gave us a talk which was awesome. He talked a lot about Virgin's impact program, and what he's doing there. And so that was really important to us at the time, because we were setting up our Leesa 110 program and that was cool to hear from him.Stephanie:That's great. So where do you see the next couple of years headed for The Fascination? What are you guys building for? What are you doing in stealth mode right now? What are you planning for the world to look like in a couple of years?Matthew:Yeah, I mean, right now we're really heavily focused on getting the digital product where it needs be to really deliver on a full transactional marketplace that's cutting edge for consumers. So in the next couple of years, we want to have a destination that is super engaging. We want to have brand founders engaging with consumers real time in the platform. We want to have people shopping and reading and researching brands and products all seamlessly, and to be able to buy those products in one click, right? Right on The Fascination.com. And so a lot of things have to happen in the background to obviously make that work.Matthew:And then we're always thinking about, how can we acquire the best customers, bring them in most cost-effectively? And it's always on my mind of like, delivering really solid, meaningful content to the audience, not just fluff stuff, but stuff that's really, really valuable. And so that's what I think we're trying to win.Stephanie:Well. Yeah. It also seems like there's such an opportunity to... I mean, when you have all these brands and they have access to a lot of insights on their customers or who's coming to their website to then build lookalike audiences off of those brands, and then all of a sudden you have access to customers and you're coming from a different angle where maybe if Leesa would have already gotten in front of a customer two times and they're like, "Nah," they then see The Fascination comes in and they're like, "Hey, check out this mattress. It's like a third touch point. That's very separated." But it seems like there's a lot of opportunity there to get insights at a much more accelerated rate than you would get just by yourself.Matthew:Yes. That is the goal. Yeah, there's a whole data infrastructure that we really need to put in place to get the most out of it. And honestly, coming from Leesa for so long, I'm still trying to wrap my head around what that all looks like in terms of affiliate click attribution and how we create audiences and how we do product recommendations. So we're only a month old, but we'll get there. And I can tell you that there is such tremendous demand for what you're talking about. Just leveraging lookalike audiences, leveraging audiences across categories that aren't competitive with one another. At the end of the day, everyone that comes to The Fascination as an interested consumer if we do it right, it's always going to have similar demographic profiles, right. Whether they're a man or a woman. So as you aggregate that at scale, there's a ton of value for brands to be able to tap into that.Stephanie:Yeah. It seems like eventually they'll have to be tools for the merchants as well, to be able to interact with all the platforms they're on. Or like, I mean a lot of sales are moving towards the edge. There's a lot of people say and how do you keep track of that? Like, how do these merchants they're selling on The Fascination, they're selling on Fancy, they're selling on not that Fancy is the same, but there are quite a few places popping up where these brands might be like, "Yeah, I want to sell on that platform or over here," but I don't know if enough tools exist right now to keep track of what you're doing and consolidating it all in one place.Matthew:Yeah. I mean, it's got to be a challenge for these fairly young brands. There's product feed software that'll handle some of that, but at the end of the day there's manual stuff that's always needed once you're drop shipping and wholesaling and you have retail partners. So yeah, we're going to be thinking about it from the other side, just the same, how do you manage 100, 200, 300 merchants and keep them happy?Stephanie:Yeah. Crazy. All right. Well, let's shift over to the lightning round. Lightning round is brought to you by Salesforce commerce cloud. This is where I'm going to ask you a question and you have a minute or less to answer. Are you ready, Matt?Matthew:Yes.Stephanie:One minute to answer. All right. Yeah. Prepare, drink your drink, whatever that may be. All right. First thing, what one thing will have the biggest impact on ecommerce in the next year?Matthew:I think the convergence of content and commerce is, is going to have one of the biggest impacts. You've got media companies that are converging in the commerce, they all want to be transactional. They all want a bigger slice of the pie. They all want more lifetime value extraction from their readership. And then I think on the commerce side you see brands and retailers who are obviously seeing the cost rising of customer acquisition in the traditional sense and creating really rich content. It's the only way to do that. So we're diving in right at the intersection with what we're doing at The Fascination and that's where we saw it going. And that's why I think we're bullish on where we're headed.Stephanie:Yeah. Well, it'll also be interesting to do a recap episode on what's happened since some of these brands got into mixing media with commerce. I mean, I'm thinking about NBC, I think did a whole shoppable TV thing. And I remember seeing them launch that maybe in February or April last year, but I don't know what actually happened. So it'd be fun to do a recap of like, here's who launched in 2020 when it came to mixing media and commerce and here is status update.Matthew:Hopefully we will be one of the givers.Stephanie:Yeah. Hopefully. What's one thing from 2020 that you hope sticks around in 2021?Matthew:I think that we've all had to embrace things like this, just getting on video conferences, not having to present ourselves through this façade, in the office I would have never thought about wearing my hat backwards and rolling around in athleisure. And now that's just the norm for everybody. And kids are on work calls and it's just, the whole thing feels a lot more familial. And even if we do go back to offices, I really have loved that work now feels a little bit closer to home because you're in your home, but also because just the interactions, you see more than you would if everyone was in an office environment.Stephanie:Yeah, I agree. And I think it definitely brings a more human perspective too. Like you're saying, working together, knowing someone's kids, seeing them in the background, and then you also have more, I guess, empathy when a mom or dad's like, "Hey, I got to go do this with my kids." It's like, "Oh yeah, I saw your kid connection." Of course you can, whereas I'd say prior to this. Yeah. Not as much of a leniency, I guess for that. Yeah. That's a good one.Stephanie:What is the funniest story or best story you can think of when it comes to either building up Leesa or building up The Fascination where you're like, "Oh, this is a good time or a good story that really sticks in my brain from those years."Matthew:We've done so many like gimmicky things at Leesa. We were growth hacking like crazy and we were throwing stuff against the wall and not all of it stuck. We did a ton of stuff with Barstool Sports. We maybe did a few influencer integrations that wouldn't go over so well today with certain influencers.Stephanie:And with Barstool, I feel like they're so edgy that they can get you in trouble all these days anyways.Matthew:They're very edgy and we purposely like with all of those podcasters and creators, we're like, go be very authentic. And so you can't tell Barstool like, tame it down and not be authentic. But they were a huge converter for Leesa for several years.Stephanie:That's fun.Matthew:So we did a lot of fun stuff. We sponsored Larry at the gambling goldfish, which was a gold fish swimming around in a tank on Barstool sets, they pulled a mattress behind a truck with a Santa Claus riding on it. But we've also done a lot more admirable things, like we did a sleep out for the homeless. We've done a lot of cool things at Leesa just in the experientials side of things that made it fun.Stephanie:Yeah. I mean I have a love for the gambling goldfish. I want to go check that out. That actually sounds pretty funny.Matthew:Yeah. One more thing that we did is I think it was the 2017 NFL Draft, it's shown on ESPN and all the players are interviewed in their homes. And so we sent the players that we knew would be interviewed on TV, on ESPN Leesa mattresses. And we had them put their Leesa mattress boxes behind them and their families. And we got millions of impressions that night because we had Leesa mattresses all over the air on ESPN Draft.Stephanie:Oh, that's fun. See, I love creative stuff like that, where I mean, as long as it actually converts too, I always have the question about TV, does it actually convert or what happened after everyone saw the mattress behind them? Did you guys see a big uptick in sales, or?Matthew:I don't remember if we did or not. I think we saw a bit of an uptick, but I mean, it was such a low cost stunt to do that. It wasn't a swing for the fences, but we also did a ton of TV in heyday at Leesa. And you can really see the brand awareness effects the TV has even though it's insanely hard to track.Stephanie:Yeah. I agree. What is next on your reading list?Matthew:I'm probably going to do Shoe Dog by Phil Knight.Stephanie:Such a good one. I love that book. Yeah. So inspirational. I highly recommend. If you were to have a podcast, what would it be about and who would your first guest be?Matthew:Well, that's an interesting question because we may very well have one soon.Stephanie:Oh, nice.Matthew:Yeah, I don't know in what format it will be. It may be a podcast. It may just be like Instagram TV stories, but we really want to interview, just do flash interviews with our brand founders, asking about their origin story, asking about what makes their products different, fun facts. And I think a groundswell of really interesting stories like that would be fun.Stephanie:Cool. That sounds good. And then the last one, what's the nicest thing anyone's ever done for you?Matthew:Oh, that's tough. I mean, I there's been so many instances of generosity. I think honestly, giving me a chance to make the career switch that I did, and this is a bit of a shout out to David my co-founder, but he really took a chance on me. He's been super supportive of me for years, and it's really gotten me to where I am today in terms of my career and the place that we're at collectively. So him and the people around me that pushed me to make that leap out of the traditional corporate world of consulting. I was really hesitant to do that coming right out of my MBA and looking at a nice salary, and he was one of those people that pushed me over the top to do that. And I'm thankful for it.Stephanie:That's really cool. Great story. All right, Matt. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show. Where can people find out more about you and The Fascination?Matthew:So about me, you can find me on Twitter at MattDHayes, all one word, and then The Fascination.com. Go check it out.Stephanie:Awesome. Thanks for joining us, Matt.Matthew:All right. Thank you.

“By blending the line between media and commerce, you can lower customer acquisition cost and increase lifetime value.” @jadesai94 #DTCPOD“There are five different way that you can use to launch your direct to consumer brand according to Web Smith’s concept of linear commerce.” @jadesai94 #DTCPOD“You should focus heavily on acquiring your audience.” @jadesai94 #DTCPOD“Launching with either a PR strategy or a go-to-market strategy with a well-received media push are usually the more predictable paths that are taken by venture back DTC brands.” @jadesai94 #DTCPOD“When you're creating content, you want to be providing value.” @jadesai94 #DTCPODWe Speak About:[00:45] What is linear commerce?[01:15] Different types of launches on the linear commerce line[03:35] How VC-backed eCommerce companies typically grow[03:50] Creating sustainable growth for eCommerce[04:20] Building your tribe[04:40] An example of using content to grow an audience[05:05] Benefits of building your audience firstThe line between media and commerce are blending, and it’s a big win for DTC brands that get it rightLinear commerce - it’s a term coined by Mizzen+Main founder Web Smith that identifies the different ways a DTC brand can launch.According to Smith, there are five different ways a direct-to-consumer brand can launch. On one side of the line, you have a brand that acquires most of its customers through paid efforts. On the other side, you have a media company that may eventually launch a product years later.As eCommerce and brand launches continue to evolve, the line between media and commerce is blending.The brands that now launch with an established audience can acquire customers for less and have higher lifetime value.By leaning into audience growth first, you can build a more sustainable business.Stay tuned as we discuss the five different versions of DTC launch strategies, what is the best strategy you can take for your brand, and some ideas to build your audience first.If you’d like to learn more about Trend and our influencer marketing platform for influencers and brands visit trend.io. You can also follow us for tips on growing your following and running successful campaigns on Instagram and LinkedIn.Mentioned Links:Web Smith’s 2PM: https://2pml.com/More on linear commerce: https://2pml.com/2019/04/22/on-linear-commerce/

This week, Alexis gets non-technical with Web Smith, Founder of 2PM Inc. They talk through Web’s late-night creative outlet, his kids using TikTok dances to communicate, the time he was wrong on Twitter, and—unfortunately—how Alexis once got a concussion…… at SoulCycle. You can find Web on Twitter @web ( https://twitter.com/web ) and Alexis at @yayalexisgay ( https://twitter.com/yayalexisgay ) and @NonTechnicalPod ( https://twitter.com/NonTechnicalPod ).

“If you’re looking to scale user-generated content and influencer-generated content, Trend can help you do it at $100 per creator.” @jadesai94 #DTCPOD“To run a successful creator or influencer campaign, you want to make sure you pick creators and influencers that fit your brand.” @jadesai94 #DTCPOD“The reason creator and influencer content works so well is that it often looks native to the platform. It doesn’t look like it’s coming from a brand.” @jadesai94 #DTCPOD“By using custom brand content in ads from creators and influencers on Trend, Mizzen+Main was able to increase ROAS by 2.7x.” @jadesai94 #DTCPOD“Don’t just stop at generating the post from a creator or influencer. Use that content on your website, emails, social, and ads to get more mileage out of your partnerships.” @jadesai94 #DTCPODWe Speak About:[01:20] What parts of Mizzen+Main’s creator strategy we are going to cover[01:30] How Mizzen+Main activates creators and influencers[03:00] How to pick the right creators and influencers for your brand[03:40] Where Mizzen+Main is using custom brand content by creators[04:20] Why creator and influencer content will perform better than your own content[05:00] Where else to use user-generated content and influencer-generated content[05:50] Why all of your ad content should use UGC and IGC[07:10] Breaking down Mizzen+Main’s whitelisting strategy and results[08:15] What Mizzen+Main did after whitelisting to get even more results[09:30] How to start replicating Mizzen+Main’s content strategyHow Mizzen+Main increased purchases by 2.3x and return on ad spend by 2.7x with custom creator contentToday, we are breaking down Mizzen+Main’s winning creator strategy that’s increased purchases and boosted ad performance. Mizzen+Main has run campaigns on Trend, so we’re excited to break down their strategy.For context, Mizzen+Main is a clothing brand that specializes in performance fabric menswear. Mizzen+Main’s strategy for activating creators and influencers has helped boost conversions and stay top of mind for consumers.There are two big reasons Mizzen+Main has been so successful in working with creators and influencers:They make sure to pick creators and influencers that fit in with their brand.They make sure to get the most mileage out of these partnerships, using influencer-generated content in multiple ways.Continuing to get more mileage out of creator content is key in generating a return on your investment. You can’t just rely on an influencer’s post to make you money.Stay tuned as we cover where Mizzen+Main activates creators, how they pick the right ones, where they use the custom brand content they get, and what results they have generated.If you’d like to learn more about Trend and our influencer marketing platform for influencers and brands visit trend.io. You can also follow us for tips on growing your following and running successful campaigns on Instagram and LinkedIn.Mentioned Links:Mizzen+Main’s website: https://www.mizzenandmain.com/Facebook ads library: https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/Trend breaks down Mizzen+Main’s creator and influencer strategy in a blog post: https://trend.io/blog/mizzen-and-main-dtc-marketing-micro-influencersMizzen+Main dark posting case study: https://www.facebook.com/business/success/mizzen-and-main

Today’s episode features two special guests. Erika first sits down with Gary Vaynerchuk to talk about owning a sports team, the power of LinkedIn and the business of trading cards. Later on she is joined by Web Smith, the founder of 2PM, to talk about all things eCommerce.

Bradley is joined by Web Smith, founder of 2PM, a subscription-based media company covering developments across commerce, media and the retail brand landscape. Bradley and Web discuss direct-to-consumer trends, deurbanization, and the future of ecommerce. Bradley muses on his plan to build a bookshop in the midst of a pandemic.

Two giant ecommerce thinkers had a conversation—and it was epic! Join Web Smith and David Perell as they discuss everything from creator marketing to building a brand community.

Web Smith is the Founder of 2PM, an unique company that creates some of the best reports and summaries breaking down the DTC industry.  In this conversation, we discuss the future of media, owning the relationship with your customer, linear commerce, DTC brands, and how Web has built 2PM. ============================== Athletic Brewing is re-imagining beer for the modern adult. We love beer. But we also love being healthy, active and at our best. No matter your motivation, if you want to keep a clear head and drink healthier, we are here for you. Athletic makes non-alcoholic beer that you don't have to compromise to enjoy. The beers are fully flavored, clean ingredient, and a fraction of the calories of full strength beer - they fit in any occasion. Check out www.athleticbrewing.com for more details and free shipping nationwide. ============================== Choice is a new self-directed IRA product that I'm really excited about. If you are listening to this, you are likely part of the 7.1 million bitcoin owners who have retirement accounts with dollars in them, but not bitcoin. I was in that situation too. Now you can actually buy real Bitcoin in your retirement account. I'm talking about owning your private keys and using tax-advantaged dollars to do it too. Absolute game changer. https://www.retirewithchoice.com/pomp ============================== Pomp writes a daily letter to over 50,000 investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy to understand language, while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://www.pompletter.com

This episode is about all things ecommerce and content marketing. Amanda talks with Corinne Watson, Senior Content Marketing Manager for Postscript.io, about: where the path has been, which trends need to die, and why content needs to take a big step forward. Topics: 0:37 - Professional networking and how connection with others has changed since jobs have gone remote due to COVID.  3:45 - The importance of creating solid content with strong SEO, while also making it educational. Corinne describes the editorial strategy during her time with BigCommerce. 7:44 - Making the switch to SMS marketing. 9:35 - Working at a startup, you have room to experiment and room to make mistakes.  12:07 - How SMS marketing today compares to email marketing in 2014.  17:55 - Uses for SMS marketing. 19:38 - Predictions about Black Friday Cyber Monday, and the upcoming holiday season. 22:28 - Opportunities for content in ecommerce. 28:41- Where in the marketing funnel should a case study live and how can it be used in content? 31:15 - Postscript’s SMS marketing certification. 33:35 - Corinne talks about her work-life balance as a mom and adjusting to her new roles.  38:38 - Thanks for listening! Be on the lookout for next week’s episode. If you have questions or suggestions, you can find us on Twitter @growthmachine__. Links: Postscript’s Black Friday Cyber Monday Resource Center BigCommerce (3:47) Postscript (7:50) Postscript’s SMS Marketing Certification (31:15) 2PM by Web Smith (38:14) Lean Luxe (38:16)

Emily Singer is the creator of the newsletter Chips + Dips. A couple times a month, she shares news about consumer brands and marketing trends, but her insights get deeper than data. She draws perceptive connections amidst brands, but she also gets personal, making the newsletter feel like a DTC diary.In the newsletter's 26th issue, Emily is four months into the COVID-19 pandemic and reflecting on a shift in perspective and an overall lack of excitement for new brands — How could I get excited about a skincare company’s content strategy when thousands of people were dying and when I, myself, was doing the bare minimum to care for my skin?Emily wasn't the only one in a brand rut. If you're immersed in the world of DTC ecommerce brands, you may have noticed that many of them fall within certain archetypes. These archetypes are well documented in a Bloomberg article titled Welcome to Your Bland New World. From fonts and photography to mission and story, the opinion piece chronicles similarities that make some of these brands seem downright interchangeable — but maybe similarity is not always a bad thing.In this episode, Emily reflects on this article, contemplating the comfort of sameness, our human inclination toward trends, why brands have to have soul, and why sometimes, toothpaste should just be toothpaste.For images and links, go to the Lumi blog.

Having founded and sold multiple ecommerce companies, and having worked for numerous ecommerce startups, Web Smith believes broad economic trends determine entrepreneurial success as much as tactical execution. Successful entrepreneurs, Smith asserts, must be polymaths — possessing extensive knowledge across multiple subjects — to understand opportunities. And that's the purpose of 2PM, his latest company.

I am a big fan of Web Smith and really enjoyed our eCommerce and DTC (direct to consumer) conversation. He is the founder of 2PM. Guest - Web Smith, Founder and Editor-in-Chief at 2PM, Inc howardlindzon.com, 2pml.com Twitter: @howardlindzon, @web, @2PMinc, @knutjensen #fintech #invest #investment #venturecapital #stockmarket #finance

Web Smith of 2PM joins me to discuss founding Mizzen + Main, dealing with burnout, how Community is the future of eCommerce, why Nike is FAR superior to Reebok and how he curates one of the top newsletters in the space. You can find show notes and more information by clicking here: https://bit.ly/2CEZrZi  Interested in our Private Community for 7-Figure Store Owners?  Learn more here.   Want to hear about new episodes and eCommerce news round-ups?  Subscribe via email.

In this episode, we talk to Web Smith, Founder at 2PM, a bootstrapped media and publishing company that puts out two long form essays and three letters every week, maintains 12 databases, and hosts the 2PM polymathic community.Mention Web Smith, and most in the DTC community will know exactly who you're talking about. Not in 2009, though. Back then, Web found himself unemployed—with a family of three. He wasn't discouraged. A couple hours into unemployment, and he was making his next move. Hunting for opportunity in the chaos. In the decade following, he'd move to Texas, take a role at Rogue Fitness, co-found Mizzen + Main, advise at fortune companies, and invest in a handful of other top DTC brands.And yes, he also launched 2PM.If you've read On Optimism and Big Ideas, you know there's five important lessons he leans on to get through tough times: optimism, dynamism, calmness, opportunity seeking, and finally, deep generalism. We dive into each of those.With the current global pandemic, calmness is a lesson that sticks out. Web encourages founders and leaders to step back, "don't throw a way a whole business model because of a couple weeks." Many brands have rushed to discount their products either because of a crisis, or to clear inventory. Luxury brands should avoid it. There's good inspiration to model after in these times, and we talk about those brands who are doing well.Look for opportunity. Web is big on arbitrage. In 2003, Alibaba used the SARS outbreak to shift towards ecommerce. That's when they launched their peer to peer marketplace, Taobao. Web talks about the similarities to what's happening now with COVID-19.One category that is thriving now is fitness—companies like Peleton, Tonal, and Mirror. In addition to the added focus on exercising at home, there's also a longing for community, and the competitiveness that it brings out. There are important benefits that Web calls out.There's some advice he has for brands during this time of uncertainty. He offers his words of encouragement for founders and operators who are navigating through the turmoil.If you want to be on top of shifts and trends in the direct to consumer space, we encourage you to visit 2pml.com and signup for the executive membership—we highly recommend it.We also recommend that you follow 2PM and Web Smith on twitter.To learn more about the DTC Growth Show and #paid, visit hashtagpaid.com/dtcThank you for listening. This is the DTC Growth show.

TL;DR (DL): People won't care about what you do until they connect with who you are. I connect a few ideas and resources together to arrive at this key takeaway for business, #churchcomm, ministry as a whole, and interpersonal relationships. Links mentioned: Web Smith on Twitter: http://twitter.com/web 2PM: http://2pml.com Gary Vaynerchuk: http://twitter.com/garyvee Need communications help? Holler at me: http://yourdigitalpastor.co/hire #YourDigitalPastor

Why is retention so hard for DTC brands to focus on, despite knowing how powerful it is? I've been pounding my head against the desk asking this question again and again. Data proves it's one of the biggest growth levers, CAC is too high to keep chasing, and yet, ecommerce brands still aren't shifting enough focus and effort to this side of the equation. I couldn't figure it out, so I tapped the experts for this one. Hear from Web Smith, Reza Khadjavi, Jarid Lukin (KIND Snacks), Kaitlin Holliday (Four Sigmatic), Val Geisler, Jordan Gal, Aaron Orendorff, Taylor Holiday, Brandon Doyle, Matt Goldman, Ken Johnson (previously Manpacks) and more. Learn what's holding YOU back, and what you can do about it, b/c the brands brave enough to shift perspective will be the ones thriving in 3-5 years.

EP174 - Web Smith of 2PM  Web Smith (@web) is the Founder and Editor-in-chief of 2pm, a curated, subscription-based media company.  We cover a wide variety of topics around digitally native vertical brands, including the recent Harry's acquisition, and Away investment. Don't forget to like our facebook page, and if you enjoyed this episode please write us a review on itunes. Episode 174 of the Jason & Scot show was recorded on Wednesday, May 16th, 2019. http://jasonandscot.com Join your hosts Jason "Retailgeek" Goldberg, Chief Commerce Strategy Officer at Publicis, and Scot Wingo, CEO of GetSpiffy and Founder and Executive Chairman of Channel Advisor as they discuss the latest news and trends in the world of e-commerce and digital shopper marketing. Transcript Jason: [0:24] Welcome to the Jason and Scott show this is episode 174 being recorded on Wednesday May 15th 2019 I'm your host Jason retailgeek Goldberg and as usual I'm here with your co-host Scott window. Scot: [0:38] Hey Jason and welcome back Jason Scott show listeners Jason one of our favorite topics on the podcast is the Mega Trend that has several names that that we talked about our favorite is DMV because it just rolls off the tongue but there's Brands going direct to Consumer and I'm sure there's others in there and tonight we're excited to have on the show one of the top experts on this Trends both from being in the trenches but also the Strategic level we have with us tonight web Smith web is founder of 2PM DTC e-commerce newsletter that is published at wait for it to p.m. everyday full disclosure for listeners both Jason and I are fans of the letter end of the executive membership enjoy reading. And prior to starting to peel web was a senior executive investor founder and many well-known DTC Brands and he also as part of his whole portfolio what he does he advises and invest in lots of these Brands as well welcome to the show web. Web: [1:44] It's my honor guys for having me. Scot: [1:48] Call someone one kind of fun topical thing I just saw that the luggage company had no idea they call themselves a travel lifestyle company but I think of them as luggage company away, just raised over $109 and I think they're in the the definitely the Unicorn club which is valuation over a billion dollars but I think they're closing in on a billion dollars and I hear you have a fun away store. Web: [2:13] Oh yes well you know I know that, one of you guys is a fan of Jen Rubio and she certainly on my good side a long story short I think it was maybe for 4 weeks ago for 5 weeks ago and I was joking about wanting to go to the Masters and everyone wants to go to the Masters but, but I don't have a joke that I would want to go one day but I also want to be able to afford my kids college education. [2:36] DaVinci respond she says you know do you want my tickets and I'm like well. Yes yes of course I want your tickets she's like to meet up in you get to Georgia I confirm that I can get to Georgia and in the next, 3 hours is a really interesting sequence of events happens she responded she has one ticket it's a very special ticket, but in that time I told my dad who's always wanted to go that I was going to take him, buying two regular price ticket regular price tickets for the Masters for Sunday with Tiger In Contention cost $2,400 per, okay so I buy these tickets which is a huge sacrifice and long story short. My dad fly so maybe go to Augusta, and I end up selling those tickets aside all together because Jen got me two of those special tickets, so I can honestly say that that time gesture is responsible for probably a top 15 or 20 day of my life with my dad it was a bucket list item for him, and we got to see you know the Masters and style. Scot: [3:50] Yep and tiger sounds like you're a tiger fan is really awesome to watch him kind of make a comeback I thought it was a pretty interesting moment. Web: [3:57] On that day every everybody was a tiger fan that was really spectacular to watch. Scot: [4:02] Awesome, Aiken South Carolina and the guy that runs all the concessions at the Masters lives in my neighborhood I don't live there anymore but my old neighborhood and we all would get jobs at the concession so I worked at the Masters for 6 years. Web: [4:17] How many elements are cheese sandwiches have you sold. Scot: [4:20] A lot. The with Aaron Works their way up to the Beer tent because a back 10 beers were like a dollar 75 or something like that and then all these quarters would fight with her so I get tips which is exciting and second of all are there so many quarters swing around it that you could help make an extra like 5 or 10 bucks from falling quarters. Jason: [4:43] I just wanted to an awesome fact about stuff that I didn't know that. Spence I don't where you able to liquidate the the general admission tickets to you invest in in. Web: [4:54] So I did not and that was very painful that was a lot of money for me but again it was my dad and he's no 63 and he's always wanted to go so I did it, at the end of the day I still ended up net positive I got two of the most special, tickets in all sports and I got to watch Tiger In Contention on Sunday and obviously ended up winning for the first time in 14 years so. I got over that expense for the sake of how wonderful of the time it was my dad. Scot: [5:25] If it happens again don't forget your favorite podcasters. Web: [5:29] I will never forget you guys. Jason: [5:33] Yeah that is awesome and I'm pretty confident on your hundredth birthday one of the things you're not going to regret is is your investment in going to that Masters. Web: [5:42] I agree with you I'm a piece of it. Jason: [5:46] So speaking of things you might regret one of the things we offer to do on the show is is get kind of the, brief background bio of Our Guest so that was nurse can kind of understand for the how you came into your your current role and knowledge base can you can you come, walk us through your high level of career progression. Web: [6:08] Sure long story short I would say that I got my my first big boy job my real beginning e-commerce back at Rogue, Rogue is a sporting goods and Equipment Company manufacturer and a consumer brand here in Columbus Ohio I was responsible for auditing and, running paid search and so on and so forth or time there I learned a lot about you know frankly high tension, advertising company was still growing at that time it was it was maybe a hundred people if it's now it's six hundred people, it's one of the most underrated e-commerce companies in America my opinion. [6:52] I think it's actually run so I learned a lot from a group shortly after that, I cook pounded missing the name of Kevin Lavelle that company's doing really really well now it's Consolidated in Dallas and the team is strong, having to step down as CEO himself and a gentleman from Stitch fix is now running the show, from there I sort of switch gears and went on the publishing side so, I was at unpaid for a little bit I was there director of gear Patrol director of e-commerce or e-commerce platform on top of the existing publishing structure first, real ghost experiences are my first real contact Commerce or what I like to call them to your Commerce operations understanding how, audience & N Supply meet in the middle. [7:48] I consulted for a little bit and finally I decided to go all-in on 2 p.m. and it's been almost almost three and a half more years now, and I'm loving every minute of it. Jason: [8:01] That's awesome and for listeners who might not be familiar with, the 2 p.m. news that are let's let's break that down a little bit so this is a email newsletter is a freemium model right like you have a free subscription and you have some premium content, that you can pay for do I have that right. Web: [8:19] Yes yes so you know I started the letter, because I wanted a place to go where we could just focus on her industry without any distractions keep in mind this letter came about when every publication Under the Sun found a way to talk about politics, whether it's National or recode or whatever they found a way to talk about champagne I just wanted a place to go or like you only focused on. On the issue at hand how to understand the industry that we are in and how to be able to better operate on that on that intelligence it's always started for group of a couple dozen Allegiant obviously it expanded and, but the letter itself fully monetizing the beginning of 2018 and it's it's been no looking back ever since it's, the structure that business is 3 folds we have, pay subscription we have a Consulting arm and then we invest in direct to Consumer brands with some of our cash flows. Jason: [9:27] Yada interesting and the primary Topic in the newsletter is all things direct-to-consumer native brand is that. Web: [9:36] Well I would say it's a little broader than that it's it's e-commerce in general but it's a combination of, digital publishing data branding and and traditional Commerce my belief is that you won't understand one vertical, unless you understand how they all interact together. And the executives to understand how all of these articles are interacting with one another are the best computer to operate in this ever-evolving space. Jason: [10:05] Awesome in in so like what's the profile of the ideal subscriber. Web: [10:10] Shirk so here's a great test that I I do maybe once every 6-8 weeks I opened the list to come to my event we I host a dinner it's fully paid for by my myself and Dory, sponsor partner. And I first come first serve we usually hosts 24 people at a round table an amazing dinner always amazing always an amazing time everyone that shows up is always director VP level and above. So I don't dig through to figure out how many Executives I have in the executive membership what I'm finding is that it's heavily skews in that direction, these are people that are actually making the decisions actually implementing the products and the positioning. And I like that that's where the focus is and I'm hoping to never have to expand beyond that. Jason: [11:09] Got it got it and Scott mentioned that both he and I are executive members in so short of mine ocean for the kind of content you publish in this will be a good test you can tell me about, I'm wildly off-base are by have it is is you really have sort of three kinds of content that I've found useful, you do these memories which I kind of news curation and I think you know they say that in the coming couple times a week, you write a bunch of original content in your own sort of povs which are these sort of weekly reports and then you also have this executive Library which are these really useful, list like the the jewel need a vertical Brand Power with sore with small that investors in the space or agencies in the space stuff like that Dua, do I have the sort of content types roughly right. Web: [12:02] You do and one of the last, inside added in the last several weeks is a member research Series where I will pick two companies against one of them and expect and explain its excuse me explain how these companies are which company is better positioned to take the market, so the first one was stockx vs goat. That that research document actually influence a and upcoming investment round that's all I'll say about that. And the most recent one was Peloton versus tunnel. Pelton's obviously be on demand cycling Hardware / platform, and tunnel is the functional fitness, mirror / digital weight apparatus that you that you attach to your wall so I explained, based on both empirical data and some anecdotal evidence which which company I feel like to take the majority of the marker moving forward nothing that's been really interesting for my executive member. Jason: [13:12] Awesome and then if I have it right here last. Weekly report the topic was direct-to-consumer Playbook is a trap maybe you could tell us a little bit about what with your POV was there. Web: [13:31] Yes so one of the one of the most frequent questions that I did is from investors at asked me to help build a Playbook. Or direct to Consumer Brands what to do in the situation which agencies to go with. Choose a copywriter you know key terms that you want for SEO depending on the industry what song is this, the notion of that of that particular report is that any company that's been successful in the DTC space space whether that achieving unicorn status or below or right below it or are you asking me got there. By being antitetico to what was written before then. So instead of following what someone else is what another business is doing right write your own path if that's really what you want if the debt exit is really what you want to achieve That's the basis of the record. Jason: [14:34] Yeah that's so like I sent you a you like there is no point buck or at least there there's not one Playbook that works for multiple play brands. Web: [14:45] Correct everything that Harry's did. Was Waze was antithetical to what was going on in the Market at that time if you remember them going to Target with soft, you know I thought we saw that you were supposed to be a direct consumer brand why are you giving up why are you giving up Margin for wholesale. Or were they open their pop-up shop in New York there their Barbershop why would you go into retail that's a that's a poor investing why not just invested ads. So on and so forth are five examples that I mentioned in that document and one thing is clear they they achieve a unique outcome because they were a unique company that was well run by there to Founders. Scot: [15:32] So so it sounds like the Playbook is rip up the Playbook. Web: [15:37] That's that's that's exactly right. Scot: [15:38] If you can be a disruptor Fila disruptor you can't follow Playbook. Web: [15:43] Correct correct I'm going to ask you to put someone on the spot there's a quote. There's a quote in the actual lab report and it says embarrassed it's hard only the disruptors will survive I will survive, and it says Anonymous founder that was actually a quote by Kevin LaBelle who co-founded business name with me, and he made a good point the whole Spirit of the document itself was to remind Founders that they have to continue disrupting if they want to succeed they can't follow what everyone else is doing and expect that unique outcome. Scot: [16:17] Brickell let some so it's that's good let's take out of it this thirty thousand foot level you're the timing of the show here is really good because you mention Harry's and they just required for 4 is a record for one of these to join in Africa brands at 1.4 billion by folks that operate shit and then we just talked to her about even since I've I kind of put our little strip together we had the away investment do you feel like, taking the Playbook piece of side you feel like we're kind of super early in this space or is like this 1.4 billion dollar sale almost like a sign that work on towards the end game. Web: [16:56] Oh I definitely think they were early you know I was talking to Alex at Lightspeed earlier today and one thing that he added was that that you know there will be more there will be more stories like what we've seen from Harry's in a way, it's just a matter of time and companies are finding out what it takes and they're they're finding their stride and they're moving towards profitability a lot earlier and omni-channel operation. Omni-channel operational success earlier and it sits and dividends. Scot: [17:29] It seems like invest yet these exits typically actually get more and more investors calling in this is that kind of what you're saying is the investor interest is still on the rise. Web: [17:40] Stoner eyes. However I tend to be biased I believe that companies should take as little money as possible. So hopefully these companies are being Savvy about who you know they invite to their capital. Scot: [18:01] Yeah but if some is the ones that are scaling up or having to do omni-channel and break the Playbook and you mentioned like opening a barber shop that's all that just kind of feels like. The need to raise more Capital daddy how you reconcile those two things. Web: [18:19] That's your question I mean listen going back to our days at missing mizzen is in over 700 stores right now I'm not even including the Nordstrom deal so that's 700 + independent retailers around the country. We did that because we were hoping for more cash flow and it worked out well. The team bear did a successful job well beyond my time they're digging into that model and really developing strong relationships with these retailers, sometimes these operations are less capital-intensive than you would think it will all depend on the demand for the product. In the hope that the products the sell of the product will pay off. That's that's what I'm saying from a lot of the companies I mean from all reports Harry's was profitable. And I'm hearing that that away was profitable or very very close. Scot: [19:20] Yep this is kind of an aside but it kind of came to me that you probably got a really nice portfolio of these things have you ever thought of starting an angel list for people could invest alongside of you. Web: [19:34] No I haven't listened I'm still figuring out. How to build a strong Media company in 2 p.m. And until I understand the ins-and-outs of of consistency over time II can't go all in on the investment side like I would want to. What is an interesting idea the problem is the more the more opinions that you have at that stage of growth. From investors the more viewpoints on it so forth I think the more convoluted you're going to be as a founder. Nice guys rescue much but one of them one of the more bullheaded Founders that I know is it's been what he have a recessed you can't tell that kid anything, it really believes what he believes and it's paying dividends for him so my fear was getting a lot of investors involved early on is that the goal often for early-stage investors is to, I guess in for some influence on the strategy or the model and you know I tend to believe that you're supposed to listen to your gut and do your own thing and then and operate with a few strings as possible, so I would actually say that we strapping to a certain point and then seeking investment what you have some social life. Traction would be your social proof rather would be would be the play. Scot: [21:03] Cope with assignment Jason with sign up for mini mini Millions if you heated Angeles thinks I'll just put him on Spotify. Jason: [21:12] You talk about Annoying opinions that investors don't want mine would go right at the top of that list. Scot: [21:19] I was searching on Google for shoe and you did not come up. Web: [21:24] Yes please. Jason: [21:26] Why are you here yet exactly yeah I'm actually at the other end of of, that that chain like I'm always getting the call because my client you know just got some goofy request from their investor so. Yeah I feel like I have great great empathy for the, the management team in that regards but the interesting thing is, you mentioned what kind of in the first Inning on the DMV bees it does feel like they've done a lot of Buzz and they get a lot of mind sharing our space and a lot of people are talking about, it seems like the number of entrances really balloon it wasn't that long ago that you know there was a you know you could name all of the these digitally native brands in or you know, probably less than 10 minutes I mentioned you you have a, Visa executive databases on your site your your power ranking for digital native brand has a 316 companies on it, is like what's your what's your POV like in the market support 360 companies and can they all have a great exit and is it going to jump to thousands or you know is there going to be a reckoning. Web: [22:51] There will certainly be a reckoning it clear I'm not a fanboy I'm actually quite bears. I'm very bullish on the companies that have it figured out. So I agree with you that the volume will go up I personally think that the volume is ridiculous but it's really easy to raise 3.5 million dollars out of the gate right now no to specially if you went to Wharton, or one of those schools and you just have like that that direct-to-consumer sort of prestige that those schools offer at this point. It's too easy and I don't think that the companies that have raised money easily are the ones that are most likely to succeed. So yes there will be a reckoning and it will be sad but I do think that building a direct-to-consumer brand a digitally native brand is the best way to launch a company that is it in this day. Jason: [23:51] Interesting yeah I want to drill down a little bit more but I do think it's funny like you mentioned earlier that like, companies that are looking for a Playbook to Simply follow or probably wrong and I can agree with you I get the moment there's like this, this specific Buzz that does have a. Seemingly A playbook attached to it and in it you know we haven't seen a lot of phenomenal exits from that play book yet but that's the whole like, Warden student hires red antler raises 3.5 million dollars spends it on a branding kit, invest in some huge huge cock and like it does seem like there's this sort of. Traditional play that that you know you're you're starting to see a bunch of of Brands follow and it is interesting cuz there's not necessarily a lot of evidence that. That there's a strong exit at the end of that tunnel. Web: [24:52] I can't agree with you more if so it's frustrating for me partly because we have such a hard time raising money ourselves, I don't think that you did Russell retire match of the time or that type of growth Capital but that's not bad for the side. You know whenever there is ease and a low barrier-to-entry you're going to have hundreds if not thousands of competitors I think those competitors or false the Wayside especially as, Facebook continues the whole tight they're their inventory of as the bill self. That means that cost is going to continue rising and it's going to wash my to be friends out it's unfortunate but it's true. Jason: [25:36] Yeah so you bring up the Facebook CAC tactics and it's funny you know you significant number of the well-known DMV bees have now shown up on Shark Tank, and I I miss having a fascination with a show we've had a bunch of gas on the on the show that that are are DMV bees, that had a shark tank experience, and they're all there's a number of wisdom's that the Shark Tank investor share some of which I like wildly disagree with but one when it comes up a bunch on that show is there really negative on companies who like, have primarily grown through Facebook marketing and you know there's a there's like a strong perception that there's, there's not like that that customer acquisition through Facebook isn't Portugal a scalable for these brands that there's a small amount of, audience that you can buy really cost-effective way that it starts getting really expensive really fast and I do tend to agree with that so it is, it is funny to see some of these brands with a over-dependence on on a couple of these digital marketing Tech. Web: [26:44] Absolutely into that point you know I hear the other way I believe that the brands have the best organic audiences are the ones that have the best, long-term opportunity to succeed. It's at that point ironic and I said this had a recent speech in San Francisco the companies that are the most likely to have successful direct-to-consumer operations are existing Media Company. Jason: [27:14] Interesting for example. Web: [27:17] The best example right now with some is an example that that will probably be scoffed at but Arsenal sports or so we'll probably do 40 million in e-commerce in 2019. That would put them in the top 2004 online retailers. Scot: [27:35] Glenda what is Barstool song I'm not from Earth that is it just it kind of pulled in some affiliate sporting good stuff or is it private label stuff. Web: [27:44] No this is I mean they they have in their store they have something along the lines of 1700 1800 skus. Apparel knick knacks so on and so forth, in addition they have Behr Premium media subscription that I want to say this something like. 15 million since March and November 2018 so baby are moving in a recent article with biggie day. Your CEO Erika nardini. Mentioned by two digit is editor-in-chief she believes that there is there going to be a 150 million dollar beer company. A lot of that is Commerce and and commerce except for Commerce feeds into successful advertising but that point to side, I've noticed that it's easier for companies like that to ramp up without that's where I can just jump off exorbitant customer acquisition cost any news to companies that are purely there to sell a product to a consumer. Scot: [28:51] Yep cuz I already have the audience it's just kind of kind of matching the products already to the pre-established cap that they stay. Web: [28:58] Correct they already have the audience so when you so in that context, the reason why I carries a successful or an away is successful or a glossy a successful is because they already have the audience in their own way away is done a great job of tree sticks with them, company to launch a new product they have tens of thousands of people in the CRM to sell to. Agua CA she's a referral traffic is from into the Boston is dead they just recently went on to buy Facebook ads in the last 2 or 3 months. There are nine figure annual revenue company this morning so that's the common thread and I I'm surprised that more. Drive to Consumer brands on understand that. Scot: [29:44] Yeah yeah there's some of the media companies have tried this stuff and kind of failed miserably to kind of the big guys don't seem to get right. Web: [29:52] What's what's up with the top one in your mind because I I feel like Community first and then I'll give Mike solution. Scot: [30:00] So they're worse the guys that rebranded to the terrible brand Tribune company and then like in there they tried to do some e-commerce stuff and it got lost, steel I get AMC anyone that kind of has newspapers inside of there has just been kind of challenging. Web: [30:20] I think it's always thrown out is probably in your throat list and jackthreads. I actually think that Jack threads was succeeding. It was exceeding Jason Ross is a Columbus guy used to advise me early on with Ms in, when do we need salt to throw away I actually think that it was it did it that the company can be complementary I think that that that that girl Weston that ordered that media organization want to. Raise capital on a media valuation on the timer salutation obviously there's a premium on being in the evaluation and that affected that relationship. But, she's doing really well under that system it's a shame that they shut it down and made it seem that that Thomas was not exceeding. Scot: [31:13] Cool we'll be watching that closely let's give it a little bit it wouldn't be a Jason Scott show if we didn't talk a little bit about Amazon and what what do you make of Amazon just generally and are they this Unstoppable Force I would love to hear yours a rock with you that I'd love to kind of feather and how you think some of these brands should think about Amazon are they they friend or frenemy. Web: [31:39] That's a lot of questions yes they are an Unstoppable Force they cannot be broken up. I'm going to Weis you want but that's my that's my summary, they are both friend and foe to Brandon's I think that brands have to be extraordinary really Savvy when they decide to partner with Amazon. Otherwise they won't end up getting burnt but as you saw this week with the recent development Amazon is partnering with Adobe. It's one of those Magento Strikes Back situation where that partnership will allow consumer Brands early-stage direct consumer Brands to build stores. On top of Amazon's logistic structure instead of having to you build a store. Pasta market and recruited 3pl issued to move the product. Yes I feed the Amazons continuing to find ways to show me entire ecosystem and as long as they make consumers happy and they are. Scot: [32:49] Gold and then you kind of hinted that you know you have to be kind of prudent this are you talking about Amazon you are kind of taking a bunch of data and coming out with a competing products I've noticed they're they're being very aggressive and the mattress base review. Web: [33:04] Yes that's exactly what I mean there's always a chance that if you have a product that can that can be easily knocked off your you're going to pay for your participation. Scot: [33:15] Yes it's a how do you know when someone comes to you for advice on that is the answer if it's easily knocked off don't sell on Amazon or is it you know a more nuanced kind of thing or how do you advise books on it. Web: [33:29] It's the 41 stye eye tend to say that you should you should have a category of product that you're comfortable selling on Amazon whether it's your your your shell products or or maybe like you're cheaper. Your cheaper skews beings that do not cannibalize your existing audience and your own platform. Jason: [33:53] Yeah that makes sense and I think we've heard from some of the some of the brands that are both direct-to-consumer and having a successful presents on Amazon like a tuft and needle that there's, sort of a product delineation strategy what are there you know there's a arrangers use that they'll only sell direct to Consumers and then there's the rain just use, the doll maker available on Amazon and now there's even Amazon exclusive. Web: [34:22] Correct I think that's the way to do it. Jason: [34:25] Yeah I know that's seems like that makes a lot of sense of night they at least make that strategy what pretty, pretty robust I want to touch on one thing you mentioned cuz we haven't covered in on the show yet and will probably do a little deeper dive in a in an upcoming new show but you you reference, announcement that I think was yesterday that, Magento which is not owned by Adobe is launching a new partnership with Amazon where I sent you a you can run a, your own URL Magento sites, that it's pre-integrated to all the Amazon infrastructure so you can leverage fulfillment by Amazon and Amazon payment and it is essentially a way to have your own destination on the web, I'm for sellers that are primarily been using using Amazon and it's for real Old-Timers like Scott and I don't want to our age, Amazon actually offered a product like that themselves called Amazon webstore that they discontinued in 2015 so this is a interesting play to see. [35:29] Adobe facilitating that now, you know cuz one thing is if they also announced that sitting on Amazon web services and you know that if that ends up being the the hosting strategy for Magento in the cloud, that that's going to be an interesting conundrum you know there are a lot of retailers that are going to want to operate their their e-commerce site on Adobe web services the more I agree with you I found that to be an interesting, news this week. Scot: [36:01] What will the floods concerned about you know these Brands seeing just your Amazon sales presumably now Amazon can see everything your shipping and I don't think they would look inside of your AWS pull and see what's going on inside their but they'll definitely you know they can see wow you sold you know, 80 widgets a day on Amazon and worshipping 300 seems like there's a pretty big Direct business here so you don't have to run your whole infrastructure, how many people adopt. Web: [36:38] I'm anxious to see myself it's going to be a test for a lot of companies especially if they hope to streamline speed and availability from the logistics tampon. Scot: [36:48] Yep and it feels like they're shooting it's a fire shot over shopify's bad because shopify's been mopping up Webbie be done any research of like the platforms are these companies choose it just anecdotally it feels like Shopify is got like 80% or something. Web: [37:04] Without a doubt I just it's one pole vault I've worked with several of these companies, I I've consulted Bigcommerce I'm very close to photoshop 5 have a lot of fix my inner circle. Love what a Dobies hoping to do with Magento whole body issue. I want to say was 6 weeks ago. I said. If you are directing superbrand today which platform do you use to launch on Shopify webflow eCommerce a big Commerce or Magento it was 96% shop. With over 400 boat. Jason: [37:49] Yeah that I hadn't seen that, that skewed by that that's early Echoes my own antidotal impression is it just it feels like Shopify is totally one that face so it makes sense that, Magento Adobe had to do something big to try to disrupt that that pattern, on a side note you know Walmart has now lot like they've acquired some did you need a Brands but they'd actually launched a couple of their own he wants to abetting brand Caldwell House when I'm home but this week they wants to another one that's a premium bicycle brand called by Athens, and what would I find fascinating about those two Brands you can't buy either of them on Walmart.com you can only buy them on their own websites and these two, Brands websites that are owned by Walmart and invented by Walmart are hosted on Shopify Plus so you. [38:42] Despite the fact that Walmart owns you know their own proprietary you know multibillion-dollar e-commerce platform they that they also are turning the Shopify for these, these sort of a Nation brand self to watch on a, slightly Gigi note the Adobe announcement seemed to imply that these stores could do everedge fulfillment by Amazon and map was particular interesting to me I'm eager to learn more because, it wasn't Euro in Amazon was encouraging you to use them for all your fulfillment whether it was sold on Amazon or not but in the in recent times it feels like, they're Amazon's capacity has been so constrained that they really like curtailed your ability to to ship goods from fulfillment by Amazon for orders that weren't collected on the platform so so it's going to be interesting to see whether, whether this is a pivot back or not but. [39:41] Putting them on the shelf or second and turning back to the the broad direct-to-consumer topic one of the things that's frustrating to me as a consultant is, that the DTC companies have so much Buzz that I I frequently like go to these digital days and you know all these sort of, multi consultant events and I share a lot of my counterparts, sort of talking about deceiving the future and then one has to move Daddy to see you and that's going to be the model that winds, and you mentioned that you're sure a little barishan on a lot of these companies I'm equally bearish and the thing that I keep noticing is, me and you talked about the incumbent then in particular you'd like the cpg space like the Procter & Gamble in the universe and there's a scary stabbed that none of them have invented, any, no billion dollar brands in the last 10 years I know three, companies and you know she hear all these people talking about how it's all these Challenger Brands brands that are eating the, the incumbents lunch. [40:51] But none of these DLC brands have hit 3, as yet either you know for your point they've all raised a ton of money from investors that that need them to hit three commas, in order to have a successful exit so they're in this weird space where where do they have to get to a billion dollars and sales at least, and embrace you of any have ever achieve that, and I've noticed there's a third category that seems wildly more successful than either of the other two and this is what I'm curious about your thoughts. [41:24] It's these new brands that are being launched by the retailer Target in the last 5 years has watch five brands that have sold over a billion dollars. And you know Kroger has some of the most successful brands in the world that they've created themselves that's it's some of the interesting like the DTC brands are, are having a lean into whole wholesale distribution for Tech but the guys are really winning are these retailers that are kind of falling, some of the the components of the DDC Playbook but they're but they're leveraging the the huge audience that they already have in terms of Shoppers that are coming in their store if you. You think I'm wrong there if you seen that as what. Web: [42:03] I don't think that you're wrong at all I think it just goes back to the conversation you're having earlier but you're having great success with these private label Brands because they have an audience. Allow these directions to Consumer brands have underestimated how difficult it is to develop an audience that you're not paying. And that's where the advantage shifts The Leverage ships back to the incumbent. Jason: [42:33] Yeah no for sure and then I eat I do think when your return you have a portfolio of ways to monetize that same audience it's a huge advantage and in that way I think some of these DDC native companies that are a category like glossy a that you know is doing really well in the entire category seems like they have an intrinsic advantage over, a lot of these d2c companies that still feel like single Product Company. Web: [43:00] I would agree wholeheartedly one of my most one of my recent post was about the importance of these direct to Consumer brands that are essentially products companies. Converting or or I guess graduating to becoming category Brands the only way that you'll succeed is if you are a category brands. Can you name can you name one of these to record one of these directions to my brands that stayed in one lane sold one product all the way through you can't. Bonobo started his pants I mean that's not the best example because they simply sold for life. Every word they raised through in a million + 8/330. So I never use bonobos as an example but but there are others even even the Dollar Shave Club became of a category brand before they before they, before the accident carries category they owned half of half of the target. Away becoming a category brand obviously glossy the category brand allbirds is Shifting in that direction Evelyn is Shifting in that direction it's only a matter of time in the company that aren't prepared to do that are going to be left behind. Scot: [44:12] Let some, it's coming up soon to kind of play the chessboard out and when you do you what do you think happens to to kind of retailers and then we're super barishon malls here on the Jason and Scott show so where do you see balls also in the hole by Future. Web: [44:32] Yeah I haven't I got a nuanced answer you want the answer to that I'm not barisan almost embarrassed on the middle class. Embarrassing the middle class in general. I believe that that subset of America consumer is struggling the most to maintain their to their place in society. And you're seeing it reflected in every every retail marker malls the malls in a middle-class are struggling. I've been to some wonderful cheer animals in Columbus you have Easton. You know obviously Hudson yards will have to be exactly does New York needed to be a success in Miami you have Bal Harbour. Not like there are numerous examples of of malls that cater to the upper middle class and higher that better almost invulnerable. Obviously there are the numerous Bargain Bin sellers that are appealing to you know economy buyers, what is the middle class in all of those retailers are getting eaten up at warp speed, that's where you're bullish this comes from or saw your tears just comes from with respect balls that's, yes there are stores closing because they're closing after after months and years of dwindling demand from The Middle. Jason: [46:01] Yeah know and we've actually kind of hit that topic several times on the show, Casey will MBA from Deloitte talks a lot about this and a great consumer bifurcation in that you don't essentially is is the same thing that you know there's, increasingly affluent consumers on there's a you know a lot of successful businesses that cater to them and there's importunately. Increasingly financially distressed consumers and there's there's businesses unit value based businesses that are doing really well catering to them but it's the. [46:33] People stuck in the uncomfortable middle that you know don't seem to have a great future. [46:39] I did have one other like start a question about how some of these days you'll need to Brands Play In traditional retail mall or otherwise we started off the show talking about Harry's and some of the, other clever things that they've done and I don't know we mention on the podcast but I know you mentioned that in your report there's a lot of speculation that carries with predominantly, sold the retail so I think between J.Crew and Target like you know the the number is I've heard or like 80% of their revenue came from those, does retail stores versus their their direct consumer e-commerce presents and there's a, like from customer acquisition standpoint you you could totally understand that like you know obviously that if they're selling those razors at wholesale to Target and J.Crew that would be you Julie margin iroso, but the the interesting thing I have heard and I'm curious if you've heard the same thing is that because Harry's built a really desirable premium. [47:40] Brand before they went to these retailers and they didn't use these retailers to build a brand that use these retailers to amplify the brand that they already built. The dude actually able to negotiate terms with the retailers that were not traditional wholesale economic terms. And so I've been led to believe that that Harry's was much more profitable for Harry's in Target than a nutritional consumer goods at Target with cell. Web: [48:09] Target benefited greatly from cherries from Harry's involvement, what are the what are the prime directors of Target management over the last 10 years just to get more Millennia since the store, need more younger Millennials to buy more products in Target and it's certain jump-started. Stop Target 2.0 with respect to their their continued Revenue growth. So yes Harry's probably had some leverage that other companies didn't but when it comes down to it Harry's get exactly what they're supposed to do baby, that they can compete in traditional retail boundaries are within traditional retail boundaries against the incumbent, the brand was strong enough to do that in over that time they they threw the guy was that that was the case there were there have been a few companies I won't name them unless you want me to that I have gone into Target and not succeeded, so so Harry's. Yo it should have been an early marker for a lot of analysts see that because they were succeeding there eventually they were going to exit in some way shape or form. Scot: [49:23] Has been a great discussion and kind of your very topical with current time and I know we're up against time so it would love for you to whip out your crystal ball and look 10 years into the future it's 2030 time frame what's what do you think retail and e-commerce look like it at that. Web: [49:46] Remind me of the Year again 20:30. Scot: [49:48] Its 2029 but I added one cuz it sounds more futuristic. Web: [49:54] Are you not have a pretty positive person but may I may I just get dark for a second. Scot: [50:04] Let's go dark. Web: [50:06] Okay I think that as the years progressed the middle class will continue to pleading. So a lot of the products and services that we see for through Amazon to Target and Walmart are all appealing to higher consumer I hire a consumer. Those products and services and retailers both digital and physical will continue to thrive over the next 10 years. But I don't think that retail in general will Thrive with it and I do think that that that we're going to see a retail induced recession in the next five seven years it will probably stagger into that from your mother. But that's that's turning the future that I'm prepared. Scot: [50:58] Go to the counter argument was we need to kind of solve the middle class problem to have a prosperous view of the world in 10 years is kind of your underlying thesis. Web: [51:05] 100% And is it very clear that no one cares about that right now. Scot: [51:10] I think we do. Web: [51:14] I I care about it. Scot: [51:14] 3 out of 300 million Americans. Web: [51:17] Sure I guess what I'm saying is that the people that have the ability to make changes now don't seem to care enough about making changes now. Scot: [51:27] Those guys yep you're right. Jason: [51:29] It is as if you look at the big history if you can and get out of our kind of Iran and look at the all spectrum of human existence so I get every time this happens it eventually gets off like you just have a revolution you Lop off the heads of all the rich guys and and you know you start to develop a middle-class again for a little while so. Web: [51:47] Problem with this is a problem with this iteration of that story is by the time that can happen either we're going to be on another planet or the rich guys are going to be another planet, material are harder to Lop off an Intergalactic head. Jason: [52:05] Yeah you are going dark you are a happier follow-up question in 20-30 has Tiger surpass Jack Nicholson Nicholas remastered. Web: [52:14] Gosh me and you're putting me on the spot listen I've never read against tiger I will root against them now the kids, he said his mind when he was 7 years old that he was going to be Batman you have to believe that he's going to fall. Jason: [52:32] Yeah I I for one I hope he does it I didn't even watch the web we are really pressing up on time so if folks want to contact you what's what's the best way to find you online. Web: [52:46] Just WEP web on Twitter or you can email me at web web at the number to p.m. l.com. Jason: [52:56] Awesome I appreciate it and it is obviously happen again we've used up all our allotted time so if folks have further questions or comments about today show we encourage you to jump on our Facebook page or hit us up on Twitter. Scot: [53:10] And what we really appreciate you taking time out of your super busy schedule doing a 8000 things you make us look like Slackers is actually pretty easy to do so we really appreciate you have being on the show. Web: [53:23] It's my other guys thank you for having me. Jason: [53:26] Until next time happy commercing.

Web Smith has a long history working in direct-to-consumer and e-commerce. He managed marketing spend for Rogue, a leading sports goods manufacturer back in 2011 before co-founding Mizzen + Main and later joining Gear Patrol. In 2015 he founded 2PM, a B2B media company for the commerce industry and advises leading executives in the space. Through 2PM Web also invests in early-stage DTC brands and platforms that support the consumer ecosystem. If you've ever thought about starting your own DTC brand or online shop, you'll want to heed Web's advice. In this episode Ryan and Web talk about... The state of direct-to-consumer today “It’s going to become a battle to discern which companies have sticking power and what a possible exit will look like. Casper’s potential IPO will set a standard for other brands looking to exit. We’re also looking at a lot of companies developing holding companies for these types of brands.” Web points out that only 12% of transactions are e-commerce today — the remaining 88% comes via physical retail. Trends in the industry and how it has evolved over the years “The industry’s filling up pretty quickly. It’s a really dense area for people who want to become founders. They’re highly educated, from great schools, and funding is easy to come by in the DTC space for the time being. So they’re coming out of the gates from Wharton or wherever with millions of dollars in the bank and they’re probably going to get to the next milestone because they have the right founders, the right teams, and the right money. That’s the story of tens if not hundreds of consumer brands in the last two years.” Direct-to-consumer has for several years been a hot area for founders and investors. He talks about some of the trends he's seen in the space, including which growth strategies have been effective and how companies will need to evolve in the coming years as the landscape shifts. They also discuss companies like Casper and Warby Parker getting into brick-and-mortar sales, even as they are the poster children for the disruption of brick-and-mortar. What Web would do if he was creating a direct-to-consumer brand today “If I was starting a DTC brand today, I would actually start with a media company. I would launch a newsletter or blog a year or two before. It’s worth your while to develop an organic base of people that are interested in the product that they have. I know that sounds counterintuitive but you’re seeing a premium on the brands that have that type of organic acquisition” He says that paid acquisition is a commonly used strategy by DTC CMOs but that it is quickly becoming cost-prohibitive. He predicts that companies will need to adapt to different models in the future. How to think about defensibility for direct-to-consumer companies “[Ask yourself] Who are the people defending their purchases? How are they talking about their purchases to their friends and loved ones? How loyal are they? Will they come back to buy the next thing that you sell? That’s an element of defensibility that goes a bit unconsidered.” Web points out that there are plenty of informal brand ambassadors for companies with strong brands. He says that the word-of-mouth spread of brand affinities is an underrated aspect of defensibility. How direct-to-consumer companies can create a community around their brand “When Nike released the ad with Colin Kaepernick, Nike knew what it was doing. It was going to polarize the customer base and the folks that were on their side would spend a lot of time and energy defending Nike’s decision and that would amplify the brand for those defenders.” He says that companies need to think about their consumers in terms of one-to-many relationships instead of the one-to-one model that has been the primary model to date. Web talks about some of the communities that are forming around certain brands and how companies can encourage the creation of those communities. They also discuss some of their favorite e-commerce or direct-to-consumer brands and companies, and Web breaks down why those companies have been successful. We’ll be back next week so be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Breaker, Overcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Big thanks to Pilot for their support.

We have the pleasure of sitting down with Role Tea CEO and co-founder Mike Johnson to discuss the topic of entrepreneurship while other and what building an effective network looks like for underrepresented communities. Connect with Mike (and Role Tea) on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikecjohnson1/https://www.linkedin.com/company/role-tea/about/Learn more about Role Tea:https://www.drinkroletea.com/https://www.instagram.com/roletea/?hl=enhttps://twitter.com/getroletea?lang=enhttps://www.facebook.com/GetRoleTea/Connect with us: https://linktr.ee/livingcorporateTRANSCRIPTZach: My grandfather was born in Mississippi and was a sharecropper on a cotton farm. With only an elementary education, he eventually moved to a small Illinois town to work for John Deere. After working for over 20 years, he established his wealth through entrepreneurship, namely real estate. "Remember," he would say to me as a child, "jobs are to pay your bills. If you want to be successful and make real money, do something else." Though he was successful, his journey was challenging and fraught with various hardship. It actually reminds me of an excerpt from a piece from Inc Magazine authored by Web Smith called "What It Really Means to Be a Black Entrepreneur in America," and I quote, "Regardless of race or ethnicity, entrepreneurs always begin at a disadvantage. However, blacks tend to need to reach levels of traction with our own money since seed money is often unavailable. This contributes to the rarity of URM entrepreneurs. Richard Kirby, vice president of Vinrock, recently compiled a list that reported a total of 23 African-American investors in the U.S. It should be of no surprise that black founders receive less than 1% of institutional capital. As important as money is the ability to realize your potential through mentorship and direction. This begins with confidence, belonging, and familiarity." End quote. Listen to that. Confidence, belonging, and familiarity. Networking is the catalyst for each of these things, but what does building such networks look like for underrepresented communities? My name is Zach, and you're listening to Living Corporate.Ade: So today we're talking about entrepreneurship and what it means to be an entrepreneur as a non-white person.Zach: I'm glad that we're dedicating an episode to this. Living Corporate isn't just about working for someone else, but also we want to explore ways in which you can work for yourself.Ade: For sure, and shout-out to your grandpa. That's an amazing story.Zach: Yeah, it's inspiring for sure, and while it's impressive--you know, he built his empire through real estate in a small Midwestern town after building up decades of social equity by being in the community, right? Like, he bought homes, like, no one else was really wise enough to invest in, then he fixed them himself, then he managed all of his own maintenance on this homes.Ade: Wow. Yeah, I mean, he weaved his own boot straps out of thin air and then pulled himself up by them. Like, he's an amazing success story, no doubt. To your point, in 2019, the world is just way more connected and social, which is cool, but it also creates more invisible hurdles and roles and just stuff to navigate in being a full-time or even moderately successful part-time entrepreneur, right? And those three things that you quoted--confidence, belonging, and familiarity--those are all needed in the hyper-connected world.Zach: It's just funny, 'cause I was telling a colleague that because of that fact that entrepreneurship success is built on access to capital, which lie in relationships, that people of color are well-benefitted by having partners and backing that don't really look like them, and I remember I had this conversation, and you would think this person, like, thought that I had said, I don't know, just something, like, really racist or, like--"What are you talking about? What are you trying to say? I mean, anybody can do anything." I was like, "OK, all right. Yes, we can do anything." And it also helps to know the right people so that we can have access to things, so that we can do the things that we want. I mean, like, let's be realistic. It frustrates me sometimes when we talk about, like, success and striving to do better and building things that we don't acknowledge, like, the very real capitalist structures that exist, right? Not even that we're fighting against, but that we have to plug into to be successful. Like, come on. Like, this is America. Everybody does not--everybody with a great idea does not wake up and then work really hard towards that idea and then somehow, like, become successful. There's plenty of people out there with great ideas who work very hard who are never successful, right?Ade: Right, and because people of color often don't have access to power or the relationships or the rooms in which these bills are being made in these countries to be movers and shakers there's a bit of a disadvantage. Let's look at the most prominent black clothing brand ever, FUBU. Long story short, FUBU popped off by having a relationship with LL Cool J, and yes, that LL Cool J. He is black, but guess who else LL Cool J had a commercial partnership with? Gap. He plugged FUBU in the middle of a Gap promotional commercial, and he did it while he was rapping, so nobody who was on set or was clearing the ad afterwards really noticed.Zach: Right, and it's a crazy story, but people just forget about that and the fact that Damon John, he had a ton of creative methods to promote FUBU, right? Like, he had a ton of different ways he was kind of getting it out on the street, but it was that Gap commercial--that's the one that really got 'em on the map and really--anyone who studies FUBU and studies, like, advertising, they know about the LL commercial, right? Like, it's common knowledge that's--that was the tipping point for that brand, and so, like, the point is entrepreneurship is changing already. Like, the majority of entrepreneurs don't make it, but being someone who doesn't have advantages built on centuries of historical inequity makes it even harder. Not to say it isn't possible. I'm not saying that it's impossible at all, it's just--it's just hard.Ade: Correct. Wouldn't it be dope if we had an entrepreneur with, let's say, over a 15-year track record of successfully launching dozens of new products or services in the food and beverage media and industrial goods industry? In fact, I would love to hear from someone who has experience maybe launching a brand from concept to the shelf of three of the top ten grocery chains in the country.Zach: Oh, you mean like our guest Mike C. Johnson?Ade and Zach: Whaaaaaat?Zach: [imitates air horns, then Sound Man supplies them] Y'all thought we weren't gonna have these air horns this season. Y'all thought. That's right. We still here with these air horns. We are here with these air horns. More fire for your head top. I'm not playing.Ade: This is really all Zach. I'm blaming it on you.Zach: Aye, drop the air horns. In fact, hold on, drop extra air horns, because we had someone who was actually from Jamaica hit us up on Instagram and say, "Please keep the air horns coming, and make them louder."Ade: Make them louder?Zach: Make them louder, so we here for y'all. We here for the people, 'cause we got it like that. We love y'all, okay?Ade: Not surprised. Not surprised in the least. All right, y'all. Keep listening for a really dope conversation.Zach: And we're back. And as we shared before the break, we have Mike Johnson with us. Welcome to the show, Mike. How are you doing?Mike: I'm doing good, man. How are you doing?Zach: I'm doing really good, man. So today we're talking about entrepreneurship. So can you tell me--where did your entrepreneurial itch come from or start with?Mike: Oh, man. I really can trace it back to my early 20s. I had a couple ventures around that time that I went after. I had a website called VirtualREGallery, which was basically a website that displayed virtual tours of real estate listings before virtual tours were pretty popular. I was a realtor for a little while, and I also did some construction on the side. So I've always kind of had that aspiration to somewhat control my own destiny, but I would say what really motivated me to start Role Tea was just as I learned more about marketing and innovation, I always just had this dream to want to turn an idea or a vision to a concept and go start to finish and pretty much have complete control over how that product will come to market. So that to me has been the most gratifying part of entrepreneurship. Even to this day when I walk into a store or restaurant and I see someone, you know, drinking Role Tea and, you know, just randomly, that to this day still makes me a little excited, 'cause I'm like, "Man, 3 years ago that product was just an idea in my head, and now people can actually purchase it and consume it in a store." So that's just probably the most gratifying thing, to have that control over the idea from start to finish.Zach: That's amazing. And, you know, you talking about your previous ventures, it reminds me of another question that--you know, in season 1 we had a guest who brought up the concept of failing forward--failing quickly and failing forward, so can you talk a little bit about that concept and perhaps what some of your biggest Ls--and we'll say Ls are lessons--that you've taken in your entrepreneurial journey?Mike: Yeah, man. That's a great question. The crazy thing for me about failure that I've learned in this experience is that--you know, I've realized that you really only fail at almost anything when you quit. Like, going into this venture, you know, sometimes your mind can play tricks on you. You start thinking about the worst things that could happen and failure and whatnot, but when you get into it you realize that, man, virtually everything that happens to a business can be resolved if you have the fortitude to try to work through it. So, I mean, you know, we're no different. Like, you know, everyone talks about the great side of entrepreneurship, but man, we've had at least four or five near-death experiences with our company in 2 years. Like, you know, from running out of cash, which a lot of startups have that issue with running out of money, to, you know, having key suppliers back out last minute, literally weeks before launching into Wegmans, which is a 95+ grocery chain from Virginia up to upstate New York, to having distributors back out the last minute. I mean, all of these things have taken out other companies, but for us we just looked at it as, you know, "Okay, here's another problem." You know, "What are our options just to get past it?" And you kind of take it on the chin and move forward. So, you know, you really only fail at almost anything when you quit or when you run out of, you know, hands to play. So once you realize that and you realize that, "Wow," you know, "what happens with me and this business is largely up to my control," it's kind of empowering once you realize that. But as far as just lessons in general around business, to me the two biggest lessons that come to mind for me is--the first one is just starting as small as you can until you can completely the validate the concept, and when I say validate the concept I mean that, you know, you have a product or a concept that people are gonna want to buy, where the economics of it will actually be able to create a business, right? There's a lot of ideas out there that you can sell, but you're never gonna get the price point that you need to actually have a business. Making sure that you actually know who the consumer is. You know how to talk to them or the channels to sell to them. Those are all the things that are required to really validate a concept, and it's best to try to do that on a very small scale to start. That's definitely been a lesson that we've learned early on, and then I think the second big lesson that I've learned in this in terms of failure as well is just trying to get the business to a point where it can be self-sustainable as quickly as possible, right? So right now we're going through some pretty, you know, dramatic changes around our operations to get a little bit more margin back in house versus giving it to a supplier or an outsourced vendor, and that's just all in an effort to get our business to a point where it can pretty much eat off of what it kills, right? We can sustain ourselves based on our own selves as opposed to relying too much on outside investments. So that's a piece of advice I would give to any aspiring entrepreneur. Even if you want to raise capital, it's just good to have financial discipline to try to get your business as self-sustainable as possible as quickly as possible. So there's many lessons, but those two stand out the most.Zach: And so, you know, you've talked--you talked a little bit about Role Tea, and we're definitely gonna get into that as we get further along in this interview. I'm curious to know about your ventures. Could you--would you mind walking us through? Typically when I meet--the reason I ask your ventures is because typically when I meet entrepreneurs, they may have, like, one big thing, but they have a few other things kind of cooking around them. So I'm curious to know, what are your ventures right now?Mike: No, yeah, that is very true. We tend to have short attention spans, so it's easy to kind of get involved with different things. You know, we launched Role Tea in December, November timeframe of 2016, so we're right at the 2 years, and to be honest, man, aside from, you know, being a new father, which I actually became a father the same year I became an entrepreneur with Role Tea, that's been my primary focus. Now that Role Tea is a little bit more established in terms of distributors and it doesn't take as much of me doing virtually everything to keep it going, I am starting to get back a little bit into consulting. That's something that I did prior to launching Role Tea, so I do like to work with other startups and help them however way I can, but aside from that, man, the bulk of my focus right now is with Role Tea.Zach: What challenges do you believe that you've had as a black entrepreneur? And I ask that because in the research that Ade and I have been doing, we've noticed that there are some challenges that are unique to being a non-white builder of businesses, and so I'm curious to know, like, if you--have you run into any challenges that you believe are unique juxtaposed to your white counterparts? And if so, what are they?Mike: Entrepreneurship, just inherent in the way it is, is already built with plenty of challenges. White, black, yellow, whatever. So sometimes it can be a challenge to understand, "Okay, is this a challenge that I'm facing because I'm simply an entrepreneur, or is this a challenge that I'm facing because I'm a black entrepreneur?" And that can be difficult sometimes to decipher, but one challenge that I think is definitely tied to us being, you know, African-American [and own a business,] especially in the food and beverage industry. It's just the fact that, you know, we are launching a beverage brand that is--our intent is to scale to 100+ million in sales and potentially exit, so we're treating our business like a true startup, not like a family-owned business where we're just, you know, looking to sell locally and et cetera, and I think that that's a very different thing in the food and beverage industry amongst a black entrepreneur that most people would expect. So I think that just simply not having a whole lot of examples to point to of black-owned food and beverage brands that have been able to do that successfully makes it hard for a lot of people to see the vision and see the potential in our concept, and I think that's especially true primarily with investors. We've actually had, you know, pretty good success with, for example, some major retailers. We've gotten our product onto the shelves of Whole Foods, of Wegmans. Those are two of the top-rated grocery chains in the country. Hy-Vee is another one. You know, but from a business standpoint, I think that's where we've seen most of the challenge in terms of, you know, working with investors and things of that nature, and I think that's largely because there's just not a whole lot of examples of African-American-owned food and beverage brands that have done it to that level, which is what we're aspiring to do. So I'm sure that there is plenty more, but that's definitely one that I can say for certain I think is unique to us.Zach: So what advice would you give to the person who thinks, you know, entrepreneurship is an all-or-nothing thing and it isn't--they're not starting their journey because they're afraid of missing a steady paycheck?Mike: Yeah, man. That's definitely something that is--I find is very common amongst a lot of people. I struggle with that myself. The first thing is you don't have to be all in to be an entrepreneur, right? Don't listen to everything that you see on Instagram and, you know, social media. There's a lot of people out here glamorizing entrepreneurship, and entrepreneurship is great, right? I spent 12+ years in the corporate world, and now I'm 2 years as an entrepreneur, so I can give you the perspective of both sides, and there's definitely a lot of advantages on the entrepreneur side, but there is nothing wrong with side-hustling it for as long as you can, right? That extra paycheck from your job is--it actually can position your business to be more successful, you know? Thankfully I have 12+ years of experience in the corporate world working for other people, learning, collecting that nice six-figure salary so that I can actually build up a savings to even have a chance to do what I'm doing now. So it's all about when is the right time for you, even if you ever want to go all in, right? All in meaning you're full-time with your entrepreneurship venture, but that's the first thing. Don't feel pressured to go all in, right? And when you go all in is another big question that I hear a lot, and it's also one that I--challenge that I dealt with, and, you know, there's no right or wrong answer. Everyone has to lok at their particular situation to know when is the right time, but I will say that there's probably about four or five things that, you know, anyone that's in that situation is looking to do, to transition, to go all in, they should be looking at. Like, the first thing is, you know, what does your business require? Like, for example, if you're gonna launch a catering business versus a restaurant, you know, they're two very different demands and requirements, right? When you're talking about a restaurant, you have to deal with a storefront, which likely comes with remodeling, et cetera. Not the typical type of thing that you can get, you know, to market on the weekends and evenings, right? Whereas a catering service, you can do that evenings, weekends. You can pretty much side-hustle that until you actually get paying customers before you even have to leave your job. So the type of business that you're looking to start a lot of times will dictate largely when you can actually go all in or if and when you can actually cut the 9-to-5 path. The other thing you've got to look at is, you know, what type of support do you have going into it, right? Do you have people, whether it's family members or friends, that can help you out early on without having to get paid, right? I mean, early on there's no cash coming in. To get it stood up, you're gonna need people to help. You're gonna need your team. What type of support do you have? If you have a pretty good support system, you may be able to go all in a little bit sooner. Also you've got to look at, you know, what are your responsibilities in terms of financially and with people, right? Are you 21 years old, no kids, no family, very low bills? You know, that gives you a whole lot more flexibility in terms of what you can do sooner and the risks that you can take, whereas if you are--like, in my situation, I started, you know, Role Tea already in my mid-30s. Like I said, I'm a father, newly father, so I have to move a lot different in that situation.Zach: Congratulations on that, by the way.Mike: Oh, I definitely appreciate it, man. Fatherhood is a lot of fun, a lot of fun. But yeah, you have to move a lot different if you have a lot of financial responsibilities and people responsibilities. Obviously you have to be a little bit more smart about when you go all in. You also might have to look at are there skills that you just don't have yet but you need to develop before you go all in, right? And then lastly, this is probably often times, you know, skipped and not really taken into consideration, but you definitely have to look at what's your appetite for risk and uncertainty, right? Once you pull the plug on that 9-to-5 and you're all in, you know, on the good side is it really motivates you to have a sense of urgency, to move forward fast, but at the same time it can also be stressful by not having that paycheck coming in every week or two or whatever it was you got paid, and that can definitely cause a lot of stress and anxiety, and if you're the type of person that doesn't deal well with that type of uncertainty and stress, #1: you're probably going to struggle as an entrepreneur, 'cause that's gonna come naturally, but that may also dictate you keeping your business as a side hustle a little bit longer. So I never tell someone exactly what to do in that situation, but I would definitely tell you that those are probably the four or five things that you should be thinking about in your situation to determine, you know, when you go all in or if you go all in at all.Zach: And so, you know--and I alluded to this earlier about some of your challenges as a black entrepreneur, but the research I was speaking to specifically had to do with the variance in acquiring capital, right? So venture capital, angel investments, and other types of non-business loan-sourced funding. I'm curious, have you had any challenges in acquiring that type of funding, and really what's been your journey in building those relationships with those with access with the capital to help your ventures?Mike: Yeah, that's a great question. It's definitely one of the bigger challenges that I'm finding with not just our business but other black-owned entrepreneurs, and it's a complex one, which I--I know that this is probably an area of business that's foreign to a lot of people, so I definitely want to make sure I kind of break this down because, you know, I have an MBA, but yet 3 years ago I didn't understand hardly anything about the idea of raising capital. I've had to learn a lot through this venture, and the challenges that are unique to African-Americans is--it's kind of a snowball effect, so let me explain it like this. So investment in startups typically happens in a progression, right? So, you know, the first step is typically money out of your own pocket, right? So that's called bootstrapping, right? Maybe you've worked in the corporate world for a number of years, you've built up some savings. Maybe you got an inheritance. Whatever the case may be, right? But you need some sort of cash to get things going very early on. That's typically the first step. Second step is you look to friends and family, right? "Who do I know in my own personal network?" Friends, family, associates, that have the means to write a $10, 20, 30, 50,000 check or more, right? That's the second step, and then once you get past that, then you get into what's called angel investors, which are typically either high net worth or high-income individuals who choose to invest in startups, right? And then lastly you get to venture capital, which essentially are, you know, funds that investors who are called limited partners, or LPs, invest in, and they then have managers of those funds look for startups to invest in, right? And they can go from $500,000 up to, you know, $100,000,000, right? They write very large checks. So that's the typical progression of a startup raising capital for their business. So let's think about that, right? Now, what we know about African-Americans is we traditionally have a lower income than non-whites. We also traditionally have a lower net worth, which is probably more significant, than whites. So going back to the very first step in that progression, right? Most of us could struggle with having the means to even bootstrap, to have that $20, 30, 50,000 just to get started, right? Because of the points that I just made, right? And if you get past that hurdle, then now you have to find friends and family that also can write that $10, 15, 20,000 check or more. Again, that's a struggle that's unique for African-Americans moreso than others because of the points that I just made. So right out the gate as an African-American entrepreneur you have some disadvantages, right? And VCs and angels, you have to get past those first couple stages typically before they're even interested in looking at your business, right? And the crazy thing about investment, the investment world, that I've learned is investors rely significantly on their personal networks to even be introduced to an entrepreneur to invest in. So they're--again, how many African-Americans have the social network, the connections that people that have that kind of means to write those checks, right? So it's a snowball effect that, collectively speaking, puts us at a disadvantage, and again, that's definitely a challenge that is well-documented. We've experienced it. Other founders that we know have experienced it, but, you know, how you deal with that is--again, I don't want to make it sound simple, but the first thing that we've tried to do is just bridge that gap in terms of relationships, right? And that's really done largely by just putting yourself out there, putting yourself in situations to meet people that can invest in your brand. So, you know, the very first angel investor that we had we met at the Black Enterprise Entrepreneurs Summit last year. We were chosen as a finalist to pitch in that competition, so, you know, we got a lot of visibility at that show down in Houston last year. We met with our first investor there, our first angel investor I should say, and, you know, months down the road after the rapport was established he decided to invest in us, right? So that was an example of where we had to kind of bridge that gap by just going out and making those connections, and then the second thing really is just--you know, you have to have the mindset that you're gonna make your startup undeniable, right? You know, if someone says no now, which we've definitely heard tons of nos, and you're gonna hear nos. Raising capital is very difficult for any startup, so you have to have the mindset that, you know, "Okay, you say no today, but we're gonna build up the traction that we need over the next 6 months to 12 months to the point where if you say no you're basically foolish," right? So you just have to make your startup--you have to make your startup undeniable, 'cause everyone likes to make money, and I think it's a little bit more of a challenge to show that we can do that, but, you know, if you can definitely demonstrate that, people will invest in your startup. It's just a little bit difficult for us for those reasons.Zach: That's just such a great point around--especially when you started--when you talked about, like, the various levels of investment, right? So I'll even use Living Corporate as an example. For us, you know, I'm one of the few people in my family even in corporate America. We don't all have money like that. I certainly would not--I don't even feel comfortable. I mean, and some of that might just be culture too, Mike. I don't feel comfortable walking to a member of my family talking about, "Hey, would you mind investing $10,000 to help us hire writers and videographers and so on, so on, and so forth," and really invest in Living Corporate. Like, what? You know what I mean? Like, just the thought of that, right? And then, you know, we had an episode again in season 1 when we were talking about family [inaudible]--like, the wealth gap. The wealth inequality gap, and there's plenty of research to show that in the next 10, 20 years, that the average value of a black home will be zero dollars, right? So you're talking about the fact that starting up and getting all this capital, for a community who has no money--like, we don't have the centuries of privilege and things of that nature to have an uncle or a second cousin who can write a check, right? And I think that's just a really good point. You know, I'm curious about Role Tea, so let's dig into that a little bit more. So first off, when can Living Corporate get a case of the tea?Mike: I'm always open to giving Role Tea to whoever wants it, so yeah, I'll let you go with the second question.Zach: [laughs] Okay, so we're good on the tea. And then why tea? Why Role Tea, and then what was the inspiration behind Role Tea?Mike: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, we definitely got you on the case. No problem there. As far as the inspiration for the tea, we always say on the--we launched the tea 2 years ago, but the idea for Role Tea really started probably in my early 20s more than 10 years ago where I had the experience of losing 100 pounds, right? So, you know, I'm like 22 years old, and I get that scale shock where I go to the doctor and--I know I'm obviously way too big, but I didn't realize I had actually gone over 300 pounds, and I'm like, "Man," like, "Okay, something's gotta change." So at that point my relationship with food changed, and I learned that, you know, a lot of the traditional foods and beverages that I had consumed, that were, you know, typically less than healthy, right, if I'm creative I can remix those recipes to be better for me, still taste good, and actually serve a purpose to either help me feel better or perform better, and so, you know, over the course of the next 2 to 3 years I lost 100 pounds just, you know, changing the way I ate and exercising more, et cetera. So fast forward to 2015. At this time I was training for a boxing match. I'm a huge boxing fan. I've boxed for several years. Anyone that knows me knows that I'm passionate about boxing just as I am about business, but I was training for a boxing match in 2015, and I noticed--again, now in my mid-30s, you know, after training, what used to take a day or two to feel normal again, not feel sore, not feel stiff, was now taking 2 or 3 days, right? So I started to research beverages that I could drink--you know, not supplements, but just every day traditional beverages--Zach: Natural.Mike: Yeah, natural beverages that I could incorporate into my diet that may help, and so, you know, that's when I learned about ingredients like tumeric and ginger and, you know, green tea and tart cherries, which all have natural anti-inflammatory properties, and so I looked for options in the store, and virtually everything I saw was $6 or $7 bottles of juice, [inaudible] sugar. So, you know, my background is in innovation, new product development and launches, so I immediately saw a business opportunity. I went to a friend of mine named Corey Benson with the idea, and he has an operations background. He was running a manufacturing plant at the time, and he said, "You know what, man? Like, I see people every day that are standing up at the job for 9, 10 hours a day. They're popping Aleves. They're, you know, popping Advils and drinking Mountain Dews to deal with the soreness from just their job," right? So he immediately saw the pain point that, you know, the concept that we were thinking about would address, but he saw it from a regular 9-to-5 job, whereas I was dealing with it from a weekend warrior boxing perspective, right? So we immediately saw, like, "Wow, this whole thing around inflammation and a functional beverage that can help with that has some legs, and it probably could impact a lot of people." So from there we were ready to go. We started to research the industry a lot more in 2015 and 2016. We worked with a development company to take our recipes that we had created with tea and juice and spices, like tumeric and ginger, to basically create a product that could be sold on a shelf. We chose tea because, you know, tea is a very popular drink, and it still is. Shout-out to Guru, even though he talked about lemonade. But tea's a very popular drink, and the great thing about it is, again, you know, a lot of the options before were juices, which is more expensive. Tea is a much less expensive catalyst to use to deliver functional spices and benefits, so we figured we would be able to create a functional drink that's also affordable, right? So we're probably one of the first functional beverages in stores like Whole Foods and Wegmans that was under $3 per bottle, and again--plus I'm a huge iced tea fan, right? So that was a natural ingredient, or product, to use. So, you know, we worked through the recipe process in 2016, and we launched a product literally the night before Thanksgiving in the D.C. Metro area in 2016, and, you know, we started off just very independent, selling out of the trunk of our cars, and, you know, now we're currently sold in over 100 locations, from Virginia up to upstate New York as well as a few states in the Midwest. So right now we're just, you know, looking to continue to grow the business, bring on more partners, bring on more investors, and just see how far it can go.Zach: Man, that's incredible, man. You know, and down the road, once, you know, we get this tea and we drink it, we'll make sure to shout y'all out on the podcast on the part of our Favorite Things.Mike: Definitely. Definitely do that.Zach: Yeah, man. Now, this has been a great conversation. I really want to know where people can learn more about Role Tea and where they can get some.Mike: Yeah, yeah. So Role Tea--and that's R-O-L-E, as in, like, play your role. Role Tea is sold online, so you can see us at RoleTea.com. R-O-L-E-T-E-A dot com. We're also sold on the East Coast, primarily in stores like Wegmans as well as some independent stores in the D.C. Metro area. So yeah, check us out online, RoleTea.com. A lot of good information there. You can order right through that website. Yeah.Zach: That's what's up, man. Now, look, before we get out of here, do you have any parting thoughts or shout-outs?Mike: Yeah, I definitely want to shout-out everyone that has tried Role Tea, everyone that will try Role Tea, including you, Zach. Yeah, everyone that's worked with the brand to help get us this far, to this point, definitely appreciate the support. I definitely want to shout-out my co-founder Corey Benson. Definitely want to shout-out, you know, again, everyone that's listening to this podcast. I didn't get a chance to say this before, man, but when I first heard about this podcast and what you guys are attempting to do as far as help educate people in how to navigate, you know, the world of corporate America, I'm like, "Man, that's definitely something that's needed." Like you mentioned yourself, you're a first-generation corporate professional, right? Did I hear that right?Zach: Right.Mike: Yep, so same here. You know, first in my family to, you know, get a bachelor's degree, master's degree, corporate world and, you know, going into the corporate world I'm thinking, "Okay, I'm ready for success based on my education," but I quickly learned that most of what determines your success in that world is the things that are not taught in the classroom, right? It's the soft skills. It's the implied cultural norms that are often times a little bit different than what we grew up with, so, you know, a lot of us learn those lessons on the job as opposed to being prepared beforehand. So this podcast is doing a great service to help educate young professionals on those waters before they get into them, so kudos to you guys, and again, I'm glad to be a part of this.Zach: Man, Mike, thank you so much for the kind words. Again, the drink, Role Tea--like know your role, R-O-L-E T-E-A, and we're excited to give it a little review. So I appreciate your time. We consider you a friend of the show. Can't wait to have you back, man.Mike: Definitely appreciate it, man.Zach: Peace.Mike: Peace.Ade: And we're back. I thoroughly enjoyed that interview, Zach. I mean, I've known Mike for a little while now. He's been a great friend and supporter. Like, he's always good, not only to listen to you for advice but just listen to his experiences, and how he's been able to grow Role Tea as a brand has been very inspiring, and I'm so glad that we got so much of that in that interview.Zach: No, for sure. In our discussion, and outside of it too, we talked about--just talked about his history and talked about the challenges of building up his brand and really, like, trying and failing at some other things too, but super happy he was on the show, and hopefully we'll get some--we'll get some tea out of this. He told me he'd actually send us a couple pallets. I don't know about pallets, but he said he'd send--Ade: Word?Zach: Yeah. Not pallets, 'cause pallets sounds like--Ade: 'Cause that tea is delicious.Zach: Yeah. No, I've heard it's--I haven't had any yet, but I'm positive that once I have it I'm gonna enjoy it.Ade: Okay. Well, I am keeping an eye out, because Role Tea is amazing. Anyway, awesome. Thank you, and shout-out again to Mike Johnson and Role Tea. I'm looking forward to that tea.Zach: Salute to Mike. Okay, so Favorite Things?Ade: Favorite Things. Let's go. All right.Zach: All right, cool. So look, my favorite thing right now has to be Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Now, some of y'all are like, "Super Smash Bros.? What's that?" But let me tell you something, those who know--Pusha T voice. "If you know, you know." So look, my favorite thing right now has to be Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on my Nintendo Switch. It's super fun. I play in the evening after a long day at work, and I love it because I can just kind of pick it up. I don't have to, like, sit down in front of a big TV, boot up the game. I can just pick up my handheld, boot it up. And for those who want to know, my favorite--my main character is Chrom. So again, for those who are kind of, like, outside of this whole video game space, Super Smash Bros. is a Nintendo game, right, but it's like you can, like, pick Nintendo characters against each other to fight, right? But, like, not in a, like, super violent Mortal Kombat way. More, like, kind of, like, a cartoonish, fun way, but it's a deep, deep game, right? So you can put Mario against Sonic. You can put Princess Peach against Captain Falcon or Fox or Falco or Ganondorf versus Kirby. You can do all kinds of crazy match-ups, right? Super fun, and so it's been cool. It's a really good stress reliever. That--you know, working out sometimes, you don't want to necessarily want to get up and work out. Forgive me. I don't want to work out all the time. Sometimes I just want to kind of veg out, and it's great. It's great for that. So that's my favorite thing.Ade: Okay, self-care. I see you.Zach: That's right.Ade: So my favorite thing lately has been a book called Cracking the Coding Interview. It's been invaluable, I think. I struggle--for those of you who are just joining us, just in case this is your very first Living Corporate episode ever, I am switching careers, or I'm in the process of switching careers. I'm becoming a software engineer, and part of that process is self-teaching both foundational concepts and computer science, but also understanding algorithms, binary trees. Just how the very technical elements of software engineering, something that you are supposed to pick up in a classroom that I did not have the luxury of doing, therefore I have to teach myself. And there are also books that exist out there that kind of help you through the process of thinking through and developing strategies for coding interviews. I'm discussing it like it's a journal or something like that, [inaudible], but yeah, it's been a really important book, and I've kind of been adding more and more base computer science books and algorithm books to my library, right next to Frantz Fanon and Audre Lorde. So yeah, those are my favorite things.Zach: That's a sick combination though. That's dope.Ade: I want you to know our library in our home consists of tax law code and regulations and vegan chef--vegan cookbooks and regular cookbooks and Sister Outsider. [laughs] And computer science books and data science books.Zach: That's dope though.Ade: Oh, and [Ola had a?] self-help book. So there's no way you can walk into my home and not have something to read.Zach: You're gonna have something. You're gonna learn about something.Ade: There will be something available to edify you. I even have, like, fiction novels, everything from John Green to Grisham to Tomi Adeyemi, which, again, shout-out to her.Zach: Shout-out to her. No, straight up. She's great.Ade: I'm looking up to the next book in the series, by the way. Okay, we have veered so far off track. Did you have--Zach: Good. It's a Favorite Things segment. We're supposed to turn up. It's cool.Ade: You know what? You're right. You're right. Sir, sir. Sir. [Not turning up. Cruise?]. I'm tired. [laughs]Zach: [laughs] [Turn me up. Cruise?]Ade: Nope, I'm tired of you.Zach: Okay. No, no, no, but that's dope. So look, you know, y'all, if it wasn't evident by our kickoff episode, as well as our Supporting Black Women at Work section, the B-Side that we had as well as the full episode, we're here, man.Ade: We outchea.Zach: We're gonna have a good time this season. Make sure you keep checking us out. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to follow us on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through living-corporate.com. Please say the dahs.Ade: The dash.Zach: If you have a question you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, just email us or hit us on DM, right? We out here. Don't forget to give us 5 stars too. Now, look, some of y'all actually been responding and gave us some stars, but not all of y'all though. That's right, I'm looking at you. That's right. We need those 5 stars, okay? Right? Am I tripping, Ade? Do we need the 5 stars or nah?Ade: We need the 5 stars.Zach: We need the 5 stars. Okay, cool. Look, y'all. That does it for us. We'll catch y'all next week. This has been Zach.Ade: And this is Ade. Free 21 Savage.Zach: Free 21 Savage. Peace.Ade: Peace.

My guest today is Web Smith, the founder of 2PM, Inc. a curated, subscription-based media company with quick commentary on brands, data, and eCommerce. He invests in and advises for digitally native vertical brands, and spends most of his time in the intersection of digital media and eCommerce. Within the eCommerce industry, Web’s done many tours of duty: he was the cofounding CMO of Mizzen & Main. Before that, he handled marketing at Rogue. Most recently, he was the Director of eCommerce at Gear Patrol. We begin the episode talking about what Web learned working for Rogue Fitness. We discuss misconceptions around eCommerce. We talk about the purpose of advertising and how brands should think about spreading their messages. Then, we dive into the intersection of content and commerce, and explore brands like Supreme who turn off as many people as they attract. We talk about the future of retail, and explore the developing prospects for Dollar General, Wal-Mart, and J-Crew. Finally, we end with a conversation about Web’s journey from a hungry Houston kid to a multi-time founder. Web’s grit shines through in this conversation. I left the conversation in awe of Web’s humility and ambition. Please enjoy my conversation with Web Smith.   SUBSCRIBE TO MY “MONDAY MUSINGS” NEWSLETTER TO KEEP UP WITH THE PODCAST.     Show Notes LINKS: Find Web online: Twitter 2PM Inc Instagram People mentioned: Jake Thompson Casey Neistat Other mentions: 2PM Inc Mizzen+Main Rogue Gear Patrol Compete Every Day WONE Supreme Primal Kitchen RX Bar Walker and Company Off-White J. Crew SHOW TOPICS 1:12 - How Web began with the e-commerce industry with Rogue, some of the misconceptions he first had with the industry, and a few of his experiences of a blue-collar mentality within e-commerce. 7:20 - Product becoming less of a differentiating factor within e-commerce companies, Web’s thoughts on this, as well as his thoughts on companies doing things in-house versus outsourcing. 11:46 - A few other things that Web looks for within an e-commerce company and some factors that stand out to him. 14:22 - The direct to consumer industrial complex and Web discussing how the real winners of this era are the people that are supporting these brand efforts. Also, a bit on what Web is building within 2 PM and the strategies he’s using. 19:32 - What Web’s original vision for 2 PM was and where the company is currently going. Also, some thoughts on if you’re not doing a paid route, then word of mouth being very important. The most important factor within the Supreme brand discussed, as well. 26:29 - Web’s thoughts on the collaborations that Supreme and Virgil Abloh have done. (Paying $300 for a Supreme branded brick) 29:08 - What Web has learned from CrossFit, his thoughts on it, and a few of his experiences within that community. Also, thoughts on brands relating to being a religion. 36:20 - What is it with the structure of the industries like food, beverage, or cosmetics that makes them not go public. Afterward, discussion on the convergence of media and e-commerce. 49:24 - The rise of dollar stores rising up around the country and Web’s thoughts on this. Also, why the same benefits of these dollar stores (high convenience, close to your home, and low prices) can’t be improved through e-commerce vectors. 54:22 - What stands out about Walmart and what they’re doing within the industry to Web. One of his experiences with Walmart here, as well. 58:46 - Columbus, Ohio being one of the major retail capitals of the world and some thoughts on the things going on within the retail space there. 1:01:41 - What Web has learned from Casey Neistat. His huge amounts of discipline and strict schedules. Where he came from and where he’s going. 1:06:22 - As the cost for testing and launching products go down, more and more companies are coming out with more and different products than what they’re known for. How Casey has also done this. 1:08:31 - The lessons and ambitions Web got from growing up and some discussion on his earlier days and experiences with poverty. How this has translated into him raising his kids. 1:13:13 - Why Web has chosen 2 PM as a way to share his knowledge and to give his gift to the world. Also, what Web deals with within the intersection between e-commerce and media. 1:16:40 - What Web has learned about the craft of writing and how he’s gotten better at it. Why it’s important to always write, especially when you don’t want to do it. 1:19:00 - How Web thinks about talking to people, creating ideas, learning, reading and then making those ideas and that information real and then sharing those with the world. How Web approaches learning through conversation and how he goes about it.   “I don’t think you can be all things for all people. If you’re not pissing someone off, you’re doing something wrong.”   SUBSCRIBE TO MY “MONDAY MUSINGS” NEWSLETTER TO KEEP UP WITH THE PODCAST.

This was a particularly unique episode of Founders15 because Web Smith and I worked together in the early days of building Mizzen+Main. Today, Web is the founder of 2PM, a newsletter for CEO’s, investors, creatives, marketers, and entrepreneurs with all the most relevant information along with an Executive Membership option with in depth commentary, analysis, and robust databases. There are a lot of newsletters today… there are few great ones. 2PM is one of the absolute best. Web shares insights into the unique challenges of “scaling insight” - something that can be tremendously difficult to do - along with his evolving routine of staying sane which includes sleeping “a whole lot more these days” of up to 6.5 hours (hint: that’s still not a lot of sleep!). He is well on his way to building 2PM into what his goal is: to be the “go to source for the entire industry” As a personal subscriber, executive member, and avid reader of the newsletter despite unsubscribing to almost everything else these days, I highly encourage you all to check out 2pml.com and say hello to web on twitter @web, yes that really is his twitter handle!

In his hyper curated newsletter, 2PM, Web Smith covers the latest ecommerce news, trends, and data insights happening in media and retail. It’s been eight months since Web Smith was last on the podcast and a lot has changed with 2PM. He launched a paid executive membership, hired a new editor, and is releasing their first series of original content. With the ecommerce landscape shifting beyond DNVBs, it’s the perfect time to loop back and answer some questions. On this episode, Web predicts how brands will advertise amidst Google’s shrinking reach and Safari’s expected disruption of Facebook tracking (3:57). He shares the digital and physical content strategies brands will use to acquire new customers (7:25), and his own approach to finding a formula for success (8:03). He answers who will be the biggest advertising company by 2025 (10:35) and why platforms that control conversion and commerce will win (14:20). Web talks trends we’re seeing in content and commerce, and how the New York Times is getting it right (18:19). Stephan and Web discuss Patreon (19:55), affiliate marketing strategies that are and aren’t working (24:08), and the tension for creators to operate as a business without losing their perceived status (26:14). Web shares what he’s learned adding a paid subscription model to his free newsletter (30:22), and lastly, why for DNVBs, brand matters (33:37). Links and images from this post are on the Lumi blog.

Swannies is a lifestyle golf apparel and footwear brand. focused on creating golf wear for anywhere at an affordable price, starting with the introduction of world's first soft spike golf sandal.adam iverson is the co-founder of Swannies, which is based in minneapolis, minnesota.learn more about swannies: https://swannies.co/follow upside on Twitter: https://twitter.com/upsidefm//web smith is an investor and consultant based in columbus, ohio and pittsburgh, pennsylvania. he is director of partnerships at Cotton Bureau, which creates custom tees from the world's best graphic designers, and founder of 2PM.2PM is a curated, subscription-based letter with quick commentary on brands, data, and ecommerce.web co-founded Mizzen+Main in 2012. there, he worked extensively to find a founder-product-market fit, voice, and cost-effective approach to establishing mizzen+main's market leading position. he's been featured in the New York Times, Techcrunch, Pando Daily, Wall Street Journal, and Esquire. previously, he's written for Forbes, TechCrunch, and the Wall Street Journal.follow web: https://twitter.com/weblearn more about 2PM: https://2pml.com/

Web Smith's past experiences in retail, tech, and ecommerce have all lead to his current role as Director of Partnerships at Cotton Bureau. This new role fits him like a glove (or a very comfy tee.) Long before Andy Dunn coined the abbreviation DNVB (Digitally Native Vertical Brand), Web was creating thoughtful content and genuine connections to sell stuff online. From Pittsburgh, 3,000 miles from Silicon Valley, Web tracks every new brand and acquisition that pops up in ecommerce. He shares his ecommerce predictions and reflections in his newsletter, 2PM Links. It's a hyper curated digest of all the latest data and news in ecommerce. Web's experience is deep-seeded in the place where tech, retail, and ecommerce overlap. He's worked on every side of retail from his role as the CMO at Mizzen+Main to the Director of Ecommerce at Gear Patrol. With Amazon and Wal Mart swooping up new brands, it seems like the perfect time to talk to him. It's too early to know the long term effects these acquisitions will have on the ecommerce landscape, but if anyone has an informed prediction, it's Web. In this episode, Stephan talks to Web about what to expect from the shifting ecommerce landscape, startup disruption burnout, and how DNVBs can adapt to compete with retail giants. To get links from this episode, go to the Lumi blog

Be All In Web Smith is the Director of eCommerce at Gear Patrol. He runs an awesome eCommerce newsletter called 2 PM Links that I wholeheartedly recommend. If you do anything in eCommerce, marketing, branding Web is the guy for you. Prior to joining Gear Patrol, Web spent time at Uncrate, Rogue Fitness, and was the co-founding CMO at Mizzen + Main. He has a wealth of experience in his professional and personal life that he was gracious enough to share. We get into a little of Web's history and career path. We spend a lot of time talking about personal development and how Web has grown. He shares his best tips from working with thriving brands and balancing family and work. I think you're going to get a ton of value out of this conversation.