Podcasts about pastorally

Welcome to the Pinkleton Pull-Aside Podcast. On this podcast, let's step aside from our busy lives to have fun, fascinating life giving conversation with inspiring authors, pastors, sports personalities and other influencers, leaders and followers. Sit back, grab some coffee, or head down the road and let's get the good and the gold from today's guest. Our host is Jeff Pinkleton, Executive Director of the Gathering of the Miami Valley, where their mission is to connect men to men, and men to God. You can reach Jeff at GatheringMV.org or find him on Facebook at The Gathering of the Miami Valley.Jeff is joined this episode by co-host Greg Nerger.Steve Carter is the bestselling author of The Thing Beneath the Thing, a book about learning to allow God to heal our triggers, insecurities, and past wounds so we can experience spiritual health and wholeness. He hosts Craft and Character, a Preaching Today podcast devoted to empowering pastors and church communicators who want to work on their craft while learning to lead with character. He also believes in the power of collaboration and works hard to ensure all who desire to grow in their craft have access to the tools to do so. He utilizes his unique work experiences to serve as a coach at both personal and executive levels.Pastorally, Steve's passion is to bring the way of Jesus into everything he does. From sanctuaries to board rooms to football fields, he believes every moment is brimming with redemptive potential. A gifted teacher, Steve spends his days crafting sermons, messages, blog posts, and books to encourage people in their walk with Christ. He describes his work as humbling and vulnerable—a soul-baring process that keeps him dependent, expectant, and grounded in Christ.Steve serves as a teaching pastor at Forest City Church and regularly teaches at churches, conferences, and various businesses worldwide. He lives outside Chicago, Illinois, with his wife and two kids.

In Let's Talk About This, Fr. McTeigue discusses the Instrumentum Laboris for the October session of the Synod on Synodality. Is this one as bad as the one from 2023? Father finishes with Weekend Readiness to help you prepare for the upcoming Sunday Mass.   Show Notes New ‘Instrumentum Laboris' Focuses on How to Implement Goals of Synod on Synodality| National Catholic Register  “Instrumentum laboris” for the Second Session of the 16th Ordinary General Assembly of the Synod of Bishops (October 2024) The Synod: A Crash Landing? (Fr. Robert McTeigue, S.J.) 8/25/23 The First (Bitter) Fruits of Synodality (Fr. Robert McTeigue, S.J.) 11/17/23 “We May Not Fully Understand…” Reality Beyond Words: Or, Why It Is Better Not to Understand Everything Immediately — Part 1 | Tradition & Sanity by Dr. Peter Kwasniewski Incomprehension, Wonder, and the Search for Truth: Or, Why It Is Better Not to Understand Everything Immediately — Part 2 | Tradition & Sanity by Dr. Peter Kwasniewski Vindicating Mystery Against Its Rationalist Enemies: Or, Why It Is Better Not to Understand Everything Immediately — Conclusion | Tradition & Sanity by Dr. Peter Kwasniewski Vatican bans Latin Mass in Marian shrine for thriving Spanish walking pilgrimage - LifeSite The problem of religious traditionalists | Joseph Shaw | The Critic Magazine Silk Purses and Sow's Ears: "Inclusive Language" Comes to Mass by Paul V. Mankowski, S.J. Splitting the Faithful: Inclusive Language Is Wrong Biblically, Pastorally, and Doctrinally - Crisis Magazine Goodbye Good Men By Michael S. Rose This Porsche executive was convicted for (take the time to read this slowly) throwing her newborn daughter out of her window to save her career | Not the Bee She Finally Earned Her Stanford Master's Degree at 105: ‘I've waited a long time for this' The Station of the Cross Merchandise - Use Coupon Code 14STATIONS for 10% off | Catholic to the Max 25 Year Anniversary Celebration | The Station of the Cross Catholic Media Network Read Fr. McTeigue's Written Works! Listen to Fr. McTeigue's Preaching! | Herald of the Gospel Sermons Podcast on Spotify Visit Fr. McTeigue's Website | Herald of the Gospel Questions? Comments? Feedback? Ask Father!

It's heartbreaking to see hungry children and hear their cries! Pastorally speaking, it's spirit quenching to hear the cries of Christians who sincerely say they are “not being fed” in weekly worship.  In Matthew's Good News (Gospel), Jesus feeds 5,000 and all were filled and satisfied- and You can be too!  Listen to Fr. Jon, find out more about dining with Jesus, and how to feed on Him.

What are some practical ways to care for your people well? In this episode, we share 6 ways you can do just that. Welcome to episode 305 of Practical Church Planting.  Here are the 6 tips we discuss in this episode: Prayer cards Proactively reaching out to meet when you hear/sense a need Be intentional with your time on Sundays Have a healthy goal of meeting with people Ask good questions is the best counsel Set reminders to follow up ------------------------------- Small Group Training Webinar On Thursday, December 15, at 2 PM Eastern, Dylan will be hosting a highly practical training on running small groups at your church. He'll walk through how to run groups, get more people into groups, how to write group leader guides, and more. Click here to register. CONNECT AND NEVER MISS AN EPISODE Be sure to subscribe to the podcast to get practical tips delivered right to you. For free resources to help you plant a church that thrives, check out practicalplanting.com.  You can also watch the video version of the podcast on our YouTube channel. Have questions or want encouragement from other church planters? Join the Practical Church Planting Facebook group.

Even though the Covid-19 pandemic and its impact have slipped down our news feeds with the cost of living crisis, the appointment of a new UK Prime Minister and the death of the Queen, and the Accession of King Charles to the throne, its effects are still felt by many and the task of pastoral follow up continues.      To reflect on this we are joined by Andrew Dickson (PCI Congregational Life Development Officer); Michael Rutledge (Minster, Abbotts Cross PC), Mark Kernohan (Lifeline Counsellor and member of 1st Ahoghill PC). The podcast also highlights a helpful Bible study resource, Daring to Hope: Experiencing the grace of Lament, produced by Bible Society NI, and an upcoming PCI morning conference Another look at pastoring our congregations with guest speaker Tim Witmer (author of the Shepherd Leader) in Assembly Buildings on Wednesday morning 5 October 2022. 

Ephesians 1:7 — How can the apostle Paul be so exuberant in praise about the grace of God? Why is the grace of God something the apostle constantly writes about? It is because he knew the grace of God; he experienced it and it led to his worship and praise. In this sermon on Ephesians 1:7 titled “The Riches of His Grace,” Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones expounds Paul's words on the riches of God's grace. By better understanding God's grace one gets a glimpse into the very character of God. In the riches of God's grace they see that He gives fully, freely, and abundantly. It can be no other way. He must give grace liberally because of who He is. Pastorally, Dr. Lloyd-Jones applies God's grace to the Christian by highlighting their desperate need for it. Thankfully, His grace is sufficient for all needs. Millions have drunk from it, yet it is still bubbling up, offering assurance for all who come and drink from it. The gracious and good news of the gospel is the free and full forgiveness for those who are in Christ Jesus according to the riches of God's grace.

Pastorally, the Apostle John reminds believers to love one another. This brotherly love stems from our new relationship to God, having been born from above by God's grace. Grounded in this quintessential love of God displayed in the incarnation, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Christians are to love in this way as well. The end of this section concludes with great assurances of God's love for His children.

Pastorally, the Apostle John reminds believers to love one another. This brotherly love stems from our new relationship to God, having been born from above by God's grace. Grounded in this quintessential love of God displayed in the incarnation, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Christians are to love in this way as well. The end of this section concludes with great assurances of God's love for His children.

We live in a culture that has a big desire for impact. Oftentimes, the affection of our hearts to be recognized is competing with the call to love God and love people. There is temptation to turn any leadership position into a place of notoriety, which places the focus on ourselves rather than Jesus. So ultimately, what does it look like for us to lead in humility? Come alongside Rob as he walks us through this final value in our series.

Tune into the sermon from the Rev. Jarrett Kerbel for the Seventh Sunday After the Epiphany, February 20, 2022. Support St. Martin's mission and ministry by giving online: stmartinec.org/give Today's readings are: Genesis 45:3-11, 15 1 Corinthians 15:35-38,42-50 Luke 6:27-38 Psalm 37:1-12, 41-42Readings may be found on LectionaryPage.net: https://lectionarypage.net/ Permission to podcast/stream music in this service obtained from One License with license #A-701187 and CCLI with license #21234241 and #21234234. All rights reserved. Don't Be a Stump The Rev. Jarrett Kerbel February 20, 2022 Please join me in the spirit of prayer. I grew up in a home where there were mixed messages about love. I might not be alone in that. My mother taught me at least two versions of love. One: love turns you into a stump. The second one she also taught me was: love causes you to take a stand. Now, the stump lesson came through a children's book she used to like to read to us all: The Giving Tree. Now, in that story there is a boy and there is a tree and the tree is a she. The she-ness is important here, because as the story goes the little boy loved the tree and the tree loved the little boy and they delighted in each other and played and frolicked and slowly the boy took things from the tree, and she gave them out of her delight. He wanted the apples, he got the apples. He wanted the leaves, he got the leaves. He wanted the branches, he got the branches. He wanted her trunk, he got her trunk. Until she was a stump. Love evidently means giving your whole life away until you're a stump. My mom stopped reading us that story as her feminism grew, and as she made progress in Al-Anon. My sisters and I like to joke that she was of the fundamentalist branch of Al-Anon. Boy, could she detach with love. It's a problematic story. I'm not the only one to say this. This notion that love is so sacrificial that you make yourself disappear. She taught me the "take a stand" lesson about love at church. During the late 70's, during liturgical reform and prayer book reform, my mom was the first person at Christ Church in Brunswick, New Jersey to stand up after the Sanctus. Remember, back in the day after the Sanctus was sung, everybody hit their knees. My mom called this "mowing them down." And there I was as a small child in our colonial box pew and there was mom standing. The only one. And I wanted to hide in a weird mix of embarrassment and pride. Then Communion came. We gathered around the altar rail and she was still standing. The only one to stand to receive Communion. It caught on eventually. But what she was teaching me with courage and grace and a deep faith was that our human dignity has been restored and recognized by God so that in God's presence we can stand in our dignity. We don't need to kneel. God has restored us and recognized us as God's image here on earth, and so she stood with dignity and I learned that to love is to stand up. Now, if you are one of the people who has been sticking with Jesus's sermon on the plain in Luke, are you still listening? That's how our passage begins today. "Are you still listening?" This is challenging stuff, these beatitudes and woes and challenging instructions for those of us who might be disciples, and you might wonder with this lesson about loving enemies and praying for those who abuse you, whether Jesus is calling us to be a stump for the sake of love or to take a stand for the sake of love. For me, it is the second and by now, you know me, I will explain why. For fidelity to the text and pastoral reasons, I believe we are called by Jesus to stand as we love our enemies. Remember that Jesus is preaching to his disciples. He has done the Beatitudes and the Woes. He has told us very clearly that if we follow him we can expect to be reviled and he said also, "Woe to those who are admired." Right before the current passage, Jesus says, "Woe to you when all speak well of you. For so our ancestors did to the false prophets." Jesus is telling us that if we choose to be disciples we are called to be truth-telling prophets, and as truth-telling prophets we should expect to have mixed reviews, if not full out enemies. So this teaching about enemies, this teaching about loving your enemies, comes from the fact that we're gonna have some, and then what do you do? And Jesus is really clear. He said twice in this passage, "Love your enemies." Now, if you thought the Trinity was hard, or the Incarnation or the Resurrection, I think "Love your enemies" is right up there on the Christian Challenges. And Jesus knew we would struggle. He knew his people would struggle, so he teaches them a new thing. You might know the German philosopher Hannah Arendt for her Banality of Evil: Trial of Eichmann. She also has a book called The Roots of Totalitarianism where she points out that it's very easy to form community when you identify an enemy. If you have an enemy to react against you can create internal cohesion and identity against that enemy. And she is of course talking about Germany in the 30's and 40s. Jesus is not going to give disciples that option. They cannot be a community that gains its identity by having enemies. They will have enemies, but they cannot get a cheap internal sense of fellowship by having those enemies, because they must love those enemies. Now we might think, well we are Episcopalians, we don't do that. We like to say other people do that. But we do that all the time! Every time one of our members says, "Oh those Evangelicals! Oh those Fundamentalists!" we're doing it. We're defining ourselves against somebody else. Jesus doesn't let us do that. We are to love our enemies which simply means that our identity is in that love not in its opposition. Our identity is in the love not in the opposition and because of our life in God we have through Christ, we have the spiritual freedom granted to us to exchange good for ill, to regard the good of the other, which is to love them. Jesus then gives some amazingly striking (literally) examples. And these are tough love examples and they come from knowing our human dignity is from God, restored and recognized and delighted in by God. How do we love the enemy? He gives some examples: the slap example, the strip example. In Matthew the extra mile example, and back in Luke the lending example. And what I want to say, coming out of wonderful theology done by Walker Wink in the context of South Africa during Apartheid, there is a very different reading of these examples. These examples have too often been used to rationalize abuse, to justify oppression, to create a passivity among Christians in this face of the intolerable. Wink found in South Africa a different reading. So for example, the slap - in the ancient world, a backhanded slap is a slap of disrespect. A superior slaps an inferior this way. To turn your cheek is an act of resistance. Forcing that person to slap you the other way, like an equal. This is resistance from knowing your dignity and insisting on their dignity. You are regarding their good by holding them accountable in asking them to recognize what's real and true. You are equals. Stripping - same thing. In the ancient world, it was legal to take your cloak. That was a legal way to get a debt repaid. And this whole little bit hinges on how many pieces of clothing people had in the ancient world. Any guesses? A cloak and a shirt and what else? Nope, two. You had two pieces of clothing so if you took the cloak and then took the shirt, you were naked. This nakedness was another form of resistance. If you are gonna treat me as less than human, I'm gonna call you on it by embarrassing you in this public space by getting naked and showing your exploitation. Once again, resistance. Non-violent resistance claiming integrity, claiming dignity on an equal basis. Same with the extra mile in matthew. A roman soldier could impress you in his service for one mile. Well, if you take on two that's you asserting your agency. That's you asserting your identity based in the generosity of god. That's you asserting your dignity which your oppressor wants nothing to do with. And on and on and on. You see where I'm going. If you read these examples the wrong way, we teach submission to oppression. If we teach them the way I think Jesus was teaching them, we learn transformational resistance. Transformational resistance that recognizes the necessity of dignity in all parties. Jesus is promoting the agency and spiritual freedom of his followers. Your identity is not as a victim. Your identity is not conferred on you by the would-be enemy. Your identity and agencies come from you from your life in Christ and your life in the Christian community. Remember you are a child of God. That little bit in this passage gets missed, doesn't it. "Remember you are a child of God." All things stem from that identity. So why is this so crucial? Why am I so wound up about this? Well, I am the son of a fundamentalist Al-Anon member, and it rubbed off on me, I know. I was raised on feminism all the way and I'm proud of that. I'm passionate about this because these stories are used to teach an unhealthy form of love. A sick form of love that gives away way too much and asks us to deface our dignity, destroy our health, ruin our self-regard to adapt to a dominating power however that comes. Pastorally, I've seen too much of this and I will not be a false prophet about it. I will be a truth-telling prophet about it. In my ministries with women in so many cases, I see women who have been taught to sacrifice everything just like that Giving Tree, to disregard themselves to the point of self-destruction. Giving up their safety, giving up their physical health, giving up the regard that is their right for the sake of abusers, narcissists, hateful, neglectful people, cautioned too often by pastors who say "Oh just put up with it. Love your enemy. " At the 8 o'clock service one person reminded me about his grandmother who was married to an abusive alcoholic and she went to her priest here in Philadelphia and the priest said, "oh just go home and be meek and mild." Because that's how Christians are, aren't we? Well, he said the good news is she divorced him, and she still went to Communion. She took a stand for love. I am passionate, I admit. I say no to that teaching that turns people into doormats for the sake of Christ. I say yes to standing up in love for the dignity God has so restored in us, because love, real love, is between people who respect and recognize the full dignity of the people engaging in that love. Love recognizes and respects the dignity of all involved. Love elevates the disregarded and it brings down the overly regarded, the haughty. There is no place for domination in love. Love resists mistreatment. It resists mistreatment so to reestablish and repair right relationship in the joy of God-given love which includes all parties in God's dignity. "Love your enemies" is not a request for warm, sentimental, gushy feelings towards our oppressors, tormentors and violators. Love is simply the desire for the good for each person who would be our enemy. For our own safety, and sanity and well-being we can love in a detached way. We can love from a distance. We can wish a person well in an openhearted way while keeping our limited boundaries in tact. This is the way of dignity and integrity. We can release a person from our life in love, handing them over to God for God's care where we no longer can do it. In short, I guess I sum up my sermon as I sum up advice to many people I work with pastorally: Don't be a stump. Stand up for love - God's love. The love that God gave everything for to restore our dignity. God gave everything in God's commitment to restore God's good creation in us and renew us in our risen image of Christ. So, my friends, let us be faithful to what God has done for us without trying to repeat God's work, letting God be God and letting ourselves be the humans that God made us to be in our dignity, our limits and our grace. Amen. Video, photographs, and graphics by the Church of St. Martin-in-the-Fields. Episcopal Church of St. Martin-in-the-Fields, 8000 St. Martin's Lane, Philadelphia, PA 19118. 215.247.7466. https://www.stmartinec.org

Revelation 1:8-20

Pastor Gary Hewins' sermon entitled -Pushing Back the Darkness, Pastorally-Instructively- on March 21st, 2021

One year into a global pandemic that has taken hundreds of thousands of lives and disrupted the routines and relationships of millions more, we would all do well to take a moment to take stock of where we are—mentally, physically, spiritually. Tracy G is here to help you do just that. A self-described “wellness artist” and host of the podcast “She’s Beauty & The Beast,” Tracy is overflowing with wisdom and advice for staying not just sane but grateful when it seems like so much is beyond our control. We ask Tracy about adapting to pandemic life, how to keep “self-care” from becoming self-indulgent and how plants can serve as a really useful metaphor for friendships (really). In Signs of the Times, several U.S. bishops have released statements that could lead to confusion among Catholics about whether it is morally permissible to take the Johnson & Johnson Covid-19 vaccine. Zac and Ashley discuss: Can too much nuance get in the way of effective communication? Plus, Pope Francis is making a historic visit to Iraq, March 5 to March 8. We share a clip from Inside the Vatican’s deep dive into the trip which answers the question: Why is the pope so set on going to warzone amid a global pandemic?  This episode of Jesuitical is brought to you by The Great Courses Plus. Sign up for The Great Courses Plus and get an entire month of unlimited access to thousands of video and audio courses from the world’s best professors by visiting http://thegreatcoursesplus.com/jesuitical. As always, thanks for listening. You can support the media ministry of America and unlock unlimited access to all our articles with a digital subscription for less than $1 per week. Subscribe here. And to get all that plus bonus content from Jesuitical, become a member of our Patreon community. Links from the show: ‘Pastorally dangerous’: U.S. bishops risk causing confusion about vaccines, ethicists say Inside the Vatican: Nobody at the Vatican wants Pope Francis to go to Iraq right now. Why is he so set on going? Pope Francis in Iraq: Everything you need to know about the historic trip We remember them: Covid-19 prayer service from America Media Tracy G Official Website Tracy G’s Audio Vision Board: Forced to Flow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As a Pastor dealing with death can be tricky especially just starting out. A couple of seasoned veterans give some insight as to how they dealt with it.

Jonathan chats with New Testament scholar and pastor Tom Schreiner about pandemics in the Bible, God's sovereignty, and how we ought to trust him even during difficult circumstances.

Jonathan chats with New Testament scholar and pastor Tom Schreiner about pandemics in the Bible, God's sovereignty, and how we ought to trust him even during difficult circumstances.

In this episode, Pastor Dave talks directly and bluntly about what might happen in a worst case scenario with COVID-19 in our country and are we as Pastors Theologically and Pastorally ready?

In this episode of the Church Planting Podcast, Clint Clifton sits down with Thabiti Anybwile to discuss his testimony and hear what he has to say about his church planting journey. Thabiti Anyabwile (MS, North Carolina State University) is a pastor at Anacostia River Church in southeast Washington, DC, and a Council member of The Gospel Coalition. He’s the author of several books, including What Is a Healthy Church Member?, Finding Faithful Elders and Deacons, Reviving the Black Church, and others. He and his wife, Kristie, have three children.CREW MEDIA CPP – THABITIALBERT: This is the Church Planting Podcast. Thank you for tuning inALBERT: Every week we sit down with leaders who are shaping church planting efforts.ALBERT: Here’s your host Josh Turansky and Clint CliftonJOSH TURANSKY: Hey welcome to the church planting podcast my name is Josh Turansky. And that clicking noise you here is Clint Clifton…CLINT CLIFTON: Hey Josh.JOSH TURANSKY: …were recording this uh remotely. And uh Clint uh where are you recording from? What’s your space look like? CLINT CLIFTON: Well I’m in DC right now. I’m in my, in my office. Uhm good awesomeJOSH TURANSKY: I’m in my office which is the basement of a real houseCLINT CLIFTON: YeahJOSH TURANSKY: All the pipes and the wires lead uh, in here it’s very exciting.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. Everything looked cool in BaltimoreJOSH TURANSKY: It does. And this and this sound, this recording will be great as long as no one flushes the toiletCLINT CLIFTON: Oh yeah. Well it’s kinda cool like a uhm a graveyard or something. You know its like a little bit scary…JOSH TURANSKY: Yeah. CLINT CLIFTON: …but coolJOSH TURANSKY: Yeah. I love it.CLINT CLIFTON: You know I was in New York city all week. I uh stayed uhm down just right there by the Empire State building a for a meeting and boy that’s a scary city. Holy smokesJOSH and CLIFF: JOSH TURANSKY: Yeah. Oh it that there’s nothing like New York city it’s it’s cool.CLINT CLIFTON: I’m so glad I don’t live there. Cause I was pretty excited going I’ve been I’ve been there quite a few times but I was excited that I had a little down time with this meeting kinda walk around and boy I mean it’s yeah it’s a it’s a its’a not place I probably not like to live.JOSH TURANSKY: Yeah… CLINT CLIFTON: But I’m thankful that couple-minded people go move there but…JOSH TURANSKY: AmenJOSH TURANSKY: Yeah. It’s always amazes me that people will plant a church in such a dense area but then I think people probably think well I was nuts for planting in Baltimore so…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.JOSH TURANSKY: God give you grace to go to the place you’re called to yeah so.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah, He does.JOSH TURANSKY: This episode we’re gonna talk with Thabiti eh, Thabiti AnyabwileCLINT CLIFTON: JOSH TURANSKY: Did I did I pronounce that right?CLINT CLIFTON: That was like no not at allCLINT CLIFTON: It’s Thabiti uh commonlyJOSH TURANSKY: ThabitiCLINT CLIFTON: Commonly uhm you know messed up and uhm we talked about this just a little bit in the interview but, uhm ah Thabiti was born as Ron Burns which is so interesting people always asking where’s he from? And he answers North Carolina like he’s a uhm ethnically speaking standard uhm African-American born in North Carolina uh… JOSH TURANSKY: YeahCLINT CLIFTON: …with the name Ron Burns. And uhm, so his he’ll share some of his testament as to how he came to faith and or not didn’t came to faith excuse me. Converted to Islam and changes his name uhm…JOSH TURANSKY: Ah that’s rightCLINT CLIFTON: when he converted to Islam. And uhm so yeah. Fascinating man and like one of the most fascinating guys I’ve ever hung out with. Brilliant and that’s about itJOSH TURANSKY: He came on my radar. Sorry. He came on my radar when uhm, the black lives matter thing was going on and really hadn’t reached to uh a loud point. I think that was in 2015 and 2016. And he wrote uhm from his perspective as he was coming back from DC…CLINT CLIFTON: YeahJOSH TURANSKY: …and his concern about racial issues.CLINT CLIFTON: YeahJOSH TURANSKY: I think he wrote that on uh the Gospel Coalition website.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. Yeah he regularly writes on Gospel Coaltion. His probably one of the clearest voices in African-American Evangelical from an African-American Evangelical poppette perspective. He has a ministry called the front porch. Uh that’s ah you know writes and uh communicates uhm on social issues whole wide range of things and he’s he’s both brilliantly sort of kind of been pastoral and uhm sharp in his rebuke. You know in a way… JOSH TURANSKY: mhCLINT CLIFTON: …yeah its just a few people can pull off being that sharply uhm like you know exact with their rebukes. Ah but also, full of pastoral wisdom and kindness and gentleness. He’s very gentle man and uhm and his in a neighborhood in Washington that’s you know uhm no known you know for murder crimes and he went right into the thick of it and…JOSH TURANSKY: mhCLINT CLIFTON: …his really planted a fantastic church there called Anacostia River ChurchJOSH TURANSKY: Yeah wow powerful. So this is your interview that your did with him. You sat down with him had this discussion uhm let’s jump right into that right nowHave you ever had that experience of hearing a great idea? I mean a truly great idea and thinking “Oh! Why couldn’t that have been my idea?” Well I had that experience recently when I ran across a company called SpaceTogether. Now SpaceTogether was founded by a church planter and SpaceTogether is to the church world what AirBNB is to your family. It let’s you rent out your church spaces easily as AirBNB lets you rent out your home. You can rent out a part of the building for like a specific day and time or you can rent out the building in an ongoing way in a time where your facilities is under-utilized. And SpaceTogether has this great technology that helps you take under-utilized church space and create new opportunities for your congregation. Now exclusively for church planting podcast listeners SpaceTogether is offering a $1.00 posting fee. You can post your space on SpaceTogether for just $1.00 when you use the coupon code planter. And if you’re a church planter that needs space go on SpaceTogether and look at the places they’re offering and maybe you’ll find the perfect spot for your new church. You can learn more about SpaceTogether at the website spacetogether.comCLINT CLIFTON: Alright Pastor T thank you for joining me today. THABITI ANYBWILE: It’s good to be with you man. Thank you for having meCLINT CLIFTON: Yes so I wanna talk about your church planting journey at Anacostia River Church in Washington. But before we do that you have such an interesting back story do you mind uh sharing a little bit about where you came from? How you came to faith in Jesus?THABITI ANYBWILE: Mhm. Grew up in the barbecue capital of the world – Lexington, North Carolina. More pork barbecue than any place in the planetCLINT CLIFTON: Is that vinegar-based?THABITI ANYBWILE: Oh no. That’s Eastern North Carolina I’m from Lexington North Carolina …CLINT CLIFTON: Oh right. Okay. Oh okay so its tomato-based. Oh manTHABITI ANYBWILE: So we got Lexington in Dallas right. So It’s the good stuff. Uhm this is a civil war between me and my wife. She’s from Eastern North Carolina so uhm. But I grew up there small town, North Carolina, bible belt. Youngest of 8 children. Uhm, All I really knew and in uh about the faith was uhm when my older brothers was getting into trouble…CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: …they went to church.CLINT CLIFTON: OkayTHABITI ANYBWILE: Trying to get themselves together. CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: So church was a little bit more like rehab. CLINT CLIFTON: No.THABITI ANYBWILE: So uhm and and I saw that cycle of my older brothers in and out kinda of trouble and some moral reform and things of that sort.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm I got in trouble for the first time in my life really uhm as a rising junior in high school.CLINT CLIFTON: OkayTHABITI ANYBWILE: And uh had been like an ace student in a small-town athlete all that kind of stuff. And I thought “Oh man I’m in trouble. I don’t like this feeling. I’ve broken my mom’s heart. What should I do?” and a thought came to me ‘I should go to church.’CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: Go to this little church and I think the Gospel is pretty much assumed?CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: and not made clear? And uh I attend that church for 3-4 months and I thought “Okay. I need to make this stick.” So I joined the church responded to an alter call still not understanding the Gospel. Uhm become a member of that little church in some ways being socialized into the church. Bur wasn’t Born Again.CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: And the outcome of that was uh a year or so later. Uhm I stopped attending. Went back to my sin. Uh went off to college angry young manCLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm there I met some Muslim men who introduced me to Islam. CLINT CLIFTON: Well.THABITI ANYBWILE: And converted to Islam. Practicing Muslim for about 4-5 years. CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: Before hearing the Gospel preached at a local church here in the DC area. My wife and I had miscarried our first child. A few months before Uhm Islam itself has started to crumble… CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: …Uhm theologically for me. CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: So I had had to sort of moved to a period bouncing between Agnosticism and Atheism. CLINT CLIFTON: OkayTHABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm and were sitting in this little church and this pastor preaches uh an exposition Exodus 32CLINT CLIFTON: OkayTHABITI ANYBWILE: And it was a long Gospel. Uhm you know as he preached on idolatry from that golden passage. CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: Uh I had come to realize. Islam was idolatry and I was convicted…CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: …And he preached Christ from that passage and for the first time the Gospel clicked…CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: …made sense. By the spirits working my heart.CLINT CLIFTON: And why were you in DC?THABITI ANYBWILE: Came to visit my sister-in-law. CLINT CLIFTON: Oh you were just visiting.THABITI ANYBWILE: Uh we were. It was interesting After the miscarriage I was sitting in that home a lot of days when I should have been at work just really depressed. Because that had been the sort of the birth of that child had a become our hope…CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: And uhm, and so we lost that baby and so we were then hopeless. And then we were away. Then this preacher comes on television. He had a regular show on B&T. And uh he’s just preaching and it’s like someone had rewritten the bible. So the Lord started drawing me by His word. And so we discovered that Temple Hills… CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: …was just outside of DC southeast DC where were are now. And my sister-in-law lived here. So we decided to come and visit my sister-in-law and then go to that church in Sunday. And uh the Lord ah met us in that church. My wife and I both were converted that Sunday. CLINT CLIFTON: And was that Eric Cragnon at that time? Who was it at the time?THABITI ANYBWILE: No no no it’s a guy names John Cherry. CLINT CLIFTON: John CherryTHABITI ANYBWILE: No no no it’s a guy names John Cherry. He’s gonna be with the Lord now. His son is is pastoring the church currently. So yeah we were converted under Pastor Cherry’s uh preaching. And uh began to grow under his his teaching and preaching.CLINT CLIFTON: WowTHABITI ANYBWILE: VIa these things that the kids won’t remember the call cassette tapes. CLINT CLIFTON: cassette tapes.THABITI ANYBWILE: All that all that good stuff but that’s…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: …but that’s how the Lord saved usCLINT CLIFTON: Were you brushed over the uh the uh time of Islam in your life. That was a prolonged period of time. How long… THABITI ANYBWILE: Spent 4-5 years. CLINT CLIFTON: 4-5 years and…THABITI ANYBWILE: Yeah.CLINT CLIFTON: …and the and you took your Islamic faith seriously.THABITI ANYBWILE: Yeah. Absolutely. So I was a bit of campus Saul.CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: Because I had this experience in this little church that left me thinking Christianity was falseCLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm and so, I would describe myself as an enemy to the cause really. CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm zealous for Islam I lead uh at the time were a number of uhm college peers into Islam… CLINT CLIFTON: Oh.THABITI ANYBWILE: …was was zealous for the religion.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. So much so that you’ve changed your nameTHABITI ANYBWILE: Yeah…CLINT CLIFTON: ExactlyTHABITI ANYBWILE: Well that’s pretty typical to Muslim converts. CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm and I didn’t choose an Arabic attribute. Normally you would choose an Arabic attribute…CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: But at the same time this was also the hayday of AfrocentrismCLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm so like my Lefie Ashanti, 91 barr Names most of your listeners would not know.CLINT CLIFTON: Right.THABITI ANYBWILE: Who were in the late 80s and 90s at the forefront of Afrocentrism. And so the other thing that’s happening for me is I’m discovering sort of my own ethnic and racial…CLINT CLIFTON: Right.THABITI ANYBWILE: …heritage. And so I chose the chose an African names.CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: Thabiti is borrowed from the Arabic but is a Swahili name it means loosely translated a True man…CLINT CLIFTON: AhTHABITI ANYBWILE: An upright man. And Anyabwile means God has set me free. YeahCLINT CLIFTON: And so the the logistics going through your name change like that you were in CollegeTHABITI ANYBWILE: Mhm.CLINT CLIFTON: And so you talked to your family about that. You did that legally.THABITI ANYBWILE: I did.CLINT AND THABITI: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: It’s it’s scary how easily it is legally. At the time you go down to the courthouse file uh name change certificate…CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: posted on the courthouse not its been going for 5 days. Come back get it stamped and now you’ve legally got a new name. CLINT CLIFTON: Wow.THABITI ANYBWILE: So I I think they should make it tougher than that CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: But at the time that that process was simple. It was interesting the whole period of Islam with my family. As I said I would’ve regarded as my family as as nominally Christian.CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm in my little town in North Carolina nobody never met a Muslim. You know and when I came home and talking about Islam. Uhm there was lots of kind of concerned curiosity.CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: My mom when she’d grow concerned like that she just kinda listens. I would I would learn years later that she just prayed for me…CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: …spent years praying for me. Ah my siblings as I said I was the youngest of 8 kids. Their love language public ridiculeCLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: So uhm my siblings were like “Oh you’re not gonna eat this pork-chop sandwich?” CLINT CLIFTON: Oh. YesTHABITI ANYBWILE: You know and so and so uh there were lots of ribbing got lower questions “Why do you this? What does this mean?”CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: that kind of thing. You know?CLINT CLIFTON: Do you think they saw it as phase? As a phase?THABITI ANYBWILE: Uh probably. My siblings probably thought of it more as a phase. But my mom I think mom took it seriously. CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: As I said my mom uh prayed uh faithfully for me. CLINT CLIFTON: Okay that’s interesting. I know there’s a lot to talk about in that category but uhm a few years ago you were pastoring a church in Grand Cayman Island…THABITI ANYBWILE: MhCLINT CLIFTON: …so tell us about that ministry. And why you decided to transition from that into church planting?THABITI ANYBWILE: Yeah went there 2006 with no return ticket. I mean you get called to serve in the Carribean you don’t plan to come back so... Uh lovely church there yeah Saint Seth the uh first Baptist church of Grand Cayman. And at the time was a membership of uh I don’t know 300 to 350 people. Uhm from probably 35 Nationalities. Very diverse church. Uh International church. Uhm loved the gospel, loved each other, loved the country. And so it was a sweet 8 years serving with the men there on the eldership. Serving with the saints there at the church. And as I said we didn’t, my wife and I didn’t go with the idea that this we’re gonna be here for couple years and come back…CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: …We went to live the rest of our lives there. My son was born there. So he would regard himself as a CaymanianCLINT CLIFTON: MhTHABITI ANYBWILE: In his in his heart. Uhm, but probably about we were there for 8 years probably ‘bout year 5 or 6.CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: Through a set of interest things I found myself involved in uh I realized that some of what I thought was happening in a way of church planting and training guys for uh the ministry. In predominanty African-American context, wasn’t happening widely as I I had thought. CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: There was a lot more work adjacent to those contexts. But not a lot of work in those contexts. At least from my sort of theological kind of tribe.CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm and so that began a season of praying and fasting for me and my wife. And I committed to my elders there that ever I had a serious thought about doing something other than pastoring that church…CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: … they’d be the first to know. So my wife and I had a relationship retreat at the end of which she asked me the money question She said, “If you’ve never pastored in a predominantly African-American context were you could do some of the things the Lord had called you to do… CLINT CLIFTON: Mh.THABITI ANYBWILE: …training guys and planting other churches and so on but you are faithful for the rest for your ministry. And you never did that, would you, would you regret it?CLINT CLIFTON: Mh.THABITI ANYBWILE: And it’s about 2 o’clock in the morning on a Saturday morning and I was half-sleeping when she asked the question. And I sat up straight in the bed wide awake and thought “Yeah. I would regret that.”CLINT CLIFTON: Wow.THABITI ANYBWILE: So that Monday I began contacting my elders and said, “I just had a serious thought.” CLINT CLIFTON: Mh.THABITI ANYBWILE: About maybe doing something different. And we spent about a year together. Uhm praying, thinking through the ministry there…CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: …Thinking through what it would mean to come plant some place else…CLINT CLIFTON: Mh.THABITI ANYBWILE: thinking about the neighborhood the Lord began to draw us to… CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: And so they were really the counsel of men who helped me discern the sense of calling…CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: …And that and at the end of that year, uhm they affirmed that sense of calling.CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm they were kind enough to say basically. “We would rather you stay here.”CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: “But we don’t detect any sin in your motives…”CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: “And we see the need that you see…”CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: “And we’ll be supportive if that what the Lord calls you to do.” And so yeah that’s how we wound up making the decision to come back States side. CLINT CLIFTON: And you came back to your community you’re from Washington. Uhm, tell our listeners that doesn’t know Anacostia about Anacostia.THABITI ANYBWILE: Yeah. It’s the part of Washington that they’ve never visitedCLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm Washington really is a tale of two cities.CLINT CLIFTON: Mh.THABITI ANYBWILE: A river runs through it. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: Used all the clichés in the book title, right?CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: The Anacostia River sort of divides what most people think of as Washington when you think of monuments and Capitol Hill and the white house…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: From the eastern and south-eastern part of the city. CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: which is entirely residential. Yeah it’s a food dessert…CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm has no significant business industry to speak of. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: Is 92%? 94% African-American… CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: …would trail the rest of the city if the median income of the city is $92,000.00? I think it’s like $92,000.00 household income it’s like $92,000.00 median income in this part of the city. Minimum income in this city is $32,000.00. So this is the uh poor uhm section of the city…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: …with all the problem that come with that. With density and poverty come crime, struggling schools all those kinds of things. Uhm so this is the neglected part of Washington DC. You know?CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. And uhm what was it I know you said you wanted be in a primarily African-American community, but what was it about Anacostia specifically that made you come here? THABITI ANYBWILE: Yeah. Well its interesting. Southeast DC, Anacostia in particular, was going back to the 80s.,,CLINT CLIFTON: Mh.THABITI ANYBWILE: …when my sister-in-law lived in here, that was our introduction to DC…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. THABITI ANYBWILE: We knew nothing about the monuments…CLINT CLIFTON: Right. THABITI ANYBWILE: and anything of that sort. My sister-in-law lived in uh if you’re from DC you would notice a place lived in uh high-rise building called Mulberry Plaza on Good Hope road. Uhm and so we used to go visit her and get off the highway. Start immediately dodging the crater-sized potholes and make our way to Mulberry Plaza. This is back in the days where you need an invitation to come to the Southeast. It’s the height of the crack epidemic, the violence was out of control. Uhm, but their beautiful people who live here like my sister-in-law, right? And so we used to spend our time here in Southeast. This was back again late 80s and 90s. So when we fast forward 20 some years. When we started thinking about planting and asking the question where, people were making lots of suggestions. You know?CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. THABITI ANYBWILE: ‘Why don’t you go to Charlotte? Or this place? Philadelphia da da da?’ And none of them seem to stick subjectively. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. THABITI ANYBWILE: And ironically, we had uh a couple come here from the Cayman Island. I had performed their weddings some years before. He’s from England. And he comes, and with his little soft British accent said “Have you thought about Anacostia?” And I’m thinking to myself “What do you know about Anacostia?” right?CLINT CLIFTON: Right.THABITI ANYBWILE: But flares go off. And that might be it. And it’s interesting as time went on that though just began dominating my heart…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. THABITI ANYBWILE: with sense of Anacostia. This is where Fredrick Douglas made his home. CLINT CLIFTON: Yep. THABITI ANYBWILE: With rich history. Uhm this is in some ways, I would argue are the cultural capital of African-American DC.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. THABITI ANYBWILE: From Go-go music to mumbo sauce and all the things that Washingtonians love…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. THABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm, for all of its difficulties there’s just a lot of culture here…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. THABITI ANYBWILE: There’s a lot of richness here. There’s a lot of historical heritage here. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: And wonderful people here. And so our heart just began to be drawn inexorably towards Anacostia. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. But for a church planter. And the experience I have with church planters you are way over the age than what’s expected. I mean you have…THABITI ANYBWILE: that’s a very polite way of calling me old I appreciate that. CLINT CLIFTON: …and uh kids and their teens. And uhm you look living uh living a presumably comfortable life in uh in Cayman that transition couldn’t have been easy.THABITI ANYBWILE: Well, God’s just been gracious with us. Uhm, it’s been hardest for my son who was born in the Cayman Islands. Who only knew is flip-flops and shorts and snorkeling and beaches. I mean that was uh, that was his life and he loved it. His a bougie kind of kid. CLINT CLIFTON: THABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm He knew nothing about States, and life here. And certainly nothing of an inner city and the problems here. So, he’s the one who’s had the hardest transition…CLINT CLIFTON: Right.THABITI ANYBWILE: back in the States. The girls have lived here before in DC…CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm. THABITI ANYBWILE: Capitol Hill. We were in a different church and so on. So they had uh, we left when they were 6 and 8. Came back and they’re like uhm, 14 15.CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm. THABITI ANYBWILE: But they had some categories.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm, so they adjusted a bit better. Uhm, but God’s been gracious to us. So the sense of of things being hard, uhm have been met with God’s kindness. And we haven’t felt as as I’m sure many other folks would sometimes feel and that sort. So we hadn’t felt sort of uhm, the hardest things. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: I mean you’ve showed up uhm on a morning to do this conversation. My staff literally two blocks from the office… CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: …just witnessed a shooting and a man bleeding in the street. Alright, so hard stuff has been happening all the time all around us. But God has comforted us. And been kind to us. And that sense of being in the middle of His calling?CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: Has just given us great liberty and great security even in the midst of a lot of hard things. CLINT CLIFTON: I guess if there’s a person listening would you address them to call to plant and they’d be wrestling with a call to plant in a place that’s hard for them to imagine them and their family being happy. And what would you have to say to them?THABITI ANYBWILE: Yeah man, Clint Imma tell you what, part of what scared me in the Cayman Islands.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: Uh in that process of discerning whether or not to stay or not?CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: It became really clear to me that I could stay and be really comfortable…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: …and that there’d be no challenges there. And nobody prodding me along spiritually to grow. Uhm, and that seemed to be a slow pleasant path…CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: …to a potential kind of spiritual deathCLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm so I was quickened by the idea that I shouldn’t need to be where my own soul sank.CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: In a place that made me live in a more lean way…CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: uhm that broke the tentacles of the world…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: …off of my affections and desires. That if I wanted to live in comfort, I was living for the long thing…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: …and If I were living at the expense of Gospel proclamation in communities that needed the Gospel…CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: …uhm, then I was doing a sinfully selfish thingCLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm and so, the Lord just dealt with me and my heart in those ways… CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm. YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: …and uhm and and so the idea coming as an older guy to plant a church in a tough neighborhood when I could’ve chosen uhm a softer path if you will. That that didn’t feel like any sacrifice to me because I needed it for my own soul…CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: …And I was convinced because of the reality of Hell and judgment…CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: …that it needed to be done. You know? In in all kinds of communities. But in in this community that we felt called to especially. CLINT CLIFTON: Did it take convincing with your wife and children?THABITI ANYBWILE: No that that my son was the slowest to get he was like “Why are we doing this?” Yeah. CLINT CLIFTON: How old was he?THABITI ANYBWILE: He was 6 at the timeCLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: You know? So he’s now the classic third culture kid…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: …in between and and not really at home. But he took convincing. Uhm, but no my wife’s all-in men. And my wife will go through a wall for the Lord…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: …and for the Gospel. And so, we shared this sense of calling that to us was affirmation. But I’ll tell you the other thing uhm planting as an older guy…CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: …Right? When you planted as a younger guy there’s a sense of which much of your life is still being aimed at uhm, stability and security and a sense of arriving.CLINT CLIFTON: Right.THABITI ANYBWILE: …You planted an older guy you you’ve been living on that plain for a little bit.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: Right? And you’re looking around and thinking “Okay is this it?” Uhm and, and I think out of that maybe older guys ought to have a clearer sense of what’s eternally important? CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm and older guys ought to have maybe a more settled maturity that keeps them from being fattish…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: …or easily discouraged or other things. CLINT CLIFTON: Right.THABITI ANYBWILE: That maybe younger guys fail. So actually, we need more older guys planting churches. Uhm and maybe given the last 10 15 years of their ministry. Uhm to getting new work started in a way that hopefully gives them balances and ballast.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah that’s really good. I I have planted unwisely when I was 24 years old. I was unprepared in so many ways. And uhm, tourists have kind of been ingracious to me, and I grew through out the process but uhm I’ve told guys over and over again if I had to do it I certainly would have spent a lot more time uhm, preparing and sort of sharpening the axe so to speak, getting ready but the, we don’t have many uhm church planters in your age category. But the ones that are in your age category are more effective free-fall church planters. Yeah, generally speaking. And uh, definitely less tossed about the kind of difficulty struggles that come along with church planting. They’re more sober minded what they’re going into.THABITI ANYBWILE: I pray so. I hope so. But hopefully you’ve workedyou’re your theological commitments…CLINT CLIFTON: Right.THABITI ANYBWILE: …you’ve worked out your ministry, philosophy, you know you’ve you’ve done that you know, in the ministry perhaps someplace else. Uhm, you’ve you’ve walked through the ups and downs of of caring for people Pastorally. And uh you perhaps then have a more well-formed sense of you’re not just church planting but your Pastor planting. You know you’re trying to put a Pastor in a context to build a church and hopefully that gives the work that more stability uhm just borne out of experience and hopefully some wisdom from experience. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. So on the issue of sort of race in the church when you think about when you spend a lot of your days right now influencing, teaching, writing to, speaking to primarily to white Pastoral audience. What do we, what do we need to know here, understand uhm about the current racial situation and our role as Pastors that we that we don’t understand.THABITI ANYBWILE: That’s a good question. Uhm, I’m reading Thomas Kidd’s new book right now who is an Evangelical. And uh, part of what that book is illustrating is that our racial problems are not new problems.CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: That Evangelicalism as a movement uh, has always in some sense multi-Ethnic (?)CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: But it’s always also been complicated by uhm racial fault lines, racial sins, racial misunderstanding and so on. So you know, Whitfield can you know? Lead revivals…CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: …and convince State Legislators to uhm, enact slavery, and build plantations, build orphanages using slave labor. Well that crack you know in the foundations, right there from the beginning. CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: And so part of what I would say to those pastors is man, read some good books on the issue. Thomas Kidd’s books is a great book uhm, Mark Knowles and David Bevington editor series on Evangelicalism 4-5 volumes…CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: …History of Evangelicalism. They do a good job in treating some of these issues especially Mark Knowles 2nd volume as a walk through that history. Uhm be honest about the history let the history inform us, it’s meant to be a blessing to us…CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: …not a threat. That’s the first thing I would say. Second thing I would say is uhm, try to learn not to bristle at unpleasant news and messages that are made to you to try and help you understand how other people are feeling and and engaging things. So for example if someone talks to you about privilege or White privilege don’t get offended by the labelling…CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: …try to understand what the other person is saying… CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: …Try to enter into the experience and to see without, without again bristling at the label to see okay are they articulating a truth here? CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: What specifically is true? What might be off? What might be accurate? How should I benefit from them? So just sort of acquire a humble posture…CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: …of receiving. You know, hard truth. CLINT CLIFTON: Sort of a fundamental Christian posture.THABITI ANYBWILE: That’s exactly right. Years ago I heard Joel McArthur said “Hard truth makes soft people.” CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: Now if that’s true, and I think it is. It’s true not just when were talking generally about the Gospel…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: …its true when were saying hard things to each other about other topics too.CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm and so, to receive that as a wound of a friend…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: It creates softness were there hadn’t been. So I would say that humble posture of receiving hard things. But I mean you agree with everything… CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: …but try to listen well. Uhm, and then last thing I would say is. There’s a sense in which where were well pass the sell by date… CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: …on quote-unquote conversations or the race conversations. Uhm, commit yourself to be a person of action. CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: Right? So commit yourself to dealing some hard things perhaps. CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: And often times they’re only hard because of privilege. Because of being accustomed of being in control or being the majority or whatever the case maybe. But commit yourself to doing those things. CLINT CLIFTON: Could you give me an example of of...THABITI ANYBWILE: Yeah I’m thinking of a church right now where it’s revealing its entire collection of processes and culture and thinking about “Okay were were people are hearing from our church family about where ethnic minorities feel comfortable, where they feel alienated, where they feel like they have access or don’t have access and and what are we doing to address that…?” CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: …beyond sort of platitudes or general messages. How does that inform our hiring process…CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm.THABITI ANYBWILE: …So say we want a diversified church, what are we doing to diversify the staff? I mean really what actions are we taking?CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm, in this particular church has a school and other so they’re just working through all of the ministries that hard conversation that really is about asking the next question or what do we do? What do we, how do we actually put shoe leather to this? And that it’ll look different for different churches. And I’m just sort of pressing the point about let’s get beyond the conversation. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: and say if this is a 300-year-old problem dating back to Whitfield and others…CLINT CLIFTON: MhmTHABITI ANYBWILE: Uh, we should probably have more progress under our beltCLINT CLIFTON: Right.THABITI ANYBWILE: Uh, and let’s be the generation that actually makes somes progress that makes some action and some risk in that way. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. That’s really helpful thank you for saying that. So going back to the church planting itself. The church is rooted now, how long how long you’ve been doing this?THABITI ANYBWILE: So it’ll be 5 years in April. Rooted rooted feels generous but I’ll take it. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. I know it feels fragile but really but in church planting terms you’re rootedTHABITI ANYBWILE: Mhm.CLINT CLIFTON: And so uhm, you’ve made the decision to lead the church to multiply early. I think in your like 2 or 3 years…THABITI ANYBWILE: Mhm.CLINT CLIFTON: you guys sent out a church planter…THABITI ANYBWILE: Mhm.CLINT CLIFTON: …just just in the city here. Walk us through making a decision like that.THABITI ANYBWILE: Mhm. Well we wanted to make planting churches to be in our DNA CLINT CLIFTON: Right.THABITI ANYBWILE: and so uh from the start we’ve had a missions budget that’s included International missions and uhm planting. So in that first year we actually contributed to another church plan uh financially in in Philadelphia CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: Uhm, when we started church we had a Pastor an elder with us Jeremy McClain CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: Who lived in Northeast DC just a couple of street. Very similar neighborhood as ours. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: He’s had a long ministry on this side of the river. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: Running after school program and so on. And he’s been bleeding for a church in that neighborhood. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: And uhm, and we so like yeah we want to be planting in neighborhoods like this around the city and the country. Uhm and so through partnership with McClain Bible and Jeremy sense of calling with let’s about year 2 let’s go ahead and plant a new work.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: And uhm, and so it felt it felt right to us. It felt like what the folks in Acts might have done.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: And say Hey the Gospel is needed over there. Hey come help us over here. Uhm and let’s send, let’s send a team. ‘Cause we had about 8-9 people who lived in that neighborhood…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: …and another 3-4 who were willing to move to do that work. And uhm so we thought that okay that might be enough of a team to get a new gospel word started there. And uh, through that partnership with McClain, Jeremy’s calling, that team’s calling. We were privileged to send them off uhm going on about 2 years ago now.CLINT CLIFTON: Mhm. Most Pastors would have had the impulse or church planters would have the impulse or the thought or maybe advice for others that would have said “Yeah, maybe you should plant churches but maybe not on the 1st year 2 to 3 years. Uh so certainly you thought that uh…THABITI ANYBWILE: …and they maybe right they maybe wise. But for us you know it was like. We want to see the Gospel multiply. Not just our main membership.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: Right. So if there’s a choice keeping 12 more people here. Right ‘cause were talking about 12-15 people here…CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: And seeing a regular gospel witness form in a neighborhood that needs another one. Okay that’s a no brainer for me.CLINT CLIFTON: Right. Right.THABITI ANYBWILE: We want to see that witness form because we want to see that gospel multiplyCLINT CLIFTON: You say, you say it like it’s a no brainer but You and I both know most Pastors don’t think like that.THABITI ANYBWILE: Welll well it is because we’re selfish and insecure. Right?CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah.THABITI ANYBWILE: You know, and I have it in my heart at times too. We’re like uh, again Jeremy’s a Pastor with us. We only had three.CLINT CLIFTON: Right.THABITI ANYBWILE: Right? So we’re going to lose a pastor…CLINT CLIFTON: Right.THABITI ANYBWILE: We’re going to lose 12 other folks Uhm in a town where it’s hard to do ministry.CLINT CLIFTON: Yep. THABITI ANYBWILE: You feel like you need to have every hands on deck. On one level you do.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. THABITI ANYBWILE: And as a new plant You feel like okay every new member gets us that much closed to being rooted and being established. Why would you send them off, till certain metrics are ticked. Well because in God’s economy you know ,right? It’s giving, it’s investing, it’s dying it’s planting that seed that actually gets multiplied. And so it becomes a question of Faith. And whether were living by faith. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah. That’s very John 12. Sort of sit down. THABITI ANYBWILE: Yeah that’s right. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah yeah that’s encouraging to hear. I see more and more Pastors I’m encouraged by. See more and more church plants while buying early.CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah yeah that’s encouraging to hear. I see more and more Pastors I’m encouraged by. See more and more church plants while buying early. And statistically speaking, you don’t know how much weight we put into this sort of thing. But churches don’t multiply in their first 5 years are very unlikely. They’re never multiply and you know I think about our church we we tried to we attempted to plant early. And sometimes failed…THABITI ANYBWILE: Mhm. CLINT CLIFTON: and sometimes exceeded. THABITI ANYBWILE: Mhm. CLINT CLIFTON: And uhm but uhm every time we attempted to plant we learn something about doing it a little bit better. And certainly stretched and grew our faith congregations caused us to focus on kingdom issue rather than local issues.THABITI ANYBWILE: Amen.CLINT CLIFTON: …in a way that was really healthy for our church. I think it trained us in a good way. I hope that’s trueTHABITI ANYBWILE: I think that’s spot on. I think that’s been our experience too right?.uhm and that and that willingness to try and say a church succeed and sort of walk away with your tail between your legs discouraged. We go like Nope. Were going to keep trying and pleading with the Lord the blessings. CLINT CLIFTON: Yep. THABITI ANYBWILE: that’s been life giving to us and every time we’ve sent you know people away, the Lord has added. The Lord has brought more folks. Its almost as if His saying “If you’ll be faithful with a little I’ll make you faithful over much. CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: that’s been life giving to us and every time we’ve sent you know people away, the Lord has added. The Lord has brought more folks. Its almost as if His saying “If you’ll be faithful with a little I’ll make you faithful over much.” Right? Which is right out from the scripture. CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: So that’s been our experience too. We were joyous as a church to see them go off. But there was some of our dearest friends. So we also wept, uhm but between mad and supporting missionaries early on. We sent out first short term team to Mombasa Kenya, were about a year and a half old. Uhm and so, seeing missions teams go off and things of that sort. Uhm, its just gave us a heightened sense of the Lord’s at work here. CLINT CLIFTON: YeahTHABITI ANYBWILE: And good things are happening here even before we thought they would and you know isn’t that wonderful? Let’s ask for more. CLINT CLIFTON: Yeah thanks. Uh, Pastor T, would you mind closing today by praying for the church planters who are listening and would you send them and strengthen them?THABITI ANYBWILE: I would be happy to. Father we thank you so much for raising up men to herald your gospel. For sending us into the world to make Jesus known to the flourishes of preaching. We believe that the flourishes of teaching is Your power and that the Gospel is Your power to save all those who believe. Lord in, uhm, new and bustling suburban communities and hard scrapple, inner city, neighborhoods, rural areas yes Lord and everything in between, we praise You for the power of Your gospel to convert and to build a church. And we just pray that you would encourage those whom you have called. You would give them confidence for their calling. We pray that you would give them. Wisdom and in some cases perhaps beyond their years in their experience. You give them a subtleness oh Lord in the truth of your scripture. And that you would quicken older men and older women to go out on church planting teams and to uh add Lord the blessings of experience uhm, to your work. Do all these things for your glory and for the spread of the good news and uh The salvations of the nations we pray. Bless the work of name. Bless the work of Nham, bless the work of the News City Network, bless Clint in his work and encouraging in equipping planters raise up a legion of Gospel uhm driven sold-out men and women to take the good news to the nations we pray. In Jesus name Amen CLINT CLIFTON: Amen. Thanks PastorALBERT: Where do church planters come from? Well they don’t come from seminaries and they don’t come from a factory. Church Planters come from congregations. Their developed by Pastors who love and are prepared for Gospel ministry and sent out. But many churches don’t know where to begin and many Pastors are overwhelmed with the day to day duties of Pastoral ministry and don’t have time to put together a robust training program for the people in their congregation to be equipped. The North American Nation Board is helping with this. They have developed a thing called the Multiplication Pipeline. And it’s a three-level training course that takes place through multiple years for you to have the material and the guidance to get somebody in your congregation ready for church planting. The Multiplication Pipeline is available on Nhams’ website, you can find it at nham.net/pipeline.ALBERT: Thank you for listening to the church planting podcast. Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review of your favorite podcast today.Today’s episode of the church planting podcast is sponsored by News City Network, The Church Planting Ministry of McClain Bible. A special thanks to todays guest Garrett Kell for taking time to join us. Josh Turansky produces todays show. Zukey Bastien was our show runner and her husband Nick was our editor. Thanks to Hudson Turansky and Marvin Moore who provided administrative and web support for the program and last but not least thanks to you for listening through to the end of the church planting podcast. Hey if you’d like to know more information about the show visit our brand-new website www.churchplantingpodcast.org. There you can see past episodes as well as notes as links for today’s show. And be sure to tune in next week our guest will be Svava who happens to be the master of the gift.

Ephesians 1:7 — How can the apostle Paul be so exuberant in praise about the grace of God? Why is the grace of God something the apostle constantly writes about? It is because he knew the grace of God; he experienced it. And it led to his worship and praise. In this sermon, Dr. Marytn Lloyd-Jones expounds Paul’s words on the riches of God’s grace. By better understanding God’s grace we get a glimpse into the very character of God. In the riches of God’s grace we see that he gives fully, freely and superabundantly. It can be no other way. He must give grace liberally because of who he is. Pastorally, Lloyd-Jones applies God’s grace to the Christian by highlighting our desperate need for it. Thankfully, his grace is sufficient for all our needs. Millions have drunk from it, yet it is still bubbling up, offering assurance for all who come and drink from it. The gracious and good news of the gospel is the free and full forgiveness for those who are in Christ Jesus according to the riches of God’s grace.

We feature an interview conducted in church with a domestic violence survivor.  It's a confronting and personal interview and does deserve a ‘trigger warning.' Jenni Woodhouse and Dominic watch as the abuse survivor tells her story, then Jenni critiques Dominic's pastoral handling of the situation.Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/thepastorsheart)

Pastorally -- and generally -- it is easy to miss the core of what's going on with a person in pain. You may see some symptoms -- tho' sometimes even the symptoms are hidden -- and may sub-rationally understand that something bad is taking place under the surface. But when it comes to the "Heart of Darkness" inside a sufferer, it may be very hard to fathom and to surface. Yet surfacing that "Heart" is the essence of what love is all about. How often in relationships have I missed the heart of the problem! This cast takes as its text a letter that Eric Clapton once wrote to Pattie Boyd. It is as heartfelt and simply surgical as a letter to another person -- let alone God -- could possibly be. If only all of us could lay out our elemental pain in such an open fashion. For then the pain, through active and concerned empathy, could be felt, and maybe healed. But that rarely happens. What happens instead is suicide, fatal irrational decisions, extreme actings-out, and interventions that inspire life-long regret in their aftermath. I think Eric Clapton's letter to Pattie Boyd should be required reading for anyone in the helping professions, and particularly in the ministry. Listen to it -- I'm not Alexander Scourby, but I tried -- and think of yourself. Or think of someone you truly love. Who is suffering in silence. Podcast 255 is dedicated to CHARLOTTE B. GETZ.

From Colossians 1:24-2:7, Dr. Jim Garretson explained the nature of the gospel ministry, applying lessons from Paul’s ministry to our situation at Florida Coast Church, reminding us to give thanks for faithful pastors, and calling us all to remain true to God’s purpose for the church in taking the gospel to others and building each other up in our faith.

The liberated people of God are a singing people, because God’s grace fuels praise

Explore the term, “adiaphora” (ἀδιάφορα) which means "things indifferent". This word is not used in Scripture, but Paul speaks of this type of thing in 1 Corinthians 8: 8-9, "Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak." What are the ways to approach adiaphora? Pastorally, we need to understand who the people are in the congregation and where they are coming from. We need to also be self aware of our bias that often prevents others from experiencing things that we rule out.

From Colossians 1:24-2:7, Dr. Jim Garretson explained the nature of the gospel ministry, applying lessons from Paul's ministry to our situation at Florida Coast Church, reminding us to give thanks for faithful pastors, and calling us all to remain true to God's purpose for the church in taking the gospel to others and building each