Agentic Shift

 In this episode of the Agentic Shift podcast, we talk to Jessica Chase, co-founder of Above the Fold, a programmatic advertising agency. Transitioning from journalism to marketing, Jessica emphasizes the importance of programmatic advertising for business growth. Chase shares her experiences at 1-800-CONTACTS and Rakuten, highlighting her focus on creating efficient processes within her agency. She underscores the necessity of emotional and psychological well-being for agency owners and the evolving landscape of marketing analytics amidst technological change.

 We talk to Mark Zamuner, founder of Juice Media. Mark shares his journey from founding the marketing agency Two Nil to evolving it into Juice. He discusses his experiences at eHarmony, the process of merging with Blackwood Seven, and the lessons learned from buying back his company. He emphasizes the importance of clear communication and alignment in partnerships, the need for long-term thinking in business decisions and the value of support systems in entrepreneurship.

We talk to Jon Morris, a returning guest, about the importance of strategic planning and innovation in agency budgeting. Jon emphasizes that every agency has a strategic plan reflected in their spending and highlights the need to connect budget allocations with strategic goals. He discusses the significance of identifying an ideal client profile (ICP) for targeted innovation and the necessity of adhering to standard operating procedures (SOPs) to ensure consistent service delivery. The conversation also touches on the challenges of predicting business growth and the role of technology in enhancing operational efficiency.

We talk to Erik Huberman, founder of Hawke Media. Erik discusses his journey from building and selling e-commerce companies to creating a marketing agency focused on small and medium-sized businesses. Hawke Media, now with 300 employees, operates as an "outsourced CMO," emphasizing accessibility and innovation. Erik shares insights on scaling while managing challenges like client churn, leveraging a $20 million venture fund to invest in MarTech, and building Hawke AI for predictive analytics. He predicts AI will have a growing impact on marketing, emphasizing adaptability and strategic advantage. Enjoy the show.

 In this episode of the Agentic Shift podcast, we talk to Carrie Kerpen, founder of the Whisper Group. Carrie shares her journey from marketing to founding one of the first social media agencies, inspired by her creative, unconventional wedding at a Brooklyn Cyclones game. She discusses the challenges of constant reinvention in social media, her agency's growth, and its eventual sale in 2021. Now leading The Whisper Group, Carrie advises female entrepreneurs on building sellable businesses and navigating exits. She emphasizes purpose-driven planning to avoid post-exit regret and champions women in business through mentorship and her upcoming book, The Whisper Way.

Ned MacPherson, founder of Endrock Growth and Analytics, shares how he scaled and sold his agency. Starting as a data consultant in 2014, he built a CRO-focused agency, growing 60-100% annually before being acquired by Power Digital in 2023. He emphasizes cultural fit in M&A, the challenges of scaling a data-driven business, and using AI for execution but not analysis. Post-sale, his team continues growing rapidly within Power Digital, reinforcing the importance of strategy, execution, and the right partnerships.

We talk to Phil Case, President and Chief Client Officer of Max Connect Digital. Phil shares his journey from studying Arabic for diplomacy to pivoting into marketing. He led a successful agency before joining Max Connect Digital, growing it from $17M to over $50M in revenue. He emphasizes audience-driven marketing, long-term brand building, and balancing performance with strategy for sustainable success.

We talk to Jerome Myers, the founder of DreamCatchers, who shares his journey from a corporate career to entrepreneurship and his mission to guide founders through successful business exits. The conversation explores Jerome's personal and professional transformation, emphasizing the importance of purpose, identity, and preparation in the exit process. Jerome highlights the challenges entrepreneurs face post-exit, such as identity crises, lack of purpose, and unfulfilling use of newfound freedom. Jerome introduces the “Founder's Exit Paradox” and shares a four-step framework, NEXT—Nourish, Evaluate, Explore, and Transcend—designed to help founders transition successfully after exiting their businesses. He underscores the significance of having a clear identity, aligning with personal values, and preparing for life beyond work to achieve fulfillment and avoid regret.

We talk to Todd Taskey, founder of Potomac Business Capital and host of the Second Bite Podcast. The conversation dives deep into the intricacies of mergers and acquisitions in the digital marketing and agency space, with a particular focus on companies in the $1 million to $5 million EBITDA range. Todd shares his firm's unique approach to sell-side transactions, emphasizing the importance of strategic deal structuring, fostering competition among buyers, and addressing key challenges like founder dependency and infrastructure gaps. He illustrates these points with real-world case studies, highlighting successful transactions that propelled companies to new heights.

I interview Adam Edwards, co-founder of Metric Theory, about the company's founding journey, challenges, and eventual sale to S4 Capital. Adam shares insights into the evolution of Metric Theory, from its beginnings as a pivot from Meltwater Reach's unsuccessful SMB-focused strategy to becoming a successful digital marketing agency. The interview provides a behind-the-scenes look at the growth of Metric Theory, highlighting how process-driven strategies, client-focused sales, and commitment to employee development contributed to the agency's success and eventual acquisition.

Marcel Petitpas, CEO of Parakeeto, talks about how his firm helps agencies and professional service firms measure and improve profitability. He outlines the primary reasons agencies struggle with profitability, which often boils down to "poor delivery margins." He discusses key issues like underpricing, inefficient use of labor, and poor utilization of staff as common causes for low profitability. He explains how agencies should focus on improving operational efficiency by either lowering labor costs or increasing revenue from labor.

We talk to Matt Widdoes, founder of MAVEN. Matt tells us how he has been able to effectively and profitably work with startups, often with less than 10 F/T employees, how he recovered from the sudden loss of several large clients simultaneously, how he successfully spent years as a professional poker player and how it helped him become a better marketer, and why we should all be playing backgammon!

We talking to Kris Tait, managing director, US for Croud. Kris tells us what he learned from door-to-door sales in the early days of Croud business, how he grew the US presence of Croud from nothing to a leading agency, why he believes in hustle and a bias for action, what a Croudie is and how it has differentiated their agency, and lastly, how to deliver a smart acquisition strategy to grow your agency.

We talk to Jon Morris, formerly the founder of Rise Interactive and currently the founder of Fiscal Advocate. Jon tells us how he created a screening test that only 22% of applicants passed, how to navigate the four stages of of a CEO, how his algorithm called CPR measures the effectiveness of an agency and the two most important financial metrics every agency should focus on.

We talk to Bryan Wish, founder and CEO of Arcbound, a full service personal branding firm. Bryan tells us why publishing a book doesn't magically build your personal brand, why getting press in major news outlets is sometimes great and sometimes not, the importance of building a community around you, the importance of hiring a great operator to partner with a visionary partner, and the number one lesson he's learned in scaling his business.

To download the Madison Alley "Value Drivers" PDF, use this link: https://file.io/XZ8DyQzVkZny

We talk to Jonathan Smith, EOS Implementer and Negotiations Trainer and Coach with the Black Swan Group. Jonathan tells us why the EOS system is so powerful, the importance of having an EOS implementer, and how to make EOS work for you for years after your initial implementation. He also tells us how he met and agreed to work with Chris Voss, the founder of the Black Swan Group and the best selling negotiating book, Never Split the Difference, and he teaches us some great negotiating tips from the book. I also share my riveting story about how I used the book to several hundreds of dollars in a car rental negotiation. Enjoy the show!

We talk to Pat McKenna, CEO of DMI Partners, a 100 person agency based in Philadelphia that focuses on affiliate and CRM marketing. Pat tells us why they tend to offer a single solution service offering to clients, why it's important to maintain quality as you scale, the one sentence that describes his agency culture, what he means when he says you should avoid a zero sum agency, why differentiation matters, and how COVID forced him and a client to make an incredibly fast pivot.

We talk to Sherrick Murdoff. Sherrick ran worldwide alliances and channels at Salesforce. Over more than a decade, he invested in over 80 different companies across 13 countries. Sherrick tells us why Salesforce was open to making minority investments in service companies, why he always wanted to make sure that everyone involved in a transaction felt it was a good deal for them, why so many of his investments did not have competitive bids from other investors, what he thinks distinguishes great private equity firms, and how he ended by investing in service companies alongside Sequoia Capital. Enjoy the show!

In this episode of Agentic Shift, we talk to Keith McCracken, founder of McCracken Advisory Partners, an international M&A advisory firm. Keith tells us about his early life in Liverpool, England (yes, he did cross paths with the Beatles on many occasions), his experience growing, selling, and then buying back an agency, as well as buying other agencies as part of a roll-up, why team members leave after an acquisition (and whether you should be worried), why selling a factory is easy, but selling an agency is hard, and why timing really is everything in agency M&A.

In this episode of the Agentic Shift podcast, we talk to Jesse Pujii, co-founder of Ampush and Gateway X, and the first person to be on two episodes of this podcast. Jesse tells us about the long and twisted path he took to eventually selling Ampush to Tinuiti, including several different business pivots, taking minority investment from Red Ventures, firing himself as CEO, hiring and then firing an investment banker, and working through the most challenging negotiating points to get the final deal done. He also shares what he's been doing post-acquisition. Enjoy the show.

Patrick discusses his background and how Level Agency was founded in 2010. He talks about their initial focus on the education vertical and expanding to other verticals like B2B, financial services, home services, and e-commerce. Patrick emphasizes the importance of being experts in a specific vertical while also having the ability to learn from different accounts. He mentions that agencies have an advantage in learning about channels due to their exposure to various clients. The conversation then shifts to M&A activity, specifically the management buyout of one of their partners. Patrick describes how he approached the idea of buying the agency from his partner and how they secured an SBA loan for the transaction. Overall, it was a smooth process guided by SBA guidelines which required a 100% cash deal without earnouts or rollover equity. Patrick discusses the process of selling their company and the involvement of the Small Business Administration (SBA). They explain how they had to follow SBA guidelines, go through a fair market valuation, and come up with a down payment for the sale. Patrick also mentions that they had favorable terms with the buyer and were able to borrow against their 401K for the down payment. They compare the process to buying an expensive house and mention that they had to complete all paperwork within a specific timeline. They emphasize that having experienced advisors was crucial during this process. Later, they talk about how a private equity firm was interested in acquiring their company after nine months of running it themselves. This decision turned out to be one of their best as it led to a successful partnership. Patrick acknowledges that their friend who sold them the company might have felt some regret or envy seeing what happened next but highlights their continued friendship. In terms of advisors, they initially worked with an MA attorney acting as an advisor during management buyout (MBO) due to dealing with an SBA loan, and later set up an advisory board consisting of industry experts when considering offers from potential acquirers. Patrick discusses the decision not to go through a formal process when selling their organization, as they believe it resulted in a fair deal. They highlight the benefits of working with agencies and employees that are not actively looking to sell or leave. The speaker shares an experience where running a process led to a higher offer for their company. They express satisfaction with partnering with Dubin Clark, emphasizing their financial expertise and support in mergers and acquisitions. The partnership also provides access to operating partners and financing opportunities. Patrick values Dubin Clark's belief in their vision and appreciates the ability to take risks while receiving guidance from experienced professionals. They stress the importance of assessing how potential partners handle difficult times before entering into an agreement. Lastly, they advise understanding concepts like adjusted EBITDA during the MBO or private equity process and recommend seeking assistance from a reputable sell-side advisor. The transcript discusses the importance of structuring books, representing expenses accurately, and understanding valuation methods for selling a business. It emphasizes the need to sell when the business is doing well and highlights the impact of showing a down year on valuation. The conversation also touches on the significance of having succession plans in place and being replaceable as a CEO or founder. It advises against overinflating one's value and stresses the importance of scalability and contingency planning. Additionally, it mentions that enterprise value increases when CEOs are replaceable and have built strong teams around them. The transcript concludes by discussing post-sale changes in responsibilities and the necessity of succession planning at all stages of a company's growth.

Richart Ruddie, the founder of The Reputation Management Company, talks about how he sold his business and the journey leading up to it. He discusses the importance of due diligence on potential buyers and shares an interesting story about a competitor who quit the industry to become a pastor. Richart also explains how he accidentally got into the online reputation management space and how his business grew over time. He mentions that he brought in a professional management team to make the business less reliant on him before eventually selling it in 2023. Throughout the conversation, Richart highlights the challenges and successes he experienced while building his agency.Richart initially spoke to another reputation agency owner but they were not interested in acquiring the business. He then connected with a consultant and used a site called Biz Buy Sell to find potential buyers and investors, including a private equity company. Richart also sought advice from friends who had sold similar companies and worked with Quiet Light Brokerage based in Charlotte, North Carolina. Ultimately, Richart chose to pursue the private equity route for a partial sale of the business. Biz Buy Sell was effective in reaching potential buyers and even attracted some clients. The broker at Quiet Light helped organize financials and facilitate buyer-seller calls. Having good organization and video demonstrations made buyers comfortable during meetings with the team in Utah. Richart had multiple offers but waited for the right one because they didn't have to sell urgently due to strong cash flow. Reputation played an important role in choosing the buyer since bad reputations can negatively impact deals. Meeting potential buyers through video calls was common, but there were also some in-person meetings, including one with a successful internet marketer based out of DC Virginia area who ultimately lost out on their offer due to financing issues.Richart discusses the challenges and complexities of selling a business, particularly an agency. He emphasizes the importance of preparing for the sale process by diversifying revenue streams and building a strong team. The value of an agency lies in its talent, making it a risky acquisition if key staff members leave. Richart also reflects on their own experience, highlighting the need to avoid certain mistakes and regrets in hindsight. After selling his agency, he remains actively involved as a consultant while pursuing other ventures.

Phil Palazzo, founder of PALAZZO, discusses various aspects of selling agencies in an interview. He highlights that growth is the most important metric for agency buyers and explains the complexity of due diligence. Phil shares his own experience of selling and buying back his agency twice. He emphasizes finding the best fit with a buyer rather than focusing solely on financial outcomes. Phil also mentions red flags when assessing compatibility between buyers and sellers, including falling asleep during a meeting. He differentiates his investment bank by emphasizing their industry experience and understanding from both sides of the M&A process. Phil advises clients on considering private equity or strategic buyers based on their specific needs and goals. Lastly, he reveals that many companies are not actually ready to be sold due to factors such as inadequate growth or scale.

Brian Bowman, founder of Consumer Acquisition, talks about the shocks that impacted his business and led him to sell it. He discusses the challenges faced due to changes in Facebook's Value Bidding, the impact of COVID-19 on the app business, and Apple's removal of their tracking ID called IDFA. Brian shares his decision-making process for selling the company and highlights the importance of working with an investment banker during this process. He also emphasizes the need for thorough preparation before putting a business up for sale and offers insights into contract negotiation, describing it as a challenging experience.The process of finalizing the purchase agreement was complex and required constant communication and iterations between Brain Labs in the UK and the speaker's team in San Francisco. Both sides were motivated to complete the deal before the end of the year, but it involved an enormous amount of work. The speaker emphasizes the importance and value of hiring a law firm for such transactions, as they provide expertise in foreseeing potential issues and proposing solutions. The lawyers worked tirelessly, acting as litigators and fighting for their client's interests during tough negotiations. Despite being expensive, their services were considered worthwhile.The transcript also reveals that while going through this process, the speaker faced personal challenges, including strain on his marriage that required therapy. He experienced exhaustion due to working long hours and pushing himself physically. Eventually, after successfully completing the sale, he suffered a health emergency requiring emergency open heart surgery.Post-sale life was impacted by external factors like changes at Facebook and Apple affecting business performance. Additionally, health issues led to retirement from work to focus on recovery and personal well-being.Throughout this journey, Brain Labs demonstrated supportiveness towards their executive team member facing health difficulties by providing assistance when needed.Retirement was not an easy decision for the speaker because building up the business felt like raising a child. However, knowing that his team was taken care of made it easier to let go.The speaker reflects on their retirement process and the challenges of starting a new business in a chaotic market. They mention the difficulty of leaving their role as the center of their industry and the belief that founders have in the value of their stock. The speaker emphasizes the importance of maintaining personal belief and focus to be successful as an entrepreneur. They compare retiring to losing control, similar to when a child goes off to college. The speaker acknowledges that selling a business can sometimes feel like sacrificing purpose for money. Their advice for founders considering a sale is to approach it with passion and energy while also ensuring someone capable runs the existing business during the process. The speaker shares their positive experience with selling a startup compared to one that failed, expressing gratitude for the opportunity and hoping their insights are helpful.

We talk to Sanjay Chadda, Managing Director of Canaccord Genuity. Sanjay tells us how to prepare for the marathon of selling your agency, why M&A is like a marriage, how a sale changes the way a founder runs his business, and how Sanjay's sale of his own business helped him become a better banker. Enjoy the show!

We talk to Sanj Parikh, head of client growth at Position Squared, a 200 person performance marketing agency based in Santa Clara, CA. Sanj tells us how he went from Lehman Brothers to Hollywood (including a role on Hannah Montana) and then to online marketing. He also shares the genesis of the name Position Squared (Google nerds will enjoy the story), how the mnemonic RAMP describes great client service, and whether you should be worried about algorithms taking your job someday.

Kevin Lord Barry is founder of Right Percent, a B2B performance agency. Kevin tells us why doing B2B social media is so challenging, what a visual headline is and why it is so important, how he has grown a team where everyone has a minimum of eight years of experience, and why he values a low touch, high trust culture. Enjoy the show.

Andreas Muller is co-founder of BlooFusion, a performance marketing agency based in the US and Germany. Andreas tells us how he started an agency to avoid moving to Houston Texas, how he won a Fortune 500 company shortly after starting his agency, why he gives away tons of information to potential clients via his Blooprint audits, and how cool and valuable it was to have a company wide retreat in Portugal this year!

Josh Krakauer is the Founder of Sculpt, a B2B social media agency. Josh tells us why he thinks focusing too much on one metric is a recipe for disaster, the five roles required for social media expertise, how he builds great culture in a fully remote environment, and why he believes in hustle and heart as two of his core metrics. An important note: Josh started his agency after graduating from the University of Iowa - Go Hawks!

We talk to Chris Goward, manager director of Wider Funnel, a conversion rate optimization and experimentation agency founded in Vancouver. Chris tells us how he got fired from an agency for being too scientific, what he considers the five levers of success in CRO, why test results are often countchrierintuitive, why he believes in the hedgehog principle, why he looks for mavericks with grit when he is hiring team members, and he explains Thursday awesomes and awfuls.

John McKusick is founder of NextLeft, a digital agency based in San Diego. John tells us about his days on the high school surfing team what is was like running a digital agency in 1999, why he is making his agency a B corp, how he created amazing content for a client to get them ranked #1 for the competitive term, baseball bats, and how he came up with the name NextLeft (hint, it is surfing related!)

Jean Ginzburg is Founder of Alpenglo Digital. Jean tells us why she encourages team members to invest five hours a week in learning, why and how she responds to all client requests in 24 hours of less, how she went from being an international relations major to running an agency, and why she was recruited by the CIA out of college (and for the record, we aren't 100% sure that she isn't actually in the CIA!)

Matt Quirie is Founder of ROIDNA, a B2B digital marketing agency. Matt tells us why every hire - even his EA - is given classes in ad tech, how client focus drove massive growth, what he means by “bring your whole self” as a core value, why he believes content is the future of marketing, and how he manages campaigns with very long lead to close times.

Martin Woolley LinkedInWhat's Possible Group WebsiteBlack Box Thinking, a book by Matthew SyedThe Hold Steady Band

Soso Sazesh is the founder of Growth Pilots, a performance marketing agency he sold to Wpromote in 2019. Soso tells us why most agencies aren't equipped to work with startups, why it's hard to scale an agency with startup clients, how firing one of his largest clients created a great culture, what he means by people, partnership, and adaptability, why performance marketers are convinced branding doesn't work and vice versa, and what it was like to sell his 20-person agency to a 600-person agency.

Agatha Chang LinkedInGRAIN Group WebsiteWinning Now, Winning Later: How Companies Can Succeed in the Short Term While Investing for the Long Term, a book by David M. Cote.The Loyalty Effect: The Hidden Force Behind Growth, Profits, and Lasting Value, a book by Frederick Reichheld

Prashant Puri LinkedInAdLift WebsiteZero to One: Notes on Startups, or How to Build the Future, a book by Peter Thiel and Blake MastersLeaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don't, a book by Simon Sinek

LinksStephanie Harris LinkedInPartnerCentric Website

LinksMike Nelson LinkedInFour15 Digital WebsitePurple Cow, a book by Seth Godin

LinksSteve Weiss LinkedInMuteSix WebsiteDaniel Rutberg LinkedIn

LinksJessi Pujji LinkedInJon Oberlander LinkedInAmpush Media Website

Tim Ringel LinkedInMeet the People WebsitePurple Cow: Transform Your Business by Being Remarkable, a book by Seth GodinWhat Got You Here Won't Get You There, a book by Marshall Goldsmith 

We talk to Tim Ash, founder of TimAsh.com. Tim tells us about the pros and cons of being 10 years ahead of key marketing trends, why working with clients sometimes feels like marrying an insane person, why one of his clients turned down a clear $17 million optimization opportunity, what his time as a child in the Soviet Union taught him about account management, and why he believes ageism is a problem in online marketing.

LinksJanel Laravie LinkedInChacka Marketing WebsiteTraction: Get A Grip On Your Business, a book by Gino WickmanRocket Fuel: The One Essential Combination That Will Get You More of What You Want from Your Business, a book by Gino Wickman and Mack C. Winters

Alex Porter LinkedInLocation3 WebsiteTraction: Get A Grip On Your Business, a book by Gino WickmanSimple Habits for Complex Times, a book by Jennifer Garvey Berger and Keith JohnstonOrganizational Physics, a book by Lex SisneyWhat Got You Here Won't Get You There, a book by Marshall Goldsmith

LinksJoe Lakin LinkedInVictory Enterprises Website

LinksDavid Canington LinkedInArdent Creative WebsiteThe 22 Immutable Laws of Branding—book by Al Ries and Laura Ries

Isaac Rudansky is founder of Adventure Media Group, a 40 person performance agency based in New York City and Philadelphia. Isaac tells us how his challenges selling his impressionist art led him to discover online marketing, why he covered his ceiling with tinfoil in the name of marketing education, what he means by idiotic optimism, the difference between giving everyone a voice and valuing experience, how content marketing has fueled his growth, and how he responded when a client called him at 11pm and lobbed personal attacks against him.

Lance Loveday LinkedInClosed Loop WebsiteTraction: Get A Grip On Your Business, book by Gino WickmanRocket Fuel: The One Essential Combination That Will Get You More of What You Want from Your Business, book by Gino Wickman and Mark C. WintersSimple Numbers, Straight Talk, Big Profits!: 4 Keys to Unlock Your Business Potential, a book by Greg Crabtree

Links & ReferencesMarty Weintraub's LinkedInAimclear WebsiteWhy We Buy, a book by Paco UnderhillFacebook Marketing to the (Lunatic) Political Fringe, a post by Merry MorudAimclear Psychographics Purple Cow, a book by Seth Godin