Podcasts about ICP

Mastering Ecosystem Growth and AI Transformation Subscribe to our Newsletter:https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this episode, Vince Menzione sits down with Rebecca Jones, Chief Growth Officer of Bridge Partners, to deconstruct the “Power of Three” co-selling model and the shift from AI experimentation to scalable business outcomes. They explore the critical importance of customer-centricity, the role of agentic workflows in solving complex B2B problems, and why the most successful leaders prioritize progress over perfection to show momentum within weeks rather than years. From her background in the financial sector to her experience scaling with industry titans like Microsoft, Rebecca provides a masterclass on navigating the current “tectonic shifts” in technology through strategic alignment and executive commitment. Key Takeaways Bridge Partners focuses on connecting strategy to execution, boasting a 90% referral rate driven by deep expertise in product marketing and partner ecosystems. The market is shifting from mere AI “dabbling” to purposeful applications in MVP and scale, specifically through agentic AI that tackles real business problems. Success in today's landscape requires knowing your underlying value and maintaining an unwavering focus on customer-centricity. The “Power of Three” (Hyperscaler, GSI, and ISV) remains the ultimate design for go-to-market scaling, provided there is a clear joint value proposition. To show immediate momentum, new executives should focus on “quick wins” achievable within six to eight weeks rather than long-term three-year plans. Effective co-selling requires removing blockers like compensation misalignment and securing top-down executive sponsorship across all leadership silos. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. https://youtu.be/nClWjCm6S6A At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags Rebecca Jones, Bridge Partners, Chief Growth Officer, co-selling, Power of Three, Hyperscaler, GSI, ISV, SAP, Microsoft, agentic AI, AI experimentation, pipeline velocity, pre-sales workshops, account-based marketing, ABM on steroids, GTM strategy, executive sponsorship, partnership ecosystems, B2B growth, tech industry trends 2026, Ultimate Partner, Vince Menzione, orchestration, value proposition. Transcript Rebecca Jones Audio Episode [00:00:00] Rebecca Jones: Because most of the agents I’ve seen drop into um, a lot of the areas where you and I can download are features. [00:00:07] Vince Menzione: Yes, [00:00:08] Rebecca Jones: they’re really feature agents. I love where we are ’cause we’re starting to tackle real business problems. [00:00:17] Vince Menzione: We just finished Ultimate Partners Winter Retreat here in beautiful Boca to a sold out crowd. Today I’m joined by Rebecca Jones, the Chief Growth Officer of Bridge Partners for this compelling discussion. Rebecca, welcome to the podcast. [00:00:33] Rebecca Jones: Thank you, Vince. [00:00:34] Vince Menzione: I am so thrilled to have you in Boca in the studio. [00:00:37] Vince Menzione: We’ve been working together now for a couple of years. We [00:00:39] Rebecca Jones: have, [00:00:40] Vince Menzione: and yesterday we were at the Ultimate Partner live executive winter retreat here in Boca. Uh, we’re recording in late February, early March timeframe. And, uh, just it was so thrilling to have everyone in the room yesterday. [00:00:55] Rebecca Jones: Was it? I mean, the energy. [00:00:56] Rebecca Jones: It was amazing. [00:00:57] Vince Menzione: Yeah, [00:00:58] Rebecca Jones: it was amazing. And thank you so much for having me. I mean, Florida’s gorgeous this time of year. It’s nice to get outta Seattle. [00:01:04] Vince Menzione: Well, it’s, it’s always, I, I, we, we love Seattle. Yes, we love, we do love to be in Seattle and especially in the spring, which we’ll be there together. We’ll talk about that in a little bit, but, um. [00:01:14] Vince Menzione: This is our first time actually having an interview. I mean, we’ve had you on stage. Yes. We’ve had Bridge as a part. Bridge Partners has been a partner. It’s ultimate partner. How’s that? And, uh, you’ve led some workshops. You help organizations to be successful and I thought just like to start out like, tell us more about you. [00:01:32] Vince Menzione: Yeah, bridge Partner and your role at Bridge Partners. And, uh, just to frame, to frame the conversation today. [00:01:40] Rebecca Jones: Okay. Of course. So let me tell you a little bit about my background. Um, I’ve been in the technology industry for a few decades now, and I started within the product and go to market, side of the house. [00:01:54] Nice. [00:01:54] Rebecca Jones: And I’ve navigated across a number of functional areas. From product to partner and sales. [00:02:02] Vince Menzione: So product development, [00:02:04] Rebecca Jones: engineering, [00:02:04] Vince Menzione: product marketing. Product marketing. [00:02:05] Rebecca Jones: Product marketing. [00:02:06] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:02:07] Rebecca Jones: Yes. And so when you look back on the areas of where I focus my time, it’s really how do you help customers grow and how do you help companies grow? [00:02:17] Rebecca Jones: Um, and a lot of my background is in B2B. [00:02:20] Vince Menzione: Very cool. [00:02:21] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:02:21] Vince Menzione: And where’d you get your start? [00:02:23] Rebecca Jones: I started actually in the financial sector. [00:02:26] Vince Menzione: Very cool. [00:02:27] Rebecca Jones: Yeah, [00:02:27] Vince Menzione: very cool. That’s, well, that’s a good grounding and [00:02:30] Rebecca Jones: it’s an excellent grounding. And when you look back, and when I look back at what that provided as a foundation, it’s really the economics of a business and how do you help a business and what are the trend lines behind that by industry and and whatnot. [00:02:45] Rebecca Jones: And so I moved from that over to. More agency view, and so the real market facing view and then back inside to really look at how companies develop their products and bring ’em to market. [00:02:56] Vince Menzione: That’s an exciting, well, I think it’s exciting. I hope our listeners and viewers think it’s exciting and I know Bridge Partners because when I was at Microsoft, we worked with Bridge Partners. [00:03:06] Vince Menzione: But for the listeners and viewers that are with us today, maybe a little bit of background about the company and its, and its structure and go to market. [00:03:13] Rebecca Jones: Yeah, of course. So Bridge Partners is almost 20 years old. [00:03:18] Vince Menzione: Wow. [00:03:19] Rebecca Jones: Wow. [00:03:19] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:03:19] Rebecca Jones: Can you believe it? [00:03:20] Vince Menzione: We were newbies when I was working with you. [00:03:22] Rebecca Jones: We, we were newbies and uh, the company was really founded on the principle of how do you connect strategy to execution. [00:03:32] Rebecca Jones: And within that, our first customer was Microsoft. [00:03:36] Vince Menzione: Interesting. [00:03:37] Rebecca Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, and that was an incredible spot to be and an incredible time to be in a company that started to evolve and grow with one of the titans in the industry. And obviously a incredible market leader in the tech industry. [00:03:56] Vince Menzione: Well, and that time 20 years ago, ’cause I was, I was along for that journey. [00:03:59] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:04:00] Vince Menzione: Uh, it was a time of tumultuous change at Microsoft. [00:04:03] Rebecca Jones: Yes. [00:04:04] Vince Menzione: Uh, in fact, we were talking about the, uh, entrepreneur’s dilemma earlier, uh, today, and Microsoft was going through that period where, you know, we, everyone loves Steve Bomber, but there was a time within the organization that it was stuck. [00:04:18] Rebecca Jones: Mm-hmm. [00:04:19] Vince Menzione: And it had to transform as an organization. [00:04:22] Rebecca Jones: A hundred percent. And so when you think about companies like Microsoft, it’s not only what they do, but how they bring that to market. Yep. And uh, so when you think about where Bridge Partners started and having the privilege to be in Microsoft of all places to, um, cut your teeth on you look at where we started and where we’ve grown from there. [00:04:44] Rebecca Jones: Uh, within the tech industry, we’ve worked across, um, multiple hyperscalers. We’ve worked across, uh. Really the top tier tech and telco, those top 100. Yep. And all the household names. And then throughout that, across the partner ecosystem, because you and I both know these companies grow and scale their businesses through the partner ecosystem, and so we’ve been privileged to work across. [00:05:08] Rebecca Jones: Multiple depth and breadth partners in that play. [00:05:12] Vince Menzione: And as an agency, are you more known for project management go to market? Uh, what, what are the areas and focus where the outcomes that you achieve? [00:05:21] Rebecca Jones: Yeah, so we’re known for. Being on the growth side of the house. And how I define that is you find us in marketing, but that center of gravity is in product marketing. [00:05:32] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:05:32] Rebecca Jones: And then how you scale that through partner ecosystems and then supporting that field or that sales organization. So when you think about those three pillars within the organization, that’s where you’ll find us. [00:05:43] Vince Menzione: And why would I choose Bridge Partners? [00:05:46] Rebecca Jones: Oh, well, um, based on experience. Um, and then when you think about Bridge Partners, it’s not, um, just what we do, but when you take a look at our engagements and background, we’re over 90% referral. [00:06:01] Vince Menzione: Wow. [00:06:02] Rebecca Jones: And so people take us with them and um, what I look at is have we actually moved the needle or driven the customer outcomes? And when you think about the customers that we’ve worked with and the companies in this industry. It’s quite a roster and I don’t take that lightly because if you’re going to help support these companies and help them grow, it’s a testament to how we were able to accomplish that. [00:06:27] Rebecca Jones: Because all these companies have complex enterprise organizations. Their go to market is nuanced and how they want to, and then, um, get and grow. And so these are just a couple of the different ways that we’ve been able to be successful. [00:06:42] Vince Menzione: Fantastic. You know, you’ve done workshops at our events and talked to our community about how to help them achieve their greatest results. [00:06:50] Vince Menzione: What would you say to them? Now we’re living in this time? I, I I, I said this earlier, I don’t want to use the term tectonic shifts, but I’m running out of words to describe how tumultuous this time feels right now to me. [00:07:03] Rebecca Jones: It’s interesting you say that. I was thinking about that. ’cause both you and I have been in the industry for a bit. [00:07:08] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. And, um, there’s some pattern recognition happening right now for me and how I look at the go to market and these, these points in time and the evolution and. This point in time, it is a tectonic shift. But a lot of companies have other, have had to go through these challenges before. If you think about, um, the migration to the cloud and [00:07:33] Vince Menzione: yes, [00:07:33] Rebecca Jones: all of the unlocks that it has, and at the end of the day it’s, it’s shifting and thinking about new business models and it’s shifting and thinking about go to market, but there is. [00:07:43] Rebecca Jones: There are things that ring true no matter where you are. And one of the things I’ve always taken a look at is, do you know your underlying value and relevance in market? And are you being customer centric? That never goes outta style, right? Do [00:07:58] Vince Menzione: you know your value and are you customer centric? That makes a lot of sense, right? [00:08:02] Vince Menzione: Yeah. And do they, what do you do? And, and do they, how do what, how do they answer to that question? [00:08:07] Rebecca Jones: Well, that’s a, that’s a thinking question. Yes. Right? Yes. It takes a minute to think about that. Um, where is your moment of relevance with a customer? [00:08:16] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:08:17] Rebecca Jones: Where is your moment of relevance with a customer? [00:08:19] Rebecca Jones: And when you think about your reason to exist as a business, you have a really defined ICP, an ideal customer profile, and where’s your moment of relevance and. Yes. There’s a lot happening right now, and I think also because of where we sit in the industry and being in the midst of all of these giants with incredible technology to bring to market. [00:08:44] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. We’re, we’re in the front end of this wave or the, the, the tectonic shift that you’re talking about. It’s just, you know, it’s unsettling to a certain degree, but it’s really energetic and it’s. Dynamic and, and there’s so much opportunity out there. So [00:08:59] Vince Menzione: much so, you know, you had me thinking about the $600 billion that’ll be invested this year and just in cloud infrastructure and chips, right? [00:09:08] Vince Menzione: Yeah. So data centers and chips, and talk about that being like kind of creating this wave, this huge tsunami that’s coming for the beaches and, and everything seems to be. Every week there’s a new announcement, and recently it’s been philanthropic and clawed. And yes, uh, the markets are reacting. They’re, um. [00:09:30] Vince Menzione: They’re almost, uh, imploding in some ca in some cases because they’re trying to react the financial analysts, they’re trying to react to what’s happening right now. [00:09:38] Rebecca Jones: It, the investment is massive and it’s, it’s incredible and it’s massive. And over the last year, you saw a lot of experimentation. Yeah. And you saw a lot of dabbling, a lot of, you know, quite. [00:09:52] Rebecca Jones: Frankly, a little bit of concern about is this gonna pay off? [00:09:56] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:09:57] Rebecca Jones: And when you look at where we are in this chain cycle and this adoption cycle, we’re right at the front end, the early adopters. And so a lot of the work that we’re doing, and where I’m focused on is how do you move from experimentation? To truly having some movement over into MVP and scale. [00:10:18] Rebecca Jones: And so I’ll just harken back to Yeah, [00:10:19] Vince Menzione: please. [00:10:20] Rebecca Jones: That product mindset of when you’re looking at opportunity within the business, there was a lot of, um, there was a lot of pockets of experimentation just for fun. Just for fun. And so when you look across the business, um, and what, what we observed was, um, businesses of all different sizes, experimenting and, and some were just, they’re fun, they’re dabbling, right? [00:10:45] Rebecca Jones: But it, it changed in the second half of last year, people became much more thoughtful, much more purposeful, um, thinking forward about how would this be applied to my business? Yeah, because the question now isn’t. Could we do this? It’s really, should we do this [00:11:03] Vince Menzione: right? And and there was a period of time, I don’t mean to interrupt you, but there was a period of time when we were talking about earlier in in last year, we were talking about halluc hallucinations still. [00:11:13] Vince Menzione: Yes. So there was a lack of confidence on the platform side. Yes. Microsoft had brought out. Uh, it’s copilot solutions early to market. And there was some, uh, pushback from the community saying, we’re not seeing the results of that. Yeah. From the financial community specifically. And then I think what you said is then the second half of the year things started to change. [00:11:35] Vince Menzione: There was greater confidence. The [00:11:36] Rebecca Jones: Yeah, [00:11:37] Vince Menzione: I’d say the models got better. [00:11:38] Rebecca Jones: The models got better. But when you think about innovation, that’s inherent risk, [00:11:43] Vince Menzione: right? [00:11:43] Rebecca Jones: Right. Yes. When, when you’re on an innovation curve, yes, that’s risk. And so you have to look at as any great CFO will tell you diversification innovation. [00:11:56] Rebecca Jones: When you start to look at that market landscape, you’re creating risks. Yes. So they’re investing a lot and they wanna know when the payoff is coming back into the business. Right? Or back into the market. [00:12:08] Vince Menzione: So Rebecca, where is the AI market right now? [00:12:13] Rebecca Jones: Oh, that is a tough and great question, Vince. [00:12:18] Vince Menzione: I mean, we’ve gone through it and I’ll, I’ll kind of frame this for, yes, for, for everyone, at least from my perspective of what’s happened, right? [00:12:24] Vince Menzione: So, uh, September, 2022. Chat, GBT. Yeah. So we get into chat bots or chat bot, chat bot, chat bot, chat bot the first year or so, beginning of last year, 2025. A agentic AI really starts to take hold. It’s, it becomes a new term. In fact, I don’t think we were even using the term agentic AI before the end of 24, beginning of 25. [00:12:47] Vince Menzione: And then agents have really proliferated, um, all of the marketplaces now have agents and people are developing their own agents and so on. And all the tools, like all, all the cloud tools have agent capabilities. And now, um. We’re in 2026 and we’re still in the first quarter. It feels like the agents are starting to rule the world and maybe taking over the world [00:13:10] Rebecca Jones: they might be. [00:13:11] Vince Menzione: Yeah, [00:13:11] Rebecca Jones: right. There is definitely a proliferation of agents and I’m anticipating a lot of consolidation of that. ’cause most of the agents I’ve seen drop into, um. A lot of the areas where you and I can download are features. [00:13:26] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:13:26] Rebecca Jones: They’re really feature agents and those will get consolidated ’cause the where we are and you ask where we are in the market. [00:13:33] Rebecca Jones: What I love. I love where we are ’cause we’re starting to tackle real business problems. And what I’m observing and what we’re working on is really helping connect back into the business to really start that transformational work. [00:13:48] Vince Menzione: So take us through that. I’d love that. I’d love, give us a scenario or [00:13:51] Rebecca Jones: give us a use case. [00:13:52] Rebecca Jones: Do this. Yeah. I think’s really great scenarios here that I can walk you through. And first and foremost it is, and I’m gonna go back and I talked about specialization in specialty areas. Yes. That’s really important. Um, we talked yesterday during the conference around, um, industry. What industry are you in? [00:14:11] Rebecca Jones: You know, I’m in tech and that’s, that’s, we know that industry, we know those business models really well. That’s extremely important. And then you move within that. And what functions do you know and functions in this, you know, order are the product marketing function, how does that work? [00:14:30] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:14:30] Rebecca Jones: How does that work in an enterprise organization or a sales function or a. [00:14:36] Rebecca Jones: Partner function. And within that, what are all the workflows? How do these teams operate together? And so that’s where that curiosity comes in of not just how you did the work. How is the work orchestrated? [00:14:49] Vince Menzione: Inter orchestration is a huge topic area. [00:14:51] Rebecca Jones: Orchestration is a huge topic. Let’s, let’s go [00:14:53] Vince Menzione: there. [00:14:54] Rebecca Jones: E Exactly. [00:14:55] Rebecca Jones: And that’s where that curiosity, you know, I was talking about pattern recognition comes in how is the work designed? And that becomes. The blueprint for how you start to think about agentic workflows. And if you don’t have a great workflow, you don’t wanna replicate that in an agent, but Exactly. You definitely need to understand that. [00:15:18] Rebecca Jones: And so why don’t I take something that, um, I think will resonate for anyone listening to this podcast, because everyone is probably looking for growth this year and wanting to accelerate [00:15:28] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:15:29] Rebecca Jones: Sales. Their pre-sales funnel. So if we just take that pre-sales motion and specifically now with where partners might play in that or where, um, technology companies might want to enable their partners better. [00:15:47] Rebecca Jones: When I start to break down a pre-sales function, you have areas within that. Whole workflow that your marketing department might be driving. They might be driving top of the funnel or or demand programs. And then as you move down the funnel, let’s call it mid funnel, that really has opportunities for partner and field sellers to come in and. [00:16:07] Rebecca Jones: You might be seen or observing that your, um, pipeline velocity is not where you want that, right? Mm-hmm. You might be, you know, as they say, stuck. Stuck. [00:16:18] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:16:19] Rebecca Jones: And so when you start to look at what agents could do within that, I’ll use a real use case, um, around pre-sales workshops. You and I are both familiar with that. [00:16:28] Vince Menzione: We, we are, we were just talking about this last night, in fact, at dinner, about pre pre-sales workshops and how this is still such a vital component, how organizations work together. [00:16:37] Rebecca Jones: Such a vital component, um, for multiple reasons, right? You get to engage directly with the customer. You get to spend time with that customer. [00:16:46] Rebecca Jones: You get to ensure you understand what are their most pressing use cases and really help them design and buy into a solution far before you get to a proposal. And quite frankly, if you do this right. You also have an adoption plan, and then think about it from other functional areas in the organization. [00:17:02] Rebecca Jones: You start to pattern match across those presale workshops. You can start to see the use cases that are most valuable in market and start to put that into your messaging. So you think about presale workshop, it’s just not the activity of having a workshop, but if you could build an agent. To really help design around partners, enabling partners to deliver better presale workshops. [00:17:27] Rebecca Jones: Interesting. And how are you ingesting information that goes into the workshop? How are you helping, um, develop materials and first drafts faster for proposals post? How are you. Data is informing this. What are you collecting and what are you providing, and then what are you delivering? If you take that one simple component in a pre-sales process, you can see where I’m going. [00:17:53] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. All of a sudden, an ecosystem starts to show up around how could you connect better back with product marketing? What are they doing? What could you inform them with, with the data that you’re bringing in? [00:18:03] Vince Menzione: Interesting. [00:18:03] Rebecca Jones: And then what are the. Deterministic pathways outside of that, that you could be informing downstream down to first, first stress faster on proposals. [00:18:13] Rebecca Jones: Are you helping those partners with an adoption plan? The service partners in there. And so that is the designer and the architect of understanding how that workflow comes to life. And then you can really start to think about the outcomes that you wanna drive. And that’s where I love to start the conversations. [00:18:31] Rebecca Jones: That shouldn’t be an afterthought. That should be where you start. [00:18:35] Vince Menzione: So how do you, how do you, how do you start with this? You gave me a great example, but how do you apply this in the business? Like what do you take when you meet with a client to talk about pre-sales workshops as an example? [00:18:47] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:18:47] Vince Menzione: You take a proforma of what a pre-sales workshop would look like. [00:18:51] Vince Menzione: I’m, I’m, I. I might be wrong on this, but you have, like, you, you now have, uh, AI or AI that they go out and pull the data that you would normally ask maybe in some, some, uh, process, uh, information flow process that we grab and, and pull this into the, to the, to the form. The [00:19:10] Rebecca Jones: first question I always ask is, why. [00:19:12] Rebecca Jones: Why is this so important and valuable? I might have an assumption why, based on my experience, but I want the facts, right? I wanna know how they’re measuring it today, so we have a baseline and I wanna understand what their goals are. [00:19:28] Vince Menzione: Okay? [00:19:29] Rebecca Jones: Are they looking to increase revenue? X percentage. Uh, how many deals are they anticipating? [00:19:38] Rebecca Jones: How many presale workshops do they typically deliver through partner a year? Are they looking to scale that? Probably, yes. Are they looking to increase the value that they’re getting into contract post presale workshop? Probably yes. But I want that empirical data. And then I also wanna know where are they storing that? [00:19:57] Rebecca Jones: Where are they sourcing that? And so it, it really. The question and the question set really is understanding the business outcomes and the why. I, I ask a lot of why, and it really helps you frame in what would be the best outcome or the best solution, and then where do you start? Because there’s a lot of appetite for a. [00:20:21] Rebecca Jones: A transformational workflow from A to Z. And that’s a hard place to, [00:20:26] Vince Menzione: it’s hard show momentum. It’s hard. It’s hard, [00:20:27] Rebecca Jones: right? [00:20:27] Vince Menzione: It’s, it’s hard to document your current workflow flows. [00:20:30] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:20:30] Vince Menzione: Let alone come back and do this ally. [00:20:33] Rebecca Jones: Yes. [00:20:34] Vince Menzione: And create the best outcomes. [00:20:36] Rebecca Jones: Yes. [00:20:36] Vince Menzione: So I go back to this and I go, well, what, what creates the best outcomes? [00:20:39] Vince Menzione: Where the customer signs at the dotted line, and then how do you work back from that to the pre-sales workshop? Is that how [00:20:46] Rebecca Jones: you do it? A hundred percent. It’s a hundred percent. And then where do you start? How do you show, um, progress, not perfection. And so in this world, there’s a lot of, um, pressure. To show progress, outcomes, momentum. [00:21:00] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. And these very significant investments that are being made. And so how do you get them to quick wins? And so you know this, for any new executive coming into role, what are your quick wins? Yes. Right? Yes. You need to transform an organization, you need to transform a function. How do you set them up for success? [00:21:19] Rebecca Jones: And that’s always in my mind, that’s always in the mind of. The bridge partners, leaders of how do you set this leader up for success? And it’s that point between strategy and execution. How do you help them show quick wins? And so I broke you down that process. Yep. Of how would you think about in that use case, how to bring that back and help them show quick wins? [00:21:42] Rebecca Jones: Not in six months or a year, but in six weeks to eight weeks. How do you, how do you get them on that journey and then help them build to that next slide. And [00:21:51] Vince Menzione: in fact, that’s how you, you, you’ve made your, your name or your fame in the industry is really coming in and helping some of these executives, especially when they’re newer in role. [00:22:00] Rebecca Jones: Yes. [00:22:00] Vince Menzione: And those of us who’ve been around the Microsoft ecosystem know this well. Like you get asked day one, what’s your plan? The, while the fire, while the fire hose is blowing in your face at a hundred, a hundred miles an hour? Uh, what’s your plan? [00:22:14] Rebecca Jones: What’s your plan? What’s your [00:22:14] Vince Menzione: plan? [00:22:15] Rebecca Jones: What is your plan? [00:22:16] Vince Menzione: Yeah, yeah. [00:22:16] Vince Menzione: And then you have to show some measurable results fairly quickly. [00:22:19] Rebecca Jones: You have to [00:22:20] Vince Menzione: because you’re asked to get up in front of everyone. Yeah. Very soon. [00:22:23] Rebecca Jones: And that’s a blueprint that we have. We have, it’s a quick win. And when you think about all of these organizations that we’ve worked with, um, speed to market is a value signal. [00:22:36] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:22:36] Rebecca Jones: Right? And that speed and quality. Where are you willing to take the risk? Where are you willing to fail fast? And what outcomes are non-negotiable and what are, and so when you look at that, there’s, there’s conversations that need to be had on. And being able to filter out the noise to get down to what’s really gonna move the needle, um, for our clients and for the executives that we work with. [00:23:06] Rebecca Jones: So they can show momentum and progress quickly. And then we talked a lot about it. We don’t do three year plans, right? We’re gonna help you show progress in months, [00:23:16] Vince Menzione: nice. [00:23:17] Rebecca Jones: And in quarters, right? It’s not, um, 10 years. [00:23:19] Vince Menzione: Can anybody even have a three year plan anymore? [00:23:22] Rebecca Jones: Who’s got one? [00:23:23] Vince Menzione: I’d love to spend some time on co-selling with you. [00:23:25] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Just because I know this was a topic that came up one of our workshops in the Yeah. We hosted, yes. Last year we hosted a session. With another partner. Bridge Partners. [00:23:34] Rebecca Jones: Yes. [00:23:35] Vince Menzione: And you talked about the power of three and I know you’ve published some information about the power of three. I thought maybe we’d talk about that. [00:23:41] Vince Menzione: ’cause I think that is fascinating and it seems very relevant even in yesterday’s conversation. Uh, there was a conversation about another partner, uh, that is looking to build an ecosystem that hasn’t really thought about building out an ecosystem before, as an example. And this, this, I think is some of the work that you do really applies against this. [00:24:01] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. This, I mean, it, it’s a hot topic, right? Yeah. Power of three, which fits under the umbrella of co-sell Yes. And co-selling. And everyone has a slightly different definition, so I’ll define where we play. Good in there. Um, and then I’ll talk to you about the power of three, um, because that’s one of. Um, I’ll call it the scenarios under co-selling. [00:24:23] Rebecca Jones: Yes. And it’s a very popular one. It [00:24:24] Vince Menzione: is pop Well, it is for v various reasons too because, and I’ll just set the context for this. We were used to co-selling being a technology organization and a and a hyperscaler, like a Microsoft. [00:24:37] Rebecca Jones: Yes. [00:24:37] Vince Menzione: Going to do something together and driving direct output or sales. Now we have finally seen where marketplaces, which has become the co-sell engine, have now enabled the channel. [00:24:49] Vince Menzione: Um, the reseller enabled, uh, offers now to now, uh, operate on behalf of, and so at least in that case, that’s three right there. Now, there might be more than just three. We talk about the seven seats of the table, but the power of three is palpable right now. [00:25:04] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. Let me tell you about that concept of the power of three. [00:25:07] Rebecca Jones: ’cause when you think about the classic one [00:25:10] Vince Menzione: yeah, [00:25:10] Rebecca Jones: it’s a hyperscaler. [00:25:11] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:25:12] Rebecca Jones: A GSI. And then an ISB. [00:25:15] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:25:15] Rebecca Jones: Right? [00:25:16] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:25:16] Rebecca Jones: I mean that’s the, that’s the power, the powerful power, the three three, [00:25:19] Vince Menzione: the three giants in the [00:25:20] Rebecca Jones: room. The three giants. Yeah. And that’s rarefied air. [00:25:24] Vince Menzione: It is [00:25:25] Rebecca Jones: very [00:25:26] Vince Menzione: verified air. It’s, [00:25:26] Rebecca Jones: yeah. Right. And, uh, we do, we have a published article on that, um, and running a power three with SAP, uh, and it is, um, it changes the dynamics. [00:25:41] Rebecca Jones: Of how companies are gonna scale and grow in this market, right? [00:25:46] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:25:46] Rebecca Jones: Because we know, um, that what got you to this point? Is likely not gonna get you to that next stage of growth. And all the conversations around the platform play is the partner ecosystem, right? And I look at the opportunity, not just with the power through, I’m gonna talk to you a little bit more about that story and what we’re doing there and how we’re looking at that. [00:26:12] Rebecca Jones: Um, but it is the ultimate. Design for your go to market. Yeah. When you think about how partners and the various types of partners can help you scale, but you need to know what you need. You absolutely need to know, [00:26:29] Vince Menzione: yeah. [00:26:30] Rebecca Jones: What are you trying to achieve in your go to market and what’s missing? [00:26:34] Vince Menzione: What are the gaps? [00:26:34] Vince Menzione: Gaps? [00:26:35] Rebecca Jones: What are the gaps? Are the gaps before you apply? Yes. The power of three, or I’ll talk to you about a couple other use cases within that. So the power of three. Has long been on everybody’s, you know, can, can we get this done right? Can you pattern match the customer set? I’ll often refer to it as a BM on steroids, account-based marketing and on steroids. [00:26:59] Rebecca Jones: Can you pattern match, um, the, the hyperscaler, let’s just use Microsoft in this scenario, the, the. High potential customers of Microsoft Joint with SAP joint, with A GSI. And the more specialized and specific you get in there, it’s not just any, because think about the size of these, you know, companies. Yeah, right. [00:27:24] Rebecca Jones: Then you start to look at, well, let’s get a little bit more specific on these product sets, these industries, these use cases. And then you start to refine that where you can start to identify your greatest opportunity for growth. So that’s the first stage of that. And it is, you know, we, we think about where is that overlap and where is that opportunity, but how do you activate that? [00:27:51] Vince Menzione: And it’s complex because, uh, as you, as you mentioned those three. Organizations, each of them have different go to markets. [00:27:59] Rebecca Jones: They do, [00:27:59] Vince Menzione: they have different, a different mapping of their geographies and their ideal customer profiles. [00:28:05] Rebecca Jones: Mm-hmm. [00:28:06] Vince Menzione: Um, and they, yeah, and they apply different tactics and selling tactics and channel tactics and so on that you have to layer in or you have to take into account when you build this. [00:28:15] Vince Menzione: And SAP’s a very different go-to market motion than a Microsoft, than a, than a, an EY or any name the GSI percent. Yeah. [00:28:23] Rebecca Jones: And so that is why not only is it, um, complex from a. Sharing and figuring out what data you’re going to share. Yeah. But how do you activate it? How [00:28:35] Vince Menzione: do you activate it? [00:28:36] Rebecca Jones: And uh, and that is what all companies are striving to do. [00:28:41] Rebecca Jones: Who are you gonna go to market with? Yeah. What is your best play in the industry? And so I, you know, while this one. There’s very few companies that are gonna be able to activate directly with the hyperscaler, right? Yes. Uh, Microsoft AWS or Google. Um, but there are ways in which you can apply this strategy no matter the size of your organization. [00:29:05] Rebecca Jones: And so when you think about. The power of three. It could be any combination. You are the designer, you are the decider of who is in your power of three. And when you start to kind of unpack that a little bit, it could be Microsoft, SAPN one ISV, or it could be a combination of complementary I ISVs that unlock a play. [00:29:28] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. [00:29:29] Rebecca Jones: Like migration to the cloud. [00:29:31] Vince Menzione: Right. [00:29:31] Rebecca Jones: Like it, it could be [00:29:33] Vince Menzione: backup and recovery. I could rattle off the different types of solutions. Yeah. [00:29:37] Rebecca Jones: What is, where are you seeing the greatest opportunity to scale and what ISVs could come in to help you do that? So when you extract that from the power of three, the classic power of three of Costone, you brought that down to, you know, how do you think about that in the masses of marketplace? [00:29:56] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. Or partners of any size. I like to bring this back to. Where do you believe your greatest opportunity is? Do you have, um, opportunity or weakness in your portfolio, your product set? Could a partner come in and help augment that? Do you have a tech platform and you need a services arm to help extend that? [00:30:19] Rebecca Jones: I I mean the, it it, the world’s your oyster. Yeah. You get to kit this together any way you need and then. The power of bringing these companies together. And you and I both know, and that was much of the conversation yesterday, is, um, the greater goodness of companies coming together Yes. To compliment one another to solve a customer problem. [00:30:39] Vince Menzione: How do you take it from concept to execution? Because to me, that’s. Especially when you’re talking about not just one organization like a micro, you’re working with a Microsoft or an SAP, but you’re layering in three types of organizations and you’re going across different sales motions. How do you get them all? [00:30:58] Vince Menzione: How do you get them all aligned in working together the right way? [00:31:02] Rebecca Jones: Magic. Magic. [00:31:03] Vince Menzione: Okay. [00:31:04] Rebecca Jones: I’m kidding. [00:31:04] Vince Menzione: Call bridge, call Rebecca [00:31:07] Rebecca Jones: Magic. [00:31:07] Vince Menzione: Nine nine nine five five five five. [00:31:09] Rebecca Jones: Let, let, let me, uh, let me talk about that because [00:31:13] Vince Menzione: Yeah, [00:31:13] Rebecca Jones: it’s one, there’s the good work, there’s the good thought work and the strategy of how to ensure you’re, you’re pointing and you’ve got the team lined up, right? [00:31:22] Rebecca Jones: Right. And the players lined up. But activation of that. Oh, [00:31:28] Vince Menzione: massive work. [00:31:29] Rebecca Jones: It’s massive work. Yeah. And it’s not a set it and forget it. [00:31:33] Vince Menzione: Right, [00:31:34] Rebecca Jones: right, [00:31:34] Vince Menzione: right. [00:31:35] Rebecca Jones: And when you think about the alignment, and you talked about we, we’ve got different fiscal year ends and we’ve got different sales and center plans. I will talk about a few things. [00:31:45] Rebecca Jones: One, executive sponsorship, top down. [00:31:48] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:31:48] Rebecca Jones: Right. Um, ensuring, you know, compensation. You gotta get rid of the blockers and the barriers. [00:31:55] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:31:56] Rebecca Jones: And you have to make it easy and you have to create that space because it’s really, and I’ll talk to you about some of the platforms and technology behind it, but it’s humans working together. [00:32:07] Rebecca Jones: There’s a lot of power in what we’re able to do now with, um, part tech platforms and with agentic solutions. And how do you automate this and how do you bring more power and visibility? Better than ever and, and more than ever. But at the end of the day, we’re activating teams. Across companies. Yep. To work together to bring this together. [00:32:34] Rebecca Jones: And there are playbooks, um, and any, there’s great playbooks out there, but you need to activate that. [00:32:41] Vince Menzione: You need to activate it. And you, you said you gotta get the executive commitment at the top? [00:32:45] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:32:46] Vince Menzione: Not just at the CEO level, but across the leadership team. That’s right. In every silo. Uh, you’ve gotta get, uh, the organization, you have to get compensation taken care of because those, those can be blockers, those could be real blockers from getting the results you want to get. [00:33:00] Vince Menzione: And then you gotta get activation. [00:33:03] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:33:03] Vince Menzione: Right? [00:33:04] Rebecca Jones: You gotta get activation and you have to be really clear on how you’re gonna activate what’s gonna move the needle. And you have to be ready to test, learn, optimize, and you need to put those into sprints. So I’ll give some examples around that. [00:33:20] Vince Menzione: Please do take us through the sprints. [00:33:21] Vince Menzione: ’cause this is, this is getting beyond the theory now. This is what I really wanted to capture with you. Take us through it. [00:33:28] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:33:28] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:33:29] Rebecca Jones: So let’s just say we’ve got, we’ve got a power of three. [00:33:32] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:33:32] Rebecca Jones: You know, um, ready to roll and, and we’ve picked our industry and we have our use case. Um, between the three of us, the three players, you’re gonna start by allowing someone, and in this case it’s been Bridge Partners to really ensure we have a joint value prop, um, proposition for that end customer. [00:33:54] Rebecca Jones: Mm-hmm. And, you know, you gotta take a little ego out of the room. Typically on the power of three, you’ve got the leading companies coming in. But at the end of the day, if you’ve done this right, it’s, it’s customer first. It’s what’s gonna help solve this customer pain point in that language. And then when you think about activation, it’s who’s, who’s in role first? [00:34:20] Rebecca Jones: Right. And who’s taking point in these customer conversations. Right. Okay. And that is really, really, that’s important. Important. That is important. Who has the relationship? Yeah. Who is going to take lead and who’s gonna follow? And it gets all the way down to whose paper. Is this on? And that’s, that’s sometimes hard. [00:34:41] Rebecca Jones: You’ve got three players in the room, but it’s incredibly important to have those conversations and ensure that this is really end state for the customer. Yeah. So really going through roles and responsibilities and how are we gonna architect this for the customer’s success. Yeah. So that is a critical component of the playbook and then understanding. [00:35:02] Rebecca Jones: Where and what programs are we gonna drive, and then who’s taking what actions. And so I, I mentioned a BM on steroids a little before. Yes. There’s amazing things that you can be doing in market, [00:35:14] Vince Menzione: account-based marketing, [00:35:15] Rebecca Jones: m account-based based marketing, you dunno. Um, account-based marketing and there are some amazing things. [00:35:20] Rebecca Jones: Really truly connected sales and marketing, in this case. Connected sales, marketing and partner. Yeah. And how do you activate these partners together? [00:35:27] Vince Menzione: You used the term part tech, which. Not everyone understands partner technologies. Yes. Organizations like Partner Tap, work Span. Yeah. Tackle. [00:35:37] Rebecca Jones: Structured. Yeah. [00:35:38] Vince Menzione: Structured. If you, these are companies that help with co-selling methodologies, marketplace methodologies. [00:35:44] Rebecca Jones: Yes. [00:35:45] Vince Menzione: Or combining all of those, [00:35:46] Rebecca Jones: if you know, uh, J McBain, uh. Beautiful visual flat map of, um, it looks a little, the 28 moments. Yes. I was just, well, the 28 moments and he’s got the part tech landscape. [00:35:59] Vince Menzione: Oh, [00:35:59] Rebecca Jones: the islands. The islands. [00:36:00] Vince Menzione: Yes. The islands. [00:36:00] Rebecca Jones: Yes, we got it. But there are part tech solutions that support [00:36:03] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:36:03] Rebecca Jones: Partner programs, co-sell programs, partner marketing, you know. Yes. And really help to automate a lot of those processes. [00:36:11] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:36:12] Rebecca Jones: Um, and a lot of those programs. [00:36:13] Vince Menzione: So Rebecca is such a great conversation today. [00:36:16] Vince Menzione: I mean, we can go. Thank you so deep on this. [00:36:18] Rebecca Jones: I know. [00:36:18] Vince Menzione: Which means that we’re all gonna have to be back together in Redmond. You live in the Seattle area? I do. And you’ll be with us. Um, we’ll be hosting the Ultimate Partner, live in, uh, may, May 11th to the 13th. If you’re marking your calendar as listeners and friends, uh, and you’ll be there and. [00:36:36] Vince Menzione: Probably driving some more of this conversation in a workshop format, I hope. [00:36:41] Rebecca Jones: I hope so too. Yeah, it was really rewarding last year. I mean, there’s nothing more powerful to be in the room with partners because the partners are frontline to customers. [00:36:51] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:36:51] Rebecca Jones: And understanding what they’re seeing and hearing. [00:36:53] Rebecca Jones: And I always think voice of the customer is your ultimate signal. Yeah. So I can’t wait to be there. [00:36:58] Vince Menzione: Very cool. And I have a favorite question I ask all of my guests now. Uh, it is a favorite of mine. You are hosting a dinner party and you can choose where in the world you wanna host this dinner party, and you can invite only three guests, though from the present or the past to this amazing dinner party. [00:37:18] Vince Menzione: Whom would you invite Rebecca and why? And why? [00:37:22] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. Yeah. I’d, um, this is such a great question. I think on every single day I’d have a different collection of folks that I’d want at my home. Uh, I’ve had dinner at some amazing places for me. I would love to host this at my home. [00:37:38] Vince Menzione: Very cool, very [00:37:39] Rebecca Jones: cool. Uh, and the people that I would want there for this particular dinner party, I’m gonna pick, um, three iconic women. [00:37:51] Rebecca Jones: Coco Chanel, [00:37:52] Vince Menzione: Coco Chanel very cool [00:37:54] Rebecca Jones: designer. [00:37:55] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:37:56] Rebecca Jones: Um, really changed how women thought about an identity and wardrobe. Um, I would invite Georgia O’Keefe. Wow. She’s my favorite artist. [00:38:07] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:38:08] Rebecca Jones: Um, she is one of my favorite artists. Uh, I’m, uh, art and history background. And, uh, [00:38:16] Vince Menzione: that explains, [00:38:17] Rebecca Jones: that, explains that, um, a really interesting perspective. [00:38:22] Rebecca Jones: I love her view on landscapes and. She, [00:38:26] Vince Menzione: that’s why I know her as, you know, landscapes [00:38:28] Rebecca Jones: a landscape artist, um, and much more behind that. And then I would bring one of my favorite authors in, who’s Tony Morrison? [00:38:36] Vince Menzione: Tony [00:38:37] Rebecca Jones: Morrison. [00:38:38] Vince Menzione: I don’t know Tony Morrison. [00:38:39] Rebecca Jones: Oh, um, I would, beloved is her book and Oh, yes. When you think about. [00:38:45] Rebecca Jones: Um, and this is really my passion, my background in art and literature and design, and to have three, three women there, that voice of Tony Morrison, you’ve put that book on your list. Okay. It, it, it changed my life. Uh, and, um, Coco Chanel and, um, Giorgio O’Keefe, I think it would be a really interesting conversation. [00:39:07] Rebecca Jones: I love very cool trailblazers, women who really helped. I don’t know how much they recognize how much they really changed the narrative for other women, um, in their fields and together. But I think it’d be a really fun evening. [00:39:23] Vince Menzione: Very different. Very different. Uh, I was, I know a little bit about Cocoa Chanel ’cause my mom was always in the beauty and fashion industry. [00:39:31] Vince Menzione: So as a kid growing up, I mean her shoe was iconic. [00:39:34] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:39:34] Vince Menzione: Iconic. Chanels an iconic brand was iconic. And, and she was a, wasn’t she a survivor of the. Of, uh, Nazi Germany maybe or something. There’s some, there’s some background or there’s [00:39:44] Rebecca Jones: some background. Flee. Flee [00:39:45] Vince Menzione: Nazi Germany [00:39:46] Rebecca Jones: or something. And what she’s really known for is, um, well many things, but yes, as a designer, really changing the tone and temperature Yes. [00:39:56] Rebecca Jones: Of um. How, you know, fashion and female identity. I think she, um, created the, what everybody knows is the little black dress and really got all that more structured and more modern look and feel of how to, how to wear and just really created a powerful path. [00:40:14] Vince Menzione: Very cool. Yeah. Very cool. [00:40:15] Rebecca Jones: So that’s who I’d have it, this one. [00:40:16] Vince Menzione: That will be a funer. [00:40:17] Rebecca Jones: Next time I’m on your podcast, I’d have a whole new crew. [00:40:21] Vince Menzione: Okay. Well I might. Bring dessert. If you don’t mind, I might bring a little, maybe a little chocolates I think maybe might be very appropriate would for this group and just maybe pop in for a few minutes. [00:40:29] Rebecca Jones: That would be great. [00:40:30] Vince Menzione: Because I don’t wanna inter interrupt the flow my, because this is be a great conversation. Oh my, [00:40:33] no, [00:40:33] Rebecca Jones: you would, I think you’d have a ball. [00:40:34] Vince Menzione: Okay. I, [00:40:35] Rebecca Jones: I mean, I know how close you were to your mother. [00:40:37] Vince Menzione: I am. [00:40:37] Rebecca Jones: And so, yeah. [00:40:39] Vince Menzione: So, um, this isn’t, again, I use this tumultuous term, but we are living in interesting times right now. [00:40:47] Rebecca Jones: We are. [00:40:47] Vince Menzione: And for all of our viewers and listeners. What is your advice to them? What is the one thing you would say? We’re in the first quarter of 2026. Yeah. This ball is moving fast or this puck is moving fast. Yeah. If you were a hockey player, um, what would you say to us now? What, what, what is the one thing you would go do if you’re not doing it now that you should be doing? [00:41:11] Rebecca Jones: Take a moment. Take a moment. As leaders. Your company and your organizations are looking for clarity. They’re looking for a path forward, and there’s a lot of energy out there, which is very exciting, but it can be also very distracting. [00:41:30] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:41:31] Rebecca Jones: So hold some confidence and clarity for your organization and figure out where you need to be and where you’re going. [00:41:39] Rebecca Jones: That’ll help set your strategy, and this will all come into view. And so what I look to is how do we help enable the organization to grow? And by doing that, you ha you have to put the oxygen mask on yourself. Yeah. Take a moment. [00:41:53] Vince Menzione: Pause. [00:41:55] Rebecca Jones: Pause. Reflect, reflect. I told you I walked down to the beach this morning. [00:41:59] Rebecca Jones: It’s a great moment. Take a moment for yourself. It’s not passing you by. We’re just getting started. [00:42:06] Vince Menzione: Did you hear that? My friends and listeners? Take a moment. And so great to have you here in the room. Yeah. [00:42:13] Rebecca Jones: Thank you so [00:42:14] Vince Menzione: much. Thank you. And I want to thank our listeners, our viewers, for following along, ultimate Guide to Partnering and our YouTube channel Ultimate Partner. [00:42:23] Vince Menzione: And please, please, please come join us. We have an incredible year ahead. This was our event, number one of five. And Ultimate partner Live will be in Bellevue on the 11th through the 13th of May. [00:42:36] Rebecca Jones: Yeah, I’ll [00:42:36] Vince Menzione: see. You’ll see you there. Rebecca will be there. It’s [00:42:38] Rebecca Jones: in my backyard. [00:42:39] Vince Menzione: It’s in your backyard. And we are gonna have incredible leaders in the room. [00:42:42] Vince Menzione: So thank you for watching. Thank you for listening to The Ultimate Guide to Partnering. [00:42:47] Rebecca Jones: Don’t forget, ultimate Partner Live is coming [00:42:50] Vince Menzione: soon, May 11th through the 13th in beautiful Bellevue, Washington. I hope to see you there.s I, as I wrap up here, I just wanna make sure that what, where

This week, join Peter and Chris as they deep dive into the fourth track off of RiddleBox, the almighty third jokers card from ICP , "Chicken Huntin' (SlaughterHouse Remix)" as well as all of the other versions and remixes! Sit back and listen as they dissect the lyrics and content of the track, discuss various chicken sandwiches, talk about buying cd and tape single, and tackle important topics like remixes that are better than the originals!      The LinkTree is at https://linktr.ee/juggalorwd... Twitter/X: @JuggaloRWD IG: @JuggaloRWD Facebook: @JuggaloRWD TikTok: @JuggaloRWD Threads: @JuggaloRWD BlueSky: @JuggaloRWD The website is www.JuggaloRewind.com. Join us everywhere to talk to other listeners and about ICP, Twiztid and random juggalo nonsense. Email us at juggalorwd@gmail.com or call/text us at (810) 666-1570.        Join our Patreon! For only FOUR DOLLARS a month, you can join Kilnore's Army and get at least two bonus episodes per month, videos, chats and more! Even without paying, you can join the Patreon community! Become an official member of the Phat or Wack Pack today! -- Juggalo Rewind Patreon. Additional music provided by the IRTD. Voiceover work provided by Christmas. All music played is owned by the respective publishers and copywrite holders and is reproduced for review purposes only under fair use. #ForTheJuggaloCulture

Market Logic Software sits at the intersection of market intelligence and enterprise AI — helping companies like Procter & Gamble and Unilever move from gut-feel decision-making to insights-driven operations. When Dirk Wolf stepped in as CEO five years ago, the business had impressive logos but a fundamental scaling problem: every customer had been co-built with, deeply customized, and operationally entangled. High retention masked an unsustainable model. In this episode of BUILDERS, Dirk breaks down how he restructured the GTM motion, made the deliberate choice to walk away from revenue that couldn't repeat, launched an AI product in Q2 2023 before most companies had a roadmap, and is now repositioning Market Logic as an agentic intelligence hub embedded inside enterprise infrastructure.Topics Discussed:The co-development trap: why deep enterprise relationships can become a scaling ceilingMaking the call to cut a government ARR contract to protect repeatabilityImplementing SaaS KPIs and customer segmentation from scratch inside an existing businessHow the marketing motion evolved — from executive roundtables to measured digital channelsBuilding a productive marketing-CFO relationship through outcomes and milestonesLaunching an AI product in Q2 2023 and tracking enterprise sentiment shift in real timeWhy the downstream ICP experiment failed and how they course-corrected fastThe vision for Market Logic as a proactive agentic system inside enterprise tech stacksGTM Lessons For B2B Founders:The co-development trap is a silent growth killer. Market Logic had strong retention and marquee customers — but had co-built so many bespoke solutions that the business couldn't replicate itself. No repeatable sales motion. No scalable delivery. When Dirk came in, he recognized that what looked like customer success was actually a ceiling. If your top accounts each required their own version of your product, you don't have a business yet — you have a services firm with SaaS ambitions. The fix starts with ruthless product scope decisions before you touch GTM.Cutting revenue is sometimes the GTM move. Dirk walked away from a US government contract — real ARR, on-prem, fully customized, no path to replication. The decision wasn't financial modeling, it was strategic clarity: you cannot build a repeatable motion while simultaneously maintaining one-off revenue that pulls engineering, CS, and leadership attention in a different direction. Most founders know this intellectually. Few actually do it. The willingness to let that revenue walk is what creates the conditions for scale.Segment by growth potential, not by decibel level. One of Dirk's first structural changes was introducing proper SaaS KPIs and customer segmentation — because without them, resources defaulted to whoever was loudest. That's almost always the smallest, most difficult accounts, not the ones with the most strategic upside. The discipline isn't just about where sales focuses. It cascades into product prioritization, CS allocation, and where leadership time actually goes. ICP isn't a marketing exercise — it's an operating model decision.// Sponsors: Front Lines — We help B2B tech companies launch, manage, and grow podcasts that drive demand, awareness, and thought leadership. www.FrontLines.ioThe Global Talent Co. — We help tech startups find, vet, hire, pay, and retain amazing marketing talent that costs 50-70% less than the US & Europe. www.GlobalTalent.co//Don't Miss: New Podcast Series — How I Hire Senior GTM leaders share the tactical hiring frameworks they use to build winning revenue teams. Hosted by Andy Mowat, who scaled 4 unicorns from $10M to $100M+ ARR and launched Whispered to help executives find their next role. Subscribe here: https://open.spotify.com/show/53yCHlPfLSMFimtv0riPyM

In this episode of the Revenue Leaders Podcast, we break down how to build a client acquisition system that helps businesses generate predictable revenue and consistently win new clients.Many companies struggle with sales not because their product is weak, but because they lack a structured client acquisition strategy. Without a clear system, teams rely on guesswork instead of a repeatable process for attracting and converting the right customers.In this episode, we discuss:• Why most businesses struggle with client acquisition• How defining your ideal customer profile (ICP) changes your sales outcomes• The key components of a client acquisition system• How to align your sales process with the buyer journey• Why trying to sell to everyone damages your pipeline• How to build a sales system that creates predictable growthThis episode kicks off our 6-part Client Acquisition Series, where we break down the frameworks sales leaders and founders can use to design a scalable client acquisition engine.If you're a founder, sales leader, or revenue operator looking to get more clients consistently, this episode will help you rethink how your sales system should work.Subscribe to the Revenue Leaders Podcast for more insights on B2B sales strategy, revenue leadership, and building predictable growth systems.⭐ Unlock free resources (templates, frameworks & prompts):⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://coachpilot.beehiiv.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join the community & access 157+ templates, frameworks and mega AI prompts used by top revenue teams.Watch Full Episode on YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@revenueleaders⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow us:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/davidfastuca/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Send a textTank Abbott's WCW years in Part 2 of our exclusive interview on theMMA History Podcast. From negotiating with Eric Bischoff over Vince McMahon, training at the Power Plant under legends like Paul Orndorff and Dusty Rhodes, to wild angles like the jacket-on-a-pole brawl with Big Al (yes, that knife moment at SuperBrawl 2000), Tank spills the unfiltered truth on backstage politics, his near-title run, and clashes with icons like Goldberg and Sid Vicious.Fact: Tank debuted in WCW on December 13, 1999, as a legit UFC heavyweight (with wins over Yoji Anjo and Hugo Duarte) brought in to feud with Goldberg, but navigated a rollercoaster of mutinies and mishaps until his 2000 release.0:00 MMA history podcast intro  0:32 Joey Venti's guest introduction 0:48 interview start 2:14 Tank Abbott vs Yoji Anjo 7:12 Tank Abbott being a large draw in UFC 11:50 experience fighting in Japan 15:09 Tank Abbott vs Hugo Duarte 21:39 dedicating fight to Frank Sinatra 22:45 never called out by Rickson Gracie25:11 Tank Abbott vs Pedro Rizzo27:12 incident with Pat Smith 29:28 relationship with Jeff Blatnick30:51 thoughts on Joe Rogan 36:12 rumored fight with Butterbean 37:27 issues before Frank Mir fight 41:18 where the term “Mixed martial arts” came from 46:32 Eddie Ruiz update 48:25 conversations with WCW 59:05 training at the WCW power plant 1:01:27 locker room attitude towards wrestlers 1:05:10 introduction during WCW taping 1:08:19 pushback from the WCW locker room 1:10:36 cutting a Promo on Bill Goldberg 1:12:18 plugs/ promotions 1:14:02 grabbing owner of Chicago Black Hawks 1:15:22 issues with Bob Probert 1:16:20 issues with Terry Taylor 1:19:40 advice from Sid Vicious 1:23:05 false rumors of winning WCW Title 1:28:43 Doug Dillinger 1:29:05 Jerry Flynn 1:29:33 Mark Madden 1:29:52 Chris Cruz 1:31:28 false rumored match with Mark Coleman 1:32:20 pulling out knife during match with Big Al  1:43:40 questioned before match by the locker room 1:46:11 losing wresting match to David Arquette 1:47:38 Tank Abbott vs Goldberg 1:51:32 introduced to the ICP 1:53:36 staying in shape during WCW 1:55:31 being a fan of 3 Count 1:58:44 drinking with the ICP1:59:56 released from WCW 2:02:20 dealings with Bob Sapp 2:03:26 interview wrap up 2:11:39 outro/closing thoughtsPlease follow our channels on Follow the MMA History Team on Instagram: MMA Detective Mike Davis @mikedavis632 Co Host Joey Venti @aj_ventitreRecords Keeper-  Andrew Mendoza @ambidexstressSocial Media Manager Andy Campbell  @martial_mindset_Thumbnails Julio Macedo  @juliosemacentoInstagram https://www.instagram.com/mmahistorypodcast?igsh=aHVweHdncXQycHBy&utm_source=qrSpotify https://open.spotify.com/show/3q8KsfqrSQSjkdPLkdtNWb?si=aL3D5Y3aTDi-PQZdweWL8gApple Podcast MMA History PodcastYouTube https://youtube.com/@MMAHistoryPodcast?si=bj1RBXTZ2X82tv_JOutro song: Power - https://tunetank.com/t/2gji/1458-powerMike - The MMA Detective - @mikedavis632 Cash App - $mikedavis1231Venmo - Mike-Davis-63ZELLE: Cutthroatmma@gmail.com / ph#: 773-491-5052 #MMA #UFC #NHB #MixedMartialArts #MMADetective #MikeDavis #MMAHistory #OldSchoolMMA #MMAPodcast #fightpodcast Thank You for your supportSupport the show

In this episode of Content, Briefly, Eric Doty and Chloe Thompson tackle a question every content marketer faces: where do great content ideas actually come from?Spoiler — it's not keyword tools or AI prompts. Eric and Chloe walk through the internal sources they rely on most, from lurking obsessively on company Slack channels to mining sales calls, customer success conversations, support tickets, and product usage data. They dig into why talking to customers (or at least listening to their calls) teaches you more than months of ICP research, and how tools like Fathom and Gong are making it easier to do meta-analysis across transcripts at scale.The conversation also covers external idea sources — private communities, industry publications, and strategic LinkedIn feed curation — before shifting to their personal ideation processes. Chloe shares how she balances keyword lists with a running idea bank, while Eric reveals a clever Slack automation hack that builds internal visibility for the content calendar and invites ideas from across the company. It's a practical, honest look at how to fill your content calendar with ideas that actually resonate.This episode is sponsored by uSERP. Mention Superpath when you book your strategy call at userp.io, and they'll add five bonus high-authority link placements to your first month on top of your package.************************Useful Links:Follow Eric on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edoty/ Follow Chloe on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chloethompson3/************************Stay Tuned:► Website: https://www.superpath.co/► YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@superpath► LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/superpath/► Twitter: https://twitter.com/superpathco************************Don't forget to leave us a five-star review and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

On the podcast: breaking free from the paid acquisition treadmill, how to repurpose offline events into millions of online impressions, and why a celebrity partnership can go viral but still completely flop.This conversation is shorter than usual and will be featured in RevenueCat's State of Subscription Apps report. Each episode in this series will explore one crucial topic and share actionable insights from top subscription app operators.Top Takeaways:

Great marketing does not start with your product. It starts with your customer. In this conversation, I speak with marketing strategist Scott Hornstein about why storytelling, customer research, and trust are the real drivers behind successful brands. Scott shares lessons from decades in marketing, including his work with IBM and major technology launches, and explains how companies often fail when they focus on themselves instead of the people they serve. You will hear how listening to the voice of the customer can reshape messaging, build trust, and unlock growth. Scott also reflects on entrepreneurship, resilience, family, and the mindset required to get back up after setbacks. I believe you will find this conversation both practical and encouraging as you think about how relationships and trust shape business success. Highlights: · Creativity in Queens – Scott reflects on how music and culture shaped his early creativity.04:10 · From Literature to Marketing – His love of books leads him toward storytelling and marketing.12:57 · Learning to Experiment – A mentor teaches the value of trying ideas and learning from failure.20:46 · The Customer as the Hero – Scott explains why marketing must center on the customer.31:48 · Customer Insight Drives Messaging – Research helps reshape a company's message and market entry.41:23 · Resilience Through Setbacks – Scott reflects on perseverance in life and business.50:59 Top of Form Bottom of Form About the Guest: I currently live in Reston VA, my wife and I having moved there to be close to our 2 daughters and our 2 granddaughters. I am an independent business consultant specializing in storytelling – which embraces marketing, research, and content. Family is the most important thing in my life and it has taught me that lasting relationships, business and personal, are steeped in empathy and commitment. I was born in Manhattan on July 25, 1950. My parents soon moved the family to the up-and-coming borough of Queens. I attended the public schools in and around Forest Hills.  Writing was always my goal. I graduated NYU as an English major.  Upon graduation I traveled, then pursued my (naïve) dream of living as an artist – as a writer, an actor, and a musician. I wrote plays for the brand-new cable industry, wrote for a movie-making magazine, was in several off-off Broadway plays, worked as a pick-up musician. I helped in the office for a former professor to earn subway money. Got tired of starving to death. Took a job with CBS in the Broadcast Center, pulling together the Daily Log for the local station. Then, got hired to answer Bill Paley's mail. Then, I was hired as a marketing manager for Columbia House where I got some of the best advice – keep going. I met this guy from my neighborhood while commuting to my job in Manhattan. Turns our he worked for Y&R and said they were looking for someone. I interviewed and jumped over to agency-side work as an Account Executive, then Account Supervisor, then, going back to my roots, copywriter and eventually Creative Director. The entrepreneurial life has been a roller coaster, but I have been blessed to work with some brilliant people in marketing and sales, and some great companies. It allowed me to understand how I can really help my customers become successful in the long-term. Ways to connect with Scott**:** LinkedIn Medium www.hornsteinassociates.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Well, hi everyone, and welcome once again to another episode of unstoppable mindset today. Our guest is Scott Hornstein, although when he came into the Zoom Room, I said, is it Hornstein or Hornstein? And of course, he also understood, because we're both of the same age, and are both fans of Young Frankenstein, who always said that his name was really pronounced Frankenstein. But you know, you have to have to know Gene Wilder for that. But anyway, if you haven't seen that movie, you got to see it. Mel Brooks at his best, but Scott is a marketing person and specializes a lot in storytelling, which fascinates me a lot, because I am a firm believer in storytelling, and I know we're going to have a lot of fun talking about that today. So Scott, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Scott Hornstein  02:20 Thank you so much, Michael. I have to start by saying I have great respect for your work, and this is really quite a privilege for me. Thank you very much. Michael Hingson  02:32 Well, thank you. You're a long way from where you were born, in New York, in Manhattan. Now you're in Reston, Virginia, but that's okay. Well, you're not that far. It's just a short train ride, a few hours. Scott Hornstein  02:41 I That's true. That's true, although with that particular train, you can never be sure exactly how long it's going to be good Michael Hingson  02:52 point, yeah, yeah, good point. It is one of the things one has to deal with. But that's okay. But, you know, I've taken that train many times, and I've taken the the Metro liner as well, and also just the regular train. And I like the trains. I enjoy the train. I wish we had more of them out here. Scott Hornstein  03:15 I do too. I when it a long time ago in business, when I had a client here in DC, and I was living in Connecticut, I started taking the train, and it was so superior to flying. Oh yeah. And then recently I was, as I was mentioning to you, I was in Germany and taking the trains there is just wonderful. It's so superior. Michael Hingson  03:47 Yeah, I wish we would have more of them out here. If I, for example, want to take a train to San Francisco from where I live in Victorville, the only way I can do it is to take a train at roughly four in the morning to Los Angeles and then transfer on a train to go to San Francisco, which is no fun. I'll fly because it's it's kind of crazy, but I like the trains, and wish we wish we had more of them all over, and wish more people would use them. It's a lot better than driving, and it's a lot more pleasant. When I lived in the east, there were any number of times that I knew people who would travel from like Bucks County in Pennsylvania to New York Wall Street people, and they would go two, two and a half hours on the train every day and back again. And they formed discussion groups or other sorts of things. They they made it a part of their regular day, and it was there was nothing to them to do that. Scott Hornstein  04:54 And to them, I say, God bless. I am not in love with commuting, right? Yeah. Michael Hingson  05:00 Well, I understand that. I appreciate that, but they, they did well with it, and so good for them, or, as I would say in Australia, good on them. But you know, well, why don't we start tell us a little bit about you, maybe growing up in the early Scott and all that stuff. Let's start with that, sure. Scott Hornstein  05:21 First one brief aside about Young Frankenstein when I was living in Connecticut, I would go to the theater in Stanford, and for one performance, my tickets were at the will call, so I went up to the ticket booth, gave them my name, and the woman be on the other side of the iron bars keeps throwing her head to the side, wanting me to look over to my left, and I finally look over to my left, and there's Gene Wilder. Oh my gosh. What an enormously tall individual, very gracious, very nice. In any case, yes, Michael Hingson  06:06 with him, did you? Did you talk with Scott Hornstein  06:09 him just for a moment, just for a moment, you know, just Mr. Wilder, how nice to meet you. And he said a couple of nice things. And that was about it. Still, we all went to see the to see the show. Still, it was quite a thrill for me. What show I do not. Oh, that was, oh, no, excuse me. That was the the madness of King Charles, madness of King George. King George. But he was quite mad, and the play is excellent, excellent. Well, anyway, in any case, I grew I was born in Manhattan. I spent the first couple of years of life on the west side. I don't remember much of that. But my parents quickly moved us out to Queens, which at that point was rather undeveloped. You could get a lot more for your money, and we have lived in an apartment building. And around our apartment building was nothing but empty lots. It was just not developed yet. But it was a great place to grow up because the there was so much going on in those years and so much so much music that was going on. The first recollection I have, in light of all the talk about vaccines and healthcare and all of this is I really remember that polio was a real thing there, and I remember kids with the braces on their legs. And I remember that when one of my friends got chicken pox, that the mothers would get us all together and have a play date so that we got chicken pox too. Okay, but it was, Michael Hingson  08:20 I'm sorry, remember, I remember getting the polio vaccinations, even starting in kindergarten, Scott Hornstein  08:24 yes, yes. And it was such a remarkable thing at that time. We all thought it was like a miracle. And, and Jonas Salk, I mean, he was like, such a hero, yeah. The other thing, so I, we were out in Queens, in an area that's the larger area is called Forest Hills, and it was, it was a great place, because the the whole museum, whole music scene was just exploding. So I'm moving on until my junior high school and high school years, and it was just all over the place. Yes, we were playing in bands, but also there were these wonderful venues to go to. And there was the subway. If my parents only knew where I really was, we would get on the subway, go down in the village, go to all the cafe bar Gertie spoke city, all these places to hear the this wonderful mind changing music. And by mind changing, I don't mean drugs. I mean mind changing that it was, it was just everything in life. Michael Hingson  09:57 And there's nothing like hearing a lot. Music, Scott Hornstein  10:01 even to this day, it's my very, very favorite thing to do. Yeah, and so many musicians and artists came out of that area. I not being one of them. But it was so exciting. Michael Hingson  10:27 I remember when we lived in New Jersey, and I would commute into New York. I heard, for example, even then, and it was in like 96 to beginning of 2002 Woody Allen on Monday night would play his clarinet somewhere. And less, less, Paul was still doing music and playing music at the meridian ballroom. And you can even take your guitar in and he would sign it for you Scott Hornstein  10:55 the it was Joe's Pub. Woody Allen would right. And I went there a couple of times to see him. Of course, it was so pricey that we had to kind of sneak in have one beer, yeah, Michael Hingson  11:16 but still, it was worth doing. Scott Hornstein  11:19 And then they Yeah, and they were great clubs. I think that was, there's certainly the blue note for jazz that I went to a lot. And then there in Times Square, there was iridium, which was where I was able to see Les Paul, right? And many of those greats. Michael Hingson  11:42 Yeah, I never did get to go and get my guitar signed, and now it's too late. But oh, well, do you play? I play at it more than anything else. My father, I think, even before the war, before World War Two, or somewhere around there anyway, he traded something and got a Martin grand concert guitar. Oh, still, I still have it. That's wonderful. What a wonderful sound it is. Scott Hornstein  12:15 What a wonderful story. Yes, I play as well. I And growing up very early on, I decided I wanted to be Ricky Nelson. Oh, there you go. But I quickly learned that I was not going to be Ricky Nelson. However, the guy that was standing behind him playing guitar, now that might be something that I could do. So yes, so I picked it up, and I played in all the bands and then, which quickly taught me that I was not cut out for rock and roll, that I wasn't very good at it, but it led me into many other avenues of music, certainly listening, certainly being part of that scene, I'd go see friends of mine who could play well rock and roll and And that was so exciting for me. And then I, I played in pickup bands through college. So on a weekend night there would be a wedding, Bar Mitzvah, and this guy, I forget his name, piano player, he he got all the gigs and Howie was the first choice for guitar, and if Howie wasn't available, they'd call me. Michael Hingson  13:47 There you go, hey. So second choice is better than no choice. Absolutely. Scott Hornstein  13:54 I i enjoyed it thoroughly and that they paid me money to do this. There you go, right, inconceivable to me. Michael Hingson  14:05 So what did you major in in college? Scott Hornstein  14:10 Well, I started off majoring in biology, and there you go. And why I chose biology is is a mystery to this day, it didn't last long. I cycled through a number of things, and I graduated with a degree in literature, in English, particularly American literature, which is not quite the same as learning a trade. But you know it, it was consistent with with who I was at that time. I was the guy who, if he went out the door, would have two books with him, just in case I finished one. I didn't want to be left at sea, so a voracious reader couldn't stay away from the theater. So it was very consistent with who I was and and it was good for me, because I think through things like like literature and fiction and biography, you learn so much about the world, about how different people are confronted with challenges, how they process their lives, how they overcome these challenges or not or not, it just exposes you to so much. Michael Hingson  15:49 Yeah, and so I'll bet you had some challenges finding some sort of real, permanent job after getting a degree in English? Scott Hornstein  16:03 Yes, I did. But when I got out the idea of it didn't cross my mind that people actually would not earn a great living by being just an artist. What did I want to do? I wanted to write. I wanted to be involved in music. I wanted to act. I did all these things until the point when I got thoroughly fed up with being poor, with not having a dime in my pocket. Ever starving to death is, is sort of what you would call it. Yeah, yeah. You know, I did. I have modest success. Yes, I was able to keep myself off the streets, but no, it was no way for a career. It was no way to even be able to afford your own apartment, for gosh sakes. So I from there i i had done a lot of promotion for the different things that I was involved in, trying to get audiences, trying to get awareness of what I was doing, and that led me to have some contacts inside of CBS. And when I started looking for a job, I started talking to these folks, and they offered me a job. So here I was, and actually gainfully employed. Michael Hingson  17:44 What was the job? Well, I Scott Hornstein  17:47 was sort of a gopher for my first job. Mostly what I did was type, but I do have one good story for you. So I was down in the depths of the CBS Broadcast Center, which is all the way on the west side of 5017 and it's an old milk factory, so which they had converted to broadcast purposes. And so there were long holes, and the halls would always slope down. And there was one day where I was late for a meeting, and I came running down the halls, and there are always these swinging doors, I guess, for in case there's a fire or something, and I'm bursting through the doors, and I go running, and I burst through the next set of doors, and I'm running, and I burst through the next set of doors, and I knock this guy right on his bum. I pick him up, I dust him off. I say, I am so sorry. He says, Don't worry about a thing. It's all fine. I continue running. A friend of mine grabs me and says, Did you see Paul Newman? Michael Hingson  19:10 There you are. Scott Hornstein  19:12 So I have the unique entry on my resume of knocking Paul Newman to the ground. Michael Hingson  19:22 I Well, at least he was civil and nice about it. Scott Hornstein  19:26 He was very nice about it, though. Yeah, so I worked there and then through my writing, because I was writing for a film magazine at night, which, of course, didn't pay a cent, not a cent, but I got to go to all the premiers, and I got to meet all the people and interview all the people so whatever. So through that, I was able to go over to the main building and answer letters for Bill Paley, who was the. Michael Hingson  20:00 Chairman, Chairman, I said, Yes, right, Scott Hornstein  20:02 and it was my job to explain to everybody why Mr. Paley, I never called him, Bill, never, nobody, no, no, why he was right and they were wrong. That was my job, and that I did that for a little while, I can honestly say that I enjoyed having money in my pocket, but that was not the most fulfilling of jobs, and from there, I was able to go over and get my first marketing position, working for the Columbia record and tape Club, which was part of CBS Records at that time. And when I Ben or Dover was the president of Columbia House at that time, and when he made me the offer, he gave me one of the great life lessons that I've I've ever had. And he said, Scott, if you sit in your office and you do exactly what I ask you to do, and you do it on time, and you do it perfectly, we are not going to get along. But if you are out there and you're trying this and you're trying that, and this works, and that doesn't work, but you get up and you keep trying, we're going to be fast friends. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. That's something that has stayed with me my whole life. One of the great pieces of advice that I've ever gotten, Michael Hingson  21:57 well the for me, what's fascinating about it is thinking about how many people would really do that and allow that to happen, but it's really what more people should be doing. I've I've always maintained that the biggest problem with bosses is that they boss people around too much, rather than encouraging them and helping them and using their own talents to help people be more creative. When I hire sales people, the first thing I always told them was, well, the second thing because the first thing I always told them was, you need to understand right up front if you're going to sell here, you have to learn to turn perceived liabilities into assets. And that's got a story behind it. But the second thing that I always talked about was my job isn't to boss you around. I hired you because you convinced me that you're supposed to be able to do the job, and we'll see how that goes. But you should be able to but my job is to work with you to figure out how I can use my talents to help you and to enhance what you do to make you more successful. And the people who got that did really well, because we usually did things differently, and we both learned how to figure out and actually figure out how to work with each other and be very successful. But the people who didn't get it and wouldn't try that, generally, weren't all that successful. Scott Hornstein  23:26 Not terribly surprised, sir. You know, I think that people miss the the humanity of all this. And that if we bring our respective strengths and work together, that it's going to be a more complete and more successful whole than if I try and dominate you and tell you what to do, right, just that hasn't been a successful formula for me. I have never done well with people who tried to tell me exactly what to do, which is probably why I went out on my own. Probably why, in the greater scheme of things that I I did well, working for people from Columbia House. I met this guy on the train, and we got friendly, and he said he worked for an advertising agency, and they were looking for somebody would I be interested in interviewing? And this was with the young and Rubicon. And I did get the job, and I did work my way up to an account supervisor. And then i i said, i. Hate this, and I went back to be a copywriter and worked my way up to be a creative director. But, you know, I went on my own on January 1 of 86 and it was like a liberation for me, because at that point there was a new a new president of the division that I worked for, and he was not a nurturing individual. He was more of the dominant kind of you'll do what I tell you to do. Didn't sit well with me at all, and I had the opportunity to go on my own. So I I packed up my dolls and dishes, and I walked in on January 2, and I said, Bill, I quit. Michael Hingson  26:02 There you go. Was it hard for you to do that? Scott Hornstein  26:11 You know, at that point? So I here I am. I'm a creative director. I got the office on Madison Avenue, and I'm doing freelance all over the place, not only because it was extra money, but because it was it was fueling my creativity. It was giving me something back. It was fun. And I really like to have fun. I have so much fun working with people and that interaction that that humanity, the spark of humanity. So I was doing a lot of freelance, and I wrote this proposal for this one design group who was near where I was living at that time, and it got sold. So they said, Do you want to you want to work on it? And at that point in my life, I didn't have any responsibilities. I had a studio apartment there that was real cheap. And I said, If I don't try this now, yeah, I don't think I'll ever try it. So that's what I did. I quit, and I walked out the door into the great unknown, Michael Hingson  27:39 and the entrepreneurial spirit took over. Scott Hornstein  27:43 It did, and it worked well for about six, seven months, and then we got to the summertime, and I couldn't get arrested for a while. But you know, you have to take it one day at a time. And I figured, all right, well, let's just be open and network and see what's going on. It's not the time to quit. It's not the time to go back and get a job. And I was fortunate in that I was sitting at the desk one day, and this one guy called me, and I had met him before his folks ran one of the biggest, or actually the biggest, telemarketing agency in New York at that time, and I had met, met this fellow, and he said, I got this project. I've been asking around for creative source, and three people gave me your name. So I figured, well, let's go talk. And that turned into a very, very good situation for me, it gave me a lot of responsibility and a lot of leeway to take all the things that I had learned and put them in service of my client and I had a ball. I loved it. The only thing I didn't love was the and I did love this for a while was the constant travel. Now, everybody doesn't travel, and they're all sitting in their rooms at home, looking at screens. But that was that was a great opportunity for me to to spread my wings and to take and I learned so much one of the. Initial assignments I had was for IBM and IBM at that time was, was Mount Olympus. Oh my gosh, working for IBM, and I worked in tandem with this research group. We were all working on the introduction of the IBM ThinkPad and what these folks, they had a methodology they called voice of customer research, which was a qualitative research we're talking to decision makers from a carefully prepared Interview Guide to come up with the attitudes, the insights that we could put together to to come up with a solution. And I was fascinated by this of how to tap into what what the customer really wants by talking to the customer. How unusual. Michael Hingson  31:16 What a concept. Oh yeah. I mean Scott Hornstein  31:19 then and now, it's still the operative phrase of this would be a wonderful business, business, if it wasn't for all those annoying customers and and this just turned that on its head. That's another thing that I learned that has stayed with me through my entire career, is that for the the storytelling, and what I mean by storytelling is, is two things. Is, first, you know all your stories are going to come from what you consider to be your brand, but if you're not developing your brand according to the wants, the needs, the desires, the expressed future state that your Customers want, then then you're wide of the mark. So I was able to bring this in, and I think do a much better job for my customers. Now, the way that relates into storytelling is that you're you're able to take what you do and put it into the story of how your customer succeeds with the hero in the hero's journey, is Michael Hingson  32:55 your customer, your customer? Why do you think that is such a successful tactic to use, Scott Hornstein  33:02 because everybody else is completely enamored of themselves. When other companies craft their their brand, it's mostly because why they think they are special and what their vision tells them is their future. And quite frankly, most customers really don't care when, when a new customer first confronts you and your brand. They ask three questions, who are you? Why should I care? And what's in it for me? And if you can't answer those, if the story that you tell whether complete or in fragments or in in different parts according to where they are on their consideration journey. It doesn't resonate. It doesn't resonate. Hey, I have the best technology out there. I have brilliant people working on this technology. And guess what? Your technology? Somebody will eat your technology in 18 months, and I don't care, I want to know. What does it do for me? Michael Hingson  34:28 Yeah, as opposed to saying, After asking enough questions, I have technology that will solve this problem that you have identified. Let me tell you about it. Is that okay? Exactly? Scott Hornstein  34:44 Yeah, exactly. And as odd as it sounds, that helps you to stand out in the field, in a crowded Michael Hingson  34:55 field, it does, but it's also all about the. Relating to the customer and getting the customer to establish a rapport and relating to you. And when you, as you pointed out, make it about the customer, and you talk in such a way that clearly, you're demonstrating you're interested in the customer and what they want they're going to relate to you. Scott Hornstein  35:24 There's two, two things in there that, well, there's a million things in there that are particularly true. And the first is not only recognizing and and internalizing the goals of your client, but also opening yourself up and saying, these are people. These are humans. And the other real distinguishing fact that a lot of people don't either realize or embrace is that in business to business, and I've spent most of my life in business to business, it's all personal. It's all about personal connections. It's all about trust. And call me crazy, but I am not going to trust a machine. I will have confidence in technology, but my trust is going to be placed in the human through this, one anecdote that that is has really impressed me is that I was doing one of these interviews once, and I was talking to the CEO of of this company. And I said, Well, you know, I of course, I'm working for company A and you've been a client for a long time. What's, what's the greatest benefit that you get from this company? And without hesitation, he said, our salesman. Our salesman is part of our team. He understands who we are, he knows what we need, and he goes and he gets it. So that kind of that, to me, has always been a touchstone on things. Michael Hingson  37:43 Well, the fact that the salesman earned that reputation, and the President was willing to acknowledge it is really important and crucial. Scott Hornstein  37:56 And within that, I would say the very important word that you used is earn. You need to earn that trust. Sure it doesn't come just because you have brilliant technology. It's all people. It's all personal, all people. Michael Hingson  38:20 And that's success, the successful sales people are people who understand and work to earn trust. Scott Hornstein  38:32 Well said, and I think that particularly in this age of accelerating remoteness, that this concept of earning the trust and the person to person becomes a compelling competitive differentiator. And I think that that telling the story of of how you make your customers successful, of the role you play, of where you're going, this allows you to bridge some of those troubled waters to people who are sitting remote. It helps you to open your ears you know where you're going, so you can listen, yeah, Michael Hingson  39:40 well, and that's an extremely important thing to to keep in mind and to continue to hone, because bottom line is, it's all about, as I said, trust, and it certainly is about earning, and that isn't something you. First, it's something that you understand. Scott Hornstein  40:04 It's a gift that can only be bestowed on your customer. You can want it, but they're the only ones who can give you. Your brand is the meal you prepare. You but your reputation is the review, right? So, yeah, you gotta earn that trust. Michael Hingson  40:32 So how long so you you own your own company? How long has the company been in existence? Scott Hornstein  40:40 I Well, let's see. I went on my own on January 1 in 1986 and I am still without visible means of support. Michael Hingson  40:58 Well, there you go, same company all along, huh? Scott Hornstein  41:03 I Yeah, you know, do different work with different people, sure, but yes, it's still me. Michael Hingson  41:13 It's still, do you actually have a company and a name or anything like that? Scott Hornstein  41:17 I did. I did for a long time. I operated under Hornstein associates, okay, and recently I have dropped that and I just work as myself. I think that I had employees, then I had expandable, retractable resources then, and I'm not so interested in doing that right now. I am interested in working as and I love working as part of a team. Collaboration is my middle name. I might not have put that on my resume, but yeah, and I'm just, I'm really just interested in being me these days. Michael Hingson  42:13 That's fair. There's nothing wrong with that. No, well, in your current role, what do you think is the greatest contribution you've made to your clients, and I'd love an example, a story about that. Scott Hornstein  42:28 I would love to tell you a story. Oh, good. So one of my clients is a manufacturer. And they manufacture of all things, barcode scanners, as you would use in a warehouse and in a warehouse, absolutely everything, including the employees, has a barcode. Theirs is different than the the ones that you would normally see, the ones that like have a pistol grip. These are, these are new. It's new technology. They're ergonomically designed. They sit on the back of your hand. They're lightweight. They have more capabilities. They're faster and more accurate. Well, that sounds like sliced bread. However, they had a big problem in that all the scanners in all the warehouses come from the titans of the universe, the Motorola's, the great big names and these great, you know the old saying of Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. Well, you know, if they need more scanners. Why would they go elsewhere? They just go back and get the same thing. So the the big problem is, is how to penetrate this market? And we did it. I worked with them in a number of ways. The first way was to conduct interviews, qualitative interviews, with the executive team, to come up with their their brand. What did they think? What did they think that was most important? And they said, clearly, the productivity gains, not only is this faster, not only can we prove that this is faster, but the the technology is so advanced that now we can also give you. Information from the shop floor. Well, then we talked to their their partners, who were already selling things into these warehouses. And we talked to a number of companies that were within their ICP, their ideal customer profile, I think that's very important to be prospecting with the folks who can make best use of your products and services. And what we found is that it wasn't just the productivity, it was that we solved other problems as well, and without going heavily into it, we solved the a big safety problem. We made the shop floor more secure and safer for the workers. So we changed the message from Warehouse productivity to the warehouse floor of making each employee safer, able to contribute more and able to have a better satisfaction, and that we were able to roll out into a into great messaging. The initial campaign was solely focused on the workers, and our offer was We challenge you to a scan off our scanners, against yours, your employees, your products, your warehouse. Let's have a head to head competition, because we then knew from these interviews, from working with the partners, that once these employees got the ergonomic the lightweight, ergonomic scanners on their hands, and realized how much faster They were, and how much safer that they were, that they would be our champions. And in fact, that's what, what happened. I can go deeper into the story, but it it became a story. Instead of coming in and just saying, boost your productivity, it's the scanners work for your your overall productivity. It helps you to keep your customers satisfied, your workers, one of the big problems that they're having is maintaining a stable and experienced workforce, this changed the characteristic of the shop floor, and it changed the character, how the employees themselves described their work environment. So we were able to take that and weave a story that went from one end of the warehouse to the other with benefits for everybody in between. So you said, What is the the one you said, the greatest benefit, I would say the contribution that I'm most proud of, it's that it's to recast the brand, the messaging, in the form, in the shape of the customer, of what they need, of helping them to achieve the future state that they want. And I'm sorry for a long winded answer, Michael Hingson  49:10 yes, that's okay. Not a not a problem. So let me what would you say are the two or three major accomplishments or achievements in your career, and what did they teach you? Scott Hornstein  49:26 Well, you know, I think the the achievements in my career, well, the first one I would mention was incorporating that, that voice of customer research, bringing the customer to the planning table, letting the executives, the sales people, the marketers, unite around, how does the customer express their hopes, their dreams, their challenges? I would say the second. Uh, is this idea of taking all of the content of all of the messaging and and unifying it? Some people call it a pillar view. I call it storytelling, of relaying these things so that you are giving your prospects and your customers the information that they need when they need it, at the specific point in their consideration journey, when this is most important, and it might be that a research report for a prospect that talks about some of the challenges in the marketplace and what's being done, it might be as simple for a customer as a as a video on how do you do this? You know, how do you screw in a light bulb? Oh, here it is. Everybody's used to that. The the third thing, and, and this is something, forgive me, for which I am, I am very proud, is that now I take this experience and this expertise, and through the organization called score, I'm able to give this back to people who are are trying to make their way as entrepreneurs Michael Hingson  51:35 through the Small Business Administration. And score, yes, Scott Hornstein  51:40 very proud of that. I get so much for from that. Michael Hingson  51:46 Well, what would you say are maybe the two or three major achievements for you in life, and what did you learn? Or what did they teach you? Or are they the same Scott Hornstein  51:57 I did? Well, I would say they're they're the same, and yet they're a little bit different. The first one is, is that it's only very few people who lead the charmed life where they are never knocked down. I'm not one of those people, and I've been knocked down several times, both professionally and personally, and to get back up, I to have that, and you will forgive me if I borrow a phrase that indomitable spirit that says, no, sorry, I'm getting back up again. And I can do this. And it may not be comfortable and it may not be easy, but I can do this. So there was that I think that having kids and then grandkids has taught me an awful lot about about interpersonal relationships, about the fact that there isn't anything more important than family, not by a long shot, and from these different things. I mean, certainly, as you I was, I didn't have the same experience, but 911 affected me deeply, deeply and and then it quite frankly, there was 2008 when I saw my my business and my finances sort of twirl up into the sky like like the Wizard of Oz, like that house in the beginning, Michael Hingson  54:09 but still, Scott Hornstein  54:16 And I persevere, yeah. So I think that that perseverance, that that focus on on family, on humanity. And I would say there's one other thing in there, is that. And this is a hard one. Observation is that I can't do anything about yesterday, and tomorrow is beyond my reach, so I I have to take Michael Hingson  54:56 today, but you can certainly use yesterday. As a learning experience, Scott Hornstein  55:01 I am the sum of all my parts, absolutely, but my focus isn't today, and using everything that I've learned certainly. You know, I got tongue tied there for just a minute. Michael Hingson  55:19 I hear you, though, when did you get married? Scott Hornstein  55:25 I got married in 87 I I met my wife commuting on the train to New York. Michael Hingson  55:35 So you had actually made the decision to could to quit and so on, before you met and married her. Scott Hornstein  55:43 No, no, I was, I was I met her while I still had a job in advertising. That's why I was commuting to New York. And you know, in the morning there was a bunch of us. We'd hold seats for each other and just camaraderie, yeah, you know, have our coffee. Did she? Did she work? She did she did she was she joined the group because she knew she had just gotten a job in New York. And of course, for those who don't know New York? When I say New York, I mean Manhattan, the city. Nobody thinks of any of the boroughs Michael Hingson  56:27 as part of New York. Scott Hornstein  56:31 And yeah, I and one day gone in, she fell asleep on my shoulder, and the rest is history. There you go. Michael Hingson  56:41 What So, what did she think when you quit and went completely out on your own? Scott Hornstein  56:48 I you know, I never specifically asked her, but I would think that she would have thought that maybe I was not as solid, maybe not as much marriage material, maybe a little bit of a risk taker. I did not see it as as taking a risk, though, at that time, but it was actually great for us, just great for us. And yeah, met there, and then I quit. Shortly thereafter, she was still commuting. And then things started to just take off, yeah, yeah, both for my career and for the relationship, yeah. Michael Hingson  57:51 And again, the rest of course, as they say, is history. Scott Hornstein  57:56 It is. And here I am now in Reston, Virginia, and we moved to Reston because both daughters are in close proximity, and my two grandchildren. And you know, am I still confronted with the knock downs and the and the get up again. Yeah, the marketplace is very crazy today. The big companies are doing great, the mid size companies, which is my Market, and it's by choice, because I like dealing with senior management. I like dealing with the people who make the decisions, who if we decide something's going to happen, it happens and and you can see the impact on the culture, on on the finances, on the customer base. These guys are it's tough out there right now. Let me say that it's it's tough to know which way to go. This doesn't seem to be anything that's sure at the moment. Michael Hingson  59:11 Yeah, it's definitely a challenging world and and then the government isn't necessarily helping that a lot either. But again, resilience is an important thing, and the fact is that we all need to learn that we can survive and surmount whatever comes along. Scott Hornstein  59:33 And let me just throw in AI that is a big disruptor at the moment that nobody actually knows Michael Hingson  59:43 what to do with it. I think people have various ideas there. There are a lot of different people with a lot of different ideas. And AI can be a very powerful tool to help but it is a tool. It is not an end all. Um. Yeah, and well said, I think that, you know, even I, when I first heard about AI, I heard people complaining about how students were writing their papers using AI, and you couldn't tell and almost immediately I realized, and thought, so what the trick is, what are you going to do about it. And what I've what I've said many times to teachers, is let students use AI if that's what they're going to use to write their papers, and then they turn them in. And what you do is you take one period, and you call each student up and you say, All right, I've read your paper. I have it here. I want you now to defend your paper, and you have one minute, you're going to find out very quickly who really knows what they're talking about. Scott Hornstein  1:00:47 That, in fact, is brilliant. Michael Hingson  1:00:49 I think it's a very I think it's a very powerful tool. I use AI in writing, but I use it in that. I will use it, I will I will ask it questions and get ideas, and I'll ask other questions and get other ideas, and then I will put them together, however, because I know that I can write better than AI can write, and maybe the time will come when it'll mimic me pretty well, but still, I can write better than AI can write, but AI's got a lot more resources to come up with ideas. Scott Hornstein  1:01:21 It does. It does. And with that, it's a fantastic tool. The differentiator, as I see it, for most of my stuff, is that AI has read about all this stuff, but I've lived it, so I'm going to trust me at the end, Michael Hingson  1:01:45 and when I talk about surviving the World Trade Center and teaching people what I learned that helped me in the World Trade Center, I point out most people, if there's an emergency, read signs and they're told go this way to escape or to get out or do this or do that, but there's still signs, and they don't know anything. I don't read signs, needless to say, and what I did was spent a fair amount of time truly learning all I could about the World Trade Center where things were, what the emergency evacuation procedures were what would happen in an emergency and so on. And so for me, it was knowledge and not just relying on a sign. And so when September 11 happened, a mindset kicked in, and we talked about that in my my latest book, live like a guide dog. But that's what it's about, is it's all about knowledge and truly having that information, and that's what you can trust. Scott Hornstein  1:02:48 I'll give you a big amen on that one. Michael Hingson  1:02:52 Well, this has been a lot of fun to do. We've been Can you believe we've been doing this an hour? My gosh, time, I know having fun. Scott Hornstein  1:03:03 It's fun. And I would say again, in closing, I just have enormous respect for what you've accomplished, what you've done. This is been a great privilege for me. I thank you very much. Michael Hingson  1:03:19 Well, it's been an honor for me, and I really value all the comments, the advice, the thoughts that you've shared, and hopefully people will take them to heart. And I would say to all of you out there, if you'd like to reach out to Scott, how do they do that? Well, there you go. See, just, just type, well, right? Scott Hornstein  1:03:42 That's it. If you, if you sent an email to Scott dot Hornstein at Gmail, you'll get me. Michael Hingson  1:03:56 And Hornstein is spelled Scott Hornstein  1:03:58 H, O, R, N, S, T, E, I, Michael Hingson  1:04:03 N, and again, it's scott.hornstein@gmail.com Scott Hornstein  1:04:09 that's that's the deal. There you go. Well, find me on LinkedIn. You can find me on medium. I'm all over the place. Michael Hingson  1:04:18 There you are. Well, I hope people will reach out, because I think you will enhance anything that they're doing, and certainly trust is a big part of it, and you earn it, which is great. So thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening and watching us wherever you are. Please give us a five star review and a rating and but definitely give us a review as well. We appreciate that. If you know anyone else who ought to be a guest, Scott, you as well. We're always looking for more people to have on, so please introduce us and Scott. If you want to come on again, we can talk about that too. That'd be kind of fun. But I want to thank what I want to thank you again for being here. This has been fun, and I appreciate you being here with us today and and so thank you very much for doing it. Scott Hornstein  1:05:07 My all the pleasure is all mine. Michael Hingson  1:05:14 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

This week, join Peter and Chris as they deep dive into the third track off of RiddleBox, the almighty third jokers card from ICP , "The Show Must Go On" Sit back and listen as they dissect the lyrics and content of the track, discuss Shaggy 2Dope's tight Wranglers, talk about the best tacos in Mexicantown, and tackle important topics like what the rednecks are watching when Mr Red Neck Fat Balls is pranking them!      The LinkTree is at https://linktr.ee/juggalorwd... Twitter/X: @JuggaloRWD IG: @JuggaloRWD Facebook: @JuggaloRWD TikTok: @JuggaloRWD Threads: @JuggaloRWD BlueSky: @JuggaloRWD The website is www.JuggaloRewind.com. Join us everywhere to talk to other listeners and about ICP, Twiztid and random juggalo nonsense. Email us at juggalorwd@gmail.com or call/text us at (810) 666-1570.        Join our Patreon! For only FOUR DOLLARS a month, you can join Kilnore's Army and get at least two bonus episodes per month, videos, chats and more! Even without paying, you can join the Patreon community! Become an official member of the Phat or Wack Pack today! -- Juggalo Rewind Patreon. Additional music provided by the IRTD. Voiceover work provided by Christmas. All music played is owned by the respective publishers and copywrite holders and is reproduced for review purposes only under fair use. #ForTheJuggaloCulture

We help B2B brands launch shows that turn their point of view into pipeline. If you're launching a podcast (or have one already) and are not sure how it can hit your bottom line, book a meeting with Jason: https://meetings-eu1.hubspot.com/jason-bradwell/youtube-meeting-link They hit the top 10 in their category. They landed Fortune 500 CEOs. They racked up downloads month after month. And they closed precisely zero deals. In this solo episode, Jason Bradwell unpacks one of the most common and costly mistakes in B2B podcasting: building a show for your ego instead of your pipeline. If your guest list reads like a networking wish list, this episode is for you. Most B2B podcasters start in the same place: chasing the biggest, most recognisable names in their industry. The logic feels sound. Credibility by association. Impressive LinkedIn posts. A logo wall of guests. But those guests are rarely in your ICP; their audiences are not your audience, and the conversations you have with them rarely address the specific, real-world problems your prospects are wrestling with right now. Jason walks through the practical alternative: the editorial-led approach. Instead of starting with the guest, you start with the question. What keeps your prospects up at night? What objections come up on every sales call? What decisions are they struggling to make? Those questions become your episode topics, and the guests you find to answer them do not need to be famous. They need to be credible, relevant, and close enough to the work that your prospects genuinely recognise themselves. He also outlines a five-step framework for building an editorial roadmap rooted in sales intelligence and explains the only metrics that actually matter when measuring a podcast's commercial impact. Key Takeaways ◼️ How to audit your sales calls to build a content-driven editorial roadmap ◼️ Why booking recognisable guests optimises for vanity metrics rather than pipeline ◼️ How to structure an episode around a prospect's problem instead of a guest's agenda ◼️ Why the best podcast guests are often practitioners and customers rather than celebrities ◼️ How to give your sales team content they can actually use to move deals forward ◼️ Why download counts are the wrong success metric and what to track instead Chapter Markers 00:00 Intro 00:45 The top 10 podcast that closed zero deals 01:30 Why chasing big-name guests hurts your pipeline 02:45 Start with the question, not the guest 03:30 Ego approach vs. editorial approach: a direct comparison 05:00 When big-name guests do make sense 05:30 Five steps to build an editorial-led podcast strategy 06:45 The only metrics worth measuring What's Next If this episode made you rethink your guest strategy, the next step is simple: pull up your last five sales calls and write down the questions that came up most. That is your editorial roadmap. Share this episode with anyone on your team who is involved in your podcast or content strategy. Useful Links Connect with Jason Bradwell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonbradwell/Listen to Pipe Dream on Podbean: https://www.podbean.com/podcast-detail/bac4p-2a0121/Pipe-Dream-PodcastLearn more about B2B Better: https://www.b2b-better.com

This week we take a look at WCW Powerslam from Toybiz! Toybiz didn't exactly win a lot of people over with their WCW line, but some of them were ok. We also talk MOTU Origins, MOTU Chronicles, WWE Street Fighter, Secondary EBay Prices, KWK Release calendar, ICP retros from Figure Collections, Mat Maniacs, GI Joe and more!Also check out The TB Toycast YouTube Channelhttps://youtube.com/@tbtoycast?si=FScEjk2PCFL1acWiAlso check out The Saturday Morning Rumble Wheelhttps://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-saturday-morning-rumble-wheel/id1654659843

Chatbot morreu. Bem-vindo, WorkAI | #podcast #empreendedorismo #podcastbrasilNeste episódio do Empreenda Cast, Gustavo recebe Eduardo Barros, CEO e fundador da Work AI, para uma conversa direta sobre a evolução da IA no mercado de saúde — e por que, na prática, o chatbot tradicional está ficando para trás. O papo começa com uma provocação ótima: em vez de “robô de atendimento”, estamos falando de funcionários digitais que entendem contexto, executam tarefas e se integram aos sistemas da operação.

In this episode, we're joined by Adam Dorrell, CEO & Co-Founder of CustomerGaige, for a candid conversation about one of the hardest founder transitions: when, and how, to step out of the sales seat without losing the magic that makes founder-led selling so effective. Adam shares the real story behind building CustomerGaige over 16 years, growing it into a recognized international player with a lean global team. We dig into: Why founders often try to hire a sales leader too early, and what confidence has to do with it The painful lessons of cycling through sales leaders who took over the process too aggressively, and what it cost The unsexy truth: you can't scale sales before you've truly nailed ICP + story + value prop How Adam and his co-founder ultimately found the right model: Where a Co-founder adds the most value to the salesprocess at this phase of the business If you're a founder trying to scale sales, or a sales leader working with founders, this is a practical and honest take on where founders should stay involved, and where they absolutely shouldn't.

S6:E23 Scaling a business doesn't reduce pressure. It refines it. Queue Up Episode This week on Small Business Stories, Dr. LL sits down with Borja Cuan, co-founder of 415 Digital, to explore what truly changes when companies move from startup to scale. If people don't trust you, they won't follow you. If your expectations drift faster than your clarity, growth fractures. Borja shares what eight years of agency growth has taught him about client pushback, AI disruption, mindset discipline, and the emotional endurance required to scale.

AI search is changing how buyers discover products. But most founders are either ignoring it, or getting sold misinformation.In this episode, Jon Mest (https://chatrank.ai/ and https://justreachout.io/) breaks down what actually drives “AI visibility” and how he's building two bootstrapped companies in a market that's shifting weekly.We get into the real execution behind:Why “pump out 1,000 blog posts” is bad strategy in AI searchWhat AI models struggle with (and the on-page fixes that matter right now)The off-page signals that influence AI recommendations (reviews, Reddit, YouTube, real human sentiment)How Jon sells a $500/mo product without spray-and-pray outboundPartnerships vs affiliates, what worked and what completely failed (PartnerStack experiment)Why podcasts are underrated for both backlinks and AI citationsJon's “rotate AI tools weekly” habit to stay sharp across modelsWhy bootstrapping beats VC for most SaaS right now (and when he'd reconsider)If you're a SaaS founder trying to understand what's real in AI search, this one will save you time and mistakes.

S6:E23 Scaling a business doesn't reduce pressure. It refines it. Queue Up Episode This week on Small Business Stories, Dr. LL sits down with Borja Cuan, co-founder of 415 Digital, to explore what truly changes when companies move from startup to scale. If people don't trust you, they won't follow you. If your expectations drift faster than your clarity, growth fractures. Borja shares what eight years of agency growth has taught him about client pushback, AI disruption, mindset discipline, and the emotional endurance required to scale.

Michael Ray Bower: Some listeners reached out to Donkeylips himself to record a cameo for your boys at Jim and Them. Donkeylips likes what we do but also thinks we are lowlifes because he likes Corey?Michael Jordan: Why is Michael Jordan rubbing that little kid's butt at the Daytona 500? Also more and more sober people are being arrested for DUI.Doordash Delivery Chaos: A food delivery driver is busted putting his shoes on peoples' food. A lady foolishly says she didn't get her delivery at her job and Jim has tales of being Chaotic Good while delivering food. Also some TikTok classics like Daredevil Deb, bad Improv Group and RozTHE BEAR!, FUCK YOU WATCH THIS!, MICHAEL JACKSON!, BILLIE JEAN!, DONKEY LIPS!, SALUTE YOUR SHORTS!, MICHAEL RAY BOWER!, DABBLEVERSE!, CHARACTER!, THE BOY BLUE!, ICP!, BIGGEST FANS!, E-BEGGING!, CAMEO!, POGATS!, SCHIZ NASTY!, KRUSTY THE CLOWN ERA!, SALUTE THE SHORTS!, BUDNICK!, UG!, DONKEYLIPS!, NICKELODEON!, CAMEO!, GET A JOB!, FENCE SITTER!, PICK A SIDE!, MICHAEL JORDAN!, DAYTONA 500!, LITTLE KID!, BUTT!, FUCK ICE!, RUB DOWN!, MEMORY HOLE!, WET!, EPSTEIN FILES!, DRACULA!, WOLFMAN!, MONSTERS!, YN!, ARRESTED!, DUI!, SOBER!, SOBRIETY TEST!, JEFF BIT!, ARRESTED!, ASPERGER'S!, AUTISTIC!, SOBERING PROBLEM!, FAILED!, BREATHALYZER!, BLOOD TEST!, ADD!, MEDICATION!, DOORDASH DRIVER!, MONSTER DELIVERY PERSON!, PUT DOWN!, SHOES!, FOOD!, BUSTED!, JOB!, WORK!, DIDN'T GET FOOD!, BUSTED!, CONFRONTED!, PASSIVE AGRESSIVE!, ICE COLD!, AC!, WATER DOWN MOUNTAIN DEW!, BLACK LADY BONNET!, DAREDEVIL DEB!, FALLING!, COMEDY CLUB!, STUNTS!, IMPROV!, VIRAL!, BAD!, REALLY BAD!, CRINGE!, ROZ!, WEIRDOS!, NEIGHBORS!, DRUGS!, LONELY!, BALLOONS!, ALEVE! You can find the videos from this episode at our Discord RIGHT HERE!

In this episode, Duane Mancini sits down with Sarah to unpack her path from healthcare operator to investor and what founders should know when raising capital today. Sarah shares how her experience as the 10th employee at a digital health startup shaped her empathy for founders and the practical lens she brings to diligence, from ICP and pricing to building durable foundations early. The conversation pulls back the curtain on venture mechanics—how syndication and relationships really work, why fundraising is difficult when LPs demand DPI, and how fund structure, lifecycle, and co-investments can shape outcomes for startups. Sarah also explains Angelini Ventures' global strategy and thesis-driven focus in areas like cardiology and neurology, and why “exitability” requires forward-looking insight into strategic buyers, technology shifts, and long-term fit.Sarah Fox LinkedInAngelini Ventures WebsiteDuane Mancini LinkedInProject Medtech WebsiteProject Medtech LinkedInThank you to our sponsors: Ward Law and JumpStart Inc.

Reach Out Via Text!As spring kicks off and call volume starts ramping up, Jeremiah breaks down exactly how he's structuring call intake, time management, and estimate workflows inside Growing Green Landscapes. He shares the simple systems he's using — from LMN Crew and Google Calendar to Calendly — to eliminate chaos, reduce stress, and protect the company's reputation as it scales. The conversation moves into real-world lessons about AI receptionists, sales-to-operations handoffs, and why documentation during estimates matters more than ever. Jeremiah also opens up about pruning unprofitable clients, dialing in ICP, and positioning the business for smarter growth in 2025. If you're heading into spring feeling overwhelmed already, this one will ground you and give you a practical framework.OPS Event-https://www.eventbrite.com/e/1980729312694?aff=oddtdtcreatorSupport the show 10% off LMN Software- https://lmncompany.partnerlinks.io/growinggreenpodcast Signup for our Newsletter- https://mailchi.mp/942ae158aff5/newsletter-signup Book A Consult Call-https://stan.store/GrowingGreenPodcast Lawntrepreneur Academy-https://www.lawntrepreneuracademy.com/ The Landscaping Bookkeeper-https://thelandscapingbookkeeper.com/ Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/growinggreenlandscapes/ Email-ggreenlandscapes@gmail.com Growing Green Website- https://www.growinggreenlandscapes.com/

How do you grow faster while creating fewer opportunities? Alex Kusters explains how Impact Networking redefined its ICP, built a formulaic targeting model, and embraced signal-based selling to drive 114% growth in net-new logos. A masterclass in modern RevOps, mid-market positioning, and building systems people actually want to use.

This week, join Peter and Chris as they deep dive into the second track off of RiddleBox, the almighty third jokers card from ICP , "Riddle Box." Sit back and listen as they dissect the lyrics and content of the track, discuss the Insane Clown Posse's carnivl mythology, talk about the full bodies of the Joker Cards , and tackle important topics like JCW going to war with other local feds!      The LinkTree is at https://linktr.ee/juggalorwd... Twitter/X: @JuggaloRWD IG: @JuggaloRWD Facebook: @JuggaloRWD TikTok: @JuggaloRWD Threads: @JuggaloRWD BlueSky: @JuggaloRWD The website is www.JuggaloRewind.com. Join us everywhere to talk to other listeners and about ICP, Twiztid and random juggalo nonsense. Email us at juggalorwd@gmail.com or call/text us at (810) 666-1570.        Join our Patreon! For only FOUR DOLLARS a month, you can join Kilnore's Army and get at least two bonus episodes per month, videos, chats and more! Even without paying, you can join the Patreon community! Become an official member of the Phat or Wack Pack today! -- Juggalo Rewind Patreon. Additional music provided by the IRTD. Voiceover work provided by Christmas. All music played is owned by the respective publishers and copywrite holders and is reproduced for review purposes only under fair use. #ForTheJuggaloCulture

How to Fix Your Underperforming B2B SaaS Funnel for Quick Revenue Wins In the fast-paced world of B2B SaaS, the ability to go to market, iterate on feedback, and close deals rapidly is the ultimate competitive advantage. Unfortunately, many sales and marketing teams find themselves stalled by underperforming funnels that drain resources without delivering measurable results. When growth plateaus, the challenge lies in transforming these stagnant pipelines into high-velocity growth engines without requiring massive capital or long timelines. So, how can B2B SaaS teams identify the hidden leaks in their customer journey and unlock quick-win revenue through a strategic, data-driven approach? That's why we're talking to April Syed (CEO of Aperture Codex), who shares her expertise on fixing an underperforming B2B SaaS funnel for quick revenue wins. During our conversation, April discussed the importance of leveraging data to pinpoint “quick wins,” such as streamlining sales processes and eliminating high-friction points in user onboarding. She explained how to fix “conversion killers” like messaging misalignment and highlighted the necessity of aligning marketing and sales efforts to ensure a seamless experience. April also advocated for a culture of continuous testing, using small, incremental experiments to de-risk major strategic shifts. She emphasized the value of regular customer journey mapping to maintain a predictable, sustainable, and highly efficient path to profitable growth. https://youtu.be/VeeFMznhCfw Topics discussed in episode: [07:24] Why your Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) must be a “living, breathing” document reviewed quarterly, not a static file sitting in a deck. [11:24] The critical mistake of treating marketing as a cost center rather than a revenue driver, and how it leads to “vanity metrics” over actual sales. [13:53] Why you should focus on small, incremental tests to “de-risk” big spends before committing to expensive strategies like rebrands. [18:05] The 5-Point Conversion Diagnostic: A framework to analyze time-to-value, messaging alignment, behavioral triggers, follow-up timing, and pricing friction. [23:07] A real-world example of how “pricing friction” (forcing an annual upgrade) caused a loyal promoter to churn to a competitor. [27:24] How to audit your funnel for “Quick Win” revenue opportunities in under 30 days by analyzing where deals stall in the CRM. [35:27] Why no marketing asset is ever “final”, and why high-traffic landing pages should be in a state of constant A/B testing. Companies and links mentioned: Apryl Syed on LinkedIn  Aperture Codex  Superhuman Notion  Motion Transcript Christian Klepp, Apryl Syed Apryl Syed  00:00 Brand for instance, doesn’t work itself into any metric, but it makes every metric better across the board. Sometimes we’re chasing these metrics and like the attribution of where a particular deal came from, or how did they find out about us, and we’re not thinking about all of the things that are outside in the flywheel that are, you know, causing that person to, yes, eventually convert. But were there seven or eight other things that kind of they interacted with. Christian Klepp  00:26 In the world of B2B SaaS speed is the name of the game. Get to market, quickly collect feedback, quickly iterate quickly and close deals quickly. But what happens if your sales and marketing teams get stuck with underperforming funnels that don’t generate the results you need? How can teams turn these funnels into growth machines without massive spend or long timelines? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today, I’ll be talking with Apryl Syed, who will be answering this question. She’s the CEO of ApertureCodex who gives founders the strategy and the psychology needed to jump into fast revenue gains. Let’s dive in. Okay, and away we go. Apryl Syed, welcome to the show. Apryl Syed  01:12 Thank you so much, Christian. I’m so excited to be here. Christian Klepp  01:15 Glad to have you on the show. I think we had such a great pre interview conversation. I kept telling myself I should have hit record, and I talked to you the first time, right? But, you know, two times is a charm or three times. But anyways, this is the second time we’re talking. So I’m really looking forward to this conversation Apryl, because we’re going to touch on a topic today that I think is not just relevant to sales teams. It’s really important to marketing teams as well. So I’m going to keep the audience in suspense just a little while longer while I set up this first question. Right? So you’re on a mission to help B2B SaaS teams turn underperforming funnels into growth machines without massive spend or lengthy timelines, and for people that didn’t hear that the first time, I think everybody wants something like that, right, quick results without spending massively, right? So for this conversation, I’d like to focus on the following topic and just unpack it from there, right? So how can SaaS teams leverage a quick win revenue approach for better and more predictable growth. And I mean, come on Apryl, who the heck doesn’t want that, right? Who doesn’t want predictable growth, right? So I want to kick off this conversation with two questions, and I’m happy to repeat them. So first one is, where do you see many SaaS teams struggle with revenue growth? And the second question is, what are some of the key causes of this? Apryl Syed  02:44 It’s really great, by the way. As a side note, I got turned down for a podcast this week because they said I talked too much about quick wins, and they felt that it conflicted with their policy. I won’t mention the name, they’re an agency out there, but they were all about big spend, and they felt that I conflicted with that. And this exactly ties in. This is probably why the subject that I talk about so. Christian Klepp  03:13 Well, I’m sorry for them. Apryl Syed  03:15 Yeah, that’s okay. That’s okay. We don’t, we don’t match. You know, I’m not for everyone. Well, I think that, like SaaS teams don’t realize that they’ve got data. And within their data really, really lies some of the tweaks, opportunities and things like that that can make them extra revenue that they might not be looking at today. And I think, you know, perhaps it’s in tweaking their sales process. Maybe they don’t have a sales process misalignment between sales and marketing. Marketing is talking about one thing, sales is selling another thing, or could be marketing is marketing to one type of industry and user, and sales is saying that’s not the right user. It’s something completely different, that misalignment in itself causes revenue conflict, revenue opportunities. And you know, sometimes it’s spending on expensive tools before you’ve actually broken down some of those points in the funnel. Or could be tools that you’re getting a lot of data from, or they’re not doing anything with the data on a regular basis. So I think, you know, those are where I see some of those, like, struggle with revenue because of some of those issues and and then I think your second question was kind of like, well, how to, how do they kind of avoid some of those scenarios? Right? Christian Klepp  04:40 It was more about the the key causes, but you but, but you did talk about that already, right?   Apryl Syed  04:44 So, right, right? That definitely is there. Well, I think, you know, it’s also could be, you know, where they’re chasing certain metrics and focused in, and we had this conversation earlier. It’s like brand, for instance, doesn’t work at. Yourself into any metric, but it makes every metric better across the board. So sometimes we’re chasing these metrics and like the attribution of where a particular deal came from, or how did they find out about us, and we’re not thinking about all of the things that are outside in the flywheel that are, you know, causing that person to, yes, eventually convert. But were there seven or eight other things that kind of they interacted with before they got to that point? And we had to get them ready? So, you know, can definitely be about just chasing those metrics too much, which means you avoid doing things that don’t give you that instant metric. And I think that is a big challenge and pitfall that that teams can can certainly fall into. I think also the the challenge of treating marketing as a cost center and not letting them be in charge of all of those metrics down to the sale that happen. And that might sound weird to some folks, but I’ve certainly been in enough teams and enough experiences across you know my background that I’ve seen that sometimes you can make a change in marketing. It produces a lot of leads, but those leads aren’t qualifying and they’re not turning into revenue, and yet, if the metric is producing leads, well then marketing can walk away the end of the day and meet their metrics and jobs, but if the metric is revenue, then they’ve got to go all the way to that end cycle and see that it’s a qualified opportunity. That, of course, goes back to my original point that if sales and marketing aren’t in lock sync with each other, and they don’t have a good relationship and dynamic, then it ends up in finger pointing when things aren’t going wrong, instead of both teams coming together, being on the same page and figuring out what’s going to work. And that’s that’s really the key. Christian Klepp  07:03 Absolutely, absolutely. And I think you might have brought it up, and maybe I didn’t catch it, and if not, I apologize. But like, one of the things that I didn’t notice, too, is, like, this misalignment of who, who the who the ICP (Ideal Customer Profile) is, like the assumptions that both sides have and then somehow they just cannot meet in the middle. Apryl Syed  07:24 Well, I kind of brought it up just slight when I said that marketing might be marketing to one person, and sales is selling to another, but if we just want to double click, you know, on on that, that agreement around the ICP, the reason why it’s so important, and I think it’s hard for some SaaS companies, because there’s, there could be a lot of ICPs. And I kind of have this philosophy that with an ICP, people usually maybe do these personas, as I call them, one time, maybe at a, you know, a planning session or whatever, where they’re kicking off, you know, and kind of like planning who those are, and then they leave them. They sit in a deck somewhere. They’re never looked at again. They’re never revised. I like a more fluid method with personas. I like personas to kind of be active, living and breathing in something that’s reviewed on a quarterly basis, I think is a better cadence. And the reason being is, like, we want to see how many deals we’ve closed in that particular area, how many so we should be looking at the metrics right by persona. We should also look at the messaging by persona to see how that’s working. And we should, you know, look at our team and how that flow has gone through into the sales process by persona. And kind of looking at this lens, we may figure out that one persona is working really, really well, or two or three might be working really well. And maybe there’s two or three that aren’t working really well. We might want to flush those out or put them in, what I would say is like a vault or a holding pattern. They might come back later if something’s happened, and we might want to add different ones. And the reason why quarterly is important is because, if you are selling business to business, for instance, in that business environment, there are different things that might be happening in the world, you know, geographically, politically, that might be impacting a certain persona. And it’s important to also look at that lens on a quarterly basis and say, Okay, what’s the mindset of this particular persona? What are they dealing with? What are some of their issues? What are their pressures? What is their emotional state, and then how do we want to message into that emotional state during this time? How do we want to change and revise our messaging for what’s going on in their world right now, this quarter, right you can’t keep you can’t keep messaging the same and messaging constant needs to be looked at. I would say, on a regular basis, one to check and make sure it’s working. If it’s working, keep it working at some time. At some point, though, it might stop working, and it’s important to catch that as you see those numbers trailing off, as you see that change, and not wait until too long has passed and just double down on the same persona for the sake of really work, working with it, because it was the original plan. Christian Klepp  10:27 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely these, um, these personas are, and I believe that too, they it’s not something that that’s written in stone, and then you, you to use that archaic expression, just keep it on the shelf, and then it collects dust, right? Apryl Syed  10:40 Yeah Christian Klepp  10:41 It’s something that should be monitored, as you said, because certain certain companies are working in industries where, for example, government regulation impacts them. Apryl Syed  10:51 Yes. Christian Klepp  10:52 If government regulation changes, then that perhaps also influences the way they make decisions, or decide to work with external vendors and partners and so forth, right? Apryl Syed  11:05 Absolutely. Christian Klepp  11:07 You brought you brought up a few already in the past couple of minutes. I’m just, I just want to go back to pitfall. So one of them, I think, was chasing this, chasing metrics. Right? This, this habit of constantly chasing metrics. What are some of these other pitfalls that you’d say marketing teams should avoid them. What should they be doing instead? Apryl Syed  11:24 Well, I think, you know, another pitfall that I’ve seen is kind of launching a big rebrand and expecting, you know, or that could also be a plot, a platform overhaul, software overhaul, and expecting that that’s going to move the needle faster when you could test that type of messaging out in really small ways before you go and do that big rebrand. And I’m a big fan of those, like small tests, verify and then go big. Like I’m not I’m not saying don’t ever go big. What I’m saying is like, test and measure before you go into a big cut, a big, fresh rebrand, because it’s expensive, and you want those big, expensive expenditures to be a little bit more of a sure thing than a risky thing. So de risk the big spends, riskier moves. Do small, incremental tests and say, how could we test this out on a small scale. How could we test or rebrand out? How could we test a platform change out before we do that in a small way? So I think that’s another one. I talked about a cost center. Treating marketing as a cost center is another one. So I think those are, like my big, my big three, I would say, in terms of pitfalls. Christian Klepp  12:41 Yeah, fantastic, fantastic. You, you hit on something there with your with your third point. And I want to go to that, because that’s a topic that, um, that as a marketer, personally, it riles me up a little bit, but, like, you know, but, but we have to look at this as professionals too, and say, okay, you know what? In the world of B2B, that type of pushback is almost expected, right? Because I’m not sure what your experience has been. But I also work with a lot of companies that have done either little or no marketing before, so it’s, it’s to a certain extent, it’s like Terra Australis incognita. It’s uncharted territory. They are not sure what to expect. So it’s only, it’s only normal that they, that they view it with some kind of, I wouldn’t go so far as to say, suspicion, but yeah. Like, how do you know it’s gonna work, right? So over to you. Like, what’s your experience been? How do you deal with companies that view marketing with that kind of suspicion or or have these doubts, like, Is this even going to work for us? Right? How do you deal with that? Apryl Syed  13:53 Well, I mean, from my perspective, I think again, I go back to the small tests, small wins in those beginning, like, let’s get our sea legs before we go and launch some big strategy. And I think that’s, you know, a big divide between, you know, maybe myself and yourself and some other you know, marketing agencies and firms out there is, I would rather get small, incremental wins to start. I’m not against big strategies and big spends. I think they’re both needed, but when you’re kind of coming into a team that’s either had little to no success with marketing, because maybe they’ve had some bad experiences with agencies that haven’t delivered, or they’ve tried ads, or they’ve tried this thing and they kind of have that bad taste in their mouth, right? Or they just have not done anything at all, and perhaps they’ve, they’ve grown despite that. So they’re kind of like, Hey, I’ve seen success without doing this. So why? Why do I need this? So I think an educational approach is important, kind of giving the here’s the industry benchmarks, here’s what we should. See, here’s how we are going to test. Here’s a recommended way that we do small, incremental tests. And then I also think a really, really important piece is, if it’s a company that’s been around long enough is to dive into that data I have. I have a customer that I would say sits in this category. They’ve grown tremendously. They’ve had a very successful business, and they’ve never marketed before. And if I were to come in there with some big rebrand strategy, big moves, look at me like you’re crazy. We don’t need that. I mean, in all honesty, what are they looking for? They’re looking for incremental revenue gains. So how am I going to produce incremental revenue gains? I’m going to look at their data and see where there’s holes in gaps today, where, yes, marketing, but marketing is a very, very broad term. Marketing can be brands, marketing could be emails, marketing can be social media. Marketing can be customer advocacy, customer emails churn, you know, upgrading customers into other models. So when I say I look at data, I look at what their customers are doing, and what I get from that is, where is my ideal customer, because it’s going to show me in their base. So who might I want to go after and experiment with? First, those are going to be my biggest areas for opportunity of wins, where, with their existing customer base, can I sell something more or different for them to increase revenue in that way? I think that’s another big and then I look at where there may be failures across the process in their data. If it’s a SaaS company, let’s look at their free the trial, trial, you know, to paid, paid to churn, and look at those numbers and say, are they hitting industry standard for their industry? Can I improve any of these metrics? Let me go look at all of the various different things that are going to change these metrics. Where can I start to experiment to get incremental change? That’s how you give success to a team. And they start feeling like, Okay, we should invest more here. We should do more here, because it’s working. Now, let’s double down. Let’s triple down. Let’s do more, then you can go after those bigger strategies. Christian Klepp  17:26 Yep, yep, no, absolutely, absolutely, no. I’m glad, I’m glad you brought those up, because that’s a great segue into the next question, which I think you’re all too familiar with, right? So I think when we first talked, right in our previous conversation you were talking, you mentioned something called a five point conversion diagnostic, which uncovers, I think you refer to them as conversion killers, right? You can cover these conversion killers without expensive tools or massive product like changes or revamps, right? So if you could please walk us through this five point approach and how teams can leverage that. Apryl Syed  18:05 Now this is particularly for SaaS, that trial to onboarding experience and the time that I the thing that I look for the most in there is time to value. How long does it take for the customer to experience value is going to be indicative of how long their trial has to be with that onboarding experience, and are they legitimately going to get into the point of buying early, even because they can’t wait to utilize this tool or buying, of course, the moment that the trial, the trial the trial ends. That is all about time to value. The second is about messaging alignment. So does the promise that we give, if it’s a landing page, whatever that experience is that someone comes through to then get to that product, does the promise of what we’re giving them match what the experience is going to be in the software, and how long does it take again, from that time to value, for them to get to that matched experience of what we promised that will also be a predictor of so if we were, you know, on a scale from zero to 10, 10 being like matched, it perfectly, zero being not matching at all, we’d want to rate our company on that scale, and kind of see for the time to value and for the misalignment, where are we? Then I would kind of go after like behavioral triggers, and I would try to figure out what actions correlate with conversion. So I would look at everybody that’s converted, and I would say, what parts of the software did they touch right? Are they looking at, are they experiencing, which then would predict, like, if people do these five things and the solution, then we know that they’re going to convert. And you can use either, like a Pender or you know, products like that that give you some of that analysis and data. Or maybe it’s, you know, sitting in your CRM, but that would tell you and inform you about your messaging as well. Like, what should we be messaging about? These are the key things that people want out of this solution, and that’s going to inform your next piece, which is, I would look at the follow up timing, the sequencing. How frequently do we talk? I often, I’m a big superhuman fan, and I talk about superhumans onboarding experience, which I think is awesome. And of course, they get a little bit of a leg up because they are an email solution, so they see when you’re in the tool. But I have found that, like the timely messages and the trickling of features that they give you right when you’re ready to use that feature has been so well thought out. And if you have, if you have not experienced it, and you’re a SaaS product owner, Founder, CEO, I highly encourage you to go through their onboarding experience, because that, to me, is like the pinnacle, or one of the pinnacles of what you should want your users to experience, like these just great aha moments right when they’re ready to receive them as part of that trial period before conversion. That make sure that we’re just touching them at the right moments. And then the last piece that I look at is pricing and packaging friction. And here’s, this is, you know, this is something that’s changing an awful lot right now. SaaS is under pressure to maybe look at not seeds, but maybe it’s volume, but then volume is not great, because people can’t predict it, and certainly can’t budget appropriately for it. So there is all kinds of pricing friction happening right now that needs to be figured out, but understanding where people are dropping off and where in that you know, how many clicks do they need to do before they buy? What is that whole buying process like? What is the upgrading process like? Put it through the pressure test. See how many steps it is. Challenge yourself. If you can reduce the steps, make it easier. I’ll give you an example. I was a big, big user of the motion app for a really long time. I probably sold, let’s say, 10 to 20 of these to other people, because I was such a promoter and such a fan of motion, they changed something in their solution related to how many credits, and what happened is it stopped recording my meetings for me automatically, which meant didn’t go into my notes anymore. Didn’t automatically create my tasks for me. That’s a pretty big feature, and obviously I so I went to upgrade, and the upgrade didn’t allow for me to choose a monthly it only allowed me to upgrade to choose an annual. Christian Klepp  23:06 Why? Apryl Syed  23:07 Yeah, which did what to me as the user. I then went into the shopping mode, essentially, and I said, Now I’m going to go shop and look at, well, what other tools are out there that can do the same functionality. Because now, if I have to commit to an annual plan, so much changing in AI this year, I’m not sure if I can commit to an annual plan. It had nothing to do with the amount of dollar spent. It had everything to do with commitment. And here I was a promoter of their solution. I ended up canceling and I went with notion, because I realized that notion had added a significant number of AI features at a much lower price, which I know a lot of people complain about notion being expensive, and it isn’t as good of a user experience now that I’m using motion and yet notion. Yet, I’m still on notion, and I left motion app, which is probably better, because they put me through this experience. And I say that as an example not to and I don’t know if they fix that, but we make these decisions all the time, sitting from our lens, looking at what we want the outcome to be, and we don’t think through what that user experience is going to be, and we’re killing conversions, in some cases, by these little levers and moves that we make, and sometimes we don’t even realize that. So I really encourage, encourage founders, encourage, you know, everyone at the company go back through and look at these tiny little things that each one of them on the loan alone could be costing you revenue, costing you conversions along the pathway. Christian Klepp  24:53 Absolutely, absolutely. And we’re working with a client that’s that’s an that’s in tech right now, and the thing that we keep. Talking about is you gotta, you know, yes, of course you’re excited if you start developing more features and what have you right? But look at this through the lens of the user, right? I mean, I can totally relate to your to your situation. I mean, even things like for example, and this is probably like oversimplifying it. But the last update that Instagram did is driving me absolutely crazy. Like, why would you update something your interface that has already been working for the users, and now? Why do you update it so and completely change where the buttons are on the layout so people have to waste time looking for worse, the send button. I mean, you know, it’s just beyond me, right? Apryl Syed  25:45 Yeah, and it’s funny, and they actually, Instagram, for a long while, did a lot of user testing before they would roll out features, and did these limited, I didn’t see any of that necessarily. With this last rollout. Christian Klepp  25:58 No. Apryl Syed  25:59 Apple did a very similar, like their latest update introduced many phone changes in terms of prioritization of, you know, messaging and all that sort of stuff. And it’s like a common we’re finding commonality saying, like, Oh man, I hate this latest I don’t know how many people have said I hate this latest update, and it’s because it’s created too much friction in the process. We need enough friction, but not too much friction. And that balance, in itself, unfortunately, is like the most difficult thing to figure out. And if you’re not talking to your customers, if you’re not talking to people, you will never figure it out, because you’ll be making an assumption. Christian Klepp  26:38 Exactly, exactly. Okay, so we talked about this at the beginning of the conversation, but you mentioned something called a quick win revenue framework. And I know from what you were telling me that that was a little bit controversial to somebody else you spoke to. Apryl Syed  26:55 Yeah. Christian Klepp  26:56 But you know what we are, we are all embracing in the show. You know. Apryl Syed  27:00 Thank you. Christian Klepp  27:00 Not not judgmental. But in fact, the focus here is to help B2B Marketers. In your case, B2B SaaS Marketers to become better and to improve. So if we’re going to focus on this quick win revenue framework, where would you identify low hanging revenue opportunities in under 30 days. So talk to us about that. Apryl Syed  27:24 Yes, well, it sits at this crossroads between marketing and sales, right? And that’s why you’ve got to have such a tight friendship relationship with you know, your sales leaders and your customer success leaders. I think it has to be like such a great ecosystem. So first thing I would do is pull CRM data. I would look at where deals are stalling, you know, I would map the current funnel with actual numbers of where you have people. I would overlay that with like the industry and kind of like the marketing messaging that is created those those types of deals. And kind of look at that from the lens of, okay, here’s what we’re creating, and here’s what sales is able to close easily. Here’s what’s really lagging and taking a long time in the funnel. And it’s not to say that, like, longer is better than shorter, because, like, an enterprise deal takes longer to close than a SMB (Small and Medium-sized Business) deal. So the answer isn’t always that the SMB deal is better, but looking at that and saying, Is there anything here that is that is giving me an indicator of something I can improve on? Can improve on. So that would be, you know, number one, go through that audit, take a look at the data, see what you’ve been producing from a marketing standpoint so far, and then say, is there anything that we should be testing to do differently better? You know, what are your hypotheses that you want to go out and you want to prove with some AB testing, two look at conversion killers, right? That’s either messaging, follow up, timing or onboarding friction, some sort of friction in the process. Friction could be a form fill too it could be, you know, too heavy, too long of landing page, I would look at every single detail and way that people are coming in through the funnel and say, are we doing anything to kill conversion and sometimes, and I’ve experienced this with one brand that I’m working with, and we have an agency that’s also in there that’s doing some ad performance, and they’re getting industry well above industry standard rates. And I asked the agency, because I’m sitting in kind of like my fractional executive role, and I said, Tell me out of your entire client, raw. Stair. Where does this client sit? And they said, Oh, at the top, best performing client we have, you know what that signaled to me? They’re comfortable. They’re getting great results. They’re not trying to improve anything. They’re just trying to hold the fort down and just keep getting these great results because they think that’s a place of safety. Christian Klepp  30:23 Stop rocking the boat Apryl. Apryl Syed  30:26 I know, I know, but I look at that and say, You’re not trying hard enough. You’re not examining right and going through the funnel and looking for all the tweaks and looking for. Christian Klepp  30:36 What can it improve? Apryl Syed  30:37 Can it be improved? You’re not trying to do any of that. And in fact, I’m adding that to you. I’m adding those things. I’m asking for those things, just because I come from that space and saying, like, Hey, we should be pushing here. We should be pushing here. We should be they don’t want to push. And they’re slow, slow, slow to react. And what’s going to happen is it’s going to earn them a change out in agency, right? Because they’re not pushing. Now, unfortunately, what I think is, if that was happening, obviously was happening before I was involved this customer, they thought they’re getting, they’re getting, like, six to one on their spend. That’s fantastic. We should be happy, right? And I’m like, no, no, no, I’ve pushed, I have pushed that envelope before. I’ve seen, you know, 14% conversion on landing pages. I’ve seen 49% conversion on landing pages. When you get it really right, you should always be pushing and pushing and pushing that envelope. So really diagnose and look, are there friction killers in those processes, and where can you be improved? And it is not like, I’m getting results good enough, so let me stop. It’s not stop because that might be one of your levers to really, really get quick wins, because you could tweak something and then even tip the scale further. And who doesn’t want a big win like that? The other thing is, like, I think there’s I look at I look at email sequences and messaging. I look at every single message that we’re sending a customer through the process, through their buying journey. You know, for one client, I basically call it a customer journey map, which a lot of people don’t do anymore, but my journey map is from the moment that they hear about you, all the way through buying, how do we touch them? What do we touch? And then from buying through that sales cycle, what is that like? And the reason why I map that out is because when you do and you put the different sections, you can kind of say, well, this is the process today. What would we like that process to be? And you will find in every single one of these customer journey maps that I’ve done, five to 10 areas where you’re like, instantly know, you instantly know the experience you could be providing better. I did this for one client, and we uncovered, like, the review process for their terms and conditions. On average took like, 10 days with an average back and forth between their lawyers and our lawyers, maybe 15 times that is that a desired customer experience? No, that’s a friction creator, which could be a deal killer, could be a deal staller. So what does that desired experience look like? What should we aim to get to? How are we going to do that? What should we test first? That’s just an example of one that might be in there. So look at everything. Then it becomes, you know, build exactly what you think you’re going to test, go and launch and measure those tests. And you don’t need this to be six months, right? Depending on how much data you’re getting through, it might only take you two weeks of data. It might take you a week of data on these experiments and levers that you’re going through so figure out how long you need to run the experiment for. Run that experiment, measure those changes, and then either permanently implement the change or make changes right and refresh and do another test. Christian Klepp  34:24 Wow, that was quite the list. And I’m sure you’ve, you’ve had, like, as you, as you’ve mentioned, you’ve had pushback for, you know, some of this, for this process, because it’s it. It makes teams uncomfortable, right? But I think the point is, you know, everybody says, right, change is uncomfortable. Improvement is uncomfortable. Uncovering ways to make things better should make you feel uncomfortable, right? Apryl Syed  34:53 So true, so true. And I always, I always think like, if you’re uncomfortable and you’re feeling like. A maybe, I don’t know all the answers here. It’s a really good place to be, and that’s where real growth happens. That’s where real change happens. Christian Klepp  35:06 Yeah. So I did have one follow up question for you, Apryl, like, you know, based on this framework that you’ve just proposed, like, How often would you recommend? And I know it depends, but how often would you recommend teams to continuously monitor some of these, some of these attributes and these factors that you’ve that you’ve brought up in the past couple of minutes. Apryl Syed  35:27 Gosh, I think it is very dependent on the data that’s coming through. If you were experiencing problem in an area, deep dive in there and uncover it. Kind of do that audit and analysis and create some tests that you could run to improve it. But as a measure, the customer journey map, for example, for existence, I think that’s a living, breathing document. I think we should look at it quarterly. We should update it with the experiments and the learnings and the new things that we’ve implemented permanently so that we can track how that experience is going and make sure that it’s our desired experience that we’re putting out there. Because I think a lot of times stuff just happens and it’s not our desired experience, but we kind of think like, oh, well, this is the process, the way it has to be, or, you know, so and so said that it has to be three days. So it’s three days, and it’s like giving you a moment to step back and be like, Why could we do it different? Could we do it better? Could we do it in two days? I don’t know. Could we do it in one and, you know, so I think as often as that customer journey, when updates happen, put those updates in their document. It, look at it, say, like, what’s next on the list should always be improving. When you get to the point where you don’t have any more insights in there, and you think it’s oiled up in the best that you could possibly do it, bring some customers in, bring some customers in to look at it and get their opinion. Ask them about it. It’s a great point to now be in survey mode and ask some questions about where you might have conflicts internally, or where you just aren’t sure where to go. So I think that when it comes to like email sequences, and remind you know like those provide provides, messaging, emails, one thing landing pages, like, I think your landing page just should be in a constant AB turnaround. Every time you have five to 10,000 people hitting a landing page, you should be trying to tweak that message to see if you can make it better. Message, layout, colors, all of the kind of industry standards there, you should be constantly trying to tweak that. If you’re not using landing pages and you’re sending stuff to a page, you should try landing pages so it’s just the constant improvement of those email sequences kind of, kind of, I feel, I feel they should be similar. I feel like you’ve got to examine those on a pretty regular basis, maybe it’s monthly, and kind of determine which messages are you going to trade out. I’m doing a pretty big switch out right now for, you know, an SMB app that’s, you know, selling to other businesses. So it’s a B2B, SaaS company, and we are revising all of their messaging, going through every single one, but trying to create, like a very purposeful journey now where there hasn’t been necessarily one before. And what I just said to one of the leaders yesterday is like, this is version one of what will be probably 10 before we’re done with this iteration. Because every single time we see the data and see how people are moving through the flow, we’re going to we’re going to see that those things that we didn’t consider, there’s going to be broken pieces. Like, don’t be in a position of thinking that any of your marketing is final ever. That’s a good position to be in. It’s never final. I think about this for websites as well. Like people like, oh, we go through our big website refresh, we get the website done, and then now we don’t have to touch the website. Oh, you should be, like, touching the website all the time. Experiment with the messaging on the homepage. Like to think that you got the messaging right the first time. I wish, I wish, and I’ve been in this industry for more than 25 years, I wish, and I’m considered, considering, considered a messaging, you know, wizard. Sometimes, it sometimes takes five or six tries before you get that like, nailed one, and that’s because persona, you know, it’s like how the person is feeling. It’s the emotional draw, and it’s the features, the problem of the pain and all of that coming into one like, I wish, I wish there was an AI tool that could get that right. But it’s not, they’re not. Christian Klepp  40:00 I haven’t found one yet. Apryl Syed  40:01 Yeah. You know, it’s only through really, really overworking that message and seeing the data come in that you kind of like, finally get to maybe a place that’s good, and then guess what? Your persona changes or something happens to so. So don’t ever think of it as, oh, to set it and forget it, it. It should be like it. And there’s also, like, Don’t tweak it too fast that you don’t have enough data coming through. Like, that’s also, I can, I can see that being a message, but have enough data, review that data on a regular basis, make some changes, test it. It’s like little incremental tests and learn. So that’s going to be kind of like it’s either in that category, which is like, test and learn, test and learn, test and learn constantly tweaking, or a quarterly or an annual kind of review. Christian Klepp  40:54 Fantastic, fantastic. Apryl. This was such a great conversation. Thank you so much for your time and for sharing your expertise and experience with the listeners. Um, please. Quick introduction to yourself and how folks out there can get in touch with you. Apryl Syed  41:07 Well, my company is Apeture Codex. Best way to get in touch with me is just Apryl Syed at LinkedIn. That’s where I’m most active, is on LinkedIn, and you can book an appointment with me right off of my LinkedIn. And so that’s like the best, best way to find me out there. Christian Klepp  41:27 Fantastic, fantastic. And we’ll be sure to drop those links in the show notes once the episode goes live. So Apryl, once again, thanks so much for your time. Take care, stay safe and talk to you soon. Apryl Syed  41:38 All right. Thank you so much, Christian. Christian Klepp  41:40 Okay, Bye, for now. Apryl Syed  41:41 Bye.

hema.to is building AI-powered diagnostic infrastructure for cytometry—a specialized area of laboratory medicine analyzing immune system data to detect blood cancers like leukemia and lymphoma. Unlike radiology or pathology where AI solutions are abundant, cytometry has remained largely untouched by the AI wave, creating both opportunity and isolation for the Munich-based company. In a recent episode of BUILDERS, we sat down with Karsten Miermans, CEO at hema.to GmbH, to discuss why they're deliberately keeping sales founder-led despite having paying customers, how South America became an unexpected beachhead market, and what it actually means to build infrastructure versus point solutions in healthcare. Topics Discussed:  From consulting project to venture-backed company: recognizing scalability in hindsight  The workflow integration problem killing healthcare AI implementations  Infrastructure versus technology: why healthcare AI isn't just about the algorithm  Learning ideal customer profile after 18 months of being "all over the place"  Why South America's governance structure enables faster adoption than the US  Resisting the urge to hire sales before achieving true repeatability  The 10-year vision: shifting from "watch and wait" to "predict and prevent" in immune disease GTM Lessons For B2B Founders: Pattern matching fails when you're an outsider—budget 18+ months to find your beachhead: Karsten assumed every application of their diagnostic method was the same and spent a year and a half "blue eyed" (naively optimistic) before identifying their true ICP. The outsider advantage lets you reimagine workflows insiders can't, but you'll incorrectly assume transferability across use cases. Don't expect repeatability in year one when entering regulated, workflow-dependent markets. Infrastructure requires multi-stakeholder orchestration—resource for enterprise complexity from day one: Karsten distinguishes technology (point solutions, single users) from infrastructure (shared resources requiring data exchange and workflow integration). In healthcare, this means integration into hospital systems, databases, and electronic health records across multiple stakeholders. "Every sale becomes enterprise sales" even for individual labs because of this infrastructure requirement. Founders building horizontal platforms should model sales cycles and resource requirements as enterprise from the start, regardless of deal size. Your ICP is cognitively overloaded—they won't understand your category innovation: Doctors are "under so much pressure that they just don't have any cognitive capacity left" to philosophically evaluate why AI might be difficult to implement or how infrastructure differs from technology. They need problems solved within their existing mental models. Skip the category education. Frame everything as workflow enhancement, not innovation. Let sophistication emerge through implementation, not pitch decks. Revenue doesn't equal repeatability—know when you're still in discovery mode: Despite having paying customers, Karsten explicitly states "we're not at product-market fit yet" because they're "discovering and learning things with every new laboratory hospital" around data privacy, integration, and AI deployment. The PMF signal isn't customer count or revenue—it's when the process becomes predictable, customers refer others, and you stop discovering new requirements. Hiring sales before this point scales complexity, not revenue. Regulatory friction determines market sequencing, not just market size: US governance complexity turns every deal into heavy enterprise sales with "many stakeholders," while South America proved "much more willing to move with fewer processes," making them "just much faster to adopt innovative technology." This wasn't strategy—Karsten's CTO speaks Spanish through a personal connection. But the lesson transfers: for infrastructure plays in regulated markets, test adoption velocity in lower-governance environments first to build proof points, even if TAM looks smaller on paper. In healthcare, marketing is clinical evidence—customer success creates your GTM flywheel: Karsten spends minimal time on marketing because beyond the first 5-10 users, doctors "want to see clinical evidence, they want to see papers, they want to see maybe that a friend of theirs is using it." Marketing in healthcare isn't content or demand gen—it's peer validation and published proof. Founders should structure early customer engagements to generate this evidence, not just revenue. The "marketing sales flywheel really does kick in much more once you have product market fit" because PMF enables the evidence generation required for credibility. // Sponsors: Front Lines — We help B2B tech companies launch, manage, and grow podcasts that drive demand, awareness, and thought leadership. www.FrontLines.io The Global Talent Co. — We help tech startups find, vet, hire, pay, and retain amazing marketing talent that costs 50-70% less than the US & Europe. www.GlobalTalent.co // Don't Miss: New Podcast Series — How I Hire Senior GTM leaders share the tactical hiring frameworks they use to build winning revenue teams. Hosted by Andy Mowat, who scaled 4 unicorns from $10M to $100M+ ARR and launched Whispered to help executives find their next role. Subscribe here: https://open.spotify.com/show/53yCHlPfLSMFimtv0riPyM

What does it take to build a brand from nothing in nine weeks, with no assets, no brand book, and a board breathing down your neck? Penny Elmslie did exactly that as the first Marketing Director Xero hired outside of New Zealand, turning a company most Australians confused with a certain photocopier brand into one of the world's most recognised accounting software businesses. Penny shares the story behind Xero's early Australian growth: the scrappy "Hello, Xero with an X" campaign, guerrilla activations like Cloudstreet, the partner strategy that turned accountants into an army, and the event machine that scaled from 30 people in a winery to thousands globally. She also opens up about joining Affinda as CMO and why AI document processing today mirrors where the cloud was a decade ago. Guest Introduction Penny Elmslie is a CMO, Board Director, and marketing coach who spent over a decade at Xero, rising from Australia's first Marketing Director to Global Director of Brand and Community. She is currently CMO at Affinda, a Melbourne-based AI document processing company named one of Australia's fastest-growing tech companies by Deloitte. Key Topics Building Xero's brand in nine weeks: Launching a full campaign with no brand book, no assets, and a tiny budget, and why the insight was simply making people spell the name correctly.The accountant-as-channel strategy: How Xero built its go-to-market around accountants and bookkeepers, turning that partner network into the most efficient channel to market.From "Hello" to XeroCon: How brand experience evolved from small intro sessions to national roadshows and a flagship conference now running worldwide.Cloudstreet and guerrilla marketing: The pop-up activation that scaled from a city storefront into a shipping container touring Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane.B2C thinking in a B2B world: Why Penny approaches every B2B campaign as human-to-human, and how that philosophy shaped her work at Xero.Joining Affinda: What drew her to an AI-first scale-up and the brand-building opportunity still ahead.Reactive vs. responsive: Why responding to market opportunity beats forcing a proactive plan early in a CMO role.Content quality in an AI-flooded world: Why human expertise must stay on the levers, and why brands that commit to their ICP and tone will win. Resources & Links People Chris Ridd- Former MD, Xero Australia (2011–2016)Rod Drury- Co-founder, Xero Companies & Tools Affinda- AI document processing platform; Penny's current companyAffinda Group- Parent company of Affinda, Draftable, Pathfindr, and VesparumDraftable- Document comparison software for legal teamsXero- Cloud-based accounting software for small businessesMYOB- Accounting software competitorLeo Burnett Australia- Creative agency Penny briefed on day one at XeroSputnik Agency- Melbourne agency Penny partnered with to launch Xero's first Australian campaign Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Penny Elmslie Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

Reach Out Via Text!In this solo Wednesday episode, Jeremiah pulls back the curtain on a major shift happening inside Growing Green Landscapes' maintenance division. After running deep analytics on man-hours, drive time, and revenue per hour, he shares why some long-time customers are being dropped — and how dialing in the right ICP (ideal client profile) is critical to scaling profitably. Jeremiah also breaks down the dangers of hidden drive time, why $63 revenue per hour isn't scalable, and how they're restructuring maintenance with mandatory enhancements and tighter pricing discipline. Plus, he announces the free April 10th Operations Event and shares an honest update on culture, hiring, and hitting their $1.3M revenue goal in 2026. If you're serious about tightening your operations this spring, this episode is a must-listenSign up for Ops Event here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/1980729312694?aff=oddtdtcreatorLet's build smarter this year. Support the show 10% off LMN Software- https://lmncompany.partnerlinks.io/growinggreenpodcast Signup for our Newsletter- https://mailchi.mp/942ae158aff5/newsletter-signup Book A Consult Call-https://stan.store/GrowingGreenPodcast Lawntrepreneur Academy-https://www.lawntrepreneuracademy.com/ The Landscaping Bookkeeper-https://thelandscapingbookkeeper.com/ Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/growinggreenlandscapes/ Email-ggreenlandscapes@gmail.com Growing Green Website- https://www.growinggreenlandscapes.com/

Databox is an easy-to-use Analytics Platform for growing businesses. We make it easy to centralize and view your entire company's marketing, sales, revenue, and product data in one place, so you always know how you're performing. Learn More About DataboxSubscribe to our newsletter for episode summaries, benchmark data, and moreScaling a company doesn't break because of a lack of ideas, but because instinct doesn't scale.In this episode of Move the Needle, Chris Savage (CEO & Co-Founder of Wistia) walks through the evolution from founder-driven decision-making to building a real operating system for scale.From choosing a single ICP when growth was already strong…- To installing a tri-annual planning cadence- To distributing ownership across teams- To using AI to compress execution cyclesThis is a masterclass in turning momentum into predictable growth. If you're a SaaS founder or GTM leader trying to scale without chaos, this episode is for you.

We help B2B brands launch shows that turn their point of view into pipeline. If you're launching a podcast (or have one already) and are not sure how it can hit your bottom line, book a meeting with Jason: https://meetings-eu1.hubspot.com/jason-bradwell/youtube-meeting-link -- Adam Holmgren turned three years of consistent LinkedIn posting into a $700K ARR SaaS business—without cold outbound, without a sales team, and with 80% of growth coming from organic content amplified by thought leader ads. In this episode of Pipe Dream, Adam Holmgren, co-founder and CEO of Fibbler, breaks down exactly how he built an attribution platform for SMBs by first building an audience of 25,000 marketers. Before launching Fibbler in May 2024, Adam spent years developing his point of view on demand generation, paid advertising, and attribution whilst at GetAccept—publishing consistently, giving value, and never asking for anything in return. When he finally launched his product, his audience was ready. Within two months, he had 50 paying customers purely from his network. But Adam didn't stop there. He shares the pivot that changed everything: shifting from organic-only to investing 50% of revenue into thought leader ads, specifically targeting the US market where LinkedIn ad spend is highest. The result? 400-500 signups per month, with 80% directly attributed to organic content plus paid amplification. Adam also reveals his weekend content system, his four content pillars (paid ads, brand building, founder-led growth, and personal), and why he believes distribution and brand are now the only real moats in a world where AI makes product features commoditised. Key Takeaways How to validate demand before launching: Build an audience first by giving value for years without asking for anything—then when you finally ask, conversion rates skyrocket. Why thought leader ads outperform traditional LinkedIn ads: Organic posts that already resonate are "battle-tested"—amplifying them with paid reach to new audiences dramatically improves ROI compared to brand account ads with CTAs. How to structure a sustainable content system: Plan content on weekends around 3-4 clear content pillars, schedule posts for the week, then stay active in comments during weekdays instead of writing on the fly. Why founder-led brands win in crowded markets: With 250,000-300,000 martech solutions available, distribution and brand are the only defensible moats—features alone won't differentiate you. How to convince sceptical executives to invest in brand: Start small, prove early signals (engagement from ICP, content mentioned in sales calls), then scale once you demonstrate pipeline impact over 3-6 months. The perfect LinkedIn post formula: Strong hook that creates curiosity or promises value + tactical insight or lesson learnt + no product pitch (let people discover you organically). Relevant Links and Resources Connect with Adam Holmgren on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-holmgren/Learn more about Fibbler: https://fibbler.co What's Next If you're building a B2B brand and struggling to justify investment in owned media, start by building one person's audience consistently for 90 days—then amplify what works. The compounding effect is real. Useful Links Connect with Jason Bradwell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonbradwell/Listen to Pipe Dream on Podbean: https://www.podbean.com/podcast-detail/pipe-dreamLearn more about B2B Better: https://www.b2b-better.com

Companies go upmarket, hit three slow months, and decide the strategy “doesn't work.” In this live episode, Yann (co-founder of Userled, former Salesforce enterprise seller) breaks down what enterprise deals actually look like up close: long stretches of silence that aren't rejection, stakeholders who shape the decision without ever joining a call, and why “activity” can feel busy while the deal goes nowhere. You'll also hear the less glamorous side: what founder life feels like when momentum disappears, why some teams survive the hard quarters (and others don't), and how hiring for energy changes everything. Yann shares how Userled changed their ICP, survived two brutal quarters — then closed more in October–November than the rest of the year combined. We enjoyed this conversation. Hope you will too.

In this video, we dive into why B2B partnerships are one of the most powerful (and underused) growth strategies in 2026, and how to get your first one off the ground.We cover:Why partnerships act as a trust shortcut with your target audience, how rising paid media costs (up ~14% per year) are making partnerships more essential than ever, and the exact 4-step framework to land your first B2B partnership.If you are a B2B marketer or founder struggling with rising customer acquisition costs and want a more affordable, high-trust way to reach your ideal customers.Tune in and learn:- Why partnerships transfer trust from aligned brands to your audience- How overlapping ICPs make partnerships more effective than cold outreach- Why AI-generated content is making owned audiences even more valuable- The importance of executive buy-in and clear KPIs to make partnerships stick- Brian's #1 tip: don't go for the big fish first. Start with complementary, similarly-sized partners- The 4-step action framework: identify, shortlist (top 3–5), reach out, and go deep-----------------------------------------------------

In this episode, Caleb talks about having the bravery to stay disciplined — even in a slow economy with revenue pressure — and choosing the right clients. He emphasizes focusing on your ideal ICP, working with people who understand and value your work, and only taking on projects that are truly worth doing — purposeful and intentional, rather than driven by short-term fear. https://www.elitenetworks.us Auman Landscape on YouTube Primed For Growth www.companycam/kcpodcast Company Cam- 50% for 2 months! Linktree/AumanLandscape @aumanlandscapellc www.CycleCPA.com  Use code: Auman and save $200 when signing up. LMN Software Save on onboarding! Code: AUMAN

Lula rebuilt property maintenance from the ground up by solving a fundamental problem: property managers spend 40% of their time coordinating maintenance with zero visibility into work order status. After pivoting from a B2C app when they discovered landlords were their actual users, Bo Lais and his team made a critical insight—deep PMS integration wasn't a feature, it was the entire go-to-market strategy. Today, Lula's 9,000-contractor network processes 1,000 work orders daily across 50 markets, performing 30 HVAC replacements per day at scale that enables direct manufacturer relationships. Now they're commercializing their internal tech stack as Foresight, a standalone SaaS platform launching Q1. In this episode of BUILDERS, Bo breaks down the strategic decisions behind building integrations as distribution, using network density to create pricing advantages competitors can't match, and knowing when to productize your internal tools. Topics Discussed: Why the B2C to B2B pivot happened after discovering usage patterns, not market research How PMS integration eliminated "swivel chair" friction and became the primary distribution channel Strategic partnership depth over breadth: enabling co-selling with AppFolio, Buildium, Yardi rather than partner proliferation The 250-door threshold where maintenance coordination breaks and technology becomes necessary Network density economics: 30 daily HVAC replacements creating leverage for direct manufacturer negotiations and flat-rate service catalogs The decision framework for commercializing Foresight based on upstream customer advisory group feedback Maintaining discipline around ICP when sales teams naturally want to expand GTM Lessons For B2B Founders: System of record integration is your distribution strategy, not a feature: Lula's standalone app created adoption friction because property managers refused to work outside their PMS. Bo's realization: "They need everything to live in their system of record...They don't want swivel chair. And then providing that real time visibility throughout the entire life cycle of the work order was really valuable because prior to that they assign it to a vendor, and then they cross their fingers and hope that it gets done." The integration solved both adoption friction and delivered continuous visibility their workflow demanded. For B2B founders: if your users live in Salesforce, HubSpot, or vertical-specific platforms all day, your integration strategy IS your distribution strategy—build there first, not alongside. Strategic partnerships require enablement infrastructure, not just signed contracts: Bo's approach rejects partnership sprawl: "It's not about stacking on another 10 partnerships, it's about how do we go deeper and enable those partners to co-sell with us and talk about the value props that together we can provide." This means building co-selling toolkits, joint value propositions, and partner success metrics. For B2B founders: one partnership where the partner's sales team actively sells your solution beats ten partnerships where you're just listed in a marketplace. Invest in making partners successful sellers, not collecting logos. ICP discipline requires sales team enforcement mechanisms, not just definitions: Lula knew their ICP but struggled with execution. Bo learned "it's one thing when we understood who our ICP was, but then it's a whole nother thing to adhere to that and get the sales team to adhere to that ICP." The specificity matters: residential (not multifamily), single-family, 250+ doors (where coordination breaks), capped at several thousand doors (before enterprise needs diverge). For B2B founders: document your ICP, but also build the compensation structures, deal approval processes, and CRM workflows that prevent sales from chasing deals outside the sweet spot—even when quota pressure hits. Message outcomes customers measure, not the technology delivering them: Bo's AI framing: "They care about the outcomes, right? If we're able to move the needle on the outcomes and provide a better experience for residents by automating communication, automating the time to schedule, automating the time to get resolution...it's not the how, it's the result." Lula's AI eliminates truck rolls through upfront troubleshooting and improves one-trip resolution rates—that's what property managers track. For B2B founders: if your customer's boss asks "how's that new tool working," they answer with metrics they're held accountable for (resolution time, truck rolls, resident satisfaction), not "it uses AI." Lead with those metrics. Productize internal tools when customer advisory groups request them and you have defensible advantages: Lula commercialized Foresight after upstream customers specifically asked for their tech during advisory sessions. Bo's competitive moat thinking: "Everyone else thinks they're going to do it better with the AI and automation they have. But our competitive moat is that our on-demand network is built inside this AI work order management system. And because of the scale of our network and the buying power, we can provide instant quotes for a lot of services...our competitors that are just doing software don't have this network of contractors nationwide." For B2B founders expanding product lines: customer pull plus operational advantages competitors can't replicate (Lula's contractor density, manufacturer relationships, 1,000 daily work orders of training data) create viable new products. Without both, you're just building undifferentiated software. // Sponsors: Front Lines — We help B2B tech companies launch, manage, and grow podcasts that drive demand, awareness, and thought leadership. www.FrontLines.io The Global Talent Co. — We help tech startups find, vet, hire, pay, and retain amazing marketing talent that costs 50-70% less than the US & Europe. www.GlobalTalent.co // Don't Miss: New Podcast Series — How I Hire Senior GTM leaders share the tactical hiring frameworks they use to build winning revenue teams. Hosted by Andy Mowat, who scaled 4 unicorns from $10M to $100M+ ARR and launched Whispered to help executives find their next role. Subscribe here: https://open.spotify.com/show/53yCHlPfLSMFimtv0riPyM

This week, join Peter and Chris as they deep dive into the opening track off of RiddleBox, the almighty third jokers card from ICP , "Intro." Sit back and listen as they dissect the lyrics and content of the track, discuss the Insane Clown Posse's joker card intros, talk about movies from 1995 (and 2025), and tackle important topics like if the Jokers Gallery is juggalo canon!      The LinkTree is at https://linktr.ee/juggalorwd... Twitter/X: @JuggaloRWD IG: @JuggaloRWD Facebook: @JuggaloRWD TikTok: @JuggaloRWD Threads: @JuggaloRWD BlueSky: @JuggaloRWD The website is www.JuggaloRewind.com. Join us everywhere to talk to other listeners and about ICP, Twiztid and random juggalo nonsense. Email us at juggalorwd@gmail.com or call/text us at (810) 666-1570.        Join our Patreon! For only FOUR DOLLARS a month, you can join Kilnore's Army and get at least two bonus episodes per month, videos, chats and more! Even without paying, you can join the Patreon community! Become an official member of the Phat or Wack Pack today! -- Juggalo Rewind Patreon. Additional music provided by the IRTD. Voiceover work provided by Christmas. All music played is owned by the respective publishers and copywrite holders and is reproduced for review purposes only under fair use. #ForTheJuggaloCulture

Send a textIn this episode of the B2B Go-To-Market Leaders Podcast, Vijay Damojipurapu sits down with AJ Gandhi, Chief Growth Officer and Go-To-Market Operating Partner, to unpack what it really takes to build a high-performing, holistic GTM engine.With a career spanning Bain, McKinsey, venture-backed startups, Salesforce, RingCentral, and private equity, AJ brings a rare 360-degree perspective on strategy, sales, marketing, partner ecosystems, and post-sales execution.AJ defines go-to-market as the entire lifecycle journey of a customer — not just sales — and explains why most companies underperform because they fail to integrate product, marketing, sales, partners, and customer success into a unified system.They dive into:Why GTM must be holistic across the full “bow tie,” from acquisition to expansion and advocacy.The diagnostic framework AJ uses to assess strategy, talent, execution, and performance in portfolio companies.How to identify waste in sales coverage, geography expansion, marketing spend, and organizational design.Why partner ecosystems follow the 80/20 rule — and how doubling down on top partners drives disproportionate returns.The importance of measuring value realization, not just selling ROI promises.How to elevate mid-level business problems to CFO-level strategic priorities through economic impact framing.Lessons from scaling enterprise and mid-market GTM motions — and the danger of straying from your ICP.Why pricing optimization and expansion within existing customers often deliver faster impact than new logo acquisition.The leadership discipline required in the first 100 days of a transformation.And AJ's advice to rising GTM professionals: master the fundamentals, focus on the 80/20, and develop influence without authority.This episode is a masterclass in combining strategic rigor with execution discipline — and a reminder that sustainable growth comes from fundamentals done exceptionally well.Connect with Vijay Damojipurapu on LinkedInBrought to you by: stratyve.com

Qualytics is redefining enterprise data quality by positioning it as a collaborative business function rather than an isolated data engineering problem. Founded at the start of the pandemic by Gorkem Sevinc - a former CTO and CDO who spent years managing reactive data quality firefights - Qualytics emerged from a clear practitioner pain point: writing endless custom rules to catch data issues after they'd already broken dashboards and KPIs. The company raised pre-seed and seed rounds while building with beta customers, then closed a Series A as repeatability patterns emerged in their POC process. Now, as enterprises scramble to operationalize AI initiatives, Qualytics is experiencing explosive inbound demand from organizations realizing their data foundations aren't ready for democratized data access. Topics Discussed The practitioner insight that sparked Qualytics: reactive rule-writing doesn't scale Leveraging existing CTO/CDO networks and PE portfolio connections for beta customers The evolution from free POCs to paid POCs as a mutual commitment mechanism Identifying repeatability through week-by-week POC conversion patterns Building practitioner credibility into the sales motion while hiring for enterprise sales grit The decision to hire sales and marketing leadership simultaneously post-Series A Tracking in-product engagement metrics (DQ operations frequency, anomaly detection, rule editing) as churn prevention Positioning data quality as vertical-specific business problems (premium leakage, regulatory compliance) The timing advantage: AI adoption forcing enterprises to treat data governance as mandatory infrastructure GTM Lessons For B2B Founders Talk to 100 prospects before writing code—even with deep domain expertise: After burning 18 months building a radiology second opinion product that patients didn't want (they didn't even know radiologists were doctors), Gorkem adopted a hard rule: validate with 100 conversations before building. His advantage as a former CTO who lived the data quality problem created false confidence. Practitioners often assume their pain is universal, but buyer awareness and willingness to pay are separate questions. Start with NSF I-Corps-style problem validation: show rough sketches, probe what happened when they hit the pain point, understand how it hurt them financially or operationally. Repeatability appears in micro-conversions during trials, not just closed-won rates: Gorkem didn't declare product-market fit when deals closed—he declared it when he could predict POC behavior by week. "Week two, I'm expecting this. Week three, I'm expecting this." That predictability enabled ROI calculators and internal champion enablement materials. For technical founders, this means instrumenting your trial or POC to track leading indicators: specific features activated, data volumes processed, number of team members engaged, frequency of logins. When those patterns stabilize across prospects, you have a repeatable motion. Use paid POCs as a procurement front-loading mechanism, not a revenue play: Qualytics charges nominal amounts for some POCs—not for the revenue, but to get the MSA signed and force both parties through legal/security review upfront. This eliminates the pattern where free POCs succeed technically but die in procurement. Large enterprises often refuse to pay for POCs, which Gorkem accepts—but only if they commit equivalent effort (executive time, cross-functional teams). The paid POC is a qualification tool: if they won't commit anything, they're not a real opportunity. Hire sales and marketing leadership in parallel and hold them to unified GTM metrics: Gorkem regrets hiring early sales reps before leadership and delaying marketing investment. Post-Series A, he hired both leaders simultaneously and holds them jointly accountable to pipeline generation and velocity—not siloed MQL counts or quota attainment. This structural decision forces collaboration on messaging, ICP definition, and campaign strategy from day one. For technical founders who "figured out" founder-led sales, resist the urge to replicate your motion with more SDRs. Bring in strategic leadership that can build a scalable system. Instrument product engagement as your earliest churn signal—then intervene immediately: Beyond quarterly NPS and executive QBRs, Gorkem tracks granular product usage: how many data quality operations users run, how many anomalies they discover, how actively they're editing rules. When engagement drops, he doesn't wait—he jumps into the customer's existing weekly meetings to diagnose and course-correct. For B2B founders building complex products with long time-to-value, passive health scores aren't enough. You need active usage telemetry and a low-latency intervention process. Translate technical capabilities into vertical-specific business outcomes: Gorkem doesn't pitch "data quality for data engineers." He talks about premium leakage with insurance companies and OCC/SEC data controls with banks. This reframing works because buyers recognize their problem, not a vendor category. The shift requires research: understand each vertical's regulatory environment, operational pain points, and the business metrics executives care about. When you walk in speaking their language about their P&L impact, you're not another vendor—you're someone who gets it. Time your market entry to when "nice-to-have" becomes "must-have": When Qualytics launched, some enterprises called data quality a "nice-to-have." AI adoption changed that calculus overnight. Organizations planning to let 20,000 employees interrogate data through AI interfaces suddenly realized they need robust data governance, quality controls, and cataloging first. Gorkem's timing wasn't luck—he built during the "nice-to-have" phase so he'd be ready when AI budgets made it mandatory. Technical founders should identify the external forcing function (regulation, technology shift, economic change) that will transform their solution from vitamin to painkiller. // Sponsors: Front Lines — We help B2B tech companies launch, manage, and grow podcasts that drive demand, awareness, and thought leadership. www.FrontLines.io The Global Talent Co. — We help tech startups find, vet, hire, pay, and retain amazing marketing talent that costs 50-70% less than the US & Europe. www.GlobalTalent.co // Don't Miss: New Podcast Series — How I Hire Senior GTM leaders share the tactical hiring frameworks they use to build winning revenue teams. Hosted by Andy Mowat, who scaled 4 unicorns from $10M to $100M+ ARR and launched Whispered to help executives find their next role. Subscribe here: https://open.spotify.com/show/53yCHlPfLSMFimtv0riPyM

Krazy Train Podcast with Jasmin St. Claire pulls into full Juggalo + wrestling + conspiracy territory as Violent J (Insane Clown Posse / Psychopathic Records / JCW) jumps on for a no-holds-barred conversation. They hit everything from ICP’s origin story (backyard wrestling, Detroit “gimmick” culture, DIY grind, and the switch from Inner City Posse) to the birth of clown paint, the Hatchetman logo, and what it takes to keep Juggalos loyal for decades. Violent J also breaks down how Psychopathic Records operates today, why they’re not actively signing new acts, and what’s next with the brand. Then the episode veers hard into Bigfoot lore: why Violent J sees Sasquatch as an elusive primate, what an AI era does to “proof,” and how his obsession expanded into primates and orangutans, including inspiration from “Orangutan Jungle School.” On the wrestling side, he talks JCW’s evolution into “for all wrestling fans,” improving production + YouTube strategy, building characters, and why bringing in Vince Russo changed the creative direction. Plus, shoutouts to the upcoming ICP docuseries (Dead Bug) and a short doc from Cole Bennett / Lyrical Lemonade, along with plugs for PsychopathicVault.com and StrangleMania during WrestleMania week.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this exciting episode: We listen to and discuss Siamese Goat God, and we review Alla Xul Elu's new album No Masters! We also talk about upcoming underground festivals and events, and we bring you all the most essential music news!If you want to interact with us, send us messages, follow us, support us, or join our community, check out the links on our WEBSITE.If you want EVEN MORE underground goodness, check out Robbie's underground rap and horrorcore focused news show on YouTube, DO IT FOR THE UNDERGROUND (DIFTUG) HERESend a text

George Terry built a LinkedIn ads agency by doing what he preaches: posting consistently, building a personal brand, and measuring ROI by channel. We help B2B companies build the same kind of owned media system.  If you run a service business and want to know what a LinkedIn-first pipeline actually looks like in practice, this episode is it. Host Jason Bradwell sits down with George Terry, Co-Founder of Winbox, a LinkedIn ads agency working with 50+ B2B brands, to unpack how they've built a system where personal brands drive more pipeline than any other channel. George's core point is clear: nobody goes on LinkedIn to hang out with brands. Everyone's there to hang out with people. Brands are boring. Personal profiles are the best distribution channel on LinkedIn right now, and the challenge is finding people in your company who are willing to get out there and back the business. Winbox segments pipeline into referrals, inbound, and events. Referrals close fastest but can't be your only channel. Events generate volume at the top of funnel but deals are smaller. Inbound from marketing, meaning people who sought them out because they trust the brand, generates the largest deal sizes by far. Why? Because buyers coming to you with trust come with bigger budgets. The move upmarket changed everything. When Winbox decided to stop working with small budgets and target companies spending £10k a month or more on LinkedIn ads, their market shrank dramatically. That forced a shift to an account-based approach: a defined list of 2,500 companies across UK and Europe, and everything; ads, content, targeting, focused exclusively on that list. The metric they obsess over is market saturation: reaching 50 to 80% of that list four to eight times a month. Hit that and you're influencing decision-making when buyers enter a cycle. Miss it and your marketing may as well not exist. The content system behind this is simpler than it sounds. George spends two hours a week on content creation, records voice notes on walks to capture ideas, and polishes them up on Monday mornings. Five days a week posting, a monthly video podcast, 40 LinkedIn posts, eight video shorts, four newsletters, a webinar, and a quarterly event. The machine behind it does the heavy lifting but the principle is the same for anyone starting out: done is better than perfect. Post the rubbish. Get the reps in. The five-year journey started with two likes. Chapter Markers 00:00 - Introduction: George Terry and Winbox  01:00 - From content business to LinkedIn ads agency 02:00 - How Winbox acquires clients today  03:00 - From personal networks to personal brands  05:00 - Pipeline breakdown: referrals, inbound, events  06:00 - Why inbound generates the largest deal sizes  08:00 - Multi-channel attribution and why black and white thinking fails  10:00 - Three or four channels done well beats eight done badly  11:00 - Starting over: invest earlier and move upmarket sooner  13:00 - Shifting to account-based marketing with a defined company list  14:00 - Market saturation: 50 to 80% reach, four to eight times monthly  15:00 - Cyclical buying patterns and summer brand-building  17:00 - Personal brands vs brand accounts on LinkedIn  18:00 - Why people buy agencies because of people, not logos  19:00 - Content mix: formats, frequency, and community engagement  20:00 - The weekly content system: two hours, voice notes, Monday polish  21:00 - Done is better than perfect: posting, reps, and consistency  26:00 - ICP clarity as the non-negotiable from day one Useful Links Connect with Jason Bradwell on LinkedIn Connect with George Terry on LinkedIn Visit Winbox Check out LinkedIn Ads Insider on YouTube, Apple Podcast, and iHeart Explore B2B Better website and the Pipe Dream podcast

Dozens of advertising events occur every year, but not every event is for you. Eric Franchi and Joe Zappa break down the purpose of the six core advertising events, who should attend based on stage and ICP, and how to think about events strategically. They also cover common mistakes founders make and how to build an event calendar that drives outcomes, not optics.

Most B2B companies don't lose because they lack opportunity. They lose because they try to be everything to everyone.In this episode of Content Amplified, Amie Milner, EVP of Marketing and Sales Enablement at Abstrakt, breaks down how a focused niche attack strategy fuels predictable pipeline growth—and why specialization, not scale, drives stronger close rates.Amie shares how Abstrakt grew into an $80M business by narrowing its focus, aligning sales reps to specific industries, and telling one powerful story instead of a hundred diluted ones. If you've ever struggled to say no to a prospect, clarify your ICP, or align marketing with sales development, this conversation will sharpen your thinking.Because when you stop casting randomly and start targeting intentionally, momentum follows.What you'll learn in this episode:Why one strong case study can outperform dozens of generic proof pointsHow to identify your most profitable niche using revenue fit, service fit, and stickinessThe difference between casting a wide net in digital—and staying hyper-focused in outboundHow to align SDRs and sales reps to industries where they naturally winWhy exclusivity can strengthen your pitch and improve close ratesWhen to say no to a prospect (and why it protects both sides)How to expand into adjacent industries without losing focusGuest Bio: Amie MilnerAmie Milner is the EVP of Marketing and Sales Enablement at Abstrakt, a B2B business growth company serving more than 2,000 clients across the U.S., Canada, and the U.K.Over the past decade, Amie has worked her way up from SDR to executive leadership, building Abstrakt's sales enablement department from the ground up and leading marketing, digital strategy, and sales development under one unified vision. Her unique vantage point across marketing, outbound sales, and enablement allows her to create alignment most organizations struggle to achieve.Amie specializes in industry-focused growth strategies, outbound pipeline development, and building predictable revenue systems for small to mid-sized businesses.Connect with Amie:Amie's LinkedIn profileAbstrakt's WebsiteText us what you think about this episode!

This episode dives into the often-overlooked intersection of hepatology and women's health. Tatyana Kushner and Andrea Goldstein share their professional journeys, from the high-intensity liver transplant units of UCLA to pioneering women's liver health programs and their personal connections to the field. The conversation focuses on the complexities of Intrahepatic Cholestasis of Pregnancy (ICP) and Primary Biliary Cholingitis (PBC), highlighting the racial disparities in diagnosis and the critical need for genetic testing. Our guests discuss the challenges of clinical trials in pregnant populations and offer a roadmap for better preconception counseling, interdisciplinary care, and the power of patient advocacy.  Adding a deeply personal perspective, the host also shares her own experience with ICP, underscoring why early recognition and coordinated care are essential for protecting both maternal and fetal health. This podcast is not available for CME/CE/CPD credits. Please visit the Medscape homepage for accredited CME/CE/CPD activities.

In this episode of Beyond Coaching, Rob sits down with Russell Smelley—NAIA Hall of Fame coach, longtime Westmont College faculty member and coach, and one of the most thoughtful voices in collegiate coaching—to explore what it really means to coach people, not just train athletes.Russell shares stories from nearly five decades in coaching, including his journey from proving himself through wins to measuring success by trust, character, and long-term impact. This conversation cuts straight to the heart of the profession: identity, psychological safety, competition, and the quiet work of shaping people who thrive well beyond sport.This is a grounded, honest discussion for coaches who want to win and lead with integrity.Key Themes & TakeawaysTraining vs. Coaching: Why developing people must take precedence over chasing results—and how the best coaches do both.Psychological Safety (Done Right): Safety doesn't mean low standards. It means accountability without fear.Evaluate, Don't Critique: How post-competition language shapes trust, learning, and long-term growth.Competing in the Context of Relationship: Why opponents aren't enemies—and how respect fuels healthier competition.Focus vs. Obsession: Where intensity helps and where it becomes destructive for athletes and coaches alike.Winning Isn't Enough: Russell reflects on when he realized success had to be defined by more than outcomes.Mentorship & Patience: Why some lessons take years to land—and why that's okay.Advice to Young Coaches: “Say no more often. Be clear. Get a mentor. Don't vacillate.”Memorable Quotes“The coaching part says my ego takes second place to wins and losses.”“Evaluate, don't critique.”“Psychological safety isn't avoiding hard things—it's opening the door to more responsibility.”“Your opponent is not your enemy. They're there to help you get better.”About the GuestRussell Smelley is a longtime cross country and track & field coach at Westmont College, a multiple-time conference Coach of the Year, and an NAIA Hall of Fame inductee. As both coach and faculty member, Russell brings a rare blend of competitive excellence, faith-centered leadership, and deep care for athlete development.Russell is currently developing workshops on transformational leadership for coaches, educators, and parents—focused on moving from transactional outcomes to lasting impact.Contact Russell: smelley@westmont.eduListen & SubscribeApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-coaching-an-impactful-coaching-project-podcast/id1711128150Spotify: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-coaching-an-impactful-coaching-project-podcast/id1711128150Beyond Coaching is produced by the Impactful Coaching Project, in partnership with Friends University. ICP exists to develop coaches who lead the whole person and to advance best practices for coaching the 21st-century athlete.Learn more at impactfulcoachingproject.com.

What if failure isn't something to avoid, but a skill to master? This episode breaks down why startups can't be built on certainty—new markets, new products, and new teams mean you're guaranteed to be wrong a lot. The goal isn't to “be right,” it's rapid error correction: make decisions, ship anyway, learn fast, and recover even faster. The conversation covers how avoiding failure leads to paralysis (“steering a parked car”), why indecision compounds in startups, and how to reduce risk by keeping failures small, reversible, and frequent (kill switches, stop rules, and capped losses). They share early personal stories—school fights and a childhood cattle business collapse—to show how overcoming real consequences builds confidence and resilience. Practical examples include choosing an ICP quickly, improving poor conversion rates through iteration, using vesting/cliffs when picking co-founders, and why even top VCs still miss constantly. The key takeaway: the most dangerous competitor is the one who isn't afraid to get hit, recover, and keep coming back—because that's as close to “invincible” as a founder can get.02:01 Failure Isn't the Enemy: Stop Optimizing for Being Right02:59 The Founder Reality: Uncertainty, Rapid Error Correction & the Boxing Analogy03:44 Safety vs Startups: Why Most People Avoid the Risk05:24 ‘Steering a Parked Car': Indecision Kills Startups07:54 Make the Call, Learn Fast: Small Failures, Big Truths09:02 We're Conditioned to Fear Failure (School, Work, Relationships)11:59 Will's Origin Story: Jason Barker and Learning to Beat the Monster14:48 Choosing to Fail on Purpose: Turning Fear into a Superpower17:06 Ryan's First Big Failure: The Farm/Cattle Business Lesson Begins17:45 Cash-Strapped Expansion: Inventory Leverage & a Brutal Winter18:09 When the Side Hustle Needs a Side Hustle (and the Cost of Neglect)18:35 Failing Hard at 12: Losing Animals and Learning to Plan19:51 Founders Don't Win by Being Right—They Win by Taking Hits21:36 Shipping While Wrong: Marketing Experiments, MVPs, and Momentum22:51 Hiring, Co-Founders & Investors: Why Nobody Can Pick Perfectly24:00 The Real Skill: Recovering From Failure (Resilience as a Reflex)30:26 Small Blast Radius, High Frequency: Reversible Bets & Kill Switches31:13 Failure Is Portable: Building a House, Living ‘Why Not,' No RegretsResources:Startup Therapy Podcasthttps://www.startups.com/community/startup-therapyWebsitehttps://www.startups.com/beginLinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/company/startups-co/Join our Network of Top FoundersWil Schroterhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/wilschroter/Ryan Rutanhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-rutan/What to listen for:

THIS WEEK: Big Money Hustlas (2000), Death Racers (2008) and Big Money Rustlas (2010)You may know ICP as the rapping leaders of a dubious "gang" of graps-loving clowns. You may even know them for their contributions to the science of magnetism. But did you know that they're also auteur filmmakers? Donate to Palestinian Medical AidSupport Optimism Vaccine on Patreon

BONUS: Why Embedding Sales with Engineering in Stealth Mode Changed Everything for Snowflake In this episode, we talk about what it really takes to scale go-to-market from zero to billions. We interview Chris Degnan, a builder of one of the most iconic revenue engines in enterprise software at Snowflake. This conversation is grounded in the transformation described in his book Make It Snow—the journey from early-stage chaos to durable, aligned growth. Embedding Sales with Engineering While Still in Stealth "I don't expect you to sell anything for 2 years. What I really want you to do is get a ton of feedback and get customers to use the product so that when we come out of stealth mode, we have this world-class product."   Chris joined Snowflake when there were zero customers and the company was still in stealth mode. The counterintuitive move of embedding sales next to engineering so early wasn't about driving immediate revenue, it was about understanding product-market fit. Chris's job was to get customers to try the product, use it for free, and break it. And break it they did. This early feedback led to material changes in the product before general availability. The approach helped shape their ideal customer profile (ICP) and gave the engineering team real-world validation that shaped Snowflake's technical direction. In a world where startups are pressured to show revenue immediately, Snowflake's investors took the opposite approach: focus on building a product people cannot live without first. Why Sales and Marketing Alignment Is Existential "If we're not driving revenue, if the revenue is not growing, then how are we going to be successful? Revenue was king."   When Denise Persson joined as CMO, she shifted the conversation from marketing qualified leads (MQLs) to qualified meetings for the sales team. This simple reframe eliminated the typical friction between sales and marketing. Both leaders shared challenges openly and held each other accountable. When someone in either organization wasn't being respectful to the other team, they addressed it directly. Chris warns founders against creating artificial friction between sales and marketing: "A lot of founders who are engineers think that they want to create this friction between sales and marketing. And that's the opposite instinct you should have." The key insight is treating sales and marketing as a symbiotic system where revenue is the shared north star. Coaching Leaders Through Hypergrowth "If there's a problem in one of our organizations, if someone comes with a mentality that is not great for us, we're gonna give direct feedback to those people."   Chris and Denise maintained tight alignment at the top level of their organizations through four CEO transitions. Their partnership created a culture of accountability that cascaded through both teams. When either hired senior people who didn't fit the culture, they investigated and addressed it. The coaching approach wasn't about winning by authority—it was about maintaining partnership and shared accountability for results. This required unlearning traditional management approaches that pit departments against each other and instead fostering genuine collaboration. Cultural Behaviors That Scale (And Those That Don't) "We got dumb and lazy. We forgot about it. And then we decided, hey, we're gonna go get a little bit more fit, and figure out how to go get the new logos again."   Chris describes himself as a "velocity salesperson" with a hyper-focus on new customer acquisition. This focus worked brilliantly during Snowflake's growth phase—land customers, and the high net retention rate would drive expansion. However, as Snowflake prepared to go public, they took their foot off the gas on new logo acquisition, believing not all new logos were equal. This turned out to be a mistake. In his final year at Snowflake, working with CEO Sridhar Ramaswamy, they redesigned the sales team to reinvigorate the new logo acquisition machine. The lesson: the cultural behaviors that fuel early success must be consciously maintained and sometimes redesigned as you scale. Keeping the Message Narrow Before Going Platform "Eventually, I know you want to be a platform. But having a targeted market when you're initially launching the company, that people are spending money on, makes it easier for your sales team."   Snowflake intentionally positioned itself in the enterprise data warehousing market—a $10-12 billion annual market with 5,000-7,000 enterprise customers—rather than trying to sound "bigger" as a platform play. The strategic advantage was accessing existing budgets. When selling to large enterprises that go through annual planning processes, fitting into an existing budget means sales cycles of 3-6 months instead of 9-18 months. Yes, competition eventually tried to corner Snowflake as "just a cute data warehouse," but by then they had captured significant market share and could stretch their wings into the broader data cloud opportunity. Selling Consumption-Based Products to Fixed-Budget Buyers "Don't believe anything I say, try it."   One of Snowflake's hardest challenges was explaining their elastic, consumption-based architecture to procurement and legal teams accustomed to fixed budgets. In 2013-2015, many CIOs still believed data would stay in their data centers. Snowflake's model—where customers could spin up a thousand servers for 4 hours, load data, while analysts ran queries without performance impact—seemed impossible. Chris's approach was simple: set up proof of concepts and pilots. Let the technology speak for itself. The shift from fixed resources to elastic architecture required changing not just technology but entire mindsets about how data infrastructure could work.   About Chris Degnan Chris Degnan is a builder of one of the most iconic revenue engines in enterprise software. As the first sales hire at Snowflake, he helped scale the company from zero customers to billions in revenue. Chris co-authored Make It Snow: From Zero to Billions with Denise Persson, documenting their journey of building Snowflake's go-to-market organization. Today, Chris advises early-stage startups on building their go-to-market strategies and works with Iconiq Capital, the venture firm that led Snowflake's Series D round.   You can link with Chris Degnan on LinkedIn and learn more about the book at MakeItSnowBook.com.

Sorry folks. Chris was very sick this week and we didn't want to start the season off like that. So give us a week and we will be back at it next Thursday morning, normal time. Thank you! But for now, listen to Peter rambling for five minutes as he tests out the new microphones.      The LinkTree is at https://linktr.ee/juggalorwd... Twitter/X: @JuggaloRWD IG: @JuggaloRWD Facebook: @JuggaloRWD TikTok: @JuggaloRWD Threads: @JuggaloRWD BlueSky: @JuggaloRWD The website is www.JuggaloRewind.com. Join us everywhere to talk to other listeners and about ICP, Twiztid and random juggalo nonsense. Email us at juggalorwd@gmail.com or call/text us at (810) 666-1570.        Join our Patreon! For only FOUR DOLLARS a month, you can join Kilnore's Army and get at least two bonus episodes per month, videos, chats and more! Even without paying, you can join the Patreon community! Become an official member of the Phat or Wack Pack today! -- Juggalo Rewind Patreon. Additional music provided by the IRTD. Voiceover work provided by Christmas. All music played is owned by the respective publishers and copywrite holders and is reproduced for review purposes only under fair use. #ForTheJuggaloCulture

Send a textGrowth isn't a mystery; it's a system. We sit down with award-winning fractional CMO and bestselling author Kathryn Strachan to unpack the moves that turn scattered marketing efforts into a commercial engine that compounds. From the mindset shift that frees founders from bottlenecking their teams to the exact sequence for building demand and then layering sales, Kathryn shares a clear, proven path to scale.We start with the hardest habit to break: doing everything yourself. Kathryn explains how she stepped out of the weeds, hired senior operators, and aligned teams around outcomes instead of tactics. Then we go deep on foundations—positioning, ICP clarity, and validated messaging—so every tactic has a purpose. She walks through the first levers she pulls inside a company: rebuild the website as a true conversion hub and run a spend audit to stop wasting money on channels that don't move pipeline. The result is a tighter story, a cleaner funnel, and a budget that works harder.Kathryn also challenges a common startup reflex: hiring sales before marketing. Her approach flips the order. Keep founder-led sales while a fractional marketing leader builds brand, content, and credibility that drive inbound. Six months later, add sales to convert that momentum and amplify with targeted outbound. We explore how personal branding fuels trust at scale, why technical founders struggle with commercial storytelling, and how a visible leader can win enterprise attention without a giant ad budget.Finally, we tackle the 2025 reality: AI is the new search. If your brand isn't cited across the web, AI won't surface you. Kathryn outlines a practical strategy to expand your digital footprint—third-party features, consistent expert content, and multi-channel visibility—so you become “pickable” by AI systems and human buyers alike. It's a candid, no-fluff masterclass in scaling smarter.If this conversation sparked ideas, share it with someone building something big, subscribe for more bold, practical strategies, and tell us: what lever will you pull first?Support the show

Send me a text (I will personally respond)Are you struggling to build a channel sales program that actually produces meaningful revenue? Wondering why bigger isn't always better when choosing channel partners? Frustrated by the constant pressure to sign as many partners as possible, only to see limited results? This episode dives deep into the strategic and tactical mistakes cybersecurity startups make with channel go-to-market, and reveals how to build a scalable, effective partner ecosystem.In this conversation we discuss:

Edward Burtynsky is one of the preeminent photographers working today. For decades, his work has examined the human impact on the environment. By turns troubling and awe-inspiring, his large-scale images reveal a world in rapid transition. An illuminating and deeply engaging discussion.Links:Edward Burtynsky websiteBurtynsky at the International Center of PhotographyEdward Burtynsky Instagram

Mark Roberge is calling it now: we are about to witness the highest failure rate for a single cohort of startups in the history of tech. As author of Science of Scaling, and co-founder of Stage 2 Capital, Mark joins the pod to dismantle the "growth at all costs" mindset that still plagues founders. He explains why the assembly-line sales model is dead and how AI will force a return to the full-cycle "rainmaker" rep. **Key moments:** The AI Bubble: Why the index fund of the last two years of AI investments is likely doomed. Fixing Your ICP: And how optimizing for CAC or inbound volume without ICP fundamentals in place is a recipe for disaster The 80% Rule: How AI moves reps from 25% selling time to 80%, and what that means for the future of SDR, AE, and CS functions LIR - What it is and Why It Matters: Why every board deck needs a a LIR slide to predict product-market fit before revenue numbers hit **Note:** Mark is donating 100% of the proceeds from his new book to mental health causes. Grab a copy of *The Science of Scaling* on Amazon!   Subscribe to Topline Newsletter. Tune into Topline Podcast, the #1 podcast for founders, operators, and investors in B2B tech. Join the free Topline Slack channel to connect with 600+ revenue leaders to keep the conversation going beyond the podcast!   Chapters: 00:00 Introduction: Mark Roberge and The Science of Scaling 03:44 Founder Turnover and Loyalty in the AI Era 06:18 Navigating Founder Burnout and Strategic Pivots 16:30 Predicting High Failure Rates for AI-Native Startups 18:57 The Origin Story Behind The Science of Scaling 24:51 Why Most Companies Define Their ICP Wrong 28:34 The Leading Indicator of Retention (LIR) Framework 32:30 Real-World Example: Shifting ICP Based on Retention 37:22 Who Should Own Product-Market Fit? 43:23 Transitioning GTM Strategies from SaaS to AI 47:29 The End of Specialization: Collapsing GTM Roles 51:12 Solving GTM Inefficiency by Increasing Selling Time 56:50 How to Pilot the Consolidated "Ninja AE" Role 01:04:29 Designing Organizations for Rainmakers vs. Average Reps 01:08:01 Mental Health, Gratitude, and Closing Thoughts  

Commenting is up 24% quarter over quarter on LinkedIn.That number matters more than most people realize.It tells us three very clear things about what's actually working right now.First:- People are hungry for thoughtful, meaningful conversations.- Quick takes and surface-level posts get seen.- But content that makes people think is what gets talked about.Second:- Who you connect with matters more than how many people you connect with.- When your network is aligned with your ICP or true business allies, engagement becomes natural instead of forced.Third:- Thought leadership and educational content win when it's created for a specific audience.- Generic content gets scrolled past.- Content that speaks directly to your ICP invites comments, discussion, and real relationships.Here's the takeaway most people miss:Visibility isn't the goal anymore.Conversation is.If you want more reach, more trust, and more inbound opportunities, stop chasing volume and start building dialogue with the right people.That's what this episode breaks down step by step.Don't forget to register for our LinkedIn workshop here:https://www.thetimetogrow.com/AtoEonLinkedinWorkshop