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The first business Joe Wechsler bought had $280k of SDE. Seven years later, he runs a fund with $50m of buying power.Register for the webinar: Franchising for the ETA Buyer: Resales, Roll-Ups, and Real Deals - Thu, June 4 - https://bit.ly/4vnGP5uTopics in Joe's interview:Background in management consultingInspired by Rich Dad Poor Dad to own assetsJoining an early cohort of the Acquisition LabSearching is more fun with a partnerFirst deal died 10 days before closingDiscovering employees had never been paid overtimeTotal office staff turnover in first 4 monthsAcquiring 4 diverse businessesLaunching a $25M equity fund with 5 partnersIt's all about the peopleReferences and how to contact Joe:LinkedInBlueline VenturesWho by Geoff Smart and Randy StreetRich Dad, Poor Dad by Richard T. KiyosakiGet a free review of your books & financial ops from System Six (a $500 value):Book a call with Tim or hello@systemsix.com and mention Acquiring MindsDownload the New CEO's Guide to Human Resources from Aspen HR:From this page or contact jenny@aspenhr.comWork with an SBA loan team focused exclusively on helping entrepreneurs buy businesses:Pioneer Capital AdvisoryConnect with Acquiring Minds:See past + future interviews on the YouTube channelConnect with host Will Smith on LinkedInFollow Will on TwitterEdited by Anton Rohozov and produced by Pam Cameron
SummaryInnovation isn't a lightning bolt, it's a process. That's the message threaded throughout the latest episode of the Startup Junkies podcast, where Eva Fast, director of the University of Arkansas MSPI program, joined hosts Daniel Koonce and Caleb Talley for a deep dive into product innovation, entrepreneurial mindsets, and the realities behind those famed “aha” moments.Drawing from her upbringing in Kenya and extensive academic career, Eva breaks the myth that innovation is a singular, sudden event. Instead, she describes it as a gradual journey shaped by diverse perspectives and continuous exposure to new ideas. Her research, inspired by Steven Johnson's "Where Good Ideas Come From," reveals that creativity blossoms over time and thrives within vibrant networks.Listeners will hear how the MSPI program acts as a bridge, connecting technical, business, and human elements to equip students for both startup ventures and corporate innovation roles. Whether you're a hands-on entrepreneur or an aspiring intrapreneur, the program's structure, mentorship, and hands-on challenges offer room for all innovation styles.Eva also spotlights the rising influence of AI, sharing how tools are accelerating everything from MVP launches to capstone projects. The conversation closes with practical advice: be curious, take action, and never underestimate the value of diverse experiences. For those craving real perspectives on what it takes to move from idea to impact, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in today!Show Notes(00:00) Eva's Childhood in Kenya(05:12) Building Student Confidence and Skills(08:16) Misconceptions About Innovation Process(13:05) Discussing MVP Deployment Strategies(15:37) Mentorship and Networking Benefits(19:30) Innovative Teaching Methods(25:36) Taking Action Through EntrepreneurshipLinksDaniel KoonceCaleb TalleyStartup JunkieStartup Junkie YouTubeEva FastMaster of Science in Product Innovation (MSPI) at University of Arkansas
Text us your thoughts on the episode or the show!Today, most teams aren't just struggling to build their AI strategies. The real struggle begins when they try to execute their strategies. In this episode of Ops Cast, host Michael Hartmann sits down with David York, Chief AI and Innovation Officer at Helix CXM, to get practical answers about what it really takes for GTM organizations to move from talking about AI to operationalizing it.David has spent years working at the intersection of marketing operations, RevOps, automation, and AI transformation. Together, he and Michael discovered an uncomfortable truth about how most teams are already overwhelmed by manual work, fragmented processes, shadow systems, and operational debt. Piling "figure out AI" on top of all that creates more chaos. In this conversation, you'll hear:Why the gap between AI strategy and implementation is so hard to closeWhat operational excellence actually looks like in practice, and why it has to come firstWhy mapping how work gets done today is the critical first step before introducing AIThe real difference between automation and "automation plus intelligence"How to identify low-risk, high-value AI use cases (like partially manual lead routing) versus harder onesThe hidden costs teams underestimate: tooling, LLM costs, maintenance, and human monitoringWhere human judgment is still absolutely requiredPractical advice on where to start if you're feeling overwhelmed by AI pressure right nowWhether you lead a scrappy SMB or a specialized team inside a large enterprise, this is a grounded discussion about the reality of AI in modern GTM, beyond the hype and the LinkedIn hot takes.David also published a new book this week, AI-Powered Growth: A 7-Step Adoption and Transformation Framework, which goes deeper into how Marketing Ops leaders can systematically prioritize and operationalize AI initiatives. Grab a copy here: https://www.amazon.com/AI-Powered-Growth-7-Step-Adoption-Transformation/dp/B0H2QCZG5M/Enjoy the episode!Episode Brought to You By MO Pros The #1 Community for Marketing Operations Professionals MarketingOps.com is curating the GTM Ops Track at Demand & Expand (May 19-20, San Francisco) - the premier B2B marketing event featuring 600+ practitioners sharing real solutions to real problems. Use code MOPS20 for 20% off tickets, or get 35-50% off as a MarketingOps.com member. Learn more at demandandexpand.com.Support the show
Meghann Butcher built RepSpark, a B2B wholesale e-commerce platform now moving over a billion dollars a year, without a single line of tech on her resume.She grew up in her dad's apparel and footwear business, hanging around the warehouse at five years old. At 27, when her father's order-entry tool started catching on with independent sales reps, he asked if she wanted to run with it. She said yes, and bootstrapped it from there.In this conversation, Meghann and I get into how a psychology and communications major became the product visionary for a software company, why she still leans on empathy over technical skill to lead, and how staying close to customer pain points built a platform now used by nearly 100,000 retailers.We also talk about being a mom of three while running a growing company, building a drama-free culture, and what it actually takes to scale a bootstrapped business on your own terms.Tune in for a real look at building something durable without the usual playbook.
As a South African in the US, Justus Luttig had to get creative to search then buy 2 trades businesses at the same time.Register for the webinar: New $10m Limit for SBA Loans: What You Need to Know - TODAY!! - https://bit.ly/4v3zKXhTopics in Justus's interview: Growing up on a cattle ranch in South AfricaDisillusioned with the venture capital bubblePerception of white collar work as “the dream”Meeting successful owners of blue-collar businessesBig deal failure on his birthdayStructuring a deal without the SBAChallenges of searching on an H1B visaMerging an HVAC with a plumbing businessThe magic happens when you leave your deskAcquiring during the slow seasonReferences and how to contact Justus:LinkedInCopeland Home ServicesThe ecosystem for serious acquisition entrepreneurs—education, capital, community, and post-close support to buy and grow a business:The Acquisition LabGet complimentary due diligence on your acquisition's insurance & benefits program:Oberle Risk Strategies - Search Fund TeamDownload the New CEO's Guide to Human Resources from Aspen HR:From this page or contact jenny@aspenhr.comConnect with Acquiring Minds:See past + future interviews on the YouTube channelConnect with host Will Smith on LinkedInFollow Will on TwitterEdited by Anton Rohozov and produced by Pam Cameron
Most organizations treat AI adoption as a technology rollout. However, the ones gaining traction treat it as a leadership and culture challenge. In this episode of #shifthappens, Monica French, USA SMB Director at Microsoft, shares what she's hearing directly from small business leaders navigating AI — and why the human side of adoption is where most initiatives either accelerate or stall. Monica draws on frontline conversations with SMB founders, MSP partners, and her own career pivoting from traditional banking to fintech to explain why experiential learning outperforms passive training, why the chief human resource officer (CHRO) belongs at the AI table alongside the chief technology officer (CTO), and how lightweight governance can coexist with early experimentation. She also unpacks the gap between executive ambition and employee readiness — and what leaders can do to close it.
The 2026 Verizon DBIR is here — and one finding changes the conversation around cyber risk.For years, the industry has focused on identity as the primary attack surface. But according to the latest Data Breach Investigations Report, vulnerability exploitation has now overtaken credential abuse as the most common initial access vector in breaches.In this episode of Reimagining Cyber, Tyler Moffitt breaks down what the report really means for defenders, MSPs, and SMBs. He explores why attackers are moving faster than patch cycles, how AI is accelerating both exploitation and phishing, and why “identity vs. patching” is the wrong debate.He also unpacks:Why vulnerability exploitation surged to the top attack vectorHow AI is compressing the timeline from disclosure to attackWhy ransomware still dominates breach outcomesThe growing role of third-party and supply-chain riskWhy SMBs struggle most with patch management and visibilityPractical steps organizations should prioritize right nowWhat MSPs should be telling customers after this year's DBIRKey takeaway:“Identity is the new perimeter, but vulnerability management is still the unlocked window.”If you work in cybersecurity, IT, risk management, or support SMB environments, this episode delivers practical insight into where attackers are succeeding — and what organizations need to do next.#CyberSecurity #DBIR #Ransomware #PatchManagement #IdentitySecurity #AI #MSP #CyberRisk #VerizonDBIR #InfosecAs featured on Million Podcasts' Best 100 Cybersecurity Podcasts Top 50 Chief Information Security Officer CISO Podcasts Top 70 Security Hacking PodcastsThis list is the most comprehensive ranking of Cyber Security Podcasts online and we are honoured to feature amongst the best!Follow or subscribe to the show on your preferred podcast platform.Share the show with others in the cybersecurity world.Get in touch via reimaginingcyber@gmail.com
Owner.com is approaching $100M ARR selling to independent restaurants and their GTM team is producing numbers that shouldn't be possible. $150K AEs closing $2M+ ARR per year. Outbound BDRs generating $100K in closed-won ARR per BDR per month. 4X the ARR per rep compared to direct competitors. None of that happens by accident. In this session, Kyle Norton, CRO at Owner.com, breaks down the exact AI-driven GTM playbook that got them there, including 5 decisions he believes every SaaS company needs to make right now before the gap between AI-native and AI-curious companies becomes impossible to close. What you'll learn: 1. Centralized vs. decentralized AI: why letting a thousand flowers bloom is probably killing your results 2. Build vs. buy: the 5-question framework (hint: buy your infrastructure, build your intelligence) 3. The AI sophistication ladder — Levels 0 through 4, where most companies are stuck, and exactly how to move up 4. The "5 P" prioritization framework for deciding which AI projects to tackle first 5. Agentic vs. assistive: how to think about human-in-the-loop and why chaining too many generative steps is the #1 cause of AI slop 6. Why your personal compounding AI stack is your most underrated competitive asset This isn't theory. This is what $100M ARR in a notoriously difficult SMB market actually looks like when you go all-in on applied AI.
Brent's been hacking smart speakers, Wes has a surprise, and Chris gives up on OpenClaw.Sponsored By:Jupiter Party Annual Membership: Put your support on automatic with our annual plan, and get one month of membership for free!Managed Nebula: Meet Managed Nebula from Defined Networking. A decentralized VPN built on the open-source Nebula platform that we love.Support LINUX UnpluggedLinks:ConnecTen Internet — Get $35 off your order total with Jupiter35
David Graf went after a business that had sat on the market, acquiring $750k of EBITDA for 2.7x. It's going well.Register for the webinars: Negotiating Working Capital in SMB Acquisitions - TOMORROW!! - https://bit.ly/4a2ozGeNew $10m Limit for SBA Loans: What You Need to Know - Thu, May 28 - https://bit.ly/49j3V4tTopics in David's interview: Drive to earn money as a kidChoosing to skip business schoolAdvantages of acquiring in TexasPreparing his case to convince his wifeWorking full time while searchingGrowth is often underpricedWholesaling real estate he didn't wantHow to decide whether to keep an employeeJoining a group for manufacturing ownersNear-crisis days before closingReferences and how to contact David:LinkedInDanhardRand LarsenScalepathGet a Grip by Mike PatonWork with an SBA loan team focused exclusively on helping entrepreneurs buy businesses:Pioneer Capital AdvisoryGet a complimentary IT audit for acquisition diligence or post-close transition.Visit inzotechnologies.com/eta.Get a free review of your books & financial ops from System Six (a $500 value):Book a call with Tim or hello@systemsix.com and mention Acquiring MindsConnect with Acquiring Minds:See past + future interviews on the YouTube channelConnect with host Will Smith on LinkedInFollow Will on TwitterEdited by Anton Rohozov and produced by Pam Cameron
How much business are you losing simply because you're not staying in consistent contact with your audience? Most companies don't have a sales problem—they have a follow-up problem. And follow-up isn't about chasing people…it's about staying top of mind with value, relevance, and consistency. That's why my interview with Smita Wadhawan, CMO of Constant Contact, on the THINK Business – What Are You Good At? series hit on a hard truth—consistency is the new marketing advantage. Here are 5 takeaways that stood out: ✅ Mindshare → Market Share People can't buy from you if they forget you exist. Marketing isn't optional—it's oxygen. ✅ Consistency builds trust Trust isn't built in a moment—it's built in the follow-up moments people rarely do. ✅ Simple wins Customers don't want clever. They want clear. They want fast. They want relevant. ✅ Start now—then scale Stop overthinking platforms, funnels, or brand perfection. Start small. Ship. Learn. Improve. ✅ AI is here to help, not replace Use AI to automate repetitive work—so you can stay human where it matters most. Smita Wadhawan Verma Global Chief Marketing Officer | Top 50 CMO | PayPal | Intuit | GoDaddy | Visa | SaaS | HealthTech | FinTech Award-winning Chief Marketing Officer with experience at GoDaddy, PayPal, Intuit, VISA, and SimplePractice — across SMB/consumer, SaaS, HealthTech, and FinTech. Global teams and global leadership at EcoVadis. Scaled and led businesses from a mid-size company to a $32B established brand, with budgets up to $175M. Expertise in growth marketing, product marketing, B2B and B2C marketing, lifecycle marketing, PR and comms. Smita has built and led teams of 150+ people in highly matrixed, cross-functional organizations across the US, Europe, Africa, Japan and India. She has partnered with top agencies like Koto, Instrument, Razorfish, TBWA, Highwire PR — and managed award-winning internal creative teams. Under Smita's leadership, her teams have won Digiday Awards and several Webby Award nominations. Smita is well known as a culture champion and recognized as a highly influential and inclusive C-Suite leader who can inspire teams to deliver outstanding results. Recognized as a 2024 Top 50 CMO in the US. Connect with Jon Dwoskin: Twitter: @jdwoskin Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.dwoskin Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thejondwoskinexperience Website: https://jondwoskin.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jondwoskin Email: jon@jondwoskin.com Get Jon's Book: The Think Big Movement: Grow your business big. Very Big! Connect with Jeff Gunsberg:Website: https://title-connect.com Connect with Smita Wadhawan:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/smitawadhawan/ *E - explicit language may be used in this podcast.
SummaryWhat happens when passion for storytelling meets the entrepreneurial spirit? In this episode of the Startup Junkies podcast, Danielle Keller, media entrepreneur, award-winning podcaster, and editor-in-chief of Northwest Arkansas's beloved Peekaboo magazine, joins Daniel Koonce, Caleb Talley, and Ty Steele for a conversation packed with inspiration, nostalgia, and the realities of building community through storytelling.Danielle shares her fascinating career journey, from her beginnings in California writing for school papers, through a detour in higher education, to diving fearlessly into documentary film, video production, and ultimately acquiring and revitalizing Peekaboo magazine. She details how Peekaboo, once a crucial parental resource before the rise of social media, became a passion project resurrected through grit, research, and community demand. The print magazine's unique sensory experience illustrates the hunger for tangible connections in a digital age.Listeners will delight in anecdotes about local mascot Ozzy the Ozark Fox, created by Danielle's daughter, and how family, authenticity, and real community voices shape every issue. The episode highlights the importance of collaboration, adaptability, and embracing both print and digital platforms as Peekaboo grows and evolves.With future visions of podcasts, dynamic web offerings, and newsletters, Danielle reminds us that it's never too late to pursue fresh dreams, amplify others' voices, and savor the present. This episode is a must-listen for entrepreneurs, storytellers, and anyone who believes in the lasting power of local stories!Show Notes(00:00) Danielle's Career Path in Media(04:06) Starting Peekaboo for Parents(09:48) Evaluating Print Magazine Revival(18:10) Creating a Themed Editorial Calendar(20:37) Seasonal Advertising Opportunities(23:07) Expanding Digital Content(33:21) Closing ThoughtsLinksDaniel KoonceCaleb TalleyTy SteeleStartup JunkieStartup Junkie YouTubeDanielle KellerPeekaboo Magazine
Truc Nguyen has acquired 2 nail salons, an overlooked but fragmented industry where businesses trade at low multiples.Register for the webinar:Negotiating Working Capital in SMB Acquisitions - Tue, May 26 - https://bit.ly/4eQfCTRTopics in Truc's interview:Why she chose the nail salon industryHer vision for a rollupAnalyzing a current nail salon business listingLow multiples in the nail spaceBargaining power of good nail techsSquare footage and number of chairs mattersDocumenting SOPs for her first salonStaffing a 7-day-a-week businessCreating a great company cultureThe changing face of nail salonsReferences and how to contact Truc:LinkedInSarah Romer on Acquiring Minds: How to Buy a Salon as an Industry Outsider (and Survive)Get complimentary due diligence on your acquisition's insurance & benefits program:Oberle Risk Strategies - Search Fund TeamWork with an SBA loan team focused exclusively on helping entrepreneurs buy businesses:Pioneer Capital AdvisoryThe ecosystem for serious acquisition entrepreneurs—education, capital, community, and post-close support to buy and grow a business:The Acquisition LabConnect with Acquiring Minds:See past + future interviews on the YouTube channelConnect with host Will Smith on LinkedInFollow Will on TwitterEdited by Anton Rohozov and produced by Pam Cameron
The latest In Touch With iOS with Dave he is joined by Chuck Joiner, Jeff Gamet, Eric Bolden, Marty Jencius, Guy Serle. This week on In Touch With iOS, the panel dives into Apple's 26.5 updates across iPhone, iPad, Mac, Vision Pro, Watch, TV, and HomePod, including major security fixes, encrypted RCS messaging, and enterprise Mac improvements. The crew also discusses a frustrating macOS USB bug, Bartender 6's notch features, Chrome secretly downloading a 4GB AI file, and privacy-focused browser alternatives like Helium. Plus, MacBook Neo demand continues to surge, Intel may build future Apple chips, Apple's Steve Jobs coin instantly sells out, and Ted Lasso's Danny Rojas heads into professional soccer training. The show notes are at InTouchwithiOS.com Direct Link to Audio Links to our Show Give us a review on Apple Podcasts! CLICK HERE we would really appreciate it! Click this link Buy me a Coffee to support the show we would really appreciate it. intouchwithios.com/coffee Another way to support the show is to become a Patreon member patreon.com/intouchwithios Website: In Touch With iOS YouTube Channel In Touch with iOS Magazine on Flipboard Facebook Page BlueSky Mastodon X Instagram Threads Summary In episode 423 of In Touch With iOS, Dave Ginsburg is joined by Jeff Gamet, Chuck Joiner, Guy Serle, Marty Jencius, and Eric Bolden for a packed discussion covering Apple's latest 26.5 software updates, MacBook Neo demand, Vision Pro developments, browser privacy concerns, and more. The panel starts with Apple's 26.5 updates across iPhone, iPad, Mac, Vision Pro, Apple Watch, Apple TV, and HomePod. The group discusses bug fixes, security improvements, wallpaper updates, and Apple's move to allow longer-term app subscriptions with monthly payment options. The conversation highlights Apple's new end-to-end encrypted RCS messaging support and automatic pairing for Magic accessories on iPad after connecting via USB. The panel also emphasizes the importance of installing the updates because of the large number of security vulnerabilities Apple patched, including WebKit exploits and kernel-related issues. Vision Pro discussion includes reactions to visionOS 26.5, subtle under-the-hood improvements, and excitement around a new spatial air hockey game coming soon to the platform. Marty, Eric, and Dave discuss arcade-style air hockey in immersive spatial computing complete with sound effects and airflow simulation. On the Mac side, Jeff Gamet details a frustrating USB accessory issue introduced after updating to macOS 26.5. Wired accessories including keyboards, Stream Decks, cameras, and USB hubs stopped functioning until security settings were adjusted under Privacy & Security. The discussion expands into Apple's enterprise-focused fixes, SMB networking bugs, black-screen startup issues, and unexpected restarts on newer Macs. The panel also explores several Mac utilities and productivity tools. Jeff discusses Bartender 6 and Bartender Pro, including new notch-focused "Top Shelf" features that turn the MacBook notch into a Dynamic Island-style productivity area. The group also looks at NextPad++, an AI-assisted Mac port inspired by Notepad++, and debates whether AI-generated software development is moving too fast. BBEdit also gets praise as a long-standing favorite text editor for Mac users. Browser privacy becomes another major topic after reports surfaced that Google Chrome quietly downloaded a hidden 4GB AI-related file to Macs. The panel discusses privacy concerns surrounding Chrome, Google's tracking reputation, and alternatives including Firefox, Edge, Safari, and Helium, a Chromium-based browser Jeff recommends because of its strong privacy protections and plugin compatibility. The conversation then shifts to Apple hardware news with improving MacBook Neo availability and Apple reportedly increasing A18 Pro chip orders to meet overwhelming demand. The panel debates Apple's supply chain strategy and whether Apple underestimated how successful the $599 MacBook Neo would become. Additional stories include a new joint satellite venture between AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile aimed at improving iPhone connectivity in dead zones, Intel reportedly testing fabrication of future Apple chips, and reactions to the Steve Jobs commemorative U.S. dollar coin that sold out in minutes. The panel closes with a fun discussion about Ted Lasso actor Cristo Fernández training with a professional soccer team after playing Danny Rojas on the hit Apple TV+ series. Topics and Links In Touch With Vision Pro this week. Apple Releases visionOS 26.5 visionOS 26.5 bug fix update is here for Apple Vision Pro users visionOS 26.5 Release Notes | Apple Developer Documentation Pre-Order Air Hockey: Spatial Arena for Vision Pro : r/VisionPro Beta this week. iOS 26.5 was released to public this week Apple Releases iOS 26.5 and iPadOS 26.5 With End-to-End Encrypted RCS, New Wallpaper, and Maps Updates Apple releases iPadOS 26.5 with new wallpapers and Messages upgrades Apple Releases watchOS 26.5 With New Pride Luminance Watch Face Apple Releases tvOS 26.5 Apple Releases HomePod Software 26.5 Apple's iOS 26.5 Update Patches More Than 50 Security Flaws iPhone-Android RCS Conversations Are End-to-End Encrypted in iOS 26.5 Ads Aren't in the Apple Maps App Yet, But They're Coming Soon Apple rolls out iOS 16.7.16 and iOS 15.8.8 for older iPhones with important security fixes iOS 18.7.9 and iPadOS 18.7.9 now available for older iPhone and iPad In Touch With Mac this week macOS Tahoe 26.5 Now Available macOS 15.7.7 and 14.8.7 released alongside Apple's latest software updates Jeff Gamet: How I Fixed macOS 26.5 Failing to Talk to My USB Devices What's new for enterprise in macOS Tahoe 26,5 Notepad++ Mac Port Renamed Nextpad++ After Trademark Row Bartender Pro Brings Widgets, Clipboard, and File Storage to the MacBook Notch DockDoor Stop Chrome Browser From Downloading a Hidden 4GB AI File Jeff recommends Helium Browser MacBook Neo Delivery Dates Improve Following New A18 Pro Chip Orders Other Topics Unexpected US carrier joint venture fires up to expand iPhone cell coverage Steve Jobs U.S. Commemorative $1 Coin Goes on Sale Report: Intel is Testing Production of Some iPhone, iPad, and Mac Chips - MacRumors News Ted Lasso actor who played Dani Rojas is now a professional soccer player Announcements Macstock X is here celebrating its 10th anniversary ! Dave, Chuck, Jeff, Marty, and Jill are all speaking this year!. With Three Full Days of expert-led Presentations and Workshops, Macstock's sessions are crammed full of productivity-enhancing content. NEW this year is a partnership with sponsor Ecamm. Ecamm Creator Camp: Mac Edition on July 9, 2026 there are only 100 tickets available for the bundle. There are 2 passes available: Macstock weekend pass July 10,11,12, 2026 or the Macstock Ecamm Bundle starting July 9 (only 100 tickets available) Come join us. Register HERE and use our offer code INTOUCH to save $50 Our Host Dave Ginsburg is an IT professional supporting Mac, iOS and Windows users and shares his wealth of knowledge of iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, Apple TV and related technologies. Visit the YouTube channel https://youtube.com/intouchwithios follow him on Mastodon @daveg65, , BlueSky @daveg65 and the show @intouchwithios Our Panel Jeff Gamet is a podcaster, technology blogger, artist, and author. Previously, he was The Mac Observer's managing editor, and Smile's TextExpander Evangelist. You can find him on Mastadon @jgamet Pixelfed @jgamet@pixelfed.social and Bluesky @jgamet.bsky.social Podcasts The Context Machine Podcast Retro Rewatch Retro Rewatch His YouTube channel https://youtube.com/jgamet and his blogs are jeffgamet.com and freshbrewedtales.com Marty Jencius, Ph.D., is a professor of counselor education at Kent State University, where he researches, writes, and trains about using technology in teaching and mental health practice. His podcasts include Vision Pro Files, The Tech Savvy Professor and Circular Firing Squad Podcast. Find him at jencius@mastodon.social https://thepodtalk.net Eric Bolden is into macOS, plants, sci-fi, food, and is a rural internet supporter. You can connect with him by email at eabolden@mac.com, on Mastodon at @eabolden@techhub.social, on his blog, Trending At Work, and as co-host on The Vision ProFiles podcast. Jill McKinley works in enterprise software, server administration, and IT A lifelong tech enthusiast, she started her career with Windows but is now an avid Apple fan. Beyond technology, she shares her insights on nature, faith, and personal growth through her podcasts—Buzz Blossom & Squeak, Start with Small Steps, and The Bible in Small Steps. Watch her content on YouTube at @startwithsmallsteps and follow her on X @schmern. Find all her work at http://jillfromthenorthwoods.com Chuck Joiner is the host of MacVoices and hosts video podcasts with influential members of the Apple community. Make sure to visit macvoices.com and subscribe to his podcast. You can follow him on Twitter @chuckjoiner and join his MacVoices Facebook group. Guy Serle is one of the hosts of the new The Gmen Show along with GazMaz and email GMenshow@icloud.com @MacParrot and @VertShark on X Vertshark on YouTube, Google Voice +1 Area code 703-828-4677
Security operations for MSPs are undergoing a structural shift from simply deploying additional tools to establishing a liability-focused accountability model, where the ability to provide operational evidence of controls is becoming as critical as the tools themselves. This shift is catalyzed by corporate insurance, procurement, and third-party verification structures—such as those cited by WatchGuard, Assurix, and the NIST AI cybersecurity overlays—demanding verifiable security outcomes and alignment with external standards, rather than relying on provider assertions alone. Survey data referenced from Cybersmart and Beta News reveals that 75% of MSPs experienced at least one breach in the past year, while 54% endured multiple incidents; concurrently, SMB buyers state security is a top priority, but only 13% of microbusinesses operate proactively. According to WatchGuard's global survey of 842 professionals, 94% of clients using dedicated MSPs feel adequately protected, yet 58% indicate intent to change providers within three years—highlighting a disconnect between perceived and delivered value. The emergence of Assurixs' live MSP Trustmark, based on 64 operational controls, further formalizes evidence requirements as market prerequisites. These dynamics are reinforced by shifts in insurer behavior and regulatory alignment. Huntress and Acrisure are collectively rolling out a cyber insurance package contingent on adoption of Huntress's managed detection and response, explicitly tying coverage eligibility to verifiable provider-side controls. The maturing of NIST's AI cybersecurity overlays introduces new standardized control checklists likely to become operational requirements. Additionally, reports from Omdia and MSP Channel Insights note that vendor ecosystems are now rewarded for integrating security as an outcome with automation and multi-tenant integration—reflecting market demand for reliable, defensible evidence of controls. For MSPs and IT leaders, these developments drive the need to restructure contracts to clearly delineate evidence obligations, manage liability exposure, and price evidence production as a formal deliverable rather than as unreimbursed support. Failing to do so risks absorbing unfunded post-incident evidence work, margin erosion, and loss of control over the security value conversation. Operationally, maintaining live accreditations, standing up a formal evidence management function, and explicitly excluding unmanaged SaaS, identity, and AI workflows from baseline service tiers are becoming necessary to maintain profitability and accountability. 00:00 Breach, Then Switch 04:52 SaaS Blind Spot 07:16 Prove or Pay 10:24 Why Do We Care? Supported by: Zero Networks HaloPSA
The Great Talent Redistribution: Where is Talent Actually Going in 2026 and beyond? Is the start-up compensation model broken? How about big Big Tech? How about non-tech small & medium businesses? What is happening to talent, going forward? This and many other topics in this episode of Tech Deciphered. Navigation: Intro The Broken Contract? The Great Unbundling The Three (?) Destinations Alternative Cap Tables, Alternative Compensation Models Investor Landscape Fragmentation Operator Playbook and Predictions Conclusion Our co-hosts: Bertrand Schmitt, Entrepreneur in Residence at Red River West, co-founder of App Annie / Data.ai, business angel, advisor to startups and VC funds, @bschmitt Nuno Goncalves Pedro, Investor, Managing Partner, Founder at Chamaeleon, @ngpedro Our show: Tech DECIPHERED brings you the Entrepreneur and Investor views on Big Tech, VC and Start-up news, opinion pieces and research. We decipher their meaning, and add inside knowledge and context. Being nerds, we also discuss the latest gadgets and pop culture news Subscribe To Our Podcast Nuno Goncalves Pedro Introduction Welcome to episode 77 of Tech Deciphered. This episode will focus on the great talent redistribution. Where’s talent actually going in 2026 and beyond? The Silicon Valley deal of the last 30 years, very low salary, stock options, you will either sell for a ton of money or IPO, and everyone gets rich, is seemingly broken. Or is it really? The dominant narrative says the tech middle class is dying. We disagree. There is obviously a lot of stuff going on whereby big tech is partially barbelling. There’s a superstar concentration on the top. There’s a bit of a seemingly allowing of the belly. We’ll come back to that. We don’t quite believe that is totally true. There’s a collapse at entry level. The belly is migrating into three, potentially even more, very different destinations: AI native startups, human-verified premium businesses, and the read the industrialized middle of the S&P 500 and SMB world. Each has its own cap table, each will have its own compensation model, and each will have its own investor profile. In some ways, this is the third episode in our Reset trilogy. We started with episode 75 on the SaaS-apocalypse. We talked about the great private capital reset in episode 76, and now we talk about talent redistributions. Bertrand, exciting times, not always positive times. Bertrand Schmitt Yeah, it’s exciting times because it’s a time of change. Of course, we have the doomsayers. If you listen to Dario Amodei of Anthropic, every white-collar job on Earth is going to disappear. I think I strongly disagree, and I suppose you too as well, we strongly disagree. It’s going to be more of a redistribution. If you look at the history of technology, this is what always happened. We forget how many jobs have disappeared over the past 150 years. We move from a time of 150 years ago. People were mostly in agriculture. Then you had a lot of weird jobs that disappeared from people transporting water to people bringing ice from the pools to people doing the job of computers. People forget that computer was a title given to human beings. We’re doing calculations. Then, of course, secretory jobs in the ’80s, ’90s, where suddenly anyone can type using a word processor, the rise of Excel, that sort of stuff. Many things have changed. Some jobs have indeed disappeared. Some jobs have totally transformed. Where you do these jobs have changed. I think we are at a similar stage where, thanks to AI, and I would say for now, or at least the rise of AI coding, there is a dramatic change happening. I don’t think it means that people will be without a job. It just means, from my perspective, that jobs are changing. You are not just doing a lowly coding level task that actually indeed could be replaced, but you are going to have more of builder type of mindset, a product manager type of mindset going forward. We also expect that the distribution of jobs, depending on the type of business, will be quite different. Nuno Goncalves Pedro The Broken Contract? Maybe let’s reset a little bit to the broken contract, or if it’s really a broken contract. There’s been this image in technology and tech that basically you get paid very little to work in tech. You get a bunch of stock options. The earlier you are in the company, the higher the level of stock option grants you get. Then you make a ton of money at some point because the company will either sell or IPO, and that’s heard of it. Obviously, there’s a lot of movements happening right now that are changing how these dynamics work. The first part is obviously AI, and in some ways, AI is shrinking companies. It’s not unheard of that companies with as little as four or five people reach 50 million in ARR. There’s companies with one person that have gotten bought for hundreds of millions of dollars or billion of dollars. Obviously, things are moving very, very fast, and therefore, there isn’t a large employee cap table. How would you share the upside? Would you actually give a couple of percentage points to an early employee rather than your 0.2-0.5% kind of thing for early employees? The second part is a little bit the other side of the table, which is the IPO market is seemingly in a drought. There’s not much happening in IPOs. Maybe 2026, at some point, there will be an unlock, but right now, it’s seemingly difficult to get your upside. Even if you’re an employee, you have to wait a long time. The median time of IPO has climbed over 10, 11 years, the longest in over a decade. Basically, not only you have to wait a long time as if there is an IPO drought, like we might be going through right now, when do I actually get my cash back? Unless the company gets bought, maybe there are secondary transactions along the way, maybe there’s something else. But obviously there’s a little bit of a reduction and lowering of the upside seemingly for this contract and for this place. The easy conclusion that I think many are taking is, because of all of this and all the layoffs that are happening, even in big tech, that serve the tech middle class is dying, that basically AI screwing the workers, et cetera, there’s also a lot of discussion that even it might be affecting the entry-level jobs as well. Everyone coming out of undergrad right now can’t get a job, et cetera. There’s this doomsday scenario that you’re alluding to that everything is changing. We have a slightly different perspective. We think there’s a realignment of market. In layoffs, there was a lot of layoffs that were warranted. Big tech, in particular, had actually hoarded a lot of engineering capacity over the last decade or so. There’s a little bit of a realignment that needed to happen in any case. When everyone’s saying, “Well, AI is compressing everything,” well, it’s compressing right now, but we don’t think actually it’s going to compress over time. You’ll still need engineering and science talent to come on board for you to be able to scale up. It’s not like AI is going to take care of everything and teams are going to be five people for companies that are worth a trillion dollars. That’s not happening. Today’s thesis, I think a little bit of this doomsday scenario needs to be seen with a more nuanced lens. I think that’s how we’re framing today’s episode, that there’s a bit of a nuance, there are some extremes happening. We’re going to talk about those extremes, but ultimately, it’s not quite as simple as saying that the tech middle class is disappearing in early jobs are going to be a thing of the past. Bertrand Schmitt At the same time, what you started with is true. I mean, that 50 million ARR company, just five people. At a bigger scale, that’s exactly the matrix for Anthropic. They have reached a stage where they are at a range of 12 million ARR per staff per employee. It’s metrics that are definitely never seen before. I don’t think any company raised to this level. Best in class, best run companies, one, two million per employees. I mean, that was your target if you can make it. We are definitely in a different game. But I think what matters at the end of the day, and that’s what we’re arguing, is that you have to see the big pictures. Yes, some positions might disappear inside some companies, but some other positions will be created in other companies. Usually, what people do is keep talking about the jobs who disappear and not looking at the bigger picture of jobs that are being created as well. What is true, and I think you alluded to that, is that the big tech the past 10, 15 years had some strategy of hoarding talent in a war where having the best talented people will make the difference in numbers, will make the difference between winning or losing. The Google of the world, the Microsoft of the world, the Amazon of the world, they were hoarding talent. They would try to make sure that they might not have such needs in talented number of people. But if they have the talent, it means their competitors didn’t have the talent. It means that the startup trying to reach scale couldn’t pay the giant salaries that the Google of the world were paying. There was definitely some hoarding. But it went so far in the 2020, 2021, that I think since then there has been a coming back to normal. There is also now in 2026, the recognition that it’s not true anymore. Yes, talent can be very valuable, but there is now a bigger and bigger gap between the extremely talented versus the rest that are merely talented because of AI. AI is able to replace at scale your software engineers, your software managers. I would say it’s quite new. I don’t think it was true a year ago. We’re really talking about a recent dramatic change in what can be achieved thanks to AI. We can see most of the big AI companies are moving to coding. It was started by Anthropic as a trend, OpenAI has followed through. Obviously, the Cursor of the world existed before, but they were not as successful. All the Chinese open-source models are moving very fast to coding optimization the past few weeks. It’s quite an incredible change. I think there is that dramatic change, recognition that coding can be done differently. As a result, we are going to see change in the distribution of jobs. I think it will start from the top because we see the news of the big Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and others who used to hold talented software developers to a change in realization that no, we actually need to invest in AI. We need to invest in compute because compute is going to do the job of most of these people. Therefore, we can’t pay for both at the same time, even us with all our money, we cannot. Wall Street is not going to let us do that. They start by removing a lot of position. I think we see that accelerating, quite frankly. We have only seen the beginning, but in the next 2 years, we see a dramatic shift. But I think my position, I guess yours, and you know as well, is that there will be a lot more opportunities created as well, probably by also entities. Nuno Goncalves Pedro The Great Unbundling Yeah, there will be more opportunities created. The hoarding is just taken also a little bit of a different view. To your point, there’s hoarding of resources, compute, et cetera. But there’s also hoarding of top talent. We are seeing people getting paid, packages all in that could run up to 100 million, in some cases even over 100 million over several years. This is unheard of. I mean, an officer of Meta would make, I don’t know, maybe 20, 25 million a year. It’s like now there are people that are on the top end of AI researchers that are getting paid around that amount just to join some of these companies. There’s a little bit of a different hoarding. It’s very selective hoarding of certain talent. We’ve seen some acqui-hires. We’ve talked about it in previous episodes that are just literally about getting one or two people specifically to come on board. Alexander Wang, again, going to Meta to lead their intelligence labs there. I feel, I don’t know what you feel, but I feel this is a transition moment where there is overpaying for certain talent on the top of the market. At some point, this will stabilize. You can’t keep paying people 100 million over 4 years or something like that across the board. To your point, a lot of this is actually going to scale up quickly also on the AI side. There’s a little bit of a different hoarding happening on the top end, not just the resources, but also of people, which seems to give further this notion of barbell, that there’s two extremes, the haves and have-nots, the super-duper talented people that get paid a ton of money, tens of millions of dollars a year at the very least. Then the emptying of the middle where there’s a ton of tech layoffs going on in some ways, the belly, as they would call it, is being expelled. The middle market, the managers are being fired because there’s nothing to manage. There’s a lot of positions going away. In some cases, you might keep some of the more junior talent, but with a little bit of experience. But even the talent coming out of colleges is not getting hired either. It’s a little bit of a weird thing where there’s hoarding at the top, there’s an emptying of the belly, the middle, and then the early, early, early is also not getting recruited. It’s like what gives? How is this going to look in the future? I agree fully with you, Bertrand, that there’s a migration of this talent, not only to other companies, but also to other jobs. There will be new jobs that will emerge out of this. The DevOps, dev tools market didn’t exist until maybe 20 years ago at scale, and it got created. In some ways, we’re seeing there will be new markets, there will be new roles and new jobs that will be created around engineering teams going forward. We can’t anticipate all of them. But basically, the emptying of the belly is true as it’s happening right now. The low hiring on the early and the top end, getting tons of money. We think this is a transition to something else. There’s the hoarding of engineering in general is coming to an end at momentum. Now it’s time to rightsize teams, to get the right at the table, et cetera, and start figuring out what works and what doesn’t work. We’ve already had some horror stories coming out even from Amazon where they were breaking systems with their use of AI tools, and I’m sure it’s happening across the board. I’m on a board of a company and been tremendously affected by Meta and its algorithms, where basically because of advertising, there have been people served with ads for this specific company where the ad doesn’t match the company, so basic stuff like that. It’s been actually very, very difficult because in some ways, the company goes back to Meta. It’s like, “Hey, dudes, you guys are serving ads that are not even our ads with our copyright and stuff. How does this work?” They’re like, “Oh, it’s AI.” It’s like, “Well, it’s AI but can you give me my money back?” They’re like, “No, we won’t give you money back.” This creates huge issues for companies, for example, that are very dependent on advertising, which obviously there’s a lot of industries that are. They’re actually in production systems at scale. Meta is, I think now, the largest digital advertising in the world. I think they outgrew Google in one of the last quarters. Basically, this has a tremendous effect that systems that are in production at scale are getting inputs and changes driven by AI tooling, and somehow nobody can say what the hell is happening. Again, there will be a reckoning, there will be a redistribution, there will be a rightsizing of teams and an adequacy of teams going forward. I personally think this is a transition period. Bertrand Schmitt I think we are moving from hoarding or software engineering to hoarding the top of the top scientists in AI and hoarding of GPUs, GPUs/data center. For me, it was quite interesting to see the deal of Cursor with xAI, where basically they couldn’t get access to computing resources to run their model. But xAI had, I forgot the exact numbers, but close to half a million GPUs that no one, I mean, “no one was using” because their services are not so successful yet in terms of AI chatbot and the like. Basically, suddenly they are like, “You know what? We control access to resource.” But the new resource is, again, a mix of extremely talented AI engineering or AI scientists versus GPUs/data center. There is this race of controlling boss and everything else is going to be collateral damage. Some examples, I think, are quite interesting. You talk about some example of Amazon, even some production issues. I remember reading a quick post-mortem of one of the issues, and the conclusion was it was AI, definitely part of the issue. But the other part of the issue was AI used by junior engineers. For me, it’s interesting. It shows that actually junior plus AI is actually a danger zone. That’s why many companies are going to be way more careful. “Why do we need the junior people if they are just playing with fire?” I think we go back to that situation of barbell, as you call it. The top talents are extremely valuable because they know how a production system works. They are here to develop better AI systems. But the junior guys playing with fires, yeah, maybe it’s cute in startups, but in a big time production environment, a different story. Nuno Goncalves Pedro There will be a barbell with top-end talent super-mega paid and then mid-level talent that is individual contributors still doing a lot of great work, et cetera. Along the way, a lot of emptying of entry, a lot of emptying of the middle. Where does the talent go? The Three (?) Destinations I think we could say there’s three destinations for this talent. Maybe there’s four, maybe there’s more. Three that we can immediately identify. One is the AI native startup piece, where we have smaller teams that potentially get to a lot of revenue or top line over time, and where the Series Seed is the primary round, where we’re seeing Series Seed being raised of tens of millions of dollars, actually even hundreds of millions of dollars in Series Seed. In some ways, the stars there can get incredible compensations in terms of stock. They will stay for private and selling in secondaries later down the road because there’s so much capital at the table. Actually, in some ways, salaries are very high as well in some of these companies. It’s not like you’re trading off anything. You can get paid a lot of money. If your company at Series Seed for 10 or 15 employees has raised 50-$100 million, you can pay great salaries. In some ways, this is the extreme destination. The AI native startups that can make it is the extreme destination. Now, there aren’t a ton of AI native startups that can raise 50-100 million to 400 million in Series Seed, just to be clear. There’s a handful of hot deals in that space, but that’s one clear destination for top-end talent going through that. In that market, I think that’s one of the destinations. The second one is more what we would call the human-verified premium. It’s more of a play of companies that has still the need of human in the loop, either in terms of development, also in terms of activity, either because go-to markets are very intensive, and so therefore you need to have sales forces, partnership teams, et cetera. Or on the engineering side, it needs to have a lot of customization, integration. Companies are not just going to the, “Oh, you can come in and just apply your AI tooling and somehow magically the systems all work.” there needs to be quite a lot of and work and high touch work in getting stuff done. A significant part of that market, I’m not sure, is super VC investible. Maybe it’s a hybrid of private equity in VC, more PE style in many cases. It’s a PE-hold, sell to someone else market. As we’ve discussed in a previous episode on the SaaS-apocalypse, that hasn’t quite worked out for PEs. Question marks on how that human-verified premium market is going to evolve. But obviously, there’s a lot of work still to be done there, even on the engineering and science side. That’s the second potential destination. Then the third more aggressive destination is the reindustrialized middle companies that have a lot of specificity in going after small and medium businesses, local or regional affectations like ERPs or CRMs for specific markets, et cetera. Those are the three natural destinations. I would add the fourth, which is big tech. I mean, big tech doesn’t magically disappear, and I don’t think it fits neatly into any of these three markets. In some ways, big tech is now looking at the extreme for top talent a little bit like the AI native startup because they can pay. They can pay the 100 million every four years, et cetera. I do think it will typify taxonomically into a fourth type emerging, where, as we discussed, you’ll have top-end individual contributor talent. You’ll have the absolute top-end of the market because they can get paid. Then you’ll start having the emergence of earlier talent that is highly capable, et cetera. That will go back to a bit of a normal distribution in terms of talent on big tech. For me, those are the four destinations that I would put at the table. Bertrand Schmitt For me, big tech moving to big tech, I’m not sure if it’s really a destination. I mean, yes, in some ways it’s a reshuffle between the big tech companies. They are definitely all fighting in some ways for some of the same people. I can see that dramatic shift where big tech has to remove a lot of positions in order to replace by AI. Again, I think at this stage, it’s mostly driven by AI coding. We are still at the beginning because this is brand-new phenomenon that AI coding is so successful at its task. I don’t think it was true even 6 months ago. Some companies, take Anthropic, take OpenAI, are definitely there or close to be there in terms of no more writing of a single line of code by a human, zero. This is, again, 6, 12 months ago. Not true. But now it’s true in a few top companies. Take OpenClaw as well, most successful GitHub project of all time, not a single line written by its author. It would have been impossible. We’re talking about hundreds of thousands of line of code in a few months. It’s impossible to achieve that manually. If you look at the other big tech companies, the Google of the world, the Meta of the world, the Microsoft of the world, they are absolutely not there yet. They are going to be there because they have no choice. It’s you either go fast there or you die. You are not going to be able to survive competitors that are shipping 10, 50, 100 times faster than you are shipping. It’s a life and death situation. All the big tech companies are going to move, and mark my word, in the next 2 years from 10, 20% of AI-written code to 100%. During that transition, the next 2 years max, if you don’t do it in 2 years, you are going to die. Your stock price is going to crash. Then, of course, you will have to make changes. You will have to invest more in GPUs. You will have to invest less in your standard typical software engineer employees. Like you, I’m very optimistic that there are new buckets. AI-native startups definitely will be there. It will be transformational. Human-verified premium, very interesting category. In a way, it will be businesses that are inevitably less scalable through AI, and there is definitely a spot from there. I think the biggest would be the reindustrialized middle SMBs. Most of S&P 500 type of business are going to dramatically offer new software opportunities, new opportunity story to talented software employees because they will need to implement AI in everything they do. They will do it. They will need people who have software engineering knowledge in order to implement these systems. For them, what’s changing dramatically really is that thanks to much cheaper cost as thanks to AI coding, a lot of software projects that they couldn’t afford to do, that they couldn’t imagine doing by themselves, they are able to do it. They will invest in a lot more software capabilities than ever before. That will be a big game changer. And software, very tuned to their business model. There might be less buying of your traditional off-the-shelf SAF software and a lot more investment in a highly custom software by their own team, assisted with AI. I think that would be the part that is most transformed by all of this in a positive way. Nuno Goncalves Pedro Alternative Cap Tables, Alternative Compensation Models This will lead to a very fundamental shift, right back to the broken contract. What does the new contract look like? It looks like alternative cap tables depending on which bucket are you transitioning into. If you’re going into your AI-native bucket, and you’re a top-end talent, you’re like, “Dude, I’m worth 100 million over 4 years, so just compensate me accordingly with a mix of options in the company plus my salary.” If you’re top 1%, you can probably get away with salaries that you’d get anyway at mid-level from 300K, 400K and above, and you can get actually a lot of options already in the company. A lot of this is happening right now. There’s a premium for AI, we know that. There’s a premium for AI at the top end of AI researching, in particular on companies that are doing hardcore research on staff AI engineers, so companies that require actual AI engineering. There is a premium that is significant. It could be as high as 18% over non-AI peers, and it widens actually with seniority, shockingly enough. This is more of an average than anything else. Now, for me, and it’s for debate, but the perspective is this extreme comp will need to compress at some point. There will still be the haves and have-nots paid much better than the have-nots, so to speak, but there will be a compression. The variance can’t be the variance we’re seeing today for absolute top-end talent. That said, there will be variants. We know that big tech for over a decade, decade and a half, for example, in the Bay Area, has been paying a lot of money for director and above levels that used to be the VPs, so a million, a million and a half a year, all in compensations. It’s not unheard of that this will actually increase after this stage. That said, I do think that the compensation extreme that we’re in will get diluted down the middle. It will actually come down at some point. It’s part of where we are today. As we know, it is still a bubble. Bertrand Schmitt Yeah, it’s an interesting point. I think it’s possible. At the same time, that compression coming 2, 3, 5 years. At the same time, we have examples where there is no such compression. Take the top sports players in the world, golfing, basketball, NBA players. There has not really been any compression at all. For me, it’s interesting. If you look at the big tech companies, each being one of this top NBA team, why would such compression happen? As long as they are competing against each other and generating plenty of cash, I think there will be some fair question. We will see. I don’t have a strong opinion, but for me, it’s not a total given. Nuno Goncalves Pedro For me, the shocking thing is the faster AI becomes better, the more that compression will happen, because at some point, it’s like, why do you need the top talent as well? I don’t know. It feels like you’re trying to evolve a system that’s there to replace you. It’s like, “Okay, I’m getting paid 100 million over the next 4 years”, and then you develop something that’s so good that replaces you. Thank you. That’s cool. Bertrand Schmitt That’s a total possibility, yes, because we are in that very unusual market where the game is to only replace yourself and people like yourself. At some point, it is a possibility, I guess this one. Right now, we’re talking about replacing your “average software talent”. In 2 years, could we absolutely replace the absolute best top experts in the world? Probably. I think it’s just that at some point we’ll be reaching the stage where we strictly have no control anymore on our AI systems because no human is able to challenge and understand what’s produced. It’s not just a question of scale anymore. We’re talking about a gap in IQ, basically. Nuno Goncalves Pedro Exactly. It will happen at some point in history. We don’t know exactly when. For the second bucket, the human-verified premium bucket, it’s difficult to see how an HVAC company or an HVAC roll-up of scale or a regional health care platform or high touch go-to-market, B2B, SaaS play, et cetera, for a vertical will compete. At the same end, they have to compete and they will compete. There will be more and more jobs, we believe, for engineering talent in these companies. They’ll have to be more and more AI-enabled themselves. The cash salaries will have to be competitive within the local markets, not necessarily with Silicon Valley. There will be potentially profit sharing and revenue sharing and actual dividends played at the table. The model there on the cap table needs to change a little bit, needs to be probably propped up more on salary and on some way of doing profit sharing or actually having dividends paid to employees and figuring out employee to equity in a more aggressive manner. This is the market that probably was already very attacked, so to speak, or let’s say, occupied by private equity firms. There are still obviously part of that model that would work well. There needs to be a fundamental shift, certainly on the quantum of salary compensation, dividend compensation, profit sharing, and all of that. Then last but not the least, obviously, we had the bucket around basically the reindustrialization of the middle, so everything else, which will take most of the belly that we were talking about. This is probably a poor analogy, the belly fat. It’s not belly fat, it’s people that were doing their jobs that now are getting disrupted. In some ways, that bucket will absorb a lot of that belly, will absorb a lot of talent. The small and medium businesses that Bertrand was saying will need to crucially become more AI, software-enabled by themselves, even with some core stuff and underpinnings that actually might not even require AI in terms of infrastructure platforms. There, you need to get properly paid. Again, how many people do you need in your engineering team if you’re a small business? Probably not a lot. It’s maybe you need one or two people and that’s it. They’ll need to be very nicely paid because they’re running the stuff in the rails. This is probably a market that over time, as AI gets more and more competent, will also be disrupted, but let’s not talk about the disruption to the disruption because otherwise, we’ll stay here the whole day, but certainly a market that has a lot of potential to shift and to absorb a lot of the moments that we’re seeing in terms of layoffs happening in the US in particular. Bertrand Schmitt This category was a category that historically could not compete with Silicon Valley salaries, could not attract the most talented engineers. It’s not a category that didn’t want to bring these people on board. It’s a category that just couldn’t afford to bring this talent on board, typically. I think it would be a dramatic shift for them when suddenly there are opportunities to hire these people. There is an opportunity to hire them at maybe more reasonable prices from this company’s perspective. You talk about small companies, the great thing is that there are millions of small companies at some point. I think things could be truly transformational. Of course, some of these engineers, software engineers, might decide to become entrepreneurs on their own. Solo entrepreneurs, small businesses, build their own, easier to build their own product to market so to serve other companies. I think there will be quite dramatic changes because not all companies will be disrupted by AI as much, but not every company will benefit from improving processes, improving software through AI. At least early on, you will need this human touch to make it work inside a business. Interestingly enough, I was hearing that some companies like IBM were hiring more younger people to do the work of going to the client, understand their needs, propose implementation plans. That forward deployed engineer, those positions, I think there will be more and more available. Nuno Goncalves Pedro Investor Landscape Fragmentation What happens to investor into the landscape? We already had an episode, the previous one, Episode 76, where we talked quite a lot about the big capital reset on the private equity and private reset, including venture capital. Just maybe to summarize, how does it align with the buckets that we’ve just been discussing? I think the AI-native bucket clearly is going to be the key bucket. There, we’re going to see two movements. One movement, which is the mega funds, as we discussed in the last episode, are no longer just VC funds. They’re really mostly multi-asset private equity funds, maybe even private equity hedge funds in some cases. Those funds will be all over the high-growth AI-native companies and will be pouring money into companies that are scaling really, really quickly. The early stage, so to speak, VCs, the actual VCs that will stay in the market will be the guys probably identifying the next big wave of AI-native companies. We’ve discussed that as well in the last episode, some research that we did at Chamaeleon that I shared in episode 76. We’ll see that as emerging. What happens to the second bucket, the bucket around human premium, human in the loop? Likely we’ll have more and more private equity capital going into it and the large-scale VC guys, the Thrives of the world, they’ve just announced Thrive Holdings, and others going after those markets as well. It’s trying to converge into the private equity market, which aligns with the point we made in the previous episode that the VC mega funds are no longer VC, that they are private equity, multi-asset class. They’re going after a bunch of things. There’s a conversion happening from VC into private equity. It was going to happen anyway because the private equity guys were coming into VC as well and the hedge funds were coming to VC as well. There’s a convergence in the middle of very, very large funds and large assets under management happening to go after some of these opportunities, certainly in Bucket B. Then this Bucket C, so to speak, the bucket of reindustrialization, as Bertrand was saying, very well, likely will be self-funded for a significant period of time. Will self-fund with their own cash flow. Doesn’t need to have a ton of capital intensity. Maybe you need one or two engineers to do stuff, but that’s it. You don’t need tons of capital. You didn’t need in the past, you won’t need it today. Not sure there’s going to be a fundamental shift to that market. Bertrand Schmitt Yes, I certainly, overall, agree with you. That last pocket, probably little change to the capital and capital structure. Again, I see that as the biggest opportunity for a lot of people who might be less needed by big tech and also top tech companies. What is sure for the first category, the high native startups? I would say more overall in the VC ecosystem, there is no space left for SaaS anymore. I think SaaS, as we used to know it, is dead in some ways in the sense that new pure SaaS software startup are definitely out. Existing ones that are critical to run your infrastructure, the Salesforce of the world, I think they’re in a decent spot. Actually, interestingly, they changed their pricing model to now sell to AI agents, not just per seat. There is a change in pricing there. But this day and age of funding a pure SaaS software startup through VC money, no way. VC money going to AI-native startups, AI-focused startups, to biotech, to deep tech, to defense tech, yes. SaaS as a fundable category early on, I think it’s over. Nuno Goncalves Pedro I’m a bit more nuanced as we shared in The SaaS Apocalypse episode. We can call it whatever we call. It’s applied AI is the new SaaS thing. Horizontal applied AI is the new horizontal SaaS or vertical applied AI is the new vertical SaaS. I agree in common with your point that very specific point solutions around SaaS will be disrupted by nature with all the easy stuff you can do today with AI. It will take a while. This is not something that’s going to happen this year. It’s going to happen over the next years. Maybe interesting to also talk about the exit markets. I think the IPO market, as we’ve also discussed in the past, there is, in my view, going to be a reopening of the IPO market, I think this year, probably later in the year, third or fourth quarter. The median time to IPO actually is going to be really weird because there’s going to be potentially some companies in the current landscape, bubble or no bubble, that are going to IPO, the OpenAIs of the world, Anthropics of the world, et cetera. There will be more and more aggression, I think, on M&A. Big tech has already shown it, that they want to buy into markets. Large non-tech companies have also started doing acquisitions in space. To prop up their IT teams, their engineering teams with this world that we’ve also discussed in previous episodes that I’m going to own my own engineering stack for now. As we see, that normally doesn’t withstand the test of time. At some point it will get unbundled and served by someone else. Then finally, the secondary market is very hot right now. Obviously, there’s heavy discounting on some areas, high premiums on others. The exit market, strangely enough, is going to be propped up, in my opinion, over the next year to 2 years, dramatically. Then we’ll see if there’s a big reckoning around the bubble that we are clearly in or not, if it’s a soft landing or hard landing. Definitely, there’s going to be a lot of exit paths over the next year to 2 years. Bertrand Schmitt Concerning the “bubble”, I have two perspectives on this. One is it’s a bubble in the sense that money is going to a lot of players and some players are going to blow it up. There will be a concentration of players at the end, like it usually happens. If you look at, for instance, long time ago, the railway revolution, there was that intense influx of capital. At the end of the day, there was a dramatic change in transportation in the US and a complete railway system put in place. Yes, some investors lost money, some companies went bankrupt, but the transformation was fully real. There were a lot of top leaders at the end of this revolution. The change after that only happened, we guess, post-World War II, with the construction of the highway system and the rise of airlines and plane transportation overall. Here I feel it’s similar in the sense that, yes, there is a lot of money going in. Some players are going to blow it. They will misuse the money in different ways, but that’s part of dynamic allocation of capital. Of course, you make mistakes. That’s what happens. At the same time, I feel it’s a similar level in the sense of this is a dramatic change in the US infrastructure. This buildup of AI data centers filled with GPUs, integrated at scale with some of the best software in the world and running it, supported by a dramatic shift in energy infrastructure. This is for me similar to the Railroad Revolution. Some players might not own the data center they build because they didn’t manage well their debt, they didn’t manage to run proper software. You know what? They will get acquired by somebody else. I think we are at this level of fundamental transformation. The fact that in a matter of maybe 2 years, the move from 0% of code written by AI to 100 % written by AI is an insane dramatic shift. Just to be clear, when you move from manually coded to AI coded, we’re talking about a 100X difference in terms of speed at similar, if not better level of quality. The shift is dramatic, and on top of it, you don’t pay salaries anymore to achieve that. You pay CapEx, and with GPUs and OpEx with electricity. It’s a very big shift, positive shift in business model. New unions, no management over it, AI working 24/7. Personally, I think for me, bubble has a bad connotation in the sense of it was all for a waste. I don’t think it’s all for a waste. I think we are witnessing a dramatic revolution of our lifetimes, quite frankly, bigger than SaaS, bigger than mobile. From my perspective, it’s exciting times. Nuno Goncalves Pedro Operator Playbook and Predictions Let’s move to if you are this person, what would you do in the future? Let’s start with two extremes and go from there. One is you’re non-tech, so you’re not an engineer, et cetera. You’re trying to figure out, how do I scale my activity? Maybe physical labor is where I want to go. It’s not, “Go west” anymore. Definitely not necessarily go west. You should go to, I guess, the states that have no sales tax with very cheap energy because that’s where the data centers are being built if you want to be in that market. Obviously, there’s a lot of stuff that needs to be done: HVAC, electricity work, et cetera. Don’t go west. Go low sales taxes, low cost of energy. That’s likely where the data centers are being built. You probably can just follow. There’s, I’m sure, some way for you to follow where the data centers are being built, but that’s next, I think on that extreme of the table. The other extreme of the table, let’s say you are super ambitious, maybe you’re no longer an engineer, but you’re a product manager in your prompt engineering. You could do prompt engineering all day long. You’re 28, 29-year-old superstar. What do you go and do? Likely either you start your own thing, start your own company because you’re so good at prompt engineering, you probably can do a lot of the code yourself, particularly if you have an engineering background, or you go and join very early an AI-native startup that you think has the chance of going through the roof, and you take a pretty good salary early on, a ton of upside on the company because guess what? Companies like that need product managers. They need people to figure out UX, UI. It’s not going to be, at least for now, yet AI figuring that out for you. Those are two extremes, just to give two of the extremes, like engineering, product management persona, and physical labor at the other extreme, non-tech, et cetera. Bertrand Schmitt In some ways, every software engineering job is going to become the equivalent of a software engineering manager or a product manager, because suddenly you don’t have to do the coding anymore. You’re managing AI that is coding for you. Either you start to have some manager hat, but we saw the humans, so it’s a very different type of manager, obviously, or you are going to be really an empowered product manager. You’re skipping the middleman. You’re skipping the traditional engineering organization because your engineering organization is AI running and doing the work for you. I still believe that it requires some serious skills. I don’t believe in the vibe coder type of value proposition. I don’t believe in the prompt engineer becoming suddenly super incredible, able to manage that. I still think it requires some serious chops to do the best from all of this and to do it in a safe and sane way. It’s very easy to have poor taste, make mistakes. I don’t know you, but keep reading these stories on the heads of companies who lost everything because of the AI agents. That deleted stuff in production, and they had no backups or the backups weren’t deleted as well. Crazy situation. You cannot run companies like this if you let your agents running wild. You could argue it’s the early days. I would argue it that that issues would be there for a while. You need to have some engineering discipline at core in the company running the business to make sure things don’t go sideways because it would be easy for things to go sideways. Nuno Goncalves Pedro I totally agree. If you’re thinking, Oh, should my kid go into science and engineering and computer science, et cetera? Absolutely, still, because of everything that Bertrand just said. You need to understand actually what code does and what technology does and what all of that does. That’s still a skill of the future. It’s not a skill of the past. In some ways, it’s still a skill of the future very much. Maybe let’s try two more extremes. Around the same level, the person that decided to do an AI native company bootstrapped initially, having difficulty raising a mega round, but could probably get away with raising a 2-3 million seed round, et cetera. Is that still viable? The answer is yes. There’s tremendous capital efficiency right now happening in the market still, 10 plus higher than if you were doing a SaaS company, and you were a founder in 2019 or something like that. That capital efficiency is going to reverberate. You can run a tighter team, smaller team. Actually, you don’t need that many salaries. If you’re a decent engineer as a founder or if you understand enough as a product manager to just generate that code, you can do a lot of stuff yourself, can bring in maybe one or two technical elements to the team early on as you would have done if you were bootstrapped anyway. There’s obviously a path for that. The other extreme is you’re in big tech, you’re level five, individual contributor, making a ton of money, or you were a manager, and you’re now out of a job, where do you go? You can go to a big company that is non-tech, S&P 500 company that’s non-tech, something like that. You join the company, you’ll probably get paid pretty well, maybe not as high as you were paid in big tech. There’s some stock at the table, but guess what? You’ll have probably more work-life balance than you ever did. That’s the trade-off. You’ll have a better job. On the upside, you can transform the company. You can help and be part of transforming a company from non-AI to AI-first or AI-enabled in the future, whatever BS that will look like in terms of the argumentation to the board. You can actually create tremendous productivity enhancements in a big non-tech company if you come with that background. Again, you’ll have certainly a better work-life balance, so not a bad deal, to be honest. Bertrand Schmitt Also, to be clear, I talk a lot about AI coding because it’s truly transformational. You could argue that it’s going to be self-improving. We are in the situation of a self-improving AI that keeps improving itself thanks to automated coding. It’s a dramatic, virtuous loop. Obviously, AI is also going to improve everything else. It’s going to improve your marketing, it’s going to improve your search process, it’s going to improve your DNA. Improvements will be everywhere. It’s just that right now we are at a point in the quote-unquote revolution where there is one clear piece of the puzzle that is moving faster than the rest. Nuno Goncalves Pedro Bertrand, the senior executives at non-tech don’t know anything about that. It could be just a great prompt engineer. That’s the only job you do. “I’m the chief marketing officer. I have someone below me that’s doing the whole work.” Nobody knows. Nobody’s the wiser, I guess. I’m being facetious, but not fully. Bertrand Schmitt Yeah. There would be a transition period where what you described happen. I want to say, going back to AI coding, I think that the part of AI that as of today has reached a stage of limited AGI. We have reached, from my perspective, a limited type of AGI for coding. If you take coding as a discipline today, I think we reach AGI. If you go beyond coding, that’s true. If we are talking about coding, leveraging the latest LLMs: OPUS 4.7, ChatGPT 5.5, combined with Claude Code, Codex, and OpenCode for harness, I think we’ve reached AGI in the context of coding. I’m not sure everyone fully realize that and the consequence of that. I think the rest is going to come as well. We are going to see that category by category, usually categories that are more scientific in nature, where you can replicate, where you can test easily, where you can create clear success. Metrics will be the “easiest” to follow in that direction of self-improvement. I just want to highlight that this part is truly transformational, the root cause of everything we’re talking about today. At the same time, it’s coming beyond coding. Nuno Goncalves Pedro I think it is true. There are a couple of markets where that might not hold true, which is maybe the final path. If you’re thinking of starting your own business in plumbing and in HVAC maintenance and installation, this is a pretty good time for the reasons we already said before. There’s a lot of buildup of data centers and all that stuff, but also for other reasons, because it’s an activity that won’t be disrupted by AI yet. You need them embodied AI. You need physicality to AI to do stuff like actually fixing pipes. Bertrand Schmitt Until Optimus replace you. Nuno Goncalves Pedro Yeah, but if we’re 3, 4 years out in terms of a lot of these optimizations that we’re talking about at the software layer, we’re 10 years plus out on embodied AI, right? Bertrand Schmitt Oh, yeah, it’s 10 years. Nuno Goncalves Pedro We’ll probably be optimistic as we speak. That’s a nice business. I’m thinking of starting to go into that market. If you guys are interested in listening to this, just reach out to me. What’s the angle? I think there’s a lot of stuff you can do in the buildup of some of these businesses, plumbing, HVAC, all sorts of maintenance. There are markets that are just totally messed up. Handyman market in the US is totally messed up. There’s a bunch of companies out there that try to go after it with marketplaces and stuff. I honestly just start something from scratch, a small business, and go from there. Bertrand Schmitt Yes. They’re an interesting middle. Think about accounting firms, consulting firms. I think they are not as easy to replace, but at the same time, there is no way on what they do is not going to be dramatically changed with AI. I don’t know if it’s 50, 80, 90% of the job, but this is changing quite dramatically, would be my expectation in the coming few years. Conclusion Thanks for listening episode 77 of Tech Deciphered about that great talent redistribution. As you heard it from us, we believe there is a dramatic change in play, enabled by AI coding, and that ultimately a lot of the big tech companies are changing their employee distribution, way more focused on the top talents and bringing more GPUs. As a result, we will see a change in their staffing. Some of this change will benefit AI-focused startups, but probably more likely will benefit the bigger SMBs, the S&P 500 companies of the world that will finally be able to bring inside and afford some of the talent that were in some ways trapped by the top 5, 10, 20 software companies of the world. Thank you, Nuno. Nuno Goncalves Pedro Thank you, Bertrand
The dominant structural shift highlighted in this episode is the migration of AI from experimental tools into directly embedded workflows within widely used small business platforms. Vendors like Anthropic, with its Claude for Small Business connectors to QuickBooks, HubSpot, Canva, Google Workspace, and Microsoft 365, are abstracting away technical complexity by offering concrete, prebuilt automations that address specific business processes. This embedding moves operational risk and ambiguity from model selection to the permissions layer, where control, oversight, and accountability become central concerns for providers supporting these environments. A key supporting development is Anthropic's rapid market penetration, with the VentureBeat-cited Ramp AI Index reporting 34.4% business adoption of Claude in the US—outpacing OpenAI's 32.3%. The implication, reinforced by research from the Global Technology Industry Association, is that AI service revenue is rising sharply, but only 30% of IT service providers in the UK and Ireland report fully integrating AI into their models. Simultaneously, governance gaps are being exposed: The Register notes user data may be employed for model training unless privacy settings are proactively changed, leaving operational risk exposed through default configurations. Additional developments reinforce the risk and accountability shift. OpenAI has established a subsidiary focused on direct deployments and implementation, seeking to guarantee quality and consistency in enterprise integration. CIO Dive references Palo Alto Networks research indicating 77% of CIOs claim AI risk management confidence, yet only 30% have real usage visibility, and 62% cite rogue agent concerns. The discussion connects these risks back to routine SMB operations, where AI-enabled workflows can act on core business data, increasing MSP proximity to liability and making explicit who controls connectors, permissions, and incident response documentation. For MSPs and IT service firms, the operational consequence is that supporting AI-enabled platforms now obligates them to establish and document governance, inventory, data access, and approval processes. Risk shifts from abstract model performance to concrete operational exposure, especially as AI systems interconnect with finance, identity, communication, and other high-stakes subsystems. Providers lacking scoped service definitions and contractual clarity face unpriced liability, while those that implement billable AI governance frameworks—such as audit templates, privacy reviews, and incident-ready contracts—are positioned to address demand from clients, auditors, and insurers. Neglecting these steps is likely to result in exposure to vendor-driven terms and diminished operational standing. 00:00 Workflow Takeover 04:20 Readiness Crisis 06:24 Govern or Expose 11:13 Why Do We Care? Supported by: NerdioScalePad
Gant Elmore and Matt Moldenhauer each bought $2m businesses they built over years. Today their holdco does over $200m. Register for the webinar:Revenue Recognition & Quality of Revenue in SMB Deals - TOMORROW!! - https://bit.ly/4dMvx4wTopics in Matt & Gant's interview:3 generations of acquisition entrepreneursMatt started as operator, became partnerBain mentors warned Matt not to do ETAGoal of owning 50 companies by 2050Being the Ferrari in a price-competitive industryWhy they prefer holding to exitingChallenge of giving control to an operatorGant and his dad teach ETA togetherWar stories from small business operationsDemand exceeds supply of great businessesReferences and how to contact Matt & Gant:Elmore Companiesmatt.moldenhauer@elmorecompanies.comMatt's LinkedInGant's LinkedInDownload the New CEO's Guide to Human Resources from Aspen HR:From this page or contact jenny@aspenhr.comGet a free review of your books & financial ops from System Six (a $500 value):Book a call with Tim or hello@systemsix.com and mention Acquiring MindsGet a complimentary IT audit for acquisition diligence or post-close transition.Visit inzotechnologies.com/eta.Connect with Acquiring Minds:See past + future interviews on the YouTube channelConnect with host Will Smith on LinkedInFollow Will on TwitterEdited by Anton Rohozov and produced by Pam Cameron
SummaryWhat does it take to build a thriving running community from scratch—and keep it going year after year? In this episode of the Startup Junkies podcast, Daniel Koonce, Ty Steele, and their guests dig into the passion, patience, and persistence behind the Arkansas Track Club's rise and evolution.Founder, Shawn Wierick, never imagined trading in med school dreams for youth coaching and ultra-marathons, but since 2012, he's built a track club with roots deep in Arkansas's running culture. Driven by the belief that culture trumps all, Shawn shares insights on inclusive leadership, welcoming everyone from six-year-old racers to elite adult athletes. For him, success isn't just about race results, but about fostering an atmosphere where they embrace everybody where they are, and if they want the best for others, they're usually a good fitNow, the baton has passed to Erin Warren, physical therapist, elite runner, and Arkansas Track Club's new owner. Erin brings not just elite credentials but also lessons from personal burnout, renewal, and a burning desire to pour into the next generation of runners. Her advice to new runners is refreshingly real: take it slow, find shoes that fit, and remember that fun and patience go the distance.Whether you're lacing up for your first mile or building a grassroots sports business, this episode is full of practical wisdom and real talk—reminding us all that, at the end of the day, it's not that serious. Have fun, build community, and enjoy the run!Show Notes(00:00) Moving to Arkansas and Finding a Coach(04:24) Starting a Post-Collegiate Track Team(09:01) Keeping Practices Fun and Engaging(15:30) Turning a Running Passion Into a Career(19:29) Breaking Down Running Expenses(23:01) Learning to Enjoy the Journey(24:24) Closing ThoughtsLinksDaniel KoonceTy SteeleStartup JunkieStartup Junkie YouTubeErin WarrenShawn WierickArkansas Track Club
The smallest AI update that'll change your work? ChatGPT's new Codex remote control update.
Zack Mutnik thought he bought a $1.5m electrical contracting business for 2.3x. The numbers weren't what they seemed.Register for the webinar:Kill It Early: Spot Red Flags Before Spending on Diligence - TODAY!! - https://bit.ly/4eBVO6ETopics in Zack's interview:Learning leadership in the NavyManaging chaos with ADHDUndisclosed surprises after acquisitionReplacing 8/10 employeesHeavy emphasis on company cultureDeciding to change the business nameTraining his employees to be independentGrowing revenue despite a rocky startMarketing is not a quick fixFinding employees in a rural marketReferences and how to contact Zack:TikTokFacebookLinkedInGet a complimentary IT audit for acquisition diligence or post-close transition.Visit inzotechnologies.com/eta.Download the New CEO's Guide to Human Resources from Aspen HR:From this page or contact jenny@aspenhr.comGet complimentary due diligence on your acquisition's insurance & benefits program:Oberle Risk Strategies - Search Fund TeamConnect with Acquiring Minds:See past + future interviews on the YouTube channelConnect with host Will Smith on LinkedInFollow Will on TwitterEdited by Anton Rohozov and produced by Pam Cameron
What does it feel like to stand in the smoking ruin of a ransomware attack? In this episode, Steve Moore is joined by former FBI undercover operative Eric O'Neill—the man who helped capture Robert Hanssen—to explain why modern cybercrime is just traditional espionage repackaged, and why the dark web has quietly become the world's third-largest economy.Eric traces his path from the FBI's counterintelligence trenches to founding NeXasure AI and writing cybersecurity books that read like spy thrillers. He and Steve unpack the staggering scale of cybercrime, which Eric predicts could reach $20 trillion in global GDP within years—a marketplace selling everything from ransomware kits to stolen credentials.They dismantle the “it won't happen to me” mindset that still lingers in boardrooms. Eric describes how attackers use AI agents to scan for vulnerable systems, walks through how Scattered Spider socially engineered MGM in a ten-minute phone call, and explains why disabled MFA remains the leading point of failure for small and mid-size businesses.Eric then unpacks the painful calculus of paying a ransom. He explains why the FBI says never pay, when OFAC sanctions make payment a federal crime, and why—even after paying—an organization must still do the same forensic, legal, and architectural work. Steve and Eric also detail how attackers resell access and treat victims as repeat customers. The episode closes with a candid look at recovery. Eric and Steve explore why most companies fail at restoration, why rolling back to “before the attack” leaves the original flaw wide open, and why preparation always beats panic. Tune in for a part-one masterclass for any leader who thinks their organization is too small to be a target.Key Topics• How traditional espionage evolved into modern cybercrime• The dark web as the world's third-largest economy• Why every organization is a target, regardless of size• The MGM ransomware attack and Scattered Spider's playbook• Disabled MFA as the leading cause of SMB compromise• Vulnerability assessments versus fire-time remediation costs• The pay-versus-don't-pay ransomware calculus• OFAC sanctions and the legal risks of paying• Why restoring backups is not the same as recovery• The how, where, why, what, and when of breach forensicsGuest BioEric O'Neill is a former FBI counterintelligence operative, attorney, and bestselling author who helped bring down Robert Hanssen—the most damaging spy in FBI history. He is the founder of NeXasure AI and co-founder of The Georgetown Group, and his undercover work was dramatized in the film Breach. Eric is the author of Gray Day and Spies, Lies, and Cybercrime.Connect with Eric on LinkedIn or at ericoneill.net.GET A DEMO:
What's really driving fintech right now?We sit down with Aidan Corbett, CEO of Wayflyer, on how data-driven underwriting and market shifts are creating new opportunities (and challenges) in SMB lending as well as globally expanding your business earlyPlus— The latest on fintech M&A, stablecoin trends, and Adyen’s first major acquisition this week on the Fintech Newscast https://wayflyer.com … Continue reading Ep 282- Wayflyer CEO Aiden Corbett
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Alicia Powers wanted to buy a general contractor but understood the risks in such businesses and negotiated accordingly.Register for the webinar: Kill It Early: Spot Red Flags Before Spending on Diligence - Thu, May 14 - https://bit.ly/4wqiYU3Topics in Alicia's interview:Air Force construction experienceCorporate job at an elevator companyLeading a shower remodeling startupLayoff motivated her toward acquisitionWhy franchising isn't for herAcquiring a small construction businessGetting her general contractor licenseSpecializing in home additions/ADUsTailwinds in the San Diego areaSurprisingly long sales cycleReferences and how to contact Alicia:LinkedInPrice BuildersGet a free review of your books & financial ops from System Six (a $500 value):Book a call with Tim or hello@systemsix.com and mention Acquiring MindsThe ecosystem for serious acquisition entrepreneurs—education, capital, community, and post-close support to buy and grow a business:The Acquisition LabWork with an SBA loan team focused exclusively on helping entrepreneurs buy businesses:Pioneer Capital AdvisoryConnect with Acquiring Minds:See past + future interviews on the YouTube channelConnect with host Will Smith on LinkedInFollow Will on TwitterEdited by Anton Rohozov and produced by Pam Cameron
SummaryEver thought about what's missing from your community—and what could happen if you decided to fill that gap yourself? That question is at the heart of Ozark Float Park, the innovative family-friendly business featured in the latest episode of the Startup Junkies podcast. In a region known for its outdoor spirit, Michael Barron saw an opportunity: despite Northwest Arkansas's wealth of natural settings and active families, the area was missing a float or aqua park—a modular, inflatable obstacle course on a lake designed for all ages.Michael shares his story with hosts Caleb Talley and Ty Steele, describing the moment inspiration struck during a California heatwave and how moving to Arkansas crystallized his idea. The conversation, filled with practical advice and honest reflections, dives deep into the early days of building a business on the side while managing a full-time career. Michael talks through the process of turning a dream into reality: researching local resources, finding support in Arkansas's startup ecosystem, and navigating everything from risk-aversion to operational logistics.What sets this episode apart is the genuine sense of possibility threaded throughout, especially for anyone wondering if their side-hustle could become something bigger. Michael discusses not just the vision for Ozark Float Park, but the challenges and rewards of entrepreneurship, offering encouragement for would-be founders to take that first, sometimes scary, step. Whether you're an outdoor enthusiast, an aspiring entrepreneur, or a fan of creative problem solving, this episode is a celebration of community, innovation, and family fun!Show Notes(00:00) Realizing a Market Opportunity(03:45) Designing Eco-Friendly Outdoor Adventures(08:03) Discovering Support in Startup Ecosystems(11:39) Creating Fun Experiences for Families(16:10) Hiring Strategies for Summer Operations(22:33) Planning a Float Park Expansion(24:40) Overcoming Fear of New Ideas(27:13) Closing ThoughtsLinksCaleb TalleyTy SteeleStartup JunkieStartup Junkie YouTubeMichael BarronOzark Float ParkSponsored by Bank of America
What good is AI if you can't trust it? Everyone's racing to do more, build more, ship more agents. But if you're scanning an AI output and say it looks good enough, that isn't actually good enough. Especially when it comes to your company's finances. If you're a CFO, a finance leader, or running an SMB where one wrong number sends everything sideways, having trust in your AI is paramount.On today's show, we're getting into why the model alone won't save you, where finance pros should actually be spending their time now, and why most companies are thinking about AI risk backwards. Helping us break it down is Jeremiah Edwards, Head of Sage AI, from Sage Future last week.Newsletter: Sign up for our free daily newsletterMore on this Episode: Episode PageToday's Episode on LinkedIn: Thoughts on this? Join the convo on LinkedIn and connect with other AI leaders.Upcoming Episodes: Check out the upcoming Everyday AI Livestream lineupWebsite: YourEverydayAI.comEmail The Show: info@youreverydayai.comConnect with Jordan on LinkedInTopics Covered in This Episode:AI Trust and Explainability in FinanceSage Copilot's New Agentic AI FeaturesFinancial Accuracy and Model Risk ManagementChain of Thought Reasoning in AI OutputsExplainability and Auditability for CFO ConfidenceHuman Agency and AI Automation in AccountingShadow IT Risks and Model IntegrationRisk Appetite for SMB Finance AI AdoptionOutlier Detection and Anomaly Monitoring with AIFuture-Proofing Financial Processes with AITimestamps:00:00 Discussing AI trust and auditing05:17 AI models and math capabilities update07:50 Importance of AI explainability12:39 AI in finance and time-saving13:52 Optimizing time with agentic AI18:18 Integrating AI into teams21:54 Using AI in different roles24:37 Adopting AI with real value26:59 Wrapping up and subscribingKeywords: AI you can trust, trustworthy AI, audit your AI, AI explainability, explainable AI, AI in finance, agentic AI, Sage Copilot, Sage AI, financial intelligence agent, AI governance, control plane, AI accuracy, chain of thought reasoning, Send Everyday AI and Jordan a text message. (We can't reply back unless you leave contact info) Start Here ▶️Not sure where to start when it comes to AI? Start with our Start Here Series. You can listen to the first drop -- Episode 691 -- or get free access to our Inner Cricle community and all episodes: StartHereSeries.com Also, here's a link to the entire series on a Spotify playlist.
Brendan Duebner's goal is to build a healthy, long-term business of 20-40 people. Buying a $1.2m MSP was his first step.Topics in Brendan's interview:Learning to lead in the ArmySummer internship with Josh MedowCold calling is unpleasant but effectiveLiving and acquiring in the Bay AreaWorking in the business before closingSigns of seller integrity85% seller note with no personal guaranteeImplementing EOS himselfChoosing to only hire localHis mission of building a tribeReferences and how to contact Brendan:LinkedInIT Total CareJosh Medow on Acquiring Minds: How to Unlock Growth in a 40-Year-Old Business You BuyAbhi Ravishankar on Acquiring Minds: The $50m Lifestyle HoldcoWork with an SBA loan team focused exclusively on helping entrepreneurs buy businesses:Pioneer Capital AdvisoryGet complimentary due diligence on your acquisition's insurance & benefits program:Oberle Risk Strategies - Search Fund TeamDownload the New CEO's Guide to Human Resources from Aspen HR:From this page or contact jenny@aspenhr.comConnect with Acquiring Minds:See past + future interviews on the YouTube channelConnect with host Will Smith on LinkedInFollow Will on TwitterEdited by Anton Rohozov and produced by Pam Cameron
Scaling with Intention: Building the Modern Operating System with Damon FlowersIn a recent episode of The Thoughtful Entrepreneur Podcast, host Josh Elledge sat down with Damon Flowers, the Founder of modernoperators.com, to discuss the structural evolution required to scale a small-to-medium-sized business (SMB) in the age of artificial intelligence. Damon, a seasoned entrepreneur with two eight-figure exits and four CEO roles to his credit, shares his expert perspective on why the current "patchwork" approach to business software is the primary bottleneck for founders. This conversation serves as a strategic roadmap for leaders who are currently working 70-hour weeks and feel trapped by their own success, offering a path toward true operational freedom through a centralized, AI-enhanced core operating system.The Architecture of Efficiency: Transitioning from Fragmentation to a Core SystemThe modern business landscape is often characterized by "SaaS sprawl," where an SMB might rely on 15 to 25 disconnected tools for CRM, project management, and finance, leading to data silos and extreme founder burnout. Damon Flowers argues that true scalability is impossible without a core operating system—a central hub that orchestrates people, processes, and data into a single source of truth. When a founder remains the primary bridge between these disconnected tools, they become the ultimate bottleneck, preventing the business from functioning independently. By centralizing data and automating routine data flows, a leader can transition from tactical firefighting to strategic oversight, ensuring that the business is built to scale or exit rather than just survive the week.AI represents the next great frontier for operational excellence, but only if it is integrated into a strong existing foundation rather than "bolted on" as a temporary fix. Many founders face anxiety regarding AI, fearing it may disrupt their culture or replace human talent; however, when aligned with a core system, AI acts as a massive force multiplier for fulfillment and customer service. Modern Operators utilizes a hybrid model that combines high-level management consulting with an AI-powered platform to ingest transcripts, web data, and founder input. This allows for the rapid generation of standard operating procedures (SOPs), brand avatars, and vision statements that are uniquely tailored to the organization's DNA, drastically reducing the time required to build a sophisticated infrastructure.Escaping the "founder's trap" requires a disciplined shift toward role clarity and process documentation. Damon suggests that most SMBs mistake payment platforms or task managers for an operating system, but a true system is what defines how information moves and how decisions are made. By implementing role-based access and clear decision rights, staff members are empowered to act without constant oversight, which significantly increases organizational agility. Founders should focus on a 90-day implementation sprint to establish this core, allowing them to step up the value chain where they can focus on culture, high-level partnerships, and long-term vision. In a world of shiny new tools, the winners are those who prioritize the structural integrity of their core operations.About Damon FlowersDamon Flowers is the Founder of Modern Operators and an elite business strategist with a track record of building and exiting high-value companies. Having navigated two eight-figure exits and served as CEO for four different organizations, Damon brings a rare level of "in-the-trenches" experience to his consulting work. He is dedicated to helping SMB founders regain their time and sanity by implementing the same sophisticated operating systems used by global enterprises.About Modern OperatorsModern Operators is an operational consulting firm and technology platform designed to help SMBs build scalable, AI-enhanced foundations. The company provides a unique hybrid of management consulting and custom-built software solutions that integrate seamlessly with tools like Notion. Modern Operators specializes in 90-day implementation cycles, helping founders document their vision, automate their processes, and prepare their businesses for rapid growth or lucrative exits.Links Mentioned in This EpisodeModern Operators Official Website: modernoperators.comDamon Flowers on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/damonflowersKey Episode HighlightsThe Fragmented Tech Trap: Identifying why 15-25 disconnected SaaS tools create a bottleneck that forces founders to work 70+ hours a week.The Core System Concept: Defining the difference between a standalone "tool" and a true operating system that orchestrates people and data.AI-Powered SOPs: How to use call transcripts and founder input to automatically generate vision statements and operating procedures.The 90-Day Sprint: Modern Operators' framework for rapidly building a scalable infrastructure and exiting the "tactical" stage of leadership.Exit Readiness: Why having a centralized, documented system is the single most important factor in making a business attractive to eight-figure buyers.ConclusionThe conversation with Damon Flowers highlights that the "founders trap" of overwork is almost always a symptom of a fragmented operating system. By centralizing business data and thoughtfully integrating AI, leaders can build resilient, autonomous organizations that thrive without requiring 70-hour workweeks from the CEO.More from The Thoughtful Entrepreneur
Heading to Vegas this May? Join Josh at Pulse 2026 and come say hi—your oversized fluorescent daiquiri is on him. No catch.Grab your ticket at gainsightpulse.com and use code UNCHURNED for a special rate.Rob Edmondson, CCO at Ironclad - an AI contracting platform - brings a military-grade operating philosophy to customer outcomes: mission first, people always.In this episode, he breaks down what happened when his team used AI to predict churn — and why the results blew up their assumptions about what "good adoption" actually looks like.Rob reveals how down-market customers who adopted AI features too early actually churned more, why enterprise renewal patterns look nothing like daily usage. He also gets honest about the governance-vs-freedom tension every leader is navigating with AI tools right now.---Timestamps0:00 - Preview & introduction1:40 - Meet Rob Edmondson, CCO of Ironclad4:01 - Rob's career origin story5:03 - "Mission first, people always" - leadership from the military9:15 - How Rob enables a people-first culture across his teams11:05 - Using AI internally to predict churn & the surprising findings14:22 - Building a four-stage maturity model from churn prediction data16:35 - The AI vibe check: governance vs. freedom balancing act20:20 - Can you mandate AI usage? 21:57 - Tying every AI agent to an OKR22:40 - Ironclad's OKRs & Driving AI feature adoption---What You'll Learn- How Ironclad built an AI model that predicts churn six months out- The difference between enterprise and SMB "digital signatures" of healthy customers- How to build a four-stage customer maturity model with measurable adoption gates- Why Rob ties CSM compensation to stage-progression KPIs, not activity metrics- What "mission first, people always" means when translated from the military to SaaS- How Ironclad balances AI governance with giving teams freedom to experiment- What an AI roadmap looks like when every agent is tied to an OKR---Want the playbook, not just the conversation? Subscribe for deep-dive, actionable breakdowns from every episode at unchurned.substack.com.---Where to Find the GuestRob Edmondson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/redmondson/---Where to Find Josh:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/Unchurned Substack: https://unchurned.substack.com/
A ten-minute break outside turns into a reflection on awe, wonder, and the quiet intelligence of the natural world. In this solo Walk with SMB episode, Susan shares how spotting a perfectly camouflaged sphinx moth on a tree outside her home shifted her attention completely away from work, stress, and mental noise — and back into observation, curiosity, and presence. Through stories of a robin building a nest, maple seeds emerging in spring, and a green turtle gliding through the ocean, this episode explores how nature invites us to slow down enough to notice what we often overlook. Susan also shares research on awe and wonder, including how these experiences may support nervous system regulation, attention restoration, and a deeper sense of connection. Sometimes the moments that root us most deeply are the ones small enough to miss.
Join Youssef Khayali, CEO and Co-founder of Sustalium, for a strategic look at the massive shift occurring at the intersection of Artificial Intelligence and corporate responsibility. As LLM business models optimize for cost and enterprise scale, a familiar pattern is emerging: a fragmented ecosystem of compliance and sustainability frameworks that threatens to leave Small and Medium Businesses (SMBs) behind. In this episode, we discuss how the EU AI Act serves as a catalyst for disrupting these outdated, siloed systems and why empowering the "backbone of the economy" is the only way to build a truly sustainable global value chain.
We dig into the Copy Fail vulnerability and test a proof-of-concept against our own box. Plus, Jon Seager, VP of Engineering at Canonical joins us, and we kick off the BSD Challenge!Sponsored By:Jupiter Party Annual Membership: Put your support on automatic with our annual plan, and get one month of membership for free!Managed Nebula: Meet Managed Nebula from Defined Networking. A decentralized VPN built on the open-source Nebula platform that we love.Support LINUX UnpluggedLinks:
Andrew Blazenko has made 6 acquisitions over the last ten years. Pairing businesses with operators is key to his model.Topics in Andrew's interview:Background as a business brokerWanted the exit joy for himselfDanger of low barrier to entryFinding great operators to run his businessesBusiness acquisition requires repsExecutive in Residence programRequiring operators to invest in the businessDifficulty of raising equity in CanadaShipping costs as a natural moatLiving as a “gentleman of leisure” References and how to contact Andrew:LinkedInProSafeEterna EquityTrueFoamThe ecosystem for serious acquisition entrepreneurs—education, capital, community, and post-close support to buy and grow a business:The Acquisition LabGet a complimentary IT audit for acquisition diligence or post-close transition.Visit inzotechnologies.com/eta.Get a free review of your books & financial ops from System Six (a $500 value):Book a call with Tim or hello@systemsix.com and mention Acquiring MindsConnect with Acquiring Minds:See past + future interviews on the YouTube channelConnect with host Will Smith on LinkedInFollow Will on TwitterEdited by Anton Rohozov and produced by Pam Cameron
SummaryHave you ever wondered how a simple idea born from a desire to spread joy can transform into a thriving business that redefines representation during the holidays? The latest episode of the Startup Junkies podcast offers a powerful glimpse into the origin and phenomenal growth of Black Paper Party, the vibrant Black-owned brand shaking up the seasonal décor industry.Hosts Daniel Koonce and Ty Steele sit down with the dynamic founders of Black Paper Party—Jasmine Hudson, Madia Willis, and J'Aaron Merchant—to uncover the inspirations, challenges, and triumphs behind their journey. As Jasmine recounts, the beginnings were humble: an aspiration to create joy and belonging amid the uncertainty of the pandemic, combining creativity and community at its core. Their first designs, launched through print-on-demand, quickly gained traction, paving the way for exponential growth and millions of products sold in stores like Walmart, Target, and more.The episode takes listeners through the unique strengths each founder contributes—Madia's design and sourcing expertise, J'Aaron's illustration talent rooted in children's media, and Jasmine's mastery of merchandising and operations. The team shares the reality of bootstrapping, scaling rapidly, and holding true to their mission of authentic representation and joy, even as their products land on shelves nationwide.For anyone curious about what it really takes to break into major retail with a purpose-driven brand, or how collaboration and authenticity can power success, this episode is an inspiring look behind the wrapping paper. Tune in today!Show Notes(00:00) Starting a Project During Quarantine(05:59) Professional Background and Diversity Work(08:46) Career Journey from College to Walmart(11:26) Securing and Managing Licensing Deals(14:55) Focusing on Customer Feedback and Values(16:39) Startup Challenges and Supply Issues(22:17) Expanding Brand and Holiday Strategy(26:58) Embracing Curiosity and Asking Questions(28:56) Closing ThoughtsLinksDaniel KoonceTy SteeleStartup JunkieStartup Junkie YouTubeJasmine HudsonMadia WillisJ'Aaron MerchantBlack Paper PartySponsored by Bank of America
Hey friends! Today's another Tales of Pentest Pwnage! Quick tangent first on a couple side projects: I've got a music thing at quack.house (like the duck noise, not the drug) and a podcast with my dancer son Atticus at DadOfADancer.com. Speaking of Atticus — he just landed a spot in Master Ballet Academy's summer program in Phoenix, and I am a very proud dance dad over here. OK, on to the pentest: A weird runas quirk: If your AD test account password ends in a percent sign, runas seems to misbehave (Claude thinks Windows is interpreting the % as a variable delimiter). Workaround: runascs.exe, which wraps your tool launch with creds inline. Worked like a champ — notes over on the 7MinSec.wiki. Standard first pass: PingCastle for the AD overview, then Snaffler for share crawling, with Chimas as a nicer web UI for searching the Snaffler JSON. The "Snaffler missed something" moment: Snaffler is great but it primarily uses pattern matching, so manual review of interesting directories still matters. I found a PowerShell script with a funky obfuscation routine, fed it to Claude for context, tracked down the function definition, and ended up decrypting a local admin password. Going loud: SMB-sprayed that cred across the subnets → handful of machines popped → ran a deeper, targeted Snaffler against just those boxes → enumerated sessions and spotted a domain admin interactively logged in. Plan A fizzled: Wanted to pull off a favorite trick — sneak in via WinRM and queue a scheduled task as the logged-in DA (no password needed). WinRM was disabled. Oh fart. Plan B — the "trap" file: Dropped a malicious .library-ms file directly into the DA's desktop folder. No clicks required — just the desktop being open is enough to trigger an HTTP coercion to my evil box. (Caveat: I think you need a DNS record or computer object that the victim box trusts as "intranet zone.") The escalation: Had ntlmrelayx standing by, ready to relay to LDAP on a DC. The coerced auth fired the moment the "trap" file landed on disk. An interactive LDAP shell fired in the DA's context, and I used it to add my low-priv account to the Domain Admins group. Defense angles: Rather than chase each technique individually (LDAP signing, web client GPOs, library-ms neutralization, etc.), I like to back up to the systemic fixes that break the chain earlier. Big ones here: deploy LAPS so a single decrypted local admin password isn't a master key everywhere, and a thorough sweep for sensitive data and custom obfuscation routines hanging out on shares. Got thoughts on any of this? Shoot 'em over — I always love hearing how you'd have tackled things differently.
Women founders get 2.3% of VC funding. Not because they lack vision, grit, or ideas, but because the playbook they've been handed was built for men. In this episode, I sit down with Anna Mazarsky, founder of PinkX PowerCore, the first tactical platform built to close the funding gap from the inside out. Anna spent nearly two decades inside the fundraising world. When she pulled the data, she didn't find a confidence problem. She found a systems problem, a bias problem, and a pattern-matching problem no amount of mindset coaching was ever going to fix. So she stopped coaching and started building. We get into why female-led VC funds aren't moving the needle, why women consistently ask for less than they've earned the right to raise, and why 80% of something will always beat 100% of nothing. The system wasn't built for us. Anna is building the one that is. Chapters:
Most people use AI like a chatbot: one short prompt, a back-and-forth, and a mediocre output that gets worse the longer the thread runs. In this Content to Close episode, Richmond Taylor breaks down a smarter way to think about AI across the whole go-to-market motion. Richmond uses the Feynman technique to simplify go-to-market into three connected functions, sales is how you speak, marketing is how you look, and customer success is how you get the second date, and explains where AI can take over 80 percent of the work in each. He digs into why prompt engineering is the single skill that determines whether AI helps you or hallucinates on you, walks through the four prompt categories (system, user, developer, assistant), and explains why one big detailed prompt beats twenty short follow-ups every time. If you want a practical view of where AI fits inside a real business cycle, and how to stop wasting tokens on prompts that contradict themselves, this episode is worth your time.About RichmondRichmond Taylor played professional soccer until he was 26, then channeled that discipline into building skills across sales, marketing, and customer success. He now runs his own business in the AI automation and education space, working with clients from enterprise down to SMB, and is the founder of a startup built to make prompt engineering easier for non-technical users. Richmond's perspective is that AI is not a replacement for creativity, it is a force multiplier for anyone willing to learn how to communicate with it.Show Notes- Connect with Richmond on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richmondbtaylor/- promptanything.ioText us what you think about this episode!
Dan Burnside thought he got a great deal on an $800k SDE business. Instead he'd bought bad faith and years of struggle.Register for the webinar: Add-Ons and Carve-Outs: How to Get Banks on Board - TODAY!! - https://bit.ly/4sO0MAtTopics in Dan's interview:Buying in a small, rural areaDiscovering seller fraud after acquisitionKey employee leaves and starts competing businessWorking to integrate himself into the communityHVAC techs resisted technology changesWife and kids unhappy in the new placeGetting his Master Mechanical Contractor licenseCustomers not paying their invoicesHiring challenges in rural areasBankruptcy and his new AI ventureReferences and how to contact Dan:LinkedInJan Roll on Acquiring Minds: 21 Months to Stability Buying a $1.2m SDE BusinessGet complimentary due diligence on your acquisition's insurance & benefits program:Oberle Risk Strategies - Search Fund TeamGet a free review of your books & financial ops from System Six (a $500 value):Book a call with Tim or hello@systemsix.com and mention Acquiring MindsThe ecosystem for serious acquisition entrepreneurs—education, capital, community, and post-close support to buy and grow a business:The Acquisition LabConnect with Acquiring Minds:See past + future interviews on the YouTube channelConnect with host Will Smith on LinkedInFollow Will on TwitterEdited by Anton Rohozov and produced by Pam Cameron
Master the Microsoft co-sell evolution today. Subscribe to our Newsletter:https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this deep-dive panel discussion, industry experts Erin Figer, Erika Irby, and Reis Barrie celebrate the 10-year anniversary of the Microsoft Co-Sell program by dissecting its evolution from its 2016 inception to today's data-driven, outcome-focused landscape. The group explores the critical shift from transactional sales to modern, frictionless co-sell motions, emphasizing the importance of signals, intentionality, and building credibility with Microsoft field teams. Whether you are navigating the complexities of the marketplace, struggling with reseller enablement, or looking to integrate AI into your sales process, this conversation offers actionable insights to align your organization's go-to-market strategy with Microsoft's evolving priorities and achieve results. https://youtu.be/KV1MGSoyWbQ Key Takeaways Effective co-selling has shifted from autonomous, fragmented motions to a highly collaborative, data-driven approach essential for modern cloud GTM strategies. Credibility is the currency of partnership; without trust from vendors and customers, technical go-to-market motions will fail to produce long-term outcomes. The “REO” (Reseller Enablement Offering) model is an operational unlock for ISVs to go global and sell local without the friction of multi-party private offers. Integrating AI into CRM systems is vital for identifying total addressable market (TAM) signals and maintaining sales velocity. “Don’t automate a bad process” remains the cardinal rule; technology should be used to refine existing, successful motions, not to propagate inefficient ones. The human element—community, in-person events, and empathy—is a necessary differentiator in an increasingly digital, automated B2B landscape. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags Microsoft Azure, Co-sell evolution, Hyperscaler strategy, SMB partner investment, Cloud Marketplace, Veeam GTM, Partner Center alignment, Channel enablement, REO, Cloud consumption, ISV scaling, Go-to-market optimization, Partner-led growth, Azure consumption, Channel friction reduction, Outcome-driven sales, Microsoft ecosystem, Revenue acceleration, Partner alignment. Transcript Erin Figer Panel For Cut Out [00:00:00] Vince Menzione: So when we, so, uh, this all started ’cause I was trying to figure out what was next when I left Microsoft and I had this woman who was doing work, actually starting the co-selling process when we first started doing co-selling. And she was working with one of our partners and she was working with my team when I was at Microsoft. [00:00:17] And then I said, this lady knows a lot about this stuff. So I reached out, I left Microsoft, I said, I think we can help each other. Like, I think we’re gonna, I got these companies that I spoke at Microsoft’s conference. They’re like, can you come help us out? And we teamed up. And, uh, we’ve been friends and doing fun stuff ever since. [00:00:34] And she’s spoken at just about every event in some capacity or another, whether it was on stage or a workshop. Aaron Feiger. And then, uh, I, I found, I also, through Aaron, I met this other gentleman who had another company and he was doing amazing work with ISVs or SDCs, uh, Reese Barry from Carve. And then, uh, when I think we started up the event, I mean, Erica Irby came to one of our first events and spoke on stage. [00:00:58] I was like, yeah, this. The person knows what she’s doing. So I’ve asked the three of them to come up and kind of round out and end the day, but all three of ’em have a tremendous, uh, background in this whole process of co-selling go to market strategies. And I thought you, you can, I’m just giving it over to the three of you. [00:01:17] Erin Figer: I we don’t need [00:01:18] Vince Menzione: a, you don’t needer you don’t need a clicker and you, you know what you’re all gonna be talking about. But these are some really smart people about how to partner with Microsoft. So, yeah. No, thank you for having us. [00:01:27] Erin Figer: Um, hello. Hello. I think this is on. All right. So actually we’re gonna do an exercise. [00:01:32] Um, I want everyone to close their eyes. Close your eyes. Close your eyes. All right. I want you to think back to January of 2016. What were you doing? Where were you in your career? What company were you working for? What was going on in your Microsoft partnership in January of 2016? Okay, Erica, what was happening for you? [00:01:59] Erika Irby: So, uh, is this on? Sorry, I cannot tell. Um, I was at Veeam for the first time. We had just launched our first, uh, endpoint backup, uh, product in April of the previous year because nobody knew what cloud was yet, and people were scared. So we had to launch that product. And we had a relationship with Microsoft in a sense that about 20% of our business sat on Hyper V. [00:02:25] That equated to about, I think like around 90 ish million dollars, which at the time was incredible for us. But to Microsoft was, you know, like, who are you guys again? And, um, we begged and begged to have any type of communication with them. Events. Funding nothing. We did not know what Azure consumption was. [00:02:43] We didn’t have any of that information. And if somebody would’ve told me at that time that nine years later we would sign a five year contract with them and have multiple products dedicated to Microsoft, I would’ve been like, y’all are bananas. [00:02:58] Erin Figer: Reese, what were you doing in January of 2016? [00:03:00] Reis Barrie: Uh, let’s see, Jan, 2016, I was moving from Orlando, Florida to Seattle, Washington, uh, sight unseen with no place to stay. [00:03:10] Uh, to take a job at a place called Microsoft or Consulting Gig, a place called Microsoft. Um, kicking off some of the cool motions that we’re, uh, we’re gonna talk about today, I think. [00:03:20] Erin Figer: Does anybody know the significance of January, 2016 in the audience? Any takers? It was the launch of Cosell officially for Microsoft. [00:03:31] Congratulations. We’re celebrating 10 years of officially. Problematizing how you connect with the Microsoft sales organization in a programmatic at scale way. And try to build meaningful relationships. And I have been helping partners since the inception of Microsoft’s Cosell program. Um, I was on the partner side, Reese was on the inside. [00:03:59] You were at a partner. So we have all seen the evolution of Cosell across all three hyperscalers launching, you know, their co-sell initiatives. So I just wanted to take a moment to recognize. I didn’t know how many people realized that it’s been 10 years, it’s 10 year anniversary. I think it’s a big milestone. [00:04:15] Huge. So. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we, you know, when they launched it, I went, I was consulting for a startup outta Boston and we were trying to get Microsoft’s attention, competitor to fame, and I went to the business development guy and said, uh, do you, did you just see this program that Microsoft launched? I think we should include this in our branding strategy and we should use co-sell as a way to get our brand out to Microsoft and be able to tell our story of who we are and what we’re doing and that we’re in their accounts and they don’t even know it. [00:04:55] ’cause we’re the startup out of Boston who switched over from AWS to Microsoft. And we did, and I put every single opportunity in the system I could for the first six months, which was the last six months of their fiscal year. We go to partner of the, we go to, what was it called? Them WPCI think at the time. [00:05:13] Mm-hmm. Uh, in Vegas. And Nasuni won wins like all four wards worldwide. US Education, healthcare Partner of the year because I put 117 deals in the system and then it seeded Na Sunni’s Marketing for the next two years. ’cause Microsoft gave them tons of money and attention and we were off to the races. [00:05:35] Right. And then it was, can you repeat that? And we went and repeated it with Red Hat and Rubrik and Nintex and Quest and. I don’t know, lots more. But it was, it’s been fun journey co-selling. And it’s interesting to see now, um, how we continue 10 years later to evolve co-sell. And so Erica, what were some of the takeaways you had today listening to the conversation about how co-sell, how you’re modernizing and co-sell is changing inside your organization, especially now being a boomerang. [00:06:08] Erika Irby: Yeah, well we call it a Veeam ring ’cause everything a veer ring, everything has to start with with Veeam. Well, one thing I was gonna comment on, I think I’m sitting here thinking how wild is it that back in the day we actually had to define that co-sell was an action that, that, you know, partners and vendors needed to take or, and different vendors and alliances. [00:06:25] I mean, now we can’t even imagine going to market without, you know, that, that attach. But at the time, we were just very autonomous and everybody sold their own product and it, it took like this actual motion, um, to get us working together. But now look at us. I mean, this community is incredible. And we can also see this by, and even when AGU was mentioning earlier, all the bosses he had in his room, I mean. [00:06:47] How many people like know each other. I mean, this is like part of that, that ecosystem. But today, um, a couple of things I took away, and by the way, we want a lot of interactions, so we’re going to kind of throw it back out at you guys. But for me, um, outcomes came up repeatedly that was mentioned multiple times about outcomes. [00:07:04] Um, speed with intentionality. I think that was super critical. We have to go to market. There has to be a sense of urgency, but if we’re not intentional, it’s like, what are we doing? It’s just like a big mess. Um, and then credibility. And this is something I think is super important, regardless of, um, all of our emotions, all of our go to market, all of the, the things that we do, if we are not credible or not building trust with our vendors, our, our co-partners, our customers, we will never be successful. [00:07:35] Um, so those are the three main things that I took away from, from everybody talking today. And I, I thought, I mean, to me personally, I thought those were pretty powerful. [00:07:42] Yeah. [00:07:42] Erika Irby: So we’d love to hear. [00:07:43] Erin Figer: Yeah. And I know Reese, you have been doing a lot around outcomes and changing kind of the cosal, um, intention. [00:07:54] Reis Barrie: Yeah. The, uh, the, just thinking back to today, like that was like such a, it was really a, a big key theme of today. Like everyone talked about, whether it’s pivot of, of sales, partnership, um, even when you’re talking about AI and some of the, the, uh. POC discussions. So the live like type of stuff, everything was centered around that narrative. [00:08:17] And so, um, and it’s the same with, it’s the same with partnerships. It’s the same with your co-sell motion, same with your benefits utilization, um, and the way you’re utilizing partnerships. And so that’s, that’s a huge, huge component of, um, what I also took away from today. Um, and then somebody, I think it was Mark who said it that I’m gonna, I’m gonna steal this because the, the whole, um. [00:08:40] Near and dear to my heart of like, don’t, don’t scale automate ai, A-I-F-I-A bad process. Like as someone who deals with like, for the most part, bad processes, like day in and day out, um, and trying to refine them and improve them. Like, that’s one of the first things that we, uh, that we talk to partners about when it comes to their partnership and, and the processes they have in place. [00:09:03] So those are like two really big, just takeaways from [00:09:06] Erin Figer: Yeah. Nice. So we’re here to learn from each other, right? Like this is an ultimate partner community of learning from each other. So I’d really love to hear from the audience, like what are some of the things you’re doing in your cloud? Go to market approach and co-selling that you’re trying out. [00:09:23] Either you tried it, you failed fast, you learned from that, that you can share those lessons learned or like what’s working and how are you changing to be more outcome driven in your cloud go to market, uh, approach. Any takers in wanting to experience share? Great. Give that man a mic. [00:09:50] Audience Member: The SMB investments. Um, these, these new, I don’t know what they are. I partner accelerators, PBAs, uh, there’s kind of something going on in the SMB space where it just seems like they’re coming outta the woodwork to come help. On deals. I’ve never seen Microsoft really embrace the customer that they, the way they have in SMB in the cos sells. [00:10:10] I’m not sure if anybody else is seen that, but seems to be working. It’s two things. One, you at Data 60 [00:10:22] America. [00:10:54] I think, I think part of the rarity there is that. Typically you wouldn’t get a seller attached, right? They’re unmanaged that they’re kind of in the nobody cares category, but, [00:11:06] um. So Microsoft made a huge investment in the distribution space saying we’re gonna lean on distribution to help enable our 165,000 indirect resellers that we have as a business. And part of that enablement goes back to field sales alignment. So there’s these roles, ca roles called um, partner Solutions Sellers, PS. [00:11:30] And so they’re aligned by, um, solutions architecture, if you will, for Microsoft. So, or cloud solution area, whatever the new term, modern work, uh, or, uh, AI work, AI workforce, um, data and ai. And so they are there to help support your deal. So it’s, it’s a huge investment and one that I would just can say continue to advocate for it if you’re seeing success with it, because I mean, we’re heading into FY 27 planning for Microsoft. [00:11:58] So. Like there, there could be role changes. So I would say if it, if it’s helpful, like make sure you’re talking positively about it. [00:12:05] Reis Barrie: Yeah, yeah. Just to, to your point, like I, I’d say like, um, in the last six to 12 months, like that’s been a, a thing that’s like we’ve to go back and like, I mean we manage a portfolio of a couple dozen, dozen partners at this point, and so we’ve had to go back and rewrite some of our playbooks, reeducate some of. [00:12:26] Uh, some of the partnership folks that we use because, um, historically you kind of get into this like void of, you’re in partner center, you’re picking, you know, account alignment and it’s not managed. And so it’s like, okay, I expect to do nothing with this deal on the Microsoft side from a co-sell standpoint. [00:12:42] Um, but that’s kind of, that’s changed quite a bit, um, in the last six months where, um, it’s not like a, it’s hard to create, it’s hard to create processes and dependence around it ’cause it’s not like a guarantee that you’ll get, you get engagement, but. Uh, you see more eng engagement, more on more and more deals. [00:12:58] Um, and so we’ve had to go back and work with some of our partners to rewrite some of our, uh, deal sharing playbooks to account for, uh, things like that, which is, it’s super cool to see, frankly, um, to see engagement on these, like predominantly. [00:13:12] Erin Figer: So in that motion. So first off, for the folks that are on the other side of this black curtain by the food station, if you guys could please stop the conversation. [00:13:19] It’s really hard to pay attention to what’s going on in this room. Um. Thank you. Thank [00:13:25] Erika Irby: you for saying that. [00:13:26] Erin Figer: That was a great, that was a great, that’s a great point. And what I wanna talk about next is like in order to kind of continue to evolve the playbooks and they’re changing and people are changing, and priorities are changing, what are some of the signals that you guys are using internally in your organization, whether you’re building or buying, um, but would love to learn from all of you. [00:13:46] What kind of signals are you looking at to help you continue to like co-innovate, co-sell, co-market? Um, in your go-to market strategies? [00:13:58] Audience Member: Yeah, [00:13:58] Erin Figer: please. Um, [00:14:00] Audience Member: well, I’m, I’m, we’re building everything from scratch right now because we’re brand is integration. [00:14:39] Like having our, our engineer be able to interact with product [00:14:43] Erin Figer: engineer. [00:14:50] I’m gonna pick on trend ’cause I had just spent last week with them and Sanjay, I think like what you guys are building internally, um, using signals, building it into an AI agent. To help you understand your tam, you wanna share a little bit. [00:15:06] Audience Member: Happy to, and I’ll disclose. The first thing I did was hire Aaron Feiger to run my co-sell operations, uh, for the, for the second time. [00:15:12] It’s [00:15:13] Erin Figer: nice to be a GDI again [00:15:14] Audience Member: for the second, so well planted. Um, but honestly, like I can’t have an environment where I fail my sellers, like this process has to be frictionless in co-sell and marketplace operations. Or I lose trust in my own house, let alone in my channel and in my customer base. So. Uh, building that strong foundation is like job number one. [00:15:34] I’ve been, I spent a decade at Trend. I’m back, uh, five weeks on the job now. Um, but I’d say we’ve built a multi hundred million dollar cloud marketplace business thinking highly transactional. And what we’re trying to pivot to is a highly dated driven approach where we can look at any cloud in any region around the world, figure out roughly how many accounts they have. [00:15:57] Figure out what those customers are spending and things that we can protect from a cybersecurity standpoint, knowing that four or 5% of that total spend will be spent on cybersecurity, doing an overlap of where I have existing customers in that drawing a tam, overlapping that with my incumbent partners to get the Venn diagram of like, where’s my sweet spot to move this forward? [00:16:18] And then where’s my blast radius? So when I sit down with a guy leading France, or a person leading healthcare. I can have a really specific opportunity about how to leverage my cloud partnerships to accelerate deals and expand growth in a very surgical, data-driven, propensity driven way. And it like totally changes the conversation. [00:16:40] And the other thing we’ve done because you get a lot of pushback and when you’re working with Microsoft, uh, I was chatting with a few folks today, like if you’re in cybersecurity, it’s not easy. They got a 25 billion ish dollars cybersecurity business. So you gotta find your swim lanes. And the dialogue I have now internally with my sellers is a major League baseball analogy, which is, if you play major league baseball and if you hit the ball 30% of the time, you’re gonna go to this little thing called the Hall of Fame, right? [00:17:07] If you bat 300, if you’re in sales and Microsoft, or Amazon or whoever helps you, 30% of the time, you’re gonna go to this thing called President’s Club. That’s the difference between sitting at home in Ohio and sitting with your beach. You know, your, your toes in the sand. So it’s, we’re really trying to change. [00:17:25] Uh, one of the first things I ask my team is, what’s our brand promise to our sales leaders and our sales team? And if you don’t know that answer, you got a fricking problem. So you gotta get that. What’s your Brene Brown would call it? What’s your North Star? What are your values? Whatcha are you gonna deliver? [00:17:38] Right? So you gotta get that right and then you gotta be relentless in making it frictionless. And then you gotta hire Aaron Fier to run your co-sell. [00:17:46] Erin Figer: Okay? Okay. And so, I mean, I think like that’s a trend that I’m seeing across the partners that I’ve been working with is how they’re using data and doing more data driven, um, decision making and getting to their TAM faster so that as they start to then look at this pathway of, okay, now I’m trying to go to market, what. [00:18:11] Programs does Microsoft have or my other partners have that I can use to move me down that path faster. But getting that tam and feeling more confident about it, like, this is the group, this is the subgroup that I’m gonna start with until I see something that says, oh, I need to deviate and do something different. [00:18:30] Um, so I’m definitely seeing that trend. Like what are you seeing, uh, what are you guys doing at Vem? [00:18:35] Erika Irby: Um, so a couple different things. So like you were saying, we, we do leverage, um, AI more, uh, recently for New Deal Reg, um, automation. And we lit, literally just launched it this week. So this is the week that it’s exciting until the, someone tries to use it for the first time and then for. [00:18:52] Um, so I can’t wait to see my emails later, but, um, it, it’s, we’re seeing like that, that that movement, which is, uh, definitely good for that. We have a task force internally for marketing, so trying to figure out how we’re gonna, um, you know, leverage that, uh, um, internally. And I think that Veeam, you know, they, they have been on the forefront of technology for, for a while. [00:19:12] You know, they were the first with the. Virtual backup and, you know, all these things, you know, really trying to be ahead of the thing, ahead of the game. But, um, one thing I, I, I love how many people brought up the intentionality and the mindfulness because I think sometimes we can easily. Put out a whole bunch of tools. [00:19:28] I love that you called out the point about the bad processes, um, because it actually, I think, can just create more confusion, more of a mess, and that, um, really mindfulness will be so much more beneficial, you know, down the road for your partners, for your customers, for everybody that has to, you know, do that interaction business with you. [00:19:47] I did wanna call out that I thought it was lovely that you had a positive comment about Microsoft. I dunno if I, [00:19:53] Audience Member: yeah, [00:19:53] Erika Irby: I like rarely hear that. So like, awesome. I hope that does get back to Microsoft. I hope that they do, um, continue that. I’m sure their SMB is quite a bit bigger than maybe others, but that is a massive install base for, for Veeam as well. [00:20:07] And even though we’re driving and trying to push into the enterprise, protecting that install base is just absolutely critical for success. [00:20:15] Erin Figer: What about you race? [00:20:17] Reis Barrie: So if I’m looking at like signals, I, I think. Uh, I’ll focus on too, I think you mentioned, uh, the, the cycles of change at Microsoft. Like it used to be an annual thing and now it’s like a, then it was a half base thing, and then it was a, now it’s a quarterly thing basically. [00:20:30] Um, but there’s also like, there’s, there’s big signals and small signals, and so annually we still get like that, like the, the, the guiding direction so that we can align. How we talk about ourselves, how we talk about our partnership, how, how we enable our sellers and whatnot. And then we got a lot of programmatic shifts from a, from a quarter to quarter standpoint. [00:20:50] Um, and so focusing on the, like these, um, these signals so we can align our, our messaging and our frameworks to align with, with, with our partnership, um, is, is one thing that’s, you know, super, super important to keep, keep tabs on. Um, and the second one, I’ll, I’ll give, you’ll. Mention is more on the cus sorry, uh, customer side, but like the seller enablement. [00:21:15] And so how is your, on the marketplace side, how, how are your sellers talking to your customers about marketplace? Um, are they, are they bringing up earlier in the, in the qualifying discussions of how does the customer prefer to buy? Um, are there fire drills with two weeks to go, um, till the, till the deal closes and now the customer wants to go marketplace and, and no one knows how to do it? [00:21:37] Um, seen that way too many times. Um, and so, but how, how, like studying kind of the, uh, maturity of our sales org to see well, like where, where, where is our, our, where are our sellers competent to have this marketplace discussion? Um, because I often relate, like, this is kinda a silly analogy, but I, I, simple stuff works really, really well with me. [00:22:00] But I like, have you ever been to a farmer’s market and you’re like nervous to buy something? ’cause you don’t know if they take credit card. [00:22:07] Audience Member: Yeah. [00:22:07] Reis Barrie: And so like to me, I’m like, okay, well, like it’s the same thing with Marketplace to me. And so like, it’s, it’s the same concept of you want your customer to be able to buy, they want the way that they would like to buy. [00:22:19] Um, and you want the person that they’re interacting with to be able to, um, facilitate that, that transaction in, in a way that feels frictionless. Yeah. Right. Uh, and so that’s a lot. Like, those are the kind of, the really two deep signals, um, that we, we look at a lot. [00:22:37] Erika Irby: I wanna make a comment on the marketplace. [00:22:38] So I don’t know if anybody else is experiencing this, you know, Veeam being an ISV, we have a really strong traditional, traditional channel motion. So, to your point about how sellers are, are managing the marketplace, to be totally honest, we struggle on, um, that, because right now it feels like a deal that goes to the marketplace is taken away from a reseller, and that reseller loses out then on that upfront margin and. [00:23:06] Um, there’s not a clean path necessarily for, you know, just because the, the deal happened there. They really, they still need to maintain that because they’re the one pri providing the services. And somebody had brought up earlier that, um, A SMB customer will never be successful without a partner. And I, I totally agree with that, but it’s like that part is missing. [00:23:26] So we almost need like a mindset change. In the channel where the marketplace is just a route to market and how the customer receives the product. It shouldn’t totally matter because at the end of the day, the, they still have to provide the services. It’s like, I could go to Home Depot and purchase a bunch of pipe for my house, but can I install it a thousand percent? [00:23:49] No. I would destroy my house. I used to have to have a plumber. So I think there’s, we could help our channel by changing that mindset, and at the same time, we, we need the marketplace owners to, to provide the benefits so that it is still very attractive for those traditional. Partners to, to push their customers there or else I, I think we’re just gonna constantly have that strife. [00:24:11] Erin Figer: Yeah. Does anyone in the audience, has anyone in the audience activated REO with Microsoft? You have? Yeah. So how’s it, like, how’s it going? Yeah, there’s Bump. Yeah. [00:24:32] Audience Member: How that shifts making people more effective in their roles individually. So we’re early stage of it, but it’s, it’s been a good experience. [00:24:42] Erin Figer: Has it helped to kind of unlock some of that friction with the resellers and continuing to include them to get to the s and b customers? [00:24:49] Audience Member: Yeah, I think the, the challenge that we’re working through right now is, you know, Erica may have said it, but it’s. [00:24:56] It’s not just the, the view of the marketplace taking people out of the equation, it’s how do we use the marketplace for, for co-innovation to keep people in it. So if, if, if it’s gonna take three to five of, of us in this room to deliver that spectrum to innovation for the customer. Um, how do we use the marketplace as a force multiplier of bringing that together and making that transaction easy? [00:25:21] Yeah. If, if our consumers are more and more influenced by Instagram and TikTok Shop Now buttons, like my husband’s texting me about my stuff that showed up today, [00:25:31] Erika Irby: which is none of his business. [00:25:32] Audience Member: None of your business. That’s right. Just put it [00:25:36] Erika Irby: in my room. Thank you. [00:25:37] Audience Member: If people are, people as consumers in the, in the u, us consumer based economy is driving more and more people through like that social experience of purchasing, that is an area where I do think Microsoft could help us and we could help ourselves in marketing how that, how we leverage it to be a force multiplier versus another omnichannel. [00:25:58] Well, [00:25:58] Erin Figer: so on that note, how many of you have put a button on your website? Click to buy? Yeah, [00:26:02] Audience Member: that’s, that’s where I’m at with our marketing team. [00:26:04] Erin Figer: Right? [00:26:04] Audience Member: Yeah. That’s, I think, the next evolution for us in the, in the REO piece. [00:26:08] Erin Figer: Yeah. Yeah. [00:26:10] Audience Member: I, I don’t want it on our website. I want to, I want it on my Instagram, my LinkedIn, my TikTok reels. [00:26:15] That’s, we’re going to, sir, it’s coming next week at our sales kickoff. Yeah. [00:26:21] Erin Figer: Nice, nice. Anybody else? Uh, activated. REO [00:26:28] besides the, you know, RE speed wagon? Uh, it’s the Microsoft Reseller Enablement. Um, offering, so like you activate your resellers to just take your listing and be able to do a private offer so that you don’t have to do multi-party private offers anymore. Your resellers can just take the listing and sell it directly, and they don’t have to wait for you to send them the offer. [00:26:52] Then they have to go do, so it takes out some of the steps and that friction in the process streamlines it and it allows them to like. Add on and do their own pricing. And then the reseller, however you have your arrangement with that reseller, continues to pay you in the back end for, um, selling that through the marketplace. [00:27:11] Erika Irby: I think I’m going to have you come and do a webinar for our Veeam partners to, to help them with that, because to your point, I don’t, I don’t think it’s as prevalent yet. It’s, it hasn’t really caught on. [00:27:21] Erin Figer: Yeah. It’s been really an unlock of, I had a large, um, ISV that I helped. We implemented REO internally, so they have 34 marketplace offerings and they have this initiative. [00:27:36] They wanted to go global, sell local, and so they launched five more publishing accounts and they came to me and said, we need to replicate our catalog five times 34. And I was like, oh God, please, no. And luckily like two months later, Microsoft, like GAed, uh, REO, and I was like, here’s your answer. We’re not going to do that. [00:27:58] We’re going to enable each of your publishing accounts to be resellers of your quote unquote gold standard publishing account, and that we actually implemented REO as an internal mechanism for them to issue their own publishing accounts, to resell private offers in local currencies. Um, and that was really an operational unlock for them. [00:28:25] All right. Anybody you wanna ask a question to the audience? [00:28:29] Audience Member: Okay. I’ll just keep going. [00:28:32] Erin Figer: Um, all right. So what are some other, um, signals or ways that you guys are evolving the way you’re co-selling? Um, does anybody else have some experience shares that they want to, to share with the audience? We’ve got, we’re using data, uh, we’re using some ai, we’re helping us get to our audience faster. [00:28:51] I really loved work span, um, building in an AI tool inside your CRM system, um, so that you can get some of those signals. Any other signals that you guys are using, uh, to change the way you’re co-selling? [00:29:07] It’s quiet on [00:29:07] Reis Barrie: Maybe, maybe I’ll share one, but Yeah. Yeah. So, um, just when it comes to, like, for us, account alignment to me is like one of the most important things and consistently doing, uh, you know, account planning and account alignment against Microsoft their accounts. Um, now it’s a bit interesting ’cause you can include some s and b stuff in there. [00:29:27] Um, but also, uh, Jason you mentioned up there, the. Uh, marketplace rewards, having the propensity mapping. And so looking at not only from an account alignment, um, what Microsoft accounts are, we, um, you know, areas are we most penetrated in, but also of those accounts, which ones are already buying on marketplace. [00:29:47] Uh, maybe have a commitment to Microsoft in, in some way to help us just further, uh, further target and focus on, you know, if we have 500 opportunities that we’re trying to, um. I’m trying to work through, um, to Sanjay’s point, like what’s, what’s the 30% that I’m gonna get my batting average on? Um, and so that constant account alignment to us is like a, is a huge, huge signal, um, for us to focus on. [00:30:14] Um, and then you can even take it a layer deeper to identify, okay, well if I’m looking like, do I have density within Nina had the, the ou up here on the screen. So do I have densities with density within like specific. Uh, verticals or regions, um, or segments that I should maybe if I just focused on that one segment or one vertical, um, you know, then all of a sudden I, I’m super successful having an executive sponsorship in that, uh, in that ou, something like that. [00:30:44] Um, and, but that, that’s all starting with, um, the foundations of that being that consistent account alignment and leveraging some of the, some of the propensity stuff that Microsoft is, is providing. [00:30:56] Erin Figer: And then making sure you’re like bringing it back into your CRM and storing it so that you can continue to use that information ongoing. [00:31:03] And we’re trying to figure out how to embed more and more. [00:31:37] And are you integrating like. Microsoft and other partners into that data as well. It’s like, this is a great partner. Incorporate them at this point in the journey. Yeah, we um. [00:31:50] When [00:31:50] Audience Member: you’re in the process with, with Microsoft, we haven’t opened it up externally, so that’s our crawl, walk, run is we’re, we’re trying this out internally. Let’s see if we can work the bugs out, get the agents working, and then how do we now go to our MSP community and offer this up as an agent they can use within their sales team. [00:32:08] And on the end of. We’re still working in the middle, but front end profiling, it’s helping a ton, um, and giving us a lot of good intel that the sellers are driving through the agent on the back end. It’s, it’s giving us not, um, just propensity data, but what’s resonating. So if we launched 12 products this year and we trained sellers on. [00:32:28] What’s hitting, where’s my pipeline velocity coming from? Where’s my close rate coming from? So that every month when we have our sales town hall, it’s like, here’s the top three sales motions that are actually driving pipeline and fast to cash close rates. [00:32:42] Erin Figer: And I gotta imagine that helps you get to your differentiators. [00:32:45] Audience Member: Oh [00:32:45] Erin Figer: yeah. And refining your superpower story. [00:32:48] Audience Member: That’s right. That’s. Yeah, because it’s for, for our sales team. I mean, we were talking about it earlier, it’s all about simplification. There’s so many options, so much noise. It’s like, just go focus on these three things and this is where you’re gonna deliver impact and outcomes to your customer. [00:33:01] And if we’re doing that, we’re all winning. [00:33:03] Erika Irby: Yeah. I, I, um, just recently, this is why one of the coolest things that Veeam has done, we just launched this tool called, um, expansion iq, and it’s part of our command, the expand motion this year where we’re really. Upselling and cross-selling our, um, install base. [00:33:17] This tool takes all the partners individual propensity data, puts it against four solution plays that we think are the main plays, and then provides them, this is what you could be earning if you took this motion. And then from a marketing perspective, we provide them. And to do this, here’s your campaign. [00:33:37] Here’s your this, here’s your that. Step one, send this email. Like very, very, you know, just, uh, planned out. And I loved what Nina said earlier today when she shared that, um, org chart. Essentially with all the different, um, industry focuses we are driving. One of our go to market actions is a Microsoft healthcare campaign. [00:33:56] That is like very, very specific, but it’s helping our partners in that manner. Could they go to their own database and pull their own and do all this stuff? Of course. But for our sellers to go blink and then give them a report and be like, here it is. It makes it so much more relevant. And then the steps just, they just hand that to their marketing org and then they’re just off and running. [00:34:18] Going back into your team to say, Hey, we rolled out these 12 things, only three landing. You gotta go back to the drawing on the other side. Or We need more money for these three. Yeah, but let’s figure what’s not with customer [00:34:38] to record the. [00:34:47] Audience Member: A better, faster, uh, listening post for, uh, can I talk really loud? Um, it’s, it’s, it’s helped turning on a listening post for our engineering, our marketing, our service delivery organization that would’ve taken months or quarters to get spun up in an executive board meeting or something. Right now they get it real time every week. [00:35:09] Okay. [00:35:09] Erin Figer: So what I’m hearing, like the theme here is to really like. Understand your sales process. Also, your co-sell sales process that runs in parallel with that. And how do you continue to serve up the right data at the right time to help your people take the right next action to continue to drive those outcomes that you’re looking for, but then also using data to circle it back, to say what’s working, what’s not working, to continue to refine that whole motion. [00:35:43] Um, so if you’re not doing that, I think that’s a big aha moment and takeaway, uh, from today’s session or from here today is like, okay, am I really identifying all the opportunities in my process to involve data to help my people continue to drive outcomes? [00:36:04] Audience Member: You [00:36:04] Erin Figer: have a, [00:36:05] Audience Member: you have your head in up back there, Gary. [00:36:06] Yeah. I, I couldn’t tell if, uh, you were prompting me when you asked that question and I, I didn’t want to, you know, do a shameless plug for cloud, but I think everybody [00:36:15] Erin Figer: should shamelessly plug, plug away. [00:36:16] Audience Member: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you brought up a mitt and, uh, the co-sell thing, but it, it does relate to what Reese had said about, um, you know, the being at the farmer’s market and. [00:36:26] Not sure what, you know, can I use a credit card or not? And I think that, um, or [00:36:30] Erin Figer: can I use Apple Pay? I still ask. I’m like, do you, do you accept Apple Pay? [00:36:32] Audience Member: Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it’s like, I think, uh, a lot of times you don’t understand the seller in that situation is not sure how to handle that conversation. So, and there’s not a lot of information about their, about that. [00:36:44] Like how to, when it comes to a seller talking about marketplace and asking about the commit. Because the commit obviously is one of the main drivers, right? 900 billion out there. And committed spend across all the hyperscalers. So how to actually bring that up with a customer and what if they don’t know, right? [00:37:05] So there’s a whole process that, you know, they, they need to be taught this. But the first thing that’s also come up multiple times is activating them also means how to engage them. So an approach there of how to engage your salespeople is critical because if salespeople aren’t in it, they’re nothing’s happening. [00:37:23] You’re not gonna do well with marketplace. And on the co-sell part, it’s kinda the same thing. The typical thing, and I remember talking to Aldo Desal about this at another Ultimate Partner event, but uh, you bring your salespeople into a call, like you set up a call with, with Microsoft and the seller comes in unprepared. [00:37:42] Typically they’re not sure what to say and it’s a little bit intimidating. How, how, how do I, you know, what do you do in this situation? Like, so you start talking about product ’cause that’s what you know, and it’s the last thing you want to do. You, you want to understand what they care about, like em stage and, and, uh, what’s your consumption story and what kind of MRR impact you’re gonna have. [00:38:03] So it’s, these things are just unusual topics for the salespeople to be prepared, uh, to talk about. But it’s critical if your salespeople are gonna be enabled that they can do that. So I think from a co-selling standpoint, that’s just what I want to mention. And by the way, we offered a tool that does that. [00:38:20] Erin Figer: Nice. Awesome. Thank you. Uh, I mean, I don’t know about you. Reese Cloud Atlas. Every time we helped an ISV with their cosell motion, we would say, okay, we’re ready to go share cos sells and drive introductions. Have you done your sales enablement? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We’ve enabled the sellers we have, and then we launch like the first batch of cos sells and then they immediately come back. [00:38:43] Stop, stop, stop. Don’t share any more deals, like we’re causing too much confusion. Uh, we didn’t do our sales enablement. Wow. Grace, [00:38:52] Reis Barrie: I mean, sound [00:38:53] Erin Figer: familiar? [00:38:53] Reis Barrie: It sounds very familiar. It sounds too familiar. Uh, P-T-S-D-A little bit there, but the, uh, sorry, [00:38:58] Erika Irby: but that’s why you guys have jobs. [00:39:00] Reis Barrie: Yes. Go on. It’s, it’s, um, but this, you know, I, I always come back to the, the concept of like, if we showed up to a Microsoft co-sell call the way we do to a customer call, like, oh. [00:39:14] Erin Figer: It, [00:39:14] Reis Barrie: it would, it would be night and day difference of the value you’d get outta your Microsoft partnership and co-sell. That’s all. It’s [00:39:20] Erin Figer: Well, [00:39:20] Reis Barrie: but I think people [00:39:21] Erin Figer: forget Microsoft is your customer too. [00:39:23] Reis Barrie: Yeah. [00:39:23] Erin Figer: They’re your partner, but you have to sell to before you can sell with and through. So you first gotta like master the sell to. [00:39:30] Reis Barrie: Yeah, a hundred percent. So there, there’s there like, and then to your point, [00:39:34] Erin Figer: it’s still true. 10 years later, people, it’s still true. Back to the fundamentals, right? [00:39:39] Reis Barrie: Yeah. It’s, [00:39:40] Erin Figer: yes. Go for it. [00:39:44] Audience Member: The, um, Microsoft being customer, right? So, and I love what you said about sem uh, alignment. So we actually made it a point, um, in our co-sell process, we have a validation checkpoint with Microsoft. If we build a co-sell packages, um, we are an si We’re not primarily ISV, but I think that’s shifting as well gradually. [00:40:10] And ESI kind of becoming a little bit of ISV. Um, so why it’s important, I think like Ree said, like you come up, you show up to co-sell call and you just pitch your services or say, well, let’s do account planning with this and that. Right? But what if it doesn’t work in the field? So that validation became critical for us, and I can tell you that now we have success stories that are actually proven based on that multifaceted feedback, uh, as to it’s one thing to build it. [00:40:46] Yeah. But is it useful for seller, for Microsoft sellers actually in the field? Can they actually position it and help clients to be more successful? Because that’s the ultimate goal. So that validation became, uh, an important checkpoint for us, uh, to make those packages repeatable and successful for customers at the end of the day. [00:41:06] So when we talk about signals, you absolutely right. It’s not just customer signals like we use ZoomInfo, we use all this data points, et cetera, but it’s also signals from the field because while Microsoft is a huge organization, they’re also very dynamic. On very regular basis, a lot of things changed. So taking those signals into account, uh, has created that, what we call like, more of a holistic approach for us, uh, to make it more meaningful. [00:41:33] So [00:41:34] Erin Figer: I like it. And you made it sticky by making it like a required point in the sales process? Absolutely. That everyone stops. Take a moment. [00:41:41] Audience Member: Yeah. [00:41:41] Erin Figer: And make sure that we’re all on the same page. [00:41:43] Audience Member: Yeah. And I think for us as si it’s even more critical. Like I, I, I think there is a lot more to happen in marketplace as, as, as much as we talk about it, but being in si I, we still kind of figure it out, like how Mark marketplace actually becomes a place of transaction for a size. [00:42:01] Yeah. So that’s why, you know, we’re passionate about packages and it’s not just a matter of publishing it and say, oh, it’s co-sell ready? Then what? Yeah. Right. So yeah, so, so that’s why that, that checkpoint is very important for us. So [00:42:16] Erin Figer: definitely, definitely. I think you ladies over here in the corner had some, some hands up, Michelle and, and the other Michelle, Michelle Squared. [00:42:26] Audience Member: Thank you. Michelle Squared. I like it. Um, so. I’ve been a little quiet because I wanna just give my background. So I’m a global VP of channels and alliances and, um, I think it’s a bit of this, uh, the movement, right? So I love your farmer’s market analogy so much. I’m gonna steal that. Thank you. But the reason is because you don’t know unless you’re gonna meet your partners where you are or meet your customers where they are in that journey. [00:42:53] So the first time that they’re selling whatever their goods or wares are, and somebody says, do you take Apple Pay? That’s a clue. And then when you hear it over and over again, you realize there’s a correlation that there’s a need in the market. So in In my life, all roads read to Romes, right? Reseller and VARs, OEM, alliances, MSPs, MSPs, ISVs System integrators. [00:43:17] And as a partner leader, you wouldn’t necessarily think marketplace is first because you feel like you’re going around your partners. But am I meeting my partners where they are in their journey and choosing to procure the way they want to procure? And I think that’s the notion that I have a lot of learning from this team and everyone in this room to understand how do we in a company. [00:43:38] Prescribe the right solution to, to meet our partners in that journey. And I’ll use, kind of circling back to the MSP space, PAX eight, one of Microsoft’s largest partners created a marketplace dedicated to MSPs. And while I was the global Channel chief of SonicWall, a lot of partners said to me, I like you. [00:43:56] I like your products, I like your firewall, but unless you’re on the park, PAX eight Marketplace, I’m not gonna buy from you because they make my life frictionless. And easier to do business with. And I think that’s the motion that every vendor in this room needs to understand is, are we truly meeting our partners where they are? [00:44:14] PS I work for Carrero DDoS Solutions and come to talk to me about that. Thank you. [00:44:18] Erika Irby: Well, and a Guo owes you some money for that commercial right there. [00:44:30] Audience Member: From, we’re actually community first. Um, as an MSP, even though we’re national, like we really focus in on community local touch. Um. Like you said, um, um, Southern seldom me in a southern way. Like that’s what we focus on. I’m your [00:44:45] Erin Figer: huckleberry. [00:44:46] Audience Member: I love that. Exactly. Um, and we’re seeing a ton of success with actual in-person events now. [00:44:53] Like the majority of our business is come in, leads are coming from that right now. And even though, like I, I truly believe in digital first motions, we need to be on Instagram and have that self-serve motion as the next generation comes up in our. Buying and transitioning to their kids or whatever that looks like. [00:45:14] Like we have to remember that there’s also a trend of tactile in person people first coming with it. And so like we, I, I feel like there, there has to be that motion engaged and I would love to hear your thoughts around how are vendors thinking about engaging in that community driven approach, not just the platform itself. [00:45:37] Erika Irby: Yeah, I, I personally also, this is hilarious ’cause we’re like best friends, so we can talk about this later, but, um, from a Veeam perspective, Michelle, um, we are seeing a resurgence in like these thought leadership type of events. And I think there’s, this is, this is sort of related, but just to, this is kind of how I think about this. [00:45:57] Um, Barnes and Noble’s business has like gone through the roof lately, and they are, they’re actually like opening more stores, which is bananas because at one point they were like going outta business because nobody wanted to go and like, touch a book or talk to somebody. But that is changing, thank God. [00:46:11] Right? That is like changing and people are actually like becoming more social because they’re missing this. Um, my kids’ generation refers to places like Barnes and Nobles as the third place. Like this magical place that exists where you can talk to a real human that’s not on your phone. Like it’s, it’s amazing. [00:46:28] But anyways, we’re, I think we’re starting to see this in marketing. We used to like pump everything out digitally, but after a while people get that form and they’re like, I am not putting my dang information in this form. And then your ability to capture that lead completely dissipates. All it is, is, is now an impression, which is. [00:46:47] Fairly worthless. You can have millions of them and nothing happens. So we are definitely investing more into, um, uh, live events, but also with the live streaming because then people can, they’re still watching it live. They still have to register for it. They knew they couldn’t make it. So I think that there’s definitely that digital aspect that’s super helpful. [00:47:05] But a purely digital, you will never make that connection. [00:47:10] Erin Figer: Yeah, I mean, I think. Unfortunately, COVID made us, you know, all do things digitally. But now that we’re past that, getting back to that multifaceted approach, I think if we think about what’s going on in the B2C world, lots of communities within communities, there’s whole company’s getting created, like women are bringing women together to do craft circles. [00:47:37] And literally. Okay. But like I did that digitally. That was pretty awesome. I was like three years. That shameless plug. No, I, no. But like then now there’s like companies that are actually like renting space, bringing people together, like crafting and while they’re doing the activity, um, if anyone’s ever done therapy, a therapist will say. [00:48:01] You know, if you wanna get your kids talking, get them coloring, like distract them and they will start to open up. And so you distract people with an activity and they start to open up. And what they really are, thrive, like what they really need is in this digital world where we’re getting so much information, we still need. [00:48:22] The next layer of filter to help us vet out and validate and confirm like our thinking or like our suspicions on things like, am I in the right going down the right path? Is this the right direction? So there’s still a human element that needs to be involved in that buyer journey, and you’re seeing that with these little micro communities inside communities. [00:48:45] Um, and so I’ve. I mean, I love micro communities inside of bigger communities. I’ve started two of them, three of them. So I, it definitely, like, we need still that in person, uh, interaction and I love seeing it coming back in our space. [00:49:04] Erika Irby: I, I was just thinking about ear, the, the previous panel and the, the topic came up about who can assist partners as they transition from that direct to CSP motion. [00:49:15] And I mean, yes, it, I think Microsoft plays a role there, but I think it would behoove Microsoft to invest in these communities and they would enable that change. Yeah, [00:49:26] Erin Figer: yeah, yeah. There is a person inside of Microsoft who has that remit, but she’s like one person, one person trying to do that. I was like, wow. [00:49:36] Okay. Grace, what are you seeing amongst your partners and also your perspective with working with Microsoft? [00:49:42] Reis Barrie: Yeah, yeah. Um. There’s a really good, uh, the frontier study, the work like door work study that they did, um, which talks really heavily about just like in this, you know, post 20, you know, 2020 culture, how like the amount of busyness has just increased in an insane amount and how a, a really strong use case for AI is to buybacks from that time essentially, um, for us to, you know, return back to a, a normal state and I think social creatures, right? [00:50:10] And so, um, in this. I run a fully remote company, which is like a blessing and also like really interesting to try to create a really strong culture within people that are, you know, 13 times zones apart times. Um, and so it’s uh, it’s a really interesting thing and coming together and, um, into an in-person space or a place here or a place where you can actually talk to your customers, talk to, um. [00:50:39] Step away from that, like that busy day to day where like, I, I can’t even fit a 15 minute break in to grab lunch. You know, days like how much, supposed to find 15 minutes to just have a, a casual conversation and these types of events, which I’m sure Vince is cheering back there that we’re talking about this right now. [00:50:57] But the, uh, but these type of events, they let you decompress from that day and they let you kind of just have these really important conversations that, you know, bring us back to just being humans To me. [00:51:10] Erin Figer: And being human and co-selling with each other. And on that note, we’re 44 seconds over. Yeah, we’ll give it back to Vince, [00:51:18] Reis Barrie: but we were plugging Vince’s events, so I think we’re okay. [00:51:21] Vince Menzione: We One more question. We have one more question from, sorry. Oh yeah. [00:51:23] Reis Barrie: It’s [00:51:23] Audience Member: maybe more a, a shared just as we’re talking [00:51:25] Vince Menzione: by the clip, right. [00:51:27] Audience Member: And to compliment everything that you guys have been talking about around co-sell and. Getting ready in line with Microsoft to speak to the customer and speaking. So the signals that we’re going after are on the actual conversations that are happening in the conversation. [00:51:41] So aside from all the planning, which I agree on, we’re building agents to hear what’s going on on the calls with Microsoft, on the calls with customer, and grab those actual signals. Are we answering the questions in the right way? What types of questions are coming back to us that we weren’t able to answer. [00:51:58] Maybe we forgot some information that we planned on and thought about can we signal and provide that feedback to the user, the seller, or whatnot on the call. And so as we’re doing this, ’cause we’re in the communication space, so we have some self-interest here ’cause that’s sort of the future of our business. [00:52:12] But it’s a really interesting opportunity for us to grab these signals to improve how we’re selling with our customers, how our partners are selling with our customers, with Microsoft. It’s just an interesting way with everything that’s going on full circle, we’re trying to complete that sort of sales journey with AI and, and grab those signals and keep getting better all the time. [00:52:32] Erin Figer: Yeah, I love that. And I think it’s like the ongoing balance of people, process and technology and how do you continue to keep the human in the loop? It, as we continue to introduce and evolve AI and use of data in our companies is like continuing to be mindful about the human in the loop. Um, part of that journey. [00:52:54] So thank you all. [00:52:55] Vince Menzione: Very cool. Great conversation. [00:52:56] Erin Figer: Thanks for all the audience engagement. We appreciate it. [00:52:59] Vince Menzione: Co-selling the house, co-selling the house. [00:53:02] Audience Member: Thank you, Vince. [00:53:02] Vince Menzione: Thank you. And I remember that January, 2016. Yes.
In this episode of the Pure Report, we sit down with longtime colleague Robert Quimbey, Consulting Field Solution Architect, known to many as "Q." Q shares with us how his role has evolved from a back-end problem solver focusing on Microsoft integrations to a customer-facing strategist dedicated to understanding the entire solution set for customers, not just fixing siloed problems. Drawing on his deep history with Microsoft technologies, including his time on the Exchange team, Q discusses Everpure's strategic moves to simplify the modern data center. Our conversation dives into two major capability developments: ActiveCluster for File and Azure Local. ActiveCluster for File is designed to provide high availability for file services, inheriting the core benefits of the original Everpure ActiveCluster— with ease of setup and no extra licensing costs—while solving hard problems in the file space. Q explains how ActiveCluster for File implements file storage at a cousin layer to block storage, avoiding the performance and scalability issues common in competing solutions. The new capability includes continuous availability to ensure persistent sessions for VMs on SMB shares, even during non-disruptive upgrades, and is launching right as the NAS market is projected to nearly double, driven largely by AI-related unstructured data growth. Next, we explore Azure Local, formerly Azure Stack HCI, a project Q has championed for years. This initiative is key to customers looking to modernize their virtualization strategy. The new integration, which is near GA, allows customers to connect virtual machines and containers directly to FlashArray via Fibre Channel (FC), avoiding the complexities of HCI storage. Ultimately, the focus remains on the power of the core Purity foundation to deliver agility, predictable costs (like Evergreen//One), and superior performance for all hybrid-cloud workloads. To learn more, visit: https://blog.purestorage.com/products/microsoft-azure-local-and-flash-array/ and https://blog.purestorage.com/products/introducing-activecluster-for-file/ Check out the new Everpure digital customer community to join the conversation with peers and Pure experts: https://purecommunity.purestorage.com/ 00:00 Intro and Q's Career Journey 07:17 Key Development Projects 09:59 Stat of the Episode on NAS Storage 12:51 ActiveCluster for File Discussion 27:45 Protocols and Arrays Supported 34:19 Intro to Azure Local 53:04 Hot Takes Segment
Contact Us Jeremy Jackson Benjamin Stephenson Layci Harrison Mark Knoblauch Ashlyne Elliott Leslie Bennett Sponsor List Frio Hydration – Superior Hydration products. Xothrm – Best heating pad available – Use “SMB” or email info@xothrm.com and mention the Sports Medicine Broadcast. Donate and get some swag (like Patreon but for the school) HOIST – No matter your reason for dehydration, DRINK HOIST MedBridge Education – Use “TheSMB” to save some money, be entered in a drawing for a second year free, and support the podcast. Marc Pro – Use “THESMB” to recover better. Athletic Dry Needling – Save up to $100 when registering through our link.
The nicest sticker-sealed SMB, the earliest SMB prototype, and the grand prize Nintendo World Championships all recently sold or are for sale right now! Also there's a new Neo Geo thing we have to talk about to rage bait.
Jeff Flannery is a great example of how franchising complements ETA, having rolled up 17 units since starting in 2019.Register for the webinars: Advanced Deal Mechanics: NWC, Net Debt & Purchase Price Adjustments - TOMORROW!! - https://bit.ly/4u9KyD6Add-Ons and Carve-Outs: How to Get Banks on Board - Thu, Apr 30 - https://bit.ly/3OpzRgxTopics in Jeff's interview:Difference between a practice and a business18 years of running a procurement recruiting firmAcquiring a failing Hand and Stone locationImproving the franchisee playbookAsk franchisees for the actual profit marginsMastering the business from the bottom upWorking 100-hour weeks for yearsImplementing enrollment feesRunning spas in California through CovidBuilding an inbound and outbound offshore call centerReferences and how to contact Jeff:LinkedInjflannery@purpleeaglespas.comHand & StoneDownload the New CEO's Guide to Human Resources from Aspen HR:From this page or contact jenny@aspenhr.comWork with an SBA loan team focused exclusively on helping entrepreneurs buy businesses:Pioneer Capital AdvisoryGet a complimentary IT audit for acquisition diligence or post-close transition.Visit inzotechnologies.com/eta.Connect with Acquiring Minds:See past + future interviews on the YouTube channelConnect with host Will Smith on LinkedInFollow Will on TwitterEdited by Anton Rohozov and produced by Pam Cameron
SummaryIn this episode of the Startup Junkies podcast sponsored by Bank of America, CeCe Marie, dancer, choreographer, and founder of The Vibe, joins Daniel Koonce and Ty Steele to share her inspiring journey of resilience, culture, and community through dance. Raised in a culturally diverse family, CeCe was immersed in Afro-Caribbean dance from a young age, fueling her love for culture and movement. Life's challenges, including her father's incarceration and solo parenthood, only deepened her connection to the black and brown communities and hip hop, which CeCe describes as lifesaving. Her experiences ultimately led her to launch The Vibe: a space for adults to rediscover joy and unity through dance, regardless of experience.Listeners are treated to honest reflections on the intimidating leap adults face in returning to dance, with CeCe emphasizing the importance of creating safe, hype-filled environments where “you feel seen, welcomed, and refreshed.” She also highlights The Vibe's upcoming Block Party, a dazzling celebration of hip hop's five elements—dance, DJing, emceeing, graffiti, and fashion.Whether you're a longtime dancer or curious first-timer, this episode reminds us all that artistry, joy, and unity are always within reach!Show Notes(00:00) Introduction(05:30) Starting The Vibe Dance Classes(06:46) Finding Inspiration Through Faith(11:30) Overcoming the Fear of Being a Beginner(13:41) Celebrating Hip Hop Culture(19:25) The Challenges of Limited Teacher Training(25:40) Closing ThoughtsLinksDaniel KoonceTy SteeleStartup JunkieStartup Junkie YouTubeCeCe MarieThe VibeSponsored by Bank of America
In this episode, Lex chats with Immad Akhund, CEO and founder of Mercury, a leading neobank for businesses. Immad shares his entrepreneurial journey, explaining how frustrating banking experiences inspired Mercury's creation. They discuss Banking as a Service, open banking, embedded finance, and core banking systems. Immad details Mercury's product philosophy, team structure, and migration away from Synapse before its collapse. He also outlines Mercury's impressive growth, with 300,000 customers, $650M in annual revenue, and three years of profitability. The conversation concludes with Mercury's future plans, including lending expansion, a bank charter application, and hopes for smarter AI-driven regulatory compliance. NOTABLE DISCUSSION POINTS: Banking-as-a-Service Has Been Completely Restructured - and the Original Model Is Dead: The fintech BaaS layer that enabled the 2019–2021 neobank boom - middleware providers like Synapse, Unit, and Bond sitting between fintechs and partner banks - has effectively collapsed. The replacement model is banks themselves exposing modern APIs directly, with Column Bank and Lead Bank emerging as the new infrastructure layer. Mercury navigated this shift early, moving entirely off Synapse months before its April 2024 failure, but the broader lesson is that the hundred-program BaaS model broke under the weight of compliance and reconciliation complexity. Mercury's 40% Startup Market Share Is Just the Entry Point to a $2 Trillion Opportunity: Mercury captures over 35% of early-stage US startups, but broader SMB banking represents 30% of all banking revenue - a $2 trillion market. The company is now expanding into personal banking (launched December 2025), lending (bank charter application filed), and subscription software. Akhund frames Mercury not as a bank but as a financial operating system - the “Google suite of banking” - where deposits are the entry point to invoicing, bill pay, spend management, and eventually underwriting. Stablecoins Don't Magically Solve the Ledger Problem: Akhund pushes back on the narrative that stablecoins eliminate reconciliation risk. In practice, most stablecoin providers pool customer funds into shared wallets and run their own abstraction layers and internal ledgers - recreating the same reconciliation challenges that exist in traditional banking. The benefit only holds in the narrow case where users truly own their own keys and wallets, which is rarely how scaled fintech products operate. TOPICS Mercury, Synapse, Chase, Evolve Bank, Column Bank, Stripe, Plaid, Coinbase, neobank, neobanking, banking-as-a-service, BAAS, fintech, fintech regulation, reconciliation, product development, stablecoins, API, blockchain, VCs, embedded finance ABOUT THE FINTECH BLUEPRINT
Nicolás Lulli bought a document storage business in Peru. 6 years later, it is a $25m leader in the Andean region.Register for the webinar: Advanced Deal Mechanics: NWC, Net Debt & Purchase Price Adjustments - Tue, Apr 28 - https://bit.ly/490Ms0qTopics in Nicolás's interview:First employee at Relay Investments search fundLaunched Peru's first search fund, Colca CapitalCovid lockdowns erased profits almost overnightRebuilding the business into a tight submarineFrom $0 EBITDA to $5m in one yearShifted focus toward acquisitions for faster growthRecords storage is a real estate businessInvests in other searchers to pay it forwardThe cradle-to-grave strategy in records managementBuilding a searcher community in PeruReferences and how to contact Nicolás:LinkedInColca CapitalGet a complimentary IT audit for acquisition diligence or post-close transition. Visit inzotechnologies.com/eta. The ecosystem for serious acquisition entrepreneurs—education, capital, community, and post-close support to buy and grow a business:The Acquisition LabWork with an SBA loan team focused exclusively on helping entrepreneurs buy businesses:Pioneer Capital AdvisoryConnect with Acquiring Minds:See past + future interviews on the YouTube channelConnect with host Will Smith on LinkedInFollow Will on TwitterEdited by Anton Rohozov and produced by Pam Cameron
Mastering the shift from MSP to MIP. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/Check Out UPX: https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this insightful episode, Oguo Atuanya, CVP of Vendor Experience at Pax8, joins us to discuss the pivotal evolution in the IT channel: the transition from Managed Service Providers (MSPs) to Managed Intelligence Providers (MIPs). We explore how the marketplace is moving beyond traditional infrastructure support toward a future defined by AI-driven orchestration, business consultancy, and scalable agent-tech organizations. Oguo details how Pax8 is leading this transformation by curating solutions that allow partners to move from transactional service models to life-cycle management that prioritizes measurable ROI for the Small and Medium Business (SMB) market. Key Takeaways Pax8 is redefining the role of the distributor by acting as an AI commerce platform for the SMB market. The shift from Managed Service Provider (MSP) to Managed Intelligence Provider (MIP) is critical for scaling in the modern tech era. Successful MSPs must evolve into business consultants who integrate AI-driven workflows rather than just selling infrastructure. Security and automation are foundational elements that every modern MIP must prioritize to ensure scalability for customers. The “MIP Playbook” provides the curriculum-driven enablement partners need to successfully pivot their business models. Building strong, end-to-end customer lifecycle management is the key to minimizing churn and maximizing long-term value. https://youtu.be/c8uCnMJd9bg If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags Pax8, Managed Intelligence Providers, MIP, AI commerce platform, SMB technology, MSP evolution, AI-driven workflows, agent-first strategy, digital transformation, channel partner strategy, cloud solutions, customer lifecycle management, IT channel innovation, scalable automation, business consultancy, technology architecture, agent store, managed service providers. Transcript Oguo Atuanya Audio Episode [00:00:00] Oguo Atuanya: I, I mean, the ultimate goal is to get that MIP channel as intelligent or even more intelligent and agile than any enterprise IT department. [00:00:13] Vince Menzione: We just finished Ultimate Partners Winter Retreat here in beautiful Boca to a sold out crowd. Today I’m joined by Dexter Hardy, the founder of Integral for a compelling discussion, a guo. Welcome back, [00:00:29] Oguo Atuanya: Vince [00:00:29] Vince Menzione: to the welcome back to the podcast, my friend. So good to see you. [00:00:33] Oguo Atuanya: Good to see you, my friend. It’s been about, what, two years? [00:00:35] Vince Menzione: It has been two years, almost two years. Almost two years ago now. And uh, man, this [00:00:40] Oguo Atuanya: thing is just picking up steam. [00:00:41] Vince Menzione: It is. We’re having a blast. We were having so much fun. It was [00:00:44] Oguo Atuanya: awesome. [00:00:44] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:00:44] Oguo Atuanya: Really awesome. [00:00:45] Vince Menzione: And you were for context, for people watching and, and listening. Uh, we were here in Boca yesterday for the Ultimate Partner Executive Retreat. [00:00:52] Yep. It was this awesome event and great to have you involved in it. Uh, pat, thank you so much. So, uh, last time you were here [00:01:00] Oguo Atuanya: Yes. [00:01:01] Vince Menzione: Uh, you were representing Microsoft where you spent 22 years. [00:01:05] Oguo Atuanya: 22 [00:01:06] Vince Menzione: years. [00:01:06] Oguo Atuanya: Two years, right. Outta outta Junior Heart. [00:01:07] Vince Menzione: Amazing. And, uh, tell us, tell us about your journey so far. Uh, almost two years, a year and a half at Pax. [00:01:14] Eight. About a [00:01:15] Oguo Atuanya: year and a half. [00:01:15] Vince Menzione: Yeah, [00:01:16] Oguo Atuanya: a year and a half. [00:01:17] Vince Menzione: And tell, tell for our viewers and listeners, uh, your role at Pax eight. [00:01:21] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:01:22] Vince Menzione: Which is a preeminent company in this space. We used to use the term disty. I’ll let you describe them. Uh, officially [00:01:29] Oguo Atuanya: No, [00:01:30] Vince Menzione: because they don’t, you don’t use that term. [00:01:31] Oguo Atuanya: We’re not, we’re not a distributor. [00:01:33] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:01:33] Oguo Atuanya: Scott Cha would kill me. [00:01:35] Vince Menzione: That’s right. No, I know, I know. I remember the, uh, [00:01:38] Oguo Atuanya: the New [00:01:38] Vince Menzione: York, was it the New York Times article? Yes. Yes. [00:01:41] Oguo Atuanya: Was kind of a, [00:01:42] Vince Menzione: that was a launching point coming out. Yeah, yeah. [00:01:44] Oguo Atuanya: No, we, we, we see ourselves as, um, um, the pre, uh, permanent marketplace. For SMB. [00:01:52] Vince Menzione: Nice. [00:01:53] Oguo Atuanya: Right. So you think about the SaaS and the cloud. [00:01:55] Yeah. You know, solutions that you need. In SMB, we work with vendors to bring it, um, you know, to the SMB market through, uh, MSPs. And we also, uh, see ourselves as the premier [00:02:08] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:02:08] Oguo Atuanya: Um, AI commerce platform for SMB. [00:02:13] Vince Menzione: Very interesting. [00:02:14] Oguo Atuanya: Right. And as we go through the discussion, uh, this afternoon, you’ll see why. [00:02:20] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:02:21] Oguo Atuanya: That differentiation is [00:02:23] Vince Menzione: key. I, I love, I love to dive in. I love to dive in. I will say this, I, I think you’ve gotten a lot of people very interested in the community. I mean, certainly your events are becoming bigger and bigger. You’re beyond conference. [00:02:36] Oguo Atuanya: Next one’s coming up in Salt Lake City [00:02:38] in [00:02:38] Vince Menzione: June. [00:02:38] I plan on being there, salt Lake City in June. [00:02:41] Oguo Atuanya: I must have you there. [00:02:42] Vince Menzione: I will be there and you will, and you will be at our event in May. [00:02:45] Oguo Atuanya: Absolutely. [00:02:46] Vince Menzione: Talking about beyond, but also talking about this community. Uh, I’ve also woken up over the last year or so as well and learned a lot about this SMB community and ms, what we call MSBs. [00:02:58] You’ve re you’ve re-categorized them, uh, but this community is palpable. The opportunity is huge. [00:03:04] Oguo Atuanya: It’s huge. [00:03:05] Vince Menzione: And, um, I would say that, uh, yeah, we can talk, we’ll talk, we’ll just talk through it. ’cause it is huge. Yeah. There’s a lot of things that need to be done. [00:03:12] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:03:13] Vince Menzione: And I think, I think PAX eight is, uh, at the forefront in driving a lot of this. [00:03:17] The hyperscalers, like Microsoft are, are paying attention now more in a big, in a bigger way than before [00:03:23] Oguo Atuanya: being great partners. [00:03:24] Vince Menzione: Been great, great partners. Yeah. We’ll talk about your role with Microsoft in that regard. [00:03:28] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:03:28] Vince Menzione: But talk, let’s talk about this evolution too. Let’s, uh, so for those who are listening, who are used to maybe us talking about a SaaS software company Yep. [00:03:36] Or an ISV or an SDC, uh, we’re talking about MSPs, managed service providers, which is the common term that people use. These are, these have been traditionally the companies, the smaller companies, they used to call em mom and pop shops back. The old VARs that became managed service, the past [00:03:53] Oguo Atuanya: provider in, in the past, they’re getting bigger. [00:03:54] Vince Menzione: And then Yes. One of the big [00:03:55] Oguo Atuanya: ones, y say [00:03:56] Vince Menzione: Nexus Tech. We had Yes. [00:03:57] Oguo Atuanya: Partners of ours. [00:03:58] Vince Menzione: Nexus Techs, new Charter. [00:04:01] Oguo Atuanya: Charter, Michelle [00:04:02] Vince Menzione: Evergreen, I could Ira Lyra. Yeah. They’re, they’re becoming bigger and bigger. Private equity is getting involved. What’s important, what’s important to note too is that the customer is driving this because customers are requiring more and it’s no longer about, and my my point of view is it’s no longer about loading up software and just letting it go. [00:04:22] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:04:23] Vince Menzione: You need to be hands-on all the time. [00:04:24] Oguo Atuanya: Abs. Absolutely. And, and [00:04:26] Vince Menzione: yeah, [00:04:26] Oguo Atuanya: kind of skating towards that park of, um. MIP? [00:04:31] Vince Menzione: Yes. Let’s talk about MIP [00:04:33] Oguo Atuanya: managed intelligence providers. [00:04:35] Vince Menzione: So last year, year Beyond conference, I believe you launched this like new in I, we’ll call the new nomenclature or the new name, or this new thing. [00:04:46] And evolved. And evolved, yeah. [00:04:48] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:04:49] Vince Menzione: So talk about the managed intelligence provider for us. [00:04:52] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. Wow. When it happened In Beyond Or at? Beyond, I should say. Um. We thought it’d catch on because it’s apt. I mean, it’s, it’s sort of indicative of what’s happening now and what will happen over the next 24 months, but, uh, the sort of migration towards this and the marketplace has been immense. [00:05:17] I mean, you, and you, you know, hit on what the difference is. Yes. Earlier on, um, today. What’s driving this shift is that most MSPs have been really good at being tools and technology infrastructure providers. [00:05:36] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:05:36] Oguo Atuanya: Right. [00:05:37] Vince Menzione: They would hook up your network and your printer. In the old days, they fix your, fix your computers. [00:05:42] Yes. Or replace re-image, all those things. Right? Yes. That was the old days. And, [00:05:46] Oguo Atuanya: and, and also provide some very manual services delivery, which will now play. In this new era that we are actually, I shouldn’t say going into, it’s taking all, [00:06:00] Vince Menzione: we’re, we’re there, [00:06:00] Oguo Atuanya: we’re there right now. So, um, you know, they, they, I guess the transformation from MSP to MIP others partners that would actually become managed intelligence providers. [00:06:14] That means really, you know, integrating intelligence into workflow that matters for the SMBs. Right. So you [00:06:23] Vince Menzione: so double click on that for, [00:06:25] Oguo Atuanya: for [00:06:25] Vince Menzione: our [00:06:26] Oguo Atuanya: viewers. Yeah. So all really means is that you’re moving from being that, you know [00:06:29] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:06:30] Oguo Atuanya: Technology, infrastructure, tools, provider to, you know, becoming an, an orchestrator and a and a and a business consultant. [00:06:38] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:06:38] Oguo Atuanya: Right. For you. SMB. Right. So important. ’cause you have to now get into, uh, very secure, streamlined automated AI driven workflows to help them. [00:06:52] Vince Menzione: All driven in the cloud. Everything’s in the cloud now, as opposed to the old days. Right. On premise. [00:06:58] Oguo Atuanya: All gone. None. That’s happening. It’s all gone. All gone. Yeah. [00:07:00] So you, you’ve got this automated platform right now. You should as, um, an MIP, um, we actually gonna be in a position to design, um, agent tech organizations for your, uh, SMBs who wanna scale. ’cause as we talked about yesterday, yeah. SMBs have opportunities they wanna grow, but not have the wherewithal to go hire a hundred people. [00:07:27] Instead of doing that, you go hire a hundred agents. Yeah, but you’re gonna need that MIP to architect, the organization, launch it for you, manage it, get you, you know, automated, you know, workflows that you’d leverage to run your company, and then they have to manage and optimize the technology. Um, as necessary. [00:07:49] So, so, huge shift. [00:07:50] Vince Menzione: Huge shift. [00:07:51] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:07:52] Vince Menzione: And it was interesting for me being at the, where you talked about the write of Boom conference that you, were you, your organization was there? Yeah, I was there as well and I was in the room with some of the Microsoft folks and we had some of those larger partners we talked about [00:08:07] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:08:08] Vince Menzione: That were in the room as well. And just, uh, different perspectives too. Like I hadn’t heard it firsthand. It was interesting for Microsoft too, to get that feedback from. From some of them as well. Um, I think, I think the ones that are progressive are already on board with you. I’ve, I’ve already talked to some of those organizations, like, oh, we’re a hundred percent Pax eight, that’s it. [00:08:29] But then some of the others I think are still, there are still people out there that are stuck in the past. Would you agree? Like this community is in the, is in a transition right now to this new model? [00:08:38] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:08:39] Vince Menzione: Tell [00:08:39] Oguo Atuanya: us [00:08:39] Vince Menzione: about that. [00:08:40] Oguo Atuanya: There are, I mean, listen, I, I don’t, you know, wanna put a number. You know what we’re seeing. [00:08:48] But I’d say that about eventually, let’s say we’re gonna have about 30% of folks that really get it and move. [00:08:56] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:08:56] Oguo Atuanya: Right. The others we’re gonna have to, [00:08:59] Vince Menzione: there’ll be the laggards that’ll [00:09:00] Oguo Atuanya: take longer and let me just, you know, sort of rephrase that state. Most of them understand, you know, what the opportunity is with this whole Yeah. [00:09:14] Vince Menzione: You [00:09:15] Oguo Atuanya: know. They’re still struggling with being able to, you know, articulate this story, um, from a value prop perspective, right? You know, go in, talk to the SMBs, help the SMBs understand how, you know, they can be more productive, more efficient, and um, ultimately more profitable and scale, um, with an agent, you know, framework. [00:09:44] They still struggle. Yeah. And, and that’s kind of where we come in, where we helping these SMB or sorry, MSPs and to be ips. [00:09:54] Vince Menzione: So tell us, understand that. Tell us what you’re doing. I believe you, you stood up like academies and things like that, right? You’re doing some outreach, some enablement for the community? [00:10:02] Is that what it is? [00:10:03] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah, we we’re heavy, we’re heavy in, um, enablement. Um, because, you know, everyone realizes that. To be successful with this whole campaign. It’s not just about putting agents up in an agent store, real, SMB, you know, native, um, vertical aware agents that actually, you know, when you deploy it in an SMB business, right, they drive value right away, [00:10:37] Vince Menzione: right? [00:10:38] Oguo Atuanya: Right. So, but we also realize that it’s not just about, you know, landing the agents in the marketplace, but enablement is a huge factor. That’s why when you go back to things, you know, like academy, uh, the MIP playbook, uh, some of the, uh, inculcation integrations we we’re doing with, um, partners, really critical to have that enablement layer. [00:11:04] Vince Menzione: Interesting. [00:11:04] Oguo Atuanya: Along with providing the agents and the, in the agents store. [00:11:07] Vince Menzione: Who’s developing these agents in the agent store? Are they providers for the MSP community? Are they organizations like Take, take us through that model. [00:11:17] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. So they, they, they, because [00:11:18] Vince Menzione: you, you manage all the vendors. [00:11:20] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah, I do. Right? [00:11:21] Vince Menzione: I do. So tell us more about that. [00:11:22] Oguo Atuanya: I do. So it’s, it’s multifold, right? Um, one fold is you have prebuilt solutions that you know vendors. [00:11:30] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:11:30] Oguo Atuanya: Built for, you know, SMBs and they’re directed towards SMBs. Then you also have a second category, uh, sorry, category of solutions that are more tools that MSBs use. [00:11:42] Right? But there’s also a third, um, prompt to this where we are orchestrating an integration of, um, um, IP between [00:11:54] Vince Menzione: interesting the [00:11:55] Oguo Atuanya: vendor department, uh, into providing, you know, solutions. That we can land in the, in the agent store. [00:12:03] Vince Menzione: That’s fascinating. So, yeah. So you have, so you have a standalone product or a standalone solution or agent. [00:12:10] You have the orchestration and then you have the customer tools and the tool. And the tools. [00:12:14] Oguo Atuanya: Yes. [00:12:15] Vince Menzione: Yes. That’s fascinating. [00:12:17] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. It’s um, it’s sort of a three flying approach that, um, the market needs, right? Yeah. And that, that’s key. By the way, Vince, when you know, um. You’re developing these agents and these solutions. [00:12:30] Yeah. Because they’re not, they’re not just tools anymore, right. Essentially it could be somebody’s, uh, FTE. [00:12:38] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:12:38] Oguo Atuanya: Right. So they have to address a specific outcome. They have to be, you know, uh, valuable. You have to show the ROI and for these SMBs. Don’t have a lot of wiggle room. [00:12:53] Vince Menzione: So you, that they’re smaller companies, right? [00:12:55] Yeah. So anything you do is gonna be super impactful. Yeah. It’s not something they can absorb necessarily, or, you know, lose time and money. [00:13:03] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:13:03] Vince Menzione: Uh, you’ve gotta be very sensitive to that in this, in this market, this size market. And even the MSPs are, even though there are some that are much larger, there’s still a lot of smaller MSPs out there. [00:13:14] Oguo Atuanya: And, and coming to the MIP playbook, um, what partners don’t need anymore. Um, it’s hype. [00:13:23] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:13:24] Oguo Atuanya: They need an almost curriculum driven approach, right. To landing this initiative and infrastructure and also managing it long term. Yeah. So that’s what the MIP playbook does. [00:13:39] Vince Menzione: So you were an executive at Microsoft. [00:13:41] You managed the channel partner. I, I would call the resellers and the disti. In fact, for the America’s business, I believe was your role. [00:13:49] Oguo Atuanya: I I did manage the large resellers. At [00:13:51] Vince Menzione: large resellers. So at one point, and you also had the Disti at one time? [00:13:54] Oguo Atuanya: At one point I had the Disti, the telco, the domain providers. [00:13:58] Vince Menzione: Yes. The large resellers. I remember when we first met, yes. I think that was when, [00:14:00] Oguo Atuanya: yes. [00:14:00] Vince Menzione: Yes. And so when you came, PAX eight is a very strong Microsoft partner. You were, again, I mentioned you were the launch partner or one of the launch partners for the marketplace. [00:14:09] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:14:09] Vince Menzione: But talk about the role and the relationship with Microsoft and the value that PAX eight provides for this market, uh, kind of layering between, uh, the Microsoft components and, and the SMB market. [00:14:24] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. Does that [00:14:24] Vince Menzione: make sense? [00:14:25] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. So, so Microsoft has always been. Um, keen on the SMB segment, um, you know, Jose Gomez and Company in the Americas, and folks like, um, Alison West Hughes from a core perspective that, yeah, they’re very serious about this SMB segment. And, um, I’d say the key difference with Microsoft is Microsoft realized early. [00:14:56] Probably based on the fact that Microsoft’s always been a very strong channel friendly, [00:15:01] Vince Menzione: yes. [00:15:01] Oguo Atuanya: Oriented company. I realized earlier that you really can’t scale cost efficiently by having a direct SMB business, right? Right. You have to go through the channel. [00:15:14] Vince Menzione: They’re what, 160,000 MSPs or ips? [00:15:19] Oguo Atuanya: Um, for us at pax, [00:15:21] Vince Menzione: I think for the world. [00:15:22] Oguo Atuanya: Uh, yes. [00:15:22] Vince Menzione: Somewhere the world around there. The world, yeah. You would have to reach all those companies individually, which Yeah, you’d [00:15:27] Oguo Atuanya: have to, well, I mean, even then the, there’s the Ians of SMBs [00:15:31] Vince Menzione: Yes. In worldwide. Yes. That’s right. Right. At at the customer level. The pyramid is huge. You can’t, [00:15:35] Oguo Atuanya: you can’t really scale. [00:15:36] No, you can’t. You can only do that through the channel. [00:15:38] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:15:39] Oguo Atuanya: And, um, I think, I think the relationship between Microsoft and PAX has just. Strengthened over time because Microsoft sees, if we go back to that definition of a, you know, distributor versus a marketplace and a platform provider stuff. So we’re seeing the difference. [00:15:56] Yes. And the value add and, you know, the services led approach that packs it, you know, brings to, um, um, driving the SMB business. Yes. Um, you know, just that we have, we think PAX eight, we have a very strong relationship. And a very strong MSP ecosystem, which is critical when you sort of, you know, uh, look at that difference between just a regular reseller and an MSP. [00:16:26] Vince Menzione: Absolutely. [00:16:26] Oguo Atuanya: Right. Um, you just can’t, what we talked about earlier, just transact a solution and then walk away. It’s, it’s, uh, it’s, um, it, it’s, it’s really a sustainable end-to-end, you know, customer life cycle management approach. When you’re dealing with them. [00:16:44] Vince Menzione: I think it’s important here too, and, and again for the maturity model of our listeners and viewers, it might be at different levels of understanding about the, about the model. [00:16:53] But if you think about the model and the evolution, right, being the, from the old model of being, uh, hardware centric and maybe software centric, uh, the old days of what was a disti, which are not at disti anymore, but, um, the distis were there to provide credit. Availability of product. [00:17:12] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:17:12] Vince Menzione: And And delivery, basically. [00:17:14] Right? Yeah. That was it. [00:17:15] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:17:16] Vince Menzione: And that’s how that they were intermediaries on some of that. [00:17:19] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:17:20] Vince Menzione: But PAX eight evolved at a later time. [00:17:22] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:17:23] Vince Menzione: More modern time, I would say in the cloud. Yeah. [00:17:25] Oguo Atuanya: PAX eight. So one in the cloud, if you will. [00:17:28] Vince Menzione: And I think that’s maybe a differentiation and this new model that it also feels to like this MSP community has been coming along. [00:17:36] And I, I, I believe a lot of thought leadership from the PAX eight side. I’m speak, I’m speaking for you here, but in terms of some bold moves that the organization is doing. [00:17:46] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. Listen. Um, as you know, I dealt or engaged with PAX eight for a while before joining PAX eight. [00:17:54] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:17:55] Oguo Atuanya: I’d engaged with p fact fact pxi, funnily enough was the first meeting I had, um, when I came back from the uk. [00:18:02] Vince Menzione: Is that [00:18:02] Oguo Atuanya: right? Yeah. During my stint running, um. Um, devices, uh, sales organization for Microsoft. The first meeting I had coming back into the Americas was so P Aid and Nick Hedy and, uh, Ryan Walsh and, oh, that’s so funny. Joke about it. By the way, Ryan Walsh all has a prep, uh, notes study, you know, he got ready for the media. [00:18:26] Vince Menzione: Oh, that is hilarious. I met Ryan. Uh, we were on stage together at a channel partners a couple years ago. [00:18:32] Can’t [00:18:32] Oguo Atuanya: miss his energy. [00:18:33] Vince Menzione: He can’t [00:18:33] Oguo Atuanya: miss his energy. [00:18:34] Vince Menzione: Such great energy. [00:18:35] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. But, but listen, I think if I could just sum it in a, you know, in a, um, a framework or a box. The key difference between PAC sales is we look at engaging with MSPs in SMB, um, from a customer lifecycle management. [00:18:57] So we start from, Hey, how do we help you with customer acquisition? When you do acquire the customers and you make that first licensing transaction, it doesn’t go away. That’s when we actually start, you know, thinking about how do we help, um, you ensure that your SMBs realize, um, value from what you sold them. [00:19:18] You know, if you need to expand, but, um, beyond one, you know, skew in the stack, that’s what you do because you understand the needs of USMB that helps drive consumption, you know? Nurture that through all, we start, you know, looking at, is it time for re sorry, renewal. There’s a team minus approach to renewal. [00:19:37] ’cause we also keep our eyes on churn. You can, you know, gain as much business as you can, but if you churn, it does nobody any good. Yeah. So we look at things end to end from our position to churn. And that really is embedded in the platform that sits underneath the marketplace. [00:19:53] Vince Menzione: And you act as the, well see, we’re gonna use technical terms here. [00:19:57] CSP. You’re the first layer of CSP and then they, they also, in many cases, sometimes they’re not, but in many cases they are the CSP to the customer. They’re providing the, the licenses to the customer. [00:20:10] Oguo Atuanya: Well, we, so we, we are the first tier of that, you know, two tier [00:20:14] Vince Menzione: Exactly. [00:20:15] Oguo Atuanya: Model. So we, we, [00:20:16] Vince Menzione: you’re tier one [00:20:17] Oguo Atuanya: Microsoft. [00:20:18] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:20:19] Oguo Atuanya: Right. We, you know, as an existing might press on an example, it could be one of our other vendors, like, you know, um, any of the 150 vendors we have. We engage with them, we enable the um, MSP, who’s the resell, who’s really in the traditional sense, the reseller layer, much more valuable in terms of what they do. [00:20:41] Vince Menzione: That’s right. [00:20:41] Oguo Atuanya: And then. The MSP engages with, uh, the end customer. So that’s kind of what the flow is. [00:20:47] Vince Menzione: Yep. Yeah. And that’s one component of what they do for the customer. The transaction is a one one and done sort of. [00:20:53] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:20:53] Vince Menzione: But then it’s all the managed services and layering Oh, provide on top of it. And then all the other solutions say 150 platforms. [00:21:00] Oguo Atuanya: Uh, 150 vendors. [00:21:01] Vince Menzione: Vendors, yeah. So hundreds of platforms that are available to the customer for [00:21:07] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:21:07] Vince Menzione: Through taxane. [00:21:08] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. But, but lemme just emphasize that especially. We are going actually where we are. Right. Um, again, it starts, it starts way to the left of the continuum than just driving the transaction. [00:21:23] Vince Menzione: So take us through the continuum then. [00:21:25] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah, that’s what I said earlier, the continuum is, you know, helping this, helping with [00:21:28] Vince Menzione: acquisition, customer acquisition, [00:21:30] Oguo Atuanya: even, you know, prior to that it’s, it’s helped. We’re getting to a point now where we’re helping these MSPs and they should all be able to do that during the MIP era. [00:21:38] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:21:39] Oguo Atuanya: Understand the market they’re playing it. Yeah. Understand, you know, the market, their SMBs are in, understand their verticals or their scenarios so that you can actually build, you know, this precision, outcome driven, you know, solutions. [00:21:52] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:21:52] Oguo Atuanya: Right. That, that’s the beginning and then you sell and acquire. [00:21:58] Right. And then once you acquire that business, uh, it’s always on, you know, situation. You’re helping realize value. ’cause if you don’t. You’re not expanding beyond the stock. Yes. And um, you’re not driving consumption. And if you don’t drive consumption, [00:22:14] Vince Menzione: you’re not making any money. You’re really not making, [00:22:16] Oguo Atuanya: it’s not churn. [00:22:16] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:22:17] Oguo Atuanya: Right. And then they have to keep an eye on, when renewals come about, there has to be a healthy T minus period. Right. Um, so ensure that you renew during renewals. Um, that’s actually when we then look at, Hey, what’s your stack look like? Right. Especially with the agent era, right? Do you have everything you need? [00:22:37] Do you have the processes? Is there governance? Is there enough security for your, um, SMB, right? So that’s kind of the tune up time before we renew, and then we help you renew and then retain so that it’s, it’s a, it’s a sort of lifecycle approach, not just transactional. [00:22:55] Vince Menzione: Oh, I, I hear. Talk and, you know, I talk to different people in the industry about the SMBs, the MSPs in the SM B market, uh, that some of these organizations are very much, they’re very technical. [00:23:07] Yeah. Like they’re technical folks. Sometimes they’re not sales folks or they’re not consulting type folks. Yes. So how do you help them overcome some of those challenges or those gaps? I mean, I know some of it’s through the academy. [00:23:19] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:23:19] Vince Menzione: Do you help them also with selecting like, how do they think about their organizational structure to have the right people in the right seats and those types of [00:23:26] Oguo Atuanya: things and that, that’s, that’s, [00:23:27] Vince Menzione: yeah. [00:23:27] Oguo Atuanya: All what the MIP playbook, that’s, and the process is all about Nice. It’s, it’s, Hey, how do we expand your horizon, you know, beyond just providing the technical aspect things, how do you understand the business? How do you go about conversations to discover, right, your, uh, SMB, right? And once you discover, how do you go about architecting, you know, a value framework that includes, you know, maybe looking at the organization and suggesting agents and then, you know, when you land them, right? [00:23:59] What’s the, um, optimization, you know, process beyond just landing them. So it’s, it’s helping them. [00:24:08] Vince Menzione: Make transit, become business [00:24:09] Oguo Atuanya: consultants. [00:24:09] Vince Menzione: Right, exactly. Which is what they need to do. [00:24:11] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. The, in this era, you really need to understand what your SMB is doing because, you know, think about it for the longest, this sort sub, you know, consultative approaches were only sort of reserved for enterprise. [00:24:26] Vince Menzione: Yeah, that’s right. [00:24:27] Oguo Atuanya: But when you look at how, you know, the solutions that we sell, I change, they’re really enterprise solutions now that are in SMB. Right. You have to sell that way. You have to engage that way. Right? So that, that’s, that’s a key differentiator between being an MSP and an MIP, bringing that intelligence into you applying, you know, an intelligent workflow to the way your SMB conduct that, sorry, conducts their business. [00:24:56] Vince Menzione: So tell, take me through, uh, what the ideal MMSP or MIP looks like to you. Like what is the. The, the top of the top and to the right. And then where do you see the challenges? Why do some organizations or, or, ’cause I’m sure there are some that struggle, whether it’s 10%, 20%. [00:25:14] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. Yeah. [00:25:15] Vince Menzione: Because it’s, it’s, it’s a continuum. [00:25:16] It’s a, it’s a cycle to get from, from point A to point B for a lot of these organizations. Right? [00:25:21] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. So [00:25:21] Vince Menzione: what do you see from the challenges they need to overcome and, yeah, so, so the, [00:25:25] Oguo Atuanya: the, the optimal MSP looks like what we just described, right? Yeah. Right. You have an organization that thinks through the process that way, set up. [00:25:33] Right. [00:25:34] Vince Menzione: And they become an ongoing consultant. They help them through the process. They understand ai. Right. This is another thing too, right? Organizations, I mean, are struggling right now with their [00:25:43] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah, absolutely. [00:25:44] Vince Menzione: Their people. [00:25:45] Oguo Atuanya: It’s gotta be the baseline. [00:25:47] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:25:47] Oguo Atuanya: You know, these days, understanding ai, understanding the agent, you know, journey. [00:25:53] Uh, what works well is, um, you know, you, um, you know, you, you. You have to be able to design, um, land a scalable, secure, uh, environment, um, [00:26:13] Vince Menzione: secure. [00:26:16] Oguo Atuanya: So, so security is key here, [00:26:20] Vince Menzione: right? I keep thinking about Claude, what’s happened just in the last several weeks. Yeah. In our industry with people putting things up on, through, through open browsers. [00:26:28] Yeah. [00:26:29] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:26:29] Vince Menzione: To Claude and to. Different tools. [00:26:31] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. Yeah. [00:26:32] Vince Menzione: And if you’re an SM B and you’re trying to lock down your environment’s, don’t want, that’s, you don’t want your data exposed. [00:26:37] Oguo Atuanya: That’s why security is [00:26:38] Vince Menzione: huge, [00:26:39] Oguo Atuanya: is key. But, you know, one of the things we recommend is start very specific. Uh, it could be a bundle that includes, you know, could be co-pilot, could be some other AI pillar. [00:26:52] Uh, and then it has to be, you know, a security layer. [00:26:57] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:26:58] Oguo Atuanya: Uh, to that. Then there has to be an enablement, you know, services layer to that as well, right? So, um, you build secure, um, you land, uh, and then skills develop key, right? And then monetization. You have to be able to hit those levels, uh, to be able to survive in this world. [00:27:22] You’re no longer just selling. Tools. [00:27:27] Vince Menzione: Yes. At margins, [00:27:30] Oguo Atuanya: flat margins. So the tool, the tool sprawl, um, is what takes a lot of margins away. [00:27:37] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:27:37] Oguo Atuanya: From the equation. [00:27:38] Vince Menzione: Right? Tell, tell us about that. ’cause I, I, I remember even back in my Microsoft days, yeah, we would go in and, and have partners that were successful that would say. [00:27:47] In fact, the ones that are most successful would basically tell the customer, you already own it. Like you have a, you have an enterprise agreement and it has all the capabilities you need to run your enterprise, and you’re buying all these other one-off solutions and trying to patch them into your, into your portfolio of your, your solution set. [00:28:04] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. Nobody, nobody, especially in SB, nobody wants any more tools. [00:28:08] Vince Menzione: No, I can [00:28:09] Oguo Atuanya: imagine. Um, you, you’ve gotta sort of assemble this thing into a platform that works. [00:28:14] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:28:15] Oguo Atuanya: Right. And it’s gotta be repeatable. If it’s not repeatable, then you’re not driving the frequency. Right. It’s gotta be scalable. Um, ’cause if it’s scalable, then you’re going into, um, that kind of sprawl where people start thinking they need to replace gaps with more tools. [00:28:32] Yeah. Nobody needs. Right. [00:28:34] Vince Menzione: And that creates more vulnerability by putting [00:28:36] Oguo Atuanya: Absolutely. [00:28:37] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:28:37] Oguo Atuanya: Absolutely. Yeah. It’s [00:28:39] Vince Menzione: fascinating. So [00:28:40] Oguo Atuanya: it’s, it’s a different, um. Sort of engagement and I, I’m refraining from saying it to different kind of sell because the connotation of sell is you transact and you’re gone. It’s a full lifecycle engagement model. [00:28:56] Yeah. [00:28:56] Vince Menzione: I think what you’re doing is you’re enabling the evolution of this market. [00:29:01] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah, [00:29:01] Vince Menzione: that’s the way I would say it. [00:29:02] Oguo Atuanya: Well, that, that’s exactly what we’re trying to do with, um, the shift from MSP to MIP is. Um, we’re driving the transformation in SMB. [00:29:12] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:29:13] Oguo Atuanya: I, I mean, the ultimate goal is to get that MIP channel as intelligent or even more intelligent and agile than any enterprise IT department. [00:29:23] Yes. ’cause they are the, [00:29:24] Vince Menzione: they are ones, the enterprise IT department [00:29:26] Oguo Atuanya: for that customer. Yeah. The, the word trusted advisor is gonna take a very, you know, it’s [00:29:31] Vince Menzione: fascinating, [00:29:31] Oguo Atuanya: more serious connotation in this space. Because the SMBs are dependent on you as the MMIP for that. [00:29:39] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Let’s talk, we, we had a session on marketplace yesterday. [00:29:42] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:29:43] Vince Menzione: Um, you have been a great driver now through, especially through this new program, the new unified marketplace. [00:29:50] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:29:50] Vince Menzione: Uh, PAX eight is stood, stood above and beyond and doubled sales, I think is what I thought I heard. Take, take us through some of the, [00:29:58] Oguo Atuanya: well, I mean, uh, uh, a marketplace. Uh, marketplace sales has grown exponentially, [00:30:04] Vince Menzione: exponentially, [00:30:04] Oguo Atuanya: right? [00:30:05] Um, um, this partnership with Microsoft is really all about for the first time, um, integrating, you know, both the, uh, Microsoft, uh, marketplace and the P State marketplace into the MSP delivery, you know, system. Right? What does that mean for the MSP? It means that for the first time, the MSP is gonna have an ability to, um, you know, uh, bundle seamlessly or package seamlessly. [00:30:36] I know from a Microsoft Yeah. Package seamlessly. Um, you know, so Microsoft, uh, solutions and third party solutions that are complimentary again, to driving the outcomes that, you know, uh, the SMB needs. It’s really all about provisioning. Um, and, um, you know, building those solutions intelligently and, and dynamically, right? [00:31:05] Where it’s very scalable, right? So that, that’s sort of what the intelligence and the, the dexterity of our marketplace, uh, does. Right? So, so it’s, it’s, it’s creating, you know, um, provisioning, building, uh, transacting. Then really managing in a very automated fashion. Right. So that’s what the MSP gets. Yes. [00:31:32] The vendor, like Microsoft and other vendors remove the guesswork from, is this actually gonna hit the mark for, uh, SMBs? ’cause we do that curation through the discovery when we, you know, integrate marketplaces. Make sure that those solutions, those agents that land in the marketplace are SMB applicable. [00:31:57] ’cause the other thing we, we, we see in the marketplace, and I’m using the general marketplace is, um, a lot of companies will tell you that they have SMB solutions or agents. Yes, in the marketplace. And then you go into the marketplace and these are really enterprise, enterprise [00:32:14] Vince Menzione: solutions. Solutions that are [00:32:15] Oguo Atuanya: being forced down into SMB. [00:32:18] Well, you can’t do that these days ’cause you have to hit that, you know, customer, um, precision when you’re driving, you know, outcome based solutions. You have to be precise. [00:32:29] Vince Menzione: What is, what is the curation process for? Um, I’m an SMB customer. I come to the MSP. And you help at your marketplace level, it sounds like you help design what the right solution is. [00:32:42] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. Yeah. [00:32:42] Vince Menzione: So what, tell, take us through that process real quick. [00:32:45] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. So, um, you know, we have a set of folks internally. Along with our PXI labs people. [00:32:52] Vince Menzione: Okay. [00:32:53] Oguo Atuanya: When we’re actually intaking, you know? So [00:32:56] Vince Menzione: you’re using AI as well on that side of Yeah. We use AI Doing your discovery process for the customers. Yes. [00:33:02] Using [00:33:02] Oguo Atuanya: AI as well. It, it uses ai, the rules that are being written into it, you know, [00:33:06] Vince Menzione: it [00:33:06] Oguo Atuanya: processes, Hey, it’s gotta be applicable from an SMB perspective. Right. This [00:33:10] Vince Menzione: is very cool. [00:33:11] Oguo Atuanya: Right. So, um, you know, we, we do that, we ensure that it’s, um. It’s applicable. There’s no guesswork. Right. Then we put it on the, um, on the agent store. [00:33:22] Right. And then, um, you know, we help the, uh, uh, MSPs, um, architect and fit solutions around the agents, you know, for very specific outcomes. That’s, uh, so it’s, [00:33:36] Vince Menzione: this is fascinating. [00:33:37] Oguo Atuanya: It’s a very curated process. [00:33:39] Vince Menzione: Yeah. So for, um, the market, the MSP market or MIP market that are watching and listening today, and maybe they’re not with PAX eight yet. [00:33:49] Like what would, what would be the, the, I mean you’ve already described what the differentiation Yeah. Just, I’m just thinking out loud here. Like what would you say to them today, especially as this market is changing, not your market, but the, just the technology sector, the, the shifts are happening so fast right now. [00:34:07] What would be the. I guess the one piece of advice you would give to this community of technology companies out there that they should think about for 10 26. [00:34:18] Oguo Atuanya: It’s, it’s really refrain from Yeah. Selling just tools and infrastructure. Yeah. [00:34:30] Vince Menzione: Which is the way a lot of them have been structured. That’s right. [00:34:32] They’ve done right. [00:34:33] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. Think about [00:34:34] Vince Menzione: they’ve gone down a road with a vendor because they got great margins for some reason. [00:34:37] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. So understand your customer, the space they’re playing and how you can build, you know, solutions, uh, for them. Be specific vis-a-vis the solutions that you’re building. Right. [00:34:50] Again, um. I was having a conversation yesterday with Nina Hard, and we’re talking about the high heat of, uh, traffic verticals, right? Yeah. Uh, you know, things like healthcare, uh, things like financial services, right? Be very specific in the solutions that you’re building, right? Don’t experiment too much land on what an applicable solution is. [00:35:18] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Predictable [00:35:18] Oguo Atuanya: solution. Make it repeatable, make it. Scalable. Emphasize on the upscale and enablement right, and focus on the monetization. Understand exactly how you’re gonna articulate the value add and the ROI. To [00:35:40] Vince Menzione: To the customer. [00:35:41] Oguo Atuanya: The SMB. [00:35:41] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:35:42] Oguo Atuanya: Because that’s where a lot of folks struggle, right. They still cannot do all that, [00:35:47] Vince Menzione: and they get stuck on the cost to the customer. [00:35:50] They get hung up, I guess, is what I would say. Right. They don’t, they don’t articulate the value enough. [00:35:55] Oguo Atuanya: Well, they’re not selling outcomes. [00:35:57] Vince Menzione: They’re not selling outcomes. They’re selling, [00:35:58] Oguo Atuanya: they’re trying to piece together tools. [00:36:00] Vince Menzione: Hot [00:36:00] Oguo Atuanya: and hot [00:36:01] Vince Menzione: tools, [00:36:01] Oguo Atuanya: spot applications. [00:36:02] Vince Menzione: Tools, tools is the best way to [00:36:03] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:36:04] Vince Menzione: To describe it [00:36:04] Oguo Atuanya: to [00:36:05] Vince Menzione: the [00:36:05] Oguo Atuanya: company and all else spills come to Pax it. [00:36:07] Yes. Teach you how to do it. [00:36:09] Vince Menzione: Well, I, I’m fascinated to join you in June at Beyond. [00:36:13] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:36:13] Vince Menzione: Um, same [00:36:15] Oguo Atuanya: here. [00:36:15] Vince Menzione: So dates again. [00:36:18] Oguo Atuanya: Vincent, you put me, I think it’s, uh, June 7th to the ninth. [00:36:21] Vince Menzione: June 7th to the ninth. [00:36:22] Oguo Atuanya: And this is, uh, in Salt Lake City. In Salt Lake City [00:36:25] Vince Menzione: this [00:36:25] Oguo Atuanya: year. [00:36:25] Vince Menzione: Salt [00:36:25] Oguo Atuanya: Lake [00:36:26] Vince Menzione: year. Yeah. You had it, you had it in a different in Colorado last year [00:36:28] Oguo Atuanya: we had it in Denver. [00:36:29] So this is actually, this is actually, um, this is [00:36:32] Vince Menzione: your hometown, [00:36:33] Oguo Atuanya: the company. Yeah. This is, this is the mainstream. Beyond. So [00:36:36] Vince Menzione: I love [00:36:37] Oguo Atuanya: it. This is a big event. [00:36:38] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:36:38] Oguo Atuanya: Right. ’cause we also have regional events. [00:36:40] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Like four or 5,000 people. I think last year [00:36:43] Oguo Atuanya: it was right around three to 4,000. Three to 4,000 last year. [00:36:45] I think we’re gonna get, you know, more than that. Yeah. In, in, uh, salt Lake City. Then of course we have, um, a regional beyond. We just had the Em me version in, um, Berlin. Um. Netherlands, [00:36:56] Vince Menzione: Netherlands [00:36:57] Oguo Atuanya: after that. [00:36:57] Vince Menzione: But you did Berlin last year? We [00:36:59] Oguo Atuanya: did Berlin. Berlin last I knew years ago. Next year we’ll be in, uh, uh, Copenhagen. [00:37:03] Vince Menzione: Okay. [00:37:03] Oguo Atuanya: And then we’ll also have, um, uh, Asia version. Nice. Uh, in 27 [00:37:08] Vince Menzione: Milano. Maybe the year after would be good. [00:37:11] Oguo Atuanya: We, we, we need to arrange, I’ll work with, um, uh, you know, uh, MCEO. Harold. [00:37:16] Vince Menzione: I love it. I love it. [00:37:17] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. [00:37:17] Vince Menzione: Um. I would, uh, so I have one question. I might’ve asked you this question before, but I would love to just ask you now. [00:37:24] ’cause times have changed. Our lives change, but this is my favorite question. I ask all my guests, especially all my good friends like you, you’re hosting a dinner party and you can host a dinner party anywhere in the world. It might be here, it might be in Houston, it might be in Kenya, it might be anywhere. [00:37:41] We maybe, maybe it’s in EMEA or AsiaPac. Um. You can invite any three guests from the present or the past to this amazing dinner, whom would you invite? A guo and why? [00:37:55] Oguo Atuanya: So this one always gets me because [00:37:58] Vince Menzione: I love that. [00:37:59] Oguo Atuanya: Yeah. So, you know, you and I have talked before, right? So there’s a standing, uh, invitation for my mom, you know, who know? [00:38:05] Love that. Yes. Swear a while ago. [00:38:07] Vince Menzione: Yes. Yes. [00:38:07] Oguo Atuanya: And then, you know, my sister also who [00:38:09] Vince Menzione: passed [00:38:10] Oguo Atuanya: away, passed away in May [00:38:10] Vince Menzione: last year. [00:38:11] Oguo Atuanya: So I’d love to have this tea because, you know. [00:38:14] Vince Menzione: Some great conversations. We’ll see how [00:38:15] Oguo Atuanya: he’s doing and, you know, and check [00:38:17] Vince Menzione: in with [00:38:17] Oguo Atuanya: how, how, how things, um, are going and now Wow. This third one, [00:38:24] Vince Menzione: who’s the third one? [00:38:26] Oguo Atuanya: This third [00:38:26] Vince Menzione: one is, he talked about your son a little bit the last couple of days. Yeah. Days. But I don’t think, [00:38:30] Oguo Atuanya: I don’t think he’s, he wants to be bored. [00:38:33] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:38:33] Oguo Atuanya: Having, having, um, a dinner with you [00:38:35] Vince Menzione: and you’ll be there. So now we need to ask add one more [00:38:38] Oguo Atuanya: person. Yeah. We need to add one more person. I’m thinking about that. [00:38:42] MSB. Who’s become an MIPI [00:38:46] Vince Menzione: love it. [00:38:47] Oguo Atuanya: I [00:38:47] Vince Menzione: would [00:38:47] Oguo Atuanya: love to have him at the, or her at the table. [00:38:50] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:38:51] Oguo Atuanya: And, and talk about what that journey was like. [00:38:53] Vince Menzione: I love it. I love it. Well, that’ll be a fun dinner and I might come by and bring dessert or something. [00:38:58] Oguo Atuanya: You, [00:38:58] Vince Menzione: you, you, [00:38:59] Oguo Atuanya: you’re [00:38:59] Vince Menzione: always maybe just stop by and say, [00:39:00] Oguo Atuanya: you’re always welcome. [00:39:01] Vince Menzione: I’d love to meet your mom and your sister. So [00:39:03] Oguo Atuanya: thank you Vince. [00:39:04] Vince Menzione: Um, you are a great friend. I’m so excited to have you here in the room. Your organization is doing incredible things and we love having you as part of ultimate partner in our community. So, so great to see you again, my friend. [00:39:18] Oguo Atuanya: Appreciate it, Vince. [00:39:19] It’s always a, a pleasure being here with you and seeing you and, uh, I can’t wait to see you beyond. [00:39:24] Vince Menzione: I love [00:39:24] Oguo Atuanya: it folks out there. It’s selling out. So [00:39:26] Vince Menzione: babe, [00:39:27] Oguo Atuanya: get our, [00:39:27] Vince Menzione: get your tickets [00:39:28] Oguo Atuanya: soon. June 7th to ninth. It’s, uh, the biggest show in the MSU [00:39:31] Vince Menzione: world. It’s the biggest show. And then we, uh, is also gonna participate, I believe, at our, at our Bellevue event, Bellview Forum, which will be an incredible event. [00:39:39] Yeah. And May 13th, May 11th, through the 13th. I want to thank you for watching. I wanna thank you for listening to this episode of The Ultimate Eye, to partnering and following our YouTube channel, ultimate Partner, and for being part of our community at Ultimate Partner. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. [00:39:55] Thank you. Don’t forget, ultimate Partner Live is coming soon, may 11 through the 13th in beautiful Bellevue, Washington. I hope to see you there.
Greg Hirsch wants more seasoned professionals to understand how valuable their experience can be to an ETA journey.Topics in Greg's interview:Fifteen years learning systems at Sysco FoodsFailed startup revealed builder, not founder pathHelped scale trucking roll-up through industry consolidationRevisiting his “heck no” pileInvests in timeless blue-collar essential industriesLate-40s searches benefit from life experienceSpouse alignment essential before risking family securityHis wife's perspective on the processGrowth comes from removing operational frictionHis wife's perspective on the processReferences and how to contact Greg:LinkedInHirsch VenturesGet a free review of your books & financial ops from System Six (a $500 value):Book a call with Tim or hello@systemsix.com and mention Acquiring MindsDownload the New CEO's Guide to Human Resources from Aspen HR:From this page or contact jenny@aspenhr.comGet complimentary due diligence on your acquisition's insurance & benefits program:Oberle Risk Strategies - Search Fund TeamConnect with Acquiring Minds:See past + future interviews on the YouTube channelConnect with host Will Smith on LinkedInFollow Will on TwitterEdited by Anton Rohozov and produced by Pam Cameron
Join Alex Hormozi At The Live Scaling Workshop in Las Vegas: https://www.acquisition.com/o-vegasScaling any business requires a clear input-output equation that defines core actions to drive revenue growth. In this episode, Alex Hormozi (whose service companies generate over $30M annually) advises five entrepreneurs on how to scale their stagnant service businesses. To achieve success in entrepreneurship, you have to make consistent trade-offs between ambition, family time, distractions, and hiring top talent to run the business.In this episode00:00 Scaling a chiropractor stuck at $2.4M revenue06:41 Pricing strategies for SMB marketing to minimize churn11:52 Handling AI threats to a website as a service (WaaS) business17:14 Overcoming supply constraints to scale a CFO advisory company25:39 Trade-offs to scale a roofing business from $6M to $100MMore Value:Download your free personalized $100M scaling roadmap in under 30 seconds: https://www.acquisition.com/roadmap?el=yt-alex-486r&htrafficsource=youtubeJoin The Live Scaling Workshop In Las Vegas: https://www.acquisition.com/o-vegasDiscover The Easiest Business I Can Help You Start (Free Trial): https://www.skool.com/hormoziFree Books and Video Courses: https://www.acquisition.com/trainingGet the $100M Book Bundle: https://shop.acquisition.com/pages/100m-book-bundleFollow Alex Hormozi's Socials:LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition
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