Kidless

This week we explore the concepts of False Self and True Self, as defined by that book we've been referencing lately. While of course we all intuitively have a sense of those definitions as they apply to ourselves, we try to explore the concepts more deeply. We specifically discuss examples of how we've operated from a false self place by prioritizing others' rules and expectations over our own, but we also talk about growing into more true self expression, even if it makes our lives messier sometimes. These concepts are also applied to the choice to remain kidless. Resource: Comprehensive Dictionary of Psychoanalysis by Salman AkhtarIG: @kidless_pod

A discussion on mourning. We discuss: 1. The role of mourning in human life. 2. How mourning can be applied narrowly (a death) or broadly (all losses and changes, big and little). 3. It's necessary for peaceful passage through life. 4. How idealization of what was lost can prevent mourning and therefore peaceful passage through life. 5. Ashley hurts Eric's feelings early in the show, which is discussed toward the end and helps us  get to a final part of the discussion: 6.  If you make a choice, and you feel sad once the choice is made, that doesn't mean you've made the wrong decision. You're not a robot. Let yourself feel it. **One thing we didn't say in the episode: Even if you're sad after choosing to not have children, it doesn't mean you've made the wrong decision. You have to let yourself acknowledge the path you didn't take and what it means so that you can be open to what blessings you will receive. We tried to use as many examples from our lives as we could think of. Hope you find this helpful. Resource: Comprehensive Dictionary of Psychoanalysis by Salman AkhtarIG: @ashley.mason.cmhc

This week we tackle this definition of nostalgia: "Nostalgia is a mixed affective state of pain and joy associated with the wish to recapture an idealized past. Pain is evoked by the awareness of separation from old objects (people) and joy by a fantasized reunion with an idealized version of them through reminiscences."We use our own experiences and those of some celebs like Leonardo Dicaprio to think about this concept. Find Ashley on IG: @ashley.mason.cmhc

We ponder meaningful and marked goodbyes and their importance while reflecting on  past experiences as well as our current parting with our home of 5 years . IG: @ashley.mason.cmhc

As any real conversation should, we meander a bit until we get to the meat of something currently important to us. We do end up connecting some dots, and the takeaway is something like: you bring your battles to your doorstep, you choose them, and you can also unchoose them. IG: @ashley.mason.cmhc

We take you through this past week's chaos - are we selling our house? Getting an apartment? Developing tumors or watching our house collapse? Divorcing? All possible.(Jkjkjkjkjk I watch Eric sleep at night - you think I'd let him leave me??? -A)IG: @ashley.mason.cmhc

A little follow-up on how Eric's doing post-surgery and then a bigger discussion about how important is to claim and feel claimed in our relationships. How taking ownership over friendships helps to keep them afloat. 

Well, it's a shorter episode because it's still freshly post-op for Eric, and he gets tired easily, but we wanted to check in and update everyone on the nose surgery and how it went/how it's going. 

We start with a brief discussion about whether non-parents are justified to speak about parenting, and we follow-up on the Vegas trip and let you in on some of the internal battles we fought re: [our fears of] irresponsibility while simply trying to live our best high fashion lives. Contact us on IG: @ashley.mason.cmhc

Do you guys go out? Do you guys see people? Are we the problem? Isolation is the name of the game for us - HOW DO YOU MAKE FRIENDS?! DM us on IG: @ashley.mason.cmhc

We talk firings and other pieces of leftover shame from our 20s that informed our pursuits in our 30s. Tell us your stories!IG: @ashley.mason.cmhc

It's about time we talked about...time. What does it mean to you? IG: @ashley.mason.cmhc

After last week's photo op (for the podcast thumbnail) gave Ashley a distorted sense of her face, she obsessed about aging all week. We discuss different facets of aging and how we're thinking about it right now. Reach out if so inclined: IG: @ashley.mason.cmhc

We're back (again)! We catch up and say a bit about where we've been, where we're going, and what we want for this iteration of the podcast. That convo leads to talking about a recent experience for Ashley that helped both of us think more deeply about determining for success for ourselves versus waiting for the validation from others. You can reach Ashley on IG: @ashley.mason.cmhc

...makes you behave in a regrettable fashion until you learn your lesson and move forward like an adult.Back this week to discuss more updates on how we're doing in these quarintense (nailed it) times. We give some updates on alcohol use or lack thereof, and we use the Beastie Boys documentary as a reference and jumping off point for discussions on failure and success and having to pull ourselves back from the brink of anxiety and panic...with some levity, we hope, while finding a way to quote a Kelly Clarkson song. Please note: we mention a quote often quoted by Obama, and I believe it's actually attributed to Martin Luther King, Jr., and I wish we (I) hadn't butchered it in the episode.

This week we follow up on the fight from last week with a couple reflections, then we dive into a conversation with Randi, Eric's older sister. The conversation floats from their shared and unshared memories of childhood to Randi's personal and career goals and ultimately where she has ended up in the times of COVID. We think her situation highlights and captures an important experience in the US right now, and it gives you a break from focusing on us two clowns for a week. Randi is very much her own person and is unapologetic for who she is, nor should she be. We were delighted to speak with her.

Settle in for a romp through a low-key fight between Ashley and Eric. Also, we try to apologize for insensitive things we've said only to go on and offer more insensitive thoughts and ideas. But mostly the focus is on the battle to survive and the tools we've used in the past and the tools we use now to cope. We flesh out the idea that it's really hard to do much self-improvement when it feels like your survival is threatened, and we touch on ways you might be reacting to the current crisis based on your past.Thanks for listening! We love you!

Conversations in quarantine. We check in with each other about our past weeks in quarantine. In this episode we touch base on our anger, restlessness, hyperarousal, and overblown concerns about aging. We're holding all of you in mind as we go into this coming week. Take care of yourselves!

We're quarantined and so are you. We return to chat about our experience of this global pandemic thus far. We talk about how we've regressed into some old behaviors but also have had to create new ones in order to cope with the isolation and distance. We also throw out our political perspectives, to the delight of no one, and we basically are just trying to be some voices for you to connect to while we're all having to tolerate separation. We've missed you and maybe you've missed us too. Let us know. -Ashley and Eric

This episode we interview Katy, a person previously unknown to us, which is a first for this podcast. She is childless and childfree, both terms apply to her, depending on whether the feeling of loss is taking center stage or the sense of empowerment related to taking control of her life and her choices. She wanted children, but it was an arduous and exhausting journey, and it ultimately didn't get her what she wanted - a child. We talk to her about this process and how she thinks about her transition from wanting children to settling into a life that's bountiful in other ways. Find Katy on IG: @chasing.creationShe has a website which is linked on her IG, and she hosts webinars on the topic of life after struggles with infertility.

...into a family that should've kept procreation to a low roar. Oh Succession, you bring us so much joy. Succession is filled with narcissism, antisocial personality trends, corruption, money, repressed and internalized anger, and painful, wretched, and ultimately relatable family dynamics. The show is full of teachable moments - helping us all learn about people who should not have [had] children. We thought we'd use this show to talk about some of the concepts we've already discussed on this show. Let us know what you think. Are you into this show as much as we are? It's not a total replacement for GoT, but it'll do. IG: @kidlesspodcastEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

We're back! We talk about whether we've changed our minds about being Kidless, address some feedback we've received since starting, as well as our latest standards for those who decide to become parents (spoiler alert: JLo is our new standard.) We give current life updates and take a little time to discuss why we keep the topics broad on this podcast - we just don't think the choice whether or not to have children is all that interesting. Let us know your thoughts! kidlesspod@gmail.comIG: kidlesspodcastTwitter: kidlesspodThanks for listening!

This week we talk about anger with the delightful Jenevieve - if you haven't listened to our first episode with her, see that you do. Now, about anger. We talk about the different forms and discuss the distinctions between them all and how one becomes another - we differentiate between aggression and sadism, and the difference between anger and rage and hatred and a grievance. Didn't know you could make so many distinctions? Didn't know that if you don't express anger, it ends up as the other types? Neither did we, but we found it helpful as we applied it to our own lives, and hopefully it will help you see the importance of utilizing your feelings of anger in your lives as well. Articles mentioned: Jan Weiner:LinkChristopher Bollas:LinkAs always, hit us up!IG: @kidlesspodcastEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

This week we talk about parentification of children - when you take care of your parent(s). It might be somewhat healthy and normal to do it here and there for brief moments, like if they have an accident and need physical care or you learn how to do some grocery shopping or pay some bills, but when you become their main emotional support, and it becomes an entrenched pattern in the family, adverse outcomes abound. We talk about the different kinds of parentification, the effects on you as a child and adult, and the way it affects your relationships and your mental health. As always, we try to illustrate the concept by relating it to ourselves as individuals and as a couple. Let us know what you think! IG: @kidlesspodcastEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

Last time we discussed defenses we all employ to deal with unwanted feelings and parts of ourselves - like projection. This time we go further into the psyche and talk about projective identification - i.e. we project out those unwanted parts into others and how they handle it builds our sense of ourselves and of them. This happens in our closest relationships - mother/infant and intimate partners. Eric and Ashley use pieces of their relationship to explain the concept and to discuss how this process has helped them both grow as a couple and individually. Also discussed are ways in which this can go poorly in our earliest relationships and then set us up for problems down the road in our intimate relationships. This should highlight for everyone why it's so important to think deeply about the choice to have children and what you will bring into that relationship with your child. If you can start to understand this process, you can begin to more deeply understand the places you feel stuck in your life.

Today we dive into defenses - all the tricks/skills/strategies we ALL use to ward off unwanted thoughts and feelings. We discuss the most common defenses and try to supply helpful examples. It's important to be aware of these because while you may have successfully allowed feelings and thoughts to drop out of your awareness, they are actually still determining your behavior and your feelings...you just don't remember the reason anymore. These defenses can impact how parents see their children or how you were seen as a child, for example, or how you see your partner. The more accurate you are in seeing yourself, the more accurate you will be in seeing others, with the benefit of feeling a bit more at ease with yourself and your relationships. We find this content fascinating, so let us know if you'd like more stuff like this. IG: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

We sit down this week and chat with Ashley's sister and her husband. They chose a different life from us, but we still have fun with them. For those that know us, they've heard us talk about these two characters a million times - they share some entertaining stories about themselves, and we learn a little more about the choices the've made for their lives. Basically, you get a sense of what it's like when the four of us hang out and talk. Some content isn't for the faint of heart. Do enjoy. Get at us! IG: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

We're back! We are long-time watchers of anything Barby does on the social meeds, so we were really excited to use this podcast as an excuse to finally sit down and have a conversation with her and get to know her. We find her to be as gorgeous as she is hilarious, open, bawdy, fiery, opinionated...real. We talk to her about her life growing up with a depressed mom, immigrating to the US from Mexico as a young child, becoming a young mother, choosing that stripper lyyyyfe, all the other ways she has chosen to uniquely and creatively live her own individual life and walk down her own path, as well as the growth she continues to pursue. We say this on the episode, but we'll say it here, too - she's so compelling, engaging, delightful. This was pure fun for us. Hope you enjoy. Find Barby on IG: @barbywithayyFind us on IG: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail us: kidlesspod@gmail.com

Look, we're stressing about global warming and war and our planet's death as well as our individual deaths, so we're passing that on to our nice listeners. We try to make meaning of our species' death as well as our own personal deaths - can death be something we learn to accept and welcome without diminishing and/or deadening our lives while we're still alive? Media mentioned: The Biggest Little Farm (documentary) and Learning to Die (book.) Let us know your thoughts: IG: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.comThank you for listening!!

Happy Pride month, everyone! Pride weekend in our city got us thinking about identity. Are you someone who feels you know yourself or are you someone who still struggles to put the pieces together and make sense of it all? We contend that maybe having a super clear identity is the death of liveliness, yet it would also be nice to have a sense of self. What's the balance? We think through it this week on the podcast. Let us know your thoughts:Twitter: @kidlesspodIG: @kidlesspodcastEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

First of all, dammit if we didn't even fucking reference The Greatest Showman's greatest song. Second, we're talking about the feeling of lack that we feel all humans experience...like it's a basic part of being human. What ways do we feel driven to try to fill the hole, the gaps, in an effort to feel more whole and less empty - kids? religion? substances? careers? social groups? Third, we kind of wind our way through this topic, but I think we end up making some sense. Basically, this one's about feeling not enough and then grappling with that feeling rather than trying to cover it up or avoid it altogether. As always, let us know your thoughts. IG: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

We discuss a controversial tweet by @caro - Caroline McCarthy - about lap infants in business class. She got death threats for her feelings, guys...but who among us really wants to deal with kids on planes? We try to think about this from different angles on this week's episode. Open to all feedback, but if you feel like lashing out at us, please try to listen to the whole episode before doing so. FYI - we're taking a break next week, but we'll be back with good stuff in two weeks!IG: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.comThanks for listening and subscribing!

Or have neither. First of all, we fixed the sound issue - we're at least 99% sure we did. Let us know. Second - we're talking religion. We both grew up in religious homes but grew into atheists. We discuss the impact of a religious-raising on both of us and how it impacted our self-esteem and contributed to our desire or lack of desire to parent. Eric also speaks at length about the Mormon church, as he recently got triggered by hearing many horror stories about BYU's Honor Code Office. If you're curious about an inside experience of the Mormon church, this episode is for you. Thanks for listening! IG: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

This week we sit down to talk to Chantelle Bourdeaux, our dear friend. Chan discusses what it was like moving to very white Salt Lake after living in other places and how that, as well as her family dynamics, informed her current life choices (relationship, kids, etc...) and general social presence. We view Chan as being in charge of Salt Lake, but she doesn't see herself that way, which is probably why she's always pushin' and grindin' and succeedin'. We hope you'll love her as much as we do. Let us know your thoughts! IG: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

We sit down to ask each other questions we haven’t asked, things we want to know. Questions include: Why did you want to turn off Beyonce’s Homecoming? What do you resent about people with children? What did you learn from psychedelics? What do you resent about people without children? Would you like to have kids as a way to heal old wounds? How did Beyonce’s Homecoming affect you as a white person? Tune in for the answers! We both felt a bit anxious and hostile before sitting down for this episode, and that seems to come through in our conversation. Rather than wait to record, we decided to go ahead with it and let that hostility pull up a chair and hang out with us for a while. As always, let us know your thoughts! IG: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

If you're not nauseated by that title, take a listen as we talk about our decision to move to another country - India - and then our decision to live apart after living in India for a while. We discuss what we wish we would've considered beforehand, what it was like to live there and how that led to Ashley's decision to move, what it was like to live apart, AND what it was like once we were living together again. It was hard enough on us without the added factor of children to think about and care for. In fact, we think not having children gave us the freedom to really use the entire experience to grow as a couple and as individuals. As usual, new victor/victim updates at the end. Let us know what you think! IG: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

This week we sit with our friend Jordan Blok and get to know them better. Even after knowing them for a few years, a lot of what they said was new to us, as it tends to go with Jordan. Getting to know Jordan is an exercise in patience and tolerance and pure entertainment - they are holding all the parts of themself, and the listener's job is to sit back and help contain it and appreciate it and let the it cis-normative-patriarchy of it all wash over you. Hope you'll enjoy. Find Jordan on social media - IG: @jordanblokFind us: IG: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

Jk, jk, they didn't abandon us. Not even a little bit. We sit down to have an unplanned (for them) conversation with our dear friends Tara and Eva about what it was like for all of us when they decided to start a family. We touch on what it was like for the two of them to feel differently about having children, how it changed our friendships, and what helped us all with the transition. Tara and Eva participate in victor/victim, and Ashley offers maybe the most unpleasant victor/victim share to date. Find Eva and Tara on the social meeds: IG: @lezglam, @tara.jeanneFind us on the social meeds: IG: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.comAs always, thank you for listening!

In this week's episode we discuss the societal push for happiness, as if happy is the only state or emotion that matters. We reflect on what made us happy as kids and use that to think about how we view happiness and true joy as adults. We also touch on all the advice out there that includes so-called shortcuts to happiness and highlight the importance of allowing other emotions to arise. Stay tuned to the end for the latest victor/victim. Thank you for listening! Let us know what you're thinking! IG: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

We discuss body modifications and what they mean to us as individuals. Discuss the link between the ways we use our bodies and our childhoods/early experiences with our mothers. We think some people use their bodies to mother/parent, but we have figured out ways to use ours that provide meaning for us and reflect our own struggles. *Cosmetics and cosmetic procedures are briefly touched on, and they'll be a bigger part of the discussion in episodes down the road. As always, victor/victim at the end. In Chris Harrison parlance: The biggest/saddest defeat in Kidless history. Thank you for listening, and please share with your friends!All thoughts and feedback wanted: IG: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

As Colton Underwood's time as The Bachelor nears its end, join us as we offer our thoughts on the most recent fence-jumping episode. Something we didn't discuss was just how he was physically able to hurl his brute body over it, but we do get around to offering opinions on many other unimportant details. As always, thanks for giving us a platform for these urgent matters. Tell us your thoughts! Instagram: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

Jenevieve is beautiful inside and out. She's also a mother, but not necessarily through conscious choice. She discusses her family history which affected her feelings about having kids, and she takes us through her emotional journey with having a daughter, all the while feeling very ambivalent about being a parent. We're getting our sea legs here as we interview someone together for the first time, but we hope no matter what path you've chosen, you'll get something out of it. As always, another installment of Victor/Victim is at the end. Check Jenevieve out on Instagram: @BeehivelforalcoPlease rate on iTunes and hit us with any all feedback you have: Instagram: @kidlesspodcastTwitter: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.comThanks for listening!

We look back at the month of February and reflect on the highs and lows, the lighter and heavier parts...all in an effort to create a meaningful narrative for our lives over time. Find us on the social meeds: Twitter: @kidlesspodIG: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.com

In this episode you'll hear us struggle with whether or not we actually deserve to be doing a podcast. Jury's out...but we hope to show how that same question is tied to the kid question. We follow up on some feedback from the last episode, and we give you another installment of Victor/Victim. As always, we are very open to all kinds of feedback, and we love hearing from you. Twitter: @kidlesspodInstagram: @kidlesspodEmail: kidlesspod@gmail.comThank you for listening!

Listen to us discuss our thinking around deciding to remain child-free - it's not a decision we took lightly, and we think there are risks and rewards no matter which way you go. Also, stick around for the end where we get into our first segment of Victor/Victim where we'll be observing each other over the week for...quirks...shall we say? Thanks for joining us, and as always, we welcome your feedback. Find us on twitter: @kidlesspod. Leave any comments there or email us at kidlesspod@gmail.com.

In this episode we share a little about our idea for the podcast - creating a life with meaning without children, and we share some mildly interesting tidbits about ourselves.