Podcasts about Temple Lot

Fifteen months after the Church of Christ's inception in April 1830, the young prophet Joseph Smith received a revelation indicating that Independence, Jackson County, Missouri, was to be the “center-place” of Zion and a “spot for a temple is lying westward, upon a lot that is not far from the court-house.” Dedication of this spot […] The post Conference Talks: The Past and Future of the Temple Lot in Jackson County, Missouri first appeared on The Interpreter Foundation.

In this special episode, we discuss one of the least understood events in church history: the Temple Lot Trial. Along with this, we discuss what was learned about Joseph Smith's polygamy in the trial testimonies.

Abstract: Fifteen months after the Church of Christ's inception in April 1830, Joseph Smith received a revelation indicating that Independence, Jackson County, Missouri, was to be the “center-place” of Zion and a “spot for a temple is lying westward, upon a lot that is not far from the court-house.” Dedication of this spot for the […] The post The Past and Future of the Temple Lot in Independence, Jackson County, Missouri first appeared on The Interpreter Foundation.

Abstract: Fifteen months after the Church of Christ's inception in April 1830, Joseph Smith received a revelation indicating that Independence, Jackson County, Missouri, was to be the “center-place” of Zion and a “spot for a temple is lying westward, upon a lot that is not far from the court-house.” Dedication of this spot for the […] The post The Past and Future of the Temple Lot in Independence, Jackson County, Missouri first appeared on The Interpreter Foundation.

Abstract: Fifteen months after the Church of Christ's inception in April 1830, Joseph Smith received a revelation indicating that Independence, Jackson County, Missouri, was to be the “center-place” of Zion and a “spot for a temple is lying westward, upon a lot that is not far from the court-house.” Dedication of this spot for the […] The post The Past and Future of the Temple Lot in Independence, Jackson County, Missouri first appeared on The Interpreter Foundation.

Abstract: Fifteen months after the Church of Christ’s inception in April 1830, Joseph Smith received a revelation indicating that Independence, Jackson County, Missouri, was to be the “center-place” of Zion and a “spot for a temple is lying westward, upon a lot that is not far from the court-house.” Dedication of this spot for the […] The post The Past and Future of the Temple Lot in Independence, Jackson County, Missouri first appeared on The Interpreter Foundation.

Please SUPPORT THESE FREE PODCASTS by donating at our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/latterdaymedia?fan_landing=trueEVERY BIT HELPS! :)09 Come Follow Me with Joseph Smith Historian Kay GodfreyTo contact Kay, email: FootstepsOfJoseph@gmail.com~~~~~~~~~~Come Follow Me 2021 - Doctrine & CovenantsKay takes us through Joseph Smith's Part 2 of "The Echo of a Beating Heart" 1830-1832.QUESTIONS answered in this episode:~Who said that Independence, Missouri was "a land of beauty beyond description...?"~What is another name for Independence, according to Joseph Smith's and the Lord's description?~Which D&C Section talks about the Lamanites blossoming as a rose? What was the Lord's answer? What are 4 things that revelation says about Independence, Missouri?~Who are the 4 main property owners near the Temple Lot in Independence?~ Who started the "Hedrickites, and why?~What were on the stones found on the Temple Lot?~How many Restoration Churches are there?~Who did Joseph heal instantly in this episode?~What did Joseph say he could reveal 100 fold if the people were prepared to receive them?~What happened to the PERSECUTORS OF THE CHURCH and Joseph Smith?~What did Joseph ask Emma 3 times in a row, and what was it about?~~~~~~~~Kay Godfrey is a period historian of the life of Joseph Smith. He is a graduate of Brigham Young University. He holds degrees in Historic Archaeology and Anthropology as well as Law Enforcement and Justice Administration.He has studied and researched the life of the Prophet Joseph Smith for over 45 years. He has done extensive “on-site” research in New Hampshire, Vermont, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois and Missouri. He has spoken to the issue of the “Trials of the Prophet Joseph” at numerous symposiums in Nauvoo, Il. and Independence, Mo. He has edited books and videos for various authors on the historical accuracy of materials pertaining to Joseph Smith. Kay serves on numerous boards and foundations such as: Ancient American Archaeology, Missouri Mormon Frontier Foundation, the Foundation for Indigenous Research and Mormonism and the Nauvoo, Illinois and Topsfield, Massachusetts Historical Societies.Kay lectures regularly to missionaries on the topic of modern-day restoration, most recently speaking to the missionaries and investigators of the New Hampshire Manchester, Oklahoma Tulsa and Portland Oregon Missions. He has conducted firesides from Calgary, Canada to Fort Smith, Arkansas.He has authored a comprehensive four-part presentation detailing the life of Joseph Smith. This history is entitled: “Following the Footsteps of Joseph”. Kay’s material has been requested by such institutions as Oberlin College Archives, (Oberlin, Ohio) to be filed with the Spaulding Manuscript documents, Brigham Young University, in celebration of the bi-centennial celebration of Joseph Smith’s birth, the Joseph Smith Memorial Site, (Sharon, Vermont) as a teaching tool for new missionary couples and the archives department of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Kay has been conducting domestic Church History tours for Morris Murdock and Legacy Travel since 1990. He also takes groups to Israel and European (Apostle) destinations. He speaks Hebrew and can read Egyptian hieroglyphs. His wife, Debra speaks French. He has served in numerous ward and stake callings including the High Council of the Meridian South Stake, Meridian, Idaho. Kay and his wife Debra recently served a mission to Sharon, Vermont, where they were involved in numerous historical preservation endeavors including having secured permission from Topsfield, MA, to have aSupport the show (http://www.bookofmormonevidencestreaming.com)

Many churches (as many as 200) have claimed to be the true restored church of Christ returned to earth through Joseph Smith. This may surprise many Latter-day Saints who complain to Christians about the many denominations. Yet these churches all claim that THEY are the one true church and The Church of Jesus Christ of … Continue reading Splinter Groups Temple Lot Part 2 →

Many churches (as many as 200) have claimed to be the true restored church of Christ returned to earth through Joseph Smith. This may surprise many Latter-day Saints who complain to Christians about the many denominations. Yet these churches all claim that THEY are the one true church and The Church of Jesus Christ of … Continue reading Splinter Groups Temple Lot Part 1 →

In our final conversation with historian Jean Addams, we will talk about similarities and differences between LDS and Church of Christ (Temple Lot) worship services. GT:  Tell us a little bit more about their worship services. Is it pretty similar to an LDS service? Jean:  Yes, and no. I mean, they have an opening and […] The post * Temple Lot Worship Services (Part 7 of 7) appeared first on Gospel Tangents.

Let’s face it.  Missouri settlers didn’t take kindly to outsiders.  When the state of Missouri held a public auction to sell state lands, non-Mormon Jones Flournoy bought the land.  A week later, Bishop Partridge came and purchased land that would be known as the Temple Lot.  Did Partridge get a fair price?  Historian Jean Addams […] The post How Jones Flournoy is Connected to Restoration (Part 3 of 7) appeared first on Gospel Tangents.

Following Granville Hedrick’s return to Missouri, the RLDS Church eventually made their way to Independence as well.  But even though the Church of Christ had purchased the land legally, the RLDS Church felt they should be the true owners of the Temple Lot.  Court battles ensued.  Jean Addams will tell how these bitter battles turned […] The post Dispute Over the Temple Lot (Part 2 of 7) appeared first on Gospel Tangents.

I think very few people are aware of a small Mormon group sometimes called the Hedrickites.  Their official name is the Church of Christ, and they were the first Mormon group to return to Missouri and purchased part of the original temple lot where Joseph Smith had a revelation that 24 temples would be built […] The post Intro to Church of Christ (Temple Lot) Part 1 of 7 appeared first on Gospel Tangents.

On this episode, we chat with Melvin C. Johnson, author of Life and Times of John Pierce Hawley: A Mormon Ulysses of the American West. We discuss Hawley's following Lyman Wight to the Mormon colony in TX, his conversion to Brigham Young's LDS Church in Utah, accusations of John's involvement with the massacre at Mountain Meadows, John's eventual split with the Utah church over polygamy, Brigham Young's Adam-God doctrine, and blood atonement, his joining the RLDS Church and later testimony at the Temple Lot trial. “An essential read for those interested in studying the competing strands of the Mormon Restoration movement in mid-nineteenth-century frontier America.”—Richard E. Bennett, Professor, Church History and Doctrine, Brigham Young University Listen through your podcast app by searching for the Greg Kofford Books Authorcast, or watch this interview on YouTube at youtube.com/gkbooks. Q&A with the author Free Sample Preview Life and Times of John Pierce Hawley: A Mormon Ulysses of the American WestBy Melvin C. Johnson$24.95 paperback$34.95 hardcover228 pages       Download Subscribe in Pocket Casts           

It's sad to say that some groups that believe in the Book of Mormon are notorious for the crimes they have committed.  In our final conversation with Steve Shields, we will discuss the Lafferty brothers, and Ervil Lebaron.  Both groups were involved in murder. https://youtu.be/U9lPnFXKI5M Steve: It's really hard to deal with some of those that are just so grossly offensive in what they do. A lot of people, especially Bob Crossfield's folks would rather I not talk about the Laffertys. But I say, well, I can't not [talk about them] because they exist or existed, and there was something going on. Bob Crossfield was a self-proclaimed prophet from Canada who eventually developed what they called the School of the Prophets and Bob himself issued more than 100 revelations. The Lafferty brothers, Ron and Dan got involved in Crossfield's School of the Prophets, but quickly took over what that was all about and turned it into something evil. Evil, maybe that's not objective, but when you receive or proclaim a revelation that says, "God tells me to kill this person and kill that person and kill that person..." They were a modern-day resurrection of Ervil LeBaron. Ervil was evil. Most of the family members that I know in the LeBaron clan would say the same thing. I don't know any of the Lafferty folks, but I do know Bob Crossfield's people. They were just devastated by how the Laffertys twisted everything that Bob Crossfield is all about and turned it into something so horrible. History is not always pretty. Thankfully there haven't been too many of those kinds of things happening in all of Latter-day Saint history, but every now and again, some of that stuff crops up and you have to deal with it the best way you can. Check out our conversation.  If you have missed any of our previous conversations with Steve, check out the links below. Steve Shields describes a few Mormon groups involved in murder. 240: Para-Church Mormon Groups (Shields) 239: Cutlerite Endowment, Female Priesthood, & House of Aaron(Shields) 238: Fundamentalists and Cutlerites (Shields) 227: Conspiracy Theories:  William Smith, Samuel Smith, James Strang(Shields) 226: Sidney's Unsung Role in Restoration (Shields) 225: Steve's Shields Own Divergent Path 224: Who Owns the Temple Lot? (Shields)

Not all groups in Steve Shields book should be considered denominations.  In our next conversation, we'll talk about some of these subgroups with official endorsement of the LDS Church, such as Affirmation and the Genesis Group.  https://youtu.be/CmDpx5LlEac Steve:  Affirmation is a para-church organization. It provides a church-oriented fellowship for LGBTQ people who are not often welcomed in the standard ward and most of them are LDS folks in Affirmation. But, they're providing a ministry that is, dare I say it? Tangential to the LDS Church. So, I consider that an expression. GT:  Would it be like the Genesis Group? Steve: Genesis Group would have been a very similar kind of a group. Genesis had the full support of the church where Affirmation does not. So, there's a little difference there. Maybe that's a big difference, actually. Certainly, with the LDS Church's policy of a couple of years ago about LGBTQ people, and their children being able to be baptized [that] would take them even one step further the other direction, away from seeing Affirmation [as a good thing] GT:  Whereas the Genesis [Group] was [fully supported by the church], right? Steve: Yeah, they were. Right. GT:  Just for people who may not know what Genesis Group is, I know we do. But can you describe Genesis Group? Steve:  I probably don't know very much about it. It was before blacks were allowed to be ordained and it was a ministry group for black LDS Church members, their families and friends. They could be members of the church and it was a support. It was supported by the church, mostly here in the Salt Lake area, I think. Darius Gray, who is well-known in Mormon thought circles, was one of the key people, as I remember. GT:  Yeah, he was one of the original counselors and he went on to become President later. He's a great guy. Steve:  So that was an important ministry in the era of civil rights upset in the United States. Ultimately then in 1978, when full ordination was finally permitted for all. Find out more about these and other groups!  Check out our conversation… Steve Shields describes para-church Mormon groups. What is that? Check out our other conversations with Steve! 239: Cutlerite Endowment, Female Priesthood, & House of Aaron (Shields) 238: Fundamentalists and Cutlerites (Shields) 227: Conspiracy Theories:  William Smith, Samuel Smith, James Strang(Shields) 226: Sidney's Unsung Role in Restoration (Shields) 225: Steve's Shields Own Divergent Path 224: Who Owns the Temple Lot? (Shields)

The LDS Church recently made changes to their temple endowment ceremony.  Rumor has it that the Cutlerite endowment has changed very little since the death of Joseph Smith.  We'll continue our discussion about Cutlerite temple practices with Steve Shields. It appears they believe women hold priesthood in their temple ordinances! https://youtu.be/8nA9mj_bp3s Steve: So, that building is, in all intents and purposes, it's a temple and it would resemble the Kirtland Temple model except Kirtland had no font. But, the upstairs room for the priesthood on the second floor, they weren't necessarily doing rituals there, but they did some washings and anointings upstairs on the third floor in the attic level. And so, on the second floor of the Cutlerite buildings in Minnesota and Independence, that's dedicated as a holy place. They call it the upper room work. They don't use the term endowment. They do know what that means because we've talked about it with them. But, I do know. They've told me this, that women are ordained as high priestesses in the celestial church, not in the outer church, not in the public church. They have no priesthood in the public church. GT: Oh, so women have a temple priesthood, but not an Ecclesiastical priesthood. Steve: Exactly. Yeah, that's right. That's the extent of my knowledge about that. A few years ago when… GT:  That's interesting, Michael Quinn, in my current interview, just kind of said the LDS have the same thing. Jonathan Stapley said, "Well, we don't want to call it priesthood." But Quinn wasn't nearly as careful on that. Steve: Yeah. Well, I'm in the Quinn camp on that issue. We'll also discuss a break off from the RLDS Church called the House of Aaron. Steve:  The House of Aaron is based at Eskdale, Utah. And they used to be called the Aaronic Order or the Order of Aaron. Morris Glendening was the founder, promoter of that. In the recent 10 or 12 years, they've been having lots of conversation with Fred Larsen and the Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. John Conrad, who is the leader of the House of Aaron, his father was Bob Conrad, who was the chief high priest successor to Morris Glendening as chief high priest. John has gone out to Independence many times with folks their church. They've shifted a lot since Glendening's times in the '40's. They always said they were not Mormons and yet all of their members had been Mormons. Have you heard of the House of Aaron before?  Check out our conversation…. Steve Shields says Cutlerites have female priesthood, and we talk about House of Aaron in Eskdale, Utah Don't forget out other conversations with Steve! 238: Fundamentalists and Cutlerites (Shields) 227: Conspiracy Theories:  William Smith, Samuel Smith, James Strang(Shields) 226: Sidney's Unsung Role in Restoration (Shields) 225: Steve's Shields Own Divergent Path 224: Who Owns the Temple Lot? (Shields)

In this episode, Steve Shields and I discuss some of the larger and smaller Mormon groups: fundamentalists and Cutlerites. Many of these fundamentalists practice polygamy. https://youtu.be/N4q_namvQ5g Steve:  The FLDS has 8,000 to 10,000. The Apostolic United Brethren and has 8,000 to 10,000, somewhere in that range. Those are the two largest organized groups, organized structural institutions. I've heard numbers of 50 or 60,000 fundamentalist Mormons all told. There's either some smaller, like the Centennial Park--I don't want to call them a group because the Centennial Park priesthood affiliation, maybe as a way to talk about those. You've got Naylor and Nielsen. You've got the guy up in British Columbia, Winston Blackmore. He's actually incorporated as the Church of Jesus Christ (Original Doctrine). That's their corporate filing in Canada. He's got 500 or so. Nielson and Naylor and Blackmore have been kind of doing some, they've not merged per se, but some cross affiliation because Nielsen and Naylor's problem with the Jeffs family was very similar with Winston's. So frankly, in all of the fundamentalist Mormons, there's very little doctrinal difference, if any at all. It has to do with priesthood authority. Who has the legitimate line? GT: I talked with Anne Wilde and one things that she said was really the largest group are what she would call independent or unaffiliated. Steve: That's right. Most of them are unaffiliated but they do fellowship with each other. You've got a large following: Fred Collier, Tom Green and others who believe in what they called the patriarchal order. Every father is a patriarch over his own family and has full authority to ordain his children, the male children. We'll also discuss the only other Mormon group that has an endowment ceremony in the temple.  They are sometimes referred to as the Cutlerites, named after Alpheus Cutler. Steve: Alpheus Cutler's church has always been small, and they do not proselytize. They don't believe in that. Alpheus Cutler is said to have been given a revelation that in the last days there will only be two and from that small branch, God will redeem Zion. So, they don't worry too much about that. They're getting older. GT: They're the ones who still have a temple ceremony. Is that right? Steve: Yes, they do. The upper room work is conducted in their building in Independence. I'll say on a regular basis. That doesn't mean every day or every week necessarily. I don't know any more about it than that. Nobody does except them and I respect that. I'm very curious, of course. How big are they?  Check out our conversation…. Steve Shields discusses Mormon polygamists and Cutlerites, the only other Mormon group with a temple endowment ceremony. Check out our other conversations with Steve! 227: Conspiracy Theories:  William Smith, Samuel Smith, James Strang(Shields) 226: Sidney's Unsung Role in Restoration (Shields) 225: Steve's Shields Own Divergent Path 224: Who Owns the Temple Lot? (Shields)

Following the martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith, brother Samuel died within a month.  Was Samuel poisoned? https://youtu.be/M8w5-Zohz6s Steve:  You know, conspiracy theorists. Okay, fine. Was he poisoned deliberately? Who knows? There's no way to know. The typical story had been that he, was [ill with] was it pneumonia or cholera or, I can't remember what. In those days, in the Midwest, in the summer months, you had malaria, you had typhus, you had cholera. I mean, that stuff was rampant. Their food sanitation was different from what we would have today. It could've been any number of things, I think. There's no way to ever know for sure now, even if we were to exhume his remains, there's not enough left to do any of that kind of study, probably. Was he poisoned deliberately by somebody? Well, it could be, but why? Maybe I have a different view of Brigham young and his colleagues than some, I'm not willing to just write Brigham Young off and call him an evil, you know, usurper. Were people out to kill the other prophet's brother William? GT:  Back to William Smith. So he came to Nauvoo [in] September of 1844. Steve:   By the end of August, early September, he was back in Nauvoo, I'm pretty sure. GT:  And Brigham ordained him as patriarch. Steve: He was called as patriarch and I presume they ordained him. I don't know, because I'm not sure that all that ritual stuff had really been solidified at that early time. I don't know. Today, of course we would always do that. Did they need to? He was already an apostle. Maybe he just needed to be designated that. I don't know. What about James Strang? Steve:  Within weeks of affiliating, William Smith was disaffiliated, and that was before Strang ever got involved, ever publicly announced polygamy. I'm not sure when he [William] got involved in it. Somebody knows those dates, I just can't remember them. William Smith was there long enough to write this hymn that was published in Strang's paper at Voree, which is near Burlington, Wisconsin. Actually, it's now part of the city limits, but it [the hymn] was an ode to Voree, and it has something like 15 verses. Check out our conversation… Here's the first 3 parts with Steve Shields! 226: Sidney's Unsung Role in Restoration (Shields) 225: Steve's Shields Own Divergent Path 224: Who Owns the Temple Lot? (Shields)

Historian Steve Shields tells us that Sidney's unsung role in the early Church was larger than LDS or RLDS historians have acknowledged.  When Sidney joined with Joseph, Sidney's followers overwhelmed the small group of Smith followers.  Should it be called the Smith-Ridgon movement? https://youtu.be/EkueRv8mo90 Steve:      But, eventually, the Rigdon followers outnumber the Smith followers five or six to one. And so, I argue it really ought to be called the Smith-Rigdon Movement rather than the Latter-day Saint movement. Because in the beginning the word "Latter-day Saint" wasn't even there, and it was Rigdon who came up with that. GT:  Oh, it was? Steve: Oh yeah. GT:  Oh really? Steve: [In] 1834 Rigdon announces that the church will now be called the Church of the Latter-day Saints. GT:  I knew that they changed the name, but I didn't know Rigdon was behind it. Steve: Oh yeah. Who else were highly influenced by Rigdon?  Do you think Sidney's role has been downplayed in the modern LDS and RLDS Churches?  Check out our conversation…. Don't forget to check out our other conversations with Steve! 225: Steve's Shields Own Divergent Path 224: Who Owns the Temple Lot?

Steven Shields has been studying various Mormon schismatic groups since he was in Seminary in the 1970s.  We'll get acquainted with him in this first episode, and learn more about his background, and why he got so interested in our Mormon cousins.  What does he know about the temple lot?  There are several sections in the Doctrine & Covenants where Joseph Smith received revelations on a temple in Missouri.  That temple was never built.  Who owns the original temple lot on Independence, Missouri?  It turns out some of our Mormon cousins own it. https://youtu.be/_k1zRJiB_V4 Steve: The Hedrickites is a name that people use. I don't like to use -ites or schism or break off or offshoot or splinter. I've tried to avoid all of that language in my new addition because I don't think it's helpful. All that stuff started out as pejorative, and in some ways it's still used as a pejorative. And so I thought, let's try and get away from that, you know? We don't say Pope-ites or Luther-ites or those kinds of things. So maybe we can get out of that mode in the Latter Day saint movement, I don't know. GT: There's too many -ites in the Book of Mormon. Steve:  That's where it all probably comes from. I guess. I'll let you keep Israelites. But yeah, to be honest, my paper on the earliest church was an anti-RLDS apologetic and my seminary teachers loved it. We'll talk more about how Steve go interested in our Mormon cousins.  Find out our next conversation…. This is the Temple Lot Church, owned by the Hedrickites. If you're interested in other groups, here's an interview with Jim Vun Cannon, Counselor in the Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 067: What are Remnant Church Views on Temple Worship? (Vun Cannon) 066: Women Will Not Hold Priesthood! (Vun Cannon) 065: Joseph was a Monogamist! (Vun Cannon) 064: What's the Order of Enoch?  Consecration in Modern World(Vun Cannon) 063: Jim Tackles DNA & Book of Mormon (Vun Cannon) 062: 18 Revelations to Gather to Missouri!  Remnant Church Scriptures (Vun Cannon) 061: What's the RLDS Perspective on Succession Crisis? (Vun Cannon) 060: From Convert to First Presidency in 5 years!  (Vun Cannon) 059: Found!  A Literal Descendant of Aaron! (Vun Cannon)

On this episode, we continue rooting around in the muck of the underbelly of Nauvoo Mormonism. We discuss the primary catalyst that caused Bennett to be so opposed to Joseph Smith. With rampant rumors of adultery, Crazy Willey Smith pens “The Truant Husband” with a pleasant little PSA to all the “midnight watchers” in Nauvoo. We discuss the role of women’s organizations and the social context in which they rose by examining Emma’s claims that “Benevolence” societies were corrupt. Then we get into the seedy and vague history of Nauvoo brothels and temperance. Links: We are Engaged as a Band of Sister by Ruth Alexander https://www.jstor.org/stable/1901529?seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents Ladies Bountiful by Keith Medler https://www.jstor.org/stable/23162952?seq=6#metadata_info_tab_contents Relief Society Minute Book http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/nauvoo-relief-society-minute-book/1#full-transcript Times & Season November 1841 https://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/digital/collection/NCMP1820-1846/id/9118 FairMormon Bennett’s Brothel https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Polygamy_book/John_C._Bennett/Brothel_at_Nauvoo The Wasp edited by William Smith https://archive.org/stream/TheWasp18421843/The_Wasp_1842-1843#page/n23 Temple Lot depositions https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=qi5OAAAAYAAJ&hl=en&pg=GBS.PA192 The Saintly Scoundrel Bennett Timeline http://www.salamandersociety.com/museum/bennett/ Joseph H. Jackson expose 1844 http://www.olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1840s/1844Jack.htm Show links: Website http://nakedmormonismpodcast.com Twitter @NakedMormonism Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Naked-Mormonism/370003839816311 Patreon http://patreon.com/nakedmormonism Music by Jason Comeau http://aloststateofmind.com/ Show Artwork http://weirdmormonshit.com/ Legal Counsel http://patorrez.com/

  The Interview: In mid-July 1831, Joseph Smith and a few Mormon missionaries visited Independence, Missouri. After arriving, the Prophet received a revelation designating Independence as the "center place" of the future city of Zion or the New Jerusalem. On Wednesday, August 3, 1831, Joseph and several associates dedicated a special plot of land “upon a lot not far from the court-house” for a future temple. This wasn’t to be just any temple, but the Millennial Temple to which Jesus would return. Before the Saints could construct a House of the Lord, they were driven north in 1833 and then five years later, they were chased out of the entire state leaving behind their dreams of Zion and temple-building. But as the main body of Saints moved to Nauvoo and then to the West, what happened to the expectations of their Independence temple? Join Jean Addams as he explains that as Brigham Young and his followers headed to the Rocky Mountains, the property was sold by the family of LDS Church Bishop Edward Partridge who had passed away. At that point, the Utah Church had lost any claim to the property. In the 1850s, Granville Hedrick, who led three separate restoration branches located in North Central Illinois, received a revelation instructing him and his followers to relocate to Jackson County. In 1867, they started acquiring the lots that comprised the spot where Joseph Smith had dedicated the site for the temple. Hedrick then believed that a temple would be built as early as the following decade. Yet, no temple structure was ever constructed. The Independence temple lot was the center of controversy in the early 1890s as the RLDS church sued the owners of the temple lot, the church established by Hendrick, the Church of Christ (Temple Lot). The RLDS leaders claimed ownership of the temple lot property outright positioning themselves as the true successor of that church. Polygamy became a focal point of the litigation since the RLDS did not permit plurality, but many Nauvoo church members reported Joseph Smith taught it as restored principle and practice. Jean Addams explains the outcome of that conflict and drama. In 1900, representatives of the Church of Christ (Temple Lot) visited Salt Lake City and proposed collaborating with the LDS leadership to build a temple. LDS leaders declined, but at that time they became interested in any upcoming opportunities to acquire any part of the original 63 acres. In 1904, Utah leaders purchased a 20-acre parcel of the land dedicated in 1831. Jean Addams identifies the various owners today and outlines the prophecies concerning this unique temple building site in Restoration history. About the Author: R. Jean Addams is a lifetime Mormon history enthusiast and independent historian. He and his wife Liz reside in Woodinville, Washington. He is the author of “Reclaiming the Temple Lot in the Center Place of Zion,” “‘Upon a Lot . . . Not Far from the Courthouse’: A Photographic History of the Temple Lot in Independence, Jackson County, Missouri,”  “A Contest for ‘Sacred Space,” “Early sociological Issues Confronted by the Church of Christ (Temple Lot): African Americans, Native Americans, and Women,” and several other articles. Addams’ first book Upon the Temple Lot: The Church of Christ’s Quest to Build the House of the Lord, was published in late 2011. More recently, his interest has shifted to the Redemption of Zion. Articles on this subject include: “The Establishment and Redemption of Zion” and “The Bullion, Beck, & Champion Mining Company and the Redemption of Zion.” Addams is the past-president of the John Whitmer Historical Association. His interests, besides researching and writing, include family, skiing, and fishing.

In mid-July 1831, Joseph Smith and a few Mormon missionaries visited Independence, Missouri. After arriving, the Prophet received a revelation designating Independence as the "center place" of the future city of Zion or the New Jerusalem. On Wednesday, August 3, 1831, Joseph and several associates dedicated a special plot of land “upon a lot not far from the court-house” for a future temple. This wasn’t to be just any temple, but the Millennial Temple to which Jesus would return. Before the Saints could construct a House of the Lord, they were driven north in 1833 and then five years later, they were chased out of the entire state leaving behind their dreams of Zion and temple-building. But as the main body of Saints moved to Nauvoo and then to the West, what happened to the expectations of their Independence temple? Join Jean Addams as he explains that as Brigham Young and his followers headed to the Rocky Mountains, the property was sold by the family of LDS Church Bishop Edward Partridge who had passed away. At that point, the Utah Church had lost any claim to the property. In the 1850s, Granville Hedrick, who led three separate restoration branches located in North Central Illinois, received a revelation instructing him and his followers to relocate to Jackson County. In 1867, they started acquiring the lots that comprised the spot where Joseph Smith had dedicated the site for the temple. Hedrick then believed that a temple would be built as early as the following decade. Yet, no temple structure was ever constructed. The Independence temple lot was the center of controversy in the early 1890s as the RLDS church sued the owners of the temple lot, the church established by Hendrick, the Church of Christ (Temple Lot). The RLDS leaders claimed ownership of the temple lot property outright positioning themselves as the true successor of that church. Polygamy became a focal point of the litigation since the RLDS did not permit plurality, but many Nauvoo church members reported Joseph Smith taught it as a restored principle and practice. Jean Addams explains the outcome of that conflict and drama. In 1900, representatives of the Church of Christ (Temple Lot) visited Salt Lake City and proposed collaborating with the LDS leadership to build a temple. LDS leaders declined, but at that time they became interested in any upcoming opportunities to acquire any part of the original 63 acres. In 1904, Utah leaders purchased a 20-acre parcel of the land dedicated in 1831. Jean Addams identifies the various owners today and outlines the prophecies concerning this unique temple building site in Restoration history. About the Author: R. Jean Addams is a lifetime Mormon history enthusiast and independent historian. He and his wife Liz reside in Woodinville, Washington. He is the author of “Reclaiming the Temple Lot in the Center Place of Zion,” “‘Upon a Lot . . . Not Far from the Courthouse’: A Photographic History of the Temple Lot in Independence, Jackson County, Missouri,”  “A Contest for ‘Sacred Space,” “Early sociological Issues Confronted by the Church of Christ (Temple Lot): African Americans, Native Americans, and Women,” and several other articles. Addams’ first book Upon the Temple Lot: The Church of Christ’s Quest to Build the House of the Lord, was published in late 2011. More recently, his interest has shifted to the Redemption of Zion. Articles on this subject include: “The Establishment and Redemption of Zion” and “The Bullion, Beck, & Champion Mining Company and the Redemption of Zion.” Addams is the past-president of the John Whitmer Historical Association. His interests, besides researching and writing, include family, skiing, and fishing. Upon the Temple Lot: the Church of Christ's Quest to Build the House of the Lord

Today we discuss at length the Temple Lot Case.  Why the RLDS (Community of Christ) and Hedrickite (Church of Christ) branches were bickering and fighting, why the LDS branch got involved, How the case got resolved, and most important what we learn about Mormonism from those who testified.  Fake Deeds, Cease and Desist Orders, Dodged Questions, […] The post 278: Temple Lot, Hedrickites, RLDS, and Carnal Intercourse appeared first on Mormon Discussion by Bill Reel.

The Temple Lot Case is one of the most important sources for polygamy documents.  The RLDS Church wanted ownership of the temple lot in Independence, Missouri but another group, sometimes known as the Temple Lot Church owned the property.  The LDS Church assisted assisted the Temple Lot Church and had women testify about their polygamist relationships with Joseph Smith in order to counteract the RLDS claims that they were the true successors to Joseph Smith.  Dr. Brian Hales describes this important court testimony.  This is a continuation of our previous conversation about young bride Helen Mar Kimball, as Brian discusses her relation to the Temple Lot case. If we didn't have the RLDS Church saying Joseph wasn't a polygamist, we wouldn't have the 1869 affidavits, we wouldn't have the 1877 collection by Andrew Jensen, and we wouldn't have the additional information from the Temple Lot Case.  Together those three are 75% of what we know, and it's scary for researchers on polygamy to think about what we would know about Nauvoo polygamy if the RLDS Church had not taken the stance that they did.  It's really scary.  You'd have John C. Bennett.  You'd have William Law, and you would not know even a fraction of what we think we know about it today. Check out our conversation… Don't forget to check out our previous episodes on Fanny Alger, as well as parts 1–7 of our conversations with Brian. https://youtu.be/IDP7Ybvk1cw   Our New Contest! Don't forget to sign up for a contest to win a free book!  You can sign up here!  It is the Parallel Doctrine & Covenants that contains the 1832, 1833, and 1835 Doctrine & Covenants side by side so you can see the changes.  When it was originally published, it was about $50, but the book is now out of print.  Curt Bench was actually the one who wrote the introduction to this book.  It's a fairly recent book, but if you find it on Amazon now, check this out.  It's $175.  On Abebooks it's even higher–$260!  This book is a valuable book and has become a collector's item, especially for historians or those seriously interested in Mormon history. Here's what you need to do for a chance to win.  Just go to https://gospeltangents.com/newsletter .  In there, enter your email address and your name, and we will simply put you in a contest for a drawing on Pioneer Day, July 24th, 2017. https://gospeltangents.com/shop/transcripts/polygamy-temple-lot-case/  

Viva la priesthood! Women not invited. Basically an influx of new members are increasing the need for middle management. Additionally, here are some specific revelations included that didn't come true or are contradictory. 1. The new city of Zion will be built in the Temple Lot. 2. It will happen in this generation (the 1832 generation). 3. No one will pollute Jackson County. Drink count – 5, or a little less than one beer Read along with us at http://joelakuhn.com/dc-compare/ Support the show by becoming a Patron over at Patreon.com/MyBookofMormonPodcast Drop me a line at comments@mybookofmormonpodcast.com Podcastriarchal blessing: Mindy M Podcastriarchal music is Our Happy Life by Maps and Transit, edited for length

Cass and Bob interview Rebecca Murphy. Rebecca is a 46 year old white cisgender heterosexual female, married for 28 years and childfree by choice. She was raised in an off-shoot of Mormonism called Temple Lot. In college she left that faith but was swept up into the International Church of Christ, which under the surface of their inspirational Sunday services was a domineering pyramid scheme with all the mind controlling influences of a cult. Before our talk with Rebecca, Cass has a brief conversation with Harry Flook, a 21 year old British photographer and documentarian visiting the states through former guest Gayle Jordan and the Recovering From Religion organization to chronicle how people find a sense of community after losing their faith and leaving the church. If you’ve been following the last several episodes, you will have noticed that I am on a journey that associate with the stage of life in which I find myself, which I’ll describe as mid-life, post-religious, and post-parent. There seems to be a natural rite of passage happening that is not unlike puberty, where it is going to happen whether you like it or not. In the absence of meaning, formerly found in the role of being a parent and/or seeing one’s self within a religious narrative or simply the realization that one has fewer years left to live than one has lived thus far, some realizations begin to enter one’s mind that can serve as a mirror that exposes immaturity in one’s character (at best) or seem pathological at worst. It turns out (at least for me) that a strong sense of self has been kept at bay by the busying narratives in which my life has been immersed, and as the curtain closes on them (my role as a parent, for example, or my role as child of god destined to live eternally in heaven), and that suppressed identity is coming unchained and emerging from the dungeon with a vengeance. But, it doesn’t know how to behave or even walk and is blinded by the sun and atrophied by immobility so nothing about this is homecoming is going to be pretty. In fact, it can arouse deep anxieties, even panic, and hopelessness that can lead to suicidal thoughts. You will hurt and be hurt by those nearest to you. Especially if they’re going through the same thing at the same time. Many marriages are ended by this transition. But I found my hope in a psychological concept founded by Carl Jung and Murray Bowen called “differentiation.” Differentiation of self is one's ability to separate one's own intellectual and emotional functioning from that of one’s family and/or lover. Individuals with "low differentiation" are more likely to become emotionally fused with others—particularly family or lovers. They’re like Siamese twins attached at the hip. And this attachment, that is largely dependent and codendent, can last for years until this awakening happens and you want to go your own way. Any attempt to do so will be taken personally by the person you are fused with. You want to differentiate yourself from them and they say, “why are you doing this to me?” When in fact, you are doing nothing TO them, they are just leaning on you so hard that they hit the floor when you move. People with "low differentiation" depend on others' approval and acceptance. They either conform themselves to others in order to please them, or they attempt to force others to conform to themselves. They are thus more vulnerable to stress and less adaptive to life changes. You may have heard of a healthy H-shaped relationship, where two stand-alone, vertical lines are in relationship, contrasted with an unhealthy A-shape relationship where those lines are leaning on each other. Those with generally higher levels of "self differentiation" recognize that they need others, but they depend less on others' acceptance and approval. They do not merely adopt the attitude of those around them but acquire and maintain their principles thoughtfully. These principles, morals, and ethics help them resist lapsing into emotional reactivity and impulsive thoughts and actions. Thus, despite conflict, criticism, and even rejection, those with greater capacity to "self differentiate" can stay calm and rationally "clear-headed" enough to carefully assess facts, less clouded by emotion. What they decide and say matches what they do. Even when they act in the best interests of a group, they choose thoughtfully, not because they are caving in to group-think. They're more objective observers, more capable of calmness under relationship and task pressures. Confident in their own thinking, they can either support another's viewpoints without becoming wishy-washy; or, they can reject another's opinions without becoming hostile with them, or passively disconnected from them. The ideal outcome here is when two people (beit father and son, or siblings, or husband and wife) both move from an A shape to an H shape, no one falls to the ground. However, if one person is unwilling or unable to do the work—the introspection, the therapy, the communication, the research—all of which are helpful in understanding what the fuck is happening, then they are most certainly going to crash when the other person differentiates. At that point, they have the option to stay on the floor crying, blaming and demonizing the other person…for the rest of their lives, but in so doing, they miss out on this wonderful evolutionary opportunity to grow up and personally develop, and secondly, they destroy a valuable relationship to their own heart. I see this as a key development for those of us who have graduated from religious faith. When we discover that self-debasing doctrines have left us a depleted shell or ghost-like version of our true selves, we have to find them and meet them, maybe for the first time. We have to get to know them, we have to ask them questions, we have to discover what they like and dislike because they’ve been asked. This is the first step of differentiation. The second is learning how to self-soothe and control our own anxieties. Before, we looked to God or others to comfort us. The third is learning to manage our reactivity, or what Dr. David Schnarch calls, “grounded responding.” Religions remove responsibility from people and when they get our from under that tyranny, they find that they’re ability to respond to circumstances and people is undeveloped. They either over-respond in aggression and thoughtless comments, or under-respond in passive aggression, apathy and dis-attachment.   The fourth and last element of differentiation is endurance. Stay in the room with difference. Tolerate some discomfort for the sake of personal growth and the healing of relationships. Toughen up. Grow a pair. Start giving yourself and your loved ones the benefit of the doubt. Don’t be so quick to assume the worst in them. Bounce back after defeat or failure. Ultimately, you know what this is: this is saying yes to what is. This rite of passage is a gift and will reap tremendous benefits in your life and relationships. Like giving birth, if you can survive the pain of transition and the stretching, you will reap a new life. No-sayers want to pretend it’s not happening or that there’s no work to be done here. They may be quick to thrown in the towel or say “there was no hope for that relationship anyway,” which actually may be true, but please, only make that call after exhaustive effort on your part. Know this: there’s nothing wrong with you if you’re going through this. Don’t blame or shame yourself or anyone else. Tenderly welcome your formerly enslaved self into the 21st century, into freedom, and start looking for ways for that beautiful human being to express their self. Teach them they can self-comfort, they can act from their core and not react from fear, and that they have what it takes to finish strong.  Don’t forget: Coming up: Saturday, March 18th the Nashville Nones Convention. it’s an all day event to be held at Unity Church in Nashville tickets are $20 at the door. More info at nashvillenones.com and there’s a link in the show notes.  5 weeks later is ReasonCon in Hickory NC, the weekend of April 21st.  more info is available at reasonnc.com. We taped the conversation with Rebecca Murphy on February 5th, 2017, and the interview with Harry Flook on March 5th. We interview people you don’t know, about a subject no one wants to talk about. We hope to encourage people in the process of deconstructing their faith and help curb the loneliness that accompanies it. We think the world is a better place when more people live by sight, not by faith. Please subscribe to our podcast, and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. Our show is available on most podcast platforms.  Also, you can support us monetarily in two easy ways: you can pledge one dollar per episode through Patreon; that’s www.patreon.com/eapodcast, or leave a lump-sum donation through PayPal at our website, www.everyonesagnostic.com. The smallest contribution is greatly appreciated. Credits: "Towering Mountain of Ignorance" intro by Hank Green https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3v3S82TuxU Intro bumper "Never Know" by Jack Johnson The segue music is on this episode was created by “The Barry Orchestra” found at barryorchestra.bandcamp.com Thanks for listening and be a yes-sayer to what is. Differentiation  https://nashvillenones.com/ http://reasonnc.com/ harryflook.com