After the JAG Corps: Navigating Your Career Progression

In this episode, Tom Caruso takes us through his career progression after leaving active duty with the Navy. Leveraging Skillbridge on a part-time basis, he returned to clerk for a judge who was a mentor and for whom he previously worked while in law school to a clerkship with a Federal judge to private practice and now as Chief Legal Officer and Corporation Secretary.

In this episode, we learn about Samantha Sliney's career progression from active duty Air Force to serving as an advocate with the Defense-State Liaison Office, which exists to advocate for military personnel and their families at the State level. Samantha is on LinkedIn and information about the Defense-State Liaison Office is available on the Military One Source web site.

Michael Bahar is a partner With Eversheds Sutherland and is based out of its Washington,DC, office and currently serves in the U.S. Navy Reserve.

In this episode, we hear from Steven Arango, who recently went from serving as a judge advocate in the U.S. Marine Corps to associate attorney at Jenner and Block.

This week, I had the honor of talking to Geoff and Gary Corn to talk about their career progression from Army judge advocates to their respective positions at law schools. The cover art for this podcast is a picture of Geoff and a colleague pinning on Gary's lieutenant bars when he was commissioned.

In this episode, Peter Dutton explains how curiosity has taken him from aviation to the JAG Corps to a post-military career as an academic, obtaining his Ph.D and now becoming a member of the Yale Law School Faculty.

“When you come to a fork in the road, take it.” - Yogi BerraIn this episode, we hear from retired Army JAG, Trey Courie, who elected to participate in the deferred resignation program.

In this episode, we listen to Professor James Kraska, retired Navy JAG and current Charles H. Stockton Chair of International Maritime Law and Department Head, Stockton Center for International Law, U.S. Naval War College, talk about his motivation for joining the Navy and his unusual and continuing career progression that has remained center on international security law.

A 1930s Kansas Chamber of Commerce ad claimed, "If there's anything better than life--it's life in Kansas." This week, Nathan Banks proves that! Deciding to retire from Fort Leavenworth, Nate was determined to remain in Kansas because of his kids. He then identified possible jobs and landed one through his ever-expanding network. Nate is on LinkedIn

A lot of factors go into a decision of which job to take after leaving the military. Oftentimes, it may leaving a place that you like. That is the situation that confronted Dan Maurer. At least until it did not.

This week, I catch up with Johnathan Rudy who successfully leveraged his military cyber law practice into civilian gigs, including with Geico where he now works. In this episode he recounts how his own lack of knowledge resulted in both a boot camp and Officer Candidate School experiences, and his journey from active duty Marine to working in the corporate world. John is on LinkedIn.

In this episode, I talk to recently retired United States Marine Colonel John Hackel, who is held in high regard by so many. John began his military career two weeks after graduating from high school as a plebe at the United States Naval Academy and 34 years later, had to chart a new course with his post-military career. As you will hear, John took his time in discerning his way-ahead. You can find John on LinkedIn.

In this episode, Ed White takes us through his decision to retire in 2014, the different post-military legal careers he considered, how he landed at the Department of Justice litigating immigration and national security cases, and his eventual retirement to Spain, where he now lives. Ed is on LinkedIn. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

In this episode, I talk to recently retired Navy Captain Mark Holley who retired from the JAG Corps in October 2024 and will soon begin his second career as a Navy OGC attorney in San Diego, CA. However, Mark is not just a lawyer and while he would not consider himself a renaissance man, that he has added the title of playwright to resume places him closer to that category than me. Mark talks about how he got into theater, first as an adult stagehand for his children, to some minor acting, and now to writing a script. Mark is on LinkedIn. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

This week, former Navy JAG, Paul Wagoner and I discuss his career progression from the armed services to in-house counsel to his current role as an Executive Coach and Resume specialist focusing on in house counsel through his business, Pathless Coaching. We then focus on the latter endeavors , including the coaching Paul provided to me when I was seeking my first post-Navy legal job. Paul is on LinkedIn. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

If you just read the headline for this episode and are now coming back to read this description, you probably thought we were talking about a JAG turned lawyer in a foreign court system. Not here. This weekend, we meet Jill Thomas, an Air Force Reserve Officer who makes her home in Portugal and has since taken up the sport of pickleball. This week's episode should appeal to anyone who has thought about moving to another country. Jill can be found on LinkedIn. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

I am not sure of too many people who, with orders in hand to Hawaii, would instead live active duty to accept a position with a civil rights non-profit law firm. Yet, that is exactly what today's guest did. Mike Berry, who continues to serve in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve, spent 11 years at the First Liberty Institute handling First Amendment cases, including that of the kneeling football coach, Joe Kennedy. Earlier this year, Mike became the executive director of the litigation division of the America First Policy Institute. He is on LinkedIn. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

“Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” - Ferris Bueller By all accounts, Rob Monahan was on glideslope to a smooth transition. He was days away from signing on with a law firm after his retirement for the Navy the following year when an offer to go work as civilian staffer at the Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces came about. Not only did he have to decide fast, but he then had to ask the Navy to allow him to leave much sooner than later as well complete all of his out-processing. (You can connect with Rob on LinkedIn.) --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

In this episode, we learn about the important work Air Force veteran Abhishek Kambli is doing in preserving states' rights in our federal system. From student loan forgiveness to Title IX issues, this former JAG is involved in some of the biggest cases over the past several years. Abhi is on LinkedIn. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

In this episode, I talk to Brian Wilson whose departure from the Navy was prompted by an offer that was just too good to pass up. Known throughout the Corps for his kindness, humbleness, intelligence, and hid dedication to the mission, we all thought Brian would stay until forced out. His first stint out of the Navy lasted 14 years, allowing him to combine many of the roles and skills he developed while on active duty. Just recently, Brian moved to the Institute for Security Governance in Monterey, CA. Brian is on LinkedIn. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

In today's podcast, we hear about Aaron Jackson's career progression from the Air Force to becoming a partner at Dunlap Bennett & Ludwig, a Washington, D.C. law firm. All without leaving Northwest Florida. His account is yet another testament to the power of an individual's network and the important role that they play in making the jump from the military. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

Rodrigo Caruco is not your typical veteran. From his birthplace to his 11 years on active duty to establishing his own firm, he is not a man who takes the conventional or easy approach, but does what he believes is the right thing to do. In this episode, Rodrigo and I talk about his time in the Air Force JAG Corps, including his stint as a Military Commissions defense attorney, to establishing his own worldwide practice in central Florida. Rodrigo is on LinkedIn. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

Dean Korsak officially retired from the United States Air Force on August 1, 2024. Like many veterans, he started working on terminal leave as the General Counsel and Corporate Secretary for the Griffiss Institute, but is also an entrepreneur. For several years, Dean has been working to launch his own business, CAPY News, which will use AI trained on the Federal Rules of Evidence and intelligence analytics standards to authenticate "news" in an attempt to combat misinformation and disinformation. Dean can be found on LinkedIn. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

I had the great privilege of serving with Tim at GTMO. As my deputy, Tim ran the office, putting out fires, taking care and holding people accountable, and doing the other thankless tasks. But he was much more than that. He was a sounding board, an advisor, a fellow street hockey player, and a friend, not only to me, but my entire family. Tim has spent his legal career helping people, both in and out of the military. He continues that work as Director and Clinical Assistant Professor, Mason Veterans and Servicemembers Legal Clinic (M-VETS) at George Mason University School of Law. Tim's LinkedIn profile can be viewed at https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothy-macarthur-9b353282/. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

On July 2nd, I had the opportunity to reconnect with retired Commander Meredith Werner, who I had the privilege of meeting over 10 years ago. As you will hear, Meredith loves a good challenge, including retiring from the service while stationed overseas with NATO. Meredith takes us through the peaks and valleys of her career progression from military service to her current job as a professional staffer supporting the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee. Meredith's LinkedIn Profile can be viewed at https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredith-werner/. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

This week, Pat McGrath reminds us of the important role our significant others play in our transition to a post-military career. In his case, it came from his wife who would spend time looking at jobs on USAJOBS. We also talk about the things that he found helpful during his journey and life working at the Federal Communications Commission. Pat's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-m-mcgrath --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

Most judge advocates begin their military legal careers immediately after law school or they transition to the JAG Corps via their respective service's funded legal education program. Today, however, we hear from an attorney who was earning his stripes at a big law firm in Pittsburgh, but, having grown up the son of an Army colonel, felt an obligation to serve. Brian spent four years in the U.S. Marine Corps before returning to private practice. From this vantage point, he shares his journey and offers insights to transitioning judge advocates. Brian's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-kluckman-012777107/. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

Mark Overberg spent 22 years in the Army and after a brief tenure with the Small Business Administration, returned as a civilian working with U.S. Army Retirement Services, the last 8+ years as its director. In today's episode, we talk about getting ready to leave the service, the things about which one should be thinking, and the resources available, including those at www.soldierforlife.army.mil/retirement. Mark's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-overberg/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

Catharine Parnell embodies all the attributes that makes a good JAG: a willingness to learn new areas of the law and then master them. The irony is that serving in the Army was not in her plans, but driven by other factors. She has continued this carpe diem attitude after leaving the military, which has led to her current position as a general counsel of a satellite technology company. Catharine is also a prolific writer about career progression issues on LinkedIn. You can find her profile at https://www.linkedin.com/in/catharine-m-parnell/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

When I spoke to Tania Martin on Wednesday via Zoom, it was with a retired JAG who has transitioned to a part-time job after working full-time for a period of time after leaving the Corps. While emphasizing she works with great people with a good company, Tania was candid about still seeking something that provides her with the same level of fulfillment that serving in the Army JAG Corps for 30 years did. Most importantly, however, was her emphasis on having patience with the career progression process after leaving the military. Tania's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/tania-martin-5075a79/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

This morning, I catch up with my former shipmate, retired Navy captain judge advocate. In a wide-ranging conversation, Vida talks about her career progression from the Navy to the DoD Office of General Counsel and the Senior Executive Service as well as observations and experiences with job-seeking generally. Vida's LI profile can be accessed here. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

This podcast is focused on helping judge advocates plan their career pivot from serving in uniform to a career after the military. An underlying them is the need to plan. This week, however, is focused on carpe diem. As you will hear, Brendan Burke thought he would still be on active duty right now, but on a whim, he applied for a job that was of interest to him and the rest is history. The URL for his LI profile is https://www.linkedin.com/in/hbrendanburke/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

In this episode, Scotch Perdue, an attorney with the Fluor Corporation, opens up about the challenges and roadblocks he experienced in making the move to the corporate world, but also those who were incredibly helpful, and his efforts to strengthen the military law network inside the Association of Corporate Counsel with the establishment of a Military Veterans Affinity Group within the National Capital Region Chapter. The URL for Scotch's LinkedIn profile is https://www.linkedin.com/in/scotch-perdue/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

Today's guest is someone who truly seizes the day and follows his passion. Retiring in 2014, Dave did not begin focusing on his next career until he was done, ultimately working in compliance in higher education. However, it is what he has done in addition to his post-JAG career that is inspirational as it is impressive. Besides working full-time, Dave has written three fictional novels and is the producer of "Voices to Veterans," in which he records the histories of veterans from all eras and all branches of the military. To learn more about retired Navy JAG Dave Grogan, visit his website DavidEGrogan.com. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

Captain Drew Henderson finished out in his career in San Diego, holding several jobs including as a Commanding Officer and Military Judge before retiring in 2017. His number one consideration in both his final duty stations and follow-on career were driven by geography, as his wife and young son lived in Los Angeles. As you will hear, Drew ultimately landed a position as Counsel with the Department of Defense Office of Hearings and Appeals in their satellite office in LA. Always great when good things happen to good people. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

In this episode, Sue Stewart shares her post-career journey that took her from her adopted home of San Diego, CA, up the coast to San Francisco, to serve as environmental counsel at Chevron before moving over to the biotechnology company Genentech. This journey has all the subplots that you have come to love in this podcast: great timing, the power of the network, and good things happening to good people. Sue's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/scstewart/. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

In this conversation, Alex Loh shares his journey from the civilian world straight into the Air Force Reserve. So, whereas I have had several guests who were former military officers who transitioned from active duty to a civilian attorney career, and had their perspective of what skills JAGs bring with them, Alex's perspective has been shaped by working in both worlds. Alex's LinkedIn bio can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lohalex/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

In this episode, I talk to U.S. Air Force veteran Josh Traeger who left active duty four years ago and moved to Traverse City, Michigan, where he opened his own law practice, True North Legal Group, which includes a division, The Military Defense Firm, dedicated to representing service members worldwide. In this wide-ranging conversation, we talk about what motivated him to leave the active component, the ups and downs of opening up a practice, and the ability to maintain a worldwide practice in today's technologically-advanced world. Josh's LinkedIn profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-traeger-349ab01a5/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

In this episode, Genevieve Loutinsky shares how she took the experiences gained during almost 10 years in the Navy to become a member of the Operational Technology Law Unit with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Genevieve's LinkedIn profile is located at https://www.linkedin.com/in/genevieve-l-064076192/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

In today's episode, I talk to Bob Liu who, thanks to a Skillbridge opportunity, got some exposure in working legal issues associated with a tech start-up and has ended up working at GitHub, a software development company. However, as you will hear, it was not necessarily an easy journey. In Fact, Bob was out of work for several months before landing his current gig, driving home once again that one needs to do his or her homework, endure disappointments, but remain optimistic, which Bob did. Bob's profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobertliu/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

In today's episode, Amanda Myers and I talk about our perspective journeys from the Navy JAG Corps to the U. S. Department of Veterans Affairs and U.S. Department of Commerce, respectively. Amanda's LinkedIn Profile can be accessed here. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

In this episode, I sit down with the Honorable (and a captain in the Navy Reserve) Rich Federico whose nomination to become a judge for the US Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit was confirmed by the U.S. Senate in December 2023. One of the few officers who every assignment on active duty and then in the Reserve Component was a litigation assignment, Judge Federico left active duty in 2015 and then served as a Federal public defender in Oregon and then in Kansas before becoming a Federal judge. A truly remarkable accomplishment for a true officer and a gentleman. Judge Federico's profile can be accessed here. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

This episode is about opportunity, timing, initiative, and a truly good fit. The tail end of Alex's career in the State of Washington's National Guard saw him working very closely with the Attorney General's office on some unique issues, including a pandemic, civil disturbances, and civil disobedience with the establishment of a purported autonomous zone in Seattle. So, with established relationships and some familiarity with state laws, governance, and how to get things done, as well as a desire to stay local, what do you do when they want to hire now but you will not retire until months later? Skillbridge, of course! Alex's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-m-straub/. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

This week, I talk to James McGhee, who was a practicing attorney with plans to become a U.S. Attorney, decided to join the U.S. Air Force after a fateful hike with his brother up The Incline at Pike's Peak in Colorado Springs. James went onto serve just over four and one-half years before moving onto his current role as an employment and labor law attorney in Dallas, Texas. James's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-mcgehee/. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

This week we learn about Mark's unplanned career as a lawyer. As a young soldier, Mark ended becoming a paralegal after the Army did away with his MOS, and then went to law school after a conversation with a JAG. After graduating he had no intention of coming back into the Army (going into private practice instead) until 9/11. He then went onto serve another 15 years. In retirement, Mark served in Government before moving onto his current corporate role. Mark's profile is available on LinkedIn. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

Post-military career progression is driven by a number of factors including geography, an individual member's financial requirements, area of expertise, and desires. In this instance, we hear from Brent Thompson whose career progression was driven predominantly by location, location, location. In this instance, Brent and his wife had purchased a house in a rural part of California. Yet, via informational interviews, networking, and the rise of remote working due to the pandemic, he landed a job with a firm out of Sacramento, California. Brent's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-thompson/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

We close out 2023 with Holly Taylor who enlisted in the Navy before earning her commission and retiring after 26 years of service. While in the Navy, Holly served as a storekeeper, legalman, as a security officer, and then in admin and HR. After leaving the service, Holly went back to school before joining Amazon, serving in Arizona and Alabama, before breast cancer forced her to focus on her health. Holly now serves as a virtual assistant, is active in the military transition field, and leadership coaching and consulting. Holly is a great example of the opportunities that await all of us as we leave military service. Holly's LinkedIn profile is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/hollybrasheartaylor?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

Yesterday, I had the opportunity to sit down with George Mathew, who talked about his post-military career progression, going from serving in the U.S. Air Force active component to Immigration and Customs Enforcement to USAID, and now to Lockheed Martin. George credits his experiences in the Air Force, including the great people for whom and with whom he worked, for his success. He also offers some great advice to transitioning JAGs as they try to determine what comes next. George's profile can be found at https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-m-300a391ba/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

Today, we hear from Luis Rodriguez who spent 43 years as a U.S. Army soldier until earlier this year. Luis now serves as an Associate Deputy General Counsel with the Army. In this conversation, we hear again about the importance of networking, networking, networking, other issues associated with entering Government Service, and even the mundane, but important administrative matters such as navigating post-military healthcare coverage. Luis's LinkedIn profile is available at https://www.linkedin.com/in/luis-o-rodriguez-14250b234/ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

What do you get when you take a JAG who has always loved the outdoors, returns to Maine after six years on active duty, including time in Europe, and give him a window at his new law firm overlooking the water in Portland, and combine that with a tolerance for risk? The philosophical answer is never working a day in one's life. In this podcast, we hear from Chad Olcott, who serves as the director for Apogee Adventures (www.apogeeadventures.com) and founder, Parallel Adventures (parallel-adventures.com). --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support

Although our paths did not cross too many times while serving in the Navy JAG Corps, Ian Wexler and I had many common career experiences, including career challenges and duty stations. Ian's last assignment on active duty was as Director, Institute for International Legal Studies in Newport, RI. Following his retirement this past fall, Ian became Director, Institute for Security Governance in Monterey, CA. DISCLAIMER: THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED BY IAN WEXLER IN THIS PODCAST ARE HIS PERSONAL VIEWS AND NOT THOSE OF THE INSTITUTE FOR SECURITY GOVERNANCE, THE DEFENSE SECURITY COOPERATION UNIVERSITY, THE DEFENSE SECURITY AGENCY, OR THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE. Ian's biography can be found HERE while his LinkedIn profile can be accessed HERE. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/tom-welsh/support