Talks with Tyger

i talk with my maker 27 years later

We talk about why selling online is a nightmare, the existential crisis of pricing your own work, and whether or not tagging clothes with painter's tape is genius or trash. Timestamps:  0:00 – Sydney Tall: Confirmed tall, also makes clothes 2:15 – The Keith Haring exhibit and creative inspiration 5:42 – Block printing vs. screen printing: the pros, cons, and suffering 9:18 – Puff ink disasters and why I judge people who wear Plastisol 13:55 – Polyester should be illegal (but seriously) 18:07 – Hand-carving blocks until your hands go numb 21:45 – The struggle of making screens that don't suck 25:22 – Bleach is my god now (and how to not disintegrate your clothes) 31:40 – Selling clothes: Online vs. in person and why Depop messages are a headache 36:15 – The emotional rollercoaster of selling pieces you actually like 41:03 – Thrift store gems, vintage finds, and people who staple price tags to fabric (why?) 46:55 – Sydney's brand “Yikes” and the eternal struggle of naming things 51:28 – The problem with logos and why I don't want branding on my clothes 57:02 – The great painter's tape debate: DIY genius or just lazy? 1:02:45 – The art of a good photoshoot (and why I hate studios) 1:08:30 – Thrifting, upcycling, and the insane world of high-end vintage 1:13:10 – Final thoughts, creative struggles, and where to find Sydney's work

In this episode, we sit down with a University of Oregon professor specializing in entrepreneurship and tech innovation.  Alex Murray is an Assistant Professor of Management at the University of Oregon's Lundquist College of Business, specializing in how entrepreneurs pull resources together and how emerging tech—like crowdfunding, blockchain, and DAOs—is changing the game.  He's been published in top academic journals, sits on editorial boards for heavy-hitter publications like the Academy of Management Review, and was a Guest Editor for a special issue on AI in management. Before landing at UO, he was a Senior Researcher at ETH Zurich and earned his PhD from the University of Washington.  We explore the impact of AI on business and society, the challenges of revitalizing unbanked communities, and the evolving landscape of digital marketing. The conversation takes a deep dive into creativity, commerce, and technology, featuring personal stories of entrepreneurial struggles, investment strategies, and the changing dynamics of content creation in a saturated digital world. Timestamps & Key Moments

Bang bang. Oh, I think the back's a lot cooler in the front and the front's pretty cool. I like the front more I'm not even joking. She's just Contradict Well, you know, I see the world very differently because I'm an impressive thinker you are like I like this arm That's me. I don't think I can possibly rank these cups in any sort of universal way though. No, no I think based on the garment that makes sense the garmento then we're if it's like a really high quality one But it has a little hole but I'm gonna fix it with I'm gonna sew it and then better make it double It's what do they call it distressed this is a distressed garment hand-stitched hand-stitched Let's see, what's it called when it's from like a did you ever make a Build-A-Bear? Yeah, you know how you like get to put a little heart in them. Oh, yeah, that's kind of like, um if you were to If you were to stitch one of them you put like a little something in there Imagine if you had your hand in your pocket and you could feel like a little heart Hands down the worst one of these pants that actually made oh my god. I love those. I'm just kidding. Yeah, these are mid Yeah, let's not look like someone had a little period mistake Poppin they turned out sick. Yeah, that's turned out great. Did you is this the same one that you were wearing the Pop one or we oh, no, we're getting to a nevermind. Nevermind. Look at this. I answered my own question Like so these those are cool. These three pants. These two pants are all those. Those are all really good So like two out of three. Yeah, really. I mean and Someone will love the third look at that for like like I kind of crushed most let me see that one I Ain't nothing special Yeah, but like it's cute. It's fun. It's funny. I was actually wearing I'm like I feel like if it had like the spongebob flowers on it, it'd really bring it all together. Yeah, and yeah, it's I'm kind of using Just whatever whatever called stamps stamps. No, but uh Shroom prints the other one iron on patches. Oh as a way of Just covering that and also being like special. Yeah special like you Just you know, it's average but someone put a bow on it It's never fun when people like we're both we're both special. Yeah So it was Kenzie and are breaking our boundaries I'm just developing a method of like okay. How are you talking to show with your partner where it's like We need to develop the fully built characters of like, okay Yeah, we have a few ideas ideas cooking. Yeah, you take you take the lead because I'm like physically. I'm I'm popping it I'm giving it. Yeah, you are popping it. I'm I'm eating candy. Um Well, there's there's talks of maybe a documentary there's talks of maybe some Sketches skits. I don't know which comedy comedy. This comedy both the shorts turned out horribly Like not even really worth showing. I mean show Pop it and this third pair of shorts off it for me BAM BAM BAM I call it that side that side that side. Yeah, the funny if this is okay. I just didn't really have any blue shorts Me up. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and then I just blew you I don't really mind those Yeah, they're just mid they just need like I mean they're they're like basic bitch. Yeah, but like then they can let the top shine, you know That's a good point. I know like having the bomb. Oh, look at the back though. I like that that corner Yeah, this kind of matches a lot of the ones I was making later, which guys does either reinforce that like the temperature has a roll Or oh, so yeah, this beauty's nice this beauty is a beauty Yeah, so this is the vision pants No sneak peeks at what's next That's cool. Mm-hmm. That's cool over there. These pants rock. Yeah, we did a great job Whispers yeah bulbs and whispers. I know like a Framing or like a Like a way of talking like that almost looks 3d in a way. Mm-hmm coming over the way of like describing different places Kind of like clouds. Yeah, they have like six straddle cumulus. No, yeah Because like this one has a whole system has similar bulbs. Mm-hmm Is this just kind of the same as this just bulbs and splashes? No Yes, this has so much more personality. This looks so good on Though like that's where these pants like they look really cool as is. Yeah, but they look exquisite on Exquisite I can't wear cheap pants through the whole show. Mm-hmm Tiger doesn't like to be like, oh I'm getting a show from here Everyone can totally see him now. Oh, I like it with this shirt. Yes. Yeah Yeah, what can I say? Slay? I'm an intense. What else could you say gang gang? I mean gang gang Those ones looks really cool on as well. Yes, these ones will let the the tops pop top pop I mean, yeah, cuz a lot of I mean this top pops top pop Definitely. Yeah. No, it does and like that's what you want from your top. Yeah, it's to pop. Yeah, really anything you want it to pop But you don't want top and top and bottom can pop like this is a top that pops. It is a top that pops That's a cool top. The whole thing is like this is just a statement piece of this anyone looks so good They look so good on the bleach. Yeah, I like sometimes that they can't really see him. Mm-hmm There's a subtle like see ya. I can't even see ya Yeah, but then it's like if you got retroflectively splash Did you catch that you catch that leak leak leak reference? So, yeah The inside this has like some right here Mm-hmm. And so if I press right there, this doesn't have like it's like it seems like this would have been thin enough that My guess would be that the front and back would have been like much closer match. It's like that's really cool The specific thing that you just showed me Because it looked like something Nope, it's not what I thought. I thought it looked like maybe like a skeleton dancing, but it did not Oh nice back Cohesive, yeah, very cool. Very nebulous. The whole thing is I'm gonna register like when I was making this because you're filming We're talking. I have no idea how I tie this together Yeah, I'm just actually kind of standing In memoriam to story. Oh, I guess that means he's dead. That's not what I meant Thank you very much. I made the punch of myself didn't God, I mean, it's sick. I know it's really hard because I did I did get a lot of these easy gap ones to sell But now I'm like, whoa now that I got official easy Easy gap ones because I'm like a lot of minor just samples Scamples, so it's fun to have a couple there. I like the way they do this if you feel it It doesn't feel you felt it. No, but I can see oh, yeah. Yeah, it's like that's what it's that's what it should be That's what you need. I Need a easy a easy quality tag. Yeah. Yeah I believe in you. I think you can do it. I think a screen printing is the way. Yeah, I do too My black velour. I did put double X on triple X off God like that is just really divine divine. Yeah, I like that. I've got some really good phrasing for D Vine So if there's one This one's okay. I think it's kind of neat and special Yeah, nothing really special, but they're pretty cool here, but that's pretty cool. Like it looks almost like a solar flare Yes Interesting one right here. That one's kind of neat Yeah, and say I'm like if I didn't have any of these beaches and I just saw this I'd be that'd be I'd be so Stoked isn't it if this is like how one of my places turned out. I'd be like, holy shit. I'm doing this full-time I'm gonna be a millionaire. Oh my god. I'm gonna be a thousand or Yeah No, um, I mean this is this is kind of like the they play bagpipes like this is like The end of a bleach session for me. Oh like a funeral. Yeah. Yeah kind of it's more of like A celebration. It's like more of a new chapter really. Yeah selling Okay, got a little cocky and thought you could see how you could scale. Can you sell I don't want to sell I don't want to scale either though. You got to go out and work. I'm curious. So this is a really I Like this a lot more than the ones that were like I removed all of the red and is all pink. Really? Yeah, but this is just you know, it's a little underwhelming But like one or two screen prints. Oh, yeah, I know divine But I kind of like it kind of being simple. Mm-hmm. Jimple. I think I think one or two screen prints It's hard to beat that I mean like but like how much so how much more would it could it probably go for with a screen print? I don't know. This is about money for you. Yeah, it's what it's ever been about man I'm just trying to find the quickest way to make a buck. Totally. That's apparent The quicker I can get there Regardless of who I fucking hurt That's nice I Like this line, yeah, I've started just like folding clothes like like this Like I make these like folds this this sleeve. This is money. I Love the dark I like this one more. That's wild. Oh my god. I think I could do poles on these I think I'm curious house completely split. You should do poles. I mean that would be good. Yeah I was like, which ones you like more watch it be like Completely split completely split. Okay, just to get this side. You're trying to split the vote. I am Trying to do some splits and vote I'd love to see you do the splits I think you could you know Dexterity, you really put your mind to it And you're ass into it My mind it's about like my hamstrings are tight. No, it's your mind. It's your mind That's me. It's literally just your mind. You're gonna wrap your head around your feet to walk on the call like Well, I mean like, you know, oh like over time. Yeah, okay, obviously. Yeah, I'm not like you're down in the juice No, no that's my legs No, that's definitely in your legs. Would you describe this? This is basic basic trash. I mean trash it yeah Straight garb like some poor sucker will get it. Okay, I kind of like that looks like a little heart though Cute I do I do like hearts and that's kind of neat. I like the lines Mm-hmm. I started going way more line centric Yeah, like those like those really kind of solid lines like Cunning and create perfect like like symmetry which is like that's what makes the hearts. I like I like symmetry Feels right does feels good in my brain Yeah, like this one's chaos, but I'm like, I like there's still symmetry. Yeah, this one's really cool money That's a good shirt, too, I was one of my favorites, yeah Boom symmetry Yeah, this one's cool. Oh Backs a freak though. That's a cool Oh the backs a freak. Oh Looking looking That's a neat little shirt, I'm curious to see what it looks like on Fashion show fashion show fashion show at work Mm-hmm We'll treat for the audience. Oh my god, I mean it was a little cotton candy for me Google just bands make Cute It kind of reminds me of like Like someone in high school who listens to like angsty yes angsty as angsty of music as possible. Yeah, unfortunately Cute I like yeah this one I like I like Because those whites just pop out so much more just pop. Where's like this is the whites don't pop Oh, this is cute though. He's a cutie. He's a cutie. Oh, look at this This is a girl shirt this one's for the girls Yeah, it's pretty cool. It's kind of big Yeah, but it would be like an oversized. Yeah These make the best this one easy shirt that you have the it's the same cut it needs screen prints though for it to be maximum Amazing like new screen prints. I don't have yet. Yeah, I already have new screen It needs stars It needs girl shit I do like that Kind of not like I don't like his little eyes. I don't like that. I Hate that shirt. No, it's so funny That's what's dead to me You watched Wednesday. It's like you kind of like some level of that like ghoulish which I wanted to like it Yeah, I know I know I Art stylish, but you just didn't like the I didn't like I didn't like any of it. It was fucking It was horrible. It was a horrible show that everyone was like jerking off so hard And so I was like, maybe I just don't see it. Maybe it comes together and it didn't it fucking sucks Yeah, it was it was really bad. There's a couple shows in a row that you kind of like I was on a bad streak. I was in a bad place Bad place. I just like I Like the edges It's got its edges back framed. It's like a little frame. Yeah. Yeah, exactly Just look like you're out like yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, that was cool Well, why did this like bleach so much more? See this is all these were both gray Cut to you I've done the testing John all the testing I know exactly what I'm doing This one almost looks like okay Like someone's sitting cross-legged and then there's like fire Yeah, it's like his head's like right there yes, yeah, it's down to heat right there I'm seeing it upside down. So who knows? Can you see the face when I flip it? Stupid pimple No That is just a reflection of myself. I am the stupid. So yeah, where's the face? Well, now I see it differently. Oh, I totally see it right there right and then oh my god There's a deer head right there. Oh, there is that one. I totally saw. Oh My god, are you kidding? And then it has like two butterflies. I love it. Yeah actual George This is a Russia. This one's Russia White Russia. Oh It's okay. It would pass. It's okay. The back is not so bad that it ruins the front, correct I look like someone spilled a little drink on it or something And this interesting part is like sometimes if the bleach just barely hits a place It still doesn't it has the undercut like the color under it and it just looks like dirty Hmm, but it's not and that's what that's why I used to think that if I'd set the bleachers on opposite colors That it would stain through. Hmm when really it was just happened to be Because it was so odd. I'm like, why does this happen randomly? No Where do that term come from making headway Yeah, right This one's cool Yeah, this one's great. Yeah, this one's really cool and it kind of different way than any of my other ones have been. Mm-hmm Yeah, that one's neat Great back. Neat. Neat. Neat got a nice back to run Got a good backside This one is a little spooky vibes that's pretty like interesting like the popping Since I was going through photos, I'm trying to get those organized I saw the photo that you took for when we were watching the solar eclipse. Mm-hmm like way back, you know Mm-hmm, and it's interesting because your camera caught Like this little glimpse of light and it looks like an upside-down cross above my head. Yeah I remember that I kind of like it Kind of neat Christian Australian Christians, no this one I've reached a ton of I've made this one so cute. Look at the little stars If you look at all these pretty much all of these ones are like this same is they're so there's like army green Really? Yeah, and was army green this color? Yeah Weird. Yeah, but they all bleached into like three or four different colors really cool That's great. I wonder if they ever bleach it one color and they're like, yeah, and so then they died a darker color Yeah, I'd be curious to you. I know like maybe this was just leftover dye was my But they I mean it's high quality like I mean just the feeling of it. Yeah, it's a nice shirt soft I like to be nude for the least amount of shows possible, you know, I Try I don't I try and fail. Oh cute. I like the shoulders I really like the sides. Mm-hmm. I'm all for the side and then boom just a big This one has very much galaxy like and look you have you have little stars on your shoulders. So cute. Yeah, that's pretty cool I love me a good star. Yeah, I like a strong shoulder. I Didn't love this one first This looks like a tie-dye Sure busting out into tears way to deflate me tie-dye cross Another cutie for Kenzie cuties These keys have sold out tigers coliseum cotton of cotton has not sold a single piece. He seemed very Argumentative during the arbitration process every piece randomly go triples in price Kenzie on the other hand, she could not get rid of them fast enough. Yeah, do you want to see it? Yeah I'm gonna try it on that's high fidelity. I'm gonna give it a try. Yeah So you can get some data Kind of some shoulder. I love all of it actually. Yeah, it's really cool Honestly, I feel like it's such a specialty thing cuz it's like Small. Mm-hmm. You have you have one you're like the opposite of Deep up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're all real sizes for real big People we're like tiny chicks tiny chicks with big tits Do they don't even their bras are like painting. Oh, really? I don't know tiny chicks with times Really women to be small small this one's like this is you of oh like Colors kind of there's no yellow in this. This is green and orange. That's yellow That's yellow Yeah, it could be more yellow. I stopped it at orange because I like orange more. I didn't stop it. I know I I did this I Immaculately picked the perfect time to flip. I said, hey, this is perfect freeze Yeah Hmm a little bit of a long time. I really like this V.A.I. about the road. Yeah. I love this little round thing. I'm gonna be in there and it's happy. It's having me., so a big picture. a big picture. a big picture. a big picture. a big picture. a big picture. I don't see this one make pahops though. I don't see this one make pahops though. I don't see this one make pahops though. I don't see this one make pahops though. Kind of like the um Kind of like the um I think you look good. I think you look good. I think you look good. Yeah, yeah. I think you look good. Yeah, yeah. You don't want to be on camera. That's okay. I mean you don't want to be. You don't want to be. You don't want to be. You put this one over it. I don't do green and orange. You don't do green and orange. I like green and orange a lot more than like You don't do green and orange. I like green and orange a lot more than like You don't do green and orange. I like green and orange a lot more than like Trash. I love this. Feel how soft it is. Dummy. Dummy soft. You know it's dummy soft. It is dummy soft. Thank you. It'd be a good pillowcase. Or like, you know what's the thing you put in a Trash can where the garbage goes? I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. This is why. Bandwagon jumper This is why. Bandwagon jumper Kenzie, you're mean. You just pick and pick and pick. The podcast is the only time I get Meenataker. Yeah. The rest of the time I'm like why ya ya? Except they do it. That one's Sick. Nice one. Try it. Flip it off, bitch. Flip it on, flip it on. Flip it on, flip it on. Hmm. Hmm. Which is a lot more messy in person. Like on a person. Really, really go like this To it. It's just very Off the lopsided. It's kind of just big. It's a double XL. I like it though. It covers my butt. Okay, now it looks pretty cool. Like that arm looks cool. To quote you. Right above your left hip looks great. Yeah. Stage left. Stage left. I feel like the shoulders are really like Like, yeah, they have very pointy shoulders. Yeah. This is one of the green Ones. This is black. It's funny. It has more of a green hue than the other green shirt did. Within that triangle? No. Oh, you mean other than the army green. Yeah. Yeah, the army greens are pretty much brown. You can see them right The bottom, the bottoms Of that messy, of that big star. Down, yep, those. Yeah. So those, those all turn into those. This one's great, but I don't It's not perfect for me because of the feel. It's a little, I kind of like some rougher. I feel like that would really soften up. Probably would. Honestly, so I liked it When it was flat. But this has really Surprised me. It's interesting this. It kind of looks like I like No, it's funny. It kind of looks like it's like going up that way though. I just want to see if like Does this look the same on me as it does on you? It's going to look way better on you. It really does look different on different people. Yeah. This one's great. Grip. Personal. Jersonal. That's my Jersonal file. I don't think I, I think Bang. Um, I think It looks pretty cool on you actually. Oh yeah, well it's crazy. Like, that's weird. Yeah. Not many of them do that. Yeah. So yeah, it doesn't mean to be like Like the shoulder's weird. I think it's meant for a really wide guy. Wide guy. Wide guy. Well that's you. You're a big guy. I'm a big man. This one, this one turned out great Just because of right here. This saved it. That's pretty cool. Yeah, put the vultures on. Put it on. She puts on. I just, I don't love the neck holes of them. My neck hole. My neck hole. I kinda like it. I like the feel of the sleeves. This is a nice shirt. It's a good shirt. I like the feel. Yeah. The real feel. The real feel. She's a balancing goddess. I'm trying to be wide. You are wide. I'm like a fucking line batter. You're not too wide though. That's this one. This one. Boom. Nice. And like boom. Just with that, we're pretty much done. I like when you put them away like a forklift. Me too, but these ones each gotta go to a very specific spot. This one's going up behind you. Oh. Beep beep. That's the rest of the show for like the next 20 minutes. Tiger and Kenzie pretending to be forklifts. Completely sober. Just forklifting. Forklifting. Just forking. Trying to make a living. Forklifting. This is gonna go in the cell pile. This guy. Is this the cell pile? Yeah, I saw it. If you know. If it all falls down. And it all falls down. She's looking a little wob. That's what it does. Wobbed? You have to beat the wob. Wob. Wob. Wob. It's the wob. Wob. Wob. That's a easy shirt, but I think I'll sell it. Bye. This is a easy shirt, but I think I'll sell it. Bye. This is the double layer Kenzie. I think I'll sell it. To the pile. Sergeant Pile. Is this the cell? Yeah, every single thing over there. Oh, really now? You can even put it on that really cool ass red shirt. Or hoodie. Getting a little tired here? Yeah, I'm sorry. Oh, this is the shirt that has the double. It's just a lumper. It's not a lover. It's a lumper. And then that you can park right back up there. I'm not sleepy, you're sleepy. I've always wanted to be a boss, you're sleepy. Looks like an eyeball. On the desk. I've never noticed it. You see how there's three holes? The majority of the time it's been covered up. I know how to do damage control. Wow, the back of this one looks great. That's who I talked to? He looks perfect. I do it with the back out, but it's okay. Again. Kenzie does it perfectly. Kenzie forgets the back and the front thing though. I'm so used to doing the front forward. I like hiding it. Because the back usually looks about the same. This is crazy looking. I think I do the front because I had graphic tees for a long time. And that's how I would distinguish. What shirt is this? Oh shit. Who is this, I say. I do have relationships with men. Is it my golden boy? No. Who is your golden boy? That's a good question. See, doesn't that look blue? Something could have been staining it. Who stained it? Not one of us. Who is the damager? The damager. Who? I'm folding here. You cut the clear right away. Look at that. God, you're good at what you do. That looks really nice. I don't know why that's so fucking funny. Yeah, so that one and this one are my favorites. And the one I'm wearing is okay. How is it? Okay. I'm going to take this tangy shirt off. Do the rest of the shawl. In the braless. Oh my god, I'm so sleepy. I'm so sleepy! So sleepy that I ate like two bites of that cotton candy. I'm like, okay. Donezo. Bye. But I'm really happy I documented these because I've done so many. I mean, god damn it. The amount of fucking footage that I didn't want to just be like, okay, that last one, yeah, I just skimped out on it. Because I'm going to be like, prove that you made them, man. Because you probably didn't. Where's the street cred in that? Where's the street cred? You probably just bought them. Boney. Okay, so we're living out my nightmare right now. Everyone's like, you didn't. You just, I bet you took it from someone else. From a smaller, if you loved it. Smaller, if someone was tiny. I stole it from a bitchy. Nice shirt. Thanks. It's a cool sweater, sweater, sweater, sweater, sweater. I like the green. Green boy. Alright, thanks everyone for tuning in. I don't know what I'm going to do with three different camera angles of all this. Please, god help me. Bye. Bye. Bye. Last word, bye. Can't keep doing this to me. I'm gonna freak. I'm gonna go bananas. Hidden. Didn't know the show was kept going. He freaked out. Not very well. He doesn't really do it that much. He doesn't have a lot of practice. Doesn't really know how to. He kind of just goes. I'm not happy. Fixed it. And then he goes. I'm not bleaching another god damn shirt until I'm happy. But I'm not happy until I bleach another shirt. That is the problem with life. Yup, yup. Alright, let's go watch some tv and pass out. Alright, cool. You'll stop the camera. Don't bang that thing. Don't clap that thing. Oh, wait. I'll clap it. I'll clap it, baby.

Transcript: So, honestly what I'm thinking, I'm in a really unique situation and nobody is often open when they are in this situation.   Kenzie and I, we made some money with our business.   I successfully put it into some tech stocks, made some money with it and then instead of putting it back in the US dollar or keeping it in stocks when it just seemed, it was in July of this year.   We were down in California filming and I'm like, this seems unsustainable.   I'm almost parking my assets, my capital into clothing which is harder to liquidate but I feel like I have a higher impact on it rather than like, I don't have an impact on Apple stock worth.   But for the first time in my life, I'm slightly over leveraged.   I mean, I've had student loans my whole life so I've been in debt my entire adult life which is a fascinating thought, isn't it?   Well, it depends.   For some people, that's normal.   For others, it's not.   That's what I'm learning.   I'm just trying to be open with it with people because I've always, aside from student loans which are on pause and forbearance and whatnot, I've always had money but now I'm slightly in debt and it's a situation that most people don't speak openly about which it doesn't seem like it really benefits many people.   So I'm just curious like throughout your life, have you ever leveraged yourself or when you've been like, I mean, you talked with, my understanding of what you do is you talk with business owners kind of frequently.   You may have experienced people in that position a lot.   I'm curious your thoughts on leverage, essentially.   Yeah.   Well, in general, I mean, it's clear from the work that I've done and the life I've lived that there's different levels of leverage, if you want to call it that, that people are willing to extend and their comfort is very stew.   So some people don't mind going to the ultimate and spending whatever it is that they want to do thinking that that's going to be important to them and other people aren't willing to take that kind of a risk.   So they withhold that and on the other end of the spectrum, they're actually looking at a situation where you have not much, but you don't want to spend it with the idea that you'll pay for it as it goes as opposed to using credit, for example, and that would be what I've experienced anyway with people.   Move that just a little closer.   So you said if you'd use the term leverage, would you use credit or debt or I'm curious?   Yeah, I'm more comfortable with that.   I understand leverage is just another word that describes the circumstance and it may be more favorable for some people to use the word leverage.   Well, a lot of people buy a house and they're like, cool, I own a house, but I'm like, no, you took on a $300,000 debt.   They're heavily leveraged in what's it called, the housing market, not retail, it's real estate.   Oh, real estate market.   They're just heavily leveraged with all their capital in real estate.   Okay.   And that's true.   But it's helping them achieve what they want out of life, that they want to have a house that they can call their own, even though technically it belongs to whoever holds the paper on the house until that loan is paid off.   Yeah.   Yeah.   In your experience, do you think it's better to go, like my understanding is of what you said, correct me if I'm wrong, is when you say it goes slower, you just mean bootstrapping, which and like I'm someone, you can't offend my feelings.   I'm not hurt.   I'm speaking openly because I just want more people to talk openly about finances so it's less of a taboo.   Okay, again, my personal values are to pay as you go.   And so I'm most comfortable with that.   But I also felt that at a certain point in my life, I did want to have a home and so I did borrow money to do it.   And that's probably the only time I've really borrowed money is to buy a home.   And then pay it off as fast as I can.   That's really how I looked at it.   I just don't like to be in debt.   I don't feel like I want to owe people or anyone something.   I'd rather just say, I can't have this right now and that's just the way it is.   That's how I've been my entire life.   But I think maybe having student loans, so a negative net worth my whole life almost numbed me out to it or something, but at a certain point is just an opportunity presented itself where the financials on purchasing these and then really the reason why I haven't sold them out so I'm just preparing them is once I sell them, I can't use them for my deal goal, which is B, I want to show a manufacturer that actually has the scale and a design house.   Hey, here's a way to add a full design to close.   It's cheaper than tie-dyeing.   It's quicker, less like labor man hours.   It has a higher fidelity design because all of these clothes in here, the cotton's grown in the U.S. and it's sewn in the U.S. and I really want to hopefully reach out, connect with and work with them almost as an exit of sorts.   But as the fallback, I can sell it, which is very fortunate.   I'm very fortunate.   But it's weird having my money frozen in a very non-liquid asset.   Right and of course because the market changes, you're hoping that it changes to your favor as opposed to going the other way because it's just like the stock market goes up and down and so our changes is however you want to call it.   No, so I'd really agree except for there's nothing like what I've made.   So I'm on the forefront of bleach, like bleaching clothes in an interesting way where everyone who see like on the internet and so I've given some to friends who come on the show and people and they always just say like, hey, a friend wants to buy it.   They don't know how much like it's worth because something like what it's worth is up to marketing or like essentially like Gucci, Balenciaga, like really fancy ones like not that I would want to.   But they charge a really high premium even though the product isn't as high of quality.   So the market is just, the market's fugazi in a way.   Well the market is what it is and it changes.   That's all.   And sometimes you ride the wave and it's a good market and sometimes you fall off the board and it's, you're in trouble.   So what is that?   What could you play out that scenario for like if you'd help me?   Because essentially I'm in a unique, like my entire life I've been like I don't want to be in debt beyond student loans.   So this is a new thing.   Like literally even up till this most recent month I've paid off all my credit cards in full but I'm looking at the next month I'm like, okay, my credit's going to have a slight amount, like I mean just a couple hundred dollars on it but I can see because we do have a video client, we have a part-time like video client but I definitely did just take on a calculated risk.   I figure rather than being afraid of debt my whole life I want to confront it at a small manageable scale early just to see what because I keep thinking every big company had to leverage or had to take on debt in order to scale.   So I'm just curious, yeah, what are the scenarios?   Well I'd like to go back to your opening statement where you said you took on a lot of student debt with your ability to go to school and today that's vastly different than it was in my day because the amount of debt I took on was almost none and I was able to work and pay it off very quickly because of that.   Student debt today is at a far higher level and it's much more onerous because of that and the reason why I'm going back to that in your situation is because that's where it all began.   It's not like all of a sudden you're in debt, it's that you created that debt for a good reason in order to get an education but the way we operate today is different than 40-50 years ago and so you can't compare the two, that's all I want to say about that.   Yeah, but I will say looking forward to where you are now and where you're trying to avoid being caught up in a debt ridden situation, that's the part that I think you are most concerned about and rightly so.   I don't know that there's an easy answer to that other than to say there's two ways you position yourself financially.   One is you create more income, however that is, or you don't spend as much and so those are the only two methods that help you reduce it and of course it goes faster if you get a combination, if you reduce expense but also increase income.   So the only thing I'll say is everyone's different, every situation is different and you sort of have to look at your entire life and see what contributes to your decisions that cause you to spend money.   What are the values that you're kind of playing towards?   Well that comes from, yeah, your value system initially but you may have a certain set of values that are compromised by your circumstances and you know, we all have things that come up in life you don't plan on, I mean we all know people that have gotten very ill and they weren't expecting it and all of a sudden they have this great debt because they have to take care of themselves in order to survive.   And so I would just say that's a prime example of someone today who tended to not get into debt but found themselves in debt because it was far beyond anything they could anticipate.   Yeah, so if we could bring it to you, I mean I'm curious, what are your kind of core values or guiding, I mean is just avoiding debt, that's like a further down, you know, touch point of I assume how you want to live your life.   I'm just curious how you think about money, like you essentially deal with money for a living and we all deal with money in our personal lives.   You're someone who I would assume for a great deal of time, even more than I've been alive, I've just thought about the concept of money and I would just love to get your thoughts on it.   I mean you're, yeah.   Well I'd like to give you an answer that would qualify in every case but I can't.   What I'm going to say is the ability to manage your way of living is built upon what your hopes and dreams are really and if you can somehow coordinate what it's going to take to cause you to reach those goals and dreams then maybe you can plan it better but I can't say every situation is different, that's what I really have to say on that.   It's not a clear picture that one size fits all but I will, I know that you have talked about how do the values fit in with the way you operate in terms of your day to day existence and that's really, I think maybe the first thing to do is really to establish what's important to you and then to build a budget around that so when I say that it's important to get a sense about in the next year, maybe you could use it as a New Year's resolution or something and just say I'm going to have a plan for this next year and see how it works out and then you can evaluate that plan even six months into it to see if it's working and if it is at the end of the year you renew yourself and see how you can continue to move in that direction but setting up a budget means you have to know where you tend to spend money and then also what's important to you and how much money it's going to take to get to that level that's going to allow you to do what you want to do and those are the estimates that you have to come up with and a sheet of paper is a starting point and then you have to talk about well where's the money going to come from and so you have to analyze you've given me some ideas of how you earn income now well use that as your thought process and write down all the ways that you can earn income that you presently do and then ways that you expect to earn additional income and see how that matches up and the end of the year if you're in in the black that means you've got a little more income than what you've spent hopefully that'll go into some kind of savings or investments and doesn't mean that you don't spend money to do that because maybe you decided to buy a home so you put it into a fund that allows you to put a down payment on a home that would be one example another idea would be to that money that is hopefully in the black it will allow you to think of different ways to use that maybe you have a chance to just do something simple like open up a savings account or you may have an investor that you could talk to that you feel they're giving you some options that will allow you to make a little more than you might get in a bank situation for example but I will say this every year your goals which are built on your values will help you determine what your next year is going to look like if you put it down in front of you and sort of think it through and then the tough part is the discipline you have to be committed to that plan otherwise it'll never work it's I don't think it's any different than if you were taking weight loss classes or something it's going to help you to say okay my goal is to knock off ten pounds and in order to do that I'm going to have to do this this and this but I have to be dogmatic about it and do it the same way each time for try it for three months and see how that works and if you move it along that that gives you encouragement to continue on I'd say all of what you're saying makes a lot of sense and it's how I've lived my life up until this most recent year okay but so a large part of what brought this on is so we do video work for a living right but with AI the advent of it pretty much all digital jobs are up for they could disappear if you know like like I'm trying to hedge in a physical way and also again this is my way of parking money so I put it some investment yeah so successful stocks I essentially I took the money out that I put in just the gains right I put into cotton and bleach because at the end of the day clothing will all like and really really high quality clothing just will always be valuable to someone but it's it's just an interesting it's it's I don't think that people today have the luxury of planning so much a year out I think a lot of young people today are taking kind of bigger risks because just money I mean money inflation's what three percent a year but the amount of money that might or the amount of house that my money could buy like if I had a hundred thousand dollars and then a year from now it's I can buy 80% as much house so really like the US dollar is not a stable place to just kind of park capital yeah is the world we're living in it seems like to me I'm curious well everything's built upon trust that things are going to continue on yes and you and I both know if you just look at the news from day to day that could change any moment I mean look at the hurricane folks back in the southeast what they're dealing with who could have I mean generally speaking yeah there's gonna be hurricanes North Carolina who would have seen that yeah if I had done all this in North Carolina and hurricane came and flooded and I lost it all I couldn't reply what would I do it's so well hopefully you have insurance that would help pay for some of that but even the insurance companies are going they're in a difficult situation themselves because they can't even plan for that worst-case scenario and that's what happened and the US government and whole is is so in debt and so leveraged or you know however it's gonna be that it almost just seems like I mean just the numbers it's like I'm most likely not gonna have and what's it called when when I turned 65 so security yeah like social security is gonna run out unless some radical changes happen so I just I'm just at a point in life where I think I mean most people are on some sort of drug to stay sane I'm very fortunate in that I'm not on an anti-anxiety or an SSRI but my only like my way that I can make that happen is I'm like I have to have faith that I have a chance at success in life and it's just becoming a situation where the stable getting you know getting like a traditional job I mean like a lot of government jobs even could be automated the way quite easy like I mean like just trying to think of what feel because I went to school for physical therapy so that initial debt the initial sin that brought me into this whole place was towards something I was an 18 year old I had no no idea what any of it meant my parents said go to college I had horrible chronic pain at the time so I went to be a physical therapist just because I was like I'm going to figure out how to fix my own pain and I'm very fortunate that it happened but then the actual is funny was my third year into college my first day at a PT office and I was like oh this is not what I want to do the rest of my life but then I'm already 18 grant in debt and then just to finish out that last year of mostly extracurriculars you know so I'm like I've been $25,000 in debt since I've been an adult I see since I've joined the workforce in life right so you know the position I'm in it's funny I'm not like I don't have an anxiety I don't have a concern about it I definitely could overcome it but I just want to be open to the idea that the majority of successful businesses use look I mean like you know like you sell a house and then people say oh you you know you take a lean against it you buy two like people are very leveraged in today's society but it's something that it's taboo to think about being in debt so I'm just trying to bridge that gap in my mind of how to kind of think of those two yeah I again your value is to maybe not be in debt well there are some people that don't see it that way and they and they they as you say leverage one for another with the idea that you know ultimately if they do it well enough they'll have more than enough money to pay it all off that's their hope reality may not go with that but that's their hope and in the end we all act on our hopes yeah hope fears a lot of fear based well exactly but I fear comes into it when all of a sudden hope doesn't look so hopeful so I just say try to look at it in bite size bits as opposed to one big item that you have to take care of as soon as possible because the reality is unless you're winning the lottery or there's some kind of a windfall that comes from something yeah from the windfall exactly unless you have that you're gonna have a you won't have the ability to pay those debts off and I did want to comment about you're right about one thing when it comes to business anyway there's a time when debt makes sense and you have to know that and maybe the best way to look at it is a business that has a seasonal base so let's say they do a lot of crops in the summer they harvest them in the fall and then you know over the winter things are a little slack as far as the money coming in and but they have to pay people to keep the equipment up to get ready for planting and so forth so they take out what we call a line of credit and it's really an ability for cash flow to be there when you need it and then you pay down the line of credit when the money starts coming in from your sale of your products if you could look at that angle in business it makes sense for them to have debt and then while you're not using it you're not gaining interest on that it's strictly only on the balance that that's left so if you pay off that line of credit when your money starts coming in you have zero interest but you have access to it as you need it that would be a to me a good use of debt there are other businesses that I know about that if they want to buy equipment and and it's good tax reasons to do it at a certain time of year and the accountants will will validate that they'll just say you have you've earned this much and you're gonna need this equipment next year and in order to get full benefit of your depreciation and so forth now's the time to buy so maybe you you don't have the cash right then and there so you borrow money for the equipment and then later you pay it off but you've made a good decision because you've got what you need to continue to grow your business to pull it back from money because I don't want to you know pigeonhole you let's take a quick breather of just who you are what are some foundational things that have happened in your life that kind of formed who you were events like decisions to take that job or to move there to meet a partner I'm just curious kind of you know some framing behind all of what you're saying okay well I mean really we're all part and parcel of our upbringing and our values that are imparted to us by people close to us so you know that's certainly part of my life too so breaking news your parents were a big part of your life yes I know what you're saying but in this case for me it was my parents and I was raised in a very typical American household the second generation Irish American in Boston and and so I I was raised in neighborhoods where you know there were four to ten kids in the family it depends on that and so everyone was struggling usually the the fathers worked my father was a railroad car cleaner so what did he do he cleaned railroad cars for 44 years he he also was involved in bringing the troops onto Omaha Beach as a coxswain in the Navy and he had some medical issues that came from that so he wasn't able to progress in his career like a lot of folks were but he certainly was a model for me in terms of understanding what he valued and you know he taught me a lot through that method and my mom stayed at home raising five children and and it was a case of we always had enough to eat and so forth but it was tight and I had to get scholarships in order to go to school and stuff so that was my way of helping to pay the costs and I worked from the time I was 13 on this sort of like well well it seems young my dad actually started it when he was eight we were both caddies we caddied and and which taught me the value of service and and the fact that you if you wanted a dollar you had to earn it you know and that was and I actually look forward to it I I know you don't hear that so much anymore especially when you're looking for people wanting to work they just don't seem to have that interest interest it's it's an interesting I mean the idea that I have the freedom to try to create a good or service that people want to on their own volition spend money on right is the most driving force in my life it's it's a beauty well that's a wonderful gift and as you point out not everyone has it but if you do I know you'll be successful because you'll feel good about yourself number one and number two you'll help other people feel good about themselves so what after high school and college I went into a program that some people are familiar with today's it was called AmeriCorps and I worked in Appalachia which in the coal mining towns that were built way back in the early 1900s and I worked on the subject of housing even then housing was pretty bad for the people that lived in those towns and so but I did that for a while and then I later worked in social work setting helped to establish a mental health facility in Humboldt County and in fact it was the first one and was able to work as a bookkeeper for them but I did all the fundraising for him too to get him going and so that was very interesting yeah that's sort of like well there was a big gap in service in those days that was in the early 70s and so I had a chance to first of all learn to do things I never dreamt of doing while I was in school and again college schooling in general is is very valuable in terms of understanding the theory but the practical application of that theory is what pays you and so you have to try to figure that out and so that was one thing I did and then went back to graduate school and got a degree and I thought I wanted to do counseling and elementary education so I did that and then finally we came to Cottage Grove where I got a job in the school district and worked there for a while and worked for the Catholic Church and their education program and then I said you know I'm really most interested in community relations it took me that many years to sort of sort out what is it I was really interested you're held by that age but so I was about 29 when I realized that so I was about 29 when I realized it and then I started applying for positions that met that criteria and I was able to go to work for Pacific or which is an electric utility in the Northwest and I ended up working in customer relations and sales and I did that for 32 years ultimately I ended up being in charge of the energy efficiency programs for five states and and residential energy efficiency throughout those five states and it was a very interesting job in that sense because that sort of the framework in which we're operating today because first thing you want to do is save it and then you can grow it from there but and we do need to grow it because we have more needs for it but so become as efficient as possible that's kind of the net fit in with my value systems too that I was talking to you earlier that was a kind of a from that I ended up going into public office for about 14 years and that was interesting too because that gave me another dimension to my understanding of how the world worked and also how you can make a difference in people's lives and so I'm curious to delve into that so it's funny you realize that when entering the bureaucratic machine that is the government yes is when you realized the impact you could have helping people yes yeah I'm curious but now you don't work for the government I'm curious I don't you know yeah I'm still doing it helping people yes it seems easier to do not at the government well different yeah maybe let me explain what I I don't know if you have you ever taken a course called junior achievement never heard of it okay well it's actually a nonprofit organization that's established somewhere many years ago and it's basically privately funded and they are they operate in different locations I assume they have it in Eugene now but at the time in Cottage Grove they had junior achievement and some local foundations paid for a director to come in and teach you how to work with children and and older kids too on the issue of our our capitalism for for the United States what it's built on and really the best learning I ever got I felt in in terms of business understanding was how important it is for business and government to have a place in society because they actually I know it feels antagonistic many ways but if it if it does its job right the government provides a level playing field for business to be successful and if you don't have that you're in a country that you know you can't make it or it's owned by the country and and so you don't have capitalism yeah and so I'll just say this it's really that was a basis of my learning that I felt again was in line with my values that said you know we want to have a place where people can take an idea and run with that idea and hopefully make a living off that idea and not only that but the society benefits because no one else has thought of it either and so we all learned from that and so I felt like that was a major learning step in in my process and and so if I'm there right now yeah I have an idea and and I ran and it was of use to society our videography marketing business and now I have a second shot on goal a second one because as a hedge against just as a hedge against AI because it's very just you know first off I love video I hope to be able to do it continually forever right but just we've been meeting some clients who are like I just take a bunch of stock footage with an AI voice over like they just have it do it all for them right so just just being pragmatist and saying what's currently happening rather than just saying oh I hate it or oh I'm gonna fully use it because I really don't like the impact it has in terms of the only thing that's really of true value in life is human-to-human connection right and having an AI or just like some word salad kind of jumbled up in the middle it seems to always usually obfuscate the real core message of the communication so it's it's it's something I use you know in parse but it's not like a wholesale item that I'm like AI is like the backbone of my thing but just getting away from tech that's also how I've stayed sane and managed to not be you know anxious in a world that's every day or talent with climate change is gonna kill you so even if you're financially successful right you know the plan is gonna be done especially by your kid's age so it's like Jesus how do you deal with that and then you know all the jobs are getting on it's like and then you're like there's there's so much that could fill it so just getting away from that and making a really unique but like man I just the most conviction I've had for any financial shot on goal or anything that I've set my assets into is is this it really has helped just to get away from your computer for a little while but what's the space that you're talking about you said building a space where people can take an idea and run with it mm-hmm what's what's the well that's the entrepreneurial spirit in the United States I feel and I don't say it's not in other places obviously most democracies have very successful businesses but I'm gonna say it's the generation of the idea that comes with diversity I think and I say that because I know some people feel like diversity is a bad word or something I don't feel that way at all I feel like if you're part of a group of people you want people to look at things differently and out of that will come some ideas that will generate income because you create a product or a service that many people want and and sometimes they don't even know they want it because it's a I wish I had an example right off the top you can probably help me with that but just think of something that no one ever knew about or thought they needed paperclip okay yeah I know paperclips are dying it seems like but I still use them from time to time but I'm gonna say for a while they're pretty pivotal there in the world right I mean that's and whoever came up with that I knew that the world benefited by it but no one else knew about it you know until they start seeing well yeah I can do this with it you know I saw just say it's it's sort of like what makes us uniquely human is our ability to think and I love the idea that people can invent things and that's part of my joy and the things that I do in life is I find myself talking to people that have done that or I've demonstrated it and it gives me hope that we can solve problems because we have that diversity of thought that allows unique solutions to come about it's a very interesting thing just diversity of thought like Kenzie and I just my partner and I like we've just running a business for going on two years we've just realized that almost any new problem or challenge that we face we just we have almost diametrically opposite modes of thinking yeah and it's just been really fascinating to be like okay well what's the best of the both options or what's the middle ground it's there can be diversity of thoughts and two people who are probably twins but maybe one of them had a unique situation just it's it's very interesting just diversity of thought really does allow just new ideas to enter the mix yeah I mean and frankly people some people are highly paid for those new thoughts and I would just say what it's it's what keeps things moving and if you look at the history of humankind it's really in order to survive you had to keep moving and whether it's always good or bad is secondary it happens because it's required to move on and that's really ultimately the things that are bad get dropped off and things that are good are enhanced or grow into something else but we're fortunate I think that's why I really love the United States is because we're built on that spirit of people coming here to make life better for themselves and I I can speak for my own family that way so I I feel like most families would say the same thing and that word hope is really the ability to take you to that next level because if it's too far out there's no hope and you give up mm-hmm and so what you want is an element of hope what do you hope for today but you know it's changed over the course of your life right I'm curious what like today is your hope my hope for the future well it's hard to talk about it right after the election last night but I'll just say I hope that the United States can somehow find a way to realize that the values that made us what we are the values that will help us in the future too and not to lose sight of those values and you and I have just talked about some of those values but I in the end you know I'll speak as if looking at my grandchildren you know what I would like them to be able to have is a sense that life can be challenging but exciting and that there is a hope that you can actually enjoy life mm-hmm and and as long as you can do that you'll want it for other people after you you know so I don't know if that's the answer but that's kind of what I'm thinking I'm continually hopeful about that I think I do my best work when I'm mentally at peace with myself and and and feel good and I'm enjoying it and it's just I'm I'm persistently trying to remind everyone around me at all times nobody's making like nobody can force you to be upset today like like at the end of the day you really can just it's really hard to say some people have horrible situations but right they're born into it actually but a lot of people in pretty good situations make you know their own little living hell fun but essentially just the idea that being happy I said I mean I believe you mentioned that you grew up Catholic or as part of it and Catholic guilt is a phrase that has been around in society so a lot of people just kind of internalized the idea that like being happy will have an equal and opposite negative at some point in life like people feel that like happiness is unsustainable it seems like this that's kind of the the general idea that I get from a lot of people but I personally just think I have I build my best relationships I do my best work when I'm happy or relative happiness you know so I'm curious kind of how you came around or did the Catholic guilt never quite stick for you and you've you know here's yeah I'm not here to speak for the Catholic Church but I can say this that whatever faith or whatever way of life you're raised in you know if that's the basis of your value system which it typically is there's good and bad and what I want of course is to try to do as much as possible the good sometimes I fail but I also know that life is full of ups and downs and I would like to be happy hundred percent of the time but I don't think the human individual is capable of a hundred percent happiness 24-7 I'm just saying you it's more like a trend as opposed to a complete ability so you want to be moving in the direction of happiness to feel like you have that hope to enjoy things in life and yet so you say you've been happier over the year yeah I feel I feel that way myself do I have my moments absolutely just like everyone else I have every every same same emotions that everyone else has you know and some of them they're all valid but the they aren't necessarily what you want at the time but you deal with it the best you can I think it's important to sustain yourself with good people around you too because there are moments when I maybe I can't handle something very well and someone else can and you talked about Kenzie and you and your decision-making with your business and so forth and I I thought of my my spouse how the same reason that we have come from a similar value system we have a complete opposite approach to it and with but I say to her is the same reason we get together and argue and disagree on things is the same reason why I think we make mostly good decisions and that's from a 360 degree look as opposed to a 180 look and that's all I'm saying is find that find something that you trust the other person and that trust sustains you during the difficult times that's about it and that's where that's where we have a very similar value set yeah but then it's just the approach to every every situation is just like it's almost like mind-blowing the first like handful of time and not even just with her it's with everyone right it's really kind of mind-blowing the first time you like see someone's thought process to a situation it's like I would have never considered that or gone there and you know sometimes it's better than the way like I currently thought about it sometimes it's like oh like it's the exchange of ideas really is the ultimate like goal of what kind of elevates all of a community or a family or you know humanity right and we know that there'll be times when it's just not gonna go the way it you would like it to go but in the end you just have to get through that time period and that comes from support as well as your own self mobilization you know your ability to pass something any examples of times in your life that have been like that like you know you feel okay talking about I assume in hindsight as far as you know be a difficult time you mean yeah you've been bringing it up a couple times I'm curious what that like when you're like you just got to get through it it's well I try to compare myself to my father and I think I have nothing to compare you know what he dealt with not and I gave you one example of his life but he grew up in a family of 11 children and when he was eight or nine he was actually given away to his aunt and uncle to raise him because they they didn't have enough food in the home and I didn't have that I grew up in a pretty solid environment even though he had some challenges for himself and I think my mother had to take on a lot more responsibility because of that but I admire her for that you know her ability to do that for myself I have the same disappointments everyone else has which is you know I didn't get a job I wanted or I didn't have I didn't get a good score in my tests that I wanted you know I I have the same or I didn't make that basket when I should have you know those are the things that come up on a daily basis that are sort of annoying looking back on it but it's right that's just the way it goes you know and hopefully you know I've had some times in my life that are I can't think of any that would be dramatic and other than the time I was dealing with my brother he he had juvenile diabetes and he was they were they actually needed to get a kidney transplant for him and so all of our all of his siblings tested for it and I happened to have the best match and so it's so this is 40 years ago now and so and so when you know it I'm 3,000 miles away everyone else is back there you know and I'm thinking to myself well you know if it's meant to be it is and but the problem was they assigned a doctor who was my advocate and he had an advocate and the idea was that you had to make sure you wanted to do this or else it would be one of those things that you'd regret and so I'll just tell you this much that I think it was about February March that we started the process and and the doctor kept questioning me and making sure that I was okay I was getting annoyed because it was taking so long you know and of course I had a cold right when it all started and about nine months eight months nine months later I finally said to the doctor you know I know you are playing my advocate to the ultimate but I'm gonna fire you I said that meaning I have to have another doctor because you're not letting me do this and I think I should and so that was a tough time for me dealing with that and after the operation my cold was gone so for nine months I had a cold and I realized it was all stress-related because what wondering when is this going to happen and having to put it off and then have to fly back of you know and actually they wanted to do it in Portland but I I said I'm not gonna take a chance of my kidney not making it back there and then and then being inserted so we laid next to each other back in Boston and that's when the operation took place that was a it affected you know my family and everyone else in it yeah so being in stress for nine months yeah much less right the end of it you run kidney down that's oh I didn't realize how much of it until I until the day after and I said my cold is gone you know mm-hmm so I said to myself that tells you what stress does yeah stresses it's working in the background it may not it may not be right there you're gonna you like your car is gonna hit something and you know it's gonna happen that's a different kind of stress but something that's operating in the background so that would be one example I have since that experience have you been able to recognize it better when you're under or is that the most extreme stress you've been under or like if well I do I'll give you another example like have you recognized it and been able to be like oh I think this is stress whereas yes I have to answer your question yes I have I mean that's again part of life's lessons you know you just learned what works and what doesn't yeah that's a good way to look at it it's a science you're right I was gonna say signs like signs are just being able to just hey maybe I'm avoiding thinking about something you know and maybe that's just cuz no I think you you have a good sense about it that's what I would say yeah yeah but we all have those stories you know it's not the same story for every person but we're all dealing with so from a health standpoint that was something that and I was only about 35 at the time so that's a big decision at 35 to give a kidney for a brother that's yeah surreal that's a situation most people will never experience right and I mean but most people would do it if they had the opportunity it's just that maybe it didn't come along so you don't maybe they did something else you know what I mean we all have something that we faced with you know so it seems like from because many times throughout this episode we're close to an hour you've mentioned values but you haven't explicitly said yours my guess if I were to like ad hoc after hearing all that you said say my guess is family and community would be pretty much your paramount and hope hope faith belief in a better belief in the things getting better and then community and family I'm curious if you have a third or if I'm if I'm you know how am I how my guess is I think you described pretty concisely exactly what most of my life has been like and I I feel like most people other than having differences in each of those would have the same story but I can't think of anything else off the top anyway that would make a difference in terms of values that the one thing I'll say about the community aspect was that my my commitment to the community whether it's through work or through public service was I always felt I was it was an extension of my family so I viewed that as my family also so the combination is really and everyone does it differently I know there's some people in the community that have the best-looking yards that you'd ever want to have which I don't have but they do and it adds beauty to the community that's not me but maybe I could help in a different way and so I found that's my interest in public service was in working through policies and procedures that made life better hopefully for the community and today you get you're getting to do that I'm doing this in my job by helping well my goal would be to help every business be successful and if they are successful that means they'll create jobs for other families and the community benefits because now you have healthy economic families that are able to move in a direction that they want to to make it a little bit more precise in what way do you help businesses succeed because that's a that's a very it's an open it's a very broad statement but the way I would do it is the way you do do it and well that's right you're right thank you for clarifying I would sit and listen to someone tell me about their business and what they want to do sometimes it's a startup sometimes it's an existing business and and then I'll just say you know what are the challenges you're having about that and then they'll tell me and then sometimes I I may have some ideas that they hadn't thought of that make a difference sometimes I don't but I will say in every case they can count on me being able to provide insights that they might not have had and maybe even connections with parties that can help them further their goals and and that's what I get my enjoyment out of the current position I'm in it's one of the most joyous things in life is connecting two people when you know it'll benefit their life and it reflects well on you to both of them because you connected them it's truly one of the like the most like subtle but like profound joys in life is like this would benefit everyone if you two got together and it doesn't always work sometimes you introduce them and even though it's seemingly a perfect match there are slightly different fields or like interests or you know it's it's it doesn't always work but when it when it does work and you know it's it's really beautiful well I'm glad you feel that way because that's you summarized it very well thank you yeah closing thought this is my first episode back it's so this is sorry if I was a little rough and tumble you're very well spoken I have one question for you though okay all right eye contact I think when we met at Lane Small Business Development Center fair you had an amount of eye contact that I don't normally get much in life part of the reason I started the show was I didn't aside from Kenzie I wasn't just sitting and talking to people like people just don't sit and talk to people very much anymore where we're not like checking the phone or eating or like some distraction but on the show you've had a level of like less eye contact some people do none the whole show right which is an oddity but you clearly are comfortable with eye contact I'm curious if there's just a level of deep thought oh here I go yeah I think part of part of my thinking on that is I'm trying to think of how to respond if I'm just having a natural conversation with you and I know you're trying to set it up that way and that's a good format I think but I'm not necessary practiced in what I'm doing and I'm trying to think through how can I say it in a way that makes sense to not just you but your listeners you know and so it causes me to look to the side to give myself focus on how can I say this you know whereas opposed to having just a conversation with you no cameras yeah so how could I do you think better achieve that goal of that because that is my intended goal right because who listens to this it's it's it's it's I mean the most impactful person who could listen this podcast would be your grandkid in 30 years yeah and be like wow and just just that familial connection yeah you know like the reason I'm doing this is tenfold documentarian of people and their place in life for some people it's not working or getting ideas out for everyone it's different but my intended goal is just to document an authentic just conversation of two people sitting in a location okay like are you cut is there enough room this is my previous room with the you know the episode you watched we had more room behind us so I'm a little bit closer to the wall I wanted you to have some room are you comfortable in here I'm comfortable in this space yeah and then yeah some people might not be but I am and let's see I'm not sure how I could help you make sure others have just you know me yeah what may have made a difference maybe the topic I should have started with personal and then transition I think that would have helped yeah again I'm a little it's been a whole year since it's okay and I'm you know I'm much more able to talk more personally like most human beings than I am professionally but I'll say that would help mm-hmm it would get me probably started on the right foot mm-hmm that that's a good time I'm not sure what else you could do other than say upfront to someone you know you just explained to me why you're trying to do this and and that helps me understand why it's important that I paid look to you when I'm talking that's probably the best thing you can do because it's a starting place for people and then in the end you're learning what works for most people I think none not just but then start with a personal so I would say those two steps are probably gonna help you with other people beautiful I appreciate that I've workshopped what to tell people before the show so many times and some like just sometimes it can be read wrong and then people think it's a certain thing so it's really hard because it's not only am I confirming hey do you have time to meet to people do you also have time to meet in person and are you okay recording it right and it like so it's like there's so many checks right to get someone on a like on an episode and just communication has such an opportunity to create confusion right and my main goal with communication is to reduce confusion and just you know so it's it's the pre like preamble I will I'm gonna give it another attempt of just saying does that what you mean by preamble yeah yeah maybe what I text you about the show or what I tell you or before we start hearing just and he's anything that's setting the stage because I will say diversity of ideas not telling people anything about it right how I've played off of some people's energy like some people just take the reins they're like they've been waiting for an opportunity to be on there they've just been dying for it I'm like cool you can do whatever you want with it like you have a video recording of yourself and I've learned and I've actually adjusted what I do on the show because of them so it's an interesting thing of leaving that open right by not kind of defining what I want it to be right because yeah it's not necessarily an interview although the goal of it is to get your ideas like you see your story for maybe some ground like grounding about who you are but really it's like your way of thinking you know just capturing that I think is right goes back to the exchange of information that's what helps people have better lives the end you got a couple of nuggets in here I appreciate it thank you for coming on thank you for talking to Sharon yeah that was a it was a joy okay well thank you for asking me and hopefully I'll be anxious to hear where you go with your business you know because you've given me some insight as to what you're trying to do and I know you have to physically move as your next major step but after that hopefully you'll be in a position to grow your business appreciate it yeah it's it's an interesting situation my quip is nothing's for sale because a lot of people have been like hey can I buy some but I didn't buy and then die at all just to trade it back for money I just traded money to put it into this because cotton doesn't go bad right it's funny vintage teas are actually worse significantly more although I'm not surprised I know it's people really crave that texture I'm curious if you feel like this kind of cotton shirt just like it's just thick it's comfortable it's comfortable that's what I would say mm-hmm the word is comfortable because I can't I remember this guy when I first came to Cottage Grove 50 years ago I went in to get some shoes you know and he said do you do you want some socks with those shoes and I said oh no I got socks he said well do you have the kind that are you know you buy at the store that are polyester polyester and so forth I said yeah how did you know he says well most people do mm-hmm and he says well what I have is cotton yeah and I said yeah but cotton doesn't last as long he said yeah but it's a lot more comfortable it breathes and he says what he said he said you'll come back to me in ten years and you'll want cotton yeah that's what he said to me and did you are you well I do now yeah I choose I prefer that I when I say cotton it's it may be a mixture a mix I don't I don't look yeah I have more natural socks I'll use that so I would say January of this year I didn't own any I wore mostly hand-me-downs yeah I wore I had no idea the makeup or none of no specific brand I wore random clothes but I had a chronic physical pain oh and I started wearing just cotton shirts and it's purely the the breathability the heat retention would cause me to start messing with it and then activating the muscle would generate heat yeah which would then get trapped again huh and I didn't know I was trying to find all these are my dehydrated what's the cause of this chronic physical it's not pain what I deal with that with earlier before I went to school was pain this is more of just like a motor tic or like an annoyance or fatigue I said it was for a couple of years and then so finding the answer to that well was so like transformational of like oh this can not only my comfort my just because when I'm comfortable I just feel better I'm not thinking about something something isn't distracting my thought when I'm comfortable and especially the ability to like the fact that it removed pain in my life was I'm like oh this is this has value this is you know what is value value is something that improves people's lives right that that's a good way to look at it but they have to understand that value I mean you can say all you want but if they don't get it it's you know this value and maybe science knows this value but if they don't get it then they're not gonna buy because they have to understand it so that's the secret I think how do you help people see that what you have is gonna help them mm-hmm yeah it's really tricky because I mean marketer it's I think about all the time but specifically online you can't tell someone how it feels right you just can't right and every company is like we have a super soft and then you look at the materials and it's a hundred percent polyester and it's just it's it's not the same fortunately the designs that have been adding to them look high quality enough that people have a lot of interest in purchasing them and then I have the faith that then them having a hundred percent cotton that's of substantial quality will then make them want to get more later on when are you gonna sell those are are you those right there are ones that have picked off but the amount I think about the amount of time and energy would take to you know wrap it up wrap it up ship it shipping costs but essentially the majority of them I want to keep because my real driving goal is to find an existing manufacturer that has the workers they have the place because I mean this is smart yeah this is one person with a small backyard made over 500 pieces where the entire the entire article of clothing has designs on it and it's it's significantly higher than tie-dye I did some tie-dye as examples because like that's what a manufacturer should probably base it against most people have like a hippie association with tie-dye or whatever it is but essentially if you just look at the fidelity of like tie-dye gets kind of blurry I see that and this doesn't and it doesn't it goes down to the individual level and it's takes a tenth of the amount of time and the actual like taking a clothing and then altering it it costs significantly less because tie-dye you have to let it sit for 24 hours the dye is expensive you have to soak it in soda ash so the the fibers react whereas I've just everyone's fear-based not bleaching clothes or they bleach it in a certain way but I just saw this glimmer of what it could look like and it's just been this progression of every single one that I did it'd be in a different method or a slightly different way and it just kind of built out into being this thing where I could reliably and consistently get designs that all looked quite different and so those are hoodies if you believe it or not no but like oh I see yeah this as like clothing like it just it doesn't necessarily exist on the market you can have polyester that's printed with like a faux design but then at the seams like it won't match up so it's the fact that this is like it's I've created a new thing for the marketplace and I don't want to rush into exchanging it back for US dollar like I put all the energy and time into exchanging US dollar for this you know do you have it patented I don't think it's a patentable idea I don't know that it is or it isn't that's why I'm asking and your technique might be that's why I'm asking um funny enough I'd I'd almost teach it out of the just like I'd open source it like I'd meet the manufacturer and say I'd love to just like teach you this and then I'd love to clearly this should show my drive and passion for this industry I don't think that this is the tip like the edge of the iceberg like this isn't the end of my knowledge like I say if if I have more like capacity to to test and to try new things I mean I've done all this without even sewing or hemming or anything like much much less like cutting and adding like these things so clothing just took me out of the blue I was always digital my whole life I I wrote like a book and a screenplay I put an album out like I was in a music I was into writing video really took me and then that's the one that actually could make a career with so this is my first physical venture and it's it's really rewarding in the sense that nothing that I've ever done people have been able to hold in their hands nothing people nothing's created as much of a positive feedback of people are just like out in the blue just like just down the world of like can I get that or where can I get that um well let me tell you why I'm asking the question because I don't really know a lot but I would just say I would talk to a patent attorney and just see if if it is reasonable but in the end you created an idea you're you're the entrepreneur I was describing and um by the way who did this I made the table it's that's awesome I appreciate that yeah all my life I've just been consistently aren't funny R&Ding whatever I've been I've been had at my at my disposal so I made this five or six years ago so the epoxy on top starting to crack I think right there so you know it'll it'll have to be replaced at some point in life but but yeah well it's funny that is it on paper or is it on cloth this is a butcher block yeah um and then I took acrylic paint oh with oh it's right on the block right on the block and then epoxy over it okay yeah it's funny I'm just now putting together how similar of kind of a design pattern these have and that comes from I didn't just before I bleached before I bleached I would screen print so I make designs I put them on screens and then I put them all over clothes and like this is glow in the dark some of it's reflective where it's actually like the light will shine back at you this is so laborsome to do oh it's it's I mean I could do 25 things where the entire thing has a design in the same amount of time it would take me to do two or three I see articles of clothing like this yeah and clearly like I had a path I had to drive to cover the whole thing in some way yeah so this was just like oh hey I figured out how to scale it because for years people were like you should figure out how to scale clothing and I'm like no I'm just doing it because I want the clothes that I wear I want to them to be unique and you're like mine right and then I would gift them to people like the ones that I'm like that one slightly doesn't fit me this or that um but then the bleach and then the highest quality ones I'm just going to add a couple designs onto such as you know this is a yeah this is a bleached article of clothing but then it has a couple like so they're all tests and at the end of the day um with the patent office I think someone could try reverse engineering but there's a bleach has existed and clothing has existed for a long time there's the reason why someone hasn't made this um I don't know I it blows my mind it took a lot of tooling around and playing with it I I had probably 30 piece 30 shirts that had holes in it and rips because the bleach would eat away at it yes so it took a long time to first off realize how to make it so the bleach wouldn't do that affected yeah affected yeah so yeah no it's it's it is my driving passion in life I am that I am that um entrepreneur in a way oh yeah I would say um well again the reason why I brought that up is if you didn't want to get into the actual manufacturing of it but you could find someone that would do that that you take a percentage of everything that they sell as opposed to you know it just becomes a source of income for you well that's a good size looks good on you I appreciate it this is one of the earlier ones I guess that is my goal and my hope was the goodwill in people a lot of my most profitable like business relationships started by doing free work for them or like coming with value in the hand um teaching people so they could teach their team certain things so my hope was that that's possible in the retail world but it might be too large a scale it might need to be but I don't I don't know if it'd be like the time and energy it would take to patent it to like be like make sure no one can do this when it so you know like it's it's a very interesting nebulous kind of concept of how what I should do or the other idea is just to set up a consulting business and you are paid for your knowledge and you're hired by certain companies to provide them with that expertise that might be another way to take advantage of your knowledge because that's what it is it's knowledge uh people people don't know about it or they don't have the ability to create something that good and you've got examples of it and that's they're always looking for something yeah that's part of the reason I'm not selling all of them or the majority of them is I'm like well I don't want to yeah I change it back and then it's like ah like the whole goal of it is to show that it's like one person can do this level of scale and the amount of mess-ups I have is so low so it's like like all these ways that would speak to a manufacturer and a like a scale facility like I'm trying like speak in terms of like hey like financially makes sense less labor less cost like the actual material um it's a new thing in the marketplace that has so I'm going to sell some to show that there's a proven market for them but yeah I'm excited to update you where I do go with it yeah I well and the other thought I had I mean just I don't want to keep you from doing what you're trying to do but I I'm thinking of it was one of the thought I had you had oh do you ever read have you ever read Dr. Seuss um yeah and just if you can move the mic you can move but if you just move the mic with you oh I'm on live yeah we still we haven't cut it if you're hey I'm like you know I didn't know okay well I'm just saying to you um Dr. Seuss Dr. Seuss do you read okay there's a story in one of his books it's a great story for you because of what you're trying to do with your shirts um it's about the star bellied snitches okay and uh I wish I had a copy of it with me because I don't remember all the details I just remember this um people are attracted to certain things and the people who have the money and power can get what they want it seems like and so one day oh sorry I'm actually you can manhand you can grab it and go like this okay I tell you at the end sorry so I'll just say one day this guy comes to town he has this machine with him and in this town there's two kinds of people the ones that have it all and the ones that don't have much and you see that in life so it just appears that way anyway so he's he says to the people without their heads are down they're they're they're miserable in life and he says so what's wrong you know and they said well you see those other guys over there you notice they have stars in their bellies and they're going around with their heads up in the air and they're telling everyone how great they are and so forth well we want to be more like them so so he says well I can help you with that and they said really how well you just give me a dollar and then you come into my machine and when you come out of the other end of the machine you'll have a star in your belly just like those guys so the first guy goes in he does that and he comes down wow I'm like these guys and my head goes up and all of a sudden the world looks hopeful and I'm excited and so one of his friends comes over and says what happened to you and he says well I'm not like you anymore I'm like them and he said I know but how did you do that he says you see that guy over there in the machine you just give him a buck and then you go through the machine and so he's okay so he

A follow up to the episode that we ended the show with when we went on a hiatus.

This episode is the equivalent of a deep track

Freedom

Turns out the story we well ourselves is important. Robert comes on the show for a second appearance - initially invited so I could ask him for personal business advice, but the show ended up being mostly about how we label ourselves, and the impact of the story we tell ourselves.

I beat Jeremy at chess right after we recorded this.

Morgan came on the show very serendipitously, I met him via zoom a day before he was flying to Oregon, when we met it turns out his logical brother lived where Kenzie and I do right now, and he was just overall a very enjoyable person to talk with.

Zac is the Director and Co-host of the Now You Know Youtube Channel.   This episode was originally recorded for the Arcimoto Podcast while Zac was in town taking a tour of the factory for a video on the Now You Know channel.

Josh Cliffords is the CEO and founder of Freewater, the first negatively priced company.   Kenzie and I flew to Austin Texas for this episode and one more we recorded while we were there that will come out next month.

Matthew kicks off the episode with a bang, talking about what happened the day someone pulled out in front of him with no time to stop. And near the end of the episode he tells the story of what it was like to have the rug pulled out from under him one day before a big purchase went through. A well spoken, fascinating man who talks about his unique life experiences honestly and in an entertaining way. A mixture that makes for a great episode.

Hector comes on the show for a third time!   We talk about gay culture in 2022 along with Hector's run in with death and what it was like to be revived.

Charles is a longtime family friend. We talk about his experience with Lyme disease, his love for hunting, western medicine, and how to avoid shooting yourself in the knee.    The audio for this episode got messed up, my laptop was maxing out it's CPU so the audio randomly clips. I got a new computer since so future episodes will not have this fuzzy audio bug. 

Nitai's passion is supporting individuals in removing limiting beliefs and trauma so they can fully BE themselves. At the age of 28, she lost her father and aunt (who was like a second mother), within a year of each other to terminal cancer. Taking on the role of caregiver to her father in his final months led her to explore how she could assist others in times of death and transformation.  In the following years, Nitai received her Masters's in Gender and Sexuality from Trinity College Dublin, her yoga teaching and Women's Holistic Sexual Health certifications. Her work with trauma and resilience includes crisis counseling at the Dublin Rape Crisis Center, and group curriculum building and facilitating at a dual diagnosis outpatient drug rehab center. She currently creates and leads workshops on resilience, grief recovery, and sexuality & identity and supports people through transitions through guidance sessions and private psychedelic healing journeys. Learn more at her website: www.sheisbornoffire.com  Connect with Nitai on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sheisbornoffire/

Coincidentally my podcast goes on hiatus ending with the same guest as last time. Kenzie and I are embarking on a month-long work trip for Arcimoto, so here's the last recorded episode of the show before we embark tomorrow morning. Named the episode Leaving cause Ariel is also leaving Eugene, in a couple of months she'll be heading to Puerto Rico.   This is her second, but sorta third appearance on the show, she's an all-around rockstar who helps entrepreneurs but is moving toward more creative work as a break from the fast paced life of start-ups.

Donny is a new friend and first-time guest on the show. He comes on and shares some tales from his life alongside takes on classic topics. 

Colton comes on the show for the first time and brings an interesting smokable herb that I've never heard of. He's worked a lot in the outdoors but is making a switch to creating digital media. (This episode had a technical difficulty that resulted in the audio coming out sounding different than my typical episode. Kenzie and I realized while editing, so he was back in Portland by the time we realized. The problem was located and the audio of the next show will be back to normal. Anyway, apologies for the sub-par audio on this one.) Enjoy the CBD we smoke on the show at: https://metoliushemp.com/collections/cannaclubs/products/5-cannaroll-club

Rob comes back on the show for his second appearance. We talk about all that he's been up to since we last spoke, weeks after he overcomes covid!   This episode has a couple of visual aspects, Rob and I both dressed up drank tequila while filming this ep, if you get curious you can see what it looks like on youtube by searching this show.   Smoke the CBD joints we enjoy on the show: https://metoliushemp.com/collections/cannaclubs/products/5-cannaroll-club

Second podcast in a row where I split the show between two guests, this time with a dynamic duo traveling the states and visiting all National Parks in a sweet home on wheels. This is Asher's second appearance on the show, last time he was heavy into music, and he's got some new interests to speak about this episode. First episode for Violet where we get to meet and hear her story for the first time! They'll be back in Eugene a couple times a year and I'll make sure to catch them and hear their recent travels when they are.   If you have strong feelings one way or another about the split-up shows, reach out and let me know if you want more of them or less. These were completely unplanned and occurring back to back was just a fun surprise, but I'm curious how folks who listen feel about it!   Follow their Jouney by tuning into their instagram! Violet: https://www.instagram.com/violetelectra/ Asher: https://www.instagram.com/asherliptz/    Smoke the CBD we enjoy on the show: https://metoliushemp.com/collections/cannaclubs/products/5-cannaroll-club 

This show was wildly unexpected, the original guest showed up with two friends and we end up having the guest switch every 20 minutes so each person gets to speak for a third of the show!   Follow Bele on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/belleroseimage/

Rick Dancer is an independent journalist that reports on businesses around the West Coast. Previously he was the news anchor for Eugene's KEZI channel and switched out to pursue politics.   Rick comes on the show for his third appearance to give an update on where he's at in life and regale us with some stories from the past year since we last spoke.

Micahel is a part of Starve Ups and John Friess' CBD company which makes the joints we smoke on most episodes. He comes on the show to talk about his life & what he's up to. Enjoy the joints we smoke on the show at: https://metoliushemp.com/collections/cannaclubs/products/5-cannaroll-club

Weston was one of the first guests on the show, and he comes back on two years later to give an update on his wild life.   Smoke the CBD joints we enjoy on the show at: https://metoliushemp.com/collections/cannaclubs/products/5-cannaroll-club

Drew is a fellow reader of OG mandino's Greatest Salesman In The World book, but he lives the morals far closer than I. He comes on the show to give insight into his life experience.

Zubair is my neighbor and best friend. He comes on the show after a week spent at burning man.   We get to talk about all the fun stuff involved while wearing a green suit & getting a green screen involved!

This is Katie's second appearance on the show, the last time she was on she owned a clothing brand. She has since pivoted to real estate as a living, with a focus on reforming mental health as her passion project.

Nate comes on the show for his second appearance and plays a song as the outro to the show.    Between his first and second appearance, he was pursuing acupuncture in Portland Oregon but paused to pursue another journey.

Richard is the head of the Physics department at the University of Oregon.   He has spent decades studying nanoelectronics, neuroscience, retinal implants, solar cells, visual science of fractals.   -This episode was filmed a couple of months ago before I had a stable studio, the audio cuts out halfway through and the rest was recorded via backup thanks to Ariel's phone. She was the stand-in producer for this show.

Robert Killen is the Director of Lane County's Small Business Development Center. He comes on the show to speak about his work and give insight into how local economies work.   Learn more about Robert's work and reach out to him via: https://lanesbdc.com

Jordan comes back on the show to reconnect and tell some lively stories since we last spoke.   Smoke the CBD joints we enjoy on the show: https://metoliushemp.com/collections/cannaclubs/products/5-cannaroll-club

Will studies the importance of play in youth and is an advocate for better recess.     

Nathan comes on the show for his second appearance and we catch up on what we've been up to since we last spoke.   Reach out to Nathan and find his music via: https://www.instagram.com/natermctater/   Smoke the CBD joints we enjoy on the show at: https://metoliushemp.com/collections/cannaclubs/products/5-cannaroll-club 

Tyler is a fellow Podcaster, hosting two shows of his own. Always a joy to share space and have a conversation with.   Listen to Tyler's pods at - beingthisperson.com ruinedheroes.com   Order the CBD joints we smoke at: https://metoliushemp.com/collections/cannaclubs/products/5-cannaroll-club

George Espino is an enigma with a lot to say, all of it in a wonderfully fun & charismatic way.   Follow George on Insta: https://www.instagram.com/georun23/   Smoke the joints we light up in this episode at: https://metoliushemp.com/collections/cannaclubs/products/5-cannaroll-club

Alex Dunn is a guitarist who played on my album and recorded the outro for the first 113 episodes of the show.   The title is a joke, he specifically didn't want to have a controversial episode so we just have fun and talk about the usual suspects.   Order the joints we smoke on the show: https://metoliushemp.com/collections/cannaclubs/products/5-cannaroll-club

Cedric is one bad motha-F-A and comes on the show to have a good time. Order the Metolius CBD pre-rolls we smoke on the show at: https://metoliushemp.com/collections/cannaclubs/products/5-cannaroll-club 

Kartik grew up in the bay area and recently moved to Eugene to work with a cool electric vehicle company. He's primarily working to better the user experience of multiple businesses including a website he is helping create for home bakers to take the next step toward becoming a full business.   Kartik's website: https://www.curedketchup.com/   Order the Metolius CBD pre-rolls we smoke on the show at: https://metoliushemp.com/collections/cannaclubs/products/5-cannaroll-club 

Thomas comes on the show after a large life event & we break bread after the covid break.   order the Metolius CBD pre-rolls we smoke on the show at: https://metoliushemp.com/collections/cannaclubs/products/5-cannaroll-club

Back from the break! A lot has changed, so I have some old friends and veterans of the show on to make it feel familiar for my first couple of episodes back. Now with video on Youtube! Order the CBD pre-rolls we smoke on the show here: https://metoliushemp.com/collections/cannaclubs/products/5-cannaroll-club   If you work at Liquid Death: give me a sponsorship of free cans to drink on the show, no $ needed 

My last episode was 6 months ago in July, and since then I got an extra mic and cameras. This was my first attempt to film a podcast and switch between guests the whole time. I was way too distracted and will be finding an extra person to switch during the show. Episodes aren't resuming, but this was a fun mid-pandemic podcast with a couple of degenerates I love.