They Call Us Bruce

Jeff and Phil welcome Michael Luo, executive editor at The New Yorker and author of the book Strangers in the Land: Exclusion, Belonging, and the Epic Story of the Chinese in America, a sweeping narrative history of the Chinese in America, and their more than century-long struggle to belong in the face of bigotry, persecution, exclusion and racial terror. Michael talks about the real-life racist incident that partially inspired the project; the complexities and quirks of Chinese American immigration history; some of the fascinating stories and characters he uncovered during his research for Strangers in the Land; and the alarming parallels between past and current debates on immigration, citizenship, and our multiracial democracy.

Jeff and Phil welcome Dolly Li, documentary filmmaker, journalist and cultural consultant on Ryan Coogler's epic vampire blockbuster Sinners. They discuss Dolly's documentary on The Untold Story of America's Southern Chinese, and the deep-rooted origins of the Mississippi Delta's Chinese American community; how Ryan Coogler's own family connection to the Delta Chinese inspired the Chinese characters in Sinners; and how Dolly worked with the filmmakers to make the movie historically accurate and authentic as possible -- right down to that one horny line of Chinese dialogue. And of course, they offer their own hot takes on Sinners.

Jeff and Phil welcome director Jennifer Lin and producer Jon Funabiki to talk about their documentary Ten Times Better and the incredible untold story of George Lee, a pioneering dancer with an unheralded place in ballet and Broadway history. They discuss the sensational skill and artistry that landed George the role he originated in The Nutcracker with the New York City Ballet; the filmmakers' search for the former dance prodigy that tracked him down in Las Vegas, where he was working in relative obscurity as a blackjack dealer; the ongoing struggle for recognition and inclusion in the performing arts; and the film's efforts to honor and preserve George's story, especially in this moment as diverse narratives face the threat of suppression and erasure.  

It's May, and that means it's AANHPI Heritage Month -- possibly the last one ever, if certain people get their way. Jeff and Phil check in and discuss the significance of Heritage Month, reflecting on community resilience, cultural celebrations, and the challenges faced by Asian Americans in this moment. By way of The Good, The Bad, and The WTF, they explore the impact of recent events on mental health within the community, the ongoing importance of representation in media, and the troubling perceptions of Asian Americans in U.S. society as revealed by recent surveys. 

Jeff and Phil welcome back their old pals Rebecca Sun and Dino-Ray Ramos to talk about The Wedding Banquet, writer/director Andrew Ahn's contemporary re-envisioning of Ang Lee's 1993 beloved romantic comedy, starring Bowen Yang, Kelly Marie Tran, Lily Gladstone, and Han Gi-Chan. The big question: does this remake justify its existence? They discuss the film's fresh take on LGBTQ+ themes and family dynamics; some of the more questionable but necessary narrative turns; and why Joan Chen and Youn Yuh-jung are Asian American cinema royalty. 

Jeff and Phil welcome Dr. Michael L. Wong, an astrobiologist, planetary scientist and podcaster who studies planetary atmospheres, habitability, biosignatures, and the emergence of life. And Star Trek. He talks about his involvement in the Stand Up for Science protests, the intersection of science, activism, and the challenges faced by the scientific community, particularly in light of recent budget cuts to space exploration and other STEM fields, and the broader implications of stifling diversity in science.

In this rewind episode, we dip back into the archives and revisit Phil and Jeff's 2024 conversation with friend, journalist and fellow podcaster Ada Tseng about her Los Angeles Times piece which asked and answered a very important question: Which are the "most Asian" Costcos in Southern California? They discuss why the wholesale chain holds a particular appeal for Asian American shoppers, the specialty items you can only find at the Most Asian Costcos, and the spiritual journey of purchasing Kirkland clothing. Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of Costco.

Jeff and Phil welcome actress Ji-young Yoo, star of Freaky Tales and Expats. She talks about the cathartic act of fictionally beating the crap out of some Nazis; capturing the specific fun and weird ("Bay shit") vibes of 1987 Oakland, from her punk wig to nailing the accent in Freaky Tales; feeling and sense of belonging in Hong Kong and acting toe-to-toe with the likes of Nicole Kidman for her breakthrough role in Expats; and how her career journey may or may not include going back to take those two last credits to finish college. Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of making Freaky Tales.

Jeff and Phil welcome Vicki Tan, digital product designer and author of Ask This Book a Question: An Interactive Journey to Find Wisdom for Life's Big and Little Decisions, a one-of-a-kind guide to smarter decision-making based in the science of cognitive bias and the wisdom of storytelling. Vicki shares her journey of writing the book, the significance of diversity in storytelling, and how her background in product design informs her approach to helping others navigate life's big and small questions -- including that immediate, persistent question: what should we have for dinner tonight? (Answer: mapo tofu, of course.)

Jeff and Phil discuss the evil, manipulative, and highly organized world of online scams with journalists Nelson Wang, who became the target of a "pig butchering" crypto scam, and Denise Chan, host of the Wondery podcast Scam Factory, which exposes the brutal reality behind these ripoff operations. There's a scam for everybody. They talk about the increasingly creative and sophisticated ways that scammers prey on their victims, how that scammer on the other side might actually be a victim of a scam themselves—trafficked and trapped—and the bizarre corporate infrastructure behind some of these scam factories. Pizza party!

Jeff and Phil welcome veteran actor Stephen Park, who discusses his iconic roles in projects like Do the Right Thing, Fargo, and In Living Color; the racist incident on the set of Friends that inspired his viral 1997 mission statement on Asian American representation in Hollywood; the ongoing challenges he's faced as a person of color in the industry; and a reconciliation of sorts with his own Korean identity, thanks to working with cool directors like Bong Joon-ho. Also: the unintended complexities of being known as Steve versus Stephen.

Jeff and Phil welcome comedian and actor Asif Ali, star of the Hulu crime comedy series Deli Boys. They discuss evolution of South Asian roles from stereotypes to complex characters, and how the show puts a chaotic, hilarious twist on the mini-mart narrative. Asif talks about his professional journey in comedy, how he had to create his own opportunities (including some not-entirely-truthful hustling by Asif's manager, aka his brother), and why it's okay to NOT be chill about seeing yourself on a billboard. Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of making Deli Boys.

Jeff and Phil welcome veteran actor Dustin Nguyen, star of the indie crime drama The Accidental Getaway Driver, a uniquely Vietnamese American story -- inspired by true events -- surprisingly told as a humanistic character study. He talks about the rage, hurt and loneliness of his character; his decades-spanning career journey and the evolution of his roles in Hollywood, from 21 Jump Street to V.I.P.; and his transition to filmmaking in Vietnam (and back). Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of making The Accidental Getaway Driver.

Jeff and Phil welcome diversity advocates and experts Mia Ives-Rublee and Sumi Pendakur to discuss the impact of the current political climate on Asian American activism and identity. They talk about the importance of diversity in higher education in shaping identities and worldviews, the assault on diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives in the wake of Trump's executive orders, the challenges of leadership in uncertain times, and the alarming normalization of extremist ideologies. Also: pre-emptive chickenshit, Nazi salutes, and dangerous dumplings.  

Jeff and Phil continue their celebration of Fresh Off the Boat's 10th anniversary and welcome writer Sanjay Shah (Everybody Still Hates Chris, Dream Productions, Central Park) and director Jude Weng (Finding Ohana, The Good Place, Only Murders in the Building) -- key creatives involved in the making of the groundbreaking series. They look back at the impact of the show on their careers, some of the challenges and critiques they faces during production, and the importance of storytelling from an Asian American perspective. Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of making Fresh Off the Boat.

Phil and Jeff celebrate the 10th anniversary of Fresh Off the Boat with series star Hudson Yang (who also happens to be Jeff's son). They reflect on the show's impact on their family, Hudson's journey from childhood aspirations to landing a lead role, and the significance of the show in reshaping narratives around Asian Americans in media. They look back at the audition process, the challenges of navigating fame and public scrutiny as a child actor, and the lasting (and perhaps unsung) legacy of the series. Also: that time Hudson almost got fired from Fresh Off the Boat before it even got started.

It's the Year of the Snake! In this special Lunar New Year episode, Jeff and Phil welcome fellow Potluck Podcast pals -- and fellow parents -- Ada Tseng (Saturday School), Joanna Lee (Sound and Fury, The Korean Drama Podcast), and Marvin Yueh (Books and Boba, Good Pop) to celebrate new beginnings and the arrival of Marvin's twins while discussing the unique challenges of Asian American parenting. They explore the importance of cultural representation in children's media, the significance of language and heritage, and the realities of sleep deprivation and collaborative parenting strategies.   

Jeff and Phil welcome Eileen Chow, Professor and Director of Graduate Studies at Duke University's Asian/Pacific Studies Institute, and Ava Chin, CUNY professor and author of Mott Street: A Chinese American Family's Story of Exclusion and Homecoming, to talk about birthright citizenship, a fundamental right enshrined in the Constitution, now under attack (again) by the Trump administration. They talk about their anger in this moment, who is really under attack -- not rich white folks! -- in this latest attempt to revoke birthright citizenship, the landmark precedent set by United States v. Wong Kim Ark, and why the lessons of history must be constantly learned and re-learned.

Jeff and Phil welcome friends, author/podcaster R Scott Okamoto and filmmaker/professor Renee Tajima-Pena to share their reflections on the devastating wildfires that have ravaged parts of greater Los Angeles. Scott shares about the terrifying experience of evacuating from the approaching inferno, while Renee recounts her efforts to save her family's treasures and traditions. The discuss the profound loss for the history and community of Altadena and the incredible heart in Los Angeles's response to this moment.

Jeff and Phil welcome Harrison Xu and Ivan Leung, the directors/writers/producers/stars of Extremely Unique Dynamic,  a "Meta-Asian-Stoner-Coming-of-Age-Bromantic Dramedy" about two best friends who decide to make a movie... about two guys making a movie... about two guys making a movie. They talk about making a buddy narrative to showcase their friendship and talent, how they managed to sneak in a celebrity cameo from Hudson Yang (as himself!) and  the unanticipated low-budget/high-effort costs when you make an indie project. Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of making Extremely Unique Dynamic.

Jeff and Phil welcome back the crew — Rebecca Sun and Dino-Ray Ramos — to discuss season two of the global sensation Squid Game, which is officially Netflix's most watched show ever. In what is quite possibly this podcast's longest episode ever, they discuss the return and evolution of some fan-favorite characters, their least favorite new characters, the biggest new twists in the deadly game, and whether or not Gong Yoo gets worthwhile screen time in his return as the mysterious Recruiter. And of course: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of Squid Game Season 2.

Jeff and Phil welcome showrunner/producer Echo Wu and writer Jade Chang, key creatives behind the Netflix animated series Jentry Chau vs. The Underworld, starring Ali Wong. They talk about creating a uniquely Asian American young adult action/horror/supernatural family drama; melding Asian mythology and folklore with contemporary youth culture (complete with a playlist) to tell a multi-layered story; and how to keep your cool (and failing miserably) while working with a K-pop idol. Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of making Jentry Chau vs. The Underworld.

Jeff and Phil welcome comedian Ronny Chieng to discuss his latest Netflix special Love to Hate It. He talks about his efforts to harvest his wife's eggs (with no medical training whatsoever), the frustrating susceptibility of baby boomers to internet scams, his near-decade-long tenure as a correspondent on The Daily Show, and why the only career move he's concerned with is crafting the next joke. Plus: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of making Love to Hate It.

Jeff and Phil welcome filmmaker Sue Kim, director/producer of The Last of the Sea Women, a documentary about the haenyeo, a fierce community of South Korean divers fighting the save their vanishing culture from looming threats. She talks about her lifelong fascination with this "badass girl gang," her drive to tell the stories of unique subcultures like Korea's mermaids and competitive Rubik's cube solvers, and how to film a documentary about free divers when you're actually not a very good swimmer. Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of making The Last of the Sea Women.

Jeff and Phil welcome filmmaker Jean Shim and actress Jae Suh Park, director and star of the independent drama A Great Divide -- also co-written and produced by our very own Jeff Yang. They talk about making a movie inspired by the contemporary backdrop of anti-Asian hate, the personal experiences with racism and xenophobia that informed the film's story and characters, the quirks and challenges of shooting in the wilds of Wyoming, and why it's convenient to have a doctor on set -- especially if that doctor is Ken Jeong. Also: a special bonus edition of "Pass, Fail, Incomplete, and Fail," sponsored by McDonald's APA Next.

Jeff and Phil welcome writer Charles Yu, showrunner/executive producer of the Hulu series Interior Chinatown, adapted from his award-winning novel of the same name. They discuss the challenges of taking a somewhat indescribable and seemingly un-adaptable book and adapting it into a 10-episode prestige series; how Interior Chinatown is actually like Pokemon; and the fun of deconstructing the TV tropes of the police procedural "Chinatown Episode."

Jeff and Phil talk turkey in their semi-traditional annual observation of thanks and giving, and welcome comedians Joe Wong and Sierra Katow to talk comedy, careers and these troubled times. They talk about coming from very different -- parentally-supported versus culturally nonexistent -- standup traditions, the stereotypes that still hound them, and the future (or perhaps lack thereof) of our democracy. Also, a very special Thanksgiving edition of The Good, The Bad, and The WTF.

Jeff and Phil welcome co-creator/executive producer Rachel Kondo and writer/co-executive prodicer Shannon Goss of Shōgun, now one of the most acclaimed television shows of all time. They talk about setting out to adapt the original novel with a different, shifted perspective, the complicated multi-step script-to-screen process of translating the show from English to Japanese and back, and getting the band back together to write another season. Also: a healing moment, a magical falcon, Zombieko, and The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of making Shōgun.

In this special live episode, Jeff (minus Phil) talks to acclaimed playwright David Henry Hwang about his trailblazing work, including Yellow Face, currently on Broadway at the Roundabout Theatre. He talks about the mind-boggling play-within-a-play inception of Yellow Face, what it's like to write a version of yourself ("DHH") into your show -- played by Daniel Dae Kim, no less -- and why his work seems to keep meeting the political moment. Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of being David Henry Hwang. Recorded live at the Museum of Chinese in America in New York City.

Jeff and Phil welcome Dr. Michelle Au, who represents District 50 in the Georgia House of Representatives. She talks about her journey from medicine into politics -- from anesthesiologist to the first Asian American elected to the Georgia State Senate in 2020 -- how she's navigated some of the electoral shenanigans of her rapidly changing district, and the power of the Asian American vote in her swing state of Georgia during this extremely important and consequential presidential election.

Jeff and Phil welcome law professor and state senator Dave Min, who is running for Congress in California 47th district. He talks about why he made the decision to step into this critical race, the unique characteristics and shifting demographics of his traditionally conservative district, and some of the blatant (and sadly, unsurprising) anti-Asian racism his campaign has faced. Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of running for Congress.

Jeff and Phil welcome George Cheung, Director of More Equitable Democracy and co-host of the podcast The Future of Our Former Democracy, which asks an important question for our anxious times: Why does American democracy suck right now? George argues that there's a major underlying issue: the polarizing winner-take-all electoral system. He talks about what it could look like if the United States dismantled its current electoral system and rebuilt a proportional representation system to save our democracy. BONUS: After the episode, keep listening to hear the first episode of The Future of Our Former Democracy.

Jeff and Phil follow up and welcome back chef Edward Lee -- just two episodes later -- fresh off the finale of the Netflix cooking competition Culinary Class Wars. Spoiler alert! He talks about his grueling journey to the final challenge, including the Endless Cooking Hell, his unexpected new nickname, that incredible dessert dish, and how his cooking throughout the entire show told a personal story about his Korean American identity. Also: Jeff and Phil offer The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of Culinary Class Wars.

Jeff and Phil welcome their old friend, the one and only Daniel Dae Kim, who stars on Broadway in David Henry Hwang's Yellow Face. He talks about the play's brilliant, meta-comic exploration of race, representation and identity, his uniquely ascendant career as an actor, producer and advocate, and the twentieth anniversary of the role that changed everything for him: Jin on Lost. Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of being "DDK."

Jeff and Phil welcome award-winning chef, restaurateur and author Edward Lee, who appears as one of the "White Spoon" chefs on Netflix's Korean cooking competition show Culinary Class Wars. He talks about his personal and professional journey as a Korean American chef, how he got recruited to battle it out with 99 other Korean culinary professionals -- including Michelin star chefs, The Bibimbap King, and the chicken mask guy -- and his ideas on the evolution and future of Korean cuisine. Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of competing on Culinary Class Wars.

Jeff and Phil welcome back old friend Dino-Ray Ramos to discuss the techno-horror movie AfrAId, starring John Cho. They talk about John Cho's suburban dad thriller era and why it might not be a great idea to surrender every aspect of your family life to artificial intelligence (i.e. it might subscribe you to a meal prep delivery service). Also -- spoiler warning -- The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of AfrAId. 

Jeff and Phil welcome writer and performer Susan Lieu, author of The Manicurist's Daughter, a memoir about her search for answers after her mother dies during plastic surgery. She talks about grief, trauma, body image, her family's strident unwillingness to discuss what happened, and her attempts to find acceptance and purpose elsewhere -- including what turned out to be a cult. A yoga cult. Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of writing The Manicurist's Daughter. 

In this special live episode, Jeff and Phil host a post-screening Q&A with Philip Ng, star of the hit Hong Kong action movie Twilight of the Warriors: Walled In. He talks about the film's epic throwback to old school action cinema, the fun of playing a wild card villain like King, working alongside legends like Sammo Hung, and who got injured during the filming of Walled In (and why it was kind of Philip's fault). Special thanks to IW Group and Well Go USA.

Jeff and Phil welcome filmmaker Sean Wang and actor Izaac Wang, writer/director and star, respectively, of the indie coming-of-age film Dìdi. They talk about capturing the very specific emotional turbulence of Asian American suburban male adolescence, revisiting nostalgia for the 2000s internet AOL Instant Messenger era, and the agonizing and savage curation of one's MySpace "Top 8." Also, they share The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of making Dìdi. 

Jeff and Phil welcome filmmaker Jennifer Phang, director of Descendants: The Rise of Red, the latest installment of Disney's massively popular musical teen fantasy film series. They talk about her indie Asian American cinema roots with films like Half-Life and Advantageous, infusing some K-pop sensibility into a beloved and well-established franchise, and crafting the extreme meme-ability of "Jaladdin." 

Jeff and Phil welcome writer and race scholar OiYan A. Poon, author of Asian American Is Not a Color: Conversations on Race, Affirmative Action and Family. She talks about breaking out of her comfort zone to write a sincere and heartfelt exploration of race relations and affirmative action, the interviews she conducted with Asian Americans who have been actively engaged in policy debates over race-conscious admissions or affirmative action, and the not-so-simple question from her daughter that inspired the title of her book. 

Jeff and Phil welcome educator, socialite and etiquette expert Sara Jane Ho, host of the Netflix series Mind Your Manners and author of Mind Your Manners: How to Be Your Best Self in Any Situation. She talks about her cross-cultural, transnational journey to becoming a global etiquette leader and how context and culture are key to understanding etiquette in any social situation. Also, on the matter of wearing shoes in the house -- if you ask Jeff and Phil, it's definitively disgusting -- Sara Jane settles the debate once and for all.  

Recorded live at NCORE (National Conference on Race & Ethnicity in Higher Education) in Honolulu! Jeff and Phil welcome Katie Gee Salisbury, author of Not Your China Doll, a biography on the life and career of movie star Anna May Wong. They discuss the "golden age" of Hollywood, the enduring popularity of film sleuth Charlie Chan (who was inspired by real-life Honolulu police detective Chang Apana), The Good Earth, the legacy of yellowface and performance/perception of Chinese-ness.

Jeff and Phil welcome back Shin Yu Pai, poet, museologist and host of Ten Thousand Things, an award-winning podcast about modern-day artifacts of Asian American life. She is joined by Jenny Liou, poet, English scholar and former MMA cage fighter -- and one of the subjects of the latest season of Ten Thousand Things. They talk about Jenny's entry into the sport, the cage as a space of limitation and liberation, and the impossible and contradictory expectations of an Asian American female fighter. Also, stay tuned for "Cage," an extra episode of Ten Thousand Things featuring Shin Yu Pai and Jenny Liou. 

BONUS EPISODE! This is Jeff and Phil's full interview with actor Lee Jung-jae, star of Squid Game and the Star Wars series The Acolyte, presented with the unedited Korean audio (and translation by Isue Shin). He talks about joining the Star Wars franchise, making in his English-language acting debut as a Jedi master, and working with the show's young stars. He also gives us The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of making The Acolyte, and even dangles a tiny crumb of news about Squid Game season two. Also be sure to listen to our previous episode, which includes some additional commentary about the interview and Jeff and Phil's takes on The Acolyte.

Jeff and Phil welcome Korean actor Lee Jung-jae, star of Squid Game and the new Star Wars series The Acolyte. Speaking through an interpreter, he talks about joining the iconic Star Wars franchise, making in his English-language acting debut as a Jedi master, and working with the show's young stars. He also gives us The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of making The Acolyte, and even dangles a tiny crumb of news about Squid Game season two. Special thanks to Isue Shin for interpreting this conversation.

Jeff and Phil welcome Adam King and Sam Hyun, co-founders of the Asian American sneaker brand 1587. They talk about their inspiration for starting a company dedicated to "unapologetically Asian American" footwear, and how they're celebrating our community's oft-forgotten or neglected stories through shoes. Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of starting an Asian American sneaker company. (This episode is sponsored by the HBO original limited series The Sympathizer and its official companion podcast.)

In Episode 241, recorded live at Village Well Books & Coffee in Culver City, Jeff and Phil celebrate the book launch of Rising from the Ashes: Los Angeles, 1992. Edward Jae Song Lee, Latasha Harlins, Rodney King, and a City on Fire with author Paula Yoo and Pulitzer Prize-winning photojournalist Hyungwon "HK" Kang. They talk about Paula's drive to tell a nuanced and empathetic account of the 1992 Los Angeles uprising, the three families at the center of the unrest -- beyond the headlines and soundbites -- and some of the incredible and heartbreaking untold stories from this incendiary moment for Los Angeles' Black and Korean American communities. (This episode is sponsored by the HBO original limited series The Sympathizer and the official Sympathizer companion podcast.)

In Episode 240, Jeff and Phil welcome writer, stand-up comedian and media studies PhD Grace Jung, author of the book K-Drama School: A Pop Culture Inquiry into Why We Love Korean Television. They discuss the explosion of Korean dramas from bootleg VHS tapes to DramaFever (R.I.P.) to the most popular shows on worldwide streaming services; the wildest K-drama tropes from amnesia to leukemia to kimchi slaps; what makes these shows so irresistibly bingeable, and what can we learn about our societies and ourselves from watching them. 

In Episode 239, Jeff and Phil discuss the HBO original limited series The Sympathizer, based on the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel of the same name, with author Viet Thanh Nguyen and scholar Philip Nguyen, host of the official Sympathizer Podcast. They talk about the meta-upon-meta textual sandwich of adapting this modern classic into an epic television series, that time director Park Chan-wook came over to Viet's house -- hide the octopus! -- and the brilliant decision to cast the "dude playing a dude disguised as another dude" as alllll the white guys in The Sympathizer. BONUS: Keep listening to hear an episode of The Sympathizer Podcast with Robert Downey Jr., Hoa Xuande, Vincent Van Dyke, Viet Thanh Nguyen and Don McKellar.

Jeff and Phil welcome historian and professor Mae Ngai, co-editor of the book Corky Lee's Asian America: Fifty Years of Photographic Justice, a collection of over 200 photos celebrating the history and cultural impact of the Asian American social justice movement from the lens of late photojournalist and activist Corky Lee. She talks about Corky's calling as "the inundisputed, unofficial Asian American photographer laureate" and his lifelong quest to document, empower and create community change with his camera. Also: Jeff talks about that time he and Corky lost track of time.