Podcasts about asians

Meds that require special skill to start: Antipsychotics, Cobenfy, and a research update on antidepressant metabolism in Asians.CME: Take the CME Post-Test for this EpisodePublished On: 08/11/2025Duration: 12 minutes, 19 secondsChris Aiken, MD and Kellie Newsome, PMHNP have disclosed no relevant financial or other interests in any commercial companies pertaining to this educational activity.

We follow how deportation policy has evolved, expanding massively in the aftermaths of World War One and World War Two, while shifting its main targets -- from political radicals and dissidents, to organized criminals, to "undesirable" racial and ethnic groups including Asians and Mexicans. We examine the changing laws and judicial rulings that have carved out an exception for deportation, allowing the government nearly unlimited and unchecked power, with no recourse to the protections of the Bill of Rights -- and finally, we consider how the Trump administration's recent failed attempts to deport supporters of the Palestinian cause might lead to a small crack in the wall sealing the deportation process off from the courts and the Constitution. Image: Cartoon of the Buford or "Red Ark" departing from New York, Evening Star, Dec. 22, 1919 Suggested further reading: Kanstroom, "Deportation Nation"; Drinnon, "Rebel in Paradise: A Biiography of Emma Goldman"; Muzaffar Chishti and Colleen Putzel-Kavanaugh, "Tapping Ancient Wartime and Security Laws," etc., Migration Policy Institute, Please sign on as a patron to hear all patron-only lectures, including the most recent on the modern history of the Papacy! -- www.patreon.com/c/user?u=5530632

The title sums it up this week, but we're still gonna dive deep! First, Asians in Futbol news with the annoucement of Son Heung-min's signing with LAFC (not confirmed as of recording time but has since been made official!), The Angels and Dodgers pull out all the stops for Japanese celebrations, and Choo Shin Soo becomes HOF eligible next year.As for the trade deadline, Steven Kwan did NOT move, much to the chagrin of...the Dodgers, of course. Kenta Maeda is released by the Cubs, but their loss means DAAAAAAAA YANKEES...win?! And a few other moves from earlier in the summer. In position player news, Volpe's hot! Bo's hot! Higgy's hot! Yeli's hot! IKF's hot! Tommy Pham's hot! Lee Jung Hoo is trying to do his best with what he's got in the moment! And Tommy Edman and Kim Hyeseong need to get well soon!Over in pitching, PUT SOME RESPECT ON YU DARVISH'S NAME! We're talking to you, Yu Darvish! He keeps it humble while breaking yet another record for a Japanese-born pitcher, Sean Manaea is feeling good, Imanaga and Yamamoto are cruising, and Riley O'Brien is on fire.Lastly, in Ohtani news, his last start may not have gone to plan, but he just cranks up the dial in the other direction.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. On tonight's edition of Obbligato on APEX Express, which focuses on AAPI artists, musicians, and composers in the classical music world, host Isabel Li is joined by LA based performer and composer Richard An, who plays and creates new avant-garde music, usually with the ensemble House on Fire, and his music has been performed by the LA Phil and the Calder Quartet to name a few. Join us in our conversation, exploring the possibilities of avant-garde music, raising questions regarding Asian identities in the classical music world, and Richard's insights on art making during a time when Trump's cuts to the NEA are affecting artists and institutions nationwide. Featured Music: Sonatrinas: https://richardan.bandcamp.com/album/sonatrinas i got the electroshock blues: https://rasprecords.bandcamp.com/album/i-got-the-electroshock-blues   RICHARD AN (b.1995) is a performer and composer, born and raised in Los Angeles. Richard plays new music – usually with House on Fire – co-founded the tiny backpack new music series, and has performed with Monday Evening Concerts' Echoi Ensemble, Piano Spheres, The Industry and on Bang on a Can's LOUD Weekend. Richard plays piano and percussion, and has been known to sing, conduct, and teach. Richard's music has been performed by the Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra, Calder Quartet, HOCKET, C3LA, and more. His music has been released on CMNTX Records. Richard has a BM in Composition from USC and an MFA from CalArts. He is on faculty at the Pasadena Waldorf School, Glendale Community College and Harvard-Westlake. He plays taiko and tabla, and makes YouTube videos. Learn more about Richard's work on his website: https://richardanmusic.com/ Richard's social media: https://www.instagram.com/richardanmusic/ If you are in LA and want hear Richard's work, he's playing with House on Fire at the Sierra Madre Playhouse on August 17! https://www.sierramadreplayhouse.org/event/richardan2025   Transcript Opening: [00:00:00] APEX Express. Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the APEX Express. 00:00:46 Isabel Li Good evening and welcome back to a new episode of Apex Express on KPFA, 94.1 FM. We are bringing you an Asian and Asian American view from the Bay and around the world. I'm your host, Isabel Li, and tonight is a new edition of Obbligato, which explores AAPI identities and classical music. Tonight I'm joined by LA based performer and composer Richard An, who plays and creates new avant-garde music, usually with the ensemble House on Fire, and his music has been performed by the LA Phil and the Calder Quartet to name a few. Join us in our conversation, exploring the possibilities of avant-garde music, raising questions regarding Asian identities in the classical music world, and Richard's insights on art making during a time when Trump's cuts to the NEA are affecting artists and institutions nationwide. 00:01:41 Isabel Li Welcome to the show. Welcome to APEX Express, Richard. My first question for you is how do you identify and what communities would you say that you're a part of? 00:01:50 Richard An My name is Richard An I use he/him pronouns and I'm a second generation Korean American. My parents are both Korean. My dad came from Busan, which is a large city in South Korea, and my mom was born in Seoul and then moved to South America and then made her way up to Los Angeles where they met. And as for identity, like, I think Korean American would be the most accurate one. This is and I think an ever evolving part of first of all my identity and the way that it intersects with my practice and also I think that's the case with many Asian American artists, I mean artists from immigrant families, you know, the the matter of your identity, especially if you feel more distanced from it for one reason or another, is like an unsolved question for everyone like there is no one answer. That works for people and that's a thing that me people like myself I think will be exploring for our entire lives. When I introduce myself to people, I say that I'm a classical musician. And at the very core of it, that is true. That's not a lie. And I am, you know, a part of the classical music community in Los Angeles. But as time goes on, I have noticed and realized. That I tend to align myself more with like the avant-garde and experimental contemporary music communities of Los Angeles, which has certainly an overlap with the classical community, both in practice and historically, but yeah, I I would say those are the sort of two biggest ones, classical musicians and experimental avant-garde, contemporary musicians, whatever label you want to use for that. 00:03:47 Isabel Li Yeah. Some of our listeners might not know what avant-garde music entails. Can you — how would you describe avant-garde music to someone who might not be as familiar with this particular movement? 00:03:57 Richard An Yeah. So avant-garde music, a sort of flippant and joking way to to talk about it is ugly music or music. You know, my dad, for example, wouldn't like, but I think. It's music that either interfaces with elements or confronts facets or issues in music that aren't typical of other kinds of music. The music that you might hear that is labeled of on guard might be noisy or dissonant or uncomfortable, or any kind of, you know, adjectives that are synonyms for noisy or ugly, but I have come to love that kind of music, you know 1. Because of the the kind of questions that they might ask about our perceptions of music and two, because I guess one way to put it is that to be a classical musician, you need to be in a practice room for many hours a day for many years and go to what is unfortunately a college, which is usually very expensive and I guess for lack of a better term, paywalled for like you need to have the kind of resources that allow you to attend a four year undergrad and then a two year masters and then a three-year doctorate. But avant-garde music, contemporary music, experimental music doesn't necessitate that kind of thing. Often those musicians do have a background that gives them some amount of, you know, virtuosity or facility in an instrument. But like some of the best experimental musicians. Alive and some of the best ones that I know have no, like extensive training in a particular instrument and some may not have a degree in music at all. And that's one thing that I in like that separates it from classical music is that. 00:05:44 Richard An Classical music can be, unfortunately a little bit exclusionary. I don't think by any one specific design, but the fact that you need so many hours and very specific instructions from a mentor that necessitate that kind of relationship. But experimental music, I think does a little bit better job of diversifying or making it feel more equitable. 00:06:12 Isabel Li That's a great point, actually. One of my questions following up with that was what do you think is possible with this genre, which you kind of mentioned earlier with perhaps how this genre makes classical music a little bit more equitable for those who are interested in this field. In your experience, composing, what do you think makes the genre special, and how do you go about it? 00:06:35 Richard An One thing that I've noticed about being involved in the sort of contemporary experimental avant-garde music sphere is that it makes me a better listener, and I think other people who attend these concerts will agree. Like for example a large part of this kind of music is drone or repetition or, you know, like long spans of unchanging sound. And if the the sound that is being produced at face value is not changing, well then what do you notice about it? What do you grab on to and one of the most, I think, gratifying experiences is listening deeper and realizing that, ohh, even though you know for example this piano playing two notes for 30 minutes might not like the instructions will say to do the same thing for 30 minutes, but your experience as a human being will certainly change over those 30 minutes, even if the the notes are not like you will notice the slight fluctuations in the way that someone is playing, you will notice the beating patterns in the pitches on an instrument that may not be perfectly in tune, you will note other ambient sounds, you will note like you will notice so much more about the world when you are confronted with the kind of music that you know. You can say it forces you to listen to these sounds but also invites you to listen to these things. And I think that's really, really special. That's not to say that that can't happen with other kinds of music. Or even with classical music. Surely you know there are many, many ways to listen to everything. But I've noticed this within myself. When I listen to long, repetitive drone based music that it really opens my ears and makes me a more active participant as a listener. 00:08:30 Isabel Li It's a great point actually. Part of my work– because I studied music, history and theory in college– was how music can engage various listeners to participate. Have you composed anything that perhaps engages the listener in this more of a participatory setting? 00:08:47 Richard An Yeah. So I guess in order the some of the stuff that I've done to engage the audience, I guess both literally, and maybe more figuratively is, I wrote a piece last year for the Dog Star festival, which is a a contemporary and experimental music festival that is actually happening right now, at the time of this recording. It's a multi week long festival that focuses on music of this type that was founded by people in the sort of CalArts music world. But I wrote a piece for that last year for three melodicas, which are these basically toy instruments that look like keyboards, but you blow into them and you blowing air through these makes the sound happen. It's basically like if you cross a harmonica and a piano together. But I I wrote a piece for three of these, playing essentially the same notes. And because these instruments are pretty cheap, and they're often considered toys or, you know, instruments for children, they're not tuned to the exact way that, like a piano or a vibraphone or an expensive instrument might be. But I wanted to use that for my advantage. For example, if I play an F# on one melodica the same F# on another melodica will not be exactly the same and playing those two pitches together will produce what's known as a a beat or beat frequency. Which is, you know, a complicated, you know, mathematic physics thing, but basically 2 notes that are really, really close, but not quite together will create a kind of third rhythm because the the pitches are so close. Like, for example, if if I play an A at 4:40 and another A at 441, you will notice that difference of 1 Hertz inside of your ears. And that's a really cool phenomenon that happens explicitly because you were there listening to the piece. They don't happen necessarily, you know, like in, in recorded formats like, it's a very difficult thing to capture unless you are in the room with these instruments. And the fact that we had this audience of, let's say, 40 people meant that all forty of these people were experiencing these beat frequencies and another really cool factor of this is depending on where you are located in the room. With the way that the beats will sound in your ears are different and purely by the fact of acoustics like a wave bouncing off of the wall over on your left, will feel really different if you are closer or further from that wall. So not only do the audiences ears themselves, you know, invite these this this participation, but the pure physicality of each listener means that they will have a very slightly different experience of what the piece is, and again like this will happen in any concert. If you're at a classical show, if you're at a rock show if, if you're further from the stage, if you're further to the left or right, you will get a slightly different position in the stereo field that the musicians are playing in, but pieces like what I wrote and many others that exist emphasize this kind of like acoustic phenomena. That is really, really fascinating to listen to. 00:12:23 Isabel Li That's fascinating. And to get a sense of Richard's work, we'll be hearing coming up next. The short excerpt from his album Sonatrinas. This is the duo excerpt performed by Wells Leng, Katie Aikam, Kevin Good and composer Richard An himself. [COMP MUSIC: Sonatrinas (Excerpt: Duo)] 00:17:38 Richard An And so the back story for this piece is this was written for one of my recitals at CalArts. I was planning on playing this piece by Michael Gordon called Sonatra, which is a really, really beautiful and difficult piece for solo piano that I gave myself as an assignment, which I was not able to do with the amount of time. And, you know, like I just didn't give myself enough time to do this thing, so I still had this program of several pieces written with the idea of having this Michael Gordon Sonatra in the middle, but now that that sort of middle part was gone, there was a bunch of pieces about a piece that didn't exist. So in order to fill that hole, I wrote this piece called Sonatrinas which is a cheeky nod to the Michael Gordon Sonatra, but also to the fact that each part of this is kind of a diminutive Sonata form. Everything has a sort of ABA– here's some idea. Here's a different idea, and now we go back to that first idea. Every single part of this has a little bit of that in it. 00:18:51 Isabel Li Yeah, that's fascinating. Even the name itself reminds me of Sonata form in classical music, where it's kind of like an ABA section. As you sort of talked about earlier. And it's really cool that you're adapting this in a more avant-garde context. This is a reminder you're listening to Apex Express. Today we are interviewing composer and musician Richard An. 00:19:12 Isabel Li I think the general question that I have next is can you tell me a bit about what drew you to music and how you got your start in music, how you got introduced to it and what things have inspired you over the years? 00:19:24 Richard An Yeah. So a real quick sort of, I guess, history of my involvement with music is that I started piano lessons when I was pretty young, either three or four years old. I continued that until I was 12 or 13. I decided I really wanted to become a musician. I started taking composition lessons with this composer, AJ McCaffrey, who is really responsible for a lot of what I know and my successes, if you can call it that. He got me into a lot of the music that I am into now and set the foundation for what I would study and what I would write he was one of the instructors for this program called the LA Phil Composer Fellowship program, which back when I was a participant from 2011 to 2013, was a program hosted by the Los Angeles Philharmonic that took 4 high school age students every two years. And you know, they they taught us, you know, everything. How a young composer needs to know how instruments work, how to write a score, how to talk to musicians, how to do everything that a that a composer needs to learn how to do and at the end of this program, after the two years the young composers write a piece for the at the LA Philharmonic. So I was extremely lucky that by the age of 17 I was able to write a piece for orchestra and get that played and not just any orchestra, with the Los Angeles Philharmonic, you know, undisputedly one of the best orchestras in the world. Right. And then after that I I went to USC for my undergrad and then went to CalArts for my masters. And then here we are now. And that those are sort of the like, you know if someone writes a biography about me, that's what we'll be, you know, involved in the thing. But I really started to develop my love for music in my freshman and sophomore year. In high school I I started to get into more and more modern composers. I started to get into more and more noisy things and a lot of this coincided actually with the passing of my mother. She died when I was 14 and you know that in any human the death of a parent will cause you to reevaluate and rethink aspects of your life. Things that you thought were certainties will not be there anymore. So for me, I stopped taking piano lessons and I sort of went headfirst into composition and which is why my degrees are specifically in composition and not piano. Had my mother's passing not happened, you know, who knows what I would be doing now? Maybe I'm not a composer at all. Maybe I'm not into avant-garde music at all, but because things happen the way that they did, I suddenly took a quick turn into avant-garde music and my involvement there only grew more and more and more. Until you know where I am today, I'm almost 30 years old, so I've been listening to and a participant of this music for maybe 15 years or so and I'm quite happy. 00:22:43 Isabel Li That's awesome to hear. 00:22:45 Isabel Li And perhaps a testament to Richard one's very versatile compositional style and avant-garde music coming up next are three pieces from his album i got the electroshock blues. There are five pieces in the album in total, but we will be hearing three of them. The first one called “feeling, scared today,” the second one, “pink pill,” and the fifth one, “la la.” [COMP MUSIC: i got the electroshock blues: 1. “feeling, scared today”, 2. “pink pill”, 3. “la la”.] 00:36:41 Richard An Earlier last year, I released a collection of live recordings under the title of I got the Electroshock Blues. Electroshock Blues is a song by the band Eels I encountered at a pivotal moment in my life. This was right around the time that my mother passed and this record and this song is heavily centered in grief. The main musician in the Eels, Mark Oliver Everett, was dealing with the passing of multiple family members and people who were close to him so it hit me in just the right way at just the right time. And because of that, this song specifically has stayed with me for many, many years. I found myself coming back to the contents of this song as I was composing and all the pieces on this album, of which there are 5 heavily take material from this song, whether that's words, chords, the melody. I really, you know, take it apart, dissect it and use those as ingredients in the pieces that I have written here and all of these are live recordings except for the first piece which was recorded in my studio. I just sort of overdubbed the parts myself, and there are credits in the liner notes for this album, but I just want to say that. The first piece which is called “feeling, scared today,” was originally written for the Hockett piano duo, which is a duo comprised of Thomas Kotcheff and Sarah Gibson. Sarah Gibson was a really close friend of mine who passed away last year and now this piece which in some way came out of a feeling of grief now has renewed meaning and another facet or aspect of this piece is centered in grief now. Because this was dedicated to Thomas and Sarah. Yeah. So these pieces are all derived from this one song. 00:38:57 Isabel Li That's a beautiful response. Thank you so much. Kind of following along your background and how you got to where you are. How do you think your identity has informed your work as a composer and musician? And this could be– you can interpret this in any way that you wish. 00:39:11 Richard An Yeah, this is a really interesting question. The question of how my identity interfaces with my music. In my art, particularly because no person's answer is quite the same, and I don't necessarily have this figured out either. So for a little bit of I guess for a little bit of context on me, I'm second generation Korean American, but I've never been to Korea and I never went to Korean school. My parents never really emphasize that part of my education. You could call it assimilation. You can call it whatever, but I think they valued other aspects of my growth than my explicit tie to Koreanness or, you know my specific identity as a Korean or Korean American, and because of that, I've always felt a little bit awkwardly distanced from that part of my identity, which is something that I will never be completely rid of. So in in a world and the field where whiteness is sort of the default part you know, particularly because you know, classical music does come from Europe, you know, for hundreds of years, like all of the development in this particular kind of music did happen in a place where everyone was white. So because of that background of where I come from and where my musical activity comes from, whiteness has been the default and still feels like it is. So me looking the way that I do as, an obvious not white person, as a person of color will always have a little bit of an outsider status to the thing. And with that comes the question of what are you bringing to classical music? What do you bring to the kind of music that you're creating? Like for example, the most I think the most well known East Asian composers are people like Toru Takemitsu or Tan Dun, people who will interface with their Asianness, in many different ways, but that often involves bringing, for example, a Japanese scale into your classical composition, or bringing a Japanese instrument into your classical composition. Those are, you know, examples of of of pieces by Toru Takemitsu, and other, you know, very successful. Asian American composers now may do similarly. Texu Kim is maybe someone who can also give insight into this, but nothing about me feels explicitly Korean, maybe besides the way that I look. And besides, the way that I grew up a little bit like I've never been to Korea. What right does that give me as a Korean, to for example, use a Korean instrument or use a Korean scale? I've never studied that music. I've never studied that culture. I in in some arguments I would be guilty of cultural appropriation, because I, you know, have not done the work to study and to properly represent. And for example, like Pansori, if I were to use that in any of my music. 00:42:46 Richard An But then the the the difficult question is well, then who does have the right? Does being Korean give me all the license that I need to incorporate aspects of my identity? And if I am not Korean, does that, does that bar my access to that kind of music forever? Another way of looking at this is, I've studied North Indian Classical Hindustani music for a while. I've played tabla and and studied that music at CalArts and I really, really love playing tabla. It's it doesn't make its way into my composition so much, but it is certainly a big part of my musicianship and who I am and, like, but am I barred from using ideas or aspects of that music and culture and my music because simply for the fact that I am not Indian? Many musicians would say no. Of course you've done your homework, you've done your research. You're doing due diligence. You're you're representing it properly. And many people who study this music will say music cannot go forward if it's not like the innervated and continued and studied by people like me who are not explicitly South Asian or Indian. That's an example of the flip side of this of me using or representing the music from a culture that I am not a part of, but again, am I really Korean? I've never been there. I wasn't born there. I speak the language conversationally. But this is an extremely long winded way of saying that I feel a tenuous connection to my Korean this my Korean American identity that hasn't been solved, that isn't solved and probably will never be completely solved. But I think that's exciting. I think that's an evolving aspect of my music and will continue to be that way as long as I continue to be involved in music and as as long as I continue to write. 00:45:05 Isabel Li Yeah, absolutely. That's a wonderful response. Actually. I was, as I was studying different types of world music and learning how people kind of borrow from different cultures. There is this always, this kind of question like ohh, like which types of musical elements from which cultures can I incorporate and obviously the aspects of personal identity definitely play into that a little bit. And part of my senior thesis in college was studying AAPI artists in classical music, and specifically that there are a lot of Asian-identifying musicians in the classical music world. But as you kind of mentioned earlier, I think classical music is very much still like grounded in whiteness and has this kind of air of elitism to it just because of its roots. How do you think this kind of identity intersects with the classical music world? And forgive me if you've already kind of talked about it before, but it's an interesting juxtaposition between like, for example, musicians who identify as AAPI or Asian in this kind of genre that is very– it's very associated with whiteness. Could you kind of talk about the dynamics of how these two aspects of like culture kind of interplay with one another? 00:46:26 Richard An Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, there are ways that I personally feel like I intersect with classical music with reference to my identity, and that also plays with the sort of cultural expectations, like there are stereotypes of Asian musicians, of Asian classical musicians. But there are not necessarily the same the same kind of stereotypes with white classical musicians. A very dominant like stereotype that you'll run into is the young Asian prodigy who practices 10 hours a day and may therefore be labeled as mechanical or unfeeling or, you know, are involved in in this a lot. So much so to the fact to the to the point where to excel an Asian American classical musician or as an Asian classical musician, in general, seems to always carry that stereotype. Like you know, Seong-Jin Cho's success as a pianist may not necessarily be attributed to his musicianship or his skill as a pianist. Because he is an Asian person, an Asian guy. Like how much of his success is because of the perceived tiger mom-ness that he might have existed under? How much of it is attributed to the same type of stereotypes that are labeled like that that label the five year old pianist on YouTube that that is clearly better than I am? Like some of these stereotypes help and some of these don't, but the I think it's undeniable that they exist in a way that doesn't in a way that doesn't carry for white people in the classical music sphere. And I think part of that is that classical music is still rooted in its Eurological identity. I think I'm using that correctly. That's an idea from George Lewis. Eurological versus Afrological. The context that I'm using Eurological right now is specifically in reference to George Lewis, who is a composer, trombonist, and musicologist who, I think coined the two terms to differentiate the roots of different styles of music, and you know, I haven't read enough to confidently say, but classical music is Eurological by example and like jazz would be Afrological by an example and the contexts in which they develop and exist and grew up are fundamentally different, which is what makes them different from each other. And again like this needs a little bit more research on my part. 00:49:23 Richard An Yeah, and because the classical music is so rooted in this thing, I don't believe that the stereotypes that exist for Asian classical musicians exist for white people. And I think that is something that will naturally dissipate with time, like after another 100 years of Asians, and, you know, people of color in, you know, every country in the world, with their continued involvement and innova otypes will disappear like this. You know, it may require certain concerted efforts from certain people, but I do believe that after a while these things will not exist. They'll sort of equalize right in the same way. That the divisions that we make between a Russian pianist and a French pianist and a German pianist, though you know people still do study those things like those aren't really dividing lines quite as strong as an Asian composer or an Indian composer might be. 00:50:27 Isabel Li Thank you for that perspective. I think it's, I think these are conversations that people don't kind of bring up as much in the classical music world and it's great that, you know, we're kind of thinking about these and probably possibly like opening some conversations up to our listeners hopefully. And so my next kind of pivot here is as you know with our current administration, Trump has canceled millions of dollars in National Endowment of the Arts grants, and it's been affecting arts organizations all over the nation. And I was kind of wondering, have you been affected by these cuts to arts programs and what kinds of advice would give upcoming musicians or composers in this era? 00:51:07 Richard An Yeah, that's a yeah, that's a big thing. And like, you know, changing day by day, right. So the Trump administration's effects on my life as a musician is simultaneously huge and also not really that much. So in one way these grant cuts have not affected my personal musical life because I haven't ever received a government grant for any of my arts making. So in one way like my life is the same, but in many, many, many other ways it has changed. Like I am involved with and I work with concert series and organizations and nonprofits that do rely on NEA funding and other government arts based funding. And if they have less money to fund their next season, that means certain projects have to be cut. That means certain musicians have to be paid less. That means certain programs have to change, especially if these funding cuts are aimed towards DEI or quote and quote, woke programming like that is, you know this that will by design disproportionately affect people of color in this field, which already you know, like is in a Eurocentric urological tradition like this is already something that people of color don't have a head start in if the funding cuts are aimed at certain types of programming that will disadvantage already disadvantaged groups of people, well then I don't know, that's even–we're starting even later than other people might be, and you know, like, if a musicians, if a person's reaction to this is despair, I think that's reasonable. I think that is an absolutely, like that's an appropriate reaction to what is fundamentally an attack on your voice as an artist. But I I have for as long as I can, you know, I have always worked under the impression that I will have to do the thing myself, and that's in the piece of advice that I give for a lot of people. You shouldn't necessarily wait for this ensemble to come pick you to play or or to to, you know, commission you to write a piece if you want to write the piece, you should do it and figure out how to put it on yourself. If you want to perform you know music by a certain composer, you should do it and then figure out how to do it yourself. That certainly comes from a place of privilege, like I can do this because I have enough work as a musician to be able to pay for the the passion projects it comes from a place of privilege, because I live in Los Angeles and the resources and musicians and other people who I would like to collaborate with live here, so you know, completely acknowledging and understanding that I I do believe that it's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. I think if you're a young musician and are feeling some despair about these funding cuts and you know the many, many, many other transgressions against humanity by this current administration. 00:54:38 Richard An I recommend you just go out and do it yourself. You find your people, you find your community, you pull favors, you work long nights and you do it and the reward will firstly be the good you're putting out into the world and then the the art you're making. But also this will be paid in kind by the community you're building, the musicians you're working with. And the the connections you make like you know I I have, I am currently conducting this interview from a studio space that I am renting out in Pasadena that I have built over the last two years that I do all of my rehearsals and my performances in, and that I, you know, host rehearsals and performances for other people, and this cannot happen and could not have happened without the goodwill and help and contribution from other people. When I say go out and do it yourself, I'm not saying that you as a human being are alone. I'm saying you don't need to wait for institutional approval or permission to go out and do these things. Get your friends and do them themselves. And my optimistic belief is that the support and the work will follow. 00:55:53 Isabel Li Richard, thank you so much for sharing your perspectives and your voice on this show today. And thank you to our many listeners of KPFA on tonight's episode of Obbligato on Apex Express. Which focuses on the AAPI community of the classical music world. There were some inspirational words on arts and arts making by Richard An musician and composer based in Los Angeles. 00:56:18 Isabel Li Please check our website kpfa.org to find out more about Richard An and his work as well as the state of the arts during this period of funding cuts. 00:56:29 Isabel Li We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world, your voices and your art are important. 00:56:41 Isabel Li APEX Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by Isabel Li. Have a great evening. The post APEX Express – 8.7.25 – Obbligato with Richard An appeared first on KPFA.

Join Lia Riley and her guest Un as they reflect on their summer journeys through Korea, sharing the quiet moments and unexpected discoveries that made their trips memorable. From BTS concerts, to witnessing a Squid Game parade in Seoul to wandering through Jeonju's peaceful hanok villages, they talk about the experiences that lingered long after they returned home. Along the way, they'll share their most useful travel tips—the practical advice that comes from actually being there, making wrong turns, and finding those perfect hidden spots. Whether it's navigating Seoul's neighborhoods, connecting with locals, or enjoying happenstance moments, hopefully listeners will glean some insight on their own future travelsReady to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

BTS is BACK. Join the Afternoona Army as we dive into the whirlwind that was June—from the emotional highs of Festa and military releases to the Hope on the Stage Encore "Hipples" and the pure joy of Run Jin. Some of your hosts were actually in Korea during all the chaos, so get ready for behind-the-scenes stories, real-time reactions, and all the feelings that came with witnessing this incredible month unfold. Whether you were following along from afar or living it up in Seoul, we're breaking down every moment that reminded us why we fell in love with these seven members in the first place.Afternoona Army is on PATREON!Join The BTS Buzz and get access to Afternoona Army's exclusive DISCORD channel, get shout outs on-air in podcast, and receive invitations to quarterly live support groups. Questions? Email afternoonaarmy@gmail.com for more information.Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Check out our sister pod www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest members of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Want to find more great BTS content? Head over to Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life and links to our social media.

Welcome to Season 5, Episode 31! Our guest today is Daniel Tam-Claiborne, a writer, multimedia producer, and nonprofit director. His latest work is the novel Transplants released by Simon & Schuster. It's a coming of age story following two young women—Lin, who is Chinese and Liz, who is Chinese American. They're both navigating the journey to find their truest selves in a world that doesn't know where either of them belong. The novel is an exploration of race, love, power, and freedom that reveals how—in spite of our divided times—even our fiercest differences may bring us closer than we can imagine. Tam-Claiborne is also the author of the short story collection What Never Leaves, and his writing has appeared in a variety of publications and outlets including Michigan Quarterly Review, Catapult, Literary Hub, Off Assignment, The Rumpus, HuffPost, and elsewhere. Outside of writing, Daniel serves on the Board of Directors of Seattle City of Literature and on the Advisory Board of Off Assignment. He's a frequent speaker, moderator, and host. In our conversation, we discuss the process of writing a novel, inspiration for Transplants, feelings of belonging, the importance of COVID and lockdown as an element of Transplants, the diversity in the Asian American community, and so much more. Transplants is a well-written, moving book that we think shares several common themes that resonate with so many audiences. Tam-Claiborne doesn't shy away from deep issues that Asian Americans, Asians, and expats face as he explores belonging, identity, and more. You can see more of Daniel's work on his website Travel Breeds Content or his Instagram account @datclaiborne. If you like what we do, please share, follow, and like us in your podcast directory of choice or on Instagram @AAHistory101. For previous episodes and resources, please visit our site at https://asianamericanhistory101.libsyn.com or our links at http://castpie.com/AAHistory101. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, email us at info@aahistory101.com.

Send us a textActs 20:1-6After the uproar ceased, Paul sent for the disciples, and after encouraging them, he said farewell and departed for Macedonia. When he had gone through those regions and had given them much encouragement, he came to Greece. There he spent three months, and when a plot was made against him by the Jews as he was about to set sail for Syria, he decided to return through Macedonia. Sopater the Berean, son of Pyrrhus, accompanied him; and of the Thessalonians, Aristarchus and Secundus; and Gaius of Derbe, and Timothy; and the Asians, Tychicus and Trophimus. These went on ahead and were waiting for us at Troas, but we sailed away from Philippi after the days of Unleavened Bread, and in five days we came to them at Troas, where we stayed for seven days.Support the show

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. The post APEX Express – July 31, 2025 appeared first on KPFA.

The Squid Games are finished, and we're here to unpack it all with you -- the baby, the VIPs, the ending, and everything in between.Ready to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

We're officially past the All-Star Break, and the race for the pennant is officially ON.But first! At long last, Ichiro becomes the first ever Asian player in the Hall of Fame, so of course we have to talk about what that means to us, and how much MLB has changed since his tenure began.Then, a quick overview of the All-Star Game. The NL won this round, but Ohtani has lost Best Dressed...again. Onto the hot stove, Dane Dunning and Stuart Fairchild are the first Asians to move, but some big rumors have us refreshing our feeds until the deadline.Position player news starts with Kim Ha Seong back on the IL, but Bo Bichette and Steven Kwan make big offensive contributions. In pitching, Bryan Woo reaches a legendary record, Brennan Bernadino is has ZERO earned runs in over 11 IP in July, Shota Imanaga gets hung out to dry by his manager, and Kumar Rocker is finding his stride. Lastly, Ohtani shows us that vintage TWP action against the Twins, continues to rake with 6 homers since the break, and is moonlighting as a children's book author.Bryan Woo interview with International Examiner: https://iexaminer.org/seattle-mariners-starting-pitcher-bryan-woo-speaks-on-race-identity-and-being-a-role-model/

In Part 2, we pick up where we left off in Part 1. Carolyn and I talk about making decisions and intentionality vs. circumstance, need, and necessity. We then go on to talk more about Carolyn's lifelong love of sports. She shares the story of her maternal grandmother coming from The Philippines to live with them and how they'd watch games together. It was the days when, in much of the country, if you wanted to watch Major League Baseball, it was all Atlanta Braves, all the time (thanks to TBS, of course). Carolyn became a Braves fan, especially a fan of Dale Murphy. She watched football, too. She didn't watch the Giants on TV much, because every game wasn't televised in those days. But she could easily hop on Muni to see a game at Candlestick Park. Her dad often picked them up, showing up at the ballpark around the seventh inning, getting in free, and watching the end of the game with Carolyn and her friends and/or sisters. We go on a short sidebar about bundling up in San Francisco—at Candlestick and if you just wanted to go to the beach. In addition to Candlestick, she went to Warriors games a bit and also various sporting events at Cow Palace. Her dad learned how to bowl and would take his kids with him. We fast-forward a bit to hear about Carolyn's years in high school, when she went to the all-girl school Mercy High (which is now closed). Later, she took the same bus, the 29, to SF State that she had taken to Mercy. State was the only college she applied to. We talk a little about her decision not to leave San Francisco for school. In high school, she had decided that she wanted to be a sports writer. In fact, she aimed to become the first woman anchor at ESPN. We rewind a bit to talk about some of the journalism Carolyn did in high school. She had her own column in the school paper called “Off the Bench.” She shares a fun story of calling the Braves' front office to arrange for an interview with her favorite player—Murphy—the next time Atlanta rolled into town. In her third semester at SF State, Carolyn got pregnant. Around this time, she also took her first Asian-American Studies class, something that kicked in for her and stays with her to this day. She dove in head-first. I ask Carolyn whether and how much of that history her parents were aware of. She says that, for them, much of it was just things going on in their lives in the city they came to—things like the strike at SF State or the demonstrations at the I-Hotel in Manilatown. Learning more and more about the history of her people in the US lead Carolyn to confront her dad. “Why did you bring us here?” she'd ask. She ended up raising her first child, a mixed-race kid, as a single parent around this time in her life. She had figured that her son's dad would bring the kid the Blackness in his life, and she'd bring the Filipino-ness. Her own ideas of how best to raise the kid had to evolve, and they did, she says. She eventually returned to State and graduated. She lived in South City for a hot minute, held three jobs, and raised her son. She never felt that she couldn't leave The Bay. It was more, “Why would I?” Then, because if you know Carolyn Sideco, well, you know … then we talk about New Orleans. New Orleans is why and how Carolyn came into my life. My wife is borderline obsessed with The Crescent City. I'd been there some earlier in my life, growing up not too far away and having some Louisiana relatives. Erin and I spent three weeks in fall 2022 in a sublet in Bywater, Ninth Ward. That NOLA fever caught on for me then, and I'm hooked. Back home sometime after that, Carolyn came across Erin's radar. “There's a woman in San Francisco who seems to love New Orleans as much as I do and she has a house there!” Erin would tell me. In 2024, at a vegan Filipina pop-up at Victory Hall, we finally met this enigmatic woman. We ended up spending Mardi Gras this year at Carolyn's house in New Orleans—Kapwa Blue. “New Orleans has been calling me for about 20 years,” Carolyn says. One of her younger sisters lived there awhile. Her oldest son served in AmeriCorps there for three years and kept living in New Orleans four more. Carolyn and other members of her family visited often. This was around the time that Hurricane Katrina hit and devastated Southern Louisiana. A little more than a decade ago, Carolyn learned of the historical markers in the area that told the stories of Filipinos being the first Asians to settle in that part of the world. (Longtime listeners of Storied: SF might recall that Brenda Buenviaje hails from just across the Mississippi River from New Orleans.) As Carolyn learned more and more of the Filipino history in the region, that calling started to make more and more sense. Three years ago or so, her oldest son got married in New Orleans. That visit told Carolyn that she, too, could live there. Her husband devised a plan, and with some of Carolyn's cousins, they bought a house in the Musician's Village part of town, near the Ninth Ward—the aforementioned Kapwa Blue. They intended to bring that same sense of community her parents found and participated in back in San Francisco all those decades ago to their new neighborhood New Orleans. In addition to the house, Carolyn helped found tours of Filipino history in New Orleans and the surrounding area. Find them Bayou Barkada Instagram at @bayoubarkada Back in The City these days, Carolyn has her own sports consultancy called Coaching Kapwa (IG). “I call myself ‘Your sports relationship coach,'” she says. This means that she provides comfort and advice to anyone interacting with any of the various sports ecosystems. She aims to apply the idea of kapwa to an otherwise competition-driven sports landscape. We end the podcast (and the season) with Carolyn's interpretation of the theme of Storied: San Francisco, Season 7: Keep it local. She shares what that idea means for her here as well as how it pertains to her time in New Orleans. We'll be taking August off as far as new episodes go. I'll be busy putting together the first episodes of Season 8 and getting ready for the season launch party/art opening. “Every Kinda People” kicks off at Mini Bar on Sept. 4. That's also the theme of the next 20 or so episodes of this show. As always, thank you deeply and sincerely for listening/reading/sharing/liking/commenting/DMing/emailing/subscribing/rating/showing up and really any type of interaction you do with this passion project of mine. If you're not already, please sign up for our monthly newsletter over on the About page. See you in September!

Acts 20:1-16 English Standard VersionPaul in Macedonia and Greece20 After the uproar ceased, Paul sent for the disciples, and after encouraging them, he said farewell and departed for Macedonia. 2 When he had gone through those regions and had given them much encouragement, he came to Greece. 3 There he spent three months, and when a plot was made against him by the Jews as he was about to set sail for Syria, he decided to return through Macedonia. 4 Sopater the Berean, son of Pyrrhus, accompanied him; and of the Thessalonians, Aristarchus and Secundus; and Gaius of Derbe, and Timothy; and the Asians, Tychicus and Trophimus. 5 These went on ahead and were waiting for us at Troas, 6 but we sailed away from Philippi after the days of Unleavened Bread, and in five days we came to them at Troas, where we stayed for seven days.Eutychus Raised from the Dead7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight. 8 There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered. 9 And a young man named Eutychus, sitting at the window, sank into a deep sleep as Paul talked still longer. And being overcome by sleep, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead. 10 But Paul went down and bent over him, and taking him in his arms, said, “Do not be alarmed, for his life is in him.” 11 And when Paul had gone up and had broken bread and eaten, he conversed with them a long while, until daybreak, and so departed. 12 And they took the youth away alive, and were not a little comforted.13 But going ahead to the ship, we set sail for Assos, intending to take Paul aboard there, for so he had arranged, intending himself to go by land. 14 And when he met us at Assos, we took him on board and went to Mitylene. 15 And sailing from there we came the following day opposite Chios; the next day we touched at Samos; and the day after that we went to Miletus. 16 For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus, so that he might not have to spend time in Asia, for he was hastening to be at Jerusalem, if possible, on the day of Pentecost.English Standard Version (ESV)The Holy Bible, English Standard Version. ESV® Text Edition: 2016. Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. 

Lia, Megan and Amy reunite after Lia's trip to Seoul (stand-alone trip pod forthcoming). You won't get erudite travel scholarship but she does talk about her armpit situation. Also, Megan and Amy are knee-deep in K-Pop Demon Hunters and want you to join them. Also what dramas are we looking forward to releasing?Ready to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

BTS is back! And with that comes a little refresher on fan etiquette for all future events. Let's behave as the kind of ARMY that are never going to warrant a disappointed look from Park Jimin--m'kay?NEW! Afternoona Army is now on PATREON!Join The BTS Buzz and get access to Afternoona Army's exclusive DISCORD channel, get shout outs on-air in podcast, and receive invitations to quarterly live support groups. Questions? Email afternoonaarmy@gmail.com for more information.Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Check out our sister pod www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest members of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Want to find more great BTS content? Head over to Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life and links to our social media.

Welcome to Season 5, Episode 29! Today we're joined by a true icon in the world of academia—Professor Gordon H. Chang. A celebrated historian, Professor Chang is both the Olive H. Palmer Professor in Humanities and a Professor of History at Stanford University. He's also a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. We're honored to speak with him about his latest book War, Race, and Culture, published by Stanford University Press in May 2025. This anthology compiles some of his most powerful essays written over decades of impactful scholarship. The topics range from foreign relations and U.S. imperialism to race, Asian American identity, and the cultural contributions of Asian Americans. Our conversation covers everything from the role of propaganda in shaping views of Asians, the long history of harmful stereotypes, and the cultural erasure seen during Japanese internment—including how artists like Dr. Seuss and creators of Superman contributed to racist narratives. Professor Chang also reflects on the political engagement of Asian Americans and why “nurture vs. nature” plays a crucial role in debunking the myth of political apathy in the community. We also touch on a more personal subject: his interest in art history, including how his father's legacy inspired him to explore and uplift overlooked Asian American artists like Dong Kingman, whose brilliance was too often overshadowed by the racist caricatures found in mainstream media. This episode offers not only a look into Professor Chang's new book, but a deeper understanding of how history, race, and culture intersect in America—and why writing history is always personal. Links and Resources: Learn more about War, Race, and Culture from Stanford University Press Read more from Gordon H. Chang, including Ghosts of Gold Mountain, Fateful Ties, and Asian American Art: A History, 1850-1970 If you like what we do, please share, follow, and like us in your podcast directory of choice or on Instagram @AAHistory101. For previous episodes and resources, please visit our site at https://asianamericanhistory101.libsyn.com or our links at http://castpie.com/AAHistory101. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, email us at info@aahistory101.com.  

What was it like to learn from Dr. Deming himself -- a decade before his name became legend in U.S. business circles? In this deeply personal episode, William Scherkenbach shares with host Andrew Stotz what it was like to sit in Deming's classroom in 1972, join him for late-night chats at the Cosmos Club, and help ignite transformational change at Ford and GM. Learn how Deming's teachings shaped a lifetime of purpose, and why Scherkenbach, now in his 80th year, is stepping back into the arena with lessons still burning bright. TRANSCRIPT 0:00:02.3 Andrew Stotz: My name is Andrew Stotz, and I'll be your host as we continue our journey into the teachings of Dr. W. Edwards Deming. Today, I'm here with featured guest William Scherkenbach, and he is known as one of the men who has spent a huge amount of time with Dr. Deming, as he mentioned to me previously, starting from 1972, over a thousand meetings and many other activities that he's been involved in. So, Bill, welcome to the show. Why don't you give us a little background about you?   0:00:39.5 William Scherkenbach: Oh, okay. Good to be here, Andrew. Well, I'm going to start with, since it's about Deming, in '72, I was newly married in April, but had been accepted to NYU Graduate School of Business, and I don't know, I never found out who wrote the course syllabus, but whoever did wrote something that it sounded like a darn interesting course, sampling, manufacturing. I was a protocol officer at the United Nations at the time and was going to night school at the New York University Graduate School of Business. So, I said, this sounds like a good course, interesting course. Had no idea who Dr. Deming was, and I walked into the first class, and there was an old, I'm 26, so he was 72 in 1972, and he was one of the first, one of the only old person who didn't say, I used to be, and I don't want to stereotype all of my peers now that I'm 79, but hopefully I don't fall into the, well, I used to be and what happened. But he did tell, I mean, statistics can be a very technical subject, and the way he taught it, I had courses in some theory of sampling, which was one of his books.   0:02:52.2 William Scherkenbach: He had three, I said three courses. The other course that I took was based on his lectures in Japan in 1950, and in fact, two of them. The third course was an extension of that. So, he was, he would teach the statistics, but he was able to tell the history of the people behind all of the thoughts and the formulas and approaches, and I found that extremely, extremely interesting. And he handed out tons of papers and material, and it was just a very, very good experience. I know he had, and he had, in my opinion, a great sense of humor, but then statisticians, what's our status? Yeah, we're like accountants, in any event. .   0:04:12.2 Andrew Stotz: Why was he teaching? I mean, at 72, most men, you know, maybe women also, but most of us are like, it's the twilight of our years, and we now know he had 30 more years to go, but why was he teaching? And also, what's interesting is when I think about Deming, I think about his overall system of what he's teaching, whereas it's interesting to think about how he taught one relatively narrow subject.   0:04:43.7 William Scherkenbach: I'll get to that as to why I think he was teaching. But yeah, back then there were no 14 Points, no glimmer of Profound Knowledge. It was, not theoretical statistics, but applied statistics with a theory behind it. And he still was really expanding on Shewhart 's work with the difference between enumerative and analytic. He used his own. Now, why he was teaching, years later, probably 1987, so yeah, a bunch of years later, when I was at Ford and I had attended at the time, I attended a senior executive week-long get-together in order to get constancy of purpose or more continuity in the senior executive group. One of the people we brought in was Dr. Peter Kastenbaum. And I found as I attended his lecture in that week-long meeting, he was a student of CI Lewis. And CI Lewis, Deming learned about from Walter Shewhart and his work in the epistemology theory of knowledge. And in any event, Deming, when he was asked, and at the time it was still in the '30s, I think, when he was at the School of Agriculture, or the agriculture department, and bringing in Shewhart, he had tried to get CI Lewis to come talk. And CI said, I would love to, but I have a commitment to my students. And so I can't adjust my schedule.   0:07:33.9 William Scherkenbach: And the students, the people who wanted to learn were sacred. And I think that had a huge impact on Dr. Deming. I mean, he spoke about it a lot. And the way, you know, in a lot of the videos that Clare Crawford-Mason did, lovingly called the old curmudgeon. But for students, he had the greatest empathy and charity for, he just didn't suffer fools gladly. If you showed him that you weren't willing to learn, he took great joy in letting them know where they, where they stood.   0:08:43.1 Andrew Stotz: And one of the things when I went into my first Deming seminar in 1990, so now we're fast forwarding 30 years from when you first met him. It was almost like there was a safe harbor for workers, for young people, for people with open minds. I mean, I didn't, I watched as he didn't suffer fools, but I'm just curious, when you go back to 1972 in those classes, I'm assuming that he was pretty gentle with the students, encouraging them and all that was...   0:09:19.0 William Scherkenbach: Oh, absolutely. In my experience, I mean, if you were by, you know, in a student in graduate school, even though the graduate school of business in New York, down on 90 Church Street, Wall Street area, there were very few people going directly from your bachelor's to the master's program. And so these were people that had probably 10 years experience in business doing stuff. And yet by going to the class, absolutely were willing to learn, listen to different points of view, which is absolutely crucial. As you progress with theory of knowledge to be able to get different perspectives on whatever it is you're trying to look at.   0:10:23.2 Andrew Stotz: I would like to continue on this period of time just because it's a snapshot we don't get that often or that easily. You mentioned CI Lewis, a man who lived from about 1880 to about the year I was born, around 1964-65, and he was known for his understanding and discussion about logic and things like that. But why was CI Lewis someone that was interesting to Dr. Deming? What was the connection from your perspective?   0:10:59.6 William Scherkenbach: Well, my understanding is Shewhart referred to him, and Lewis was a professor at Harvard, and he was in the Peirce, I believe it's called. It looks like Peirce, but it's Peirce School of, or Chair of Philosophy, and Charles Sanders Peirce was a huge, huge influence in epistemology. And so that whole chain of thought or train of thought interested Deming, but it really was, he was introduced to it by Walter Shewhart.    0:11:48.3 Andrew Stotz: There's a famous quote, I believe, by Deming about CI Lewis and his book Mind and the World Order.   0:11:56.0 William Scherkenbach: Mind and the World Order, yeah.   0:11:59.9 Andrew Stotz: Deming said he had to read it six times before he fully understood and could apply its insights. And sometimes I think maybe Dr. Deming was truly inspired by that because when I think about his work, I'm still reading it and rereading it. And just listening to the video that you did many years ago with Tim talking about reduced variation, reduced variation, what he was talking about. Sometimes when we see the big picture, there's many different components of Deming's teachings. But if you had to bring it down to kind of its core, you know, he mentioned on that video that I just watched this morning, he mentioned reduced variation, and that will get you lower costs, happier customers, more jobs. How would you say, after you've looked at it from so many different angles over so many different years, how would you say you would sum up Dr. Deming's message to the world?   0:13:01.5 William Scherkenbach: Well, that's a difficult thing to sum up. Back then, when we did the video, which was in the early '80s, maybe '84, again, he had his 14 Points by then, but he hadn't, it hadn't really, the Profound Knowledge part of that wasn't there. Now, he had used what Shewhart said, and he had read, tried to read CI Lewis, and when he spoke about the connection between theory and questions, that's what he got from Shewhart and, well, and from Lewis, and a bunch of other pragmatist philosophers. So, he, you know, he was influenced by it, and, well, that's all I can say.   0:14:27.5 Andrew Stotz: So, let's go back in time. So, you're sitting in this classroom, you're intrigued, inspired. How did the relationship go at, towards the end of the class, and then as you finished that class, how did you guys keep in touch, and how did the relationship develop?   0:14:51.0 William Scherkenbach: Well, that is an interesting story. I usually am, well, I am introverted. So I had, after I moved from New York, I got a job at Booz Allen and Hamilton in Washington, DC. So in '74, when I got the degree from NYU, we moved to Silver Spring. And obviously, he's lived on Butterworth Place since there was a Butterworth Place. So we were able to, one of the things, and this is, well, I will say it, one of his advice to me, although he gave everyone an A, I later kidded him, he didn't remember that he gave me a B. No, he gave me an A. In any event, but one of his piece of advice was, you really don't need to join ASQC. You know more about quality than any of those inspectors. And so he had learned from the '50s in the past 20 years from the 50s that inspection wasn't going to do it. Well, I didn't take his advice, and I joined ASQC, and I was reading...   0:16:36.1 Andrew Stotz:Which for those who don't know is the American Society for...   0:16:41.6 William Scherkenbach: Quality Control, back then, now it's just the American Society for Quality. I had recommended when we did a big recommendations and forecasts for the year 2000 that quality, it should be the Society for Quality worldwide, but it's ASQ now. Let's see.   0:17:07.7 Andrew Stotz: So he recommended you don't join and you didn't follow his recommendation.    0:17:12.1 William Scherkenbach: I don't join, and I read an article, and it was by a professor in Virginia Tech, and he was showing a c-chart and the data were in control, and his recommendations were to penalize the people that were high and reward the people that were low, which is even back then, Dr. Deming was absolutely on track with that. If your process is in control, it doesn't make any sense to rank order or think that any of them are sufficiently different to reward or penalize. And I had never done this, but it was, I wrote a letter to quality progress. I sent a copy to Dr. Deming, and he said, "By golly, you're right on, that's great." And so I think it probably was '75, yeah, 1975. So I had been a year or so out, and he started inviting me over to his place at Butterworth, and we would go to the Cosmos Club. And that was a logistical challenge because at the time he had, well, his garage was a separate, not attached, it was in the backyard and emptied onto an alley. And he had a huge Lincoln Continental, the ones with the doors that opened from the center.   0:19:29.0 William Scherkenbach: And he would get in and drive and then park it in back of the club and someone would watch over it. But those were some good memories. So that was my introduction to keep contact with him. As I said, I had never done that. I don't think I've written a letter to an editor ever again.   0:20:04.8 Andrew Stotz: And you're mentioning about Butterworth, which is in DC.   0:20:12.6 William Scherkenbach: Butterworth Place, yeah.   0:20:14.7 Andrew Stotz: And Butterworth Place where he had his consulting business, which he ran, I believe, out of his basement.   0:20:18.3 William Scherkenbach: Out of the basement, yep, yep, yep.   0:20:21.2 Andrew Stotz: And just out of curiosity, what was it like when you first went to his home? Here, you had met him as your teacher, you respected him, you'd been away for a little bit, he invited you over. What was that like on your first walk into his home?   0:20:38.5 William Scherkenbach: Well, went down the side, the entrance to the basement was on the side of the house, and Seal had her desk set up right by the door. And then, I don't know if you can see, this is neat compared to his desk. It was filled with books and papers, but he knew where everything was. But it was a very cordial atmosphere.   0:21:25.2 Andrew Stotz: So when you mentioned Cecelia Kilian, is that her name, who was his assistant at the time?   0:21:36.3 William Scherkenbach: Yes, yes.   0:21:38.0 Andrew Stotz: Okay, so you...   0:21:38.8 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. For Jeepers. I don't know how long, but it had to be 50 years or so. So I don't, I mean, back in the '70s, I don't know of any other. He might have had, well, okay. He, yeah.   0:22:01.1 Andrew Stotz: I think it's about 40 or 50 years. So that's an incredible relationship he had with her. And I believe she wrote something. I think I have one of her, a book that she wrote that described his life. I can't remember that one right now but...   0:22:14.2 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. A lot of, yeah, it contained a lot of...   0:22:16.6 Andrew Stotz: The World of Dr. W. Edwards Deming, I think was the name of it, yeah.   0:22:20.6 William Scherkenbach: Okay. It contained a lot of his diaries on a number of his visits to Japan and elsewhere.   0:22:32.1 Andrew Stotz: So for some of us, when we go into our professor's offices, we see it stacked full of papers, but they've been sitting there for years. And we know that the professor just doesn't really do much with it. It's just all sitting there. Why did he have so much stuff on it? Was it incoming stuff that was coming to him? Was it something he was writing? Something he was reading? What was it that was coming in and out of his desk?   0:22:55.7 William Scherkenbach: A combination of stuff. I don't know. I mean, he was constantly writing, dictating to seal, but writing and reading. He got a, I mean, as the decades proceeded out of into the '80s, after '82, the NBC white or the '80, the NBC white paper calls were coming in from all over, all over the world. So yeah, a lot of people sending him stuff.   0:23:35.8 Andrew Stotz: I remember seeing him pulling out little scraps of paper at the seminar where he was taking notes and things like that at '90. So I could imagine he was just prolific at jotting things down. And when you read what he wrote, he really is assembling a lot of the notes and things that he's heard from different people. You can really capture that.   0:23:59.0 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. He didn't have an identic memory, but he took notes and quite, you know, and what he would do at the end of the day before retiring, he'd review the notes and commit them to memory as best he could. So he, yeah, very definitely. I mean, we would, you know, and well, okay. We're still in the early days before Ford and GM, but.   0:24:37.6 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. And I want to, if I shoot forward to '90, '92, when I studied with him, I was impressed with his energy at his age and he was just on a mission. And when I hear about your discussion about the class and at that time, it's like he was forming his, you know, System of Profound Knowledge, his 14 Points. When do you think it really became a mission for him to help, let's say American industry?   0:25:09.0 William Scherkenbach: Oh, well, I think it was a mission when Ford began its relationship with him. The ability of a large corporation, as well, and Ford at the same time Pontiac, the Pontiac division, not the whole GM, but Pontiac, was learning as well. But the attachment to Ford was that you had Don Peterson at the time was president of Ford, and he was intellectually curious, and he and Deming were on the same frequency. Now, I don't want to jump ahead, but if anyone has, well, you've read my second book there, you'll know that I have mentioned that the way to change is physical, logical, and emotional. And when you look at the gurus back then, there was Deming, who was the logical guru. You had Phil Crosby, who was the emotional guru. You go to the flag and the wine and cheese party, and Deming would say, "No," and Joe Juran, who was interested in focusing on the physical organization, you report to me kind of a thing. And so each of these behemoths were passing each other in the night with the greatest respect. But, but, and so they had their constituents. The challenge is to be able to broaden the appeal.    0:27:33.8 Andrew Stotz: So we've gone through '72, and then now '75, you've written your piece, and he's brought you into the fold. You're starting to spend some time with him. I believe it was about 1981 or so when he started working with Ford. And at that time, the quality director, I think, was Larry Moore at the time. And of course, you mentioned Donald Peterson. Maybe you can help us now understand from your own perspective of what you were doing between that time and how you saw that happening.   0:28:13.4 William Scherkenbach: Well, I had, my career was, after Booz Allen, mostly in the quality reliability area. I went from Booz Allen and Hamilton to, I moved to Columbia, Maryland, because I can fondly remember my grandfather in Ironwood, Michigan, worked at the Oliver Mine. There's a lot of iron ore mines up in the UP. ANd he would, and his work, once he got out of the mines later on, was he would cut across the backyard, and his office was right there. And so he would walk home for lunch and take a nap and walk back. And I thought that really was a good style of life. So Columbia, Maryland, was designed by Rouse to be a live-in, work-in community. And so we were gonna, we moved to Columbia, and there was a consulting firm called Hitman Associates, and their specialty was energy and environmental consulting. So did a bunch of that, worked my way up to a vice president. And so, but in '81, Deming said, you know, Ford really is interested. He was convinced, and again, it's déjà vu, he spoke about, when he spoke fondly about his lectures in Japan in 1950 and onward, that he was, he was very concerned that top management needed to be there, because he had seen all the excitement at Stanford during the war, and it died out afterwards, because management wasn't involved.   0:30:42.8 Andrew Stotz: What do you mean by that? What do you mean by the excitement at Stanford? You mean people working together for the efforts of the war, or was there a particular thing that was happening at Stanford?   0:30:51.7 William Scherkenbach: Well, they were, he attributed it to the lack of management support. I mean, they learned SPC. We were able to improve quality of war material or whatever, whoever attended the Stanford courses. But he saw the same thing in Japan and was lucky to, and I'm not sure if it was Ishikawa. I'm just not sure, but he was able to get someone to make the call after a few of the seminars for the engineers to make the call to the top management to attend the next batch. And he was able, he was able to do that. And that he thought was very helpful. I, I, gave them a leg up on whatever steps were next. I'm reminded of a quote from, I think it was Lao Tzu. And he said that someone asked him, "Well, you talk to the king, why or the emperor, why are things so screwed up?" And he said, "Well, I get to talk to him an hour a week and the rest of the time his ears are filled with a bunch of crap." Or whatever the Chinese equivalent of that is. And he said, "Of course the king isn't going to be able to act correctly." Yeah, there are a lot of things that impacted any company that he helped.   0:33:07.6 Andrew Stotz: It's interesting because I believe that, I think it was Kenichi Koyanagi.   0:33:15.8 William Scherkenbach: Koyanagi, yes, it was.   0:33:17.8 Andrew Stotz: And it was in 1950 and he had a series of lectures that he did a series of times. But it's interesting that, you know, that seemed like it should have catapulted him, but then to go to where you met him in 1972 and all that, he still hadn't really made his impact in America. And that's, to me, that's a little bit interesting.   0:33:44.4 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, and quite, my take, I mean, you could tell even in '72 and '3 in classes, he was very frustrated that he wasn't being listened to. I mean, he had, his business was expert testimony in statistical design of surveys. He did road truck, truck transport studies to be able to help the interstate commerce commission. And made periodic trips back to Japan, well known in Japan, but frustrated that no one really knew about him or wasn't listening to him in the US. And that was, I mean, for years, that was my, my aim. And that is to help him be known for turning America around, not just Japan. But it's usually difficult. I mean, we did a great job at Ford and GM and a bunch of companies, but it's all dissipated.   0:35:25.9 Andrew Stotz: It's interesting because it's not like he just went as a guest and gave a couple of guest lectures. He did about 35 lectures in 1950. About 28 or almost 30 of them were to engineers and technical staff. And then about seven of them were to top level executives. And, you know, one of the quotes he said at the time from those lectures was, "the problem is at the top, quality is made in the boardroom." So just going back, that's 1950, then you meet him in 1970, then in '72, then you start to build this relationship. You've talked about Booz Allen Hamilton. Tell us more about how it progressed into working more with him, in particular Ford and that thing that started in, let's say, 1981 with Ford.   0:36:22.0 William Scherkenbach: Well, again, he was very enthusiastic about Ford because Peterson was very receptive to this, his approach. And again, it's, I think the British philosopher Johnson said, "there's nothing like the prospect of being hung in the morning to heighten a man's senses." So he, Ford had lost a couple billion bucks. They hadn't cashed in like Chrysler. GM lost a bunch too, but that, and Japan had lost a war. So does it take a significant emotional, logical, or physical event? For some folks it does. So he was very encouraged about what he was seeing at Ford. And he had recommended that Ford hire someone to be there full time to coordinate, manage, if you will. And I was one of the people he recommended and I was the one that Ford hired. So I came in as Director of Statistical Methods and Process Improvement. And they set it up outside, as Deming said, they set it up outside the quality. Larry Moore was the Director of Quality and I was Director of Statistical Methods. And that's the way it was set up.   0:38:08.0 Andrew Stotz: Were you surprised when you received that call? How did you feel when you got that call to say, "Why don't you go over there and do this job at Ford?"   0:38:18.6 William Scherkenbach: Oh, extremely, extremely happy. Yeah. Yeah.   0:38:23.1 Andrew Stotz: And so did you, did you move to Michigan or what did you do?   0:38:27.7 Andrew Stotz: I'm sorry?   0:38:29.4 Andrew Stotz: Did you move or what happened next as you took that job?   0:38:32.0 William Scherkenbach: Oh yeah, we were living in Columbia. We moved the family to the Detroit area and ended up getting a house in Northville, which is a Northwest suburb of Detroit.   0:38:49.9 Andrew Stotz: And how long were you at Ford?   0:38:53.8 William Scherkenbach: About five and a half years. And I left Ford because Deming thought that GM needed my help. Things were going well. I mean, had a great, great bunch of associates, Pete Chessa, Ed Baker, Narendra Sheth, and a bunch of, a bunch of other folks. Ed Baker took the directorship when I left. That was my, well, I recommended a number of them, but yeah, he followed on. Deming thought that there was a good organization set up. And me being a glutton for punishment went to, well, not really. A bunch of great, great people in GM, but it's, they were, each of the general managers managed a billion dollar business and a lot of, difficult to get the silos to communicate. And it really, there was not much cooperation, a lot of backstabbing.   0:40:25.0 Andrew Stotz: And how did Dr. Deming take this project on? And what was the relationship between him and, you know, let's say Donald Peterson, who was the running the company and all the people that he had involved, like yourself, and you mentioned about Ed Baker and other people, I guess, Sandy Munro and others that were there. And just curious, and Larry Moore, how did he approach that? That's a huge organization and he's coming in right at the top. What was his approach to handling that?   0:41:02.1 S2  Well, my approach was based on his recommendation that the Director of Statistical Methods should report directly to the president or the chairman, the president typically. And so based on that, I figured that what I would, how we would organize the office, my associates would each be assigned to a key vice president to be their alter ego. So we did it in a, on a divisional level. And that worked, I think, very well. The difficulty was trying to match personalities and expertise to the particular vice president. Ed Baker had very good relations with the Latin American organization, and, and he and Harry Hannett, Harold Hannett helped a lot in developing administrative applications as well. And so we sort of came up with a matrix of organization and discipline. We needed someone for finance and engineering and manufacturing, supply chain, and was able to matrix the office associates in to be able to be on site with those people to get stuff, to get stuff done.   0:43:09.5 Andrew Stotz: And what was your message at that time, and what was Dr. Deming's message? Because as we know, his message has come together very strongly after that. But at that point, it's not like he had the 14 Points that he could give them Out of the Crisis or you could give them your books that you had done. So what was like the guiding philosophy or the main things that you guys were trying to get across?   0:43:35.9 William Scherkenbach: Well, I mean, he had given in, I think, Quality, Productivity, Competitive Position back in the late '70s, and he was doing it through George Washington University, even though Myron Tribus at MIT published it. But it was a series of lectures, and he didn't really, even in the later 70s, didn't have the, the, the 14 Points. And so those came a couple years later, his thinking through, and Profound Knowledge didn't come until much later over a number of discussions of folks. But the, I mean, the key, I mean, my opinion of why it all dropped out is we dropped the ball in not working with the board. And at Ford, we didn't, weren't able to influence the Ford family. And so Peterson retires and Red Poling, a finance guy, steps in and, and everything slowly disintegrates. At least not disintegrates, well, yes. I mean, what was important under Peterson was different. But that happens in any company. A new CEO comes on board or is elected, and they've got their priorities based, as Deming would say, on their evaluation system. What's their, how are they compensated?   0:45:46.8 William Scherkenbach: And so we just didn't spend the time there nor at GM with how do you elect or select your next CEO? And so smaller companies have a better, I would think, well, I don't know. I would imagine smaller companies have a better time of that, especially closely held and family held companies. You could, if you can reach the family, you should be able to get some continuity there.   0:46:23.5 Andrew Stotz: So Donald Peterson stepped down early 1995. And when did you guys make or when did you make your transition from Ford to GM?   0:46:38.5 William Scherkenbach: '88.   0:46:39.6 Andrew Stotz: Okay, so you continued at Ford.   0:46:42.1 William Scherkenbach: The end of '88, yeah, and I left GM in '93, the year Dr. Deming died later. But I had left in, in, well, in order to help him better.   0:47:07.8 Andrew Stotz: And let's now talk about the transition over to General Motors that you made. And where did that come from? Was it Dr. Deming that was recommending it or someone from General Motors? Or what...   0:47:21.4 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, Deming spoke with them and spoke with me. And I was a willing worker to be able to go where he thought I could be most helpful.   0:47:41.9 Andrew Stotz: And was he exasperated or frustrated that for the changes that happened in '95 when Peterson stepped down, he started to see the writing on the wall? Or was he still hopeful?   0:47:55.4 William Scherkenbach: No, Deming died in '93, so he didn't see any of that.   0:47:58.9 Andrew Stotz: No, no, what I mean is when Peterson stepped down, it was about '85. And then you remain at Ford until '88.   0:48:08.0 William Scherkenbach: No, Peterson didn't step down in '85. I mean, he was still there when I left.   0:48:14.0 Andrew Stotz: So he was still chairman at the time.   0:48:17.3 William Scherkenbach: Yeah.   0:48:17.6 Andrew Stotz: Maybe I'm meaning he stepped down from president. So my mistake on that.   0:48:20.3 William Scherkenbach: Oh, but he was there.   0:48:24.3 Andrew Stotz: So when did it start...   0:48:25.9 William Scherkenbach: True. I mean, true, he was still there when Deming had died.   0:48:31.3 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, okay. So did the whole team leave Ford and go to GM or was it just you that went?   0:48:39.1 William Scherkenbach: Oh, just me. Just me.   0:48:42.8 Andrew Stotz: Okay. And then.   0:48:44.0 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, because we had set up something that Deming was very pleased with. And so they were, everyone was working together and helping one another.   0:48:59.5 Andrew Stotz: Okay. So then you went to General Motors. What did you do different? What was different in your role? What did you learn from Ford that you now brought to GM? What went right? What went wrong? What was your experience with GM at that time?   0:49:16.5 William Scherkenbach: Well, I've got a, let's see. Remember Bill Hoagland was the person, Hoagland managed Pontiac when Deming helped Pontiac and Ron Moen was involved in the Pontiac. But Bill Hoagland was in one of the reorganizations at GM was head of, he was group, group vice president for Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac. And so I went over and directly reported to him and each of the, I mean, Wendy Coles was in, Gypsy Rainey, although Gypsy was temporary, worked for powertrain and Pontiac and still, but powertrain was where a lot of the expertise was and emphasis was, and then Buick and Cadillac and so, and Oldsmobile. So we, and in addition to that, General Motors had a corporate-wide effort in cooperation with the UAW called the Quality Network. And I was appointed a member of that, of that and, and helped them a lot and as well as the corporate quality office, but focused on Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac.   0:51:18.6 Andrew Stotz: And then tell us about what was your next step in your own personal journey? And then let's now get into how you got more involved with Deming and his teachings and the like.   0:51:32.8 William Scherkenbach: Well, I mean, he would be at GM two and three days a month, and then every quarter he'd be here for, just like Ford, for a four-day seminar. And while at Ford and at GM, I took uh vacation to help him as he gave seminars and met people throughout the world. Even when he was probably 84, 85, I can remember, well, one of the, he always, not always, but he would schedule seminars in England over the Fourth of July because the English don't celebrate that, although he said perhaps they should, but right after the Ascot races. And so he would do four-day seminars. And on one case, we had one series of weeks, the week before Fourth of July, we did a four-day seminar in the US and then went to London to do another four-day seminar. And he went to South Africa for the next four-day seminar with Heero Hacquebord. I didn't go, but I went down to Brazil and I was dragging with that, with that schedule. So he was able to relish and enjoy the helping others. I mean, enjoy triggers a memory. We were at helping powertrain and Gypsy was there, Dr. Gypsy Rainey.    0:53:59.2 William Scherkenbach: And she, we were talking and goofing around and he started being cross at us. And Gypsy said, "Well, aren't we supposed to be having fun?" And Deming said, "I'm having fun." "You guys straighten out." Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy, yeah.   0:54:40.6 Andrew Stotz: And for the typical person to imagine a man at the age of 80, 85, traveling around the world. And it's not like you're traveling on vacation in London, you're walking into a room full of people, your energy is up, you're going and it's not like he's giving a keynote speech for an hour, give us a picture of his energy.   0:55:09.5 William Scherkenbach: And over in London, it was brutal because the hotel, I forget what hotel we're in. When he started there, I think it was Dr. Bernard that he wanted to help. And Bernard wasn't available. So he recommended Henry Neave. And so Henry was a good student, a quick learner. So he helped on a few of them. And I can still remember, I mean, the air, it was 4th of July in London and the humidity was there. There's no air conditioning in the hotel. I could remember Henry, please forgive me, but Henry is sitting in his doorway, sitting on a trash can, doing some notes in his skivvies. And it was hot and humid and awful. But so it reminded Deming a lot of the lectures in Japan in 1950, where he was sweating by 8 AM in the morning. So, yeah.   0:56:30.6 Andrew Stotz: What was it that kept him going? Why was he doing this?   0:56:39.5 William Scherkenbach: I think he, again, I don't know. I never asked him that. He was very, to me, he was on a mission. He wanted to be able to help people live better, okay, and take joy in what they do. And so he was, and I think that was the driving thing. And as long as he had the stamina, he was, he was in, in, in heaven.   0:57:21.1 Andrew Stotz: So let's keep progressing now, and let's move forward towards the latter part of Dr. Deming's life, where we're talking about 1990, 1988, 1990, 1992. What changed in your relationship and your involvement with what he was doing, and what changes did you see in the way he was talking about? You had observed him back in 1972, so here he is in 1990, a very, very different man in some ways, but very similar. How did you observe that?   0:57:56.6 William Scherkenbach: Well, toward the end, it was, I mean, it was, it was not, not pleasant to see him up there with oxygen up his nose, and it just, there had to have been a better way. But Nancy Mann was running those seminars, and they did their best to make life comfortable, but there had to have been a better way to, but I don't know what it was. He obviously wanted to continue to do it, and he had help doing it, but I don't know how effective the last year of seminars were.   0:59:01.1 Andrew Stotz: Well, I mean, I would say in some ways they were very effective, because I attended in 1990 and 1992, and I even took a picture, and I had a picture, and in the background of the picture of him is a nurse, and for me, I just was blown away and knocked out. And I think that one of the things for the listeners and the viewers is to ask yourself, we're all busy doing our work, and we're doing a lot of activities, and we're accomplishing things, but for what purpose, for what mission? And I think that that's what I gained from him is that because he had a mission to help, as you said, make the world a better place, make people have a better life in their job, and help people wake up, that mission really drove him.   0:59:57.8 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, and it, it really did. But for me personally, it was just not pleasant to see him suffering.    1:00:09.6 Andrew Stotz: And was he in pain? Was he just exhausted? What was it like behind the scenes when he'd come off stage and take a break?   1:00:18.7 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, yeah.   1:00:20.8 Andrew Stotz: And would he take naps or?   1:00:23.2 William Scherkenbach: In the early days, we'd go to, well, at Ford and GM, we would go out to dinner just about every night and talk and enjoy the conversation. We'd, my wife Mary Ellen, went many, many times. He enjoyed Northville, some of the restaurants there, and enjoyed the Deming martinis after the meetings at the Cosmos Club. So very, very much he enjoyed that, that time off the podium. So, but he couldn't do that in the, in the later years.   1:01:28.7 Andrew Stotz: And let's now try to understand the progression as you progress away from General Motors and did other things. How did your career progress in those years until when you retired or to where you are now? Maybe give us a picture of that.   1:01:51.4 William Scherkenbach: I tried to help. I've developed my view on how to operationalize change, worked for, was vice president of a company in Taiwan, spent a couple of, and before that had helped Dell, and would spend probably ending up a couple of years in PRC and Taiwan, and growing and learning to learn, in my opinion, there's too much generalization of, well, Asians or Chinese or whatever. There are many, many subgroups, and so change has to be bespoke. What will work for one person won't work for another. For instance, trying to talk to a number of Chinese executives saying, drive out fear, and they will, oh, there's no fear here. It's respect. And so, yeah. But that was their sincere belief that what they were doing wasn't instilling fear. But it broadened my perspective on what to do. And then probably 10 years ago, my wife started to come down with Alzheimer's, and while we lived in Austin, Texas, and that I've spent, she died three years ago, but that was pretty much all-consuming. That's where I focused. And now it's been three years. I'm looking, and I'm a year younger than Deming when he started, although he was 79 when he was interviewed for the 1980 White Paper.   1:04:36.3 William Scherkenbach: So I'm in my 80th year. So, and I'm feeling good, and I also would like to help people.   1:04:46.6 Andrew Stotz: And I've noticed on your LinkedIn, you've started bringing out interesting papers and transcripts and so many different things that you've been coming out. What is your goal? What is your mission?   1:05:02.3 William Scherkenbach: Well, I also would like to take the next step and contribute to help the improvement, not just the US, but any organization that shows they're serious for wanting to, wanting to improve. On the hope, and again, it's hope, as Deming said, that to be able to light a few bonfires that would turn into prairie fires that might consume more and more companies. And so you've got to light the match somewhere. And I just don't know. Again, I've been out of it for a number of years, but I just don't know. I know there is no big company besides, well, but even Toyota. I can remember Deming and I were in California and had dinner. Toyoda-san and his wife invited Deming and me to a dinner. And just, I was blown away with what he understood responsibilities were. I don't know, although I do have a Toyota Prius plug-in, which is perfect because I'm getting 99 miles a gallon because during my, doing shopping and whatever here in Pensacola, I never use gas. It goes 50 miles without needing to plug in.   1:07:00.6 William Scherkenbach: And so I do my stuff. But when I drive to Texas or Michigan, Michigan mostly to see the family, it's there. But all over, it's a wonderful vehicle. So maybe they're the only company in the world that, but I don't know. I haven't sat down with their executive.   1:07:26.4 Andrew Stotz: And behind me, I have two of your books, and I just want to talk briefly about them and give some advice for people. The first one is The Deming Route to Quality and Productivity: Roadmaps and Roadblocks, and the second one is Deming's Road to Continual Improvement. Maybe you could just give some context of someone who's not read these books and they're new to the philosophy and all that. How do these books, how can they help them?   1:07:58.8 William Scherkenbach: Well, the first book, Deming asked me to write in, I think it was '84. And I don't remember the first edition, but it might be '85, we got it out. But he asked me to write it, and because he thought I would, I could reach a different audience, and he liked it so much, they handed it out in a number of his seminars for a number of years. So.   1:08:40.7 Andrew Stotz: And there's my original version of it. I'm holding up my...    1:08:47.0 William Scherkenbach: Yeah, that's a later version.   1:08:49.7 Andrew Stotz: And it says the first printing was '86, I think it said, and then I got a 1991 version, which maybe I got it at one of the, I'm sure I got it at one of the seminars, and I've had it, and I've got marks on it and all that. And Deming on the back of it said, "this book will supplement and enhance my own works in teaching. Mr. Scherkenbach's masterful understanding of a system, of a process, of a stable system, and of an unstable system are obvious and effective in his work as well as in his teaching." And I know that on Deming's Road to Continual Improvement, you do a good amount of discussion at the beginning about the difference between a process and a system to try to help people understand those types of things. How should a reader, where should they start?   1:09:42.8 William Scherkenbach: Well, not with chapter six, as in CI Lewis, but well, I don't know what... I don't remember what chapter six is. As I said, the first book, and a lot of people after that did it, is essentially not regurgitating, but saying in a little bit different words about Deming's 14 Points. What I did on the first book is arrange them in the order that I think, and groupings that I think the 14 Points could be understood better. The second book was, the first half was reviewing the Deming philosophy, and the second half is how you would go about and get it done. And that's where the physiological, emotional, and all of my studies on operationalizing anything.   1:10:55.4 Andrew Stotz: And in chapter three on page 98, you talk about physical barriers, and you talk about physical, logical, emotional. You mentioned a little bit of that when you talked about the different gurus out there in quality, but this was a good quote. It says, Dr. Deming writes about the golfer who cannot improve his game because he's already in the state of statistical control. He points out that you have only one chance to train a person. Someone whose skill level is in statistical control will find great difficulty improving his skills.   1:11:32.1 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, well, you're old enough to know the Fosbury Flop. I mean, for all high jumpers did the straddle in jumping and made some great records, but many of them had difficulty converting their straddle to the Fosbury Flop to go over backwards head first. And that's what got you better performance. So anything, whether it's golf or any skill, if you've got to change somehow, you've got to be able to change the system, which is whether you're in production or whether it's a skill. If you're in control, that's your opportunity to impact the system to get better.   1:12:40.3 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, and this was Dick Fosbury in 1968, Mexico City Olympics, where he basically went in and blew everybody away by going in and flipping over backwards when everybody else was straddling or scissors or something like that. And this is a great story.   1:12:57.0 William Scherkenbach: You can't do that.   [laughter]   1:12:58.8 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, and it's a great story of something on the outside. An outsider came in and changed the system rather than an existing person within it. And that made me think about when you talked about Ford and having an outsider helping in the different departments. You know, what extent does that reflect the way that we learn? You know, can we learn internally, or do we need outside advice and influence to make the big changes?   1:13:29.7 William Scherkenbach: Yeah. I mean, we had a swim coach, Higgins, at the Naval Academy, and he was known for, again, following in Olympic swimming. And I'm probably going to get the strokes wrong, but there was no such thing as a butterfly stroke. And he used it in swimming the breaststroke, and supposedly the only criteria was recovery had to be underwater with two hands. But I'm screwing up the story, I'm sure, but Higgins rewrote, rewrote the book by doing something a little bit different or drastically different.   1:14:25.4 Andrew Stotz: I'd like to wrap up this fascinating discovery, or journey of discovery of you and your relationship also with Dr. Deming. Let's wrap it up by talking about kind of your final memories of the last days of Dr. Deming and how you kind of put that all in context for your own life. And having this man come in your life and bring you into your life, I'm curious, towards the end of his life, how did you process his passing as well as his contribution to your life?   1:15:08.1 William Scherkenbach: That's, that's difficult and personal. I, he was a great mentor, a great friend, a great teacher, a great person, and with, on a mission with a name and impacted me. I was very, very lucky to be able to, when I look back on it, to recognize, to sign up for his courses, and then the next thing was writing that letter to the editor and fostering that relationship. Very, very, very difficult. But, I mean, he outlived a bunch of folks that he was greatly influenced by, and the mission continues.   1:16:34.1 Andrew Stotz: And if Dr. Deming was looking down from heaven and he saw that you're kind of reentering the fray after, you know, your struggles as you've described with your wife and the loss of your wife, what would he say to you now? What would he say as your teacher over all those years?   1:16:56.3 William Scherkenbach: Do your best.   1:16:59.0 Andrew Stotz: Yeah, wonderful.   1:17:01.4 William Scherkenbach: He knows, but he knows I know what to do. So, you need to know what to do and then to do the best. But I was, I mean, he was very, he received, and I forget the year, but he was at Ford and he got a call from Cel that his wife was not doing well. And so we, I immediately canceled everything and got him to the airport and he got to spend that last night with his wife. And he was very, very appreciative. So I'm sure he was helping, helping me deal with my wife.   1:17:56.4 Andrew Stotz: Yeah. Well, Bill, on behalf of everyone at the Deming Institute and myself personally, I want to thank you for this discussion and opening up you know, your journey with Dr. Deming. I feel like I understand Dr. Deming more, but I also understand you more. And I really appreciate that. And for the listeners out there, remember to go to Deming.org to continue your journey. And also let me give you, the listeners and viewers, the resources. First, we have Bill's book, which you can get online, The Deming Route to Quality and Productivity. We have Deming's Road to Continual Improvement, which Bill wrote. But I think even more importantly is go to his LinkedIn. He's on LinkedIn as William Scherkenbach and his tagline is helping individuals and organizations learn, have fun, and make a difference. So if you want to learn, have fun, and make a difference, send him a message. And I think you'll find that it's incredibly engaging. Are there any final words that you want to share with the listeners and the viewers?   1:19:08.9 William Scherkenbach: I appreciate your questions. In thinking about this interview, we barely scratched the surface. There are a ton of other stories, but we can save that for another time.   1:19:26.1 Andrew Stotz: Something tells me we're going to have some fun and continue to have fun in these discussions. So I really appreciate it and it's great to get to know you. Ladies and gentlemen.   1:19:36.7 William Scherkenbach: Thank you, Andrew.   1:19:37.7 Andrew Stotz: You're welcome. This is your host, Andrew Stotz, and I'm going to leave you with one of my favorite quotes from Dr. Deming, and that is that "people are entitled to joy in work."    

A version of this essay has been published by firstpost.com at https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/shadow-warrior-zohran-mamdani-and-the-coming-crisis-for-hindus-in-america-13908482.htmlI have long felt the Deep State works on a single playbook in its foreign policy: regime-change, or what is colloquially called ‘Color Revolutions'. It is a simple routine: in some remote country, declare the ruling dispensation to be mad dogs, and shoot them, metaphorically if not in reality. Anoint a ‘friend' as the new chief. All hail to him/her! The pliant media goes along.There have been innumerable such plays all over the world, and most of the time, the results have been bad to disastrous for the country in question. Just look at Ukraine, Iraq, Libya, and Syria for recent examples. Iran, too, when Mossadegh was toppled because of, what else, oil: BP was annoyed at him for nationalizing Iranian oil.As an aside, I have wondered why Deep State did not orchestrate a color revolution against the Nehru Dynasty. On the face of it, there were plenty of reasons to do so: Jawaharlal's embrace of the Soviet Union, Indira's defiance regarding East Pakistan, and so on. So why didn't they topple the Dynasty and install a puppet, as they did with Mohammed Yunus in Bangladesh?Maybe India was just too unimportant. Or maybe, just maybe, the Nehru Dynasty was in fact the Deep State puppet already in place. Was Jawaharlal hand-picked, and didn't even know?So is Zohran Mamdani's rise the first Color Revolution in the US? A friend claimed that it wasn't, and that Barack Obama was the first. That is a debatable point, but one could argue that Obama 1 & 2, and Obama 3 (Biden's term) were the worst presidencies in US history.While there have been many good opinion pieces written about Mamdani's rise and rise, for instance by Jaggi and Avatans Kumar, I would like to focus on the broader implications of what Deep State might achieve by rolling out a Color Revolution in its own backyard. It's one thing to mess up a far-off country, and entirely a different thing to screw up your own premier city. This is a high-risk (and presumably high-return) strategy for Deep State.Of course, the UK Deep State (aka Whitehall) may well be leading the US Deep State by the nose. I called it a “master-blaster” relationship, hat tip to Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome. This color revolution possibility is not something I invented out of thin air, I give due credit to, among others, San for noting this possibility, along with many other unusual things about the Mamdani campaign, including its connection to Soros, as well as the uncompromising religious bigotry and use of dog-whistles against, for instance, Jews and Hindus. So Zohran Mamdani is worth watching, and so is his father, Columbia Professor Mamdani, who wrote something alarming in his 2004 book Good Muslim, Bad Muslim: America, the Cold War, and the Roots of Terror: see an excerpt below that seems to justify suicide bombing as a tactic. Of course, he may just have been doing an academic analysis, and surely, what the father said cannot be attributed to the son, but we can wonder about early influences on Zohran.Beyond the personal proclivities of the man and family, there is a mixture of Islamist radicalism and extreme-left radicalism in Zohran Mamdani's background. Some have called his rise a victory for the Red-Green Alliance, which is of significance to India, because here too we have often seen such a combination in play. Besides, it's notable that Mamdani has never said a word about atrocities committed on Hindus in Pakistan/Bangladesh or even in India, though he's quick to make up atrocity literature alleging “Gujarati Muslims have been wiped out” in India. About 10 million Gujarati Muslims may like to differ. Amazingly, the very people whom Mamdani is supposed to be emancipating, the underclass blacks and other low-income residents of NYC, did not vote for him. His victory in the Democratic primary came from young, well-off whites and “Asians” (the same Asians as in the UK?), and unions. That itself is telling. The bigger question, though, is how this relates to the eclipse of the West. I take the UK as Exhibit A. There was a recent article in the Economist magazine about how Britain is now a cheap country. In other words, the per capita income has fallen, and British assets are valued low, because there is a general perception of malaise, partly because manufacturing has collapsed.The headline is precious. It reminds me of the subtitle to Stanley Kubrik's “Dr Strangelove: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb”. Right on, cheers, tally-ho!It was hugely entertaining to also listen to an Economist podcast which suggested that a “services-led economy” would be the UK's savior. Raghuram Rajan, take a bow. Necessity being the mother of invention, I suppose. There is not a single product of British manufacturing that anybody wants (with the possible exception of Rolls-Royce aircraft engines). They were able to dump their inferior goods on defenseless colonies (read: India) but those days are over.They are now apparently depending on services (e.g., their journalism, which, with its clipped accents, impresses Americans, but is available to the highest bidder. The word “Presstitutes” leaps to mind). In addition, IT services, it seems, given their convenient time zone. And cheap IT labor. Yes, direct threat to India. Wipro, Infosys, TCS, I am sure are paralyzed with fear. The UK is, in many ways, the canary in the coalmine. Its precipitous decline is related to the fact that it is a small island off northwest Asia, whereas of course the US is a continent-sized country with massive resources. But the other factors: the previous holder of the global reserve currency, the previous dominant superpower, etc., are relevant to the US.To be honest, I have no idea what the UK's elites are thinking, because their current trajectory is going to end in disaster. As I have said before, they have fancied themselves as dealmakers extraordinaire, with Whitehall leading the world in mischief. But they were too clever by half: their homeland is collapsing. I don't mind, it's schadenfreude time, but I wonder what 3-d chess they are playing. I wonder if the US Deep State has a clue that the US could end up like the UK. The one thing that has sustained the UK in the last few decades is their financial services. But with the LIBOR scandal and Brexit, that game is also moving on: to Frankfurt, Singapore, Dubai (and eventually I guess GIFT City, India). The City of London, the name of the financial district, has been decimated. This is a warning to Wall Street in New York City.Another warning comes from California in general, and San Francisco in particular. Once the most appealing of American cities, it has been turned into a fetid, dangerous place full of yes, “street-shitters” and fentanyl addicts. The main culprit has been rule by left-wing extremists who put in place the ingredients for terminal decline: for instance, a moratorium on prosecuting any property crimes worth less than $950, which led to the hollowing out of retail downtown.I am not saying New York City is a pleasant place especially compared to what San Francisco was (I lived for a long time in the suburbs of both, so I have personal experience) but there is surely a lot that can go wrong with socialism of the Mamdani variety. Exhibits A, B, C: Venezuela, Cuba, etc. What is of more immediate concern to Hindus is that the US will become more dangerous for them. As it is, the amount of racial hatred and animosity towards brown Hindus has grown perceptibly, aided by social media ‘influencers' who are likely paid by ISI/CCP/Deep State. There is also the element of envy, as Hindus have risen to high positions, mostly by way of hard work and smarts. In analogy with Jews, this envy can turn into poisonous bigotry. We have seen how Kristallnachts develop. And then Final Solutions. The UK has seen, along with the growth of its Muslim population (“demography is destiny”) a concomitant level of animosity and violence against Hindus: see Leicester; and the British establishment is so afraid of Muslims that they will not take any steps to curb their acts. This is leading to clear and present danger for Hindus. We have seen this movie before.In addition to the increasing animosity towards H1-B holding Indians, who are predominantly Hindus, a victory for Zohran Mamdani will basically make it clear to US Hindus that their days are numbered, and that the US may rapidly follow the UK into societal and economic collapse. It's a sobering thought. Do we have a Plan B?1330 words, 15 Jul 2025 This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rajeevsrinivasan.substack.com/subscribe

I'm no complete Christian, but the bizarre act of hacking and spewing and gasping by whoever was next door while I was reading the Bible was telling of its claims. “that girl really fucked you over.” I wasn't sure what exactly the voice was besides the voice of God itself, or maybe even the same voice who had warned me who'd win the election and was right, and so eternally and internally always kind of a voice I trusted, and besides that, I was sure it see right. The evil girl next door had really fucked me over— not just in one way, but several, and finally culminating in no longer even having an apartment. She had fucked me out of an apartment! The more I complained about her door slamming, incessant obsessive stalking, and the way she played mind games whenever she could find me about in the small space between our two doors, it was nothing short of her method of targeted warfare— to have given me a plant was for her to be able to say she was trying to be my friend, but everything else she did around that was evil, and the more I complained about the door slamming, the stalking my door and setting up loud conversations just outside of it in order to irk me, slamming the door each time I took a bath or a shower, or used the toilet for several months, she had indeed fucked me over, and run me over, and I was lost— I didn't understand that people could just be like that and I didn't want to just attribute it to race, but she was a white girl, and all the red flags and flares indicated that the game she was playing was race war— her goal to return me to the streets or the shelter where she could presume her dominance in the structure of social culture because it made her so uncomfortable that we had the same thing. She had never been inside of my apartment, but she was aching the entire time to get in, and the entire overall factor was, that I just never felt safe around her, despite her broad gestures and gifs and supposed openness— her words and her presence spoke an entire hidden language, telltale signs of betrayal, and maliciousness, and as much as I wanted them all in my head, they were not. Now the new property manager seemed to be taking her side, and her actions seemed more egregious— knowing I had come here from the shelter meant that there were entire parties of people enraged that the city was helping people to come out of homelessness and to bridge the gap between homelessness and inequality, but it was easy to see over the course of the gentrification process that white people were mad at this equality, and acting out, and even acting very outrageous, and the problem with me personally was that I wasn't even from New York, or out of the system in a certain way, but the people who were treating me with such degradation and disrespect couldn't see that. They could only see “black” and “formerly homeless”. What's worse, is they couldn't see the many books I'd written or art I'd made, and this contributed to their overall devaluation in my kind— or worse, they could, like the girl next door, who had read an excerpt of my writing under the guise that she was a helpful person, and had become enraged with dissolution and jealousy; it was as if she couldn't understand that not only might I be equal to her, but even intellectually superior in a certain way, or at the very least artistically superior, and began to act in such a destructive way that paired with the noise form the morortcycles and incessant harassment from outside the apartment which bled into all spaces of the apartment throughout the day, combined with her incessant door slamming and disruption to anything I did while I was at “home”, which never felt like home because of these things exactly, it made me seem crazy and ungrateful any time I complained to the property management, and that seemed to be the game. I even surmised that she was connected to the noise from outside and the particular strangeness that someone seemed to be listening to me inside the apartment as well, as she had somehow seemed to know things I was talking about on my unpublished podcast episodes— things she could not have possibly heard from next door, which meant there was some sort of audio recording on the premises she had access too. It became a cat and mouse game, because she knew where I was in my apartment and began to attack my psyche anytime I was in the apartment, and especially when I attempted to create. Now, facing almost certain death and removal from the only stability I'd ever known, it was partially due to this incessant and rampant behavior that I was almost always at a loss. I had once again been bullied out of something I desperately needed by a white girl who felt justified and untouchable— only this time, it was more serious. I wasn't just in trouble at school, or some kind of job— she had manipulated things in such a way that this time I was out of a place to live— under the guise that she was a good person, giving gifts and acting strangely friendly, she had planted seeds and initiated acts of warfare, and in the recovery process of having left abusive situation after abusive situation, it was hard to wrap my mind around the fact that this was yet again another one. I kept telling myself it was only in my mind, despite the evidence of otherwise. That she was not evil but simply ignorant, or misguided, and aloof because of her privelege— but now, understanding that once again I may have no where in my own country to go, I understood the earth shattering truths of equality and integration, and gentrification. Not only did they want to bring in wealthy whites and Asians, they wanted (and needed) to push poor blacks and Latinos out, because of the value the white people placed in themselves. Too many of us made them feel weak and vulnarable, and insecure— and I was certaint that reading over my writing the girl had felt she'd met her match— that even my presence at all was a threat, not just because I was black, but because I was smart. So the way she contributed to the forces of white power was the simple way the race war continues to be fought— by working on the mind, forcing it to weaken and crumble by slamming things during times of vulnerability— baths, showers, toilet use— and that way, for months at a time, I no longer felt safe at all, and of course, it was ungrateful to complain— I should just be happy to have a place to sleep that was my own. But to have peace and quiet and sanity, recovery and health? How could I ever deserve that? In fact, I didn't deserve it, and they made it clear— and there surely was a dorrelation between the noise outside and the noise inside: somebody was trying to make a very violent point— and they were using me to do it. They had effectively dismantled my ability to focus, and the. Intercepted my strength— I had a Peloton for cardio, and a small treadmill— but lifting and strength training was out of the question; this was trademarked by the sudden appearance of a man paid to follow me into the small gym in the buildings— a man who looked enough like the man who had beat me in front of my two children, stolen my son and intercepted my every attempt to care for him, or even be in his life. This man, grunting and mumbling rap lyrics, would throw the 30 pound dumbbells from a over his head, sending them crashing to the floor across the room— absolutely unnecessary and unacceptable behavior, which I had at one point even captured on video, however, my visits to the gym ended when I decided to leave my phone in the apartment and I had been followed there by the same man, who threw the weights from above his head and acted like an animal. I simply picked up the weights and placed them on the treadmill as he lifted at the tension machine, grunting and mumbling rap lyrics, then silently walked away. I never returned to the gym again— this had gone too far, but overall since it was an obvious plan to diminish my ability to fight what was happening with the noise by staying strong, this strategy had worked. Now all I could realistically do was cardio, which took too much time and effort in order to reach what I had been doing in the gym beforehand— now that my psyche was being dismantled, it remained important to kee me awake during the day with the noise, so that I could not attend the gym at night, because I didn't have the energy to function anymore. I was a trapped animal, and these sick mind games were nothing short of warfare. It had to be a government institution or privatized force, because their resources were immense— nothing like this could happen without a militarized approach; weaponizing people as effective weapons and dismantling my livelihood by any way possible was indeed an act of torture and psycholical warfare. I was isolated, without family or friends, and disconnected from any stable income— job after job application not simply denied, but ignored, as if my efforts were going into a black hole of nothingness. Then, it did seem as if all of my technological communications had been altered-1 my phone calls monitored and my internet history avalible to someone unseen, but not unfelt. It just so happened that the neighbor might be one of them, and that because I had no way of continuing my training regimen without being followed by strange men, who would then act in abrasive ways to further psychologically destruct what should have been strength training and recovery, I was weakened, not by one thing, but an entire organization of many. Just then, writing and luckily somehow also recording, standing between the door and the bathroom after raising out of the bathtub, the merciless noise continued— a loud crash against the wall as I stood naked in the walkway of the apartment with a towel draped over my shoulders sent my heart shrieking and pounding into the cavern of my stomach— not just my entire heart racing but my gut wrenching with the beating of my heart…. “File that.” I was standing over the doorway in the bathroom, still gripping the pslams of the first testament in my hand, but I didn't understand anymore what things to ignore and what to not. I assumed that it was just more mind games and frequency manipulation and that God itself had nearly been lost. In my time in the apartment, I became more connected from disconnected from the source in the way I knew it and had learned how to internalize God. I could no longer pray freely out loud— someone was listening to me in my apartment, and when I did speak, the noise was arranged to rile up until it shattered me, and I was quiet again. —Tales of a Superstar DJ. When was he ever a long hair, but here? I went to bed two hours ago, But perhaps when I sleep I dream of you Suppose that waking life's a nightmare And when I look in the mirror I see your eyes there I need you to go to my apartment; I'll be dead by the time you get there; Don't worry, you won't find my body I went over the edge elsewhere I left you a note and some postcards; The letters I put in the post beforehand I need you to publish my books, my friend Or no one will ever know of them I left you a pen name Who are you Where you from What'd you do for ten years I dont know Congrats from your accolades From the academy Down the hatch The overwhelming message of the thing was, that because this girl was white, she could do whatever she wanted to me. To act however she pleased, or be as horrible as the wanted without recourse ir reprimand, and I could only assume that because I was now being pressured and rushed to hurriedly do things that I couldn't have done under the stress of the noise and harassment, that it was someone acting in favor of the regime of white dominance and structured power— that equality was not only ineffective, but impossible, because it was not what they wanted. The illusion of equality was better because in that way, they maintained control over our minds and our bodies in the same way slavery had structured—and though they could no longer truly own us in one way, they still could in another, and this is how they maintained their humiliation and disrespect, the dehumanization of war— by creating the illusion that it was peace. Copyright The Collective Complex © [The Festival Project, Inc. ™] All Rights Reserved -Ū.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.   Important Resources: Asian Refugees United: Website | Instagram | Learn about the Disappearances of Bhutanese American refugees: Website | Toolkit Hmong Innovating Politics: Website | Instagram Lavender Phoenix: Website | Instagram Minjoona Music: Instagram   Transcript: Cheryl (Host): Good evening. You're tuned in to Apex Express. I'm your host, Cheryl, and tonight we're diving into the vibrant summer programming happening across the AACRE network. That's the Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality Network. AACRE is made up of 11 Asian American social justice organizations working together to build collective power and create lasting movements .  Throughout tonight's show, we'll be spotlighting a few of these groups [00:01:00] and the incredible work they're leading this summer. First up, we're joined by Pratik from Asian refugees United Pratik. Thank you so much for being here. Do you mind introducing yourself and to kick things off in the spirit of tonight's show, maybe share what's something that's been bringing you joy this summer? Pratik (ARU): Hello, namaste everyone. My name is Pratik Chhetri. He, him. I'm the program manager at ARU, Asian Refugees United in Pennsylvania. I'm originally from Nepal. I grew up in Nepal. I am an immigrant, came to the for college long time ago. And I've been working in social justice, health justice field for over 15 years now. Initially it was mostly around advocacy policy relating to access to medicines, issues, especially in lower and middle income countries, and the past six, seven. More than seven [00:02:00] years. I also started an organization, a nonprofit organization in Nepal, that works at the intersection of social, economic and climate justice. And with ARU, I got introduced to ARU back in 2020. So by that time I had some skills that I felt I could bring to the community. Even though I'm not from Bhutanese refugee community, I speak the language, I understand the culture to a certain extent. So I felt with the linguistic skill I could be of some help. I think right around that time COVID happened, everything and end of 2021 is when I reconnected with Robin and started talking about possibilities. For about two years, I was part of the CAMP for Emerging Leaders, the leadership program ARU has, and [00:03:00] starting last year, early this year formally, I am a staff, for ARU. I'm in charge of programs under wellness, education, and civic engagement largely but depending on time and resources, I become available for other programs as well. It's a joy working with ARU. I was just telling Cheryl earlier that it doesn't feel like work ‘ cause I enjoy it, working with people, getting to work on impactful programs, and being a part of an organization that has so much potential, so much responsibility, but also trying to find new ways to become, useful for the community. That's very exciting. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): That's great. I'm glad that your work is what's bringing you joy this summer. That's so special. And before we get into some of that impactful programming that you've been running this summer, could you [00:04:00] tell us a little bit about, ARU, Asian Refugees United  Pratik (ARU): Sure. ARU started back in 2016 in California and back then all of the programs used to be in California. The community that ARU serves since then, and even to this day are Nepali speaking, Bhutanese refugee community and Vietnamese community, Korean and other Pan-Asian community. After the pandemic, there has been a lot of secondary migration of the Bhutanese folks from across the United States to two major locations. One being central PA around Harrisburg area and Pennsylvania, and the second one around Columbus, Ohio, and other major cities in Ohio. The secondary migration mostly to Pennsylvania triggered a, shifting of ARU programs, to Pennsylvania as well in addition to [00:05:00] California. So at this point in 2025, the Pennsylvania side of ARU caters to the Nepali speaking Bhutanese folks. And the California side of ARU works with Vietnamese, Korean, and other Asian communities. I work with the Pennsylvania, ARU, and here we have four different pillars around health and wellness, education, art and storytelling. And the fourth one is civic engagement, and that is the newest one. I can talk about programs under each of the pillars but for summer the programs that is bringing me joy, not only for me, but also ARU's staffs is this longitudinal five month long leadership program called Camp for Emerging Leaders, where we recruit Nepali speaking folks from all across United States, and they go through virtual sessions every other [00:06:00] week on, history to the story of displacement, intergenerational trauma. How it started, how it used to be back in Bhutan, how it used to be in the refugee camps in Nepal, and now how it is in the US and Canada, wherever they are. So end of summer, end of July, early August is when all of those cohort members, the youth leaders will come physically to Harrisburg and we'll spend a few days here connecting with each other, building that trust, but also working together to build projects for the community, addressing community challenges that's happening. And for that I think five or six of the ARU staff from California are also coming. We have guest speakers. I think one of them is coming from all the way from Australia. It's fun. Largely I think [00:07:00] I'm looking forward to meeting with all of these youth leaders who have so much potential to do, so much good, not only for Bhutanese community, Nepali speaking, south Asian community, but also, their potential goes beyond that, yeah.  Cheryl (Host): It is powerful to hear how ARU's work has evolved and now spans across the nation, and also how Camp for Emerging Leaders is creating space for Nepali speaking Bhutanese youth to reflect their community's history, build deep connections, and grow as leaders. You mentioned that during the summer youth leaders gather in Harrisburg to create community projects. Could you share more about what kinds of projects they're working on and what kind of issues they're hoping to address? Pratik (ARU): For education, one of the main ones that we just concluded is, so we started high school success program called First Step Forward. And the interesting thing, the exciting thing about this program [00:08:00] is the concept of First Step forward from one of the Camp for Emerging Leaders cohort from two years ago. And similarly so that's how most of ARU programs have been. The ARU Youth Center, the ARU Office, that concept also started from the camp for emerging leaders. There are a couple other programs ARU does. Youth Wellness Day. That started from the camp as well. For the First Step Forward, what we do is early winter of, I think January or February we accepted a cohort of 10. These were high school juniors and seniors, and largely the purpose of the program is to make sure that they are well equipped for college and for any other professional avenues they end up going even if higher education is not for them. We did a lot of like leadership sessions, public speaking [00:09:00] sessions, like how to write essays, how to apply for different scholarships. We just concluded it literally last Saturday, we went hiking and went to one of the Six Flags amusement parks. But learning from that program, we are scaling it up. We're taking 20 people next year, and we will do it a year long cohort. So starting from September up until May, June. We'll integrate college tours, not only for the kids, but also for their family because in Bhutanese community and Nepali speaking folks a lot of the times the parents do not understand how the system works, even with their best intent and best intention. So along with the students, it is very important for us to work with the family, the parents as much as possible to take them through the process, right? On education, we also do a lot of cultural navigation training to [00:10:00] different county level and different governance agencies. Some of the cultural navigation trainings that we did in the past year that I can think of is we did one for the. Panel of judges from Dauphin County, which is where Harrisburg is. We did similar thing for different school districts in Dauphin and Cumberland County, different nearby counties for juvenile probation unit, child and youth services. And while we do that, as an organization, it gave us a better sense of where the gaps are, especially for parents to run into difficulties. 'cause a lot of times, for example, if a kid is sent home with a sheet of paper, even when it's bilingual, because their movement happened from Nepal to Bhutan, such a long time ago, a lot of the folks in the community speak the language but do not understand how to read or write the [00:11:00] language. So there are double language barrier, right? When a kid is called into a meeting or a disciplinary meeting, the parents a lot of times don't even look at the sheet of paper or don't know where to show up or how to show up or what to expect. Based on those things we're using that knowledge and experience to design further programs in the future. That's just for education. With civic engagement, for example, this 2024 cycle was the first election for our community members to vote in their lifetime. Back in Bhutan they didn't have that opportunity and then they spent decades in refugee camps, and it took most of them some time to get the green cards and five years after Green card to secure their citizenship. So we saw a lot of even elderly folks show up to voting. That was their first time that they were voting. And when that happens, it's not [00:12:00] just generic voter education. It's teaching the community how to register, where to register, where to show up at the precincts. A lot of precincts we were seeing, 30 to 40% of the folks show up to the wrong precincts. So there's a lot of need, but also in 2024 we saw, unfortunately, a lot of folks fall victim to misinformation and disinformation. So there's that need to do something about that part as well in the future. One of the things we started doing under civic engagement work is not just teach folks where to register, how to register on voter education, but also preparing some of the community members to run for office.  Two or three weeks ago, mid-June, we did our first round of run for office training. We partner up with another organization called Lead PA. And even for the folks who showed up, all of us [00:13:00] are politically inclined, educated to a certain extent, and a lot of the things that were shared in that training, it was mostly new to us, especially around local government. Like what are the positions that they are and how so many important positions, people run unopposed and what kind of ramifications that might have for our daily lives. Right. Starting 2026 election cycle, we're hoping some of our trainees run for office as well, starting from school board to all the way, wherever they want to. And there are wellness focused events, youth wellness Day that I talked about, around mental health is one of the great needs for the community. One piece of data might be very important to mention, based on CDCs 20 12 data, there was a report out, the research was conducted in 2012, and the report came out in 2014, basically what it said [00:14:00] was, Bhutanese folks in the US have the highest of suicide in the whole nation, and that's something that has not received a lot of attention or resources because generally those numbers get mixed up with generic Asian data and the numbers get diluted. Right. So one of the things, what, as an organization, what we are trying to do is bring awareness to that number. And the other thing is like, it's been over 10 years since that study happened and there has not been a follow-up study. What we are seeing is previously how mental health and it's ramifications how it was affecting the community, it was mostly about 10 years ago, mostly affecting older folks. Now we are seeing a lot of younger folks commit suicide or suicidal attempts. So there is a lot of work in that respect as [00:15:00] well. These are also some of the very crucial topics to work on. But as an organization, we are taking baby steps toward being able to efficiently address the community needs. I missed some of them, but overall, our organizational goal is to empower the community in one way or the other. And one of the tools that we use is focusing on youths because youths in the community, similar to other immigrant communities, our youths are mostly bilingual, bicultural, and many times they're the translators and system navigators for their whole family. And in many cases their extended family as well. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Wow. There are so many layers to the work that you all do. From developing leaders to run for office, to supporting mental health, to helping folks navigate voting and helping folks access higher education or career pathways.[00:16:00]  That's such a wide scope, and I imagine it takes a lot to hold all of that. How do you all manage to balance so much, especially with a small team, is that right?  Pratik (ARU): Yes. Technically we only have one full-time staff. Most are part-time, but ranging from. 10% to 80%. Largely we rely on the community members, volunteers, and we pay the volunteers when we can. And other times, I think it speaks to how much time and effort and how genuinely, folks like Robin, who is the co ED of ARU and Parsu who is the office manager, and other folks in Harrisburg, connected with different community leaders, folks of different subgroups over the years. So. When ARU moved to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania post pandemic, it took them a while to get the hang of the community, the growing community. Back then it used to [00:17:00] be 10, 20,000 max in central PA and now our estimation is like 70, 80,000 in central PA. It took them a while to create space of trust, that ARU are people that they can come for when they run into problems. And even when we don't have a lot of resources, people show up. People volunteer. People volunteer their time, their spaces for meetings and events. Yeah. And that's how we've been running it. I feel like we do five or 10 x amount of work with the resources that we have, but that's largely because of the perception the community has about Robin, about Parsu, about other individuals, and about the organization.  Cheryl (Host): That's so amazing. ARU clearly has such deep community roots, not just through the incredible work that of course Robin, [00:18:00] Parsu and so many others you have named have done to build lasting relationships that now sustain the work in the organization, but also I think it's also evident in the examples you've shared through Camp for Emerging Leaders, how you all really listen to youth and learn from their experiences. And you all shape programs that respond directly to the needs that you're seeing. And in that same spirit of care and commitment that is reflected in ARU's amazing staff and volunteers. I'm curious, are there any moments or memories from camp for emerging leaders that stand out to you? I imagine there must be so many.  Pratik (ARU): Yeah. Many stories. I started attending and facilitating the sessions for the camp I from 2022 cohort and maybe even 23 cohort. I think this is the third one that I'm doing. I'll talk about Kamana. [00:19:00] Kamana joined the 23 cohort and at that time she was still in high school. But you know, she was bubbly, full of energy and she was one of the pretty active members of the cohort and eventually after the cohort, she ended up joining ARU as initially, I think as an intern, and now she is the lead of the education program. She will be a sophomore or rising junior, starting this fall. But now she'll be running the education program, First Step Forward. Primarily it was internally us staff, we see the growth in them with experience. But also I think one of the things that ARU does is we create a sort of non-hierarchical structure within our office space in the sense that anyone can [00:20:00] design a program or any idea, and they do not feel intimidated to speaking up. I think because of that, people like Kamana, I can talk about other folks like Nawal. Them growing within ARU space shows not just with experience, but also I think the kind of open and inclusive and non hierarchical space that we create they feel comfortable enough in leading. A lot of times when we have , X, y, and Z needs to be done in the group chat, people just volunteer. Even when they don't get paid, we see our staff, our volunteer base just show up time and time again. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Wow. ARU is such a special container. You've created this beautiful space where people can grow and then also have agency to shape that container in whatever way that they want. That is so special. How can listeners support your work this [00:21:00] summer? Whether that's showing up or donating or volunteering or spreading the word.  Pratik (ARU): One of the things is for the listeners, I feel like not a lot of folks know about Bhutanese community much. So yes, they speak Nepali. They sometimes they identify as Nepali because it's just easy. , Bhutanese folks normally identify as either Bhutanese or Nepali or American or any combination of those three identities. A lot of folks do not know, including folks from Nepal about the atrocity, the trauma that the community went through had to go through the forced persecution out of Bhutan and then living under very limited means while in the refugee camps in Nepal and even the number of challenges the community still [00:22:00] faces. I talked a little bit about mental health needs. There's. There are needs around, health seeking behavior and similar to other immigrant communities as well, but also, on education. Because of the historical division around caste and class and other demographic details, certain folks in the community are geared towards success versus others aren't. And we see that. We see the pattern quite distinct by their indigeneity, by their caste, by their last names. In our community you can tell what their caste is, what their ethnic background is with their last names. So I would invite the audience to learn a little bit more about this community and if you have that space and resources [00:23:00] to be, if you're a researcher, if you want to do some research studies, if you want to bring some programs. If you have scholarship ideas, if you want to create any scholarship for the kids in the community, or if you have means, and if you can donate, either or. It doesn't have to be just, financial resources. It can be sometimes being available as mentor to some of the kids to show them these are the possibilities. To summarize, learn more about the community if you don't know already including some of the new atrocities, the community's facing right now with ICE detention and deportation, even when the community was brought in to this country after years and years of approval through the process. And if you have resources and means help with knowledge sharing, being available or with [00:24:00] financial means either or. I just wanted to mention that I work with ARU and I work with the Bhutanese community, but like I said, I'm not from the Bhutan community. I grew up in Nepal. I speak the language, I understand the culture to a certain extent, but I definitely cannot speak for the experience of going and living as a refugee. So,, if you have any question, if you want to learn more about that, Cheryl and I, we are happy to put you in touch with folks with incredible stories, inspiring stories of resilience in the community. Cheryl (Host): Thank you so much. All of the links, whether to learn more, donate or get involved, as well as information about the disappearances impacting the Bhutanese American community will be included in our show notes. A huge thank you to Pratik from Asian Refugees United for joining us tonight. We're deeply grateful for the work you do and the love you carry for our [00:25:00] communities. To our listeners, thank you for tuning in. We're going to take a quick music break and when we come back we'll hear more about the summer programming happening across the AACRE network with folks from Lavender Phoenix, and Hmong innovating politics. So don't go anywhere. Next up, you're listening to a track called “Juniper” by Minjoona, a project led by Korean American musician, Jackson Wright. This track features Ari Statler on bass, josh Qiyan on drums, and Ryan Fu producing. Juniper is the lead single from Minjoona's newest release, the Juniper EP, a five track p roject rooted in indie rock, 60 throwback vibes, and lyric forward storytelling. You can follow Minjoona on Instagram at @minjoonamusic or find them on Spotify to keep up with upcoming releases. We'll drop the links in our show notes. Enjoy the track and we'll be right back. [00:26:00] [00:27:00] [00:28:00] [00:29:00] [00:30:00]  And we're back!!. You're listening to APEX express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley. 88.1. KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. That was “Juniper” by Minjoona.  Huge thanks to Jackson Wright and the whole crew behind that track [00:31:00] Before the break, we were live with Pratik from Asian Refugees United, talking about the powerful summer programming, supporting the Nepalese speaking Bhutanese community in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Now I'm joined by from Blair Phoenix. From Lavender Phoenix, who's here to share about her experiences as a summer organizer In Lav N'S annual summer in Lav N's annual summer organizer in Lav N'S annual summer organizing program. Hi Mar. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for being here. Do you mind introducing yourself to our listeners? Okay. Mar, do you mind for our listeners out there who are just tuning in, do you mind introducing yourself? Mar (LavNix): Yes. Thank you, Cheryl. Hi, y'all. My name is Mar Pronouns, [00:32:00] she/siya/any! I come from the lands of the Ibaloi people in the Philippines or “Maharlika”. I am a queer Muslim and yeah, I'm just happy to be here. Cheryl (Host): Yay. We're so happy to have you here, mar! For those who might not be familiar, Mar is joining us from Lavender Phoenix as part of this year's summer organizing program. Mar,, could you start by giving our listeners a quick introduction to Lavender Phoenix? And then could you tell us a little bit about the summer organizing program and what it's all about? Mar (LavNix): Yeah, of course. Cheryl. Let's start with Lavender Phoenix. Lavender Phoenix is a really awesome nonprofit over here in the Bay Area who focus on trans queer, API. Work basically. I really love Lavender Phoenix because of their unwavering commitment to collective liberation [00:33:00] and the very specific focus and centering around trans queer API leadership because our leadership is often underrepresented and because there's so many intersections there, we need to have trans queer API leadership to be able to move the work. And so really fond of lavender Phoenix's ethos and mission values. This year for the summer 2025, I'm part of their summer organizer program, which is a cohort of organizers both emerging, established and wanting to learn, and we learn a lot of transformative interpersonal organizing skills, but also building our more technical skill sets alongside with that. So we're actually three weeks from graduation [00:34:00] nooooooooo!. Anyways, yeah, just really happy to be in this cohort. I'm feeling really aligned in that I am here and it is transforming me in the way I had intentions for when I applied for it. Cheryl (Host): Wow. It sounds like this was a really impactful program for you. I wanna know what kinds of projects are you all working on?  Mar (LavNix): Yeah, so it's really beautiful because it's not just like a single project the cohort works on, it's kind of a myriad of things. We have two folks who are doing projects with other organizations, and then we have the rest of the folks working on two projects within Lavender Phoenix's programming. And so for my group, my very awesome group, we are doing the River of Life Project, and the River of Life Project is a five week long cohort where we practice storytelling in a very vulnerable and honest way, and this is for the [00:35:00] purpose to really witness one another and to cultivate our storytelling skills because our stories and narratives is so important. There's whole states and governments trying to take that away from us, and so our project is to guide and facilitate this project and meet with members across rank. It's super cool seeing the different facets of lavender Phoenix come together and be down, to be in the act of vulnerability and honesty and that is their praxis for collective liberation. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Yeah. Yeah. That's so well said. And it's so important that we have these spaces to practice that vulnerability because we are so often punished for being who we are. Right. So, mm-hmm. These programs are so crucial as you have uplifted for us. I am so curious to learn more about this River of Life project, but [00:36:00] also before we even get to that, I wanna zoom out a little bit and focus on your growth and who are you now as you get closer three weeks from graduation?  Mar (LavNix): Ooh, that is such a beautiful question, Cheryl. Yeah. I've been really reflecting on how this program transformed me this summer and to bring us back to when I first applied. I first applied sometime in March, I believe. I remember 'cause it was around Ramadan. I was at a point in my life where I felt stagnant in my organizing journey. I would attend all these workshops, I would keep reading, but there was a disconnect in how my mind wanted to move next. So here we are in 2025, I was accepted into the program. I was like, yay, my people. And you know, [00:37:00] my expectations was met. In fact, it was exceeded. Very exceeded because I didn't know these things that i'm learning now. I didn't know how much I needed them until I learned them. In my time with Lavender Phoenix, as I'm reflecting to this point, graduation being three weeks out, I realized that before joining this cohort, my heart and my spirit was in a really bad place, and I think a lot of people could resonate. There's genocides, ethnic cleansings, and just terrible things happening all over the world, and there's like a dichotomy of people who are trying so hard and then there's a dichotomy of people who are unaffected by it. And so my spirit and my heart was so broken down seems really dramatic, but it wasn't being rejuvenated for sure. And so, being in this space and being in a [00:38:00] container that's just honesty and vulnerability and it's all rooted in each other's liberation really replenish that cup. The teachings and the knowledge and the wisdom that I'm getting, it's helping me add more to my North Star, which I'm really thankful of because I didn't know this is what I needed in March. Cheryl (Host): That is so beautiful. So much of what's going on right now by the systems that be, the powers that be, it's meant to isolate us and to make us feel exactly what you said. Capitalism isolates us and keeps us in that place because that's how it benefits . So Lavender Phoenix is summer organizing program, what I'm hearing from you is this revolutionary space that is counter to that. It's filled with hope and dreaming for a better world. So how is that being informed in River of Life, in the storytelling leadership development that you are developing within Lavender Phoenix's membership?  Mar (LavNix): Oh, yes. I'm [00:39:00] understanding the responsibility on how I move in this space. And so before the cohort of the River of Life project presents, it's actually gonna be me and another facilitator going to share our stories. And so we're also in the act of being vulnerable and honest and really wanting the others to witness us as we will witness them. We've removed kind of that superiority in that space. When I think of this, it brings me back to Freire's idea of an engaged pedagogy, but not necessarily like an educator and a student, but like removing hierarchies, which I think is really, a value that's rooted in, or lavender Phoenix is rooted in that value. There's no hierarchy, but there is ranks and we all see each other as equals. It's really beautiful to be able to see that and then know how I move in this [00:40:00] space to prepare our cohort. I hope that my storytelling, I can only hope, I do not know how it's gonna be received inshallah it's received super well. But I really do hope that they see how vulnerable I also get and how I'm doing this so that I could build deeper relationships with these people as I continue my journey with Lavender, Phoenix and to them as well. I hope these values, if not already present in our people, this project helps them cultivate that even further.  Cheryl (Host): I wanna ask what is something you want to share with our listeners who were in a similar space as you who felt lost and that they wanted something to grow in. What advice would you give?  Mar (LavNix): This is a really beautiful question [00:41:00] and So many things flooded my brain as you were asking this question, but i'm feeling more pulled and called to share this one thing . As I'm going through the summer organizer program, I really realized the importance of tending to myself so that I could show up for others. I have to be able to know how to advocate for my needs and what I need so that I can be in spaces with other people. It's so important that I know how to acknowledge my shame or whatever pain points I'm experiencing and let that not be a hindrance to the work, but integrate it in a way that I will tend to it, and by tending to it, I can continue doing the work. And I know it's really [00:42:00] hard to prioritize yourself when it feels like you should prioritize everything else in the world right now, but I am really learning that that's what I needed to do. When I say prioritize myself, I'm not saying oh, I need to go do this and I need to go drink all my water. Yes, also care for our physical bodies and our mental bodies, but also taking time to know who I am as a person and what I could offer to the movement, and knowing how to communicate to others in the movement so that I could show up as a better organizer. And so the final words that I will have to share is I hope everyone who's hearing this shows the love that they have for other people to themselves [00:43:00] too.  Cheryl (Host): That was so beautiful. What you just shared right now about tending to yourself that's part of the work too. And that's so counterintuitive, I feel. This project that you're leading, the river of life where the focus is so much on your story and honoring who you are, I think that is the true essence of what it means to be trans and queer. Showing up with your whole self and embracing that. And in turn, by doing that, you are holding everybody else too, that very practice. To find out more about Lavender Phoenix Mar, how can our listeners plug into Lavender Phoenix's work?  Mar (LavNix): Follow us on Instagram or check out Lavender, Phoenix website. We post a lot. Sign up for the newsletter. Volunteer. We're really cool. Or just look at the staff and see if anybody calls you and you wanna hit them up. We're so awesome. Cheryl (Host): Thank you for joining us on tonight's show, Mar, and for sharing your experiences on Lavender Phoenix's [00:44:00] summer organizing program with all of All of the links that Mar mentioned on how to stay in touch with Lavender Phoenix's work be available in our show notes as per usual. We are so grateful, thank you again, Mar! Next up, we're joined by Katie from Hmong Innovating Politics. Katie. Welcome, welcome. I'm so happy to have you on our show tonight. Would you mind introducing yourself to our listeners? Katie (HIP): Hi everyone. My name is Katie. I use she her pronouns. My Hmong name is ING and I mainly introduce myself as ING to my community, especially elders because one ING is my given name. Katie is like a self-assigned name. In my work with HIP I've been trying to figure out what feels more natural when, but I do catch myself introducing myself to my Hmong community. And yeah, I'm totally cool if folks referring to me as Katie Oring and my ask is just pronouncing my name correctly. Who are my people? Who's my community? I would say my community is my family. And then the young people that I work [00:45:00] with, the elders in my community, the ones who would like to claim me, my team. I would say Hmong women that I've met through some of the work that I do at my volunteer org, and oh my goodness, there're so many people. My friends, oh my gosh, if my friends are listening to this, my friends are my community, they're my people. They keep me grounded, alive and fun. My siblings. All of the folks in Fresno and Sacramento that have been a part of the spaces that I've shared at HIP and the spaces that we've created together.  Cheryl (Host): You are a community leader through and through . For folks who are listening and don't know, Hmong Innovating Politics is one of the AACRE groups and it has two different hubs basically in Central California, one in Sacramento, and one in Fresno. Katie, do you mind sharing a little bit about HIP and the work that you all do? Katie (HIP): Yeah. So, we are a power building organization and what does that mean, right? One is that we are [00:46:00] a part of empowering and supporting our community to become active change makers in their community. We believe that those who are most impacted by issues should also be the ones that receive resources and training to lead solutions and design, the dreams of their community. A framework that we use is called Belong Believe Become. We want to create space where young people feel their belongingness, know that they are rooted here in their community, and that they have a place. The believing part of our framework is that we want young people to also see themselves and see themselves as leaders. In their community and leadership can mean many forms, right? There's like passive and active leadership, and we want young people to know that there is enough space in this world for everyone in whichever capacity, they're choosing to show up in their community. The important piece of believing is that, believing that you also like matter and that your decisions are also impactful. And then become is that. [00:47:00] we share this framework and it's circular because we notice that some people can come into our space feeling like I know exactly who I'm gonna be. I know exactly what I wanna do, and feel really disconnected from their history and their, and the multiple parts of their identities. belong, believe become is cyclical and it's wherever you're at. And in this third piece of becoming it is that our young people know that they are leading the charge and transforming systems. That they are shifting the narratives of our community, that they get to own the narratives of our community, and that they are a part of the Power building our community as well. Cheryl (Host): Yeah, I love that . As we're talking, I'm noticing that you talk so much about young people and how so much of your work's framework is centered around young people. Do you mind giving context into that? So much of HIP's programming is on youth leadership, and so I'm wondering what does that look like programming wise and especially right now in the summer? Katie (HIP): Yeah, so it's more [00:48:00] recently that HIP has been identifying ourselves as a power building organization. Before we had claimed our work as base building, and this is through our civic engagement work for voter engagement and empowerment, and turning out the vote that, that is like what we, our organization was like centered on. Through that work, what we noticed was that like cycles and seasons after season, it was young people coming back and then they started asking are you all gonna have like consistent programming space for us, or is it just gonna always be around the election cycle? Through our civic engagement work, a framework that we use is the IVE model, integrated voter engagement. And that is that you are relationship building year after year, even outside of the election season. And so then it was how do we be more intentional about centering the people who are coming to us and centering the people who are shifting and challenging and pushing our leadership. And that was to [00:49:00] then move and prioritize the young people in our community. I think it's been maybe four or five years since this shift where we've really prioritized young people and really centered our work around youth justice. So then we had to create these spaces. Civic engagement work had primarily consisted of phone banking and canvassing and through that I think a lot of young people were then getting firsthand experience of this is like what it's like to be angry about these issue in my community. This is also what it's like to hold space for other people to go through and process their emotions. And then it was like, how do we train and skill up our young people to not only listen to their community, but be able to strategize and lead and take their ideas and dreams and put 'em into action. At the time folks working in our civic engagement programs were high school youth, college transitional age, young adults who are not in college. And we even had parent [00:50:00] age folks in our programs as well. In figuring out how do we better support our young folks was that a lot of young people were asking for more like designated space for youth that are in high school. The other request was can you all not be college based because not all young adults go to college in our community, yet we still wanted to access the programs. We had to strategize around these pieces. Also at the time when we were running civic engagement program, we were also building up our trans and queer work in the Central Valley and figuring out like what is HIP's place in this work? So that landed us into three programs. We have a program called Tsev which is TSEV. Um, and that means House in Hmong, but it's an acronym. It stands for Transforming Systems, empowering Our Village, and the reason why we named our youth program that is in the Hmong community, we refer to our community a lot “lub zos” which means village in English. And so that is why we wanted to name our program with something around the word village and then also [00:51:00] home, belongingness, right? We wanted our program to signify belonging. And so that is what landed us in this program. This program is based at a high school and we train cohorts of youth and the curriculum that we cover in all of our programs are pretty similar, but they are adjusted to be more relevant to the age group and the experiences that we are serving. So we have our high school program. We have our trans and queer young adult program called QHIP, queer Hmong intersectional Pride. And then we also have a young adult program called the Civic Engagement Fellowship, but I feel like we're gonna be revamping next year, so we might have a new name next year. And that one is, open to all young adults of all gender and sexuality. The projects that is focused in that is what's coming up on the election. So specific propositions and measures or whatever we are bringing to the ballot. And then with QHIP, it is very focused on intentionally building up leadership in the trans and queer community. [00:52:00] Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): You all tackle power building in so many different intersections, and I think that's so brilliant. You really tailor these spaces to the needs of your community and you're always listening to your community. That is honestly such a theme within the AACRE network. Could you tell us how these groups stay active during the summer?  Katie (HIP): Yeah! During the summer, we close off the cohort in June when the school year ends. And so we're actually in the assessment phase of this program right now. Our seniors throughout the summer go through a one-on-one exit with one of the staff in Fresno or Sacramento. After the senior exit closes out, then we'll be doing a overall annual assessment with all of the young people that were in the program this year. We're actually closing both these pieces out next week. We try to make things fun, right? So for the one-on-ones, we'll all come to the office and we'll have the one-on-one exit interviews and after that we'll go get lunch. somewhere cute, somewhere fun. Then with the end of the year evals, after we complete them for everyone, we'll just hang out. This [00:53:00] year we're planning to do like a paint by numbers night. And then we always somehow end up karaoking. For QHIP, our trans and queer young adult program we actually partner with Lavender Phoenix and have them attend the leadership exchange program that's happening right now. We did our own onboarding and then we celebrated the month of pride. And we also celebrated the trans march. Then after that transition into the leadership exchange program at Lavender Phoenix. After that program, I believe our lead members are going to be designing some projects this summer. And then they'll have the rest of the summer and hours to do their projects, and then we'll eventually close out with a retreat with them. Cheryl (Host): And for our listeners out there, do you mind giving a quick a preview on what lavender, Phoenix's leadership exchange program is and how you all work in tandem with each other?  Katie (HIP): Yeah. Okay. I know in the past, we've sent our more new to organizing leaders [00:54:00] to the leadership exchange program. This year the intention is that we wanted to send leaders from our community who might already have some organizing experience who have some experience in social justice and movement work. And so, during this I think some of my favorite things from the leadership exchange program is teaching folks how to ask for help. I think a lot of our young adults navigate their lives not knowing who to turn to for help and how to formulate and ask that is clear and supportive of their needs. So that's something that we really appreciate through the leadership exchange program. And another piece is mutual aid funding. Lavender Phoenix trains up leaders around fundraising support and that's something I'm really looking forward to our young people gaining. The other piece is ultimately training of trans and queer leaders in our community so that we can continue to sustain this movement and this lifelong work of trans and queer liberation. The leadership exchange program has been able to equip folks with very necessary skills so that they can continue to sustain trans and queer [00:55:00] leadership. I bring in the fundraising piece because, I think a lot of young people that I work with, they're so scared to ask for resource support, especially money. And I think a lot of it comes with our own family trauma around finances, right? So, I'm excited to see what they debrief about and what they reflect on.  Cheryl (Host): That's so amazing. It really sounds like all of these programs that you all do are really building up leaders for the long term of our movements. Asking for help is so related to navigating money, trauma and is so key in shaping liberatory futures. For folks out there who wanna get plugged into some of HIP's programming work, how can we stay in touch with you all? Katie (HIP): Our Instagram is the best spot. And then on our Instagram you can click on the little short link to sign up for our newsletter. We have some volunteer opportunities coming up in the month of August so if folks in the Central Valley wanna support with one of our community engagement [00:56:00] surveys, either to partake in the survey or to support us in doing the outreach and getting the word out so that folks complete the survey. There's two ways that you can participate with us. Yeah.  Cheryl (Host): Thanks, Katie, and of course all of those links will be available in our show notes. Thanks so much for coming on our show tonight, Katie, and thank you to our listeners for tuning in. We'll see you next time. [00:57:00] [00:58:00]  The post APEX Express – July 17, 2025: Summer Programming in the AACRE Network appeared first on KPFA.

The AfterNoonas discuss the viral Kpop Demon Hunters, why it resonated with us, how it inspires us, and what we think about a sequel.Ready to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Why do Asians eat dogs, but others find that awful? What causes a culture to revere some animals and eat others? ► Script Sources and Notes: https://shorturl.at/dvdo3FOLLOW KEN

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. The post APEX Express – July 10, 2025 appeared first on KPFA.

Amy and Megan chat about the 2024 movie Love in the Big City while eating Korean snacks. We discuss why Kim Go Eun remains a top actress and why this movie was a surprising delight for us.Korean Snack BoxReady to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Karen left the country! And came back! We talk Karen's travels to London (with a brief layover in NYC) and the FIVE shows she saw. Why do Asians love Phantom of the Opera? Does Jamie Lloyd only know screens and black underwear? Get in touch! @downstageleftpc downstageleftpc@gmail.com downstageleftpodcast.com

It's that time of the year again...the All-Star Game is near and things are starting to get weird! First, is BTS Suga a part-owner of the As??? The Dodgers lean into Japanese culture with One Piece Night and Hololive Night, and we have 6 Asians on the All-Star roster!In position player news, Field Reporter Naomi Ko is on the scene for Kim Ha Seong's return (though short lived), Anthony Volpe beans Aaron Judge in the eye, Kyle Higashioka's Rangers-leading 5RBI game includes a deposit into the Higgy Bank, and Seiya Suzuki isn't worried his All-Star snub since his "plans are full." Pitchers are feeling things! Exhaustion (Yamamoto and Sugano), finding their stride (Joey Cantillo and Kumar Rocker), and firmly in the groove (Bryan Woo, Yusei Kikuchi, and Shota Imanaga). Also, we welcome the big league debut of Shinnosuke Ogasawara and the season debut of Yu Darvish!Lastly, Ohtani is officially Two Way Player status again...but how long until he makes a full start?

In this bite-sized tutorial, Pramita Mukherjee—named one of Animation Magazine's 2025 Rising Stars—walks us through the animation production pipeline step-by-step. From modeling and rigging to CFX and lighting, she breaks down the essential roles that bring animated characters and worlds to life.This clip is part of a full interview where we explore Pramita's creative journey from Kolkata to Los Angeles, her advice for rising artists, and her advocacy through Women in Animation and Asians in Animation. Watch the full conversation to hear more about her path, influences, and insights: https://youtu.be/iOyLJSdyoSo

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.     The post APEX Express – 7.3.25 – Haibayo appeared first on KPFA.

Today we're tackling Emotional Intelligence (EQ or EI) in K-Dramas. What does that mean? Well, Amy and Megan weren't so sure until Lia led them into her mind castle, and then it all came together. Join us as we share assessments of our own emotional intelligence, as we dive into how K-dramas help us to expand our EQ, and as we explore characters who demonstrate emotional growth along with those who might still need a few lessons on how to achieve a better understanding of their own emotional intelligence.K Pop Rec: "Eye Candy" by From20Kpop Idol Learns About Cultural AppropriationReady to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

This week's topics: • Jim Jones Vs Nas • Gaslighting • Women asking questions Vs Men. • Taking to your wife about things they don't care about. • Mr Wolf being a giver. • Asians love of feeding people • Doing good deeds so others do the same. • Being careful of your good gestures. • Wedding etiquette between male friends. • Trump dropping the F bomb on the news. • Israel Vs Iran • Fighting in Northern Nigeria • AITA for not paying "Black Tax" and not sending money back home. Connect with us at & send your questions & comments to: #ESNpod so we can find your comments www.esnpodcast.com www.facebook.com/ESNpodcasts www.twitter.com/ESNpodcast www.instagram.com/ESNpodcast @esnpodcast on all other social media esnpodcast@gmail.com It's important to subscribe, rate and review us on your apple products. You can do that here... www.bit.ly/esnitunes

Ness Sandoval, Professor of Sociology and Demography at Saint Louis University, joins Megan Lynch with a look at the new data. He says international migration has offset domestic migration in the region. The region is getting older, not younger says Sandoval while other regions are building housing for families.

Commentary by Dr. Jian'an Wang.

Welcome to Season 5, Episode 26! With the fall of Saigon happening about 50 years ago, it's important to recognize related additional moments in the history of Asians and Asian Americans. We're talking about the Secret War in Laos which was closely tied to the Vietnam War. This will be Part 1 of 2 on the topic. Laos is in Southeast Asia, a key region that the U.S. worried about during the Cold War. The Secret War in Laos was led by the CIA and fought predominantly by the Hmong, an ethnic minority in the country, and it's a major reason so many Hmong and Laotian people became refugees after the Fall of Saigon and retreat of U.S. forces. So in this episode, we dig into the geopolitical situation that was present in Southeast Asia, the U.S. role in battling the spread of communism there, the key local soldiers recruited by the CIA, and the amount of damage the U.S. did to the area.  We begin the episode by catching up on current events, including celebrating newly elected mayor of San Antonio Gina Ortiz Jones as well as all the Tony winners of Asian Pacific descent. We also give our thoughts on the push for Asian American History in Arizona. We end the episode with the recurring segment What are We Watching? In this installment, we talk about the streaming show Deli Boys and the feature film Sinners.  If you like what we do, please share, follow, and like us in your podcast directory of choice or on Instagram @AAHistory101. For previous episodes and resources, please visit our site at https://asianamericanhistory101.libsyn.com or our links at http://castpie.com/AAHistory101. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions, email us at info@aahistory101.com. Segments 00:25 Introduction and Current Events 04:59 The History of the Secret War in Laos 14:40 What are We Watching? Deli Boys and Sinners

Could it be? Good news in 2025? We're thrilled about Zohran Mamdani's win in the New York City Democractic mayoral primary, and we talk about the exciting and disheartening parts of this outcome, the data, and the ranked choice of it all. Then we get into a topic we've been thinking but not talking more about in our middle age: Death. We dig into the big questions - how we feel about it these days, if we're afraid of it, what we think happens next - and also alllllll the logistical questions that come with it: Have you done any estate planning? What do you want to happen with your body? Who would you want to speak at your funeral? Finally, we take a hard pivot into an evergreen topic: Most embarrassing Asians. There are embarrassing people everywhere and Asians are no exception, and these are the folks who make us cringe the hardest. This episode has a little bit of everything, and we're glad we get to talk about the most serious and most silly things with each other and with you!facebook.com/topfivepodInstagram: @topfivepodArt by Colin Turnbull (colinpturnbull.com)Music by Origami PigeonThe opinions shared here do not necessarily reflect those of our employers!

Now that the Iran crisis is passing, attention is returning to President Trump's sweeping domestic agenda. Stephen Miran of the Council of Economic Advisers makes the case for why the BBB must pass not only to secure the border and deliver on Trump's campaign promises, but also to unleash American economic growth. Plus, Harmeet Dhillon explains the agenda of the DOJ's Office of Civil Rights, which is in position to unshackle American police and roll back institutional discrimination against whites, Asians, and more. Watch ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com! Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Now that the Iran crisis is passing, attention is returning to President Trump's sweeping domestic agenda. Stephen Miran of the Council of Economic Advisers makes the case for why the BBB must pass not only to secure the border and deliver on Trump's campaign promises, but also to unleash American economic growth. Plus, Harmeet Dhillon explains the agenda of the DOJ's Office of Civil Rights, which is in position to unshackle American police and roll back institutional discrimination against whites, Asians, and more. Watch ad-free on members.charliekirk.com! Get new merch at charliekirkstore.com! Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight Producer Swati Rayasam showcases a community panel of how discriminatory exclusion policies during times of heightened fears of national security and safety have threatened our communities in the past, and how the activities of the current administration threaten our core constitutional rights, raising the specter of politicization and polarization of citizenship, immigration visas, naturalization rights, and the right to free speech.   Deport. Exclude. Revoke. Imprison – “Wong Kim Ark is for All of Us” SHOW TRANSCRIPT Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to APEX Express on KPFA. My name is Swati Rayasam and I'm back as your special producer for this episode. Tonight we have an incredible community panel titled Deport. Exclude. Revoke. Imprison. This panel explores the history of how discriminatory exclusion policies during times of heightened fears of national security and [00:01:00] safety have threatened our communities in the past, and how the activities of the current administration threaten our core constitutional rights, raising the specter of politicization and polarization of citizenship, immigration visas, naturalization rights, and the right to free speech. I'll pass it on to UC Berkeley Ethnic Studies Professor Mike Chang to kick us off. Mike and Harvey: We're starting on Berkeley time, right on time at three 10, and I want to introduce Harvey Dong. Harvey Dong: Okay. The sponsors for today's event include, AADS- Asian American and Diaspora studies program, uc, Berkeley, Asian American Research Center, the Center for Race and Gender Department of Ethnic Studies- all part of uc, Berkeley. Off campus, we have the following community groups. Chinese for Affirmative Action, Asian Law Caucus, [00:02:00] Asian Prisoners Support Committee, and East Wind Books. Okay, so that's, quite a few in terms of coalition people coming together. My name is Harvey Dong and I'm also a lecturer in the AADS program and part of the ethnic studies department. I can say that I exist here as the result of birthright citizenship won by Ancestor Wong Kim Ark in 1898. Otherwise, I would not be here. We want to welcome everyone here today, for this important panel discussion titled: Deport, Exclude, Revoke, Imprison – Immigration and citizenship rights during crisis. Yes, we are in a deep crisis today. The Chinese characters for crisis is way G in Mandarin or way gay in [00:03:00] Cantonese, which means danger and opportunity. We are in a moment of danger and at the same time in a moment of opportunity. Our communities are under attack from undocumented, documented, and those with citizenship. We see urgency in coming together. In 1898, the US Supreme Court case, US versus Wong Kim Ark held that under the 14th Amendment birthright, citizenship applies to all people born in the United States. Regardless of their race or their parents' national origin or immigration status. On May 15th this year, the Supreme Court will hear a President Donald Trump's request to implement an executive order that will end birthright citizenship already before May 15th, [00:04:00] deportations of US citizen children are taking place. Recently, three US citizen children, one 2-year-old with cancer have been deported with their undocumented parents. The numbers of US citizen children are much higher being deported because it's less covered in the press. Unconstitutional. Yes, definitely. And it's taking place now. Also today, more than 2.7 million southeast Asian Americans live in the US but at least 16,000 community members have received final orders of deportation, placing their lives and families in limbo. This presents a mental health challenge and extreme economic hardship for individuals and families who do not know whether their next day in the US will be their last. Wong Kim Ark's [00:05:00] struggle and the lessons of Wong Kim Ark, continue today. His resistance provides us with a grounding for our resistance. So they say deport, exclude, revoke, imprison. We say cease and desist. You can say that every day it just seems like the system's gone amuk. There's constant attacks on people of color, on immigrants and so forth. And our only solution, or the most important solution is to resist, legally resist, but also to protest, to demand cease and desist. Today brings together campus and community people. We want you all to be informed because if you're uninformed , you can't do anything. Okay? You have to know where things are at. It's nothing new. What they're trying to do, in 1882, [00:06:00] during times of economic crisis, they scapegoated Asian Americans. Today there's economic, political crisis. And the scapegoating continues. They're not doing anything new. You know, it's old stuff, but we have to realize that, and we have to look at the past in terms of what was done to fight it and also build new solidarities today. Wong Kim Ark did not take his situation sitting down. He went through, lots of obstacles. He spent three months in Angel Island he was arrested after he won his case because he was constantly being harassed wherever he went. His kids when they came over were also, spotted as being Wong Kim Ark's, children, and they too had to spend months at Angel Island. So Wong Kim Ark did not take his situation sitting down. We need to learn from him today. Our [00:07:00] next, special guest is Mr. Norman Wong, a good friend of mine. He was active here in the third world Liberation Front strike that led to ethnic studies. He did a lots of work for the development of Asian American studies and we've been out in touch for about, what, 40 years? So I'm really happy that he's able to come back to Berkeley and to talk about yourself, if you wish, maybe during the Q and a, but to talk about , the significance of your great-grandfather's case. Okay, so Norman Wong, let's give him a hand. Norman Wong: Hello, my name's Norman Wong. I'm the great grandson, Wong Kim Ark. Wong Kim Ark was [00:08:00] born in the USA, like my great-grandfather. I, too was born American in the same city, San Francisco, more than 75 years after him. We are both Americans, but unlike him, my citizenship has never been challenged. His willingness to stand up and fight made the difference for his struggles, my humble thanks. Wong Kim Ark however, was challenged more than once. In late 1889 as an American, he traveled to China in July, 1890. He returned to his birth city. He had his papers and had no problems with reentry. In 1895, after a similar trip, he was stopped from disembarking and was placed into custody for five months aboard ship in port. [00:09:00] Citizenship denied, the reason the Chinese exclusion Act 1882. He had to win this case in district court, provide $250 bail and then win again in the United States Supreme Court, March 28th, 1898. Only from these efforts, he was able to claim his citizenship granted by birthright from the 14th Amendment and gain his freedom. That would not be the last challenge to his being American. My mother suffered similar treatment. She like my great-grandfather, was born in America. In 1942, she was forced with her family and thousands of other Japanese Americans to relocation camps an experience unspoken by her family. [00:10:00] I first learned about Japanese American internment from history books. Executive order 9066 was the command. No due process, citizenship's rights stripped. She was not American enough. Now we have executive order 14160. It is an attack on birthright citizenship. We cannot let this happen. We must stand together. We are a nation of immigrants. What kind of nation are we to be with stateless children? Born to no country. To this, I say no. We as Americans need to embrace each other and [00:11:00] cherish each new life. Born in the USA. Thank you. Harvey Dong: Thank you, Norman. And Annie Lee, will moderate, the following panel, involving campus and community representatives who will be sharing their knowledge and experience. Annie Lee, Esquire is an attorney. She's also the, managing director of policy for Chinese Affirmative Action, and she's also, heavily involved in the birthright citizenship issue. Annie Lee: Thank you so much Harvey for that very warm welcome and thank you again to Norman for your remarks. I think it's incredible that you're speaking up at this moment, to preserve your ancestors' legacy because it impacts not just you and him, but all of us [00:12:00] here. So thank you. As Harvey said, my name is Annie Lee and I have this honor of working with this amazing panel of esteemed guest we have today. So I will ask each of them to introduce themselves. And I will start, because I would love to hear your name, pronouns. Title and organization as well as your personal or professional relationship with the US Immigration System. So my name's Annie. I use she her pronouns. I'm the managing Director of policy at Chinese for Affirmative Action, which is a non-profit based in San Francisco Chinatown. We provide direct services to the monolingual working class Chinese community, and also advocate for policies to benefit all Asian Americans. My relationship with the immigration system is I am the child of two Chinese immigrants who did not speak English. And so I just remember lots of time spent on the phone when I was a kid with INS, and then it became U-S-C-I-S just trying to ask them what happened to [00:13:00] a family member's application for naturalization, for visas so I was the interpreter for them growing up and even today. I will pass it to Letty. Leti Volpp: Hi everybody. Thank you so much, Annie. Thank you Harvey. Thank you, Norman. That was profoundly moving to hear your remarks and I love the way that you framed our conversation, Harvey. I'm Leti Volpp. I am the Robert d and Leslie k Raven, professor of Law and Access to Justice at the Berkeley Law, school. I'm also the director of the campus wide , center for Race and Gender, which is a legacy of the Third World Liberation Front, and the 1999, student movement, that led to the creation of the center. I work on immigration law and citizenship theory, and I am the daughter, second of four, children of my mother who was an immigrant from China, and my father who was an immigrant [00:14:00] from Germany. So I'll pass it. Thank you. Ke Lam: Thank you. Thank you all for being here. Thank you, Norman. So my name's Key. I go by he, him pronouns or Nghiep “Ke” Lam, is my full name. I work for an organization called Asian Prison Support Committee. It's been around for like over two decades now, and it started behind three guys advocating for ethics study, Asian and Pacific Islander history. And then it was starting in San Quent State Prison. All three of them pushed for ethics study, hard and the result is they all was put into solitary confinement. And many years later, after all three got out, was Eddie Zang, Mike Romero and Mike no. And when they got out, Eddie came back and we pushed for ethics study again, and we actually got it started in 2013. And it's been going on to today. Then the programs is called Roots, restoring our Original True Self. So reconnecting with who we are. And one of Eddie's main, mottos that really stuck with me. He said, we need to all connect to our chi, right? And I'm like, okay, I understand what chi is, and he said no. He [00:15:00] said, you need to connect to your culture, your history, which result to equal your identity, who you are as a person. So, the more we study about our history and our culture, like, birthright citizen, it empower us to know, who we are today. Right? And also part of that is to how do we take down the veil of shame in our community, the veil of trauma that's impacting our community as well. We don't talk about issue that impact us like immigration. So I'm a 1.5 generation. So I was born in Vietnam from Chinese family that migrant from China to Vietnam started business after the fall of Vietnam War. We all got kicked out but more than that, I am directly impacted because I am a stranded deportee, somebody that got their, legal status taken away because of criminal conviction. And as of any moment now, I could actually be taken away. So I live in that, right at that threshold of like uncertainty right now. And the people I work with, which are hundreds of people, are fixing that same uncertainty.[00:16:00] Annie Lee: Thank you, Ke. I'm gonna pass it to our panelists who are joining us virtually, including Bun. Can you start and then we'll pass it to Chris after. Bun: Hey everybody, thank you for having me. My name is Bun. I'm the co-director of Asian Prison Support Committee. I'm also, 1.5 generation former incarcerated and under, direct impact of immigration. Christopher Lapinig: Hi everyone. My name is Christopher Lapinig, my pronouns are he, him and Sha. I am a senior staff attorney on the Democracy and National Initiatives Team at Asian Law Caucus, which you may know is the country's first and oldest legal aid in civil rights organization, dedicated to serving, low income immigrant and underserved AAPI communities. In terms of my connection to the immigration system, I am, I also am a beneficiary of a birthright citizenship, and my parents are both immigrants from the Philippines. I was born in New York City. My [00:17:00] extended family spans both in the US and the Philippines. After graduating law school and clerking, my fellowship project was focused on providing litigation and immigration services to, survivors of labor trafficking in the Filipino community. While working at Asian Americans Advancing Justice Los Angeles, I also was engaged in, class action litigation, challenging the first Trump administration's practices, detaining immigrants in the Vietnamese and Cambodian communities. Annie Lee: Thank you, Chris. Thank you Bun. Let's start off by talking about birthright citizenship since it's a big topic these days. On the very, very first day of Trump's administration, he issued a flurry of executive orders, including one that would alter birthright citizenship. But I wanna take us back to the beginning because why do we have this right? It is a very broad right? If you were born in the United States, you are an American citizen. Where does that come from? So I wanna pose the first question to Letty to talk about the [00:18:00] origins of birthright citizenship., Leti Volpp: Very happy to. So what's being fought about is a particular clause in the Constitution and the 14th Amendment, which says, all persons born are naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. Okay, so that's the text. There's been a very long understanding of what this text means, which says that regardless of the immigration status of one's parents, all children born here are entitled to birthright citizenship with three narrow exceptions, which I will explain. So the Trump administration executive order, wants to exclude from birthright citizenship, the children of undocumented immigrants, and the children of people who are here on lawful temporary visas. So for example, somebody here on an [00:19:00] F1 student visa, somebody on a H one B worker visa, somebody here is a tourist, right? And basically they're saying we've been getting this clause wrong for over a hundred years. And I will explain to you why I think they're making this very dubious argument. Essentially when you think about where the 14th amendment came from, in the United States, in the Antebellum era, about 20% of people were enslaved and there were lots of debates about citizenship. Who should be a citizen? Who could be a citizen? And in 1857, the Supreme Court issued a decision in a case called Dread Scott, where they said that no person who was black, whether free or enslaved, could ever be a citizen. The Civil War gets fought, they end slavery. And then the question arose, well, what does this mean for citizenship? Who's a citizen of the United States? And in 1866, Congress [00:20:00] enacts a law called the Civil Rights Act, which basically gave rights to people that were previously denied and said that everybody born in the United States is a birthright citizen. This gets repeated in the 14th Amendment with the very important interpretation of this clause in Norman's great-grandfather's case, the case of Wong Kim Ark. So this came before the Supreme Court in 1898. If you think about the timing of this, the federal government had basically abandoned the reconstruction project, which was the project of trying to newly enfranchised, African Americans in the United States. The Supreme Court had just issued the decision, Plessy versus Ferguson, which basically legitimated the idea that, we can have separate, but equal, as a doctrine of rights. So it was a nation that was newly hostile to the goals of the Reconstruction Congress, and so they had this case come before them, whereas we heard [00:21:00] from Norman, we have his great-grandfather born in San Francisco, Chinatown, traveling back and forth to China. His parents having actually left the United States. And this was basically presented as a test case to the Supreme Court. Where the government tried to argue, similar to what the Trump administration is arguing today, that birthright citizenship, that clause does not guarantee universal birthright citizenship saying that children of immigrants are not subject to the jurisdiction thereof, not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States because their parents are also not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. The Supreme Court took over a year to decide the case. They knew that it would be controversial, and the majority of the court said, this provision is clear. It uses universal language. It's intended to apply to children of all immigrants. One of the things that's interesting about [00:22:00] what the, well I'll let Chris actually talk about what the Trump administration, is trying to do, but let me just say that in the Wong Kim Ark decision, the Supreme Court makes very clear there only three narrow exceptions to who is covered by the 14th Amendment. They're children of diplomats. So for example, if the Ambassador of Germany is in the United States, and, she has a daughter, like her daughter should not become a birthright citizen, right? This is why there's diplomatic immunity. Why, for example, in New York City, there are millions of dollars apparently owed to the city, in parking tickets by ambassadors who don't bother to pay them because they're not actually subject to the jurisdiction in the United States. Okay? Second category, children of Native Americans who are seen as having a sovereign relationship of their own, where it's like a nation within a nation, kind of dynamic, a country within a country. And there were detailed conversations in the congressional debate about the [00:23:00] 14th Amendment, about both of these categories of people. The third category, were children born to a hostile invading army. Okay? So one argument you may have heard people talk about is oh, I think of undocumented immigrants as an invading army. Okay? If you look at the Wong Kim Ark decision, it is very clear that what was intended, by this category of people were a context where the hostile invading army is actually in control of that jurisdiction, right? So that the United States government is not actually governing that space so that the people living in it don't have to be obedient, to the United States. They're obedient to this foreign power. Okay? So the thread between all three of these exceptions is about are you having to be obedient to the laws of the United States? So for example, if you're an undocumented immigrant, you are subject to being criminally prosecuted if you commit a crime, right? Or [00:24:00] you are potentially subjected to deportation, right? You have to obey the law of the United States, right? You are still subject to the jurisdiction thereof. Okay? But the Trump administration, as we're about to hear, is making different arguments. Annie Lee: Thank you so much, Leti for that historical context, which I think is so important because, so many different communities of color have contributed to the rights that we have today. And so what Leti is saying here is that birthright citizenship is a direct result of black liberation and fighting for freedom in the Civil War and making sure that they were then recognized as full citizens. And then reinforced, expanded, by Wong Kim Ark. And now we are all beneficiaries and the vast majority of Americans get our citizenship through birth. Okay? That is true for white people, black people. If you're born here, you get your ci. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to go to court. You don't have to say anything. You are a US citizen. And now as Leti referenced, there's this fringe legal theory that, thankfully we've got lawyers like [00:25:00] Chris who are fighting this. So Chris, you're on the ALC team, one of many lawsuits against the Trump administration regarding this unlawful executive order. Can you tell us a little bit about the litigation and the arguments, but I actually really want you to focus on what are the harms of this executive order? Sometimes I think particularly if you are a citizen, and I am one, sometimes we take what we have for granted and you don't even realize what citizenship means or confers. So Chris, can you talk about the harms if this executive order were to go through? Christopher Lapinig: Yeah. As Professor Volpp sort of explained this executive order really is an assault on a fundamental constitutional right that has existed for more than a hundred years at this point, or, well, about 125 years. And if it is allowed to be implemented, the harms would really be devastating and far reach. So first, you know, children born in the us, the [00:26:00] parents without permanent status, as permissible said, would be rendered effectively stateless, in many cases. And these are of course, children, babies who have never known any other home, yet they would be denied the basic rights of citizen. And so the order targets a vast range of families, and not just undocument immigrants, but also those with work visas, student visas, humanitarian productions like TPS, asylum seekers, fleeing persecution, DACA recipients as well. And a lot of these communities have deep ties to Asian American community. To our history, and of course are, essential part, of our social fabric. In practical terms, children born without birthright citizenship would be denied access to healthcare through Medicaid, through denied access to snap nutritional assistance, even basic IDs like social security numbers, passports. And then as they grow older, they'd be barred from voting, serving on juries and even [00:27:00] working. And then later on in life, they might be, if they, are convicted of a crime and make them deportable, they could face deportation to countries that they never stepped, foot off basically. And so this basically is this executive order threatened at risk, creating exactly what the drafters of the 14th Amendment wanted to prevent the creation of a permanent underclass of people in the United States. It'll just get amplified over time. If you can imagine if there's one generation of people born without citizenship, there will be a second generation born and a third and fourth, and it'll just get amplified over time. And so it truly is just, hard to get your mind around exactly what the impact of this EO would be. Annie Lee: Thanks, Chris. And where are we in the litigation right now? Harvey referenced, a hearing at the Supreme Court on May 15th, but, tell us a little bit about the injunction and the arguments on the merits and when that can, when we can expect [00:28:00] that. Christopher Lapinig: Yeah, so there were a number of lawsuits filed immediately after, the administration issued its exec order on January 20th. Asian Law Caucus we filed with the ACLU Immigrant Rights Project. Literally we were the first lawsuit, literally hours after the executive order was issued. By early February, federal judges across the country had issued nationwide preliminary injunctions blocking implementation of the order. Our case is actually not a nationwide injunction. And so there're basically, I believe three cases that are going up to the Supreme Court. And, the Trump administration appealed to various circuit courts to try to undo these injunctions. But all circuit courts upheld the injunctive relief and and so now the Supreme Court is going to be hearing arguments on May 15th. And so it has not actually ruled on whether or not the executive order is constitutional, but it's going to. I mean, it remains to be seen exactly what they're going to decide but may [00:29:00] 15th is the next date is the big date on our calendar. Annie Lee: Yeah. So the Trump administration is arguing that these judges in a particular district, it's not fair if they get to say that the entire country, is barred from receiving this executive order. Is that procedurally correct. Judges, in order to consider whether to grants an injunction, they have a whole battery of factors that they look at, including one, which is like likelihood of winning on the merits. Because if something is unconstitutional, it's not really great to say, yeah, you can let this executive order go through. And then like later when the court cases finally worked their way, like a year later, pull back from that. And so that's, it's very frustrating to see this argument. And it's also unfair and would be very messy if the states that had republican Attorneys General who did not litigate, why would you allow the executive order to go forward in those red states and not in these blue state? It really, I would say federalism run terribly amuck. Swati Rayasam: [00:30:00] You are tuned in to APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley,. 88.1. KFCF in Fresno and online@kpfa.org. Annie Lee: But anyway, let's see back off from the actual case because I think what we're really talking about and what Chris has alluded to is, these cases about birthright citizenship, all the immigration policy is essentially determining who belongs here. Who belongs here. That's what immigration policy is at its heart. And we see that the right wing is weaponizing that question, who belongs here? And they are going after very vulnerable populations, undocumented people, people who are formerly incarcerated. So Bun if you can talk about how, is the formerly incarcerated community, like targeted immigrants, targeted for deportation? What is going on with this community that I feel like most people might not know about? Thank [00:31:00] you. Bun: Yes. For our folks that are incarcerated and former incarcerated, we are the easiest target for deportation because we are in custody and in California, CDCR colludes with ICE and on the day that we are to be paroled they're at the door, cuffing us up and taking us to detention. I'm glad to hear Harvey say, this is a time of fear for us and also opportunity. Right now, our whole community, the Southeast Asian community, mainly are very effective with immigration. In the past 25 years, mostly it was the Cambodian community that was being targeted and deported. At this moment, they are targeting, all of the Southeast Asian community, which historically was never deported because of the politics and agreements, of the Vietnamese community. And now the Laos community thats more concerning, that are being targeted for deportation. Trump have opened a new opportunity for us as a community to join [00:32:00] together and understand each other's story, and understand each other's fear. Understand where we're going about immigration. From birthright to crimmagration. A lot of times folks that are under crimmigration are often not spoken about because of our cultural shame, within our own family and also some of our community member felt safe because the political agreements. Now that everybody's in danger, we could stand together and understand each other's issue and support each other because now we could see that history has repeated itself. Again, we are the scapegoat. We are here together fighting the same issue in different circumstances, but the same issue. Annie Lee: But let me follow up. What are these, historical agreements that you're talking about that used to feel like used to at least shield the community that now aren't in place anymore? Bun: Yeah. After the Clinton administration, uh, passed the IRA [immigration reform act] a lot of Southeast Asian nations were asked to [00:33:00] take their nationals back. Even though we as 1.5 generation, which are the one that's mostly impacted by this, had never even stepped into the country. Most of us were born in a refugee camp or we're too young to even remember where they came from. Countries like Cambodian folded right away because they needed the financial aid and whatever, was offering them and immediately a three with a MOU that they will take their citizens since the early two thousands. Vietnam had a stronger agreement, which, they would agree to only take folks that immigrated here after 1995 and anybody before 1995, they would not take, and Laos have just said no until just a few months ago. Laos has said no from when the, uh, the act was passed in 1995, the IRRIRA. Mm-hmm. So the big change we have now is Vietnam had signed a new MOU saying that they will take folks after 1995 [00:34:00] in the first administration and more recently, something that we never thought, happened so fast, was Laos agreeing to take their citizen back. And then the bigger issue about our Laos community is, it's not just Laos folks. It's the Hmong folks, the Myan folks, folks, folks that are still in danger of being returned back 'cause in the Vietnam War, they colluded and supported the Americans in the Vietnam War and were exiled out and kicked out, and were hunted down because of that. So, at this moment, our folks are very in fear, especially our loud folks, not knowing what's gonna happen to 'em. Ke Lam: So for folks that don't know what IRR means it means, illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act. It actually happened after the Oklahoma bombing, which was caused by a US citizen, a white US citizen. Yeah. But immigration law came out of it. That's what's crazy about it. Annie Lee: Can you tell us, how is APSC advocating to protect the community right now because you [00:35:00] are vulnerable? Ke Lam: So we had to censor a lot of our strategies. At first we used to use social media as a platform to show our work and then to support our community. But the government use that as a target to capture our people. So we stopped using social media. So we've been doing a lot of on the ground movement, such as trying to get local officials to do resolutions to push Governor Newsom to party more of our community members. The other thing is we hold pardon workshops, so try and get folks to get, either get a pardon or vacate their sentence. So commute their sentence to where it become misdemeanor is not deportable anymore. Support letters for our folks writing support letters to send to the governor and also to city official, to say, Hey, please help pardon our community. I think the other thing we are actually doing is solidarity work with other organizations, African American community as well as Latin communities because we've been siloed for so long and we've been banned against each other, where people kept saying like, they've taken all our job when I grew up. That's what they told us, right? [00:36:00] But we, reality that's not even true. It was just a wedge against our community. And then so it became the good versus bad narrative. So our advocacy is trying to change it it's called re-storying you know, so retelling our story from people that are impacted, not from people, not from the one percenters in our own community. Let's say like we're all good, do you, are there's parts of our community that like that's the bad people, right? But in reality, it affects us all. And so advocacy work is a lot of different, it comes in a lot of different shapes and forms, but definitely it comes from the community. Annie Lee: Thanks, Ke. You teed me up perfectly because there is such a good versus bad immigrant narrative that takes root and is really hard to fight against. And that's why this administration is targeting incarcerated and formerly incarcerated folks and another group that, are being targeted as people who are accused of crimes, including Venezuelan immigrants who are allegedly part of a gang. So, Leti how is the government deporting [00:37:00] people by simply accusing them of being a part of a gang? Like how is that even possible? Leti Volpp: Yeah, so one thing to think about is there is this thing called due process, right? It's guaranteed under the constitution to all persons. It's not just guaranteed to citizens. What does it mean? Procedural due process means there should be notice, there should be a hearing, there should be an impartial judge. You should have the opportunity to present evidence. You should have the opportunity to cross examinee. You should have the opportunity to provide witnesses. Right? And basically Trump and his advisors are in real time actively trying to completely eviscerate due process for everybody, right? So Trump recently said, I'm doing what I was elected to do, remove criminals from our country. But the courts don't seem to want me to do that. We cannot give everyone a trial because to do so would take without exaggeration, 200 years. And then Stephen Miller said the judicial process is for Americans. [00:38:00] Immediate deportation is for illegal aliens. Okay. Quote unquote. Right. So I think one thing to notice is, as we're hearing from all of our speakers are like the boxes, the categories into which people are put. And what's really disturbing is to witness how once somebody's put in the box of being quote unquote criminal gang banger terrorists, like the American public seems to be like, oh, okay you can do what you want to this person. There's a whole history of due process, which exists in the laws which was created. And all of these early cases actually involved Asian immigrants, right? And so first they were saying there's no due process. And then in a case called Yata versus Fisher, they said actually there is due process in deportation cases, there's regular immigration court proceedings, which accord with all of these measures of due process. There's also a procedure called expedited removal, [00:39:00] which Congress invented in the nineties where they wanted to come up with some kind of very quick way to summarily exclude people. It was motivated by a 60 Minutes episode where they showed people coming to Kennedy Airport, who didn't have any ID or visa or they had what seemed to be fake visas and they were let into the United States. And then they disappeared, right? According to the 60 Minutes episode. So basically Congress invented this procedure of, if you appear in the United States and you have no documents, or you have what an immigration inspector thinks are false documents, they can basically tell you, you can leave without this court hearing. And the only fail safe is what's called a credible fear screening. Where if you say, I want asylum, I fear persecution, I'm worried I might be tortured, then they're supposed to have the screening. And if you pass that screening, you get put in regular removal [00:40:00] proceedings. So before the Trump administration took office, these expedited removal proceedings were happening within a hundred miles of the border against people who could not show that they had been in the United States for more than two weeks. In one of his first executive orders. Trump extended this anywhere in the United States against people who cannot show they've been in the United States for more than two years. So people are recommending that people who potentially are in this situation to carry documentation, showing they've been physically in the United States for over two years. Trump is also using this Alien Enemies Act, which was basically a law Congress passed in 1798. It's only been used three times in US history it's a wartime law, right? So it was used in 1812, World War I, and World War II, and there's supposed to be a declared war between the United States and a foreign nation or government, or [00:41:00] there's an incursion threatened by a foreign nation or government, and the president makes public proclamation that all natives of this hostile nation, 14 and up shall be liable to be restrained and removed as alien enemies. Okay? So we're obviously not at war with the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua, right? They have not engaged in some kind of invasion or predatory incursion into the United States, but the Trump administration is claiming that they have and saying things like, oh, they're secretly a paramilitary wing of the Venezuelan government, even as the Venezuelan government is like cracking down on them. It's not a quasi sovereign, entity. There's no diplomatic relationships between Tren de Aragua and any other government. So these are legally and factually baseless arguments. Nonetheless, the administration has been basically taking people from Venezuela on the basis of tattoos. A tattoo of a crown of a [00:42:00] rose, right? Even when experts have said there's no relationship between what Tren de Aragua does and tattoos, right? And basically just kidnapping people and shipping them to the torture prison in El Salvador. As I'm sure you know of the case of Kimber Abrego Garcia, I'm sure we'll hear more about this from Christopher. There's a very small fraction of the persons that have been sent to this prison in El Salvador who actually have any criminal history. And I will say, even if they had a criminal history, nobody should be treated in this manner and sent to this prison, right? I mean, it's unbelievable that they've been sent to this prison allegedly indefinitely. They're paying $6 million a year to hold people there. And then the United States government is saying, oh, we don't have any power to facilitate or effectuate their return. And I think there's a struggle as to what to call this. It's not just deportation. This is like kidnapping. It's rendition. And there are people, there's like a particular person like who's completely [00:43:00] disappeared. Nobody knows if they're alive or dead. There are many people in that prison. People don't know if they're alive or dead. And I'm sure you've heard the stories of people who are gay asylum seekers, right? Who are now in this situation. There are also people that have been sent to Guantanamo, people were sent to Panama, right? And so I think there questions for us to think about like, what is this administration doing? How are they trying to do this in a spectacular fashion to instill fear? As we know as well, Trump had said oh, like I think it would be great when he met with Bukele if you build four more or five more facilities. I wanna house homegrown people in El Salvador, right? So this is all the more importance that we stick together, fight together, don't, as key was saying, don't let ourselves be split apart. Like we need a big mass coalition right? Of people working together on this. Annie Lee: So thank you leti and I think you're absolutely right. These Venezuelans were kidnapped [00:44:00] in the middle of the night. I mean, 2:00 AM 3:00 AM pulled out of bed, forced to sign documents they did not understand because these documents were only available in English and they speak Spanish, put on planes sent to El Salvador, a country they've never been to. The government didn't even have to prove anything. They did not have to prove anything, and they just snatch these people and now they're disappeared. We do have, for now the rule of law. And so Chris, there are judges saying that, Kimber Abrego Garcia has to be returned. And despite these court orders, the administration is not complying. So where does that leave us, Chris, in terms of rule of law and law in general? Christopher Lapinig: Yeah. So, I'm gonna make a little personal. So I graduated from Yale Law School in 2013, and you might know some of my classmates. One of my classmates is actually now the Vice President of the United States. Oh man. [00:45:00] Bless you. As well as the second lady, Usha Vance. And a classmate of mine, a good friend Sophia Nelson, who's a trans and queer, was recently on, I believe CNN answering a question about, I believe JD Vice President Vance, was asked about the administration's sort of refusal to comply with usual orders. Yeah. As we're talking about here and JD had said something like, well, courts, judges can't tell the president what he can't do, and sophia, to their credit, said, you know, I took constitutional law with JD, and, we definitely read Marbury Versus Madison together, and that is the semial sort of Supreme Court case that established that the US Supreme Court is the ultimate decider, arbiter, interpreter, of the US Constitution. And so is basically saying, I know JD knows better. He's lying essentially, in all of his [00:46:00] communications about, judicial orders and whether or not a presidential administration has to comply , with these orders. So, to get to your question though, it is of course unprecedented. Really. It is essentially, you know, it's not, if we not already reached. The point of a constitutional crisis. It is a constitutional crisis. I think it's become clear to many of us that, democracy in the US has operated in large part, and has relied on, on, on the good faith in norms, that people are operating good faith and that presidents will comply when, a federal judge issues an injunction or a decision. It kind of leaves us in an interesting, unprecedented situation. And it means that, lawyers, we will continue to litigate and, go to court, but we can't, lawyers will not save the country or, immigrants or communities. We need to think extensively and creatively. [00:47:00] About how to ensure, that the rule of law is preserved because, this administration is not, abiding by the longstanding norms of compliance and so we have to think about, protests, advocacy, legislatively. I don't have the answers necessarily, but we can't rely on the courts to fix these problems really. Annie Lee: Oof. That was very real, Chris. Thank you. But I will say that when there is resistance, and we've seen it from students who are speaking up and advocating for what they believe is right and just including Palestinian Liberation, that there is swift retaliation. And I think that's partly because they are scared of student speech and movement and organizing. But this is a question to all of you. So if not the courts and if the administration is being incredibly retaliatory, and discriminatory in terms of viewpoint discrimination, in people and what people are saying and they're scouring our social [00:48:00] media like, Ke warns, like what can everyday people do to fight back? That's for all of you. So I don't know who, which of you wants to take it first? Ke Lam: Oh man. I say look at history, right? Even while this new president, I wanna say like, this dude is a convicted felon, right? Don't be surprised at why we country is in the way it is, because this dude's a convicted felon, a bad business person, right? And only care about the billionaires, you know? So I'm not surprised how this country's ending up the way it is 'cause it is all about money. One way that we can stand up is definitely band together, marched on the streets. It's been effective. You look at the civil right movement, that's the greatest example. Now you don't have to look too far. We can actually, when we come together, they can't fight us all. Right? It is, and this, it's like you look at even nature in the cell. When things band together, the predators cannot attack everyone. Right? They probably could hit a few of us, but in the [00:49:00] long run, we could change the law. I think another thing is we, we, as the people can march to the courts and push the courts to do the job right, despite what's going on., We had judges that been arrested for doing the right thing, right? And so, no matter what, we have to stand strong just despite the pressure and just push back. Annie Lee: Thanks, Ke. Chris? Christopher Lapinig: What this administration is doing is you know, straight out of the fascist playbook. They're working to, as we all know, shock and awe everyone, and make Americans feel powerless. Make them feel like they have no control, make them feel overwhelmed. And so I think first and foremost, take care of yourself , in terms of your health, in terms of your physical health, your mental health. Do what you can to keep yourself safe and healthy and happy. And do the same for your community, for your loved ones, your friends and family. And then once you've done that do what you can in terms of your time, treasure, [00:50:00] talent to, to fight back. Everyone has different talents, different levels of time that they can afford. But recognize that this is a marathon and not necessarily a sprint because we need everyone, in this resistance that we can get. Annie Lee: Thank you, Chris. Leti Volpp: There was a New Yorker article called, I think it was How to Be a Dissident which said, before recently many Americans, when you ask them about dissidents, they would think of far off countries. But they interviewed a lot of people who'd been dissidents in authoritarian regimes. And there were two, two things in that article that I'm taking with me among others. One of them said that in surveying like how authoritarian regimes are broken apart, like only 3.5% of the population has to oppose what's going on. The other thing was that you should find yourself a political home where you can return to frequently. It's almost like a religious or [00:51:00] spiritual practice where you go and you get refreshed and you're with like-minded people. And so I see this event, for example as doing that, and that we all need to find and nurture and foster spaces like this. Thank you. Annie Lee: Bun, do you have any parting words? Bun: Yeah. Like Ke said, to fight back, getting together, understanding issues and really uplifting, supporting, urging our own communities, to speak Up. You know, there's folks that can't speak out right now because of fear and danger, but there are folks here that can speak out and coming here learning all our situation really give the knowledge and the power to speak out for folks that can't speak down [unclear] right now. So I appreciate y'all Annie Lee: love that bun. I was gonna say the same thing. I feel like there is a special obligation for those of us who are citizens, citizens cannot be deported. Okay? Citizens have special rights based [00:52:00] on that status. And so there's a special responsibility on those of us who can speak, and not be afraid of retaliation from this government. I would also urge you all even though it's bleak at the federal level, we have state governments, we have local governments. You have a university here who is very powerful. And you have seen, we've seen that the uni that the administration backs down, sometimes when Harvard hit back, they back down and that means that there is a way to push the administration, but it does require you all putting pressure on your schools, on your local leaders, on your state leaders to fight back. My boss actually, Vin taught me this. You know, you think that politicians, lead, politicians do not lead politicians follow. Politicians follow and you all lead when you go out further, you give them cover to do the right thing. And so the farther you push and the more you speak out against this administration, the more you give them courage to do the right thing. And so you absolutely have to do that. A pardon [00:53:00] is critical. It is critical for people who are formerly incarcerated to avoid the immigration system and deportation. And so do that. Talk to your family, talk to your friends. My parents, despite being immigrants, they're kinda old school. Okay guys, they're like, you know, birthright citizenship does seem kind of like a loophole. Why should people like get like citizenship? I'm like, mom, we, I am a birthright citizen. Like, um, And I think for Asian Americans in particular, there is such a rich history of Asian American civil rights activism that we don't talk about enough, and maybe you do at Berkeley with ethnic studies and professors like Mike Chang. But, this is totally an interracial solidarity movement. We helped bring about Wong Kim Ark and there are beneficiaries of every shade of person. There's Yik wo, and I think about this all the time, which is another part of the 14th Amendment equal protection. Which black Americans fought for that in San Francisco. [00:54:00] Chinatown made real what? What does equal protection of the laws even mean? And that case was Seminole. You've got Lao versus Nichols. Another case coming out of San Francisco. Chinatown about English learner rights, the greatest beneficiary of Lao v Nichols, our Spanish speakers, they're Spanish speaking children in schools who get access to their education regardless of the language they speak. And so there are so many moments in Asian American history that we should be talking about, that we should educate our parents and our families about, because this is our moment. Now, this is another one of those times I wanna pass it to Mike and Harvey for questions, and I'm so excited to hear about them. Mike and Harvey: Wow, thank you so much. That's a amazing, panel and thank you for facilitating annie's wanna give it of a great value in terms of that spiritual home aspect. Norm how does your great grandfather's , experience in resistance, provide help for us [00:55:00] today? Norman Wong: Well, I think he was willing to do it. It only took one, if no one did it, this, we wouldn't be having the discussion because most of us would've never been here. And we need to come together on our common interests and put aside our differences because we all have differences. And if we tried, to have it our way for everything, we'll have it no way for us. We really need to, to bond and bind together and become strong as a people. And I don't mean as a racial or a national group. Mm-hmm. I mean, we're Americans now. We're Americans here think of us as joining with all Americans to make this country the way it's supposed to be. The way [00:56:00] we grew up, the one that we remember, this is not the America I grew up believing in. I'm glad he stood up. I'm proud that he did that. He did that. Him doing that gave me something that I've never had before. A validation of my own life. And so yes, I'm proud of him. Wong Kim Ark is for all of us. It's not for me to own. Yeah. Wow. Really not. Thank you so much. Wong Kim Ark is for all of us. And, and , talking about the good , that we have here and, the optimism that Harvey spoke about, the opportunity, even in a moment of substantial danger. Thank you so much everybody. Mike and Harvey: This was amazing and really appreciate sharing this space with you and, building community and solidarity. Ke Lam: But is there any, can I leave with a chant before we close off? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. So this is a chant that we use on the ground all the time. You guys probably heard it. When I said when we fight, you guys said we [00:57:00] win when we fight. We win when we fight, we win. When we fight, we win up. Swati Rayasam: Thanks so much for tuning into APEX Express. Please check out our website at kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about the show tonight and to find out how you can take direct action. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world. Your voices are important. APEX Express is produced by Miko Lee, along with Jalena Keene-Lee, Ayame Keene-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaida, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Ravi Grover, and me Swati Rayasam. Thank you so much to the team at KPFA for their support, and have a good [00:58:00] night.   The post APEX Express – 6.26.25-Deport. Exclude. Revoke. Imprison – Wong Kim Ark is for All of Us appeared first on KPFA.

Megan and Lia make the case for Let Free the Curse of Taekwondo, a Korean BL drama that launched its way to the top of our favorites lists with its earnest storytelling, heartfelt acting, and incredibly satisfying ending. Ready to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

It's another week of Asians in Baseball, and everybody's taking notes! First, our reaction to the Dodgers' response (or lack thereof) to the protests, the updated IL report, and a trade rumor and a DFA.In position player news, Anthony Volpe needs the bump, Bo Bichette and Christian Yelich definitely do not, Steven Kwan shows off his Gold Glove defense, Seiya Suzuki counters two errors with two homers, and Kim Hyeseong earns more playing time. Over in pitching, Tomoyuki Sugano and Yoshinobu Yamamoto are tired, the Angels continue to leave Yusei Kikuchi high and dry with the L, and Orion Kerkering has not given up an earned run since May 6th!And Ohtani leads by example after getting HBP in the Padres/Dodgers Tour de Plunks and returns to the mound...maybe a little too early.

On this episode, we welcome award winning author and illustrator Mike Curato to the podcast to chat about his latest graphic novel, Gaysians, an adult graphic novel following four gay Asians navigating love, identity, found family, and friendship in early 2000's Seattle.Follow Mike on Instagram at @mike_curato and check out his latest graphic novel Gaysians available now on the Books & Boba bookshop!Books & Boba is a podcast dedicated to reading and featuring books by Asian and Asian American authorsSupport the Books & Boba Podcast by:Joining our Patreon to receive exclusive perksPurchasing books at our bookshopRocking our Books & Boba merchFollow our hosts:Reera Yoo (@reeraboo)Marvin Yueh (@marvinyueh)Follow us:InstagramTwitterGoodreadsFacebookThe Books & Boba June 2025 pick is Afterparties by Anthony Veasna SoThis podcast is part of Potluck: An Asian American Podcast Collective

In the first episode of Season 9, our hosts Naina, Eden, and Meghna get personal as they reflect on their career paths so far and what it means to grow up navigating work, culture, and identity.

Your noonas have rewritten an ending or two, but that's not what today is about. For this episode, we get to the heart of the matter and talk about what actually makes a good (or not so good) ending. We discuss what happens when a good drama has a bad ending, whether or not a good ending can save a bad drama, and of course, the best and worst (in our opinion) endings in our K-drama experience. Ready to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

This week's topics: • Slick Rick's new album • Intangible things that enhance music • What makes someone a nerd • How many sports do you have to now before you can be a sports expert • Club World Cup • Are nerds cool now and if so, why? • Music and Sports stars sharing partners • Kendrick's concerts in Toronto • Top 20 Hip Hop diss songs • Issues with playing music on our podcasts • Language and culture • Fake social media videos • AI and non tech savvy people • IShowSpeed v Ashton Hill • Great multi-skilled artists • Mixing cultures • Is Spain or Poland more racist • Which country or race gets more hate from British WASP • Do non Asians know the difference between an Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi • Being a good neighbour • Am I The Asshole for drinking more alcohol around obnoxious non alcohol drinkers? • #StavrosSays : Pocketcast Podcast App [https://pocketcasts.com/] Catch our guest at: www.instagram.com/cleopatrafigure8 Connect with us at & send your questions & comments to: #ESNpod so we can find your comments www.esnpodcast.com www.facebook.com/ESNpodcasts www.twitter.com/ESNpodcast www.instagram.com/ESNpodcast @esnpodcast on all other social media esnpodcast@gmail.com It's important to subscribe, rate and review us on your apple products. You can do that here... www.bit.ly/esnitunes

The globalist resistance, pro-America, media has been completely exposed as nothing more than a new form of mockingbird press. The big patriot leaders are in unison calling for the end of “third world immigration” and even “non-white immigration,” becoming the very thing the left accused them of all along - while ignoring the fact that Asians, for example, commit little crime, use few drugs, and are some of the top earners and contributors to the country. All the hopes and dreams of “promises made, promises kept,” are evaporating in real time, with few able to further justify the increasingly obvious: the downfall of the Republic has been monetized and archetypically framed. With riots all across the country, fears of a black and white racial war have instead manifested as Mexican and American; the fear of outright civil war has manifested as a problem-reaction-solution of absolute information control and military martial law in the name of defending the country. Now the “No Kings” movement has nationwide protests planned for June 14th, 2025, the day of Saturn. Rather than arresting the organizers behind that, and the riots via the communist Indivisible, the AG has instead sued a coffee shop for antisemitism. The protests are meant to resist the massive military parade and presidential birthday parade in Washington on the same day. Don't like it? You will be met with “very big force,” says the President, if you don't like his “big parade.” BIG beautiful bill anyone? Not even Roman emperors held military parades for their birthdays, but they did hold them for victories in battle. So either the Trump camp is totally delusional, considering nationwide civil war as victory, or the display is meant to put the final nail in the Constitutional coffin. It all culminates with the US suddenly pulling all nonessential staff from embassies across the Middle East and putting the country on high alert the same week. The word is Iran is prepared to strike Israel's nuclear sites and Israel is fully poised to strike Iran (thus, the Houthis are warning of war too), and regardless of what the fake Donald-Benjamin feud suggests, the US will sacrifice its own citizens for the jewish state, which itself will, under the Samson Option, destroy the entire world if it doesn't get its way. Hence, the fake (maybe real) threat of Benjamin Netanyahu circulating the Internet: “if we do fall, many parts of the world will fall with us.” *The is the FREE archive, which includes advertisements. If you want an ad-free experience, you can subscribe below underneath the show description.-FREE ARCHIVE (w. ads)SUBSCRIPTION ARCHIVEX / TWITTER FACEBOOKYOUTUBEMAIN WEBSITECashApp: $rdgable Paypal email rdgable1991@gmail.comEMAIL: rdgable@yahoo.com / TSTRadio@protonmail.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-secret-teachings--5328407/support.

It's that time again...another episode of Afternoona Delight Uncensored: unedited, unvarnished, unhinged? Join Amy, Lia and Megan as we have a freewheeling drama conversation about everything from misunderstood walking emotional boo boos vs a well-adjusted emotionally stable heroes, character astrology, novels we wish would be made into a K-drama, and much much more.Ready to download your first audiobook? Don't forget to click HERE for your free Audible trial.*Audible is a sponsor of Afternoona Delight Podcast*Are your family and friends sick of you talking about K-drama? We get it...and have an answer. Join our AfterNoona Delight Patreon and find community among folks who get your obsession. And check out www.afternoonadelight.com for more episodes, book recs and social media goodness. And don't forget about the newest member of our network: Afternoona Asks where diaspora Asians living in the West find ways to reconnect to Asian culture via Asian/KDramas.Last but CERTAINLY not least....love BTS? Or curious what all the fuss is about? Check out our sister pod Afternoona Army for "thinky, thirsty and over thirty" takes on Bangtan life. ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Greg and Ed discuss the recent troubling decrease in overall Thai tourism numbers. In general, since COVID, the Thai tourism industry has bounced back quite well, and projections were that 2025 numbers would exceed the pre-COVID peak of 39 million visitors. However, starting at the end of last year, numbers didn't meet expectations, and since then the dip has become more severe. So what happened? The guys cycle through several different factors. First, the earthquake at the end of March certainly didn't help matters, with many tourists canceling their trips for the Thai New Year in April. Second, and perhaps more concerning, several security incidents affecting Chinese tourists has led to a bit of a backlash in the largest source of tourists to Thailand. In particular, a Chinese celebrity was kidnapped and held for ransom, sparking fears that Thailand was not safe. Further, numerous stories of Burmese and Cambodian scam call centers that press foreigners into service have magnified the problem. Ed notes that while overall numbers have dipped, the numbers from most Western countries have risen in accord with projections. Hence, the problem is limited to Asian tourists. Greg points out that the ‘White Lotus Effect' might be the kind of thing that sparks interest in Westerners, but not in Asians, who may already feel familiar with a tropical climate and many aspects of Thai culture.  Don't forget that Patrons get the ad-free version of the show as well as swag and other perks. We also sometimes post on Facebook, you can contact us on LINE and of course, head to our website (www.bangkokpodcast.com) to find out probably more info than you need to know.

In this episode of "Shoes Off Inside", we attempt to talk about everything and the kitchen sink because there is so much happening every week, every day, every hour. May, Kelly and Tamlyn recorded this episode before protests against ICE raids in the Los Angeles area were inflamed by Trump's order to send in the National Guard and threats of U.S. military intervention. But make no mistake, MKT do NOT hold back when it comes to their thoughts on Donald Trump and his policies, Elon Musk and his erratic behavior. But at the heart of this episode is a very sincere, vulnerable and painful talk about our elderly parents and the struggle and heartbreak of caretaking...especially as Asians. Get your tissues ready. This will strike a chord regardless of your situation because it's about the power of love and what we're willing to do for our loved ones.Please subscribe, rate and review us!And follow us on IG @shoesoffinsidemkt

Owen Thiele (Adults, Overcompensating) joins us in the call center to take stunning problems over the phone. We speak to callers about accidentally recruiting the fellow half Asians at work for a threesome, making out at the company outing, and stealing your boyfriends roommates toothbrushes.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.