Podcast appearances and mentions of Jeff Chang

We discuss Black Yacht Rock and hip hop with Davy D and the TIR Crüe

Read Jeff's work here: https://zentronix.substack.com/   Recently the book, "Can't Stop Won't Stop" about the early beginnings of hip hop was recently banned by the Trump administration. What makes this book so dangerous? We'll discuss with it's author, journalist, and author, Jeff Chang.   Check out our new bi-weekly series, "The Crisis Papers" here: https://www.patreon.com/bitterlakepresents/shop   Thank you guys again for taking the time to check this out. We appreciate each and everyone of you. If you have the means, and you feel so inclined, BECOME A PATRON! We're creating patron only programing, you'll get bonus content from many of the episodes, and you get MERCH!   Become a patron now https://www.patreon.com/join/BitterLakePresents?   Please also like, subscribe, and follow us on these platforms as well, (specially YouTube!)   THANKS Y'ALL   YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG9WtLyoP9QU8sxuIfxk3eg Twitter: @TIRShowOakland Instagram: @thisisrevolutionoakland   Read Jason Myles in Sublation Magazine https://www.sublationmag.com/writers/jason-myles   Read Jason Myles in Damage Magazine https://damagemag.com/2023/11/07/the-man-who-sold-the-world/   Read Jason in Unaligned Here: https://substack.com/home/post/p-161586946...   Read "We're All Sellout Now" here: https://benburgis.substack.com/.../all-we-ever-wanted-was...

Join us for a talk with the upcoming high school star Hardy Osborn (Jeff Chang). Listen while we talk about a bunch of bucking horses and why rodeo looks like for the boys!

Lindsay and Tim welcome photographer Jeff Chang, who shares his journey in the photography world, the significance behind his business name 'The Apartment', and his unique artistic style. The conversation delves into the challenges of wedding photography, the importance of creative control, and the emotional connections captured through photography. Jeff's insights inspire both budding and seasoned photographers to embrace their craft and explore new possibilities. In this conversation, they explore the intersection of photography, personal growth, and relationships. They discuss how environmental factors influence photography styles, the preference for urban settings over nature, and the impact of travel on creative expression. The dialogue also delves into the emotional challenges faced in personal relationships, particularly within the context of the photography industry, and the importance of open communication and emotional maturity. In this conversation, they talk about the complexities of navigating personal relationships while working together in a business setting, particularly in wedding photography. They discuss the emotional challenges faced during wedding days, the importance of trust and communication in relationships, and how personal growth can influence professional work. The conversation also touches on finding peace amidst chaos and the aspirations for future photography education and connection with others. In this conversation, the speakers delve into various aspects of photography, including untapped markets such as senior portraits and the importance of capturing grandparent-grandchild relationships. They also discuss the role of gear in photography, emphasizing that creativity and personal growth are more important than the latest equipment. The conversation wraps up with Jeff sharing his upcoming speaking engagements and encouraging listeners to reach out with questions. Want us to feature your question, photography story, or industry hot take on an episode? Send us a DM, voice note, or video on instagram @TheShootYourShotPodcast. Your privacy is important to us. If you want to remain anonymous just let us know :) Sign up with Imagen AI to streamline your photo editing and get 1500 edits free! Sign up below for this rad AF offer: https://bit.ly/timothypodcast Become an IG reel-creating machine with Social Templates!  with Promo code: LINDSAY. socialtemplates.co/lindsay Books Referenced: Don't Believe Everything You Think - Joseph Nguyen. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest 03:00 The Mystical Magical 8-Ball and Its Role 05:54 Jeff's Journey as a Photographer 09:08 The Name 'The Apartment' and Its Significance 11:58 Artistic Style and Visual Language 14:57 Challenges in Wedding Photography 17:56 Creative Control and Documenting Moments 22:24 The Impact of Environment on Photography 25:40 Urban vs. Nature: A Photographer's Preference 28:33 Traveling the World: A Photographer's Journey 36:55 Personal Growth Through Photography 39:25 Navigating Relationships in the Photography Industry 55:47 Navigating Relationship Changes in Business 58:44 Emotional Challenges on Wedding Days 01:01:41 The Importance of Trust and Communication 01:03:59 Emotional Growth and Its Impact on Photography 01:10:36 Finding Peace in Chaos 01:16:01 Future Aspirations in Photography Education 01:24:19 Exploring Untapped Photography Markets 01:30:24 The Importance of Grandparent Portraits 01:32:52 Navigating Gear and Equipment in Photography 01:49:26 Jeff's Upcoming Speaking Engagements and Final Thoughts

It's a WPPI recap episode. With a microphone and iphone, Tim and Lindsay walked the floor of the trade show asking photographers questions about gear, technique and hypothetical questions that separate the weak from the strong.  Streeters include Sam Hurd, Jeff Chang, Ana Pastoria. Tune into a future episode to hear from Taylor Jackson, Chris Denner, and Staci Brucks.   Want us to feature your question, photography story, or industry hot take on an episode? Send us a DM, voice note, or video on instagram @TheShootYourShotPodcast. Your privacy is important to us. If you want to remain anonymous just let us know :) Sign up with Imagen AI to streamline your photo editing and get 1500 edits free! Sign up below for this rad AF offer: https://bit.ly/timothypodcast Become an IG reel-creating machine with Social Templates!  with Promo code: LINDSAY. socialtemplates.co/lindsay Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Personal Reflections 03:00 Photography News and Events 06:00 Uplifting Stories in Photography 08:59 New Gear and Innovations 11:48 Experiences at WPPI 2023 15:01 Community and Connections in Photography 17:46 Grilled Cheese Competition Highlights 20:58 Speaking Engagements and Brand Relationships 28:00 Celebrating Achievements and Brand Interactions 33:00 Gear Talk: The Worst Equipment Experiences 38:56 Handling Wedding Day Conflicts 42:51 The Petty Side of Photography 49:07 Creative Choices: Disposable vs. Digital 54:00 Fun and Games: Tattoo Ideas and Future Plans

Join the Imagen Community on Facebook to continue the discussions between episodes.You are invited to revisit standout moments and impactful discussions from the season, during which we've explored incredible stories, innovative techniques, and valuable tips that could reshape your photography game.Thank you to our guests from Season 3 for sharing your thoughts and wisdom with the community: Jerry Ghionis, Vanessa Joy, Carissa Woo, Angela Shae, Natalie Franke, Heather Larkin, Maciej Suwałowski, Erica Thompson Beck, Chris Denner, Debbie-jean Lemonte, Martina Lanotte, Tim Muza, Lindsay Coulter, David England, Vanessa da Silva, Mike Cassara, Lauren O'Brien, Michelle Harris, Jeff Chang,  Elena S Blair, Nikki Closser, and John Branch IV.Help shape the future of The Workflows Photography Podcast by discussing season 3 in the Imagen Community. Subscribe to the Workflows Photography Podcast, leave a review, and never miss an episode.

Chapter 1 What's We Gon' Be Alright by Jeff Chang"We Gon' Be Alright" by Jeff Chang is an exploration of resilience and hope amid adversity, particularly within the context of the Black Lives Matter movement and American social justice struggles. Chang examines the historical roots of systemic racism and the ways in which communities come together to fight for equality and change. His writing reflects on the power of collective action and the importance of maintaining faith in a better future, even when facing obstacles. Through personal narratives and cultural analysis, Chang weaves a message of empowerment, emphasizing that despite challenges, there is a shared strength that guides communities toward justice and healing. This work serves as a reminder of the ongoing fight for civil rights and the belief that, ultimately, we will overcome.Chapter 2 We Gon' Be Alright by Jeff Chang Summary"We Gon' Be Alright: Notes on Race and Resilience" by Jeff Chang is a poignant exploration of race, identity, and resilience in America, particularly in the context of social justice movements and contemporary challenges faced by marginalized communities.Chang draws on personal experiences, historical context, and current events to articulate the struggles and aspirations of people of color. He delves into the impact of systemic racism and the ongoing fight for equity, weaving in narratives of activism from various communities.Throughout the book, Chang emphasizes the power of collective resilience and the importance of uplifting voices that challenge oppression. He advocates for solidarity among different racial and ethnic groups, highlighting that the fight against inequality is interconnected across various social movements."We Gon' Be Alright" serves as a rallying cry, inspiring readers to engage with the ongoing struggle for justice and to envision a future defined by hope and unity. Chang's insightful reflections resonate deeply in today's socio-political climate, making this work a vital contribution to the discourse on race and society.Chapter 3 We Gon' Be Alright AuthorJeff Chang is an American author, journalist, and cultural critic known for exploring themes of race, culture, and social issues in the United States. His book "We Gon' Be Alright: Notes on Race and Resegregation" was released on August 23, 2016. This work reflects on contemporary issues of race and identity, particularly in the context of racial tensions and the Black Lives Matter movement.In addition to "We Gon' Be Alright," Jeff Chang has authored other notable works:"Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation" (2005) This book is critically acclaimed and explores the cultural and social history of hip-hop and its impact on society."Who We Be: A Cultural History of Race in Post-Civil Rights America" (2014) In this book, Chang examines race and identity in contemporary America, understanding how cultural shifts have influenced racial perceptions."The Children of 1968" (edited) This anthology captures reflections and essays of individuals who were shaped by the events of 1968, offering insights into activism and society.In terms of editions, "Can't Stop Won't Stop" is often regarded as one of his best works due to its in-depth analysis of the hip-hop culture, its social context, and its lasting influence. The book has received several updated editions since its initial publication, which include new insights and reflections on the evolution of hip-hop.Chapter 4 We Gon' Be Alright Meaning & ThemeWe Gon' Be Alright Meaning"We Gon' Be Alright" by Jeff Chang is a poignant commentary that underscores the resilience and hope found within communities facing systemic oppression and challenges. The phrase itself, popularized by the hip-hop artist Kendrick Lamar in his song "Alright," serves as an anthem for perseverance in the face...

Join Rahul for an insightful conversation with Sharrone Calafiore, founder of Fiore Films. Known for her distinctive cinematic style, Sharrone crafts wedding films that masterfully blend composition, timing, and sound to create unforgettable stories. In this episode, she shares her expertise on lighting techniques, music selection, client education, and her approach to deliverables. Discover why she views editing as a creative puzzle and learn about her unique perspective on wedding day coverage, including her intentional choice to skip cocktail hour filming. NINEDOTS 2024 - MANCHESTER - LAST FEW TICKETS REMAINING12 + 13th November 2024Our speaker line up so far includes:MATTEO CARTA . LISA DEVLINSACHIN KHONA . KATE HAMPSON . DAVE SCHOLESASSUMPTA VITCU . HOLLIE MATEER . DAN MORRISANNA PUMER . JEFF CHANG . RONAN PALLISERBook now: https://nine-dots.co/gatheringThe carefully curated schedule ensures that all photographers, new and experienced, will take lots of new skills away from the event. From live shoots, to business advice, how to book more weddings, practical tips, personal development, there really is something for everyone. For more information visit: nine-dots.co/gathering to see highlights of our past events and what we have in store for 2024! Find out about, and book your place on, the GREAT ESCAPE LUXURY RETREAT for wedding photographers. Apr 29 - May 2 2024.Join PicTime using the code 'NINEDOTS'  and new users will receive one bonus month when upgrading to any Pic-Time paid planSupport the showSupport the show

Have you ever wondered how top photographers seamlessly engage, onboard, and sustain exceptional client relationships? This episode takes you behind the lens to uncover those secrets!Jeff Chang and Scott Wyden Kivowitz discuss effective client engagement strategies and the intricacies of running a successful photography business. From initial email and video contact to comprehensive meetings, learn how to build trust and communicate effectively, ensuring a smooth experience on the wedding day. Get practical tips like the "cooler hack" for hot days and insights into efficient photo backup processes. Discover why spontaneous portraits at cocktail receptions are a potential game-changer and gain valuable strategies to enhance your workflow, from editing to final photo delivery.Jeff Chang, co-founder of The Apartment Photo and winner of the International Wedding Photographer of the Year Award, boasts 15 years of capturing love stories across five continents. When he's not finding new ways to create meaningful experiences for his clients, he's following another of his passions, engaging with the photography community through speaking at industry events and creating educational content on Instagram, which has just reached over 15 million views. "Building trust and maintaining effective communication with clients forms the foundation of better work and opens the door to increased opportunities."Why You Should ListenMaster the art of engaging potential clients and seamless onboarding.Gain actionable strategies to ensure smooth photography sessions on wedding days.Learn efficient photo backup techniques to safeguard your work.Discover creative hacks for unique wedding shots and spontaneous portraits.Enhance your client experience with personal touches and effective follow-ups.Don't miss out on this wealth of knowledge that can streamline your workflow and elevate your client interactions. Tune in to the Workflows photography podcast now!(00:00) - Jeff Chang (05:09) - What is one thing that you do for the photographic process that has saved you time? (11:11) - What is one thing that you do for the business that saves you time or money? (13:40) - What is one thing that you do for editing that has saved you time? (20:02) - What is one thing that you do after a session that has increased business? (29:37) - Can you share an outlined breakdown of your workflow from lead to delivery? (50:42) - How did Imagen impact your life? Join the Imagen Community on Facebook to continue the discussions between episodes.

Join Rahul in conversation with Assumpta Vitcu, the founder of a multicultural wedding planning company, based in London - Ave Creations, as they explore the art of multicultural wedding planning. Together they discuss experience and growing your business, photographer-planner collaborations, industry ethics, keys to exceptional client service plus kickbacks, current trends and much more. NINEDOTS 2024 - MANCHESTER - LAST FEW TICKETS REMAINING12 + 13th November 2024Our speaker line up so far includes:MATTEO CARTA . LISA DEVLINSACHIN KHONA . KATE HAMPSON . DAVE SCHOLESASSUMPTA VITCU . HOLLIE MATEER . DAN MORRISANNA PUMER . JEFF CHANG . RONAN PALLISERBook now: https://nine-dots.co/gatheringThe carefully curated schedule ensures that all photographers, new and experienced, will take lots of new skills away from the event. From live shoots, to business advice, how to book more weddings, practical tips, personal development, there really is something for everyone. For more information visit: nine-dots.co/gathering to see highlights of our past events and what we have in store for 2024! Find out about, and book your place on, the GREAT ESCAPE LUXURY RETREAT for wedding photographers. Apr 29 - May 2 2024.Join PicTime using the code 'NINEDOTS'  and new users will receive one bonus month when upgrading to any Pic-Time paid planSupport the showSupport the show

Send us a Text Message.In this episode Matt talks with two guests, Jeff Chang - a police sniper/instructor and also a former Marine Corps sniper. Tyler Ellsworth is also a police sniper/instructor and owner/operator of Standing Offhand with co-owner Jeff. In this episode we discuss the Trump shooting incident, the police sniper mission, and selecting good candidates. Please enjoy the show!Standing Offhand:https://www.standingoffhand.com/Social: @standing_offhandThe OpTempo Training Group website for an updated list of classes:https://optempotraining.com/@optempotraining on Instagram and FacebookFind us on Youtube at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4kBpYUjDdve9BULTHRF2Bw/featured?view_as=subscriberLowa BootsIG: @lowa.professional and @lowabootshttps://www.lowaboots.com/

Jeff Chang, President and Co-founder of Vest Financial, discusses the growth of buffered investments over the past few years. Reach us at https://www.ftportfolios.com/Connect with us on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/first-trust/Follow us on 'X' @ftportfolios

In which the Curmudgeons marvel at how quickly, and how well, hip-hop evolved after the Sugar Hill Gang's massive 1979 hit "Rapper's Delight" changed the game completely for everyone. We tell the story of how entrepreneurs, hustlers and visionaries seized the moment to bridge gaps between the streets, the art galleries and the record-label boardrooms. We celebrate a string of amazing singles that grew in sophistication and in pure fun with each volley. And we mark the beginning of the album as a hip-hop artform by discussing two classics, Run-D.M.C.'s self-titled debut and LL Cool J's Radio.    Listen to all of this great music by accessing our Spotify playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0H0DTcK3EqlQvVXIF4UK7U?si=900ad05efec74d30   Check out these books, which we discuss during the episode:   Jeff Chang's "Can't Stop, Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation": https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/cant-stop-wont-stop-a-history-of-the-hip-hop-generation_jeff-chang_dj-kool-herc/257047/?resultid=64846f2c-3a5f-46cd-80fc-c72a7f0af996#edition=4070729&idiq=4560452   Jonathan Abrams' "The Come Up: An Oral History of the Rise of Hip-Hop": https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-come-up-an-oral-history-of-the-rise-of-hip-hop_jonathan-abrams/35084204/?resultid=76479560-1d4a-4cb7-9ce1-4ba7ff020fe0#edition=64092613&idiq=55408108   Here is handy navigation companion to this episode.   (0:52 - 03:50) - Arturo Andrade sets the parameters for our discussion   (03:55 - 18:36) - The Parallel Universe, featuring reviews of albums by Otoboke Beaver and Slift   (19:21 - 44:10) - WE discuss the success of "Rapper's Delight" and its explosive aftermath. We feature Kurits Blow, Fab 5 Freddy, the movie "Wild Style" and other accomplishers and accomplishments.   (45:03 - 01:37:00) - We cover a litany of fantastic singles, plus the albums Run-D.M.C. and Radio.   Join our Curmudgeonly Community today! facebook.com/groups/curmudgeonrock   Hosted on Podbean! curmudgeonrock.podbean.com   Subscribe to our show on these platforms: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-curmudgeon-rock-report/id1551808911   https://open.spotify.com/show/4q7bHKIROH98o0vJbXLamB?si=5ffbdc04d6d44ecb   https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy80M   Co-written and co-produced by Arturo Andrade & Christopher O'Connor - The Curmudgeons      

It's that time of year again when we gather together to remember the year that was, share expectations for the year ahead, and celebrate. We'll start our evening with Michelle Meow interviewing the two Jeffs—Jeff Yang, author of the new book The Golden Screen: The Movies That Made Asian America (which features a foreword by Michelle Yeoh and an afterword by Jon M. Chu), and Jeff Chang, author and editor of numerous books, including the forthcoming Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America. After that, we'll head to our beautiful second-floor lounge for some food, drink, music and togetherness.  Reserve your ticket early and join us in-person for our once-a-year tradition at The Commonwealth Club's bayfront home! See more  Michelle Meow Show programs at Commonwealth Club World Affairs of California. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Millennials will never know a world without hip hop, and frankly, we're all better for it. Author, journalist, scholar, and all-around visionary Jeff Chang joins Amy and Rebecca to share about his first introduction to hip hop, how it serves as a guide to liberation and how it's just a part of who we all are now. He also weighs in on which album is better: The Low End Theory or Midnight Marauders? Jeff Chang is a writer, thinker, and cultural organizer. His Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation was named one of the best U.S. nonfiction books of the last quarter century. His other books include Who We Be: A Cultural History of Race in Post Civil Rights America and We Gon' Be Alright: Notes On Race and Resegregation. He is a Lucas Artist Fellow and has received the American Book Award, the Asian American Literary Award, and the USA Ford Fellowship in Literature. He is the host of the podcast, Edge of Reason. He is finishing Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode of the First Trust ROI Podcast, Ryan talks with Jeff Chang, President of CBOE Vest, about two areas of the ETF industry that have seen robust growth over the past few years:  Buffered ETFs and Call-writing ETFs.Reach us at https://www.ftportfolios.com/Connect with us on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/first-trust/Follow us on 'X' @ftportfolios

In which The Curmudgeons give the origins of hip-hop a serious treatment and contemplate the magical melding of time, place and resources that makes its early history so compelling. The pioneers of the genre stared down the destruction and impoverishment of the South Bronx with the swagger of kings, organically spinning celebration, and positivity, out of their circumstances. They also channeled the competitiveness of the streets into hip-hop's four "elements" -- DJing, MCing, breakdancing and graffiti -- ensuring there was as much sport as there was funk. Hip-hop became the ultimate DIY creation as a result.    Check out a book we reference during this episode, Jeff Chang's wonderful "Can;t Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation": https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/cant-stop-wont-stop-a-history-of-the-hip-hop-generation_jeff-chang_dj-kool-herc/257047/?resultid=d57d3cbc-a003-438a-8356-465f82400ec6#isbn=B00A2LU264   Here's a handy navigation for the episode.   (0:54 - 6:20) - Arturo sets the parameters for our discussion   (7:40 - 20:18) - The Parallel Universe, in which we review new music from PJ Harvey and Yard Act   (21:17 - 1:04:59) - Chris, with Arturo's considerable input, discusses four aspects of the hip-hop origin story that make it so unique; plus, we discuss hip-hop "elements" in detail   (1:06:24 - 1:45:48) - We discuss the influence four hip-hop pioneers -- Kool Herc, Afrika Bambaataa, Grandmaster Flash, Grandmaster Caz -- and marvel at the story of "Rapper's Delight," hip-hop's first hit single.    Join our Curmudgeonly Community today! facebook.com/groups/curmudgeonrock   Hosted on Podbean! curmudgeonrock.podbean.com   Subscribe to our show on these platforms: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-curmudgeon-rock-report/id1551808911   https://open.spotify.com/show/4q7bHKIROH98o0vJbXLamB?si=5ffbdc04d6d44ecb   https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy80M

For the 50th Anniversary of Hip Hop, I wanted to talk about hip hop culture (duh Danny). Instead of spending one episode on it, I decided to do a series of short eps about it. In this ep, I talk about the 5 elements of Hip Hop Culture. I take a shot at the ADOS about their dumb opinions about Dj Kool Herc. I do a review of the best hip hop movie of all time: “Wild Style.” I do a review of Jeff Chang's “Can't Stop, Won't Stop: A History of the Hip Hop Generation.” Pass it along and check it out twice. Tell your moms about it. The website is up: https://omisbench.com/ My contact info: IG/Threads: @brotheromi Spills: @dantresomi You can support the podcast with monthly contributions here: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dantresomi/support (Thank you!) For 2023, ONCE AGAIN, my goal is to sell 100 coffee mugs to raise $$$ for the show. Buy one. Heck Buy Two – support a brother: https://www.cafepress.com/omisbench.571434105 Here is the link to my Youtube page with all the old episodes from the previous seasons. Thank you all for the support: https://www.youtube.com/user/BrotherOmi/videos --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dantresomi/support

Llegamos al final de la 1ra temporada, y para despedir la clase te presenté a “Rapper's Delight” – el primer gran éxito comercial de rap. La discusión parte de 1979 para ver la influencia que tuvo este tema en otros géneros musicales y en otras latitudes. Analizo el primer rap en español y concluyo en el 1985, año en el que, en otro party, esta vez en Puerta de Tierra, nace el Hip-Hop en Puerto Rico. La música esta vez está a cargo de mi pana Cardejez. Check us out! Nota: algunas de las fuentes que inspiraron este episodio son Jeff Chang, Can't Stop, Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation, New York: St. Martin's Press, 2005, Raquel Z. Rivera, New York Ricans from the Hip-Hop Zone, New York: Palgrave Macmillan, 2006, Ed Piskor, Hiphop Family Tree Vol. 1 (1970's-1981), Fantagraphics Treasury Ed., 2017, y Kathy Iandoli, God Save the Queens: The Essential History of Women in Hip-Hop, Dey St 2019. La música que uso es de mi colección personal. La mayoría se puede conseguir en línea. De otro lado, si interesas escuchar la música de Vico te invito a pasar por la página de Youtube Rap Clásico del pana Carlos Barajas. El episodio está disponible en Spotify, Stitcher, Google y Apple Podcast y en la mayoría de las plataformas digitales. Recuerda que me encuentras en Instagram como @bocetos.pr. Para más información, colaboraciones o contrataciones, puedes escribir a bocetos.pr@gmail.com. Gracias especiales a Delisa Santana Oquendo, la producción de este proyecto, quien me ayudó a terminar el episodio. Síguela en sus redes como @dliciousdelisa, o por su podcast en @imperfecta.pr. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bocetospr/support

In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu interviews journalist., activist, and public intellectual Jeff Chang. Jeff's most recent book, We Gon' Be Alright: Notes On Race and Resegregation (Picador), was called by the Washington Post “the smartest book of the year,” and inspired a four-episode digital series adaptation for PBS Indie Lens Storycast. He was named to the Frederick Douglass 200, as one of “200 living individuals who best embody the work and spirit of Douglass.”They discuss Supreme Court's recent decision on affirmative action. The plaintiffs of that case, “Students for Fair Admission,” an organization started and led by non-student Ed Blum, made particular use of Asian Americans as a kind of stand-in for whites. Jeff and I talk about the history of that tactic, which dates back the late Sixties, and especially the 1980s, the years of the Reagan presidency. They also talk about the ways in which many liberal and progressive Asian Americans and others took shelter under Harvard University's defense of “diversity.” Jeff points out that such a move effectively erases the long-term bias Harvard and other elite universities have displayed toward Jews and Asian Americans, and backs away from a true and historically honest confrontation with America's racism.Jeff Chang's Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation won the American Book Award and the Asian American Literary Award. His most recent book, We Gon' Be Alright: Notes On Race and Resegregation, was named the Northern California Nonfiction Book Of The Year. His bylines have appeared in The Guardian, the Washington Post, the New York Times, the San Francisco Chronicle, and the Los Angeles Times. He was previously the Executive Director of the Institute for Diversity in the Arts at Stanford University and led the Butterfly Lab for Immigrant Narrative Strategy.https://jeffchang.net/www.palumbo-liu.com https://speakingoutofplace.com https://twitter.com/palumboliu?s=20

In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu interviews journalist., activist, and public intellectual Jeff Chang. Jeff's most recent book, We Gon' Be Alright: Notes On Race and Resegregation (Picador), was called by the Washington Post “the smartest book of the year,” and inspired a four-episode digital series adaptation for PBS Indie Lens Storycast. He was named to the Frederick Douglass 200, as one of “200 living individuals who best embody the work and spirit of Douglass.”They discuss Supreme Court's recent decision on affirmative action. The plaintiffs of that case, “Students for Fair Admission,” an organization started and led by non-student Ed Blum, made particular use of Asian Americans as a kind of stand-in for whites. Jeff and I talk about the history of that tactic, which dates back the late Sixties, and especially the 1980s, the years of the Reagan presidency. They also talk about the ways in which many liberal and progressive Asian Americans and others took shelter under Harvard University's defense of “diversity.” Jeff points out that such a move effectively erases the long-term bias Harvard and other elite universities have displayed toward Jews and Asian Americans, and backs away from a true and historically honest confrontation with America's racism.Jeff Chang's Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation won the American Book Award and the Asian American Literary Award. His most recent book, We Gon' Be Alright: Notes On Race and Resegregation, was named the Northern California Nonfiction Book Of The Year. His bylines have appeared in The Guardian, the Washington Post, the New York Times, the San Francisco Chronicle, and the Los Angeles Times. He was previously the Executive Director of the Institute for Diversity in the Arts at Stanford University and led the Butterfly Lab for Immigrant Narrative Strategy.https://jeffchang.net/www.palumbo-liu.com https://speakingoutofplace.com https://twitter.com/palumboliu?s=20

On today's Speaking Out of Place we talk with journalist., activist, and public intellectual Jeff Chang.  Jeff's most recent book, We Gon' Be Alright: Notes On Race and Resegregation (Picador), was called by the Washington Post  “the smartest book of the year,” and inspired a four-episode digital series adaptation for PBS Indie Lens Storycast. He was named to the Frederick Douglass 200, as one of “200 living individuals who best embody the work and spirit of Douglass.”  We talk about the Supreme Court's recent decision on affirmative action. The plaintiffs of that case, “Students for Fair Admission,” an organization started and led by non-student Ed Blum, made particular use of Asian Americans as a kind of stand-in for whites.  Jeff and I talk about the history of that tactic, which dates back the late Sixties, and especially the 1980s, the years of the Reagan presidency. We also discuss the ways in which many liberal and progressive Asian Americans and others took shelter under Harvard University's defense of “diversity.” Jeff points out that such a move effectively erases the long-term bias Harvard and other elite universities have displayed toward Jews and Asian Americans, and backs away from a true and historically honest confrontation with America's racism. Jeff Chang's Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation won the American Book Award and the Asian American Literary Award. His most recent book, We Gon' Be Alright: Notes On Race and Resegregation (Picador), was named the Northern California Nonfiction Book Of The Year, called by the Washington Post “the smartest book of the year,” and inspired a four-episode digital series adaptation for PBS Indie Lens Storycast. He was named to the Frederick Douglass 200, as one of “200 living individuals who best embody the work and spirit of Douglass.” His bylines have appeared in The Guardian, the Washington Post, the New York Times, the San Francisco Chronicle, and the Los Angeles Times. He was previously the Executive Director of the Institute for Diversity in the Arts at Stanford University and led the Butterfly Lab for Immigrant Narrative Strategy.

 Aloha friends, it's Robert Stehlik. Welcome to another episode of the Blue Planet Show, which is all about foiling. Today's video is basically a recap of the Voyager X Wet Feet downwind race here on Oahu. It was probably the biggest foil race we've had here on Oahu anyways, maybe anywhere. I'm not sure, over a hundred participants. So it's cool to see so many people entering. Standup paddle racing has been shrinking, but foiling is definitely growing fast. I'm talking with Brian Tricario and Derek Hamasaki. Who finished first and second in this race, in the wing foil division. And we got some really great footage from many different people filming along the way, so I really appreciate everyone submitting their footage, sending it to me so we could put together this video for you. We have the first part, which is a quicker recap of the race, put together by Lucas who also was flying the drone and so on. And then the second part we go into a little bit more detail and showing a lot of footage of the race itself. Harold was in a dinghy following the whole race with this camera, so got some good footage from along the race, so I hope you enjoy it. Without further ado, here is the Voyager Downwind race. Aloha friends, it's Robert with Planet Surf and I have Alex Aguera with me here getting ready to get on the water for the maybe the biggest down wind foil race ever. What do you think? I don't know about that, but it's got quite a lot of participants. I heard there's a hundred people competing today, so it's big. Yeah. And it's all foiling. Standup foiling, wing foiling, and then also some guys are doing prone foiling from Cromwell to the finish, which is by Suicides. Yeah. What are you using today? I think I'm gonna use a 6.5M and a 600 foil 96 liter board. Good float board. There you go. A big combo. Yeah. And then the wind, it's windy today, so that kind of is good for a bit heavier guys. Yeah. Hopefully I don't get lit up too much. Sometimes I really light guys like Derek are really good at light wind. But then, I don't know, Derek. You say something too. What were you talking about? Talk about your equipment. What you got. Oh, I got a same like Alex 600 front wing hand wing is six meter and a 10 inch tail. Trying to go as fast as you guys. They should have a category of their own, oh yeah. Listen to you. It's called oil company owners. So yeah. We'll add that next time. Oh yeah. So we see you. And then hope you enjoy the race. Okay, so I got Derek Kawasaki and Brian Rio here with me, and we're gonna do a little voiceover of this race. So thanks for joining me guys. Yeah, no problem. Awesome. Thanks for having us. Yeah. So we're gonna talk a little bit about. The race. Do a little race recap, talk about who is in the race, the equipment strategy, technique, conditions, training the upcoming races in July. And then also, how, how standup foiling compares with the wing foiling. And the first part of the video is a shorter recap of the race with some cool drone footage from several sources. So we got Lucas filming at the beginning for some. Water shots from Derek and also Jeff Chang. And then Harold is the guy in that dingy who's, who filmed the whole race with his cell phone. So we got some cool footage of the whole race. In the second part of the video, we're gonna show a little bit more detail and go into like more detailed stuff about racing and winging and. Standup foiling and all that. I tried to get Kane to Wild on to join us too, but I didn't hear back from him, unfortunately. So I'm trying to get this video up by tomorrow, Saturday, a week later after the race. Pretty exciting. So maybe you guys talk a little bit about the start, right? Go ahead, Derek. Okay. The start was Pretty, it was pretty organized. People was spread apart, wingers were drifting further up, wind. We could fly up wind and then just sit with the sub guys going down. So we all just hung out. They gave us a one minute prior to they said we're ready to go. And then Everybody's sitting down on their boards or crouching down on the boards. And once it said go, it was on the wind was cranking out there. It was nice and it was a steady flow. I know a lot of people said they had a hard time getting up in the beginning cuz the bumps was outrageous, which is good. Yeah. What, how was your start, Brian? Yeah, it was good. It was hectic. A lot of people around A lot of people, you got your wingers starting, some are going right, some are going left, and then you have your sub coilers pretty much starting straight down swell. So if you weren't on the end and you were in the middle of the pack, there was a lot of traffic. So getting up fast was critical. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You definitely wanna get up quick and get going in front of everybody. That way you don't have to dodge everyone. And then also whatever boats or safety, and vessels was out there, the skis or whatever. Sometimes you gotta go chew their things and then you cannot push it. You want to just get through and whatnot. But it was, yeah, it was real. Get up and try to stay in front, yeah. I thought one thing about the start that went worked well compared to last year that at the Blue Water race, it was really spread out the start line, right? This time they had like a couple jet skis going back and forth. So they made a line like where nobody could get way ahead of everyone else. So that, and plus everyone had to sit on their boards at the start. So I thought the start, it was a pretty, pretty fair start for everyone. Like you said, you did have to make sure you don't have someone right your way as you're take trying to take off. Otherwise you're like especially cuz Yeah, the. Boiler, the standup boilers, we're going straight down wind, and we have to go a little bit at an angle to the wind, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think next time, like when sitting at the dinner table, you go with somebody that's getting up on one right? Reach and you get the other person sitting up on the opposite reach, you don't wanna be going crossing, right? Yep. True. So this is Kane the wild harold followed Kane pretty much the whole race with his dingy. So we got a lot of footage of Kane and then I think this is you Derek. Yeah. Yeah, I think you and I crossing back and forth in between. Yeah. And then this is getting close to the finish line, and as you can see, there was like a buoy on the outside of the waves. But then there was the wave, the surf was pretty big. And you couldn't really see where the finish was. Yeah, I couldn't, there was like, I was right. I came in first. I had no idea. I like, I just didn't know the area very well. But you can see here, there's that channel and I ended up too far. Upwind coming in too far. Upwind of the channel. And then you also came up in too far up when yet Derek? Yeah, I hooked around the buoy and then I, but I came in cause I saw you. So I pulled back up when, and I came into the finish line, but. Unfortunately when we were in that channel, there was no buoys. Oh crap. And yeah. So then all of a sudden there's both of us didn't see the finish line and went to the wrong, cuz you went too far upwind. And then and then Brian. Yeah. What happened when you came in? You saw us too? Or what? What happened? No, I thought you guys finished already. I came in before I hit that red buoy I fell cause I was too busy looking at where the channel was cuz you couldn't see anything. I was just focusing on where's the channel looking right? And I wound up breaching, falling. It's on the video too. And then I'm scrambling to get back up and made the right and I shot straight for the white condos. And then at the top of the swell I saw Jeff on the inside on the ski. And I just tried to shoot for the ski when I could see it. And I barely snuck in on the town side of the channel. I wound up going right at the pilings dry reef area and Saw that last second and hooked right. And snuck in there. But it was definitely a, it was tough to spot that channel. Yeah. Yeah. Congrats on that. So Brian won the race and then Derek came in second. Yeah, I guess so Derek, you were able to turn around and go back out and back in again? Or like how did you end up finish? Yeah. Yeah, so initially when I first came in, I saw you and I was like, okay, right on Robert first, and then I'll just come in behind, and because I didn't see any of the suppers too, so I was like, oh, okay. Awesome. But. When I was coming in, there was set waves, so in front of me was all white water. I couldn't see the reef, nothing at all. And then behind me, the wave was overhead, so I just had to hold onto my wing and just hope for the best, yeah. You just focusing on me at all. Yeah. I didn't wanna fall and get cleaned out by the. White water behind me. So just went in and then once we went in and realized, okay, this is the wrong spot. Went to turn, hit the reef and went down, I'm like, oh, crap. And then while I was in the water trying to get up, I looked over towards the west and I noticed the ski and the other buoys and go, oh, crap, too early. Okay. So I was able, there's enough wind coming in that area for the foil that I was on and my weight. Get back on foil. Come up and fly around. And then when I was coming around, I saw Brian's wing that was inside. So I was like, oh, okay that's it. So came in like just skirted the reef on that channel and then just came around and then passed the boy evening and then did that. Cool. All right. So here we have the start again. So we doing a little bit extended version of the race again here, and then Harold's following Kane to Wild, and you can see he got a really good start, like pretty much on the second bump that went under Hemi. He was able to take off and then he just took off at high speed. I, he has a lift 900 foil, I think. So really pretty small foil for standup foiling. And he was flying, he was making really good time. Yeah, it's actually I was amazed how fast he was going. Cuz I, I thought I was going pretty fast with the Mike's lab five 40, which is a pretty fast foil. And the wing and the, the wind was pretty strong. But he was right there. He was like, we were just head to head for quite a while and then, Actually the only other person I saw Rami was Derek. And you were more on the inside, right? Yes. You took more of an inside line, right? Yes. But let's talk a little bit about the difference between wing foiling and standup downward foiling. So I guess one of the things is definitely that you can tell is that you can see I'm like zigzagging a little bit back and forth. I. And then the more I turn down wind, the less wind I have in the wing and Kane is just going straight down wind in a straight line almost, like doing some turns and stuff. But I guess that's one of the things that we can probably go faster, but it's harder for us to go straight down, win, right? Yeah, we cover more distance, but yeah they they can just go, we go faster and more distance, but they can just go straight, straight or line. Yeah. I think if it was windier. If it was windier and we can actually go straight down wind, that's another story but's, it's gotta blow real hard for that with a big wing, but Yeah. Yeah. But the thing is also that once you're going straight down wind, Then no matter how windy does it usually, like you end up going faster than the wind. A lot. If you're on a bump going straight down wind, basically the wind is almost there's just no wind in your sail. So no matter how big your wing is, it's gonna be in the way. Actually in the bigger the wing is, the more drag it has too. Yeah that one training run I tried using an eight meter wing and it did have more power, so I could go a little bit steeper angle down one, but then once you are going faster than the wind, then it's such a big wing and it's in the way more, it's harder to jive and handle in the air. So in this race I was using a six meter, which that's the size you were using too, Derek, right? How is it? Yes. How is six meters for you? It was perfect. I was able to use it as a almost an umbrella holding down wind and use it as straight, they didn't really need to go left and right, could just hold it up and down like the center truck. Just straight up and down and just, I just had to make sure I wasn't going through a trough or, not in anybody's way. But yeah, it was pretty good. Really good. What about you Brian? What was your strategy for trying to go fast? I. Just I tried to go farther outside hoping the wind was a little better out there. It was still good everywhere, but yeah, I just, I tried to go left a little more and just try to go get as far outside without going too crazy. And then just whatever bumps I ride, continue left and just keep trying to go left. So when it's time to go down, wind it's a little easier for me, but, Yeah, I was looking for you guys outside thinking your way outside and I didn't, I wasn't seeing you. So then I finally, I looked on the inside and I was like, oh, there's Derek and Rob. But yeah. Did you feel like, it seemed to me like in the middle of the race, like closer as we were getting closer to Diamond at, it seemed like it was like flattened out a little bit. Yeah, it would the bumps were really nice in the beginning. Yeah. And then there was a little, there kinda a middle part that was not as good. Yeah, I felt to having, I had to pump the wing a lot just to keep the same speed as I had in the beginning between pumping the foil and pumping the wing. Yeah, there was definitely a little bit of a lighter in the middle. Yeah. I think the ground as well was, actually, let me talk about this real quick. I'm sorry. Kane. Oh, Kane this is where Kane fell in. I didn't see it happening, but he said he thought he hit a fish maybe underwater, like it just his foil just stopped and he, so he went over the handlebars and then his board is like super narrow on the bottom. It just pretty much just rounded off bottom with a very small flat area. And and that, and then this was all, and it was Derek, so yeah, I was like, oh, come on Kane, go. So the board is so tippy and narrow. And then this was the area where it was a little bit flatter, not as, the bumps were a little bit and the wind was lighter. So it was actually, he said it was pretty hard for him to get going again and he actually like pulled himself off the board here trying to get on one. But, so it's actually pretty impressive that even though he fell in, he was still able to win the race. And then that was also cause. You can see here that several guys passed him and then, but then he was still able to pull, catch him at the end. Yeah. And just get him in the end. And so you really, you can tell how big of a difference it makes if you just fall in or a anything, get delayed for a little bit. Can't get up on foot right away. Cuz everyone's so close together, moving so fast that yeah, just a small. And everyone else is like now way ahead of him. Like you can see our our wings are like kind of way in the distance. Yeah. Yeah. So what about your Derek what was your strategy? I noticed you were a little bit more on the inside, right? Yeah. Never really had a strategy. It just was follow you. That's pretty much how I was doing so, but the one thing I learned is when I was coming by Diamond Ed, I felt fell in actually I fell three, three times I fell. Oh. And one thing I learned was don't use polarized glasses out there. Cause it, it gives you a false sense of depth perception. Oh I can see, I could see through the wave and a few times I went left to go over that swell and to the next one. And my rail was just caught into the wave and I was like, what the heck? Fell, get back up, go in again. And then as soon as I fell twice, I took off Myla, put my glasses on top of my hat, and then I was like, okay, now I can see the, through the true, Height the depth of the wave. And then I was good and then the last time I fell was inside on that shallow reef and then had to fly again. But yeah just follow the line. Sometimes it's hard. I know even when it is doing regular Santa braces and when you're in a front, it's hard because you don't have anything really pushing you. But sometimes when you behind somebody, you can just trail 'em and find their good stuff. But I did learn not to follow Rob to the ending because he never had, he didn't have his, he usually don't have his glasses and he. Wrong turn or whatever. Then you follow him and you're like, oh man, what's going on? Yeah. When I'm driving, I'm wearing glasses cuz my vision is not the best. So Yeah. Don't follow me at the finish, especially if I have no one else to follow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that was good. It was a strategy. I just went on the inside, the fastest line, and then even when it got lighter on the inside, when I seen you got, people was breaking away, I was able to just hold my wing straight up and down and just pump it that way and then try to get going. So I, instead of switching hands how like you would go hill side, toe side, whatever, I would just stay. Side and just raise the wing straight up and down with the leading edge up, point it up to the sky and hold it that way. And then go angle it left a little bit if I wanted to or Right. And then that way I don't waste time switching hands and stuff like that. Okay. Yeah. So basically you always keep your hands in the same position. You just even if you turn out a little bit, Turn in, majority of the time. Yes. Yeah. That's a good strategy basically. And then the more you can go straight towards the finish, the better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brian and Robert were you guys using your extra leash or the long leash to catch more when deal? Like a kite ish reach. No, I wasn't. Just cuz I've had, I've fallen a couple times when I let the front handle go and use the leash. It works fantastic, but I have to pay too much attention to the wing when a gust comes and then less attention to the swell and the waves and then I wind up crashing or something. I have less control of the wing with it in the, in these down, in the bigger down winter days. But like surfing, absolutely like surf when we go out in the White planes, whatever. Absolutely. But not this situation. No. No. Ok. Yeah, same here. I've tried that in the past where I just let the wing fly a little bit higher cuz you can, it seems like you can catch a little bit more wind up higher. But yeah, like Brian said, you just don't have as much control of the wing, especially like I find myself going faster than the wind, a lot of times, like I said, when I turn straight down wind and I'm going on a fast bump, I'm actually holding the wing up, up on top of my head, flatten air, and sometimes with the leading edge. Pointing forward, because that's where the apparent wind is coming from, and then as I slow down, then I turn back in, then I turn it back into the wind, so doing a little bit of a dance with the wing and you need to have really good control of the wing to do that, obviously. Yeah. So you gotta hold it, hold onto it real tight. Yeah. Using those sharp handles. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And what about the foils? Let's talk a little bit about the foil. The foil wings you guys were using, you, you were both on the same go foils wings? No. I think Derek had the 600, I had the six 50 I had the six 50 with the 12 long tail. Derek, what did you have? I had R six. 600 front wing and a 10 inch long tail. So a lot, little bit faster, but more stability than the shorter ones. The shorter feizer, especially since we wanted to, just overtake bumps and stuff like that. Yeah, we wasn't really surfing that one bump or going right and left. I found it more just going over and keeping, like leapfrogging kind of stuff. Especially in a way if the wind allows you, in your wing to catch bumps versus riding swells. Yeah. And then here along, along Diamond head, the bumps got really nice again. Yeah. There were some good fast moving bumps right here. Yeah. Yeah. Great conditions on me. Hit diamond head. Yeah. So you was I noticed Rob, you were on an outside ish and then you shot in, Slingshot in right? Yeah. I kept looking for, I trying to look for where the wind was. And it seemed like the, just the wind line was, to me it's, it looked like it was windier further out. So I tried to stay further out. And then at the end, I figured it's probably better to stay a little bit further out until I get closer and then come in, to avoid any like light wind areas close to diamond after Diamond Lighthouse. Yeah. Cause we did the days before, we did couple trial runs and into the original. So on the race day, they changed the. Channel to a further one further west, which is more towards Waikiki, which is more wind shadowed. So we practice at one. Came out the second day when we came to practice and Jeff said, no, that's not it. It's the next one over. So we went to the next one over and we went in and out a few times and were like, okay, this is gonna be a breeze. We got it. Okay. We lined up the park and all that. And then the restate, I said, no, not those ones. The next one. So yeah, and by the way, there's huge surf and you can't really see where you're going, so yeah. But it was a good call. But they did tell us, actually they did tell us aim for that first building. Like Brian was saying, he aim at the condo building, which was smart. And then I remember. Also Todd Bradley's telling us before the race to make sure you don't go too early, cuz then you get stuck by the reef at suicides and sure enough, that's where we ended up. Yeah. Remember Todd saying, do not cut the corner. It's okay. Don't cut the corner. Yeah. So when you get your shot, go Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. Ahead. No, but that was a good call because the waves were large. There were surfers in the water, the wind around the corner, but what, was like it, it did a little funkiness, so it was a good call for them to move everything little bit further down the coast, but it still was black, pretty black diamond ish that day of the race. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So the finish like coming in through the surf. Yeah, that was Also a little bit scary, right? You don't want to get don't wanna end up in the wrong place coming in through big surf. But here you can see everybody lined up in front of him. So there's what are their names? I think one of them is Nick. And Nick. When he got in the surf, he, I think he fell and broke his paddle. Oh I read that and then that's how Kane was able to pass him and win the race. But you can see I think Derek and me in the front there. Yeah. But yeah, so that it just like the, just because you're leading the race doesn't mean you're gonna win it. So just making it to the finish line is important. Not just in, in racing, but in life as well. So gotta, yeah. Yeah. Make it to the right goal. Not just get ahead. So anyway. And then, but it's kinda cool. Cool. Brian, for you to win this race, cuz you, you're in the Coast Guard, right? And you you're mo getting moved soon, right? Yeah, I'm moving in one week to Sitco Alaska. Yeah. Sunny Tropical, warm Sitco, Alaska. Yeah. He is taking his trophy with him, bragging right. Everything. Yeah, it's awesome. So yeah, it's awesome that you were able to win this race and it's cool too cause we've been all been winging, practicing together. We did a bunch of long runs together. Yeah. And so it's cool that all of us did well and then E Eli as well, Eli was always coming with us too, and just, yeah. Yeah. To have all of us in the front is, was pretty cool. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Fun times. Yeah. Yeah. It is the end. That was definitely a hectic end. Yeah. Yeah. The ending. So some parts of the ending I that I see and then what I noticed was there would probably be, and this was the first one, so you know, like we can only improve from here, is just tell the guys, and I see it in the sub world, the a, the o C one canoes. As soon as you pass, just keep going. Like what happened a bunch of times, and I know some of the wingers were saying that the guys would pump to the end and as soon as they crossed the booth, they would stop and sit down and be right in away. And we're coming in and we're like, oh shucks, you guys gotta move. And then not a clear path to, to come in. Cause that channel was fairly small. Yeah. The width of it wasn't too wide at all. Yeah. So when you sit down right at the finish line, you're blocking the entrance of the channel, basically. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. And if, especially if you had a wing or something, oh man. Yeah. No, you're right. And then so Harold was obviously didn't want to go inside the surf with his dingy, but he stayed outside by that orange buoy and kept filming until he said until his phone died. Good footage of everyone going in there. Coming true. Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely pretty hectic. And like you can see that there's, it's hard to see where the, even where the finish line is. You can see that orange buoy, which is good that they put that out. But that's me falling right there. Oh, that was you? That's me flipping the wing back over and getting back up right there. Okay. So I fell right before the, and I thought that was it, but I managed to get back up fairly quick. Yeah and I think there was like, I think there was three standup foils that came in front ahead of you, right? Yeah. There was a couple sitting in the finish line channel and yeah, it was definitely tight. Yeah. And there was hard, there was no good escape either. You went in and you had to, if you wanted to go back out, you had to go back out the same small way you went in. And it was hard cause everyone else was coming in. So you just had to Eddie, Eddie passed me once we were in, he passed me and went right to the beach on foil. Went over the shallow reef. I was like, oh, that's a great idea. So I just followed Eddie once I got back up on to the beach. Oh, okay. I ended up, oh I think I ended up just going back out and heading up to Diamondhead, cuz that's where we parked our cars. Yeah. Here's Eli coming in and I think. Yeah, so I guess Derek I'm still on the inside. I was getting worked by the waves. I couldn't really get up back up on foil cuz the waves kept pushing me in and the reef was shallow, so I had to go out drifting around the reef and then it took me probably five minutes to get to the finish line, which I was so bummed out. Yeah. That was super unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he was, yeah, the whole way he was up there and then you went in Yeah. And then I guess you came in yeah. You can't see Derek, but you came in, you went back out and then came in and finished second, right. Derrick? Yes. And then you could just Josh was the son that turquoise wing and I was just drifting in and he came in before I did. And then I came in and then next was Nani. I think This is Nani. Yeah. Nani was the first female finisher, so she was she also won the blue water race last year. She's really fast, so I wouldn't be surprised if she's She's one of the top contenders for the races moloka and moloka Ma Moloka and Moloka. Tohu, I think were the females. Yeah. And then I'm not sure who this was. Do you know? No. Set, maybe. Anyway. Oh, go ahead. Yeah, so the, this finish was definitely a little bit challenging for me especially. I think this was, is this Eddie with the PPC Wing? Yeah. He's got a ppc. Yeah, might have been. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I know the first, the couple days that we went be prior to it was like you coming in and it was. Pretty much flat, no waves at all. Yeah. And we would be flying in and going okay, there's a reef. There's a reef. Okay, I can come in here. Okay, I can get as close as I can and, cut this corner here and whatnot. The day of the race, as you can see with all that white water there, it was, there's no even if you was to cut it or go wide or go whatevers, you couldn't see the reef, before, before days before. You look at the, whitewater and you go, okay, I know Reef is there. Saturday, man, there was white water everywhere. It was pretty much had closed all sets from Diamond Head all the way to what is that? Suicides or Kaimana Beach or something. Yeah. And then there's like breaking white water right behind you. So you're like, who don't, I don't wanna fall, don't breathe, don't preach. And it's like the last thing you looking for is where's the finish line? It's just just make it in through the surf, right? Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. Once you made that turn, you were committed. And if you, a lot of people missed the channel, passed it on the town side, and yeah. You couldn't turn around That was it. Like they, I don't think anyone tried to really turn around cause they couldn't. Yeah. By the time they realized Brad, I think I tried. Yeah. I think on the list, if you look at the official listing, there's a lot of people that had d n s did not. I don't know what it was, start or finish, but Jeff didn't clock anybody that didn't come in front of the buoy and in front of the jet ski. So all the guys who passed him and went over the reef. And had to walk, on the sand and whatnot. He didn't, he just didn't have time to look around and clock him. So pretty much everybody finished, like they did the whole course. They came in, nobody had to be rescued. But if you didn't go in front of the jet ski, the official one, then you did not get a official okay you finished the race. Yeah, I noticed that too. Only about half of the participants had a time next, next to their name, right? Yes. Like on both the wing foiling and the standup foiling. But yeah. In terms of total racers, I think this might be a record. A number of racers here at the Voyager race Voyager wet Feet race, they had over a hundred people signed up for the race. Oh, nice. Pretty impressive. How many people were at the starting line now. It was cool seeing, yes. Yeah, it was cool seeing everybody out there. Yeah. Yeah. I did notice I don't know if you guys knew other people, but I did notice people from Maui, Kauai, Oahu, and I did hear somebody came from the mainland that was just in town and they're like, yeah I'll participate. But I'm not sure if any international travelers have ever here. Not sure. I wouldn't be surprised if people come to this race in the future cuz it's it was, yeah, it was definitely a cool event for sure. Yeah. Good conditions. Good. Heck hectic, beginning, hectic end, but great downwind conditions. Yeah, for sure. What is do you think that there could be a different format or scenario for. Like for the finish or just overall champion or would it be just fine that one and done kind of deal? I don't know. What do you think? I, the, I guess the finish was part of the challenge of this race, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. No, I just was thinking like out of the box if they do it again. Like different classes, everybody go. Yeah, definitely different classes cuz you want to include everyone. You don't want the guys to pay, their entry fee and then they come in 10, but that's their personal goal when they get it and you don't, you just want to like, yeah, you did great or whatevers. But I always thinking the first crew goal, the first, everybody go one time and then from there, the top 10 people that cross you take them up and say, okay, now we're gonna do another run. And then you eliminate that, then this way, you know what wing works for you. You know where the finish line is, you know where this is. So you can do a elimination thing and if even if you wanted to, you could go from the top 10 people take, okay? The last round, which is gonna be a finals, will be the top five or four or three. And then from there you'll be like, okay, whoever win this, come in. And then by that time, If everybody's still interested, they're gonna be on the beach with cameras and watching and like they're gonna fully focus on this last crew of five people coming in, which, which could be really interesting, yeah. If you get dedicated shuttle drivers, it could all happen pretty quick, I think too. That's a great idea. Just cause it's a 25 minute run, so Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Cause how long it took for us to get our gear together, pump up, screw everything, do this, drive up, drive back, and then we was on the water like shock so quick. Yeah. But yeah, that would be, yeah, that's an interesting concept for sure. Yeah. Yeah, because like this one, if you known, if we known it, it might have been a different result. And then we could also choose, okay, we can change the different foil, we can get a bigger hand wing follow this guy. Go way outside, go way inside. It could, you could have varies, but you could also just had that little elimination kind of deal. Yeah, I know right now we're just in the infant stages of it, this is the way that you could would show great competition kind of deal. Yeah. It's almost like the prone, the pros I think just kept doing runs and runs and they could have changed gear and did whatever they wanted between runs and the airport so he could get his plate. Yeah, something like that. But like a little bit of an elimination too. Yeah. Cuz that's the prone, the prones were un right? Like you said they could just go from 1230 to four and doing as fast as they can. The wind, if the wind changes, the flow change or whatever, and, it's you're fastest timing. That's it. Now you're the champ, but. Yeah. You can do multiple runs and do whatever whatever it takes out. And I think that's a cool idea. So this was after the race you got you guys went to to go ride some waves, huh? Oh, yes, for sure. Yeah, that definitely was like after the race, it like, Okay. What now? There's waves, there's wind, we gotta go. So we, we packed up a few people. We just went down to by the airport and we just rode some waves. Yeah, I was too beat. I, like when I came in at Diamond, I, it hit the reef with my new foil and I was like so bummed out. But the finish and then banging my foil, I was like, okay, I'm gonna go home. Yeah, we saw that. We inspected your foil that was up there. Oh man. Yeah, that was, that's a rough one. Yeah. Yeah. But then I was, I came out with you guys the next day and surfed a spot and that was super fun. Big waves. Clean waves and strong wind. It was a nice combination right there. Yes. Yeah. And it was stress free, no. Gotta, we can just take your time coming out. Let the wave come to you, surf it, blast and Alex from Maui was in town too. He came for the race. So he was able to surf some of our south shore spots. Yeah. Your sponsor, foil sponsor, right? Yeah. Yeah. And he was pretty stoked that, that the team, like he was still on the camaraderie of all the different four and everybody else, but also the, how, the, how well the team did. So that was good too. Show for sure. Cause I think the Gofoil team got like the, it was Brian, Derek, and then Eli top three spots you got right. All on go foils. Yes. Yeah. Congrats Brian. Brian carried the team for us. Brian got lucky. Yeah. Yeah. Lucky Brian got very lucky. You got it. Yeah. But that was awesome. Not just luck. Yeah. So follow the right path. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk this spot right there. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the races coming up. So we I'm super excited about Maui in a couple weeks. Derek, you wanna talk a little bit about what we're planning to do? Yeah, so they got the moca coming up, which is a race from Maui, Fleming Beach to. AKA Kai, I believe, AKA Molokai. And that's another channel crossing between the islands. I believe it's 27 miles. So we're a bunch of, there's a bunch of people that's gonna do that race on wings, on standup boards, race boards, canoes, then whatnot. But our plan is to go up on Thursday, do a couple Mako runs on Friday, do the race crossover. Hang out on Molokai on Friday and then Saturday there's another Kamala Run, which is a 10 mile run, and we're gonna participate in that too. Yeah. And then on the day after that race, we were planning to just wing back from Molokai back to Oahu. Yes. And we got like an escort boat to go with us as well, with our group. Yeah. Sunday, maybe two depending on Yeah I guess two escort boats on that Sunday. So yeah I'm super excited about that, that basically we were just gonna fly to Mali and then Wing back to, yeah, wing back from Maui to Molokai to Oahu. Pretty exciting. Yeah. And then, yeah, maybe we can meet up with some of the Maui crew on that Thursday before the race and just do some winging or foiling, right? Yeah. Yeah. So we got what, 27 miles in the length of moca and then another 32 miles to Oahu. So it's gonna be a pretty long trip, but. The good part. There's Harold. That's Harold right there. Harold's the guy in the dingy. Yeah. Yeah. He is the dingy. Yeah. But the good part is the last stretch, which is the longest. We're gonna just be cruising to get back home. We're, we won't be like pushing the limits. We're just going go as fast as the slowest person yeah. Yeah, we can relax, yeah, and that was really fun too when we did that. White planes run that. We also made a video about that. It was cool to be able to just take our time and but also, and it's not that you can't go fast, it's just that you can still go fast. You just turn around and then if you're ahead of people, you just wait. And yes, if you get way behind, then you try to go a little bit faster, right? Catch up. Yeah. So catch up or slow down, go upwind a little bit, whatever, so circle around. Yeah. Yeah. Not that hard to stick together as a group. No. With the wings for sure. Yeah, definitely. We can all share, if we had a stop board, then it would be unless you're one of the wonder ones that can pump up wind, then yeah. It'll be hard to stay together. But It'll be good too. Cause after Sunday, once we get back, we'll watch the boat and whatnot. Then we can probably take a few days off. I don't know about you Rob, but because we have a, we have the next crossing the Molokai to Oahu coming up right after. I, in two weeks after. Two weeks after that. Yeah. Yeah. So then that's really the biggest race of the year probably for foiling. The moca race is the. The big one. Yeah. So yeah, I definitely wanna be ready for that. Yeah. Yeah. Rest up for that. And then hopefully next year we'll have a race in Alaska that we can do, and Brian will coordinate that, right? Yeah. Foil group one guy. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Yeah, no, I'll hopefully get back here for that next year. Come for a visit. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. We can get the, we can do a team stuff too, if God will just, try to save up on, on the cost of the boat and whatnot, whatnot. But can definitely do teams or however do make it work. Maybe you can do a crossing from Hawaii to Alaska or the other way around Alaska to Hawaii. Yeah. Straight down, right? Oh, man. Definitely. At least we know some Coast Guard guys, yeah. If we have to have a escort yeah. Right there. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Any last words actually, do you wanna mention anything about safety being from with the Coast Guard, Brian? Oh. Nothing that's not already been mentioned already by you and Derek before the white planes run. You covered, you, you covered everything on the beach before. The white planes run between just always have, the biggest things just have a way to signal people carry the radio, a phone something. So when everything goes wrong, you can get in touch with somebody. For multiple reasons, but yeah, pH phones are huge. It's get a waterproof bag. We always all carry phones in our, however, and carry a phone. Nine one one works fantastic. Yeah, a good backup would be vhf. But for, at least for this area, everything's within a couple miles of the beach. Phones always pretty much always have reception here. Yeah, for the channel races, it's probably better to rely on a V HF radio or e or something like that. Or something satellite E vhf or, yeah. They, like when I go to Alaska the Garmin's got the satellite texting device. I forgot what it's called, but that's what's gonna be in my pocket cause there's no cell service up there and, yeah. Go. I forgot what it's called, but they work fantastic. I know which one you talking about. Yeah. Yeah, like a small handheld gps. Yeah. Yeah. Holy smokes. There's a lot of change coming from here, huh? Oh, who me? Yeah. Oh yeah. It's yeah, it's gonna be interesting. I don't know what's gonna go in like my pack, but. It's gonna be a lot more, you'll be wearing a thick wetsuit and booties and gloves and the hood. Yeah. Five mil boots. Not gonna be able to feel the board. Cause the seven mil of rubber between my heel and the board and the fitting, my hand in the wing loop is gonna be another. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see how that works. And then yeah, I think just the, like the mitigating the safety risk. Because there's no, there's very little rescue assets out there. Like there are, there's tons here. And it's, you have exposure problems out there. You don't have that, yeah. You don't last that long if something goes wrong. Yeah. Yeah. No, here you can, you can last a long time out there and just put it in first gear and paddle and, but you can't really do that out there. Come up, see what we got and come up with a plan and try and maybe convince people to foil out there that's not, yeah, no, that would be a great, be who wants to go, Phil? Yeah. So if anyone's watching here on YouTube from Alaska, that is anywhere close to Brian, maybe reach out. Yeah. What is your Brian, what is your Instagram Brian Trick? I think Brian, t r i c, like a underscore in between or something? Or just Brian, t r i c. One minute I don't look. Yeah, you look at yourself. And what about you, Derek? Where, how can people find you online? Oh, just on Instagram at Derek comma no spaces. D e r e k h a m a. Okay. I just wanted to say too, Derek recently won the subs surfing US championships, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. For that and you massive stand paddle anymore, so that's pretty, pretty impressive that you still got it, yeah. Yeah. Just gotta go. You just got two moves and it can just, just go keep to the two moves, don't get fancy. And then, the rest will just take care of itself. Yeah. I guess your cutbacks, you still do on this foil too, right? It's the same move almost. Oh yeah. Similar. Yeah. Apply the same surfing back. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I've been trying to do in a ways, is try to apply. The same surfing maneuvers, bottom turn, top turns, hit the whitewater full on roundhouse and with the wings and foils, which I know is doable. It's just so tricky because you get the chance of cavitation or just breaching and whatnot. But yeah, I think if you just trust yourself and push the fo the foil you. Should be able to make those kind of maneuvers. I've seen you do it, so I know you can. Oh yeah. Thanks. Thanks. Alright. What is Brian? Brian, what is your quick one? What was your Instagram Brian so that they you up? It's Brian trick with underscore after the C of the last letter, okay. Okay. That's perfect. Brian Underscore. Do you know if there's any a community, foiling community or any kind of gear for sale up on in Sitka? So right now I saw one Foil for sale on Facebook a couple months ago. I haven't seen it lately. So that might be it. FOILING community might the one, foiling community might be gone, but, oh yeah. No, I. Jack has a friend who left said, who did wing foil when he was up there. So I gotta get in contact with him just to get some info about the area so I don't start from scratch. Ok. With conditions and everything and just conditions and zones and safety and see, just pick his brain. But he said he was the only one there doing it, so Yeah. Oh, nice. It'll be fun. Nice. And you have some gear too, like if somebody does want to join you, you'd be able to. Bring them along. At least I have plenty of extra stuff. Yeah. Oh, okay. Hit 'em up, hit Brian out. Probably sell some to be alone. Yeah, plenty of extra gear. Yeah. Okay. Nice. Awesome. All right, guys. Any last words? No thanks. Just get out there, get on the water. Yeah. Thank you. All right I'm gonna wrap this up and put it on YouTube so people can watch it tomorrow. Awesome. Yeah, thanks for joining me. All right. Congratulations, Brian, once again. Keep in touch, man. We'll get out there and try to get stationed back to Hawaii so we can, again. There you go. Absolutely. All right, take care guys. Thanks for joining me. Have a good night. Aloha all.

Asian-American students are being used as the face of attempts to eliminate affirmative action or race-consciousness in college admissions. The post Jeff Chang & Jeannie Park on Asian Americans and Affirmative Action appeared first on FAIR.

We're going back to 1983 with the release of the kung-fu film "Shaolin and Wu Tang" and its influence on the iconic New York hip-hop collective, Wu-Tang Clan.  KEXP's Janice Headley leads a roundtable discussion with content producer Martin Douglas, DJs Gabriel Teodros, Mike Ramos, and Larry Mizell Jr., as well as two special guests: Jeff Chang, author of the award-winning book “Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation”; and Sophia Chang (no relation), widely regarded as the “first Asian woman in hip-hop" and author of the memoir “The Baddest Bitch in the Room.”  Written and produced by Janice Headley. Mixed and mastered by Roddy Nikpour.  Support the podcast: kexp.org/50hiphop See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this KEEN ON episode, Andrew talks to FREEDOM MOVES co-editor H. Samy Alim about Hip Hop knowledges, pedagogies and futures H. Samy Alim is the David O. Sears Presidential Endowed Chair in the Social Sciences and Professor of Anthropology at UCLA. He also serves as the Associate Director of the Ralph J. Bunche Center for African American Studies, where he is Faculty Director of the UCLA Hip Hop Initiative with Tabia Shawel and Samuel Lamontagne, and editor, with Jeff Chang, of the University of California Press Hip Hop Studies Book Series. Alim has been researching and writing about Hip Hop Culture for over 25 years. His most recent book, Freedom Moves: Hip Hop Knowledges, Pedagogies, and Futures (2023, with Jeff Chang and Casey Wong) travels across generations and beyond borders to understand hip hop's transformative power as one of the most important cultural movements of our times. Alim is author or editor of twelve books and has written extensively about Black Language and Hip Hop Culture globally—across the U.S., Spain, and South Africa—in his books, including Street Conscious Rap (1999, with James G. Spady and Charles G. Lee), Roc the Mic Right: The Language of Hip Hop Culture (2006), Tha Global Cipha: Hip Hop Culture and Consciousness (2006, with James G. Spady and Samir Meghelli), Talkin Black Talk (2007, with John Baugh), Global Linguistic Flows: Hip Hop Cultures, Youth Identities, and the Politics of Language (2009, with Award Ibrahim and Alastair Pennycook) and Culturally Sustaining Pedagogies: Teaching and Learning for Justice in a Changing World (2017, with Django Paris). Name as one of the "100 most connected men" by GQ magazine, Andrew Keen is amongst the world's best known broadcasters and commentators. In addition to presenting KEEN ON, he is the host of the long-running How To Fix Democracy show. He is also the author of four prescient books about digital technology: CULT OF THE AMATEUR, DIGITAL VERTIGO, THE INTERNET IS NOT THE ANSWER and HOW TO FIX THE FUTURE. Andrew lives in San Francisco, is married to Cassandra Knight, Google's VP of Litigation & Discovery, and has two grown children. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week – Jeff Chang talks to Nikole Hannah-Jones, one of today's foremost investigative journalists.  Her reporting on civil rights and racial justice, including school segregation, has earned her numerous awards, chief among them a Pulitzer Prize for her work on the 1619 Project.  It's an ongoing initiative from the New York Times that reframes the way we understand America's history by examining the modern legacy of slavery and the contributions of Black Americans.  This month, an adaptation for video premieres on Hulu. On November 29, 2021, Nikole Hannah-Jones came to San Francisco to celebrate the release of the book version of the 1619 Project.  Joining her was one of the book's contributors, Barry Jenkins, the Academy-Award-winning director of Moonlight, and most recently, a television adaptation of Colson Whitehead's “The Underground Railroad”.  But before the two sat down to talk to Jeff Chang, Forrest Hamer read his poem “Race Riot”.

Jason Tangalin and Pono Matthews and the Foil Fever Ohana organized the Foilers of Aloha Classic foil contest on Kauai, held on Nov. 26th, 2022. The event was blessed with great conditions, a stoked community of foilers and next level performance in the waves. This interview contains drone footage of the contest, the second half also has footage documenting our 3 day trip with the crew from Oahu, we scored good wing foiling conditions on the Friday before the event. If you can, watch it at high resolution on a big screen, enjoy! Watch the foil surf contest highlights video here: https://youtu.be/BUQSkESvnjg We hope you liked the video, please give it a thumbs up and subscribe to the blueplanetsurf YouTube channel, we post a new video every Saturday morning, Aloha! Please come visit one of our shops on Oahu: Hale'iwa shop and rental location: Blue Planet Hale'iwa 62-620F Kamehameha Highway Haleiwa, Hawaii 96712 Tel (808) 888 0786 Open daily, 9 am to 5 pm http://www.blueplanetadventure.com Honolulu store- - Hawaii's SUP and Foil HQ: Blue Planet Surf 1221 Kona St Honolulu, Hi 96814 Tel (808) 596 7755 open 10 am to 5 pm Hawaii Time, closed Wednesdays and Sundays http://www.blueplanetsurf.com Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bpsurf/ Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/blueplanetsurf Find Paradise Aloha! Transcript: Aloha friends, it's Robert Stehlik. Welcome to another episode of the Blue Planet Show. I know it's been a while since I posted the last show, but today's show is awesome. You don't wanna miss it if you love foiling. And I also have two more interviews scheduled. I'm really excited about those. One is with Mike's lab, Mike and Stefano, they make some of the fastest foils available. I just got one after waiting for many months for it, and I'm excited to try it and talk about it on that show. And then also I have an interview scheduled with Ken Winter, who I've been get trying to get for a very long time. He's a former windsurfing world champion and the designer of the wings at Duo Tone. So I'm really excited to talk to him about wing design and so on. So stay tuned for those two episodes. And today's show is all about the Foil Fever Ohana, Jason Tangalin and Pono Matthews, the organizers of the Foyers of Aloha Classic event, which was held last weekend at Kalapaki Beach, which had some of the most amazing performance and conditions in any foil contest to date. So you don't wanna miss it. And if you have a high speed internet connection, You are gonna want to watch it at full resolution on a big screen cuz the footage is amazing. But of course you can also listen to it as a podcast on your favorite podcast app. During the interview, I only played the footage from the contest, which is of the first half of the interview. And then we just kept talking story for a long time. So I also included footage from our first day on Kauai, where we had two really good wing foil sessions, some really good footage from of wing foiling on Kauai in the second half. And then also the day after the contest, some surf foiling mark Surf foiling at Kak Beach. So I really hope you enjoy this episode of the Foyers of Aloha Classic. And without further ado, please welcome Jason and Pono from the Foil Fever Ohana. Welcome Jason and Pono to the Blue Planet Show. Thanks so much for being my guest today. Yeah, no problem. Right on. So yeah, I just got back last weekend you guys had that awesome contest at KAK Beach and the conditions were amazing. I was just telling Jason, I think it was, probably the best foil contest yet, in terms of the performance to a whole nother level and then the conditions and everything. Just an amazing event. And yeah, congratulations on putting together this awesome. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah. And then also, just the whole community that you put together, all the people that are involved in it and the, the party afterwards with food and everything. And it was, it is just a, it was just a great experience for everybody. And myself and a few others from Oahu we went over there to actually to do the, do wind race. And then unfortunately that the wind just died. Like we had super strong wind the whole week before, and then the week of the contest had just died off. Yeah. God, that's God telling us. Okay. One day's good enough for you, . Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, talk a little bit maybe about all the work that's involved in putting together contest like this. It starts with the big thing is trying to get the permits and we can't really do anything put anything out on social media to receives the authorization from Koi for us to get to put on a contest. But this year we tried to put out a little bit more social media than usual. We knew it was gonna come to be a lot of hard work cause of the first year we did it, it was a lot of hard work. But I don't know. It worked out making the shirts, getting all the sponsors. Initially on our first contest, we made it work. So Koi was the host. We made it where 60% of the competitors was from Koi, their hometown. And then 40% is spread it all over the state in California and Texas to give the local boys their an opportunity to join. And there was a lot of 'em that did the first contest that wanted, they wanted to just watch on this one. So it allowed me to invite a lot more from the state, which was good. And I try to, we try to invite invite the best of the best, and from the first contest to now, three years later the progression has gone on a whole nother level that we never thought it would ever be, because on our first one we're like, oh, I can't wait for next year. Yeah. I was like, but three years later it's a whole new world, that's for sure. Yeah. So the first one the first inaugural event was in 2019. And then basically, Whole pandemic came in the way. And then, so you this is really the second contest you guys are holding and Yeah, like you said the whole yeah, the performance just went through the roof, it seemed it just yeah, it's like crazy how exciting it was to watch the whole thing. Yeah. But, okay and I have a whole bunch of video. I posted that video with the highlights and then I made a longer video for this interview that we, we can show it and talk about it, but we still want to make it fun to listen to as a podcast as well. But I'm gonna actually just start screen sharing while we're talking. So that way welcome to comment on the video or just talk about the, your, whatever we're talking about. But I'm just gonna play this in the background. So this was the contest events item I'm just gonna play versus that video of the highlights. And can you guys see the video? Okay? Yes, you can. That's JD Irons. Okay. . So yeah, just actually let's talk a little bit about the conditions, cuz it, like the day before and the day after, it was just normal small waves and then this day was just yeah. Let's talk about that a little bit. Yeah, for sure. The day before we were all there doing the, we had the beach. On Friday. So we saw some other guys out there practicing and we were like, oh, there's some waves. It's like normal cak waves kinda slow. Me and my uncle and some of the other guys were talking and we were we hope there's waves tomorrow. Cause we weren't too sure. Like we never anticipated this swell to hit. Some of us were talking about it like, oh, okay, there's a big north swell and we know kak will get it if we have that trade winds also. And then Friday, I think we're talking about how the the soil is actually gonna switch directions for more northeast well, so we're like, oh, okay, we're definitely gonna have waves. But the trippy part about, its when we got there at 30 in the morning, I believe to set up the canoe club and then all we see is just water, covering water and boulder's big, huge rocks just covering up the road and we can hear the waves breaking over the brick wall. And we're like, we look at each other and we're like, oh my goodness, it's bombing it. It's gotta be really good. So that , I think that was the most exciting part, was just seeing that sunrise come over the mountain and just seeing the sets just rolling. And it was just definitely un unbelievable for all of us. I think we never anticipated it. It all worked out in the end, swallow all day long. Good waves. Yeah, and kak too. It's like the whole place is a little bit almost like an am amphitheater where like everyone's sitting around watching and and just the crowd, the, like the whole, the audio from the crowd. I wish I had recorded that to put with the video cuz it was just like cool to , hear all the comments and the cheers and whatever, it was just, yeah, it was just an experience to, to everyone was super excited about, the whole contest and watching every ride and like cheering everyone on. So that was definitely a good part of it. And a lot lot of good white pods, like this one . Yeah. That was me. Yeah. Yeah. That was, yeah, that was a good one. So a lot of, there was like a lot of kinda sick double ups Yeah. Where the thing just like would drop out from underneath you, it seemed right? Yeah. That's from the lower tide. Huh? So it's crazy because the last time we had a swell, like this was hurricane in Wow. It was never this big, and we didn't anticipate how glassy it would. Because the first contest, it was as big as this, but it wasn't glassy. It was really windy, very stormy. So all the really good guys got it was very hard for them. And that's why the guys, they're so used to it. They got really, they did really good on that one home advantage if, you know that wave, right? Yeah. It gets a, it gets tricky out there. Especially with this kind of swell too. And on that low tide, it was super shallow out there. Like some of these sets when we had to duck dive, we're duck diving on dry reef. So we would get stuck on the reef trying to duck dive and just get smashed. Yeah. Oh my God. I think Kane actually did a a bottom turn and he hit reef Wow. On one of his waves. Yeah. So it was shallow, like no one knew it was that shallow on the inside. Yeah. On this video I put in as much as I could at trying to get everybody's rides on there. Like even, some of the not so perfect rides and all the wipe outs and stuff like that. Just so you can see a little bit how it definitely was a pretty challenging, the conditions were pretty challenging. There's a lot of a lot of wipe outs, a lot. The takeoff was tricky cuz you couldn't take off too far inside, cuz then it backed off and then, but yet, so you had to be in just the right place to take off. But yeah, maybe talk a little bit about the conditions and challenges. So on the high tide it's a little bit easier to take off at. We call this shoulders, it's called. And so in the beginning of the heat or the beginning of the contest, a lot of guys was taking off on the outside. But when that low tide came in, a lot of guys like Jack was smart. He would stay way inside, do a chip shot, and then go out and catch that one big wave. Because that's the one that everyone was looking at from the start, taking out that big bottom turn. Pono and I think JD was in the, on the outside, local guys was on the outside trying to paddle into it, which, it helped them. But then like I know one of the wave. The wave that the, was, that 3 43 wave dropped the wipe out . But then what they didn't see was your drop into that wave, that drop into that wave was heavy. So for him to take that drop and you can't really, yeah, the floors are seeing it from the judge's point, but they're not really, for some reason, they weren't looking at those type of critical drop-ins. They were waiting for the second wave on seeing what, because it's oh, okay, that's gonna see what he got. And those three for three was probably the best three wins I've ever seen. Whole time. That was literally one after another . Yeah. Yeah, it was amazing. But yeah, if you seen Ponos drop, cause like I said, Pono and JD Irons was hanging on the outside trying to take out yeah, that was more my mentality. Cause this is a spot I always foil, so I look for those steeper takeoffs, those more critical sections on the, those takeoffs. Cause if you stick those takeoffs, it's a lot harder to do compared to a chip in shot. For me, that was my mentality to try to take off as deep as I could. And if I I make it. If I don't try. But yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I think for some reason it's like I, I played the same video  over and over here. Wait, I s's a great thought. Think I the wrong one here. This is be exciting . It's pretty dope. And I was watching it on my phone and I was like, so now I'm watching it on the big screen. I'm like, Ooh, wow. It looks way more heavy. , I gotta plug it through my, to my big tv. Yeah. Yeah. And I actually, I rendered it in high resolution, like for k I think so, so it should be pretty cool to watch on the big screen too. So sorry. I had the was playing the, just the short version. But yeah. So in this one I just tried to put as much footage as I had into it. The different riders and stuff, everybody can check it out. I was trying to turn off the volume. That's what happened. Okay. There go. Okay. So actually the question that people had was about the rules. So let's go over the contest rules what were the rules for proning? What were the rules for stand paddling and so on. Maybe go over that a little bit. On our first contest, I got my cousins together, other people that I was. Helped me start the whole foiling evolution going on. And it was it wasn't easy because as a foreigner, that foiling can go in any direction towards the end. We got into, arguments and this and that  we, we needed to just stick with one point. But our idea was to, whatever we do in the contest is what we as a fo fever guys like to see in the real world means of safety wise. So leash required our big thing is not coming in within 20 feet of another person as the other guy, as the other person drops in. And then obviously no dropping in and stuff like that. But those are the two main parts of it. The stand up and everybody else have the same rules except for the stand ups. They, they could use straps if they wanted to. . Yeah, so I talk a little bit about that. Cause I know it's a little bit controversial that the foot strap thing. So why, what is your reasoning behind not allowing foot straps for the, for prone foiling? The big reason is not a lot of guys foil strap. So it'd be unfair for the straps and the straps go against each other. So it was easier for us to have straps because the guys with straps, they would have to buy a board that has straps or put on straps and it would be a lot easier if we went the other way around. And this contest, in the beginning I had an expression session for straps, but in the long run I wanted, we wanted to make sure that we had everybody surf at least twice. So I took up that straps expression session for that one heat. But that's the main reason. Plus, you gotta look at the score too. If versus one guy with straps versus another guy without straps, the whole scoring would be totally different because if the strap guy is doing just a front side whitewater whack, compared to a guy doing a strapless whitewater wax, same thing. I would rather score the guy without straps higher points than the guy with chefs because it's a lot more critical and it's a lot harder to do without straps. Yeah, agreed. And it's amazing that there is so many aerial maneuvers without straps, that Yeah. Yeah. I dunno who it was, but somebody did a back flip. . Yeah. Back flip, double rail, grab back flip . I saw that. I, oh, so and then Mateo was doing 360 airs. Yeah. And he threw the boosting air. So it's not to say that you cannot do these things, do without straps. It's possible. It nof legal's doing it. Why can't we? But yeah, it's just because of that less money spent on trying to get a board with straps. I wanted to make it even for everyone. Yeah. Oh, ammonias. Yeah. And then this was the wave on the right side of the bay. And I was, there was like some ma beautiful barrels coming through Yeah. On that side too. Yeah. This is my favorite RA in the whole wide world for surfing. We won't say the name, but, yeah. Yeah. Let's keep that a secret . Okay. But yeah, just, the waves were just unreal. And they just kept coming too. It wasn't like, just one set, it was just like, it seemed like just, it just, the waves just kept coming and coming. It was pretty impressive. Yeah. Cause the next day we arrived and it was half the, And there was a lot of laws. And same thing with the first contest. It was literally, it was like just as big as this contest and then the next day went completely flat. So I don't know how, or I don't know, God's giving us some good waves and, and some, I believe that the locals are like they should know that every time they know that we have a contest they should know that had waves. So  guaranteed huge waves, right? ? Yeah, I think it's like an overall, everyone, we did the beach cleanup. The camaraderie inside and outside the water, all the support that we've had. All the hard work we put into this, people flying from all over, supporting this contest, supporting the cause for, the maana women in need. I think overall, I think that is what helped us have these kind of waves. To me it, because the day before and the day after was totally different compared to our contest. So I truly believe that it was in all together everybody coming together as a whole for this contest. Made it happen. Yeah, definitely. The good energy brought nature brought it to together definitely. And nobody knows about Thursday Pono and I went out when it was going like 30, 40 miles an hour. Winds we're winging and we paid the price for that one. We were the only two guys out at Calak and we didn't have the right equipment and it was blowing so hard that we couldn't make it back. So we ended up in, we ended up in the harbor, holy back. And I felt so bad. But then I turned around 10 minutes later and I seen pono behind me is okay, good. I don't feel, I don't feel like a retard now. . So what the wind direction, is it kinda offshore there or or which what's the wind direction when it's Tradewinds? Yeah, it's basically straight offshore. But what's a good about Calak is it tells you where the swell is on the island, except for that northwest or a straight west swell. Cause it'll this, when the big salt swell it'll still break, break like this except for that surf on the right hand side. So it'll tell you this bay will tell you where the salt side has. Or the east side waves or the Northeast will have waves. This is a totally indication of the whole island, basically. It's pretty cool. Yeah. I mean it's amazing cuz it seems like a fairly small entrance into the, into that bay for it to catch so many swell directions, and it's same direction that 40 degree direction that Kahan Bay has. Ka Yeah. Which is like a every time. So every time I'm surfing, I'm foing at Kahan Bay. I already know that Kak Bay is going on all Cause we would call each other. We would call each other and be like, what? Kak? Yep. Kak Gateway. What? Kohan? Yep. . . Yep. That's pretty cool. Okay okay, so let's go back to the to the rules cuz actually Derek had some questions about that and stuff too. Like in, in terms of the the scoring criteria, like what were the judges looking for? To, for the points and stuff? Wello I'm sorry, the Danny. Yeah, I know. It's so distraction. It's unreal. Sorry, watching the video. Yeah. points wise was wanted to make it like the surfing, speed, power flow as surfing. I don't see us as, a little bit, we're not a considered ourselves the way we surf the same way or foil the same way we surf. Years, few years ago no one was doing it and then we started to do it years ago and like, why can't we surf it foiled it like a surf surfboard. And I wanted to make sure that the progression goes towards that end. And on the judging scale standing critical traditions the type of waves Jack won the prone for many different reasons, but he is also caught one of the biggest waves of the day. And then so on a foil, the speed is there. So we have no comparison to two surfing. But yeah, we just want to judge it the same way we do surfing style. Ok. Kinda stay more in that critical section in that pocket. And instead of just staying away from all the white water and all that, we wanna see, be able to come back, cut back and hit it if possible. On this day it was, you'd be on a whole nother level if you're cracking it. White water snapped off the top on a bomb set, in front of me too. And he landed it, that's the type of stuff. It's just unreal, but didn't do it in the finals. But yeah, those are the type of stuff that you'll, you rarely see on a foil. And it is good this year, and that's where the progression we thought would be three years ago. And looking at it now, it's, we never thought would well hit white water or doing the airs, Arizona, the foil, but these guys are doing it on pretty big waves now and going for the barrel too. That was going for the barrel. Yeah. . Yeah. Yeah. And, but the crazy thing is these guys going for the barrel that they know is gonna close out like pono and two waves in a row, he knows it's gonna close out, but he the adrenaline of the competition and he can, he, I ask him like, when you came out, did you hear the crowd? And he was like, dude, you can totally hear the crowd. I was like, . Oh. Cause you rob, you were out there and oh my gosh. The crowd was just so pumped. It was unreal. Oh yeah. It was a great, I couldn't hear the crowd. It was like a, almost like a live concert or something like that is what it felt like. A little way I could hear, I, it's like reaction more than I could hear you announcing . Oh really? I, how loud it was. Yeah, because I was speechless. That's why , yeah. I mean there was that one where you just like pointed, maybe talk about that one wave where you just like flying down the line. There was backside grabbing the rail and then just so fast that you just couldn't keep the foil in the water. Oh was, that was j. That was jd. Jd, sorry. JD Irons and that wave Ash won him the white ball. Hopeful the wipe out of the day. Cause everybody was getting wipe outs, but the amount of speed that he was getting on that wave and was a big set, we had to give him that. Cause it was just, I felt my eardrums pop when heed. And that was backside too. That's even more crazy. Yeah. More scary. Riley. Yeah, I that's the speed that he was flying on the reve and then just coming to a complete stop. Just what? Hitting the water. Full speed. yeah's. It's not a fun, it doesn't good, but it good to the crowd. . Yeah. You get his ways so good. Okay. Right on. Yeah. So and then originally you had planned for the Sunday to do like a down wind race, right? So where would that have been? Like what was the plan course, if there was wind and yeah. What was the plan for the down race? Cuz Yeah, that was so pri primarily we wanted Caia to end it at the Jeti right here in Coate Bay. Okay. It's about a, I don't know, maybe a 10, 12 mile stretch straight northeast. And it was looking good, but that wind started to come early Thursday, Friday, which thank God, because Saturday would've been my, my God. It would've been so heavy on if the winds came out on Saturday it would be like outta control, but would've been a whole different scene. Yeah. All the boys, you know that no whole new thing is the winging and everyone is really, actually excited about that. But yeah. Bummer that we had to not hold it but it was a good time next time, I guess on Saturday. Yeah. Yeah. I thought this kid, Mateo was a real standout as well cuz he was doing both the standup division and the prone division. Yeah. Yep. And this is his second time doing that. Yeah, same thing. Back in 2019, he won first Inop and second in pro. Yeah. And then it's pretty amazing cuz he went like from, and there was like no break between the heats too. So he went like from the pro standup final straight switchboards and straight into the prone final. Yeah. . And, it happens that way. That's the consequences of trying to enter so much divisions. You're gonna have those moments where you go back to back. But it is not even 20. I don't believe. So I, his energy level is on a, on another level. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. If that was me, I would've been like, oh no, thanks. I'm good. . Yeah. Take. Yeah. What was I gonna ask? Yeah. Oh yeah. The different divisions and the results. Are the, have final results posted somewhere? Sort of. I, did, I post everything but the pro cause we lost the results. . Okay. And I'm still searching for it. I know someone took a picture of it, but yeah, I know. I don't even have the results in front of me. Is it double? No worries. But yeah, I, some maybe I can put, maybe you can send me the results later or whatever I can post on this video as well. But people were asking like, what are the, cause you only announced three finishes or whatever. Alright. But and then yeah, they were asked, people were asking, what about making a two day event? Also the judging like is it's on the side of the bay, almost facing away from the break. Like the, cuz the break, the wave breaks away from the judge's stand. They were saying, is that the best location? Wouldn't it be better to have it judging from straight on or from the other side of the bay? What's your take on that? We got those houses right there on the cliff that we could rent. That's an option. Or maybe to get a room at the Marriott. But it was so much easier accessible for us to do it at the Canoe Club. And people's gotta realize that most of this money's coming out of Pono and i's pocket. So for us to even rent the room at the Marriott, it's probably impossible. . Yeah. I then plus, and then plus if we was to set up like on the beach or something, you would've to think about whole scaffolding, scaffolding on the beach and then getting permits to do that on the beach. It's a lot of things that we would have to think about in order to try to do that. Especially on this day, we weren't expecting for it to have this much barrels to actually hold up nice and clean. A lot of them you were, if you were on it and you went for the barrel, you'd be able to make it up easily. That's good. That's how good and clean it and. With a canoe club. If we didn't have these kind of barrel sections and whatnot, it's a perfect spot to be for the judges to be the top story. And you could actually see everything from there. Yeah. And the judges were upstairs on the second floor too, so you had a pretty good vantage point of the waves from the upstairs. So they they could see, I was up there most of the time and we could see pretty good. only part it was hard was in the morning time when that sun was directly over. We couldn't decisive the color jerseys, but that's it. Especially when they're pumping out. Cause I was up on the top for the first two heats and then guys would be pumping out and then as soon as they turn around to just go straight down, catch a wave, like they get lost in the sun. But as soon as they, as soon as they reach the the break, we could see their jersey colors. . we have to kinda work that out. Be like, Hey, okay, we're not, so we're not judging them on watching them glide into the wave. We're only watching, we're only scoring them on the more critical section when the wave actually breaks. So we have to kind figure that out first thing in the morning. Yeah, that makes sense. We had seven judges, so three judges, three judges, scoring. A head judge and then three spotters. And that's one of the things we learned from the first contest to make sure we have a spotter per judge just to call out. Because, and that's the reason, one of the reasons why we kept the two for one max per ride. Cause otherwise guys like Jack and Mateo would be doing 10 for once and yeah. So actually let's talk about that a little bit. So basically the rule was you can take off on a wave, ride it, and then pump out and get a second wave, but that was it, right? You couldn't get more than two waves in one to for one score, right? Correct. Correct. And the reason for that is cause just to make it more of an even playing field for guys that can't pump like an 18 year old . Yeah, exactly. And then, so on a smaller day you would see like they'll do two for ones. My thought process was like somebody like pono can do so much wa so much turns in on that one wave than they would somebody else is doing two waves. They're doing as much as turns so that it gave everybody that, that chance to score. If that makes sense, but, oh yeah. Yeah. No, I mean I think that rule makes sense. Cuz you don't, yeah. You don't want it to turn just into a pumping contest. Also, then people would probably use bigger foils which don't perform as well on the wave and stuff like that. We're sticking to that whole performance side of Foley. Yeah, I noticed too. On the standup paddle board side, like it seemed like the guys with the really long, the longer boards were got the best scores. Yeah. Because cuz they were able to catch the waves easier and stuff like that. It seemed yeah, I like Dave and Mateo, but that's a big board for Mateo. So board it looked like the do board. Yeah. Cause like guys, Derek looked like he was having a hard time trying to, cause it's so much water moving at that point. Yeah, Derek was on his tiny wing fo board, so it wasn't even to stand paddle board. So yeah, you can double it. Sorry. Him and Nick Ben is always my top two picks, but this day, when it's bigger on a smaller day they would, just tear it up. But because it was so much water moving at that, think that's had a hard time. But the first two places, Nick Bennett the third, but the first two places, Mattel and Daniel. They had bigger boards, so they were catching most of the waves. Yeah. So for prone foiling po talk a little bit about your equipment. What were you using and what would you say would've been like perfect equipment for this day of foil surfing I was riding my Freedom Fusion board. It's like a 4, 5 17, 3 quarters and 28 liters. And then I was writing my fo was access 7 99 front wing with a silly short piece lodge 3 25 progressive tailw wing. A lot of guys were, yeah, a lot of guys were riding that more high aspect kinda wing for that speed. I know a lot of guys was running the lifts. 90, Jack was running, riding the 90. I think we were all planning on riding those smaller wings for just for that speed. And we can carve, but I think the only guy in the prone division that was riding a big wing was Jake. Jake pers Yeah. He rips on the big wings. I think he's the only prone Foiler I, I know of that can rip on a two 10 go foil. Yeah, like a shortboard. And he rips that thing like it's. No other, everybody else was riding those small wings. He was riding a big wing and just ripping on it. That just shows the progression in who you are as a person and what you're capable of. Yeah. And the seven, the 7 99 access, I have that one too for wing filling, but it's a pretty small foil. It has, it doesn't have much drag, but you need to maintain that speed. So it's not that easy to pump. You gotta really keep up the speed, right? Yeah. It definitely needs the speed to keep it going. But once you're in that rhythm, it's all about mainly that rhythm and the technique for your pumping style. , if you can keep that then, you're, you can go for quite a while compared to a, for me I would rather ride a smaller wing than a big wing. In any condition. I even ride over here like one, two foot days. I ride my small wing. Cause I like it super loose, super carv. I can almost ride it like my surf wing as well. That's why. Yeah. And is this more efficient? You have less drag, right? So it's easier to maintain the speed too, because you don't have to work as hard to go faster it seems yeah. Yes. Ooh. And yeah, the two, like what about the holding it over two days? Have you thought about that or I guess the plan was to have one day of surfing and one day of ra down wind racing kind of thing. So we just did it one day. That's how we started it in 2019. And then three months later, we actually had a contest in Maui that we had to cancel three weeks prior cuz of the pandemic. So we had every set up, everything else for Maui, everything was ready to go. That was scheduled for two days. We just kept it down to one day, and then this year we're like, okay let's go ahead and add the the wing race to it. But we're gonna keep the koi one to one day for Calak. . Few reasons. One, I don't wanna take away two days away from the local boys out there. I think one day, one day is long enough, especially on the swell like this. But so COI is always gonna be that one day I call pa and then hopefully the next day is a race. But the Maui if we have an a Maui, it's gonna be at guard rails and those are gonna be two days, two day events. Okay. And then, so yeah, so Maui do you like actually talk a little bit about your plans for the future, because you said that you had something planned in Tennessee next summer, is that right? Yeah, we trying to do a wake foil contest in Tennessee in July on the 14th, 15th, I believe. And I still of wanted to do something in Hawaii in May, whether it's at Kaco or in, or guards on Maui. Okay. So that's the plan. And then back to Koi, the weekend after Thanksgiving. Awesome. Kaka ACO would be cool. That's our backyard, so Yeah, that's, but but for Tennessee, like what, like awake wake foiling contest? How would that work and what would be the criteria and stuff? It's curious. And and that's what we're trying to figure out. So they had an invite maybe about two months ago. Brian grew up then I think it was in Orlando, I believe. And they scored it more like wake style foiling. . So we're gonna try and do that same thing, but have different division. Whether it's strap and strapless, that's gonna be something new to us. We've been doing in the last couple years, doing the whole traveling to the wake side of it. We did a tour last, like a few months ago actually. Just do, went from lake to lake just to see how many people are out there foiling. It's actually unreal the amount of people that's foiling because the, what was it, the surf wake I believe or waking, I should say. Those are starting to go away and now they're starting to foil a lot more. So the competitions right now, it's, especially for the the foil side, it's still fresh and we always wanted to be one of the guys who actually push it out. So we did, did our homework trying to travel around to different, to see what r Wanda talent, and then two, how, what are people doing the bolts they use. I learned, I starting to learn about different type of bolts. The size of the waves how many waves are behind. It's unreal how they do it. So last year we did it at the Wakefest and we got invited to do. Road record. How many boilers behind the wake? I think we only got 16. The, right now the record is 30, 31 or 32, I believe, by the Cohesions. So next year because we were from the 50th state our number is 50. I wanna try to see if I can get 50 guys behind the wake on the foil. Wow. The weekend before Wakefest and then at Wakefest. We're gonna try again. You're gonna give us this past year wake Fest is the first time Wake allowed any other sport in Wakefest, and they gave us two runs per day, which was pretty amazing. Wow. The crowd here was one at Kak was one thing, but they have 1500 wake boats in the water lined up screaming when the foresters came down. And it was such an intense experience. And next year I'll make sure the foil fever. We're gonna go go check it out and put on our contest. My friend Brian from Flight Deck, Tennessee, he's out there and he's doing a lot of the leg work for us. We've been doing it for the last, I don't know, four or five months now. When I called them like the day after this contest and I was like, okay, let's go. Let's get started. Working on the Tennessee contest. So we're gonna putting it out maybe in January. I would say to the public we already got a place to stay. It just, there's a lot more logistics trying to get a the lake because, it's open. Especially the lakes in Tennessee, you have three different states that goes through that lake. So you got guys from Ohio, Kentucky, and Tennessee that shares the same lake. There's a lot of people on that lake. But most of them Go ahead. Oh, I was gonna say, you said what, 150 wake boats on the lake or something like that. That sounds crazy. It was cool cuz they were all like tied up to each other. Oh. And it was like a big, it was like the cars, they call it walkie, but it was such a huge crowd and you get the, we stayed on the houseboats that was behind it. It was so intense. So intense. So hopefully on this first one that we do, we know it's not gonna be as big, I don't think any contest, any oil contest that we do is gonna be, can beat this. We said that 2019, but yeah. Saturday was way. Way bigger. It definitely, I think it definitely topped our first contest. Yeah, I just like the waves and the performance both were just, yeah. Just amazing. And I don't think anything like this has helped, been helped before, so it's just really cool to be there in person and see it happen. For sure. Oh, we're happy that you came down. Yeah, me too. I was stoked. Actually one thing I wanted to mention, somebody in the, on my video commented how was I able to get my drone to fly? Because this is a kind of really close to the airport and it's not in the flight line, but it's like in this blue zone, which is a restricted flight area for drones. You're not you need authorization to fly there, . And when I first tried it and I brought two drones and all my batteries and everything like that, and I couldn't get it to work, I was really frustrated cuz I showed up with all my stuff and then I couldn't fly and then cuz I had a DJ I flight controller and then I, I tried all this stuff that, that it said to do and it just kept rejecting my my thing. And then I finally tried my older controller, which works with my phone. And then while I was logged into the d I account using my older controller, maybe I didn't update it or something like that, but for some reason I was able to like self authorize, just go through that and then it worked, I was lucky to be able to fly cuz it took me like an hour to figure out how to make it work. But so basically, yeah, the way I was able to make it work was like self authorizing through my phone being connected to the, the phone controller on the dj Oh. Photo could tell you. Right there. Let me see you right there. That's where Polo's drone is right in this area. I know. I Oh, that was your drone Oneo. Yeah, I think we got pretty close a few times. Yeah. . Yeah. No, my drone is actually in Kak. Oh, in the water. Yeah. So I lost like few months ago, Uhhuh, I was flying it and then it automatically just went to auto landing. While I was out above the water flying, it just started landing, coming down slowly and slowly, almost close to the water. And I tried to shoot it to shore on the sand and it just barely, almost reached the sand, but it landed right in the water and it was like, oh, it's gone. That's, so we spent all day trying to swim for it.  all day for two days. . A lot of times it is usually happy just to get the SD card back with the footage, right? Cause you know the time, once it's in the salt water's probably not gonna survive it anyways. But at least you can get the footage outta it, right? Yeah. Oh yeah. I actually have the footage. It landing in the water. Oh. And it was connected to my phone, so I got the footage from that, cause I was recording that whole flight while it was landing Oh yeah. That's, it's pretty hilarious. Yeah. But yeah, that's something to be aware of that it's actually not an automatic thing that you can find the drone there, . Yeah. It depends on the size of your drone too. Yeah. So I had the airs. It was, it worked until, up until that day. Even the Minis, I know Chris Christian Park, he was flying his drone, so I think he had the DJ J Mini. Yeah. So he was able to fly it out there. It depends on the size of drone you have. Yeah. I guess that might be it too. But yeah. And then I also wanted to mention Alex, a GU from Gofo was there with a, I guess he had a telephoto lens and was shooting from the beach. And he posted a video too on YouTube that couple days ago. And that one has you can hear the comments from the crowd and the crowd cheering and stuff like that, which is definitely, that, that part is missing from the drone video for sure. That you don't get that. Oh yeah. The audio from the crowd is pretty cool. And then announcing Yeah. You get so pumped. You hear the crowd going, I was telling people the last few days, it's if we didn't have the contest and it was just a free for all regular session, you wouldn't see guys be pulling in like that or doing the crazy stuff that they were doing Saturday. But because these guys are like pushing each other, and that's a cool thing about the foyers, it's just no matter if you're in competition or not, everyone's pushing and hollering on the side yelling go. It's such a cool vibe, the spoilers, and that's hopefully, it's, it lasts a little bit longer. But even though, in the competition, the boilers we're something different, we're something special, I believe. I agree with that. Totally. And what do you think what's the cause of that? Like why is, why are boilers so much more open and yeah, like more open to sharing and just enjoying it together versus most of these foresters are surfers and in the lineup, on a surfboard you can sit in a water for an hour and might catch two waves. Where on a foil you can sit in a corner, tiny half a foot, white. And have the time of your life and catch two for one, three for one and or whatever. But when you get done, you're so tired, you're like, you're resting for 15 minutes anyway. Yeah, but, and it's so funny cuz I was pointing head and one of the uncles, the locals, and he's at the top of the hill and we, I walk up to the top and he goes, how come every time I see you spoilers, you guys always smiling Oh yeah, remember that? And yeah, I was like and I told him, cause after an hour session, avoiding to climb up that cliffs hill and make it , we're like, oh, our legs are so tired. And the last thing we wanna do is climb up that cliff. But it's true. All the floaters you see the positive attitude, the positive feedback from everybody trying. You'll never have a surfer go, Hey, come here, let me teach you how to serve where porters they're welcoming. I wanna teach you because they know the consequences of porters. We wanna teach and we do. We have free lessons, we have free demonstrations to the public that we put on once in a while for the whole safety. How can we tell these guys don't do this, don't do that when or when we are not out there actually teaching 'em how the right way of doing it. Because it is dangerous. Yeah. And even if we're somebody that has a lot of experience surfing and they think they can just jump on a foil and learn it easily because they already know how to surf sometimes that's the most dangerous because they're like, yeah. They you have that mentality already. Yeah. Mentality that they don't need any advice or whatever. True. But you can be on a one foot wave, on a foil and no matter what, you have to be on your toes. You start to be, you gotta be humble the whole time. And whether it's 20 feet or one feet the same humbleness is exactly the same. Yeah. Either way. Either way. You can end up with 20 stitches on your head if you know what you're doing. True. Either you'll get the stitches or some you'll do it to somebody else. That's what we are trying to avoid. I think something worth mentioning is that despite, everybody like having pretty gnarly wipe outs, in the most critical section, everything like that one and the foil Yeah. Tumbling around your head and stuff like that. Like nobody got injured, right? There was no injuries in this event, right? Or were they, did they miss so. There was one somebody grabbed a foil, I think by his hand. Oh. That was it. I forget who it was, but oh, was it Kane? Maybe. I'm not sure. Got the hand sliced open or something? His foot. Yeah. Oh, his foot was his foot. Okay. I know you keep on his foot. Yeah. Somebody contest or whatnot, but I saw Kane the next day we was out foiling again at Cak. , not bad, but yeah. Anyways so it looks really dangerous, but I guess if you if you know what you're doing and know how to avoid the foil it can actually be relatively safe, I would say. Oh, so the number one rule and when I taught pono how to foil when we got started and how I started that, these words will always stick to my head. And I always tell the same thing to anybody who wants to learn how to foil and foiling is, it's not how you foil, it's how you fall. And so when we started to learn have the confidence in falling hitting the white water, like I have full confidence on hitting the white water because I have full confidence on how I know how to bail, but I know how to. Once you start having that tendency of, or not confident in falling, that's basically when you get hurt. Yeah. And you gotta stay humbled. Of course you're gonna get hurt. It's not if it's wet. Yeah. I think the biggest tip for beginners is when you're surfing sometimes, like if you lose your balance and you're starting to fall off, you can catch yourself and you basically try to pull off the maneuver until you hit the water. And if, if you hit the water, then you're, then you crash. But foiling like as soon as you lose your balance a little bit or you feel like the foils not right out underneath you, it's just time to bail out right away and not try to correct it or save yourself in falling. It's a lot easier to come back to catch another wave than get hurt. Wait, couple weeks, , and then For sure. Let's talk a little bit about your background. Like what, how did you grow up and how did you get into foiling and all that? I'm curious Bono yeah, start with pono. Oh. I pretty much grew up here on Coi, here on Oahu a lot. Was back and forth between islands. Fondest memory of be learning how to surf was probably at Huy Little Beach here on Kauai. At the river mouth. Yeah, trying to learn how to surf. And then I got into body board when I moved up to Oahu, body boarded at a spot called tumble Lands in Mali. And then, yeah, and then pretty much moved back here, surf. And then I actually got started with Four Lane back in 20 20 18 from this guy, my uncle he was for before me and then he came over for New Years. Him and Uncle Cleve was like, Hey, you need to try this. So I tried it and I was pretty much hooked. I was watching guys Foley, I call ay for quite a while before I even started and I always was like, wow, that looks so cool, but looks so dangerous. Or maybe that's not for me. Sorry. It was actually Uncle  Cark, I would always see him out on his sub foiling. . I was like just, I think he was like one of the only ones that I actually saw like ripping on a foil so early in the game. Back in what, 2018? Yeah. He was definitely a pioneer, right? Yeah, for sure. He was one of the first guys and then my uncle Jason set me up with a foil and a board. I was pretty much fucked ever since. And still am. It's literally an addiction.  Talk, maybe talk a little bit about your first session. Like how was that , what did you learn on your first session? My first session That what foot waves? Or like 10 foot waves. It's scary. , I, that was the first day. The first, yeah, the first day I landed actually on the rail on my ribs. But the second day was like three to four foots. Oh, . And he couldn't even catch a weight. That's how, three, four foot horns on a perfect day. It gets really double gnarly. Super good. And I wanted to go out there, so I took Bono and he didn't catch. It was gnarly. That was my first of shame. Yeah. And he got humbled so bad. It just, and I got humbled as well too that day. But being his second day and taking him out there that, that was funny. Yeah. So what about you, Jason? Are you from Kauai as well originally or? Yeah, from Coi. I live about this is my home break right surface since I was five years old. And then, I went back first day of Foing what my friends and my cousin then was like, oh, we need to get up or you get you on. Foing was like, okay, I'll just try. I actually waited a few months for me to try it because I knew this is one of the sport that you'll like, so that's why you don't want do it. One, it's really knew how expensive it was and then how addictive it was. We really knew that before we even got one, one of these. It's like one of those sports that don't wanna do it because of that. But once I got on, that's why. Yeah, so I got it away. First base, first time was a kak bit, got super humbled, flew back the next day, went straight to Hawaiian water sports and bought my first set. And I was on the phone with my cousins, kale and Ola, and I was asking, what do you need? And the whole time, the whole drive all the way to a pulled into the parking lot, . And he was telling me all this stuff and you telling me about, you're gonna get hurt, this and that. And so that's how I started. And then just got, and then I ended up just pointing Queens after I came back. I got my gear. I learned how to fo like queens and pops and canoes. So what was your first foil? What did you start on? That was the first foil was John Mu bar, the Nubi and the eba Go Foil, Eva fo, which, it wants to fly it. The those right there, that set just wants to fly. So I have no problem learning on one of those for sure. It just doesn't wanna fly too fast. ? Not, yeah. Compared to what these guys are running and what we are running nowadays, it's a whole new ball game you have to, the progression, like from 2019, the progression, yes. Talent and confidence on your foil. But the gear has gone through, I mean it's so crazy the progression on the gear, the foils and the boards. I remember the boards back then. I remember one guy came out for real, the foam, a Clark foam had says Clark Foam on it and he basically no shape it, nothing. He didn't take a sand to it. He glassed the foam and stuck a underneath. I mean it was here in Oahu and I was laughing, but he was writing it. It was super flex of course, cuz there was like no carbon back. It was just straight stringer. It didn't last very long, but but I thought it was pretty classic, but the boards back then was just, yeah. Compared to now it's different. And then Oh, totally. So what do you ride now? What's your for foiling? So my setup is a magic 8 0 8 board made by Glen thing. Four, five left 17 and a half at 28 meters is my board. And then my foils are, we write access like the 82 82 centimeter use of mass and with the city short. And I ride a little bit bigger wing now cause gain a little bit weight as like the seven 40, I believe, the seven 40 PSC and a three 50 wing. Those things are so good for us. , a lot of people ask especially beginners is like what foil or what equipment should I buy? And that's one of the biggest, I wish, my cousin guys helped me, but now we have more options. Oh yeah. Every day there's new equipment coming in and like Honolulu, every other guy here shapes sports. You can get boards all over now, but guys like ing, guys from Freedom, those guys learned in the beginning the hard way, but now they've, they learn so much. And now the progression and how solid the boards are and how light the boards are, it's unreal. Super cool. Yeah. And then people, a lot of times people think that the board's not that important cuz you're just writing the foil, but it, the board does make a big difference cuz Yeah, like that the board is what kind of gets you up on the foil right in the first place. So without the right board, it's hard to even get up on the foil. Oh, for sure. And then in terms of length have you gone a little bit longer? It seems like for a while everybody's going as short as possible and then now people are using a little bit longer boards again? Or what's been your experience or progression? Oh, exactly. So we all started what, 3 10, 10 and wider was that 22 inches wide and like 35 liters. But now it's, the length Glen was like, oh, a little bit wider or longer and less say, okay, but I gotta come more narrow to make. For what I wanted to do. . So we went all the way down to 17 inches wide and the length we did go about, but yeah, three, four inches longer. And then we just started to pull in the leaders, the volume on our boards. Cause we noticed that you can feel the foil even more, it's way more responsive. Having that tail dropped in on the other bit. But yeah, it's insane. Yeah. Progression, the equipment, I for and for wing footing. Have you guys been wk foiling at all or are you getting into that at all, or? Yeah, not so much. Oh we've both definitely been wing foing. I can say was hooked on wing. Cause all he talks about every time is, Ooh look get. And it's barely that's yeah. What happened there? It looks like it is like the bottom dropped out from underneath you. Huh? So I told him that way. If he went, if he had a longer fuselage, he may, he would, he might would've had a chance. That one. Cause the shorter fuselage makes it more like a more loose on the front and back. So if, when you see him drops. He's going so hard and he was trying to correct it, and the thing just went, woo. Oh, was that the double up? Yeah. That one was crazy. So on that wave, that was the finals. So as the tide was, was lower dropping, I could see that the barrels was more like, it was a lot more wide open, more on the inside of the the brake.  Away from shoulders where everybody was taking off. So it was forming the a frame section more on the inside. So I was like, oh, okay, if I pump out, let me see if I can connect and get one of those. So as I'm going out and pumping it, I was like, ah, don't, I don't have a set here, but I see this wave. So its like, oh, ok, I'll just go for it. And as I'm pumping, I see a double up. I'm like, and I'm already behind the set. So I'm like, oh my goodness. What am I gonna do? So in that video, there's like a split second where I looks like I'm relaxed, but I'm like, should I go or should I not? And then in that split second, I'm like, ah, just go for it. . Yeah. It looks like you, you try to drop the nose down into the way, like you try to just go straight down the face, right? Yeah. Straight down. And try to correct it at the bottom of the way. But I was like, way too late. I was like, oh, crashed Yeah. Yeah, that was definitely tricky and there's a few times where you could see there were actually like sometimes the guys on the wave and then the wave right in front, there's another wave right in front breaking, and then they're yeah, it's and then doubling up or whatever. It was definitely a little bit, definitely tricky, right? Not just a smooth ride . No, everybody stepped, everybody who was out there in the waters stepped up their game. It was un unreal on how much progression there was. And we were all cheering each other on, like I was in, when I was in my heats, I was cheering on the guys that was in my heats, cheering on the guys that was in the next heat. We were trying to push each other and just, everybody's just charging us just sending it. It's so unreal to just see that, like in the water. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I've never seen that many people trying to pull into barrels on it's every other way. So we like try to duck under the lip and there was a few, actually a few rides that people pulled off. Fully barrel and then coming back out. It, I don't think I really got those, but definitely a few. It looks so perfect. Yeah. Not at all. Yeah. We were actually talking about maybe renting a house on the, on that other side of the bay. Oh, that was the, when you have your event and then maybe we could have the judges sitting on the balcony there, Oh yeah. And then of course, mother Nature's gonna provide waves again. , cause usually the waves like break further on the inside too, not, it's not always breaking that far out. Yeah. But anyways, yeah, I mean it's just a beautiful setup too. And then, yeah. So let's talk a little bit about the other division. So you had the gro division. What ages were the Gros? 14 and below s. Okay. And who, who won that? The gro division. Caden Pritchard from Maui. Cool. Yeah, I actually interviewed Caden for a wing full interview. He's also a really good wing foiler. He's, yeah, he's good. He's a charger for Little Gro. He's a grab it's charge. Yeah. Very cool kid. You had the, sorry, go ahead. The women's? , Glen was my pick on that. When every time, when the waves are this big our pick is always Glen now. Cause she's the only one that I know that charges super hard. She's charging all the way to I don't know, six, seven months pregnant. It was. And then and we had the Capona League, the 60 and above. Cause we did that one for the people of Koi. Cause a lot of uncles actually foiled at the spot  and they always just wanted to, I'm not gonna put them against somebody like Al or yeah. Mateo or whatever the case would be. But, so it was actually really good that we actually ended up having a division for them. So it was pretty good. And KA is 60 and over, right? Yeah, 60 and over. Okay. What's out? I think a Coco makes 60 next year. Yeah. So they gotta be careful. , you can enter that one next year. . Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the boys are down. So there's upstairs where the judges were sitting at, up on the top of the new hall. Oh, there you go. Oh, and then, yeah, afterwards you had a cool event. Lots of cool prizes and everything. Nice dinner. So that was cool too. Live music, everything. So yeah, that was a great event. I have to say. You guys did a really good job and I know it's a lot of work to do something like this thank you for putting it on and yeah, making it no was so cool. Especially the first competition that we've done. In 2019 we put this on po I went to po you're gonna contest. Okay, let's do it. And out of all everybody that on the staff Ohana, my sister, it was my sister, my mom my, my daughters. None of em. Foil, none. I won't foil none of 'em really serve the competition contest wise, nobody's done it. Initially I was in the contest of 2019 and then my buddy Cle, the head judge is like, there's no way you can foil this contest. We are gonna need help . So after that I, these guys told me I, I'm not allowed to foil any of our contests ever. So that's how we, now it's, it was just funny cuz like everybody's doing this. The only guys that foil is the judges. That's the only people on the staff that actually foils, which is cool. Which is amazing, having that support like we just, we volunteered them, not volunteered, them kind help us out with the contest and they're all up for, they saw our vision and the supported us from the get go. To have that support is like unreal. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So do you think I guess here on Oahu, like the foil contests are usually kind of part of other like the buffalo surf meat, they add like a foil division and stuff like that. But it seems yeah, it seems like there aren't really that many real surf foiling competitions yet. Yeah. Yeah. We are the I believe we were the first one ever in 2000. Yeah. A full foil contest. Yeah. Yeah. Because like you said, Rob, it was a part of part of Duke's, part of the buffalo. So this is the first time I think we had, I didn't know the contest I did with you. Was it the Pumping? Yeah. The hundred Waves contest or whatever. Hundred man one I think was the boys man one. And that was awesome. That was that. Oh, you guys got this on. So I actually, I was gonna play this kind of do a separate video outta this, but this was like when we got there on Friday, the day before the event we went straight from the airport to to this spot and it was like blowing. We like all excited about, went out in the water and I. Good wing foiling session and yeah, and I only brought my wing foiling gear. I didn't even bring any, anything else, but cuz I was looking forward to trying to do that down downward race, oh yeah. Glad you guys scored at Hon Ma Beach. Yeah. Was a super fun spot too. Why didn't we go there? ? You didn't wanna, you wanted to go call. Oh, okay. But yeah, I'll probably do this, share this another time, but, so yeah, get back to you guys and but yeah so let's talk a little bit more about foiling and like for people that are getting into foiling, want to wanna get better. Like what are your pointers or like what were like some breakthroughs for you or like good tips that you can share with people, both of you behind the boat, in the river or a lake, getting food. I think that's the easiest and safest way to, to learn and the fastest, instead of trying to take off on waves, not knowing how actual foil works. And then, yeah, like on a bigger board, bigger foil to it, it it'll help you get up easier and faster instead of a smaller setup where, It's a little bit harder to get up on foil at first. Once, once you figure out how the foil will react to like your foot placement, your body weight, front to back foot ratio, all that you have to take into consideration in order to get the right height on foil. And then just trying to be safe on the foil. I I think each time you go out every session, you gotta remember okay, this didn't work. Oh, okay, wait, this work. Okay, let me try this. It's a step by step process. You can't just go out one session and be like, oh, I'm ripping, or I know everything about Foing because the next session you'll get humbled really quick. Yeah. And it seems like a lot of people they try it a couple times and then they just give up. They find it too challenge. Yeah. With foing you have to be like consistent, go every day. Cause I think when I first started, I think I went six months straight every day, seven days a week. literally limited. Yeah. Until I got it like fully down. I think the more consistent you are, the faster you learn. And the better you become at a whole new sport. Just the feeling alone gets you out there in the water just to be up on foil and just flying. Just fly straight. Just flying straight is always fun. I think that was the main goal from like the beginning. So for me, I forward at c Coffee, that's where I learned. And then my goal in the beginning was always try to make it to shore. Just go straight and make it to shore without getting her . Yeah. What about you Jason? You got some tips? Yeah. So once you get on, so I actually, when I teach people, I take on my ski and I have a six, six blue planet that I actually use to to teach. And to me, that's one of the really good board to learn cause it's long enough and it's a lot easier to control. They can actually stand up on the thing without lying down with knees, doing all, you bypass all that part, go to the stand up, hold the rope and you just take off. So I always tell guys when we start to learn is everybody just wants to fly and they wanna stay up there, it's like everybody wants to be like 10 steps ahead, we need to step back a little bit, I always tell like one of guys like, crawl, walk, run. There's no rush. Once you can get up on foil, I tell the people to push it all the way back down and then go back up again and then push it all the way back down. That way, how much pressure each leg or are you standing in the right spot to push it down to control, learning how to control once you get up to that 36 inches or whatever left your real foil is because that's when you start to get hurt and when you start to breach. So always if you start to control yourself at like 12 inches, go up, go back down and just keep on doing that, then by a time when you get to your 30 inches, whatever case you have control to stay at that spot. But that's one of the, one of the other things that, that we like to teach too. Cause there's no rush in learning how to but expect nowadays you got, these 10 year old kids learning how to foil on the very first day. Yeah. Yeah. I thought one. Go ahead. Yeah, I think part of that is just, yeah the equipment's so much better and more dialed in. And if you have, if you have the right equipment and the right instructions, then yeah, it's possible to learn it quickly, especially for young kids that just pick it up easily. Yeah. But yeah, that, I think that Sam pa always say, stay low and in control, right? Low and in control. Low and in control. Still to today, if I'm coming down the line, he'll say those exact same words to me.  Sam never changes. He'll, no matter who how good you, and that's the thing we talked to with Sam PAs we don't care how good you are or how good you think you are, you're going to get humbled or hurt somebody. So you got to stay on your toes at all time and, be focused on a foil by you being on a board. But once you get up, you have to stay focused which is amazing. I think that's why we're so addicted to this sport, because n

Jeff Chang has such a special view of race and culture in America that it's almost impossible to do him justice. He draws on his Hawaiian/Chinese roots and his background as a hip hop DJ and indie label founder to help us better understand culture, politics, the arts, and music. Jeff was formerly the Vice President of Narrative, Arts, and Culture at Race Forward. He now serves as a Senior Advisor and leads the Butterfly Lab for Immigrant Narrative Strategy.  Jeff also served as the Executive Director of the Institute for Diversity in the Arts at Stanford University. He has written for The Guardian, Slate, The Nation, the New York Times, the San Francisco Chronicle, The Los Angeles Review of Books, The Believer, Foreign Policy, N+1, Mother Jones, Salon, and Buzzfeed, and is the author of three really terrific books: Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation, Who We Be: The Colorization of America, and We Gon' Be Alright: Notes on Race and Resegregation. Jeff and Eric discuss the political voice of hip hop, the Chris Rock/Will Smith Oscars moment, what it means to be an American, and a lot more. Tune in and listen to Jeff walk on wings!  

Jeff Chang has such a special view of race and culture in America that it's almost impossible to do him justice. He draws on his Hawaiian/Chinese roots and his background as a hip hop DJ and indie label founder to help us better understand culture, politics, the arts, and music. Jeff was formerly the Vice President of Narrative, Arts, and Culture at Race Forward. He now serves as a Senior Advisor and leads the Butterfly Lab for Immigrant Narrative Strategy.  Jeff also served as the Executive Director of the Institute for Diversity in the Arts at Stanford University. He has written for The Guardian, Slate, The Nation, the New York Times, the San Francisco Chronicle, The Los Angeles Review of Books, The Believer, Foreign Policy, N+1, Mother Jones, Salon, and Buzzfeed, and is the author of three really terrific books: Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation, Who We Be: The Colorization of America, and We Gon' Be Alright: Notes on Race and Resegregation. Jeff and Eric discuss the political voice of hip hop, the Chris Rock/Will Smith Oscars moment, what it means to be an American, and a lot more. Tune in and listen to Jeff walk on wings!  

Hip-Hop began in the Bronx but quickly spread across the country and the world. In this episode, Davey D and Jeff Chang are back to talk about the spread of hip-hop from the east coast to the west coast, and all the places in between. Plus, Busy Bee rejoins Caz to recount their journey from the Bronx to Japan and how they brought the foundations of hip-hop around the world. Grab your ticket because hip-hop is going global on this track. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Mind-altering substances have always had an influence on popular culture and music, but for hip-hop it wasn't just in the music. In the late ‘70s and ‘80s drugs were in communities and homes all around the city. As the epidemic tore through the Bronx, hip-hop was an escape and way for people to tell their stories. In this episode Caz invites scholar and author Jeff Chang to talk about the role drugs have played in hip-hop music and culture in the Bronx, walking us through the evolution of substance use and hip-hop through time. Legendary MC Busy Bee and Sha Rock return to talk about their personal experiences and how they rose above and beyond the strife with hip-hop at their side.If you or someone you know is struggling with substance abuse or a mental health disorder, call the SAMHSA National Helpline 1-800-662-HELP (4357) or visit https://www.samhsa.gov/ for free, confidential treatment referral and information, 24/7 See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Maori chats with kindred spirit and prolific writer Jeff Chang, author of Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation. In their conversation they time travel back to the 80's and 90's, looking at how hip-hop transformed their politics and shaped their outlooks on the world. They also discuss how to learn from failure, Black and Asian solidarity, and the significance of chosen family.

A sneak peek at Season 2 of Many Lumens with Maori Karmael Holmes.  Produced by BlackStar Projects,  this season premieres May 11, 2022 and will feature 12 new conversations with the most groundbreaking artists, change makers, and cultural workers in the game.  Subscribe to Many Lumens wherever you listen to your podcasts.Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @manylumens. Trailer features Season 2 guests Imani Perry, Jeff Chang, Sky Hopinka, and Yaba Blay.

In this episode Matt talks with Jeff Chang, a Police sniper subject matter expert. Jeff is a U.S. Marine Corps Veteran who deployed to two wars as a scout sniper and a private contractor. Jeff also spent the last 12 years on a major metropolitan SWAT team, finishing his time as the sniper team leader. Listen in as Jeff shares his story about being a sniper and going from military to law enforcement service, with all the lessons learned.  Standing OffhandInstagram & Facebook: @standing_offhandhttps://www.standingoffhand.com/The OpTempo Training Group website for an updated list of classes:https://optempotraining.com/@optempotraining on Instagram and FacebookFind us on Youtube at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4kBpYUjDdve9BULTHRF2Bw/featured?view_as=subscriberLowa BootsIG: @lowa.professional and @lowabootshttps://www.lowaboots.com/

In the fifth installment of Reflections: A Race Forward Podcast, recorded at the National Immigrant Integration Conference 2021,  Jeff Chang, Senior Advisor at Race Forward, Butterfly Lab for Immigrant Narrative Strategy tells Race Forward's Hendel Leiva, “It's been really important for a lot of folks, many who are at this conference, to be able to encourage folks to really understand how anti-Blackness works in the context of immigration reform. And so I think the idea of solidarity is something that needs to really be put into practice.”  Jeff also talks about the process of working with the brilliant minds brought together for Race Forward's Butterfly Lab for Immigrant Narrative Strategy, and how he envisions narrative work leading to impactful long-term wins.  About, Jeff Chang: https://bit.ly/3ArvCpg Executive Producers: Hendel Leiva & Cheryl Cato Blakemore Associate Producer: Kendy Solis Produced in collaboration with the National Partnership For New Americans

In this episode, from our series on Teach the Black Freedom Struggle, our host, Jesse Hagopian, a high school teacher and Rethinking Schools editor, facilitates a conversation between authors Jeff Chang and Dave “Davey D” Cook on their new young adult version of Can't Stop Won't Stop: A Hip-Hop History. Chang and Davey D catalogue the role of urban policy, marginalization of Black and Brown youth in places like New York and Los Angeles, and how that influenced both the politics and the development of hip-hop. The struggle for Black Power played a direct role in shaping the music from its onset. Our guests also discussed how hip-hop shapes both the movement for Black lives and why young people should learn about the history, aesthetics, and politics of hip-hop. Read about the event and find related resources.

WBL's Alternative Winter Break series features conversations with people working in the creative sector. This episode features hip-hop journalists / authors Davey D & Jeff Chang. Follow us on Instagram @wordsbeatsandlife

Aloha friends is Robert Stehlik. Thank you for tuning into another episode of the blue planet show.  on the blue planet show. I interview Wingfoil athletes, designers and thought leaders. And I asked them questions, not just about wing foil equipment and technique, but I'm also trying to get to know them a little bit better, their background, what inspires them and how they live their best life. You can watch this show on YouTube for visual content, or you can also listen to it as a podcast on the go to search for the blue planet show on your favorite podcast. I haven't come out with a new blue planet show for awhile. It's cause I've been super busy. You might've heard that. We took over a new shop in Haleiwa on Oahu's north shore, formerly known as tropical rush. We just opened there and I've been super busy, getting everything set up. It's really exciting, but it also, it takes a lot of time. So I haven't had as much time for the YouTube channel and the blue planet show, but I've been waiting for a long time for Alex  to come onto the show and he finally had some time to do it. So I got a great interview with him. Alex is nutty about wing foiling. He's coming out with GoFoil Wing foil boards and wings. And of course he plays such an important role in the development of the sport. He basically invented the foil that allowed Kai Lenny to do downwinders on a big long board. And basically kick-started this whole sport of foiling in the surf and now with wings. So thank you for that, Alex. And without further ado, this is the interview with Alex. All right, Alex Aguera. Thank you so much for joining me on the blue planet show. So how are you doing today? Doing great early in the morning, over here. How are you doing Robert? I'm good. Yeah. So I'm on here on a Oahu. You're on Maui, nine o'clock on a Wednesday. So yeah. So tell us, let's start a little bit with your background. Where did you grow up and how did he get into water sports and like early childhood to start from the very beginning? For getting into water sports, it started when I was let's see about 14. We went on a family vacation. I grew up in Clearwater, Florida, by the way. And. We went on a family vacation to the Virgin islands, British Virgin islands, and we're going to be on a sailboat and, do the bareboat charters where you travel around to each of the islands. And it's, it was just a fun, two week trip in the, in a place where we'd never been in places that were super clear water like that crazy, it was just fantastic. But anyway, the captain of our boat, we had hired a captain who would sail us around to the, for the first week. And then we were on our own. The second week, the the guy would put this wind surfer in the water at this one place where we first started called Soper Sol and Tortola. Any of, they would start sailing around with him and his other captain, buddy friend, on this funny looking sailing craft that, ended up being one of the original. Baja style windsurfers. So this would be for the original windsurfer was some of the first boards that oil swipes, or it may, and it looked like a big, giant, long board made out of a fiberglass. But anyway, when we got back to Florida after the chip, my dad wanted to check this out as a possible, get the kids doing this. Cause we were riding motorcycles and stuff at the time you wanted to get us off of motorcycles. So he calls up Hoyle Sweitzer, which was windsurfing international or whatever. They called themselves. At that time, this was really early. This is like 1975. And oil tells him, he goes, Hey, I'll sell you six of them and make you a dealer, so it was like, okay, we were the first dealer and in Florida and it all started from there. We started wind surfing right in 1975. And that's how I got into all these other sports that have evolved since then. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. Foil Schweitzer is Zane Schweitzer's grandfather who basically invented the sport and had the patent and everything. Yeah. So your dad became the first either the first wind surf dealer in Florida. Yeah. Like district nine or whatever, what are they? I can't remember fleet nine or something, the, for the ninth, one in the United States. So that's when the books were still made out of wood and stuff like that. And the bowl we're still out of wood. There was a daggerboard was still out of wood. We hadn't progressed to, a composite looking white daggerboard yet. And we hadn't invented harnesses yet foot straps or anything. Okay. And then, okay. And then what happened next? After that, we Pursue to get better and better at wind surfing. And my dad started to be the distributor for the Southeast United States. And we were really in the winter and our whole life changed from, he was working at Honeywell, which is one of the firms down there in Florida. He was a engineer. And then he switched over to just going to be wind surfing. We're going to go all in, into this wind surfing thing. So from there, we add a whole bunch of people in Florida that we were the original Florida wind surfing crew. We called ourselves the fearless flying Floridians there for a couple of years. And it was a real close crew there in the Clearwater Sarasota area that we always raced against each other. And we just got better and better. And then pretty soon we were doing well in the national and world championships. Awesome. And then. How old were you when you did that kind of the racing and your first world championship? I guess? My first national championship was the following year. What Hoyle used to do back then was we would do these big district championships. There was like maybe five or six throughout United States and whoever had won their district championship would get a free trip to the nationals. So the nationals then following year in 76, I'm 15 years old, a win, a free airfare to Berkeley, California, where we're going to do the nationals. And I traded it in for money to buy a bus ticket and pay for my hotel when I'm over there. So just imagine you're 15 years old, you're traveling in a Greyhound bus, cross country. Get over there, you rent your own wind surfer back then they would have, rental packages where you just come in, rent your own gear and then raise. So at 15, that was quite an experience, to have my parents to be able to let me go, all the way across the country and do that all by yourself was, looking back at it now back then, seem oh, that's okay. I can do this. We'll look back at it. Now. I was like, God, I would never put my kids through that. But that was a fantastic Regata because. What happened was, so it was 76. We're at Berkeley. We had a lot of wind and stuff, but as first time I get to meet Mike waltz and Matt Sweitzer, who were like the gurus back then of windshield, because they had a thing called the windsurfing news, which was like a little paper back, like a magazine, the early wind surfing magazine was a paperback called wind surfing news. And it was always the swipe tours and like waltz and this and that. So we get over there, meet Matt and Mike can win or goes for his first championship with all the boys. And Robbie Nash does his first championship. All the boys, he, so little 12 year old blonde kid comes in from Kailua. So it was like, all of us got together for the first time at that time. And he was Robbie Nash is two years younger than you about, okay, so you were 14 and then there's someone even younger than you showing up. Yeah. Yeah, that was, how did you do in that? Oh, I got beat up. It was blowing really hard. And in Florida where I learned, I was just learning to race around and, barely get planing kind of conditions, which we have in Florida coming up to that summertime, you get to Berkeley, it's blowing 20 to 20 fives, sometimes gusting 30 and one of the races. And I don't think I got across the starting line. I got beat up. I was just rag dolling. Cause you only had one, one sail and it was pretty big. I probably weighed 125 pounds at the time. And I remember there was these divas, these sisters, the SWAT tech sisters. There was Susie and Martha and The girls just beat up on me. I was getting whooped up on by girls mad. It was like, oh, bad. It was, I was humbled when I went there, but watching some of the stuff that was just then evolving because Robbie had come over and he started doing this railroad thing, it's the first time any of us see a rail ride. And I was like, oh my God, what is that kid doing? Who is that kid? And then by the time, the week it ended max White's here. And I think Mike had picked it up and Ken were all doing railroads by the end of the week. They had figured it out. But when you first saw that, I was like, what the heck? That's something new. And then we did one of the, I think it was, could have been the very first freestyle event there. And. The guide who Dennis Davidson, who was one of the original Kailua windsurfers was putting a little teeny fin on his board. He was doing these super fast tax and stuff. And we were like, wow. And he ended up winning the very first freestyle. Oh. And then again, so that's awesome. And so then how did that progress it, you became a professional windsurfer, right? Yeah. That that was many years later in about 1980, started getting paid to do wind surfing races by wind surfing international and oil spikes or, and we would go over to Maui for the first time. We were going to do the Pan-Am world cup was a real big race. It was for high wind and it was in Kailua. And the first year I didn't go to, it was in 79. There wasn't any wind. So they had to race in Waikiki. The next year, oil flies us out. I spend six weeks on Maui practicing with Mike waltz. He had told me, Hey, you gotta come over here and see this place. If it blows all the time, he had just discovered Okinawa, within the last six months. And he goes, there's nobody around the wind's blowing all the time. There's waves. So my brother and I went over there and hung out with Mike for about six weeks. Then we went to Kailua to do the first real pan Emmerich's. It was blowing hard and it's like the windiest day you've ever been in Kailua now is what we experienced for a whole. And we were like, oh my God, this place is gnarly. We were scared to death coming from Florida and seeing that kind of stuff. And that was one of the very first, big, high wind regattas and wind surfing history. Wow. Cool. And you said your dad was an engineer at Honeywell. So did you ever get any like formal education as an engineer or any kind of like that kind of thing? Or is it, are you just all self-taught on the side? Yeah, on that side, it's been mostly self-taught. I went to, some business classes in community college after I got out of high school, but I moved over to Maui after that 1980 trip. I was like, oh, I'm selling everything. I'm moving to Maui. As soon as I can. It took me about a year and a half to be able to pull it off. Then I moved back in 1982 to become a professional. Nice. Yeah. And then, so how was that getting started on Maui in the eighties? That was something, it was great. We were, I don't know if Paya very well, but back then there was, it was hardly anybody in pyuria. There's no traffic light. We rented a place. It's right next to where mana foods is now, back then, there wasn't any model foods yet, but we rented a Quonset hut there. That is where they still store some of their, use it for storage of some of the stuff that the store. But anyway, there was at some time, six of us staying in this Quonset hut for 250 bucks a month rent. So we're all paying like 40 bucks a month rent and living in Maui, nobody around we're going to hokey every day and just having a blast, nobody around on the road, everybody you saw on the road was a windsurfer. You knew everybody. It's like now it's all tourist going by. Yeah. Molly has changed a lot. I lived there in the nineties or late eighties and early nineties. I lived in Peggy too, like really close over there. So I remember those days we lived in a basement apartment, which is super cheap, but yeah. And then driving old Molly cruisers rusted out cars, all that. And then, and then at that time, when surfing was developing really rapidly and changing and stuff. And did you start making equipment back then already? Or how did that, how did you get into business that business? I used to, I was sponsored by high-tech surf sports and Craig Masonville, who was the original guy for high-tech used to shape all of my boards. And we were riding the old asymmetrical, wind surfing boards that we used to ride at hook. I want a couple of the big contests that hook keep a riding those. And then I was always on the pro world tour for wind surfing. And eventually it was hard to get the boards that you wanted, because I had to start working for my French guys Tega and they were making me boards and then Craig was making me boards and it was hard to get boards on time sometimes through the high-tech factory. And I said, oh the heck with this, I'm going to try and start building boards myself. So in 1989 was probably the first time I was racing on one of my own boards. I remember racing in the Gorge and doing really well on that. And at the high-tech surf summer series I won a couple races on my own board and I was all proud. I was like, oh yeah, I might be able to do this. So that's how long ago I started. Yeah. Nice. So those are, slalom racing boards is, were your first boards you built? I got the first boys were slalom racing boards. The way boards is a little bit more technical cause it's easier to break those. So the first law and boards, I didn't have any sandwich on them. They were just covered with carbon and I had some elaborate process for stretching the cloth over it and wetting it all out and keeping the rock or shape, and then learn how to do vacuum bagging and sandwich construction after that. Yeah, I was working for hunt Hawaii in those days and he, we were, he was still building boards with using polyester as in, but then I guess at that time it would switched over to Potsie. So is that, what do you use the proxy or polio? My first boards from Masonville were always polyester. Then we started switching to a poxy in about 1985. I've got a slot onboard that Dave calling on, who was the laminator for high-tech back then we started experimenting with styrofoam and carbon fiber, and I raced the first one in 1985. I think it was. And that's where we're like, oh man, this is white, stiff and strong. And we're like, the lightness was just incredible compared to polyester. And I won the Gorge the second year in a row on that board. And I won the Japan world cup that year and in the spring on that court. But we learned a lot of things about, styrofoam construction goes back. We would just sink the boxes into the styrofoam. And then by the time I had finished the Japan race, my deck box had collapsed into the board. There was a big hollow spot inside. Okay. We were learning a whole new phone core and what to do with it. There was a lot of learning in that. Luckily the board stayed together until the race was over. Yeah. Classic. And then use like vacuum bagging and all that kind of stuff too, or just regular later. Yeah. When I started, I got my first vacuum bag bored by this guy, Gary efforting, who was a, you might remember him. He was the guy that made Hypertech in the Gorge and him and Keith notary would do these. They called it a clam sandwich or something where they were doing vacuum bagging. But Gary and I, he was a friend of mine because we all grew up in the same area in Clearwater, Florida. And he was showing, he made one of my original 12 foot long boards that we used to raise some world cup. And he was using this new aircraft technology called sandwich, construction. And he was the first guy that I saw doing sandwiches on boards. And slowly I learned how to do all of those process. A lot of it was trial and error, but eventually I was, I had retired from the pro wind surfing tour and started running the probe windsurfing tour. And then at the same time as being the race director, I started building boards for top guys like Kevin Pritchard and Mike abou Zionist. And those were all, they had to be super custom, super like sandwich boards. Wow. Okay. And then I guess when tiding came around, you got into kite surfing or yeah. W what happened there? The kite surfing, it was it was funny because we were sitting over here. We're all wind surfers. Layered was still a wind surfer. And he started playing with this kite and my other buddy maneuver Tom from France was starting to experiment with this kite thing and we'd see him at home Keepa. The guys were takeoff with these funny, real bars and all kinds of weird hiding stuff and start sailing this kite and go cruise down the coast, and ended up down at Kanawha or wherever. And I'm like, wow, that looks pretty interesting. What the heck is that? I didn't want to do it until somebody got back to the beach. They started out, I'm not really into this down winter and you're out there, on this thing, out in the blue water, with the, whatever could go wrong in palette around with the shark. So okay. If you could get back to where you started, that's what I finally started getting into it now. I don't know, in 97 or 98 or whatever, somebody was finally making it back. But what really got me into it was flash. Austin had moved over from Florida. He was lived in Daytona and he came over and he was this new kite guru guy. And I would watch him jump and he's  25 feet in the air and just hang in there and then come down real soft of flashy to have great Ky control. He still does. And I was just watching that going, wind surfing. If you jumped 25 feet in the air, you come down hard. I don't care what kind of stuff you're doing. It's that there's an impact. So I was like, I really want to do that. That's what really got me interested in kiting was watching flashed land softly. I'm like, okay, now I want to go boosting. So when you got into D did they still have those reels where you had two reel in the kite, if you get, if you drop it in the water. Yeah. Those guys were still using that, but I'm Brett lyrical and all those guys had their kite reels and I'm like, no, I'm not playing with that. Cut real. Does they look like you eat it? And then there's all this metal and stuff in your face. I started out with one of the two line whip, mocha kites, and then progressed to a two line Nash guy. And then eventually we started making four line kites and it got a little bit easier, those original to lion whip because, and stuff, they were all that was around, but they were a little bit dangerous. There was a lot of accidents in those early days. It took a while before at least five years before the kites got, safe enough to where, people weren't hurting themselves so bad anymore. Yeah. And then I guess around that same time the strap crew I guess layered and restaurant, all those guys started foiling, right? Torn, foiling and jaws and stuff like that. So when was the first time you tried foiling and how did you get into that? Foiling. I didn't try foiling until much later. Those guys were all into these BNN, bindings and strapped into this little board and everything weighed about 60 pounds. It seemed and big aluminum, mass and just super heavy. And then of course, these guys were real right. They were like, Hey, we're going to go to jobs. We're going to ride out or spread, it was like, you're all in, or you're not, and I'm like, they're like, Hey Alex, you got to try this. And I'm like, no way, man. I'm not going to be strapped into that tank and going over the falls. And that looks dangerous. But those guys there, they really were into it at the time. And we were all towing too at the time. With, our little tow strap boards. And I remember one day we were out at Spreckels mill and rush Randall is towing around. It's pretty small for tow day. We like to tow it. It's eight foot plus, and have some fun and it's four feet occasionally. And you're waiting for a set, but rush is going around in circles, just on his foil, cruising around at least doing backflips, going out with this thing while he's getting pulled with the checks. And we're like, man, what the heck? Russia's having a lot more fun than we are. So that was one of the first times where I really looked at it and go, wow, this could be fun. But for me to actually get into it myself, I was kite foiling at the time I had start, this is a, it was a funny story because I had stopped kiting for like about five years, Jesse Richmond, who was the world champion at the time. And his brother, Sean, they were like the best or kiters on Maui. And Jesse goes, Hey, you got to start making some kite or some tight race boards for us. I'm getting beat by girls out on the course. We just started this tight racing thing. So Jesse got me into kiting again. So I built a few boards. Then I had to test them with those guys. And that's how I got back into kiting then. So this lasted for. Maybe three years of kite racing. That was the one that we had the big, three fins on it. And you're, racing up when, so then my buddy in Martha's vineyard, we started foiling back then they were riding all kinds of funky foils, but it was the early days of foils. Most of them came out of France back then and he goes, Alex, I need you to make me a kite foil board and I'll trade you this foil, you got to start getting into foiling and you I'll trade it for a board. So I did this with my buddy, Rob Douglas, he's the world speed record holder for kiting back in the day. And he goes, okay, we're going to do a trade. So that was my introduction into kite foiling. And he gave me this foil that he had already beat up. He weighs about 2 35 or breaks the heck out of everything. And it was all wobbly and I had to keep fixing it. I was breaking it and stuff, and that's how I got. My first initiation into foiling and how to build foils. Cause I was always fixing it. And then I started making my own wings, and that's that was, started me all into foiling. Yeah. And on those foils for kite, for them back then were tiny, right? Really small wings and really long mass and so on. Or is that kind of what you started on? That's what we all started on because back then it was the same thing with layered in those guys. We had these really thin foils cause we were only interested in speed. We wanted to go faster and faster. Nobody wanted to make something to go slower. So everything back then it was, they were small, they were thin, everything was like the fast race foils were less than, 13 millimeters thick. They were, 14 or 15 millimeters was a fat foil. So that's what that's what we used to do. Yeah. And then at, and did you, when you made your own fuzzy, like CNC of them out of G 10, or what kind of how did you make your own foil? Basically what I did in the beginning was I would take some existing foil that I had, and then I would reshape it and try to figure out how to make molds. So I was making molds and figuring out how to do that. It was a whole different process. I was used to building boards and sandwich, construction, vacuum bag now on a changed to, Hey, you got to learn how to make molds and make these wings. So it was a big learning curve. I've made a lot of mistakes. I burned up a lot of molds. I did all kinds of crazy stuff. It was just like learning to build boards. You've got, there's a big learning curve, but that's what I ended up doing. And I would take some of the wings that I got and that I wanted it bigger or smaller or whatever, and I would reshape them and then make molds off of them. And then when did you actually start your business? The gold foil business and started making foils to sell? Like when was that? Yeah, and I think for Gofoil, I probably was in maybe 2013 or 14. First I put the, a name on my kite foils. Then I went to Vietnam to have my buddies over there at kinetic T. I taught them how to build the foils and then I changed it to go for it. I had this idea I'm over there with the boys in Vietnam and it, they don't speak English, super well. So I'm telling them, what do you guys think about this name? It's like gold foil, just go for it. They'd were like, yeah, I don't get it. I had to go for by myself cause I couldn't get anybody to confirm that, Hey, that's a good idea at the time, but I got my buddies over there to make me the logos and stuff. And that's where I came up with. The name go foil was when I first went over to Vietnam and started putting it in production that's way before any of the foils that everybody knows as gold foil. Now. So the kinetic factory was making your first kite surfing. Foils. Yeah. So the ones in production at first, I was building it all here, custom and I started building boards and the foils over there at Connecticut. Okay. I'm gonna, I'm going to screen share a little bit here. And then at some point He made a foil for Kailani. And then he posted this video that kind of took, I guess now it has over 5 million views, which is just amazing. But can you tell us a little bit about the backstory behind, behind this and how that all came about? There's a long story behind that, if you want to go into it, the, we want to hear all about it. Okay. In the beginning, this was about maybe eight months prior to this Kai was riding my kite foils and we decided that we were going to put one of them on his one of his standup boards. So we put a Tuttle box and one of his, I think he had an eight foot standup order, 76 or something at the time. And we put the kite foil on it and he was going to go stand up foil. And I never really heard back from Kai about it. He comes back about six or eight months later and he goes, Hey Alex, we gotta redo that thing about going down, wind foiling again. And I go what happened with the first foil? And he goes it's dangerous and there's not enough lift. And it was really hard to ride and I'm like, okay let me think about it. And I'll try and come up with something. We'll try it again. So what ended up happening was I spent two weeks taking one of the old kite foils that I had that I really liked that had the most lift and I kept changing it. And adding on, I had this idea that we got to rethink all of this, that, thin foils is not what you need to get going under your own power. We need something that's going to be a slower foil that can lift up more weight, at a slow speed. And I'm thinking shoot, these big aircraft planes that are lifting tanks and stuff go by having bigger thicker wings and different foil sections. And I started trying to mimic that on one of my kite foils. So I would build it up Bondo and AB foam, reshape it and glass in and kept playing with it. And about two weeks before I finally said, okay, you've done enough remodeling here. Cause you're never going to get it. Perfect. You have a little bumps here or whatever, and you're like, okay, let's try. So I call up Kai or I sent him a text and Kai is oh, I'm in LA, I'm on my way to Europe. I'm doing the indoor in in Paris with Robbie. We're doing, it's a wind surfing indoor. Okay I'll try it out and see how it works. So I go down to sugar coat, which is here on Mallee, which is a kind of a bumpy funky way when it's fairly big. And it's like head high Peaky sets all over the place and kind of gnarly, for trying to foil for the first time I go out and say, what the heck I'm going for it. And actually Jeffrey and fin Spencer are in the water surfing and my dentist Barclays in the water. So we've got all these guys witnessing me going out there and trying to kill myself. So I go out big standup paddleboard, or what did you put the foil on? Yeah, I had made a board that was. I think it was eight, six or nine foot was my standup board. I put a total box in it about 24 inches from the tail and I'm thinking, okay, this should be good. Where I want to stand on. It will give me a little bit of lift. Cause I moved it forward compared to what I do on my kite foil. And I use the kite mass though, which is 38, 39 inches tall. I've got this new front wing, which ended up being the original Kaiwei. And so I put that on there, go out. I had a tail wing that I didn't like for kiting, cause it had too much lift. So I used that for the sup foil to cause I needed more or less. So I'm like, okay, I'll try that. See if it works, get out there. All of a sudden I rise up and I'm like, I got plenty of lift and then I roll over and I'm looking at these wings in my life because I'm on this giant mask, and it's just, I kept looking at the wings. After about five near misses of hitting that wing with my face. I go into the beach and I'm thinking to myself now I know what Kai's talking about now. I know why it's dangerous to the masters too tall. So I go back to the shop, cut the thing in half, I cut it down to 18 inches or something and go back to lower lowers it. the next day. And actually take my GoPro and film myself writing. I remember I went over an Eagle Ray or something that day got a nice video and I'm going like, at times almost 50 yards, I'm like, whoa, I could do this. And it was just like amazing. And a couple of my buddies were in the water and saw that fuck buck saw it and Jerry Rodriguez saw it. And these guys were just like, they couldn't believe it. They're like, oh my God, he's doing it. But anyway, is this on your YouTube channel? I put it in Facebook back then Facebook. I put it in Facebook. I've got it somewhere. I can find it. I don't think I ever put it in YouTube. I don't know. I might've. Yeah, but you go that far back, but yeah, I tagged Kai on it and then Kai saw it. He goes, oh, wow, man. I've got to try that as soon as I get back. So he was all stoked. And then when Kai came back, you put Khan on the same board, the same thing. And it's hard to describe right now. We take it for granted that, what are you watching Tom Brady? I couldn't believe that's ridiculous. But anyway while I'm a big fan of the Tampa bay Buccaneers, so he's brought it back to my town. So he's like my hero. He was always a hero for me, but now he's like a super hero, but anyway, Comes back jumps on the same equipment and it's hard. Describe the first time you see a guy who's foiling and he goes, past the peak goes way out to the left, comes back across the peak goes way over to the right and keeps going back and forth. And you're looking at them going, what the heck is he doing? It's just, it was mind boggling to see somebody do that for the first time. And I was like, oh my God, what the heck is going on here? Maybe we have something here. And, Kai is just a freak. He was just doing stuff that was, unbelievable at the time. And I was just like, oh, maybe I should make a patent out of this. This is it. It was just like a revelation seeing something like that for the first time. Yeah. And that, the first foil I got we jet my friend, Jeff Chang, and I'd tried it on a kite foil at first, be behind a jet ski and stuff. And we were really struggling in same thing. Like almost killed ourselves, falling into the foil and stuff like that. But then when we got the first Chi foil, that was like, oh, this is so much easier, but it's funny because at that time, the Chi foils seemed like a huge foil, but now it's actually a kind of a small foil. Most people start on a much bigger flow. Yeah, exactly. That's a really small foil. Now, getting back to the story, how that evolved to your video. Okay. Kai was just riding in the waves that sugarcoat doing this stuff. Henry Spencer took a video of him that was like the first time where you see this going crazy. And then he starts going. He goes, okay. We got to, I got to talk to Rob. We got to put this on one of my downwind boards because we tried it on my downwind board, the same board that we were riding in the surf, and I'd go out there with Kai. He has his 12, six, his regular, Nash board. We're paddling down. When I cannot get up to save my life, no way, especially on a Chi foil. So he goes, Hey, let me try that. Give it to Chi and Chi proceeds to get up like seven times on the way down to sugar coat, like immediately, even on that standup board. And I'm like, the kids are free. He just paddles his weight to strength ratio is just off the chart when he's battling. So he's all over the place. We get all the way down to sugarcoat. He takes off from the outside, which is like at least a hundred and 150 yards outside. And he cruises all the way into the beach and it was like, wow, this is something he spends the next week, trying to talk Robbie into being able to turn one of his Nash boards and put a total box in it. So I go, okay. We'll do that. Just keep talking to Robbie. See if you can pull it off. Eventually Robbie gives him the, okay. Okay. You're going to do it on that board and blah, blah, blah. So we put a tunnel box in at 48 inches. Cause Kai says, that's where I stand. I think that's going to be the good place to put the tunnel box. So we put it in there. I get this text he's down at the Harbor practicing and he goes, Houston, we have a problem. And then he goes on to describe that I'm going plenty, fast enough to get foiling, but the tail is hitting the water and I can't get up just because the total box is so far forward, his tail would drag and bring him down again. So he goes, okay, let's put a tunnel box at 24 inches. Like it is on the other board. And w we should be able to get up and I go why don't we just cut the tail off, and see about it. Like in this video, you can see how I cut the tail off of that board. Put like little diamonds. Yeah. So the next day he shows up at the shop with the board, I said, yeah, we'll put the fellow box. And he goes, Hey, I think you're right. Let's cut the tail off and just leave the total box where it is. That'll give me less bored after he thought about it overnight. And then within about two weeks, he makes this crazy video of him just jamming down the coast on this. And one of the, one of the scenes from the video that really caught my eye was Dave Kalama. And Jr is his cousin are in a two man canoe, which is two man Outrigger, which is the fastest boat. Usually in Maui the pattern and he goes right by them and it was just like, oh my God, what is going on there? It was just amazing. It was like, oh, we've got possibilities now. Yeah. They always screws. That's the dream to be able to just surf the open ocean swells and just be able to keep going indefinitely. And then something that layered had always talked about, we always played volleyball and we were always around together. We always played at Brett's house and layered would always talk about that going. I think we're going to be able to just cruise for miles down the coast on one of these foils. And then, like 10 or 15 years later this is what we. Yeah. That's amazing. And then, yeah. And then what happened after that? Pretty soon after that, Nash started making foils as well. So how did you feel about that? I did not feel super stoked about that. And it was like, Hey, we've got it. All right here. You could just, we could build it for you to put your logo on it and you can go from there and then I could make some money out of it. And Robby was, he's always, do it all yourself and keep it inside the company. And they wanted to do it all ourselves and Mickey, he had told me one day he goes out, he really going to be bummed if we do this all by ourselves, because Rodney wants to do it himself. And I'm like I'll be bombed, but we'll still be friends. And I guess you did, you did that with star boards for awhile, right? You put the Starboard's logo on or co-branded with Starboard's was starboard logos as well. We had done a lot of them were just go foil and a lot of them were starboard Gofoil. So there was both of them were branded at the same time for a while. There we were in the early days we were connected with starboard. And then you got a patent on the, on your foil design. So how come you never, did you ever try to enforce that? I Obviously like now there's so many companies making foils. Is there any way, like anything you ever were able to do with that patent or was it just not feasible? He never really pursued it. If there was a lawyer out there who wanted to pursue it, and work at his, work on his dime and then split it, 90, he takes 90% of the profits. We get. Then we could do something, but it's something where, you don't really want to jump into that game unless, it's financially feasible. We've got patents on the patent that all kinds of aspects of, the surf foiling and stand up for healing. And basically as being, a new thing and, thickness of foils being thicker than the norm and all of that. So there's a bunch of aspects to the patent, but we never really pursued that to where it gets expensive, and you'd rather, nobody wants to take that on, and get their own money. You would do a 90 10 split, huh? Split. Get that out there. That would do it. Oh, rate is 8% is royalties that all the companies should be paying you, they could get 90% of the 8%, but yeah, that's just one of those things in the beginning, we went for that patent to, it was like, wow this could really be something big. And is it a utility patent or did design patent, do you know? I'm not even sure which one it is. It's the more expensive ones and that's a utility patent. That means that, that means it doesn't have to be like, even if it's not an exact copy, if it's the same concept and yeah. Basically. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we went for. And we have a big time patent lawyer firm that did it, but it's hard to enforce, obviously you have to prove that it's and he was going to chase it, on their own diamond set of you paying for these lawyers because the lawyers and all that gets expensive, we've got the patent and the us China and. Australia, we didn't pursue the other countries because you got to pursue every country separately. And then how, and then how did you, did it evolve? Like I know in the early days, like everybody wanted to buy foils and there, you couldn't just couldn't get them, like you couldn't make them fast enough. And like, how did you ramp up production and what kind of issues did he run into? Yeah, you're in the early days, you, haven't a lot of problems with how to construct this and how to keep it from breaking in me. I always making wind surfers in the early days. I really hated warranties that will end up ruining your business. You do all of this work and then you got to give the guy another board or fixes board or whatever. So in the beginning, we didn't even want to put out the product till we were pretty sure that we weren't going to break it. So that stalls your production and stuff. And then once you do ramp it up to get, full on production going, then you end up, you have to watch out that things are evolving so fast to not make too much of the, something that might be outdated by the time you get it, because it takes a long time for these factories to build our stuff. What happened with us, which was unique with us is that my two brother-in-laws build canoes over in China. My one brother-in-law owns the factory because he got burned by some Chinese factory he was working with. So he decided to do his own us own Chinese factory. And then he got asked to jump through all the hoops to do that. But anyway, they were making the canoes. And he makes a bunch of different models that you see around in Hawaii and the manager of the factory, my other brother, a brother-in-law Michael Gamblin is my other sister's husband that owns the factory. He's the genius behind, put it all together. He's the guy that I do all the CAD work with and building the foils and the wings and stuff. He's really super smart. And he's, can pull all of this stuff together. It has the drive to do it where people go, oh, wait a minute. That's way overwhelming. I'm not going to do my own Chinese factory. That's going to be too many things to overcome. But anyway, what happened was I had been building stuff in Vietnam. And it was getting to where it was hard to get stuff out of Vietnam fast enough. And I was seeing that these foils you're going to need a lot of these are going to need thousands of these things, cause it's in hot demand. So I asked my brother-in-law Michael, Hey, do you want to start building these at your factory in China? And I showed him the video of Kai and the 5 million views. He's oh my God. He just went by Dave Kalama and junior on the two man. Okay. We're all in. Let's do it. And that's how it started. And now it's a whole family business and we build all of the main hydrofoils in China at his factory. So I guess in the beginning, like I remember the first one I got it started to crack right by the mass of base, like between the base and the Tableau box. And then also on the fuselage. That's, those were the main points where a lot of. You had a lot of issues, right? Yeah. You have issues like that in the beginning where there's a, it's a process of trying to get your carbon fiber loaded, just right. The direction ability or, you're 45 degree angles and how much materials in there and, the compression, there's a lot of issues that you had to overcome. I like the first one I got we got one from the factory in China comes over and we had all of the fiberglass or carbon aligned in the wrong direction. And I snapped the front wing right off writing, riding. All of a sudden my front wings gone. And it's just a matter of, you've got to have fibers going the right way and the 40 fives and everything to work perfectly, especially with prepregs is a whole different animal where there are layers and layers put together in the middle. Okay. So they're made as a union directly. Think of it as the strands are uni directional. Like these are the strands are the carbon. Each sheet is like this, you can align it like this or whatever. And you cut these all, put them in the wall in a certain way. So there was a lot of learning curves to get, not all right in the beginning and how much should be here and how much should be there. And where are the weak points and all that kind stuff. Yeah. We went through all that too. So very frustrating to get stuff back that just breaks, right? Yeah. I know. Warranties. Yeah. And then again, then, sorry. And then and then what happened then? The develop, what was the development after that? Like how did you ramp it up and become a global brand. In the beginning, it was easy because nobody else had any foils. So we were, we went globally right in the beginning. And we were selling shoes couple thousand or 3000 foils in those first couple of years, just because we were the only guys who had foils. So that was easy. So then we got around worldwide, fairly easy in the beginning, then it becomes harder and harder because you've got, 10 guys get in, want to make foils. And you've got 20 guys who come in and then you got 50 guys. You've got people you'd never even heard of or trying to build foils. And everybody wants to jump in on this bandwagon. It's like the early days of wind surfing or stand up, everybody jumped into the show to try and be. So that makes it harder. So you've got to, you've got to keep up really good quality. Don't you don't want warranties to come back to ruin the business, but at the same time, you're trying to make faster stuff or easier stuff or, whatever and try and keep progressing is the way we try to do it over here. Yeah. And then, so you got into more high aspect, foils and fast, faster designs, thinner foils, smaller for us and so on. What do you, what are you working on now? It's like your latest latest designs and what's, what do you see for the future? What we're going to do in the future is we're going to try and weave the last couple of years, we've gone into speed and try to get faster and faster, and we've made a bunch of. So the wings to go a lot faster because in the beginning, everybody was hitting on us going, oh, your oils are outdated. They're so slow in this and that and blah, blah, blah. So then we worked on our speed. So now we've gotten to where we were like about the fastest foils out there. So now we want to try and get back to, without losing some of that, you'll have those lines of fast, easy foils to ride, but then something that is really easy to ride it, doesn't accelerate on the turn, something that's a little bit user-friendly for the intermediate type guys, the guys that are really advanced and ride. These are NL wings, which are super fast and, tourney and everything. But the the intermediate is get a little bit, shy away from that. It's we're going to make the GL is a really good one for winging it for the intermediate people, but I'm going to try for next year to make something that's super easy. So we're going to have a different line. We'll have three different lines, basically. So are you making a foil that's specifically designed for wing foiling or are they all all around foils for Steph prone, foiling, standup foiling and wink foiling, or depending on the size of the wing or like how, yeah. They all can cross over. So we're finding out that, you want one, that's supposed to be erasing foil. Okay. So we're thinking downwind or are racing for wings or or towing falls into that category. If you're in really big waves, you need some super fast and Then you have the other wings, like the NL, which are great for stand up. They're great for surfing the smaller ones, prone surfing, but they're really good for winging also. So it's funny how all of them, you can almost do every one of the sports on each one of those wings. It's just a different style of riding you have to do, or a different size riders, weight, might like the bigger wing where the smaller guys like, oh my God, I can't write that thing. I need a little tiny thing. But all of them seem to cross over. I can tow on, on different size waves on any of the wings I can wing on any of the wings. I need particular amount of, a lot of wind for the small toe wings, but on the Raceway. Like when I'm paddling downwind, a lot of the wings crossover to me, paddling downwind too. So there's, it's funny. They all have their moments and can crossover. Yeah. So I guess the same design just in different sizes works for different things. I guess when you're Don flooding, you probably needed a little bit more surface area, a bigger wing, to keep going. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Cool. Yeah. And then how did you get into wink foiling? What I know you were one of the early wing furthers. You were on an ozone and stuff like that. Posting videos of you riding at lanes and stuff like that. So how did you get into that? A wing foiling started with the way it started over here was flash. Austin was always tightened down there with us and riding. Type foils and stuff just decided to put together this funky wing thing with some windsurfing battens and some old kite material and just put this whole thing together. And he goes, Alex, I need one of your foils. I think I can get distinct foiling. And I'm like, what are you talking about? He goes, yeah, I've been hiding down at the sewer plant, try and testing this thing. So get him a foil on it. He comes up there, we take pictures of them. These are the first things we see of the new of evolution of Wingfoot and where it started. So we kite and rode this thing at the same place where Ken winners, right next door to us, he does all of his kite testing there too. And then Ken saw him one day and he's oh my God, what is that? I'm going to put that in production. I'm going to build a couple of those and we'll start doing experimenting with it. So Ken takes it from there and puts the boom on it. Cause Ken's an old time windsurfer and he just liked the book. And the very first wings that I tried were kin winners, duotone wings. And that's how we first learned. Alan could, is got me down there one day. We were down there with Alan at canal and he goes here, go try it. And then I proceed to get up and cruise around. After about 10 minutes I was riding it pretty well. Cause I already had, was really good kite for her. So it was easy for me to learn, oh, I used to be a windsurfer and then my wife tried it and stuff. And then from there it was like, oh my God, this is fun. So the first year I went to the Gorge with, it was maybe three years ago and I was on a, do a tone. And then I got to try ozone for the first time they had a couple ozones there at the show and they gave me one of those. So then I was using the ozone and the duotone at the hatchery and just having a blast. I was like, oh my God, this is fun. It's like the early days of wind surfing. Where were you working? Everybody was super stoked and feeding off of each other. And it's just a bunch of fun between everybody and they're all talking about, Hey, what are you writing? What I'm I learned this, what should I do? I'm having problems with this. And it's like the whole same atmosphere of the early wind surfing days. Yeah. And people are very open about sharing their ideas and their knowledge and what they learned is pretty cool. That it's not as close hold as in some other disciplines, I think. Yeah. And then what, so what are the like behind see those two boards and like what is, what are you working on now? What are you latest products and yeah. Tell me what you're up to. Latest thing now is we'll be getting in our boards from the kinetic factory. I worked with the kinetic factory again that used to build my kite boards to start making a wing boards. Their full sandwich, Connecticut is known for making. Some of the best boards in the world, as far as the factory goes, they're super solid. They, anybody who's gotten any new Jimmy Lewis boards in the last five years knows that they're built very well. So we get a container of those come in. Yep. That you can see the they've all the boards and the first container will have a total and a plate. There's all kinds of foot straps placements. You can see that has a handle there in the middle. And just the typical things that you need to have on a wing board, as you could see how the volume of this is in a pretty volume forward on my boards. I like to have a lot of volume up forward when I'm winging, because we're going shorter and shorter board. And you have a tendency when you're standing up forward, the board goes underwater. So like you come down off the plane and then all of a sudden the front goes under. It does a summary. So as you can see some of these, can you show us yeah. Maybe pick one up and move that chair out of the way. I'd show us the shape a little bit. Yeah. Let's look here. This is 105 liter board is five, six, and you can see how we have a lot of thickness up in the front of here. Cause we get the five, six you get up forward. If you have the traditional theater noses that look really cool, they sink on their water. When you stand up here, basically we move the flotation of forward. It's a little bit bigger, fuller outline up forward as compared to the tail. So it's reverse of what a lot of the boards are. That bigger tails, a lot of float in the back. I like to have the full rotation of forward. We've gone shorter and shorter, and it's easier to stand on something when it's like that this one you can see has the traditional, like wind surfing style footsteps. This is 45 degrees here, and I have one strap in the back. I like to ride wind shift and style. It's really easy to switch your feet and stuff. You go from strap. A lot of people are coming from surfing background, have a problem with switching your feet. And so then you have foot straps that can go straight. Like you're just going to go one direction. So it has the answer it's for going riding with just one set or footsteps, or you've got the list surfing style where you can switch your feet and go forward and start to learn how to go both ways. Because if you get in a problem where you're trying to get up and really like when TOSA. You're crossed up on your bad tack. It's hard to get up like that. And it's hard to go up wind like that. So if you do get into light winds, it's easier to switch your feet better to learn in the beginning, because once you start going just tow side all the time, you never switch feet again. The deck is pretty much flat. Or do you have like concave in the deck? Any kind of, I don't like on caves so much. I want everything to be a flat platform for my feet and nothing weird. And I don't concave too, because. I'd rather, if you fall on it, I want it to be flat and not have a little bit of a rounded edge to hit your shins or your knees or whatever. I'd rather we're getting back on is easier on a slide deck. I find it. And you don't hit your elbow or whatever on that hitch. Yeah. Yeah. Like I used to ride on Connor. Baxter's, downwind board, he's got this big scoop out, all those star wars at the Umar and I'd fall on that thing. I'm like, oh my God. And he has whacked myself with this heavy concave. So it's cut that system. I don't like that. So I figure if it works, don't make it all fancy. Like the same thing with the bottom sheets are real flat so that it has an easier release to pop up when you're planning it real light. Is it a, if slat all the way to the nose and you have a little bit of convex in the nose, it was pretty much flat. The holes in soft rails, the rails in the back towards the tail of the board would have been, it's a little bit round here and you have a little bit of a kick in the last, behind your total box and your plates. And can you show that the profile, the contour, like you said, it's a little bit thinner in the tail than in the notes. No. They're about the same thickness, but now are thicker in the front and thinner and the thickness keep about the same thickness. So don't go crazy with, making a super sick. I don't like the way that feels when I'm winning. I want a lot of float up for, because most of the time on these short boards, like this board is my four, six. I tow with this and I wing with this and can kite with this also. But even with this board, it was one of the things too, when you're out of your boards you want the bone flow to be about the same so that when you sinking it, especially on sinker, it seems evenly because more of my boards, I have a pretty big it's a little bit thicker in the front than the back. And I float like this and I go down and it's hard when you're sinking like that. Not really far forward and concentrate on the nose going down. So there's all types of, trial and error and into figuring out what really feels good for me. Always made my own board so I can go ahead and, make a board that week and test it again. But I don't make custom boards anymore for other people, but the family still gets nice. Thanks for showing us that I'm going to show the screen share again real quick. Oh, sorry. Let me let me go back to that. So are you going to show your bottom here? You can see all of what the, oh, you got the measurement for where to place the foil and the bottom handle. Yeah, I guess guide there. So like you use your, this is how far you are from the tail and the measurements. And then if you like your plate in certain position, you remember what your number is to go, okay I like it at, seven inches or whatever it is for the plate title of course goes in just one place. When you got a, a nice. It's nice to have a handle on a wing board because getting in and out of the water is much more for me. And then on the deck, you don't have a handle though. So I don't like the handle on the deck because when I'm stepping all over the place and my toe gets in there, I've had a couple of problems with almost breaking my toe, like having all the dash. Yeah. But then I guess when you're carrying them without the foil attaches, it's off balance, but you can, I guess you can still carry with that bottom, but you could still carry it. It feels a little bit nose heavy, especially on the bigger six oh board, but you can always, the smaller words really. Yeah. Not that hard to carry it. Yeah. And I was going to show the different sizes you have available here. I guess you have a 46 by 44 liters, five oh, by 87 liters, five six by 106 liters and then 600 by 134 liters. So four different sizes. And when are those going to be available? Next week, I think container arrives next week could be the following week. I don't know how much we get stuck with, trucking and customs in Honolulu. It's already in Honolulu. So I'm just going through the, the process of getting it over here. Nice. And then, oh, I think I had this on here too. So tell us a little bit about the co also making your own wings now, right? Is that Craig, is this one of your prototypes? This is one of the prototypes. This is the actual version of the three. Which will it'll have stripes on it. It's got all the logos and stuff, and I moved the windows closer to the middle strut on the production style, but I've been using this thing since I want to say February or something, it's the the quality of it feels really good. I haven't stretched it out, and it hasn't blown apart. And I put it through some tail this day is probably, a regular 25 to 30 knots. And just imagine some of the days where we're 35 to 40 and I'm still using that week. So they're built super solid. And what I like about my wings is what we did was make the bladders a little bit bigger to make them stiffer. So when your sheet in with these things are not moving all over the place, like some of the wings, we got a little bit more of a, it feels like a windsurfing sail you shoot in, and it doesn't move all over the place. Yeah. And that makes them more powerful too, I'm, the Armstrong rings are like that, that they're really thick flatters, which make it more rigid and powerful. It seems yeah. It looks like you made the wing tips pretty squared off. So you have less of a wing span to, is that one of the things you were working on or, just maybe talk us through the different prototypes, you try it out and what you've learned from trying different things. We did with this is basically our, we call it our elliptical style. It's more of a standard style, but we do bring the wingtips closer together than some of the wings. Cause you'll notice how on, F1 or Armstrong have pretty long wingtips and you have a tendency to touch those in the water very easily. So my wing tips are broadened together a little bit more on that. Ellipticals. So you got a little bit more cord in the middle. So think of it as a longer strut in the middle shorter wingspan, just to make it easier to turn without touching your tips. Then we have a square model, which is the one that I was writing at home keep. Or the one day you might've seen that with the square model is better for really light wind so that when you're, you get on those bigger wings and you're having problems pumping, to get up. So they like you're, you just want to get foil, like that one, that's the square model. You see how that one's way more square than that elliptical style you just saw. This looks almost a little bit more like a, that slick wing at a new Ken winners. S duotone one. Yeah that closer to a slick, whether you score off the ball just so that what I like about this is I do a lot of windsurfing style wave riding, hurting like that. When I call it cheating in, you can keep the tip further up out of the water, but the main advantage of this one, forget all this hotdogs and stuff that I'm doing here is when it's really light. When you have problems pumping up to get onto a foil, it's a day where you're out. It's Hey, I wonder if I can get foiling today, and you go to the pump, and you keep touching your tip in the water and it stops the whole progression of trying to get up. You got to start all over again. So the square tips are made for that to where when you pump it, it's easier to pop up the foil and have a lot less problem of the wing tip touching while you're trying to accomplish them. That's the biggest advantage of these square model. So the square models are made in the bigger size. It's like a four or five, a five, five and a six, five. Yeah, I totally agree with that. And that's one of the things about some of the earlier designs is when, you think you could use a bigger size to get it going in lighter winds, but then then the wing tips were so wide that you couldn't really create a lot of power with it because of it has, because it's like the wingtips is drag and you can't really bring it vertical. You give you that forward power, this just lifts up, but you can't really get that forward momentum with it. That's where that, I think the square design makes a lot of sense. So you actually have two different wing designs or is it just by size or how does that work? You can wing styles, but it's by size where they convert over to the other ones. So by elliptical side, Those 2, 2, 2 7, 2 7 is like a main state here in Maui. Everybody, when they get lit up over here, the two seven is really nice. I ride the three, five, and then the four or five. So those are the ellipticals. You got 2, 2, 2 7, 3, 5, 4 or five. Now the square model, like you saw in that last video is a four or 5, 5, 5, and six five. So it's more towards the higher end because when I, those ones don't loft is easy. They're a little bit more unstable if you're just luffing and want to cruise down the coast and, hi, I win. So the medical ones, I like a little bit better for that. And my feedback from my riders that, you've got to get it, some of the intermediate and beginner riders, because feeling stuff that's different than you and they get on it all the way out. This elliptical is way easier for me to. In handled. But when you get into that day, when it's six to eight knots and you cannot get foiling, like even my wife, she was, didn't like the square model, having all kinds of problems with it. And I'm like, I put her out in it's fairly windy. Then we have one day where it's not very windy. She goes out with the four or five elliptical and she kept touching the tips and she's getting all upset. And I go, okay, here now try the square model. She goes, gets right up. She was like, oh, okay. Now I get fantastic. So those wings you have available now for sale, you have them on Maui. No those are all prototypes as everybody who are having problems, getting wings, those will probably show up in September. If we're lucky. I said, yeah, we're going to start building them in August and we're going to ship them in September, then. Nice. Oh, my shipping, do they have to go in a container or do I get a good rate to air freight them then what we won't know until we actually have the product and see how you take the ship. Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit. The whole pandemic thing and like what, how did it affect you and your business? I know shipping has been a nightmare, like getting stuff shipped in containers and stuff like that. But other than that, like how did the whole pandemic workout for you at Maui? The pandemic here on Maui, it was we're out in the, to where, there's not as many people over here, they shut down the islands, nobody was loud and, people didn't want to leave because they couldn't get back in type of thing. So I was in Florida when all this happened, we were doing a tour over there and demos all over the place. And then they're like, Hey, they're going to shut down the state. We got to fly back to. On a mad rush to get back home. And then I stayed there for a, since last March. No. Did I go anywhere? I think I went to a wahoo last month when they finally opened it up to where I could go without all kinds of tests and get my nose probed and everything. I went anywhere. Maui is they closed down the beaches. We're not allowed to go to canal hall. They closed it all down and that's where we were all winging it from. But you're allowed to go to the Harbor. So you go to the Harbor and what ended up happening was everybody had nothing to do and started learning how to go when they closed down the canoe guys, because the six man canoe, as you're too close to quarters and they wouldn't let them do a six man canoes and they have all the lessons and stuff from the teaching and races. So they closed down. Basically the canoes were. The wing foiling, and then the wing Oilers just took over. There was no trap boat, traffic, and all, there was a bunch of wing boilers and all of a sudden you've got kids and grandmas and old windsurfers who had, and wind surfed in 25 years coming back into the water. And it's, it was just crazy. There's some days there was 50 or 60 people down there and it's still going on down there now it's started a whole, a whinging. This COVID started a winging revolution on a big community down there. Yeah, that's awesome. And then more recently you had that you had a gold foil get together at that at a big house over there. And I know my friend, Derek, Thomas Saki went over there and stuff. And talk a little bit about that. That was great. We do this usually once a year, we have we rent we have a friends that have the access to the house down. Yeah. And he lets us go into it for a weekend or whatever we're trying to do. So we do go foil weekend and i

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Aloha friends, it's Robert Stehlik, welcome to another episode of the blue planet show, which I produce right here in my home office, in the garage. On this show I interview Wingfoil athletes, instructors, designers, and thought leaders and ask in-depth questions about Wing Foil equipment and technique. I'm also trying to get to know my guests a little bit better, their background, how they got into watersports, what inspires them, and how they live their best life. I'm a visual learner myself, so I'm adding visual content that you can watch right here on YouTube, but you can also listen to these long form interviews on the go as a podcast, just search for the blue planet show on your favorite podcast app for the audio only podcast. These interviews are really long and unrushed, I just take my time and I really don't make them for the 50% of you that stop watching after 30 seconds. These videos are made for those 5% of you that watch all the way to the end. So I appreciate you guys, this show is just for you, if you are as foil brained I am, kick back, relax, and just enjoy the show. Today's guest is Gunnar Biniasch who lives in Fuerteventura on the Canary islands, which are part of Spain, even though they're off the coast of Africa.  He's been creating YouTube videos for many years. He teaches wing foiling and runs the North Shore surf shop in Fuerteventura.  We talk about is very international background, go over Wingfoiling tips for beginners, switching your stance on the foil. And I also asked them to break down the upwind three 360 spin or Flacka for me since I've been struggling to pull it off. The tips he gave in this interview really helped me personally. And I finally pulled off the move after talking to Gunnar. So, I hope you get as much out of it as I did. We also talk in depth about foils boards, wings and living a good life. So without further ado, please welcome Gunnar Biniasch.   Gunnar, welcome to the Blue Planet show. It's great to have you. I really appreciate you coming on. How are you doing today? I'm great. Thanks for having me on yeah, I'm actually pretty happy. Cause a lot of wind in the last few weeks a lot of time on the water, so I'm happy as can be, great. Yeah, I've seen some of your videos. Great. So let's start a little bit with your background. Where did you grow up and how did you get into water, sports and so on and how did you get to live in the Canary islands? That's long story. My background is a pretty complicated. My, my father's German and my mom's Malaysian Chinese I am. Unfortunately, I'm born in Iran, which always causes a slight issues with traveling around specialty to the U S and then I actually grew up most of my life in Indonesia. Wait. So you were born in Iran and wait, your parents are what are they, where are they from your parents? Again? My dad's German and my mom's Chinese/ Malay. That is so interesting. Okay. And then you grew up in Indonesia, most of your childhood. Okay. Sorry. Keep going. That's very interesting. Yeah. We moved there when I was like six years old and pretty much left when I was 18 to go study in the UK. And then wait, let's go back again. So how did your parents meet and how did you get born in Iran and how were you in Indonesia? How did you grow up and so on? I want to know more about all that. My, my dad met my mom in Malaysia. I think it called a loan for it. He was there for work. He was a, he was an auditor. So yeah, they met there had a bit of a long distance relationship for a little while. And then eventually got married and yeah, nine 1978. My dad got a job where he was sent by his company to Tehran. To to basically do the books there for the company. And that's where I was born. I think it was like a couple of months before the revolution there. So like after that we, my parents like were in Germany for about a year and then we moved to Taiwan for a couple of years. And then, yeah, when I was six, we moved to two. And where did you live in Indonesia? In Jakarta. Oh, okay. That's a big city. So you have a very international background, very international upbringing. Okay. That's why I'm German. I sound American and studied in the UK. It's yeah, you don't have much of a British accent okay. So you, when you were 18, you went to the UK and. Went to university there, or school or whatever. I went to university, I went there to study computer science and then also accounting later on. And while I was there I got, I started kite flying kites when I was like 10 years old when I was a kid, like my cousin got me into that. And then I took it a bit more seriously. Once I moved to the UK and got into power, cutting, like kind of buggy and of buggy racing. And through that, I stumbled upon kite surfing in like 99. And yeah, and then this was, I started kite surfing lost my parents that all went wrong from there. Cause that's when I, I started basically taking, thinking very seriously, started getting first sponsors and then also then moved in 2000. I moved down to Florida Ventura. To basically get more time on the water all year round. Yeah, I really haven't looked back since then. The law and career in guiding and now it's winging now. And how old are you now? I'm 43. Okay. And you're married, you have kids or? Yeah. And I've been together with Doris for almost 16 years now. We have one daughter she's eight. And you met her Doris in four different to her and or in the canaries, or did you move there? They met in Germany and we had almost five years of a long distance relationship. And then she eventually decided to move down. I think that was in 2009, I think 2009, 2010. And then how did you get into foiling? Yeah, I mean that, I, first time I got encountered foiling was 2005. A friend of mine got ahold of an aluminum foil thing, an old rush ramble job. And I tried learning all that and that didn't work very well. That was a horrible experience. It was really windy, really wavy, cold, and so on weather in Holland. Yeah, it didn't work quite well. So snowboard boots and water, it's just, yeah, it wasn't the best. And it we forgot about it for about five years and actually in 2009 at one of the races, or I just started with 2010 and one of the races I met a guy called mango and he had a bunch of Fort Hill files with him and they were it's called fiberglass, carbon jobs. And yeah, go on that. And then me and a friend ordered one here for the Ventura and we got riding on that and then pretty much got addicted very quickly. Also, basically both of us were very engineering based and we love building stuff. So we eventually went, wait, we gotta make this better. Also because that I want to travel with this, so we needed to have a foil where I could take the mask off the glider. So basically get rid of that whole bar system. So we quickly started developing our own foil stuff and I was on, yeah. 2010. In the early days of foiling, when I got into, you already had a lot of videos up on a lot of the foils breaking down the different foils and like your tech talks and stuff like that. So that was super helpful for me to understand how it works. And I guess you were already foiling before, like Kyla and he posted his downwind foiling video and all that, or, yeah, for me, I was trying, for me, it was good that he did it and all the work that that Alex did. And so on Alexa guara. Cause I was trying the same stuff just with the wrong equipment because when I basically also, my history has basically eraser, I've been kiteboard racing since the beginning, since 2005, doing the slalom kind of slalom and then the whole racing tour. So for me it was all I was going fast. So the foils that I was designing in the early days. Yeah, no, it was all the same. Basically all the foils that I was making were more for, going faster and, racing orientated. So when I started basically surf, foiling and winging falling, I was doing this on super fast, super small foils, which yeah, wasn't really great. There are a lot harder to ride when we first started foiling. Jeff and I, Jeff, my friend, Jeff Chang had a kite foil. That was, yeah, like high-speed super thin, super small. And we're in LA super long mast. And we were trying to learn behind the jet ski and it was like it was hard. I was like, Oh my God, I'm never going to learn this. So actually now when I look back, I'm amazed that I was actually able to learn half these maneuvers on the equipment that we have. We're on foils a room. They're like a quarter of the size of what we ride now for kites. I think the foil nut that video is a, an in square centimeters. It's something like 400 square centimeters. It's like nothing you're right now. So yeah, it was not one, not the easiest. So when the surf boiling came around and wherever I was trying to get it to work in the waves was convinced. It has to work. You have to paddle into a wave with a standup paddle with with one of these foils. It w it just was, it worked, but it was so fast. It's so unstable that, it wasn't fun. And it was, for me, it was great. Then seeing Kai on basically a big fat gold foil back then the stuff from Alex. And I was like, Oh yeah, Yep. That's the way go really big and go a lot slower and that'll make it all work on the waves for surfing and for some of the paddling. Yeah. And then what was the first kind of more, that kind of a foil, more surf oriented foil that you got and how did you get into that? Yeah, the first thing I did, as soon as I saw that video was basically call Alex and order like to go foils the re the original Kai wings. So they learned on to the Chi wing and now that's considered a small wing for someone, my size. It's almost kind of foils are those sides now. So yeah, that's the first one I had and then started on huge boards compared to what we use now. Back then I was on a hundred and back to my very first board, I started Sort of foiling on was I think 160 liter, like nine, nine, six stand-up or at CDF, some footage of that on their YouTube channel, beyond the channel. If you scroll up, like somewhere in the middle of those should go probably to video under videos. Cause there's just so many videos on . Okay. I see the high foil. Let's have a look into this one. Okay. So yeah. So talk about the early days of foiling with the Chi foil  was great. For me it opened up like a lot like of options, but when we were trying to surf well with the kite foil was the only time it would work, if you had almost overhead ways, we were on such a small foil. And obviously that was extremely scary. Like you're in this video, you got nice and let's say small and controlled waves, just a little bit of a bump that makes it fun to surf foil when it's about twice the size of that and the foils. Four or five times the speed. Yeah, it was scary. Plus the foils were a lot shorter. The kite foils. Yeah. It's very similar to how I started. I put a Kai foil on an eight foot standard paddle board and figured out how to make it go. Yeah. I've been foiling for, I think for seven years by that time. So for me, it was just about actually relearning standup paddling because I had actually started standup having back in 2005, one of the first guys on the Island. And I just got bored of it, like in a rich split with a kid because I had also a lot to do with the racing. So I didn't really have a lot of time to go stand up paddling so much. So I'd actually, before I started properly trying to make the whole software, the working and a stand up. And while I'm not counting, Flatwater paddling, but actually in waves, I just, it gets really full here. So it was just, that's something I've really progressed on as I should have. So with the foiling came along, it allowed me to go in spots where no one else was. So I met, I was allowed to progress a lot faster with with the soft foiling compared to with the normal stand-up paddling. Cause there's the, for example, in that video is actually just the offshoot of of the main sort of way spot in town. Then on a day like that, if you basically go across to the actual main wave, there's 50, 60 guys in the lineup waiting to catch a wave. So it's not that fun. So foiling made that a lot easier and a lot more fun in general, just to be out there, crash on the rocks. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, that's, and that's exactly how I started. And it was a pretty, pretty long learning curve, but super fun that, sorry, I got addicted to foiling it. But like with the advent of wing foiling, I tell people it's probably easier to learn foiling with a wing than foiling in ways. What do you think? Is that what you definitely. I'm on the teaching side learning to foil. Immediately in, in waves is probably the worst possible thing you can do. There's so many variables everything's out of control. You have to catch the wave, you have to control your speed, then you have to control the foil. And then if you wipe it about wrong, you're very likely to get pounded by your board or hit by the foil. Before winging, obviously when we had people who couldn't type or couldn't wind surf, we would teach them behind the boat, towing them, basically getting them to a halfway decent level of control with the foil before going anywhere near the waves with these guys. And now with winging, it's a lot easier. Cause now we've got a very controlled way of getting people on the water, basically sailing around and especially compared to kiting where the general issue is when people are not doing well, they tend to end up. Just like in the old days of, when you start to learn normal guiding way off, down wind, then you'd have to go and rescue them. Whereas with winging, you can send people out. And if you taught them how to basically displace up wind, it's just like a good old beginner windsurfing with a daggerboard. You can just, basically, even if you're not flying, you can keep up wind. You can learn slowly and just slowly progress your way onto the foil and get flying and then take it at your speed. Whereas most other foiling sports you have to get up and flying immediately, or else you end up somewhere else or it just doesn't work or it's no fun. Yeah. I was going to mention that too. Like when you in the early days of wing for the, you, I guess you worked together with ozone to come out with these instructional videos, Yeah. And like this one here got to over 250,000 views, so are very popular instructional videos. And I think they were very helpful for a lot of people to get into sport. And also I've been sending people to your videos for learning how to do it on a regular standup paddle board or, so can you talk a little bit about that learning first for, some tips for beginners? If somebody wants to get into Wayne for them, what's the best way to learn it, the most important part. And this is something a lot of people skip is to really learn how to control the wing properly. A lot of people go onto the water a little bit too quickly to just get away in their hand and you just go and they don't tend to learn how the handling works proper base. So it makes life a lot harder. If you can. Try to get out on a skateboard on land. It will teach you a lot about the dynamics of how the wings work and handle placement, which handles to use to go up when, especially for wind surfers, it's slightly counterintuitive, especially if you're here, like you're going on an SUV without a foil or any daggerboards in it. You have to be very careful what you're doing with the wing. Windsurfers tend to, for example, always just, open up the wing, shove it back and then hope it will all go up wind, which doesn't quite work. You have to combine it with the kite mentality of, okay, I've got the board pointing up within now. Not actually have to move the wing forward again. Position it so that the wind can actually still also pull up with once the board's done that and actually skateboarding with the wing will teach you quite a lot of those skills before you get on the water. And it's also quite useful for a standing up and Swan. If you just have that wing nicely under control, and you're no longer dipping your wing tips into the water. Because for me, that was the most frustrating thing in the beginning. On wing was knowing I could foil and knowing I could stand up paddle, but basically crashing every 20 meters because I dig the wing tips of the way of the wing into the water, just catapulting straight over. And that's because basically when I started winging I did the mistake of just saying I'm going to go straight on the water and I'm going to be able to do this. And yeah, it wasn't like that. It didn't, it wasn't like a long arduous thing, but for the first half an hour, I just spent a lot of time basically catapulting over the board because when the wing tip drags is for people to try to lift up their backhand to get it out. And then what happens? Is it just tips forward and makes it worse? So it's like almost you have to lift it up the front hand and pushed down with the backhand to get it, to come back. Learning essentially that, that counter intuitive thing is that if you want to make it go up, you actually have to push down and your backhand and things like that. And like I said, if you spend a bit more time on land, you'll learn that. And then you'll have a lot less of a hard time on the water, for sure. And like I said, in a really important skill to have is essentially to, when you're not flying is actually still be able to go up when I'm on the board. So I have a lot of people actually still now guys that have been doing it for a year are still, if the wind drops even on a hundred plus leader board, these guys are ending up miles downwind. Because they just haven't figured out how to actually just sit on, basically sit on the board or stand if it's a big board and just keep the wing open holder the slightly a bit more forward and that you can still sail up wind in five or six knots. Yeah, without too much. And I agree in the last interview, Glenn L said she was mentioning this kind of position here where you hold the wing a little bit sideways and that turns the nose into the wind. And then, so if you can keep that position where you have the wing a little bit to your side, that's that's a good point, or I think too, to keep your nose kind of pointing a little bit into the wind instead of just letting it pull you down when right. Exactly. And the second part is to actually get rid of that downward pull anyway. So basically hold it a bit farther forward. This video, the wind is light, but if the wind is stronger I tell most of my guys to hold it more for it's actually grabbed the surf handle and maybe the second handle on the strut to really keep it open. And it helps get much like nicer angles. You're not going to be going fast, but you're going to keep a nice upwind angle. So trying to basically displace with the least amount of power and not just shut the wing and try to get power to make it go up. Wind. So let's talk a little bit about, more about tips for beginners, because I know a lot of people that are watching are just getting into it too and just need help getting get, figuring it all out. What, let's start with the equipment. What do you recommend, if I dunno, do you teach other people how to, when foil it all and what would you, what kind of gear would you put them on to get started? Like I said, the first, when I do my courses, the first hour is typically somewhere in a car park or we have a nice hard area behind the beach, just about half an hour, just controlling the wing, like a three or four meter wing learning the basics of control and handling, yeah. It's just standing on the beach or something, no skateboard or anything. Yeah, exactly. And then after that, Get them on a skateboard. We've got these really large longboard skateboards, like dancers. So basically meter long and with really fat skate wheels, it's like all-terrain wheels and yeah. And then we send them off because of these large wheels, they don't get super fast, but they get moving, which gives them a bit of a parent when, and it gives them a good idea of what, how what's happening. And there, I progressed on to teaching them essentially. Okay. If you hold the wing slightly further forward on the handles is what happens when you hold it farther back. You also tend to teach basically what happens if you move the wing forward, actively, what happens when you shift it back? Hold it higher. And so on which handles do what? And yeah, so usually at the end of an hour and a half, most people on the skateboards are actually doing their first jibes. Some are doing their first tacks and around there, they're getting a real good handling for the wing, basically being able to turn around and that's when we go onto the water. And if I have guys who have had some foiling experience beforehand, we will typically then go straight on to a board, was a foil, something like around a hundred, 110 liters, depending on the person's weight and large foil, because pretty much sure that once they take off, they will be more or less be able to handle the foil flying. If they've got more than a year's worth of foiling experience, if they don't have any funneling experience I'll put them nowadays on an inflatable board with two side fins and send them out of that in flat water and basically get used to getting them used to standing on a board. A lot of the guys would. Having folded that also have typically no water sports experience or not a lot of it. So getting them some balance on a stand-up paddle is is essential. What do you mean by two fins? Is it like, are they like center fins daggerboard thins or more like just regular fins in the back of the board? They are about halfway up the board closer to the rails and they're like eight inch like sort of FCS. So that helps with, so you don't drift off, right? That's one of the issues like if people are using the regular stand-up paddleboard to learn is that there's a lot of drifting going on. And it's hard to stay up wind with a boy that only has fins on the tail of very. Exactly. And what's this type of board it's super easy to stay up when you get actually quite decent speed on those things. And also because they're quite large, it's very good entry for most people into a water sport in general. So they're learning what the wind is doing on the water and how the board's reacting. They develop a good sense of balance. And then typically once they're okay with that board, that's when we move them on to the foil. And they're again, very large foils in the beginning, around the four liter volume from the front wing. And then yeah, get them to go on that board. Same thing, teach them with a foil board, how to go up, wind, how to build speed. And then once they have that speed, teach them essentially how to put the board back down again, once it lifts off. So basically just, keeping your way forward using your knees to position your body farther forward by bending your front knee and put the board back down and well, basic foil teaching opened the wing and stop flying. And typically, the worst students I've had, they've still learned the foil within two weeks after doing a course, cause at the end of the course, because they can go up wind even without foiling. They're basically independent. So they're confident enough just to go off with their equipment and learn to fly by themselves because they know they can always just sail back without the foil. Yeah. And that's something I tell people too they spend like thousands of dollars on buying all the equipment, but then they're too cheap to take a lesson, so just by taking some, getting some professional instruction, it'll just make everything so much easier and quicker to learn. I learned it pretty much by trial and error, but it took me way longer than it would have if I had gotten a few good tips the way. Yeah, exactly. But each to their own and the coolest thing, or let's say for schools, that's a bad thing about winging is that it's a fairly safe sport to teach yourself compared to cutting or wind surfing. The wing is relatively soft. You're not going to smack your head in like with steering, with the master, the boom. And Yeah. They're not going to fly away like you can with the kite. It lends itself for people to, just take their time and go out by themselves. Obviously you learn a lot faster, like in any sport, if you've asked somebody knows what they're doing and can basically see your errors and correct you and get rid of the first bad habits and right at the beginning. But I find it's not as necessary with this sport. Yeah. Most of the people learning it are relatively coordinated, but I've also had people start from zero and they've learned fairly quickly. People have never done any water sports before, and they're still learning quite quickly because it just gives you confidence because you're not scared of the equipment as much as you are with a lot of the other sports. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And it's definitely I think Wayne filing is probably the easiest way to get into foiling. As I think anyways, do you agree with that? That's probably if somebody wants to learn how to foil, it just gives you so much time, maybe other than towing behind the boat with a professional instructor that might be or in the electric foil maybe, but to really get a lot of time on the foil wing filings is such a good way to do it. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, for, I wouldn't say it's like the, as that, if you're a teacher yourself and you're going to give yourself as much time as possible, it's definitely the easiest way to learn how to foil. Obviously both and the teacher is going to be the fastest way always cause it's a very controlled environment, but that always involves having the coach there and, having the boat for that. And then winging is the next best thing, because once you learn how to control the wing and like I said, stay up wind. You can teach yourself. The foiling, it's not that important compared to the wing skills. Cool. Let's fast forward a little bit to now you're writing obviously a much smaller board and you're on different equipment and I'm pretty impressed that you still it looks like you, you pretty much always switch your stance going either, either way, right? Yeah. That's ingrained in me from kite foiling and from kindful racing. Yeah. Obviously everybody's going to end up that way anyway. I always find it a bit of an excuse from people with, they tell me, it's no, I need that center strap. That asymmetrical center strap. I don't need the jive. It was like, eh, Give herself a year you'll figure it out a jive and then you'll either go strapless or you're old. You'll get like a view strap and, go into the more wind surfing side where you just have the advantage of having basically riding your switch and your strong side. Wow. And so that's something I'm struggling with is switching Stantec. I can do it on a bigger board with the big foil, but when I get on my small board, like small board with straps and the smaller foil and the waves and stuff I don't even attempt to, I don't even think about switching my stance. I just always stay in the same position. So maybe can you give some pointers on how to switch your stance? How the learning process looking basically rewind a little bit. Cause when I was basically wave riding, like surfing or kiting or standing up, I think I would never basically go on my switch side. Yeah, video this video. No, actually I don't never have gone around, but essentially you get into this mentality in the sports ah, I can only ride regular and I'm going to ride which from the left and the right back side and I'm going to, I'm going to right front side was weird from the right, but actually when Franklin came around, it wasn't comfortable in a lot of sort of way spots when I was kite wave foiling. And then I forced myself to, to ride the waves on my switch side. Coming from the racing background, I was able to ride the foil, switch or regular cars. You have to, you're not going to win a race if you're going to go side up the course. So for me, it was just basically just crunching down and saying, look, this next two, three sessions, you're only gonna ride on your weak side. You're going to ride the waves, basically left foot back, and you're just gonna do it. You're gonna crash a lot, but you're just gonna force yourself to do it because it can't be that hard. And because foiling doesn't involve a lot of strength and having to push really hard on it, black foot it's actually pretty easy to learn decent control on your switch side. So for me, it was R was already doing that with the  and the waves. And so when I started winging, it was normal. It's easier for me to actually ride front side, no matter where the wind's coming from. Okay. It's actually not, like I said, it's not a hard skill to learn. It's just something you have to force yourself to do, because everybody's got a, like a strong and weak side, but you can overcome that fairly easily on the foils. I think this one shows you switching stance quite a bit. So talk about that a little bit. Yeah. It's talking about just basic switching your feet. You'll see it now. It's most important part is that pump. I keep meaning to make a video on this and just keep having time for it. But when I. And when they almost never see any of the new guys talk about, is that initial pump, before you go into any maneuver, either a jive or attack or almost anything where you want to switch your feet. So walk us through it. So here at this point, you do a little pump with the boiler, with the wing, bam, I pump it, you see those popping up. That's my sort of pump and what that sort of does it accelerates the board, which gives more stability. But as I move my body weight forward to switch my foot that board is also trying to rise with me so it can take my body weight as I move my back foot forward. So I pumped, I stepped forward. Did I see the yeah. Moving your whole weight, body weight forward into those straps and those board positions and you quickly switch your feet. Nice. Yeah. And the most important part of that essentially is that pump. And when I'm coaching people mainly for foiling and so on know a little bit more for winging for their jobs is I tell them to do three pumps. And on the third one, switch your foot. You get into it just to basically count one pump to pump on the third one. That's when you basically stepped forward to switch. But basically before you attempt to do it on up on foil, obviously you want to practice it with a touchdown jive. Like you short earlier with the, on the kite foil, right? Like touchdown on the water, then switch your feet and then come back up again. I would tend to tell people just to go for it in the beginning, because if you get it wrong, you will touch down and then just don't panic. When you were touchdown. Most boards are good enough now that when you touched down, they don't stop so much. They'll keep going. So if you go for like your normal air jive, and if you do it correctly, if you move your weight forward, what a lot of people do in the beginning, which is slightly wrong is that they try to pull their front foot back as they're switching their feet. They tried this jump jump switch, which is actually really hard and actually most decent boilers don't do that. What most people do is actually you're basically, yeah, I brought my back foot forward. I brought my entire body weight over the front straps and I'm standing straight. So the worst thing can happen there. Essentially, if you take too long, you will touch them. Yup. The board one fly away, nothing will happen. You'll just touch down and then you can just switch your feet on the water. After that, So I would just say go for it. And as long as you keep your body weight forward nothing much can go wrong. Yeah. Because obviously if you put your way too far back then the foil comes out of the, the foil would just shoot up. Cause you have to be able to, that's typically why most people fail on a foiling, jive or an attack. They sh they shift their weight back because they've moved their foot back and then that board shoots away. It unbalances the board. But if you basically stepped forward or in front of the board, the foil is trying to lift anyway. So if you're over it yeah, I said, the worst that can happen with is happened as you touched down, it's a fairly safe way of doing it okay. You messed up, you've touched down, switch your foot and then keep going. Yeah. Whereas typically if you screw it up the other way, if you step backwards and you screwed up the oil flies up into your lines or flies in front of you and when you're winging. So yeah, so switching your foot is not actually not that hard to skill, as long as you as a few key things that you really need to do it. And it gets easy. The biggest thing, which people, when I explain it to them, they're like, Oh my God, why didn't I think of that is that you step forward, it's always stepping forward and not stepping back. Once you stop yourself from trying to slide your foot back and then slide your front foot forward at the same time, you just stepped forward. And not both your feet on the front of the board, it actually gets pretty easy. Okay. I'll have to practice it some more and it helps if you do it with a big board or longer board. Cause it's if you touched down, you're more, you're less likely to get stuck. Yeah, for sure. And you don't have to be as accurate with your foot placement and so on too, when you're on a bigger board and the bigger foil to a bigger stable foil helps a lot. Yeah. Like I, yeah, cause I can do it on a bigger board and the bigger foil, but not on my small board on my, yeah. I mean on small foils is actually, this is where balls come in because you have to do it fast. If you go in, if you actually go into your jive at full speed on a small foil, it'll just, it'll be just as stable as your big fo plus it'll be easier because you can actually correct the small foil better and it has less drag. So you get, you could keep up your speed easier too. Exactly. So the initial thing is that you just, you don't pussy out and you just go straight into that jive at good speed. And then it's fine. Oh, and another good tip is to jive into the wave because that will give you speed. Yeah. So especially what I do, if I'm out in six, seven nos yeah, the biggest screw up you can possibly do in those wins is the touchdown. So what I'll typically look for is a nice, like bump or a wave, and I'll jive on that and use that speed I can get from that wave to complete the drive. If I know I'm on a smaller phone, it's just really not enough wind to get going again. Cause a lot of times, if you jive in between the waves, then there's like you lose all your power that you get back winded and then you drop off the foil, right? Yeah. So basically just go straight into that face and it'll actually be a lot easier than if you did it in the flats. Cool. So let's talk a little bit about. How you ended up in Fuerteventura, I guess you were studying like computers, computer science or engineering type of stuff. So what, yeah. What made you decide to give up a career in that and and be a beach bum in Ventura? I learned to cut surf. That was the biggest problem. As soon as I learned to kitesurf, it was like it combined everything. I like, like speed and water, and being able to jump on land without killing myself. If you look at power cutting back then, and the pre two thousands, it was extremely dangerous. We were up, six, seven meter, foil kites jumping on land. And a lot of my friends got seriously injured. And so on. So for us, like water was like, Oh, great. Yeah, we can jump and if we screw up, it doesn't kill us and it doesn't hurt. So I got really addicted to kite surfing really fast. And then what's started as essentially my winter job here in Fordham, Ventura working for the flag beach center. Eventually the year later it was like, I'm just going to stay here. It's nice and warm. We've got good ways. And it's basically still Europe. Yeah. And I can kind here every day. And so how do you, so yeah, obviously you're just living the dream, this decided, okay, screw, screw that. And I'm going to live in a beautiful place. I'm very similar to you in that regards, but yeah. So how did you make it work? How did he make, how do you make a living? How can you make it all work? In the beginning, like I said, I was working for the flag beach center was like the main kind instructor there for a good number of years. And. Around it was, I started competing in 2000, like seriously, in 2003, I already had done some competitions in the UK, like 2002. And then in 2003, I started competing in the first peak DRA events. And then I think the German championships, I actually met some guys from Peter did kiteboarding like that. They were the first guys to offer me a proper deal as a rider. And so pretty much a year later I quit my job at flight beaches and instructor, and basically turned sort of full-time pro back then. And luckily within the designers, probably one of my best friends still he basically took me under his wing also. And, I was giving him the feedback on his kites, but he was also teaching me how to cue and these kites, how they're made. He pretty much taught me everything about the backend of the industry, supply chains, how cards are actually made, how serve plan works, everything the prepared me for what I do know. So yeah, so I was with Peter Lynn until 2009 writing for them and also helping them in the development for quite some time. And then, and in 2010 I decided to join . Initially that started up the fact that I just, I was sick of losing races to those guys with 19 meter kites. I was just basically wanted to see, plus I'm the boss army. And it was basically from the same home, Ty Tom design, and Germany's from Frankfurt. So we got along quite well. And then yeah, I was racing for them and I was team manager for them until 2013. And then yeah, I decided to say follow the money. And I went and did a year with gastro, which was not the most successful year. So also the time where everyone finally believed, Oh, great photo cards we'll win races. And I actually went to a tube cried brand, which was probably not the greatest idea. But after that I pretty much went to ozone after that pretty good five, six years with those guys. So it's a very interesting company to work with. But by the time I joined ozone, I had already opened my own kite shop basically here on the Island. Yeah. And also we, I had my own sort of foiled brand sort of the magma foils, which we tried to get working back then, which is a bit difficult from the islands here. And we had a bit of a bad luck when the production but also like in 2016, I started doing a bit of freelance design for foils, for for brands. So yeah, and now the way I earn my living is I have my shop. I actually took go over last year. I took over the North shore surf shop here. On the Island, he used to belong to probably the most famous German wind surfer around  his old Shaw. Oh yeah. So yeah, I been doing that, but besides that I've been basically freelance designing boards. Most of them you've probably seen from Indiana and I'm doing a lot of basically testing work for a lot of brands where their wings and their foibles. So some I can talk about some I can or NDAs, but and then also last year I decided to work with the guys from North, basically as a team rider on an R and D writer also. Cool. So pretty pretty interesting background there. So how many languages do you speak? Three and a half. Okay. English, German Spanish Indonesian sort of hangs on, but just don't practice it enough. So if you go there, you could probably speak home properly. Do you have any cool stuff? I see so many interesting toys behind you and your man-cave slip, but anything you can these are just some other flaws. All right. I typically tend to switch foils every day, but the one cool thing I have here is a mass from a guy called Kyle in the us, which basically when I'm testing allows me to not have a different mask for every foil company I ride. So basically it's a custom carbon mask and you can basically put different adapters on here. For example, this is the Moses adapter. And then if I want to ride a Northwell with it I just put a North adapter on it and if I want to write an Indiana foil, I put in Indiana doctor, I want, wanted to write an access book for the nexus adapter. So when I'm testing them and trying to figure stuff out, I basically removed the mask. This is the variable, ah, interesting. All foils, right differently, depending on their masks. Cause you've got so many different mask designs and I also like it cause it's a lot lighter than almost all the other carbon masks I have. Huh. Interesting. Quite like it, maybe send me that link and I'll put it in the description down below. If anyone's interested in getting a custom mass email or they sent me a proper, like he's got a new sort of stronger mask now for waiting you between too much freestyle and freestyle is never good for foils or for the boards when you land badly. So nicely, like stronger reinforced plate and so on. So for for the North kites, I'm not really familiar. North foils, the, what do you use for winging? What's your most, your favorite foil that you're using right now for foil? Okay. It depends if I'm either in the waves or if I'm freestyling, I have two favorites. This is the one where people are gonna freak out at me. So basically my favorite big wave foil is this low aspect, little aspect, super old school. But the coolest thing about the North one is the fuselage is only 60 centimeters. So it's short, right? And this thing's not slow. So it's actually, this is a 1500, but this works in everything. I've had this in super horrible trivial and really currently big waves. And I survived a lot better than I have with the high aspect wings of this. And I actually have a lot of fun. I have less, I ride this most of the time. If the waves are actually really good, cause it just really works. And I know it's completely contrary to where everyone else is going at the moment and it's designed as a beginner wing, but for waves. Yep. How well it works. There's definitely a lot of merit to having a lower aspects foils for I guess just control and like you said, like going through whitewater, certain things that they just don't drop off as easily, too. They're easier to, it's just a lot less scary when you've got basically an overhead wave breaking behind you and just, yeah, you hit a bit of turbulence and I don't care. Whereas with the high aspect, when you're like, Oh, I'm wobbling you to, so what am I freestyling? So for freestyling, my main way, I'm using it at the moment. It's actually two different ones for like lighter winds. I use the North, the  it's basically it's called the high aspect lane. But how much can you show the curve of the foil? It's your typical sort of downward going. Oh, as a little bit up turn on the tips, huh? Yeah. Sort of twist. Yeah. But works really good. I tend to ride this on the long fuselage. Actually, this is the 700, the 70 centimeter fuselage. I quite like it for freestyle because it just got a bit more acceleration and pop and pumps out of like the jumps a bit better. So if you landed slightly wrong and you still get up and pump it out with the performance, it has quite a bit, and it works really nice and normal wave conditions. You've got nice and clean conditions. But I tend to, I don't know if he said already, but how many square centimeters is the surface? Normal surface area. It's 1250 and it's projected 1230. Okay, cool. It's actually pull up the screen sharing again, is that the one you're using and And the most recent way video. Yeah. Part of it sometime in that video. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's the one I'm using. Yes. So yeah, I actually wanted to ask you this is the move I've been trying to pull off and struggling with the last names they keep. I don't know what, like the wing, I can't get the wing right on the landing. So can you kinda maybe walk us through this move? Step-by-step the Flocker or the upwind three 60, again the most important crux of this move initially is that you keep the wing low off the one side and really opened. A lot of people, tried to bring up the wing over their head way too early, and that's, what's involves you then turning it into a push loop and then crashing. And the other part is just after takeoff. What you really need to do is like when you you kick up, you need to twist the board first. You're trying to one 80 the board first, and then you look over your shoulder and the board will follow. If you try to rotate your body without twisting the board first, it's a, it doesn't allow you to rotate around far enough. Yeah. This right here, like right before you jump, you go down with the nose. And I think that's what a lot of people miss when they're trying to jump is like doing a little downward push. And then you really want to pop that for up at a steep angle, upwards, right? To get some air. That's foil jumping one Oh one. That's this, regardless if it's wind foiling, wing, foiling, or kind foiling any foil jump, you got to use the foil as a ramp. So you need to, if you want a nice big jump, you have to use a big ramp, which means get that nose low to the water. And then pointed up that's what's going to get you launched. If you if you don't do that, you'll just get into a flat it'll jump. It's if you've taken off a small piece of chocolate as compared to hitting like a two meter round so that's just your normal jumping. You should do that. Any foil jump you do is try to get as low as possible and then try to point out as aggressively as you can. The second part of the flux essentially is that twists is everything over it's like when you're up in the air, you need to basically flip the board over. You want to point that nose down so that you've done half the rotation already so that when you let your, the rest of your body follow that that rotation, that sort of the board is already around. So if you don't go around far enough, you tend to land off center. So here, the nose is up and then see, I've twisted the nose around before the rest of my body's come around. I've already gone 180 degrees with the board. And then as the board touches down, I've already gone, three quarters at least of the way around with the board. And the next sort of important part is that, again, as you're in the air, as you're rotating, you need to keep that wing stable off to the side. You don't try to lift it up. When you see people learning. The first mistake they do is they try to get jumped and then they lift up the wing over their head as they're trying to spin. And that actually does two things. It stops your rotation and also the wing will then try to lead that rotation. Which is a new trick in itself. If you're high enough, it'll turn into a push loop. It's it's like a kite loop with the weight. But that's not something you want to do when you're learning. This was scary. Yeah. And you don't like too that you don't want to jump too high to do it. Yeah. Actually height will help you, but it's important that you, if you keep that wing off to the side, so you could keep the wing more or less hot head level. Yeah. As you go around, you'll laugh and then you can just basically rotate the wing over it over your head. Once you've landed. If you try to rotate the wing over your head, when you're in the air, that's when it will slam you because the wing will go behind you and then dive straight down. And that's the most scary part. It, I broke three different carbon maps before I learned that. Because I'd just be landing like super hard, because I basically lead with the wing and turn it into a Porsche loop and then slammed the foil sideways onto the water. It looks easy here, but there's a few things, like I said, the most important part. If you keep your wing low, there did this slightly wrong. You saw that wind just hit that water quite hard. Yeah. The only ones I've pulled off where actually, where I hit the water, it seems to seem to help me. When I was able to pull them off, it gives you a bit of balance, but it's just, it means that you've raised up your hands before you rotated. Yeah. And in the end, it's not good for your foil or for your wing when you constantly whack it. Cause here you hit it almost like flat onto the water here. I just, I had it rotated too early. Like I tried to bring the wing around too early. See there's over my head instead of lower to the side. And that's what basically causes it to go into that loop. Interesting. And yeah, so the way to prevent it from going to loops you keep it off to the side and you really, you keep your back hand low, you try to push actually that back handled down as you're trying to bring that around that again is remember, like when you push down on that back handle, it causes the wing to go up. Okay. The reason that typically tends to drop down is because you've also then lifted your hand up as you've tried to bring it around. You probably see it there that I actually, as a, went around my, my, my backhand Rose up on that crash basically to watch my back hand. And now it's going to go up, you see how it's up and over. So you catch the wind basically the wrong way or exactly. So what remember, like when you're just controlling the wing on the beach, if you want the, the tip to come up, you push down and if you raise your bad count, the wind goes down. It's the same thing that applies here. So if you forget to keep your hand low and basically push that backhand away from you in that trick. And so she, my backend should extend out and it's hard to see behind. You can see they're pushing it down hard and then it just comes around. All right. Cool. Thanks for the tips. So good. Good move. I see a lot of guys, but I dunno, like I was watching balls. Mueller was probably the first to do that. Yeah. I like watching his videos too. I spent too much time on this one because I actually unlearned some of the other cooler stuff. Cause it's actually, this is a fairly safe one because you don't tend to hit the board when you screw it up. Whereas actually the first rotation I learned, which is don't have any videos of, and I'm actually at the moment gotten scared of doing it is basically the backside rotation to that. So basically jump up and you rotate the other way. Yeah. That's the hamstring killer. It's if you screw it up, you hit the rail of the board. Oh, all the time. And yeah. And what we've been doing too many of these blockers and like now I've gotten scared of doing the other one. So my, my goal for the next month, essentially just relearn all the backside tricks now. Cause they're actually harder. Yeah. Then in terms of the board you're using, do you have that in your man-cave as well? No, I'm the boss of the problem is I've had a bit of a nightmare last week. I've been trashed three boards, so they're all in repair. Yeah, rocks. The downside of when you ride without Alicia is that sometimes you forget the are conditions where you should have Alicia. So ended up with boards and the reef. But essentially I, I ride a lot of different boards. It's part of the job anyway, just to test as much as possible and also just trying to figure out what works and doesn't, but I tried to write a smallest possible as soon as the wind goes down, especially for wave riding. A lot of the videos will see me, like on the 33 liter, it's a four, four. Yeah. But then for freestyle, if I'm trying to take it more serious, I'll use actually larger board, like a 60 liter 65 liter board. Cause it's just a lot easier if you land that don't sink down to your waist immediately. What's your body weight. Can you share 87 kilos? So he's seven kilos, 60 liters is what you'd like to use. Okay. So if you could order a new board exactly the way you wanted it, but what dimensions in volume would you get? So if we're talking freestyle yeah, 60, 65 liters something like four, eight, four, seven. I've got the luxury of got guys like Indiana, which were pretty much, let me do whatever I want with my boards. So I basically here's the design make it and they're like, okay, And they'll do it and then we'll release it next year. So I have that luxury. So that's the freestyle board. You probate in that one video where I'm one, that's 65. That's the prototype for next year. So that's my freestyle thing. No gimmicks. No, concaves no cocktails. Just purely designed for performance to get off the water and then for wave riding. Yeah. I'll use anything that's small. At the moment, I'm just basically trying to get the North boards to work and figure out how are we going to improve those this sort of work. And they're very similar to the KT type style boards. You've got the cutouts in the back and the kick tails, which personally not a big fan of on caves on boards. I tend to like a board to not break when it hits the water. I wanted to glance off, which I know was not the most comfortable for the knees, but I just. I like the fact that boards don't try to stick to the water when they touched on after Jones. Just seeing. Yeah. I was talking to the wild about that too. He, and he says, yeah, he likes the boards that have more of a soft, softer bottom, a little bit convex, or just but yeah, when you touched down on the water, they just handled more, they're more neutral than having like hard rails and sharp edges and concaves and things like that. Yeah. I, sharp edges I think, are quite useful for winging cause they prevent this, the side slip of the board. Depends where you put the hard rail, like on my boards, I tend to like to have that transition from the bottom onto the bevel, quite sharp because essentially if you're out in six, seven knots, that sharpness allows you to stop that sideways, drift a bit and still allow you to displace back. Whereas you have a very round shape, which actually lends itself better for freestyle. Cause actually the easiest board you can possibly learn, like the three sixties art is an inflatable cause they bought the fat round nose with basically no sharpness in that reel whatsoever. And those you can get almost completely wrong landings on and you can still slide it around really easily if Congress forgiving. But the bad side of that is in those conditions where you need that board to display soft wind. It's not going to do that with, without some sharpness on the rail. So when you're taking off it, like in light wind, Do you think you're like, that's something I've been wondering. Do you use the speed of the board to get planing and then lift off? Or do you lift off with the foil before you even get up to planning speed? No. The biggest revelation to me was actually, it was the beginning of last year is taking one of my old Kifle race boards and those big 90 liter tankers, 70 centimeters wide. I took that and I took a wind surfing foil and a bottle of that. And then that got going so much better than anything else I had. And down to the fact that those boards is designed for acceleration, because the problem with, if you take like an sup board, sure. They pump up easily on the kick tail. They allow the board to rise up, but as you have no apparent wind. The wings we have are just not as efficient as a kite or windsurfing sail. So you'll pop yourself up and essentially immediately back wind your wing because there's just not enough apparent wind on the wing to work. Whereas if you get a board that can actually pick up speed with very little resistance, by the time you get up on onto the foil, there's enough apparent wind for your wing to actually start engaging in pulling. So like six, seven knots having a board that when you pumped it once would basically lurch forward on the water, like a meter and a half. He did that three times you'd cover like almost a 10 meter distance, and then you'd have almost five knots of apparent wind. And all of a sudden the wing is up and you're going, and you're going with no wind whatsoever. So that's why on my own boards that I prefer. You won't see any concaves or any kick tails or any cutouts or anything. Cause I like the, having that maximum acceleration at the beginning to get the foil and the wing to work together quickly. Do you have a video of that on your channel session? Log number four, a wind falling old race sports. Okay. Okay. So tell us about this board that you're saying planes and really light wins, right? Yeah. I, in like the one I'm on here on this video is an as a team event, this was probably the best, most expensive race board you could buy back in 2012. Is this for kite racing or tide racing before foiling started? And I basically have, I think it's the Moses wind foil set up at the bottom of this here, it's fairly windy when I, first time I tried it, but these boards are designed to actually have a V more of a V-shape in the back. So it slightly convex in that sense and really play and yeah, they have virtually no resistance in the water. So when you pump, they just basically start planning. They just lurch forward, which if you put a foil on the bottom of it is great because they'll get the foil up to it's essentially flying speed very quickly with very little resistance. So that's a good tip. So basically if you want to get going and really light, wind, get a board that, that just planes easily and obviously a little bit longer. Good, good. The is not that long. It's a six foot board for theaters, but Because I remember this is 2019. This was actually pretty small for most people right back then. And I think the standard back then was like people in 120 liter boards when they were starting. But the concept scales down quite nicely. My, my 60 liter board is basically based on the exact same concept. Your maximum volume distribution is right onto your front foot slalom, solemn type rocker lines go broker line. Yeah. And like I said, the most important part is to not have any, anything that drags on the bottom of the hole. It's like probably the worst culprit for Reedy light wind winging is probably the cut-out cut out, works really well on a planing board. Typically over 10 50 knots where it actually starts basically, creating some air bubbles. But for those just displacing speeds that we're at to actually drags quite a bit until you get up to a certain amount of speed. So it just costs more energy to get a board like that. So if you extend your rail along by not having anything cut out of the bag or any sort of kick tail, it basically allows the board to just get onto that sort of acceleration very quickly without a lot of resistance. Yeah. I've noticed too, like when you have a flat tail, it allows you to push off the tail a little bit to lift off, right? Like you get like actually forces the board forward more. Whereas if we have like our standard sub kick tail thing, when you kick the back, the board rolls up right. And pump up on the phone a little bit earlier, it seems like great. Yeah. It does essentially is engage the foil. And then for example, that works okay on like really big files. But especially now that we're on high aspect, foils, actually real high aspect foils where you got fun, not a lot of surface area and quite it'll they'll stall. If they, if you put them at a too high angle of attack, they'll stall out. So it doesn't help you. If your board allows you to get it at this angle and a shove it up in the water, as soon as you can flat things going to go, I don't have enough speed and you drop off again. Whereas a flat tail board, but it does as soon. Yeah. You'd actually over kick the back and it goes forward. The fact that tail is now blocked, it will actually force the board down. So any energy you've put downwards is actually going to be converted energy. Intercise you're pumping you accelerate forward. So all your energy is actually going into forward momentum rather than getting you up. But especially high aspect foils. They like this. So they'll get to speed. They'll engage. And then by the time you rise up, they are at a decent amount of speed to fly. Interesting. Yeah. No, that makes sense. I like that concept. And then you don't think that gift flat tail gets in the way sometimes like just drags in the water. I guess it depends if you're on waves or just, that's not my experience. Yeah. I ride waves with flat back boards. The only thing that sort of does drag, if you don't have a very wide board, but if I take my 60 liter or 70 liter board on it, two waves, I can't carve as hard because I've got almost, yeah. 15 inches of tail and that'll drag 60 liters. So if I try to Carhartt that rail is going to touch, but the back I've typically not touched, it's got to realize if you don't have a kick tail, you don't have all that extra tail in the back. You can position the foil a lot farther back towards the tail. So that. Essentially geometry where your foils flying and you've got something behind your foil that could touch the wave. It's not really an issue there. Okay. So actually, let's talk about that a little bit. Obviously having the wider square tail is as good for beginners because it's more stable and so on, but then yeah. Having like a more like a pin tail type shape, it just really makes it easier to carve through tighter turns or be on the way it's being more in the pocket without touching. Yeah. Or essentially the future will go and like more of a dynamic level of shape where we won't have a lot of bevel in the front of the board, but they'll tightened out towards the back where we've got quite a lot of bevel in the back, and that will allow hard carving over the tail and you still have enough flatness or around us in the nose that, if you do a jump or something that it doesn't attach, it just bounces off the water and allowing for easier recovery. I actually, I think I saw something from day from Dave Kalama. That looked pretty interesting. I think one of his downwind boards he's got like that type of tail shape where it's completely flat. There's no more Tictail, but his bevel radius cut SIM quite harsh towards the back. So if we start specializing more into sort of, this is our wave boards for winging, they'll start, tend to end to look like that sort of like that various sort of sharp. Bevel towards the back where you're taking all that area out where you don't really need it for wave riding. And then for freestyle, you will still need that wider back. It's essentially like in windsurfing where it will essentially have specialized wave wing boards and freestyle wing boards and speed wing boards and whatever else. Yeah. One thing is I find that board design Ferber design is constrained a little bit by the plate Mount because you got that those two flat boxes that basically force you to have a flat section in the back of the board. Whereas if you had a Tuttle or whatever you could have like you said, you could bring that thing right up to the very point of the, exactly you have to get out of the V. That would be for me personally, that would probably be the best interesting thing, but not another issue is actually you do lose a lot more if you don't have the tracks. It's having that adjustability between foils goes the biggest issue for, for me, if I didn't have, if I had like only a Tuttle box would be, I wouldn't be able to write as many files as I do. And there's a huge spread. For example, actually my favorite of all times, like this thing here, which is the Moses thousands, actual high aspect, wing aspect, ratio of 10, but it's also got like a, more of a K-12 geometry. So the mass is actually really far forward. It's close to the front wing and I have to ride this at least five or six centimeters farther forward than I ride all my other foils. And then not being able to move that around would be like, I have to have a different board for every different style of a foil that I ride, which is just not practical. Yeah. Cause if it was too far back, you basically can't put your back foot back far enough on the board to, to control it, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Also, the boards all work, with the rocker lines we have at a certain foot placement and there's no point of moving around too much or else the borderline leader, if you're too far forward, it will start breaking. If it's too far back, it'll always tend to do early. So yeah, having the tracks is good. The actual thing is there, isn't a huge amount of gains from having a little bit of Wii or having just a tunnel the actual sort of drag effect or the Quanta effect doesn't scale as as aggressively as most people think. Cause I've raced with. Huge adopter pedestals, like total box to play adopters, for sure. Like massive. And you would think they dragged like tremendously, but compared to a normal Tuttle, it drags a little bit, but not at a really noticeable level. So for me, for example, when I started using the gophers, that's how I did it. I, my guys are all had that big, massive aluminum adapter on there, and I still got going on small waves. It didn't drag enough to actually have a big detrimental effect. So most plates don

Part 2 of 2. If you missed it, go back to last week's episode where we dig into the journeys of hip hop journalists-DJs-political activists-college professors Jeff Chang and Davey D Cook, authors of Can't Stop Won't Stop: A Hip-Hop History. In part 2, we dive deeper into the political and social context that has driven the worldwide explosion of hip hop culture and how it continues to impact politics. Click now for great hip hop stories. Make sure you pick up a copy at https://cantstopwontstop.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Part 1 of 2. There's so much good stuff in this interview we had to split it into two parts. Jeff Chang and Davey D have written the definitive hip hop history. They should know. They're both hip hop journalists, and DJs, and political activists, and college professors. Dave has been tearing the Bay Area airwaves and the internets since like forever. As we discuss, his charts and playlists played a big role in spreading the knowledge of underground hip hop around the world. Jeff was a founder of the SoleSides Crew responsible for bringing us artists like DJ Shadow and Lyrics Born and helped Josh get his first job out of college. So there's that. Our interview tracks the development of their careers along parallel paths before converging on the re-imagining of Jeff's book — originally published in 2005 — for young adults. They may have cleaned up some of the language, and also added some pivotal stories from hip hop's evolution from then until the present day. In particular, the new version expands on women's role in hip hop as well as how the culture has spread to literally every corner on earth. We also uncover some things they learned through the writing process, and how they leaned on each other to produce a product that's truly inspiring. Make sure you pick up a copy at https://cantstopwontstop.com Check out some other links mentioned in the show and learn about the authors here: https://www.instagram.com/rockyrivera/ http://jeffchang.net http://daveyd.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Whether it's swimming with sharks, wing foiling in big waves a day before giving birth, or "toiling" on smooth North Shore walls with her smooth and flowy foil surfing style, Glennel Jordan lives a full life and openly shares about her background, surf foil and wing foil technique and equipment, her Macaw, her husband Zack and baby Raven, adventures, stories and how she keeps a positive outlook.   Wing Foil Show transcript: Aloha friends, it's Robert, Stehlik, welcome to another episode of the blue planet show produced right here in my home office, in the garage. On the blue planet show, we talk about wing foil technique and equipment, and I'm also trying to get to know my guests a little bit better, their background, what inspires them, and how they live each day to the fullest. You can watch these long form interviews on YouTube, with video, or you can listen to them as a podcast on the go, just search for the blue planet show on your favorite podcast app. Today's interview is with the awesome Glennel Jordan, she's amazing. She actually Wingfoiled the day before she gave birth, she's going to talk about that in the show.  She just has a real smooth foiling style and she credits it all to spending a lot of time foiling.  Her husband is also a fanatic and they're a super cool couple, right here on Oahu. And without further ado, please welcome Glennel Jordan. Glennel, welcome to the blue planet show, it's really great to have you here. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks for joining me, tell us a little bit about your background, like where are you from, where you grew up and then also how you got into watersports and board sports and so on. I am from the place where there's lots of water, Las Vegas.  The ninth Island and yeah, I grew up in Vegas, so I had no experience besides my swimming pool with water. My mom was in show business. She was a show girl. So I have the opposite background of most people in surfing. And then we moved to Malibu when I was, let's see 13, I believe. And that's where I started surfing Malibu Surfrider beach, the epicenter of surfing in Southern California. And and then when I was 15, we moved to Maui. So I finished high school in Maui and that's when I really got into surfing at Hookipa after high school, after school. And yeah, and then I, once, once I was in Hawaii, I was like thinking where I'm going to go to college. And a lot of people in Hawaii that grow up here, usually getting out of the state to go to college. But I decided I love the islands. I love Hawaii. And I love surfing. I love nature. So I knew that I wanted to stay here. So I moved to Oahu for college and went to Hawaii Pacific university. And I've been on Oahu ever since. Okay. So you've been here since you're 15 years old in Hawaii, first Maui then? All right. Yeah. So 20 years, I'm 35 now. Yeah. Yeah. And I I've lived on North shore the whole time. I had a friend that was living on the North shore and I was like, Oh, I'll just live with her. She had an extra room and that's it. So I had moved to the North shore when I got here. And then surfing ever since, and just getting into all the different ways to enjoy the ocean up here. If there's an option to enjoy the ocean on a certain kind of board, I've tried it, I've done it. I've gone into it and then maybe I've stopped doing it. Yeah, I love it. I can't, I probably will never live anywhere else. I can't imagine it. Yeah. Oh, so your mom's a Vegas or was a Vegas show girl. So you never got into that. No. She was she was a dancer and everything, and she was very specific about not giving me any dance lessons or singing lessons. She was like, you are going to be a smart business person. Yeah, she wanted me to take the opposite trajectory and I certainly did. I, I studied finance and business and I'm a financial advisor now. So yeah, you got an MBA as well, right? Yeah. MBA in finance. And she just didn't want me anywhere near that industry. She, saw that long-term, it's like really hard for people to build a life and a career, out of show business per se. Yeah. Yeah. So your early childhood memories that got you into the sport, was that in Malibu when you learned to surf or can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah. She, I remember my mom picked me up from the airport after I was seeing my grandparents and she said, guess what? She's we were like inland if a Malibu for a little bit, but she was like, guess what? We're moving to Malibu. And she had already bought me a surf board and this, our board was in the car was a Stuart longboard. And I was like, Oh, okay, here we go. And so as she's I got some lessons from some guy at Surfrider Malibu, and then that's where just took off from there, catching my first waves over at Surfrider and I just. Yeah, I've just been drawn to it. I was never a team sport. I'm an only child. So I noticed a lot of like only children kind of gravitate towards like solo sports more. I was never really into team sports. So I really liked the, the solo illness and like the being by yourself, the meditativeness that surfing is when you're, by yourself, in the ocean with your own thoughts and your own capabilities to get, put you in and get you out of situations. So I really, I was gravitated towards, like how difficult surfing can be, when learning surfing or learning any new sports in the ocean. Yeah. And then how did you get into foiling? So my, so I met my husband like 10 years ago and he's. He's one of those really kinds of people that is how do I describe it? He's just, he reminds me of an older version of Kane where his brain is like, always thinking of so mechanical and thinking of like different things to do. And like just expanding like what you can do, even if it seems like difficult or impossible, he's always come coming up with ideas on things that we should do that a few years later, like everybody's doing it. And he's, he got me into dirt biking and kite surfing until five years ago. He he's look at these videos of, people foily, but actually in fact, like 15, 20 years ago, no people were Tofoya late. They had these old foils and we were, we didn't have a bunch of friends that used to do this old, this foiling, like from a long time ago, these old Hattie foils where you're like, boots, you're, you're strapped into these boots, it wasn't very attractive at that point. But five years ago is when he started, foiling just started with a lot of some of the professional surfers, like Kailani. And he's- we need to do this! And I was like, I don't know. I really liked surfing the way it is, going out on my gun when it's bigger or shortboarding, and I'm like that just, I don't know. I wasn't sold on it at all, but he just went ahead and he bought foils from this kite surfing company. And they were like these big, heavy foils. They were like, they were so heavy. And I can't remember the name of it. You said it and they were so happy. And I was like, I'm still don't know about this. And We have a jet ski and he was like no, it was really great. We got to do this. And we went out so many sessions trying to figure out foiling on these big, heavy. And most of the time we did not do that well. But we had fun with it. We laughed about it. We enjoyed how difficult it was and how bad we were. We just kept doing it. And and then the summers around here on the North shore of Oahu can get extremely hot and extremely flat. And you can spend your time in the mountains, like mountain biking or dirt biking, but I decided I wanted to like why not, I'll try and bring my foils down to the beach and try and foil. And this is when no, not really anybody else was foiling over here. And I would just go down to sunset beach and I used to started teaching myself to foil on these big, heavy, clunky foils. Yeah, like three years ago, I think. And I slowly got into it, I've been, I like, I spent so many hours surfing in the water. I'm really good at paddling and catching waves. So it was I caught onto it pretty quickly. My husband, not so much, he hates surfing and crowds. So he's, he doesn't spend a lot of time like prone surfing in any capacity out here because it just it's gotten really crowded out here. So he didn't really pick up on the prone foiling as quick as I did. But no, I really enjoyed it. I really just enjoyed how difficult it was. I know that's weird. It sounds weird, but I like it. I enjoy the the challenge. And everybody else is longboarding and I'm like, I'm going to do this foiling thing because it's fun when I make it to my feed. I'm able to glide a little bit. And yeah. And then, I don't know. I think the next foil we got was maybe an Armstrong. Like I, it's all kind of a blur, the whole learning process. So I'm just scrolling through your Instagram account here on Instagram, your ocean, baby ocean underscore, baby. And this is some older stuff, but I guess you had, you got a baby Macaw. We got it from an egg and we put it in an incubator and we hatched it. Oh, wow. Yeah. And we live up in the mountains on the North shore. And so she was a free flying and this is another one of those crazy ideas. My husband has more than I'm not really sold on this idea of, he just goes out and does it anyways. So he brings us MCI and home. We had shit, we raise this baby in the car and when it starts flying, we decide we don't want to keep it in a cage because they're like so magnificent. And we're like, it's going to be our free flying Macaw. And so we let it outside and it's just like flying all over the North shore. It all, it came home every night. Wow. Yeah. I came home every night. It slept inside. We had a perch for it and its own room. And like a ma I swear, half of the North shore knew this parrot. Her name was Bob Barela. And and that's right when I was getting into foiling with her. And we had her for about two years and she went to everybody. She visited everybody that lives up in the mountains, on the North shore, the whole neighbor door. She just land on everybody's patio and talk to them. It was really stressful dogs, packer, but she ended up passing away. After two years, she did decide to sleep outside one night. And in Hawaii we do have, a month out of the year that it does get really cold up in the mountains. And I she passed away in a tree and overnight, and I think she got hyperthermia, unfortunately. Yeah. And we were never able at, when we had her, it was like having a child. We couldn't do anything late at like into the afternoon hours because we needed to be home to make sure she came home and, get her in the house and get situated. So we always say that I probably wouldn't, we wouldn't have become that obsessed with foiling if she was still alive, because, with having a child, we were like paid so much attention to her. And it was like, so heartbreaking when we lost her, we were so crushed. And the first thing we did the day we found her, cause we were just like sobbing and we were so upset. And the first thing my husband said is, Hey, let's go towing, toiling, toe foiling, make the ski and go out because we haven't been able to, stay out until dark before. And it was like our way to heal ourselves. And that was exactly what we did. We loaded up the ski and we went toiling and and then it just became this obsessive toil craze where we were just going out all the time on the jet ski toilet. And I, I. I'm pretty sure. My husband coined the term toiling. So is actually your husband's Zach that got you into foiling. He was like, yeah, but then I like progress because I surf so much more than him. He's more into dirt bikes and now he's trying to keep up with you, huh? Yeah. So for, in foiling, like I progressed so much faster than him. So then I became obsessed with it, but he really enjoyed it because it was a way for you to go and get in the ocean where we weren't, in all these crowds you could go to places that weren't the wave wasn't that great. Or you could be inside of people and have fun and didn't have to deal with the crowds. And so that was a major game changer. Okay. So that picture on the left. So we took our honeymoon and into the mental wise can Dewey. And if you've ever been there, it's some of the best. Finest easiest waves on the plane. And at night it's you're certainly like your dream. And so we're planning this trip and I'm so excited and he's Oh, we got to take the foil. And it was like, you're crazy. We're going to the best waves on the planet. And you want to bring this clunky? I was like, I was so mad because I didn't want to bring any boards. I just wanted to use their boards down there. I didn't want to deal with traveling with boards and he's no, we're bringing it. We're bringing it in. So we bring, our big foil board and our big foil to the best waves on the planet. And we ended up having so much fun over there because the owner of the resort let us use the ski. And so we were like towing in, into foil ways over there. I think if you scroll up, you will see my first, some of my first toe in waves were at Cannes Dewey at this place called four bogs. I don't know when and you brought your bird with you? No, we face time, sir. It's so cool that she could fly for you and every story, right? That's so cool. It was so cool. And it was so much education having a, your own McCall like that, that I realized that parents shouldn't be held in captivity. They shouldn't be pets because there's just such smart, intelligent animals. And that people can never give them the life they deserve. They need to be out flying. And so now I'm like this huge advocate or parents shouldn't be pets and I'll never make that mistake again, taking them a call. So the video are you talking about? Is that one of these here? I think it's up actually put, ended up posting it a lot later if you want. I can Should I let you take over a baby. As an egg, basically, you got, so you were the parents really before the birth. Okay. So tell us about this wave. So this was one of the first times we tow foiled was in canned Dewey on our honeymoon. This was like one of my, what is this? 2018. So what's that three years ago, this was at four Bob's, first learning about tow and foiling or toiling and what a magical place that places can Dewey. This big board, this big clunky foil at Yeah for Bob's, which is like this amazing. Right-hander like super easy. Every wave is exactly the same. And yeah, by the, I think I think I kinda got the hang of it better than my husband at this time. And I was like, Oh yeah, now I get this, you just ride the swells. This makes perfect sense. And my husband is such a Motorhead, so he loves things. Like I said, he's more of a dirt biker, but he loves things with engines. And so every moment's notice we were free, he'd be like, want to go on a jet ski, you want to go toilet? I'm like, geez, like you want to do it this much. And he's yeah, of course. Why not? And motocross to you, you were doing a lot. Let's like we did trials. So motorcross is you have this big bike and you're like going around a track doing jumps. So we do Trials, which is a dirt bike with no seat. Again, like he finds is the weirdest hardest ways we can do activities. And he's that's what we should do. So we have, we were students way down here. See how obsessed I got with foiling. It just took over my Instagram. Yeah. You post a lot on Instagram. It's just amazing. Like how many times a week do you usually post? What do you say? Like honest every day. It depends what I'm doing. I just friends with people that always take pictures and it's so cool. It's such like a, a memory bank for yourself where, we're only going to be this young one, so might as well. I can't even find my trials pictures anymore, but they're basically dirt bikes with no seats. And on the North shore, the mountains here, the dirt biking and mountain biking is as good as the surfing is, it's like the best in the world. And trials, bike, enables you to go anywhere basically where big motocross bikes can't go. And I can't even find them anymore. Oh, there's the egg is hatched. Huh? There's some bikes. Those are chickens. We farm chickens. Do. Yeah. So trials, bike. Okay. Yeah. So you're not never sitting down. Really? Yeah. So it's like my mountain biking. It's like downhill mountain biking with a two 5,300 CC two stroke engine. So Lee, you can go uphill with the same fat in the same style as you would go. Downhill mountain biking super fun. But then yeah, when foiling came around it took over and I stopped dirt biking for a few years. And I just recently, now that I've had a baby I'm just recently getting back into trials and we've been riding and it feels good to mix it up, foiling, I think for a lot of people who started foiling, it took over our. Our brains where it's all you wanted to do. But it's nice to get back into a different sport again, it's not the only thing. Yeah. Okay. So then I guess you started toe foiling and then prawn foiling. And then how did you progress into wing for them? I, so I am a financial advisor and I have an office in Maui. Also. I have a partner over there and so I would go to Maui every couple months. To work with clients and work at the office over there. I'd stay there for about a week or so. And, before I went to Maui, I wouldn't bring a surfboard cause the surf's not great over there most of the time. And then when boiling came around, I was like, Oh my gosh, this changes my business trips all together. Now I can bring my foil and there's so many places to boil over there. And I, I kite serve too, but I never caught it over there, but I'd go check out like, who Keepa, like what was happening? And it caught on. And I had a client that was like telling me, she was like, this wing boiling thing. She had some people, she knew, some people that were getting into it. She's it's going to take off. And I was like I don't know about that. But then I went to whole Keepa and I saw some of these first guys that were whinging. Oh, what's that right? Caught that. It Hokies over to the side. And it was like double overhead and they were just killing it and I was. And not many people were winging yet. This was like two years ago and I was like, Oh, okay, now I get it. And this makes perfect sense to me. I was like, this is towing. You are basically towing in on your foil, but you are yourself, the jet ski and like how kite surfing is, you're your own jet ski. And and I went, when I got back to a wahoo, I told my husband, I'm like, we gotta do this. I'm like this winging thing, I'm finding a wing and you can even find a wing, like nobody was selling them. They were like out before you could even buy one. And so I ordered, this was my first one, this wing ride to Kuma that I got. And I didn't even know how to use it, but I just knew, I was like, I know I have to do this sport. And so my husband came with me to Maui. The next time I went and I was like, we got to learn this. And he was like, honestly, he's it's the stupidest thing I've ever seen. And he's a tight surveys and cutting like 20 some years and he wind surf. And then I brought him to hokey-pokey and we watched those same guys, like in some pretty big surf. And he was like, okay, now I get it makes sense. And then, so we came back to a wahoo and I connected with Christian I don't think, Christian one Maui days, his Instagram, and he came to a wahoo. So he came to Weill who one day today, I think hanging out with you guys or some of the South shore wahoo crew that wanted to learn to wing. And I was like, Christian you're in Oahu. Great. I was like, can you come teach me too? And so somebody drops him off at the airport and I go to the airport and I pick him up and we go straight to Kailua and I was like, okay, let's do this. Teach me how to wing. And that was my first day that picture Christian took where he showed me, like he showed me just a few simple things right off the bat. And I still do that same exact start today on almost no matter what board I'm on. The knees start, holding your hands to the side and right. Actually, yeah, walk us through that. Because a lot of people are starting out and you need help with that. Can you walk us through exactly how you start. Yeah. And like I noticed so many people don't get any pointers and it takes them forever. And like the simplest things, when I show people it like clicks and they get it pretty quickly. But yeah you always have the wing on your wrist, the Alicia, your is to never do anything without it on your wrist, crawl on the board, get on your knees. Don't worry about the wing it's on your wrist. You don't need to think about it. Just make sure it's downwind from you, crawl on your knees, hold the rails of the board, get super comfortable and then grab that leash and start pulling it in and then put, grab the front handle that's on that middle strap there and then grab the back handle. And the key that I think a lot of people miss is they're trying to. Hold it straight down wind and their body is straight down when, and you don't want to hold it like that instead, you really, what Christian showed me is that, like that angle, right? With your arms and your back where you want to like twist. And when you do that, what happens is you pushes your board up when, and when I show people that when I'm there to show people that it like clicks and it really helps everyone, everything come to gather, but it's holding it like this. And so this was my first day and I would just hold it like that as hard as I could. And right then you'll see the wind will catch it and you'll start pointing sort of up wind and start moving. And this nice start I did when I was nine months, 10 months pregnant. And it was so easy that that is something that I could do pretty easily being pregnant. And then you just put your front foot up and then your back foot up, and then you're standing. Yeah. That's pretty much how I do it too. And even on a smaller board, you can still start that way. Yeah. There's the thing about learning, weighing in and going through all this is at first, it feels like the most impossible thing in the world. And you're like, there is no way I'm going to do this. Like how in the world people do this and you just need to put in a don't let it get you down. Enjoy that hardness to it. Enjoy that every fall. Because I, the first time I was on my prone board and I put my knees under me, I was like, this is impossible. But after the fifth time doing it, yeah. I start on my knees, my board sinks a little I'm sinking more on the tail. So the nose will come up so that you don't, the nose doesn't dig in the water and same thing. I'll be w it's hard to balance on a little board on your knees, but it's totally possible do the same thing, reel it in. Same exact thing. And it works. I find a lot of times the hardest part is getting the wing over your head. Like from when it's sitting on the water to getting it up over your head, once you have wind in the wing, then it's more stable. Yeah, there's like a few seconds where you really just have to focus and believe in yourself and be like I can, but my husband is so funny. My husband says he's like the most uncoordinated person in the water and now he rides his prone board and he always says, if I can do it, meaning him. He's anybody can do it. And it's true. So if he can start on his prone board and he doesn't spend that much time in the water surfing, and then literally anybody can do it. He's a really good wing filer too now. So actually I was going to ask you, what's it like to be married to a wing foiler or both? I guess both of you are SEF obsessed with foiling. Yeah. So it's funny, as I learned first, I got these lessons from Christian and my husband just looked on that's just looks so stupid. He literally told me it looks so dumb. And then when I brought him to Maui, I gave, actually gave him lessons. I got the idea of how to go in and out. And so I taught him. And then he ended up he's this, his personality where, when he wants to do something, he just goes all out and like obsesses into it. And he actually got better than me pretty quickly because he just obsessed over. It would keep going and going. And frankly, I couldn't find the right board for me to continue on. So I had I quit for a month or two because, equipment is everything and winging. If you don't have the right equipment, then you're just going to have a horrible time. But he ended up getting a good board for him. And so then he just got, yeah, he got so much better than me and just started doing it way more. And when I was like nine months, eight, nine months pregnant, he's like everyday sake. I'm going winging. I'm going weighing, and I'm going winging it. And I was like, Jesus. I was like, you can't be like this when we have a baby. And he's no. I'm just doing it now because we don't have a baby yet. And it's true. He's really good now. But it's actually really helpful because when I was nine months pregnant, I didn't feel like doing anything. Like my energy levels were so low, but I would just at least drive down to the beach and he would help me rig my stuff up because it just, I didn't feel like doing anything. And once I got in the water, it was pretty easy. So it was, it's really helpful that he is a winger too, because he helped motivate me when I wasn't feeling that hot. And now he like, then he started doing like back wending and tax and all this stuff that I wasn't even considering. Cause I really just liked surfing mostly. And yeah, now he's like doing all these tricks and I was like, wait a minute. I tell you how to wing it. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah, I love that term toiling too. I think that's when I, the first time I saw you foiling was when you were towing for length with Zach and I was just impressed by how you, he looked. I don't know just so efficient and I dunno, like a lot of times when guys are foiling on a wave, it looks like they're just like really tense and and you just look relaxed and totally balanced between, you got the foil just like totally balanced out and just look like, so in control that I was always really impressed by your style. Oh, thanks. It's honestly, because we spent so much time suffering. We try to tell people are like, they get so frustrated learning how to foil or learning how to wing. And I'm like, no, you don't understand how much leave time we put into suffering. People don't believe it. Right when you're a good winger already. They're like, think that it's just as natural and no, can you maybe show us some video of yourself? Like towing foiling? Do you have anything that you can show kind of progression? Yeah. The first, yeah, that first one in canned Dewey. That was my point. And Oh yeah. I'll show you this one video. Some of my best videos is when I was pregnant because I couldn't lay down. What was that? Your mom? I just think I saw a picture of your mom. Yes right there. Yeah. She was great from the eighties and nineties. Big hair. Yeah. His father was a ventriloquist in Las Vegas. Oh, that's your dad. Wow. Yeah, totally not the surfing background. Yeah, I was pregnant. I couldn't lay down and serve, so I was pretty much just winging and stuff boiling and one of my chefs. Yeah. Sorry. I want to, but yeah, I saw that some of those videos of the, you swimming with the sharks while you're pregnant, that's pretty cool to watch those, but yeah, let's watch this first. This was, I was eight months pregnant here. The water's so smooth. Yeah. It was such a beautiful day. This was like one of such, it was not even that big. It was pretty small that day. It was only like two feet Hawaiian, but I'm just so glassy. It's snowboarding and powder and once you get the hang of foiling and it's pretty effortless. And babe, my only goal was just don't fall. It's not a fun falling when you're pregnant. You have to be careful too. Yeah. I You can't really have heavy impacts and stuff like that. When you have you, can, you got your, my human body is pretty strong, but I don't want to, it doesn't feel good. So I just, my goal was just to be as smooth as possible. Not do any fast jerky movements and just stay up on foil. And yeah, my husband's flying the drone actually from the beach and then that's our friend that was driving me. Yeah. Zach does posts such nice footage with the drone, like out on the North shore. Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing. He was forcing me to buy a drone forever. He's get a drone and get a drone. And I was like, you get the drone anyways. I ended up buying it and he uses it more than me, but yeah it's fun to get footage of your friends. So that's the long wave. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Super long. Yeah. Can't disclose where any of the spots are. Yeah, that's fine. We don't want to be able to know, but yeah, I, living in tonic, I mostly went for on this side, but every now and then I make it out there like a week ago I was out on your side and while it was fun, it was a good session. I know. It's great. We didn't even know where we would be winging and then it just once we got into it, we were like, Oh, we can win bear and we can win there. And there, and then it just opened up so many spots where, you know, as a surfer, you'd be like, basically, it's you stay out of the water that day, but then we needed to all of a sudden, now I can wing and all these different places and just opened up the whole coast for us. Oh, this is. Let's see, this is, I was towing again. I was like 32 weeks pregnant was what's that? Yeah. Seven or eight months pregnant. And there was a hammerhead shark. You'll see it right there. Like how often do you get to see a hammerhead right into you while you're foiling? Yeah, it seems like they're curious about the foil is right. The sharks. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I think the cavitation I think attracts them or something, but so this again, I was like eight months pregnant and. I went shark diving. I didn't intend to get so close, but tiger sharks are a lot different than other, a lot of the other sharks around here, most other sharks will see you and just swim away. Tiger sharks come right up to show that video where he's like, where the sharks like opening its mouth and it's like chicken you out. Yeah. They are like, they come right up. They are ready to touch you and say, who are you? What are you? And luckily, I had that pole, my friend said, have the poll pushed him away. So I had my camera on that poll. I wasn't scared mostly because I have so many friends that are into diving with sharks that I understand how they act. But they come right up to you. I was like, Oh, okay. It was a huge Decker struck. It's not aggressive, but that's how they are, they want to check you out and see what you're all up about. Yeah. It's almost like they want me to get pet petted on the nose or something again. That's, that's how they see what things are, is with their mouth. And unfortunately their mouth has big teeth can be really dangerous, but yeah, it was super interested in us. And I was like, I think right after that, I swam back to the vote. I'm like, that's, I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. Or scared after the fact, I was like, Oh man, that was, it was a little close for me. But like I said, they're not, I've been educated a lot about sharks and they're not They're not aggressive if you don't, you just have to behave the right way. Yeah. Cool. And then so let's talk a little bit about, I guess obviously when you're foiling it depends on your way and so on. So when you're pregnant, obviously you gain weight. So did that change what you were using? Did you use a bigger foil? Did these a bigger, yeah, it's so funny. My friend I'd come in from these sessions and I be complaining, I couldn't stay up on foil. And he was like you are like 30 pounds heavier. And I was like, okay. Point taken you're right. Yeah. So I did start using a bigger foil, actually the foil that my husband uses The hyper one 90, it's this high at a bigger high aspect oil. And that's what I think I'm using here because I'm in pretty much in light wind conditions, when you're maybe jiving and going back out or something, I could just, gently tap on the front of the board and it would just keep gliding and get me through a lot of those light wind sections. And I know it's hard to believe, but it was like, it was one of the easiest things for me to do. Being pregnant is waiting for boiling on a big foil. It was like so effortless and so low impact too. That if I, didn't know about winging, I probably would have mostly been out of the water for the last few months of being pregnant. So it was such a blessing to have this sport, this time of my life. Yeah. That's awesome. So you were pretty much, and then after you gave birth, you were pretty much back in the water again pretty soon too, or, yeah, I got back in the water after about a month. I stayed out, which was totally, I always thought that, it'd be so hard to not serve after having a baby. But that wasn't the case at all. I had so much fun hanging out with my baby. This is one of the first sessions that I did after getting back in the water. So my husband is filming it from the beach, holding the baby in the ergo, flying the drone. I'm out there winging. That's awesome. And I was like, Oh, it was on a small foil. I had a small wing. I was like, Oh, it feels so good to not be pregnant, but instantly lost 30 pounds. Yeah. It was like, yeah. Yeah. I have my body back. I was like, cause frankly, you start thinking for women out there when you're really pregnant, you start thinking, you're just suck at everything because you're so big and you can't move properly. But in fact it's just because you have a baby inside of you, extra weight. Yeah. Yeah. I got back into it and now we we'll just go to the beach to get a lot of the time. We just go to the beach together and bring all of our gear and one person goes out. Other person hangs out with the baby on the beach, and then usually he'll go out first and then come back and then rig up my gear for me. Cause I'll be holding the baby still is he can't really up gear. He always says, wait, I want to be the one to hold the baby. And you wake up the foil and pump up the way. Yeah. So do you end up using the same wing or do you have both have your own equipment or? Yeah, we have our own equipment. He writes the uniform when wings he really likes them. I guess they're a bit more powerful that F ones are probably like a little bit more, less powerful, but I really liked them because they are so lightweight. Yeah, the newer one, this strike that this Stripe right here, that's the newer one. It's super light. And this handles are really small. I like small handle. Cause when the handle is a lot of other wings, they have big handles and they kinda cramped my hands holding them for awhile. So I liked the small handles and I like how lightweight the F1 is. It might not be the most powerful one. But I, I dunno for me, I think it's totally fine. So what are the differences between the original this F1 swing? I think it's called N and then the strike would it, how did it change? So this is the original F1 Yes, swing. It's a little more flexy. And when you would be on your board pumping, trying to get up on foil, you could literally see the tips of the wings would be like fluttering and like bending. And I'm like, it's literally almost like wings and the fluttering kind of helped generate some wind power to get you going on. Some people complained about that. I actually really liked it cause I could feel that it was like pulling in the wing and generating power. And then the new ones are stiffer and you can pump them up to nine PSI. So they're a lot different, but they're also super lightweight. And I really love the lightweight as a female, even though I'm strong. I love that they're light because I don't get as tired holding them, whereas I've flown other wings and I just get a little bit tired after a while holding kind of a bulky wing. So I liked the F1, but yeah, my husband's still flies the the uniform oil wind wings. So this picture actually is interesting. And so this picture was on a bigger day off, up here on the North shore of Oahu, it was like six feet Hawaiian this day. And I was nine days overdue. This was the day before I gave birth. Yeah. My friend came down to the beach and his wife had made When do you call it cookies that supposed to help you go into labor or something. And he also took these pictures. He's don't eat these cookies unless you're ready. I'm like, I am ready. And so I grinded like 10 cookies and then I went back out for my second session that day. He got that picture and I'm like, that's so cool. And then the next day I had my baby those cook cookies made a difference. Huh. And that's another reason why it was really windy and hairy this day. And some of the guys were having a hard time, but I was like, whatever, it takes God to have this baby I'm going out there. I know it was just funny how that all works. Yeah. Yeah. And then I noticed once you gave birth to Raven that your Instagram feed is like now probably 80%, which is great. And she's so cute. I think you always think that, a baby is going to take away from your free time and the things you love doing. But in fact, you just want to spend so much time with your baby and you like want to integrate them into your life and show them the things you do. And it's so exciting. Like we joke that she really likes the windiest and coldest beaches. We always bring her down to the beach when it's like prime winning conditions. You think she actually likes that? She seems to not mind it we've been starting are really young, so she doesn't know the difference. She doesn't know that beaches are supposed to be warm and sunny. Yeah. So one of you is on the beach with the baby, the other one's out winging, and then you switch off. Yup. It's pretty much exactly how it goes. That's awesome. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about the your foils that you're using. And I know you started with that big clunky ride engine and then now using uniform, right? Yeah. So tell us about your your foils. Yeah. So here I can you see, are you, can you see the Unifor website right now? Yeah. Okay. I got involved with uniform soil. That's another kind of a long story and it's related to my parrot, but anyways, they asked me to be the team writer and the distributor, and I said, Hey, why not? I'm obsessed with boiling as it is. So for towing, my absolute favorite foil is the one-fifty vortex. It's like the surf foil. And it's pretty small, but why I like it is that it doesn't have upward pressure, the faster you go. When you go toiling, you can go pretty fast sometimes, especially, on some of the big days up, out here on the North shore, when it's like maybe six foot Hawaiian or even eight feet, you're going really fast down the face of these waves. And. Something about the uniform oils is they don't have that. A lot of other foils, if you go faster and faster, that foils wanting to lift up and you're pushing hard on your front foot to keep it down. But the way the uniform oils are designed is they don't have that upward pressure. So they have an unlimited top speed. And so I love them for towing. It's just so smooth. And you would think that means it only works in big ways, but in fact, I ride the same foil prone foiling when it's like one to two feet. So it works in small waves and big waves. And before I got pregnant, I was winging with it too. Cause I would wing and, large conditions where it's like a foot or so overhead. And so I would be winging with this foil too. And when you're winging, it's windy. So the oceans bumpy and. You want a foil that can handle those bumps and cut through the chop smoothly. And it does that really well, too. So this was like my all around foil for the longest time was the vortex one-fifty I was just using it for everything. Do you know how many square centimeters the, that is surface area projected surface area? Or does it say you're going to ask me that, I guess it's 968 square centimeters. Okay. Yeah. And my husband, he really likes it for towing too. The bottom of the foil, is it pretty much flat or does it add a little bit of a curve in the back of it? So it's dihedral I don't think there's a picture. It shows of that. It's dihedral and, but generally it's, it doesn't have much of a curve. No. So it's pretty, pretty flat. Like now, it is low aspect, but yeah, like I guess like an Armstrong foils, like good comparison where they're like they have these big curves in them. Actually what I meant is like the profile, so if towards the back, if it's turned down a little bit cause I know that kind of helps with the faster you go, the more kind of a downward pitch it has when you have that little bit of a, on the bottom have that. I don't know what it's called, but it's almost Oh yeah, you have one there. Okay. Yeah. I have one. Let me see, I did my work office and my foil storage area. Actually take a look at it. One more vortex, one 50, but. Okay. Yeah. So it's, it doesn't have a lot of curve to the tips. It's pretty flat, but it has. Yeah. I see the dihedral and then it does look like it's on the bottom of the bottom side of the profile. It's a little bit, has a little bit of inward curve. Yeah. Is it? I don't know. I can't see really. I have to take a closer look at it, but that's probably why it doesn't have, probably has a little bit of forward pitch when you go faster, would think, yeah. Cause I trust me, I know what for Fred pressure feels like those are those right engines, right? Yeah. So fast speeds. Love it. I was writing that and six feet, eight foot surf, but honestly I like toilet in smaller ways. I think it's more fun. Head high, I think is like the perfect size. I don't need big waves for toiling. And when it's bigger, I think it's more fun just to tow surf or paddle ins or, something like that without the foil. And then you said can I ask, how much do you weigh? What usually? Yeah. Yeah, usually, it changes right now. I'm like 135 pounds. And then when you're pregnant you gained about, I was like 155 when I was pregnant. And then, so which, which further do you use when you were pregnant? You said you had still tow. Even when I was pregnant, I tow with the vortex one 50, but then when I was winking and I was like super lazy and I was like most important. I don't want to come off foil. I wrote a high aspect foil, but I wrote a bigger high aspect. I wrote the hyper one 90, wait a minute. That's the one 50 the hyper one 90, it's one of their newer high aspects. And the glide is just. They're all the same, but the one 90 that glide is just unreal. Like it's so effortless. So in, light winds, subpar, winging conditions, I could just bounce around, stay on foil because I just didn't have the energy to put, that much into staying on foil. And the one 90 just kept me going. And it took me like until I was like seven months pregnant to accept the fact that I needed to be on a bigger foil. And yeah, it kept me going. And even that big day, right before I gave birth and I was on the one 90, like writing, some pretty, big bumpy swells. And it, it handled find at works and big surf too. It's like, all my husband uses his, the one 90 and he rides it and. In all sorts of conditions with how much does he weigh? 175 pounds about, yeah. For winging toilet, foiling, everything toiling. He uses that same one. No, for toiling. We're all always on the surf foil, the vortex one 50. So he uses that as well. Yeah. What about mass length? What length? Yeah. So there's seven 50 and eight 30. So seven 50 is 29, 30 inches. That's what I use pretty much for anything. And then he uses the longer one for winging and towing. We have this whole like argument. He's it's better for winging to use a longer mass and he's right. But I personally can't tell the difference. So I use either one, I know, one day I went out and I was like, I'm so happy. I'm using the long mask. He's you're not you're on the short mask. I was like, Oh, I can't really tell a difference, but it does help. And when you're winning to be on a longer mask, because the ocean's bumpy and so you need more gifts. So you don't breach and same with towing. It's usually better to be on a longer mask. Yeah. Just affords you more mistakes, basically. Yeah. Yeah. And you can fly over the small chop without having to up and down so much. I find that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot better. Everybody that gets on a longer mask can feel the difference when you're in kind of those choppy, bumpy conditions. Yeah. I'm the only person I'm so easy. I can get used to almost anything I'm like, Oh, whatever. And what about tail wings? Whatever you like for using for tailings? My favorite is the flat tail wing, which is the one pictured here. But I do have a lot of writers on the canes back wing. Basically almost all my uniform writers are now using canes back wing and they love it. I haven't tried it. I don't know. I thought there was only one. I don't even know. Yeah. He has like all different ones, so yeah. Yeah, he does. They all love it. Most of my writers start off on the flat wing. And then eventually, and they'll say they love it. They'll cut it down to 14 inches is like a good length to cut it to, and then they'll get on the cane wing and they'll be like, Oh my God, it's amazing. And now they don't go back after they get on Cain's back, laying there, like stuck on it. They never come back to a regular back wing, but Yeah. So you're the distributor for all of Hawaii or for all the Hawaiian islands. You have little warehouse in your garage or how does that work here? In my office everywhere. And then you, do you sell them at pretty much the same prices on the website or exactly the same price. Okay, nice. Yeah, no shipping. That's good. Yeah. And like I shipped to Maui and Hawaii, but it's super cheap, right? Yeah. Yeah. What else still oil has been around like a really long time. They're one of the first companies to do two high aspect wings, and then they sold their designs to signature. And then just like couple of years ago, foil decided they wanted to like, distribute their own brand. And so it's like new ish in terms of being able to buy uniform from a distributor wherever you live. So not, they're not a lot of people are riding them, but the people that I do have riding that I absolutely love them. I think happy Tedford has a uniform. And I saw him the other day using a uniform when I first foil friends and him and our other friend, Johnny, and I got them on uniform. When I became a distributor and they love them. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. And you saw the wingsuit or yeah. I don't sell wings as much. I just focus on the foils. My husband's more into selling wings to people. Cause he, he loves the uniform of wing wings. They have a lot of power and he's totally right. They do. So that's more his arena, but mostly I just focus more on the foils. I do have like my own job. I'm a financial advisor. I have my own company. I don't want to be doing. Yeah. I don't want to be doing too many different things. So let's talk a little bit about your board. I know you have that board that has your parrot on it airbrush on it or painted on it. Is that still the one you use is that your main board and it, can you talk a little bit about. You're bored. What you using the progression and so on? Yeah. I want to pull it up here. So it took me a while to figure out what kind of board to get for Wayne. Cause after you learn, you start off in these huge hundred plus leader boards, and then you realize that's not sustainable. You need to be on some things smaller. And I borrowed a board from Derek Jimmy Lewis, one of his boards. And when he got a new one and I got on the Jimmy Lewis and the first day, and I was like, Oh my God, this is what I need like this, these dimensions, this shape. It's perfect. And so I brought it back to my, if here on a wahoo Gordon assets in Hawaii and I was like, These are the dimensions. This is what we need to do for winging. Cause nobody else could tell me what to do. It was so new, like hardly anybody on a lot who was winning, but I was like, I got this Jimmy Lewis and I'm like, this is what we need to do. Can you please make me something like this copy of these dimensions and Bob Barela had passed away and he Gordon's like super artistic. He's he loves bright colors and he his daughter's an artist and she was home because of COVID and I didn't know, but they painted Barbarella on it for me. Yeah, it was so sweet. And so I would always say like when I went out, this was one of my first sessions with it. I was like, you can see Barbarella flying with me still. And this board was forced four, seven, four inches thick. And about 24 inches wide, I believe. And it was about probably 65, 70 liters. And it's good because balance on your knees, but it was short enough that it was super fun in the surf. You could turn it really easily, pretty much big enough to float you then, right? Yeah. Totally big enough to float you on your knees. So that's what you want, basically, especially on a wahoo where the wind's not always that great, it's not Maui. You want something that'll float you, but you also want something small enough that you can have fun in the surf. And that it took me a bit to figure that out. Then when I did this board, I just became obsessed with it and I wrote it for about a year up until I gave birth. And then I realized, and then it, I think I, I must've hit it too many times cause it started taking in water. Unfortunately it got a little heavy, but I got into winging with my prone board. And yeah, the other day I saw you in the water waiting for the gust on your kind of underwater. Yeah. But it's super fun. Like when it's windy, once you're up, then it's pretty awesome. Huh? Yeah. It's like those windy days, you're like, Ooh, it's like Maui, get out. You're a little bored and now I will put, so if it's super windy, I will put straps in it and pretend I'm in Maui and do jumps and things like that. Yeah. I see the jump. So let's talk a little bit about foot straps, like using footsteps versus going without and so on. Like what's your take on that? Yeah, so I usually don't use foot straps unless it's really windy and unless I want to jump I've cut. I kite surfed and tow surfed and we never use straps. So I was just, I've been used to not using straps and all my sports. So the only time I decided I wanted to use straps and is when it's really windy and when I want to jump. But also if you have straps that makes it really hard to switch your feet because I go switch stamps when I'm winging it. If I don't go switch stance, like it hurts. Like my legs lock up and your back it's kinda tweaked. So I have to go switch dance to me. It feels good to balance your body. And if you have straps in there, it makes it hard to switch. And if you're on a prone board, there's not even room for another strap. But if you want to just switch stance. So I do, like I said, I do put straps in, but usually only when it's really windy and when I'm trying to do jumps, so I'm still learning on how to jump good. But that is a day with straps. So you'll end up like putting this straps on and off your board regularly. Like you take them off and put them back on, take them off. I am. Yeah. So this is a day. So what, I ended up getting a Jimmy Lewis from my friend for as a light wind board, because my Barela board just got too heavy. And so this is a day just like few weeks ago on that Jimmy Lewis sport. So yeah, no straps and I'm, I like being able to move my feet around. But there's a case to be said for having straps and not having straps. Can you give some pointers on switching stance? I dunno, I learned. I learned and moved down to the smaller board pretty quickly. And I never really learned how to switch my stance. So I met you and you told me that back to a bigger board to learn it. So I'm like, ah, sorry, is, do not start to learn without going switch. So you can't learn to wing, then go back and try to do switch. That's I don't know anybody that's done that. If you're going to learn to wing, learn, switch at the same time, if you've already learned waiting, and now you're trying to learn, switch based and just accept the fact that you're going to be horrible. And you're going to, you're basically learning how to foil all over again, because remember learning how to foil initially it's wait a minute, front foot weight. Push really hard on the front foot. And that's what you have to train your brain to do for switch stands. And it's not going to happen immediately, but I probably put like a good week into doing it. Like every day where it, it started clicking. But what I would do is first you ride, switch, not on foil, so don't let the foil come out of the water, put all your weight forward and just ride, switch with the board on top of that water. And then when you're ready to come up, let weight off your front foot, come up and then push it back down. Don't try to come up and start gliding because your body doesn't know how to do that yet. You need to teach your body. So come up, push it down, come up, push it down. And you're like training your brain to go switch and you're training your front leg. And then. If you do that enough, you'll fall a few times. You will figure it out. But I know a lot of people just don't want to put that effort into it, but if I don't go switch my back, my, my leg cramps up my back hurts. So you get used to it, I guess like my hips used to always be sore for a minute, but now it doesn't bother me anymore. And I could go up when pretty steep going by twisted up. But yeah, I don't know. But and then the other thing is like switching your stance while you're up on foil. Is there like what's your trick to doing that? First be really comfortable going switch before you even try that. And then if you are comfortable going switch. What I found with so much of winging and all these different tricks tax and jumping and everything is the biggest obstacle is like in your own mind. And if you like overthink things too much, then you're going to psych yourself out and convince yourself that you can't do it. And the, I, when I want to go switch, basically what I do is I wait until I go over a little lump and the nose of the board comes up and I'll just, and, but the biggest thing is just do it without overthinking it. And then the quicker you do things and just know that it's, you might fall a few times, but don't overthink it. And the more I don't overthink things, the easier they are to just do them. I know it's easier said than done. Yeah. I just started doing, just start hopping back. If you can go switch Sanchez. Just hop to start hopping and put your feet the other way. And eventually it'll just start clicking. Yeah. Yeah. The last interview I did was with Kendall wild and really liked what he, the way he put it was I guess he likes to really get technical in his mind and think about how everything works and stuff and be in that state of mind before he gets on the water. But then once you're doing it, you just have to let your body hat make, or let it happen basically. Or, your body automatically takes over and you just look where you want to go. And so maybe talk about that. Like when you get into the, when you're really into it and just everything's just clicks and you're in tune and no wrong yeah. Sorry, go ahead. How many, so many athletes they talk about that, like you, you have to envision it and, think about that. I think that's what came things is he has to understand the mechanics. And I probably I'd probably go through that in my head too. You have to envision see yourself doing it, but then yeah, once you're on the water like you don't need to think about that anymore. Just become one with the ocean, just be so happy that you're out there and take in the glory of it all, whether or not you're ripping or killing it, that doesn't matter. And just go with the flow. And if you want to do a jive, you want to switch your feet. You want to jump, just just do it. Don't overthink. It just embrace the place you're in. And what I see is so many people get so upset. They get so frustrated when things go wrong and don't worry about it supposed to be hard. If it's the, wouldn't be fun, if it wasn't hard, just have fun. And the whole process of trying and falling. And yeah, that's what I do. I just go out, like, when I was pregnant, it was just one side. It'd be up on foil. I'd be like, Oh, all my worries are gone. And you just do your best. And when you think you want to switch your feet or jumped, just don't think about it. Just say I want to jump and just do it. You might not make it. It's okay. So that's the attitude I take with all my sports is, it's going to be hard. It's going to suck, but enjoy that part of it. Yeah. So do you have any tips to get into that, right? That state of mind where you're just enjoying it and then you're in the moment and you're not like getting mad at yourself for not being good enough or something like that. It's appreciate appreciation, like appreciating where you are, that you even have the opportunity to like, have a wing in your hand, like we're so lucky, like in America we can do these things and just appreciating that you get that experience. So many people don't get to do the things we do. So I think it just comes down to appreciation mostly. I like that. So are you are you working on any new tricks or like what's your anything you're trying to pull off that you're not that good at yet or any so while I was pregnant, my husband's like, when are you going to do attack? And I was like I don't want to fall right now because I'm really hassle me every day. When are you going to do it to act? And I'm like, okay, now I'm learning to do attack. I'm not pregnant. So I started doing tax, but I I do come, you have to wait until it's no, the right situation where you're like all, when you come out of a wave and you're almost tacking or the wind, so off shore that it's makes it just so easy to tack. What's your stance before you tack or after you tack? It depends. It depends which way you're going. Yeah. So I guess if I'm tacking, if I'm going back out to see all B I haven't switched my stance, so I'll still be tweaked. And then you like tack into a wave and then you're still in your regular stance. But then, on the other side of the Island, everything's obviously right. So just, but he's always gives me a hard time that I'm not into learning tricks. Cause I'm such like a surfer, like I want to serve mostly more than anything. But yeah, so I'm starting tax. Sometimes I get them sometimes they don't and then I stopped jumping too while I was pregnant, because that's probably not very safe when you're really racing. So I've gotten, I'm starting to get back into jumping and I want to learn to, hang like Annie star is she's so inspiring. But we just don't get the same wind that they get. So we don't always have those strong gusts to be able to jump. And then watching you jump how you do a cut back and then you kinda jump as you're doing a cut back. I've saw you do that the other day. And I was like that. I need to learn that, jumping a lot of it is like turning into the wind. So you kinda, that way you get more hang time, the more you can. Go up when in your jump, the more you can hang in the wind wing and the softer the landing is too, and you don't definitely don't want to jump just like straight with the sideways to the winter going downwind. Cause then you have no more pressure once you're up in the air. I don't know. But yeah, that works really well on the North shore because I can jump in my regular stance on the wave and that's super fun actually. Yeah. So that's, that was, yeah. I kept seeing you do those. I was like, Oh, okay. That's how I learned. Most things it's just watching other people. It was like, Oh, I'll just try and copy what they did. Yeah, no, it's actually, that's a good way to learn, to tack, to just go behind someone that's attacking him. Just try to do exactly what they did. Yeah. Don't think about it. Just say, Oh, that looked easy. I'll try it. Have you taught other people how to wing foil and like what's your process or what do you do to teach others how to get through? I've taught a bunch of people how, and I'm like, I'll go in the water and I'll hold the board so they can get on their knees. So I really drill that whole getting on your knee thing and then holding the wing, like that is super important. And just that couple of basic little things are super important. And then my most favorite way, and not everybody agrees with this, but my favorite way to teach people how to wing is to take them on a really long down winder. So they can just fall their way down when, for five miles. So I taught my friend, my one friend like this, and by I think it was like five, six, seven miles. And like the last mile he started getting it. He fell for the entire time until the last mile. And then he was like, Started going back and forth. And I was like, I, yes, I knew it. I knew this was a good way to teach people. Yeah. That's actually how we learn to like Derek comma and Jeff Chang. And I, we just did like Hawaii Chirons instead of, we were always trying to do it on windy days with a paddle, stand up foiling and it was so hard. And then with the wing, it was hard too in the beginning, but then once you get it, it's so much easier when you have the wing than trying to do it with a paddle, and just being able to not have to worry about staying up wind and just going downwind. And so you just, cause you have to get. To the end. So you just figure out how to do that. And I, the most important thing is to have a positive attitude because you will fall a thousand times. And I, every I'd come by my friend each time, like you, okay. I need a big smile on his face. He's I'm fine. I'm like perfect. By the end, he got it. So yeah, if you can find a place to do a long downwind or somewhere where it's safe, you're not getting blown out to sea. That's optimal because yeah. It can be a struggle trying to stay up when you're first learning. Yeah. That's a good tip. I like that. But as long as you, as long as you can get back and maybe have someone who can help, go with you, that can keep an eye on your insulin, do it alone. Like I'm always I'm always willing. Anybody wants to learn and I'll do a down winder with you. I always say that to people and I'll just be with them, and I'll bring my cell phone and a Fanny pack. And just make sure they make it back to the beach. And then I'll just have fun doing circles around them. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. We have such a great flow community here on the wahoo too. It's everybody's so just how everyone's having fun and open and it's not I guess shortboarding can be so like I dunno, so competitive and yeah. It's almost like playing chess where people try to like, or psych each other out and stuff like that, where you're trying to get the next wave and try to like outmaneuver everyone else to be able to catch the next wave and stuff like that. And wing flailing is like totally different where it's just not like that. No, it's, we're like so stoked when our friends on our wave and like teaching people, everybody wants to help each other. Yeah. And surfing is so such an one of my, my, my husband stopped because it's so like aggressive and angry. I'm better than you kind of mentality. And so that's why I really, I think during this interview he laughed, he like took off to go winging. Yeah. But I guess if wing for lane all of a sudden there's 10 times as many wing filers on the water. It might be a little bit different again, too. But I think right now it's just yeah, everyone's just having fun and everybody knows each other. And we have this WhatsApp group and everybody's like posting, Oh, it's windy here. It's windy here or whatever. And there's waves and this and that. So everyone's just like sharing all the information, which is, I think it's awesome. So opens up so many more places, where, there's so many places you can go we haven't even touched so many places you can probably wing. That's true. And that's, what's so cool too, about being on an Island is that, there's always, it's always side shore somewhere or onshore somewhere. And like there's waves on one side or the other side usually, or, you can like, yeah. And you can get pretty much anywhere in an hour. So I'd say that's pretty awesome about a wall who, that we have so many spots that are right. And he's got so many options. So I just don't see getting crowded. Yeah. And the open ocean is just if you, like you said, if you'd just doing downwinders and writing open ocean swells, there's really no limit to how many people can do it. It's like really there isn't. Yeah. That's what I love about it. That kind of brings us to like what do you see for the future? Like how you think Wing's gonna progress and what do you see for any ideas for equipment and just progression and so on? What do you see for the future? Pre foiling, like kite surfing was like the wind sport, and every most surfers you talk about kite surfing and they're like not interested in

Host Jim DeRogatis and Greg Kot interview authors Jeff Chang and Davey D about their new edition of "Can't Stop Won't Stop," the essential hip hop history first published 16 years ago. Plus Jim and Greg review new albums by Dry Cleaning and Dawn Richard and hear what song got Beach Bunny inspired to pursue music as a career. Join our Facebook Group: https://bit.ly/3sivr9TBecome a member on Patreon: https://bit.ly/3slWZvcMake a donation via PayPal: https://bit.ly/3dmt9lURecord a Voice Memo: https://bit.ly/2RyD5Ah Featured Songs:Dawn Richard, "Boomerang," Second Line, Merge, 2021Dawn Richard, "Bussifame," Second Line, Merge, 2021Dawn Richard, "Mornin Streetlights," Second Line, Merge, 2021Dawn Richard, "Jacuzzi," Second Line, Merge, 2021Dry Cleaning, "Her Hippo," New Long Leg, 4AD, 2021Dry Cleaning, "Scratchcard Lanyard," New Long Leg, 4AD, 2021Dry Cleaning, "More Big Birds," New Long Leg, 4AD, 2021E-40, From The Ground Up (feat. Too $hort and K-Ci and JoJo), "E-40," The Element Of Surprise, Jive, 1998Rapsody, "12 Problems," 12 Problems (Single), Roc Nation, 2020Kendrick Lamar, "Alright," To Pimp A Butterfly, TDE, 2015Young M.A., "Ooouuu," Her-story, M.A. Music, 2016Tyler, the Creator, "I Ain't Got Time!," Flower Boy, Columbia, 2017LL Cool J, "I Need Love," Bigger and Deffer, Def Jam, 1987Living Legends, "Loose Cannon," Angelz Wit Dirty Faces, Outhouse, 2000The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy, "Language of Violence," Hypocrisy Is the Greatest Luxury, Island, 1992Kanye West, "Roses," Late Registration, Roc-A-Fella, 2005Beach Bunny, "Cloud 9 (feat. Tegan and Sara)," Cloud 9 (feat. Tegan and Sara) (Single), Mom+Pop, 2021Grimes, "Kill V. Maim," Art Angels, 4AD, 2015Heart, "Crazy On You," Dreamboat Annie, Mushroom, 1975

In this episode of TNL, Preach (@preachjacobs) talks to hip-hop historian, radio host, and author Davey D (@mrdaveyd) talking about the release of his book 'Can't Stop Won't Stop' co-authored with Jeff Chang). We talk about the origins of the book, West Coast hip-hop, Eazy-E and Pac stories, and more. Intro music by Ski Beatz (@skibeatz) Sponsored by Mo' Betta Soul www.mobettasoul.com To donate: $MoBettasoul

Title Episode Summary Today's episode is an interview with my lovely long-time friend, Jeff Chang. Jeff left the corporate world to start his own business, designing golf apparel like nothing I've ever seen - golf hats, accessories and clothing that truly really stand out. And I LOVE it!!! Today we are going to be talking all about Jeff's business, how he got to where he is today and where his inspiration comes from. Episode Takeaways: How one hat - THE HAT - changed Jeff's business forever, and furthermore underscored his company values How to TRULY stand out in a saturated market What it's like to go up against big players like Nike and major brands as a small business What to do when an opportunity so big comes your way - something that you may have only considered in your dreams When you take risks in business, as long as they align back to our personal values, you can't go far wrong.  Why we can't be all things to all people - and why that's a-ok! How to be okay with taking risks and failing, an essential part of learning and growing.  Rejection sucks, but the important thing is to not give up.  Selling is carrying on asking and asking... until someone says yes. And people WILL. “Maybe” is the worst answer you can get. Really! The art of flexibility. Why it's better to be less committed to allow for space to react in your business, than come up with a huge master plan and it not work out. On starting your own business and why it's KEY to center it around something you're truly passionate about. Why no effort ever goes unnoticed and how you never know how your deep efforts are going to come back to you in ways you couldn't have imagined. If you create enough momentum every single day, good things will follow... true story! How and why you need to constantly be in front of people every single day. Finally, it is important to stop and recognize how far you have come so far. All the steps you have taken and work you have put in, has got you to where you are today. Remember… How one hat changed an entire business model. What is your "hat"? What fuels you? Jeff and I emphasize the importance of creating your side hustle, and growing it. By continuing to do the work and keep showing up, it WILL eventually pay off. And we also want you to know how "maybe" could be just about the worst answer you could get... You Don't Want to Miss… 03:17 – Jeff's Business – D.Hudson 04:24 – Design Inspiration 07:32 – Finding Your Ideal Customer 09:30 – Creating Raving Fans 10:40 – The Story Behind THE HAT 17:07 – Taking Risks in Business 19:39 – Being OK with Failure and Rejection 25:50 – The Journey to Becoming an Entrepreneur 30:38 – How to Just Keep Going 35:35 – Measuring ‘Success' Find Jeff At… Website – http://www.dhudsongolfwear.com/ (www.dhudsongolfwear.com/) Instagram – http://www.instragram.com/dhudsongolfwear (www.instragram.com/dhudsongolfwear)  Facebook – http://www.facebook.com/dhudsongolfwear/ (www.facebook.com/dhudsongolfwear/) Chat With Me and More Free Resources At… Website -http://hollyknoll.com/ ( http://hollyknoll.com/) Instagram –https://www.instagram.com/hollyknoll/ ( https://www.instagram.com/hollyknoll/) Facebook -https://www.facebook.com/consult.hollyknoll ( https://www.facebook.com/consult.hollyknoll) Email me – holly@hollyknoll.com Grab your freebies: https://holly-knoll-1.mykajabi.com/business-action-guide (FREE Business Action Guide) https://holly-knoll-1.mykajabi.com/7-tools-to-save-time-and-reduce-overwhelm-checklist (FREE Checklist of 7 Tools to Save Time and Reduce Overwhelm)

A conversation on re-segregation in American life today.  According to author Jeff Chang “resegragation is one of the most under-thought and under-recognized issues of our times. It is a fact that the U.S. is moving towards becoming a “majority-minority” country. In California is already happening.  And in the Bay Area we are racially re-segregating at a shocking rate, especially in the form of gentrification and displacement”. Guest: Jeff Chang is a Hip Hop journalist and writer. His latest book, We Gon' Be Alright: Notes on Race and Resegregation was named the Northern California Nonfiction Book Of The Year, and the Washington Post declared it “the smartest book of the year.” In May 2019, he and director Bao Nguyen created a four-episode digital series adaptation of the We Gon' Be Alright for PBS Indie Lens Storycast. The post We Gon' Be Alright: Notes on Race and Resegregation appeared first on KPFA.