Podcasts about asian america

What do Bruce Lee, hip hop, and you have in common? More than you think. Acclaimed author and cultural critic Jeff Chang joins us for a conversation that goes way beyond Bruce Lee—and straight into identity, race, representation, belonging, and the pressure to become someone else just to fit in. Based on his acclaimed book Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America, Jeff unpacks how Bruce Lee became a symbol of visibility, confidence, and self-definition for generations of people who felt underestimated, stereotyped, or erased. But this episode expands far beyond one icon. We get into Hollywood, racism, stereotypes, imposter syndrome, belonging—and the unexpected link between Asian American identity and hip hop culture. Jeff Chang brings a deeply human perspective shaped by growing up navigating race and identity, facing racism at Berkeley, and slowly turning those experiences into voice through music, activism, and storytelling. That lived experience is what grounds how he understands—and writes about—culture, identity, and belonging. At its core, this episode is about identity and belonging—and the power of culture to help people finally feel seen. If you've ever felt caught between worlds, underestimated, or like you had to fight to belong—this conversation meets you there… and reminds you: the story has always been yours to own. Listen to Reppin on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/reppin/id1480913421 Clips on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ReppinPodcast Follow Reppin on Instagram: @reppin_podcast Visit the Reppin website: https://reppin.tv Learn more about Jeff Chang: https://jeffchang.net/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

February 24, 2020, started out like any other day for journalist and television anchor Dion Lim of San Francisco's ABC News. Planning her pitches for the morning's editorial meeting, she checked her Instagram account and saw a message from someone she didn't recognize. Attached was a horrifying video in which men were beating and yelling racist slurs at an elderly Asian man who had been collecting cans in the Bayview neighborhood of San Francisco. Lim felt compelled to investigate the story, help the man who “looked freakishly like my dad,” and bring the perpetrators to justice. Thus began Lim's four-years-and-counting quest to bring attention to the appalling rise of anti-Asian hate and violence in America, which she chronicles in her new book. Featuring an emotional foreword by actress and outspoken anti-Asian harassment advocate Olivia Munn, Amplify! My Fight for Asian America (from Third State Books) brings readers on an eye-opening journey alongside Lim, who has unwittingly become a national hero for her relentless fight for Asian American visibility. Through deeply personal anecdotes about her own life as a Chinese American, exclusive interviews with survivors, activists, and historians, and incisive historical context, she provides the very first book to tackle one of the biggest political and social controversies of this century from the perspective of the AAPI community. Come meet Lim and hear her story. See more Michelle Meow Show programs at Commonwealth Club World Affairs of California. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

00:08 Jeff Chang, cultural historian who won the American Book Award for Can't Stop Won't Stop, his history of the early years of hip hop. His new book is Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America     The post Jeff Chang on Bruce Lee [repeat] appeared first on KPFA.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight on APEX Express, Host Miko Lee focuses on Asian American Men, Bruce Lee and the mano-sphere. She chats with renowned author and thinker Jeff Chang about his new book: Bruce Lee & the making of Asian America, Water Mirror Echo. Then she talks with Rachel Koelzer the Communications Director for Nakasec about their new study of Asian American men and the manosphere. How are images of Asian American male identify being shaped and formed in our current society and what does Bruce Lee have to do with this? Listen in. More in tonight's show Jeff Chang's book: Water, Mirror, Echo Nakasec ReportAsian American Men and Mano-sphere CAAMFest 2026, running May 7-10, 2026, San Francisco's AMC Kabuki Theatre Show Transcripts [00:00:00] Opening: Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   [00:00:40] Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express. I'm your host, Mika Lee, and tonight we are focusing on Asian American men, Bruce Lee and the Manosphere. I chat with renowned author and thinker Jeff Chang about his new book, Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America Water Mirror Echo. Then I speak with Rachel Koelzer, the communications director for NAKASEC, about their new study of Asian American men and the Manosphere. So how are images of Asian American male identity being shaped and formed in our current society, and what does Bruce Lee have to do with all this? First, listen to my conversation with author Jeff Chang. Welcome Jeff Chang to Apex Express.    [00:01:24] Jeff Chang: Ah, it's so great to be here. Miko. So happy.    [00:01:27] Miko Lee: I'm so happy to talk with you about your latest book. You're such a prolific writer, and here you have written a big Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America Water Mirror Echo. Such a mighty title. I wanna start first just a question that I ask all of my guests, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   [00:01:49] Jeff Chang: Oh my gosh. What a great question to start with. You know, my family, my communities, they all kind of blend together, the blood family, the kin family, and the chosen family, for me. I guess I'm always [laughs], I'm first born Chinese Kanaka, you know, I'm always aware that I am, representing, I guess, So I, you know, I carry that family with me wherever I go.   [00:02:16] Miko Lee: I, I think I know what that means. But for our audience that might not know what a firstborn Chinese kanaka means, can you break that down a little bit? What does that mean to you when you say that?    [00:02:25] Jeff Chang: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's just the, i, it it's just a thing of, you know, you're gonna go out and represent the family and, you're thrust into Taking on responsibilities and stuff for your folks, your siblings, your, younger cousins, those kinds of things. I was always very aware of that within the family. My dad's from a really big family, had six siblings and, my mom's from a large extended, family. so that's, That's such a fantastic question Miko. Bruce was the second child, which, you know, birth order and all that kind of stuff. It also squares, I think with, a Chinese family. He felt like he was always in the shadow of his older brother.   [00:03:10] Miko Lee: Okay. Hold on. Let's get to Bruce in a second. I wanna finish with you as an author, creator person.    [00:03:16] Jeff Chang: Okay.    [00:03:16] Miko Lee: Wait, so you are the number one son.    [00:03:18] Jeff Chang: I'm the number one son. Yeah.    [00:03:19] Miko Lee: Ooh, okay. I get it. Yeah. And then what is the legacy that you carry with you?    [00:03:24] Jeff Chang: The legacy. I just have to represent, in a point, a kind of a way, in a proper kind of a way. You know, the family , and those kinds of things. I was also very rebellious. I came back after my freshman year as the Berkeley Radical. My Uncle Fungi was like, oh, here comes the Berkeley radical. Okay. Then of course, you gotta sit down and drink beer and tell 'em , all the stories and that kind of thing. So, you know, just being able to, carry on, a legacy of being upright and being, just, right. And sort of being appropriate in all that you do. just aware of that. Grew up aware of that. Yeah.    [00:04:02] Miko Lee: And then what was your first memory of Bruce Lee?   [00:04:06] Jeff Chang: Ah, I don't have a first memory. He was just part of the ether, you know what I mean? He was part of the   [00:04:10] Miko Lee: Ah, yeah.   [00:04:11] Jeff Chang: Yeah. He was part of the air. I think I came of age, after the generation, like my older cousins who were able to see Bruce in the theaters. We came up the next generation, we saw Bruce on tv. Return of the Dragon would come on and everybody would stop everything and just watch that. During the commercial breaks we're jumping around and kicking each other and stuff like that. I mean that, that kind of thing, right?    [00:04:34] Miko Lee: Yeah, totally. When I was growing up, people would always ask me if I was related to Bruce Lee, because Lee, because that was like, right, yeah, Lee. Yeah. Yeah. There's not a billion Lees' in the world.    [00:04:44] Jeff Chang: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.    [00:04:45] Miko Lee: Yeah. So I get it and I try to explain to my daughters, and our kids are around the same age, the cultural phenomenon that he was, and it's hard to explain it to this generation because there wasn't really other Asian American representation than Bruce Lee when we were growing up.   [00:05:03] Jeff Chang: Yeah. Yeah. And now they have Alysa Liu, you know, they have eileen Gu, they have all of these different folks. So if you don't like Alysa, you could like Eileen. Or if you don't like, if you like Eileen, you don't have to like Alysa. Right. Or you can like 'em both. They have choices.   [00:05:14] Miko Lee: You could like Chloe.    [00:05:16] Jeff Chang: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They like Chloe, right? There's choices. Yeah. Like Chloe's on the Olympic stand with two other Asians. It's just wild. It's a beautiful thing. and it's not like the kind of reality that we grew up in. It's true.    [00:05:29] Miko Lee: Yeah. So what made you decide to write this book? you've written many books about pop culture and around theory and around Americana, and what made you decide to write a book about Bruce Lee?    [00:05:41] Jeff Chang: So the book came to me actually, it was an Asian American editor back during a time, not so long ago, but a while ago, when there weren't a lot of Asian American editors in the business. And he came to me and that was amazing in and of itself. And he said basically, Hey man, you did this book on hip hop. This is back in, the latter part of the two thousands. I wanna imagine I haven't gone back and looked at the date. 'cause it, it actually hurts me to think about it. But he saw you did this book like. Do you think you could do a book on Bruce Lee? And I was like, yeah, I could do that. I was hyped to do that. Please. Because Yeah. 'cause Bruce was our hero. Yeah. Just like we were talking about. The most famous Asian American who's ever lived. It took me a long time to get going and I gotta admit I lost the plot at some point. I just was like, what am I doing? There were books that came out, about Bruce in the interim. there was one other biography that had come out, in the late 2010s,    [00:06:37] Miko Lee: and I think I told you about one of the books. I think it's that book that I read written by a white guy and I wrote about it in good reads because I read a lot and that's how I keep track of the books I read. I don't think about anybody else reading those reviews that I write? It's like writing in a journal or something. Now I use story graph ‘ it's amazing. Not commercial, but at the time I used Goodreads and the author wrote back to me, I think I told you this story.    [00:07:04] Jeff Chang: Yeah, yeah. Tell me. Tell, so what did you write and what did the author write back to you?   [00:07:08] Miko Lee: I wrote that I thought that this author did not understand what an icon Bruce was to the Asian American community, and it was written in a way that didn't, grasp the whole complexity of what he meant to us. He wrote this really, mean note back to me about how he had Shannon, Bruce's daughter's support and he was the one that could tell the story. And I thought, whoa, I was just shocked. That was the first time. Since then, I've had many different authors write back to me, but that was like the first one and wrote back in a mean way. So anyways.    [00:07:39] Jeff Chang: Was it public or this was a private, A private email back to you.    [00:07:43] Miko Lee: I think it's public. I don't know. Have to go look. I was shook at the time. Like what?    [00:07:49] Jeff Chang: Wow. Okay.    [00:07:50] Miko Lee: Anyway, so when I heard you were writing a book, I said, okay, finally, finally. Yay.    [00:07:55] Jeff Chang: Hmm. Yeah. You know, and I'll be honest, I, I had this sort of crisis of confidence. I was sort of like, you know, this is, okay, we'll put it out there. 'cause you already went there. It's Matthew Polly's book, Bruce Lee Life. I read it, he had done amazing research. He had spoken to a lot of people. I thought I was supposed to do this kind of a book. Now there's a particular kind of genre, that folks who are maybe in the industry recognize and, it's called I'm putting scare quotes around this, like the definitive biography,    [00:08:27] Miko Lee: right.    [00:08:28] Jeff Chang: In this particular case, the definitive biography, because he's a movie star s. Sort of coincides or converges with this other genre, which is the celebrity biography. I'm putting scare quotes around that too. So, the mission of a celebrity biographer is really to tell a story of, this celebrity. Is not as cool as you think they are. Like, their crap stinks. They cheated on their spouses. They like didn't file their taxes, they kicked their dog, they said mean things to different people. That's a celebrity biography. It's basically to tarnish the star. and if not, then it's sort of a hagiography, which is sort of a whole other kind of thing. And we don't wanna do that as writers. We wanna approach the truth. But there's sort of a certain kind of thing that comes into play, with Bruce. There's a sort of genre of the take down of Bruce where it's usually men that are writing this, and the men are usually like, well, Bruce was my hero when I was a kid, but now I've gotta take him down. You know what I mean? It's, and so you see it over and over again and, you know, there's a sort of a weird thing going on, especially I think with, white males who have loved Bruce Lee in the past feeling like they need to take him down.So let's say    [00:09:50] Miko Lee: Quinton Tarantino.    [00:09:52] Jeff Chang: Okay, you said it. I didn't, but I was gonna say like Albert Goldman, who was a journalist who famously wrote a take down of Elvis Presley.    [00:10:00] Miko Lee: Right.   [00:10:01] Jeff Chang: and did one of Bruce that was unbelievably racist. Now, I'm not saying that Matthew was trying to do this at all. I think that his scholarship and his work was really, really good. But I, I felt crowded out a little bit. You know, I felt like, gosh, I don't know what there is to say? I was very aware that there were a lot of books that had been written about Bruce and that I was writing into or out of, or in opposition to a tradition.   [00:10:30] Miko Lee: Mm-hmm.    [00:10:31] Jeff Chang: These are the Bruce. Lee Stories. and so at that particular point, in the late 2000 tens, I just said, what am I gonna do? And Lourdes, my partner, walked me up to the park and just tore into me like, what, you're gonna give up now? You can't give up now. You gotta do this, you have to. Who else is gonna do this? And I'm just feeling all that, Chinese Kanaka, firstborn, guilt, responsibility. she's about the only person that I can take a tongue lashing like that from. We walk back the mile to the house and my head was between my legs and I was like, all right, I'll do it. I'll do it. But I didn't know what I was gonna do to be completely real. I didn't know what I was gonna do. So the other thing that was kind of happening at this particular point was I was noticing, and you and I both have, children who are now adults, but at that time they were younger. They were like coming into their own, they're in their teens and that kind of thing, and that particular generation was coming up in some ways. Like we talked about, like they had all of these folks that they could look to.    [00:11:34] Miko Lee: Mm-hmm.    [00:11:34] Jeff Chang: Right. you know, our kids have opportunities in media that we never had.   [00:11:39] Miko Lee: Mm-hmm.    [00:11:39] Jeff Chang: We've had to break through in a lot of ways. And there was also, in a weird way, this sort of entropy around this notion of Asian America. Like young people who call themselves Asian American would also sit around and be like, what even is an Asian American? How do I relate to these other types of folks who are also classed as Asian Americans, or who describe themselves as Asian Americans as well. Like politically, culturally, the kind of food we eat, the way we dress, who we hang out with. Like all of the diversity that we've celebrated for so many years felt like entropy, I think, to them like this is, there's no center to this anymore. Then the pandemic happened and the violence, Was one way of saying this is it's the ice cube moment. This is what they think of you. You know what I mean? Yeah. And, and I think that was what galvanized, especially a lot of young people to find a new sense of purpose, a new sense of activism, a new sense of, how to be in the world And    [00:12:43] Miko Lee: for maybe some young folks who had never felt that they had experienced direct racism before, to suddenly see it really blatant in the community.    [00:12:52] Jeff Chang: Right. And, it was personal. It touched all of us. I know everyone has stories about how we were treated during the pandemic, and especially the women and especially, the queer folks. In a lot of ways it was paradigm shifting and it was paradigm shifting for me too, you know, so I'm writing about this guy who considers himself a martial artist.    [00:13:13] Miko Lee: Mm-hmm.    [00:13:14] Jeff Chang: And he's teaching people about self-defense.    [00:13:18] Miko Lee: Mm-hmm.    [00:13:19] Jeff Chang: And in his career being accused of fomenting violence, like a lot of. Folks in hip hop have been over the years.    [00:13:27] Miko Lee: Mm-hmm.    [00:13:28] Jeff Chang: I'm suddenly like looking at this in a completely different light. What does it mean to think about self-defense and violence and training to be a warrior, right? I have a lot of folks who are in the military. My mom worked for the police department, like what does that mean? For somebody like me who's, essentially anti militarist, who has critiques of the police, as we all should. who's a deep supporter of Black Lives Matter, like how do we think about what it means to, to be a warrior, and also to understand like the dignity, right in wanting to be a protector.    [00:14:04] Miko Lee: Right.    [00:14:05] Jeff Chang: Right. And to, uplift what that means, but to kind of think about all of these existential questions and then at the same time to see Bruce popping back up on our walls and murals and popping up on our feeds as a symbol, right. Of pride. Especially during this particular period, near us in the bay, like in San Francisco, Chinatown or Oakland Chinatown, young people bringing back the image of Bruce as a symbol of pride and also this sort of cry for like, can you see us? This sort of underlying desire to find solidarity. All of this mixed up with this like identity crisis that is now taking a different type of turn. So it was a lot to think about and suddenly I was just like, oh, oh, oh, wait a minute. Maybe that's what I'm supposed to write about. So the book became, about Bruce, but also about Bruce as an Asian American and about him kind of traveling parallel to the rise of the Asian American movement.    [00:15:04] Miko Lee: Yeah, I think it's so powerful that way, that it does tell this whole Asian American history for folks that might not know from, the very beginning of our, coming from the exclusion act to I hotel, to Vincent Chin and not just like politically, but then also cinematically because he crossed over so many barriers for us. So we're also getting Asian American cinema history with Anna May Wong and Sessue Hayakawa, and even the Hong Kong industry. So I love how you combined all these different elements. It's such a wonderful way to look at that. And I'm wondering what made you decide to organize the book into these three categories of water, mirror, echo.   [00:15:44] Jeff Chang: The line came first, Bruce's famous. Epigraph is, be water my friend, and, me being the nerd that I am, I wanted to trace the origins of that and found it pretty quickly, in a sort of, Daoist type of text. called the leads and the full, Section that, had influenced Bruce so much was moving be like water, still be like a mirror, respond like an echo. This is a line that actually resonates through Zen Buddhism as well. It was one of those things where when I first read it in Bruce's Dao Jeet Kun Do, I fell outta my chair. It was amazing. It blew me away. We'd all heard “be water.” We'd heard athletes say it. we'd heard, business leaders, say, we saw the activists in Hong Kong, using it, in the streets. and. Yet to see all of this together was even deeper. That was a window into wow. We think of Bruce as the great popularizer of martial arts. Bruce, he's not recognized as the great popularizer of Asian philosophy, in a lot of ways. It happened during this particular period during the sixties where, views of Asians and Asian Americans were beginning to shift dramatically, opening up in a lot of ways. So we had this phrase, my editor, Akia Clark, and I. She was like, all right, “how are you gonna organize this Jeff?” I was like, I don't know, help me. And she's like, all right, there's a water, there's a mirror, there's an echo here. And it actually tracks to his life and the arc of his story and I was like, “oh, wow. Yeah.” So I can't take any credit. I have to give it to my editor, who is,    [00:17:24] Miko Lee: that's a good editor.    [00:17:25] Jeff Chang: Amazing. Yo, she was amazing. Rekia was like, I signed you because, I grew up and the only Asian I knew was Bruce Lee. She grew up in largely black communities. She was like, I need to know more. , I really want to hear your take on this. And, and So it was a, an incredible collaboration in that way because it was the type of here's where we meet. She was literally giving me free reign to be able to tell me a story. Tell me why we're meeting here. Right. Why were we meeting through Bruce? That ended up giving me so much confidence and focus after I'd had, all of these years of being in the woods and, uh, what am I gonna do? And then, Lourdes is trying to shake me up That's kind of how it,    [00:18:09] Miko Lee: it took that time, that time to simmer, and your creative juices to be able to come up with this.    [00:18:15] Jeff Chang: Yeah. Yeah. It didn't feel. Like it at the time, but looking back now, I'm not the fastest, ho nu in the water.    [00:18:22] Miko Lee: Because you talked a little bit about confidence and how much Bruce shared about, Asian philosophy, which I think is really true. I wonder if you could speak a little bit more about his sense of confidence, both in himself, and then a sense of destiny, like the mark that he was gonna leave on the planet.    [00:18:38] Jeff Chang: It's very interesting to me because I think that this has been kind of, a part of the Bruce Lee legend. It was like he was born for a purpose. I was going through his papers and talking to, his, surviving family members and friends, like it was all improv.    [00:18:55] Miko Lee: Really him saying all those things was improv. What was all improv?    [00:18:59] Jeff Chang: Yeah. I think part of it, I think, well, maybe it wasn't an all improv, certainly he was driven.   [00:19:04] Miko Lee: Mm-hmm.    [00:19:04] Jeff Chang: He was incredibly ambitious and he was incredibly driven and he knew where he wanted to go. Absolutely 2000%, I think he entered this journey, like all of us in our journeys, you know, like we're maybe packed for the journey, but we might find along the way that we don't have what we need. I was attuned to the points where that narrative would break down. To all of the vulnerabilities that he was feeling in different moments. and especially because I got to talk to folks, who knew him, who maybe hadn't necessarily been interviewed in like, the years. His very close Asian American friends, the folks who knew him, off the martial arts training floor. the folks who thought he was weird and kind of corny, folks at UW. All of these folks knew him at the University of Washington. And the, the common thing was, this guy's goofy. He's just had a one track mind. Like, he just wants to like show us like. Like Gung fu things all the time. Like who does that?    [00:20:08] Miko Lee: Like Bruce stop already. We heard that.    [00:20:10] Jeff Chang: right, right. Like punch me like, you want me to punch you? That was funny. You know, I was just, and that was sort of also a mind shift, you know, like    [00:20:19] Miko Lee: Yeah.   [00:20:19] Jeff Chang: It was like, oh, so there was a time before    [00:20:21] Miko Lee: he was revered,    [00:20:22] Jeff Chang: the cool guy. Yeah, before he was the cool guy. Then before he was the guy that was like super suave and like all the, whatever all the ladies wanted and all the guys wanted to be like, that's been the Bruce narrative. So I was attuned to those parts and what strikes me is how much at the end he stuck to his guns. Like folks will read this in the last section of the book, and I don't want to give it away, but this is when Destiny kicks in and Bruce rises to the top and he makes another dragon. He becomes this global star and it was meant to happen. And I was like, no. He was actually fighting every step of the way. Like every day of his life. He felt like this thing was gonna fall apart. At one time, he boycotted his own movie because they weren't giving him what he wanted. Some of his closest friends say the real thing that killed him. People talk about the coroner's report conspiracy, like evil spirits that, but what he really did was like sacrifice himself in a way. That's how a lot of his friends talk about it, you know? From a sense of this deep personal loss of somebody whom they loved so much and who was like there one day and suddenly gone the next, And so, you know, to deal too with that, question of the melancholia that comes with what we experience when we're the survivors of someone we love, who suffers a premature death. In that regard, like I feel like the last part of the book too was deeply informed by. All of the stuff that's come before, with the Black Lives Matter movement. You know, and understanding, that these came from deep sources of grief and mourning and loss. Thinking about what it's meant for Asian Americans to have to look at two generations before we get to the things that Bruce was fighting for representationally    [00:22:14] Miko Lee: Yeah.    [00:22:14] Jeff Chang: You know, before we can get to everything everywhere, all at once. And Michelle Yeoh, receiving the Oscar for that. Like it took two generations. It took Brandon passing away one generation after his father, and then it took a whole bunch of other work that, a lot of folks needed to do in order for us to be able to. Get the kinds of representations that we hoped that we might see after, another dragon. and that, something that, has produced a melancholia in us, you know?    [00:22:48] Miko Lee: Yeah. Yeah.    [00:22:49] Jeff Chang: So.    [00:22:50] Miko Lee: You are talking a little bit about the people that you interviewed and there's so many clearly that you did, and when I was reading it, the backstory of Taki, that was when I thought, oh, this is an Asian American author. I mean, I know you, but it like, including that whole backstory I thought was so powerful and actually helped to build out the story of who he is, who his friends were and how he worked with them. I'm wondering if there's an interview that you didn't get.    [00:23:14] Jeff Chang: So many. So many.    [00:23:16] Miko Lee: Oh really?    [00:23:17] Jeff Chang: Yeah. I mean, I haven't gone back to look at the original contract and the date because so many people passed away. I got started on this, I had three other books that I had to complete from my, publisher at the time this book was signed out of, those contracts. I had had a full-time job then, and then when the, pandemic and BLM sort of reached that inflection point, it was a much more than full-time job. I didn't have time to be able to actually devote the book that I really needed to. I did research over a very long course of time. I did interviews over a very long course of time, but I started the interviews too late, so I couldn't interview Taki.    [00:23:54] Miko Lee: oh wow. Okay.    [00:23:55] Jeff Chang: I couldn't, yeah. Taki, was, alive. He lived to a very old age, but Alzheimer's. Um,    [00:24:01] Miko Lee: oh wow.    [00:24:02] Jeff Chang: Took him, you know? By the time I started reaching out, it was a little bit like too late. I spoke to his son instead at great length. and a lot of other folks around, him. There wasn't just one, there were a million interviews. I didn't get. Taki, I didn't interview Jesse Glover. I would've loved to have interviewed some of his friends From Hong Kong, but we couldn't access them because of the pandemic. I had an amazing researcher on the ground, Winnie Fu who, did a lot of amazing work there and was able to source a lot of stuff for us. There was so many people, and even now, like I was just up in Seattle for the unveiling of the Bruce Lee postage stamp, and I got to meet a friend of his from high school, and so I'm gonna sit down. I've been talking with Shannon's, cousin, Bruce's niece who has been keeping the genealogies of the family. We've been talking a lot. I'm gonna go back and interview her, and so hopefully maybe by the time the paperback edition comes around, I might be able to have some new information that I might be able to throw in in that edition.    [00:25:03] Miko Lee: Yeah. What surprised you most about the research?    [00:25:06] Jeff Chang: I think that Bruce was vulnerable. He felt very lonely a lot of the time. he had set himself out like this huge impossible dream in some ways. he knew his destination. He had no idea how he was gonna get there. That's where I talk about it was all improv. and at different points he despaired. I don't know if these folks are really seeing me, I don't think they really understand me. After the Green Hornet, he couldn't get a job. That he felt was befitting him, you know? So he's taking whatever work he can get. He's working as a fight choreographer for Nancy Kwan. And, just doing what he can and he's relying upon people to put him on. He's doing Gung FU training of a lot of the Hollywood top brass. So he can reach out to them, but even they don't believe in him. They don't believe in him like that. That's why he decides he has to leave. But it takes him literally four years to realize, oh, they don't see me as a main character. They don't see me the way I see myself. Yeah. So I gotta go. Even then he's still trying to get on the TV show, Kung fu. When that door slams and they cast David Carradine yellow face, he's like, oh, that, and that's when the ice cube moment really sets in for him. Like, that's how they see me. That's how they really understand me. After that, he's fighting this battle to try to get back to Hollywood. That's, one of the things he feels like he really wants to do. his thought is that I need to build up as much capital as I possibly can in order to be able to negotiate from a point of, strength. It's just very hip hop. It's very wutang clan. He's able to kind of get there. But he's still gotta fight these battles at the end. They just wanted him to shut up and kick. They gave him a black CoStar and a white CoStar because they were afraid that an Asian lead wouldn't make it. They wanted to name the movie Hans Island. Not Enter the Dragon because, Oriental villains were easier to understand than an Asian American male lead. So    [00:27:00] Miko Lee: that's such a horrible title too.    [00:27:02] Jeff Chang: Oh my God. How can you imagine we would not be talking about Hans Island.    [00:27:07] Miko Lee: I don't know how they thought that was a good idea.    [00:27:10] Jeff Chang: Yeah, it's true.    [00:27:11] Miko Lee: Is there anything else that you would like your audiences that to understand about Bruce Lee?    [00:27:16] Jeff Chang: What I tried to do is portray him in the context that he actually lived in, We've got the legend of Bruce, we've got the stories, of Bruce that have kind of burnished the legend. What I tried to do was to try to put him back as a human being, as a young person walking through Hong Kong streets and the streets of China, you know, down Grant and then, down King Street in Seattle. making it up to the studios, in Hollywood. and what that meant, for him to, actually accomplish all this kind of stuff. Because when we take away the legend, and this is one of the things I was worried about too, back in the late 2000 tens when I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna write. When you take away the legend. I was worried that people were gonna be like, oh, you just want to drag down this guy? And you're like the guy that's just throwing water on our hero. But what I'm, really understanding now is. when you look back at what he went through and what he overcame, he actually becomes even more heroic, to all of us. He wasn't a perfect person. but I think he remains a hero like more than a half century after his passing because of the things that he did.    [00:28:28] Miko Lee: I think that's right and I think you do an amazing job in the book of incorporating this powerful Asian American history and putting, his experience in a time and place that helps the broader world understand what an icon he is and remains. And I really appreciate you for writing this book and taking this time and the amount of energy it took to Percolate really pays off.    [00:28:52] Jeff Chang: Thanks so much. I so appreciate you.   [00:28:55] Miko Lee: So I'm gonna be interviewing NAKASEC on their new study on Asian American Men in the Manosphere. Are you familiar about this?   [00:29:02] Jeff Chang: Oh, I can't wait to read this. I cannot wait to read this. It's so,    [00:29:06] Miko Lee: do you know about this? No. To this report.    [00:29:08] Jeff Chang: I didn't know about it. I didn't know about it. I'm, I'm glad somebody's doing it.    [00:29:11] Miko Lee: Yeah. So they did a whole survey and they found that there is a lot of Asian American men that are part of the manosphere. Mm-hmm. And I'm wondering for you, who's written about Asian American male identity, if you have thoughts about this?    [00:29:26] Jeff Chang: So many thoughts. I was very much thinking about the Asian American manosphere as I was writing this book, because these are my cousins, these are my friends, these are, folks who I've sparred with.   [00:29:39] Miko Lee: Right.   [00:29:40] Jeff Chang: These are conversations I'm having with folks, at the bar over a meal. I'm really interested in seeing how we're able to understand what the appeal of the far right has been around questions, of masculinity in this moment and to win these folks back. I've also seen on the flip side, shifts and changes, around, how Asian American masculinity is displayed sea on social media in this era of a crackdown in immigration.    [00:30:19] Miko Lee: Yeah.    [00:30:20] Jeff Chang: We really do need solidarity. We really do identify with, what Latinos, are going through. What I worry about is that, the Asian American left, our first in instinct would be just to be like, ah, I can't talk to them. it's Gonna like upset me too much. I can't deal with this. Somebody has to,, because that, those are our folks and we've lost them over the last, five years or so and we've gotta get 'em back.   [00:30:45] Miko Lee: And are there folks that you know of that are working specifically on ways to pull this community back?    [00:30:50] Jeff Chang: I imagine that there's a lot of work on the ground that's happening. because this is the, world that I'm in, I look to the folks who are, doing podcasts or doing social media work and, who are, often, men who. Are, you know, kind of like me, like troubled by this development and trying to find a way to speak to their folks as well. I'm monitoring that. I'm not, deep within it, but, like I said, I wrote this book, understanding that, that particular subset of our community. those are the folks that, are the Bruce Lee fans.    [00:31:22] Miko Lee: Yeah.    [00:31:23] Jeff Chang: and are the folks who are, involved in, mixed martial arts and, involved in, athletics and, all these other kinds of things. And, and they're not too far away.    [00:31:33] Miko Lee: Yeah. It feels like there's a disconnect between that kind of loving of Bruce Lee and that world, and interaction with politics, interaction with the current events and how that's impacting them and their families.    [00:31:48] Jeff Chang: Well, I think it's. Yeah. I put that down to the fragmentation of the way that we receive media.    [00:31:54] Miko Lee: Mm-hmm.    [00:31:55] Jeff Chang: You know, and also, of course, the ways in which social media is geared towards the extremes. The way it's geared towards the extremes and towards lifting up the. Loudest crudest voices sometimes. Mm-hmm. That's exactly where the manosphere originates from. Right? That's where it    [00:32:15] Miko Lee: lives.    [00:32:15] Jeff Chang: Yeah. That's where it lives, is inside that pocket. It's about again, trying to get inside of that and what's causing that. What's the melancholia that's behind that? What is generating this rage, this fury, and being able to channel that, fury, that anger into, ways that will actually help not just all of us, but specifically them.    [00:32:39] Miko Lee: Yeah.    [00:32:40] Jeff Chang: That's an organizing problem that we have to take up.   [00:32:43] Miko Lee: Thank you for sharing. I'm gonna send you the research, the report so you can read it and,    [00:32:48] Jeff Chang: uh, I can't wait to break this open. Oh,    [00:32:52] Miko Lee: okay. I appreciate you. Thanks so much.   [00:32:54] Jeff Chang: Thank you.   [00:32:55] Miko Lee: Next up I speak with Rachel Kelzer, the communications director for NAKASEC, about their new study of Asian American men and the manosphere.Welcome Rachel Koelzer, communications Director for NAKASEC. Welcome to Apex Express.    [00:33:12] Rachel Koelzer: Hi. Thank you so much for having me today.    [00:33:15] Miko Lee: Can you first explain for our audience, your organization that you work with NAKASEC    [00:33:19] Rachel Koelzer: So NAKASEC is short for the National Korean American Service and Education Consortium. We are a national network of five affiliated organizations in six states.   [00:33:32] Miko Lee: Thank you. I wanna start with the question I ask all of my guests, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   [00:33:41] Rachel Koelzer: This is a great question. My people are the dreamers. They are the community rooted, change makers who believe that we are accountable and responsible to each other. For our collective wellbeing, our collective liberation, and our collective joy and care for each other. My people are also Korean adoptees, part of the Asian diaspora, and people who have survived challenges of life and still seek joy and to thrive.   [00:34:23] Miko Lee: Thank you so much for sharing. Through your work at NAKASEC, you recently released this report with a big old title, Asian Men, the Manosphere and Social Media, an Inflection Point for Asian American Advocacy and American Democracy. Wow. Can you first talk about what inspired this study?   [00:34:43] Rachel Koelzer: I became aware that there was this ongoing trend and challenge that we were having of not reaching young Asian men. Our followers were predominantly non men. Based on gender and significantly more women following us. Something like 70 30, 80 20. I talked with other organizations who also do advocacy and community based work who also faced similar challenges. I just wondered why. What is it that is preventing us from effectively reaching this large portion of our community that we serve? So from there we went and partnered with Dr. Tom Wong, and really started to dive into exploring the reasons behind it.    [00:35:34] Miko Lee: So let's back up for a second. Can you explain for our audience what the manosphere is?    [00:35:40] Rachel Koelzer: The manosphere in kind of simplified terms, it's a loosely connected network, of online communities, influencers and content creators who focus on men's issues, masculinity, dating, health and fitness, financial wealth, and gender dynamics. It includes this wide spectrum of content, that range from like the more everyday fitness self-help. To more controversial topics, like anti-feminism, traditional gender roles and critiques of modern women in society. The common thread across these, loosely connected, communities and spaces is this underlying thread of traditional gender norms and expectations.    [00:36:30] Miko Lee: So is the manosphere inherently misogynistic?    [00:36:34] Rachel Koelzer: Yes.    [00:36:35] Miko Lee: Well that was a really quick response. Yes. No question.    [00:36:38] Rachel Koelzer: [Laughter] I being real here, you know? Yeah. It is.    [00:36:46] Miko Lee: Okay.    [00:36:46] Rachel Koelzer: So within the broader manosphere, there's also men's rights activists. Some more like toxic masculine type views. There is a little bit of a range, but yes, inherently, there's deep rooted misogyny.   [00:36:58] Miko Lee: So how did you find people for your Study were they self-described people that participated in the manosphere?   [00:37:06] Rachel Koelzer: We partnered with Dr. Tom Wong, who is at the University of California, San Diego to conduct this survey. He used the voter file. They are self-identified Asian men and we set the parameters to be between the ages of 18 to 45. They identified across political ideology, across political party, and started with more general questions around their social media use. What platforms were they on? What, were the reasons that they were on social media. Who did they follow? To get a baseline understanding of where and what they're consuming. We know that they're online. There were questions about engagement with the manosphere.   [00:37:52] Miko Lee: What did this study reveal? What was surprising to you?    [00:37:57] Rachel Koelzer: What was really shocking is that one in five young Asian men are regularly engaging with manosphere content. That's 20% one in five.   [00:38:07] Miko Lee: That's a huge number.    [00:38:08] Rachel Koelzer: It's a huge number. Yeah. They're engaging with this content that is, starting off pretty innocuous like, you want to look better, you want to feel better, you want to have better relationships. What's being embedded in that to varying degrees of, subtlety are these values of more traditional expectations and roles. It's alarming that this that this many young Asian men are regularly engaging with it. We defined engaging, as, commenting, following, sharing. There were questions about how often they're seeing it across their feed, whether or not they're looking for it or not. We found that 35% of young Asian men are encountering manosphere content on their social media feeds several times a week.   [00:39:00] Miko Lee: Are they identifying it as manosphere content?    [00:39:04] Rachel Koelzer: They identified it, yes. In the survey we did provide a definition. Beforehand of what the manosphere was, and so anything within that would have to fall under this category.   [00:39:17] Miko Lee: Are most of those influencers and content creators, Asian American men also?    [00:39:23] Rachel Koelzer: That's a really good question. When both Dr. Wong and our team, NAKASEC team, were doing some research there, we didn't actually come across when we were looking at like the bigger names, right? Tens of thousands, upwards of millions followers. We didn't really come across many of those large followers that are Asian men. The men that are perpetuating it, regardless of their race or ethnic background. I think what that points to, you mentioned white supremacy earlier, but there's this idea and value that's perpetuated of colorblindness. And so in this space, the gender kind of supersedes the race. What was really curious is, later on in the study we also asked, about early childhood experiences and lessons, from the adults in their lives around masculine values, around showing and expressing emotions, and around representation of asian men in the media. A large portion agreed that the overall representation of Asian men is harmful. We know for those of us who have been interrogating our experiences in the world for a while. We know that Asians and Asian men in particular, we're stereotyped, we're troped in a lot of ways, right, of these feminine, unattractive, nerdy, geeky, or you've got the other side, you've got the Bruce Lees, you've got the Jackie Chans, right? There's a flattening that happens and . I think that is where the manosphere is dangerous and potentially even more appealing to communities who feel that they've been overlooked and undervalued, because it offers answers and those answers are really harmful to other communities, but they're still providing answers.   [00:41:28] Miko Lee: Can we speak a little bit more about the perceptions of Asian Americans in the media There's the stereotypes around women being either the dragon woman or the sexual exotic kind of play toy. Asian men, as you were pointing out, it's either the kung fu guy or the nerdy guy or the effeminate guy. Right. There's like not that much distinction. Is that your perception as well?    [00:41:57] Rachel Koelzer: Yes. I think there's been, even from when I was a child and growing up, over the past 30 years, there's been, improvements. But I think overall yes.   [00:42:08] Miko Lee: When I grew up, the only images were movies and television, and there just was not that much. So we did have those stereotype visions, but it was so limited in scope and content. There just was not as much content. Now it's everywhere. There's content in your phone, there's all these different social media apps, there's all these different channels you can watch. I'm wondering how that has impacted Asian Americans men's perspectives on how they see themselves and if that. Just looking at social media and the manosphere and how that impacted, the reason why you did the study and the outcomes of the study.   [00:42:46] Rachel Koelzer: The study showed that 26.7% of the men who were surveyed feel that Asian men are portrayed favorably in social media. That's actually still a very low percentage. 71.6% agree that Asian men are often underrepresented or stereotyped in media and popular culture. Even though yes, there's still greater representation, that there's still the portrayals and the quality and caliber or what that representation actually is, or how it's developed is still significantly lacking. What the manosphere offers, one, it offers answers as to how you might get away from, from those, right? You might be able to get out of that, which is to be this hyper quote unquote, masculine, dominating, character. It points the blame directly away from systems like patriarchy and white supremacy. It doesn't really interrogate what internalized misogyny, internalized racism, looks like and is doing. It's saying. You know what the problem is actually that women are becoming too independent. The problem is that, men are becoming too effeminate, and so there's this combination of race blindness and naming another villain in a way that punches down.   [00:44:32] It's a combination of looking for genuine insight and information to better understand their experiences and they're finding answers, but the quality of those answers and the ways that they're getting pushed to those are very problematic, very concerning. Not just for what that means for women in queer rights and immigrant rights and marginalized communities rights. These kinds of values that are being espoused and normalized. But what that means for, , how someone starts to view themselves and, their role in the world and the impact that that has on the systems, and structures of our society.    [00:45:13] Miko Lee: There's so many interesting things that you said. I heard you say the men are finding a sense of belonging in the manosphere, and they're getting answers and the answers being right wing propaganda, which is being fed to them. Is that right?   [00:45:26] Rachel Koelzer: Yeah, I think that's right. The problem is the quality of the answers that they're receiving. The values that are embedded within that, whether or not they're being explicitly named, it's not. There are, again, if you go further, deeper, there are folks that are very proud to be part of the manosphere. That is a known and a shared identity as far as like we are part of the manosphere.Then there are those, I think Joe Rogan himself is like, I'm not part of that, but if you listen to his content and his messages, right? There's a lot of those traditional right wing, very violent and misogynistic roots that are coming out in there.   [00:46:13] It starts off very innocuously looking for answers, looking to better understand your life, your experiences, and what you can do about it. That's innocuous enough. Right. And there's even, like, there's a lot to be said about that kind of,, what's the word I'm trying to think of,, initiative, right? To better understand and seek resources and things. But unfortunately through a combination of the algorithm. Through investments into these kinds of content creators, , and spaces we're seeing that those proliferating a lot more. And so whether or not young Asian men are intentionally seeking this type of content, they're being fed it regularly.   [00:46:54] Miko Lee: I also heard you this comment about race blindness. I get that it because it's like men, men, men we're men and we're bounding together. But race blindness feels like a rube, if you will, for, white supremacy and misogyny. It's this way of saying we are all one, but very much targeting, specific folks that are not in positions of power and control.   [00:47:21] Rachel Koelzer: Yeah, absolutely. It flattens and erases the experiences of people who have been marginalized through, our laws, our policies, and it stops the need. It stops the self-reflection and interrogation too that is asked of us otherwise, which is to reflect on what power do I hold and what is my responsibility with that power, whether it's, having more privilege because I'm a citizen. Having privilege because you are a man. Even if you are also, historically and presently marginalized because of your race as an Asian person, it reduces that depth and again, that responsibility for self-reflection and interrogation.   [00:48:22] Miko Lee: So given all that, your report says this is a warning sign, which clearly it is and an opportunity. I wonder if you could talk a bit more about what is the opportunity here as we're in this time of great change. Great revolution, the year of the fire horse. Talk about how we can actively disrupt that pipeline to radical extremism.    [00:48:46] Rachel Koelzer: It's an important question and it's an important conversation that we need to have. There needs to be an awareness and an understanding of what it is that, is threatening the health and wellbeing of our community and of our country. What this study showed is we're at an inflection point. The percentages, the numbers, we're not so far down the rabbit hole, but we're like right on the edge. We're like at this tipping point, and so intervention is necessary now. This is a great opportunity for organizations, for community leaders to be having these conversations. To be engaging in political education with their community members to be, educating and informing and connecting with members of their community, particularly young Asian men. And it's an opportunity for these in-person spaces and these digital spaces to be countering the manosphere with our own answers.   [00:49:51] I think that's one of the biggest things, especially when we're talking about a digital space, to be investing in content creators, to be investing in artists, to be investing in doing the work of putting out our own answers and solutions. Explanations and analysis of what is happening. It's a call to action and an opportunity for funders, donors for people who have the ability, to put money behind these kinds of spaces online. There's just this significant disparate investment. It's an opportunity to be really investing in community, really investing in recreating spaces, building out spaces, I'm thinking particularly again, community-based organizations who can be understanding what the risks and threats are and understanding their communities where they are, and not necessarily adding to, but, with this threat in mind, how does that inform the spaces that you're creating or the strategies that you are engaging?Whether it's online or in person.   [00:51:13] Miko Lee: We need to gather up our brothers, our nephews, our uncles, gather 'em all up, talk about our real, Asian American history of resistance, our power, our ability to move forward, connect with that in person, pull them outta the manosphere, connect all together so that we could move forward as a community in solidarity with each other.   [00:51:37] Rachel Koelzer: Absolutely. There's opportunities across the board regardless, of where your particular position is. Even if you're not a part of a community organization or you're a teacher, a parent. One of the things that also came up in this study was that across ideologies, across the political spectrum and across age groups, there was a significant number. It was like close to 70 or over 70% had shared experiences, of being discouraged from showing emotions, from being, from seeing, modeled from the men in their lives, examples of stoicism. Of, more traditional masculinity, more traditional gender norms. And so there is this also aspect of, yeah, bringing in folks, bringing in our nephews, our brothers, our cousins, our friends, our uncles, and a reflection upon what can we do to be, raising our next generations, our current and our next generations, to value themselves and those around them who are different. To be able to express emotions, be able to have deep, reciprocal relationships, , and to have respect and understand what it means to reflect on one's privilege that comes as a result of, an identity in this very hierarchical world, whether it's, as a man under patriarchy or white, under white supremacy. These are skills that can be taught and can be learned. I think that this is also an opportunity to be reflecting on how we as a society understanding these    [00:53:33] Miko Lee: Well, Rachel Koelzer, thank you so much for joining me and sharing about your report. How can people find out more about your work?   [00:53:42] Rachel Koelzer: Thank you so much for having me. You can follow NAKASEC on most social media platforms. Visit our website. We've got tons of resources and information there and check out our local affiliates. You can find out more about them on our website and on our socials. If you are, you know, in the area, would love to see you.    [00:54:01] Miko Lee: Thank you so much.    [00:54:03] Rachel Koelzer: Thank you.   [00:54:04] Miko Lee: Thank you so much for joining us. Just a note that Apex Express will be off air for fundrive until May 28th, but we wanna acknowledge that May is Asian American, native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander Heritage Month, and there are film festivals and cultural events happening all around the country that celebrate our diverse experiences. One Bay Area one to note is CAAMFEST. It's back! The center of Asian American media returns for its 44th year and its festival from May 7th through the 10th is at the Kabuki Theater, a MC in San Francisco with an amazing program of impressive filmmakers. Check it out, maybe I'll see you there and happy AANHPI month. Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about our show and our guests tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preti Mangala-Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by me Miko Lee, and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night..    The post APEX Express – 4.30.26 – Bruce Lee and the Manosphere appeared first on KPFA.

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A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight our show is called Feed Your Heart. Host Miko Lee speaks with the collaborators and creators of the Asian American Pacific Islander Restorative Justice Network: Elli Nagai-Rothe & Tatiana Chaterji.   Restorative Justice is a movement and a set of practices that stands as an alternative to our current punitive justice system. It focuses on people and repairing harm by engaging all the impacted people working together to repair the harm. RJ is built off of ancient indigenous practices from cultures around the globe, including Native American, African, First Nation Canadian, and so many others. To find out more about Restorative Justice and the work of our guests check out Info about the AAPI RJ Network on the Ripple website: www.ripplecollective.org/aapirjnetwork NACRJ conference in New Orleans: www.nacrj.org/2026-conference Show Transcript [00:00:00] Opening Music: Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   [00:00:44] Miko Lee: Good evening. I'm your host Miko Lee, and tonight our show is called Feed Your Heart. And we are speaking about the collaborators and creators of the Asian American Pacific Islander Restorative Justice Network with the collaborators, Elli Nagai-Rothe and Tatiana Chaterji.   [00:01:03] Restorative justice is a movement and a set of practices that stands as an alternative to our current punitive justice system. It focuses on people and repairing harm by engaging all the impacted folks working together to repair that harm. RJ is built off of ancient indigenous practices from cultures around the globe, including Native American, African, first Nation Canadian, and many others. So join us as we feed your heart.    [00:02:01] Welcome to Apex Express. My lovely colleagues, Elli Nagai-Rothe, and Tatiana Chaterji. I'm so happy to speak with you both today. I wanna start off with a question I ask all of my guests, and Ellie, I'm gonna start with you and then we'll go with to you, Tati. And the question is who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   [00:02:24] Elli Nagai-Rothe: Hmm. I love that question. Thank you. My people come from Japan and Korea and China and Germany. My people are community builders and entrepreneurs survivors, people who have caused harm, people who have experienced harm people who've worked towards repair dreamers, artists and people who like really good food.   [00:02:51] And I carry their legacy of resilience and of gaman, which is a Japanese word that's a little hard to translate, but basically means something like moving through moving through the unbearable with dignity and grace. , And I carry a legacy to continue healing the trauma from my ancestral line the trauma and justice. And that's informs a lot of the work that I do around conflict transformation and restorative justice.   [00:03:19] Miko Lee: Thank you so much. And Tati, what about you? Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    [00:03:25] Tatiana Chaterji: Thank you for the question, Miko. The first thing that comes to mind, my people are the people we're, we're, we're coming up on the cusp of a possible teacher strike, and I'm thinking about workers and the labor, movement and comrades in my life from doing work as a classified school worker for about a decade.   [00:03:46] Then my people are also from, my homelands. The two that I feel very close to me are in Finland, from my mom's side, and then in Bengal, both India, west Bengal, and Bangladesh. And my people are also those who are facing facing the worst moments of their life, either from causing harm or experiencing harm as a survivor of violence.   [00:04:08] I think about this a lot and I think about also the smaller conflicts and tensions and issues that bubble up all the time. So my people are those that are not afraid to make it better, you know, to make it right. And I carry, oh gosh, what legacy do I. I wanna say first kind of the legacy of the Oakland RJ movement that really nurtured me and the youth that I've encountered in schools and in detention on the streets in the community.   [00:04:39] Youth who are young adults and becoming bigger, older adults and, and, and also elders. To me. So sort of that's whose legacy I carry in shaping the. Society that we all deserve.    [00:04:52] Miko Lee: Thank you both for answering with such a rich, well thought out response that's very expansive and worldly. I appreciate that. Ellie, I think it was two years ago that you reached out to me and said, I'm thinking about doing this thing with Asian American Pacific Islanders around restorative justice and you're working on a project with Asian Law Caucus. Can you like roll us back in time about how that got inspired, how you started and where we're at right now?   [00:05:22] Elli Nagai-Rothe: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'd forgotten that we, I had reached out to you at the early stages of this miko. The idea for this emerged in the context of conversations I was having with Asian Law Caucus around, anti-Asian violence and restorative justice. There was an enthusiasm for restorative justice as a pathway toward healing for AAPI communities. One of the things that kept coming up in those conversations was this assumption that there are no, or very few Asian restorative justice practitioners. And I kept thinking this, that's not true. There are a lot, plenty of Asian practitioners. And I think that for me reflects the larger context that we're living in the US where Asians are both at the same time, like hyper visible, , right. In terms of some of the violence that was happening. If you roll back several years ago I mean it's still happening now, but certainly was, was at the height several years ago. So like hyper visible around that, but also in terms of like my model minority status, but also at the same time like invisibilized. So that strange paradox. And so my part of that was thinking about, well, what, what opportunities exist here, right? How can we actually bring together the restorative justice, Asian restorative justice practitioners in the Bay Area to be like regionally focused to come together to talk about how do we bring our identities into more fully into our work, , to build community with each other, and then also to build this pathway for new, for emergent practitioners to join us in this work. That's a little bit of the background of how it came to be, and I'd love Tati to speak more to some of that context too.   [00:07:00] Tatiana Chaterji: Yeah, thanks Ellie. Definitely thinking about work that I was doing in Chinatown and San Francisco. I was working with Chinese Progressive Association just before actually Asian Law Caucus reached out to us with this idea. I wanna shout out Lewa and Cheyenne Chen Le Wu, who are really envisioning an alternative process for their the members of this organization who are immigrant monolingual Cantonese speakers and, and working class immigrants. What are the options available to them to respond to harm and violence in any, any number of ways? And one of the things that we really saw.   [00:07:37] Miko Lee: Non carceral, right? Non carceral options to violence and harm, right?    [00:07:42] Tatiana Chaterji: Yes, exactly. That's exactly what we were thinking of is, and in the period of time where people are talking about anti-Asian hate, they're talking about hate crimes and violence against Asian Americans, there's a simultaneous rhetoric and a belief that Asian people love police or want police interventions or actually believe al punishment. And no doubt that can be true for, for some of our community, but it is not the overwhelmingly dominant truth is what I would say. What I would say, and that actually by believing that Asian folks loved the police was its own bizarre and very toxic racial stereotyping that. Very vulnerable communities who are non-English speakers and living un under wage exploitation and other conditions.   [00:08:34] And so what we were doing was looking at what are the ways that we think about justice and the right way to respond to things and our relational ecosystems. And we began with messages from our home and family dynamics and kind of went outwards and, and everything was presented in Cantonese. I'm not a Cantonese speaker. I was working closely with those two women I mentioned and many others to think about. What is. Not just the, the linguistic translation of these concepts, but what is the cultural meaning and what applies or what can be sort of furthered in that context. And there were some very inspiring stories at the time of violence across communities in the city, and particularly between the Chinese community and the African American community and leaders in those spaces working together and calling forth the abolitionist dreams that were kind of already there.   [00:09:28] That people just want this kind of harm or violence not to happen. They don't want it to happen to anyone again. And this is some thing I think about a lot as a survivor, that that is the dominant feeling is like we, you know, vengeance are not desires for some sort of punishment or not, that this should not happen again. And what can we do to prevent that and really care for the healing that needs to happen.    [00:09:53] Miko Lee: I appreciate you bringing up this solidarity between the African American and, and specifically Chinese American communities wanting a more abolitionist approach. We don't hear that very much in mainstream media. Usually it's pitted the Asian against black folks. Especially around the anti-Asian hate. We know that the majority of the hate crimes, violence against Asian folks were perpetrated by white folks. That's what the data shows, but the media showed it was mostly African American folks. So I really appreciate lifting that part up. So take us from that journey of doing that work with a Chinese progressive association, powerful work, translating that also from, you know, your English to Chinese cultural situations to this network that you all helped to develop the A API Restorative Justice Network, how did that come about?   [00:10:45] Tatiana Chaterji: Part of the origin story is, is work that had been happening across the Bay Area. I was speaking about what's happening in Chinatown. There's also this coalition of community safety and justice that really has been diving into these questions of non carceral response to harm and violence. Then on the other side of the bay in Oakland, the Asian Pacific Environmental Network has been working with Restore Oakland to sit with survivors of crime and build up skills around circle keeping and response. So that's just a little bit of this beautiful ecosystem that we are emerging out of. It almost felt like a natural extension to go here, you know, with a pen and restore Oakland. They were thinking a lot about interpretation and language justice. And so this is also just pulling these threads together for more robust future and practice.    [00:11:41] Miko Lee: Thank you so much for making those connections. We'll put a link in our show notes because we did a recent episode on the Coalition for Community Safety and Justice, and particularly the collective Knowledge based catalog, which captures all these different lessons. So I think what you're pointing out is that all these different groups are coming together, Asian American focus groups to, Pacific Islander focus groups to be able to find, alternatives to the Carceral system in an approach to justice.    [00:12:08] Elli Nagai-Rothe: Well, so it came about through lots of conversations, lots of collaborations I feel so, honored to be able to collaborate with Tati in this work. And other folks who were, , partnering alongside the Asian Law Caucus in this larger grant that was being offered to address anti-Asian hate and violence. Ultimately through many conversations, just wanting to create a space that was created for and by Asian restorative justice practitioners. And as far as we know, it's the only. Gathering or, or network if it's kind in the Bay Area, maybe in the nation. Somebody who's listening maybe can chime in if that's true, that's not true. But as far as we know, that's the only space that's like this. And part of what we've wanted to create is certainly first and foremost because this is so much of the work of restorative justice, at least for us, is about relationships. At the end of the day, it's how we relate to each other and thinking of, of different ways than is often modeled in mainstream world about how we relate to each other.   [00:13:11] We wanted to start with those relationships and so. We created space for current practitioners in the Bay Area to come together. And we had a series of both in-person and virtual conversations. And really it was a space to offer to really build this sense of community and these relationships to share our knowledge with each other, to offer really deep peer support. And specifically we were really interested in bringing and weaving more of our cultural and ancestral ways of being into our practice of restorative justice. And so what does that look like? Can we bring more of those parts of ourselves into our work, our lived experiences into our work, and how we address and hold conflict and harm. I'll speak for myself, such a nourishing space to be part of with other practitioners. Just really allowing more of like a holistic sense of ourselves into our work. And what all the things that could that have come from that. So we've been continuing to meet, so what has this been like two years now? [00:14:12] Almost? We had, in addition to the existing practitioners who were based in the Bay Area, we held a training for like an introduction to restorative justice training that built on the things we were thinking about and learning about with each other around our Asian identities. And that was for folks who were kind of in an adjacent field, social workers, therapists, educators, folks who are doing work with API community workers. And so then we train them up and then they join this net, this larger network. And we've continued to have conversations every month, in a community of practice space. For me, such a wonderful space to be able to connect, to continue, explore together how we can bring more of ourselves into our work in a more relational, integrated and holistic way.   [00:14:56] Miko Lee: Thanks so much for that overview. I wanna go into it a little bit more, but I wanna roll us back for a moment. And Tati, I'd love if you could share with our audience what is restorative justice and what does a restorative justice practitioner do.    [00:15:08] Tatiana Chaterji: The big one. Okay. I think of restorative justice as an alternative to criminal and punitive responses to harm and wrongdoing. I think that's where the definition really comes to life. Although people who are in the field will say that actually it's before the harm or wrongdoing happens, and that it's about cultural norms and practices of caring for each other in a communal way, having each other's back relying on relationships, which also includes effective communication and compassionate communication. So Restorative justice in how I've learned it in the, in the Oakland community was, a lot of the practices were carried by a European Canadian woman named Kay PRUs, who's one of my teachers and who had also, studied with first Nations people in Canada that ish and klingit people, and that there's been some controversy over how she carried those teachings and that there's native people on all sides who have sort of taken a stand.   [00:16:12] I wanna name, this controversy because it feels important to talk about cultural appropriation, cultural survival, that circle practice and how circle is done in many restorative justice spaces will feel very foreign to a person who is indigenous, who perhaps has these ancestral practices in their own lineage, their own history and family. And this is because of colonialism and, and erasure and displacement, and. Reckoning with all of this as immigrants who are on native land, you know, from all, most of us in the API RJ network. Just what, what is this? What, how do we grapple with this? You know, how do we do an appropriate recognition of practices and traditions and how do we build and think about interconnection or the inherent and intuitive knowledge that we have to do non-car work, which is at the core, I've sort of expanded off of your prompt, but an RJ practitioner is someone who holds space for for these conversations, kind of when things are the hardest, when there is heartbreak and betrayal and harm or conflict and also what, the work of setting conditions for that not to happen or for the way that we move through those difficulties to go as best as possible.    [00:17:43] Miko Lee: Thank you for expanding on that. I'm wondering if Ellie, you could add to that about like what is a circle practice, what does that look like?   [00:17:51] Elli Nagai-Rothe: A circle practice. It can look like a lot of different things, but ultimately it's being in a circle, and being able to connect with each other. Again, I talked about how relationships are at the core. That might be when we're, when we're in circling together, we are relating to each other. We're telling our stories. We're weaving our stories together that might be happening when there's no conflict and when there's no harm. In fact, ideally that's happening all the time, that we're being able to gather together, to share stories, to be known by each other and so that if and when conflict does occur, we know how to, how to connect and how to come back to each other because the relationships matter. We know. Okay. 'cause conflict will happen. We will, we are gonna hurt each other. We're humans. That's part of being human. We're gonna mess up and make mistakes. And so a prac having a practice to come back together to say, well, what, what can we do to repair this? How can we make this right, as Tati was saying? [00:18:46] And, and so then circling, be circling up and having a circle practice can also mean when there is conflict, when harm has happened, how can we have people be able to hear one another, to understand what's happening and to repair as much as possible. Um, while doing that again in the ecosystem of relationships. So sometimes that's happening with a, a couple folks and sometimes that's happening with a whole community or a whole group of people.   [00:19:10] Ayame Keane-Lee We're going to take a quick pause from the interview and listen to Tatiana recite an excerpt from the A API RJ Network Reflection document.   [00:19:18] Tatiana Chaterji: Mirrors of each other. To prepare for our closing ritual, I pull a small table with a candle and incense from the back room into the circle. This is our last in-person gathering, and we want to end with building a collective altar for the future of RJ that is rooted in the wisdom of our Asian cultural lineages.Please think of an offering to make this vision a reality. I explain that we use our imaginations to sculpt the air in front of us, shaping it into the essence of the offering. As I have done in prison with incarcerated artists who create textures and depth of story without material props, supplies, or the frills of theater production on the outside.   [00:20:01] I volunteered to go first and model how this is done. Standing and walking towards the altar. I bring my fingers to the center of my chest and pinch an imaginary ball of thread. I want to deepen my understanding of Bengali peacemaking and justice traditions. I say pulling the thread in a vertical motion, stretching up and down to create a cord of groundedness. Realizing there are actually many dimensions. I also pull the thread forwards and backwards in a lateral direction, saying this means looking to the past and dreaming the future. I hold this grided net, gather it around my body and ceremoniously place it on the altar. Others echo the desire for bringing forward parts of their Asian lineage that aren't accessible to them. People create shapes with their bodies, making offerings to the altar that symbolize taking up space, staying grounded in a world that is shaky, reciprocity with the earth, ancestors and descendants, bringing in more ancestors permission to create and play forgiveness to self and others. Timelessness with Earth as a mirror and patience.   [00:21:14] Sujatha closes her eyes and forms an image for us through stream of consciousness. She says, I see indra's net infinite with shimmering diamonds. At each point, I notice the goosebumps raise on the skin of my arms as she continues it is as if she has reached inside of me pulling from the sutra of ra, which was part of my childhood. It is a piece of scripture and a spiritual concept that deeply grounds my practice in RJ as an adult. I see her hands, which she has raised, and fingers trembling, glimmering ever so slightly. She speaks slowly carrying us with her in a visualization de drops, mirrors. I cannot be who I am meant to be unless you are who you are meant to be. RJ is the material of the web. This was a rare moment of belonging for me, as I seamlessly reflected in the speech and cultural symbols of a peer seamless. This integration as South Asian and as an RJ practitioner, seamless, being able to hang onto a reference from religious traditions that are hidden in the diaspora or distorted by mainstream social messaging.   [00:22:28] Ayame Keane-Lee We hope you enjoyed that look into the AAPI RJ Network Reflection. Let's get back to the interview.   [00:22:35] Miko Lee: Can you each share what brought you to this work personally?   [00:22:40] Tatiana Chaterji: Sure. As a young activist involved in Insight Women of Color against Violence and aware of the work of Critical Resistance, and I had a pretty clear politics of abolition, but I didn't. Really think that it impacted me as personally as it did when I was in my early twenties and I suffered a brain injury from a vehicular assault, a hit and run that may have been gang affiliated or, a case of mistaken identity. My recovery is, is, is complicated. My journey through various kinds of disabilities has shaped me. But I think the way that I was treated by the police and by the justice quote unquote justice system, which I now call the criminal legal system, it because there was no justice. I sort of don't believe that justice is served in the ways that survivors need. yeah, I really, I got very close to the heart of what an RJ process can do and what RJ really is. I got introduced to Sonya Shah and the work of Suha bga and I was able to do a surrogate victim offender dialogue and then later to facilitate these processes where people are kind of meeting at the, at the hardest point of their lives and connecting across immense suffering and layers of systemic and interpersonal internalized oppression. [00:23:59] Just so much stuff and what happens when you can cross over into a shared humanity and recognition. It's just, it's just so profound and and from that space of healing and, and, and compassion, I've been able to think about. Other ways that RJ can look and have sort of been an advan, what is it evangelical for it? You know, I think that because we don't see these options, I, I, because I knew people, I was able to connect in this way and I would just shout out David uim, who's the one who told me that even if I didn't know the person who harmed me, that this was possible. People so often give up, they're just like, well, I have to feel this way. I have to just deal with it. Swallow the injustice and the lack of recognition. Just sort of keep going. Grit your teeth. I think we don't have enough knowledge of what's possible and so we harden ourselves to that. Yeah, I'll stop there. Thanks for listening.    [00:24:59] Miko Lee: Oh, that's the gaman that Ellie was talking about, right? In Chinese we say swallow the bitter. Right. To be able to just like keep going, keep moving. And I think so much of us have been programmed to just something horrible happens. You just swallow it, you bite it down, you don't deal with it and you move on. Which is really what RJ is trying to teach us not to do, to recognize it, to to talk to it, to speak to it, to address it so that we could heal. Ellie, what about you? How did you get involved?    [00:25:30] Elli Nagai-Rothe: Yeah. And Tati, thanks so much for sharing. I always appreciate hearing. I like your story and what draws you to this work is so powerful. For me, I'll take it a little bit more meta further back. What draws me to this work is my family history. I'm multiracial. My family, my ancestry comes from many different places. And part of that my grandparents, my aunties, uncles, Japanese Americans who were, who were born, some of them, my grandpa, and his family here in Oakland, in this area. And, um, other my grand, my grandmother and her family in Southern California. During World War II, were unjustly incarcerated along with 125,000 Japanese Americans in ways that were so deeply harmful and traumatic and are so parallel to what is happening right now to so many communities who are being detained and deported. And that experience has deeply, deeply impacted certainly my community's experience, but my family's experience of trauma.   [00:26:30] And I'm yonsei, fourth generation Japanese American. And though I wasn't directly involved or impacted by that incarceration, I feel it very viscerally in my body, that feeling of loss, of disconnection of, of severance from community, from family, from place, and, . Even before I knew what restorative justice was, I was in my body striving to find justice for these things that have happened? That drew me into conflict transformation work and ultimately restorative justice work. And that's where I found really at the, at the core, so much of this, this intuitively feels right to me. I didn't wanna have a place of, I wanted to heal. That was what I wanted to feel the feeling of, can we heal and repair and can I heal and repair what's happened in this, my experience and my family's experience and community's experiences?   [00:27:23] That work ultimately led me to do restorative justice work here in the Bay Area. I started doing that work with schools and community organizations. And so I really hold the bigger possibilities of what's possible when we think differently about how we hold relationships and how we hold deep, deep pain and harm and what's possible when we can envision a different kind of, a world, a different kind of community where we can take accountability for things that have happened. And knowing that all of us at, at different places, I know that's true in my family line, have caused harm and also experienced harm, that those things can happen at the same time. And so how can we have a sense of humanity for what's possible when we actually come, come to each other with a humility of what, how can we heal? How can we heal this together? How can we make this as right as possible? So that's, that's a bit of my story.    [00:28:13] Miko Lee: Thank you both for sharing.   [00:28:15] Ayame Keane-Lee Next we're going to take a music break and listen to Miya Folick “Talking with Strangers”   MUSIC   [00:34:05] that was “Talking with Strangers” by Miya Folick   [00:34:09] Miko Lee: I'm wondering, I know this, Asian American, Pacific Islander, RJ Circle, a bunch of it has been online just because this is how we do in these times and I'm wondering if there's something unique and empowering about doing this online. I bring that up because there have been many in person gatherings. I've been a part of this circle, so I'm really happy to be a part of it. For me, the vibe of being in person where we're sharing a meal together, we're in a circle, holding onto objects, making art together is very different from being online. And I'm wondering, if there's something uniquely positive about being online?   [00:34:47] Tatiana Chaterji: I would just say that yeah, the intimacy and the warmth and the sort of the strength of the bonds that we have in this network are, are so beautiful and it's possible to have incredible, virtual experiences together. A lot of us do movement art or theater or creative. We have creative practices of our own. And when we lead each other in those exercises, we are really just a feeling of togetherness. Like that's so special. And for people who have had that online, they know what I'm talking about. That can be really, really incredible. And, you know, we've been in the Bay Area and really in Oakland, but we want to expand or we want to think about what are all the ways that we can connect with other people. Around this intersection of API identity and RJ practice. And so that's the potential, I guess is what I would say is just to really, move across time and space that way.   [00:35:47] Miko Lee: Ellie, do you have thoughts on this, the online versus in real life?    [00:35:51] Elli Nagai-Rothe: I think there's so many wonderful things about being in person because I feel like so much, at least I don't know about your worlds, but my world, so much of it is online these days on Zoom. There is something really special about coming together, like you said, to share a meal to be in each other's physical presence and to interact in that way. At the same time when we're online, there's still so much warmth and connection and intimacy that comes from these relationships that I've been building over now, like two years for some of us. The opportunities are more about being able to reach accessibility, right? Folks to be able to come online and, and potentially even broaden. I mean, who knows what that will look like right now it's regionally focused, but maybe there's a future in which that happens to be outside the Bay Area.   [00:36:31] Miko Lee: And speaking of the future and where it's going. This initially started by, funding from one of the Stop the Hate grants, which sadly has concluded in the state of California. I'm wondering what this means for this, process that it doesn't have any set funding anymore what does the future look like?    [00:36:52] Elli Nagai-Rothe: We really wanna continue this miko and being able to continue to meet and gather in community. Right now we're continuing to meet monthly in our community of practice space to support each other and to continue to explore really this intersection, right, of restorative justice in our idea, our Asian identities. There's so much more opportunity to continue to build together, to create a larger community and base of folks who are exploring and ex doing this work together. Also for the intention of what does that mean for our communities? How can we find ways to take this practice that many of us do, right?   [00:37:27] As practitioners, how can we translate that to our community so that we know, we know at its core that this work, there are things from our cultural practices that are just. So familiar, right? Certain practices around how we you know, this radical, some of the things we talked about, radical acts of hospitality and care are so intuitive to our Asian communities. How can we translate that practice in our work so that we can continue to make this these pathways available to our community? So we hope to continue, we wanna continue to gather, we wanted to continue to build, um, and make space for more people to join us in this exploration and this opportunity for yeah, more expansion of what's possible for our communities.   [00:38:11] Miko Lee: For me as somebody who's Chinese American and being a part of this network, I've learned from other Asian American cultures about some of the practices, well, I did know about things like tsuru folding a paper crane as part of the Japanese American culture, learning different things from different community members about elements that are part of their cultures and how they incorporate that, whether that's yoga or a type of, Filipino martial art or a type of Buddhist practice. And how they fit that into their RJ work has actually helped me kind of expand my mind and made me think about more ways that I could bring in my own Chinese American culture. So for me, that was one of those things that was like a blessing. I'm wondering what each of you has learned personally about yourself from being part of this network.   [00:39:02] Tatiana Chaterji: What comes to mind is the permission to integrate cultural identity and practice more explicitly and to know that there are others who are similarly doing that. It's sort of this, this acceptance of sort of what I know and how I know it that can be special. You know, in the, in the similar way that I mentioned about cultural appropriation and the violence that various communities have felt under capitalism and white supremacist structures. Everything there is, there is, I don't, something, something so magical to just step outside of that and be like, this is, it's a mess. It's a mess out there. We are constantly battling it. How do we actually not make ourselves smaller right here?    [00:39:50] Miko Lee: I totally hear that. And I'm thinking back to this gathering we had at Canticle Farms, where I think Tati, you said, when was the last time you were in a space where you were the only Asian person and how you walk through that mostly white space and what is that like for you and how do you navigate? And so many people in the room are like, what their minds were blown. For me, I'm in mostly Asian American spaces and Pacific Islander spaces, so I'm like, oh wow, that wasn't always true for me. So that's my time in my life right now. So it was really fascinating to kind of ponder that.   [00:40:24] Tatiana Chaterji: Yeah. And I think many of us, I'm so glad that you feel that because many of us, don't really know what exactly our ancestral technologies might be, or even what to name. This gave us, again, permission to look back or to reframe what we know or that we've understood from community as being from various traditions, homelands, you know, longer legacies that we're carrying and just to, to, to, to celebrate that or to even begin to, to, to bring language to that and feel a place of our own belonging. Whereas, I mean, as a South Asian diasporic member of the diaspora, I see so many the words that are coming from Sanskrit, which has its own, history of castes violence and like sort of what the expansion and the co-optation is, is, is really quite massive to the point where I feel like I'm on the outside and I don't believe that I should own it any more than anyone else. But I think if there's a way that it's practiced that is in, in, in integrity and less commodified because it is ancient, because it is medicine. You know, that I, I deserve to feel that, you know, and to tend to be welcomed into it in, in this you know, outside of the homeland to be here in Asian America or whatever it is, and to claim it is something quite special.   [00:41:50] Miko Lee: Love that. Thank you for sharing. Ellie, what about you? What have you learned from being in part of this network?    [00:41:55] Elli Nagai-Rothe: I was just gonna say like, yes, Tati to all the things you just said. So appreciate that. I, it's very similar, similar in some ways to what Tati was saying, like the, the permission giving, the space that we, oh, permission giving that we give to each other, to to claim, like, to claim and reclaim these practices. And I think that's what I heard so often from people in this network and continue to hear that this, the time, our time together and the things that we're doing. Feel like it's, it doesn't feel like a so much about like our, what is our professional practice. And I say professional with quotes. It's more of like, how do we integrate this part, this really profound journey of ancestral reclaiming, of remembering, of healing. And, and when we do that, we're working from this really. A deep place of relationship, of interdependence, of where we're like, our identity and our sense of who we are is so connected to our communities. It's connected to the natural world. And so like how can we, that's part of what I've appreciated is like really in this deep way, how can we remember and reconnect to, in some cases, like practices, pre-colonial practices and wisdom that was suppressed or taken away, certainly in my and family experience, right?   [00:43:11] It was very deliberately state sponsored violence severed those practices. And so some of this reclaiming as a part of my own healing has been really given me more voice and space to say like, yeah, I can, I can, I want to, and I, that's part of my own practice, but also share that with the, the groups that I'm part of. And that feels a little bit. We talked about that a little bit in the network of how do we share these practices in ways that feel authentic, like Tati said, with integrity, but also what does that mean to share these practices in spaces that are outside of, you know, Asian communities? I don't know, like that's a whole other conversation, right? It feels because there is so much cultural co-opting that's happening, right? And so I feel, I think that's why this network is so valuable and, and helpful to be in a space. Of course, it's a very diverse group of Asian identities and yet it's a space where we can feel like we can try on in these practices to see what that feels like in our bodies in ways that feel really like, have a lot of integrity and a lot of authenticity and to support each other in that.   [00:44:12] And so that we can feel able to then share that in spaces than, in our communities and the work that we're doing in terms of, restorative justice work.  [00:44:19] Miko Lee: So how can our audience find out more about these circles if they wanna learn more about how they could potentially get involved?   [00:44:29] Elli Nagai-Rothe: The best way to go is to look at the Ripple Collective website, ripple collective.org. We have some information about, the A API Restorative Justice Network there. I'm hoping that we can continue this. I really am excited about, members of the network continuing to stay in relationship with each other, to support each other. Tati and I are gonna be offering a session at the upcoming national Association for Community and Restorative Justice Conference that's happening in New Orleans in July. We're gonna be sharing what we learned about our experiences with this network and centering our Asian identities and restorative justice practice. We're gonna be holding a a caucus space for Asian practitioners to come and join us. Yeah, so what else? Tati.    [00:45:14] Tatiana Chaterji: We're also compiling reflections from various participants in the network around what this has meant. What, what have they learned or discovered, and what's to come. I think a question that I've had, a question that we've been stewing on with other South Asian, , practitioners is what does you know, what does caste how does caste show up and reckoning with harm doing? And our communities are not a monolith, and, and as we are treated as part of a, sort of like a brown solidarity, third world movement space in the West, there's just a lot of unrecognized and unnamed oppression that is actively happening. So, you know, really like being, being brave and humble to, to, to talk about that.    [00:46:01] Miko Lee: Thank you both so much for sharing your time with me today.    [00:46:05] Elli Nagai-Rothe: Thanks so much, Miko.    [00:46:06] Tatiana Chaterji: Thanks, Miko.   [00:46:07] Ayame Keane-LeeTo finish off our show tonight, we'll be listening to “Directions” by Hāwane.   MUSIC   [00:49:55] That was “Directions” by Hāwane.   [00:49:57] Miko Lee: Thank you so much for listening tonight. Remember to reconnect to your ancestral technologies and hold in the power of tenderness. To find out more about restorative justice and the work of our guests, check out info about the A API RJ network on the Ripple website, ripple collective.org, and about the conference that Ellie and Tati will be presenting at at the NAC RJ Conference in New Orleans, both of which we'll have linked in our show notes.   [00:50:30] Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/apex Express to find out more about our show and our guests tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by me Miko Lee, and edited by Ayame Keane- Lee. Have a great night.   The post APEX Express – 3.12.26- Feed Your Heart appeared first on KPFA.

In the decades since his untimely passing at the age of thirty-two, Bruce Lee's body of work has grown to an undeniably lasting legacy. He went on to become globally recognized after his death, his influence acting as a cultural bridge between the East and West – popularizing martial arts and providing inspiration and momentum for a new arena of Western martial arts films. While the impact of his work can be seen across genres and generations, cultural historian and journalist Jeff Chang is hoping to highlight the barrier-breaking importance of Bruce Lee's life to the development of Asian American identity over the last fifty years. In his new biography, Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America, Chang highlights areas of Bruce Lee's story that have been overshadowed by acclaim. Chang unpacks the stark reality of Bruce Lee as a baby born in segregated San Francisco and a youth living in war-ravaged, fight-crazy Hong Kong. As he found his way back to America as a teenager, Bruce Lee embraced West Coast counterculture and meshed it with the Asian worldviews and philosophies that reared him. Water Mirror Echo – a title inspired by Bruce Lee's own way of moving, being, and responding to the world – explores how these transitions and unique vantage points created a figure whose very presence helped shape the idea of what being an Asian in America is, at a critical time in the early development of the culture. Chang presents this new work in conversation with a panel of figures directly affected by Lee's life– activist and former student Sue Ann Kay, long-time friend Doug Palmer, and daughter Shannon Lee. Water Mirror Echo layers an expertly collected archive of Lee's life with a thoughtfully nuanced analysis of the way Lee defied stereotypes and expectations. The complex biography draws from in-depth interviews, thousands of newly available personal documents, and features dozens of photographs from the family's archive, brought together by Chang's pursuit of heartfelt authenticity. Water Mirror Echo explores the man behind the iconography and shows Lee's growing fame ushering in something even more enduring: the creation of Asian America. Jeff Chang is an award-winning writer, host, and cultural organizer. His previous books include the critically acclaimed Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation, Who We Be: A Cultural History of Race in Post Civil Rights America, and We Gon' Be Alright: Notes on Race and Resegregation. Chang has been a Lucas Artist Fellow and has received the American Book Award, the Asian American Literary Award, and the USA Ford Fellowship in Literature. He is the host of the podcasts Edge of Reason and Notes from the Edge. His bylines have appeared in the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, The Guardian, and more. Shannon Lee is an author, producer, speaker, and acts as the steward of her father's legacy. She is the founder and president of the Bruce Lee Foundation and the host of the Bruce Lee Podcast as well as the short-form podcast A Little Leeway. Her published books include the philosophical guide Be Water, My Friend, and the YA fantasy novel Breath of the Dragon. Doug Palmer is a retired lawyer and the author of the memoir Bruce Lee: Sifu, Friend, and Big Brother published by Seattle-based Chin Music Press. He grew up in Seattle, where he met and learned gung fu from Bruce Lee. While attending Yale University, he spent a summer with Bruce and his family in Hong Kong. After graduating with a major in Chinese Studies and obtaining a law degree from Harvard Law School, he worked in Tokyo for 4-1/2 years. Sue Ann Kay is a third-generation Chinese American with family roots to early Seattle Chinatown (late 1800s) and the current Chinatown International District (CID). She was Bruce Lee's first female student, relishing lessons that included Chinese philosophy and martial arts. Kay is currently involved with grassroots groups like the CID Coalition (aka "Humbows not Hotels") and Eggrolls. She is also a singer with the Seattle Raging Grannies.   Buy the Book Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America Wing Luke Museum Presented by Town Hall Seattle and Wing Luke Museum.  

It’s the holidays and, to round out 2025, the Soundside team is sharing some of our favorite conversations we had on the show this year. For this episode, we devoted the entire hour to a conversation we originally aired last month on Bruce Lee. This year, author Jeff Chang published an in-depth biography on Lee’s life. It's called “Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America." In it, Chang shows how the rise of Bruce Lee mirrored the rise of Asian American identity. In this interview, we talked about Lee’s life in Seattle; his rise in Hollywood; and how his short life left an imprint on Asian Americans that can be felt to this day. RELATED LINK: "Water Mirror Echo" explores the life, and legacy, of Bruce Lee Book Review: ‘Water Mirror Echo,’ by Jeff Chang - The New York Times Thank you to the supporters of KUOW, you help make this show possible! If you want to help out, go to kuow.org/donate/soundsidenotes Soundside is a production of KUOW in Seattle, a proud member of the NPR Network.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

00:08 From Bruce Lee's San Francisco origins during the segregationist era of the Chinese Exclusion Act and family's immigration story, to his role in the lives and minds of young Asian Americans, a new book traces Lee's story. We talk with Jeff Chang, cultural historian, about Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America. “He was a marker of culture, a sign, a signifier that put us in the pop culture conversation,” Chang says. “Folks want to whitewash his story… as if to separate him from other immigrants. No. Bruce was part of a class of people that was completely shunned and looked down upon… He's dealing with racism every day. Part of the story here is to recover that, so people really understand what that means.” Jeff Chang won the American Book Award for Can't Stop Won't Stop, his history of the early years of hip hop. The post Cultural Historian Jeff Chang on the Life of Bruce Lee appeared first on KPFA.

On today's show it's all about Bruce Lee! Writer Jeff Chang has a new book. It's called "Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America."

Water Mirror Echo by Jeff Chang is a gripping blend of biography and history centered on a legendary figure. Jeff joins us to talk about community, Chinatown, the Vietnam War, the 1970s, movies and more with host Miwa Messer. This episode of Poured Over was hosted by Miwa Messer and mixed by Harry Liang.                     New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays) here and on your favorite podcast app. Featured Books (Episode): Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America by Jeff Chang Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation by Jeff Chang The World of Suzie Wong by Richard Mason The Teahouse of the August Moon by Vern Sneider Sayonara by James A. Michener Your Turn, Mr. Moto by John P. Marquand The Good Earth by Pearl S. Buck Peony by Pearl S. Buck Underspin by E.Y. Zhao Flyboy in the Buttermilk: Essays on Contemporary America by Greg Tate Ocean of Clouds by Garrett Hongo The Committed by Viet Thanh Nguyen The Sympathizer by Viet Thanh Nguyen Who We Be: The Colorization of America by Jeff Chang We Gon' Be Alright: Notes on Race and Resegregation by Jeff Chang  

In this live episode recorded at the Asian Art Museum on Bruce Lee Day, we talk with author Jeff Chang about his tremendous new book Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America. Just ahead of what would've been Bruce's 85th birthday (which is today!), we talk about his impact on Asian American representation in media, what he meant to generations of fans, and the intertwined rise of the AAPI identity that Jeff so beautifully weaves throughout the book. True to form, Freesia gushes, but this really is one of the best books she's read in a very, very long time. We really cannot say enough good things about it. Plus, we talk about one of Jeff's childhood comfort dishes, which just so happens to be a Hawaiian version of our childhood comfort dish, his experience growing up in Hawaii, and the culture shock of leaving the island for California. Big thanks to the Asian Art Museum for helping to make this happen and for a great book talk earlier in the day. Whether you're interested in Bruce Lee or the Asian American movement and identity, we can't recommend this book enough.

On today's show it's all about Bruce Lee! Writer Jeff Chang has a new book. It's called "Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America."

Hollywood icon Bruce Lee lived a short, eventful life that changed the trajectory of Asian representation in American culture. This month for our series Full Bio, we learn more about the life, career, and culture impact of Bruce Lee from biographer Jeff Chang. His new book is titled Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America. In today's installment, Chang speaks about Lee's martial arts training, and his move to California. In today's installment, Chang speaks about Lee's career in Hollywood, his untimely death at 32, and his legacy.

Hollywood icon Bruce Lee lived a short, eventful life that changed the trajectory of Asian representation in American culture. This month for our series Full Bio, we learn more about the life, career, and culture impact of Bruce Lee from biographer Jeff Chang. His new book is titled Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America. In today's installment, Chang speaks about Lee's martial arts training, and his move to California.

Hollywood icon Bruce Lee lived a short, eventful life that changed the trajectory of Asian representation in American culture. This month for our series Full Bio, we learn more about the life, career, and culture impact of Bruce Lee from biographer Jeff Chang. His new book is titled Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America. In today's installment, Chang speaks about Lee's family, and his childhood in China.

Get Jeff's book: https://www.amazon.com/Water-Mirror-Echo.../dp/0358726476   Water Mirror Echo—a title inspired by Bruce Lee's own way of moving, being and responding to the world—is a page-turning and powerful reminder. At the helm is Jeff Chang, the award-winning author of Can't Stop Won't Stop, whose writing on culture, politics, the arts and music have made him one of the most acclaimed and distinctive voices of our time. In his hands, Bruce Lee's story brims with authenticity.   Now, based on in-depth interviews with Lee's closest intimates, thousands of newly available personal documents, and featuring dozens of gorgeous photographs from the family's archive, Chang achieves the nearly impossible. He reveals the man behind the enduring iconography and stirringly shows Lee's growing fame ushering in something that's turned out to be even more enduring: the creation of Asian America.   Check out our new bi-weekly series, "The Crisis Papers" here: https://www.patreon.com/bitterlakepresents/shop   Thank you guys again for taking the time to check this out. We appreciate each and everyone of you. If you have the means, and you feel so inclined,   BECOME A PATRON! We're creating patron only programing, you'll get bonus content from many of the episodes, and you get MERCH!   Become a patron now https://www.patreon.com/join/BitterLakePresents?   Please also like, subscribe, and follow us on these platforms as well, (specially YouTube!)   THANKS Y'ALL   YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG9WtLyoP9QU8sxuIfxk3eg Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Thisisrevolutionpodcast/ Twitter: @TIRShowOakland Instagram: @thisisrevolutionoakland   Substack: https://substack.com/@jmylesoftir   Read Jason Myles in Sublation Magazine https://www.sublationmag.com/writers/jason-myles Read Jason Myles in Damage Magazine https://damagemag.com/2023/11/07/the-man-who-sold-the-world/ Read Jason in Unaligned here: https://substack.com Read, "We're All Sellouts Now" here: https://benburgis.substack.com/.../all-we-ever-wanted-wa

Bruce Lee holds a special place in Seattle’s heart – and Seattle played a key role in Bruce Lee’s life. He attended the University of Washington. He taught martial arts around the city. And after his tragically young death, at the age of 32, Lee was buried at Lake View Cemetery on Capitol Hill. A biography by author Jeff Chang traces this journey alongside the cultural and political context in which Lee was becoming the international icon he is today. It’s called “Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America.” In the book Chang shows how the rise of Bruce Lee mirrored the rise of Asian American identity and the ways that they each shaped each other. GUEST: Jeff Chang, author of "Water Mirror Echo" RELATED LINKS: Book Review: ‘Water Mirror Echo,’ by Jeff Chang - The New York Times ‘Water Mirror Echo’ explores how Bruce Lee still shapes Asian America Remembering Bruce Lee, and his time in Seattle, on the 80th anniversary of his birth | The Seattle Times Thank you to the supporters of KUOW, you help make this show possible! If you want to help out, go to kuow.org/donate/soundsidenotes Soundside is a production of KUOW in Seattle, a proud member of the NPR Network.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jeff and Phil welcome creator/star Angela Wong Carbone and actors Celia Au and Derek Basco -- voices behind the new comedy fiction podcast Minor Legends (part of the Potluck Podcast Collective), an ambitious narrative project that's "a little cringe, a little crazy" that delves into the funny, weird and wild side of Asian America. Angela talks about being inspired to create a multi-dimensional showcase for her community of hugely creative friends; Celia and Derek talk about summoning/channeling their Asian parent vibes ("Ai-yaaaahh!") for their roles. Also: The Good, The Bad, and WTF of making Minor Legends. Plus: stick around to the end and listen to a bonus episode of Minor Legends. 

Author and cultural critic Jeff Chang's new book is “Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America”.  The world's most celebrated martial artist and one of the best-known action stars ever, Bruce Lee is a global icon.  Born in San Francisco in 1940, Lee spent his childhood in war-ravaged Hong Kong, where he began his acting career in its emerging film industry.  When he returned to the US at the age of 18, Lee studied philosophy and drama, and taught martial arts to major Hollywood actors before becoming a star himself.  On September 25, 2025, Jeff Chang talked to journalist, podcaster, and educator Shereen Marisol Meraji about his biography of Bruce Lee and his role in Asian American culture. 

Jeff and Phil celebrate the 300th episode of They Call Us Bruce and welcome writer/scholar Jeff Chang, author of Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America, recorded live at Skylight Books in Los Angeles. He talks about writing a biography of Bruce Lee that authentically centers the man behind the legend, while doubling as a stealth culturally history of Asian America, in a way that it's never been told before. They discuss Bruce's rough-and-tumble (and highly cinematic) teen years; how young Bruce was actually kind of awkward (and annoying); and the hard-fought Asian American journey to becoming a global icon. Also: The Good, The Bad, and The WTF of writing Water Mirror Echo. 

“Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown,” were, of course, the closing words from Polanski's 1974 movie, Chinatown. But the point of Jeff Chang's new biography of Bruce Lee, Water Mirror Echo, is that by 1973, when Lee died, Asian America was more than just Chinatown. Lee made Asian America, Chang argues, by giving Asian Americans dignity. Chang shows how Lee's journey from segregated Seattle and San Francisco neighborhoods to global stardom paralleled the rise of Asian American political consciousness. His films weren't just action movies but anti-colonial spectacles - kicking down “No Chinese and Dogs” signs, fighting for workers against bosses, defending communities against gentrification. After Bruce Lee, chinatown became more, so much more, than just chinatown.1. Lee was an “anchor baby” who embodied the immigrant struggle Born in San Francisco in 1940 during Chinese Exclusion, Lee lived in segregated neighborhoods and learned firsthand what it meant to be a racialized minority - making him a powerful symbol for those Trump-era immigration debates Chang references.2. His movies were explicitly political, not just action films From labor solidarity in The Big Boss to anti-colonialism in Fist of Fury to fighting gentrification in Way of the Dragon, Lee's films consistently championed underdogs against oppressors.3. Lee's rise paralleled the birth of “Asian American” identity Just as the term “Asian American” emerged in Berkeley in 1968, Lee was transforming from Hollywood sidekick to global hero, giving form to a new political consciousness that refused second-class status.4. Hollywood's racism forced Lee to find stardom in Asia After losing the Kung Fu role to David Carradine in yellowface, Lee had to return to Hong Kong to be seen as a leading man - becoming Asia's biggest star in six months.5. Hip-hop embraced Lee through shared spaces of segregation Inner-city theaters showed both Blaxploitation and kung fu films to the same audiences, creating an unexpected solidarity between Black and Asian communities that continues through artists like Wu-Tang Clan.Keen On America is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe

Guest: Jeff Chang is an award-winning journalist and author who has written extensively on culture, politics, the arts and music.  He is the author of the books Who We Be: The Colorization of America.  We Gon' Be Alright: Notes on Race and Resegregation;  Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation; and his latest, Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America. The post The Legendary Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America appeared first on KPFA.

In WATER MIRROR ECHO: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America (Mariner Books; on sale 9/23/2025), award-winning author Jeff Chang delivers a groundbreaking cultural biography of Bruce Lee, timed to Lee's 85th birthday year in 2025. Drawing on thousands of personal documents (including letters, diaries, and rare photos) and exclusive, in-depth interviews with Lee's inner circle (including his first love, close friends, and early fighting mentors), Chang offers a stunning dual portrait: the complex human story of Lee and the extraordinary, untold story of the creation of Asian America. Through Lee's experiences, Chang charts the rise of Asian America as a powerful political and cultural force that endures to this dayBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-unplugged-totally-uncut--994165/support.

In WATER MIRROR ECHO: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America (Mariner Books; on sale 9/23/2025), award-winning author Jeff Chang delivers a groundbreaking cultural biography of Bruce Lee, timed to Lee's 85th birthday year in 2025. Drawing on thousands of personal documents (including letters, diaries, and rare photos) and exclusive, in-depth interviews with Lee's inner circle (including his first love, close friends, and early fighting mentors), Chang offers a stunning dual portrait: the complex human story of Lee and the extraordinary, untold story of the creation of Asian America. Through Lee's experiences, Chang charts the rise of Asian America as a powerful political and cultural force that endures to this dayBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/arroe-collins-like-it-s-live--4113802/support.

"When I got back to [writing], it was like an athlete or a martial artist coming back to the practice, and the endorphins start running back. And you remember the joy that you had in it, also the struggles of it, but you're back in it, and then I couldn't be stopped," says Jeff Chang, author of Water, Mirror, Echo.Today we have Jeff Chang, and what a great conversation this was. He's the author of the beefy biography Water, Mirror, Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America. It's published by Mariner Books, so we share a publisher here. Pretty cool.He's also the author of Can't Stop, Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation, which was the winner of the American Book Award, Who We Be: A Cultural History of Race in Post-Civil Rights America, and We Gon' Be Alright: Notes on Race and Resegregation.He's a writer, host, and cultural organizer known for his work in culture, politics, the arts, and music. His work has appeared in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, The Guardian, Los Angeles Times, and the Believer, among many others. He has a great Substack at zentronix.substack.com and you can follow him on Instagram @zentronix. You can learn more about Jeff at jeffchang.net.We talk about: How hip-hop influenced his work Trust and relationships Voice Compression And stealing time to writeWhy don't you settle in?Order The Front RunnerNewsletter: Rage Against the AlgorithmWelcome to Pitch ClubShow notes: brendanomeara.com

Bruce Lee changed American pop culture forever, and his incredible legacy is more relevant than ever. But how did he go from child actor in Hong Kong to one of the most important action-movie stars of all time? To find out more, we talk to Jeff Chang, author of a new book called Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America. Plus contributing host Naseem Jamnia tells us everything science has learned about fungi recenlty — and explains why science fiction has a lot of catching up to do. Show notes: www.ouropinionsarecorrect.com/shownotes

Jeff Chang, in his new biography "Water Mirror Echo," explores how the short of life of Bruce Lee helped make Asian America. Born in San Francisco's Chinatown, Lee was denied the lead role in Warner Bros.'s 1970s TV series "Kung Fu," which was given instead to David Carradine in yellowface. Lee's collision with Hollywood rejection became a catalyst for his rise at a time of emergent Asian American political consciousness. Chang discusses how Lee became a global symbol of Asian American dignity, and how his legend has only grown in the decades since his death.

In last week's episode of the Book Review podcast, host Gilbert Cruz and his fellow editor Joumana Khatib offered a preview of some of the fall's most anticipated works of fiction. This week they return to talk about upcoming nonfiction, from memoirs to literary biographies to the latest pop science offering from the incomparable Mary Roach.Books discussed in this episode:“All the Way to the River,” by Elizabeth Gilbert“Dark Renaissance: The Dangerous Times and Fatal Genius of Shakespeare's Greatest Rival,” by Stephen Greenblatt“Mother Mary Comes to Me," by Arundhati Roy“Poems and Prayers,” by Matthew McConaughey“The Tragedy of True Crime: Four Guilty Men and the Stories That Define Us,” by John J. Lennon“We The People: A History of the U.S. Constitution," by Jill Lepore“Electric Spark: The Enigma of Dame Muriel,” by Francis Wilson“Joyride: A Memoir," by Susan Orlean“Next of Kin,” by Gabrielle Hamilton“Paper Girl,” by Beth Macy“Water Mirror Echo: Bruce Lee and the Making of Asian America,” by Jeff Chang“Book of Lives," by Margaret Atwood”The Great Contradiction: The Tragic Side of the American Founding,” by Joseph J. Ellis“History Matters," by David McCullough“The Wounded Generation: Coming Home After World War II,” by David Nasaw“Family of Spies: A World War II Story of Nazi Espionage, Betrayal and the Secret History Behind Pearl Harbor,” by Christine Kuehn“Replaceable You: Adventures in Human Anatomy," by Mary Roach Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

There's no such thing as a neutral reading of the Bible. Every reading is inflected by first-person experience, cultural context, history, and more. In this episode, biblical scholars Janette Ok and Jordan J. Ryan join Mark Labberton to reflect on The New Testament in Color, a groundbreaking new biblical commentary that brings together diverse voices across racial, cultural, and social locations. They share how their own ethnic and cultural backgrounds as Asian American and Filipino Canadian readers shaped their understanding of Scripture, the importance of social location, using the creeds as guardrails for hermeneutics, and how contextual interpretation deepens biblical authority rather than diminishing it. Episode Highlights “There is no such thing as a neutral reading of the Bible.” —Mark Labberton “It really dawned on me the importance of being aware of who I am, my family background, my history in the United States, all these things.” —Janette Ok “Filipinos I think are always sort of on the margins… trying to understand how Asian we really are or aren't.” —Jordan J. Ryan “Objectivity is nothing more than the fruit of authentic subjectivity.” —Jordan J. Ryan quoting Bernard Lonergan “Colorblindness is actually something that's not true… particularity is fundamental to the gospel.” —Janette Ok “It was one of the most freeing experiences that I've had because it finally gave me permission to do the thing that I'd always wanted to do.” —Jordan J. Ryan Helpful Links and Resources The New Testament in Color: A Multiethnic Commentary on the New Testament (IVP Academic) About Janette Ok Janette Ok is associate professor of New Testament at Fuller Theological Seminary. A leading scholar in Asian American biblical interpretation, she is a co-editor of The New Testament in Color and author of Constructing Ethnic Identity in 1 Peter. About Jordan Ryan Jordan Ryan is associate professor of New Testament at Wheaton College and Graduate School, and author of The Role of the Synagogue in the Aims of Jesus and From the Passion to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. His research explores Acts, archaeology, and Filipino American biblical interpretation. Show Notes The New Testament in color and contextual biblical Interpretation “There is no such thing as a neutral reading of the Bible.” Janette's growing up in a Korean immigrant church in Detroit, carrying “the weight of assimilation.” Asian American literature, especially Bone by Fae Myenne Ng Opening our eyes to the power of articulating immigrant experience Jordan Ryan's mixed-race Canadian upbringing—Filipino mother, white father—and early encounters with Scripture through unhoused communities. “Filipinos are always sort of on the margins of Asian America.” —Jordan Ryan Contextual reading of the bible All readings are contextual, contrasting liberation theology, unhoused readers, and Western academic traditions Challenges and dangers of contextualization “The first danger is to think that we can remove ourselves from the work of textual interpretation.” Social location is not an external lens but intrinsic to the gospel. “Objectivity is nothing more than the fruit of authentic subjectivity.” Archaeology that informs contextual questions “Colorblind” readings ignore particularity and miss the incarnational nature of Scripture. Biblical authority and the living word Biblical authority as central: “It's why I teach at Wheaton College and not somewhere else.” “When we say the Bible is the living Word of God… it means it has to speak to us today.” Preachers already contextualize every Sunday; The New Testament in Color makes this explicit and communal New Testament in Color was initiated by Esau McCaulley in 2018 Preceded by works like True to Our Native Land and Women's Bible Commentary Distinctive by gathering scholars from African American, Latino, Asian American, Native American, and European American backgrounds in one volume Goal: Embody diversity without sacrificing particularity or biblical trust. Commentary on Acts, including Filipino American theology and diaspora identity “It was one of the most freeing experiences that I've had.” He traced themes of foreignness, colonialism, and God's care for the imprisoned in Acts 1 Peter and Asian American biblical interpretation, wrestling with exile, belonging, and “perpetual foreigner” stereotypes Home as central theological concern—“not everyone feels at home in the same way.” —Janette Ok Editing, diversity, and reader reception Balancing freedom with theological boundaries rooted in the creeds Diversity created unevenness, but also richness and authenticity. “The fingerprints that make it so living.” —Janette Ok Professors report the book resonates with students of color whose lived experiences often feel absent in traditional scholarship “Sometimes people don't know where to begin… I encourage my students to always consult scholars who read and look differently from themselves.” Production Credits Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment magazine and Fuller Seminary.

Water Mirror Echo is Dr. Jeff Chang's ambitous and deeply empathetic cultural biography of Bruce Lee that goes beyond myth, revealing the man behind the legend while tracing how Lee's life helped shape the emergence of Asian America. Chang's storytelling deftly intertwines Lee's personal narrative with broader social currents--highlighting Asian American student activism, racial solidarity, and cultural resistance. By drawing from in-depth interviews, newly released personal papaers, and rare family photographs, Chang is able to pierce the iconography and reveal Lee's complexity--his vulnerabilities, perseverance, and influence. And by humanizing Lee, Chang reframes him as a creator of cultural identity, not just an action hero. Chang delivers more than a portrait of Bruce Lee--he offers a meditation on identity, visibility, and the shaping of Asian American culture. Lee's life becomes a lens to explore how individuals and symbols can birth movements, challenge stereotypes, and redefine belonging. His book will be available for purchase on September 23, 2025.

Simon and Rachel speak with the novelist and academic Viet Thanh Nguyen. Born in Vietnam, Viet came to the United States as a refugee in 1975. He completed a PhD in English at Berkeley, moved to Los Angeles for a teaching position at the University of Southern California, and has been there ever since, now as a chair of English and Professor of American Studies and Ethnicity. Viet's first novel, "The Sympathizer", published in 2015, won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction and became a New York Times bestseller. HBO also turned "The Sympathizer" into a TV series in 2024, directed by Park Chan-wook. Viet's other books include "The Committed", a sequel to "The Sympathizer", "Nothing Ever Dies: Vietnam and the Memory of War" (a finalist for the National Book Award in non-fiction and the National Book Critics Circle Award) and "Race and Resistance: Literature and Politics in Asian America". We spoke to Viet about branching from academia into writing fiction, "The Sympathizer", and "The Cleaving," an anthology of work by Vietnamese diaspora writers.  We've made another update for those ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠who support the podcast on the crowdfunding site Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. We've added 40 pages of new material to the package of successful article pitches that goes to anyone who supports the show with $5 per month or more, including new pitches to the New York Times, the Washington Post and the BBC. The whole compendium now runs to a whopping 160 pages. For Patreons who contribute $10/month we're now also releasing bonus mini-episodes. Thanks to our sponsor, Scrivener, the first ten new signs-ups at $10/month will receive a lifelong license to Scrivener worth £55/$59.99 (eight are left). This specialist word-processing software helps you organise long writing projects such as novels, academic papers and even scripts. Other Patreon rewards include signed copies of the podcast book and the opportunity to take part in a monthly call with Simon and Rachel.A new edition of “Always Take Notes: Advice From Some Of The World's Greatest Writers” - a book drawing on our podcast interviews - is available now. The updated version now includes insights from over 100 past guests on the podcast, with new contributions from Harlan Coben, Victoria Hislop, Lee Child, Megan Nolan, Jhumpa Lahiri, Philippa Gregory, Jo Nesbø, Paul Theroux, Hisham Matar and Bettany Hughes. You can order it via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Amazon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Waterstones⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.You can find us online at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠alwaystakenotes.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, on Twitter @takenotesalways and on Instagram @alwaystakenotes. Always Take Notes is presented by Simon Akam and Rachel Lloyd, and produced by Artemis Irvine. Our music is by Jessica Dannheisser and our logo was designed by James Edgar.

Third generation Japanese American Philip Kan Gotanda has gained renown as one of the most prolific Asian American playwrights, filmmakers, and musicians, but he came this close to becoming a lawyer. East West Players (www.eastwestplayers.org) is remounting his seminal play Yankee Dawg You Die in July 2025 after first staging it in 2001. Here's your chance to let him educate you about the (sadly) still-relevant message of this play, while he regales you with astonishing and hilarious stories of his journey to embrace his calling as a pioneering artist.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Host Miko Lee celebrates AAPINH Month by interviewing Filmmakers: Sara Kambe Holland, Alleluiah Panis, and Kyle Casey Chu, also known as Panda Dulce. We also cover a bunch of AAPINH month events happening throughout the Bay Area.   Calendar of Events Community Calendar May 3 2-6pm Daly City AAPI Fest celebrating local Asian American & Pacific Islander culture in Daly City and the Greater San Francisco Bay Area     May 10 10am-12pm PT Our Heritage 5K 2025  a FREE, family-friendly 5K fun walk/run honoring the rich history and contributions of Asian American and Pacific Islander communities in San Francisco. This scenic route winds through the heart of the city, passing by over 16+ historic AAPI landmarks—featuring goodies, resources, and fun facts about its cultural significance. Expect cheer stations, photo ops, sweet treats, and entertainment along the route to keep the energy high! May 10th is also AAPI Mental Health Day! The Our Wellness Festival, will celebrate mental health, community, and joy. The festival will feature family-friendly activities, carnival-style games, music, dancing, wellness resources, and more! May 23 at 5:30 pm – 8:30 pm Asian American and Pacific Islander LGBTQ2S+ Mixer NJAHS Peace Gallery 1684 Post Street, San Francisco Children's Fairyland in Oakland, and Stanford's Asian American studies department host a series of events throughout the month that we will post in the show notes for you to check out.  Bay Area Public Libraries AAPI Month Oakland public libraries feature reading lists for all ages, a grab and grow seedling kit and events like watermelon kimchi making!San Francisco Public Libraries There will be events for all ages at Library locations throughout the City, including free author talks, book clubs, film screenings, crafts, food programs and musical and dance performances. San Jose Public libraries host a series of events with a highlights being Tapa Cloth making on May 6 and Vegan Filipino Cooking with Astig Vegan on May 7 Berkeley public libraries   CAAMFest 2025 United States of Asian America Through June 1    Transcript: Filmmakers Exploring Boundaries   Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:00:57] Welcome to Apex Express and happy Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month. Even though the Trump administration has eliminated recognizing cultural heritage months, we are still celebrating diversity and inclusion. Here at Apex Express and KPFA, we believe in lifting up people's voices. And tonight on Apex Express, we are focusing on Asian American filmmakers exploring boundaries. Host Mika Lee talks with filmmakers, creators, writers Sarah Kambe Holland, Alleluiah Panis, and Kyle Casey Chu, also known as Panda Dulce. Join us on Apex Express.    Miko Lee: [00:01:51] Welcome, Sarah Kambe Holland, the amazing young filmmaker, writer, director, here to talk about your very first film, egghead and Twinkie. Welcome to Apex Express.    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:02:04] Thanks so much for having me.   Miko Lee: [00:02:06] So first I'm gonna start with a personal question, which is an adaptation from the amazing poet Chinaka Hodges. And my first question is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:02:19] Oh wow. What a great question. , I think that I represent my family and my heritage. I'm mixed, so I'm half Japanese and half British. I grew up partially in Japan and partially in the States. I feel like those experiences, my family, they make up who I am and the stories that I wanna tell.   Miko Lee: [00:02:41] And what legacy do you carry with you?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:02:45] I think the legacy of my family, my grandparents on both sides have overcome so much, and, , they're a big inspiration to me. Funny enough, my grandparents play kind of a secret role in this film. My grandparents on my mom's side were incarcerated in the Japanese American camps. My grandmom, my British side overcame a lot of adversity as well in her life. , I think that's the legacy that I carry.    Miko Lee: [00:03:09] Thank you. Tell me a little more, what secret role do your grandparents play in the film?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:03:14] all my grandparents have always been very supportive of, my art and my filmmaking. But my grandparents on my mom's side, they passed away ahead of the making of this film. And I inherited my grandfather's car. And that car is the car in the movie that, Egghead Twinkie drive cross country. So I like to think that this is their way of supporting me. I think that they would get a kick out of the fact that their car is like a main character in the film,    Miko Lee: [00:03:41] literally carrying you on your journey. I had so much fun watching the film. Can you share with our audience a little bit about what the film is about and what inspired you to create this?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:03:52] So the film is called Egghead and Twinkie, and it's about this mixed Asian teenage lesbian named Twinkie who's coming out and her best friend Egghead, who unfortunately is in love with her and she does not feel the same. , and they end up going on this cross country road trip to meet Twinkie Online love interest IRL for the very first time. So it's kind of like a buddy comedy road trip movie. Coming of age queer story, , and it's one that's very personal to me, I think is a mixed Asian queer person. This was a story I was drawn to tell because it was a story that I didn't really see on screen when I was growing up.   Miko Lee: [00:04:30] Can you talk to me a little bit more about the use of the name Twinkie, which for many folks in the A API community is seen as a slur, and I know she talks about it a little in the film, but can you share more how you came up with that?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:04:44] Yes, it's a very nuanced thing and it's something I was kind of nervous to tackle, especially like in a comedy film. , but really with the creation of Twinkie's character, , I feel like she's going on this journey to embrace herself as a lesbian, as a gay woman, but then also I think that she's searching for herself as a mixed Asian person. I feel like within the Asian American community, if you're raised here in the US or if you're mixed or if you're adopted, I think that there can be this feeling of not feeling Asian enough. I think the word Twinkie was something that was kind of weaponized against her. Like, oh, you know, you're not Asian enough, you're a Twinkie. And her way of coping with that is to kind of reclaim that word and kind of own that. As her own name.    Miko Lee: [00:05:31] Thank you so much for sharing. I read online that this is the very first feature film to be crowdfunded on TikTok. Can you talk a little bit about, I know your background is in as a social media creator. Can you talk about that journey from social media creator to filmmaker?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:05:51] Yes. Yeah. TikTok and social media was such a big part of getting this film made. Uh, so for myself, yeah. I was a YouTuber before I was a filmmaker. I should be clear, I wasn't like PewDiePie or anything like that. I had like 40,000 followers. Um, but for me at that time when I was like 15, 16, that felt like the whole world. Um, and I think that YouTube was really my first introduction to. Storytelling, but also to making friends with people through the internet. And that ended up being a really big influence on this film because Twinkie is traveling cross country to meet a girl that she meets online. And I think that that is such a common story nowadays. Like people make friends online all the time. Um, and the ways that we find love and community has changed.Because of the internet. Um, so it felt very appropriate that we turned to TikTok turned to social media as a means to raise money for this film. Uh, we did a whole targeted crowdfunding campaign on TikTok and we raised over $20,000 from a lot of strangers that I will never meet, but I owe a lot of thanks to.   Miko Lee: [00:06:53] So now that the film has been going out to different festivals and being screened at different places, have any of those that participated in the crowdfund, have you met any of those kind of anonymous supporters?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:07:05] Yes. And that was crazy. it was awesome. We screened it over 40 festivals all around the world. Our international premiere was at the British Film Institute in London. And it was at that screening that someone raised their hand during the q and a and they were like, I just wanted you to know that I backed your movie, uh, and I found you on TikTok. And that just blew my mind that someone on the other side of the world, you know, had donated whatever, you know, 10, 20 bucks to making this thing a reality.   Miko Lee: [00:07:31] Oh, I love that when the anonymous becomes real like a person in front of you that you can actually meet. How fun. I'm wondering if your use of animation is, , been influenced by your social media background.    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:07:45] Not really. Actually. I think the animation part of this film is just because I'm a total nerd. I really love animation, I love comics. And so that kind of bled into Twinkies character. You know, she loves comics, she wants to be an animator. And, uh, I think I've always been interested in the idea of combining 2D animation with live action footage. I feel like that's something that we see a lot in like children's movies or, um.Music videos, but it's not something that you really see in like, feature films all that often. So I was kind of excited to explore that, and it was a really fun collaboration with myself and our lead animator, Dylan Ello, who did most of the animations in the movie.   Miko Lee: [00:08:28] Oh, thank you for that. I, I, it was very delightful. Um, I'm wondering, because we're, our world right now is incredibly complicated and so conflicted. How do you feel filmmaking can make a difference?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:08:44] I feel like art is more important now than ever because I see even in just this film's journey how art literature and movies, it can change people's minds and they don't even realize that their minds are changing.I think especially with this film, 'cause it's so lighthearted and funny and silly, you'd be like, oh, it's just, you know, a good laugh and that's it. But, but not really. I've seen this film. Open doors and open conversations. And I think that that's really my hope is that maybe, you know, parents who have a queer kid and they're not sure what to do about it, maybe they'll watch this film and they'll be able to talk to their kid about things that maybe they're afraid to talk about. I think that art really has the power to, to change people's minds.    Miko Lee: [00:09:29] Have you experienced that with somebody that has actually seen your film, that you've had a conversation with them where they walked away, changed from seeing it?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:09:38] Well, on a very personal level, um, my parents, uh, are conservative and I think when I first came out to them, it was an adjustment for sure. Um, I. When I initially kind of pitched the idea of Egghead and Twinkie to them years, years ago, uh, as a short film, they were confused. They were like, why do you wanna make this film about being gay? Like, why do you have to make everything about being gay? And that's not really what it was. I just wanted to tell this story.  And it's been such an amazing journey to see my parents like fully embrace this movie. Like they are egghead and Twinkie biggest fans. They might love this movie more than me. Uh, so that has been really amazing to be able to kind of talk to them about queer issues in my identity through the making of this movie.   Miko Lee: [00:10:24] I love that. So let our audience know how they can see your film, egghead and Twinkie.    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:10:31] So Egg and Twinkie is coming out on streaming platforms on April 29th. It'll be on Apple tv, Amazon Prime, uh, any video on demand streaming platform in North America.    Miko Lee: [00:10:43] Yay. And Sarah, what are you working on next?    Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:10:46] Oh boy, have a big question. Uh, I have a few screenplays in the works, one of which is a time traveling lesbian rom-com. So, uh, I'm waiting for when I get the big bucks so I can make my first period piece.    Miko Lee: [00:10:59] Love it. Sounds fun. , thank you so much for sharing with us. It was such a delight to see your film and I look forward to seeing more of your work.   Sarah Kambe Holland: [00:11:08] Thanks so much for having me, Miko. This was great.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:11:11] Listen to Kushimoto Bushi by Minyo crusaders, a Japanese cumbia band    MUSIC   Welcome back. This is the Powerleegirls on apex express, and that was Kushimoto Bushi by Minyo Crusaders    Miko Lee: [00:15:24] Welcome, Alleluia Panis, the Executive Director of Kularts to Apex Express.    Alleluia Panis: [00:15:30] Thank you. I'm so honored to be here.    Miko Lee: [00:15:34] I wanna talk with you about your film, but first I wanna start with a personal question, which is an adaptation from the amazing poet Chinaka Hodges. And that is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Alleluia Panis: [00:15:49] Wow, that's deep who are my people? My people is my community. And so it is here in, in the diaspora, Filipino Americans, Asian Americans, and folks of color. And then of course the indigenous people in the Philippines. . What I carry with me and continues to inspire me on the daily is the knowing that we have been here for a long time. Our ancestors have survived eons of whether it's, good times and bad times. And so that keeps me going.   Miko Lee: [00:16:28] Thank you so much for sharing. you have been working in the field for a long time. You're really, , a trailblazer in terms of putting Filipino arts on the map and really lifting up the culture. Can you talk about your new film Memories of Mindanao, where that came from, what it's all about?   Alleluia Panis: [00:16:49] Is a leg of, , Tribo tour, which began in 2002. But actually inspired by my first trip to, , then the wild and being with in 1989 , and, , basically traveling and. Setting myself and my, my, my music and dance company at the time to just be with indigenous people. ,and how profoundly that particular experience really impacted me. For years I've been wanting to like, how can I bring this? Experience or share the experience with other diasporic folks. Fortunately I was able to connect with Carlo Abeo in the Philippines, who's been my tour manager, in 2001. And then in 2002 we embarked on the first, Tribo tour.   Miko Lee: [00:17:50] So this was an effort to really share this powerful kind of artistic travel journey with more folks. Is that right?    Alleluia Panis: [00:17:57] Yes. And it's actually beyond artistic. It's really about recognizing something deeper, right? Because our history of colonization is pretty intense. 500 years and or is it 400 years? Give or take, a century. And so there are a lot of things that had been co-opted. It has been erased, it has been gaslit. And fortunately, I feel like within the culture of the archipelago, there are, and even those. That are, of the, what is considered the colonized people or the Christianized people. there are practices that exist today that might have a different name, um, or but actually is indigenous and so, and only. Could I say that because I was able to really experience and be with folks and, uh, and it's years, you know, it's years of kind of like assessing and looking at you know, different, uh, practices. And so that is so I don't know. It's beyond gratifying. It's connecting. I mean, it seems so cliche. It's connecting with something so deep, you know, it's like connecting to, you know, to Mother Earth in, in that way our, our Mama Ocean. And recognizing yourself that, that you are bigger and have, and has agency, you know, in terms of just. What you are connected to, uh, what we are connected to. Um, and so it's, it's it, of course within the cultural practices, which is artistic practices that we see that connection.    Miko Lee: [00:19:40] You were looking at, the impact of colonization and how arts and culture has really spoke to that or fought back against that in the Philippines. Can you talk about bringing that over to our colonized United States and how you see that playing out?    Alleluia Panis: [00:19:58] Well, I think first of all as, um, as folks of color. And as former subjects of the United States, you know, 40 years of the US and still, still, um, you know, in some ways kind of soft power over the people of the Archipelago. It's, it's really, um, first and foremost knowing or getting that sense of connection and confidence and, um, self-identity. That leads, that would lead us to create, um, in the diaspora. And so what, what this pro with this project, this particular program does and, and I continue to prove it with so many folks, is that it's really. Kind of finding yourself, I mean, that, that seems so cliche and knowing your place in the world and how you are connected so deeply despite all the, you know, like all the brainwashing that you don't know anything. Everything is, uh, you know, everything that, that, that, um, that exists in terms of the cultural practices of the arch of the people of the archipelago are borrowed or, or, um. Basically borrowed or taken from another culture, um, really kind of diminishes that, that colonized thinking. And so I think the power of it is finding your stepping into your own power in this way. Um, and, and, um, you know, it is also not just the current, like in, in once lifetime do you get that abuse or trauma, but it's also all the. You know, the, the, the inheritance from our, you know, from our parents, from our grandparents, right? Great. Passed down the generation and, um, oftentimes construed as the real deal, unt true. And so, aside from the form. Aside from, um, the practices, because this trip is really a little, is is focused more on not learning or like, you know, we don't go to learn like dance music or. Weaving or, you know, design or anything like that. Yes, that happens. We do, we do have workshops, but you know, it's not like it's, it's more like opening the ice of each, you know, individual. I. To the, to the, the whole, the whole thing. What, what is the, the presence of nature is, are they water people? Well, how does the water impact the cultural practices and therefore the artistic practices, um, and understanding sort of like, oh, they, they do that kind of steps with the, you know, flat feet or whatever. Because the sound of the bamboo slats is just. Amazing, you know, uh, under their feet. And so it's not so much that I'm gonna learn, you know, x, y, Z dance or x, y, z music, music or gongs, or, but it's more like w. Through those practices, how do we see the people, how do they mirror our own existence? And what, what we can remember really is remembering, um, what my, what, what we have forgotten or what we know it's true, but we're not sure. So I dunno if I'm answering your question. It's a roundabout response.    Miko Lee:[00:23:26]  I feel like you're talking about how we step into our ancestral wisdom and power.    Alleluia Panis: [00:23:33] Correct.    Miko Lee: [00:23:33] And I'm wondering if you can expand on that,, to talk a little bit more about this time of oligarchy we are living in, which is really built in colonization. How do we both as artists use our superpowers to fight back against that and then encourage other people? How do we use our artist beings to encourage other people to fight back against the world that we're living in right now?  Alleluia Panis: [00:24:00] One of the most powerful impact on me , in experiencing, indigenous practices and culture is the practice of spirituality, the rituals, the ceremonies. There's one specific ceremony from Ana as a magana on ceremony, um, that really, It was just such a profound experience in opening up, my senses and my sense of connection to something larger than this. And, and the EPO and, um, there's several, um. Ritual practices with different names. It's basically similar, uh, practice, uh, is the connection to the five elements and the basic, um, um, and fundamental elements of life. You know, water, earth, wind, fire, and the darkness. The, there's a transcendence. Um. And that that discovery is a, or that connection, um, is something that's, it sounds really woo woo, right? I mean, um, but it really becomes kind of a, a, an experience, an embodiment experience, a belief in your own kind of intuition, your gut feeling. My, uh, my. Um, response, you know, to it, a physical response. And, um, that, that's become like a, a guide for, for everything that I do. And so, um, to me that that is the grounding that, um, has allowed me to continue the work that that. That I've been doing, continue living, period. And so it's really, I think the, a matter of really kind of like, knowing yourself, it just sounds all so cliche, you know? And, and, the power of, Really understanding that you have or I have a depth of connection, that I can draw from in terms of energy and spirit and love, that is beyond kind of the physical, but also the physical. And so for me, that sense of knowing. Is what is allowing me to continue doing what I do despite all the, you know, challenges and difficulties and, you know, the insanity of these times or any time. and having kind of that grounding, I mean, you, you, the, the, clarity, is everything. it allows me to. follow what seems to be the correct route to wherever I was going. it doesn't mean that it's, it's, I'm, I'm not working on it, you know, but I'm also not, not pushing in a way that, you know, I'm, I'm gonna make you believe in me and I'll, you know, like, sort of like, I will tell you what is the right thing and, and, and I will make you, um, agree with me. It, it's, it's not that. Um, I is, I dunno. Is that making any sense? Do you have any other,    Miko Lee: [00:27:24] you totally make sense to me. I'm wondering how people can find out how, how can people find out more about your film and about all of your work?    Alleluia Panis: [00:27:34] Oh, sure. people can find out about, my work and the film through, um, the website. It's, uh, KulArts SF dot org and, most of, if not all of my work, uh, and the work of others, are actually on there. There's a lot of information there. the, the film is gonna be shown at the Los Angeles Asian Pacific, film Festival May 3rd at, uh, a MC. Eight or 14 or is it in, Monterey Park and, folks can actually just find that information on our website as well.    Miko Lee: [00:28:13] And what would you like audience to walk away from your film with an understanding of?   Alleluia Panis: [00:28:21] I want the audience to feel the. Power of being there in TT T is the southernness most islands of, of the Philippines. And, not too many people actually go there. If you have seen the Sam Baja, um, you know, divers, uh, where they can dive for, I think they can stay from five to 15 minutes underwater without any, you know, oxygen or assistance. These are, these are the people who, who, uh, these islands belong to. and as usual, their, you know, their live livelihood is being challenged by everything that's happening in the world. And what the, the film itself, itself, is really trying to put, put the audience within the, you know, like the, I guess the, the shoe of the there and how, you know, their experiences. there's not a lot of explanation to it because we really want it to be a more visceral experience. for the audience,    Miko Lee: [00:29:22] is there anything else you'd like to share with us?    Alleluia Panis: [00:29:26] Let's keep on going. Let's, you know, we, we all, we all need to be in community to uplift each other and keep hope alive.    Miko Lee: [00:29:38] Thank you so much for joining us today and sharing a little bit more about your film and about your work and your connection to the ancestors and the need to move forward.   Alleluia Panis: [00:29:47] Appreciate you. Thank you, Miko.   Miko Lee: [00:29:51] Welcome Kyle Casey, Chu, also known as Panda Dulce to Apex Express.    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:29:57] Hi so much for having me.    Miko Lee: [00:29:59] We're so happy to have you back here, onto Apex Express Land and you have a bunch of new things happening, not just a new film, but also a new book. First off, I'm gonna just start with a personal question, which I ask everyone. Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:30:16] Ooh, that's a juicy one. Um, my people, I would say my people are the weirdos and the art freaks of the world. Uh, queer and trans people, Asian Americans, queer and trans Asian Americans, people of color, people from the Bay Area. Um, people who have noticed the boxes that they're in and are pushing the walls and the boundaries of that. I feel like these are the people who really inspire me the most. In terms of the legacy I bring, I am a fourth generation Chinese American, uh, queer and trans femme person living in the San Francisco Bay area where I was born and raised.   Miko Lee: [00:30:56] Thanks so much for sharing. , first let's start with just finding out more about your film, which was based on a true story called After What Happened at the Library. This was a national story, I remember hearing about it, but for folks that don't know, can you describe the real incident that inspired the film?    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:31:14] So, I'm one of the founders of Drag Story Hour, which is exactly what it sounds like., drag queens reading stories to, , children and their families and libraries, bookstores and schools. In 2022, I took a gig in Pride Month at San Lorenzo Public Library, , where I was doing a drag story hour and the Proud Boys stormed in. They called me a tranny, a groomer and an it. They wore shirts saying, kill your local pedophile and I had to retreat to the back and lock myself in the back room. They scoured the premises looking for me. , the authorities showed up and didn't get any of their names or information, um, and just. Dispersed them. And after the incident, I came back to the reading room where the children and families were there, but shaken and I completed the reading.    Miko Lee: [00:32:05] Incredibly traumatic. What happened after that in real life?    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:32:10] It's funny that you, uh, because the short film is called After What Happened at the Library, uh, for a reason because I feel like it's natural as social creatures for humans to focus on the incident itself. We want to approach people with empathy and we want to, really put ourselves in their shoes, uh, to kind of be there as a support for them. What I wasn't prepared for was the gauntlet of media attention, how people would be coming out of the woodwork to ask me about the situation. They would send gushing praise, hate mail, death threats, love letters, care packages, and this wave of attention. Almost added to the overwhelm of the experience and the fact that I had suddenly become a figure and a lightning rod in a culture war when I just wanted to read a book in a library. 'cause that's what I was doing. Um, and not only this, but in the coverage of the event. Because the authorities were so slow to act on this and only started investigating it as a hate crime after it blew up on Instagram and they suddenly felt the heat of media attention. Um, I felt the, my only recourse was to go to the media and was to talk, and especially as a writer and a storyteller, I felt I needed to kind of sound the alarm because it was pride month.  This was the first, this was the inciting incident of a national, even international anti-D drag wave of right wing extremism. Um, it was a couple days later that the oath keepers were found planning some kind of resistance, like violent insurrection in before Ohio Pride. And so I would talk to these journalists and. I felt in the beginning I trusted them because, you know, I trusted that they wanted to get the word out, that they had the same intentions that I did in protecting my people. And what I found instead was that they kind of almost, they tried to elicit the most emotional response from me, which often involved asking me to relive the most excruciating aspects of that time and that experience. So I had to go back and revisit it over and over again. And when the stories actually came out, I'd found that my story was edited to suit another preconceived formula that they had already pitched a certain idea for how the story was would go. That painted me as this static monolithic victim. And they would just plug in one tearful soundbite and the rest of the story, they could just say whatever they wanted with.And there's a certain violence in that. There's a certain. Greater injustice to going through something like that, number one. But number two, telling your story and having that be distorted to suit other political aims or to, you know, buttress a call for public safety. And that specific dynamic of the direct aftermath of notoriety is what the short film gets at.   Miko Lee: [00:35:11] Oh so you're taking back your own story.    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:35:14] Absolutely. So after what happened at the library, the short film is a very much a radical reclamation of my own voice and my own story. Um, prying it back from the hands of the media and telling it on my own terms.    Miko Lee: [00:35:26] Thank you for that. And how has it been received   Kyle Casey Chu: [00:35:29] So far it's been received very well. The short film World premiered at Florida Film Festival in Orlando. Received a special jury prize for courageous voice in a time of great need, which is incredible. It's our first screening and we already got an award, which is so exciting. It just screened at SF Film on April 23rd as part of the shorts block. SF film is an Academy Award qualifying festival, and it is going to screen again at Can Fest, one of my favorite local festivals, the world's largest Asian and Asian American film showcase it's screening on Friday, May 9th at Kabuki and tickets are on sale.   Miko Lee: [00:36:11] Thank you for that. And can you tell us about your new book? This is very exciting. You have a coming of age story, the Queen Bees of Tybee County. Can you tell us about your book?   Kyle Casey Chu: [00:36:22] Absolutely. When it rains, it pours in creative worlds. I had a lot of irons on the fire and it just so happened that all of them were exhibiting or debuting or hitting shelves in the same week of April, which is last week. The Queen Bees of Tybee County is my debut novel. It's middle grade, so for ages eight through 12, though like a Pixar movie, it's for all ages really. Um, and it is a hopeful drag coming out story about a queer Chinese American seventh grade basketball star. Derek Chan, who is unceremoniously shipped off to his grandma Claudia's in rural Georgia, and she is volunteering for a local pageant. And so he. Explores his queer identity and his love for drag via Southern pageant culture.    Miko Lee: [00:37:09] Ooh, do we see a film of this in the future?    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:37:12] Actually, Queen Bees of Tybee County was optioned by Lambert Productions, which put on the Hardy Boys on Hulu. So it is on its way to becoming a TV show if every, if all the stars align, it'll be on TVs in the uk. Fingers and toes crossed for that.    Miko Lee: [00:37:27] Amazing. I'm looking forward to that. Can we pull ourselves out a little bit and talk about the times that we're living in right now and how artists use our super powers to fight back against the oligarchy that we're living in?    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:37:43] We all know, or perhaps should know that the beginnings of fascism involve suppressing intellectuals and artistic voices, increasing police presence and trying to maintain a stiff and consistent lid on the voices of the people. And so this type of suppression is happening right now. There are book bans across the country. , there are state and federal efforts legislatively to curtail the rights of trans kids and trans athletes, and Intellectuals, diplomats and scholars are all being expelled or suppressed, and I think something that I've learned is that, and it sounds really cheesy, but that quote is so real where it's like being brave isn't the absence of fear, but it's doing things in spite of it. I know it feels very scary to speak out right now, but now is the exact time to speak out because any. Ground that is seated cannot be taken back. And so holding of the line by way of protest, by way of publication, by way of dissenting is how we crack this. The armor of fascism.    Miko Lee: [00:38:55] And can you talk a little bit about the moment of joy or celebrating joy within the context of the strife that we're living in? I bring that up because , you've given me much joy as part of the rice rocketts and a lot of the work that you do. So I wonder if you could just talk about what does joy mean in the moment like this?    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:39:16] Yeah. I think. I have a background in social work and one of the first things that we learned is this is hard work. It is hard to always start on your back foot and to have to argue your own humanity and justify your existence as an artist or as a person. I found myself doing that when coverage of the library incident was happening and. One of the things that they tell you is the way that you do your best work and the way that you best serve your communities is by keeping your own self afloat. And what this means is maintaining a balance. When you have hard work, you also need to reward yourself. You also need to take care of yourself. And I don't think it's enough to just say self-care. You need to expose yourself, and you need to fully embrace the full spectrum of human emotion, which necessarily includes joy. And so. After completing such an intense project, like after what happened at the library, I knew that I needed to engage in something that was hopeful and that really struck the cord of why community is so vital and important, and why social support is integral to all of us thriving. And so the Queen Bees of Tubby County, I was told by a reviewer, and this is my favorite review, they said that it's like Chapel R'S Pink Pony Club. If it were a book. Um, and I'm going with that 'cause I love that. But this story is really just about hope. It's about friendship, it's about, it's about dancing towards the future we want. And I don't think it is enough for us to react. I don't think it's enough for us to strike down. Terrible and horrifying regimes. We also must have a vision for the future that includes ourselves thriving and enjoying ourselves. And I think a part of that practice for me is making art and scaffolding a vision for the future that is positive.    Miko Lee: [00:41:20] And what would you like people to walk away from after either reading your book or seeing your short film?   Kyle Casey Chu: [00:41:29] I think after seeing the short film. What this gets at is whenever there's a flashpoint of a culture war and it's localized on one person, whenever a culture war is personified in one singular person, like for example, ma Moon kil. There's only so much of his life that we get to see, and it's through the headlines and this viral moment of like a flash on the pan. And I want people to realize that the way that you interact with these people in that fleeting moment is going to stick with them long after this moment of notoriety passes. And. To be conscientious and aware of what impact you're bringing to that person because it may just be a moment or a blip in your feed, but the impact is enduring for the person who's living it. And I also want us to be critical of how we consume trauma and violence in the media, and to ask ourselves if. We really, truly need to get all the details if we really, truly need to be put, put that victim in the position of reliving their experience just so we can relive it for a moment. Whereas they will have to relive it for the rest of their lives. And I think survivor narratives and victim narratives are way more messy and complicated and sometimes funny than people give it credit for or realize. And to realize that when you are reading something. That is just one dimension in one shade. Uh, yeah. So that was a lot, sorry. But, um, the other thing is for the Queen Bees of Tybee County. And the reason why I wanted to end on that is because it's uplifting is as dark as the world can be. It can also be as dazzling and bright and hopeful, and that the future that we are fighting for is worth fighting for. And we need to remind ourselves of that. Especially in times like these, and I know it might seem counterintuitive for us to celebrate or to be around each other when it feels earth shatteringly bleak, but it is essential to our survival, and don't be afraid to embrace that.   Miko Lee: [00:44:00] Kyle, thank you so much. Kyle, Casey Chu, thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express. I encourage people to check the film out and the book out and we appreciate chatting with you.    Kyle Casey Chu: [00:44:11] Thanks so much.    Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:44:14] Kyle's film will be showcased at Cam Fest, the nation's largest showcase for new Asian American and Asian films, which runs from May 8th to 11th in San Francisco at a time when it feels particularly fraught to express stories from communities of color. Cam is doing what we've done for over 40 years, sharing films from Asian America to a wide array of audiences. It says, Cam's, director of programs, Dawn Young. Watching these stories in a theater full of friends and neighbors is an opportunity to laugh and cry, and ultimately to celebrate human experiences that transcend bounds. This year's festival will return to the A MC Kabuki in San Francisco's Japan town for opening night, and a total of four days of screenings in the historic neighborhood that is undergoing its own resurgence with new restaurants, cafes, and boutiques, highlighting both traditional and youth oriented culture. The Roxy Theater will also host three days of screenings. Cam Fest continues to strengthen ties with other local arts institutions with the Asian Art Museum hosting the Cam Fest gala. Following the opening night film on Thursday May 8th and SF M Om a opening the Phyllis Wa Theater for Mother's Day programming on Sunday, May 10th. Turning a lens on history, whether it's the end of the Vietnam War or the trailblazing women in the Bay Area, offers a chance to reconsider the stories through which we come to understand ourselves. Says Cam Fest program Manager Del Holton, ranging from intimate narratives of family and memory to experimental work that bends the conventions of storytelling. These films illuminate the many perspectives of Asian America.    CAAM Fest 2025 wraps up on Mother's Day with dedicated events that highlight strength and visionary artistry of Asian American women. You can also catch my sister Jalena Keane-Lee's film Standing Above the Clouds at 5:00 PM at the Kabuki. Honoring Mothering also includes celebrating the nurturing of community and pioneering of aesthetics. Cam's final day reflects on the contributions of Asian American women's work while looking to the future of storytelling. Another major multimedia arts, dance and music festival to check out is the annual United States of Asian America which runs through June 1st at venues around the Bay Area. This year's theme Critical Refuge asks us to reflect on our journey as immigrants, refugees, and generations of descendants and or mixed raced people in the diaspora as we seek necessary sanctuary within ourselves and in our communities in times of unrest and uncertainty. The festival will honor a API Arts and Culture, reflecting on where we have been, where we are now, and what our collective future holds, while acknowledging our roots as immigrants, refugees, and mixed race descendants. Also check out the 42nd annual Himalayan Fair in Berkeley's Live Oak Park happening May 17th and 18th. There will be Himalayan Food, handicrafts, music, and Dance. There are so many events happening in celebration of Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month. Check out our show notes for links to all the wheelchair accessible events In addition to the films we featured tonight, camp Fest and United States of Asian America, there is also May 3rd, two to 6:00 PM daily city AAPI fest celebrating local Asian American and Pacific Islander culture in daily city in the greater San Francisco Bay area.    May 10th, 10:00 AM to 12:00 PM Our heritage, 5K 2025. A free family friendly, 5K fun walk slash run. Honoring the rich history and contributions of Asian American and Pacific Islander communities in San Francisco. This scenic route winds through the heart of the city. Passing by over 16 plus historic A API Landmarks featuring goodies, resources, and fun facts about its cultural significance. Expect cheer stations, photo ops, sweet treats, and entertainment along the route to keep the energy high. May 10th is also a API Mental Health Day. The Our Wellness Festival will celebrate mental health, community and joy. The festival will feature family friendly activities, carnival style games, music, dancing, wellness resources, and more. May 23rd at 5:30 PM to 8:30 PM Asian American and Pacific Islander, LGBT Q2 s plus Mixer, NJAHS, peace Gallery 1684 Post Street in San Francisco. Children's Fairyland in Oakland and Stanford's Asian American Studies apartment will also host a series of events throughout the month that we will post in the show notes for you to check out in Bay Area Public Library News. Oakland Public Libraries feature reading lists for all ages, a grab and grow seedling kit and events like Watermelon Kimchi making. San Francisco Public Libraries will have events for all ages at library locations throughout the city, including free author talks, book clubs, film screenings, crafts, food programs, and musical and dance performances. Highlights for adults include the launch of Corky Lee's Asian America at the main library on May 23rd. The new book features over 200 breathtaking photos celebrating the history and cultural impact of the Asian American Social Justice movement. We've covered Corky Lee's work in multiple previous Apex episodes.    Additionally, four members of the Asian American Journalist Association, AAJA, who cover the Asian American and Pacific Islander News beat will discuss how authentic local reporting happens, important stories they've reported recently, and how having reporters dedicated to the BEAT impacts the A API community on May 8th, moderated by the interim president of the AAJA-SF Bay Area chapter Harry Mock. The panel features Ko Lyn Chang from the San Francisco Chronicle, Han Lee from the San Francisco Standard, and Ravi Kapoor, CEO of Dia, TV on May 25th. The library partners with the Chinese Cultural Center of San Francisco to welcome Curtis Chin, author of everything I Learned, I learned in a Chinese restaurant for a book talk and library popup. For youth on May 25th, join June Jo Lee Food ethnographer and award-winning children's book author for a kimchi demo. Read aloud and krautchy making activity. Experience a read aloud of New Picture Storybooks for Children and participate in a drawing workshop on comics with illustrators mini fan and Sophie Dialo on May 23rd at Excelsior Branch Library. Katie Kwan, who has been featured on Apex dives into the world of comics and zines through the lens of an Asian American artist and educator, and teaches the community how to make their own comics and zines at multiple locations throughout May. San Jose Public Libraries host a series of events with highlights being top of cloth making on May 6th and vegan Filipino cooking with Aztec Vegan on May 7th. Once again, happy Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month from us at Apex Express. Please do checkout CAAM Fest. May 8th through 11th in San Francisco. If you get the chance and you'll be able to see Kyle's film. As well as many other incredible AAPI, histories and stories. You can check out all of that community calendar info in our show notes, as well as information on all of the guests you heard from tonight.   Miko Lee: [00:51:55] Please check out our website, kpfa.org to find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. APEX Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preeti Mangala Shekar, Anuj Vaidya, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tangloao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.        The post APEX Express – 5.1.25 – Filmmakers Exploring Boundaries appeared first on KPFA.

Dr. David Chao joined Claire and Rachel to share about his work in the field of Asian American theology. In this theologically rich conversation, David reflects on his Reformed heritage and systematic theological training, as well as his ethnographic and oral history work on the lived theology of Asian American Christians. David shares personally about the importance of Asian American mental health, reflected in his work on the annual Asian American Mental Health Conference at Princeton Theological Seminary. He also ends with words of encouragement for Asian theology students situated in predominantly White institutions.Bio Dr. David C. Chao is the Director of the Center for Asian American Christianity at Princeton Theological Seminary. In this role, he teaches courses on Asian American theology, organizes academic programming in Asian American theology and ministry, and mentors Asian and Asian American students. He holds a Bachelor of Arts from Yale University, a Master of Divinity from Regent College, and both a Master of Theology and a Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary. Dr. Chao has extensive pastoral experience with Chinese American, Korean American, and pan-Asian churches and ministries and is an active member of the Presbyterian Church (USA). Through his academic and pastoral work, Dr. Chao explores the complex identities and lived experiences of Asian American Christians, aiming to amplify their voices and stories, and examining how their faith informs their engagement with social justice, identity, and community resilience. Referenced works1517 ProjectAsian American TheologyRegent College Podcast Thanks for listening. Please like, rate and review us on your podcast platform of choice and share this episode with a friend. Follow Us on Social Media Facebook Instagram Youtube Keep in Touch Regent College Summer Programs Regent College Newsletter

From MPR News, Art Hounds are members of the Minnesota arts community who look beyond their own work to highlight what's exciting in local art. Their recommendations are lightly edited from the audio heard in the player above. Want to be an Art Hound? Submit here.A spring garden in ceramics Cindy Pope is a ceramic artist from Waite Park. She got a dose of early spring by visiting the ceramics exhibit “Garden Party” at the Paramount Center for the Arts in St. Cloud. Created by Stacy Larson, who is originally from Cold Spring, the exhibit features wheel-thrown and hand-carved cups and tableware that look like delicate leaves and flowers, glazed in springtime colors. The exhibit runs through March. Voices of the Asian American experienceJulia Cheng of Duluth had a chance to hear the world premiere this fall of “mOthertongue: Lived Experience in Asian America.” Soprano Jennifer Lien of Duluth performs three song cycles commissioned by Asian American women composers, accompanied on piano by Lina Yoo-Min Lee. Lien commissioned these new works in partnership with the Cincinnati Song Initiative with support from the Minnesota State Arts Board Creative Individuals grant. The duo has continued to perform these works in what Cheng refers to as “a living collaboration.” They'll perform highlights of the song cycles at the College of St. Scholastica's “Lunch With Friends” on March 25, with the full performance on March 28 at the college's Mitchell Auditorium. Julia Cheng was touched by the performance and looks forward to hearing it again.“I have to say that, as the child of immigrants from China, these songs really resonated with me,” Cheng said. “I always wondered, you know, how did they deal with the dislocation of leaving home, family, language, culture, developing new community, the wrenching loss of being separated from family? These are all things that I heard bits and pieces of in the song cycles by Melissa Dunphy and the other two composers.” Wood sculptures at Tettegouche Annalisa Buerke follows her former colleague artist Rick Love on Instagram, where she enjoyed watching his process of creating a series of sculptures now on view at the Tettegouche State Park Visitor Center in Silver Bay.The five sculptures are all made of wood — some painted, some charred — that celebrate both forests and sustainability. The works evoke the moon, the sun, a tree, a waterfall and Lake Superior. They'll be on view through March.Tettegouche State Park's Visitor Center includes both juried art shows (of which Love's exhibit was one) and an artist-in-residence program. 

Worker advocates are warning of labor exploitation in the wake of the L.A. fires. A Hindu temple was defaced sometime over the weeked. What the sold-out mini tote bags from 99 Ranch Market says about Asian America, and more. Support The L.A. Report by donating at LAist.com/join and by visiting https://laist.com Support the show: https://laist.com

“Just because your parents wanted the best for you in one way doesn't mean that you rebelling doesn't mean you still can't give back to them by living a good life.”Michael Wong is basically a cultural anthropologist for Asian America. A Seattle-based commentator, Michael's best known for Asian Verified on Instagram + TikTok, and also writes a monthly column for The Stranger, a Seattle newspaper. This is the first of many conversation with Filipino entrepreneurs GUEST-hosted by new FrieMMd of the Pod, past guest, and Filipina entrepreneur Lisa Angulo Reid. LEARN MORE instagram.com/asianverified thestranger.com/collections/79782549/asian-verified GUEST HOST (Lisa Reid): https://dearflor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

“Just because your parents wanted the best for you in one way doesn't mean that you rebelling doesn't mean you still can't give back to them by living a good life.” Michael Wong is basically a cultural anthropologist for Asian America. A Seattle-based commentator, Michael's best known for Asian Verified on Instagram + TikTok, and also writes a monthly column for The Stranger, a Seattle newspaper. This is the first of many conversation with Filipino entrepreneurs GUEST-hosted by new FrieMMd of the Pod, past guest, and Filipina entrepreneur Lisa Angulo Reid.  LEARN MORE instagram.com/asianverified thestranger.com/collections/79782549/asian-verified GUEST HOST (Lisa Reid): https://dearflor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, I talked to Corinne Sugino, whose book Making the Human: Race, Allegory, and Asian Americans (Rutgers UP, 2024) examines how mainstream stories about Asian American success have come to serve harmful ideas about progress. At the turn of the century, Asian Americans have come to embody meritocracy and heteronormative family values, and more recently, some Asian Americans have become the face of law and order. These ideas become solidified in a variety of narratives, from blockbuster movies such as Crazy Rich Asians, to (supposedly) myth-busting documentaries such as Seeking Asian Female, to legal arguments against Affirmative Action. But these stories—usually stories about American citizens of East Asian descent—erase the diverse lived experience of Asian America. In this conversation, Corine Sugino also explains how we can draw on Black Studies, including scholarship by Sylvia Wynter and Katherine McKittrick, to develop a more capacious understanding of “the human” and antiracism. This provides a foundation for imagining solidarity across racial lines. About Corinne Sugino: Corinne Sugino is an Assistant Professor in the Department of English and Center for Ethnic Studies. Their research focus lies at the intersections of Asian American studies, cultural studies, rhetorical theory, and media studies. Corinne's first book project, Making the Human: Race, Allegory, and Asian Americans (Rutgers University Press, November 2024) explores how cultural and media narratives about Asian American racial and gendered difference naturalizes a limited understanding of what it means to be human. Beyond this project, her research interests also include discourses of false inclusion, Asian American grassroots media during the Asian American movement, and transnational racialization in Japan. About Weishun Lu: Weishun Lu is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Humanitities & Communication at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Her research focus is contemporary poetry, avant-garde writing, the history of multiculturalism, and critical ethnic studies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

In this episode, I talked to Corinne Sugino, whose book Making the Human: Race, Allegory, and Asian Americans (Rutgers UP, 2024) examines how mainstream stories about Asian American success have come to serve harmful ideas about progress. At the turn of the century, Asian Americans have come to embody meritocracy and heteronormative family values, and more recently, some Asian Americans have become the face of law and order. These ideas become solidified in a variety of narratives, from blockbuster movies such as Crazy Rich Asians, to (supposedly) myth-busting documentaries such as Seeking Asian Female, to legal arguments against Affirmative Action. But these stories—usually stories about American citizens of East Asian descent—erase the diverse lived experience of Asian America. In this conversation, Corine Sugino also explains how we can draw on Black Studies, including scholarship by Sylvia Wynter and Katherine McKittrick, to develop a more capacious understanding of “the human” and antiracism. This provides a foundation for imagining solidarity across racial lines. About Corinne Sugino: Corinne Sugino is an Assistant Professor in the Department of English and Center for Ethnic Studies. Their research focus lies at the intersections of Asian American studies, cultural studies, rhetorical theory, and media studies. Corinne's first book project, Making the Human: Race, Allegory, and Asian Americans (Rutgers University Press, November 2024) explores how cultural and media narratives about Asian American racial and gendered difference naturalizes a limited understanding of what it means to be human. Beyond this project, her research interests also include discourses of false inclusion, Asian American grassroots media during the Asian American movement, and transnational racialization in Japan. About Weishun Lu: Weishun Lu is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Humanitities & Communication at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Her research focus is contemporary poetry, avant-garde writing, the history of multiculturalism, and critical ethnic studies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/asian-american-studies

In this episode, I talked to Corinne Sugino, whose book Making the Human: Race, Allegory, and Asian Americans (Rutgers UP, 2024) examines how mainstream stories about Asian American success have come to serve harmful ideas about progress. At the turn of the century, Asian Americans have come to embody meritocracy and heteronormative family values, and more recently, some Asian Americans have become the face of law and order. These ideas become solidified in a variety of narratives, from blockbuster movies such as Crazy Rich Asians, to (supposedly) myth-busting documentaries such as Seeking Asian Female, to legal arguments against Affirmative Action. But these stories—usually stories about American citizens of East Asian descent—erase the diverse lived experience of Asian America. In this conversation, Corine Sugino also explains how we can draw on Black Studies, including scholarship by Sylvia Wynter and Katherine McKittrick, to develop a more capacious understanding of “the human” and antiracism. This provides a foundation for imagining solidarity across racial lines. About Corinne Sugino: Corinne Sugino is an Assistant Professor in the Department of English and Center for Ethnic Studies. Their research focus lies at the intersections of Asian American studies, cultural studies, rhetorical theory, and media studies. Corinne's first book project, Making the Human: Race, Allegory, and Asian Americans (Rutgers University Press, November 2024) explores how cultural and media narratives about Asian American racial and gendered difference naturalizes a limited understanding of what it means to be human. Beyond this project, her research interests also include discourses of false inclusion, Asian American grassroots media during the Asian American movement, and transnational racialization in Japan. About Weishun Lu: Weishun Lu is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Humanitities & Communication at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Her research focus is contemporary poetry, avant-garde writing, the history of multiculturalism, and critical ethnic studies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/critical-theory

In this episode, I talked to Corinne Sugino, whose book Making the Human: Race, Allegory, and Asian Americans (Rutgers UP, 2024) examines how mainstream stories about Asian American success have come to serve harmful ideas about progress. At the turn of the century, Asian Americans have come to embody meritocracy and heteronormative family values, and more recently, some Asian Americans have become the face of law and order. These ideas become solidified in a variety of narratives, from blockbuster movies such as Crazy Rich Asians, to (supposedly) myth-busting documentaries such as Seeking Asian Female, to legal arguments against Affirmative Action. But these stories—usually stories about American citizens of East Asian descent—erase the diverse lived experience of Asian America. In this conversation, Corine Sugino also explains how we can draw on Black Studies, including scholarship by Sylvia Wynter and Katherine McKittrick, to develop a more capacious understanding of “the human” and antiracism. This provides a foundation for imagining solidarity across racial lines. About Corinne Sugino: Corinne Sugino is an Assistant Professor in the Department of English and Center for Ethnic Studies. Their research focus lies at the intersections of Asian American studies, cultural studies, rhetorical theory, and media studies. Corinne's first book project, Making the Human: Race, Allegory, and Asian Americans (Rutgers University Press, November 2024) explores how cultural and media narratives about Asian American racial and gendered difference naturalizes a limited understanding of what it means to be human. Beyond this project, her research interests also include discourses of false inclusion, Asian American grassroots media during the Asian American movement, and transnational racialization in Japan. About Weishun Lu: Weishun Lu is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Humanitities & Communication at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Her research focus is contemporary poetry, avant-garde writing, the history of multiculturalism, and critical ethnic studies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

In this episode, I talked to Corinne Sugino, whose book Making the Human: Race, Allegory, and Asian Americans (Rutgers UP, 2024) examines how mainstream stories about Asian American success have come to serve harmful ideas about progress. At the turn of the century, Asian Americans have come to embody meritocracy and heteronormative family values, and more recently, some Asian Americans have become the face of law and order. These ideas become solidified in a variety of narratives, from blockbuster movies such as Crazy Rich Asians, to (supposedly) myth-busting documentaries such as Seeking Asian Female, to legal arguments against Affirmative Action. But these stories—usually stories about American citizens of East Asian descent—erase the diverse lived experience of Asian America. In this conversation, Corine Sugino also explains how we can draw on Black Studies, including scholarship by Sylvia Wynter and Katherine McKittrick, to develop a more capacious understanding of “the human” and antiracism. This provides a foundation for imagining solidarity across racial lines. About Corinne Sugino: Corinne Sugino is an Assistant Professor in the Department of English and Center for Ethnic Studies. Their research focus lies at the intersections of Asian American studies, cultural studies, rhetorical theory, and media studies. Corinne's first book project, Making the Human: Race, Allegory, and Asian Americans (Rutgers University Press, November 2024) explores how cultural and media narratives about Asian American racial and gendered difference naturalizes a limited understanding of what it means to be human. Beyond this project, her research interests also include discourses of false inclusion, Asian American grassroots media during the Asian American movement, and transnational racialization in Japan. About Weishun Lu: Weishun Lu is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Humanitities & Communication at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. Her research focus is contemporary poetry, avant-garde writing, the history of multiculturalism, and critical ethnic studies. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/politics-and-polemics

It's a bonus episode! In this crazy live show, Dylan Adler and Jes Tom hop on to debate the most pressing issues facing Asian America. Taped live at The Korner Store in San Francisco.H A C K C I T Y C O M E D Y S H O Whttps://www.eventbrite.com/e/hack-city-comedy-with-mic-nguyen-and-jenny-arimoto-tickets-1119949361689See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dolly's mission has been to tell the untold stories of Asian America through video and film. Dolly has produced stories for Al Jazeera (Chinese Food: An All American Cuisine), PBS (Origins and A Historian's Take), and Hulu (Out There Ep 8: The Ghosts of Chinatown). Listen to the end of our episode for a preview of Dolly's exciting new project! Audio clips used: The Untold Story Of America's Southern Chinese [Chinese Food: An All-American Cuisine, Pt. 2] |  (Via AJ+ on YouTube) Are You “AAPI” or “Asian American”? It's Complicated. | A People's History of Asian America (via PBS Voices on YouTube) It was so much fun listening to Dolly's stories behind the stories. You can find links to Dolly's videos at https://www.dollyli.com, on YouTube, or through her Instagram @bydollyli  Thanks to our Deep South Correspondent, Sarah-Soonling Blackburn, for co-hosting with me again! And huge congrats on your next "project" due to arrive in a few months! As I always mention, you can write to us at: ⁠infatuasianpodcast@gmail.com⁠, and please follow us on Instagram and Facebook @infatuasianpodcast  Our Theme: “Super Happy J-Pop Fun-Time” by Prismic Studios was arranged and performed by All Arms Around  Cover Art and Logo designed by Justin Chuan @w.a.h.w (We Are Half the World) #asianjournalist #asianpodcast #asian #asianamerican #infatuasian #infatuasianpodcast #aapi #veryasian  #asianamericanpodcaster #representationmatters  

Made in Asia/America: Why Video Games Were Never (Really) about Us (Duke UP, 2024) explores the key role video games play within the race makings of Asia/America. Its fourteen critical essays on games, ranging from Death Stranding to Animal Crossing, and five roundtables with twenty Asian/American game makers examine the historical entanglements of games, Asia, and America, and reveal the ways games offer new modes of imagining imperial violence, racial difference, and coalition. Shifting away from Eurocentric, white, masculinist takes on gaming, the contributors focus on minority and queer experiences, practices, and innovative scholarly methods to better account for the imperial circulation of games. Encouraging ambiguous and contextual ways of understanding games, the editors offer an “interactive” editorial method, a genre-expanding approach that encourages hybrid works of autotheory, queer of color theory, and conversation among game makers and scholars to generate divergent meanings of games, play, and “Asian America.” Rudolf Inderst is a professor of Game Design with a focus on Digital Game Studies at the IU International University of Applied Science, department lead for Games at Swiss culture magazine Titel kulturmagazin, editor of “DiGRA D-A-CH Game Studies Watchlist”, a weekly messenger newsletter about Game Culture and curator of @gamestudies at tiktok. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Jeff and Phil welcome historian and professor Mae Ngai, co-editor of the book Corky Lee's Asian America: Fifty Years of Photographic Justice, a collection of over 200 photos celebrating the history and cultural impact of the Asian American social justice movement from the lens of late photojournalist and activist Corky Lee. She talks about Corky's calling as "the inundisputed, unofficial Asian American photographer laureate" and his lifelong quest to document, empower and create community change with his camera. Also: Jeff talks about that time he and Corky lost track of time. 

Robin Ha is an award-winning author and illustrator of several graphic novels including the best-selling comic recipe book Cook Korean!: A Comic Book With Recipes and the illustrated memoir Almost American Girl which is about her move from South Korea to America when she was 14. Robin's new graphic novel, The Fox Maidens is her first foray into fiction, and is based on the Korean folklore of her ancestors. Robin's comics and illustrations have appeared in various publications, such as the Washington Post and the Los Angeles Times, as well as in anthologies highlighting Asian American culture, including Rise: A Pop History of Asian America from the Nineties to Now, New Frontiers: The Many Worlds of George Takei, and Shattered: The Asian American Comics Anthology. She is also a highly gifted fine artist, and she has a Seven Ladies of Tarot coloring book that you can download from her site.On this episode Robin discusses fox maiden mythology, Korean folk magic, and the intergenerational shapeshifting power of women. Pam also talks about fox magic, and answers a listener question about a Witch Wave book club.Our sponsors for this episode are Unquiet Arcadian, Black Phoenix Alchemy Lab, The Love Witch, BetterHelp, Woodland Magic, and Sphere + SundryWe also have brand new print-on-demand merch like Witch Wave shirts, sweatshirts, totes, stickers, and mugs available now here.And if you want more Witch Wave, please consider supporting us on Patreon to get access to bonus Witch Wave Plus episodes, Pam's monthly online rituals, and more! That's patreon.com/witchwave