Podcasts about full circle insights

Episode SummaryIn this episode of OnBase, host Chris Moody sits down with Jacek Materna as they explore how account-based marketing (ABM) has evolved from traditional sales tactics to precision-driven strategies fueled by AI. Jacek reflects on his career in ABM, starting in enterprise sales during the 2000s, and shares practical advice for implementing effective ABM programs. The episode tackles common missteps, such as over-reliance on tools, and outlines the importance of aligning sales and marketing teams. Jacek also dives into real-world use cases of AI in ABM, from hyper-personalization to advanced measurement tactics, and how businesses can stay competitive in today's fast-paced Martech landscape.Key TakeawaysABM is Old School Personalization with a New Name: ABM is an extension of the enterprise sales motion that has existed for decades but now incorporates modern tools and strategiesAlignment is Critical: Sales and marketing teams need to collaborate closely, with shared goals and metrics, to make account-based strategies successful.AI Supercharges Personalization: AI enables cost-effective hyper-personalization but also risks oversaturating the market. Companies need to find ways to stand out amidst increasing competition.Intent Data Isn't a Silver Bullet: Many companies fall victim to “intent hangovers”—placing too much faith in intent platforms as a standalone solution without building strategy or alignment first.Tools Are Not the Starting Point: Businesses should focus on strategy and human connection before investing in costly tools they might not fully utilize.Quotes"The best marketers are sellers at heart, and the best sellers are masterful storytellers."Best Moments (03:25) – Jacek's Career Beginnings : Reflecting on how enterprise sales in the early 2000s laid the foundation for his passion for ABM.(09:00) – Enterprise Sales Meets AI : Jacek highlights moments when human storytelling intersected with cutting-edge digital tools.(15:45) – Tips for Aligning Sales and Marketing : Practical advice on simplifying strategies and focusing on shared metrics like pipeline and bookings to unite teams.(26:48) – The "Intent Hangover" Phenomenon: Jacek's critical analysis of businesses that over-invest in intent data without a coherent strategy.(33:20) – What's Next for AI in ABM? : A candid discussion about how AI will expand capabilities for teams while creating new challenges in a saturated market.Tech RecommendationsChatGPTResource RecommendationsBooks:The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing by David Drummond Obviously Awesome by April Dunford: How to Nail Product Positioning so Customers Get It, Buy It, Love ItTrump: The Art of the Deal by Donald J. TrumpMovie: Glengarry Glen RossPodcasts:All-In PodcastInvest like the BestAbout the GuestJacek Materna is a 3x founder and seasoned technology executive who specializes in scaling growth-stage companies. With a track record of successful exits and deep experience in B2B SaaS, security, fintech, and edtech, Jacek brings a practical, no-fluff perspective on what it takes to drive real business outcomes.He's led global teams, launched products that generate tens of millions in ARR, and helped companies—from first-time founder startups to PE-backed platforms—unlock margin expansion, go-to-market velocity, and lasting cultural alignment. His leadership experience spans roles as CEO, COO, and CTO, with responsibilities across product strategy, corporate development, P&L oversight, and M&A.Jacek currently serves as CEO of Full Circle Insights and is passionate about helping organizations turn complexity into clarity. Whether he's advising boards, restructuring teams, or speaking on stage, his mission is always the same: drive value, move fast, and scale smart.Website: https://www.fullcircleinsights.com/Connect with Jacek.

  Join Sarah as she forecasts marketing trends for 2025 and how those trends apply to insurance agents like you!   Contact the Agent Survival Guide Podcast! Email us ASGPodcast@Ritterim.com or call 1-717-562-7211 and leave a voicemail.   Resources: 5 Things from the CMS 2026 MA and Part D Proposed Rule: https://pod.fo/e/28c9d2   How Ask Integrity Can Streamline Your Medicare Sales Appointments: https://pod.fo/e/27a354   Instagram Basics for Insurance Agents: https://pod.fo/e/28803f    References: Jantsch, John. “ 5 Marketing Trends That Will Disrupt 2025 (And How to Stay Ahead).” Ducttapemarketing.Com, Duct Tape Marketing, 4 Dec. 2024, https://ducttapemarketing.com/2025-marketing-trends-how-to-stay-ahead/.   Chaffey, Dave. “10 Actionable Digital Marketing Trends for 2025.” Smartinsights.Com, Smart Insights, 11 Dec. 2024, https://www.smartinsights.com/digital-marketing-strategy/digital-marketing-trends-2025/.   Rand, Stephanie. “10 Key Marketing Trends for the US in 2025.” Askattest.Com, Attest, 30 Oct. 2024, https://www.askattest.com/blog/articles/marketing-trends.   Dionne, Jazmyn. “12 Digital Marketing Trends to Look Out For in 2025.” Hiilite.Com, Hiilite Web Design + Marketing + SEO, 27 Nov. 2024, https://hiilite.com/12-digital-marketing-trends-to-look-out-for-in-2025/.   Howarth, Josh. “13 Top Marketing Trends (2024 & 2025).” Explodingtopics.Com, Exploding Topics, 11 June 2024, https://explodingtopics.com/blog/marketing-trends.   Stahl, Stephanie. “40+ Content Marketing Trends Experts Predict Will Matter for Success in 2025.” Contentmarketinginstitute.Com, Content Marketing Institute, 4 Dec. 2024, https://contentmarketinginstitute.com/articles/trends-content-marketing/.   “2025 Marketing Trends to Watch Out For: Part 1.” Northbeam Blog, Northbeam, 17 July 2024, https://www.northbeam.io/post/2025-marketing-trends-to-watch-out-for-part-1.   Early, Morgan. “2025 Marketing Trends.” Fullcircleinsights.Com, Full Circle Insights, 6 Dec. 2024, https://fullcircleinsights.com/blog/2025-marketing-trends/.   Bevel, Christopher. “2025 Outlook: 10 Media and Marketing Trends to Watch.” Amapittsburgh.Org, American Marketing Association Pittsburgh, 19 Oct. 2024, https://amapittsburgh.org/blog/2025-outlook-10-media-and-marketing-trends-to-watch/.   Bansal, Deepak. “Digital Marketing Trends for 2025 and Beyond.” Forbes, Forbes Magazine, 13 Nov. 2024, https://www.forbes.com/councils/forbesbusinesscouncil/2024/11/13/digital-marketing-trends-for-2025-and-beyond/.   “Digital Marketing Trends for 2025: Content Strategy.” Spinutech.Com, Spinutech, 26 Nov. 2024, https://www.spinutech.com/digital-marketing/content/strategy/digital-marketing-trends-for-2025-content-strategy/.   Perry, Hanif. “Four Trends to Feed 2025 Marketing Planning.” Prophet.Com, Prophet Brand Strategy, 2 Dec. 2024, https://prophet.com/2024/08/four-trends-to-feed-2025-marketing-planning/.   Schultz, Mike. “How Many Touches Does It Take to Make a Sale?” Rainsalestraining.Com, RAIN Group Sales Training, 19 Dec. 2023, https://www.rainsalestraining.com/blog/how-many-touches-does-it-take-to-make-a-sale.  Krafft, Natalie. “Marketing in 2025: Six Key Trends That Will Drive the Future.” Oppizi.Com, Oppizi, 17 Oct. 2024, https://www.oppizi.com/blog/marketing-trends/marketing-in-2025-five-key-trends-that-will-drive-the-future/.   “Marketing Trends 2025.” Kantar.Com, Kantar, https://www.kantar.com/campaigns/marketing-trends. Accessed 12 Dec. 2024.   “Marketing Trends 2025: 13 Trends to Help You Power Through.” Mediatool.Com, Mediatool, 12 Nov. 2024, https://mediatool.com/blog/marketing-trends-2025.   Yakuel, Pini. “Marketing Trends 2025: Predictions, Tips, & Technologies to Thrive.” Optimove.Com, Optimove, 25 Nov. 2024, https://www.optimove.com/blog/marketing-trends-2025-top-predictions.   “Ready for 2025? The Marketing Trends That Could Change Everything.” Obaninternational.Com, Oban International, 29 Oct. 2024, https://obaninternational.com/blog/the-marketing-trends-set-to-rule-2025/.   Concannon, Lance. “The Biggest Marketing Trends for 2025.” Meltwater, Meltwater, 22 Nov. 2024, https://www.meltwater.com/en/blog/marketing-trends-2025.   “The Top Digital Marketing Trends You Need to Know for 2025.” Abstraktmg.Com, Abstrakt Marketing Group, 29 Oct. 2024, https://www.abstraktmg.com/digital-marketing-trends/.   Phil, Wilson. “Top 2025 Digital Marketing Trends: AI, MMM, and More.” Thinkwithgoogle.Com, Google, Dec. 2024, https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/intl/en-emea/consumer-insights/consumer-trends/digital-marketing-trends-2025/.   Treanor, Tom. “What Is First-Party Data? How To Build a First-Party Data Strategy.” Cdp.Com, The Customer Data Platform Resource, https://cdp.com/articles/what-is-first-party-data-and-why-is-it-so-important/. Accessed 12 Dec. 2024.   Yakuel, Pini. “Zero-Party Data, Infinite Potential: Marketing Trends to Watch in 2025.” CMSWire.Com, CMSWire, 10 Dec. 2024, https://www.cmswire.com/digital-marketing/zero-party-data-infinite-potential-marketing-trends-to-watch-in-2025/.   “Zero Party Data vs First, Second & Third Party Data Explained.” Usercentrics.Com, Usercentrics, 1 Nov. 2024, https://usercentrics.com/knowledge-hub/zero-first-and-third-party-data/.      Follow Us on Social! Ritter on Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/RitterIM Instagram, https://www.instagram.com/ritter.insurance.marketing/ LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/company/ritter-insurance-marketing TikTok, https://www.tiktok.com/@ritterim X, https://twitter.com/RitterIM and Youtube, https://www.youtube.com/user/RitterInsurance       Sarah on LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/sjrueppel/ Instagram, https://www.instagram.com/thesarahjrueppel/ and Threads, https://www.threads.net/@thesarahjrueppel    Tina on LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/tina-lamoreux-6384b7199/  Not affiliated with or endorsed by Medicare or any government agency. 

Bonnie Crater, President and CEO of Full Circle Insights, explains why companies struggle to identify what marketing activities impact pipeline opportunities and clarifies what attribution means and what to consider when selecting an attribution model.  She also shares the best piece of advice that she has received as a marketer and the insights she would give to someone starting their career.

Attribution, whether first- or last-touch, or even multi-touch, often remains a very theoretical model. In this episode we're changing that; you'll get practical tips on how to build your attribution model as a B2B marketer. In this episode, Elias has a chat with Bonnie Crater, the CEO of Full Circle Insights, a software company that gives marketers insights into attribution and funnel metrics. Natively integrated into SalesForce. Topics we discuss: Tips on how to build your reliable attribution model Metrics that matter for attribution How to use an attribution model in practice LinkedIn Bonnie Crater: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bonniecrater/  Website Full Circle Insights: https://fullcircleinsights.com/    The Marketing Technology Podcast is brought to you by Marketing Guys, the #1 Martech agency in Europe. If you want to be on this podcast or would like to know more about Marketing Technology, visit our website at marketingguys.com or contact Elias Crum at e.crum@marketingguys.nl

Bonnie Crater is an experienced B2B marketer and the CEO and President of Full Circle Insights. The company works with other businesses to get the most out of their Salesforce platform. She previously worked with Salesforce, Realization Technologies, and Genesys. Bonnie graduated from Princeton University with a degree in biology before pivoting to marketing and management at Oracle. In this episode… Marketing can feel like a game of trial and error — experimenting until something finally works. It's a haphazard approach, and while it can work, it often yields little reward. The best marketing strategies are precise, methodical, and built on a strong platform. Many companies use Salesforce as their platform, but how many use it to its full potential? Bonnie Crater started Full Circle Insights to not only help companies in their marketing, but to better navigate the Salesforce platform. She previously worked at Salesforce, so now she's channeling that experience into a marketing strategy that has consistently worked for herself and others. So what's Bonnie's approach? Alex Gluz has an insightful conversation with Bonnie Crater, the CEO and President of Full Circle Insights, to discuss marketing strategies. They touch on subjects such as revenue planning, agile marketing, and the barriers to entry for attribution. She goes on to discuss her own career and what her company does to stand out from the rest. Hear it all on this episode of the Revenue Engine Podcast.

Bonnie Crater is the president and CEO of the California-based marketing performance management company Full Circle Insights.The roles and responsibilities of C-suite executives have transformed significantly in the past year, and alignment has never been more crucial to the functioning of a company. In this episode, we discuss what this change means for the Chief Marketing Officer and how they should drive agility and alignment in their organization. We focus particularly on data and on the alignment between sales and marketing as two key factors in this.Links & mentions:salesforce.com/blog/how-to-create-alignment-within-your-companyfullcircleinsights.com

Bonnie Crater is the President & CEO of Full Circle Insights, which delivers Marketing and Sales measurement solutions and lead management technology for driving more revenue. The company built its products 100% on the Salesforce App Cloud and is compatible with the leading marketing automation solutions. Bonnie has a degree in Biology from Princeton and has cultivated that into a highly successful career in tech.Learn More.

Bonnie Crater is the President & CEO of Full Circle Insights, which delivers Marketing and Sales measurement solutions and lead management technology for driving more revenue. The company built its products 100% on the Salesforce App Cloud and is compatible with the leading marketing automation solutions. Bonnie has a degree in Biology from Princeton and has cultivated that into a highly successful career in tech.Learn More.

“There’s been a big change in how businesses went to market.” Through a storied career that has taken her from Netscape to Salesforce to Oracle, Bonnie Crater gave use some important context in how brand building for B2B tech brands has evolved in the valley and beyond. She also stressed the ongoing importance of experimentation and optimization. We discussed all of this and more this week on the On Brand podcast. About Bonnie Crater Prior to joining Full Circle Insights, Bonnie Crater was a five-time vice president of marketing and executive at many software companies in Silicon Valley. Bonnie held vice president and senior vice president roles at Genesys, Netscape, Network Computer Inc., salesforce.com, Stratify, Realization, and VoiceObjects (now Voxeo). A ten-year veteran of Oracle Corporation and its various subsidiaries, Bonnie was vice president, Compaq Products Division, and Vice President, Workgroup Products Division. In 2013, Bonnie was named one of the “100 Most Influential Women” by the Silicon Valley Business Journal, in 2015 the Sales Lead Management Association named her one of the “20 Women to Watch” and in 2016 Diversity Journal honored her as one of the “Women Worth Watching.” Bonnie holds a B.A. in biology from Princeton University. Episode Highlights “If you’re not experimenting, your marketing is probably going to get worse.” While most marketers and brand builders agree that experimentation is a good thing, few put this into practice in a consistent way. That’s why Bonnie advises, “20% of your marketing should be experimentation.” Agile + brand management? Bonnie’s work at Full Circle Insights sits at this intersection. “Our software is designed to help marketers optimize their mix.” “Most companies don’t measure enough.” Bonnie shared her thoughts on how measuring what matters supports ongoing optimization efforts. While there are countless metrics marketers can follow, Bonnie points to “measuring processes and budget effectiveness” as those most useful in optimization. What brand has made Bonnie smile recently? Our closing podcast question actually made the conversation for Bonnie’s family dinner the night before. While Bonnie pointed to Grisini as a brand that made her smile, the whole family loves the brand of Dog Whisperer Caesar Milan. To learn more, go to the Full Circle Insights website. As We Wrap … Did you hear something you liked on this episode or another? Do you have a question you’d like our guests to answer? Let me know on Twitter using the hashtag #OnBrandPodcast and you may just hear your thoughts here on the show. On Brand is sponsored by my book Brand Now. Discover the seven dynamics to help your brand stand out in our crowded, distracted world. Order now and get special digital extras. Learn more. Subscribe to the podcast – You can subscribe to the show via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, Stitcher, TuneIn, and RSS. Rate and review the show – If you like what you’re hearing, head over to Apple Podcasts and click that 5-star button to rate the show. And, if you have a few extra seconds, write a couple of sentences and submit a review. This helps others find the podcast. OK. How do you rate and review a podcast? Need a quick tutorial on leaving a rating/review in iTunes? Check this out. Until next week, I’ll see you on the Internet!

When COVID hit, B2B organizations had to cancel events and quickly pivot to digital campaigns and experiences. The KPIs to measure impact changed and, in turn, so did the benchmarks to success. What measurement challenges did marketers face in light of these strategic pivots? How will buyer preferences and digital channels change the way marketers measure success? How can marketers take a data-driven approach to agility? Hosts Alicia Esposito and Klaudia Tirico get into these and other topics with Bonnie Crater, President and CEO of Full Circle Insights.

This episode is brought to you by me. If you like this show and want to support it, please visit my courses on Pluralsight and buy my new book "200 Things Developers Should Know", which is about Programming, Career, Troubleshooting, Dealing with Managers, Health, and much more. You can find my Pluralsight courses and the book at www.developerweeklypodcast.com/AboutDan Appleman is an entrepreneur, author and speaker on both technology and career topics. He is currently the CTO and a co-founder of Full Circle Insights, a Silicon Valley marketing analytics company on the Salesforce platform. He is a Salesforce MVP and the author of numerous books including the best-selling book "Advanced Apex Programming". He also authors online courses on Pluralsight.com relating to the Salesforce platform as well as other technology and career topics.Show resources:Follow Dan on TwitterConnect with Dan on LinkedInDan's Pluralsight coursesDan's blogFull transcript:Barry Luijbregts  0:17  Welcome to another episode of developer weekly. This week, I'm talking with Dan appleman, about taking charge of your technology career. Dan is an entrepreneur, author and speaker on both technology and career topics. He's currently the CTO and co founder of full circle insights as Silicon Valley marketing analytics company on the Salesforce platform. And he is a Salesforce MVP, and the author of numerous books, including the best selling book, advanced Apex programming. He also authors online courses on pluralsight.com, related to Salesforce platform as well as other technology and career topics. Welcome then you really are a living legend. It's an honor to have you on the show. Dan Appleman  1:46   I very, it's it's funny, it's funny, you should use the word living legend. When I got into Salesforce. I was at a conference and you'll people who knew me from the Visual Basic days would come up to me and and there was like, Well, what are you doing with Salesforce? And there was the sort of undercurrent like, what he's still alive. So I don't know about the legend part, but living knock on wood still still with us. Barry Luijbregts  2:10  Yeah, you've been doing all of this for quite a long time. And you've pivoted a couple times as well. Dan Appleman  2:16  Anybody who's been in technology, as long as I have had better have pivoted more than once, because, you know, let's face it, the technologies I studied on and learned on and practiced for the first decade of my career are museum pieces. Now, literally museum pieces, I can go to the when I go to the local Computer History Museum in Mountain View. It's a real trip because I walked through there and said, Oh, I own that one. It's like, Oh, I wish I owned that one. And, and so yeah. Barry Luijbregts 2:47  That's how it goes.So today, I wanted to talk with you about career because I think that's a super valuable topic, and way more valuable than learning about the latest and greatest JavaScript framework. This is something that everybody can take something away from, because you are also kind of an expert on career topics as you created a bunch of little side courses on it. A lot of them I actually liked a lot, and a lot of you. So, first of all, why did you get into the career topic?Dan Appleman  3:18  Well, um, so there, there were basically two reasons. One was I had just finished my finished my first Pluralsight course, on apex. And I was thinking, wow, you know, wouldn't it be great to write create a course that would appeal to, to everyone to every developer? You know, of course, like that would do well, and, and, and I think I know a few things about a career. So I proposed to, to Pluralsight. Let me do a career course. And their reaction was, well, we've never done anything like that before. I don't know if anybody would be interested in watching it. But I had a lot of faith in it. Because you Even when I would speak at conferences, I found that speaking truth about what it is to be a developer is all too rare. And if you do speak truth about what we're really experiencing as developers, that it resonates with people, and it's important, so I did that was my first career and survival strategies for developers now for technologists because I broadened it and, and I continued to do career courses ever since because I think they are you know, as you say, we tend to focus on the technology, but the career part is so important. Yeah. Barry Luijbregts  4:40  Because technologies are transient. Like you said, you know, they they comment they go away. So you need something broader to actually keep you alive within your career and your your working life. Dan Appleman  4:51  And and all of the career skills and soft skills. I call them multipliers because they take whatever technology skills you have They multiply, they increase the effectiveness of those skills. And they last forever, they don't become obsolete. So I think that thinking strategically about your career is important. And this is something that these are all things that I wish someone had taught me because I did not know, or do or think about any of this stuff. For the longest time in my career, I would sort of Corinne from opportunity to opportunity saying, oh, time for a new job, what's out there? I didn't think strategically at all. And I really, you know, looking back, if only somebody had talked about these things, it would have been, I think it would have been valuable. Barry Luijbregts  5:43  Yeah, it's definitely not a topic that's been taught in school or a formal thing. So that that's lacking. But luckily, there's now resources out there like your pro site courses, for instance. I think when you talk about career, the first thing you should start Thinking about is well, how do you define success in a career? When is your career successful? When when are you happy with what you're currently doing? So how do you define success? Dan Appleman  6:12  It's incredibly difficult. And, you know, it's really easy to say, Well, I'm successful, because I'm making more money or because I got a title or promotion or, or, or something like that. But, you know, how many of us really know what we want in life? Right? Yeah, we have opportunities and, and, and we follow them. But, you know, do we think about what is important to us? Do we think about, you know, things like work life balance and, and what we're passionate about, and, and all of these kinds of questions, and they're very individual. So it is important to take the time to think about those things. But that doesn't mean it's easy. It's not a case where you can go to someone and say, Hey, you know, well Think about what success means to you. And he sort of dropped blank because that that requires soul searching. And it changes over time. You know, things that I considered a success, you know, 10 years ago are maybe different from what I consider successful today. Barry Luijbregts  7:16  Yeah, absolutely. I have to same thing when I was younger, I'm still pretty young. Actually. When I was younger, even, I found, I thought that I would be very successful if I had, you know, a nice car, nice house and a nice salary. But now I don't care about that as much. I just want to be home for my family for for dinner for my kids. That's how I define my success. Dan Appleman  7:41  And as a technologist, that is really, really hard because everything in our culture says, you know, if you're going to be a software developer in technology, you have to keep learning you have to keep up we have this intense pressure, that any minute that you're not spending, you're reading a textbook or Studying or something like that is is puts your career at risk. And it's all too easy to sacrifice friends and family and, and hobbies and other things to that pursuit. Barry Luijbregts  8:14  Oh, yeah, I definitely did that when I was younger as well. I just learned and worked into evenings and weekends open source thing there a side hustle there, just to just to keep up Really? Yeah, it's it's a lot of pressure. And actually, I got I got burned out. Like, five years ago, I had a burnout because of it. And because of that I had, well, first thing was to actually identify that it was a burnout. That was very difficult because I just stopped being productive. I was tired all the time. couldn't really get out of bed. didn't really see a reason to get out of bed. or sad. It just started crying out of nowhere. And then I just, my wife also said, well, you you're burned out. You're done. So I changed my life. That's Basically what I did as in, I changed how I worked, I stopped my current job, I was a freelancer, I stopped working for, for a company that was, was not fitting my purpose, because it was very frustrating to work there. I think that was a very big thing. And I had a little control over what I did. And I worked very hard. So I stopped that. And I started plural sites, and make Pluralsight courses. Dan Appleman  9:26  And, you know, it's very brave of you to say these things, because, you know, it's not something that that most developers, you know, especially in, you know, still to this day, a lot of technologists are men, right. And that's a hard thing in most cultures for men to talk about. You know, and one of the, the, I suppose, more selfish reasons that I would like to see more women in technology, aside from all of the great reasons like opportunity and so on, is it might cause a little bit of a shift of that culture to to have a greater appreciation for Being Human as a technology worker, right, and not just a coding robot, a lot of us are. So this is something I noticed. And I noticed relatively early when I was on the speaker circuit, and I'd go to all these conferences. And you know, you've been to conferences, you know that a lot of the talks are about the latest technology, the newest technology, what's coming next. Right? And officially, everybody goes to these because we're so excited about the new technology, but I think, yeah, I think the unspoken thing and this is what I started speaking about in some of my sessions was, we're attending these things because we're terrified that we're falling behind. Right, and we're gonna miss something and it'll impact our job and, and so on. And it's okay to speak to that. Right, it's okay to acknowledge that and in one of the messages that you'll see in A number of my courses is that when it comes to learning technology, the bleeding edge, which is the newest technology is the last place you want to be, unless you are a speaker or a trainer, or someone who really makes their living. Talking about the very latest technology, you really want to wait, you know, six months or a year, because if you wait, other people will get rid of the bugs. Other people will be writing blog posts, it's become so much easier to learn it, it's more stable. The bleeding edge is a terrible place to be as a working developer, it's a very inefficient place to learn technology. So unless it's a technology like right now Apex where it is my job to be right at the leading edge for everything else. I wait a year. You know, I look at the technologies about a year old. It's it's just I wasted less time dealing with that. Barry Luijbregts  12:01  Yeah, yeah, definitely Me too. I just, although some technologies I kind of have to get into as a Pluralsight author as well. And I'd like to get into like blazer, for instance, which is a new thing. But for production purposes, I stay away from it as well. And also just for peace of mind, because I don't want to deal with all that. Dan Appleman  12:21  I went through when Microsoft came out with ole and ActiveX. And they took all the component models they had, they had a VB x component model for Visual Basic, and they created this whole new calm, ActiveX thing. And it took a long time for it to come out. And the reason was that they kept changing it. I mean, we build something and they break it, we build something and they break it. It was a miserable, horrible, terrible experience for people who were trying to adopt this new technology. It was, yeah, was that I think that's where I really learned that how awfully stressful and difficult the bleeding edges. Barry Luijbregts  13:04  And we I think we've all been there. So yeah, so we just were talking about defining success and purpose. That's important. So my burnout, I took that time as well to reflect on what I actually found important two things that I felt was important in life. And that wasn't money and learning in the evening and then being the best developer. But spending more time with my family was more important. So let's, let's switch it up a little bit. So there are lots of people that are wanting to start a technology career want to become a software developer, let's say, Where should they start? I get this question a lot. Like, should I go to JavaScript? Should I go to a boot camp? Should I go to school? What should I learn? How should I learn it? What should I do? What are your thoughts on it? Dan Appleman  13:54  So I'll give you a very brief summary. So one of the early Career courses one did in fact, I just finished updating and I think the update should be published within a couple of weeks is called Learning Technology in the information age. And what I came to realize is that learning is a strategic decision, right? People say Where should I start? It is actually not a simple answer, you know, people say you should learn C sharp or c++ or you should learn JavaScript. And that's doing them a disservice. Because when really has to think about how do we learn technology? And what are the different components of learning technology? How do you balance things like fundamentals first, you know, which can be very long lasting with, with general information and, and with skills as one of the things I note in the courses, you know, people, you know, the the way I describe it is, we sort of know the cliche, knowledge is power, right? As I told cliche, we're in the information age and, and that's actually not true. Because one of the consequences of the information revolution is that knowledge is cheap. And information is cheap. I mean, we have so much access to knowledge and information, it's been devalued. So knowing something actually has very little value. The ability to do things with knowledge skills are where there is still value. So that's one aspect of, you know, it's not what do you want to learn is what skills do you want to develop? And then when you think about how do you learn something while learning isn't just I know JavaScript learning is this mix of fundamentals and information and skills and, and curation, which is, you know, what is the order? That's what the question you're being asked is, what is the order? What Where should I start? That's a question of curation, which is all important. So the answer the reason answer to that person is, you're about to invest a whole bunch of time learning technology. It's worth your while to spend a few hours to learn about learning technology to think about how you want to learn technology to think about to create a strategy. And, and that's what that course does. That course is all about, Okay, take a moment. We're going to spend a couple of hours now. And we're going to talk about learning itself, and all the ways you can learn and how to set priorities and how to figure out how to figure out for yourself the order. That makes sense. And that's why I can't really answer the question now. Because the answer is, you know, watch that course, spend a couple of hours and learn how to learn strategically, Barry Luijbregts  16:45  And then to create a strategy for yourself on what you're going to learn and how you're going to learn it. Dan Appleman  16:51  Absolutely, absolutely. And, and more important, how to do it efficiently because, you know, we're all busy. You want time Hang out with your family. So anything you can do to learn more efficiently is worth it. And, and I'm a real believer in that and, and I've gotten much better at practicing it myself and really thinking about, Okay, I'm gonna learn this technology, how am I going to go about it? What's my strategy? What's my plan? How far do I want to go? Because, you know, you don't have to become an expert, you cannot become an expert in everything. So, one of the questions to ask yourself is how, you know, what is what is the point where, okay, I've learned enough of this. Let me move on and learn something else. Barry Luijbregts  17:38  Right. And that's also the question of do you specialize in something or do you want to be a generalist more, right? Dan Appleman  17:45  When I was going to school, everyone told me you should specialize, you should specialize and I said, No, I am going to be a generalist. And in the course of my career, I have at times had expertise in certain areas. Right. But at a certain point, the technology changes or you change. You know, one of the ways I got into Salesforce was, you know, I was I was in dotnet. I was an expert in dotnet. Right, very, very familiar with, with Edyta probably a deeper level than most people. And I've, you know, you talk about personal crisis. In my case, it was about the time that my father passed away and I sort of had this you know, what do I do with myself now, you know, and in the truth is that between that and I just wasn't having fun without net, it's like, they're adding new features and they didn't seem to be, you know, providing that much value for all the effort I was spending to keep up. And then I bounced into the Salesforce world, and it was fun. And I know there are people out there who think Salesforce and think most, you know, evil language in the world, or whatever it was, it was an enormous amount of Have fun. And I was meeting people who were really enjoying being part of that ecosystem. It was a very real sense of community. A lot like I had experienced in the early days of Visual Basic, a little us against the world kind of thing. And I just sort of said, this is this is fun. You know, I'm having fun in the Salesforce platform. I am having a blast in the Salesforce platform.Pays well, too. But yeah. Barry Luijbregts  19:32  That's also important. Yeah. But but that's, that's a very important aspect of anything that you dive into. It has to be fun for yourself. Because there's so much to choose from nowadays. The world of technology is just incredible. It was much, much smaller. But now there's so much. If you look at something like Microsoft Azure, for instance, that's not just one technology. No, there are like 150 services that you can become an expert in. Dan Appleman  19:59  And plus then becoming an expert in just managing them on as your, your AWS is a whole other thing. And, you know, this is one of the things going back to somebody asking I want to get into a career in, in technology and technology's a hard career. And, you know, I didn't see that going into it originally. Because, you know, I saw that, hey, it's a career, I love technology. It's going to be a lot of fun. It's going to be interesting. I, you know, I'm, I'm as much a geek as they come. But what I didn't realize until much later is that the hard part of being a technologist isn't learning the new stuff. It's the fact that all the old stuff keeps going obsolete. And most careers don't have that, you know, like, if a doctor doesn't keep up. It's not like, the ways they treat people don't work anymore, right. Yeah. You know, most careers. Once you've gained the skill, the old stuff doesn't go away even as you're learning new things and But in technology, it is. So it's a hard career. It is, it is one that you have to resign yourself to learning, always. And in that stress of keeping up, so. So that's one aspect that people, you know, I don't necessarily discourage people from getting into tech. But I note this, you know, this is what you're getting yourself into. Barry Luijbregts  21:27  Yeah. And it has to be in your nature a little bit as well as in you have to be a lifelong learner, maybe by yourself, or you, or maybe you get into that. But if you're not, then you're gonna have a very, very difficult time in technology. Dan Appleman  21:39  But if you love technology, you want to learn it. So it's not that heavy lift. It's not that hard to do, right. But when people go into it just for the money, they discovered it, in some cases, that it becomes very costly because you're working for work and then you're also on the side in the evenings and other times struggling To keep up, and the money is costing you a lot. So Barry Luijbregts  22:05  Yeah, and is the money actually that good? Because in your course, the hidden secrets of technology careers, you explained that people in technology careers starts with a high salary, but it typically plateaus quickly. Yeah, I've seen the same thing where graduates, they have their job interviews at car dealerships, and then they pick out the lease guy right then and there. And later on, they get stuck in their jobs because then they plateau. Can you explain why that is? Why do salaries plateau in technology quickly? Dan Appleman  22:34  Why do salaries poplateau  in technology quickly? You know, that's a tough one. But there is no doubt that you know, for most companies, if you want to go past that, you have to really continue to see salary increases you end up having to go into management and which is fine, you know, nothing wrong with management. But it is hard to you know, Unless a company has a real specific technology track, and, you know, part of it is because, you know, when when you've been, you know, working for, say 10 years? Well, the stuff you did five years ago is obsolete. So, you know, why shouldn't a company hire someone cheaper? Yeah. Right. You know, that knows the same things that you do, presumably, at least in the technology side. So, you know, there's a certain amount of that there's a certain, you know, there's definitely age discrimination in, in the technology field. But other companies recognize that there are advantages to hiring, you know, the older technologists because, you know, they're bringing other things to the table, especially those that developed the leadership skills and the managerial skills and the soft skills. Barry Luijbregts  23:48  Yeah, because those are the skills that actually matter. You know, obviously, the skill in the technology matters as well. But if you can't think around it, then it's Have no use? Dan Appleman  24:01  Absolutely, absolutely. Barry Luijbregts  24:03  So you say one way of breaking through that salary plateau would be to become management, maybe a development manager or whatever, what have you. That's, that seems very difficult and quite a leap. Right? Because then you really stepped out of technology. Dan Appleman  24:20  It it, you know, it's funny, because one of the things I really became to came to realize system the past few years, as I'm teaching about careers is that I actually am a rather unique character in terms of my career path, because, you know, I've held an awful lot of titles. I mean, you know, right now, I'm a CTO, and I've been an entrepreneur and a speaker and an author and manager and the VP of software development and all of these kinds of fancy titles, but most of the time when you meet someone who's been working in a career as long as I have, they will respond to exactly the way it is like, yeah, you know, I miss developing software. haven't built anything in a long time, right? they've, they've turned completely to management. But in my career, the one constant The one thing that I've been doing all the time without a break for four decades now almost, is building production software and shipping software. Right. And I say that because, you know, as someone who's in software development, you know, there's a big difference between somebody who's a hobbyist and someone who's shipping product because, you know, shipping product is is releasing things. That's the thing. And, you know, in fact, let's see to today is Sunday. I think my last I think, last week, I'm working on I'm working on a branch that's not going to be out for a while. Last Monday, I put in a commit into our code base, that will probably be in a release not This week, but next week, and it will go out to hundreds of customers, and they'll be using it. So, you know, I'm still shipping software. And I think that gives me a rather unique perspective of what it means to have a technology career. It's possible, but it's rare for someone to keep their head in the game, even while doing all the other crazy things. Barry Luijbregts  26:22  Yeah, and I think for you, obviously, that's possible because you work for yourself, you're an entrepreneur. But for people that work in a company, it might be more difficult. And that will heavily depend on your company culture. Dan Appleman  26:36  That is very, very, very true. And, but it also brings up the other thing when we talk about getting over that salary, plateau. Entrepreneurship, and, you know, I have mixed feelings about it. I couldn't go back now. And it's not for everyone, but it is accessible to everyone. And I created a course called, so you want to be an entrepreneur, which basically is, okay, here's, here's the deal, here's how to do it. And I note that, you know, in the, I think the 1800s, if you look at the United States, 90% of the population were entrepreneurs, they were all small, small business owners. It was only with the industrial age that we got into the whole factory model and employees and so on. So entrepreneurs are nothing special, anybody can do it. Right. It really is one of those things. Yeah, you're not not everyone's gonna be a super billionaire, whatever. That's takes luck and genius, but just, you know, you're an entrepreneur. You're a Pluralsight author, right? Barry Luijbregts  27:40  And I have several businesses as well. Dan Appleman  27:42  So, you know, what I'm talking about most, most entrepreneurs are like, you and I were small business small businesses, you know, or, you know, founders or co founders or, or whatever and, you know, it is possible to busts the plateau. You know, when I first took that first leap by working really hard and doing some consulting, my first year as an entrepreneur, I made about the same amount of money as I did the year before that. The year after that, I doubled it. And the year after that, I doubled it again. And it was like, whoa. Since then, there have been ups and downs. There was one year looking back that I probably should have applied for food stamps. I think that was I think that was during the.com bust during like 2000 to 2003. But that's the the secret of entrepreneurship is people say, Oh, that's so risky. That's so risky. And what they don't necessarily realize it's a different kind of risk. losing your job. You know, being an employee, if you lose your job, you've lost all your income. That's pretty high risk. At the worst of the.com bust, my income didn't drop to zero. It dropped a lot but it didn't drop to zero. Barry Luijbregts  29:00  Yeah, plus, I think also, in the worst case scenario, you could also go and find a job. Sure. Dan Appleman  29:06  You might not like it find the job. Yeah, you can find the job. You can, you know, you can write articles nowadays you can Uber well, or doordash. Because I don't think this is the other challenge right now, when we talk about someone getting new into technology is we always have to be very careful in terms of how we advise people based on our own experiences. Certainly, you know, since I have since, you know, my entry to technology was so long ago, the world has changed. And, and, and one has to be, you know, careful with one's assumptions, and really be thinking about what the world is like now for people and the challenges they're facing now. And right now, the challenge is particularly difficult, because we are now in entering this new reality we are experiencing everywhere on the planet. At a disruptive change, so people are working from home. This is a terrible time to be looking for work. Barry Luijbregts  30:05  Yeah, absolutely. Dan Appleman  30:07  It is. One has to be careful, right, you know, in terms of giving advice, because one has to question all of one's assumptions. Barry Luijbregts  30:16  Yeah, definitely. And especially, we might not be the most typical people to talk about this. Because we have very different careers and most developers that work for companies. Dan Appleman  30:28  Well, you know, I did my time. Barry Luijbregts  30:31  Yeah, Dan Appleman  30:32  I did. I did my time. I was a cubicle dweller for a lot of years. So, you know, I, my, I started my first company when I was like, 31 or so. So the first more than 10 years of my career was, you know, small business and a startup but cubicle, you know, not a not a founder or anything like that just yeah, employee. So, you know, I remember that very, very well. And Of course, Now on the flip side, I've hired people, right? So I'm in the manager position and, and, you know, I try to keep a real eye and sense of what their experiences. Barry Luijbregts  31:12  So as we come to the end of our conversation, let's talk about one more thing. And it is, to me your successful career is one that's also results in comfortable retirement, as in, you're done. And you have enough money to live when you're not working anymore, if you choose to not work, of course. So how do you go about it, you know, as an employee, you might put your money into a big bucket of 401k, or whatever that is in your country. In the Netherlands is similar. We also have a pension fund and usually, the employer also pays a little bit into that and you pay in depth into that yourself as an entrepreneur, you have to do it all yourself. What are things that you can do to make sure that you actually end up with a comfortable retirement? Dan Appleman  31:59  well, You don't end on the easy ones do you?Again, one has to be really, really careful because whenever somebody offers financial advice, they'll say, Well, you know, the stock market has done this for the past six years. And yes, this rule and all this kind of stuff. And right now I look at the US stock market. And you know, we are, we are massive unemployment businesses are shutting down every day. Every sign indicates that the economy is suffering. And yet the stock markets hitting new highs, it makes no sense to me whatsoever. And I know it doesn't make sense to anyone else. And the way I know that is because when I look at the news feeds and the finance pages, you will find exactly on the same page one person who's saying, you know, here's why this is the best time to invest them the other person saying get out of the market, get out of the market. Yeah, nobody, nobody knows. So but I question The concept of retirement in the sense, because if you're having fun, if you're doing what you love doing, and if you enjoy technology, why would you stop? Right? I mean, really, especially nowadays, when you can do stuff on the road, right? I mean, you can, you can go drive cross country, and in the evening in the hotel room, you can work on gigs, or you can work on articles or, you know, this is the this is the golden age of the gig economy and technology as well. Why would you stop? I mean, if if you are in a career, and you are looking and saying, I wish it was over and I was done and I could retire, then I would say you're asking the wrong question. What can you do now to create for yourself that income stream that will be fun that you will want to do You know, and and everyone will tell you that having purpose, when when you're retired, just retiring is a terrible thing. It's bad for your health, having a purpose, having meaning having, you know, something to keep your mind sharp, of, you know, I plan to do PluralSight courses, you know, for as long as they let me because, you know, it's fun, and I get to share my experience and knowledge and, and so on. And, you know, I'm probably will at some point stop shipping code, not because I don't want to keep up but because if you ship code, you're, you know, are responsible for it, and you have to maintain it and know that at a certain point, you don't want to have to do that. But articles, you don't have to maintain articles. You don't have to maintain, you know, blog posts, white papers, books, you know, can always write a book. Anybody can do this stuff. So, but in terms of the financial stuff, the other thing is, take the time learn personal finance, right? Just Learn it. Barry Luijbregts  35:01  Yeah, dive into it. Dan Appleman  35:02  You're all technologists, you can understand basic finance, you can understand this stuff. You know, it's not rocket science. Barry Luijbregts  35:11  Yeah. So there's definitely no magic bullet, or investment strategy. There's no such thing. But I think the best advice here that that you gave is, why would you stop? If you like what you're doing. And if you don't like what you're doing, change it. Dan Appleman  35:27  The best investment you can ever make is investing in yourself, whether it's your skills or your knowledge, or figuring out what it is that you love doing or your health. You know, even when I was still, you know, a starving student or having tough financial times. If I wanted to learn something, I just go buy a book on it, and I would never begrudge the money I would never think twice because you know, anything that you're investing in yourself. That's what pays off. Barry Luijbregts  35:59  Yeah, that is amazing. And a great way to start doing that is to visit your Pluralsight courses and start learning. Dan Appleman  36:07  Please do.  Barry Luijbregts  36:10  All right, thank you very much for this enlightening conversation. I will link to all of your Pluralsight courses in the show notes as well. Dan Appleman  36:18  Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited about this. And I'm glad that you have found this project to work on as well. And I'm sure it's going to be very successful. Barry Luijbregts  36:28   Yeah, I love doing it because it helps people. Dan Appleman  36:31  Yep. And that's sort of one of the most fun parts of this, isn't it? Barry Luijbregts  36:36  Absolutely. Okay. Thank you for listening and tune in next week for another episode.

Full Circle Insights delivers marketing and sales performance management solutions to optimize a company's marketing mix and drive more revenue. The company offers multi-touch attribution, comprehensive funnel metrics and lead management technology. Built 100% on the Salesforce App Cloud, Full Circle Insights' products complement leading marketing automation solutions. Founded by former Salesforce executives, CRM implementation veterans and marketing automation specialists, the Full Circle Insights industry pioneers are seasoned in creating marketing measurement foundations to grow revenue. Bonnie Crater, CEO of Full Circle Insights joins me today on my daily tech podcast to discuss how the overwhelming amount of data currently being collected is being wasted, inferred incorrectly or used to create alternative facts. As a CEO of a leading MarTech company in Silicon Valley, I'm looking forward to her insights from the industry and if she can provide tips for harnessing the right data and using it to create actionable insights to inform business decisions.

Bonnie Crater. She’s the CEO of Full Circle Insights. She’s a 5-time VP of marketing and executive at many software companies in Silicon Valley. She’s been named one of the 100 Most Influential Women by the Silicon Valley Business Journal and one of the Top 20 Women to Watch by Sales Lead Management Association. Famous Five: Favorite Book? – N/A What CEO do you follow? – Marc Benioff Favorite online tool? — Docusign How many hours of sleep do you get?— 7.5 If you could let your 20-year old self, know one thing, what would it be? – “My path has been just fine”   Time Stamped Show Notes: 01:53 – Nathan introduces Bonnie to the show 02:24 – Full Circle Insights helps marketing people accurately measure and track the impact of their marketing campaigns on pipeline and revenue 02:50 – Full Circle Insights has an annual contract and usual contract which pays $30K a year 03:00 – Full Circle Insights launched their product in 2012, but it was started in 2010 03:10 – “Never start a company on December 31st” 03:18 – The IRS would want a tax return for 1 day of business 03:51 – Bonnie quit her VP of marketing job prior to Full Circle Insights 03:58 – Bonnie was invited by her friends to start Full Circle Insights and there are 4 founders 04:20 – Two of the founders were from Salesforce, including Bonnie 04:49 – Full Circle Insights is built on Salesforce 05:01 – Full Circle Insights was on Salesforce’s AppExchange 05:54 – Bonnie was a CEO in 2001, but it was a failure and she had to hire and fire a hundreds of people 07:35 – Bonnie was a VP of marketing a couple of times with different companies after the failure 08:04 – Full Circle Insights was initially bootstrapped, they raised $11M 08:14 – They raised money because they were going broke 08:21 – They were paying themselves 08:50 – First capital was raised in 2012 09:12 – Her first product was built from the money the founders had put in 09:32 – Dan, the CTO, is the developer 09:53 – Full Circle Insights has around 150 customers 10:12 – Team size is 35 10:38 – 8 in engineering and product, 12 in sales, 4-5 in marketing, 7-8 in customer success and some in accounting 11:17 – Full Circle Insights have broken around $4M in ARR 11:33 – Full Circle Insights’ model is to double, then triple 12:33 – Full Circle Insights has 90% renewal rate 12:40 – Churn is usually from acquisition and CMO changes 13:26 – Bonnie was hoping to have a 100% renewal rate in the coming years 14:37 – Full Circle Insights has a sales rep who has a puppy that he brought to the tradeshow 14:53 – The puppy became a booth magnet and they were able to acquire new customers 15:25 – Fully weighted CAC is $18-20K 15:30 – Payback period is less than 6 months 16:30 – Lowest marketing expenses is digital marketing and the biggest is from tradeshows and events 17:31 – LTV 18:30 – Full Circle Insights’ new VP of sales 19:01 – ARR target is $7M 20:50 – The Famous Five   3 Key Points: Never start your business on the last day of the year. We all make mistakes and we just have to learn from it—just don’t make the same mistake twice. Be creative and do what you need to do to draw new customers in.   Resources Mentioned: Simplero – The easiest way to launch your own membership course like the big influencers do but at 1/10th the cost. The Top Inbox – The site Nathan uses to schedule emails to be sent later, set reminders in inbox, track opens, and follow-up with email sequences GetLatka - Database of all B2B SaaS companies who have been on my show including their revenue, CAC, churn, ARPU and more Klipfolio – Track your business performance across all departments for FREE Hotjar – Nathan uses Hotjar to track what you’re doing on this site. He gets a video of each user visit like where they clicked and scrolled to make the site a better experience Acuity Scheduling – Nathan uses Acuity to schedule his podcast interviews and appointments Host Gator– The site Nathan uses to buy his domain names and hosting for the cheapest price possible Audible– Nathan uses Audible when he’s driving from Austin to San Antonio (1.5-hour drive) to listen to audio books Show Notes provided by Mallard Creatives

In episode #42, Simon and David talk with Dan Appleman, CTO at Full Circle Insights to find out the best ways for infrastructure admins to learn more about development. You want to get started in coding and the cloud? You want to ensure you future success in your career? Dan's got some great advice for you! WATCH NOW […]

In episode #42, Simon and David talk with Dan Appleman, CTO at Full Circle Insights to find out the best ways for infrastructure admins to learn more about development. You want to get started in coding and the cloud? You want to ensure you future success in your career? Dan's got some great advice for you! WATCH NOW […]

Bonnie Crater - President CEO of Full Circle Insights and Creating a Culture