Intended Consequences

In this episode of Intended Consequences, Brian Massey sits down with Deborah O'Malley, founder of GuessTheTest.com, to explore the fast-changing world of AI in experimentation — from A/B testing myths to the ways AI is already changing how digital marketers approach conversion optimization.  

Join us for "Beyond Data: How ChatGPT Uncovers Emotions to Fuel Effective Ad Concepts," a dynamic session exploring AI's transformative role in eCommerce marketing. Discover how ChatGPT leverages emotional sentiment analysis to go beyond numbers, capturing authentic consumer feelings to inspire creative ad strategies.  We will examine real-world examples, demonstrate actionable techniques, and discuss how emotional insights can drive winning ad concepts, compelling copy, and innovative campaign angles. This session empowers marketers to harness advanced AI tools, bridging the gap between data and human emotion to create powerful advertising campaigns. Unlock the secret to emotionally charged, results-driven advertising.  

Google's document leak uncovered surprising connections between conversion rate optimization (CRO), search engine optimization (SEO) and user experience (UX). Listen in as Conversion Scientists® Joel Harvey and Brian Massey talk about these connections and what they mean for optimizers. 

Conversion rate optimization (CRO) is important at every stage of your business. But not every website is ready for a full-team all-in conversion optimization team. You may not be able to do the A/B testing that is the hallmark of so many CRO projects. Here are conversion optimization techniques that work no matter where you are on the CRO spectrum. 

Jason Fisher is a search engine optimizer who understands the value of having pages that convert well. He takes us through his strategy of bringing qualified search visitors to our site and then turning them into leads, sales, and revenue.

What would it look like if you could give your digital brand a human voice? On today’s Intended Consequences, we brought in Rob Walch, VP of Podcaster Relations at Libsyn, the world’s leading podcast hosting site. Rob was one of the earliest podcasters in the industry and a highly sought-after speaker and consultant in the podcasting community. Listen in as he shares some fascinating insights on the world of podcasting, the numbers involved, and how a semi-digital medium fits in a digital marketing context.  Quick Links:  Connect with Rob Learn more about Libsyn Follow Brian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com/

Sales is a conversation, so how can you expect to sell if that conversation never happens, or doesn’t happen fast enough? On today’s show, Brian chats with Sammy James, CEO and founder of Speak2Leads, an automated lead response and follow-up tool.  Sammy is a sales and marketing guru with experience in media, radio, tech, and advertising. He understands the nuances of sales and the challenges marketers face when working with their sales teams, most importantly that salespeople are humans too, not cold-calling machines immune to rejection or sales inertia.  Listen in to hear the full conversation. Quick Links: Connnect with Sammy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sammyjames/ Learn more about Speak2Leads: https://www.speak2leads.com/ Follow Brian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bmassey Learn more about Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com/

After almost four decades, I believe the best choice for another shot at a conversion is still that quaint old communication medium: email. Email still can't be beat for rich content, for conversations that feel one-to-one, and for getting another shot at a future customer. It's the original social media platform.  Liz Willits is a self-professed email marketing nerd, and the Senior Content Marketing Specialist at AWeber, one of the ‘OG; email services. She has worked with some of the most successful marketers in the world to help them with their email marketing strategies.   Liz doesn't think you're sending too much on email, and she's got the data to prove it. If we're not sending too much on email, then what's keeping our email from being more productive? Listen in to hear her take.  Resources and links discussed: Connect with Liz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liz-willits/  Learn more about AWeber: https://www.aweber.com/  30-day Trial of AWeber: https://www.aweber.com/order.htm  AWeber Smart Designer: https://www.aweber.com/email-templates-smart-designer.htm?utm_source=awblog&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=smartdesigner&utm_content=blogcontent092619smartdesignerannouncement  Follow Brian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com/ 

Erin Collis, Marketing and Communications Manager at Corradi USA, has a lot on her plate (as we suspect you probably do as well).  Most marketers are holding dozens of ideas in their minds, many of which are in opposition, and then these poor souls are expected to be creative and thoughtful amidst all of this. It’s a barrier to a culture of experimentation in marketing, product development, and more. Listen in as Erin discusses the challenges of being a digital marketer in 2019. Resources and links discussed: Connect with Erin Learn more about Corradi USA Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

People like funnels because they provide us with some sense of progress in our marketing efforts, but the marketing funnel is under attack, especially in the B2B lead generation space. Carman Pirie (@pirie) is the co-founder of Kula Partners, an agency built to help leading manufacturers digitally transform marketing and sales to deliver more leads, close more prospects, and grow their competitive edge. The solutions that purport to step into the funnel's place come with their own baggage. The more interactions with someone, the more likely they are to be a prospect, right? However, this approach treats the funnel more like a swarm of flies. People seem to swarm around our content until, finally, and unpredictably, they qualify for a call. Carman believes there's something better than a funnel or a swarm, and his agency delivers that something better.  If digital marketing is a swarm, how is a swarm of bees different than a swarm of flies? Find out from Carman on this episode of Intended Consequences.  Resources and links discussed: Connect with Carman Learn more about Kula Partners Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Lance Loveday (@loveday) is the founder and CEO of Closed Loop, a digital advertising agency that specializes in paid media management.  As an optimizer by nature, digital marketing comes naturally to Lance. He’s analytical but also creative - he uses his left brain and his right brain.  In this episode of Intended Consequences, we discuss the tough questions to ask when bringing on external resources to solve your most important problems. Listen in as we explore how to find an agency relationship that gives you a competitive advantage.  Resources and links discussed: Follow Lance on Twitter @loveday Learn more about Closed Loop Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Chris Mercer (@merecertweets) aka ‘Mercer’ is not only good at analytics, but he's also good at teaching analytics. That's what he spends his days doing as the Co-Founder of Measurement Marketing.io.  Chris and his team help people like you discover how to grow your business using tools like Google Analytics, Google Tag Manager, Google Data Studio and more. Essentially, Chris helps people get to know the numbers - to grow the numbers.  He is genuinely excited about analytics, and Google Analytics specifically. He is infectious. So, if you listen to this episode of Intended Consequences, you might get excited about analytics, too. How can anyone plug into Google Analytics? And where do you start? You'll be surprised by some of Chris’ answers. Listen in.  Resources and links discussed: Follow Chris on Twitter @mercertweets Learn more about MeasurementMarketing.io Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

“The best way to really learn something is to teach it to someone else."  In this episode of Intended Consequences, we’re talking to BJ Fogg, PhD, author and founder of the Behavior Design Lab at Stanford University. His new book, "Tiny Habits," has turned business management lessons into a program for individual behavioral change. Anyone involved in marketing is involved in what BJ calls "behavioral design.” How can science change your behaviors and your marketing effectiveness? Habits make time for themselves. Listen in.  Resources and links discussed: Connect with BJ: bjfogg.com  Learn more about Tiny Habits: tinyhabits.com/book Follow Brian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com/ 

We're told terrifying things: that people have the attention span of a goldfish, that Millennials don't read, that we only have 8 seconds to make our point. No wonder we're confused about how to communicate through copy. However, the words we use to establish our value and persuade visitors to take action can be tested. Data to the rescue! Olivia Ross (@ortdesign) is the Director of Conversion Rate Optimization at Directive Consulting. She is a designer turned conversion optimizer who believes that copy is at the core of any great customer journey. How does Olivia increase conversion rates and ensure landing pages are optimized to succeed? Listen in. Resources and links discussed: Follow Olivia on Twitter @ortdesign Learn more about Directive Consulting Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

"CMOs are abdicating their strategic position in their businesses." Just when I was marveling at how much CMOs really must do for their brands, Laura Patterson, President of VisionEdge Marketing, said the above statement that stopped me in my tracks. Laura has been focused on performance marketing and the proper use of data since before it was "cool,” and if anybody knows what's going on with CMOs, it's her. A few weeks later, I was on a panel that brought up the Fornaise Marketing Group study. This study states that of the 1,200 CEOs polled, 80% of them did not trust and were not impressed by the work done by marketers. By comparison, 90% of them trusted their CIOs and CFOs.  I did some additional research and found more incriminating news. Forrester recently reported that "dozens" of major brands had eliminated the CMO position altogether, brands like Johnson & Johnson, Kellogg's, Taco Bell, and Netflix. I wanted to get to the bottom of this. Was I part of the problem, focusing on just one channel? And why does Laura believe CMOs are losing their seat at the table in the c-suite? Listen in to find out. Resources and links discussed: Connect with Laura: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurapattersonvem/  Learn more about VisionEdge Marketing: https://visionedgemarketing.com/  Check out the Fornaise Marketing Group study: https://www.fournaisegroup.com/ceos-do-not-trust-marketers/  Follow Brian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com/

There is a ceiling on your conversion rate. It's not your price. It's not your copy. It's not your form. It's eating your website from the inside out. It's causing your SEO to atrophy. It's causing your paid search placement to drop. It's causing your visitors to bounce, and it's only getting worse as mobile traffic grows.  What is the ceiling on your conversion rate? It may be....your page load time. On this episode of Intended Consequences, Lukas Haensch, founder of Pathmonk and former Google performance analyst, is bringing load time down to a level that we can all understand.  Listen in as Lukas discusses how to diagnose your site and some tactics to ask your tech team to implement to break through the ceiling.  Resources and links discussed: Run a free WebPageTest report on your site  Check out this Google Car-Buying Process article Lukas mentioned Connect with Lukas Learn more about Pathmonk  Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey Learn more about Conversion Sciences

On this episode of Intended Consequences, host Brian Massey is pulling in Joel Harvey - Chief Operating Officer at Conversion Sciences - and they’re talking website redesigns.   In this episode, the duo is going to tell you something that may surprise you. Website redesigns don’t have to be all or nothing. You don't have to push all your budget in and wait 3, or 6 or even 12 months later.  Brian and Joel are letting you in on a little secret: slow and steady wins the [website redesign] race. If you can incrementally test your way through it over, say half a year, you’ll know it’s working and there won’t be any doubts. If you're contemplating a website redesign, this is a must-listen.  Resources and links discussed: Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Follow Joel on Twitter @JoelJHarvey Learn more about Conversion Sciences

If you’re a designer, eventually your designs will be evaluated by neophytes. Whether you’re part of an in-house team or work for an agency, your best work is going to be scrutinized by company executives who never spent a day studying design or doing any UX research.  Do you stand alone defending your designs or give them what they want?  Tom Niemeyer is a Design Scientist at Conversion Sciences with over 18 years of digital design experience, and he has a unique perspective on the value of data to the designer.  On today’s show, Tom and Brian continue their discussion of data and the design process. Listen in as they examine how you can effectively defend your designs with data. Quick Links:  Connect with Tom Follow Brian on Twitter Learn more about Conversion Sciences

If you’re designing for the web, you’re in a wide-open space of possibilities. These seemingly endless options can produce anxiety and hinder your design efforts, as every unknown feels dangerous.  What if integrating data into your designs is the answer? Tom Niemeyer is a Design Scientist at Conversion Sciences with over 18 years of digital design experience. He has a unique perspective on the value of data for the designer.  On today’s show, Tom and Brian discuss the nuances of introducing boundaries to the design process, and how these constraints can improve the effectiveness of your designs. Listen in to hear the full conversation. Resources Discussed: Studies of Rats Quick Links:  Connect with Tom Follow Brian on Twitter Learn more about Conversion Sciences

When you’re attempting to persuade, do you emphasize the positive aspects of your offering or the potential loss of not taking action? This negotiation concept is called “prospect theory,” and today’s guest is an expert. Literally. Calum Coburn is the Director and Vice President of The Negotiation Experts, a training and consulting firm that enables sales teams to drive measurable profit improvements.  On today’s show, Calum and Brian discuss the finer points of “prospect theory,” along with how to start building the foundations of trust as soon as your prospects see your web copy. Listen in to hear the full conversation. Resources Discussed: Myers Briggs Test http://www.mypersonality.info/personality-types/ www.personalitytype.com/career_quiz Kolbe Index https://kolbe.com  Stanford Study: https://credibility.stanford.edu/guidelines/index.html The Speed of Trust by Stephen M.R. Covey Waiting for Your Cat to Bark by Brian & Jeffrey Eisenberg Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman Quick Links:  Connect with Calum  Learn more about The Negotiations Experts Follow Brian on Twitter Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Sales is a conversation, so how can you expect to sell if that conversation never happens, or doesn’t happen fast enough? On today’s show, Brian chats with Sammy James, CEO and founder of Speak2Leads, an automated lead response and follow-up tool.  Sammy is a sales and marketing guru with experience in media, radio, tech, and advertising. He understands the nuances of sales and the challenges marketers face when working with their sales teams, most importantly that salespeople are humans too, not cold-calling machines immune to rejection or sales inertia.  Listen in to hear the full conversation. Quick Links: Connnect with Sammy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sammyjames/ Learn more about Speak2Leads: https://www.speak2leads.com/ Follow Brian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bmassey Learn more about Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com/

What would it look like if you could give your digital brand a human voice? On today’s Intended Consequences, we brought in Rob Walch, VP of Podcaster Relations at Libsyn, the world’s leading podcast hosting site. Rob was one of the earliest podcasters in the industry and a highly sought-after speaker and consultant in the podcasting community. Listen in as he shares some fascinating insights on the world of podcasting, the numbers involved, and how a semi-digital medium fits in a digital marketing context.  Quick Links:  Connect with Rob Learn more about Libsyn Follow Brian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com/

In this episode of Intended Consequences, we’re bringing you a direct competitor of Conversion Sciences. Why? Because you need a second opinion, and we’d rather you find it here than on your own. So we’ve brought in Jon McDonald, the founder and president of a conversion optimization agency called The Good, to chat with Brian on when you should–or should NOT–start investing in conversion rate optimization. His method and background are surprisingly similar to Brian’s, and the two have been at it about the same amount of time. Listen in as they share some industry secrets, pricing models, and even a few facepalms. Quick Links:  Connect with Jon Learn more about The Good Follow Brian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com/

Listen in to Part 2 of Brian Massey’s conversation with Tara Hunt, CEO of Truly., as they continue to discuss the Cluetrain Manifesto. You can check out Part 1 by dialing back one episode in this feed or visit intendedconsequencespodcast.com for a full list. You can also hear Brian’s reading of the full Cluetrain Manifesto on this feed.  In this episode, you’ll also hear Tara’s thoughts on ‘Jobs to Be Done’ by the Harvard Business Review and Donna Pappacosta’s ‘Earbud Intimatacy’ theory when it comes to listening to podcasts.  Resources and links discussed: Connect with Tara: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/missrogue  Learn more about Truly.: https://trulyinc.com/  Cluetrain Manifesto: http://cluetrain.com  Donna Pappacosta’s ‘Earbud Intimatacy’: https://www.trafcom.com/about/  Jim Collins Flywheel: https://www.jimcollins.com/concepts/the-flywheel.html Know Your Customers’ “Jobs to Be Done”: https://hbr.org/2016/09/know-your-customers-jobs-to-be-done Follow Brian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com/ 

This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License. Contrarians are very important during times of change. They're often one step ahead of the herd.  Are you a marketing contrarian? Here's a quick test. Listen in as Intended Consequences host Brian Massey reads the Cluetrain Manifesto and make note of how you feel.  Are you feeling excited or just meh? If you're excited, you are probably a contrarian. Do you feel a sense of hopelessness as you read? Then you might be a contrarian trapped inside a role that is too rigid for you. If you felt hopeful, you may be in a place that works for you. Resources and links discussed: Cluetrain Manifesto: http://cluetrain.com  Creative Commons license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ Follow Brian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com/

Contrarians. They're trouble. At least they're trouble in structured organizations. They are the "But maybes" in your "Of courses!” They come up with the exceptions to your rules. It's hard for businesses to find a place for contrarians. But, when they do find their place, the results can be incredible. Think Steve Jobs: He was kicked out of the company he founded before returning to it at a desperate hour. In this episode, you’ll hear Tara Hunt, CEO of Truly., and host Brian Massey reminisce about the Cluetrain Manifesto, which was released in 1999. What has the impact been from this document? Did businesses learn the lessons of the Cluetrain Manifesto?  This conversation took so many turns that we split it into two parts. Our next episode features Part 2 of Brian and Tara’s conversation as they discuss social media, which was nothing like it was when the Cluetrain Manifesto was created. Resources and links discussed: Connect with Tara: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/missrogue  Learn more about Truly.: https://trulyinc.com/  Cluetrain Manifesto: http://cluetrain.com  Donna Pappacosta "Earbud Intimate": https://www.trafcom.com/about/  Jim Collins Flywheel: https://www.jimcollins.com/concepts/the-flywheel.html Know Your Customers’ “Jobs to Be Done”: https://hbr.org/2016/09/know-your-customers-jobs-to-be-done Follow Brian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com/ 

“The best way to really learn something is to teach it to someone else."  In this episode of Intended Consequences, we’re talking to BJ Fogg, PhD, author and founder of the Behavior Design Lab at Stanford University. His new book, "Tiny Habits," has turned business management lessons into a program for individual behavioral change. Anyone involved in marketing is involved in what BJ calls "behavioral design.” How can science change your behaviors and your marketing effectiveness? Habits make time for themselves. Listen in.  Resources and links discussed: Connect with BJ: bjfogg.com  Learn more about Tiny Habits: tinyhabits.com/book Follow Brian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com/ 

After almost four decades, I believe the best choice for another shot at a conversion is still that quaint old communication medium: email. Email still can't be beat for rich content, for conversations that feel one-to-one, and for getting another shot at a future customer. It's the original social media platform.  Liz Willits is a self-professed email marketing nerd, and the Senior Content Marketing Specialist at AWeber, one of the ‘OG; email services. She has worked with some of the most successful marketers in the world to help them with their email marketing strategies.   Liz doesn't think you're sending too much on email, and she's got the data to prove it. If we're not sending too much on email, then what's keeping our email from being more productive? Listen in to hear her take.  Resources and links discussed: Connect with Liz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liz-willits/  Learn more about AWeber: https://www.aweber.com/  30-day Trial of AWeber: https://www.aweber.com/order.htm  AWeber Smart Designer: https://www.aweber.com/email-templates-smart-designer.htm?utm_source=awblog&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=smartdesigner&utm_content=blogcontent092619smartdesignerannouncement  Follow Brian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com/ 

"CMOs are abdicating their strategic position in their businesses." Just when I was marveling at how much CMOs really must do for their brands, Laura Patterson, President of VisionEdge Marketing, said the above statement that stopped me in my tracks. Laura has been focused on performance marketing and the proper use of data since before it was "cool,” and if anybody knows what's going on with CMOs, it's her. A few weeks later, I was on a panel that brought up the Fornaise Marketing Group study. This study states that of the 1,200 CEOs polled, 80% of them did not trust and were not impressed by the work done by marketers. By comparison, 90% of them trusted their CIOs and CFOs.  I did some additional research and found more incriminating news. Forrester recently reported that "dozens" of major brands had eliminated the CMO position altogether, brands like Johnson & Johnson, Kellogg's, Taco Bell, and Netflix. I wanted to get to the bottom of this. Was I part of the problem, focusing on just one channel? And why does Laura believe CMOs are losing their seat at the table in the c-suite? Listen in to find out. Resources and links discussed: Connect with Laura: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurapattersonvem/  Learn more about VisionEdge Marketing: https://visionedgemarketing.com/  Check out the Fornaise Marketing Group study: https://www.fournaisegroup.com/ceos-do-not-trust-marketers/  Follow Brian on Twitter: https://twitter.com/bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences: https://conversionsciences.com/

"Marketing needs to generate more leads," says sales.  "Sales needs to follow up on the leads we're sending them," says marketing.   Sales and marketing: two functions that are critical to a business’s success. And from the first time something was sold, sales and marketing have worked independently.  This gulf, this canyon, this gaping sinkhole between sales and marketing has been around for a long time. That’s where Chris Wallace (@ChrisWallaceIVG), Co-Founder and President of marketing consulting firm InnerView, comes in.  In this episode, you’ll hear Chris’ solution on how to bridge the canyon between your marketing and sales teams. Listen in.  Resources and links discussed: Connect with Chris Learn more about InnerView Check out the brand transfer score blog Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

People like funnels because they provide us with some sense of progress in our marketing efforts, but the marketing funnel is under attack, especially in the B2B lead generation space. Carman Pirie (@pirie) is the co-founder of Kula Partners, an agency built to help leading manufacturers digitally transform marketing and sales to deliver more leads, close more prospects, and grow their competitive edge. The solutions that purport to step into the funnel's place come with their own baggage. The more interactions with someone, the more likely they are to be a prospect, right? However, this approach treats the funnel more like a swarm of flies. People seem to swarm around our content until, finally, and unpredictably, they qualify for a call. Carman believes there's something better than a funnel or a swarm, and his agency delivers that something better.  If digital marketing is a swarm, how is a swarm of bees different than a swarm of flies? Find out from Carman on this episode of Intended Consequences.  Resources and links discussed: Connect with Carman Learn more about Kula Partners Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Having a true understanding of your target customer is the first step in building an effective marketing plan.  How are they spending their time? Are they able to use the time they have to focus on their area of expertise? And do they have an interest in doing even better work? Come to think of it, we could ask these same questions of ourselves. It’s a full-circle approach that leads to better clarity about our target audience, enabling a more robust and focused marketing strategy. On this episode of Intended Consequences, Josh Thomas, Director of Marketing at Outbound Engine, shares how these three pillars inform their marketing strategy while also serving as the marketing solution for the customers. Listen in as Josh breaks down the dichotomy of marketing Outbound Engine’s marketing software solution. Resources and links discussed: Connect with Josh Learn more about Outbound Engine  Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

There is a ceiling on your conversion rate. It's not your price. It's not your copy. It's not your form. It's eating your website from the inside out. It's causing your SEO to atrophy. It's causing your paid search placement to drop. It's causing your visitors to bounce, and it's only getting worse as mobile traffic grows.  What is the ceiling on your conversion rate? It may be....your page load time. On this episode of Intended Consequences, Lukas Haensch, founder of Pathmonk and former Google performance analyst, is bringing load time down to a level that we can all understand.  Listen in as Lukas discusses how to diagnose your site and some tactics to ask your tech team to implement to break through the ceiling.  Resources and links discussed: Run a free WebPageTest report on your site  Check out this Google Car-Buying Process article Lukas mentioned Connect with Lukas Learn more about Pathmonk  Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Mobile best practices don’t really exist. Every audience is different, and Intended Consequences host Brian Massey has the tests to prove it. What works for one business doesn’t always work for others. In this episode, you’ll hear design ideas for your website’s mobile call-to-action buttons, so you can test them and discover what works. How can mobile call-to-action buttons increase conversions? Can you place more than one CTA per mobile page? What are the top placements for these buttons? Brian answers these questions and more on this week’s episode.  Resources and links discussed: Check out Conversion Sciences’ blog on Mobile CTA Buttons Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

We're told terrifying things: that people have the attention span of a goldfish, that Millennials don't read, that we only have 8 seconds to make our point. No wonder we're confused about how to communicate through copy. However, the words we use to establish our value and persuade visitors to take action can be tested. Data to the rescue! Olivia Ross (@ortdesign) is the Director of Conversion Rate Optimization at Directive Consulting. She is a designer turned conversion optimizer who believes that copy is at the core of any great customer journey. How does Olivia increase conversion rates and ensure landing pages are optimized to succeed? Listen in. Resources and links discussed: Follow Olivia on Twitter @ortdesign Learn more about Directive Consulting Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

As a customer, do you really want to create an account for every single website you interact with? Absolutely not.  On the other hand, you want online retailers to know who you are. Having a guest checkout is one way to keep people from leaving your ecommerce site before they buy. This is also why a website without a guest checkout is regarded as a “conversion killer.” In this episode, Intended Consequences host Brian Massey (@bmassey) dives into how you can test and implement guest checkout tactics to reduce cart abandonment, grow ecommerce sales and conversion rates, and have your customers actually complete the purchase.  Resources and links discussed: Check out the full article here Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Lance Loveday (@loveday) is the founder and CEO of Closed Loop, a digital advertising agency that specializes in paid media management.  As an optimizer by nature, digital marketing comes naturally to Lance. He’s analytical but also creative - he uses his left brain and his right brain.  In this episode of Intended Consequences, we discuss the tough questions to ask when bringing on external resources to solve your most important problems. Listen in as we explore how to find an agency relationship that gives you a competitive advantage.  Resources and links discussed: Follow Lance on Twitter @loveday Learn more about Closed Loop Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Erin Collis, Marketing and Communications Manager at Corradi USA, has a lot on her plate (as we suspect you probably do as well).  Most marketers are holding dozens of ideas in their minds, many of which are in opposition, and then these poor souls are expected to be creative and thoughtful amidst all of this. It’s a barrier to a culture of experimentation in marketing, product development, and more. Listen in as Erin discusses the challenges of being a digital marketer in 2019. Resources and links discussed: Connect with Erin Learn more about Corradi USA Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Barbara Cavness is the CEO of (un)Common Logic, a digital marketing agency that enables talented people to do great things. Her team investigates digital marketing data to find surprising facts that can solve their clients’ toughest problems. Barbara is very purposeful in her approach to building teams, even though she encounters all of the same obstacles that Conversion Sciences does.  In this episode, you’ll learn how this former Duke University lacrosse player became the head of a marketing organization and how she fosters teamwork, curiosity, and creativity. Resources and links discussed: Connect with Barbara Learn more about (un)Common Logic Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Chris Mercer (@merecertweets) aka ‘Mercer’ is not only good at analytics, but he's also good at teaching analytics. That's what he spends his days doing as the Co-Founder of Measurement Marketing.io.  Chris and his team help people like you discover how to grow your business using tools like Google Analytics, Google Tag Manager, Google Data Studio and more. Essentially, Chris helps people get to know the numbers - to grow the numbers.  He is genuinely excited about analytics, and Google Analytics specifically. He is infectious. So, if you listen to this episode of Intended Consequences, you might get excited about analytics, too. How can anyone plug into Google Analytics? And where do you start? You'll be surprised by some of Chris’ answers. Listen in.  Resources and links discussed: Follow Chris on Twitter @mercertweets Learn more about MeasurementMarketing.io Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey  Learn more about Conversion Sciences

What if you could see the analytics of any of your competitors' websites? Mike Roberts (@mrspy) is the Founder and CEO of SpyFu and Nacho Analytics. He’s also one of the most interesting people in online marketing. A digital marketing pirate, if you will. Mike founded Nacho Analytics because he’s passionate about the bootstrapper entrepreneurs of the world. You know - the people grinding away drinking coffee at midnight. He wanted to empower them, to disrupt the system. So now, Mike is making data and analytics broadly available for everyone. In this episode, you’ll hear why he's pricing this so anyone can access it, and what Google said when they learned he was pumping his data into Google Analytics for easy access. Resources and links discussed: Follow Mike on Twitter @mrspy Learn more about Nacho Anayltics Learn more about SpyFu Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Dr. Diane Hamilton is an expert in emotional intelligence and behavioral science. She is an author, radio host of “Take the Lead Radio,” and creator of the Curiosity Code Index - which we will dive into on this episode. Curiosity is a topic that is at the core of everything marketers do. We're all about experimenting,  discovering data, and getting answers when it comes to website redesigns, launches, and campaigns. What drives the desire to get these answers? Curiosity. And curiosity is a doorway into the mystical peak experiences called "flow." In some areas of our lives, we all find ourselves obsessing about how things work, why they work that way, and what we could do to make things better. Unfortunately, the area of our lives that we spend the most time on isn't the one we are most curious about: our work. Listen in as Dr. Hamilton discusses the four factors that limit our curiosity. Resources and links discussed: Connect with Dr. Hamilton Check out the Curiosity Code Index Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Tim Ash (@Tim_Ash) started his career in the ‘interwebs’ back in 1995, focusing on data-driven websites. On top of leading his CRO company SiteTuners, Tim is a digital marketing keynote speaker, founder of the Digital Growth Unleashed conference events, and author of the book Landing Page Optimization. To begin to understand how our visitors think, Tim suggests we stop looking inside our companies and turn our gaze outward. Who is showing up to your website? What’s their relationship to your business? Listen in as Tim explains why you should always work backward when it comes to a redesign. Start with your end users. Understand your audience. Then build. Resources and links discussed: Connect with Tim Learn more about SiteTuners Read Tim’s book Learn more about the Digital Growth Unleashed Conference Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Chris Nolan [not the Batman movie director] is the Senior Growth Strategy Manager at BigCommerce - and a former Conversions Sciences employee. Although Brian Massey and the team misses Chris, they have enjoyed seeing how a conversion scientist takes on a big organization like BigCommerce, a company that builds e-commerce software for businesses. Chris jumped out of his lab coat and into the fire as BigCommerce recently redesigned its website. You’ll hear Chris’ challenges and triumphs as a new hire nudging a culture from the bottom during a website relaunch. His challenge is the same challenge that "woke" marketers are facing in every industry - how do I get an entrenched culture to adopt data and testing? In this episode, you’ll hear Chris walk us through agency relationships, differentiating mobile from desktop sites and how to think ‘market-first’ to get the right site experience for your next redesign. Resources and links discussed: Connect with Chris Learn more about BigCommerce Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Imagine your website is a doll. You choose the clothes, hats, and shoes for it. Some you buy, some you make yourself. Your website is similar. You rent server space from a host and drop a content management system on it. It’s a generic, website-shaped form that you can begin dressing. On this episode of Intended Consequences, we’re talking with David Vogelpohl (@wpdavidv), VP of Web Strategy at WP Engine, a premium WordPress platform. You’ll hear how - contrary to popular belief - data doesn’t really matter for David and his team when it comes to website redesigns. He says no matter what, an agency has to use data to show customers the results - and as an agency, you have to live with the good - and the bad. David tells us the website host you choose forms the bones of your ‘digital doll’ - and limits what you can make of it. Listen in as he explains. Resources and links discussed: Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey Follow David on Twitter @wpdavidv Learn more about WP Engine Learn more about Conversion Sciences

On this episode of Intended Consequences, host Brian Massey (@bmassey) is pulling in Joel Harvey (@JoelJHarvey) - Chief Operating Officer at Conversion Sciences - and they’re talking website redesigns.   In this episode, the duo is going to tell you something that may surprise you. Website redesigns don’t have to be all or nothing. You don't have to push all your budget in and wait 3, or 6 or even 12 months later. Brian and Joel are letting you in on a little secret: slow and steady wins the [website redesign] race. If you can incrementally test your way through it over, say half a year, you’ll know it’s working and there won’t be any doubts. If you're contemplating a website redesign, this is a must-listen. Resources and links discussed: Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey Follow Joel on Twitter @JoelJHarvey Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Trying to understand what a company thinks they need to accomplish compared to what they actually need to accomplish is not an easy task. That’s where Dan McGaw (@danielmcgaw), CEO of Effin Amazing, comes in. On this episode of Intended Consequences, we’re talking about ICE Framework - what it means and how marketers can apply it as they experiment. Dan and his team identified that a missing component of this framework was Velocity, or the speed at which a test can be completed with statistically significant results. Hear how Dan applies this VICE model to everything from his clients’ marketing projects to hiring new candidates on this week's episode. Resources and links discussed: Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey Follow Dan on Twitter @danielmcgaw Learn more about Effin Amazing Learn more about Conversion Sciences

In this episode of Intended Consequences, we’re digging into agency management - how to leverage the relationship and how to think about the relationship. You’ll hear from Garrett Mehrguth (@gmehrguth), CEO of Directive Consulting, on why regardless of the research done, the pitch meeting is a tough time for the agency. That initial agency pitch meeting brings out bias. It becomes about pleasing the client - not the client’s customers. This is how failed campaigns get launched. This is how agencies get canned. Garrett tells us how to solve these problems on this week’s episode. Resources and links discussed: Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey Follow Garrett on Twitter @gmehrguth Learn more about Directive Consulting Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Are visitors engaged enough to get through the pages of content on your website? On today’s Intended Consequences, Hotjar’s Andrew Michael is breaking down a tool that’s focused on helping you understand your users. You’ll also hear how to understand which tools are truly valuable, and which are just giving you "interesting" insights. If you’re striving to learn how tools actually empower marketers to serve their online prospects better, listen in. Resources and links discussed: Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey Follow Andrew on Twitter @andrewmichaelsa Learn more about Hotjar Learn more about Conversion Sciences

On this episode of Intended Consequences, we’re talking with Lindsay Tjepkema, Director of Marketing for the Americas at Emarsys. Lindsay is a marketer who markets to marketers. Find out how she walks the line between creativity and efficiency, crayons and spreadsheets, design and databases - and how she uses marketing stacks to create stacks of cash. Listen in as we dig into the question of "why is it that marketers seem to struggle to get to that next to the next level of success?” Resources and links discussed: Follow Brian on Twitter @bmassey Follow Lindsay on Twitter @blueprintmkt Learn more about Emarsys Learn more about Conversion Sciences

Key Takeaways: Moore’s Law. Back in 1965, Gordon Moore predicted that we’d be able to fit twice as many transistors on a microchip every year. We are experiencing a golden age of tools - the tools are getting better, less expensive and getting easier to use. The future of marketing AI. Is it all about personalization? Are the metrics you’re optimizing for clear? And if not, can AI even work for you? Or how do we take all this data and make it matter? Contextualization. We are taking this idea of personalization and introducing you to a new term - contextualization. Everything you do as a marketer should flow from optimization. By understanding the metric first, then you can ideate and create based on the context that’s being emerged from the data. Resources and links discussed: Follow Brian on Twitter - @bmassey Follow Olcan on Twitter - @Olcan Learn more about Scaled Inference Learn more about Conversion Sciences