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In this episode of Pastors Talk, Caleb Morell and Mark Dever sit down with Australian author Tony Payne (co-author of The Trellis and the Vine) to discuss his new book, Let the Word Dwell Richly. Payne makes the case that alongside the public preaching of the Word, the New Testament everywhere assumes a "one another word" — believers speaking Scripture and its implications to one another for mutual spiritual benefit.
Title: Clarifying the Message to the Nations Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Mission Begins Passage: Acts 15:1-41
In this special episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever welcome John Piper to reflect on his book The Pleasures of God, newly reissued by Crossway. Together they explore why God's self-exaltation is not vanity but love, how grace overflows from a God who is full and free, the connection between God's glory and His happiness, and why a gloomy view of God distorts everything downstream.
Title: God Opened the Nations Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Mission Begins Passage: The Acts of the Apostles Acts 14:1-28
Title: Turning to the Nations Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Mission Begins Passage: Acts 13:1-52
Title: The Mission Begins: A Costly Advance Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Mission Begins Passage: The Acts of the Apostles Acts 12:1-25
In this episode of Pastors Talk, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever discuss the unusual sermon Mark preached on July 5th, 2026 — the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence; tackling the question, "Are we celebrating the 250th anniversary of a sin?"Along the way they reflect on when to depart from expositional preaching for a topical occasion, rightly ordered love of country versus idolatry.
In Episode 3 of their June series on pastors who have helped shape their spiritual lives, Greg and Nathan discuss two influential voices whose ministries have deepened their understanding of Scripture and the Christian faith. Greg highlights Mark Dever and his commitment to healthy churches, biblical preaching, and discipleship, while Nathan shares about R. C. Sproul and his profound teaching on the holiness of God, theology, and the authority of Scripture. After providing a brief biography of each pastor, they reflect on what they appreciate most about their ministries and how God has used their teaching to encourage growth, conviction, and a deeper love for Christ. Join us for a thoughtful conversation about faithful ministry and the pastors who have influenced our walk with the Lord.
In this episode, we explore the gift of friendship through a biblical lens. We discuss how Scripture's vision of friendship differs from the world's, the common obstacles that keep us from cultivating deep relationships, and the close connection between friendship and discipleship. We also talk about maintaining meaningful long-distance friendships and why these relationships have lasting, even eternal, significance. Whether you're longing for deeper community or seeking to be a better friend, we hope this conversation encourages you to pursue friendship as one of God's good gifts.Resources:The Four Loves by C.S. LewisDiscipleship by Mark Dever
In part three of their series on raising up leaders, Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever work through nine practical principles Mark uses to identify and develop future pastors — from spotting qualified men and extending trust early, to delegating well, cultivating feedback loops, embracing a healthy view of authority, and modeling clarity and humility. Along the way they discuss why spending time with a few people often matters more than chasing a platform, and why a senior pastor who always wins the vote is quietly undermining his own eldership.
Title: A Church for the Nations Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Mission Begins Passage: Acts 11:1-30
Jonathan Leeman and Mark Dever continue their conversation on raising up leaders, exploring the connection between discipleship, evangelism, and church planting, how to measure ministry fruitfulness beyond numbers, and what it means to steward your church for the next pastor.
Title: Peter and the Nations Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Mission Begins Passage: Acts 10:1-48
Title: A Man for the Nations Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Mission Begins Passage: Acts 9:1-43
By Warren Cole Smith Megachurches are not going away, of course. But data in recent years suggest their growth and numbers are leveling out, and possibly even declining. In 1970, the United States had less than 20 protestant megachurches, churches with more than 2,000 in weekly attendance. Today, that number is close to 2,000, a 100-fold increase. However, this number has been mostly unchanged for the past 10 years. In other words, after a period of explosive growth from 1970 to about 2010, the growth in the number of megachurches, and the number of people who attend them, seems to have stagnated. Outreach Magazine publishes an annual list of the fastest growing churches in America, and the largest churches in America. I recently compared the most recent list to the list from 2006 — 20 years ago. My analysis was not comprehensive, but it was fascinating. For example, the largest church on the 2006 list was Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, pastored by Joel Osteen. In 2006 and 2026, the attendance listed was 45,000. No growth whatsoever over a 20-year period. The No. 2 church on the 2006 list was Florida's Without Walls International Church, led by Randy White, the former husband of Prosperity Gospel preacher and Trump advisor Paula White. Without Walls had 23,900 attendees in 2006. Today, that church is not on the list. It sold its facility in 2011 following the divorce of Randy and Paula White, not to mention other public scandals. Today, the church still exists, but attendance figures are hard to come by. Attendance is likely in the hundreds or — at most —low thousands. Not the tens of thousands of its heyday. The No. 3 church on the 2006 church is the Second Baptist Church of Houston, which listed attendance of 22,266 in 2006 and still has attendance of 19,564 today. That is a slight decline over the past two decades, but Second Baptist is still a substantial church and a force in the Houston area. Rounding out the Top Five on the 2006 list are New Birth Missionary Baptist Church (22,000) and Willow Creek Church (21,500). Both churches have been wracked by scandal and are now much smaller today than then. In short, not one of the Top Five churches of 2006 grew in the intervening decades, and three of the five had very public scandals that precipitated dramatic declines. I do not want to overstate my case. As William Bennett famously said, “The plural of anecdote is not data.” I am sharing anecdotes, not data — or at least, not all the data. I will be the first to admit that. And I can think of a couple of good counterarguments to my thesis that the Age of the Megachurch is over. First, while these churches have declined, others have emerged, and some of them are very large indeed. For example, Life.Church of Edmond, Okla., led by Craig Groeschel, now claims 85,000 attendees. That makes it the largest church in the nation. Church of the Highlands of Birmingham, Ala., is led by Chris Hodges. That church claims 60,000 attendees. And Christ's Church of the Valley in Peoria, Ariz., is both the No. 3 church on this year's list and it remains one of the fastest growing churches in the country, with 54,142 in weekly attendance. However, it is worth noting that all three of these churches are multi-site churches. Life.Church has more than 45 physical locations. Church of the Highlands has at least 27 locations. Christ's Church of the Valley has more than 18 physical locations. The multisite phenomenon was rare in 2006 and nonexistent in 1970. It is obvious that if these multisite churches were not aggregating numbers from dozens of sites, their numbers would be much less eye-popping. The growth in multi-site churches, and the anemic growth in the number of megachurches also make obvious that American infatuation with megachurches seems to be in decline. Ryan Burge, my “go to guy” when it comes to church data, notes that the median size of a church in America is about 70 people. Put plainly, the nation's megachurches attract about five to seven million people each week. But non-megachurches attract 10 times that many — 50 to 70 million people. In other words, the megachurch is not now, nor has it ever been, representative of the church experience in the United States. Megachurches feel dominant because they receive media attention, and they can invest in radio, television, and other mass media. But that is an illusion. Will these trends continue? The answer to that question is, likely, “yes.” First, lots of church leaders, even those in the church growth movement, are growing tired of the megachurch and multisite model. Here at MinistryWatch, we have written about Watermark Church, which abandoned its multisite model in 2021. Most of those sites became independent churches, and they are now thriving. Some of these independent churches have themselves planted churches. Mark Dever, pastor of Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington, D.C., is someone who has never embraced either the megachurch or the multisite model. His church has intentionally stayed relatively small, less than 1,000 in weekly attendance, and it has been equally intentional about planting churches in the D.C. area. So far, CHBC has helped plant or revitalize more than a dozen churches in the surrounding area. Secondly, it is important to note that the megachurch is at least as much a cultural phenomenon as it is a spiritual phenomenon. Megachurches are the brainchild of Baby Boomers and the post-World War II industrialization of America and the world. That is why I often refer to the “Evangelical Industrial Complex” to describe what has happened to religious life since the 1970s. The industrial model, with its features of scale and mass production, has proven damaging to the mission of the church, and it has lost its appeal to subsequent generations, who value community and relationships. We can now see that evangelicalism's industrial model is good at empire building, but not as good at kingdom building. So, to return to the question that started this conversation: Is the Age of the Megachurch over? The answer to that question may be that it really never was. The sturm und drang of the megachurch movement has turned out to be just what Goethe's famous expression suggests: overwrought, full of passion, but fleeting. Megachurches will not disappear, but after a half-century of observation, we can say that the legacy of the megachurch is mixed, and includes scandal, spiritual deconstruction, and cynicism. In short, becoming a megachurch is no longer the goal to which even church growth advocates aspire. Many faithful Christians are discovering the wisdom found along the Old Paths, and they can say with conviction E.F Schumacher might admire: “small is beautiful.” The producer for today's program is Jeff McIntosh. I'm your host Warren Smith. Until next time, may God bless you.
Title: Preaching to Magicians and Politicians Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Church Begins Passage: Acts 8:1-40
Title: The First Martyr Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Church Begins Passage: Acts 7:1-60
Jaime grew up in small-town Massachusetts. Having grown up a nominal Roman Catholic, Jaime had little interest in God beyond maintaining a veneer of morality, which he often cast off at his own convenience. By God’s grace, while in college, Jaime was born again while hearing a sermon on Luke 15. Upon graduation, Jaime served as a police officer, but after three years, though he loved the work, he resigned and moved to Louisville, Kentucky to pursue a Master of Divinity. During his studies, he met Dr. Mark Dever, Senior Pastor at Capitol Hill Baptist Church, and moved to Washington, DC to be an intern and serve as Mark’s personal assistant for the next two years. After this time, he moved to Providence, RI and served as Associate Pastor at Grace Harbor Church for the next year and a half. Jaime was called to be Senior Pastor of Tremont Temple in April of 2017. He is married to Adriana and is daddy to Mercy, Audrey, Jack, and Noah. Jaime holds a B.S. from Bridgewater State University in Criminal Justice, an M.Div from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, and a Th.M with a focus on preaching from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. Jaime also serves as an adjunct professor in the Biblical and Religious Studies program at Sattler College in Boston. Jaime’s interests include history and literature, woodworking, a bit of surfing, daily hand grinding his pour over coffee with the help of Jack and Noah, running and barbell training, and short family adventures.
If you've been burned by the church, this episode is for you.Church hurt isn't rare, it isn't new, and it isn't evidence that something is uniquely broken in you. From prophetic words that never came to pass, to pastors who weaponized loyalty language, to leadership boards that protected predators instead of people, church hurt and spiritual abuse happen. Many believers are left sitting on the edges of the body of Christ, quietly debating whether walking back through those doors is even worth it.What makes this moment different is that people are no longer just recognizing these patterns at the national level. They're seeing them in their own local churches: the same cover-ups, the same gaslighting, the same spiritual abuse dressed up in theological language. And the question they're asking isn't just "what went wrong?" It's "how do I ever trust again?"In this episode, Joshua Lewis gives you the theological grounding to stop blaming yourself, the cultural and structural markers to help you spot a healthy church before you're two years deep in another painful situation, and the practical steps to walk back in - slowly, wisely, and without getting burned again. If you or someone you love is theologically homeless right now or wondering how to find a healthy church, this one is worth your full attention.0:00 – Introduction0:15 – Church Hurt Narrative5:24 – Disillusionment Defined6:13 – Leadership Failures Normalized10:12 – Enemy's Isolation Tactic12:14 – Head vs. Heart Tension13:27 – Nine Marks Overview20:09 – Cultural Markers (Krueger)27:28 – Finding a Healthy ChurchRESOURCES MENTIONED:
It can be difficult for a young pastor to succeed in ministering to an older congregation. In 1 Timothy 4:11-5:2, as John Stott points out, the apostle Paul gives six pieces of instruction to both the young pastor and older congregation about how to handle this type of situation. March 15, 2026 Helpful resources that shaped and influenced this sermon: The Message of 1 Timothy & Titus by John Stott; 1 Timothy by Philip Graham Ryken; 1-2 Timothy & Titus by R. Kent Hughes & Bryan Chapell; The Letters to Timothy and Titus by Robert W. Yarbrough; Discipleship by Mark Dever.
Title: Divisions, Deacons, and Disciples Multiplied Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Church Begins Passage: Acts 6:1-15
Title: Opposed but Joyful Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Church Begins Passage: Acts 5:1-42
Title: Preaching and Persecution Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Church Begins Passage: Acts 3:1-4:37
Title: The Spirit of God Descends Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Church Begins Passage: Acts 2:1-47
Who should serve as an overseer, or elder, of a local church? After remarking on how this role is a noble one, in 1 Timothy 3:1-7, Paul gives a list of qualifications for those in this office.February 1, 2025Helpful resources that shaped and informed this sermon: The Message of 1 Timothy & Titus by John Stott; 1 Timothy by Philip Graham Ryken; 1-2 Timothy & Titus by R. Kent Hughes & Bryan Chapell; The Letters to Timothy and Titus by Robert W. Yarbrough; Exalting Jesus in 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus by David Platt, Daniel Akin, & Tony Merida; Discipling by Mark Dever.
Title: The Son of God Ascends Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Church Begins Passage: Acts 1:1-26
Title: Love's Triumph Preacher: Mark Dever Series: What is Love? Passage: Hosea 14:1-9
Jon covers the news pertinent for conservative American Christians including the rise in religious "nones," the new CEO of Christianity Today, Summit Church's continued soft-peddling of illegal immigration, Trump's executive order to help Christian families participate in the Foster Care system, Jonathan Leeman's defense of Mark Dever and acknowledgement that Christians shouldn't vote for pro-choice candidates, and more!Order Against the Waves: Againstthewavesbook.comCheck out Jon's Music: jonharristunes.comTo Support the Podcast: https://www.worldviewconversation.com/support/Become a Patronhttps://www.patreon.com/jonharrispodcastSubstack: https://substack.com/@jonharris?Follow Jon on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jonharris1989Follow Jon on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jonharris1989/Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/conversations-that-matter8971/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy
Title: Love's Failure Preacher: Mark Dever Series: What is Love? Passage: Hosea
Title: Love's Requirement Preacher: Mark Dever Series: What is Love? Passage: Hosea
Title: Tough Love Preacher: Mark Dever Series: What is Love? Passage: Hosea 4:1-7:16
Jim Osman addresses pressing questions in a Q&A covering evangelical concerns and biblical faithfulness. Topics include The Gospel Coalition's theological drift, the modern deliverance ministry movement undermining Scripture's sufficiency, and the Seven Mountain Mandate infiltrating evangelicalism. Osman examines distinctions between essential and non-essential doctrines, female pastoral roles, biblical canon formation, and King James Only errors. He emphasizes that sufficiency of Scripture remains the central battle within evangelicalism today, as experiential theology displaces confidence in God's Word.Questions AskedWhat is the current state of The Gospel Coalition?What do you think about Al Mohler, Mark Dever, and Ligon Duncan's return to Shepherd's Conference?What issues within evangelicalism today should we be on guard against, especially for our children?How do you have a conversation with an unbeliever about God's sovereignty and evangelism?How important is a church prayer chain?What is the Seven Mountain Mandate and its connection to Turning Point USA?Are you a Christian nationalist?What resources would you recommend about how we got our Bible and why certain books were included in the canon?What is your position on female pastors in the church?How do you argue with people who are King James Version (KJV) only?Are there different shades of false teachers, and what about believers who fall into sexual sin like Steve Lawson?What camp would Solomon fall into - believer or unbeliever?What's the difference between Paul's response to the Judaizers in Galatians versus those who preached the gospel with false motives in Philippians? ★ Support this podcast ★
Title: Love Threatened Preacher: Mark Dever Series: What is Love? Passage: Hosea 1:1-3:5
Title: The Book? Preacher: Mark Dever Series: What will finally happen to... Passage: Revelation 22:16-21
Title: The Promises? Preacher: Mark Dever Series: What will finally happen to... Passage: Revelation 22:6-15
Join host Aaron Renn as he sits down with Caleb Morell, author of A Light on the Hill, to explore the rich history of Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington, D.C. Founded in 1878, this evangelical church, located just blocks from the U.S. Capitol and Supreme Court, has remained steadfast in its theological convictions while navigating cultural, political, and social changes over 150 years. From its founding by Civil War veterans to its role in the fundamentalist-modernist controversy, urban challenges, and the revitalization under pastor Mark Dever, this episode uncovers what makes this church a unique case study in American Christianity. Learn how Capitol Hill Baptist has maintained its gospel-centered mission amidst D.C.'s evolving landscape, including its response to suburbanization, gentrification, and even a lawsuit against the city during COVID-19.CHAPTERS:(00:01 - Introduction)(00:24 - What Makes Capitol Hill Baptist Unique?)(03:33 - Founding and Early History (1878))(05:42 - Capsule Summary of the Church's History)(09:24 - The Fundamentalist-Modernist Controversy)(14:56 - Suburbanization and Desegregation in the Mid-20th Century)(20:54 - Urban Planning and Parking Lot Disputes)(22:12 - Racial Integration and Social Engagement)(27:31 - The Marion Barry Era and Urban Violence)(32:13 - Mark Dever's Arrival and Church Revitalization)(35:50 - Gentrification and Its Impact)(38:38 - COVID-19 Lawsuit and Church Response)(41:38 - Commitment to Single-Service Gatherings)(45:09 - Political Engagement Over Time)(49:17 - The Importance of Institutions)(52:11 - Closing Remarks)CALEB MORELL'S LINKS:
Title: The Fall Preacher: Mark Dever Series: What Will Finally Happen? Passage: Revelation 22:1-5
Title: The Creation Preacher: Mark Dever Series: What Will Finally Happen? Passage: Revelation 21:1-27
In this episode, Jason and Duffey discuss the Council of Nicaea (A.D. 325) and the Nicene Creed. This year marks the 1,700th anniversary of the this church council. What do Christians believe about the doctrine of trinity? What do we believe about the person of Christ? The Nicene Creed serves as the classic statement and the orthodox guideline for biblical teaching on the Christian doctrine of God. After listening to the episode, see below for recommended further listening/study. Mark Dever, sermon on the Council of Nicaea https://www.capitolhillbaptist.org/sermon/nicea-true-god-from-god/ Gavin Ortlund, exposition of the Nicene Creed https://youtu.be/2KuLiL0Am78?si=_01aAwRZy9TuSLNm R.C. Sproul, on the Nicene Creed https://youtu.be/9QmeBPHOXLY?si=2hB-0bndvaNq0KXt Michael Reeves, relevance of the Nicene Creed for today https://youtu.be/xN0I5RocSdM?si=jJg0ngYBcNg7zjF2
Title: The Revolution? Preacher: Mark Dever Series: What Will Finally Happen? Passage: Revelation 20:1-15
Title: The Armies? Preacher: Mark Dever Series: What Will Finally Happen? Passage: Revelation 19:11-21
Title: The Faithful? Preacher: Mark Dever Series: What Will Finally Happen? Passage: Revelation 19:6-10
Title: Nicea: True God from God Preacher: Mark Dever Series: The Testimony of Nicea about Christ Passage: John 1:1-18
Title: Worldliness - Revelation 18:1-19:5 Preacher: Mark Dever Series: What Will Finally Happen? Passage: Revelation 18:1-19:5
Title: The World System? Preacher: Mark Dever Series: What Will Finally Happen? Passage: Revelation 17:1-18
Mark and Jonathan talk about the pastor's personal evangelism and consider how to carefully think about how we should relate to it.Related Resources:Evangelism by Mack StilesHow Do I Get Started in Evangelism? by Mack StilesWhat If I'm Discouraged in My Evangelism? by Isaac AdamsThe Gospel and Personal Evangelism by Mark Dever
In this episode of Pastors Talk, Mark Dever and Jonathan Leeman talk about the good desire some pastors have to write outside of church ministry and how to think about it.Subscribe to our new podcast, A Storm in the Desert, here: https://www.9marks.org/podcast/a-storm-in-the-desert/
In this episode of Pastors Talk, Mark Dever and Jonathan Leeman talk with the President of Poiema (a Spanish publisher) about the state of Christianity in Colombia.
In this episode of Pastors Talk, Caleb Morell interviews Mark Dever about some general practices of his private prayer life.Subscribe to our new podcast, A Storm in the Desert.