Podcasts about Judaizers

Send us a textJustification by faith alone stands at the heart of the Christian gospel, yet it remains one of the most contested doctrines throughout church history. In this thought-provoking examination of Galatians 3:10-12, we explore Paul's passionate defense of salvation through faith apart from works of the law.Paul presents a stark dichotomy that challenges much of contemporary religious thinking: either we're justified by perfect law-keeping or through faith in Christ's finished work. There is no middle ground. When the Judaizers attempted to add circumcision and other legal requirements to faith in Christ, Paul recognized this as a fundamental corruption of the gospel message.The apostle delivers a sobering reality check by quoting Deuteronomy: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things written in the book of the law, to do them." This statement unveils the impossibility of justification through works. The standard isn't partial obedience or "doing our best" – it's absolute perfection from birth to death, something only Christ has achieved.What makes Christ's substitutionary work so beautiful is that He accomplished what was impossible for us. He perfectly fulfilled every requirement of God's law, died as our sacrifice, and was raised for our justification. Through faith, His perfect righteousness becomes ours, credited to our account so we can stand justified before a holy God.The implications are profound. Adding even one work requirement to faith fundamentally alters and nullifies the gospel of grace. Whether it's circumcision, Sabbath observance, baptism, or any religious ritual presented as necessary for salvation, such additions destroy the essence of justification by faith alone.Discover why this doctrine matters not just for salvation but for everyday Christian living. When we grasp that our standing before God depends entirely on Christ's work rather than our own, it transforms our motivation for obedience. Join us as we unpack this essential truth that has shaped Christian theology for two millennia.Support the show

Galatians had embraced the Judaizers' teaching.  Paul explained that that the Law was the equivalent to the elementary teachings of Paganism.  The Law was not a bad thing but showed us the need for a Savior.

Are you ready to be rock solid in your faith like Titus? In a powerful sermon, Pastor Pencil leads us through the inspiring life of Titus, a loyal companion of the Apostle Paul, who exemplified consistency and reliability in his mission to make disciples. Drawing from Paul's mentorship to Titus, Pastor Pencil emphasizes the importance of being multipliers in our faith, echoing the biblical truth found in 2 Timothy 2:2, where we are called to teach others so they can, in turn, teach more. With a compelling connection to the biblical narrative, Pastor Pencil shares how Titus's unwavering commitment prepared him to face the challenges of the early church, including the divisive influences of the Judaizers. The message resonates with our church community, encouraging each member to embrace their unique gifts and to engage in mentorship, fostering a legacy of discipleship. As the sermon concludes, Pastor Pencil urges us to act, asking what steps we need to take to become faithful multipliers—inviting us to step beyond our comfort zones and actively participate in transforming lives for Christ's sake. Let's respond to the call and go where we are needed!

Send us a textWhat happens when well-meaning believers start adding requirements to salvation by faith alone? Paul's letter to the Galatians confronts this dangerous tendency head-on, and his words remain just as relevant today as when they were first penned.The conflict centers on a simple question with profound implications: How are we justified before God? Paul makes his position crystal clear—"By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Yet the Galatian believers were being influenced by Judaizers who insisted that while faith in Christ was good, they still needed to be circumcised to truly be right with God.This struggle between faith alone and faith-plus-works continues to challenge Christians across denominations and traditions. Whether it's baptism, speaking in tongues, Sabbath observance, or dietary restrictions, many believers still feel compelled to add something to Christ's finished work. As one participant in our discussion noted, "When they start adding that 'but,' they don't know the gospel."What makes Paul's argument so powerful is his personal testimony. As a former Pharisee who understood the law better than most, he recognized its inability to justify sinners. The problem wasn't with God's law, which remains holy and good, but with human frailty. No one can perfectly fulfill the law's demands, which is precisely why salvation must come through another means—by grace through faith.When Paul writes, "If I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor," he's highlighting the danger of returning to a system he knows cannot save. Having abandoned law-keeping as the path to righteousness, any attempt to reestablish it would constitute a rejection of Christ's sufficient work.The simplicity of the gospel is both its beauty and its stumbling block. We're justified by faith alone in the finished work of Jesus Christ—nothing more, nothing less. This message strips away human pride and religious performance, leaving us to rest completely in what God has done rather than what we must do. And that, perhaps, is why we find it so difficult to accept without trying to add our own contributions.Have you been complicating the simple message of salvation by grace through faith? What "buts" have you been adding to the gospel? The freedom Christ offers comes when we finally stop trying to earn what has already been freely given.Support the show

Send us a textThe age-old struggle between grace and legalism takes center stage in this deep, theological exploration of what makes a gospel truly "good news." From the very first moments, we dive into the dangerous territory of gospel additions – those requirements some claim are necessary for salvation beyond faith in Christ.Through careful examination of Paul's letter to the Galatians, we unpack how certain religious groups distort the gospel by adding requirements like water baptism, Sabbath observance, dietary restrictions, or temple rituals. The Mormon church serves as a case study, with their requirements for baptism of the dead and abstention from tea and coffee according to their "Word of Wisdom." As one participant powerfully states, "If you add anything to the gospel, it's no longer the gospel."The conversation reaches its theological depth when exploring Paul's confrontation with Judaizers who demanded Gentile converts be circumcised. This historical conflict perfectly mirrors modern debates about what constitutes saving faith. We examine the profound statement in Galatians 2:19 – "For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God" – revealing how the law's purpose was always to expose our need for grace rather than provide a pathway to earn God's favor.Perhaps most moving is the moment a worship leader shares lyrics from the hymn "All Sufficient Merit," bringing several participants to tears with its powerful reminder that Christ's work alone is sufficient. The song encapsulates the entire discussion: "I lay down my garments. Many empty boasts, good works now all corrupted by a sinful host. Dressed in my Lord Jesus, a crimson robe made white."This isn't merely academic theology – it's the beating heart of Christian freedom. Understanding that salvation comes through faith alone liberates believers from the crushing weight of trying to earn God's favor while simultaneously inspiring a heartfelt response of gratitude that manifests in godly living. Join us for this transformative conversation about what makes the gospel truly good news, and discover why anything added to grace is no longer grace.Support the show

Send us a textThe tension between law and grace forms the cornerstone of authentic Christian theology, yet remains one of the most misunderstood concepts in churches today. When Martin Luther rediscovered Paul's radical message in Galatians 2, it sparked the Protestant Reformation and transformed Western Christianity forever.This powerful episode dives deep into why anything added to the gospel fatally corrupts it. Using a compelling analogy of the law as a threatening "mob boss" pursuing those who've received immunity through Christ, we explore how legalism continually attempts to reclaim territory in believers' lives. Paul's strategic introduction of uncircumcised Titus into Jerusalem becomes a masterclass in theological demonstration—proving that salvation requires nothing beyond grace through faith.Against the backdrop of remembering theological titans like John MacArthur and RC Sproul, we examine how their unwavering commitment to grace-centered theology mirrors Paul's refusal to compromise with the Judaizers. The episode highlights Paul's ingenious rhetorical strategy: bringing living proof (Titus) before the apostles to silence those who insisted circumcision was necessary for salvation.The implications reach far beyond ancient theological disputes. Today's Christians face similar pressures to add requirements to salvation—whether baptism, speaking in tongues, political alignment, or adherence to church traditions. This exploration of Galatians 2 provides clarity on distinguishing between salvation's foundation (grace alone through faith alone) and the Christian's response to that salvation.What core beliefs form your understanding of salvation? Have you unconsciously added requirements to what Christ has already accomplished? Join us for this transformative journey through scripture's clearest defense of salvation by grace alone.Support the show

Send us a textThe battle for the purity of the gospel message has raged since the earliest days of Christianity. In this deep dive into Galatians chapter 1, we explore Paul's passionate defense of the unadulterated gospel of grace against those who would add requirements to it.When Paul writes that he "marvels" at how quickly the Galatian believers were turning to a different gospel, he's expressing genuine shock and dismay. The Judaizers—early Jewish Christians who insisted Gentile converts needed to follow the Law of Moses—were effectively undermining the very foundation of salvation by grace. This episode unpacks Paul's powerful assertion that "the gospel plus anything, or the gospel minus any part of it, suddenly is no longer the gospel."We examine why Paul's language is so strong when he pronounces that anyone preaching a modified gospel should be "accursed"—even if that person were Paul himself or an angel from heaven. This isn't mere rhetorical excess but reflects the eternal stakes involved when the message of salvation is corrupted.The discussion tackles contemporary applications as well. Many religious groups today—from Catholicism to Mormonism to various denominations—hold to aspects of the gospel while adding requirements that transform it into "another gospel." We clarify the role of baptism as an important symbol of our faith that doesn't contribute to salvation itself, addressing the persistent human tendency to want to add something to Christ's finished work.Particularly striking is Paul's rhetorical question: "Do I now persuade men or God?" His concern wasn't winning human approval but faithfully representing God's truth—a challenging reminder for Christians today who might be tempted to soften the gospel's edges to make it more palatable.Whether you're struggling with legalism, curious about what makes the true gospel distinct, or simply wanting to deepen your understanding of Galatians, this episode offers clear, biblical teaching on why grace alone is the foundation of authentic Christian faith.Support the show

“Further, my brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh. For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— though I myself have reasons for such confidence" (Philippians 3:1-4a). Having spent some time commending partners in the gospel to the Philippian church, Paul now turns to another subject somewhat abruptly, and his tone changes with it. He has described those who are exemplary models for the community, but he now does the opposite, warning against those he calls “dogs, evildoers, mutilators of the flesh.” This is very strong language coming from a letter which, up to this point, has been full of joy and encouragement even in the midst of suffering.  Paul's warning here might be familiar to you if you've read some of his other writings. In his letter to the Galatian church, Paul warns against a group of people that scholars of Paul's letters call “Judaizers.” These were people who would follow along the path of Paul's missionary journeys, teaching that groups of Gentile converts (like the church in Philippi) had to be circumcised in order to join Jewish Christ-followers as a community of faith. In Galatians, Paul writes a pretty strongly worded letter to those tempted to heed the false teaching of this group of people, rather than recognizing and teaching that the grace of Christ meant that to be included in the family of God no longer required the physical symbol of circumcision. To preach the opposite, Paul said, was to “pervert the gospel of Christ” (Gal. 1:7). It is these teachers and their message that most scholars believe is being addressed in today's verses as well. For the believers in Philippi, and for all believers, the thing which unites them is not a sign in the flesh like circumcision, but a unity achieved by God's presence among them and working through them by the Holy Spirit.  The exhortations that Paul gives the Philippian church just before and after his warning against false teachers begins to give us an indicator of the practices Paul encourages the community to pursue which will shape them to be resilient to false teaching. He encourages them both to “rejoice in the Lord” (v. 1) and “boast in Jesus Christ” (v. 3). In essence, he's encouraging them to worship and to testify to the truth of who God has revealed himself to be in Christ.  These are practices that believers like us today can also trust to help us as we encounter false teachings, whether those that come from within the church or outside of it. We don't necessarily always think of worship as an antidote to false teaching. We may first think of doctrinal debate or apologetics as the right approach. Perhaps we wonder, or have heard others wonder, why regular worship practices, including attendance at weekly services, are important. In this passage, Paul indicates that communal practices of rejoicing and testifying about who Christ is–things the church does weekly in Christian worship–orient believers repeatedly to what is true and what is not. Being saturated in the word, active in praise and worship, and joined with a community of faith in fellowship–these provide us with the knowledge, the posture, and the accountability structures of community to help shape our minds and our hearts for discernment. And most importantly, of course, worship fosters relationship with God, and in so doing, makes it only natural that we would rejoice. So as you journey on, go with the blessing of God: May the peace of the Lord Christ go with you: wherever he may send you. May he guide you through the wilderness: protect you through the storm. May he bring you home rejoicing; at the wonders he has shown you. May he bring you home rejoicing once again into our doors.  

What if the gospel you believe isn't from God—but from man?Most people never ask that question. They assume their version of Christianity is true, sincere, and safe. But in Galatians 1, Paul drops a terrifying warning: it's possible to think you're following Jesus… and actually be under a curse.This chapter uncovers the deadly difference between man-centered religion and the God-given gospel. The Judaizers added just a little tradition to the message—and that was enough to corrupt the entire thing. Today, many do the same.So, how do you know if you're following a gospel that pleases men… or one that pleases God?✅ Discover the signs of a false gospel✅ Learn how Paul proved his message came directly from Jesus✅ See why approval-seeking Christians risk losing everything✅ Unmask the spiritual danger of “truth + tradition” ChristianityIf you care about your soul and the souls of others, this message from Galatians 1 is one you can't afford to miss.

Judaizers have been trying to blur the line between their religion and Christianity for thousands of years but it wasn't until the 19th century that they found a 'magic word' that would be instrumental in deceiving millions of Christians. In today's episode we look at the history, timeline and etymology of the word 'Judeo-Christian' and how it was used to drag America into WWII and now into more 'forever wars' in the Mideast.To understand how and why Western governments have been hijacked and are teetering on collapse look no farther than this weaponized word and the well-financed marketing efforts behind it.Notes:Joseph Wolffhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_WolffFather Charles Coughlinhttps://www.ssa.gov/history/cough.htmlJudeo-Christianhttps://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Judeo-ChristianConversoshttps://www.museodelprado.es/en/whats-on/exhibition/the-lost-mirror-jews-and-conversos-in-medieval/ac516c08-08d9-42fb-a7fd-1cba121e9946The first Christian bible of 144 A.D.https://www.theveryfirstbible.org/First-Bible-App.htmlYahweh Derangement Syndrome: Deconstructing The Devil's Greatest Trick

Galatians 1: Gospel Clarity, Conditional Love, and Personal Theology In this episode of the Exploring More Podcast, Michael Thompson and SJ Jennings continue their series through the book of Galatians, focusing on Paul's bold defense of his apostleship and the uncompromising unity of the gospel. Writing with passion and urgency, Paul confronts distortions introduced by the Judaizers—reminding the Galatians that his commission comes not from man, but from Jesus Christ Himself. The conversation moves from historical context to personal reflection, as Michael and SJ examine how cultural expectations, church upbringing, and performance-based faith can cloud our understanding of grace. They explore how many believers, knowingly or not, come to believe that love must be earned—when in fact, the gospel declares it's freely given. This episode also introduces Zoweh's Base Camp, a new online resource hub offering devotionals, podcasts, and discussion guides to support deeper connection with God and others. Whether you're exploring Galatians in a group or on your own, this resource is a companion for your healing and restoration journey. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own personal theology and motivations: What's driving your faith—grace or performance? What version of love did your story teach you to believe? We hope you enjoy this episode and invite you to connect with us!

Sunday, 15 June 2025   He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. Matthew 10:39   “The ‘having found his soul,' he will lose it, and the ‘having lost his soul' because of Me, he will find it” (CG).   In the previous verse, Jesus noted that he who did not take his cross and follow after Him was not worthy of Him. Now, to build upon that, He says, “The ‘having found his soul,' he will lose it.”   The words at first seem paradoxical. However, Jesus is using the thought of the psuché, the soul, in two ways at the same time. The word itself was introduced in Matthew 2:20. It is derived from psucho, breath. The meaning is based on the context, and it can mean the breath of one's life, the seat of affection, the self, a human person, or an individual. The word corresponds to the Hebrew word nephesh.   In the case of Jesus' words, He indicates that a person who has found his soul, meaning his earthly self, will wind up losing his soul, meaning his eternal self. Finding one's earthly self involves looking after oneself, getting the best out of life, advancing in one's career, or whatever motivates a person to ingratiate his existence apart from God's guiding hand.   The problem with this type of life is two-fold. The first and main consideration is that it leaves God, the Creator, out of the picture. It ignores man's responsibilities to Him and sets one's course for self-directed aims. The second problem with this is obvious to all and yet it is ignored most of the time. Man is destined to die.   As this is so, all self-directed advances and aims have an end because the self has an end. Jesus says elsewhere –   “For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?” Matthew 16:26   This is Jesus' intent. The person finds his soul, the epitome of self-satisfaction and aggrandizement, maybe even living to the point of hedonism, but because he has left God out of the equation, he winds up losing his soul. On the other hand, Jesus next says, “and the ‘having lost his soul' because of Me, he will find it.”   The “because of Me” is the key point of His words. Many scholars and philosophers have stated words similar in thought to Jesus' words –   Plato said, “O my friend! I want you to see that the noble and the good may possibly be something different from saving and being saved, and that he who is truly a man ought not to care about living a certain time: he knows, as women say, that we must all die, and therefore he is not fond of life; he leaves all that with God, and considers in what way he can best spend his appointed term” (“Gorgias,” 512). (via Vincent's Word Studies).   Euripides said, “Who knows if life be not death, and death life.” (via Vincent's Word Studies).   The Pulpit Commentary notes, “In Talm. Bab., ‘Tamid,' 32a, Alexander the Great asks ‘the elders of the south' ten questions, among them, ‘What shall a man do that he may live?' They answer, ‘Let him put himself to death.' ‘What shall a man do that he may die?' ‘Let him make himself alive.'”   Such sayings are found in cultures around the world, and many live lifestyles that bear this concept, such as those living as monks or in asceticism, stoicism, etc. The problem with such lives is that such people are still set to die. Without the “because of Me” of Jesus' words, their end is the same as the others. The main difference between them and those in the first half of Jesus' words is that those in the first category probably had a lot more fun in the process.   Jesus is telling His disciples that the pursuit of God in Christ is the key to finding one's soul, meaning his eternal existence in the presence of God.   Life application: It is common for Christians to use Jesus' words here and in similar passages to give up various earthly delights, to reject wealth, to live in hovels when they could live in a mansion, etc.   Some, such as the Judaizers and Hebrew Roots Movement adherents, live for self while claiming they are living for God. They do this by living by precepts of the Law of Moses instead of living in Christ. Their religion is self-directed because it has rejected the fulfillment of the law by Jesus.   Many such paths of existence in Christianity are unbiblical. For example, concerning wealth, Paul says –   “Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. 18 Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, 19 storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.” 1 Timothy 6:17-19   Paul did not say that rich people need to give up their wealth. He instructs them how to use it in a godly manner. People who are attempting to “find life” since the completed work of Jesus need to simply believe in the full, final, finished, and forever work of Christ. That is how one finds his life. Trust. Believing the gospel and trusting God that it is true by faith is how one finds life.   Jesus' words in this verse in Matthew have a context. Our instructions for finding life now, because of His completed work, have a new context. Don't stop part of the way in the redemption story. When you get to the cross and resurrection, you have come to the point where God has brought you for life. Find life by finding the risen Savior and trusting in Him.   Heavenly Father, our lives are short, and we often focus way too much on making the best of our days without considering You in the process. Forgive us for this. Help us to include You in our every thought and action. Whether we are rich or poor, healthy or sick, single or married, or in any other way, may our priority be to include You in our lives and interactions! Amen.  

This Reformed Rookie podcast episode delves into Titus 1:7-16, exploring the qualifications for elders and the challenges faced by Titus in Crete. The discussion centers on Epimenides' quote about Cretans being liars, and how this reflects the cultural context Titus faced. Pastor Anthony Uvenio analyzes the nature of sharp rebuke as commanded by Paul, contrasting it with a gentle approach. He differentiates between essential doctrines and adiaphora (indifferent matters), emphasizing the importance of unity in essentials and charity in all things. The episode also touches upon the dangers of legalism, the motivations of false teachers, and the unwavering stance of Martin Luther on the authority of Scripture, concluding with a prayer.#titus1 #Epimenides #creation #falseteachers #sounddoctrine #rebuke #legalism #gospel #churchleadership #biblicalstudies 00:08:32 - Church Order in Crete03:51 - God's Word & Unbelievers07:34 - Cretans: Negative Traits10:43 - Cretans, Judaizers, Salvation14:20 - Cretans & False Teachers17:48 - Legalism, Licentiousness21:15 - Public Rebuke & Faith24:51 - Reproving & False Motives28:45 - Rebuking False Teachers32:26 - Silencing False Teachers36:51 - Faith & Avoiding Heresy40:53 - Scripture Study & LutherPodcast: www.ReformedRookie.comPodcast: https://anchor.fm/reformedrookieFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheReformedRookie Twitter: https://twitter.com/NYapologistSemper Reformanda!

Today, this episode is all about the local church at Antioch in the early days. Do you remember some of the particulars that Dr. Luke and the Apostle Paul documented about that extraordinary church? Well, for two thousand years, Antioch has been an amazing model for local churches desiring high impact for God's mission. Join Kevin as we walk through the nine key lessons for our churches that we can glean from the church at Antioch! // Download this episode's Application & Action questions and PDF transcript at whitestone.org.

This week Paster Kevin Pinkerton continues a Be Free - Galatians. From Chapter 2, Kevin teaches about the unchanging gospel. Paul confronts hypocrisy by rebuking Peter for allowing Judaizers add to the gospel. We are Justified with faith in Jesus and trust in him alone for salvation.

"But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation." (Galatians 6:14-15) Paul refused to boast like the Judaizers. His boasting was better, because it placed all the focus on Christ.

Send us a textDownload study notes for this chapter.Download study notes for this entire book.**********Scriptures taken from the Holy Bible, New International Version ®, NIV ® Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc. Used with permission. All rights reserved worldwide.The “NIV”, “New International Version”, “Biblica”, “International Bible Society” and the Biblica Logo are trademarks registered in the United States Patent and Trademark Office by Biblica, Inc.  Used with permission.BIBLICA, THE INTERNATIONAL BIBLE SOCIETY, provides God's Word to people through Bible translation & Bible publishing, and Bible engagement in Africa, Asia Pacific, Europe, Latin America, the Middle East, and North America. Through its worldwide reach, Biblica engages people with God's Word so that their lives are transformed through a relationship with Jesus Christ.Support the show

Paul traveled to Jerusalem from Antioch with Barnabas and Titus, a Gentile believer. Paul resisted the false teaching of the Judaizers that Gentile believers had to be circumcised to be saved. This sermon on Galatians 2:1-10 was preached by Pastor Philip Thomas at New Life Fellowship Church, Concord, NC, on Sunday, May 18, 2025. Subscribe, Like, and Share the Facebook page and YouTube channel to spread the word about this content and the church.

There is power in the word of God, you have been given authority when you are equipped with the word of God, the Bible wasn't just a book of information - it is God's voice still speaking to us today. Just look at how God emphasizes the importance of knowing, studying and living by His word.Please join us as Pastor Donnie teaches from Philippians chapter 3 on how the apostle Paul rebuked Judaizers and emphasized the fact that Jesus is enough and nothing compares to living for Him!

Our world revolves around “the performance plan.” If we work hard enough, perform well enough, and impress the powers that be sufficiently enough...we'll make the cut. It's not surprising, then, that “the performance plan” shows up in the realm of religion as well. Religion could be defined as: a system of beliefs, rituals, and behaviors by which a person can be made right with God. It is an attempt to make the ultimate cut.This “performance plan” approach is what Paul is warning about in Philippians 3. “Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh.For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh…” (vs.2-3)In order to understand what Paul is talking about, we have to go back to the story of Abraham found in Genesis 17. There God makes a covenant with Abraham. In essence, “I will be your God and you and the descendants I give you will be my people.” Then God chose circumcision as the outward sign of this covenant. Circumcision became the symbol of man's need to be cleansed from sin at the most basic point of his identity. But from the very beginning, this outward act was secondary to something of far greater importance: an inward belief. In Genesis 15:6 we read that “Abram believed the Lord, and He credited it to him as righteousness.” Faith came first – then the symbolic action.  The problem is that all too quickly the Jewish people came to believe that to get right with God all a man had to do was to be circumcised, bypassing the heart change altogether.But making the cut and getting on God's team has never been a matter of performance. It is a matter of turning to Him in faith, confessing your sinfulness and receiving His forgiveness.  In the N.T. this became clearer. Jesus came to replace the old system, giving His life to offer access to not only God's team but to God's very family. And He offered that to one and all as a free gift received by faith.Enter the Apostle Paul – or Saul as he was formerly known. He had not only been taught this misunderstood performance plan, he had become its greatest proponent.  In fact, he was so committed to it that he had sought to snuff out the Jesus movement.   And then one day, he encountered Jesus who offered Him grace, forgiving him and freeing him from the need to perform. Paul never got over that and devoted the rest of his life to sharing this good news.He would go from town to town, planting communities of Jesus-followers. After getting these churches grounded, Paul would head off to a new city to continue spreading the gospel. Now, many of these new believers were Gentiles – uncircumcised non-Jews. And after Paul left, often a group of people called “Judaizers” would come in behind him and tell these young non-Jewish believers that in order to truly be saved, they had to become Jews. More specifically, they had to be circumcised. In other words, faith alone wasn't enough. They had to jump through the hoops of the performance plan. When Paul heard about this, he came unglued! This is what he was confronting in Phil. 3:2. He says, “Do you want to compare performance? My pedigree, degrees, and zeal are second to none. Yet all of that is utter garbage because it didn't deal with my heart. Only Jesus can do that.”Are you still depending on the performance plan to be made right with God? Text: Philippians 3:2-9 Originally recorded on October 26, 2008, at Fellowship Missionary Church, Fort Wayne, IN

Pastor Sean breaks this passage down looking at... 1. The Story 2. The Argument 3. The Application. Paul corrects what many were teaching; that we believe, then we obey and are accepted. Using the story from Genesis 14-17; he reminds them that Jesus taught that we believe in faith, are accepted by God through Christ, and we obey as a result.  If we look to anything other than Jesus for our acceptance, we are just like the Judaizers in Galatia! Are we trusting in Jesus?

A Sermon for the Fourth Sunday in Lent Galatians 4:21-31 by the Rev'd Dr. Matthew Colvin Our epistle lesson this morning comes from Galatians 4. I know that Pastor Bill preached on it just recently, but I would like to look at it too, from a different angle. It is one of the most controversial chapters in the NT, both for its view of Judaism and for its hermeneutical maneuvers. Paul is concerned for Christians in Galatia. The Judaizers were taunting Gentile Christians with the manifest visible superiority of Judaism: its splendid temple; its priesthood; its Torah; all the society's esteem and honor. And against this, what did Christians have to show? They were hiding for fear of the Jews; they were subjected to persecution and arrest; they had been kicked out of the synagogue and subjected to the ban, excommunication. Above all, there was the disgrace of worshipping a criminal who had been killed by the most shameful sort of execution, crucifixion by the Romans. All this was exploited by Paul's enemies in Galatia, the Judaizers or the circumcision party. Their strategy was to exalt themselves by trying to get the Gentiles to envy them - “They zealously court you, but for no good; yes, they want to exclude you, that you may be zealous for them.” – The verb zeloō means both to be zealous and to be jealous. Paul's enemies are behaving like spiteful middle school girls — not like the righteous women of this church, but like the ones I knew when I was in school — trying to exclude a hated rival by social shunning, in order to magnify their own status. To stop them and shut them down, Paul needs to do more than just answer their case logically. He also needs to undermine their ethos; he needs to subvert the system of value that makes their case so plausible at first glance. They are counting on Paul's readers sharing their value system. Paul wants to make sure his readers do not share it. It is a task that he undertakes in many of his letters. In Romans he addresses the Jews as those who “rest on the law, and make your boast in God, and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law, and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law.” He is setting forth the Jewish system of value, the grounds of their boasting. And it was a very good grounds for boasting. The longest book in the Bible, Psalm 119, is one continuing paean of praise to the Law, the Torah. It is full of statements like, “I love thy commandments above gold and precious stones” and “The law of thy mouth is dearer unto me than thousands of gold and silver.” But Paul rips this point of boasting away by asking, “Yes, the Law is wonderful — but do you actually obey it?” In Philippians 3, Paul gathers together all the things that he could have been proud of as a Jew: “If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;” That stuff that the Jews think is so valuable? Their circumcision, their membership in one of the two faithful tribes (Benjamin and Judah)? Their zeal, their lawkeeping? It's all worthless. In fact, it's so worthless that I threw it all away. I have something of real value that none of that stuff can give you. In the book of Hebrews, Paul or someone from his circles who thought an awful lot like him has the difficult task of undermining Jewish boasting about the Temple, the priesthood, and the sacrifices — a task that might seem impossible, since these things were instituted by God and everybody knew it. The temple was imposing, gleaming with gold. Paul calls it a “tent”, the sort of makeshift, flimsy structure that you go camping in, and you lie down in it, and there's nothing but a thin layer of cloth between you and the outside, and if it's too windy, the thing is in danger of collapsing; and anyway, it's that way because you're going to take it down and pack it up anyway. That's what he thinks of your fancy temple. Besides, the real temple is in heaven. Your tent is made by human hands; the only Temple worthy of the name is made by God. The priests' ministry was observable; they were dressed in robes; everyone could see their work, and that they had been instituted by God. Paul says, “They keep on dying, which is proof that their work isn't much good. And they have to offer sacrifices for their own sins, not just the people's.” The sacrifices were there for all to see: they had been commanded by God himself. The blood of the sacrifices flowed continually at the temple, on a daily basis. Paul says, “See how they have to do it over and over again? That's because it doesn't really work. They need Jesus. That's the only sacrifice that works, and that's why Jesus only needed to be sacrificed once.” Yes, Paul is a genius at overthrowing his opponents' strongest arguments. He loves to take their most powerful evidence and use it against them. He is a master of rhetorical jujitsu, throwing his opponents to the mat by using the momentum and force of their own attacks. He is like Elijah in the contest with the prophets of Baal, one man against 450, “And he put the wood in order, cut the bull in pieces, and laid it on the wood, and said, “Fill four waterpots with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice and on the wood.” Then he said, “Do it a second time,” and they did it a second time; and he said, “Do it a third time,” and they did it a third time. So the water ran all around the altar; and he also filled the trench with water.” In Galatians 4, it is a terribly difficult rhetorical task that Paul faces: his opponents appear to have the Torah, the OT, on their side. It does, after all, command circumcision; it does prohibit the eating of unclean foods; it does tell the stories of Ishmael, Moab, and Ben-Ammi, the ancestors of the rival nations surrounding Israel, all of whom are deprecated as the offspring of incest, slave marriage, or concubinage. These stories account for the origins of the Gentiles around Israel. Israel itself, however, was descended from Isaac, the legitimate son and heir of Abraham. These stories underscore the chosenness of Israel, and the fact that these other nations were not chosen. “Jacob have I loved, and Esau have I hated” was not just a statement about two sons. It was a statement about two nations: the Edomites and Israel. It says that Israel is the covenant people that God loves, and Edom is not. So it is Paul's opponents, not Paul, who have the easier case to make here: Jewish people are (most of them) descended from Jacob (Israel) and Gentiles are not. And they might have made this case most plainly from the story of Isaac, Abraham's son miraculously conceived by the power of God in Abraham's old age. This is strong rhetorical ground for the circumcision advocates in Galatia. Circumcision is commanded in the Torah for God's people. It is breathtakingly audacious for Paul to argue that a proper understanding of the Torah will lead you to the conclusion that circumcision doesn't matter. Paul calls the Torah a yoke of bondage. I'm not sure we appreciate how bold a move this is. The exodus was Israel's independence day. It's when they came out of slavery in Egypt and became a free nation. Paul says that the circumcizers advocating Torah-obedience in Galatia are like those who wanted to go back to Egypt. It would be like an American saying that the Declaration of Independence is the document in American history that made everyone slaves. But that is what Paul says about the Torah, given on Mount Sinai: that covenant has led to the present state of affairs: Jerusalem that now is, and is in bondage with her children. Now, we know from elsewhere in Paul's letters, especially Romans, that he considered the Law a good gift of God and the reason why the Law was now leading to slavery was because Israel was using it wrongly, not because the Law was bad. The slavery results from Israel's sinfulness, not something wrong with the Law. But here, he doesn't go into that, because he is focused not on the Law as it was given by God, but on the Law as it was used rhetorically by his opponents. You have heard the expression, “He is wrapping himself in the flag”? That is what the Judaizers in Galatia are doing with the Torah: using it as a uniform to distinguish true, Jewish Christians from second-rate, Gentile Christians. And Paul says: You think that you look cool with your bling; but it's really chains to keep you enslaved. Above all, Paul takes the bull by the horns and uses an audacious maneuver to deal with the Judaizers' most powerful weapon: the taunt of illegitimacy. That is the point of the Ishmael story as used by Jews: the Ishmaelites, the Arabs, are illegitimate offspring of Abraham, just as the Moabites and Ammonites were stigmatized as the offspring of Lot's daughters after the destruction of Sodom. Only Jews were the children of Isaac; they had been called into existence by the power of YHWH himself. They were not the product of an ill-conceived attempt at surrogate pregnancy, and with a slave wife. Be aware that the Judaizers have centuries and centuries of social and legal precedent for their view. That line that Paul quotes from Sarah — “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman” — that was a line that Paul's opponents loved to quote. When Sarah said it to Abraham, she wasn't just being mean. The lawcodes of Ur-Nammu and Lipit-Ishtar, from around the same time as Abraham, contained rules about exactly this sort of situation, and they are formulated with exactly the same sort of phrasing: “If a man has a wife a free woman who has born children to him, and he takes a slave wife and she also bears children to him, the children of the slave wife shall not share in the inheritance with the children of the free wife.” Sarah is saying, “Husband, you know the law from when we lived in Ur. This is what we have to do.” And the heretics in Galatia were taking up this two-thousand year tradition of legal and social stigma against children of slavery, and applying it to Gentile Christians. It's a powerful tool of shaming and social marginalization, and it is based on a very foundational text of the covenant: the story of the birth of Isaac. Both the Judaizers and their Galatian Gentile victims believed this text was the word of God. Both believed that the Jews were descendants of Isaac. Paul knows all this. He has chosen to fight them on their strongest ground; he gives them home field advantage. He pours water so that it fills up the trench. And then he incinerates their whole argument like Elijah. The stigma of illegitimacy? He turns it back on the Judaizers. They are the bastards now, the “children of the flesh”; they are “in bondage” with their slave-mother. The Gentile Galatian Christians? They are “children of the promise.” And just as it was back then, the child of the slave woman is persecuting the child of the promise. The two sons are marked not by their circumcised or uncircumcised status but by the slave/free polarity that distinguishes their mothers. Paul has to reach a little bit here. The LXX Greek translation that Paul used here doesn't actually say, “persecuting”. What the LXX says is that Sarah “saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian who had been born to Abraham playing with her son Isaac (paizonta meta Isaac tou huiou autes).” That's the most straightforward way to take it. But the word “playing” can also mean “mocking”. And that's probably how Paul took it. And then he magnifies it into the sibling rivalry from hell by glossing “mocking” as “persecuting”. Where did he get this from? It is transferred from the situation between the Judaizers and the Gentile Christians in Galatia. By casting the rivalry as a conflict between the flesh and the promise, Paul undercuts the Judaizers' use of the Torah. That is why he says, “These are two covenants” — the boldest piece of clever interpretation in the Bible. It is all part of his rhetorical strategy concerning the Torah that he has laid in the previous chapter, Galatians 3. The two covenants are NOT the Old and the New. They are the Torah covenant and the covenant with Abraham (which turns out to find its fulfillment in Christ). And the covenant with Abraham is more original, more foundational, more important, more primary. The law was added 430 years later. The Torah was a stop-gap measure to keep things under control until the fulfillment of the covenant with Abraham. And for Paul, Gentile Christians are that fulfillment: “in you, all the nations — the ethnê — shall be blessed.” This aligns the Gentile Christians with the whole purpose of the Covenant with Abraham, and means that Paul can cast them as the true children of the promise. They are citizens of the only Jerusalem that counts, the “Jerusalem above”. And by citing the line of Sarah, “cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman”, Paul makes clear what the stakes are here: the Judaizers and those who trust in the Torah to be their badge of membership in the covenant are not merely mistaken. They are Ishmaels and they will not inherit. They will be cast out. The Gentile Christians — and faithful Jewish Christians who did not pressure them to get circumcized — will be counted as true members of the covenant with Abraham, and the Judaizing circumcision-pushers will not. Who are the bastards now? Paul revels in what God has done. It is perfectly in accordance with his way of working: "He catches the wise in their own craftiness, and the counsel of the cunning is brought to a quick end.” (Job 5). The Judaizers have fallen into the pit that they have dug: their taunts of illegitimacy rebound on their own heads; the glory of the title of “true children of Abraham” is wrapped around the Gentile believers whom they had stigmatized. Paul's jujitsu victory is complete and total, because it is the victory of Christ, who led captivity captive and triumphed by being crucified. In the end, Paul's fierce warfare over the Galatians has to do with vindicating the honor of Christ, with proving that He has really accomplished all that Paul says he has; with showing that the covenant with Abraham is truly fulfilled in Jesus, because he is the yes and amen. To go back to the Torah is to turn the clock back and engage in historical reenactment; to live a life of live-action-role-playing instead of reality. It is a costly and foolish attempt to gain privilege and honor by denying the completeness and finality of Jesus' work, and attempting to supplement it with another identity in terms of the Torah. The true Exodus is via Christ, not via the Torah. That is part of the meaning of our gospel lesson this morning from John 6. Here the true bread from heaven, Jesus, works a miraculous feeding like the manna of old. But he does it not in order to cause the crowd to envy his disciples; he has no desire for his followers to act like the Judaizers, zealous courting others to provoke them envy. No, his disciples are to be the means by which the bread of life is given to the multitudes — and the two small fish, symbol of Gentiles and of fishing for men, of the fulfillment of Jeremiah 16:16: “Behold, I am sending for many fishers, declares the Lord, and they shall catch them.” In the end, the nations are to be blessed through the disobedience of Israel. Our time is short, so I will not try to prove this exhaustively, but I want you to see the pattern: Joseph's brothers disobey and sell him into slavery, so that he is carried off to a Gentile land, Egypt, and becomes assimilated to Egyptian ways. But God works it all out so that Joseph's imprisonment in an Egyptian prison works out for the salvation of Joseph's brothers and all Egypt, “to save many alive.” When Jesus touches dead bodies, a woman with a 12 year flow of bleeding that made her unclean, or a leper, what happens? The usual laws of uncleanness work backward: rather than becoming unclean, Jesus makes these people clean. That is the way God has designed the exile of Israel to work: rather than the exiled members of Israel becoming lost and destroyed, they have mingled with the nations and thereby brought it about that in order to keep His promises to Israel, God will save the Gentiles as well. As a result, “In Abraham's seed, all the nations shall be blessed.” Isn't it funny how Satan's schemes always backfire? He is truly the Wile E. Coyote of the Bible. He will have his church be Israel for the sake of the world; thus we are to be true heirs of Abraham, fulfilling the purpose for which He was called. Amen.

In today's episode, Kelsi chats with theologian and author R.L. Solberg about his apologetic ministry, which focuses on providing a defense of historical and scriptural Christianity in response to Torahism or the Hebrew Roots movement. Robert lays out some of the issues with Torahism before talking about his newest book, The Law, the Christ, and the Promise: A Verse-by-Verse Apologetics Bible Study through Galatians. One primary goal of the book is to show how Paul's response to the Judaizers in his day still relates to the way we combat legalism in ours. The Law, the Christ, and the Promise is now available for preorder. R. L. Solberg is an author, apologist, and professor of theology based in Nashville, TN. He runs an apologetics/teaching ministry called Defending the Biblical Roots of Christianity and is known for communicating on complex topics with clarity and grace. Show Notes:⁠Support 1517⁠⁠1517 Podcasts⁠⁠The 1517 Podcast Network on Apple Podcasts⁠⁠1517 on Youtube⁠More from Kelsi: ⁠Kelsi Klembara⁠ ⁠Follow Kelsi on Instagram⁠ ⁠Follow Kelsi on Twitter⁠ ⁠Kelsi's Newsletter⁠ Subscribe to the Show: ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠ ⁠Spotify⁠ ⁠Youtube⁠More from R.L. Solberg:Preorder The Law, the Christ, the PromiseThe Biblical Roots YoutubeThe Biblical Roots WebsiteRobert's BlogFollow Robert on Instagram

Friday, 7 March 2025   And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 8:11   “And I say to you that many from east and west, they will arrive, and they will recline with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens” (CG).   In the previous verse, Jesus noted that He had not found such faith as that of the centurion even in Israel. He continues His statement with, “And I say to you that many from east and west, they will arrive.”   The Greek word translated as east has already been seen in Matthew 2. However, the word translated as west, dusmé, is first found here. It is derived from dunó, to sink or set. It is generally associated with the setting of the heavenly bodies as if they are sinking into the sea when they reach the western horizon.   A second new word is hékó, to arrive. Most translations say “come,” but this is not necessarily the intent. To come signifies the action of motion. This word signifies the action of arriving, as in being present. It is the termination point of the coming.   As such, it isn't as if people will come from time to time from the east and the west. Rather, they will come from those locations to arrive at a new location, being present at a particular time. There is a sense of finality in this that will exclude those who do not arrive at the set location at that time.   Jesus is expressing a large, even uncountable number by saying this. As there really is no east or west, just a direction in which one will continuously travel, it indicates that wherever people are, there will be those included in His words. Understanding that, He continues with, “and they will recline with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob.”   To recline signifies having a meal. At the time, tables were low and attendees would sit on the floor, reclining on one another or on pillows designed for the purpose. At such tables, meals would be served, and it would be considered, as it is today, a time of fellowship and enjoyment.   Noting that it would be with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, is a way of ensuring the people understood that there was a future when the righteous would be raised according to the Messianic promises and that there would be a feast at the gathering where all the righteous would fellowship together in the presence of God.   The inclusion of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is further given to ensure that it was understood that those gathered were saved believers, meaning deemed righteous before God. It was taken as an axiom by the people that it was so. As such, it would be the fulfillment of the promises to those men as given by the Lord concerning the restoration of all things and the coming of the promised kingdom, which is “in the kingdom of the heavens.”   The context of Jesus' words is that they are stated in connection with the demonstration of faith by the centurion. He was not of Israel, he was not under the law of Moses, and there is not an ounce of evidence to suggest that he had taken up the religion of the people of Israel.   It is true that Luke 7 says that he loved the nation and built them a synagogue, but it would be a glaring oversight not to say he was a proselyte or had converted to Judaism if it was so. Any attempt to say he was a proselyte must be forced into the text based on presuppositions.   Further, Jesus skips over all of those who were under the law, like David, Daniel, and John the Baptist. Rather, He goes back to those who lived prior to the time of the law. Theirs was a walk of faith in the Lord and His promises. It was not a time of law observance.   Thus, the words of Jesus are clear. A time is prophesied when those of faith will be gathered together in the presence of God to dine and fellowship in the place that God has prepared for His people.   Life application: Context is king, and the context of Jesus' words, as spoken to the people in this passage, is that Gentiles will be included in what God has promised Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And not only is it so, but it will be a number so large, the Bible would describe it as innumerable or with some other superlative. Instead of this, though, He simply points to the two undetermined directions of east and west to make His point.   There is a south, and there is a north, but there is actually no set east or west. In this statement by Jesus, there is a complete refutation of the doctrine of the Judaizers who are today's Hebrew Roots adherents. Jesus' words identify them as the problem that needs to be resolved. Law and works can do nothing to bring one near to God. Rather, it is by faith alone through grace alone that this is brought about.   “Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, ‘In you all the nations shall be blessed.' 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.” Galatians 3:5-9   Lord God, thank You for justification by grace through faith. Thank You that works are excluded. Otherwise, how could we ever know when we had sufficiently worked our way up the ladder and back to You! Rather, Jesus has done it all. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! Thank You for our precious Lord Jesus. Amen.

Pastor James Kaddis will be in Galatians chapter three. We've been learning recently that we're made right with God by faith in what Jesus did at the cross on our behalf. And not by the keeping of the law. Put another way, salvation is a gift to receive not achieve. The Judaizers in the region of Galatia, were preaching something far different. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/1459/29

Join Crystal as she continues our study of Galatians. Paul presses on to contradict the false teachings of the Judaizers who were trying to add works to salvation by grace. We are to stand firm in the liberty we have in Christ--we have been freed from the law! However, that liberty is not a license to sin or to continue to live however we please. Warren Wiersbe said, “Somewhere between license and legalism is true Christian liberty.”So the question becomes...How do we stay in the lane of Christian Liberty and avoid the ditches of license and legalism?Listen as Crystal shares the answer from Galatians chapter five. You can find Crystal @authorcrystalratcliff on Facebook and Instagram or on her website. Support the showConnect with the ladies of Her Portion, HERE!

Tune into episode 6 of our 9 part series with Andrew Isker (@BonifaceOption).Watch the whole series now by becoming a member at https://patreon.com/rightresponseministries

Wednesday, 12 February 2025   Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. Matthew 7:17   “Thus, every good tree, it produces good fruit. And the rotten tree, it produces evil fruit” (CG).   In the previous verse, Jesus noted that people will be known by their fruits. He then asked if grapes could come from thorns or thistles from figs. The answer is obviously not. He next says to His disciples, “Thus, every good tree, it produces good fruit.”   To maintain the analogy from the previous verse, this must be referring to type. He just contrasted grapes and thorns as well as thistles and figs. Not all grape vines will produce good grapes, and this is for a variety of reasons. Not all fig trees will have good figs. Examples of these are found elsewhere in Scripture, such as –   “He dug it up and cleared out its stones, And planted it with the choicest vine. He built a tower in its midst, And also made a winepress in it; So He expected it to bring forth good grapes, But it brought forth wild grapes.” Isaiah 5:2   “The Lord showed me, and there were two baskets of figs set before the temple of the Lord, after Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim, king of Judah, and the princes of Judah with the craftsmen and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon. 2 One basket had very good figs, like the figs that are first ripe; and the other basket had very bad figs which could not be eaten, they were so bad. 3 Then the Lord said to me, ‘What do you see, Jeremiah?' And I said, ‘Figs, the good figs, very good; and the bad, very bad, which cannot be eaten, they are so bad.'” Jeremiah 24:1-3   Despite such examples, this is not what Jesus is referring to. He is referring to kinds in general, even if within the same kind there may be plants or trees that produce bad fruit (see the parable in Luke 13:6-9). Oranges will produce good fruit, meaning oranges. Durian trees will produce durian, which is good. Etc.   On the other hand, a thornbush will never produce good fruit nor will a thistle. Their fruit will always be bad. That is seen in his next words, “And the rotten tree, it produces evil fruit.”   The word is sapros. It is variously translated as rotten, useless, corrupt, depraved, etc. It is derived from sepo, to corrupt or rot. And so, it can mean bad fruit on a good type of tree, but that would not fit His previous contrast between types. Rather, the sense can be derived from His parable in Matthew 13 –   “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 13:47-50   The good fish are those types that are acceptable for eating. The bad would be those types that are unacceptable to eat. Likewise, false prophets are represented by one type of plant, the bad, such as the thorn or the thistle. Those who teach properly are represented by the other, the grape or the fig.   False prophets, by their very nature, are bad. Nothing they put forth will be good. On the other hand, proper teachers may have some bad fruit if their doctrine isn't perfect, but their fruit in general will be good.   Life application: False prophets have already been equated to wolves, even if they come in sheep's clothing. Their nature is that of being wolves. The exterior doesn't change that which is found inwardly.   The only way for a false prophet to not be a false prophet is to have a complete change in nature. Unlike a tree, this is not impossible. Humans are not trees. However, the nature of a false prophet is to provide false teachings. There will always be bad fruit coming from a false prophet as long as he continues to put forth that which is false.   The initial error is to be found in the false prophet, for example, Joseph Smith who founded Mormonism. But the error could have been stopped from spreading if those who heard him properly identified him as a false prophet. However, they didn't. Thus, the secondary error lies with the people who fail to identify him and walk away from him.   They had access to the proper manual, meaning the Bible. It was readily available in the US at the time of Joseph Smith. But it was left unattended by those who heard him and then followed him in his false teachings.   Mormonism is not simply a branch of Christianity (an orange tree, for example), that may have bad oranges on it, meaning a good tree with bad fruit. Rather, Mormonism is a different plant altogether (a thistle, for example) that is corrupt by nature. It can never be a good plant. If a person in Mormonism wants to be a part of what is proper, he must go to the good tree to get its fruit.   Paul explains this in Galatians 1 when referring to Judaizers, the equivalent of today's Hebrew Roots Movement –   “I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:6-9   Paul says, “which is not another.” The doctrine of Mormonism, like that of the Judaizers, is not another display of the good news. It is bad news. The inherent nature itself is corrupt. Be sure to be able to identify both bad inherent nature as well as bad fruit coming from a good tree, meaning wrong doctrine within the overall family of true Christianity. We are all accountable for what we accept. Check out what you are taught!   Lord God, You have saved some of us from Islam, Buddhism, or atheism. But You have also saved some of us from Mormonism, Judaizers, and other religions that at first appear to be a part of the Christian faith. Help us to identify the error of false religion and then speak out against it so that others can also be saved from the false paths they are on. Amen.  

Send us a textIf you are interested in the Daily Bible Devotional, you can find it at the links below: Amazon - (paperback, hardcover, and Kindle) Spiritbuilding.com - (premium quality paperback) Youtube Video Introducing the Content Feel free to reach out with any questions: emersonk78@me.com Sponsors:  Jon Cunningham, Owner, Cunningham Financial Group Website:  www.cunninghamfinancialgroup.com    Phone:  205-326-7364 Tyler Cain, Senior Loan Officer, Statewide Mortgage Websites: https://statewidemortgage.com/ https://tylercain.floify.com/ Phone: 813-380-8487We must obey the commandments of Jesus and the principles taught by Him and by His apostles and prophets. We answer to Him, and our salvation and hope is found IN HIM. It is not found anywhere else, not within us, not in men, churches, or movements. Therefore, none of those have the right to make the salvation rule for your life: only Jesus. Colossians 2 warns against Judaizing teachers, and gnostics, trying to implement sectarian and legalistic rules upon the people, teaching extreme conservatism as some form of holiness. But they had no right. Many decisions are yours to weigh, build a conscience around, and make. But, this freedom must be wielded with care. There are a couple of important laws that should govern you, even when you have the biblical right to do something, even when others cannot tell you not to. What are they? Let's dig in on one, the most vital one, today, and come back next week for the second. 

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Galatians 5:22-6:10 (especially 6:10 compared to James 1:27 and even 1Corinthians13 → Where it all lands!)Paul writes these conciliatory, comforting words in the context of a rebukingdiatribe to the churches of Galatia. They were receiving and listening to Judaizingbeliefs from Jerusalem. They were teaching his gentile converts that they needed to follow the law and be circumcised along with faith in Jesus to be saved. This was a call to arms for Paul and this letter mirrors his opposition to these ideas, especially for the gentiles. Paul emphasizes that it's not the law or circumcision that saves but only by faith in Christ (Galatians 3). He even rebuked Peter, who seemed intimidated by thesevisiting Judaizers (2:11-21). Paul was opposed to this message, and he expressed hi opposition to this message in very strong language. The author of 1 Corinthians 13pronounces curses and a coarse rebuke both against heretical angels (1:8-9) as well as Judiazers (5:12)All just prior to writing the beautiful words of Galatians 5:22-25 concerning the“Fruit of the Holy Spirit”. Was he speaking in the context of the fruit of the Spirit” when in prior chapters he issues such rebukes or is he reflecting on his own, “Acts of the flesh”(5:19-21)? I think Paul the very human Apostle of the Spirit was upset at what the damage these Judaizers were causing to their gentile brothers and sisters that he behaved confrontationally, urgently so he might mitigate the damage that would be done to the key message that would unite as one people, Jew and Gentile. And once he dealt with this hot issue he seems to calm himself down to a more “Fruit of the Spirit” inspired strategy that would unite and be conciliators to are body, both Jew and Gentile; In 6:1-10 illustrates some of how the Spirit inspired qualities would look like and what the central aim would be “to do good to all.”1) How to treat those entrapped in a sin: possibly one done against the teacher; 6:1:“People that are spiritual enough to restore sinners, are still possible sinners;”a) There cannot be any holier than thou Christians in Paul's view.2) To fulfill the central law of Christ (Galatians 5:22 & 6:2 “Love must help carryeach others overbearing burdens (see also Galatians 5:14)a) (Rather than trying to take the speck out of someone else's eye take thebeam out of our own eye (Matthew 7:5) follow Jesus's example in 1 Peter5:7, he accepts all our cares and anxieties, when you help someone withthe burdens, they cannot carry alone, ask yourself why are you or I doingit?3) Stay far away from relational pride: comparing, comparing, evaluating, constantlycomparing! Rather focus on self (It's our actions compared to God's word andSpirit (See the acts of the flesh 5:19-21)4) Learn to Lead by example and don't be lazy: teach others to be responsibleespecially in spiritual matters (note verse 5 is not equal to 6:2 which impliesburdens that come upon others like 6:1 that our brother and sister cannot carryalone. (See also 2 Corinthians 1:3-7 → comforting each other!)5) Be generous especially to your teachers, verse 6 (Again the fruit of the Spirit5:22-26) (See also 2 Corinthians 9:6-15)6) Reaping and sowing: We can never fool God (Verses 7-8) (or mock God like, forexample Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:1-11. Note here the negative ordestructive effect doesn't come from God but “from the flesh” the positive effectsfrom the SpiritConclusionWarning that this will not be easy for human Christians: Verse 9, but the clearestevidence that we are keeping in step with the Spirit(5:26) is summarized in verse10: again not perfectly done but done with humility, honesty and hunger for God'sglory.Again read 6:9-10;

Paedobaptism is contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Paedobaptism is contrary to the Great Commission of Jesus Christ. Paedobaptism is not in the Bible. Paedobaptism is either dangerous error or damning heresy (depending on the individual) and needs to be exposed as such for love of Christ, His Church, and a multitude of perishing paedobaptists who are trusting in sacramental sprinkling and Jesus in the same soul damning way the Judaizers of Galatia were trusting in circumcision and Jesus (See Gal. 1:6-10 & 5:1-6). Baptism is the immersion of Holy Spirit regenerated and indwelt repentant Gospel believing confessors of Jesus Christ as Lord in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit! Sprinkling unregenerate, unconscious, unrepentant, unbelieving, unconfessing babies and then pronouncing them covenant bound Christians is not baptism. The Bible knows nothing of this. The antichrist heretical Roman Catholic Church knows it well and has been glad to lend it to a great many professing "reformed" Christians who have failed to apply Sola Scriptura and Semper Reformanda to their doctrine and practice of baptism. Just as love demands that we call our Roman Catholic neighbors to repent of their heretical baptism and believe the Gospel...love demands that we call many of our Protestants neighbors to repent of their heretical baptism and believe the Gospel. May God be pleased to purify, protect, and reform His Church.

Saturday, 4 January 2025   And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. Matthew 6:12   “And You forgive us our debts as also we, we forgive our debtors” (CG).   In the previous verse, Jesus included the thought of receiving one's necessary bread as a part of the Lord's Prayer. He now continues with, “And You forgive us our debts.”   The word translated as debt is opheiléma. It is found only here and in Romans 4:4, where Paul notes that the wages of those who work are like a debt that is owed. Here, the idea being presented is that sinning (a transgression against God) brings about a debt that must be satisfied. Under the law, this satisfaction was through the Levitical sacrificial system, each aspect of which anticipated the coming of the Messiah.   God's holiness demands such a satisfaction to cover over wrongdoing, removing it from His presence. This is because nothing impure or defiled can enter into His presence. Understanding this, Jesus next says, “as also we, we forgive our debtors.” Of this, Vincent's Word Studies is probably missing the mark by saying, “The Rev. rightly gives the force of the past tense, we have forgiven; since Christ assumes that he who prays for the remission of his own debts has already forgiven those indebted to him.”   Jesus is not necessarily instructing the people in what has been. Rather, it appears He is instructing them in a state of life that may exist at the time of the prayer but also a state that will be. Thus, it covers all times –   Forgive me for this. I have also forgiven others. Forgive me for what I may do, just as I will also forgive others.   The prayer shows that forgiveness of others is to be a condition for God's forgiveness at any given time, but it also appears more appropriate as a prayer to cover life in general, not each specific occasion that arises.   Life application: Sin is considered a debt that must be paid. As noted, the Levitical sacrificial system was set up for that purpose. However, each aspect of it was given as a type of Christ to come. It was actually ineffective in taking away sin –   “For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.” Hebrews 10:1-4 This is one of the many points of error found in the doctrine of Judaizers, such as the Hebrew Roots Movement. They mandate that people must observe the law. Quite often their doctrine is selective in that they mandate dietary restrictions, Sabbath observance, etc. But then they ignore the sacrificial system. However, the law is a codified whole. There is no observing it in part. It must be observed in its entirety. If Christ Jesus is the fulfillment of the sacrificial system (and He must be because they do not observe that system now), then He is the fulfillment of the entire law that demands a sacrificial system.   To say one must observe the dietary laws, Sabbath laws, etc., but that Jesus is the sacrifice for not observing these laws is convoluted thinking. It is a false presentation of who Jesus is and what He did. A debt for sin is owed. Jesus is the payment for all sin debt. Nothing else can satisfy the debt of sin. And so to mandate law observance makes no sense at all. This is obviously true with Gentiles who neither received the law nor were ever expected to observe it. But it is true with Jews as well. If Jesus fulfilled the law for Israel, which He did, then when they accept Jesus, they enter the New Covenant. The mandates of the Mosaic Law are ended.   Put on your thinking cap! Stay away from those who mandate law observance. To attempt to merit God's favor through the law will only lead to condemnation. All of that work... for nothing. What a sad and wasted existence. Come to Jesus and be saved. Then, live in the grace of God that flows from His completion of the law on your behalf.   Lord God, help us to understand that salvation stems from You alone. You have sent Jesus to do what we cannot do. May we learn this lesson and rest in the finished work of Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

Paul previously mentioned false brothers in Galatians 2:4, and then he discussed the fact that he had been in direct communication with other apostles like James, Peter, and John. In Galatians 5:2, he specifically states that “I, Paul, say to you…” And here in Galatians 6:11, he draws attention to his own handwriting. It is likely that the recipients would have been able to recognize his handwriting and they could be assured that this letter of such strong rebuke against the Judaizers was indeed from Paul. This is also an example of Paul wanting to openly and honestly take ownership of these statements. This surely would be an encouragement to the recipients and it should be so for us today to stand behind what we say and write.

Topics: Unity or Division in Early Church, Debate on Circumcision, Faith by Grace Alone vs Law, James' Leadership, James' Letter to Gentiles, Paul's Missionary Journeys, Jerusalem Council Decisions, Role of Pharisees, Peter Defends Grace, Gentile Inclusion, Tensions Between Believers, Impact of Council of Jerusalem, Paul's Response to James' Demands, Four Mosaic Commandments Debate, Mixing Covenants, Paul Preaches Christ Alone, Apostolic Unity and Disunity, Old Testament Influence on Early Church, Peter on Faith and Grace Alone, Paul's Evangelism Focus was Jesus, Timothy's Circumcision, Nazarite Vow in Acts 18 and Acts 21, Jewish Zealots Attack Paul, Accusations in Jerusalem by Judaizers, Gentiles in the Temple, Grace vs Law Believers in Jesus, Acts Chapter 15-21, Acts 15:11, Acts 15:19, Acts 15:29, Acts 16:3, Acts 16:4, Acts 21:20, Acts 21:23-24, Acts 21:28, Acts 21:40, Acts 22:1Was James Being Legalistic in Acts 15 and Acts 21?Facebook Post: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/19hR1tunhy/Did Paul Deliver the Acts 15 Letter to EVERY town He Visited?Facebook Post: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1DjFXF8HVP/A Once-Sided Decision of Pushing Law into GraceFacebook Post: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1868xNvjj7/Send Matt a text about this episode!Support the showSign up for Matt's free daily devotional! https://mattmcmillen.com/newsletter

SCRIPTURE: Philippians 3:1-7 SHOW NOTES: We invite you to visit our ministry website, Discover God's Truth, where you will find resources to encourage you in your Walk with God. In the book of Philippians, Paul praises the believers in Philippi and calls them to unity as they share the gospel of Jesus Christ. He reminds them that the key to achieving unity is for each one to adopt Christ's humility. Paul also speaks of joy and rejoicing despite the opposition of others. "But I will rejoice even if I lose my life, pouring it out like a liquid offering to God, just like your faithful service is an offering to God. And I want all of you to share that joy. Yes, you should rejoice, and I will share your joy." Philippians 2:17-18In the opening verses of chapter three, Paul warns his readers about the Judaizers, who emphasized the importance of circumcision. These leaders believed it was a prerequisite for justification (Acts 15:1).Without life-changing faith, circumcision is merely an outward sign without an inward reality. Similarly, baptism without life-changing faith is just a submersion in water. We should be cautious of those who focus only on the external. (See 1 Samuel 16:7)Paul adopted the Judaizers' attitude of confidence in the flesh to strengthen his argument. He did this to demonstrate that his rejection of Jewish advantages was not due to a lack of them in his life. "Though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also, if anyone else thinks he has a reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more …" Philippians 3:4 SONG: "Because of Jesus" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7hBvI6GPoU

Monday, 25 November 2024   For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:20   “For I say to you, that if not it might excel – your righteousness – above the scribes and Pharisees, no – not – should you enter into the kingdom of the heavens” (CG).   In the previous verse, Jesus noted that the person who would break one of the commandments of the law, even the least of them, and he was to teach men the same, he would be called least in the kingdom of the heavens, but for the one who should keep and also teach, such a person would be called great in the kingdom of the heavens. Now, to make a point about the necessary nature of this point, He continues with, “For I say to you, that if not it might excel – your righteousness – above the scribes and Pharisees.”   The words of Jesus bring in the obvious truth that the scribes and the Pharisees were considered examples of the epitome of righteousness by the people. If this were not the case, there would be no reason to make such a comparison.   As this is the case, and as He says to His disciples that their righteousness must excel that of the scribes and Pharisees, He is noting that the righteousness of these two groups was not sufficient to obtain what He will next state. Having set those boundaries by His introductory words, He next completes the thought saying emphatically, “no – not – should you enter into the kingdom of the heavens.”   To clearly understand the meaning, Jesus has just said that unless the righteousness of His hearers was greater than that of the scribes and Pharisees, they would certainly not enter into the kingdom of the heavens. Therefore, by default, the scribes and Pharisees were not righteous enough to enter.   The very people who were considered the greatest examples of righteousness by the masses lacked the righteousness necessary to obtain what God promised. As noted in the previous commentary, Paul had said that concerning the righteousness which is in the law, he was blameless. Just prior to saying that, in Philippians 3:5, he stated that he was a Pharisee.   Therefore, the point that Jesus is making is that Paul, a Pharisee who was blameless before the law concerning righteousness, could not enter into the kingdom of the heavens. The reason why is found in their own writings. In Habakkuk 2:4, it says –   “Behold the proud, His soul is not upright in him; But the just shall live by his faith.”    The Hebrew word tsaddiq is used, translated as just. The just, meaning the righteous (the word carries both connotations), are those who live by faith. To trust in one's own merit through law observance, which is what the scribes and Pharisees did, was to nullify faith. But the Lord, through Habakkuk, said that faith is what justifies a man. Paul explains this in Romans 1 –   “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, ‘The just shall live by faith.'” Romans 1:16, 17   He also provides an explanation in Galatians 3 –   “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.' 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for ‘the just shall live by faith.' 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but ‘the man who does them shall live by them.' 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree'), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.” Galatians 3:10-14   Paul clearly saw that the law only brought condemnation. Leviticus 18:5 says that the man who does the things of the law (meaning perfect obedience to the law) would live. But every person who ever lived under the law died. No person lived because of the law. Rather, they died under the law. Only Christ fulfilled the law, proving it through His resurrection and signifying that His death was in fulfillment of it.   Therefore, only by faith in the completed work of Jesus can a man possess the righteousness that exceeds the most meticulously faithful observers of the law, such as Paul the Pharisee was. It perfectly explains Paul's claim to boast only in the cross of Jesus –   “But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.” Galatians 6:14, 15   Circumcision, the benchmark and standard used by Paul for law observance, means nothing. As such, law observance means nothing. Only by faith in what Jesus did can we have the righteousness that allows us entrance into the kingdom of the heavens.   Life application: If one takes Jesus' words as recorded in Matthew and applies them to his walk before the Lord, attempting to obtain a righteousness before the law that is greater than the scribes and the Pharisees, he is wasting his time.   But this is what so many do. They are duped by Judaizers and Hebrew Roots teachers who claim people must adhere to the Law of Moses in order to be saved. It is a self-condemning theology.   If you are truly interested in being saved, it is time for you to give up your arrogant attempts at meriting God's favor through your own deeds and to simply trust – by faith alone – in the full, final, finished, and forever work of Jesus. Nothing else will do.   Lord God Almighty, You have done everything necessary to bring us back to You, justified and holy, through the giving of Jesus Christ our Lord for our sins. We trust that what He has done is sufficient to save us and to continue to save us until the day You come for Your people. Thank You, O God, for Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

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Topics: Justification, James, Pastoral Dominance, Acts 15, Acts 21, Abraham and Rahab, Council of Jerusalem, Response of Faith, Judaizers in Antioch, Peter Not Eating With Gentiles, James Disagreeing Gospel is Grace Alone, Error of Pastors in Charge at Church, Church History, Lies or Error, Grace Narratives on James, Twisting Scripture on James, Acts 15:19-29, Galatians 2:16, Romans 4:5, Yoke of Slavery on Gentiles, Works Don't Justify Anyone, Error of Showing Faith is Genuine, Genesis 15:6, Joshua 2, Justified in Front of Men, James Pressured Paul, Cleanse Your Hands, Purify Yourself, James Still Going to the Temple, Love One Another, Don't Create Factions Over JamesSend Matt a text about this episode!Support the showSign up for Matt's free daily devotional! https://mattmcmillen.com/newsletter

Friday, 22 November 2024   “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. Matthew 5:17   “You, deem not that I came to disintegrate the law or the prophets. Not, I came to disintegrate but to fulfill” (CG).   In the previous verse, Jesus told the disciples to radiate their good works in order to glorify their Father in heaven. Now, He brings up words that are so misquoted and misapplied within the church that entire cults have used them to justify the unjustifiable. He begins with, “You, deem not that I came to disintegrate the law or the prophets.”   First, Jesus' words are to the people of Israel, to whom the law was given. No other people on the planet were given the Law of Moses. The law was not binding on any other people in the past, and it is not binding on any other people today. The context is Jesus, speaking under the law and to the people of Israel. Nobody else.   To remove this context is to form a pretext. It is unsound. Jesus is telling Israel that they should not perceive that His mission was to destroy the law or the prophets. That was not His mission, and nobody was to accuse Him of conducting His ministry otherwise. He was born under the law, and He had no design or intent to set aside Moses in His ministry.   But some may accuse Him of such, saying He was disobedient to Moses. No! He exclaims. That was not His mission at all. Because of these words, Judaizers, such as in Paul's time, and a myriad of cults in our time, such as the Hebrew Roots movement, seize on His words and avow that everybody must adhere to the Law of Moses. He lived under it, and so we are obligated to it too.   From there, they will take the words of the coming verse and build upon their terrible theology with those words as well. For now, it is absolutely certain that Jesus did not come to disintegrate the Law and the Prophets. He has clearly avowed that. However, He doesn't stop there. He next says, “Not, I came to disintegrate but to fulfill.”   You can't stop with half a verse and expect your theology to be complete and proper. Jesus did not come to disintegrate the law. The law is binding on Israel as much today as it was when Moses gave it to them at the foot of Mount Sinai.   However, Jesus' mission was to fulfill it for those who trust in Him, thus setting it aside and offering them His grace in place of it. And fulfill it, He did –   “So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, ‘It is finished!' And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.” John 19:30   Jesus fulfilled the law, finishing the task set before Him. Paul speaks of this as well –   “There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” Romans 8:1-4   Paul is writing to both Jews and Gentiles, telling them that the law's requirements are fulfilled in Christ and they are set aside in Christ. This is explained, explicitly, many times in the New Testament epistles –   “For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.” Ephesians 2:14-16   Paul says the law is abolished through the cross for both Jews and Gentiles. He repeats this again in Colossians 2, using Christ's physical body as a metaphor for the law –   “And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.” Colossians 2:13, 14   The author of Hebrews says that the law is annulled –   “For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.” Hebrews 7:18, 19   The “former commandment” refers to the Law of Moses. The “better hope” is the fulfillment of the law by Jesus. He also says the law is abolished –   “In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.” Hebrews 8:13   The words “ready to vanish away” refer to the time when Israel calls to the Lord, receiving the grace of Jesus Christ. At that time, they will no longer observe the law. He also says –   “Previously saying, ‘Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them' (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, ‘Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.' He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” Hebrews 10:8-10   The sacrifices of the Old Covenant were ineffectual to bring man near to God. Jesus, not coming to disintegrate the law but fulfill it, did this in accord with the will of God. In His accomplishment of that, the law is “taken away,” and the New Covenant is introduced for all who will come to Him through faith, being sanctified once and forever by the precious blood (meaning the life) of Jesus Christ.   Life application: Context matters. Know your Bible through and through. Properly divide what is being said. Attempting to earn God's favor through law observance is to set aside the grace of the cross – “Thanks God, I know you tried, but I will get this.”   It is a proverbial slap in God's face, and you will find yourself condemned when you stand before Him at the Great White Throne. All that effort... for nothing. Come to Jesus and be saved, once and forever. All His effort... for all things!   Heavenly Father, help us not to think more of ourselves and our deeds than we should. Christ did it all. Now, may our lives being lived for Him be a pleasing and acceptable offering back to You for what You have done through Him. May we never set aside the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

Paul wrote to the Galatians with the motivation to help turn them back to grace and the ministry of the Spirit that he had introduced to them. They had come freely to Christ by faith alone and received the Spirit apart from works ... but they would later be solicited by believing Jews who warned them they also needed certain applications from the law of Moses—starting with circumcision. It got us thinking about a question that may be difficult to answer: What if they had never been approached by the Judaizers who were baiting them into adding law/works to faith? Would they have continued on the path of grace by faith alone as Paul had ministered to them? Or would they have drifted towards feeling the need to establish or maintain their own righteousness without any outside persuasion? In other words, as humans, are elements of legalism and fleshed-based works unavoidable in this world? As God's creation, we are faced with many choices. Ask yourself, do you believe confidently in what God did through the gift of His Son, Jesus Christ, to bring you life and a righteous perfection ... or do you feel it was deficient and uncertain enough for you to work at adding something to it? It may even be something related to church ceremonial practices. Will we listen to the witness from within or the wide array of audible voices from outside? --Available on Amazon - "Clash of The Covenants: Escaping Religious Bondage Through the Grace Guarantee" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0713ZSKY7

When archeologists Philippe Le Bas and William Henry Waddington discovered the ruins of an ancient Christian church in Syria in the 1800's, not only did it contain the world's oldest carved inscription bearing the name of Jesus Christ - they unearthed an unstained memory that the Roman Empire and Judaizers tried to erase from history. Show Notes:  ⁠Philippe Le Bas⁠ and ⁠William Henry Waddington⁠, Greek Inscriptions grecques et latines recueillies en Grèce et en Asie Mineure (1870), volume 3, inscription 2558. Minor reference in ⁠Gerhard Kittel⁠, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, under Synagogue. Also referenced in the ⁠Catholic Encyclopedia⁠ article on Marcionites, using Le Bas and Waddington as a reference. Modeling the Antiquities Trade in Iraq and Syria (MANTIS) https://isac.uchicago.edu/research/projects/mantis Marcionite Christian Church https://www.marcionitechurch.org/ The Very First Bible https://www.theveryfirstbible.org/ Presbyter Chat https://pre-nicene.org/Presbyter-Chat.html

Revelation, Session Seven Christ the Savior, Anderson SC Chapters Two and Three – the letters to the seven churches Sources: The translation of the Apocalypse is from the Orthodox Study Bible. Lawrence R. Farley, The Apocalypse of St. John: A Revelation of Love and Power, The Orthodox Bible Study Companion (Chesterton, IN: Ancient Faith Publishing, 2011), Bishop Averky, The Epistles and the Apocalypse (Commentary on the Holy Scriptures of the New Testament, Volume III. (Holy Trinity Seminary Press, 2018). Andrew of Caesarea, Commentary on the Apocalypse, ed. David G. Hunter, trans. Eugenia Scarvelis Constantinou, vol. 123, The Fathers of the Church (Washington, DC: The Catholic University of America Press, 2011). Jack Norman Sparks, The Orthodox Study Bible: Notes (Thomas Nelson, 2008), 1712. Venerable Bede, The Explanation of the Apocalypse, trans. Edward Marshall (Oxford: James Parker and Co., 1878). William C. Weinrich, ed., Revelation, Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 2005).       Andrew of Caesarea, Commentary on the Apocalypse, ed. David G. Hunter, trans. Eugenia Scarvelis Constantinou, vol. 123, The Fathers of the Church (Washington, DC: The Catholic University of America Press, 2011), 63–80. The Things Declared to the Angel of the Church in Pergamum 2:12–13a. 12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: “Thus says the one who has the sharp two-edged sword: 13a I know your works and where you dwell, where the throne of Satan is. This city was full of idols…  2:13b. And you keep my name. You did not deny my faith even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, that all-faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. … 2:14–15. 14 But I have a few things against you: that you have there keeping the teaching of Balaam, who in Balaam taught [30] Balak to put a stumbling-block before the sons of Israel, to eat meat sacrificed to idols, and to practice fornication. 15 Thus you also have those who keep the teaching of the Nicolaitans, which I likewise hate. So it seems this city had possessed two difficulties: First, the majority was Greek, and second, among those who were called believers, the shameful Nicolaitans had sown evil “tares among the wheat.”8 … 2:16. Repent. If not, I will come to you soon, and I will war against them by the sword of my mouth. Love for humankind is also in the threat. For he does not say, “against you,” but I will war against them, those who are incurably “diseased.” 2:17. The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches: To the one who is victorious I will give to him to eat from the hidden manna, [31] and I will give to him a small white stone, and a new name written upon the stone, which no one knows except the one receiving it.” The “Bread of Life” is the hidden manna, the One who descended from heaven for us and has become edible. …   Things Declared to the Angel of the Church in Thyatira 2:18. And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: “Thus says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire and whose feet are like glowing brass. [32] … [T]his union, ignited by means of the divine Spirit, cannot be grasped by human reasoning. 2:19–20. 19 I know your works and your love and faith and service and your patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first. 20 But I have this very much against you, that you allow the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet, to teach and to lead my servants astray to practice immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. … 2:21. I gave her time to repent of her immorality. The evil a choice, he says, since, having received time to repent rightly, she did not use it. 2:22–23a. 22 Behold, I will throw her on a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23a And I will strike her children dead. … 2:23b–25. 23b And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches reins and hearts, and I will give to each of you according to your works. 24 And I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, any who have not learned the deep things of Satan, as they say: I do not lay upon you any other burden; 25 only hold fast to that which you have until I come. These things are to the deceived heretics and those deceiving others. [34] To the more simple he says: “Since you, through your simple manner, are not able to endure the cunning and quick-witted men, inasmuch as you do not know the deep things of Satan, as you say, I do not request that you do battle through words but that you safeguard the teaching which you have received, until I will take you from there.” 2:26–28a. 26 And he who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, I will give him authority over the nations, 27 and he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as earthen vessels they will be shattered, 28a just as I myself have received from my Father. To him who does my works,” he says, I will give authority “over five or ten cities,” as the Gospel said. … 2:28b–29. 28b And I will give him the morning star. 29 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” Morning star, or, it says, the one about whom Isaiah was saying, “How did he fall from heaven, the bright rising morning star?” whom he promised he will hand over to be “crushed under the feet of the saints.”22 Or the One who brings light, as has been said by the blessed Peter, [35] “dawning in the hearts” of the faithful, the well-known illumination of Christ. …. It is not surprising that we have taken this as referring to two things totally contradictory to each other. For we learn from the divine Scriptures that the lion of Judah the Christ,30 and from Bashan the Antichrist. According to what is meant, it is this or the other. It also implies both the dawn of the future day, by which the darkness of the present life will be covered, and also its “messenger” bringing the good news of this .32…   The Things Declared to the Angel of the Church in Sardis 3:1. And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: “Thus says the one who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars: I know your works, that in name you live, and you are dead. … 3:2. Wake up and strengthen those things which remain and which were about to die; for I have not found your works being fulfilled in the sight of God. “Shake off the sleep of laziness,” he says, “and strengthen your members, who are about to die completely through unbelief.” For it is not the beginning of good works that crowns the worker, but the completion. 3:3a. Remember, therefore, what you received and heard, and keep [that], and repent. [37] “Keep the tradition which you received from the apostles, and repent of laziness.” 3:3b. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come upon you. Naturally. … 3:4. You have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. “You possess this good,” he says, “that some people, those who have not soiled the garment of the flesh by filthy deeds, will be with me in the rebirth brilliantly attired because they have kept ‘the garment of incorruption'5 spotless.” 3:5–6. 5 He who conquers shall be wrapped about in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life, and I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. 6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” He who is victorious in the above-mentioned victory will shine like the sun in the clothing of his own virtues, and his name will remain indelible in the book of the living. [38] “He will be confessed before my Father and the holy powers,” even as triumphant martyrs, just as he says in the Gospel, “the righteous will shine as the sun.”7   The Things Declared to the Angel of the Church in Philadelphia 3:7. And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: “Thus says the Holy One, the True One, who has the key of David, who opens and no one shuts, who shuts and no one opens. His kingdom is called the key of David, for it is the symbol of authority. The key is also the Holy Spirit, of both the book of Psalms and every prophecy, through which the “treasures of knowledge” are opened … 3:8. I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut; that you have little [39] power, and you kept my word and did not deny my name. …  “I opened before you a door of instructive preaching, which cannot be closed by temptations. I am satisfied with the attitude, and I do not demand things beyond strength.” 3:9. Behold, I will give those of the synagogue of Satan—who say that they are Jews and are not, but they lie. I will make them so that they come and bow down before your feet, and they will know that I have loved you. “As a reward for the confession of my name,” he says, “you will have the return and repentance of the Jews, who will kneel before your feet, asking to approach me for the illumination which comes from me, remaining Judaizers secretly in their hearts, not in appearance.” 3:10–11. 10 Because you have kept the word of my patience, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth. I am coming soon. 11 Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown. [40] …  He rightly says, I come quickly, for “after the affliction of those days immediately” the Lord will come, as he says. For this reason he suddenly commands to keep the treasure of the faith inviolate, so that no one loses the crown of patience. 3:12a. He who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; he will never go out of it, Naturally. The victor over the opposing powers is established a pillar and a foundation of the truth, having in it the immovable base according to the Apostle. 12b. And I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which descends out of heaven from my God, and my new name. [41] “Upon the heart of such a pillar,” he says, “I will engrave the knowledge of the divine name and of the heavenly Jerusalem, so that he will see in her the beautiful things through the eyes of the Spirit, and also my new name which will be known by the saints in the future.” … 3:13. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” Let us pray that we ourselves possess such a little ear.   Things Declared to the Angel of the Church of the Laodiceans 3:14a. And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: “Thus says The Amen, the faithful and true witness, … 3:14b. the beginning of God's creation: …  For the beginning of creation is the primary and uncreated cause. 3:15–16a. 15 I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you be cold or hot! 16a Thus it is that you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, Gregory the Theologian says, “We must live exactly hot or exactly cold.” … [I]in faith, the middle way and the lukewarm are worthless. 3:16b–17. 16b I intend to vomit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, ‘I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing,' and you do not know that you are miserable and wretched and poor and blind and naked. “Just as lukewarm water causes people who receive it to vomit,” he says, “hence I too, through a word of my mouth, will vomit you like detested food into eternal punishment, for you mingled the thorns of riches with the seed of the divine word and you are unaware of your own poverty in spiritual matters and the blindness of your spiritual eyes and the nakedness of good deeds.” 3:18. I advise you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you will become rich, and that you may put on white garments, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed, and salve to anoint your eyes, that you may see. … 3:19. If I love someone, I reproach and correct . Therefore, be zealous and repent. Oh, the love for humanity! How much goodness the reproach holds! 3:20. Behold, I stand at the door and I knock; if one will hear my voice and will open the door, I will come in to him, and I will dine with him, and he with me. “My presence is not forced,” he says. … 3:21. He who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I myself have conquered and taken my seat with my Father on his throne. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” [45] The Kingdom and the repose of the future age are indicated by the throne.  …  Therefore, having made the cloud a vehicle for the rise heavenward in his Ascension,25 he also says through the Apostle that the saints will be “caught up in the clouds to meet him,” and he will come Judge, as Creator and Master of creation, handing over to the saints to judge those who opposed the truly divine and blessed slavery, as the Apostle says, “Do you not know that we will judge angels?” that is, the “rulers of darkness.”28 …  

Some sections of Scripture can be read more quickly and understood more easily than Galatians 3. Paul is traversing 2000 years of God's covenant dealings with people, without breaking a sweat, so if you are trailing him, panting and out of shape, you are not alone! Here, Paul parries and counters arguments from the Judaizers while helping the Galatians to understand how much they have inherited by faith in Christ.

Original Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9HfH18W_QI Dr. E. Michael Jones is a prolific Catholic writer, lecturer, journalist, and Editor of Culture Wars Magazine who seeks to defend traditional Catholic teachings and values from those seeking to undermine them. ——— The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit by E. Michael Jones: https://www.fidelitypress.org/book-products/the-jewish-revolutionary-spirit Dr. Jones Books: fidelitypress.org/ Subscribe to Culture Wars Magazine: culturewars.com Donate: culturewars.com/donate Follow: https://culturewars.com/links

This week we will be studying Galatians 4:8-20 under the theme “Haunted by Idols.” The Galatians had been influenced by false teachers (Judaizers) who were leading them into a work-righteousness that was actually quite similar to their old paganism. Paul persuades them away from this error of religion through a combination of truth and love – personalized gospel ministry. SERIES SUMMARY: Galatians is written to believers who were allowing the gospel to become distorted in their lives. Influential teachers were causing them to focus more on themselves and their obedience than on Christ's deliverance. In this series, we'll learn that everything in a fallen world is fighting to drive us further into self-focus. But the beauty of Christ pulls our eyes to him, healing our self-inflicted wounds, and liberating us to love and serve others. If you'd like to leave an offering or monetary donation to our ministry please click here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tinyurl.com/stmarcusgive

This week we will be studying Galatians 4:8-20 under the theme “Haunted by Idols.” The Galatians had been influenced by false teachers (Judaizers) who were leading them into a work-righteousness that was actually quite similar to their old paganism. Paul persuades them away from this error of religion through a combination of truth and love – personalized gospel ministry. SERIES SUMMARY: Galatians is written to believers who were allowing the gospel to become distorted in their lives. Influential teachers were causing them to focus more on themselves and their obedience than on Christ's deliverance. In this series, we'll learn that everything in a fallen world is fighting to drive us further into self-focus. But the beauty of Christ pulls our eyes to him, healing our self-inflicted wounds, and liberating us to love and serve others. If you'd like to leave an offering or monetary donation to our ministry please click here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tinyurl.com/stmarcusgive

In this episode of Wisdom Journey, we delve into Galatians 2 where Paul takes a bold stand against compromising the truth of the gospel. Facing pressure from the Judaizers, Paul remains unwavering, advocating for salvation through faith in Christ alone, without the addition of Mosaic law requirements. Join us as we explore Paul's confrontation with Peter, the importance of staying true to Scripture, and how these ancient lessons apply to our faith journey today. Discover why there's no room for compromise when it comes to the gospel of grace.

Guest Bios Show Transcript https://youtu.be/XKwF1N--a00For more than two decades, Patrick and Mary DeMuth faithfully served as lay leaders at Lakepointe Church, a megachurch in the Dallas/Fort Worth area pastored by Josh Howerton. But as concerns about Howerton grew, Patrick and Mary found they could no longer stay in good conscience. And now, they're dealing with the anger and grief so many so-called “church refugees” feel. In this edition of The Roys Report (TRR), Mary DeMuth joins host Julie Roys to talk about navigating church bewilderment. This is a condition more and more Christians are experiencing today, as scandal and corruption are increasingly seeping into the church. And if you caught the previous TRR podcast with Amanda Cunningham, you heard about many of the concerning issues at Lakepointe Church. This is the church where Mary and Patrick served for 23 years. How do you deal with righteous anger? How do you navigate the grief? How much is okay to say, and what is gossip? How do you find another church home when you're dealing with feelings of betrayal and lack of trust? How do you avoid getting in the same situation again? These are crucial questions, which Mary—an internationally known author and a repeat speaker at our Restore Conference—admits she is wrestling with. And, as is so characteristic of Mary, she engages these questions with grace, wisdom, and a passion for truth and justice. Sadly, many churches have created a culture where it's not okay to talk about leaving a toxic church. But as Mary explains in this podcast, the church won't get better until we talk about it. Believers must begin to evaluate and process the toxicity in churches—and how we can truly become the Body of Christ. Mary has recently developed a Church Hurt Checklist to help people understand their situation and begin to process and articulate it. Download it free at marydemuth.com/churchhurt Guests Mary DeMuth Mary DeMuth is an international speaker, podcaster, and author of over 40 books, fiction and nonfiction, including The Most Misunderstood Women of the Bible and We Too: How the Church Can Respond Redemptively to the Sexual Abuse Crisis. Mary lives in Texas with her husband of 30+ years and is mom to three adult children. Learn more at MaryDeMuth.com. Show Transcript Julie Roys: For more than two decades, Patrick and Mary DeMuth faithfully served as leaders at a megachurch in the Dallas Fort Worth area. But as concerns about the current pastor grew, they found they could no longer stay in good conscience. And now they’re dealing with the anger and grief so many so-called church refugees feel. Julie Roys: Welcome to The Roy’s Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys. And today, Mary DeMuth joins me to talk about navigating church bewilderment. Sadly, this is an issue many Christians are dealing with, as abuse, scandal, and corruption increasingly seem to be seeping into the church. Julie Roys: And if you caught our last podcast with Amanda Cunningham, you heard about many of the concerning issues at Lake Point Church in the Dallas Fort Worth area, where Josh Howerton is Pastor. This is the church where Mary and Patrick served for 23 years. And if you missed our prior podcast, it was a real eye-opener and I encourage you to go back and listen to that. Julie Roys: Today’s podcast is a sequel to my podcast with Amanda, but rather than exposing the issues at Lake Point today, Mary is going to be discussing the aftermath of leaving. How do you deal with righteous anger? How do you navigate the grief? How do you know how much is okay to say? And what is gossip? And how do you find another church home when you’re dealing with feelings of betrayal and lack of trust? How do you avoid getting in the same situation again? Julie Roys: These are crucial questions and ones that I know many of you are dealing with today. And so I’m so looking forward to diving into this topic with Mary DeMuth. But first I’d like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Talbot Seminary and Marquardt of Barrington. Julie Roys: Are you passionate about impacting the world so it reflects biblical ideals of justice? The Talbot School of Theology Doctor of Ministry program is launching a new track exploring the theological, social, and practical dimensions of biblical justice today. The program equips students with the knowledge, skills, and spiritual foundation needed to address social issues with wisdom and compassion. Julie Roys: Justice has become a key issue in our culture, but more importantly, it’s an issue that’s close to God’s heart. While it’s clear the Bible calls God’s people to pursue justice, we must be guided by His Word within that pursuit. Talbot has created this track to do just that. As part of this program, you’ll examine issues such as trafficking, race, immigration, and poverty. Julie Roys: And I’ll be teaching a session as well, focusing on the right use of power in our churches so we can protect the vulnerable, rather than harm them. So join me and a community of like-minded scholars committed to social change and ethical leadership. Apply now at TALBOT.EDU/DMIN. Also, if you’re looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and quality. That's because the owners there, Dan and Kurt Marquardt, are men of integrity. To check them out just go to BUYACAR123.COM. Julie Roys: Again, joining me is Christian author and podcaster, Mary DeMuth, and many of Mary from her excellent books like We Too: Discussing the Sexual Abuse Crisis in the Church, and also her memoir, Thin Places. Mary also was a guest speaker at our last Restore Conference in 2022, and she’ll be speaking again at our Restore Conference in Phoenix in February in 2025. So we’re super looking forward to that. Julie Roys: But she joins me now to talk about something that’s been a very painful process for both her and Patrick, and that is leaving her church of 23 years, Lake Point Church there in the Dallas Fort Worth area. So Mary, Thank you so much for being willing to talk about what I know has been a really difficult journey. Mary DeMuth: Thanks. I certainly prayed about this conversation and what I’ve noticed in this space is that a lot of people in the middle of it. are not articulating how they’re feeling because there’s this general pressure from churches that you leave that you aren’t supposed to say anything. And I think there’s a difference between, and we’ll talk about this, I’m sure, throughout this episode, but there’s a difference between leaving quietly and running around gossiping about things. Certainly, those are two different things. Mary DeMuth: But I think what we’ve done is we’ve created a culture of silence; you can’t talk about it and literally we won’t get better unless we do talk about it. So that’s one reason why I am having this conversation today, because this is not a completed story. This is a messy story. I’m in the middle of it. Mary DeMuth: I am heartbroken, and I don’t have all the answers. But I wanted to give word to those of you that may be in that same space, that may be hurting and don’t have words to say about it. And maybe I can articulate some of those things for you. Julie Roys: And I so appreciate that. I find that people often are willing to talk about experiences years after the fact, when they’ve worked it all out and they can tie it all up in a neat bow and we can all go, Oh, that’s so nice. And here’s three ways that you can apply this message. But I knew you were going through a really painful thing that it was messy. You’ve been tweeting about it, or I should say posting on X. Julie Roys: You’ve been very open and honest with your pain. And I really appreciate that. And I love the topic. You actually gave me the title for this, about navigating church bewilderment. And I love that word bewilderment because I feel like it really captures the confusion, the real disillusionment, and then the grief and the pain. Julie Roys: All of these things bound up in one. And so we’re going to get to all that and unpack all of that. But I think to understand the depth of it for you and for Patrick, first I have to understand how deeply vested you were in this church. So talk about what this church has meant to you over more than two decades and the roles that you played in it and the community that you had. Mary DeMuth: Yeah, we’ve been there for 23 years, and we immediately started serving the moment we landed there. And we also were the first non-IMB, it was an SBC church at the time, and we were the first non-IMB missionaries to be sent out from Lake Point. Julie Roys: Define IMB for those who . Mary DeMuth: Yes. International mission board. So typically SBC churches send, they don’t really send their own missionaries. They sponsor IMB because all the money comes out of the SBC into this fund for the International Mission Board. We didn’t want to do that. We wanted to be actually supported because we believed that people who paid prayed. And so we were not IMB, but Lake Point sent us out. So we were church planters in the South of France for a couple of years. And honestly the leadership there at our church, even though we weren’t going through our church, they were the ones that helped us through a really untenable situation. And our loyalty to that church was because they put us back together when we got back from the field.. Mary DeMuth: So much pouring in and so much love. And so we have been a life group leader for 20 of the 23 years. The only three years we weren’t was when we were in France, planting a church. And then I have run a couple of conferences, interestingly enough, called the Re-story Conference, which was very similar sounding to the Restore Conference. Mary DeMuth: And I also recorded a Life Way study at Lake Point for an audience. And then my husband was an elder at the church for five years. And so we have led mission teams all over the world for Lake Point. We have definitely been in the upper levels of volunteer leadership all these years and have enjoyed a lot of conviviality and fellowship. Mary DeMuth: And I never never. I always bragged about my church. It never crossed my mind that there would be a day that I wasn’t at that church anymore. And so as of December of 2023, we are away from there and making our way into a new space. Julie Roys: And I’ve talked about this on this podcast, but we’re in a house church with, some of the folks in our house church were at their previous church for over 30 years, and the amount of pain and loss and especially when you’re, when you’re our age, early 40s. Julie Roys: That’s it. It’s early 40s. No, when you’re a little bit older and later in life and to be at this point where you’re starting over is not at all where you expected to be, and it’s pretty tough to be there. You retain some of the friendships, but everything’s changed. And it just makes for a really really difficult road that you never planned to be on. Julie Roys: Your church; and this is a lot of the reason behind you leaving, changed dramatically in the last 5 years. Stephen Stroop was your previous pastor. And in 2019, I believe Josh Howerton came in. Your husband actually was on the elder board that approved him, right? Mary DeMuth: Yes. Yes. And we’ve had to work through that as you can imagine, because that’s painful to think about. And just to expand a little bit about the why is the basic reasons why we left. There’s a lot of things. As an author, as a published author and as a speaker, the plagiarism was just grating on me and I couldn’t stomach it, but that wasn’t the main reason. Mary DeMuth: Although it’s still very problematic to me. What’s more problematic is that they don’t think it’s a big deal and they don’t see it as sin, and I just disagree. But the two things that we, the two main things that caused us to walk away, one was we were told by leadership, by upper-level leadership, that there was no place for us to serve. Mary DeMuth: And that was really, that was about a year ago. And so it took us about a year to make that decision. Like we were still serving in our life group, but there were things that God has put in us as church planters. And as me, as an author and an advocate that we have a lot that we would love to be able to offer, and to have that cut off when we feel like we’re in the prime of service right now. We weren’t asking to be paid. This is all volunteer, but we were told we couldn’t. Mary DeMuth: And then the second thing that was kind of the straw was all of the crude words and the misogynistic statements that started around 2022 almost every sermon. And as an advocate for sexual abuse victims and as an advocate for women, I could no longer be associated with that church because it just didn’t, I just couldn’t be associated with it. Mary DeMuth: I have stood in front of the Southern Baptist Convention, and I have spoken and advocated, and I have been chewed up and spit out for it. And if I’m going to a church that is marginalizing women, it does not make sense. And so no place for us to serve, big, huge problem. And then I just couldn’t be connected with a church that had that kind of reputation. Julie Roys: Those reasons are huge. and make an awful lot of sense. The plagiarism as you said, the crude remarks, the misogynistic remarks. And for a lot of folks, if you’re like, what are they talking about? I do encourage you to go back and listen to our last podcast with Amanda Cunningham, where we went over a lot of these things that Mary’s talking about that have happened in her church. Julie Roys: I’m sure there’s people listening, and they’re like, okay, that sounds really, really awful. But how do you know when you hit that tipping point? Because I remember talking to you a couple of years ago and me going, Hey, is this really your pastor? I’m seeing some stuff. How is this your pastor? And you’re like we’re serving, and we love our life group. I get it. I totally, totally get it. But how did you and Patrick, how did you get to the point where you’re like, this is the tipping point, no more? Mary DeMuth: We decided we went into this together, so we decided that we both had to have the same decision. We weren’t going to have one of us leave and one not leave. We were going to do this together. So that took a year of a lot of conversations. And we saw those red flags when you saw them. So we’ve seen them, but as you mentioned, the model of Lake Point used to be, it seems to be shifting now, but it used to be church within a church. And so your life group was really basically what you’re doing, Julie. It’s a small gathering of people where there is someone who teaches, and there’s someone who’s the missions coordinator. And there’s someone who, it’s that’s how, like your church is that group. And so we felt a deep, strong connection to our group. And we felt like we were the pastors of that church within a church. Mary DeMuth: The model has shifted. And I don’t know, it has never been articulated publicly, but it seems from the exterior looking in that it’s more becoming a franchise model, which is where you create this mother church, and it can be duplicated like MacDonald’s in any context. Therefore they may not have that idea that it is church within a church anymore. It has to be something replicatable on all other campuses. And so we began to see this shifting of, this is no longer church within a church, which is really what kept us there. We had people we were serving. And then honestly, I just couldn’t stomach sermons anymore. I couldn’t walk into that building anymore. Mary DeMuth: And as everything became a spectacle the longer we were there, it was all about Sunday morning and the spectacle that it had become like a circus, and I could not find Jesus there. And I would sit in the audience. We had beautifully. articulated and performed auto-tuned worship. It was beautiful. It sounded amazing. There was a lot of rah-rah-rah. There was a lot of energy and it felt like Ichabod to me, like to me as a Christ follower, a mature Christ follower of many years, I couldn’t feel the presence of the Lord anymore. And for me, that’s what is the point of going to a church, if that has happened to you? Mary DeMuth: I’m not saying that other people aren’t experiencing the Lord there. I’m not saying that other people aren’t becoming Christians there. They are. And that’s probably the most problematic part of this whole thing is that they are easily able to point to numbers that are flowing in through the front door, ignoring all of us that have left out the back door. Mary DeMuth: And because it is successful, therefore they can just call me names and malign me or people like Amanda and others, and they can dismiss us because look what God is doing. Julie Roys: And Amanda talked about that same thing about the church within a church and even how each of the churches had different women’s ministries. Julie Roys: And I think about it, it was so personal because people are different and they all had different campuses, have different makeup, they have different cultures and now, this franchise model where you go in, you order a Big Mac, and you get a Big Mac. That’s what you’re used to, right? Julie Roys: But is it? And probably our conversation today, we probably don’t have enough time to really delve into this, but this is something I have been thinking more and more about, is it even church if you have a place where it, maybe a Christian organization and maybe a Christian organization that blesses a lot of people but is it a church where you say to members of the body, we don’t need you, we don’t need your gift, and you can’t serve here? If we have a pastor who doesn’t even know people’s names, if we don’t have that kind of shepherding, is it even a church anymore? Mary DeMuth: I’ll back up before I answer that in that I’ve, been overseas and, anyone that’s been overseas and gone to a McDonald’s overseas knows they have different categories. So even franchises like McDonald’s in France has McWine, right? Or McVine. McDonald’s even understands contextualizing the hamburger to the person, and to the people. So that’s an odd thing for me that there would be this idea that you can just, this is the model and we’re superimposing it on all sorts of different economic people and people in different cultures, and we’re just gonna superimpose it there, which seems super weird to me. Mary DeMuth:  On the, is this a church? We have to just go back to simplicity, which is, are we celebrating the Lord’s Supper? Are there sacraments there? Is the word of God being delivered and is it? Mary DeMuth: And then deeper than that, are  disciples being made? because there’s a big, huge difference between converts who hear something. And I think about the parable of the soils, they hear it, they receive it with joy, they have no root and then they walk away. We’re not teaching a theology of suffering in most of these bigger churches for sure. Mary DeMuth: But I think we need to remember that a church is supposed to be a place of koinonia, a place of fellowship, a place where we are iron sharpening iron, and a place of discipleship where people are not just converted, but they are just doing the slow work of people pouring into each other’s lives. That’s discipleship. That’s not a top-down model. That’s not pastor to congregation. That’s person to person. And when a church gets so big for its britches these things can fall through the cracks. Mary DeMuth: Now, Lake Point had done a very good job of doing that discipleship piece through their vehicle of a life group. But as things have shifted, we’re seeing a lot less of that. And again, I haven’t been there for six months, so they could be doing it. I don’t know, but just from my perspective today that’s something that’s been difficult to see. Julie Roys: You alluded to this earlier, this idea of leaving well. It’s hard to leave well and even to define what leaving well is. I will say there was one church that my husband and I ended up leaving and it was over a theological disagreement that we just felt we couldn’t bend on. And at the same time, we felt really pulled to another church. They actually had us come up and explain why we were leaving and gathered around us and prayed for us. Julie Roys: That was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen where it was just like, differences and God makes calling you here. We want to bless you as you go. And you’ve met a lot to this church and we mean a lot to each other and let’s just bless each other. It was so beautiful, and I don’t know why this can’t happen more. But usually it’s just a lot of pain and a lot of heartache And when you talk about leaving well, what it usually means to a lot of people, and I’ve heard even Christian leaders talk about this. When you leave well, you just keep your stuff to yourself. Julie Roys: The issues that you had, you suck them under, and you don’t speak about it. And honestly, I think that’s part of our problem in the church is that we don’t talk about our problems. And so we wait till they become a major scandal or crisis. And then they really blow up. And we allow abusive pastors just kind of reign; to continue doing what they’re doing. Julie Roys: So talk about this concept of leaving well. Obviously, you’ve chosen to speak rather boldly about what happened there. I think really from a heart of love and concern for both the church and the people there, not just to vent how you’re feeling. But talk about that and how you’ve come to the decision you have about that. Mary DeMuth: First, I’ll say there’s been kind of  an unholy silence. We were pretty high up and we have not been followed up with, and the very few times we were invited into those spaces, it was difficult. So there is that. I would encourage church leaders to do what your former church did, because I think there’s a lot to be learned. Mary DeMuth: I also need to say that we didn’t leave from a position of canceling and of immaturity. There’s one thing if you’re like a church hopper and you’re like, just running around with a consumeristic mindset like, what do I get in this for me? A lot of people that are leaving churches are being accused of being that. But the ones that I know that have left this church are mature, deep believers in Christ who are seeing so many red flags. Mary DeMuth: And the reason I articulated it was because I was running into people who were brokenhearted and didn’t have words for it. And somehow through the grace of God and through his power and his ability, I was able to say the things that people were feeling so that they would no longer feel alone. I would rather have been silent if the Lord hadn’t put his hand on me. Mary DeMuth: I would rather grieve this alone and quietly, but I have seen a lot of really good conversation and ministry happen because of this. I’m not out to harm the reputation of the church. I will never tell someone to leave a church unless they’re being abused, obviously, that’s their own decision. Mary DeMuth: They have the autonomy to make that decision between them and God. But I do want to be a listening ear and an empath for those who are bewildered at the church they’re going to that no longer looks like the church they used to go to. Julie Roys: So tell me what is gossip because this is what is, this is the word, I’ve gotten called this myriads and myriads of times. But what is gossip? And clearly you don’t believe this falls into that category. Why? Mary DeMuth: It’s not gossip to share your emotions about how you’re reacting to an abuse. That is actually being a lot like Paul. And if you look at the letters throughout the epistles in particular, you see Paul saying things about churches. Mary DeMuth: And so if we’re going to talk about gossip, we’d have to call him a gossip because he was constantly calling out, Hey, listen, those Judaizers, they don’t really have it right. Oh, listen, this Gnosticism isn’t good. And that guy’s having sex with his mother-in-law. These kinds of things are, he’s very clear. Mary DeMuth: These are not untrue things he’s saying. These are actually true statements. And underneath all of that is a desire for the church to be the body of Christ and to be holy. It’s not slander because it’s telling the truth. And it’s always with a desire to see God do good work in the local church. And if she is straying, if you love her, you will say something about it. Mary DeMuth: Now there’s a manner in which you can do that. You can be really caustic. You can speak the truth without love, but we are called to speak the truth with love. And I believe that we have conflagrated speaking the truth in love with gossip, and those are two different things. Gossip intends to harm the reputation of another or of an entity; telling the truth in love tries to help that institution have a mirror and see what’s going on. Julie Roys: The motive is really important, although I always get frustrated when people try to judge other people’s motives because the truth is, you don’t know somebody else’s heart. And that’s something I never do. I’ll talk about actions, but I don’t know someone’s heart. Only God knows the heart. But I know that’s something I constantly check myself about is my desire for repentance? is my desire to see these leaders repent? 100 percent, and I know you well enough to know that you would be absolutely thrilled and would extend grace if the leaders who have hurt you so deeply would repent of their sin and would change their ways. I know that and I’m sure you pray for that, that you and Patrick are praying right now for that. Am I right? Mary DeMuth: Absolutely. That is  underneath all of this, is just a desire to see the local church healthy and to see her lift up the name of Jesus. And we also just want to again put up a mirror of is this representing the kingdom of God or is this representing something else? And that’s what we were coming to find. Patrick and I both were. The kingdom’s upside down. It’s counterintuitive. It’s the least is the most. And the most is the least. It’s not about building platforms. It’s not about being the winner. It’s not about Christian nationalism. It’s none of these. I don’t even like those two words together. Mary DeMuth: It’s not about power. Jesus willingly laid down his power and he considered equality with God, not something to be grasped. He made himself nothing. And when I see a lot of these big churches and not all of them, but a lot of them where it is very male leader centric celebrity driven. And really about, we want to be the coolest people with the biggest numbers. Mary DeMuth: I don’t get it. They’ll point to Acts chapter two. They’ll talk about how many were added to the kingdom on that day. They’ll call that a mega church. It was not a mega church. People were still meeting in homes. So we just have to be careful. I’m not against mega churches. I actually think that there’s a place for them. Mary DeMuth: Over the years, they we have had the benefit of a megachurch that can go into a community and say, oh, you need a church building, here you go. Like they can do some things that a littler church can’t do. So I’m not against the megachurch, but there is something fallible in the model, the consumeristic model, that is causing all of this anguish. Julie Roys: And I’d say the leadership model. Because we have imported a leadership model that’s of the world and done the exact opposite of what Jesus said, don’t be like the Gentiles who lorded over them, but instead, whoever wants to be first should be last, whoever wants to be greatest should be least. Julie Roys: It is the upside-down kingdom, and we’ve forgotten that. We’ve become just like the world, and we count our success the same way as the world. And we’ve seen this going, it’s been going on a very long time, and I think the megachurches get a lot of the criticism because they’ve. been kind of doing it in spades in an awful lot of them and then exporting these values to all the smaller churches who are wannabes, right? Julie Roys: So you even have smaller churches that are trying to do the exact same thing and they think it’s right because it’s successful very much in the American model of success, which is bigger and better. Before we go forward, there is something I do want to ask you, though, and I would be remiss if I didn’t. What was it about what you and Patrick that you were doing that they didn’t want you serving? Mary DeMuth: I don’t know. They just didn’t want us. That’s what’s been hard is, it’s a speculative, I just don’t know. And I’m willing to be talked to about those things, of course. Like if they feel like something that we’re not godly enough or we’re, or I’m too public or whatever it is, I don’t know. Mary DeMuth: But I do know this, I do know this. When we were told this, what we learned was that they had been morphing from a church that had a lot of lay leaders to a higher control situation where only people who are employed by the church could be in charge of ministries. And so, you can control that. If you can control someone's salary, you can control the whole thing. Mary DeMuth: And so we were just told there is no place for you because we’re not on staff. So that’s probably my guess at a reason is that we were not controllable. And the statement made to us is I’ve got 30 other people just like you that are well trained and that have gone, my husband went to seminary, and all that, but will never use them. We will never use them. And basically, you just need to get over it. You will never be used. Julie Roys:  What a waste of resources. Unbelievable. The kingdom is not so well resourced that we don’t need every single person; that God didn’t give gifts every single one of them to be used. Julie Roys: But I will say, I’ve seen this happen before. And the beautiful thing is, people get dispersed, people like yourself and like Patrick, too often churches that are very needy very welcoming. Like Oh, thank God. It’s like Christmas come early, come to Moots, come to our church. And I’m sure you’re experiencing that because I can’t imagine not wanting you and Patrick at my church. It’s just shocking to me. But yeah, that is a benefit of it. It’s the church in Jerusalem getting persecuted. Then they went to the ends of the earth, and we can do that. Julie Roys: One of the things that I’ve seen be a silver lining, if you can call it that, in these sorts of situations is you’re a church refugee, but there’s a lot of other ones out there, too. And there can be a great deal of deep fellowship. And, in many ways, that’s what RESTORE is. It’s a gathering of a lot of not just refugees, a lot of helpers and pastors and people who are allies who just want to know more. But. There’s an awful lot of us there that have been hurt by the church, and there’s just this beautiful, sweet fellowship. Julie Roys: And my understanding is, and Amanda alluded to it in our last podcast, that you guys have served as pastors to these refugees. Would you talk about that sweet group that you were able to love on and pastor through this and just help them? Mary DeMuth: Yeah, we definitely were praying, and we just kept coming upon people. And in particular, people who had been employed but had been harshly fired in very traumatic ways. And we just felt so deeply. I mean for us, it’s sad and we were highly involved and it’s sad, but it wasn’t our job. And so we just had this empathy for those folks. And so we gathered as much as we knew, we put the word out quietly. Mary DeMuth: We gathered people for several weeks and met with them. And these were people that some were still there, and some were not, and some were walking away from Jesus. It was just the whole gamut of a wide variety of people in a lot of pain. And what we wanted to do was just to help them know our first session was called, You are not crazy. We just wanted them to know. that what they had seen and experienced was real and validated by the rest of us. And then we’ve just been walking through Chuck DeGroat's information about narcissism in the church and narcissistic church systems. And then talking about what is a safe person and what is a safe system. And then praying and crying and grieving and giving people the space that they are not allowed to have to get out all this junk that’s inside of us because it’s been so, so painful. Julie Roys: And I want to get to the safe system and the safe person, because I’m sure there’s a lot of people listening who would like that information as well. Julie Roys: But let’s talk about the feelings first, because when this happens, there is. Again, we talked about bewilderment. There’s just this mix of negative emotions that you don’t know what to do with a lot of times. One is anger and anger in the church has been one of these emotions that we just don’t deal with very well. And I’ve said this numerous times, but this is one that we’ll get. We’ll get thrown back in my face and people say, you sound like you’re angry and I’m like, darn I’m angry. Why aren’t you angry? Why wouldn’t we be angry when these awful things are happening in the church? And yet again, as a Christian, we feel guilty when we’re angry. So how have you dealt with your own anger, and helped others who are dealing with similar anger? Mary DeMuth: The first thing that we did was we process outside of the circle of the church because we needed to know if we were going crazy. Is this normal? Are these things that we’re saying? Is it a big deal? Or are we just being babies? We definitely did that. And then it’s been the prayer of let this anger fuel something beautiful, because I do believe that great movements of God happen because there’s injustice and we are angry at the injustice. Mary DeMuth: I often joke that I write a book when I’m angry, so I must be a pretty angry person at book 52. There’s injustice in this world and our God is righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne. When we do the work of making note of people who are being hurt and oppressed and harmed, we are doing the Lord’s work. And so that anger can be a fuel to doing positive things Mary DeMuth:. Now, I also just want to say, it’s okay to be angry. I’m angry and I have been angry and I’m processing that with friends and I’m processing it with my husband and with the Lord. Rightfully so, because I see so many people, to use Mark Driscoll’s frustrating phraseology, the people behind the bus. I’m meeting so many people behind the bus that are getting the bus is backing up over the people. Because not only cause when if you say anything, if you dare to say anything, you will get run over again and again, you will be accused of all sorts of things when really your desire is to see people set free and to open the eyes of people that are being harmed so that they no longer have to be in that system anymore. Julie Roys: And what a great deal of fear these leaders must feel. to behave that way that you have to annihilate people who say anything negative. I’ve gotten quite comfortable with people saying negative things. I just want to make sure if there’s truth in it, that I take it to heart. It’s okay, but in the end of the day, you’ve got to be okay with who you are before your Lord. And those closest to you who will tell you the truth when you’re veering off. That desire to control that desire that you have to shut down negative communication. I can’t imagine living in that much fear that you constantly are doing that. And yet that’s what we see. Julie Roys: And that whole thing about feeling like you’re crazy. So much of that’s because you’ve been told you’re crazy. You’ve been told that because that’s the gaslighting that happens when you say there’s a problem. No, there is no problem. You’re the problem. Mary DeMuth: It’s back to the emperor with no clothes. We all see the naked emperor and only a little kid says he’s not wearing any clothes. And we’re like Oh, yeah, but there’s this like kind of delusional thing or czarist Russia, the Potemkin village. If you know what that is, it was a village that was just set up like a movie set so that when the czar went by he could see that this Potemkin’s village was actually a really cool place, but you open the door, you walk through, it’s just mud and dirt on the other side and some horses grazing in a field. Church is not a Potemkin village. It should never be. It should not be a facade that we are trying to hold up by shaming people who say negative things. The church is a living, breathing organization. It is the body of Christ. Mary DeMuth: God does not need to be defended. He can do just fine by himself. And this fear that you talk about is very real because it’s about human empire. Whenever we build our Roman empire on our cult of personality and our particular views about things and not on the word of God and not on studying the word of God, then we will be threatened by anyone who says anything negative because that will eat away at the foundation of our FACO empire. Julie Roys: Very well said. That is very well said. Let’s talk about grief. And I was reminded of the Kubler Ross Stages of grief. And let me see. Those are denial, which is often where we start, right? When things go wrong, anger, the bargaining we can work this out somehow, right? Depression and sink into that deep depression. This is just so sad. And then there’s acceptance, which is that last one. And it’s not like these are completely linear because what I found is you go through, oh, I’ve worked through to acceptance. No, I haven’t. I’m back at anger again. Julie Roys: Something will happen. it'll put you right back there. So it’s not completely linear, but how have you moved toward acceptance? What does acceptance look like? And maybe that’s a long way off but talk about where you’re at in that whole process. Mary DeMuth: I think a lot of people are in this space. There’s a lot of loyal people and that’s where the bargaining comes in. And a lot of the people I’ve talked to are like, yeah, I never go to that church anymore, like to the services, but I’m here because of my small group and they’re my church. There’s this, that we were in that space for a really long time. We can make this work. This is our church, not that other part is not the church, but it’s all together. Mary DeMuth: So once we got to the decision and made the decision, then the depression set in for sure. And I think I’m still there working my way through it of thinking that I was going to be there the rest of my life. As a person who grew up in a really difficult home and met Jesus at 15 years old, the church became my family. My family was not my family. And the church was the one place where I could go to be loved, to be healed, to be worked, just to work through my salvation with fear and trembling. And so, to walk away from something that you’ve been at the most we’ve ever been at a church is 23. This is the longest we’ve ever been somewhere to walk away from. It felt like I lost my limb. I lost my family, my father’s in the faith, my mother’s in the faith, my aunts, and my uncles in the faith. And then to be villainized for just having eyes to see what the heck is going on, has been devastating, devastating. So I’m still in the grief phase and I don’t cry much about it because I’ve sometimes just shoved it way down deep because I did not ever expect that I was going to have to leave a place I loved so much. Julie Roys: There’s a, I think it’s a short story and I should know the name of it, but it’s about someone, a man who goes to a cemetery and he sees a woman just weeping and weeping, and he’s there to visit his partner who had died. I don’t think he had actually married her. But he realizes in that moment that the person who’s grieving, who’s crying and just sobbing is the richer person. Because they had loved deeply and he had never loved that deeply. And I’ve thought about that, I lost my mother over 20 years ago and she was so special and I never like, I hear some people talk about their mothers, and how difficult or what I never felt that way. My mother was just a joy, but it was so hard to lose her, but it was hard because I loved her so much. Julie Roys: And I think, I’m so grateful for you that you did have that church experience where you were loved so deeply, where you loved deeply, and I’ve got to believe that God will provide that family again. It will be different. And I know I just feel so blessed by our church family that we found in this wasteland or out of the wasteland. Julie Roys: But it’s been really, really special because I don’t have to explain anything to these people. They understand the world I work in. They understand. It’s just, it’s really been a gift. And I think it’s been a gift too. And I know you have adult children. I’m glad I had these adult children because they’re a blessing in ways that they couldn’t be and a support in ways that they couldn’t be when they were younger, when we had to be everything to them. Julie Roys: And I’m glad I’m not dealing with, and I know a lot of people are,  is what do we do for our kids now? And then there’s that pressure to find something for your children right away. And that makes it really hard. But as believers, we are taught, Hebrews 10:25, let us not give up meeting together as some are in the habit of doing, but all the more as the day of the Lord approaches, let us encourage each other and all the more as the day approaches. I have found sometimes that can be used as a club against people who are just grieving, and they’re dealing with a great deal of betrayal trauma at this point. Julie Roys: And now we’re going to hit them over the head and say, you better be in church on Sunday. When they walk into a church and it just triggers, it’s a trigger for them. I believe in fellowship. I believe in the church. I love the church, but I am concerned about the process of helping people reengage after they’ve been wounded so profoundly. Julie Roys: So speak to this process of finding a new church home, or even having the freedom for a period of time to say, I don’t know. I don’t know that I can do that right now. Obviously, there is a danger if we’re out of fellowship for too long. But speak to that person who right now is outside of fellowship and really afraid to reengage with it. Mary DeMuth: Yeah. First, you’re super normal. And if you’ve been wounded in a terrible community, the stakes are pretty high, when you walk in, especially if you’re triggered or traumatized by walking into a building. I don’t know that I could walk into a big church right now. Like I just don’t think I could, I think I would have a hard time with that. Mary DeMuth: So for us, how we went about it and everyone’s going to be different, we did want to land somewhere because we just feel like we’re in that stage of, we want to serve the church. And so for our little parameters, and I think it’ll be different for every person. Ours was, it needs to be local. And we’re hoping that there will be people there already that we’re friends with. Mary DeMuth: And since we’re in a little town, right? So there’s, 1 billion churches and little towns in Texas, right? So we had plenty to choose from so many, and we didn’t even get to all of them, but that was our parameter in choosing a home. In fact, we just officially joined a church yesterday. So it did take some time to get to that place. But I just want to let you know that it’s normal to be scared, to be triggered, to be in pain. Mary DeMuth: Don’t let it stay there. You are wounded in a negative community and the Lord is very frustrating and he asks you to be healed in good community. That’s hard. But a relational wound requires a relational cure, and that’s one reason why Patrick and I have been pouring into people who are hurt because we want to be that safer relationship for people to be falling apart or hurting or ask really blunt questions and be really ticked off. Because I believe people are healed in community when they’re wounded in community. Julie Roys: 100%. And I know when I came through just so much grief and pain and church hurt. I know a lot of people go to therapy and I’m not against therapy, but I was like, I don’t need to talk to this about this with a counselor. It’s just not like that. I need to be in a community where there’s love. I need to see beauty in people like again. And even though I’m afraid to be vulnerable on some levels at the same time, I’m compelled to be vulnerable because I know until you do that, you can’t heal. Mary DeMuth: When we met with the person who became our pastor and there’s a multiplicity of pastors in this particular denomination, but we sat across from him and we told him our story and he just listened, and he dignified the story. And then he said this, he said, we just want to love you. And I just immediately just, I was like, what? you don’t want to use me? Cause we’ve been in leadership positions in the church for so long, our whole adult lives we’ve been in those positions and for him to say, we just want to love you. And that was foreign to me, but that was the beginning of that healing journey. Julie Roys: I had a pastor at one of the churches we visited when we were in this search process. And it was at a very large church I would say it’s probably a megachurch, and we sat across from him and he said a very similar thing. It was really wonderful. And he said, “I think you guys have been wounded deeply, and you need a place to heal. And we do just want to love you. What was interesting is when I came back to him with a follow up email, because part of me is like wait, this is a megachurch. Am I insane? Julie Roys: I’m just like looking at it and being like,  I don’t think this is at all what I want. And then I emailed him. I said, we want a pastor. Would you be able to pastor us? And then he basically declined as nicely as he could; like I’d love to be, but I can’t and I’m like I don’t need a small group leader to try and pastor me. I was just kind of like of course, you can’t because you have the corporation to run. And so that is again a fundamental issue that I do have with the mega church. Julie Roys: One thing I found and I see it here, because I don’t know how many people in the Chicago area who have left Willow Creek and ended up at Harvest. They’re like, wow, di I know how to pick them! They’re going from something that’s become familiar. And if you became a believer at Willow, then that big model, that big service, whiz bang entertaining sermon or inspirational talk, whatever you want to call it. Julie Roys: Although I’ll say at Harvest, he preached he discipled people. I know a lot of people from Harvest that were discipled shockingly by a really depraved pastor. But I see them going from what they’re used to. And it’s almost like when I see people who grew up in a dysfunctional home and thank God you didn’t do this, but they often then replicate that in their own home, or they’re attracted to that same kind of dysfunction in the next home. Julie Roys: And I’ve seen it with churches and I’m just like, why are you going to the same model of church that you just left? And I see that there’s this thought in their head that it’s just the one bad apple. That’s all it is. It’s the one bad apple, but basically there’s nothing wrong with the system. Julie Roys: I think there’s something fundamentally wrong with the system. So speak to that. Do you think, I know you’ve got some pretty strong opinions now about celebrity megachurches, even though you said some megachurches we’ve seen work. Do you have some thoughts about the model of church and what makes a safe church? Mary DeMuth: Yes. So many thoughts. I’ll start with a story. In the early two thousand, I went to my first Christian writers conference before I was published and on the airplane on the way there, my story flashed before my eyes and I said, Lord I’ve withstood a lot of trials. Like I’ve gone through a lot of trials. Mary DeMuth: And he said clearly to me, you have withstood many trials, but will you withstand the trial of notoriety? And that has stayed in my mind all these years because fame emaciates, fame makes you think that you’re better than other people and that people exist to serve you rather than you equipping the saints for the work of service. Mary DeMuth: And when the systems are in a place, typically what happens is the ego takes over. There’s something deep within the narcissistic system. And in the narcissistic pastor, they have this wound that they can’t fill except by acclaim. And then it’s like a drug, so they have to keep being acclaimed. They cannot have negative things said about them. Mary DeMuth: Therefore, the next thing they’ll do is they will dismantle the elder board, or they will significantly reduce the influence of the elder board that exists or completely dismantle it altogether. They will gather yes-men around themselves who will only say positive things to them that are not in their context that cannot see them do the bad things And who are other megachurch pastors. So there’s just this like cabal of megachurch pastors that are sitting on each other’s boards saying you can do whatever you want and have fun. Mary DeMuth: That system is ungodly and that will cause the fall of many leaders, which we have already seen over and over and over. It’s like a broken record of sameness. It keeps happening. Why? Because I think we are creating a church structure from a pyramid, which if you look in the Bible, the Israelites left Egypt, but were still looking back at it. One person at the top, one Pharaoh at the top, one supreme ruler, and then everybody has to fit into that system underneath that pyramid. Mary DeMuth: Whereas the kingdom of God is the opposite of that. It’s an inverted pyramid. The kingdom is of people that are last to are not acknowledged. And I think we’re going to be super surprised at where they are standing in line and the new heavens and the new earth, the people with all the acclaim are going to be way at the back. The people that nobody knew about that were silently and quietly serving the Lord are going to be at the front of the line. And we’re going to say, tell me your story, I want to learn from you. Mary DeMuth: But these structures cause the downfall of many men who do not have the character to hold up that structure. They’ve been given leadership responsibility without having maturity, and therefore they are stealing sermons. They are harming people with their words. They are demonizing others. They are all sorts of things you talked about last week. They’re doing those things because they have to keep their empire because their ego needs it so badly. Julie Roys: And the other thing is, and we can’t really even go into this, although I know you see this too, because you run your own literary agency, is that the evangelical industrial complex needs these celebrity pastors to function. So they need the publishing companies need the celebrities so that they can publish them, so that the megachurches need the celebrity to fuel their model of that great attractional speaker that can be everything. Which again, does just feed into the narcissism and it attracts the narcissism. Julie Roys: We like the narcissist. And the whole entire moneymaking empire runs on these narcissists and these celebrity pastors. And so it’s not just even the pastor himself who needs to be a celebrity, but it’s this system that needs celebrities. And at some point, Mary we’ve got to deal with this and evangelicalism, or we’re just going to keep doing this over and over and over again. Mary DeMuth: And I believe the Lord is bringing judgment on those systems. And we’re seeing that in publishing as well. I think it’s a broken system. We make these requirements of how popular you are to be able to be an author. In the nineties and before, it was really about can you write a good book? Is it theologically sound? Do you have a good mind? Do you have a heart to minister to others? And now it’s how many social media followers do you have? Which is you can buy those. Mary DeMuth: So what does that even mean? I hate being a cog in the Christian industrial complex, both as an author and as a literary agent, but as an agent, I feel like I’m championing projects that would otherwise not get sold. That are more global voices people that are marginalized and not often given a voice. So that’s why I have a literary agency. Cause I’m trying to have those voices platformed. Julie Roys: Before you go, I want to ask you also about, we’ve talked a little bit about a safe church, but what makes somebody a safe person as you’re trying to process this? Mary DeMuth: A safe person is someone who doesn’t speak initially, who is an active listener. Who doesn’t jump to conclusions, who doesn’t feel the need to defend the church that you are leaving, who doesn’t say things like Hebrew says don’t forsake your assembling together. Those kinds of like cliche, like super cliche oh, you better do this instead of just meeting you in your grief. Mary DeMuth: A safe person doesn’t try to change your state. They come alongside you into your state and they weep alongside. And that to me is so powerful. People won’t remember what you said, but they will remember that you were there with them in the pain. And we’re just willing to say, yeah, that hurts. And, oh, that must’ve been very painful. Just that empathy piece. Julie Roys: And they won’t shame you for deconstructing. They’ll walk with you; they’ll allow you to process. And I hate that when I see that. I see it on social media all the time, people denigrating people who are deconstructing and I’m like, maybe if you didn’t do that, maybe they wouldn’t be walking away from their faith. But again, deconstructing, I think takes a lot of different forms. I think for a lot of people that have gone through it; they’ve come back to a richer faith that stripped of maybe some of the baggage that they had previously. Julie Roys: Before I let you go, because I know a lot of people listening are in this place of just really, really  struggling and in a lot of hurt. And I know you have names and faces for those people too. Would you be willing to just pray for them and what they’re going through right now? Mary DeMuth: I will. And I’m just going to mention, I have a free resource, MARYDEMUTH.COM/CHURCHHURT. And it’s a hundred statements about things that people feel when they’re going through church hurt so that you can share it with a friend and check off the ones that are you, and then have a good conversation about it. Julie Roys: Wonderful. What a great resource. Thank you. Mary DeMuth: Yeah. Okay. Let me pray. Lord, thank you for loving the least of these. Thank you for leaving the 99 and chasing the one. Thank you for being counterintuitive. Thank you for the Sermon on the Mount. Thank you for your grace being sufficient for us and your power is made perfect in our weakness. Mary DeMuth: Lord, forgive us for these systems where we are worshiping strength, power, and numbers when that’s nothing to do with your kingdom. Reorient our lives and our hearts to what is your kingdom. Help us to hear your voice in the midst of the madness and the muddledness of what this has become. I pray that you would send friends to my friends who are suffering in the aftermath of spiritual abuse and church hurt. Mary DeMuth: I pray for hope Lord in these kinds of situations, it can feel like a death, and it feels very hopeless and sad. I pray for comfort and pray all of this in your beautiful name, Jesus. Amen. Julie Roys: Amen. Mary. Thank you so much. And how beautiful that even in this you are ministering to others through it. So I am just so grateful for you and for Patrick and for what you bring to the kingdom. And thank you so much for being willing to talk so vulnerably and bravely. So thank you. Mary DeMuth: Thank you. Julie Roys: And thanks so much for listening to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys, and I want to invite all of you to our next Restore Conference in Phoenix in February 2025. Julie Roys: This is one of the most healing gatherings I know of, where you won’t just hear from amazing folks like Mary DeMuth and Scott McKnight, author of A Church Called Tove, and Dr. David Pooler, an expert in adult clergy sexual abuse. But you’ll also meet lots of other people who have gone through similar experiences, and I’ve found that just being in that kind of community is so healing. Julie Roys: And so powerful. So please come. I would love to meet you there. To find out more information, just go to RESTORE2025.COM. Also just a quick reminder to subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube. That way you won’t miss any of these episodes. And while you’re at it, I’d really appreciate it if you’d help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review. Julie Roys: And then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. Again, thanks so much for joining me today. Hope you were blessed and encouraged. 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