Podcast appearances and mentions of pat ogden

This episode is also on the IPH YouTube podcast.5D mystic POV stories on mindfulness, educational podcasts & being yourself

Esther Goldstein LCSW is a psychotherapist and trauma specialist with a private practice in Cedarhurst, in Long Island NY. Esther specializes in treating anxiety, trauma, complex ptsd, and dissociative disorders. Esther provides trauma informed consultation to therapists committed to improving their trauma-informed practice and attachment focused EMDR consultation to therapists attaining hours towards EMDRIA certification.               Elisa is an Emmy Award-winning journalist with over a decade of experience working with Anderson Cooper 360 and Good Morning America. Throughout her career, she has helped hundreds of survivors share their stories with renowned journalists including Diane Sawyer, Robin Roberts, and Anderson Cooper. Deeply committed to trauma healing, Elisa now offers media consulting with a focus on advancing trauma-informed journalism and guiding survivors as they navigate media exposure. In This EpisodeEsther's site:  https://integrativepsych.co/Elisa's: https://www.elisatoha.com You can learn more about what I do here:The Trauma Therapist Newsletter: celebrates the people and voices in the mental health profession. And it's free! Check it out here: https://bit.ly/4jGBeSaThe Trauma Therapist Podcast:  I interview thought-leaders in the fields of trauma, mindfulness, addiction and yoga such as Peter Levine, Pat Ogden, Bessel van der Kolk and Bruce Perry. https://bit.ly/3VRNy8zBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-trauma-therapist--5739761/support.

This episode is also on the IPH YouTube podcast.5D mystic POV stories on mindfulness, educational podcasts & being yourself

This episode is also on the IPH YouTube podcast.5D mystic POV stories on mindfulness, educational podcasts & being yourself

This episode is also on the IPH YouTube podcast.5D mystic POV stories on mindfulness, educational podcasts & being yourself

This episode is also on the IPH YouTube podcast.5D mystic POV stories on mindfulness, educational podcasts & being yourself

Dr. Hillary McBride is a registered psychologist, a researcher and podcastor, with expertise that includes working with trauma and trauma therapies, and embodiment, at the intersection of spirituality and mental health. Her recent book Holy Hurt: understanding and healing from spiritual trauma, came out in April 2025. Her podcast, Other People's Problems is incredible. Normally, therapy sessions are totally confidential — but this podcast opens the doors.This season offers an unprecedented look at psychedelic psychotherapy, breaking new ground in the podcast space and demystifying this often misunderstood practice as a powerful tool in trauma recovery.Hillary leads her clients through drug-assisted therapy, guiding them to new heights on their healing journeys. Experience these real, unscripted sessions firsthand as they unfold in each episode.She has been recognized by the American Psychological Association, and the Canadian Psychological Association for her research and clinical work. In addition to being a teaching faculty at the University of British Columbia, she is an ambassador for Sanctuary Mental Health, and the host of CBC's award winning podcast Other People's Problems- season 5 launched May 5 . Hillary can often be found with a cup of chai in hand, or by the ocean. She makes her home in the pacific northwest in British Columbia, Canada.In This EpisodeHillary's websiteOPP Podcast You can learn more about what I do here:The Trauma Therapist Newsletter: celebrates the people and voices in the mental health profession. And it's free! Check it out here: https://bit.ly/4jGBeSaThe Trauma Therapist Podcast:  I interview thought-leaders in the fields of trauma, mindfulness, addiction and yoga such as Peter Levine, Pat Ogden, Bessel van der Kolk and Bruce Perry. https://bit.ly/3VRNy8zBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-trauma-therapist--5739761/support.

Christina Kantzavelos is a neurodivergent, and first-generation (third culture) Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW), life coach, writer and chronic illness warrior.  She received both her BA and MSW from the University of California Los Angeles (UCLA) and her MLIS from San Jose State University (SJSU). She specializes in treating clients with chronic health conditions  (aka spoonies and medical refugees) and trauma (including medical trauma). Rick Doblin, Ph.D., is the Founder and President of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS). He received his doctorate in Public Policy from Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, where he wrote his dissertation on the regulation of the medical uses of psychedelics and marijuana and his Master's thesis on a survey of oncologists about smoked marijuana vs. the oral THC pill in nausea control for cancer patients.His undergraduate thesis at New College of Florida was a 25-year follow-up to the classic Good Friday Experiment, which evaluated the potential of psychedelic drugs to catalyze religious experiences. He also conducted a thirty-four year follow-up study to Timothy Leary's Concord Prison Experiment. Rick studied with Dr. Stanislav Grof and was among the first to be certified as a Holotropic Breathwork practitioner.His professional goal is to help develop legal contexts for the beneficial uses of psychedelics and marijuana, primarily as prescription medicines but also for personal growth for otherwise healthy people, and eventually to become a legally licensed psychedelic therapist. He founded MAPS in 1986, and currently resides in Boston with his wife and puppy, with three empty rooms from his children who have all graduated college and begun their life journeys. Learn more about Rick by listening to his Origin Story, watching his TED Talk, and watching his SSDP talk about lessons for political activism from a series of his psychedelic experiences. In This EpisodeChristina's websiteNeural Retraining informationConstructed AwarenessRick's InstagramMAPS WebsiteYou can learn more about what I do here:The Trauma Therapist Newsletter: celebrates the people and voices in the mental health profession. And it's free! Check it out here: https://bit.ly/4jGBeSaThe Trauma Therapist Podcast:  I interview thought-leaders in the fields of trauma, mindfulness, addiction and yoga such as Peter Levine, Pat Ogden, Bessel van der Kolk and Bruce Perry. https://bit.ly/3VRNy8zBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-trauma-therapist--5739761/support.

SYNOPSIS:This is a recording of one of our free, live Eventbrite sessions, where Ali Mezey was joined by Jane Peterson, PhD - and you, our audience - for a live, honest, body-centered conversation about the real work of being in relationship.(Yes, this episode includes live audience questions!)Together, we explore how our bodies carry old relational patterns - what Jane calls the "social soma" - and how these hidden imprints can shape the way we love, fight, and stay (or don't stay) connected.We talk about why love alone isn't always enough to align two people's lives, and why asking deeper, more honest questions early on matters so much.Jane shares practical ways to stay close even when life pulls you in different directions: evolving agreements, repairing after hurt, setting shared goals, and building intimacy that grows with you.We touch on marriage, infidelity, and non-traditional relationships with honesty and warmth, offering grounded advice for navigating real-world love.Whether you're partnered, single, or somewhere in between, this conversation will leave you with new ways to understand yourself, your relationships, and the deep intelligence of your body in all of it.To be an angel to the podcast, click hereTo read more about the podcast, click hereMORE ALI MEZEY:Website:  www.alimezey.comPersonal Geometry® and the Magic of Mat Work Course information:www.alimezey.com/personal-geometry-foundationsTransgenerational Healing Films: www.constellationarts.comMORE JANE PETERSON:Website: www.human-systems-institute.comContact: humansystemsinstitute@gmail.comBIO:Jane Peterson, PhD, is the co-founder and executive director of the Human Systems Institute, Inc. She is the originator of Somatic Imaging and the somatic-resonance approach to constellation work. Her work is internationally respected for being tailored to meet the high learning demands of adult professionals. She was a faculty member at the International Intensive Workshop on Systemic Resolutions in Bernreid, Germany for 9 years. Jane is an INFOSYON certified Master Trainer and has served as an advisor and author for the Knowing Field journal. She has taught systemic constellation work in Asia, South America, South Africa, Mexico, Canada, Europe, and the U.S.In 2005, she organized the first U.S. Conference in constellation work. Her Institute offers trainings in Somatic Imaging and systemic constellation work, including training in organizational constellations. The institute is currently offering it's seventeenth year of training programs.Jane started her professional career as an engineer and manager in a high tech firm (the first woman engineer hired into her department) and knows first-hand the demands placed on leaders in the corporate environment. In the course of becoming a constellation facilitator, she has also been a professional ceramic sculptor and ran her own fine arts studio, Laughing Bones, Inc.Jane is a master practitioner of Neuro-linguistic Programming, a Certified Clinical Hypnotherapist, a Certified Professional Behavioral Coach and a member of the American Counseling Association, VOIS, OHA, and ODN. She has studied Process Oriented Psychology with Arny Mindell and Max Schupbach, Group Dynamics with Michael Grinder, Peruvian energy healing with Don Amèrico Yàbar, Attachment and Trauma work with Dan Siegel and Diane Poole Heller, a Psycho-biological Approach to Couples Therapy with Stan Tatkin (Level 2), Coordinated Management of Meaning with Barnett Pearce, and continues to learn with other research-driven leaders in the fields of personal and social evolution. She holds a doctorate in Human and Organizational Systems from Fielding Graduate University, and has been a post-doctoral fellow of the Institute for Social Innovation.OTHER RESOURCES, LINKS AND INSPIRATIONS:Essential Skills for CouplesAdapting Systemic Constellations to OrganizationsHuman-Systems-InstituteBurt Hellinger: “caring for desire”Elaine Debutant: compatibility is actually an achievement of love, not a precondition.”SOCIAL SOMA - our body is shaped by our social relationshipsLALAGE SNOW:  We Are the Not Dead - photographerStan Tatkin - safety in relationship = taking care of each other. The Social BiomeTerry Real - The Social EcosystemEsther Perel: Mating in CaptivityArny Mindell, Sitting in the Fire: Large Group Transformation Using Conflict  and DiversityScience of TouchingEllyn Bader, the Initiator/Inquirer processStan Tatkin, In Each Other's Care: A Guide to the Most Common Relationship Conflicts and How to Work Through ThemTerry Real,

In this minisode, Ali guides you on a mini mapping experience to explore your heart/sexuality split - or un-split!Using her method, Personal Geometry® (explored in Episode 31 with Lauren Gleason) in mere minutes you will gain insights into what your present stance is in relation to your romantic heart and your sexuality - in relation to anyone or anything that is currently an issue for you.Find out what your body knows about it!In minutes, you'll see-feel what could help you understand, and live, a more harmonious relationship between these essential aspects of being - whether in relationship to someone else and/or yourself.MORE ALI MEZEY:Website:  https://www.alimezey.comPersonal Geometry® and the Magic of Mat Work Course information:https://www.alimezey.com/personal-geometry-foundationsTo book a session, email Ali at ali@alimezey.com

NEXT COHORT STARTS TOMORROW February 8th - Jump In!Personal Geometry® is a somatic and spatial practice that taps into the body's innate, felt-sense understanding of spatial relationships. This work can do so much so quickly. It's an amazing way to get you, your clients, your partner, other participants, to see and feel the body-truth of things in minutes. We are excited to share Personal Geometry Foundations with you as a practitioner discover how you can best tailor it to the disciplines you are already, or will be, practicing. This non-verbal, embodied approach provides a clear and immediate visual and visceral representation of a person's inner world, making it an invaluable tool for therapists, facilitators, and anyone seeking profound transformation.  A seven-week online class - perfect for therapists, sexologists, coaches, and healing practitioners. Foundations is the prerequisite for advanced classes on Sexuality and Addiction, and individuals seeking personal healing are welcome too!  PERSONAL GEOMETRY TRAININGSJoin the Next Personal Geometry® Foundations Class  (online over Zoom)Now enrolling - click here for more details. Next cohort starts February 8th, 2025.Our audience gets $250 off - just mention the show when contacting Ali. MORE ALI MEZEY:Website:  https://www.alimezey.comPersonal Geometry® and the Magic of Mat Work Course information:https://www.alimezey.com/personal-geometry-foundationsTransgenerational Healing Films: https://constellationarts.com/If you have any questions, email Ali at: ali@alimezey.com

Jen Warner, LICSW, LCSW, is one of those therapists, one of those individuals, who is so passionate about her work (and compassionate, as you'll hear in this interview!) that after listening to her, you walk away inspired. I certainly did.Jen is a Washington, Illinois, Oregon, and New York State licensed clinical social worker, and psychotherapist with advanced training and certification in trauma-informed care and the treatment of trauma, as well as holistic health and nutrition.Additionally, Jennifer has taught on the subject of abuse and trauma at the graduate social work schools of Portland State University and Columbia University. She has provided direct services to child and adult survivors of interpersonal violence, including domestic violence, sexual abuse, and gun violence. She has supervised clinicians and graduate students on the provision of trauma-informed care, and was the crime victim social worker at the largest public hospital in the South Bronx before moving to the Pacific Northwest.In This EpisodeJennifer's WebsiteContact JenniferTrauma and Recovery: The Aftermath of Violence--From Domestic Abuse to Political Terror, Judith L. HermanTrauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy, Pat Ogden, Kekuni Minton, Clare Pain---If you'd like to support The Trauma Therapist Podcast and the work I do you can do that here with a monthly donation of $5, $7, or $10: Donate to The Trauma Therapist Podcast.Click here to join my email list and receive podcast updates and other news.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-trauma-therapist--5739761/support.

In this episode I speak with Lisa, an accredited mental health social worker, psychotherapist, and author of Finding My Invisible Sun: Overcoming Trauma. Lisa has lived experience of trauma, mental illness and institutionalised discrimination and has practised therapy for a combined 15 years within a domestic and family violence prevention service and then as an accredited mental health social worker. Links to resources mentioned in this week's episode: Lisa's Points of Resistance Theory webinar on eiseEducation - https://www.trybooking.com/events/landing/1209211 Janina Fisher (and her book The Fragmented Self) - https://janinafisher.com/ Pat Ogden - https://sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org/therapist-directory/pat-ogden-phd/ Learning Emotion-Focused Therapy - https://www.apa.org/pubs/books/4317035 Bessel van der Kolk's The Body Keeps The Score - https://www.besselvanderkolk.com/resources/the-body-keeps-the-score EMDR Association of Australia - https://emdraa.org/ Lisa's book Finding My Invisible Sun - https://australianselfpublishinggroup.com/finding-my-invisible-sun/ This episode's transcript can be viewed here:  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tDX4X9nDpOkKhOf8gVPdcU5rPElTM1p36wnp7IR3iDk/edit?usp=sharing

When We Freeze: Understanding and Healing from Traumatic Shutdowns In this episode, MaryAnn Michaelis and Dr. Kevin Skinner discuss the profound impact of freezing as a response to trauma. They explore how life events, particularly those involving emotional or physical trauma, can leave individuals stuck, carrying the weight of unresolved experiences for decades. This discussion highlights how freezing, more than fight or flight, can be especially traumatizing, as it leaves the individual feeling helpless or numb. Dr. Skinner and MaryAnn delve into the psychological and somatic aspects of freezing, emphasizing the importance of creating a safe environment for healing and the steps necessary to get unstuck. Key Concepts Discussed: 1. The Freeze Response – A natural reaction to overwhelming events that can leave people stuck emotionally and physically. 2. Somatic Experience – How trauma manifests in the body, drawing on the works of Peter Levine and Pat Ogden. 3. Traumatic Reenactment – The concept that individuals may unconsciously seek to resolve past trauma by repeating harmful patterns. 4. Neuroplasticity and Action – Insights from neuroscience that emphasize taking action as a way to create new neural pathways and move forward from trauma. 5. Polyvagal Theory – Understanding the autonomic nervous system's role in traumatic responses, particularly the dorsal vagal shutdown, and its impact on emotional regulation. 6. Hope and Healing – The concept that learned helplessness can be unlearned, fostering hope and creating new possibilities for recovery. Resources Discussed: 1. Books:      - In an Unspoken Voice by Dr. Peter Levine      - The Body Keeps the Score by Dr. Bessel van der Kolk      - Hope Circuit by Dr. Martin Seligman      - Polyvagal Theory in Therapy by Deb Dana 2. Therapeutic Techniques:      - EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing)      - ART (Accelerated Resolution Therapy)      - Somatic experience exercises to release trauma stored in the body. 3. Tools for Self-Regulation:      - Creating a list of actions to take when feeling stuck (e.g., listening to music, breathing exercises, journaling).      - Co-regulation by reaching out to trusted individuals for support during moments of freeze. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own experiences with freezing, consider professional support, and take small steps toward action and healing.

Original air date: May 24, 2022 In this special episode of Lessons from the Playroom, Lisa Dion welcomes the amazing Dr. Bonnie Goldstein, a faculty member at Pat Ogden's Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute. Dr. Goldstein has uniquely applied Sensorimotor Psychotherapy to children, making her a pioneer in this field. Hear the delightful story of how Bonnie and Lisa met at the Australian Childhood Foundation's trauma conference in Melbourne in 2019, instantly connecting over dinner and sparking a meaningful professional relationship. Join Bonnie and Lisa as they discuss how to integrate the body into therapy practice to empower child clients, covering: Utilizing your own sense of self in client work through embedded relational mindfulness techniques. Understanding how the body influences the mind and combining mindfulness and body awareness to shift a client's narrative. Incorporating collaborative curiosity in therapeutic work with children. Techniques for helping clients reconnect with their bodies after trauma, including the "choo-choo train" activity. Reading the client's story through the aliveness of the body. Attuning to your own body to better attune to your client's body, recognizing the therapist's body as the most important "toy" in the room. You'll also hear numerous client stories illustrating how to incorporate sensorimotor work into your practice and get introduced to Bonnie's unique co-therapist who assists in her sessions. About Dr. Bonnie Goldstein: Dr. Goldstein is dedicated to fostering and healing relationships through attachment theory, somatic and mindful awareness, and group psychotherapy. She is the founder/director of the Lifespan Psychological Center and a faculty member at the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute. With several publications to her name, she is currently co-authoring a book on Sensorimotor Psychotherapy with Children with Pat Ogden, soon to be published by Norton Publishing. Tune in for an inspiring episode filled with practical insights and heartwarming stories that highlight the transformative power of sensorimotor psychotherapy in play therapy. Podcast Resources:  Synergetic Play Therapy Institute Synergetic Play Therapy Learning Website FREE Resources to support you on your play therapy journey  Aggression in Play Therapy: A Neurobiological Approach to Integrating Intensity * If you enjoy this podcast, please give us a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcast, subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, and invite your friends/fellow colleagues to join us.

Dr Pat Ogden is the creator of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Method, a pioneer in somatic psychology, an author, international lecturer and one of the leading voices revolutionising our approach to healing trauma. Her books include “Trauma and the Body”, “Sensorimotor Psychotherapy”, and “The Pocket Guide to Sensorimotor Psychotherapy in Context”, which advocates for an anti-racist perspective in psychotherapy practice. In this conversation, you'll learn: — What sensorimotor psychotherapy is, how it was developed and the foundational principles it is built upon. — Why the body is “a manifestation of the unconscious”, how each of our bodies tell a story and how to tune in to the story that your body might be telling you. — How relational misattunements in early life are stored somatically, and how the developing self is defined both by who our caregivers perceive us to be, and also who they deny us to be — The role our sociocultural context plays in our mental health and wellbeing. — The importance of taking an experiential approach to your therapeutic education. And more. You can learn more about Dr Ogden's work at: www.sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org. --- Pat Ogden, PhD, is a pioneer in somatic psychology, the creator of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy method, and founder of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute.  Dr. Ogden is trained in a wide variety of somatic and psychotherapeutic approaches, and has over 45 years of experience working with individuals and groups.  She is co-founder of the Hakomi Institute, past faculty of Naropa University (1985-2005), a clinician, consultant, and sought after international lecturer. Dr. Ogden is the first author of two groundbreaking books in somatic psychology: Trauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy  and Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment (2015) both published in the Interpersonal Neurobiology Series of W. W. Norton. Her third book in this series, The Pocket Guide to Sensorimotor Psychotherapy, published in 2021, and she is working on Sensorimotor Psychotherapy for Children, Adolescents and Families with Dr. Bonnie Goldstein. Her current interests include groups, couples, children, adolescents, and families; complex trauma; Embedded Relational Mindfulness; implicit bias, intersectionality and culture; the relational nature of shame; presence, consciousness, and the philosophical/spiritual principles that underlie Sensorimotor Psychotherapy. --- Interview Link: — The Pocket Guide to Sensorimotor Psychotherapy in Context: https://amzn.to/3yHyYnq 3 Books Dr Ogden Recommends Every Therapist Should Read: — The Pocket Guide to Sensorimotor Psychotherapy in Context - https://amzn.to/3EES0xB — The Body Keeps the Score - https://amzn.to/3GHsUkn — Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment - https://amzn.to/3guqET7

In this episode I speak with Brooke, a senior psychotherapist and Mental Health Social Worker specialising in trauma and attachment, child and youth mental health, perinatal mental health and family therapy. Brooke believes strongly in the healing power of nature and animals, and uses these principles as Director of a clinic near Brisbane offering Equine Facilitated Therapy, working from a body based trauma informed perspective. Links to resources mentioned in this week's episode: Milan Family Systems Therapy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZkhboTUS3s Vancouver Association for Survivors of Torture - https://www.vastbc.ca/ BC Centre for Ability - https://bc-cfa.org/ Australian National FASD Program - https://fare.org.au/fasd-program/ Professional Association for Equine Facilitated Wellness - https://www.equinefacilitatedwellness.org/ Therapy Well - https://www.therapywell.com.au/ Social Thinking - https://www.socialthinking.com/ Tara Brach's guided RAIN meditations - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytr1V1R1rOw&list=PLKVXvQ02E4wqYNDeDvB-V8uYCoDmGVZ-8 Diagnosis in developmental-behavioural paediatrics: the art of diagnostic formulation (O'Keeffe & Macauley) - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21790830/ Dyadic Developmental Psychotherapy - https://ddpnetwork.org/about-ddp/dyadic-developmental-psychotherapy/ The Theraplay Institute - https://theraplay.org/what-is-theraplay/ Pat Ogden's Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute - https://sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org/therapist-directory/pat-ogden-phd/ Dan Siegel - https://drdansiegel.com/ Guru Dudu's silent disco tours - https://www.gurududu.org/silentdisco/ This episode's transcript can be viewed here:  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RPy4sMMYDublukBAxmddHY1eXWeXxJuPpREnfpOCKwc/edit?usp=sharing

In this episode of Healing Trauma, Frank and Matthias delve into the second movement of trauma healing: "Leaning In." This episode explores the crucial aspect of trusting our inner wisdom as we navigate through trauma. Moving beyond simply acknowledging our responses and issues, we learn how to embrace our intuition and create safety both internally and in relationships. The discussion emphasizes the importance of reattuning to our wisdom and trusting ourselves to heal.Upcoming Events:To Be Loved: A Story of Truth, Trauma, and Transformation by Frank Anderson - OUT NOWLayers of Trauma: A Recorded Session Analysis, led by Ava Rose, LCSW & Pat Ogden, PhD hosted by the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute. Friday, May 10th, 2024.‘Applied Polyvagal Theory in Yoga: Gentle Practices for Vagus Nerve Stimulation' with Arielle Schwartz hosted by the Polyvalgal Institute. Thursday, May 16th, 2024. Join the Institute:Trauma Institute: @traumainstitute | traumainstitute.comFrank Anderson: @frank_andersonmd | frankandersonmd.comMatthias Barker: @matthiasjbarker | matthiasjbarker.com

To access our conference library of 200+ fascinating psychology talks and interviews (with certification), please visit: https://twumembers.com. Dr Janina Fisher is a licensed clinical psychologist and a former instructor at Harvard Medical School. Having trained directly with the likes of Bessel van der Kolk and Pat Ogden, she is now widely recognised as an international expert on the treatment of trauma. Janina is an Advisory Board member of the Trauma Research Foundation and the author of three books including, Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors, Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma, and The Living Legacy Instructional Flip Chart (2022). She is best known for her work on integrating mindfulness-based interventions into trauma treatment, and she is also the creator of Trauma-Informed Stabilization Treatment (TIST) therapy. In this conversation, we discuss: — Dr Fisher's experiences training with Bessel van der Kolk in the 1990s — The left and right brain "split", and how trauma gets stored in the body as implicit memories — The limitations of the "Uni-Consciousness" Model and why a parts paradigm is more effective for healing trauma — Why secure attachment is the number one variable in mental health and how to cultivate "earned secure attachment" internally And more. You can learn more about Dr Fisher's work at www.janinafisher.com. --- Janina Fisher, Ph.D. is a licensed clinical psychologist and a former instructor, Harvard Medical School. An international expert on the treatment of trauma, she is an Advisory Board member of the Trauma Research Foundation and the author of three books, Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors: Overcoming Self-Alienation (2017), Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma: a Workbook for Survivors and Therapists (2021), and The Living Legacy Instructional Flip Chart (2022). She is best known for her work on integrating mindfulness-based interventions into trauma treatment, and she is also the creator of Trauma-Informed Stabilization Treatment (TIST) therapy. Interview Links: — Healing the Fragmented Selves - Dr Janina Fisher: https://amzn.to/3ANKAGp — Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma: a Workbook for Survivors and Therapists - Dr Janina Fisher: https://amzn.to/3Blo1ux — The Living Legacy Instructional Flip Chart (2022): https://amzn.to/3cQbAx3 3 Books Dr Fisher Recommends Every Therapist Should Read: — Introduction to IFS - Dr Richard Schwartz: https://amzn.to/3qaOt3y — Healing the Fragmented Selves - Dr Janina Fisher: https://amzn.to/3ANKAGp — Getting Through The Day - Nancy Napier: https://amzn.to/3KJoiKu

Our latest guest on The MindHealth360 Show, Dr. Janina Fisher, one of the world's leading experts on treating trauma, explains the revolution in trauma treatment since Bessel van der Kolk's work, which showed that trauma is not in the event itself, but rather in the body's reaction to that event, which is stored in the body, the nervous system and the lower brain regions. This explains why talk therapy and CBT, which engage the brain's higher prefrontal cortex, so often fail to address the root causes of mental health issues and are blunt tools when it comes to successfully treating trauma.  She explains that when we have an emotional reaction to an event or a person, we may actually be having a “feeling memory”, reacting to an implicit memory from a childhood trauma rather than to the actual person or event in the present. And this memory can trigger our nervous system's animalistic response to an earlier threat – whether mammalian (fight/flight) or reptilian (freeze), in the present – dysregulating our nervous system and contributing to mental health symptoms such as depression, anxiety, panic, and lack of focus, memory and concentration. Dr. Fisher developed the groundbreaking TIST (Trauma Informed Stabilisation Treatment) to help heal trauma and educate and train trauma therapists around the world. Combining Dr. Dick Schwartz' IFS parts work with mindfulness, clinical hypnosis, and Pat Ogden's sensorimotor psychotherapy, her approach has proven very successful in sustainably treating trauma. Here she shares some key insights to help us understand the effects of trauma and nervous system dysregulation on our bodies, minds and behaviour, and gives us some top tips for recovery. Janina Fisher, Ph.D. is a licensed clinical psychologist and a former instructor at Harvard Medical School. An international expert on the treatment of trauma, she is an Advisory Board member of the Trauma Research Foundation and the author of three books, Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors: Overcoming Self-Alienation (2017), Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma: a Workbook for Survivors and Therapists (2021), and The Living Legacy Instructional Flip Chart (2022). She is best known for her work on integrating mindfulness-based interventions into trauma treatment, and she is also the creator of Trauma-Informed Stabilization Treatment (TIST) therapy.

Looking at how meditation and mindfulness practices are not a virtue in and of themselves, they may not be a good fit for your spiritual path and can heighten or enhance trauma if not engaged in with skilled support.Pat Ogden "Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment " https://amzn.to/43XdbWFBessel Van der Kolk "Overcoming Trauma Through Yoga: Reclaiming Your Body" https://amzn.to/477BjZ4David Treleaven "Trauma-Sensitive Mindfulness: Practices for Safe and Transformative Healing." https://amzn.to/3QdrzXuSupport the showSupport the Podcast: https://www.patreon.com/teriuktenaOnline Courses: https://www.akashicreading.com/online-courses/Live Classes: https://www.akashicreading.com/live-classes-come-join-us/Private Lessons: https://www.akashicreading.com/private_lessons_for_students/Have your own Akashic Reading: https://www.akashicreading.com/schedule-your-reading-today/

To access the full episode and our conference library of 200+ fascinating psychology talks and interviews (with certification), please visit: https://twumembers.com. In this episode, I'm joined by Dr Janina Fisher. Dr Fisher is a licensed clinical psychologist and a former instructor at Harvard Medical School. Having trained directly with the likes of Bessel van der Kolk and Pat Ogden, she is now widely recognised as an international expert on the treatment of trauma. Janina is an Advisory Board member of the Trauma Research Foundation and the author of three books including, Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors, Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma, and The Living Legacy Instructional Flip Chart (2022). She is best known for her work on integrating mindfulness-based interventions into trauma treatment, and she is also the creator of Trauma-Informed Stabilization Treatment (TIST) therapy. In this conversation, we discuss: — Dr Fisher's experiences training with Bessel van der Kolk in the 1990s — The left and right brain "split", and how trauma gets stored in the body as implicit memories — The limitations of the "Uni-Consciousness" Model and why a parts paradigm is more effective for healing trauma — Why secure attachment is the number one variable in mental health and how to cultivate "earned secure attachment" internally And more. You can learn more about Dr Fisher's work at www.janinafisher.com. --- This session was recorded as part of our Holistic Psychotherapy Summit in January 2023. To access the full summit package, as well as supporting materials, quizzes, and certification, please visit: https://theweekenduniversity.com/membership. --- Janina Fisher, Ph.D. is a licensed clinical psychologist and a former instructor, Harvard Medical School. An international expert on the treatment of trauma, she is an Advisory Board member of the Trauma Research Foundation and the author of three books, Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors: Overcoming Self-Alienation (2017), Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma: a Workbook for Survivors and Therapists (2021), and The Living Legacy Instructional Flip Chart (2022). She is best known for her work on integrating mindfulness-based interventions into trauma treatment, and she is also the creator of Trauma-Informed Stabilization Treatment (TIST) therapy. Interview Links: — Healing the Fragmented Selves - Dr Janina Fisher: https://amzn.to/3ANKAGp — Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma: a Workbook for Survivors and Therapists - Dr Janina Fisher: https://amzn.to/3Blo1ux — The Living Legacy Instructional Flip Chart (2022): https://amzn.to/3cQbAx3 3 Books Dr Fisher Recommends Every Therapist Should Read: — Introduction to IFS - Dr Richard Schwartz: https://amzn.to/3qaOt3y — Healing the Fragmented Selves - Dr Janina Fisher: https://amzn.to/3ANKAGp — Getting Through The Day - Nancy Napier: https://amzn.to/3KJoiKu

To access the full episode and our conference library of 200+ fascinating psychology talks and interviews(with certification), please visit: https://twumembers.com In this episode, I'm joined by Dr Janina Fisher. Dr Fisher is a licensed clinical psychologist and a former instructor at Harvard Medical School. Having trained directly with the likes of Bessel van der Kolk and Pat Ogden, she is now widely recognised as an international expert on the treatment of trauma. Janina is an Advisory Board member of the Trauma Research Foundation and the author of three books including, Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors, Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma, and The Living Legacy Instructional Flip Chart (2022). She is best known for her work on integrating mindfulness-based interventions into trauma treatment, and she is also the creator of Trauma-Informed Stabilization Treatment (TIST) therapy. In this conversation, we discuss: — Dr Fisher's experiences training with Bessel van der Kolk in the 1990s — The left and right brain "split", and how trauma gets stored in the body as implicit memories — The limitations of the "Uni-Consciousness" Model and why a parts paradigm is more effective for healing trauma — Why secure attachment is the number one variable in mental health and how to cultivate "earned secure attachment" internally And more. You can learn more about Dr Fisher's work at www.janinafisher.com. --- This session was recorded as part of our Holistic Psychotherapy Summit in January 2023. To access the full summit package, as well as supporting materials, quizzes, and certification, please visit: https://theweekenduniversity.com/membership. --- Janina Fisher, Ph.D. is a licensed clinical psychologist and a former instructor, Harvard Medical School. An international expert on the treatment of trauma, she is an Advisory Board member of the Trauma Research Foundation and the author of three books, Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors: Overcoming Self-Alienation (2017), Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma: a Workbook for Survivors and Therapists (2021), and The Living Legacy Instructional Flip Chart (2022). She is best known for her work on integrating mindfulness-based interventions into trauma treatment, and she is also the creator of Trauma-Informed Stabilization Treatment (TIST) therapy. Interview Links: — Healing the Fragmented Selves - Dr Janina Fisher: https://amzn.to/3ANKAGp — Transforming the Living Legacy of Trauma: a Workbook for Survivors and Therapists - Dr Janina Fisher: https://amzn.to/3Blo1ux — The Living Legacy Instructional Flip Chart (2022): https://amzn.to/3cQbAx3 3 Books Dr Fisher Recommends Every Therapist Should Read: — Introduction to IFS - Dr Richard Schwartz: https://amzn.to/3qaOt3y — Healing the Fragmented Selves - Dr Janina Fisher: https://amzn.to/3ANKAGp — Getting Through The Day - Nancy Napier: https://amzn.to/3KJoiKu

Have you heard of somatic embodiment? It is not new. Pioneer Dr. Pat Ogden has been practicing somatic and psychotherapeutic techniques for 45 years. And Dr. Peter A Levine has been working over the past 50 years on somatic experiencing, a naturalistic and neurobiological approach to healing trauma. How aware are you of what is happening in your body? How connected are you to your body? My guests this week are Kristin Martelli, owner of GROW (Green Ridge Om and Wellness) and Trish Dickert-Nieves, Holistic Practitioner at Inner Harmony Wellness, talking about the importance of somatic embodiment and an upcoming workshop they will be co-facilitating for women to experience fun, healing and connection! The workshop takes place at Inner Harmony Wellness Center over 4 weeks in June, beginning on Wednesday, June 7 and will offer the following: breath work, visualization, micro/macro movements, and music: you will begin to learn how to listen to your body, recognize physical sensations, develop a better internal understanding of the link between emotions and physical sensation, learn to trust your intuition, and reclaim your sense of safety and security. To register: Venmo $80 to @LoveBeingTricia or Paypal.me/growLLC. Take a break from your busy-ness to listen, learn and be inspired. Learn more about somatic embodiment and how it can be especially helpful for healing those with PTSD. Please share this podcast on your social media or tell a friend. And if you want to help support my ability to keep producing this content, please consider making a donation at: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/uncorkedwithFWG. Follow Funny Wine Girl Jeannine on Instagram and Facebook for random funnies, nature and running photos and wine-ing. I appreciate you from the bottom of my heart and the bottom of my wine glass. #FunnyWineGirl

Anadolu'nun Şifacı Kadınları'nı sunduğum programın bu haftaki Seçkin Çelebi. 1981 yılında Iğdır'da doğan Seçkin, lisans eğitimini Ege Üniversitesi biyokimya bölümü ve yüksek lisans eğitimini İzmir Yüksek Teknoloji Enstitüsü kimya bölümünde tamamladı. Üniversite'de katıldığı dans topluluğunda tanıştığı yoganın hayatında dönüştürücü bir etkisi oldu. Taoizm ve Budizm temel alınarak beden, nefes, enerji ve bilinç çalışmaları yapılan dharma eğitimlerine katıldı. Dr.Gabor Mate, Dr. Stephan Porges, Tara Brach, Dr.Pat Ogden, Cem Şen ile meditasyon, mindfulness, travma, nörofizyoloji, nefes teknikleri ve şefkat pratikleri üzerine eğitimler aldı. Nefes ve Meditasyon eğitimleri veren Seçkin ile hikayesini ve yolculuğunu konuştuk. Seçkin'in paylaşımlarını ve eğitimlerini https://www.instagram.com/_seckincelebi_/ Instagram adresinden takip edebilirsiniz. Keyifli dinlemeler :)

Get early access to our latest psychology lectures: http://bit.ly/new-talks5 In this interview, I'm joined by Dr Alan Watkins. Alan is the CEO of Complete, a leadership development consultancy that specialises in developing exceptional leaders, the author of 8 books, and a 5 time TEDx speaker, whose talks have more than 7 million views. In this lively and wide ranging discussion, we explore: → Why Alan transitioned out of his career as a medical doctor into executive coaching → Why the reduction of human suffering can provide a meaningful trajectory to build your working life around → The 4 characteristics to look for in mentors → The work of Joseph Campbell, and how having a meta frame around the change process can help you navigate the major transitions in life → The benefits of existing in a perpetual state of “beginner's mind” And more. You can learn more about Alan's work by going to: www.complete-coherence.com --- Dr Alan Watkins is the CEO and Founder of Complete, a consultancy specialising in developing exceptional leadership through individual and team development. Alan is unusual in that he advises completely different businesses in totally different market sectors, in different geographies, and works with many different types of businesses from innovative start-ups to FTSE 100 giants. He is the author of several successful books including Innovation Sucks! co-authored with Simon May, and HR (R)Evolution: Change the Workplace, Change the World, co-authored with Nick Dalton. Interview Links: — Step Change: The Leader's Journey: https://amzn.to/3zCLVjN — Coherence: The Science of Exceptional Leadership and Performance: https://amzn.to/3zK6MBH — The Complete App: https://bit.ly/3Wp6slL --- For the past 10 months, we've been working on our biggest project yet: The Holistic Psychotherapy Summit. This is a free online event which aims to provide mental health professionals with the most essential ideas for practising effective psychotherapy in the coming decade, and, as the name suggests, it will cover mind, brain, body, and spiritual approaches to healing. It features exclusive interviews with 30 of the world's leading clinical psychologists, professors, and psychotherapists giving you insights into their best practices and the frameworks they use with clients. You'll be learning directly from the likes of Stephen Porges, Dan Siegel, Janina Fisher, Paul Gilbert, Pat Ogden, Steven Hayes, Lisa Feldman Barrett, Richard Schwartz, Mick Cooper, and 29 others. The best bit is - it's completely FREE to attend live, and you can register today by going to: bit.ly/pod-summit Hope to see you there!

Welcome back to Therapy Chat! We have talked a lot on Therapy Chat about perfectionism, and this week's guest brings a slightly different perspective. Our guest today is a former onsite therapist at Google who proposes that it's not always necessary to let go of being a perfectionist, because there are many positive aspects of this characteristic.  Katherine Morgan Schafler is a psychotherapist, writer and speaker, and former on-site therapist at Google. She earned degrees and trained at UC Berkeley and Columbia University, with post-graduate certification from the Association for Spirituality and Psychotherapy in New York City. Katherine's new book, The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A path to peace and power, came out in January 2023.  In this episode: - Katherine explains the 5 types of perfectionism: Classic Perfectionists  Intense Perfectionists  Parisian Perfectionists  Messy Perfectionists  Procrastinator Perfectionists She describes how each type presents with positive and negative aspects;   Laura talks about the struggles to feel in control when the internal world feels chaotic as a perfectionist; Katherine shares how perfectionists can find a path to peace and power without losing a sense of control; And much more! Visit Katherine's website and learn about her book here.  Buy Katherine Morgan Schafler's book, The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A path to peace and power on Amazon here. Other resources from this week's episode: Sign up for FREE to attend Ireen Ninonuevo's summit, Love After Abuse, Finding Safety & Trust in Relationships here. It begins on 1/16/23 and you'll hear my interview, entitled, "The Secret to Fulfilling Relationships is Inside of You," along with 20 other wonderful speakers.  Register for free for the Holistic Psychotherapy Summit, featuring world-renowned speakers including Pat Ogden and many others! Summit runs 1/23-28!  Get free trainings on Energy Work and Spirituality with trauma survivors from Dr. Frank Anderson and save on his training when you register here! Learn about Keri Nola's Abundance Activator and get a special offer using coupon code: THERAPYCHAT at this link: https://activatorlive.com/  Therapists, save 15% when you attend a Level II NARM training in 2023 using coupon code: TraumaTherapist15 at: www.narmtraining.com Find Laura's most frequently recommended resources for learning about trauma here Love Therapy Chat? Leave a rating and review on Apple podcasts to help more people find the show! Get our free PDF download to learn about the 5 mistakes most people make when searching for a trauma therapist here! This episode is sponsored by Trauma Therapist Network. Learn about trauma, connect with resources and find a trauma therapist near you at www.trauma therapist network.com. We believe that trauma is real, healing is possible and help is available. Therapists, registration opens in March 2023 for Trauma Therapist Network membership. We now have new membership levels and options for Group Practice Owners and Canadian therapists! Get the details and join the waiting list for early access next time registration goes live at: https://go.traumatherapistnetwork.com/join ! Thank you to Innovations in Psychotherapy 2023 in Cancun by Leading Edge Seminars for sponsoring this week's episode! Therapists, meet us in sunny Cancun in February 2023 for a week of training and vacation! Use code LAURA to save 10% on any 5-day workshop fee when purchased with a room at www.leadingedgecancun.com You'll earn CEs in the morning, then have afternoons for fun at an all-inclusive resort. Workshops by Frank Anderson, Arielle Schwartz, John Briere, and more!  Want to learn more from John Briere and practice working with the 5 clinical dilemmas in complex trauma work discussed in last week's episode? Don't miss his 5-day workshop in Cancun this February! Use promo code JOHN50 at www.leadingedgecancun.com when you register for his workshop to save 50% on your hotel room when you book it at the same time. That's a savings of up to $1500! New registrations only. Thank you to TherapyNotes for sponsoring this week's episode! TherapyNotes makes billing, scheduling, notetaking, and telehealth incredibly easy. And now, for all you prescribers out there, TherapyNotes is proudly introducing E-prescribe! Try it today with no strings attached, and see why everyone is switching to TherapyNotes. Now featuring E-prescribe. Use promo code "chat" at www.therapynotes.com to receive 2 FREE months of TherapyNotes! Podcast produced by Pete Bailey - https://petebailey.net/audio

Get early access to our latest psychology lectures: http://bit.ly/new-talks5 Fear can be contagious, especially in times of uncertainty or when we're physically, emotionally, and psychologically activated.  Many laments not having a “training manual” on how to live this life when there's no path already charted out for us.  This is where we can draw upon the integration of attachment theory and the ancient wisdom traditions sculpting out an inner path to deal with external reality.  A Bodhisattva is someone who deliberately chooses to transform their suffering into compassion. From this perspective, life is the training manual for us.  This moment….the “stuff” we're in, the feelings we're having, the current circumstances of our lives – that is the training manual.  Our task is to learn to take those raw materials, learn the signals we get from inside ourselves, decipher the signals from the outside, exploring the matrix so we can choose who we want to be and how we want to respond to this very moment we are in. --- Deirdre Fay, MSW is a thought leader with over 35 years of experience exploring the intersection of wisdom traditions and contemporary psychotherapy as a “Modern Day Bodhisattva (Compassion) Training.” In deliberately choosing to cultivate compassion healing is not an accident but the sure result of consistent and persistent practice as we develop an UnShakeable Heart, Solid, Steady, and Secure in the face of all life circumstances. She's the author of Becoming Safely Embodied (2021), Attachment-Based Yoga & Meditation (2017) as well as co-author of Attachment Disturbances in Adults (2016). You can check more of her work at www.dfay.com Links: - Get our latest psychology lectures emailed to your inbox: http://bit.ly/new-talks5 - Check out our next event: http://theweekenduniversity.com/events - Deirdre's website: https://dfay.com - Deirdre's books: https://amzn.to/3FDcmrb --- For the past 10 months, we've been working on our biggest project yet: The Holistic Psychotherapy Summit. This is a free online event which aims to provide mental health professionals with the most essential ideas for practising effective psychotherapy in the coming decade, and, as the name suggests, it will cover mind, brain, body, and spiritual approaches to healing. It features exclusive interviews with 30 of the world's leading clinical psychologists, professors, and psychotherapists giving you insights into their best practices and the frameworks they use with clients. You'll be learning directly from the likes of Stephen Porges, Dan Siegel, Janina Fisher, Paul Gilbert, Pat Ogden, Steven Hayes, Lisa Feldman Barrett, Richard Schwartz, Mick Cooper, and 29 others. The best bit is - it's completely FREE to attend live, and you can register today by going to: bit.ly/pod-summit Hope to see you there!

Get early access to our latest psychology lectures: http://bit.ly/new-talks5 This session will provide an accessible introduction to this groundbreaking somatic-cognitive approach to PTSD and attachment disturbances treatment. Dr. Ogden will introduce the core principles of Sensorimotor Psychotherapy (SP), and then explore how a sensorimotor ‘lens' can provide practitioners with a deeper sensitivity to issues of marginalization, racial injustice, and oppression. You'll discover how SP can be applied to effectively work with a wide range of issues, including trauma, dissociation, dysregulation, and early attachment injuries. The talk will expand upon the current conception of Sensorimotor Psychotherapy, demonstrating its utility as a truly holistic and contextual form of therapy; one that takes both the whole person and broader socio-cultural considerations into account. --- Dr. Pat Ogden, PhD, is a pioneer in somatic psychology, the creator of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy method, and the founder of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute. Dr. Ogden is a clinician, consultant, international lecturer, and the first author of two groundbreaking books in somatic psychology: Trauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy and Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment (2015). Her third book, The Pocket Guide to Sensorimotor Psychotherapy in Context, advocates for an anti-racist perspective in psychotherapy practice. Her current interests include couple therapy, child and family therapy, social justice, diversity, inclusion, consciousness, and the philosophical/spiritual principles that underlie her work. You can learn more about her work if you go to www.sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org Links: - Get our latest psychology lectures emailed to your inbox: http://bit.ly/new-talks5 - Check out our next event: http://theweekenduniversity.com/events/ - Dr Ogden's website: www.sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org - Dr Ogden's book: https://amzn.to/3PgzmAD --- For the past 10 months, we've been working on our biggest project yet: The Holistic Psychotherapy Summit. This is a free online event which aims to provide mental health professionals with the most essential ideas for practising effective psychotherapy in the coming decade, and, as the name suggests, it will cover mind, brain, body, and spiritual approaches to healing. It features exclusive interviews with 30 of the world's leading clinical psychologists, professors, and psychotherapists giving you insights into their best practices and the frameworks they use with clients. You'll be learning directly from the likes of Stephen Porges, Dan Siegel, Janina Fisher, Paul Gilbert, Pat Ogden, Steven Hayes, Lisa Feldman Barrett, Richard Schwartz, Mick Cooper, and 29 others. The best bit is - it's completely FREE to attend live, and you can register today by going to: bit.ly/pod-summit Hope to see you there!

Get early access to our latest psychology lectures: http://bit.ly/new-talks5 All around us people are looking at their phones too much, eating too much, drinking too much. Our world is addicted to fleeting distracting pleasures that get us nowhere. This talk will aim to provide a clear way back to a balanced life. It's about pleasure. It's also about pain. Most importantly, it's about how to find the delicate balance between the two, and why now more than ever finding balance is essential. We're living in a time of unprecedented access to high-reward, high-dopamine stimuli: drugs, food, news, gambling, shopping, gaming, texting, sexting, Facebooking, Instagramming, YouTubing, tweeting.... The increased numbers, variety and potency are staggering. The smartphone is the modern-day hypodermic needle, delivering digital dopamine 24/7 for a wired generation. As such, we've all become vulnerable to compulsive overconsumption. In this session, Dr. Anna Lembke, psychiatrist and author, will explore the exciting new scientific discoveries that explain why the relentless pursuit of pleasure leads to pain...and what to do about it. You'll learn how finding contentment and connectedness means keeping dopamine in check, and how combining the science of desire with the wisdom of recovery can help you find balance. --- Dr. Lembke was one of the first in the medical community to sound the alarm regarding opioid overprescribing and the opioid epidemic. In 2016, she published her best-selling book on the prescription drug epidemic, “Drug Dealer, MD – How Doctors Were Duped, Patients Got Hooked, and Why It's So Hard to Stop” (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2016). Her book was highlighted in the New York Times as one of the top five books to read to understand the opioid epidemic (Zuger, 2018). Dr Lembke's latest book: “Dopamine Nation: Finding Balance in the Age of Indulgence” is a New York Times and Los Angeles Times Bestseller which explores how to combine the science of desire with the wisdom of recovery to find balance in an overindulgent era. Dr. Anna Lembke received her undergraduate degree in Humanities from Yale University and her medical degree from Stanford University. She is currently Professor and Medical Director of Addiction Medicine, Stanford University School of Medicine. She is also Program Director of the Stanford Addiction Medicine Fellowship, and Chief of the Stanford Addiction Medicine Dual Diagnosis Clinic. She is a diplomate of the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology, and a diplomate of the American Board of Addiction Medicine. Links: - Get our latest psychology lectures emailed to your inbox: http://bit.ly/new-talks5 - Check out our next event: http://theweekenduniversity.com/events/ - Dr. Lembke's website: https://www.annalembke.com - Dr. Lembke's book: https://amzn.to/3AWlMfh --- For the past 10 months, we've been working on our biggest project yet: The Holistic Psychotherapy Summit. This is a free online event which aims to provide mental health professionals with the most essential ideas for practising effective psychotherapy in the coming decade, and, as the name suggests, it will cover mind, brain, body, and spiritual approaches to healing. It features exclusive interviews with 30 of the world's leading clinical psychologists, professors, and psychotherapists giving you insights into their best practices and the frameworks they use with clients. You'll be learning directly from the likes of Stephen Porges, Dan Siegel, Janina Fisher, Paul Gilbert, Pat Ogden, Steven Hayes, Lisa Feldman Barrett, Richard Schwartz, Mick Cooper, and 29 others. The best bit is - it's completely FREE to attend live, and you can register today by going to: bit.ly/pod-summit Hope to see you there!

Get early access to our latest psychology lectures: http://bit.ly/new-talks5 Have you ever looked around and wondered, 'Why has everyone found love except me?' you're not the only one. Great relationships don't just appear in our lives - they're the culmination of a series of decisions, including who to date, how to end it with the wrong person, and when to commit to the right one. But our brains often get in the way. We make poor decisions, which thwart us on our quest to find lasting love. Drawing from years of research, behavioural scientist turned dating coach Logan Ury reveals the hidden forces that cause those mistakes. But awareness on its own doesn't lead to results. You have to actually change your behaviour. In this live interview session, Logan will show you how. Incorporating insights from behavioural science, original research, and real-life stories, you'll learn: — What's holding you back in dating (and how to break the pattern) — What really matters in a long-term partner (and what really doesn't) — ⁠How to overcome the perils of online dating (and make the apps work for you) — ⁠How to meet more people in real life (while doing activities you love) — How to make dates fun again (so they stop feeling like job interviews) — ⁠Why 'the spark' is a myth (but you'll find love anyway) And more… Logan's data-driven, step-by-step approach has the potential to help you find, build and keep a relationship, in which both partners thrive. --- Logan Ury is a behavioural scientist turned dating coach, and the author of How To Not Die Alone. As the Director of Relationship Science at the dating app Hinge, she leads a research team dedicated to helping people find love. After studying psychology at Harvard, she ran Google's behavioural science team—the Irrational Lab. Logan's work has appeared in The New York Times, The Atlantic, TIME, The Washington Post, GQ, Glamour, Vice, on HBO, BBC, and she was a featured speaker at SXSW in 2021. You can learn more of her works at: https://www.loganury.com Links: - Get our latest psychology lectures emailed to your inbox: http://bit.ly/new-talks5 - Check out our next event: http://theweekenduniversity.com/events/ - Logan's website: https://www.loganury.com - Logan's book: https://www.loganury.com/book --- For the past 10 months, we've been working on our biggest project yet: The Holistic Psychotherapy Summit. This is a free online event which aims to provide mental health professionals with the most essential ideas for practising effective psychotherapy in the coming decade, and, as the name suggests, it will cover mind, brain, body, and spiritual approaches to healing. It features exclusive interviews with 30 of the world's leading clinical psychologists, professors, and psychotherapists giving you insights into their best practices and the frameworks they use with clients. You'll be learning directly from the likes of Stephen Porges, Dan Siegel, Janina Fisher, Paul Gilbert, Pat Ogden, Steven Hayes, Lisa Feldman Barrett, Richard Schwartz, Mick Cooper, and 29 others. The best bit is - it's completely FREE to attend live, and you can register today by going to: bit.ly/pod-summit Hope to see you there!

Get early access to our latest psychology lectures: http://bit.ly/new-talks5 As our civilization careens toward a precipice of climate breakdown, ecological destruction, and gaping inequality, people are losing their existential moorings. Our dominant worldview tells us we're split between mind and body, separate from each other, and at odds with the natural world. This worldview has passed its expiration date: it's based on a series of flawed assumptions that have been superseded by modern scientific findings. In this talk, author Jeremy Lent will discuss themes from his new book, The Web of Meaning, revealing how another worldview is possible—based on our deep interconnectedness with all of life. Showing how modern scientific knowledge echoes the ancient wisdom of earlier cultures, the presentation weaves together findings from modern systems thinking, evolutionary biology, and cognitive neuroscience with insights from Buddhism, Taoism, and Indigenous wisdom. --- Jeremy Lent, described by Guardian journalist George Monbiot as “one of the greatest thinkers of our age.” He is an author and speaker whose work investigates the underlying causes of our civilization's existential crisis and explores pathways toward a life-affirming future. His award-winning book, The Patterning Instinct: A Cultural History of Humanity's Search for Meaning, examines the way humans have made meaning from the cosmos from hunter-gatherer times to the present day. His new book, The Web of Meaning: Integrating Science and Traditional Wisdom to Find Our Place in the Universe, offers a solid foundation for an integrative worldview that could lead humanity to a sustainable, and flourishing future. He is the founder of the nonprofit Liology Institute and writes topical articles exploring the deeper patterns of political and cultural developments at Patterns of Meaning. Author website: https://www.jeremylent.com --- Links: - Check out our next event: http://theweekenduniversity.com/events - Jeremy's website: https://www.jeremylent.com - Jeremy's blogs: https://patternsofmeaning.com - Jeremy's books: https://amzn.to/3tJF3gK -- For the past 10 months, we've been working on our biggest project yet: The Holistic Psychotherapy Summit. This is a free online event which aims to provide mental health professionals with the most essential ideas for practising effective psychotherapy in the coming decade, and, as the name suggests, it will cover mind, brain, body, and spiritual approaches to healing. It features exclusive interviews with 30 of the world's leading clinical psychologists, professors, and psychotherapists giving you insights into their best practices and the frameworks they use with clients. You'll be learning directly from the likes of Stephen Porges, Dan Siegel, Janina Fisher, Paul Gilbert, Pat Ogden, Steven Hayes, Lisa Feldman Barrett, Richard Schwartz, Mick Cooper, and 29 others. The best bit is - it's completely FREE to attend live, and you can register today by going to: bit.ly/pod-summit Hope to see you there!

This week, I'm featuring some of the incredible work, insight, and knowledge of relationship experts I've had on. This is a great episode if you're pressed for time, looking for a variety of answers, or just want a taste of what the ManTalks podcast has to offer. I hope you enjoy! Over the last decade, Elizabeth Earnshaw, LMFT has become one of today's most trusted relationship teachers. Elizabeth is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Clinical Fellow of The American Association of Marriage & Family Therapy. She is the Head Therapist at Actually, where she is working to make relational wellness mainstream & accessible. Elizabeth is also the host of Hash it Out on Good Risings where she offers advice to everyday relational conundrums. She is frequently asked to talk about relationships with media outlets like Mind Body Green and The Huffington Post and has been featured on numerous podcasts.  Relationship expert and sought-after coach Jayson Gaddis is the founder of The Relationship School, an impact-based company dedicated to helping people work out their differences and have fulfilling long-term partnerships. Jayson is considered a world leader in love, conflict resolution, and interpersonal relationships. He's the host of an extremely successful podcast with almost 3 million downloads (and over 250 episodes) and has interviewed the very best in the world including Dr. Dan Siegel, Dr. Gabor Mate, Dr. Stan Tatkin, Dr. John Demartini, The Gottmans, Pat Ogden, and Bessel VanDerKolk. Dr. Justin Lehmiller received his Ph.D. in Social Psychology from Purdue University. He is a Research Fellow at The Kinsey Institute and author of the book Tell Me What You Want: The Science of Sexual Desire and How It Can Help You Improve Your Sex Life. Dr. Lehmiller is an award-winning educator, having been honored three times with the Certificate of Teaching Excellence from Harvard University, where he taught for several years. He is also a prolific researcher and scholar who has published more than 50 academic works to date, including a textbook titled The Psychology of Human Sexuality (now in its second edition) that is used in college classrooms around the world. Sheleana Aiyana is the founder of Rising Woman, a growing community of more than 3 million readers. Her training and immersion in couples facilitation, inherited family trauma, family systems, conscious relationship, somatic healing, and plant medicines inform her holistic approach to seeing relationship as a spiritual path. She lives with her husband, Ben, on xʷənen̕əč, the unceded land of the Hul'q'umi'num' and WSÁNEĆ peoples, now known as Salt Spring Island, BC. Did you enjoy the podcast? If so, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or Podchaser. It helps us get into the ears of new listeners, expand the ManTalks Community, and help others find the self-leadership they're looking for. Are you looking to find purpose, navigate transition, or fix your relationships, all with a powerful group of men from around the world? Check out The Alliance and join me today.  Check out our Facebook Page or the Men's community. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts  | Spotify For more episodes visit us at ManTalks.com | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The world doesn't seem to be letting up in the level of craziness we're all experiencing. In the spirit of providing at least a tiny bit of relief and hope this week I'm republishing this series I did with these amazing guests on the topic of “Managing in The Midst of The Pandemic.We continue the series, Managing in The Midst of The Current Outbreak, with none other than Pat Ogden, PhD, a pioneer in somatic psychology and both Founder and Education Director of Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute®, an internationally recognized school specializing in somatic–cognitive approaches for the treatment of posttraumatic stress disorder and attachment disturbances.In this interview Pat shares her thoughts on how this pandemic, and the trauma associated with it, is impacting us not only on an individual level, but on a global scale, as well. She shares her thoughts 0n the importance of recognizing our body's responses and reactions as a means of regulating our nervous system, when we find ourselves in the center of anxiety.First, a huge-thank you to my sponsors for making this podcast happen:CPTSD FoundationCPTSD Foundation provides live, daily, peer-led, interactive group calls, in a safe atmosphere for survivors of complex trauma, equipping them with skills and information they can use every single day in their healing journey.Receive 50% off the first month when you join at: http://bit.ly/2MEbBqcSensorimotor Psychotherapy InstituteDo you struggle to help numb, disconnected clients who can't feel emotion or explore inner experience?Learn a comprehensive approach to conceptualize your clients' concerns. Sensorimotor Psychotherapy uniquely includes the body in therapy as both a source of information and target for intervention…because words are not enough.Go beyond theories and gain practical ways to open a new dimension for effective therapy.Visit Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute online at sensorimotor.org todayPat  is co-founder of the Hakomi Institute, a clinician, consultant, international lecturer and trainer, and first author of Trauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy.  Her second book, Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment (2015) is a practical guide to integrate Sensorimotor Psychotherapy® into the treatment of trauma and attachment issues.  Dr. Ogden is currently developing Sensorimotor Psychotherapy® for children, adolescents and families with colleagues.In This EpisodeSensorimotor PsychotherapySPI COVID resource pageDeb Dana, LCSWThis show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/5739761/advertisement

Today's episode is a revisit from last July with Dr. Pat Ogden. Pat Ogden, PhD, is a pioneer in somatic psychology and both the founder and Education Director of The Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute. Https://sensorymotorpsychotherapy.org Coaching Inquires / sponsorship www.thehealingtraumapodcast.com

We at Insight Mind Body Talk have decided our official season will run September – May, taking each summer to re-visit our “most downloaded” episodes. Why most downloaded? Jess may have her favorites, Jeanne too, but what matters most to IMBT is listening to your voice. And we heard you loud and clear through the number of downloads each episode received.  What does re-visiting mean? Well, basically, that you'll be hearing the original episode again. But this time, prior to the episode, Jess will giving inside information about her thoughts on the content, highlighting key moments, and sharing additional tips not mentioned during the episode.  In "The Mind-Body Connection", Jess and Jeanne begin a conversation about what the mind/body connection is and why it's important. You'll learn how the brain differs from the mind, how the body works in relationship to our brain and nervous system, as well as how the body influences our mind, emotions, thoughts, and memories.  Continue LearningThe Polyvagal Theory The Polyvagal Theory: Neurophysiological Foundations of Emotions, Attachment, Communication, and Self-regulation.  Stephen W. Porges, Ph.D. www.stephenporges.com Deb DanaPolyvagal Theory in Therapy: Engaging the Rhythm of Regulation.  Deborah A. Dana, LCSW Befriending Your Nervous System: Looking Through the Lens of the Polyvagal Theory. Deborah A. Dana, LCSW www.rhythmofregulation.com Pat OgdenSensorimotor Psychotherapy Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment. Pat Ogden & Janina FisherTrauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy. Pat Ogden, Kekuni Minton, Clare Pain www.sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org Neuroscience Neuroscience for Change: A Compassion-Based Program for Personal Transformation. Kelly McGonigal, Ph.D.  Produced by Jessica Warpula Schultz Edited by Jessica Warpula SchultzMusic by Jason A. Schultz

Another amazing guest is joining Lisa Dion for this Lessons from the Playroom episode - Dr. Bonnie Goldstein. As a faculty member at Pat Ogden's Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute, she's taken Sensorimotor Psychotherapy and applied it to children* …. Fun story - Bonnie and Lisa had a random (but not random

Get early access to our latest psychology lectures: http://bit.ly/new-talks5 For patients with trans-generational trauma histories that include oppression, war, slavery, genocide, and immigration to a new culture, it is important to develop treatment plans to address trans-generational wounding and adaptations. How does the clinician know when to focus on trans-generational trauma? This presentation will help clinicians locate transmissions by: 1) attending to the affective quality ad content of the patient's narrative; 2) understanding symptoms of trans-generational trauma; 3) learning how to do generational genograms: and 4) investigating the presence and nature of their tribal narratives. Once the clinician suspects that symptoms are related to trans-generational trauma, a series of interventions are presented to expand history taking, locate generational themes and resources, and process along the lines of the generational trauma/themes. The processing leads to a coherent, regulated generational/tribal narrative from which the patient can move forward and interrupt the transmission of trauma to the next generation. -- Dr. Karen Alter-Reid is a clinical psychologist who specializes in working with adults struggling with post-traumatic stress injuries. She trains mental health clinicians in EMDR Therapy, a modality of treatment for PTSD. She is Faculty, Senior Consultant and Trainer at the National Institute for the Psychotherapies' Integrative Trauma Program in New York City. She has published articles and book chapters on her work with first responders, therapists and on clinical treatment of trans-generational trauma. Dr. Alter-Reid is also Clinical Coordinator of the Fairfield County Trauma Response Team in Fairfield, Connecticut. -- This episode is sponsored by our upcoming “Mind-Body Psychotherapy” Online Conference, taking place on 29th May, 2022. In this lecture series, we'll explore the fascinating new science of the mind-body connection, and how it can be applied to transform therapeutic practice. You'll learn how the mind affects us biologically, how what happens in the body influences the mind, and how to apply these cutting edge insights to enhance your therapeutic work. We'll have talks from three speakers at the forefront of the field, including: — Dr Pat Ogden, who will present on Sensorimotor Psychotherapy in Context. — Susan Aposhyan, who will give a talk on her innovative “Body-Mind Psychotherapy” Approach — Deirdre Fay, whose topic will be “Becoming Safely Embodied”. By attending live, you can interact with the speakers in the Q&A sessions, connect with like-minded participants during the conference, and get CPD certification and lifetime access to the recordings from the sessions. As a listener of this podcast, you can get a discount on your ticket, if you go to https://bit.ly/MBP-2022, and use the discount code: POD when registering.

Get early access to our latest psychology lectures: http://bit.ly/new-talks5 Neurodiversity Affirmative Practice is a relatively new paradigm that has arisen out of the recognition of the importance of listening to those with lived experience. It assumes two main tenets: Firstly, that neurodivergence is conceptualised from the social disability model, rather than the medical model of disability. Secondly, those previous treatments, interventions, and therapies are now considered disrespectful to ND people, and we need to change the way we relate to, and support, these individuals. This talk will discuss this new paradigm, by sharing our growing knowledge and changing conceptualisation of neurodivergence, how to support ND individuals, and why such a shift is important to the continued well-being of our clients. -- Allison Haynes (MPsych Ed/Dev) is an Autistic/ADHD psychologist, who was driven to study psychology when she became frustrated with the lack of support for her autistic children. She has been a practicing clinician in private practice for 10 years, and now owns a successful ND affirmative therapy clinic, in Brisbane, Australia. Her clinic, Left of Centre Therapies, has a fast growing team, with all clinicians either being ND, or closely related to an ND family member. Left of Centre is an educational practice, where provisional psychologists gain top quality training and support in practicing in the ND space, a much-needed service to the community. Her clinic has been nominated for multiple awards, and Allison has plans to expand nationally. LOC's mission statement is: “If anyone walks into our clinic and feels uncomfortable, we are doing something wrong.” Left of Centre works hard to make each session a safe space for ND individuals to be able to unmask, and explore their authentic selves. In her spare time, Allison is writing her autobiography about raising autistic boys, while coming to the realisation that she, herself is autistic. -- This episode is sponsored by our upcoming “Mind-Body Psychotherapy” Online Conference, taking place on 29th May, 2022. In this lecture series, we'll explore the fascinating new science of the mind-body connection, and how it can be applied to transform therapeutic practice. You'll learn how the mind affects us biologically, how what happens in the body influences the mind, and how to apply these cutting-edge insights to enhance your therapeutic work. We'll have talks from three speakers at the forefront of the field, including: - Dr Pat Ogden, who will present on Sensorimotor Psychotherapy in Context. - Susan Aposhyan, who will give a talk on her innovative “Body-Mind Psychotherapy” Approach - Deirdre Fay, whose topic will be “Becoming Safely Embodied”. By attending live, you can interact with the speakers in the Q&A sessions, connect with like-minded participants during the conference, and get CPD certification and lifetime access to the recordings from the sessions. As a listener of this podcast, you can get a discount on your ticket, if you go to https://bit.ly/MBP-2022, and use the discount code: POD when registering. -- Links: Check out our next event: theweekenduniversity.com/events - Allison's website: http://allisonhaynespsychology.com.au/

Get early access to our latest psychology lectures: http://bit.ly/new-talks5 The autonomic nervous system is at the heart of daily living powerfully shaping our experiences of safety and influencing our capacity for connection. What begins with our biology becomes the story that shapes our days. Polyvagal Theory provides a guide to the autonomic circuits that underlie behaviours and beliefs and an understanding of the body to brain pathways that give birth to our personal stories of safety and survival. When we learn the language of the nervous system, we can safely tune in, turn toward our inner experience, and begin to reshape our autonomic pathways. In this presentation, we'll explore how to answer the essential question, “What does the nervous system need in this moment to find safety in connection? -- Deb Dana, LCSW is a clinician and consultant specializing in working with complex trauma. She is a consultant to the Traumatic Stress Research Consortium in the Kinsey Institute, Clinical Advisor to Khiron Clinics, and an advisor to Unyte. She developed the Rhythm of Regulation Clinical Training Series and lectures internationally on ways Polyvagal Theory informs work with trauma survivors. Deb is the author of Befriending Your Nervous System, The Polyvagal Theory in Therapy: Engaging the Rhythm of Regulation, Polyvagal Exercises for Safety and Connection: 50 Client-Centered Practices, co-editor of Clinical Applications of the Polyvagal Theory: The Emergence of Polyvagal-Informed Therapies, and creator of the Polyvagal Flip Chart. For more information on Deb's work, please see: www.rhythmofregulation.com -- This episode is sponsored by our upcoming “Mind-Body Psychotherapy” Online Conference, taking place on 29th May, 2022. In this lecture series, we'll explore the fascinating new science of the mind-body connection, and how it can be applied to transform therapeutic practice. You'll learn how the mind affects us biologically, how what happens in the body influences the mind, and how to apply these cutting edge insights to enhance your therapeutic work. We'll have talks from three speakers at the forefront of the field, including: — Dr Pat Ogden, who will present on Sensorimotor Psychotherapy in Context. — Susan Aposhyan, who will give a talk on her innovative “Body-Mind Psychotherapy” Approach — Deirdre Fay, whose topic will be “Becoming Safely Embodied”. By attending live, you can interact with the speakers in the Q&A sessions, connect with like-minded participants during the conference, and get CPD certification and lifetime access to the recordings from the sessions. As a listener of this podcast, you can get a discount on your ticket, if you go to https://bit.ly/MBP-2022, and use the discount code: POD when registering. -- Links: - Check out our next event: http://theweekenduniversity.com/events/ - Deb's website: https://www.rhythmofregulation.com/ - Deb's books: https://amzn.to/3xUyxnu

Get early access to our latest psychology lectures: http://bit.ly/new-talks5 This talk will describe how we can evolve more nurturing societies. The human and biological sciences have converged in recent years in showing that individuals and human groups are most likely to thrive in nurturing conditions. Nurturing environments minimize toxic biological and social conditions, richly reinforce diverse forms of prosocial behaviour, limit influences and opportunities for antisocial or unhealthful behaviour, and promote psychological flexibility, which involves mindfully acting in the service of one's values. Considerable research has shown how we can create these conditions. The talk will review what we know about the development of antisocial behaviour and antisocial groups. It will then describe family, school, and community programs and policies that foster prosocial development. Finally, it will describe the growing movement to promote prosociality around the world. -- Anthony Biglan Ph.D. is a Senior Scientist at Oregon Research Institute and President of Values to Action. His book, The Nurture Effect: How the science of human behaviour can improve our lives and our world, describes how behavioural science research has brought us to the point where it is possible to evolve a society in which virtually every person is living a productive life in caring relationships with others. His new book, Rebooting Capitalism: How we can forge a society that works for everyone, explains how we evolved a form of capitalism over the last 50 years that has impoverished millions of Americans, undermined the regulation of harmful business practices, and corrupted most of the major sectors of society. The book provides a roadmap for how we can evolve a more nurturing form of capitalism. -- Links: Check out our next event: http://theweekenduniversity.com/events Dr Anthony's website: https://tonybiglan.com Dr Anthony's books: https://amzn.to/2Or2WZQ -- This episode is sponsored by our upcoming “Mind-Body Psychotherapy” Online Conference, taking place on 29th May, 2022. In this lecture series, we'll explore the fascinating new science of the mind-body connection, and how it can be applied to transform therapeutic practice. You'll learn how the mind affects us biologically, how what happens in the body influences the mind, and how to apply these cutting edge insights to enhance your therapeutic work. We'll have talks from three speakers at the forefront of the field, including: — Dr Pat Ogden, who will present on Sensorimotor Psychotherapy in Context. — Susan Aposhyan, who will give a talk on her innovative “Body-Mind Psychotherapy” Approach — Deirdre Fay, whose topic will be “Becoming Safely Embodied”. By attending live, you can interact with the speakers in the Q&A sessions, connect with like-minded participants during the conference, and get CPD certification and lifetime access to the recordings from the sessions. As a listener of this podcast, you can get a discount on your ticket, if you go to https://bit.ly/MBP-2022, and use the discount code: POD when registering.

What is it that all of the worlds major religions share in common? How does this relate to psychotherapy and mental health? Is there a way that we can reconcile the findings of neuroscience and the tradition of spirituality? How are trauma therapy's and Jungian psychology's goals aligned? Read the article at: https://www.gettherapybirmingham.com/post/therapy-spirituality-and-mysticism Article: In the medieval period it was common to take pilgrimages to the holy land from mainland Europe. The trip was an opportunity to face one's fears and learn to know the deepest parts of self. The trip was long and dangerous. The terrain and culture were different from anything that pilgrims had seen back home. Along the way the pilgrims prayed, fasted and sought inner peace to prepare to be close to God. The pilgrimage to the holy land was a metaphor for Jesus's life and journey much like the stations of the cross. The labyrinth in the christian church is used as a mystical symbol for self discovery Peasants and minor nobles could not afford such a trip. Instead they would take a symbolic pilgrimage where they would contemplate the self. The path they would walk was called a labyrinth. On a single glance the labyrinth looks like a maze that one might get lost in. The path has many twists and turns. Upon closer examination it becomes clear that the labyrinth is a single path. If one continues walking then one will come inexorably to the center. The Labyrinth is one example of a mystical practice. As we are walking the labyrinth we do not need our rational or conscious mind to help us make decisions. We only need to keep walking towards the center. The repetitive actions without the need for executive functions help wind down the ego. Walking the labyrinth is a meditation practice in that it helps us tune in to a different state of mind. The labyrinth is a tool to concentrate on some part of ourselves beneath the ego driven conscious mind. The labyrinth is not about going somewhere in the world. Instead it is about going somewhere inside our mind, heart and perhaps soul. Mysticism is a philosophical tradition that the search for ultimate knowledge of divinity and truth requires that we discover a deep knowledge of ourselves. The idea that the search to know the self is also the search to know God is a threatening ideology to many people at first glance, however few mystics believe that the self is God. Mysticism does not have to mean that the self is God. Rather Mysticism is often used as a metaphor by mystics for how our ability to understand ultimate reality is limited by our ability to understand ourselves. Through this lens, it is our own trauma, fear and undeveloped self that limit our ability to understand truth. Through healing and accepting the self we are able to accept the world as it is and see accept our higher purpose. What is mysticism and what does it have to do with therapy? To some people mystic means someone who is overly abstract or obscures information but this is a secondary definition. Mysticism is the belief that self and spirituality are not found through world accomplishment or possessions. The mystic finds spirituality in the journey inward into the deepest parts of the self. Mysticism is belief that truth, divinity and/or, the true self is found by learning to connect with the deepest parts of our self. In this tradition the ego is the enemy. The ego is our rigid self image, or idea of what we think we are as well as the thoughts and language that our ego identifies with. The goal of the mystic is not to identify with the ego and the thoughts and language that come from the ego. For the mystic the self is not the ego, but the larger unconscious mind beyond the ego. The goal of the mystic is to dissolve the conscious mind and let go of language based cognition. Throughout life trauma, anxiety and negative coping mechanisms pile up and obscure our view of who we are and what we really want. Obsession and anxiety turn our focus to regrets about the past and fear of the future. When we dissolve the ego we are able to contact the self as it existed before it was obscured and as it exists in the present moment. Mystical techniques dissolve the protective parts like addiction, anger and stagnation that protect the ego from change. Does mysticism have to be religious? The Ego / Self Axis was described by Edward Edinger While we often think of hierarchies and doctrines when we think of organized religion, there is a mystic tradition in every major world religion. Mystics in the religious traditions see the goal of ego dissolution as a oneness with the divine. Christian mystics include Meister Eckhart, Simone Weil, and Julian of Norwich. Islam has Rumi and the Suffi tradition. Judaism has Martin Buber and the Qabbalah. Hinduism and taoism have mysticism baked into their core teachings. The list of mystic poets and artists is also long. Rainer Maria Rilke, and Hilma af Klint are some of the most well known. Mysticism does not have to be religious. There are non deistic and atheistic mystical traditions too. Theravada Buddhism posits that the ego self is a delusion and seeks to disband the ego entirely. Yoga practices teach participants to drop into “body mind” through physical movement and somatic awareness. One theme in most mystical writing is the discovery of the authentic self and a resulting deep compassion for others. Mystics emphasize that dissolving the ego results in a deep sense of love and profound sense of connection. Another theme in mystical traditions is the simultaneous paradoxical feelings of connection and otherness when ego is dissolved. Many mystics write about feeling separate from the world yet simultaneously at one with all things. The experience of ego dissolution is often hard to describe and does not fit neatly into our conscious or the language oriented mind. So what does any of this have to do with therapy? I don't chant or do yoga with my patients. I rarely do hypnosis or guided meditation. I don't use psychedelic assisted therapy. But yet, I use techniques from the mystics with patients all of the time. In fact, I believe that having a mystical experience is often the crucial point in therapy when patients change and get better. I remember hearing multiple lectures from the 1970's where therapists would say something like “the place where real change takes place is when the patient enters a place between waking and sleep”. At the time I thought what the hell does that mean? After experiencing many of these moments with patients, and as a patient I now understand what these therapists meant. Change happens in therapy when patients experience deep emotional releases that challenge our self image and our world view. Put succinctly, we only really change our life when the ego is turned off. It takes reprogramming the subcortical part of the brain, responsible for our emotional reactions and body awareness, to change the way we behave. Cognitive only therapy tries to tighten the ego's control over the system to beat our unconscious into submission. The effect this has is limiting and temporary. Real change occurs not by changing the way we think but changing the way we feel. Is there a mystical therapy? YES! I find both depth psychology, somatic therapies, and brain based medicine, like brainspotting; to be incredibly effective at healing trauma and helping patients change behavior. Taproot Therapy Collective uses approaches rooted in depth psychology and brain based medicine to heal trauma. Both approaches stimulate the subcortical brain. Both approaches help patient's turn off the ego and confront the true self. Neither of these approaches are cognitive or ego based therapies. As a patient I found that brainspotting was one of the most mystical experiences of my life. It allowed me to grow and heal more than all previous psychotherapy models. You can read about my experience here. Is mysticism part of psychology? Jungian, or depth psychology, is the branch of psychology concerned with the ego-less, unconscious mind. Much of what Carl Jung, it's founder, studied were the psychological implications of the mystic traditions. Jung looked to religion as the framework to create a new psychology. While this led many “serious”minded academics to label him as new age mumbo jumbo, it also let him create one of the most influential approaches to psychotherapy. Many modern trauma therapies have their roots in the Jungian tradition. Somatic therapy, IFS therapy, gestalt therapy and the life coaching model all have their foundation in Carl Jung's psychology. Jungian psychotherapy sought to teach patients to recognize and understand the parts of the unconscious. This helps the patient accept and integrate parts of themselvs that they hate, fear and judge. Jungian psychology helps bring these repressed parts of self into conscious awareness. What are the parts of self that get repressed? What is the shadow? Chief among the parts of the unconscious that Jung identified was the shadow or the parts of the unconscious that most threatened the ego. The shadow is all the parts of self that are “not allowed” or “not accepted” in the conscious mind. Consequently the shadow is what causes most of the symptoms that make patients present to psychotherapy. Because the ego seeks to repress the shadow the ego can not control the shadow when it emerges from beneath the placid surface of consciousness. Many things about the self we fight to accept and actively repress. There are things we don't want to know about ourselves. Effective therapy uses the unconscious mind and the shadow to help us accept and integrate parts of ourselves that we are uncomfortable with. The shadow can contain the traumatic events in our life and hide their effect on us. Teaching patients to both recognize the shadow and accept it as a part of themselves is key to jungian psychology and the models that it influenced. Depth psychology works because it teaches the patient to recognize and own the parts of self that “do not feel like me” but “are still me”. Until these parts are brought into consciousness we cannot heal trauma. Carl Jung outlined his incredibly complex, complete and yet intuitive psychology a century before Gabor Mate, Peter Levine, Pat Ogden, Bessel van der Kolk, or David Grand began the brain based medicine movement. These modern scientists use scientific language for teaching patients to regulate the subcortical brain. They relied on medical and scientific advancement to understand what was happening in the deep brain when we heal trauma. Carl Jung's psychology described the same process but used metaphor and symbol. Jung was able to deduce the functioning of the subcortical brain and process of healing trauma from intuition and not scientific innovations. When the ego is turned off we experience the subcorticle brain directly. What do we feel when the ego is dissolved? What is ego death? This is a complicated question because what we feel is the self, and the author of this article is not you. What I feel is likely different from what you would feel… or is it? Many mystical traditions have the belief that we all return to the same source and feel the same thing when we surrender our ego. What is the case? I am a psychotherapist not a priest. In short I don't know. In the Jungian language we feel the parts of self that we least understand, most repress and construct ego defenses to avoid. In academic language we feel the limbic dysregulation caused by trauma and the way we hold emotion in our bodies. Put simply, experiencing the feelings in the deep brain is a physical and emotional exercise not an intellectual one. Feeling trapped, feeling out of control, guilty, or victimized. We learn that we cannot revisit this emotional space because we cannot survive it. Our ego becomes a protective tool to avoid these emotional spaces. “That's just who I am” our ego tells our self or “That's just what I do”. What you feel when the ego is dissolved is all the parts of yourself that you cannot own yet. It is overwhelming but ultimately rewarding. We have to go through the labyrinth of the places that scare us to get to strengths in our personality that ultimately change our lives. The ego wants to believe that it is all of us, but it is not. There are always depths to our personality that we have not accepted yet. Discovering the self is a lifelong process. Jung used artwork to map the psyche Where does the unconscious come from? What is it that we experience when we experience these layers of consciousness? Jung called it the “collective unconscious” believing that all beings shared a “collective” experience at the bottom layers of awareness. It is still up for debate if Jung thought that a deity or a process of evolution was the reason for this experience. Secular mystics see the unconscious as a place where we can learn our purpose as individuals, foster empathy, and achieve emotional clarity. Spiritual mystics often explain the unconscious as a union with divinity or “godhead”. What you feel when the ego is dissolved is the heart of the mystical experience. What it is, is hard for the author to write about because it is not easy to fit the contents of the subcortical brain into language. In my own limited experience it was a feeling of being out of control, not knowing, and deep inferiority that had lay hidden under my life. I had been running from a feeling, unconsciously. Until I faced it I did not know how to be the person that I wanted to be. Again, I am a psychotherapist and not a priest or a scientist. The thing that one feels in the unconscious are experiences and not objective data points. Consciousness is like a root that begins in the ego and the prefrontal cortex. When we leave the the prefrontal cortex we loose language and “thought based” cognition. The root runs through the midbrain engaging our movement and fight or flight system. The root continues down the basal ganglia and into the nervous system of the brainstem and spine. Art therapy can help you tap into the subcorticle brain and mystical space What is in the unconscious mind? Again your theoretical orientation might answer a lot of this question for you. For me as a therapist and as a patient I divide the experience up into a couple “layers” of what people usually feel. Layer 1: These are all the things I avoid knowing about myself. Maybe I have an anger management issue, an eating disorder, a major avoidance issue or an addiction. The way my ego frames it is that “ I deserve it” or “I have a hard job so I'm allowed too”. In actuality, my unconscious knows that I can't deal with an emotion that I have formed a ego protective part to shut down the emotion for me. Layer 2: This layer is all of the childhood, or adult trauma that dysregulated the subcortical brain. Is the deeply baked in emotional assumptions that I might know intellectually are wrong but default to on an emotional level. Sometimes there are triggers for trauma and PTSD in our flight or flight system that we cannot regulate control with our intellect. Layer 3: Many patients get to a layer of the unconscious that feels familiar but does not feel “like them”. Often it feels like a strong emotion that we recognize but do not identify with. Many patients that have recorded birth trauma recognize feelings of abandonment and profound separation during brainspotting. One therapist I spoke with had never understood her fear of the color white. After Brainspotting she had vivid memories of the color white being the only thing she saw when being treated in a vapor tent as an infant. Intellectually she had no memory of the color white being a trigger. her infant brain remembered the white tent and associated it with the stressful experience that interrupted her attachment. Layer 4: At the bottom layer of consciousness mystics describe a profound sense of empathy and connection to all things. Patients often report feeling like they “saw themselves from the outside” or “have a different perspective on who they are”. Mystics describe this state as a separation from the ego and a feeling of understanding and accepting the self. In this liminal state mystics report feeling connected to the source of being. Where do these feelings come from and where do they lead? Again, I am a psychotherapist not a philosopher or a priest. I can' tell you where the experiences at the base of consciousness come from. I can only tell you what they are most commonly reported to be by mystics and psychotherapy patients. Whether you choose to interpret the experience as a neuroscience or spirituality is up to you.

Today, I'm thrilled to be joined by Dr. Pat Ogden, PhD - a pioneer in somatic psychology, and the creator of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy method. Dr. Ogden is founder of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute and co-founder of the Hakomi Institute; she is trained in a huge range of somatic and psychotherapeutic approaches to healing and wellness, and has over 45 years of experience working with individuals and groups.Throughout this podcast, you'll hear us refer to the word somatic, which just means relating to or affecting the body—and often, especially after childhood abuse and trauma, that's what we're most disconnected from.The body holds our trauma, but it also holds the keys to our healing.In this podcast, Dr. Ogden shares with us how the body has the innate intelligence and wisdom to reveal where and how we need to heal trauma that is still showing up in our adult lives—and that sometimes we're not even aware of that trauma until it's triggered in every day, present moments. In these moments, we have the choice to listen to the signals, sensations, and suggestions from our bodies to guide our next steps and respond differently to move forward into wellness and happiness.

Coming in hot after Keith Yackey's episode is another good friend, Jayson Gaddis. This guy has a CV a mile long, so it's always a pleasure to have him on the show. We go deep into relational conflict, looking at the unique blueprint each person brings to any relationship, how it informs the conflict we can (and can't!) handle, and some tips and tricks on approaching conflict in a healthy way.  Relationship expert and sought-after coach Jayson Gaddis is the founder of The Relationship School, an impact-based company dedicated to helping people work out their differences and have fulfilling long-term partnerships. Jayson is considered a world leader in love, conflict resolution, and interpersonal relationships. He's the host of an extremely successful podcast with almost 3 million downloads (and over 250 episodes) and has interviewed the very best in the world including Dr. Dan Siegel, Dr. Gabor Mate, Dr. Stan Tatkin, Dr. John Demartini, The Gottmans, Pat Ogden, and Bessel VanDerKolk. Jayson founded The Relationship School® and leads the most comprehensive relationship training in the world on intimate relationships and partnership, called The Deep Psychology Of Intimate Relationships or (DPIR). DPIR is the ONLY curriculum on how intimate relationships work and how to do them well. Currently, Jayson has graduated over 100 students through his nine-month training. DPIR's main focus is to help people become relational leaders and interpersonally intelligent. Jayson the creator of Interpersonal Intelligence® or i2. Interpersonal Intelligence® is a comprehensive map and system specifically designed to create a secure long-term partnership. i2 is informed by human development, transpersonal psychology, polyvagal theory, adult attachment theory, neuroscience, interpersonal neurobiology, axiology, psychotherapy, coaching, gestalt theory, and Vajrayana Buddhism. Jayson also founded The Relationship School's Relationship Coaching Training Program. The RC program has 3 levels of certification. Level one is about learning how to “be with” people and upgrade old habits around enabling and rescuing others so you can be a more effective and efficient helper. Level 2 is about learning to work with couples. Level three is about mastery. Thus far Jayson has certified over 40 people from around the world in his coaching modality called Present Centered Relationship Coaching™.   Connect with Jayson -Website; The Relationship School: https://relationshipschool.com/ -Website; Personal: https://www.jaysongaddis.com/ -NEW Book; Getting to Zero: https://amzn.to/3qZguN6 -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jaysongaddis/ -Twitter: https://twitter.com/JayGaddis -Podcast: https://www.jaysongaddis.com/podcast/ Did you enjoy the podcast? If so, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or Podchaser. It helps us get into the ears of new listeners, expand the ManTalks Community, and help others find the self-leadership they're looking for. Are you looking to find purpose, navigate transition, or fix your relationships, all with a powerful group of men from around the world? Check out The Alliance and join me today.  Check out our Facebook Page or the Men's community. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts  | Spotify For more episodes visit us at ManTalks.com | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter    Editing & Mixing by: Aaron The Tech See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome back to Therapy Chat! This week host Laura Reagan, LCSW-C interviews returning guest Dr. Pat Ogden. You may recall back in 2018 Dr. Ogden was on Therapy Chat for the first time, talking about Sensorimotor Psychotherapy, the method she founded (link below). This time, Dr. Ogden discusses her newest book, The Pocket Guide to Sensorimotor Psychotherapy in Context. She talks about the book and the importance of bringing an anti-racist, anti-oppressive perspective to the field of psychology in general, and Sensorimotor Psychotherapy in particular.    Pat Ogden, PhD, (she/her), is a pioneer in somatic psychology, the creator of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy method and founder of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute. Dr. Ogden is a clinician, consultant, international lecturer and the first author of two groundbreaking books in somatic psychology: Trauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy and Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment (2015). Her third book, The Pocket Guide to Sensorimotor Psychotherapy in Context, advocates for an anti-racist perspective in psychotherapy practice. Her current interests include couples therapy, child and family therapy, social justice, diversity, inclusion, consciousness, and the philosophical/spiritual principles that underlie her work. Learn more at www.sensorimotor.org.  RESOURCES: Pat Ogden's first Therapy Chat interview: Episode 121 Thank you to this week's sponsors! Sunset Lake CBD is created on a small farm outside of Burlington, Vermont that is a producer for Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream.  Sunset Lake CBD customers support regenerative agriculture that preserves the health of the land and creates meaningful employment in the community. Farm workers are paid a living wage, and employees own the majority of the company. Therapy Chat listeners, get 20% off your entire order of Sunset Lake CBD products using promo code CHAT at www.sunsetlakecbd.com.  Help us make Trauma Therapist Network the best resource it can be! Send a message about resources you think should be included in the Trauma Therapist Network Site using the form on this page. Looking for a trauma therapist or are you a trauma therapist wanting to join the network? Check it out at: www.traumatherapistnetwork.com! Therapy Chat and Trauma Chat podcasts are also found on the site. Follow Therapy Chat on Instagram Follow Trauma Chat on Instagram Podcast produced by Pete Bailey - https://petebailey.net/audio

Sober is Dope PTG VS. PTSD ( https://youtu.be/vrB_BGgiC6I ) Fair Use Disclaimer: This podcast is for Educational/Motivational/Inspirational purposes only!! **FAIR USE** Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. NICAMB: What is PTG with Dr. Sonja Lyubomirsky( https://youtu.be/9PG71LHinQc ) Sonja Lyubomirsky is a Russian-born American professor in the Department of Psychology at the University of California, Riverside and author of the bestseller The How of Happiness: A Scientific Approach Post-traumatic growth (PTG) is a theory that explains this kind of transformation following trauma. It was developed by psychologists Richard Tedeschi, PhD, and Lawrence Calhoun, PhD, in the mid-1990s, and holds that people who endure psychological struggle following adversity can often see positive growth afterward. "People develop new understandings of themselves, the world they live in, how to relate to other people, the kind of future they might have and a better understanding of how to live life," says Tedeschi. Signs of post-traumatic growth PTG can be confused with resilience, but the two are different constructs (see "The post-traumatic growth inventory" below). "PTG is sometimes considered synonymous with resilience because becoming more resilient as a result of struggle with trauma can be an example of PTG—but PTG is different from resilience, says Kanako Taku, PhD, associate professor of psychology at Oakland University, who has both researched PTG and experienced it as a survivor of the 1995 Kobe earthquake in Japan. "Resiliency is the personal attribute or ability to bounce back," says Taku. PTG, on the other hand, refers to what can happen when someone who has difficulty bouncing back experiences a traumatic event that challenges his or her core beliefs, endures psychological struggle (even a mental illness such as post-traumatic stress disorder), and then ultimately finds a sense of personal growth. It's a process that "takes a lot of time, energy and struggle," Taku says. Someone who is already resilient when trauma occurs won't experience PTG because a resilient person isn't rocked to the core by an event and doesn't have to seek a new belief system, explains Tedeschi. Less resilient people, on the other hand, may go through distress and confusion as they try to understand why this terrible thing happened to them and what it means for their world view. To evaluate whether and to what extent someone has achieved growth after a trauma, psychologists use a variety of self-report scales. One that was developed by Tedeschi and Calhoun is the Post-Traumatic Growth Inventory (PTGI) (Journal of Traumatic Stress, 1996). It looks for positive responses in five areas: Appreciation of life. Relationships with others. New possibilities in life. Personal strength. Spiritual change. The scale is being revised to add new items that will expand the "spiritual change" domain, says Tedeschi. This is being done "to incorporate more existential themes that should resonate with those who are more secular" as well as reflect cross-cultural differences in perceptions of spirituality. Neuroplasticity and Trauma- Can Brain Science Give Us a New Perspective on Healing? PAT OGDEN ( https://www.nicabm.com/faculty/pat-ogden/ ) Pat Ogden, PhD is one of the most well-known trauma and psychotherapy experts in the world today. Listen as she talks about how the brain works, and how we can use brain science to improve brain function and brain health. Neuroplasticity is an important concept, and Pat Ogden offers us valuable insight into the world of brain health. ( http://youtu.be/-GRS5BduARE ) --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/soberisdope/message

In today's episode we get to talk with world renowned trauma therapist and creator of sensorimotor psychotherapy, Dr. Pat Ogden PhD. Join us as Dr. Ogden shares with us wisdom from her 50 years of practice. We dive into the interplay between the nervous system, the body, beliefs and emotions, how to stay in the body even when we don't like the sensation and what are some of the ramifications from COVID 19. Highlights Discover how trauma is more about how the event effects the brain and the body rather then the actual event itself. Learn how important secure attachments are in building resilience to trauma. Gain insights into how parents can create an environment that will support the child's stress response. Learn How to build resilience to trauma. Visit Dr. Ogden's Website  

Our guest today is Dr. Pat Ogden, PhD, a pioneer in somatic psychology, the creator of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy method, and founder of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute (sensorimotor.org). Dr. Ogden is a clinician, consultant, international lecturer, and Dr. Ogden is the first author of two groundbreaking books in somatic psychology: Trauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy and Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment (2015). Her third book, The Pocket Guide to Sensorimotor Psychotherapy in Context, advocates for an anti-racist perspective in psychotherapy practice, has recently been released. Her current interests include couple therapy, child and family therapy, social justice, diversity, inclusion, consciousness, and the philosophical/spiritual principles that underlie her work. In this podcast we talk about: - What is sensorimotor Psychotherapy - What is our body trying to tell us? - Identifying and healing trauma through the body - Dr. Pat's new book  - the polyvagal theory Credits: The 'dhaani' soundtrack has been composed by Saptak Chatterjee with Creative Direction by Sonam Kalra

 KJ embraces her inner fangirl with today's guest, clinical psychologist, yoga teacher, international speaker and author, Dr. Arielle Schwartz.  Dr Schwartz is a leading voice in the healing of PTSD and complex trauma and she is the author of six books incorporating an integrative (somatic psychology, EMDR, mindfulness practices), strength-based approach to trauma treatment. In a compassionate conversation, KJ and Dr. Schwartz speak to the power in proclaiming aloud our intentions for healing in the name of service for others. The ladies also honor the courage it takes to practice true self compassion. Takeaways:  Notice the somatic connection in your own life. What are your body's coping mechanisms?  Take the risk to put your gift in the world. Someone will be impacted by it.  Self Compassion practices means a willingness to let go of prescription and of trying to protocol or predict where we're going. Episode Mentions: Website  Dr Arielle SchwartzInstagram  @ArielleSchwartzBoulder Dr. Arielle Schwartz on Facebook Dr. Schwartz's Blog Here Order Dr. Schwartz's New Book: The complex PTSD Treatment Manual Out June 8. The Mind-Body Therapy Summit from  Embody Lab (join KJ there today!) Integrative Somatic Trauma Therapy Certificate Program in which the world's leading trauma therapy experts (Peter Levine, Stephen Porges, Pat Ogden, Deb Dana, Arielle Schwartz and more!) offer a holistic framework for understanding and working with trauma from a body-centered perspective.Connect With KJ and Bliss Begins Within IG:  @MusingsOnOther @BlissBeginsWithin @AdopteeSociety Get updates on KJ's upcoming workshops hereWebsite: https://blissbeginswithin.com  KJ & Friends have a new Roundtable Podcast- CONNECTED!Clubhouse: @kjnasrul  Follow KJ's Clubs >>> Magical Cartographers Club and Creativity & Compassion ClubFacebook & TwitterWant to create and send beautiful emails? Try Flodesk for free your first 30 days! Use this link here to get started

In a two part conversation, Jess and her guest, Kate Lauth, MSW, LCSW, talk about bringing the body into therapy. By using the body's experience as the entry point to treatment, they bring insight and information about the sensorimotor processing system and trauma resolution. Listeners will learn about a body-centered model called sensorimotor psychotherapy and the key concepts SP uses to create holistic change.  Episodes 9 & 10 are a deep dive into the rich understanding offered to us through the wisdom of the body.     Continue Learning Pat Odgen, PhD. Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute.  Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment. Pat Ogden & Janina Fisher Trauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy. Pat Ogden, Kekuni Minton, Clare Pain www.sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org Youtube clip: "Attachment or Trauma? A Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Approach". Attachment or Trauma? A Sensorimotor Psychotherapy approach Ron Kurtz, PhD https://hakomiinstitute.com/ Janina Fisher, PhD. https://janinafisher.com/    Produced by Jessica Warpula Schultz & Jeanne KolkerEdited by Jessica Warpula SchultzMusic by Jason A. SchultzSound Clip Editing and Mixing provided by Jason A. Schultz 

In a two part conversation, Jess and her guest, Kate Lauth, MSW, LCSW, talk about bringing the body into therapy. By using the body's experience as the entry point to treatment, they bring insight and information about the sensorimotor processing system and trauma resolution. Listeners will learn about a body-centered model called sensorimotor psychotherapy and the key concepts SP uses to create holistic change.  Episodes 9 & 10 are a deep dive into the rich understanding offered to us through the wisdom of the body.  Continue Learning Pat Odgen, PhD. Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute.  Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment. Pat Ogden & Janina Fisher Trauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy. Pat Ogden, Kekuni Minton, Clare Pain www.sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org Youtube clip: "Attachment or Trauma? A Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Approach". Attachment or Trauma? A Sensorimotor Psychotherapy approach Ron Kurtz, PhD https://hakomiinstitute.com/ Janina Fisher, PhD. https://janinafisher.com/    Produced by Jessica Warpula Schultz Edited by Jessica Warpula SchultzMusic by Jason A. SchultzSound Clip Editing and Mixing provided by Jason A. Schultz  

In this episode, Trauma Report writer Fatmah Jahim speaks with Dr. Pat Ogden, a pioneer in Somatic Psychology and a leading expert in working through the body to resolve trauma. She is also the founder of Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute, an internationally recognized school specializing in somatic-cognitive approaches for PTSD. Dr. Ogden explains the purpose of Sensorimotor therapy and ways to recognize psychological and physical unconscious behaviours and habits which may arise due to traumatic experiences.

Jess & Jeanne discuss trauma and how it impacts the mind, brain, and body.  They'll explore evidence-based, body-centered approaches used to help people deal with the difficulties caused by traumatic events.  As always, they'll teach simple, mind-body techniques listeners can use in everyday life to feel better.Continue Learning   -The Polyvagal Theory         The Polyvagal Theory: Neurophysiological Foundations of Emotions, Attachment, Communication, and Self-regulation.  Stephen W. Porges, Ph.D.          Polyvagal Theory in Therapy: Engaging the Rhythm of Regulation.  Deborah A. Dana, LCSW         Befriending Your Nervous System: Looking Through the Lens of the Polyvagal Theory. Deborah A. Dana, LCSW    -Sensorimotor Psychotherapy         Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment. Pat Ogden & Janina Fisher        Trauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy. Pat Ogden, Kekuni    Minton, Clare Pain    -Trauma         Principles of Trauma Therapy.  John N. Briere, Catherine Scott         -Related articles:          Sweeney, A., Filson, B., Kennedy, A., Collinson, L., & Gillard, S. (2018). A paradigm shift: Relationships in trauma-informed mental health services. BJPsych Advances, 24(5), 319-333. doi:10.1192/bja.2018.29         Lyadurai, L., Blackwell, S., Meiser-Stedman, R. et al. Preventing intrusive memories after trauma via a brief intervention involving Tetris computer game play in the emergency department: a proof-of-concept randomized controlled trial. Mol Psychiatry 23, 674–682 (2018). https://doi.org/10.1038/mp.2017.23   -Notable Mentions:         Stephen Porges, PhD. www.stephenporges.com         Pat Ogden, PhD.  https://sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org/         Janina Fisher, PhD. https://janinafisher.com/         Peter Levine, PhD. https://traumahealing.org/         Mare Chapman, MA. https://www.marechapman.com/         Paul D. MacLean, MD. (Triune Brain)   Produced by Jessica Warpula Schultz & Jeanne KolkerEdited by Jessica Warpula SchultzMusic by Jason A. Schultz

In this episode I speak with Alys, an experienced Trauma Specific Therapist and Social Worker specialising in children, young people and families who have experienced trauma, abuse, out of home care and the child protection system. Alys is also a yoga teacher trainer, combining yogic healing modalities with trauma counselling to provide holistic healing and self care opportunities, that increase resilience and supports people to access their internal resources to use in their unique recovery journeys. Links to resources mentioned in this week's episode: Lanktree & Briere, Treating Complex Trauma in Children and Their Families - https://us.sagepub.com/en-us/nam/treating-complex-trauma-in-children-and-their-families/book240702 Briere & Scott, Principles of Trauma Therapy - https://us.sagepub.com/en-us/nam/principles-of-trauma-therapy/book242990 Briere & Lanktree, Treating Complex Trauma in Adolescents and Young Adults - https://us.sagepub.com/en-us/nam/treating-complex-trauma-in-adolescents-and-young-adults/book234528 Briere's Child Abuse Trauma - https://us.sagepub.com/en-us/nam/child-abuse-trauma/book3308 Pat Ogden and the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute - https://sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org/ Dan Hughes and Dyadic Developmental Psychotherapy - http://www.danielhughes.org/ Help for the Helper: The Psychophysiology of Compassion Fatigue and Vicarious Trauma by Babette Rothschild - http://www.somatictraumatherapy.com/help-for-the-helper Integrating attachment theory and yoga with traumatic treatment (Diedre Fay) - https://dfay.com/ Yoga for emotional balance (Bo Forbes) - https://boforbes.com/ This episode's transcript can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19mr0SxKQ9O13__lwELkGQmVSs5PQfaSaOE1o_OmfgpU/edit?usp=sharing --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/socialworkspotlight/message

Jess and Jeanne, licensed mental health professionals, conclude their talk about the mind/body connection. Sharing information about the Polyvagal Theory, Sensorimotor Psychotherapy, and other trauma-informed approaches to wellbeing. Listeners will learn why safety is an essential component of mind/body work, how a person can begin to create safety, and how listening to the wisdom of they body is one of the first steps to healing.  Continue LearningThe Polyvagal Theory The Polyvagal Theory: Neurophysiological Foundations of Emotions, Attachment, Communication, and Self-regulation.  Stephen W. Porges, Ph.D. www.stephenporges.com Deb DanaPolyvagal Theory in Therapy: Engaging the Rhythm of Regulation.  Deborah A. Dana, LCSW Befriending Your Nervous System: Looking Through the Lens of the Polyvagal Theory. Deborah A. Dana, LCSW www.rhythmofregulation.com Pat OgdenSensorimotor Psychotherapy Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment. Pat Ogden & Janina FisherTrauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy. Pat Ogden, Kekuni Minton, Clare Pain www.sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org Neuroscience Neuroscience for Change: A Compassion-Based Program for Personal Transformation. Kelly McGonigal, Ph.D. Yoga Bo Forbes www.boforbes.com   Produced by Jessica Warpula Schultz & Jeanne KolkerEdited by Jessica Warpula SchultzMusic by Jason A. Schultz

Jess & Jeanne begin a conversation about what the mind/body connection is and why it's important. You'll learn how the brain differs from the mind, how the body works in relationship to our brain and nervous system, as well as how the body influences our mind, emotions, thoughts, and memories.  Continue LearningThe Polyvagal Theory The Polyvagal Theory: Neurophysiological Foundations of Emotions, Attachment, Communication, and Self-regulation.  Stephen W. Porges, Ph.D. www.stephenporges.com Deb DanaPolyvagal Theory in Therapy: Engaging the Rhythm of Regulation.  Deborah A. Dana, LCSW Befriending Your Nervous System: Looking Through the Lens of the Polyvagal Theory. Deborah A. Dana, LCSW www.rhythmofregulation.com Pat OgdenSensorimotor Psychotherapy Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment. Pat Ogden & Janina FisherTrauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy. Pat Ogden, Kekuni Minton, Clare Pain www.sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org Neuroscience Neuroscience for Change: A Compassion-Based Program for Personal Transformation. Kelly McGonigal, Ph.D.  Produced by Jessica Warpula Schultz & Jeanne KolkerEdited by Jessica Warpula SchultzMusic by Jason A. Schultz

Your body plays a major role in trauma resolution. Since we experience everything through our bodies, they have a significant correlation to our psychological health. Joining Timothy J. Hayes, Psy.D. today is Dr. Pat Ogden, the Founder of Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute (SPI). Sensorimotor Psychotherapy is a body-centered treatment of unresolved trauma. Dr. Pat shares stories of how this form of therapy helped her patients walk through the traumatic events of their past and release the tension from their bodies. Discover how you can have better emotional and mental health. Join in the conversation to learn more. Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share!Here’s How »Join the On Your Mind Community today:journeysdream.orgTwitterInstagramFacebookYouTube

Today we talk to Dr Pat Ogden, whom many of you in the trauma field will be familiar with. She's been on the leading edge of somatic trauma therapy for years and her Sensorimotor Psychotherapy® has been a wonderful addition to the trauma therapists intervention options. We loved catching up with Pat, getting a little bit of history, and talking about her work.  For more details, and a discount coupon for her latest course Dissociation and the Body - please go to the landing page for this episode. Please leave a review! (Reviews are fabulously important to us! On your podcast player you should find an option to review at the bottom of the main page for the podcast - after the list of available episodes) - Here's a link for iTunes.   Thanks for listening! Support this show by subscribing to The Science of Psychotherapy Please leave an honest review on iTunes and please subscribe to our show.  You can also find our podcast at: The Science of Psychotherapy Podcast Homepage If you want more great science of Psychotherapy please visit our website thescienceofpsychotherapy.com

2020 has been such a massive and eventful year for all of us in the world, especially with the threat of COVID still lingering. On the flip side, it brought an opportunity for all of us to connect through different means and paved a new way to essentially enrich relationships, build connections and bring us closer together. As we enter the New Year, we thought a compilation of insight and wisdom from our guests would be a great way to get inspired and feel renewed. Show notes: ● Dr. Joan Borysenko - 01:38 ● Dr. John Demartini - 02:00 ● Dr. Sara Gottfried - 02:37 ● Dr. Stan Tatkin - 03:31 ● Dr. James Greenblatt - 04:32 ● Marc David - 05:04 ● Dr. Rick Doblin - 06:15 ● Pat Ogden - 06:57 ● Dr. Rakesh Jain - 07:31 ● Dr. Diane Poole Heller - 09:02 ● Resmaa Menakem - 09:29 ● Dr. Richard Schwartz - 09:39 ● Marcela Ot’alora - 09:46 ● Gurudev (Yogi Amrit Desai) - 10:10 ● Beatrice Chestnut - 10:26 ● Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk - 10:49 ● Sharon Salzberg - 11:28 ● Tami Simon - 11:36 ● Jason Garner - 11:47 ● Tirza Firestone - 12:39 ● Dr. Gabor Maté - 12:59 ● Dr. Stephanie Dueger - 13:17 ● Dr. William Richards - 13:30 ● Dr. Rohini Kanniganti - 13:44 To learn more visit: ● www.psychiatryinstitute.com/podcast/ ● www.psychiatryinstitute.com ***** How you can help others in a big way... If you enjoy the Higher Practice Podcast, please leave a quick review on the Apple Podcast app. It makes a big difference in getting the word out to other people who will benefit from this podcast. Simply, click on the show on your podcast app>scroll down to the bottom of all the episodes>in the ratings and reviews section tap stars to rate>click write a review. Want more? For show notes and more information, visit https://psychiatryinstitute.com/podcast/ Sign up for our newsletter and to receive ongoing information for optimal mental health: email.psychiatryinstitute.com If you’re a provider visit https://psychiatryinstitute.com/ If you’re interested in patient care visit: www.psychiatrycenters.com For provider education reach out to: info@psychiatryinstitute.com For patient care reach out to: info@psychiatrycenters.com

Welcome to The Endow Podcast! This podcast is a forum for women to foster conversations about the intellectual life and intentional community for the cultivation of the feminine genius. On this episode, Simone Rizkallah, Director of Program Growth, interviews Adam Young on the drama of your story, the call to judge, and how to avoid "editing" your anger, irritation and disappointments in prayer. Adam Young's approach to therapy has been shaped primarily by Dan Allender, John Eldredge, Daniel Siegel, Allan Schore, Pat Ogden, and Bessel van der Kolk. He is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) with Master degrees in Social Work (Virginia Commonwealth University) and Divinity (Emory University). He completed extensive training with The Allender Center, including the Certificate Program and Externship Program. He is certified in EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing).https://adamyoungcounseling.comWhat's on your mind and heart? Let our host, Simone Rizkallah, know by connecting with her and The Endow Team on social media!Facebook at www.facebook.com/endowgroupsInstagram at www.instagram.com/endowgroupsWant to start your own Endow Group? Learn more by visiting our website at www.endowgroups.org or reach out to us at info@endowgroups.org. We look forward to serving you!

For centuries, millions of people have suffered tremendously with trauma and its negative effects and will continue to do so until we crack the secret on how to effectively rid ourselves of this illness. With the ongoing threat of COVID as well as the worsening political upheavals in society, we continue to see this happening to a lot of people. Trauma has certainly damaged countless lives both physically and psychologically. But what if there is hope for healing, not just in the short term but permanently? What if there was a revolutionary approach to combat trauma through body therapy and mindfulness practices? In today’s episode, we’ll be tackling just that. We are extremely delighted to be joined by a celebrated author, co-founder of the Hakomi Institute and the founder of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute (SPI), Dr. Pat Ogden. Join us as we discuss how trauma finds its way into our bodies causing us to show its ugly effects in society collectively and how we can effectively heal ourselves through interesting habits that we can do at home and much more. Shownotes: Body Centered Psychotherapy Why This Approach Is So Unique Understanding How Trauma Infiltrates the Body Mindfulness and Implicit Memory Interesting Regulation Practices to do at Home The Importance of Relationships Couples Therapy: Reading Body Language Developing a Dynamic Relationship To learn more about Dr. Pat Ogden: sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org/about/ facebook.com/SensorimotorPsychotherapyInstitute/ linkedin.com/school/sensorimotor-psychotherapy/ youtube.com/channel/UC3IqXIYbjefSmQKMxbbZc5Q *** How you can help others in a big way... If you enjoy the Higher Practice Podcast, please leave a quick review on the Apple Podcast app. It makes a big difference in getting the word out to other people who will benefit from this podcast. Simply, click on the show on your podcast app>scroll down to the bottom of all the episodes>in the ratings and reviews section tap stars to rate>click write a review. Want more? For show notes and more information, visit https://psychiatryinstitute.com/podcast/ Sign up for our newsletter and to receive ongoing information for optimal mental health: email.psychiatryinstitute.com If you’re a provider visit www.psychaitryinstitute.com If you’re interested in patient care visit: https://psychiatryinstitute.com/ For provider education reach out to:  info@psychiatryinstitute.com For patient care reach out to: info@psychiatrycenters.com  

It’s a human urge to return to normalcy after a cataclysmic event. But if we rush back to normalcy without taking a beat, without metabolizing what we’ve all been going through, that can create profound psychological issues. Dr. Pat Ogden is an expert in trauma and a pioneer in what’s called “somatic psychology” (which I will let her explain). In this interview we talk about whether we’re all traumatized by what we’ve been through in recent months; the impact of trauma on the brain and body; how to handle and heal from our trauma; and we also branch out into her fascinating views on productivity. There’s a lot here. Where to find Pat Ogden online: Website: https://sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org/ Book Mentioned: Trauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy by Pat Ogden, Kekuni Minton, Clare Pain - https://www.amazon.com/Trauma-Body-Sensorimotor-Psychotherapy-Interpersonal/dp/0393704572 We care deeply about supporting you in your meditation practice, and feel that providing you with high quality teachers is one of the best ways to do that. Customers of the Ten Percent Happier app say they stick around specifically for the range of teachers, and the deep wisdom they impart, to help them deepen their practice. For anyone new to the app, we've got a special discount just for you. If you're an existing subscriber, we thank you for your support. To claim your discount, visit tenpercent.com/august Other Resources Mentioned: White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo - https://www.amazon.com/White-Fragility-People-About-Racism/dp/0807047414 Kimberlé Crenshaw - https://aapf.org/kimberle-crenshaw Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome - https://www.joydegruy.com/post-traumatic-slave-syndrome Dr. Mark Epstein - http://markepsteinmd.com/ The Theory of Structural Dissociation - https://did-research.org/origin/structural_dissociation/ Naropa University - https://www.naropa.edu/ Additional Resources: Ten Percent Happier Live: https://tenpercent.com/live Coronavirus Sanity Guide: https://www.tenpercent.com/coronavirussanityguide Free App access for Frontline Workers: https://tenpercent.com/care Full Shownotes: https://www.tenpercent.com/podcast-episode/pat-ogden-276

It's a human urge to return to normalcy after a cataclysmic event. But if we rush back to normalcy without taking a beat, without metabolizing what we've all been going through, that can create profound psychological issues. Dr. Pat Ogden is an expert in trauma and a pioneer in what's called “somatic psychology” (which I will let her explain). In this interview we talk about whether we're all traumatized by what we've been through in recent months; the impact of trauma on the brain and body; how to handle and heal from our trauma; and we also branch out into her fascinating views on productivity. There's a lot here. Where to find Pat Ogden online: Website: https://sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org/ Book Mentioned: Trauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy by Pat Ogden, Kekuni Minton, Clare Pain - https://www.amazon.com/Trauma-Body-Sensorimotor-Psychotherapy-Interpersonal/dp/0393704572 We care deeply about supporting you in your meditation practice, and feel that providing you with high quality teachers is one of the best ways to do that. Customers of the Ten Percent Happier app say they stick around specifically for the range of teachers, and the deep wisdom they impart, to help them deepen their practice. For anyone new to the app, we've got a special discount just for you. If you're an existing subscriber, we thank you for your support. To claim your discount, visit tenpercent.com/august Other Resources Mentioned: White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo - https://www.amazon.com/White-Fragility-People-About-Racism/dp/0807047414 Kimberlé Crenshaw - https://aapf.org/kimberle-crenshaw Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome - https://www.joydegruy.com/post-traumatic-slave-syndrome Dr. Mark Epstein - http://markepsteinmd.com/ The Theory of Structural Dissociation - https://did-research.org/origin/structural_dissociation/ Naropa University - https://www.naropa.edu/ Additional Resources: Ten Percent Happier Live: https://tenpercent.com/live Coronavirus Sanity Guide: https://www.tenpercent.com/coronavirussanityguide Free App access for Frontline Workers: https://tenpercent.com/care Full Shownotes: https://www.tenpercent.com/podcast-episode/pat-ogden-276

“The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes” Marcel Proust Ett paradigmskifte – Hedy Schleifer Med kroppen full av energi, värme och bubblande glädje vill Eva bjuda in dig till att lyssna på ett spännande podcastsamtal när hon möter hennes vän, kollega och tidigare lärare Hedy Schleifer. Hedy är psykoterapeut och grundare av: Hedy Schleifer – Master Relationship Builder. Med över 40 års erfarenhet av relationsbyggande har hon inspirerat hundratusentals människor över hela världen. Alltid med fantastiska resultat! I början av 90-talet utbildade sig Eva till parterapeut med hjälp av denna begåvade och berörande kvinna. Hon var även den terapeut som hjälpte Eva och hennes man Sven när dom badade i träsket av konflikter. Precis som ett bra fotbollslag består av olika begåvade spelare, bygger Evas ”kunskapslag” på en mängd duktiga lärare, inspiratörer, vänner och forskare: Hedy Schleifer, Pat Love, Dan Siegel, Bassel van der Kolk, Pat Ogden, Allan Shore, Louis Cozolino, Jack Panksepp, Lars-Eric Uneståhl m.fl. Alla dessa framgångsrika personer har format hennes sätt att arbeta idag. Den som tydligast varit hennes främste lärare har varit hennes man Sven, hennes nära relationer och alla tusentals klienter som besökt hennes klinik. Evas kompetens vilar helt enkelt, på alla dessa begåvade personers axlar. Välkommen till att lyssna på Eva och Hedy. Tillsammans pratar de om utveckling, transformation och paradigmskiften. P.S. Besök gärna Hedy på www.hedyschleifer.com

Be You Parenting with Mary Dravis-Parrish While there is a lot of talk these days about mental health, many parents are confused about what to look for and how to talk to their teens about mental health. There are ways to talk to with your kids that will empower them and you. Learn what you need to know about mental health; what it is and why it matters, as well as what to say and what not to say to empower and educate your teen and you. My guest, Sierra Frost, knows about mental/emotional health personally, professionally, and passionately. Sierra Frost works with adolescent and adult individuals through coaching and workshops, as well as speaking events with organizations to understand topics such as trauma, mental health, and human development. Sierra specializes in coaching people to recover from childhood adversity or long-term patterns caused by trauma. Her mission is to revolutionize mental health in America by empowering everyday communities with accessible support and recovery skills. She is thrilled to bring her expertise to empower you to confidently care for yourself and your loved ones. Sierra has experience in the fields of education, juvenile justice, social services, behavioral health, yoga, massage therapy, and entrepreneurship. She has also studied and practices related modalities such as mindfulness and neurology, CBT, DBT, NLP, Mental Health First Aid, Trauma Informed Care, and various communication training. She has worked with mental health professionals, legal professionals, law enforcement, and educators to incorporate mental and emotional supports into their work. Sierra has taught support skills and practices to clients in behavioral health organizations, addiction recovery facilities, homeless shelters, jails, and recovery centers for girls impacted by sex-trafficking. Sierra is originally from Homer, AK and has studied with: Yoga for 12-Step-Recovery, Yoga Prison Project, Mental Health First Aid USA, Passion Yoga School, Healing Arts Institute, Alaska Pacific University, Child Development Associate Council, and leaders in the field of trauma and somatic experiences such as Bessel Van der Kolk, Peter Levine, Dan Siegel, Pat Ogden, and Ruth Buczynski through the NICABM. When Sierra is not teaching, coaching, and speaking, you can find her writing, kickboxing, volunteering, and traveling the world.    invitationwellness@gmail.com   http://www.speakwithsierra.com/ Mary’s Book: Empowered Parents Empowering Kids Purchase on Amazon.com   Amazon.co.uk    Amazon.ca Barnes&Noble   Access Shop https://www.beyouparenting.com/ ~ More with Be You Parenting with Mary Dravis-Parrish ~ Would you like to live without the guilt, doubt, fear, worry, disrespect and frustration that many parents take on? Mary Dravis-Parrish is here each week to guide you through the woes, challenges, questions and possibilities of parenting that will create more ease and confidence. Families today are not just traditional families; they now include single parents, parents of the same gender, as well as grandparents raising grandchildren. Mary knows that regardless of the structure of a family, families can thrive, be happy and successful in today’s world. She also knows that the world will be a much better place when family life focuses on empowering parents and kids to be the unique caring beings they are meant to be.  Mary provides simple strategies and techniques that allow each family to raise children that feel confident stepping into their unique gifts and talents to offer to the world.  She utilizes her teaching experience along with her natural talents for getting to the root of what is causing distress, discord and dis-ease in family living. https://www.beyouparenting.com/    To get more of Be You Parenting with Mary Dravis-Parrish, be sure to visit the archives page for replays of all the shows here: https://www.inspiredchoicesnetwork.com/podcast/be-you-parenting-with-mary-dravis-parrish/  

Francesca Maximé sits down for a conversation with Pat Ogden, pioneer in somatic psychology, about applying mindfulness towards the ways that our bodies and minds relate to trauma.Pat Ogden, PhD, is a pioneer in somatic psychology. Pat is both Founder and Education Director of Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute. An internationally recognized school specializing in somatic–cognitive approaches for the treatment of posttraumatic stress disorder and attachment disturbances. Learn more at sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org

Francesca Maximé sits down for a conversation with somatic psychologist Pat Ogden about applying mindfulness towards the ways that our bodies and minds relate to trauma. Pat Ogden, PhD, is a pioneer in somatic psychology. Pat is both Founder and Education Director of Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute. An internationally recognized school specializing in somatic–cognitive approaches for the treatment of posttraumatic stress disorder and attachment disturbances. Learn more at sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org Getting Unstuck with Mindfulness Pat talks about the Embedded Relational Mindfulness practice that uses with her clients. Francesca and Pat talk about how mindfulness can be used to bring awareness to our experiences. “The way that we organize experience drives the content of our lives.” – Pat Ogden Learn more about healing trauma through Somatic Experiencing with Dr. Peter A. Levine on Ep. 5 of the ReRooted Podcast Standing Tall (7:15) Francesca and her guest discuss our relationship to past trauma. How does trauma relate to the posture of the body? What is the potential for Relational Mindfulness to address trauma linked to our bodies? Relational Alchemy (27:35) Pat speaks about the principles that guide our lives. What is the importance of acknowledging and working with these unique principles? “I think therapists don’t really consider the philosophical and spiritual principles that inform the context that we work in.” – Pat Ogden What Privilege Means (41:15) How do the issues of privilege and race factor into trauma and how we relate to experience? Pat and Francesca look at how progress in this area relates to our individual and collective journey of awakening.

In this episode we go into more detail about trauma and trauma treatment. Enjoy skill time where we engage our five senses and learn to stay present when we’re overwhelmed. Please take some time to review the work and research of Bessel Van Der Kolk, Pat Ogden, Janina Fisher, Judith Herman, Barbara Rothschild, and polyvagal theory! Thanks for listening, and take care of yourselves! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Pat Ogden, PhD, is our guest to explain sensorimotor psychotherapy. She tells her story of learning about trauma work, and the recognition of the body as an ally in healing. She explains how somatic resources help stabilize the nervous system. Trigger warning for the example of thinking about how your body feels when your remember being abused (a father specifically is used in the example, but no abuse story is detailed at all). She explains how safe touch can be so healing, and how being mindful of our bodies not only can help us stay present, but also help us function differently in now-time.

Are you just going through the motions of daily life in survival mode? Or are you living a passionate, vibrant, and soulful life where you are thriving? Most of my life was spent in survival mode aside from a few “exciting” moments each year. I felt zombie-like, and often asked my self “is this all there is to life?” I would observe other people online and even friends who seemed to be so full of life, energized and excited about their day. What I concluded is that something was terribly wrong with me (which there wasn’t, but that was my low self-worth MO that it must be my fault). If you can relate to my story or know someone who can, this podcast episode will be life changing (so share it!). I brought on my personal empowerment coach, who has developed a unique approach and uncovering subconscious soul wounds that prevent us from thriving. Truly I didn’t even know thriving was in the cards for me until I did this deeper work. Ana Maria is a trauma informed personal empowerment coach – she creates an inertia of healing alchemy from the inside of your soul by building you up to keep moving forward, with a healthy dose of self care, love and compassion. She is passionate about empowering her clients using a kind, gentle yet assertive mindset towards their growth. She has an innate felt sense of intuition with whomever she is interacting with. She can pick up on subtle emotions and feelings and gently guide her clients towards the core of their soul’s desires. Ana Maria listens not only to her clients’ spoken words, but she also listens to their body’s language and the signals that are released by their subconscious.  She took the ‘Trauma Treatment training in Interventions for Deep Healing’ with industry experts: Bessel van der Kolk, Peter Levine, Janina Fisher, Pat Ogden, and Interpersonal Neurobiology of Trauma Resolution with the clinical professor of psychiatry Dr. Dan Siegel. She also attended numerous neuroscience, psychotherapy and spirituality summits in the categories of healing and resilience, and became a licensed facilitator for Danielle LaPorte's Desire Map method which she finds to be a fabulous tool in giving our innermost selves a voice, the space to be heard, the opportunity to be honored. You can connect with Ana at: Her website is www.lifebutterflyeffect.com Email: lifebutterflyeffect@gmail.com Instagram: @lifebutterflyeffect Facebook page: Life Butterfly Effect Welcome to ProjectME the Podcast with your host Tiffany Carter, who takes the mystery out of making BIG money. A former NBC and CBS TV journalist, turned multi-millionaire entrepreneur, teaching you all things wealth, health, worth, and business. You can follow Tiffany on Instagram @projectme_with_tiffany  on Facebook @projectmewithtiffany and watch her TV episodes on ProjectME TV with Tiffany Carter on YouTube.

Welcome to episode 149 of the Therapy Chat Podcast with host Laura Reagan, LCSW-C. Today Laura revisits her chat with Dr. Pat Ogden about bottom-up processing using sensorimotor psychotherapy.  SPI is a professional educational organization that designs and provides the highest-level trainings and services to serve a global network of mental health practitioners, and for the public at large. Seeking to enhance human relationships, our paradigm is substantiated by interpersonal neurobiology and impelled by mindfulness applied in interactive contexts. Sensorimotor Psychotherapy draws from somatic therapies, neuroscience, attachment theory, and cognitive approaches, as well as from the Hakomi Method. Since the first course in Sensorimotor Psychotherapy was offered in the early 1980’s, it has gained international acclaim. The first book on Sensorimotor Psychotherapy®, Trauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy, published in the Norton Series on Interpersonal Neurobiology in 2006 gained international acclaim. The sequel to the first book, Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment was published in spring of 2015. Dr. Ogden is currently developing Sensorimotor Psychotherapy for children, adolescents, families, and couples with colleagues. Several research studies to gather data on the effectiveness of SP are underway or in the process of publication at the following institutions: Maudsley Hospital (London, UK) Womens’ College Hospital (Toronto, Ontario) Modum Bad Outpatient Clinic (Oslo, Norway)  Resources: https://www.sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org Please consider supporting Therapy Chat by becoming a member on Patreon! Just $1 a month would make a huge impact to keep Therapy Chat going strong! To learn more: https://patreon.com/TherapyChat - members get special perks and swag too! Register now for the next Daring Way™ and Relational Equine Assisted Learning retreat: https://laurareaganlcswc.com/retreat Leave me a message via Speakpipe by going to https://therapychatpodcast.com and clicking on the green Speakpipe button. Thank you for listening to Therapy Chat! Please be sure to go to iTunes and leave a rating and review, subscribe and download episodes. You can also download the Therapy Chat app on iTunes by clicking here.

A Practical Technique to Calm and Confidence with Guest Richard Hill Calm the chaos of your mind by trying out these ideas and this technique with yourself or if you are a clinician, your patients. The Mirroring Hand technique teaches you to use your natural problem solving to manage stress and anxiety and cultivate calm. In this episode we dive into practical techniques for building your own growing edge and using your natural felt-sense of security. Discover how to tap into your inner wisdom and calm by using curiosity about your own body to cultivate focus and healing. Join psychotherapist and author Richard Hill in an over-the-pond discussion with co-host Dr. Ann Kelley about the essentials behind his “mirroring hands” technique to treat dysregulation and self-defeating patterns. Guest Richard Hill is a practicing psychotherapist, author, and educator. He is President of the Global Association of Interpersonal Neurobiology Study’s (GAINS), director of the Mindscience Institute, and managing editor of The Neuropsychotherapist. He has published several books (see show notes for titles and links), as well as numerous articles, journal papers and book chapters. If you are interested in more on treatment and the body check out our Mindfulness section and most recently, check out our interview with Dr. Pat Ogden, of the Sensorimotor Institute: Episode 65 0:00-15:00 Introduction Understanding security as a natural sense of well being. How does a person/patient actually know if they’re okay or not? It’s not controlled by our cognitive understanding but is a natural, felt sense – working with traumas, understanding the functionality of a system even if there are unhealthy tendencies How to bring healing and hope into internal systems, “The healing state”: disruptive consciousness vs. integrating state Three fundamental elements of natural problem solving and healing: 1) Focus attention 2) Move into a state of curiosity 3) Nascent possibility — Mirroring hands technique demonstration 15:00-30:00 Mirroring hands continued – Problem of the therapeutic process getting in the way of clients working, the healing has to occur within physically feeling “the need” 30:00-45:00 Hill’s anecdotes about patient experiences with mirroring hands The key is helping someone find a focus and become curious The three frames of curiosity The idea of mindfulness and the “sunset”   RESOURCES: Richard Hill Contact:  www.richardhillau.com The Practitioner’s Guide to Mirroring Hands: A Client-Responsive Therapy that Facilitates Natural Problem-Solving and Mind-Body Healing by Richard Hill and Ernest Rossi. Hill is also President of the Global Association of Interpersonal Neurobiology Studies (GAINS), director of the Mindscience Institute and, Managing Editor of The Neuropsychotherapist. His other books include, Choose Hope, Discover the Magic Within and How the ‘Real World’ Is Driving Us Crazy! as well as numerous articles, journal papers and book chapters. Affect Regulation and the Repair of the Self (Norton Series on Interpersonal Neurobiology) Alan Schore, one of the fathers of interpersonal neurobiology. Want to support this work and stay in touch? Join our email list, subscribe to Tunes here or join our Facebook page here to get updated popular articles on these subjects of interest. Biggest help of all is to leave us a review, they are so useful as we go forward fine-tuning what is most helpful for our audience and it literally inspires us to keep going in this hobby of love! Be sure you’ve checked out our free video, Modern Adult Attachment 101 to learn more and to easily share the basics of this science and what to do with it with others!   Tweet

Calm the chaos of your mind by trying out these ideas and this technique with yourself or if you are a clinician, your patients. The Mirroring Hand technique teaches you to use your natural problem solving to manage stress and anxiety. In this episode we dive into practical techniques for building your own growing edge and using your natural felt-sense of security. Discover how to tap into your inner wisdom by using curiosity about your own body to cultivate focus and healing. Join psychotherapist and author Richard Hill in an over-the-pond discussion with co-host Dr. Ann Kelley about the essentials behind his “mirroring hands” technique to treat dysregulation and self-defeating patterns. Guest Richard Hill is a practicing psychotherapist, author, and educator. He is President of the Global Association of Interpersonal Neurobiology Study’s (GAINS), director of the Mindscience Institute, and managing editor of The Neuropsychotherapist. He has published several books (see show notes for titles and links), as well as numerous articles, journal papers and book chapters. If you are interested in more on treatment and the body check out our Mindfulness section and most recently, check out our interview with Dr. Pat Ogden, of the Sensorimotor Institute:  (https://www.therapistuncensored.com/tu65/) 0:00-15:00 Introduction Understanding security as a natural sense of well being. How does a person/patient actually know if they’re okay or not? It’s not controlled by our cognitive understanding but is a natural, felt sense – working with traumas, understanding the functionality of a system even if there are unhealthy tendencies How to bring healing and hope into internal systems, “The healing state”: disruptive consciousness vs. integrating state Three fundamental elements of natural problem solving and healing: 1) Focus attention 2) Move into a state of curiosity 3) Nascent possibility — Mirroring hands technique demonstration 15:00-30:00 Mirroring hands continued – Problem of the therapeutic process getting in the way of clients working, the healing has to occur within physically feeling “the need” 30:00-45:00 Hill’s anecdotes about patient experiences with mirroring hands The key is helping someone find a focus and become curious The three frames of curiosity The idea of mindfulness and the “sunset”   RESOURCES: Richard Hill Contact:   www.richardhillau.com (https://www.richardhill.com.au) The Practitioner’s Guide to Mirroring Hands: A Client-Responsive Therapy that Facilitates Natural Problem-Solving and Mind-Body Healing (https://www.amazon.com/Practitioners-Guide-Mirroring-Hands-client-responsive/dp/1785832468)  by Richard Hill and Ernest Rossi. Hill is also President of the Global Association of Interpersonal Neurobiology Studies (GAINS), director of the Mindscience Institute and, Managing Editor of The Neuropsychotherapist (https://www.neuropsychotherapist.com) . His other books include, (https://www.amazon.com/How-Real-World-Driving-Crazy/dp/0958089019) as well as numerous articles, journal papers and book chapters. Affect Regulation and the Repair of the Self (https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=V3AuW6OxCZKGsQXY7piQCA&q=affect+regulation+and+the+origin+of+the+self&oq=affect+regulation&gs_l=psy-ab.3.4.0l10.1013.4476.0.6698.18.10.0.7.7.0.128.1027.4j6.10.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.17.1118.0..0i131k1j0i10k1.0.jYjgJu2VL2k) (Norton Series on Interpersonal Neurobiology) Alan Schore, one of the fathers of interpersonal neurobiology. Want to support this work and stay in touch? join our Facebook page here (https://www.facebook.com/austinshrinks/)  to get updated popular articles on these subjects of interest. Biggest help of all is to leave us a review, they are so useful as we go forward fine-tuning what is most helpful for our audience and... Support this podcast

Sensorimotor Psychotherapy We have unconscious stories about ourselves and the world held in our mind/body. Learn how becoming curious about your body can have a huge impact on your sense of self.  Body attunement + conscious reflection (left/right, top/bottom integration) are hallmark markers of secure functioning. Tap into your own body as a deep and abiding source of information and means of finding self-understanding and closer connection through sensorimotor psychotherapy. Guest Dr. Pat Ogden is a pioneer in somatic psychology, co-founder of Hakomi, founder of the Sensorimotor Institute, and author of several book on Sensorimotor Psychotherapy (see show notes for links). She joins co-host Sue Marriott LCSW, CGP in a discussion of the principles of sensorimotor therapy which is informed by the richness of developmental psychology, neuro-affective research, and mindfulness. Very importantly, they also get into a thoughtful discussion of multiculturalism and implicit unconscious majority bias in the mental health field. The natural healing force within each one of us is the greatest force in getting well.  –Hippocrates  The body always leads us home . . . if we can simply learn to trust sensation and stay with it long enough for it to reveal appropriate action, movement, insight, or feeling. — Pat Ogden   0:00-15:00 Intro, Pat’s initial interest in psychotherapy, somatic therapy and the polyvagal theory Rhythm and attunement through yoga and dance The importance of mindfulness in relation to the body, posture as an indicator, philosophical principles   15:00-30:00 The body as a source of knowledge and information Interconnectedness of principles, understanding “unity” across different cultures Gene expression, cortisol levels upon waking and collapsed/immobilized posture Understanding trauma from a white dominant perspective and marginalized perspective   30:00-45:00 “Window of tolerance”, the modulation model, finding the middle ground between hyper arousal and threshold of any arousal Trying not to stick with formula when understanding an individual Implicit bias, identifying racism Key principles   45:00-60:00 Decoding humility as therapists Advice for non-therapists Identifying ailments in your body and actually doing something to correct it rather than just hoping it’ll get better (e.g. posture, breathing, etc.). Keeping mindfulness in the body in the moment. Become curious about your body. Wrap up and outro Like this and want more? Dive deeper by checking out the resources below: Resources: Sensorimotor Psychotherapy, Interventions for Trauma and Attachment by Pat Ogden & Janina Fisher Trauma and the Body A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy by Pat Ogden et al Sensorimotor Institute – articles and resources, Pat Ogden Director and Founder Accessing the Healing Power of the Vagus Nerve Self-Help Excersizes for Anxiety Trauma Depression and Autism by Stanley Rosenberg Want to support this work and stay in touch? Join our email list, subscribe to Tunes here or join our Facebook page here to get updated popular articles on these subjects of interest. Biggest help of all is to leave us a review, they are so useful as we go forward fine-tuning what is most helpful for our audience and it literally inspires us to keep going in this hobby of love! Be sure you’ve checked out our free video, Modern Adult Attachment 101 to learn more and to easily share the basics of this science and what to do with it with others!     Tweet

We have unconscious stories about ourselves and the world held in our mind/body. Learn how becoming curious about your body can have a huge impact on your sense of self.  Body attunement + conscious reflection (left/right, top/bottom integration) are hallmark markers of secure functioning. Tap into your own body as a deep and abiding source of information and means of finding self-understanding and closer connection. Guest Dr. Pat Ogden is a pioneer in somatic psychology, co-founder of Hakomi, founder of the Sensorimotor Institute, and author of several book on Sensorimotor Psychotherapy (see show notes for links). She joins co-host Sue Marriott LCSW, CGP in a discussion of the principles of sensorimotor therapy which is informed by the richness of developmental psychology, neuro-affective research, and mindfulness. Very importantly, they also get into a thoughtful discussion of multiculturalism and implicit unconscious majority bias in the mental health field.     The natural healing force within each one of us is the greatest force in getting well.  –Hippocrates The body always leads us home . . . if we can simply learn to trust sensation and stay with it long enough for it to reveal appropriate action, movement, insight, or feeling. — Pat Ogden   0:00-15:00  Intro, Pat’s initial interest in psychotherapy, somatic therapy and the polyvagal theory  Rhythm and attunement through yoga and dance  The importance of mindfulness in relation to the body, posture as an indicator, philosophical principles    15:00-30:00  The body as a source of knowledge and information  Interconnectedness of principles, understanding “unity” across different cultures  Gene expression, cortisol levels upon waking and collapsed/immobilized posture  Understanding trauma from a white dominant perspective and marginalized perspective    30:00-45:00  “Window of tolerance”, the modulation model, finding the middle ground between hyper arousal and threshold of any arousal  Trying not to stick with formula when understanding an individual  Implicit bias, identifying racism  Key principles    45:00-60:00  Decoding humility as therapists  Advice for non-therapists  Identifying ailments in your body and actually doing something to correct it rather than just hoping it’ll get better (e.g. posture, breathing, etc.). Keeping mindfulness in the body in the moment. Become curious about your body.  Wrap up and outro  Like this and want more? Dive deeper by checking out the resources below: Resources: (https://amzn.to/2xshjUD) by Pat Ogden & Janina Fisher (https://amzn.to/2IPYJLn) by Pat Ogden et al (https://www.sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org/articles.html) – articles and resources, Pat Ogden Director and Founder (https://amzn.to/2seHtF3) by Stanley Rosenberg Want to support this work and stay in touch? join our Facebook page here (https://www.facebook.com/austinshrinks/)  to get updated popular articles on these subjects of interest. Biggest help of all is to leave us a review, they are so useful as we go forward fine-tuning what is most helpful for our audience and it literally inspires us to keep going in this hobby of love! Be sure you’ve checked out our free video,  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF7g4K8fDvo) to learn more and to easily share the basics of this science and what to do with it with others!     Tweet... Support this podcast

World-renowned trauma specialist and pioneer of somatic psychology, Dr Pat Ogden offers understanding and relief from trauma and various disorders using the intelligence of the body. We discover skills to relieve and better manage a variety of ailments and find a new way of living in our body in her Wisdom of the Body series at Wisemind.com

In this conversation, Pat Ogden talks about how we can use our own movement and body to enhance our psychological health. This conversation is available as a video, as well as audio only. Pat Ogden, PhD, is a pioneer in somatic psychology and the Founder of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute (SPI), an internationally recognized school specializing […]

In this conversation, Pat Ogden talks about how we can use our own movement and body to enhance our psychological health. This conversation is available as a video, as well as audio only. Audio only: Pat Ogden, PhD, is a pioneer in somatic psychology and the Founder of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute (SPI), an internationally recognized […]

Welcome to episode 121 of the Therapy Chat Podcast with host Laura Reagan, LCSW-C. Today Laura speaks about bottom-up processing using sensorimotor psychotherapy with Dr. Pat Ogden. SPI is a professional educational organization that designs and provides the highest-level trainings and services to serve a global network of mental health practitioners, and for the public at large. Seeking to enhance human relationships, our paradigm is substantiated by interpersonal neurobiology and impelled by mindfulness applied in interactive contexts. Sensorimotor Psychotherapy draws from somatic therapies, neuroscience, attachment theory, and cognitive approaches, as well as from the Hakomi Method. Since the first course in Sensorimotor Psychotherapy was offered in the early 1980’s, it has gained international acclaim. The first book on Sensorimotor Psychotherapy®, Trauma and the Body: A Sensorimotor Approach to Psychotherapy, published in the Norton Series on Interpersonal Neurobiology in 2006 gained international acclaim. The sequel to the first book, Sensorimotor Psychotherapy: Interventions for Trauma and Attachment was published in spring of 2015. Dr. Ogden is currently developing Sensorimotor Psychotherapy for children, adolescents, families, and couples with colleagues. Several research studies to gather data on the effectiveness of SP are underway or in the process of publication at the following institutions: Maudsley Hospital (London, UK) Womens’ College Hospital (Toronto, Ontario) Modum Bad Outpatient Clinic (Oslo, Norway)  Resources: https://www.sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org Leave me a message via Speakpipe by going to https://therapychatpodcast.com and clicking on the green Speakpipe button.  Sign up for waiting list for Trauma Therapist Community: https://www.laurareaganlcswc.com/soar/ Join Trauma Therapists Unite Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1774552256196397/?ref=bookmarks - Request to join, complete form with license information and join e-mail list! (For licensed therapists only) Join Therapy Chat Podcast Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TherapyChat/ - Request to join Thank you for listening to Therapy Chat! Please be sure to go to iTunes and leave a rating and review, subscribe and download episodes. You can also download the Therapy Chat app on iTunes by clicking here.  

When you’re in a “Yes” brain state, everything seems possible - you’re courageous, resilient, and creative. When you’re in a “No” brain state it’s nearly impossible to learn, grow, or interact in a positive way with others. This yes/no brain state impacts everything you do - how you meet the world, and, if you have children, how you show up as a parent. So how do you cultivate a “Yes” brain state in yourself? How do you teach the children in your life to recognize the signs of being in a “No” brain state - and, even better, show them how to shift back into a “Yes” brain? Today we’re talking with Dr. Dan Siegel, founder of interpersonal neurobiology and co-author (along with Tina Payne Bryson) of the new book “The Yes Brain: How to Cultivate Courage, Curiosity, and Resilience in Your Child.” His strategies for understanding your own reactivity will transform your relationships and your parenting. You can also help the children in your life understand their own emotional world, and show them how to come back online after big emotions get the best of them. Here is a link to episode 57 with Dan Siegel: Mastering Mindfulness in Your Relationship Transcript: Neil Sattin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Relationship Alive. This is your host Neil Sattin. How do you show up when there are kids involved? In other words, how do you bring what we know today about attachment and the best way to parent children into the context of your relationship so that whether it's your own children or you're entering a relationship where children already exist, you know the best way to show up to help kids interact with you in ways that are positive and to help them have successful outcomes? In other words, have lives where they feel happy and fulfilled and like they really know themselves well. These are the questions that we're going to cover in today's episode and we're going to talk about it in a way that not only gets at the heart of how we parent, but also how we ourselves show up to the equation. So we're not acting on our children or with our children mechanistically or like behaviorists trying to get them to do the right thing and jump through the right hoop. We're bringing to bear everything we know about our own emotional makeup and how we interact with the world to help our kids also have positive, alive interactions with the world, 'cause that's what we're all about on this show. Neil Sattin: In order to have this conversation, we're going to be talking with Dan Siegel, who is returning to the show after his last episode, which was all about mindsight. Today, we're going to talk about his latest book which is just coming out, co-written with Tina Payne Bryson, called "The Yes Brain: How to Cultivate Courage, Curiosity and Resilience in Your Child." And I have to laugh at that a little bit only because I feel like on this show we're often talking about how to cultivate courage, curiosity and resilience in each other and in ourselves in our relationships. So who better to have on this show than Dan Siegel, the father of interpersonal neurobiology, which is at the cutting edge of the science of how we relate and how the way that we relate affects our brains, our biochemistry and our ability to be healthy and alive and effective in the world and not crippled by anxiety or depression or disconnection. So Dan Siegel, thank you so much for joining us again today on Relationship Alive. Dan Siegel: Neil, it's an honor to be here with you. Neil Sattin: Great, great. I think a great place to start is at the end. And I like to start there only because sometimes it helps provide a really nice context for the overall conversation. And by the end, I'm thinking about the end of your book where you start talking about what is it that we're really after in children? How do we measure success and I'm wondering if you can talk for a moment about the kind of culture clash that's happening in terms of how we encourage this kind of external success and sometimes we're missing out on the internal success that The Yes Brain is all about. Dan Siegel: Well Neil, you've picked up on, I think, one of the central issues that Tina Bryson and I really wanted to address in The Yes Brain book and in our work as teachers and clinicians and in our life as parents and partners with our spouses, this idea of thinking deeply about what success is for ourselves and for our kids, is at the heart of a strategy for how you parent because if you're just going along with what in modern society you hear is a measure of success like what your numbers achievement is, like what kind of elite college you get into, or your bank account alone or the number of cars you have, or these things that you can measure in numerical ways that give us a feeling like, "I could always do more. I don't have enough fans on my social media page. I didn't get enough hits when I put out that photograph." You can always feel like there's someone who's doing better than you. We even have a set of circuits in the brain that are ready to give us a comparative stance toward other people and if success is measured by these very common, contemporary culture ways of saying, "Yes, I achieved this bank account and yes, I have this kind of car and yes, these are the number of things I have." Then it's a treadmill that continually leads to a feeling of inadequacy and I gotta do more and more and more and more. Dan Siegel: In contrast to that kind of treadmill that goes nowhere but that most of us get on, even as parents thinking about what we want for our kids, in contrast to that, think about the idea that someone could develop an internal compass that gave them a feeling of incredible gratitude for being alive, for the privilege of having this journey that we call a lifetime for the honor of connecting with other people. For the excitement of having curiosity for what the world and life is all about, for the way we can have this courage to actually try new things beyond what we're just given. And when life doesn't go the way we may have expected it to go, we have the resilience to bounce back. So that resilience and creativity and courage come from an internal compass, that you can help construct in a child as you parent them in a certain strategy that we call a 'Yes Brain' strategy. Dan Siegel: So in The Yes Brain book, what we've done is give a way to parent with discipline, with structure, so sometimes people hear the word Yes Brain and they'd go, "Oh, permissive parenting." And that's not at all what we mean. What we mean is that you as a parent have the opportunity to understand that the brain can get into a No Brain state. And that's where you're feeling threatened, where you feel inadequate, where you activate these survival reactions of fight, flight, freeze and faint, the four Fs, that come along with the reactive No Brain state. And in that No Brain state that comes when you say, "No" harshly several times, is the thing I do in workshops. That shuts down learning and shuts down your access even to connecting not just with other people but even to your own internal compass. Dan Siegel: And in contrast, that you can cultivate a Yes Brain state which is where a person feels open to new experience. Aware that life is about challenges and disciplined effort, and that sometimes what you accomplish with your effort isn't what you expected, and we call that a disappointment, some people call that an un-success or a failure. But instead of collapsing with that experience, you rise up and say, "Wow, here's an opportunity for more learning, for me to try again, for me to learn new skills." And then when you do that, there's where you get the courage and resilience, and really the ability to say, "Let me try things in new ways," which is what creativity is. Dan Siegel: So when we use those phrases, you know, creativity and courage and resilience, we don't use them lightly. We're literally defining them very carefully, talking about what's the brain state that enables them, and then giving parents strategies for basically creating a Yes Brain state, which develops the trait of courage, the trait of creativity, the trait of resilience, and that's what the whole approach is about. Neil Sattin: Now, are parents going to be able to create, or cultivate, a Yes Brain state for their kids without getting to know a Yes Brain state for themselves? Dan Siegel: Well, the first step is exactly like you're saying, Neil. It's about having the insight to feel inside yourself when you're reactive, that's the No Brain state versus when you're receptive, that's the Yes Brain state. And so the first step is to know yourself. And in a book I wrote, Parenting from the Inside Out, with Mary Hartzell, that book was all about the research finding that parents who do have self awareness, and especially awareness of how their own past shaped their present experience of being alive and their present experience of parenting. Those parents are actually the ones most likely to have a relationship with their child that cultivates security. Secure attachment is the best predictor of what we can do as parents to help our children have resilience, basically. Dan Siegel: So, when you look at that research, it shows that yeah, exactly like you're saying, "Self awareness is the starting place." And then once you have that self awareness, then you say, "Okay, well, that's my inner reflective skills, now what do I do with my parenting actions?" And that's where you get onto the Yes Brain approach where we say, "Okay, your goal as a parent is, he has to know what a Yes Brain feels like and a No Brain feels like, so that you learn from the inside out." How... If you are doing things with your child that are repeatedly creating a sense of threat, or your child is coming home from school and feeling that threat state. Not from anything you did but from what happens with their peers, or teachers, or being on the internet. There are all sorts of things that create a No Brain state. Whatever it is, your sensing it in yourself is the starting place so you can then sense it in your child. Dan Siegel: And then when you sense that fighting, fleeing, freezing or fainting, No Brain set of re-activities, then you can teach them how to move from a No Brain state to a Yes Brain state. So instead of being shut down in either rigidity or chaos, you actually allow them to transition into a Yes Brain state. And we teach these very practical steps on how to do that, so now your child is in a receptive Yes Brain state where learning happens, openness to new things happens, connecting with others happens, and even developing this internal compass which is basically a feeling in your gut and a feeling in your heart that gives you this literally felt experience that directs you even beyond words in your mind or beyond the thoughts you might have. It's kind of an internal compass, is what I call it, that is directing you to the true north of things that matter to you and things that are important in your relationships with others. Neil Sattin: So perhaps a great place to dive in would be to talk about the different characteristics of The Yes Brain and how we actually can... Some actual strategies as parents for helping children understand these concepts and then to put them into practice. And I really think this is great because so much of the work that we're doing here in relationship has been about helping people recognize when they are triggered. And we had Steve Porges back on the show in episode... What was it? 34, to talk about Polyvagal Theory and basically what's happening in our brains. But what I love about your book is that it makes it really practical to see not only how it happens in a child, but also ways to talk about it that get you some place else so you're not feeling trapped by your biology. So maybe we should start with balance. That's the first concept that you talk about. And so how do you convey what balance means? Dan Siegel: Right. Well, the first thing to say in terms of people who love acronyms is I'm kind of an acronym nut, so the whole book is an acronym of... Especially if you like cheese, it'll be easy to remember, it's Brie cheese. So the first of B-R-I-E, I don't know if you noticed that Neil, but is balance. And here the idea is just to start with I think that beautiful way you introduced this segment of our conversation is the sense of awareness we have of our internal state. In our interpersonal neurobiology series, Steve Porges has two books in our series, one is the Polyvagal Theory, the other is the Pocket Guide to The Polyvagal Theory, both beautiful books. And the idea is that you have a physiological state, which we can describe in a moment. And the key to making this practical in a parent's life is for you as a parent, or 'cause you were just talking about a relationship with... Close relationships, with you as a partner to become aware of what that internal state is. Dan Siegel: And a state basically means a pattern of energy and information flow that's happening. And we can talk about an inner state; so the internal milieu of your whole bodily system, including what happens in your head. So when we talk about the brain, it's really the embodied brain. It's never just the head alone. Even though we're all excited about the brain, 'cause we can now look beneath the skull. But it's really the embodied brain. But you even have a relational state, you can call that an interstate, but you'll probably think it's a highway going between Tennessee and another state. So these inner states and interstates are patterns of energy and information flow. So for example, in the relational world, I work with two wonderful researchers at MIT, Otto Scharmer and Peter Senge, and we're studying something that we call generative social fields. Dan Siegel: And in this work, what we're trying to do is identify relational fields - that is social connections, relationships, that we call a social field - that have a generative quality to them. That is, they promote curiosity, they promote creativity, they promote compassion, anything with a C. It's good stuff. I think they're what are called integrative fields. Integrative means you honor differences and promote linkages. That's my take on it, for the work Peter, Otto and I are doing. And if you look at it that way, you say, "Well, what is it really comprised of?" And from an interpersonal neurobiology point of view, the field I work in, energy and information flow is something that happens between us as well as within us. So you can look at a field, which is energy and information flow patterns, flow is change, information is a pattern of energy with symbolic value. Dan Siegel: Energy is this process that has CLIFF variables, another acronym that's contours, locations, intensities, frequencies and forms. And other aspects to it too, that you can look at how literally energy is being shared within a relationship. And then within us, we also have these energy and information of flow states. And these are the inner states, that Steve beautifully described in The Polyvagal Theory, that could activate the dorsal branch of the vagus nerve or the ventral branch. And you can also look at how not just the parasympathetic but the sympathetic system is involved, and to say it very... In an outline kind of way, when we're threatened, a system that Steve calls neuroception, that is constantly looking for, "Am I safe? Am I not safe? Am I safe? Am I not safe?" The neuroceptive monitoring process ascertains even without consciousness, "Right now, I am not safe. I am being threatened." And when it does that, it can go down one of two major pathways. One is an activating pathway that turns on the sympathetic branch of the autonomic nervous system. That's a branch that comes down from the head brain into the body. Neil Sattin: And that's fight, flight, right? Dan Siegel: That's fight, flight, freeze even. The freeze part is tightening up your muscles to figure out, "Should I fight or should I flee?" [chuckle] So it's like giving yourself temporary paralysis. It's a very activating system. I know in the past, everyone called that the third part of the system. But actually what Steve, and Pat Ogden and I did in a book I wrote called The Pocket Guide to Interpersonal Neurobiology - we wanted make it clear for people that there's actually four Fs. That you have an activating freeze, which is sympathetic, but then that is like the accelerator, but the fourth F is fainting or feigning death, which is when you activate the dorsal branch of the vagus nerve, you shut down heart rate, you shut down blood pressure, and literally, if it's extreme enough, you faint. And there's all sorts of benefits to collapsing, because basically, carnivores don't eat dead meat. So that if they think you're dead, and you fainted, they'll throw you around but they won't eat you, and you'll survive. The other is the telephone booth phenomenon, whereas we don't have telephone booths for the most part anymore because if people heard of bad news on a telephone call, and you fainted but stayed sitting up, then it would be terrible for you. So, that's not good. So you want to, if you're not getting blood flow going to you and you're fainting, you want to be flat. Neil Sattin: Oh, so if you're in a phone booth, keep the door open before... [chuckle] Dan Siegel: Keep the door open for sure [chuckle] absolutely. So anyway, those are just funny little stories, but the bottom line is you have this parasympathetic, dorsal branch of the vagus nerve that shuts you down, collapses in the faint... A faint situation when you feel totally helpless, that's one response to threat. And the other three are activating, freezing up; thought, fleeing or fighting. So the bottom line, any of those three are all threat reactions either shutting down or activating you to temporarily paralyze yourself, or run or fight. And these states are not open to new learning. So, when you move from those reactive states of a threat, which you can induce in a workshop, let's say by saying no, or if you're a parent and you're constantly screaming no at your kid, you're always creating a No Brain state. So a Yes Brain state is when your neuroceptive system, that's Porges' term, is assessing, "Okay, I'm no longer threatened." And then turns on Steve's beautiful phrase of a social engagement system that then relaxes your muscles instead of getting ready for fight or getting ready to run or tighten you up or collapsing you. Dan Siegel: You actually improve the way you're relaxing into what's going on. You're more receptive to what's happening. The bandwidth of sound that you can take in is much broader. You're open to engaging, not just with others but even with yourself, and you're ready to take risks and try out new things. And that's what learning depends on, and creativity depends on, and curiosity is nourished by this Yes Brain state. The Yes Brain state is the receptive, open, connecting state that we want to relate to our children and how we want to relate to our partners. And it's where optimal learning takes place. So as a parent, when you learn to feel the difference in yourself and in your partner and in your child of a Yes Brain versus a No Brain state, you learn to create that balance of a Yes Brain state. That's the balancing part. And the resilience of the BRIE acronym is you learn that when you're in a No Brain reactive state of either chaos or rigidity that tend to come with those states, you learn to help a person move from those reactive states of no, the No Brain, to the receptive state of a Yes Brain. And that's what resilience is - how you come back into this optimal receptive Yes Brain state. Neil Sattin: So in an ideal world with our kids, one, how are we opening them up to this awareness of what's happening within them? And two, what is our task, when... 'Cause how many times have you witnessed or maybe experienced this yourself, where your child is going offline, [chuckle] they're getting really frustrated or whatever it is, and the impulse is to want to intervene right there and say, "You know, you shouldn't do that or you shouldn't hit your sister or whatever it is"? And what you've just explained is exactly why children aren't going to be receptive to anything that's trying to explain to them why they should or shouldn't be doing whatever it is they're doing in that moment. So how do we invite our children into this knowledge, and how do we show up as parents when we start to sense that our children's neuroception is telling them that they're not safe for whatever reason? Dan Siegel: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Let's start with the first part of your question, which is just so clear and so elegant. The idea is as a parent to remember that there is no such thing as perfect parenting. There just isn't. And why in all my parenting books, I always put the ways I've goofed up as a parent and my kids are always dismayed. [laughter] Dan Siegel: In their terms, why am I sharing what a jerk I can be, [chuckle] 'cause I tell them, I want people to know, that no one does perfect parenting. Even if you're writing books on it, have your degrees in this area, you're board certified, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't matter. There's no such thing as perfect parenting. So we need to support each other on the journey, because when you've made a rupture to the direction you're trying to take, it's really important to make a repair. So that's the place to start. And you say, "Well, what's this whole rupture repair thing all about?" And so you start with this idea of a No Brain state. So, as you're saying Neil, if your child or an... You could translate everything we're saying, by the way, for a close friendship or a romance or anything. We're talking about the teaching part about it. That maybe a little different in parenting. But connecting it's the same fundamental issue. So when your child enters a No Brain state, fighting, fleeing, freezing, collapsing - they tend to go towards these rigid or chaotic states that can induce in you - as the parent - a similar state as you're present for them and attuned to them. That attunement is focusing on their internal world, you can begin to then resonate with that. Dan Siegel: Now, if you've not taken the time to become more skillful at being self aware- and what self aware means is nothing fancy - it means, what's your body's state right now? Are you reactive - in a No Brain state? Or are you receptive in a Yes Brain state? That's the first question. And if you're in a No Brain state, there's no good parenting that can happen when you're in a No Brain state. So you need to use your own balance and resilience and get yourself back into a Yes Brain state no matter what your child's doing. Now that's a skill you can develop, and we teach you how to develop that in the book, which I can talk about in a moment. But in terms of directly connecting with your kid, you need to make sure you yourself are in a Yes Brain state first. Now, they keep on screaming or yelling or whatever they're doing in their reactive No Brain state, you need to realize that's going to start inducing frustration in you. If you're in public, it may induce a feeling of shame. You may start getting angry and frustrated, both with your kid and with yourself. And in that social situation, if it's public, you can start losing your temper, even though you don't want to. And even in private, you can feel like, "Wow. I'm at my wit's end. I can't do this anymore." Dan Siegel: When you get to those kinds of places of No Brain reactivity in yourself, you need to take a break. And depending on the age of your kid, if your kid is not hurting herself, and can be left alone, you need to go for a walk, take a stretch, get a drink of water. You need to get yourself back into a Yes Brain state. So that's the first thing to say. A lot of our meltdowns in parenting, a lot of the ruptures that happen are when we ourselves are in a No Brain state, and we try to parent in that state. It is not possible. And what people tend to do is, they justify their behaviors, hitting their kids, squeezing their arm, cursing at them, demeaning them. And they say, my kid deserved it. And you see, and I've seen this even in my friends, this kind of rationalization, that what they've done in that No Brain state, which in that state felt right, and then they remember that they did it. They then, when they're out of that state, justify it. And it is the saddest thing, because it actually is not very helpful to their kid. And it's actually creating this prison for themselves as they continue to rationalize that what they've been doing and this pseudo-strategy for parenting that's coming from this reactivity is okay. They think somehow it's a sign of strength. Neil Sattin: Can I ask you a quick question about that actually? Dan Siegel: Yeah. Yeah. Neil Sattin: Because I think, I hear from some parents this notion that "I can't let my child see that I'm uncertain". Or "I'm supposed to be providing safety for my child, so that's going to be setting harsh limits. And even if they're freaking out, it's like me being really clear and direct with them". And what I'm hearing from you suggests that maybe that's not entirely true. That there is a way to maintain a child's sense of safety and at the same time be a fallible human as well. Dan Siegel: Well, let me ask you something and let me ask your listeners who have asked you those very important questions. When your child gets to be an adolescent and has learned from your role modeling, do you want them to be the kind of adolescent who does something at a party, and then says, "Well, for me to look like a strong friend to my friends, I've gotta say that what I did was absolutely right, even if what I did was actually wrong, and I can learn from it?" Neil Sattin: Right. I'm guessing the answer is, no, I would want them to have an internal moral compass that helps them do what they really, truly think is right in a moment and not be ruled in that way by the need to not stand out or to... Yeah. Or just to be in a reactive place when they are making choices or not really even making choices. Dan Siegel: So exactly. An internal moral compass, an internal compass is what you can role model for your child. So if, as happens to all of us, you get reactive and are reacting from a No Brain state rather than responding from a Yes Brain state. I'm emphasizing the term 'Reactivity' versus 'Responsivity.' When you're receptive in the Yes Brain state, you're able to respond in a flexible way. When you're reacting in a No Brain state, it's coming like a knee-jerk reflex. So we all can get into those No Brain states. If all your child is learning is that sometimes you're acting like a complete jerk and making no sense and then standing up for what you did in that jerk state you were in, then all they're learning is that you're kinda out of your mind. [laughter] Dan Siegel: Seriously. And they can't make sense of it. I'm serious about that. And in contrast, if you say, "Hey, what I did 10 minutes ago, what I did yesterday, what I did two hours ago... " Whenever you got yourself back into a Yes Brain state. "I just want to tell you, I think what I did was a mistake. I was really frustrated and I was coming from a... " And now you have the language for this. "I was coming from this No Brain state of reactivity, and any human being can do it, it's the way the brain works. So it may not be my fault but it is my responsibility to reconnect with you and say, 'I think what I did was wrong. And I'm going to really try to learn it. Let's try to understand from that experience.'" Now in all of that stuff, I didn't say, "You made me act like that, you stupid kid." Dan Siegel: 'Cause any parent can do that, and most parents do do that, and that's not helpful. You're the adult. So our kids are learning to be in life by pushing on boundaries. And so coming back to the main thread of this question you're asking, it's so beautiful, is what you can do is learn yourself what a No Brain versus Yes Brain state feels like. Sense that in your child, so that you're role modeling for them, that you're a human being too. And if you pretend like you're not, you're just creating this... Literally, a delusion - a belief that's not consistent with reality. So if you try to pretend like you're not a human, unless you are in fact a cyborg robot. [chuckle] Dan Siegel: But if you are a human being then you are a human being, so to pretend like you're not one doesn't make any sense. So goofing up and making a mistake is human and then making a repair of that mistake is heartful humanity. And so, what you want to do is be that full human being. So now what you're doing is you're role-modeling for your child that you're aware of these two states. Now you can very directly, and we do this in The Yes Brain book. We teach you how to understand that in yourself, and understanding your child, and even to teach you how to speak to your child about this, 'cause every child should know about their brain. So you say, "Look, what happened five minutes ago is really hard. I think you were in a No Brain state. You were reactive like that, and I understand why 'cause I got reactive too. We were both really tired, we were really hungry, and we were both frustrated. It was raining, we wanted to go to the zoo. And now we were stuck in the car, and you didn't want to put on your seatbelt. And I got frustrated and yelled at you, and then you said, you definitely wouldn't do it, so I forced... " You know, all the stuff that happens in parenting. [chuckle] Dan Siegel: So you can tell the story of the experience with the framework that you understand people's behavior in a No Brain state is quite different from a Yes Brain state. So what you're doing in that communication is you're saying to your child, "Behavior is shaped by the mind beneath the behavior; and the mind is shaped, in part, by the state of mind you're in, which is created by either a No Brain or Yes Brain state. So when you're feeling reactive and not open to what's going on, all sorts of things can be said that can be harmful to others or even to self. And so recognizing that that was the state driving it allows you to move from this No Brain state of reactivity and learn the skills of how to move to a Yes Brain state of being receptive." And listen, the fun thing about this, I gotta say, and it was really beautiful to have Carol Dweck write an endorsement for the book 'cause Carol Dweck has done beautiful work in the mindset of what she calls a fixed versus growth mindset. Neil Sattin: Yes. Dan Siegel: And in the fixed mindset it's like, "I am a fixed way and my behavior just shows it. Whether I succeed or not in a race or with friends at a party or with the way I perform on a test, that shows my innate talents that can't be changed." Whereas a growth mindset says, "Hey, I have these things I do." All those things I just described. "That come from my effort, and the skills I've learned, they come from disciplined ways of learning. So if I don't accomplish what I think I was going to accomplish in a race, or get the score I wanted to on a test, or have a successful outcome at a party where I didn't know many of the kids, I can use that as a disappointment for sure, okay, but then let that inspire me to learn the skills in a more disciplined way so I can try again." That's a growth mindset. Dan Siegel: And what Carol Dweck beautifully wrote about was that these are skills, "The Yes Brain" approach are skills that parents can use. And they're also, by the way, the skills that are beneath "Grit" - Angela Duckworth's work - that allows you to see how a child can have this kind of perseverance in the face of challenge that requires a growth mindset that you can then see the strategies for building grit and a growth mindset. Neil Sattin: Yeah, so I'm wondering if we could just tackle something specific for a moment, because I'm imagining a situation that many parents have multiple times, which is being faced with their child in a state of frustration or disappointment. And you talk beautifully in "The Yes Brain" about this balance as a parent between being differentiated because you want your children to have their experience, but also staying linked to them and feeling with them. So that might be a great way. If you could illustrate, what would you do with a child who was feeling really disappointed about something? What's a way that you could approach that that would foster their own growth in developing some of this, I think that would be more like resiliency, which you talk about as expanding their ability to handle disappointments and stressful situations without going into the red zone of fight, flight, freeze? Dan Siegel: Right, exactly, exactly. So if you take the four of those things, the BRIE components of balance, resilience, insight and empathy, let's do an example that illustrates all four... Neil Sattin: Great. Dan Siegel: With what you're inquiring about, about a frustrating experience. So let's take that example I gave you. You're going to the zoo and it starts to... You have pouring rain, so you can't go to the zoo. Your child, let's say seven, he was so excited about going to see the panda bears and now he can't, and it's really, really raining, so you've gotta have an alternative plan. And he is really angry, he won't put his seatbelt on the back seat, in his car-seat, and you're just frustrated beyond belief because you wanted to see the pandas too, and you're both hungry 'cause you were going to go have lunch in the zoo, or all these things. Okay. Neil Sattin: Right, and now you're getting frustrated because your child is not putting their seatbelt on and not listening to you and not enabling you to move on to the next thing. Dan Siegel: Exactly, exactly. And so you get out, you're getting wet, you're trying to reach over there and he's pushing on you 'cause he's in a fight mode, and you're trying to buckle that seat and then he hits you in the face. Whatever is going to happen, this can happen. Neil Sattin: Right. Clearly, neither you nor I has ever experienced this before. [chuckle] Dan Siegel: No, no, never. I'm talking about theoretical people. And so now he hits you in the face and so now you grab his arm, and now you're screaming, and he's crying and he's looking terrified of you because you look terrifying, and neither of you want to be doing this, but this is what's happening. [chuckle] This is Parenting 101. So it's really hard, it's the basics. Okay, so you take a break, you close the door so he doesn't get wet, you don't continue with what you're doing because you recognize you're really doing stuff that's not so good, and maybe you get the umbrella and go for the walk around the car, but you don't abandon him, maybe go sit in the front seat and say to him, "Joey, let's both take a couple minutes just to calm down, let's just focus on your breathing," and he's screaming, yelling, but you do not interact with him, but you're in the car. So you're not abandoning him, but you're getting yourself back into the Yes Brain state. We call it the green zone, green for go. Dan Siegel: So once you're really in that green zone, you check in with yourself. How's my heart doing? How are my muscles doing? Is my jaw clenched? You look for, I call it SIFTing the mind. So the S is the sensations in your body we just went over, the I are any kind of images, so maybe you're seeing red and maybe you're really furious, and maybe you're thinking of images of how you've spoiled him because you take him to the zoo all the time or whatever. Feelings of frustration or anger. Thoughts. "God, I've done a terrible job. This is horrible," or, "This is what my father always did with me. I've made a big mistake in becoming my father." All these things. So you're SIFTing your mind. Dan Siegel: And now, as you sift through this stuff, you're naming things so you can tame them, because what the studies show is that when you name an emotional state, you can actually regulate it. So this is the insight part of BRIE. And now you're going to do the E of BRIE, the empathy. You're going to say, "Well, of course he was frustrated." He entered a No Brain state 'cause he was hungry and tired; maybe he had a sleepover the night before at a friend's house or something. And you both didn't expect it to rain and he loves going to the zoo with you, so of course he's really disappointed. He's seven. He's not 47 like you are; he's seven. Dan Siegel: Okay. So, now once you get yourself SIFTed through, you get back into the Yes Brain state. He's still kicking or whatever he's doing. So here's the move. You connect before you redirect, and what you're doing there is you're able to say to him, "I can understand why it would be so frustrating for you that we couldn't go to the zoo." And then you pause. Now, in that moment what you're doing is, instead of reacting to his reactivity by saying, "Stop yelling! Stop screaming! It's okay, blah, blah, blah," you're actually attuning to where he's at. I remember this with another acronym, PART. You're present for Joey, that's the P. You're attuning, this is the A, which means focusing attention on his inner world, not just his kicking legs and his screaming voice. You're attuning to his inner mental state. In this case, he's fighting back 'cause he's in the No Brain state. He's really mad and upset 'cause he's really disappointed, so he feels threatened because he didn't get to have his time with you, all these things. That's attuning. Dan Siegel: Resonating is, you are being shaped by his internal state. Maybe initially it was too much and you've lost differentiation because you became him. Now you can resonate without over-identifying with him, and that's fine. You can feel that frustration. And the T of PART... So presence; attunement is focusing on the internal world; resonating is feeling, some of his feelings not becoming him. T is trust, and now trust is created, 'cause you say, "Joey, of course you were frustrated, of course it was so hard. I even understand why - it's not okay but - you hit me in the face, 'cause you were feeling so mad, because I didn't recognize how frustrated you were. I get that." Dan Siegel: And then you just sit there. Now in that moment, what's happening to energy and information flow that's within you and within him, is you're becoming joined, because you're not judging his state, you're not trying to teach him a lesson, you're not trying to criticize him, you're just being with him. Instead of being alone, you two are now together. And if you look at the mathematics of that, basically two separate systems becoming joined, as differentiated and now linked, allow the whole system to do what's called "increased complexity." Basically it's becoming more integrated, and the thing that's really fantastic about that is it becomes more regulated. Dan Siegel: So instead of being alone in his frustration and fear and fury, he's now joined with you, and in that joining things start to shift. And in that joining, he moves, little bit by little bit from No Brain reactivity to Yes Brain receptivity. And now, in the joining now, you can then problem-solve together. "We both got really in a No Brain way, didn't we?" "Yeah, we really did." He starts to cry, "But I really wanted to see the pandas." You go, "I know. I did too. Gosh! Oh, my God! I just realized there is a panda movie at the movie theatre. We can go to the movies, if we can get in 'cause maybe everyone is going, so we don't know we can - but why don't we go get some lunch first, see when the movie is playing and let's go to the movies." "Okay, dad, that's great." Dan Siegel: And so what you've done there is so many things. You've taught him how he can go from reactivity to receptivity, so that's the resilience part. You've taught him how to feel the joy and the balance, that's the B part. You've taught him that when he's now joined with you and can reconnect and redirect his focus of attention. The insight is, you've taught him that you were aware you would become reactive. And you're teaching him to become aware of his own state by saying, "Yeah, I guess you were in that reactive state when you hit me. You didn't want to hurt me but you hit me." And then the E, the empathy part is, you're teaching him that you can look beyond the outwardly manifested behaviors, at the mind driving the behaviors. Dan Siegel: And so often parents don't learn that skill, and yet it's a mindsight skill that's at the basis of... The way we teach an internal compass is, by ourselves, tuning into the internal experience of our child, and then the child learns to focus not only on the internal states of others but on their own internal state. So when we come back to that first question, Neil, would you want your adolescent to have an internal compass that drives their moral decisions? And you said yeah, the answer is yes. This is how you do it. You get them in touch with their internal state beyond just outwardly manifested behaviors. That's the key. Mindsight skill-building, is the basis of a Yes Brain strategy approach and being real. You are a real human being who is in the real position of being a parent. Neil Sattin: Well, and I notice with my own son that the more that I show up that way, joining him first and then doing problem-solving, then I've just seen his whole emotional state really flourish and blossom just from adopting that approach more and more, and I've even... I was experimenting a little bit more aggressively while I was reading "The Yes Brain," and what I love about this work is that you illustrate it so clearly in the book, and it's not a very long book, it's a really easy read, and it's really practical and has very immediate effects in terms of the lightness, that I was perceiving anyway, in my own children. Dan Siegel: Exactly. Well, this is the thing that's so incredibly rewarding for Tina and for myself is, we get together and we think, "Okay, where have our parents in our workshops been asking questions? And what could Tina and I do to try to articulate in a very simple way?" And believe me, it is hard to write a short book [chuckle] 'cause often I write long ones. So to really write in a short way for busy, tired parents, something that actually has immediate, practical things you can do and also a conceptual framework that we're trying to build in this library of books. We have "The Whole-Brain Child", "No-Drama Discipline" and the others down the pipe that parents can take in, and instead of them being just separate things, it builds this kind of mindsight approach to parenting. Neil Sattin: Well, Dan, I really appreciate your work and Tina's work with this book, and I just have so many questions I could ask you but we've reached the top of the hour and I want to honor our time commitment that we made. For you listening, if you're interested in finding out more about Dan's work and mindsight, you can listen to episode 57 of the Relationship Alive podcast. You can also download the transcript and the action guide from this episode if you visit neilsattin.com/yesbrain, and we will have a link to Dan Siegel's website, this book, his other books, so that you can get all the information that you need about Dan Siegel and his work. In the meantime, Dan, so much to talk about - so I hope we have the opportunity to chat again in the not too distant future, and thank you so much for joining us today. Dan Siegel: Neil, thank you and thank you for all your wonderful work in bringing me this material for the world out into access for everyone. Neil Sattin: It's my pleasure. You're most welcome! Resources: Check out Dan Siegel's website Read Dan’s latest book (with Tina Payne Bryson) The Yes Brain: How to Cultivate Courage, Curiosity, and Resilience in Your Child www.neilsattin.com/yesbrain Visit to download the transcript, or text “PASSION” to 33444 and follow the instructions to download the transcript to this episode with Dan Siegel Amazing intro/outro music graciously provided courtesy of: The Railsplitters - Check them Out  

How do you separate fact from fiction when it comes to creating and sustaining sexual desire? In this episode of Relationship Alive, our special guest is Emily Nagoski, author of the New York Times bestseller "Come As You Are: The Surprising New Science that Will Transform Your Sex Life." Her work has been cited by both John Gottman and Esther Perel as a must-read for understanding how desire works, and how to nurture a sexual connection over the long term with your partner. Emily Nagoski and I dispel some modern-day myths about sexuality, and then we reveal some of the new science to help you create more pleasure in your life. And, as Emily says, "Pleasure is the Measure!" Transcript: Neil Sattin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Relationship Alive. This is your host, Neil Sattin. What if everything that you've been told about sex and desire was wrong? Or maybe not quite wrong, just missing really important bits of information that would help you understand the big picture. As it turns out, there's a lot that we've come to know through science about what turns us on and what turns us off. But this information is relatively new and hasn't quite made it out to the mainstream or the cover of Cosmo, at least not yet. How do you know if what you're experiencing is normal? And what can you do to discover more about who you are as a sexual being and to find more connection and sex in your relationship, without creating pressure on yourself or on your partner? Today's guest has many of the answers to these questions. Neil Sattin: Her name is Doctor Emily Nagoski and she's the author of the New York Times bestseller "Come as You Are", which John Gottman says is the best book he's ever read on sexual desire and why some couples stop having sex. Esther Perel also refers to Emily's work. So, if John Gottman and Esther Perel, who, at the moment, come from different camps on the question of sexual desire, if they can agree on Emily Nagoski's work, then you know that she's done something truly magnificent. There's gonna be a lot to cover and, as usual, we will have a detailed transcript and action guide for this episode available to you at neilsattin.com/normal. Or you can text the word Passion to the number 33444 and follow the instructions to get your copy. Emily Nagoski, thank you so much for joining us today on Relationship Alive. Emily Nagoski: I'm so excited to talk to you. Neil Sattin: So let's start at the very beginning. Emily Nagoski: Very good place to start. Neil Sattin: Exactly. Where did this book come from for you? It's about desire and it's about understanding what makes us tick. And in particular, it's written for women and about women's sexuality, though there's so much relearning for men to do as well. And I'm wondering if you can just create our garden here for us for this conversation. Where did this book come from and why was it so important for you to write it? Emily Nagoski: Sure. I'd been teaching sexuality in some form and some context, for at least 15 years when I started teaching a class called Women's Sexuality at Smith College. Smith is a women's college so I had a class of almost entirely women, 187 of them. And Smith students are not ordinary human beings. Smith alums include Gloria Steinem, and Betty Friedan, and Catharine MacKinnon, and my favorite, Julia Child. And so the very first day, I'm teaching the anatomy class, of course, I just start with the anatomy. And a student raises her hand and says, "Emily, what's the evolutionary origin of the hymen?" And 15 years I'd been a sex educator, I had never even wondered the answer to that question. So I knew it was gonna be an intense, interesting semester. And it really was. They pushed me really hard. I shoehorned in as much science as I could into this beginner level class. After a semester of really hard work, my last question on the final exam was just tell me one important thing you learned. It can be... Just take the question seriously, you can have your two points no matter what you say. Just tell me one important thing you learned after all this cutting edge science. Emily Nagoski: And I thought they were gonna say the evolutionary theory, or attachment theory, or arousal non-concordance, or responsive desire, or any of these other things. And more than half of them, of 187 extraordinary students, more than half of them just wrote something like, "I'm normal. I learned that I'm normal. Just because I'm different from other women doesn't mean I'm broken. I can accept my sexuality as it is, and my partner's even when it's different from mine." I'm grading final exams with tears in my eyes thinking, I don't know what happened in my class, but I think it must have been something extraordinary and I wanna do it again, and I wanna do it on a much bigger scale. And that's the day that I decided to write "Come as You Are." And five years after that is when "Come as You Are" actually got published. Neil Sattin: And I love these... There's so many quotes from your book, and one thing that I really enjoyed about reading "Come as You Are" is that literally every chapter revealed something new. So while it all builds on itself, at the same time, I felt like I was walking through a labyrinth and around every corner I found some amazing gem, which is just so exciting when you're reading a book. But this quote toward the end really was powerful for me. And all it is, is this, "The sexuality you have right now is it and it's beautiful, even especially, if it's not what you were taught it should be." Emily Nagoski: Yeah. Neil Sattin: And that really hit me hard because I think so often we do get lost in thinking it's supposed to be some other way. And when we learn to tune in to what is actually happening in our bodies and accept that, and then use that as the springboard for what happens next, there's so much power in that moment. Emily Nagoski: And in one way it's really obvious that the fastest, easiest way to shut down your sexual well-being is to judge and shame your own sexuality as it - is like is that gonna be a turn on in your brain? For you to hate what's happening in your sexuality, obviously not. But if you can release the judgement and shame and be like "Oh, look, here's my sexuality. Being what it is, doing what it does, I know that I've been given a sort of like phantom sexual self of what I'm told I should be, what I'm supposed to do, what it's supposed to be like, and I know I'm supposed to beat the shit out of myself until I meet that standard, but what if? What if just hypothetically I stopped beating the shit out of myself and just enjoyed my sexuality as it is?" It turns out our ability to stop demanding that our bodies be different and allowing them to be as they are, is maybe the single most powerful thing we can do to maximize our sexual well-being. Is it easy? Nope. But it's almost magical in it's power. Neil Sattin: And this might be a good time to start with talking about the dual control system. This is something that probably most people don't know about in terms of how they think about their own sexual operating system. Can you speak a little bit to what is the dual control's mechanism and how does that affect whether we're into sex or not into sex, or feeling desirous and aroused or not feeling desirous and aroused? Emily Nagoski: Yes, absolutely. This is the fundamental hardware between our ears in the way our sexuality functions. It's a model developed at the Kinsey Institute starting in the late '90s, early 2000s, by Erick Janssen and John Bancroft, and it basically posits that sexuality works the way every other system in our central nervous system works. Which is a dual control mechanism. If there's a dual control mechanism, how many parts are there? Neil Sattin: Two. Emily Nagoski: There's two parts. Exactly, right? The first one is the sexual accelerator. And if the first part's is the accelerator or the gas pedal, the second part must be? Neil Sattin: The brakes. Emily Nagoski: Brake. Exactly. The accelerator is the part most of us are already sort of familiar with... It notices everything in the environment that it codes as sexually relevant. This is all the things that you're seeing and smelling and tasting and hearing and, crucially, imagining, that your brain codes as a sexually relevant stimulus, and it sends that turn on signal that activates arousal and desire. But at the same time that that's functioning, there is also a brake that is noticing all the good reasons not to be turned on right now, everything you see and hear, smell, touch, taste, or, crucially, imagine, that your brain codes as a potential threat, a reason not to be sexually active right now. And it sends the turn off signal. So your level of arousal or desire at any given moment is this balance of how many ons are turned on and how many offs are turned off. Sexual well-being is maximized, that is to say, sexual pleasure in the moment is maximized, when you're turning on all the ons and all of the brakes are turned off. And when I was talking about self-criticism and contempt for your own sexuality being a turn off, obviously, if you're judging your own sexuality, is that hitting the accelerator? Almost certainly not. That's one of the very common things that hits the brakes. Neil Sattin: Yeah. And I think what is confusing is that it's common for us to idealize one and to completely ignore the other. Or, one thing that was really enlightening in reading about these, is that we come with our own set level for these things. So some of us could have an accelerator that's really sensitive and easy to turn on, whereas others may not. And that doesn't necessarily represent a problem that needs to be fixed. And same with the brakes. Maybe you could talk a little bit more about that and why that... Why that's so. Emily Nagoski: Yeah, there, there are individual differences in the sensitivities of the brakes and the accelerator in each person's brain. As far as we can tell from the science so far, they seem to be pretty set. They're not as set as IQ, but we don't know of any specific interventions to change their sensitivity. Let's just assume they're like personality traits like introversion and extroversion, they are what they are. Most of us are heaped up around the middle. We're just sort of all about the same, but a handful of people, for example, will have really sensitive accelerators, and a person with a sensitive accelerator, vroom, right? That's a person who is easily activated, which can be great under the right circumstances and can be pretty dangerous under the wrong circumstances. If a person is experiencing a lot of negative effects, stress, depression, anxiety, loneliness, helplessness, repressed rage we've all got it, and they don't have good mechanisms in place for coping with that negative emotion - they may begin to use sex as an outlet, a way to avoid experiencing those negative emotions. Emily Nagoski: And that's where sexual risk taking and sexual compulsivity can come into play, in those folks who have higher sensitivity accelerators. And on the other end of the spectrum, there's the folks, for example, who might have really sensitive brakes, where the least stray thought, stray fingernail, stray noise in the hallway can just shut everything right down. And those are the folks who struggle most with sexual dysfunction, desire disorders, desire differential in their relationship. For most of us though, it's not that our brakes are overly sensitive. It's that we have just a truck load of stuff hitting our brakes all the time and it's much more common. The usual party line about sexual issues is that, well, you should try adding more stuff to the gas pedal. Try role play, and lingerie, and toys, and porn, and fantasy, and all the things, and those are great and you should try them if you like them. Great. And most people when they're struggling with sexuality, it's not because there's too little stimulation to the accelerator, it's because there's too much stimulation to the brake, which is gonna be - some of it - is that self criticism and body shaming. Emily Nagoski: For some people, it's a trauma history. For some people, it's straight up stress. 80 to 90% of people find that stress and other mood and anxiety issues negatively impact their sexual desire. For some people, it can actually increase it, but that's a different story. And relationship issues, of course are the major factor in things that hit the brakes. Neil Sattin: What's a good way for someone listening right now to get a sense for themselves of what we're talking about and how it impacts them? Like how do I identify what my brakes are and what my accelerator items are? Emily Nagoski: Yeah, most people have a good sense - if they just sit down and think about it... I'm interested in sex when these things are happening and I am not at all interested and don't experience pleasure under these circumstances. You can start in a general way with just lists, like what are the things that stress me out that prevent me from being interested in sex? What are the relationship issues that get me stuck so that when I get in bed with my partner, I'm not just getting in bed with my partner, I'm getting in bed with this laundry list of crap, that's just like gunking up the pipes, and you gonna clean out the pipes before you're gonna be interested in sex. Another concrete specific way rather than just generically...if you could think about one really awesome sexual experience you've had, doesn't have to be the best one you ever had, just like a really great sexual experience. Consider what the context was that might have been hitting the accelerator and keeping the brakes off. So what was your own mental and physical state? What were your partner's characteristics? What were your relationship characteristics? What was the setting? Was it in person? Was it in public? Was it over skype? Was it texting and photos? Emily Nagoski: Was it in the closet at a stranger's house, at a party, against a wall of other people's coats? Or was it in your own bed with the door shut and the kids over at somebody else's house? What was the setting that worked? Other life circumstances is a really important factor. How stressed out and exhausted were you from work and impending nuclear holocaust? What was your overall stress level? And then my favorite relevant factor is that called ludic factors. Ludic related to the word ludicrous. It just means play, how curious and playful and fun could you be? What games were you playing with your partner that were really working for you? There's actually, if you go to my website, there's worksheets, the worksheets are in the book and you can also just download them for free, that walk you through these contexts. I recommend that you think through three great experiences and three not so great experiences, not three terrible sexual experiences just three like, "meh" kind of experiences and look for what wasn't working for you. And when you actually... It takes some time. But when you sit down and take the time to think through what contexts were really working for me. I don't know why that made that sound. Could you hear that? Neil Sattin: No, what did you hear? Emily Nagoski: Oh, sorry, my sister is texting me and the alert came on. Neil Sattin: Okay. Emily Nagoski: Sorry. Neil Sattin: That's okay. Emily Nagoski: It distracted me. Let me go back. It takes a little time to sit and actually think through six different sexual experiences, but people really do have surprising insights. People who really feel like they know a lot about their own sexual functioning, when they sit down and think in this concrete, specific way, will notice things they never heard before. A friend of mine went through it and what she realized... She's in a long distance relationship, and when she actually did get together with her partner, what she noticed was that the expectation that, "Now that we're finally together, we should be having sex." That expectation, that sense of obligation, was absolutely the key to her shutting down her sexuality. And she only figured that out by thinking critically through the factors that were hitting the accelerators and hitting the brakes. Neil Sattin: Yeah. And that's huge, you talk about that particular one like how you feel about whether you are or not having sex, or how you feel about whether or not you should want to have sex in this moment as being another really important factor in whether your accelerator's on and your brakes are out of the way, or your sexual car's coming to a screeching halt. [chuckle] Neil Sattin: I'm curious to know from, yeah, from your perspective. One thing you just mentioned was the people who do have a really light touch accelerator and the danger for those people that sex could become a compulsion if it's that's easy for them to get turned on and to potentially use it as a way to mitigate and cope with the stress and things that are going on in their lives, and in my experience with my clients, and people I talk to, and in my own experience as well, sometimes that those people tend to find themselves in relationships with people who do not have as light touch of an accelerator, and in fact often have quite the opposite. I'm wondering what do you do, and I think part of this is maybe in what you were just talking about with that, the way that you think about whether you should or shouldn't be having sex, but what do you do to give someone hope who is in a situation - and you describe in your book one of the amalgamated characters, someone named Olivia, a woman who it's really easy for her to get into the mood to have sex and she's with a partner named Patrick for whom it's not so easy. And how do you give a couple in that situation Some hope around shifting that dynamic in a way that, that feels positive for both people? Emily Nagoski: This actually touches on what has turned out to be one of the most important ideas in the book, which is the nature of desire itself, how desire is supposed to function in our bodies and our relationships. In the case of Olivia, who is the composite character with a sensitive accelerator, she represents about 15% of women who have pretty sensitive accelerators, it means that she also happens to be a person who, when she is stressed out, her interest in sex actually goes up, which is true for, again, about 10-20% of people. And there's not a gender differential on that one. And she's with a partner, as so many of these folks are, for whom the opposite is true. So if they're both stressed out at the same time, Patrick's interest in sex hits the floor and Olivia's hits the ceiling. And that's not in and of itself a problem, but if they start having opinions about which one of them is doing it wrong, that's when things can get really tricky. Because it's... If you don't have a judgement about who's right and who's wrong and you're just like, "Well, our brains are wired differently. That's how it is," And you can rationally negotiate a compromise, great. Emily Nagoski: But if you start feeling bitter and resentful towards your partner for either being too demanding or too withholding, and you're judging and shaming yourself for wanting too much and being too much, or you're judging and shaming yourself for not wanting enough and not being enough, that's when things get really sticky, which is why the "You are Normal." Mantra comes back over and over the book, You are normal, nobody's doing it wrong. Both people are right and healthy and fine. The emotional weight that we attach to different experiences of sexual desire is just a social construct that we're laying on top of it. You get to feel again, totally normal about the way you're experiencing desire. And the practical solution is just to negotiate. What are we gonna do about the fact that I would like to have the sexy sexes and you are not interested in having the sexy sexes right now? How about we compromise in some way that works for both of us, where you stay with me and put your hand over my heart while I masturbate to orgasm? That way you don't have to do anything you're not into and I get to have the connection and the sexual release. Emily Nagoski: How's that sound? If we can let go of our judgments of what sex is supposed to be and what desire is supposed to be, that's a perfectly reasonable compromise. That's a really helpful compromise. It's only not helpful compromise if you're like, "But it doesn't conform with my expectations about the aspirational culturally constructed ideal of what my sex life is supposed to be." Neil Sattin: Right, right. And so this is great because I'm wondering if you can suggest a good way to notice that in oneself. How do I know whether what I want is culturally constructed, or what I actually want, and what would be really important to have on some level? Emily Nagoski: Dude, I don't know. [laughter] Emily Nagoski: That's the million dollar question, right? I would say that the distinction we're thinking about here is not so much what I want, versus how I feel. The word that I use in the book, that comes from John Gottman's research is meta-emotions. There's how you feel. There's how your sexuality... And this is also language I came up with after I finished Come as You Are. I was traveling all around the country and I was talking to students all over, and a student raises her hand and says, "You say in the book, Emily, confidence and joy. Over and over, you use these words, confidence and joy. Can you tell us what you mean by confidence and joy?" And I was like, "No, I have no idea what those words actually mean." And I had to think about it for a long time. And I finally realized that confidence is knowing what is true, knowing that you have a sensitive accelerator and your partner doesn't, or you have a sensitive brake and your partner doesn't, knowing that the context that works for you is one that is really safe, and familiar, and calm, and quiet, whereas the context that works for your partner is one of novelty, and adventure, and risk. Emily Nagoski: And okay, now you know what's true. Joy is the hard part, and that's loving what is true. Even, as I say in the book, when it is not what you were taught, it was supposed to be true. Even if it's not what you wish were true. Boy, would things be simple if two partners always all the time wanted the same level of sex. Desire differential is the most common reason why people seek sex therapy. Desire differential is also really universal. There is no such thing as two people whose desire tracks the same day-to-day. Emily Nagoski: Sometimes you have a rough day and your partner doesn't, so you're not interested in sex and your partner is. Some days the opposite is true. There is no such thing as people with exactly the same desire all the time. Just being like, "Hey, that's cool." That's what's true. Fortunately, I also love my partner, and so, we're gonna work it out together. We're gonna have conversations that can be calm and loving and affectionate, because we understand what's true about ourselves, about our accelerator, about the context that work for us, and we love each other and the things that are true about our two different sexualities. There are no judgement, there's no shame, there's just accepting that we are two different people, and it's not just that people vary from each other, it's also that people change over time. When you're in a relationship that lasts over multiple years, you and your partner's sexualities are gonna change and they may not necessarily change along the same trajectories. Joy is loving what is true about both of your sexualities and the ways that they change, whether that feels comfortable and easy or not. Neil Sattin: And this conversation, I appreciate that you brought up the requirement to as much as possible have it in a loving way, because those desire differentials can create a lot of stress. And as you just mentioned, for most people, no matter where they are in terms of brakes and accelerator, I think somewhere between 80% and 90% of people, that stress it's going to turn the brakes on. Emily Nagoski: Yeah. Neil Sattin: Can you talk a little bit about this... How the stress that we're carrying around with us every day... What can we do about that? Why is it so important to do something about it, rather than just sweeping it under the rug or pretending it doesn't exist? Emily Nagoski: Right. Neil Sattin: And what's on the other side of doing something about it? Emily Nagoski: There's a whole lot of telling ourselves not to, in a lot of aspects of our lives. We tell ourselves not to feel that way about sexuality. We try to force ourselves to feel a different way than we actually feel. We fight against the truth and reality, and we do that with our stress too. We tell ourselves that we're supposed to experience, "No, I don't need to be stressed out about that." You try to tell yourself, "Relax, just relax." When your partner, if you're stressed out and your partner is like, "Why can't you just relax? Just relax." Is that helpful? Does that help? Does that make things better? Neil Sattin: No, right. Emily Nagoski: No, it doesn't make things better, right? No, obviously. What has to happen is, instead of trying to just like not be stressed out, you have to move in the direction of the stress, sink down into it, and allow your body to experience it. Stress is a physiological process. It's like digestion. It has a beginning and a middle and an end. And if we don't interfere with it, our bodies will move through that entire cycle in a healthy, normal way that doesn't interfere with our lives. But as human beings with giant prefrontal cortexes and massively social tendencies to wanna control our emotions in order to make other people feel good, we tend to keep the brakes on, on our stress in the same way they keep our brakes on, on our sexuality. And so, we're walking around with all these activated stress response cycles, stress is the adrenaline, and the cortisol, and the hypervigilance, and the muscle tension, and the digestion changes, and the cardiovascular changes, and like your whole body, and your immune system is suppressed. Emily Nagoski: Every body system is influenced by the fact that these stress response cycles have been activated. And if you just tell yourself not to feel it, those stress response cycles will stay spinning inside your body waiting to finish and they will wait forever. Most of us are walking around with decades worth of incomplete stress response cycles, just sitting like rocks somewhere in our body waiting for us to let them go. Fortunately, there's lots of research that tells us what the effective strategies are for completing the stress response cycle. For example, physical activity. This is the obvious one, because the stress response cycle is designed for us to survive threats like being chased by a lion. When you're being chased by a lion, what do you do? Neil Sattin: Right, you get the hell out of there. Emily Nagoski: You run. Yeah. Our bodies do not differentiate between stressors, so your body responds basically the same way to a lion as it does to your boss or to your partner shaming and guilting you about sex, right? It's basically the same physiological stress response. It turns out, dealing with the stress itself, the physiology in your body requires basically totally different things from dealing with the thing that caused the stress. There is the calm, rational planning and negotiating that you have to do with your partner and then there is the dealing with the physiological stress itself. Just because you've dealt with the stressor doesn't mean you've dealt with the stress. Physical activity is the single most important thing that you can do - when people tell you that physical activity is good for you, that's for real-sy, every day, 20 minutes if you possibly can, literally any form of physical activity, even if it's just like jumping up and down in your bedroom, any form of physical activity is helpful. Emily Nagoski: We know that sleep is effective, creative self expression, writing and painting, music. We know that sleep is effective, did I say sleep already? Oh, and affection. So, calm, trusting, especially physical affection, but it doesn't have to be physical affection, it can just be the loving presence of another human is great. You know what's also great? The loving presence of a dog. You know what's also great? Loving presence of a God. If that's what makes sense for you. Whatever counts as a loving presence for you sitting and being with that presence helps to return your body to a state of calmness so that your body knows this is a safe place to live. I am safe right now. But it takes doing something for real, not just telling yourself. Neil Sattin: Right. And if you're doing that over and over, especially finding a way to regulate with another with your partner, then that brings about its own level of healing in terms of your right brain coming back online and your ability to operate from the parts of your prefrontal cortex that... Emily Nagoski: Right. To think critically, to be curious and creative, all of that comes back only when you have reduced the adrenaline and cortisol levels and reduce the threat level so that the creativity can expand instead of being so focused on just survival. Neil Sattin: Exactly. Just for your reference listening, if you want to learn more about healing trauma and ways modalities that can help with that we did have Peter Levine on the show, the creator of Somatic Experiencing, that was episode 29. So it's something for you to bookmark and listen to later, and he'll be coming back on the show as well. But somatic experiencing is just one. There are all kinds of modalities if you wanna work with a practitioner to help you... Emily Nagoski: Pat Ogden is another really key person in body based therapy. Pat Ogden and somatic... I forget what it's called. Pat Ogden is amazing and great, and does really, really good work around healing trauma through the body. What I love about body based strategies for dealing, not just with stress but with a trauma is that you don't ever have to have insight. You don't even necessarily have to think about whatever it is that caused the stress or the trauma. It's a different process. You can choose an insight process if you want to, but if you don't wanna go there, if you don't wanna think about it, sometimes you can release this shit from your body without ever having to think about the event that activated the stress. You can just deal with the stress itself without dealing with the event itself, especially if the event is in the past and there's nothing you can do about it now. Body based therapies are wonderfully gentle, indirect, tremendously effective strategy for helping to return your body to a safe state. Neil Sattin: Mm-hmm, big recommend from me as well. Emily Nagoski: There's a chapter on stress and love, and the stress section is pretty much entirely based on the polyvagal theory and Peter Levine's work, somatic experiencing, and Pat Ogden's work in the body-based approach to stress. Neil Sattin: Great. Yeah, and if you wanna learn more about the polyvagal theory, which Emily just mentioned, check out our episode with Steve Porges, which is episode number 34. Emily Nagoski: And so you've just interviewed my entire shelf of reference books. [laughter] Neil Sattin: Basically. That's my goal, Emily. [chuckle] You shouldn't have sent me that photo of your bookshelf, and actually send me more 'cause I don't wanna run out of people. I'm curious if we can talk now about the... 'cause one of the concepts that you discussed that was so fascinating for me was how you broke apart the process of arousal and desire into these different systems in our brain, and there was the enjoying system, the expecting system, and the eagerness system. And I felt like taking it apart like that made it so much easier to understand in a way that's actually practical for people. Can we dive in and just give a little bit more information to our listeners about what I'm even talking about? Emily Nagoski: Yeah. When you read sort of mainstream popular science journalism about brain science, they'll refer to this thing, the pleasure centers of the brain. And if they do that, it's a pretty good cue that they either don't know what they're talking about or they're simplifying it in a way that's really unhelpful, because it's not just the pleasure center of the brain. And calling it the pleasure center is like calling your vulva the vagina, like there's so much more to it, and if we ignore the other parts, we're ignoring some fundamental aspects of how the thing works. So if we break it down, yes, there's the pleasure part, which is just the part of your brain that responds to whether or not stuff feels good, and that's a little more complicated and we can talk about the ways that your brain responds differently to different stimuli as pleasurable or not depending on the context. Should we do that now? Or should I wait? Neil Sattin: Sure. Yeah, let's... Emily Nagoski: Okay. Neil Sattin: And I'll bring us back. Emily Nagoski: Yeah, the pleasure piece of it is slightly complicated because the nucleus accumbens shell in your brain has an affective keyboard. Everybody's asleep now, sorry. [laughter] Emily Nagoski: So the deal is, if you're in a sort of a neutral mental state and somebody tickles you, meh. If you're already in a fun, flirty, sexy, positive, playful, trusting state of mind and your certain special someone tickles you, that even if tickling is not your favorite, in principle, like that could feel fun and lead to other things happening, right? 'Cause your brain interprets that stimulation as something to be approached with curiosity and pleasure because you already feel safe, and trusting, and playful. But if you are pissed off at your partner and they tickle you, you wanna punch them in the face. It's exactly the same stimulation, right? The same tickling stimulation but the state of your mind is different, your brain state is different and so your brain interprets the sensation entirely different, not as something to be approached with curiosity and pleasure, but as a potential threat to be avoided or even attacked. Neil Sattin: Right. Emily Nagoski: And the only thing that is different is your state of mind, so pleasure is not simple. Pleasure is sensitive to the context in which you're experiencing it which is why hot and heavy early on in the relationship, you're in the middle of making dinner and your certain special someone comes over and starts kissing on your neck or whatever. And your knees kinda gets off and you're like, "Oh, that's cool." And things happen. 10 years later, you're trying to make dinner and you've got kids waiting for food and screaming at you and you got 10 years of accumulated frustrations in your relationship. Your certain special someone comes over and kisses on your neck then. You're like, "I'm trying to... Get away from me. What are you doing?" And again, it's exactly the same stimulation, but because the context is different, you experience that sensation in a totally different way, and that is a normal way for us to experience sensations. Emily Nagoski: The problem is not the way we experience the sensation, the problem is that the context changed. And it's not that the context is broken, that's just life. There's always the solution, we don't have to change us in order to find a solution, we just notice what it is about the context that's hitting the brakes and making our brain interpret the sensation as something that makes you wanna smack the person in the face and change the context if you possibly can to something that makes you interpret this person's sensations as something pleasurable to be approached with curiosity. That's the pleasure component of it. The nucleus accumben shell, woohoo. The second part of this pleasure center is actually the desire part. Eagerness, I called it in the book. Kent Berridge, who's... Have you interviewed Kent Berridge? Neil Sattin: Not yet, no. Emily Nagoski: Oh my God, that's the next guy on my shelf. Neil Sattin: Okay. Emily Nagoski: Kent Berridge or Morten Kringelbach. Neil Sattin: Okay. Emily Nagoski: They're the two key authors on this batch of research that distinguishes between wanting and liking. We talked about what liking is and the ways that it's dependent on context. Wanting is moving toward, is the actual activation, the desire, approach piece of it, not just the liking of, like, "Woo!" Or "Gleh!" Right? The classic example, that I actually cut from the book, so this is a thing that you will not read in the book, just to differentiate between wanting and liking, in an experiment, they gave... I always imagine it as one of those beer hats where there's a bottle on one side and a bottle on the other side and straws going into your mouth, do you know what I mean? Neil Sattin: Uh-huh. Emily Nagoski: So they gave one of those to a rat, it's not really like that, but just imagine it's like that. And in one of the cans, there's sugar water, which is delicious to the rat, and in one of the cans with a straw going into the mouth, there's salt water with the salinity of ocean water. How does that taste? Neil Sattin: Salty. Emily Nagoski: Yeah, it's gross. [laughter] Emily Nagoski: It's just a really innately disgusting flavor, because it's a dangerous flavor, it will give you way too much sodium and make you sick. They teach the rat that certain bells are associated with the sugar water coming in. When they get the sugar bell, they get excited. "Yay, here comes the sugar." And when the salt bell comes on, they go, "Ah! - gaddigah - I don't want the salt." But then they give the rat a drug that reduces their salt level. Now, so this is an animal that has zero pleasurable experience with the salty water. It's gross, they don't like anything about it, but when you deplete their salt levels, they will go over to the salt bell and start pushing it and gnawing on it and trying... Be like, "Make this... " They want the salt desperately because you've depleted the... You have a sodium drive that makes you desperate for salts if you don't get it. If you don't have the right sodium levels, you can literally die. So their whole body is in this huge activated, "I want the salt." Though they have zero experience of liking the salt. Does that distinction make sense between wanting? Emily Nagoski: So pleasure, liking is the pleasure part, enjoying. And then there's eagerness, there's desire, there's moving toward and they're overlapping certainly, but they are not identical and it is really important that we distinguish it. And then the third component of this mechanism that we usually just call the pleasure center is associative learning, is basically what it is. When I do PowerPoint presentations, I represent it with a drooling bulldog because of Pavlov's dogs. He trained them to drool with a ring of the bell, all you do is you put food in front of the dog, it automatically starts drooling and you ring a bell. Food, bell, drool. Food, bell, drool. And eventually, you just ring the bell and that's all it takes to get the dog to start drooling. Does that mean that the dog wants to eat the bell? Neil Sattin: No, of course not. Emily Nagoski: Does it mean... Right, of course not. Of course not. Does it mean that the dog finds the bell delicious? Neil Sattin: No. Emily Nagoski: Of course, not, right? It just means that the bell has been made food-relevant. It's associated with food stimuli. So it's now a food-relevant stimulus. Our genital response, blood flow and all the rest of that, is the associative learning component where if you're presented with a sexually relevant stimulus, you will get genital response. This is your activating, this is a sexually relevant accelerator response. It turns out there is a not very relevant overlap, there's not much of an overlap, between what counts as sexually relevant stimulus and what is actually liked, particularly in heterosexual women, so that a person's body can respond to sexually relevant stimulus... In the research, it's almost always different kinds of porn, sometimes it's visual porn, sometimes it's like they're being read an audiobook of an erotic story, sometimes they're even watching bonobo chimpanzees copulating, right? And women's genitals will respond to this, not as much as to the human porn, but significantly above baseline. If their genitals are responding, does that mean they find the bonobo sex like they really want to have sex with the bonobos? Does that mean they like monkey sex? Neil Sattin: This is so important. This is like one of the things in your book that... Not about bonobos necessarily, but... [laughter] Neil Sattin: But this question of how does our genital response correlate to our actual desire, and this might be a great time to talk about non-concordance. Emily Nagoski: Right. And for a lot of people the answer is, it doesn't - particularly for women. There's about a 50% overlap between genital response, and perceived arousal, or subjective arousal in cisgender men. And about a 10% concordance overlap between genital response, and subjective arousal in heterosexual woman. One of the pieces of research that's come out since Come As You Are was published, is the distinction that this arousal non-concordance appears to be a factor really just in straight women. We have no idea why there's a difference sexual orientation, why there's a difference in gender. It doesn't matter why there's a gender difference. We do have this tendency, like is anybody who's sitting here and thinking right now, "Really, there's that much of an overlap for guys, what's the matter with men? There must be... I mean, that's so strange that they have so much concordance between their genital response and their subjective desire. What's going on with that?" No, everybody automatically thinks, "Really, women have 10% overlap. That's really - what's wrong with women?!" Emily Nagoski: That's the patriarchy, that's the androcentric model of sexual desire, arousal, and response that all of us got raised in, assuming that the way a man works is the way a woman is supposed to work. And the extent to which a woman differs from a man is the extent to which she is broken, and needs to be fixed. And that's just not true. When a person's genital response doesn't overlap with their perceived arousal, when their genitals are responding, and they're like, "Nope. Not doing it for me" - what that means is that they've been presented with a sexually relevant stimulus that they do not want or like, which we can only understand if we know that this pleasure center of the brain does have these three separate channels that interact, of sexual relevance, sexually pleasurable, and sexual desire. They're related to each other, but they don't necessarily overlap. And we live in a pretend... In a fucked up enough culture that we're presented with plenty of sexually relevant stimuli in contexts where we neither want nor like what is happening. Neil Sattin: Right. And I would think that another way of looking at the statistic for men, the 50% concordance, is that men have the potential to be victimized by their sexual... By their genital arousal, basically. Emily Nagoski: Yes. Yeah. This narrative shows up a lot in stories of sexual violence against people of every genital configuration. The typical model is a person with a vulva being sexually assaulted, and the perpetrator says, "Well, but you were wet. So obviously, you wanted it or liked it." I cannot tell you how many students have told me, "Oh my gosh, this explains that experience I had where I was like, "Eh, this isn't doing it for me," and my partner was like, "No, you're turned on. You're wet." As though a person's genital response tells us more about what they're experiencing than the person does. And the same thing happens when a person has a penis. If blood is flowing to their genitals, they've been taught that that's an indication of who they are. Like their whole identity is tied to that, and it certainly indicates that they must want or like what is happening. But no, it's a reflex. We would never tell someone, if they bit into a wormy old apple, "Well, your mouth watered when you bit into that wormy old apple, so you must have actually really wanted or liked it. We would never do that. When your doctor taps your patellar tendon and your knee kicks out, nobody is like, "But deep down though, you really wanted to kick your doctor." We don't make this assumption with any physiological reflex, except for genital response. And we do it no matter what a person's genitals are, and it perpetuates a lot of myths around sexual violence. Neil Sattin: Yeah. In fact, I loved your rewrite of Fifty Shades of Grey. [laughter] Neil Sattin: Which I can quote here. In the next edition, Emily thinks that Grey should say to Ana instead of... 'Cause he, right, he spanks her, and she gets wet, is what basically... Emily Nagoski: Yes. She consents to it. She doesn't want it. She doesn't like it. There is not a single word about pleasure. Her face hurts 'cause she's squirming so hard to get away. And then, Christian Grey, the spanker/hero/douche bag, puts his fingers in her vagina, finds that she is wet, and says to her, "Feel this, Anastasia. Your body is soaking just for me." Neil Sattin: Right. "See how much your body likes this." Emily Nagoski: "See how much your body likes this." Likes this. "See how much your body likes this, Anastasia." Neil Sattin: Yeah. So, you're... Emily Nagoski: And I wanted to say. Neil Sattin: Yeah? Emily Nagoski: I want the next person to say, "See how sexually relevant your body finds this. Which tells me very little about whether you want it or liked it." [chuckle] Emily Nagoski: Did you want it, like it? No? Double crap! Double crap is a thing they say a lot in Fifty Shades Grey. [laughter] Emily Nagoski: Let me say that I am a romance reader. I read it with an open mind. It wasn't for me. I value a lot of things the Fifty Shades did for opening up a conversation about erotica and sexuality for women, and it also sold many millions of copies and perpetuated this myth that genital response... 'Cause here's the really bad thing about the book, about this particular aspect of it, is that even though she, in an email, goes on to describe the feeling of being debased, degraded, and abused, still, because he said, "Your genitals responded. Feel how much you like this." She believes him instead of believing what her own internal experience was telling her. 'Cause isn't that what we all get taught, is to believe other people's opinions about our bodies, what they are and what they should be, more than we trust and believe what our bodies are trying to tell us? Neil Sattin: Yeah and that theme runs throughout your book, of learning how to shed the messages that you've been given and the ideas about how things should be, and learning to more deeply trust what comes out of you, what you know about yourself, and what does give you pleasure and what doesn't, and to bring that to the conversation. Emily Nagoski: And I'm remembering the question you asked about how do we tell what's socially constructed and what's what you actually want and like. And sort of almost everything is socially constructed. Nobody is born with any innate sexually relevant stimuli other than just plain old genital sensations. Like nobody is born being turned on by cars, or high-heeled shoes, or smoking cigarettes, or power play. That's all learned from culture. That doesn't mean that it's not real for you and it's what you really do want, it just means that that is what you learned, it's what your culture taught you. And some of those things are just sexually relevant. Like your brain has been taught that those are sexually relevant stimuli. And some of them are things that, in the right context, really do give you gigantic pleasure, and you really do desire them in the right context, in one that facilitates pleasure. Somehow my go-to example of this has been if you fantasize about being cornered by five strangers who just want you sexually and so they take you. Emily Nagoski: If you're alone, safe in your bed, masturbating to that fantasy, in reality, the context is you are 100% safe and in control of that. Whereas if, in reality, five strangers cornered you and wanted to have you sexually, that would be physically unsafe, your stress response would kick in, you would only want to get away, it wouldn't actually be sexy. And the difference is the context. You can, if you wanna create that fantasy for yourself, you can ask five friends to participate in the role play, and communicate really clearly about what everybody's limits are. But that's, again, a really different context from five actual strangers. Neil Sattin: Yeah, so it's important to revisit for a moment... When you were describing context at the beginning, you were talking about all the factors that shape context. It's not just like, "Oh, well, the context is the bedroom's messy and the kids are knocking at the door, so I'm gonna send the kids to Grandma's and clean the bedroom." There's more than just the physical context, there's all of that... Emily Nagoski: Yeah. The stuff in the here and now tends to be the easy stuff to fix, the easy stuff to address. I heard someone joking at a romance writers' conference, "Characters in romance novels have sex when they're being chased and shot at by the Mafia, and I can't have sex if there's still a dish in the sink." [chuckle] Emily Nagoski: That's the easy stuff. The difficult stuff is when what you're bringing to bed and bringing to the context is years of shame, or years of judgement and blame, or relationship conflict, or a trauma history, or body shame, or gendered roles and ideas about how sex is supposed to work and if it's not working that way then it's working wrong. Those are longer term projects. And most of them can be undone through simple, daily mindfulness practices. It does take time. In the same way that it took time to get you to this place, it takes time to shift you out of that place and into a different, more neutral, self-accepting, partner-accepting place. But noticing the gunk, as I call it, the gunk that gets in the pipes, and making a decision to consider the possibility that you could live without the gunk and maybe clean it out is the way to clear up the channel, so that when you get to bed, the context is not one that's bringing with it all of this historical shit. Neil Sattin: Yes. Emily Nagoski: I've been swearing a lot. Neil Sattin: You have! Emily Nagoski: I don't know if that's okay. Sorry. Neil Sattin: This is an explicit show. It's totally fine. Emily Nagoski: Oh good. Neil Sattin: I'm wondering if, before we go, since you just brought up mindfulness, if you could offer just a simple approach to how you've seen mindfulness work. What's something that someone can do that, over time, will effect that great kind of change? Emily Nagoski: The simplest version is simply... So when you're in the process of a sexual experience, you will notice that maybe body-critical thoughts, or sexuality-critical thoughts, or partner-critical thoughts will enter your mind. You just notice them and are like, "Oh, hey! There's that critical thought. I'm gonna have that critical thought literally any other time that I want. For the moment, I'm gonna put it in the back, and I'm gonna return my attention to the pleasurable sensations happening in my body." And another critical thought will float through your mind, and you'll be like, "Oh, hey look! There's another critical thought. I'm just temporarily, I'm gonna put that in the back, and I'm gonna return my attention to the pleasurable sensations happening in my body." And with practice, over and over, we become really skilled at noticing those emotions before they dig deep, and even reducing the frequency and intensity with which they float into our minds. It makes a tremendous... There's a huge body of research. Another person for you to interview, Lori Brotto, does all this research on the impact of mindfulness on women's sexual well-being, especially women who are in recovery from gynecological cancers, and breast cancers, and other diseases, the impact it has on their relationships and their sexuality, and how to use mindfulness and sex education as a way to maximize sexual well-being in the recovery process. Neil Sattin: Amazing. Amazing. And I loved how you brought that in your book as well, not only in how you just described, but also in talking about how important it is to see the ways that you do judge yourself and you're critical of yourself, and how all of those responses are turning your stress inward. You're creating more stress for yourself, which is putting the brakes on for yourself and gets you in that negative feedback loop. Versus... Emily Nagoski: And it takes... Neil Sattin: Being able to heal it through your mindfulness. Yeah? Go ahead. Emily Nagoski: It requires the decision to prioritize turning off the brakes. You have to decide that it matters to you and to your relationship that you access your own sexual well-being. The couples who... What we learn in John Gottman's research is that the couples who sustain strong sexual connections over multiple decades are not couples who, hot and heavy, can't wait to stuff their tongue down each other's throat all the time. They are the couples who, one, have a strong foundation of friendship for their relationship, and two, prioritize sex. So they decide that it matters for their relationship that they set aside this half hour when they stop dealing with the kids, and work, and family, and friends, and Game of Thrones, and all of the other things that they could be paying attention to. They stop all that and they just pay attention to each other in this, frankly, pretty silly, fun way that humans do, because it matters for their relationship that they have that time to play, and touch, and connect. It's not the case for every couple that connecting in this way matters for their relationship, but the couples who sustain strong sexual connections, it's what they do. They make the decision that it matters that they cultivate sexual pleasure and curiosity. Neil Sattin: Well, you're blessing us with a great way to end our conversation, while at the same time reminding me of all the things that we could have talked about. I just wanna say... Emily Nagoski: We could talk about responsive desire, oh... [chuckle] Neil Sattin: Yeah, oh my goodness. Well... Emily Nagoski: Read chapter seven. That's all. Just read chapter seven. They know enough for that to make sense now. Neil Sattin: Do you have time to give a quick blip on that before we go? Emily Nagoski: Okay, really quick. Yes. Neil Sattin: Thank goodness. Emily Nagoski: The standard party line about desire is that it's spontaneous. It just sort of comes out of the... You're walking down the street. You're eating lunch and... Erika Moen, who is the cartoonist who illustrated Come as You Are, she draws this as a lightning bolt to the genitals. Just kaboom! You just want the sexes. And so you go to your partner with, "I have a kaboom. Can I have the sex? Uh?" And your partner's like... [vocalization] Emily Nagoski: So, that is, absolutely, one healthy, normal way to experience sexual desire, is to have it just be... Feel spontaneous and kinda out of the blue. And there is another, totally healthy, normal way to experience sexual desire, it's called responsive desire. See, spontaneous desire emerges in anticipation of pleasure. Responsive desire emerges in response to pleasure, bearing in mind that pleasure is sensitive to context and not simple. The way this works, there's really sort of two narratives of how it works. One is the sort of cuddle, snuggle narrative, where you're just sitting on the couch watching Netflix and your partner comes over and starts touching you, and your body's like, "Ah, that feels really nice." Emily Nagoski: And your partner starts doing other, more interesting things, and you turn and maybe start kissing on your partner, and your brain receives all this stimulation, it's like, "Ah, that feels really nice." And you turn and do maybe some more things, and there's a hand that goes up a shirt, and your brain's like, "That's... You know what, how about the sexy times?" Right? It's kaboom that emerges in response to pleasure. The cuddle, snuggle model. And then there's the Liz Lemon, "Let's do this," model, Where you dump the toys in the toybox, it's 3:00 on Saturday afternoon, you'd said that you would. "You, me, and the red underwear, here we go. Let's just get in the bed and go." [laughter] Emily Nagoski: And you put your body in the bed, and you put your skin against your partner's skin, and you remember that you like this. You like this person. You enjoy these sensations. And you allow your body to remember that this is fun and good. That's responsive desire. And all three of those are 100% normal... Neil Sattin: Normal. Emily Nagoski: Healthy ways. Right? That's... Many people feel that if you have to set appointments, if you don't already crave it when you get in bed, then there's something wrong. Nope. That's how it works sometimes. Most people will experience all of these different kinds of desire in their life. Some people never experience spontaneous desire. Some people have no experience of responsive desire. What matters is that you just notice that there are differences, and there are changes, and they are all 100% normal. And you can maximize responsive desire. The main way to maximize responsive desire is not to judge or shame it, but simply allow it. You allow desire to emerge from pleasure. My three-word... It rhymes and everything, so you can remember it and tell your friends, is, "Pleasure is the measure." Pleasure is the measure of sexual well-being. It's not how much you crave it, it's not how often you do it, or where you do it, or what you do, or how many people, or even how many orgasms you have. It's whether or not you like the sex you are having. Neil Sattin: Mm-hmm. Emily Nagoski: There's this sex therapist in New Jersey named Christine Hyde, who uses this party metaphor, she says to her clients, "If you're invited to a party by your best friend, of course you say yes 'cause it's your best friend and it's a party. But then as the date approaches, you start thinking, 'Ugh! There's gonna be all this traffic. We gotta find childcare. Do I really wanna put on pants on a Friday?'" [chuckle] Emily Nagoski: But like, you go because you said you would and it's your best friend and it's a party and what happens? Most of the time you have a good time at the party. If you are having fun at the party, you are doing it right. Pleasure is the measure of sexual well-being. Neil Sattin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And just as a quick addendum because I love how you suggest this in your book and it's something we've talked about on the show before, sometimes in that context taking sex off the table or making it okay to... That this isn't leading to sex, this is just about exploring pleasure that can, I think... That's one of those things that takes the brakes off. Yeah. Emily Nagoski: It reduces the performance demand. Yes. Absolutely. Neil Sattin: Yeah. So... Emily Nagoski: I have actually started recommending that couples, when they... If they set an appointment, they set a date of like Saturday at 3:00, you and me, we're gonna do something, they set very firm limits on what they're allowed to do. Sometimes, it means not actually touching each other. Sometimes distance is... And this is the reason why I find both Esther Perel's model and John Gottman's model to be helpful, because people vary a lot in what works for them. Some people crave the closeness in order to facilitate desire and some people really long to have distance to have a bridge to cross to move toward their partner. People just have different strategies in the same way our brakes and gas are different. So figuring out what to do in that chunk of time that you set aside for you and your partner to do something or other that feels good, is gonna be different for you versus from everybody else that you know. Neil Sattin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So take the time to get to know yourself and what you might actually want in that circumstance. Emily Nagoski: Yeah. Right. Neil Sattin: Oh, so many things, and yet we have run out of time. Emily Nagoski, it is so great to chat with you. I think your book, Come As You Are, is really required reading for people to just come to understand themselves as sexual beings in a totally new, actually based on science and not based on fable, way. And especially if you're a woman, especially if you're in a relationship with a woman, and even if you're a man and not in a relationship with a woman, there's just so much in here that I think will help you... Neil Sattin: And non-binary people too. Neil Sattin: Yes. And anyone, wherever you are on the spectrum, this will help you come to understand yourself and how that all works within you. I'm so appreciative of your contribution through writing the book. And if people wanna find out more about you, where can they find you on the interwebs? Emily Nagoski: The main place to go is my website, which is just emilynagoski.com. Neil Sattin: Great. And we will have a link to that, along with a detailed show guide, if you visit neilsattin.com/normal, though I'm tempted to make it Pleasure is the Measure, but neilsattin.com/normal, or you can text the word Passion to the number 33444 and follow the instructions. Emily Nagoski, thanks so much. Hope to have you back again sometime! Emily Nagoski: Thank you so much! Resources: Check out Emily Nagoski's website Read Emily’s book Come As You Are: The Surprising New Science that will Transform Your Sex Life www.neilsattin.com/normal Visit to download the transcript, or text “PASSION” to 33444 and follow the instructions to download the transcript to this episode with Emily Nagoski Amazing intro/outro music graciously provided courtesy of: The Railsplitters - Check them Out  

Pat Ogden PhD is a pioneer when it comes to somatic trauma therapy. Her work has touched many people including me. Even if you don't think you have any trauma, you likely have some living in your body that your partner will activate. In this episode, Pat has some great guidance to normalize and assist you in taking small steps that will greatly benefit you and your partner as you wade through the daily triggers of long-term relationship. SHOWNOTES What got Pat into studying human beings and trauma [10:00] How Pat helped women who had difficulty experiencing sexual pleasure [13:00] What is trauma? [17:00] Why we see the ‘freeze response’ in people who were abused as children [19:00] How childhood neglect can show up as trauma in adults [20:00] What’s happening in the bodies of a couple who fights all the time? [22:00] The pursuer and withdrawer dynamic in relationship [26:00] Can we rewire our nervous systems together as a couple? [28:00] The significance of the therapist-client bond [33:00] What couples can do at home to work with their automatic nervous system responses [37:00] Is there harm in retelling a traumatic story? [43:00] Pat’s advice on embodying the self [49:00]

Summary:Trauma, unfortunately, is an experience had by most. Each of us have traumatic events that have happened either in childhood or in our adult life that form or shape part of who we are. The key is to not let our traumatic experiences and feelings dictate the rest of our lives. Tune in to hear how the treatment for trauma is NOT one-size-fits-all and how talk therapy can even present negative consequences for your overall healing and treatment. In this episode, Joseph shares four steps that can help you recover from your trauma and explains how your healing only begins with a willingness on your behalf.Time Stamped Show Notes:00:01 – Introduction to Mind Your Mind Podcast00:22 – Trauma Part 2 – Recovery01:00 – “Trauma is a fact of life … but it doesn’t have to be a life sentence” – Dr. Peter Levine01:08 – We all have experienced trauma01:34 – There is so much help that can be given to you and there’s so much that you can do about how you feel02:31 – Selecting a therapist and modalityo02:47 – A lot of therapists don’t have specialized training in traumao03:42 – Oftentimes, recounting trauma can retraumatize youo04:13 – EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) is a method Joseph suggestso05:09 – Talk therapy makes trauma worseo05:35 –TraumaHealing.orghas a tremendous amount of information on Dr. Levine’s form of treatmento05:44 –Sensorimotor Psychotherapyby Dr. Pat Ogden, is another modality Joseph recommendso06:27 – Yoga is very effective in treating trauma06:41 – Stabilizationo06:58 – Rushing your healing and progress will backfireo07:04 – Going at a slow pace is the fastest and best way to treat trauma07:10 – The worko07:29 – “Hysterical is historical”o07:41 – Whenever you decide to do the work, be willing to do it08:13 – Healing and repairo08:17 – So many things will change as you take your life backo08:37 – Healing and repair puts you in touch with your resources08:41 – Again: “Trauma is a fact of life, but it doesn’t have to be a life sentence”08:56 – 4 Books that Joseph wants to share with you:oThe Body Keeps the ScoreoWaking the TigeroIn an Unspoken VoiceoSensorimotor Psychotherapy10:48 – Visit us onMind Your Mind3 Key Points:Choose a method of healing that will suit who you are and what you need.Heal at your own pace – the worst thing you can do for yourself is to rush things.Be willing to do the work; it all begins with you.Resources Mentioned:TraumaHealing.org– Website about trauma healing with information from Dr. LevineSensorimotor Psychotherapy– Dr. Pat Ogden’s website aboMindYourMindEp018ut how sensorimotor psychotherapy can help with traumaThe Body Keeps the Score,Waking the Tiger,In an Unspoken Voice,andSensorimotor Psychotherapy– 4 books that Joseph recommends

In this episode, we are delighted to interview Bonnie Goldstein and Rochelle Lohrasbe from Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute. Developed by Dr. Pat Ogden, Sensorimotor Psychotherapy recognizes that traumatised children are at the mercy of reliving their past through bodily reactions. They recognised that managing and recovering from trauma required an awareness of physical, sensory experiences, and strategies to modulate their physiological and emotional responses. Dr. Bonnie Goldstein holds dual licenses in the state of California in Psychology and Social Work, completed her B.A. MSW, and Ph.D. at UCLA, her Ed.M. at Harvard University, and teaches graduate students at USC’s School of Social Work. Rochelle holds a PhD in Child and Youth Care (UVIC). Beginning with a career in forensic psychiatric nursing, she has 30 years of clinical experience in the areas of post-traumatic stress and attachment trauma. We hope you enjoy this practical and insightful interview. www.tipbs.com

Pat Ogden, Ph.D. is the founder and director of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute, an internationally recognized school that specializes in training psychotherapists in somatic/cognitive approaches for the treatment of post traumatic stress disorder and attachment disturbances.  She is a clinician, consultant, international lecturer and trainer, co-founder of the Hakomi Institute, and has been a faculty […]

Pat Ogden, Ph.D. is the founder and director of the Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute, an internationally recognized school that specializes in training psychotherapists in somatic/cognitive approaches for the treatment of post traumatic stress disorder and attachment disturbances.  She is a clinician, consultant, international lecturer and trainer, co-founder of the Hakomi Institute, and has been a faculty […]

An interview with Dr. Pat Ogden about working with the body in healing from trauma. Pat uses several clinical examples to describe how she works with the body to help people re-engage the physical defenses that got overwhelmed and shut down during trauma. She describes the process of allowing people to move and tremble and ...read more » The post Trauma and the Body with Pat Ogden appeared first on Safe Space Radio.

Welcome back to Therapy Chat! As 2023 comes to an end I wanted to reflect upon the year and what I learned through my experiences. Life always includes highs and lows, light and darkness. This year in my personal and professional life (so basically my whole life), there was more darkness than light. Yet upon reflection, there were so many glimmers of light within the dark times. In this episode I share my personal journey dealing with grief and loss in my personal life and how it made it difficult to keep going in my businesses. I carried a heavy burden of shame and self-blame - things just kept getting worse and worse, and I wondered how I'd be able to bear it. And things slowly, gradually, turned around, and are getting better day by day. I shared some plans for the coming year, including training in psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy and EMDR. Thank you to all of you who listen and support Therapy Chat. My hope in sharing more of my personal experience over the last year is to provide encouragement to any listeners who may need a reminder to keep going, even when you feel like there is no hope. Sometimes when everything seems really dark you can't see a way out, and eventually, a way appears if you just keep moving forward the best you can. Link to article by Dr. Pat Ogden and Dr. Janina Fisher: Appreciating Your StrengthsJoin my e-mail list to learn what's coming up in 2024 with Therapy Chat and Trauma Therapist Network and get my free PDF 5 Common Mistakes People Make When Searching For A Trauma Therapist here!We are accepting new clients in my therapy practice (for those located in Maryland). Learn more via our website: https://bahealing.com Find a trauma therapist near you via https://traumatherapistnetwork.com ! We believe that trauma is real, healing is possible and help is available at Trauma Therapist Network. Check out these great learning opportunities through our friends at the Academy of Therapy Wisdom:Working With Complex Trauma: Innovative Approaches for Restoring Mind-Body Integration with Dr. Bessel van der Kolk and Linda Thai, LMSW. The Neurobiology of Feeling Safe - Working With Boundaries Inside and Out with Jules Taylor Shore, LPC, LMFT, SEPNeurobiology with Heart - Partnering With Your Client's Brain to Make Sessions Easier and Deeper - with Jules Taylor Shore, LPC, LMFT, SEP  Living With the Legacy Of Loss - A Somatic Approach for Working With Grief with Dr. Janina Fisher Thank you to TherapyNotes for sponsoring this week's episode! TherapyNotes makes billing, scheduling,notetaking, and telehealth incredibly easy. And now, for all you prescribers out there, TherapyNotes is proudly introducing E-prescribe! Try it today with no strings attached, and see why everyone is switching toTherapyNotes, now featuring E-prescribe! Use promo code “chat” at www.therapynotes.com to receive 2 FREE months of TherapyNotes!!Find my most frequently recommended resources for learning about trauma here – includes recommended books and trainings.Love Therapy Chat? Leave a rating and review, and subscribe where you listen to your podcasts! Thank you!Podcast produced by Pete Bailey – https://petebailey.net/audioAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy