Climate Change and Happiness

Thomas and Panu met with long-time environmental and mental health advocate Bob Doppelt. Bob talked about his personal story beginning with landscape and river system conservation and moving into sustainability and leadership education. Bob also spoke of his recent activities working with the International Transformational Resilience Coalition on ways that communities can connect and adapt in the face of climate disruptions. Bob's latest work focuses on the idea of “community is medicine.” As happens when like-minded people come together, Thomas and Bob found that they had a number of mutual connections in the Oregon white water rafting community. Join us for an inspiring conversation.

Thomas and Panu engaged with therapists and researchers Camilla Gamba and Lucia Tecuta, who shared their cosmopolitan journeys into climate psychology and eco-therapy. Lucia and Camilla described their bicultural backgrounds in Italy and the US and challenges and opportunities in translating concepts like environmental identity and stewardship into the rich Italian cultural and historic context. Join us for an inspiring discussion of activism and “il dolce far niente.”

The Climate Change and Happiness podcast is focusing on our colleagues in Italy this season. In this episode, Thomas and Panu spoke with Milan psychiatrist Matteo Innocenti to discuss the growing awareness of climate psychology in the country. Matteo described his personal journey inspired by witnessing the effects of pollution in South Asia and how the COVID-era loss of his grandfather—a key environmental role model —inspired Matteo to devote his research to nature and issues like climate anxiety.

With the coming of spring in the northern hemisphere, Thomas and Panu looked ahead to the summer and reflected on how we can no longer take for granted (or trust) that the seasons will be as they were before. What may have been a benign and clement season may now bring unexpected and uncomfortable weather – and even extreme or dangerous conditions. This profound change affects our mood, identity, families, and life plans. They referenced their own experiences and examples from art and literature. Join us and prepare for your own new season. 

What does it mean to be self-sufficient and to live sustainably? How should we balance our use of modern technology with traditional living skills? Panu and Thomas discussed these and other questions with guests Mette Hartonen and Niilo Syväoja, who shared their perspectives as young adults from Finland. The group discussed ways to translate the concept of a self-sufficiency community to different cultural contexts – similar terms and ideas can include that of an eco-village, intentional community, or off-grid community, and practices of voluntary simplicity, traditional skills, living off the land, and permaculture, etc. Join us for an inspiring discussion.

Thomas and Panu spoke with accomplished Swedish climate psychologist Frida Hylander. Frida shared her journey into climate psychology, the founding of Klimatpsychologerna, and the initiatives in Sweden to support individuals and communities dealing with climate anxiety. It was validating to see the parallels between climate and emotions initiatives in the US, Sweden and Finland and notably many of the barriers are the same, such as the challenge of being a student trying to find a program that combines the study of psychology, mental health therapy and climate issues. 

Here's to in-person connections! Most people don't know that up until just a few weeks ago Thomas and Panu had never met in person. They had connected over long distance and constructed their podcast dialogue over the last few years solely through electronic means. So, it is very special to us that this episode was recorded over Thomas's living room table in Portland Oregon while Panu was visiting during his tour of the United States. So, join us as the pair discuss their podcast relationship, current events, and what Panu has been seeing and learning during his visit to Charlottesville, Virginia and across Northern California, and his hikes in the redwoods. This episode goes well with our recent theme of eco-friends, and we hope it encourages you to re-connect — in person — with someone you care about and who also shares your care for people and planet.

Thomas and Panu had a warm conversation with a long time friend and colleague of Thomas, environmental science and advocacy expert Gregory Hill. They explored the idea of “eco-friends”—the close personal relationships we have with friends and collaborators that support and inspire us in our environmental values and actions. Greg recounted his life from early connections with the desert lands of Arizona to his discovery of Buddhism and classic environmental literature, and his varied academic career. He described his research on the Pacific salmon and his service with First Nations peoples in Canada seeking legal sovereignty. The conversation highlighted the importance of the community we have and how our friendships contribute to the long term history and stability of our environmental identities. While friendships are certainly a form of social capital, our eco-friends are especially important to hold dear.

Thomas and Panu connected with Julian Manley and Kamila Kuc who joined in from Scotland and London to explore the intersections of climate change, emotions and the arts. Kamila and Julian described their recent collaboration using the practice of social dreaming, a group process to discuss and find larger meaning, emotional reality, and direction from personal dreams. Hosting social dreaming gatherings is a powerful way to foster community dialogue about eco and climate emotions and support artistic practices such as poetry and film making. They had a rich dialogue about art, action, and ways to envision nature as an active participant in our collective dreams. 

Thomas and Panu spoke with noted social and environmental psychology researcher Cindy Franz from Oberlin College. First, they revisited Cindy's foundational research on people's connectedness to nature. Then they discussed her new work on how communities adapt to climate change. Cindy noted that “adaptation begins in resilient communities” and saw her work at the local level as hopeful – “real people, attacking real problems in real communities.” She explained how she and her colleagues study the potential for feedback technology with the Oberlin Environmental Dashboard to encourage conservation behavior, connect people back to the natural world, and promote systems thinking. The message to communities was “we can deal with this, together” and we “don't have to agree on climate science to work on weather changes.” She believed a cross-partisan approach could motivate action without triggering despair. Join us for a positive episode!

Thomas and Panu met with USC climate researcher Gale Sinatra and climate psychologist Renee Lertzman and spoke about how to cope and help with recent Los Angeles wild fires—at the disaster site and from a distance. The need was made real in the context of Gale's sudden loss of her home to the recent Eaton fire and her unfolding experience as a climate refugee. 

Thomas and Panu present a special episode focusing on coping with the ongoing Los Angeles wildfires with on the ground reports from Southern California Ecotherapists Linda Buzzell and Maria Nazarian, and artist and climate activist Maksim Butayev.

Thomas and Panu Pihkala welcomed Stylianos Syropoulos, director of the Intergenerational Decisions and Effective Action (IDEA) Lab at Arizona State University to discuss his research on how people approach their legacy in relation to their environmental values. Stylianos explained that thinking about one's legacy is an ancient and cross-cultural concern. Legacy can be understood in various ways like the biological legacy of having children and grandchildren, the material legacy of the world we leave behind, and values-related legacy of preserving what we care for. All of these are affected – and often threatened – by the events of climate change. Join us for a fascinating conversation, with take-aways that might help you be your own version of “future ancestor.”

Thomas and Panu had a mindful dialog about the end of the year to new year's transition. Looking back on 2024, they noted the significance of Panu's climate emotions wheel for people new to expressing feelings about climate and environmental issues, the challenges of being seen as an expert, and the importance of taking regular breaks to appreciate our efforts and accomplishments (or what Thomas calls a “behavioral sabbath”). Looking ahead, they shared the embodied activities they each do like cross country skiing as ways to recreate and restore themselves, and taking on new creative past times like training in Butoh theater (for Panu) and drumming (for Thomas). Ultimately, they emphasized the need for seeking joy and gratitude in the face of sorrows of the world, and the importance of giving oneself and others permission to feel happiness.

Panu and Thomas met with with Brighton UK climate psychologist Steffi Bednarek, author of Climate, Psychology, and Change. They explored stages of Steffi's journey into climate psychology, and the importance of Gestalt therapy in her understandings of how our selves entwine with nature and our perceptions of environmental issues and problems. They discussed how concepts like mindfulness and “creative indifference” offer additional perspectives on the seemingly hard distinction between hope and hopelessness. Steffi also shared her efforts to to create a platform for experiential learning in climate psychology.

In another of their intimate international dialogues, Thomas and Panu discussed the significance of connecting with nature for them during the changing seasons. Panu evolved the Finnish season of Marras, the gray time of the year as Autumn transitions to darker Winter, and when it's normal for us all to be sensitive to feelings associated with grief. Thomas reflected on holidays of remembrance like Veterans Day (dating to WWI Armistice day), Remembrance Day for Species, and the Day of the Dead that help to mark our losses and celebrate our continuing bonds. Their conversation emphasized that "We create our own light when we need to" – and reminds you of the the value of your community and connections in your own place this season.

Thomas and Panu had a wide ranging exchange with journalist Anya Kamenetz (The Stolen Year, The Golden Hour) on the intersections of climate change, parenting, and mental health – in the context of the recent US elections. They discuss the importance of having open conversations with children about difficult topics that are geared to children and teens' emotional and intellectual development. Each reflected on how they create a sense of hope, meaning, and resilience in their own families. Anya also shared some of her personal story growing up on the Gulf Coast of the US, and her journey as a writer, activist and parent.

Thomas and Panu discussed Thomas' upcoming book Surviving Climate Anxiety: A Guide to Coping, Healing, and Thriving – a comprehensive resource for the general public that includes practical examples and stories drawn from people Thomas has worked with. Thomas shared insights about the book's five part structure, which is designed to move readers from basic skills for coping with eco and climate stress, through developing environmental identity, healing from eco-anxiety and despair, finding happiness and flourishing using the arts and spirituality, and taking action on environmental problems. Panu reflected on the importance of addressing the dark and light aspects of climate feelings and having a survivor mission. Surviving Climate Anxiety will be published in 2025 by Little Brown Spark.

Thomas and Panu had a conversation with Seattle Washington therapist Andrew Bryant about the intersections of climate change and mental health therapy. Andrew reflected on his personal journey, the Climate and Mind website, and his experiences creating a community among therapists to explore climate issues in their lives and practices. Andrew described some of his methods of “professional and compassionate listening” that focus on creating community and holding space for feelings, especially for people who are isolated or not talking. The discussion also touched on the significance of outdoor therapy and how nature-based rite of passage experience can help individuals to navigate their paths in the face of climate distress.

Thomas and Panu discussed the intersection of spirituality and climate change. Specifically, Panu shared his work on the challenges faced by individuals who experience spiritual crises when their ecological fears or grief aren't validated in their religious community, and who may feel isolated and unsupported. This may lead to feelings of combined ecological and spiritual grief. Faith leaders are in a key position regarding the validation of such feelings. Coping requires a holistic approach that recognizes the connections between spirituality and environmental values, finding support, and constructive engagement with climate emotions and with climate action in spiritual and religious communities. 

In this episode of Climate Change and Happiness hosts Thomas and Panu engaged with filmmakers Tehya Jennett and Maxfield Biggs from Stranded Astronaut Productions. Tehya and Maxfield shared their personal journeys related to climate emotions. They reflected, together with Panu and Thomas, on the impact of food choices on climate awareness and ethics, and the need for intergenerational dialogue. The conversation also highlighted the importance of creativity as a coping mechanism. Most recently, Maxfield and Tehya were part of the team that produced the Healing Lahaina documentary about the deadly Lahaina wildfire on Maui, premiering at the Hawai'i Int'l Film Festival. Tehya and Maxfield are also collaborating with Panu and Elin Kelsey to create new content on climate emotions. Join us in the quest of understanding how climate change is engaged with by young people.

Panu and Thomas had a warm chat with UK climate psychology theorist Sally Weintrobe,  author of The Psychological Roots of the Climate Crisis and other books. Sally reflected on her childhood growing up in apartheid era South Africa and insights that led her to climate advocacy after years of providing psychoanalysis.  She, Panu and Thomas spent time grappling with concepts like disavowal, group silencing, “active not caring” and “emotional privilege.” Listen in to a great episode for therapists, and also anyone interested in how these often unconscious processes manifest in our lives. 

Thomas and Panu reflected on the often overlooked process of re-entry into life after a holiday or vacation. They considered Thomas's idea of the “half-life” of restorative experiences. That is, how long the mental benfits of the experience enhance your normal or usual existence, such through increased perspective or calm, and how to extend these positive effects. They also recognized how technology and consumerism have infiltrated into seasonal breaks and holidays. And the shadow impacts of guilt regarding travel impacts on the environment, and emotional risks of returning from a holiday to face unsatisfying aspects of life. Mindfulness and intention are important for bringing the gifts and perspectives gained from a trip back into your everyday life, whether from a simple, local holiday or an ambitious journey. We hope this episode will be inspiring for listeners returning from seasonal holidays in the Northern and Southern hemispheres. 

Thomas and Panu spoke with three graduate student researchers from the The Development, Environment, & Wellness Lab at Columbia University Teachers College in New York: Paritosh Joshi, Rian Maxwell-Williams, and Danny DeBonis. All three are deeply engaged in environmental psychology and justice issues. They discussed their personal backgrounds, environmental identities, and the values and goals for their research. Join us for an inspiring conversation!

Thomas and Panu spoke with Judith Anderson and Tree Staunton, two therapists and co-editors (along with Jenny O'Gorman and Caroline Hickman) of the recent collection Being a Therapist in a Time of Climate Breakdown. The foursome explored their experiences of mental health, research and healing work in the context of climate change and the psychologicals impact of climate distress. Tree and Judith shared their personal journeys towards climate awareness.  The episode included an overview of the structure and themes of the book, which includes chapters on climate science, mental health impacts, first person accounts, systemic understandings, and techniques to address climate distress (including a contribution on climate sorrow from Panu).

This episode is dedicated to teachers and educators of all kinds. Thomas and Panu discussed the new Existential Toolkit for Climate Justice Educators and the emotional, political, personal and pedagogical challenges faced by teachers in the context of climate change.  The conversation delved into the history of the Toolkit project, the lingering impact of COVID-19 on education, and the unacknowledged and inequitable impacts of climate and weather disasters on students, teachers and school systems, worldwide. Panu and Thomas reflected on their own schooling in Finland and the US,  their personal teaching experiences, and advice on how to remain creative and to cope with fatigue and burnout. 

Thomas and Panu spoke with Ryan Reese, a psychologist from Bend, Oregon USA about his work developing eco-wellness theory in counseling and his recent integration of psychedelic therapy and outdoor therapy. Ryan shared his personal journey and how experiences with nature and rivers (including fly fishing for Steelhead trout) played a role in his healing and growth. Ryan, Panu and Thomas highlighted the parallels between eco-therapy and psychedelic therapy, including the importance of creating a safe setting, adopting a mindset of self-transcendence and opening to the process of expanding one's consciousness. Their talk concluded with a recognition of how Thomas and Ryan's social connection provided needed support during challenging times in Thomas's earlier career. 

Thomas and Panu spoke with Will White, a long time outdoor and wilderness therapy practitioner, and a long time colleague of Thomas. They discussed the evolution of therapeutic camping and outdoor programs in the US dating to the 1800's and current approaches (with parallels in places like Finland).They explored the role of emotions in outdoor therapy, including eco-anxiety and the impact of environmental change on treasured places. Their conversation highlighted the importance of slowing down and experiencing the pace of nature in a highly technological world. 

In this episode, Thomas and Panu discussed the role of art in their emotional coping with climate stress and other environmental problems. They explored the creative tensions between art and entertainment and being mindful when we chose to challenge ourselves with taking on complex or troubling movies, photographic images, writings, and music. They shared several examples and referenced their past podcast episodes with artists. Takeaways included the importance of being intentional about the nature and climate themed art you take in and not just being a passive consumer; and the need to unplug and engage in hands-on artistic experiences.

Thomas and Panu talked with forensic psychiatrist Lise Van Susteren about her powerful experience as an expert witness at the historic Held v. Montana youth-sponsored climate trial in 2023. Lise spoke of her life and journey into politics and environmental and climate change advocacy, and her formative experience in the first cohort of Al Gore's Climate Reality project. Lise, Thomas and Panu reflected on how mental health professions can begin to align their rhetoric about climate change and sustainability with their actions – such as addressing the carbon footprints of their own organizations and conferences. Join us for a behind the scenes view of the legal front on combating climate change. 

Thomas and Panu had a new dialogue with UK Climate Therapy expert Caroline Hickman to discuss the concept of moral injury in relation to climate distress and its impact on people's sense of meaning and trust. The conversation delved into feelings that arise in situations where one's values are compromised and the impacts to relationships (e.g., feeling let down, betrayed, or having feelings denied). Caroline emphasized the need to differentiate between toxic and healthy guilt, to “locate guilt where it belongs,” and the importance of reparation and saying sorry on the part of people in power (with the example of former New Zealand Prime Minister  Jacinta Arden). Panu noted that engaging in a survivor mission and taking action can provide a sense of purpose and contribute to addressing moral injury. Join us for reflections on responsibility and healing amidst a changing climate.

In this episode, Thomas and Panu discuss the importance of finding a place, digging in, and taking responsibility in the face of climate change and environmental issues. They explore the idea of being a creator or actor rather than a passive consumer and the significance of having short-term and long-term goals. Our missions take place in a web of relationships with humans and more-than-humans. Panu and Thomas also touch on the connection between climate change and death, and the need to engage with difficult topics. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the concept of non-action and the importance of mindfulness.

Thomas and Panu were joined by LaUra Schmidt, co- founder of the Good Grief Network and co-author of How to Live in a Chaotic Climate. Laura shared her journey of combining her background in biology and environmental studies with trauma healing and psychology to address the emotional toll of climate change. She, Panu and Thomas discussed how the 12-step inspired Good Grief program helps individuals process their grief and find resilience about climate breakdown in a safe and supportive environment. Along the way, they looked deeper at the process of steps like accepting the severity of the environmental predicament, being with uncertainty, and honoring mortality; and the importance of peer support, accountability, and finding one's unique way of taking action. Join us for an inspiring conversation!

In this episode, Thomas and Panu discussed some real-world aspects of nature and our relationship with the natural world, including different values associated with nature and other species, such as scientific, ethical, relationship and  experience-based values. Thomas illustrated a spectrum of nature settings, from virtual nature such as art and images in the home, to nearby nature in our communities, to wild and protected places – with opportunities to be a cosmopolitan traveler between these contexts. The conversation evolved into a recognition of nature (in Finnish “luonto”) as an infinite set of processes and relationships, with nature settings being a doorway or threshold into the interconnectedness and interdependence of all beings. Panu and Thomas also touched on the concept of the “more than human world” (inspired by eco philosopher David Abram) and the need for “recollective practices” (inspired by ecopsychology theorist Andy Fisher) to connect with nature and counteract the divisive aspects of modern technological society.

Panu and Thomas had an inspiring dialog with vision quest facilitator Trebbe Johnson, founder of Radical Joy for Hard Times. They discussed the concept of radical joy in the face of environmental grief and the importance of acknowledging and confronting our sorrow for the natural world. Trebbe shared her personal journey of connecting with nature and how it led her to create an organization that focuses on finding joy and gratitude in damaged places. Panu and Trebbe also discussed their time together in Finland in November 2023 and the workshops they led.

In this episode, Panu and Thomas reflected on ways to find a sense of meaning during an era of climate breakdown and other stresses. This can include meaning in your life (such as values that guide you) and meanings of and about your life (your purpose and reasons for living, such as caring for family). Their conversation ranged over profound topics like figuring out a life path, dealing with changes and threats, and the importance of opening up and asking big questions about meaning and happiness. Join the conversation!

In this wide-ranging dialog, ecotherapy pioneer Linda Buzzell looked back on her history including her early environmental awakening working with French oceanographer Jacques Cousteau, her training in Marriage and Family Therapy and systems thinking, and her local activism in Santa Barbara, California. Linda described the development of the “Waking Up Syndrome” concept of sudden ecological awareness with her colleague Sarah Edwards and creation of  the Ecotherapy anthology with Craig Chalquist. She, Thomas and Panu also discussed the distinctions between human-centered and nature-centered ecotherapy perspectives and the need for community-level approaches. 

Thomas and Panu had a wide ranging and stimulating dialog with Matthew Schneider-Mayerson, an associate professor of English at Colby College whose work touches on the cultural and political dynamics of climate change with a focus on literature and climate justice. Matthew shared his environmental identity “origin story” including his early anti-sweatshop activism and discovering Elizabeth Kolbert's classic climate change narrative Field Notes from a Catastrophe while waiting in his therapist's office. We discussed insights from his projects like the Ecotopian Lexicon and thoughts about helping his students create rituals together to show value for nature and the more-than human world.  

What kinds of losses do we experience due to environmental problems, and how can we understand the unique feelings of grief and sorrow that can ensue? Panu talked about his recent research paper, Ecological Sorrow: Types of Grief and Loss in Ecological Grief, that applied general knowledge about grief to ecological sorrow with more nuance than has previously been attempted. Thomas shared his reactions and the duo discussed ways to cope with issues like invisible losses that are “disenfranchised” and not officially recognized by society, and situations when people are not allowed to openly express their grief and sorrow about nature. Panu's work reveals how ecological losses can be hard to measure and seemingly never ending, which makes ideas like “nonfinite loss” and “chronic sorrow” very relevant. Thomas and Panu shared ways to face ecological loss and grief in a healthy way, and invited listeners to reflect on their own feelings and ways of expression.  

Thomas and Panu spoke with Tim Lomas, an emotions researcher and author of works like Translating Happiness and the Positive Power of Negative Emotions, who has been influential on the field of positive psychology and on our podcast. It's always enlightening to hear about a thinker's background. Tim shared a bit of his story including an influential time spent in China at age 19 that exposed him to Buddhist and Daoist ideas that he continues to explore in his positive psychology research. The discussion touched on the benefits of the unique “granular,” that is specific and nuanced, nature of certain emotions words that can be complex and challenging to translate outside of their native language (such as Finnish sisu, Japanese wabi-sabi or Portuguese saudade). We can use a global palate of emotions to shine a light on our relationships with nature and the natural world, including our joys, hopes, and fears. 

Thomas and Panu took stock of their feelings about the world as 2023 came to a close, and invited listeners to do the same. Thomas reflected on two quotes that are important to him and changing ways he has interpreted their meaning over the years: “In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's mind there are few” (Shunryu Suzuki); and “Find your place on the planet. Dig in, and take responsibility from there” (Gary Snyder). Panu described a ritual he participated in for the International Remembrance Day for Lost Species, celebrated on November 30. He and Thomas contemplated the importance of rituals, ceremonies and the arts including the recent Future Landscapes project.  The idea of taking stock at the end of the year is echoed in the recent COP 28 meeting and 1st Global Stocktake—a process for countries to see how they're collectively making progress towards meeting the goals of the Paris Climate Change Agreement. We know global warming will not be limited to 1.5 degrees Celsius / 2.7 Fahrenheit. We need to adapt to a hotter world, take care of the most vulnerable, and keep working to cool the planet down by all means necessary.  

Thomas and Panu were joined by UK therapist and researcher Caroline Hickman. Caroline reflected on her formerly separate backgrounds as an environmentalist and a psychotherapist and pivotal nature experiences she had in midlife as a diving instructor that brought “all the parts of her life together." Caroline, Panu and Thomas discussed their recent activities and collaborations including the groundbreaking 2021 Lancet global survey of young people's climate emotions in ten countries worldwide. This research was powerful, Caroline and Panu explained, as it revealed crucial underlying facets of climate anxiety in youth including a lack of faith in leaders and a sense of betrayal by adults. Caroline also told of her interview studies with children and the fact that kids often know and care more than adults notice. Join us for a candid conversation and an invitation to reflect on what climate feelings tell us about the needs of young people and adults around us.  

Thomas and Panu reflected on varieties of the feeling of bitterness in response to the chronic stress of climate and environmental problems—ranging from Finnish concepts like epäreiluuden tunne (unfairness-feeling) to the “Cassandrafreude” described by climate scientists (the bitter pleasure of things going wrong in exactly the way you predicted, but no one believed you when it could have made a difference). As Panu observed, it is a psychological and ethical challenge to be proud (in a healthy way) of one's own good actions, including “chosen losses” where a conscious decision is made to relinquish something, and to avoid (at least overly strong) bitterness. Thomas also referenced thinkers like Myisha Cherry and Audre Lorde who highlight the ethical reasons for not forgiving in the face of betrayals and injustice. 

This episode found Thomas and Panu in dialogue with Herb Simmens, a long time advocate for addressing climate issues in local government, and author of the compendium of climate-related terms, A Climate Vocabulary of the Future. What kind of new words could be useful to make sense of living in the midst of climate change?

Thomas interviewed Panu about his recent climate emotions research and the Climate Emotions Wheel created by the Climate and Mental Health Network based on Panu's work.

As the southern hemisphere summer approaches, Joëlle Gergis spoke with Panu and Thomas about her most recent book Humanity's Moment and the unique emotional challenges of confronting the human and wildlife toll of climate disasters in Australia. Joëlle Gergis is an award-winning climate scientist and writer from the Australian National University. Joëlle was a lead author on the IPCC 6th Assessment report: Climate Change 2021: The Physical Science Basis. Joelle spoke with Panu and Thomas about her most recent book Humanity's Moment and the emotional challenges of confronting the severe human and wildlife toll of climate disasters in Australia. As Joelle noted, Australia is one of the world's most vulnerable developed nations in terms of climate disruptions as well as a leader in fossil fuel production. So, Australians' efforts at coping and making change are important learning for others around the globe. 

Thomas and Panu reflected on the recent Oppenheimer film, and how cold war-era fear and anxiety about global nuclear armageddon compares with contemporary fear and anxiety about the threats global climate change poses to society and the livability on our planet. Thomas spoke to the challenge of weighing the benefits of nuclear power as a strategy to help combat the climate crisis against the environmental dangers, ongoing dangers of nuclear conflict, and the still toxic legacy of radioactive waste from the construction of atomic weapons. Panu reflected on various forms of anxiety and other feelings these dilemmas inspire in us, including the “anxiety of responsibility” we feel about making decisions about them.

In a session devoted to the healing aspects of walking outdoors, Thomas and Panu spoke with social worker Jennifer Udler, author of the new book Walk and Talk Therapy: A Clinician's Guide to Incorporating Movement and Nature into Your Practice. Their discussion touched on the practicalities of walking therapy as a modality, philosophical and transformative aspects of walking in terms of metaphors and pilgrimages, and the recognition that walking opens us both to the wonder of the natural world, and also dark aspects, including lack of safe spaces for some, and a new normal in which we all cannot separate our walking from climate change effects like heat and wildfire smoke. A key takeaway was the importance of developing a consistent relationship with a specific place, across seasons, times and weathers. 

Panu and Thomas offered listeners advice with how to cope with the new class of “unnatural disasters” that have beset the globe in past weeks and months—horrific damage from wildfires that are supercharged or that arise in places we don't expect them, coping with simultaneous earthquakes and hurricanes—in Greece, Canada, Los Angeles, Lahaina and beyond. Thomas explained key differences in how varied types of disasters are experienced and understood. He reflected on how the loss of a treasured place like Lahaina touches both Hawaiian natives and the many visitors who have had special life experiences there (with echoes of New Orleans and the Katrina disaster). Panu shared insights from his research and the recognition that coping calls for “skills in grief,” and when appropriate, “skills in joy.” Thomas introduced the concept of “disaster subcultures”: recognizing how groups see and react to the same disasters quite differently, for example, government officials, professional first responders, and the general public—and the resulting “disaster diversity” we need to respect. What are the pros and cons of concepts like “Polycrisis” for our coping? Either as a technical description of simultaneous catastrophic events or a blanket term for a sense of global breakdown? Join us and share your thoughts. 

Panu and Thomas were joined by Leslie Davenport who discussed her 2017 book Emotional Resiliency in the Era of Climate Change, and recent All the Feelings Under the Sun designed for children. Leslie reflected on her background in dance and as a member of an interdisciplinary medical team and how this contributed to her focus on the body and creative visualization in her ecotherapy work.

In this episode, Thomas and Panu focused on the emotional aspects of travel, particularly air travel, and all the competing thoughts and feelings we have about this. Our journeys to see the world and our far flung loved ones are a central part of our lives. But, in this age of climate crisis, air travel—whether through privilege or as a sacrifice and necessity–opens us up to troubling ethical issues about our own contributions to climate problems and being trapped in an earth-damaging system of inequality and destructive tourism. Panu brought his usual wise perspective on climate emotions. Thomas shared the “UR3OK” model he uses to help people make environmentally-responsible decisions (Understand, Reduce-Reuse-Resist…, Offset, and be Kind to ourselves and others in the process).