Podcast appearances and mentions of jay mcfarland

If we look at the idea of reactivating your client base in as many ways as possible, it means interacting with the people who have spent the money with us and doing that at a personal level, building the relationship, that's about the best thing we can do. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, cohost Jay McFarland, and I will be discussing reactivating your client base. Welcome Jay. Jay: It's good to be here. You know, it's funny. I hear this everywhere I go now. If I watch Shark Tank or anything else, I hear this term CAC. You know, what is your CAC? And it's your customer acquisition cost. And I have to believe that your CAC, for a customer you've already worked with, has got to be lower than trying to bring in a brand new customer. Am I right? David: Oh, absolutely. And I think instinctively as business people, we probably already know this. We've probably heard it a hundred times, but the purpose of this discussion is not to have you hear it again. The purpose of this discussion is to ask, “are you doing this?” And if so, how well are you doing this? How much better could you be doing this? Because as you pointed out, once you've invested that money to acquire a customer, now you want to be able to leverage that relationship as much as possible to provide them with additional help, additional solutions so that you can generate the revenue. They can get the results they're looking for, and you're not spending more money to attract people. You're able to just expand the relationships that you have with the people who you've already acquired that first time. Jay: Yeah. And I think it's disappointing if you spent that money for customer acquisition and then you don't have a system to retain them or keep them online. And so now it's almost like you're spending the same money twice. If you're trying to get them back again. David: Right. Yes. And so when we think about reactivation, there are a couple of aspects to it. One is just people who haven't bought from you in a little while, to touch base with them again, to reengage those people and to see what they want, what they need. Essentially, requalifying them to find out where they are in that process. Are they ready to buy more things? Do they have a date in mind when they want to buy? Are they ready to go now? Or are they just not ready to do anything? Are they sort of disqualified for the moment? Are they unresponsive to you? Because they'll generally fall into one of those five categories. They're either ready to buy. They have dates in mind when they want to buy. They're open to the idea, but not sure when. Or they're disqualified, or they're not responsive. When you are able to go back and sort of requalify your existing clients, you can reactivate the ones who are ready to go now. You can schedule the ones who know when they want to go next. And the ones who are generally receptive, you can just stay in touch. Jay: Yeah. Or what about the ones who were disappointed, but they didn't take the time. Right? So many customers will never tell you that they had a bad experience. They just move on and… David: Yeah. Jay: you had no idea. So you're not improving your customer service and your chance of reviving that customer is very low. David: Yeah. And that's an excellent point, too. Because as you indicated, if you don't know that, but you're reaching out to them to see how you can help next, and you find out about that problem, then at least you have the possibility of restoring the relationship, if not doing anything about the previous order. Jay: Yeah. So what are we talking about here? Like good drip campaigns? Is that kind of where you would start? So you're in constant contact? What do you think is the best way to go about this? David: Well, I do think it starts with engaging your people. You can engage your people in a lot of different ways. It can be done via email with a drip campaign.

Disrupting sales relationships is tricky. When you go into a sales presentation, if you recognize that it's likely they're going to have someone, and if you've got an arsenal of responses that you can come back with to demonstrate to them why you are obviously the better choice, then they're going to be a lot more likely to at least give you a shot at that business, than if you don't have those things in place. David: Hi, and welcome back in today's episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of disrupting sales relationships. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. It's a pleasure as always. I don't want to do it.  Don't want to disrupt sales processes. I refuse. Don't want to do it. David: Okay. I refuse to participate. Yeah, it's a tough one. The word disrupt is a tough word. But the reality of the situation is that when we're approaching a new prospect, a new client, and that person already has a business relationship, perhaps with a competitor of ours -- the only way that we're even going to get a shot at that business is if we can, in some way, disrupt the existing sales relationship. Now, I'm not talking about trying to drive a wedge between people. I'm not talking about anything nefarious. I'm just talking about the idea that to disrupt an established sales relationship, particularly one that is going reasonably well, requires you to be significantly better and different than the option that they're already looking at. Jay: Yeah, I agree. and I think that this starts way ahead of trying to disrupt any particular process that's going on right now. We've talked about, in the past, do you know your competitors at all? Do you know their sales process? I mean, how would you disrupt anything if you didn't know the process of what was going on? David: Yeah, exactly. And if you think in terms of business relationships versus personal relationships, when you're in high school and you first start dating, and the person that you like is already attracted to somebody else, like, oh, okay, well, how am I going to position myself as a better alternative, a better option, right? So it requires strategy. It requires persistence. It requires some sort of advantage, right? Some sort of, what we would call in business, a competitive advantage. And we need to think through those things, because it's the same in a business relationship. If they've got a great business relationship, it's going to be a lot harder. In those situations, we have to determine whether or not it even makes sense for us to try to provide a better solution. But here's the thing, if we truly believe that our solution is better than whatever they're currently receiving Then we kind of owe it to them to let them know that, don't we? Jay: Oh, yeah, I absolutely agree with that and we talked I think in the last podcast that we're a company that loves it when you talk to our competitors. We love it when you're in a sales process with somebody else, cause we know how unique we are in our presentation, in our initial consultations. We know. And so the key for us to disrupting an existing sales process with somebody else is just, how do we get them to call us? How do we introduce ourselves to them mid process? Because we know if they can find us or we can find them, our chances are pretty good. David: Exactly. And so in your situation where you're using online resources like pay per click and things like that, it's a matter of getting some sort of messaging in front of them that has them questioning at that point, whether or not there is a better alternative out there for them. And so the only people who are going to schedule a call with you are the ones who have determined that they are at least open to exploring that sort of relationship. I think it's interesting that a lot of times in business loyalty is often based on inertia, right? It's just easier to stick with what I have rather than to try to fin...

Getting to your ideal prospects involves identifying what our ideal prospect looks like in terms of the type of customer we're looking for, the type of industry they're in, the number of people in their organization if we're selling B2B. All these considerations that are going to add up to the ideal prospect, because until we know who it is we're going to go after, we have absolutely no idea where to go to find them. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of getting to your ideal prospects. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you so much. Another great topic. We could call this one the Holy Grail of Sales. How much time does everybody spend talking to people who would never be their client in the first place? What would you do with all that extra time? David: It is an amazing amount of time. When we work with clients, that is one of the biggest ways that they get back time that is otherwise spent. Very often, when people are considering the idea of working with us to help them grow their sales and profits, it's like, “well, am I going to have time to do this?” And nine times out of 10, they don't have time not to do it. Because they're wasting, in many cases, so much time with poor, unqualified prospects. And simply by taking a few specific actions, you can pretty much eliminate a lot of that right up front, save yourself enormous amounts of time, and better still, being able to then interact with the types of clients you actually want to do business with Jay: But I'm a new company. I need money to pay my bills. I need to try and close everybody. Isn't that what you would hear? David: In the early stages, everybody says that, and after they've been in business for a while, they try to figure out, now how do I undo what I've done? How do I untie this knot that I've tied for myself over the past however, many months or years? But yeah, in the early stages, we just want to take anyone who's willing to do business with us. But eventually, when our true selves kick in -- when we find ourselves in a conversation with the wrong client, somebody that we took on a while before, and we recognize, wow, this was a mistake -- that's when you start thinking, Okay, well, maybe what I need to do going forward is to not just take anyone. I need to identify who are these ideal prospects. How can I identify and initiate contact with the right people up front so that I'm not wasting a lot of time with the wrong people down the line. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. I have a business partner and he's this sage old business partner. He's built several businesses on his own over the years and I didn't know he was even doing it, but he has this list of people who he doesn't want to do business with anymore. He calls it the naughty list. And, somebody came around and they were repurchasing our services. He just, with no emotion said, “nah, I don't want to do that.” And I'm like, what are you talking…? I didn't even remember the customer. And he's like, “no, they're on the naughty list. They were a pain. They didn't provide what we needed soon enough and they harassed us on our pricing. The answer is no.” And so he's got this Santa Claus naughty list, and I was like, “but they want to give us money.” And I've just come around to his way of thinking. I am not emotional about it anymore. They're on the list. Forget it. David: It's a lump of coal for you, baby. That's how it works. Yeah. I mean, it is a strong argument for the fact that you don't need more prospects, you need the right prospects. You don't need more customers necessarily, you need more of the right customers. Because life is too short to do anything else in my view. Jay: Yeah. Let's say that you spend 10 hours a day working with customers are doing sales for potential customers, and five of those hours are spent on people who are not the right fit.

In order to turn the tables on rejection in sales, there are very specific steps you can take, and we work with our clients to help them do that every day of the week. David: Hi and welcome back in today's episode co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of turning the tables on rejection in sales. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey Dave, it's always good to talk with you and I love these topics. They're so important I think more than anything, at least for me, rejection, fear of rejection stops me from doing a lot of things that I know I should be doing. David: Yeah. And you are really not alone. I think we've all felt that way at one point or other. I know there was a period of time, a lot of years ago, where I was so frustrated by this that I'm like, okay, what can we do? To not just try to overcome it, not just try to overcome the fear, but to actually turn the tables on rejection in sales. And essentially what I came up with is that in order to make that happen, we have to take the initiative in terms of identifying the types of clients that we want, the types of clients that we will accept. And by leading with that strength, going into each prospecting opportunity with the idea that I may accept this client, I may not. They may accept me, they may not. If the two of us agree that we want to work together, we will. And if one of us doesn't want to work together, we won't. And being okay with that, Once I embraced that idea and that concept, everything became a lot easier. Jay: Yeah. So just a paradigm shift. I will tell you, and this is no joke, before we dive into your concept a little bit more, I went to a doctor and I said, just give me a drug that makes me not fear rejection. He didn't have it, but hey, I was willing to try anything. David: Yeah, it's funny because you would think there'd be something for that. I guess maybe something that might relax you or make you not care as much about the rejection, but, short of medication, I think the idea of sort of reframing it in some ways and saying, all right, I'm going to do what I can on my end in terms of identifying the clients that I want to work with. And just by doing that, you can actually eliminate a lot of rejection when you decide in advance that there are some people you're going to talk to that are probably just not a good fit for you. Jay: Yeah, I love this and I feel like I've been doing this, but not purposefully like you're talking about. I get to the point now where when I talk to somebody and they're not interested, I almost feel glad. Because through the conversation, I learn they're not really a good fit for me. So we both kind of decide that on our own. We wish each other well. I add them to our drip campaign and it's done. I can hang up the phone call and do other work or move on to the next call. David: Yeah. It's so much better when you're able to take an approach like that and feel good about the fact that we really weren't born to do business with anyone who can fog a mirror, right? It's not an ideal scenario for either of us. I also realized at some point or other that rejection in some ways can actually be a tool to help you find better clients, whether you're the one who's rejecting them, basically saying, okay, this isn't a good fit. Or even in a situation where if you decide you would potentially like to work with them, if they decide they don't want to work with you, if you view it as essentially a way for you to be able to find better clients, that also makes it quite a bit easier to take. Jay: Yeah, I think I told you in the past, my dad was a salesman his whole life and I asked him how did you deal with rejection and he said I look at no's as a positive. I know what my close rate is. I know how many cold calls I have to make. And so every time I got a no, that means I was one step closer to the yes. So, changing your outlook, your mindset, it actually made him feel good.

"You have to create value in the sales process, create value in all the communication that you're putting out there. When you do that, you're already positioned better and differently. So when you think about the idea of what you say about what you do, you're doing it in a way that is actually appealing to people rather than repellent." David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the topic "what you say about what you do." What it is, Jay? Jay: Hey, David, how's it going? Once again, it's a pleasure to be here. I think, how we view ourselves, how we talk to ourselves, what is that inner monologue? Those types of things, they matter a lot, and they're probably things that we never think about. David: Yeah. And it's interesting you should bring that up. Because when we talk about what we say about what we do, yeah, there's what you just mentioned, what we're telling ourselves in our own heads. And then there's also the idea of what we're saying to prospects and clients about what we will potentially do for them. Essentially the communication, the messaging that we are putting out into the world, that will allow someone to decide whether or not they want to do business with us. Jay: Yeah. And this is so important because if you over promise, you're setting up for failure from the beginning, right? If you under promise, then they may find a competitor who promises something faster or better. So there is a strike zone there somewhere that you have to find. David: Exactly. And our messaging is very likely either going to attract the person we're talking to, or it's going to repel them. Probably the worst case scenario is if it does neither. It's just totally boring and they're not even paying attention to what you have to say. But when we recognize that, particularly in the early stages, what we tell them about what we do or what we're planning to do for them is going to determine the nature of the relationship. If we communicate something that sounds appealing to them, It's like they'll be interested. If we communicate something that does not sound appealing to them, then it's likely they are not going to be interested. So we don't want to go into these situations and wing it, particularly when we're going from prospect to prospect. We want to make sure that we're creating a consistent experience so that each person we talk to is getting the best of what we have to offer, up front, so they can make an intelligent decision. Jay: Yeah, we've really started using, I learned it from being in the media, process language. Like, if you are out doing a news report somewhere, you didn't just say, well, I'm standing on the street corner and this is what I'm seeing. You instead say, "well, we got here about 20 minutes ago when we rolled up, this is what we saw. This is what we're seeing, right? You bring them with you to wherever you're at. And so we kind of do this process language, not just about how we got here. And process questions. Like I want to know what drove you to call me. So that's the first thing I want to know, "what drove you to call me?" The second thing I want to know is, what is your expectation from this call? Like what are you hoping to gain from it? And then we can get to where we're at. And then we'll start talking a little bit. If you use our services, this will be the process moving forward. By the time we've shaped this whole thing, it's like we've been friends for years, you know what I mean? So, it's something that I love doing and it makes the potential client very comfortable. David: It makes a whole lot of sense and it's really about being present in that moment with the prospect or client, and having them be there with you at that point as well. Where one person is not talking, another person is totally tuned out. It really is about creating that level of communication where you are interacting the way that...

Reimagining the essentials is different for everyone. And I hear both sides of that from people. I hear people who are like, ” oh yeah, you know, I've been doing this forever. I know exactly what I'm doing and all that sort of thing.” And then I have people on the other side who are like, “Hey, I'm doing all the things that I've done before. I'm doing it more aggressively. I'm doing much more of it. I'm doing it with more people and it's not working.” And so for the people who are struggling with that… again, it's not really a matter of saying, “well, now instead of prospecting, we need to do something different.” No, you're still going to need to do prospecting. The question is, “can we now do it in a way that is going to reach the people that you need to reach, communicate the things that we need to communicate and allow us to advance our communications and close the sales?” David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. Today, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing reimagining the essentials. Welcome, Jay. Good to have you here. Jay: It's so good to be here once again. I'm very excited about today's topic. What's the Point of Reimagining the Essentials? David: Yeah. I mean the whole idea of the essentials to some people it's like, "oh, essentials, that's boring." Right? But it seems to me that in current times we really need to look at the essentials and say, "okay, how can we tweak them or fine tune them or change them around so that they're going to be more effective in a 21st century post-COVID economy?" Jay: Yeah. When I think about essentials, I think about foundational type things. And once you take away the foundation, other things that you have in play don't work as well. So what type of essentials specifically are we talking about that we want to, that we might look at in one when everybody looks at it that way, but we're going to reimagine or rethink about them in a different way? David: Well, I guess when I think of the fundamentals or the essentials, I tend to think of the real basics, prospecting, presenting, following up when it comes to sales. And sometimes you start talking about those things and people's eyes glaze over like, "oh, I know all that stuff." And yeah, we all know we need to do it. Knowing and Doing are Two Different Things We all know we need to do prospecting. We need to make presentations. We need to follow up with prospects and clients. But knowing it, knowing what to do, is really not the issue at all. It's how are we doing it? How well are we doing it? How much better are we doing it than our competitors? How frequently are we doing it? How consistently are we doing it? There are all these different nuanced aspects of it that completely change the results. And when we look at things like prospecting now versus five years ago, 10 years ago, it's completely different. Same thing with presenting, same thing with following up. In the past, it was basically phone and in person. Well now phone and in person are a lot less popular than other methods of communication. So that's really what I'm talking about here. Jay: Yeah, I think again, it's so important, you know, it's so easy to just fall into that trap of I've, you know, we've done it this way forever and it's always worked. I think it's hard for people to break free from those things, because it's hard to know what type of impact you really can have. And I think part of that is even understanding what your baseline is before you can make changes to understand if you're making any progress, right? What Happens When Everything Changes? David: Yeah, absolutely. And I hear both sides of that from people. I hear people who are like, " oh yeah, you know, I've been doing this forever. I know exactly what I'm doing and all that sort of thing." And then I have people on the other side who are like, "Hey, I'm doing all the things that I've done before. I'm doing it more aggressively.

Don't be invisible to your target market. Do they even know you're alive? This goes back to the idea of money versus time. Because one of the advantages of social media is that if you have more time than you have money, you can spend more time posting and contacting people directly on social media. If you have more money than you have time, then you can run ads and you can get your ads in front of people without having to sit in front of the computer all day. So there are definitely different ways to accomplish this. If you want to become visible though, you have to have one or the other. You have to have time or money. You can't be out of both. Well, I have no money and I have no time to do this. Well, at that point, you're out of business. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the topic of, Are You Invisible to Your Target Market? Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much, David. This one is tough for me because when you know you have a product that people want, you just know it. And you know if they could just learn about you, that you would be able to sell this product and you just know they don't see you. It's a frustration. It really is. David: Yeah, we've talked about this topic before. I've talked about this topic in live presentations and probably in previous podcasts, and one of the reasons that I keep coming back to it is that it really resonates with a lot of people in business, a lot of sales people, a lot of business owners, because it is so important. The idea of being visible or invisible to your target market is going to directly impact your ability to make things happen. And what I find kind of fun about this topic, to the extent that it can be fun, is that a lot of times in the movies or in television, invisibility is generally viewed as a big advantage. It's an asset, you know, Ooh, wouldn't it be cool if I'm Harry Potter and I've got my invisibility cloak, and I can do all sorts of things that are cool and fun. But in business invisibility is just deadly. Because, as you indicated, if the people who could benefit from what you're offering don't see you, don't hear you, don't know you're there, don't know you are alive, then you have absolutely zero possibility of selling to them. So in evaluating that question for yourself, are you invisible to your target market? It's probably a good idea to really think it through, and don't assume that you are more visible than you might actually be. Jay: Yeah, we know about assumptions, right? But I think this is also important because a lot of people will only focus on advertising that gets them leads or some type of returns. There's a whole nother level of advertising where it's just brand awareness. You're probably not going to generate clicks, but if you can be one of the options in their mind, you know, if you're a plumber and you're not necessarily getting a lead every time you send out a postcard or something, but when that toilet finally goes down, if you're one of the three that they think about, then you're so much closer. And so that's a part of advertising that I think a lot of people miss. David: Yeah, I completely agree. I think another problem that people run into sometimes with this is that they're trying to be everywhere at all times with everyone. And unless you have an unlimited budget, that just doesn't work. So you can get in front of a whole lot of people who have absolutely no capacity to buy from you. I've worked with businesses in the past that were running radio ads and they were business to business businesses. And they're running on music stations, and I'm like, okay, well, it's possible that there are some business owners or some people who could buy from you who are listening to that station, but the majority of people listening to that ad don't own businesses. They can't use what it is that you're selling.

When we're doing business-to-business or business-to-consumer outbound calls, the truth about call reluctance is that it can seem very real. Those fears can be founded. They might very well say no. Or they might be rude, obnoxious, belligerent. It's possible they say all kinds of things that you don't want to hear. So that's all true. That could happen. One of the things that helped me a lot though, is recognizing that we are not doing it for them. We are not doing this for the people who react like that. We are doing it for the people that we are ultimately going to help. And we can't get to the people that we are going to ultimately help without having to go through some of these people sometimes in between. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the topic, Is Call Reluctance Real? Jay: Listen, it's a pleasure to be here, David, and let me tell you, this is one of my biggest issues. I know it's real because I have a job where I spend a lot of time on the phone and man, there are days where I just do not want to do it. And what's funny is it's actually something that I enjoy, but it requires a certain level of energy. It requires that you are prepared and there is the occasional call that turns in a direction that I don't want to go. And so this is me to a T. I experience this on a regular weekly basis. David: Yeah, and the title is kind of provocative and I guess I sort of did that on purpose. Because anyone who has experienced this, that feeling of, "oh, I just don't feel like picking up the phone," is going to look at this and say, "well, yes, of course, it's real." And I think that when we just look at it as call reluctance, then it's easy to say, yes, it's real. What do we do about it? But the reason that I wanted to raise the topic is that I don't believe that call reluctance is actually the issue. if you boil it down, what does it mean? When I did this for myself and for other people who were struggling with it, it all really just boils down to fear, right? It's some type of fear. It's not that we're really afraid of picking up the phone. That's the easy part. It's not that we're afraid of dialing. The issue is what's going to happen next. It's about that unknown. And I think that's what people struggle with, without even realizing that that's what they're struggling with. Jay: Yeah. So I mean, for me, fear of rejection, fear of the no, and I mentioned fear of the negative experience. You know, the guy who's asking the questions that I can't answer or wants to spend two hours on the phone and I only have 20 minutes for him or those kinds of things. You're right, it's all born out of fear. David: And what's interesting, too, is that today, if you have to pick up the phone and call somebody and you don't have an appointment with that person, the likelihood that they're actually even going to answer, that you're going to get to a live human being is probably what? 30%? 20%, right? 10%. I mean, most of them are going to go to voicemail. And so voicemails are kind of easy as long as you know what you're going to say when you get a voicemail message. So a lot of it, I mean, at least 80% of it, it's like, well, there shouldn't be any fear here because they're probably not going to answer. Right? But as you indicated, it's the fear of rejection. In some cases, it's the fear of success. And some people are like, "I've never had fear of success. I love success." Well, we all love success, but sometimes getting to that success can be a little frightening. It can be a little bit of a struggle. And sometimes it's just, hesitation is born out of fears that just haven't even manifested yet. Jay: Yeah. They're not real. And, for me, it's asking the question, "what if?" And this is again, something that my parents taught me. I would tell them that I didn't want to do something or I was afraid of doing something and ...

When you're creating demand for your products and services to the point where they really want it, "listen, yes, I want to do this. I want to move forward with you." That is extremely powerful. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I discuss creating demand for your solution. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. Thank you so much. Once again, a great topic. If we could all do that, if we could all accomplish this simple goal, then none of us would have to worry. We'd have all the business that we would want, correct? David: It sure seems that way, doesn't it? I mean, when we are able to succeed in creating demand for our products and services, selling becomes so much easier. It's not quite unnecessary, but it gets darn close to it. When somebody just really wants what it is that you have to offer, everything gets easier. Jay: Yeah. I think may be a little bit counterintuitive, right? Where like, I need to find a demand that people have, and then I need to create solutions for that demand. And I think that's entirely appropriate, but it's not enough, right? It's maybe only half the battle. David: Right, because there's a certain amount of demand that can be found, but there is probably a lot more that can be mined with a little bit of effort. Now mining, that sort of implies that you've got to do some digging. You've got to do a little more work and just sort of saying, well, I found this, this, and this. These are the three things I'm going to talk about, and these are the three things I'm going to lead with. But when you recognize that there are things that we can say, there are things that we can do that will not just create demand for our products, particularly if we're selling commodity products. Because creating demand for our products isn't going to be helpful unless it's creating demand for the products that we're selling. Because if they can get it anywhere, I can create demand for something that they can then go buy from someone else. So part of this has to be the ability to create demand for not just the products and services you offer, but the way that you offer those things. All the little differences in the way that you do things, there needs to be demand that is created for that. And you're the only one who can do it because you're the only one who knows what those differences are. Jay: Yeah, I agree, and back to the idea that I'm going to create a business based upon a certain demand, can that demand actually support and sustain a business? You know, just because there's demand doesn't mean that you can survive off it, especially if you're only going to get a certain market share of that demand. So it better not be your only solution, right? And so I think with your website advertising, with everything that you do, you should be thinking, how do I convince people who may happen to my site or happen on my business? Wow, I didn't even think that I needed this person, but I really do. David: Yeah, and a lot of that goes to getting past the what, in terms of the product, and getting to the how. The way that you are better, the way that you are different, the reason that If they don't choose you over every other option available to them, they're shooting themselves in the foot. And that's what most people tend to miss in their messaging. They talk about products, they talk about speed of delivery, they talk about pricing, all the usual things. But so many of those things are common to everyone, that those can't be the things that you focus on. Because if you do, you're just creating more demand for the products and services, as opposed to creating demand for your method of providing those products and services. Jay: Yeah, you know, I think about our own business model. A lot of people call us and talk to us in the consultation. They're not even sure if they need help. So our first step is to convince them they absolutely do.

To hit the ground running in 2025, we can start by taking responsibility. Whenever we blame outside factors for things that go wrong, we immediately forget that there are things we can evaluate in ourselves to say, okay, well even if this is the case, even if this was just a terrible prospect, are there things that I could have done better and differently in this circumstance to create a better outcome? And almost inevitably, the answer is going to be yes. But in order for that to happen, we have to consider it. And we have to think, is this actually what I want to do? And if you do that, you're just going to feel better about yourself. You're going to feel better about your situation. Because you're allowing yourself some level of control in the situation rather than simply delegating the failure to outside factors and assume you're a victim and there's nothing you can do about it. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing how to hit the ground running in the new year. Happy New Year, and welcome back Jay! Jay: Thank you, David. It's such a pleasure to be here. I think everybody has a desire, you know, at the beginning of the year, to say this year's going to be different, you know, we're going to make all these changes. It's going to be fantastic. But do they really have a way to translate that into action? I picture myself hitting the ground, you know, it's like the cartoon when they start to run, you know, their feet are moving, but they're not moving quite yet. I think a lot of us are in that place. How do we get from spinning to actually moving forward? David: Yeah, it's a great question. I know in the promotional products industry, we have trade shows that start at the beginning of the new year, the ASI Show in Orlando, the PPAI Expo in Las Vegas. And, There's one in Fort Worth as well, an ASI show in Fort Worth. So we got three trade shows in the industry that are really designed to help people get up and running and get started. But as we look at today, you know, this first week of the new year, even aside from that, whether or not you're attending a trade show, chances are you're probably pretty reasonably fired up. Okay, here we go. It's another new year. What are we going to do? This is exciting. And if we think about the types of prospects that we want to interact with this year, the types of clients that we would like to attract, the types of customers that we might want to let go this year, and really focus on building our businesses as proactively as possible. Building our client lists as proactively as possible can really help to improve our quality of life in a dramatic way. Jay: Yeah. I love that. in the restaurant business, there's something called a theoretical food cost and an actual food cost. Theoretical is, what would things be like if you ran perfectly? If there was no waste, everything was perfect. And then actual is where you're at. And the goal is to constantly be trying to close that gap. And so to me, I think about it in any business, what does your ideal look like? Your ideal client base, your ideal staff, your ideal sales? So if you can know what that is and then track a course to get to it, I think that's a great way to feel progress. Because that's what I tend to miss when I'm running a business is sometimes it's just a daily grind. And I don't feel like I made any progress today. And if you do that over and over again, it's hard to continue to press forward. David: It really is. And I think a lot of that goes to the fact that very often we're just tied up in the day. Whatever it is that's going on in the day, we're just facing whatever is happening to us moment by moment, day by day. And that can get very frustrating. I remember, I think it was Tony Robbins was talking in a seminar one time about the idea that in order to create our future, we need to envision it first.

Today, we'll discuss a simple framework you can use this week for New Year Success Planning. Very often we say we're going to prioritize time with our family and our loved ones. And we do this every year, January 1st, going to spend more time with the people we care about, the people we love. And then by March, it's back to life as usual, right? So if we decide what we're going to prioritize, who we're going to prioritize, and again, the flip side, what am I going to deprioritize? Who am I no longer going to prioritize in terms of allocating time? Those things as well allow you to live a far more proactive life. And it allows you to really start living the kind of life that you want to engage in. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will discuss how to use this week for New Year Success Planning following a simple framework I call The Big A.P.E. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Well, I'm so glad to be here. David. I have to tell you, after Christmas my number one tendency is just to kind of want to detox, you know, because of all the shopping and everything else. But I know it's also, because there's not a lot going on business wise. It's probably a great time to kind of start thinking about the next year. David: Yeah, and I think detoxing is also a really good part of that. It's nice to be able to use this time, it's sort of the eye of the hurricane, a little break in the action before the new year starts and everything gets rolling again. It's just a great time to be able to do that, to be able to take a breath. Take a moment. Sort of think through how things went, what we liked, and what we didn't like about the past year and what we want to do better and differently in the coming year. And for me, I think it's just a great time for planning, for making notes, and really considering the things that we'd like to accomplish. Because, there's something magical about a new year where everybody wants to start fresh and turn the page. I mean, there's no reason you couldn't do that any day or every week. Reminds me of the expression, "today is the first day of the rest of your life." People hear that and they go, "yeah, that's right." And then we never do anything about it. But boy, January 1st rolls around and everybody wants to do things. We've got different resolutions, and I'm going to do this better. I'm going to do that better. Lots of people join gyms and they go for two weeks. Then that's the end of it, right? So there is this tendency to get really excited and really focused about a new year, and then perhaps let it fall away. So if we use this week to just really think through, okay, what do I really want? What am I trying to get out of my life, my business, you know, my relationships? What is it that I'm looking to accomplish? It's just a nice sort of quiet time to consider those sort of things. Jay: Yeah, and I think, you gave the example of the gyms. My wife goes to the gym all the time and she can't stand January and into February because she can't find an open machine to use, because everybody has set this new goal and it's going to last at most six weeks and then everybody returns. I think that that's kind of a microcosm of our goal setting for the new year and for resolution. So it has to be important too, as you're being mindful to be specific I think, but also to be reasonable with yourself, achievable, right? And trackable are all things that I think would probably be important in this process. David: Absolutely. There's another thing that I tend to think of, just in terms of planning and thinking things through. I refer to it as The Big Ape, A.P.E., the Big Ape. And it stands for activities, priorities, and expectations. So what are the activities that I want to engage in in the new year? What are the activities I no longer want to engage in in the new year? Right? And that's big.

I think the best holiday gift is to make the most of ourselves, when it comes to personal development, whether that means sales and marketing training, whether it means personal training, whether it means meditation, whatever it is for you, prayer, whatever it is that allows you to get to a place where you can really focus, really be present, and be your best for yourself, and those around you, is really important. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host, Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the best holiday gift you can give yourself and your family. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much, David, for the opportunity to be here. And I love this question. It's a little off track from some of the things that we normally talk about. But I think as we talk about running your own business and the amount of time that it takes, taking a little bit of time out to think about your family and how you can make their holidays special, I think it's a critical topic. David: Yeah. And of course, because of the nature of the things that we talk about, what I'm really thinking about when it comes to the best holiday gift you can give yourself and your family, I tend to look at it as "a better you," right? If you can provide yourself and your family with a better you, a smarter you, a more motivated you, a more inspired you, that is going to really make a huge difference in your business life, in your personal life, and the life of the people that you care about. And of course, this time of year a lot of people are focused on actual gift giving, which of course is a traditional thing as well. But when we think about what really is going to help ourselves, our family, our loved ones most, it's going to be, you know, a healthier, happier, safer, more productive you, generally. Jay: Yeah. I love this line of thinking because you could give them all the presents in the world, but if you're stressed out all the time, if you're angry, because of what's going on at work and those types of things, you can't buy their love or their gratitude with gifts. Maybe they're a little bit happy in the morning, but by the end of the day they still remember what kind of circumstances you've left them in. David: Yeah, I remember when the kids were really young and we'd have gifts in the morning and by afternoon , it was like everybody was kind of cranky because you kind of get what you wanted out of the day and have too many sweets and all that sort of thing. But again, I think if we think really more in terms of what we're going to be doing and how we're going to be living and interacting with each other. A great example of this about a week or so ago on social media, Charity Gibson, who is involved in the promotional products industry in a lot of ways, and is just really inspiring for a lot of people. She posted something on Facebook about what happens when, at some point, you're doing everything for everyone else and you're not doing anything for yourself. You're not taking care of yourself. And I think it's such a great point, because a lot of times people can fall into this trap of thinking, well, I don't want to be selfish. But there is a big difference between selfishness and what I refer to as rational self-interest. In other words, rational self-interest is what keeps us from stepping off the curb and into traffic, right? The desire to look both ways before we cross the street. That's rational self-interest. Nobody would really look at that and say, oh, you're being selfish. But I think a lot of times people tend to, for themselves mostly, think, well, I should be doing more. I could be doing more. They want to help everybody else. And if you don't put gas in your own tank first, you're not going to have any energy left for anyone else. Jay: Yeah, such a good point. In fact, I saw a study just yesterday and it was talking about the high levels of anxiety in our youth,

If you're just copying what everyone else is doing, and 80 percent of the market is doing that, you're just going to be seen as part of that group. So stop following the followers! If you want to differentiate, it starts with that. How am I communicating my strengths to an audience that actually needs the strengths that I'm able to deliver? David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the topic, Stop Following the Followers. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. Once again, a great topic for our discussion. This one is hard. Sometimes we are sheep and we're not following a leader, right? We're following everyone else who's following that leader. Why are we doing that? David: Yeah, great question. Why are we doing that? I know in the early stages of my business, I did that all the time. When you don't know what to do, you're basically looking around to see what other people are doing, and very often they don't know what they're doing either. I particularly remember in the early stages of my business where I would look at somebody who I saw as a competitor in my space, and I would say, okay, well, what are they doing? And sometimes I would do that pretty indiscriminately, not even realizing that they may have been in worse shape than we were at that point, and I'm looking at what they're doing. Now, fortunately, I've always been able to learn as much from bad example as I have from good. And to me, that's like a superpower. If you're able to do that, it is extremely helpful. If you look at something that someone else is doing and you say, you know what, I am not doing that. And you see something that you like and say, well, I am going to do that. That's extremely helpful. But very often we don't know who's doing extremely well and who's not doing as well. And we see something we like, and we may imitate it. We may try to copy it. But, it may not be working for that person, and it very well might not work for us either. Jay: Yeah, or I think understanding what is making them successful and what you're seeing them do, that doesn't mean that's what makes them successful. I mean, there are many people out there who are successful in spite of all of the mistakes they're making. And that really frustrates me, David, when I see that, because here I am busting my butt to try and do it right, and I see other people that are... it's like they'd have to work hard to mess things up. They just fall in a bucket of gold everywhere they go. Drives me crazy. It's like when I was in the radio business, we had a consultant who was paid incredible money and we're like, why does this guy know what he's doing? Well, he happened to work for somebody who achieved major syndication. Well, just because he worked for that guy doesn't mean that he's the reason that guy was successful. And that doesn't mean we should listen to everything that he says. David: Absolutely. I've got similar radio horror stories. I think we've all had experiences like that. We've also probably had experiences where we see someone, and our impression is that that person is successful, is smart, is doing things right, and is doing things well. And that's not always the case. Because we don't really know what's happening behind the scenes. In our work with clients, one of the reasons we have the brand we have, TopSecrets.com, is that there are things that people don't know that can help them. Whether you want to consider them secrets or whether you just want to consider them things that somebody's never learned, doesn't really matter. But it's a fact. And I've had conversations with people who say, "oh, there's no such thing as secrets in business." And I'm like, "I completely disagree with that." I completely disagree because while there are a lot of things that are common in business, and a lot of things that everybody knows. For every one of those,

I don't know if you've ever heard the expression, "no is a complete sentence." have you ever heard that one? It's interesting because it's very hard to just say no in business when someone asks you something. That was an old Nancy Reagan thing, right? "Just say no." Say no to drugs. Just say no. But when somebody asks you to do something, you just say "no." I think there was an episode of Seinfeld like that... David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I discuss the need to say no in business. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you so much, David. I think this is one of the hardest things to do in business because we feel like we can answer every question and that we should. And the reality is, that's not the case. David: Yeah, and it's such an easy trap to fall into because there are so many people that we feel like we need to say yes to, right? We've got business associates, we've got clients, we've got prospects, we've got family, we've got friends, everybody coming to us with things. And the agree type of person inside us wants to say yes to most things. We want to be agreeable. We want to do the best of our ability. But sometimes we can really get in over our heads when we don't at least start to say no to some of the things that are not going to allow us to get where we need to go. Jay: Yeah, and I agree. It's in your personal life. It's in your business life. If you have a sales cycle, it's which customers you choose to deal with. I mean, you can let your entire life be dominated. And I know people like this and I've looked at him and I said, how do you ever get something done? I mean, I love you because you want to help everybody and you're so serving to other people, but your family might be neglected. Your business might be neglected. There's got to be balance in the force, right? David: Yeah. And sometimes, during some stages of life, it's easier than other times to say no. But there are periods in there, man, where it's just like you feel like you have to do everything. You have to say yes to every opportunity. You have to at least explore it. You want to try to help everyone you can possibly help, which is a great thing, but we all have a limited, finite number of hours in a day. 24 hours is fixed. It's inflexible. We can't change that. And everything we say yes to means that we're saying no to something else, even if we're not physically saying no. We're not giving ourselves the ability to accomplish additional things, which creates sort of a huge opportunity cost if we're not careful. Jay: Yeah, and how many of us are careful? That word careful, right, David? What does that mean? Is it identifying the things that you have to get done? I think yes, the things you want to get done, the priorities? And I don't think we're saying no to everybody, right? It's understanding yourself and what's most important and saying, I'm actually going to say yes. to so many people, but after that, I'm booked. I can't. I've got to be with my family. I've got to be at work. I've got to be, with these other priorities. David: Yes, and I think for a lot of us, it's inside of work where we often have the most difficulty saying no. Because when you're dealing with family and friends, in a way, it's easier to say, well, I can't because I have to do this. I can't because I have to work, right? We're not saying no I'm not doing it. We're saying I can't. When in fact, we're either prioritizing incorrectly or prioritizing poorly or we're just making the decision that no, I'm going to do this instead And it's very difficult to do that to actually say no to someone as opposed to presenting the excuse instead of the actual no. Saying I can't as opposed to I am choosing to do this other thing. That's tough. Jay: Yeah, it is tough or find what I'll do is because I don't want to use the word no, I'll put it off till later. Like, I'll say, well,

Working harder won't cut it, and breaking the Effort to Outcome Myth starts with understanding that it's not going to be a 1 to 1 thing. You're not going to put in more effort and just immediately generate a corresponding amount of result. That's why it's necessary to look for points of leverage -- in the form of systems, technology, and delegation. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the Effort to Outcome Myth. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you so much, David. I've got this figured out. All I have to do is spend so much time on something and that guarantees me that I'm going to have the exact outcome that I want, right? David: Cool. This is going to be the shortest episode ever. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it kind of falls along the line of what people always say about "you get out out of life what you put into it." And I like the sound of the expression, but what I found personally in my life is that it's just not true. It's not accurate. It's never really a direct correlation. You never really get out of life exactly what you put in. You never get out of business exactly what you put in. You get out some sort of multiple, at least that's been my experience. Now, if your multiple is one to one, okay, then you're getting out what you're putting in. But I'm sure you've had the experience as well, where you put a whole lot of work in on something, and it didn't create the return that you wanted. You've had other things that maybe you didn't have to put a lot of work in on, but they happened to work out well and created great results. So I think sometimes when we make that connection in our mind saying, I have to push harder. I have to work more. I have to do more things in order to get what I need out of it. We may be missing some elements there. Jay: Yeah, I totally agree with you. As you know, I've studied a lot of these billionaire types. I think a lot of people do, and I was looking for some commonality. And I do see commonality in how they think about things, how they look at things, but I don't see commonality in scheduling and how hard they work. Some people like Bill Gates, his schedule, I mean, I get exhausted just reading it. But other people are like, no, I work smarter, not harder. And I work because I want time off. I want to enjoy my life. So I don't see a correlation between how much they work compared to what their results are. David: Yeah, definitely not a one to one correlation. Now, some of it also is common sense. If you think in terms of people engaging in busy work, as opposed to impactful actions, things that actually move the needle. There's an example of where you can start to create some leverage for yourself. If you look at your day to day actions. And you recognize that many of the things that we might be doing are not actually moving the needle for us, then it's easy to say, Okay, well, what can I eliminate? And what can I focus more attention on so that I can get the results that I'm looking for? Jay: Yeah, and I think it's really difficult. We talk about this a lot. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, right? Especially as a small business owner, the idea of working smarter sometimes is the hardest thing that you can do. Because you're putting out fires and those fires need to be dealt with. That's why they're called fires, right? So finding a way to do that but still move the needle forward can be a very difficult process. David: Yeah, and I think when we look at things in terms of applying a brute force solution to what could be a strategic or a planning problem, that's also where we kind of run into trouble. Thinking, okay, well, I have to do more. I have to push more. I have to push harder. And what that doesn't take into consideration is the law of diminishing returns, right? There are more hours that we're working, but that can often lead to burnout. It can lead to a lack of focus.

If you want to reduce or eliminate cold calls, you need to recognize that there are other, and very often more effective ways of doing this. More leveraged ways to be able to do this. More ways of being more focused, more specific... David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing how to reduce or eliminate cold calls. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey David, I'm so glad we're talking about this. I hate cold calls and who loves them? Right? I mean, if anybody comes on and says they love cold calls, wow. I mean, maybe if you do it enough and it's successful enough, I can see how you would love them, but I'm not to that point yet. David: I've always been skeptical of that too, Jay. I've always been skeptical of people who say, I love cold calls. But I know they exist. And I've had conversations with people like that, and they tell me why they love them and how great they are at them. And when I hear that, I'm like, congratulations, that's awesome. I'm extremely happy for you. I've never actually learned anything from them, though, that I could really share with other people that would get other people to change their minds. And so for that reason, I've never been one, at any of our trainings, to sort of teach cold calling. Now, have we done it over the years? Absolutely. But it's not something that I feel like, oh, okay, I'm going to put together a course on cold calling because I feel that strongly about it. I don't. I feel more strongly that there are other, better ways of getting recognized and getting noticed, and that's why nearly everything we do in our material is focused on allowing people to do that without necessarily making cold calls. And it's not even really just cold calls. There are certain things that some people hate. Cold calls, posting on social media, engaging in paid advertising, different people hate different things. Now, if you hate all of those things, if you're not going to do anything, then it's going to be more of a challenge to get clients. But generally speaking, you don't have to do everything and it's very likely there are things that you don't like to do, that you won't have to do if you take the time to think things through and come up with a strategy that works better for you. Jay: Yeah, and I think you made such a good point there. There may be somebody who loves cold calls, there may be somebody who's successful, but that's really like a character trait. That's like an individual skill set. So if you think Oh, because this person can do it, then that means I can have five people doing it. I don't know if that's reality, finding five people who love cold calls and are successful at it. And the other thing is that because there are so many other ways to contact people now, a cold call is very surprising to me. It's like, if you didn't send me an email first, that's very strange in today's world. It's changed. David: It really is. You touched on something and this is a bit of an aside from what we're talking about, but I think it's important, which is that there are some people who are wired to do things. There are some people whose personalities are geared toward doing things extremely well. There's a sales trainer that I've known over the years. I met him in a number of trade shows. He's kind of a bigger than life character. He's tall and he's really good looking, very well spoken, very smart, makes excellent presentations. And every time I've seen him, I thought, this guy is made for this. He is built for this. profession. But what I've also noticed is that not everybody's him, right? Not everybody's as tall, not everybody's as good looking, right? Not everybody is, and the list goes on. So I think for the rest of us, for those of us who just need to be able to generate clients, qualify them quickly, get them sold into our process, and keep things moving in our businesses,

Dealing with qualified prospects only is the best. Try to get rid of some people as early on in the process as you possibly can. If you found out that you invested some time with them and you later discover, okay, this person is no longer qualified. Cut the cord, move on. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing Qualified Prospects Only. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you, David. Wow, this is the dream, right? This is the dream. If you could spend all your time only dealing with people who want your services, need your services, and then, wow, that's what we're searching for every day. David: That's it, man. We are living the dream. And I think for a lot of people, the reason they don't live the dream is because they don't make it a priority. They don't build it in to their processes. They don't say to themselves, when I am in touch with a prospect today, this needs to be one of the very first things that I do. Is to get them qualified in or out as quickly as possible so I can move forward and not waste another nanosecond of my life energy on an unqualified prospect. It's doable, if you prioritize it as one of the first things that you want to have happen in a conversation with any new prospect. Jay: Yeah, and I do want to point out there's qualifying your leads and making sure that new leads fit in, but then there's what we're talking about. Okay, you've got somebody new, you're talking to them. In that process, you don't want to spend more time with them than you have to if they're just not going to fit what you have to offer. Now, I can usually do this in about five minutes, with somebody on the phone, and it's because I've learned what to ask. So, normally I'm like, I really don't think we're going to be able to serve your needs. And then I get to move on to the next call. And I think you're sending a message to them and they may circle back to you eventually, because you were upfront with them. David: Yeah, and we want to be upfront with people about that. Because we don't want to waste their time any more than we want to waste our own time. One of the things that I've said to people so many times in so many conversations is, "Look, I respect your time as I respect my own, which is to say a lot." And it is so true. And the older I get, the more true it becomes. Although it's been true for decades now, right? I've always looked at it as, I think I heard this from Brian Tracy originally, in one of his recordings, he said if you run out of money, you can always make more, but if you run out of time, all the money in the world won't help you. And I thought that is brilliant, because it is so true. When we invest time with unqualified prospects, when we spend too much time chasing down people who don't have the need, the desire, the money, the budget, the willingness to spend. It means we are not in front of people who have all of those things. And I did learn this lesson fairly early in my business, but I didn't immediately implement it. It took me probably another several years before I finally got all the processes and all the procedures in place to try to strain those out, before I ended up in conversations with them. And so often in my conversations with our clients, I'll be talking to them about their procedure for bringing new clients through the door, like clockwork, because in my mind, everybody has to have that. If you don't have a procedure, in your business, for bringing new customers in like clockwork, then you're going to be struggling. You're going to be missing out. And during some of those conversations, I've had people say, "well, yeah, I've been trying to get an appointment with this person for months." And sometimes I'll say, well, does this person even deserve an appointment? Have you qualified them? Have you asked a couple of qualifying questions to find out if they have any of the things, the need,

Each time we're handling objections in sales, we should get better at it. Every sales call you have, every objection you ever receive, if you're able to document the primary questions and objections and concerns that you get, and you can properly document your best responses to that -- the ones that have gotten you the best results -- now you build up an arsenal of material that allows you to stage those responses up front, make them part of the presentation, part of the reason to buy from you rather than your competitor. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will discuss why salespeople struggle handling objections in sales. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you, David. Another great discussion. I feel like we get into just kind of the same old responses, or we feel like at the first rejection, "Oh, that's a no. So I move on to the next person." David: Yeah, I give up when in fact, most objections indicate interest. And sometimes salespeople forget this. A lot of them know it and they forget it, but some don't even realize it. They think, okay, if they object, they don't like it. They don't want it. They reject me. They hate me. All these types of things. Most of which are not true. And maybe none of them are true. But when somebody objects or raises some sort of objection to what you say, it means, "okay, you have me interested enough to ask the question. Otherwise I would say, no, not interested at all. Thanks." So that's one important aspect of it, is that if you struggle handling objections in sales, part of it might just be your mindset. If you believe that an objection means non-interest, then you kind of shoot yourself in the foot to start out with. Jay: Yeah, such a great point. I think you have to convert your thinking a little bit and look at rejection or questions as an opportunity. This is kind of side thing, but you know, in the restaurant business where I started out, people were always afraid of customer complaints. And I always felt like these are an opportunity. They create an opportunity to build loyalty because none of us expect anybody to be perfect. Well, some people do, and some people you can't please, right? But they do expect you to resolve it. And so, I always felt like if I can really resolve this situation well, I build loyalty. Because they know that if they come here, they will be treated well. And I think rejections are the same depending on how you handle them. David: Yeah, no question. And what you talk about, rejections, especially if it's after they've received the service, right? If you come to a restaurant and you had a bad experience, that's an after the fact, then it's remedial. You have to fix that. In a sales situation, they haven't tried the food yet, right? So this is up front, this would be like, well, why should I even come into your restaurant in the first place? And that's where you've got to be able to have your messaging dialed in to the point where it makes such perfect sense for them to choose the right option, as far as you're concerned. To come into the restaurant or to take advantage of whatever it is that you offer, that they will give you a shot. So when people struggle handling objections in sales, in some cases, it's that they haven't documented the objections they've gotten in the past. And if you don't come up with answers, to the things that come up again, and again, and again, that is really a bad sign. I've seen this recently on TV. I try never to talk politics on this podcast, but sometimes people ask the same question over and over and they never come up with a good answer to it. Jay: Yeah. David: And that doesn't make sense. What you need to be able to do when you sell yourself, when you sell your business, when you sell an idea, is you need to be able to identify what are the most common questions I get? What are the most common complaints or objections that I get ab...

If you're in a situation where you know you need to get more leads -- you need to generate more and better leads -- there are very specific ways of doing it. One of the things that we do with our clients is we focus on, what are the different methods of lead generation that they're currently using? What are some of the methods they could be using, if they're not already using those. And then testing those out as quickly as possible to find out what actually works and what doesn't. Some people spend months or years trying to perfect something that isn't working. And simply by switching to another method, you can get incredibly better results in a much shorter period of time. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing how to get more leads. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, it's so good to be here, David. What an amazing topic. I mean, it's got to be the question on everybody's mind, how to get more leads. David: Yeah. And I think a lot of people look at it and they think, well, they know leads are the lifeblood of our businesses. Now, if we're not constantly getting new leads in the door, then your pipeline dries up, everything gets bad. It's not an ideal scenario. Obviously, it's a very important consideration. There are lots of ways to get more leads and there's no shortage online of people who will try to sell you different methods of doing that. And, this is why I value your opinion on this as well, because I know that you do quite a bit of lead generation in your own business, and lots of people pushing lots of different things. I'd like to get a feel from you, if you don't mind, to start out. sort of the types of things that people have told you are going to help get you leads and which ones seem to work better and which ones didn't seem to work as well. Jay: Yeah, you're exactly right. This is something that we rely on heavily. Our entire business model is getting people to sign up for our free consultations. And so, how do you do that? How do you make sure that they're the best leads? We started out relying heavily on Google Ads, pay per click. But even that, can be so tricky. I don't want to spend my time talking to a lot of people who really don't need my services. So, not just leads, but qualifying leads. We're going to talk about that in an upcoming podcast. But, I'll tell you, David, we don't want to pay for every lead. So our question has been, how do we get leads that we don't have to pay for, right? And then also, how do we make sure that we have the best close rate on leads? But, we get email marketing, we get people contacting us every day saying, we can do this for you and we can do that for you. And you want to try some of those, but at the same time, I'm like, oh, we have a system that works. And so I have a hard time breaking away from that and spending a lot of time on those other things because you really don't know what's going to work until you try it. David: Yeah. We've probably had a bit of this discussion in the past as well. The idea that when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. So there are people who like generating leads on Instagram. And so they'll put out information on here's how to get leads on Instagram, or here's how to get leads through Facebook groups, or here's how to get leads on LinkedIn, or through LinkedIn direct messaging. And so everybody's got their own little tiny slice that they're looking at to say, this is it. This is exactly the way to get leads. And in my experience, not only in our own businesses, but also working with other people's businesses, what I found is that it's very easy for people to get sold on the idea of like one particular, tiny niche solution that is going to be the solution to all of your lead problems. And I mean, I spend a lot of money on my own training, my own education, exploring, what's available, what works, what doesn't work.

When I say "get over being scared of selling," that doesn't mean that you have to engage in methods of contact that you're really, truly uncomfortable with, right? That means finding a path, finding a path that works for you, finding a path that works for your people. Finding a path that works for your prospects and clients, right? And there's always a path. There is always a path to get there. David: Hi and welcome back. Are you scared of selling? If so, get over it. Today, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing that very topic. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, it's a great Halloween topic, right? Being scared. My kids are watching scary movies all of this month and I participate in a scary movie all day long when I have to pick up the phone and I have to talk to people who I don't know and convince them why my services are what they need. Please write me a check. That is a scary prospect when you think about it. David: Yeah, entrepreneurs basically are facing Halloween every day. In a lot of cases, a lot of ways, whether it's making phone calls or making payroll or making decisions, making rules, it's always about making something. And the whole idea of being scared of selling, I hear this from so many people that I thought we needed to address it. And when I say get over it, that sounds very insensitive, and perhaps it is, but it's also very necessary. Jay: Yeah, I mean, it's the reality. If you're in a business model where you have to sell, then you have to get over it. It's just that simple, and if you don't, then you're going to constantly be struggling. And it's not something that you're going to do from day one, but it is something that you have to be determined to do. David: Yes. And when I say this, I don't mean to put anybody down, right? There are a lot of really good people who have really good reasons for being scared of selling. Certainly in their minds, they've got really good reasons for it. And I'm not taking any of that away. It's a fact. The fact that there's a term called "call reluctance" indicates that there is a level of fear based here to the point where they had to create a term for it. So, what I find is helpful -- particularly if I'm interacting with salespeople who are running into this situation -- and a lot of times they won't even say they're scared of selling, but ultimately that's what comes out. One of the things that we have to look at first is why are they scared? Why are they scared of selling? Is it fear of success? Is it fear of failure? And a lot of times we hear blanket terms like that and they're like, "Oh no, it's not that." But sometimes it is. Sometimes it's variations of that. I'm afraid that if I call and they say no, it's going to hurt my self esteem. That's fear of failure. I'm afraid if I do too well, people are going to resent me and think ill of me, right? Some people think that way. So any of those preconceived notions that we have about what our sales success will do to us, for good or for bad, are going to impact our actions. And that's why I say we need to get over those things, right? We have to get past those things and once again, deal with reality. I've been on a sort of truth quest lately in terms of let's not look at what we think about. Let's not look at what we fear. Let's look at what's true. Let's look at what's real in the market right now. If there is somebody in the market right now who is afraid to interact with prospects or clients, it's going to impact their performance because it's going to impact what they actually do. If you're scared to pick up the phone, you won't pick up the phone. If you're scared to send an email, you won't send the email. Or if you do, it'll take a lot longer than it should. And then that's four other emails that you wouldn't have sent in the meantime. So we have to get over it. And a lot of it starts with the why. Jay: Yeah, the why is important.

Change is coming... because change is always coming. And we need to try to stay ahead of it. And we're not always going to be able to do that. But we do have the ability to anticipate things that could potentially happen in the not too distant future and say, okay, if this happens, then what am I going to do? How am I going to adapt to that? David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the topic, Change is Coming. Don't Make it Harder. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: It's good to be here, David. Change is hard. Change is not easy in life, in business. We like comfort zones. We like to get in a groove. And I am the first to admit it. If I could find a way to not have to change in business and just cruise, I'm not opposed to just cruising. David: Yeah, well, status quo can certainly be comfortable until it's not, right? It's very comfortable until it's not. And when I say change is coming, I mean, so much of what we've been hearing lately is about all the potential changes that could be coming. And regardless, and I'm not going to get into politics ever at all on this podcast, but regardless of the outcome, there is going to be change coming, because it always does. It's the nature of life. It's the nature of business. Change is always coming. And so, When we try to fight it, when we try to avoid it, we make things harder on ourselves, right? The change is going to come. Now, we're going to have to change our approach very likely. We're going to have to do things differently. We're going to have to plan differently. There are all types of things that we are actually going to have to do. But if we focus on that, rather than the indignity of the fact that change is coming, we make it a lot easier on ourselves. Jay: Yeah, you're exactly right. I think about a change that we all had to go through, and that's the pandemic. And how that was all a change that we wondered if we were going to survive. It was going to destroy our businesses, our workplaces, our way of life, everything. You think about, we're home office now. And we're going to stay that way. And if you had asked me before the pandemic, I would have said, no, that wouldn't work. I look at my friends in the restaurant industry who pivoted to drive through only, and when the time came back to open up their dining rooms, they didn't want to do it. They really liked the drive thru model or the delivery model so sometimes being forced to change and being ready to change. You're going to discover, things that you would have ruled out otherwise, and you're going to be better for it, ideally. David: No question. That exact example, there's a restaurant that we go to in our area a lot, and when the pandemic came and you were no longer able to go into the restaurants, they started a pickup service. And it had never occurred to us to pick up from that restaurant before. We always went in, sat down, enjoyed the meal, and that was it. But after a while, you're like, well, I could really use some of that food. We don't feel like cooking. Okay, I'm going to give it a try. I'll go pick it up. And all of a sudden, that door was open for us as well. And so after you were able to go back into the restaurant, there were still a lot of times, and there are times now where we'll still pick things up and bring it home because now we know that it's possible. So what it gave them is a new revenue stream, right? At the time they had a new revenue stream, but they didn't have their primary revenue stream. So they were hurting. But then after things opened up again, they got the regular business back and now they have this takeout service that people are using more and more, it actually allows things to grow. So it's a perfect example why our topic is so appropriate. Change is coming. Change is inevitable. It's happening all the time. And the more we resist reality, the more problems we have. Jay: Yeah,

When I say your competition isn't that good, what I mean is that a lot of them are not taking the time to learn the things that will allow them to perform better. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I say, your competition isn't that good. Right, Jay? Jay: Yeah, absolutely. Do you even know who your competition is? Do you know what they offer? Do you know what people think of them compared to you? Maybe you don't even know if your competition is that good. David: Exactly. And I hear, so many times, when I'm talking to salespeople, the idea that, there's a lot of competition. Competition is very difficult. There's a lot of online competition. There's a lot of local competition. There's a lot of price-cutting competition. There are all these different variations on competition. And that's all true. But a lot of them really, honestly, just aren't that good. And if you recognize right up front that most businesses are average, right? There's an average in every business, in every industry, there's an average. And some people are better than average. Some people are worse than average. There are a lot of average. So if you're competing with the average or the less than average, then you should be able to do pretty well. If you're a conscientious individual, if you're reasonably good at what you do, if you study and practice your profession and you get reasonably good at it, you'll be able to outperform a lot of them because to the extent that there are really exceptional competitors in your market, there are a lot less of those than there are the ones on the other side. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. I've always believed this, you know, you can get caught up in the muck. When I was in radio, I worked for a radio station that had a built in listenership because it was so ingrained in the community. And what that did is it made it so they didn't have to work hard to get sales or to get numbers. Now you would think, oh man, that's an amazing place to be. But what happened is, they started to get complacent, right? Everything was so easy, and then all of a sudden ratings started to shift and suddenly they realized, we don't know how to sell. Because we're so used to sitting at a desk and the phone is ringing. And we're just taking orders. So you're not a salesperson, you're taking orders, right? And their competitors started to eat them alive because their competitors had to sell all the time, and they were very good at it. So sometimes you're successful just in spite of yourself. And that may be what your competitors are in, what state they're in. David: It really could be as simple as that and as difficult as that, in either situation. But, you know, the idea that the competition is excellent, or the competition is terrible, or the competition is average. In a sense, none of it really matters. Because this is life. This is the world that we're in. These are the cards we've been dealt, right? So our competition is there. We're there. The question is, how are we going to make sure that we are outperforming our competition in all the key areas of customer contact? I mean, if you were to boil it down and say, okay, let's say my competition is very good. Let's say you completely disagree with the premise of this podcast, that your competition isn't that good, or that it's average or whatever you say. "No, I've got a lot of competition." Okay, then that's your question. How do you outperform your competition in all key areas of customer contact? Some people may say, "well, I don't know. What are the key areas of customer contact?" And if you're asking yourself that kind of question, that indicates that there's work to be done in your organization. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. And do you even know how the competition functions to be able to compare yourself? I mean, that's got to be at least half the battle, right? David: Yeah, that's part of the battle.

If you're at a point right now where you know you need to be selling more, but for whatever reason you're not -- and you could feel like it's the economy, you could feel like it's the competition, it doesn't really matter what it is -- If it's either of those things or if it's something else, there are ways around it. There are specific things you can do that will help you to get through to the people that you need to reach, and drive them to either a yes or no, thumbs up or thumbs down decision. Sometimes the answer is going to be no. But sometimes it's going to be yes. If you're not even giving them the option to give you a thumbs up or thumbs down, there's no way you win. David: Hi, and welcome back. Today, Jay McFarland and I will be discussing Don't Wait for the Economy to Improve. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, Dave. As always, it's a real pleasure. You know, I've been thinking a lot about the economy, and it's really kind of unique because there are parts of this economy that are really struggling and there are parts that are really booming. So depending upon where you're at in that spectrum, you could be getting hit really hard or you could just be celebrating, right? In our case, we're definitely feeling the effects of inflation. I can feel it in our client's willingness to make purchases. Cause things are a little bit tighter than they normally are. David: Yeah, it's interesting. Like you said, some people are really struggling right now. Some people are having their best months ever. It really kind of depends. But when we talk about the idea of not waiting for the economy to improve, I think there are a lot of good reasons for that. The first reason I would say is that your smart competition will not, they're not going to wait, they're going to be out there, they're going to be in front of people. And if you're not in front of people, then that just means you have absolutely no opportunity to get the business. So I've heard a number of people talking about the problems with the economy. And I've heard a number of people talking about the fact that they're waiting for things to improve. And I saw that comment online the other day, and I thought, we need to talk about this because essentially we have to be selling all the time, right? I mean, most businesses can't afford to wait around until things get better. Reminds me of that old Zig Ziglar line where you don't wait until all the lights turn green before you head into town, right? It just doesn't work. Jay: Right. Right, right. It's a great point. And I also think that part of any of your business strategy, you have to be prepared for the ups and downs. Good businesses know how to pivot, they know when to pivot. So if you're a new business, this is going to be hard for you, but it's one of the reasons why you want to always be tracking, right? Always be watching because there's seasonality, there's economies of the country, of your local economies, all kinds of things that can impact your business model. David: Yeah. And the truth of the matter is that we only ever have right now. We can't sell in the past. We might be able to sell in the future, right? Nobody knows their future. But yeah, we can plan to sell in the future, but we can't sell in the future right now. All we can do is sell now. We can make plans, but sometimes they happen, sometimes they don't. Right now is the only thing we've got. So it's always the best time to sell. Right now is always the very best time that we have to sell, because we really have no alternative in the moment. Well, I guess the alternative is wait. But when you're waiting, you're not selling, and other people are. Jay: Yeah, and I'll tell you, I'm not in a business model where I can just stop selling. I mean, that's not an option, right? So, we're in the process of talking about our pricing structure, talking about the different products we offer.

We get results from social media when we're able to identify the result that we're looking to get, and identify the messaging that we need to create to be able to get in front of these ideal prospects to have them raise their hands and express interest. When we do those things correctly, then you can get to the point where nearly everybody you talk to is actually qualified to do business with you. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing getting results from social media. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. This is a big topic. Talk about opening a can of worms. It's something everybody wants, and we talked, last podcast about learning online and what great resources there are. This is a place where there may be such an overload of information and different ideas that I don't know if you're going to find the answer online. I really don't. David: You'll find a lot of answers online. Yeah., Right? Whether or not it's the answer you're looking for, whether or not it's the answer that solves your problem, that is the big question mark. But I feel like this topic is so important because everyone's on social media. Everyone's trying to figure out what to do and how to do it. And the reason that I believe the word results is so important is that it narrows your focus. It forces you to think in terms of, okay, what is the result I even want to get here? What am I trying to do? Because as we talked about in a previous podcast, you can go on social media and it's nothing but distraction after distraction. And if you just turn it on and go in there without a really strong focus in terms of what you want to accomplish, what result you want to get, you're not getting any sort of result, except you're going to get pulled into other people's experiences. So from my standpoint, the first thing we need to do is to identify what is the result that I would like to get from social media? And then you can look at how much time that I spend on there is actually allocated to getting that result. That'll tell you a lot right off the bat. Jay: Yeah, and I think that there is a misguided focus that you need a large audience, right? Like if I can get up to 10, 000 followers or whatever, that's not true. it could be better to have a thousand dedicated followers who are potential clients than having a hundred thousand people who may just clog up your pipeline and who really never are going to be your clients. David: Right. And if they're not responding to what you do, if they're not liking, if they're not replying, then the algorithm says people aren't interested in this. So you're exactly right. If you just had the hundred people or so who are going to click today's link on there. You'd be seeing everybody, everyone would be seeing your stuff. But of course it's impossible to do that. So you're exactly right. It's about saying, all right, well, how can I get to more of the right kind of people who resonate with the material that I'm putting out? And I am not speaking as an authority on social media. Okay. I want to be really clear about this. I'm not coming to you and saying, oh yes, I'm the guy for social media. No, not saying that. However, what we have been able to do is to identify specific things that our clients have wanted to accomplish, and we're very good at helping them accomplish it, once we decide exactly what those results are. Jay: Yeah, I'll tell you where we're at right now in our company. As you know, we offer Tax Services to a very specific group, so, I've told you in the past, we have spent two years identifying keywords for paid ads, and it's been a constant process where we're refining, I do the consultations, And so when I see that we're getting consultations that are not in the strike zone, I go back to our keyword, you know, the person doing our Google ads, and we refine, and we refine, and refine. And I've told you,

David: When we talk about learning from failure, it doesn't just have to be our failures. We can learn from the failures of others. Jay: Oh yeah. David: We can learn from the failures of our friends, our family, our parents, our children. We can learn from any type of failure that we meet along the way. And when we do that, when we learn from other people's failures, we are saving ourselves a lot more aggravation. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing learning from failure. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. Once again, it's a pleasure to be here. This one, again, another important topic. I think we have a tendency, when we have failure, to not want to try that again, as opposed to saying I don't know who said it, but fail forward. Right? So like it or not, we're a result of our failures, and we're probably going to fail more than we win. So defining what we do in failure, I think, is very important. David: Yeah, I think this particular topic for myself, I know, has been absolutely critical in every aspect of my development from the time I was a child. When I was in grade school and I wasn't always the most motivated student because I wasn't interested in some of the topics, I would not do well in certain areas. And that wasn't great. I mean, what I should have learned from that is do a better job of it, anyway, I didn't learn that at the time. And maybe that's why I'm an entrepreneur today, because I think a lot of entrepreneurs start out the same way. It's like you're on a path. There are specific things that just really interest you that you can focus on diligently. And there are other things that you can't. But also just an example, I know throughout my own life, you're going to be able to learn something from everyone you meet, whether it's positive or negative. So you might as well take advantage of that. And if you recognize that you can pick up on these things fairly early on in most relationships and decide to learn from them, everything gets a whole lot easier. Jay: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with you. Once again, I think all the podcasts we've been doing recently self awareness. So important. Personal inventories, so important. Do you even recognize the failure? Are you deliberate about what your response is going to be? And if so, I think you can turn it around and make it a positive. If not, I think it's just by nature going to become a negative. David: Yeah, and whenever we're going through something in business that we would categorize as a failure, and that varies widely in business, as you know, to a complete business failure, I mean, that's something you'll learn from for a really long time, when that happens. It can be small things, it can be large things, but if we look at each of those things as an experience, there is very likely a lot that we can learn from that. What was it that caused this problem to begin with? I know in business for myself, most likely cause of issues and ultimate failure has always been, In some way related to communication. We weren't communicating properly with the other people, or they weren't communicating properly with us, or they weren't communicating honestly with us, or however it worked out. But a lot of it, for me, boils down to communication failures. And when you're aware of the areas where these failures likely happen, you can then pay closer attention going forward so that you don't repeat those types of things. Jay: Yeah, I grew up kind of in the retail industry and, when a failure happens, you have managers who want to just find the closest person and, yell at them and blame them. But then you have others and I've learned that usually it's not like you said, a person problem. It's a systems problem. So is it your communication that's bad? What is it? And if you can fix it, is it your training? You didn't train, you know, whatever it is,

Your internal monologue is critical. The worst thing we can do is delegating our internal monologue to someone else. Let alone someone we might not know, like, or trust. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing your internal monologue. What's going on in there, Jay? Jay: Hey, David. I'm not sure what's rattling around up here, but I think this is an important topic. I think that often we are a result of what we allow to rattle around in our brains. And if we're not aware of it, if we're not conscious of it, then that can kind of define who we are and what we do each day. David: Yeah, it really does. And I've read a lot about this topic over the years. I've listened to a lot of podcasts on the topic. Of course, we all live this on a day to day basis. I remember reading in one of Michael Singer's books, he wrote a book called The Untethered Soul and he was talking about your internal roommate and how basically you've got all these thoughts going on in your head and half the time you don't know where they're coming from and what they're saying to you. And a lot of times we tend to interpret what's going on in our heads as us. We think that's us dictating that stuff. And he says, no, it's basically, our brain generating thoughts, but it's not really. necessarily us. So when something goes through our minds and we're like, what on earth made me think that? It's just your brain. Don't take it personally. Jay: Yeah, it is random, right? I mean, your mind's gonna just be all over the place. And until you kind of do an inventory of what you're thinking, And I don't know that we're necessarily talking about affirmations. I think that some people are like, look in the mirror and say these things to yourself. I don't know if we need to go that far, but certainly be aware of what you're thinking and take control of it. Because you are what you think. David: Yeah, and taking control of it starts with just being aware of it. Recognizing the different things that go flashing through your brain on any given day and how that then impacts our actions. Because in business, if we're not aware of that, if we just sort of go along, thinking we're on autopilot and just doing things as they come up and not paying attention to what's going on in there, we can find ourselves either distracted, or maybe doing the wrong things, or taking the wrong actions, or responding inappropriately. Lots of different things can go wrong if we're not aware of what's going on in our own brains. Jay: Yeah, for me it's a matter of demotivating myself. My brain is very good at identifying the reasons not to do something. I don't know why that is, But I think that I'm not alone, right? So, I have something that I want to do today or that I've scheduled today, and my mind will just tick off the reasons why I can't do it, why I shouldn't do it, why I should be doing something else, why I should be doom scrolling on TikTok instead. And I don't know why that is, but I feel like my brain always defaults to the here's why you shouldn't do it mode. David: Yeah, and it's good you're recognizing that. I remember I was listening to a podcast, the Life Coach School podcast with Brooke Castillo, and she was talking about the fact that our brain generates sentence fragments. So it might just be a few words that go by in your brain and you internalize it. It might be that you're looking at a project and you know that you need to be working on it. And you might get a sentence fragment like, "I don't feel like it," or "I don't feel like doing that." And if you have the kind of job where you can determine what you do and what you don't do, that can significantly impact your actions. But when you recognize these little sentence fragments going through your brain and you identify it, you can then choose how to sort of reprogram. So if you catch yourself saying,

For me, in identifying and attracting ideal clients, I need people who have the motivation, who have the desire, who have the discipline, and just the willingness to move forward. People who are decisive enough to be able to say, "yes, I want to do this. Let's move forward on it." Because the people who just take forever to make up their minds and who don't respond to calls and all that type of thing? Been there, done that. No longer my ideal situation, or even close. David: Hi and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be dealing with the topic of attracting ideal clients. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey David, thank you so much. Another great discussion here. If we could all only deal with ideal clients. I think that would be ideal. See what I did there? David: I think so too. I love the idea of ideal clients. I love the concept of it. And in nearly everything that I do with our clients, I try to keep that the focus. It's not about bringing anyone in who can fog a mirror. It's not about bringing anyone in with a pulse. It's about saying, okay, how do I put together a situation, an environment in which all the very best prospects for my products and services know who I am and know what I do so that they can make a thumbs up or thumbs down decision about whether or not they want to work with me. And along the way, can I identify whether this person is my ideal client or something very close to it? Jay: Yeah. And part of that process is learning to exclude, right? Not include, but learning to exclude. I think sometimes we, especially when we're first starting out, we think I want to cast the widest net possible. And you know, I've learned just the opposite. I want to be as finite as I can be in who I'm trying to attract. David: Exactly, because it determines everything. It determines what you're going to say to people, how aggressively you're going to pursue them, how hard you're going to work for them, when and if they decide to do business with you and you decide to do business with them. I think sometimes, in these podcasts, we say things like this, and it probably alienates a segment of the market who feels like, "Oh, no, you have to really do more things for customers, and the customer's always right," and all that type of thing. And I'm not saying that that type of thinking is wrong. I'm just saying that that type of thinking creates a different result. And if your goal is to attract clients, any clients, then yeah, that can work. But if your goal is to attract ideal clients, the right clients, people who fit with the way that you do business, people who are going to respect you, respect your time, be willing to honor their investments, be willing to reply back to you when you need a response, then. The rules become different. Jay: Yeah. I've stepped away a long time ago from the customer is always right. I think that in certain industries, like maybe retail, that's more applicable. But so often, I'm like, I can't help you or , this has come to a point where neither of us are being satisfied, so we need to kind of cut ties. Like you talked about in the last podcast, being direct and learning how to identify when you should be direct, you're going to help them and you're going to help yourself. David: Absolutely. And if you want to do this, if you want to attract the type of clients that resonate best with you and that you resonate with and that are going to result in long term great experiences, the first thing we have to do in that situation is to clearly identify or define what an ideal client means to us. And I know for me, their ability and willingness to communicate is really high. And that's one of the things that we also talked about in a recent podcast. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that this is one of those things that warrants more of your time than so many other things that you think may be important.

When we think about prospects who can't or won't say no, and we think about people who tend not to respond to us, prospects who don't reply back after they've gotten all the information, it's basically two pieces of the same puzzle. When we run into these situations, our goal needs to be driving them to the no, if we can't drive them to the yes. Because the maybes, as we know, the maybes will kill us all the time. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing prospects who can't or won't say no. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. Great to be with you again. You know, there's so much to cover about how to deal with prospects. You really have to be thinking in depth about, who are these clients who can't or won't say no? Do you even recognize that? Because that's going to affect how you spend your time. Will you be working with them? Are they worth the time? Things like that. David: Yeah. And it ties back exactly to our last podcast where we were talking about prospects who don't respond to you. We're actually talking about clients who don't respond to you. And then we got carried away with clients. We said, okay, we'll talk about prospects in the next episode. And this really ties together nicely because in many cases, the people who can't or won't say no to us are the very same people who end up going radio silent and just ghosting us. When we're trying to get a sale closed. Jay: Yeah, and I think it's, again, we need to track and keep records. We need to be able to know, like, I have a system where I get a reminder. Hey you know, it's my CRM. The last time I spoke with a potential client, I made a note. Remind me about this client in five days, if you're running through a lot of potential prospects, you're not going to remember your last conversation. You're not going to remember, are they one of these clients that we're talking about? So tracking and, searching for this particular concept, are they saying no? Can they say no? A very important part of the process. David: Yeah, and that's where I think the notes that we keep for ourselves inside our CRMs or wherever we document that stuff are so important, because if we're just saying follow up, follow up, follow up in our notes, that tells us nothing. So a lot of times it's really good in our next set of notes to say, spoke with Joe yesterday, he indicated he'd have a decision by such and such a date, so that when you contact him on that day, you say, hey, listen, when we last spoke, you said you have a decision today at 1230. What are you thinking? Right. And you can move forward from there. But when we talk about people who can't or won't say no, I think this is where I've had several epiphanies along the way, because I think in sales, our desire is always to get them to say yes. But, in reality, sometimes we are better off getting them to say no. Because these non decisions are just killers. And sometimes people, they just can't bring themselves to say they don't want to do it. Whether it's fear of missing out, or they don't want to hurt our feelings. I don't know what it is, but I know that whenever I run into it, I find it extremely frustrating, because I'm a pretty direct communicator. If you and I are having a conversation, I will tell you exactly what I think. I mean, I won't be rude about it. I won't be obnoxious, in most cases, right? But I'll be very direct because I feel like I owe that to every person I talk to. If we're talking about working together, I want to make sure that people are extremely clear on what we'll be able to do and what we won't be able to do. And we can't do anything until we get to that agreement. I mean, I say this all the time, whenever two parties to an agreement want to put something together, they'll figure out a way to do it. If one of them doesn't, they won't. And very often the one who doesn't is the prospect.

When dealing with unresponsive clients and prospects, we have to make sure that we're doing everything on our end to be as responsive as possible. If somebody takes a week to get back to me, that doesn't mean I'm going to take a week to get back to them. Because if I start to fall into the trap that they've laid out, then that's not good for anybody. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing unresponsive clients and prospects. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. Once again, great topic here. I think all of us are guilty -- anyone who's involved in sales -- of thinking, this client is going to turn into something, but really, if we looked at it, should we be spending time on somebody else instead of trying to push people through who are not ready or not able to do so. David: Yeah. And I think, as you said, everyone in sales deals with this, and that's when you're dealing with prospects, right? That's when you're dealing with people who have not yet spent money with you. This is even harder for some people when you're dealing with clients, people who have spent money with you and who are not getting back to you with the information that you need in order to do the job that they paid you to do. Jay: Yeah, I actually have a client right now that is driving me crazy, because we're in the tax business and they were like "we need to get this done because we have an extension." And so at some moments they're like pressing me like this is so important. And then they'll ghost me for like three or four days. So right now I'm in the ghost period. I've emailed them, I've called them and I'm like, where did they go? And I just know like tomorrow they're going to be, "Hey, we need to get this done." It's driving me crazy, David. David: Yeah. And again, you are not alone. I think everyone in business deals with this, and every time it happens, we're like, why is this happening? I don't get it. And that's why I think it's important for us to take the time and sort of examine this and try to determine, okay, what are the reasons behind it? If it's a client, why are they not getting back to me with the information? So in a situation that you just described, maybe they don't have access to it as quickly as they thought. Obviously, they're just probably distracted with other things. They're working on other projects. They know it needs to be done, but they're not able to do it as quickly as they'd like. Every excuse in the book, some of them valid, some of them not. But when we are tasked with getting things done on somebody else's behalf, and then they refuse to live up to their side of the bargain. That's when we start to run into trouble. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. And I think one of the things that I'm guilty of as we talk about this, is feeling like if I put any pressure on the client, it's going to like affect our relationship or something like that. So I treat people with kid gloves. And I really kind of find out, no, if I'm, I don't know if stern is the right word, but at least, David: Maybe firm? Jay: Yeah, firm maybe is a better term. David:  Yeah, because I think there is a difference between stern and firm. Firm is basically like... Jay: They sound the same. David: Yeah, exactly. Listen, I'm trying to help you here and I need this in order to move forward. And in most businesses, when you're interacting with someone, particularly in a service business, it comes up a lot. So the rapport obviously is key. We have to be able to have the rapport with people to be able to say, "listen, this is what I need. Otherwise I can't move forward on it," and have them be able to come back and say, "yes, listen, I understand. I'll get this taken care of for you." But it doesn't always flow like that. And that's why I think if we start to look at what are the reasons for it, we may be able to have better ammunition in terms of dealing with ...

Knowing vs. Doing in sales is all about implementation. Implementation connects the knowledge you have to the results that you're going to get. And without that key element being implemented again and again and again, you're never going to get to the results, the sales, the possibility that you have in your entire career. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing knowing versus doing in sales. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. I love this topic because I think so many of us are just doing what we think we should do, but we're like, squeaky wheel gets the grease. And so, are we really focusing and fine tuning and honing our sales. David: Right. And doing what we know. Jay: Yeah. David: Because a lot of us can get trapped in input, rather than output. And I know I am guilty of this myself because I am a chronic learner. I am always reading books and studying stuff, watching videos, learning from courses, I spend a whole lot of money educating myself every year. What's the newest, the latest, the greatest, the things that I should be paying attention to? And sometimes when we get too focused on input, we don't engage in the output necessary to get the results we're looking for. Jay: Yeah, I'm exactly the same. Like I have all this technology. I'm always trying to hone my systems, but like we hear garbage in, garbage out, right? I spend so much time on that, maybe I should be spending time on actually closing sales, meeting with clients, you know, those types of things. David: Yeah, and keeping track of what we're doing, keeping track of our output, I think is really important, and a lot of us lose sight of this. I've actually created tools in my training programs that allow people to start to capture that. Because when you boil it down, the things that we need to be doing on an ongoing basis involve bringing new prospects through the door, getting them qualified in or out as quickly as possible. Engaging in presentations with the people who are worthy of presentations, making offers, closing sales, all those things are key. And a lot of that is just about engaging in conversations with people. So simply by tracking what we're actually doing on a day to day or week to week basis, we can have a crystal clear idea of where things are going wrong in our business. But if we just sort of think in the back of our mind, "Oh, well, yeah, I know that, or I'm doing all that," we can really be misleading ourselves more often than we think. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. And when you talk about tracking, I'm looking for the perfect software to track or things like that. And often a notebook, you know, start simple and work your way up. A spreadsheet, something and just reviewing your daily activities can be a very powerful thing. David: Yeah, whatever you'll actually use is your best contact management system, whether that's a full blown CRM software system, or whether you're just good at being able to keep track of your appointments and notes on a calendar or in some sort of notebook. As long as you have it all in one place and you know what's next, that's huge. Knowing what's next for each prospect and client. When do I have to reach out to them and what am I going to be reaching out to them about? If I know that somebody has an event coming up in November and I need to be in touch with them by early October, I want to make sure that I've got a note for early October that says, be in touch with this client, early October, about their event mid November. So that when I reach out to them, I'm not just calling and saying, "I'm just calling to check in" or "how's everything going?" No, I'm calling, "Hey, listen, I wanted to give you a call. We were talking about this event you have coming up in mid November, wanted to see where we are with that," so that we're able to continue the conversation where the last one left off,

A lot of people just think broadly in terms of expanding their market, without asking themselves a really important question, which is why? Why do you need to expand your market? Am I not doing things well enough in my existing market that I haven't been able to mine that as effectively as I could? David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing Expanding Your Market. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you, David. Once again, I'm excited for this conversation. I know we always kind of learn from each other. We're in a process in our business where we're trying to expand from the inside, from our current customer base. Like right now we have a great Google Ads program, but we don't have an organic program, right? So that's one area that we're looking at right now. How do we get those organic leads? So we're right in this process right now. David: That's really interesting because there are so many different ways we can talk about expanding. I mean, the first thing you mentioned, just expanding inside your own customer or prospect base, right? You could just look at your Excel spreadsheet of all these people say, how can I expand within the people on this sheet, right? Or you could be talking, like you mentioned about an ad campaign. How can we expand this ad campaign to reach more of the high quality prospects that I need to reach in order to have those conversations, in order to do business together. So yeah, lots of different ways to do it. I think the appeal of a topic like expanding your market is that a lot of people tend to want to do it. I want to have more customers. I want to have more clients. Not quite sure where that's going to come from. That's sort of the generic thought, I think, for a lot of people. I want more customers. How am I going to do that? And a lot of it boils down to this. minute stuff that we're talking about, identifying who these people are, how we're going to reach out to them, and how we're going to get them on board with us. Jay: Yeah. And I think that's something that a lot of people fall prey to, and I catch myself sometimes as well, is thinking that movement is doing something, right? I'm busy. I'm writing a check. We're doing something and we're just moving. But ultimately, are you getting results and are you monitoring those results and fine tuning them? If not, you're kind of wasting your time. David: Yeah. Confusing movement with progress and they're two different things. You don't even realize you're doing it, but you're like, Oh, I should really do this, I should really do that. And we've also talked about the fact, in previous podcasts, that many business owners suffer from entrepreneurial ADD. Where you're working on one thing and then the whole squirrel, squirrel, squirrel! and we're doing that. And now we're off on something else. I think a lot of us have to reel ourselves back in when it comes to that, because there are so many different ways to expand your market. So many different ways to get in front of different groups of people, and so many different things we can say to those people. And there are too many variables. And I think when you're looking to expand your market, you can't be changing all of the variables. You can't say, okay, now I'm going to go after a totally different group of people with a totally different message and promote a totally different product or aspect of my product, right? Or a different approach to describing my product, because you will have absolutely no idea at that point of what's working and what's not. I mean, in some cases we can do some minor tweaking of maybe one of those variables. If we've got a sales presentation that has worked historically for us, for a long time, then it makes perfect sense to test out that presentation in front of a different group of people who have never heard it.

When you're able to deliver what you say you're going to deliver, that will start to motivate buyers to want to do business with you. And particularly for repeat orders. Because the first time they're buying from you, they don't really know exactly what you can do. They're basing it on what you're telling them, the conversations you're having. But then after they have that first experience with you, and they know what you're like, and they've liked that experience, then they are going to be motivated to buy again. Because at that point, they know those things. And it's not just based on what you're saying. David: Hello and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing what motivates buyers. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Yeah. Hey, it's good to be here, David. I kind of think, why would you need to know or have a discussion about what motivates buyers? I think it's because we assume everybody's like us. And that assumption, can be completely wrongheaded, right? David: Yeah. I know Tony Robbins, in some of his material, talked about the fact that he's not motivational. His goal isn't to motivate people. And I thought that was a really interesting takeaway because you look at somebody like Tony Robbins and you're like, well, that's what he does. He's motivational. He motivates people. But his goal is to educate people and to encourage people and nurture them and provide services that are going to help them in their lives. Like the rest of us, most of us in business, that's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to provide products and services that help our customers. So when we talk about motivating a customer, there are a couple of different aspects to it, because one aspect of it is motivating them to buy, right? Once they have all the information, sometimes it's difficult to get people off the fence. So there's that aspect of motivation, but even in the earlier stages, what will motivate a customer to want to even have a conversation with you? What will motivate a customer to even go to your website to investigate what you have to offer? So my feeling is that motivation, at lots of different levels, is pretty much critical in business and in sales. Jay: Yeah, I agree. And also a recognition that people are different, right? I remember walking into one of my program director's offices and he had a cardboard cutout and it was divided up and all the things that he felt the listeners wanted and I looked at it and this was not based on research. This was just, you know, what he felt. And I looked at it and I'm like, I don't think that's accurate at all. It's nice that you have this cardboard cutout, but I think you need to put a little bit more thought into it. David: Yeah, that's a great point. And a lot of us go into every situation with our own preconceived notions about situations. And so it's the same thing in sales. If we think that a customer is looking for X, Y, and Z, then that's all we're going to be talking about. But that's why I think the whole consultative aspect of selling is so important. Asking questions, diagnosing, finding out what the actual need is. And when it comes to motivation, you're going to be a lot more likely to motivate people based on what they want than what you think they want. Jay: Yeah, I think about people who create the product from the product side instead of from the customer side, right? And we just assume I like it, right? See it on Shark Tank all the time, right? These people are just so invested and they mortgage their homes and they do all these things and they don't have any sales, but they're just so convinced that this product is going to be something that everyone will love and they're shocked to find out that nobody does. David: Yeah. It's like the old adage, when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. He was like, look at this. This is the greatest thing in the world. Like,

I mean, you have a podcast called Building Trust in Sales, you say, "yeah, be trustworthy." That's pretty obvious. But it's also necessary. It's necessary to be that, and to be able to convey that, and just to be authentic with it. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing building trust in sales. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David, it's such a pleasure to be with you. Sales is a huge part of our business model, trusting that system. And, a lot of times it's like crossing our fingers that it will work. I think a lot of people would like to have a little bit more surety than that. David: Yeah. And trust is absolutely critical to the whole experience. If they don't trust you, there's no way they're going to buy from you. Now, there are some people who are untrustworthy and people should not buy from them, right? So if you're untrustworthy, this is not a podcast about how to appear trustworthy. I'm assuming that everybody who's paying attention to this is coming from a place of honesty and fact of being about who we are. Because trust is going to be built on that. The trust is going to be built on the conversations that we're having, how those conversations are taking place. Are we being candid? Do people feel like we are providing them with honest answers to questions? And sometimes in sales, that can be hard for people. There's a balance between wanting to put our best foot forward in sales, and being completely truthful and honest. And I feel that when we're weighing that balance, being completely truthful and honest is absolutely the way to go. Because if you start sugarcoating things, and if you start exaggerating your abilities, and that sort of thing, that's going to end up badly. And so I think in order to build trust, it has to start with ourselves. Are we trustworthy? And if we are, then how do we convey that to the people we're interacting with? Jay: Yeah, I totally agree. And one of the things that, you know, looking at it from a consumer that really bothers me, and we've talked about this in other podcasts, is where I'm on a website, which is often the storefront now, and they're offering me a free quote or something like that and I go through the whole process, and at the end it says enter your email and we'll send you the free quote, and I'm like You freaking lied to me, right? And the last thing I'm going to do after that is reach out to you or give you my email address. David: Yeah, I think if people are clear about what's going to happen up front, that's usually better. I've been in situations like that myself. Now, if I see that somebody's asking questions and I start going through that series of questions, I'm kind of expecting it at the end. But, There are a lot of sites like that, where it'll start out and it'll just ask for your zip code, right? If you're trying to find a professional in a particular area, you enter your zip code, and then they ask what you're looking for, and when you're looking for it, and how soon, and, all that sort of thing, and they do exactly the same thing. You get there and then they want your information, and then some of these sites will pass it on to a hundred different people, and now instead of finding the one solution, now you've got a hundred people annoying you. To me, that's a business model problem. Which creates a trust problem because now, we don't trust anybody who's asking us for any information. So a lot of times the worst players in the market set the tone, set the stage for what we have to go through. And when you're having an honest conversation with someone, talking to them about working with them, they're viewing us through the lens of someone who is not trustworthy. And then we all have to jump through additional hoops just to get back to zero, essentially. Jay: I love this point, but I also think there's another way to look at it,

What do we want the overall customer experience to be like? How do we want this person to be welcomed if they happen to walk into our business? Because we want that experience to be consistent. That's another important aspect of this. The businesses that really consider their customer experience want to make sure that it is absolutely consistent. David: Hello and welcome back in today's podcast. Co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing crafting the customer experience. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you so much, David. And I feel like here once again I'm going to learn something from our discussion because I don't think a lot about crafting the experience. For me, it's like, Hey, we had a sales call. Now you're a client and we'll just fake it until we make it, I guess. David: Right. And that is certainly a way to do it. It's certainly valid. I believe it's probably what many businesses do, perhaps most. The thing that actually got me thinking about this was a trip that I took to Disney World a number of years ago. And I thought about how every aspect of the experience is crafted. It is thought out in advance. It's planned. It's choreographed. There is very little, ideally, that happens there by accident. And at the time, I thought, "wow, as a business, if we were able to craft a similar sort of experience for our customers, what would that look like?" I've done presentations on this topic over the years. It's something that a lot of businesses tend not to think about, but when I raise the issue with them, they seem to feel that it's pretty appealing and interesting. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. It's funny you bring up Disney World or amusement parks. I remember being a little kid and going to an amusement park, and I thought even the staff members were installed as part of the experience. I was amazed when I realized they actually went home after work. And then I ended up working at that very same amusement park on the backside, you know, where all the employees walk? It's so disappointing! David: It's got to be. Jay: Yeah, absolutely, and I think this is one of those topics where we're not talking about, boom, one day you've got the customer experience defined. I think this is a process. It's going to be very different from when you first open your doors, so to speak, because it is something that you should always be fine tuning, correct? David: Yeah, and we can't even fine tune it if we're not thinking about it. If we basically show up for work every day and do what we do, then we're doing what we do. We're not considering what the customer experience is. If you just take the title of this podcast to heart and say, "okay, what if I did want to craft the customer experience? What would that look like?" What happens if somebody calls our business on the phone, what happens? Is it a person who answers? Is it an auto attendant? If so, what does that auto attendant say? Is it encouraging to help people get where they need to go? Is it discouraging? Is it likely to put them off? Something as simple as that, that's one aspect of the customer experience. This is what happens when someone calls us on the phone. This is what happens if someone visits our physical location. This is what happens when I meet someone on a Zoom call or in an in-person situation. Every single aspect of the experience, if it is considered, if it's even thought about, is likely to be a whole lot better than if we're just winging it. Jay: Yeah, such a great point. And I think one of the problems, David, is self-awareness. I think about this in sports. Like when all my daughters played sports and there were players and parents of players who didn't really understand their individual skill set and they thought they were much better than they were. Because of that, they didn't ever progress because they thought they had reached whatever marker that needed to be. They're kind of prideful about it.

Everybody has to make those determinations about their business when making sales and building brands. How am I going to do it? Is it going to be about me? Is it going to be about the customer? And how do I convey that in terms of my company name, my logo, my brand, and any slogans or taglines that you use, in order to communicate all that. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing making sales and building brands. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much, David. And again, just a great topic. I don't know if everybody feels like they're a brand. Like, I'm a company, I offer a service, but am I a brand? When I think of brands, I think of like Kellogg's or Tesla or things like that. I don't know if I think about my own business that way. David: Yeah. And a lot of small businesses don't. But even though they don't, very often, if they don't know what to do from a marketing and sales standpoint, they will copy the big brands because that's what they're seeing. You're watching TV, you see a commercial for Kellogg's or you see a commercial for McDonald's or some retail brand and you say, "Oh, okay, that's what I need to do. I just need to get my name out there." Right? When I think of branding, particularly for small business, that's what I think of. Somebody who's like, "Oh, I just have to get my name out there." And when you've spent as much money on marketing as Kellogg's has, or as McDonald's has, or any of the big companies have, they already know what those companies are all about. They already know what they do. So they can just basically say, come in and buy from us. And they're like, okay, I already know what it's all about. For small businesses to do that, to just put out the name of their company and expect people to want to wander in, it just doesn't happen. And that's why I think this topic, you know, the idea of making sales and building brands, I could have said making sales versus building brands, because I think sometimes people view it as two different things, but ideally we have to do both. And even if it's not a matter of seeing yourself as a brand right now, once You're established enough in your market where people recognize who you are and what you do. That's sort of building a brand in their minds. So that when they hear the name of your business, they associate it with certain things, related to what you do and how you do it. When you think about Tesla or Elon Musk, you have a very good feel for sort of what he's all about and how he tends to approach things. So to me, that's an established brand. When small businesses want to establish a brand, they can spend a lot of money doing it, which is why they kind of have to be making sales along the way and focused on that first. Jay: Yeah, great point. You know, in those big companies, they have the big dollars to have focus groups and all of those things. Talking about the very beginning of your branding, again, I think we're coming up with another podcast topic here, though. People who just throw together their logos or their slogans, It drives me crazy because it's like the first impression when they meet you in public. David: Yeah, and again, with small businesses in particular, sometimes we can be too cute for our own good, too creative, quote unquote, for our own good. We think that something that appeals to us is going to appeal to everyone else. Personally, I think that the simpler we keep it, the more direct we keep it, the more sense it makes. Now Nike spent so much money establishing what that swoosh means that they can put a swoosh up on the screen and people go, Oh, maybe I'll go buy some shoes, right? We can't do that. And so. Unless you have that level of funding, unless you have access to that much money that you can teach people what your logo means, then you have to be a lot more clear and direct about your communication, your logos,

When we think in terms of creating persuasive communication, it's really important to consider the flow. What is the flow of the communication? In what order are you asking these questions and having these conversations? Are you leading with the pitch? Because if you're leading with the sales pitch, then that's not going to work well at all. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing creating persuasive communication. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thanks, David. You mean all communication is not good communication? I just thought sending out emails and random texts, that's the way to go. David: Yeah, random communication is often different than persuasive communication. I guess sometimes it can line up, but the stars have to all be in alignment for that to happen. Jay: Yeah, I see this. I get emails saying, Hey, just following up. And I'm like, Oh, you know, I don't know that that's really how you want to approach a potential customer. There's no energy, there's no urgency, there's nothing persuasive about it. It kind of feels meh. And, I recognize that now cause I'm in that business, right? David: Exactly. And I think if we start from the premise that different prospects have different needs, that's a really good way to start. Because I think a lot of salespeople tend to think in terms of persuasive communication, meaning saying things that will get them to buy from you. And that's only the case if and when we've determined that we have a good fit with the person that we're talking to, right? Persuasive communication doesn't just mean getting them to buy. It's about seeing if they buy into what it is that we do, seeing if we've got enough of a fit to have it make sense. What I think in terms of persuasive communication, it's the kind of thing that's going to get people engaged. It's going to pull them into the conversation rather than repel them from the conversation. So while the term persuasive sort of implies that we're trying to persuade them to do something, that is true, but it's not just about that. It's not just about trying to get someone to do something. It's about seeing if what we're talking about to begin with even makes sense. Jay: Yeah, and I think we talked about that a lot in our last episode, getting to know that customer so that you can build loyalty. How do you expect to send out persuasive communication if you haven't taken the time to get to know them? And for example, I'm in the tax business, which is hard for me to say, I can't believe that happened. But my communication is very different right now in the summer than it is in March, right? In March, there's a built in urgency, and so it's a lot easier to communicate to them what they need. This time of year, very different. David: Right, and the things that you need to persuade them of now are different than the things you have to persuade them of in January, February, March, right? Because what you need to persuade them of now is perhaps thinking in advance about what they're going to need to do rather than trying to cram it in at the last minute. So that's going to change the languaging. If you think in terms of who do you need to appeal to, that's going to be happening throughout the year. What type of prospect am I looking to bring in the door, and how can I help that person to make a decision based on what we're doing as opposed to what someone else is doing? You know, what are they likely to want? And we can't always know that. We can assume, okay, well, I think they're going to want to pay less taxes. That's probably a reasonable assumption. And for some people, for most of them, that's probably going to be the case, but there might be some sort of extenuating circumstance that plays into that as well. And if you're not touching on that, if you haven't taken the time to understand what it is they're actually looking for,

When I think in terms of turning leads into loyal customers, what is that first contact? And I know we've talked about that in a number of podcasts. And then from there, what is the desired path that we want them to take with us, that we want to take with them, right? Without some sort of basic path to get from here to there, the likelihood of making that happen is pretty much slim to none. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing turning leads into loyal customers. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you, David. Such a great topic again. I love our conversations cause I learn so much and I feel like there's a tendency to say, okay, I got the lead. I closed them. Now I'm going to move on to the next lead. And I think we would save ourselves a lot of time and money, if we were able to turn that customer into a returning loyal customer. David: Yeah, absolutely. And you raised a great point because I was thinking in terms of just new leads that come in, turning them into loyal customers. But I think what you pointed out is probably even more important, that we already got someone and we've already turned them into a customer. And now how do we make that customer more loyal to us? I know in a lot of presentations that I've done over the years, I've talked about these sort of different layers of recognition in terms of what do people think about us? And I've often drawn it out like a target for archery practice. And outside the target is the area where it's total obscurity. They have absolutely no idea who we are or why they should do business with us. And at the center of the target, it's complete customer loyalty. And you don't get from, "I don't know who you are," to "I'm completely loyal to you" in one step. It's got to happen in a series of actions. So what you're talking about there, you make that first sale. That doesn't even happen very often in the first contact. A lot of times it requires intelligent repetition of contact to even get to that. We go from obscurity. I don't know who you are, to recognition, I recognize you, but I'm not sure if I love you yet, right? I don't know enough about you. To comfort, and then once we get to comfort, once they're comfortable enough with us to place that first time order, like what you were talking about, then they're going to see how we do. And if we did well, they might give us another chance and come back again. And if we do well on that second one, they might come back and give us a third chance. And then As long as that continues to play out, that's going to lead to that level of loyalty, but it sure isn't likely to happen in one conversation or one transaction. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. But I kind of like where you started off, too, before we dive into that a little bit more. And that is thinking about making the loyal customer out of the lead . Where do you start? Because a lot of people are like, I can't make them loyal until they've purchased a product. That's not true, is it? David: Well, I think if you recognize that when I attract a lead into my organization or when I'm even just trying to attract a lead into my organization, the goal is to turn that person into a loyal, longtime customer or client. So when you start with that perspective, you become a lot more discerning about even the people that you're approaching. You have more skin in the game, because it's not just about, "hey, can I make a sale to pay my bills for today?" It's about, "do I want this person as a loyal customer?" And this goes back to a lot of what we've talked about in previous episodes about qualification and that sort of thing. But if we start out with the idea that we want to turn our leads into loyal customers, I think it positions us better, because it makes it more relational and less transactional. Makes it more about creating the kind of relationship that will result in a loyal cus...

With strategic networking, you can make some initial decisions about who you think you'd like to target. Then it's a matter of saying, "okay, where do these people congregate?" Identifying exactly where they are. Are they online? Are they offline? Most likely they're doing both. But if they are online, where's the best place to find them? And a lot of times, particularly with social media, we just end up interacting with whoever we happen to be connected with. But if that part of it isn't strategic, if we're not connected with the people that we could actually potentially do business with, then we're wasting our ammunition. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the power of strategic networking. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you so much, David. I'm really glad we're talking about this because I think, you know, sometimes I think I'm great at networking, but there's not really any plan. There's not really any, like even down to storing information and how I'm going to follow up on it. I would not use the strategic word in what I'm doing. David: Okay. And I think you're not alone. I know that I have struggled with exactly the same thing. And even when we were thinking in terms of topics for today's podcast, The Power of Strategic Networking. What does it even mean? Right? What does strategic networking even mean? And the way that I'm looking at it is basically that strategic networking means, not just anyone, right? You're not just looking for anyone who can fog a mirror. You're looking for the people who are going to be best suited to you and what you have to offer. I think a lot of us tend to stumble into networking situations, whether it's with a chamber of commerce or BNI group or online in different situations, we're online, we're interacting with people. We consider it networking. But is it networking or is it just schmoozing? Is it just interacting with other people, or is it designed to get a positive result from a business standpoint? So I think if we start with that, the idea of strategic networking being that we're doing it for a specific result, which is to meet and interact with the type of people that we can ultimately do business with, then it becomes a whole different thing than just talking to people. Jay: Yeah. Again, this is so important because we're always talking about maximizing your time, focusing on the things that only you should be doing. And if you're just out there collecting business cards and now you have to follow up on each one of those. individuals, you're going to be spinning your wheels a lot and that's going to cost you money and time in the short term and long term. David: Yeah, especially if you're not quite sure what to do with those business cards. In other words, if you're just thinking, okay, I'm going to meet people, collect business cards, gather information, and then follow up with them. It's too generic. I mean, what does that even mean in terms of follow up? What does that even mean? And so for our clients, one of the things that we stress a lot is the idea of getting them qualified in or out as quickly as possible. I know so many salespeople who have engaged in networking that was you meet someone, you exchange business cards, and then you keep contacting them. You try to schedule an appointment to meet with them, to try to find out what they need and all that sort of thing without ever bothering to try to find out whether or not they're even a decent prospect for the products and services you offer. And it can be a huge waste of time if, in fact, they are not. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. We talk about time wasting and I think that even applies to thinking about it before you go into a situation where you want to employ marketing. Like in my particular use case, just walking into a room full of business owners doesn't cut it because I have a very niche product.

There are a lot of people who aren't quite sure where they are with the whole business growth thing vs. just maintenance. Some people are content where they are. And if you're okay with just maintaining, then none of this applies to you. Right? You're not required to grow your business if that's not where you're going. But there are so many people that I talk to that really want to do it. They want it to grow. They want it to be more than it is. They want to be able to create better lives for themselves, for their employees, for their families, for everybody they impact. And they know they can't do it without growing. And when they use maintenance as an excuse, that's a tough one to overcome. David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing business growth versus just maintenance. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey David, once again, it is a pleasure to be here. And it's so funny, oftentimes we choose these topics and I'm like, "man, I am right in the middle of that!" So, again, I'm excited to discuss this with you. David: Yeah, I think the reason that I wanted to talk about it, this came to mind fairly recently because I've had so many conversations with people, business owners primarily, small business owners for the most part, some sales managers, who say, "listen, I really need to grow this business. I need to grow my sales. I need to grow my profits. I need to make that happen now. This is a priority for me." And then we talk about some of the incentives and we talk about some of the things that they're going to need to do. we talk about some of the steps they'll need to follow and nearly all of it is designed to save them time, save them money, generate more revenue, just make everything a whole lot easier and a whole lot better. And one of the things that I find extremely frustrating is when I'm talking to someone like that, who then says, well, I really don't feel like I have time to implement this because I have so much that I'm dealing with on a daily basis, maintaining the business, essentially. I'm busy doing this and I'm busy doing that. And I'm doing all these different things that are allowing me to stay just underwater, a little bit, where my nose is just barely peeking up and down above the water, but I don't have time to do the things that are going to get me out of the water and make sure that things are still functioning the way that they need to function. So in most cases, I believe that growth is the solution to maintenance, but it doesn't work the other way around. Jay: Yeah. What is it? Winning gets rid of all the stink or, you know, whatever. Winning is the best deodorant. That's what it is. Winning is the best deodorant. David: That's true. Jay: Yeah, you know, it's funny, this last year, I'm kind of reliving everything that you're talking about, because of our seasonality, we have times where we have to be all growth, all the time, we have this influx of customers. We can't be worried about maintenance at that moment, but then all of a sudden, it practically dies instantly, so now we're asking the question, "How do we maintain our current base?" Because we want them to be back and so what maintenance things do we need to do? But not only that, what about the people who we talk to who might be interested in the future? Can we reach out to them on a regular basis? So now that we've died down, we're talking about drip programs, we're talking about newsletters to our existing clientele. So we're kind of in this process between maintaining, we still want to grow during this time so we can pay our bills. But we're really kind of in this mode where we're trying to do both, but a certain part of the year we can't do one. We just don't have time. David: Right. Yeah, it's hard to grow when the business is just coming in. And in seasonal businesses like yours, that's particularly true.

There are so many situations where inadequate product knowledge, damaged reputation, and inefficient or poorly executed sales processes come from having untrained salespeople. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will discuss the incredible cost of untrained salespeople. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, it's such a pleasure to be here, David. Sometimes I think I'm that guy. I'm the untrained salesperson. So, this will be very informative to me, I hope. David: Okay. Well, you know, there's a difference between being untrained and untrainable. So, as long as you're trainable, that's a really big plus. Jay: OK, I feel a little better. David: No, I'm sure you're trainable, but untrained salespeople can really cause a great deal of harm to themselves, to their companies, to their prospects, to the businesses they're associated with. It is really kind of epidemic and It's largely unnecessary. A lot of it comes from, particularly in small businesses an employers desire to delegate it quickly, to get it off their plate. Like, "okay, I'm not doing this as well as I'd like. I better hire somebody else to do it." And they're hoping that that person is going to know how to do it. And if you don't have protocols in place, like we talked about in our previous podcast, then of course that just makes it that much more difficult. But the biggest problems that people are likely to run into, the obvious ones are lost sales opportunities, right? Cause I'm talking to somebody who could potentially buy, but I'm saying all the wrong things and I'm not positioning the company well, and I'm not finding the right needs that the people are actually looking for, and I'm saying the wrong things, there's no way that sales is going to happen. It's a bad reflection on the salesperson and the company, and the prospect will walk away thinking that that company is not good at what they do because the salesperson did not do a good enough job of explaining what they do. So, it creates a complete disconnect between what the business might be capable of and what the world is likely to think they're capable of. So that's a killer. Poor communication is another one that when you have a salesperson who is not trained on what they need to ask, what they need to find out from the prospect, how they need to address those questions and issues, that defines poor communication, because they're just going to say whatever comes to their mind or they're going to say, "well, I have to find out, let you know." Now there are situations in pretty much any sales scenario where that might be the case, where you don't have every single bit of information that they might need to know. So there will be situations where you might have to find something out. But if it's happening more than a couple of times at any particular sales presentation, you might want to look at the process that you're using to make that happen. The training that you have or have not received. Actually, this really does dovetail pretty well in our previous conversation about protocols. So if you're seeing this podcast and you didn't see that one, go back and watch that one as well because these things really tie together. Jay: Yeah, a couple of things come to mind. And the first is, how do you know you have an untrained salesperson? If they are not where you're at, if they're doing outside sales and they're sitting in somebody else's office, how do you know what they're saying and how they're interacting? That can be very difficult. The second thing is if they're on the phone making those calls, how do you assess their situation there? Like I said earlier, we have a system that records all phone calls coming in and out. So that's one way that we have to listen back to calls and give feedback. So maybe you have to go on those sales calls and listen. Maybe you have to have a hidden microphone,

A lot of the people that I work with now are exceptional at what they do, but they may struggle to get other people in their organization to be able to do it, because they haven't codified the success protocols that would allow them to say, "okay, this is how we perform this task. This is how we do this. This is how we do that." And when they start doing that, they're just amazed at how far their people can come so quickly. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing your protocols for success. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, it's such a pleasure to be here with you again. This may be a situation where I want to sit back and listen to you a little bit because I know you have a lot of experience and coming up with these protocols and things like that. So I'm just going to say hit me and I'll see if I can learn something here. David: Okay. Well, when I talk about protocols for success, we talk a lot about systems and processes and the work that we do with our clients. And if you want to be able to create consistent results in your business, you need to have these things in place. Protocols is another term for it. But the reason I like the word protocols is that it sort of establishes the fact that these things aren't optional. This is what we're doing. This is how we're doing it in this organization. And when you approach it like that, everything gets a lot easier because you don't have to make a hundred different decisions now. It's like, I know what the process is. I simply need to follow it. If you're veering from it, you know it. If you're on it, you know it. And so does everybody else. People who don't like accountability will not like that. But people who do like accountability will know, Hey, listen, I followed this procedure to the letter and this didn't work. And then you can talk to the person that you're working with to have them explain, okay, well maybe this protocol needs to be changed or updated. It's almost like a baseline. Most people need to start with some sort of baseline protocol that they're going to say, okay, this is how we do this. This is how we perform this particular task. And then you have a number of people do it and they follow the protocol or they don't. If they follow it and they get a comparable or consistent result, great. That's a good protocol. If five different people try it and they get five different results and they all follow the protocol, you have a problem with your protocol. You need to clarify, you need to identify, okay, what are the problems with each of these steps? And I need to tweak that so that when I hand it to five different people, they can all get a similar result. That's the nutshell version. Jay: Hmm. You know, this is something that's so critical. I think a lot of managers miss this point. Managers are afraid to hold people to the protocol or hold them accountable, and they don't realize that this actually robs your staff from feelings of success. Because if you don't have a baseline, and the baseline is basically when they fall before it, it's not a matter of getting mad at them, it's a matter of saying, okay, what was wrong with the protocol first? And if the protocol is good, then we probably have a training issue, right? So that's underneath the expected line. But above the line means that they met the line or they did better. That's the only way you're going to feel success. If there is no line, I promise you, your employees will never feel like, man, we did it. Because you never put a baseline on it. So that's, to me, how you consistently make people happy. And that's why I like the word protocol over accountability, because accountability always sounds negative to people. David: Yeah. I mean, accountability is basically, did you follow the protocol or not? The protocol is the list of steps saying this is how we accomplish this task.

Indecision comes with a high price. I think most of us in business try to make the best decisions possible, but really it becomes a matter of saying, "okay, do I have all the information I need?" And if I do, then make the decision. Say yes, say no, but make the decision. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I are back with a talk on the high price of indecision. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to be here. And I think this is something that we all suffer with, especially in a new business, just knowing what you should do. What are your priorities? How can you tell that? Paralysis by analysis is very common. David: Yeah, no question. And I think some people are more wired to be decisive while others are more wired to be indecisive. If you're decisive, dealing with indecisive people is extremely frustrating. And if you're indecisive, dealing with decisive people can feel a little intimidating. So it's a challenge. Jay: Yeah. And I think sometimes you need both. I mean, if you're sitting around waiting to make a decision. You could miss the perfect opportunity, right? But if you move too fast, you're probably not going to be prepared for that situation. So we got to find balance in the force here. How do we do that? David: Great question. Yeah. I think missed opportunities is definitely the first thing we tend to think of when it comes to indecision. But if we're trying to find balance in the force, then that would also mean talking about, well, should decisive people do anything differently? And my guess is that's kind of a quick one. My guess would be to say, all right, if you think you're too decisive, then maybe you need to take a step back, aand consider things a little more. But in business, wow, it's much more detrimental in most cases, in my opinion, to be indecisive. And there's a great quote from Tom Watson that says: "Solve it. Solve it quickly, solve it right or wrong. If you solve it wrong, it will come back and slap you in the face, and then you can solve it right. Lying dead in the water and doing nothing is a comfortable alternative because it is without risk, but it is an absolutely fatal way to manage a business." So there are lots of schools of thought on this. The bottom line for most of us is that you're better off making a decision, because if it's the wrong decision, you'll find out sooner, and then you can change it and make a better decision. If it's the right decision, then you're already past the point where you would have been if you were still putting it off. Jay: Yeah, I think part of this though is to be decisive, but to be informed in your decisiveness. If you don't have good tracking of what's going on, like, we were decisive before, and this is how we learned, and we tracked it, and so next time we can move faster because we have some knowledge, we have some key performance indicators, those things are going to help our decisions go faster, and we're going to be more confident in those decisions. Because for me, sometimes when I feel like we've acted too soon, I'm not at my best. I'm hesitant because I'm hoping it's going to work, but I'm not sure that there's anything backing it up. David: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think you also sort of raised an interesting point, which is the difference between informed decisions and uninformed decisions, right? I don't think decisiveness means just making up your mind without having all the facts. I'm saying basically, if you've got all the facts and you're failing to decide, that to me is indecisiveness. If you've got all the facts and then you ARE deciding, that to me is decisiveness. But I completely agree with you. If you don't have all the information then it's too soon to make a decision. But in sales situations, a lot of times salespeople struggle because the people they're talking with don't have...

Particularly in the early stages, breaking through a sales plateau may just mean doing more of what you're doing. But generally, at some point, we hit a plateau that is created by the fact that we can't run any faster. We can't do any more by ourselves. So we either need to implement new procedures and new processes, we need to get some help, or something needs to change fundamentally in the business in order to get us to that next level. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, cohost Jay McFarland, and I will be discussing the idea of breaking through your sales plateau. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: It's so good to be here again with you David, and as always, I'm very excited about this topic. I know businesses that hit these thresholds. It can be a monumental task to get to the next level and they're not sure how to do it. Is it, is it marketing? Is it adding new products? I think that's what a lot of them try to do. They're like, well, let's add 10 more products to the lineup and then we'll do it. And oftentimes that can just make the situation worse and not better. David: Yeah, it's true. Most businesses, I think it's safe to say, at some point run into some sort of plateau. They hit a level of sales and they can't get past it. I believe in small businesses this is particularly true, where you're just working and pushing and you're trying to get to that next benchmark. And you just can't reach it. And there are thresholds, I believe in small business, getting to your first hundred thousand in gross sales and then your first 250, and then you hit 500 and then a million and then 2 million and going from there. And in the early stages, you can generally do pretty well, like to get from a hundred thousand to 250 is often easier than it is to get from a million to 2 million. But most of us, at some point, will encounter some sort of sales plateau. You get there, you see it, you're targeting it, you're working toward it and you just can't seem to hit it. And so it's really just a matter of getting stuck. It's like, I feel like I'm stuck and I'm here and I need to be here and I'm not sure what to do next. Jay: Yeah. And I wonder how much of it is that they're not really sure how they got to the first plateau. I mean, they may think that they know, David: That's true. Jay: But it could be something completely different. And this could go back to something we talked about in a previous podcast: following up with your customers. Find out why they purchased, how they feel about their purchase. Are they returning customers? Are they not returning customers? So if you didn't understand why they bought in the first place and how they felt about that purchase, it's going to be hard breaking through that next plateau. David: It is, absolutely. And the biggest hangup that I see for most people is not knowing, "what do I do next?" And as you indicated, people get to a certain point in some cases, they're not sure how they did it. What's that referred to as? Unconscious competence? Jay: Mm-hmm, David: Where I'm doing things and it's working, but I'm not even sure of what I've done. So I haven't gotten around to building a system around it to put that into place so I can replicate it. But there's also the idea that what gets me to here will not necessarily get me to here. Right? So what gets me to level one won't necessarily get me to level two. That's not always the case, particularly in the early stages, you can do more of what you're doing to get to a higher level. But generally, at some point, we hit a sales plateau that is created by the fact that we can't run any faster. We can't do any more by ourselves. So we either need to implement new procedures and new processes. Or we need to get some help. Or something needs to change fundamentally in the business, in order to get us to that next level. Jay: Yeah, something that can be very hard for people,

Brute force selling usually comes about when someone feels like they have to sell their product or service, regardless of the needs, wants, or desires of their prospect. The alternative is better understanding, relationship building, and effective qualification. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, cohost Jay McFarland, and I will be discussing the idea of brute force selling. Welcome, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you so much, David. I know we've talked about a lot of different issues, you know, generating leads and those types of things. I'm very anxious to talk about this brute force. When I hear it, as a customer, I'm like "brute for selling? What exactly do you mean here?" Because I might want to run away from it. The Case Against Brute Force Selling David: Yeah, well, I'm not really here today to advocate for brute force selling, okay? So, definitely not my first choice, but it seems to me like there are so many people, so many industries that tend to engage in it, that I thought we should probably have the discussion. Jay: Yeah. I mean, nothing could be worse than chasing potential clients away. I think there's a fine line between brute force and still trying to help customers understand the importance of your products and using good sales techniques. It's really a fine line. Isn't it? David: It is. There's definitely a balance. And I think there's a big difference between persistence and brute force selling. But to get to the core of it. I think one of the biggest problems that a lot of small business owners and salespeople have today is that they think in terms of selling. I have to sell this product, or I have to sell this idea. I have to sell this concept. I have to sell this customer. "I have to sell," being the main thing. When you're approaching someone for the first time with the idea of, "I have to sell," it's easy to slip into the wrong gear about trying to push what you have onto them before you've even identified, whether they have a need desire, money, budget, willingness to spend, any of those things. When I think in terms of brute force selling, to me, it's often about people who have gotten into sales. They've been given maybe a lead sheet or in the old days, it was a phone book by their manager who said, "Go make sales. Knock yourself out." And when you don't know how to do that well, then trying to sort of push or bully or cajole people into buying from you becomes the default. So when the focus is just on sales as the first, middle, and end of the process, it's kind of a lose/lose for both the salesperson and the prospect. Also for the company. So it's a lose all the way around. Effective Qualification is the Key If we can train salespeople on the idea of first determining need, identifying whether or not this person is a good candidate for what we're selling. I mean, we're really just talking about qualifying. And a lot of salespeople and even a lot of sales managers fail to make the distinction between qualification and selling. When we're qualifying somebody, we're not trying to convince or persuade them to buy our stuff. We're trying to find out if our stuff even makes sense for them. And what I've seen over the years is that there are a lot of salespeople who waste enormous amounts of time pushing and trying to sell to people who have absolutely no capability even to buy what it is that they're selling. Without taking that step back and saying, okay, let's do a little qualification first. Let's find out what this person is dealing with, and what sort of help they need. And if I can even help them, if you do that first, then you can find out pretty quickly if somebody is a good prospect for you or not. And if they're not, then rather than trying to push them into buying something that they don't want or can't afford you can thank them for their time. And you can actually move on and get in front of somebody who has a much better li...

Just the idea of initiating first contact versus cold calling is a lot more exciting. It's a lot less intimidating in most cases. I started using that phrase after I saw an old Star Trek movie where they referred to first contact as being your first contact with an alien species. And I just thought, wow, that has a lot of correlations with sales. Where you're approaching somebody and you really don't know what you're getting into. Strange new worlds and all that sort of thing.... David: Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, cohost Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the idea of initiating first contact with a new prospect. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: I'm so glad to be here, David, and I'm excited to talk about this issue because to me, personally, this is one of the hardest things to do. I'm fine once that first contact has been made. I feel like I'm really good at building relationships and closing. David: Mm-hmm. Jay: But I'm terrified about making that first contact and I'm not really sure how to do it. So I find myself shooting in the dark all the time trying to figure it out. David: Yeah, well, you're certainly not alone. I've certainly felt that way myself, and nearly everybody I've ever met in sales has had issues with it. And we talked about this in a previous podcast. We were talking about cold calling and the idea that cold calling is really just one form of first contact. And so the reason I thought it would be good to have a discussion on the topic of First Contact itself is to first of all, recognize that, yeah, it's more than just cold calling. There are lots of different aspects to it. And if you realize that, then you also realize that you can get comfortable with first contact, generally by engaging in a first contact method that is more comfortable for you. So if cold calling is not your primary thing, you have other alternatives and that should maybe give you a little bit of hope. Jay: Yeah, that does give me hope and I think the key is to know what the possibilities are. Because like I said, sometimes I'm like, okay, my only option is to cold call, and that's not working. So really understanding what are the other options available. And the other thing I found is, lately I'm better at cold calling because you force yourself to do it enough and you can build a skill and you can get over the hump at least I'm finding that. David: Yeah, absolutely. And when you are good at cold calling, and there are a lot of people who are very good at it, there are a lot of people who actually really like it. They don't even struggle with the call reluctance and that sort of thing, but for those who do struggle with it, I think just discussing this idea of first contact is going to be helpful. And if we think about why first contact is really so important, in my mind at least, it's because it really helps to set the stage for the entire relationship. Whatever it is that they're going to learn about us or think about us down the road, it's all going to come from what that first contact is. If it's a great experience, they're going to have good feelings about us. If it's less than a great experience, then they're not going to feel as great about it. Since it sets the tone, it's really important that people become comfortable with it, or at least come up with a form of first contact that they can be reasonably comfortable with. Jay: Yeah. It's such a great line of thinking. I hadn't really thought about it that, that first moment, maybe the first five minutes, David: Right. Jay: That could determine the whole lifespan of the relationship. How they view you. How they respond to your sales pitch. Everything. It's kind of like we do it in life. First impressions, we know, are everything. Right? David: Exactly. And now there are so many different forms of first contact. For somebody you've never met, their first contact with you could be something they saw...

Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will continue our discussion about the AI Approach to Multiply Your Sales. This is part four in our series, and today we'll be talking about learning, segmenting, and the Three Ds. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you so much, David. I really, really enjoyed this. I know I've said that in previous podcasts, but it's true. After each one, I've gone into my own business and I'm like, okay, I got to apply this and apply that because these conversations are of such value. So I appreciate your time. I love this. And hopefully it's been helpful to everybody else. David: I'm glad, I feel the same way, and I'm really looking at this almost like a mini-course. If people were to put together these four episodes and say, "How much of this stuff am I doing in my business?" You can probably implement some things very quickly that can probably help you get some great results. Jay: 100%. David: All right, so let's do the quick review. And again, what we're talking about here is we asked AI what will help you to multiply your business because that's been a focus of our conversations recently. AI came back with some different responses, and then we're talking about what AI says and how we're able to help implement those things in business with our clients. And so let's just recap. Number one was refine your target audience. Number two, develop a compelling value proposition. Number three, optimize your marketing channels. That was our first episode on that topic. In episode two, we covered points four, five, and six. Number four was enhance your customer experience. Number five, implement a referral program. And number six, leverage the power of content marketing. In episode three of this series, we hit utilize upselling and cross selling strategies, which was number seven. Analyze and optimize your sales funnel, which was number eight, and invest in customer relation management software, CRM, which was number nine. Now we're going to be doing 10, 11, and 12. Eleven and 12 are really bonus because originally I asked it for 10 and then I realized that doesn't break out well if you're doing three in a podcast. So I went back to the AI and I said, give me two more. And it did. So we'll be talking about numbers 11 and 12 in this podcast as well. So number 10 in the list of things that AI says will help you to multiply your sales is: 10: Continuous learning and adaptation. Stay updated with industry trends, attend relevant workshops or conferences, and be open to adapting your sales strategies to meet changing market demands. Well spoken AI! Continuous education. It's a good call! Jay: It is, and some professions actually require it. But again, that continuous education is often on a service or a specialty or things like that. It's not really on customer service or the technology or things like that. I feel like in that regard, so many of us are a hamster on a wheel. You know, we're just trying to keep up with what today is giving us. We're putting grease on the squeaky wheel and we don't have time to really think about staying up on, you know, all the latest trends and those kind of things. David: Yeah. And a lot of people just don't like continuing education, because they feel like so much of it is platitudes. It's like, I already know this stuff. I already know it, right? But knowing what to do is very different than knowing how to do it. And that's really what I've been trying to differentiate in this series of podcasts is that, yes, these are great statements. Continuous learning. That sounds great. But what are you learning? Are you learning things that you can implement immediately? Are you putting in place processes that will allow you to start getting results right away so you can gauge those results and then adapt, change, or tweak the process as you go to make sure that it's working for you?

David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will continue our discussion about the AI Approach to Multiply Your Sales. This is episode three in our series, and it's about upselling, sales funnels, and your CRM. David: Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you, David. This has been fascinating for me as I look at what AI recommends. And even just apply some of those basics to my own business but also realizing that these are kind of general, and figuring out how to apply them to everybody's individual circumstances is no easy feat. David: Exactly. And one of the things that I've really liked about this series is having the opportunity to talk about the "how" of a lot of this stuff, because as business owners, as salespeople, we've heard these recommendations forever. But the question is always, "well, how do you go about doing it?" And so what I've been trying to do in this series is to say, okay, here's the general what you ought to do, but then there's the, how do you go about doing it? And this is exactly what we help our clients with. So it's been really fun for me to be able to go through these and say, okay, there are probably lots of ways to do these things, but this is how we do it. Because our goal is to simplify it for our clients. So you don't have to say, Oh, well, should I do this? Should I do that? Should I do this? It's like, okay. Implement this, gauge the results, see how it goes, report back, if we need to tweak it, if we need to do something different, we can, but you have an instant starting point, and that allows you to get actions taken, get results back quickly, and then be able to adapt as you go. Jay: Yeah, I love that, that you're able to kind of cut through all of the noise out there because there's so much noise, and help them identify for their individual situation what they need because they may have asked AI and we have some of those lists here and items from AI, but again, it's just a starting point. David: Exactly. So let's take a look at the things that we already discussed in the previous episodes. And once again, what we're doing here is we asked AI, what are the things that will allow us to multiply our sales? It came back with number one, define your target audience. Number two, develop a compelling value proposition. Number three, optimize your marketing channels. We covered that in previous episodes. Number four was enhance your customer experience. Number five was implement a referral program. Number six was leverage and the power of content marketing. So now in this episode, we're going to tackle numbers seven, eight, and nine, which is upselling, sales funnels, and your CRM. So let's get to number seven. 7. Utilize upselling and cross selling strategies: Offer complementary products or services to increase the average transactional value and maximize customer value. What do you think? Jay: Yeah. I mean, it makes a lot of sense. I will tell you this was much easier to grasp in my mind when I was in the restaurant business, right? It's like, you want fries with that? You know, let's make it a value meal. Let's make it a, you know, a combo, whatever. I will tell you, we've spent a lot of time in my current business identifying what are the other things, other products that we can offer that our customers will want, not things that we can shove down their throat, but what other things can we add that they may be looking for because they came to us? David: Yes, exactly. And I think people hear about upselling and cross selling and they're like, Oh yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Most people are familiar with the restaurant, the McDonald's example, "want fries with that." So it makes sense, but it's like, okay, how do I apply that to my business? And one of the ways that we help our clients do that is to identify, okay, well, what does this mean? What is upselling versus cross selling and all that ...

David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be continuing our discussion on the AI approach to multiply your sales. This is part two in our series, and today we'll be discussing service, referrals, and content marketing. David: Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you so much, David. I'm really enjoying this discussion about AI because I think we've already established there are some great tools and resources with AI, but it's not exactly to the point where it needs to be. But more specifically, can it really speak to your individual situation? How do you pick through that and know what's right for you? David: Exactly, and last week we were talking about the first three recommendations it made, which were define your target audience, develop a compelling value proposition, and optimize your marketing channels. This week, we're going to be talking about its next set of recommendations. And it starts with number four on its list is: 4. Enhance Your Customer Experience. Focus on delivering exceptional customer service and creating a positive experience at every touch point to build loyalty and encourage repeat business. That sounds nice. Jay: It sounds fantastic. Again, just do that. You know, but how do you do that? I think I mentioned in the last podcast that so often people go into business not because they're great at customer service, but because they have a great recipe, or they have a great product. And they don't really think about how to offer that in a great way. I'm in the accounting field now, which kind of blows my mind and is a different conversation. But I find generally, David, that accountants don't know how to give good customer service. And they kind of feel like they have a captured audience and so they don't even try to give good customer service. David: And a lot of accountants also really struggle with marketing because they feel like it's Jay: Yes, yes. David: Kind of, if not beneath them, they feel uncomfortable with it. They don't want to come across as a salesperson. They're very good at what they do and they're less good at finding the people they need to do that sort of thing. And that's why a lot of them, a lot of small business accountants struggle, because they're great at accounting and not so great at the things that we're talking about here that will actually allow them to service more customers. Jay: Yeah, you're exactly right. Where I've come from, the retail side, the customer service side, that's been my whole background. So, we're kind of owning our little space in the marketplace, because we're focusing on that up front, and people recognize a difference immediately. David: Yeah, exactly. So, one of the things we talked about in the previous podcast related to AI telling us how to multiply sales is that some of these recommendations come across as rather general. Okay, so enhance your customer experience is not really the kind of thing you would think of as "okay, this will allow me to multiply sales." It's a necessity. You have to have exceptional customer service in your business if you want to survive, let alone thrive, let alone multiply business. But it doesn't seem to me to be a multiplier in and of itself. However, when we think about this idea, what can we do to make the experience better, what can we do to expedite the experience, make these things happen better and more consistently, that will allow us to get the velocity we need, in my opinion, to be able to then Multiply your sales. In other words, it's not enough to just do a great job with customer service. We need to be able to do it with a cadence of accountability. We need to be able to do it in a way where it's happening consistently. People are able to move through our process, get what they need, feel like they've been extremely well taken care of, and then we can move on to the next person. Jay: Yeah,

David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the AI Approach to Multiply Your Sales. This is part one in a multiple part series, and we're going to start off with targeting, communication, and reach. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David, it's great to be with you. I'm really excited about this series because I think a lot of people shy away from AI. Or they're getting into it and they're hearing a lot of the things that it can do, but they're not sure how to approach it or even if it's the right thing to do for their business. David: Yes. Agreed. And the way this actually came about is that we've been talking for a while over the course of the past several weeks in particular about multiplying your sales. And some people really struggle with this concept. And I thought, well, what does AI have to say on the topic, and how does what AI says about it relate to what we do, and how we help our clients, and do these things line up? So I thought what I'd do is I'd take the answer to the question when we asked AI, "What are your best recommendations in terms of multiplying sales," to see what AI says and then compare that with what we're doing. And so the first three recommendations that it had were based on targeting, communication, and reach. Those are my words, not AI words in particular. But that's pretty much what it broke down to, so I figured that's what we'd start with. Jay: I love it. We're going to do a podcast on AI, and we've asked AI what it thinks first, and now we're going to psychoanalyze AI to see if it's in line. David: Well, to see how it lines up. Because one of the things that I found interesting was that when I asked it about multiplying sales, it was coming back with responses that talked about increasing sales. And so I asked it specifically to come up with recommendations based on multiplying sales. And at first it seemed resistant to that. So it talked about growing sales and multiplying sales. But this is where it landed. So I figured we'd start with this. Now, I had asked it to prioritize these things. I'm not quite sure if it did. But this is what it came back with. So the very first recommendation that it had in terms of multiplying sales. I'll tell you specifically what it said first and then we can discuss it. So the first thing that it recommended is it said: 1. Define Your Target Audience. Clearly identify your ideal customers and understand their needs, preferences, and pain points. So, that's how it started. What do you think of that take? Jay: It sounds very, very traditional, very typical, common knowledge. The first thing that I learned in a sales class years ago, identifying your target audience. But I feel like that's so basic, and when you talk about multiplying sales, I tend to think that's more about taking the existing clientele and getting them to spend more. That's what I think about. David: I tend to think that way as well, but I thought it's a pretty good jumping off point because whether your target audience means your existing clients and the new clients that you want to go after, I think it makes a whole lot of sense to lead with, determining who it is that you're going to be going after. I relate a lot of this to what we do in our Total Market Domination course. One of the very first things we do in our course is we have a three level system of targeting. So what AI is recommending here in sort of a general sense, in terms of defining your target market, is something that we really dive into pretty heavily with our clients. Because without that targeting up front, if you don't know exactly who it is that you're going after, who your ideal client is, the likelihood of bringing an ideal client through the door is Is generally slim to none. Jay: Yeah. And you know, we've talked a lot about this in the past that knowing who your target audience is,

David: If you want to multiply money, it means you have to figure out the very specific steps that you need to take in order to make that happen. Hi and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will discuss the topic, Can You Multiply Money? Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey David, of course you can. I have a tree in my backyard. Money grows on it and I just have to water it every year. What else do I need? David: Nice. No, that's great. You got a money tree. You're in great shape. When I think about the abilty to multiply money, I know that in the early stages of some of my businesses, and in the early stages of trying to figure out how to make them work, I was able to multiply money. But I was multiplying it by fractions, you know. So... If you multiply money by 0. 5, you now have half the money you started out with. So I think we're all able to multiply money. But, ideally, we want to multiply by whole numbers. Jay: Yeah, I agree, but we also subtract money. I'm not sure what the terminology is. Bbut a lot of times in an attempt to multiply money, if you're not careful, you're actually losing money. David: Yeah. And you will have to invest. You'll have to make investments up front. I think a lot of times people go into business, particularly small business owners, will go in with the idea of, "well, I'll just bootstrap it." And it's certainly what I've done, I did that a number of times and when it works, it's fantastic. And when it doesn't, it's disastrous. So as long as you recognize that going in, it's all okay. But having that focus, what will it take to get this going? How much will it cost? How long will I have to work for nothing, if I bootstrap entirely? A lot of those questions come into play. Jay: Yeah, otherwise it's kind of gambling. You know, starting a business is kind of a form of gambling, but the better the idea is, the more help you have along the way, the more financially stable you can be in the process, the more you increase the odds that your gamble will pay off. David: Yeah, and it really is a gamble in the truest sense of the word. Because you don't know if it's going to work. It might work and it might not. You may have a really good feel for it. You may have done it before and say, okay, I feel really good about this. I think this is really going to work, but it's still a bet. You're still guessing and betting that it's going to work based on what you know. You think you can multiply money, but you can't be sure until you try. I've never really been a gambler in terms of casinos and things like that, but I guess people who do that well and know how to do it, they can go into a situation and say, "okay, I have a pretty good feel for the fact that I'm going to make back a multiple of what I lay down on the table. And sometimes they're right and sometimes they're wrong. And it's exactly the same in business. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. Only in business, you may put a lot of things on the line, your family's future. You may quit your job. You really put yourself out there in many ways. I found success in making sure my family is supported with a day job and then I pursued other things on the side. Meanwhile, I had other family members who have said, "no, I'm going all in" and they put everything at risk. And that didn't turn out so well, but you know, it depends on the individual and the idea, I think. David: Yeah, absolutely. And I know in the early stages I tried doing sort of a sideline thing for a while and I could never personally make that work. Jay: Yeah, yeah. David: Because it was hard for me when somebody else was paying me money to do a job, I didn't feel like I could walk away to do my thing, so I was torn in that way. When I was working on my side project, I felt like I should either be working on the work that was paying me or when I was at real work, I felt like I should be working on my business.