Podcast appearances and mentions of David So

If you want to increase revenue, upselling and cross-selling can help. So what’s the difference? Upselling means selling a better or a higher priced version of the thing that they’re looking at. Whereas cross-selling is making a recommendation of something that’s compatible. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the topic of upselling and cross-selling. Are you doing it? Welcome back, Jay Jay: Yeah, hey, thank you, David. Listen, have these bad memories when I was a kid and I was working in a fast food place and the manager was always pressing me, “ask them if they want a Coke, ask them if they want fries.” And I got to a point where it’s hard to upsell and I think this has grown into my adulthood. You know, I just barely got the sale and now I’m asking them for more. It’s not an easy thing to do for people. David: You know, it’s interesting you should mention the fast food example because it’s the perfect example. It’s the one that everyone can relate to. “You want fries with that?” Jay: Yeah. David: Or the shortened version that you hear a lot of times, “want fries with that,” as the four word upsell. And it works extremely successfully for people in that sort of industry. Because it makes sense. Somebody’s coming in, they’re ordering whatever, a burger or something, or they’re ordering a burger and a drink, “want fries with that” makes perfect sense. And some percentage of time they’re going to say yes. And whether that is 1% of the time or 80% of the time, it’s probably maybe 30 to 60% of the time, I would guess, they’re going to say yes. Because it’s like, “oh, all right, sure. Why not? I’m already here.” Jay: Yeah. David: And you hit on a great point, which is that we can feel funny about upselling, if we feel like the purpose is to simply get more money out of a person. If it feels like it’s completely one-sided, if it feels like it’s manipulative, then we’re not going to want to do it. So I personally believe that the times that we should upsell and cross-sell are the times when we truly believe that we have an additional solution that is going to be better for them. Now, in the fast food example, are french fries better for you on top of the Coke and the hamburger? Jay: Yes! David: Probably not from a, health level, but certainly from a satisfaction level, yeah, it’s better. People are likely to want that. But in business, if you’re selling something, and somebody comes to you and they have something very specific they want to buy, and you have something that would be complimentary to that, or something that would go with that really well and would increase the value to the buyer, then you kind of owe it to them to at least ask them if they’re interested in that. Jay: Mm, I love that. I love that idea that if you are feeling uncomfortable, maybe you should ask yourself why. And how do you feel about your product? Are you really providing a value to them or are you just trying to sell something and get a paycheck, right? And I think we all have to ask that question about our own careers and what we’re doing and what we’re selling. But, you know, if you can just feel great that what you’re providing them is going to improve their situation, then you’re just passionate about what you’re doing and that’s going to come through. David: Yeah. So when you are talking to somebody like that, if you’ve got something that is actually going to be a benefit to them, if it’s going to help them, then it’s a lot easier to do it. So that really just boils down to motives. What is the motive? And unfortunately, I think sometimes managers, like in the situation you described in the fast food restaurant, the manager says, “just do this. Ask them if they want this. Push it, push it, push it. Sell, sell, sell.” When instead, if the manager had said to you, Hey, listen, when people come in here, they’re hungry. They want something good. You know, they’ve ordered this, they’ve ordered that other thing, so they might want it and maybe they didn’t think of it. You might want to suggest that. Maybe they want dessert, maybe they want an apple pie at the end, right? Jay: Mm-hmm. David: Apple pie. I’m saying yes to an apple pie, right? And if you don’t ask, you don’t get, and it’s very easy for them to say no. Now, there are situations, and I’ve heard it referred to, particularly in online situations, where there are online upsells where you buy something and then it asks you if you want to buy this and you want to buy that and you want to buy this. Yeah, I’ve heard people refer to that as upsell hell. Now, if you get somebody involved in that, then that’s not good. But if you make a recommendation that makes sense for them, then I think there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. I also have heard this, you know, back to the fast food example, when the person who’s embarrassed to do it, they say, my manager wants me to ask you if you, and I’m like, oh, that’s just the worst situation. But I think, you know, I’ve also had like servers say, ” you should try this because it’s really good.” David: Yeah. Jay: And that’s different, right? That doesn’t sound like an upsell. That doesn’t feel like an upsell. So how you go about it, and are you passionate about it? Do you really believe that? David: Right. Jay: That makes all the difference. David: When my son was traveling, he was in Italy with some of his friends and they went out for dinner one night and they went into this restaurant and the waiter was very happy to see them. Americans there to spend money, and the waiter came over to take for order and one of the guys ordered chicken and he said, “no, no, no, no. You don’t want the chicken. It’s terrible here, get the steak,” right? Now there’s an example of an upsell, I guess. Jay: Yeah, David: Upsold them from the chicken to the steak. The steak was a lot more expensive. Was the chicken there really terrible? I have no idea. But he presented it in a way that made them think, all right, I’ll get the steak. And it was entertaining, too. So I think there are ways of engaging in this type of behavior where if it’s not manipulative, and it actually gets them a better result than you might as well do it. You know, another thing I think that people should consider is that when it comes to upsells and cross cells, it’s not something that always just has to take place at the immediate point of purchase. I mean, obviously that’s a great time to do it, but if someone buys something from you… in the promotional products industry, I mean the, examples are kind of easy. Somebody buys t-shirts or sweatshirts, “want caps with that,” right? Would be the equivalent of french fries. And you can ask and they can say yes or they can say no, whatever it is. But if you don’t do it at the point of sale, you could contact them back maybe a few weeks, a month later. Hey, I just wanted to let you know we just got this new product in. I think it would go perfectly with those shirts you got. Would you be interested in having a look at that? Right? And that’s an example of an upsell or a cross-sell that could take place later. So it’s not like, If you didn’t do it the first time, you can never do it again. There are plenty of opportunities to do that throughout the sales cycle. Jay: Yeah, I agree. And the other thing, I’ve seen some research and it’s something that I’ve implemented that has helped me get over the upsell thing, is that research that I’ve seen shows that the time when people are most willing to spend more with you is when they just spent with you. And that seems counterintuitive, right? Like, I just got this money out of you. You just spent money and you’re willing to spend more. That doesn’t feel exactly right. David: Yeah, but again, if you go back to the fast food example, it does make perfect sense. I’m getting this and I’m getting that. Do I want this too? Yeah, sure, why not? So there is that aspect of it. Now, outside the fast food example, it might not be quite as obvious and there might not be as much of a connection. But once again, I think if we get beyond the idea of selling product, and we get more into the idea of satisfying the customer, what is the customer looking to get from this experience? So in a promotional products example, am I looking to buy shirts? Not so much. I’m looking to buy awareness of my business. Maybe I’m looking to have people wear this thing and have people see it and recognize my business. Perhaps I’m looking for a sense of affinity, that the people who wear it feel good about my company. So there are very deep things that I could be looking for in this purchase. And so if I’m able to connect my additional recommendations, my upsells and my cross cells to those types of things, the things that motivated them to want to do it in the first place, then they’re going to be a lot more likely to say yes. But they’re also going to be a lot more likely to appreciate the fact that you thought about what they actually want and you’re trying to deliver it to them. Jay: Yeah, and then you’re avoiding that salesperson feeling and you’re more like a consultant, as we’ve talked about so many times in these podcasts. I think the other thing that you have to remember, just from a pure business standpoint, we talk about customer acquisition costs a lot, and if you can upsell somebody, That’s product on top of your initial acquisition cost. And then if you can cross-sell them, take your existing lead database and cross-sell them into other products, that by far is a better way to do business than constantly having to find new customers and always paying that cost to get those new customers in the door. David: Yeah, absolutely. One of the other things that we’ve done in our training is also suggesting to salespeople that when they’re recommending a product to the customer, you don’t always have to recommend the lowest priced option. Now, there are a lot of customers who are like, I just want the cheapest, I want the cheapest thing. But a lot of times the cheapest thing is not the best option. It’s going to fall apart, or the logos are going to rub off, or it’s not going to be the best thing. So another thing we can do, and this isn’t really related to upselling or cross-selling, but one of the things you can do is you can start out offering something that has a higher value that is a, a better product, a more high-end product, and let them say to you, “no, I want something cheaper.” Right? Because if you don’t do that, and you’re successful in selling them the cheapest thing, congratulations. You could have had this better sale and the customer could have had a better product. So that’s, as I said, not directly related to upselling and cross selling, but when you’re thinking in terms of, “well, what would I do or what would I like?” A lot of times we are more sensitive about other people’s money than they are. And we’re more likely to recommend something that’s cheap, just for the sake of getting the sale, rather than thinking what’s going to serve this person best in terms of what they’re looking to accomplish. Jay: Yeah, I think that’s a great line, that we’re more concerned about their money than they are. Again, looking at research and looking at our own behavior, I think sometimes we feel that if it costs more, it’s going to be better. If it’s cheap, it’s going to be worse. So oftentimes charging a premium, or at least giving them that option, makes them feel like they’re getting something of value. And I’ve seen situations where people didn’t sell very much of a product at a really low price point. So what did they do? Instead of lowering it, they raised it and it actually brought in more sales. There’s a lot of psychology involved in this, but it’s absolutely true and I think the bottom line, if you don’t ask, it’s not going to happen, right? David: Yeah. And also just to clarify real quickly, because we didn’t do this upfront, when I think in terms of upselling versus cross-selling, what’s the difference? Upselling to me means selling a better or a higher priced version of the thing that they’re looking at. Whereas cross-selling is making a recommendation of something that’s compatible. So the hamburger to french fries, that would be more of a cross-sell. An upsell would be upselling from a hamburger to a Big Mac, right? Jay: Mm-hmm. David: So you’re getting a bigger, better version of the thing that they were looking at. And so again, we’re talking about this in industries where people are selling, not just behind the counter taking orders. So when you think about that, if somebody is looking at investing in whatever t-shirts, well, maybe they would like to get the heavyweight, hundred percent cotton rather than the promotional weight 50/50. Maybe they would like to get multiple colors on there, that type of thing. That would be an upsell. Whereas a cross sell would be, you know, want caps, that type of thing. Jay: Yeah. Yeah. And just talking about promotional products, I can tell a difference when it’s a nice shirt or when it’s just like the cheapest. And so that’s some way that I could use to upsell somebody. Because if you’re putting your name and your logo on it, and it’s not very good quality, you’re sending a message, right? And so that’s a way that I think you can help people understand that it’s important that they consider those types of things. David: Yes. And one thing that you will find out for sure is that if you’re selling promotional products and you sell something cheap to a customer and they buy it and it’s not good, they’re not going to blame themselves. They’re going to say, why did you sell me this shirt? Well, you told me you wanted something cheap. Well, not that cheap. Not so cheap that it is going to be terrible. Oh, I didn’t know. Right? So… Jay: That goes back to the don’t buy the chicken, it’s terrible. Get the steak. Right? David: Exactly. Yeah. Jay: Yeah. Which again, great example, because if I heard that, I’m like, wow, this person cares about me. I’m not thinking, wow, this person wants me to spend more money, right? So it’s all in the attitude and how you convey it. David: Yeah. Jay: All right. How do people find out more? David: Well, you can go to TopSecrets.com/call to schedule a call with myself or my team. We would be happy to walk you through this stuff. If you’re struggling to increase the average value of your orders, if you’re struggling to bring more customers through the door, or you just need somebody to talk to about how to make things better in your business, TopSecrets.com/call, we would love to have that conversation with you. Jay: Well, and I love our conversations, David. Thank you so much for your time today. David: Thank you, Jay. Are You Ready to Integrate Upsells & Cross-Sells to Increase Value and Help Customers? If so, check out a few ways we can help: Just Getting Started? If you (or someone on your team) is just getting started in promotional product sales, learn how we can help. Ready to Grow & Scale Your Business Fast? If you're an established distributor serious about growing your sales and profits now, check out this case study and schedule a call with our team. Need EQP/Preferential Pricing? If you're an established distributor doing a decent volume of sales, click here to get End Quantity Pricing from many of the top supplier lines in the promo industry.

How much time do you spend chasing prospects who will never buy? If somebody is not responsive, you can decide, do I want to continue to pursue this person? Or do I want to leave them to my competitors? Let my competitors chase that person. If they’re disqualified, you don’t have to spend time with them at all. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will discuss the idea of converting more sales: turning leads into customers. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, David. Such a pleasure to be with you. This is kind of the secret sauce, right? I mean, if we could all increase our conversion rates and bring down our customer acquisition costs that’s where the rubber meets the road. David: Yeah, in a lot of cases it’s a really critical part of it. I think some people make a mistake upfront when it comes to conversion. They want to try to convert everyone. You know, they just meet somebody for the first time and they immediately go into sales mode. And I think that they can really save themselves and other people a lot of time and a lot of aggravation if they actually start where it really should begin with a little bit of qualification. Trying to find out if they have the need, the desire, the money, the budget, the willingness to spend, those kind of things. Because a lot of times there are salespeople who will spend weeks, months, years pursuing somebody, just to find out once they get an appointment with them that they weren’t qualified to buy to begin with. And you can eliminate that right up front. Save yourself a world of heartache. Jay: Yeah, I love this point, David. I can’t tell you I’ve had this happen, you know, I’m on the phone with somebody and talking about the product and things like that, and then after asking some questions, I realize this is not a good fit. I don’t have the services they’re looking for. And I could have saved us both a lot of time if I had done a little pre-qualification before we got started. David: Yeah. Or if that’s happening on the first call, then you’re pretty good at that point. But literally, I know there are people who have gone to networking functions for a long period of time, and they’re talking to people and trying to get them to agree to an appointment, and then they finally agree to the appointment, and then you get out there and you’re talking to them. I had this experience myself early in my career. I’ll never forget it. There was this guy and I thought he was going to be a great prospect, so I tried to get an appointment with him. He agreed to the appointment. I showed up at his place. His place was a dump and he didn’t show up for the appointment, and I was sitting there looking around and I was thinking, “okay, why am I here?” And so a little bit of diligence upfront and a little bit of qualifying goes a long way. Jay: Yeah, I agree. And I also think technology can do a lot of that pre-qualifying, right? We had the experience where our Google ad buy was not targeting the right people. And so I was getting all these calls and I’m like, “wow, look at these leads we’re getting.” And it turned out I was just wasting time. So I’m wasting money on the Google ad buy. And then I’m wasting money fielding all of these calls. That’s just, you’re spinning your wheels at that point. David: Yeah, absolutely. And when you think about it, pitching unqualified prospects is the single biggest time waster on the planet. So if we can avoid that, we’re going to be a lot better off. Jay: Yeah. I think there’s a tendency though to think, “oh, we can sell anybody.” Or I think the other side of that is if you’re not pre-qualifying, then you don’t have a really good idea of how effective you are as a salesperson, because you’re comparing it to every person you talked to. Like, I’ve talked to a hundred people, my close rate was 20%. Well, if 5% of those were never going to be a lead for you, or never going to be a customer, then you’re not really using accurate numbers. Right? David: Yeah, exactly. Everything’s skewed when you’re doing it that way. So, I mean, I believe qualification upfront is really important and systematic follow up is another thing. If you’re not following up systematically with people, which means that you are in touch with them at the times when you need to be in touch with them, then you’re also going to be at a big disadvantage. Jay: Yeah. and that’s really an area where I struggled a long time ago, and that is if I didn’t get them right away, then I’m going to move on to the next person. David: Mm-hmm. Jay: And like you said, it’s about relationships. And again, I love technology that can do a lot of this stuff for you, drip campaigns and those kind of things. David: Right. Jay: But because somebody down the road, they don’t need you now, that doesn’t mean they’re not going to need you in the future. David: Yeah, and so if you’ve qualified them and you know that they would still be a good prospect for what you’re selling, then at that point you want to make sure that you’ve got something in place, whether it’s inside a crm, however it is that you’re doing, so that you know that you are in touch with them until they’re ready to buy from you. And when we talk about systematic follow up, it goes far beyond the, “are we there yet” approach that a lot of people take where it’s like when you’re traveling in a car with small kids and they keep saying, “are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?” And there are some salespeople who do that. They just call and say, “Hey, you want to buy, you ready to buy? You ready to buy? Are we there yet?” And that’s not what I mean by systematic and or strategic follow up. Jay: Yeah. I think part of that is you start to seem desperate, right? And I think what we need to avoid, and I’m really learning this, is the feeling that I’m a salesperson and they’re a potential lead. If they feel like I’m a salesperson, then I’ve already lost kind of the battle, right? So, whereas if I’m a consultant, if I’m somebody who can help them grow, if I’m somebody who they have a relationship with, who they feel really cares about them, then that’s a real advantage. But if they just feel like this is sales to potential client relationship, that’s a much harder road to go down. David: It definitely is. And when we think about it, you know, once you’ve qualified somebody and you’ve got your follow up in place and you’re interacting with them. You know, part of the deal then is persuasion. You know, what are we saying that is going to entice this person to want to move forward? Essentially, are we hitting their hot buttons? What are their hot buttons? What are the things that are motivating them to either take action or not take action? Because if you’re not doing that, once again, you’re going to have a lot of difficulty converting. Jay: Hmm. Yeah. This kind of goes back to the pre-qualifying you talked about. You’re not just finding out if they’re a fit for your product. You’re finding out what their specific needs are. Because how often have you been in or anybody been involved in. I’m pitching a sales strategy to them and it doesn’t meet their needs. And what I’ve done is I’ve conveyed to them that I didn’t listen or that I don’t know their business. There’s nothing worse, in my opinion, if somebody’s trying to sell me something and they haven’t taken the time to really figure out who I am, what my needs are, what is my business model? That can really be a detractor to the process. You can lose the sale if you are going down the wrong path. David: Yeah, you definitely need to keep it focused on them. A lot of times we make the mistake of talking about ourselves and our product and our capabilities and how great we are and it’s like, you’ve lost me at hello. When you do that. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. And I’ve been there like with somebody else and we walked in the door and we were both supposed to be part of the sales process and before there’s even a hello, they’re like diving into the product and opening the book and this is what we have and what we have. And. I’m just like you got to at least take a few minutes to set some baseline relationship and ask some questions and pre-qualify even there, if you’ve pre-qualified them before you’ve arrived. I think that pre-qualify is really, I think there is a pre part, but there’s a constant requalifying that happens as you go along. David: Absolutely, and people are constantly cycling through the five levels of qualification. Sometimes they’re ready to buy right now. Other people have specific dates in mind. Still others are open to it. They’re generally receptive. Sometimes they’re disqualified, and sometimes they’ll just ghost you. They’re just unresponsive. When you recognize that they’re five essential levels, then you know exactly how to follow up with each one, and it becomes a lot more systematic. Jay: Yeah, and I love that you’ve broken these things down into different levels. Because that makes it really easy to classify. And that’s the problem is you may have a sense that you want to do this, but you really don’t know which buckets to put people in. What are those buckets? If you can have a system where you’re not giving a lot of thought, you’re just like, boom, this one goes here, this one goes there, then you can spend more time working on the right buckets, I’m guessing. Right? David: Exactly. Because if somebody is not responsive, you can decide, do I want to continue to pursue this person, or do I want to leave them to my competitors? Let my competitors chase that person. If they’re disqualified, you don’t have to spend time with them at all. But if you focus on those first three buckets, the ones who are ready now, the ones who have specific dates and the ones who are generally receptive, you’re going to be a lot better off. Now the ones who are generally receptive. The goal there is then to find out, well, when are they planning on moving forward? When will they be ready to buy? And a good way to do that is through sequencing, which would be another step in this process is to say, we’re going to put out a series of communications, drip campaign, whatever you want to call it, that is designed to be in front of them when they’re ready to buy. Even if we don’t know exactly when that’s going to be. Jay: Yeah, because that can be hard to project. I mean, I know with promotional products there’s a seasonality, but it could also be based upon their product releases, right? They’ve got a new piece of software coming out, or they’ve got a new special or something like that. So it can be very business oriented. They may not know when they need it until the day before. Right? Or the day of, the way I see some people run their businesses. David: That’s true. And there are a lot of times where we’re in touch with someone for a long time and we’re not hearing back from them. And then we sort of give up for a while. We wander off, we do something else, we pursue other people, and then we come back and we find out they bought from someone else.ry Jay: Mm-hmm. David: And it’s cause we didn’t have these sequences of communication in place for the people who are actually worthy of them. Now again, if somebody’s totally ghosting you. then I don’t know that you even want to do that. Because if they’re not going to be responsive to you, when they’re thinking about buying something, how are they going to be when they need to pay their bills, right? Jay: Yeah. Yeah. David: So you need to balance this, but if they seem like a good prospect, if they’ve been qualified upfront, if you have been following up systematically and you’ve been able to determine that there is a good fit, you’ve been able to exercise a little bit of persuasion and keep yourself in front of them, then at that point it could very easily convert into a sale. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. I love this. This is great feedback and great instruction. How do people find out more, David? David: Well, you can go to TopSecrets.com/call, schedule a call with my team. We can walk you through this stuff. If you’re thinking about where you’re stuck, you’re not quite sure where that is, you’d like to have a conversation… TopSecrets.com/call. We would be happy to have that conversation with you. Jay: Well, and I love it. Just sometimes talking about it is important. But there’s not a reason to reinvent the wheel. You’ve got these systems ready, and sometimes that’s just perfect for people, right? David: I was literally talking to someone the other day who’s been in the industry for a really long time, and she was asking a question about what to say when someone says they already have somebody they’re working with. And I was thinking to myself, “you’ve been in this industry a long time, like you need to have an answer for that.” Jay: Yeah. David: And a lot of what we do with our clients is we have this type of stuff in place so that when you get a really common objection, you have a very specific response that you know works. And without that kind of thing, you can be spinning your wheels for a really long time. Jay: Oh yeah. I love that. I love it. David I hope people check it out. And as always, it’s great talking to you. David: You too, Jay. Thank you. Are You Ready to Stop Chasing Prospects Who Will Never Buy from You? If so, check out a few ways we can help you make it happen: Just Getting Started? If you (or someone on your team) is just getting started in promotional product sales, learn how we can help. Ready to Grow & Scale Your Business Fast? If you're an established distributor serious about growing your sales and profits now, check out this case study and schedule a call with our team. Need EQP/Preferential Pricing? If you're an established distributor doing a decent volume of sales, click here to get End Quantity Pricing from many of the top supplier lines in the promo industry.

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GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Join at https://www.functionhealth.com/GENIUS or use gift code GENIUS25 for a $25 credit toward your membership. Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy  If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/  To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you need to get prospects to respond, it’s time to fix your follow-up strategy. Think in terms of what gets your attention, what gets you to respond? What makes you want to respond when someone else is reaching out to you? That can also be a great indicator of what you may want to be saying to the other person to try to get a response from them. Now, they might not respond to exactly the same things that you respond to. But it’s possible they will, and it’s not a bad place to start… David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarlane and I will be discussing why people don’t respond. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you so much David. This is something that frustrates me in the process when I’ve made a good faith effort, I’m expecting a response and I get crickets and it, you know, it’s one of the hardest things to deal with in sales because you got to constantly be remotivation yourself and when you’re not getting a response back, it’s hard to stay motivated. David: It is. And it’s hard to not take it personally sometimes. Even though it’s very rarely personal. It’s hardly ever personal. It’s almost never personal, but it’s still hard to get past that when it’s happening. Jay: Yeah, I I totally agree with you. And again, I think you just kind of have to have that framework that you know it’s going to happen. It’s not personal and you just got to get through those. But I also think that you have to ask yourself some questions and reassess what is our communication system? I’ve found that there are people who will respond via text, but they’re never going to respond via email or they will pick up their phone or they’ll never pick up their phone. So you’re kind of learning, and I keep track of these notes as I’m trying to reach out to people. And if I can get somebody via text, that’s the way I’m going. I just will stop sending that person emails. So, I think learning along the way about each person and their preferred mode of contact is very important. David: Yeah, that is a huge one. such a great point. And I know we’ve talked about this in previous podcasts. We normally talk about it in terms of marketing and sales, but it applies just as much to telephone calls because they’re marketing, they’re sales as well. But we’ve talked in the past about the MVPs of Marketing. What is the marketing message we want to communicate? Which combination of marketing vehicles are we going to use to communicate the message? And who are the people or prospects that we need to reach? And when people are not responding? Well, the P part of it is covered. The people that we’re talking to, the person who’s not responding, that’s the person that we’re talking about. So if they’re not responding, it is either the person themselves, they’re just not going to do it. But if they are still potentially going to be engaged with us, then the reason they’re not responding is usually either the message or the vehicle, like you pointed out. They’re not going to respond to an email, but they very likely will respond to a text. Cool. That’s easy. Okay. Now we’ll communicate via text. They won’t pick up the phone, they won’t return voicemails, but they will respond to text. Great. Once you get something like that nailed down, you’re back in the saddle again. as the old song went. But a lot of times people don’t even think of that because your preferred method of communication might be different than mine. And if mine is to pick up the phone and call you again and again and again and again, which it is not. But if it were, and if your method of communication is text, then you’re not going to respond to me. You’re probably going to get annoyed at what I’m doing and I’m going to be annoyed at the fact that you’re not responding to me. And it’s a simple disconnect that can actually be addressed very quickly. But if somebody is not responding to any of the different methods of communication that you’ve tried, and today there are a lot. If they don’t respond to you on the phone, you can send them a text, you can send them an email, you can message them on social media. You can send them something in the mail. There are lots of different things that you can do. If they’re not responding to any of it, then it’s very likely either the message that you’re communicating to them where they just want to have nothing to do with you, they don’t want to communicate with you at all, or it’s the person themselves, they’re just not going to do it. And for me, it’s very helpful to try to break those things down and when people don’t respond, it’s very discourteous in my opinion. That’s a nice word that I’m using there. It’s very discourteous, and so I try to communicate that to people in as nice a way as I can. Not to say, “Hey, you’re being rude,” but sometimes if I don’t get a response to something, I’ll reply back and I’ll say, Hey, listen, I haven’t heard back from you on this. Please let me know what you’re thinking either way. I would appreciate the courtesy of a reply. And very often just those words, “I would appreciate the courtesy of a reply,” will get some sort of response. Because what it’s saying is you’re not being courteous. But it’s not actually saying that. And so a lot of times people can read that and they can say, “oh yeah, I should reply to this because it isn’t courteous.” But you’re not accusing them. Jay: Yeah. David: So things like that where you can, and I’m not suggesting you just jump right into that, “Hey, you’re being rude.” I’m not suggesting any sort of attack like that. But just pointing out to them that if you’re a professional, you want to be treated like a professional. If I’m going to treat you like a professional, I’d appreciate if you would treat me like a professional. And again, you’re not saying this, you’re not lecturing, but you’re just sort of building in the subtext that if we’re going to work together, let’s work together. If we’re not going to work together, let’s not work together. But let’s just be upfront about it because our time is valuable. Jay: Yeah. And I think that’s more for people. That’s not really a cold calling technique, right? That’s David: No. Jay: After you’ve had some initial conversation, you’ve talked about maybe moving forward, and then suddenly they’re ghosting you. Right? Which is the term that everybody uses now, right? And you’re like, you know, I thought we were moving forward and now, nothing. I’m not getting anything from you. I think that’s when you can send a message like that. Because they’ve occupied your time. Right. And you only have a certain amount of time. Time capital, right? David: Right. Jay: And so, if they’ve taken up that time with you and expressed an interest, and now they’re ghosting you, it isn’t courteous. Because they’re not recognizing or respecting the amount of work and effort that you’ve put into them. So finding ways to communicate that, and I think you have, is a very important part of the process. But I’ll be honest, it’s one that makes me nervous. So… David: Sure, absolutely. And as we talked about at the beginning of this podcast, there may be a lot of reasons they’re not responding. And a lot of it is not personal. They could be very busy, they could be very distracted. It’s possible that they’re rude or obnoxious, but usually it’s not that if you’ve already had some sort of relationship with them. If you’ve had a conversation with them that was meaningful and went somewhere and seemed like you’re on the same page, then it’s usually not that. But they could be very busy or distracted or focused on other things or working under a time deadline. But that’s all about them. So if we sort of go back to what we were talking about in our previous podcast about taking ownership of our results, then we say, okay, well what can we do about it? If we need to get a call back, if we want to get a call back and they’re not responding, can I look at some of these other marketing vehicles? Can I look at the texts? Can I look at the email and see if I can get a response back like that? What can we do? Because, once again, if we just say, “well, they’re ghosting me,” we’re not taking action on our part to correct the situation. Jay: Yeah. Yeah. And one of the other things that I’ve done is oftentimes we’re trying to get through the gatekeeper, you know, because so many people have that gatekeeper. But oftentimes you could go back to the gatekeeper. You’ve gotten through, you’ve spoken to the principal, the one who writes the checks. Now he’s not responding. Sometimes going back to that gatekeeper and saying, Hey I know he is really busy. Do you think you can get me back on his schedule? David: Mm-hmm. Jay: And that’s a way for him to reserve out time for you. He doesn’t even know it’s happening right? But suddenly you appear on the schedule and you’re calling and he’s actually had that time blocked out by the gatekeeper. So that’s one tactic I’ve used in the past. David: It’s a great one. It really is. And also in terms of the messaging, if you think in terms of what gets your attention, what gets you to respond, what makes you want to respond when someone else is reaching out to you, that can also be a great indicator of what you may want to be saying to the other person to try to get a response from them. Now, they might not respond to exactly the same things that you respond to. But it’s possible they will, and it’s not a bad place to start. Another thing that I think it’s important to consider is that there are some cases where the person that you talked to, just doesn’t believe you, They don’t believe you can do what you said you’re going to do. They don’t believe some element of what you told them. And they might not want to tell you that. So in order to sort of reactivate that credibility, sometimes it’s important to follow up with authority kinds of demonstrations. Whether it’s testimonials or a story about a case study or something like that, that would reengage them and have them say, “oh, okay, well yeah, I guess this person actually did do this. They actually are being truthful in what they’re able to do and what they’re not able to do. Yeah, maybe I’ll pick up this discussion.” And then they’re always, you know, the people who are not interested, I’m just not interested and they don’t want to tell you. At which point, you can often find that out in an email. You know, “Hey, if you’re just not interested in this, please let me know. I don’t want to waste another moment of your time or mine.” And I’ve said that a lot. Because it’s true. I don’t want to waste the other person’s time if they’re not interested. I don’t want to waste my time if they’re not interested. That’s respectful of both our times. And sometimes somebody will come back and say, “yeah, I just don’t think it’s the right time,” or I don’t think this, or I don’t think that. At which point you can then respond however you want. Whether it’s to try to reengage and address the specific issue that they put in there, or if it’s to say, okay, yeah, we really don’t have a fit. Let’s call it a day and I’ll move on to the next prospect. So lots of different options there, but it’s important to remember that there’s no one size fits all solution here. Jay: Yeah, I do like the idea of saying, look, if you don’t have time, that’s great. Because I have a ton of other customers that are waiting. What I like about that is the last thing I think any of us want to do is appear desperate. I think once you send that emotion of desperation, you’ve completely lost the battle. And you want to be always from a position of authority and listen, you need me more than I need you, right? And that’s kind of what you’re saying in a very kind way. You know, if it’s not you, I’ve got a hundred people behind you and that may make them feel like, well, his time is precious, so I’m going to get this done. Or you may find that that’s not the right person, and so you can move on. David: Yeah. And it’s particularly important that that is actual, real authority, that it’s true. Because there are people who will take an approach like that and go, “well, you know, you’re missing out more than I am.” And they hang up the phone and they’re like, “oh no.” Jay: Yeah. David: If that’s a situation, I would say you might not want to use it, but if you really do have it dialed in, when you have more prospects than you have time to fulfill on, then it really does become easier to say, “okay, next.” And it’s not personal for that prospect either. It’s like, “okay, hey, I’m really busy.” “You know what? If you’re really busy, if it’s not a good time, if this isn’t a good fit, just say the word, and I’m out of here.” Because life’s too short. Particularly to chase people who are not interested in being caught. I did a lot of that in the early stage of my career and I am never doing it again. Never. Jay: Yeah, and you have to admit it’s gotten harder because people’s phones are now programmed to not accept any calls that they don’t recognize. We’ve got spam filters, we’ve got gatekeepers. It’s getting harder and harder to get through to people, and so we have to get more and more creative in the process. And so once you finally can break through, it’s like getting a fish on the line. You do want to do everything you can to bring that fish in, but sometimes you got to realize it’s not going to happen. David: If it’s a good prospect, that’s absolutely correct. If you talk to somebody and you’re like, “oh, I know I can help this person,” but they either can’t see it or they don’t have the time or they don’t have the desire, it’s frustrating because, you know, hey, look, if I were to help this person, it would help them enormously. I can see exactly how I can bring value to them. And if they don’t see it, and if you can’t allow them to see it, then it’s not going to happen. But that also brings us to the idea that if what we’re saying is not appealing enough, that’s also a big consideration. So it’s one thing if they’re not interested or this or that, but if we haven’t positioned what it is that we’re able to do in a way that is appealing enough that they see the benefits, they see the transformation that could happen, they’re able to visualize a better future with us in it than with us not in it. If you’re able to do those things, then it’s less likely that they’re going to just disappear on you. But if we don’t do a great job of making it that appealing and it needs to be that appealing in order for us to make it that appealing, then they’re going to wander off. Jay: Yeah. And wandering away is absolutely the opposite of what we want them to do. David, how can people find out more? David: Well, you can go to TopSecrets.com/call. Schedule a call with myself or my team. We can walk you through some of the things that you’re dealing with right now, some of the issues that you’re struggling with. If you have trouble getting people to respond to you, it’s very likely related to one of the MVPs and everything that we do with our clients is designed to help them to increase their sales and profits. So we’d love to have that conversation. Just go to TopSecrets.com/call. Well, I know I learned so much from our discussion, so I know that when they call you there’s going to be some great information there. Thank you so much for your time today, David. Thank you, Jay. Are You Serious About Growing Your Business, Starting Now? If so, check out a few ways we help promotional product distributors grow: Just Getting Started? If you (or someone on your team) is just getting started in promotional product sales, learn how we can help. Ready to Grow & Scale Your Business Fast? If you're an established distributor serious about growing your sales and profits now, check out this case study and schedule a call with our team. Need EQP/Preferential Pricing? If you're an established distributor doing a decent volume of sales, click here to get End Quantity Pricing from many of the top supplier lines in the promo industry.

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If our storytelling allows us to build trust, build credibility, and build a bond in sales, then we’re telling the right stories. If it’s just designed to be manipulative, then save your breath. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today’s episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing the power of storytelling in sales. Jay, tell me a story. Jay: Listen, I am a storyteller. I love to tell stories and I like to build when I tell stories, right? This is something that I use on a regular basis when I’m talking to people. And it’s not just telling a story. I think it’s putting people in a story and what character are they in that story? And I think most people want to be the hero in their own story, right? David: They do. Which gets to the whole idea of the hero’s journey, for anyone who follows that sort of story arc. The Hero’s Journey by Joseph Campbell. But it’s a book and it describes essentially the plot of most of the most popular movies of all time. Jay: Yeah, David: Right. Star Wars, Rocky, anything where you’ve got this person who is initially kind of beaten down and not winning. Then they come into contact with a mentor. They learn new things and have a confrontation and it might not go well. Then they learn some more things and then eventually they come out triumphant. There’s a whole arc. And you’re right, a lot of people want to be the hero, and the challenge as a salesperson is, in our storytelling, we can’t be the hero. Mm. Right. We need to make sure that the person we’re talking to is the hero and that we are the mentor or guide. We’re not Luke Skywalker. We have to be Yoda. We have to be the one who’s helping Luke to destroy the Death Star. Jay: Yeah. This is a really hard thing, I think for a lot of people. Because we want to go in and think we’re the hero, right? I’m coming into your business. I’m going to provide something that is going to save the day, and then I’m going to walk away and you’re going to praise me and you’re going to pay me. But that’s not what really is supposed to be happening, right? It’s that I have the tools and the resources that you need to be the hero. David: Yes, and it’s easy to forget that, particularly when we’re trying to read ourselves in as the hero to each story. But one of the things that I’ve noticed in sales is that many, if not most of the very best salespeople are also the best storytellers. You can say. “Hi, do you know what time it is?” And instead of getting the time, you will get a fantastic story that might weave the time into it. Jay: Mm. David: But you’re going off in all kinds of directions, and when they do it right, it’s captivating enough that you sit there and pay attention. Jay: Yeah. But you pointed out “when you do it right.” David: Yes. Jay: Right. so let’s talk about that a little bit. Let’s talk about your feedback on doing it right. David: Well, number one, as we already touched on, it can’t just be all about you. You can’t make the story about yourself. You need to make it about them, and a lot of that upfront comes from finding out about them, which means you’re asking more questions, then you’re answering, hopefully in the early stages. Jay: Yes David: Because customers always just want to know what it’s going to cost upfront, and you don’t generally want to lead off with that. So a lot of our storytelling will actually have to come from the conversations that ensue after we’ve gathered enough information. Jay: Yeah. David: To know what those stories need to be about. If we just go in and we meet somebody for the first time and we start telling them stories, that’s probably not ideal. We need to still initially do some sort of diagnostic upfront to find out what their interests are. Now, of course, a lot of salespeople, they do the whole thing about walking into the office, looking around, oh, I see a big buck hanging up there on the, Jay: mm-hmm. David: On the wall. The person’s a hunter. You start talking to them about hunting, that type of thing. And, it’s very obvious. It works in some situations to break the ice, so you can ask the person. Because the other thing about storytelling is it doesn’t just have to be you telling stories. If you can get the prospect to be telling stories to you, then they’ll be more likely to engage in a longer conversation because most people are more interested in hearing what they have to say versus what somebody else has to say. Jay: Yeah. David: So sometimes you can just let somebody talk for a long time and they feel like they had the best conversation, even though the salesman didn’t say anything at all. Jay: Yeah, I’ve had people like look at the pictures on the wall and stuff, and that can come off as so plastic and so fake. But I do think the most important thing is to get them talking. And the more talking they do and the less talking you do, the better off those things are. If you can get them to be the storyteller and then you can help them improve that story or tell them how that story’s going to get better, that’s the zone where you want to be. David: Yeah, exactly. And I think that a good sales process does that, in the sense that when you’re leading off with intelligent, probing questions that don’t come across as intrusive -it can’t be like you’re giving them the third degree. You got a light shining in their face. Jay: Yeah. David: And you’re trying to get information out of them. It can’t be anything like that. But if you’re asking intelligent, probing questions and you’re finding out about them, they’re going to open up more. And the more they talk, the better it is for you. Another thing that a lot of salespeople do is they mistakenly ask yes or no questions. They ask binary questions instead of open-ended questions. If you ask an open-ended question, they’re likely to talk more, which is going to allow the conversation to flow a lot more organically. They can tell stories. You can then potentially tell some sort of story about something that relates to something they said. Again, keeping it focused on them and what they need and what they’re looking to do. For salespeople, case studies, testimonials, things like that can be good stories as long as they’re not just being forced down people’s throats. If somebody’s talking about a promotion that they did or something that they did in the past that worked well, then you can acknowledge that. “Wow, that’s great. That sounds like that was really amazing. We had a similar situation with a client where this happened or that happened,” and then you can relate with that story. But that also brings up another thing. If somebody tells a story, then you don’t want to try to tell a story that’s designed to sound better than theirs. Mm-hmm. Right? So you don’t want to change gears. But if you can establish some sort of comradery among them by indicating that you’ve had similar experiences, then your stories will go a lot farther. Jay: Yeah. And I think a couple things from my own experience: don’t interrupt. Don’t cut them off. Right? Let them talk. But I think where people really miss out and you know that I interview people for part of my living, right? David: Mm-hmm. Jay: And I’ve been a professional interviewer for 20 years, and I find that the key is not the initial question. Yes, ask open-ended question. That’s very, very important. But the key is always the follow-up question, and that’s where people fall down. They ask the question, they got the person talking, and then they dive into their product spiel, right? If you ask a follow-up question, it shows that you’re listening. It shows that you’re interested. And it will take you places that you never ever thought you could go. Like I have interview s where people send a list of questions and I’m like, just so you know going to ask you follow up questions and we’ll bounce around, and those kind of things. And by the time they’re done, they’re energized and they just feel so appreciated. and it’s because of active listening and good follow up questions. David: Yes. And that is so completely critical in sales. Jay: Yeah. David: People who don’t get that are at a tremendous disadvantage. You know, one of the big advantages of storytelling is that it allows you to potentially infuse emotion into an emotionless conversation. Jay: Mm-hmm. David: A lot of sales conversations are very sort of clinical and product oriented and detail oriented and price oriented, and it’s hard to get somebody into the zone. It’s hard to get them emotionally positive about the idea of buying something without being able to trigger something inside. Otherwise, it’s just a list of details and facts and specifications where if we can get them engaged with how they feel about what the product or service is going to do for them, the end result that they’re getting. What’s the thing that they want to have happen as a result of engaging in this promotion or doing whatever it is that they’re going to do? If they can tell you that and get themselves into a state of enthusiasm over your product, they’re going to be a hundred times more likely to buy it. Jay: Oh yeah, absolutely. I think that the natural fallback for salespeople is to focus on specifications. You know, I’ve been there on the car lot and the guy wants to show me all the specifics and horsepower and all those things. And then I’ve had people talk about, what are my goals and focusing more on my life than on this particular one item. It really shows, you know, more caring and that they’re more interested in me. David: It does, and you also have to be aware of the person you’re talking to. Because sometimes people will hear something like that and they’re like, I don’t want to get into that. Jay: Yeah. David: Just tell me how much it costs, or whatever. Jay: Yeah. David: And for some, that might be a disqualifier, right? Jay: Mm-hmm. David: And for others you say, okay, well I’ll provide the information. I’ll see if this goes anywhere. But a lot of times when people are unwilling to communicate at a deeper level, to me it indicates they’re not a good quality prospect to be interacting with. I was talking with someone earlier today. I had a situation where they booked a strategy session call with us and like had absolutely no idea why they were calling and Jay: mm, David: And so there was a video that they went to, to watch. He hadn’t watched the video and he is, he didn’t know why he was calling. And I said, well, listen, out of respect for your time, why don’t we do this? Take a look at the video, see if it makes sense for us to have a conversation. If it does, we can go back here and regroup. And he said, okay, fine. Right. So the call was over in three or four minutes. Jay: Yeah. David: But it was respectful for both of us. It was respectful of his time. It’s respectful of mine, and I think that all sales conversations need to do that. They need to be respectful of both the prospect and the salesperson. And too often, as salespeople, we feel so sort of humbled or so disadvantaged or whatever it is. we always put the needs of the prospect first. You’ve heard the customer’s always, right. Jay: Yeah. David: Which is not always true. Jay: Agreed. David: But you want to treat them as if it is. Particularly in the early stages, until you find out that it’s not the truth. But in those situations, if you recognize that your time is just as valuable as theirs, we all have a certain number of ticks on the clock. We don’t know what that number is. We want to make sure that we’re spending our time as well as possible, as productively as possible, with the people who are on the same wavelength and who are ready to interact with us. Jay: Yeah. And that goes back to the podcast we did recently about pre-qualifying people and really finding out ahead of time if they really, you know, fit within your business model and those kind of things. But, you know, a lot of times you’re not going to know unless you just start talking to somebody and you start asking them questions and I think if you’re doing this right, it’s not going to feel plastic, it’s not going to feel fake. I have a genuine desire to learn about people and to find out about them. David: Yeah. Jay: And you know, if that’s what you’re doing, they’re going to sense that. If you’re just doing it to, okay, now let’s cut to the chase and let’s get to the details and hopefully I can sell you. They’ll sense that too, David: Right. Yeah. I think that if our storytelling allows us to build trust, Build credibility, build a bond, then we’re telling the right stories. If it’s just designed to distract and be a shiny object to try to get them to tell something. If it’s designed to be manipulative, then save your breath. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. How do people find out more, David? David: You can go to TopSecrets.com/call, schedule a call with myself or my team. There’s actually a video right on that page. What I would encourage you to do, it says at the top right there, before you schedule a call, watch this video. So take a look at that, get an idea of how we’re helping other people, what it does for other people. If it makes sense for you, then you can just scroll down and you can schedule a call and we can work with you essentially to find out where you are now in your business versus where you want to be. We can look at your visibility in the marketplace. How are you doing in terms of visibility, in terms of sales, in terms of profit? And just walk you through a couple of things will allow you to maybe think more clearly in terms of how you can get from where you are now to where you want to be. So it’s TopSecrets.com/call. Love to have a conversation with you. Jay: And I’m sure you’ll tell ’em a great story. David: I just might! Jay: David. It’s always a pleasure. David: Thanks Jay. Are You Ready to Tell More Stories that Lead to Sales? If so, check out a few ways we can help: Just Getting Started? If you (or someone on your team) is just getting started in promotional product sales, learn how we can help. Ready to Grow & Scale Your Business Fast? If you're an established distributor serious about growing your sales and profits now, check out this case study and schedule a call with our team. Need EQP/Preferential Pricing? If you're an established distributor doing a decent volume of sales, click here to get End Quantity Pricing from many of the top supplier lines in the promo industry.

David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will continue our discussion about the AI Approach to Multiply Your Sales. This is part four in our series, and today we'll be talking about learning, segmenting, and the Three Ds. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, thank you so much, David. I really, really enjoyed this. I know I’ve said that in previous podcasts, but it’s true. After each one, I’ve gone into my own business and I’m like, okay, I got to apply this and apply that because these conversations are of such value. So I appreciate your time. I love this. And hopefully it’s been helpful to everybody else. David: I’m glad, I feel the same way, and I’m really looking at this almost like a mini-course. If people were to put together these four episodes and say, “How much of this stuff am I doing in my business?” You can probably implement some things very quickly that can probably help you get some great results. Jay: 100%. David: All right, so let’s do the quick review. And again, what we’re talking about here is we asked AI what will help you to multiply your business because that’s been a focus of our conversations recently. AI came back with some different responses, and then we’re talking about what AI says and how we’re able to help implement those things in business with our clients. And so let’s just recap. Number one was refine your target audience. Number two, develop a compelling value proposition. Number three, optimize your marketing channels. That was our first episode on that topic. In episode two, we covered points four, five, and six. Number four was enhance your customer experience. Number five, implement a referral program. And number six, leverage the power of content marketing. In episode three of this series, we hit utilize upselling and cross selling strategies, which was number seven. Analyze and optimize your sales funnel, which was number eight, and invest in customer relation management software, CRM, which was number nine. Now we’re going to be doing 10, 11, and 12. Eleven and 12 are really bonus because originally I asked it for 10 and then I realized that doesn’t break out well if you’re doing three in a podcast. So I went back to the AI and I said, give me two more. And it did. So we’ll be talking about numbers 11 and 12 in this podcast as well. So number 10 in the list of things that AI says will help you to multiply your sales is: 10: Continuous learning and adaptation. Stay updated with industry trends, attend relevant workshops or conferences, and be open to adapting your sales strategies to meet changing market demands. Well spoken AI! Continuous education. It’s a good call! Jay: It is, and some professions actually require it. But again, that continuous education is often on a service or a specialty or things like that. It’s not really on customer service or the technology or things like that. I feel like in that regard, so many of us are a hamster on a wheel. You know, we’re just trying to keep up with what today is giving us. We’re putting grease on the squeaky wheel and we don’t have time to really think about staying up on, you know, all the latest trends and those kind of things. David: Yeah. And a lot of people just don’t like continuing education, because they feel like so much of it is platitudes. It’s like, I already know this stuff. I already know it, right? But knowing what to do is very different than knowing how to do it. And that’s really what I’ve been trying to differentiate in this series of podcasts is that, yes, these are great statements. Continuous learning. That sounds great. But what are you learning? Are you learning things that you can implement immediately? Are you putting in place processes that will allow you to start getting results right away so you can gauge those results and then adapt, change, or tweak the process as you go to make sure that it’s working for you? So once again, we’re focusing on all the little details that make these general recommendations profitable. Jay: You know, I don’t know where I get it. I think I get it from my dad, but I am on a never ending quest to make things more efficient. I am always looking for the next software, the next device, the next system. I’ve done it since I was 15. My first job was in a burger barn at an amusement park. And I was watching how they put everything on the grill and what they would do is they’d cover the whole grill with burgers And then they would flip them all at the same time, and then they would pull them all off at the same time, and while they’re preparing them, the grill is sitting there empty. And so the line would move, and then it would stop, and I’m like, this is crazy. Put down two rows, wait a second, put down two, put down two, and at 15, I changed the whole thing. I’ve been doing that stuff my whole life, so I I love the tech. I love the next thing. And I’ll spend weeks and months finding the right thing knowing that it’s going to improve my business for years to come. David: Yeah, and that really goes to the point. The words that the AI used , it said continuous learning and adaptation. Jay: Yes. David: And what you’re talking about there is adaptation and implementation. Adapting the system to be able to get the result that you want Jay: Yes. David: So that everything gets better for everybody. Beautiful thing. Jay: Yeah, KPIs, Key Performance Indicators, that’s kind of what we use nowadays. And we’ve talked about this in previous podcasts, understanding every aspect of your business and knowing how you can influence it and adapt it. Because you can’t adapt, if you don’t know the reality of what’s going on. And I’ve worked for so many companies where management has no clue what’s happening on the front lines. And so we’re asking them, we’re begging them to adapt. Or they have software built by engineers who aren’t on the front line and we’re pulling our hair out because it doesn’t answer any questions. It makes life harder for us. David: Right. And unfortunately, a lot of it boils down to not knowing what to do and not knowing how to do it. “Yes, this is a problem, but I don’t know how to fix it. I don’t have time to think about how to fix it. Therefore, soldier on, keep moving, keep working. Good luck with that.” And so much of this, and even this point, continuous learning and adaptation is about identifying those small hinges that swing the big doors. And so much of what we do with our clients is about doing just that. Finding what is a small and obvious fix to a problem that could have been plaguing a company for literally months or years. You fix it in 10 minutes with a one sheet piece of paper that says, “Do it this way,” and they implement it, and they immediately start to see better results. So, I think in terms of, okay, this is what AI suggests, this is how we end up getting it done. So that’s number 10, continuous learning and adaptation. 11. Targeted Marketing Campaigns. Develop targeted marketing strategies tailored to specific customer segments. This approach ensures that your marketing efforts resonate deeply with your intended audience, leading to higher conversion rates. Once again, a lot of buzzwords in that sentence. A lot of really good recommendations in that sentence, but a lot of confusion too. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. Can I brag for a minute? David: Please do. Jay: I want to brag for a minute. So a lot of people know that I’ve just recently started an accounting firm that focuses on day traders and they’re taxes. And we’ve spent over a year and a half with my current company and my last company working on keywords to make sure we get the right leads from Google advertising. And David, in the last four months, I have not had one lead that is not right in the strike zone. Now, think about that. Think, I mean, that is unbelievable to me. That, and they, you know, we’re in constant contact with the company that we use. And every month they’re like, okay, how many leads were outside? What do we need to adjust? And I’m like, just keep pitching ’em, man, because they are right there. And the beauty of that is, all we have to do is adjust the volume. Right? Certain times of the year we crank that volume up, and certain times of the year we crank it down. And, wow! When we have the secret sauce, I mean, everything else is just gravy at that point. David: Exactly. And what you’re talking about really ties back to point three, earlier in our conversation, which is about optimizing your marketing channels. Jay: Right, right. David: When you’re able to do that, and you combine that with what we’re talking about here in number 11, which is targeted marketing campaigns, it’s a double whammy. Because now you are getting to the right people through the stuff that you’re doing with your SEO. And your communication is better, which is something we also talked about in the first episode in this four part series. And now, when you talk about targeted marketing campaigns, to me what that means is you’re taking the communications that we’ve perfected, creating value in the communications like we talked about in a previous episode, and now you’re sequencing that communication. That’s how we describe it to our clients inside our program. You’re sequencing your communication. You’re putting together a series of messages that go out in a specific order, in a specific timeframe, so that you’re getting the information in front of them when they need it most. To me, a targeted marketing campaign is about doing that. You’re getting the right message out to the right people at the right time. Using the right targeted marketing vehicle. Jay: I love that. Sequencing the information. That makes a lot of sense to me. And I think understanding that in first contact, they might not understand your product or the need for it. But we all know if they see you a couple times, you know, what is it? You used to hear they have to see you seven times, you know, a billboard, a TV ad, or whatever that is? Meeting them where they’re at. Instead of trying to force them to be where you want them to be. It sounds to me like a great way to go. David: Yeah, no question. I remember, I think it was in the Guerrilla Marketing book, he was talking about the fact that somebody had to be exposed to your message nine times before they’d be ready to buy. And at that point, I extrapolated for myself. I said, well, what if they only see one out of every three messages I put out? To me, that means I need to do nine times three, 27. I need to get out to them 27 times before they’re going to be ready to make a buying decision. And that’s really the essence of what sequencing communication is. A lot of times we feel the need to try to tell everybody everything up front, before they even know who we are. And their eyes glaze over and like, Oh, this is too much. This person’s too full of hot air. I’m moving on. And when you sequence your communication properly, you’re dripping it out a little bit at a time. You’re giving them a little bit this time and a little more the next time, a little more the following time. And each part of it reveals a different aspect of your approach. A different aspect of the way that you do things, and the benefits that you bring to them. And if number one didn’t completely resonate, maybe number two will, and maybe number four will, and maybe number seven will. And the ones in between, if it’s good, useful information, and it’s creating value for them, they’ll still be happy to see it. They’ll be happy to look at it. But then, when you get to the ones that really resonate with them, they’re going to respond. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. And I love how you said they don’t know who we are, but I would also flip that. We don’t know who they are yet, right? And so, like you said, we’re kind of dividing their possible interest into this sequencing. And hopefully, at some point, we’re going to land on who they are and what their needs are in that moment. David: Exactly. And so much of it really becomes fun when you’re taking an approach like this. And I use the word fun a lot when I’m talking with my clients. Because I figure if what we’re doing is not actually fun, we’re not doing it right. Because if it’s miserable, if it’s a big old slog and we can’t stand it, Let’s face it, they’re not going to do it. But when you’re able to make it fun by taking the appropriate action with the appropriate people at the appropriate time, everything gets a lot easier and a lot more fun. Jay: Absolutely, absolutely. David: All right, so number 12, this is the last one on our list. And this is: 12. Data Driven Decision Making. Leverage data analytics to understand customer behavior, preferences and buying patterns. Data driven insights empower you to make informed decisions, refine your strategies, and optimize sales processes. Many words. Jay: Yeah, and again, how do you extrapolate that out into your own business? I know this is something we work on constantly. I don’t think there’s ever going to be a point where you’re like, “okay, got that one done,” right? It’s got to be constant. David: Yeah, and once again, going back to the idea of simplification, which is a really big part of what we do with people, boiling it down to its essentials. Data driven decision making, to me, and this is what I refer to as the 3 D’s at the beginning of this podcast, data driven decisions, right? To me, that means that you are making your decisions based on the right information, the actual information, not what we think might be right, not what we feel, oh, I feel like I should do this. What does the data say? What’s working well? What are the things that we’ve done in the past that have worked well? What are the things we’ve done in the past that have not worked as well? How can we continue to replicate the things that we did that did well? Do adaptations on those, to be able to continue to move that needle forward. How can we avoid the mistakes that we made in the past based on what we’ve done and the responses that we’ve gotten? To me, that is the essence of data driven decision making. And if you look again at the AI description, leverage data analytics to understand customer behavior. That just means looking at what are the customers doing based on what you’re sending out? Leverage data analytics to understand customer behavior, preferences, and buying patterns. Okay, so that’s all the same. Data driven insights empower you to make informed decisions. Right, your decisions are now informed. They’re not just decisions, right? And then it says, refine your strategies and optimize sales processes. It allows you to do all of that. So, I would argue that this one, data driven decision making, is essentially a combination of all of the above. Because when you’re implementing the things that we talked about over this series of podcasts, and you’re gauging the results, you’re tracking it down, you’ve got the tracking sheets or however it is that you’re keeping track of what’s going on, and you’re making the decisions based on, not what you think is going to work or what you think might work, but what actually is working, everything becomes a lot easier. Jay: Yeah, absolutely. Can I give you a bad example of not using data? David: Sure, I love bad examples!. Jay: So, I worked for a national pizza chain. I’ll give you a hint, Pizza Pizza. Still family owned, even till today. And one day the daughter of the owner came up with this brilliant idea that people wanted bigger pizzas. I don’t know if you remember this. It was called Bigger is Better. So they forced every franchisee to go out and retrofit all of their ovens. Buy new pans. The whole thing probably cost five grand per business to just do this. And they of course marketed behind it. Guess where all those pans are? They’re sitting on top of the walk in refrigerators. Because there was no data, it was not driven by anything more than a feeling. And it was just the most ridiculous effort I’ve ever seen. And that’s some of the problems you can get into with a family run business, because you are making gut feeling decisions instead of looking at the data. David: Yeah, I’d love to say it’s just family run businesses, but wow, New Coke. Two words, right? Jay: Yeah. David: This kind of thing just happens everywhere. And some things just seem like a really good idea. Hey, wow. If they like this one, they’ll probably like that one when you say it out loud. Sure. It seems reasonable. And if the marketing was right and if the people wanted it, then that would have worked, but we just don’t know. So data driven decision making is also a big one. All right. So in terms of sort of wrapping this up, because we’ve been doing this now over a period of four podcasts over four weeks. I feel like we touched on a lot of really good topics. I feel like we were able to dive deep in terms of some of the how, of how to do these things. And I’m hoping that the people who have actually paid attention through each of these episodes got some really solid ideas on specific things they can do to grow their sales and profits. If that’s the case, and if you’d like to have a conversation about how we can help really just Implement this stuff inside your business, go to Topsecrets.com/call. Let’s have a conversation. See if we can help. If we can, we’ll let you know. If we can’t, we’ll let you know that too. There is zero pressure on these calls. It’s about identifying the primary areas where you need help, providing recommendations on what you can do and how you can do it, and then saying, all right, if you want to do it by yourself, you can do that. If you want to do it with us, you can do that, but you have the option. So hopefully that makes sense. And if you’d like to do it, TopSecrets.com/call. Jay: Yeah, I love it. And I’ll just kind of add my feedback on this series of podcasts. I’ve learned a tremendous amount. I’ve applied a bunch. But one of the things that stands out to me, is that you don’t have to do it alone. And I think sometimes we see it as weakness, right? I should be able to run this all. I should be able to do it all. Yeah, maybe, maybe. But there are people who have gone before you. There are people who’ve spent, David, how many years have you spent doing this and refining this and, and talking to customers? So, I mean, it’s just a great service. Again, just speaking out loud about it has made such a difference for me. So, I’m a huge fan of what you do and I hope people will recognize your sincerity, that it is just a call, and you do have a very strong desire to help. And you help a lot of people. David: Well, thank you. And we never try to push anyone into our programs. All we’re looking to do is we’re looking for the right fit. If you are a smart, focused, motivated business owner, and you are determined to get from here to there, then we probably want to work together. If you’re not good with making decisions, if you’re kind of iffy or wishy washy, then it’s probably not going to be a good fit. And in many of the calls, we can get two thirds of the way through the call and recognize pretty early on it’s not a good fit. At which point we’ll say, yeah, I don’t think we can help you. You know, maybe you can try this resource or that resource. So, it’s really not about us trying to sell you into anything. If we can work together, great. If we can’t, that’s perfectly fine too because we’ll know, right? We’ll have the conversation, and we’ll both know! You’ll know, “oh, it’s not a good fit,” I’ll know, it’s not a good fit. And you get closure, which is beautiful. If you’ve been thinking about scheduling a call and just haven’t, there’s no closure, right? Have the call. It’ll be a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Either way, it’s great. You’ll have a great experience. We’ll have a great conversation, and I hope you do it. Jay: Yeah, and listen, there’s no reason to be a salesperson when your product is great, and yours is. So, David, I love our conversations, and thank you so much for your time today. David: Thank you, Jay. Ready to Multiply Your Sales? If so, check out the five primary ways we help promotional product distributors grow: Just Getting Started? If you (or someone on your team) is just getting started in promotional products sales, learn how we can help. Need Clients Now? If you're already grounded in the essentials of promotional product sales and just need to get clients now, click here. Want EQP/Preferential Pricing? Are you an established industry veteran doing a significant volume of sales? If so, click here to get End Quantity Pricing from many of the top supplier lines in the promo industry. Time to Hire Salespeople? If you want to hire others to grow your promo sales, click here. Ready to Dominate Your Market? If you're serious about creating top-of-mind-awareness with the very best prospects in your market, schedule a one-on-one Strategy Session here.

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David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co-host Jay McFarland and I will continue our discussion about the AI Approach to Multiply Your Sales. This is episode three in our series, and it's about upselling, sales funnels, and your CRM. David: Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Thank you, David. This has been fascinating for me as I look at what AI recommends. And even just apply some of those basics to my own business but also realizing that these are kind of general, and figuring out how to apply them to everybody's individual circumstances is no easy feat. David: Exactly. And one of the things that I've really liked about this series is having the opportunity to talk about the "how" of a lot of this stuff, because as business owners, as salespeople, we've heard these recommendations forever. But the question is always, "well, how do you go about doing it?" And so what I've been trying to do in this series is to say, okay, here's the general what you ought to do, but then there's the, how do you go about doing it? And this is exactly what we help our clients with. So it's been really fun for me to be able to go through these and say, okay, there are probably lots of ways to do these things, but this is how we do it. Because our goal is to simplify it for our clients. So you don't have to say, Oh, well, should I do this? Should I do that? Should I do this? It's like, okay. Implement this, gauge the results, see how it goes, report back, if we need to tweak it, if we need to do something different, we can, but you have an instant starting point, and that allows you to get actions taken, get results back quickly, and then be able to adapt as you go. Jay: Yeah, I love that, that you're able to kind of cut through all of the noise out there because there's so much noise, and help them identify for their individual situation what they need because they may have asked AI and we have some of those lists here and items from AI, but again, it's just a starting point. David: Exactly. So let's take a look at the things that we already discussed in the previous episodes. And once again, what we're doing here is we asked AI, what are the things that will allow us to multiply our sales? It came back with number one, define your target audience. Number two, develop a compelling value proposition. Number three, optimize your marketing channels. We covered that in previous episodes. Number four was enhance your customer experience. Number five was implement a referral program. Number six was leverage and the power of content marketing. So now in this episode, we're going to tackle numbers seven, eight, and nine, which is upselling, sales funnels, and your CRM. So let's get to number seven. 7. Utilize upselling and cross selling strategies: Offer complementary products or services to increase the average transactional value and maximize customer value. What do you think? Jay: Yeah. I mean, it makes a lot of sense. I will tell you this was much easier to grasp in my mind when I was in the restaurant business, right? It's like, you want fries with that? You know, let's make it a value meal. Let's make it a, you know, a combo, whatever. I will tell you, we've spent a lot of time in my current business identifying what are the other things, other products that we can offer that our customers will want, not things that we can shove down their throat, but what other things can we add that they may be looking for because they came to us? David: Yes, exactly. And I think people hear about upselling and cross selling and they're like, Oh yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Most people are familiar with the restaurant, the McDonald's example, "want fries with that." So it makes sense, but it's like, okay, how do I apply that to my business? And one of the ways that we help our clients do that is to identify, okay, well, what does this mean? What is upselling versus cross selling and all that sort of thing? And in a nutshell, the way that I view it, upselling is when you're selling them a better version of the thing that they're considering buying or a more expensive version of the thing that they're considering buying. Cross selling is the idea of "want fries with that." It's okay. You're already getting this. This goes with it. Would you like to do that as well? In the promotional products industry, where I do a lot of my work, cross selling is, "ah, you're buying t shirts, want sweatshirts with that." Or if you're buying sweatshirts, want sweatpants with that, right? Want caps with that. Shirts and caps go together, that type of thing. So, It's pretty simple when we boil it down, and it's even better and it's even easier when we turn it into a process so that everybody knows the words you say when someone is ordering a particular type of product. Jay: Yeah. So I think that there's two steps, right? Identifying what those things are based upon your industry. And I think the key to that, honestly, for me is just listening. Right? I'm on the phone with these people every single day and over time I'm starting to sense, wait a minute, there's an opportunity here that we can fill. But then there is the implementation of that process, right? If you don't make it a process, if you don't identify it, define it, implement it, and track it, then it's probably not going to happen, or it's not going to be as successful as you would hope. David: Absolutely. I think that a lot of people know that they need to be doing these things, but once again, they're not quite sure exactly how, they don't get a system in place, and as a result, it doesn't happen. And that's going to really apply to all the different points that we're talking about here. Jay: Yeah, I totally agree with you. David: So the next one... 8. Analyze and Optimize Your Sales Funnel: Continuously monitor and analyze your sales funnel to identify areas for improvement and optimize the conversion rates at each stage. That sounds a little complicated. I don't know how you could possibly get more buzzwords into one sentence than that.. Jay: That's what AI likes to do. They like to cram all these big words in there, and you kind of sit back and roll your eyes like, okay, how David: You're really smart. I don't know what you just said, but you sound really, really smart. Jay: Yeah, and how on earth am I going to do that? I will tell you, we've spent almost a year on this, and I don't think we're even close, David. I don't think we're even scratching the surface on this. David: Yeah, and I think you're really not alone. Most people, when they think in terms of optimizing their sales funnel, they immediately think in terms of the tech. Right? What does the tech need to do? What do I need to have the tech do? And, once again, we're all about simplifying things. So when I'm doing work with clients, we first look at, okay, what needs to happen from a human standpoint? What words need to be said to which people at which times? At which intervals? And once you've identified that and you get something in place, you can test it out and see how it works. It's not like you put something in place and it's immediately perfect. But I'll go back to one of the mantras that I say over and over again to prospects and clients all the time. Done is better than perfect. You are far better off getting something reasonably good in place today than something perfect six months from now. Because that's six months worth of missed opportunities and so many people do that and don't even realize they're doing it. Jay: Yeah, I love that. Done is better than perfect because there are perfectionists out there. I also think that people need to recognize that, yeah, it may seem daunting, but if you get it done, and you get it at least defined to some degree, you're gonna save time over the next months and years because it's just gonna become automatic. And if you bring in new people, you're like, this is our system. And so, you know, a lot of that kind of haphazard nature will go away. And you'll have more time, not less time. David: Exactly. Another thing that we do in our approach, I look at a statement like that, analyze and optimize your sales funnel. And I just think of it in terms of the things that have to happen. If you send out a hundred emails, how many people reply? And of the people who reply, how many of them are ready to buy now? How many have specific dates in mind? How many are generally receptive? How many are rude, obnoxious, belligerent, disqualified? And how many don't reply at all? Because then it becomes process of elimination. If I send out a hundred emails and I hear back from seven people, that means that there's a hundred minus seven people that so far have been unresponsive. So the next message that I send to them can be designed to pull them in. It can reference the previous message and we can get more juice out of the fruit. Jay: Yeah, I love that. More juice, but also, that seven that you've spoken to, maybe you made customers out of two. What about the other five? What is your continuing message to those people? How do you stay in touch? You know, you've got to identify each group and how they're going to be handled going forward. And once you've maximized that, I've found it really starts to feed itself. And then it's kind of fun, right? Because I'm dealing with the leads that I got this month, but all of a sudden I get people who call me up and they're like, yeah, we talked three or four months ago, or yeah, we talked two weeks ago. I got your email, and you're like, you know, I didn't have to do anything, because I set up a system to handle that for me. David: Yes, and we have tracking sheets that we use, that we give to our clients to use, so that they can say, alright, I sent out 100 emails, that goes in the one column,

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Shop Mint Unlimited Plans at https://www.mintmobile.com/GENIUS Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/  To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/  To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/  To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to ⁠https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS⁠ for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: ⁠https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/⁠  To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: ⁠https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube⁠ Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: ⁠https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We're going to interact with people who are not ideal clients. But salespeople have trouble when they're afraid to disqualify a prospect. To say, okay, I'm no longer going to follow up with this person. I've always viewed it a little like the game musical chairs that you played as a kid? You have a certain number of people going around, and a certain number of chairs. When the music stops, everybody scrambles to get a chair. If you don't have a chair, you're out, right? I view prospecting that way in some respects. Where you have to, at some point, start to prune the list. You have to start to get rid of the people who are not likely to become clients. If you're afraid to do that, you will continue to leave the same number of people and chairs. Jay: Yes. David: And if none of them are buying, it's not going to work well. David: Hi, and welcome to the podcast. In today's episode, co host Jay McFarland and I will be discussing letting ideal clients know you're alive. Welcome back, Jay. Jay: Hey, so good to be here, David. And I think this is, again, such an interesting topic. I find that I'm so caught up in the daily. I'm taking calls and the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And some of those ideal clients kind of go by the wayside sometimes. David: Yeah. A lot of times we don't even know who they are until we first try to identify them. So, in a sense, the topic itself goes kind of deep. You can't know they're an ideal client until you know they're alive. Then you have to let them know that you're alive. Then you have to determine if they're an ideal client. Jay: Yeah. David: So there are actually a few steps in this. Jay: Yeah, and I think that's such an important thing to know. You need to have a system, like you always have, of identifying those ideal clients. It's hard for me to really figure out if they're ideal up front. But I'll tell you one thing I can tell is when they're not ideal. I was on the phone call with somebody yesterday. He's going to become a client. But I regret the relationship I know I'm going to have with him, because he's already so demanding. And I'm like, this guy's not ideal, but he's a customer. And so, how can I not sell him the product? David: Yeah, that's a great question. And it's harder for some than others, I think. You get to a certain point in your business or a certain point in your career or whatever and you weigh it. Well, I guess we all do that. We have to weigh it. How much of a pain is this person going to be? And what's my tolerance for pain essentially, right? Jay: Yeah. Yeah. David: But you're exactly right. You don't really know that necessarily upfront. So a lot of times when we're working with our clients, what we'll do is start with the people they think are likely to be their ideal clients. And whether that means in a certain geographic area or in a particular industry or in a certain sized company, if they're selling B2B, You can make some initial judgments based on who has been a good client for you in the past, and then say, okay, how can I get more people like that? And then when you're introducing yourself to those people who meet those similar criteria, as you're having those conversations, you can then start to make those determinations about whether or not they are an ideal client, or if they just sort of fall in that general ecosphere of people who could potentially be ideal clients, but maybe aren't. Jay: Yeah, exactly. And not just finding new ideal clients, turning your existing ideal clients into more business. Because if they were ideal the first time, if you can keep that to be a generating ongoing revenue source and relationship... Man, I'd rather do that every day than deal with the other type of customer. David: Yeah, no question. And when you get to the topic we started out with, which is letting ideal clients know you're alive, that does go for your ideal clients as well.

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to ⁠https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS⁠ for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: ⁠https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/⁠  To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: ⁠https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube⁠ Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: ⁠https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/  To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David: Hi, and welcome back to today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist and I discuss the lead quality matrix. Welcome back, Kevin. Kevin: Good to be here. Excited to chat about this, because I don't know what you're talking about. Kevin: So what is this lead quality matrix and why is it important? David: Well, a lot of times in my work with clients, we're talking about leads. "I need more leads" and "I got to get more leads," everybody's always talking about leads, which is very important. But as we're getting these leads in the door, sometimes it's a good idea to say, "okay, well who do I actually want to bring in?" Now, in our work with clients, we are very big on qualification. We want to make sure that the leads that we bring in are being qualified as quickly as possible. Because if they're not qualified, we don't really want to spend a whole lot of time interacting with them. So when we're bringing new leads through the door, obviously we're going to try to disqualify the not so great ones in the early stages. But also when we're putting stuff out into the market, whether it's a social media post or an email or we're meeting somebody for the first time at a networking function, whatever it is, we want to try to get an idea of the quality of the lead as early in the process as possible. When I talk about the lead quality matrix, if you just sort of imagine a graph. And going across the bottom is Willingness to Communicate. Are they willing to communicate? And so the farther you go to the right, the more willing they are to communicate with you and then going up and down is money to spend. Do they have money to spend? If they have a lot of money to spend, that goes up. If they don't, it's at the bottom. So if you think of that as being the matrix. You start off in the lower left hand corner, you've got people who have no money to spend who are not communicative. That's kind of easy, right? Kevin: Yeah. Those aren't ideal. David: Right. We know what we're doing with those people. We're going to jettison them as soon as humanly possible. In the upper right, we have those who are highly communicative and who have money to spend. So what do we call those people? Like ideal clients, I would say, right, high quality leads. This is the sweet spot. This is where I want to be. This is what I'm looking for, right? Kevin: Right. David: So that's kind of obvious. What's less obvious, and in some ways more interesting is the other corners, right? If you look at some of the other corners and you say, okay here are a bunch of people who are extremely communicative. They'll communicate all day, they'll talk to you till they're blue in the face, but they have no money to spend. Huge time wasters. Many people will go to networking functions and talk to people like this for hours on end, weeks at a time, because they never take the time to just do the simple math on it and say, okay, highly communicative, unable to spend. So that's an interesting group of people. Then we have the other extreme, which is people who have a lot of money to spend, but they're just not talking to you. So if they have a lot of money to spend, if it's a big client, big company, very self-important, but they won't return your phone calls, and they won't talk to you... You decide how long you want to deal with that sort of thing. Kevin: Yeah. David: And those are just the four most extreme points. But it really is obvious when you look at it like that. Kevin: And we've all chased the white whale or whatever that has all the money and you're wanting it so bad to get them as a client. Because you know it'll be lucrative. But I don't know. Those people tend to be very difficult to deal with too if you finally do land them. David: Well, yeah, particularly if they're not communicative. I mean, we could do another grid, that has good people, bad people, right? It's a similar kind of thing. Yeah.

Get 10% OFF your order at https://www.ridge.com by using code BRAIN at checkout, today! GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Arguing with reality in business is a huge waste of time. If you've got clients who are in that head space where they're sort of scared, they're not quite sure what to do next. If you call them and you're in that same head space, then you're not helpful to them. But if you call them with some thoughts or ideas on how you can help them to accomplish the things they want to accomplish, now you have value, and they're going to be happy to talk to you. They're going to want to talk to you because they understand that you may have the solution to some of the problems they're facing. David: Hi, and welcome back. In today's episode, co-host Kevin Rosenquist, and I ask the question, are you stuck arguing with reality? Welcome back, Kevin. Kevin: Good to see you, David. Normally, I feel like I'm stuck arguing with virtual reality these days. With Chat GPT or the like. What are we talking about when you say "argue with reality?" David: We touched on this in a previous podcast, and it's a quote that I heard from Byron Katie. She wrote a book called Loving What Is, and she had this quote in there where she said, "Whenever I argue with reality, I lose, but only 100% of the time." And I loved that quote because it just seemed so completely true. Anytime we argue with whatever is actually happening, whatever's going on in the world, whenever we argue with that reality, we lose. And if you go to social media, any social media platform, you will find millions of people, every day, arguing with reality. They'll be talking about things they have no control over, that they wish weren't the case. And you can waste so much life doing this, that I thought it would be good for us to have a conversation about it. Kevin: Well, we talked a little bit about controlling what you can control and accepting what you can't control, so it kind of fits into the same category. And it feels like we tend to resist what's happening, instead of adapting to it. Is that fair to say? David: Yeah. I think a lot of people do that, and not that we're even doing it intentionally. A lot of times we don't even consider this idea of what is reality versus what am I looking at on a day-to-day basis? We tend to go into experiences, whether it's conversations with people, whether it's posting something on social media or replying to someone on social media, doing any of these things, and we just feel like we're having a conversation and we don't necessarily take into consideration what are the things that are just real and true, that I might be arguing against, right? Kevin: Mm-hmm. David: So when people go online, particularly now, and they're on there and they're talking about tariffs and all the terrible things that are going to be happening to their business, I look at that and I'm like, okay, well, the tariffs, that's true. The uncertainty in the market, that's true. Everyone is dealing with that. But if I talk about that without looking for solutions, without looking for the ways to get around those problems, then why am I even doing it? Isn't that not just wasting time, but wasting our lives and other people's lives? Kevin: Mm-hmm. What other ways, you know, we mentioned tariffs, there's plenty of big stuff out there that's happening that affects the business world. But as far as, you know, just getting into the sales process, the business process, what other ways do you find that people argue with reality? David: Ghosting. Sales in general? Cold calling. I mean, every aspect of sales requires us to deal with different aspects of reality every single time. Right? "These people won't call me back." Okay. That may be a reality with those people. Another part of reality though, is that there are people who will call you back. There are prospects who are responsive. There are people who need to buy your products and services right now. All of those things are also true.

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As the property management industry continues to evolve, it's important to stay up to date on the latest innovations in technology. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with David Normand from Vendoroo to talk about AI's role in the future of property management. You'll Learn [01:29] The AI Revolution [08:47] The Importance of Empathy and Human Touch [22:21] Decreasing the Cost of Maintenance Coordination [32:29] New Features Coming to Vendoroo Quotables “As any property manager believes, we know how to do it the best.” “If you're not reading articles and studying up on this, I think that's going to catch you by surprise pretty quickly.” “Empathy is the magic lubrication that makes everything better.” “Empathetic reflection and empathy is a magical ingredient.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript [00:00:00] David: If you're not building AI tools from working with your partners, from being on the ground floor with them and using the data and building tools based upon the data and their pain points and their failures, buyer beware. If somebody's coming to you and saying, Hey, we figured this all out in the lab. [00:00:14] David: Come use it. Yeah. Right. Buyer beware. [00:00:18] Jason: All right. Welcome property management entrepreneurs to the DoorGrow Show or the Property Management Growth podcast. I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive group coaching mastermind for residential property management entrepreneurs. We've been doing this for over a decade and a half. [00:00:39] Jason: I've brought innovative strategies and optimizations to the property management industry. I have spoken to thousands of property management companies. I've coached over 600 businesses. I've rebranded over 300 companies like Bar Rescue for property managers, cleaning up their businesses, and we would love to help coach you and support you and your growth. [00:01:01] Jason: We have innovative strategies for building out growth engines, for building out your operational challenges, for helping you figure out how to get to the next level in your business and one of the cool tools that I'm excited to showcase today with my guest here, David Norman, is Vendoroo. We've had you on the show before. [00:01:19] Jason: Welcome back David.  [00:01:20] David: Yeah. Thank you for having me. It felt like years ago, it was only about, I think eight months ago since we did this, so much has changed over the time, so it's great to be back. Yeah, it's great to be back.  [00:01:29] Jason: Good to have you. I know you're in the middle of this AI revolution, which AI is just innovating and changing so rapidly. It probably does feel like years ago, so, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been crazy. You guys have made a lot of changes too, so, you even changed your brand name from the last time we had you on the show. Yeah. Which was I think Tulu. Yeah. Right. And so, yeah. So why don't you get us caught up on what's going on 'cause, you know, there's been a lot.  [00:01:55] David: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you first of all for having me here today, Jason, and from the entire Vendoroo group of us, which, you know, the team has grown 10 x over the past eight months, which has been awesome. And I just also wanted to start in thanking everybody from what we call our client partners who have jumped in into this great unknown that is AI and is going to be like, how is this going to work in our industry? And so that's really what we've been focusing on the past eight months. You know, it's been a unbelievable journey of both failures, successes learnings and insights. And ultimately we're getting excited here at the NARPM broker owner which is in Denver to unveil Vendoroo. Like this is the coming out party. And so we're super excited if you're going to be there. We have a massive booth that we have set up that we have the ai alliance with other people that are working in the AI space, and I really hope that you guys come over and check it out. I promise this. [00:02:53] David: You'll never see a booth or a display like we have set up. At the NARPM broker owner. So.  [00:02:58] Jason: Now I want to go attend it. Yeah. Just so I can see your booth.  [00:03:01] David: So, let me put it this way. You may see the robot from the Jetsons walking around the booth walking around the NARPM broker owner, so, okay. [00:03:07] David: Yeah. Rosie? Yeah. You may see something like that. So she'll be vacuuming with her apron? Yeah. She'll be doing a little social engagement. It'll be cool. So, okay. Okay.  [00:03:17] Jason: Yeah. Very cool. Yeah, so catch us up on what, like, let's get into the kind of the background and the overview for people that have never heard about Vendoroo and what you guys do and how you got into this. [00:03:29] Jason: Yeah. Give people kind of the backstory. Yeah.  [00:03:31] David: Yeah. Thank you for that. So really the backstory is that, you know, we know of this AI economy that's coming, right? And there was a few of us, you know, I've been in this industry for 18 years. You know, I've managed you know, portfolios of 40,000 doors. [00:03:47] David: I've managed them for governments. You know, I started off with our own property management. Much like you guys. We started off with 80 doors. We grew to 550 doors in four years. So it was exciting to know that technology that was coming that promised duplication because, you know, as any property manager believes, we know how to do it the best, right. [00:04:05] David: And so what we decided to do is to come together and say, Hey, if AI's coming, there's two things that we need to figure out. Number one is how is this going to help us show value in this new industry to this new generation of property owners that is here, that is coming, that has been raised in the technology world too, right? [00:04:25] David: And two, can it actually duplicate our efforts? Can it actually be an employee for us? Right? And I don't care what people are promising about ai, you don't know until you get into what we call like, you know, get into the weeds, you got to get into the trenches. And so that's what we did, right? We went out and we were the guys that grabbed the torch and we said, we are going to take all the risk. [00:04:46] David: We are going to jump into the mix. We're going to ask people to jump onto the bandwagon with us and we're going to figure this out. And oh my gosh, what an unbelievable eight months it has been in learning and insights. And I can't wait to get into all the things that we've learned about the property management industry. [00:05:01] David: But that's really what we've been focusing on here the past eight months, right? So we started off with well hey, can the AI assist the va? Can it turn them into a super va? Is that what it's going to be? And, you know, some people were like, yay. And some people were like nay, you know? And so, and you know, because that human failure still was there, right? [00:05:21] David: And you know, what happens if they left? There was that inconsistency. And then it was like, all right, well what can the AI own? Right? What can it do? What can it perfect? And you know, can AI actually be the last employee that I ever hire? Right. That's really, that's a really cool thing to do. [00:05:39] David: But the property managing community had some really specific demands that they said that if this is going to be the last employee that I've had, it has to do this. And that's what I'm excited about our new technology 'cause it's doing those things. You know? [00:05:52] Jason: Yeah. And now you guys have made some big moves. I know, like I've, I have clients that we've sent over to you and they've shared some incredible stories. Like one client, I think he had 154 units or something like under management, and he said in the first day you're of turning on Vendoroo, like it closed out like 80 something work orders. [00:06:12] Jason: Yeah, like, it was crazy. Another client, they had a little more doors. They said it was like 50 something work orders were closed out in the first day of turning it on. And so, I mean, you're creating some dramatic stuff. Like this is a very different thing than what people are used to in maintenance. [00:06:27] David: Yeah. Yeah. And really what the exciting part about this, Jason, is that maintenance is actually really easy. And I know people laugh when I say that it's managing communications that is extremely difficult. Okay. Okay. Right, because you have, you know what AI told us about our industry over the last eight months is when we dove in with it and it took a step back and it said, whoa, you guys don't have a data problem here. [00:06:51] David: You guys have a emotion problem here. There's very specific categories of emotion that are in this space, right? Like, how do you build a technology that senses something? And I know this relates with property managers, 'cause I know this for myself. A property manager can walk into their office, sit down at their desk, and their spidey senses go off and they know something's wrong. [00:07:15] David: There's no screen that's telling them anything. There's no spreadsheet. They know something's off. Right. And so the AI is like, well, the statuses really don't matter that much to me based upon the feedback that I'm seeing from the property managers. Because the status and the communication all seem to be in order, but there's a disruption somewhere. [00:07:35] David: So I need to know about people's emotions. I need to understand about is the resident happy? Does the owner feel supported? Is the vendor being directed? And does the property manager believe that I can own the outcome for this? And it was really cool to start seeing its learning and understanding and picking up on these cues where, you know, people say that this is a data-driven industry. [00:07:55] David: It's really in an emotion driven industry.  [00:07:57] Jason: Oh yeah. It's a relationship and emotion industry for sure. Yeah. Yeah, big time.  [00:08:01] David: And it's really cool to see, and it's really started happening over this past last 60 days, the amount of residents, I was actually just looking at one before I jumped on here, that are like thanking the system, right? [00:08:15] David: Imagine that, like think of all of us that actually worked with the chat bot at like Verizon. I've never thanked that chatbot at Verizon for being their customer service. Right.  [00:08:25] Jason: And how do I get a representative? Representative. Representative!  [00:08:28] David: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Versus you seeing people, you know, seeing individuals saying to the, you know, saying to the Vendoroo maintenance coordinator, Hey, I really appreciate feeling supported and how fast you acted because you know, there's empathy that's inside of its law and learning. So I don't want to get too much into the details on there. But yeah, these are some of the exciting things that we're working on.  [00:08:47] Jason: I mean, empathy is the magic lubrication that makes everything better. [00:08:52] David: Yeah,  [00:08:52] Jason: I mean they, they've done studies. Teams, even in working in warehouses, are more productive if the team has a higher level of empathy. Yeah. And doctors perform better. Yeah. If there's a higher level of empathy, there's less malpractice suits, like empathetic reflection and empathy is a magical ingredient. [00:09:10] Jason: I coach clients to add that in during sales. Yeah. 'cause their close rate goes up dramatically. Yeah. Right. So yeah. So leveraging and like getting the AI to actually be empathetic in its communication. Yeah. When that's probably not a natural skill for a lot of maintenance coordinators to be empathetic. [00:09:26] David: It's not, it's not a natural skill for a lot of people in the maintenance industry. Right? Yes. Especially when you talk about burnout. People begin developing views of the rental community, right? Like, oh my gosh, they're calling again, and that empathy meter goes lower and lower and lower. [00:09:41] David: Yeah. As people have been in the industry longer. But isn't it great that you have an employee now that knows that, yeah, it's my duty, rain or shine, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 a year to always operate at the highest level of empathy? I never have a bad day. I never take a day off. [00:09:57] David: I'm never upset. I'm never short with somebody on the phone, never tired, never like, oh my gosh, Susan is calling me again. I'm going to let the phone just ring because I'm annoyed of talking to her. And it just is constantly hitting that same level of standard. And this is what's exciting to me, is that there are people that that have played around with this and have been a part of what I call the pain phase, right? [00:10:20] David: The pain phase is that understanding the way that agentic AI works, right? It's input in output. Input, output, right? The more that you're putting into it, the better the results are that you're going to get out of it, okay? Right. It's just like training an employee. So over the last eight months, what we've seen is that the community has trained this to be the level of a person that has now been working in the industry for five years. [00:10:46] David: In eight months. It's got five years of learning in eight months. Okay. Wow. In the next six to 12 months, we're probably looking at somebody that has 10 to 15 years understanding in the next six to 12 months and understand the level of type of tasks that it can do, especially getting into estimates and getting some other work. [00:11:04] David: And again, just you know, having empathy in my own life towards the people that jumped in that are like, what is this all about? Like, how does AI fail? Like, you know, there's still people that are involved and it was like this big like momentous train of like, you know, all these people were jumping on and giving ideas and people are in the loop and now it's weeding everything out and the AI stepping in and saying. [00:11:27] David: Hey, I appreciate all the input that you've given me. Thank you for all your effort. I'm now ready to step up to the plate and to own the outcome. Right. And that's what we're seeing at the NARPM show that's coming out. There's five AI tools. There's a master agent, five AI tools. And you know, I'll give you a couple of pieces here that, you know, we had feedback from our property managers like number one across the board. [00:11:50] David: A property manager said, if I'm hiring AI as my last employee, that has to work in my system. Yeah. Okay. Right. Like I don't want another, I don't want another technology. Yeah.  [00:11:59] Jason: I don't want a new system I got to get every vendor to use or a new system I got to get my team to use or figure out. We don't need another tool to make our lives more difficult. [00:12:08] Jason: No. They've got to use our stuff.  [00:12:09] David: They got to use, we have our existing stack. Yeah. So now the AI is fully integrated into all the most common PMS systems. You know, you have a cool chrome extension that you can download and there's a little yellow kangaroo right right there. And it's actually reading the work order that you're working on, and you can literally just ask it a question now and just being like, Hey, did anybody express frustration or concern on this work order? [00:12:32] David: Right? Because that's the emotion behind the status that you need to know. And it's like, yeah, two days ago Sally said that, you know, she was actually really frustrated about the multiple reschedules by this vendor. And it's like, great, that's a person I should be reaching out to and that's what I should be knowing that a status is never going to tell you. [00:12:47] David: Right? Yeah. It's in your slack, right? So if I have, if I'm on my phone, I'm talking to my employee and I'm laying in bed and I have a panic attack as a property manager, and I'm like, oh my gosh, did we take care of John's refrigerator and the office is closed? I can't get ahold of my employee. Yeah, you can. [00:13:03] David: Your employee works 24 7 now. Hey, can you give me an update on the refrigerator replacement at John's place? Yeah, it was scheduled this day. I contacted John. Everything's good to go. You know, go to sleep. You know, like, like that's the power. Full audit. Full syncing. So it's in your platform. That's really cool. [00:13:21] David: The other thing, it's got to be branded, right? This is a thing that we really learned about, like how important branding is to the community of property managers, right? Yeah. So the communications that go out have to be from your area code that's done. The emails that go out have to have like, you know, your company name and your logo on it. [00:13:39] David: The AI is doing that as well too. So that's being sent out, which is really cool. So people are feeling like, you know, that loyalty to brand is super important. And also do you know now that the AI can ask the residents to give a Google Review and we can link to the Google reviews and give you instant Google reviews to your page through the ai, which is cool, like how it's, it will know that if the success of a Google review is high on the way that the work order was done, that it's probably best to ask this person and it will send them a little thing. [00:14:11] David: Hey, can we get a feedback from you? And we link up to your Google review. And it posts that Google review to generate those 'cause we know those are super, super valuable to property managers. So that's actually going out today. That's kind of a little teaser there. That's the emails out now. [00:14:23] Jason: Nice. We'll have to get you to also connect it to our gather kudos links for clients 'cause then people can pick which review sites. So it diversifies the review profile.  [00:14:32] David: Love it. Love that. I'm going to hook you up with our guy Dotan. He's running that. He's one of our head of product. He's, actually out of Israel. [00:14:39] David: He's a amazing guy. I'd love to get you connected with him. Yeah. Cool. Let's do it. Cool. And then the biggest one too is like, I need a single point of contact. Right. And we knew that before there was a lot of people were still involved. There was a lot of oversight that was going on there, having that confusion and single point of contact. [00:14:56] David: Now it's in your phone, it's in your Slack, it's in your phone extension. It doesn't matter what's going on. You have one point of contact. It's your employee. You ask the question, get the answer, Jason, you can even ask for a change. You can even say, Hey, I want to change a vendor on a job and you'll see that the vendor gets changed for you in the system. [00:15:17] David: You can even say to your ai, and this is the big one: hey how do you triage this work order? And I want you to do this, or I want you to do that. And you just do it right through Slack or right through your PM chat and it makes the change for you. And now you have custom triage and all property managers have the ability to train their own AI for their company. [00:15:36] David: Think how cool that is. A person with 75 doors now, and the product that's being released has their own AI agent customized for their company, right? Yeah. Like, that's what happened over the last eight months, so you can see my excitement. There's been a lot of hard work in this. [00:15:54] David: Yeah, that's amazing. But this has been all the effort and a huge thank you out to everybody who's tried us, you know, even said that this wasn't for them at that point in time because those learnings went into what's going to make this product the best product in the property management space and is going to help people leverage sales and leverage efficiencies and blow their owners' minds away in ways that, that we have never thought about. [00:16:15] David: Oh yeah.  [00:16:16] Jason: Yeah. So I know like initially when you rolled this out, a lot of people were nervous about AI and you guys had kind of a human layer in between the AI and any communication Yeah, initially. Yeah. And so there was like, they had like a reps and a lot of people associated, oh, I've got this rep. [00:16:33] Jason: Yeah. You know, Steven or whatever is my rep or Pedro and I've got Pedro and like, oh no, what if Pedro leaves? And they were associating with that while the AI is really doing the crux of the work. Right. And so you guys have shifted away from even that now the AI is directly communicating with people. [00:16:52] Jason: Correct? Yeah.  [00:16:53] David: Yeah. So let's talk about that. So, definitely, so in the beginning there was like, we all had like lack of trust. We believed what it was going to do, but it was like we had a ton of people still trying, like, you know, using qualified VAs, training them. Like, you know, like, you know, if it fails, like, you know, you have to have a person stepped in and so let's talk about that. [00:17:12] David: So, you know, it was definitely that human layer. And let's talk about where we're at today. It is very clear to us, and the one thing that separates us from everybody is we still believe that humans are super important in this process. Okay? Yeah. And where humans are very important in this process are going to be when the AI says, Hey, I need you to make a phone call to this person for me, right? [00:17:35] David: Hey, I've reached out to this vendor three times and they haven't responded yet. I need you to give a phone call to see what's going on. Right? Hey, I need you to recruit a vendor for me. I need you to reach out and do a recruitment for the vendor. For me. Hey, this owner is asking questions about this estimate. [00:17:51] David: I need you to give a call for me. So the AI is basically able, on a standard work order, the AI can handle 95% of the workflow, no problem. Work order comes in, gets assigned to the resident. It gets out to the vendor. It's under the NTE not to exceed. It's great. The work gets done, the resident uploads its photos, the AI says to the resident, are you happy? [00:18:14] David: Everyone's good. It closes the work order out. Cool. Right. And then if a human...  [00:18:19] Jason: and how is it communicating with the tenant and with the vendor typically? [00:18:24] David: Yep. So, it's very clear that and this isn't a surprise to anybody. Everybody loves text messages, right? Yeah. I mean, that's just, it's just what it is. [00:18:32] David: You literally, like, people will get a phone call and they won't pick up and the text will come back and like text back. Yeah, text me. What do you need? Yeah. Text me here. But, so here's the things that people don't see behind the scenes that we'll talk about. So the complexity that went into. [00:18:51] David: Mapping out how to allow vendors... so a vendor could have like 20 jobs, right? And we don't want to send him like a code that he has to text for every work order so that it links to the right work order. Like what guy wants to do that? Okay. Like that's not how he works. So we figured out how to allow a vendor through AI just to use his regular phone and text anything about this thing. And it's understanding it and it's mapping it, it's routing it to all those work orders because we knew that in order for this to be the last employee somebody would have to handle, it also means that the vendor has to be happy and the same for the resident. [00:19:30] David: They can just text that they have multiple work orders. It understands what work order it's going to. If it's not quite sure, I would ask them, Hey, is this question about this work order? And they say, yeah. And so there's not like, again, codes and links and things that they have to do. It has to be seamless if they're working with a person. [00:19:46] David: So yeah, text message is massive. Email is second, and then phone is third for sure.  [00:19:51] Jason: Got it. So is your AI system calling people yet or you or telling the property manager to make the phone call?  [00:19:58] David: Yeah. People are okay with. If they're calling in like our new front desk agent, which if a person calls in and they want to get information about a listing or if they want to get information about a work order or something like that, or, you know, they're okay with getting that type of information. [00:20:13] David: Yeah. But they are, it is very clear that they are not okay with AI calling them when they're asking for an update on a work order like that. Like that line in the sand very clear. Yeah. And so we have people on on the team. That are constantly monitoring into ai, giving feedback, hitting improvement. [00:20:31] David: I want everybody to know there is not a work order that is taking place that is not touched by a human at least twice.  [00:20:38] Jason: Okay.  [00:20:39] David: Okay. Right.  [00:20:40] Jason: So there's a little, there's some oversight there. There there's, you're watching this, there are humans involved  [00:20:45] David: And then the ai will when it hits certain fail points, right? [00:20:51] David: It then escalates those things up to what we call the human in the loop, right? So there's an AI assistant, we there's people now that we're training a whole new generation of people that are no longer going to be maintenance coordinators. They're AI assistants now, right? And so when the AI says, Hey, this work order is not going down the path that I think it should go to be successful. [00:21:12] David: I'm escalating this up to a human, and so now as a property manager, not only am I getting this AI agent workflow that's standardizing the empathy and the workflows and all the stuff that we talked about in the communications, I also now get a fractional employee that when the AI says, Hey, I need help, I already have an employee that it can reach out to that can make that phone call or call the vendor. [00:21:36] David: But it's also monitoring the AI for me on top of it. So yes, there is, and that's one of the big thing that separates us apart is that the platform comes with what we call a human in the loop, an expert in the loop and so we're training the first generation of AI assistants in the property management industry. [00:21:55] David: Yep.  [00:21:56] Jason: Got it. So the AI maintenance coordinator. Has human assistance. Yep. Underneath it.  [00:22:02] David: And before it was the other way around where Yeah. The AI was assisting the human right. And now the humans are assisting the ai. That's what's happened in the last...  [00:22:11] Jason: that may be the future of all of our roles. [00:22:12] Jason: So,  [00:22:13] David: If you're not reading articles and studying up on this I think that's going to catch you by surprise pretty quickly. Yeah. Learn how to write prompts. I'll tell everybody right now. Yes.  [00:22:21] Jason: Yeah. Interesting. So, now what about this, you know, there's the uncanny, you know, sort of stage where people get a little bit nervous about AI and what do they call it? The uncanny valley or something like this, or right where it gets, it's so close to human that it becomes creepy. And there's some people that have fear about this, that are concerned. You're going to have a lot of late, you know, adopters that are like resistant. "I'll never do ai." [00:22:49] Jason: What would you say to somebody when you get on a sales call and they're like, well, I'm really nervous about this AI stuff, you know, and they just, they don't get it.  [00:22:57] David: Yeah.  [00:22:58] Jason: I'm sure there's people listening right now. They're like, oh man, AI is going to kill us all and it's going to take over the world and it's going to take our jobs. [00:23:05] Jason: And they think it's evil.  [00:23:06] David: Yeah. Yeah. I, and you know, I really want to hear that fear and I want to like, again, have empathy towards that. 'cause I do understand that fear of change causes people to get... Change in general. Yes. Right. It's like, whoa, I like everything the way it's going to be. Right. And we are historically in one of those phases of like, you know, the industrial revolution, the renaissance, like the automobile from horse. [00:23:34] David: Like, this is what is taking place. This is, this will be written down in history. It's massive change. It's a massive change. Massive. So what I would say to them, and not to, not from a way of fear. But to inspire them is there are a lot of hungry entrepreneurs out there that are embracing this head on. [00:23:57] David: Yeah. That are pushing the boundaries and the limits to be able to bring insights and customer service to their clients at a much higher level. And if you want to compete in this new AI economy. I would definitely encourage you to understand and get in and start investing in yourself now. But understand that investing in AI means having some pain threshold. [00:24:21] David: Like you got to get in, like you, you need to be able to give the feedback. You need to understand that if it falls short, do you have to be able to give it the time and the energy and the reward and the payoff of what I'm seeing for property managers who've embraced that when they're sitting there and they're going, I don't touch maintenance at all anymore. Yeah, it's wild. Right? And those are the people that in the beginning of this relationship, and there's a few that come to my head, are the ones that were sending me emails constantly saying, David, this is failing me. I believe in this, but this is failing me. And as my technology partner, I know that you're going to help us get this better. [00:24:58] David: And there is, you know, I have this word down that struggle equals great con conversation, right? Like, and so they had a struggle and that opened up a great conversation and because of that, their technology and the technology is getting better. So yeah, I think that from a personal point of view in this industry, one thing that I want to solve with AI is I think that we can all say that over the past 15 years, we've probably yelled at a lot of vendors or yelled at a lot of VAs or yelled at a lot of people. Let's start yelling at the ai. And then hopefully that the AI will actually eliminate the need for us to ever have to yell at anybody again because it knows us. [00:25:36] David: Yeah. It never fails us.  [00:25:38] Jason: You know? It really is amazing. I mean, your company is creating freedom for the business owner from being involved in maintenance. Yeah. Really?  [00:25:46] David: Yeah.  [00:25:47] Jason: And it just, and they get used to that pretty quickly. Like maintenance is just running and they're like, yeah. It frees up so much head space for them to focus on growth. [00:25:56] Jason: It gives them a whole bunch of like just greater capacity. Yeah. So they feel like, yeah, we could handle adding any number of doors now and we know we can still fulfill and do a good job.  [00:26:07] David: Yeah. Fixed cost scaling. Right? That's a term that we came up with is now that you know that I have a price per door that will cover all my maintenance. So if I went in and brought on 75 doors, I know that I don't have to go out and hire another employee. The system just grows with it and I know exactly what my margin is for all those doors. Right. And as we know previous, before fixed cost scaling a property managers is like, I have enough people. [00:26:32] David: I don't have enough people. Someone quit, someone didn't quit. My profit margins are good. My profit margins are bad. Yeah. And now with these AI tools. You know, you have your front desk employee, you have your maintenance coordinator, you have these fixed cost scales, and now somebody calls you up and says, Hey, I want you to take on 25 doors, and you're like, I have the resource resources for maintenance, which is, we know is 80% of the workload already. I don't have to go out and hire another maintenance coordinator 'cause the system just grows with me, which is cool.  [00:27:00] Jason: So one of the things you shared at DoorGrow Live and you're our top sponsor for the upcoming... Can't wait for DoorGrow Live, can't wait to, so we're really excited to have you back so. [00:27:10] Jason: Everybody make sure you're at DoorGrow Live if you want. Our theme this year is innovating the future of property management. And we're bringing, we're going to be showcasing, innovating pricing structures that are different than how property managers have typically historically priced, that allow you to lower your operational costs and close more deals more easily at a higher price point. [00:27:30] Jason: We're, we'll be showcasing a three tier hybrid pricing model that we've innovated here at DoorGrow, and we've got clients using it. It's been a game changer. We're going to be sharing other cool things about the future hiring systems, et cetera. Right. So you guys will also be there showcasing the future. [00:27:46] Jason: One of the things you shared previously that really kind of struck me as you showed, you did some research and you showed the typical cost. Per unit that most companies had just to cover and deal with maintenance. Yeah. And and then what you were able to get it down to.  [00:28:03] David: Yeah.  [00:28:04] Jason: And that alone was just like a bit of a mind blowing. [00:28:07] Jason: Could you just share a little bit of numbers here?  [00:28:09] David: Yeah. So one of the first things that we had to do when we started way back in the day is figure out well. Like, like what's the impact of AI going to be us from like a cost perspective, right? Is it a huge change? And so we went out on a big survey mission and we were surveying property managers and asking them, what's your cost per door for managing maintenance? [00:28:30] David: How much do you spend every door to manage maintenance? Now the first thing is less than 1% of property managers knew what that cost was. Sure.  [00:28:37] Jason: Oh, sure. Right. Because, but then they got to figure out, oh, we got a maintenance coordinator and we've got these people doing phone calls and they cost this, and yeah, it's complicated. [00:28:45] David: It's complicated. So we built a calculator. Okay. And then people could start adding in that information out into the calculator, and the average person was around $13 and 50 cents a door.  [00:28:56] Jason: Okay. Okay.  [00:28:57] David: Wow. Right, right. So that was where the average person was, somewhere in the low twenties. Yeah. [00:29:01] David: And others were actually pretty good. Like, I'd say like, you know, some of the good ones that we saw were maybe around like, you know, 10, $11 a door or something along that line.  [00:29:09] Jason: They probably had a large portfolio would be my guess.  [00:29:12] David: Yeah. And also I think a lot of it's just like, you know, I don't know if they were still accounting for all their software and everything that they had. [00:29:19] David: Maybe they're not factoring everything. Yeah. No, I think if we really dug in, it'd be different. So now we know that, you know, the base package of what people are getting in. The average cost of what people are paying for 24 7 services that's emergencies around the clock is about $7 and 50 cents a door, right? [00:29:37] David: So right off the bat in AI's first swing, it said we cut the cost in half. Yeah. Okay. Right. So 50% reduction. I mean, to me as an owner, a 50% reduction in cost. That's like. You know, alarms and celebration going off, you know? For sure. And then, yeah.  [00:29:55] Jason: And that's, if everything just stayed the same, like it was still the same level of quality, cutting in half would be a solid win right there. [00:30:03] Jason: Yeah.  [00:30:03] David: Yeah. That's just like status quo stuff. And now what, with the release of the new Vendoroo product that, that's actually being announced here today. The email's going out to all of our existing clients of all the new features that are coming out now, we're starting to see that. You know that quality is now increasing to where if you were to go out and hire that person, you may have to be spending, you know, 55,000 or $65,000 a year. [00:30:29] David: Right? So now it's like saying, okay, if we can get as good as what these people are using for their VAs right, and we know what that cost is, and they're saying that's, you know, that's what their factors is. Well, what happens in the next six to 12 months when this is a seasoned person that you would've to pay $85,000 a year to? [00:30:45] David: Right. Yeah. And right, because they have knowledge of. Estimates and knowledge of vendor routing and knowledge of, you know, it can handle...  [00:30:53] Jason: you've invested so much time into them, so much attention. They know your properties and know your portfolio. They know the vendors. Like you've invested so much into this person that now they sort of have you by the balls so that they're like, Hey, I want 80 k or I walk.  [00:31:06] David: Yeah.  [00:31:06] Jason: You're like, you've got to come up with it.  [00:31:08] David: Yeah.  [00:31:09] Jason: Right. You've got to do it.  [00:31:10] David: Yeah.  [00:31:10] Jason: And you know, because that's not easy to create. And a lot of people, in order to have a good maintenance coordinator, they need a veteran of the industry. Veteran of industry. [00:31:19] Jason: They need somebody that's been doing this a long time.  [00:31:21] David: Yeah.  [00:31:22] Jason: And that's really hard to find.  [00:31:24] David: Yes. It's extremely hard to find as we know. One of the things that I think that we're doing for this industry is we're actually preserving knowledge that I don't think is necessary getting passed down. [00:31:33] David: Yeah. You know, there's a lot less people that I think are as handy as they once were in the Americas and so we have a lot of that knowledge. Like, you know, we know that the average age of an electrician is in the sixties, the average age of a plumber's in the sixties. And these guys, you know, they have wealth of knowledge that it can troubleshoot anything that's going on in a house. [00:31:54] David: And so to be able to try to preserve some of that, so maybe if a person does come in, you know, maybe there's some knowledge sharing along the lines. But let's take it even in another step forward Jason that in the future, you know, the AI is going to know the location of the hot water tank in that house. [00:32:10] David: It's going to then add it automatically to the system, like. It's going to know more knowledge than they will because it's going to have maps of every single property that's all currently sitting inside of, you know, that maintenance coordinator's head, right? And so it's going to, it's going to actually know more than them, you know. [00:32:26] Jason: Yeah. That's wild. Yeah, it is. Absolutely. It's the future. Cool. Well, you're rolling out a bunch of new features. You're announcing these today. You've told me a little bit, but why don't you tell the listeners what's changing, what's new, what innovations have come out? What are you guys launching? [00:32:41] David: Yeah. Exciting. Yeah. So, the biggest one I think is, which is the most exciting is, is Resiroo, which is the first one that actually handles all the communications with the resident and does the triage and troubleshooting. First one of what are you talking about? So we have our products. [00:32:57] David: So you have these AI tools, right? These agents. Right.  [00:33:00] Jason: And so, you know, every, so think of them like different sort of people?  [00:33:04] David: Skill sets. Yeah. Different person. Okay. Exactly. And so that's when you come and see our display at the NARPM conference, you'll actually will see these five agents kind of in their work desk and in their environments, kind of cool. [00:33:15] David: Okay. Able to see them right. So the coolest part about that one is we're doing a major product you know, update on that for not only the knowledge base, but we're actually turning that over to the company. We were talking about this a little bit before, and now they own their own AI agent and they can customize it into how they want it to ask questions or the type of questions and the mindsets when it's triaging stuff. [00:33:41] David: Triaging work orders for their portfolio. Like super cool. So fully customizable to your company, right?  [00:33:49] Jason: So now sometimes the more humans get involved, the more they mess stuff up.  [00:33:54] David: Yes. We make sure they don't mess it up. So everyone's going to learn how to write prompts and they'll submit it into us. [00:33:59] David: And we have a great team of AI engineers that when that knowledge base is written or what they're doing. We will ensure that it is put in so that it actually produces the desire outcome, right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's a very exciting one. The second one that I'm that I think is so cool, do you know that only 10% of all estimates get approved by the owner without one or multiple questions? [00:34:23] David: Because owners really struggle with trust when it comes to estimates. Like 10%. Like, that's a really bad number, I felt as the industry that owners only believe us one out of 10 times. Like that's the way I took that. Yeah. Right. And so, Owneroo is what I coined inside, is the estimate of the future. [00:34:41] David: That really was looking in understanding like what was, what questions was the owner asking when they were rejecting a bid that that we could proactively ask the answer for them to help guide them to understanding the value in this estimate that they're looking at in historical context of the property. [00:35:00] David: How many other people have experienced this issue? Like, like there's a whole bunch of factors that should go into an estimate and an estimate should no longer be like, here's a cost from Frank. Right? Like, like that was like, like that was...  [00:35:14] Jason: here's what Frank said it is. Yeah. Like that was like from the 1940s. [00:35:17] Jason: That's good. How do I trust that?  [00:35:18] David: How do I trust that? That was from the forties and we're still...  [00:35:21] Jason: how much went into this decision? Was this just out of the blue, like pulled out of your ass or is this like legit?  [00:35:27] David: Yeah. Yeah. What's the, you know, we live in a data-driven world, so what's the intellect behind this estimate? [00:35:33] David: And so I'm really excited about Owneroo, which is going to be the new standard for the way the estimates are created. We have the front desk agent which is coming out. So, that one is going to handle phone calls that are coming in, be able to talk about available listings, actual general questions about leases route phone calls over to property managers for you. [00:35:54] David: So again. Very human-like interaction, great AI voice. Actually. We feel it's going to be the best in the industry. So a person's calling in, just like they're calling your office able to handle all those front desk things. We, we have the PM chat, which is now the employee which is fully integrated into all of your systems. [00:36:14] David: It's in Slack. That's your employee that you get to talk to. We believe that if you're going to hire somebody, they should be inside of your communication channels. You have the Google Chrome extension that it's on right inside your AppFolio or your buildium or your Rentvine software that you can ask and talk to it. [00:36:31] David: So, yeah, so we have a lot of exciting products that have come out. And then of course the backbone of all of them in the middle is Vendoroo, which handles all the scheduling, all the communications. You know, a resident asks for an update, responds to them, an owner asks for an update, it responds to them. [00:36:48] David: And you know, it handles actually the body of the work order. So you have those five tools, we believe are what the property management industry said. If you are going to give me an employee, this is what the employee has to be. This is what makes up that employee. So we say that these tools, these agents were actually built by the property management industry. [00:37:08] David: And that excites me because if you're not building AI tools from working with your partners, from being on the ground floor with them and using the data and building tools based upon the data and their pain points and their failures, buyer beware. If somebody's coming to you and saying, Hey, we figured this all out in the lab. [00:37:25] David: Come use it. Yeah. Right. Buyer beware.  [00:37:29] Jason: Yeah. So you guys connect with Slack. They can communicate through Slack, but it slack's a paid tool. Have you guys considered Telegram? I love Telegram Messenger.  [00:37:37] Jason: Alright. Could you do that? Write it down. Telegram Messenger is like the iMessage tool that works on every device. [00:37:44] Jason: It's free. It's one of the most secure, it's not owned or controlled by Facebook. Like, WhatsApp, like, yeah. But WhatsApp might be a close second, but we use Telegram internally, so I love Telegram.  [00:37:58] David: We'll definitely take that into, into consideration for sure. Yeah, check it  [00:38:02] Jason: out. Because I, what I love is the voice message feature and I can just listen to my team and others at like high speed, but internal communications and it's free for everybody, which is great. [00:38:12] Jason: So, yeah.  [00:38:13] David: Yeah. I think a lot, for a lot of people it was like you know, who was Vendoroo in the beginning and Vendoroo was like the team of like people that were trying to figure out like how is AI going to work in this industry? [00:38:26] David: How is it going to solve the needs of our property management partners? And this is why I say to everybody, if you thought about Vendoroo, if you came in and the experience wasn't great with Vendoroo, if you're one of our existing clients that has been with us and you're and you're still moving forward, and we thank you so much for your dedication to this, the Vendoroo product, everything that we've done, everything that we worked at is being showcased at the NARPM broker owner. The email's going out today. This is who Vendoroo is. We are a team that is a technology partner for the property management industry that is helping building meaningful AI tools, specifically by demand, by our industry to help us show value and to preserve this great industry. [00:39:09] David: For the future in this new AI economy, right? Like we need to step up. We have clients that are adding doors left and right because they're showing their clients that they use an AI maintenance system and their clients are like, this is what I expect from a property management in this community. [00:39:24] David: Right? And again, Owneroo, that estimate, we believe that in the future. Like, like owners are going to say like, I'm not approving an estimate unless it's like the estimate of the future, right? Like, like that's the new standard. So you got to know what the new standards are and you got to get technology that are going to help you compete with those new standards that will be in your community and are will be in your community in the next week, the next two weeks. [00:39:46] David: And definitely some really cool products in the next six months.  [00:39:49] Jason: All right. Well, yeah, I'm really excited to see what you guys have been able to create so far. So yeah, it's pretty awesome. Yeah. All right. Well David, it's been awesome having you on the show. Sounds like you guys are really innovating the future. Everybody come to DoorGrow Live. David, are you going to be at that one? I will be there. All right, so you can come meet David in person. [00:40:08] Jason: We've got some amazing people that are going to be at this. We've got technology people. There's a gentleman there, one of the vendors they created another really cool tool, but he had a hundred million dollars exit, you know, in a previous business, like there's really amazing entrepreneurs and people at this event, so come to DoorGrow Live, get your tickets, and if you do, we have just decided that we're going to give out to anybody that registers. [00:40:34] Jason: You can pick from one of our free bonuses that are well worth the price of the ticket. Or coming or anything in and of itself, including our pricing secrets training that goes over a three tier hybrid pricing model or our sales secrets training, which goes over how we're helping property managers crush it and closing more deals more easily at a higher price point. [00:40:55] Jason: And reputation secrets, which are helping our clients get way more positive reviews by leveraging the psychology and the law of reciprocity and getting the majority of their tenants in order to give them positive feedback online. Maybe some others. So you'll be able to pick from these bonuses one of these that you might like and that's our free, most incredible free gift ever that we'll give to each person that registers for DoorGrow Live. [00:41:19] Jason: So.  [00:41:20] David: Cool. Awesome man. Always great to see you. Looking forward to seeing you at DoorGrow Live and love that you guys are working on pricing because AI is going to make people think different about pricing. It's going to be way more efficient, so you guys are ahead of the curve on that. Great job, Jason. [00:41:33] Jason: Awesome. All right, so how can they check out Vendoroo, David?  [00:41:36] David: Just visit, Vendoroo.ai, go to the website, request a demo with one of our great sales reps, and yeah they'd love to help you out. See all the new products, see how far it's come. And again, we thank everybody from the bottom of our hearts for all their effort, people who've tried us out. [00:41:52] David: Come back and see what you built and yeah. Come check us out at Vendoroo.  [00:41:57] Jason: Got it. Go check out Vendoroo, it's vendor. If you know how to spell that, V-E-N-D-O-R-O-O dot A-I, go check it out. All right? And if you're a property management entrepreneur, you want to add doors, you want to make your business scalable, you want to get out of the day to day, you want to increase the capacity so your company could easily handle another 200 plus doors without having to make any significant systems changes, reach out to us at DoorGrow. We will help you figure it out. So until next time to our mutual growth. Bye everyone. 

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Start your FREE online visit and go to https://www.Hims.com/GENIUSBRAIN today! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the GeniusBrain podcast on YouTube go to: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Start your FREE online visit today at https://www.Hims.com/GENIUSBRAIN GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to our Korean Thanksgiving with returning guests David So & Peter Kim. We chat The Devirginator, pudge-lords, Korean vampires, cheezy chopsticks, and the nuclear shadow of Joel Kim Booster. DraftKings is offering a warm welcome to new players with ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS INSTANTLY IN CASINO CREDITS with just a ten dollar wager. Plus, EVERYONE can get in on the action with a holiday reward every week! So, sign up with code TIGERBELLY because the holiday cheer is here! Only on DraftKings Casino.

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we come to the end of the Ladder of Divine Ascent St. John unfolds for us the heights to which we are drawn – the theological virtues of Faith, Hope and Love. Hope, often the most neglected of virtues, is the annulment of despair. It allows us to hold on to the promise of Christ to be with us always. Even when faith seems to fail us and all grows dark because of the cross that we carry, our hope in the Lord allows us to be consoled by his mercy and to be drawn forward. It protects us from despondency and doubt. Love when unimpeded allows us to see as God sees; to see the signs of the times and how things will unfold even when all seems chaotic. This divine love yields miracles; the supernatural healing and perfecting the natural. Through it we come to see the things of the kingdom with clarity. This clarity creates a fire within the heart; an urgent longing and thirst for the Lord that only he can quench. It is our movement into eternity. It reveals to us that the kingdom is now, heaven is now, eternity is now! We come to see that this love is not distant but that the kingdom dwells within.  St. John closes the step by calling out to Love Himself to satisfy his desire, to show him the path of the ascent that is most direct. For even though he had received this wisdom from others, St. John understands that it is only Love himself who can guide us. It is the experience of this love alone that moves us from words to reality. Finally, St. John exhorts us along with all those who read his book to ascend eagerly and to be resolved in their hearts to strive for the Lord above all things. He is our life, our salvation, our love! --- Text of chat during the group: 00:01:21 Bob Cihak, AZ: My microphone isn't working again but this is probably for the better, because I have a strong head cold with the virus also giving my voice into a gravelly inflection.   Doreen Stacy, our artist friend's funeral was yesterday. Preparations conflicted with our Monday meeting; I know I'm already excused but wanted to ask for prayers. Doreen only had 3 children but one of her daughters had 11. Who would have guessed that an English Professor could splendidly support a family that size?   00:08:21 Lori Hatala: https://gmail.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c38acab568d650f7ef65f39df&id=3f6ad96818&e=b6af48f1a0   00:12:25 Sr Barbara Jean Mihalchick: What is the title of the St. Isaac book?   00:12:44 Bob Cihak, AZ: P. 179, # I   00:14:52 Bob Cihak, AZ: Oops. Wrong book. Actually p.246, # 30 P. 179, # I   00:15:15 David: Sr. Barbara it is ISBN 978-0-943405-16-2 Holy Transfiguration Monastery my copy is 2011   00:26:39 Rebecca Thérèse: In what specifically are we supposed to hope? And what does lack of hope look like?   00:27:16 Lilly (Toronto, CA): “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” ...It's hard to surrender our weakness or sufferings, but it's in those darkest times that a simple Psalm will be enough to help us persevere   00:30:58 Myles Davidson: Replying to "What is the title of..."   The Ascetical Homilies of St. Isaac the Syrian   00:32:31 Myles Davidson: Replying to "What is the title of..."   https://htmp.org/St-Isaac-Ascetical-Homilies/overview.html   00:58:14 Maureen Cunningham: Hound oh heaven   00:58:41 Joseph: “Love is the progress of eternity” echoes St. Gregory of Nyssa's notion of epektasis, the eternal ‘stretching and straining' of the soul toward God. Each step toward God is both a fulfillment and a new beginning. Our mystical ascent never truly comes to an end, the cup is never entirely full, our love reaches out to God for eternity.   00:59:54 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Who's the author of Flying over the abyss?   01:00:28 Dave Warner | AL: Flying over the Abyss: https://essexmonastery.com/bookshop/flying-over-the-abyss   01:01:26 Lilly (Toronto, CA): Thank you   01:01:41 Dave Warner | AL: Replying to "Who's the author of ..."   Archmandrite Zacharias Zacharou   01:02:18 Dave Warner | AL: Reacted to "Thank you" with

Yay our beloved KoKo is back & all is right in the world again! Today we've got Rudy Jules and David So in the stu to make Khalyla feel welcome and (obviously) roasted for her recent Bells Palsy Health Scare. After that, the group digs into reverse body dysmorphia, aunts dating yacht men, couples' hobbies, anime & the female psychosis related to dieting & going out. Thank You to Our Sponsor(s) *SKIMSSSSS* *Holiday Shop* (Whisper voice) -Shop SKIMS Holiday Shop at https://www.skims.com -Available in styles for women, men, kids and even pets! -If you haven't yet, be sure to let them know we sent you! After you place your order, select "podcast" in the survey and select our show in the dropdown menu that follows at SKIMS.com *RocketRX* For listeners, you can get 40% off your first order. Use code TRASHTUESDAY! -Visit: https://www.rebrand.ly/8f0df2 and enter code: TRASHTUESDAY at checkout for 40% off your first order. Terms and conditions apply. -40% is only available once for new customers!  *HERS* Start your free online visit today at https://www.forhers.com/trashtuesday -That's F-O-R-H-E-R-S dot com slash trashtuesday for your personalized weight loss treatment options.  - Hers Weight Loss is not available everywhere. Compounded products are not FDA-approved or verified for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required. Restrictions apply. Wegovy® and Ozempic® are not compounded. *See Esther LIVE!* https://linktr.ee/EstherPTouring *Listen to Esther's New Solo Pod!* https://esthersgrouptherapy.substack.com/ *Visit Ebb Ocean Club & Holiday Shop* at https://www.ebboceanclub.com/ for Khalyla's reef safe and biodegradable hair products! *PLEASE show you're love and Like & Subscribe to Our Channel* https://www.youtube.com/ @TrashTuesday   ______________________________________________________________________ More David So:  IG: https://www.instagram.com/davidsocomedy/ David's Podcast(s):  GenuisBrain: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL91mUNcJ6cuRQQUgY7TNXMeraip4Lx5hD The Casuals: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCn_LM5J3HGszLxdbCAyzkk More Rudy Jules: IG: https://www.instagram.com/rudyjuless/ Bad Friends Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@BadFriends Tigerbelly Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@TigerBelly More David So: Chapters:  ___________________________________________________________________ Listen to Trash: Trash iTunes Audio Feed: https://bit.ly/TrashTuesdayPod Trash Spotify Audio Feed: https://bit.ly/TTPodAudio Follow Trash: IG: https://www.instagram.com/itstrashtuesday/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@itstrashtuesday More Esther: Substack: https://esthersgrouptherapy.substack.com/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@esthermonster Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esthermonster/ More Khalyla:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/khalamityk/ Tigerbelly Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@UCIyIoM_Nd8HtY19fuR_ov2A  ___________________________________________________________________ Production Team: Tiny Legends, LLC:  https://www.instagram.com/tinylegends.prod/ Stella Young: https://www.instagram.com/estellayoung/ Guy Robinson: https://www.instagram.com/grobfps/ Ariel Moreno: https://www.instagram.com/jade.rabbit.cce/ Edited By: Case Blackwell:  https://www.instagram.com/caseblackwell/  

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Head to https://www.TryFum.com and use code GENIUS to save 10% OFF your order! GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Go to https//www.GetKikoff.com/GENIUS to get your first month for only $1 and start building your credit, today! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get 25% OFF your subscription or try the app FREE at https://www.Fitbod.me/GENIUS GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Go to https//www.GetKikoff.com/GENIUS to get your first month for only $1 and start building your credit, today! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Go to https//www.GetKikoff.com/GENIUS to get your first month for only $1 and start building your credit, today! GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

To get your new unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, and get the plan shipped to your door for FREE, go to https://www.mintmobile.com/genius15 GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Head to https://www.TryFum.com and use code GENIUS to save 10% OFF your order! GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Go to https://www.LectricEbikes.com and be sure to mention that GeniusBrain sent you in the post-checkout survey! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get 25% OFF your subscription or try the app FREE at https://www.Fitbod.me/GENIUS GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

To get your new unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, and get the plan shipped to your door for FREE, go to https://www.mintmobile.com/genius15 GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Head to https://www.TryFum.com and use code GENIUS to save 10% OFF your order! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Go to https://www.LectricEbikes.com and be sure to mention that GeniusBrain sent you in the post-checkout survey! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

To get your new unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, and get the plan shipped to your door for FREE, go to https://www.mintmobile.com/genius15 GeniusBrain with David So is sponsored by BetterHelp! Go to https://www.BetterHelp.com/GENIUS for 10% OFF your first month! Follow David on IG: @DavidSoComedy If you want to support the show, and get all the episodes ad-free go to: https://geniusbrain.supercast.com/ To watch the podcast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainYouTube Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/GeniusBrainPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices