Jesus Has Left the Building

In this final episode of this season, Altered States, Marta and Mandy talk with Rev. Lori Walke, minister of Mayflower Congregational Church in Oklahoma City, OK. We hear about her journey from growing up Southern Baptist to becoming a pastor in the United Church of Christ, about her work at Mayflower, and about her justice work, especially in regards to being a part of a lawsuit attempting to uphold the separation of church and state within the educational sphere of the state of Oklahoma and beyond. This is a conversation you don't want to miss.

In this episode, we expand our reach from Kansas and Colorado into Wyoming and beyond! Marta & Mandy talk to Lisa Ansell Frazier, the founder, director and president of Buffalo Youth Nation. Lisa is a member of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe and currently lives in Wyoming. She is a mother of three beautiful children and a dog mom to three amazing dogs. She is a Tribal Trauma Crisis Counselor, Native Nations Advisory Panelist and a student at the Institute of American Indian Arts. She spends her free time hiking with her family and gardening. Her mission is empowerment of Native youth, creating stability and nurturing self-esteem.

Marta and Mandy chat with Felicia Smith GrayBeal, the Priest of St Paul's Episcopal Church, " a community following Christ into risky, messy, compassionate relationship with God, our neighbors and the world." St. Paul's literally followed Jesus out of the building when they sold their church building and started sharing space with two other congregations. We talk about the "messy middle" of life in community, and Felicia gives some great advice to congregations who are in similar situations.

Marta and Mandy chat with Amy Kay Pavlovich, a minister and the owner of Connected, a fair trade store in Lindsborg, Kansas. Amy Kay talks about how she got into fair trade and how impactful fair trade is on the lives of people all around the world.

Marta & Mandy get real with Queen and Princess as we talk about the work they are doing in and around Ft. Collins, Denver, and the surrounding areas. We talk about their non-profit organizations, the concept of ubuntu, reparations, liberation, and above all, the work of building the God's Kin-Dom right here on earth. Do not miss this episode!

Marta & Mandy chat with Reb Moti Reiber and Rev. Rachael Pryor of Kansas Interfaith Action (KIFA), a Kansas statewide, multi–faith issue–advocacy organization that “puts faith into action” by educating, engaging and advocating on behalf of people of faith and the public regarding critical social, economic, and climate justice issues. We talk about the difference between politics and partisanship, about how progressives can get active in advocacy in Kansas and other states, and how faith is like a three-legged stool, with justice being an integral part of a personal and a communal faith life.

Marta and Mandy speak with Melissa St. Clair and Wendy Davidson of Heart of the Rockies Church in Ft. Collins, a church who is literally giving away their land in order to create intentional community with folks who are struggling to find homes as housing costs sky-rocket in northern Colorado. This is a story you don't want to miss.

A lot has happened lately! In the fall of 2022, Mandy moved to a small town in rural Kansas, and in the spring of 2023, Marta moved to northern Colorado. We've been getting to know our new communities over the last year, and now we are ready to share the awesome work that is happening in Kansas and Colorado with the JHLTB communities, so for Season 8, we are coming to you from our Altered States! We'll be talking to some amazing folks from Kansas, Colorado, and the surrounding states who are following Jesus out of the building and into the world, so be sure to follow us on Facebook, Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Plymouth Congregational Church is doing cool things, and we want to highlight Youth For Change - an important ministry led by Plymouth's youth. Check it out, and then listen to the end for a promo of our upcoming season which will drop at the end of January 2024!

We are so excited to welcome The Rev. Wil Gafney, Ph.D. She is the author of A Women's Lectionary for the Whole Church and Womanist Midrash: A Reintroduction to Women of the Torah and of the Throne, as well as many other publications. She is an Episcopal priest, and a delightful human, and we're grateful that she joins us to share her wisdom!

Marta & Mandy are joined by “cathedral deans and musical theatre queens” Nathan LeRud and Peter Elliott, the hosts of The Gospel of Musical Theatre, a podcast that takes a deep dive into musicals classic and contemporary, examining the intersection of musical theatre, spirituality, culture, and justice. In this episode, we talk about performing and authenticity in our liturgical work. Nathan and Peter give a thoughtful exegesis of the musical Oklahoma! as an example of the kinds of discussions they have on the podcast. We discuss the ways that exploring these beloved musicals, in much the way that exploring the bible, forces us to ask questions about what is redeemable about our beloved stories, and what simply isn't. What does it take to love our favorite musicals, and our biblical stories, more wholeheartedly and more honestly? This is an episode that you don't want to miss!

Marta & Mandy chat with Molly Baskette, UCC pastor and author of several books, including her most recent, How to Begin When Your World is Ending: A Spiritual Field Guide to Joy Despite Everything. Molly shares some pro-tips for handling some of the most challenging experiences a person can live through. She offers a disaster theology that works for progressive Christians who are searching for meaning-making both in the midst of and following trauma and suffering. Find all of Molly's books on her website!

This episode features Dr. Mark Biddle and Dr. Melissa Jackson, two of the founders and leaders of Sophia Theological Seminary & Sophia Farms, organizations that seek to re-imagine theological education. where seminary students will “pay” for their theological education while working on Sophia Farms. We talk about the ways this ministry truly takes the work of Jesus out of the building and onto the land for a new generation of ministers. Especially in light of the political polarization of student loan forgiveness, this conversation provides a revolutionary alternative to student debt. 

Kimberly Knight joins Marta & Mandy for a conversation about her organization, Wildwood Wisdom. Kimberly is an expat living in the Netherlands, and has been a longtime Wild Goose Festival participant. She, too, is a WGF sponsor this year. Her work connects spirituality with nature, and literally takes the work of the church outside the building! Consider attending her upcoming event in October in Little Rock, AK: Our Sacred Nature Retreat! Jesus Has Left the Building and Kimberly are both sponsors of the 2023 Wild Goose Festival, held in Union Grove, North Carolina, July 13-16! JHLTB Listeners can get $50 off tickets with the discount code JHLTB. Don't miss this transformational event!

Corbin Tobey-Davis and Tierra Brown join Marta & Mandy to share the work they do at The ROCK Center in Aurora, Colorado. The ROCK Center is a community based organization serving children, youth and their families, offering arts based out of school programming for youth and families that focuses on cultivating resilience through teaching connection, coping skills, and competence. We talk about the way art can heal trauma, providing a vehicle for transformation. Be sure to check out this awesome video of their flagship program, Peace Warriors!

In this episode, we interview Tim Kerr, Director of Partner Relations for the Wild Goose Festival, an annual 4-day Spirit, Justice, Music and Arts Festival. Now in it's 13th year, the Wild Goose Festival is an opportunity for people to "people flock together to celebrate a way of life rooted in faith, justice, creativity, and beauty. It's like a family reunion where you meet relatives you never knew you had. It's a wild and wonderful convergence of stimulating conversations, campfires, music, kids, art, lawn chairs, prayer, fun, dance, frisbees, tents, food, sunshine, rain, laughter, and fresh air." (Brian McLaren) Jesus Has Left the Building is a sponsor of the 2023 festival, held in Union Grove, North Carolina, July 13-16! Listeners can get $50 off tickets with the discount code JHLTB. Don't miss this transformational event!

Divesting from Hierarchy features Jenny Whitcher and Javon Bracy, two ministers from Juniper Formation, a faith community where prophetically reimagine the Church from the margins. Juniper is women- and nonbinary-led, multiethnic and antiracist, affirming of undocumented neighbors, celebrating of different abilities, and Open & Affirming of LGBTQ+ individuals and families in the life, leadership, and sacraments of the church. We talk about Juniper's digital and physical ministry, their commitment to anti-racist and non-hierarchical structure, and how they recognize all of life together as holy.

This episode features Rev. Lorraine Ceniceros, Conference Minister of the Kansas-Oklahoma Conference of the United Church of Christ. Lorraine is the first Latina woman installed into the position of Conference Minister in the United Church of Christ, and only the 5th Mexican-American woman to be ordained in the UCC. Lorraine speaks about her childhood experience of assimilation, and her awakening to her identity as she grew up in southern California and began serving churches in the UCC. This open and thoughtful conversation explores the complicated intersections of race in America.

In this episode, we interview Rev. Claudia Aguilar Rubalcava, interim pastor at Park Hill Congregational Church in Denver, Colorado. Claudia shares her story as a Mexican woman serving the church in the United States. She talks about her own work towards anti-racism, and she gives us our all-time favorite analogy for the constant work of racism - it's like flushing the toilet! If you ever get weary about not "achieving" anti-racism, this analogy will help you understand, and you're sure to laugh out loud too!

Christian Watkins is the Campus Pastor/Executive Director of Ecumenical Campus Ministries at Kansas State University, and she is the Associate Producer of the independent film The Pulpit. In this episode, Marta, Mandy & Christian talk about ministry in rural settings, what it means to be a woman in ministry, how honoring differences is better than assimilation, and so much more. We also talk in depth about Christian's involvement with The Pulpit, a suspense thriller which tells the story of a progressive, rural pastor who receives death threats for the message of inclusion she preaches. This film is a powerful and important story about advocacy, and they need your help to make it a feature length film. Support The Pulpit here!

Today we feature Kris Watson, founder and CEO, and Pat Dolin, board member, of Nurturing Justice, an organization that exists to "promote the dignity of all humanity, expose the fallacy of white skinned supremacy and promote the notion that there is no hierarchy of human value based on skin color." We talk about the danger of white supremacy, about how important it is to see Jesus as he was historically - a brown-skinned Jew living in north Africa, and ways that people of fact can work towards anti-racism both personally and within their faith communities.

Marta & Mandy are joined by friend and colleague Jeff Scholes to interview Kristin Du Mez about her book Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation. Kristin Kobes Du Mez is a New York Times bestselling author and Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University. She holds a PhD from the University of Notre Dame and her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics. Jeff Scholes is Associate Professor of Religious Studies in the Department of Philosophy and the Director of the Center for Religious Diversity and Public Life at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs, which will bring Kristin to Colorado Springs to talk about her work on February 23, 2023.

As you can imagine, we had lots of really great conversations with Rev. Dr. Anthony Scott while recording our mini-series "Facing Our F.E.A.R.S" and some of it didn't make it into the 3 episodes. We wanted to get this important discussion out, where we talk about finding a community of practice, definitions, the word “lynching”, trauma, and so much more. Be sure to check it out!

In this final episode of the mini-series with Rev. Dr. Anthony Scott, we talk about dismantling racism using the F.E.A.R.S framework. We dive deep into the ways that white people can do this much needed work with authenticity.

In this second episode, we think about ways to discredit racism, using Rev. Dr. Anthony Scott's framework of Facing Our F.E.A.R.S. and we learn about how shaking the foundation of racism - both individually and systemically - can lead to important change.

In the first of a 3 episode series of conversations Rev. Dr. Anthony Scott shares his expertise and experience to help us disrupt racism within ourselves and larger systems of oppression. We unpack the F.E.A.R.S framework (F - Faith Formation, E - Education, A - Accountability, R - Reflection, S - Sorrow) and we discuss concrete ways that the framework can help us disrupt racism.

Our final episode of Season 7, I'm Too Sacred for That, features Dr. Christena Cleveland. Christena Cleveland Ph.D. is a social psychologist, public theologian, author, and activist. A weaver of Black liberation and the sacred feminine, Dr. Cleveland integrates psychology, theology, storytelling, and art to stimulate our spiritual imaginations. She recently completed her third full-length book, God is a Black Woman, which details her 400-mile walking pilgrimage across central France in search of ancient Black Madonna statues, and examines the relationship among race, gender, and cultural perceptions of the Divine. This episode is a gift to the Jesus Has Left the Building community, as Christena reminds us in this conversation that we are allowed, even called, find ourselves in the divine. We're grateful for this perfect finale that calls us into relationship with ourselves, our neighbors and with God as we continue to think about Ritualizing Relationships.

In the penultimate episode of Season 7, Marta & Mandy chat about what they've learned about Ritualizing Relationship in conversation with the many and varied guests. We hear from Angie Hong & Jennifer Guerra Aldana, two of the co-founders of Kinship Commons, a collective for artists of color creating experiential worship experiences. Be sure to listen to the end for a sneak peek of our final episode with Dr. Christena Cleveland.

Episode 8 of Ritualizing Relationships is called Unconference and it features Aaron Bailey and Jen Fisher, the co-founders of Launchpad Partners. Launchpad provides coaching, tools and resources to leaders who sense a calling to launch something new into the world – whether that something is a church, an organization, a podcast or “yet to be determined.” But whatever it is, something that is loudly and clearly inclusive, antiracist, love and justice and joy-generating. We talk about Launchpad's most recent conference - which they call an “unconference” and the ways that we can think outside of our own boxes to find relationship and meaning with others who are stepping out of their boxes too.

We recorded Episode 7, Leaderfull: Failing into Relationship, on October 6, 2022 and it features Rev. Dr. Anthony Scott and Rev. Erin Gilmore, who were, at the time of recording, co-associate ministers of the Rocky Mountain Conference United Church of Christ. Less than a week before its scheduled airing, we received word that Anthony's employment with the conference had been terminated. In order to release this episode with integrity, we felt compelled to address this termination , so we invited Anthony back to the conversation so that he could talk about his experience. What you will hear in this episode is first, the entirety of our initial conversation with Anthony and Erin, recorded October 6, 2022, and then a follow-up conversation with Anthony and Rev. Chris Gilmore, a representative of the Rocky Mountain Conference Anti-Racist Team, which was recorded on November 25.

Episode 6, My Mama's Preaching, features Rev. Melech E. M. Thomas, a senior pastor, community organizer, and scholar with a heart for liberation, creativity, and African-centered theology. Rev. Melech was one of the youngest inductees into the 35th class of the illustrious Morehouse College Martin Luther King, Jr. International Board of Preachers. On October 10, 2015, he was selected to give the opening Christian prayer at the 20th Anniversary of the Million Man March, making him the youngest speaker on that day's program. His prophetic voice and his insightful commentary have been sought after by local, national, and international media outlets such as CNN's Anderson Cooper 360, CNN International, ABC News' “This Week”, CBS' “The Early Show”, PBS' and print publications like The Washington Post, The Baltimore Sun, The Boston Herald, Buzzfeed, Black College Wire. Recently he published an article called “Why I Am No Longer Interested In Being A “Preacher” in the Christian Recorder. We talk about how Melech's mother helped him to develop his philosophy of democratizing power within the church, and how that democratization changes how you preach and lead a congregation.

In this episode, we are joined by Kate Eaton. Kate founded Mishkah in January 2010. Mishkhah is grounded in the beauty and wonder of the tradition, sacraments and architecture of Anglicanism. Kate brings her experience in directing the arts and music. Since founding Mishkhah, Kate has partnered with churches, conventions, conferences and a seminary to share her experience in creating worship environments. Her passion lies in returning to the rhythm of the liturgy and to spiritual practices that have shaped people's lives over centuries. We talk about contemporary and traditional worship practices that can help people to connect with the divine. To learn more about Kate's work visit: www.mishkhah.com

In today's episode, Lean on Me, we talk with Dr. Traci C. West. Dr West is Associate Professor of Ethics and African American Studies at Drew University Theological School. She is the author of Disruptive Christian Ethics: When Racism and Women's Lives Matter, among many other books. She has served on the editorial board of Journal for the Society of Christian Ethics, as co-editor of the Journal of Feminist Studies in Religion, and on the Society of Christian Ethics Professional Conduct Committee. Traci is an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church. To learn more about Dr. West, check out: tracicwest.com

In this third episode of Season 7, we hear from Tim Burnette, Founder/Core Curator of Way Collective. Tim is a dreamer, philosopher, and theologian. He has spent years reflecting on the evolving Christian faith, and earned his doctorate from Claremont School of Theology, where he studied process metaphysics, philosophy and theology, and compassion. He currently curates Way Collective, which is a community of shared practices and values. Where they believe that a way of living is at the heart of the Christian wisdom path. whereas much of religion is complicit in systems of exclusion and oppression, they gather around practices and values that lead us to life And they see that these practices and values can be shared by people from diverse traditions, religious paths, and non-religious philosophies. To learn more about Way Collective check out waycollective.org

In this second episode, Working within the Fragments we hear from Dr. Kristina Lizardy-Hajbi. Kristina shares her perspective on intersectional feminism as a professor and minister and through her various intersectional lenses. Dr. Kristina is the Director of the Office of Professional Formation and Assistant Professor of Leadership and Formation at Iliff School of Theology. She also co-directs the Doctor of Ministry in Prophetic Leadership and coordinates the Certificate in Latinx Studies for the Iliff/DU Joint Ph.D. in the Study of Religion. She is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ and received her MDiv from Iliff and PhD from the University of Colorado in Educational Leadership, Research, and Policy. Kristina's previous ministry roles span the areas of undergraduate multicultural student affairs, hospital chaplaincy, congregational and young adult faith formation, and denominational leadership. Dr. Kristina has extensively worked on de/postcolonial theory, frameworks, and practices. You can access links to her publications on our website.

In this first episode of Season 7, Dismantling PMS, we hear from Dr. Irie Session. Dr. Irie is the pastor of The Gathering a Womanist church, the CEO of DreamBIG Coaching & Consulting, and the author several books. Dr. Irie shares the story of the womanist church she started, the difference between the meaning of womanist and feminist, and bits and pieces of liturgy that you are going to want to practice.

Our guest for Episode six is M Barclay, the director and co-founder of Enfleshed. Enfleshed is one of our favorite resources for liturgy, prayers, and other words, because of the focus on collective liberation. In this episode, Words Shape Worlds, we spend a lot of time discussing deconstruction and the ways we can reconstruct through fostering interconnection.

In Episode 5, Presence Rather than Perfection, Marta, Mandy & Lillie talk to Omar El-Hawagi, a screenwriter, employment discrimination attorney, and co-founder of the inclusive, spiritual Muslim organization, Grassroot Islam. Omar brings a presence and joy that we can't wait to share with you.

In today's episode, Creativity is Code Word for God, Marta and Lillie speak with Rabbi Adina Allen, a spiritual leader, writer and social innovator. Adina is the co-founder and Creative Director of the Jewish Studio Project, and Bay area based organization that uses art making as a tool for Jewish learning, self-discovery and social change. Adina share how her community uses art to foster interconnection, both in person and online.

In Episode 3 of Season 6, The Sacred is Always Here, we talk with Rev. Jen Crow & Rev. Arif Mamdani, pastors of First Universalist in Minneapolis, Minnesota, about the ways they are breaking down the patriarchy and decolonizing their congregation, in partnership with their leaders. We talk about the ways the sacred shows up in such amazing ways, and what is emerging in this moment in time, and how it connects us together.

In this Second episode of season 6 called, To See and Be Seen, Marta, Mandy & Lillie talk about Rev. Jen Butler, a UCC minister in Corvallis, Oregon, at First Congregational United Church of Christ where she has been a co-conspirator in the work of community and restoration since 2010. In the last three years, a focus of her ministry has been as a community organizer at the intersections of poverty and housing and as founder of the SafePlace program where she tries to live in-service to those experiencing houselessness by cultivating communities of belonging. Jen shares the ways her work fosters interconnection with her neighborhood and beyond.

In this first episode of season 6, Make Holy Sparks Fly, Marta & Mandy chat with Lillie Benowitz about why she's joining our team this season, her in-between time, and how she came to be a relationship weaver and space builder. What we love most about Lillie is her desire to create containers for connection. In this episode, we will get to know Lillie better and be inspired to create containers for connection, too!

Our country, and our world, is so divided, especially following this global pandemic. What is the church's role in finding common ground, while still upholding our values? How do we build relationships with people who are so different than we are? How do we protect the “least of these” when we can't even agree on basic human rights? Marta and Mandy don't have a whole lot of answers, but in this final episode of Season 5, they attempt to hold space for these challenging questions. With challenging questions posed by BFCC matriarchs Leslie & Cindy, they discuss the need to do our own inner work and examining our own systems of power and privilege that turn us away from the ways of Jesus.

Marta & Mandy are back after a break in season 5 to discuss another big question from church member Levi: the church and patriarchy. As Levi says, patriarchy might be considered the church's "original sin" from which all other forms of oppression stem. How do we turn over the tables in the church and the world to right the wrongs of patriarchy over millennia?

Marta, Mandy & Roger have an in depth conversation with author Frank Schaeffer about his new book, "Fall in Love, Have Children, Stay Put, Save the Planet, Be Happy." They talk about the ways capitalism fails families, and the way the church falls into the same traps. They consider ways that the church and other societal structures and institutions can truly support the families in their midst. Frank is a delightful human and a vibrant guest who, in true JHLTB fashion, leaves us with more questions than answers.

Rev. Pedro Silva asks Marta and Mandy about why as Christians, we are so afraid of death, even though we believe in resurrection. The conversation that ensues brings even more questions to light, as we turn over tables, check under rocks, and truly explore one of the deepest held tenets of our Christian tradition.

In many churches, leadership structures stifle creativity and innovation. How do we get outside the box to create more fluid structures that honor all people's gifts - ministers, church staff, and lay people alike? Marta and Mandy explore Acts 16:10-15, and the ways Paul and Lydia lead their communities as they reflect on this question from guest Corina Hurst.

Season 5, Turning Over Tables, focuses on questions about “THE CHURCH" as we dive deep about why the church is the way it is.Episode 1 starts strong with challenging us to think about why the church so rarely engages in the kind of bold, risky behaviors Jesus did when he flipped over the tables in the temple, pushing out the commerce in that holy space.We hope to liberate ourselves from structures and systems that no longer serve us as we talk about the hard questions. When we talk about hard things and make transparent what is not working, we might just dare to change it. The things that we hide or keep secret are the things that get neglected and will not transform. Transformation only happens with care and attention. And, we are in the transforming business.

In the final episode of Season 4, Follow Me and Subscribe, Marta and Mandy are joined by Starlette Thomas. Starlette is a self-described "Grumpy Ol' Prophet," and her podcast, The Raceless Gospel, takes her listeners to church and to a virtual church where she and her guests tackle that taboo trinity— race, religion and politics.

In the penultimate episode of Season 4, Marta and Mandy chat with Leslie Sheley, member of Black Forest Community Church, and creator of the Instagram page ilovebarbies31. Leslie shares with us the lives of her Barbie friends who do wildly creative and deeply important work in their world.

Marta and Mandy talk with Doug Pagitt, CEO and founder of Vote Common Good, about the ways they use social media to make their ministry happen, and about how producing lots of content can help everyone to find a point of entry.