Podcasts about ron there

What you'll learn in this episode: Why people collect jewelry even if they have no intention of wearing it How understanding the historical context of a piece of antique jewelry can increase your enjoyment of it Why if you only invest in one vintage piece, it should showcase the quintessential style of the period Why interest in estate jewelry has skyrocketed How to choose a reputable dealer About Ron Kawitzky Ronald Kawitzky, with his late wife, Sherry Kawitzky, is the founder of estate jewelry firm DK Bressler. The young husband and wife team began their treasure hunts searching for the very finest jewels and rare collectible objects at markets and fairs across the country, and later expanded their travels around the world — throughout Europe and the far edges of the globe, including Ronald's native South Africa. The two developed a defining style and built a collection of brilliant jewelry spanning a broad array of stylistic periods from antiquity to the 21st century. This collection evolved into the DK Bressler brand, named after Ronald's mother, Doreen Kawitzky, and Sherry's mother, Selma Bressler. Together the couple set up shop in New York City's Diamond District in 1990, while continuing to scour the globe for unique treasures to bring back home. While Sherry passed away in 2001, Ronald continues their legacy, finding the very best jewels and gemstones that fit their shared style. Additional Resources: DK Bressler's Website DK Bressler's Instagram Photos:   Ron Kawitzky didn't set out to become a jewelry dealer, but like many collectors, once he started buying antique and estate jewelry, he couldn't stop. His passion for jewelry (and the history behind it) led him to found the estate jewelry firm DK Bressler with his wife, Sherry. He joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about what qualities collectors should look for when purchasing antique jewelry; how to choose a reputable dealer; and why you should always buy jewelry that excites you. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. Here at the Jewelry Journey, we're about all things jewelry. With that in mind, I wanted to let you know about an upcoming jewelry conference, which is “Beyond Boundaries: Jewelry of the Americas.” It's sponsored by the Association for the Study of Jewelry and Related Arts, or, as it's otherwise known, ASJRA. The conference takes place virtually on Saturday and Sunday May 21 and May 22, which is around the corner. For details on the program and the speakers, go to www.jewelryconference.com. Non-members are welcome. I have to say that I attended this conference in person for several years, and it's one of my favorite conferences. It's a real treat to be able to sit in your pajamas or in comfies in your living room and listen to some extraordinary speakers. So, check it out. Register at www.jewelryconference.com. See you there. Today, my guest is Ron Kawitzky, owner and founder of the estate jewelry firm DK Bressler, which is based in New York. Ron's choices for his wares are fueled by his knowledge and his passion for history. That's pretty evident when you look at his exhibits at tradeshows and elsewhere. Today, we'll learn about Ron's own jewelry journey as well as the estate jewelry market yesterday and today. Ron, welcome to the program. Ron: Good morning, Sharon. Nice to speak to you. Sharon: It's so great to have you. Tell us about your jewelry journey. Were you creative as a child? How did you get into jewelry? Ron: I was actually creative as a child. I was an arts major at school. I dumped mathematics for artwork, which I much preferred. I won all kinds of awards for that, but I was a history buff too. Between the two, knowing about jewelry periods just seemed natural and normal to me. Sharon: How did you segue? What did your family say when you said, “I want to be a jeweler” or “I want to go into the arts”? Ron: My father said, “You can't make a living on that.” For birthdays and holidays, you got a piece of jewelry, but you couldn't make a living out of buying one or two pieces of jewelry a year. He wasn't aware of London and New York as centers for the jewelry trade and profession. He was not ecstatic about it at all, but I've been collecting and buying and trading since I was young, so it seemed quite normal and natural to me. Sharon: So, you were involved even though your bent was towards art. At the same time, you were collecting jewelry and enjoying it. Ron: Yes, very much so. I always liked collecting things. I was kind of a nerdy kid. I bought everything from paintings to silver to small jewelry when I could find them. There was no appreciation back in those days, which was diamonds or nothing. Sharon: You went into accounting, though, right? Ron: Yes, isn't that awful? It's public now, but I would normally deny that entirely. Sharon: Well, you can make a living in accounting, at least here in the States. It seems a little bit of a dichotomy to me, jewelry and accounting. Tell us, your firm is called DK Bressler. Obviously, that's not your name. How did that name come about? Ron: My last name is Kawitzky, which people can't spell. It's K-a-w-i-t-z-k-y. In order to try to avoid terminal problems and whatever else, we picked my late wife's name. My late wife's mother's name was Bressler, and my mother's name was DK. It worked out that way. Sharon: When did you establish your business? Ron: I established the business in 1990, 1989, or something like that. It's been fantastic ever since, frankly. Sharon: Along the way did you study jewelry? Did you continue to deal in jewelry when you were in the corporate world? Ron: No, I bought jewelry as gifts and presents for my wife. I always loved dealing with it and playing with it. From the age of 13 I went to London with my parents, and I remember my mother had a friend in the jewelry trade. I would sit in their apartment and open a bag, and all these colors and stones would come flying out of the bag. I was always intrigued, and I was 13 at the time. This seemed great. So the idea that I could make a living out of it when I got older was very exciting for me. Sharon: Was it always in the back of your mind as a second career if you stopped doing accounting? For me, it would be if I couldn't take it anymore. Ron: I really quit the day I graduated from accounting school. It was a seven-year master's program. I couldn't tell you one thing. The next day, I was so unmoored. I think I have a left brain, not a right brain. It went more towards style and beauty and stuff like that. Sharon: Seven years, wow! Ron: Columns of figures didn't do it for me. Sharon: So, tell us how you opened your business. Did you open the door and say, “I'm here”? Did you have inventory? How did you do that? Ron: That is one of those critical moments that your life changes. It turns on a little occurrence you don't give full credit to, but life is not a straight, linear thing. It evolves in twists and turns. At some point in my existence, in the 80s, I found myself unemployed, probably unemployable as well. It was a very difficult time, and my wife said to me, “You've talked about the jewelry business for your whole life. Maybe it's time to finally get your hands dirty and take a chance and commit.” So, we did, with a lot of help from her, of course, and it worked. Sharon: That's a good point you made, several good points, about the fact that life is not linear. I guess to some people it might be. Ron: But wouldn't that be boring? You don't know what's around the corner. Sharon: I was thinking of the description somebody once told me about their brother who had made a lot of money. He just kept rising up the corporate ranks, and they said he led an "enchanted" life. So, he had a straight line, in a sense. Ron: Yes. Sharon: Did you open your business here or in South Africa? Ron: No, I grew up in South Africa but I'd left South Africa a long time ago by then. I opened it over here. I had a rucksack. I put three or four things in a bag and paid calls on Madison Avenue and 47th Street, at the infamous 10 West 47th Street. It was the center of the whole antique estate trade. Sharon: Who are your clients today? Who do you sell to? Who buys from you? Ron: Social media is one of them. Thank God, we have a great reputation and a history that goes back since 1990, which is already a long time ago. People call us when they want things, certain styles they need to source. We put it together, or we do shows and meet new people. We do travel a lot. I travel to Europe, to England, in America as well. Sharon: During the lockdown- maybe you did travel- but how did you manage? Ron: People were very willing to buy. They were happy to buy. I kept them in contact and in touch. Collectors are collectors. There were even more collecting types because they wanted to amuse themselves when Covid was in full flow. Sharon: Ron, what do you consider a collector? There's no real answer, but I'm always curious. What do you consider a collector? Ron: It's quite amazing. If you're buying something like Louis Comfort Tiffany, in many cases, it's men who collect things. They have no intention of their wives ever wearing it, but they love the object. They love the history. They like everything about it, and they'll buy it for their collections. He has since passed on, but I had one collector who would frame the pieces I sold him and hang them up in his bedroom. He would have a wall full of the most glorious jewelry by Tiffany, by Castellani, by Giuliano, necklaces and bracelets and things, and no one would know what they were worth. It was quite amazing. He had no expectation of wearing anything; he just loved the piece and appreciated it. Sharon: How about the women who buy from you? Do you have any women collectors? Ron: Yes, very much so. Women want to wear the pieces or fantasize about wearing the pieces, so that adds another dimension to it, which is nice. Sharon: How does history influence what you choose when you're looking at another dealer's pieces, or whoever you're buying from? How does history influence what you choose? Ron: Because I was a history buff, it was so exciting to find a piece of jewelry with certain motifs or illusions to, I don't know, Queen Victoria's Jubilee in 1901 or something. it's interesting to see how people relate to these pieces. They feel part of the whole, storied past. People want to be part of a historical event. It sets you in time. It sets you in romance. It sets you in all kinds of things. Sharon: When it comes to history and historic jewels, do you have a particular time period, like ancient gems? Is there a particular time period where you start or stop? Ron: Yes. Roman cameos are wonderful, interesting to collect, but not always fully appreciated, not always fully understood. It's a very esoteric, arcane business, and it's subject to fraud and other things since you're carving with a natural stone. But if you make a study of it and you know a little bit about Greek or Roman mythology, it makes sense. Suddenly you're a part of something going back 1,000 to 1,500 years, and that's very exciting. It places you in history. Sharon: When you say that some people don't appreciate it, are you talking about people who say, “It's just another cameo,” or “I don't get it”? Ron: It's the equivalent of—and forgive me for saying this—putting the painting over the couch in the living room. It matches the color. It's there because it's beautiful, not because the green of the drapes matches the green of the carpet. Do you know what I mean? The jewelry is more important than anything else. Sharon: If someone is looking at two pieces but one has a history behind it, are you saying people will go for that? Will they say, “Oh, this one fits me better”? How does that work? Ron: How typical it is for the period? That's what you want. If you would like a piece of 1960s jewelry, it should be the quintessential piece. It should be by someone like Andrew Grima. You want somebody who understands context; otherwise, it might not mean all that much. You can just buy something for its beauty, too, but context is nice. If you understand anything about art and history, and you look at a piece of Andrew Grima's work, you understand it. There's a synergy. There's a joint thing there with Jackson Pollock, who also dripped oil onto canvas. I've seen gold dripped onto a piece of jewelry effectively. You know what I mean? It's not a very elegant way to put it, but you need the best for its time. Everything is classical in the right sense. Sharon: What do you think people should look for when they want to buy a piece of estate jewelry? Just, “Oh, this is interesting,” or should they be looking at value? Ron: It should be, “This is interesting.” You have to love it. It's like buying a share. You have to have faith in the company you're buying a share in. It's not just a question of buying something I don't believe in, because if things change, tastes change, you might not fully realize it, but it might take years to be worth its value again. Sharon: The dealers, or the people who are selling their own jewelry or buying from dealers, do they understand and appreciate the history? Ron: That's where we come in. We try and explain where it came from, what was happening in the world at the time. Is it a piece of industrial Deco jewelry? Do we know that it's 1930s, 1940s? The world was at war. It has a context. You want something to collect from the time. You wouldn't want to buy a flower brooch in 1942. It wouldn't really much sense, would it? Sharon: It's always interesting to know what the history is or to have a part of history when you're choosing a piece of jewelry as opposed to just—not even an interesting piece of jewelry, but— Ron: You need to educate yourself, and you need to pass it onto the client who wants to be told. He has every right to be told, “This is what makes this a fine piece, and that's not.” You do have to love the piece. You want to wear it; you want to enjoy it. That goes without saying. It is the prime mover of the whole thing, but once you pass that, you need to know details; you need to study. Sharon: And what do you think about today when people are looking at jewelry? What do you think is the most popular when people are looking at your jewelry? Are they looking at brooches? Are they looking at rings? Ron: Rings are probably the first seller. Rings and earrings are always the first, followed by bracelets, I would think, and ending up with brooches. Other dealers always say brooches never sell. I find that we sell brooches all the time. They're beautiful objects, even if they're not worn that much. I used to have a client who put the brooches on her lampshade next to her bed. She had a whole lampshade full of them. She just loved looking at them. When the light came through, she was so excited. It was a pleasure. Sharon: There are fabulous brooches around, yes. Do you find a difference between the coasts in what people are interested in? Ron: Yes. It's a little bit low on brooches on the coasts because you're wearing thinner dresses. In Palm Beach, you wouldn't wear giant, heavy brooches because it would drag down the silk that you're wearing. Even having said that, the ladies that wear brooches are probably also wearing Chanel and heavy fabric to go out for lunch and elsewhere. Sharon: You do need some substance behind it in order to have a brooch. Ron: Yes. Sharon: There are tricks to get that substance, even on a T-shirt. So, why is there more interest in estate jewelry today? Do you think there is, and if so, why? Ron: Very much so, as evidenced by the fact that there's not too much stuff around. We've really been battling to find fresh inventory. Part of it is because a lot of it is sold these days through the auction houses instead of being sold through dealers. It seems to be a push towards the auction houses. Sharon: Are you finding it more of a challenge today to find pieces? Ron: Yeah, very much so. Either people don't need to sell, or these are prosperous times. Sharon: Do you buy through auction houses? Ron: Very, very little. I have a few things that I need that I'll track down. The auction house can be very helpful, but mainly you want pieces that haven't passed through those storied doors. People want privacy to a large extent as well. Some people want privacy. They want to buy; they don't want the whole world to see what they paid for things. Sharon: That's a good point. During the lockdown—it seems you were online a lot more through Covid. Ron: Yeah, we had to get more into that because I'm a little bit lost that way. I can't fully understand the internet and what you can do with it, but luckily, I have good helpers that help me do that stuff. It doesn't come naturally to me. I'm still stuck in the past history-wise. Sharon: I think it doesn't come naturally to a lot of people, including people like boomers on the tail end of the baby boom. It's overwhelming in terms of what there is to learn and how fast it changes. Ron: It's amazing, isn't it? Anyway, we found ourselves sitting in front of the computer monitor. People called up for things, and we were shipping out stuff from all over the place, which was wonderful. Sharon: Somebody would call you up for something, and you could look on Instagram or different sites to find it? Ron: Our own site would bring people in. Sharon: I was looking at your site last night. Is there a lot more you have? Ron: Yes, we have ten million things, it seems like. What you see online is probably half of a half of a percent. We have things in every category, every range. Buying is the treat, as everyone knows, and collecting and organizing things and curating is exciting to me, too. I have different collections of different things. I guess it shows if somebody's looking for something. We have copies and duplicates; not copies of jewelry, but similar pieces in duplicate because we loved it. If a piece is in great condition and exciting, it's worth buying. Sharon: Do you find more pieces that are worthwhile from a historic perspective over in Europe? Do you find them in people's safe deposit boxes around the country? Where do you find those? Ron: You never know where the next piece is coming from, Sharon. It's amazing. Overseas is one thing, because there's a much greater appreciation for estate and antique jewelry in Europe, I believe, than even in America, but you're going to beat the bushes a little bit and try to get things from your suppliers. There's always something coming out. Sharon: Do you think there's more appreciation of estate jewelry abroad because people here like shiny new things? Ron: That, to an extent. They've been spoiled. They treat jewelry as an accessory. I find that the Germans, the English, buy things more as an heirloom piece. They want to pass it onto a grandchild or something. They look at it differently, whereas we look at it as more decorative, completely decorative. You buy it and you get bored with it, and the wedding is over and you can't deal with this piece again. You move, and there are people who'll sell a piece of jewelry. Whereas the Europeans have considered it very carefully and look at the long term, thank goodness; otherwise, there would be nothing left altogether to buy. Sharon: That's interesting and makes sense. Not to denigrate anything or anyone, but jewelry has to be pretty. Whether it's historic or not, it has to be something you like, whether you're going to pass it on or whether you think it's going to be sold to another dealer. It has to be pretty. Ron: That's the first thing I said. You've got to love it. You have to enjoy it. You must think of it as a piece of pleasure that you're wearing on your chest, which is lovely. Sharon: I'm always interested in this question, Ron. What is the catalyst that got you to switch? You said you were unemployed, but switching from accounting to opening your own estate jewelry business is a huge step in my book. Was there something? Did your boss come in and say, “I want this by tomorrow”? Ron: Now, you asked me a long question. I need to lie down on the couch, probably, to answer this question. I was in a public company we founded that was very successful. Then came the stock market in the late 80s. If you recall, everyone lost their money. We lost our second go-around for money. It was a long story, but effectively, that was really it. In the food business, we came up with an idea that was very lucrative, and it worked very well, but no one was buying anything in the late 80s in the stock market. So, I found myself available, as I said. Sharon: Some people have a business, but they're on Ruby Lane, or you see them at the shows on weekends buying and selling jewelry. Were you doing that? Was that in the background? Ron: We always bought things. We always knew some dealers, and we'd go and tour these antique shows on the weekends. There used to be many more of them in New York. You'd meet people and find things and dabble a little bit, but it was always just buying. We never did any selling because whatever we bought, we liked. I still have those early pieces I bought when I wasn't even that familiar with them. It really made a big difference. I never stopped enjoying that, and it came in very handy. When I found myself unemployed, I started selling the things I'd collected. That got me in the business that way, through the back door. Sharon: I think you said an important point about the fact that there are not as many antique fairs right now. It's partly Covid, but are they just waning? Was this something that was going on before Covid, that there are fewer antique fairs? Ron: There were so many. There were two or three every weekend in Westchester and Long Island. We would travel all over the place in those days. When the kids were young, we'd bundle them up and go spend money. I guess we chose well, because you'd sit in a little auction house storefront in Queens somewhere, and you'd buy a little pair of earrings for $120 and it seemed magical. By the time we got home, we'd be so nervous. “Oh my god, is this the right way? Is it the wrong thing to buy?” Then Monday morning you'd rush off to 47th Street and sell and make 30 percent of your money, and you'd say, “That was easy. I could do this again.” Confidence just gets built on confidence, and it worked, thank goodness. Sharon: Wow! I give you a lot of credit. Some of the things I look for when I'm buying a piece of estate jewelry are, besides the fact that I should love it, that it has to be in good condition. Do you need to be somebody who's worked with jewelry to know that? Ron: Condition is important because that could impact the future of the piece after a year or two. It should be correct for the time, correct for the period. It's really important, and you should get pleasure out of it. The prime thing is to enjoy it, wear it with excitement, and you'll get many years of pleasure out of it. Sharon: I think it's really important to wear it with excitement, like, “Oh, my gosh, this is so fabulous! Look at this!” I'm thinking of dealers who have sold to me, and I felt like they were selling as opposed to somebody who—I know when I've looked at some of your pieces, you explain where they came from or why they're important. Is that what we should be looking for? Ron: Yes, very much so. It's a good question that you asked, Sharon. I think it's important for a dealer to be reputable. They should be steeped in knowledge about what they're buying or selling. You find out more about your car before you buy it; you should find out about the wonderful piece of jewelry. It's of equal value in many cases. Sharon: I'm thinking about some of the pieces I've seen which you've shown, a fabulous pair of cameo earrings. Ron: Yes. Sharon: It sounds like you're saying the dealer has to be the first line in terms of educating somebody. Ron: That's so well put. It's exactly right, but you've got to do your own work. You should ask them for a write-up on an invoice, and probably in most cases, these things should be appraised for insurance purposes. It's important to understand what you're buying. It's an arcane, esoteric world, and people should be careful. Sharon: How do I know if I'm buying from somebody reputable, let's say I go to the Miami Show in January or February, which is huge in that there are so many dealers. What should I look for? How do I know that somebody's reputable? Ron: Look at the other pieces the dealer has in his showcase. You'll see the kind of pieces he gets. Most people are just buying gold for gold and not of an age and not of a period. It might not mean anything to them, and it might not mean anything for the customer, but I'm saying to enjoy the piece more profoundly, steep yourself in knowledge of the piece and the age and the epoch. I think that's really important, and condition is everything. Sharon: That's a good point, having brought several pieces that I purchased from other dealers that I took to the repair shop several times. The condition is very important. Ron: Welcome me back, and we'll talk about it for as long as you want. I can't think of anything more fun than discussing a piece. I love it. It's exciting to me, and I like transmitting the excitement to the next person. Sharon: You have several pieces you've shown me in the past. I could feel your excitement. They weren't pieces that called to me so much, but I could feel your excitement in it. Ron: I still enjoy it. I still get excited every time somebody brings a piece. You could look at it again and study again and discover something new about it, and that's the thrill. It connects us to our whole history, to the whole background, to literature. It makes sense. If you understand it, you'll get more pleasure out of it, like anything else. Sharon: That's a very good point. Ron: Thank you so much, Sharon, it's very nice of you to include me in your podcast. Sharon: Thank you very much, Ron. Ron: You are so welcome, and thank you. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.

Our guest today is Ron Schneidermann, CEO at AllTrails, the ultimate guide for outdoor adventures. AllTrails was early to the consumer subscription space, launching a $3/month premium tier way back in 2012. Ron joined as CMO and COO in 2015, and then took over as CEO in 2019, helping to grow AllTrails to over 1 million subscribers and tens of millions of active users worldwide.On the podcast, we talk with Ron about the magic of consumer subscriptions, experimenting with freemium strategies, and how private equity isn't always as bad as you've been led to believe.In this episode, you'll learn: How to refine and optimize your freemium strategy Two things you need to keep an eye on as a founder The pros & cons of outside funding vs. organic growth How Ron fast-tracked AllTrails' profitability Links & Resources Accenture Hotwire Yelp Liftopia Alex Honnold Spectrum Equity Ron Schneidermann's Links Ron Schneidermann's LinkedIn page AllTrails Celebrates 1 Million Paid Subscribers! (January press release) AllTrails' website AllTrails is hiring Follow AllTrails on Twitter Follow us on Twitter: David Barnard Jacob Eiting RevenueCat Sub Club Episode Transcript00:00:00 David:Our guest today is Ron Schneidermann, CEO at AllTrails, the ultimate guide for outdoor adventures, AllTrails was early to the consumer subscription space, launching a $3 per month premium tier, way back in 2012. Ron joined as CMO and COO in 2015, and then took over as CEO in 2019, helping to grow AllTrails to over 1 million subscribers and tens of millions of active users world.On the podcast, we talk with Ron about the magic of consumer subscriptions, experimenting with freemium strategies, and how private equity isn't always as bad as you've been led to believe.Hey, Ron! Welcome to the podcast. 00:00:59 Ron:Thanks for having me.00:01:00 David:Yeah. Really looking forward to the chat today. I wanted to kick it off, and most people know what AllTrails is, and it's a fantastic brand. It kind of tells you what it is right there on the tin. What's your pitch? We're in 2021, post pandemic.Give us the short version of what AllTrails is. What does it mean? 00:01:21 Ron:Yeah. So AllTrails is a free app and website that helps you find trails all over the globe, so you can spend more time enjoying the outdoors, and spending time in nature.00:01:34 David:That's awesome.00:01:35 Jacob:That's a very nice mission. That's way more beautiful than helping developers make more money. Both are important, but I can smell that. It smells, “piney” and I like it.00:01:46 David:Yeah, it smells like the Colorado forest. I haven't been hiking forever, and doing all the research to chat with you today was like, oh man, I need to go hiking more.00:01:55 Ron:I heard there's a great app for that.00:01:57 David:I heard that.So, I did want to also ask about your journey to AllTrails. You got there fairly early, and then grew in, and you're now CEO. Tell me, off the bat, what led you to AllTrails way back in 2015 when it was just six people?00:02:20 Ron:Yeah. To answer that I'm going to go a little bit further back in time. My first job right after college was at Accenture, at a global management consulting firm. It was great. A good jumping off point, and I learned a ton. I didn't know anything going into that job. You know, you get the rubber stamp and it opens doors.By the end of my third year there, I kind of had a realization. Epifany is a little too strong a word, but I just kind kinda realized I can't take a job just for money again. The amount of time and energy that I was putting into it, and the lack of work-life balance, it really made me rethink who I want to be. Who does working Ron want to be?So, I was able to parlay that Accenture job into a biz dev role over at Hotwire, an online travel company. That was really where it opened my eyes. Like, I am so much happier, and I am honestly so much better when I'm working at something that I'm just personally passionate about.That guiding principle has really held through throughout my career trajectory. From Hotwire, I want to do my own startup in the ski space. I love to ski. So, I did that for nine years. It was a ton of fun. Then I was over at Yelp, doing growth for a bit. I love finding non-chain restaurants, and supporting mom and pop businesses, and stuff. I live in Yelp, so that was great.Then, when the opportunity for AllTrails presented itself, it was just kind of a no-brainer. Of course I'm going to take this.I'll say this to you, one little addendum, one of the things I learned along the way, too. I am not a zero to one guy. That is not when I am at my best. It just causes me stress and anxiety, and just, figuring out how to keep the lights on for another day.So, again, knowing kind of that sense of self knowing. Like, alright, I'm best at B to C. I'm at my best when I'm using products I personally want to use and like talking about. I like hypergrowth, and I think that's probably my sweet spot.So, it starts to all align when AllTrials showed up.00:04:34 David:Yeah. And then how did that go from? You joined the company as COO, right? And then, what was the progression inside the company to eventually taking over as CEO?00:04:45 Ron:Yeah. So if you want to demo and COO, I dunno why I really wanted to have both, like, I didn't want to just be CMO in a vacuum, but not have any ownership or agency over kind of team composition and strategy and stuff. So I thought that it was really. Really important. And when you're a six person company, it's pretty easy to grab titles.It's not like how to take it from anyone.00:05:08 Jacob:I was going to ask, like, I mean, it's, it's not like you see this a lot where it's like a six person company and they had like five C-levels and you're like, okay. Yeah, sure. Like, like my title, for example. But like, I'm kind of curious, like, you know, you like your background, you founded a company, like you were like a real CX whatever.Right? Like it's not like it was fake. So how did, how did that, how did you go as like an executive, like choosing your next thing? That'd be a hell of a pitch to get you to like join a tiny little like, team like that.00:05:36 Ron:You know, I think I, I spent a lot of time thinking through again. I don't know, I, to be perfectly honest, I was, I was a little bit bored at the end of my tenure at Yelp. I love Yelp. It's a great company, but it was just, it was too big for me. And so I spent a lot of time thinking through what's next again?That whole question, like zero to one. Do I need, do I need to start something myself or what? So the smallness didn't bother me. I actually really liked the smallness cause it was almost like, it was almost like a cheat code. Like I got to do a startup, like basically from scratch, but I didn't have to do it from scratch.And then.00:06:09 Jacob:They had, they had a kernel of something at00:06:11 Ron:They did, they did. And you know, it was actually to, to give my predecessor credit. It was, it was actually more than that. Like they had, they had solid product market fit from a monetization perspective. And then what really got me across the line with their product channel. And I feel like that's often overlooked and that's something you kind of pick up in time.Like it's not just like, is this a product people are willing to pay money for, but just straight up, how are you going to get this out to market? And can you, can you do it in a way that is, you know, viable and scalable and, and ultimately, you know, going to be, be more efficient than, you know, it's kind of like net out, right?Like the whole LTV to CAC thing and everything that00:06:49 Jacob:Yeah. It's, it's something more efficient than paying for every single install. Right.00:06:53 Ron:Exactly. And so. You know, I, it felt like there was good bones, you know, maybe it was like a fixer upper kind of house. but it had good bones, like it had, it had the foundation in place. And I could see, you know, back in 2015, the product sucked, it sucked. and, and what was shocking after I came was how bad the data was.I didn't realize that when I was kind of doing my own diligence, but it was00:07:20 Jacob:You mean like analytics on the internally, what the company knew about itself or you mean like the, the, the trail00:07:25 Ron:The trail data, like the trail data that we were showing, you know, and that's that's subs high consequence. and so that was like a hard pivot, within a couple months, like, all right, this is, you know, all hands on deck thing.We're not doing anything else until we figure this out. but again, it just, it felt like there was a diamond in the rough, in this one. You know, I've been here six years now and I can say like, unequivocally, this is the highlight of my career. Maybe I just got lucky. I don't know. But, man, like, yeah, this has been a really, really great run so far.00:07:59 Jacob:I was just going to ask about the, that channel and monetization fit. I mean, I guess this was maybe I'm jumping ahead in our agenda here, but, but yeah, they were already charging a subscription before you got there. Right. And in terms of like monetization, maybe like describe that model a little bit and, and how that has changed.00:08:20 Ron:Yeah, I had never done this subscription business before coming here. So this was my first subscription business. And I'll tell you, you guys already know this. I'm sure your listeners already know this too. subscription businesses are magical. Oh my goodness. Compared to like e-commerce or you're trying to re when, you know, the transaction every single00:08:40 Jacob:I know I was looking at Hotwire just now, when you mentioned it. And I was just thinking about like, how many of those there were at that era, right? Like, and still are like, when you had to book a hotel on Google and they're like, oh, here's 15 different sites. You can actually like book it through it's like Wolf,00:08:53 Ron:Oh, so tough. Same with Liftopia. Liftopia the ski startup. There was the same thing. Right. you know, but, but with a much smaller niche and segment, and then, and then Yelp is, you know, they're, they're kind of the media model and then trying to, you know, kind of pivot more towards like B2B and subscriptions for businesses and value added services and stuff.And coming here doing a consumer subscription business, an annual subscription, the auto renew. It's like an annuity, like it just builds up every single year. Like obviously, like you can't take retention for granted and I'm sure we'll talk about that, but you know, just, if you're able to kinda, you know, do a, do a pretty good job on the retention side and you see this thing build up And just.Raise the tide every single year that I've been here and have it just, is that much more momentum that just gets like brought into each new fiscal year for us. It's just, it's incredible. It is incredible. the leverage that it offers. So that was cool. That was definitely a, 00:09:51 Jacob:One of those good bones.00:09:54 David:Yeah. And that's what I was going to ask you say the bones were good. Yeah, AllTrails had launched their subscription in 2012. So about three years before you joined, what was the state of that? And that's really early in the kind of consumer subscription software space. Was there a lot of push back was like, how was traction, chargebacks and things like that was the bones were there, but were there some serious doubts or questions in your mind as to how this subscription app space was going to play out? 00:10:28 Ron:Yeah, I mean, so can I share a secret with you guys? I honestly didn't know that our subscription business loss in 2012, until you guys showed me the research that you did leading up to this, I had always thought that, it launched with our ass. We launched our apps in, I think early 2015, I joined in September, 2018.And I just lumped everything together just in that, you know,00:10:53 Jacob:Yeah. It's yeah,00:10:54 Ron:Yeah. So I, I, I had always thought that it, that we had launched it when our apps launched, but I guess we were on the cutting edge, the bleeding edge, the subscription space here.00:11:05 Jacob:So, so, but that, then I'm, then I'm correct to assume that, you know, if you launched a description 2012 was on the web, if you didn't have apps until 20, 20, 15. Right. Right. Which, I mean, my, my experience, I guess I've been on old trails website, but like my vast majority of experience has been on the web.Right. Because I'm like, or sorry on the, on the phone because I'm going for a hike and I'm like, I need a map and like, boom, there's AllTrails. Right. Which I guess is that channel fit. You're talking about.00:11:27 Ron:Yeah. And that's been, that's been one of the cool things when I started. So a couple, a couple, I guess, data points, just to show like, sort of that, that snapshot in time of 2015, we probably had 20,000. subscribers at that point, maybe a million cumulative registered users since 2010, when we first launched and maybe 20,000 active paying subs.And in January of this year, we put out a press release. We don't normally do that, but it was two pretty cool milestones. We had cracked 25 million registered users and a million paying subs at the start of this. So, you know, again, like the, the, the unlock has been really cool and very, very powerful. but the other thing, like you said, like this was, you know, a web driven subscription business.At first, when I, when I first started here. probably 70% of our, of our web traffic was desktop desktop to mobile 70 30. And obviously that's inverted, since then, and then Mo the, the, the mobile apps, the native apps are by far the best form factor for what we're trying to do. Like you said, Jake would like take it with you on the go, the navigation, the GPS stuff, everything baked in there.And so that's become really the workhorses of, of subscription business and, and of our overall, UDC flat.00:12:42 Jacob:Yeah. I mean, it's so helpful. you guys have good SEO when you search a trail, it comes up on AllTrails. Right. But that's, I would imagine like this stage probably mostly like demand gen for the app,00:12:53 Ron:That's exactly it. No, that's exactly it. Right. So our se our legacy SEO, this is what, again, one of the beauties of being around for 11 years and counting, we have this amazing legacy SEO and that's, that was that product channel fit that brought me here was the sales pitch was he just showed me Google analytics.And he just like, look, look at all of this for your00:13:12 Jacob:Just like a hyper-local very valuable data, right. Index. And if you're, if you're the winner, that's a great real estate to00:13:20 Ron:I know. And, and so what we've been doing obviously as, sort of consumer behavior has changed and gone mobile first is, we're able to parlay all of that mobile first SEO traffic it's, incremental organic app installs, and that's a huge driver. Of our business. We get millions and millions of incremental app installs that we don't pay a dime for every mom's.00:13:42 Jacob:Yeah. And going back to your point, like yeah. Not having to push. Up the hill completely is a bit, you know, you think about a Compounding annuity analogy as you made, right? Like the cost of that compounding really, you know, if you net out the whole asset, right? Like that's going to be a big part of it is like, how much does it cost to push that that, that, that flywheel up a little bit. 00:14:02 Ron:It's a moat for business too, you know, you're around long enough and you're doing something good. You're going to see a ton of competitors start flooding into the space, which is great as validation of what we're doing, but the product market fit product channel fit conundrum is, is real.It's real. And you know, I see really great products, you know, beautifully designed products that just crank can't crack the code on either of those. And then they kind of, you know, whether on the line, right? Like see it all the time.00:14:31 David:No, that was actually my next question is that in those early days, and you already said when you joined and when y'all launched the apps in 2015, they were crap. So take me, how did you go from this crap up and what experimentation, what pain, what suffering did 00:14:53 Jacob:There's some, there's some old, there's some like a old guard at, at all trials that are going to listen to this and be like, crap. They were great.00:15:00 David:But what did it take and what was the approach to, to find you, you had some level of product market fit, but then to actually build a great product around those early signs. 00:15:12 Ron:There, there are a couple of philosophical things that we decided immediately. One was around funding. Do we want to go take funding, and try and do this faster? Do we want to do this kind of organically? And my predecessor had done a small seed round. I think he raised 3 million bucks in 2012.And we were still kind of drafting off of that. And then there was a little bit of subscription revenue and then a whole bunch of just, you know, classic entrepreneur head on the swivel stuff. Like let's throw a bunch of shit up on the wall. Like, let's see what we can do. So there's, you know, a media play and programmatic ads.Whatever, right. Just trying to buy time more than anything. Right? Like keep the servers running for a little bit longer. But we decided we very intentionally decided not to take funding. We wanted to control our own destiny. And part of it to be clear, part of it was the handshake agreement with the original founder, was to grow it and sell it.He wanted us to, to, to sell it. And so, so then if that was kind of the. The Mandy. And I was like, well, why would we even just, you know, deal with the, the opportunity cost and the headache of going out and trying to raise funds, as a pain in the ass. So, you know, it was like, let's just, let's put our heads00:16:22 Jacob:Especially, especially for our consumer subscription company in 2015, like00:16:27 Ron:Right? Yeah.00:16:28 Jacob:Ben kind of been party to that. It's not, it wasn't easy. Let's put it that way.00:16:32 Ron:Tried doing it in 2005, by the way I was with Liftopia was insane anyways. but so we decided to put our heads down and just say super scrappy, super scrappy, super lean. And so, it just came down to like relentless prioritization and essentially what we ended up doing was triaging sort of a different funnel metric each quarter.Right. So one quarter is. We've got to tackle bounce rate. All right. Now we've got to tackle signup rate and now we've got to tackle pro conversion rate. And now we've got to talk over attention and we just kind of spent cycles, through 2016 and through 2017, just each, each quarter, just like laser focus in on that one metric and do what we can and then move.And it worked because by the end of 2017, we actually achieved profitability. Which was cool, which was really, really great. You know, like we wanted again, when you've been around the block long enough, you talked to enough entrepreneurs, you've seen, you've seen enough. there's so many examples of people going and getting too much funding too soon, and then they develop bad habits, right?Yeah. Let's get a little hot in here. Is it.00:17:36 Jacob:I never heard of that.00:17:39 Ron:So, you know, but so you see it right? Like that you, you get the, unsustainable growth channels, again, the product channel fit question, like how are you actually going to bring this to market? And how are you going to do it when that VC money dries up? Like, is this actually00:17:50 Jacob:Five X that VC money, right.00:17:52 Ron:Right? Is this sustainable?Or you're just connecting yourself to the next round of00:17:56 Jacob:You can put yourself in a, in a dead man's corner, right. Where you're not your, market's not big enough, whatever you end up killing and otherwise like really great business,00:18:05 Ron:Totally. And I, you know, I'd seen that, I'd seen that. I really didn't want to do that here. It felt like because so much of our growth was coming through SEO. It felt like obviously there's an opportunity, which we later unlocked on the ASO side of things. It felt like even beyond both of those though, it's just like word of mouth and PR and viral loops and network effects.00:18:27 Jacob:Product market fit as a broad thing, right? Like growth kind of have you have a really good product and it serves a niche, like grit just starts to start to go.00:18:36 Ron:And especially organic growth, right? Like, and that was really the big key as like, do we need to be like one of these DTC companies and just raise millions of dollars for Instagram ads? Or can we, can we do something that's more sustainable for the long haul? And that was, that was one of the bats.The other big bet that we placed was, from a brand positioning perspective. You know, when I came in the app was definitely geared towards like the through hikers and search and rescue and, and the hardcore, like, you know, back country folks. And the challenge with, with, with that segment is that there's always these, you know, really esoteric and extreme product requirements that they want because they're they're edge cases.They're by definition, all edge cases. And in this space in particular, a lot of them. Kind of living the, you know, the van life, life, you know, trying to live as frugally as possible. and so they don't want to really pay you any money either. It's like this isn't a good growth segment. We got, we gotta rethink this one.And so, I've told this story a lot, you know, this strong man to this day still is, is my wife where like she likes going outside with me. You know, she's always down to go on a high. you know, spend time outside. We have three kids, totally trying to raise them on the trail. we have a dog who loves being on the trail and, but, but if I'm not there, you know, she's, she's not going out there.Right. So it's like, okay, okay. Maybe here's the play. Like what, what if we use technology? Kind of tear down the barriers for entry, like instill confidence, whether through like product functionality or content, but really make it so that someone like my wife and the hundreds of millions of people around the globe, like her who, who know that they feel better when they time spend in nature.They're just a little scared to do it. Like, can we help augment that? Can we help supplement that? And I think that's going to be the unlock. And that was the big bet. That was the other big bet that we placed in 2015. And you know, 00:20:30 Jacob:And just to summarize that, I understand it's like to kind of not ignore these like extreme users that are on the edge on the edges, you know, serve them, but maybe not in the way that they would want, but like let's focus on, you know, this larger segment. I mean, I think that's the thing, even some good founder advice is good for founders.Sometimes doesn't always apply. Like B to C stuff sometimes where it's like, yeah, like, listen to your most vocal users often. There's something there, but like with an ounce of like moderation, because yeah. They can lead you in really strange places. And think about the network. Think about the like user.Maybe you're not talking to her, her the next year saying next a hundred million users that you have to get. and that's potentially a much bigger surface area. And that doesn't mean you're going to abandon those court users. Like they might grumble a little bit and they might not be totally served by your use case.And like, that's maybe just life. but, but you know, you've now potentially, like if you think about the, you know, the mission of just getting people outdoors, like you've achieved that much better by going for this much larger market segment. Right.00:21:31 Ron:Yeah, and they're not mutually exclusive. It's just which one are we prioritizing? Which one are we preferencing? And how are we, you know, what kind of language are we? Are we using lingo or not? Right. Are we making this accessible for everybody or not for imagery? Right. Are we doing like, you know, Alex, Honnold like dangling one handed off of a cliff,00:21:51 Jacob:Or just, or just a picture of the N the end cap at an REI, Right. Like,00:21:56 Ron:Yeah. Yeah. Or, or just like, you know, a family like smiling and having fun out in nature together, you know, like, all right. It doesn't cater to the core, but they're not necessarily going to like walk away because they see that stuff either. 00:22:07 Jacob:Right. I mean, and that comes to. Channel fit As well, right? Like not your products fit and your products oriented for, and that like B to C you kind of, you can't divorce the two, like you can't have totally independent marketing and channel channels for the product itself, which maybe you could get away with a little bit in B2B.But, but, but they, but they don't necessarily have to be like completely like linked, you know, you can kind of serve both niches on the, on the product side to your point.00:22:34 David:And speaking of getting more folks out in the mission of AllTrails. I'd love to hear about your freemium strategy, because that's a huge part of it. Like what early on, what was your approach? And then how did that evolve over time? As far as what features you do give away for free to kind of reach the broadest audience possible, and then what things you pay wall to actually get paid? 00:22:57 Jacob:And, and, and I'd like to highlight how Ron, when we asked you to describe AllTrails, you put free in the name, which I'm sure was very intentional. Right? You said it is a free app, right? It is not a premium app. I mean, it is a premium app, but the highlight the free. So00:23:09 Ron:Yeah,00:23:10 Jacob:That framing, what, what, tell us about your free app.00:23:13 Ron:There's, this is a, this is, an ongoing. Like not debate, but, it's an open question always. And we're constantly like asking our employees and our board, like let's challenge our assumptions here just because we did something a certain way last year. Doesn't mean we need to do it this way.Like let's constantly reevaluate this, for us, there's sort of three main buckets we have. Free on authenticated users and then we have free registered users. So kind of that registration wall is like the first key funnel, metric. And then there's, pro subscribers, right? So we have two, two kind of core, success metrics.One is registration rate and one is pro conversion rate. And then what goes in front and behind the paywall and the red wall, the registration wall. Constantly influx constantly. And plus we actually just did this really fun workshop a couple of weeks ago, internally here. It was like the history of AllTrailss pro and just showing kind of which features started when I, you know, again in 2015, like what was the pro feature set?How much of those? We actually ended up pulling in front of the red wall and new features that we put back behind the paywall. So I feel like we're constantly in a state of experimentation here. we've been, we've been experimenting with that since day one. We've been experimenting with pricing also on day one.And there's still, I don't feel like we've cracked the code at all at all. When I, when I first started here, I'll chose pro was 50 bucks a year and I spent the first, like two months just trying to get as, as much like, obviously all the quant data that I could get my hands on, but as much qualitative data as I could get to.So reading every app store review, every Reddit thread, every blog post. Talking to customers, all of it. And aside from everyone telling us that our data socked and, you know, we can, we got them lost. So we got them tickets from the park ranger for telling them to bring a dog when it's not that currently, whatever it was.The other piece of feedback that we got was like 50 bucks, like it's way too much. And so we immediately started testing pricing and, and, and we tested it at 30 bucks a year and we tested that 15 bucks a year to kinda all right. If we really just take that price down is, the in incremental, purchase rate, gonna offset, you know, the, the change in that revenue per transaction.They were about to wash it, which was really interesting from a net revenue perspective, 15 bucks a year versus 30 bucks a year was, was basically flat. But we went with 30 because it gave us more maneuverability. We could do more. for the folks who were like price sensitive, do do discounting, intro offers, whatever.At 15, we really couldn't go any low, lower. So it's just like, this is it for everybody all the time. but even that we're revisiting now and thinking through like, all right, maybe are there other different tiers? We've never done monthly before. So what is, what is a world in which there's a monthly price?I don't, I don't love it. I mean, again, annual is magic. Like why mess with a good thing, but there is a cohort of users, especially outside of the U S where that's a pretty high00:26:16 Jacob:Oh, I mean, I live in the Midwest. Like I would, I only need your app from, from April to November. Right. Like I really don't need to pay all year.00:26:24 Ron:For the two weeks in00:26:25 Jacob:Yeah. I, but I mean, I think there's the counter argument there of the simplicity. It's like, yeah, sure. But. Whatever your value is. So your, your, your, this is the price.I really, I I've seen that effect before on the price experimentation, you just end up with the same area under the curve. Like, no matter how you move it, and some apps are like that, some apps are not. but I do think it's really fascinating, the wisdom of crowds, right. And just how, like, they know like the, the, the, the masses have priced and valued your products.And then just like showing that like, it's very efficient, right. No matter where it goes, then you can come down to like, It's almost a good place to be. Cause then yeah, you have that like opera, you can choose where you want it to price. You can basically, you're freed from the like fiduciary duty of like maximum extraction.And you can like, like, just focus on like, okay, what's gonna what's right. For us for some of those goals on company growth and stuff like that. If it was right for the mission. And then like also give yourself some like tactical opportunities in terms of discounting and other stuff like this, and then positioning as well.Like what is it? I think that's almost as important. It's like, how do you use. How do you see all trials? Like how do you see it as like, what's the value of perception? Like a $30 skew and a 50 and a 15, those are very different. Right. And those are, you know, I think about consumer goods on those scales.That's like each one of those things has like a different, like, feel to it.00:27:43 Ron:Totally. And, and then on top of it, though, our business is driven by UGC, right? We have this classic UGC flywheel. And so obviously we know our pro users are more engaged, but a ton of engagement comes from our free users as well. And so you can't kind of, turn the squeeze on them too hard without like really fundamentally damaging the business.00:28:05 Jacob:What kind of user generated content? Is it like pictures and updated and stuff or what? What's00:28:10 Ron:Yeah, ratings, reviews, photos, recordings, you know, and then there's this also this virtuous cycle that we have, this beautiful relationship we have with our users, where they, they help us create as well as Curie our trail Content. So that's the thing with trail content, just to go down this rabbit hole for a second, Joe Content, super fluid, like it's not like streets that are, that are relatively static.You know, a trail is you get, you get flooding, you get fires, you get maintenance, you get development, down trees, whatever. Like they're constantly in a state of flux. And it's really, really hard to stay on top of it. We can't do it alone. And so we00:28:49 Jacob:And there's no, it's not like, it's not like roads where there's like a national database, right. Of like uniform data00:28:55 Ron:Yeah, no, not at all. Right. so we, we do. We have this like really beautiful symbiotic relationship with our, with our users, you know, and, and it's kind of like, we both get value from each other and we're both very transparent about like the relationship, like you guys help us and you help the community.Right. And we'll package it. We'll, we'll keep improving and investing in the product experience and everything else. and again, like, this is where it seems to be working, but this is when, when we were talking about. Th th the choke points in the funnel and that, that red wall and the broken version Weill, this is the thing that's top of mind over all of it. 00:29:30 David:Yeah, that's great. I did want to move on and talk about in 2018, AllTrails raised, 75 million led by spectrum equity. And so I'm curious about that, about that story. So, I know, you know, the plan was to sell and then you've shared on other podcasts that, part of that was the founder taking, taking some money kind of his exit event.But I'm really curious just from like a company building perspective. I think so many founders and entrepreneurs think, oh, if I can just. More money. If I can just hire more people, everything's going to be easier. but I imagine that's not the full story. So I'd love to hear about the raise, but then also kind of how that changed the company and changed the trajectory.00:30:18 Ron:Yeah. So like I said earlier, right. That the handshake agreement was to grow and sell it. So we knew going in exactly what the deal was. and once we hit profitability in 2017, it kind of felt like, all right, it's probably next year. It's probably our year. And we got an inbound from one of the big tech companies early, you know, probably end of Q1 of 2018.And so I was like, all right, game on, right? This is it. We'll go get a bank. we'll run a formal process here. And we started going through it. We started going through it. This was actually, it was fun, right? Like I got to put together sort of like, all right, here's our top 100 strategic partnerships broken out by category, broken out by vertical.Here's like the, you know, the accretive value here is, you know, the, the investment credit. It was like a really fun thought exercise. You know, we're talking to online travel companies and real estate companies, and obviously like the retailers and just so many different types of companies out there. And we ran a process and it was, it was fun.But, and as we were going through it, well, a couple things happen. One is our business really took off. Like it was a breakout trajectory year for us. So that always helps. Anytime you, you meet with someone, you share your plan and then you come back a month later and it's like, Hey, actually, Outperforming outpacing.So your price just went up. so that was, I mean, that was great. Like a great position to be in. I've never had leveraged like that. And the other, the other thing was like, we could walk away at any point. If we, if we didn't like it, I had done a lot of fundraising before and that I've never had a position of, of leverage like that.So that was cool. But as we were going through the process and talking to these different strategic acquires, the other thing that kept jumping out was like, I don't want to just go be middle management at some big company that I already like have chosen not to work out anyways, because it doesn't align with what I want to do with my time.And so, you know, we're kind of going through, it's like, is this really, is this it is this the only path? and we're talking to our bankers about it and like, you know, there's a, a huge ecosystem of financial investors that are really excited about this consumer subscription space. let's, let's do a spike there.And so we started talking to somebody. Different financial firms out there. And that's where it got really, really interesting. you know, I think, I think we all probably have preconceptions about like private equity groups, like, you know, I know, right.00:32:36 Jacob:Just, it then the light dimmed here. When you said00:32:39 Ron:I know, cause a lot of the classic ones, they're just there in your shorts about like your bottom line expenses and micromanaging and telling you to cut costs and00:32:47 Jacob:That's, that's the, that's the, the stereotype at least.00:32:50 Ron:Totally right. but there's this whole class of growth equity shops out there and, and we, we sort of plugged into it and I would squarely put spectrum equity and that one, and the first time we talked to them, it was so clear. They're like, you guys, aren't thinking big enough. It's like, what? I love that.Okay. Let's talk growth. You know, like you guys need to be thinking global. Right. And it was just like, there was so much alignment around. This, this opportunity in front of us. And instead of like pulling the rip cord and just kind of being absorbed and integrated into something else, it's like, how about, like, we really make a, make a run at this.And so the more we talk to them, the more it's was like, yes, hell yes. And it wasn't just from like, a funding perspective, you know? Cause if it was just that like again, then you just do an auction and you just see whoever's the highest. But we really wanted, like I needed a partner. I wanted a value added partner that I wanted someone who could bring in, you know, a sense of community, not have to reinvent the wheel all the time.That's always nice when you can plug into our portfolio of similar companies and just pick their brain. All right. Like how did you guys00:33:54 Jacob:Yeah. I mean, that's an under, that's an underappreciated aspect of raising versus like going at your own. It's like the network, like it's, I think feces oversell it, but maybe founders undervalue it. Right? Like00:34:05 Ron:A hundred percent. Couldn't agree more. It does. It really does. and so yeah, we kinda went, yeah. I, I feel incredibly fortunate that we were able to partner up with spectrum equity. And so David two question, I have, it's like it for us, it was this huge unlock. It was this huge online. Like we have another partner, we're going to be more formal, with our board structure and, you know, the, the sort of like metrics, which is great, like we needed to level up, and our corporate diligence and everything.And they've been, they've been a partner and we've, we've grown the board. We've added more expertise. And again, like the, the portfolio being, being sister companies with, with like Headspace and the not worldwide and survey monkey, whatever, like these cool companies that I respect and be able to, you know, hit up the CEO and be like, okay, how did you guys deal with this?Because like you said, like there are a ton of challenges that come when you're going through that, you know, that the slope of the curve at that point, right? Like the true hyper-growth curves. All right. You know, we can't fall back on, on money as an excuse, you know, like it's purely an execution play and how do we do more faster?And that's honestly like, that's my, I think one of the coolest things I can say about my board, that the single biggest piece of feedback I get from them where they're just like yelling at me all the time and a great way. It's like, you gotta do more faster. Why aren't you doing more faster? Right. Like that is the mantra here because everyone sees this opportunity.It's ours, it's ours to go take. Right. But we got to execute and do it as fast as we can.00:35:33 Jacob:Yeah. That's that's, I mean, I'll say as somebody recently constructing a board, like that was sort of my cause as a founder and as a CEO, like you're always, you're just, you're you're at, you should be at the limits if you're doing your job. Right, right. Like you should be kind of feeling at least like thinking, you know, what your limits are and what the company's limits are.And it's nice. Even if there isn't anything more you can do. It's nice to have some people who like, ostensibly are aligned with you to be like, Are you sure there's not more right? Like, is there anything like, are you doing like, could, could you change this? Like, could you go go faster potentially? And sometimes the answer's no, but it does always kinda, you leave those board meetings going like, like maybe there is like, maybe there is some way we could do this, like better or faster, right.00:36:10 Ron:Yeah. And then you build a team, right? And that leads back to like the team growth. And this, you know, this is our third year in a row of, of doubling head count. Hopefully next year will be our fourth year in a row. And all of the leverage, I'm a big believer, like two things are the lifeblood for companies like ours.One is culture and the other is momentum. And you can't, if you lose either of them, Right. Like, you cannot take your eye off of either of those as a CEO, as a founder, whatever it is. and so like building both, you know, they, they got to go hand in hand, or you can sacrifice culture as you're doing the internal hypergrowth.00:36:43 Jacob:Have an exit strategy, right?00:36:45 Ron:Exactly.00:36:46 Jacob:Going to last very long.00:36:47 Ron:Because you'll never get it back. That's exactly right. But, but generating momentum through like value added hires and raising the bar or bringing, you know, a bringing in a plus, I love being the dumbest person in the room. That's my favorite thing at all. Choose walking in there. It was like, all right, I'm going to learn something.Someone's going to teach me something cool. and building a team.00:37:06 David:So it sounds like the biggest unlock for y'all taking the money was just the ability to hire faster, hire better folks, offer better pay. but was there anything else that you feel like taking funding helped unlock for AllTrails? Did you, were you able to spend Mo did you start spending more on, on user acquisition or ramping anything else out? 00:37:27 Jacob:Can I ask a clarifying question without like you sharing your term sheet or whatever, but like D w like these, these deals can be very different than like a venture deal, right. Where like, almost always all of it hits the books and it's dilutive, meaning that the company gets the money, but this was like kind of a buyout for the founder as an alternative to a sale.It's like, did you guys structure it? So some hit the books and not, or was it all to the founders or how did it, whatever you're comfortable00:37:50 Ron:We, we hardly took any primary capital in 2018. I didn't, I didn't want it. I don't want it. Like I liked our organic trajectory. I didn't want. And obviously I've gotten to know spectrum a lot better. They're not built from the CNA, but you take money from a VC. And the expectation is like the success metric is suspended as hard and aggressive as possible because they're incentivized to keep you hooked, you know, on the next round.And I wanted to, you know, accelerate more like on the product development side of things, but I didn't want to get stuck in a, a growth model that's dependent on unsustainable paid acquisition. Right. So. almost the entire deal with secondary capital, which was great, which was00:38:33 Jacob:And for the financial illiterate IME, like 18 months ago,00:38:37 Ron:Yeah,00:38:38 Jacob:The company gets the money. Secondary would be somebody who's already a shareholder gets the00:38:41 Ron:Exactly the people on the cap table. so it was buying out the founder, buying out the original investors, like really cleaning it out. It was a new chapter, a new book altogether. At that point and, you know, start sort of starting together. I think, you know, to the question earlier, in terms of like the other value as like, I really can't stress enough, just the strategic value add that I was able to get like, again, because as a founder or as a CEO or as an example, You're kind of stuck in your own head a lot and you can talk to other founders, but you know, there's this like culture, especially in Silicon valley, like, oh bro, coaching it.Yeah. I mean just crushing it, you know? No, one's, you know.00:39:19 Jacob:I didn't, you didn't have to put air quotes around culture there, but like, I could hear the00:39:24 Ron:Yeah.00:39:24 Jacob:I'm called.00:39:25 Ron:You know, and very few people are like really open and transparent, about the challenges and what have you. And so being able to go in. and have this board that I trust that I feel like we're all aligned. I've had boards, you know, especially VC backed boards, where you get like a different, you know, venture capitalists from every round that you do.Like you have a lot of misaligned incentives. You have a lot of sharp elbows in a room.00:39:47 Jacob:I was gonna say, there's a lot of, you know, these are all competitors in a lot of cases, right? Hopefully you pick well, and you have people that are professionals, but like you can totally end up in a situation where you have frenemies,00:39:57 Ron:Yeah, you're watching your back at your own boards. That's a horrible way to live. Whereas with this one, it was so clean. It was like, we were owned by spectrum. This is great. I work at on their behalf. This is great. We've got the two of them there's me. And then, and then, but to their credit, they're like, let's bring on two more operators.And so, you know, they didn't care about like, well, we have to have 51% plus of the seats. It was just like, no, let's just surround ourselves with really awesome. And so we got, you know, we got the former CEO of ancestry, who, you know, they know a thing or two about, subscription businesses. And then we got the COO of Robin hood and obviously like they know a thing or two about hyper-growth and everything else.And again, like, so it's almost like it's this team, you know, it's like this dream team we're just collectively, like they're helping me chart stuff. Like see things. I wouldn't have been able to see on my own, whatever the pattern00:40:45 Jacob:Yeah.I mean, I think it's, it's, it's a good story in the sense that like, I think, I think we think too terminally sometimes about companies, right? Like it's like, they're born, they are grown and then they get sold and then they die usually like nine times out of 10, right? Like it's, it's not often that an intern, like I say, all goes well and the integration goes, well, some spectrum of results.Right. But this is a result where I think you, you guys have a company that's two important. To let die, right? Like if you had sold, I don't know what, you know, your fangs or whoever was like, I'm sure I could see any number of massive tech company wanting this to be a part of their data set or part of their like social, like aspect of whatever.It's just, I could see a plugging into a lot of things, but you know, to get Google's exciting acquisition today and not saying you guys. Talking to Google or not, but as an example, like their exciting acquisition today is tomorrow is like, you know, happy trails, blog posts, right. That actually a good name for the, the shutting down AllTrails, acquisition at Google blogposts.But, but the, you know, and this is a, this is a path where, you know, people who are passionate about the mission, the employees and the users, like can kind of, you know, get that exit that people are looking for. But without like jeopardizing. Thing that's important. And like, maybe this is very hippie, right?But like, I think there is some aspect of companies that's beyond like the capital value and beyond like, even like the culture, but like actually achieving the mission and, and making that change in the world or providing that service. That's, that's, that's more important than, you know, Hypergrowth or whatever.And look, I mean, we should get into talking about now, like posts around, but it sounds like you guys are in hyper-growth anyway. Right. So it didn't, it's not like it's, it's this false dichotomy of right. Like either you're like raising for venture and you're like going at it really hard or Like you're a lifestyle business or, you know, whatever.And it's just like, Maybe, whereas maybe us like lampooning, this straw man of a false narrative has like most of the talking about this to like make that is the, the, the totality of the false dichotomy is us talking about it. But I really think this is a great example of like one of those like interesting, you know, outcomes and, and stories.So it tell us about what's happening now. 00:42:52 David:I appreciate you sharing that specifically because even in researching it, I listened to a couple of your other interviews. I still assume that that the. A pretty big primary chunk that, that went into the balance sheet of the company and then it accelerated it from there. So it's an even more interesting story to me that that raise was mostly secondary.So from the $3 million seed way back in, whatever it was 20 12, 20 13, it really has been an almost bootstrapped company and becoming what it is today on. Little capital is really incredible and it really kind of speaks to consumer subscription space and, and how you can operate and go big without spending a ton of money.If you do it right. If you don't, if you don't just plug into Instagram and blow $5 million of VC money acquiring the wrong users, if you actually talk to them and build a good product and everything else. but I did00:43:55 Ron:Well, and I was just stay on top of not only that at the first board meeting that we had with. I, I walked in and I said, Hey, you know, this is great high five super-stoked, we're also, I think we should donate 1% of our revenue to environmental causes. I know you guys just shelled out a whole lot of money, but would that be okay?And to their credit, they're like Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. And you know, one of the first things we did post-transaction was signing up for 1% for the planet, you know, like there there's totally a different path here. I didn't realize it. And I think it's cool for people.I don't know. I, I wish I heard this earlier in my career. Like there are, like you said, like there's not a dichotomy, like there's so many different ways to do this. I think we have. Fetishizing almost, or like putting on a pedestal this whole like massive VC round kind of stuff, you know, and there's a time and a place for it, for sure.But like, that's not the success metric in and of itself, like more often than not, especially for earlier companies, the death knell. And so I think that, I'm always, you know, I get, I get hit up by people, you know, for whatever I'll all the time talking about this kind of stuff. And so I was like, dude, if you can boot shop, if you can control your own destiny, like do it, you know, find right partners that are gonna unlock growth and everything else.Don't fall, don't fall victim to that. Like, just that story that you think is like the classic Silicon valley startup story, which is you go out, you raise a big round and you have an IPO. It never works. It never works that way00:45:19 Jacob:Who would do that?00:45:20 Ron:To too many man.00:45:22 Jacob:We're running out of time. I do want to know. So you're talking about like doubling and so I'm guessing like the pandemic, like we've seen across the ecosystem has been really, especially, I can imagine there's two aspects to it, right? Like one your digital service.And then secondly, like you're very good compatible with like, social distancing. So did you like think you would be having this conversation for whatever four years after the spectrum, deal like doubling every head count every year? Cause that's typically not what private equity companies growth rates look like.00:45:51 Ron:I know. No, it was, I mean, so I'll preface this by saying we were incredibly fortunate during COVID and sometimes you just get lucky. Sometimes you get like, there's a ton of great companies out there that just like how to pull sales reps out of the field, or we're an equip for like the supply chain issues or whatever it was.Right. Like, Well, like you said, we're digital first company. we, we already, we had a somewhat distributed workforce, so we already like using zoom and slack and going fully remote. Like we, we saw no, no drop in productivity. Now granted like when, when the world shut down mid-March that was a little bit scary.But we knew it would be temporary. I, you know how long no one really knew. Bye bye. Mid April, we were going to our board and saying like, look like, I know things look a little bleak right now. Like the, the machine has fully ground to a hall, but we think actually like this is going to be an insane accelerant.Once things open back up, there's nothing to do. Like you said, it lends itself perfectly to social distancing. You know, people who can't travel anymore. Like, all right, we're going to explore our local state parks now, you know, like we'll scratch that. It's that way I got three kids and you know, school is canceled and obviously, you know, summer camps forget.What are we going to do? What are we going to do with these kids? And it's like, we're going to run them ragged on the trail, you know, every weekend we're just going on the trail and we're running them ragged and00:47:10 Jacob:There's a good ad campaign in there. Just00:47:11 Ron:Totally right. And so,00:47:13 Jacob:Sleeping kids in the back of a Subaru Forester and it's like,00:47:16 Ron:Yes, exactly. So, I mean, you know, we made, we did make a big strategic decision, to get in front of it and, and start hiring like crazy, and just make, you know, make a play, make a play. And, and again, Sometimes you get lucky. you know, that works, that works all these companies around us, that we were never able to like really poach from or whatever.Something like we're able to go grab their talent. Like not just from people who are like, oh, but people were actively working there who were just like, I don't want to do this with my life anymore. I like spending time outside. I had the number of people, the number of inbound applicants that like write in their cover letter.I was looking at which apps I use the most. And I just started applying to those jobs. You know, I think that there really is. It's like really. Great. And I applaud it and I love it. And I hope it never stops people like taking more agency and control over their career and not just like reactively, you know, just doing whatever leftovers00:48:10 Jacob:Yeah. I mean, the geographic unlock of remote, I think is a big part of that. Right. Cause suddenly like you're, you can just literally go on your phone and pretty probably today, nine times out of 10, you're going to be able to work for that company depending on your like, you know, locale or like time00:48:22 Ron:Totally.00:48:23 Jacob:It wasn't that way two years ago,00:48:25 Ron:Not at all, not at all. Exactly. So, a lot changed. A lot has changed in this time. With all of that, with the big accelerant they were seeing on the usability side through 2020, there is, I think David, you had asked this like pre pre-show, you know: there's two big questions hanging over our business as we went into 2021.One is, are the registered users who we got last year during COVID are they going to convert to pro like our conversion to pro happens over time? We look at a lot of stuff through a cohorted basis, and it goes up and to the right. It will take years for some users across the line to go pro, but it's great.It just keeps going up. So, are the folks who signed up when there was nothing else to do, are they ever going to convert to pro or not? The other big question is: all the folks who converted to pro in the height of the pandemic in 2020, once the world opens up, are they going to retain? Or, are we going to have the bottom drop out from under us?These were two questions hanging over our heads. We have a seasonal business, it follows the sun pretty much. So, as we headed into May, June, July of this year, thankfully that the answer for both was a resounding “yes.” The folks who signed up last year are converting at a higher rate than normal.The folks who subscribed are retaining at higher rates than normal, too. And I think it's kind of more of a testament to how the zeitgeists has changed a little bit post pandemic. Being outside just makes people feel good. I guess it's that simple. It's not very complicated.You feel better when you spend time outside, and people are just incorporating it into their regular routines.00:50:08 Jacob:Yeah. It's interesting. For positives and negatives, I think you came up three cherries, right? It just really lined up, and then it's continued. You're talking about the hiring thing, too. Like a lot of habits changed during COVID, and I don't think anything will necessarily go back. Especially if people have found a new, happier, maximum for their lives. You guys are part of that. That's great. and that seems like, I dunno, we don't have total good analytic quantitative data on this, but it doesn't seem like the whole boosts from last year totally collapsed.It seems like it just was like an accelerate, and I think other industries would sort of back that up. 00:50:54 David:Yep. Well, we're coming up on time. Is there anything else I should've asked you? 00:50:59 Ron:No, this was fun.00:51:00 Jacob:You guys are probably hiring, right?00:51:02 Ron:We're hiring like crazy right now. Yeah, absolutely.00:51:06 Jacob:AllTrails?00:51:07 Ron:Yeah.00:51:08 Jacob:There you go.00:51:08 David:Any particular roles you want to shout out? 00:51:11 Ron:We're always starving for great engineering talent. Android, iOS, front end, back end dev ops, security, all of it. PMs, product designers, mapping designers, customer support, the full gamut. The entire company, every department is hiring right now.00:51:28 David:Well, it sounds like a really fun company to work for. We'll put links to your job page and to your personal LinkedIn, and a few other places in the show notes, but this was really fun chatting with you today, Ron. Thank you so much for taking the time. 00:51:41 Ron:My pleasure guys. Thanks for having me. This was fun.

Rocking Recovery the New Thought Wat Sexy Spirituality Episode #37   Host: Lezli Goodwin Guest: Jolene Baney, Co-Founder and Spiritual Coach at Qualia Recovery, providing case management and supported residential living for long-term recovery Guest: Ron Trunnell, licensed practitioner, new ministerial student living and breathing his own recovery for 22 years, and founding member of Renewal in the Desert, an annual spiritual retreat for sober gay men in Phoenix, Arizona   Small Talk Lezli, Ron and Jolene talk about what’s inspiring them right now. Jolene: Opening Qualia Recovery, a new residential facility (8 apartments) in Phoenix. I am inspired by creating the coaching program & helping people reconnect with their passions. Ron: I’m really focused on the concept of “Back to Basics” both in the Center, where we focus on the basics of Science of Mind, and in recovery where we go back to the idea of powerlessness. Lezli: The New Vision Center for Spiritual Living’s annual theme, “The Spiritual Hero’s Journey” -- combining Joseph Campbell’s theory of the Hero’s Journey and New Thought. I’m loving having reasons to talk about Harry Potter and Buffy.   Rocking Recovery the New Thought Way Ron and Jolene are both good friends and fellow partners at New Vision Center for Spiritual Living Our topic today is “Rocking Recovery the New Thought Way” Sometimes, Recovery and New Thought are conceived of as philosophically antithetical. Ron: Recovery can come across as traditional, New Thought less so. But there are places in the Big Book of AA (called “We Agnostics”) that sound like it could be literally out of The Science of Mind or written by Ernest Holmes. Holmes also spoke of AA very positively, focusing on “The fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man.” (Gender due to the age it was written.) Where does the misunderstanding come up that 12 Steps are against Science of Mind? Jolene: It can be the word “powerless.” I think of it as I have turned away from the power of God that is always there. I’d been choosing not to plug in. Ron: Look below the surface. If I only look at the surface, look how different Jolene and I are. But within we have so much in common. The common thread is there. The same is true of the two philosophies, but you have to look beneath the surface to the deeper meaning. Jolene: Surrender is one of those words where you feel like you’re surrendering your power, or you can give it over and gain Freedom. That’s what I chose. It’s such a relief. Georgia Prescott, “Powerful or Powerless.” https://www.amazon.com/Powerful-Powerless-Georgia-Prescott/dp/0982681704 Jolene: It’s about rediscovering your passion and good, that there is an intuition and a power in your body, in your being. You wake up to it through meditation, affirmations, reconnecting your mind-body connection. Joe Dispenza: infecting the Quantum Field https://drjoedispenza.com/ “What the Bleep Do We Know,” https://whatthebleep.com/ Ron: It’s all just a choice away. “The entire universe will conspire for you at that moment of choice, that moment of commitment.” Jolene: doing monthly World Cafes to connect with people all over the world. http://www.theworldcafe.com/key-concepts-resources/world-cafe-method/ Sacred Service & being a sponsor, ways of sharing our experience, strength and hope with those who are new to the path of self-healing Honoring every path, every philosophy, every faith tradition. It’s about what is right for each person as an individualized creation of the Divine. Ron: There are many paths. THe important thing is to make a choice and move in that direction. Jolene: People in recovery are not broken. There are the most wonderful, powerful, creative people in the world. Lezli: There is nothing you cannot do. You just have to take the first step and trust there will be stone underneath your foot when it lands. The entire Universe conspires to bring you the things you need to walk it out.   Something Good Jolene: I mentioned Qualia Recovery, our new residential center in Phoenix Arizona. www.qualiarecovery.com I also mentioned Passion Maps, and my website for that is www.premiererecoveryoptions.com Ron: There are people out there already loving you. So whoever you are, whatever your situation is, just know that there’s a power of Love already supporting you. And by making that choice, whether it is to pursue a 12 Step program, perhaps Alcoholics Annonymous, search that out and find a meeting and simply say yes.  If it’s about finding that deeper spiritual connection, find a Center for Spiritual Living near you or online (www.newvisioncsl.org streams online) and connect with people who want to love you. Lezli: My something good is that we have NEW pieces of Science of Mind jewelry on our website www.newthought.shop. New colors in bracelets, some beaded earrings, good stuff. Check it out and save 20% with Promo Code “Sexy2021” to save 20% off your order. Again, that’s www.newthought.shop  You can find more from me at www.lezligoodwin.com   If you’d like to support Sexy Spirituality Podcast, please consider joining us on Patreon at  www.patreon.com/sexyspirituality. From early access to episodes to patron-only content, our Patreon community gets the very sexiest stuff from us! A big thank you to our patrons for making this show possible. If you’d like to support Sexy Spirituality Podcast, please give a 5 start review on Apple Podcasts or the platform you prefer to listen on. It really does help! If you have any feedback about the show, we’d love to hear from you at lezligoodwin@gmail.com. You can find all of our show notes and podcast episodes at sexyspiritualitypodcast.com. 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Podcast Episode 15 Behaviour Change - Necessity is the Mother of Invention Dr. Ron Van Houten, Bobbi Hoadley, Cathy KnightsABA technical concepts covered in this podcast: Behaviour change procedures; pattern analyses; measurement; Functional Analysis; punishment procedures; negative reinforcement by reducing time and effort; positive punishment using delay and exertion; motivating operations and establishing operations; contextual fit; visual contextual cues; efficiency; group contingencies; maintenance  Bobbi and Cathy: When we have a problem that isn’t being solved, we create an intervention, or an invention, that will address the problem. The person we are talking to is such an interesting man, his name is Doctor Ron Van Houten and he is an ABA doctor and a professor at Western Michigan University. He has done work all over North American and Europe in traffic safety and how to decrease the conflicts that create near misses and people getting hurt. He has changed the behaviour of both drivers and pedestrians using Behaviour Analysis. Ron sets up solutions that engineer the behavior of everybody in those situations to mitigate the risk.

Ron: There were studies done that show that cars coming up to a crosswalk don’t have a good line of sight. Places in NY city a number of people crushed to death by trucks. So they put an arrow up high but it didn’t work. One simple solution was staggering the stop lines.Cathy: There are times when I would jay-walk, I think to myself ‘could I not have walked down to the corner to the crosswalk?” Ron: In essence, we know that people don’t like to wait. We find out where people would like to cross. Pedestrian generators. You can try educating with behavioural solutions.Bobbi: I would think all good functional analysis of behaviour is doing that – find  out where the behaviour is going and then decide whether you can actually change it or whether it’s better to go with the behaviour and just change the circumstances. Always juggling the reinforcement. In my situation, I measure a person against themselves. For you, you are dealing with people and conflicts and they all want efficiency.Ron: I wanted to get people to not use the elevator when they didn’t need it. I tried putting information about health benefits of using the stairs. Didn’t change. So I increased the wait time on the elevator and everyone who could use the stairs went to the stairs. By increasing their effort and time, I changed their behaviour.I did some things for the National Traffic Safety Administration, and we wanted to get people to wear seatbelts. I gave a survey, and sure enough put them into the car and baseline showed they wore their belts. Then we moved it to treatment, which was moving the car increase speed, if you buckled your belt, that force gradually went away. You have to repeat the reminders. A lot of people don’t buckle their seats before moving the car. You do a repeat reminder after they’re going. Pedal force-gets 100% seatbelt use, whereas before it was a delay. I used GM’s brake shift, to then get seatbelt reminder, and if they don’t buckle they can’t shift immediately, they have to wait 8 seconds. We had big increases in seatbelt use. They still have some choice.One of the cities in Florida, were having children struck going to and from school. I did the analysis and said 1) you don’t have a lot of sidewalks near the school. I looked and people were in such a hurry dropping kids off. Motivating operation-community wants to do something about it. 2) Reduce speeding when kids are going to and from school. Educate parents about kids getting struck, needing to be under speed limit or enforce it aggressively. For years, no more children were struck going to and from school. You need to prepare people before the change that they have to accept it.Bobbi: And this is a project you went back to and took data?Ron: We got the community buy-in to change the way things are done. Four years later, people were telling me it was awesome. They hit a tipping point into the high 70’s-people and drivers imitate behaviour. Everyone starts to yield. It become self-sustaining and changing dynamics of culture.Bobbi: Set up the group dynamics to either punish or reinforce.Ron: Some of the worst places I’ve seen, people say “oh we don’t have a problem”. When people try and make efforts, that’s where change is. Where there’s no motivation to change, it becomes harder. It’s almost paradoxical, when there’s a lot of interest, usually things are happening already.Bobbi: That’s why we follow our data.Ron: Score and look at what’s going on in Toronto-measure running lights.Bobbi: The programs to increase biking and decrease risks of biking in Vancouver use tools that are really varied.Ron: Consider for a moment, children used to walk or bicycle to school. Look today at obesity cause-lack of walking and bicycling. It’s a good thing to promote walking and bicycling because it saves on our healthcare costs.Bobbi: I do notice the more they put in structures to help bikers be more safe, it’s also the changing driver behaviour to be politer, I think you do reach a tipping point. I can’t hit them, I better join them.Ron: There is a greater acceptance of cycling than there used to be, and a little better with pedestrians. I would say Canada does better in yielding than the United States. I tried something years a go, it was the idea at the start of the walk, we had eyes that animated to look left and right. It would increase looking-so we could prompt people to look for vehicles. In Britain they have signs “look right” because we in North America look left, to look for moving cars. Winston Churchill was almost killed in NY City stepping off the crosswalk and was hit. Reminding people to look and knowing where to look. Crossing clockwise is different than crossing counter-clockwise. You have to use more behaviour to look at something coming from behind you than ahead of you. With texting you can’t see anything.Bobbi: I personally love the scrambling intersections in Europe. I don’t see these happening, can we expect that in the future?Ron: Scrambling intersections, creates more delay, but tends to be where there’s a lot of people. Match up treatments to people best you can.Bobbi: They have to provide equipment anyway, why not engineer it to be more helpful and safe for everyone. Ron: You can use something called a gateway treatment, so driver’s have to cross between them, we can get very good yielding with that and it’s an inexpensive tool. How much is it just the sign with no message? But going between these signs seems important too.Bobbi: So it’s a visual contextual fit.Ron: Exactly. We started to look at survival rates of the solutions. We found some that reduce the maintenance cost. Developing new ideas, some low cost. Think of the reminders in the car to wear seatbelt – costs nothing when software is already there.Bobbi: I would contend that most of the time it’s a lot less expensive to maintain a solution, than maintain a problem. Why I love behaviour analysis, we’re all about the solution.Ron: The other thing we can do is feedback and reinforcement. When we have a community making progress, we need to convey that to them to keep going in the right direction.  It was so nice to have Ron interacting with us and telling us more. The part I really like is that everything he does is the same as what I do. Even though he’s applying it to a variety of groups of people and he has a specific goal, he still does an analysis of the behaviour, and uses all the same tools I do, keeps it pragmatically going until he hits a tipping point and then keeps maintaining and generalizing it. It’ll be different for me crossing the street now.  It just goes to prove that necessity is the mother of invention.

Summary:In this 68th episode of Fintech Impact, Jason Pereira, award-winning financial planner, university lecturer, writer, and host conducts an interview with Ron Finberg, Product Specialist at Cappitech. Cappitech is a company that assists international financial companies that deal with reporting complex issues stemming from global regulations. Learn what Cappitech is capable of doing during this discussion with Ron Fineberg.Episode Highlights:● 00:48: – Ron Finberg explains Cappitech and what they do.● 01:59: – How did Cappitech get started?● 05:20: – What is the regulatory challenges that Cappitech solves?● 08:15: – What types of challenges are often faced to compile data?● 09:42: – How does the Cappitech platform format work?● 10:55: – Which areas does Cappitech service?● 12:27: – What is coming out of extreme data dumps?● 15:09: – How does the end-user experience unfold?● 17:20: – What has been the reception from the clients that Ron has been dealing with?● 21:39: – What would be something Ron Finberg wishes he could change in the industry?● 25:09: – What has been the biggest challenge in getting Cappitech out into the marketplace?● 29:33: – What excites Ron Finberg the most about Cappitech?3 Key Points:1. I.T. people and legal compliance people have to work together to deal with regulatory organizations.2. Problem-solving questions that Cappitech asks include: Where is the data coming from? Is it enough data to comply with what the regulators need? Is there data that Cappitech can find?3. Compliance people can view where their problems are and what is getting rejected by regulators.Tweetable Quotes:● “I think what the European regulators are finding out is that there is a lot of information that they can’t use, just because they didn’t expect it to be received in a certain way, and it is...and there is no use for it all.” – Ron● “Our main user would be a compliance or operational officer at an investment firm.” – Ron● “There is always something new to be able to scale to, which is a nice area of the place we’re in, and one of the reasons we attracted certain types of investors into our company.” – RonResources Mentioned:● @Fintech_Impact - Facebook● Jason Pereira - LinkedIn● Ron Finberg – Linkedin● Cappitech.com – Website for Cappitech See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Gene and documentary filmmaker Ron James are in debate mode. Ron is an accomplished figure in the field for his award-winning films and his TV Show "Bigger Questions."  He also runs MUFON television as an independent joint venture with MUFON. According to Ron: "There is a vision for the organization and the important role it can play in moving truth forward. MUFON is still the largest organization dedicated to the scientific understanding of the ET phenomenon in the free world." With MUFON in the crosshairs, dealing with several recent controversies, the group's future and the possibility of solving the UFO mystery are front and center.

180 Nutrition No doubt about it, there’s lots of debate with fluoride on the internet. So who better a person to ask than holistic dentist who has over thirty five years in the industry. The big question is; Should we us toothpaste with fluoride in it? We felt this would make a fantastic topic for this weeks episode among many other subjects! Mercury fillings... Do we need dairy for strong bones & teeth? Join us as we dive deep and throw as many questions as we can at our guest :) Our fantastic guest this week is Dr Ron Ehrlich. He is one of Australia’s leading holistic health advocates, educators, and a holistic dentist. For over 30 years he has explored the many connections between oral health and general health, and the impact of stress on our health and wellbeing. He is also co-host of a weekly podcast “The Good Doctors”, currently ranked amongst the top health podcasts in Australia. Together The Good Doctors explore health, wellness and disease from a nutritional and environmental perspective, looking at food from soil to plate and exploring the many connections between mind and body. In This Episode: - Fluoride; should we avoid it? - Do mercury fillings effect our health? - The lessons learned from the legendary Weston.A.Price - Do we need to eat dairy for strong bones & teeth? - The best approach for long lasting teeth - And much much more… Take the Quiz & Discover Your #1 Health & Weight Loss Road Block Here: http://bit.ly/1Nkr4RE Transcript Guy: Hey, this is Guy Lawrence of 180 Nutrition, and welcome to today’s health sessions. We have a fantastic episode for you in store today. Our guest is one of Australia’s leading holistic health advocates. He is an educator, a broadcaster, and a holistic dentist, and yes. We do tackle our topic today and get into that. He also has a fantastic podcast called The Good Doctors, and his name is Dr. Ron Ehrlich, and he has a wealth of information, and it was awesome to sit down with him for the last, I guess, 45, 50 minutes while he shares his wisdom with us. We tackle some great topics we feel, fluoride being one of them, and this very debatable mercury fillings is another, dairy for strong bones, so we start delving into these things and what his conclusions have been after probably now, 35 years in the industry. I’m going to also talk about the legendary Weston A. Price who was a dentist back in the ’30s who uncovered some of phenomenal research as well. Awesome subjects, and yeah, you might look at the way you brush your teeth a little bit differently after this episode. The other thing I wanted to mention is that we currently run two episodes a month generally now, and we interview a guest that we bring in, and [inaudible 00:01:17] discussed and then when we look into bringing in a third episode a month if we can fit it in. We really want to get this content out to you by just making sure we have the time, but what we’re looking at doing is a bit of a Q and A style kind of episodes where we want to answer the questions that we get coming in. If you have a question for us that you would like us to personally answer on the podcast, we will fit your question on there, and we can discuss it and topics at length, so it’d be great to get that feedback from you guys. Yeah, we’ll bring it into a third episode for a Q and A. I really want to thank you guys for leaving the reviews as well. I’ll do ask often, but they’re fantastic. I thought I’d actually read one out. I’ve never done it before, but we do check every review that comes on. The latest one says, “Thought provoking,” by [inaudible 00:02:08]. I could read that slightly differently but I won’t. They say, “I don’t think there hasn’t been a single podcast where my jaw hasn’t hit the floor with some of the pills wisdom that have been shared. Keep them coming boys.” That is really appreciated honestly. That means a lot to us. Another review we had recently was, “Such informative podcast, five stars as well. I’ve started listening to Guy and Steve on walking and in the gym, so much more interesting than music. It feels like I’m learning while getting my daily exercise. Perfect.” Yeah. We are big advocates of doing two things at once. That’s for sure.Look. I appreciate it. Keep those reviews coming. It’s like I said it helps our rankings and also, yeah. Keep an eye out as we bring in the third episode. Like I said, drop us an email at info@180nutrition.com.au and just mention the podcast, and we’ll take a look at tackling your questions or some. Let’s go over to Dr. Ron. Enjoy. Hi. This is Guy Lawrence. I’m joined by Stuart Cooke as always. Hi, Stuart. Stuart: Hello. Guy: Our awesome guest today is Dr. Ron Ehrlich. Ron, welcome to the show. Ron: Thanks guys. Lovely to be here. Guy: I really appreciate having you on, mate. I seem to see your face popping up everywhere. There is a nutritional talk, a seminar on Facebook, social media, and even on podcasts. I thought it would be best for you to describe [inaudible 00:03:32] exactly what you do if you could share that with us first, because you seem to be man of many talents. Ron: A man of many talents indeed but at the moment … What I really would describe myself is a health advocate. We’re an educator. I’m in the process of writing a book, so I’m soon I’m going to be to call myself an author, and I’m a dentist, a holistic dentist. There, a few different hats there. Guy: It’s fantastic. Now, I remember seeing you talk quite a number of years ago. I think it was [inaudible 00:04:05]. I’ll jump in, and you walked on the stage and the first thing you said was you get asked all the time what the hell is a holistic dentist. Would you mind sharing out with us the [inaudible 00:04:17]? Ron: Sure. Traditionally, dentists focus on the oral cavity. As a holistic dentist, what we focus on is the person attached to that oral cavity. That is a small point perhaps. It rolls off the tongue very easily but it’s a pretty important one because it then leads you into understanding what we’re looking at here is the gateway to the respiratory tract. If you think breathing is important which I think we’ll all agree it is, and sleeping well is important then this gateway is important as well. We’re also the gateway to the digestive tract, so chewing is an important first step in digestion. Getting this mechanism working well optimally is an important part of digestion. As well as that, there’s a huge amount of neurology in this area. Teeth is so sensitive that you could pick up 10 microns. A hair is 20 microns, so there’s a lot of sensitivity and neurology in this area. That’s going on and that leads us on to being involved with chronic headaches, and neck ache, jaw pain. It’s the site of the two most common infections known to man, woman, and child, tooth decay and gum disease, and almost every chronic disease is now seen as a reflection of chronic inflammation. The big breakthrough was that people discovered that the mouth was connected to the rest of the body. No one knew that up until about 30 or 40 years ago, and that was a big, big breakthrough. Because of the decay, we implant a hell of a lot of material into people’s bodies, in fact, probably more than any other profession put together so all the other professions to put together. There’s a lot going on there and when you consider that this mouth is connected to a human being, with all those things going on, then that affects some of the decisions we make. Guy: Right. Stuart: Fantastic. You’ve touched upon a few topics there as well, Ron, that we want to want to delve into a little deeper down the track especially inflammation and chronic disease, things like that. We’ve got a few questions that we have to us for everybody, and they are largely hot topics in your area as well. First stop, fluoride. What’s your take on fluoride? Ron: There’s no dentist present in this room, myself. The chance of me being stoned by someone is pretty low. It’s almost heresy for a dentist to discuss what are fluoridation in a negative sense. My take on it is this. Of the 140 or so elements there are in the world, 60 of them are required for the human body to function well, optimum. Stuff like calcium, magnesium, zinc … We could go on 60 of them. Fluoride is not one of them. Fluoride is not required for any normal biological, biochemical function, so if it’s not a required element, then it’s a medicine. If it’s a medicine, then it’s the only medicine that is put into the water supply without our individual permission. It doesn’t have regard to whether you’re a 2-month-old baby or you’re a 40-year-old building laborer who is 120 kilos or an 85-year-old woman who is 60 kilos or 50 kilos. There’s not a lot of nuance there in terms of exposure. We’ve got a medication. There’s an ethical issue there about a medication added to the water supply which I have a serious concern about. Now going back to high school chemistry, fluoride belongs to the same family as the other halogens which are bromine, chlorine, iodine, and fluoride; therefore, halogens, right? We interviewed recently … We’ll talk about my podcast in a moment. I can’t resist getting it plugged in. Anyway, we interviewed a few months ago Professor [inaudible 00:08:23], who is talking about iodine deficiency and iodine is the biggest deficiency in the world. Two billion people in the world have iodine deficiency. Because it belongs to the same family as fluoride, chloride, iodine, fluoride, fluoride has the potential to compete with iodine for the thyroid, so it was used at the beginning of last century right up until the mid-century, mid 1900s as overactive thyroid. When someone had an overactive thyroid, they gave them fluoride because they knew it would downscale the thyroid function. Here, if you … You guys may not take as many medical histories as I do, but as I get people coming through my surgery, many of your listeners may have been diagnosed with either underactive or overactive thyroid. It’s a huge problem in our society. I have some concerns about including something in the water supply that has the potential to affect thyroid function; that’s number one. In America interestingly enough which has been fluoridated since the 1940s or 1950s, since 1975, the incidence of thyroid cancer has gone up 160% since 1975. Is that to do with fluoride? No. I’m not saying that is. There are lots and lots of reasons why that might be the case, but that’s of concern to me.   Full Transcript Here: http://180nutrition.com.au/?p=20280