Podcasts about climate change minister

Assistant Minister for Climate Change Josh Wilson is Australia's highest-ranking official at COP30, now underway in Belem, Brazil. He's spoken with SBS Portuguese in a wide-ranging interview about the balance between the urgency and the opportunity that climate action represents, Australia's fossil fuel exports and renewable energy ambitions, and how COP can achieve results without USA and China. The Assistant Minister has also talked about Australia's continuing bid to host COP31, the absence of Prime Minister Anthony Albanese at this climate summit, and his response to the Liberals party room discussions on net zero.

New Zealand's Climate Change Minister, Simon Watts, heads to Brazil this weekend for the high-level portion of the annual global climate summit, COP30. Simon Watts spoke to Corin Dann.

The Government recently announced a raft of proposed changes to the Climate Change Response Act and the Emissions Trading Scheme. Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says the Government's focused on reducing domestic emissions and the legislation needs to reflect these standards. "We're focusing on domestic emissions reduction as the priority." LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The government has announced a climate adaptation plan to help handle floods, cyclones, and other natural disasters. Councils will now have to draw up 30-year plans, and a national flood map is due in 2027. Climate change minister Simon Watts told Mike Hosking that the current system lacks a coordinated approach to respond to natural hazards. “We don't have good data to make decisions, we don't have clear roles and responsibilities...we don't have a clear framework to deal with that reality.” LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Catherine McKenna joined me in person for a live recording of this episode at the Naval Club of Toronto here in our east end. We discussed her new book ‘Run Like a Girl', lessons learned from her six years in federal politics, the reality of political harassment, the tension between party loyalty and telling it like it is, and why we should be wary of “grand bargains” on climate with oil and gas companies.Catherine served as Environment and Climate Change Minister from 2015-2019 and Infrastructure Minister from 2019-2021. She's now the founder and CEO of Climate and Nature Solutions and chairs a UN expert group advising the Secretary General on net zero commitments.Read further:Run Like A Girl - Catherine McKenna (2025)https://www.catherinemckenna.caChapters:00:00 Introduction & Run Like A Girl Book05:32 Lessons from Politics: Hard Work & Balance08:52 Climate Barbie & Political Harassment15:26 Running for Office in Ottawa Centre23:17 Being a Team Player vs. Speaking Truth32:05 Leaving Politics40:30 Climate Policy & the Oil & Gas “Grand Bargain”48:24 Supporting Others in Politics52:56 Carbon Pricing Communication Failures59:13 Gender Balance, Feminism & Cabinet01:04:04 Final Thoughts & ClosingTranscript:Nate Erskine-Smith00:02 - 00:38Well, thank you everyone for joining. This is a live recording of the Uncommon's podcast, and I'm lucky to be joined by Catherine McKenna, who has a very impressive CV. You will know her as the former Environment Minister. She is also the founder and CEO of Climate and Nature Solutions, a consultancy focused on all things environment and nature protection. And you may or may not know, but she's also the chair of a UN expert group that gives advice to the Secretary General on net zero solutions. So thank you for coming to Beaches East York.Catherine McKenna00:38 - 00:56It's great to be here. Hello, everyone. And special shout out to the guy who came from, all the way from Bowmanville. That's awesome. Anyone from Hamilton, that's where I'm originally found. All right. Nice, we got a shout out for Hamilton. Woo-hoo.Nate Erskine-Smith00:57 - 01:19So I ran down a few things you've accomplished over the years, but you are also the author of Run Like a Girl. I was at, you mentioned a book launch last night here in Toronto, but I attended your book launch in Ottawa. And you can all pick up a book on the way out. But who did you write this book for?Catherine McKenna01:21 - 02:58So, I mean, this book has been a long time in the making. It's probably been five years. It was a bit of a COVID project. And you'll see, it's good, I've got my prop here, my book. But you'll see it's not a normal kind of book. So it has a lot of images of objects and of, you know, pictures, pictures of me getting ready to go to the state visit dinner that was hosted by Obama while I'm trying to finalize the text on climate. So it's got like random things in it, but it's intended for a much broader audience. It's really intended to inspire women and girls and young people. And I think that's particularly important right now because I work on climate and I think it's really hard. Do people here care about climate? Yes, I imagine here you care about climate. I mean, I actually think most Canadians do because they understand the wildfires and they see the smoke and people are being evacuated from communities and you can't get insurance if you're in a flood zone. But I do think in particular we need to bolster spirits. But also it's a book, it's really about how to make change. It's not like people think it's like a political memoir. So I think, you know, fancy people in politics will look at the end of the book to see if their name is there and maybe be disappointed if it isn't. But it's not really that kind of book. It's like I was a kid from Hamilton. I didn't want to be a politician. That wasn't my dream when I grew up. I wanted to go to the Olympics for swimming. And spoiler alert, I did not make the Olympic team, but I went to Olympic trials.Nate Erskine-Smith02:59 - 02:59You're close.Catherine McKenna03:00 - 04:05I was, well, closest, closest, but, but it wasn't, I mean, you know, life is a journey and that wasn't, it wasn't sad that I didn't make it, but I think it's just to hopefully for people to think I can make change too. Like I didn't come as a fully formed politician that was, you know, destined to be minister for the environment and climate change. So in particular for women and young people who are trying to figure out how to make change, I think it's a little bit my story. I just tried to figure it out. And one day I decided the best way to make change was to go into politics and get rid of Stephen Harper. That was my goal. He was my inspiration, yes, because we needed a new government. And yeah, so I really, really, really am trying to reach a much broader audience because I think we often are politicians talking to a very narrow group of people, often very partisan. And that's not my deal. My deal is we need everyone to be making change in their own way. And I want people who are feeling like maybe it's a bit hard working on climate or in politics or on democracy or human rights that you too can make change.Nate Erskine-Smith04:06 - 05:17And you were holding it up. I mean, it's a bit of a scrapbook. You've described it. And it's also honest. I mean, there was some media coverage of it that was sort of saying, oh, you said this about Trudeau, calling him a loofer. And there's a certain honesty about I've lived in politics and I'm going to call it like it is. But what I find most interesting is not the sort of the gotcha coverage after the fact. It's when you go to write something, you said you're not a writer at the launch that I saw in Ottawa, but you obviously sat down and were trying to figure out what are the lessons learned. You've had successes, you've had failures, and you're trying to impart these lessons learned. You mentioned you sort of were going down that road a little bit of what you wanted to impart to people, but you've had six years in politics at the upper echelon of decision-making on a really important file. I want to get to some of the failures because we're living through some of them right now, I think. Not of your doing, of conservative doing, unfortunately. But what would you say are the lessons learned that you, you know, as you're crystallizing the moments you've lived through, what are those lessons?Catherine McKenna05:19 - 07:12It's funny because the lessons I learned actually are from swimming in a way that actually you got to do the work. That, you know, you set a long-term goal and, you know, whatever that goal is, whatever you hope to make change on. And then you get up and you do the work. And then you get up the next morning and you do the work again. And sometimes things won't go your way. But you still get up the next morning. And I think it's important because, like, you know, look, I will talk, I'm sure, about carbon pricing. We lost the consumer carbon price. There's a chapter. It's called Hard Things Are Hard. I'm also, like, really into slogans. I used to be the captain of the U of T swim team. So I feel like my whole life is like a Nike ad or something. Hard things are hard. We can do it. But yeah, I mean, I think that the change is incremental. And sometimes in life, you're going to have hard times. But the other thing I want people to take from it is that, you know, sometimes you can just go dancing with your friends, right? Or you can call up your book club. I would sometimes have hard days in politics. And I was like, oh, gosh, that was like, what? happened. So I'd send an email, it would say to my book club. So if you have book clubs, book clubs are a good thing. Even if you don't always read the book, that would be me. But I would be SOS, come to my house. And I'd be like, all I have is like chips and wine, but I just need to hang out with regular people. And I think that's also important. Like, you know, life is life. Like, you know, you got to do the work if you're really trying to make change. But some days are going to be harder and sometimes you're just trying to hang in there and I had you know I had I have three kids one of them they're older now one of them is actually manning the the booth selling the books but you know when you're a mom too like you know sometimes you're going to focus on that so I don't know I think my my lessons are I I'm too gen x to be like you've got to do this and INate Erskine-Smith07:12 - 07:16learned this and I'm amazing no that's not writing a graduation speech I'm not I'm not writing aCatherine McKenna07:16 - 08:43graduation speech and I don't know that you know the particular path I took is what anyone else is going to do I was going to I went to Indonesia to do a documentary about Komodo dragons because my roommate asked me to so that led me to go back to Indonesia which led me to work for UN peacekeeping and peacekeeping mission in East Timor but I think it's also like take risks if you're a young person Like, don't, people will tell you all the time how you should do things. And I, you know, often, you know, doubted, should I do this, or I didn't have enough confidence. And I think that's often, women often feel like that, I'll say. And, you know, at the end, sometimes you are right. And it's okay if your parents don't like exactly what you're doing. Or, you know, people say you should stay in corporate law, which I hated. Or, you know, so I don't know if there's so many lessons as a bit as, you know, one, you got to do the work to, you know, listen to what you really want to do. That doesn't mean every day you're going to get to do what you want to do. But, you know, if you're really passionate about working human rights, work on human rights, like figure out a way to do it and then also have some fun. Like life can feel really heavy. And I felt that during COVID. I think sometimes now after, you know, looking at, you know, social media and what Donald Trump has done or threatened to do, it can feel hard. So I think it's also OK to to just check out and have fun.Nate Erskine-Smith08:44 - 08:46I like it. Well, there aren't lessons, but here are three important lessons.Catherine McKenna08:48 - 08:50I am a politician. It's good. Well, it's OK.Nate Erskine-Smith08:50 - 09:57You mentioned a few times really writing this book in a way to young people and specifically to young women to encourage them to to make a difference and to get involved. and yet politics, we were both drawn to politics, I think for similar reasons, and it is one of the most important ways to make a difference, and I wanna get to you. There are other ways to make a difference, of course, but there's a bit of a tension, I think, in what you're writing, because you're writing this encouragement to make a difference, and politics is so important, and on the flip side, you document all sorts of different ways that politics has been truly awful, the absurdity of, I knew the ridiculous idiocy of Climate Barbie, but I didn't actually appreciate that you had these bizarre men coming to your house to take selfies in front of your house. That's just a next-level awfulness. And so how do you, when you're talking to young people, to encourage them on the one hand, but also you don't want to shield them from the awfulness, and we all want to make politics a more civil, better place, but these are problematic tensions.Catherine McKenna09:58 - 10:42Yeah, I mean, look, I thought a lot about what I wanted to say about like the hate and abuse that I got, but also my staff got. I mean, they come to my office and start screaming. And of course, everything's videotaped. So and, you know, there were incidents at my house. And so I first of all, I believe in being honest. Like, I just believe in it. I believe that people deserve the truth. But also in this case, I wasn't looking for sympathy. I'm out of politics. I don't need sympathy, but we need change. And so I think the only way, one of the only ways we get changed, and you know how hard it is to get policy, like online harm legislation. We still have not gotten online harm. In a way, it's kind of unfathomable that we can't just get it. Like, we know that online.Nate Erskine-Smith10:42 - 10:43C5 happened real quick, though. Don't worry.Catherine McKenna10:43 - 10:43Okay.Catherine McKenna10:44 - 10:48Well, luckily, I'm not in politics anymore. I'm not in politics anymore.Catherine McKenna10:48 - 11:48I just do my thing. But I do think that by documenting this, I'm hoping that people will read it and say, well, wait a minute, that's not OK, because that's how we will get the support to get legislation to make sure that we hold social media platforms accountable. that's the way that we will be able to get people to say to politicians, you cannot go and do personal attacks and then go spread them online to get to get clicks. And that we can get proper protection for politicians, which I don't love, but actually we need that sometimes. So I think that it is important to say that I don't want people to feel down because I have multiple purposes in the book. Like people are talking about this. And I've had a number of my female politician friends saying thank you for stepping up because now people are taking it more seriously because they're like wow that was bad like climate barbie sounds kind of quaint now but climate barbie led to a whole bunch of things that led to a bunch of things that led to rcmp finally being outside my house whichNate Erskine-Smith11:49 - 12:05wasn't amazing but at least i felt safe but it's one thing to say quaint but it normalizes a misogyny that is that is awful right yeah so it's and it might it might not be a direct threat it might not be taking a selfie outside of your home which is an implicit threat but it is it's normalizing an awfulness in our politics.Catherine McKenna12:06 - 12:10Yeah, I mean, it is. From other politicians. It was a former minister in Harper's CabinetNate Erskine-Smith12:10 - 12:11who started it, right?Catherine McKenna12:11 - 12:21It was, or at least amplified it. We'll go there, like the climate Barbie. Okay, so climate Barbie is, it's quite weird because now my kids are like, well, Barbie went to the moon.Catherine McKenna12:21 - 12:22Barbie was an asteroid.Catherine McKenna12:23 - 14:57Quinn is here, like, you know, Barbies are, like, you know, not that big a deal. The thing is, if you are my age, if anyone here is 50 or over, I think you're pretty clear when someone who's 50 or over calls you climate barbie there's a lot going on in that and i said nothing like i was actually baptized climate barbie very early on um by a rage farming alt-right outlet they are not media and that's what they do this is their game they go after progressives to make money actually um for clickbait but i didn't do anything for so long um and i guess my team was lovely and i had a lot of really awesome women and they're like just don't do it because you'll they'll know that you know they can go after you um and so i'm at the un actually it's like seven years ago i was just at the un last week yes i heard donald trump but i was there to work on climate but it was the same thing it was the end of a really long day i was going back to the hotel i was actually in the hotel lobby some crabby hotel with my team and i look at my phone i was like why is my twitter exploded what has happened and then i see the climate barbie tweet and i said to my team. I said, okay, I'm sorry. I'm just going to have to deal with this situation. And they knew, like, I'm, when I say I'm dealing with it, I'm going to deal with it. And so I, I, you know, I'm a lawyer by training. So I, you know, try, I am Irish. I've got the hot headed side and then I've got the lawyer rational side. So I was like, okay, what am I going to say? There's going to call it out, but in a way that isn't falling into the trap of just calling names. So I said, it's in this book. I'm not going to get exactly right, but it was something like, would you use that kind of language with your girlfriend, wife, mother? You're not chasing women out of politics. Your sexism is going to chase women, whatever it was. And what was so interesting about this, and this is why in this book, I do the same thing, is that it went viral. And I wasn't trying to do this. I was trying to shame him so he would stop. And people like would stop me in the streets. And it would be, you know, conservative men, they'd be like, I'm a conservative, I'm ashamed. This is not acceptable. And I really appreciate this. This is how you stand up to bullies. And I thought, oh, this is important that we do this every once in a while, because often as a woman, you're kind of supposed to take it because otherwise you look a bit weak. And I realized actually the power is other people saying that this is not okay. So I actually appreciate that you call it out. You will see in my book. I will just let me see if I can find it. I also, like, kind of bizarrely, a bunch of, like, men would send me Barbies with really mean notes.Catherine McKenna14:57 - 15:04So they'd go to a store, buy a Barbie, then go and find the address of my constituency office or my ministerial office,Catherine McKenna15:05 - 15:32and then send it with a note that they personally addressed. Like, that's kind of weird. So anyway, the funny thing is, I guess, is it funny? I don't know. It's just it. There's a Barbie. This is actually a picture of one of the Barbies that was sent. We would normally put our Barbies in the Christmas toy drive. I guess we figured might as well give it to, you know, kids that would like the Barbie. But I found one when I was cleaning up my office. And I was like, oh, I'm going to just keep that. I'm going to like, you know, just keep that. So you can...Nate Erskine-Smith15:32 - 15:33No one's sending you Barbies.Catherine McKenna15:33 - 15:38I have a book of just... No one's sending you Barbies. Glorious things that people have sent, like written notes that people have sent over the yearsNate Erskine-Smith15:38 - 16:33where you're just like, this is the most bizarre thing to have received. And, you know, in 10 years in politics, the scrapbook grows. So speaking of, you mentioned Harper being an inspiration of sorts. You also have said, I'm just a regular person who wanted to make a change. And politics, you also said, I didn't want to be a politician. I want to be an Olympian. But you also document Sheila Copps as someone you looked up to. You mentioned your dad being very political. And Pierre Elliott Trudeau was the person in politics who was a bit of an inspiration for your dad and family. And so Harper, obviously, a motivating force for me as well in the lead up to 2015. I think there's a whole class of us in the lead up to 2015 that wanted a different kind of politics. How did you get on the ballot, though? It was you were a lawyer and you thought, no, this is this particular moment. Were people tapping on the shoulder and saying, come on, Catherine, now's the time?Catherine McKenna16:37 - 18:52Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a funny story because women often have to be asked multiple times. The thing is, I'd already been asked before 2015. And it's kind of funny because I saw my friend last night who's part of the story. So when Stéphane Dion was running, I went back to Hamilton. So that's where my parents, my dad passed away. But that's where my parents lived. And I was walking up my street. And the head of the riding association was like, would you like to run? So the election, I think, was already called. I'm pregnant. I live in Ottawa. And so I was like, oh, maybe I should think about that. So I asked my friend. He's like, well, I guess you won't have to knock on doors. So that was my first time getting asked. I did not run then. But I ran a charity that did human rights, rule of law, and good governance. I'd started this charity after having lived abroad with a friend. And, I mean, it was like banging your head on a wall in the pre-Harper times. We were trying to support human rights. We were working with indigenous youth in Canada focused on reconciliation. I cared about climate change. I was like, all of these things I'm trying to do outside of the system are a complete and utter waste of time. So I thought, OK, we've got to get rid of the government. So that's my theory of change now. My theory of change was create this charitable organization, and it's just not getting the impact. So I decided I was going to run, but I was in Ottawa Centre. So I don't know if many of you know Ottawa Centre. It's actually where Parliament's located, so it's great. It's a bike ride to work. But it was Paul Dewar, who was a really beloved NDP member of parliament. His mother had been mayor. And I really like Paul, too. But the reality is you've got to win, right? So you've got to win enough seats so you can form government. So I ran for two years. And it's interesting because I just decided to run. I canvassed, and so maybe the woman, this will maybe resonate a little bit. So I was like, okay, I really want to run, but I kind of need permission. I don't know why I thought I needed permission, but I did. So I went the rounds. And I like the Liberal Party, but it can be like an inside club. And I wasn't from Ottawa Centre. And so I think people were like a bit perplexed. They're like, we're kind of keeping this riding for a star candidate. And I was like, okay, what the heck? Who's a star?Catherine McKenna18:52 - 18:53Like, what's a star candidate?Catherine McKenna18:53 - 19:07Is that like a male lawyer who gives a lot of money to the Liberal Party? Like, I was like, seriously, what is a star candidate? Yeah, that's what it is. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. I don't know. You are a male. I ran when I was 29 and had no money.Nate Erskine-Smith19:07 - 19:09That was a setup. That was a setup.Catherine McKenna19:09 - 20:15No, it wasn't. Okay. Anyway, we'll just blow by that one. You're a little bit unusual. Okay. So we'll take you out of that. But anyway, it's quite funny because then I was like, and then people were like, actually, you should just get the party to go get you another riding that's winnable. So I was like, okay, on the one hand, you need a star candidate here for this great riding that, but on the flip side, no one can win. So I was like, okay, I don't really know. So I looked at, like, you know, I'm not a fool. I was a competitive swimmer. I want to win. So I looked at the numbers, and I realized, like, you know, if Justin Trudeau was then leader, if we did super well, we were in third place, and it was two years out. But if I worked really hard and we did super well, there was a shot at winning. So I just decided I'm going to run. And I got the chapters called The New Girls Club. And then I had men supporting me. It was fine. But I literally had a lot of women who were just like, I don't know if you can win. This is kind of bonkers. You're doing it. But I'm going to step up and give you some money. I'm going to go help sell nominations. And at that point, you had to sell them. And no one wanted to buy a nomination.Catherine McKenna20:15 - 20:20People are like, I don't want to be a party. I want to join a party, especially a liberal party.Catherine McKenna20:22 - 21:04And so those of you who are thinking about politics, how do you win a nomination? I was trying to sell memberships and people weren't buying them. I was like, oh gosh, every night I'm going out, I've got these kids and I'm going out and talking to people. And I'm spending two hours and getting one or two nominations, people signing up. So I actually realized it was my kids' friends' mothers whose names I didn't know. I just knew their kids. And I think they were like, wow, we don't really know anyone that would go into politics. But we actually think you'd be pretty good. And your kids would kind of nice. And I don't know. I'll just sign up. I don't care.Catherine McKenna21:04 - 21:06And so it was actually really heartening.Catherine McKenna21:07 - 23:15And I will say, like, for all the bad of politics, and there is some bad for sure. And you will read about it in my book. That campaign for two years, like, we knocked on more than 100,000 doors. We had the highest voter turnout in the country. We had, I had my own rules. Like, I was like, we're going to do this in the way that I believe in. and you know some like some of it was following the bomb a snowflake model like you know we wanted to run hard but we also engaged kids and it wasn't like we had just like a kid area we would have kid canvases and I just felt important to me and we went to low income parts of the riding where some people said they're not going to vote or we went to university we went to university residents they're like they're not going to vote actually they turned out in strong numbers and I got a ton of volunteers who, and people that knew my name, because like someone who knows someone who knows someone. So it was great. But I will say like, that's the one thing about getting involved in politics. You may be here. I met a couple of you who said younger people who said you'd like to run. You can do it. You don't need permission. You're gonna have to hustle. You're gonna have to build your team. But this isn't an in club. And I do sometimes worry that politics feels like an in club and it shouldn't be that like we need everyone who wants to step up and get involved in however they want to get involved to be able to do that and so that's my lesson read that chapter hopefully you feel quite inspired and when I knocked on the last door I didn't know if I would win or not but I knew we'd left it all on the ice and I felt great like I was like we also have another woman who has run here it's Kelly is it Kelly who's run a couple times you know what it's like like you build a team. Now you were in a super hard riding. I do hope you run again. But it, it's just this feeling of doing something that matters and bringing people together in a common cause that is bigger than yourself. And it's about believing you can improve lives and you can tackle climate change. So that was a great I hope you read it and feel like you can do it too, if you want to run because you can, I will say you got to work hard. That is one of the most important thing doors gotNate Erskine-Smith23:15 - 23:36got a knock on doors well so i want to get back to though you were emphasizing one this idea of an insider culture but at the same time the need to have a really local presence and it was people who who were on the ground in the community who who ultimately helped get you over the finish line the nomination i mean here you know sandy's working the bar i went to high school with his kids andCatherine McKenna23:36 - 23:41he signed up in the nomination you got sandy and he got us a beer and and you got claire and fredNate Erskine-Smith23:41 - 24:44here who again i went i went to high school with their kids and they signed up in the nomination probably for joining the Liberal Party for the first time. And you go down the list, and there are people who are behind you locally. And in part, I think when you get started, now you go, okay, well, I know this person in the party, I know that person in the party, I've lived in the party for 12, 13 years. But I was 29 when I was starting to run the nomination. No one was tapping me on the shoulder and going, like, you're a star candidate, whatever that means, as you say. And so it does require that desire to say, no one has to ask me. I'm going to go do it and I'm going to build my own local team. But it also gets, I think, at another tension of who is your team? Because you say at one point, sometimes you need to be on the outside so you can push the inside to do more. And so you're on the outside now and you can be probably more honest in your assessment of things and more critical. I have tried, though, at times over the 10 years to play that same role in caucus.Catherine McKenna24:46 - 24:49What? Nate? I thought you were always all in on everything. Yeah, all in on everything.Nate Erskine-Smith24:50 - 25:32But it does get to this idea of team. It's like, be a team player, be a team player, be a team player. And the answer back is, well, who's your team? And yeah, sure, of course the team is the Liberal caucus, but the team is also people in Beaches of East York, the people who are knocking doors with the nomination, people who are knocking doors in the election. And they also want accountability. They also want the party and the government to be the best version of itself. And so do you find you were when you think back at the six years that you were in. I mean, cabinet's a different level of solidarity, obviously. But do you think it's possible to navigate that, you know, critical accountability role inside the tent? Or do you think it's essential as you are now to be outside to play that, you know, that that truth function?Catherine McKenna25:34 - 25:46I mean, that's a that's a really hard question because I mean, I'm a team person. I just sound like I was captain of a swim team. But that doesn't team. So it's different. Like, I'll just have to distinguish like being in cabinet.Catherine McKenna25:47 - 25:52Like you do have cabinet solidarity. But in cabinet, let me tell you, like I spoke up.Catherine McKenna25:52 - 26:50I like everyone didn't didn't always like it, but I felt like I had an obligation to just say things. And that was as much to myself as it was to anyone else. But then once you do that, you know, there is this view that then you stand with the team or else you leave cabinet. That is hard. That is hard. But it's probably less hard than being in caucus where you feel like you might have less influence on the issues. The one time I felt this was actually when I was out, but it was hard to do. And this is when I spoke up and I said I felt it was time for Justin Trudeau to step down, like to like have a leadership race to allow someone new to come in. And it was funny because I got like all these texts like and I was out. Right. So you think not such a big deal. But I got texts from people and like saying, who do you think you are? Like, you know, we're a liberal team. And I was like, OK, this is weird because I get team, but team doesn't equal cult.Nate Erskine-Smith26:52 - 26:52Welcome to my world.Catherine McKenna26:56 - 28:06Nate and me, are we exactly the same? Probably not exactly the same, but no, no. but I think it's true because I was like, well, wait a minute. We also owe it to, in that case, it was also like, we got to win. Are we going to just go? Is this the way it's going? We're just going to allow us to go down even though it's clear that the wheels have come off the cart. And that was hard. But I thought about it, and I was just so worried about the other option. Like Pierre Paulyab, that was too much. And I was like, okay, if I can make a bit of a difference, I will take a hit. It's fine. But I like, look, there is it is really hard to navigate that. And I mean, obviously, if it's super chaotic and no one's supporting things, I mean, the government will fall and you can't get agendas through. There does have to be some leeway to say things like that is important. It's that line and the tension. And I know you've you've felt it. And, you know, we haven't always been on the same side of those things, probably. But that is hard. That is hard. And I don't know that there's any easy answer to that because you can't always be in opposition because you can't govern.Catherine McKenna28:07 - 28:09So I would actually put that to you, Nate.Catherine McKenna28:10 - 28:38No, but I think it's an interesting question for you because, as I said, I was in cabinet, so it was a little bit easier. I mean, you literally have to vote with the government. But for you, there were times that you decided to, you know, be your own voice and not necessarily, well, not when I say not necessarily, not support, you know, the government's position. like how did you make decisions on that like how do you decide this is the moment i'm going to do that sometimes i care but i don't care as much or maybe i've done it you know a few times and iNate Erskine-Smith28:38 - 31:51should stay together like how did you how do you make that choice so i i think that uh trudeau and running for his leadership one thing that drew me to him actually he was calling for generational renewal at the time which which appealed to me but he was also talking about doing politics differently and whether that promise was entirely realized or not you know you lived around the cabinet table you you know more than me in some ways but I would say the promise of freer votes was incredibly appealing to me as the kind of politics that I that I want to see because I do think you you want that grassroots politics you want people to be it sounds trite now but that idea of being voices for the community in Ottawa not the other way around but there is a there's a truth to that. And so how do you get there and also maintain unity? And I think they navigated that quite well when in the leadership and then it became part of our platform in 2015, he articulated this idea of, well, we're going to have whipped votes on platform promises. Do I agree with everything in the platform? No, but I'll bite my tongue where I disagree and I'll certainly vote with the government. Two, on charter rights and human rights issues. And then three, and this is more fraught but on confidence matters more fraught i say because there were moments where they made certain things confidence matters that i didn't think they should have but you know that was that was the deal and that was the deal that you know you make with constituents it's the deal that you make with with members of the liberal party beyond that i think it's more about how you go about disagreeing and then it's making sure that you've given notice making sure that you've explained your reasons i i've i've uh i've joked i've been on many different whips couches but uh andy leslie i thought was the best whip in part because he would say why are you doing this and you'd run through the reasons he goes well have you have you engaged with them like do they know yeah well have they tried to convince you otherwise yeah and but here are the reasons okay well sounds like you thought about it kid get in my office and it was a there was a you could tell why he was an effective general because he he built respect as between you uh whereas you know the other approach is you have to vote with us. But that's not the deal, and here's why. And it's a less effective approach from a whip. But I would say how you, you know, I've used the example of electoral reform. I wasn't going and doing media saying Justin Trudeau is an awful person for breaking this promise, and, you know, he's, this is the most cynical thing he could have possibly have done, and what a bait and switch. I wasn't burning bridges and making this personal. I was saying, you know, he doesn't think a referendum is a good idea. Here's why I think there's a better forward and here's why I think we here's a way of us maintaining that promise and here's why I don't think we should have broken the promise and you know different people in the liberal party of different views I think the way we go about disagreeing and creating space for reasonable disagreement within the party outside the party but especially within the party really matters and then sometimes you just have to say there's an old Kurt Vonnegut line it's we are who we pretend to be so be careful who you pretend to be and I think it's double each room politics and so you know you want to wake up after politics and think I did the thing I was supposed to do when I was there. And sometimes that means being a good team player, and other times it means standing up and saying what you think. Okay, but back to questions for you.Catherine McKenna31:52 - 31:57Do you like that one? That was pretty good. Just put Nate on the hot speed for a little bit.Nate Erskine-Smith31:59 - 33:01You can ask me questions, too. Okay, so I was going to ask you why not politics, but you've sort of said, I've heard you say you felt that you were done, and you did what you came to do. But I want to push back on that a little bit, because you did a lot of things, especially around climate. First climate plan, you put carbon pricing in place, a number of measures. I mean, that gets all the attention, and we can talk about the walk back on it. But there's stringent methane rules, there were major investments in public transit, there's clean electricity. You run down the list of different things that we've worked towards in advance. And then we talk about consumer carbon pricing, but the industrial carbon piece is huge. Having said that, do you worry you left at a time when the politics were toxic, but not as toxic as they are today around climate and certainly around carbon pricing? And do you feel like you left before you had made sure the gains were going to be protected?Catherine McKenna33:02 - 33:11I think the lesson I learned, you can never protect gains, right? Like, you're just going to always have to fight. And, like, I can't, like, when am I going to be in politics? So I'm, like, 120?Catherine McKenna33:12 - 33:12Like, sorry.Catherine McKenna33:14 - 34:43And it is really true. Like, when I, the weird thing, when, so I'd been through COVID. I had three teenagers, one who, as I mentioned, is here. And I really thought hard. Like, I turned 50. And, like, I'm not someone who's, like, big birthdays. It's, like, this existential thing. I wasn't sad. It was, like, whatever. But I was, like, okay, I'm 50 now. Like, you know, there's what do I want to do at 50? I really forced myself to do it. And I really felt like, remember, I got into politics to make change. So I just thought, what is the best way to make change? And I really felt it wasn't, I felt personally for myself at this point, it wasn't through politics. I really wanted to work globally on climate because I really felt we'd done a lot. And I did think we kind of landed a carbon price. and we'd gone through two elections and one at the Supreme Court. So I felt like, okay, people will keep it. We will be able to keep it. So I just felt that there were other things I wanted to do, and I'd really come when I – you know, I said I would leave when I had done what I'd come to do, and that was a really important promise to myself. And I really want to spend time with my kids. Like, you give up a lot in politics, and my kids were going off to university, and I'd been through COVID, and if any parents – anyone been through COVID, But if you're a parent of teenage kids, that was a pretty bleak time. I'd be like, do you guys want to play another game? And they're like, oh my God.Audience Q34:43 - 34:44As if, and then they go to their bed.Catherine McKenna34:44 - 35:15They'd be like, I'm doing school. And I'd be like, as if you're doing school, you're online. Probably playing video game. But what am I going to do, right? Let's go for another walk. They're like, okay, we'll go for a walk if we can go get a slushie. And I was like, I'm going to rot their teeth. And my dad was a dentist. So I was like, this is bad. But this is like, we're engaging for 20 minutes. Like it was really hard. And so I actually, when I made the decision, like, but the counter, the funny thing that is so hilarious now to me is I almost, I was like, I'm not going to leave because if I leave, those haters will thinkCatherine McKenna35:15 - 35:16they drove me out.Nate Erskine-Smith35:16 - 35:18So I was like, okay, I'm going to stay.Catherine McKenna35:18 - 35:20And like, it was bizarre. I was like, okay.Nate Erskine-Smith35:20 - 35:21I don't want to stay when I'm staying. I don't want to stay.Catherine McKenna35:21 - 35:46I don't think this is the most useful point of my, like, you know, part of what I, you know, this is this useful, but I'm going to stay because these random people that I don't care about are actually going to say, ha ha, I chased her out. So then I was like, okay, well, let's actually be rational here and, you know, an adult. So I made the decision. And I actually felt really zen. Like, it was quite weird after I did it, where it was actually politicians who would do it to me. They'd be like, are you okay?Catherine McKenna35:47 - 35:49And I'd be like, I'm amazing.Catherine McKenna35:49 - 36:05What are you talking about? And, like, you know, it was as if leaving politics, I would not be okay. And then people would say, like, is it hard not to have stuff? I was like, I'm actually free. I can do whatever I want. I can go to a microphone now and say whatever. Probably people will care a lot less. But I don't.Nate Erskine-Smith36:05 - 36:07You can do that in politics sometimes too.Catherine McKenna36:08 - 36:08Yes, Nate.Nate Erskine-Smith36:09 - 36:09Yes, Nate.Catherine McKenna36:09 - 39:32We know about that. Yeah, it was just. So anyway, I left politics. I was not. I do think that what I always worried about more than actually the haters thinking they won. It was that women and women and girls would think I love politics because of all the hate. And once again, I'll just repeat it because it's very important to me. The reason I say the things that happened to me in the book is not because I need sympathy. I don't. We do need change. And I felt when I left, I said I would support women and girls in politics. One of the ways I am doing it is making sure that it is a better place than what I had to put up with. Now, sadly, it's not because it's actually worse now. I hear from counselors. I hear from school board trustees. I hear from all sorts of women in politics, but also men, however you identify. Like, it's bad out there. And it's not just online. It is now offline. People think they can shout at you and scream at you and take a video of it, like put it in the dark web or wherever that goes. So, you know, that's bad. But I feel like, you know, people are like, oh, we got to stop that. And that's what's important. There's a nice letter here. So as I said, I have like random things in here. But there's this lovely gentleman named Luigi. I haven't talked about Luigi yet, have I? So I was at the airport and this gentleman came over to me. And I still get a little nervous when people, because I don't know what people are going to do. Like I probably 99% of them are very nice, but it only takes one percent. So I always get like slightly nervous. And I don't mean to be because I'm actually, as you can see, quite gregarious. I like talking to people, but never exactly sure. And he hands me a note and walks away. And I'm like, oh, God, is this like an exploding letter? Who knows? And I open it and it's in the book. So I'll read you his letter because it actually, I put it towards the end because I think it's really important. because you can see I asked Luigi if I could put his note so his note is here so Ms. McKenna I did not want to disturb you as I thought so I thought I would write this note instead because I identify as a conservative in all likelihood we probably would disagree on many issues I find it quite disturbing the level of abuse that you and many other female politicians must endure. It is unfortunate and unacceptable, and I make a point of speaking out when I see it. I hope that you take consolation in the fact that you and others like you are making it easier for the next generation of women, including my three daughters, Luigi. And I was like, this is like the nicest note. And I think that's also what I hope for my book like I hope people are like yeah we can be we can actually disagree but be normal and you know okay with each other and probably most people are um most people are like Luigi are probably not paying attention but there are people that aren't doing that and I think they're also fed sometimes by politicians themselves um who you know really ratchet things up and attack people personally and And so that's a long answer to I can't even remember the question. But I mean, I left politics and I was done. And that's not related to Luigi, but Luigi is a nice guy.Nate Erskine-Smith39:34 - 41:21It's a I think I've got those are my questions around the book. But I do have a couple of questions on climate policy because you're living and breathing that still. And although it's interesting, you comment about politicians. I mean, there's a deep inauthenticity sometimes where politicians treat it as a game. And there's these attacks for clicks. Or in some cases, especially when the conservatives were riding high in the polls, people were tripping over themselves to try and prove to the center that they could be nasty to and that they could score points and all of that. And so they all want to make cabinet by ratcheting up a certain nastiness. But then cameras get turned off and they turn human beings again to a degree. And so that kind of inauthenticity, I think, sets a real nasty tone for others in politics more generally. But on climate policy, I was in Edmonton for our national caucus meeting. I think I texted you this, but I get scrummed by reporters and they're asking me all climate questions. And I was like, oh, this is nice. I'm getting asked climate questions for a change. this is good. This is put climate back on the radar. And then a reporter says, well, are you concerned about the Carney government backtracking on climate commitments? And I said, well, backtracking on climate commitments. I mean, if you read the book Values, it'd be a very odd thing for us to do. Do you worry that we are backtracking? Do you worry that we're not going to be ambitious enough? Or do you think we're still, we haven't yet seen the climate competitiveness strategy? I mean, you know, here's an opportunity to say we should do much more. I don't know. But are you concerned, just given the dynamic in politics as they're unfolding, that we are not going to get where we need to get?Catherine McKenna41:22 - 42:31I mean, look, I'm like you. You know, first of all, I did get into politics. I wasn't an expert on climate, but I cared about climate because I have kids. Like, we have this truck that's coming for our kids, and I'm a mother, so I'm going to do everything I can. I was in a position that I learned a lot about climate policy, and climate policy is complicated, and you've got to get it right. But look, I mean, you know, Mark Carney knows as much about, you know, climate as an economic issue as anyone. And so, I mean, I'm certainly hopeful that you can take different approaches, but at the end of the day, your climate policy requires you to reduce emissions because climate change isn't a political issue. Of course, it's very political. I'm not going to understate it. I know that as much as anyone. But in the end, the science is the science. We've got to reduce our emissions. And you've probably all heard this rant of mine before, but I will bring up my rant again. I sometimes hear about a grand bargain with oil and gas companies. We did a grand bargain with oil and gas companies.Catherine McKenna42:31 - 42:31How did that work out?Catherine McKenna42:31 - 42:32Yeah.Catherine McKenna42:32 - 42:33How did that work out? Tell us. How did that work out?Catherine McKenna42:33 - 47:27Let me tell you how that worked out. So we were working really hard to get a national climate plan. And I saw it as an obligation of mine to work with provinces to build on the policies they had. The Alberta government had stood, so it was the government of Rachel Notley, but with Murray Edwards, who's the head of one of the oil and gas companies, with environmentalists, with economists, with indigenous peoples, saying, okay, this is the climate plan Alberta's going to do. A cap on emissions from oil and gas. a price on pollution, tough methane regs, and, you know, some other things. And so then we were pushed, and it was really hard. I was the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, where we had a climate emergency one day, and then we had a pipeline. The next, I talk about that. That was hard. But the reality is, we felt like that, you know, the Alberta government, we needed to support the NDP Alberta, you know, the NDP government at the time early on. And so then what did we get? Like, where are we right now? We basically, none of the, either those policies are gone or not effective. We got a pipeline at massive taxpayer costs. It's like 500% over. We have oil and gas companies that made historic record profits, largely as a result of Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine. What did they do with those profits? They said that they were going to invest in climate solutions. They were going to reduce their emissions. They were all in. But instead, they give their CEOs massive, massive historic bonuses. I'm from Hamilton. That's not a thing when you get these massive historic record bonuses. At the same time, they gave the money back to shareholders who were largely Americans. While they demanded more subsidies to clean up their own pollution, while we are in a climate crisis that is a fossil fuel climate crisis. I now feel taken for a fool because I believed that the oil and gas, like in particular, the oil sands would live up to their end of the bargain. You will see in the book also, I don't know, I probably can't find the page fast enough. I did pinky promises with kids because all these kids came up to me all the time and they said, like, I'm really working hard on climate change. You know, I've got a water bottle. I'm riding my bike. I'm doing like a used clothing drive, whatever it was. And I said, you know what? I'm doing my part, too. Let's do a pinky promise like a pinky swear. And we will promise to continue doing our part. Well, we all did our part. By the way, basically everyone in all sectors have done their part except for oil and gas when they had massive historic record profits. And I wrote a report for the UN Secretary General on greenwashing. And they were exhibit A, exhibit A on what greenwashing looks like, like saying you're doing things that you are not doing and while you're lobbying to kill every policy. So I just hope that people aren't taken for fools again. Like the grand bargain should be they should live up with their end of the bargain. Like that is what bargains are. You got to do what you say you were going to do. And they didn't do it. And as a result, it's extremely hard for Canada to meet our target because they are 30% and growing of our emissions. So I also think like, why are we paying? Why would taxpayers pay? So, look, I don't know. Hard things are hard, as my mug says that I was given by my team because I said it every single day, about 12 times a day. You have to make very tough decisions in government. And we're in a trade war. And also defending our we have to absolutely stand up and defend our sovereignty against the Trump regime, which is very dangerous and very destabilizing. but at the same time we can't not act on climate climate is a here and now problem it's not this fire problem like all these people were evacuated from communities the cost of climate change is massive people are not going to be able to be insured that's already happening and so i just think you gotta walk and chew gum you gotta like figure out how to you know build and grow the economy but you also need to figure out how to tackle climate change and reduce your emissions and to be honest, hold the sector that is most responsible for climate change accountable for their actions and also for their words because they said they were going to act on climate and they supported these policies and they are now still fighting to kill all these policies. You almost can't make it up. And I just don't think Canadians should be taken for fools and I think you've got to make a lot of choices with tax dollars. But I'm not in government And I think, you know, we have, you know, Mark Carney, he's very smart. He's doing a great job of defending Canada. You know, I think like everyone, I'm waiting to see what the climate plan is because it's extremely important. And the climate plan is an economic plan as much as anything else.Nate Erskine-Smith47:28 - 48:23And on that, I would say not just an economic plan, but when you talk about national resiliency, there's a promise in our platform to become a clean energy superpower. There's a promise in our platform to create an east-west transmission grid. And just in Ontario, when you look at the fact that not only are they doubling down on natural gas, but they're also importing natural gas from the United States. When solar, wind, storage is actually more cost effective, investments in east-west transmission grid and in clean energy would make a lot more sense, not only for the climate, not only for the economy, but also as a matter of resiliency and energy independence as well. Okay, those are my questions. So thank you for... Give a round of applause for Calvin. Thank you for joining. With the time that we've got left, Christian, we've got, what, 10, 15 minutes? What time is it? Okay, great. Okay, so does anyone have questions for Ms. McKenna?Audience Q48:25 - 49:09It's a question for both of you, actually. You guys have both been trailblazers in your own right, I think, inside and inside of politics. And you talk a lot about building your community and building your team, whether it's swimming or local politics, and also demanding space in those places to be competitive, all the way up from your local team up to the prime minister. But I'm curious on the other side of that, what does it look like to be a good teammate inside and inside of politics, and how do we support more people, for those of us that might not be running, but trying to get more people like you? Or maybe as an example, somebody that supported you in your run?Catherine McKenna49:11 - 49:56well i mean look i'm trying to do my part and so what i did and it's like what most of you did you go support people that you think are good that are running so i in the last election i went and i supported people that i thought were serious about climate including in ridings that we had never won before um and i also well probably especially those writings um and i also supported women candidates that was just a choice I mean but I think everyone getting involved in politics is a great way to do it but also you know when you think there's someone good that might be good to run you know you know talk to them about it and as I said for women they need to be asked often seven times I think is it so like for women maybe just start asking and if we get to the seventh time maybeNate Erskine-Smith49:56 - 51:38really good women will run and I would add I suppose just on locally I have found one, going into schools and talking politics and encouraging people to think about politics as an opportunity has translated into our youth council. It's then translated into our young liberals internship over the summer where we make sure people are able to be paid to knock on doors and just maintain involvement. And then a number of those people come through either our office and then they're working in politics in the minister's office or in the prime minister's office or they're going to law school or they're adjacent to politics and helping other people and just encouraging people to at least be close to politics so that they see politics as a way to make a difference, there will then be people that will want to run from that or help encourage other people to run. The second thing, and I'll use Mark Holland as an example, when I was running the nomination and I didn't have contacts in the party, but I had someone who knew Mark Holland and he gave me advice to think about it like concentric circles when you're running a nomination where you have people who are close to you and then the people who are close to you will have 10 people that are close to them that maybe they can sign them up for you or maybe they just are they open the door and I you know if so if someone opens the door to a conversation with me I feel pretty confident that I can close the sale but if the door is closed in my face I'm not gonna I'm not gonna even have an opportunity to and so just that idea of building out you start with your your home base and you build out from there build out from there so I just think I have in the last week had conversations with two people who want to run for office at some point, they're both under the age of 30, and I've given that same kind of advice of, here's what worked for me. It may work for you, it may not, it depends, but find where your home base is, and then just grow from there. And so I think just spending time, likeAudience Q51:39 - 52:30giving one's time to give advice like that is really important. Yeah. Building on that, that's, I wanted to, because I think that does nicely into what you said earlier, Catherine, about and really encouraging young women in particular to get into politics. But it's not just, it's all the peripheral people, people that are peripheral to politics, your concentric circles, so that you don't necessarily have to run for an office. And I appreciate what you've done for girls. But I also want you to know that, I mean, I'm older than you, and still you are a role model to me. Not only that, though, I have sons in their mid to late 20s. and I've made sure you're a role model and women like you are a role model to them because I think that's how change begins.Nate Erskine-Smith52:32 - 52:34This was entirely planted just for you, by the way.Catherine McKenna52:35 - 52:37No, but I think that's...Nate Erskine-Smith52:37 - 52:40So I do think that's important, right?Catherine McKenna52:40 - 53:26My book is not... Run Like a Girl, I'm a woman, I identify as a woman and there's a story about how I was told I ran like a girl and so it really bugged me. So it's kind of a particular thing. But I think that is important. Like, you know, this isn't exclusive. Although, you know, there are, you know, certain different barriers, at least that I'm aware of, you know, that if you're a woman, if you're LGBTQ2+, if you're racialized or indigenous, there could be different barriers. But I hear you. And I think, you know, we do have to inspire each other in a whole range of ways. So that is very nice. I hope that, I mean, I'm not, you know, looking to, you know, you know, for kudos. I really, but it is nice to hear that you can inspire people in a whole different way, you know, range of ways.Audience Q53:26 - 53:47It's really, yeah, it's really not about kudos. It's about, you know, it's not that my intent is not just to applaud you. It's just, it's to, it's to recognize you. And that's different, like being seen, holding place, holding space for people to be involved. And so I do have one actual question of this.Catherine McKenna53:48 - 53:50You can ask a question after that.Audience Q53:51 - 53:57Regarding pricing, carbon pricing, how would you communicate the rollout differently?Catherine McKenna53:58 - 54:43Well, I would actually fund it. So hard things at heart, I'm like, okay, well, first of all, we know the Conservatives were terrible. They lied about it. They misled. They didn't talk about the money going back. The problem is, like, we hampered ourselves too. And it was really quite weird because I was like, okay, well, we need an advertising budget because clearly this is a bit of a complicated policy. But the most important thing I need people to know is that we're tackling climate change and we're doing it in a way that we're going to leave low income and middle income people better off. You're going to get more money back. That's very, very important. The second part of the message is as important because I knew the conservatives were going to be like, you're just increasing the price of everything. But we were told we couldn't advertise. And I was like, why? And they said, well, because we're not like conservatives because they had done the, what was the plan?Nate Erskine-Smith54:43 - 54:51The economic action plan. The signs everywhere. They basically, what Ford does now, they were doing it.Catherine McKenna54:51 - 57:40So that sounds really good, except if you're me. Because I was like, well, no one really knows about it. So I'm like one person. And we got some caucus members, not all of them. But Nate will go out and talk about it. Some people will talk about it. But I said, people are entitled to know what government policy is, especially in this particular case, where you've literally got to file your taxes to get the rebate. Because that was the second mistake we made. I was told that we couldn't just do quarterly checks, which would be much more obvious to people, even if it was automatically deposited, you actually named it properly, which was another problem. But, you know, all of these things that are just normal things. And instead, we were told, I was told by the folks in the Canada Revenue Agency, there's no way we could possibly do quarterly checks. after COVID, when we did everything, we blew everything up, then they were like, oh, actually, and this was after me, but they were like, we can do quarterly chaps. I was like, well, that's really helpful. Like, that would have been nice, like a little bit longer, you know, like the beginning of this. And so I think like, we do need to be sometimes very tough, like, don't do things that sound great and are not, are really hampering your ability to actually deliver a policy in a way that people understand. So like, it's just a hard policy. Like, you know, people say, would you have done, what would you have done differently? Yes, I would have communicated it differently. I tried. Like, I was out there. I went to H&R Block because I saw a sign, and they were like, climate action incentive. Oh, by the way, we couldn't call it a rebate because the lawyers told us injustice. We couldn't do that, and I'm a lawyer. I was like, what? And so I should have fought that one harder too, right? Like, I mean, there's so many fights you can have internally as well, but, you know, there I am. I was like, oh, H&R Block, they're doing free advertising for us because they wanted people to file their taxes, so then I would make, I said to all caucus members, you need to go to your HR block and get a family. I don't even want to see you necessarily. I want a family to be sitting down being told they're getting money back. And, and so like, look, I think it's just a hard policy. And, and what happened though, I mean, read hard things are hard, but the chapter, but it's, um, and people will be like, I'm definitely not reading that chapter. You can skip chapters. This book is like, go back and forth, rip things out. I don't, you don't have to read it in chronological order or read particular chapters. But was if the price is going to go up every year, every year you better be ready to fight for it because every year you're literally creating this conflict point where conservatives are like, they're on it. They're like spending so much tax dollars to mislead people. Remember the stickers on the pump that fell off? That was quite funny. They actually fell off. But you're going to have to fight for it. And so we just, it's a hard, it's a very hard policy. I did everything I could. And I don't live with life with regrets. I think it was really important. And by the way, it's a case study outside of Canada.Catherine McKenna57:41 - 57:42Everyone's like, Canada.Catherine McKenna57:42 - 57:52I was like, oh, yeah, there is like a little different ending than you might want to know about what happened. But they're like, yes, this is, of course, how we should do it. Should be a price on pollution. Give the money back.Nate Erskine-Smith57:52 - 58:38I went to a movie at the Beach Cinema with my kids. And there was an ad. This is years ago. But there was an ad. So we were advertising. But it was advertising about the environment climate plan. and it was like people in canoes. And I was like, what is this trying to, like we're spending how much money on this to tell me what exactly? And I went to, Stephen was the minister, and I went, Stephen, can we please advertise Carbon Pricing Works, it's 10 plus percent of our overall plan, and 80% of people get more money back or break even. Just tell people those three things, I don't need the canoe. and then he was like oh we can't we we they tell it they tell us we can't do it no no and that'sCatherine McKenna58:38 - 58:55what you're often told like it is kind of weird internally the amount of times you're told no like on advertising it is a particular thing because like and so then you're like having a fight about comms i was like oh my gosh can we don't think the canoe is going to win this carbon and it didn't turns out i love canoeing by the way so maybe it would have convinced me if i wasNate Erskine-Smith58:55 - 59:01i think last question we'll finish with that with maryland hi i'm maryland and i also happen to beAudience Q59:01 - 01

This week Insiders is live from New York, where world leaders are meeting for the United Nations General Assembly.  

Questions have been raised over New Zealand's future in the Paris Accord, with National holding steady in support for the agreement. Yesterday, ACT's David Seymour said New Zealand should leave unless the terms are changed, but Prime Minister Chris Luxon said backing out would mean we aren't a trusted partner on trade - and would punish our farmers. Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says the Government has no plans to pull out, and they're committed to the emissions targets. "The reality is, is that we're a major export nation. I've just come back from Beijing on Friday, speaking with the Chinese Minister, they're committed to the Paris Agreement." LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A former Climate Change Minister believes New Zealand should stay in the Paris Climate Agreement. ACT leader David Seymour's announced a policy to leave the global pact unless rules are loosened for our farmers. New Zealand First has also floated the idea of withdrawing, as some larger nations have ditched it. Tim Groser told Kerre Woodham this goes against public sentiment. He says polls indicate a large majority of Kiwis believe we should do our share on climate change. LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Vanuatu's Climate Change Minister has said the Pacific now has more leverage in climate negotiations after the UN's top court found that countries can be held legally responsible for their greenhouse gas emissions. The president of the International Court of Justice, Yuji Iwasawa, said climate change is an urgent and existential threat. From the Hague, Jamie Tahana reports.

The Government says it's reinstating confidence in the Emissions Trading Scheme. It comes as the Climate Commission's calls for carbon credits to stay the same price, to maintain stability. Climate Change Minister Simon Watts told Mike Hosking while some carbon credit auctions haven't taken off, things are improving on other years. He says the previous Government was getting too involved and causing volatility, but he's turning things around. He says the Commission's told the Government its changes are working well, and it can keep its hand off the tiller. LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Government has revealed the New Zealand Green Investment Finance will stop making new investments - and will wind down its' existing portfolio. Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says it has invested almost $400 million into various projects, with 'limited' results. Watts says there's no need for the Government to be involved in this particular market going forward. LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A group of aid agencies have penned an open letter to the Foreign Minister, Finance Minister, and Climate Change Minister - calling for an increase in funding for Pacific nations to help them with the effects of climate change. The Council for International Development executive director Peter Rudd spoke to Ingrid Hipkiss.

Sam Fricker sits down with the Hon Chris Bowen on Diving Deep!In this must-listen episode, Olympian, entrepreneur, and social media creator Sam Fricker welcomes one of Australia's most experienced political leaders, the Hon Chris Bowen, to Diving Deep. With the country heading into an election, it's an especially pivotal time in politics, and there's no better guest to unpack the challenges and opportunities ahead.Chris Bowen has dedicated decades to public service, holding key roles including Treasurer, Minister for Immigration, Minister for Financial Services, and now, Minister for Climate Change and Energy. He's played a major role in shaping Australia's economic and energy policies, navigating everything from financial reforms to climate initiatives.This episode goes beyond politics—it's a deep dive into leadership, decision-making at the highest levels, and the future of Australia's energy landscape. Get a rare, behind-the-scenes look at what it takes to be a leader in today's world.Tune in now for an insightful and engaging conversation! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A former Climate Change Minister says it would be a mistake to withdraw from a global climate deal. ACT Leader David Seymour's floated the idea of New Zealand leaving the agreement, saying it's perhaps a discussion for a future election. Labour's calling on Prime Minister Christopher Luxon to recommit to the deal. Nick Smith told Mike Hosking it would be great if we could hold a consistent stance on this. He says the problem with an issue like climate change is if Government policy is flip-flopping all the time, you're not going to make any progress. LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Climate Change Minister says their latest plan could get us to our net zero 2050 target six years early. The Government's released its second Emissions Reduction Plan. Key policies include planting trees on Crown-owned land and introducing both a network of 10,000 EV charging points and agricultural emissions pricing by 2030. Simon Watts told Heather du Plessis-Allan this gives us a path to hit the goal as early as 2044. He says we need a plan that's practical and achievable, and they've been very conservative in some of their estimates. LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

New Zealand has pledged $10 million to a global fund to help developing countries respond to climate change damage. Minister-in-charge, Simon Watts has made the commitment at the UN Climate Change Summit in Azerbaijan. Watts says the contribution will help deliver effective support to help people in the most-affected regions build stronger communities. He explained that this will come out of New Zealand's overseas aid budget. LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The latest carbon credit auction found little success, but the Climate Change Minister says there's still some positives.  The Government's auction attracted no bidders, increasing the chances of millions of tonnes of permits going up in smoke come December.  The Government has announced measures to address the issue, shrinking the number of permits available over the next five years in an effort to flush out surplus credits.  Minister Simon Watts said that there is demand for the credits, as there is an active secondary market that is trading with good liquidity.  He said that the function of the government's market is to introduce supply to the market if necessary, and the purpose of the credits is to reduce emissions, not generate revenue for the government.  LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Climate Change Minister believes slashing 24 million carbon credits will fix the struggling Emissions Trading Scheme. Companies buy the credits in quarterly auctions - to offset their pollution output. Repeated failures to sell credits triggered the Climate Change Commission to advise there are too many cheap units available, in order to drive down emissions. Minister Simon Watts says it's a simple supply and demand fix, but he can't speculate on the price implications. "What we've done here today is make sure we've put some credibility back into this market - which hasn't been the case in the past." Changes to unit numbers kick in from 2025. LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Climate Change Minister is defending his emissions reduction plan after revealing it's no longer on track to meet its third emissions budget.  This is despite being on track under the policies of the last government.  Projections published at the end of 2023 based on policies from the last Government, showed the country hitting its first three emissions budgets. Under new projections published today, which incorporate decisions the new Government has made to bin a host of Labour-era policies like decarbonising heavy industry and subsidies for EVs, the government will sail 17 Mt CO2-e above that third budget, which runs from 2031–35.   The government is on track to meet its current budget, emissions budget 1, and the second emissions budget.   An emissions reduction plan is a document the Government releases under the Zero Carbon Act. It is meant to set out policies that will help the Government to meet its emissions budgets on the way to hit the Government's ultimate goal of net zero emissions for long-lived gasses in 2050. The Government has one more emissions budget to deploy to hit its third budget.   The Government released its draft plan today for consultation. A final plan will be published before the end of the year.  The new reduction plan includes investing in electric car chargers, waste minimisation, and planting thousands of hectares of pine and native trees.  Climate Change Minister Simon Watts told Mike Hosking this plan has a short-term focus.  He says the initiatives will support the struggling economy while also still hitting the first two targets.  LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Government has unveiled a five-point strategy to deal with climate change. It focuses on infrastructure and community preparedness, clean energy, tech and nature-based solutions.  Some climate advocacy groups are calling it a kick in the guts, meaningless and contradictory.  Minister Simon Watts told Andrew Dickens that the strategy is more vague because it's focusing on the big dots they want to focus on as a country, and the detailed plan will be coming in the next two weeks.  He said they'll be measuring their success via two targets, one being the end of next year, the other being the end of 2030.  LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Climate Change Minister says plans to reduce agricultural emissions must be balanced with maintaining New Zealand's production. The Government plans to change the law in order to to stop farming being charged with credit offsets through the Emissions Trading Scheme. It was the fallback plan if partnership group He Waka Eka Noa couldn't find an alternative way to charge agriculture. He Waka Eke Noa will be replaced and Simon Watts says he's committed to pricing agricultural emissions by 2030. "We want that to be industry and farmer-led, because our farmers are some of the most carbon-efficient farmers in the world." LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

​On the Heather du Plessis-Allan Drive Full Show Podcast for Tuesday, 11 June 2024, Detective Inspector Graham Pitkethley gives an update on his homicide investigation following the death of a Te Kuiti baby. The Climate Change Minister tells Heather why farmers shouldn't be paying for their emissions and will definitely be excluded from the Emissions Trading Scheme. The Commerce Commission has revealed the fuel price trick that costs motorists millions every year. Plus, the Huddle debates whether it's time we stopped paying politicians an accommodation allowance if they own the place they're staying in. Get the Heather du Plessis-Allan Drive Full Show Podcast every weekday evening on iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your podcasts. LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Climate Change Minister, Simon Watts, has just announced a cross party inquiry will be conducted by the Finance and Expenditure Committee into climate adaptation.

Last week on Shared Lunch James Shaw, former Climate Change Minister, joined Pattrick Smellie to talk climate investment. In this quick bite he shares how he sees the global transition to sustainable technologies as one of the most significant investment opportunities we've faced, spanning infrastructure, housing, transport, energy, waste management, agriculture, and more. Check out the full episode: 'Ride the wave or be the wave–James Shaw' For more or to watch on youtube—check out http://linktr.ee/sharedlunch Brought to you by Sharesies, with BusinessDesk. Appearance on Shared Lunch is not an endorsement by Sharesies of the views of the presenters, guests, or the entities they represent. Their views are their own. Shared Lunch is not financial advice. We recommend talking to a licensed financial adviser. You should review relevant product disclosure documents before deciding to invest. Investing involves risk. You might lose the money you start with. Content is current at the time.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

With James Shaw and Colin Keating

When it comes to climate investing: where are we? Where do we need to be? How will we get there?  We ask former Climate Change Minister and co-leader of the Green Party, James Shaw, before he leaves Parliament on May 1. Shaw explains that while much of his job was telling the truth about a bleak subject, he's buoyed by the ‘astonishing' amount of money that's going into so-called green finance globally. And he  believes the transition from fossil fuels is the greatest investment opportunity of a lifetime. You'll learn why climate reporting by listed companies is a gamechanger, the likely fate of forestry, why the carbon markets are failing, and what's misunderstood about methane. For more or to watch on youtube—check out http://linktr.ee/sharedlunch Brought to you by Sharesies, with BusinessDesk. Appearance on Shared Lunch is not an endorsement by Sharesies of the views of the presenters, guests, or the entities they represent. Their views are their own. Shared Lunch is not financial advice. We recommend talking to a licensed financial adviser. You should review relevant product disclosure documents before deciding to invest. Investing involves risk. You might lose the money you start with. Content is current at the time.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We've heard time and time again how important climate change is to our audience. So, we decided to interview the Climate Change Minister, Chris Bowen, about what the Australian Government is doing to accelerate action. Plus, we talked about the exact timeline for when the Government expects young people to be able to afford an electric vehicle. Hosts: Billi FitzSimons and Sam KoslowskiGuest: Chris Bowen, Climate Change MinisterAudio producer: Emmeline Peterson Do you have feedback for the podcast? Share your thoughts via our survey!Subscribe to The Daily Aus newsletterBuy our book No Silly Questions  Today's episode is sponsored by Kttipay. Head to KttiPay.com and download KttiPay. Splitting expenses not headaches.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This Sunday, after nine years as Green Party co-leader, including a five year stint as Climate Change Minister, James Shaw is stepping down. He's joining Susie to talk about everything other than politics and share some favourite music.

The Climate Change Minister, says the draft text of the COP28 summit agreement does not go far enough. The current text refers to reducing the consumption and production of fossil fuels in a just, orderly and equitable manner. The Minister Simon Watts is attending the COP summit in Dubai. He told Morning Report the wording in the draft text does not make a firm commitment to transition away from fossil fuels.

New Zealand's climate change minister says the commitment to "phase out fossil fuels" is primarily about coal, rather than gas. The International Energy Agency says current emissions reductions pledges are only one-third of what's needed by 2030 if implemented in full. Negotiations for a climate agreement are entering their last days at the UN's climate conference in Dubai. At the summit, the Minister Simon Watts expressed New Zealand's commitment to a future based on renewable fuels. He spoke to Ingrid Hipkiss from Dubai.

New Zealand has won the first Fossil of the Day award at COP-28 in Dubai. It's been awarded for the National-led Government's campaign promise it'll revoke the last Government's ban on offshore oil exploration. Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says Labour got the same award last year. He says it's just a distraction from the summit's real business. "We're focused on the things that really matter, and that's engaging with our national partners when we get over there on the ground. It's something that happens, but it's in the background." LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The new Climate Change Minister, Simon Watts, may have a tricky time defending the Government if he goes to the global climate summit starting on Wednesday. Scientists and lobby groups say it's crucial he attends. Climate change correspondent Eloise Gibson reports.

The coalition Government says it will repeal the ban on offshore oil and gas exploration. That's despite the United Nations saying the world is on track to produce around 110-percent more fossil fuels in 2030 than are needed to limit warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius. The extractive energy industry in New Zealand says fossil gas is needed to help the transition away from coal in energy plants. Minister of Climate Change Simon Watts spoke to Corin Dann.

Green Party co-leader and Climate Change Minister. Has he given up any hope of being in the next government? And has Labour's dark cloud offered the Greens a bit of a silver lining?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Green Party co-leader and Climate Change Minister has his chance to talk about his party's Ag policy, another failed carbon auction, the dirtiest election campaign ever and whether he's been misleading us about his academic career.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Finance Minister has apologised to the Climate Change Minister for failing to flag he was slashing millions of dollars for climate policies. The Labour government yesterday revealed nearly $4 billion in savings across the public service over the next four years. It comes on the eve of National's long-awaited tax plan, which will be funded through four new taxes. Here's our political reporter, Katie Scotcher. Gareth Hughes is a political commentator and a former Green Party MP. He spoke to Lisa Owen. [embed] https://players.brightcove.net/6093072280001/default_default/index.html?videoId=6335827684112

We ask the Climate Change Minister if the Government reset of the ETS (with a new floor price of $60/tonne) will stabilise the carbon market. It tanked after settings were tightened in Dec 2022, from $88 to just $33, with no credits traded in the first two auctions of 2023. And if the ideal scenario is eventually a carbon price of zero, where does that leave the carbon farmers currently planting trees?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Government has done a U-turn on the settings of the Emissions Trading Scheme. The change is following an order from the High Court to Climate Change Minister James Shaw to reconsider the original settings, due to a collapse in carbon prices. Climate change minister and Green Party co-leader James Shaw talked to Mike Hosking. LISTEN ABOVE.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

An agriculture advisory firm says the Emissions Trading scheme should be left untouched. Lewis Tucker & Co have penned an open letter to the Climate Change Minister asking that the ETS be left alone ahead of an upcoming review. Executive director Colin Jacobs is concerned the Government's creating uncertainty and potentially destabilising the ETS. "They're destabilising the ETS carbon markets and the forestry sector, which is not going to be pulled through anyone as we're looking to de-carbonise our economy." LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If polling out today is anything to go by, the Maori Party are going to be a force at this election. The Roy Morgan poll has the Party at 7 percent. Which is huge, it's the highest level of support the Party has ever registered. But that's not the thing that's convinced me they'll do well. What's convinced me is the movement of the voters in the poll. You can see clearly see voters moving from the Greens to the Maori Party. Greens down 2.5 percent, Maori Party up 2.5 percent. This is the very thing we've been warning about on the show for the last few weeks. The Maori Party is basically what the Green Party used to be. Radical, environmental, campaigners against poverty. They're doing the Greens, just better than the Greens. They're the ones standing outside the Oranga Tamariki facility at the weekend painting the boys demanding KFC on the roof as victims, planning to introduce a ghost house tax of 2 percent, introducing a failed bill to ban seabed mining and slamming the Government for failing to deal to climate change. The Greens can't do this stuff anymore. First, because they're part of the go-slow Government. And also because they're deliberately trying to tone it down so they don't freak out swing voters who know Labour comes with the Greens attached. But what it means is they're a watered-down version of themselves. Their wealth tax released last month was still kooky to me and you, but it was a lot less kooky than the plan they released last election to tax any wealth over $1 million- which is just a stock standard Auckland house. Marama Davidson's done bugger all to fix the housing crisis as the Associate Minister, James Shaw has failed to tax the farmers as Climate Change Minister and nothing is a bottom line ahead of this election. So far, there are literally no points of principal that are important enough for the Greens to give up the chance of being in Government. So that explains 2.5 percent of voters moving from them to their copy cats who are doing a better job of being the Greens. Now I don't think the Maori Party will be kingmakers at the election, but I reckon there's a good chance they will at least double their two MPs. LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We ask the Climate Change Minister about ag emissions from our major trading partners and whether that has any relevance (as per Act's policy). Also, we ask who is left to run the country and whether the Prime Minister may have to second some more Greens to be Cabinet Ministers!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A plan to price the country's agricultural emissions may be put out to pasture before it gets going, as National backs away from supporting it. A farmer and grower-led group - called He Waka Eke Noa - was set up in 2019 to work with the Government to develop a world-first pricing scheme. The Opposition has now declared the plan dead - the Climate Change Minister argues that puts New Zealand's ability to meet its climate targets in jeopardy. Political reporter Anneke Smith reports.

Top stories for 22 May 2023 It's the largest ever initiative to reduce carbon emissions, - a clean electric furnace at the Glenbrook Steel Mill in South Auckland . We'll speak to the company, Contact Energy, and the Climate Change Minister about the move Work to bring in stronger fire protections for high density housing was withdrawn just days before Wellington's fatal Loafers Lodge fire

There are hopes that decarbonisation efforts at New Zealand Steel can be extended to other industries. The company will be given 140-million dollars to help them switch half of their coal to electricity at their Glenbrook site. Climate Change Minister James Shaw says there are talks with other firms for investment to get emissions down. He told Mike Hosking that the Government is committed to the effort. Shaw says 67 projects have been funded through the Government fund. LISTEN ABOVESee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Climate Change Commission is warning decision makers that we can't plant our way out of trouble. It's released draft recommendations to the Government for the next Emissions Reduction Plan, and wants the focus shifted away from forestry as the default method. Instead, it wants the Government to pick up the pace on policies which directly cut emissions, such as renewable energy and electric vehicle infrastructure, cycleway development, and public transport investment. Climate Change Minister James Shaw spoke to Corin Dann.

Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has burned several more schemes on his policy bonfire and splashed more cash in a welfare boost as his popularity continues to increase in the latest poll. However, Hipkins' second big policy reprioritisation, particularly in the transport sector, has ruffled the feathers of their political ally the Green Party, which claims it will only make the country's future climate targets harder to achieve. Several policies have either been cut, refocused or delayed to help free up the capital for the Government's aim to reduce the cost of living, and Hipkins isn't ruling out more former priorities being torched. Hipkins told Newstalk ZB's Mike Hosking today that he was not trying to buy the election. “It is not at all what I have said.” As a Government, cost of living and recovering from the recent floods and cyclone was the top priority. Inflation had risen globally and New Zealand was not immune to this, Hipkins said. “I am not accepting Government spending is the primary driver of inflation.” However he conceded tax cuts and other decisions by the Government could have an impact on it. Hipkins said he did not want people on low income and superannuation “to go backwards” with the cost of living increase. “Government had to do something to bring inflation down. Interest rates will start to have an effect now.” A recent forecast from most bank economists showed inflation starting to come down from next year, Hipkins said. “Inflation is starting to trend down internationally.” Asked about retail crime, Hipkins said there needed to be more work to be done to combat it. He said the area of retail crime which had seen an increase was for shoplifting of amounts valued at under $500. “There has been a much higher level of reporting since 2017.” The fact that those businesses had reported more crime, gives police more tools to tackle it. “There was good progress made last year to tackle more serious retail offending such as aggravated robbery and ram raids. “We saw a spike last year. We made good progress, ram raiders were identified as repeat offenders, and we got them out of circulation. About 500 of those young people have been prosecuted.” Hipkins said Cabinet would receive more information on Three Waters in the next few weeks. Clean car scheme among several dumped policies Yesterday Hipkins tossed the $568 million clean car upgrade scheme that allowed people to scrap old cars to gain a grant for a more environmentally friendly vehicle, staggered the rollout of Auckland light rail, narrowed the speed reduction programme, stopped the social leasing car scheme and refocused public transport goals in Auckland, Hamilton, Tauranga, Wellington and Christchurch. Hipkins said today that the removal of a couple of policies the Government had previously been investigating - including the old vehicle scrappage scheme and the social leasing scheme - was due to the fact that they would have made a very small contribution to our overall emissions budgets. There were other things the Government was doing that were proving to be more successful and had the potential to reduce the emissions by a much greater amount. ”This is about looking across the work programme and saying: ‘Okay, what's actually going to deliver the sort of change that we need? What's actually going to help New Zealanders with the cost of living?' And making sure that we're investing in and focusing in those things,” he told TVNZ. Asked if investing in those now old policies had been a waste of time, Hipkins said looking at the vehicle scrappage scheme and the social leasing scheme, the advice that he had received that both were going to prove to be “quite difficult” to implement in the time frame concerned. Between both of them, they were looking at something like 7000 tonnes of emissions reduction period. Contrasting that with the clean car upgrade scheme and the industrial carbonisation programmes, they are talking about millions of tonnes of carbon reduced within a similar time period for a lesser cost, Hipkins said. Hipkins rises in latest political poll Yesterday's bonfire came as the latest 1 News-Kantar poll on Monday led to Hipkins rising four percentage points to 27 per cent as the preferred PM, while National's Christopher Luxon dropped five points to 17 per cent - his lowest since taking on the role at the end of 2021. Labour dropped two points to 36 per cent while National fell three points to 34 per cent. The Greens and Act were both on 11 per cent, however, only the Left could form a government on those numbers - provided they were supported by Te Pāti Māori. Speaking to reporters at his post-Cabinet press conference, Hipkins defended his policy shift, saying the initiatives weren't sizeable or highly efficient contributors to the Government's efforts to reduce emissions and that more policies would be announced in due course that would help New Zealand meet its climate targets. Greens co-leader and Climate Change Minister James Shaw says he would have argued against cutting back on climate actions that would assist low-income families. “The Clean Car Upgrade would have provided households with more low-emissions choices about how to get around,” he said. “This doesn't sit well on top of the previous extension to the fossil fuel subsidies, which we know benefits the highest earners most.” Climate Change Minister and Greens co-leader James Shaw. Photo / Mark Mitchell He believed climate action was a “bread and butter issue” for many, especially those impacted by Cyclone Gabrielle. “Every time we kick climate action into the future, we make it harder for ourselves to meet those targets.” The National Party's deputy leader, Nicola Willis, says it is well past time that the Government inflation-adjusted tax threshold and reduce the tax that working people pay. Speaking to Newstalk ZB's Kate Hawkesby this morning, Willis said the Government had sworn black and blue that they could not afford to do that. ”Well, actually, turns out there's a lot of fat in the system, they've found a lot of money down the back of the couch - so it's time to get its priorities straight and reduce the tax that New Zealanders pay.” On benefit top-ups and getting rid of what Hawkesby called “the hated policies”, Willis said they actually agreed with those changes. ”What they're doing is correcting their own mistake. They change the way that superannuation and other benefits were calculated. “Instead of those being tagged to inflation - as they have been in the past - they tagged them to average wages. Of course, the problem is over these past few years under Labour, average wages aren't keeping up with prices - aren't keeping up with inflation.” Willis said they were pleased to see superannuants getting the payments they deserve. But what was needed as a country was a plan to get inflation under control - something that had yet to be seen from the Government, Willis said. ”What we need to see is reductions in wasteful spending elsewhere, so that we can prioritise money to the places where it counts.” National leader Christopher Luxon yesterday cited rising food prices and high inflation in his criticism of the Government's reprioritisation, while restating his call for inflation-adjusted tax thresholds. “My message to Chris Hipkins is, stop spending and cut taxes,” he said. “[Yesterday's] moves are no more than a rounding error - pocket change in Labour's grand scheme to spend, spend, spend with nothing to show for it except Kiwis struggling to feed their families with food prices spiralling.” Act leader David Seymour also doubted the value of the Government's policy shift. “New Zealanders need real change, [Chris] Hipkins U-turning on a tiny handful of policies isn't fooling anyone.” Outside of transport, Cabinet also agreed to delay advice on alcohol pricing, sponsorship and advertising reform to April next year, chose not to introduce legislation to lower the voting age to 16 for general elections, deferred work on the container return scheme and pushed back public consultation on a new test to determine the difference between a contractor and an employee. This tranche of reprioritisation, along with Hipkins' first round of cuts, would give the Government more than $1 billion to be redirected to measures to reduce the cost of living. Prime Minister Chris Hipkins during his post-Cabinet press conference at Parliament in Wellington. Photo / Mark Mitchell Auckland's light rail survived the cut but would be staged. The first stage was expected to be confirmed by the middle of the year. “Staging the rollout will align it with other critical transport investments, particularly the second Waitematā Harbour Crossing,” Hipkins said. Speed limit changes, which had been intended to apply to 20-30 per cent of state highways in the next five years, would now be focused on the most dangerous 1 per cent of roads and where local communities supported the change. Neither the Prime Minister nor Waka Kotahi could provide the Herald with a list of what roads would be chosen, the latter saying its state highway speed management plan would be reviewed in light of today's announcement. Alongside the policy reprioritisation, Hipkins announced the annual adjustment of benefits, superannuation and other financial support in a $2b package that would see the incomes of about 1.4 million New Zealanders stay in line with inflation. The annual adjustments included an extra $311m to be spent over the next four years that allowed main benefits to be increased in line with inflation - 7.22 per cent - rather than the average wage rise as previously planned, which was costed at about $1.7b. - Adam Pearse, NZHSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Climate change activists are furious with the government's changes to the Agricultural Emissions Pricing Plan. Despite advice from the Climate Change Commission to base behavioural change on the rising price of carbon, farmers will be charged the lowest levvies possible. More trees will also be counted in offsetting emissions. Climate activist David Tong says it's a humiliating move for a Green party co-leader to be the Climate Change Minister at the time of this decision. James Shaw has declined to be interviewed on Morning Report, as has the Minister of Agriculture, Damien O'Connor. Tong spoke to Gyles Beckford.

The UN climate conference COP27 will soon be wrapping up after two weeks of talks and there's a possibility there may be no consensus reached. One focus has been compensating developing countries experiencing severe loss and damage from climate change, and New Zealand has committed $15m to this. Negotiators are still working to reach settlements on issues including climate finance, adaptation, and carbon markets. James Shaw spoke to Corin Dann from Egypt.

Top stories for 18 November A Dutch court has convicted three men of mass murder for their roles in the 2014 shooting down of Malaysia Arlines flight MH17. Two New Zealanders were aboard the flight. Backlash grows against National's proposal for boot camps for recidivists youths. we speak to the Climate Change Minister from Eygpt as COP 27 winds up.

Climate experts are not holding their breath for major breakthroughs in this year's annual UN climate conference. More than 45-thousand people including world leaders and our own Climate Change Minister are to descend on Sharm El Sheikh in Egypt for COP27. The meeting starts Sunday evening New Zealand time, but other significant global problems will complicate already difficult negotiations. Climate reporter Hamish Cardwell has more.