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Catherine McKenna joined me in person for a live recording of this episode at the Naval Club of Toronto here in our east end. We discussed her new book ‘Run Like a Girl', lessons learned from her six years in federal politics, the reality of political harassment, the tension between party loyalty and telling it like it is, and why we should be wary of “grand bargains” on climate with oil and gas companies.Catherine served as Environment and Climate Change Minister from 2015-2019 and Infrastructure Minister from 2019-2021. She's now the founder and CEO of Climate and Nature Solutions and chairs a UN expert group advising the Secretary General on net zero commitments.Read further:Run Like A Girl - Catherine McKenna (2025)https://www.catherinemckenna.caChapters:00:00 Introduction & Run Like A Girl Book05:32 Lessons from Politics: Hard Work & Balance08:52 Climate Barbie & Political Harassment15:26 Running for Office in Ottawa Centre23:17 Being a Team Player vs. Speaking Truth32:05 Leaving Politics40:30 Climate Policy & the Oil & Gas “Grand Bargain”48:24 Supporting Others in Politics52:56 Carbon Pricing Communication Failures59:13 Gender Balance, Feminism & Cabinet01:04:04 Final Thoughts & ClosingTranscript:Nate Erskine-Smith00:02 - 00:38Well, thank you everyone for joining. This is a live recording of the Uncommon's podcast, and I'm lucky to be joined by Catherine McKenna, who has a very impressive CV. You will know her as the former Environment Minister. She is also the founder and CEO of Climate and Nature Solutions, a consultancy focused on all things environment and nature protection. And you may or may not know, but she's also the chair of a UN expert group that gives advice to the Secretary General on net zero solutions. So thank you for coming to Beaches East York.Catherine McKenna00:38 - 00:56It's great to be here. Hello, everyone. And special shout out to the guy who came from, all the way from Bowmanville. That's awesome. Anyone from Hamilton, that's where I'm originally found. All right. Nice, we got a shout out for Hamilton. Woo-hoo.Nate Erskine-Smith00:57 - 01:19So I ran down a few things you've accomplished over the years, but you are also the author of Run Like a Girl. I was at, you mentioned a book launch last night here in Toronto, but I attended your book launch in Ottawa. And you can all pick up a book on the way out. But who did you write this book for?Catherine McKenna01:21 - 02:58So, I mean, this book has been a long time in the making. It's probably been five years. It was a bit of a COVID project. And you'll see, it's good, I've got my prop here, my book. But you'll see it's not a normal kind of book. So it has a lot of images of objects and of, you know, pictures, pictures of me getting ready to go to the state visit dinner that was hosted by Obama while I'm trying to finalize the text on climate. So it's got like random things in it, but it's intended for a much broader audience. It's really intended to inspire women and girls and young people. And I think that's particularly important right now because I work on climate and I think it's really hard. Do people here care about climate? Yes, I imagine here you care about climate. I mean, I actually think most Canadians do because they understand the wildfires and they see the smoke and people are being evacuated from communities and you can't get insurance if you're in a flood zone. But I do think in particular we need to bolster spirits. But also it's a book, it's really about how to make change. It's not like people think it's like a political memoir. So I think, you know, fancy people in politics will look at the end of the book to see if their name is there and maybe be disappointed if it isn't. But it's not really that kind of book. It's like I was a kid from Hamilton. I didn't want to be a politician. That wasn't my dream when I grew up. I wanted to go to the Olympics for swimming. And spoiler alert, I did not make the Olympic team, but I went to Olympic trials.Nate Erskine-Smith02:59 - 02:59You're close.Catherine McKenna03:00 - 04:05I was, well, closest, closest, but, but it wasn't, I mean, you know, life is a journey and that wasn't, it wasn't sad that I didn't make it, but I think it's just to hopefully for people to think I can make change too. Like I didn't come as a fully formed politician that was, you know, destined to be minister for the environment and climate change. So in particular for women and young people who are trying to figure out how to make change, I think it's a little bit my story. I just tried to figure it out. And one day I decided the best way to make change was to go into politics and get rid of Stephen Harper. That was my goal. He was my inspiration, yes, because we needed a new government. And yeah, so I really, really, really am trying to reach a much broader audience because I think we often are politicians talking to a very narrow group of people, often very partisan. And that's not my deal. My deal is we need everyone to be making change in their own way. And I want people who are feeling like maybe it's a bit hard working on climate or in politics or on democracy or human rights that you too can make change.Nate Erskine-Smith04:06 - 05:17And you were holding it up. I mean, it's a bit of a scrapbook. You've described it. And it's also honest. I mean, there was some media coverage of it that was sort of saying, oh, you said this about Trudeau, calling him a loofer. And there's a certain honesty about I've lived in politics and I'm going to call it like it is. But what I find most interesting is not the sort of the gotcha coverage after the fact. It's when you go to write something, you said you're not a writer at the launch that I saw in Ottawa, but you obviously sat down and were trying to figure out what are the lessons learned. You've had successes, you've had failures, and you're trying to impart these lessons learned. You mentioned you sort of were going down that road a little bit of what you wanted to impart to people, but you've had six years in politics at the upper echelon of decision-making on a really important file. I want to get to some of the failures because we're living through some of them right now, I think. Not of your doing, of conservative doing, unfortunately. But what would you say are the lessons learned that you, you know, as you're crystallizing the moments you've lived through, what are those lessons?Catherine McKenna05:19 - 07:12It's funny because the lessons I learned actually are from swimming in a way that actually you got to do the work. That, you know, you set a long-term goal and, you know, whatever that goal is, whatever you hope to make change on. And then you get up and you do the work. And then you get up the next morning and you do the work again. And sometimes things won't go your way. But you still get up the next morning. And I think it's important because, like, you know, look, I will talk, I'm sure, about carbon pricing. We lost the consumer carbon price. There's a chapter. It's called Hard Things Are Hard. I'm also, like, really into slogans. I used to be the captain of the U of T swim team. So I feel like my whole life is like a Nike ad or something. Hard things are hard. We can do it. But yeah, I mean, I think that the change is incremental. And sometimes in life, you're going to have hard times. But the other thing I want people to take from it is that, you know, sometimes you can just go dancing with your friends, right? Or you can call up your book club. I would sometimes have hard days in politics. And I was like, oh, gosh, that was like, what? happened. So I'd send an email, it would say to my book club. So if you have book clubs, book clubs are a good thing. Even if you don't always read the book, that would be me. But I would be SOS, come to my house. And I'd be like, all I have is like chips and wine, but I just need to hang out with regular people. And I think that's also important. Like, you know, life is life. Like, you know, you got to do the work if you're really trying to make change. But some days are going to be harder and sometimes you're just trying to hang in there and I had you know I had I have three kids one of them they're older now one of them is actually manning the the booth selling the books but you know when you're a mom too like you know sometimes you're going to focus on that so I don't know I think my my lessons are I I'm too gen x to be like you've got to do this and INate Erskine-Smith07:12 - 07:16learned this and I'm amazing no that's not writing a graduation speech I'm not I'm not writing aCatherine McKenna07:16 - 08:43graduation speech and I don't know that you know the particular path I took is what anyone else is going to do I was going to I went to Indonesia to do a documentary about Komodo dragons because my roommate asked me to so that led me to go back to Indonesia which led me to work for UN peacekeeping and peacekeeping mission in East Timor but I think it's also like take risks if you're a young person Like, don't, people will tell you all the time how you should do things. And I, you know, often, you know, doubted, should I do this, or I didn't have enough confidence. And I think that's often, women often feel like that, I'll say. And, you know, at the end, sometimes you are right. And it's okay if your parents don't like exactly what you're doing. Or, you know, people say you should stay in corporate law, which I hated. Or, you know, so I don't know if there's so many lessons as a bit as, you know, one, you got to do the work to, you know, listen to what you really want to do. That doesn't mean every day you're going to get to do what you want to do. But, you know, if you're really passionate about working human rights, work on human rights, like figure out a way to do it and then also have some fun. Like life can feel really heavy. And I felt that during COVID. I think sometimes now after, you know, looking at, you know, social media and what Donald Trump has done or threatened to do, it can feel hard. So I think it's also OK to to just check out and have fun.Nate Erskine-Smith08:44 - 08:46I like it. Well, there aren't lessons, but here are three important lessons.Catherine McKenna08:48 - 08:50I am a politician. It's good. Well, it's OK.Nate Erskine-Smith08:50 - 09:57You mentioned a few times really writing this book in a way to young people and specifically to young women to encourage them to to make a difference and to get involved. and yet politics, we were both drawn to politics, I think for similar reasons, and it is one of the most important ways to make a difference, and I wanna get to you. There are other ways to make a difference, of course, but there's a bit of a tension, I think, in what you're writing, because you're writing this encouragement to make a difference, and politics is so important, and on the flip side, you document all sorts of different ways that politics has been truly awful, the absurdity of, I knew the ridiculous idiocy of Climate Barbie, but I didn't actually appreciate that you had these bizarre men coming to your house to take selfies in front of your house. That's just a next-level awfulness. And so how do you, when you're talking to young people, to encourage them on the one hand, but also you don't want to shield them from the awfulness, and we all want to make politics a more civil, better place, but these are problematic tensions.Catherine McKenna09:58 - 10:42Yeah, I mean, look, I thought a lot about what I wanted to say about like the hate and abuse that I got, but also my staff got. I mean, they come to my office and start screaming. And of course, everything's videotaped. So and, you know, there were incidents at my house. And so I first of all, I believe in being honest. Like, I just believe in it. I believe that people deserve the truth. But also in this case, I wasn't looking for sympathy. I'm out of politics. I don't need sympathy, but we need change. And so I think the only way, one of the only ways we get changed, and you know how hard it is to get policy, like online harm legislation. We still have not gotten online harm. In a way, it's kind of unfathomable that we can't just get it. Like, we know that online.Nate Erskine-Smith10:42 - 10:43C5 happened real quick, though. Don't worry.Catherine McKenna10:43 - 10:43Okay.Catherine McKenna10:44 - 10:48Well, luckily, I'm not in politics anymore. I'm not in politics anymore.Catherine McKenna10:48 - 11:48I just do my thing. But I do think that by documenting this, I'm hoping that people will read it and say, well, wait a minute, that's not OK, because that's how we will get the support to get legislation to make sure that we hold social media platforms accountable. that's the way that we will be able to get people to say to politicians, you cannot go and do personal attacks and then go spread them online to get to get clicks. And that we can get proper protection for politicians, which I don't love, but actually we need that sometimes. So I think that it is important to say that I don't want people to feel down because I have multiple purposes in the book. Like people are talking about this. And I've had a number of my female politician friends saying thank you for stepping up because now people are taking it more seriously because they're like wow that was bad like climate barbie sounds kind of quaint now but climate barbie led to a whole bunch of things that led to a bunch of things that led to rcmp finally being outside my house whichNate Erskine-Smith11:49 - 12:05wasn't amazing but at least i felt safe but it's one thing to say quaint but it normalizes a misogyny that is that is awful right yeah so it's and it might it might not be a direct threat it might not be taking a selfie outside of your home which is an implicit threat but it is it's normalizing an awfulness in our politics.Catherine McKenna12:06 - 12:10Yeah, I mean, it is. From other politicians. It was a former minister in Harper's CabinetNate Erskine-Smith12:10 - 12:11who started it, right?Catherine McKenna12:11 - 12:21It was, or at least amplified it. We'll go there, like the climate Barbie. Okay, so climate Barbie is, it's quite weird because now my kids are like, well, Barbie went to the moon.Catherine McKenna12:21 - 12:22Barbie was an asteroid.Catherine McKenna12:23 - 14:57Quinn is here, like, you know, Barbies are, like, you know, not that big a deal. The thing is, if you are my age, if anyone here is 50 or over, I think you're pretty clear when someone who's 50 or over calls you climate barbie there's a lot going on in that and i said nothing like i was actually baptized climate barbie very early on um by a rage farming alt-right outlet they are not media and that's what they do this is their game they go after progressives to make money actually um for clickbait but i didn't do anything for so long um and i guess my team was lovely and i had a lot of really awesome women and they're like just don't do it because you'll they'll know that you know they can go after you um and so i'm at the un actually it's like seven years ago i was just at the un last week yes i heard donald trump but i was there to work on climate but it was the same thing it was the end of a really long day i was going back to the hotel i was actually in the hotel lobby some crabby hotel with my team and i look at my phone i was like why is my twitter exploded what has happened and then i see the climate barbie tweet and i said to my team. I said, okay, I'm sorry. I'm just going to have to deal with this situation. And they knew, like, I'm, when I say I'm dealing with it, I'm going to deal with it. And so I, I, you know, I'm a lawyer by training. So I, you know, try, I am Irish. I've got the hot headed side and then I've got the lawyer rational side. So I was like, okay, what am I going to say? There's going to call it out, but in a way that isn't falling into the trap of just calling names. So I said, it's in this book. I'm not going to get exactly right, but it was something like, would you use that kind of language with your girlfriend, wife, mother? You're not chasing women out of politics. Your sexism is going to chase women, whatever it was. And what was so interesting about this, and this is why in this book, I do the same thing, is that it went viral. And I wasn't trying to do this. I was trying to shame him so he would stop. And people like would stop me in the streets. And it would be, you know, conservative men, they'd be like, I'm a conservative, I'm ashamed. This is not acceptable. And I really appreciate this. This is how you stand up to bullies. And I thought, oh, this is important that we do this every once in a while, because often as a woman, you're kind of supposed to take it because otherwise you look a bit weak. And I realized actually the power is other people saying that this is not okay. So I actually appreciate that you call it out. You will see in my book. I will just let me see if I can find it. I also, like, kind of bizarrely, a bunch of, like, men would send me Barbies with really mean notes.Catherine McKenna14:57 - 15:04So they'd go to a store, buy a Barbie, then go and find the address of my constituency office or my ministerial office,Catherine McKenna15:05 - 15:32and then send it with a note that they personally addressed. Like, that's kind of weird. So anyway, the funny thing is, I guess, is it funny? I don't know. It's just it. There's a Barbie. This is actually a picture of one of the Barbies that was sent. We would normally put our Barbies in the Christmas toy drive. I guess we figured might as well give it to, you know, kids that would like the Barbie. But I found one when I was cleaning up my office. And I was like, oh, I'm going to just keep that. I'm going to like, you know, just keep that. So you can...Nate Erskine-Smith15:32 - 15:33No one's sending you Barbies.Catherine McKenna15:33 - 15:38I have a book of just... No one's sending you Barbies. Glorious things that people have sent, like written notes that people have sent over the yearsNate Erskine-Smith15:38 - 16:33where you're just like, this is the most bizarre thing to have received. And, you know, in 10 years in politics, the scrapbook grows. So speaking of, you mentioned Harper being an inspiration of sorts. You also have said, I'm just a regular person who wanted to make a change. And politics, you also said, I didn't want to be a politician. I want to be an Olympian. But you also document Sheila Copps as someone you looked up to. You mentioned your dad being very political. And Pierre Elliott Trudeau was the person in politics who was a bit of an inspiration for your dad and family. And so Harper, obviously, a motivating force for me as well in the lead up to 2015. I think there's a whole class of us in the lead up to 2015 that wanted a different kind of politics. How did you get on the ballot, though? It was you were a lawyer and you thought, no, this is this particular moment. Were people tapping on the shoulder and saying, come on, Catherine, now's the time?Catherine McKenna16:37 - 18:52Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a funny story because women often have to be asked multiple times. The thing is, I'd already been asked before 2015. And it's kind of funny because I saw my friend last night who's part of the story. So when Stéphane Dion was running, I went back to Hamilton. So that's where my parents, my dad passed away. But that's where my parents lived. And I was walking up my street. And the head of the riding association was like, would you like to run? So the election, I think, was already called. I'm pregnant. I live in Ottawa. And so I was like, oh, maybe I should think about that. So I asked my friend. He's like, well, I guess you won't have to knock on doors. So that was my first time getting asked. I did not run then. But I ran a charity that did human rights, rule of law, and good governance. I'd started this charity after having lived abroad with a friend. And, I mean, it was like banging your head on a wall in the pre-Harper times. We were trying to support human rights. We were working with indigenous youth in Canada focused on reconciliation. I cared about climate change. I was like, all of these things I'm trying to do outside of the system are a complete and utter waste of time. So I thought, OK, we've got to get rid of the government. So that's my theory of change now. My theory of change was create this charitable organization, and it's just not getting the impact. So I decided I was going to run, but I was in Ottawa Centre. So I don't know if many of you know Ottawa Centre. It's actually where Parliament's located, so it's great. It's a bike ride to work. But it was Paul Dewar, who was a really beloved NDP member of parliament. His mother had been mayor. And I really like Paul, too. But the reality is you've got to win, right? So you've got to win enough seats so you can form government. So I ran for two years. And it's interesting because I just decided to run. I canvassed, and so maybe the woman, this will maybe resonate a little bit. So I was like, okay, I really want to run, but I kind of need permission. I don't know why I thought I needed permission, but I did. So I went the rounds. And I like the Liberal Party, but it can be like an inside club. And I wasn't from Ottawa Centre. And so I think people were like a bit perplexed. They're like, we're kind of keeping this riding for a star candidate. And I was like, okay, what the heck? Who's a star?Catherine McKenna18:52 - 18:53Like, what's a star candidate?Catherine McKenna18:53 - 19:07Is that like a male lawyer who gives a lot of money to the Liberal Party? Like, I was like, seriously, what is a star candidate? Yeah, that's what it is. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. I don't know. You are a male. I ran when I was 29 and had no money.Nate Erskine-Smith19:07 - 19:09That was a setup. That was a setup.Catherine McKenna19:09 - 20:15No, it wasn't. Okay. Anyway, we'll just blow by that one. You're a little bit unusual. Okay. So we'll take you out of that. But anyway, it's quite funny because then I was like, and then people were like, actually, you should just get the party to go get you another riding that's winnable. So I was like, okay, on the one hand, you need a star candidate here for this great riding that, but on the flip side, no one can win. So I was like, okay, I don't really know. So I looked at, like, you know, I'm not a fool. I was a competitive swimmer. I want to win. So I looked at the numbers, and I realized, like, you know, if Justin Trudeau was then leader, if we did super well, we were in third place, and it was two years out. But if I worked really hard and we did super well, there was a shot at winning. So I just decided I'm going to run. And I got the chapters called The New Girls Club. And then I had men supporting me. It was fine. But I literally had a lot of women who were just like, I don't know if you can win. This is kind of bonkers. You're doing it. But I'm going to step up and give you some money. I'm going to go help sell nominations. And at that point, you had to sell them. And no one wanted to buy a nomination.Catherine McKenna20:15 - 20:20People are like, I don't want to be a party. I want to join a party, especially a liberal party.Catherine McKenna20:22 - 21:04And so those of you who are thinking about politics, how do you win a nomination? I was trying to sell memberships and people weren't buying them. I was like, oh gosh, every night I'm going out, I've got these kids and I'm going out and talking to people. And I'm spending two hours and getting one or two nominations, people signing up. So I actually realized it was my kids' friends' mothers whose names I didn't know. I just knew their kids. And I think they were like, wow, we don't really know anyone that would go into politics. But we actually think you'd be pretty good. And your kids would kind of nice. And I don't know. I'll just sign up. I don't care.Catherine McKenna21:04 - 21:06And so it was actually really heartening.Catherine McKenna21:07 - 23:15And I will say, like, for all the bad of politics, and there is some bad for sure. And you will read about it in my book. That campaign for two years, like, we knocked on more than 100,000 doors. We had the highest voter turnout in the country. We had, I had my own rules. Like, I was like, we're going to do this in the way that I believe in. and you know some like some of it was following the bomb a snowflake model like you know we wanted to run hard but we also engaged kids and it wasn't like we had just like a kid area we would have kid canvases and I just felt important to me and we went to low income parts of the riding where some people said they're not going to vote or we went to university we went to university residents they're like they're not going to vote actually they turned out in strong numbers and I got a ton of volunteers who, and people that knew my name, because like someone who knows someone who knows someone. So it was great. But I will say like, that's the one thing about getting involved in politics. You may be here. I met a couple of you who said younger people who said you'd like to run. You can do it. You don't need permission. You're gonna have to hustle. You're gonna have to build your team. But this isn't an in club. And I do sometimes worry that politics feels like an in club and it shouldn't be that like we need everyone who wants to step up and get involved in however they want to get involved to be able to do that and so that's my lesson read that chapter hopefully you feel quite inspired and when I knocked on the last door I didn't know if I would win or not but I knew we'd left it all on the ice and I felt great like I was like we also have another woman who has run here it's Kelly is it Kelly who's run a couple times you know what it's like like you build a team. Now you were in a super hard riding. I do hope you run again. But it, it's just this feeling of doing something that matters and bringing people together in a common cause that is bigger than yourself. And it's about believing you can improve lives and you can tackle climate change. So that was a great I hope you read it and feel like you can do it too, if you want to run because you can, I will say you got to work hard. That is one of the most important thing doors gotNate Erskine-Smith23:15 - 23:36got a knock on doors well so i want to get back to though you were emphasizing one this idea of an insider culture but at the same time the need to have a really local presence and it was people who who were on the ground in the community who who ultimately helped get you over the finish line the nomination i mean here you know sandy's working the bar i went to high school with his kids andCatherine McKenna23:36 - 23:41he signed up in the nomination you got sandy and he got us a beer and and you got claire and fredNate Erskine-Smith23:41 - 24:44here who again i went i went to high school with their kids and they signed up in the nomination probably for joining the Liberal Party for the first time. And you go down the list, and there are people who are behind you locally. And in part, I think when you get started, now you go, okay, well, I know this person in the party, I know that person in the party, I've lived in the party for 12, 13 years. But I was 29 when I was starting to run the nomination. No one was tapping me on the shoulder and going, like, you're a star candidate, whatever that means, as you say. And so it does require that desire to say, no one has to ask me. I'm going to go do it and I'm going to build my own local team. But it also gets, I think, at another tension of who is your team? Because you say at one point, sometimes you need to be on the outside so you can push the inside to do more. And so you're on the outside now and you can be probably more honest in your assessment of things and more critical. I have tried, though, at times over the 10 years to play that same role in caucus.Catherine McKenna24:46 - 24:49What? Nate? I thought you were always all in on everything. Yeah, all in on everything.Nate Erskine-Smith24:50 - 25:32But it does get to this idea of team. It's like, be a team player, be a team player, be a team player. And the answer back is, well, who's your team? And yeah, sure, of course the team is the Liberal caucus, but the team is also people in Beaches of East York, the people who are knocking doors with the nomination, people who are knocking doors in the election. And they also want accountability. They also want the party and the government to be the best version of itself. And so do you find you were when you think back at the six years that you were in. I mean, cabinet's a different level of solidarity, obviously. But do you think it's possible to navigate that, you know, critical accountability role inside the tent? Or do you think it's essential as you are now to be outside to play that, you know, that that truth function?Catherine McKenna25:34 - 25:46I mean, that's a that's a really hard question because I mean, I'm a team person. I just sound like I was captain of a swim team. But that doesn't team. So it's different. Like, I'll just have to distinguish like being in cabinet.Catherine McKenna25:47 - 25:52Like you do have cabinet solidarity. But in cabinet, let me tell you, like I spoke up.Catherine McKenna25:52 - 26:50I like everyone didn't didn't always like it, but I felt like I had an obligation to just say things. And that was as much to myself as it was to anyone else. But then once you do that, you know, there is this view that then you stand with the team or else you leave cabinet. That is hard. That is hard. But it's probably less hard than being in caucus where you feel like you might have less influence on the issues. The one time I felt this was actually when I was out, but it was hard to do. And this is when I spoke up and I said I felt it was time for Justin Trudeau to step down, like to like have a leadership race to allow someone new to come in. And it was funny because I got like all these texts like and I was out. Right. So you think not such a big deal. But I got texts from people and like saying, who do you think you are? Like, you know, we're a liberal team. And I was like, OK, this is weird because I get team, but team doesn't equal cult.Nate Erskine-Smith26:52 - 26:52Welcome to my world.Catherine McKenna26:56 - 28:06Nate and me, are we exactly the same? Probably not exactly the same, but no, no. but I think it's true because I was like, well, wait a minute. We also owe it to, in that case, it was also like, we got to win. Are we going to just go? Is this the way it's going? We're just going to allow us to go down even though it's clear that the wheels have come off the cart. And that was hard. But I thought about it, and I was just so worried about the other option. Like Pierre Paulyab, that was too much. And I was like, okay, if I can make a bit of a difference, I will take a hit. It's fine. But I like, look, there is it is really hard to navigate that. And I mean, obviously, if it's super chaotic and no one's supporting things, I mean, the government will fall and you can't get agendas through. There does have to be some leeway to say things like that is important. It's that line and the tension. And I know you've you've felt it. And, you know, we haven't always been on the same side of those things, probably. But that is hard. That is hard. And I don't know that there's any easy answer to that because you can't always be in opposition because you can't govern.Catherine McKenna28:07 - 28:09So I would actually put that to you, Nate.Catherine McKenna28:10 - 28:38No, but I think it's an interesting question for you because, as I said, I was in cabinet, so it was a little bit easier. I mean, you literally have to vote with the government. But for you, there were times that you decided to, you know, be your own voice and not necessarily, well, not when I say not necessarily, not support, you know, the government's position. like how did you make decisions on that like how do you decide this is the moment i'm going to do that sometimes i care but i don't care as much or maybe i've done it you know a few times and iNate Erskine-Smith28:38 - 31:51should stay together like how did you how do you make that choice so i i think that uh trudeau and running for his leadership one thing that drew me to him actually he was calling for generational renewal at the time which which appealed to me but he was also talking about doing politics differently and whether that promise was entirely realized or not you know you lived around the cabinet table you you know more than me in some ways but I would say the promise of freer votes was incredibly appealing to me as the kind of politics that I that I want to see because I do think you you want that grassroots politics you want people to be it sounds trite now but that idea of being voices for the community in Ottawa not the other way around but there is a there's a truth to that. And so how do you get there and also maintain unity? And I think they navigated that quite well when in the leadership and then it became part of our platform in 2015, he articulated this idea of, well, we're going to have whipped votes on platform promises. Do I agree with everything in the platform? No, but I'll bite my tongue where I disagree and I'll certainly vote with the government. Two, on charter rights and human rights issues. And then three, and this is more fraught but on confidence matters more fraught i say because there were moments where they made certain things confidence matters that i didn't think they should have but you know that was that was the deal and that was the deal that you know you make with constituents it's the deal that you make with with members of the liberal party beyond that i think it's more about how you go about disagreeing and then it's making sure that you've given notice making sure that you've explained your reasons i i've i've uh i've joked i've been on many different whips couches but uh andy leslie i thought was the best whip in part because he would say why are you doing this and you'd run through the reasons he goes well have you have you engaged with them like do they know yeah well have they tried to convince you otherwise yeah and but here are the reasons okay well sounds like you thought about it kid get in my office and it was a there was a you could tell why he was an effective general because he he built respect as between you uh whereas you know the other approach is you have to vote with us. But that's not the deal, and here's why. And it's a less effective approach from a whip. But I would say how you, you know, I've used the example of electoral reform. I wasn't going and doing media saying Justin Trudeau is an awful person for breaking this promise, and, you know, he's, this is the most cynical thing he could have possibly have done, and what a bait and switch. I wasn't burning bridges and making this personal. I was saying, you know, he doesn't think a referendum is a good idea. Here's why I think there's a better forward and here's why I think we here's a way of us maintaining that promise and here's why I don't think we should have broken the promise and you know different people in the liberal party of different views I think the way we go about disagreeing and creating space for reasonable disagreement within the party outside the party but especially within the party really matters and then sometimes you just have to say there's an old Kurt Vonnegut line it's we are who we pretend to be so be careful who you pretend to be and I think it's double each room politics and so you know you want to wake up after politics and think I did the thing I was supposed to do when I was there. And sometimes that means being a good team player, and other times it means standing up and saying what you think. Okay, but back to questions for you.Catherine McKenna31:52 - 31:57Do you like that one? That was pretty good. Just put Nate on the hot speed for a little bit.Nate Erskine-Smith31:59 - 33:01You can ask me questions, too. Okay, so I was going to ask you why not politics, but you've sort of said, I've heard you say you felt that you were done, and you did what you came to do. But I want to push back on that a little bit, because you did a lot of things, especially around climate. First climate plan, you put carbon pricing in place, a number of measures. I mean, that gets all the attention, and we can talk about the walk back on it. But there's stringent methane rules, there were major investments in public transit, there's clean electricity. You run down the list of different things that we've worked towards in advance. And then we talk about consumer carbon pricing, but the industrial carbon piece is huge. Having said that, do you worry you left at a time when the politics were toxic, but not as toxic as they are today around climate and certainly around carbon pricing? And do you feel like you left before you had made sure the gains were going to be protected?Catherine McKenna33:02 - 33:11I think the lesson I learned, you can never protect gains, right? Like, you're just going to always have to fight. And, like, I can't, like, when am I going to be in politics? So I'm, like, 120?Catherine McKenna33:12 - 33:12Like, sorry.Catherine McKenna33:14 - 34:43And it is really true. Like, when I, the weird thing, when, so I'd been through COVID. I had three teenagers, one who, as I mentioned, is here. And I really thought hard. Like, I turned 50. And, like, I'm not someone who's, like, big birthdays. It's, like, this existential thing. I wasn't sad. It was, like, whatever. But I was, like, okay, I'm 50 now. Like, you know, there's what do I want to do at 50? I really forced myself to do it. And I really felt like, remember, I got into politics to make change. So I just thought, what is the best way to make change? And I really felt it wasn't, I felt personally for myself at this point, it wasn't through politics. I really wanted to work globally on climate because I really felt we'd done a lot. And I did think we kind of landed a carbon price. and we'd gone through two elections and one at the Supreme Court. So I felt like, okay, people will keep it. We will be able to keep it. So I just felt that there were other things I wanted to do, and I'd really come when I – you know, I said I would leave when I had done what I'd come to do, and that was a really important promise to myself. And I really want to spend time with my kids. Like, you give up a lot in politics, and my kids were going off to university, and I'd been through COVID, and if any parents – anyone been through COVID, But if you're a parent of teenage kids, that was a pretty bleak time. I'd be like, do you guys want to play another game? And they're like, oh my God.Audience Q34:43 - 34:44As if, and then they go to their bed.Catherine McKenna34:44 - 35:15They'd be like, I'm doing school. And I'd be like, as if you're doing school, you're online. Probably playing video game. But what am I going to do, right? Let's go for another walk. They're like, okay, we'll go for a walk if we can go get a slushie. And I was like, I'm going to rot their teeth. And my dad was a dentist. So I was like, this is bad. But this is like, we're engaging for 20 minutes. Like it was really hard. And so I actually, when I made the decision, like, but the counter, the funny thing that is so hilarious now to me is I almost, I was like, I'm not going to leave because if I leave, those haters will thinkCatherine McKenna35:15 - 35:16they drove me out.Nate Erskine-Smith35:16 - 35:18So I was like, okay, I'm going to stay.Catherine McKenna35:18 - 35:20And like, it was bizarre. I was like, okay.Nate Erskine-Smith35:20 - 35:21I don't want to stay when I'm staying. I don't want to stay.Catherine McKenna35:21 - 35:46I don't think this is the most useful point of my, like, you know, part of what I, you know, this is this useful, but I'm going to stay because these random people that I don't care about are actually going to say, ha ha, I chased her out. So then I was like, okay, well, let's actually be rational here and, you know, an adult. So I made the decision. And I actually felt really zen. Like, it was quite weird after I did it, where it was actually politicians who would do it to me. They'd be like, are you okay?Catherine McKenna35:47 - 35:49And I'd be like, I'm amazing.Catherine McKenna35:49 - 36:05What are you talking about? And, like, you know, it was as if leaving politics, I would not be okay. And then people would say, like, is it hard not to have stuff? I was like, I'm actually free. I can do whatever I want. I can go to a microphone now and say whatever. Probably people will care a lot less. But I don't.Nate Erskine-Smith36:05 - 36:07You can do that in politics sometimes too.Catherine McKenna36:08 - 36:08Yes, Nate.Nate Erskine-Smith36:09 - 36:09Yes, Nate.Catherine McKenna36:09 - 39:32We know about that. Yeah, it was just. So anyway, I left politics. I was not. I do think that what I always worried about more than actually the haters thinking they won. It was that women and women and girls would think I love politics because of all the hate. And once again, I'll just repeat it because it's very important to me. The reason I say the things that happened to me in the book is not because I need sympathy. I don't. We do need change. And I felt when I left, I said I would support women and girls in politics. One of the ways I am doing it is making sure that it is a better place than what I had to put up with. Now, sadly, it's not because it's actually worse now. I hear from counselors. I hear from school board trustees. I hear from all sorts of women in politics, but also men, however you identify. Like, it's bad out there. And it's not just online. It is now offline. People think they can shout at you and scream at you and take a video of it, like put it in the dark web or wherever that goes. So, you know, that's bad. But I feel like, you know, people are like, oh, we got to stop that. And that's what's important. There's a nice letter here. So as I said, I have like random things in here. But there's this lovely gentleman named Luigi. I haven't talked about Luigi yet, have I? So I was at the airport and this gentleman came over to me. And I still get a little nervous when people, because I don't know what people are going to do. Like I probably 99% of them are very nice, but it only takes one percent. So I always get like slightly nervous. And I don't mean to be because I'm actually, as you can see, quite gregarious. I like talking to people, but never exactly sure. And he hands me a note and walks away. And I'm like, oh, God, is this like an exploding letter? Who knows? And I open it and it's in the book. So I'll read you his letter because it actually, I put it towards the end because I think it's really important. because you can see I asked Luigi if I could put his note so his note is here so Ms. McKenna I did not want to disturb you as I thought so I thought I would write this note instead because I identify as a conservative in all likelihood we probably would disagree on many issues I find it quite disturbing the level of abuse that you and many other female politicians must endure. It is unfortunate and unacceptable, and I make a point of speaking out when I see it. I hope that you take consolation in the fact that you and others like you are making it easier for the next generation of women, including my three daughters, Luigi. And I was like, this is like the nicest note. And I think that's also what I hope for my book like I hope people are like yeah we can be we can actually disagree but be normal and you know okay with each other and probably most people are um most people are like Luigi are probably not paying attention but there are people that aren't doing that and I think they're also fed sometimes by politicians themselves um who you know really ratchet things up and attack people personally and And so that's a long answer to I can't even remember the question. But I mean, I left politics and I was done. And that's not related to Luigi, but Luigi is a nice guy.Nate Erskine-Smith39:34 - 41:21It's a I think I've got those are my questions around the book. But I do have a couple of questions on climate policy because you're living and breathing that still. And although it's interesting, you comment about politicians. I mean, there's a deep inauthenticity sometimes where politicians treat it as a game. And there's these attacks for clicks. Or in some cases, especially when the conservatives were riding high in the polls, people were tripping over themselves to try and prove to the center that they could be nasty to and that they could score points and all of that. And so they all want to make cabinet by ratcheting up a certain nastiness. But then cameras get turned off and they turn human beings again to a degree. And so that kind of inauthenticity, I think, sets a real nasty tone for others in politics more generally. But on climate policy, I was in Edmonton for our national caucus meeting. I think I texted you this, but I get scrummed by reporters and they're asking me all climate questions. And I was like, oh, this is nice. I'm getting asked climate questions for a change. this is good. This is put climate back on the radar. And then a reporter says, well, are you concerned about the Carney government backtracking on climate commitments? And I said, well, backtracking on climate commitments. I mean, if you read the book Values, it'd be a very odd thing for us to do. Do you worry that we are backtracking? Do you worry that we're not going to be ambitious enough? Or do you think we're still, we haven't yet seen the climate competitiveness strategy? I mean, you know, here's an opportunity to say we should do much more. I don't know. But are you concerned, just given the dynamic in politics as they're unfolding, that we are not going to get where we need to get?Catherine McKenna41:22 - 42:31I mean, look, I'm like you. You know, first of all, I did get into politics. I wasn't an expert on climate, but I cared about climate because I have kids. Like, we have this truck that's coming for our kids, and I'm a mother, so I'm going to do everything I can. I was in a position that I learned a lot about climate policy, and climate policy is complicated, and you've got to get it right. But look, I mean, you know, Mark Carney knows as much about, you know, climate as an economic issue as anyone. And so, I mean, I'm certainly hopeful that you can take different approaches, but at the end of the day, your climate policy requires you to reduce emissions because climate change isn't a political issue. Of course, it's very political. I'm not going to understate it. I know that as much as anyone. But in the end, the science is the science. We've got to reduce our emissions. And you've probably all heard this rant of mine before, but I will bring up my rant again. I sometimes hear about a grand bargain with oil and gas companies. We did a grand bargain with oil and gas companies.Catherine McKenna42:31 - 42:31How did that work out?Catherine McKenna42:31 - 42:32Yeah.Catherine McKenna42:32 - 42:33How did that work out? Tell us. How did that work out?Catherine McKenna42:33 - 47:27Let me tell you how that worked out. So we were working really hard to get a national climate plan. And I saw it as an obligation of mine to work with provinces to build on the policies they had. The Alberta government had stood, so it was the government of Rachel Notley, but with Murray Edwards, who's the head of one of the oil and gas companies, with environmentalists, with economists, with indigenous peoples, saying, okay, this is the climate plan Alberta's going to do. A cap on emissions from oil and gas. a price on pollution, tough methane regs, and, you know, some other things. And so then we were pushed, and it was really hard. I was the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, where we had a climate emergency one day, and then we had a pipeline. The next, I talk about that. That was hard. But the reality is, we felt like that, you know, the Alberta government, we needed to support the NDP Alberta, you know, the NDP government at the time early on. And so then what did we get? Like, where are we right now? We basically, none of the, either those policies are gone or not effective. We got a pipeline at massive taxpayer costs. It's like 500% over. We have oil and gas companies that made historic record profits, largely as a result of Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine. What did they do with those profits? They said that they were going to invest in climate solutions. They were going to reduce their emissions. They were all in. But instead, they give their CEOs massive, massive historic bonuses. I'm from Hamilton. That's not a thing when you get these massive historic record bonuses. At the same time, they gave the money back to shareholders who were largely Americans. While they demanded more subsidies to clean up their own pollution, while we are in a climate crisis that is a fossil fuel climate crisis. I now feel taken for a fool because I believed that the oil and gas, like in particular, the oil sands would live up to their end of the bargain. You will see in the book also, I don't know, I probably can't find the page fast enough. I did pinky promises with kids because all these kids came up to me all the time and they said, like, I'm really working hard on climate change. You know, I've got a water bottle. I'm riding my bike. I'm doing like a used clothing drive, whatever it was. And I said, you know what? I'm doing my part, too. Let's do a pinky promise like a pinky swear. And we will promise to continue doing our part. Well, we all did our part. By the way, basically everyone in all sectors have done their part except for oil and gas when they had massive historic record profits. And I wrote a report for the UN Secretary General on greenwashing. And they were exhibit A, exhibit A on what greenwashing looks like, like saying you're doing things that you are not doing and while you're lobbying to kill every policy. So I just hope that people aren't taken for fools again. Like the grand bargain should be they should live up with their end of the bargain. Like that is what bargains are. You got to do what you say you were going to do. And they didn't do it. And as a result, it's extremely hard for Canada to meet our target because they are 30% and growing of our emissions. So I also think like, why are we paying? Why would taxpayers pay? So, look, I don't know. Hard things are hard, as my mug says that I was given by my team because I said it every single day, about 12 times a day. You have to make very tough decisions in government. And we're in a trade war. And also defending our we have to absolutely stand up and defend our sovereignty against the Trump regime, which is very dangerous and very destabilizing. but at the same time we can't not act on climate climate is a here and now problem it's not this fire problem like all these people were evacuated from communities the cost of climate change is massive people are not going to be able to be insured that's already happening and so i just think you gotta walk and chew gum you gotta like figure out how to you know build and grow the economy but you also need to figure out how to tackle climate change and reduce your emissions and to be honest, hold the sector that is most responsible for climate change accountable for their actions and also for their words because they said they were going to act on climate and they supported these policies and they are now still fighting to kill all these policies. You almost can't make it up. And I just don't think Canadians should be taken for fools and I think you've got to make a lot of choices with tax dollars. But I'm not in government And I think, you know, we have, you know, Mark Carney, he's very smart. He's doing a great job of defending Canada. You know, I think like everyone, I'm waiting to see what the climate plan is because it's extremely important. And the climate plan is an economic plan as much as anything else.Nate Erskine-Smith47:28 - 48:23And on that, I would say not just an economic plan, but when you talk about national resiliency, there's a promise in our platform to become a clean energy superpower. There's a promise in our platform to create an east-west transmission grid. And just in Ontario, when you look at the fact that not only are they doubling down on natural gas, but they're also importing natural gas from the United States. When solar, wind, storage is actually more cost effective, investments in east-west transmission grid and in clean energy would make a lot more sense, not only for the climate, not only for the economy, but also as a matter of resiliency and energy independence as well. Okay, those are my questions. So thank you for... Give a round of applause for Calvin. Thank you for joining. With the time that we've got left, Christian, we've got, what, 10, 15 minutes? What time is it? Okay, great. Okay, so does anyone have questions for Ms. McKenna?Audience Q48:25 - 49:09It's a question for both of you, actually. You guys have both been trailblazers in your own right, I think, inside and inside of politics. And you talk a lot about building your community and building your team, whether it's swimming or local politics, and also demanding space in those places to be competitive, all the way up from your local team up to the prime minister. But I'm curious on the other side of that, what does it look like to be a good teammate inside and inside of politics, and how do we support more people, for those of us that might not be running, but trying to get more people like you? Or maybe as an example, somebody that supported you in your run?Catherine McKenna49:11 - 49:56well i mean look i'm trying to do my part and so what i did and it's like what most of you did you go support people that you think are good that are running so i in the last election i went and i supported people that i thought were serious about climate including in ridings that we had never won before um and i also well probably especially those writings um and i also supported women candidates that was just a choice I mean but I think everyone getting involved in politics is a great way to do it but also you know when you think there's someone good that might be good to run you know you know talk to them about it and as I said for women they need to be asked often seven times I think is it so like for women maybe just start asking and if we get to the seventh time maybeNate Erskine-Smith49:56 - 51:38really good women will run and I would add I suppose just on locally I have found one, going into schools and talking politics and encouraging people to think about politics as an opportunity has translated into our youth council. It's then translated into our young liberals internship over the summer where we make sure people are able to be paid to knock on doors and just maintain involvement. And then a number of those people come through either our office and then they're working in politics in the minister's office or in the prime minister's office or they're going to law school or they're adjacent to politics and helping other people and just encouraging people to at least be close to politics so that they see politics as a way to make a difference, there will then be people that will want to run from that or help encourage other people to run. The second thing, and I'll use Mark Holland as an example, when I was running the nomination and I didn't have contacts in the party, but I had someone who knew Mark Holland and he gave me advice to think about it like concentric circles when you're running a nomination where you have people who are close to you and then the people who are close to you will have 10 people that are close to them that maybe they can sign them up for you or maybe they just are they open the door and I you know if so if someone opens the door to a conversation with me I feel pretty confident that I can close the sale but if the door is closed in my face I'm not gonna I'm not gonna even have an opportunity to and so just that idea of building out you start with your your home base and you build out from there build out from there so I just think I have in the last week had conversations with two people who want to run for office at some point, they're both under the age of 30, and I've given that same kind of advice of, here's what worked for me. It may work for you, it may not, it depends, but find where your home base is, and then just grow from there. And so I think just spending time, likeAudience Q51:39 - 52:30giving one's time to give advice like that is really important. Yeah. Building on that, that's, I wanted to, because I think that does nicely into what you said earlier, Catherine, about and really encouraging young women in particular to get into politics. But it's not just, it's all the peripheral people, people that are peripheral to politics, your concentric circles, so that you don't necessarily have to run for an office. And I appreciate what you've done for girls. But I also want you to know that, I mean, I'm older than you, and still you are a role model to me. Not only that, though, I have sons in their mid to late 20s. and I've made sure you're a role model and women like you are a role model to them because I think that's how change begins.Nate Erskine-Smith52:32 - 52:34This was entirely planted just for you, by the way.Catherine McKenna52:35 - 52:37No, but I think that's...Nate Erskine-Smith52:37 - 52:40So I do think that's important, right?Catherine McKenna52:40 - 53:26My book is not... Run Like a Girl, I'm a woman, I identify as a woman and there's a story about how I was told I ran like a girl and so it really bugged me. So it's kind of a particular thing. But I think that is important. Like, you know, this isn't exclusive. Although, you know, there are, you know, certain different barriers, at least that I'm aware of, you know, that if you're a woman, if you're LGBTQ2+, if you're racialized or indigenous, there could be different barriers. But I hear you. And I think, you know, we do have to inspire each other in a whole range of ways. So that is very nice. I hope that, I mean, I'm not, you know, looking to, you know, you know, for kudos. I really, but it is nice to hear that you can inspire people in a whole different way, you know, range of ways.Audience Q53:26 - 53:47It's really, yeah, it's really not about kudos. It's about, you know, it's not that my intent is not just to applaud you. It's just, it's to, it's to recognize you. And that's different, like being seen, holding place, holding space for people to be involved. And so I do have one actual question of this.Catherine McKenna53:48 - 53:50You can ask a question after that.Audience Q53:51 - 53:57Regarding pricing, carbon pricing, how would you communicate the rollout differently?Catherine McKenna53:58 - 54:43Well, I would actually fund it. So hard things at heart, I'm like, okay, well, first of all, we know the Conservatives were terrible. They lied about it. They misled. They didn't talk about the money going back. The problem is, like, we hampered ourselves too. And it was really quite weird because I was like, okay, well, we need an advertising budget because clearly this is a bit of a complicated policy. But the most important thing I need people to know is that we're tackling climate change and we're doing it in a way that we're going to leave low income and middle income people better off. You're going to get more money back. That's very, very important. The second part of the message is as important because I knew the conservatives were going to be like, you're just increasing the price of everything. But we were told we couldn't advertise. And I was like, why? And they said, well, because we're not like conservatives because they had done the, what was the plan?Nate Erskine-Smith54:43 - 54:51The economic action plan. The signs everywhere. They basically, what Ford does now, they were doing it.Catherine McKenna54:51 - 57:40So that sounds really good, except if you're me. Because I was like, well, no one really knows about it. So I'm like one person. And we got some caucus members, not all of them. But Nate will go out and talk about it. Some people will talk about it. But I said, people are entitled to know what government policy is, especially in this particular case, where you've literally got to file your taxes to get the rebate. Because that was the second mistake we made. I was told that we couldn't just do quarterly checks, which would be much more obvious to people, even if it was automatically deposited, you actually named it properly, which was another problem. But, you know, all of these things that are just normal things. And instead, we were told, I was told by the folks in the Canada Revenue Agency, there's no way we could possibly do quarterly checks. after COVID, when we did everything, we blew everything up, then they were like, oh, actually, and this was after me, but they were like, we can do quarterly chaps. I was like, well, that's really helpful. Like, that would have been nice, like a little bit longer, you know, like the beginning of this. And so I think like, we do need to be sometimes very tough, like, don't do things that sound great and are not, are really hampering your ability to actually deliver a policy in a way that people understand. So like, it's just a hard policy. Like, you know, people say, would you have done, what would you have done differently? Yes, I would have communicated it differently. I tried. Like, I was out there. I went to H&R Block because I saw a sign, and they were like, climate action incentive. Oh, by the way, we couldn't call it a rebate because the lawyers told us injustice. We couldn't do that, and I'm a lawyer. I was like, what? And so I should have fought that one harder too, right? Like, I mean, there's so many fights you can have internally as well, but, you know, there I am. I was like, oh, H&R Block, they're doing free advertising for us because they wanted people to file their taxes, so then I would make, I said to all caucus members, you need to go to your HR block and get a family. I don't even want to see you necessarily. I want a family to be sitting down being told they're getting money back. And, and so like, look, I think it's just a hard policy. And, and what happened though, I mean, read hard things are hard, but the chapter, but it's, um, and people will be like, I'm definitely not reading that chapter. You can skip chapters. This book is like, go back and forth, rip things out. I don't, you don't have to read it in chronological order or read particular chapters. But was if the price is going to go up every year, every year you better be ready to fight for it because every year you're literally creating this conflict point where conservatives are like, they're on it. They're like spending so much tax dollars to mislead people. Remember the stickers on the pump that fell off? That was quite funny. They actually fell off. But you're going to have to fight for it. And so we just, it's a hard, it's a very hard policy. I did everything I could. And I don't live with life with regrets. I think it was really important. And by the way, it's a case study outside of Canada.Catherine McKenna57:41 - 57:42Everyone's like, Canada.Catherine McKenna57:42 - 57:52I was like, oh, yeah, there is like a little different ending than you might want to know about what happened. But they're like, yes, this is, of course, how we should do it. Should be a price on pollution. Give the money back.Nate Erskine-Smith57:52 - 58:38I went to a movie at the Beach Cinema with my kids. And there was an ad. This is years ago. But there was an ad. So we were advertising. But it was advertising about the environment climate plan. and it was like people in canoes. And I was like, what is this trying to, like we're spending how much money on this to tell me what exactly? And I went to, Stephen was the minister, and I went, Stephen, can we please advertise Carbon Pricing Works, it's 10 plus percent of our overall plan, and 80% of people get more money back or break even. Just tell people those three things, I don't need the canoe. and then he was like oh we can't we we they tell it they tell us we can't do it no no and that'sCatherine McKenna58:38 - 58:55what you're often told like it is kind of weird internally the amount of times you're told no like on advertising it is a particular thing because like and so then you're like having a fight about comms i was like oh my gosh can we don't think the canoe is going to win this carbon and it didn't turns out i love canoeing by the way so maybe it would have convinced me if i wasNate Erskine-Smith58:55 - 59:01i think last question we'll finish with that with maryland hi i'm maryland and i also happen to beAudience Q59:01 - 01

Guest: Catherine McKenna, former MP and Minister of the Environment. Author of Run Like a Girl.

After a hiatus, we've officially restarted the Uncommons podcast, and our first long-form interview is with Professor Taylor Owen to discuss the ever changing landscape of the digital world, the fast emergence of AI and the implications for our kids, consumer safety and our democracy.Taylor Owen's work focuses on the intersection of media, technology and public policy and can be found at taylorowen.com. He is the Beaverbrook Chair in Media, Ethics and Communications and the founding Director of The Centre for Media, Technology and Democracy at McGill University where he is also an Associate Professor. He is the host of the Globe and Mail's Machines Like Us podcast and author of several books.Taylor also joined me for this discussion more than 5 years ago now. And a lot has happened in that time.Upcoming episodes will include guests Tanya Talaga and an episode focused on the border bill C-2, with experts from The Citizen Lab and the Canadian Association of Refugee Lawyers.We'll also be hosting a live event at the Naval Club of Toronto with Catherine McKenna, who will be launching her new book Run Like a Girl. Register for free through Eventbrite. As always, if you have ideas for future guests or topics, email us at info@beynate.ca Chapters:0:29 Setting the Stage1:44 Core Problems & Challenges4:31 Information Ecosystem Crisis10:19 Signals of Reliability & Policy Challenges14:33 Legislative Efforts18:29 Online Harms Act Deep Dive25:31 AI Fraud29:38 Platform Responsibility32:55 Future Policy DirectionFurther Reading and Listening:Public rules for big tech platforms with Taylor Owen — Uncommons Podcast“How the Next Government can Protect Canada's Information Ecosystem.” Taylor Owen with Helen Hayes, The Globe and Mail, April 7, 2025.Machines Like Us PodcastBill C-63Transcript:Nate Erskine-Smith00:00-00:43Welcome to Uncommons, I'm Nate Erskine-Smith. This is our first episode back after a bit of a hiatus, and we are back with a conversation focused on AI safety, digital governance, and all of the challenges with regulating the internet. I'm joined by Professor Taylor Owen. He's an expert in these issues. He's been writing about these issues for many years. I actually had him on this podcast more than five years ago, and he's been a huge part of getting us in Canada to where we are today. And it's up to this government to get us across the finish line, and that's what we talk about. Taylor, thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me. So this feels like deja vu all over again, because I was going back before you arrived this morning and you joined this podcast in April of 2020 to talk about platform governance.Taylor Owen00:43-00:44It's a different world.Taylor00:45-00:45In some ways.Nate Erskine-Smith00:45-01:14Yeah. Well, yeah, a different world for sure in many ways, but also the same challenges in some ways too. Additional challenges, of course. But I feel like in some ways we've come a long way because there's been lots of consultation. There have been some legislative attempts at least, but also we haven't really accomplished the thing. So let's talk about set the stage. Some of the same challenges from five years ago, but some new challenges. What are the challenges? What are the problems we're trying to solve? Yeah, I mean, many of them are the same, right?Taylor Owen01:14-03:06I mean, this is part of the technology moves fast. But when you look at the range of things citizens are concerned about when they and their children and their friends and their families use these sets of digital technologies that shape so much of our lives, many things are the same. So they're worried about safety. They're worried about algorithmic content and how that's feeding into what they believe and what they think. They're worried about polarization. We're worried about the integrity of our democracy and our elections. We're worried about sort of some of the more acute harms of like real risks to safety, right? Like children taking their own lives and violence erupting, political violence emerging. Like these things have always been present as a part of our digital lives. And that's what we were concerned about five years ago, right? When we talked about those harms, that was roughly the list. Now, the technologies we were talking about at the time were largely social media platforms, right? So that was the main way five years ago that we shared, consumed information in our digital politics and our digital public lives. And that is what's changing slightly. Now, those are still prominent, right? We're still on TikTok and Instagram and Facebook to a certain degree. But we do now have a new layer of AI and particularly chatbots. And I think a big question we face in this conversation in this, like, how do we develop policies that maximize the benefits of digital technologies and minimize the harms, which is all this is trying to do. Do we need new tools for AI or some of the things we worked on for so many years to get right, the still the right tools for this new set of technologies with chatbots and various consumer facing AI interfaces?Nate Erskine-Smith03:07-03:55My line in politics has always been, especially around privacy protections, that we are increasingly living our lives online. And especially, you know, my kids are growing up online and our laws need to reflect that reality. All of the challenges you've articulated to varying degrees exist in offline spaces, but can be incredibly hard. The rules we have can be incredibly hard to enforce at a minimum in the online space. And then some rules are not entirely fit for purpose and they need to be updated in the online space. It's interesting. I was reading a recent op-ed of yours, but also some of the research you've done. This really stood out. So you've got the Hogue Commission that says disinformation is the single biggest threat to our democracy. That's worth pausing on.Taylor Owen03:55-04:31Yeah, exactly. Like the commission that spent a year at the request of all political parties in parliament, at the urging of the opposition party, so it spent a year looking at a wide range of threats to our democratic systems that everybody was concerned about originating in foreign countries. And the conclusion of that was that the single biggest threat to our democracy is the way information flows through our society and how we're not governing it. Like that is a remarkable statement and it kind of came and went. And I don't know why we moved off from that so fast.Nate Erskine-Smith04:31-05:17Well, and there's a lot to pull apart there because you've got purposeful, intentional, bad actors, foreign influence operations. But you also have a really core challenge of just the reliability and credibility of the information ecosystem. So you have Facebook, Instagram through Meta block news in Canada. And your research, this was the stat that stood out. Don't want to put you in and say like, what do we do? Okay. So there's, you say 11 million views of news have been lost as a consequence of that blocking. Okay. That's one piece of information people should know. Yeah. But at the same time.Taylor Owen05:17-05:17A day. Yeah.Nate Erskine-Smith05:18-05:18So right.Taylor Owen05:18-05:2711 million views a day. And we should sometimes we go through these things really fast. It's huge. Again, Facebook decides to block news. 40 million people in Canada. Yeah.Taylor05:27-05:29So 11 million times a Canadian.Taylor Owen05:29-05:45And what that means is 11 million times a Canadian would open one of their news feeds and see Canadian journalism is taken out of the ecosystem. And it was replaced by something. People aren't using these tools less. So that journalism was replaced by something else.Taylor05:45-05:45Okay.Taylor Owen05:45-05:46So that's just it.Nate Erskine-Smith05:46-06:04So on the one side, we've got 11 million views a day lost. Yeah. And on the other side, Canadians, the majority of Canadians get their news from social media. But when the Canadians who get their news from social media are asked where they get it from, they still say Instagram and Facebook. But there's no news there. Right.Taylor Owen06:04-06:04They say they get.Nate Erskine-Smith06:04-06:05It doesn't make any sense.Taylor Owen06:06-06:23It doesn't and it does. It's terrible. They ask Canadians, like, where do you get people who use social media to get their news? Where do they get their news? and they still say social media, even though it's not there. Journalism isn't there. Journalism isn't there. And I think one of the explanations— Traditional journalism. There is—Taylor06:23-06:23There is—Taylor Owen06:23-06:47Well, this is what I was going to get at, right? Like, there is—one, I think, conclusion is that people don't equate journalism with news about the world. There's not a one-to-one relationship there. Like, journalism is one provider of news, but so are influencers, so are podcasts, people listening to this. Like this would be labeled probably news in people's.Nate Erskine-Smith06:47-06:48Can't trust the thing we say.Taylor Owen06:48-07:05Right. And like, and neither of us are journalists, right? But we are providing information about the world. And if it shows up in people's feeds, as I'm sure it will, like that probably gets labeled in people's minds as news, right? As opposed to pure entertainment, as entertaining as you are.Nate Erskine-Smith07:05-07:06It's public affairs content.Taylor Owen07:06-07:39Exactly. So that's one thing that's happening. The other is that there's a generation of creators that are stepping into this ecosystem to both fill that void and that can use these tools much more effectively. So in the last election, we found that of all the information consumed about the election, 50% of it was created by creators. 50% of the engagement on the election was from creators. Guess what it was for journalists, for journalism? Like 5%. Well, you're more pessimistic though. I shouldn't have led with the question. 20%.Taylor07:39-07:39Okay.Taylor Owen07:39-07:56So all of journalism combined in the entire country, 20 percent of engagement, influencers, 50 percent in the last election. So like we've shifted, at least on social, the actors and people and institutions that are fostering our public.Nate Erskine-Smith07:56-08:09Is there a middle ground here where you take some people that play an influencer type role but also would consider themselves citizen journalists in a way? How do you – It's a super interesting question, right?Taylor Owen08:09-08:31Like who – when are these people doing journalism? When are they doing acts of journalism? Like someone can be – do journalism and 90% of the time do something else, right? And then like maybe they reveal something or they tell an interesting story that resonates with people or they interview somebody and it's revelatory and it's a journalistic act, right?Taylor08:31-08:34Like this is kind of a journalistic act we're playing here.Taylor Owen08:35-08:49So I don't think – I think these lines are gray. but I mean there's some other underlying things here which like it matters if I think if journalistic institutions go away entirely right like that's probably not a good thing yeah I mean that's whyNate Erskine-Smith08:49-09:30I say it's terrifying is there's a there's a lot of good in the in the digital space that is trying to be there's creative destruction there's a lot of work to provide people a direct sense of news that isn't that filter that people may mistrust in traditional media. Having said that, so many resources and there's so much history to these institutions and there's a real ethics to journalism and journalists take their craft seriously in terms of the pursuit of truth. Absolutely. And losing that access, losing the accessibility to that is devastating for democracy. I think so.Taylor Owen09:30-09:49And I think the bigger frame of that for me is a democracy needs signals of – we need – as citizens in a democracy, we need signals of reliability. Like we need to know broadly, and we're not always going to agree on it, but like what kind of information we can trust and how we evaluate whether we trust it.Nate Erskine-Smith09:49-10:13And that's what – that is really going away. Pause for a sec. So you could imagine signals of reliability is a good phrase. what does it mean for a legislator when it comes to putting a rule in place? Because you could imagine, you could have a Blade Runner kind of rule that says you've got to distinguish between something that is human generatedTaylor10:13-10:14and something that is machine generated.Nate Erskine-Smith10:15-10:26That seems straightforward enough. It's a lot harder if you're trying to distinguish between Taylor, what you're saying is credible, and Nate, what you're saying is not credible,Taylor10:27-10:27which is probably true.Nate Erskine-Smith10:28-10:33But how do you have a signal of reliability in a different kind of content?Taylor Owen10:34-13:12I mean, we're getting into like a journalistic journalism policy here to a certain degree, right? And it's a wicked problem because the primary role of journalism is to hold you personally to account. And you setting rules for what they can and can't do and how they can and can't behave touches on some real like third rails here, right? It's fraught. However, I don't think it should ever be about policy determining what can and can't be said or what is and isn't journalism. The real problem is the distribution mechanism and the incentives within it. So a great example and a horrible example happened last week, right? So Charlie Kirk gets assassinated. I don't know if you opened a feed in the few days after that, but it was a horrendous place, right? Social media was an awful, awful, awful place because what you saw in that feed was the clearest demonstration I've ever seen in a decade of looking at this of how those algorithmic feeds have become radicalized. Like all you saw on every platform was the worst possible representations of every view. Right. Right. It was truly shocking and horrendous. Like people defending the murder and people calling for the murder of leftists and like on both sides. Right. people blaming Israel, people, whatever. Right. And that isn't a function of like- Aaron Charlie Kirk to Jesus. Sure. Like- It was bonkers all the way around. Totally bonkers, right? And that is a function of how those ecosystems are designed and the incentives within them. It's not a function of like there was journalism being produced about that. Like New York Times, citizens were doing good content about what was happening. It was like a moment of uncertainty and journalism was doing or playing a role, but it wasn't And so I think with all of these questions, including the online harms ones, and I think how we step into an AI governance conversation, the focus always has to be on those systems. I'm like, what is who and what and what are the incentives and the technical decisions being made that determine what we experience when we open these products? These are commercial products that we're choosing to consume. And when we open them, a whole host of business and design and technical decisions and human decisions shape the effect it has on us as people, the effect it has on our democracy, the vulnerabilities that exist in our democracy, the way foreign actors or hostile actors can take advantage of them, right? Like all of that stuff we've been talking about, the role reliability of information plays, like these algorithms could be tweaked for reliable versus unreliable content, right? Over time.Taylor13:12-13:15That's not a – instead of reactionary –Taylor Owen13:15-13:42Or like what's most – it gets most engagement or what makes you feel the most angry, which is largely what's driving X, for example, right now, right? You can torque all those things. Now, I don't think we want government telling companies how they have to torque it. But we can slightly tweak the incentives to get better content, more reliable content, less polarizing content, less hateful content, less harmful content, right? Those dials can be incentivized to be turned. And that's where the policy space should play, I think.Nate Erskine-Smith13:43-14:12And your focus on systems and assessing risks with systems. I think that's the right place to play. I mean, we've seen legislative efforts. You've got the three pieces in Canada. You've got online harms. You've got the privacy and very kind of vague initial foray into AI regs, which we can get to. And then a cybersecurity piece. And all of those ultimately died on the order paper. Yeah. We also had the journalistic protection policies, right, that the previous government did.Taylor Owen14:12-14:23I mean – Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can debate their merits. Yeah. But there was considerable effort put into backstopping the institutions of journalism by the – Well, they're twofold, right?Nate Erskine-Smith14:23-14:33There's the tax credit piece, sort of financial support. And then there was the Online News Act. Right. Which was trying to pull some dollars out of the platforms to pay for the news as well. Exactly.Taylor14:33-14:35So the sort of supply and demand side thing, right?Nate Erskine-Smith14:35-14:38There's the digital service tax, which is no longer a thing.Taylor Owen14:40-14:52Although it still is a piece of past legislation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It still is a thing. Yeah, yeah. Until you guys decide whether to negate the thing you did last year or not, right? Yeah.Nate Erskine-Smith14:52-14:55I don't take full responsibility for that one.Taylor Owen14:55-14:56No, you shouldn't.Nate Erskine-Smith14:58-16:03But other countries have seen more success. Yeah. And so you've got in the UK, in Australia, the EU really has led the way. 2018, the EU passes GDPR, which is a privacy set of rules, which we are still behind seven years later. But you've got in 2022, 2023, you've got Digital Services Act that passes. You've got Digital Markets Act. And as I understand it, and we've had, you know, we've both been involved in international work on this. And we've heard from folks like Francis Hogan and others about the need for risk-based assessments. And you're well down the rabbit hole on this. But isn't it at a high level? You deploy a technology. You've got to identify material risks. You then have to take reasonable measures to mitigate those risks. That's effectively the duty of care built in. And then ideally, you've got the ability for third parties, either civil society or some public office that has the ability to audit whether you have adequately identified and disclosed material risks and whether you have taken reasonable steps to mitigate.Taylor Owen16:04-16:05That's like how I have it in my head.Nate Erskine-Smith16:05-16:06I mean, that's it.Taylor Owen16:08-16:14Write it down. Fill in the legislation. Well, I mean, that process happened. I know. That's right. I know.Nate Erskine-Smith16:14-16:25Exactly. Which people, I want to get to that because C63 gets us a large part of the way there. I think so. And yet has been sort of like cast aside.Taylor Owen16:25-17:39Exactly. Let's touch on that. But I do think what you described as the online harms piece of this governance agenda. When you look at what the EU has done, they have put in place the various building blocks for what a broad digital governance agenda might look like. Because the reality of this space, which we talked about last time, and it's the thing that's infuriating about digital policy, is that you can't do one thing. There's no – digital economy and our digital lives are so vast and the incentives and the effect they have on society is so broad that there's no one solution. So anyone who tells you fix privacy policy and you'll fix all the digital problems we just talked about are full of it. Anyone who says competition policy, like break up the companies, will solve all of these problems. is wrong, right? Anyone who says online harms policy, which we'll talk about, fixes everything is wrong. You have to do all of them. And Europe has, right? They updated their privacy policy. They've been to build a big online harms agenda. They updated their competition regime. And they're also doing some AI policy too, right? So like you need comprehensive approaches, which is not an easy thing to do, right? It means doing three big things all over.Nate Erskine-Smith17:39-17:41Especially minority parlance, short periods of time, legislatively.Taylor Owen17:41-18:20Different countries have taken different pieces of it. Now, on the online harms piece, which is what the previous government took really seriously, and I think it's worth putting a point on that, right, that when we talked last was the beginning of this process. After we spoke, there was a national expert panel. There were 20 consultations. There were four citizens' assemblies. There was a national commission, right? Like a lot of work went into looking at what every other country had done because this is a really wicked, difficult problem and trying to learn from what Europe, Australia and the UK had all done. And we kind of taking the benefit of being late, right? So they were all ahead of us.Taylor18:21-18:25People you work with on that grant committee. We're all quick and do our own consultations.Taylor Owen18:26-19:40Exactly. And like the model that was developed out of that, I think, was the best model of any of those countries. And it's now seen as internationally, interestingly, as the new sort of milestone that everybody else is building on, right? And what it does is it says if you're going to launch a digital product, right, like a consumer-facing product in Canada, you need to assess risk. And you need to assess risk on these broad categories of harms that we have decided as legislators we care about or you've decided as legislators you cared about, right? Child safety, child sexual abuse material, fomenting violence and extremist content, right? Like things that are like broad categories that we've said are we think are harmful to our democracy. All you have to do as a company is a broad assessment of what could go wrong with your product. If you find something could go wrong, so let's say, for example, let's use a tangible example. Let's say you are a social media platform and you are launching a product that's going to be used by kids and it allows adults to contact kids without parental consent or without kids opting into being a friend. What could go wrong with that?Nate Erskine-Smith19:40-19:40Yeah.Taylor19:40-19:43Like what could go wrong? Yeah, a lot could go wrong.Taylor Owen19:43-20:27And maybe strange men will approach teenage girls. Maybe, right? Like if you do a risk assessment, that is something you might find. You would then be obligated to mitigate that risk and show how you've mitigated it, right? Like you put in a policy in place to show how you're mitigating it. And then you have to share data about how these tools are used so that we can monitor, publics and researchers can monitor whether that mitigation strategy worked. That's it. In that case, that feature was launched by Instagram in Canada without any risk assessment, without any safety evaluation. And we know there was like a widespread problem of teenage girls being harassed by strange older men.Taylor20:28-20:29Incredibly creepy.Taylor Owen20:29-20:37A very easy, but not like a super illegal thing, not something that would be caught by the criminal code, but a harm we can all admit is a problem.Taylor20:37-20:41And this kind of mechanism would have just filtered out.Taylor Owen20:41-20:51Default settings, right? And doing thinking a bit before you launch a product in a country about what kind of broad risks might emerge when it's launched and being held accountable to do it for doing that.Nate Erskine-Smith20:52-21:05Yeah, I quite like the we I mean, maybe you've got a better read of this, but in the UK, California has pursued this. I was looking at recently, Elizabeth Denham is now the Jersey Information Commissioner or something like that.Taylor Owen21:05-21:06I know it's just yeah.Nate Erskine-Smith21:07-21:57I don't random. I don't know. But she is a Canadian, for those who don't know Elizabeth Denham. And she was the information commissioner in the UK. And she oversaw the implementation of the first age-appropriate design code. That always struck me as an incredibly useful approach. In that even outside of social media platforms, even outside of AI, take a product like Roblox, where tons of kids use it. And just forcing companies to ensure that the default settings are prioritizing child safety so that you don't put the onus on parents and kids to figure out each of these different games and platforms. In a previous world of consumer protection, offline, it would have been de facto. Of course we've prioritized consumer safety first and foremost. But in the online world, it's like an afterthought.Taylor Owen21:58-24:25Well, when you say consumer safety, it's worth like referring back to what we mean. Like a duty of care can seem like an obscure concept. But your lawyer is a real thing, right? Like you walk into a store. I walk into your office. I have an expectation that the bookshelves aren't going to fall off the wall and kill me, right? And you have to bolt them into the wall because of that, right? Like that is a duty of care that you have for me when I walk into your public space or private space. Like that's all we're talking about here. And the age-appropriate design code, yes, like sort of developed, implemented by a Canadian in the UK. And what it says, it also was embedded in the Online Harms Act, right? If we'd passed that last year, we would be implementing an age-appropriate design code as we speak, right? What that would say is any product that is likely to be used by a kid needs to do a set of additional things, not just these risk assessments, right? But we think like kids don't have the same rights as adults. We have different duties to protect kids as adults, right? So maybe they should do an extra set of things for their digital products. And it includes things like no behavioral targeting, no advertising, no data collection, no sexual adult content, right? Like kind of things that like – Seem obvious. And if you're now a child in the UK and you open – you go on a digital product, you are safer because you have an age-appropriate design code governing your experience online. Canadian kids don't have that because that bill didn't pass, right? So like there's consequences to this stuff. and I get really frustrated now when I see the conversation sort of pivoting to AI for example right like all we're supposed to care about is AI adoption and all the amazing things AI is going to do to transform our world which are probably real right like not discounting its power and just move on from all of these both problems and solutions that have been developed to a set of challenges that both still exist on social platforms like they haven't gone away people are still using these tools and the harms still exist and probably are applicable to this next set of technologies as well. So this moving on from what we've learned and the work that's been done is just to the people working in this space and like the wide stakeholders in this country who care about this stuff and working on it. It just, it feels like you say deja vu at the beginning and it is deja vu, but it's kind of worse, right? Cause it's like deja vu and then ignoring theTaylor24:25-24:29five years of work. Yeah, deja vu if we were doing it again. Right. We're not even, we're not evenTaylor Owen24:29-24:41Well, yeah. I mean, hopefully I actually am not, I'm actually optimistic, I would say that we will, because I actually think of if for a few reasons, like one, citizens want it, right? Like.Nate Erskine-Smith24:41-24:57Yeah, I was surprised on the, so you mentioned there that the rules that we design, the risk assessment framework really applied to social media could equally be applied to deliver AI safety and it could be applied to new technology in a useful way.Taylor Owen24:58-24:58Some elements of it. Exactly.Nate Erskine-Smith24:58-25:25I think AI safety is a broad bucket of things. So let's get to that a little bit because I want to pull the pieces together. So I had a constituent come in the office and he is really like super mad. He's super mad. Why is he mad? Does that happen very often? Do people be mad when they walk into this office? Not as often as you think, to be honest. Not as often as you think. And he's mad because he believes Mark Carney ripped him off.Taylor Owen25:25-25:25Okay.Nate Erskine-Smith25:25-26:36Okay. Yep. He believes Mark Carney ripped him off, not with broken promise in politics, not because he said one thing and is delivering something else, nothing to do with politics. He saw a video online, Mark Carney told him to invest money. He invested money and he's out the 200 bucks or whatever it was. And I was like, how could you possibly have lost money in this way? This is like, this was obviously a scam. Like what, how could you have been deceived? But then I go and I watched the video And it is, okay, I'm not gonna send the 200 bucks and I've grown up with the internet, but I can see how- Absolutely. In the same way, phone scams and Nigerian princes and all of that have their own success rate. I mean, this was a very believable video that was obviously AI generated. So we are going to see rampant fraud. If we aren't already, we are going to see many challenges with respect to AI safety. What over and above the risk assessment piece, what do we do to address these challenges?Taylor Owen26:37-27:04So that is a huge problem, right? Like the AI fraud, AI video fraud is a huge challenge. In the election, when we were monitoring the last election, by far the biggest problem or vulnerability of the election was a AI generated video campaign. that every day would take videos of Polyevs and Carney's speeches from the day before and generate, like morph them into conversations about investment strategies.Taylor27:05-27:07And it was driving people to a crypto scam.Taylor Owen27:08-27:11But it was torquing the political discourse.Taylor27:11-27:11That's what it must have been.Taylor Owen27:12-27:33I mean, there's other cases of this, but that's probably, and it was running rampant on particularly meta platforms. They were flagged. They did nothing about it. There were thousands of these videos circulating throughout the entire election, right? And it's not like the end of the world, right? Like nobody – but it torqued our political debate. It ripped off some people. And these kinds of scams are –Taylor27:33-27:38It's clearly illegal. It's clearly illegal. It probably breaks his election law too, misrepresenting a political figure, right?Taylor Owen27:38-27:54So I think there's probably an Elections Canada response to this that's needed. And it's fraud. And it's fraud, absolutely. So what do you do about that, right? And the head of the Canadian Banking Association said there's like billions of dollars in AI-based fraud in the Canadian economy right now. Right? So it's a big problem.Taylor27:54-27:55Yeah.Taylor Owen27:55-28:46I actually think there's like a very tangible policy solution. You put these consumer-facing AI products into the Online Harms Act framework, right? And then you add fraud and AI scams as a category of harm. And all of a sudden, if you're meta and you are operating in Canada during an election, you'd have to do a risk assessment on like AI fraud potential of your product. Responsibility for your platform. And then it starts to circulate. We would see it. They'd be called out on it. They'd have to take it down. And like that's that, right? Like so that we have mechanisms for dealing with this. But it does mean evolving what we worked on over the past five years, these like only harms risk assessment models and bringing in some of the consumer facing AI, both products and related harms into the framework.Nate Erskine-Smith28:47-30:18To put it a different way, I mean, so this is years ago now that we had this, you know, grand committee in the UK holding Facebook and others accountable. This really was creating the wake of the Cambridge Analytica scandal. And the platforms at the time were really holding firm to this idea of Section 230 and avoiding host liability and saying, oh, we couldn't possibly be responsible for everything on our platform. And there was one problem with that argument, which is they completely acknowledged the need for them to take action when it came to child pornography. And so they said, yeah, well, you know, no liability for us. But of course, there can be liability on this one specific piece of content and we'll take action on this one specific piece of content. And it always struck me from there on out. I mean, there's no real intellectual consistency here. It's more just what should be in that category of things that they should take responsibility for. And obviously harmful content like that should be – that's an obvious first step but obvious for everyone. But there are other categories. Fraud is another one. When they're making so much money, when they are investing so much money in AI, when they're ignoring privacy protections and everything else throughout the years, I mean, we can't leave it up to them. And setting a clear set of rules to say this is what you're responsible for and expanding that responsibility seems to make a good amount of sense.Taylor Owen30:18-30:28It does, although I think those responsibilities need to be different for different kinds of harms. Because there are different speech implications and apocratic implications of sort of absolute solutions to different kinds of content.Taylor30:28-30:30So like child pornography is a great example.Taylor Owen30:30-31:44In the Online Harms Bill Act, for almost every type of content, it was that risk assessment model. But there was a carve out for child sexual abuse material. So including child pornography. And for intimate images and videos shared without consent. It said the platforms actually have a different obligation, and that's to take it down within 24 hours. And the reason you can do it with those two kinds of content is because if we, one, the AI is actually pretty good at spotting it. It might surprise you, but there's a lot of naked images on the internet that we can train AI with. So we're actually pretty good at using AI to pull this stuff down. But the bigger one is that we are, I think, as a society, it's okay to be wrong in the gray area of that speech, right? Like if something is like debatable, whether it's child pornography, I'm actually okay with us suppressing the speech of the person who sits in that gray area. Whereas for something like hate speech, it's a really different story, right? Like we do not want to suppress and over index for that gray area on hate speech because that's going to capture a lot of reasonable debate that we probably want.Nate Erskine-Smith31:44-31:55Yeah, I think soliciting investment via fraud probably falls more in line with the child pornography category where it's, you know, very obviously illegal.Taylor Owen31:55-32:02And that mechanism is like a takedown mechanism, right? Like if we see fraud, if we know it's fraud, then you take it down, right? Some of these other things we have to go with.Nate Erskine-Smith32:02-32:24I mean, my last question really is you pull the threads together. You've got these different pieces that were introduced in the past. And you've got a government that lots of similar folks around the table, but a new government and a new prime minister certainly with a vision for getting the most out of AI when it comes to our economy.Taylor32:24-32:25Absolutely.Nate Erskine-Smith32:25-33:04You have, for the first time in this country, an AI minister, a junior minister to industry, but still a specific title portfolio and with his own deputy minister and really wants to be seized with this. And in a way, I think that from every conversation I've had with him that wants to maximize productivity in this country using AI, but is also cognizant of the risks and wants to address AI safety. So where from here? You know, you've talked in the past about sort of a grander sort of tech accountability and sovereignty act. Do we do piecemeal, you know, a privacy bill here and an AI safety bill and an online harms bill and we have disparate pieces? What's the answer here?Taylor Owen33:05-34:14I mean, I don't have the exact answer. But I think there's some like, there's some lessons from the past that we can, this government could take. And one is piecemeal bills that aren't centrally coordinated or have no sort of connectivity between them end up with piecemeal solutions that are imperfect and like would benefit from some cohesiveness between them, right? So when the previous government released ADA, the AI Act, it was like really intention in some real ways with the online harms approach. So two different departments issuing two similar bills on two separate technologies, not really talking to each other as far as I can tell from the outside, right? So like we need a coordinating, coordinated, comprehensive effort to digital governance. Like that's point one and we've never had it in this country. And when I saw the announcement of an AI minister, my mind went first to that he or that office could be that role. Like you could – because AI is – it's cross-cutting, right? Like every department in our federal government touches AI in one way or another. And the governance of AI and the adoption on the other side of AI by society is going to affect every department and every bill we need.Nate Erskine-Smith34:14-34:35So if Evan pulled in the privacy pieces that would help us catch up to GDPR. Which it sounds like they will, right? Some version of C27 will probably come back. If he pulls in the online harms pieces that aren't related to the criminal code and drops those provisions, says, you know, Sean Frazier, you can deal with this if you like. But these are the pieces I'm holding on to.Taylor Owen34:35-34:37With a frame of consumer safety, right?Nate Erskine-Smith34:37-34:37Exactly.Taylor Owen34:38-34:39If he wants...Nate Erskine-Smith34:39-34:54Which is connected to privacy as well, right? Like these are all... So then you have thematically a bill that makes sense. And then you can pull in as well the AI safety piece. And then it becomes a consumer protection bill when it comes to living our lives online. Yeah.Taylor Owen34:54-36:06And I think there's an argument whether that should be one bill or whether it's multiple ones. I actually don't think it... I think there's cases for both, right? There's concern about big omnibus bills that do too many things and too many committees reviewing them and whatever. that's sort of a machinery of government question right but but the principle that these should be tied together in a narrative that the government is explicit about making and communicating to publics right that if if you we know that 85 percent of canadians want ai to be regulated what do they mean what they mean is at the same time as they're being told by our government by companies that they should be using and embracing this powerful technology in their lives they're also seeing some risks. They're seeing risks to their kids. They're being told their jobs might disappear and might take their... Why should I use this thing? When I'm seeing some harms, I don't see you guys doing anything about these harms. And I'm seeing some potential real downside for me personally and my family. So even in the adoption frame, I think thinking about data privacy, safety, consumer safety, I think to me, that's the real frame here. It's like citizen safety, consumer safety using these products. Yeah, politically, I just, I mean, that is what it is. It makes sense to me.Nate Erskine-Smith36:06-36:25Right, I agree. And really lean into child safety at the same time. Because like I've got a nine-year-old and a five-year-old. They are growing up with the internet. And I do not want to have to police every single platform that they use. I do not want to have to log in and go, these are the default settings on the parental controls.Taylor36:25-36:28I want to turn to government and go, do your damn job.Taylor Owen36:28-36:48Or just like make them slightly safer. I know these are going to be imperfect. I have a 12-year-old. He spends a lot of time on YouTube. I know that's going to always be a place with sort of content that I would prefer he doesn't see. But I would just like some basic safety standards on that thing. So he's not seeing the worst of the worst.Nate Erskine-Smith36:48-36:58And we should expect that. Certainly at YouTube with its promotion engine, the recommendation function is not actively promoting terrible content to your 12 year old.Taylor Owen36:59-37:31Yeah. That's like de minimis. Can we just torque this a little bit, right? So like maybe he's not seeing content about horrible content about Charlie Kirk when he's a 12 year old on YouTube, right? Like, can we just do something? And I think that's a reasonable expectation as a citizen. But it requires governance. That will not – and that's – it's worth putting a real emphasis on that is one thing we've learned in this moment of repeated deja vus going back 20 years really since our experience with social media for sure through to now is that these companies don't self-govern.Taylor37:31-37:31Right.Taylor Owen37:32-37:39Like we just – we know that indisputably. So to think that AI is going to be different is delusional. No, it'll be pseudo-profit, not the public interest.Taylor37:39-37:44Of course. Because that's what we are. These are the largest companies in the world. Yeah, exactly. And AI companies are even bigger than the last generation, right?Taylor Owen37:44-38:00We're creating something new with the scale of these companies. And to think that their commercial incentives and their broader long-term goals of around AI are not going to override these safety concerns is just naive in the nth degree.Nate Erskine-Smith38:00-38:38But I think you make the right point, and it's useful to close on this, that these goals of realizing the productivity possibilities and potentials of AI alongside AI safety, these are not mutually exclusive or oppositional goals. that it's you create a sandbox to play in and companies will be more successful. And if you have certainty in regulations, companies will be more successful. And if people feel safe using these tools and having certainly, you know, if I feel safe with my kids learning these tools growing up in their classrooms and everything else, you're going to adoption rates will soar. Absolutely. And then we'll benefit.Taylor Owen38:38-38:43They work in tandem, right? And I think you can't have one without the other fundamentally.Nate Erskine-Smith38:45-38:49Well, I hope I don't invite you back five years from now when we have the same conversation.Taylor Owen38:49-38:58Well, I hope you invite me back in five years, but I hope it's like thinking back on all the legislative successes of the previous five years. I mean, that'll be the moment.Taylor38:58-38:59Sounds good. Thanks, David. Thanks. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

AI Daily Rundown: September 17th, 2025: Your daily briefing on the real world business impact of AIHello AI Unraveled listeners, and welcome to today's news where we cut through the hype to find the real-world business impact of AI.Listen at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ai-tech-daily-news-rundown-googles-protocol-for-ai/id1684415169?i=1000727264846Sources & Newsletter at https://enoumen.substack.com/p/ai-and-tech-daily-news-rundown-googlesToday's Headlines:

In this episode, we sit down with Ben Rosario, Head Coach and Executive Director of Hoka Northern Arizona Elite Team, aka Hoka NAZ Elite, to uncover how professional runners train—and how everyday runners can apply the same strategies. Ben shares why success isn't only about big workouts, but also about the fundamentals: getting enough sleep, fueling properly, and building strength without needing a fancy gym. He emphasizes the importance of stretching and mobility, as well as truly respecting easy days to allow the body to recover and adapt. Listeners will also learn how pros approach pacing and why managing effort can make the difference between struggle and breakthrough. No matter your age, background, or ability level, these simple yet powerful habits can help you run stronger, faster, and further. This episode shows that elite training principles aren't reserved for pros—they're tools that anyone can use to reach their goals. Learn more in the book he co-authored with Matt Fitzgerald, In their new book, Run Like a Pro (Even If You're Slow): Elite Tools and Tips for Runners at Every Level,  they help us understand that we can reach our potential if we include some of these training techniques and strategies. Janji, Use code TRAILRUNNER for 10% off Ketone IQ, Used by Tour de France champions—Ketone-IQ naturally boosts EPO, recovery, and endurance. Get 30% off your first subscription order Tifosi Optics 20% off with code TRN JAMBAR: 20% off with code TRN20 Get our new "1 > 0" technical running hat- THEY'RE on SALE!

Join Pastor Steven as he shares golden insights for your destiny fulfillment. 

Garry shares some names that might be in trouble in a death trilogy. Plus a serial butt sniffer has been arrested. 

Hi. People say “the government should run more like a business” all the time, but when you think about it, that's a pretty bad idea precisely because of how businesses work. Get the world's news at https://ground.news/SMN to compare coverage and see through biased coverage. Subscribe for 40% off unlimited access through our link.Hosted by Cody JohnstonExecutive Producer - Katy StollDirected by Will GordhWritten by Shawn Depasquale and Christopher Bell Produced by Jonathan HarrisEdited by Gregg MellerPost-Production Supervisor / Motion Graphics & VFX - John ConwayResearcher - Marco Siler-GonzalesGraphics by Clint DeNiscoHead Writer - David Christopher BellPATREON: https://patreon.com/somemorenewsMERCH: https://shop.somemorenews.comYOUTUBE MEMBERSHIP: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvlj0IzjSnNoduQF0l3VGng/join#somemorenews #jeffbezos #AmazonPluto TV. Stream Now. Pay Never.For a limited time get 40% off your first box PLUS get a free item in every box for life at https://Hungryroot.com/smn with code smn.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome back to the Summer Throwback Series! We're digging into the most powerful episodes from the past—and this one hit home for so many women. If you've ever felt like your days are just chaos on repeat, this episode is for you. It's filled with the exact strategies I used to stop the spinning plates and start building a life that runs smoothly—without burning out. Let's get into it. You're constantly running—managing kids, housework, work-work—and feeling like no matter how hard you try, everything is still falling through the cracks. In this episode, I'm sharing 3 practical strategies to help you calm the chaos, reduce the mental load, and make your day run like a well-oiled machine. xoxo, Chelsi Jo . . . . . . Get the free workbooks mentioned in this episode: Fundamental Needs Workbook → chelsijo.co/fundamentalneedsworkbook Time Blocking Workbook → chelsijo.co/timeblockingworkbook FREE on-demand training to teach you how to organize your business so you can get more done in less time – watch now! Watch the free Workflow Workshop here: chelsijo.co/workflowworkshop Not sure where to start? Take the quiz and find out which system you need most right now: chelsijo.co/quiz Want to go deeper and finally get lasting systems in place? Start here: → Systemize Your Life This is your all-in-one home management system. In just 4 weeks, you'll go from overwhelmed to organized with simple routines, time blocks, and structure that actually works—even if nothing else ever has. chelsijo.co/syl → Systemize to Scale If you're a work-from-home mom building a business or working to make an income, this is the 12-month group program you need to juggle both successfully. I'll walk you step-by-step through setting up every backend system in your home and your business—so you can grow consistently without sacrificing your family or yourself in the process. chelsijo.co/systemizetoscale Want daily support and a community of women doing this with you? Join us here: facebook.com/groups/systemizeyourlife

Run, Like it's already yourshttps://lifemotivationdaily.blogspot.com/

Catching up with Courtney McQueen, the co founder of Run Like a Girl. We chat why she started RLAG, her mission to unscare people, and how she has continued her active lifestyle as a mom. RLAG is " a community that strives to change lives and perspectives by creating opportunities for personal growth."  @runlikeagirl_ca Coaching, pics, and fun  @trailrunningwomenpod  For my personal trainign blog: Patreon!

On the Overthinking It Podcast, we tackle Brian Windhorst’s “Dark Cloud” speech and the public tragedy of Jayson Tatum's torn achilles tendon. Episode 880: Run Like the Wind, Horse originally appeared on Overthinking It, the site subjecting the popular culture to a level of scrutiny it probably doesn't deserve. [Latest Posts | Podcast (iTunes Link)]

Preacher: Jerry Chirwa Sermon: Run Like A King Date: 04/05/2025

Today's guest is David Roche—elite ultrarunner, 2024 Leadville 100 champion and course record holder, coach to some of the sport's top athletes, co-author of The Happy Runner, and co-founder of Some Work All Play with his brilliant wife Megan. But beyond the accolades, David is someone who radiates joy, purpose, and perspective—especially in a sport that can sometimes take itself way too seriously.We talk about why running doesn't have to “matter” to matter, how to set big scary goals without tying your worth to them, and why silliness and love might just be your best training plan. Whether you're toeing the line at your first 5K or dreaming of a hundred-miler, I promise—this episode will leave your heart a little fuller and your inner critic a little quieter.

Join William Wolfe in today's episode of the Center for Baptist Leadership Podcast, featuring Rhett Burns, Pastor of First Baptist Church. William & Rhett to discuss why the Southern Baptist Convention is declining in the number of churches and financial giving, how to regain trust through financial transparency, and the importance of Rhett's motion for an amendment to the financial plan.   Show Notes: https://sbctransparency.com/   Rhett began serving FBC Travelers Rest as senior pastor in July 2022. Prior to joining FBCTR, Rhett served as an associate pastor at a nearby church, and before that he and his family lived in Turkey, where he worked as a football coach, teacher, and freelance writer. He holds a Master of Divinity degree from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and is the author of two books: Run Like a Stallion: How American Football Explains Turkey and The New People Next Door: Learning to Love Your Cross-Cultural Neighbors.   Learn more about Pastor Rhett Burns' work: https://www.trfirst.org/rhett-burns   ––––––   Follow Center for Baptist Leadership across Social Media: X / Twitter – https://twitter.com/BaptistLeaders Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/people/Center-For-Baptist-Leadership/61556762144277/ Rumble – https://rumble.com/c/c-6157089 YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@CenterforBaptistLeadership Website – https://centerforbaptistleadership.org/   To book William for media appearances or speaking engagements, please contact him at media@centerfor­baptistleadership.org.   Follow Us on Twitter: William Wolfe - https://twitter.com/William_E_Wolfe Richard Henry - https://twitter.com/RThenry83   Renew the SBC from within and defend the SBC from those who seek its destruction, donate today: https://centerforbaptistleadership.org/donate/   The Center for Baptist Leadership Podcast is powered by American Reformer, recorded remotely in the United States by William Wolfe, and edited by Jared Cummings.   Subscribe to the Center for Baptist Leadership Podcast: Distribute our RSS Feed – https://centerforbaptistleadership.podbean.com/ Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/center-for-baptist-leadership/id1743074575 Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/0npXohTYKWYmWLsHkalF9t Amazon Music // Audible – https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9ababbdd-6c6b-4ab9-b21a-eed951e1e67b BoomPlay – https://www.boomplaymusic.com/podcasts/96624 TuneIn – Coming Soon iHeartRadio – https://iheart.com/podcast/170321203 Listen Notes – https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/center-for-baptist-leadership-center-for-3liUZaE_Tnq/ Pandora – Coming Soon PlayerFM – https://player.fm/series/3570081 Podchaser – https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/the-center-for-baptist-leaders-5696654 YouTube Podcasts – https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFMvfuzJKMICA7wi3CXvQxdNtA_lqDFV

Sam Altman didn't want to be the subject of a biography, suggesting the AI revolution is about more than one person, says Keach Hagey, a Wall Street Journal reporter and author of “The Optimist.” But on this episode, host and Vanity Fair editor-in-chief Radhika Jones, along with executive editor Claire Howorth and Hive editor Michael Calderone, go deep on the man himself, speaking with Hagey about Altman's progressive politics, friendship with Peter Thiel, feud with Elon Musk, and dealings with Donald Trump, along with his brief exit from OpenAI—aka “The Blip”—and vision for this potentially world-altering technology.  Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices

In Part 2 of our explosive series, a former Mormon missionary blows the whistle on the business strategies employed by mission presidents to boost convert baptisms. This episode uncovers the corporate-style tactics used within the LDS Church, revealing how mission presidents prioritize numbers over genuine spiritual growth. Through insider accounts, expert analysis, and a deep dive into the intersection of religion and business, we expose the manipulative practices driving the church's growth agenda.Business Models in Missions: Learn how mission presidents use sales techniques, quotas, and performance metrics to pressure missionaries into achieving higher baptism numbers. Former Missionary Testimony: Hear a firsthand account from a whistleblower who witnessed these strategies in action and grappled with the ethical dilemmas they faced. The Cost of Conversion: Understand the psychological and emotional toll on both missionaries and converts when faith is reduced to a business transaction.Why Listen? Discover the hidden parallels between high-demand religion and corporate culture. Recognize the signs of coercive control and manipulation in religious settings. Equip yourself with knowledge to heal from or protect against exploitative practices.Tags: LDS Church, Mormon Missionaries, Mission President Tactics, Convert Baptisms, Religious Business Strategies, Narcissism, Healing from Abuse, True Crime, Cult Tactics, Religious Manipulation, High-Demand Religion, Coercive Control, Spiritual Abuse, Cult Psychology, Mormon Whistleblower Follow Jonathan on IG: @awakening_expansion Find more about Jonathan here!Link to Jonathan

Got feedback about this episode? Send Carolyn a textIf you've been around the world of distance running for any length of time, you've probably heard the name Ben Rosario. He's done just about everything in the running industry—from professional runner and run specialty store owner to race director and Olympic-level coach.Ben spent nearly a decade as the head coach and executive director of NAZ Elite in Flagstaff, AZ, where he guided professional athletes to national titles, World Championship appearances, and an Olympic Trials Marathon victory. Now, as the Co-Founder & CEO of The Marathon Project, he's creating a world-class racing opportunity for athletes who are fast—but not necessarily pro. And if you're an everyday runner, you might also know him as the co-author of Run Like a Pro (Even If You're Slow), where he shares training principles anyone can apply to improve their running.In this conversation, we discuss why Ben felt the need to bring The Marathon Project back, what sets it apart from other races, and where he sees it going in the future. An entrepreneur at heart, Ben has been the mastermind behind some of running's most exciting projects, and we dive into the lessons he's learned from each venture.Connect with Ben:Instagram: @marathonprojWebsite: themarathonproject.comBook: Run Like a Pro (Even If You're Slow)Matt Fitzgerald's book about training with Ben/NAZ Elite: Running the DreamConnect with Carolyn:Instagram: @inspiredsolescast or @carolyn.c.coffinYou can help spread the running love! The best way to SUPPORT Inspired Soles is to share your favourite episode(s) with friends, subscribe, or leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. Connect on Instagram @inspiredsolescast or email guest ideas to inspiredsolescast@gmail.com.

The Red House was a children's home in Norfolk which took in hundreds of students in care from across the UK between 1984 and 1998.   It was run by a controversial Danish group called Tvind, operating an unconventional education system - most students from the Red House left without any qualifications. Now, over 40 former pupils have come forward with allegations of physical and sexual abuse they say they faced at the home.   On the Sky News Daily, Niall Paterson speaks to correspondent Alice Porter about what has been uncovered, as she travelled to Denmark to track down the organisation behind the Red House and investigate claims it is a cult. And we hear from victims about the alleged abuse faced by students.  Producer: Soila Apparicio Editor: Philly Beaumont

SEGMENT - Arcand reacts to Bert Breer saying that the Patriots are lightyears behind other organizations and are rather "archaic"

Ben Rosario is a leading figure in distance running, known for his work with Northern Arizona Elite, The Marathon Project, and his book Run Like a Pro (Even If You're Slow). As the head coach of NAZ Elite, he developed one of the premier training groups in the U.S., coaching athletes like Aliphine Tuliamuk to a U.S. Olympic Trials win. In 2020, he played a key role in launching The Marathon Project, creating a fast, competitive race for elite marathoners during the pandemic. With a passion for coaching and a knack for innovation, Ben has made a lasting impact on the sport.---

Sabrina Little is an author, ultramarathoner, and a professor of philosophy. Her latest book, “The Examined Run” is suitable not only for competitive athletes, but for anyone who wants to:  Strengthen his body, discipline his mind, learn the basics of philosophy, and, most importantly, cultivate long-lasting virtues. In this episode, Sabrina and I discuss: Ancient Greek Philosophy; Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle; How a strong BODY makes for a strong MIND; Admiration v. Imitation v. Emulation; Envy: Benign and Malign; iPhones and Idle Voyeurism; Mindfulness; Virtues and Vices; Acts and Habits; The formation of good habits; The development of a good character; Thomas Aquinas; Happiness; The Three Models of Happiness; Physical fitness and BEAUTY; Life as a Professor; Academia in America; The Liberal Arts; And MUCH more! I hope that you enjoy this episode. Links to Sabrina's content: Instagram: Sabrina B LittleWebsite: https://sabrinalittle.com/Book: “The Examined Run”: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-examined-run-9780197678695?cc=us&lang=en&***Links to my content: Instagram, on which I post shorts from this and prior episodes: @danielethanfinneran https://www.instagram.com/danielethanfinneran/X: @DanielEFinneranMessage me on X, or send an email to daniel.ethan.finneran@gmail.com (especially if you have someone whom I can interview in mind!) My sister project, PNEUMA, on which I put out sleep stories, meditations, and mindfulness content. Search “Pneuma meditations” on any podcast streaming platform. If you enjoy these conversations, please share them with family and friends. Thank you. 

Season 24 Episode #8 Ben Hestley and Shaun J BoyceToday, we've invited Ben Hesley to our studio, where he'll share some pro tips to improve your off-court conditioning for tennis. Ben is from Bull Shark Sports and has years of tennis experience. In today's episode, he'll share some unique tips that many pro-level tennis players overlook that can significantly determine the difference between your victory and defeat.What This Short Session IncludesWhy Long-Distance Running Might Not Be Best for Tennis: Long-distance running utilizes a different part of the cardiovascular system than tennis needs, Ben explains. Tennis takes bursts of energy, not endurance runs.Better Conditioning for Tennis: Instead of long distance running, Ben suggests doing interval training. That means sprinting short distances (20-50 yards or so) and walking or jogging the same distance or amount of time. This is closer to the experience of a tennis match.How to Use Intervals in Your Training: Ben has straightforward advice on how to time your runs. You can sprint for 10-20 seconds, then walk or jog for the same duration. This will be developing the right kind of fitness for tennis.Get Tennis-Ready Fitness: By this type of training, you will be in better condition to play tennis. Developing greater stamina will boost your performance in games.Be Our Next GuestLike Ben Hesley, you can also be our next guest and let the tennis community know your unique trick. Visit the My Tennis Story page and let us know your words that reveal the story that might inspire the tennis community or help them to sharpen their smashing skills against their opponents. If we find your story resonates with our tennis community, we'll invite you to one of our next episodes as our new guest.USPTA Certified Tennis Professional Ben Hestley of Bull Shark Sports: https://bullsharksports.net/about-coach-benShaun Boyce USPTA: shaun@tennisforchildren.comhttps://tennisforchildren.com/ Bobby Schindler USPTA: schindlerb@comcast.nethttps://windermerecommunity.net/ Geovanna Boyce: geovy@regeovinate.comhttps://regeovinate.com/ This podcast is powered by Signature Tennis....

A kid's theater experience gets ruined by sickness, a Dumb Dad ruins his chances in a board game and Kevin continues to ruin his body. Evan comes with a double dummy whammy this week and also a Dumb Dad user submission! The Dumb Dads are going back on tour starting with DC, Philly, NYC, Boston and Pittsburgh! Check our Linktree for updated dates and tickets - https://linktr.ee/TheDumbDads If you want to send us your Dumb Parenting Submission, you can email us at DumbDadPod@gmail.com or send it by postal mail to The Dumb Dads, 17216 Saticoy St #678, Van Nuys, CA 91406. The Dumb Dad podcast is also on Youtube. Subscribe here! For more Dumb Dad Pod, follow us on social – https://bit.ly/3t6tE9M We've got DUMB DAD MERCH!  And we're on CAMEO! We'd love to send a message to a dad (or anybody) in your life who needs a Dumb Dad pick-me-up! CHEAT CODES – BETONLINE – Use our Promo Code: BLEAV to receive your 50% Welcome Bonus on your first deposit. Thanks to Chris Verdú for our show music! Check out Verdú on SoundCloud! And thanks to editor, Annie Laferriere. Check her out on instagram!

Ben Berman Ghan is the author of the bestselling novel, The Years Shall Run Like Rabbits (Wolsak & Wynn, 2024). The Years Shall Run Like Rabbits is a gorgeously complex work of literary speculative fiction. With elements of science fiction and horror dropped in amongst stunning literary prose, the debut novel spans centuries, covering humanity's colonization of the moon, a war with alien beings, AI minds governing Canada, and a giant spacefaring whale. The book is centred around Toronto and shows a version of a Canadian future that will amaze and stun readers, while raising important questions about the ethics and power of AI, humanity's claim to space, and the systematic destruction of our current planet. More About The Years Shall Run Like Rabbits: A gorgeously complex work of literary speculative fiction that spans centuries The Years Shall Run Like Rabbits starts in 2014 with a winged alien sowing the seeds of a strange forest on the moon. The novel then moves through humanity's colonization of the moon and its consequences, onto a war with alien beings within a spacefaring whale, a cyborg mind that sleeps for hundreds of years after sheltering the city of Toronto from the worst of the war and finally a recreation of humanity. Ghan poses thoughtful questions about artificial intelligence, humanity's quest for the stars and ecological destruction in this wide-ranging story, which is held together equally by beautiful writing and deft characterization. The end result is an ambitious debut that leaves the reader contemplating many amazing possibilities for the future of our world. More About Ben: Ben Berman Ghan is a writer and editor from Toronto, Canada, whose prose and poetry have been published in Clarkesworld magazine, Strange Horizons, the Blasted Tree Publishing Co., the /tƐmz/ Review and others. His previous works include the short story collection What We See in the Smoke. He now lives and writes in Calgary, Alberta, where he is a Ph.D. student in English literature at the University of Calgary. About Hollay Ghadery: Hollay Ghadery is an Iranian-Canadian multi-genre writer living in Ontario on Anishinaabe land. She has her MFA in Creative Writing from the University of Guelph. Fuse, her memoir of mixed-race identity and mental health, was released by Guernica Editions in 2021 and won the 2023 Canadian Bookclub Award for Nonfiction/Memoir. Her collection of poetry, Rebellion Box was released by Radiant Press in 2023, and her collection of short fiction, Widow Fantasies, was released with Gordon Hill Press in fall 2024. Her debut novel, The Unraveling of Ou, is due out with Palimpsest Press in 2026, and her children's book, Being with the Birds, with Guernica Editions in 2027. Hollay is the host of the 105.5 FM Bookclub, as well as a co-host on HOWL on CIUT 89.5 FM. She is also a book publicist, the Regional Chair of the League of Canadian Poets and a co-chair of the League's BIPOC committee, as well as the Poet Laureate of Scugog Township. Learn more about Hollay at www.hollayghadery.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Ben Berman Ghan is the author of the bestselling novel, The Years Shall Run Like Rabbits (Wolsak & Wynn, 2024). The Years Shall Run Like Rabbits is a gorgeously complex work of literary speculative fiction. With elements of science fiction and horror dropped in amongst stunning literary prose, the debut novel spans centuries, covering humanity's colonization of the moon, a war with alien beings, AI minds governing Canada, and a giant spacefaring whale. The book is centred around Toronto and shows a version of a Canadian future that will amaze and stun readers, while raising important questions about the ethics and power of AI, humanity's claim to space, and the systematic destruction of our current planet. More About The Years Shall Run Like Rabbits: A gorgeously complex work of literary speculative fiction that spans centuries The Years Shall Run Like Rabbits starts in 2014 with a winged alien sowing the seeds of a strange forest on the moon. The novel then moves through humanity's colonization of the moon and its consequences, onto a war with alien beings within a spacefaring whale, a cyborg mind that sleeps for hundreds of years after sheltering the city of Toronto from the worst of the war and finally a recreation of humanity. Ghan poses thoughtful questions about artificial intelligence, humanity's quest for the stars and ecological destruction in this wide-ranging story, which is held together equally by beautiful writing and deft characterization. The end result is an ambitious debut that leaves the reader contemplating many amazing possibilities for the future of our world. More About Ben: Ben Berman Ghan is a writer and editor from Toronto, Canada, whose prose and poetry have been published in Clarkesworld magazine, Strange Horizons, the Blasted Tree Publishing Co., the /tƐmz/ Review and others. His previous works include the short story collection What We See in the Smoke. He now lives and writes in Calgary, Alberta, where he is a Ph.D. student in English literature at the University of Calgary. About Hollay Ghadery: Hollay Ghadery is an Iranian-Canadian multi-genre writer living in Ontario on Anishinaabe land. She has her MFA in Creative Writing from the University of Guelph. Fuse, her memoir of mixed-race identity and mental health, was released by Guernica Editions in 2021 and won the 2023 Canadian Bookclub Award for Nonfiction/Memoir. Her collection of poetry, Rebellion Box was released by Radiant Press in 2023, and her collection of short fiction, Widow Fantasies, was released with Gordon Hill Press in fall 2024. Her debut novel, The Unraveling of Ou, is due out with Palimpsest Press in 2026, and her children's book, Being with the Birds, with Guernica Editions in 2027. Hollay is the host of the 105.5 FM Bookclub, as well as a co-host on HOWL on CIUT 89.5 FM. She is also a book publicist, the Regional Chair of the League of Canadian Poets and a co-chair of the League's BIPOC committee, as well as the Poet Laureate of Scugog Township. Learn more about Hollay at www.hollayghadery.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/science-fiction

Ben Berman Ghan is the author of the bestselling novel, The Years Shall Run Like Rabbits (Wolsak & Wynn, 2024). The Years Shall Run Like Rabbits is a gorgeously complex work of literary speculative fiction. With elements of science fiction and horror dropped in amongst stunning literary prose, the debut novel spans centuries, covering humanity's colonization of the moon, a war with alien beings, AI minds governing Canada, and a giant spacefaring whale. The book is centred around Toronto and shows a version of a Canadian future that will amaze and stun readers, while raising important questions about the ethics and power of AI, humanity's claim to space, and the systematic destruction of our current planet. More About The Years Shall Run Like Rabbits: A gorgeously complex work of literary speculative fiction that spans centuries The Years Shall Run Like Rabbits starts in 2014 with a winged alien sowing the seeds of a strange forest on the moon. The novel then moves through humanity's colonization of the moon and its consequences, onto a war with alien beings within a spacefaring whale, a cyborg mind that sleeps for hundreds of years after sheltering the city of Toronto from the worst of the war and finally a recreation of humanity. Ghan poses thoughtful questions about artificial intelligence, humanity's quest for the stars and ecological destruction in this wide-ranging story, which is held together equally by beautiful writing and deft characterization. The end result is an ambitious debut that leaves the reader contemplating many amazing possibilities for the future of our world. More About Ben: Ben Berman Ghan is a writer and editor from Toronto, Canada, whose prose and poetry have been published in Clarkesworld magazine, Strange Horizons, the Blasted Tree Publishing Co., the /tƐmz/ Review and others. His previous works include the short story collection What We See in the Smoke. He now lives and writes in Calgary, Alberta, where he is a Ph.D. student in English literature at the University of Calgary. About Hollay Ghadery: Hollay Ghadery is an Iranian-Canadian multi-genre writer living in Ontario on Anishinaabe land. She has her MFA in Creative Writing from the University of Guelph. Fuse, her memoir of mixed-race identity and mental health, was released by Guernica Editions in 2021 and won the 2023 Canadian Bookclub Award for Nonfiction/Memoir. Her collection of poetry, Rebellion Box was released by Radiant Press in 2023, and her collection of short fiction, Widow Fantasies, was released with Gordon Hill Press in fall 2024. Her debut novel, The Unraveling of Ou, is due out with Palimpsest Press in 2026, and her children's book, Being with the Birds, with Guernica Editions in 2027. Hollay is the host of the 105.5 FM Bookclub, as well as a co-host on HOWL on CIUT 89.5 FM. She is also a book publicist, the Regional Chair of the League of Canadian Poets and a co-chair of the League's BIPOC committee, as well as the Poet Laureate of Scugog Township. Learn more about Hollay at www.hollayghadery.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literature

It's Day 5! You've made it! Woohoo!Today is the most important day of the whole challenge, because today we are putting it all together. You deserve to get stronger and to take this time for YOU! DAY 5: THE BIG PICTUREThis week, you've already accomplished a lot! You've discovered that in order to run better you have to move with intention, which includes movement quality, movement control, and intentional running.But like I mentioned at the start of the week, moving with intention is just the first piece of the puzzle.If you want to run stronger after 40, there's two more pieces we still need to talk about. Even if you have missed some of the days so far, be sure to join us LIVE today, so that you can get the blueprint and see how all 3 pieces fit together to help you become the strongest and healthiest version of YOU, no matter your age or current fitness level!Because, as you've seen this week, it's not just about how much you're doing; it's about HOW you're doing it and how committed you are to the process.Running is a practice; you can keep getting better if you do things intentionally. ACTION ITEM:Meet yourself where you are. Use today to catch up on an action item this week that you haven't done yet.If you're all caught up, pick one of the days to repeat. If you had a hard time performing the strength test on Wednesday, modify it—use a higher chair or use your arms to help you to do the single sit to stand until you can do 3 sets of 10 on each leg. If you have pain or are unable to do it with one leg, use 2 legs to stand up and try using just 1 leg to lower back down.I want you to see that anything is possible when you do it with intention and move forward with a PLAN and modifications that work for YOU!Fill out these quick questions to help you move forward with intention! Thanks for Listening!!Be sure to hit FOLLOW on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one! Grab your free Strength Guide for Runners here. Interested in our coaching program? Check out our coaching options here. Grab your free copy of the Running Snapshot by clicking here. Come find us on Instagram and say hi! Don't forget: The information on this website is not intended to treat or diagnose any medical condition or to provide medical advice. It is intended for general education in the areas of health and wellness. All information contained in this site is intended to be educational in nature. Nothing should be considered medical advice for your specific situation.

Thanks for Listening!!Be sure to hit FOLLOW on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one! Grab your free Strength Guide for Runners here. Interested in our coaching program? Check out our coaching options here. Grab your free copy of the Running Snapshot by clicking here. Come find us on Instagram and say hi! Don't forget: The information on this website is not intended to treat or diagnose any medical condition or to provide medical advice. It is intended for general education in the areas of health and wellness. All information contained in this site is intended to be educational in nature. Nothing should be considered medical advice for your specific situation.

DAY 3: INCREASE MOVEMENT CONTROLYesterday we talked about the different types of mobility, and how both quantity and quality of movement matter.Today we are taking that one step further. A big piece of movement quality is your ability to control your body through the entire range of movement in any activity.That requires strength.But not just brute force strength. Squatting 300 lb won't automatically make you a better runner. It's about your ability to control your movement under any given load throughout the full range of movement.If you can't do that, your tissues and joints get overstressed, and you're more likely to end up injured.Today is all about finding our physical weak spots so we can run faster and longer without pain. As a runner, you need to strength train.  Period.  How often and how much varies from runner to runner, but there are some critical pieces that every runner must include in their training (because there are different types of strength and movement control needed for running!).  ACTION ITEMS - PERFORM THE FOLLOWING TESTS:Cross Sit to Stand Test: Sit on the floor with your legs crossed (criss cross applesauce). Note which leg is in front. Stand up without using your hands. With your legs crossed the same way (with same leg in front), slowly sit back down onto the floor. Uncross your legs and repeat the test with the other leg in front. Click here to see a video.Single Leg Sit to Stand Test: Sit in a chair of normal height so that your knees are bent to about 90 degrees. Stand up from the chair using only one leg (and no hands!).  See how many repetitions you can do on each leg (max 30).  Click here to see a video.For both tests, notice how you felt. Was it hard or easy? Was one side better than the other? Did you have any pain or discomfort? Was it easier to stand up or sit back down?   Thanks for Listening!!Be sure to hit FOLLOW on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one! Grab your free Strength Guide for Runners here. Interested in our coaching program? Check out our coaching options here. Grab your free copy of the Running Snapshot by clicking here. Come find us on Instagram and say hi! Don't forget: The information on this website is not intended to treat or diagnose any medical condition or to provide medical advice. It is intended for general education in the areas of health and wellness. All information contained in this site is intended to be educational in nature. Nothing should be considered medical advice for your specific situation.

It's Day 2!  Just the fact that you are here means that you are an ACTION TAKER, and if there's anything I know from all my years of coaching - Action Takers get results! Just showing up and being willing to try something new is the best first step to achieve anything in your life.  Remember: Strong over skinny. Building over losing. DAY 2:  IMPROVE MOVEMENT QUALITYAs runners, it's easy to get caught up in the quantity game…what distance are you running? What's your pace? What race are you training for? Let's face it - running can be a numbers game for a lot of people. It's easy to focus on quantities, but how often do you think about the QUALITY of your running?Have you ever considered the quality of your movement? If you're like most of the people I start working with, the answer is likely no.Most runners just focus on the numbers, thinking that if they want to be a better runner, they just have to improve the obvious measureables.But like you've started to discover, this challenge is different. Starting today, you are going to get one mobility test per day to help you assess the QUALITY of your movements.It's not just about whether or not you can complete the test. We want to look at HOW your body is moving.So for each test, notice how your body moves. Is it easy or hard to perform the movement? Where do you feel limited?Does one side feel different than the other? You will also get an action item to help you start to improve your mobility. These will include things to improve the mobility of both your joints and your soft tissue. ACTION ITEMS: 1. Perform the overhead squat test as shown here in this video.  I recommend recording yourself performing the test so you can go back and analyze it. Film yourself from the front, from the side, and from the back.This test is going to reveal if there are mobility restrictions in several areas of your body. I'll be talking about those in the live training today, as well as what to do about them. 2. Check out this short video to assess your soft tissue mobility in your calves and learn a very effective technique to remove those restrictions. Thanks for Listening!!Be sure to hit FOLLOW on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one! Grab your free Strength Guide for Runners here. Interested in our coaching program? Check out our coaching options here. Grab your free copy of the Running Snapshot by clicking here. Come find us on Instagram and say hi! Don't forget: The information on this website is not intended to treat or diagnose any medical condition or to provide medical advice. It is intended for general education in the areas of health and wellness. All information contained in this site is intended to be educational in nature. Nothing should be considered medical advice for your specific situation.

Welcome to Day 1 of the Run Like A Woman challenge!  Congratulations on taking this step towards improving your running and becoming the strong runner that you want to be!As a woman over 40, I'm guessing that you have noticed that things aren't really working the same way they used to. Running feels harder, you're noticing more aches, pains, or even injuries, and don't even mention the fatigue!If any of that sounds familiar, you're not alone, and there is a good reason you're feeling that way. In perimenopause (which can start as early as 35 years old!), your hormones start to shift and change, and this hormonal chaos affects every system in your body. Perimenopause and menopause are not just hot flashes and the end of your period. There is WAY more to it, and it's not something that we have been taught!Your body simply does not respond to exercise the same way, and it becomes harder to get the results you want.You see, there's really two phases to your running life - before and after menopause, and perimenopause is the transition from phase 1 to phase 2.In phase 2, everything matters more, and you have to be much more intentional with all of your choices.You can't just throw on your shoes and head out the door like you used to.But there's good news too…There is a lot you can do to feel better and run stronger, and that's what we will be covering this week!I am all about helping you see how much power you truly have over your body in this phase of your life. Over the next 5 days, I will show you how to run stronger without pain by moving and training with intention and prioritizing the things that will actually move you forward.  Because what worked in the first phase of your running life, does not work the same way in the second phase.As a physical therapist for the past 18 years, runner for over 20 years, and coach for over 10 years, I've helped thousands of runners transform from frustrated runners struggling to achieve their goals into strong and confident Real Life Runners, in charge of their running and their life, and I am excited to help you this week to get there too!This week is all about taking action, so it's not just about learning concepts. It's about taking small steps to feeling better in just 5 minutes a day!There are 3 ingredients to totally transform your running (which you will learn this week), but our daily action items will focus on one area specifically so you can start feeling better a Thanks for Listening!!Be sure to hit FOLLOW on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one! Grab your free Strength Guide for Runners here. Interested in our coaching program? Check out our coaching options here. Grab your free copy of the Running Snapshot by clicking here. Come find us on Instagram and say hi! Don't forget: The information on this website is not intended to treat or diagnose any medical condition or to provide medical advice. It is intended for general education in the areas of health and wellness. All information contained in this site is intended to be educational in nature. Nothing should be considered medical advice for your specific situation.

Ben Berman Ghan is a writer and editor from Toronto whose prose and poetry have been published in Clarkesworld magazine, Strange Horizons, the Blasted Tree Publishing Co., the tƐmz Review and others. His previous works include the short story collection What We See in the Smoke. He now lives and writes in Calgary, Alberta, where he is a Ph.D. student in English literature at the University of Calgary. His first novel is The Years Shall Run Like Rabbits, Published by Buckrider Books/Wolsak and Wynn. https://bookstore.wolsakandwynn.ca/products/the-years-shall-run-like-rabbits

He was told he'd never walk… but God had other plans. When Glenn Cunningham was eight, his legs were burned badly in an accident. Doctors suggested amputation, but his parents didn't allow it. Against all odds, Glenn started walking again, and eventually, running. Years later, Glenn broke the world record mile time, giving all the glory to God. Just like Glenn's experience, the world will put limits on our son's hopes, dreams, and abilities. If your boy expresses an interest in a challenging or nontraditional career, such as a musician, artist, or actor, pray about it together and encourage him to pursue his passions. Through Christ, he truly can live out Glenn's life verse–”Those who wait on the Lord…will run and not grow weary.” For more ideas on raising boys to be godly men, visit Trail Life USA or RaisingGodlyBoys.com.

The current conflict in Lebanon has forced thousands of women and children in refugee camps to once again leave their homes for their own safety. Kylie Pentelow is joined by the BBC's Senior International Correspondent Orla Guerin to get the latest on the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah, and speaks to CEO and co-founder of the Alsama Project, Meike Ziervogel, to hear what impact it is having on women and children.Woman's Hour listener Fran Blackett got in touch with us because she wanted to talk about fell running, and why she wants more women involved in the sport. She joins Kylie to explain what fell running is, why she's so passionate about it, and more about her women's running group, Run Like a Haggis.Are you in your 'protective hag' era? That's what the author and journalist Poorna Bell calls the position she finds herself in. Recently she's written about feeling an increasing sense of protectiveness towards younger women. Poorna joins Kylie to talk about this stage of life and what it means to her.It's being reported that Melania Trump - the wife of former President Donald Trump - has expressed explicit support for abortion rights - one of the key dividing lines in the US presidential election. Her stance appears to be in sharp contrast with the position of her husband, as he enters the final leg of the US presidential race. Gina Yannitell Rheinhardt, Professor of Government and an expert in US politics at the University of Essex, joins Kylie to discuss.When Cathy Hollingworth was first diagnosed with breast cancer two years ago, she decided to document her journey through poetry. Now she's publishing a collection of 22 poems called Getting It Off My Chest. She joins Kylie to discuss the poems and how they helped her get through her treatment, as well as what she hopes others can learn about talking to people with cancer.Presenter: Kylie Pentelow Producer: Lottie Garton

Join us as we recap and chat about the Once Upon a Time Season 2 finale, Episodes 2x21 "Second Star to the Right" and 2x22 "And Straight on Till Morning" Did you know there are two boats that double for the Jolly Roger? One was built on the sound stage that can be used with the green screens and the other was on a barge in the harbor near Steveston where the show filmed their exterior shots Wiki page for the episode: https://onceuponatime.fandom.com/wiki/Second_Star_to_the_Right https://onceuponatime.fandom.com/wiki/And_Straight_On_'Til_Morning Links, articles, and videos mentioned in this episode: Lana Parrilla's New Fantasy Land Commercial BTS New Fantasy Land Commercial New Fantasy Land Expansion Ginnifer Goodwin talking about crying being her only special skill Join our Book Club and get access to exclusive content on Patreon Follow us on Instagram Follow us on Tiktok --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/obdykpod/support

This is season 4. In this episode, Mike Charleston is joined with his wife Sarah, and Chuck Tate. Growing a church these days sure look like they take techniques from businesses. What is the church, and who is it for? They discuss these issues and more. They do an overview of the book of Psalms in their new segment "How well do you know the Bible". Also, Sarah's song of the week. Chuck has a missionary story. If you want to ask a question or make a comment: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Talk@fellowshipofbelievers.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Or record a voice message ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://anchor.fm/mike-charleston/messag⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sarah's new book ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"You Can Run in Flip-Flops, But Is That the Best Way"⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out the website at⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.fellowshipofbelievers.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ To watch Every Step go here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh8dX0VUPJw&t=s&ab_channel=RebekahCharleston⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Or watch it here ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/v7OLvuGjcHM Find the show on: Apple, Spotify, Anchor, Breaker, Google, Pocket Cast, RadioPublic, Audible, and now on YouTube

Charter captain Dumper Dan Welsch reports great fishing continues for salmon, along with lake and rainbow trout on Lake Michigan and off the Sheboygan piers. In a video posted by Mansion on the Lake, Dan Welsch explains how he earned the nickname that became his trademark. (dumperdan.com, facebook.com/mansiononthelake/) Eric Printz, director of development for Florence County, Wisconsin, invites listeners to ride the trails, paddle the rivers, or attend the Run Like a Zebra fundraiser for Ehlers/Danlos Syndrome and other outdoor events this summer in Florence County. (exploreflorencecounty.com, runlikeazebra.com, zebraheartsfoundation.org) Northwoods correspondent and sailboat captain Jon Small reports the summer sailing season is in full swing on Lake Superior out of the port of Bayfield, with options for day trips and overnight adventures in the Apostle Islands. (allhandssailing.org, truenorthsailingcharters.com)

Send us a Text Message.Intro song: Chalk Dust Torture1. Wolfman's Brother2. 46 Days3. Sand4. Tweezer5. JoyOutro song: Run Like an Antelope

DON'T MISS staying CONNECTED with C.A.C through our FACEBOOK page for current news, updates and events. For more information, check out our Facebook page, as well as our website:C.A.C FACEBOOK:https://www.facebook.com/CACFlint/WEBSITE:  https://www.cacflint.comALSO:Continue to catch up on the latest C.A.C Sermon ON THE ROAD!! Just tune into our local radio station SATURDAY @ 1pm & SUNDAYS @ 2:30 pm on WSNL A.M 600/F.M 106.5. A HUGE THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT

A Books Episode! In this episode we discuss Run Like a Pro by Matt Fitzgerald, The Outsider by Stephen King, and the use of AI in writing. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/weather-permitting/support

Plus, 'A recipe for paralyzing government': Supreme Court conservatives deliver long-desired outcome for Republicans

Well meaning companies will bring in financial advisors to extol the virtues of investing in 401ks and matching plans, while some of their employees are still living paycheck to paycheck. With YNAB, you can take control of your money and get off the paycheck to paycheck cycle, then run to HR and take that 401k match like you stole it!     Got a question for Jesse? Send him an email: askjesse@ynab.com   Sign up for a free 34-day trial of YNAB at www.youneedabudget.com   Follow YNAB on social media: Facebook: @iYNAB Instagram: @youneedabudget Twitter: @ynab Tik Tok: @ynabofficial

This week, Lynne will tell you about one determined man who radically changed the face of track and field in the Paralympic Games and the lives of active amputees everywhere. It's an uplifting tale of ingenuity and perseverance, but of course we were somehow unable to avoid a tiny tangent of murder.   Special note: Dr. Helen Shui is truly a doctor, but is working under a pseudonym for privacy reasons. Dr. Lynne Kramer is using her real name.  Music by Helen Shui and Caplixo. Cover art by Lynne Kramer.  Sources: Sporting Witness: Why I designed the prosthetic running leg CUSP Conference 2011 Inventive Minds: Van Phillips Van Phillips Flex-Foot Prosthetics via Lemelson-MIT Van Phillips via CUSP Innovative Lives: Artificial Parts: Van Phillips by Martha Davidson Mechanics of Oscar Pistorius's Running Blades via Wikipedia Ossur  Please contact us with questions/concerns/comments at defunctdoctorspodcast@gmail.com. @defunctdoctorspodcast on Instagram, Facebook, X (Twitter), Threads, YouTube, and TikTok  Follow Lynne on Instagram @lynnedoodles555

Join Cooper for an invigorating chat with Natalie Dau, aka @rockstararms, a powerhouse in fitness and motivation. Natalie, co-author of "Run Like a Woman," shares her journey from late-blooming runner to dominating ultramarathons, all while representing brands like ASICS and Garmin. She delves into her role as a media personality, from hosting "Keeping It Real" to producing the transformative series "Zero to Hero."Natalie's passion for empowering others shines as she discusses her global speaking engagements, content creation, and community initiatives alongside motherhood. With her vast experience and commitment to storytelling, Natalie inspires listeners to embrace their own high-performance journey, backed by over 25 years of expertise in marketing and sports nutrition. Don't miss this conversation filled with insights and practical advice for unlocking your potential and living life to the fullest. Join Natalie's 700,000-strong social media following and embark on your path to greatness.A few key topics in this chatGrowing up in AustraliaCorporate lifeMoving to SingaporeFitness and healthWorld record attemptNat's LinksINSTAGRAMWEBSITESPONSORS :)MEDIBANKWILD EARTH AUSTRALIAFor all of your running, camping, and adventure needs! Click here to sign up for a full-time discount! Put club - The Good Human PodDRINK AREPA Use code - GOODHUMAN for 25% off Ārepa Brain Performance Drink!Cooper's LinksINSTAGRAMTIK TOKThe Good Human Factory LinksINSTAGRAMWEBSITEMERCH - CODE - PODCAST 25% OFFWORKSHOP ENQUIRYTHE GOOD HUMAN FACTORY™️ 2020 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“Just keep going forward,” says Dimity Davis who, as co-founder of community platform Another Mother Runner and co-author of “Run Like a Mother,” helps women maintain their passion and commitment to running while balancing work and family life. On today's episode of The Code she'll talk to host Dr. Andrew Fix about how to carve time out for yourself even when you're being pulled in many directions. The unpredictability of life with kids is a lot to adjust to for many runners who like the strictness and repetition of a running practice. She explains how to be strategic with your time, how to give yourself grace, and the unexpected places you can fit in a workout.    Motherhood, Dimity says, can be very, very isolating. It's important to have a “third place—“ somewhere other than home and work where you can experience camaraderie with women who are experiencing all of the same things you are. She discusses the importance of in-person meetings in an increasingly digitalized world.    Ultimately, it's about self-care and self-advocacy. Join today's discussion to learn the one thing you can do at the start of each day to ensure the rest of the day is a success.    Quotes • “Women were coming at it wanting to beat depression—that's a huge thing—wanting to lose baby weight, wanting to hang out with their friends…they had a sense of agency, that they were something besides a mom, or a worker, or a sister or a daughter, or whatever. They would say, ‘I'm a runner and that's for me.'”  (12:46 | Dimity Davis)  • “Running to me felt at that time that it was still the realm of really skinny guys in split shorts at the track who were doing their drills prior and just living and dying by running and not a suburban house mom who was loving her nine-minute miles.” (13:54 | Dimity Davis) • “It's really hard because endurance athletes and runners like the strict schedule, like the repetition, love the crispness of it all, and you throw a kid in the mix and nothing's crisp anymore.'” (21:05 | Dimity Davis) • “If you can start the day taking care of yourself… and what makes you feel good, the rest of the day is just a downhill coast. And if the rest of the day goes completely bonkers and you don't get anything else done on your to-do list, you still feel good because you got that workout in.” (26:01 | Dimity Davis) • “Be an advocate for yourself. Take what you need as far as time, try to bring that self-care in as much as you can, without disrupting everything, but don't be a martyr.” (54:10 | Dimity Davis)   Links Connect with Dimity Davis: https://anothermotherrunner.com/ https://www.instagram.com/dimityontherun/ https://www.instagram.com/themotherrunner/ SideKick Tool: https://bit.ly/4a6CqJS   Movemate:
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Kelly Whittaker-Cummings is a certified run coach as well as the chief instructor and northeast curriculum lead for Barry's Bootcamp living here in Boston. When her career in finance felt like a major soul suck, she made a huge pivot to quit her job cold turkey to start working the front desk at Barry's Bootcamp. Through her passion for running and relatability not just as a coach, but also a human being, she has become one of the most sought after mentors in the red room and beyond. Embarking on her 43rd marathon next week in the 126th Boston Marathon, it's safe to say she knows a thing or two about what it takes to run your own race and help others along their mental and physical journey with running too. Follow Kelly: @kjw227Take her class at Barry's in BostonFollow Madison: @madisoncicconeMadison's Website: https://madisonciccone.com/Buy the Gratitude Journal on Amazon PrimeRide with her at SoulCycle in Boston

The Bible is full of insights for every aspect of our lives, and business is no exception. In this episode, Path for Growth COO Zack Estes joins the podcast to talk about a passage that has him excited right now: 1 Corinthians 9:24-27. Zack explains what these verses are teaching him about leadership, and then he and Alex discuss their approaches to reading the Bible in context and then applying it to their lives. They also share some practices for staying focused on what matters in the midst of competing goals and priorities.   Today we're talking with Path for Growth COO Zack Estes about 1 Corinthians 9 (0:58) The Bible is full of wisdom that directly applies to business (4:27) Define your aim, then run toward it like you might one day win the race (5:24) Context, application, and perception all matter when reading Scripture (11:53) Try to win instead of just trying not to lose (14:48) Is your ultimate reality something fleeting, or something that lasts? (24:25) Practices for keeping what matters at the center (27:58) Alignment happens when our actions are the slave of our aim (35:27) Helpful Links and Resources Try the Path for Growth Community Coaching for Free for 14 Days Path for Growth One-on-One Coaching Download the Free Reading Guide Follow Zack on LinkedIn Join Path for Growth on Instagram for more content.

You can grab the free workbook at www.catholicmomcalm.com/lent2024 Full text of St. Faustina's Diary. Reflection question: We get tired when we try to carry everything ourselves. Instead, run to the Lord like a child and trust that He will take care of it. Imagine this right now. Write what comes up. Excerpt from St. Faustina's Diary for today (1033): When I see that the burden is beyond my strength, I do not consider or analyze it or probe into it, but I run like a child to the Heart of Jesus and say only one word to Him:   “You can do all things.” And then I keep silent, because I know that Jesus Himself will intervene in the matter, and as for me, instead of tormenting myself, I use that time to love Him.

Original Airdate: January 16, 2023Kayla is joined by inspirational community leader, Anthony ‘Cool Ant' Williams, who founded the non-profit Neighborhood Hero. Neighborhood Hero's mission is to make neglected areas healthier spaces for its inhabitants. They discuss how his group of runners came about and the inspirational people around him growing up helped mold the hero he is now today. Follow AnthonyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/cool_antCheck out Neighborhood Hero: https://www.instagram.com/_neighborhoodherosFollow Us:Instagram: www.instagram.com/candicekayla/ Twitter: www.twitter.com/CandiceKayla Website: www.candicekayla.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.