Podcasts about Environment minister

As Canada's environment minister in 2015, Catherine McKenna emerged as a leading voice in the climate debate. She also faced some of the unprecedented and disturbing abuse that was aimed at public officials, and became an advocate for the voice of women in politics. McKenna is still a force at the centre of Canada's climate discussion and the global one. She talks to Wonk host Amanda Lang about the urgent economics of climate change, her new memoir and why Canada needs to deal with rising polarization.

Catherine McKenna joined me in person for a live recording of this episode at the Naval Club of Toronto here in our east end. We discussed her new book ‘Run Like a Girl', lessons learned from her six years in federal politics, the reality of political harassment, the tension between party loyalty and telling it like it is, and why we should be wary of “grand bargains” on climate with oil and gas companies.Catherine served as Environment and Climate Change Minister from 2015-2019 and Infrastructure Minister from 2019-2021. She's now the founder and CEO of Climate and Nature Solutions and chairs a UN expert group advising the Secretary General on net zero commitments.Read further:Run Like A Girl - Catherine McKenna (2025)https://www.catherinemckenna.caChapters:00:00 Introduction & Run Like A Girl Book05:32 Lessons from Politics: Hard Work & Balance08:52 Climate Barbie & Political Harassment15:26 Running for Office in Ottawa Centre23:17 Being a Team Player vs. Speaking Truth32:05 Leaving Politics40:30 Climate Policy & the Oil & Gas “Grand Bargain”48:24 Supporting Others in Politics52:56 Carbon Pricing Communication Failures59:13 Gender Balance, Feminism & Cabinet01:04:04 Final Thoughts & ClosingTranscript:Nate Erskine-Smith00:02 - 00:38Well, thank you everyone for joining. This is a live recording of the Uncommon's podcast, and I'm lucky to be joined by Catherine McKenna, who has a very impressive CV. You will know her as the former Environment Minister. She is also the founder and CEO of Climate and Nature Solutions, a consultancy focused on all things environment and nature protection. And you may or may not know, but she's also the chair of a UN expert group that gives advice to the Secretary General on net zero solutions. So thank you for coming to Beaches East York.Catherine McKenna00:38 - 00:56It's great to be here. Hello, everyone. And special shout out to the guy who came from, all the way from Bowmanville. That's awesome. Anyone from Hamilton, that's where I'm originally found. All right. Nice, we got a shout out for Hamilton. Woo-hoo.Nate Erskine-Smith00:57 - 01:19So I ran down a few things you've accomplished over the years, but you are also the author of Run Like a Girl. I was at, you mentioned a book launch last night here in Toronto, but I attended your book launch in Ottawa. And you can all pick up a book on the way out. But who did you write this book for?Catherine McKenna01:21 - 02:58So, I mean, this book has been a long time in the making. It's probably been five years. It was a bit of a COVID project. And you'll see, it's good, I've got my prop here, my book. But you'll see it's not a normal kind of book. So it has a lot of images of objects and of, you know, pictures, pictures of me getting ready to go to the state visit dinner that was hosted by Obama while I'm trying to finalize the text on climate. So it's got like random things in it, but it's intended for a much broader audience. It's really intended to inspire women and girls and young people. And I think that's particularly important right now because I work on climate and I think it's really hard. Do people here care about climate? Yes, I imagine here you care about climate. I mean, I actually think most Canadians do because they understand the wildfires and they see the smoke and people are being evacuated from communities and you can't get insurance if you're in a flood zone. But I do think in particular we need to bolster spirits. But also it's a book, it's really about how to make change. It's not like people think it's like a political memoir. So I think, you know, fancy people in politics will look at the end of the book to see if their name is there and maybe be disappointed if it isn't. But it's not really that kind of book. It's like I was a kid from Hamilton. I didn't want to be a politician. That wasn't my dream when I grew up. I wanted to go to the Olympics for swimming. And spoiler alert, I did not make the Olympic team, but I went to Olympic trials.Nate Erskine-Smith02:59 - 02:59You're close.Catherine McKenna03:00 - 04:05I was, well, closest, closest, but, but it wasn't, I mean, you know, life is a journey and that wasn't, it wasn't sad that I didn't make it, but I think it's just to hopefully for people to think I can make change too. Like I didn't come as a fully formed politician that was, you know, destined to be minister for the environment and climate change. So in particular for women and young people who are trying to figure out how to make change, I think it's a little bit my story. I just tried to figure it out. And one day I decided the best way to make change was to go into politics and get rid of Stephen Harper. That was my goal. He was my inspiration, yes, because we needed a new government. And yeah, so I really, really, really am trying to reach a much broader audience because I think we often are politicians talking to a very narrow group of people, often very partisan. And that's not my deal. My deal is we need everyone to be making change in their own way. And I want people who are feeling like maybe it's a bit hard working on climate or in politics or on democracy or human rights that you too can make change.Nate Erskine-Smith04:06 - 05:17And you were holding it up. I mean, it's a bit of a scrapbook. You've described it. And it's also honest. I mean, there was some media coverage of it that was sort of saying, oh, you said this about Trudeau, calling him a loofer. And there's a certain honesty about I've lived in politics and I'm going to call it like it is. But what I find most interesting is not the sort of the gotcha coverage after the fact. It's when you go to write something, you said you're not a writer at the launch that I saw in Ottawa, but you obviously sat down and were trying to figure out what are the lessons learned. You've had successes, you've had failures, and you're trying to impart these lessons learned. You mentioned you sort of were going down that road a little bit of what you wanted to impart to people, but you've had six years in politics at the upper echelon of decision-making on a really important file. I want to get to some of the failures because we're living through some of them right now, I think. Not of your doing, of conservative doing, unfortunately. But what would you say are the lessons learned that you, you know, as you're crystallizing the moments you've lived through, what are those lessons?Catherine McKenna05:19 - 07:12It's funny because the lessons I learned actually are from swimming in a way that actually you got to do the work. That, you know, you set a long-term goal and, you know, whatever that goal is, whatever you hope to make change on. And then you get up and you do the work. And then you get up the next morning and you do the work again. And sometimes things won't go your way. But you still get up the next morning. And I think it's important because, like, you know, look, I will talk, I'm sure, about carbon pricing. We lost the consumer carbon price. There's a chapter. It's called Hard Things Are Hard. I'm also, like, really into slogans. I used to be the captain of the U of T swim team. So I feel like my whole life is like a Nike ad or something. Hard things are hard. We can do it. But yeah, I mean, I think that the change is incremental. And sometimes in life, you're going to have hard times. But the other thing I want people to take from it is that, you know, sometimes you can just go dancing with your friends, right? Or you can call up your book club. I would sometimes have hard days in politics. And I was like, oh, gosh, that was like, what? happened. So I'd send an email, it would say to my book club. So if you have book clubs, book clubs are a good thing. Even if you don't always read the book, that would be me. But I would be SOS, come to my house. And I'd be like, all I have is like chips and wine, but I just need to hang out with regular people. And I think that's also important. Like, you know, life is life. Like, you know, you got to do the work if you're really trying to make change. But some days are going to be harder and sometimes you're just trying to hang in there and I had you know I had I have three kids one of them they're older now one of them is actually manning the the booth selling the books but you know when you're a mom too like you know sometimes you're going to focus on that so I don't know I think my my lessons are I I'm too gen x to be like you've got to do this and INate Erskine-Smith07:12 - 07:16learned this and I'm amazing no that's not writing a graduation speech I'm not I'm not writing aCatherine McKenna07:16 - 08:43graduation speech and I don't know that you know the particular path I took is what anyone else is going to do I was going to I went to Indonesia to do a documentary about Komodo dragons because my roommate asked me to so that led me to go back to Indonesia which led me to work for UN peacekeeping and peacekeeping mission in East Timor but I think it's also like take risks if you're a young person Like, don't, people will tell you all the time how you should do things. And I, you know, often, you know, doubted, should I do this, or I didn't have enough confidence. And I think that's often, women often feel like that, I'll say. And, you know, at the end, sometimes you are right. And it's okay if your parents don't like exactly what you're doing. Or, you know, people say you should stay in corporate law, which I hated. Or, you know, so I don't know if there's so many lessons as a bit as, you know, one, you got to do the work to, you know, listen to what you really want to do. That doesn't mean every day you're going to get to do what you want to do. But, you know, if you're really passionate about working human rights, work on human rights, like figure out a way to do it and then also have some fun. Like life can feel really heavy. And I felt that during COVID. I think sometimes now after, you know, looking at, you know, social media and what Donald Trump has done or threatened to do, it can feel hard. So I think it's also OK to to just check out and have fun.Nate Erskine-Smith08:44 - 08:46I like it. Well, there aren't lessons, but here are three important lessons.Catherine McKenna08:48 - 08:50I am a politician. It's good. Well, it's OK.Nate Erskine-Smith08:50 - 09:57You mentioned a few times really writing this book in a way to young people and specifically to young women to encourage them to to make a difference and to get involved. and yet politics, we were both drawn to politics, I think for similar reasons, and it is one of the most important ways to make a difference, and I wanna get to you. There are other ways to make a difference, of course, but there's a bit of a tension, I think, in what you're writing, because you're writing this encouragement to make a difference, and politics is so important, and on the flip side, you document all sorts of different ways that politics has been truly awful, the absurdity of, I knew the ridiculous idiocy of Climate Barbie, but I didn't actually appreciate that you had these bizarre men coming to your house to take selfies in front of your house. That's just a next-level awfulness. And so how do you, when you're talking to young people, to encourage them on the one hand, but also you don't want to shield them from the awfulness, and we all want to make politics a more civil, better place, but these are problematic tensions.Catherine McKenna09:58 - 10:42Yeah, I mean, look, I thought a lot about what I wanted to say about like the hate and abuse that I got, but also my staff got. I mean, they come to my office and start screaming. And of course, everything's videotaped. So and, you know, there were incidents at my house. And so I first of all, I believe in being honest. Like, I just believe in it. I believe that people deserve the truth. But also in this case, I wasn't looking for sympathy. I'm out of politics. I don't need sympathy, but we need change. And so I think the only way, one of the only ways we get changed, and you know how hard it is to get policy, like online harm legislation. We still have not gotten online harm. In a way, it's kind of unfathomable that we can't just get it. Like, we know that online.Nate Erskine-Smith10:42 - 10:43C5 happened real quick, though. Don't worry.Catherine McKenna10:43 - 10:43Okay.Catherine McKenna10:44 - 10:48Well, luckily, I'm not in politics anymore. I'm not in politics anymore.Catherine McKenna10:48 - 11:48I just do my thing. But I do think that by documenting this, I'm hoping that people will read it and say, well, wait a minute, that's not OK, because that's how we will get the support to get legislation to make sure that we hold social media platforms accountable. that's the way that we will be able to get people to say to politicians, you cannot go and do personal attacks and then go spread them online to get to get clicks. And that we can get proper protection for politicians, which I don't love, but actually we need that sometimes. So I think that it is important to say that I don't want people to feel down because I have multiple purposes in the book. Like people are talking about this. And I've had a number of my female politician friends saying thank you for stepping up because now people are taking it more seriously because they're like wow that was bad like climate barbie sounds kind of quaint now but climate barbie led to a whole bunch of things that led to a bunch of things that led to rcmp finally being outside my house whichNate Erskine-Smith11:49 - 12:05wasn't amazing but at least i felt safe but it's one thing to say quaint but it normalizes a misogyny that is that is awful right yeah so it's and it might it might not be a direct threat it might not be taking a selfie outside of your home which is an implicit threat but it is it's normalizing an awfulness in our politics.Catherine McKenna12:06 - 12:10Yeah, I mean, it is. From other politicians. It was a former minister in Harper's CabinetNate Erskine-Smith12:10 - 12:11who started it, right?Catherine McKenna12:11 - 12:21It was, or at least amplified it. We'll go there, like the climate Barbie. Okay, so climate Barbie is, it's quite weird because now my kids are like, well, Barbie went to the moon.Catherine McKenna12:21 - 12:22Barbie was an asteroid.Catherine McKenna12:23 - 14:57Quinn is here, like, you know, Barbies are, like, you know, not that big a deal. The thing is, if you are my age, if anyone here is 50 or over, I think you're pretty clear when someone who's 50 or over calls you climate barbie there's a lot going on in that and i said nothing like i was actually baptized climate barbie very early on um by a rage farming alt-right outlet they are not media and that's what they do this is their game they go after progressives to make money actually um for clickbait but i didn't do anything for so long um and i guess my team was lovely and i had a lot of really awesome women and they're like just don't do it because you'll they'll know that you know they can go after you um and so i'm at the un actually it's like seven years ago i was just at the un last week yes i heard donald trump but i was there to work on climate but it was the same thing it was the end of a really long day i was going back to the hotel i was actually in the hotel lobby some crabby hotel with my team and i look at my phone i was like why is my twitter exploded what has happened and then i see the climate barbie tweet and i said to my team. I said, okay, I'm sorry. I'm just going to have to deal with this situation. And they knew, like, I'm, when I say I'm dealing with it, I'm going to deal with it. And so I, I, you know, I'm a lawyer by training. So I, you know, try, I am Irish. I've got the hot headed side and then I've got the lawyer rational side. So I was like, okay, what am I going to say? There's going to call it out, but in a way that isn't falling into the trap of just calling names. So I said, it's in this book. I'm not going to get exactly right, but it was something like, would you use that kind of language with your girlfriend, wife, mother? You're not chasing women out of politics. Your sexism is going to chase women, whatever it was. And what was so interesting about this, and this is why in this book, I do the same thing, is that it went viral. And I wasn't trying to do this. I was trying to shame him so he would stop. And people like would stop me in the streets. And it would be, you know, conservative men, they'd be like, I'm a conservative, I'm ashamed. This is not acceptable. And I really appreciate this. This is how you stand up to bullies. And I thought, oh, this is important that we do this every once in a while, because often as a woman, you're kind of supposed to take it because otherwise you look a bit weak. And I realized actually the power is other people saying that this is not okay. So I actually appreciate that you call it out. You will see in my book. I will just let me see if I can find it. I also, like, kind of bizarrely, a bunch of, like, men would send me Barbies with really mean notes.Catherine McKenna14:57 - 15:04So they'd go to a store, buy a Barbie, then go and find the address of my constituency office or my ministerial office,Catherine McKenna15:05 - 15:32and then send it with a note that they personally addressed. Like, that's kind of weird. So anyway, the funny thing is, I guess, is it funny? I don't know. It's just it. There's a Barbie. This is actually a picture of one of the Barbies that was sent. We would normally put our Barbies in the Christmas toy drive. I guess we figured might as well give it to, you know, kids that would like the Barbie. But I found one when I was cleaning up my office. And I was like, oh, I'm going to just keep that. I'm going to like, you know, just keep that. So you can...Nate Erskine-Smith15:32 - 15:33No one's sending you Barbies.Catherine McKenna15:33 - 15:38I have a book of just... No one's sending you Barbies. Glorious things that people have sent, like written notes that people have sent over the yearsNate Erskine-Smith15:38 - 16:33where you're just like, this is the most bizarre thing to have received. And, you know, in 10 years in politics, the scrapbook grows. So speaking of, you mentioned Harper being an inspiration of sorts. You also have said, I'm just a regular person who wanted to make a change. And politics, you also said, I didn't want to be a politician. I want to be an Olympian. But you also document Sheila Copps as someone you looked up to. You mentioned your dad being very political. And Pierre Elliott Trudeau was the person in politics who was a bit of an inspiration for your dad and family. And so Harper, obviously, a motivating force for me as well in the lead up to 2015. I think there's a whole class of us in the lead up to 2015 that wanted a different kind of politics. How did you get on the ballot, though? It was you were a lawyer and you thought, no, this is this particular moment. Were people tapping on the shoulder and saying, come on, Catherine, now's the time?Catherine McKenna16:37 - 18:52Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a funny story because women often have to be asked multiple times. The thing is, I'd already been asked before 2015. And it's kind of funny because I saw my friend last night who's part of the story. So when Stéphane Dion was running, I went back to Hamilton. So that's where my parents, my dad passed away. But that's where my parents lived. And I was walking up my street. And the head of the riding association was like, would you like to run? So the election, I think, was already called. I'm pregnant. I live in Ottawa. And so I was like, oh, maybe I should think about that. So I asked my friend. He's like, well, I guess you won't have to knock on doors. So that was my first time getting asked. I did not run then. But I ran a charity that did human rights, rule of law, and good governance. I'd started this charity after having lived abroad with a friend. And, I mean, it was like banging your head on a wall in the pre-Harper times. We were trying to support human rights. We were working with indigenous youth in Canada focused on reconciliation. I cared about climate change. I was like, all of these things I'm trying to do outside of the system are a complete and utter waste of time. So I thought, OK, we've got to get rid of the government. So that's my theory of change now. My theory of change was create this charitable organization, and it's just not getting the impact. So I decided I was going to run, but I was in Ottawa Centre. So I don't know if many of you know Ottawa Centre. It's actually where Parliament's located, so it's great. It's a bike ride to work. But it was Paul Dewar, who was a really beloved NDP member of parliament. His mother had been mayor. And I really like Paul, too. But the reality is you've got to win, right? So you've got to win enough seats so you can form government. So I ran for two years. And it's interesting because I just decided to run. I canvassed, and so maybe the woman, this will maybe resonate a little bit. So I was like, okay, I really want to run, but I kind of need permission. I don't know why I thought I needed permission, but I did. So I went the rounds. And I like the Liberal Party, but it can be like an inside club. And I wasn't from Ottawa Centre. And so I think people were like a bit perplexed. They're like, we're kind of keeping this riding for a star candidate. And I was like, okay, what the heck? Who's a star?Catherine McKenna18:52 - 18:53Like, what's a star candidate?Catherine McKenna18:53 - 19:07Is that like a male lawyer who gives a lot of money to the Liberal Party? Like, I was like, seriously, what is a star candidate? Yeah, that's what it is. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. I don't know. You are a male. I ran when I was 29 and had no money.Nate Erskine-Smith19:07 - 19:09That was a setup. That was a setup.Catherine McKenna19:09 - 20:15No, it wasn't. Okay. Anyway, we'll just blow by that one. You're a little bit unusual. Okay. So we'll take you out of that. But anyway, it's quite funny because then I was like, and then people were like, actually, you should just get the party to go get you another riding that's winnable. So I was like, okay, on the one hand, you need a star candidate here for this great riding that, but on the flip side, no one can win. So I was like, okay, I don't really know. So I looked at, like, you know, I'm not a fool. I was a competitive swimmer. I want to win. So I looked at the numbers, and I realized, like, you know, if Justin Trudeau was then leader, if we did super well, we were in third place, and it was two years out. But if I worked really hard and we did super well, there was a shot at winning. So I just decided I'm going to run. And I got the chapters called The New Girls Club. And then I had men supporting me. It was fine. But I literally had a lot of women who were just like, I don't know if you can win. This is kind of bonkers. You're doing it. But I'm going to step up and give you some money. I'm going to go help sell nominations. And at that point, you had to sell them. And no one wanted to buy a nomination.Catherine McKenna20:15 - 20:20People are like, I don't want to be a party. I want to join a party, especially a liberal party.Catherine McKenna20:22 - 21:04And so those of you who are thinking about politics, how do you win a nomination? I was trying to sell memberships and people weren't buying them. I was like, oh gosh, every night I'm going out, I've got these kids and I'm going out and talking to people. And I'm spending two hours and getting one or two nominations, people signing up. So I actually realized it was my kids' friends' mothers whose names I didn't know. I just knew their kids. And I think they were like, wow, we don't really know anyone that would go into politics. But we actually think you'd be pretty good. And your kids would kind of nice. And I don't know. I'll just sign up. I don't care.Catherine McKenna21:04 - 21:06And so it was actually really heartening.Catherine McKenna21:07 - 23:15And I will say, like, for all the bad of politics, and there is some bad for sure. And you will read about it in my book. That campaign for two years, like, we knocked on more than 100,000 doors. We had the highest voter turnout in the country. We had, I had my own rules. Like, I was like, we're going to do this in the way that I believe in. and you know some like some of it was following the bomb a snowflake model like you know we wanted to run hard but we also engaged kids and it wasn't like we had just like a kid area we would have kid canvases and I just felt important to me and we went to low income parts of the riding where some people said they're not going to vote or we went to university we went to university residents they're like they're not going to vote actually they turned out in strong numbers and I got a ton of volunteers who, and people that knew my name, because like someone who knows someone who knows someone. So it was great. But I will say like, that's the one thing about getting involved in politics. You may be here. I met a couple of you who said younger people who said you'd like to run. You can do it. You don't need permission. You're gonna have to hustle. You're gonna have to build your team. But this isn't an in club. And I do sometimes worry that politics feels like an in club and it shouldn't be that like we need everyone who wants to step up and get involved in however they want to get involved to be able to do that and so that's my lesson read that chapter hopefully you feel quite inspired and when I knocked on the last door I didn't know if I would win or not but I knew we'd left it all on the ice and I felt great like I was like we also have another woman who has run here it's Kelly is it Kelly who's run a couple times you know what it's like like you build a team. Now you were in a super hard riding. I do hope you run again. But it, it's just this feeling of doing something that matters and bringing people together in a common cause that is bigger than yourself. And it's about believing you can improve lives and you can tackle climate change. So that was a great I hope you read it and feel like you can do it too, if you want to run because you can, I will say you got to work hard. That is one of the most important thing doors gotNate Erskine-Smith23:15 - 23:36got a knock on doors well so i want to get back to though you were emphasizing one this idea of an insider culture but at the same time the need to have a really local presence and it was people who who were on the ground in the community who who ultimately helped get you over the finish line the nomination i mean here you know sandy's working the bar i went to high school with his kids andCatherine McKenna23:36 - 23:41he signed up in the nomination you got sandy and he got us a beer and and you got claire and fredNate Erskine-Smith23:41 - 24:44here who again i went i went to high school with their kids and they signed up in the nomination probably for joining the Liberal Party for the first time. And you go down the list, and there are people who are behind you locally. And in part, I think when you get started, now you go, okay, well, I know this person in the party, I know that person in the party, I've lived in the party for 12, 13 years. But I was 29 when I was starting to run the nomination. No one was tapping me on the shoulder and going, like, you're a star candidate, whatever that means, as you say. And so it does require that desire to say, no one has to ask me. I'm going to go do it and I'm going to build my own local team. But it also gets, I think, at another tension of who is your team? Because you say at one point, sometimes you need to be on the outside so you can push the inside to do more. And so you're on the outside now and you can be probably more honest in your assessment of things and more critical. I have tried, though, at times over the 10 years to play that same role in caucus.Catherine McKenna24:46 - 24:49What? Nate? I thought you were always all in on everything. Yeah, all in on everything.Nate Erskine-Smith24:50 - 25:32But it does get to this idea of team. It's like, be a team player, be a team player, be a team player. And the answer back is, well, who's your team? And yeah, sure, of course the team is the Liberal caucus, but the team is also people in Beaches of East York, the people who are knocking doors with the nomination, people who are knocking doors in the election. And they also want accountability. They also want the party and the government to be the best version of itself. And so do you find you were when you think back at the six years that you were in. I mean, cabinet's a different level of solidarity, obviously. But do you think it's possible to navigate that, you know, critical accountability role inside the tent? Or do you think it's essential as you are now to be outside to play that, you know, that that truth function?Catherine McKenna25:34 - 25:46I mean, that's a that's a really hard question because I mean, I'm a team person. I just sound like I was captain of a swim team. But that doesn't team. So it's different. Like, I'll just have to distinguish like being in cabinet.Catherine McKenna25:47 - 25:52Like you do have cabinet solidarity. But in cabinet, let me tell you, like I spoke up.Catherine McKenna25:52 - 26:50I like everyone didn't didn't always like it, but I felt like I had an obligation to just say things. And that was as much to myself as it was to anyone else. But then once you do that, you know, there is this view that then you stand with the team or else you leave cabinet. That is hard. That is hard. But it's probably less hard than being in caucus where you feel like you might have less influence on the issues. The one time I felt this was actually when I was out, but it was hard to do. And this is when I spoke up and I said I felt it was time for Justin Trudeau to step down, like to like have a leadership race to allow someone new to come in. And it was funny because I got like all these texts like and I was out. Right. So you think not such a big deal. But I got texts from people and like saying, who do you think you are? Like, you know, we're a liberal team. And I was like, OK, this is weird because I get team, but team doesn't equal cult.Nate Erskine-Smith26:52 - 26:52Welcome to my world.Catherine McKenna26:56 - 28:06Nate and me, are we exactly the same? Probably not exactly the same, but no, no. but I think it's true because I was like, well, wait a minute. We also owe it to, in that case, it was also like, we got to win. Are we going to just go? Is this the way it's going? We're just going to allow us to go down even though it's clear that the wheels have come off the cart. And that was hard. But I thought about it, and I was just so worried about the other option. Like Pierre Paulyab, that was too much. And I was like, okay, if I can make a bit of a difference, I will take a hit. It's fine. But I like, look, there is it is really hard to navigate that. And I mean, obviously, if it's super chaotic and no one's supporting things, I mean, the government will fall and you can't get agendas through. There does have to be some leeway to say things like that is important. It's that line and the tension. And I know you've you've felt it. And, you know, we haven't always been on the same side of those things, probably. But that is hard. That is hard. And I don't know that there's any easy answer to that because you can't always be in opposition because you can't govern.Catherine McKenna28:07 - 28:09So I would actually put that to you, Nate.Catherine McKenna28:10 - 28:38No, but I think it's an interesting question for you because, as I said, I was in cabinet, so it was a little bit easier. I mean, you literally have to vote with the government. But for you, there were times that you decided to, you know, be your own voice and not necessarily, well, not when I say not necessarily, not support, you know, the government's position. like how did you make decisions on that like how do you decide this is the moment i'm going to do that sometimes i care but i don't care as much or maybe i've done it you know a few times and iNate Erskine-Smith28:38 - 31:51should stay together like how did you how do you make that choice so i i think that uh trudeau and running for his leadership one thing that drew me to him actually he was calling for generational renewal at the time which which appealed to me but he was also talking about doing politics differently and whether that promise was entirely realized or not you know you lived around the cabinet table you you know more than me in some ways but I would say the promise of freer votes was incredibly appealing to me as the kind of politics that I that I want to see because I do think you you want that grassroots politics you want people to be it sounds trite now but that idea of being voices for the community in Ottawa not the other way around but there is a there's a truth to that. And so how do you get there and also maintain unity? And I think they navigated that quite well when in the leadership and then it became part of our platform in 2015, he articulated this idea of, well, we're going to have whipped votes on platform promises. Do I agree with everything in the platform? No, but I'll bite my tongue where I disagree and I'll certainly vote with the government. Two, on charter rights and human rights issues. And then three, and this is more fraught but on confidence matters more fraught i say because there were moments where they made certain things confidence matters that i didn't think they should have but you know that was that was the deal and that was the deal that you know you make with constituents it's the deal that you make with with members of the liberal party beyond that i think it's more about how you go about disagreeing and then it's making sure that you've given notice making sure that you've explained your reasons i i've i've uh i've joked i've been on many different whips couches but uh andy leslie i thought was the best whip in part because he would say why are you doing this and you'd run through the reasons he goes well have you have you engaged with them like do they know yeah well have they tried to convince you otherwise yeah and but here are the reasons okay well sounds like you thought about it kid get in my office and it was a there was a you could tell why he was an effective general because he he built respect as between you uh whereas you know the other approach is you have to vote with us. But that's not the deal, and here's why. And it's a less effective approach from a whip. But I would say how you, you know, I've used the example of electoral reform. I wasn't going and doing media saying Justin Trudeau is an awful person for breaking this promise, and, you know, he's, this is the most cynical thing he could have possibly have done, and what a bait and switch. I wasn't burning bridges and making this personal. I was saying, you know, he doesn't think a referendum is a good idea. Here's why I think there's a better forward and here's why I think we here's a way of us maintaining that promise and here's why I don't think we should have broken the promise and you know different people in the liberal party of different views I think the way we go about disagreeing and creating space for reasonable disagreement within the party outside the party but especially within the party really matters and then sometimes you just have to say there's an old Kurt Vonnegut line it's we are who we pretend to be so be careful who you pretend to be and I think it's double each room politics and so you know you want to wake up after politics and think I did the thing I was supposed to do when I was there. And sometimes that means being a good team player, and other times it means standing up and saying what you think. Okay, but back to questions for you.Catherine McKenna31:52 - 31:57Do you like that one? That was pretty good. Just put Nate on the hot speed for a little bit.Nate Erskine-Smith31:59 - 33:01You can ask me questions, too. Okay, so I was going to ask you why not politics, but you've sort of said, I've heard you say you felt that you were done, and you did what you came to do. But I want to push back on that a little bit, because you did a lot of things, especially around climate. First climate plan, you put carbon pricing in place, a number of measures. I mean, that gets all the attention, and we can talk about the walk back on it. But there's stringent methane rules, there were major investments in public transit, there's clean electricity. You run down the list of different things that we've worked towards in advance. And then we talk about consumer carbon pricing, but the industrial carbon piece is huge. Having said that, do you worry you left at a time when the politics were toxic, but not as toxic as they are today around climate and certainly around carbon pricing? And do you feel like you left before you had made sure the gains were going to be protected?Catherine McKenna33:02 - 33:11I think the lesson I learned, you can never protect gains, right? Like, you're just going to always have to fight. And, like, I can't, like, when am I going to be in politics? So I'm, like, 120?Catherine McKenna33:12 - 33:12Like, sorry.Catherine McKenna33:14 - 34:43And it is really true. Like, when I, the weird thing, when, so I'd been through COVID. I had three teenagers, one who, as I mentioned, is here. And I really thought hard. Like, I turned 50. And, like, I'm not someone who's, like, big birthdays. It's, like, this existential thing. I wasn't sad. It was, like, whatever. But I was, like, okay, I'm 50 now. Like, you know, there's what do I want to do at 50? I really forced myself to do it. And I really felt like, remember, I got into politics to make change. So I just thought, what is the best way to make change? And I really felt it wasn't, I felt personally for myself at this point, it wasn't through politics. I really wanted to work globally on climate because I really felt we'd done a lot. And I did think we kind of landed a carbon price. and we'd gone through two elections and one at the Supreme Court. So I felt like, okay, people will keep it. We will be able to keep it. So I just felt that there were other things I wanted to do, and I'd really come when I – you know, I said I would leave when I had done what I'd come to do, and that was a really important promise to myself. And I really want to spend time with my kids. Like, you give up a lot in politics, and my kids were going off to university, and I'd been through COVID, and if any parents – anyone been through COVID, But if you're a parent of teenage kids, that was a pretty bleak time. I'd be like, do you guys want to play another game? And they're like, oh my God.Audience Q34:43 - 34:44As if, and then they go to their bed.Catherine McKenna34:44 - 35:15They'd be like, I'm doing school. And I'd be like, as if you're doing school, you're online. Probably playing video game. But what am I going to do, right? Let's go for another walk. They're like, okay, we'll go for a walk if we can go get a slushie. And I was like, I'm going to rot their teeth. And my dad was a dentist. So I was like, this is bad. But this is like, we're engaging for 20 minutes. Like it was really hard. And so I actually, when I made the decision, like, but the counter, the funny thing that is so hilarious now to me is I almost, I was like, I'm not going to leave because if I leave, those haters will thinkCatherine McKenna35:15 - 35:16they drove me out.Nate Erskine-Smith35:16 - 35:18So I was like, okay, I'm going to stay.Catherine McKenna35:18 - 35:20And like, it was bizarre. I was like, okay.Nate Erskine-Smith35:20 - 35:21I don't want to stay when I'm staying. I don't want to stay.Catherine McKenna35:21 - 35:46I don't think this is the most useful point of my, like, you know, part of what I, you know, this is this useful, but I'm going to stay because these random people that I don't care about are actually going to say, ha ha, I chased her out. So then I was like, okay, well, let's actually be rational here and, you know, an adult. So I made the decision. And I actually felt really zen. Like, it was quite weird after I did it, where it was actually politicians who would do it to me. They'd be like, are you okay?Catherine McKenna35:47 - 35:49And I'd be like, I'm amazing.Catherine McKenna35:49 - 36:05What are you talking about? And, like, you know, it was as if leaving politics, I would not be okay. And then people would say, like, is it hard not to have stuff? I was like, I'm actually free. I can do whatever I want. I can go to a microphone now and say whatever. Probably people will care a lot less. But I don't.Nate Erskine-Smith36:05 - 36:07You can do that in politics sometimes too.Catherine McKenna36:08 - 36:08Yes, Nate.Nate Erskine-Smith36:09 - 36:09Yes, Nate.Catherine McKenna36:09 - 39:32We know about that. Yeah, it was just. So anyway, I left politics. I was not. I do think that what I always worried about more than actually the haters thinking they won. It was that women and women and girls would think I love politics because of all the hate. And once again, I'll just repeat it because it's very important to me. The reason I say the things that happened to me in the book is not because I need sympathy. I don't. We do need change. And I felt when I left, I said I would support women and girls in politics. One of the ways I am doing it is making sure that it is a better place than what I had to put up with. Now, sadly, it's not because it's actually worse now. I hear from counselors. I hear from school board trustees. I hear from all sorts of women in politics, but also men, however you identify. Like, it's bad out there. And it's not just online. It is now offline. People think they can shout at you and scream at you and take a video of it, like put it in the dark web or wherever that goes. So, you know, that's bad. But I feel like, you know, people are like, oh, we got to stop that. And that's what's important. There's a nice letter here. So as I said, I have like random things in here. But there's this lovely gentleman named Luigi. I haven't talked about Luigi yet, have I? So I was at the airport and this gentleman came over to me. And I still get a little nervous when people, because I don't know what people are going to do. Like I probably 99% of them are very nice, but it only takes one percent. So I always get like slightly nervous. And I don't mean to be because I'm actually, as you can see, quite gregarious. I like talking to people, but never exactly sure. And he hands me a note and walks away. And I'm like, oh, God, is this like an exploding letter? Who knows? And I open it and it's in the book. So I'll read you his letter because it actually, I put it towards the end because I think it's really important. because you can see I asked Luigi if I could put his note so his note is here so Ms. McKenna I did not want to disturb you as I thought so I thought I would write this note instead because I identify as a conservative in all likelihood we probably would disagree on many issues I find it quite disturbing the level of abuse that you and many other female politicians must endure. It is unfortunate and unacceptable, and I make a point of speaking out when I see it. I hope that you take consolation in the fact that you and others like you are making it easier for the next generation of women, including my three daughters, Luigi. And I was like, this is like the nicest note. And I think that's also what I hope for my book like I hope people are like yeah we can be we can actually disagree but be normal and you know okay with each other and probably most people are um most people are like Luigi are probably not paying attention but there are people that aren't doing that and I think they're also fed sometimes by politicians themselves um who you know really ratchet things up and attack people personally and And so that's a long answer to I can't even remember the question. But I mean, I left politics and I was done. And that's not related to Luigi, but Luigi is a nice guy.Nate Erskine-Smith39:34 - 41:21It's a I think I've got those are my questions around the book. But I do have a couple of questions on climate policy because you're living and breathing that still. And although it's interesting, you comment about politicians. I mean, there's a deep inauthenticity sometimes where politicians treat it as a game. And there's these attacks for clicks. Or in some cases, especially when the conservatives were riding high in the polls, people were tripping over themselves to try and prove to the center that they could be nasty to and that they could score points and all of that. And so they all want to make cabinet by ratcheting up a certain nastiness. But then cameras get turned off and they turn human beings again to a degree. And so that kind of inauthenticity, I think, sets a real nasty tone for others in politics more generally. But on climate policy, I was in Edmonton for our national caucus meeting. I think I texted you this, but I get scrummed by reporters and they're asking me all climate questions. And I was like, oh, this is nice. I'm getting asked climate questions for a change. this is good. This is put climate back on the radar. And then a reporter says, well, are you concerned about the Carney government backtracking on climate commitments? And I said, well, backtracking on climate commitments. I mean, if you read the book Values, it'd be a very odd thing for us to do. Do you worry that we are backtracking? Do you worry that we're not going to be ambitious enough? Or do you think we're still, we haven't yet seen the climate competitiveness strategy? I mean, you know, here's an opportunity to say we should do much more. I don't know. But are you concerned, just given the dynamic in politics as they're unfolding, that we are not going to get where we need to get?Catherine McKenna41:22 - 42:31I mean, look, I'm like you. You know, first of all, I did get into politics. I wasn't an expert on climate, but I cared about climate because I have kids. Like, we have this truck that's coming for our kids, and I'm a mother, so I'm going to do everything I can. I was in a position that I learned a lot about climate policy, and climate policy is complicated, and you've got to get it right. But look, I mean, you know, Mark Carney knows as much about, you know, climate as an economic issue as anyone. And so, I mean, I'm certainly hopeful that you can take different approaches, but at the end of the day, your climate policy requires you to reduce emissions because climate change isn't a political issue. Of course, it's very political. I'm not going to understate it. I know that as much as anyone. But in the end, the science is the science. We've got to reduce our emissions. And you've probably all heard this rant of mine before, but I will bring up my rant again. I sometimes hear about a grand bargain with oil and gas companies. We did a grand bargain with oil and gas companies.Catherine McKenna42:31 - 42:31How did that work out?Catherine McKenna42:31 - 42:32Yeah.Catherine McKenna42:32 - 42:33How did that work out? Tell us. How did that work out?Catherine McKenna42:33 - 47:27Let me tell you how that worked out. So we were working really hard to get a national climate plan. And I saw it as an obligation of mine to work with provinces to build on the policies they had. The Alberta government had stood, so it was the government of Rachel Notley, but with Murray Edwards, who's the head of one of the oil and gas companies, with environmentalists, with economists, with indigenous peoples, saying, okay, this is the climate plan Alberta's going to do. A cap on emissions from oil and gas. a price on pollution, tough methane regs, and, you know, some other things. And so then we were pushed, and it was really hard. I was the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, where we had a climate emergency one day, and then we had a pipeline. The next, I talk about that. That was hard. But the reality is, we felt like that, you know, the Alberta government, we needed to support the NDP Alberta, you know, the NDP government at the time early on. And so then what did we get? Like, where are we right now? We basically, none of the, either those policies are gone or not effective. We got a pipeline at massive taxpayer costs. It's like 500% over. We have oil and gas companies that made historic record profits, largely as a result of Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine. What did they do with those profits? They said that they were going to invest in climate solutions. They were going to reduce their emissions. They were all in. But instead, they give their CEOs massive, massive historic bonuses. I'm from Hamilton. That's not a thing when you get these massive historic record bonuses. At the same time, they gave the money back to shareholders who were largely Americans. While they demanded more subsidies to clean up their own pollution, while we are in a climate crisis that is a fossil fuel climate crisis. I now feel taken for a fool because I believed that the oil and gas, like in particular, the oil sands would live up to their end of the bargain. You will see in the book also, I don't know, I probably can't find the page fast enough. I did pinky promises with kids because all these kids came up to me all the time and they said, like, I'm really working hard on climate change. You know, I've got a water bottle. I'm riding my bike. I'm doing like a used clothing drive, whatever it was. And I said, you know what? I'm doing my part, too. Let's do a pinky promise like a pinky swear. And we will promise to continue doing our part. Well, we all did our part. By the way, basically everyone in all sectors have done their part except for oil and gas when they had massive historic record profits. And I wrote a report for the UN Secretary General on greenwashing. And they were exhibit A, exhibit A on what greenwashing looks like, like saying you're doing things that you are not doing and while you're lobbying to kill every policy. So I just hope that people aren't taken for fools again. Like the grand bargain should be they should live up with their end of the bargain. Like that is what bargains are. You got to do what you say you were going to do. And they didn't do it. And as a result, it's extremely hard for Canada to meet our target because they are 30% and growing of our emissions. So I also think like, why are we paying? Why would taxpayers pay? So, look, I don't know. Hard things are hard, as my mug says that I was given by my team because I said it every single day, about 12 times a day. You have to make very tough decisions in government. And we're in a trade war. And also defending our we have to absolutely stand up and defend our sovereignty against the Trump regime, which is very dangerous and very destabilizing. but at the same time we can't not act on climate climate is a here and now problem it's not this fire problem like all these people were evacuated from communities the cost of climate change is massive people are not going to be able to be insured that's already happening and so i just think you gotta walk and chew gum you gotta like figure out how to you know build and grow the economy but you also need to figure out how to tackle climate change and reduce your emissions and to be honest, hold the sector that is most responsible for climate change accountable for their actions and also for their words because they said they were going to act on climate and they supported these policies and they are now still fighting to kill all these policies. You almost can't make it up. And I just don't think Canadians should be taken for fools and I think you've got to make a lot of choices with tax dollars. But I'm not in government And I think, you know, we have, you know, Mark Carney, he's very smart. He's doing a great job of defending Canada. You know, I think like everyone, I'm waiting to see what the climate plan is because it's extremely important. And the climate plan is an economic plan as much as anything else.Nate Erskine-Smith47:28 - 48:23And on that, I would say not just an economic plan, but when you talk about national resiliency, there's a promise in our platform to become a clean energy superpower. There's a promise in our platform to create an east-west transmission grid. And just in Ontario, when you look at the fact that not only are they doubling down on natural gas, but they're also importing natural gas from the United States. When solar, wind, storage is actually more cost effective, investments in east-west transmission grid and in clean energy would make a lot more sense, not only for the climate, not only for the economy, but also as a matter of resiliency and energy independence as well. Okay, those are my questions. So thank you for... Give a round of applause for Calvin. Thank you for joining. With the time that we've got left, Christian, we've got, what, 10, 15 minutes? What time is it? Okay, great. Okay, so does anyone have questions for Ms. McKenna?Audience Q48:25 - 49:09It's a question for both of you, actually. You guys have both been trailblazers in your own right, I think, inside and inside of politics. And you talk a lot about building your community and building your team, whether it's swimming or local politics, and also demanding space in those places to be competitive, all the way up from your local team up to the prime minister. But I'm curious on the other side of that, what does it look like to be a good teammate inside and inside of politics, and how do we support more people, for those of us that might not be running, but trying to get more people like you? Or maybe as an example, somebody that supported you in your run?Catherine McKenna49:11 - 49:56well i mean look i'm trying to do my part and so what i did and it's like what most of you did you go support people that you think are good that are running so i in the last election i went and i supported people that i thought were serious about climate including in ridings that we had never won before um and i also well probably especially those writings um and i also supported women candidates that was just a choice I mean but I think everyone getting involved in politics is a great way to do it but also you know when you think there's someone good that might be good to run you know you know talk to them about it and as I said for women they need to be asked often seven times I think is it so like for women maybe just start asking and if we get to the seventh time maybeNate Erskine-Smith49:56 - 51:38really good women will run and I would add I suppose just on locally I have found one, going into schools and talking politics and encouraging people to think about politics as an opportunity has translated into our youth council. It's then translated into our young liberals internship over the summer where we make sure people are able to be paid to knock on doors and just maintain involvement. And then a number of those people come through either our office and then they're working in politics in the minister's office or in the prime minister's office or they're going to law school or they're adjacent to politics and helping other people and just encouraging people to at least be close to politics so that they see politics as a way to make a difference, there will then be people that will want to run from that or help encourage other people to run. The second thing, and I'll use Mark Holland as an example, when I was running the nomination and I didn't have contacts in the party, but I had someone who knew Mark Holland and he gave me advice to think about it like concentric circles when you're running a nomination where you have people who are close to you and then the people who are close to you will have 10 people that are close to them that maybe they can sign them up for you or maybe they just are they open the door and I you know if so if someone opens the door to a conversation with me I feel pretty confident that I can close the sale but if the door is closed in my face I'm not gonna I'm not gonna even have an opportunity to and so just that idea of building out you start with your your home base and you build out from there build out from there so I just think I have in the last week had conversations with two people who want to run for office at some point, they're both under the age of 30, and I've given that same kind of advice of, here's what worked for me. It may work for you, it may not, it depends, but find where your home base is, and then just grow from there. And so I think just spending time, likeAudience Q51:39 - 52:30giving one's time to give advice like that is really important. Yeah. Building on that, that's, I wanted to, because I think that does nicely into what you said earlier, Catherine, about and really encouraging young women in particular to get into politics. But it's not just, it's all the peripheral people, people that are peripheral to politics, your concentric circles, so that you don't necessarily have to run for an office. And I appreciate what you've done for girls. But I also want you to know that, I mean, I'm older than you, and still you are a role model to me. Not only that, though, I have sons in their mid to late 20s. and I've made sure you're a role model and women like you are a role model to them because I think that's how change begins.Nate Erskine-Smith52:32 - 52:34This was entirely planted just for you, by the way.Catherine McKenna52:35 - 52:37No, but I think that's...Nate Erskine-Smith52:37 - 52:40So I do think that's important, right?Catherine McKenna52:40 - 53:26My book is not... Run Like a Girl, I'm a woman, I identify as a woman and there's a story about how I was told I ran like a girl and so it really bugged me. So it's kind of a particular thing. But I think that is important. Like, you know, this isn't exclusive. Although, you know, there are, you know, certain different barriers, at least that I'm aware of, you know, that if you're a woman, if you're LGBTQ2+, if you're racialized or indigenous, there could be different barriers. But I hear you. And I think, you know, we do have to inspire each other in a whole range of ways. So that is very nice. I hope that, I mean, I'm not, you know, looking to, you know, you know, for kudos. I really, but it is nice to hear that you can inspire people in a whole different way, you know, range of ways.Audience Q53:26 - 53:47It's really, yeah, it's really not about kudos. It's about, you know, it's not that my intent is not just to applaud you. It's just, it's to, it's to recognize you. And that's different, like being seen, holding place, holding space for people to be involved. And so I do have one actual question of this.Catherine McKenna53:48 - 53:50You can ask a question after that.Audience Q53:51 - 53:57Regarding pricing, carbon pricing, how would you communicate the rollout differently?Catherine McKenna53:58 - 54:43Well, I would actually fund it. So hard things at heart, I'm like, okay, well, first of all, we know the Conservatives were terrible. They lied about it. They misled. They didn't talk about the money going back. The problem is, like, we hampered ourselves too. And it was really quite weird because I was like, okay, well, we need an advertising budget because clearly this is a bit of a complicated policy. But the most important thing I need people to know is that we're tackling climate change and we're doing it in a way that we're going to leave low income and middle income people better off. You're going to get more money back. That's very, very important. The second part of the message is as important because I knew the conservatives were going to be like, you're just increasing the price of everything. But we were told we couldn't advertise. And I was like, why? And they said, well, because we're not like conservatives because they had done the, what was the plan?Nate Erskine-Smith54:43 - 54:51The economic action plan. The signs everywhere. They basically, what Ford does now, they were doing it.Catherine McKenna54:51 - 57:40So that sounds really good, except if you're me. Because I was like, well, no one really knows about it. So I'm like one person. And we got some caucus members, not all of them. But Nate will go out and talk about it. Some people will talk about it. But I said, people are entitled to know what government policy is, especially in this particular case, where you've literally got to file your taxes to get the rebate. Because that was the second mistake we made. I was told that we couldn't just do quarterly checks, which would be much more obvious to people, even if it was automatically deposited, you actually named it properly, which was another problem. But, you know, all of these things that are just normal things. And instead, we were told, I was told by the folks in the Canada Revenue Agency, there's no way we could possibly do quarterly checks. after COVID, when we did everything, we blew everything up, then they were like, oh, actually, and this was after me, but they were like, we can do quarterly chaps. I was like, well, that's really helpful. Like, that would have been nice, like a little bit longer, you know, like the beginning of this. And so I think like, we do need to be sometimes very tough, like, don't do things that sound great and are not, are really hampering your ability to actually deliver a policy in a way that people understand. So like, it's just a hard policy. Like, you know, people say, would you have done, what would you have done differently? Yes, I would have communicated it differently. I tried. Like, I was out there. I went to H&R Block because I saw a sign, and they were like, climate action incentive. Oh, by the way, we couldn't call it a rebate because the lawyers told us injustice. We couldn't do that, and I'm a lawyer. I was like, what? And so I should have fought that one harder too, right? Like, I mean, there's so many fights you can have internally as well, but, you know, there I am. I was like, oh, H&R Block, they're doing free advertising for us because they wanted people to file their taxes, so then I would make, I said to all caucus members, you need to go to your HR block and get a family. I don't even want to see you necessarily. I want a family to be sitting down being told they're getting money back. And, and so like, look, I think it's just a hard policy. And, and what happened though, I mean, read hard things are hard, but the chapter, but it's, um, and people will be like, I'm definitely not reading that chapter. You can skip chapters. This book is like, go back and forth, rip things out. I don't, you don't have to read it in chronological order or read particular chapters. But was if the price is going to go up every year, every year you better be ready to fight for it because every year you're literally creating this conflict point where conservatives are like, they're on it. They're like spending so much tax dollars to mislead people. Remember the stickers on the pump that fell off? That was quite funny. They actually fell off. But you're going to have to fight for it. And so we just, it's a hard, it's a very hard policy. I did everything I could. And I don't live with life with regrets. I think it was really important. And by the way, it's a case study outside of Canada.Catherine McKenna57:41 - 57:42Everyone's like, Canada.Catherine McKenna57:42 - 57:52I was like, oh, yeah, there is like a little different ending than you might want to know about what happened. But they're like, yes, this is, of course, how we should do it. Should be a price on pollution. Give the money back.Nate Erskine-Smith57:52 - 58:38I went to a movie at the Beach Cinema with my kids. And there was an ad. This is years ago. But there was an ad. So we were advertising. But it was advertising about the environment climate plan. and it was like people in canoes. And I was like, what is this trying to, like we're spending how much money on this to tell me what exactly? And I went to, Stephen was the minister, and I went, Stephen, can we please advertise Carbon Pricing Works, it's 10 plus percent of our overall plan, and 80% of people get more money back or break even. Just tell people those three things, I don't need the canoe. and then he was like oh we can't we we they tell it they tell us we can't do it no no and that'sCatherine McKenna58:38 - 58:55what you're often told like it is kind of weird internally the amount of times you're told no like on advertising it is a particular thing because like and so then you're like having a fight about comms i was like oh my gosh can we don't think the canoe is going to win this carbon and it didn't turns out i love canoeing by the way so maybe it would have convinced me if i wasNate Erskine-Smith58:55 - 59:01i think last question we'll finish with that with maryland hi i'm maryland and i also happen to beAudience Q59:01 - 01

Emma Reynolds has been appointed the new Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs in the UK. How will she sort through all the recent reports and reviews into the highly contentious future of the water sector in the UK? What actions will she take from the various recommendationsThere is drought in many parts of the UK. Should it be water companies that decide (and announce) when things like hosepipe bans are implemented or could there be a better process?What are Sponge Cities? How has China had so much success with them and should the approach be replicated in other parts of the world?Host Niki Roach and CIWEM Director of Policy Al Chisholm discuss all of the above current issues in this month's Planet Possible MiniPod.If you want to find out more about the 'A Fresh Water Future Conference' in December, visit:www.ciwem.org/events/a-fresh-water-future-conference-2025 Credits Presented & Produced by Niki RoachExecutive Producer Andy Taylor - Bwlb LimitedWith thanks to Alastair ChisholmHonorary Executive Producer Jane Boland

The St. Clair Region Conservation Authority is warning Chatham residents of potential flash flooding and water pooling on roads because of thunderstorms. The Dresden landfill issue has reached the desk of the federal Environment Minister. A 36-year-old CK man is facing serious charges after an argument went too far. CKHA has hired 13 new people following the elimination of multiple managerial positions. Chatham-Kent Public Health is defending the harm reduction work happening across the municipality, specifically at encampments. The federal government says it'll start a review of Canada Post next month. There is a severe thunderstorm warning in effect for the area.

Murujuga traditional owner and Mardathoonera woman Raelene Cooper says her lawyers have put the Environment Minister on notice that his green lighting of the 40 year extension for the North West Shelf project in the Pilbara.

Tom Mulcair can be heard every weekday morning at 7:40 on The Andrew Carter Morning Show.

The Federal Court says it won't order the federal Environment Minister to make a decision on safeguarding Indigenous rock art in Western Australia's Burrup Peninsula, despite finding he has taken too long to assess the protection application.

Listen live on the FIVEAA Player. Follow us on Facebook, X and Instagram. Subscribe on YouTubeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A tragic military helicopter crash has claimed the lives of eight people, including Ghana's Defence Minister and Environment Minister. As the nation mourns, the blame game has begun — many Ghanaians point to poor roads and failing infrastructure as the root cause. But is it too soon to draw conclusions? Is it justified to keep blaming the government, or should we wait for the official report?

Full interview: Vocational Education Minister Penny Simmonds is overseeing huge changes to New Zealand's vocational education system. But after years of reform, could training providers stand alone as Te Pūkenga is dismantled? Q+A also asks Simmonds about her absence from major environmental policies — from freshwater management in farms to the fast-track approvals regime — as Environment Minister.

Federal Environment Minister Murray Watt - 22th July 2025See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Environment minister, Darragh O'Brien, has ruled out developing nuclear energy as an answer to the country's pressing need for clean electricity. The Minister said it's not even in the room, let alone on the table as an option. We get reaction to this with Denis Duff, Chartered Engineer and Co-founder of 18for, a voluntary group of energy, nuclear, environment, medicine & Health experts.

Environment minister, Darragh O'Brien, has ruled out developing nuclear energy as an answer to the country's pressing need for clean electricity. The Minister said it's not even in the room, let alone on the table as an option. We get reaction to this with Denis Duff, Chartered Engineer and Co-founder of 18for, a voluntary group of energy, nuclear, environment, medicine & Health experts.

Wednesday Headlines: Samantha Murphy’s accused killer given trial date, Australia’s economic growth downgraded as the OECD singles out our housing crisis, calls for government intervention into e-scooters, the TGA's expanding the use of Mounjaro, and record Ashes ticket demand causes drama for fans. Deep Dive: Young Australians are among a growing group of critics calling on Australia's Environment Minister, Murray Watt, to walk back a 40-year extension granted to Woodside's controversial gas project in WA. The decision sparked backlash from environmental advocates, Indigenous communities, and cohorts of Aussie youth who say it undermines Australia's climate commitments and threatens cultural heritage sites. The criticism saw Woodside’s own CEO further fuel the controversy, accusing young climate activists of being hypocrites for opposing fossil fuels but happily consuming fast fashion. In this episode of The Briefing, Tara Cassidy speaks to Jordan Rowand from the Australian Youth Climate Coalition about the contentious project, and why they want Murray Watt to back out of the deal.Further listening from the headlines: The Easey Street murders explained Follow The Briefing: TikTok: @listnrnewsroom Instagram: @listnrnewsroom @thebriefingpodcast YouTube: @LiSTNRnewsroom Facebook: @LiSTNR NewsroomSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A kind of tortoise not seen in more than 110 years has been found in the Galapagos Islands.在加拉帕戈斯群岛已经发现了一种超过110年的乌龟。A female from a species known as the Fernandina giant tortoise was discovered last weekend on the island of Fernandina.上周末在费尔南迪纳岛上发现了一个名为Fernandina巨型龟的物种的雌性。The Galapagos is a group of 20 islands in the eastern Pacific Ocean, about 1,000 kilometers off the coast of Ecuador.加拉帕戈斯（Galapagos）是东太平洋的20个岛屿，距离厄瓜多尔海岸约1000公里。The islands belong to Ecuador and the tortoise discovery was announced by the country's ministry of environment. It said that the creature was identified by researchers from the Galapagos National Park and the Galapagos Conservancy, a group based in the United States.这些岛屿属于厄瓜多尔，该国环境部宣布了乌龟发现。 它说，该生物是由加拉帕戈斯国家公园（Galapagos National Park）和总部位于美国的组织加拉帕戈斯保护协会（Galapagos Consercan）的研究人员确定的。Wildlife experts had thought the Fernandina giant tortoise no longer existed.野生动植物专家认为不再存在Fernandina巨人乌龟。The researchers said they believe the adult female tortoise is more than 100 years old. The animal was taken to a breeding center for giant tortoises on the Galapagos island of Santa Cruz.研究人员说，他们认为成年女性乌龟已有100多年的历史。 该动物被带到加拉帕戈斯岛圣克鲁斯岛上的巨型乌龟的繁殖中心。The International Union for Conservation of Nature says the only other living member of the species was found in 1906. Since then, researchers have found some evidence of Fernandina giant tortoise activity. There was an unconfirmed sighting in 2009. But the latest find was the first new confirmed sighting of the species.国际自然保护联盟说，该物种中唯一的其他活着的成员是1906年发现的。从那时起，研究人员发现了一些Fernandina巨人乌龟活动的证据。 2009年有一个未经证实的目击。但最新发现是对该物种的首个新的确认目击。Investigators believe there may be more members of the species on Fernandina Island because of animal droppings and tracks they found.调查人员认为，由于他们发现的动物粪便和曲目，在费尔南迪纳岛上可能会有更多的物种成员。Danny Rueda is the director of Galapagos National Park. He says the discovery provides new hope for possible successful breeding. "This encourages us to strengthen our search plans to find other turtles, which will allow us to start a breeding program in captivity to recover this species," he said in a statement.丹尼·鲁达（Danny Rueda）是加拉帕戈斯国家公园（Galapagos National Park）的主任。 他说，这一发现为可能的成功繁殖提供了新的希望。 他在一份声明中说：“这鼓励我们加强我们的搜索计划，以找到其他海龟，这将使我们能够在被囚禁中开始一个繁殖计划，以恢复该物种。”Fernandina is the third-largest island in the Galapagos. A volcano there is one of the most active in the world. The International Union for Conservation of Nature said it feared the species was likely lost to repeated volcanic lava flows “that nearly cover the island.”费尔南迪娜（Fernandina）是加拉帕戈斯（Galapagos）的第三大岛。 火山是世界上最活跃的火山之一。 国际自然保护联盟表示，人们担心这种物种可能会因为“几乎覆盖该岛”的重复火山熔岩流失。Ecuador's Environment Minister, Marcelo Mata Guerrero, said the government fully supports additional research and development efforts aimed at saving the species.厄瓜多尔环境部长马塞洛·马塔·格雷罗（Marcelo Mata Guerrero）表示，政府完全支持旨在拯救该物种的其他研发工作。

Jennifer talks with Kelly O'Shanassy, CEO of the Australian Conservation Foundation (ACF) about the implications of the recent federal Labor victory for climate change, and the preservation of our natural enviornment and endangered species.They discuss the recent 'climate bomb' decision made by new Environment Minister, Murray Watt, to approve an extension of Woodside Energy's North West Shelf gas project in WA to 2070. Kelly explains the fossil fuel-friendly policy context of this decision.Kelly also talks about the need for strong legislation that preserves our natural environment and the habitats of a multitude of endangered species.She engenders a sense of hope, and faith in 'people power', and she shares with listeners ways they can fight these catastrophes with others who also care about the environment and the future. 

Decisions by Australia's Labor Government through its newly minted Environment Minister, Murray Watt, have sent shudders through many, and the airwaves of the Australian Broadcasting Corporation were alive with comments and observations: "Australia's largest gas project granted extension";"Gas is no longer a dirty word for Labor. Should it be?";"The Woodside boss's attacks on my generation are blatant scapegoating – and we see straight through them ";"Damaging winds follow ‘unusual' dust storm in Victoria";"As Australia's carbon offset industry grapples with integrity concerns, how can companies genuinely tackle climate change?";"5 huge climate opportunities await the next parliament – and it has the numbers to deliver".

Australian Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, claims he cares about climate change, but then supports his Environment Minister, Murray Watt, in his moves to quickly advance a major gas project off the Western Australian coast: "Murray Watt knocks back objections to Woodside's North West Shelf extension and clears way for final decision";"‘Desolate': farmers in NSW's west battle drought as east coast mops up after floods";"Reliable energy or ‘carbon bomb'? What's at stake in the battle over Australia's North West Shelf";"Clean-up begins as waters recede after devastating NSW floods";"Greenwashing is rife in Australia, but could its days be numbered?";"The U.S. Under Trump: Alone in Its Climate Denial";"'It's all gone': After losing nearly everything to the floods, Kelly now faces mould and rats";"The NSW floods have already been linked to climate change. Scientists are debating if that's too quick";"The Pilbara is at risk of becoming a ‘wasteland'. Could green iron help?";"The intensifying climate driver behind the coastal deluges and inland drought";"Spectacular rescue amid isolation and exhaustion";"Climate Council Statement On NSW Floods: More Destructive Due To Climate Change";"Disaster or digital spectacle? The dangers of using floods to create social media content";"Urban rewilding has brought back beavers, hornbills and platypuses to city parks – and that's just the start";"Vivid, thrilling and ghastly: new theatrical adaptation of The Birds evokes climate disaster, terrorism and lockdown";"Can Murray Watt fix Australia's broken nature laws? First stop, Western Australia";"Antarctica has its own ‘shield' against warm water – but this could now be under threat".

Australia has a new environment minister – and he has a big job ahead of him: fixing the country’s broken environment laws. Murray Watt has replaced Tanya Plibersek, whose efforts at reform were famously thwarted by the prime minister. But before Watt can begin that task, he faces another critical decision: whether to let Woodside Energy extend its North West Shelf gas project to 2070 – opening new gas fields and unleashing a “carbon bomb” worth roughly 10 times Australia’s current annual emissions. Today, national correspondent for The Saturday Paper, Mike Seccombe, on Murray Watt, his plans for the environment and the decision that could define his tenure. If you enjoy 7am, the best way you can support us is by making a contribution at 7ampodcast.com.au/support. Socials: Stay in touch with us on Instagram Guest: National correspondent for The Saturday Paper, Mike Seccombe. Photo: AAP Image / Darren EnglandSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Marks Carruthers speaks to the Agriculture and Environment Minister, the First and deputy First Ministers and other political figures at the Balmoral Show.

THE CLIMATE ACTION SHOWProduced by Vivien Langford and Bella JessonMay 5th 2025THE GREATER GLIDER  Protect our ForestsandNO MUSIC ON A DEAD PLANET While the state  Environment Minister is asleep in her bed at night, forest protectors are out in the dark, on tough terrain, with torches trying to locate greater glider nesting trees. The law says the loggers must avoid parts of the forest where there is evidence that this is glider habitat, but loggers go out in the daytime to find the nocturnal gliders and say they can find none. Should the concerned community really being doing their job for them? While the Federal Environment Minister wants to see no extinctions on her watch and is running for re election, the greater glider is on the endangered list and its habitat is being logged in QLD and NSW. Should she really be allowed to get away with this?https://science.anu.edu.au/news-events/news/new-logging-rules-nsw-put-greater-glider-closer-extinction-when-will-we-startAnd in case you are wondering what saving the glider can do to buffer us against the worst of global heating:At UN Climate Change Conferences (COPs), forest protection is a key focus, with a strong emphasis on halting and reversing deforestation and forest degradation by 2030. These efforts are crucial for both climate mitigation and adaptation, as forests play a vital role in absorbing carbon dioxide and providing numerous ecosystem services.  We go to the Bob Brown Foundation"Protect our forests Rally" in Sydney on March 25th 2025.Speakers:Andrew Wong Forest Ecologist and operations manager from  Wilderness AustraliaIn recognition of his commitment to strategic thinking he has been asked to train campaigners in eight different countries. He was the Chair of the health promotion charity ‘Life. Be in it.' Australia 2019-2022. Susie Russell - Veteran Forest Campaigner(The Byron Echo October 2024)Veteran forest campaigner Susie Russell was arrested yesterday  in Bulga State Forest. She was the 12th arrest in the local community's campaign to protect the Bulga forest.Ms Russell had attached herself to the giant logging machinery until she was cut off.‘Every hour those machines don't work is 50 trees saved,' she said. ‘Our community will throw itself at the machines for as long as we can. We don't want to give up any chance to save this precious forest and the Greater Gliders and Koalas that live there.Susie Russell locked on in Bulga State Forest. Photo supplied.‘I have no doubt that our actions are on the right side of history.‘All the science, all the reports, all the experts, say that if we want to repair the damage to our planet, we need to start by not doing more damage. That is the most straightforward and cheapest way to make progress.‘Removing hundreds of thousands of trees from the top of the catchment is insanity,' said Ms Russell.‘The trees hold the land together. When the intense rain events come and the soil washes downstream, and the rivers silt up and the floods are extreme, no doubt those currently overseeing the destruction will wring their hands and lament.‘I am sickened at the inertia of the environment departments and their ministers, at state and federal level. They have no vision, and no appetite for action. They are keeping their seats warm while their support base evaporates and the damage intensifies.‘Those of us putting ourselves in arrestable situations trying to stop the carnage, would much rather be planting trees or running youth programs or removing weeds. Senator Mehreen Faruquihttps://www.instagram.com/mehreenfaruqi/reel/DHh61mHBAb_/ Coco - Ghanaian poet of Mother Earth and rap singer Sue Higginson - NSW Parliament-  Video:Shocking proof of greater glider bewildered in decimated foresthttps://www.netimes.com.au/2025/04/30/greens-call-for-end-to-logging-as-mogwai-threatened-near-glen-innes/*****************************************************************************Noelani Petero - No Music on a dead planet . Interview by Bella Jessonhttps://www.instagram.com/noelani_thefaceaustralia/?hl=en Headlines FOREST WIN IN HIGH COURThttps://bobbrown.org.au/forest-win-in-high-court/ Activists occupy Forestry Corp buildinghttps://www.echo.net.au/2025/04/activists-occupy-forestry-corp-building/ TAKE ACTION - Can you please write to Premier of NSW?- just fill in the form belowhttps://www.suehigginson.org/logging

Scott Tejerian welcomes Lise Richard, owner of Tofino Hot Sauce, as she shares her journey from environmental activist to culinary entrepreneur. With her Libra Rising, Virgo Sun, and Aries Moon, Lise reveals how her maritime Nova Scotia roots, diverse heritage, and deep connection to water have shaped her life path and business philosophy.From representing Canadian youth at UN climate conferences to launching a hot sauce company during COVID-19, Lise's story illustrates resilience, passion, and finding a balance between ambition and purpose. Scott provides astrological insights throughout, connecting Lise's planetary placements to her service orientation, entrepreneurial challenges, and Soul's Purpose. The conversation even explores Tofino Hot Sauce's own astrological chart, revealing how the business itself reflects Lise's journey and potential.(00:01:57) Introduction – Scott introduces Lise Richard, her astrological placements, and her entrepreneurial background.(00:04:06) Maritime Roots – Lise's upbringing in Nova Scotia and diverse cultural heritage.(00:07:59) Food Preservation – Family traditions of canning, pickling, and preserving.(00:11:46) Acadian History – The fascinating story of her ancestors and their connection to Cajun culture.(00:24:25) Environmental Focus– Lise's shift from nutritional science to environmental studies in college.(00:29:26) Climate Activism – Experiences as a youth delegate at UN climate conferences and confronting Canada's Environment Minister.(00:45:02) Environmental Disillusionment – Growing frustration with resistance to environmental change.(00:52:17) Hot Sauce Origins – Creating spicy options for a vegan bistro that evolved into a business.(01:01:53) Latin American Influence – Research and travel that informed her sauce development.(01:04:15) COVID Turning Point– How pandemic restrictions catalyzed her full commitment to entrepreneurship.(01:15:06) Business Challenges – The unexpected difficulties and subtle rewards of small business ownership.(01:23:12) Future Aspirations – The tension between scaling her business and spending more time in the ocean.(01:31:29) Astrological Insights – Scott explores Lise's North Node in Taurus and her journey toward balanced partnerships.(01:44:17) Ocean Connection – Lifelong bond with water and how it shapes her identity.(01:53:55) Near-Miss Experience – A harrowing New Year's Day surf incident and its transformative lessons.(02:03:30) Closing Thoughts – Final reflections and contact information.Find Lise at:Instagram: @tofinohotsauceWebsite: tofinohotsauce.cahttps://www.theweeklytransit.com/

In a Federal Court decision, the current government was proven to have violated the Constitution with their unscientific plastics ban as they failed to provide any evidence that this ban would benefit the environment or the health of Canadians. The Prime Minister and his Environment Minister, Steven Guilbeault, have been prioritizing banning plastic straws over […]

Good afternoon, I'm _____ with today's episode of EZ News. Tai-Ex opening The Tai-Ex opened down 26-points this morning from yesterday's close, at 23,263 on turnover of $5.5-billion N-T. The market lost ground on Wednesday - as early gains eroded as investor sentiment was spooked by concerns that America could introduce tariffs on semiconductors. Environment Minister confirms carbon cap trade regulations are under discussion Environment Minister Peng Chi-ming says his office has begun discussion regarding carbon cap trade regulations. According to Peng, the aim is to impose a stricter cap than the current self-determined reductions. Peng says his office will be inviting companies with a reputation (名聲) for excellence to work together and form an alliance to better implement any changes. The government has said the carbon fee system will take effect this year - meaning that imposed entities will have to pay their carbon fees according to their 2025 emissions in May of 2026. THSR Zuoying Station set passenger records in 2024 The Ministry of Transport says the number of High Speed Rail passengers hit a record high last year - and the number of passengers entering and exiting Zuoying Station in Kaohsiung both exceeded (超過) 10-million for the first time. According to the ministry, passenger volume on the High Speed Rail reached 78.25-million last year. This marks a 7-per cent increase from the previous year and highest in its 18 years of operations. The High Speed Rail's Taipei Station served the highest number of passengers. That was followed by Taichung Station, then Zuoying Station in third - with the number of passengers entering the station reaching 10.5-million and 10.4-million passengers leaving. Russia makes contact with Syria The Kremlin says Russian President Vladimir Putin has spoken to Syria's interim (過渡時期) leader, in the first such top-level contact since the fall of former Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. Mimmi Montgomery reports Australia Investigates After Nurse Claims to Have Killed Israelis An Australian hospital is examining its patient records after a nurse claimed online to have killed Israelis. Officials say there was no evidence of harm to patients. A police unit focusing on a surge in antisemitic crimes in Sydney since the Israel-Hamas war began in 2023 is investigating possible breaches (違規行為) of hate speech law. Two nurses who took part in an online discussion with an Israeli influencer on Tuesday during a night shift at Sydney's Bankstown Hospital were suspended on Wednesday. Authorities say they will never work for the state health department again. Brazil Defends Oil Exploration Near Mouth of Amazon Brazil's President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva is defending oil exploration near the mouth of the Amazon River as a way to finance a transition to green energy. As part of statements pressing the country's enviornmental regulator to approve the plan, Lula says new oil revenue (收入) could provide the funds for the change. The offshore area, Bloc 59, is located in the Equatorial Margin, about 160 kilometers from the coast. In 2023, Brazil's environmental regulator rejected a license, citing issues such as a weak wildlife protection plan in the event of an oil spill that could affect one of the world's most biodiverse regions. State-owned oil company Petrobras appealed and a decision is pending. That was the I.C.R.T. EZ News, I'm _____. －－－－以下訊息由 SoundOn 動態廣告贊助商提供－－－－

Elias Makos welcomes back Caroline Codsi, Founder & Chief Equity Officer, Women in Governance, and Andrew Caddell, a town councillor in Kamouraska, and President of the Task Force on Linguistic policy. Welcome to The Canadian War on Drugs. Conservative leader Pierre Poilievre says he would impose life sentences for trafficking over 40 mg of fentanyl Donald Trump's recent threats have unexpectedly boosted the Liberal brand in both Ottawa and Quebec, as Quebecers rally against the US president For years, Quebec has pushed back against proposals to build new oil and gas pipelines through its territory. But now, Quebec’s Environment Minister, Benoit Charette, says the provincial government is open to revisiting two major energy projects it previously rejected

Steven Guilbeault, Environment Minister; Bonnie Crombie, Ontario Liberal Leader; The Front Bench with: Saeed Selvam, Jamie Ellerton, Karl Bélanger & Hannah Thibedeau.

The Northern Ireland Executive has published its draft budget for 2025-26 and it's now open for public consultation. Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs is set to receive just over £715 million pounds, an increase of 3%. But no specific funding has been allocated to address serious pollution in Lough Neagh and Andrew Muir, the environment minister, says his department has only been awarded around a third of what he'd requested for day to day spending. He describes it as ‘a difficult budget'. Historic farm diaries provide a fascinating glimpse into agricultural, social and cultural life in years gone by. So curators at the Three Rivers Museum in Hertfordshire were excited to unearth a diary written in Victorian times by a farmer from Rickmansworth called John White. Masters students at the University of Hertfordshire have been scrutinising the diary entries to see if there's anything that John's observations from 150 years ago might teach farmers today. Rearing and selling turkeys for Christmas has become a major source of income for some family farms, including Cuckoo Mill Farm at Pelcomb Bridge, in Pembrokeshire. And at this time of year, it's a real family affair, with all hands on deck. Presented by Caz Graham and produced by Beatrice Fenton.

It's a sad reality that the Government simply refuses to accept Canada's energy sector as the country's single largest private sector investor in clean technologies. Canada's radical Environment Minister, Steven Guilbeault, has announced that he plans to make life even less affordable by attacking Canadian energy workers; placing a so-called “emissions cap” that will kill […]

Why the PM is tussling with his own Environment Minister, as the fate of Tasmanian salmon becomes their latest battleground.  Find out more about The Front podcast here. You can read about this story and more on The Australian's website or on The Australian's app. This episode of The Front is presented by Claire Harvey and edited by Lia Tsamoglou. Our music is composed by Jasper Leak, and our team includes Kristen Amiet, Tiffany Dimmack, Joshua Burton and Stephanie Coombes.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Steven Guilbeault, Environment Minister; Vic Fedeli, Ontario Trade Minister; The Front Bench with: Zita Astravas, James Moore, Tom Mulcair and Marieke Walsh.

Catherine McKenna, Former Environment Minister; Genevieve Beauchemin, CTV News & Jeff Keele, CTV News; Keir Giles, Chatham House Senior Fellow; The Front Bench with: Sabrina Grover, Melanie Paradis & Gurratan Singh.

Why does John Rustad want to reconsider nuclear power for B.C? GUEST: Barry Penner, Chair for the Energy Futures Initiative, former Attorney General and Environment Minister of B.C.  Does single egress stairs in residential buildings put fire safety at risk? GUEST: Len Garis is a retired Fire Chief for the City of Surrey, Adjunct Professor at the University of the Fraser Valley's school of Culture, Media, and Society China claps back on Canada's hefty EV, steel and aluminum tariffs GUEST: Vina Nadjibulla, Vice-President of Research & Strategy at the Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada How is Canada working to fend off China's ‘spamouflage' network? GUEST: Joanna Chiu, China editor at Rest of World, a non-profit publication covering global technology, and author of China Unbound How will international students fare with the government's 24-hour cap on working? GUEST: Ishant Goyal, Chairperson for the Alliance of British Columbia Students Petflation - how to budget for pet costs now and in the future GUEST: Rebeka Breder, Animal Rights Lawyer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

GUEST: Barry Penner, Chair for the Energy Futures Initiative, former Attorney General and Environment Minister of B.C. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There are further details on the Government's review of how Significant Natural Areas should be identified.  The scope's been decided and will look at how SNAs are assessed and the way land is managed.  A Bill was introduced in May that proposes to suspend requirements for councils to identify new SNAs and is expected to be in place by the end of the year.  Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard told Mike Hosking that final decisions based off the review will be made in mid-next year.   He hopes the SNAs only apply to where it's truly significant, and not just taking swathes of farmland.  LISTEN ABOVE See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A version of this essay has been published by firstpost.com at https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/climate-tragedy-of-wayanad-and-the-vulnerability-of-western-ghats-13808331.htmlAfter days of intense coverage of the landslides in Wayanad, the news cycle has moved on to other calamities. But the problems remain, and things cannot be left to benign neglect as is usually the case. For example there was a strange thundering noise from deep underground that alarmed people in the area. This is ominous, as it may presage a tectonic movement, although there have been no big quakes here for centuries.A dramatic before-and-after report from Reuters, using satellite images from Planet Labs, Google, Maxar Technologies and Airbus, shows how the landslide left a giant scar on the surface of the earth, washing away hundreds of houses, leading to widespread fatalities and destruction.Prime Minister Modi visited the afflicted area. Better governance, both by Center and State, is sorely needed to tackle the problem, because it is not simple: there are proximate, preponderant and root causes. A lot of it is anthropogenic based on local factors, but climate change is also a major factor, as the local climate and rainfall patterns have shifted dramatically in the recent past. There was a drought in 2015, followed by the Ockhi cyclone in 2017, and then landslides and floods in 2018 and 2019.As a resident of Kerala, who has visited Wayanad only twice (once in 2018 and the second time in April this year), both the problems and the possible solutions are of immediate importance to me, because the very same issues are likely to crop up all over the State, and unless remedial measures are taken now, we can expect further tragedies and endless suffering. Proximate Cause: Excess RainThe proximate cause is La Nina-enhanced rainfall, which has been higher this year along the west coast. In Wayanad itself, it rained 572mm in 48 hours before the landslide: about 1.8 feet, an enormous amount. Before the Wayanad landslide, there had been another in Shirur on the Karnataka coast near Ankola, where a number of people were swept away. The story of Arjun, a Kerala trucker whose truck full of lumber disappeared, was all over the news, and after a weeks-long search, there was no sign of him or the truck. The total rainfall since June 1 was of the order of 3000mm in Wayanad, which is unusually high, creating vulnerability to landslides. In a recent interview, environmental expert Madhav Gadgil mentioned that quarrying may have added to the intensity of the rainfall, because the fine dust from the mining and explosions forms aerosols, on which water molecules condense, leading to excessive precipitation. The intense rainfall saturated the soil, and in the absence of sufficient old-growth vegetation that might have held it together, the hillside simply collapsed. Preponderant Cause: Population Pressure, Over-Tourism, EcocideThe preponderant causes of the problems in Wayanad are obvious: population pressure, over-tourism and environmental destruction. The forest has basically ceased to exist due to human exploitation. According to India Today, 62% of the green cover in the district disappeared between 1950 and 2018 while plantation cover rose by around 1,800%. Fully 85% of the total area of Wayanad was under forest cover until the 1950s.Overpopulation, settlement and habitat lossMy first visit to Wayanad was in 2018, when we drove to Kerala from Karnataka: from the Nagarhole/Bandipur Wildlife Sanctuaries to the contiguous Wayanad Wildlife Sanctuary, all forming a Project Tiger ecosphere along with neighboring Mudumalai Wildlife Sanctuary in Tamil Nadu. Together they form the Nilgiri Biosphere Reserve. Bandipur/Nagarhole actually looks like a forest. But I was astonished when we drove into Wayanad, because it does not look like a forest any more: it is full of human habitation. It looks like any of the other districts in Kerala: thickly populated, with settlements all over the place. It appeared to be only notionally a wildlife sanctuary.Habitat loss, especially that of forest cover, is true of all of Kerala, as highlighted in a study by IISc scientists. It is startling to see how much of this has happened in just a few decades. But it is the culmination of a process that started at least a century ago. Wayanad, according to myth and legend, was once a lovely, lush forest inhabited by a small number of tribals. There were fierce Kurichya archers (it is possible they were warriors banished to the forest after losing a war) who, with Pazhassi Raja, carried on a guerilla war against the British colonials in the 19th century until the Raja was captured and executed. I visited the Pazhassi Museum in Mananthavady this May, on my second visit to Wayanad. There were artifacts there from the tribal settlements.Then, in the 20th century, there was a large migration of lowland people, mostly Christians from Central Travancore, to the Wayanad highlands (and the Western Ghats uplands in general). They encroached on public/forest lands, cleared the forests, and created plantations and agricultural settlements. Their struggles against malaria, wild animals and the land itself was the subject of Jnanpith winner S K Pottekkat's renowned novel Vishakanyaka (Poison Maiden).The public land thus captured eventually made some people rich, but the whole process also in effect enslaved the tribals, who became an exploited underclass: the very same story as of Native Americans, who are still struggling for social justice after centuries of being untermenschen.Since most of the settlers were Christians, the Church became a powerful spokesman for them. Successive governments gave a lot of the settlers title to the land they had illegally captured. So there is a class of rich planters, and on the other hand, miserable plantation workers, often migrants especially from Tamil Nadu. The green deserts need to be turned back into forestsKerala's highlands, over time, became ‘green deserts', rather than ‘tropical rainforests'. The monoculture of tea, rubber, coffee, and especially invasive species such as acacia and eucalyptus is destructive. They crowd out native species, ravage the water table, do not put down deep roots, and offer almost no sustenance to wild animals. It may look deceptively green, but it is no forest. An expert committee, the Madhav Gadgil Commission, recommended in 2011 that the entire Western Ghats was ecologically sensitive (ESA or Ecologically Sensitive Area) and 75% of it must be preserved intact with minimal human presence. The report was scathing about quarrying, including blasting with dynamite, which upset the already fragile ecosystem, ravaged as it was by the removal of old growth forest and the root system that held the soil together. At the time, Gadgil did say that the calamity would not take a 100 years, but it would happen in ten to twenty years. He was right, but he was ignored as though he were Cassandra. The Church opposed the Gadgil report tooth and nail, and the Government of Kerala pushed back on it. So the Central government created the Kasturirangan Commission (2013), which reduced the proposed ESA to 37%. It classified 60% of the Western Ghats as a ‘cultural landscape' with human settlements, plantations and agriculture. But that too was not acceptable. In fact, Jayanthi Natarajan claimed that she was forced to resign as Environment Minister because she actually notified the order on protection of the Western Ghats the day before she was removed. Her successor duly put the order on hold.Sitting Congress MP in nearby Idukki, P T Thomas, says he was dropped in the 2014 elections because he supported the Gadgil report against “encroachments… illegal constructions, quarrying, timber smuggling, sand mining from the rivers and ganja cultivation…My stand upset the Idukki dioceses of the Syro Malabar Catholic Church. The Idukki Bishop had openly opposed my candidature.”The GoK convened a third committee, the Oommen Commission (2014), which was specific to Kerala, and it recommended keeping all inhabited areas and plantations out of the ESA altogether. Mission accomplished. No more restrictions on land use.Over-tourism and carrying capacity of the landThis is one reason for the proliferation of resorts and homestays in Wayanad. Every second house caters to tourists, as can be seen from a Google Map (of the area around Kalpetta). The environmental pressure from this (what about solid waste disposal? Do they dump liquid wastes into rivers?) is horrific and increasing. Trash lines the area near the Thamarassery Pass.As a tourist myself, I did not choose a plantation resort, but instead a homestay which has a working farm. Perhaps I made a wrong choice, because a plantation has a lot of space to absorb the tourist impact. The homestay had many youngsters from Bangalore over the weekend, and it was perfectly nice, but I wonder how much I contributed to the human toll on the environment. I had gone to Wayanad to visit the Thirunelli temple and the Edakkal caves, which have petroglyphs and drawings reliably dated back to 8000 Before the Present, making them second only to the Bhimbetka caves in Madhya Pradesh, whose rock art dates back to 10,000 BP and earlier. So this area, despite the geological fault lines, has indeed been inhabited for a very long time. The carrying capacity of the land was sufficient in those prehistoric times and even up until recently; now the land can no longer sustain the population. It is also host to another recent influx. Muslims from nearby lowland Kozhikode and Malappuram districts have come up the Thamarassery Pass and settled in Wayanad in numbers. They have added to the population pressure in Wayanad. Incidentally this is one reason Wayanad Lok Sabha constituency (which includes areas from nearby Kozhikode and Malappuram districts that are heavily Muslim) is so dependably a Congress citadel. When I made my trip in April, just before elections, I asked several people who would win there: the candidates were Rahul Gandhi (Congress), Annie Raja (CPI), K Surendran (BJP). All of them said “Rahul Gandhi”. One man told me “Rahul Gandhi is going to become the PM”. Another laughed and said, “Are you joking? We all know the answer”. It was, pun intended, a landslide win for the Congress candidate. Root Cause: Geology and Errant RainfallThe root cause of the problems in Kerala is the increasingly unstable landscape. It is remarkable that Kerala has such a high number of landslides and vulnerable spots. India Today reports that Kerala has recorded the largest number of landslides in the country, 2,239 out of 3,782 that occurred between 2015 and 2022. The “Landslide Atlas of India 2023” from ISRO lists 13 out of 14 Kerala districts among the top 50 landslide-prone areas of the country.This is surprising, because the more obvious fault lines must be in the North, where the Indian Plate continues to grind up against the Eurasian Plate, and the Himalayas and the Tibetan Plateau continue to gain a few centimeters in elevation every year. Indeed Arunachal, Himachal, J&K and Uttarakhand are landslide-prone. But why Kerala, at the other end of the land-mass?It must be the case that there have been severe tectonic movements in Kerala in the past: the Parasurama legend of the land coming up from the sea is based on a real event, presumably caused by an earthquake in a prehistoric time frame. More recently, the thriving Kerala port of Kodungalloor (aka Muziris), the principal West Coast port in historical times along with Bharuccha in Gujarat, was suddenly rendered bereft in 1341 CE after a severe flood in the River Periyar, and port activities shifted to nearby Kochi.More recently, old-timers talk about the Great Flood of ‘99, i.e. 1099 Malabar Era, or 1924 CE. Exactly 100 years ago there were torrential rains in July, and records suggest it was 3368mm or 1326 inches over three weeks, that is 11 feet of rain. Floodwaters rose up to 6 feet, rivers changed course, and at least 1,000 people died along with large numbers of livestock, and there was massive destruction of agricultural land and foodgrains. The Flood of ‘99 became etched in the collective memory of the area, but it mostly affected the lowland areas of Travancore and Cochin, leaving the highlands largely untouched. That has changed with deforestation, quarrying, construction, and denudation of hillsides.There were the floods of 2018, which affected the hills, especially in Munnar. A full mountainside fell 300 meters into a river there. Entire settlements were washed away. A total of 2,346mm of rain or 923 inches was recorded in July and August, almost 50% higher than the norm. 483 people were killed, with many more missing and unaccounted for. Infrastructure was wiped out, including roads and clean water supply. Dams had to be opened, wreaking havoc on those downstream. There is also the perennial threat of Mullaperiyar Dam overflowing or being breached, which is, among other things, a source of friction between Kerala and Tamil Nadu. Other root causes include the following: * Climate Change: A study by the World Weather Attribution group indicated that climate change has intensified rainfall in the region by about 10%, contributing significantly to the severity of the disaster. The ongoing increase in global temperatures has led to more extreme weather patterns, including heavier monsoon rains.* Soil Characteristics: Wayanad's soils are loose and erodible, particularly in areas with steep gradients exceeding 20 degrees. When saturated, these soils lose their structural integrity, making them susceptible to landslides. The presence of large boulders and mud further complicates the stability of the slopes during heavy rains.* Soil piping: Previous landslides in the region, such as the 2019 Puthumala event, created conditions for soil piping, where voids form in the subsurface soil, increasing the risk of subsequent landslides during heavy rainfall.* Lack of Effective Land Management Policies: There is a notable absence of comprehensive land use and disaster management policies in Kerala, particularly in ecologically fragile areas. Despite previous disasters, there has been insufficient progress in implementing hazard mapping and community awareness programs to mitigate risks associated with landslides.Thus Kerala is vulnerable to a host of issues, especially climate change (which is also eating away at the coastline). Behind the tropical paradise facade of “God's Own Country”, there lie tremendous dangers related to excessive human exploitation, amounting to ecocide. What is the solution? Maybe Madhav Gadgil was right, after all, and strict controls should be imposed on human activity, especially denudation of forest, and quarrying. His report had included Vythiri, Mananthavady and Sulthanbathery taluks in Wayanad as Ecologically Sensitive Zone ESZ-1, which means no change whatsoever in land use is permissible there. Chooralmala, Mundakkai, and Meppadi, where the worst of the disasters happened, are all in Vythiri taluk. No effective disaster prevention or mitigation efforts have been put in place. The only solution is reforesting and restoring green cover, and stopping construction, quarrying, and tourism and the most contentious issue, relocating people away from the ESZ. Unfortunately the tropical rainforest may not restore itself if simply left alone (as temperate-zone forests do), and perhaps efforts such as Miyawaki foresting with native species may need to be pursued.It is to be hoped that we have not passed the point of no return. Kerala's population is shrinking (Total Fertility Rate is 1.80, well below the replacement rate of 2.1 children per woman), but there is no limit to human greed.What needs to be done There are no magic solutions, but comprehensive climate action and improved disaster management strategies can mitigate things to an extent. Experts emphasize the importance of:* Enhanced Communication and Coordination: There is a critical need for better intergovernmental communication regarding disaster preparedness. This includes timely warnings and efficient evacuation plans to mitigate the impact of natural disasters.* Land Use Policies: Implementing stringent land use regulations is essential to prevent construction in ecologically sensitive areas. The degradation of green cover due to unregulated development has significantly increased the risk of landslides.* Early Warning Systems: Developing robust early warning systems for landslides and floods can provide crucial alerts to communities at risk. These systems should be supported by regular community education and drills to ensure residents are prepared for emergencies.* Afforestation and Environmental Conservation: Massive afforestation and reforestation drives (especially with native species) are necessary to stabilize hillsides and reduce landslide risks. Protecting and restoring natural habitats can help mitigate the effects of climate change and enhance biodiversity. Collaborating with local communities for reforestation projects can also provide economic incentives and foster a sense of stewardship.* Community Engagement: Empowering local communities to participate in disaster preparedness and environmental conservation efforts is vital. Education on risks and proactive measures can significantly reduce the impact of disasters.* Tourism Management: Over-tourism can exacerbate environmental degradation. Developing a sustainable tourism strategy that limits visitor numbers, promotes eco-friendly practices, and educates tourists about environmental conservation is essential. Establishing eco-tourism zones and supporting community-based tourism initiatives can provide economic benefits while preserving the natural environment.* Regulation of Quarrying and Construction: Strict regulation and monitoring of quarrying and construction activities are necessary to prevent ecological damage. Implementing sustainable practices in these industries, such as controlled quarrying methods and responsible waste management, can mitigate their impact on the environment. Regular audits and penalties for non-compliance can enforce these regulations.* Surveillance and meteorological data collection: With modern technology like drones, continuous monitoring of the landscape is possible at a relatively low cost; and this can also be used for collecting large amounts of meteorological data to support early-warning systems. Satellite images from India's own as well as foreign sources can be used to warn of dangerous construction, quarrying, and loss of forest cover. Some of these are purely technical solutions, offering computerized forecasts and disaster warnings. The social and governance aspects are even more important: discipline, co-operation and awareness on the part of the residents, and the strict enforcement of land use rules and regulations. Dealing with powerful settlers, encroachers, and vested interests requires a delicate balance of enforcement and negotiation, carrot and stick. Government agencies, non-governmental organizations (NGOs), and local communities must collaborate to develop and implement policies that address these challenges. Advocacy for stronger environmental laws and community involvement in decision-making processes can help align interests and foster co-operation.With all these in place, it may be possible to repair the damaged hills of the Western Ghats, one of the global hotspots of biodiversity. 2200 words, Aug 17, 2024 updated 3000 words, Aug 19 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit rajeevsrinivasan.substack.com

Protecting the environment and promoting circular economy are important issues in Taiwan, particularly with the growing threat of climate change. To address this concern, the government elevated the Environment Protection Agency, making it a ministry… and in May this year, one of Taiwan's most noted weathermen and climate researchers took the helm. Environment Minister Peng Chi-ming goes in depth about the challenges facing Taiwan in this special edition of Taiwan Talk. Hosted by Tim Berge. -- Hosting provided by SoundOn

The rise of surge pricing - where could it strike next? GUEST: David Moscrop, Contributing Columnist with the Globe and Mail and the Washington Post, host of Open to Debate podcast, author, and researcher Why is B.C.'s program to provide affordable housing plagued with delays and high rents? GUEST: Tom Davidoff, Director of UBC's Centre for Urban Economics and Real Estate Will British Columbians finally make the leap to solar powered homes? GUEST: Dr. Kevin McLeod, Internal Medicine specialist at Lions Gate Hospital in North Vancouver, and Whitehorse Hospital in the Yukon Territory. Recently made the switch to a solar powered home Are B.C Hydro's energy conservation programs worth it? GUEST: Barry Penner, Chair for the Energy Futures Initiative, former Attorney General and Environment Minister of B.C. Olympic Wrap-Up - How did Team Canada do? GUEST: Rob Fai, Weekends Mornings on CKNW host and longtime sportscaster Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

GUEST: Barry Penner, Chair for the Energy Futures Initiative, former Attorney General and Environment Minister of B.C. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Government is sticking to its current timeline for suspending the establishment of Significant Natural Areas. It's set to legislate on its pre-election promise to do so in the coming months. Grey District Mayor Tania Gibson is trying to delay a costly re-mapping process on the West Coast that could restrict land use for up to 90 percent of the region - until the legislation has passed. Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard says in the meantime, the West Coast Regional Policy Statement will have to follow the previous Government's policy. "And I'll just re-emphasise that we are intending to make changes to that NPS, that work's going to be done very shortly." LISTEN ABOVE  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The farmer lobby group says the parties reached an agreement not to pursue their court case over carbon capture and storage in the Great Artesian Basin. 

GUEST: Barry Penner, Chair for the Energy Futures Initiative, former Attorney General and Environment Minister of B.C. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The impact of Donald Trump's assassination on B.C and Canadian politics GUEST: Mario Canseco, President of the Research Co. Polling Company Prime Day - How Amazon gears up for their biggest event of the year  GUEST: Darkhan Urmurzin, senior operations manager at Amazon The fallout from Donald Trump's attempted assassination GUEST: Allan Lichtman, distinguished professor of History at American University in Washington, DC Has climate change turned B.C Hydro into a power importer? GUEST: Barry Penner, Chair for the Energy Futures Initiative, former Attorney General and Environment Minister of B.C. The hidden history of B.C's Sunshine Coast GUEST: Howard White, author of The Sunshine Coast: From Gibsons to Powell River B.C enhances transparency in information for international students GUEST: Ravi Parrar, B.C's Parliamentary Secretary for International Credentials Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

B.C's scorching heat drives demand for cooling through the roof GUEST: Barry Penner, Chair for the Energy Futures Initiative, former Attorney General and Environment Minister of B.C. B.C Lions update GUEST: Duane Vienneau, President of the B.C Lions The Week That Was in BC Politics GUEST: Keith Baldrey, Global BC Legislative Bureau Chief Box office bomb: Kevin Costner's Horizon sequel dumped  GUEST: Rick Forchuk, TV Week Magazine columnist and CKNW contributor Former White House policy advisor slams Dr. Bonnie Henry's drug legalization report GUEST: Dr. Kevin Sabet, former White House drug policy advisor to Republican and Democratic U.S Presidents The Wrap - Should George Clooney replace Joe Biden as President of the U.S & Should e-riders have to be licensed to drive?  Guest: Leah Holiove, TV Reporter and Radio Host GUEST: Sarah Daniels, real estate agent in South Surrey; author and broadcaster Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

GUEST: Barry Penner, Chair for the Energy Futures Initiative, former Attorney General and Environment Minister of B.C. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Eamon Ryan has confirmed he is stepping down as leader of the Green Party. His decision comes after the Greens lost both their seats in the European Parliament in the recent elections and although they did slightly better than expected in the locals, they still didn't fare that well, losing half their seats. The Environment Minister announced the news after Tuesday morning's Cabinet meeting. To assess what this means for Eamon Ryan, the Green Party and the Government, Alan Morrissey was joined by Green Party Senator, Roisín Garvey, and Fianna Fáil TD, Cathal Crowe. Picture (c): Eamon Ryan via greenparty.ie

Richard Wagner, Supreme Court Chief Justice; Steven Guilbeault, Environment Minister; The Front Bench with: Dan Moulton, Rudy Husny, Kathleen Monk & Laura Stone.

Andrew Lewin delves into the controversial topic of shark nets in Australia. While these nets are intended to protect beachgoers from certain shark species, they also harm non-targeted marine animals like sea turtles and dolphins. The discussion revolves around the effectiveness of shark nets in ensuring beach safety and the impact on ocean species. Join the conversation to learn more about the balance between human safety and marine conservation efforts. Link to article: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/apr/30/more-than-90-of-marine-animals-caught-in-nsw-shark-nets-over-summer-were-non-target-species Follow a career in conservation: https://www.conservation-careers.com/online-training/ Use the code SUFB to get 33% off courses and the careers program.   Sign up for our Newsletter: http://www.speakupforblue.com/newsletter   Facebook Group: https://bit.ly/3NmYvsI Connect with Speak Up For Blue: Website: https://bit.ly/3fOF3Wf Instagram: https://bit.ly/3rIaJSG TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@speakupforblue Twitter: https://bit.ly/3rHZxpc YouTube: www.speakupforblue.com/youtube One of the key issues discussed in the podcast episode is the high rate of non-target species caught by shark nets in Australia. These nets, designed to prevent shark attacks on beachgoers, have caused significant harm to marine animals, including sea turtles, dolphins, and smaller sharks. The transcript reveals that more than half of the non-target species caught in the nets over the past eight months were killed, with 134 dead animals recorded. Among the casualties were critically endangered gray nurse sharks, endangered leatherback sea turtles, and loggerhead turtles. Data from the Humane Society International showed that out of all non-target animals caught, only 36% were released alive. Releasing non-target species from the nets is challenging, as animals like sea turtles and dolphins require air to breathe and may drown if not promptly freed. The issue of bycatch is worsened by the fact that the shark nets have a 12 to 1 ratio of non-target to target species caught, indicating a disproportionate impact on non-target marine animals. The harm inflicted on these non-target species by shark nets raises concerns about the effectiveness and ethical implications of using such methods for shark control. The podcast episode stresses the need to reassess shark net programs in Australia and explore alternative technologies to mitigate negative impacts on marine biodiversity. The discussion underscores the importance of considering the broader ecological consequences of shark netting practices and the urgency of finding more sustainable and species-specific solutions to protect both beachgoers and marine wildlife. A key point highlighted in the podcast episode is the lack of scientific evidence supporting the effectiveness of shark nets in reducing the risk of shark bites. Despite the installation of shark nets in Australia to prevent certain shark species from entering popular beaches, there is controversy surrounding their actual efficacy. The host mentions that shark scientists, based on their research and discussions within the shark science community, have not come across any scientific studies that definitively prove the effectiveness of shark nets in reducing the risk of shark bites. This lack of concrete evidence raises questions about the justification for using shark nets as a method of protecting beachgoers. Furthermore, a recent study mentioned in the episode revealed concerning statistics regarding the impact of shark nets on marine animals. More than 90% of the marine animals caught in shark nets off New South Wales beaches were non-target species, including sea turtles, dolphins, and smaller sharks. The data showed that a significant number of these non-target animals were killed as a result of being caught in the nets. The high percentage of non-target species caught and killed in shark nets raises ethical and conservation concerns. The bycatch of endangered species such as gray nurse sharks, leatherback sea turtles, and loggerhead turtles underscores the detrimental effects of shark nets on marine biodiversity. The episode also discusses the internal division within the Australian government regarding the shark net program. While some departments acknowledge the unavoidable nature of bycatch in shark nets, others, including the Environment Minister, have privately expressed support for ending the use of shark nets. This internal debate reflects the growing recognition of the negative consequences associated with shark nets. In conclusion, the lack of scientific evidence supporting the effectiveness of shark nets, coupled with the significant impact on non-target marine species, highlights the need for a reevaluation of shark net programs. The episode emphasizes the importance of considering alternative technologies and conservation strategies to protect both beachgoers and marine biodiversity effectively. The Minister of Environment in Australia, Penny Sharp, has privately voiced her support for ending the use of shark nets, a controversial issue that has sparked debate among advocates and government officials. Despite her private stance on the matter, Sharp has not publicly expressed her support for removing the shark nets, leading to frustration among conservationists and environmental groups. The debate surrounding the effectiveness and ethical implications of shark nets has been ongoing, with concerns raised about the high number of non-target species, such as sea turtles, dolphins, and smaller sharks, that are caught and killed in the nets. A recent study revealed that more than 90% of marine animals caught in shark nets off New South Wales beaches were non-target species, including critically endangered gray nurse sharks and endangered sea turtles. Advocates like Andre Burrell from the Envoy Foundation have called for more transparency and public engagement on the issue, emphasizing the need for government officials, including the Minister of Environment, to take a more active role in addressing the concerns surrounding shark nets. Burrell highlighted the importance of public advocacy and government leadership in moving towards alternative technologies or strategies to protect beachgoers while minimizing harm to marine wildlife. The Minister of Environment's private support for ending the use of shark nets underscores the complexity of the issue and the need for a comprehensive review of current shark management practices. By openly addressing the concerns raised by conservationists and considering alternative approaches to shark mitigation, the Australian government can work towards a more sustainable and effective solution that balances the safety of beachgoers with the protection of marine biodiversity.  

Flavio Volpe, Automotive Parts Manufacturers Association & David Adams, Global Automakers of Canada; Steven Guilbeault, Environment Minister; The Front Bench with: Sabrina Grover, Shakir Chambers, Kathleen Monk & Laura Stone 

Is Mike nuts? This week's MoneyTalks is all about housing and having an "adult conversation" about immigration with Aaron Wudrick, Director of Domestic Policy Program at the MacDonald-Laurier Institute. Don't miss the latest "Goofy" from Canada's Environment Minister. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The West African bloc ECOWAS deadline for Niger's coup leaders to reinstate the democratically elected President has passed with no change. So what's ECOWAS going to do about it? And what do people in Niger want? Also in the programme: Brazil's Environment Minister tells us it's now or never to save the Amazon rainforest ahead of President Lula's summit. And as scientists in California repeat their nuclear fusion success, is it really "the holy grail" of green power?