Podcasts about International Energy Agency

REVIEW Michael Bernstam of the Hoover Institution analyzes the impact of sanctions on Russia, whose economy is hurt by cheap oil prices. The International Energy Agency forecasts a significant oil glut of 2 to 4 million barrels per day surplus in 2025 and 2026. This, along with US deregulation, means cheaper oil, potentially causing Russia to stumble into a deep recession. Guest: MichaelBernstam.

Around the globe, and here in the United States, energy markets face huge uncertainties. They include everything from rising geopolitical tensions to a wave of new liquefied natural gas supply, and from concentrated critical mineral supply chains to growing demand for electricity. These uncertainties are reflected by the International Energy Agency in this year's World Energy Outlook, which explores a range of possible energy futures — particularly around oil and gas demand.  So how have energy policies at the country level, growing economic warfare, and rising prices impacted the IEA's outlook? How should we understand the role of energy security and geopolitical risk? Here in the US, how have energy policy shifts impacted the outlook? And what role do the transition to electric mobility and the pace of energy innovation play? This week, Jason Bordoff talks to Tim Gould about this year's World Energy Outlook, the IEA's flagship annual report. It projects a world with as much as 3 degrees of warming by 2100, under current policies, or with as little as 1.5 degrees of warming by 2100 if global energy systems quickly decarbonize. Tim is the International Energy Agency's chief energy economist. As part of this role, he co-leads the World Energy Outlook. Tim joined the IEA in 2008 as a specialist on Russian and Caspian energy. Before joining the agency, Tim worked on European and Eurasian energy issues in Brussels. Credits: Hosted by Jason Bordoff and Bill Loveless. Produced by Mary Catherine O'Connor, Caroline Pitman, and Kyu Lee. Engineering by Gregory Vilfranc.  

Global stocks and shares have plunged for the fourth day in a row. The markets are falling as worries about AI valuations, the US economy and central bank rates hit sentiment.What happens if the AI bubble burst? We hear from the boss of Google in an exclusive BBC interview.What's next for the global car industry? Next year, one in four global car sales will be electric, that's according to a report by the International Energy Agency.A court in France will rule today if Perrier bottles will be forced to remove their bottles from shelves.And in the UK, selling tickets for a profit could be banned.Presenter: Leanna Byrne Producer: Niamh Mc Dermott Editor: Justin Bones

The International Energy Agency is out with its 2025 World Energy Outlook report and has brought its Current Policy Scenario section back with it. In recent years, the GOP has complained about the omission of the Current Policy Scenario analyzing future energy trends based on enacted laws and measures. POLITICO's James Bikales breaks down the report and why its predictions about a natural gas glut are causing such a buzz. Plus, Pennsylvania governor Josh Shapiro decides to pull out of the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative in the state's newly passed budget.  Josh Siegel⁠⁠ is an energy reporter for POLITICO and the host of POLITICO Energy.  James Bikales is a reporter for POLITICO. ⁠⁠Nirmal Mulaikal⁠⁠ is the co-host and producer of POLITICO Energy.   ⁠Kara Tabor⁠ is an audio producer for POLITICO.  ⁠⁠Ben Lefebvre⁠⁠ is the deputy energy editor at POLITICO.  ⁠⁠Matt Daily⁠⁠ is the energy editor for POLITICO.  For more news on energy and the environment, subscribe to Power Switch, our free evening newsletter: ⁠⁠https://www.politico.com/power-switch⁠⁠  And for even deeper coverage and analysis, read our Morning Energy newsletter by subscribing to POLITICO Pro: ⁠⁠https://subscriber.politicopro.com/newsletter-archive/morning-energy⁠⁠  Our theme music is by Pran Bandi.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kevin covered the following stories: Has Noah's Ark finally been found?; Phil Flynn's Energy Report discusses the International Energy Agency's (IEA) ridiculous prediction of peak oil demand and the Climmunist's gathering in Brazil called Conference of the Parties 30 (COP 30) Climate Change Conference; Hurricane Specialist Bryan Norcross assesses the 2025 Hurricane Season; Kevin has the details, sifts through the data, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and opinions. 

Kevin covered the following stories: Has Noah's Ark finally been found?; Phil Flynn's Energy Report discusses the International Energy Agency's (IEA) ridiculous prediction of peak oil demand and the Climmunist's gathering in Brazil called Conference of the Parties 30 (COP 30) Climate Change Conference; Hurricane Specialist Bryan Norcross assesses the 2025 Hurricane Season; Kevin has the details, sifts through the data, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and opinions. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Kevin covered the following stories: Has Noah's Ark finally been found?; Phil Flynn's Energy Report discusses the International Energy Agency's (IEA) ridiculous prediction of peak oil demand and the Climmunist's gathering in Brazil called Conference of the Parties 30 (COP 30) Climate Change Conference; Hurricane Specialist Bryan Norcross assesses the 2025 Hurricane Season; Kevin has the details, sifts through the data, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and opinions. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The International Energy Agency says global oil and gas demand will rise for the next 25 years if the world does not change course; Masayoshi Son's SoftBank Group has sold its entire stake in Nvidia; and investors have been selling off the debt of US tech heavyweights. Plus, Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni's plan to reduce income taxes for the “middle-class” has sparked criticism that she is helping the rich.Mentioned in this podcast:Oil and gas demand to rise for 25 years without global change of course, says IEAWhy Nvidia should be glad to see the back of SoftBankSoftBank sells Nvidia stake for $5.8bn as it prepares for AI investmentsInvestor angst over Big Tech's AI spending spills into bond marketGiorgia Meloni's ‘middle-class' tax cut sparks political row in ItalyToday's FT News Briefing was produced by Victoria Craig, Lulu Smyth and Sonja Hutson. Our show was mixed by Kelly Garry. Additional help from Gavin Kallmann. The FT's acting co-head of audio is Topher Forhecz. The show's theme music is by Metaphor Music. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On Episode 724 of The Core Report, financial journalist Govindraj Ethiraj talks to Pooja Vijay Ramamurthi, Fellow at Centre for Social and Economic Progress (CSEP) as well as Madhavi Arora, Lead Economist at Emkay Global Financial Services.SHOW NOTES(00:00) The Take(06:17) Markets perk up on trade signals(07:02) Inflation hits record low, what does that mean?(14:57) COP30 kicks off in Brazil. What's at stake this time?(23:58) International Energy Agency now says electric vehicle sales could slow down and fossil fuel consumption will rise, in a reversal of sortsRegister for the 3rd Edition of the Algorand India Summit https://algorand.co/india-summit-2025For more of our coverage check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠thecore.in⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to our Newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow us on:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Linkedin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ |⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Youtube⁠⁠

《联合国气候变化框架公约》第30次缔约方会议（COP30）于11月10日在巴西贝伦开幕。这是一次肩负众望的气候大会——《巴黎协定》达成十周年，COP能否从规则的谈判转向承诺的落实，国际社会将会怎样开启气候行动的下一个十年，让我们持续关注。本期节目中，我们邀请到三位《不成气候No Such Climate》的实习研究员，请她们分享各自在COP30上最关心的议题。也欢迎在评论区和我们分享你的COP30看点。【本期剧透】00:26 COP30面临的复杂挑战02:52 张汀果：首个气候临界点已经突破，海洋必须置于气候讨论的前沿10:38 郭文芬：主场亚马逊，气候、自然与土著人民议题交织23:57 李聆溪：清洁炉灶作为一种碳交易机制【延伸阅读】COP30前瞻对话地球：COP30前瞻：全球气候大会有哪些看点？https://dialogue.earth/zh/3/60108380/北京绿研公益发展中心：绿研观察丨展望COP30： 走向2035新十年,提振雄心直面现实https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/NVXOvi1TO2sR44vwWur4AQ澎湃：前瞻｜从巴黎到贝伦：COP30能否成为气候行动2.0的起点？https://www.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_31830220海洋相关https://www.unsw.edu.au/news/2025/05/ocean-based-climate-actions--in-ndcs-nbsaps-analysishttps://cop30.br/en/news-about-cop30/oceans-must-be-at-the-forefront-of-climate-discussions-said-ana-toni-ceo-of-cop30https://unfccc.int/news/ocean-dialogue-calls-on-parties-to-strengthen-ocean-based-action-in-national-climate-goals-and-planshttps://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/uFxGA24MNGJvy0M-SpHJ0Ahttps://global-tipping-points.org/热带雨林相关https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/G6D7A-02M2tyXphOBiOyCAhttps://www.gov.br/planaltointeligente/en/follow-the-government/speeches-statements/speech-by-president-lula-at-the-opening-of-the-tropical-forests-forever-facility-meetinghttp://thjj.thjj.org/coohome/coserver.aspx?uid=5A7D0669B13D448484AD20EB008A204D&aid=0F51CB90F44C45648948924680B587D6&clid=9&t=75https://dialogue.earth/zh/6/60080701/https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/mt6jC_qcgK-3UCfTOI-GAQhttps://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-025-63156-0https://www.sp-amazon.org/publications/#ar2021https://eng-ar21.sp-amazon.org/220717_SPA%20Executive%20Summary%202021%20(English).pdfhttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06970-0清洁炉灶相关World Health Organization, Household Air Pollution and Health: Fact Sheet, Geneva, 2024, pp.1–6.International Energy Agency, Tracking SDG7: The Energy Progress Report (Clean Cooking Chapter), Paris, 2024, pp.45–62.IPCC, AR6 Working Group I: Short-Lived Climate Forcers (Black Carbon) – Chapter 6, Geneva, 2021, pp.6-1–6-75.UNFCCC, Guidance on Article 6.2: Reporting and Corresponding Adjustments (Reference Manual), Bonn, 2024, pp.1–48.Integrity Council for the Voluntary Carbon Market, Core Carbon Principles & Assessment Framework (Cookstove Updates), London, 2025, pp.1–30.Verra, VM0050: Methodology for Improved Cookstoves and Fuel Switching, Washington, D.C., 2024, pp.1–120.The Lancet Global Health, Maternal and Child Health Series, London, 2021, p.88.生态环境部, 《中国应对气候变化的政策与行动年度报告 2024》, 北京, 2024, p1–p200.国家统计局, 《中国统计年鉴 2024》, 北京, 2024, 能源与环境篇.国家卫生健康委员会, 《中国卫生健康统计年鉴 2023》, 北京, 2023.国家标准化管理委员会, 《GB/T 18883—2022 室内空气质量标准》, 北京, 2022, pp.1–36.中国气候变化事务工作领导小组办公室, 《落实〈巴黎协定〉国家自主贡献进展报告（摘要）》, 北京, 2023, pp.1–40.联合国开发计划署中国, 《中国可持续能源与清洁烹饪实践案例集（中文版）》, 北京, 2022, pp.1–60.中国环境科学研究院（编）, 《黑碳及短寿命气候污染物控制策略研究（专题汇编）》, 北京, 2021, pp.1–120.【创作团队】策划：何弦、乐园、科莱美特气候共学营营员（张汀果、郭文芬、李聆溪）主持：乐园、科莱美特气候共学营营员（张汀果、郭文芬、李聆溪）后期：科莱美特气候共学营营员（张汀果、郭文芬、李聆溪）《不成气候No Such Climate》是一档广泛地关注气候变化、空气污染等大气科学议题与时事热点、社会生活的相交点的播客。 【收听方式】欢迎通过苹果播客、小宇宙、Spotify、Pocket Casts等泛用型播客客户端订阅我们的节目。我们也会在喜马拉雅、荔枝播客、网易云音乐、QQ音乐等平台同步更新。【联系我们】小红书@不成气候NoSuchClimate微信公众号 不成气候No Such Climatenosuchclimate@gmail.com

Making Money Minute with Ron Hiebert - Depletion If you have ever spent any time running on a treadmill, you have an appreciation for how difficult it is to manage an oil and gas company. It takes focussed effort to not go backward. The hidden enemy is depletion. Each year the reserves you have become less and less. This requires continual exploration and development. The amount of spend needed to remain stationary is enormous. The International Energy Agency believes the world needs to invest $540 Billion a year looking for oil, to maintain, not grow, current output over the next 35 years. In the energy business - if you snooze you lose.

Shoot us a Text.Episode #1181: Today we're talking about an EV market hitting the brakes post–tax credit, why most electric drivers are just fine charging at home, and Amazon's billion-dollar bet on future jobs—while cutting tens of thousands of its own.Show Notes with links:The EV market is undergoing a “recalibration” following the end of the federal $7,500 tax credit. J.D. Power says October electric vehicle deliveries are expected to drop 43% from last year, taking EV market share from 8.5% down to just 5.2%.The September “last call” for the credit pushed EV share to nearly 13%, creating a hangover in October sales.Gasoline models now account for nearly 80% of retail sales, while hybrids jumped two full points to 14%J.D. Power's Tyson Jominy. “The recent EV market correction underscores a critical lesson: Consumers prefer having access to a range of powertrain options.”Do you imagine EV drivers are circling parking lots hunting for chargers? Think again. About 80% of all EV charging happens right at home — quietly, conveniently, and far cheaper than fueling up at a gas pump.The International Energy Agency reports 83% of EV charging in the U.S. and 80% in Canada happens at home.J.D. Power's EV Experience Study shows drivers rate home charging satisfaction at 85/100 versus just 50/100 for public chargers.“Home charging remains the single biggest advantage of owning an EV,” said Brent Gruber, executive director of EV practice at J.D. Power.Amazon is sending a mixed message to the labor market this week. The tech giant is investing billions to train millions for the “future of work” — while preparing to lay off tens of thousands of its own.The company launched Future Ready 2030, a $2.5 billion initiative aimed at training 50 million employees, students, and job seekers worldwide.At the same time, Amazon is reportedly cutting up to 30,000 corporate jobs, about 10% of its white-collar workforce — its largest round of layoffs since 2022.“Whether someone dreams of working at Amazon, works here now, or has moved on to their next chapter, our goal is the same: helping them have access to the education and training needed to thrive in whatever comes next,” said Beth Galetti, Amazon's SVP of People Experience and Technology.0:00 Intro with Paul J Daly and Kyle Mountsier0:15 Paul's hat from Kazakhstan2:05 Upcoming ASOTU Edge Webinar with foureyes on Nov. 53:00 EV Market Hits Recalibration in October6:17 83% of American EV Drivers Charge At Home9:42 Amazon Invests $2.5B In Training, Cuts 30K White-Collar JobsJoin Paul J Daly and Kyle Mountsier every morning for the Automotive State of the Union podcast as they connect the dots across car dealerships, retail trends, emerging tech like AI, and cultural shifts—bringing clarity, speed, and people-first insight to automotive leaders navigating a rapidly changing industry.Get the Daily Push Back email at https://www.asotu.com/ JOIN the conversation on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/company/asotu/

Allen, Rosemary, and Yolanda discuss the IEA's 27% cut to offshore wind forecasts, GE's wind financials, and Ming Yang's revolutionary 50MW dual-rotor turbine. Register for the next SkySpecs Webinar! Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! You are listening to the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast brought to you by build turbines.com. Learn, train, and be a part of the Clean Energy Revolution. Visit build turbines.com today. Now here's your hosts, Allen Hall, Joel Saxon, Phil Totaro, and Rosemary Barnes.  Allen Hall: Welcome to the Uptime Wintery Podcast. I'm your host, Allen Hall in the Queen city of Charlotte, North Carolina. Rosemary's in Australia on her way to Sydney and Yolanda Padrone is here on site at a wind farm in Texas and there has been a, a number of news articles this week. Joel's over actually in Copenhagen enjoying, uh, the sites and sounds of that great city, the International Energy Agency slash its five year offshore wind growth forecast by. Are you ready for this? 27% citing policy shifts, obviously in the United States and [00:01:00] project cancellations across Europe and Asia. The big one in Asia is the Japan's Mitsubishi pulling out a couple of projects there when costs, um, more than doubled according to them. And Denmark is changing from, uh, negative bidding auctions in favor of contracts for different, so there has been a, a big pullback in offshore wind. It's not zero, you know, it's not going to zero at any time. I think there's just a lot of projects that appear to be reassessing the interest rate environments, the ability to get turbines, the cost of ships, everything. And rosemary in Australia, it does seem like there's been a little bit of a pullback there too for offshore wind. Uh,  Rosemary Barnes: yeah. I mean it's, it's hard 'cause we're still like in such a, just a nascent part of the. Industry. It's still really far from clear whether we need or are going to get any offshore wind at all. Victoria has some pretty solid commitments to it. The government [00:02:00] does so. That's probably as close as, um, anything to being certain that we'll get some offshore wind. But, um, probably we've all learned, America has shown us that a political com commitment is not as, you know, a government commitment is not as locked in as what we probably would've thought it would mean, um, a few years ago. So, yeah, we'll see. I think Australia is struggling like the rest of the world. We're struggling a bit just in general with getting projects to, um, FID and. You know, getting construction actually underway and offshore wind is just like, you know, the same problems but on steroids. So it's no surprise that you'd be seeing more challenges there. There's been a few projects that have, um, been canceled or paused, but you know, they weren't at the point where there were definitely going ahead. So it's, you know, like there's a huge pipeline that makes almost no sense for how many projects there are in planning. Obviously some of them are going to [00:03:00] not go ahead, probably most of them. Um, and yeah, so we'll, we'll probably see many more cancellations and I think we'll see at least a few offshore wind farms and probably those early examples are gonna dictate a bit how easy it is for other people to follow, or how much anyone even wants to follow. Allen Hall: Well, is it gonna become a case where. Certain countries are, uh, focused on certain energy sources like France and Nuclear, and the UK will be offshore wind, onshore wind, and solar. Germany sort of a mix of everything,

Trevor reconnects with his former professor, Dr. Rupp Carriveau from the University of Windsor, to explore how Southern Ontario's agriculture and energy sectors intersect. From powering greenhouses and managing massive industrial demand to reimagining aging wind farms and testing “atomic agriculture,” together they unpack how innovation, AI, and new tech are reshaping Canada's clean energy future. Listen to episode 164 of thinkenery.    Related links Dr. Rupp Carriveau on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rupp-carriveau-b4273823/ Environmental Energy Institute: https://www.environmentalenergyinstitute.com/ Turbulence and Energy Lab: http://www.turbulenceandenergylab.org/ Offshore Energy and Storage Society: https://www.osessociety.com/    Trevor Freeman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-freeman-p-eng-8b612114    Hydro Ottawa: https://hydroottawa.com/en      To subscribe using Apple Podcasts:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinkenergy/id1465129405   To subscribe using Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl   To subscribe on Libsyn: http://thinkenergy.libsyn.com/ --- Subscribe so you don't miss a video: https://www.youtube.com/user/hydroottawalimited   Follow along on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hydroottawa   Stay in the know on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HydroOttawa   Keep up with the posts on X: https://twitter.com/thinkenergypod --- Transcript: Trevor Freeman  00:07 Welcome to thinkenergy, a podcast that dives into the fast, changing world of energy through conversations with industry leaders, innovators and people on the front lines of the energy transition. Join me, Trevor Freeman, as I explore the traditional, unconventional and up and coming facets of the energy industry. If you have any thoughts, feedback or ideas for topics we should cover, please reach out to us at think energy at hydro ottawa.com, hi everyone, and welcome back. Today's episode brings us back to a few elements of my own personal history. Now you'll have to bear with me for a minute or two while I dive into my past in order to properly set up today's conversation, I grew up in southwestern Ontario, in and just outside the border town of Windsor, Ontario. Now for those of you not familiar with this area, Windsor and its surroundings are the most southern part of Canada. It might surprise you to know that Windsor is at the same latitude as Northern California and Rome, Italy. You can imagine that after growing up in Windsor and then living in various places around the globe, when I finally settled down here in Ottawa, adjusting to the more stereotypical Canadian winters of this northern capital, took a little bit of getting used to Windsor is so far south when you cross the border to its neighboring American city, Detroit, Michigan, you actually travel north. Have a look at a map if this seems to defy logic, but I promise you, it's true. This is the area that I grew up in. It's also where I went to school and got my engineering degree. More on that in a minute. Now, if you've ever driven down to the southwestern end of the 401 going past London and Chatham, you will notice two things. First, it is flat, very flat. You will not see a meaningful Hill anywhere in sight. I often joke with people that I used to toboggan when we did get any meaningful snow off of highway overpasses, because that was the only hill we could find. I was only partly joking, and I have indeed tobogganed off of said overpasses in my young and foolish days. But that is a story for another time. That brings us to the second thing you'll see, which is wind turbines. A lot of wind turbines. They are seemingly everywhere, stretching as far as you can see, southwestern Ontario is a hotbed of wind energy generation. Finally, a hint at why I'm going on about this part of the province on an energy podcast. But before we get into it, there's one other thing to touch on, and that is the fact that this area is also home to a large number of greenhouses growing produce year-round, as well as manufacturing. Windsor and its surrounding area is the automotive capital of Canada, with a number of plants from major car companies, as well as a supporting ecosystem of parts manufacturers. Incidentally, that's where I started my career, working as an environmental engineer for one of the automakers, and many members of my family have also worked or still work in that industry. The reason I bring up greenhouses in the auto industry is because they have some very high energy demand profiles, and that is how we get for me going on nostalgically about the area I grew up in, to our conversation today, I recently caught up with one of my engineering professors, Dr Rupp Carriveau, about the work that he and his colleagues have been doing that ties all of this together. And I thought it would be great to have him on the show to talk about that. Dr. Carriveau is the director of the Environmental Energy Institute and co-director of the Turbulence and Energy Lab and the CO lead of AGUwin at the University of Windsor. Back in the day, he was my fluid dynamics professor. But today, he balances his teaching duties with research into energy systems futures and advanced agricultural systems. He is a founder of the offshore energy and storage society, a recipient of the University Scholar Award, and has been named to Canada's clean 50 for his contributions to clean capitalism. Dr Rupp Carriveau, welcome to the show.   Dr Rupp Carriveau  03:59 Trevor, great to be here. Thanks.   Trevor Freeman  04:01 Yeah. So, Rupp, the last time we chatted, well, so you and I chatted a couple weeks ago, but before that, the last time that you and I interacted, I was in third year university. You were my fluid dynamics Prof. So, in addition to your professorial duties, you're now the director of the environmental Energy Institute at the University of Windsor. So, there's two questions around that. First off, how did you end up going from my fluid dynamics prof a number of years ago, probably close to 20 years ago now, to running this institute? And tell us a little bit about what the Institute does.   Dr Rupp Carriveau  04:40 Sure. Though. So, thanks. Yeah, and very memorable Trevor, because I, you know, I remember you well. And, yeah, that was, that was a very nice class that we had. I remember, well, I remember your colleagues too.   Trevor Freeman  04:54 If there's one thing I do, well, it's, it's be memorable, and you can take that however you want.   Dr Rupp Carriveau  04:58 That is, that is. Something to be said for that. Yeah, thanks for that question. So I should point out that in addition to EEI, I am a co-director in the Turbulence and Energy Lab, which is really where all of the EEI initiatives have started from, that's a lab that I co supervise with Dr David Ting in mechanical engineering and the nuts and bolts, the very serious engineering side of things, comes out of the Turbulence and Energy Lab. EEI kind of came about to handle topics that were, frankly speaking, less interesting to Dr Ting. So, things that push more, a little bit more into policy wider systems looks at things as opposed to, you know, pure thermodynamics and energy efficiency type pursuits, which underpin a lot of the EEI policy pieces, but are sort of beyond the scope of what turbulence and energy lab does. So those two things, and then more recently, actually, I'm co lead on, AGUwin, which is like a center of excellence, emerging Center of Excellence at the University of Windsor. So, Agriculture U Windsor is a group of about 40 professors that do work in agriculture in some shape or form. And we've, we've, we've taken to organizing that movement in seeking sort of group funding proposals, developing curriculum and organized sort of platforms to help industry in agriculture. And it's, it's really taking off, which I'm really excited about my extremely hard-working colleagues and CO lead, Isabel Barrett-Ng, she in particular, has been really driving a lot of really cool initiatives ahead and all the people that work with us. So, yeah, lots, lots happening at the University since I saw you last. But you know, time has a way of helping with that, people find ways to find efficiencies and get to do and build on, build on, hopefully incremental progress.   Trevor Freeman  07:08 Yeah, very cool. And you're teasing a few of the areas our conversation is going to go today, that sort of intersection between agriculture and obviously, this is an energy podcast, and so how does agriculture and the way we're moving in with agriculture impacts energy and vice versa. So, we're definitely going to get to that in a minute, I think, for our listeners that are not familiar with Southern Ontario, and I haven't talked about Southern Ontario on the podcast a lot, but people that know me know I will gladly talk about what goes on in the very southern part of our country. It's where I grew up. Help us paint a picture of what Southern Ontario is like. So, in the context of energy, what makes this area of Ontario unique?   Dr Rupp Carriveau  07:50 Well, it's that's a really good question, and I'm glad you phrased it that way, because I think it gets taken for granted. And also, folks, folks don't know energy isn't in the headlines every day, and if it is, it's not a headline that everybody pays attention to. But the southwestern Ontario region, if you take the 401 west of London, you'll start to see a high concentration of wind. So, there's a significant wind corridor in the region, and that's because it's very flat, so the whole area used to be a lake bed, and so we have very fertile agricultural lands as a result of that. And we also have very few obstacles to fetch, which is a huge aspect of how wind carries over the lakes, and is, you know, not, not obstructed. And so it's like you have offshore resources onshore, which is completely ideal. Also, we have, as it may be, we have massive natural gas resources in the area, in sort of the subterranean space of Devonian reefs for natural gas storage. We have natural gas generation facilities down around the Windsor area that help with provincial peaking and there is some solar in the region, because it is the Leamington Kingsville area is referred to as the sun parlor of Ontario. And as a result, we have a lot of under glass agriculture there, which benefits, obviously, directly from solar resources. And then we have solar photovoltaic that takes advantage of that sun as well. So there's, there's a lot happening here energy wise.   Trevor Freeman  09:38 Yeah, and there's a lot on the demand side of things as well. So, you mentioned the greenhouses, which are an up and coming, you know, source of demand draws on our grid. There's also a big manufacturing base. Talk a little bit about the manufacturing base in the area. Yeah, yeah. And that's that gets into my next question is talking about some of the specific, unique energy needs of greenhouses. I think on the manufacturing side, you know, you mentioned the auto industry and the parts industry that supports it, you're seeing more. There's a battery plant being built now I think that, I think people have a sense of that, but greenhouses are this thing that I think a lot of folks don't think about. So, you talked about the magnitude of the load, the lighting side of things. What else is this like, a 24/7 load? Is this sector growing like? Tell us a little bit about, you know where things are going with greenhouses?   Dr Rupp Carriveau  09:53 Yeah, thanks. So, yeah, I was, I was thinking about generation and, yeah, demand is. Significant we have. You know, Windsor has laid claim to Canada's automotive capital, and while I'm biased, I'd like to think it still is. And so we have significant manufacturing around the automotive industry, either automotive OEMs or tier one parts makers that have significant draws. We have Stellantis. Every minivan comes out of this area has come out of this area. The electric Dodge Charger comes out of this area. But there are engine plants for Ford, but they're also now, you know, sort of next generation transport technologies. You've talking about battery manufacturing. So, there's an enormous LG consortium with Stellantis here that's doing battery manufacturing. And so, these are huge loads that that add to existing and growing loads in the greenhouse space, which, again, I'll just mention it now, is something that isn't well understood. And we did a, we did a study for the province a couple years, three, four years ago. Now, I think grid Innovation Fund project that looked at sort of really getting into granular detailing of the loads that come with a lit greenhouse. A lot of people don't appreciate that a lit greenhouse, when switched on, depending on the lighting technology, depending on how it's used, can be like a 50-megawatt load, which is a significant load. And just imagine that's one so they can come on quickly, and they are non-trivial, significant loads. And so, this is something that we looked at trying to develop distributed energy resource sort of solutions for, because, simply speaking, you can't put up a new transmission line overnight, and we don't want to economically constrain the growth of the sector. Sure, yeah. I mean, it's, it's not a simple thing to characterize, because what you can take away from this is that these greenhouse developers are business dynamos, and frankly speaking, many of them do very well, because they're very good at what they do, and with the resources they have, they can largely do what they want. And if, if the infrastructure isn't there, they will build it so. So, you'll have folks that are operating off the grid, essentially not off the gas grid, of course, but they're using gas for cogeneration purposes, to produce heat for their crops, but also the electricity for their lights. So that is one aspect of it that further complicates how to figure out what these loads on the grid will be. But for the most part, of course, the grid provides quite clean and quite affordable electricity in the province, and you know where they can they want to be able to connect to the grid. Now, lights are designed to extend the growing day and extend the growing season as well. So, in terms of when they're switched on and how they're switched on, that is highly variable, and that is also something that is, I would say, in development, folks are looking at different ways to use intermittent lighting to be conscious of when peaking happens. It is dispatchable in a way, in that some growers are able to turn their lights off to avoid, you know, peaking charges. But again, there's a lot to manage. And, and it's, it's very complicated, both on the grid side and, and for the greenhouse grower.   Trevor Freeman  14:38 Yeah, so you mentioned natural gas for cogen for heating as well. So, as we look to decarbonize all different aspects of the sector, we talk often on the show of what are the specific areas where decarbonization might be challenging. Is, is greenhouses one of those areas? And, and what are the options available for heating these spaces? Like, is it realistic to think that there's an electric solution here, or what? What's happening in that sector related to decarbonization?   Dr Rupp Carriveau  15:10 Again, you've hit on a real sort of hot button issue for the for the sector, the trouble with natural gas is that it's spectacular. Oh, it's storable. It's dispatchable. It's a triple threat for greenhouses in the best way possible, because you can make your heat, you can make your electricity, and the plants crave CO2, and that comes out of the flue gas on the other side of the combustion reaction. So, you know, when you swing in there and you say, Oh, I've got this great new solution. It's called hydrogen. We'll burn hydrogen and we won't have these nasty CO2 release. And they're like, Okay, who's going to replace my CO2? So, it's a difficult fuel to displace. Now, admittedly, people understand that, you know, that's where we really need to go. And is, is electric? You know, electrification the path. So, people talk about, people talk about heat pumps, people talk about electric boilers. And then, as I mentioned, people talked about, you know, we've, we've also looked at the idea of blending hydrogen into a natural gas feed for existing infrastructure to, you know, because, because not all of the CO2, that is, you know, released is, is taken down by the plants. And so could you get to a magic blend where it's just the amount of CO2 that you need is what goes into the other side, and then there's nothing left after the plants take what they need. So, there's a lot of things that are being looked at. It is again, a challenging space to operate in, because it's highly competitive. Getting really granular. Data is very sensitive, because this, this, this is a, you know, it's a game of margins, and it's in its high stakes production. So to get in there and sort of be in the way is, is difficult. So, this work is being done. We're participating in a lot of this work. We just finished a study for the province, a Hydrogen Innovation Fund study on looking at the integration of hydrogen into the greenhouse space. And it was, it was pretty revelatory for us.   Trevor Freeman  17:36 So is the exhaust from burning natural gas on site. Does that get recycled through the greenhouse and therefore captured to some degree? Do we know how much you kind of hinted at finding out that sweet spot? Do we know how much of that gets captured?   Dr Rupp Carriveau  17:53 Yeah, so the short answer is yes. So, they have the cogen engines have scrubbers on them, and these, these machines are spectacularly capable of being tuned the combustion and the professionals that operate them at the greenhouse facilities are artists, and that they can get the sort of combustion profile a certain way, and so that that flue gas will go into the greenhouse, but to know exactly how much is being taken down, that is an area of active research, and we don't, we don't know that answer yet. There are people that are looking at it, and you can imagine it's kind of a provocative number for the sector. So, they're being very careful about how they do it.   Trevor Freeman  18:36  I'm sure, I'm sure. Okay, let's, let's park that just for a minute here, and jump back to something you mentioned earlier. You talked about one how flat Southern Ontario is, and it took me leaving, leaving the county before I really knew what skiing and tobogganing and everything else was. So, there's a lot of wind power generation. And for anyone listening, yeah, as rip mentioned, if you ever drive down the 401 going towards Windsor, you'll just start to see these massive wind turbines kind of everywhere you look. So, help us understand how these turbines, you know, you look out over a field and you see, you know, 2030, of them more in your line of sight. How do they connect to our provincial grid? How do the contracts work? Like, who gets that power? Give us a little bit of a sense of how that works.   Dr Rupp Carriveau  19:28 For sure. Yeah, well, so what most people don't realize, and again, it's not something that's talked about, and if it is, I don't know people are necessarily paying attention to it, but, but you know the comment I'll get from relatives we talked about Thanksgiving. So, you know people, because they know I'm a wind person, they'll be like, 'Hey, I was driving down the road and I saw they weren't spinning with, what's going on? Are they broken or what?' Well, you know, because we, we've got some pro wind and some non pro wind folks in the in the family, so it's an exciting time for me. But you know, and I mentioned that the greenhouses I'm working with are often starved for utility supply. And they said, well, how can that be? The turbines are right there. They're sharing the same space, right? And most people don't realize that. Really, I would say 95% of the wind in our corridor is put on a transmission line and sent up to, effectively, to Toronto, to be distributed throughout the province, which is great, but it's not really a local asset. And that was sort of what inspired us when we saw these two sorts of juxtaposed. We thought maybe you could turn these assets into something that acted as really a new type of distributed energy resource, and that you've got a transmission connected asset that's currently under contract, but if that contract could be modified, then the fiscal connections could potentially be modified so you could have local distribution, let's say at a time of maybe at a time of transmission curtailment, maybe under different conditions. So again, looking into the physical plausibility of it was part of our study, and then doing some sort of economic investigation of how that would work, having a nearly 20-year-old asset all of a sudden springing into a new role in a new life, where it continues to perform transmission duties for the province at large, but it also serves local needs in the production, let's say, of hydrogen through an electrolyzer, or just plain electrons turning lights on. That is something that isn't possible yet. Regulatory reasons exist for that that would require some, some significant changes. But it was a really interesting exercise to go through to investigate how that could happen.   Trevor Freeman  22:08 Yeah, so there's just trying to understand how this work. There's someone who owns these turbines. Some conglomerate somewhere, you know, Canadian, not Canadian, who knows. They contract with the Independent Electricity System Operator who operates the grid in the province. And they basically say, yeah, well, look, we'll provide you with X amount of power on some contract, and when ISO needs it, they call on it. How long do those contracts last? Is that a 10-year contract? A 20-year contract?   Dr Rupp Carriveau  22:35 So, they are in Ontario. The ones that I'm familiar with for 20 years. So it's possible there are others. I know. I have a there's a farm that operates in PEI that has a nice 30 year PPA. So the longer you can get, the better. Yeah, and these, these power purchase agreements are, are wonderful for developers, because they're known entities, doing the math on your finances is really straightforward with these contracts. And frankly speaking, when you had a sector that needed to be brought up from nothing, they were very necessary. They were very necessary. And but those contracts, and they're and they're locked down, as much as we try to, you know, persuade the province to get crazy, to amuse us with these new, newfangled ways of of connecting to people, commerce wise, through energy, they are not interested so far, at least in and they're like, let's finish these out, and then we can talk your crazy ideas, you know, and so, but that's we're getting glare, because I would say many, many, many farms in the province will be coming up on the sun setting end of Their power purchase agreements in the coming five, six years.   Trevor Freeman  24:03 Yeah, yeah. Which brings me to my next point, of the assets themselves, the actual physical turbine, I assume last longer than 20 years. You're going to build one of these things. You know, 20 years is not its end of life. So what are the options available today? You talked about regulatory barriers. We talk about regulatory barriers on this show often, what are, what are the options today for a wind farm that is at its end of contract? Does it look at re contracting? Can it kind of direct source to someone else? Like, what are the options available for an owner?   Dr Rupp Carriveau  24:40 Yeah, well, to me, it's an exciting time, because it could be work for us. We get excited about this. I think it could be a source of anxiety for owners, because there's nothing better than that long term contract. So many of them will try to apply for things like a medium, a new medium term length contract from the. Province, like an MT two, I think they're called. There are other contract types that are possible, but there'll be, it'll be a highly competitive landscape for those, and the in the province won't be able to give everyone one of these contracts. So some of these, some of these operators, will likely have to look at other options which may be going into the spot market, potentially, you know, getting into the capacity game by getting a battery on site and firming up their ability to provide power when necessary or provide capacity. And then there's a there isn't a relatively recent regulatory development in the around the middle of July, the province said, you know, if you're a non emitting generator and you're not under contract, you could provide virtual power someone else who might need it, if they're looking if they're a class, a customer that's trying to avoid peak charges. You know, rather than that class a customer buys a battery behind the meter and physically reduce their peaks. They could potentially virtually reduce their peaks by setting up a virtual power purchase agreement with another supplier. So these, these off contract spinning assets could have an opportunity to get into this game of peak relief. Which, which could be very lucrative. Because, based on last year's provincial global adjustment charges at large, you're looking at being paid something on the order of about $72,000 a megawatt hour for the, for the for the for the megawatt hours in question, which, which, of course, you know, try to get as many as you can. .   Trevor Freeman  26:31 Yeah. So there's a couple of things there. Bear with me while I connect a few dots for our listeners. So on different shows, we talk about different things. Global adjustment is one of them. And we've been talking here about these long term contracts. Global adjustment, as you might remember from previous conversations, is one of those mechanisms that bridges the gap between the spot market price, you know, the actual commodity cost of electricity that's out there, and some of the built-in cost to run the system, which includes these long term contracts. So there's a there's a fixed cost to run the system, global adjustment helps bridge that gap. The next concept here that is important to remember is this class, a strategy where the largest the largest customers, electricity customers in the province, have the opportunity to adjust how they are build global adjustment based on their contribution to the most intensive demand peaks in the province over the course of a year. So during a really high demand period, when everybody needs electricity, if they can reduce their demand, there's significant savings. And so what you're saying is there's this new this new ability for kind of a virtual connection, where, if I'm a big facility that has a high demand, and I contract with a generator, like a wind turbine that's not in contract anymore, I can say, hey, it's a peak time now I need to use some of your capacity to offset, you know, some of my demand, and there's those significant savings there. So you're absolutely right. That's a new thing in the province. We haven't had that ability up until just recently. So super fascinating, and that kind of connects our two topics today, that the large demand facilities in southern Ontario and these these generators that are potentially nearing the end of their contract and looking for what else might happen. So are you guys navigating that conversation between the greenhouses or the manufacturers and the generators?   Dr Rupp Carriveau  28:49 I'm so glad you asked. And here comes, here comes a shameless plug. Yeah? So yes. So there's a spin off company from the turbulence and Energy Lab, and it's called jailbreak labs. And jailbreak labs really represents sort of the space that is more commercial than research, but it also was sort of spurned, spurred from research. So jailbreak Labs has developed a registry, and we've been providing some webinars as well. So this, again, this is a company that that is essentially run by students, that this registry allows generators and consumers to ultimately find each other so that, so that these kinds of connections can be made. Because, as you may well imagine, there is no guarantee that the wind will be blowing at the time that you need it so, so and your load may be such that you need a different type of generation profile. So it needs to be profiling on the generation side. There needs to be profiling on the customer side. Yeah, and, you know, we've been doing this on our own for years. It was the time was right for us to sort of step in and say, because we were following this, we were real fanboys of this, of this reg, even before it came into play. And we kept bugging, you know, OEB for meetings and ISO and they, begrudgingly, to their credit, would chat with us about it, and then the next thing we know, it's announced that it's that it's happening. Was very exciting. So, so, yes, so we're really interested in seeing this happen, because it seems like such a unique, we're thrilled, because we're always interested in this sort of Second Life for assets that already have been depreciated and they're clean energy assets. Let's get everything we can out of them and to have this dynamic opportunity for them, and that will help Class A customers too hard for us to ignore.   Trevor Freeman  30:56 And you mentioned the last time we chatted about building a tool that helps evaluate and kind of injecting a little bit of AI decision making into this. Talk to us about that tool a little bit.   Dr Rupp Carriveau  31:08 Yeah. So we have a, we have a tool called quantract which is basically playing on the idea of quantifying all the risk and opportunity in in a contract. So it's really a contract visualization tool. Another way to think of it as a real time Net Present Value tool that allows renewable energy stakeholders to really, evaluate the value of their investment by not only understanding the physical life left in an asset. Let's say that a wind farm that's, you know, at 20 years and it looks like we may need to replace some blades. Do we just walk away and say, look at it. We had a good run contracts over, you know, we made some money. Let's sell the assets as they are. Or do we say, you know, I'm looking into this vppa game, and we could do okay here, but I'm not exactly sure how that's going to work and when. And so this, this tool that we've developed, will do things like will first of all identify all risk factors, and risk includes opportunities and then we'll profile them, and then builds them into basically what is more or less a glorified discounted cash flow model. So it is a way of measuring the potential value of investment in the AI space. I mean, the AI piece of it is that we have developed agents that will actually identify other things that are less, less sort of noticeable to people. In fact, this regulatory change is one of the things that our AI agents would have been looking for. Okay, now it pre it predated our tool going online, so we didn't see it, but it's the kind of thing that we'd be looking for. So the agents look for news, they look for changes online, and then, and then what happens is, they got brought, they get brought into a profiler. The profiler then determines the probability of or makes an estimate of the probability that this risk will occur. IE, a regulatory change will happen. IE, battery plant will come to town at a certain time. IE, a Costco facility will come in. Then we'll determine the potential magnitude. So there'll be uncertainty in the occurrence, there'll be uncertainty in the magnitude, and there'll be uncertainty in the timing. So we have basically statistical distribution functions for each one of those things, the likelihood of it happening, the magnitude and the timing. And so those are all modeled in so that people can push a button and, say, with this level of certainty your investment would be, would be worth this much. And that's dynamic. It's in real time. So it's changing constantly. It's being updated constantly. And so no so that that is something that goes in, and one of these virtual power purchase agreements would be one of the types of things that would go into this sort of investment timeline?   Trevor Freeman  34:22 Yeah, so it's giving these owners of these assets better data to make a decision about what comes next, as you said, and as we're talking I'm kind of doing the math here. If these are typically 20 year contracts, that's bringing us back to, you know, the mid, early, 2000s when we were really pushing to get off coal. So a lot of these assets probably started in and around that time. So you've probably got a whole bunch of customers, for lack of a better term, ready to start making decisions in the next you know, half a decade or so of what do I do with my. Sets. Have you seen this? Has it been used in the real world yet? Or is, are you getting close to that? Like, where are you at in development?   Dr Rupp Carriveau  35:07 Yeah, it actually started. It's funny. It started a little a little bit even before this craze. A couple years ago, we had, we had a manufacturer in our county come to us with, they had a great interest in, in just, just they were trying to be proactive about avoiding carbon tax and so, and they wanted to develop a new generation technology close to their facility. And so we used it there since that time. Yeah, so, so it was field proven that was a still a research contract, because they were the technology that they were interested in was, was, was not off the shelf. But since that time, we got a chance, because we represent Canada in the International Energy Agency, task 43 on wind energy digitalization. And so one of the mandates there was to develop a robust and transparent tools for investment decision support using digital twins. And we had a German partner in Fraunhofer Institute that had developed nice digital twin that would provide us remaining useful life values for things like blades, you know, towers, foundations, etc, and those are, again, those are all costs that just plug into our but they did. They didn't have a framework of how to work that into an investment decision other than, you know, you may have to replace this in three years. Okay, well, that's good to know, but we need the whole picture to make that decision, and that's sort of what we were trying to bring so the short answer is, yes, we're getting a lot of interest now, which is thrilling for us, but it's, I'll be honest with you, it's not, it's not simple, like, you know, I I've talked about it a bunch of times, so I'm pretty good at talking about it, but, but the doing it is still, it's computationally intensive and in the end, it's still an estimate. It's a, it's a, it's a calculated, quantified estimate, but it's an estimate. I think what we like about it is it's better than saying, Well, I have a hunch that it's going to go this way, but we could get beat by the hunches too. Yeah, totally, right. So, so, you know, I'm not trying to sell people things that, like I we have to be transparent about it. It's still probability.   Trevor Freeman  37:35 Well, I think if there's, if there's one thing that is very apparent, as we are well into this energy transition process that we talk about all the time here on the show. It's that the pace of change is is one of the things that's like no other time we are we are seeing things change, and that means both our demand is growing, our need to identify solutions is growing the way that we need to build out the grid and utilize the ers and utilize all these different solutions is growing at a rate that we haven't seen before, and therefore uncertainty goes up. And so to your point, yeah, we need help to make these decisions. We need better ways of doing it than just, as you say, having a hunch. That doesn't mean it's foolproof. It doesn't mean it's a guarantee.   Dr Rupp Carriveau  38:27 Nope, it is not a guarantee.   Trevor Freeman  38:30 Very cool. So Rupp, this is a great conversation. It's really fascinating to talk about to me, two areas of the energy sector that aren't really understood that well. I think the agriculture side of things, not a lot of people think about that as a major demand source. But also wind, I think we talk about solar a lot. It's a little bit more ubiquitous. People's neighbors have solar on their roofs. But wind is this unless you drive through Southern Ontario or other parts of the province where there's a lot of wind, you don't see it a lot. So it's fascinating to kind of help understand where these sectors are going. Is there anything else that the Institute is working on that that's worth chatting about here, or is what we've talked about, you know, kind of filling your day, in your students days?   Dr Rupp Carriveau  39:15 Well, actually there is something we haven't talked about the nuclear option. Literally, literally the nuclear literally the nuclear option. Yeah, so we've been really thrilled to have a growing relationship with Canadian Nuclear Laboratories, which is much closer to you than it is to me. And specifically in the connection of small modular reactors to meet these growing agricultural loads. So I have a science colleague at the University of Windsor, Dr drew Marquart, who was all hot and bothered about these s. Mrs. And he's like, we should drop one of these SMRs in Leamington. Then I this, this part I really enjoyed, because it's obviously so he came from Oak Ridge National Laboratories in the States, and he's and he's been at CNL as well. So he's fully indoctrinated into the nuclear space. But it just didn't occur to him that that would be provocative or controversial at all, that there wouldn't be some social he, you know, he's like, we can do the math. And I said, Oh yeah, yeah, we can do the math. But I'm like, I think you're missing something. I think you're missing something, right? So, but so it's, it's a super fascinating topic, and we're trying to connect, physically connect. So just before the weekend, I was in the turbulence and Energy Lab, and we were trying to commission what we believe is North America's first we're calling it a model synthetic, small modular reactor, synthetic being the key word, and that it's non nuclear, okay? And so it's non nuclear. What it what it is really and if I'm going to de glamorize it for a second, it's a mini steam thermal power plant, which doesn't embody every SMR design, but many SMRs are designed around this sort of where you've got a nuclear reaction that provides the heat, and then after that, it's kind of a steam thermal power plant. Our interest is in this physical little plant being connected to small electrolyzer, being connected to small thermal battery, being connected to a lab scale electric battery and being connected to a lab scale fully automated inlet, cucumber, small cucumber, greenhouse, mini cubes greenhouse, all this in our lab. The exciting thing around this is, you know, I I've said that I think nuclear technology needs to get out from behind the walls of nuclear facilities for people to start to appreciate it, and by that, to start doing that, you have to take the nuclear part out, which, to me, is not necessarily a deal breaker in terms of these dynamic issues that we want to solve. You know, because nukes have traditionally been said, Well, you know they're not that. You know, you can't just ramp them up and down, and that's true, you know, and small modular reactors are supposed to be considerably more nimble, but there's still lots of challenges that have to be solved in terms of having how it is an asset that is provides copious energy, but does so maybe not, not as dynamic, certainly, as a gas turbine. That how does it? How do you make it nimble, right? How do you partner it up with the right complimentary other grid assets to take advantage of what it does so well, which is crank out great amounts of heat and electricity so, so effortlessly, right? And so that's, that's sort of what we're trying to do, and connecting it to what we're calling atomic agriculture. I don't know that's a good name or not. I like it, but, but, but, yeah, so that that's another thing that we're that we're flirting with right now. We're working on. We've done a few. We've had a few contracts with Canadian Nuclear Laboratories to get us this far. We did everything computationally. We're continuing to do computational studies with them. They develop their own hybrid energy systems, optimizer software, HISO, which we use, and we are now trying to put it into sort of the hardware space. So again, just the idea that physically looking at the inertia of spinning up a turbine, the little gap, the little sort of steam powered turbine that we have in the lab that's run by an electric boiler. But our hope is to, ultimately, we're going to get the electric boiler to be mimicking the sort of reaction heating dynamics of a true reactor. So by, but through electrical control. So we'll imitate that by having sort of data from nuclear reactions, and then we'll sort of get an electrical signal analog so that we can do that and basically have a non nuclear model, small modular reactor in the lab.   Trevor Freeman  44:14 Very cool, very neat. Well, Rupp, this has been a great conversation. I really appreciate it. We do always end our interviews with a series of questions here, so I'm going to jump right into those. What's a book that you've read that you think everyone should read?   Dr Rupp Carriveau  44:31 I would say any of the Babysitters Club. That's as high as I get in the literary hierarchy. I'm barely literate so and I thoroughly enjoyed reading those books with my daughters that they were great. So I recommend any, any of the Babysitters Club titles. I mean that completely seriously, I that was the peak of my that are dog man, yeah,   Trevor Freeman  44:56 I'm about six months removed from what i. Was about an 18 month run where that's, that's all I read with my youngest kiddo. So they've, they've just moved on to a few other things. But yes, I've been steeped in the Babysitter's Club very recently.   Dr Rupp Carriveau  45:11 So good. So, you know, absolutely.   Trevor Freeman  45:14 So same question, but for a movie or a show, what's something that you recommend?   Dr Rupp Carriveau  45:17 Everyone thrilled with that question. If you're looking for a good, good true story. I've always been romantically obsessed with the ghost in the darkness, the true story of, I guess, a civil engineer trying to solve a problem of man eating lions and Tsavo. That's a, that's a, that's a tremendous movie with Val Kilmer and Michael Douglas. Yeah, that's good then, and I think for something a little more light hearted and fun, a big fan of the way, way back and youth and revolt, nice.   Trevor Freeman  46:03 If someone offered you a free round trip flight anywhere in the world, where would you go?   Dr Rupp Carriveau  46:05 I don't really like flying, I got to be honest. But if, if I was forced onto the plane, I think, I think I go to Japan. Nice. Have you been before? No, I haven't. I'd like to go. Okay, cool. You're not the first guest that has said that someone else was very That's understandable. Yeah, who is someone that you admire? I would say truly selfless people that help people when no one's looking and when it's not being tabulated for likes those people are who I aspire to be more like nice.   Trevor Freeman  46:47 And last question, what's something about the energy sector or its future that you're really excited about?   Dr Rupp Carriveau  46:53 I think maybe power to the people I really like, the movement of distributed energy resources. I'm sure there's a limit to it, but I think, I think if we have more responsibility for our own power production, and again, I can see there are limits where it's probably, you know, there's, there's a point where it's too much. I'm all for, for major centralized coordination and the security in the reliability that goes with that. But I think a little bit more on the distributed side would be nice, because I think people would understand energy better. They would they would own it more, and I think our grid would probably increase in its resiliency.   Trevor Freeman  47:37 Yeah, that's definitely something that no matter the topic, it seems, is a part of almost every conversation I have here on the show. It works its way in, and I think that's indicative of the fundamental role that decentralizing our energy production and storage is is already playing and is going to play in the years to come as we kind of tackle this energy transition drove this has been a really great conversation. I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us, and that's great to catch up. Great to chat with you again.   Dr Rupp Carriveau  48:11 Total privilege for me. Trevor, I really appreciate it. Outstanding job.   Trevor Freeman  48:15 Thanks for having me. Yeah, great to chat. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the thinkenergy podcast, don't forget to subscribe. Wherever you listen to podcasts, and it would be great if you could leave us a review. It really helps to spread the word. As always, we would love to hear from you, whether it's feedback comments or an idea for a show or a guest. You can always reach us at thinkenergy@hydroottawa.com.  

Kevin covers the following stories: despite the rhetoric last week, New Social Security Cost-Of-Living Adjustment (COLA) release date confirmed amid Government shutdown; the Department of Energy terminated $7.5 Billion in grants for last minute Biden-approved projects; oil and gas prices react to U.S.-China trade tensions; International Energy Agency's prediction of crude oil supply surplus in 2026; a possible meeting between President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jingping later this month; comments by Fed-Chair Jerome Powell indicating further rate cuts this year; Kevin has the details, digs into the data, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and a few opinions.

Kevin covers the following stories: despite the rhetoric last week, New Social Security Cost-Of-Living Adjustment (COLA) release date confirmed amid Government shutdown; the Department of Energy terminated $7.5 Billion in grants for last minute Biden-approved projects; oil and gas prices react to U.S.-China trade tensions; International Energy Agency's prediction of crude oil supply surplus in 2026; a possible meeting between President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jingping later this month; comments by Fed-Chair Jerome Powell indicating further rate cuts this year; Kevin has the details, digs into the data, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and a few opinions.

 A new report from the International Energy Agency has found that energy retail prices in Ireland are three times higher than wholesale prices, one of the highest gaps in the world. The report also confirms that Ireland has the highest electricity prices in Europe. We get reaction to this with Charlie Weston, Personal Finance editor with the Irish Independent.

US stocks were mixed in overnight trade. Both the Nasdaq (-0.76%) and SP500 (-0.16%) declined. That result was better than the initial opening move, which suggested that bigger declines were likely. Argy bargy between the US and China is giving a mixed outlook for the trade war.ASX set to rise 74 points. BOQ raises dividend. Sarah Hunter (RBA) speaks Both US indices steadied later in the day. Solid US bank earnings from Wells Fargo and Citigroup no doubt helped sentiment toward both the market and broader US economy. Volume across both markets was average relative to the last month of trading. Oil declined nearly 2% after the International Energy Agency forecast a glut for 2026. Industrial metals in London were down.  Gold moved to an all time high of US$4,138.Want to invest with Marcus Today? The Managed Strategy Portfolio is designed for investors seeking exposure to our strategy while we do the hard work for you. If you're looking for personal financial advice, our friends at Clime Investment Management can help. Their team of licensed advisers operates across most states, offering tailored financial planning services.  Why not sign up for a free trial? Gain access to expert insights, research, and analysis to become a better investor.

 A new report from the International Energy Agency has found that energy retail prices in Ireland are three times higher than wholesale prices, one of the highest gaps in the world. The report also confirms that Ireland has the highest electricity prices in Europe. We get reaction to this with Charlie Weston, Personal Finance editor with the Irish Independent.

To view the graphs Nate is referring to in this episode, please click here. --- In this week's Frankly, Nate returns from New York City Climate Week with fresh reflections on the disconnect between our economic narratives and biophysical realities. Using his background in finance, Nate observes that while the prioritization of financial abstractions and claims continue to accelerate, with gold and silver prices reaching record-setting highs, the ledger is being balanced with parallel declines in our planetary health and social resilience. This tradeoff is harder and harder to ignore as newly crossed planetary boundaries continue alerting us to the fact that we are operating outside of our Earth's ability to maintain biospheric stability. Nate also gives an update on Peak Oil, drawing on the International Energy Agency's recent report regarding the implications of oil and gas field decline rates. He emphasizes that the question at hand is not if these energetic supply constraints will affect the trajectory of human systems – rather, the question is when it will come into effect, and how we will respond as a human species. Given the increasing number of reports on declining oil forecasts, how much longer can our society remain energy-blind? Where might our priorities shift if we truly understood the biophysical limits shaping our future? Lastly, if we were to zoom out towards a wider boundary lens, what types of societal responses become possible that could steer us towards better human and planetary futures?  (Recorded September 30, 2025)   Show Notes and More Watch this video episode on YouTube   Want to learn the broad overview of The Great Simplification in 30 minutes? Watch our Animated Movie.   ---   Support The Institute for the Study of Energy and Our Future   Join our Substack newsletter   Join our Hylo channel and connect with other listeners

In this episode, we speak with Trevor Best, Co-founder and CEO of Syzygy Plasmonics, who shares how his company's proprietary photocatalytic technology converts waste biogas into sustainable aviation fuel, and has the potential to reach fossil jet fuel parity. Best discusses:NovaSAF's unique value proposition: converting biogas from landfills, dairy farms, and wastewater treatment plants into SAF, simultaneously addressing methane emissions whilst decarbonising aviation transport.The technology's competitive advantage: using light instead of heat which enables the use of raw biogas without extensive cleanup, scaling efficiently at smaller sites, and increasing yield by incorporating CO2 into the fuel rather than separating it out.Strategic targeting of stranded biogas assets that are far from natural gas grids, which helps secure feedstock at low prices $5-6 per MMBtu, making jet fuel parity achievable.How Syzygy is building the world's first biogas-to-SAF plant in Uruguay, that can produce 400,000 gallons of SAF anually, serving as proof of concept before scaling to 100,000 tons per year by 2030 through clustered developments.The global biogas opportunity: the International Energy Agency estimates reserves could theoretically produce 580 million tons per year of SAF, exceeding total global jet fuel consumption, though 95% remains stranded today.Best also shares his leadership philosophy: the importance of listening over talking, the inevitability of failure in entrepreneurship, and why persistence matters more than avoiding mistakes.If you LOVED this episode, you'll also love the conversation we had with Dave Kettner, President and General Counsel at Virent, who shares the company's pivotal role in shaping a sustainable future in aviation. Check it out here. Learn more about the innovators who are navigating the industry's challenges to make sustainable aviation a reality, in our new book ‘Sustainability in the Air: Volume 2'. Click here to learn more.Feel free to reach out via email to podcast@simpliflying.com. For more content on sustainable aviation, visit our website green.simpliflying.com and join the movement. It's about time.Links & More:Syzygy PlasmonicsSyzygy Plasmonics begins development of the world's first electrified biogas-to-SAF plant - PR NewswireSyzygy Plasmonics outlines dual-certified, cost effective RFNBO and Bio SAF solution as Europe calls for urgent action on Net-Zero aviation - BioEnergy TimesSyzygy Plasmonics and Velocys partner for sustainable aviation fuel production in Uruguay - ChemAnalyst    

India's oil future is being shaped by global power moves and hidden agendas. What does this mean for the Indian economy and global energy security.In this episode of The Core Report Weekend Edition, Govindraj Ethiraj will be in conversation with energy expert Dr Anas Al Hajji to uncover the real story behind India's dependence on Russian oil, US tariffs on imports, and the role of OPEC, China, and Europe.Why is the International Energy Agency often wrong in its forecasts. How are India's refineries preparing for shifting crude supplies. Could China's oil storage strategy reshape global prices. And what really determines whether sanctions on Russia work or fail.We explore the truth about oil demand growth, future energy prices, and the geopolitical tensions driving markets. From India's energy security to US China trade wars, from Russia's oil exports to Canada's pipelines, this is a deep dive into the forces that will shape oil and energy markets through 2026.If you want to understand the next surge in oil demand, the risks for India's economy, and the opportunities for business leaders, this conversation is a must watch.Stay with us for sharp insights, expert analysis, and clear answers on where India and the world are heading in the global oil game.Join & Interact anonymously on our WhatsApp channel (https://tinyurl.com/The-Core-WhatsApp-Channel) Subscribe to our Newsletter (https://www.thecore.in/newsletters/thecorenewsletter)Follow Us on Social Media for More Updates:Twitter (https://twitter.com/the_core_in)Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/the.core.in/)Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/thecore.biz/)Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/company/thecore-in)Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/@thecore_in)

As the uptake of Artificial Intelligence (AI) increases in many sectors of the economy, all of that infrastructure has to be supported somehow: that is where data centres come in. The most advanced economies are rushing to scale up their digital infrastructure, yet industry laggard Europe is also behind in this aspect, compared to places like the US and China. These massive facilities use great amounts of electricity, burdening local energy grids to already unsustainable levels in places like Dublin. That is not to speak of the water consumption needed to cool these facilities and the larger implications of the increased integration of AI into our daily lives. Host Sabina Șancu spoke to Thomas Spencer, senior energy analyst at the International Energy Agency, about the characteristics of energy consumption by AI data centres and what the future might have in store for them: more efficiency or a greater burden for our grids. Programme Executive Davide Sofia met with Denis "Jaromil" Roio in Piacenza, at the Festival del Pensare Contemporaneo. Jaromil, the founder of the Dyne.org foundation, spoke about the potential of AI, its effect on energy, and the immense care with which we need to treat it when it comes to our security in these unstable times. This episode is connected to our 2025 Climate and Energy summit, taking place in Brussels on the 23rd of September. The event will bring together speakers from the private and public sectors to explore how Europe can turn its green agenda into a powerful engine for investment, prosperity and shared decarbonisation pathways. If you want to comment on this episode you can send us an e-mail: press@friendsofeurope.org

In this episode, Argus' Waldemar Jaszczyk discusses the future of clean cooking access in Africa with Daniel Wetzel, the head of the Tracking Sustainable Transitions Unit at the International Energy Agency. Daniel joins to take stock of the progress achieved since last year's summit on the issue, during which $2.2bn in public and private funding was pledged until 2030. Building on recent success, Daniel outlines the IEA's newly released roadmap for all African countries to reach universal access to clean cooking by 2040, describing LPG as the “workhorse” of the move away from harmful traditional cooking fuels such as wood, charcoal, and kerosene. 

On this episode of the Energy Security Cubed Podcast, Kelly and Joe discuss the challenge of forecasting global energy demand with consideration of the International Energy Agency's World Energy Outlook data series and the potential for a global LNG glut. // Host Bio: - Kelly Ogle is Managing Director of the Canadian Global Affairs Institute - Joe Calnan is VP Energy and Calgary Operations at the Canadian Global Affairs Institute // Interview recording Date: September 16, 2025 // Energy Security Cubed is part of the CGAI Podcast Network. Follow the Canadian Global Affairs Institute on Facebook, Twitter (@CAGlobalAffairs), or on LinkedIn. Head over to our website at www.cgai.ca for more commentary. // Produced by Joe Calnan. Music credits to Drew Phillips.

Recent geopolitical events, including the Israeli attack on Doha and Russian drones entering Polish airspace, have influenced energy markets. On the other hand, the International Energy Agency's (IEA) latest report suggest a potential surplus. Please note: this podcast is provided for information purposes only and should not be construed as an offer, or a solicitation of an offer, to buy or sell financial instruments. This podcast does not constitute a personal recommendation and is not investment advice. Investec

In this episode of Redefining Energy Tech Michael Barnard sat down with Lyle Trytten, who many in the industry know as the nickel nerd. He has spent decades working in mining and mineral processing and has become a trusted voice for organizations like Natural Resources Canada and the International Energy Agency. Our conversation turned to the techno-economic realities of seabed mining, a topic made timely by American executive orders on resource leasing and the ongoing debates around the Clarion Clipperton Zone in the Pacific.Lyle laid out the three categories of undersea mineralization that matter: manganese-rich crusts closer to shore, sulfide deposits around black smokers, and the polymetallic nodules that dominate the abyssal plains. It is those nodules that attract the most attention, given their mix of manganese, nickel, copper, cobalt and iron. The percentages matter here. Manganese makes up 20 to 30% of nodules, feeding a steel market of about 20 million tons annually. Copper mirrors manganese in demand at similar volumes. Nickel sits above copper in value, with nodules carrying over 1% grades. Cobalt is the prize, worth two and a half times nickel and largely controlled today by the Democratic Republic of Congo with annual output of 250,000 to 300,000 tons. Compared to terrestrial deposits, those grades are very competitive, often better than what current copper and nickel mines deliver onshore.Of course, the challenge is not what lies within the nodules but where they are. Four kilometers down is a different game than an open pit in Chile. Lyle framed it with a simple multiplier: one times for onshore, ten times for offshore, a hundred times underwater, and a thousand times when you hit the seabed. The Clarion Clipperton Zone lies thousands of kilometers from shore, making costs and logistics daunting. Even compared to offshore oil, with rigs like Deepwater Horizon working at 1.5 kilometers depth, this is an order of magnitude harder. That reality explains why seabed mining remains more a promise than a practice.We also dug into the credibility problem the sector faces. The history of mining is littered with scams, from Bre-X to pump-and-dump juniors, which is why Canada now requires transparent disclosures under NI 43-101. Without strict governance and independent validation, seabed mining risks repeating those mistakes. The resource base is not the issue. Just as with oil, the minerals are there. The question is whether reserves—economically viable, technically accessible deposits—will come online in time to meet surging demand, especially for copper, which looks tight in the next 15 years.Substitutability plays a role too. Aluminum can stand in for copper in transmission lines. Stainless steel has shifted chemistries in response to nickel price spikes. Battery makers tweak their chemistries—NMC ratios change with market conditions, and lithium iron phosphate has taken half the electric vehicle market without using nickel, manganese, or cobalt at all. Recycling will matter increasingly, but with service lives of decades for stainless and 20 years for batteries, secondary supply will not relieve near-term shortages. Companies like Redwood Materials and Moment Energy are building the bridge to a circular system, but the lag time is real.The conversation left me with a clear takeaway. Seabed mining is not an easy fix. The minerals are there in attractive grades, but the depth, cost, and governance challenges are immense. At the same time, demand for copper, nickel, and cobalt will keep rising, and prices will eventually force new sources to market. The industry has opportunities in recycling, substitution, and responsible development, but the old habits of hype and over-promising will have to be broken if it is to have a role in the critical minerals future.

Before it invaded Ukraine, Russia was Europe's single largest supplier of imported natural gas. But now that the European Union is considering an outright ban on all Russian gas by the end of 2027, Russia is pivoting to Asia, courting China as both a crucial new market for its gas and an important geostrategic ally. When Russian President Vladimir Putin traveled to China at the end of August, the visit produced a series of cooperation agreements. Among them: a deal between Gazprom and the China National Petroleum Corporation to advance the long-discussed Power of Siberia 2 pipeline, a massive project that, if completed, could send 50 billion cubic meters of Russian natural gas to China each year. But the announcement is short on many details, including pricing, financing, and a timeline. So what — beyond symbolism — does this deal actually deliver for both Russia and China in the short term? What prompted China to sign the agreement after years of delays? And what does it tell us about China's efforts to diversify its energy imports?  This week, Jason speaks with three scholars from the Center on Global Energy Policy (CGEP), Anne-Sophie Corbeau, Tatiana Mitrova, and Erica Downs, about the possible impacts of the Power of Siberia 2 pipeline agreement. The trio also recently co-authored a post about the PoS2 news on the CGEP website.   Anne-Sophie is a global research scholar at CGEP, where she focuses on hydrogen and natural gas. She previously worked as a senior analyst at BP and the International Energy Agency. Tatiana is a CGEP research fellow with twenty five years of experience dealing with Russian and global energy markets. Erica is a senior research scholar at CGEP, where she focuses on Chinese energy markets and geopolitics. Earlier in her career she held senior roles in the China Studies program of the CNA Corporation and at Eurasia Group. Credits: Hosted by Jason Bordoff and Bill Loveless. Produced by Mary Catherine O'Connor, Caroline Pitman, and Kyu Lee. Engineering by Gregory Vilfranc.  

We close out our Summer Playlist this week by welcoming Nobuo Tanaka, Executive Director Emeritus at the International Energy Agency, into the SmarterMarkets™ studio. David Greely sits down with Nobuo Tanaka to discuss how the energy trilemma of balancing energy security, affordability, and environmental sustainability is shaping the energy and geopolitical landscape facing Japan and Korea – and what it means for the future of LNG and nuclear power.

Kevin covers the following topics: Fusable's MC Advantage released their analysis of FMCSA data regarding crashes involving English Language Proficiency violators versus other violations; AI powered speed cameras can be used to find other violations; BP's latest oil and natural gas discovery; BP reports 2nd qtr. financial results; Paccar reported their 2nd qtr. results; Kevin has the details, sifts through the data, offers his insights, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and a few opinions along the way. Oil and gas prices react to an unexpected rise crude oil supply, sanctions on Russia may increase or decrease pending Trump-Putin meeting on Friday, the International Energy Agency's forecast for oil supply and OPEC+ forecast global oil demand.

Kevin covers the following topics: Fusable's MC Advantage released their analysis of FMCSA data regarding crashes involving English Language Proficiency violators versus other violations; AI powered speed cameras can be used to find other violations; BP's latest oil and natural gas discovery; BP reports 2nd qtr. financial results; Paccar reported their 2nd qtr. results; Kevin has the details, sifts through the data, offers his insights, puts the information into historical perspective, offers his insights and a few opinions along the way. Oil and gas prices react to an unexpected rise crude oil supply, sanctions on Russia may increase or decrease pending Trump-Putin meeting on Friday, the International Energy Agency's forecast for oil supply and OPEC+ forecast global oil demand.

Summer rewind: Greg Lindsay is an urban tech expert and a Senior Fellow at MIT. He's also a two-time Jeopardy champion and the only human to go undefeated against IBM's Watson. Greg joins thinkenergy to talk about how artificial intelligence (AI) is reshaping how we manage, consume, and produce energy—from personal devices to provincial grids, its rapid growth to the rising energy demand from AI itself. Listen in to learn how AI impacts our energy systems and what it means individually and industry-wide. Related links: ●       Greg Lindsay website: https://greglindsay.org/ ●       Greg Lindsay on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-lindsay-8b16952/ ●       International Energy Agency (IEA): https://www.iea.org/ ●       Trevor Freeman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-freeman-p-eng-cem-leed-ap-8b612114/ ●       Hydro Ottawa: https://hydroottawa.com/en    To subscribe using Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinkenergy/id1465129405   To subscribe using Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7wFz7rdR8Gq3f2WOafjxpl   To subscribe on Libsyn: http://thinkenergy.libsyn.com/ --- Subscribe so you don't miss a video: https://www.youtube.com/user/hydroottawalimited   Follow along on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hydroottawa   Stay in the know on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HydroOttawa   Keep up with the posts on X: https://twitter.com/thinkenergypod --- Transcript: Trevor Freeman  00:00 Hi everyone. Well, summer is here, and the think energy team is stepping back a bit to recharge and plan out some content for the next season. We hope all of you get some much needed downtime as well, but we aren't planning on leaving you hanging over the next few months, we will be re releasing some of our favorite episodes from the past year that we think really highlight innovation, sustainability and community. These episodes highlight the changing nature of how we use and manage energy, and the investments needed to expand, modernize and strengthen our grid in response to that. All of this driven by people and our changing needs and relationship to energy as we move forward into a cleaner, more electrified future, the energy transition, as we talk about many times on this show. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll be back with all new content in September. Until then, happy listening.   Trevor Freeman  00:55 Welcome to think energy, a podcast that dives into the fast changing world of energy through conversations with industry leaders, innovators and people on the front lines of the energy transition. Join me, Trevor Freeman, as I explore the traditional, unconventional and up and coming facets of the energy industry. If you have any thoughts feedback or ideas for topics we should cover, please reach out to us at think energy at hydro ottawa.com, Hi everyone. Welcome back. Artificial intelligence, or AI, is a term that you're likely seeing and hearing everywhere today, and with good reason, the effectiveness and efficiency of today's AI, along with the ever increasing applications and use cases mean that in just the past few years, AI went from being a little bit fringe, maybe a little bit theoretical to very real and likely touching everyone's day to day lives in ways that we don't even notice, and we're just at the beginning of what looks to be a wave of many different ways that AI will shape and influence our society and our lives in the years to come. And the world of energy is no different. AI has the potential to change how we manage energy at all levels, from our individual devices and homes and businesses all the way up to our grids at the local, provincial and even national and international levels. At the same time, AI is also a massive consumer of energy, and the proliferation of AI data centers is putting pressure on utilities for more and more power at an unprecedented pace. But before we dive into all that, I also think it will be helpful to define what AI is. After all, the term isn't new. Like me, many of our listeners may have grown up hearing about Skynet from Terminator, or how from 2001 A Space Odyssey, but those malignant, almost sentient versions of AI aren't really what we're talking about here today. And to help shed some light on both what AI is as well as what it can do and how it might influence the world of energy, my guest today is Greg Lindsay, to put it in technical jargon, Greg's bio is super neat, so I do want to take time to run through it properly. Greg is a non resident Senior Fellow of MIT's future urban collectives lab Arizona State University's threat casting lab and the Atlantic Council's Scowcroft center for strategy and security. Most recently, he was a 2022-2023 urban tech Fellow at Cornell Tech's Jacobs Institute, where he explored the implications of AI and augmented reality at an urban scale. Previously, he was an urbanist in resident, which is a pretty cool title, at BMW minis urban tech accelerator, urban X, as well as the director of Applied Research at Montreal's new cities and Founding Director of Strategy at its mobility focused offshoot, co motion. He's advised such firms as Intel, Samsung, Audi, Hyundai, IKEA and Starbucks, along with numerous government entities such as 10 Downing Street, us, Department of Energy and NATO. And finally, and maybe coolest of all, Greg is also a two time Jeopardy champion and the only human to go undefeated against IBM's Watson. So on that note, Greg Lindsey, welcome to the show.   Greg Lindsay  04:14 Great to be here. Thanks for having me. Trevor,   Trevor Freeman  04:16 So Greg, we're here to talk about AI and the impacts that AI is going to have on energy, but AI is a bit of one of those buzzwords that we hear out there in a number of different spheres today. So let's start by setting the stage of what exactly we're talking about. So what do we mean when we say AI or artificial intelligence?   Speaker 1  04:37 Well, I'd say the first thing to keep in mind is that it is neither artificial nor intelligence. It's actually composites of many human hands making it. And of course, it's not truly intelligent either. I think there's at least two definitions for the layman's purposes. One is statistical machine learning. You know that is the previous generation of AI, we could say, doing deep, deep statistical analysis, looking for patterns fitting to. Patterns doing prediction. There's a great book, actually, by some ut professors at monk called prediction machines, which that was a great way of thinking about machine learning and sense of being able to do large scale prediction at scale. And that's how I imagine hydro, Ottawa and others are using this to model out network efficiencies and predictive maintenance and all these great uses. And then the newer, trendier version, of course, is large language models, your quads, your chat gpts, your others, which are based on transformer models, which is a whole series of work that many Canadians worked on, including Geoffrey Hinton and others. And this is what has produced the seemingly magical abilities to produce text and images on demand and large scale analysis. And that is the real power hungry beast that we think of as AI today.   Trevor Freeman  05:42 Right! So different types of AI. I just want to pick those apart a little bit. When you say machine learning, it's kind of being able to repetitively look at something or a set of data over and over and over again. And because it's a computer, it can do it, you know, 1000s or millions of times a second, and learn what, learn how to make decisions based on that. Is that fair to say?   Greg Lindsay  06:06 That's fair to say. And the thing about that is, is like you can train it on an output that you already know, large language models are just vomiting up large parts of pattern recognition, which, again, can feel like magic because of our own human brains doing it. But yeah, machine learning, you can, you know, you can train it to achieve outcomes. You can overfit the models where it like it's trained too much in the past, but, yeah, it's a large scale probabilistic prediction of things, which makes it so powerful for certain uses.   Trevor Freeman  06:26 Yeah, one of the neatest explanations or examples I've seen is, you know, you've got these language models where it seems like this AI, whether it's chat, DBT or whatever, is writing really well, like, you know, it's improving our writing. It's making things sound better. And it seems like it's got a brain behind it, but really, what it's doing is it's going out there saying, What have millions or billions of other people written like this? And how can I take the best things of that? And it can just do that really quickly, and it's learned that that model, so that's super helpful to understand what we're talking about here. So obviously, in your work, you look at the impact of AI on a number of different aspects of our world, our society. What we're talking about here today is particularly the impact of AI when it comes to energy. And I'd like to kind of bucketize our conversation a little bit today, and the first area I want to look at is, what will ai do when it comes to energy for the average Canadian? Let's say so in my home, in my business, how I move around? So I'll start with that. It's kind of a high level conversation. Let's start talking about the different ways that AI will impact you know that our average listener here?   Speaker 1  07:41 Um, yeah, I mean, we can get into a discussion about what it means for the average Canadian, and then also, of course, what it means for Canada in the world as well, because I just got back from South by Southwest in Austin, and, you know, for the second, third year in row, AI was on everyone's lips. But really it's the energy. Is the is the bottleneck. It's the forcing factor. Everyone talked about it, the fact that all the data centers we can get into that are going to be built in the direction of energy. So, so, yeah, energy holds the key to the puzzle there. But, um, you know, from the average gain standpoint, I mean, it's a question of, like, how will these tools actually play out, you know, inside of the companies that are using this, right? And that was a whole other discussion too. It's like, okay, we've been playing around with these tools for two, three years now, what do they actually use to deliver value of your large language model? So I've been saying this for 10 years. If you look at the older stuff you could start with, like smart thermostats, even look at the potential savings of this, of basically using machine learning to optimize, you know, grid optimize patterns of usage, understanding, you know, the ebbs and flows of the grid, and being able to, you know, basically send instructions back and forth. So you know there's stats. You know that, basically you know that you know you could save 10 to 25% of electricity bills. You know, based on this, you could reduce your heating bills by 10 to 15% again, it's basically using this at very large scales of the scale of hydro Ottawa, bigger, to understand this sort of pattern usage. But even then, like understanding like how weather forecasts change, and pulling that data back in to basically make fine tuning adjustments to the thermostats and things like that. So that's one stands out. And then, you know, we can think about longer term. I mean, yeah, lots have been lots has been done on imagining, like electric mobility, of course, huge in Canada, and what that's done to sort of change the overall energy mix virtual power plants. This is something that I've studied, and we've been writing about at Fast Company. At Fast Company beyond for 20 years, imagining not just, you know, the ability to basically, you know, feed renewable electricity back into the grid from people's solar or from whatever sources they have there, but the ability of utilities to basically go in and fine tune, to have that sort of demand shaping as well. And then I think the most interesting stuff, at least in demos, and also blockchain, which has had many theoretical uses, and I've got to see a real one. But one of the best theoretical ones was being able to create neighborhood scale utilities. Basically my cul de sac could have one, and we could trade clean electrons off of our solar panels through our batteries and home scale batteries, using Blockchain to basically balance this out. Yeah, so there's lots of potential, but yeah, it comes back to the notion of people want cheaper utility bills. I did this piece 10 years ago for the Atlantic Council on this we looked at a multi country survey, and the only reason anybody wanted a smart home, which they just were completely skeptical about, was to get those cheaper utility bills. So people pay for that.   Trevor Freeman  10:19 I think it's an important thing to remember, obviously, especially for like the nerds like me, who part of my driver is, I like that cool new tech. I like that thing that I can play with and see my data. But for most people, no matter what we're talking about here, when it comes to that next technology, the goal is make my life a little bit easier, give me more time or whatever, and make things cheaper. And I think especially in the energy space, people aren't putting solar panels on their roof because it looks great. And, yeah, maybe people do think it looks great, but they're putting it up there because they want cheaper electricity. And it's going to be the same when it comes to batteries. You know, there's that add on of resiliency and reliability, but at the end of the day, yeah, I want my bill to be cheaper. And what I'm hearing from you is some of the things we've already seen, like smart thermostats get better as AI gets better. Is that fair to say?   Greg Lindsay  11:12 Well, yeah, on the machine learning side, that you know, you get ever larger data points. This is why data is the coin of the realm. This is why there's a race to collect data on everything. Is why every business model is data collection and everything. Because, yes, not only can they get better, but of course, you know, you compile enough and eventually start finding statistical inferences you never meant to look for. And this is why I've been involved. Just as a side note, for example, of cities that have tried to implement their own data collection of electric scooters and eventually electric vehicles so they could understand these kinds of patterns, it's really the key to anything. And so it's that efficiency throughput which raises some really interesting philosophical questions, particularly about AI like, this is the whole discussion on deep seek. Like, if you make the models more efficient, do you have a Jevons paradox, which is the paradox of, like, the more energy you save through efficiency, the more you consume because you've made it cheaper. So what does this mean that you know that Canadian energy consumption is likely to go up the cleaner and cheaper the electrons get. It's one of those bedeviling sort of functions.   Trevor Freeman  12:06 Yeah interesting. That's definitely an interesting way of looking at it. And you referenced this earlier, and I will talk about this. But at the macro level, the amount of energy needed for these, you know, AI data centers in order to do all this stuff is, you know, we're seeing that explode.   Greg Lindsay  12:22 Yeah, I don't know that. Canadian statistics my fingertips, but I brought this up at Fast Company, like, you know, the IEA, I think International Energy Agency, you know, reported a 4.3% growth in the global electricity grid last year, and it's gonna be 4% this year. That does not sound like much. That is the equivalent of Japan. We're adding in Japan every year to the grid for at least the next two to three years. Wow. And that, you know, that's global South, air conditioning and other needs here too, but that the data centers on top is like the tip of the spear. It's changed all this consumption behavior, where now we're seeing mothballed coal plants and new plants and Three Mile Island come back online, as this race for locking up electrons, for, you know, the race to build God basically, the number of people in AI who think they're literally going to build weekly godlike intelligences, they'll, they won't stop at any expense. And so they will buy as much energy as they can get.   Trevor Freeman  13:09 Yeah, well, we'll get to that kind of grid side of things in a minute. Let's stay at the home first. So when I look at my house, we talked about smart thermostats. We're seeing more and more automation when it comes to our homes. You know, we can program our lights and our door locks and all this kind of stuff. What does ai do in order to make sure that stuff is contributing to efficiency? So I want to do all those fun things, but use the least amount of energy possible.   Greg Lindsay  13:38 Well, you know, I mean, there's, again, there's various metrics there to basically, sort of, you know, program your lights. And, you know, Nest is, you know, Google. Nest is an example of this one, too, in terms of basically learning your ebb and flow and then figuring out how to optimize it over the course of the day. So you can do that, you know, we've seen, again, like the home level. We've seen not only the growth in solar panels, but also in those sort of home battery integration. I was looking up that Tesla Powerwall was doing just great in Canada, until the last couple of months. I assume so, but I it's been, it's been heartening to see that, yeah, this sort of embrace of home energy integration, and so being able to level out, like, peak flow off the grid, so Right? Like being able to basically, at moments of peak demand, to basically draw on your own local resources and reduce that overall strain. So there's been interesting stuff there. But I want to focus for a moment on, like, terms of thinking about new uses. Because, you know, again, going back to how AI will influence the home and automation. You know, Jensen Wong of Nvidia has talked about how this will be the year of robotics. Google, Gemini just applied their models to robotics. There's startups like figure there's, again, Tesla with their optimists, and, yeah, there's a whole strain of thought that we're about to see, like home robotics, perhaps a dream from like, the 50s. I think this is a very Disney World esque Epcot Center, yeah, with this idea of jetsy, yeah, of having home robots doing work. You can see concept videos a figure like doing the actual vacuuming. I mean, we invented Roombas to this, but, but it also, I, you know, I've done a lot of work. Our own thinking around electric delivery vehicles. We could talk a lot about drones. We could talk a lot about the little robots that deliver meals on the sidewalk. There's a lot of money in business models about increasing access and people needing to maybe move less, to drive and do all these trips to bring it to them. And that's a form of home automation, and that's all batteries. That is all stuff off the grid too. So AI is that enable those things, these things that can think and move and fly and do stuff and do services on your behalf, and so people might find this huge new source of demand from that as well.   Trevor Freeman  15:29 Yeah, that's I hadn't really thought about the idea that all the all these sort of conveniences and being able to summon them to our homes cause us to move around less, which also impacts transportation, which is another area I kind of want to get to. And I know you've, you've talked a little bit about E mobility, so where do you see that going? And then, how does AI accelerate that transition, or accelerate things happening in that space?   Greg Lindsay  15:56 Yeah, I mean, I again, obviously the EV revolutions here Canada like, one of the epicenters Canada, Norway there, you know, that still has the vehicle rebates and things. So, yeah. I mean, we've seen, I'm here in Montreal, I think we've got, like, you know, 30 to 13% of sales is there, and we've got our 2035, mandate. So, yeah. I mean, you see this push, obviously, to harness all of Canada's clean, mostly hydro electricity, to do this, and, you know, reduce its dependence on fossil fuels for either, you know, Climate Change Politics reasons, but also just, you know, variable energy prices. So all of that matters. But, you know, I think the key to, like the electric mobility revolution, again, is, is how it's going to merge with AI and it's, you know, it's not going to just be the autonomous, self driving car, which is sort of like the horseless carriage of autonomy. It's gonna be all this other stuff, you know. My friend Dan Hill was in China, and he was thinking about like, electric scooters, you know. And I mentioned this to hydro Ottawa, like, the electric scooter is one of the leading causes of how we've taken internal combustion engine vehicles offline across the world, mostly in China, and put people on clean electric motors. What happens when you take those and you make those autonomous, and you do it with, like, deep seek and some cameras, and you sort of weld it all together so you could have a world of a lot more stuff in motion, and not just this world where we have to drive as much. And that, to me, is really exciting, because that changes, like urban patterns, development patterns, changes how you move around life, those kinds of things as well. That's that might be a little farther out, but, but, yeah, this sort of like this big push to build out domestic battery industries, to build charging points and the sort of infrastructure there, I think it's going to go in direction, but it doesn't look anything like, you know, a sedan or an SUV that just happens to be electric.   Trevor Freeman  17:33 I think that's a the step change is change the drive train of the existing vehicles we have, you know, an internal combustion to a battery. The exponential change is exactly what you're saying. It's rethinking this.   Greg Lindsay  17:47 Yeah, Ramesam and others have pointed out, I mean, again, like this, you know, it's, it's really funny to see this pushback on EVs, you know. I mean, I love a good, good roar of an internal combustion engine myself, but, but like, you know, Ramesam was an energy analyst, has pointed out that, like, you know, EVS were more cost competitive with ice cars in 2018 that's like, nearly a decade ago. And yeah, the efficiency of electric motors, particularly regenerative braking and everything, it just blows the cost curves away of ice though they will become the equivalent of keeping a thorough brat around your house kind of thing. Yeah, so, so yeah, it's just, it's that overall efficiency of the drive train. And that's the to me, the interesting thing about both electric motors, again, of autonomy is like, those are general purpose technologies. They get cheaper and smaller as they evolve under Moore's Law and other various laws, and so they get to apply to more and more stuff.   Trevor Freeman  18:32 Yeah. And then when you think about once, we kind of figure that out, and we're kind of already there, or close to it, if not already there, then it's opening the door to those other things you're talking about. Of, well, do we, does everybody need to have that car in their driveway? Are we rethinking how we're actually just doing transportation in general? And do we need a delivery truck? Or can it be delivery scooter? Or what does that look like?   Greg Lindsay  18:54 Well, we had a lot of those discussions for a long time, particularly in the mobility space, right? Like, and like ride hailing, you know, like, oh, you know, that was always the big pitch of an Uber is, you know, your car's parked in your driveway, like 94% of the time. You know, what happens if you're able to have no mobility? Well, we've had 15 years of Uber and these kinds of services, and we still have as many cars. But people are also taking this for mobility. It's additive. And I raised this question, this notion of like, it's just sort of more and more, more options, more availability, more access. Because the same thing seems to be going on with energy now too. You know, listeners been following along, like the conversation in Houston, you know, a week or two ago at Sarah week, like it's the whole notion of energy realism. And, you know, there's the new book out, more is more is more, which is all about the fact that we've never had an energy transition. We just kept piling up. Like the world burned more biomass last year than it did in 1900 it burned more coal last year than it did at the peak of coal. Like these ages don't really end. They just become this sort of strata as we keep piling energy up on top of it. And you know, I'm trying to sound the alarm that we won't have an energy transition. What that means for climate change? But similar thing, it's. This rebound effect, the Jevons paradox, named after Robert Stanley Jevons in his book The question of coal, where he noted the fact that, like, England was going to need more and more coal. So it's a sobering thought. But, like, I mean, you know, it's a glass half full, half empty in many ways, because the half full is like increasing technological options, increasing changes in lifestyle. You can live various ways you want, but, but, yeah, it's like, I don't know if any of it ever really goes away. We just get more and more stuff,   Trevor Freeman  20:22 Exactly, well. And, you know, to hear you talk about the robotics side of things, you know, looking at the home, yeah, more, definitely more. Okay, so we talked about kind of home automation. We've talked about transportation, how we get around. What about energy management? And I think about this at the we'll talk about the utility side again in a little bit. But, you know, at my house, or for my own personal use in my life, what is the role of, like, sort of machine learning and AI, when it comes to just helping me manage my own energy better and make better decisions when it comes to energy? ,   Greg Lindsay  20:57 Yeah, I mean, this is where it like comes in again. And you know, I'm less and less of an expert here, but I've been following this sort of discourse evolve. And right? It's the idea of, you know, yeah, create, create. This the set of tools in your home, whether it's solar panels or batteries or, you know, or Two Way Direct, bi directional to the grid, however it works. And, yeah, and people, you know, given this option of savings, and perhaps, you know, other marketing messages there to curtail behavior. You know? I mean, I think the short answer the question is, like, it's an app people want, an app that tell them basically how to increase the efficiency of their house or how to do this. And I should note that like, this has like been the this is the long term insight when it comes to like energy and the clean tech revolution. Like my Emery Levin says this great line, which I've always loved, which is, people don't want energy. They want hot showers and cold beer. And, you know, how do you, how do you deliver those things through any combination of sticks and carrots, basically like that. So, So, hence, why? Like, again, like, you know, you know, power walls, you know, and, and, and, you know, other sort of AI controlled batteries here that basically just sort of smooth out to create the sort of optimal flow of electrons into your house, whether that's coming drive directly off the grid or whether it's coming out of your backup and then recharging that the time, you know, I mean, the surveys show, like, more than half of Canadians are interested in this stuff, you know, they don't really know. I've got one set here, like, yeah, 61% are interested in home energy tech, but only 27 understand, 27% understand how to optimize them. So, yeah. So people need, I think, perhaps, more help in handing that over. And obviously, what's exciting for the, you know, the utility level is, like, you know, again, aggregate all that individual behavior together and you get more models that, hope you sort of model this out, you know, at both greater scale and ever more fine grained granularity there. So, yeah, exactly. So I think it's really interesting, you know, I don't know, like, you know, people have gamified it. What was it? I think I saw, like, what is it? The affordability fund trust tried to basically gamify AI energy apps, and it created various savings there. But a lot of this is gonna be like, as a combination like UX design and incentives design and offering this to people too, about, like, why you should want this and money's one reason, but maybe there's others.   Trevor Freeman  22:56 Yeah, and we talk about in kind of the utility sphere, we talk about how customers, they don't want all the data, and then have to go make their own decisions. They want those decisions to be made for them, and they want to say, look, I want to have you tell me the best rate plan to be on. I want to have you automatically switch me to the best rate plan when my consumption patterns change and my behavior chat patterns change. That doesn't exist today, but sort of that fast decision making that AI brings will let that become a reality sometime in the future,   Greg Lindsay  23:29 And also in theory, this is where LLMs come into play. Is like, you know, to me, what excites me the most about that is the first time, like having a true natural language interface, like having being able to converse with an, you know, an AI, let's hopefully not chat bot. I think we're moving out on chat bots, but some sort of sort of instantiation of an AI to be like, what plan should I be on? Can you tell me what my behavior is here and actually having some sort of real language conversation with it? Not decision trees, not event statements, not chat bots.   Trevor Freeman  23:54 Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so we've kind of teased around this idea of looking at the utility levels, obviously, at hydro Ottawa, you referenced this just a minute ago. We look at all these individual cases, every home that has home automation or solar storage, and we want to aggregate that and understand what, what can we do to help manage the grid, help manage all these new energy needs, shift things around. So let's talk a little bit about the role that AI can play at the utility scale in helping us manage the grid.   Greg Lindsay  24:28 All right? Well, yeah, there's couple ways to approach it. So one, of course, is like, let's go back to, like, smart meters, right? Like, and this is where I don't know how many hydro Ottawa has, but I think, like, BC Hydro has like, 2 million of them, sometimes they get politicized, because, again, this gets back to this question of, like, just, just how much nanny state you want. But, you know, you know, when you reach the millions, like, yeah, you're able to get that sort of, you know, obviously real time, real time usage, real time understanding. And again, if you can do that sort of grid management piece where you can then push back, it's visual game changer. But, but yeah. I mean, you know, yeah, be. See hydro is pulling in. I think I read like, like, basically 200 million data points a day. So that's a lot to train various models on. And, you know, I don't know exactly the kind of savings they have, but you can imagine there, whether it's, you know, them, or Toronto Hydro, or hydro Ottawa and others creating all these monitoring points. And again, this is the thing that bedells me, by the way, just philosophically about modern life, the notion of like, but I don't want you to be collecting data off me at all times, but look at what you can do if you do It's that constant push pull of some sort of combination of privacy and agency, and then just the notion of like statistics, but, but there you are, but, but, yeah, but at the grid level, then I mean, like, yeah. I mean, you can sort of do the same thing where, like, you know, I mean, predictive maintenance is the obvious one, right? I have been writing about this for large enterprise software companies for 20 years, about building these data points, modeling out the lifetime of various important pieces equipment, making sure you replace them before you have downtime and terrible things happen. I mean, as we're as we're discussing this, look at poor Heathrow Airport. I am so glad I'm not flying today, electrical substation blowing out two days of the world's most important hub offline. So that's where predictive maintenance comes in from there. And, yeah, I mean, I, you know, I again, you know, modeling out, you know, energy flow to prevent grid outages, whether that's, you know, the ice storm here in Quebec a couple years ago. What was that? April 23 I think it was, yeah, coming up in two years. Or our last ice storm, we're not the big one, but that one, you know, where we had big downtime across the grid, like basically monitoring that and then I think the other big one for AI is like, Yeah, is this, this notion of having some sort of decision support as well, too, and sense of, you know, providing scenarios and modeling out at scale the potential of it? And I don't think, I don't know about this in a grid case, but the most interesting piece I wrote for Fast Company 20 years ago was an example, ago was an example of this, which was a fledgling air taxi startup, but they were combining an agent based model, so using primitive AI to create simple rules for individual agents and build a model of how they would behave, which you can create much more complex models. Now we could talk about agents and then marrying that to this kind of predictive maintenance and operations piece, and marrying the two together. And at that point, you could have a company that didn't exist, but that could basically model itself in real time every day in the life of what it is. You can create millions and millions and millions of Monte Carlo operations. And I think that's where perhaps both sides of AI come together truly like the large language models and agents, and then the predictive machine learning. And you could basically hydro or others, could build this sort of deep time machine where you can model out all of these scenarios, millions and millions of years worth, to understand how it flows and contingencies as well. And that's where it sort of comes up. So basically something happens. And like, not only do you have a set of plans, you have an AI that has done a million sets of these plans, and can imagine potential next steps of this, or where to deploy resources. And I think in general, that's like the most powerful use of this, going back to prediction machines and just being able to really model time in a way that we've never had that capability before. And so you probably imagine the use is better than I.   Trevor Freeman  27:58 Oh man, it's super fascinating, and it's timely. We've gone through the last little while at hydro Ottawa, an exercise of updating our playbook for emergencies. So when there are outages, what kind of outage? What's the sort of, what are the trigger points to go from, you know, what we call a level one to a level two to level three. But all of this is sort of like people hours that are going into that, and we're thinking through these scenarios, and we've got a handful of them, and you're just kind of making me think, well, yeah, what if we were able to model that out? And you bring up this concept of agents, let's tease into that a little bit explain what you mean when you're talking about agents.   Greg Lindsay  28:36 Yeah, so agentic systems, as the term of art is, AI instantiations that have some level of autonomy. And the archetypal example of this is the Stanford Smallville experiment, where they took basically a dozen large language models and they gave it an architecture where they could give it a little bit of backstory, ruminate on it, basically reflect, think, decide, and then act. And in this case, they used it to plan a Valentine's Day party. So they played out real time, and the LLM agents, like, even played matchmaker. They organized the party, they sent out invitations, they did these sorts of things. Was very cute. They put it out open source, and like, three weeks later, another team of researchers basically put them to work writing software programs. So you can see they organized their own workflow. They made their own decisions. There was a CTO. They fact check their own work. And this is evolving into this grand vision of, like, 1000s, millions of agents, just like, just like you spin up today an instance of Amazon Web Services to, like, host something in the cloud. You're going to spin up an agent Nvidia has talked about doing with healthcare and others. So again, coming back to like, the energy implications of that, because it changes the whole pattern. Instead of huge training runs requiring giant data centers. You know, it's these agents who are making all these calls and doing more stuff at the edge, but, um, but yeah, in this case, it's the notion of, you know, what can you put the agents to work doing? And I bring this up again, back to, like, predictive maintenance, or for hydro Ottawa, there's another amazing paper called virtual in real life. And I chatted with one of the principal authors. It created. A half dozen agents who could play tour guide, who could direct you to a coffee shop, who do these sorts of things, but they weren't doing it in a virtual world. They were doing it in the real one. And to do it in the real world, you took the agent, you gave them a machine vision capability, so added that model so they could recognize objects, and then you set them loose inside a digital twin of the world, in this case, something very simple, Google Street View. And so in the paper, they could go into like New York Central Park, and they could count every park bench and every waste bin and do it in seconds and be 99% accurate. And so agents were monitoring the landscape. Everything's up, because you can imagine this in the real world too, that we're going to have all the time. AIS roaming the world, roaming these virtual maps, these digital twins that we build for them and constantly refresh from them, from camera data, from sensor data, from other stuff, and tell us what this is. And again, to me, it's really exciting, because that's finally like an operating system for the internet of things that makes sense, that's not so hardwired that you can ask agents, can you go out and look for this for me? Can you report back on this vital system for me? And they will be able to hook into all of these kinds of representations of real time data where they're emerging from, and give you aggregated reports on this one. And so, you know, I think we have more visibility in real time into the real world than we've ever had before.   Trevor Freeman  31:13 Yeah, I want to, I want to connect a few dots here for our listeners. So bear with me for a second. Greg. So for our listeners, there was a podcast episode we did about a year ago on our grid modernization roadmap, and we talked about one of the things we're doing with grid modernization at hydro Ottawa and utilities everywhere doing this is increasing the sensor data from our grid. So we're, you know, right now, we've got visibility sort of to our station level, sometimes one level down to some switches. But in the future, we'll have sensors everywhere on our grid, every switch, every device on our grid, will have a sensor gathering data. Obviously, you know, like you said earlier, millions and hundreds of millions of data points every second coming in. No human can kind of make decisions on that, and what you're describing is, so now we've got all this data points, we've got a network of information out there, and you could create this agent to say, Okay, you are. You're my transformer agent. Go out there and have a look at the run temperature of every transformer on the network, and tell me where the anomalies are, which ones are running a half a degree or two degrees warmer than they should be, and report back. And now I know hydro Ottawa, that the controller, the person sitting in the room, knows, Hey, we should probably go roll a truck and check on that transformer, because maybe it's getting end of life. Maybe it's about to go and you can do that across the entire grid. That's really fascinating,   Greg Lindsay  32:41 And it's really powerful, because, I mean, again, these conversations 20 years ago at IoT, you know you're going to have statistical triggers, and you would aggregate these data coming off this, and there was a lot of discussion there, but it was still very, like hardwired, and still very Yeah, I mean, I mean very probabilistic, I guess, for a word that went with agents like, yeah, you've now created an actual thing that can watch those numbers and they can aggregate from other systems. I mean, lots, lots of potential there hasn't quite been realized, but it's really exciting stuff. And this is, of course, where that whole direction of the industry is flowing. It's on everyone's lips, agents.   Trevor Freeman  33:12 Yeah. Another term you mentioned just a little bit ago that I want you to explain is a digital twin. So tell us what a digital twin is.   Greg Lindsay  33:20 So a digital twin is, well, the matrix. Perhaps you could say something like this for listeners of a certain age, but the digital twin is the idea of creating a model of a piece of equipment, of a city, of the world, of a system. And it is, importantly, it's physics based. It's ideally meant to represent and capture the real time performance of the physical object it's based on, and in this digital representation, when something happens in the physical incarnation of it, it triggers a corresponding change in state in the digital twin, and then vice versa. In theory, you know, you could have feedback loops, again, a lot of IoT stuff here, if you make changes virtually, you know, perhaps it would cause a change in behavior of the system or equipment, and the scales can change from, you know, factory equipment. Siemens, for example, does a lot of digital twin work on this. You know, SAP, big, big software companies have thought about this. But the really crazy stuff is, like, what Nvidia is proposing. So first they started with a digital twin. They very modestly called earth two, where they were going to model all the weather and climate systems of the planet down to like the block level. There's a great demo of like Jensen Wong walking you through a hurricane, typhoons striking the Taipei, 101, and how, how the wind currents are affecting the various buildings there, and how they would change that more recently, what Nvidia is doing now is, but they just at their big tech investor day, they just partner with General Motors and others to basically do autonomous cars. And what's crucial about it, they're going to train all those autonomous vehicles in an NVIDIA built digital twin in a matrix that will act, that will be populated by agents that will act like people, people ish, and they will be able to run millions of years of autonomous vehicle training in this and this is how they plan to catch up to. Waymo or, you know, if Tesla's robotaxis are ever real kind of thing, you know, Waymo built hardwired like trained on real world streets, and that's why they can only operate in certain operating domain environments. Nvidia is gambling that with large language models and transformer models combined with digital twins, you can do these huge leapfrog effects where you can basically train all sorts of synthetic agents in real world behavior that you have modeled inside the machine. So again, that's the kind, that's exactly the kind of, you know, environment that you're going to train, you know, your your grid of the future on for modeling out all your contingency scenarios.   Trevor Freeman  35:31 Yeah, again, you know, for to bring this to the to our context, a couple of years ago, we had our the direcco. It's a big, massive windstorm that was one of the most damaging storms that we've had in Ottawa's history, and we've made some improvements since then, and we've actually had some great performance since then. Imagine if we could model that derecho hitting our grid from a couple different directions and figure out, well, which lines are more vulnerable to wind speeds, which lines are more vulnerable to flying debris and trees, and then go address that and do something with that, without having to wait for that storm to hit. You know, once in a decade or longer, the other use case that we've talked about on this one is just modeling what's happening underground. So, you know, in an urban environments like Ottawa, like Montreal, where you are, there's tons of infrastructure under the ground, sewer pipes, water pipes, gas lines, electrical lines, and every time the city wants to go and dig up a road and replace that road, replace that sewer, they have to know what's underground. We want to know what's underground there, because our infrastructure is under there. As the electric utility. Imagine if you had a model where you can it's not just a map. You can actually see what's happening underground and determine what makes sense to go where, and model out these different scenarios of if we underground this line or that line there. So lots of interesting things when it comes to a digital twin. The digital twin and Agent combination is really interesting as well, and setting those agents loose on a model that they can play with and understand and learn from. So talk a little bit about.   Greg Lindsay  37:11 that. Yeah. Well, there's a couple interesting implications just the underground, you know, equipment there. One is interesting because in addition to, like, you know, you know, having captured that data through mapping and other stuff there, and having agents that could talk about it. So, you know, next you can imagine, you know, I've done some work with augmented reality XR. This is sort of what we're seeing again, you know, meta Orion has shown off their concept. Google's brought back Android XR. Meta Ray Bans are kind of an example of this. But that's where this data will come from, right? It's gonna be people wearing these wearables in the world, capturing all this camera data and others that's gonna be fed into these digital twins to refresh them. Meta has a particularly scary demo where you know where you the user, the wearer leaves their keys on their coffee table and asks metas, AI, where their coffee where their keys are, and it knows where they are. It tells them and goes back and shows them some data about it. I'm like, well, to do that, meta has to have a complete have a complete real time map of your entire house. What could go wrong. And that's what all these companies aspire to of reality. So, but yeah, you can imagine, you know, you can imagine a worker. And I've worked with a startup out of urban X, a Canada startup, Canadian startup called context steer. And you know, is the idea of having real time instructions and knowledge manuals available to workers, particularly predictive maintenance workers and line workers. So you can imagine a technician dispatched to deal with this cut in the pavement and being able to see with XR and overlay of like, what's actually under there from the digital twin, having an AI basically interface with what's sort of the work order, and basically be your assistant that can help you walk you through it, in case, you know, you run into some sort of complication there, hopefully that won't be, you know, become like, turn, turn by turn, directions for life that gets into, like, some of the questions about what we wanted out of our workforce. But there's some really interesting combinations of those things, of like, you know, yeah, mapping a world for AIS, ais that can understand it, that could ask questions in it, that can go probe it, that can give you advice on what to do in it. All those things are very close for good and for bad.   Trevor Freeman  39:03 You kind of touched on my next question here is, how do we make sure this is all in the for good or mostly in the for good category, and not the for bad category you talk in one of the papers that you wrote about, you know, AI and augmented reality in particular, really expanding the attack surface for malicious actors. So we're creating more opportunities for whatever the case may be, if it's hacking or if it's malware, or if it's just, you know, people that are up to nefarious things. How do we protect against that? How do we make sure that our systems are safe that the users of our system. So in our case, our customers, their data is safe, their the grid is safe. How do we make sure that?   Greg Lindsay  39:49 Well, the very short version is, whatever we're spending on cybersecurity, we're not spending enough. And honestly, like everybody who is no longer learning to code, because we can be a quad or ChatGPT to do it, I. Is probably there should be a whole campaign to repurpose a big chunk of tech workers into cybersecurity, into locking down these systems, into training ethical systems. There's a lot of work to be done there. But yeah, that's been the theme for you know that I've seen for 10 years. So that paper I mentioned about sort of smart homes, the Internet of Things, and why people would want a smart home? Well, yeah, the reason people were skeptical is because they saw it as basically a giant attack vector. My favorite saying about this is, is, there's a famous Arthur C Clarke quote that you know, any sufficiently advanced technology is magic Tobias Ravel, who works at Arup now does their head of foresight has this great line, any sufficiently advanced hacking will feel like a haunting meaning. If you're in a smart home that's been hacked, it will feel like you're living in a haunted house. Lights will flicker on and off, and systems will turn and go haywire. It'll be like you're living with a possessed house. And that's true of cities or any other systems. So we need to do a lot of work on just sort of like locking that down and securing that data, and that is, you know, we identified, then it has to go all the way up and down the supply chain, like you have to make sure that there is, you know, a chain of custody going back to when components are made, because a lot of the attacks on nest, for example. I mean, you want to take over a Google nest, take it off the wall and screw the back out of it, which is a good thing. It's not that many people are prying open our thermostats, but yeah, if you can get your hands on it, you can do a lot of these systems, and you can do it earlier in the supply chain and sorts of infected pieces and things. So there's a lot to be done there. And then, yeah, and then, yeah, and then there's just a question of, you know, making sure that the AIs are ethically trained and reinforced. And, you know, a few people want to listeners, want to scare themselves. You can go out and read some of the stuff leaking out of anthropic and others and make clot of, you know, models that are trying to hide their own alignments and trying to, like, basically copy themselves. Again, I don't believe that anything things are alive or intelligent, but they exhibit these behaviors as part of the probabilistic that's kind of scary. So there's a lot to be done there. But yeah, we worked on this, the group that I do foresight with Arizona State University threat casting lab. We've done some work for the Secret Service and for NATO and, yeah, there'll be, you know, large scale hackings on infrastructure. Basically the equivalent can be the equivalent can be the equivalent to a weapons of mass destruction attack. We saw how Russia targeted in 2014 the Ukrainian grid and hacked their nuclear plans. This is essential infrastructure more important than ever, giving global geopolitics say the least, so that needs to be under consideration. And I don't know, did I scare you enough yet? What are the things we've talked through here that, say the least about, you know, people being, you know, tricked and incepted by their AI girlfriends, boyfriends. You know people who are trying to AI companions. I can't possibly imagine what could go wrong there.   Trevor Freeman  42:29 I mean, it's just like, you know, I don't know if this is 15 or 20, or maybe even 25 years ago now, like, it requires a whole new level of understanding when we went from a completely analog world to a digital world and living online, and people, I would hope, to some degree, learned to be skeptical of things on the internet and learned that this is that next level. We now need to learn the right way of interacting with this stuff. And as you mentioned, building the sort of ethical code and ethical guidelines into these language models into the AI. Learning is pretty critical for our listeners. We do have a podcast episode on cybersecurity. I encourage you to go listen to it and reassure yourself that, yes, we are thinking about this stuff. And thanks, Greg, you've given us lots more to think about in that area as well. When it comes to again, looking back at utilities and managing the grid, one thing we're going to see, and we've talked a lot about this on the show, is a lot more distributed generation. So we're, you know, the days of just the central, large scale generation, long transmission lines that being the only generation on the grid. Those days are ending. We're going to see more distributed generations, solar panels on roofs, batteries. How does AI help a utility manage those better, interact with those better get more value out of those things?   Greg Lindsay  43:51 I guess that's sort of like an extension of some of the trends I was talking about earlier, which is the notion of, like, being able to model complex systems. I mean, that's effectively it, right, like you've got an increasingly complex grid with complex interplays between it, you know, figuring out how to basically based on real world performance, based on what you're able to determine about where there are correlations and codependencies in the grid, where point where choke points could emerge, where overloading could happen, and then, yeah, basically, sort of building that predictive system to Basically, sort of look for what kind of complex emergent behavior comes out of as you keep adding to it and and, you know, not just, you know, based on, you know, real world behavior, but being able to dial that up to 11, so to speak, and sort of imagine sort of these scenarios, or imagine, you know, what, what sort of long term scenarios look like in terms of, like, what the mix, how the mix changes, how the geography changes, all those sorts of things. So, yeah, I don't know how that plays out in the short term there, but it's this combination, like I'm imagining, you know, all these different components playing SimCity for real, if one will.   Trevor Freeman  44:50 And being able to do it millions and millions and millions of times in a row, to learn every possible iteration and every possible thing that might happen. Very cool. Okay. So last kind of area I want to touch on you did mention this at the beginning is the the overall power implications of of AI, of these massive data centers, obviously, at the utility, that's something we are all too keenly aware of. You know, the stat that that I find really interesting is a normal Google Search compared to, let's call it a chat GPT search. That chat GPT search, or decision making, requires 10 times the amount of energy as that just normal, you know, Google Search looking out from a database. Do you see this trend? I don't know if it's a trend. Do you see this continuing like AI is just going to use more power to do its decision making, or will we start to see more efficiencies there? And the data centers will get better at doing what they do with less energy. What is the what does the future look like in that sector?   Greg Lindsay  45:55 All the above. It's more, is more, is more! Is the trend, as far as I can see, and every decision maker who's involved in it. And again, Jensen Wong brought this up at the big Nvidia Conference. That basically he sees the only constraint on this continuing is availability of energy supplies keep it going and South by Southwest. And in some other conversations I've had with bandwidth companies, telcos, like laying 20 lumen technologies, United States is laying 20,000 new miles of fiber optic cables. They've bought 10% of Corning's total fiber optic output for the next couple of years. And their customers are the hyperscalers. They're, they're and they're rewiring the grid. That's why, I think it's interesting. This has something, of course, for thinking about utilities, is, you know, the point to point Internet of packet switching and like laying down these big fiber routes, which is why all the big data centers United States, the majority of them, are in north of them are in Northern Virginia, is because it goes back to the network hub there. Well, lumen is now wiring this like basically this giant fabric, this patchwork, which can connect data center to data center, and AI to AI and cloud to cloud, and creating this entirely new environment of how they are all directly connected to each other through some of this dedicated fiber. And so you can see how this whole pattern is changing. And you know, the same people are telling me that, like, yeah, the where they're going to build this fiber, which they wouldn't tell me exactly where, because it's very tradable, proprietary information, but, um, but it's following the energy supplies. It's following the energy corridors to the American Southwest, where there's solar and wind in Texas, where you can get natural gas, where you can get all these things. It will follow there. And I of course, assume the same is true in Canada as we build out our own sovereign data center capacity for this. So even, like deep seek, for example, you know, which is, of course, the hyper efficient Chinese model that spooked the markets back in January. Like, what do you mean? We don't need a trillion dollars in capex? Well, everyone's quite confident, including again, Jensen Wong and everybody else that, yeah, the more efficient models will increase this usage. That Jevons paradox will play out once again, and we'll see ever more of it. To me, the question is, is like as how it changes? And of course, you know, you know, this is a bubble. Let's, let's, let's be clear, data centers are a bubble, just like railroads in 1840 were a bubble. And there will be a bust, like not everyone's investments will pencil out that infrastructure will remain maybe it'll get cheaper. We find new uses for it, but it will, it will eventually bust at some point and that's what, to me, is interesting about like deep seeking, more efficient models. Is who's going to make the wrong investments in the wrong places at the wrong time? But you know, we will see as it gathers force and agents, as I mentioned. You know, they don't require, as much, you know, these monstrous training runs at City sized data centers. You know, meta wanted to spend $200 billion on a single complex, the open AI, Microsoft, Stargate, $500 billion Oracle's. Larry Ellison said that $100 billion is table stakes, which is just crazy to think about. And, you know, he's permitting three nukes on site. So there you go. I mean, it'll be fascinating to see if we have a new generation of private, private generation, right, like, which is like harkening all the way back to, you know, the early electrical grid and companies creating their own power plants on site, kind of stuff. Nicholas Carr wrote a good book about that one, about how we could see from the early electrical grid how the cloud played out. They played out very similarly. The AI cloud seems to be playing out a bit differently. So, so, yeah, I imagine that as well, but, but, yeah, well, inference happen at the edge. We need to have more distributed generation, because you're gonna have AI agents that are going to be spending more time at the point of request, whether that's a laptop or your phone or a light post or your autonomous vehicle, and it's going to need more of that generation and charging at the edge. That, to me, is the really interesting question. Like, you know, when these current generation models hit their limits, and just like with Moore's law, like, you know, you have to figure out other efficiencies in designing chips or designing AIS, how will that change the relationship to the grid? And I don't think anyone knows quite for sure yet, which is why they're just racing to lock up as many long term contracts as they possibly can just get it all, core to the market.   Trevor Freeman  49:39 Yeah, it's just another example, something that comes up in a lot of different topics that we cover on this show. Everything, obviously, is always related to the energy transition. But the idea that the energy transition is really it's not just changing fuel sources, like we talked about earlier. It's not just going from internal combustion to a battery. It's rethinking the. Relationship with energy, and it's rethinking how we do things. And, yeah, you bring up, like, more private, massive generation to deal with these things. So really, that whole relationship with energy is on scale to change. Greg, this has been a really interesting conversation. I really appreciate it. Lots to pack into this short bit of time here. We always kind of wrap up our conversations with a series of questions to our guests. So I'm going to fire those at you here. And this first one, I'm sure you've got lots of different examples here, so feel free to give more than one. What is a book that you've read that you think everybody should read?   Greg Lindsay  50:35 The first one that comes to mind is actually William Gibson's Neuromancer, which is which gave the world the notion of cyberspace and so many concepts. But I think about it a lot today. William Gibson, Vancouver based author, about how much in that book is something really think about. There is a digital twin in it, an agent called the Dixie flatline. It's like a former program where they cloned a digital twin of him. I've actually met an engineering company, Thornton Thomas Eddie that built a digital twin of one of their former top experts. So like that became real. Of course, the matrix is becoming real the Turing police. Yeah, there's a whole thing in there where there's cops to make sure that AIS don't get smarter. I've been thinking a lot about, do we need Turing police? The EU will probably create them. And so that's something where you know the proof, again, of like science fiction, its ability in world building to really make you think about these implications and help for contingency planning. A lot of foresight experts I work with think about sci fi, and we use sci fi for exactly that reason. So go read some classic cyberpunk, everybody.   Trevor Freeman  51:32 Awesome. So same question. But what's a movie or a show that you think everybody should take a look at?   Greg Lindsay  51:38 I recently watched the watch the matrix with ideas, which is fun to think about, where the villains are, agents that villains are agents. That's funny how that terms come back around. But the other one was thinking about the New Yorker recently read a piece on global demographics and the fact that, you know, globally, less and less children. And it made several references to Alfonso Quons, Children of Men from 2006 which is, sadly, probably the most prescient film of the 21st Century. Again, a classic to watch, about imagining in a world where we don't where you where you lose faith in the future, what happens, and a world that is not having children as a world that's losing faith in its own future. So that's always haunted me.   Trevor Freeman  52:12 It's funny both of those movies. So I've got kids as they get, you know, a little bit older, a little bit older, we start introducing more and more movies. And I've got this list of movies that are just, you know, impactful for my own adolescent years and growing up. And both matrix and Children of Men are on that list of really good movies that I just need my kids to get a little bit older, and then I'm excited to watch with them. If someone offered you a free round trip flight anywhere in the world, where would you go?   Greg Lindsay  52:40 I would go to Venice, Italy for the Architecture Biennale, which I will be on a plane in May, going to anyway. And the theme this year is intelligence, artificial, natural and collective. So it should be interesting to see the world's brightest architects. Let's see what we got. But yeah, Venice, every time, my favorite city in the world.   Trevor Freeman  52:58 Yeah, it's pretty wonderful. Who is someone that you admire?   Greg Lindsay  53:01 Great question.

In this episode of Energy Evolution, we explore how heat waves are driving fundamental shifts in European power demand patterns and stress-testing the region's energy infrastructure. Host Eklavya Gupte speaks with Glenn Rickson, head of short-term European power analysis at S&P Global Commodity Insights, who breaks down the supply and demand pressures that are emerging from warmer temperatures. Correspondent Camilla Naschert interviews Brian Motherway, head of the office of energy efficiency and inclusive transitions at the International Energy Agency, on Europe's growing appetite for air conditioning and its impact on EU climate and energy efficiency goals. Energy Evolution has merged with Platts Future Energy, and episodes are now regularly published on Tuesdays. Links: EEX France Fin Baseload power AAOAM00 Platts UK GTMA Baseload power FUKXY01Western Europe endures record June heat stress: EU's climate monitor (subscriber content)  

In this episode of Energy Evolution, we explore how heat waves are driving fundamental shifts in European power demand patterns and stress-testing the region's energy infrastructure. Host Eklavya Gupte speaks with Glenn Rickson, head of short-term European power analysis at S&P Global Commodity Insights, who breaks down the supply and demand pressures that are emerging from warmer temperatures. Correspondent Camilla Naschert interviews Brian Motherway, head of the office of energy efficiency and inclusive transitions at the International Energy Agency, on Europe's growing appetite for air conditioning and its impact on EU climate and energy efficiency goals. Energy Evolution has merged with Platts Future Energy, and episodes are now regularly published on Tuesdays. Links: EEX France Fin Baseload power AAOAM00 Platts UK GTMA Baseload power FUKXY01Western Europe endures record June heat stress: EU's climate monitor (subscriber content)  

Last month we set a new household record. Blame the baby, the extra washing, the old house, the cold weather, the dehumidifier, and whatever else. But despite booking in hours of free electricity across the month, between the gas heating and electricity, our family energy bill for June 2025 was the highest it's ever been: $540. I know we're very comfortable relative to so many families, but even so, that has gotta change. But while of course there are things we as a family can improve upon, I'm very aware that there are only so many gains to be won from policing light switches and shower times. I'm seriously wondering about solar. I read an amazing set of stats in the New Yorker magazine this week about the scale and development of solar energy around the world. This is all big picture stuff... mainly the huge industrial solar farms, rather than household solar, but a couple of these numbers absolutely blew me away. First of all, solar power is now growing faster than any power source in history. Globally, a gigawatt's worth of solar panels is being installed every fifteen hours on average, which means if you set a stopwatch running right now, new solar panels equal to the entire electricity generation capacity of New Zealand will be installed and running by midnight on Thursday night. Next week? The same. And the week after that. And the week after that. Another fact. It took 68 years from the invention of solar panels for the world to install the first terawatt of solar generation. That was 2022. It took just two years to install the second terawatt of generation. And it's gonna take a year to 18 months to install the third. By next year, the International Energy Agency says solar energy will generate more electricity than all the world's nuclear power plants combined. By 2029, more than hydro dams. By 2031 more than gas and by 2032, more than coal. Globally, we are generating a third more energy through wind and solar than this time last year. The Chinese are miles ahead of anyone else on this, but even gas-guzzling America is changing fast. Why? Are we doing it because it's the right thing? The moral thing? The climate-conscious thing? No. The huge surge in solar is being driven by economics. Put simply, solar power is way, way, way cheaper than other forms of electricity generation. Between batteries and solar panels, the technology is only getting better and only getting cheaper. Ten years from now, as reported in that article, the International Energy Agency says solar power will become the world's main source of all energy... not just electricity, but all energy. I'm not naïve about solar's limitations. Few of us need reminding —especially given the last couple of weeks— that there are times when the sun doesn't shine. And right now, in the depths of winter, when our family's energy bill is the highest, is the time of year when solar panels on our rooftop would likely be generating the least electricity. But if I take a step back and think about solar in the context of the whole year, it makes increasing economic sense to me. In summer I reckon I could wipe off a massive chunk from our energy bill. And whatever savings I make then can contribute to offsetting the bills in the middle of winter. All I knew when I looked at my energy bill this week is the status quo isn't gonna be sustainable for our family. Rather than debating if we'll go to solar, the only question for us now, is when. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Artificial intelligence is transforming our world — and the energy sector. Earlier this year, the International Energy Agency (IEA) released a comprehensive report examining both AI's projected energy demands and how it  might reshape energy systems. But while headlines often raise alarms around electricity demand growth, the reality is more nuanced and complex. While data centers currently account for just 1.5% of global electricity use, that share is expected to double by 2030, driven largely by the growth of AI. In some regions, particularly in the US, data centers could account for nearly half of all electricity demand growth in the coming years. So how should we understand the relationship between AI and energy? What does this mean for power systems around the world? Is artificial intelligence a friend or foe to the clean energy transition? This week, Jason Bordoff speaks with Laura Cozzi, about the IEA's findings on AI's energy demands. Laura is the chief energy modeler at the International Energy Agency, and its director of sustainability, technology, and outlooks. She oversees the IEA's analytical work on energy, climate, and economic modeling, and led the team that produced the agency's report on artificial intelligence and energy. Credits: Hosted by Jason Bordoff and Bill Loveless. Produced by Mary Catherine O'Connor, Caroline Pitman, and Kyu Lee. Engineering by Gregory Vilfranc.  

The U.S. Commerce Department released the May Retail Sales Report; Kevin discusses the details and offers his insights. President Trump accomplished something no other President has ever done and he just did it again; Kevin reveals the details. GM's quickest sports car ever built; Kevin discusses this. President Trump and U.K. Prime Minster Starmer reached a trade agreement; Kevin explains, reviews the details and offers his insights. Estes Express Lines announced that they are increasing its terminal capacity; Kevin has the details and the cities involved. Oil and gas prices react to the International Energy Agency's global oil supply forecast, geopolitical events, potential production and supply route disruptions.

The U.S. Commerce Department released the May Retail Sales Report; Kevin discusses the details and offers his insights. President Trump accomplished something no other President has ever done and he just did it again; Kevin reveals the details. GM's quickest sports car ever built; Kevin discusses this. President Trump and U.K. Prime Minster Starmer reached a trade agreement; Kevin explains, reviews the details and offers his insights. Estes Express Lines announced that they are increasing its terminal capacity; Kevin has the details and the cities involved. Oil and gas prices react to the International Energy Agency's global oil supply forecast, geopolitical events, potential production and supply route disruptions.

oday, we return to energy and AI. What will AI mean in terms of global energy consumption up to 2030 and beyond? And could that be offset by efficiencies and transformations generated by AI in our daily lives? Could AI even accelerating the energy transition? To do that, we are discussing International Energy Agency's latest paper -  Energy and AI (https://www.iea.org/reports/energy-and-ai). A comprehensive review and deep dive in AI's impacts on our world energy map. Our guests are the lead authors, Siddharth Singh and Thomas Spencer. Both are also part of the team that produce the World Energy Outlook annually.For more on our senior advisory network, Enco Insights visit - www.encoinsights.com For more on www.Hyperionsearch.com - our clean energy search firmFor commodities search visit www.hcgroup.global    

The emergence of AI is generating an unprecedented hunger for electricity, fundamentally reshaping global energy consumption. The International Energy Agency projects that data center electricity consumption will double to 945 terawatt hours by 2030, growing at 15% annually, four times

The International Energy Agency projects the global market value of critical minerals could reach almost $800 billion by 2040. That's because we must have them for the electrified future. And right now, China is a dominant supplier.The Trump administration wants to find other sources, and it's looking to U.S. and international waters to mine minerals on the ocean floor. Marketplace contributor Daniel Ackerman has been reporting on the deep-sea mining companies that are working to figure out how to harvest in unforgiving terrain.

The International Energy Agency projects the global market value of critical minerals could reach almost $800 billion by 2040. That's because we must have them for the electrified future. And right now, China is a dominant supplier.The Trump administration wants to find other sources, and it's looking to U.S. and international waters to mine minerals on the ocean floor. Marketplace contributor Daniel Ackerman has been reporting on the deep-sea mining companies that are working to figure out how to harvest in unforgiving terrain.

In this episode of the All Things Sustainable podcast, we continue our deep dive into methane emissions. Today we're exploring the role that private equity can play in eliminating methane emissions, including at abandoned oil and gas wells.  Methane is the second largest contributor to global warming behind carbon dioxide. And the fossil fuel sector is responsible for nearly one-third of methane emissions from human activity today. Record production of oil, gas and coal, combined with limited mitigation efforts, has kept emissions above 120 million metric tons annually, according to the International Energy Agency's 2025 Global Methane Tracker published in May. The IEA calls methane abatement a “crucial opportunity” to reduce near-term global warming.  To understand how some companies are tackling methane emissions at abandoned facilities, in the episode we talk with Zefiro Methane Corp., an environmental services company that specializes in methane abatement at abandoned oil and gas wells in the US. Zefiro is a portfolio company of private equity firm X Machina Capital Strategies, or XMC, which works to transform oil and gas assets into long-term, sustainable solutions.  We speak with Catherine Flax, Founding Member and President of Private Markets at XMC. On June 5, Catherine was appointed interim CEO of Zefiro Methane Corp., where she also serves on the board.  We also talk with Talal Debs, Founder and Managing Partner of XMC. Talal was CEO of Zefiro Methane Corp. from November 2023 until June 2025.  In the episode, Talal outlines how XMC takes a "full-spectrum energy investment" approach.   "Let's take all the energy that we can get economically, but make it as clean as possible with a mind towards: what are we going to do with the mess afterwards?" he says. "If we can do that ... we're capturing the full spectrum of opportunity without ignoring the full spectrum of risks."  Listen to our previous episode on methane emissions here.  Learn about energy transition data and services from S&P Global Commodity Insights.   This piece was published by S&P Global Sustainable1, a part of S&P Global.           Copyright ©2025 by S&P Global           DISCLAIMER   By accessing this Podcast, I acknowledge that S&P GLOBAL makes no warranty, guarantee, or representation as to the accuracy or sufficiency of the information featured in this Podcast. The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice. Unless specifically stated otherwise, S&P GLOBAL does not endorse, approve, recommend, or certify any information, product, process, service, or organization presented or mentioned in this Podcast, and information from this Podcast should not be referenced in any way to imply such approval or endorsement. The third party materials or content of any third party site referenced in this Podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions, standards or policies of S&P GLOBAL. S&P GLOBAL assumes no responsibility or liability for the accuracy or completeness of the content contained in third party materials or on third party sites referenced in this Podcast or the compliance with applicable laws of such materials and/or links referenced herein. Moreover, S&P GLOBAL makes no warranty that this Podcast, or the server that makes it available, is free of viruses, worms, or other elements or codes that manifest contaminating or destructive properties.     S&P GLOBAL EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ANY AND ALL LIABILITY OR RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR OTHER DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF ANY INDIVIDUAL'S USE OF, REFERENCE TO, RELIANCE ON, OR INABILITY TO USE, THIS PODCAST OR THE INFORMATION PRESENTED IN THIS PODCAST.   

What happens when a company we trust with our most personal data gets into financial trouble ? We hear from a woman who trusted a US company with her genetic information.Also on Tech Life this week, will there be enough electricity for the demands of artificial intelligence ? The International Energy Agency tells us about the challenges of powering the AI boom. And we find out how to grow an island in The Maldives. The tech involved could protect low-lying territories from erosion and rising sea levels.We enjoy reading your messages about the one item of tech you simply can't do without. If you want to tell us about your must-have piece of tech, please get in touch by emailing techlife@bbc.co.uk or send us a Whatsapp message or voice memo on +44 330 1230 320.Presenter: Chris Vallance Producer: Tom Quinn Editor: Monica SorianoImage: A scientist holds a DNA sample with the results on a computer screen in a laboratory. Credit: Westend61/Getty Images

In this episode of the All Things Sustainable podcast, we take a deep dive into methane. After carbon dioxide, methane is the greenhouse gas that contributes most to global warming. It is also far more potent than carbon dioxide. The fossil fuel sector is responsible for nearly one-third of global methane emissions from human activity, according to the International Energy Agency.  In the episode, we explore how recent advancements in monitoring and measuring have unlocked energy companies' ability to understand and address methane emissions. We look at why these emissions matter, and how curbing methane leaks in oil and gas operations is both economically and technically feasible, providing an opportunity for companies to make progress on climate goals in the near term.  We talk with Steven Hamburg, Senior Vice President and Chief Scientist at the Environmental Defense Fund (EDF), a global nonprofit tackling climate change. Steven is also the project lead of MethaneSAT, a satellite that finds and measures global methane emissions. He says he wants to create "radical transparency" by making this data widely available. He points to a "sea change" in the way the energy industry thinks about methane emissions.   "There's a realization in the industry that good practice shouldn't include these emissions," Steven says.  We also sit down with Dominic Watson, Senior Manager on the Energy Transition team at EDF+Business, a division of EDF that works with a variety of stakeholders on methane management and disclosures, including oil and gas companies.  Dominic says that cutting methane emissions from oil and gas operations is largely cost effective and can be achieved over the next few years. He notes that companies are under pressure to curb emissions and have started to view addressing methane as "core to their long-term competitiveness in the energy transition."   And we speak to Georges Tijbosch, CEO of MiQ, an independent nonprofit that aims to facilitate a rapid reduction in methane emissions from the oil and gas sector.  Georges says many of the technologies needed to address methane emissions already exist. "Yes, they need to grow. Yes, they need to scale. Yes, they need to get better — but it's all there," he tells us. "That's why I found methane so exciting. This is a problem ... we can solve this decade."  Listen to our podcast interview with oil major ExxonMobil about its approach to methane emissions and the energy transition here.  Listen to our podcast interview with natural gas company EQT about how it is tackling methane emissions here.  Learn about the S&P Global Sustianable1's Energy Transition data.  This piece was published by S&P Global Sustainable1 and not by S&P Global Ratings, which is a separately managed division of S&P Global.     Copyright ©2025 by S&P Global            DISCLAIMER      By accessing this Podcast, I acknowledge that S&P GLOBAL makes no warranty, guarantee, or representation as to the accuracy or sufficiency of the information featured in this Podcast. The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice. Unless specifically stated otherwise, S&P GLOBAL does not endorse, approve, recommend, or certify any information, product, process, service, or organization presented or mentioned in this Podcast, and information from this Podcast should not be referenced in any way to imply such approval or endorsement. The third party materials or content of any third party site referenced in this Podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions, standards or policies of S&P GLOBAL. S&P GLOBAL assumes no responsibility or liability for the accuracy or completeness of the content contained in third party materials or on third party sites referenced in this Podcast or the compliance with applicable laws of such materials and/or links referenced herein. Moreover, S&P GLOBAL makes no warranty that this Podcast, or the server that makes it available, is free of viruses, worms, or other elements or codes that manifest contaminating or destructive properties.       S&P GLOBAL EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ANY AND ALL LIABILITY OR RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR OTHER DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF ANY INDIVIDUAL'S USE OF, REFERENCE TO, RELIANCE ON, OR INABILITY TO USE, THIS PODCAST OR THE INFORMATION PRESENTED IN THIS PODCAST.

Two of the world's biggest energy firms are in court fighting over a new oil project that could be worth a trillion dollars.We hear why the International Energy Agency says the worlds is becoming too dependent on just a few countries for critical minerals that power clean energy technologies.Plus, Will Bain finds out why there's been a five-fold increase in streaming subscriptions in India.

Plus: Ford is to let rival Nissan use part of its flagship U.S. battery plant, as electric vehicle demand slows. And a new report by the International Energy Agency finds China continues to dominate the global supply of critical minerals. Kate Bullivant hosts. Sign up for WSJ's free What's News newsletter.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Labor Department reported U. S. weekly Jobless Claims; Kevin has the details and offers his insights. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported the U.S. Producer Price Index (PPI) for April; Kevin discusses the data and the. implications going forward on Interest rates. The U.S. Retail Sales report was released; Kevin has the details. JPMorgan offers their latest predictions as to the possibility a recession this year; Kevin digs in to the report and offers his insights. US House Energy and Commerce Committee proposed replenishing the Strategic Petroleum Reserves. Oil reacts to a possible Iran nuclear deal, Russian President Putin's refusal to meet with Ukraine's Zelinsky, U.S. Crude inventory increases and the International Energy Agency upgrade of 2025 oil demand growth forecast.

Prime Minister Mark Carney holds his first cabinet meeting since the federal election.  Industry Minister Melanie Joly says she plans to speak of the head of Honda by the end of day.  US President Donald Trump meets Syria's transformational president Ahmed al-Sharaa in Saudi Arabia.  Wisconsin judge Hannah Dugan indicted in federal court for allegedly helping an undocumented person evade immigration officials.  Vancouver-based immigration consulting company investigated by Canada Border Services Agency for duping Filipinos out of tens of thousands of dollars.  The International Energy Agency says electric vehicles are becoming cheaper and easier to charge, despite threats of tariffs.  French study finds men produce more climate-changing emissions than women.

On April 10, the International Energy Agency released a major report on energy and AI. The report explores topics including electricity demand for AI, how AI is being used in the energy sector, AI's role in accelerating energy innovation, the security implications of AI and greenhouse gas emissions from AI. Join host David Sandalow in conversation with Laura Cozzi, IEA's Director for Sustainability, Technology and Outlooks, who designed and directed this landmark report.   The AI, Energy and Climate Podcast is a special series from the DSR Network sponsored by NEDO and hosted by David Sandalow, Inaugural Fellow at Columbia University's Center on Global Energy Policy. AI for Climate Change Mitigation Roadmap -- https://www.icef.go.jp/roadmap and transitiondigital.org/ai-climate-roadmap.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices