Uncommons with Nate Erskine-Smith

Nate and Carolyn Whitzman talk about her recent book Home Truths, Canada's housing needs, and different historical and international approaches that should inform how we build market, non-market, and supportive housing. Carolyn is a housing and social policy researcher, an expert advisor to UBC's Housing Assessment Resource Tools, and a senior housing researcher at U of T's School of Cities. She is also the author of Home Truths, Fixing Canada's Housing Crisis.How many homes do we need to build? How should we go about building them? And who should we be serving?Chapters:00:00 Introduction to Housing Crisis in Canada01:52 Understanding Housing Needs Assessments05:14 Historical Context of Housing in Canada09:09 Long-Term Solutions for Housing16:10 Market vs. Non-Market Housing22:24 Addressing NIMBYism and Zoning Reform27:39 International Examples of Non-Market Housing34:53 Financing Non-Market Housing39:56 Protecting Renters and Tenant Rights41:21 Addressing Homelessness with Compassion46:39 Conclusion and Future DirectionsTranscript:Nate:Welcome to Uncommons. I'm Nate Erskine-Smith. For those of you who are tuning in more recently, I'm the Member of Parliament for Beaches-East York. And this Uncommons podcast is a series of interviews with experts in their respective fields with colleagues of mine in parliament really focused on Canadian politics and policy in relation to that politics.And today I'm joined by Carolyn Whitzman. She is an expert in housing policy, one of the most important issues at all levels of government that need to be addressed in a comprehensive, serious way. You'll hear all politicians sort of trip over themselves with different housing plans.And the question for Carolyn is, how many homes do we need to build? How should we go about building them? And who should we be serving? And how are we going to get out of this housing crisis that this country faces and that all regions face in their own respective ways?Now, Carolyn is a housing and social policy researcher. She's an expert advisor to UBC's housing assessment resource tools. She's a senior housing researcher at U of T's School of Cities. And most importantly, having just read her book, she is the author of Home Truths, Fixing Canada's Housing Crisis.Nate:Carolyn, thanks for joining me.Caroyln:Great to join you, Nate.Nate:So you came highly recommended to me by virtue of Mark Richardson, who's a constituent and an advocate on housing and someone I, you know, anything he says on housing is to be believed.And he's, you know, he highly recommended your book, Home Truths, but he also suggested you as a podcast guest. So I really, really appreciate the time. And much of your work, you know, your main work, other than being an expert in all things housing, but a core expertise that you have is really on the needs assessment in terms of what the housing market in Canada needs in particular in different regions. And there are different needs.There are market needs, there are non-market needs, there's deeply affordable needs for people who are experiencing homelessness.And so how would you break down, you know, if you've got Sean Fraser coming to you and saying, what are the needs assessments? How would you break down the needs assessments on housing in this country?Caroyln:Well, funny you should say that because Sean's office and housing and infrastructure has come to me. So I did some work with a project called the Housing Assessment Resource Tools Project based at UBC that was funded by the CMHC that did what the CMHC used to do and unfortunately no longer does, which is look at housing need by income categories.Canada has been doing that since 1944 during World War II when a report by a relatively conservative economist named Curtis said that for low-income people, probably some form of public housing was going to be necessary to meet their needs.For middle-income people, there needed to be a lot more purpose-built rental housing, he said that in 1944. And he also said in 1944 that there needed to be some way to control rent increases and he suggested cooperative housing. And then for higher-income people, definitely scale up while located home ownership.To some extent the Canadian government listened. Between 1944 and 1960, there were about a million homes enabled through government land financing design replication that were for moderate-income starter households.In those days it was mostly one-earner households, like a man at home and a woman, sorry, a woman at home and a man at work. And the homes were two to three bedrooms between $7,000 and $8,000. So pretty remarkably that's like $80,000 to $90,000 in today's terms.Nate:That would be nice.Carolyn:Yeah, wouldn't it be nice? Once they were sold, they lost our affordability.So since then, and certainly in the 1970s and 1980s when the federal government was building, well again enabling, about one in five homes to be built by public housing, cooperative housing, other non-profit housing, that housing was affordable to what they called low- and moderate-income households, so the lowest two quintiles of household income. Home ownership was easily affordable to moderate in most places and middle-income households.So there's always been some housing needs, but there wasn't widespread homelessness. There wasn't the kinds of craziness that you see today where new rental housing isn't affordable to middle-income earners, where new homeowners are limited to the highest quintile, like the highest 20% of population.So we simply use the same kinds of categories, also the kinds of categories that are used in the U.S. and other countries. Low income, moderate income, median income, and then higher income.Unfortunately with provincial social assistance rates being what they are, we have to add a very low income, which is like 20% of median income, and really isn't enough to afford a room let alone an apartment. But yeah, that's the way we look at housing need.Nate:But then, so let's be maybe, that's at a high level for how we look, how we analyze it,and then when we look at the Canadian context today, so you talk about the Curtis Reportpost-war and on my reading of, I found your historical examples very interesting, internationalexamples interesting too, which we'll get to, but this was one of the most interestingones because here you have the Curtis Report proposing annual targets that you say is effectively the equivalent of 4 million homes over 10 years. But then they break this down into a particular categories.Then you've got, you know, two years ago, two and a bit of years ago, you had CMHC issued a report to say we effectively need 5.8 million homes by 2030. So 2.3 million in business as usual. And then you've got this 3.5 million additional homes required. And that's impossible for us to achieve based upon the current trajectory at all levels of government, frankly, but especially at the provincial level.And so when you look at the needs assessment today, so Curtis Report has 4 million over10 years, what do we need today? Is CMHC right?It's 5.8 million, although they don't break it down into these different categories, or should we be more specific to say, as you do, it's 200,000 new or renovated deeply affordable supportive homes over 10 years, and then you've got different categories for market and non-market.Carolyn:Well, I think it's important to prioritize people whose lives are literally being shortened because of lack of housing. So I think that ending homelessness should be a priority. And there's no doubt that we can't end homelessness without a new generation of low-cost housing.So I wouldn't disagree that we need 6,000 new homes. I did a report last year for the Office of the Federal Housing Advocate that argued that we need 3 million new and acquired homes for low-income people alone at rents of about $1,000 a month or less, certainly less if you're on social assistance.So the deed is pretty large. We have to recognize the fact that it's taken 30 to 50 years of inaction, particularly federal inaction, but also the Fed's downloaded to provinces, and as you say, provinces have done an extremely poor job to get there.And I think that what we see from countries that work, like France and Finland, Austria, is that they think in terms of like 30-year infrastructure categories, just like any other infrastructure. If we were to have a really viable public transit system, we'd need to start thinking in terms of what are we going to do over the next 30 years.Similarly, I think we need to look at a kind of 30-year time span when it comes to housing, and I think we need to look once again at that rule of thirds, which is a rule that's used in a lot of, in Germany and again in France and Finland, Denmark, about a third of it needs to be pretty deeply affordable low-income housing, about a third of it needs to be moderate-income rental, but with renter rights to ensure that the rents don't go up precipitously, and about a third of it needs to be for home ownership.Nate:You mentioned a 30-year window a few times there, and it strikes me that we need more honesty in our politics in that there's no quick solution to most of these challenges. That it's, you know, in your telling of the story, which I think is exactly right, this is decades in the making, and it will be decades in undoing this challenge and in addressing this as fulsome as we should.Now, that's not to say, you're right, we should prioritize people whose lives are being shortened by a lack of housing. There's some things we can do immediately to get more rapid housing built and really drive at that in a shorter window of time.But when you look at non-market housing, when you look at the market housing we need to build, no politician should stand at the microphone and say, we're going to build the homes we need without really overhauling how we do things and understanding that these homes are not going to get built tomorrow, that this is putting down track, policy track, to make sure homes get built in the next five years, in the next 10 years and beyond.Carolyn:Absolutely. And I think it's really important to start off with some aspirational goals. Like, forinstance, it was 1987 when Finland said, we're going to end homelessness, and this is how we're going to do it. France in 2000 said 20% of all housing should be non-market, in other words, public cooperative, non-profit.And in both Finland and France, there's been federal government changes as well as changes at the municipal level, etc. And those goals have remained the same through right wing and left wing governments.It does worry me, Nate, when politicians, I won't name any names, use sort of three word slogans, and that's going to somehow change things in the term of the government.Nate:I will will homes into existence by rhyming.Carolyn:So, you know, it takes building up systems, including good information systems to monitor and track how well we're doing and course correct. And that's something kind of basic that's been missing from federal policy as well.There's one report that says there's 655,000 non-market homes. Another report two years later says that there's 980,000 non-market homes and those weren't built in two years. So, you know, what is our current housing stock? How are our policies working to create certain kinds of housing, housing for people with disabilities or housing for seniors?Student housing need wasn't even included in the last few censuses. So, we don't really know how many students need housing at what cost and where. These are all examples of things that would be in a real national housing strategy.Nate:That seems to me like the basics, right? Like you measure why I want to start theconversation with a needs assessment, because if you don't start with that, then you're not working in a serious direction to any end goal.But I was also struck by your book just and you mentioned a couple of international examples and I'll say again, I want to get there, but I want to start the historical examples because part of us we live in this Overton window and we've had the federal government, not this federal government, but previous federal governments walk away from their responsibilities on housing.As you say, the story is a story of downloading responsibilities. There's been some uploading of responsibilities back through the last two national housing strategies as far as it goes, but we could talk about whether there ought to be more of that even and I think there probably should be more fiscal firepower when I look at the international examples and what's spent in France and Germany and other countries.But I was also struck by the historical ability to build in this country. And this is one thing that jumped out, but I'd also be curious what when you were writing this book, like what really jumped out is you as, so we're building fewer homes now than we were in the mid 1970s when the population was half what it is now. I found that absolutely shocking.I also found it shocking if new home construction had stayed at 1970s levels, we'd have an additional 6 to 7 million homes, meaning we'd be where we should be.Carolyn:Yeah, yeah. So what happened? And I think a couple of things happened. One is, and this happened in a couple of countries. It happened in Sweden too.Sweden said, we'll build a million homes in a country of 8 million, which is pretty impressive. And they did. And then they had a slight surplus of homes. They had some vacancies.And instead of going, yay, vacancies, tenants have a choice. They went, oh my God, vacancies,what are we doing? There was also a change of government, of course. So they course corrected.Part of it is that a good housing system includes about 4 to 8% vacancies, just because people move,there's vacancies in between people moving. You want people to have a choice. We know that vacancies help bring rents down in sort of...Nate:And standards up, right?Carolyn:And standards up using classic supply and demand. So we want to see some vacancies. We don't want to have a zero vacancy system. That's number one.Number two is just this increasing belief in the late 1970s and early 1980s. And it came from both the right and the left to distrust government.I think Robert Moses, the chief planner of New York City for decades has a lot to answer for because people started looking at this big, heavy-handed planning and said, we don't want anything of it.And so activists in central cities said, we don't want our heritage knocked down, which I completely understand, but then created such restrictive zoning that only very rich households can live in the majority of well-located neighborhoods in Toronto, for instance.But from the right as well, there was this belief that the market can solve all problems, including the problem of housing for low-income people. And there's never been any proof that that particular contention is true. Whereas there's plenty of evidence that the needs of low-cost, low-income people can only be met through a kind of social perspective.Just like if you said, hey, you have to pay the real costs of healthcare. Well, 20% of you won't be able to, and that's too bad for you. Or everyone needs to pay the real cost of primary education. Well, sorry, many of you will have to remain illiterate.So housing is a basic need, a basic social determinant of health, just as education and healthcare is. And although housing is unlike healthcare and education in that the majority of it is provided by the private sector, just like food, there does need to be some consideration for the fact that everybody needs housing, just like they need healthcare and education and food.Nate:There's a lot there. And really, I think I was on the road a lot last year for an ultimately unsuccessful bid on the provincial leadership side. But I talked about housing a lot because it was, I think it's got to be the overriding focus for all levels of government, but especially provincial governments as it relates to zoning reform.And the line I would use, and I believe in this, I think this is how to articulate it at a high level that governments need to get out of the way on the market side so homes can be built and governments have to get back in the game in a serious way on getting social housing built and public housing built. And at a high level, those are the two objectives.Now, let's start with, there's a lot in what you said on both fronts, but let's start with market housing.You've got a tragic situation where you've got a doubling of home prices, but wages have only increased by 7% over the last five, six years. You've set out a target on this front in your own analysis to say we need 2 million homes with affordable monthly rents.So that's our goal. And to get there, part of this is ending exclusionary zoning. And then every level of government has role to play.The federal government has the Housing Accelerator Fund, which is one of the programs I quite like, although I know it's subject to maybe getting cut under the next government.Carolyn:I do too. I just wish that there was the same kind of conditional funding with provinces. I mean, it seems like the federal government has gone, yeah, let's bully some municipalities and I have no problem with that, or let's provide targets to municipalities.Nate:I'm okay with the firm sort of like carrots and sticks. And in this case, yeah, it's a combination of the two.Carolyn:It is.Nate:And we should be firm with municipalities that don't do their jobs on any restrictive zoning. But when a province can end it with the stroke of a pen across the board, surely we should be even more forceful with provincial governments.Carolyn:Well, let me give the example of supportive housing. So the federal government announcedthe Rapid Housing Initiative, which in many ways has been the most successful national housing strategy program, although it came along as a COVID era additional.Nate:It's the only program I really like talking about, other than the half, the Housing Accelerator Fund, because I can see real results. I can see Toronto, for example, working to change their zoning rules and other municipalities across the province and country, frankly.The Rapid Housing is the only other piece. And there was a housing accelerator or a housing innovation fund, affordable housing innovation fund that was sort of a precursor to it. That's the only program I really point to to show like that's results oriented. There are real outcomes I can point to of homes that have been built where there are people that have moved out of the shelter system that are living in these homes. And, you know, people can debate it, but I see it as a broad success.Carolyn:I'm in furious agreement. It met and exceeded targets. The only problem was that in many cases it was supportive housing or housing with supports. And those supports can't be provided by the federal government.Nate:I know.Carolyn:It's worth of the provincial responsibility. And I think there was a little bit of wishful thinking that the provinces would come along, but in many cases, and Ontario is one of them, they just didn't come along.So what would it be like if the federal government said, okay, as part of our health transfer dollars, we're going to transfer money directly into the health and social support services that we know are necessary in order to keep people with mental and physical health needs housed and we'll just claw it out of the health transfer payment.I think that would be fair. It's still going to the people who need it the most through municipalities, but it would have the impact of showing that these targets are serious and also hopefully pointing provinces towards genuine plans to end homelessness. And the province has so many levers that could help prevent and end homelessness.It has landlord-tenant relations and eviction protection. It has health and social services, which are an essential part of housing for people with disabilities, older people, et cetera. So the province can't wash its hands of the kind of housing policy that the federal government and municipalities are talking about.They are the laggard in terms of the three levels of government, as far as I'm concerned.Nate:Do you think, so I have an example locally of 60 units built modular housing. It was through the Affordable Housing Innovation Fund, that's how I even know it exists, but the precursor to sort of rapid housing.And I think of it as a success. It was some local opposition. It was challenging to get through some of those conversations. There's probably a bit more legwork that could have been done to make sure that it's all single units and it could have been probably, there are demographics to serve that drive this and I do understand that, but I do think in some of these cases, some of the literature I've read suggests that having some mix of single and family units can be helpful in the longer term.I've read some stuff from John Sewell and others. So I don't know, maybe some of that could have been part of the mix in a way to respond to local concerns, but overall it's been a success.And yet the city puts up the parking lot, the feds bring in the capital dollars, it gets built and the missing partner of the table on the wraparound ongoing supports is the province of Ontario.So we fill this locally with a particular project, but it happens everywhere. And you're right. I do think we need to be more forceful on the provincial side. So then what does that look to you?You did in your book suggest a couple of different things. You have a different idea that you propose there, but one piece is around requiring infrastructure dollars. So you have more, you're pushing provinces to add more density in transit oriented areas and you tie federal infrastructure dollars.The half is obviously an example of using some federal dollars to try and change dynamics. We've got now a version of this where there's billions of dollars in loans available to provinces that opt into sort of the BC model, BC bills and doing things in a better way.If you're advising the housing minister on this front, how much more forceful can we be at the federal level around addressing NIMBYism, do you think?Caroyln:Well, I think the big cure to NIMBYism is a lot more front-end work when it comes to community planning.There's some really good work that's been done by a group called Renovate the Public Hearing, NBC. It's a black-clad group out of Simon Fraser and they use citizen juries, for instance, which are randomly chosen individuals in a community. Actually, Mark was part of one many years ago in Toronto out by Jennifer Keesmaat and they make kind of high-level decisions around planning.Usually people, just everyday people off the street, given all the facts and all the evidence, will make pretty good decisions. But I don't think that residents should be asked to make decisions about every single development. I think there needs to be a lot more enabling environment quite radically, I suppose.I think that four stories as of right with unlimited units would allow a whole new generation of small apartment buildings.Nate:That seems the minimum, by the way, so this is something that, you know, the half pushes and other changes have been proposed by other municipal leaders are on four stories as of right. Sorry, four units.Carolyn:It's not four units, it's four stories.Nate:Okay, so four stories would be more radical, but it's certainly less radical though than, the example I love from your book was Japan, which has incredibly permissive zoning rules that is rightly focused their zoning permissions on nuisances and real nuisances that affect quality of life, and not just they keep certain people out of this community and keep my property values up.Carolyn:And that's about mix as well. That's about having small grocery stores next to homes, next to trial care centers, next to high schools or whatever.So I think a lot of the land use zoning is infamously two-dimensional. Like it says, this is what the land use will bein this particular area. And that's really problematic in terms of the kind of walkable communities that many of us are talking about as well as transit-oriented communities.Of course,the minimum heights would need to be greater near transit stations and even bus stops, I'd argue, but certainly that sort of baseline that would allow, they'd allow multiplexes, they'd allow people to build granny flats and give the main house to one of their kids or two of their kids if the kids subdivided or whatever.I think that that's sort of the retail change that needs to happen. There's sort of the wholesale change, which are big new developments on government land or near transit stations, et cetera.But the sort of retail change is really important. A lot of neighborhoods in Toronto, and I know you live in Toronto, have lower densities than they did 30 years ago. They have smaller households, more single-person households, et cetera. So the built form needs to, you know, we need to have a lot more flexible housing to make a long story short.And even if in the best case scenario, non-market housing was 20% of all housing, 80% would still be provided by the private sector. It's really hard for homeowners to say, hey, I'm going to subdivide into three units.The municipal government makes it difficult through approvals and development taxes. Finance providers say, what's your experience as a developer? You know, so I think we need a far more enabling environment to make the kind of changes we need.Nate:Well, my last comment I would say on the market side is, and density, and in general, and encouraging density. It does strike me, one other tool that the feds could potentially use is when we, one thing is, you know, okay, tying infrastructure dollars to density around transit. That seems like no brainer stuff.But there's also when the mayor of Norfolk County comes to me and says, we need real investments in wastewater. Well, great. Federal investments on the infrastructure side tied to some action on density. And I think different municipalities will have different needs.And similarly, some municipalities may balk to go, well, if we add so much density, well, how do we manage the healthcare capacity in these areas, the school capacity in these areas, the childcare capacity in these areas.And so there are infrastructure related needs to adding density and the feds and the province are in a much better position to write those large checks to make that happen.Anyway, so I think there's, you know, maybe housing accelerator fund, but just pushed to, you know, the next level even. So it's not just dollars related housing, but it's dollars related infrastructure more broadly.Okay, but on the, you mentioned non-market and I do want to spend a good amount of time on that, because I actually think that is the missing piece. We can talk about market housing forever, but you rightly know in your book that, you know, market housing is not going to get us out of the crisis that we're in, especially for so many people who can never imagine owning a home right now, given where home prices are at and how much they've run away from wages.And I want you to talk a little bit about, for those who maybe don't get through, who don't get to your book, the examples, you mentioned France, you mentioned, there's a range of different examples in your book though, focus on non-market housing. We used to do this in Canada in a more serious way.What are some of the things we should be doing that other countries do in this space? What would be your top three, four or five hit lists of, you know, France does this and Denmark does this, and if Canada really wanted to re-energize, writing big checks is one of it, but if Canada really wanted to re-energize the space, what's your hit list?Carolyn:Well, one of them is something I'm working on today, actually, in response to a request from the federal government, which is, what's the capacity of developers across Canada to create large-scale developments on government land? So, there are some really exciting large-scale developments.In Vancouver alone, there's SINOC, which is a Squamish-led development that's going to produce 6,000 apartments, very well located next to Burrard Bridge, as well as Jericho Lands, which again is Canada Lands Company plus three First Nations. Those are the kinds of large-scale development that can really show a way forward.And if you look at St. Lawrence neighborhood, people used to come from all over the world to look at St. Lawrence neighborhood. What an amazing development that was, 50 years old now, and 4,000 homes, a third each, public housing, cooperative housing, condos, again the rule of thirds.It was considered such a radical idea to have schools at the bottom and grocery stores at the bottom and a church and a pub and a restaurant and everything at the bottom, but it really works knit along that linear park. It's still a really lovely neighborhood, and it was a game-changer.At that time, talking about families living in eight-story buildings was considered, you know, crazy radical stuff, but it worked. So, we need about 100 more St. Lawrence neighborhoods, and then we need a lot of small-scale enablers such as, as I say, four-story buildings that I was recently on the housing industry task force, and there's so many innovative prefabricated housing producers, and they said all we need is a certain level of guaranteed demand.We'll build the factories, we'll hire the people, and of course you get a much more diverse labor force working for factories than you might in construction industries.The construction industry right now is an aging population with a high level of retirements expected, so we need prefab housing.Prefab housing can be awesome. What would it be like if the federal government did a guaranteed order of, I don't know, 200,000 homes a year, most ambitiously. Okay, let's call it 50,000, be a little bit less ambitious.We know already that modular student housing works in Quebec. UTILE builds affordable student homes really cheaply using modular. We know that the Rapid Housing Initiative was on the back of a kind of four-story special with the ground floor being community services and the social workers, and three stories of housing above it.So, we have those kinds of models that will work nationally, and if you did that sort of a pre-order, you could really build up Canada's prefab industry in a really exciting way. It's really important for the north where construction seasons are slow.You know, it ticks so many boxes.Nate:Yeah, it really does. I like that idea a lot.Well, and one thing that struck me, I mentioned Denmark. One thing that struck me was, but before we get to Denmark, actually the stat from France struck me, and people should know, so France produces 110,000 non-market homes a year, more in one year than the total number of non-market homes created in Canada over the last 24 years.Like, that blew my brain. Like, I just like, what are we even doing here? If France is doing that and we're doing this, like, whoa, what are we even doing here?Carolyn:It's really important to emphasize how beautiful many of those homes are. I mean, I don't know whether you've been to Paris recently, but I was in Paris.Nate:Not recently, no. Paris. I got kids. It's hard to travel these days.Carolyn:Oh, but you know, you can just offer them a chocolate croissant.Anyhow, so Cazane de Relay, which is on a former military barracks, and it is, it's got student housing, it's got family housing, but it's knitted around in the former, like, Chondemar, the former military parade ground, this beautiful park that has cafes in it.And it's in a very ritzy part of Paris near a subway line, and people love it, because it's an adaptive reuse of space with a beautiful park in the middle of it. Again, you can make beautiful, socially inclined, environmentally sound architecture, and it's nothing to be ashamed of.Nate:Yeah, of course, yeah.Carolyn:For a long time, I mean, people think of the original version of Regent Park, and they think about these very dire projects.But, you know, think about St. Lawrence neighborhood. Think about in Ottawa, Beaver Barracks, which again, has this beautiful set of community gardens in the middle of it, and district heating, and all kinds of cool stuff. We can make beautiful things.Nate:I mentioned France just because it's such a frustrating comparison that they are building so much more. But Denmark, I found an interesting example because it's a practical sort of solution-oriented example.It's not just, this, France is doing way more than Canada, sorry, Canada. But Denmark's National Building Fund provides 45-year mortgages, 30 years to pay off the building costs, and then 15 years to fund the next new project.Other countries have just, if you compare CMHC financing for non-market versus what these other countries are doing, I mean, other countries are just way lower cost and longer-term financing. And that seems like, I don't know, it seems like low-hanging fruit to me. I don't know how much pushback there is from CMHC, but if we can't do that, then we're not going to solve this problem at all.Carolyn:Well, that's the secret sauce. That was the secret sauce in the 1970s and 1980s when up to 20% of new homes were non-market. It was 40-year mortgages at 2% at the time, when crime was 6%.So it is a challenge, or let's put it this way, it's not CMHC as much as it is the finance ministers who tend not to love that.But you can get to the point, it's not just Denmark, it's Austria and France as well, where you have a revolving loan fund and it refreshes itself.And that goes back to our earlier conversation of the need for thinking long-term. Infrastructure financing is always long-term and the payback from infrastructure financing is always long-term.Nate:I want to get to a conversation, sort of conclude with addressing homelessness, but before we get there, just on the protecting renters. We've promised a bill of rights for tenants and that's obviously in some ways tough because the federal jurisdiction is going to require, again, sort of a carrot-stick approach, although interesting again to note the historical example of national rent control, I think it was in the 1940s, but regardless.Carolyn:1940s and 1941 and 1975.Okay, so even more recent than that. You know Pierre, said in 1975, thou shalt have rent control and all the provinces said, okay.Nate:Interesting. And even where we have some rent control, obviously Ontario is a classic example where you've got rent control while the unit is lived in and then there's such a massive disincentive to keep the unit up or to respond to tenant concerns because, oh, if the tenant leaves, shrug my shoulders, I actually make more money because I can now, the rent control disappears.Carolyn:It's a huge incentive for evictions and it was brought in, that exemption vacancy control was brought in by conservative government.Nate:Does not surprise me on that front. So on the protecting renters front, there's a window here at least with the tenants bill of rights, although maybe a short life left in this parliament, but there is a window there.I think there's probably a window to collaborate with the NDP on something like that or the Bloc on something like that to really get something done. So there's at least some space to maybe fulfill on the implementation side.Beyond that space or maybe even in that space, what would you want to see in Canada on renter protections?Carolyn:I'm doing some work right now with an investor group called SHARE, S-H-A-R-E, that is on ESG guidelines for investors in housing. And I think it's really important, we now have environmental guidelines for investment in housing, but we don't yet have social guidelines on investment.And I sometimes think that soft-suasion is as important as we've been talking about the bully function of federal government. I think it is really that I've seen ESG guidelines have a huge impact on investors.I think that unions, to give one specific example, are uncomfortable with the fact that several of their pension funds invest in and actually have entirely owned REITs who evict current and former union members. I think that's an uncomfortable place to be.So I think that investor guidelines are really important and they would be a world first if they were developed in Canada. So that's kind of exciting.What else is needed in terms of tenant rights? Look, countries in Europe, including countries that are majority renter and richer than Canada, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark, they tend to have longer leases and tend to have far harder roads towards eviction.So it's partly, absolutely rent, some level of rent negotiation. What Denmark does, one of the things I love about Denmark, is it has, it funds tenant unions and the tenant unions negotiate sort of the landlord.Nate:Better bargaining power.Carolyn:It's a bargaining situation and there is an emphasis on fair cost-based rent increases each year, which seems like a fair and transparent process, but also longer leases is part of the trick. I think that you want to create a situation where you can live for a long time as a renter, invest in other forms of requirement savings other than homes.But right now, definitely being a renter is a second class situation and that leads a lot of people to get into really, really scary debt in order to become homeowners. And that's not necessarily a good situation as well, or living very far away from your work or having to move away from where your family is.Nate:Well, it speaks to, and maybe we should have started here instead of finishing here, but it speaks to what are the twin goals in some ways, like what is a home and to deliver for someone that sense of home and shelter and safety.You have a rundown of different things that have to be considered here. But I think what I would want from a policy lens is at a minimum, you want sure there's some semblance of affordability, and you want to make sure that there's security of tenure, that you want to make sure that people, whether they're a tenant, tenants shouldn't be at such a disadvantage here that they don't have security of tenure, that there isn't that stability in their lives and they can't invest in their property in the same way. They can't know that they're going to be near this school and near this workplace, as you say. That is such an essential part of a home that goes, I think, under discussed in our politics in a really big way.I also, just to finish with on a rent supplement side, you don't have to comment on it because I don't want to get to homelessness in the sort of three minutes you got left, but this stuck out to me too.So France, Germany, and Denmark all spend 0.7% of their GDP on just rent supplements. Canada spends less on all housing related expenditures combined. Anyway, your book broke my brain in a number of different ways.Okay, so to finish with homelessness and addressing homelessness, because you've talked about rapid housing, you've talked about industrial, if the government of Canada committed to 50,000 modular units a year or something like that, we know where we could direct them at a minimum, which is to replace encampments with homes.And we now have Premier in Ontario, at least, who's talking about, he hasn't done it yet, but talking about, you know, send me a letter of mayors calling for the use of the notwithstanding clause as if you should replace encampments using the notwithstanding clause instead of just building homes.It's like in support of housing. And so on the homelessness front, this is a problem that needs to be resolved in a compassionate, evidence-based way. And that is the hope. And I hope it doesn't get, it's being weaponized in our politics in a big way. And I hope we can push back against that.And so to do that, but to do that successfully, are we looking at just a broad expansion of the rapid housing program, committing to that industrial building, the modular units, and then hopefully really aggressively pushing the provinces, as you say, on the supportive housing front, knowing that, you know, a housing first approach is the answer?Carolyn:That would help a lot. I mean, Canada, under the Harper government, funded the largest international experiment in housing first, which is simply providing homeless people with a permanent home with the supports that they need. And it worked.You know, it was 3000 people. The rates of people losing their homes was very low. The rates of people staying home and having better health and economic outcomes was huge.But you can't have housing first without having the housing comma first. That's what the films say. So that's what we need. We need a whole new generation of low-cost housing and many cases with supports that people need because such a high number of people who are homeless have various forms of disability.And if they don't have severe physical and mental health issues before they become homeless, they sure get them very quickly once they become homeless. So what we need to do, it's so self-evident when it comes to housing, when it comes to homelessness.And it doesn't just make moral sense. It makes economic sense.Nate:That's the part that bothers me, by the way. It's so frustrating in our politics.I speak to people like the, you know, small business owners who go, this is affecting my ability to earn an income. People are not coming to downtown London in Ontario as much as they were before because we have a homelessness challenge.You've got parks that parents go, that park is supposed to be so my kid can play in that green space, not for an encampment. And you kind of pull your hair out and go, why can't we just build supportive homes?Carolyn:Hospital emergency rooms aren't made to, you know, it's not of efficient use of hospital emergency rooms to get 200 visits a year.Nate:Exactly.Carolyn:You know, so it makes so much sense. I don't understand why at some basic level, why every province doesn't have a plan to end homelessness. It's a shame and it's also dumb.I mean, it's dumb on so many levels. So yeah, I mean, you know, I agree with you. I was reading Jane Philpott's book on Health For All, and I was going, yeah, the answers are pretty darn simple when it comes to health. Why don't we just do it?You know, and to me, the answers are pretty simple when it comes to housing. Why don't we just do it? You know, so I guess this book's Home Truths is intended to say to people, I know it looks really complex and it is, but the answers aren't that hard to figure out. It's not rocket science.Nate:Yeah. My takeaway was very much that, and this is the last data point that I throw at listeners from your book, but this one really stuck out. You talk about housing first approach in Finland and how the Finnish consider it.Over a period from 1985 to 2016, they went from over 2,100 shelter beds to 52. And then how do they do that?Well, they're cutting emergency shelter beds.How? Because they're increasing supportive housing from 127 to over 1,300. And they're replacing what is a reactive emergency response, which is a more expensive response, frankly.They're replacing that with a long-term housing first approach through supportive housing and non-market housing. And again, it seems obvious.The challenge, of course, is we should have started doing this a decade ago, two decades ago yesterday. And I'm not dismissive of the rapid housing program. I'm not dismissive of the housing accelerator fund. I'm not dismissive of the loans and the grants that are going towards and the new co-op fund. I don't want to be dismissive of all that. We're going in the right direction.It does seem, though, that the scale of the direction we're heading in the right direction, the scale is just not where it needs to be to get us to where we need to get in 30 years.Carolyn:Yep. We've done some really good pilot programs, and now it's time to scale it up and have some real targets. And it's been a pleasure talking policy wonk stuff with you, Nate.Nate:Well, that's what this is for. And I do appreciate the book. I'm glad Mark suggested that you'd be a guest because it prompted me to read your book. And I'm a much better advocate on housing for having done so.Carolyn:Well, thank you, Mark.Nate:I say that regularly on the housing file. Anyway, thanks, Carolyn, for your time.Carolyn:Thank you, Nate. Take care. Bye-bye.Nate:Thanks for joining me on this episode of Uncommons. I hope you found, yes, it was adeeper dive in policy, but I hope you found some of those stats interesting. They were eye-popping to me, frankly.I do think we have a certain Overton window in our politics sometimes, including on housing, and understanding historical examples, understanding what happens in other countries can be incredibly informative in helping to shift that window and delivering greater ambition, especially on such an important file.With that, if you have suggestions for guests or future topics, you can reach me at info at beynate.ca. You can reach me online, of course, on an increasingly variety of platforms. I'm on Bluesky now, but you can reach me at beynate on all those channels. And otherwise, otherwise, until next time. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

Nate is joined by Erin O'Toole, the former leader of the Conservative Party of Canada. Together in front of a live audience in Beaches-East York, they tackle Trump's tariffs, foreign interference, and the impacts of polarization. They also chat about collaboration across party lines, their experiences running for leader of their party, and they evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of Prime Minister Trudeau and Pierre Poilievre. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

On these two episodes of Uncommons, Nate does a deeper dive on the economics of Canadian immigration policies, including a look at the unsustainable rise in temporary immigration levels, recent government action to correct those levels, and what is almost certainly an over correction to the permanent resident levels. In part one, Nate's joined by University of Waterloo labour economics professor Mikal Skuterud.Professor Skuterud has written extensively on the economics of Canadian immigration, he's been consulted by different Ministers, and he's been a vocal critic of the government's management of the immigration file, especially with respect to temporary foreign workers. In part two, Nate is joined by Lisa Lalande, the CEO of Century Initiative, a group that advocates for policies to strengthen Canada's long-term economic prospects, including by growing our overall population to 100 million people by 2100. Ms. Lalande argues for strong but smartly managed immigration to ensure Canada's economy remains competitive and resilient in the long-term, and she makes the case that Canada must build housing and improve healthcare to accommodate smart growth as well as our non-economic goals. In some ways, the guests are sharply at odds with one another. But in others, there is alignment: that Canada needed to tackle temporary immigration levels, but has caused further unnecessary challenges by reducing permanent immigration levels. Youtube: This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

On these two episodes of Uncommons, Nate does a deeper dive on the economics of Canadian immigration policies, including a look at the unsustainable rise in temporary immigration levels, recent government action to correct those levels, and what is almost certainly an over correction to the permanent resident levels. In part one, Nate's joined by University of Waterloo labour economics professor Mikal Skuterud.Professor Skuterud has written extensively on the economics of Canadian immigration, he's been consulted by different Ministers, and he's been a vocal critic of the government's management of the immigration file, especially with respect to temporary foreign workers. In part two, Nate is joined by Lisa Lalande, the CEO of Century Initiative, a group that advocates for policies to strengthen Canada's long-term economic prospects, including by growing our overall population to 100 million people by 2100. Ms. Lalande argues for strong but smartly managed immigration to ensure Canada's economy remains competitive and resilient in the long-term, and she makes the case that Canada must build housing and improve healthcare to accommodate smart growth as well as our non-economic goals. In some ways, the guests are sharply at odds with one another. But in others, there is alignment: that Canada needed to tackle temporary immigration levels, but has caused further unnecessary challenges by reducing permanent immigration levels.Youtube: This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

On this episode, Mark Carney joins Nate on the podcast to discuss the current political landscape, sustainable finance and the economic opportunities of climate action, and his future in politics as now economic advisor to the Liberal Party and potential future candidate.Mark has served as the Governor of the Bank of Canada and then the Governor of the Bank of England. He now serves as the UN Special Envoy on Climate Action and Finance, and as the Vice Chair of Brookfield Asset Management. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

On this episode Prime Minister Justin Trudeau joins Nate to discuss the next election, successes and failures in governing, and what comes next.Watch the full podcast on YouTube: This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

On this episode Lisa Raitt joins Nate on the podcast to discuss the complexities of political life, the challenges of balancing political and personal life, and the importance of fostering collaboration across party lines. They reflect upon the challenges that Canada faces, including changes in Economic growth and productivity, the role of corporations within this change, and how housing affordability impacts Canadians.Lisa's background includes service as a Member of Parliament for eleven years, working in the ministries of natural resources, labour, and transport. Lisa also shadowed former finance minister Bill Morneau before serving as the deputy leader of the Federal Conservatives under Andrew Scheer.She now works for Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC) as the Vice-Chair and Managing Director of Global Investment Banking.Lisa and Nate explore the pressures that are placed upon politicians in their day to day lives and the increasing importance of co-operation across Canadian politics.  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

On this episode Matthew Mendelsohn joins Nate on the podcast to discuss the issue of wealth concentration and its threat to democratic stability. They discuss practical solutions to address wealth inequality, trust in democratic institutions, the role of the federal public service and the need for a competent and responsive government.Matthew's extensive background includes serving as the Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet (Results and Delivery) in the Privy Council Office of Canada, where he played a key role in developing and implementing the federal government's policy agenda.His work focused on achieving measurable results and improving government performance, particularly in areas related to inclusive economic growth, tax reform, and public service effectiveness.Nate and Matthew explore the concept of inclusive growth, which focuses on equitable and sustainable economic growth benefiting both communities and individuals. They also highlight progress made on Indigenous issues and the need for transparency and risk-taking in the civil service.Watch on YouTube: This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

Nate is joined on this episode by Dr. Jane Philpott, a former federal Health Minister and currently the Dean of Health Sciences at Queen's University. She has recently published her book: Health for All, A Doctor's Prescription for a Healthier Canada. Before politics, Dr. Philpott practiced family medicine for over 25 years, including important development work in Niger. She was elected in 2015 and served in cabinet in a number of roles, including in Health and Indigenous Services. She was a member of the Liberal caucus until the SNC-Lavalin affair, after which she ran as an independent candidate in the 2019 election.Nate and Dr. Philpott discuss her book 'Health for All' and the need for improved access to primary care in Canada, a better focus on the social determinants of health, and why we should treat substance use as a health issue in the midst of a devastating public health crisis. They also discuss her time in politics, including her reflections on how she left, and whether she would be interested in returning to political life. Watch the full podcast here: This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

Nate is joined by Mohamed Shuriye, Director of Community Safety and Well-being at the City of Toronto to discuss police reform and more effective alternate public health responses. Mo has led the city's efforts to develop an alternative community safety response model that is now rolling out across Toronto. While conservatives seem intent on fighting a renewed war on drugs and pursuing fear-based policies, the evidence continues to point to a public health approach for people in crisis, in collaboration with community partners. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

Nate is joined on this episode by Conservative MP Arnold Viersen. They talk about his legislation to protect people on porn platforms, his social conservative views and advocacy on abortion, and the role of social conservatism in today's Conservative Party. In the interest of full transparency, Nate invited Arnold on the podcast to talk about C-270. However, Arnold had introduced a petition to protect the preborn in early May, and has a history of advocacy against abortion. So Nate also asked him questions about his social conservatism, and only after a half hour conversation about his legislative work on pornography. Arnold emailed Nate to say he felt ambushed and that he would not have come on the podcast. We're posting the whole thing, unedited, and you be the judge. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

Nate is joined on this episode by Columbia law student Safia Southey and thoracic surgeon Dr. Amgad Elsherif.Safia participated in the encampment at Columbia that helped to spark similar protests at campuses across North America. She speaks to the importance of protest, the role students can play in raising awareness and affecting change, and the need to differentiate between criticism of Israel and antisemitism.Dr. Amgad Elsherif is a thoracic surgeon based in Ontario who has been on the ground in Gaza to provide emergency medical care. He shares his firsthand experiences of the devastating impact of the war on children in Gaza, including the impacts of the inability to access basic medical supplies.Chapters:00:00 Introduction and Background of the Guests01:24 The Distinction Between Criticism of Israel and Anti-Semitismwith guest Safia Southey (3:00)3:00 Safia's Background and Initial Involvement05:10 Details of the Columbia Encampment07:44 Safia's Personal Motivations and Experiences12:42 Addressing Antisemitism and Criticism of Israel20:23 Complexities of Zionism and Palestinian Rights20:45 The Complexity of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict24:43 The Need for a Ceasefire and Protection of Civilian Lives32:04 Challenges Faced by Student Protesters at Columbia University34:26 Media Coverage of the Crackdown36:46 Threats and Intimidation by the Schoolwith guest Dr. Amgad Elsherif (43:18)44:12 The Reality on the Ground in Gaza53:08 Effectiveness of IDF Messages to Civilians59:15 The Human Impact of War on Children01:02:51 Recognition of a Palestinian State This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

Nate is joined on this episode by Neil Hetherington, CEO of the Daily Bread Food Bank, to discuss the recent surge in food bank visits, the diverse demographics of those in need, and the crucial role of policy reform in alleviating poverty and homelessness.Neil Hetherington joined Daily Bread Food Bank as CEO in January 2018. Neil's non-profit experience includes 16 years as CEO of Habitat for Humanity in Toronto, and then New York City, and two years as CEO of Dixon Hall, a multi-service agency with 240 staff serving thousands of people in Toronto through its social programs, shelters, seniors' programs, youth initiatives and community revitalization efforts. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

Nate is joined on this episode by economist Trevor Tombe for a discussion on the price on pollution, its impact on food inflation, wealth and capital gains taxation, and the government's acquisition of the TMX pipeline. Trevor is a professor of Economics at the University of Calgary and a Research Fellow at The School of Public Policy, with research exploring a broad range of topics, but focused mainly on international trade, macroeconomics, and fiscal federalism. He is also a co-director of Finances of the Nation. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

Nate is joined on this episode by Green MP for Kitchener Centre Mike Morrice for a discussion on the Canada Disability Benefit, the successes and shortcomings of the government's climate plan, and the importance of acting as a voice for one's constituents. Mike was first elected in 2021 and has been a strong local advocate for greater climate action, as well as the need to lift people out of poverty and more meaningfully address wealth inequality. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

Nate is joined on this episode by Conservative MP Marilyn Gladu for a discussion on the challenges faced when protecting civil liberties in Canada, as well as a wider conversation on areas of common ground and disagreement. Marilyn represents the riding of Sarnia—Lambton. She is a professional engineer by trade, who worked for Dow Chemical for 21 years in a variety of roles locally and globally. Her work in the house has ranged from work to ensure greater access to palliative care, better pension protections and her current role as opposition critic for civil liberties. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

Nate is joined on this episode by Minister of Environment and Climate Change Steven Guilbeault for a wide-ranging discussion on Canada's environmental policy, the work being done to combat attempts by the Conservatives to undermine that policy, and the importance of communicating what is being done to ensure that any progress is lasting. Steven Guilbeault was first elected as the Member of Parliament for Laurier—Sainte-Marie in 2019. He has previously served as Minister of Canadian Heritage. Prior to politics, he was known for his activism with Green Peace and as the founder of Équiterre, the largest environmental organization in Quebec. To read more of Nate's writing on the carbon price below: This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

On this episode, Nate is joined by MP for Victoria and NDP environment critic Laurel Collins. The discussion covers a range of issues including Nate and Laurel's shared desire for a youth climate corps, Canada's climate progress more broadly, and Laurel's work to address domestic abuse. At the end of the episode, Laurel highlights a virtual event taking place on Monday Monday, March 18th where young activists & MPs from across party lines will discuss the creation of a national Youth Climate Corps.Click here to RSVP.Lastly, starting with this episode, you will be able to watch full episodes of the Uncommons podcast on YouTube. Click here to watch. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

Nate is joined on this episode by Housing, Infrastructure, & Communities Minister Sean Fraser to talk about the single most important issue in this country at the moment: housing affordability. The lack of housing affordability is a generational challenge. Young people are worse off than their parents. It is as simple as that. And it's also an economic productivity challenge. Young people are leaving in significant numbers because they can't afford to stay and that has knock-on negative consequences for labour productivity, and talent retention. Sean is relatively new in the role, and it certainly seems as if he's been firing on all cylinders ever since taking it on. While we've seen steadily growing federal action on social housing and homelessness since 2015. We've seen more serious action in recent months to address restrictive zoning, waive GST on rental construction, and to get all kinds of housing built. So how does the Housing Minister stack up his plan against the competition? What more can and should we be doing to get housing built? And how can we best communicate our plan of action when the scale of the challenge is so great, and it takes time for new policies to be realized on the ground? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

Nate is joined on this episode by Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow for a discussion on federal-municipal cooperation, navigating the city's difficult financial situation, and what she hopes to accomplish with her first budget as mayor. You can listen to the #UncommonsPod wherever you get your podcast, or at Uncommons.ca where you can also find Nate's recent substack posts including one on federal-municipal cooperation. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

Nate is joined on this episode by Yasir Naqvi, a friend, a former opponent in the Ontario Liberal leadership race, and a continued federal colleague. Yasir is a lawyer, and an experienced politician who served in several provincial ministerial positions, including as attorney general. It's a wide-ranging conversation, reflecting on shared and sometimes different experiences in a leadership race, and touching on what they plan to do next. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.uncommons.ca

On our first episode back, Nate is joined by the founder of Bellingcat Eliot Higgins. Bellingcat is an investigative journalism website that specializes in fact-checking and open-source intelligence. Elliott himself began blogging about the Syrian civil war over 10 years ago. His work individually and as part of Bellingcat has ultimately created an incredible citizen-led community of journalists and fact-checkers. If nothing else, Elliott is intent on restoring our collective concern for the truth. And it's hard to think of something more important than that, especially as we all now increasingly live our lives in a world of such fast-moving information.

Nate is joined on this episode by David Crombie for a discussion on the Greenbelt, the protection of the Greenbelt, and the Ford government corruption surrounding the Greenbelt.David Crombie is the former mayor of Toronto from 72 to 78. He's a former cabinet minister, and Clark and Mulroney governments, and most importantly for this conversation. He was the chair of the Greenbelt Council, and resigned at the end of 2020 because he saw the direction that the Ford government was heading.This episode marks a new season where we will be shifting focus to Ontario politics as Nate continues to run for the Ontario Liberal leadership.To learn more about his campaign, and sign up to vote, visit MeetNate.ca. 

Nate is joined on this episode by former Mayor of Toronto, David Miller. Before running for public office, he was a partner at the Toronto law firm Aird & Berlis, where he specialized in employment and immigration law and shareholder rights. He became a Metro councillor in 1994, and in 1997 he was elected to the new City of Toronto council where he served two terms prior to becoming mayor.Following his time as Mayor, Miller briefly returned to law before serving as president and CEO of the World Wildlife Fund Canada from 2013 to 2017, after which he began working as the director of international diplomacy at C40 Cities Climate Leadership Group.As you may know, there's an unexpected Mayoral race here in Toronto, so the conversation does cover some of that ground. As well as issues affecting municipalities all across Canada - housing, transit, how we should see the relationship managed between municipalities and provincial and federal governments, and how we should think about ambitious city building.

Nate is joined on this episode by Kimberly Murray for a discussion on her ongoing work to address trauma, realize justice, and advance reconciliation. Kimberly is the Independent Special Interlocutor for Missing Children and Unmarked Graves and Burial Sites associated with Indian Residential Schools. Prior to this new role, Ms. Murray was the Province of Ontario's first ever Assistant Deputy Attorney General for Indigenous Justice. From 2010 to 2015, she was the Executive Director of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada. Prior to that, she was a staff lawyer and then executive director of Aboriginal Legal Services of Toronto. She is a member of the Kahnesatake Mohawk Nation. She is currently the Executive Lead for the newly created Survivors' Secretariat at the Six Nations of the Grand River, working to recover the missing children and unmarked burials at the Mohawk Institute.Content Warning: This episode includes detailed discussions of personal accounts of residential school survivors. 

Nate is joined on this episode by Dr. Isaac Bogoch for a discussion on Neglected Tropical Diseases, global health equity, pandemic prevention and preparedness and his advocacy during the pandemic.He's a professor of medicine at U of T, an infectious diseases specialist with a focus on tropical diseases and HIV, and he became very public facing in his work and regular commentary through the COVID pandemic. Click here for more info on NTDs & click here to learn more about Nate's pandemic prevention & preparedness bill

On this episode, Nate is joined by Jennifer Keesmaat for a discussion around housing, transit, and the roles that each level of government can and should play. Jennifer is the former Chief Planner for the City of Toronto, she's worked around the world in urban design, and she's currently a partner at and co-founder of Markee Developments, doing the work of building affordable housing. It is past time for all levels of government to deliver on housing and transit. If we don't, we will see productivity and generational fairness challenges only further exacerbated.Now, we have a mayoral election ahead of us, and an opportunity for greater ambition here in Toronto. At the provincial and federal levels, we have upcoming budgets, and an opportunity to revisit and reinvest in our National Housing Strategy, for example.But as I think about Liberal and progressive politics more broadly, we have to send a strong message that we are ready to build and especially to build housing and transit. There is no reason for us to cede that ground to anyone else. 

On this episode, a conversation with former principal secretary to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and current Eurasia group Vice Chair Gerry Butts. During his time in the Prime Minister's office, his work included overseeing economic policy, the negotiation of the Paris climate accord, and the creation of Canada's first national climate change plan, which included an economy-wide price on carbon. Currently, his work focuses on advising global financial firms, educational institutions, and philanthropists on strategic investments in climate mitigation and resilience. 

Nate is joined on this episode by Timmins Mayor, Michelle Boileau. First elected as a councillor in 2018, she's a born and raised northerner, a proud Franco-Ontarian, she has a range of different experiences in the post-secondary sector, and at only 34, she represents thoughtful generational change, with a focus on serious long-term impacts rather than short-term election cycles.And while she also ran as a federal Liberal candidate in the 2019 election, she has taken a positive and non-partisan approach to her work.This is the second in a series we'll continue, focused on the civic leadership we need. Our last episode with Mayor Amy Martin covered some of the issues faced in southwestern rural Ontario, and this conversation with Mayor Boileau is squarely focused on the needs of her northern municipality. 

Nate is joined on this episode by Norfolk County Mayor Amy Martin. Mayor Martin is the kind of Mayor we could all use more of. She's passionate, smart, kind, and she's driven to make a difference in her home community. She served as a counsellor starting in 2018, and she defeated an incumbent mayor this past fall. She is also a product of Norfolk County herself, and at the age of 34, she represents the generational change we very much need with an approach to politics that we very much need. She comes to politics with experience in the nonprofit sector, including stints with the Heart and Stroke Foundation and the MS Society. This is the first in a series of podcasts we plan to do with new civic leaders to hear about the issues in different communities and to highlight a new generation of municipal leadership. Be sure to check back as we continue to post new episodes in this series

Nate is joined by Dr. Bob Bell to talk about the key challenges facing our healthcare system and what we should make of the proposed expansion of for-profit delivery and surgical procedures proposed by Premier Ford. Dr. Bell is a former surgeon. He served as Ontario's Deputy Minister of Health from 2014 to 2018. And he's held senior leadership positions at a number of healthcare organizations, including as president and CEO of the University Health Network. On the healthcare file federally, the prime minister will be hosting the premiers on February 7 to make headway toward new health accords.  We've been clear at the federal level that our dollars will come with strings attached, including five priority areas. 1. Reducing backlogs and supporting our healthcare workers. 2. Enhancing access to family health services.3. Close to my heart, improving mental health and substance use services. 4. Helping Canadians age with dignity and closer to home. 5.  using health data and digital health more effectively. 

Nate is joined by Benjamin Perrin to discuss his criticisms of the Conservative Party's renewed call for a war on drugs but also this Liberal government's slow and incremental action in the face of an overwhelming crisis. Ben advocates for bringing a compassionate, evidence-based approach to pressing criminal justice issues like the treatment of victims of crime and offenders, the opioid crisis and reimagining criminal justice.Ben is a professor at the University of British Columbia, Peter A. Allard School of Law. He served as a law clerk at the Supreme Court of Canada, and was the lead justice and public safety advisor to Prime Minister Stephen Harper from 2012-13. 

Nate is joined on this episode by Catherine Mckenna, former minister of environment and climate and former minister of infrastructure and communities. She is currently the Chair of the United Nations High-Level Expert Group on the Net-Zero Emissions Commitments of Non-State Entities.The discussion covers a range of topics at federal and provincial levels but primarily focuses on a report from her UN working group, which calls out greenwashing and recommends radical transparency and accountability to make net zero pledges a reality. 

Nate is joined by Dr. Ladan Boroumand to discuss the courageous and sustained uprisings in Iran following the death of Mahsa Jina Amini. Dr. Ladan Boroumand is the co-founder of the Abdorrahman Boroumand Center for the Promotion of Human Rights and Democracy in Iran, a nongovernmental organization that promotes human rights awareness through education and information dissemination, including by way of the online human rights library Omid memorial, a website that documents human rights abuses committed by the Islamic Republic and memorializes its victims. In addition, she serves on the Steering Committee of the World Movement for Democracy.

Nate is joined by Dr. Tara Kiran a physician and medical researcher and professor who, over the last decade, has led a program of research evaluating the impact of primary care reforms on quality in primary care in Ontario. She and her team have studied the impact of financial incentives on diabetes care and cancer screening, compared chronic disease prevention and management between various practice models, evaluated the impact of mandated after-hours provision on emergency department use, explored the association between the access bonus and healthcare use, and highlighted the quality gaps for patients left out of enrolment models. More recently, she has been focusing her efforts on quality improvement research including initiatives to improve cancer screening rates, measure and reduce care disparities, and support physicians to learn from data. As provinces look to improve healthcare and as a debate between provinces and the federal government around healthcare heats up, it is important that we consider the gaps in the existing system to improve care across the province. To participate in Dr. Kiran's Our Care study, go to. OurCare.ca or click here

Nate is joined by Taylor Bachrach, who makes a strong case for why we should lower the voting age to 16 and, at a minimum, send Bill C-210 to a parliamentary committee for further study.  Taylor makes the argument that the government is facing some of the most consequential decisions in history with respect to the lives of young people and that we, therefore, ought to give young people a say in the future they will face. Taylor Bachrach has represented the riding of Skeena-Bulkley Valley since 2019. Prior to entering federal politics, Taylor served as municipal councillor in the Village of Telkwa and as mayor of the Town of Smithers. 

Nate is joined on this episode by Dr. Adil Shamji - the new Liberal MPP for Don Valley East, and a former emergency room doctor. Adil led a fascinating career before politics, as you'll hear from him directly about, including work in remote communities, supporting homeless shelters, and more.He's now one of only 8 Liberal MPPs, and so he has far too many critic roles, including Health, Northern Development, Indigenous Affairs and Colleges and Universities. And while the focus of our conversation is predominantly healthcare, Adil rightly steers the conversation to other issues as well, with the view that all policy is health policy.

On this Uncommonspod, I'm joined by Liberal MP Anthony Housefather who shares a similar approach to politics that is less partisan and with a willingness to speak one's own mind.He's done just that most recently with his work and comments in relation to Hockey Canada's actions in response to sexual assault allegations and to the government's inexplicable anti-racism funding to an organization led by someone with a long history of anti-semitic comments.Anthony has been at the forefront of addressing anti-Semitism in Parliament and on the global stage, and our work has aligned here too as we've both worked internationally to hold social media platforms accountable for online hate. Of course, we don't always agree as you'll see through our discussion of the real world implications of the notwithstanding clause. But that reasonable disagreement is central to improving our own views and advocacy, central to the party we are both a part of, and central to a stronger democracy. 

Nate is joined by Kathleen Wynne to discuss her time as premier, the issues facing the provincial government, and rebuilding the Ontario Liberal Party.  Kathleen is the former premier of Ontario, having been elected in 2013 as the first woman and openly gay person to hold the office. She served as the MPP for Don Valley West from 2003 until this most recent provincial election this year. During her time in office prior to becoming premiere, she held several key cabinet positions including Aboriginal Affairs, Municipal Affairs and Housing, Transportation, and Housing. 

In this episode Nate talks with Ronald Deibert about the role Canada should play in ensuring its own transparency with respect to cyber surveillance, and ensuring that our use of technology is consistent in respecting human rights. Ron is Professor of Political Science, and Director of the Citizen Lab at the Munk School of Global Affairs & Public Policy, University of Toronto. The Citizen Lab is an interdisciplinary laboratory focusing on research, development, and high-level strategic policy and legal engagement at the intersection of information and communication technologies, human rights, and global security.

On this episode, Nate discusses competition reform in Canada with a panel of guests made up of Vass Bednar, Robin Shaban and Denise Hearn. All three have recently spoken at the House of Commons Industry Committee, and have stressed that competition reform should be a priority for our government. Denise Hearn is currently a Senior Fellow at the American Economic Liberties Project and co-lead of the Access to Markets initiative. She also serves as Board Chair of The Predistribution Initiative which aims to improve investment structures and practices to address systemic risks like inequality, biodiversity loss, and climate change.Vass Bednar is a public policy entrepreneur working at the intersection of technology and public policy. Her work is interdisciplinary with a focus on ensuring that we have the regulatory structures we need to embrace the future of work and new ways of living.  She has held leadership roles at Delphia, Airbnb, Queen's Park, the City of Toronto, and the University of Toronto.Robin Shaban is the co-founder and senior economist of Vivic Research, an economic consulting firm serving advocates, think tanks, governments, labour unions, and other agents engaged in the development of public policy. They are also a co-founder and director of the Canadian Anti-Monopoly Project (CAMP), which advocates for policy conducive to a more democratic economy

In this episode, Nate is joined by Conservative MP for Durham and former leader of the Conservative Party of Canada Erin O'Toole for a wide-ranging conversation that covers his time as leader, his concerns about populism, and what comes next for him. The conversation also touches on stories of First and Second World War veterans that have been shared with Nate and Erin, and candid reflections on what ultimately brought down Erin's leadership of his party. 

On this episode, Nate talks with NDP MP Gord Johns about drug decriminalization and his private member's bill C-216.After this, Nate discusses decriminalization with Health Canada's Substance Use Task Force, each of whom brings a unique perspective to the issue. Following this are clips from past episodes that discussed drug decriminalization, including episodes with Louise Arbour, Akwasi Owusu-Bempah, & Kennedy Stewart. 

In this episode, Nate speaks with friend and mentor Angela Swan about her lived experience as a trans-woman. Angela is a legal scholar having written a number of papers, reviews, books, case comments and annotations on topics such as contract law, civil litigation and conflict of laws. Her work has been cited with approval by a number of courts, including the Supreme Court of Canada. She is frequently retained by other law firms as an expert witness in connection with matters pertaining to the law in Ontario. Angela was also recently appointed as an Officer of the Order of Canada. 

On this episode, a conversation from the vault with climate scientist, former BC MLA, and former leader of the BC Green Party Dr. Andrew Weaver. Their conversation ranges from a reflection on the outcomes of COP26, to his view on the goal of keeping global warming below 1.5 degrees, to reflections on his time in politics. Since this discussion, our government has tabled Canada's Climate Plan, which commits to net-zero emissions by 2050, carbon pollution pricing, climate change adaptation and resilience, clean technology and jobs, and expert engagement on climate action.

In this episode, Nate is joined by Sahir Khan and Brett House to discuss Budget 2022, tabled on April 7th 2022.Sahir is a public finance executive, teacher, advisor and speaker.  The focus of his work has been on budgetary and financial analysis, reporting and organizational performance.  He is a co-founder of the University of Ottawa-affiliated IFSD. Brett House is a macro-economist, the former deputy chief economist at Scotiabank, a Rhodes scholar, and a senior fellow at Massey College. The conversations with each guest range from fiscal sustainability and fiscal prudence in an inflationary environment to modern supply-side economics, as well as cryptocurrencies. With both conversations highlighting the importance of trust in government. 

David Herle joins Nate to discuss the Liberal-NDP deal and his concerns. David leads a public research firm, and he's a long-time political consultant, Liberal strategist, campaign manager, and more. But he is best known these days as the host of the most popular political podcasts in Canada, with both The Herle Burly and The Curse of Politics.

Andrew Leslie joins Nate to discuss Russia's unconscionable war of aggression and attack on Ukraine, what more Canada can do to help, and the critical need to improve our country's military capacity.Andy is a retired Canadian Forces lieutenant-general and a former Liberal MP.  In his 35 year military career, he served for four years as the chief of the Land Staff, and as an MP he held the role of Chief Government Whip. After serving an initial term in Parliament, Andy opted not to run for re-election. In support of Ukraine, Canada has levied serious and targeted sanctions against Putin, his inner circle, and key financial institutions. We've contributed hundreds of millions in economic support. And we are throwing open our borders to help.We are also providing military support, but Andy makes the case that such support is sorely limited by existing capacity and that we should address that lack of capacity now. 

Michelle Rempel joins Nate to discuss the bizarre World Economic Forum conspiracy theory, its negative impact on her own life, and some of the criticism she's directed at her own caucus colleagues for trafficking in such conspiracies. Michelle and Nate also discuss the Conservative leadership race, her recent crypto legislation, and the common ground they share in support of electoral reform, dissent and accountability in Parliament, and stronger animal protections (an issue they've worked together on in the past). Michelle was first elected to Parliament in 2011 and represents the riding of Calgary Nose Hill. She served as a Minister in the Harper government, she's been one of Prime Minister Trudeau's fiercest critics, and she is one of the most prominent Conservatives in Canada. She also very much does her own thing, using her voice not only to hold the government to account, but to push her own party at times. 

Joe Cressy joins Nate to discuss his role helping to lead the city's pandemic response, a public health approach to the opioid crisis, Toronto's housing affordability challenge, and why he's leaving politics at the end of his current term.Joe Cressy is the City Councillor for Toronto's Ward 10, Spadina-Fort York. As the Chair of Toronto's Board of Health, he's played a leading role in the city's pandemic response alongside Mayor Tory, putting their political differences aside to put public health first. In that same role, Joe has also been vocal about the need for stronger efforts to combat the ongoing opioid crisis, that has only been exacerbated by the pandemic. He helped to secure inter-governmental approval for Toronto's supervised consumption sites, and the Board of Health has recently called on the federal government to decriminalize the possession of drugs for personal use, following Vancouver and BC's lead.Joe grew up in a political family and both of his parents were city councillors. After managing a successful campaign for his friend Mike Layton, Joe put his name on the ballot in 2014, first unsuccessfully at the federal level, and then successfully for city council in Ward 10. He's served his Spadina-Fort York community ever since, but he will be leaving politics at the end of this term, when the next municipal election rolls around this fall. 

 With the federal government invoking the Emergencies Act for the first time since its adoption in 1988, Nate is joined by national security experts Leah West and Wesley Wark on the question of whether the Act is a justified response to the illegal blockades across our country.Dr. Leah West is a professor at the Norman Paterson School of International Affairs at Carleton University, the co-author of the textbook National Security Law, and one of the hosts of the Intrepid Podcast. She previously served as Counsel with the Department of Justice in the National Security Litigation and Advisory Group, and before that she served in the Armed Forces for ten years as an armoured officer. Wesley Wark is a CIGI senior fellow, and recently retired from U of T's Munk School. From 2005-2009, he served on the Prime Minister's Advisory Council on National Security, he's the co-editor of Secret Intelligence, a book in the field of intelligence studies, and former editor of the journal Intelligence and National Security. He's previously provided advice to the Minister of Public Safety on national security legislation and policy, and I've had the opportunity to engage with him when he's attended as a witness at our parliamentary committee hearings.