Talking Joy Podcast

Join Pam for a guided meditation as we reflect on 2024 and write goals for the New Year, 2025. What could you use more of in your life? What could you use less of in your life? What is your word for 2025? There is a blank canvas on the road before you, follow along and write your goals and intentions as a spiritual practice. www.talkingjoy.org

Pam guides us through a visualization meditation for self-awareness including quotes by Mark Nepo and Thích Nhất Hạnh. Grab a pen and paper, find a quiet place and indulge in some time for yourself.

Join Pam Robertson for a guided Advent meditation focusing on these themes: hope, peace, love and joy! Listen along to a Christmas story about being present followed by suggestions from author Joyce Rupp on how to cultivate more presence for yourself this holiday season. Finally a list of where to find the Christmas story in the Bible.  Podcast Music by Adam Gilbert Resources: Opening: Matthew West that invites readers to return to God during the Christmas season in his book, Come Home for Christmas.   Where is the Christmas story in the Bible? Prophecy-Isaiah 9 notably v. 6-7 Mary & the Annunciation Luke 1: 26-38 (announcement from the Angel Gabriel) Joseph & visit from the angel in a dream-Matthew 1: 18 - 25 Mary visits Elizabeth & Mary's Magnificat (song of praise) -Luke 1:39-56 The birth of Jesus-Luke 2: 1 - 7 Shepherds and angels-Luke 2: 8 - 20 Visit of the Magi-Matthew 2: 1-12 Story: A Christmas Miracle, Family Circle, Dec.2013 by Glennon Doyle Melton Suggestions for giving the present of presence by Joyce Rupp. 

When teacher Anne Sussman started to meditate every day, the trajectory of her life took off! She started to sleep through the night; was far less anxious; and she started to hear that small voice in her heart that said, “quit your job, because you're miserable,” louder than she heard the chatter in her mind that said “what are you crazy? You can't quit your job!” The more she meditated, the clearer it became. become a certified meditation instructor, learning the trademarked method of SEED - Simple Easy Every Day meditation. She then went on to become a Mindfulness@Work trainer, so she could share the tools that helped change her life so profoundly. She went back to school to become a certified meditation instructor, learning the trademarked method of SEED - Simple Easy Every Day meditation. Join us as she guides us through a meditation. www.talkingjoy.org Connect with Anne: https://www.mindfulnessmeetingplace.com

For Love of the Broken Body is a beautiful, surprising, honest memoir about Sister Julia's journey to Franciscan sisterhood. At the age of 25, just a month into her novitiate as a Franciscan Sister, Julia Walsh fell from a cliff and became disfigured. While working toward healing, she felt pulled to religious community life, but also toward unresolved feelings regarding her own sexuality, identity, and injustice.For Love of the Broken Body is a story of pain, questioning, recovery, and discovery. Join host Pam Robertson for an inspiriting conversation with Sr. Julia about her new book. www.talkingjoy.org To purchase the book: https://bookshop.org

Susan S. Phillips is Executive Director and Professor of Christianity and Sociology at New College Berkeley (an affiliate of the Graduate Theological Union in California). Susan is keenly interested in how engaging the caring practices will shape us spiritually. She is a certified spiritual director (Mercy Center, Burlingame, California) and has practiced spiritual direction since the early 1990s. The book Candlelight offers an intimate view of spiritual direction through written re-enactments of actual spiritual direction sessions. The experiential practice is accompanied by theoretical and theological foundations guiding it. The book includes the stories of nine men and women whose stories illustrate how the journey of Christian discipleship is helped by spiritual direction.

Want a deeper connection to your Higher Power, others, and your true self, as well as greater peace, meaning, and purpose in your life? A Spiritual Director can be your trusted guide. So, what exactly is Spiritual Direction anyway? In spiritual direction relationship you explore your spiritual journey in an accepting and nonjudgmental environment. It can take place for just a few sessions or many years, as long as you find it beneficial. My guest, Dr. Bruce Tallman is a full-time spiritual director and marriage coach in private practice since 2002. He has written hundreds of articles on the topic and is passionate about his mission, which is to help people grow in wisdom and love. In this episode we will discuss his book, Finding Seekers. Host Pam Rotelle Robertson: www.talkingjoy.org Find Bruce Tallman, purchase his books or to connect here: https://www.brucetallman.com

Join me for an inspiring conversation with bestselling and award-winning author and retreat leader, Joyce Rupp--one of the great spiritual thought leaders of our time. Joyce's newest book, Jesus, Guide of My Life offers reflections for the Lenten Journey. The Lenten season is framed as a spiritual journey that prepares us to celebrate Easter and new life. Joyce invites us to set aside a few minutes each day to read a verse of scripture and prayer response. Then sitting quietly, allow the Spirit's wisdom to speak to you and, if you choose, write a brief prayer reflection yourself. Host Pam Rotelle Robertson www.talkingjoy.org www.meredithsjarsofjoy.com Book: https://www.avemariapress.com/products/jesus-guide-of-my-life

Father Mark E. Thibodeaux, SJ, was born and raised in the town of Church Point, Louisiana. He entered the Jesuits in 1988. He holds degrees in Philosophy, Psychology and Theology from Loyola University of New Orleans and Weston School of Theology in Cambridge, Massachusetts. After his ordination to the priesthood, he worked in Jesuit secondary schools for nine years. In 2007, he began working for the Jesuit Novitiate in Grand Coteau, La. In 2018, after a decade of service as Novice Director, he left that work to become pastor of Holy Name of Jesus Church in New Orleans. He is the author of six books on prayer and spirituality, including the Armchair Mystic and Ascending with Ignatius www.talkingjoy.com

Healer. Coach. Leader. Teacher. Intuitive. Author. Rosanna M. Lo Meo is an Intuitive and Certified Life Transformed Coach, Breathwork Facilitator, Sound Healer, Author, Integrated Energy Therapy (IET) Master/Teacher, Energy Healer, Usui Reiki Master, Licensed Massage Therapist, Angel Card Reader, B.A. in Psychology & Italian from Rutgers University: She is healing our hearts with contagious enthusiasm! Connect with her here: https://www.newbeginningswithrosanna.com Pam Rotelle Robertson www.talkingjoy.org

HOW DID YOU BECOME AN ENERGY LEADERSHIP MANIFESTATION EXPERT? Since I was 5 years old I have been exposed to metaphysics and the science behind manifestation, thanks to my mom who always loved the magic of science and spirituality combined. It was through my own healing journey that I realized the power of working simultaneously with the mind, body, and spirit to manifest results and sustain them. During this time I went deep into my own subconscious to heal emotions trapped in the body and to regulate my nervous system. Through my healing journey, the SOUL Aligned Success Method™️ was born. sonialopezcoaching.com Connect with Pam: www.talkingjoy.org

My guest Pam Muller specializes in dreams, she facilitates dream group gatherings and gives lectures on tending to one's dreams as a spiritual practice. She will unpack your dream and give you many new ways to explore its meaning in your life. Working with your own dreams is a process of curiosity and inquiry. As dreams come forward enter into a relationship with them in a variety of ways to honor what is coming forward. The Haden Dream Institute: Three basic principles to remember: 1) There is no such thing as a dream with only one meaning or level of meaning. 2) No dream comes to tell you, the dreamer, what you already know. 3) All dreams come in the service of health and wholeness. www.talkingjoy.org

Reverend Sherry Blackman is the pastor of The Presbyterian Church of the Mountain in Delaware Water Gap, Pennsylvania, home to the oldest, continuously running Hiker Hostel on the Appalachian Trail. She is an award-wining, internationally published journalist, poet, and author of Call to Witness, Tales from the Trail, Stories from the Oldest Hiker Hostel on the Appalachian Trail, Rev-It-Up: Tales of a Truck Stop Chaplain that chronicles her adventures as a Truck Stop Chaplain, and Letters to Our Daughters, focusing on finding one's passion and purpose. Rev. Blackman is also a chaplain with the Pennsylvania State Police. www.talkingjoy.org

It definitely feels like a strange coincidence when you see the same series of numbers popping up everywhere! Meet my guest, Vivi Stockwell author of Know Your Numbers. She shares an introduction to numerology. The meaning and history of Numerology and the spiritual significance of numbers. General description of important numbers derived from your birth date. The personal benefits of understanding your Numerology blueprint. What is a Life Path number, how to calculate yours and what it says about your personality and life's purpose. What is a Personal year cycle, how to calculate yours and how it maps out the best times for you to travel, to begin a new project, to change careers, to repair, decorate, move or build your home. www.talkingjoy.org

The life force or energy that animates everything in the universe and your body is the very essence of Qigong. It's a Chinese practice that uses movements and postures and can create many physical healing benefits, but it's important to realize that Qigong is not physical exercise. It moves beyond the muscle and tissue and works in your body at the level of energy, or Qi. Meet Allison Lim: Allie is the Editor of Online Media at Traditional Chinese Medicine World Foundation in New York. And guestElaine Katen: Elaine is the Program Director at Traditional Chinese Medicine World Foundation in New York where she shares her passion for self-healing through Qigong practices. She is a Medical Qigong practitioner and teaches the advanced training of Dragon's Way Qigong® instructors. www.talkingjoy.org

Retired from congregational ministry with the United Church of Canada, the Rev. Dr. Glen Stoudt serves as a spiritual director in his ongoing ministry in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. On this podcast episode he shares with Pam what it means to live “a lifestyle of sharing God's goodness." www.talkingjoy.org

Anything that is fed energy will grow! The Talking Joy Team explores 5 exercises from the book, How To Train A Wild Elephant. "A growing body of research is showing that mindfulness can reduce stress, improve physical health, and improve one's overall quality of life. Jan Chozen Bays, MD—physician and Zen teacher—has developed a series of simple practices to help us cultivate mindfulness as we go about our ordinary, daily lives. Exercises include: taking three deep breaths before answering the phone, noticing and adjusting your posture throughout the day, eating mindfully, and leaving no trace of yourself after using the kitchen or bathroom. Each exercise is presented with tips on how to remind yourself and a short life lesson connected with it." www.talkingjoy.org

YOUR INNER TRANQUILITY with Carol Schoffmann! Carol is a certified reiki master, healing sound practitioner and meditation teacher. She is joining us to talk about her reiki, what to expect in a session, how reiki can help and when you might need a session. An added bonus! Carol offers a five minute sound bath mediation. You will leave this podcast feeing refreshed and energized for the day ahead. Carol first encountered Himalayan singing bowls in 1990 while on my first trip to Nepal. Ever since then, she has had them in her life. Over the years, Carol has played hundreds of singing bowls around the world, testing them for quality and sound, sending the ones that resonated with her back to the U.S. to sell. She kept a few for herself and taught many people how to use them. She became trained in ancient healing protocols using Himalayan singing bowls and shares this experience with the talking joy listeners. www.talkingjoy.com

Talking Joy with Gabrielle Newkirk, stylist, collector and owner of designer consignment boutique The Collective—a place where everything old is new again! The Collective is a designer consignment boutique offering a curated collection of sought-after clothing, bags, shoes and accessories. Gabrielle builds community while styling others in your treasures. She is always looking for the hottest items and the merchandise is always changing.  Located right off the main drag in Summit, NJ at 101 Summit Avenue. www.talkingjoy.org

Join Pam and Dr. Lisa Abeshaus for a conversation about women's health and get the answer to the most frequently asked questions. Dr. Lisa frequently sees patients for Annual Pap Smear/GYN Exam, Birth Control / Contraception, Infertility Consultation, OB-GYN Consultation. She provides caring and compassionate health care for women in every stage of life. She connects to her patients personally. She's been through all these stages of life and can relate to what her patients are going through. She's here to share her knowledge and encouragement no matter what stage of life you are in. www.talkingjoy.org

JOURNALING AS A SPIRITUAL PRACTICE with the Talking Joy Team! Pam sent a journaling prompt every morning for 7 days to the Talking Joy Podcast team before they met for this recording. On this episode we gathered the graces of this meaningful spiritual practice. Here are some suggestions: Jo-Ellen Darling in her book, Journaling as a Spiritual Path says, “make a commitment to try to journal every day even if you only have a couple of minutes, and even if you can only muster a sentence or two. Record the date and anything you notice upon waking, or from your previous day, or what lies ahead today.” To learn more visit: www.talkingjoy.org

Journaling as a Spiritual Path. A new book by Jo-Ellen A. Darling who joins Pam to talk about the benefits and many reasons for journaling. One is to have a ritual that provides us with grounding and stability. Another is to create a place to confide our thoughts, and feelings, our hopes and joys, our struggles, fears, and disappointments. Maybe we journal to have a time to dream, confess without judgment, and contemplate all things….Yet another aspect of journaling is to show us our growth and the lessons we're learning in any number of these areas of our lives. Here are some suggestions from the book: make a commitment to try to journal every day even if you only have a couple of minutes, and even if you can only muster a sentence or two. Record the date and anything you notice upon waking, or from your previous day, or what lies ahead today. If you are new to journaling, or if you have attempted journaling before but it never stuck, you may want to simply write about the happenings of your day or previous day, both significant and insignificant, in chronological order. Afterward: Go back and read the entry—notice what stands out and what draws your attention. Remember that it's not about how well you write but the nuggets of truth in what you have written that is of value. www.talkingjoy.org

Heather Ruce joins Pam to talk about having "Conscious Relationships" with the people in our lives. She says being conscious is a spiritual practice that we must tend to with intentionality, attention and awareness. Heather works with individuals in Wisdom Spiritual Direction and facilitates wisdom practice circles, groups, retreats, and wisdom schools. She offers teaching and guidance in various wisdom and mindfulness practices including Centering Prayer, Christian meditation, sacred chanting, lectio divina, conscious work and embodiment. She has a M.A. Marital and Family Therapy from Bethel University. Find more information about Talking Joy and/or connect with Heather www.talkingjoy.org

Anne Sussman founded Mindfulness Meeting Place to lead mindfulness training for individuals and organizations motivated to find a better way of being. The scientific research is now undeniable, the benefits of mindfulness and meditation are proven to change your brain, your emotional wellbeing and provide tangible tools to manage stress. Take a listen to Pam and Anne talk about this life changing practice. www.talkingjoy.com

Paula D'Arcy, noted author and spiritual leader shares how we might bring a powerful source of compassion into our personal relationships and the broader context of the world by getting around our original mindset to a place where we can see things a little differently than before. Some of ways are letting nature be our teacher, encounters with other traditions and looking for signs to feel God's presence in your life. For more information about our conversation visit www.talkingjoy.org

Inspired by Anne Sussman's book, the Bliss Buddy Project, How Sharing Gratitude Increases Joy, our podcast team paired up to try this gratitude practice. Take a listen and see how sharing your everyday joys with someone helps keeps you accountable and can make all the difference in your quest for joy!. We weren't always consistent and that's ok—it is all part of the practice. For resources mentioned visit: www.talkingjoy.org

Pam and Wisdom teacher, Marcella Kraybill-Greggo discuss four conscious prayers for Advent. The invitation this season is to "catch" yourself and see how many times you notice crossing a threshold and perhaps allowing yourself to sink through the level of initial chatter of your mind and discover the rhythm of the work you are doing. These are the ways we re-member or recollect while baking, wrapping and celebrating in the weeks ahead. Always coming back to our breath and feet. For more information or to connect with Marcella visit: www.talkingjoy.org

Join the Talking Joy Team for a Guided Visualization Meditation followed by a great discussion! Seven Women Exploring the Spiritual Life Together!

Wondering what spiritual direction is really all about? Teresa Blythe a spiritual director, educator and author joins Pam to talk about her popular book Spiritual Direction 101: The Basics of Spiritual Guidance. You'll learn what spiritual direction is, and what it is not. They touch on her other great “how-to” book 50 Ways to Pray: Practices from Many Traditions and Times. For more information www.talkingjoy.org

KIM SHAPIRA is a registered Dietitian with a background in Human Metabolism and Clinical Nutrition from Boston University. She helps people heal their relationship with food. Kim has spent the last 24 years helping people lose weight and keep it off. With a giant emphasis on keeping it off.  Her method has morphed into 6 rules. Kim shares with Pam these rules that help people journey into a normal relationship with food. Kims says we are in an obesity crisis. Diets don't work. Our health is deteriorating and she can really help. www.talkingjoy.org

“Nature Will,” AKA Will Robertson, has a famous YouTube channel with over 1.5 Million views. He is an avid naturalist and joins Pam to talk about our precious planet earth and the actions we can take now to make a difference. Humans are living in a way that is not sustainable, and as a result, the world is undergoing some massive changes. One of the ways we can help is by saving what is called the lungs of the earth--our rainforests. To donate and to learn more about Nature Will visit: https://www.talkingjoy.org/conversations-with-pam

Holly Whitcomb, author of the book The Seven Spiritual Gifts of Waiting. Waiting is something we have ALL been asked to do these past eighteen months. “There may be no more provoking experience than being told, “Wait.” It stops any action we might take. We may feel powerless, unprotected. Someone else holds all the cards." In the intervening moments—or days or weeks or years—waiting beckons us to come to the well of humility, to drink deeply. For more information visit www.talkingjoy.org

Joyce Rupp is well known for her work as a writer, spiritual midwife, international retreat leader, and conference speaker. On this episode of The Talking Joy Podcast we will be discussing one of her favorite books, The Cosmic Dance. Pam has read this book many times, savoring the beauty, thoughtfulness, and wisdom Joyce offers to its readers. It is a beautiful book of poetry, reflection, meditation and the spirituality of life-life on this earth and life in the cosmos. It transcends religious boundaries and speaks to the soul of nature, humanity and divinity, united in one glorious experience of the universe. For more information about our conversation or to purchase the book visit www.talkingjoy.org

The enneagram is a resource for deepening personal and spiritual growth. Enneagram teacher Jeanine Siler Jones helps us explore this valuable tool and how it can help cultivate compassion for ourselves and others. We are all born with a particular style and she touches on the 9 types as an introduction to this practice of self-discovery. These types are broken into triads- the centers of intelligence—head, heart and body. Our conversation highlights why we do what we do, what is the motivation and how we can gain a better understanding of ourselves and others. For additional resources please visit: www.talkingjoy.org

Invite the childlike side of you to come out this summer! Pam and the Talking Joy Team invite you to become freer and more engaged with your family this summer. Try taking your shoes off, going on a gratitude walk or sliding down the water slide at the pool. Often we let everyday tasks get in the way of living the simple pleasures of the summer months. Take a listen and get inspired to go out and make lasting memories with the ones you love! www.talkingjoy.com

Pam is talking joy Meredith Plunkett! Meredith is a mother of three, writer, blogger and a contributor at The Mom Edit, a shopping and lifestyle brand with a candid, playful take on style. Join us as we talk about family, writing and fashion. Pam is huge fan of The Mom Edit because they highlight different clothes on different body types taking the guesswork out of trying new things while helping you to find your own personal style. www.talkingjoy.org

Pam Robertson and Talking Joy's Ariane Pfaff discuss the transition from quarantine back into the busyness of our daily lives. This past year we were forced to slow down and enjoy the simplicity of life, in nature, in our homes and with our families. Hold on to the lessons you learned about yourself. Pam shares an essay written by a student who noticed the difference between running from class to class to living in that space between point A and point B. Slowing down helped her to live between those two letters when she was able slow down and see the ordinary things in her life, finally able to get lost in her own thoughts. What will you say yes to this summer? What will you do to protect your peace of mind? Maybe it starts by not doing everything on your to-do list. Listen to how you can protect your internal pace and to protect they ways you changed for the better. www.talkingjoy.org

Joy Carol's is a modern day heroine. Her fierce spirit and passion for life have allowed her to defy death on eight occasions. Listen as she shares some of her incredible life story of global travel, humanitarian work, and multiple close encounters with death. Through her life-journey, Joy will inspire you and assure you that life can go on, and even the hardest of circumstances can be filled with love, and laughter, hope and joy!

Learn the art of listening with Kay Lindahl, founder fo the Listening Institute! “Listening is so close to being loved, that most people cannot tell the difference.” During our Talking Joy podcast conversation we explore ways to create more peace, harmony, and love in your life. This conversation will encourage you to expand your awareness and broaden your concept of listening. I believe this is the key to the peace and togetherness we are all seeking. Honing our listening skills can and will make the world a better place. www.talkingjoy.org

Together we will look back over the last 24 hours with the prayer of examen. You can do this guided meditation anytime of the day, then perhaps you can journal or jot down notes to reflect upon later. This is also a great practice to do with your kids—you are teaching them to be contemplatives! What a gift to carry into adulthood! This practice also helps us discern (decide) how God is calling us—in big and small ways in our daily life into more awareness of patterns or behaviors--I believe this is the place where transformation begins. www.talkingjoy.org

The Talking Joy Team gets together to talk about sweet memories from childhood. A mother's love, the time we spent together and how we felt loved with the homemade lunches and kisses. Looking back helps us to be better moms in the future. The littlest things really do matter. Pam will show you how you can expand your life with these little positive changes. Over time they help you build a beautiful life and loving relationships. www.talkingjoy.org

New Jersey’s Top Nutritionist, Allison Thibault is back to continue our talk about women's health. Allison is a Licensed/Registered Dietitian Nutritionist & Founder of VivaTotalHealth. Today we are talking about weight gain--the average American gained 29lbs during quarantine! Yikes! To help you stay healthy, we are talking about good eating habits, your digestive system, supplement recommendations and of course, spirituality. You won't want to miss this important conversation! Grab a pen and paper and take a listen. www.talkingjoy.com

All the tips you need to streamline your closet and look your best! Jennifer Rustum and Dana Turk started Pare and Polish, a closet organization and styling service, to help friends clear closet stagnation and to inspire their creativity toward “best self” dressing, every single day. Closets are very personal spaces and these two know how to listen to what you need and help you look your best. They give people that seamless confidence and joy of stepping out into the world in well-fitted clothing they love. www.talkingjoy.org

Fi Sullivan, a Colorado native began singing at age four. She has spent years exploring extended vocal possibilities through new sonic realms in electronic music. Transcendently influenced by the beauty and complexity of nature. Fi has researched Intersections of Technology and Human Vocal Continuity as a 2019 recipient of the Thomas J. Watson Fellowship. She lived and performed in Berlin, Linz, Reykjavík, Nuuk, Dublin, the Hague, Sydney, Canberra, and Buenos Aires before returning to the United States in March 2020. Fi will release her first EP, Shades of Forest, this Spring. For more info. visit the podcast page www.talkingjoy.org

A conversation with Reiki master, Vicky Roncero. Vicky has been a television writer/ producer, for over twenty-five years. She discovered Reiki, early in her TV career, after she had been let go from a job she loved. Learn about this hands on natural healing with the universal life-force energy. www.talkingjoy.org

Mark I. Rosen, Ph.D. is the author of Thank You for Being Such a Pain: Spiritual Guidance for Dealing with Difficult People. Join us for a great discussion about people who cause us to feel emotions we would rather not feel! “When life is easy we don’t really have a motivation to grow and change, and when we get challenged we are forced to grow and change.” ~Mark Rosen www.talkingjoy.org

We are listening to spring! A favorite time of year – a season of awakening, new life and new beginnings. It is also a changing season, often reflecting the ongoing transformation of our souls. Join the Talking Joy Team for a listening practice that will help you awaken to spring after the long winter months. www.talkingjoy.org

Jackie went from drinking herself out of college to spiraling to a very dark place. When got sober at age twenty five, she found hope in a new life with the help of Alcoholics Anonymous. She says she is a completely different and better version of herself since putting down alcohol in 2007. She continues to work on herself, emotionally, mentally and spiritually through the 12 steps of AA. Take a listen to this inspiring story. You will find that there is hope, there is help and there is happiness on the other side. www.talkingjoy.org

An easy conversation with nutrition expert, Allison Thibault about being mindful about what you eat and tips for fueling your body with what it needs most; sleep, hydration, less stress and muscle building. You can start by following these guidelines to help reduce inflammation, support healthy hormonal balance, reduce cravings, support healthy weight loss and maintenance, glowing vibrant skin, improvement in mood and confidence, healthy digestion, and more! Listen in now and visit the Talking Joy Blog for a list of these great tips and resources: https://www.talkingjoy.org/blog

Pam invites us to listen to a prayer by Thomas Merton followed by group discussion. Listen to how these moms are finding ways to help themselves and their kids navigate quarantine--one year later. It is wearing on all of us. Our conversation is a reminder that we are more alike than un-alike. Take a listen. Visit here for resources mentioned during the talk: https://www.talkingjoy.org

Dispatch Band Member, Brad Corrigan, and Middlebury College Athletic Director, Erin Quinn, are talking about their long-standing friendship. Take a listen to this inspiriting story about a young coach and his lasting commitment to support his players on and off the field. Erin's former lacrosse recruit, Brad, says, “In order to truly give, you first have to figure out what God put in your hands.” Learn how they both figured out over time how to serve and uplift people with the “gifts” they have been given. If you would like to know more about Erin and Brad visit https://www.talkingjoy.org/conversations-with-pam