Upzoned

Hartman, Colorado, reached a point where it could no longer function as a town. Its water system was unsafe, every member of the town board had resigned, and no one remained with the authority to hold an election or sign the agreements needed to fix the water. Norm Van Eeden Petersman is joined by Joshua Hopkins, mayor of Chugwater, Wyoming, and Strong Towns executive director John Reuter to look past the political infighting and ask what happened before the final collapse. The question facing places like Hartman and Chugwater is increasingly basic: How much town can a very small community actually afford to maintain? ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Colorado declares town abandoned amid water and leadership crisis" by Ramon Antonio Vargas, Theguardian.com (August 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Joshua Hopkins (LinkedIn, Instagram) John Reuter (LinkedIn) Articles mentioned and Downzone: How a Rodeo Arena Can Strengthen A Rural Community (Bottom-Up Short Episode) Don't Give Up on Your Small Town (Article) Whatever Happened to the Music Teacher? How Government Decides and Why by Donald Savoie (Book)  Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert B. Cialdini (Book) Chugwaterite (Instagram) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

What if the easiest way to overcome opposition to new housing was simply to pay people to accept it? A recent article in The Atlantic argues that after state laws, packed public meetings, and economic appeals have failed to overcome local resistance, cash payments might succeed where persuasion has not. Chuck Marohn is joined by John Reuter, executive director of Strong Towns, and Dr. Chloe Groome, treasurer of Strong Towns Chicago, to test that idea against what they've seen in real neighborhoods. Their discussion turns to what happens when new neighbors are framed as a burden, and whether cash can do the work that persuasion, trust, and local relationships have failed to do. "A Perfectly Crude Solution to America's Housing Shortage" by Rogé Karma, Theatlantic.com (July 2026) Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn) John Reuter (LinkedIn) Dr. Chloe Groome (LinkedIn), Strong Towns Chicago (Site) Articles Mentioned and Downzone: The Human Condition by Hannah Arendt (Site) Farm To Taber (YouTube Channel) Stolen Revolution: Betrayal and Hope in Modern Iran by Yeganeh Torbati and Bozorgmehr Sharafedin (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

What happens when one generation holds much of the country's housing wealth and has little reason to give it up? Chuck Marohn talks with Strong Towns board chair Andrew Burleson and historic property renovator Richard Rumrill about boomers buying bigger homes, even as younger families wait for those houses to come back onto the market. The generational frustration is easy to understand, but the expected handoff assumes older homeowners will be ready to leave. What happens when the people expected to move have nowhere they want to go, and everyone behind them is still waiting? ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Boomers Were Supposed to Downsize. They Are Buying Bigger Homes Instead." by Rachel Louise Ensign, Wsj.com (July 2026) Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn) Andrew Burleson (LinkedIn), Free Range City (Substack) Richard Rumrill (LinkedIn), Strong Towns RVA (Site) Articles Mentioned and Downzone: Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump by Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan (Site) Kids Over Cars (Substack) #42 Charles Duff: North Atlantic Cities - The Forgotten Blueprint for the Future Building Culture (Podcast) The North Atlantic Cities by Charles Duff (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

Americans have been told that buying a home is one of the safest ways to secure their future. But when retirement depends on home values continuing to climb, affordability begins to look like a threat. Carlee Alm-LaBar is joined by Daniel Herriges, co-author of Escaping the Housing Trap, and Alli Thurmond-Quinlan, executive director of the Incremental Development Alliance. Together, they push beyond the idea that housing is simply an investment problem. Limited supply, narrow housing choices, transportation, retirement, and municipal finance are all tied into the same system, leaving people with fewer ways to find security at every stage of life. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "The Housing Crisis Is Also a Retirement Crisis" by Kyla Scanlon, Nytimes.com (July 2026) Downzone: From Strength to Strength, by Arthur C. Brooks (Site) Construction Physics (Substack) World Cup 2026 (Site) Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn) Daniel Herriges (LinkedIn) Alli Thurmond-Quinlan (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

In 2009, Chicago traded 75 years of parking meter revenue for a $1.2 billion payment that helped fill an immediate budget hole. Norm Van Eeden Petersman is joined by Tony Jordan, executive director of the Parking Reform Network, and Edward Erfurt, chief technical advisor at Strong Towns, to look at what the city actually gave up and why its recent $3.3 billion bid never made it to the finish line. The lease still shapes decisions about removing parking for bus lanes, bike lanes and wider sidewalks, while the revenue keeps flowing to a private operator instead of back into the places generating it. That leaves Chicago with a much harder question than whether the original deal was bad: what would it take to manage the curb again, regain flexibility and use that money to improve the streets themselves? ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Mayor's $3 Billion Parking Meter Offer Was $800 Million More Than The Next Highest Bid, Investor Says" by Mick Dumke, Blockclubchicago.org (June 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Tony Jordan (Site) Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn) Articles mentioned and Downzone: 'Why ‘SimCity' has no parking lots, and other insights from the lead designer' (Article) Simulating the Future: a webinar with Stone Librande (Video) A Wailing Of A Town: An Oral History of Early San Pedro Punk And More 1977-1985 by Craig Ibarra (Book)  Recoding America: Why Government Is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better by Jennifer Pahlka (Book) Sam Walton: Made In America, by Sam Walton and John Huey (Book) Microlandia (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

Five years after wildfire destroyed most of Lytton, British Columbia, rebuilding remains slow despite more than $140 million in committed public funding. Norm Van Eeden Petersman talks with Michel Durand-Wood, author of You'll Pay for This, and Graham Watt, who manages strategic initiatives and flood recovery for Grand Forks, British Columbia. They look at what happens when a small town is pushed to rebuild everything at once, while also dealing with hazardous conditions, limited local capacity, consulting costs, modern codes, and the long-term obligation to maintain whatever comes next. The money creates a promise of recovery, but Lytton shows how hard it is to turn that promise back into a town. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Inside Lytton's contentious recovery, where concerns smoulder 5 years after wildfire" by Brenna Owen, Halifax.citynews.ca (June 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Michel Durand-Wood (Site) Graham Watt (LinkedIn) Downzone: The Baby-Sitters Club  Human Nature by Kate Marvel (Site) The Blackthorn Key, by Kevin Sands (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

Chuck Marohn has long been critical of housing research that treats affordability as a simple supply problem. This week, he brings Andrew Burleson, chair of the Strong Towns board, and Jeff Fong, a board member at YIMBY Action, a new paper on Australia's housing crisis that starts somewhere else: with the way price increases move between detached houses and apartments, and from one city to another. The paper argues that detached homes help lead the market, while the discussion keeps returning to a harder question: how much of the crisis is about housing supply, and how much is about the financial incentives built into the market? ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "The role of price spillovers in the Australian housing crisis: A two-market analysis" by Shu-Hen Chiang, Chyi Lin Lee, and Chi Man Eddie Hiu, Sciencedirect.com (June 2026) Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn) Andrew Burleson (LinkedIn), Free Range City (Substack) Jeff Fong (LinkedIn), Urban Proxima (Substack) Articles Mentioned and Downzone: Fifa (Site) 'We Can Never Go Back' (Substack) Apple in China: The Capture of the World's Greatest Company, by Patrick McGee (Goodreads) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

When Charlotte and its regional planning body withdrew support for a $4.3 billion widening of Interstate 77, North Carolina lawmakers responded by threatening a $60 million penalty and a funding cutoff. Host Carlee Alm-LaBar is joined by Patrick Kennedy, whose Atlas of Inner-City Highway Impacts documents highway damage across 142 cities, and John Reuter, the newly named Executive Director of Strong Towns, to break down the sunk cost trap, the real math behind highway "assets," and why the local officials who pushed back may have saved far more than they spent. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "N.C. Lawmakers May Claw Back $60M for Cancelled I-77 Project" by Ray Gronberg, Businessnc.com (June 2026) Downzone: Atlas of Inner-City Highway Impacts (PDF) Mission Accomplished (Site) Dealing with Dragons (Site) Fifa (Site) Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn) Patrick Kennedy (LinkedIn) John Reuter (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.  

A decade ago, a row of North Park storefronts was cleared for a university housing project that never came. The businesses are gone, the buildings are mostly empty, and neighbors are still pushing Northeastern Illinois University to act. Norm Van Eeden Petersman is joined by Bernice Radle, an incremental developer in Buffalo, and Alex Montero of Strong Towns Chicago to ask why places like this get stuck. What begins as the story of one vacant block turns into a deeper question: once a place has been cleared for a future vision, what happens when that future never arrives? The conversation explores why smaller, incremental approaches can succeed where larger plans stall, and what gets lost when neighborhoods are left waiting. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Northeastern University Fought To Take Over A North Park Block. 10 Years Later, It's Still Vacant" by Millie DeVore, Blockclubchicago.com (May 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Bernice Radle (LinkedIn) Alex Montero (LinkedIn) Articles Mentioned and Downzone: The Corner Side Yard (Substack) Cerrone (Spotify) Brittania Mine Museum (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

With the World Cup coming to North America, millions of visitors will encounter more than stadiums and soccer. They'll also encounter the transportation systems, infrastructure gaps, and car-dependent development patterns that shape daily life in U.S. cities. Norm Van Eeden Petersman talks with Chuck Marohn and Rick Cole about “catastrophic money,” the danger of building for spectacle instead of long-term value, and what major events reveal about the places that host them. These visitors will move on when the games are over, but the systems they struggled with will still be ours to live with. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "The U.S. campaigned to host the World Cup. Now soccer fans will trade their countries' train system for the U.S.'s ‘D' rated infrastructure" by Catherine Gioino, Fortune.com (May 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn) Rick Cole (LinkedIn) Articles Mentioned and Downzone: Just a thought: a Texas based World Cup (Article) The Mission: CIA in the 21st Century by Tim Weiner The Troubles: Ireland's Ordeal 1966-1996 and the Search for Peace by Tim Pat Coogan Only Murders in the Building (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

Sam Quinones keynoted the Strong Towns National Gathering last week and closed with a story about a tuba. If that left you wanting more, this conversation with Chuck Marohn is the place to start. This rerun from the Strong Towns Podcast follows Sam's obsession with the “perfect tubas,” the almost-mythic York horns that tuba players have chased for decades. From there, he opens up a wider world of band rooms on the Texas border, long days playing at Disney World, and crowded Tuba Christmas events. Together, he and Chuck connect tubas, band culture, and strict musical standards to addiction, purpose, and how shared work and craft help hold communities together. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES Sam Quinones (LinkedIn, Site) Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

A viral town meeting clip from Marblehead, Massachusetts, raised a question that goes far beyond one zoning debate: What happens when a state says yes to more housing, but the local process still makes it hard to build? Or, as resident David Modica put it, “Are we trying to do nothing?” Carlee Alm-LaBar talks with Strong Towns Technical Advisor Edward Erfurt and Lafayette City Councilman Thomas Hooks about the messy handoff between policy and place. They look at why communities can comply on paper while resisting in practice, and why the next real step may be as small as one block, one lot, or one drawing that helps people see what is possible. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "The Latest Hero of the ‘Yimby' Movement Is a Massachusetts Man in a Hoodie" by Will Parker, WSJ.com (May 2026) Downzone: The Victory of Greenwood, by Carlos Moreno (Site) Scrubs Reboot (Site) Junior League of Lafayette (Site) Strong Towns National Gathering (Site) Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn) Thomas Hooks (LinkedIn) Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

Des Moines just approved an $8.4 million first phase for a $54 million park overhaul. The bid came in over estimate, and there's no maintenance plan in sight — meanwhile the city was cutting services 9% across the board just last year. Norm Van Eeden Petersman talks with parks consultant Jamie Sabbach, author of the new book The Bison Principle, and writer Michel Durand-Wood about what cities consistently leave out of these decisions. Construction is only about 20% of what a public asset costs over its lifetime, and most cities aren't planning for the rest. The conversation gets into maintenance backlogs, why capital and operating budgets are really the same money, and what a city would actually decide if the 50-year cost were part of the conversation from the start. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Birdland Park's $54M Overhaul Moves into Construction Phase" by Jason Clayworth, Axios.com (April 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Jamie Sabbach (LinkedIn), The Bison Principle (Book) Dear Winnipeg (Site), You'll Pay For This! (Book) Articles Mentioned and Downzone: In Praise of Background Buildings by Gracen Johnson Places and Non-Places by Andrew Price Field of Schemes Fizzy Fuzzy Big & Buzzy - Album by The Refreshments Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York by Robert Caro The 99% Invisible Breakdown of The Power Broker Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

What if the street itself did most of the work of slowing cars, instead of another sign or speed trap? Drawing on a new Bloomberg CityLab piece, Carlee Alm‑LaBar is joined by Edward Erfurt and Ann Arbor's transportation manager, Malisa McCreedy, to talk about what these deaths say about speed, design, and the values baked into our networks. They explore why Vision Zero efforts struggle, how Ann Arbor is embedding safety into every project, and why planners and engineers often hesitate to talk openly about crashes, using Ann Arbor's crash analysis studio, university partnerships, and quick‑build projects to show how a city can respond more directly to serious crashes. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Searching for the ‘Smoking Gun' in US Pedestrian Deaths" by David Zipper, Bloomberg.com (April 2026) Downzone: City of Ann Arbor Hosting Crash Analysis Studio (Site) 2026 APA National Planning Conference (Site) "Great Expectations" by Charles Dickens (Site) Strong Towns National Gathering (Site) Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn) Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn) Malisa McCreedy (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

What happens when the American Dream stops meaning “doing better than your parents” and starts meaning “just not falling behind”? Norm Van Eeden Petersman sits down with Andrew Burleson and Ryan Puzycki to untangle why stability feels so fragile, even in “booming” cities. They trace how zoning turns housing into a rigged game of musical chairs, how some places face strangling exclusion while others slide into rolling blight, and how missing bottom rungs on the housing ladder and remote work push rising costs — and workers — farther out. They connect these pressures to a new American Dream: finding a stable home that won't vanish with the next lease. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "The American Dream Meant Upward Mobility. Now, it Means Stability." by Rachel Barber and Veronica Bravo, USAToday.com (March 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Andrew Burleson (LinkedIn) Ryan Puzycki (LinkedIn) Articles Mentioned and Downzone: Adaptive Code (Article) Remote Isn't Working (Article)  The Hobbit, J. R. R. Tolkien (Audiobook) The Social House Will Not Reopen (Article) Sticky Notes: The Classical Music Podcast (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.

In New York City, a playful bracket about broken hoops and dumping sites turns routine maintenance into a citywide tournament. Carlee Alm-LaBar, Edward Erfurt, and Alexander Lazard explore what that reveals about complaint driven 311 systems, how priorities really get set, and which neighborhoods get left off the board entirely. Their conversation presses on whether mayors can turn one clever contest into lasting trust instead of a one week story. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Mayor Mamdani Launches March Madness-style Competition for City Fixes" by Spectrum News Staff, NY1.com (March 2026) "Municipal Madness: Mayor Mamdani Performs Winning City Fix, Cleans Up Illegal Dumping in Soundview on Day 100" (Article) "Mamdani, Leaning Into ‘Sewer Socialism,' Gets His Hands Dirty" (Article) Downzone: "Mary Colter: Builder Upon the Red Earth" by Virginia L. Grattan (Book) "The Image of the City" by Kevin Lynch (Book) "How Big Things Get Done" by Bent Flyvbjerg and Dan Gardner (Book) Strong Towns National Gathering (Site) Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn) Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn) Alexander Lazard (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

Development cost charges are supposed to make growth pay for itself, but this conversation shows just how far that promise falls short. Norm Van Eeden Petersman, Michel Durand-Wood, and Dan Winer unpack Ontario's deal to halve development charges, British Columbia's per‑unit fee structure that punishes small infill, and Winnipeg's court battle over impact fees. They reveal how these choices ripple into housing prices, municipal deficits, and whether existing neighborhoods ever see the gentle density and local services they've been promised. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "City Councillors Fear 'Devil in the Details' in Federal-Provincial Housing Fund" by Arthur White-Crummery, CBC.ca (March 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Dan Winer (LinkedIn) Dear Winnipeg (Site) You'll Pay For This! (Book) Articles mentioned and Downzone: Readying B.C. to deliver more homes for people in communities (Article) The Party Analogy (Article) The Master and His Emissary, Ian McGilchrist (Book) Murderland, Caroline Fraser (Book) Shrill Season 1 (Prime Video) An Inside Job, Daniel Silva (Book)   Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

A Massachusetts town budgeted $600,000 for snow and ended up spending $6 million clearing its streets. Norm Van Eeden Petersman, Daniel Herriges, and Gracen Johnson trace the links between winter operations, stormwater, supply chains, labor, and land use in cities facing serious snow. Starting with Boston's overrun numbers, they widen the lens to Ottawa's snow storage sites and Minneapolis' potholes, asking what happens when seasonal extremes collide with tight city budgets. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "‘That comes with a price tag': How snow removal is busting town budgets" by Kate Selig, Bostonglobe.com (March 2026) "The Cost of an Extra Foot" by Chuck Marohn "Transactions of Decline" by Chuck Marohn Downzone: "Cost-Based Social Rental Housing in Europe" (Web PDF) The Ink (Substack) You'll Pay For This! (Site) Criminal Broads (Site) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Daniel Herriges (LinkedIn) Gracen Johnson (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

While Los Angeles gets ready for the Olympics and World Cup, residents watch trash pile up in the places tourists never see. Chuck, Norm, and Carlee trace the links between auto‑oriented growth, a strained city budget, and basic services that can't keep up. Through one neighborhood organizer's Saturday cleanups, they show how garbage exposes which streets are truly cared for. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Talking Trash" by Alissa Walker, Torched.la (February 2026) Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

A multigenerational home addition sparked national attention and local outrage in Fairfax County, Virginia. Chief Technical Advisor Edward Erfurt sits down with guest host Norm Van Eeden Petersman to explore why legally allowed housing can still feel deeply disruptive — and what this reveals about zoning, design, and incremental change. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Massive Multigenerational Home Addition Sparks Furious Debate in Virginia Community" by Julie Taylor, Realtor.com (November 2025) "The Monster House: Why a Change in Neighborhood Scale Isn't a Bad Thing" by Emma Durand-Wood "Multigenerational Living Isn't Immigrant Culture, It's Human Culture" by Shina Shayesteh Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

Utah wants to override local zoning to boost housing supply, but allowed by right doesn't mean possible in practice. Abby and Edward dig into the hidden barriers — complicated permits, scarce financing, and broken systems — that stop housing from actually getting built. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Utah's Governor Suggests Overriding Local Zoning. Could His Plan Solve—or Shatter—the State's Housing Future?" by Allaire Conte, Realtor.com (November 2025) "Why State Housing Reform is Failing (and What We Can Do About It)" by Edward Erfurt Abby Newsham (X/Twitter) Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

Who decides when community traditions change? Lafayette, Louisiana, recently rerouted its Mardi Gras parade. The goal was to improve public safety, but the change left neighborhoods, businesses, and long-standing customs in the lurch. Guest host Norm Van Eeden Petersman sits down with Lafayette resident and former city staffer Carlee Alm-LaBar to explore how communities can navigate change while respecting culture and shared ownership. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Residents, krewes, downtown businesses weigh in on Jefferson Street Mardi Gras parade route" by Stephen Marcantel, The Acadiana Advocate (November 2025) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

Last week, we heard how DC's outdoor dining regulations threaten local businesses. Today, urban designers Abby Newsham and Edward Erfurt explore how DC could course-correct. They share creative ways that cities can maintain safety while supporting local businesses and even improving the design of their streets. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "After five years, D.C. streateries hit with higher costs and more rules" by By Tim Carman and Rachel Weiner, The Washington Post (November 2025) Painting of a food hall street (Passeig de l'Escultor Miquel Blay, Olot, Espana by Abby Newsham) Abby Newsham (X/Twitter) Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

Washington DC is charging restaurants thousands of dollars to keep their streateries — outdoor dining areas built during Covid-19. Are these fees fair compensation for public space, or will they kill the local businesses they were meant to save? Guest host Norm Van Eeden Petersman dives into this question with Carlee Alm-LaBar, a former city official who helped bring streateries to her own city. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "After five years, D.C. streateries hit with higher costs and more rules" by By Tim Carman and Rachel Weiner, The Washington Post (November 2025) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

Abby is joined by Carlee Alm-LaBar, the chief of staff for Strong Towns, and John Reuter, advisory board member for Strong Towns. They discuss several stories of people across the country taking action to make their communities better, from building houses to painting curbs. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES It's Member Week at Strong Towns! Join the movement today! Read more: Strong Towns San Diego - Curb Chalking Monte Anderson - Roommate House Strong Towns Langley - Baffle Gates Strong Towns Blono - Design Charette Strong Towns Nanaimo - Eliminating Parking Mandates Abby Newsham (X/Twitter) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

Elon Musk's company xAI is building massive data centers in Memphis, promising economic transformation. But at what cost? Abby is joined by Strong Towns Blog Editor and podcast host Asia Mieleszko to dissect the billion-dollar AI infrastructure boom and explore why cities keep falling for "shiny object urbanism." ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES Hear more from Asia on the brand-new podcast Stacked Against Us! "Elon Musk Gambles Billions in Memphis to Catch Up on AI" by Alexander Saeedy, The Wall Street Journal (October 2025) "Shiny Object Urbanism" by Billy Cooney "Where's the Wealth?" by Charles Marohn‍ Abby Newsham (X/Twitter) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom. Hey listener! You hear from us all the time, but today we want to hear from you. We want your feedback on this podcast and any other Strong Towns podcast you like to listen to. Please fill out this quick survey to share your thoughts: strongtowns.org/survey   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

Two towns, two states, and two historic bridges that nobody wants to pay for. Brattleboro, Vermont, wants to reactivate two historic bridges with a pedestrian greenway. Hinsdale, New Hampshire, worries about increased crime and being saddled with the majority of maintenance costs while getting fewer returns. Abby and Norm discuss this dilemma, comparing it to similar bridge projects and identifying possible next steps for activating this underutilized infrastructure. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Can Two Towns Preserve the Bridges That Connected Them?" by Alan Wirzbicki, The Boston Globe (September 2025) Abby Newsham (X/Twitter) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

What do you do with 720,000 square feet of dead mall? Towns across America are struggling to find the answer as their malls shut down, leaving budget craters and infrastructure nightmares in their wake. Abby is joined by Carlee Alm-LaBar, Strong Towns' chief of staff and a former city staffer, to explore whether the answer is a grand redevelopment plan — or thinking radically smaller. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “A Town's Single Largest Taxpayer Is Also Its Biggest Headache” by Jim Zarroli, The New York Times (June 2025). Click here to listen to The Bottom-Up Revolution episode about the 24 Hour Citizen Project. ‍Abby Newsham (X/Twitter)   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

Littleton, Colorado, wants to ban everything other than single-family homes. The neighboring town of Lakewood wants to allow more housing variety. Norm and Abby dive into what's driving these radically different responses to the housing crisis and what happens when cities try to exempt themselves from change. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Two Denver Suburbs Take Different Paths as Residents Face Housing Crunch: We Can Manage It, but Just Barely.” by John Aguilar, The Denver Post (October 2025). Abby Newsham Painting Instagram X/Twitter Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

By the end of 2026, many U.S. cities could see large parts of their public transit systems crumble under a lack of federal funding and a development pattern that was never designed to support it. In this episode, Chuck Marohn and Abby Newsham explore why transit can't survive as a charity and how localized funding and smarter land use could create systems that actually work. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES On October 24, Chuck will join the author of today's article, Jarrett Walker, for a member-exclusive deep dive into transit. Become a Strong Towns member to join in! “Should We Let Public Transit Die?” by Jarrett Walker, Bloomberg City Lab (September 2025) Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).‍‍ Chuck Marohn (Substack) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

The city of Los Angeles recently announced that it saved 1,600 jobs that were at risk of being cut to balance its $1 billion budget deficit. But did it actually fix anything, or is it just shuffling money around to hide the problem? What role do unions play? And what should cities actually do when facing a major budget deficit? Strong Towns Chief Technical Advisor Edward Erfurt dives into these questions with guest host Norm Van Eeden Petersman in this episode of Upzoned. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Mayor Bass says layoffs averted after labor negotiations, "creative solutions" for next year city budget” by Chelsea Hylton, CBS News (September 2025). Finance Decoder Become a Strong Towns member to access weekly Ask Strong Towns Anything sessions. Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Do you know someone who would make for a great The Bottom-Up Revolution guest? Let us know here!

The Tulsa Remote program pays remote workers $10,000 to relocate to Tulsa for a year. A study found that, for every dollar spent, Tulsa sees $4.31 in economic benefits, including increased local spending, tax revenue, and job creation. Abby is joined by John Pattinson, Strong Towns' community builder, discuss whether this kind of program is a smart way to boost the local economy. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “The Economic Benefits of Paying Workers to Move” by Rthvika Suvarna and Fola Akinnibi, Bloomberg CityLab (May 2025).‍ Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).‍‍ Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

As baby boomers downsize, relocate, or pass away, millions of homes are projected to rejoin the housing market by 2030, potentially exceeding housing demand by 1 million homes. In today's episode, Chuck and Abby discuss how generational shifts affect the housing market, what an excess of supply could mean for cities' financial stability, and how a simple "build, build, build" mindset could cause serious problems down the line. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Forget YIMBY. The housing shortage could disappear on its own.” by Robert Showah, The Washington Post (September 2025).‍ Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).‍‍ Chuck Marohn (Substack) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

For years, investors and speculators shaped Canada's housing market. But now, people who actually live in those homes are beginning to have more influence. Today, Abby is joined by Norm Van Eeden Petersman, Strong Towns' director of membership and a Canadian, to discuss how this shift happened, how it'll affect Canada's housing market, and the implications for the rest of North America. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “End-users, rather than investors, expected to drive Vancouver housing market higher” by Kerry Gold, The Globe and Mail (September 2025).‍ Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).‍ Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn)‍ Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

Several high-profile members of the government have been accused of committing mortgage fraud recently, including Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton and Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook. Today, Chuck and Abby explore how mortgage fraud distorts the housing market, why it happens so frequently — and why no one in the financial system is interested in stopping it. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Ken Paxton Claimed Three Houses as His Primary Residence, Records Show” by Pooja Salhotra, The New York Times (July 2025). “Mortgage-Fraud Accusations Are Trump's New Political Weapon” by Gina Heeb and Brian Schwartz, The Wall Street Journal (August 2025). Chuck Marohn (Substack) Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

Join Abby and guest John Pattison as they dive into the benefits and drawbacks of "sponge cities," cities that incorporate natural features like wetlands into their stormwater management infrastructure. Is this method more resilient in the long term? Do the benefits outweigh the massive cost? How does this relate to the incremental, bottom-up approach? They'll cover all this and more in today's episode of Upzoned. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “‘Sponge City': Copenhagen Adapts to a Wetter Future” by Paul Hockenos, Yale Environment 360 (July 2025). Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

Data centers power everything from cloud computing to artificial intelligence, and they use a massive amount of electricity, sometimes even rivaling major cities. Watchdogs claim that tech companies aren't absorbing the costs of this electricity use, causing rate payers' electricity bills to spike as they're forced to subsidize these data centers. Today, Edward and Abby discuss the far-reaching implications of this kind of land use. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “As electric bills rise, evidence mounts that data centers share blame. States feel pressure to act.” by Marc Levy, AP News (August 2025). Want to bring the conversation to your community? Book Edward as a speaker. Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

Colorado's population is rapidly aging. Soon, one in five people in the state will be be over 65 years old. Limited housing stock means seniors are stuck in too-large homes that they can't afford to maintain. In turn, that means there's fewer large homes for younger families who need them. Today, Abby is joined by Katy Clagett, an incremental developer originally from Colorado who's working to develop infill housing options for seniors. They discuss what Colorado's situation means for communities and how we can reshape housing to be more adaptable to the needs of all age groups. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “As Colorado ages, seniors are colliding with the housing crisis” by Brian Eason, The Colorado Sun (June 2025). Learn how to create a more flexible housing market. Katy Claggett Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

In January 2025, wildfires swept across Los Angeles with record-breaking destruction. To encourage swift rebuilding, Governor Newsom suspended environmental regulations. But six months later, only a fraction of homeowners have even received permits, let alone started the rebuilding process. Chuck is joined by Edward Erfurt, Strong Towns' chief technical advisor, to talk about why, as well as the deeper challenges of rebuilding in fire-prone areas. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Why it's taking LA so long to rebuild” by Umair Irfan, Vox (July 2025). Want to bring the conversation to your community? Book Chuck or Edward as a speaker. Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

In Lincoln County, South Dakota, a growing agriculture company is being charged $50,000 annually for wear and tear on township roads caused by the company's trucks and machinery. Abby and Edward discuss the balancing act between infrastructure costs and municipal budgets, especially in rural areas with few taxpayers. They explore the public process behind this kind of decision and offer suggestions on how it could be improved. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Milk facility to pay $50,000 for road use” by Rae Yost, KELOLAND (July 2025). Want to bring the conversation to your community? Book Edward as a speaker. Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.

Sunbelt cities like Phoenix, Dallas, and Atlanta have long prided themselves on having affordable and abundant housing. However, they're now seeing stagnation in housing construction and rapidly rising costs. Today, Abby is joined by Rachel Leonardo, a trained architect and Strong Towns' video creator, to discuss how rigid single-use zoning has locked cities into expensive fragility. They explore whether these cities can course correct and how they could become more resilient and prosperous in the long-term. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES Here are 6 simple ways to make housing more affordable in your community. “Sprawl made the American Sunbelt affordable. Now it's breaking it.” by Marina Bolotnikova, Vox (July 2025). See Rachel's work: Studio Leonardo (YouTube) Strong Towns (YouTube) Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership, including member-exclusive perks.

Today, Abby is joined by Bernice Radle, a small-scale developer and historic building preservationist from Buffalo, New York. They cover two developing stories: First, a new bill was proposed that would give the Buffalo housing court more power to sell or repair buildings taken from absentee or negligent landlords. Second, the Historic Preservation Fund is currently at risk. Bernice and Abby discuss how these changes could affect small-scale developers and historic preservationists. Bernice also explores how these two fields are closely linked and should work together to save urban spaces. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Proposed bill would give Buffalo housing court greater authority over derelict properties” by Nate Benson, WGRZ (May 2025). “Preservation Under Threat: A Critical Moment for the Historic Preservation Fund” by Preservation Buffalo Niagara, Buffalo Rising (June 2025). See more from Bernice: Strong Towns Neighborhood Evolution Preservation Buffalo Niagara Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.   This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership, including member-exclusive perks.

Residents of Boca Chica, Texas, have voted to turn their community into a new official city called Starbase. This new municipality is tightly controlled by SpaceX leadership and most residents are SpaceX employees, which has raised concerns about the reemergence of company towns. In this Upzoned episode, Abby is joined by our Chief Technical Advisor Edward Erfurt to discuss the Strong Towns perspective on this story. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Elon Musk's company town: SpaceX employees vote to create ‘Starbase'” by Nick Robins-Early, The Guardian (May 2025). Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

As of the 2023-24 academic year, the University of California faces $9.1 billion in deferred maintenance, while California State University faces $8.3 billion. In today's episode, Chuck and Abby explore how this problem arose, how it mirrors the challenges cities are facing, and what it'll take to manage this decline. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Inside a $17 billion maintenance backlog plaguing California's universities” by Victoria Mejicanos, Matthew Reagan and Mercy Sosa, CalMatters (April 2025). Learn more about the Growth Ponzi Scheme and how to evaluate your own city's financial position. Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Chuck Marohn (Substack) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

President Trump has proposed the privatization of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, organizations that back the majority of mortgages in the U.S. and have been under a government conservatorship since the 2008 financial crisis. In this Upzoned episode, Chuck and Abby discuss the proposal and how it would affect the housing market. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “How Trump plans to get government out of the mortgage business” by Paige Sutherland and Meghna Chakrabarti, WBUR On Point (March 2025). Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Chuck Marohn (Substack) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

In this Upzoned episode, Abby is joined by Strong Towns Chief Technical Advisor Edward Erfurt to discuss the emergence of food deserts in the United States. In the 1980s, the U.S. government stopped enforcing price discrimination laws, letting large supermarkets use their size to leverage better prices from suppliers. This led to the closure of many small, independent groceries and helped create today's food deserts. Abby and Edward discuss the shift from grocery stores being neighborhood assets to regional destinations and how that extracts wealth from communities. Then they share bottom-up ways that everyday people can address these food shortages in their communities. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “The Great Grocery Squeeze: How a federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert” by Stacy Mitchell, The Atlantic (December 2024). Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

Co-hosts Abby Newsham and Chuck Marohn discuss the challenges faced by Victoria, Prince Edward Island, a town in Canada that only has 139 full-time residents. In an attempt to attract new residents, the town has adopted its first five-year development plan. Chuck and Abby talk about how very small towns like Victoria show the absurdities of the Suburban Experiment best — and feel its consequences most keenly. They explore what the future could look like for communities like this and emphasize the importance of embracing the things that make a specific town special instead of trying to copy suburban subdivisions. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Population growth called 'critical' for the sustainability of Victoria, P.E.I.” by Sara Fraser, CBC News (February 2025). Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Chuck Marohn (Substack). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

Residents of a neighborhood in Colorado are confronting a $434 million debt incurred by their community's special taxing district, which was set up by developers to finance the neighborhood's infrastructure. A group of neighbors are now organizing to take control of the district's board and try to bring transparency to the financial situation. In today's episode of Upzoned, Abby is joined by Edward Erfurt, Strong Towns' chief technical advisor. They discuss how using special taxing districts to fund developments is a common practice, how it leads to snowballing debt, and how difficult it is for residents to manage this kind of situation. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “The largest neighborhood of this Colorado city is $434M in debt. Neighbors are now seeking board control.” by Olivia Young, CBS News (February 2025). This Thursday, February 27, Strong Towns will release a toolkit to help city officials welcome incremental housing development. Learn more here. Become a member to join the launch livestream with experts Alli Thurmond Quinlan (Incremental Development Alliance) and Eric Kronberg (Kronberg Urbanists + Architects). Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

The U.S. senior housing market is poised to shift from a surplus to a shortage in the next five years, as the oldest baby boomers turn 80 by 2030. In this Upzoned episode, Abby is joined by Norm Van Eeden Petersman, Strong Towns' director of Movement Building. They unpack the implications of this market shift and discuss what building more options for older adults could look like. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Aging Boomers Are About to Rekindle the Senior-Housing Market” by Peter Grant, The Wall Street Journal (February 2025). Read more: “Seniors Have Large Suburban Houses To Sell. Does Anyone Want Them?” (Strong Towns). “The Great Senior Short Sale or Why Policy Inertia Will Short Change Millions of America's Seniors” (Journal of Comparative Urban Law and Policy). Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

In this episode, Abby is joined by Chicago aldermen Matt Martin and Andre Vasquez to discusses the Western Avenue corridor study, one of the most ambitious planning efforts Chicago has seen in decades. It includes widespread rezoning reform, and it also addresses affordable housing, economic vitality and transit efficiency. The aldermen share their approach to rezoning, emphasizing the importance of a community-first approach. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Let's fix Western Avenue and make Chicago stronger” by Aaron Feldman, Chicago Tribune (June 2024). There are 6 easy code reforms that city officials can use to bring more housing to their communities. We will release a toolkit to help you implement these changes in February 2025. Get a sneak peek here and join our mailing list to be notified when this resource is available. Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.

In 2021, Massachusetts signed a law requiring communities that are served by the Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority (MBTA) to legalize multifamily housing development near MBTA transit stations. Recently, a state court ruled that the state has the authority to sue cities and towns that don't comply. In this episode of Upzoned, Abby and Chuck discuss whether that's a good idea, the broader trend of states intervening in city zoning practices, and how the root issue is actually poor transportation investment practices. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES “Court Ruling Paves the Way For State to Sue Towns With Exclusionary Zoning Laws” by Christian MilNeil, StreetsblogMASS (January 2025). “Our Financial System Favors Large-Scale Development…but at What Cost?” with Coby Lefkowitz. Abby Newsham (X/Twitter). Chuck Marohn (Twitter/X). Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.