Podcasts about liz you

Feeling stretched thin as a mom and entrepreneur? Let's talk about burnout and how to beat it! For me, finding that sweet spot between work and family fun is a game-changer. Imagine shooting hoops with your kids or diving into books you all enjoy—it's all about blending joy and quality time.  Next up, we're super excited to have Liz Tenety join us! She's the brilliant co-founder of Motherly and the mastermind behind Founding Women. As a mom of five, Liz knows all about balancing the chaos of a big family with the grind of running a venture-backed startup. She's here to drop some major wisdom on managing your energy, why it's crucial to prioritize your well-being before chasing profits, and how to get creative with childcare and household support. Liz is all about a holistic approach to avoid burnout. She cautions that focusing solely on work and parenting can lead to neglecting friendships and personal wellness. Her advice? Blend work and home life seamlessly, involve the kids in chores, and don't hesitate to get help when needed. We'll also explore how to balance life and business, with Liz sharing tips on building a support team, from hiring a virtual assistant to arranging childcare swaps with other entrepreneur moms. Ready to learn from the best? Let's dive in! In this episode, you will hear: Actionable insights on managing energy and aligning family and business needs. Methods to keep burnout at bay, including investing in well being and child care before turning a profit. Creative ways to blend personal interests with parenting through enjoyable activities. Exploration of energy management techniques and the balance between narrow focus and holistic well being. Hiring resources early and fostering a collaborative family environment to reduce personal burnout. Liz's experience in creating supportive communities for female founders and translating business skills into effective motherhood. Identifying and managing daily parenting tasks and logistical challenges to prevent burnout. Ideas for reimagining work-life balance and parenting to create a sustainable and fulfilling life. Encouragement to build a support network and invest in well being for a successful business and family life.  This episode is brought to you by a LIVE free masterclass How to Craft a Focused Year-End Networking Strategy to Build Profitable Relationships in 30 Days Without Draining Your Mom Energy. Back to school for moms? Join me on September 23, 2024 or September 24, 2024! Add your name to my newsletter HERE: https://fertileideas.com/ - this will do two things: you'll instantly receive my free networking playbook and be the first to know when the doors to my masterclass officially open!  Be the first to hear when the DOORS officially open to this FREE masterclass for mom founders. As when they do, you'll get a workbook upon signing up so you can start to warm up your profitable relationship building skills before you need them and for showing up LIVE you'll get my very own plug-and-play 30-day networking planner! How's that for a gift? More about this LIVE free masterclass: How to Craft a Focused Year-End Networking Strategy to Build Profitable Relationships in 30 Days Without Draining Your Mom Energy. You want to build profitable relationships without draining your energy for family and business. Imagine if family time and business could fuel each other rather than deplete you. Maybe you've been filling your cup instead of depleting it? I faced the same challenge. I learned to balance being a great business owner and mom while building profitable relationships in my 13-year career. I can help you make this a reality. Hi, I'm Melissa Llarena, bestselling author, podcaster, mom of three boys (including twins), and CEO of a coaching business in Austin, TX. I started my business with my firstborn at six months and, later with twins, struggled with distractions. I discovered that while some founders might reach goals faster, I didn't need to sacrifice my vision. I focused on building profitable relationships, a more consistent path to income than ads or social media algorithms. This approach expanded my reach, boosted my message, and increased my credibility. Plus, my method saves time by skipping gatekeepers, eliminating the need for warm intros or happy hours. This is what sets my method apart. I created a repeatable networking strategy for moms using my "Imagination to Impact to Income Method™." This strategy transformed how I manage time and energy and will be the focus of my LIVE masterclass entitled How to Craft a Focused Year-End Networking Strategy to Build Profitable Relationships in 30 Days Without Draining Your Mom Energy. My mission is to help moms creatively build their business while embracing motherhood. Profitable relationships align with both your business and family goals. I'll show you how in the masterclass to close the year strong. Attend LIVE and get a 30-day Profitable Networking Planner™! No more guessing how to connect with the right people. By the end of the class, you'll learn to: - Reimagine your company vision to energize you. - Find a clear relationship-building focus for your business's potential. - Overcome impostor syndrome to become unstoppable. Learn a proven plan to turn contacts into connections, even if you're an introvert. It helped me land GaryVee on my podcast, write books, and secure major sales, including a collaboration with the world's first IVF baby. I'll share this in the masterclass. Ready to add this to your calendar! Sign-up to be the first to know when the doors OPEN for this LIVE free masterclass! https://www.melissallarena.com/masterclass/ Let's turn ON your superpower LIVE! -Melissa Llarena About Liz Tenety Liz Tenety is a dynamic founder, digital entrepreneur, and transformation coach dedicated to empowering ambitious women. As the co-founder of Founding Women, she supports female founders through expert-led small groups and accelerators. Liz previously served as the Chief Digital Officer and co-founder of Motherly, where she played a key role in growing the venture-backed startup to 30 million monthly users and significant revenue. With nearly 20 years in media and startups—including a decade at The Washington Post—Liz now leads Growth Mode, her growth consulting firm, and coaches at Blue Engine Collaborative and Georgetown University. Her passion lies in using design thinking, storytelling, and data to uplift women and mothers in business. Quotes, that can change your perspective:   "Not having friends is actually a recipe for me for burnout, not focusing on pleasure and rest and play." - Liz Tenety "I realized, okay, wait a minute, instead of paying someone to watch my kids so I can clean, I should hire house help with that extra funds that I might have so that I could spend that time with my kids." - Liz Tenety "I don't know how to keep up with the competition if I'm not up front hiring resources before I make one dollar. Any other mom found a better way?." - Melissa Llarena "I feel your pain, and it's not easy to make these numbers work."  - Liz Tenety "No great company is built alone. And in a lot of ways for me, I learn better how to run my family and think about what it means to lead a family by running a company" - Liz Tenety "You might get so much energy from hanging out with your loved ones. And why would you avoid that source of energy? You're a mom, there's finite energy." - Melissa Llarena   SHARE this episode with anyone who's juggling the demands of motherhood and entrepreneurship! Whether you're seeking tips on avoiding burnout, balancing work and family, or building a support network, Liz Tenety's insights are gold. Let's spread the wisdom and help each other thrive—don't miss out! Supporting Resources:   Website:  https://foundingwomen.co  Instagram: @liztenety Subscribe and Review Have you subscribed to my podcast for new moms who are entrepreneurs, founders, and creators?  I'd love for you to subscribe if you haven't yet.   I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast for writer moms.   About Fertile Imagination – www.fertileideas.com You can be a great mom without giving up, shrinking, or hiding your dreams. There's flexibility in how you pursue anything – your role, your lifestyle, and your personal and professional goals. The limitations on your dreams are waiting to be shattered. It's time to see and seize what's beyond your gaze. Let's bridge your childhood daydreams with your grown-up realities. Imagine skipping with your kids along any path – you, surpassing your milestones while your kids are reaching theirs. There's only one superpower versatile enough to stretch your thinking beyond what's been done before: a Fertile Imagination. It's like kryptonite for impostor syndrome and feeling stuck when it's alert!   In Fertile Imagination, you will awaken your sleeping source of creative solutions. If you can wake up a toddler or a groggy middle schooler, then together with the stories in this book – featuring 25 guests from my podcast Unimaginable Wellness, proven tools, and personal anecdotes – we will wake up your former playmate: your imagination!   Advance Praise   “You'll find reality-based strategies for imagining your own imperfect, fulfilling life in this book!” —MARTHA HENNESSEY, former NH State Senator “Melissa invites the reader into a personal and deep journey about topics that are crucially important to uncover what would make a mom (and dad too) truly happy to work on...even after the kids are in bed.” —KEN HONDA, best-selling author of Happy Money   “This book is a great purchase for moms in every stage of life. Melissa is like a great friend, honest and wise and funny, telling you about her life and asking you to reflect on yours.” —MAUREEN TURNER CAREY, librarian in Austin, TX TRANSCRIPT 00:00:00 Liz:  I try to set up opportunities for play with my kids that I enjoy. I don't like board games. I just like, I don't like that. And I don't like terrible cartoon character books, the little books with Paw Patrol. Like aesthetically, like it offends me. So I try to like play a basketball. I love playing basketball with my son. So I'll try to do something with my child that I enjoy and read choose the book that is going to bring me pleasure to read with my kid. 00:00:33 Melissa:  Welcome to the Mom Founder Imagination Hub, your weekly podcast to inspire you to dream bigger. Plan out how you're going to get to that next level in business. Find the energy to keep going and make sure your creative juices are flowing so that this way you get what you really want rather than having to settle. Get ready to discover how mom founders have reimagined entrepreneurship and motherhood. Ever wonder how they do it? Tune in to find out and stretch yourself by also learning from diverse entrepreneurs who might not be moms, but who have lessons you can tailor about how you can disrupt industries and step way outside of your comfort zone. I believe every mom's superpower is her imagination. In this podcast, I'm going to give you the mindset, methods, and tools to unleash yours. Sounds good? Then keep listening.   00:01:25 Melissa:  Welcome, beautiful mom founder. So in today's episode, we're gonna go through burnout. Is there a way to avoid it? Is there a way to keep it at bay through energy management solutions that work for you and your family? Also, we're gonna go through building a business and how that might actually make you a more empowered mom who can design a family life that is almost like run like a business with heart, of course. We're also gonna go through investing in your wellbeing and why you might want to pay for the child care, pay for the VAs before you turn a profit. So the conversation today is something that I personally really needed. Today's guest is none other than the co-founder behind Motherly, current founder of Founding Women, a career community supporting female founders through expert led small groups and accelerators. The name of today's guest is Liz Tenety. 00:02:21 Melissa:  I am thrilled to have her perspective. She's a mom of five and she knows what it takes in order to run a venture backed startup. She also knows what it takes in terms of the requirements that having a big family have on our energy levels and sources. So enjoy the conversation. Definitely. Let me know what you think in terms of the possibilities for you to almost piece together your own childcare solutions, piece together your own resources so that you can have that opportunity to invest in your wellbeing upfront, so that you can actually launch your business, build your business, scale your business, and make whatever vision you have for your business turn into a reality that you are better off for, you and your family. That's what it's about here. So enjoy the conversation. 00:03:17 Melissa:  This episode is brought to you by a masterclass I want to formally and cordially invite you to on September 23rd. We're gonna go through a focused 30 day networking strategy that is gonna help you end the year strong. It is about having a company vision that energizes you. It is about, and we're gonna go through how to focus, where to apply your finite focus as a mom, and also how to actually navigate feeling like an imposter at times so that you get billed and really enhance the profitable relationships that are going to take your business to the next level. This is happening on September 23rd. I know, I know, right now we are just getting our kids back to school and that might not be on your top of mind list, but I want to just give you some of the details that we're going to run through. And I want to invite you to sign up today for my newsletter so that you're the very first to hear of when I opened the doors for this masterclass that will be live for one hour on September 23rd, which is a Monday. So just go to fertileideas.com. Go ahead and grab my free networking playbook while you're at it, and that will instantly put you on the list. So on September 23rd, here's what you're in for.  00:04:45 Melissa:  You are going to 100% have a really good idea on how to make your company vision, which a lot of you might call your origin story or that description on your website that describes what you do, who you are and why, and have it work for you. Have it energize you, have it feel more aligned and have it almost like contribute to that pep in your step. The second thing we're going to do is we're going to narrow your focus. And here's what I mean by that. It is not about, you know, not, it's not about being in monk mode. It's not about going to a retreat in some cottage in Canada. No, it is about understanding what you need to accomplish to make the end of this year, 2024, align with what you had originally intended this year to look like in terms of your revenue, in terms of your business, in terms of whatever creative endeavor you have out there. And the third point, which I mentioned a little earlier is, you know, on a path to building a business, there are moments where you might start second guessing yourself. You might encounter self doubt that mental chatter that I don't know if I'm ready might pop up. I want you to have a proactive plan this year so that the end of the year, you don't have regrets. I wish I would have, I wish I would have pressed send. I wish I would have published my book. I wish I would have, you know, launched my podcast, I wish I would have asked for, you know, bigger donation dollars for my nonprofit. I don't want you to have that on your heart.  00:06:11 Melissa:  I want you to be totally prepared and ready for a strong end to 2024. So quick, quick, quick to do go to fertileideas.com. That'll be in the show notes and sign up. Get the playbook while you're at it. I have a networking playbook that also helps you start to build profitable relationships and it is so useful whether you are an introvert or an extrovert or somewhere in between There's such a thing as an ambivert. So go ahead to fertile ideas comm get the playbook. Here's the thing I'm gonna be pricing it about $14.99 so you could totally wait and get it later, but today right now it is free for mom founders to go to fertileideas.com, that is how you get in my email newsletter and that is also how you have first persons access to the details around this masterclass that will be live will be on September 23rd and will be all for mom founders who want to end the year strong.  00:07:09 Melissa:  So go ahead right now. I'll give you a second hit pause and sign up for the playbook. So you get on the newsletter and you're the first to know about this masterclass is going to change the way you end 2024. I look forward to seeing you there and enjoy the conversation with Liz Tennedy. I'm so excited that she joined me on The Mom Founder Imagination Hub. So Liz, I am so excited to have you here on the mom found her imagination hub. I love that you're putting on chapstick. That is so mom of you in the morning. How are you?  00:07:41 Liz:  I'm great. I slept well last night and kids are healthy. The babysitter's here. We're nearing the end of summer break. So I'm feeling hopeful about the future, even the next couple of weeks. 00:07:56 Melissa:  Yeah, I think they call it summer break, but I feel like we end up kind of breaking, if we don't have everything like structured out and our resources in place. And so I get it. I get it. But here's here's something that I would love to speak with you about in great depth, right? For as long as we have the time. Burnout. Let's let's like dive deeply into burnout. I mean, in terms of your experiences and now with what you're doing with Founding Women, I know that it's top of mind. I know that it's part of, you know, wellness as a solution, but here's kind of my thought on burnout and I wanna hear what you think. So I feel like having a narrow focus is one way to kind of proactively address burnout or not get to that place. But then I also think, so I have lots of thoughts, but I'll just share my second and I'll stop there. I also think that we have different points at which we reach burnout. So I might reach burnout after X hours of work sitting down at my computer, whereas someone else might have a different burnout point. So here's the question I asked myself legit. How can I work really hard and long right before my burnout point so I don't get to that place where it's hard to get back? 00:09:22 Liz:  I mean, it's such a huge, huge topic. I think something I always personally love to do is to zoom way out. And by that, I don't just mean for my own life. I actually mean like on the horizon of time and human history, how are humans doing work and life in other cultures, in other times, like a hundred years ago, 10,000 years ago? Because my own like little life hypothesis is that we're living in unbelievably unprecedented times, particularly for mothers in the West who, you know, live these nuclear family lives. They have less sort of social support than ever, right? And we also have in its place no structural support, no political support, no corporate culture support for motherhood to kind of put my own struggles and the struggles of other parents, but especially moms that I encounter like in this context of, sure, by a lot of measures, we have things better than in human history. 00:10:36 Liz:  But if you look at other groups of measures like social support, belonging, meaning, I think we're actually really struggling. And so just knowing that helps me not feel so alone and feel like the struggle is real, like it's not just all up in my head. So that helps. And I'm always zooming out for my own problems and the daily struggles, because it really helps to put things in perspective for me. You mentioned narrow focus, which I find really interesting. And I don't know that I have like one answer. And frankly, I think any productivity guru who's giving you one answer or one framework is lying to you in different seasons of life. And I think that's particularly true for women and those who bear children that there's literally seasons that happen in your body and we need to respect them, but there's also seasons throughout the year. Capitalism acts like everything is always upward on the trajectory and it's not. We do need those seasons of rest and recovery that are just natural to being a human, especially being a woman, especially being a mother. So pushing back on that idea that it's always, you know, upwards. Anyway, get back to narrow focus. When I heard you talk about narrow focus, it reminded me of Greg McEwen's book, Essentialism, which I read, let's see, six years ago, and I found it so helpful, and I found it like such a relief.  00:12:10 Liz:  I was running my startup at the time or venture back startup, we were in total growth mode. I mean, it was so intense every single day. I read it on vacation that I took. And one of the one of the anecdotes in that book is about a large family. I think I think it was a stay at home mom and like a traditional working, you know, in the office dad. I remember that they had six kids. And the story was that that couple had decided that for that season of life, they did not need to focus on their friendships, their social lives, okay? And they went really narrow. It's about raising the kids and running this household. Again, I get that. And that was so logical. So I kind of bought it into this idea of narrow focus, right? The only thing I told myself at that time that I had capacity for, the only things were taking care of my kids and running my startup. And I bought in on that. And what happened was I burned out. And I realized why.  00:13:12 Liz:  And actually, Greg McEwen has written a follow-up book called Effortless, like critiquing his own framework here because then I realized, you know, in the pandemic and in the years that followed, as I approached 40, not having friends is actually a recipe for me, for burnout, not focusing on pleasure and rest and play. That I got so narrow that I didn't even allow myself to do things that were actually holistically good for me as a human being. So, and yeah, I'm attracted to the idea of like going narrow and not and letting certain things fall by the wayside. I do think depending on your season of life though, really looking holistically at like, what do I, what do I actually need to be refueled for this journey?   00:14:03 Liz: And kind of doing that 360 view of it is really critical. And I think for me, being too narrow and saying, oh, I don't have time for friends. I don't have time to work out. I don't have time for wellness. I'll prioritize that in a different season. That's actually ironically the thing that led me to burnout and then decide like, okay, I need a hard break with what, you know, the life that I've been living in a big reset, which is what I did about three years ago. 00:14:29 Melissa: Yeah. And it's interesting because when I talk about focus, what I mean is focusing on what gives you energy. And it doesn't necessarily mean taking everything off your plate. You might actually want to add things to your plate that energize you, like in your case, friendships, right? Or playing with your child, you know, playing pretend and things like that. That magical moment and experience can make you more excited when you're out there marketing, you know, your solution. And so I totally get what you're saying. I think our focus for what helps us avoid burnout. 00:15:11 Melissa: It's different. It's different from me. It's different for you, you know, like maybe, maybe I have social anxiety. I know some clients of mine, they suffer with that. And so the thought of them like going out in the world and such is draining on them, you know, but like virtual coffee chats as an example, might be really uplifting and helpful. So I think your point is perfect. Absolutely perfect. So let me ask you this question, because I feel like it's like the elephant in the room, right? For a lot of moms that found a business. So you mentioned two big, big, big things that were going on in terms of mothering your children, of which you have five, right? You have five. And running a business. So those two things, like I feel like the other side of it is, okay, how do you prevent burnout? I think we also have to be honest about the things in our lives that contribute to burnout that are not just you know, pitching clients or getting investors, but also untangling fights between siblings or schlepping someone from point A to point B and you know, there being traffic. And I don't have a spreadsheet that says, here are all the things that I think about that drain me from a family perspective, but I do have a list of to-dos from a business perspective.  00:16:34 Melissa: So looking at both sides, would you say that you have found in talking to founding women and learning about moms, through motherly and other means, have you found that maybe we're not being honest enough with the things that are really on our list? There are some invisible things that are not on our list that drain us. 00:16:54 Liz:  I love that. Yeah, that makes so much sense. I love your framework around energy management and I think it's sort of surging as a concept and people are growing in their awareness of this idea of focusing on what you have energy for and the sources of energy drain so that you can be in that zone of genius more frequently. And also, you know, you mentioned playing with your kids. I got some great advice a decade ago from a friend and I've tried to practice it, which is that I try to set up opportunities for play for kids that I enjoy. I don't like board games. I just like, I don't like that.  00:17:36 Liz: And I don't like terrible cartoon character books, you know, the little books with like Paw Patrol, like aesthetically, like it offends me, you know? So I try to like play a basketball. I love playing basketball with my son. So I'll try to do something with my child that I enjoy and read, choose the book that is going to bring me pleasure to read with my kid.  00:18:00 Liz: So even in parenting, looking, taking inventory of how do I use that, even in the car. I want to put music on that I'm going to enjoy, that I'm going to get energy from. And, you know, they're kind of whining in the background because, like, they don't like my weird music. Like, I'm fine with that. I, you know, I am the driver. I am the parent. I'm going to decide that, you know, we're listening to music that I enjoy. You know, you also are reminding me of. Something that I talk to my husband about all the time, which is that we're trying to build a life for ourselves and an integrated work and life work business family that we haven't quite seen modeled in our you know, micro communities.  00:18:44 Liz: You know, we've seen it kind of out there vaguely with like influencers who kind of live that more integrated family lifestyle. And by that I mean like family businesses or having a unique work family blend or being digital nomads and that kind of thing, which we're not, but I find that general concept interesting. And that is this, that if we want to live a little bit more intentionally, a little bit more unconventionally, we are going to have to find solutions for our family that we haven't seen modeled. And so something I love about your work is just your appreciation for creative genius and outside of the box solutions. 00:19:30 Liz:  But to get very specific, I realized a few years ago that I was hiring babysitters at nights or on the weekends so that I could catch up on housework or paperwork, you know, all the like logistics. So I realized, okay, wait a minute, instead of paying someone to watch my kids so I can clean, I should hire house help with that extra money. funds that I might have so that I could spend that time with my kids. And similarly, I recently hired a VA, a virtual assistant, right? So it's 600 bucks a month. I don't pay my bills anymore. They get paid, but my VA pays the bills, plans activities, buys tickets and airfare for trips.  00:20:18 Liz: Anything that's like weighing on me, even something this week I asked her to do was make sure the kids were signed up for the right bus for their school, all of that long, long, long, long list. I think of it like building scaffolding around our family where there's that long family list and I'm able to get support in things that aren't bringing me energy and that are taking away from my capacity to be focused on my kids at that time or on my work. The last part of where we are as a family with this I have to give my husband a lot of credit. We're working really hard in this season of life to get our kids much more actively involved in like solving the problems or the work of the family.  00:21:05 Liz: So having a heavier chore list for them, having them make sure they're doing their own laundry, having very clear assignments. In fact, last night my daughter was working on the meal plan and adding the ingredients to our grocery card on my phone. And so we think of it like a team. And when we think of our family as a team and as your kids get older, I'm finding it helpful and instructive and good for them to be more involved in making this team like function as a group. So those are some of the creative ways that I found to over time make this all work in a way that decreases my personal burnout.  00:21:49 Melissa: That makes sense, a lot of sense. I mean, I've definitely had someone that was talking about fair play and just, you know, making sure that everybody picks up different responsibilities and the mom, for the most part, doesn't feel so like, you know, out of control. So I totally hear what you're saying. I have to ask this question. It's something that is really pressing on my mind because a lot of the clients that I've supported. 00:22:14 Melissa: It's almost like they wait until a certain magic number from a revenue perspective or a certain magic age of their kids to start hiring any resources. Yeah. Right. So I heard and this could be totally fictional, but I heard one mom say, oh, I had a coach that said, you know, before, like, make $100,000 in your business and then hire a VA, for example. And so she split it in half. She said, how about $50,000 and then I hire a VA. Here's the chicken and egg question. It's like, as a mom, to be very brutally honest, I don't know how to keep up with the competition if I'm not upfront hiring resources before I make $1. Like help me untangle this. 00:23:11 Liz: I couldn't agree more and I don't presume to speak for other people's budgets and you know people have a wide variety of needs and things that they're paying for. I will say that you know as we've become parents, we were 27 when we became parents, we're about to turn 40 this year. So we make significantly more money today than we did you know when we were 27 and we had our first child and the vast majority of that income, the extra income that we made has been reinvested in quality childcare that makes our lives easier as parents in some housekeeping support. We have less now than we've had in the past because our kids are more capable.  00:23:53 Liz: But when I was working at the start or running my startup full-time, you know,  I was not doing any housework. That was like a weekly job and or someone was coming in to do the laundry. We have looked at like school budgets, right? Like our kids haven't necessarily gone to the preschool that we really wanted them to go to because literally my husband showed me if you choose this preschool, we choose this preschool, like we can't have housekeeping support. So we chose like the more affordable option so that we could put that money back into having a housekeeper and help us with the laundry and the maintenance of our home.  00:24:34 Liz: So, and we don't take many vacations, if any, will go travel to visit our families. We've even started driving 10 hour trips, 12 hour trips to go visit family to cut down on the cost of our vacations because I truly believe that early investment in my wellbeing is the thing that's gonna allow me to build my next business and kind of align my professional life with the integrated family life that I really want. 00:25:03 Liz: That being said, like it's so, so hard out there for working moms. We lack affordable childcare. We lack maternity leave policies. So I have nothing but empathy and I want people to know that if they are just truly looking at their budgets and saying like, I can't make this work, it's not your fault. You know, we, we have to pay, is it in some cities, you know, twice the cost of housing for our childcare. And there's no other country on earth that asks this of families. 00:25:34 Liz: So, you know, I feel your pain and it's not easy to make these numbers work. That being said, reinvesting yourself is absolutely the best thing that you can do and, you know, do it flexibly. I've had certain VA services that didn't work out and I no longer work with them. The one that I'm using now is phenomenal and I'm recommending them to others. But there's a book called Design Your Life, which is out of the Stanford D school and this whole idea of using prototypes, right? Lightweight prototypes to find solutions is one that I think my husband and I have tried and applied. And we keep trying different solutions to make this work in our various stages of life.  00:26:15 Melissa: Yeah. I mean, I, it's so interesting because I think so much great thinking comes out of these world-class institutions, right? I know you're at Georgetown and for me, I have relationships with Tuck but what I will say the one really big missing piece of the puzzle is okay. So that's nice if you wanna work in a big corporate environment, go up the ranks, et cetera, or have a startup, I'm thinking about Stanford, right? With its entrepreneurial leanings. But then what happens when you've had no sleep? Or what happens when you have one child and then you have five, you know, there's all these changes that are not just logical spreadsheet solutions, but they're emotional conversations that a lot of founding moms have in our heads that take up our finite energy.  00:27:04 Melissa: Okay, so here's something else that I was super curious to hear your thoughts on. So asking for help and just, you know, resources. I was having this like conversation with a mom, you know, over me with the margarita, her with the tea, and she said, you know, I've met all these like moms that have these fabulous businesses and they have legions of support, legions. And that's not what I heard you say right now. I heard that it's quite the adjustable team building setup. Say more on maybe the first step. Like how can somebody just incrementally build a team so that they don't have to like go all out and think, oh, it's all or nothing. But you know, there's this one resource and second and third.  00:27:51 Liz: So I guess over the decade of that, I've been a mom and an entrepreneur, I've learned how to think really creatively about time. And you know, all like working moms know that all of a sudden we can get a whole day's worth of work done in just a few hours. And that kind of may have seemed impossible before motherhood, but we just get this incredible focus. So I have been there. I mean, when I was a first, when I was a new working mom, I could not afford full time childcare. So I had four hours in the morning, I had lunch with my son, and then I worked as hard as I could during his two hour nap, right. So I kind of got to seven hours of work, working that way, just working around nap time. 00:28:36 Liz: I also have joined gyms where there's two hours of childcare and a little cafe that you can sit in. And so for like 200 bucks a month, you get two hours of childcare a day, whether or not you work out, which is a pretty great deal. You know, YMCAs have free childcare and are really affordable in a lot of communities. So I would think, you know, I would not bat an eye at doing that. I've also heard of entrepreneur moms setting up childcare swaps with other entrepreneurs. So one mom takes the kids one day, another mom, the next.  00:29:13 Liz: I also just, you know, encourage people to think about what they really need help with. Cause sometimes I think, do I really need more childcare and to spend a thousand dollars next week on full-time childcare or do I need to assign this project? To my VA or hire someone on Upwork to get this job done, right? I also think looking at the weekends, which I can often get taken over by kid activities, but my husband and I are working hard now to make sure that we each have designated time on the weekends to ourselves so that we can recover a little bit from the week and be able to be more intentional with, with our kids. So I guess not that I have an easy answer, but trying to think really creatively about your team, your time, where to find really dedicated pockets of time.  00:30:06 Liz: Lastly, I work from home. I've worked full-time from home for 12 years since becoming a mom. But this afternoon, I'm going to a cafe because talk about the space-time continuum. I can somehow be so much more creative and productive and I can put my headphones on and get a latte and sit down and crank workout in a cafe environment. Like that energy is really good for me creatively. And so again, it's like, it is about energy, it is about time, it is about money and all those things kind of intersect and just encouraging people to use their creativity.  00:30:41 Liz: Also, ChatGPT is blowing my mind every single day. And so when I have like thorny questions of how do I solve this weird problem that I've never even talked to someone about? ChatGPT is surprising me with what it's able to suggest. So even AI tools and things like that are able to kind of introduce serendipity into our lives when we realize that, you know, no great company is built alone. And in a lot of ways for me, I learned better how to run my family and think about what it means to lead a family by running a company and seeing no one can, I can't scale a startup by myself. I need talent to be in their zone of genius and we need to work together on a shared mission. And that over time is how I've tried to operate our family more and more intentionally, learning from running my company.  00:31:32 Melissa: I love that. That's the opposite direction or the other direction that Zibby Owens suggested. So Zibby Owens was on Mom Founders Imagination Hub. And she was saying how being a stay at home mom has helped her build out her business and the Zibby verse. Right. So that's like one direction. And then now you are sharing how it helps in the opposite direction too. Right. So founding the business, building the business, being a mom. And I feel like I'm kind of in between because I literally launched my business with my firstborn on my chest. Like I went to that first sales meeting with my baby in my Ergo baby. And he had a diaper blowout and I closed the sale. But Manhattan is all the better for that experience.  00:32:25 Melissa: [unclear] I love this. I love this. And you know what? You have a fertile imagination to say the least. And I think that is, it's huge. It's one worthy that anyone listening should totally check you out. Totally check out Founding Women, go to the website. And just use that expansive thinking to figure out the best solution for yourself, because your energy needs might be different than Liz's energy needs and my own. And so we need to each do our due diligence to see what works best for us and our family. So thank you so much, Liz. And so I appreciate you so much, Liz, for this conversation. And I would love to just hear more about where listeners can... follow you and learn more about what you're building for us.  00:33:15 Liz: Sure, well, thank you for that. My husband went to Stanford Business School and I did not attend but I did start motherly while he was in business school. And I'm on a list serve with all these women who are moms coming out of Stanford GSB, right? So high powered business women and they're about seven years post MBA right now, seven to ten years post MBA. And all of these high powered women are wrestling with this exact thing. So it's just really interesting to have like a sneak peek into that.  00:33:44 Liz: I am building a new support community for female founders. It is the community that I did not have. I think, you know, there's awesome career communities out there for ambitious women. Chief is, you know, the big famous one among them. But in my experience, founders, entrepreneurs are... much more motivated by this idea of freedom, of building an asset, of controlling your schedule. And the challenges that we face are quite different as female founders trying to build in that way. So people can go to foundingwomen.co. You can also look me up on LinkedIn, where I share more information about our community and also just supportive resources for female founders. So my name is Liz Tenety, T-E-N-E-T-Y. I'm hoping eventually to launch my own personal Instagram.  00:34:34 Liz: But I'm also the co-founder of Motherly. So if you are a mom and kind of in the midst of intense, you know, motherhood seasons, we provide expert support and resources on Instagram and our website, and you can find us at @mother.ly.  00:34:49 Melissa: Here are the three things that you will want to really think through pertaining to how to make your life better, how to feel more energized, more enthusiastic about what's ahead. Point number one, investing in your wellbeing before you turn a profit, understanding that everyone's budget is going to be different, and also understanding that you might feel uncertain in terms of what is coming up in the markets, et cetera. It is still a choice that you can make if you already are using some dollars for other sort of components of your childcare experience, right?  00:35:24 Melissa: So what I loved about Liz was that she didn't necessarily come up with some extra magic money. She instead with her husband made a decision. Either the kids go to childcare or go to a preschool that is higher priced, or we figure out a more affordable solution for their childcare or for their preschool and use the remainder or what's leftover or the extra for whatever it might be, cleaning the house. And so that is very inventive in the sense that it's not so much like asking for more, but doing different with the dollars that you intended to spend anyways. 00:36:03 Melissa: Second point, and again, this is before turning a profit if that is available to you. It is an investment. It's a different way of seeing things. The second point that I think is really worth thinking through for yourself is that burnout is not necessarily about being in monk mode, going to a retreat and being secluded from family and friends. You might get so much energy from hanging out with your loved ones. And why would you avoid that source of energy? You're a mom, there's finite energy. And if that is important to you, it is important for you to include that in terms of your, you know, avoid burnout plan.  00:36:43 Melissa: Here's the third point in terms of building a business. Zibby Owens actually in another podcast, which I will link in the show notes. She said that she learned how to build her business and be a team leader from being a stay at home mom. Here, Liz provides the opposite. She shares how building her business, so co-founding Motherly and now founding Women, is helping her really navigate motherhood and build a lifestyle and family life experience that is quote unquote sustainable and I don't know, maybe scalable if that's the right word in that instance. Either way, I would encourage you to really reimagine how you approach your life experience and how you intend to build up or scale your business given this conversation with Liz. 00:37:34 Melissa: I think there was a lot here that can be shared with other moms. I think anyone that is starting or thinking about launching a business needs to hear this conversation. So go ahead and share this episode with them today. You could share it either on iTunes or right here. Be sure that if you do share it on YouTube, which I would love, be sure that you share it with them and you just give them a heads up that they're about to change their perspective on whether or not it's possible to avoid burnout with few or limited resources. I think this conversation offered enough food for thought.  00:38:12 Melissa: So thank you so much. And until next Tuesday, did you subscribe? Did you actually hit the notification bell on YouTube? And if you're listening on iTunes or anywhere else this podcast is heard, did you hit follow? You just have the tiny little things that make a really big difference and encourage me to continue to pump content out like this for other moms. Moms who we have to use our imagination in order to carve a path that we may have never seen laid out for us before. Thank you so much.  

Today Dave Schramm and Liz Hale explore the profound insights of doctors John and Julie Gottman's latest book, "The Seven Day Love Prescription". They delve into practical advice taken from extensive research on thousands of couples, focusing on strengthening relationships through simple actions and deeper understanding. They discuss the significance of turning towards your partner, the power of touch, the importance of asking open-ended questions, and the brain's tendency to focus on negativity. This episode provides valuable tips for fostering a deeper connection and revitalizing your marriage by incorporating daily habits that enhance love and affection. Insights: Dave: Slowing down and understanding your partner’s world takes humility. I love the word compassion, as we've talked about humility. And let me add gratitude; expressions of appreciation for the little things of being thoughtful. Kindness and gratitude is two sides of the same coin. When someone is kind, hopefully the other person is grateful. And they recognize that and understand each other's worlds. It’s hard to settle on one thing, but kindness could change a marriage. Slow down and be a little more kind, little more gentle, a little more thoughtful. Liz: You know, what I have loved is how we've talked about how healthy "we" consists of healthy "me" and I'm really the only person in the relationship that can really guarantee how I show up right? I am only in control of me. So I think when I show up paramount with kindness, I think that is the key. Visit our site for FREE relationship resources and regular giveaways: StrongerMarriage.orgpodcast.strongermarriage.orgFacebook: StrongerMarriage.orgInstagram: @strongermarriagelife Dr. Dave Schramm: https://drdaveschramm.com https://drdavespeaks.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DrDaveUSU Facebook Marriage Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/770019130329579 Facebook Parenting Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/542067440314642 Dr. Liz Hale: http://www.drlizhale.com/

Community becomes more important than ideology when you feel completely alone.  We're joined by former skinhead turned feminist activist, Graham Finochio, to talk about the radicalization of young, isolated men, how the prison system fails men and how being called in to accountability and community can create radical acceptance and change. Orphaned at 14, Graham shares stories of his upbringing, his lack of support and community, his radicalization during homlessness and the program, Success Stories, that challenged his ideologies and changed his heart during his final days in prison.  New episodes every Monday

Can crying really help solve prodromal labor? Is it possible that an emotional release can suddenly turn manageable contractions into full-blown pushing? YES! Listen to our friend, Liz, share her incredible surprise HBAC story that will reinforce your confidence in the power of a woman’s ability to birth. Liz was prepared to birth at the hospital without her husband due to COVID restrictions, but her baby had other plans. She says, “I got to have my baby in this completely natural way that I didn’t even realize how much I needed. I went from having a birth where I had literally zero control, zero-knowledge, and everyone else telling me what to do, and then a birth where I caught my own baby, suction bulbed him, and walked out carrying him while he was still attached to me. It’s so incredibly empowering.” We also discuss specific ways to find fears within yourself and how to release them. There truly is physical power in just letting go. Additional links How to VBAC: The Ultimate Preparation Course for Parents ( https://www.thevbaclink.com/product/how-to-vbac/ ) The VBAC Link Blog: How to Turn Prodromal Labor into Active Labor ( https://www.thevbaclink.com/how-to-turn-prodormal-labor-into-active-labor/ ) VBAC Without Fear: Five Minute Fear Release Video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9-WIkEls5U ) Natural Hospital Birth: The Best of Both Worlds by Cynthia Gabriel ( https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Hospital-Birth-Best-Worlds/dp/1558328815 ) Episode sponsor This episode is sponsored by our signature course, How to VBAC: The Ultimate Preparation Course for Parents ( https://www.thevbaclink.com/product/how-to-vbac/ ) , that you can find at thevbaclink.com. It is the most comprehensive VBAC preparation course in the world, perfectly packaged in an online, self-paced, video course. Together, Meagan and Julie have helped over 800 parents get the birth that they wanted and they are ready to help you too. Head on over to thevbaclink.com ( http://thevbaclink.com/ ) to find out more and sign up today. Full transcript Note: All transcripts are edited to eliminate false starts and filler words. Julie: Happy Wednesday, women of strength. We are really excited for our story today, as usual. I don’t think we’re ever not excited about anything, really. But today we have a really cool story. We just love our friend, Liz. Her story is really, really exciting because it was an unplanned, unassisted home birth after Cesarean and I’m dying to hear all of the details of this story. Liz is from Houston, Texas and she is the mother of two boys. Her youngest boy’s name is the same as my oldest boy’s name. I thought that was really, really cool. They have a dog and she’s a Montessori teacher. What is that like right now? Liz: Oh my god, to add more stress to the situation, right? We are still doing it virtually right now and it’s pretty wild because, in Montessori, you’re teaching three different levels. Not only are you teaching three different levels, but then every individual child has their own path that they’re on. And trying to do that via Zoom-- it keeps you on your toes. But thank God I’ve been doing it for a while. It’s a good challenge. It’s keeping me busy. Review of the week Julie: Oh my goodness. Well, we can’t wait to hear your story, but before we get into it, I am going to read the review of the week. The review of the week this time is from Jill Dash. It’s actually a Google review. If you didn’t know, you can find us on Google ( https://www.google.com/search?aqs=chrome.0.69i59j46i39i175i199j0i20i263j46i67j0l3j0i10.1341j0j15&ie=UTF-8&oq=the+vbac+link&q=the+vbac+link&sourceid=chrome ). Just search for The VBAC Link and our business will pop up on the right side. You can click there and leave a review for us if you do not have Apple Podcasts ( https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-vbac-link/id1394742573 ). Or if you do, that would be awesome too. Jill Dash on Google says, “I started listening to the VBAC Link about four weeks before my due date, during the COVID-19 pandemic. Knowing I couldn't have a doula at my birth or attend in-person birth classes, I was desperate for as much knowledge as I could gain from the internet. I listened to The VBAC Link on my nightly walks as I prepared for my own birth and was so inspired, encouraged, and comforted by hearing everyone's stories. I love how supportive Julie and Meagan are of their guests and of everyone's stories. There is so much to learn from this podcast! Thank you for existing.” Oh, my gosh. Jill Dash, thank YOU for existing. Thank you so much for writing this Google review. I know we probably say it all the time, but when we get reviews— Monday, we get our podcast reviews, all of them in our inbox. Whenever you leave a review on Google, it pops up at that time you leave it in our notifications. It really does bring a smile to our faces. I know it has turned my day around more than once for sure. It makes the harder things about running a business like this a little bit more bearable when we get those really awesome reviews. So thanks again Jill Dash and everyone else who has left a review. If you haven’t already, go ahead to Apple Podcasts, Google or even head over on Facebook and leave us a rating. Let us know how The VBAC Link is helping you on your birth journey or as a birth worker. Episode sponsor Julie: Do you want a VBAC but don’t know where to start? It’s easy to feel like we need to figure it all out on our own. That’s what we used to do and it was the loneliest and most ineffective thing we have ever done. That’s why Meagan and I created our signature course, How to VBAC: The Ultimate Preparation Course for Parents, that you can find at thevbaclink.com ( http://thevbaclink.com/ ). It is the most comprehensive VBAC preparation course in the world, perfectly packaged in an online, self-paced, video course. Together, Meagan and I have helped over 800 parents get the birth that they wanted and we are ready to help you too. Head on over to thevbaclink.com ( http://thevbaclink.com/ ) to find out more and sign up today. That’s thevbaclink.com ( http://thevbaclink.com/ ). See you there. Liz’s story Julie: Alright. Well, you guys. I don’t even know enough details about this story to even start telling the story for her. I guess that’s a good thing, but I’m going to turn it over to Liz to start sharing her story with us. I am going to be sitting on the edge of my seat waiting to hear the details of this really exciting story. So go ahead and take it away. Liz: Cool. I think it’s important to tell the highlights of the birth of my first son first. My older son is almost exactly two years older than my son who was just born. They’re two years and six days apart. With my older son, first, off he was “late”, which, as someone who’s been through pregnancy and birth twice now understanding that that’s no big deal, but when you’re in your first pregnancy, it can seem like the longest amount of time ever. I had an OB who seemed to be pretty pro-natural birth and then throughout the time of my pregnancy, it became more clear that she was not as supportive of that and letting things run its natural course as I was hoping. I had found a doula who I think was really not much of a doula. She was a wonderful massage therapist but when it came to knowing me, having a relationship with me, giving me advice on anything, I didn’t really have that. Meagan: This sounds like Julie‘s first doula. Liz: Yeah? Julie: My husband calls her the most expensive foot rub I’ve ever had because she rubbed my feet for an hour in labor. I mean, she was great. She’s a nice person. She’s not a doula anymore. I think I was her last birth so she might have been like, “I’m out of here,” after that. Liz: It’s funny that you say that. I feel like this was kind of the end of the run as well. I’ll get more into it as I talk about my experience with my second son, but it’s one of those things that if you don’t have frame of reference, you’re like, “Well, I guess this is how it works,” if you don’t have a lot of other people that you can go and talk to. She had a lot of boundaries around being a doula in that I was only to see her one time and if my labor went over a certain amount of time then that would cost exponentially more. There was a lot of stress going on. Oh gosh, this was the other thing. It would cost more for her to come to my house first and labor with me at home and then go to the hospital with me as well, which was a pretty weird thing considering the fact that we lived down the street from each other. Meagan: I was going to say, was she in another super far away city? What? Liz: No. We’re literally in the same neighborhood and we live in the medical district. With that all being said, I didn’t have a lot of guidance. With my first son, I experienced a lot of— what I came to have found out as prodromal labor. Laboring at night, going through the whole process of contractions that feel very legitimate and have patterns, but then waking up in the morning and your body just going, “Well, it’s time to go back to work, right?” and slowing down again. That went on for a while until I went into what seemed like full-on labor. I’m texting my doula. She texted me back. We are talking about it and then get to the “five minutes for an hour” situation. I go to the hospital and I am not even near ready to be even admitted. I don’t even think I was 2 centimeters. They sent me back home and they said, “Don’t even come until you are two minutes apart because you’re so close. You’re going to have lots of time.” That was really good advice. Hours went by. They got closer. I’ll get into it more when I’m talking about my second birth, but these were totally manageable contractions. Were they contractions? Sure. Was I needing to moan through them or bend over? Not even close. I think that that’s notable. Meagan: Did your doula give you any advice? Like, “Yeah, I think it’s time to go,” or “Actually, I think it would be beneficial to do this, this, and this and then reassess,” or anything like that? Liz: No. She was very hard to get a hold of and you’ll understand why in a minute. It was just like, “Okay, we’ll go if you want to.” I go back and I am barely a 3 when they admit me. Once I get admitted, I text her and I’m like, “Hey I’m here. Ready for you when you’re ready to come.” And then she decides that now is the time to tell me that she’s in another birth. Meagan: Okay, so not being totally honest along the way. Liz: Right. With anyone, I try to consider that they’re coming from a good place, so she was probably trying to not upset me. Meagan: Yeah, I could see that. But at the same time, being honest is good. Liz: 100%. So the deal was, if this were to happen because this happens all the time as y’all know as people who work in the birth industry, you’d have backups, right? But instead of a backup doula, she sent one of her massage therapists which was awesome and felt nice, but this person didn’t have a lot of experience when it came to birth stuff. I am actually backing up and remembering that I went into labor the day that they were going to induce me because I was “late”. We get to the hospital. Of course, all the checking in, everything, labor stalls like it totally does all the time. This is when I found out that my OB was really not on board because she goes, “We were already going to induce you today, so we might as well just start some Pitocin.” Julie: What?! Liz: “We might as well start some Pitocin because you’re not in full labor.” She then decides to tell me that she has to leave soon-- you guys are going to love this-- because she had to get her windshield of her car repaired. Julie: Okay. Do you know what? I guess nothing because I am at a loss for words. I thought I had words, but I just don’t have words. That makes my skin crawl. It just makes all doulas look bad. Liz: No, this is the OB, not the doula. Julie: Oh shoot, okay. Meagan: It’s just unique. This is the frustrating thing. Obviously, doulas and providers are all different, but this just happened the other day with a client of mine. I was going to her birth. She called her provider. Her provider’s phone went right to voicemail and was like, “Here, call this person. I am out of town.” She was like, “I literally saw this person yesterday and she said nothing about this.” I don’t know why, but that frustrated me so much because as a doula, a provider, and a person on call-- I’ll just say, it’s hard to be on call, but at the same time it’s really important if you’re going to have that profession. It’s important to take it seriously. Be honest and open, not just not show up. Do you know what I mean? It’s just frustrating. Liz: I think their thing is that when you’ve worked in a profession especially like healthcare for so long, you don’t even realize that it’s the other person‘s first experience with it. So you’re like, “Yeah well, I’m going on vacation because whatever”. Not excusing this, but more just understanding that this happened a lot to me. With nurses, even just the way people would talk about your birth and your experiences. It’s so new, fresh, and terrifying to you in so many ways and you’re not even on their radar. Meagan: You’re like, “Listen this is my first time. These things are scary. I’ve never done this. It’s all new. Please talk in a gentle way.” Liz: Right, totally. I did not know and this is not my bad, but just a new experience. I didn’t do all this research on all of these other things because it never occurred to me that they would happen. I never researched Pitocin and what that would do because I was like, “Oh, well I’m just going to have a natural birth with this doula and everything‘s going to be fine.” Which, yeah. Pitocin kicks in and it’s terrible. The IV popped out of my vein and infiltrated my arm. I had all of the liquid going through my arm instead of into my vein. Meagan: Were you just puffing up? Liz: It was terribly painful. It made the contractions look like nothing. Everything goes terribly. I’m done. I’ve been in labor for a good amount of time now, probably 12 to 15 hours or something. Doula finally shows up and I’m at my peak. I’m already on Pitocin. I’ve already had this infiltration. Oh, and my OB told me that I only had a 40% chance of giving birth naturally because my son hadn’t dropped yet. There was so much stuff thrown at me. Meagan: What?! Because he hadn’t dropped yet? You weren’t even… Liz: Yeah, it was bad. She got there and I was like, “I’m done. I’m done. I want an epidural. I’ve hit my peak.” Anyhow, long story short, I had my son in the most common, over-told story like, “Goes into distress because that’s what happens all the time when this set of interventions gets thrown into play” and ended up with an emergency C-section which I never prepared for. I don’t think I was too emotionally broken by it because, at the end of the day, I just wanted everyone to be safe. He was there and it was wonderful, but I didn’t realize how painful a C-section is and I didn’t realize how completely unable I would be to walk and do things. Notably, my husband was in a cast in his right arm at the time. I just did not have the support that I needed. So that’s that story. Kid was fine. Everything was fine, but it was very “meh” at the end of the day. Meagan: Man, I am sorry that you had frustrating things like that. That’s just so hard. Liz: I am grateful that everyone was okay. I’m grateful that— I don’t know. I mean, I could sit here forever and talk about how terrible and horrible it was. And it was. There were traumatic moments of it. And those-- I didn’t even realize I was so upset by it until I got very close to having the birth of my second son. But what I can say, is that what was more important, is you should research every kind of possible situation that could happen to you and birth because so often, things could go in all of these different ways. I just wasn’t prepared and I didn’t have the support. I didn’t have anyone on my side. My dear husband just wants me to not be in pain, right? So he’s going to do anything I say. Meagan: Right, yeah. This is something that we talk about on the podcast all the time because we share stories of all types. We share VBAC, CBAC, we share uterine rupture. We really share all types of stories. We have had people write to us and say that it actually upsets them that we share these stories. We talk about it and say that the reason we share these stories is because we want to prepare you in all the ways. So no, you don’t have to listen to this story at all, but it’s important because we also felt like we were there too. We didn’t plan on having a C-section. C-section wasn’t even in the midst of what we were imagining. I’m sure Julie didn’t plan on getting preeclampsia. That wasn’t her plan. Julie: I was superwoman when I was pregnant until I wasn’t. Meagan: Right. I also didn’t know the difference between a VBAC supportive versus a VBAC tolerant provider. There are so many things along the way that I think it’s so important that we research because we don’t expect them to happen to us. We hope that these things don’t happen to us, but they can. If we are prepared a little bit mentally-- not like we’re planning on that happening-- but if we’re prepared that it’s a possibility, then it doesn’t hit us like a freight train when it happens if it happens. Liz: Right. It’s all about informed decision making too. You can 100% end up, not even attempting a VBAC, you can just decide, “Oh I want to have another C-section.” But to be able to go through the process of understanding what that means and what consequences, either negative or positive, come from that, it’s a peaceful way of understanding. I think that I was just like, “Oh, well I am young, I am hip. I am just going to have this baby.” There’s so much of motherhood from breastfeeding to discipline to everything. It doesn’t come naturally. You do need to reach out and talk to people and ask for support and learn all of these different ways because that’s how you can make the decision that you can feel okay with and feel at peace with. Meagan: Exactly. I couldn’t agree with that better. Liz: Oh, and the baby came. The end. Y’all want to dive into this crazy story? Meagan: Let’s hear it. Liz: Cool. I think everything about my second kid has been this exciting surprise. The irony being that probably a week before we got pregnant with him, we had just sat down and had this conversation about how we were going to wait another year and it wasn’t the right time right now. Then surprise! There he is. So, a surprise pregnancy. I just kind of assumed, “Well, I had a C-section with the first one so I guess this one will be a C-section too. That’s nice because I can schedule it and I know when he’s coming. It’ll make teaching easier because I can say, ‘Oh this is when I’m going to take off and blah blah blah.’” It never even occurred to me. A few people had mentioned VBAC to me and I was like, “I don’t know.” I feel like I had kind of just given up on that whole idea of having that type of birth because everything just went so wonky with my first kid that it was like, “Well I guess that’s just not in the cards for me.” But I did switch OB’s. The OB that I switched to was actually the woman who ended up doing my C-section for my other child because, as I mentioned earlier, my OB had to leave. So this other doctor swooped in at the last minute when things were actually going awry. My kid was not doing well and she saved his life. In the hour that I spent with her, I felt more connected to this woman than I had in the nine months that I had with my other OB. Julie: That’s when you know you’ve met the right one. Liz: Yeah. She was funny, we were joking around, she was holding my hand and she was just so in tune. I didn’t even know this woman. She randomly just walked in. So I sent her an email. I had to go through an actually kind of silly process to switch OB’s. It wasn’t as simple as saying, “I’d like this one now.” I had to get permission. Anyhow, so I switched to her. I walked in and it was a totally different experience right away. She was the one who was like, “Do you want to try and go for a VBAC? Because you are a perfect candidate. You should do this.” And I was like, “Really?” She said, “Yeah!” Well, I hadn’t really thought about that. So I went home, thought about it for a while, talked to some people and I was like, “Okay sure, yeah. Let’s do this. This doctor seems to think it’s a good idea so why not, right?” I kept going through the pregnancy in a much more calm way thinking, “Okay, at some point I’m going to have to start thinking about this whole VBAC thing.” As we got closer, she started talking about how interventions are to be avoided the best we can to have a successful VBAC and how she wants me to stay on my feet for as long as possible. She wants me to labor at home for as long as possible. She wants me to start working on my squats and all of the stuff and I’m like, “Okay, okay. So no epidural, no Pitocin. That’s good. Okay,” and thinking about it. I was at home and I stubbed my toe. My sweet husband— I was crying, “Oh, my toe hurts.” And my husband was like, “There, there.” And I go, “Oh my god. I have to hire a doula.” Because I realized that this man was not going to be able to support me enough through unmedicated labor. Julie: That’s funny. That’s really funny. Liz: I was like, “Nope. There, there is not going to work for me.” When I call epidural, I’m going to need someone to say, ”No.” So I started researching and then everything started clicking. I was like, “Oh my gosh. I have to have a relationship with this woman. She’s going to see me and my most vulnerable state. I should like her. We should agree on the same things fundamentally.” All these things that just didn’t even occur to me when I was looking for a doula the first time. Then I met this super awesome chick named Jolie. We talked right away and both of us were like, “Oh, this is going to be great.” She had a lot of success with VBACs and I just loved her. Everything was wonderful. We met I think one time, maybe twice, and in one of those first or second meetings she mentioned, she was like, “Hey we are watching this COVID thing.” I was like, “Oh yeah, that’s a thing.” She was like, “Yeah. I don’t think it’s going to be a big deal especially because you are due in May. No big deal. But just so you know.” Meagan: Little did she know… Liz: Little did anyone know! Meagan: I know, right? Liz: She was like, “I’m sure this will all be taken care of, but you should know that in some states they are starting to limit hospital visitors. Just be aware of that.” So after a long discussion, we decided, as things got worse with COVID and especially in Houston. Actually, we didn’t even really get bad until July, but my husband and I decided that it would be better for him to stay home with our older son because I didn’t want someone else coming into our home and for Jolie to go to the hospital with me because I wasn’t going to be able to have both of them. And I was like, “If someone’s going to be with me while I am in labor, I love my husband, but I think I would rather have my doula.” That was the plan. I’m trying to think. I was around 39 weeks and then I started having that prodromal labor again. Laboring patterns through the night every ten minutes, sometimes every eight minutes. It got down to five minutes. Wake up in the morning, nothing. Meagan: Prodromal labor is terrible. We actually wrote a blog ( https://www.thevbaclink.com/how-to-turn-prodormal-labor-into-active-labor/ ) about it because a lot of people don’t even know about it. There are things you can do to help, but sometimes it doesn’t even help then. I’m sorry that you’ve had this twice. Liz: It just makes you feel crazy because you’re like, “Okay, this is it. We should start really thinking about it. It’s going to happen tomorrow.” Then you wake up and nothing. But what ended up really happening is that yes there was some prodromal labor, but what was really happening is, it would seem as if it was stopping during the day, but really my contractions were spreading out so much that I wasn’t taking note of them. So I think really I was in labor a lot longer than I thought I was, which is why everything ended up happening the way it did. So it would happen, I labor at night, wake up in the morning, and then it was Mother’s Day. It was Sunday. It was Mother’s Day. Over the night, I was having pretty strong contractions. Jolie had finally said, she goes, “Look. Don’t even text me or call me unless you have to moan through these contractions because at this point you’re just going to drive yourself crazy thinking, ‘Oh this is it. Let me text Jolie. Oh, now it’s not it. You’re going to be disappointed. Relax, and let it happen.’” Oh man, guys. I almost skipped the best part. Whew! That would have been rough. Okay, back up. She came up around Saturday before Mother’s Day and she said, “Can you think of anything emotionally that is keeping you from maybe fully going into labor?” And I was like, “No I think I’m really good. I think I feel really comfortable and confident about all of this.” She was like, “Why don’t you just take a long bath tonight and maybe find a way to let some emotional release happen? Maybe you watch a movie that always makes you cry or listen to a song or something like that.” I went into the bath and when I was in the bath, I started talking to the baby. I was like, “Hey kiddo. It’s time. You’re ready, almost 40 weeks. You can come out now.” And through that conversation I told my husband, I said, “It felt like I was reciting a monologue, this memorized monologue of a character that wasn’t even me because it was so tucked away in my feelings that I didn’t even know I felt this way.” I started talking about how I didn’t know who this baby was and he was just this stranger who was coming in. I was so sad about losing my alone time with my older son and how we had gotten to a place where everything was so good with him. I had such a strong relationship with him and who’s this new kid who’s going to come in and mess this whole thing up? Is my kid going to be mad at me and resent me for having this other child? We finally figured it all out and now we’re going to start this whole process all over again. I just burst into tears in the bath, just crying, crying, crying, crying about it, and then went to sleep and started having pretty regular contractions. I woke up the next morning for Mother’s Day and they kept going so my husband, my son and I had a picnic in the front yard while having contractions. I called my doula and said, “I think I am actually in labor now. I think it’s time to come over.” She goes, “Okay, well, I’m going to take my time.” I was like, “Yeah I’m not worried. We’ve still got time. No big deal.” So she started to head over. I think it took her like an hour, an hour and a half to come over, nothing too big. We were sitting in my son’s playroom and I was building blocks with him and talking with him. I would stop and have a contraction.  I would lean over and I would moan through it and then get back to talking with my son. I go, “Oh Jolie, I have to tell you this story. I have to tell you. I think I figured out the emotional thing that was keeping me from going into labor. I told her the story about how I was just so sad about missing time with my kid and then I started crying to her. Literally, right after I finished that story and wiped my last tear, I leaned over and went from having a 45-second contraction every four minutes to having a minute and a half long screaming, so intense contraction. My two-year-old came over to me and put his hand on my back and held my back while I was having the contraction. Then my water broke. It was like I finally let everything go and I said, “Okay, I think my water broke. It’s time to go to the hospital. These are getting closer.” It was like they were starting to speed up. I was like, “Let’s get ready to go. Let’s start packing things.” I tried walking to the bathroom and fell to the ground and was like, “Whoa. Something is different. This is wild.” I was scared. It went from manageable contractions, not great, but I could deal with them to, “I can’t think straight, this is so painful. So I think I made my way to the bathroom after that next contraction. I reached in to feel what was going on and the baby’s head was right there. Jolie was like, “We need to go to the hospital now.” I said, “We are not making it to the hospital.” She was like, “Oh, okay.” So you know, doula. Not a medical professional. She’s like, “We need to call the EMTs. We need to get someone here.” They call them and I had two more contractions and then was crowning after that. Meagan: Oh my gosh! Liz: Yeah. My house was built in 1940 and I have this little tiny half-bath underneath the stairs that’s smaller than Harry Potter‘s bedroom. Jolie is somehow standing in there and my husband is off holding my kiddo who’s like, “Why is mommy screaming?” I start pushing because here’s the thing. This was the labor that I knew existed out there in the world that when you’re ready to push, you have no other choice than to push. You don’t need anyone to tell you, “Hey it’s time to push now.” You know what to do. My husband started repeatedly telling me that he loved me and I very kindly told him to shut the explicit up. Julie: That’s when you know you’re getting close when the F-bombs start dropping. Liz: Yep. I was like, “Don’t you talk to me.” Jolie was rubbing my back. I said, “Get your hands off me. Don’t touch me.” I was on hands and knees. The EMT came in after my son‘s head was out and in, I think it was three pushes, baby came out. I caught him, then the EMT who— gosh bless them but they had no idea what they were doing. They were just so out of their element. They were like, “We are used to car crashes, ma’am. I don’t know what this is.” Oh, at one point he goes, “Ma’am just push.” I said, “Sir, I know that.” Meagan: “Leave me alone. I know what I’m doing. You just sit there.” Liz: “You just be there.” So he takes the baby and I’m like, “Hey can you pass him to me?” He goes, “How?” And I said, “Through my legs.” I suction bulbed him. I rubbed him and Jolie was like, “Holy moly.” I was like, “I know!” We are holding this baby and then it’s like, “Oh my gosh what do we do now?” Because I had no plan to give birth at home. I mean, I had Jolie there but no medical professional. I just got this baby. What are we to do now? And placenta is still in, blah blah blah. So this is where, depending on who you ask-- It is so interesting guys, how many people have opinions on a birth that has nothing to do with them. Julie: Oh my gosh. Say it again because that is so true. I just can’t even. Liz: It’s fascinating. There was a picture that my doula put up of me from this birth that kind of went vaguely viral and I would have people talking about how irresponsible it was of me to have a VBAC at home, and that this was clearly planned by me and my evil witch doula. We were just trying to cheat the system, right? Julie: Oh, girl. I got called a selfish cow on my YouTube video of my home birth. Liz: Isn’t that nice? Julie: Yeah. I think the same girl commented on Meagan’s video that court-mandated Cesareans are a good thing. That’s what she said on Meagan’s video. Meagan: Yeah. She attacked my VBA2C. I swear she told me that I deserved to go to jail because I had my baby at a hospital. Julie: People are just awful. Liz: Yeah. It’s wild. It is wild. So we had that and then on the completely other end of the spectrum-- So I ended up going to the hospital after I had the baby because I want to make sure everything‘s okay. It’s a VBAC. I don’t know if everything is cool with me. I don’t know if everything is cool with the baby. The placenta is still in. I got up and walked myself out of my house carrying my baby still attached to a gurney and that’s where my doula took this picture of me getting on there. I got him breastfeeding. I am lying on this gurney and the sun is bright. It’s Mother’s Day. It’s really cool, right? Then, on the other end of the spectrum, this other person was commenting so much on this picture about how ridiculous it was that I would go to the hospital and how it was that patriarchy that had made me think that I need medical assistance blah blah blah. The point is, is that you can’t win. I am either irresponsible because I had a home birth or irresponsible because I went to the hospital. You know? It’s interesting. Julie: Yeah. I feel you on that one, especially right now. Liz: There’s no good choice. So I went. Everything was fine and it was good I went because I had some tearage that I needed to get taken care of. But the point is, is that I had this accidental, Mother’s Day, COVID-19 home birth. The cool thing was that I didn’t have to pick between my doula or my husband because everyone was there. I got to keep my kid safe. I got to have my baby in this completely natural way that I didn’t even realize how much I needed. I went from having a birth where I had literally zero control and zero-knowledge and everyone else telling me what to do, and then a birth where I caught my own baby, suction bulbed him, and walked out carrying him while he was still attached to me. It’s so incredibly empowering and on Mother’s Day. It was so cool. It was so cool. Meagan: So special. One that you won’t ever forget. That’s for sure. Julie: Okay, I have got to ask though. Is that picture the one you attached to your story? Liz: Yeah. Julie: Okay. So if you want to see the picture, go to our-- Oh my gosh, I love it. I just opened it. Wow. Okay, if you want to see this picture which, trust me you do, go to our Facebook ( https://www.facebook.com/thevbaclink/ ) or Instagram ( https://www.google.com/search?aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60l3.1939j0j7&ie=UTF-8&oq=vbac+link+instagram&q=vbac+link+instagram&sourceid=chrome ) pages. Search for The VBAC Link and look for her episode picture because wow. Like, wow. This is a really impactful picture. Liz: It’s pretty cool. Julie: I’m glad you shared it. Meagan, are you looking at it? Meagan: No, I actually had just closed out of my thing so I’m going back in. As soon as you said that I was like, “I am going to find out.” Julie: Well, we are just about out of time but before we wrap up and while Meagan‘s looking at the picture... Meagan: Oh wow! Julie: There you go. There it is. Liz: We joke about how we want to frame it. Meagan: Wow. Wow. I have chills. I have freaking chills. Oh, amazing. Look at your legs and the door, the patio steps. How awesome is that? Liz: I know. Julie: Yep. Oh my gosh. Liz: It’s pretty cool. It’s pretty cool. Yeah, we want to frame it and put it in the bathroom he was born in so we can be like, “This was you.” Julie: The look on your face-- It’s like the stillness and the peace but then clearly you just had a baby because of how your legs are and the patio steps and everything. There’s so much emotion and power in the picture. Liz: Yeah, I love it. It is really good. I am so glad she caught it. I wasn’t even thinking about it. She just clipped it on my phone. When I got to the hospital later, I was looking through my phone and there was that picture. I was like, “Holy moly.” It’s a good one. Emotional release Julie: Well Meagan, do you want to do a really quick review on emotional fear releases? Not even necessarily fear releases but just releasing emotions. Meagan: Yeah. You experienced talking about these things. You said, “It was like I didn’t even know. I said it and it changed everything.” Sometimes we don’t think. Like you said, “No I’m fine. I’m good. I feel good about this.” But sometimes there are other things. I had an experience with a client of mine who’s actually on the podcast as well. She is a VBA2C mom. She had started a podcast for stories of C-section birth. She’s had two of them. She feels inspired that C-section moms need to be able to share stories as well. Anyways, so she’s in labor, her water breaks and nothing happens. The next day, nothing happens. The next day, nothing happens. I mean, she’s contracting on and off, here and there. It’s been three days with her water broken. She’s being monitored very closely by a skilled professional midwife and she even did dual care in a hospital. Everything was going great. The weird thing is she would start contracting, start contracting, start contracting, and then it would stop. Then she’d start contracting again, stop. We are like, “What is going on?” The midwife said that she could feel the tension in her cervix. Like, actually feel it. She sent her home and everything and she’s like, “Come over. Just come be with me.” I was like, “Okay.” We go over and she is talking a lot about her podcast. She’s like, “Well if I have a vaginal birth then how can I have a podcast for C-sections?” I was like, “Whoa whoa whoa. You can absolutely have a podcast for C-sections.” She’s like, “Yeah but then they’ll probably think I’m not really supportive because I chose to have a VBAC.” She started like going over what is in her head. I was like, “Okay. Let’s hold up.” I got some paper and we started writing things down. I said, “Write down all your thoughts.” So we wrote them all down and then we solved them. If that makes sense. We solved each of them. Right after she read them and we solved them, she burned them right there. On hands and knees, she burned them in this pot on her floor. Her, her mom, and I. We were all just gathered around her. It was so interesting. After each piece of paper that she burned, her contraction would pick up. And not just happen, like intensity. So after we processed all of this, it really seriously did make a big difference. She went on and she totally rocked her VBA2C after five days of labor but there was a lot that she needed to let go emotionally and physically to allow this baby to come. I also had an experience myself. There’s actually a picture of my midwife hugging me and talking to me. She’s like, “You’ve got to get out of your head. You’re going to be okay. Stop doubting yourself.” She kept saying, “Stop doula-ing yourself.” I’m like, “Oh okay.” I got out of that space and things changed. You processed this thing that you weren’t super thinking about all the time, but obviously, it was there. Your subconscious was thinking about this and then it changed everything. I think that the more you can work through things, fear release before you enter birth, the better. But know that it’s okay to work through it during labor too. It’s okay to stop and let labor go if that makes sense. Let it just be and then process what’s going on. Talk about it. That’s another reason why it’s so important to have people in your birth space that you trust, can discuss and talk about because once you discussed this and you said it out loud, to the point where someone was listening, boom. Things went from 0 to 90 it sounds like. We talk about it in our course and we talk about it with our clients because it’s important. There are tons of ways you can do it. Like I said, you can burn them. Julie has a video on our Y ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9-WIkEls5U ) ouTube, right? It’s on YouTube, not Instagram stories right? Or maybe it’s on both. Julie: Yeah. Well, I think it’s on Instagram stories or IGTV ( https://www.instagram.com/tv/B4TJsSkASx5/?hl=en ) and on our YouTube Channel ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9-WIkEls5U ) , The Smokeless Fear Release. But notice, it’s only smokeless if you are only burning a small amount of paper because one time we did it in a class at my house. There were six people burning their papers and we totally set off my smoke alarms still. Meagan: Yes. So there’s that, writing it down. In our course, we have a fear release activity that we do where we try to figure out where the stem of the fear is coming from because sometimes there’s a lot of static and it seems like it’s so much more than it really is. If we can break it down and find the stem, or the root I should say after last year, then all the little leaves on the fear tree don’t seem so big. Don’t we have a free download, Julie, on our blog? Julie: I don’t think we have the fear release worksheet as a free download. Meagan: Oh, maybe we don’t. Darn it. I was going to say, “We have one to download.” Julie: It doesn’t have to be anything formal. You can just write down your feelings. Write down all the things that are on your mind. Just write and write and write. It doesn’t have to be perfect writing. It doesn’t have to be punctuated correctly. It doesn’t even have to be legible. Just write it down on paper. Don’t even go back and reread it. Write it down, then burn it or flush it down the toilet or-- probably rip it into small pieces before you do that-- or bury it, throw it into a river, shred it and toss it into the wind, or something to get rid of it. There’s a lot of power in doing that. Q&A Meagan: We have some questions that I would love to ask you. We did go over maybe what some of the answers would be, but the first one is, what is a secret lesson or something that no one really talks about that you wish that you would have known ahead of time? What we just said pretty much covered that. You didn’t know all of these things, but is there anything you’d like to add to that? Liz: Read the books. It’s a happy medium between making yourself crazy by hearing a bunch of different stories that could go wrong and just understanding the scope and sequence of birth. Meagan: Right. Totally. The other question is, what is your best tip for someone preparing for a VBAC? We personally love this answer that you wrote down, but I love every single one of them. What would you say? Liz: Listening to The VBAC Link religiously and I can’t-- Oh, I know how I found you. I had to think about it for a second. Meagan: Yeah. How did you find us? We love learning how people find us. Liz: It all just came from a hashtag. I started getting really into it. I got onto Instagram and started looking at VBAC as a hashtag. Y’all are right up there at the top. Julie: Boom. Liz: You have all your little tips and I was like, “Who are these people?” I think I started following you and reading the stories. At some point, I saw a picture and it was like, “Listen to so and so‘s birth story.” I hopped on over. It was perfect timing with COVID happening. There was all this time to walk around and listen to podcasts all of a sudden. So that’s how it happened. I would say, do that. I would say, find a book that resonates with you. There are lots and lots of different books that give you all kinds of advice. The one that I really loved and worked for me really well was-- I can’t remember who wrote it-- but it was Natural Childbirth in the Hospital or something to that extent. It talked about how to have a birth without medicine in the hospital. It was really cool. Meagan: I am looking it up right now. Having a natural birth at the hospital does that sound-- Liz: That sounds really really familiar, yeah. Julie: I think it’s Natural Hospital Birth or something. Liz: That’s it. Meagan: Natural Hospital Birth: The Best of Both Worlds by Cynthia Gabriel. ( https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Hospital-Birth-Best-Worlds/dp/1558328815 ) Liz: The coolest thing about it is that it’s a workbook in a lot of areas. It has you do this thing that was so helpful to me. It had you write down your dream birth. Not like your dream reasonable birth, but your dream if space and time didn’t exist. You could do fantasy kind of things. Like, “Oh, well here you are in Arizona during the early birth.” Then when you’re transitioning, you were here. This music’s happening. I got to write down this crazy, ridiculous could never actually happen birth, like my ideal birth. Going through that process I was able to find things that I could actually take into real life that would be important for me to experience during birth. I thought that was really cool. Megan: I love that. I need to read more books. Sometimes I am just like, “Man.” You guys, I swear I just can’t read. Julie: We all know that you don’t like to read by now, I think, and it’s okay. You don’t have to like to read. That’s what podcasts are for. Meagan: I know. I know I just can’t do it but you learn such valuable things. Julie: You know, I used to love to read. I buy books and I intend to read them, but now by the end of the day, kids are in bed, I crash and I’m like, “Reading is too much work.” Liz: Book on tape, book on tape. Meagan: Yeah, I do listen. I do listen to that and I cycle. So I sometimes will listen to books that way. It’s kind of nice. But yeah. Oh, another thing you added on that was fitness and good health. I love that. I am a big advocate for that. I’ve seen a big difference in my own births because of that. Liz: That’s huge. I think that’s one of the amazing things that COVID contributed to because again, I had all this time now. It happened in this beautiful time in Houston where it actually was great weather. It was not hot in March when all this started. I was going on two hour walks every day with my two-year-old all around the park. That was so incredibly important to having a successful VBAC. Meagan: I love it. Yep. With my first pregnancy, I gained 42 pounds and was really swollen. I was a hot mess. With the next one, I really dialed into nutrition, fitness, and all that stuff. I didn’t have a VBAC with that but I don’t think it was because of anything. I think that my all-around pregnancy and everything was so much better because of where I was at. Liz: Yeah. I gained 50 pounds with my first so I hear you girl. Meagan: Yeah. It’s funny. I have people in my neighborhood-- They didn’t know me when I was pregnant with my first. They’ve seen pictures and they’re like, “You’re unrecognizable.” I am like, “Yeah. I know. I was an Oompa Loompa.” But yeah. Well, awesome. Thank you so much. Liz: Thanks guys, it was awesome talking to you. Closing Would you like to be a guest on the podcast? Head over to thevbaclink.com/share ( http://www.thevbaclink.com/share ) and submit your story. For all things VBAC, including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Julie and Meagan’s bios, head over to thevbaclink.com ( http://www.thevbaclink.com ). Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In this episode I talk all about how I've been feeling since graduating college a year ago in 2019, and how unconventional that year has been. Especially since the beginning of the quarantine. This is an especially vulnerable episode, since I talk about how I have struggled with finding a full time job since graduating, and how I got laid off from my part-time gig at the beginning of quarantine. Creators to check out: Check out Jazmine Rogers for all your thrifted fashion and sustainable lifestyle! Follow her @ThatCurlyTop on Instagram, and That Curly Top on YouTube. Check out one of my oldest friends Cassie Braun for some awesome bookish content for my fellow readers out there! Follow her @manoshgirl51 on Instagram, and Cassie Braun on YouTube. Where to follow Liz: You can follow @thegingerintrovert on Insta for all of my blog content and some thrifted fashion inspiration! I also have new posts on The Ginger Introvert website on Tuesdays and Thursdays, all about thrifted and sustainable fashion! I also have a page where I sell vintage clothing as well, and you can follow my shop @thegingerthrift on Instagram, or @thegingerintrovert on the Depop app. I drop new inventory every Friday! Additionally, if you're a big reader like me, you should follow my Bookstagram @gingerintrovertreads to see what I'm reading on a weekly basis! Click here to access the full show notes, including all these links and a full transcription on The Ginger Introvert website!

Build a website in just 5 days (even if you're not techie) at www.free5daywebsitechallenge.com Already have a website? Take the Free "Jumpstart Your Website Traffic" marketing mini-course at www.jumpstartyourwebsitetraffic.com Leave a Review! My guest today is Liz Fleming, a personal branding and digital marketing strategist who teaches entrepreneurs like us how to successfully tell our stories so we can profit from our passions. I met Liz through another guest on the podcast - Wendy Breakstone from Episode 217 - and even though I’d never spoken to Liz prior to this episode, I felt an instant connection to her story because it felt so similar to mine when you just have that moment where you realize that going to college and getting a job to work for someone else on their terms isn’t what you want for the rest of your life - and then all of the feelings and emotions that come from that realization and then the hard work of moving toward change. But here’s what I want you to take away from that - Liz and I bonded over a shared story. And that’s exactly what she helps her clients do - tell their story in a way that gets their website visitors, their newsletter subscribers and their customers bond with them in an authentic way. Today we’re talking about: Liz’s transition from side-hustle to self-employed. Exactly how she booked her first clients. How Liz figured out what to put in her online course. Liz’s 4-E Formula for how to structure a personal brand. Why you should Google yourself. Why your story is important (even if you think it’s not). Liz’s advice on how to attract your ideal client. How Liz schedules her work day. Liz’s strategy for creating a to-do list you can actually get done. Liz’s best advice for you if you’re struggling to get traction in your side hustle. The one belief Liz had to change about herself to get where she is today. My favorite quotes from Liz: “A lot of observation, risk taking and staying education was how I really progressed my craft.” “Know that you’re able, capable, knowledgeable and just believe in that to the fullest.” “Maybe it’s been done before, but it’s never been done by me. That is my value and I need to start believing in myself for others to believe in me too.” “You can’t force your natural creativity. You have to let it develop and the only way to do that is to take care of yourself and trust yourself.” “If you are going to live a life of joy and prosperity then you need to look out for number one, and that is YOU.” Resources Mentioned in this episode: Marie Forleo Charlene Johnson Liz’s Brand in Bloom course Liz’s Freebie: 12 Simple Steps to Create Glowing Social Media Profiles More About Liz: Liz Fleming, a personal branding and digital marketing strategist, helps entrepreneurs successfully tell their stories so they can profit from their passions and live life in full bloom. She does so using her proven framework The 4-E Formula™, a four-step system she designed to help entrepreneurs organically maximize and monetize their exposure, which she shares via one-on-one VIP coaching, training programs like her online course Brand in Bloom™ and group immersion workshops. Throughout her decade long career, after representing both small businesses and multi-million dollar organizations like, The PGA of America, The Republic of Tea, and Walkers Shortbread, she’s found that the key to great marketing is leaning on your imagination to tell your true story well and to listen, connect, and engage with others who do the same: to plant seeds of significance. Her work has been featured by The Rising Tide Society/Honeybook, Legacy Magazine, PGA Magazine, The Scalable CEO Podcast, The Rebel Boss Summit, Launch Brand Grow, and CBS News, and she actively gets her clients featured by The New York Times, Oprah Magazine, Today Show, and many more. Her secret to success? Bloom where you’re planted. Connect with Liz: You can connect with her online at elisabethfleming.com and on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Pinterest and Twitter @mslizfleming  

In which Liz Jackson tells us she wishes people viewed accessibility as an opportunity to engage, rather than a legal compliance thing. Thanks to Twilio for sponsoring the transcript for this episode. Make sure you have a look at: Their blog: https://www.twilio.com/blog Their channel on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/twilio Diversity event tickets: https://go.twilio.com/margaret/ Transcript Transcript Nic:    Welcome to the accessibility rules podcast. This is episode 79. I'm Nic Steenhout, and I talk with people involved in one way or another with web accessibility. If you're interested in accessibility hey, this shows for you. To get today's show notes or transcript head out to https://a11yrules.com. Thanks to Twilio for sponsoring the transcript for this episode. Twilio connect the world with the leading platform for voice, SMS, and video at Twilio.com. In this episode, I'm continuing my conversation with Liz Jackson. Welcome back, Liz. Liz:    Thanks, again for having me. Nic:    Thank you. So, the last show was really great. We talked about quite a few things that are not necessarily the usual topics of this podcast, including disability culture friction and nothing about us without us, so that's been really powerful stuff. We finished last week on a great positive thought of “Let's make this fun.” Let's flip that a little bit and ask you, Liz… What's your greatest frustration about accessibility? Liz:    My greatest frustration with accessibility is I think the fact that people view it as a box to be checked. That there's a minimum amount that you need to do and that I think is fundamentally lacking in creativity. I'm not saying that that's what accessibility is. I'm saying that that is the perception of what it is. I think people view it a lot in terms of legal compliance. And I just… I wish we could sort of view it instead as an opportunity to engage. And I'm going to pause for a second because… you'll hear why. Nic:    You were saying we should view accessibility as an opportunity to engage rather than as a compliance thing. Liz:    Yeah, I think right now the way accessibility is being done is oftentimes at the exclusion of actual disabled people. I oftentimes use the example… I have sort of an obsession with National ADAPT, and so I oftentimes use the example of; Okay, so how did… What happened with that original gang of 19 and bus lifts? And this is really the thing that I saw. So, what happened was, in the early 1970s, right, this is the first time in history that disabled people were actually escaping institutions, right? So out in society, they looked really radical. And they wanted something very radical. The wanted access. They wanted accessibility, and they wanted it in the form of bus lifts on busses. And they went about it in a radical way. They parked their bodies in front of buses and intersections in Denver, and they protested for access. And, at the time society was probably incredibly frightened of these bodies that they hadn't previously experienced. But, if you look at sort of what happened in the years after what you see is that suddenly people stopped perceiving those bodies as being so radical. They became accustomed to seeing disabled people out in society, so, they became less radical, and their ideas became less radical. People started thinking, “Yeah, access is a human right. Buses should come with bus lifts.” And, ultimately buses did start coming with bus lifts and this idea of buses on buses, it was so potent that in the 90s when the  ADA was written buses were written into the ADA. And, I think for me, it is. It's very easy to look at this and sort of view it as a success, but I actually see something a little bit different which is that the very moment that bus lifts were written into the ADA, at least it feels to me, that the national adapt and the people who fought so valiantly for it were no longer needed in the thing that they advocated for. And so, I think in this work that we're doing I wonder how often we are actually inadvertently advocating for our own exclusion by advocating for our own inclusion. And so, for me, the question is how is it that in web access and in these various things that we're fighting for, how is it that we can sustainably advocate to participate. And so for me, it's that mantra. It's design with disability. It's nothing about us without us. How is it that we can ensure that the things that we fight radically for don't turn into things that are empathetically done for us? Nic:    So, I often say that one of my ultimate goals is to do such a good job as to put myself out of a job. So, you know, do enough advocacy and do enough education and do enough work in the accessibility field that this kind of work would not be required anymore. Because, everything would be accessible. Everything would be done with an inclusive mindset which kind of closes the circle, because if you're starting to think of a culture of inclusion, you have to think about getting people with disabilities involved. So, even if I do manage to put myself out of a job as an accessibility specialist I think that the job will be truly, properly done when even though I may not be an accessibility specialist anymore I would still be included in the discussion and in the design phase, and everything to make sure that people with disabilities are part and parcel with the process. Not just an afterthought, or, not just something we do for them. Liz:    Yeah, I think… I think that even in this idea of putting… wanting to put yourself out of business… I think there's a part of me that worries that… are we too in the frame of mind of problems that need to be solved and are we separating culture from access too much? I think I'm someone… I view you as someone who I think is deeply creative and I don't think for a creative person the work ever stops. Nic:    Totally. Liz:    And so for me, the question is, okay, well, say on this very logistical side, yeah you do put yourself out of business. Okay, so then the question becomes “What's next?” Nic:    Absolutely. What's next. Product design, which you've been quite involved with… How can your experience in product design benefit people involved with web accessibility? What lesson could you share from learning about product design that web accessibility people can implement? Think about? Liz:    When there does seem to be a product that's framed around creating accessor a product that's inclusive of disabled people, when it's put out into the world it's oftentimes framed through the lens of empathy. And, I think that there are other ways that we can perceive the works in this space. We don't always have to view disability through this empathetic lens. And, so, I actually have been spending the last couple of years pursuing my own product. More… it's a little bit less about the product, and it's a little bit more about a statement of why… what this work can sound like in terms of tone. And, so the story behind the product is… a couple of years ago I was at South by Southwest, and there were some major accessibility problems. And, it ended up leading me to get into this contentious back and forth with the head of South by Southwest, this guy named [Hugh Forest? 08:27]. And, in one of the phone calls, I basically told him I was going to create a product that was going to basically shed light on the accessibility issues of South by, and to my surprise he was really supportive of it. I had some people who were supportive all along, and I ended up going back to South by this year with an app. It's really my answer to craptions. So a craption is basically those pesky errors that happen in automated captions. I call it thisten, so it's basically ‘this' and ‘listen,' for me, I sort of see it as the physical act of listening. And, you know, I think this is one of the conversations we've been having about the product. Typically when somebody looks at this product, they're going to say, okay, well this is definitely something that benefits somebody who is hard of hearing or deaf. But, I'm saying no. We've got to flip this. This is a product that can not succeed without a massive untapped pool of deaf and hard of hearing talent. And, I think to myself - okay, so then people are going to frame this product as something that solves a problem. And what is the problem that it solves? Well, traditionally I think that society would say this solves the problem, almost, of deaf people. But, that for me is not the problem. For me, the problem is this solves the problem of conferences and events failing to take into account accessibility. And so, I think, every step of the way I'm trying to shift the way our objects and our products are positioned in society and I'm just trying to make sure people fully understand what is it that we are actually solving for. I'm not solving for a deaf person. If I did, I'm sure a deaf person would tell me to go F myself. They don't need me. What I'm solving for is a fundamental, societal problematic lack of access in some of the most influential spaces in the world. Nic:    What do you think the number one reason is that most people fail to take accessibility into account or fail to succeed with implementing accessibility? Liz:    This has really been a passion point for me. And, it's one of the reasons why now I'm trying really hard too. In design schools wherever there is a class that teaches accessibility, I'm also trying to implement a disabilities course work alongside it. Because I think people are learning the ‘how' without the ‘why' and it's… I think there is a fundamental lack of understanding there in what it does, what it does in the long run, what it does in the short term, who it impacts and how it shifts our lives in small but very profound ways. And, it's learning about why do we think about the way we do about x or y. And, I think this is the thing. It's like I love disability. This is the passion of my life, and I think… I look at design, and I see… a designer might, at a very young age, realize ‘I have a knack for this,' but they don't think that they can just design. They know ‘okay, I've got a knack for this. I've got to go to school. I've got to educate myself,' and then they usually encounter me as they're continuing their education in a conference or educational setting. This is a life-long commitment, and yet these are the very people who they sort of turn to disability, and they think they just know. And, I think they think they know because they've been taught to feel a certain way about it, whether it's inspirational or empathetic or whatever the case may be. Whatever these sort of societal narratives are. And so, for me, it's about, well, how do we as disabled people how do we intervene in that sort of expectation of ‘we just know?' How do we intervene and say, ‘No, disability is a creative process.' It is something that you can be passionate about, you can love, and you can commit to. And, you can have ongoing education, and I think the majority of designers don't even know disability studies exist as a field. And so, for me, if you can teach people that this is not just a portfolio or a brand enhancer but rather this is something you can endeavor in and be passionate about and delight in… I think we would have a much easier time. And, I think the thing that sells it short is this frame that we've historically done of just framing something as: simple problem, simple solution. If we could break away from that and delve into the complexity, I think people would get really wrapped up in it. Nic:    There's been a lot on Twitter, quite a few threads on unpopular tech opinions. Would you have an unpopular accessibility/disability opinion to share? Something maybe controversial or something that you think you really believe in but other people might not necessarily agree with. Liz:    Yeah. Oh, do I have one or do you say you have one? Nic:    No, do you have one? Liz:     I suppose I think my thinking about wanting to incorporate disability studies into the accessibility conversation. I think… I don't think it's unpopular in that people don't like it. I think more often than not people feel very drawn to it and can almost sort of… sort of… once its...I'm unable to articulate it, they feel a bit of relief. Like, yeah, I think that's sort of the missing piece. But I think it is unpopular in the fact that we didn't previously consider it. And, so, maybe it's something that just needs to gain a little bit of traction. But, I suppose I fundamentally believe that if I do my… perform the role that I set out to do, which is incorporating a culture into the work that you're doing. I fundamentally believe that I will make your work easier for you to do.  And, so, for me, I think even though I'm not tech savvy, I can barely find my way through the internet. The thing that I'm trying to show is a commitment to a handful of people. And, so, who are those people? I think those people are allies. People who are doing this work that makes the internet accessible. I think I'm also trying to amplify the work of academics, the people who are building the theory and doing the work that has long existed inside of paywalls, how is it that we can bring that out into the mainstream? And, so, if I say sort of I'm trying to honor the friction of my disability I also feel like I'm trying to honor all of those who came before me and have been doing this work much longer than I have, and who are much more adept at doing the physical things that I just don't have the capabilities of doing. I think if anything I like to look and see all of our roles in this and figure out, ‘how is it that I can take a little of the burden from this person so they can thrive better?' Because that's what… I think the allies have been doing, that's what the academics have been doing for me and for others as well. And so it's like, “Okay, how do we sort of complete this circle?” Nic:    How do we? Indeed. My… one of the thinking I have around accessibility itself and one of my frustration is that so many designers and web designers and web developers today don't even know that it exists let alone know about alt text, and I've only been advocating for alt text since the mid 1990s. So, it's not a new topic for me and yet kids coming out of a computer science course should know the basics. They don't even know the basics exist in terms of accessibility, and I want to see that topic taught in computer science and design and development courses, boot camps… I want at least some people to have a basic understanding. And, in some ways it seems like what you're talking about doing is post-graduate work rather than entry level, 101, 100 level courses. So, I'm not sure how to reconcile what you're talking about,which I think is mission critical, but also, make sure that people at least have a basic understanding and awareness of. Liz:    Yeah, I think… and I think maybe I might see this in a different way, I think … it's so easy to get caught up in language in disability, I think… and there's really 2 specific places I see this where I feel very protective of the language and that is the word mobility and the word accessibility. If you look at the word mobility, for me it means wheelchairs and access and all those different things but I sort of feel like now the word mobility is evolving to sort of mean autonomous vehicles and this other thing that exists outside of disability, and so as this word is being brought in to mean so much more and so many more things suddenly the things that I think it fundamentally means to me become a small piece of that. And so, say you want to teach the basics of accessibility as initial course work in… maybe even in high school or in a first-year design school. The thing that I find myself fearful of is that I feel like the word accessibility has become… because it has become this sort of trendy, increasingly trendy word, I feel like it's broadening to mean so many things that even to sort of teach the basics of accessibility I worry that's going to sort of be taken away. Does that make sense? Nic:     Yes. That makes sense. So how do we… how do we teach these topics that are mission critical if we want an accessible web? A web usable by all regardless of disability, without diluting the word accessibility? Liz:    And that's… I think that's the thing that I'm really grappling with right now. ‘Coz it's not just mobility, it's not just accessibility there's other words too, they're just not coming to mind at the moment. But, I think, I remember at some point in my work I think, “Well, what is disability?” Disability fundamentally is the absence of a trend, and I remember I wanted to create this thing called the absence of trend report where we sort of just report on things that exist. Like, regardless of trend. I think I do find myself a little bit fearful that if accessibility does become a trend then that means there's an end to it. And, then people are going to lose interest and then they'll kind of fall into another space. And so, for me, there's this way in which I want to just sort of pull back and be like, no, this is… this exists regardless of whatever feelings we may be putting on to it, whatever momentum and whatever CEO is spousing it's virtues. It exists regardless of that. And, so, how do we take ownership of it and say… I don't want to say it's small because it's big, it's everything, but there's basics. There are fundamentals that the people who are spousing their virtues probably don't even know. And I think I find that scary and I want to figure out how do we protect it. Nic:    Certainly something to think about. I'm grappling with that as well. So, hopefully, you'll wake up one morning and go “Ah ha! I have the answer” and [crosstalk 22:03] able to share that. Liz:    Yeah, I hope so. I think it's important. You know, it's not something I take lightly. And I can't imagine you take lightly either. Nic:    No, no I don't. Liz, let's wrap this up with a final question for you. What's the one thing people should remember about accessibility? Let's focus that specifically. What should people remember about web accessibility? Liz:    For me, the one thing that people should know about web accessibility is it's a learning process. We may not realize that we need it until we need it. We may not we realize that it's there until our failure has left somebody out. We may start to hear the word and not necessarily know what it means and it's okay to not know and it's okay to have been naive. But, once you know and once you are aware that this is something that exists it is something that I believe we have a responsibility to better understand. Especially if we're creating things that go out into the world. And so, for me, I… if your design process is a learning process, if everything that you do is built upon everything you've done before then I hope that you will treat web accessibility the same way. I'm no better or worse than the next person. My initial website, seven years ago, was wildly inaccessible and yet now it has become a predominant focus of my work. And the same can be for you and you can feel really empowered in it. Nic:    Thank you, Liz. That was a really good thought to finish on. Liz:    Thank you. Nic:    Liz Jackson, thank you and go out there and continue doing the good work you're doing. Thank you for that. Liz:    You too. You too. You're doing some pretty profound stuff and I'm honored to be on your podcast. Nic:    Thank you. Liz:    Thank you. Nic:    Thanks for listening. Quick reminder, the transcript for this and all other shows are available on the show's website at https://a11yrules.com Big shoutout to my sponsors and my patrons. Without your support, I couldn't not continue to do the show. Do visit patreon.com/steenhout if you want to support the accessibility rules podcast. Thank you.

Liz Melville is joining Jess again! On this hilarious episode of the Smart Leaders Sell Podcast, Jess is asking Liz to share her journey of revamping her sales process and getting her business to a place she can be truly proud of and happy with. From overwhelming her clientele (and herself) to simplifying and selling, Liz bares it all for our benefit!   In This Episode: From blue chip companies to struggling in her own business. Finding clarity and direction Flipping the switch and niching down Selling something that isn’t making money related Why some people are successful while others aren’t   “You are doing successful launches. Just because they’re not 5 figure yet, doesn’t mean they’re not successful” - Liz “The online world makes it look really easy” - Jess “I didn’t know who I was and what I wanted to deliver” - Liz “If someone I know very well doesn’t know what I do, what hope have I got with someone who don’t know me that well”- Liz “When it’s not working, we want it to be complicated” - Jess “Who am I actually selling to and what process am I going to take them on so they can get the results?” - Jess “The less you teach people, the more valuable it becomes” - Liz “You’ve got to look at yourself and say stop making excuses” - Liz “Freedom is overused as a word, but it’s underrated” - Jess Hang out with Liz in her Facebook Group http://bit.ly/adbreakthrough  If you want sales success like Liz and work with me the doors to Cash Creation my signature group program are still open until 11:59 BST Friday 3 August 2018. Find out more here: https://jessicalorimer.com/cashcreation Content DisclaimerThe information contained above is provided for information purposes only. The contents of this article, video or audio are not intended to amount to advice and you should not rely on any of the contents of this article, video or audio. Professional advice should be obtained before taking or refraining from taking any action as a result of the contents of this article, video or audio. Jessica Lorimer disclaims all liability and responsibility arising from any reliance placed on any of the contents of this article, video or audio.Disclaimer: Some of these links are for products and services offered by the podcast creator

Hello good people and welcome back! This week we welcome a new mixed nerd/newb to the show, Liz! And we let her pick the movie.... and she went with the latest Chris Pratt/J Law movie Passengers. This weeks questions! 1. All Play – The movie features an android barman that whips up drinks and conversation, what sort of job based android would you like in real life? 2. Stacey – Chris Pratt’s character enjoyed dining out at many different restaurants and spending up large in the bar – yet couldn’t figure out how to get a decent breakfast during his year alone, why? 3. Stacey – Do you feel like humans have too greater of a faith in technology 4. Stacey – Given the way things are heading on Earth, how many years are we away from needing this type of life preserving service? 5. Sam – Which character would you get to represent you in court? 6. Sam –Andy Garcia appears at the end and doesn’t say a word, what’s your favourite inexplicable/off beat/unusual movie cameo of all time? 7. Sam – Do you think these two ruined the ship for the others when they woke up? 8. Liz – In the movie, Aurora's character falls in love with Jim. Some critics argued this was because of Stockholm Syndrome. Which celebrity do you think you'd never fall in love with no matter how long you were stuck on a spaceship with them and why? 9. Liz – You are one of the passengers on the ship.. What's the most likely reason you're leaving Earth? 10. Liz – Jim plays a DDR type game and basketball to keep entertained on board the ship. What games could keep you entertained for ninety years? 11. Stacey – Re-cast your least preferred lead character. 12. Stacey – It doesn’t take humans very long to start going crazy in solitary confinement – what’s the longest you have ever been or could survive completely alone? 13. Stacey – How would you incorporate Nicholas Cage into this movie? 14. Sam – Did you think that the name “Aurora” was bit of a weird name for a character? 15. Sam – Would either of you girls have forgiven Chris Pratt? 16. Sam – What type of pizza is this movie? 17. Liz – If you were Jim and decided to wake someone up, how would you pick that person? 18. Liz – In the movie the Martian, Mark pretty much only eats potatoes for a year. In Passengers, Jim was served up an unappetising cube for breakfast every day. Which would you rather? 19. Liz – What would be the best thing about being stuck on the Avalon for the rest of your life? 20. All Play – How do you think Jim and Aurora are getting on 5 years after we left them? Find us on... Facebook: www.facebook.com/nerdvnewb/ Twitter: twitter.com/nerdvnewb

Emilie: Liz, this packing is exhausting! Liz: I know. I didn't realize that I had so much stuff! Look at all of these boxes. Those over there are so heavy. I'm getting quite thirsty with all of this packing and lifting, my thigh muscles are getting a good workout! Emilie: This will be the third time that we've loaded up the car. It was so thoughtful of Peter to give us all of these cardboard boxes. Liz: I know. Hopefully there'll be just one more trip. Emilie: This box is really heavy. Do you need all of these books? They're nothing to do with your course. What do we have here? There's a book on the theater, one on theology, and a thin one on therapies of different kinds. Liz: You know, I'm such a hoarder. I don't like to get rid of anything! Thinking about it, I could donate those three because I'll never read them again. Emilie: Alright! Liz is becoming a minimalist, finally! Liz: Oh no, think again lady; I definitely like my stuff. Hey, after we load up the car, I'll invite you to a drink. My throat is so dry; I feel like I've just run a marathon!

Communication. It doesn't need to be said, yet as it's the answer to so many questions we get asked, it really can't be overstated. One of the most important parts of communication when it comes to sexy time, is learning to ask for what you want, so we discuss that in today's episode of Life on the Swingset, along with Dr. Liz Powell, Mike Joseph, Cooper, and Dylan. Today's episode of Life on the Swingset is sponsored by Better Than the Hand, a website that aims to deconstruct stigma and toxicity surrounding male sexuality and masturbation through articles, blogs, toy reviews, and an online store. We're also sponsored by Castle Megastore, a one stop shop with everything you could want, from wand vibrators, to harnesses, to lube and condoms, to a complete suite of BDSM equipment including sex furniture. If you use the promo code SWINGSET at check out you can save 20% on your order. Dr. Liz starts out stating that there's an assumption of wanting to respect what we think someone else wants, and that we make the assumption that "asking for what I want may negatively affect their experience". Cooper asks if Dylan has this problem because he's trying not to be selfish, Dylan suspects that's the case. Mike Joseph mentions that homosexual sex (especially the top vs. bottom negotiation) by default has more communication than heterosexual sex. Dr. Liz comments that women that have sex with women also have a ton more conversations, and that people who consider themselves sex geeks or sex educators really bump up the level of conversation and negotiation that goes into sex. “If you don’t ask for what you want, you’re not going to have that next level sex you’ve been dreaming of.” “Just like you need to be gracious in saying yes, you should try to be gracious in your no’s as well.” - Dylan “I think a lot of those shitty no’s are coming from people shame as well. The reason you give a really shitty no and react with disgust is this kind of, performative goodness. If what they want is bad, then the best way to separate yourself from it is to perform how offended you are by it.” - Dr. Liz "HOW DARE YOU." “Everything changed when I started asking for what I wanted, It as just as likely to be a result of you not asking for what you want than the party not giving you what you want.” - Cooper While Dylan explains how sometimes, when about to play with someone who has a large tool kit / is well skilled at communication, he likes to get an initial yes to exploration and chart the path forward in the moment, listening to non-language verbal cues, and body response. Mike Joseph mentions that it sounds like a recipe for uncertainty and anxiety, so Dylan talks his way through a play session with someone that's willing an open. Mike discovers that being inside someone often elicits all sorts of non-verbal responses. *grin* Cooper mentions that sometimes, in the run up to a party or play session, it's easy to fire away a thought via instant messenger and walk away, it makes it easy to ask for something without necessarily needing feedback right away. Dr. Liz mentions the mildest and wildest activity that many people use at the beginning of play parties and Dylan mentions that even though he uses it, tt never quite "feels" right. “The way I’ve always seen that exercise (mildest and wildest) is that it tells you where the buffet starts and ends. It doesn’t guarantee that you’ll be able to get any specific dish on the buffet.” - Dr. Liz Dr. Liz also mentions that the mildest and wildest activity helps her check-in with herself, and that it's a way of conveying a range of options, not necessarily a set destination, describing it as the beginning and the end of a buffet. The conversation moves to being awkward about starting conversation. Dr. Liz mentions she has a formula. "What I tell people is one of the most effective ways to start a conversation, is by sharing something you’re feeling about having that conversation. You're leading with your softness instead of leading with your hardness." - Dr. Liz You can also find the John Oliver "This Week Tonight" video about Third Parties here:     Leave us a review and a five star rating on iTunes! Leave us a review and a five star rating on Stitcher! Subscribe to us on Youtube! Android Users: Download and review our Android App! Leave us a comment on this post or at contact@lifeontheswingset.com or leave us a voicemail at 573-55-SWING (573-557-9464). Find Cooper on Twitter @CooperSBeckett, Dylan on Twitter @DylanTheThomas, and Ginger on twitter @GingerNTheProf. You can Cooper’s novel about swinging, A Life Less Monogamous, at alifelessmonogamous.com or his memoir My Life on the Swingset: Adventures in Swinging & Polyamory at mylifeontheswingset.com as an ebook, paperback, or audiobook and if you buy them from his sites, use promo code SWINGSET to save 10%!   Today's podcast featured music by: Intro Music: Grant - Wake Up (feat. Jessi Mason) Outtakes Music: Slips & Slurs x Mikha! - WiFi Tears Outro Music: Koven - Telling Me End of Episode Outtakes: Koven - Breathing Me Politics Music (At the very end): Muzzy & Droptek - Warhead   Cooper S Beckett Dylan Thomas Dr. Liz Powell Mike Joseph

Peter: Hi Liz, are you just about ready? Liz: Yep. Thanks again for giving me a ride. I appreciate all your help. Peter: Oh, don't mention it. Anything for my friends! Liz: You're so sweet. Peter: So, your dad will pick you up at the train station? Liz: Yes. She'll be in her aerobics class, so she won't know that I'm arriving. We'll pick up three more people, plus the birthday cake, and get back to the house before she comes home. Everyone else will be waiting there. Peter: Oh, I love surprise parties. Liz: Me too! Click the link for the Android app // //   //   //