Podcasts about laboring

Contact us. We'd love to serve youGive financially to support the work of helping pastors thriveFind out more information about the Advancing the Church Conference. Request a stay at the Shepherd's HouseWrite a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify Resources(02:40) Biblical foundation and setting up the conversationBeing refreshed spiritually:(06:40) abiding in Christ(11:35) Laboring in hope with the end in viewBeing refreshed physically:(16:27) People, places, and things that are life giving(30:28) Final words(31:01) Develop an off switch(32:08) Being connected emotionally(33:42) Prayer

Contact us. We'd love to serve youGive financially to support the work of helping pastors thriveFind out more information about the Advancing the Church Conference. Request a stay at the Shepherd's HouseWrite a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify Resources(02:40) Biblical foundation and setting up the conversationBeing refreshed spiritually:(06:40) abiding in Christ(11:35) Laboring in hope with the end in viewBeing refreshed physically:(16:27) People, places, and things that are life giving(30:28) Final words(31:01) Develop an off switch(32:08) Being connected emotionally(33:42) Prayer

Full Text of ReadingsTuesday of the Sixth Week of Easter Lectionary: 292The Saint of the day is Saint Augustine of CanterburySaint Augustine of Canterbury's Story In the year 596, some 40 monks set out from Rome to evangelize the Anglo-Saxons in England. Leading the group was Augustine, the prior of their monastery. Hardly had he and his men reached Gaul when they heard stories of the ferocity of the Anglo-Saxons and of the treacherous waters of the English Channel. Augustine returned to Rome and to Gregory the Great—the pope who had sent them—only to be assured by him that their fears were groundless. Augustine set out again. This time the group crossed the English Channel and landed in the territory of Kent, ruled by King Ethelbert, a pagan married to a Christian, Bertha. Ethelbert received them kindly, set up a residence for them in Canterbury and within the year, on Pentecost Sunday 597, was himself baptized. After being consecrated a bishop in France, Augustine returned to Canterbury, where he founded his see. He constructed a church and monastery near where the present cathedral, begun in 1070, now stands. As the faith spread, additional sees were established at London and Rochester. Work was sometimes slow and Augustine did not always meet with success. Attempts to reconcile the Anglo-Saxon Christians with the original Briton Christians—who had been driven into western England by Anglo-Saxon invaders—ended in dismal failure. Augustine failed to convince the Britons to give up certain Celtic customs at variance with Rome and to forget their bitterness, helping him evangelize their Anglo-Saxon conquerors. Laboring patiently, Augustine wisely heeded the missionary principles—quite enlightened for the times—suggested by Pope Gregory: purify rather than destroy pagan temples and customs; let pagan rites and festivals be transformed into Christian feasts; retain local customs as far as possible. The limited success Augustine achieved in England before his death in 605, a short eight years after his arrival, would eventually bear fruit long after in the conversion of England. Augustine of Canterbury can truly be called the “Apostle of England.” Reflection Augustine of Canterbury comes across today as a very human saint, one who could suffer like many of us from a failure of nerve. For example, his first venture to England ended in a big U-turn back to Rome. He made mistakes and met failure in his peacemaking attempts with the Briton Christians. He often wrote to Rome for decisions on matters he could have decided on his own had he been more self-assured. He even received mild warnings against pride from Pope Gregory, who cautioned him to “fear lest, amidst the wonders that are done, the weak mind be puffed up by self-esteem.” Augustine's perseverance amidst obstacles and only partial success teaches today's apostles and pioneers to struggle on despite frustrations and be satisfied with gradual advances. Saint Augustine of Canterbury is the Patron Saint of: England Love the saints? Check out these six titles on Catholic saints! Saint of the Day, Copyright Franciscan Media

How do children develop? How do we give them the best chance of healthy development? The fact of the ocean of ink spilled on this question has not lessened the actual wonder of this process or the reality of its mystery.   In a presentation filled with stories and examples, Brandon Mullet explores the basic needs of children. Brandon speaks as an administrator, teacher, and parent.   He discusses themes such as: Laboring for what is right and fulfilling for children without regard for own reputation and recognition Ministering sacrificially to children Walking with Christ so we can minister in his love Letting children know that we love them and enjoy them and like being with them   This presentation was given over 25 years ago which highlights the reality that these issues are timeless. May you find them illuminating and orienting as you head into the summer and engage with the children in your life as well as reflecting on this past school year. Links Child Development Workshop 1998: https://thedockforlearning.org/series/child-development-workshop/  Opening comic: https://www.gocomics.com/peanuts/1962/02/04 This was first published on The Dock as "Child Development: Biblical Orientation:" https://thedockforlearning.org/lecture/child-development-biblical-orientation/ 

Leviticus 20:7 Philippians 2:12-16

Recorded on 5/10/25. Building Kingdom is not easy. Following Jesus is not easy. But it's so worth it! Join Hector and Ricky in a discussion about the personal challenges of surrender, building, and trying to do what is "right."

In this episode of the MamasteFit Podcast, Birth Story Friday, Roxanne sits down with joined by Allison, who shares her transformative journey through two births. Allison's first experience involved an induction that ended with a C-section during the peak COVID-19 shutdowns, where she felt like a passive participant in the birth process. Her second birth was a VBAC, highlighting the power of proper education, advocating for oneself, and the importance of building a supportive birth team. Allison's story underscores how being an active participant can lead to a more empowering and positive birth experience. 00:00 Introduction to the MamasteFit Podcast01:17 Allison's First Pregnancy and Birth Experience02:47 Challenges During Induction and Labor07:41 C-Section and Postpartum Struggles09:05 Preparing for a VBAC11:21 Second Pregnancy and Labor Preparation17:50 Early Labor Signs and Doula Support20:18 Active Labor and Coping Techniques27:17 Deciding to Stay Home or Go to the Hospital27:36 The Car Ride to the Hospital30:22 Arriving at the Hospital32:14 Laboring at the Hospital38:17 The Final Push and Birth46:33 Postpartum Recovery and Reflections48:35 Importance of Education and Advocacy54:59 Conclusion and Resources——————————Get Your Copy of Training for Two on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3VOTdwH

Building things is part of the human experience. Whether it's physical or spiritual, buildings or families, businesses or communities, we are always looking to build. However, what we build can come crumbling down or become vacant if our heavenly Father and King and Lord Jesus isn't part of the process. Hear this pearl of wisdom in this episode.

Series: N/AService: Gospel MeetingType: SermonSpeaker: Josh McKibbenTo download this video, go directly to the video page on Vimeo by clicking the in-video title above.Look for the download button below the video there.If you feel this was beneficial to you, please like and share this video.

On Monday Match Analysis, Gill Gross dissects Carlos Alcaraz's feel good title in Monte Carlo, beating a banged up Lorenzo Musetti in the final. We'll discuss Musetti's physical woes, the critical start of the 2nd set and how Alcaraz used his soft skills and positive attitude to ascend to the lead, why his drop shot is most effective on clay and why Musetti's return strategy is a good matchup for Alcaraz. 0:00 Intro 2:15 Musetti Physical 4:20 Start of 2nd Set 11:38 Clay Dropshotting 15:55 Returning vs. Carlos IG: https://www.instagram.com/gillgross_/ 24/7 Tennis Community on Discord: https://discord.gg/wW3WPqFTFJ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/Gill_Gross The Draw newsletter, your one-stop-shop for the best tennis content on the internet every week: https://www.thedraw.tennis/subscribe Become a member to support the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvERpLl9dXH09fuNdbyiLQQ/join

Series: N/AService: Gospel MeetingType: SermonSpeaker: Josh McKibbenTo download this video, go directly to the video page on Vimeo by clicking the in-video title above.Look for the download button below the video there.If you feel this was beneficial to you, please like and share this video.

Series: N/AService: Gospel MeetingType: SermonSpeaker: Josh McKibbenTo download this video, go directly to the video page on Vimeo by clicking the in-video title above.Look for the download button below the video there.If you feel this was beneficial to you, please like and share this video.

Series: N/AService: Gospel MeetingType: SermonSpeaker: Josh McKibbenTo download this video, go directly to the video page on Vimeo by clicking the in-video title above.Look for the download button below the video there.If you feel this was beneficial to you, please like and share this video.

Series: N/AService: Gospel MeetingType: SermonSpeaker: Josh McKibbenTo download this video, go directly to the video page on Vimeo by clicking the in-video title above.Look for the download button below the video there.If you feel this was beneficial to you, please like and share this video.

Series: N/AService: Gospel MeetingType: SermonSpeaker: Josh McKibbenTo download this video, go directly to the video page on Vimeo by clicking the in-video title above.Look for the download button below the video there.If you feel this was beneficial to you, please like and share this video.

Ephesians 4:28 As new creatures of Christ, with new-life labor we work the good to share the good. The post New-Life Laboring appeared first on Grace Presbyterian Church (PCA).

Welcome back to the Pain Free Birth Podcast. Today, I'm interviewing Yaya DaCosta, an actor, birth worker, and way shower. We discuss ecstatic birth, Yaya stories giving birth in public in New York City, and how the emotions of Moms during pregnancy can imprint on the psychology and physiology of their babies.   Get 10% off the Pain Free Birth E-course HERE https://painfreebirth.thrivecart.com/pain-free-birth/  Grab the Healing Birth Trauma Course HERE https://painfreebirth.com/healing-birth-trauma/   TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction to Ecstatic Birth 01:15 The Importance of Positive Birth Stories 02:09 Yaya's Personal Journey and Sensitivity 06:30 Navigating Pregnancy in New York City 10:14 The Impact of Maternal Emotions on Babies 12:11 Preparing for a Home Birth 14:49 The Unique Experience of Yaya's Birth 20:16 Laboring in Public: A Walk Through Contractions 25:23 The Moment of Birth: A Transformative Experience 26:58 The Ecstasy of Birth 29:12 Empowering Birth Stories 30:01 The Birth Experience Unfolds 34:11 The Immediate Connection 36:10 The Physiological Instinct of Babies 40:20 Reclaiming Sacred Births 42:37 The Aftermath of Birth 45:03 The Importance of Following Intuition 48:00 Pain Management Techniques 50:47 Addressing Maternal Mortality Rates 51:10 The Importance of Maternal Health Awareness 53:58 Addressing Systemic Issues in Maternal Care 58:02 The Role of Traditional Midwifery 01:01:03 The Black Maternal Health Festival 01:12:01 Cultural Shifts in Birth Practices   Yaya DaCosta's dynamic talent as an actress has been showcased in powerful performances across film, television and stage productions, including “The Lincoln Lawyer”, “Our Kind of People”, “Chicago Med”, “Whitney” and, most recently, “Not My Family: The Monique Smith Story”. The Brown University graduate is also a producer, birthworker, and wayshower, who is deeply dedicated to contributing to society's elevation through, art, beauty and magic. Her current Earth mission is to integrate her different callings through the creation and embodiment of empowering narratives that birth a kinder future for women in the entertainment industry, in birth spaces, and on the planet.   the Black Maternal Health Festival, which is from April 11th-17th. Tickets can be purchased here: https://www.sumistouch.com/bmhf?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaZ-r6Zw-WnMgK4Z_QuZLoJcxYoE3bkTqRWCIVdLdxuNJmlMMqGnYgmhu2Y_aem_3N2VzPaA14_ML097ciLr     CONNECT WITH KAREN: Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@painfreebirthwithkarenwelton  Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/painfreebirth  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/painfreebirth/  Spotify Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/5zEiKMIHFewZeVdzfBSEMS  Apple Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/pain-free-birth/id1696179731 Website - https://painfreebirth.com/  Email List https://pain-free-birth.mykajabi.com/website-opt-in   CONNECT WITH YAYA instagram.com/yayadacosta instagram.com/wrapsnraps wrapsnraps.com

Does it seem like the world rejects God's message? This is not new. Today we'll look at the beginning of Elishah's ministry and see that his message was rejected from his first day. Yet we'll also see that this was the very work that God had called him to do. Join us! DISCUSSION AND STUDY QUESTIONS: 1.    The podcast begins by taking us back to 1 Kings 19 when Elijah met Elisha on his way home from Mount Sinai. What happened at the end of that passage?  2.    The podcast explained that Elisha's plowing with 12 oxen reflected a custom where the local farmers would all farm together in rows. In this instance, it was 12 rows. What do you think was the significance of the fact that Elijah let 11 farmers pass before calling Elisha into the Lord's work? What does Elisha do at the end of that passage to indicate that he was “all in” with serving the Lord?  3.    Going on to 2 Kings 2, the podcast mentioned that the “Sons of the Prophets” were students at the “School of the Prophets.” This school had branches in Gilgal (vs. 1), Bethel (vs 3) and Jericho (vs 5). What do these verses indicate about the relationship that Elisha already had with this school? How does 1 Kings 19 help us understand this dynamic?  4.    What was the significance of Elijah parting the Jordan River in verse 8? How about verse 14? When did a similar miracle happen in the past? According to verse 7, how many people witnessed this miracle? How did they respond to Elisha later in verse 15? 5.    In verses 9 & 10, what did Elisha ask Elijah for? The podcast discussed some possible reasons for this request. Why do you think that Elisha would have asked for such a thing? What did this request show us about the heart of Elisha?  6.    What happened to Elijah in verses 10 & 11? What was the significance of this event?  7.    According to verse 19, what was the situation at Jericho? How did Elisha rectify that situation? What principles can we glean from how God's people ought to be a blessing to the community around them?  8.    On the heels of Elisha blessing Jericho, he then went to Bethel in verse 23. What was the people's reaction to him there?  9.    In verse 24, the Lord sends two bears to attack this crowd. How many were killed? How does that fact help us understand the size of this crowd? Since Bethel was also home to one of the “Schools of the Prophets” what might this youth's hostility to Elisha indicate about the general opinion of the townspeople about the Lord's prophets? 10.    Considering that this is still the beginning of Elisha's ministry, what does this event indicate that Elisha should expect from his service to the Lord? What do you think would go into Elijah's success in laboring among these people?  Check out our Bible Study Guide on the Key Chapters of Genesis! Available on Amazon! To see our dedicated podcast website with access to all our episodes and other resources, visit us at: www.keychapters.org. Find us on all major platforms, or use these direct links: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6OqbnDRrfuyHRmkpUSyoHv Itunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/366-key-chapters-in-the-bible/id1493571819 YouTube: Key Chapters of the Bible on YouTube. As always, we are grateful to be included in the "Top 100 Bible Podcasts to Follow" from Feedspot.com. Also for regularly being awarded "Podcast of the Day" from PlayerFM. Special thanks to Joseph McDade for providing our theme music.   

More than two million farmworkers do the hard, sometimes backbreaking work of planting, growing, and harvesting crops in the U.S. Focusing on strawberry and grape pickers in California, David Bacon describes what the work involves, where the workers come from, and steps they're taking to protect their rights and pursue justice. (Encore presentation.) The Reality Check: Stories and Photographs by David Bacon David Bacon, More Than a Wall/Mas que un muro El Colegio de la Frontera Norte, 2022 (Image on main page by David Bacon.) The post Laboring in the Fields appeared first on KPFA.

Steiny & Guru debate how much wear and tear the Warriors have put on Steph Curry in the past month and if his age and health is starting to show.

Featuring the latest in activist campaigns and struggles against oppression fighting for a better world with anti-capitalist analysis on current affairs and international politics. Special International Women's Day programPresenters: Mary Merkenich, Chloe DS, Stephanie MierischNewsreportsMary reports on the Melbourne/Naarm International Day rally on March 6 which drew hundreds of people demanding justice, safety, respect and equality for all women.The presenters discuss the prevalence of gender-based violence against women and why women-led campaigns against violence are key to challenging patriarchy. Interviews and DiscussionReihana Mohideen, long-time socialist and feminist activist and a leader of the Party of the Laboring masses, a socialist organisation in the Philippines discusses issues impacting women within the global south, how growing millitarism disproportionately impacts on women, and what genuinely internationalist feminism looks like. You can listen to the individual interview here.Sarah Hathway, former Socialist Alliance councillor for the City of Greater Geelong in Windermere ward, active trade unionist, social worker and Socialist Alliance candidate for the upcoming Federal Election discusses the political issues shaping the upcoming Federal Election. You can listen to the individual interview here.

We released this episode, “Black birth, laboring for justice,” back in October 2023. At the time, we felt this episode was crucial to make because Black women had the highest maternal mortality rate in the United States. The CDC actually called it a crisis. We checked back in with this crisis to see what's changed in two years, and learned that maternal deaths have dropped — just not for Black women. So, we figured it's time to press play on this. Again. Homegoings is a production of Vermont Public. Follow the show here.This episode was mixed, scored and reported by Myra Flynn with support from our associate producer James Stewart and editing by Brittany Patterson. Myra Flynn composed the Homegoings theme music. “Mama Song” was also written by Myra Flynn with production from Tim Sonnefeld. Zoe McDonald and Elodie Reed are the graphic artists behind this Homegoings artist portrait. The CDC is working to help stop this crisis and save Black mothers. If you are in need of more information or help, give them a call at 1-800-232-4636. You do not have to navigate this alone.As always, you are welcome here. To continue to be part of the Homegoings family: Sign up for the Homegoings newsletter Write to us at: hey@homegoings.co Make a gift to continue elevating BIPOC storytelling Tell you friends, your family or a stranger about the show! And of course, subscribe!

Join Susan on our podcast today as she shares her journey to a beautifully empowering CBA3C! Susan had three C-sections that didn't have anything to do with her body. They just happened to be circumstantial. All three of her births had been traumatic emotionally and did not go how she wanted at all. As far as making decisions for herself and doing what she really wanted to do, that was not present. But with her fourth baby, Susan had a lot of firsts. It was the first time that she was really able to voice what she wanted. She was able to make decisions out of peace and being educated instead of making decisions out of fear and being told what to do. That was the first truly empowering step in her process.Our mission at The VBAC Link is to make all births after difficult Cesareans better, and Susan's episode shows exactly that. Coterie Diaper Products, Code VBAC20 for 20% Discount How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello, Women of Strength. It is Megan, and I am joining you with my friend Susan. Hello, Susan. How are you?Susan: Hi Meagan. I'm doing great. How are you doing?Meagan: I am so great. You are from South Carolina, and at the time we're recording, even though this is now going to be in February, South Carolina has had crazy weather. How has everything been with you guys?Susan: Everything has been great. We're actually extremely blessed with the area that we are in. Initially, I thought it was something to talk about because I had a tree fall in the back of my house, but once I saw everything else going on in the area and just seeing the devastation that people had gone through, we are incredibly blessed with, the minimal damage with it just being a tree.Meagan: And this was Hurricane Helene?Susan: Hurricane Helene. Yeah. So all of our neighbors are pretty rough right now, so keep them in your prayers and help out where you can.Meagan: Seriously? Oh, we will be. We're actually recording right now in October, and today is the day that Florida is scheduled to be hit with another really crazy hurricane. So, yes.Susan: I've been thinking of Florida non-stop too.Meagan: Seriously, if you guys are listening, even though this is in February, oh my goodness, I hope all is well and everybody is okay.We do have our Review of the Week, so I definitely want to get into that before you share your four CBAC stories. We have people question, "Why is it called The VBAC Link, but then you share CBAC stories?" But I think the solid straight answer is because not every birth ends in a vaginal birth, and not everything always goes as planned. And you know what? Also, sometimes VBAC isn't desired, and CBAC is something that we don't want to forget about. In fact, if you didn't know, we have a CBAC Link Community. We have The VBAC Link Community on Facebook, and we also have a CBAC Link Community which is just the most amazing group as well. It's actually run by Paige, our transcriber, who I absolutely adore and just had her fourth Cesarean, which was a Maternal Assisted Cesarean. I still can't even believe all of those things happened. It's so amazing. But you guys, if you are looking for a CBAC support group, go to The CBAC Link Community on Facebook, and we'll make sure you get in. We have a review. It is by Jamie Poor. It says, "The absolute best." Thank you. That is so sweet. It says, "After having a scheduled C-section in 2016 for my son being breech, he flipped between 38 and 39 weeks, so he came as quite as a shock. I knew I wanted to VBAC for my next birth. Fast forward to 2019, my second pregnancy with our daughter, I found your podcast and obsessively listened to every single episode. It motivated me and educated me leading up to my due date. It even made me look forward to my long commutes to work. I hired a doula. I drank red raspberry leaf tea, ate the dates, did the Spinning Babies and really did all the things. And guess what? With the help and the education and advice provided on this podcast, I got my VBAC. I learned how to ask for what I wanted and advocate for myself with my doctor and when my body cooperated and went into labor, I felt prepared. My daughter was born in January 25, 2020, and I have to say her labor, delivery, and birth was the most healing, empowering experience of my life. Thank you, ladies, for providing this podcast for all women preparing for birth." Thank you so much, Jamie Poor, for your review, and congratulations on your amazing, empowering birth experience.Women of Strength, no matter how you birth, we want you to have a better experience. That is our goal here at The VBAC link to make birth after Cesarean better. A lot of first Cesareans are unexpected, undesired, unplanned, and do sometimes bring trauma. That doesn't mean even future Cesareans have to have trauma or be unplanned or be unprepared for. We want to learn all the ways we can make birth after Cesarean better no matter how that ends. Okay Susan, ending that review, we were just talking about no matter how birth ends. When you filled out your form, there was something that you said that things sometimes don't go as planned, but learning how to advocate for yourself and know that every birth is different is going to leave you feeling better. So I'm excited for you to share your four stories with us today, and I am excited to hear how you learned and grew and had better experiences with each one.Susan: Okay, so the first birth, I was 19. I was really young, and I didn't know a whole lot about birthing in general. I just did what I was told. I went to the hospital. I did what the white-coat man told me to do, and I didn't question anything. I was just a good patient all the way around. I had an amazing birth. I walked 8 miles before my induction date because I was a week over just trying to get things going and nothing was going. But you know how they are at the hospital. You know, as soon as you hit that 40-week mark, they want something to happen as soon as possible. So around, 41 weeks, I went "overdue" according to the medical standards. I went into the hospital and was super excited. They started the Pitocin drip, and my baby did not respond to that well at all. I was actually watching It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, and I was laughing so hard while the Pitocin was going that his heart rate actually dropped to zero, his fetal heart rate. I remember all of the nurses came rushing in. They were freaking out, and they were pulling on stuff and readjusting me. It was really scary. They stopped the Pitocin and then they restarted it, and then it happened again. So his fetal heart rate dropped scarily low two times. The doctor came back in and he said, "You have two options. You can probably go home and labor for days and days and days, or don't know how long it's going to be."Meagan: He made it sound hard though.Susan: Yeah. He made that sound not appealing at all. And then he said, "Or we can just go to the back and get a C-section and get this baby out." And I was like, "Let's do the C-section. Let's get him out asap," because I was just scared, and I was young, and I just wanted him to be okay. So we went back for the C-section, and it was a perfect recovery. I didn't really think much of it. I was just glad that I had a healthy baby.The second birth came along, and I was actually in a pretty tough situation at the time. I was faced with a choice of what am I going to do with my pregnancy? A choice that many women face. Whenever you're not in the most ideal spot to have a child at the time, no decision is easy. The decision that I chose for myself at that time was to do an adoption. I chose to go the adoption route. Whenever they had asked me about what I would want to do as far as the birth goes, I was just thinking of the adoptive parents and what would be best for them. It was a completely sacrificial thing that I did. I didn't think about myself at all or what would be best for my body or my health or anything like that. I just wanted to make sure that his adoptive parents would be there. To assure that, I just elected to have a repeat C-section. Fast forward a little bit later. I'm starting to learn a little bit more about natural birth and what that can mean in a woman's body and the benefits of it. I don't know too much, but I went to my provider on my third birth, and I mentioned, I said, "How would you feel about me trying to have a natural birth?" He just looked at me with disgust, and he was like, "Absolutely not. We're not gonna do that." I just really didn't know too much, and I just felt so defeated and like that really was the only option, and I wanted to do the right thing. I really didn't fight for myself. I think I may have mentioned it to one other person just briefly, and then I just dropped it. That was the third C-section. So at this point, I've had three C-sections that really didn't have anything to do with me or my body not progressing or anything like that. It just happened to be circumstantial. It really wasn't empowering. So far,  all three of my births had been traumatic emotionally and did not go how I really wanted at all. I mean, thank God the three babies were healthy, of course, but as far as me making decisions for myself and doing what I really would want to do, that was not present. So, fourth baby. So the fourth baby, I had a lot of firsts. So it was my first baby with the marriage that I'm in now. It was my first girl, and it was the first time that I was really able to think clearly and be able to voice what I wanted and be able to make decisions out of peace and being educated instead of making decisions out of fear and being told what to do. That was the first step that was super empowering in this process.Meagan: Yeah. I think when you start feeling empowered, that's where it begins, the second you start that. Yeah.Susan: Yep. So I went to my first appointment just to have the pregnancy confirmed. They were just pushing. The only thing they were really doing was making sure I got vaccinated. "Oh, your blood pressure's high, so you're probably at risk for preeclampsia." They're already putting me in all of these little boxes on my first visit. They're telling me to take aspirin because I had high blood pressure. I had high blood pressure, a lot of it due to white-coat syndrome just due to the trauma of being in the hospital. I was completely not at peace. I hated being there. I did not want to be at that doctor's office. And so I got in the car and I immediately am talking to my husband. We call his cousin because he comes from a family where it's really common to have home births and to use midwives and to use alternative ways. I was so blocked off that I really just couldn't see, but we started talking to his cousin and she was telling me, "No, this is actually totally possible. I know some midwives who are able to do it." I'm still clenching up with fear, but I want to let it go. I'm on Google and I'm like, "vaginal births after C-sections three times", and your podcast was actually the first one to pop up. I went on there, and I specifically looked up a story that had to do with a woman having a vaginal birth after three C-sections.  I just started to listen and my heart started to open and the fear started to dissipate. I was like, "I can do this. I can at least make a huge attempt to do it." And so I started to call different midwives and see what their availability was like. A good portion of the midwives don't want to work with you if you've had over three C-sections because they're contracted with the hospitals and are contracted with the state in some way to where they can't legally do that. It was really hard because I called around and called around, and either they weren't available or they just couldn't do it. But I finally found a midwife that was willing to work with me. Me and my husband met with her, and we sat down and talked. It was the first time I had ever had a conversation with "providers" where they actually believed in me, and they believed in my body, and they believed in my ability to give birth. It just meant so much to me to be looked at as a human and as a woman that can do this and not just as a patient who you want to push through and make money on and just get the C-section and be done and not have any risk involved. But there is risk involved having a C-section after three C-sections. There's risk doing it any way, and it's just like, what risk do you want to take?Meagan: Yeah. It's interesting, but what you were saying, "I just wanted someone to sit me down and talk to me like I'm human and have this feeling." I mean, I interviewed multiple providers, and it took me a long time to find that, too. That is what breaks my heart about this community. We have to go into these situations where we're searching for support that feels like a diamond in the rough.Susan: Yeah. And I want to just point out that even though this did end a Cesarean, and we all know that. There's no suspense there. There are so many points along the journey where I did have that healing. I did have that empowerment. It doesn't have to lead to a Cesarean in order to have that healing is what I really want my story to say. You can still make decisions and advocate yourself for yourself in a way where it doesn't necessarily have the VBAC.Meagan: Yes, yes, yes.Susan: Because I'm in the Facebook Community, and I see stories of women being so defeated and so sad when it doesn't end in the VBAC. I just want to inspire people that it doesn't have to be that. The empowerment can come in so many different forms. I was just completely elated after I spoke with her, and I just felt like it was meant to be. I loved her. I loved her energy. She had been a midwife for over 26 years. She had over 1100 home births and not a single maternal death.Meagan: Wow.Susan: Yeah. I just felt totally confident in her, so I went ahead and hired her to be my midwife. Just being able to go to her house and have the prenatal visits was so nice. That was another huge thing that was just amazing and not having to go to the hospital and fight every time. We did all of our prenatals there.She didn't beat around the bush. If there is an issue and I needed to address it, I would address it. I had a little bit of issues with my blood pressure, so I tweaked my diet and I was able to monitor that that way. Towards the end of my pregnancy, I had issues with my hemoglobin being low. I tried everything in the book, by the way, and the thing that helped me, just in case anyone's having issues with their hemoglobin, is I actually froze raw beef liver. I froze it, and then we cut it up into little tablets. I took this raw beef liver every morning because it gives you energy. Don't take it at night before you go to bed because you'll have trouble sleeping. But I took it in the morning and my hemoglobin went from like 9 to 11 within a week which was amazing because nothing else was working.Meagan: Yes.Susan: Yeah.Meagan: And I was going to say that frozen wheatgrass shots is another thing that can help with that. Yeah.Susan: Oh, I did not try that. I said I tried everything, but not that. Meagan: Liver and wheatgrass. Make a delicious smoothie.Susan: The things we do to stay healthy. So, yeah, sometimes people will try to make you feel like you're being irresponsible by not doing it the way that they've been programmed to do it. I'm just saying, it was totally responsible. If not, it was even more responsible because she may have picked up on things and was able to give me advice from a nutritional standpoint which is usually always the issue. It's something to do with your nutrition in your diet that someone in the hospital wouldn't tell me because all they wanted to tell me was to take an aspirin. Yeah.I went over. I was 42 weeks and 4 days, I think.Meagan: 42 weeks and 4 days?Susan: Yes.Meagan: Okay.Susan: So another thing I want to tell people, if you're planning on doing a home birth or doing a natural birth, even if you're planning on going to the hospital, I would recommend saying your due date is actually a month after it actually is to people just so you're not hounded at that like 39, 40-week mark because that was really hard mentally. Especially if you're planning to do a natural birth, it can be such a mental battle especially right there at the end and to have to deal with people know, being like, "Is she here yet? Did you have the baby?" It's just another thing to have to deal with. I would recommend saying it's a month after your actual due date. Yeah. I did absolutely everything you can think of to be the perfect student as far as home birth goes. I read every single book I can think of to prepare you for a natural home birth. I went into HypnoBirthing. I practiced the meditations and the exercises. I had the birth ball. I did all the exercises on the birth ball with my pelvis. I took all the right supplements. I did the pre-birth tincture. I was doing it beyond. People would try to talk to me being like, "You could die. You could bleed out," and I would cut them off. "I'm not having fear-based conversations. I'm not entertaining this. Yes, I'm going to do this because I want to do this. I'm not committed to this to the point of death for me and my child. If something goes awry I have no problem going to the hospital but this is what I'm doing. Leave me alone."Meagan: Good for you.Susan: Yeah. Yeah. So I was really proud of myself because they say it's like preparing for a marathon giving birth. So I really prepared. I had my mucus plug come out around maybe 42 weeks exactly. I was like, "oh my goodness, something's happening," because previously, I haven't experienced any signs of labor. I don't know anything. I've never had a contraction before.Meagan: Right.Susan: Even though this is my fourth child, I have no idea what any of this feels like. So I'm really excited. I'm like, "Wow, this is exciting." Actually, my water broke really shortly after that. I was sitting down on the couch, and I just started having gushes of water and gushes of water. I was talking to my midwife the whole time being like, "This is what's happening. There's so much fluid. There's so much." I had never had my water break before, so that was all new. I was scared. I was excited. She just reassured me. She goes, "No, this is just your water breaking." And she had told me that she's going to treat me like a first-time mom because I never have actually had a baby come through my birth canal. So a lot of times you can expect a long, strenuous labor when it's your first.Meagan: Yeah.Susan: So she said, "Your water has broken. That could either mean that it's going to speed things up and the baby will be here soon, or it could mean there's still a long road ahead." My midwife was really good about keeping my expectations very low as far as when the baby would be here.Meagan: Hey, I think there's something to that. We know that labor sometimes can be slower.Susan: She just didn't want me to stress out about it not happening sooner than later. She was just so good, so calm, so peaceful, and confident. I love her. She's the best midwife ever. I recommend her anytime I hear about people in the area wanting to have a home birth.I was starting to have contractions and then it would be like, go, go, go, and then everything would just stop. Because my water had broken, the chance of meconium was there. I had some meconium in my fluid, but it was yellow. It wasn't a high-alert type of meconium. It was just like, "Okay, we kind of need to get things going." So we talked and we decided to drink some castor oil. So I drank a tincture, the Midwives' Brew if you look it up on Google. I did that.Meagan: A lot of midwives will suggest that.Susan: Yes. So I did that, and it did throw me into really intense labor. We just got things going. I had my contraction timer going, and I had my sister and husband here. I really didn't want many people there at all at my birth. It's just such a private and intimate thing. That was just what I felt comfortable with. It would just be that. It would be a series of contraction after contraction, and then things would die down a little bit. I did every type of position you can think of. I went to the bath. I took baths. There was so much stuff I would do. I even found if I put my feet in really hot water, it would help take away from the pain of the contraction because I hate my feet being hot.Meagan: Oh, okay. Yeah.Susan: It would help me think more about my feet being hot. I would just do anything and everything I could to just help the process and help my body relax. As much HypnoBirthing as you do and as much meditation you do, every birth is different. At that point, I was like, "All of that is BS. All of that is crap." Hey, if it works for some people, great. I really tried to do it, but I had a lot of pain happening no matter what meditations or affirmations I was giving myself. I was talking to my midwife about that too. That's another thing I want to point out is that we all might have this vision of this really peaceful birth where the baby just slides out into your hand and you catch it and yay, everything is great.But also, I just want to everyone to give themselves permission to have a chaotic birth. If that's what your body needs to do, if you need to scream, if you need to shout, if you need to look like a hot mess, if your hair needs to be frazzled, let yourself do that. Sometimes just allowing yourself to let go a little bit can really help. I was laboring for three days.Meagan: Oh wow.Susan: I got to 7 centimeters dilated. I was so happy because my cervix was folded under.Meagan: Folded under?Susan: Yeah. So it was like a posterior cervix.Meagan: Oh, it was posterior.Susan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.Meagan: Oh yeah. It starts posterior and through the labor process, it comes anterior and aligns well with the birth canal and opens and dilates and all that. Yeah.Susan: Yes. So, by the time I got to 7 centimeters, that had finally come forward.So we checked myself, and I was 7 centimeters. My cervix had come forward, and I was so happy and I cried for joy. I was like, "This is it. I'm at 7 centimeters. It's go time." And typically, that's when they have-- what do you call it when there's that shift?Meagan: Well, active labor. When active labor kicks in, is that what you were thinking?Susan: Well, I had already been in active labor. But the shift when you're at the final stage, almost? Because you know how labor will get to one stage, and your body will adapt to that, and then it'll get to another stage and another stage?Meagan: So from 6 centimeters on is statistically like that active labor stage.Susan: Okay.Meagan: I'm trying to think of what other word you're meaning, but it turns into active. Transition? is that what you're thinking?Susan: Just the most intense part. Yeah. Maybe.Meagan: Yeah, so you transition into that stage. Susan: Yeah. Okay. So, I did not go into that transition. I stayed at 7 centimeters. And even though I was having extremely hard contractions, they were not productive contractions. There was a point where I was on my toilet because that was my most comfortable place to be. I felt the safest on my toilet because I was scared of pooping. That was a fear of mine, and I wanted to be on the toilet just in case.Meagan: Were you having back and butt labor at all?Susan: I was having some back labor. I mean, it was the most pain, and it was such a journey because  you're in so much pain, and you're like, "Wow, this is the worst thing ever. How am I gonna do this?" And then the contraction goes away, and you're like, "Wow, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful to be here. I'm so grateful my baby's almost here." And it's just an emotional roller coaster.Meagan: It is. Yeah.Susan: So nothing was really happening as far as the progressing. My midwife comes to me while I'm on the toilet, and she goes, "All right, Ms. Madam. Let's get your pretty dress on, and let's go for a walk." I looked at her like, "Are you crazy?" But I did it. I got my dress on, and I went for a walk through my neighborhood. I walked probably 2 miles, contracting throughout my neighborhood trying to get something going.Meagan: Wow. Susan: Yeah. And then I come back in the house, and there was two midwives there. One of them said, "If I could do my labor over, I probably would have just walked and walked and walked until the baby got there and would have tried my best not to be scared of the pain or let the pain stop me from really pushing into the contraction." So that's what I did. I started walking circles around my house, and I was telling myself, "No pain is too great to bear for my baby to be here." And I was even talking to my baby like, "Let's do this. Let's go to the next phase." I got to a point where I looked at my midwife, and I just said, "I'm exhausted. I have to lay down." I lay down, and I woke up, and my sister was lying with me. I started to just feel shivery, like really shivery. I started to get chills. It was just like I felt like I had nothing left in me. As soon as the shivers and the chills started, I knew I probably had a fever. I was looking at my sister and I just said, "I really don't feel like I can keep doing this." She said, "Well, is there something else on your mind?" I said, "Yeah, I need to go to the hospital." I'm about to start tearing up. The midwife came in and I just told her. I was like, "I need to go to the hospital. I feel like that the next step is that I just need to get in the car, and if on the way there I change my mind and I want to come back home, I'm going to give myself permission to do that."She goes, "Well, let me just check you, and let's see what's going on." It was 12 hours since my last check. It was 12 hours, and I was still at 7 centimeters. I hadn't progressed at all. I immediately just got out of my bed. I put my dress on. I don't think my husband was quite ready to go, but my midwife was, so I just started walking to her car. I'm like, "I'm going to the hospital now." I just had made up my mind, and that's what we were going to do. It was a very peaceful ride to the hospital. I had my little Depends on. She put a little pad under me. I remember asking her, "So has anyone ever peed in your front seat before?" Everything was just starting to get a little haywire. I just couldn't hold it in at all.Meagan: Yeah, yeah.Susan: We were just having a fun conversation on the way there. We got to the hospital. Well, the farther we got to the hospital, the more at peace I felt. The thought of going home was terrifying to me. As soon as we got there, I saw the nurses in the ER, and it was like beams of light were beaming through their heads. I knew I was at the right place. I got there, and they were just so sweet and so supportive. I still wanted to entertain the idea of having a vaginal birth if possible. It was just that I had to get an epidural because there was nothing left in me. I had nothing else to give in my body.Meagan: Yeah.Susan: I wanted to entertain that. And they go, "Well, yeah." They were like, "Were you hoping to have a VBAC?" And I go, "Yeah, actually I was hoping to have that," but I wasn't so committed to it to where I wouldn't have had a C-section. I already knew that I'm just going to do what's best for whatever the situation is after they assess me.But they were actually willing to let me have an epidural and have a VBAC. They were like, "Yeah, that's totally fine if that's what you want to do." And I was like, "Really?" And this was a separate group of providers that I had never experienced before. So yeah. It was absolutely amazing being talked to and being actually asked what I wanted to do.Meagan: Yeah.Susan: So they were doing all of my vitals. And as soon as I got to the hospital, that's when everything went berserk. My blood pressure skyrocketed. My heart rate went up. I was preeclamptic, and I was septic from meconium being in my uterus for that long. As soon as she was checking me, my daughter, Carrington, actually had scooted her head up a little bit to kind of show us what was going on, and the meconium was green. So as soon as I saw that there was green meconium, I was like, "Take me back for a C-section right now," because we all know that's infection. They were so relieved when I was totally fine with having a C-section. They gave me the spinal, and I just remember that being like the best feeling ever having no pain after being in such turmoil and in pain for so long.As soon as they pulled her out of me, she took another massive poop. So if I would have waited any longer, she would have been in that as well, and her chances for aspirating on it would have been really, really high. So yeah, that was it.I felt really great about the C-section. It was empowering because even up until that moment, I still was making decisions for myself and making decisions for my daughter. The decision that I made at the end was to save myself and her. To know that I made that decision and wasn't so committed to an outcome that I was able to make the right decision was like, "Wow. Yeah. I did that." Even though this is something that I wanted more than anything, I was able to let that go and save myself and her.Meagan: I love that you pointed that out of like, I had this empowering healing experience because I was really able to make the decisions along the way. You made the decision to get in that car. You made the decision to continue laboring. Then things changed. You made the decision to call it. And I think that is where a lot of the healing and growing comes from, is when we are able to make the decisions. The trauma, the fear, the hurt is when providers are coming at us and telling us what we are doing. "You are going to do this. I will only allow you to do this. You can if..." and then they give their restrictions. I think that you just nailed it on the head. You were able to make your decisions and be in control of your birth. And no, it wasn't the original outcome that you wanted. You wanted that vaginal birth. You were going for that vaginal birth. Things were really looking great, and when they weren't, you changed your mind. I just think, Women of Strength, take this with you today and know that you are in charge of your birth. Yes, babies and births can throw twists and curves and hurdles and all the things along the way, but you are the one who can make the decision for you. You do not have to be told what you do and do not have to do. Now, we also know that there are true emergent situations. There are true, true, true emergent situations where we maybe don't have a lot of time to sit and think and ponder and wonder what we should do and then follow that. It's just we have to say yes or no right then because it's an emergency situation. Susan: And being able to trust yourself that you are going to know if you need to call it and when to call it.Meagan: Yes.Susan: And that your intuition and your ability to just be in tune with your body and your baby is there.Meagan: Yeah. Absolutely.Susan: Yeah. And you'll know.Meagan: You will know. We talk about the intuition all the time. I mean, I don't know. I would say if not every podcast, probably every other or every couple other, we talk about this intuition. It is so real. I mean, Susan had this intuition. She felt it. She really did. Everybody listened to her. It's so important to be heard and to trust that intuition. So I applaud you, Susan. I'm so grateful that you were able to follow your intuition and be heard and call the shots of your own birth because you did deserve it. I am so happy for you. I know everybody else in the world cannot see your sweet baby, but I can and she's beautiful. I'm just so happy for you that you're able to have these experiences, and you have grown through each one.Susan: Mhmm, mhmm. And just the preparation of having a natural birth and what goes into it physically and mentally is worth it in itself to just give it a try if that's what you're wanting to do. And then allowing yourself to go into labor so all of your body's hormones are released in active labor, even if you do end up having a C-section, that's super valuable for your health and your baby's health.Meagan: Yeah, I was actually going to ask you that question. Yes, it ended in a Cesarean, but would you still have gone for the VBAC?Susan: Yes. I wouldn't have traded any of it for anything. I 100% would have done it again even if I knew what the outcome was going to be.Meagan: Yeah.Susan: Yeah.Meagan: Well, thank you so much for sharing your stories today.Susan: Thank you for having me here and thank you for doing this podcast and being in the business of releasing fear among women because it's like a pandemic of the mind almost.Meagan: Seriously though, we are being told that we have to be scared day in and day out. I mean, we hear these stories. I recorded a story earlier today and it was just like constant fearmongering every single time she was there. That stuff gets really tiring and it's hard to stand up to. But again, it comes down to education, learning these stories, learning your options, and then again following that intuition. So yeah, Women of Strength, you are amazing.Susan: Thank you. You're amazing too, Meagan.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

We have two beautiful CBAC stories for you on the podcast this week! Today's episode is with our friend, Melanie. Her first unexpected Cesarean was in April 2020 at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic. It was a very lonely and traumatic experience. Melanie found healing through a birth trauma therapist who helped her process her story and prepare for her second birth with a strong mindset. She took charge of what she could while making peace with what she couldn't control. Unfortunately, many things out of her control did happen, and Melanie faced another Cesarean. All of the healing work paid off though, as Melanie was not traumatized but empowered instead. “Birth stays with you forever. It's not something you ‘move on from'. My first birth was 5 years ago and still barrels me over from time to time. Likewise, the pride I feel in how I advocated for myself during my second birth continually gives me strength.”IMG_6660 (1) - Melanie Doyle.jpgCBAC Support - The VBAC Link CommunityBirth Story MedicineNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: This is actually the week that we are kicking off CBAC week. This week you'll hear two CBAC stories. If you haven't caught on yet, every month we have one week with a couple episodes that is a more specialized episode. So if you're looking for CBAC stories, this is your week, and we have our friend, Melanie, with us today.Hello everybody, it's Meagan. I have my friend, Melanie, with us today. Melanie is a 31-year-old mama of two who had two C-sections. While she struggles with birth trauma from her second birth, an emergency C section, it was still quite healing, she said. I love that you're talking about that. You still struggled with this, but it can still be healing. That was how I was. I wanted a VBAC with my second birth. I really, really, really wanted a VBAC, but it didn't happen. It didn't go as planned, and I had a CBAC. I walked down to that or and I had that second C-section, and it was not what I wanted. There was still trauma involved and lots of feelings, but it was still one of the most healing experiences for me. Weirdly enough, I think it's what he needed. I needed that to help me heal from birth one and birth two.So let's talk a little bit about CBAC, and how it can be as a mom who is wanting a VBAC and it doesn't go as planned. Do you have anything to say on that?Melanie: Sure. Thanks, Meagan. Yeah, I have a lot of things to say on that. Honestly, like you, I wanted the VBAC. I did all of the things to try to get that VBAC. I did the yoga and the teas and the stretching and the chiropractor, and the acupuncture. I did it all, and it didn't happen. It wasn't meant to be.I guess I'll get more into that when I dive into my story. But the CBAC was healing because even though I didn't get the outcome I wanted, I was much more empowered throughout the whole process than I was in that first birth. Through a lot of healing and therapy, I realized that it was that empowerment piece that caused a lot of the trauma from my first birth. It wasn't the C-section itself. That wasn't what instigated all of those feelings and all that hurt, but the way I was made to feel, the way I was treated the doubts and insecurities that were planted in me from that experience that took away my power. Even though I did not get that outcome in my CBAC, it undid a lot of that in a way. I was able to of regain some strength and some autonomy. That's lasted a lot longer. I think in this kind of healing journey, it's still hard sometimes. I still feel like I'm just barreled over by the grief that's wrapped up in both of those births. Even though I have two wonderful, beautiful, healthy children, it doesn't all disappear, but it did help me regain a lot of confidence in my ability to advocate for myself and know what I'm capable of.Meagan: Yeah, I love that you pointed out that, that it was a more empowering experience, and you felt more empowered. I really think that along these journeys, if we can be educated and feel empowered, even if it doesn't go the exact way we want it, and that doesn't even just mean Cesarean and VBAC. I didn't want an epidural, and I got an epidural. I didn't want Pitocin. I got Pitocin.Melanie: Right.Meagan: There are all these different things that can happen that we didn't want. But if we can feel empowered and involved and educated and like we are making the decisions too, and sometimes we can't make them. Sometimes our babies make the decisions, and that's frustrating. That's hard. It's like, well, what could I have done? And we go down these real big spiraled, spaces. But if we can really feel empowered along the way, even though we still might not agree with wanting, the outcome of what we wanted, we can feel empowered and have more healing to come.I wanted to talk more about that too, because we see this happen in the VBAC group where it's like, "Hey guys, thank you so much for being with me along this journey. This group has been amazing. However, I feel like I just have to leave now. I can't be here. I don't feel welcome here because I ended in a Cesarean." One, Women of Strength, I want you to know you are always welcome. You are always welcome. And you are incredible. You do. You were not less than anybody else just because you've had a Cesarean. And two, we actually have a CBAC group. I wanted to point that out to any mamas who have maybe gone for the VBAC route or even decided not to VBAC and wanted to have a Cesarean to go into that CBAC group. It is so, so special. It is led and run mainly by the very own Paige on our VBAC team, who is incredible. I just love that group so much. It creates this just abundant amount of love and support that I think everyone deserves. I don't want you to feel alone because I know. I was one of them. When I had my CBAC I was like, I can't keep seeing these people have these VBACs. I wanted a VBAC. I didn't get a VBAC. There were so many feelings, and I didn't feel welcome there. It wasn't even because they didn't make me feel welcome. I just didn't categorize myself as qualified to be in that group. Yeah, so check out The CBAC Link Community on our Facebook and know that Women of Strength, you are incredible. Whether you have a vaginal birth or not, you are incredible. Melanie: Okay, you guys, we're gonna dive into Melanie's stories, I should say. There are two. There are two stories. So, yeah, let's start with birth number one.Melanie: Goodness. So my first birth, my daughter, who is about 4.5 now, was born in April 2020. So it was right at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic lockdown which really set the scene in the most terrible of ways, as many of listeners probably remember, especially for anyone who had a baby during that period. I mean, it was so challenging those final weeks of my pregnancy. Every doctor's appointment I would go to alone. There was just new bad news being delivered to me about the restrictions that were being put in place. And I was very depressed. It was a heartbreaking time. Those final weeks of my pregnancy, I imagined nesting and being cozy with my husband before we had our first baby, and it was just all kind of ripped away like so much was during that period of time. I became really disassociated from my pregnancy and the joy that was meant to be coming. If someone had approached me on the street and said, "We can get that baby out now," I probably would have said, "Sure." I was really in a place of not caring, I guess, about what happened. I was just so desperate for this baby to be born before the restrictions got worse and before my husband wouldn't be allowed to be at the birth. So I was disassociated, I think, is the only way I can describe it. And then, of course, I went overdue because my kids don't come on time. This will be a recurring thing.Meagan: And with your first baby, that is also very common. Just saying. A lot of people carry over that 40-week mark, right?Meagan: Yeah. They don't tell you that when you get the handbook at the beginning of the pregnancy. I was overdue and was desperate to be induced. I went into this prior to the pandemic and everything, being pretty knowledgeable. I had attended a birth before. I had seen things go wrong and had originally had ideas about what I wanted my birth to be like. But at that point, I really was just desperate. The induction started really well. They placed Cervadil, and it kickstarted things like rapid-fire. It worked super well for me and I thought, "Okay, this might still be okay despite the induction. Despite all this, this might still go fine." Given the COVID-19 restrictions at the time, my husband wasn't allowed in with me until I progressed to a certain degree in my labor.Meagan: Wait, what? Melanie: Yeah. Meagan: Not at all until you progress to a certain point?Melanie: So around 7 centimeters, they were going to give him a call.Meagan: What was the difference of you being there at one point over the other?Melanie: Oh, it was tragic. So he waited in the car in the parking lot.Meagan: Oh, poor thing. Poor you. Melanie: So I was alone. And it was terrible. My contractions just came on so super fast because of the Cervadil. I started dilating really quickly and I thought, "Okay, they're going to get him in here. It's going to be okay." It Wasn't. I started to panic. I had not wanted an epidural, but I was obviously experiencing a lot of pain. They got the Cervadil out because of how I was reacting to it. The nurse asked if I wanted an epidural, and I said, "No, I'm okay for now. I'm coping." I waited a while longer, and I was still alone. They still hadn't called my husband, and I just couldn't do it alone anymore. The nurse talked me into the epidural, and I didn't want it, but I felt a little pressured. Yeah, pressured. That's the word. And again, in looking back on that, I recognize that a lot of the birthing people on the floor at that time were also alone. The nurses did what they could in those situations. But, yeah. I still hold a little bit of resentment, I guess, for those moments where I was my most vulnerable and by myself.Meagan: Yeah, understandably. That makes sense.Melanie: Yeah. So I got the epidural. My husband was allowed in shortly after, and things were still okay. I was still progressing fine. Then labor just stalled, which is the start of many stories. So we waited through the night. At some point, they started Pitocin. I was moving in all these ways. I should say that my doctor is a saint among humans. She's incredible. She was on with me all night. She did everything she could. She wasn't on when I first got admitted, but she came on later in the night, and she was phenomenal. She did everything she could to get things going again. And then her shift ended the next day, and somebody else came in. By that time, I had that pesky little cervical lip. My baby's head was OT. She couldn't make that last. I was 9 centimeters, but she couldn't get that last turn because of the tilt. I was swelling. There was meconium. Her heart rate was doing some wonky things, and off to the OR we went. I was okay with it initially.It felt like, "Okay, this is what happens." It was fine, really. I had a pleasant Cesarean experience. I wasn't nauseous. My husband was able to be there with me for the birth, and I had a lovely surgeon, so it was okay. I felt okay for the most part afterward.But again, because of the COVID-19 restrictions, my husband was only permitted to stay two hours after the birth. She was asked to leave and not allowed back until we were released. It was just me and my beautiful baby girl who was 8lbs, 9oz alone for 2.5 days after I was just recovering from major surgery.Meagan: Wow.Melanie: Those first few days were challenging. Breastfeeding was a disaster. A had terrible edema from all the fluids during the C-section. I was huge trying to breastfeed. I was just so puffed up. Everything was impossible. And again, because all the birthing people on the floor were without their partners, the nurses were run ragged. It was very difficult to receive care, to put it politely. I think honestly, a lot of the trauma that I have from that time came from my hospital stay afterward and how I was treated or how I felt kind of neglected and was again alone, in some of the most formative times of my motherhood experience. Meagan: Yeah. Melanie: So that was that really. That was my first birth. As the days progressed, and I got home and I just felt so defeated by and let down by how I was treated and not even how I was treated by people but by the situation. I mean, a lot of it was beyond anyone's control.Meagan: Yeah, that time, I have a lot of feelings. I was not a, mom birthing, but I was a doula supporting couples and saw a lot of really stupid stuff to say that didn't make sense at all. But everyone was so restricted and rules were changing literally by the day and even by the hour. Right?Melanie: Yeah.The hospital I gave birth that has since it kind of acknowledged that they took it a little too far. Laboring people shouldn't be alone. Who would have thought?Meagan: Women in labor should not feel deserted. Yeah.Meagan: So some of that was nice to hear but it was just a little too late for my own benefit. The more that all settled with me, and when we had our first baby, we didn't know down the road if we wanted more kids. I'm an only child. I love being an only child. So I thought, maybe a family of three is fine. But I remember sitting with my doctor at one of our follow-up appointments, and I just broke down by the whole experience and I was like, "I can't do that again. Regardless if I want to. I just can't." She was crushed by that. She just couldn't let me Live with that feeling. "If you don't want more kids, great. You don't. You do you. But that, that can't be how we leave you." So she recommended a therapist to me who has become one of the most dearest people in my life. She's also a doula. And all of her therapy practice focuses on birth trauma, infertility, infant loss, and things of that nature. She was a godsend once we decided that we were ready to have a second baby. I don't think I could have done any of the rest without her. So then moving on to my second birth, it took a while to come around to being ready for that. After that first experience, there was a lot of therapy and a lot of trying to recognize that what I went through wasn't my own fault.Meagan: Yes.Melanie: There was nothing. The choices I made and giving in to the epidural, that wasn't a moral failing on my part. Being alone wasn't that I was not deserving of care, it was just the situation of the time. So a lot of that took some time to reckon with. And then as I began, I knew right away that I was going to try for the VBAC.My doctor was, "Yeah, of course. If you want to 100%." She felt because I did labor so well once we finally got things going, she was pretty confident that things might go okay for me the second time. So she was a great support. But once I started looking into a lot of the VBAC literature in the VBAC world, there were so many pockets of it that I really struggled with. Some of the language around how we can prepare was really off-putting to me. It felt like if you know enough and if you do enough, you'll be okay. It just felt really focused on blaming people for whatever went wrong the first time, if you had known more, if you had advocated for yourself more, if you had breathed more or meditated more, things would have gone better. So I really tried to avoid some of that in preparing for my second birth. I was really focused on the things I could control. My doula/therapist/friend really helped me with a lot of that. A lot of what we focused on and preparing for that second baby was focusing on things that would be true regardless of how that birth happened.  I became really into this series of affirmations. That is not my thing. I'm not into that normally, but they became very treasured to me and still kind of are. I really prioritized creating ones for myself that would be true regardless of what happened. It wasn't about birthing my baby vaginally because that might not happen. I knew that going in. It was more about acknowledging that my body is strong and capable. That's true regardless of what happens. So those sort of sentiments really echoed through my whole pregnancy and leading up to the birth. For the most part, I had a pretty uneventful pregnancy except for the fact that in my 20-week anatomy scan ultrasound, they discovered that my placenta was low. It was partially covering my cervix. My doctor was great. She was like, "Yeah, don't worry about it. It'll move. We're not going to worry about that until we have to. That often happens. We're not going to let that slow us down right now".So that was fine. And then later in my third trimester, I was measuring gigantic. I'm a very small person. I'm barely 5 feet. I'm petite, and I grow big babies. I was measuring quite large. We re-screened for gestational diabetes. I had a weird borderline response. I was doing these funny diet things and trying to get that under control, but I was still measuring pretty large. But again, my doctor wasn't really discouraging about that. "I know people have big babies. The bony pelvis, it moves, don't worry about it." So I still felt pretty good, and I kind of loved the idea of tiny little me having this huge baby. it seemed like I'd be pretty proud of it. But I had to have a follow-up ultrasound to check on the placement of my placenta to see if it had moved enough. And it did. Fortunately, it seemed like it was in the clear. My doctor, who was lovely, indicated that this was not a growth scan. We were just checking the placenta. But of course, the maternal-fetal unit loved to check the size of that baby. So of course, he was huge. They were trying to really say, "Are you sure you still want to do this? Because he's going to be quite a large boy and all that." I mostly tuned that out. I was like, "Yeah, I know. No big deal. I know I can't do anything about that. That's not within my control at this point. I'm 32 weeks pregnant." We carried on as normal. At this point, I was going crazy. I was walking so much. I was seeing the chiropractor. I was doing prenatal yoga. I was curb-stepping everywhere. I lost my mind a little bit in terms of all the preparation I was trying to do trying to get everything right. I became super obsessed with the baby's positioning just knowing positioning had factored into my first birth. I don't think I lied on my right side for months. Basically, I was just really focused on trying to keep things where they should be. Get that baby low and in the right angle. It became a bit of an obsession, but also the thing I'd look back on in a really positive way. I got really good at feeling where he was trying to pick out a spine and what way he was facing. And in retrospect, it made me feel a lot closer to him than I had with my daughter in some ways when I was pregnant. I became very in tune to his movements.Meagan: Yeah.Melanie: So I look back on that and I'm thankful. But yeah. So things were fine. I was growing a big baby, but all seemed well. I felt like I had a great team who supported me and were progressing the way we wanted to. We kind of expected this baby would also be "late" just given my first was. So we kind of prepared for that. We talked about the ways we could induce if needed or how long I wanted to wait until an induction.At the hospital near me, it is standard of practice to be automatically booked for an induction one week past your due date. You get that letter in the mail regardless of whether you want it or not. So as my due date approached, I got that letter. I called my doctor. She canceled that. That was not our plan. We were going to wait and see. So she was great in terms of letting me make the call, I'll say. But at a week past, or I guess just a little over, I did have to have a biophysical. That was the condition which for me turning down the induction was to have the biophysical. And again, my doctor was great. She gave me the heads up that like, "It's pretty easy to fail these and you're 41+ weeks over too." So she was advocating for me that we were not going to jump the gun here. But it was the requirement of their unit to have that. So I went in for my biophysical at 41 and change. I can't remember the exact day. And lo and behold, we failed. I think we had a 6 out of 10. His heart rate didn't do the right things in the right order or whatever the scoring is. I can't recall. And he also didn't score for the seeing the breathing movements. I knew just from my own reading that a score of 6 was a gray area. I wasn't too worried about it. But the staff in the maternal field was like "Oh, well, you're having this baby today." I was like, "Well, no, I'm not. This is not my plan." I know they see the worst cases. That is their space, but I already had the conversation with my doctor so I felt pretty well-informed. I knew that I was not ready yet. I also knew that my doctor was on call that day.So I did go up to labor and delivery which is what they had recommended. She did another biophysical up there and then did a third non-stress test. I also failed the second biophysical but the non-stress test turned out okay. We needed some time, a bit of a walk, some water, and things seemed okay. So I went home and waited for another couple of days. At this point we were, we were really cooking. We were looking at 42 weeks. I did agree to have the induction on a Thursday. I was disappointed that we were going to have to have the induction. I forgot to mention this. I wasn't followed by an obstetrician during my pregnancy. I was with a family practice group. We don't have midwives in the area where I live, but we do have a family practice group who have delivery privileges but they can't perform Cesareans, obviously. So I was followed by this lovely GP who would have delivered had my babies been born vaginally. Because I had to transfer temporarily to the obstetrics unit for the induction, I knew I was going to  encounter some more pushback than I had faced to date with my current doctor because she was so lovely and supportive. I went in and prepared for that. And the OB on that day of my induction was quite-- I don't know how to put it politely. He was very blunt. I don't think he thought I was an overly smart person to be looking at 42 weeks still insisting on trying to have this very large baby vaginally. But to his credit, he respected my autonomy and was like, "Yeah, sure, we'll give it a shot. I think it's the wrong call, but it's your call to make." So I have a love/hate relationship with him to some extent. So they did another non-stress test and things looked okay. And then I think he left and a resident came in to start the induction. I was a little dilated, so they were going to try the Foley, which they had initially some trouble getting in. It was the worst pain I've ever been in that didn't compare it all to labor on my first. But that Foley was like, whew. As soon as the resident got it in, all hell broke loose. My husband was by my shoulder and just turned white as a ghost. The resident looks up and she's like, "I think that's a little more blood than we would expect." Meanwhile, I can just see it pouring onto her shoes. I'm just hemorrhaging. Meagan: Whoa. Melanie: I'm hemorrhaging. So she runs out. There's a nurse there trying to mop things up and I'm still holding whatever sort of contraption they used to hold the Foley in. The OB comes in with an ultrasound machine. They're, of course, fearing my placenta is beginning to rupture or whatever. So he's checking the ultrasound. The heart rate monitors plummet. The baby's heart rate drops into the 60s. The room fills with people and I'm petrified. I'm just shocked. The OB's trying to move me and trying to get the Foley out. It felt like an hour. I'm sure it was only a minute that the heart rate recovered, but the decision is made like, "We're going to the OR." They didn't know what the source of the bleeding was. I was still hemorrhaging. I asked the OB like, "Can I just talk to my husband for a minute?" And he said "No, we don't have time. We're going."So we go to the OR and it was really quick. It was so much faster than my first birth. I don't even think the terror really caught on to me until later when they finally gave me the baby and the OB ensured me, "Oh yeah, no. He wasn't without oxygen for any extent. He checked out okay. He's fine." And I'm not sure it hit me that that was ever in doubt that it could have gone a way that he wouldn't have been fine. So it was a lot. It was a lot. To say it wasn't what we were expected would be an understatement. To say I didn't get my VBAC was an understatement because it just became a conversation of so many greater things. Fortunately, my doctor happened to be in the hospital, and she took care of us. We only stayed there for a day. Fortunately, that was the main thing on my birth plan that regardless of what happened, to get me out of the hospital as quickly as possible. So we were released the next day. The baby was fine, and I was fine. We were all healthy. There was no great source of the bleeding outside of that they suspected that my placenta was still a little too low compared to how it showed on the scans from in my third trimester. So when they inserted the Foley, things shifted enough that it tore a teensy bit or something, and hence the blood, but not enough to cause damage to me or my son. But that, the proximity of my placenta to my cervix wasn't quite clear on that ultrasound in my third trimester. So, yeah, that's my birth story.Meagan: Oh my gosh. Oh, my gosh. You know, birth sometimes can unfold in those really wonky, unexpected ways. And like, I have questions too. Like, could they have torn your cervix from placing the Foley? Could the Foley have nicked your placenta if it was too low inside? Right? There are all of these questions, and we tend to go that way, wanting to know the answers, but sometimes we just don't know the answer. We've talked about this a long time ago in our radical acceptance. Julie and I did a radical acceptance episode, which if you haven't checked that episode our, I really highly suggest listeners check it out because sometimes there is not an answer. The answer is unknown and it will remain unknown. Sometimes not knowing the answer can consume us, and it can leave the trauma, the doubt, the fear, and all the feelings that come with. Sometimes that means we have to let it go. We're not getting the answer. We just not getting the answer. Letting it go helps us grow, helps us heal, helps us move on to that next stage.And when I say move on, I don't mean just ignore it, wipe it out, or it never happened. It's accepting that it happened. Accept that where we were then is where we were. We made the decisions we made with the information that we were given, and now we're moving on. You did the best thing you could do for your baby by saying, like, "Okay, yeah." And like you said, it didn't even happen or occur to you until later that, "Wait, my baby couldn't have been okay?" I'm sure that sat really heavily.Melanie: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, hugely. Right? It was. It all happened so quickly. There was so much blood. Again, you're on your back. You can't really see well, but when you see it just as when the resident leaves the room, and t's on her shoes. I'm not okay. There's a problem there right now, right? Yeah. And, you know, my son was big. He was 9 pounds, 15 ounces. I don't think his size had anything to do with this part of the conversation, but in my mind, I think I've somehow accepted that I think he was going to be born via Cesarean regardless of what happened in my first birth. My placenta was low right from the start. That was a known thing that I was going to deal with, C-section or not. I know there's obviously some evidence to show that the way placenta can attach can be influenced by previous C-section scars, of course. But, I think that's how I've been able to make peace with a lot of that. It was just always going to be this way for him. I don't know. Because I was empowered through some of the decisions I made, and because I felt genuinely supported by the people around me, except for maybe that kind of cranky OB besides him, it's much easier to come to terms with what happened. And in a lot of ways, even though, my second birth is the much scarier of the two situations, I don't have nearly as much trauma associated with it. It was a crappy birth. I'll be frank about it. But it is what it is. It was scary, but it's not what keeps me up at night sometimes still, like that first birth where I felt disempowered and disenfranchised and ignored and neglected. That is the lasting problem. While I've done a lot to overcome that, I think it just goes to show how we treat people in these moments can really have a lasting impact. It's not just about the physical pain, the physical trauma, and the health emergencies that cause trauma. It can be a lot of the emotional harm as well.Meagan: I love that you pointed that out and you mentioned this along the way with some of your prep you're like, "I am not the affirmation type. It's not my thing. I don't connect to it." But you did. I think affirmations are so powerful whether or not you are an affirmation person or not. I really think having those on your side can be impactful. Like you said, you're like, "I still kind of like, hold on to them and cherish them today."Melanie: I really do. I have a list of them on my notes app on my phone. They're the same ones. They were the ones I wrote when I was pregnant with my second baby. Sometimes when I'm having a bit of a bad day or when you see another one of those photos, like the people you referenced earlier who don't associate with the VBAC groups anymore, they don't see themselves every now and then, when a photo of a super strong, awesome person with their fist up in the air celebrating their VBAC. Some of those will just hit me the wrong way one day. I'll go back to those affirmations and remind myself that my body is strong and accomplished and whatever I need to hear that day. They do have a long-lasting impact. Another one that got me through a lot was, "I'm strong enough to face what comes." Whatever that is.Meagan: Strong enough to face what comes. I love that. Yeah.Melanie: Yeah, it's been a bit of a journey. My kids are 4 and 2 now. We're not sure if we're done.Meagan: Yeah.Melanie: But despite all of these experiences, I would still 100% go for another VBAC.Meagan: Yeah.So I was going to ask you that too. Do you feel at this point that you would rather just do Cesareans? Would you have said, "Looking back, I just wish I would have scheduled it at 40 weeks, or are you feeling pretty content and empowered with the choices that you made?"Melanie: That's a great question. I think about it a lot. I'm fairly positive I wouldn't have just scheduled the C-section. And partially because despite being alone for part of my labor with my first birth, I kind of loved labor. Before I got the epidural, I have never felt so strong and so awesome in my whole entire life. I was like, "I am woman. Hear me roar." Maybe that is just in retrospect, but I also have a couple of selfies from those few hours. I'm enjoying a lot of it. So when I was preparing for my second birth even knowing that maybe this will end up in a C-section, I kept thinking, "Oh, well, at least I'll get to labor again. I'll have that. That would be great." And I didn't. I didn't get any of that. I'm not turned away from that. I'd be very much open to trying again. I think if we were to have another, I would not do all the things I became so obsessed with making sure I was getting 12,000 steps or whatever it was, and the curb-walking and the squats. I did so many squats, and I ate so many dates. I would just let go of a lot of that because I think a lot of that was the pressure of, "You need to do everything you can to get this right." And I don't have that pressure on me anymore. Maybe because I'm older than I was then, or because I was maybe foolish. I think I know a little more, but I think I would just. Let's just try. Let's see what happens.Melanie: Yeah.Meagan: You know, I want to talk a little bit about that. You talked about how you did things that you could control, but then you also focused on how you went down that path of-- I call it obsession. The path of obsession.Melanie: It was.Meagan: I was once on the path of obsession as well with my second, my second that I wanted to VBAC that went Cesarean. I ate the dates. I drank the tea. I did all the things too, and then it didn't unfold exactly how I wanted it. I don't think the things that I did or the things that I didn't do, as far as the prep goes, really impacted as much as I didn't choose the right provider. But with my second, I let go of some of the things, but then hyper-obsessed with some of the other things. I didn't sit on a couch for nine months. I sat in a car really, really straight up paying attention to my sway back and my pelvis.But I did the things that I could control that felt right for me. I went to a chiropractor. That made me feel better. I was like, "All I can do is go and hope for the best. Right?" I drank my tea. I let go of the dates. I couldn't eat another date for a very long time. I do now. I actually add them to oatmeal and things, but I couldn't even stomach a date. There were things that I did and I didn't do. So try not to go down the path of obsession because I think sometimes it takes away from our pregnancy. Do all the things that you can do within your control that feel right. So eat well. Hydrate well. Get a good prenatal. Process your birth. Process your past birth. Know what you want. Hire a doula if you want to doula. Find your right supportive provider. But also, if it's too much and you need to be like, "You know what? I'm going to do what I can over here, and I'm just going to let it unfold over here," I don't think there's any shame in that. I don't think anyone should be like, "Well, but you're not doing x, y, z." Yeah, I'm not because right now it doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel right. Melanie: That's exactly right. I think I was just so afraid if my birth didn't go well, if I would think that, "Oh, there's something else I could have tried." That was, I think, my mindset in preparing for that second birth. But I'm glad you mentioned the feeling right because I did actually give up the acupuncture at 40 weeks because I hated it. I hated going. I didn't like the way it made me feel. It made me groggy. I felt like I was sleepwalking.Meagan: Not right.Melanie: Not right, but yes, letting that go. But again,  initially, I felt guilty for it. Almost like I'm not doing everything I could. But sometimes we need to let that go if it doesn't feel right for us.Meagan: Yeah, I agree.So really quickly, to wrap this up, we asked for a secret lesson, and then we asked for your tips. I wanted to read what you wrote. When I said, "What is a secret lesson or something no one really talks about that you wish that you would have known ahead of time when preparing for birth?" Your answer was, "Birth stays with you forever. It's not something you just move on from." Like we were just saying, it isn't. It's not just something that you move on from and you forget about it. It's just gone. It's not. It really does stick with you, and it can impact future births. So know that that's a thing, and you need to work through that if you have trauma. She says, "My first birth was nearly five years ago, and the trauma still barrels over her." Likewise, the pride that you feel and how you advocated for yourself during your second birth continuously gives you strength. So I love that secret lesson. I think it's very empowering.And then when I asked, "What is your best tip for someone preparing for VBAC?" There's a lot here, and I'm just going to read exactly what you wrote because so it's all so good. And you also kind of talked about it within your story, but I just wanted to write what you wrote. It says, "Preparing for a baby and birth is a mental, emotional and cognitive journey, not just physical. I did so much work with the support of a wonderful doctor, doula, therapist and partner that all helped me cope with this birth. I did chiropractic care, pelvic floor PT, acupuncture, yoga, massage, but it was the mental work and preparation that I did that really made the difference." And then you said, "If someone is into affirmations, find or create some that will be true regardless of whatever happens." Again, pointing out what you said earlier. I think it's important to note. Women of Strength, you can prep. You could do everything, and sometimes when I think we do everything and then they don't unfold exactly how we think, "We did everything. And it sucked. It failed me." It's not true. You did everything that felt right for you, and you have to embrace that and congratulate yourself for that and say, "I did what I could." But I love that you talked about the affirmations that can stay true. I love that so much. Your body is strong. No matter how you birth your baby, your body is strong. So, there's something that you did through therapy and healing that I would love to talk on before we go. Is there any way you could dive into that a little bit?Melanie: Yeah, sure. So it's a practice called birth story medicine. I'm not an expert in it by any means, but it is the train of schooling that my therapist, who's also a doula, specializes in with birthing people who have birth trauma. It's really a part of a birth story. Listening. So having someone reciprocate in the dialogue of your birth story, really similar to what goes on in this podcast in a lot of ways, where you are being heard when you tell your birth story. But through that process, over months and months of the telling and retelling of my birth story, particularly that first birth, my therapist was able to really help me get to a place of re-seeing it. That's when I began to re-see my role in that. It really centers around this idea that through discussion and through sharing, that can be the medicine we need to heal emotionally. So it's again, not always about those physical scars we're left with, but emotionally what we carry and giving value to those, having those be heard in a space where they're not often heard. When we go into a hospital or a birth center, we don't always create space or are not always given the space to have those feelings and that trauma heard. That birth story medicine approach really helped me re-see my experience for my first birth.I love that you talk about this. We actually have something similar in our VBAC course when it comes to mental and physical prep because I think that's honestly where our course starts as mental and physical prep. I truly believe that's where this journey starts. But I talk about the senses. So when we are processing our birth or going through this birth medicine journey, I suggest doing things where you write your birth story. Physically write it. Read it, so you're seeing it. So you're physically doing the action. Now you're seeing it and you're reading it. Okay? Read it out loud to someone so you're hearing it being said and someone else is hearing it. Receive validation. Okay?Really walk through those five senses because I truly believe that it helps you heal. But hearing it, seeing it, writing it, being validated. I guess it's not even the five senses. We can't smell our birth, but we talk about that like taking yourself back, putting yourself in that feeling, hearing those sounds, smelling the smells and processing those is so empowering. It's a little different, but kind of similar. I love it. I love that so much. Is it birth medicine? Is that what you're calling it?Melanie: Birth story medicine. I can't remember the woman who wrote the book quite literally, but I recommend everyone check it out.Meagan: We're going to find it, and put it in the show notes. Birth story medicine. Here we go.Okay, really quickly before we go, will you give us two or three affirmations that really stuck with you if you have them? If not, no worries.Melanie: Oh, sure. I still do. So one that I don't hold on to as much now, but it was really important to me leading up to that second birth, especially given my first was, "I am not responsible for starting labor when it starts." I tried, but I had to remind myself, "I am not responsible for starting labor." Another one was, "My baby will be born. I will birth my baby."Meagan: Yes.Melanie: However that happens, I will birth my baby. The final one may be that again, I think because of the trauma I had from my first birth during the pandemic was, "I am not alone. My baby is with me."Meagan: Love those so much.Melanie: Oh no, I'm very emotional.Meagan: I'm sorry. I did not mean to make you emotional, but I really thank you so much for all of those and for your words. I am so happy that you were able to come through on the other side of this experience with the mindset that you have. I know it's not easy. I know it hasn't been easy. The journey is really a journey and like you said, it sticks with you forever. I will never forget all three of my births.As of the day of this very recording, my daughter turned 13 yesterday. My first C-section was 13 years ago yesterday. Let me tell you, I reflected deeply. I had a lot of emotions. I cried. I smiled. I had so many feelings that it, literally makes me emotional thinking about it right now. But you guys, I was amazing back then. I didn't fail. I didn't fail. I think that's just so important that we know that no matter how our baby is born, we are going to be with our baby. Our babies will be with us, and we didn't fail. We did the best we could, and you were incredible.Melanie: Thanks, Meagan. You too. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In part two of this week's episode, Margaret continues her conversation with author Gigi Griffis about the most famous partisan song of them all and its strange and mysterious origins.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Margaret talks to Gigi Griffis about the most famous partisan song of them all and its strange and mysterious origins.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Join me for a more personal episode, sharing the story of how my little boy came into the world. I went in with high hopes of having an unmedicated VBAC and ended up in my second c-section, following 40 hours of laboring and 53 hours without sleep. Things did not go as planned, to say the least.Though this birth story is not what I expected to be sharing with you, God was so present amidst the wild ride of labor and delivery. I am prayerful that this story of surrender is encouraging to you, no matter what circumstances you may be facing in your life right now.  0:00 Introduction2:22 Prayer2:54 Going into labor on my due date15:23 My first hospital visit19:12 Laboring through the second night22:35 My decision to have a second c-section28:21 Finding out why my labor wasn't progressing30:02 The importance of surrenderScriptures referenced in this episode:2 Corinthians 12:9Links to other episodes mentioned:My Birth Story: From Natural Birth to Planned C-SectionKnow that you can always reach out with prayer requests or listener questions by emailing me at movedbyhimpodcast@gmail.com (or message me on Instagram at @movedbyhim_)!Did you know that leaving a 5-star rating takes only a couple seconds? If you are grateful for this content and are excited to hear more, a quick rating and review would be so greatly appreciated

For this final week of Advent, we discuss consider the theme of Laboring. What does it mean to labor? What does Christ's labor consist of and how are we to participate with him in his labor?    Text: Hebrews 10:5-10

11/24/2024 Morning Service – “Laboring For The Wind” by Jon Kile. Ecclesiastes 5:12-17

Ralph welcomes Vani Hari, also known as “The Food Babe,” to tell us about her campaign against Kellogg's to stop using artificial dyes in their cereals that have been linked to various health problems and have been banned in Europe. Plus, noted labor organizer, Chris Townsend gives us his take on the AFL-CIOs obeisant relationship to the Democratic Party.Vani Hari is an author and food activist. A former corporate consultant, she started the Food Babe blog in 2011, and she is the co-founder of the nutritional supplement startup Truvani.It is a game of whack-a-mole because we get these corporations to change, or they announce that they're going to change, and then they go back on their commitment. And that is what's happened with Kellogg's.Vani HariChris Townsend is a 45-year union member and leader. He was most recently the Amalgamated Transit Union (ATU) International Union Organizing Director. Previously he was an International Representative and Political Action Director for the United Electrical Workers Union (UE), and he has held local positions in both the SEIU and UFCW.These workers who have been betrayed, lied to, wrecked, destroyed, poisoned, all of these things—this becomes the breeding ground for Trumpist ideology. And the Democrats won't face this.Chris TownsendOur media largely ignores the labor movement. Our small labor press—left press—generally subscribes to the “good news only” school of journalism. So these endemic problems and even immediate crises are never dealt with. Now, some of that is because the existing labor leadership generally is not fond of criticism or is not fond of anyone pointing out shortcomings (or) mistakes.Chris TownsendWe're a cash cow—and a vote cow— to be milked routinely and extensively by this Democratic machinery… The leadership today in the bulk of the unions is an administrative layer, business union through and through to the core. The historic trade union spirit that always animated the unions in various levels is not extinguished, but in my 45 years, I would say it is at a low ebb. In the sense that we just have been sterilized because of this unconditional and unholy alliance or domination by the Democratic Party. And there's no room for spark. There's no room for dissent. There's no room for anyone to even raise the obvious.Chris Townsend[Leaders of the AFL-CIO are] basically bureaucrats in that building on 16th Street, collecting their pay and their nice pensions. Completely out of touch with millions of blue collar workers that have veered into the Republican Party channels—the so-called Reagan Democrats, which have spelled the difference in election after election for the Senate, for the House, for the Presidency.Ralph NaderIn Case You Haven't Heard with Francesco DeSantisNews 11/20/241. In his new book Hope Never Disappoints, Pope Francis writes “what is happening in Gaza has the characteristics of genocide,” and called for the situation to be “studied carefully…by jurists and international organisations,” per the Middle East Eye. These comments come on the heels of a United Nations committee report which found that Israel's actions are “consistent with characteristics of genocide,” and alleged that Israel is using starvation as a weapon of war. The Catholic pontiff has long decried violence in all forms and has previously criticized Israel's “disproportionate and immoral” actions in Gaza and Lebanon, per AP.2. On November 14th, the AP's Farnoush Amiri reported that more than 80 Congressional Democrats sent a letter to President Biden on October 29th, urging the administration to sanction Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich and National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir. Only made public after the election, this letter called for sanctions on these individuals “Given their critical roles in driving policies that promote settler violence, weaken the Palestinian Authority, facilitate de facto and de jure annexation, and destabilize the West Bank.” This letter was principally authored by Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro, and in addition to dozens of House Democratic signatories, was signed by no less than 17 Senators.3. Another remarkable post-election Israel story concerns outgoing Congressman Jamaal Bowman, who was ousted from his seat by a flood of AIPAC money. In an interview with Rania Khalek, Bowman relates a remarkable anecdote about the presidential campaign. Bowman says he specifically requested to campaign for Kamala Harris in Michigan – where he was so popular his AIPAC-backed primary challenger disparagingly said “[Bowman's] constituency is Dearborn, Michigan” – but the campaign ignored him and instead deployed surrogates that seemed almost designed to alienate Arab-Americans: Liz Cheney, Ritchie Torres, and Bill Clinton who went out of his way to scold these voters. These voters were likely decisive in Kamala Harris' loss in that state.4. On November 13th, Senator Bernie Sanders announced that he intends to bring Joint Resolutions of Disapproval to the Senate floor. As Sanders writes in a press release, the “The JRD is the only mechanism available to Congress to prevent an arms sale from advancing.” Unlike previous efforts however, Sanders no longer stands alone. According to Reuters, “Two of the resolutions, co-sponsored with…Senators Jeff Merkley and Peter Welch, would block the sale of 120 mm mortar rounds and joint direct attack munitions (JDAMS). A third, sponsored by Democratic Senator Brian Schatz, would block the sale of tank rounds.” Senators Elizabeth Warren and Chris Van Hollen have announced their intention to support the JRD. Certain heavy-hitting Democratic-aligned institutions have also bucked precedent to back this effort, including the massive Service Employees International Union and leading Liberal-Zionist group J Street.5. In the House, Republicans and many Democrats are pushing H.R. 9495, a bill which would grant the executive branch the power to unilaterally strip non-profit organizations of their tax-exempt status based on accusations of supporting terrorism. As the Intercept notes, “The law would not require officials to explain the reason for designating a group, nor…provide evidence.” The ACLU and over 150 other “civil liberties, religious, reproductive health, immigrant rights, human rights, racial justice, LGBTQ+, environmental, and educational organizations,” sent a letter opposing this bill in September, and celebrated when the bill was blocked on November 12th – but it is back from the grave, with Nonprofit Quarterly reporting the bill has cleared a new procedural hurdle and will now advance to the floor. Yet even if this bill is successfully blocked, little stands in the way of Republicans reviving it in the next Congress, where they will hold the House, Senate, and the Presidency.6. Back in October, we covered Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib's letter to Kroger CEO Rodney McMullen expressing grave concern over the company's decision to roll out facial recognition-based price gouging technology. According to Tlaib, Kroger has stonewalled Congress, so she is leading a group of House Democrats in a new letter demanding answers to the critical questions that remain, such as whether Kroger will use facial recognition to display targeted ads, whether consumers can opt out, and whether the company plans to sell data collected in stores. This letter is co-signed by progressives like AOC, Barbara Lee, and Eleanor Holmes Norton, among others.7. In new labor news, the NLRB has issued a rule banning anti-union “captive audience meetings,” per the Washington Post. This report notes that these meetings, in which employers warn workers of the risks in unionizing, are considered highly effective and are commonly used by companies like Amazon, Starbucks, Apple and Trader Joe's. According to the Post, Amazon alone spent more than $17 million on consults to do exactly this between 2022 and 2023. On the other hand, Bloomberg Law reports a federal judge in Texas has blocked a Labor Department rule that would have expanded overtime eligibility to four million mostly lower-level white collar workers. This was seen as among the Biden Administration's key achievements on labor rights and foreshadows the rollback of worker protections we are likely to see in a Trump presidency redux.8. Donald Trump has signaled that he will nominate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as his Secretary of Health and Human Services. Kennedy will likely face a difficult confirmation process; his past environmental activism is anathema to Republican Senators, while his more recent vaccine-skepticism is unpopular among Democrats. Yet just as Donald Trump emerged as an improbable RFK ally, a surprising opponent has emerged as well: former Vice-President Mike Pence. In a “rare” statement Pence writes “For the majority of his career, RFK Jr. has defended abortion on demand during all nine months of pregnancy, supports overturning the Dobbs decision and has called for legislation to codify Roe v Wade. If confirmed, RFK, Jr. would be the most pro-abortion Republican appointed secretary of HHS in modern history…I…urge Senate Republicans to reject this nomination.” As with other unpopular Trump nominees, many expect RFK to be appointed on an acting basis and then possibly installed via the recess appointment process.9. In some positive news, Drop Site reports that in Sri Lanka, the Leftist president Anura Kumara Dissanayake, who wrested the office from the corrupt clique that has ruled the nation since independence has won a resounding victory in the recent parliamentary elections. Reuters reports that Dissanayake's coalition won a “sweeping mandate,” with enough seats to pass his anti-corruption and poverty-alleviation agenda. More shocking is the fact that Dissanayake's coalition ran up the score in the Tamil-dominated north and east of the country. As Drop Site notes, only 15 years ago the Sri Lankan government crushed the Tamil Tigers and carried out large-scale massacres of the Tamil minority. Dissanayake has vowed to end the occupation and release Tamil political prisoners, as well as take on the International Monetary Fund which is seeking to impose economic control on the country in exchange for a fiscal bailout. Neither goal will be easily achieved, but the size of Dissanayake's victory at least provides the opportunity for him to try.10. Finally, AP reports that three of Malcolm X's daughters have filed a $100 million lawsuit against the CIA, FBI, and NYPD. This lawsuit alleges that these agencies were “aware of and…involved in the assassination plot,” and that law enforcement was engaged in a “corrupt, unlawful, and unconstitutional [relationship with]…ruthless killers that…was actively concealed, condoned, protected, and facilitated by government agents.” Two of Malcolm X's alleged assassins were exonerated in 2021 after an extensive re-investigation found that authorities withheld crucial evidence, per AP, and new evidence reported earlier this year by Democracy Now! supports the theory of an assassination plot involving collusion between the FBI and NYPD, if not others.This has been Francesco DeSantis, with In Case You Haven't Heard. Get full access to Ralph Nader Radio Hour at www.ralphnaderradiohour.com/subscribe

Laboring Under Pressure Episode 4: Obstetric Emergency in South Africa with Dr. Meghan Hurley Contributors: Meghan Hurley MD, Travis Barlock MD, Jeffrey Olson MS3 Show Pearls Map of South Africa Referenced South Africa Geography Lesson There is a big disparity between Cape Town and its neighbor Khayelitsha. Cape Town is the legislative capital and economic hub of South Africa, known for its infrastructure, tourist attractions, and developed urban areas. Khayelitsha Township is a large informal settlement on the outskirts of Cape Town, with limited infrastructure and services compared to the city center. Many residents live in informal housing. This disparity is the lasting effect of how land was divided up and populations were moved around during Apartheid. Apartheid was a policy of segregation that lasted from 1948 to 1994. How does medical education work in South Africa? Medical education in South Africa typically follows a 6-year undergraduate program directly after high school Registrars our the equivalent of Resident in America. They are graduated doctors who work in hospitals under the supervision of senior doctors as they progress toward becoming specialists. Pearls from the case and the discussion afterward Whole blood from a draw can be used instead of urine on a POC pregnancy test. Wait a little bit longer before making a determination because blood is more viscous. Although the casettes are not approved for whole blood several studies have shown this to be efficacious. Free fluid in the abdomen and a pregnancy of unknown location is a rupture ectopic until proven otherwise. Appendicitis can present on the left side. Most commonly from an extra appendix, but can also result from situs inversus or mid-gut malrotation. This presentation can also be the result of an atypically large appendix. Fever is common in appendicitis (~40%) and becomes less common with older patients. Don't be falsely reassured by a normal hemoglobin in acute bleeding because patients bleed whole blood and the hemoglobin concentration is not affected. These patients should be resuscitated with whole blood. Give rhesus factor negative blood to female patients of childbearing age to prevent them from developing antibodies to the rhesus factor which can lead to Rh disease in future pregnancies. Rhogam can be given in cases of ruptured ectopic pregnancies to lower the risk of alloimmunization. Blood transfusions carry the risk of lung and heart injury from the extra volume. The treatment for this condition is to diurese the patient. Other topics discussed include the complications of working in a South African township hospital at night, the epidemiology of burns, and the importance of global health.   References Akbulut S, Ulku A, Senol A, Tas M, Yagmur Y. Left-sided appendicitis: review of 95 published cases and a case report. World J Gastroenterol. 2010 Nov 28;16(44):5598-602. doi: 10.3748/wjg.v16.i44.5598. PMID: 21105193; PMCID: PMC2992678. Barash, J. H., Buchanan, E. M., & Hillson, C. (2014). Diagnosis and management of ectopic pregnancy. American family physician, 90(1), 34–40. Fromm C, Likourezos A, Haines L, Khan AN, Williams J, Berezow J. Substituting whole blood for urine in a bedside pregnancy test. J Emerg Med. 2012 Sep;43(3):478-82. doi: 10.1016/j.jemermed.2011.05.028. Epub 2011 Aug 27. PMID: 21875776. Moris, D., Paulson, E. K., & Pappas, T. N. (2021). Diagnosis and Management of Acute Appendicitis in Adults: A Review. JAMA, 326(22), 2299–2311. https://doi.org/10.1001/jama.2021.20502 Sowder AM, Yarbrough ML, Nerenz RD, Mitsios JV, Mortensen R, Gronowski AM, Grenache DG. Analytical performance evaluation of the i-STAT Total β-human chorionic gonadotropin immunoassay. Clin Chim Acta. 2015 Jun 15;446:165-70. doi: 10.1016/j.cca.2015.04.025. Epub 2015 Apr 25. PMID: 25916696.   Produced by Jeffrey Olson, MS3 | Edited by Jeffrey Olson and Jorge Chalit, OMSIII

More than two million farmworkers do the hard, sometimes backbreaking work of planting, growing, and harvesting crops in the U.S. Focusing on strawberry and grape pickers in California, David Bacon describes what the work involves, where the workers come from, and steps they're taking to protect their rights and pursue justice. The Reality Check: Stories and Photographs by David Bacon David Bacon, More Than a Wall/Mas que un muro El Colegio de la Frontera Norte, 2022 (Image on main page by David Bacon.) The post Laboring in the Fields appeared first on KPFA.

Message from Mike G on October 20, 2024

Scripture speaks to the call to be a laborer for the harvest, one in which there are only very few who answer that call (Luke 10:2). While there is much in the Word that speaks to planting seeds, bearing fruit, putting your hand to the plow, I want to spend some time talking about the depth of what it means to “labor” for the harvest. “Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground, for it is time to seek Yahuah till he come and rain righteousness on you. You have plowed wickedness, you have reaped lawlessness, you have eaten the fruit of lies because you trusted in your own way and in the multitude of your mighty men."Hosea 10:12-13We are called to labor for this harvest, to prepare the way of our King, and my heart breaks because I feel like the wickedness and lawlessness that has been plowed, sown, rooted and grown because of so many false teachings and traditions of men has created this “fallow ground” that Yahuah is instructing us to break up. As the Parable of the Sower illustrates in Matthew 13, before any seed can be planted on “good soil,” we must foster the conditions necessary for the seeds to be planted in the first place. Any good gardener will tell you that there's no use planting any seeds if the soil hasn't been prepared first. That's one of the main reasons why I say that before anything can be planted, the hardened, cloddy soil (our heart) must be tilled first, the weeds (the lies) needed to be pulled from their root, and the stones (the stumbling blocks) needed to be removed.To labor for the harvest is not just about planting seeds—it's about how we cultivate the soil of our hearts as well as the hearts of those around us. The call to labor will require you to get your hands dirty, the sweat of your work will be your tears, it will require you to rest, but we know that it will be worth it.“Those who sow in tears shall reap in joy. He who continually goes forth weeping, bearing seed for sowing, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him."Psalms 126:5-6Episode 20 TranscriptContact me: stephanie@promise-perspective.comVisit my website: www.promise-perspective.comSupport the show

You are working at Clerkship General when you hear a woman screaming from triage… It's baby time! Initial Vitals: HR: 120 RR: Shallow O2: 58% Critical Actions:

Contributor: Kiersten Williams MD, Travis Barlock MD, Jeffrey Olson MS2 Show Pearls Hypertensive disorders of pregnancy are one of the leading causes of maternal mortality worldwide. Hypertension (HTN) complicates 2-8% of pregnancies The definition of HTN in pregnancy is a systolic >140 or diastolic >90, measured 4 hours apart There is a range of HTN disorders Chronic HTN which could have superimposed preeclampsia (preE) on top Gestational HTN in which there are no lab abnormalities PreE w/o severe features Protein in urine Urine protein >300 mg in 24 hours Urine Protein to Creatinine ratio of .3 +2 Protein on urine dipstick PreE w/ severe features Systolics above 160 mmHg Diastolics above 110 mmHg Headache, especially not going away with meds, or different than previous headaches Visual changes, anything that lasts more than a few minutes RUQ pain, which could present as heartburn Pulmonary edema Low platelets, if

Enjoy the 6am hour 

Enjoy the 6am hour 

Lilias Trotter could have been one of England's greatest artists, but she chose the narrow road with Christ instead. Join special guest Miriam Rockness as she shares Lilias' inspiring story.

The Bible study given at Calvary Chapel Corvallis on Sunday, September 1, 2024.

“Trust your partner. Trust the mom. They know things better than you do.”Meagan's husband, Ric, joins the podcast today as they celebrate their VBA2C baby's 8th birthday! Ric gives the perspective from the partner's side of things as they both share details of Webster's birth story. He talks about some not-so-proud moments and is the first to admit how little he knew about how to support a VBA2C labor– especially one that went over 40 hours! But through it all, Ric came to understand the importance of doulas and how magical it can be to have not one but five doulas! He agrees that the births of each of their children ultimately was a special journey and brought the two of them closer together. Needed WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details 01:17 Review of the Week04:10 Deciding to birth out of the hospital06:35 Agreeing on a birth center10:57 PROM for the third time15:05 Laboring loudly20:23 Relying on the doulas28:33 Navigating doubt and transition on the toilet34:25 Pushing Webb out in three pushes37:08 Passing out after birth40:37 It takes a village42:45 Ric's advice to other dadsMeagan: Today is my VBAC baby's birthday. I cannot believe that it has been 8 years since that little boy joined our family and today I wanted to share or reshare his story. I know I've done it in the past, but I invited my husband, Ric, to share the story again for you and maybe I might just give him a couple of questions and see how he felt about it from his perspective. When we were going through pregnancy and preparing for me, it was just like, This is what I want to do. This is what I want to do. I would always go and say, “Hey, these are my thoughts”, and to be honest, I don't know if I even gave him a ton of opportunity to share his exact thoughts because I was so driven and just wanted to get this.We are going to dive more into his thoughts and his perspective on the birth because we know so many dads out there are also a little hesitant when it comes to the idea of VBAC because the world as we know it talks about VBAC in a very poor manner and it can be a very scary thought. So we will be diving into that today in just one moment.01:17 Review of the WeekMeagan: We have a Review of the Week so I wanted to get to that before we get into Webster's birth story. This is from Katiewarren11. It says, “I wish I would have found this sooner.” It says, “I love the show. I wish I would have heard these before my last baby. I was planning for a VBAC 7 years after my first baby and just thought it would happen. I didn't realize I might have to fight for it.” That just gave me the chills. It says, “I got to the week of my due date and my body didn't seem at all ready. Then they were estimating her to be 9 pounds, 12 ounces, and the doctor told me, ‘No option. You are getting a C-section.' After listening to these stories, I now know that there were other options.”Thank you, Katiewarren11, for sharing your review. I want you to know that you are not alone. There are so many of us who get to the point at the end of our due date. We are being told that our babies are too big or our bodies aren't working because they are not dilated yet or whatever it may be. There are lots of scenarios that people are told, but there are options. You have options and that is definitely what this podcast is about is helping you learn and grow and know your options. So thank you, Kate, again, and as always, if you have one moment, we would love to hear your review of the show. It really does help the show grow. It helps other Women of Strength find these stories and help them know their options as well. You can do that on Apple Podcasts. You can even Google “The VBAC Link” and leave us a review there or if you would like, you can email us a review and let us know what your thoughts are. We always throw those into our spreadsheet as well. Thank you so much. 04:10 Deciding to birth out of the hospitalMeagan: Okay, you guys. As I mentioned, I have my husband, Ric. Hey, hon. Ric:  Hello, everyone. Meagan: I'm sure he is just so excited that he is here. But really, I wanted to go through the experience from your perspective on VBAC and not only just the birth but also before and us deciding to birth out of the hospital. I was already kind of a crazy pants when we were trying to conceive because we really wanted a boy so I was really dialed into that. Then once we found out we were pregnant, I really, really just wanted to find someone to help me through the journey of VBAC. I interviewed many, many, many providers in fact, even before I was pregnant. We know on the show, I have talked about it, that it is really important to interview and look for providers before you are pregnant if you can but I ended up finding a provider actually just right after I found out I was pregnant or right before I found out I was pregnant. We went in and it seemed like a really great fit. Ric, you seemed like you were pretty on board with the provider shift at that point. ric: Yeah, I mean those who know Meagan know that when she is passionate about something, it is very unlikely that she will be turned away. Meagan: Convinced otherwise. Ric: Convinced otherwise so I just kind of went with the flow. But yeah, the provider seemed great. You seemed happy which was most important. Meagan: Yeah. And just kind of a quick little back summary, how did you feel about the C-sections? Did they bug you at all? Did they affect you at all? Did they just seem normal?Ric: Yeah, I mean, I didn't know anything other than the C-sections so it was normal. It was just that you were very unhappy with them which was hard for me. It was hard because I was stoked that we had the babies and you were upset with yourself, with the provider, and I didn't share those feelings because I didn't know. Meagan: Yeah, It was hard because like you said, we were so happy that we had our baby but I was in this cloud of doom and just and unsettled cloud. Ric: Dissatisfied. Meagan: Yeah, I was dissatisfied. 06:35 Agreeing on a birth centerMeagan: Okay, so we found this provider and everything is going really great. This provider at the time was the VBAC provider in Utah. Everybody went to him and he was amazing. He flat-out said after reviewing my op-reports that my pelvis was too small and my baby would probably never come out of my pelvis and that my body didn't know how to dilate, he really agreed that I probably just wasn't given a fair chance and he didn't understand why we wouldn't be able to go forward.But at 24 weeks, I attended a birth just before that with a midwife out of the hospital that blew me away. I immediately knew that I wanted to go talk to her which was kind of interesting because we never really discussed birthing outside of the hospital, but I went and met with her and I told you, “Hey, I want to birth out of the hospital.” Now, you knew nothing but C-sections. You were okay with me finding a provider, but how did you feel about the idea of birthing outside of the hospital?Ric: I don't think I was that excited about it. I was okay switching providers, but not being in the hospital was worrisome. I actually think, didn't you broach the subject on birthing from home? Meagan: I think I did. Ric: I immediately put the kibosh on that. Meagan: You were like, “No.” Ric: So I think when you initially discussed birthing outside of a hospital, you gave a couple of options of a birth center or a birth from home so I completely– that was too big of a jump for me from hospital to home so we went and did we go to multiple birth centers or just one? Meagan: We just went to one and we interviewed with a different provider than the one I met, but it was at the same birth center that the provider I met would have birthed at so we met with another midwife at the birth center. Ric: Right. It was awesome. Meagan: It was awesome.Ric: No, the midwife was cool too. She was great. Meagan: Yeah, she was really awesome. Yeah. So as we were there, did you feel like, Oh, okay. Once you saw it, did you feel more comfortable? Ric: Yeah, because it seemed more medical. I don't know the word for it, but it just seemed like, Oh, hey. Things looked sterile which was a big deal for me and it just made it seem like, Yeah, it's not the hospital, but– can I swear on the podcast? Meagan: Yeah, sure. Ric: –if shit hit the fan, then we were in a better circumstance than trying to find gauze and stuff at our home. Meagan: At our home, yeah. Which for those who are birthing at home, typically your midwives would bring all of that to the birth but we didn't even get there for me to explain that. Ric: I don't need to know if I would have even let you. Meagan: Get to that point? Ric: Yeah. Meagan: Okay, so then fast forward. Labor begins. Actually, we hired a doula. Ric: A doula? Meagan: Multiple doulas.Ric: You had these two mentors in the doula community here and you said, “I definitely want to hire them,” so we did. Those two mentors were in a group of three. Not only that, your really good buddy who became a doula at about the same time and had gone through the doula course with you wanted to attend, and then your cousin who is about as much of a doula as you can be without being a doula– Meagan: Seriously, yeah. Ric: Also had to attend the birth. Plus the midwife–Meagan: And the assistant. Ric: And the assistant. There were a lot of people in the room. Meagan: There were a lot of people in the room.Ric: Initially when you said, “Hey, look. We are going to hire a doula,” because you were doing the stuff, I was totally on board. I had no idea how many doulas would actually show up. Meagan: Yeah. Ric: But they did and it was fine. Meagan: It was great. And rewinding back, remember back with Lyla when I asked you if we could hire a doula or bridge that, you weren't super keen on that idea. Ric: I don't remember that conversation.Meagan: You don't. Ric: But I remember our nurse being a doula. Meagan: Yes. Ric: And she was awesome. Meagan: She was fantastic. Ric: And that solidified your desire to be a doula. Yeah. Meagan: Absolutely. 10:57 PROM for the third timeMeagan: Okay, so with all three of our kids, I for some reason have PROM. If you don't know what PROM means, that's the premature rupture of membranes. My water broke with each kiddo and my body took its sweet old time to kick into labor. They say only 10% of women will experience that, but we are 3 for 3. Ric: Do they know the story about where I was when your water broke with Lyla? Meagan: No, I don't know. That was another reason why I wish we had a doula. So going back to Lyla's birth, my second C-section–Ric: Kind of just showing the progress of where Meagan began as a, “Hey, look. I trust my doctors. I'm going to do everything that they say on the first birth.” The second birth opened my eyes as to how Meagan was going to control the situation as much as she possibly could. So yeah, tell them where I was when your water broke. Meagan: So you were in Texas when my water broke with Lyla. As he mentioned, my cousin is pretty much a doula without the doula training and she just is so loving and caring. She was really excited because we wanted this VBAC. I wanted this VBAC really, really badly. So yeah. Ric was out of town and my water broke. I was like, “Uh, you should probably come home.” Nothing was really happening at all really. I was just leaking. Yeah. You got home probably 6-7 hours later. Ric: No, it was about 10. Meagan: Was it about 10? Ric: Yes and I assumed you were going to go to the hospital. Meagan: Yeah, you were not happy when I was not at the hospital when you got home. Ric: I walked in and you were sitting there naked in the bathtub and I'm like, “What in the world are you doing? You are supposed to be in the hospital. Your water broke.” Because for me, your water breaks, you go to the hospital. For Meagan, that's not necessarily the case. Meagan: Well, yeah. I think going back to what you were saying, a lot of providers actually say, “If your water breaks, come right in,” even if labor is not going on. Through my research with Lyla and the VBAC, I realized that I didn't necessarily need to just run right into the hospital. I checked my vitals. All was well. Everything was good, so we stayed and labored at home. Plus, I was waiting for you to get in town. Ric: Yeah, but it kind of prepped me for what the next birth was going to look like. Obviously, that birth ended up in another C-section and you were really disappointed after that one. You worked really, really hard. Meagan: I was, yeah. Ric: Then with the next one, when you were going through options of birth centers, doulas, and midwives, that instance where I flew home in an emergency fashion as quickly as I could and came home to find you in the bathtub realizing, Meagan is going to do what Meagan wants to do. Meagan: Yeah, so when I told you, “Hey, let's birth out of the hospital”, did you feel like, She is going to do whatever she wants to do anyway? Or were you more comfortable with the birth centers? Were you okay with that? Ric: Yeah. It's hard to tell you no, but when we went to the birth center, I did feel significantly better about having a birth there. Meagan: Yeah. What had you heard about or had you heard anything about VBAC just in general? Ric: Nothing. Meagan: So you didn't really hear a ton. Ric: Other than what I heard from you. Meagan: So you didn't hear anything scary. Ric: No. Meagan: Okay, because a lot of dads out there do hear when they say, “Oh, my wife wants to VBAC,” people are like, “Oh my gosh. It's so scary.” I think that can be really hard especially if their partner is saying, “Hey. I want to birth out of hospital.”15:05 Laboring loudlyMeagan: Okay, so my water broke with Webb at 3:00 AM or something like that. Yeah, what do you remember about that? My water broke in the middle of the night. I don't even think I told you until I woke up. Do you remember anything about that?Ric: With Web, that was where you labored forever, right?Meagan: Yeah, 42 hours. Ric: I don't remember that first morning. I remember the next night. Meagan: Yeah. Ric: Didn't Hillary– Hillary is her cousin, everyone. Hillary showed up at 6:00 in the morning and you guys went out and walked around the neighborhood. Meagan: Yeah, so the night–Ric: The first night?Meagan: No, that was the second morning, yes. My water broke and again, I had PROM so I was so frustrated. I was 40 weeks and 3 days or 4 days. I had him at 40 weeks and 5 days. We had a visit with Danielle and my water had broken. I was sort of contracting a little bit here and there. I asked if you would come up to Park City with me. We went up to Park City and I went in and I did my regular visit and then she said, “You're going to Christine.” Christine, at the time, was my chiropractor so we went to the chiropractor. You got me a Jamba and we drove back down the mountain and came home. My body just really wasn't going into labor. It was taking its time so I went and I took a nap which is really hard to do when you are in labor because your mind is so excited and you just want to have a baby, but I needed to nap so I went in and I napped. It's weird. I can even picture exactly how our room was set up that day. I took a snooze and woke up and I was sort of starting to contract. I actually went out into the driveway and threw a tantrum. Do you remember me throwing a tantrum in the driveway?Ric: No. Was I working? Was I at home?Meagan: You were at home. I threw a tantrum that my water broke. I was triggered. I was like, “This is going to be the same. I'm going to have another C-section.” I was just so upset. I remember our next-door neighbor had this big pine tree and they were watching me throw this insane tantrum in our driveway. But yeah, so then that night, that's when you said you started remembering. My cousin came over for a little bit and actually, my doula came over and was doing some rebozo work and some things, but then they left and I really wanted to labor in my son's room, in our baby's room. Ric: Yeah, but wasn't Hillary there at that time? Meagan: She was for a little bit, uh-huh. You ended up going to sleep because you were super tired and again, labor wasn't super happening. I had Hillary there. We were just hanging out. That's when you came in with a pillow. Ric: Guys, so I mean, it's not a big house but we've got enough space where you can spread out so you don't have to wake everybody up with your– can I say moaning? Meagan: I was moaning. I was moaning to cope through. At that point, I was contracting. Ric: Yeah, so there were three bedrooms right next to each other, but we had a whole family room on the other side of the house and she could have done that and not woken everybody up, but instead– Meagan: I just woke you up. Ric: You were so loud though. You were so loud and can I make the noise? Can I pretend? Meagan: Oh my gosh, sure. But you are going to be dramatizing it. Ric: No. No. You exaggerate pain so much. Meagan: I don't think so. Ric: You think you are great at handling it but–Meagan: I am. Ric: You obviously are enough, but the way you are great at it is by being really loud. Meagan: Posterior baby, everybody just to let you know. Ric: I don't know what that means. But you were contracting every 5 minutes or so– Meagan: Yeah, every 5-8. Oh my gosh. Ric: That's exactly how it was and it was loud and you were in the room right next door to our two little girls and right across the hall from me so I was super frustrated because I was exhausted and I couldn't sleep and of all of the places you decided to labor, it was right next to everyone so I came in with a pillow and threw it in your face and said, “Muffle yourself.” Meagan: Oh my gosh. This was not the brightest moment. Ric: This is why you hire a doula because sometimes dads just don't get it. Meagan: Just don't get it. And you were tired. It was really late. Ric: You don't need to excuse me. I was being a complete jerk. Meagan: But this is why I love that it is from your perspective because in my perspective, I was not that loud. I was moaning for sure. I was coping. Oh my gosh. I had so much back labor, but yeah. It was so funny. 20:23 Relying on the doulasMeagan: You throw the pillow at my face. You walk out and you leave and Hillary, my cousin, was like, “Oh no he didn't.” She was laughing. So we continued. We definitely were just quieter. I don't know. Ric: No, you didn't leave the room. Meagan: No, we didn't. Ric: You were so stubborn. You were so stubborn. You probably were louder after that because you were so mad. Meagan: When you find a space where you want to labor and are coping really well, you stay. Then the next morning came around and one of my doulas was up in the canyon so she was not even getting a ton of messages and didn't have service. She was coming down and obviously the texts were blowing up so she started texting me and said, “Why don't we call the midwife and see? Maybe we should plan on heading there.” Like Ric said, my cousin and I decided to go walk. It was 6:00 in the morning and my cousin and I decided to go walk around the block. Man, my labor totally picked up after walking. We were doing curb walks. You go up and down the curbs. We were just walking and it was such a beautiful morning, absolutely beautiful. The birds were chirping. It was July 1st. It was such a great time of year. We actually had gone to the birth center the night before to go get checked. I don't remember if you remember that and they placed a Foley balloon which is a catheter that they can fill up with saline that pushes pressure on the cervix to try and help dilate so I think it was 1 centimeter or something like that. But it popped on the way, so nothing really happened. The next morning, we went in. It was 9:00 AM and we met everybody there. My cousin had left at this point. Maybe she had stayed for a little bit actually, and then my doulas were there so like Ric said, there were just so many people there. Do you remember arriving and anything about that?Ric: No, I don't actually. The part that I do remember is hanging out outside of the birth center with Robin who is my favorite and just watching her. She just had her hands on your belly and was just calming you down. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to rewind a little bit. We get to the birth center. She does. She did do a cervical exam and she said, “All right. We're going to stay. Let's go upstairs.” So we go upstairs. At that point, she didn't tell me what I was dilated to but I knew I was dilated enough to stay. For me, dilation was a big mental block because I had never made it past 3 before. I had never made it past 70% effaced either. I was told on my op reports. I don't know if you remember that day that I got the op reports and I was just crying and so upset, but I was told on those op reports that I was failure to progress and that my pelvis was too small. I was just worried about dilating but at the same time, it gave me some oomph because she said, “Let's go. Let's go upstairs.” So we went upstairs. I later learned that I was 4 centimeters which was huge and yeah. My baby just really was posterior and really having a hard time turning. We did the stairs. We walked up and down the stairs and like Ric said, we went outside and we went underneath this beautiful tree. I sat on a peanut ball or I sat on a ball and my one doula was behind me holding my belly. You were there and then I had another doula keeping me hydrated. It was just a beautiful time. It was a beautiful time. I really liked it. Yeah, then we went in and I feel like that's from the point we went in, it started getting a little bit more serious but you hadn't eaten. It was like, Okay if we are going to take a turn, we need to get Ric food because we are going to have a baby soon. Do you remember that you left for a little while? Do you remember leaving? Ric: I don't. No, I do remember leaving because that's when I came back and everybody had shown up. Everybody had shown up. Meagan: Everybody was there, everybody. Yeah, so you left which was nice that you were able to leave and decompress and maybe reset. Did it feel good to be able to leave? Did you feel nervous leaving?Ric: No, again, the benefit of having Robin there. Robin was kind of the main doula for me. She was always the one who would talk to me and make sure that I was doing okay which I was. Meagan: Which is good to know because I think that hours and hours and hours into labor, you could have easily been freaking out. Ric: Yeah, I don't know why. It was just calming. Meagan: It felt calming. Ric: It just seemed we had a bunch of hands on deck that could have handled any situation that presented itself. So yeah, I remember coming back. Did you move to the room with the bed? Meagan: Mhmm. I had. I was getting counterpressure. Ric: I walked in and there was Courtney, Robin, Hillary, Angie, Danielle– there were five. Yeah. Meagan: You said Courtney, yeah. Ric: There were five women there. Meagan: Surrounding. Ric: I walked in and there was such a relief. I didn't have to do a thing. I was like, I can just sit. Because I think I brought my food. I just sat and ate and watched as you were getting pampered. You were getting attended to by these amazing women. Meagan: Such a princess. Really, there was a point where all of them like you said, all hands were on deck. They were all giving me counterpressure. They were all doing something. After you ate, do you remember when I was like, “I need Ric”?Ric: Yeah, for some reason I've got magic fists. Meagan: You have strength. Ric: I basically punched my wife in the lower back over and over and over again. Just as hard and as much pressure as possible. For some reason, it worked for her. Those women are way stronger than a man. Meagan: They are so incredible. Ric: Yeah, but I remember we would go between there and the bathroom that had the bathtub. I remember for a second we filled up the bathtub. You hung out in the bathtub for a while. Meagan: Yeah. Ric: And just kind of sat there. You obviously kept working yourself up because the progress wasn't quick enough. Baby wasn't coming fast enough. You were obviously uncomfortable. Meagan: Yeah, it had been at least 35 hours at this point of being in that tub. Ric: Yeah, so you just kept trying to find the spot where you felt would trigger things for the labor and get the labor going. Meagan: Yeah, I was really trying to get that baby to rotate. I was trying to move. Every five contractions, I would re-position myself in that tub. Eventually, I got out. Ric: Yeah, we went back into the bedroom and that's when Robin pulled me aside– or maybe it was Danielle– I think it was Robin who pulled me aside and she was like, “Hey, you were very much in your own head and starting to doubt yourself.” Meagan: I was, yeah. 28:33 Navigating doubt and transition on the toiletRic: Robin said, “Hey, I think we need to leave.” Meagan: We might need to leave, yeah. Ric: No, no, no, no, no. Meagan: Oh, I don't know. I shouldn't correct you. Ric: She was saying that the girls needed to leave like all of the women needed to leave and it just needed to be me and you. So we hung out for a little bit longer. We went back into the bathroom. Do you remember fainting on the toilet? Meagan: That was after the birth, but yes. Ric: That was after birth. Meagan: So it was just you and I. What happened was you all went out and Danielle and I were in the bathroom and she did an NST on me. She was just checking on the baby to make sure he was doing okay and  he was doing fantastic. Ric: What's an NST? Meagan: A non-stress test. They did a non-stress test on him and he was doing great. Everything was great. We weren't having issues. I didn't have any fever because again, it had been many hours since my water had broken and I'm assuming that's when you were being talked to and then I remember Danielle taking the machine out, going out and you coming in. It was just you and me. I was on the toilet. I was facing backward– the dilation station– and I was really hot. That position is a really good one though. It really opens the hips. It just helps. So I was there and I had a backpack– or not a backpack. I had a pillow. Ric: You had everything. Meagan: Yeah, I had a pillow and then you were keeping me cool with rags and stuff. There were some pictures of you even touching me and just your touch was so amazing and did so much for me. I remember just absolutely loving it. I think that's even more of why I was like, “I need Ric,” for counterpressure. Yes, your counterpressure was incredible, but I just needed your touch too. Anyway, but yeah, we were in the bathroom for a bit. It felt like a little bit. Ric: Yeah, and you really started doubting yourself. Meagan: I really was getting down. She had just done an NST and she said the NST was great, but I was thinking, Whatever. They're going to transfer me. I'm going to have a C-section. Ric: The one lady had come in and said that you should transfer so a midwife who wasn't our midwife who was at the center–Meagan: With another mom.Ric: I think she was frustrated that we were taking so long. Meagan: She was. Ric: But she had mentioned the hospital word and that really set you off. Meagan: That really impacted me. Ric: You immediately started feeling doubt in yourself. Up until this point, I don't think you had. Meagan: In my head, I was like, Oh my gosh. This is taking forever and it's getting really strong but we're not getting anywhere. I was thinking that, but when she said the word– I remember she wasn't very great. Her bedside manner was not very great. She checked me and I was 6 centimeters which was great, but I had been just lagging. She was like, “I think it's time to go to the hospital,” or something like that. I think that's when she told the midwife and the midwife came in and did the NST. But we were in there and one of our other doulas came in, Angie. I turned to her and said, “Are they going to transfer me?” She just said honestly which I really appreciated, and I really encourage doulas if you are listening, to be honest with your clients. Honesty is so important. She just said, “They are looking at things. It's one of the things they may consider.” I was like, “Okay. We've got to do something here.” Ric: No, that's not what you did. Meagan: In my head, that was what I was thinking. Ric: You got really down on yourself. Meagan: I did. Ric: This is when I turned into super-Meagan. I was like, “No. You can do this. You've got this. You worked so hard. You've done everything in your power to have the baby here. Let's have the baby here. You keep doing what you are doing and it will happen.” That was the one time when I think I was the one who was pushing more for having the VBAC than you were and was it 5 minutes later when Danielle came in and said, “All right, we're good.” Meagan: Well, yeah. She came in. She had me turn around. Ric: You had been checked. Sorry, let's go back a little bit. Right before it was just you and I in the bathroom, you had been checked and you were like an 8.5 or a 9. Meagan: Oh, yes. I was a 6 when the other midwife checked. She had checked me right before. Ric: Probably a half hour past. Meagan: Yeah. Ric: Then right before we were left alone in the bathroom, Danielle came in and checked you and you were like a 9. I don't know what everything else means, but I don't think that Webb was in a great position though. Meagan: He wasn't. I don't know if you remember, but first of all, I was already having back labor. Now my baby was really low. I was dilated pretty far and I wanted to push. I don't know if you remember. I was trying to push, but they were like, “You're not dilated.”Ric: You thought you were going to go to the bathroom. Meagan: Yeah, so I was living on the toilet then she came in and I think that they had been listening. It really wasn't that long. Yeah. She checked me and what she did was she kind of advanced my cervix. I was 9 centimeters. My baby was posterior and she stretched my cervix over his head. Ric: Yeah. Meagan: She manually brought me to a 10. Ric: She assisted. 34:25 Pushing Webb out in three pushesMeagan: As soon as she did that, it was like, Oh my gosh. This baby is coming. Everybody flooded. Ric: She brought in the stool. Meagan: Yeah, she brought in the stool and everybody flooded in the bathroom. It was insane. There were so many people in this small bathroom. Yeah. I sat on the stool and you were right behind me. I think I put at least one of my feet on someone's shoulder. Ric: Courtney. Meagan: Maybe. Courtney was taking pictures. Ric: I don't know. Meagan: Yeah. I don't know either but yeah. I put my foot on someone and I started pushing. She was like, “Let's have a baby.” I still in that moment was like, No. It's not going to happen. This isn't happening. How am I pushing a baby out now? It was so– I don't know if it's euphoric but it was really weird. Ric: It was exciting. Meagan: It was super exciting but I didn't believe it. I didn't believe that what was happening was happening. Ric: I did. I remember they asked me if I wanted to catch the baby and then they asked if you wanted to catch the baby which because of where you were at on the stool, you weren't able to. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. I pushed and within one push, he made really great progress. He had rotated. He had rotated because I did not give birth to him posterior. He had rotated and yeah. It was one push with major movement. The second push had major movement then I just remember I was sitting there. It was really quiet and there was another mom in the next room also pushing. She was a VBAC and I was like, I'm going to have this baby before her. I made it a competition a little bit. It seemed like we were kind of on and off. When I was pushing, she was not. When she was pushing, I wasn't. With the next contraction, Danielle looked at me. I remember her eyes and I was like, It's going to happen. I felt it. I felt a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure. I pushed him out, pulled him up, put him on my chest, and I don't know. Were you crying? Ric: No. You were. Meagan: I was bawling. Everybody else I feel like was bawling, just all of the women in the room who had just gone through this whole experience with me, not just the labor but the journey of wanting the VBAC and then also as a doula watching me want this VBAC. So anyway, we were all crying and then you'll have to say. I don't know what happened. 37:08 Passing out after birthRic: Yeah, you passed out. I was behind you with my arms around you and the baby. You had been crying and with the emotion, with all of the hard work, you suddenly just went limp. So I had just told one of the doulas, “Hey, can one of you guys grab the kid because Meagan just passed out and we need to wake her up?” They grabbed Webb and–Meagan: Gave him to you, right? Ric: No. Meagan: Oh, really? Ric: No, I hung out with you while they had the baby. Meagan: Oh, I didn't know that. Ric: You came to and did they start? I remember they cut the umbilical cord. Meagan: Yeah, because they took the baby. They cut the umbilical cord. I saw pictures of you holding the baby and me on the ground. Ric: I was just focused on you because you had passed out. Meagan: I just assumed they handed the baby to you. Ric: Eventually. Meagan: Okay, yeah. So yeah. I don't know. I woke up pretty quickly. It was pretty quick it seemed like. Ric: Yeah. Meagan: But yeah, then I was just on the floor and I was just beaming and laughing and just so stinking happy. And then we went into the bedroom and I nursed for a while and was doing really, really well. They were like, “Okay. Let's get you to the bathroom and showered and then you can go home.” What happened?Ric: You passed out again. Meagan: I passed out again. Ric: Yep. You woke up on the floor. You had just sat up on the side of the bed and you passed out. This is when I did have Webb in my hands at this time and you passed out. Luckily, another doula had come so we had a fresh one, Rachel. You woke up laughing. You were like, “Oh, I'm on the floor again.” Meagan: I was like, “Why does this keep happening?” Ric: But you really wanted to go to the bathroom so we went. You and I just went to the bathroom. You sat down on the potty and you passed out again. Meagan: Yeah, and Robin came in. I remember waking up and you and Robin were right there. Ric: Yeah. We had to pick you up so we hung out in the birth center a lot longer than we would have. Meagan: Than normal.Ric: I think you ended up going to sleep. Meagan: I did. Ric: Because I was next to you and then Webb was between us. I was super worried about rolling over on him or you rolling over on him, but I think we hung out there for a couple of hours. They checked on him. They checked on you and then I just remember how amazing it was to go home that night. Meagan: Yeah. Ric: I mean, it was later. I think it was 11:00 at night. Meagan: He was born at 5:30 and it was like 11:00 that we were finally stable enough to go home. Ric: It was so odd to be told, “Hey, look. You can go home now.” He didn't have to wait in the nursery. He didn't have to do any of that. We were just able to go home. We came home. We had the crib in our room. We put him in the crib and we slept great that night. Meagan: Yeah, we did. Ric: He did too. He did awesome. I think he woke up once or twice to feed, but he was so calm. 40:37 It takes a villageRic: From my perspective, seeing you accomplish what you wanted and for those of you who are unaware, I told Meagan unequivocally that this was our last child, so this was her last opportunity. She wouldn't have had another opportunity after this. So it was really fun to see you accomplish what you had wanted to accomplish. It truly did. It took a village. You had so much help. We had so much help. I had no idea what I was doing and it was awesome because I had no idea what I was doing and everybody else who was there knew exactly what they were doing and they did such a good job. Meagan: Yeah, so obviously you would advocate for a doula. Ric: Oh, 100%. When people come up to me and ask what a doula is, I tell them it's what the perfect partner would be and how they would act and how they would treat their partner during birth. Meagan: Mhmm. Ric: So yeah, they were fantastic. Again, being able to leave and come back knowing that you were 100% taken care of– obviously, I had my spot there. I don't feel like I was minimized or my role was minimized at all. There were a bunch of times where you would have me step in when I needed to get in there and help, but I was able to focus on being there for you and they were able to show me, “Hey, look Ric. Here's where she wants you to push.” I remember that. You had showed and I think Robin or Angie said, “Hey, this is the spot where you need to push.” I remember when we were out under the tree, I was able to look at you because Robin was holding you from behind and that was a big deal because I remember Robin was obviously there and it was just serene having her with us, but it very much felt like a moment between just you and I because we were able to just sit there and be with each other and talk to each other. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. It just helped the connection and the bond and everything. I just love doulas so much. I love you and I am so grateful that we were able to have this journey together. 42:45 Ric's advice to other dadsMeagan: Do you have any advice to a dad who may be in the spot that I put you in? Ric: Yeah, I'm sorry. First and foremost, I apologize to you because that's rough. It's a rough spot to be in. No, honestly, trust your partner. Trust the mom. They know things better than you do and again, for us, it's really easy because you get your way 99% of the time in our marriage but seeing how things ended and how everything happened, it just showed me that yeah, I can trust her and I know that she's listening to her body and she'll know what needs to happen. Meagan: I love that you point out that I was listening to my body. I think that can be a hard thing for any dad or partner to understand because there is this weird, innate thing inside of us. It just felt so right to birth vaginally after two C-sections and then it also felt right to birth out of the hospital. So thank you for supporting me through all of that and for being there. I can't believe our baby boy is 8 years old today so happy birthday, Webster. We love you so stinking much. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands