Podcast appearances and mentions of mark kinney

In this special episode, we discuss the Pharmacists Fight Back Act and explore Ohio's pivotal role in advancing PBM reform. Join us for a compelling discussion with three distinguished pharmacy leaders: David Burke, Executive Director of the Ohio Pharmacists Association; Mark Kinney, Executive Vice President of Government Relations at the Independent Pharmacy Cooperative (IPC); and Antonio Ciaccia, CEO of 46brooklyn Research & 3Axis Advisors, our resident expert on PBM data. Legislative Spotlight: U.S. Representatives Jake Auchincloss (D, MA-04) and Diana Harshbarger (R, TN-01) have introduced the Pharmacists Fight Back Act to combat the detrimental practices of pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs), the intermediaries responsible for escalating drug prices, undermining community pharmacies, and restricting patient options in federal healthcare plans. This bipartisan bill represents the most comprehensive federal reform targeting PBMs to date. Key Provisions of the Act: Establishes a transparent pharmacy reimbursement model based on market pricing, aligned with the National Average Drug Acquisition Cost (NADAC) plus a state-specific dispensing fee, capped at either 2% or $25. Eliminates PBM-imposed restrictions on patient choice through network exclusions. Safeguards community pharmacists by banning PBM practices that steer patients to their own affiliated pharmacies. The scrutiny on PBMs is intensifying, as communities nationwide face pharmacy shortages, hindering access to care and driving up health plan premiums and out-of-pocket drug costs. With recent developments, including a House Committee on Oversight & Accountability report, hearings featuring leaders from the three largest PBMs led by Representative James Comer (R, KY-01), and the potential for a lawsuit from the Federal Trade Commission, the urgency for Congressional action has never been greater.  Tune in to learn how we can advocate for meaningful change! Guests:  David Burke Executive Director Ohio Pharmacists Association dburke at ohiopharmacists dot org Mark Kinney Executive Vice President of Government Relations Independent Pharmacy Cooperative mark.kinney at ipcrx dot com Antonio Ciaccia Chief Executive Officer  46brooklyn Research

DIR fees and PBM reform are the topic for this podcast. Mark Kinney is a government relations pro. Fresh from a week long trip to DC, Mark shares information on what's happening with DIR fees and PBM reform. The good news, Mark says, the momentum on Capital Hill is finally in our favor.

DIR fees and PBM reform are the topic for this podcast. Mark Kinney is a government relations pro. Fresh from a week long trip to DC, Mark shares information on what's happening with DIR fees and PBM reform. The good news, Mark says, the momentum on Capital Hill is finally in our favor.

Dave, Todd, and special co-host Mark Kinney bring you this week's edition of the Money Matters Show. We had on SAHBA president David Godlewski to talk about the housing market in southern Arizona. He shared a great deal of information and painted an in-depth picture on the current state of the housing sector. We also had special guest Anthony Figueroa who is with Heartland Insurance to help educate our listeners on the ins and outs of car, umbrella, and home insurance. This was an action-packed podcast that we know our listeners will enjoy!If you would like to contact us to learn more about our firm and our process call us at 520.544.4909 or go to our website at www.Greenbergfinancial.com or email us at Contact@Greenbergfinancial.com

 If you have ever wondered what government affairs executives do and how they affect the practice of pharmacy then you'll want to spend 35 minutes listening to this episode. Mark Kinney, a pharmacist, has more spent more than 30 years meeting with elected officials and other influential officials to help them better understand the complex and important role pharmacy owners play in our society. And, as you'll learn in this podcast, government affairs work goes far beyond PBM and DIR fee battles.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Session 243 - DnD 5e - A NEW story. Still on Zutain, but in the Axle Consortium in the Northern Hemisphere. That means new characters, and in this episode we start makin'em! A Combo of gabfest and stat rolling for a great session "zero". Blindgeek, Mark Kinney, Nikki and Andros gather for the creation as Anim5 tries to remember how it's done. Stories from these brandy new adventurers will be posting soon!

Session 240 - A laid back gabfest session with some dabbling into the coinage of Anim's brain ( d100 Lists.) Microphones, coin collecting, STAR WARS, Nerd Cred, the world's most expensive dice. Mark Kinney, Nikki, Blindgeek and Anim5. We were all over the place. It was therapeutic. Be a fly on the wall and press "Play". Try out the d100 tables. There's fun to be had. ;) BULLDOGS Part 3 Coming Soon!

Session 239 - BULLDOGS! by Galileo Games - Part 2 - Stuck in their home port before they even get their first mission, our class D space shippers must somehow retrieve the ship's data. It was SOLD by the captain. What's so important about it? The sold data contained their first mission! Nikki plays B''adass the Quartermaster, Andros plays K'neil the Pilot, Mark Kinney plays Skip Marx the Engineer, Anim5 plays Car Hole the Cultural Laison, Blindgeek plays Falik the Gunner and Trilobite Game Masters. Follow the crew of the "Diplomacy By Other means" as they traverse the seediest side of space port trying to strike a deal with people who are good at making . . . copies.

Session 238 BULLDOGS Part 1 - A mixed bag of alien social cast-offs sign up for a five-year stint of package delivery to the WORST and most Dangerous points of call and killer coordinates in the galaxy. Check out the Very beginning of our adventure, creating the ship, the captain and the crew of a "Class-D" shipping nightmare. Nikki, Mark Kinney, Andros, Blindgeek and Anim5 brainstorm the foundations of this adventure as game selections are made with oven mitts and tweezers. Expect a lot of rust, sparking wires and points of view on an EXTREME tilt! Futurama will look like Elite Special Forces compared to this bunch! Game Mastered by Trilobite!

James: Hey audience and listeners, this is James Kandasamy from Achieve Wealth Through Value Add Real Estate Investing Podcast. Today I have Rama Krishna from California. Rama has been focusing a lot on apartment purchases which is averaging around 30 to 40 a units and at the largest you have done were 59 units. So it's going to be very interesting especially for a lot of people who are trying to get into the game and also looking for like high cash flow as well, you're going to go detail on why sometimes the smaller deals makes a lot more money than larger deals. So hey Rama, welcome to the show.  Rama: Thank you James. Thank you for having me.  James: And one of the things that we want to talk about apart from going into Rama's strategies and businesses, we want to go into what asset manager can do during these Covid19 crisis that has been happening right now. Hopefully I can publish this podcast as soon as possible. But I'm sure it's going to be very relevant because it's going to take a few months for this crisis to subside I guess, it may take a few more quarters to fully subside. So Rama, did I miss out anything on your credentials?  Rama: No, not much I think. So just to kind of re-summarize, I am based out of California in the corporate Bay area of San Francisco, an IT professional. So just to recap like 90 seconds. I started like from real estate two years back started from single family homes and I always want to actually to do Real Estate but the problem is in Bay Area, really hot market. I cannot get any cash flow. It's kind of very hard to find deals and I didn't want to do out of state because I have a very stressful IT job here. I cannot travel out of state to do these things. I was postponing doing real estate for so long time, but three years back kind of pull the trigger, bought my two single family homes, one in Raleigh and Atlanta, that's where it started and quickly realized that I cannot scale with single family homes and got into multifamily, bought eight apartment complexes between 20 to 80 units. That's a more like a sweet spot for me. Like doing the deals. We can go further into that. One thing, we started, we didn't talk before is that construction projects, two new construction projects, 97 and 92 units in Raleigh, Durham, North Carolina. So they are like devalue adds, value adds and the new construction mostly into that existing apartments and new developments.  James: Got it. That's very interesting. I think we should just definitely talk about you and maybe do a separate podcast for the Covid19 asset management because there's so much of information that I want to get from you and I think the Covid19 thing is also very important. So that's going to be another podcast maybe before or after this. So let's go into details; the market that you have been focusing on that, I know we talk offline before this is Florida, Kansas City and Ohio, and you are sitting in California. At what point of your work, you are very stressful IT guy. I mean, I was a stressful IT guy too. What was that aha moment saying that hey, I better go buy something else or did you play around with stocks and realize stocks is not for you? So what was that aha moment that said that you need to go and focus on buying a multifamily apartments?  Rama: So I did two businesses, IT businesses, products and the consulting business. I did stocks, options and everything. It was a lot of active businesses, I need to be there, and I am really active, let’s say if somebody can start restaurants, like franchises, you need to be there in that actively. So you are there to be part of the business, then you cannot succeed in that. Even IT businesses or consulting or product development, everything is active here. Even where a lot of people have a lot of money from IT as freelancing or like full time jobs, but the problem is if they stop going Monday morning they cannot make money. That's the main part for me to getting into the Real Estate and then I bought these single family homes, I'm getting like $200, $300 for each single family home as a cash flow. But then I wanted to scale it, but at the same time I thought I cannot scale it. The problem with apartments at the time for me personally living in Bay area, these apartment complexes are so expensive. These are like 20, 30, 40, $50 million. I didn't even know that we can buy a apartment complexes. The two things, kind of the aha moment for me is we can buy apartments as a common man with syndication. Syndication is another thing. I was buying single family homes myself and I know a lot of my friends actually buying single family homes out of state. They buy in Texas, North California; they buy everywhere all the single family homes. But if you combined 10, 20, 30 people combined, we can actually buy larger complexes, larger commercial properties. That was a [05:17unclear] the syndication itself was an aha moment for me.  James: Was that from someone talking to you or from bigger pockets or you're talking about syndication or what happened? How did you find it out? Rama: I learned about this syndication with a webinar from Neil Baba, you know Neil? He was having this weekly or acting monthly multifamily fundamentals webinar. So two years back in November 2017, I had this is a webinar from him and the moment that I did the webinar, I first reached out to him Neil, I want to meet you, this is really good, this is crazy. Then met in a Starbucks in Fremont and I told him after this Neil I want to learn this thing. This is exactly what I wanted to do and he said there's a boot camp coming up. He would come in February and I said I'm going to sign up on that. That's when it kind of started, kind of working from single families to multi families.  James: Got it. What were the few key things in that discussion with Neil that you have was like, wow, this is suitable for me. What was your personal thing that you think that oh, this is very interesting for me. What are the aspects of syndication that was very attractive to you that you think [06:40unclear]. Rama: Three things, Oral apartments is a kind of a scale in the single family home model that what I'm thinking. I know the real estate passive income, but then I cannot buy a hundred, 200, 300 single family homes. The first thing is scale. The second thing is run as a business, like I did my IT businesses before. So apartments is also a business, you need to increase your income, decrease your expenses, and then efficiently run your operations. Make sure that you know everything like people management and you talk to your property managers and investors and your brokers and seeing like identifying this analysis, everything. Run it as a business. Third thing aspect is a syndication model itself. I have like hundreds of friends here and other acquaintances, old colleagues, a lot of people are high net worth individuals. If I can prove myself in this business, I can definitely syndicate and raise capital. So those are the three main aspects for me that kind of struck the card when was talking to him and also the fundamental thing, hey we can buy larger complexes like this. Like I was not even imagining the common man can buy apartments. Those are the three main aspects.  James: Got it. So now you're sitting in California, after you talk to Neil you come out and you already go to his boot camp. Why you went from California to Florida, Kansas City and Ohio? Which deal did you buy for us? Which state was that?  Rama: For my multifamily?  James: Yeah. Multifamily.  Rama: The first five deals, I bought it in Jacksonville, Florida.  James: Okay. Why Jacksonville, Florida? Why not Las Vegas or Utah or Texas? Or is it just that you landed there by luck? Rama: So I want to actually buy a multifamily in Raleigh, Durham and Atlanta because that's where I started. When I started researching about markets for my single family homes, with all the research I did, I picked these two markets, Raleigh and Durham.  James: Okay. What are the things you saw in Raleigh, Durham and Atlanta that were like awesome [08:49unclear].  Rama: Some of it I think was I'm reading all the articles and reading all the articles and everything with the technology stuff happening also there and jobs moving in, I didn't actually connect the dots at the time, When I did the boot camp from Neil then I was able to connect the dots and say hey, these are good markets. Then I was started offering on deals in North Carolina and Atlanta. Like none of them were pencilling out, like what is this? Even two, three years back it's not working out. I can't imagine now, maybe like with Corona, it's never kind of worked out for me because I never purchased in the last three years. When I started multifamily again I started looking into these two markets, Raleigh, Durham and Atlanta. I was offering ton of properties. I visited brokers’ network. Either the deals are like C minus, really bad locations or bad tenant profile. The income is bad, which numbers are working on but the thing is I don't know how to do the deals there or it's too expensive where it just didn't work out for me.  The vision for Jacksonville is when I was trying to expand markets from single family homes, I was looking at Austin and somehow actually got into Jacksonville because of the property manager or the property manager was actually offering, they do turnkey single families home as well. So I was talking to them doing due diligence, everything with them and making sure what kind of deal on single family homes that they can help me on, on rehabbing and the stuff. Then I suddenly like after talking to Neil, I said, guys, I'm not interested in single families. No, we have deals, this is like 60k and we have this 140k [10:39unclear] but they said okay we'll help you in multifamily as well. Let me know if you find any deals. We'll help you manage. That's when Jacksonville started and then they also kind of helped you and due diligence and everything. Then we'll look at a few deals together and we bought this 20 unit deal and that was on market actually, but it's the heavy lifting stuff like the roofs are bad, two, three units are down; it's really heavy lifting. I thought, okay, let me just get into it. The twenty unit is most like a cost of a one condo here. James: Looks so cheap when you look at California?    Rama: You know what I'm going to lose here, let me try it out but we made really good money on that. So definitely that's the good, I got the money from my friends and family first, not as syndication. It's more like a joint venture. A lot of my small multifamily is a joint venture. We can go into details how we've structured those. So that was very good deal. Look back right now. We did that and then quickly since I liked the market, I kind of learned about Jacksonville more. The more I know it's like a really hot market, then the found more deals in the end of that eight months to nine months and then they all are smaller, 20, 30, 12, 32 to 59. James: Syndication. I mean syndication; you can put larger money and buy a hundred plus unit or like some gurus say by start with a hundred plus. Why did you start with 20 and 30? And what is the driving motivation for that?  Rama: Neil actually encourages to start with small, he never said go more than a hundred units, but I'm part of a team of multifamily Mark Kinney. He suggest only a hundred plus units because of several reasons because you're putting effort on a 20 unit, it's the same as 200 units, go hundred plus. I totally believe it from a mentorship perspective, he's different. I did that because when I did my eight LLC taxes for last year and all the administrative work that goes behind these things. I would totally agree with Mark and also any other gurus out there that say go hundred plus units. I totally agree on that from effort standpoint. But there is money to be made in this 4,200 unit space as well. And a lot of people ignore it. There is definitely a possibility that you can put your operations hat there and your creative hat there to see how you can profit from it. You also know from the investor perspective as well.  James: Yeah correct. I started with the 45 units and I really love it just because you really learn a lot from smaller deals and you don't have to go much bigger deal and you forget, you cannot be like skipping elementary school and middle school and try to go direct to high school. I mean you can do it once in a while or when the market's so good but the fundamentals of real estate is really learned on the smaller deals, even with single family. You start with single family and you move to the smaller deals.  Rama: There are pros and cons. For example, the pros are you don't need to have payroll. The con is also the same thing. You don't have a staff and then your property manager may be sitting in some downtown office somewhere. They don't know what's happening at the 20 units or forty units. So you need to have very kind of a good property manager, even for a hundred plus units also you need a good property manager, but at least you have staff. If you can talk to them, hey, what's going on? Because the regional might not be at the site all the time. The regional might be like going once in a month, once in 10 days, whatever. But you have a staff day you can talk to, hey, what's going on leasing, what are the foot traffic? What are other strategies that you have always or do you have going on these units? Have you did the make ready? All of these things. There is a long [14:38unclear] clean you can talk to someone. But if there is a 59 unit somewhere in the west side of Jacksonville and my property managers sitting on downtown, they don't even know the pool guy's coming, they don't know that the lawn is not cut for the last two months. So there is good and bad, especially if you're doing out of state property manager, no asset management. That would be more difficult. But there are ways to mitigate that. Have a local partner in your deal that is onsite, on the ground goes once in a week or so.  James: Did you have a local partner there? Rama: One in Jacksonville but not in Kansas City and [15:2unclear] but now Jacksonville, I have changed my property managers, she's really hands on and she actually sits in one of our office. Jacksonville Unit has an office actually. So she's really good and now I can think of acquiring more properties in Jackson, I was thinking not be acquired more. But if you have really good property manager who is hands and kind of trustworthy, then you can definitely; these are really cash cows.  James: Yeah. I mean the people play the most important aspect in property management. It's a people business. So once you find a really good people, you are motivated. Rama: You are local or have a partner locally in the 40 to 80 unit game and it's definitely worthwhile to [16:08unclear]. James: Because it's not many people look at that space. I mean, the market was so hot right before, pre-Corona, I would say. Now we have to talk about pre-Corona and post-Corona.  Pre-Corona is so much of capital looking for deal and everybody just buy the bigger deals. Rama: Yeah, I do buy the deals in the three bands, James like 40 to 80, 80 to 160 and 160 above. 40 to 80 is where I do kind of deals with mostly JBS and then also syndicate patients deal where you don't need an onsite staff, we can operationalize and make sure that let's say if you have multiple 40 to 80 deals in the same market, you can actually have some scale within that. Have a maintenance person who I only see for properties. So 80 to 160 units where our focus primarily from a syndication perspective when we can have staff. 160 plus is an institutional level where the different companies move there, which I'm not going right now. But I would love to go 160 plus.  James: 160 plus, okay. I think that still does not answer [17:16unclear]. Rama: [17:17unclear] but at least you have a different set up [17:20unclear] James: Different level of people. Yeah, professional investors I would say maybe. That's good. Yeah. I mean so how did you structure this JB on the smaller side? Because you really don't have to do syndication for everything, I mean, if you have a few guys who are your family and friends who are willing to put some large money, you can just do a JB and explain to the audience how did you do that JB and syndication. Rama: Yeah, even if it is JV, I would want someone like they do perform some tasks. It's not that, you know, hey, like it's a JB and I'll do all the work. They allow us to have to do some work on that. Because they all structure James two options here. One, either I put less money and they put more money and everybody will have an equal share. Let's say I'm giving very rough example. I bought 50K and other people put 100K each or 200K each, whatever it is. And each of the 3% will be attached to person of the [18:15unclear]. James: Got it.  Rama: That's one option. The second option is I've also put 100K but all three people will put 100K into the deal, but I get 50%. They both get 25%. It's just very high level examples. Either I put less money in and take an equal percentage with the other investors or I put more money and take higher percentage. But same money as others.  James: All these deals you're buying in these different cities is it all value add or de-value add or cash flowing? How's that?  Rama: Most are value add as some are de-value adds as well. I'm kind of going away cookie cutter stuff, but the cookie cutter stuff, I'd still do it. But for the long-term part. That is more kind of relevant for a JV structure because for syndication I need to perform two to five years, I need to exhibit. But if I find a deal, which is really kind of a long-term goal and that is also good for this model where I don't need to worry about performing something in three to five years, I can even take a bridge loan and refinance it and keep it for longer term to the cash flow that's fine. If you don't get to cash flow, that's also fine. At least you can get all the rehab money from the lender and renovate it fully and then go to a permanent loan and keep it for like another six to eight years or 10 years.  James: Do you finance with the bridge loan in the beginning itself?  Rama: Yes. Yeah. Half of the loans I deal with now are bridge loans.  James: Okay.  Rama: Half of them are Freddie Mac. But see this is a de-value add. I know I can get all the rehab budget from the bridge loan. James: Yeah, correct. De-value adds make sense for... Rama: And then refinance it.  James: Got it.  Rama: So it's like kind of a cookie cutter or a little bit like value adds, I go with Freddie Mac loans.  James: Got it. Yeah. I mean the smaller ones has less competition. Sometimes you make a lot more money because there's no payroll and some people like my 45 units people just like to stay in a smaller community because they don't like bigger and the people, a lot of residents like a smaller communities, they don't need all these amenities. They just say we want housing.   Rama: Yeah that's true and another trend is happening, the build to rent. They're doing a medium density bill to rent the whole complex is for Randwick. So they built a town home complex or a single family home complex only for rent because we will be rendered national for some, and especially this post-Corona, it will be delayed like three more years, people will not be looking at home ownership. But at the same time, they don't want to live in apartments. They can live in a town home community or the kind of a little bit less density, a single family home community, maybe more density, single family home community. They're okay with that, right? Because they still have the pride of ownership. You have a better tenant profile and they can also feel that they're living in a regular home than an apartment complex. So the build to rent a town home and a single family home concept is growing as well.  James: So let's say you get a deal; every day you get a deal right now, I mean you're getting into brokers I presume. So what are the sniff test do you do on the deal? Because sometimes they list too many deals?  Rama: Yeah. I have my 60 seconds rule, 60 minutes rule and I don't know, 60 days like I see the more you go, you're going to spend more time on this deal. So the first thing I do is go to the justice map or CoStar just to see them demographics. For what is the median income and demographics mix on this and how the income is growing in this area. If that is a bad area I just... James: So every deal, the 62nd is that few steps go to CoStar.  Rama: Yes first go to; no, I don't need the CoStar, District Map is free. Just go to justicemap.org, just put that address.  James: What's that website called?  Rama: Justicemap.org. James: Oh justice map, yeah, justicemap.org. Rama: Just go to that, put the address you will see the census block. What is the median income, what is the demographics mix and how the income is changing. Then you will see the first sniff test and then I'll see the rents. Nowadays what I'm seeing is the average rent, like around $750 or about; I'm not going to C minus, C property, C plus or B. So I can quickly take a deal out, 60 seconds or less. And then next step will be go to the bond writing and see what the rent projections are, go to Rentometer or any other, I can go CoStar or Rentometer and see what are the rents. Are they below the market or not because I don't care about the rent growth, what happened in the next five, six years, what is in place rents and what I can achieve the market. That is where I focus. Let's say if it is $75, $150, $200 below, then definitely if it's like a C plus, B area, 45K or 40K median income and the demographics mix is good and everything, then I definitely go to the next level and traditional spend six days or not. Then to go to the 60 days. James: That's probably including the best and final and all that. Rama: Yeah every step that you go 60 seconds, 60 minutes, 60 days you're going to waste your time, effort, money on a deal. You need to talk to programs you need to visit, it adds up the cost, time and effort, energy.  James: Yeah. It's crazy how much work you have to do on progressively. So is there a lot of competition even on the smaller deals? Rama: There will be. Yeah. And it sounds especially previously that lasted two years, this competition for everything. But the 40 to 80 unit spaces, James, the smaller people cannot buy those and they still want a track record and know everything. They don't want to give it the deal to anyone. The bigger people are not interested in this because and the same thing that you said it's too much work. Definitely there will be competition but if you do a JV structure and especially you can do a long-term goal or maybe a tentative exchange because on a largest syndication it'd be 20, 30, 40 people. It's going to difficult to convince everyone, hey, let's do a 10, 31 exchange. So on a smaller deal if I get a 42 unit I know the JV people, like we have five people, so once we got a bridge loan, we renovate, and we’ll sell. Say if somebody wants to know by this thing, we have a bigger pool of money in the pot for the 10, 31 now we can from 42 units they can go to 80 units and then they can move to 160 units. I can spin off three fourth, 10-31 exchanges like that and quickly it can go from 200 to 800 units within two to three years or four years.  James: That's interesting. You can start from small and just doing 10 31 and start increasing. Rama: Exactly, on syndication it's not kind of very difficult. I have 40 investors, like half of them, hey, I need my money back. I let them say, let's just enter the one. Okay. Then it'll be difficult to coordinate this.  James: Oh, right. Interesting. Yeah. I never done a 10 31 exchange up until now because I don't prefer it so much because I'm worried that it costs me to buy the wrong deals. Because all sellers love 10-31 buyers. Rama: TO be active, don't disclose that you're a 10-31 buyer. Have those deal flow, you need to be really active. Every time I have four to five, six deals, then I can pick the right one. Hey, I'm not going to go wrong on this because it's a B property, eighties construction. What are the criteria that you have? The rents are like a hundred dollars lower. I'm okay to even or pay 100K - 200K on this because on the 10-31 you want to certain the deal, you want certain to close it. So picking the right property and make sure you're doing the due diligence and then do the 10-31 because yeah. So worst case, you'd pay taxes and it's not like another wall. It's better than going in the bad deal.  James: Correct. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. So tell me about your value add strategy. Do you do interior, exterior and from deck and you define what's the most valuable value add that you have seen? Rama: No, I do de-value add, like if the roofs are leaking, like falling down we get a new roof and completely renovating the units to top-notch, [26:57unclear] dollars also into the C properties. I think the thing is weird to see the holistic picture. There is no one specific thing that I do, which is the most value add, just turning it on the property to create the maximum value out of this. Like if it is a exceeded deferred maintenance, the problem with deferred maintenance is you don't get any rent bump if I change my roof. But you need to make sure that you negotiate the deal. Okay. Hey, this has a roof issue and if you're paying the market price, but for a de-value add that doesn't make sense. If there is an exterior deferred maintenance I would love to know everything in place and only do the interior value add. That is the best thing to do if I can get, but I'm not afraid of de-value adds. I did full redevelopments also I'm doing new construction as well, so whatever the maximum value that you can out of the property on the rent. That is what I looked into it.  James: Got it. So that's very interesting. So tell me about yourself. I mean so you are an engineer and you are doing real estate right now, where do you see yourself in the next five to 10 years? Pre-Corona or post-Corona? Rama: If we didn't have the same conversation January James, I was thinking I would retire in 2020. Like I had two deals. I was about to go under contract at backdoor on one day I was at the deal also I'm at 80% on the fence to back out. Completely changes. So things like this, you go back to the square one, go back to the drawing board or go back to school. . Then rethink your strategies. Yeah, definitely. De-value adds and new construction. I want to get maximum value out of it. Cookie cutter. I'm like mostly ignoring, but if I can do long-term goal, I'm okay with cookie cutter. If not that I can get out three to five years and do this like kind of churn. It's just a lot of work. A lot of people think when you're just come into syndication or a multifamily, it is a passive income. This is not passive income at all, like zero. For investors, yes. So I would continue doing what I'm doing, but it'd be more conservative. The new rules. The rules have changed.  James: The rules have changed. Yeah.  Rama: The playing field changed. The game is changed. Everything is changed. But the fundamentals remain the same. We will be renters’ nation. The multifamily will not go away. People need place to live. The next one year will be a little bit at least six months to one year. It will be tough in the operations perspective, fully focusing on operations on what I have and I'll continue the story, but the story now will be much better. You will see what is the need for passive income now you know better. Things might change. People are getting laid off. So you need to get your passive income streams. The story becomes stronger now and nothing changed in that perspective. James: Correct. Correct. Also in the stocks market you can lose your money, but in a brick and mortar real estate, you don't really lose the money. Rama: The capital is reserved, you have a hard asset. You can go and touch, feel it, and then that's not going anywhere. You might have instead of 8% returns, you might have 2% returns or 1% returns, at least your capital is reserved. Stock markets you're bidding down like crazy there. You're losing half of your money or more than half of your money. So the story got better and maybe easier to pass on this thing. But there might be challenges raising capital in the next few months because people might have lost money in stock or lost their job, whatever it is. But eventually it will come back. The people will remember this. They know the value of passive income more than before. I'll continue the value adds, the de-value adds and new construction strategies into the multifamily.  James: Got it. Is there a proud moment in your life that you think you're really, really proud that you cannot forget? I mean, until now, I mean, of course you're going to do a lot more things right, but until now when you started this business. Rama: Yeah. The first 20 unit deal, when we actually renovated this thing, I really felt happy. It was actually really bad property. The roofs were really leaking and everything; the tenants were bad, the backyard, everything was all trashed and completely, we re-profiled this thing. We did maybe more than 70% returns on that. The manufacturer, that's one thing. Overall the transformation that you do kind of really was proud moment for me and also the land development deals that I'm doing. It was 18 months of effort for us to get these 97 units a town home project, we closed it in February. So I was really proud of that new development site.  James: Got it. So you're like moving from one domain to another domain. That must be a happy moment. Why did you move to development?  Rama: As I said, I like this North Carolina, Austin, Atlanta hot markets because I would rather do it in this market, but there are no deals out there in a sense too expensive. You know Austin? All seventies and eighties property itself is so expensive. I would rather build new but there are unknowns. There are risks for new construction. It's not that easy to hazard zone. James: [32:54unclear] building, if it's [32:57unclear]. Rama: Everybody will be building, it has its own staff but overall I want to be patient to find the right deals and find the right construction partners, find the right type of investors. Not everybody will be interested in new development. You want cash flow. You're not going to get cash flow. There are a lot of risk also. You might lose your capital also in that because there are no assets.  James: You have to go to so many entitlement process and city approvals and all that.  Rama: Exactly, there are red tapes involved, there are so many things involved but I would in a market like Austin or North Carolina I would rather to build than buy a seventies or eighties product. That was the main reason for me to get into new development because I liked the market, what I can do in this market because I love North Carolina, I love Austin, I love North Atlanta. What I can do in these markets from a Real Estate perspective, the only answer for me is the new development.  James: Got it. Interesting. So tell our audience how to get hold of you? Rama: Yeah, you can reach out on my website is zovest.com; you can reach out at rama@zovest.com and I'm active in a lot of Facebook groups, you can reach out to me there as well.  James: Awesome. Thanks Rama for coming in. Happy to have you here and happy that you add a lot of value to our listeners. Thank you.  Rama: Thank you, James. Thank you for having me.

Session 232 - KINTSUGI - Magical Golems! What happens when Magical Golems ( Nikki, Andros, Mark Kinney and Anim5 ) try to escape a mad wizard's tower using only their limited wits and fickle dice rolls? Results include spiral slides, Public Spirited Safety-Tour Guides and walls of CAKE. Do they succeed despite battling armies in their way? Listen to this funtastic One-Shot run by Trilobite and find out!

Session 232 - Over the Wall - The party needs to get out of Die-Trine, but they can't just waltz out the door. Too much security is on high alert! Mark Kinney plays Crothu the half-Orc Monk, Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Getting into a city SHOULD be hard in the wee hours of the night. Getting OUT might be easier . . .but not by much. Can they escape the confines of a city that 'seldom' sleeps? Find out with a listen!

Session 230 - Drop Off - A brief interlude that sees The Strangers finding their way in stealth and silence to the outskirts of Die-Trine. Blending, creeping and whispering. Mark Kinney plays Crothu the half-Orc Monk, Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. There's only so much night left. And the cover of darkness may be stolen by the hazy rudeness of a drowsy dawn. Can they Get out? You know what to do. Press 'PLAY', but do it quietly...

Session 229 - Dragnet - The dust settled after the Garden Battle on Lord Hossbinger's estate, but there was no respite. The Authorities Arrived! Mark Kinney plays Crothu the half-Orc Monk, Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. A search was on. Fugitives were on the run. Would they escape? And were THEY the objects of pursuit to begin with? Duck into the nearest alley and listen!

Session 228 - " Dice Capades " Action resumes MID-LEAP and Fist Swing . . as The Strangers continue their clash with the Quincunx Killer Quartet. Mark Kinney plays Crothu the half-Orc Monk, Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. The DM learns some vital lessons about encounter balance this episode...

Session 227 - DnD 5e - "Murderous Lunch" - Finding Light at the top of the elevator shaft . . . THE STRANGERS bring their rescued dupe in tow and emerge to discover warm food and a cold welcome! Mark Kinney plays Crothu the half-Orc Monk, Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. What happens when escape is only blocked by "The Quincunx Killer Quartet" ? Download and find out!

Session 226 - DnD 5e - Our adventurers begin this session right where they left off; BATTLING against claws and Stingers! Crafty use of the wands they acquired in the last episode opened a new path to Danger. Mark Kinney plays Crothu the half-Orc Monk, Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Could The Strangers be nearing an escape from the Hilarious Hossbinger Heck Hole? Push PLAY on the ol' slimline cassette deck and find out!

Session 225 - DnD 5e - Puzzles Pondering - The Strangers take up their adventure again beneath lord hossbinger's Mansion as they face the room beyond the Demonic Gambling Marionette. Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk, Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Pick up and examine all pieces of their extended escape room and follow their defeats and victories both LARGE and SMALL. Give a listen!

Session 223 - "Get Out of Doge" - The Gutter Skypes gather for k-9 chaos! Slipping into the mad, trapped and ravenously hungry bodies of dogs trapped in a pound and eager to escape! Mark Kinney plays CHAUNCY. Andros Plays Napoleon. Nikki plays CLAWED RAINS ( really a cat) Anim5 plays Lah Poppoe. Trilobite Game Masters the the whole event. Will they escape? Grab a chew toy and gnaw on it loudly as you listen and find out!

Session 221 - DnD 5e - Dirt and Dice - Plunged into the fun house depths of Lord Hossbinger's Estate, The Strangers have been brought to full strength, only to contend with rude surprises and risky business. Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk, Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Eager to get on with the rescue they began, the stakes became very suddenly higher than any of them might have expected. Find out how with a download and listen!

Session 220 - DnD 5e - Bee and Eee - Playing in Evil's Back Yard. The Strangers take it upon themselves to rescue a prisoner and run into some flickering resistance. Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk, Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Follow their stealthy footsteps as they seek out a hidden victim and find instead, an unfolding scheme of crimes and croutons!

Session 219 - Midnight Meeting - Pre-Game banter, Listener feedback, and then . . .The Strangers Keep an appointment with a guild of questionable repute. Questions are asked, plans are made and danger looms. Will the assassin's contract on Bonesteele be pursued relentlessly or could there be a 'Big Picture' loophole? Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk, Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Follow the adventure in the dark streets of Dietrine, but try to keep up without being spotted by the city watch!

Session 217 - DnD 5e Rude Awakening - Listener Feedback, then . . . The Strangers take a well-earned night's rest at Maggie's Booze-n-Snooze, but find the wake-up call service a bit lacking. Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk, Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Sleeping nightmares remain hidden for the time being, but Real life nightmares just won't seem to leave them alone. Give a listen and share their pre-breakfast encounter!

Session 216 - DnD 5e Hey Abbot! - The Strangers take up where they left off immediately after their recent battle victory and take steps to finish the job with finesse and polish! Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk, Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. The paths flow into still waters . . . but there may be rapids downstream. Download and go with the flow!

Session 215 - DnD 5e - Arrival In Dietrine - The Strangers complete their contract with Boring Banto's Outfitters and ponder an array of options, selecting an "appetizer" that may set off a chain of unpredictable events. ( Some of these events have very sharp teeth. ) Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk, Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. A well-earned meal. Some unwelcome news and a 2 block stroll that has them seeing PURPLE. All clues to what you can hear for yourself with a download. Step into the Big City with these adventurers and give a listen!

Session 214 - DnD 5e - The Rites of Spring - Captain Spinalzo has a short hearing . . then The Party find themselves in one of the most DANGEROUS and Delicate Quests they have EVER faced! They play "Wing Man" to 2 Young caravan guards! Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk, Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Listen in on some revealing moments at the Emporium De' Aristo Tavern as the group really let their hair down!

Session 213 - DnD 5e - A Chapter's Epilogue - Celebration and Ceremonial Honors wrap up the current exploits of "The Strangers" as food, fun and daring games of skill take center stage in the post-temple era of the Chabba. Gameplay begins around 1hour and five minutes, but there's listener feedback and a whole bunch of FOOD talk to precede it in the Banter. Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk, but was kidnapped by Real Life and forced to remain in the Kentucky Salt mines. Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, but was also stolen from us as he recuperates from illen'. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. No medals or snubbed Wookies or shiny droids coming in from the wings....but there IS a race! Anim discovers that a broken clock is RIGHT twice a day...but screws up his lines . . . 'Felt bad about it..but was over it seconds later. See what the fuss is about! Download and listen!

Session 212 - DnD 5e - A Chapter's End - Our heroes conclude the current story arc of our 5th Edition Foray into Dungeons and Dragons. There will be ropes around waists, more green glows and even some swamp fish thrown in to boot! Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Were they victorious? ( Listening For Your Answer . . . ) You are Correct! But HOW?

Session 211 - DnD 5e - Spikes and Devils in the Dark - Our heroes continue their descent into the darkness of the buried temple of KTUK, discovering a deadly trap with a unique SPIN and an adversary that really messes with their heads. Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard though she was unable to attend this session, Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Will this ancient structure prove fatal to these brave five or could the forces of light and might carry them closer to victory? Download, listen and find out!

Session 210 - DnD 5e The Return of Trilobite! All hands are now on deck ( or below swamp to be strictly accurate ) and about to encounter their first hostile resistance in the Dark temple of the undead 'god' Ktuk! Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard, Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. There's plenty of bone-jarring impact and glow-in-the-dark fun this session so download and don't miss it!

Session 209 - DnD 5e Continues. Our adventurers leave the safety of the Chabba village and bravely descend into enemy territory! Actual gameplay starts at 1:33:00, but don't miss the feedback and banter leading up to it. The characters have leveled up to FOUR after all! Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard, Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, but was unable to join us for this session. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Check out the shift in atmosphere when heroes go from loud mud to silent ash!

Session 208 - DnD 5e The Zutain Campaign progresses another step as our party of adventurers findthemselves in the royal court of the Chabba and have an audience with THE KING. Anim was more awake this time, and it may sound as if he's squeezing his nose shut, but rest assured he was simply congested. Also . . . While it's on my mind . . . You'll find the term DnD used in most of these episode descriptions instead of D ampersand D. It would be preferable to use the ampersand, but it simply BEGS iTunes to zero in on it and treat it as some kind of code abberation which it uses to reject your entire RSS feed. I know there is a special character that can be used in place of the ampersand, but I'm not going to experiment until I break everything again. Thank you for enduring this story. :) . Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard, Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, but was unable to join us for this session. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Spoiler! No Combat in this episode! That comes NEXT time.

Session 207 - Our Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition Zutain campaign continues. A somewhat bleary and under-powered anim discovers that the recording was NOT beyond rescue and our heroes take up their story shortly after defeating the Carion Crawlers. Their path, of course, leads to sticky and dangerous ground. Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard, Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger, but was unable to join us. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's with at least ONE eye open. Even a dizzy DM can't hurt DnD! Prove it for yourself with a listen. :)

Session 206 - A DnD onslaught of links and info dumped on poor Nikki as Andros, Nikki, Mark Kinney and anim ramble on in a trip down memory lane. We wander from "Dark Dungeons" to "Mazes and Monsters" to "Critical Role". The common thread in this conversation was Dungeons and Dragons being a scapegoat and social "evil" in the eyes of many ignorant people over the decades. Those of you who know, will remember. Many of you who are new, may find fresh links and interesting perspectives. Worth a listen!

Session 205 - A Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition Holiday One-Shot! The Strangers have a happy recollection of their time aboard the Lisa May, fraught with danger and mystery! Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard, Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue, but was unable to join us. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's.Pour the egg-nogg, dip the cookies and listen in as they save "Crisp Mast"!

Session 204 - TOON Thanksgiving Special! - Blindgeek Animates us in a Tale of Birds and Billions! Listen in on the wackiness as Andros plays Murray the Christmas Elf, Anim plays Sporttle the measuring mantis, Mark Kinney plays Dr. Hoo, a supremely clever Owl in a frock coat, Nikki plays Goldie "pretty Boy" Thornton, a featherweight boxing canary and Trilobite plays Quentin Floydilla Boulregard the Tenth, a Very polite wandering Opossum. There's a LOT to be thankful for in this feast of a One-Shot! Dig in!

Session 203 - Mark Kinney's 200th episode SOTC Game - PART 2 - The Adventure is brought to an exciting conclusion as our heroes find where all the power leads to on that Massive airship. Steps are taken!

Join us as we talk to Melody Natcher, head of Tri Tac Games about the futureof Tri Tac as well as reminisce about the history of the podcast itself.  Joined by Mark Kinney of All Games Considered and former host Peter Bryant, now of the MythWits.

Session 201 - Kumite Playtest! With Andros unable to attend the night's festivities, we opt not to proceed with our SOTC Mix-n-mash, but set up the flaming steel barrels and make-shift bleachers to have an underground exhibition fight! Mark Kinney leads us all in a Playtest of his current Game Creation In Progress: KUMITE! Listener feedback first..then Character creation and spectacular Martial Arts battles ensue! Bring your air horns and place your bets! The combat is VIVID!

Session 199 - Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition continues . . .We last left our adventuring party about to be attacked by massive worm creatures and FishMen! No real spoilers here to say... in this episode . . . they ARE! Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard, Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. The Danger and combat preside pretty heavily over this session. Give it a listen. Find out who wins. :)

Session 198 - Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition continues . . .Our heroes recover from their alehouse dust up and meet the local law enforcement, a lumber digging engineer and an actual fish man! Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard, Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Calm heads, hot heads, careful observation and foolhardy strategies mix it up in this first glimpse of the drama playing out in the city of Wetstep. Try not to choose sides too soon!

Session 196 - Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition continues . . .We take up the tale of our heroes as they FINALLY arrive at Wetstep to join the caravan they signed on to protect Waaaay back in session one! Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard, Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. RL kept him from us for this session but our thoughts were with him and we hope to see him back for next session. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Memories of Seepcurse linger, but they are four days AFTER Godstoasting . . . so . . . relax...It's all ok . . .. Don't miss it!

Session 189 - Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition Plays to a Pause . . . . Our adventurers resume their story, steeped in present danger and reeling from a Tough Fight. But The Mine needs rescuing, and they're Just the Party to Do it! Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki RETURNS to play Argante, a Human Bard, Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's.The group is fighting time, goblins, darkness and their own underlying spirit of CHAOS... but they're determined to see the Job through!. . .( * No ice or snow appear in the Actual Narrative ).

Session 188 - Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition continues . . . Our Adventurers meet their toughest resistance so far! Their encounter with the bad guys at the mine's entrance quickly explodes into a Battle Royale! Check out the knock-down, drag-out clash of steel as they confront a mysterious trio of powerful scumbags. Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard, Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. RL kept Nikki from joining us for this session but we hope to see her back for next time.The group is Level Three and holy ore hoppers do they flex their muscle to stay alive. . .Don't miss it!

Session 186 - Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition continues . . . We take up the tale of our heroes right where it left off, with a strange beast from far off lands lumbering outside their stone refuge . . . Events take a fast turn and then danger descends with a snarling, Goblin face! Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard, Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue. RL kept him from us for this session but our thoughts were with him and we hope to see him back for next session. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Songs are sung, swords are swung and the adventure of the FeetSalvation Mine in The Sentinal Woods gets well and truly under way. Don't miss it!

Session 186 - Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition continues . . . A Clear Path to Danger for the heroes is chosen and followed! Brief discussion and planning within Seepcurse and then it's OFF to The MINE to seek out and destroy dark forces in whatever form they take ! Mark Kinney plays "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard, but was unable to join us from being targeted by cruel gods of sickness and Tech :( We hope to see her back and well next session! Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue, Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Gameplay begins at 36minutes. Follow the intrepid crew of adventurers as they manage to escape from SeepCurse a Second time!

Session 185 - Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition continues . . . Our heroes awake on GodsToasting morning in their rooms at the ROLLICKING VOLVO. Their day begins with unique experiences and encounters. Mark Kinney returns and we now have a name for his character! "Crothu" the half-Orc Monk! Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue, Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Gameplay begins at 1 hour and 12 minutes or so. Step back into the world of Zutain, the Country of Quincunx, the city of Seepcurse and the Rollicking Volvo Inn and enjoy a hot meal without danger of swallowing any dice!

Session 178 - Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition - "A Roll In The Hay" - Actual Gameplay in the second half of this episode too! Breaking Records here! The Gutter Skypes D-ampersand-D 5e adventure continues after Listener Feedback. Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteele, a Human Rogue, Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk and Anim5 dm's. Mark Kinney was kidnapped by Real Life but we hope to see him return for next time. After a swift dispatch of their interview-attack dummies, our heroes discover that their job interview has gotten out of the control of the Seepcurse employers in a BIG and Dangerous way!

Session 177 - Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition - "Grasping At Straws" - Another WARNING: Actual Gameplay in the second half of this episode too! - The Gutter Skypes D-ampersand-D 5e adventure continues after Listener Feedback. Nikki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger. Blindgeek Plays Bonesteel, a Human Rogue and Anim5 dm's. Andros was unable to attend this session, but we hope to see him return for next time along with Mark Kinney. Halfway through the hiring process, our adventurers test their skills, the players test their dice and the DM tries to determine if he knows his merde!

Session 176 - Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition - "Arrival at Seepcurse" - WARNING: Actual Gameplay in the second half of this Episode! - The Gutter Skypes D-ampersand-D 5e adventure Kicks Off after Listener Feedback. Nicki plays Argante, a Human Bard. Andros plays Cuddy, a Human Monk. Trilobite plays Rhogar, a Dragonborn Ranger. Anim5 dm's and keeps Mark Kinney's character in the party ( Mark Kinney makes a welcome, last moment guest appearance!) Blindgeek was in Real Life Adventures in California as we recorded this, but hopefully will be joining the party in the next instalment. See what greets our adventuring band of Heroes as they take their first breaths in the world of Zutain!