Podcasts about Snow

This week on the Midwest Flyways Podcast, the guys are trying to figure out where the ducks went and whether some seriously strange weather is about to shake up the migration. After duck opener, Joey, Cal, and Carter compare what they've been seeing around Minnesota. Some areas that normally hold plenty of birds have been surprisingly empty, while reports from Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta sound like hunters are still seeing plenty of ducks farther north. At the same time, geese are starting to show up in bigger numbers around the metro, leaving the guys wondering when the next real push is coming. That leads into a long conversation about rain, flooded corn, winter weather, snow, and how unusual conditions could affect duck and goose hunting throughout the Midwest. The guys also revisit the duck population surveys and compare those numbers with what they've actually been seeing in the field so far this season. They also talk about why a real winter would be such a welcome change, especially when it comes to pushing fresh birds down the flyway and creating some of those classic late-season duck and goose hunts in the snow. To finish things off, Carter puts Joey and Cal through another round of Say What?! Topics Covered: •Where the ducks went after opener •Reports from Canada •Weather and duck migration •Snow and late-season hunting •Say What?! waterfowl trivia
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WhoJay Dougherty, President and General Manager of Mount Southington, ConnecticutDate RecordedOct. 2, 2026About Mount SouthingtonOwned by: Multiple shareholders descended from the ski area's foundersYear founded: 1964Pass affiliations:* Snow Pass – 2 days, no blackouts* Snow Triple Play – up to 2 days, no blackoutsThese two passes have a lot of overlap, but completely different rosters:Base elevation: 210 feetSummit elevation: 571 feetVertical drop: 361 feetSkiable acres: 51 acresAverage annual snowfall: 40 inchesLift count: 8 (1 triple, 3 doubles, 4 carpets) – view Lift Blog's inventory of Mount Southington's lift fleetWhy I interviewed himA lot of ski areas are beautiful because they're set within nature's masterpieces. Mount Southington is beautiful because it's not: How cool is that? A ski area in the middle of a neighborhood. A neighborhood that most of us could probably afford to live in. Kids grow up across the street. If it snows enough, they can probably ski from their front door to the lifts. Good thing the ski hill is already there. We rarely build cool things next to where we actually live anymore. But it's hard to get rid of a ski area once it's built, unless it fails. Southington [Suh-thing-ton] is not going anywhere. Three of the bump's chairlifts are under 20 years old (two are younger than five), and a replacement for the fourth - Stardust - starts, well, any second now (a new top terminal is sitting in the parking lot). A few dozen neighborhood ski areas like this still exist across America, mostly east of the Mississippi. Sometimes the neighbors hate them, especially during all-night snowmaking season. But very few people living in a house near a ski area today would have been surprised to find themselves living near a ski area, since the facility would have in most cases preceded them. Maybe a few even moved in to be close to skiing. It's cool to imagine being one of them, waking up to morning turns three months per year. How cool - like having a lake house on a kinda small lake. It's not Aspen, but most of us aren't billionaires, and it's nice to think that, in a few far-flung corners of America, there's a backdoor to that sort of life that no one's really checking.Additional resources* New England Ski History details Mount Southington's early days.* A bit more on Southington's Northstar lift, received second-hand from Craigmeur, New Jersey, migrating for its third life as Lost Valley, Maine's Chair 3.* Somehow all my Mount Southington photos have vanished into the digital void, but Instapost preserves this shot of a really awesome sunset from my 2021 visit. Top of the Stardust chair:TranscriptsThere are two transcripts. Both are generated by robots. Both are helpful and defective in their own unique ways. I do not proofread either of them.Transcript 1: Click the “transcript” button at the top of this article. You can only see this transcript on a computer. Because I don't know why exactly but everything is getting better and dumber all at once it seems. Anyway, this is the transcript that the robots create when I upload the podcast to the internet. The cool thing about it is that you can click on any block of text and the audio will teleport there instantly. The uncool thing about this transcript is that it does not indicate who is talking at any given moment.Transcript 2: You can read this below. This is the transcript that Zoom creates as we record the podcast. The cool thing about this transcript is that it indicates who is talking at any given moment. The uncool thing about this transcript is that the timestamps do not match the audio. Also, you cannot click on this text to move to the associated point in the audio.ZoomStuart Winchester: My guest today has been president and general manager of Mount Southington, Connecticut since 2014.00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:37.000Stuart Winchester: Established in 1964, Mount Southington offers 51 acres of skiable terrain served by four chairlifts and several surface lifts. Jay Doherty is my guest. Jay, welcome to the storm. You are the first Connecticut representative to ever be on the podcast, not.00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:36.000Jay Dougherty: Okay.00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:42.000Stuart Winchester: for any reason other than I haven't been able to figure out who to talk to, so thank you very much for coming on today.00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:45.000Jay Dougherty: Oh, absolutely. I'm excited to be here. Excited to join you.00:03:44.000 --> 00:04:01.000Stuart Winchester: And you're a true Connecticut guy. We were chatting a little bit, and you said that Southington, and I don't know if I'm even pronouncing that right, is in — OK, there we go. There we go. All right, see, this is why I need to get you on the pod, because otherwise I mess up simple things.00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:56.000Jay Dougherty: It's Southern Vin. Yeah, there you go. It's all good.00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:59.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, exactly.00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:06.000Stuart Winchester: From right down the street, he said, tell us about Southington and what it means to you. Southington.00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:25.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, so I'm one of those fortunate few to get, have the opportunity to run the actual ski area that I grew up at. You know, I've had a season's pass here since I was probably seven, eight years old. You know, and then I worked, this was my first job was in the rental department here. So it means a lot to me and about something that's got a great community connection.00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:17.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:26.000Jay Dougherty: Oh.00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:37.000Stuart Winchester: And did you… I noted that you've been general manager since 2014. That's as far back as I could find your history online. Did you work there as a lifty in high school or anything? Was it your first job?00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:52.000Jay Dougherty: I did, yeah, so it was my first job, I worked in the rental department as a technician, um, and then I was going to college for elementary ed, um, didn't really know what I wanted to do, and my parents were like, well, I gotta do something. So I'm like, yeah, alright, you know, there's a shortage of.00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:46.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:04:52.000 --> 00:05:09.000Jay Dougherty: male, young elementary school teacher. So I'm like, that sounds like a great opportunity. But I was working here and got offered a year-round position painting lifts. And I fell in love with it at that point. And then I found a college program that was just starting out with Green Mountain College in connection with Killington.00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:01.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:19.000Jay Dougherty: Uh, and I ended up going there, and, you know, I graduated 2004, uh, worked for Killington for a very short while, and then came back here as Assistant Mountain Manager.00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:15.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:34.000Stuart Winchester: So talk to us a little bit about who owns Mount Southington. There's a really good, you know, New England Ski History, this site does a great job with the origin stories and there's a little bit on your site about the doctor and his wife, Dr. Harold Richmond and his wife who started it.00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:27.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:34.000Jay Dougherty: Oh.00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:38.000Stuart Winchester: I'm not sure who owns it now, but who do you report to?00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:48.000Jay Dougherty: Uh, this is the best story, because it's actually the kin of all the original owners. So all of their kids own it, and now we're starting to see actual, like, fourth generation, like…00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:41.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:45.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, really? Oh, cool.00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:48.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, wow.00:05:48.000 --> 00:06:05.000Jay Dougherty: starting to enjoy the ski area. You see all the little kids and the nephews, cousins. So, uh, there's actually probably about 25, um, actual owners, um, but we're very organized down to, like, the board of directors that I answer to, that is comprised of those owners.00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:49.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:52.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:00.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:08.000Stuart Winchester: So are they still mostly local folks then?00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:14.000Jay Dougherty: No, not at all. Everybody's spread out, uh, basically worldwide at this point.00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:10.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:11.000Stuart Winchester: All over.00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:12.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:14.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:20.000Stuart Winchester: You know, I… maybe you're not able to speak for them on this, but I'll ask, because I'm seeing…00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:21.000Jay Dougherty: Hmm?00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:24.000Stuart Winchester: Family-owned ski areas all over the country. Go through a sort of, uh…00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:42.000Stuart Winchester: ownership existential crisis where maybe the parents were really into it, or the grandparents, or even the grandkids, but then along comes a generation that maybe just doesn't have an interest in running a ski area. You know, that's how Vail ends up with a lot of its ski areas. They just, they were family owned, and they get.00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:41.000Jay Dougherty: Yep.00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:57.000Stuart Winchester: rolled over. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, I'm just saying that it's a model that is uniquely challenged by, you know, generational transition. What's your sense from Southington and the owners that you work with that.00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:05.000Stuart Winchester: They would like to keep this, as it is, a community ski area owned by families for, you know, the foreseeable future, or not.00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:24.000Jay Dougherty: So what I can say is that they're great at advocating themselves, like the board of directors that advocates amongst the ownership group for involvement. Um, subcommittees, um, and obviously we always promote to them, like, you know, take advantage of this great opportunity that, like, your grandparents, again, or great-grandparents.00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:14.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:28.000Jay Dougherty: Ah, set you up for it. I mean, there's a lot of, um.00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:26.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:34.000Jay Dougherty: There's a lot of benefits to owning a portion of a ski area and being involved with it.00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:38.000Stuart Winchester: So as it is, it's had all this time to…00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:48.000Stuart Winchester: grow under the original owners, and I imagine it gives it a really cool character, and I want to talk about some of the character things in a minute, but can you tell us, and this is going to sound like a dumb question, Jay, but.00:07:49.000 --> 00:08:05.000Stuart Winchester: I think you're uniquely qualified to answer it, having grown up down the road. What is Mount Southington? And what I mean by that is you look in New England, there's a hundred ski areas, right? And you don't have to go very far north to get to some really big ski areas, some really nice ski areas, you know, Mount Snow, maybe the first one north if you're going.00:07:58.000 --> 00:07:59.000Jay Dougherty: Yes.00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:07.000Stuart Winchester: And…00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:15.000Stuart Winchester: I think a lot of folks kind of look at skiing as, like, up and out. You know, I conquered Southington, so I don't have any reason to go back there, and I talk to people all.00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:21.000Stuart Winchester: who live in New Jersey, and I'm like, do you have a Mountain Creek Pass? They're like, no, why.00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:31.000Stuart Winchester: Right, it's not, you know, Jackson Hole, but it has 1,000 vertical feet and high-speed lifts. Now, Slingson's a different thing, but you have pretty new infrastructure. So, what do you think…00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:47.000Stuart Winchester: Southington is. Is it just a place for the kids? Do you try to make it nice for that? I know every skier has got that, uh, crew of dudes who are, like, 75 and then boot up every morning in the lodge. I think that's a Northeast thing. So, so what is Southington to you, and, and.00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:44.000Jay Dougherty: Yep.00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:50.000Stuart Winchester: What's your kind of core audience you focus on?00:08:50.000 --> 00:09:10.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah. So we're we're really the feeder, right? And and one of the things that we really strive to do, especially over the last decade. So my tenure as general manager is try to create pathways to keep everybody engaged a lot of times. What you'd find is you get that kid that gets to middle school, and they kind of like fall off, and they're no longer interested. So like.00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:53.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, yeah, yeah.00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:26.000Jay Dougherty: What we've tried to do is create pathways for those interested in terrain parks. We've introduced like an intro to free ride or freestyle for those interested in alpine racing. There's intro programs for that. We have weekend.00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:47.000Jay Dougherty: snow sports, school programs like our wild things and all of those type of things. So really, what we focus on are the kids, but also families. I think it's a great family atmosphere. If I had to like, we do a lot of things, and we do a lot of things pretty well. I mean, we go everywhere from like high school racing.00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:35.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:45.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:09:47.000 --> 00:10:00.000Jay Dougherty: Um, we're the home of Connecticut's high school, like, at least the public school leagues. Uh, we have adult night racing, um, and then, like, we host USASA events, uh.00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:00.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:06.000Jay Dougherty: So it's it's it's a lot and it's a really orchestrated operation.00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:07.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:13.000Jay Dougherty: You gotta be, you know, sometimes, uh, you can almost think of it as, like, being a maestro, trying to keep everything moving, and…00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:28.000Jay Dougherty: So it's not stepping on something else, you know, because we we really do change, and that that could happen in one day. The demographic completely shifts from yesterday. 75 plus crew that's here during the day. You hit 3 o'clock and the buses start unloading, and it's just.00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:16.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:39.000Jay Dougherty: crazy here. And then, at the same time, um, we're really unique in, like, our seasons past. Like, most of the visits that come from our seasons past, those folks live within, like.00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:36.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:51.000Jay Dougherty: probably a 15-mile radius of the mountain. So after school, all of those teenagers are getting dropped off here. Uh, so it's… it's… it's unique, um, in that sense. And then 8 o'clock, it's night racing.00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:46.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.000Jay Dougherty: So.00:10:53.000 --> 00:11:08.000Stuart Winchester: So I've pulled up your trail map here, for those who are watching this on StormSkiing.com or YouTube, and the Connecticut ski areas, all four of them that are public, they remind me of Midwest ski areas, and that's… I say that because that's where I grew up, and Midwest ski areas are very.00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:05.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:19.000Stuart Winchester: efficient, right? They have the racing lane and the terrain park, and what I really liked, I thought was impressive when I came to Southington, was you had a little mogul patch, maybe it was right here when I came.00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:28.000Stuart Winchester: This seemed to be the race hill. Wasn't much going on the day I was there, but that's neither here nor there. That's what I was assuming that was for. And there's some really nice park stuff.00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:35.000Stuart Winchester: I don't know, just… I mean, you can see it on the trail map where it's marked, but… but it's… it's, like, thought.00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:39.000Stuart Winchester: to, you know, give variety and make a small place.00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:49.000Stuart Winchester: feel bigger. I also like how you haven't widened the trails too much up top. So, just talk a little bit about that, you know, efficiency of use, and how challenging it is to make a mountain for everyone.00:11:49.000 --> 00:12:06.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, it is a challenge, especially when you're only dealing with like 51 acres, right? A skiable terrain. But you, you know, we want our programs to be successful. We want everybody to have a good time. We're fortunate in that, like our lift capacity somewhat matches our parking capacity.00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:55.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:02.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:26.000Jay Dougherty: So, like, people see the lots fall. Connecticut's a small state, so, like, if we're full, it's very accessible to go somewhere else. Not that we're encouraging that, but we don't want to… we don't want to overcrowd our trails, right? And yes, I admittedly catch flack, because when you do run high school racing in the afternoons, oftentimes you have to close down that.00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:11.000Stuart Winchester: Down.00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:19.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:34.000Jay Dougherty: Thunderbolt Trail in its entirety. There's sometimes four GS lanes that are set up across it during training and race days.00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:28.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:45.000Jay Dougherty: Um, but you… you try to do a good job at everything you're gonna offer. Um, so, you know, oftentimes, we… we get questions about things like tubing, right? Like, why… why don't you have tubing, right? So…00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:57.000Jay Dougherty: unless I can do a really good job at it, um, which our acres just doesn't allow for right now, and our parking capacity, like, it's… it just doesn't make sense to do it, because I don't want to…00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:07.000Jay Dougherty: offer, like, a poor product, a poor on-snow product, so… Um, but yeah, it's, uh, it is a big challenge, uh, for sure, especially when you're…00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:19.000Jay Dougherty: you know again, going back to that demographic shift like on a Saturday or Sunday morning, and you have all these lessons that are out there, and they're all fighting for beginner terrain. Yeah, it's a it's a challenge.00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:18.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:23.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, and for folks who may be wondering why…00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:35.000Stuart Winchester: Southington doesn't put in more. Here is Southington on the map, right? This is a Google map, and you can see neighborhood. You have development all around you, and I think… what is this, like a nature preserve in the back?00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:27.000Jay Dougherty: No.00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:43.000Jay Dougherty: Uh, so that's actually Southington Water Department, so yeah, there's no… there's no expansion that's gonna happen back there, yeah.00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:36.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:39.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:41.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:48.000Stuart Winchester: Right, and if you really zoom in, I mean, some of these houses, they probably have ski-in, ski-out if they want it. I.00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:49.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, they're really good. Some do, actually.00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:49.000Stuart Winchester: I don't know if they do.00:13:49.000 --> 00:14:05.000Stuart Winchester: But you have this, uh, it's a really unique location, and it feels very New England, because you, you get off the highway, you get off 84, and you're driving through these neighborhoods, you're like, where is this, is there really a ski area here? You know, I'm just blindly following my Google Maps like everyone else, and you pull up, and there's this.00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:01.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:17.000Stuart Winchester: barn. And I was reading a little bit about the history of it, but I'll let you tell us, what is this barn, and what can you tell us about the history of Southington as far as how you crammed a ski area.00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:07.000Jay Dougherty: Yep.00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:21.000Stuart Winchester: Or how a scary is crammed into a neighborhood that probably wants a neighborhood.00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:39.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, so, the story goes, as you can read on the website, uh, Dr. Harold Richmond took his family on a ski trip up north, uh, I'm assuming it was probably Mount Snow, and, uh, I wanted to recreate that in Connecticut. I mean, there were already existing areas in Connecticut, obviously Mohawk was around, um, it was Satan Ridge at the time.00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:29.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:54.000Jay Dougherty: So he came back and was looking for a spot. Initially, I think he wanted to open a skating rink in the town of Southington, and that got like shot down by the planning zoning at the time. So this farm was up for sale on the west side of town.00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:50.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:14:54.000 --> 00:15:02.000Jay Dougherty: At that time period, all of those houses weren't there. There were some, but not nearly the messages there on the map.00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:02.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:08.000Jay Dougherty: And, you know, he purchased the farm. Uh, he was an orthodontist, which…00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:22.000Jay Dougherty: typically doesn't blend well with construction, uh, at least, uh, on-hill construction. Uh, so they partnered with Palmisano Construction out of Bristol, and they built out the ski area. Uh, in 1964, it opened, so…00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:18.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:25.000Jay Dougherty: Been going ever since.00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:35.000Stuart Winchester: And then the barn, I understand that this property, I think, was assembled from a lot of things, but part of it was actually a dairy farm, right?00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:29.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:33.000Jay Dougherty: Yep.00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:34.000Jay Dougherty: Yep.00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:49.000Jay Dougherty: So, yeah, so, yes, I have, uh, actual photos of, um, cows being milked in that barn, uh, by the original owners, uh, which one of the original owners, actually, the family still lives in an adjacent property, so…00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:49.000Stuart Winchester: Really?00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:50.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:52.000Stuart Winchester: Do you have any idea how old the barn is?00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:56.000Jay Dougherty: Uh, roughly, I think there's a stamp on the side, it's like 1937.00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:12.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, so have you, you know, I imagine a lot of renovations have happened over the years. Do they have to winterize it? Did they, like, what do you, what does it take to maintain a building that's this old? Because it looks super cool, but one other thing I know about old buildings by living in a bunch of them is they're a pain in the butt.00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:03.000Jay Dougherty: Yes.00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:09.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:28.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, yeah, it's a challenge. It certainly is. You know, they're not the most efficient structures and like, especially when you're striving for sustainability these days and trying to reduce your carbon footprint and an older facility like that.00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:15.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:19.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:43.000Jay Dougherty: you know it. It's it is oftentimes drafty. But there there is that like quaint New England feeling to it when you walk in. Certainly, if it were much larger, it would. It would better service the folks visiting here. But we also have the mountain room, which is a second restaurant.00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:36.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:42.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:45.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:45.000Jay Dougherty: Um…00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:51.000Jay Dougherty: and lounge area. So, you know, we do a good job of spreading folks out, and.00:16:51.000 --> 00:17:01.000Jay Dougherty: you know, in the post-COVID era, people seem to not be as afraid to eat outside anymore. So, like, we've taken full advantage of, like, patio space and things like that.00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:58.000Stuart Winchester: Okay. Yeah.00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:01.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:06.000Stuart Winchester: That's cool, and then the old original farmhouse, I believe, is your ticket office, is that right?00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:10.000Jay Dougherty: Yep. Yeah, I'm sitting in it right now. My office is in there, guest service office, everything like that.00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:08.000Stuart Winchester: But.00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:26.000Stuart Winchester: That is so cool. So another quirk of Southington and Southington, and you, you find this only, well, I'm sure you find it elsewhere, but I've only seen it in the northeast, is the parking lot across the street. And so I know you have overflow parking here, but I always think it's kind of neat, but also kind of.00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:21.000Jay Dougherty: Yep.00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:36.000Stuart Winchester: scary, considering your demo of kids. I mean, how much of a pain is this? Is this, like, the apple orchards where… because I came on a non-busy day, like I usually do these places, and uh…00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:29.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:35.000Jay Dougherty: Mm-hmm.00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:44.000Stuart Winchester: you know, like, I know the apple orchards in the fall have to set up a cop to safely get people across the road. What's the… what's the safety situation here?00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:50.000Jay Dougherty: So the states provided us with a great, like, crosswalk there of solar power.00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:56.000Jay Dougherty: It's not… Mount Vernon Road, unless the traffic's coming here, is not typically that busy.00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:01.000Jay Dougherty: It's not one of the main, like, thoroughfares in Southampton by any means.00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:01.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:18.000Jay Dougherty: And for the most part, yes, occasionally you get the rogue driver that's doing over the speed limit, and you do encounter a scary situation. But knock on wood, I mean, for the most part, it's function. People know we're here. Certainly anybody in town knows we're here.00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:13.000Stuart Winchester: No.00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:30.000Jay Dougherty: So, it really hasn't been quite that big of an issue. It's well-lit, like, you know, at night, the skier would glow.00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:24.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:40.000Jay Dougherty: as, you know, we put it, it's there. I mean, you know, it hasn't been a huge issue, but it is unique to, you know, New England skiers. You really don't see it anywhere else.00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:35.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:56.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so, so when I, when I see all these houses, you know, I made the crack that they might have ski in, ski out, and that's my brain going to, I would love to live on the side of a ski area. Uh, not everyone necessarily does. I was talking to the folks over at Thunder Ridge last week up at, uh, the Ski Areas of New York convention.00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:49.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:12.000Stuart Winchester: And they're similarly built, kind of, aside a neighborhood. But, you know, the ski area's been there longer than most people live there. They said they've been having some issues with neighbors. I don't know how Southington sits with its neighbors, or if this is a blessing or curse to have these homes right here.00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:00.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:32.000Jay Dougherty: Um, obviously, the ski area itself, before a lot of those homes, especially ones that are trailside, um, you know, the ski area existed. Uh, early on, yeah, there were certainly issues. I mean, they were running, and I don't know if you're familiar with, like, snowmaking equipment, but, like, Radnik's, like, Sky Giant 2, or.00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:20.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:23.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:49.000Jay Dougherty: snow giant tubes, which were loud, sounded like a jet engine taking off. They were running compressors. They used to pump air into mines in Pennsylvania, like, very much a smaller version of what Hunter had going on a few years ago. And, like, it would, you know, thump and…00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:35.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:37.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:19:49.000 --> 00:20:04.000Jay Dougherty: shaking foundations. We've since modernized a lot of our equipment. We've gone to mostly fan technology, and it's quieted down quite a bit, but it was such an issue back then. The town recognized how important the steering was.00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:57.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:16.000Jay Dougherty: you know, to tax revenue. We bring a lot of skier visits in. Um, you know, I think about this here, it's like a ton of volume on small acreage. So, you know.00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:07.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:26.000Jay Dougherty: They actually worked with my predecessor, and it's actually in the town ordinance that we're exempt from the noise at night.00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:26.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:30.000Jay Dougherty: Um, yeah, so…00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:37.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, I have to imagine, too, that as your equipment has gotten more efficient, I've seen a lot of skiers, their snowmaking window has really shrunk.00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:37.000Jay Dougherty: Yep.00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:55.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, that's absolutely us. Um, we have a really difficult climate where we are. You know, it's somewhat coastal. Uh, we deal with Long Island Sound, you're close to the Connecticut River. Um, you know, we always talk about that I-84 corridor in Connecticut before, like the snow line versus rain line, and um…00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:43.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, yeah, yeah.00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:52.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:56.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:20:55.000 --> 00:21:10.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, it is a challenge year after year. So, like, staying on top of ZoomMate, that's probably one of our largest investments that we do. We put our new pump house in, fully automated in 2018, and now we've been, every year, just adding more automation to the hill.00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:03.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:16.000Jay Dougherty: Um, this year we added another, like, 10 TL8 Lances from TechnoAlpin, um…00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:12.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:16.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:22.000Jay Dougherty: and yeah, I mean, it's the way to go, uh, because our winters are so short, like…00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:20.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:22.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:23.000Jay Dougherty: Oh.00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:37.000Jay Dougherty: like, manual snowmaking equipment, like, you'll never be able to keep up with a computer as far as, like, changes in the atmosphere and conditions, so it's worked really well for us. And it's manageable because we're small, you know, like, we can bite off small investments at a time with it.00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:28.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:41.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, I try to make that point to my listeners and readers a lot, is that…00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:51.000Stuart Winchester: I was certainly surprised by this when I started this podcast, is sometimes the smallest ski areas have the best snowmaking, and I always point to Pennsylvania, they are just…00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:50.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:21:51.000 --> 00:22:03.000Stuart Winchester: have some incredible snowmaking systems, because they have very challenging weather patterns, and that rain-snow line you're talking about, a lot of times, folks who are in the Northeast, our weather goes sort of up at an angle.00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:05.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, yeah.00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:14.000Stuart Winchester: So… so it comes from wherever it comes from, and then goes… so there's sometimes this fun little rain-snow line that… that sometimes you're below, but sometimes you're above, right?00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:31.000Jay Dougherty: Right, and you have to be able to recover quickly, and that's what it's all about. I mean, like, typically after you get, like, one of those events, um, you do have usually some colder weather that'll follow in, and you have to take full advantage of that, and you want to be able to resurface as much terrain as possible, so…00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:18.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm. And are you feeding from this… this pond down here?00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:44.000Jay Dougherty: Yes, but we also have a, uh, water supply from the town. The town owns their own water here, so yeah. And we pay for it, um, but that's another expense item.00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:39.000Stuart Winchester: Oh.00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:41.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, that's great.00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:58.000Stuart Winchester: So, snowmaking's big. Another thing that Southington has really been investing in is lifts, and you're… you have one of the newer lift fleets that I'm aware of for a small ski area, and uh…00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:45.000Jay Dougherty: I don't know how.00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:04.000Stuart Winchester: Let me just pull up my notes here so I get this correct. But the…00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:15.000Stuart Winchester: So you put in North Star just three years ago, right, or two years ago, or 2023. Avalanche was new in 2021, I think.00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.000Jay Dougherty: Yep.00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.000Stuart Winchester: Thunderbolt was new in, like, 2011, is that right?00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.000Jay Dougherty: Uh, 2009 for Thunderbolt.00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:33.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, 2009. Right, and so, uh, before I ask you about these lists individually, I was up at, again, I was at Skiers in New York last year, or last week, and one of the big concerns with these guys, because New York has the most Skiers, but it's mostly family owned.00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:40.000Stuart Winchester: And one of their big concerns is just the cost of new lifts. All your lifts are ParTech lifts.00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:41.000Jay Dougherty: Correct.00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.000Stuart Winchester: And I've talked to Hagen, and…00:23:42.000 --> 00:24:00.000Stuart Winchester: Small operators, especially in the Northeast, or actually whoever's worked with them, speak very reverently of Hagen and how if he wasn't around, it would be very hard to afford new lifts. So can you just talk about working with Hagen on these lifts? And I realize, Thunderbolt, you were not in the GM role at that time, but it sounds like you were on site.00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:01.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:09.000Stuart Winchester: So just talk about Hagen and what it's like to work with him and how important he is to small ski areas in the 2020s.00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:15.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, so Hagen… Hagen's great. I mean, like, I have a long-standing relationship with Hagen, and…00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:12.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:31.000Jay Dougherty: he's the guy that you can call on, like, Sunday morning, and, like, if you need him to take a ride here to look at something, he will. Um, stands behind his product, always fix it, you know, he'll work with you. He's a solutions guy, really, um, is what it boils down to. And I feel like, um.00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:19.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:28.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:35.000Jay Dougherty: you know, when it comes to Hagen, like…00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:41.000Jay Dougherty: He's willing to work more with you than… than…00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:56.000Jay Dougherty: I don't have much experience working with the other manufacturers, because really, like, I've only really considered that, because, I mean, one of the important things for me is to try to standardize everything here. It makes it easier on my crew, it makes it easier on what we have to stock for lift parts.00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:45.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:47.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:52.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:12.000Jay Dougherty: and all of the above. Um, so, like, every one of our lifts now has the same grip in it, you know, assemblies are all similar, except for one lift, which we'll talk about, I'm sure. Um, but yeah, I mean, I have nothing but good things to say about Hagen, and he's.00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:03.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:16.000Jay Dougherty: incredibly important to this, and you say you're from the Midwest, so, like…00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:33.000Jay Dougherty: that's where I think you know where where you don't have you know that the lift ticket pricing in general in the Midwest is a bit lower than it is in the northeast, but we all spend have to spend the same amount of money on upgrading our facilities like it's not like there's a.00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:26.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:32.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:42.000Jay Dougherty: a discount for buying techno alpine equipment if you live in the Midwest, or you're here in the Midwest, or buying, you know, chairlifts. So…00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:38.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:51.000Jay Dougherty: um, yeah, it's a concern, and guys like Hagen are the… are… what can keep that alive, and come up with the solutions, um, for the future. I mean, like…00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:59.000Jay Dougherty: it, for us, it just makes sense, too. Pine Island, New York's not that far from Southern, like, it's an hour and a half, maybe.00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:06.000Stuart Winchester: Right. How worried are you about Hagen retiring and what's going to happen after that?00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:00.000Jay Dougherty: So.00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:07.000Jay Dougherty: Um…00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:09.000Jay Dougherty: I mean…00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:22.000Jay Dougherty: as with most lift manufacturers, somebody inevitably takes it over and takes care of it, but very concerned. I mean, the loss of, like, Hagen in the industry, if and when he decides to retire.00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:36.000Jay Dougherty: Um, it's gonna be huge for… for the areas that it relied on. There's a ton of part-tech lifts in the Northeast, and you find them at small areas like Mount Southington, and then private clubs, and things like that, and he's still servicing all the old boardwreck equipment.00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:47.000Jay Dougherty: Which I know, like, many people have had issues with Borbug in the past, but truth be told, I mean, there's a number of those installations that are still running from the mid-70s, so…00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:41.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:47.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:26:47.000 --> 00:27:08.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, and one of them is right here. The Stardust, which according to LiftBlog is a 1978 Borvig triple. So you have one, two, three new lifts. Well, I'm going to say they're, you know, anything built in this century, I call it new. And then you have this guy here. What's your thinking on Stardust long term? Are you happy with it? Do you like it? Do you want to replace it?00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:51.000Jay Dougherty: Exactly. Yeah.00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:10.000Stuart Winchester: What's popping around?00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:26.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, so, speaking of Hagen, we've been working with Hagen, and actually, the new, uh, idler return terminal is actually sitting on site right now, and that's getting replaced. So, we're somewhat redesigning the unload of that area, we're moving it downhill, gaining a little bit of elevation for now, and it's part of, uh.00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:19.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:22.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:35.000Jay Dougherty: pretty much a three-year, uh, as of right now, it's planned for three years. It could be a shortage, too. Um, planned full replacement of that list.00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:32.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:38.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, so, so, so you're, you're getting a new…00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:36.000Jay Dougherty: So.00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:44.000Stuart Winchester: So you'll get a new top terminal, then a new… I mean, I guess just take us through the timeline that you plan.00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:41.000Jay Dougherty: Yep.00:27:44.000 --> 00:28:04.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, so it'd be a new top terminal first year, probably a new bottom terminal the second and then towers in between the third. So unique to board big lifts, they have the hanging ship assemblies, right? So that changes, you know, the dynamic of your of your carrier, right? So you have a shorter with those hanging ship assemblies, you have a shorter hanger.00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:47.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:53.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:56.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, I think so.00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:14.000Jay Dougherty: attached to your chair. Um, so for me to do… I couldn't do the towers before I did the terminals, but I could do the terminals before the towers.00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:17.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, so that's essentially going to be a brand new Partech lift.00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:22.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, essentially. I mean, there'll be huge components in it. Um, the gearbox is…00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:19.000Stuart Winchester: The the.00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:21.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, yeah, yeah.00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:29.000Jay Dougherty: We're in great shape still, so I think that would probably get repurposed into the lift, so… but other than that, yeah.00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:43.000Stuart Winchester: That's an interesting strategy, uh, Lonnie Gleiberman, who runs Ischeria Mount Bohemia up in northern Michigan, he had some old riblets, and he replaced the top terminal and bottom terminal with SkyTrak terminals, and just left all the chairs and, uh…00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:51.000Stuart Winchester: towers in place, because he said it was going to be another couple million dollars to do those, and he said I could just build another lift for that. Talk to us about the 3-year…00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:58.000Stuart Winchester: construction? Is that just a money thing? Is that a labor availability thing? What makes you spread it over 3 years?00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:13.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, we do a lot in-house, right? I have a very talented team. Most of these guys, they're 10 years or 10 plus years. I mean, we've been working together for a long time, so we know our abilities, we know our timelines, we know what we can fit in. Um, and me coming from the operation end, I know what's, like, feas.00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:01.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:05.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so. Yeah.00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:14.000Jay Dougherty: So…00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:30.000Jay Dougherty: you know, we… when we… when we plan these things, yeah, there's a financial component, because, like, just maintaining a ski area like this takes a lot, but we also have a lot of summer activity that goes on here. Last fiscal year, I think we did 39 weddings. Um, we have a summer camp.00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:23.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:43.000Jay Dougherty: for 9 or 10 weeks that operates out of here. Uh, and then midweek, we have sand volleyball and cornhole leagues, so there's always something going on. Oftentimes, we're busier in the summer than we are during the winter.00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:33.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:40.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:44.000Stuart Winchester: Really.00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:51.000Jay Dougherty: Um, but that's all part of the sustainability strategy for the skier, you know, you want to be able to absorb those, those bad years.00:29:51.000 --> 00:30:05.000Jay Dougherty: But, with all that activity, um, you know, construction periods get into smaller and smaller, uh, time frames, you know? You can't be running site trucks by, uh, summer camp, you know what I mean? So…00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:53.000Stuart Winchester: That's it.00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:59.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:05.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:07.000Stuart Winchester: And do you guys self-install?00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:13.000Jay Dougherty: Um, we assist with installation, like, obviously, um, but, I mean…00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:11.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:18.000Jay Dougherty: I'll hire somebody to put the towers in, I'll, you know…00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:17.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:21.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, no, I know it's rare. The reason I ask…00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:26.000Jay Dougherty: We're very actively involved in installation, I'll say that. It's local concrete work, uh, local site work. It's not, like.00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:24.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:33.000Jay Dougherty: that, you know, Ropeway Construction's helped us a ton. Randy Glennis has been a great partner of ours, so, yeah.00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:31.000Stuart Winchester: Yes.00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:48.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, most people don't. The only reason I ask is I have Dennis Eschbach from Holiday Valley coming on later today, and he's one of the few that has an in-house team that just, they drop the lift off and they put it up. It's kind of amazing. So, you know, you said you were sticking, you know, you had a good gearbox and.00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:45.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:53.000Stuart Winchester: Assuming that you're just gonna have a, uh, replace Stardust with a triple, then?00:30:52.000 --> 00:31:09.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, it's going to be a trouble. It's going to remain. In fact, the chairs will be repurposed. So those aren't obviously the original boardwreck chairs that were on it. Those were flats, and they had issues with the chairs back in… that was probably about 2002. I think that was in College Way, and they replaced them with Partech.00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:55.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:58.000Stuart Winchester: Oh.00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:00.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, okay.00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:06.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:10.000Jay Dougherty: chairs at that time.00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:25.000Stuart Winchester: Right. So moving over to Avalanche, I don't know if you followed a similar multi-year process with that, but interesting to me that you kept it as a double. We don't build a lot of new doubles these days, just the ski industry in general. I mean, certainly like A-Basin built Pally.00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:16.000Jay Dougherty: We did.00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:34.000Stuart Winchester: a few years ago, replaced with a double. Was that the same kind of thing where you were modifying, or was there another reason why you went with a double chair instead of upgrading to that to maybe a triple or quad?00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:27.000Jay Dougherty: Yep.00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:47.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, so there was a lot that went into that decision, right? So, 2010, I want to say, that terminal at the bottom was replaced. So, there was originally a haul lift there. Um, I think it was, like, a 75 horsepower haul double chair. Um…00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:42.000Stuart Winchester: Hmm.00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:54.000Jay Dougherty: And… you know, it had some issues in the lower terminal, so we knew we had to replace that, so we…00:31:54.000 --> 00:32:11.000Jay Dougherty: took the hall wheel at the time, had a new hub put into it, so it would fit on a gearbox, a, uh, Kistling gearbox, and we had Hagen build a terminal around… around that to service the hall, and we ran it for… well, right up until we did the… all the…00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:23.000Jay Dougherty: last replacement of it. When that lift went in, it was designed that it could be a triple, so Hagen offered, like, two types of terminals at the time, and one could accept both a triple and a double.00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:14.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:20.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:35.000Jay Dougherty: Fast forward to 2011, and then time in between, ANSI standard changed. So your swing clearance has changed. Um, and that kind of brought in the issue of the lower terminal legs for us.00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:31.000Stuart Winchester: Umm.00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:50.000Jay Dougherty: And uh… so that was one of them. So I would have… if I wanted to change it to a triple at that point, it would have been a complete teardown of the lower terminal, new concrete, and a lot of… a lot of work that would go into that. Then you have the top, and if… I'm assuming you rode that lift when you're here?00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:44.000Stuart Winchester: Mmm.00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:58.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, Thunderbolt wasn't running, but I rode the other ones. But this was actually before you replaced it, so I rode the old Avalanche.00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:52.000Jay Dougherty: Very tight.00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:55.000Jay Dougherty: Yes.00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:04.000Jay Dougherty: Okay, okay. So, when you get off the avalanche double chair, right, it's a really tight spot at the top.00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:05.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Oh, and suddenly that little hill, yeah.00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:18.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, yeah. Um, so… one of the things that we salvaged out of that was the original concrete off the top. We had everything, like, NDT'd and tested, and we dug down to the base of the footing and all nine yards. Um…00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:33.000Jay Dougherty: And I got to thinking, I'm like, alright, if we're gonna, you know, add a little bit of uphill capacity, because the difference in all reality between a double and a triple is not… it's not crazy, it's not… you're not getting 33% more people uphill.00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:31.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:33.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:34.000Jay Dougherty: um…00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:51.000Jay Dougherty: it boiled down to, like, bang for the buck, and we accomplished this in a different way, and is this the ultimate, um, you know, top unloading for all of Mount Sinai? Can we try to stay, like, 5, 10 years ahead when we think about some of these things? And it's like, well, we knew we had the Stardust triple up there, and.00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:48.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:33:51.000 --> 00:34:16.000Jay Dougherty: you know, that's become more of the lift when we're busy. Yes, the avalanche double runs during the day, because the easy to access lift for the you know, the older crowd that's here skiing during the day. But anytime it's busy, or there's kids here. Family is adaptive programs. It's mostly the starters triple. And really what you lose between the 2 lifts or lost before this year when we replaced doctor and all of.00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:23.000Jay Dougherty: Stardust was probably 2, 3 acres of terrain. That's yeah.00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:22.000Stuart Winchester: Right. Okay.00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:24.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:28.000Jay Dougherty: it wasn't… it wasn't that much. I mean, you can still access the primary terrain from the other way.00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:36.000Stuart Winchester: And so you have good reliability to the top. It sounds like you're going to improve it. Well, you said start us starting this summer with that new terminal.00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:40.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, oh no, the terminal's on site, there's no chairs on the line right now, it's in progress.00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:39.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, wow.00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:45.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, great. Uh, oh, wait, so will that be in place for 26-27 ski season?00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:41.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:48.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, the top, the top of it, yeah. Just the top row, yeah.00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:48.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, okay. Okay.00:34:48.000 --> 00:35:02.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, no, that's awesome. Then, North Star is your most recent lift. So, this one's interesting. You went from a double to a triple here. I think I know why, but just tell us about this lift and why you wanted to go triple over here.00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:09.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, again, our big focus is on teaching people to ski and ride, and, um, you know, when you have… and we have a ton of kids here.00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:06.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:29.000Jay Dougherty: So, uh, a double chair really didn't make sense, like, it was, you know, for a, um, instructor to ride with only one student. Uh, or a lot of times you'll get families, and the parents want to teach their kids how to ski, and you'll get one parent that skis, and another that sits in the base lodge, and they've got two children with them, so…00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:19.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:31.000Jay Dougherty: You know, triple makes more sense there.00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:31.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:47.000Jay Dougherty: Absolutely. So that that was the primary driver of changing that to a triple, and that lift was put in. You know the lift that that replaced was a salvage lift from Craigmere in New Jersey.00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:48.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:35:47.000 --> 00:36:00.000Jay Dougherty: Uh, many years ago, uh, which I was part of taking down. Um, yeah, so, like, steel has an age, and I'm gonna be the first one to tell you that. So that was one of the decisions of, like, where we're, like, you know, let's just get it and replace this.00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:52.000Stuart Winchester: Were you really?00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:56.000Stuart Winchester: Yes.00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:01.000Jay Dougherty: So.00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:12.000Stuart Winchester: That's wild. So that lift is, from what I can tell, it was installed in 76 at Cregmer, and then you guys put it in, I think, 01.00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:13.000Jay Dougherty: Yep.00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:20.000Stuart Winchester: And then when you took it down, Lost Valley, Maine took it, and they made it their chair 3, and I rode that chair last year, and I was like…00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:25.000Stuart Winchester: Hey, is this the one they moved from Southington? Because this is… they did a really good job with it, but…00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:25.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:30.000Stuart Winchester: how did that whole deal happen? Were you like, dude, you're crazy, this chairlift is, like, 50 years old?00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:39.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, I mean, so, Scott's very talented, right? And, like, you know, his, um…00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:36.000Stuart Winchester: There.00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:54.000Jay Dougherty: he knows everything there is to know about all grips, and he has access to a lot of parts, so… I mean, for him, it worked. Uh, for us, you know, like, with the volume of people that we do, and what our challenge was with that lift.00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:45.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:36:54.000 --> 00:37:07.000Jay Dougherty: you know, I would say more of it into the functionality of the lift was the… was the reason for the replacement than the age. Yes, steel does have an age, like I said, but I mean, I think for me, it was more, you know.00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:14.000Jay Dougherty: we need this because of the volume of lessons we're doing, and, like, the pinch point it's causing with instructors, so…00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:11.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:20.000Stuart Winchester: Right. Yeah, you know, one of the arguments I hear from the larger operators.00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:26.000Stuart Winchester: for the reason that they don't sell older lifts, they're worried about liability. You know.00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:30.000Stuart Winchester: I find that dubious. Was that a consideration when you…00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:31.000Stuart Winchester: Sold.00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:33.000Stuart Winchester: To… to Lost Valley?00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:42.000Jay Dougherty: No, I… you know, when you're… when you write up paperwork, you can write it up as you're selling it for scrap, and I don't care what they're doing with it afterwards.00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:38.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:57.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, right, right, yeah. And they have other halls up there, and there's still a couple hundred halls running in the country. So, but it was probably good, nice for you to get rid of the last one you had. I'm curious about Snowflake, this little, I think this is the handle toe, and then you have the carpets over here.00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:02.000Stuart Winchester: Do you like the handle toes still here, or are you gonna move to a carpet? What's your thinking around there?00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:19.000Jay Dougherty: So, Snowflake is actually a, uh, it was a conveyor lift, um, that was there. The handle tow that we had is over on Whoopi, and that's since gone. Uh, that's moved its way out west to tubing operation this summer. Um, and the conveyor lift that was on Snowflake, our crews kind of, uh.00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:06.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:11.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, okay.00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:31.000Jay Dougherty: redoing, and that conveyor is moving over to replace the Whoopie handle towel, and we have a new conveyor that arrived yesterday that's, uh, replacing the snowflake, yeah.00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:25.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.000Stuart Winchester: Man, there's a lot happening. So you're gonna have, uh, four carpets.00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:36.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah, 4 conveyors, and then, yep.00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:41.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, so that's… look, this is all really impressive, and if I…00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:59.000Stuart Winchester: was looking at any skier area in the country, I think you probably have, top to bottom, one of the newer Lyft fleets, even including Stardust, right? And, you know, I cover skier areas all over the country, and a lot of times, there's so much deferred maintenance, you get something like a Holiday Mountain in New York, where.00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:50.000Jay Dougherty: Yeah.00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:14.000Stuart Winchester: Mike Taylor, I'm not sure if you're acquainted with him, but he bought it, and it was just… it was a junker, and he had to do everything all at once. It sounds like Southington's been able to keep up. And I asked this question, because I have a lot of people who listen to this who run skier areas or want to run skier areas. Is all this money.00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:30.000Stuart Winchester: to upgrade Southington coming from Southington, or is it… is there an outside business that helps feed in, or is it, hey, like, Patch Peak, the ski area, has to make a profit, even though the family owns a bunch of different ski areas. It's, uh, you know, Patch Peak can't take money from whatever their other businesses are.00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:49.000Jay Dougherty: Nope, it's all from outside of it, honestly. And that's, uh, you know, that's the best part of it all, you know, like… And, you know, it's having that strategy of how to continue operating under, like, all these outside pressures that we have. And, you know, we compete with everything.00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:34.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:52.000Jay Dougherty: Compute with video to complete.00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:52.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:39:52.000 --> 00:40:07.000Jay Dougherty: everything that's on the outside. We're just very fortunate to have like that main artery that runs through Connecticut and I 84 makes us accessible. Honestly, that's that's one of the biggest drivers. So it's helped us develop our after school programs.00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:01.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:13.000Jay Dougherty: It's helped us become the home for, you know, the high school race leagues.00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:19.000Jay Dougherty: all of those things. And, like, New York City, like, I can be down in New York City in, like, 2 hours.00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:29.000Jay Dougherty: Yankee Stadium, whatever. And, uh, it… we get a lot of traffic from there. We get traffic from Long Island, we get traffic from Westchester County, Fairfield County.00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:21.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:36.000Jay Dougherty: Um, you name it. So, like, just being accessible has been, like, the key to the success of it, really.00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:39.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, it really is. There's not… There's a lot of…00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:54.000Stuart Winchester: good ski areas that orbit New York City, that that's their main purpose. I, you know, Mount Peter is our go-to for my son for his seasonal program. Thunder Ridge, another one I mentioned. Uh, and there's Camp Gaughan, New Jersey. But then, the Connecticut ski areas, I think, are great, and they're actually…00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:45.000Jay Dougherty: that.00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:01.000Stuart Winchester: So, let's… let's wrap up on this today, Jay. You… last year, Southington joined the Snow Triple Play.00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:56.000Jay Dougherty: Yes.00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:02.000Jay Dougherty: Right.00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:17.000Stuart Winchester: And this year, you are on that product again, plus Snow Partners' new Snow Pass, which has two days each at 16 ski areas. And just to lay this out a little bit for the listeners, the way that I see Southington feeding into this is it's, you have Southington, you have Butternut.00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:33.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, and then you have Bel Air, Gore, Whiteface. So you kind of got those beginner ski areas where people can hop around and learn and then go up to the more aspirational ski areas, I'll call them. But just talk about those passes and snow operating and why.00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:40.000Stuart Winchester: Because I imagine you could have joined IndyPass years ago, but why did you finally go with Snow Operating?00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:52.000Jay Dougherty: So, we've had a great relationship with Snow Operating. Obviously, we're a little later in the ballgame with the attorney-based learning, um, but we've had such good success with them, and such a positive relationship with.00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:44.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:48.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:50.000Stuart Winchester: Okay. Yeah.00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:59.000Jay Dougherty: with Joe and Hugh and that whole group, um, that it was kind of, like, the natural choice for us to go with them.00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:00.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:13.000Jay Dougherty: Um, last year, yeah, we were on the, uh, the Triple Play, which was kind of the product that came out of something they were doing at Mountain Creek for a number of years. And, you know, thinking about it, when you approached us with the idea, it was like, yeah, we'd love to attract new.00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:08.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:19.000Jay Dougherty: with folks, and, like, we share a similar demographic. Um, people go south to them, they come n

As an occupation, working in the snow sports industry as a guide, instructor, coach and patroller has one of the highest non-fatal workplace injury rates in North America.Recreationally, skiing and snowboarding are often thought of as extreme sports, although I think we can all agree there is a range to that. Still, both resort and backcountry skiing and riding come with a much higher level of risk than most sports.In this episode, Jordy and Chris discuss what it takes to manage risk in snow more effectively. Chris leads the discussion leaning into the extensive work he has done on the Managing Risk on Snow program with Whistler Blackcomb and the Professional Ski Instructors of Canada (PSIC).Chris is currently developing the Managing Risk on Snow Certification for Instructors and Patrollers. When complete, this will be a four-level online certification stream with each level taking approximately three hours to complete. The first two levels are now complete.Jordy shares his extensive experience as an ACMG Mountain guide working in the Heli-ski and backcountry ski industry as well as his ski racing background.Both Chris and Jordy share what it takes to manage risk in snow more effectively so that you can reduce the risk of injury to yourself and others.Key TakeawaysChallenges of the Ski Environment: People are making decisions on the move. The environment is very changeable and fast moving. Conditions are inconsistent and the people themselves are unpredictable. All of this creates a high level of uncertainty.Smart Risk: Smart Risks are risks that are designed to maximize opportunities for growth and rewards, while reducing the chance of experiencing negative outcomes - to acceptable levels.Smart Risk Criteria: Smart risks are Calculated, Acceptable, Necessary and Prepared for.Key Components of Managing Risk: Managing hazard, exposure and vulnerability. Hazard is the thing that can cause us harm. Exposure is our proximity to the hazard, often measured in time, frequency and distance. Vulnersbility, is our susceptibility or fragility to the hazard. These are the three components that we are working to manage the most when it comes to managing risk.Three Top Risk Strategies: Reducing vulnersbility, limiting exposure by avoiding unnecessary risks and making sure we are prepared and ready.Guest BiosChris Kaipio is the produce and co-host of Delivering Adventure.He has worked in the adventure industry as an instructor, guide, trainer and manager since 2001.Chris is currently developing the Managing Risk on Snow eLearning Certification for the Professional Ski Instructors of Canada. When complete, this will be a robust four level online risk management and decision-making certification for guides and Instructors.Chris has written the book Power to Influence: How to get the best out of ourselves and others. He currently serves on the Board of Directors for the Association of Canadian Mountain Guides. This is where he met Jordy Shepherd.Jordy Shepherd is the co-host of Delivering Adventure.Jordy is an internationally certified ACMG / IFMGA Mountain Guide, guide trainer, an avalanche educator, rescue specialist, and a former park warden.His work experience includes Canadian Avalanche Association Course Leader for Avalanche Search and Rescue Advanced Skills, Provincial Park Ranger, National Park Warden, Wildlife Conflict Specialist, Wildland and Structural Firefighter, Mountain and Industrial Rescue Specialist, Heli-skiing Operations Manager and Lead Guide, and Licensed Real Estate Agent.In addition to all of his work in the adventure guiding industry, Jordy runs a successful real estate company in Canmore Alberta where he currently lives with is family.Guest ResourcesPSIC Managing Risk on Snow Certification: https://www.psic.pro/managing-risk-certificationFollow or SubscribeDon't forget to follow the show!Share & Social Linkshttps://linktr.ee/deliveringadventure

Guest: Kevin RothWe all love to think that the outcome of a game comes down to talent, strategy, and maybe a little luck. But there's another player on the field that nobody can control: the weather. Wind can turn a routine fly ball into an adventure, heat and humidity can test athletes and fans, and a thunderstorm can send an entire stadium scrambling for cover. So how much can weather actually influence the game—and what should fans know before they head to the stadium? Today, we're talking to Kevin Roth, a sports meteorologist who lives right at the intersection of weather and sports. We'll talk about forecasting for different sports, how weather affects performance and strategy, and how fans can be better prepared for whatever Mother Nature throws their way.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Kevin Roth and sports meteorology01:57 How Kevin Rxoth became a weather geek and his background03:49 The intersection of weather and sports forecasting07:52 Data analysis in sports weather forecasting12:04 Challenges of using weather data for player-specific insights12:39 Break 112:40 Impact of stadium microclimates and venue design19:48 Weather's influence on game strategy and player performance23:57 Weather considerations in sports betting and fantasy sports24:40 Break 224:41 Adapting forecasts for severe weather and safety concerns32:02 Career advice for aspiring sports meteorologists35:46 Future of weather forecasting in sports and technology advancementsSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

King was the only one drinking this week,, which means it's a wild-card episode. Joining King and Snow are our good buddies Starling and Nosferatu from the Anime Summit Discord. In this episode, we cover Phish Tour, Black Metal for the season, and the must-watch Spooky Movies to prep for Halloween!!! As always, enjoy responsibly and remember LESS IS MORE!To find out more about this show and the rest of the network check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠animesummit.net⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠!!!

The guys sit down with Cory Jokela of Boss, and Aaron Graber of Ventrac to discuss all things sidewalks, including the end of the SSV era, and existing sidewalk options!

USA Today bestselling author CJ Carmichael has published more than 50 novels in romance, mystery, and women's fiction, and she's bringing her Coffee Creek, Montana series back to readers. She talks with Samantha Tennant about building fictional small towns with maps and Pinterest boards, why she'd rather solve a mystery through character than DNA, and why readers love to hate Olive, the controlling mother at the heart of the series. She also tells what it was like to walk a Hallmark set covered in fake snow in August, and why she's taking her first year off in 26 years.

Meet DNA Vibe, one of PSIA-AASI's newest suppliers. In this introductory episode of the First Chair Podcast, host George Thomas talks with founder and CEO Perry Kamel about the company, its Jazz Band wearable, and why recovery is a relevant topic for snowsports instructors heading into a busy season. Perry walks through the Jazz Band's four technologies—low-level red light, near-infrared light, microvibration, and magnetic oscillation—and explains how DNA Vibe says they work together. George asks what “wearable” means in practice: where the flexible band can be placed, when someone might use it, and how it could fit around lessons, training days, travel to the mountain, or an evening at home. They also discuss the routines Perry recommends before and after activity, the recovery and performance claims behind the product, and DNA Vibe's work manufacturing devices in Ukraine for rehabilitation programs. Whether you're getting ready for your first days back on snow or looking for ways to make recovery part of your winter routine, this conversation will help you get to know a new PSIA-AASI supplier and the product it offers. Learn more about DNA Vibe: https://dnavibe.com/ Explore more First Chair episodes: https://thesnowpros.org/professional-development/first-chair-podcast/ Perry describes DNA Vibe's research and shares health and performance claims during the episode. Those claims are his and should not be taken as medical advice.

The five best hoodie colors for fall and winter 2026.Read more at 1923MainStreet.comShop 1923 Main Street for Snow, Skate and Surf t-shirts, hoodies and sweatshirts.Thank you for listening to the Travel Style Podcast by 1923MainStreet.com.Shop unique and original travel inspired t-shirts, sweatshirt, hoodies and more at 1923 Main Street.Follow along on X, Instagram, Pinterest and Facebook.Thank you for listening and always remember to roam freely and ride boldly.Mike Belobradic--Media provided by Jamendo

Upcoming Events Snowfighters Institute Webinars: Join us live for monthly webinars built to help snow pros run stronger, more profitable operations. All sessions run 10:00 to 11:00 AM. Recruiting | Tuesday, October 13, 2026 Why can't you find good people to hire, and what can you do about it? Incentive Compensation & Rewards | Tuesday, November 10, 2026 Are your bonuses and rewards actually driving the results you want? Client & Employee Appreciation | Tuesday, December 8, 2026 Are you truly appreciating your clients and employees, or just going through the motions? See the full webinar list → Eddy Zakes, CEO of Earth Development, joins Phil to share how a commercial snow and landscape company based in Green Bay has grown into a 15-state operation built almost entirely on a service partner network. From acquiring the business in 2021 with no snow industry background, to defining core values and brand promises in a February Airbnb in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, to a negligent homicide lawsuit that reshaped how he thinks about documentation, Eddy shares the operational, cultural, and structural moves that make Earth Development different in a space known for burning subcontractors. Connect with Eddy: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eddyzakes/ Website: earthdevelopmentinc.com Key Learnings Don't Mess Up What You Bought - When you acquire an attractive business, your first job is to learn it and not break it, because you bought it for a reason and every employee is better at their job than you are on day one. Brand Promises Have to Be Reciprocal - If you promise clients you'll be reliable, responsive, and partnering, you need service partners, employees, and even clients showing up the same way, otherwise the promises collapse. Service Partners Are a Two-Sided Marketplace - In every community, there are only a handful of great service partners, so protect that trust because if you burn them, you lose access to everyone they know for years. Recruit Service Partners a Year in Advance - Have conversations with potential partners in new markets before you have work for them, so when the customer expands, you're not starting from zero. Insurance Is the Fastest Disqualifier - The level of insurance a contractor carries is what separates serious commercial snow and ice pros from the people just dabbling. Service Verification Isn't Going Away - Instead of grumbling about the proliferation of apps, embrace them as the tool that protects your company when the worst-case lawsuit hits. Document Every Decline - Recorded phone calls saved Earth Development in a negligent homicide lawsuit tied to a client refusing extra salting, so build the systems that document what happened and what was refused. Fair and Generous Beats Suspicious - Lead with a posture of generosity, backstop it with fairness, and accept that you'll occasionally get taken advantage of because the alternative is living suspicious of everyone. Be a Resource, Not the Eye in the Sky - Monitor service partners nonstop, but show up alongside them during storms with field operations supervisors instead of playing gotcha after the fact. High Expectations Attract the Right Partners - Great service partners want to be part of an elite performance environment, so don't apologize for the accounta... Chapters (00:00:00) - Welcome and Guest Intro(00:00:40) - Inside Earth Development(00:02:59) - Six Years of Growth(00:05:08) - The Service Partner Model(00:07:49) - Core Values and Brand Promises(00:13:13) - Recruiting Great Partners(00:23:32) - Why Service Verification Matters(00:28:56) - Running a 15-State Operation(00:31:49) - Fair and Generous Leadership(00:36:54) - From Light Bulbs to Snow(00:44:10) - Do You Love Snow?(00:45:35) - Wrap Up

St. Wenceslaus — the "Good King Wenceslas" of the Christmas carol — snuck out barefoot at night to give alms in secret. Raised in the faith by his grandmother Ludmila, who was later murdered for her influence over him, Duke Wenceslaus of Bohemia carried alms to the poor in the dark so no one would see him do it. He was martyred by his own brother in 935, dying for the very faith Ludmila had first planted in his heart. "He wasn't sneaking away from his duties. He was sneaking toward them." Want to keep living Wenceslaus's story after the episode ends? Grab our free Family Pack — a saint calendar with daily challenges, feast-day activities, family discussion questions, and more — free for email subscribers, so your family can follow along together: https://shop.catholicsprouts.com/pages/every-days-a-feast-day-follow-along  

Ant, Russ, and Bundy are back from a long summer hiatus. The guys dive into the new contract landscape with a rising cap, whether there were any roster surprises, Matvei Michkov's offseason, and the team's X-factor. Plus, the guys make predictions for the upcoming season.

The guys welcome Robert Thyng of RD Outdoor, and Steve Smythe of Storm Equipment to do a little late night ranting about whatever is on their snow minds, and to also try to help Robert with a very important question regarding his snow market!Music Credits: Rev Theory

This Week Chuck Rants AboutCamera, Snow, Costumes,Keychains and much more, on this episode of, Casually UncomfortableCall Show And Leave A Question, Comment, And Or A Concernshttps://www.speakpipe.com/CasuallyUncomfortable

Rosanne Annoni - psychotherapist of 35 years, ordained Diamond Approach teacher, and author of the newly released memoir Unfolding the Heart: One Woman's Quest for True Nature, traces the remarkable arc of her spiritual journey: from a childhood vision of becoming a Catholic nun (and her mother's unforgettable reaction) to years of searching through metaphysics and Vipassana meditation, to finding her spiritual home in the Diamond Approach and the teachings of Hameed Ali (A.H. Almaas). Rosanne shares the story of how a book her student gave her, A Cave in the Snow, inspired her to spend a month of silent retreat at Gampo Abbey for her 60th birthday - where she unexpectedly found herself staying in Pema Chödrön's own cabin. She also reflects on the surprising echoes between her Catholic upbringing and Buddhist practice, from incense and chanting to prayer as a form of meditation, and how the two traditions ultimately reconciled in her heart - including a deeply moving moment of forgiveness with her mother near the end of her life. At the heart of this conversation is Rosanne's raw and honest account of grief and transformation: losing her "twin soul," her best friend of 45 years, to cancer while facing her own diagnosis, and how that crushing loss called her to truly live her practice. She speaks candidly about losing contact with her true nature, finding her way back, and the lesson impermanence keeps teaching as she approaches 80. Her closing message is one of hope - that no matter your tradition or your messy life, a willingness to turn inward with curiosity makes it possible for anyone to discover who they really are. Unfolding the Heart is available in paperback, ebook, and audiobook (read by Rosanne herself) at  Amazon, Simon & Schuster, and Bookshop.com.    

Recounting the story of the Exodus of the Hebrew people from Egypt and the crossing of the Red Sea, this song is set to the English tune ‘The Snow it Melts the Soonest' proclaims God's compassion despite the people's continued rebellion and doubt. Telling the tale plainly and with a slightly ominous tone, this Psalm invites us to confess our own propensity to turn away, even when God has done great things for us.Continue your reflections with the accompanying journal, which includes further questions for reflection and some invitations to prayer and practice.Paid subscribers receive a free journal PDF, or you can purchase a paperback versionVisit the Celtic Psalms website for scores/books, mp3s, CDs, and videos for Banks of the NileFind out more about the Habits for the Spirit course: an 8-week online course exploring habits and daily spiritual practices to promote wellbeing in body, mind, and spiritFollow Kiran's monthly reflections on Bless My FeetPsalms for the Spirit is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit psalmsforthespirit.substack.com/subscribe

A dangerous book is delivered to Candlekeep and DeAngelo finds a surprise within a crate. Email us your questions at: FreelanceHeroismPodcast@gmail.com Visit Freelance Heroism on Facebook! https://www.facebook.com/freelanceheroism/ We have a Patreon! Any support you can provide goes toward us giving you a better podcast listening experience: https://www.patreon.com/Freelance_heroism Check out Deece's webcomic! http://www.1d4rounds.com/ Find the cast on BlueSky: Deece: https://bsky.app/profile/roguist.bsky.social Rae: https://bsky.app/profile/raedrie.bsky.social You can find our gameplay videos on our YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6TwfLOFsl192ExdAugebgg/ You can check out our web page here: https://rss.com/podcasts/freelancehero/ Intro theme is Dark Fantasy Studio- Blood on Snow, which is licensed under an AttributionNonCommercial 4.0 International License.

The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast thinks that yelling “PIZZA!” and “FRENCH FRY!” at a 2-year-old superman straightlining down a green slope is a highly effective ski instruction technique. If you agree, please sign up for my newsletter:WhoBrian Bensch, founder of Snow SchoolersDate recordedSeptember 24, 2026About Snow SchoolersSnow Schoolers, per its website, is an “independent ski school program” that teaches lessons “at any mountain where we've established a revenue-sharing partnership with the ski area.” Skiers sign up for lessons on their Pet Rectangles, like this:Why I interviewed himThat sounds pretty neat, right? Let me go see if Snow Schoolers teaches at my favorite mountain. Snow Schoolers probably does not teach at your favorite mountain. Unless your favorite mountain is 222-vertical-foot Granlibakken, which is about five feet away from 6,000-acre Palisades Tahoe, or 100 vertical-foot Frisco Adventure Park, tucked off highway 9, after 1.5 million-ish skiers exit I-70 on their way to nearby Breckenridge.That is not an indictment of small ski areas, which I love, or Snow Schoolers' business model, which I also love. Rather, it's my way of saying that the only way to sign up for ski school at Palisades Tahoe or Breckenridge is through Palisades Tahoe or Breckenridge. With the strange, grandfathered-in exception of the strange, cobbled-together ski bazaar that is Summit at Snoqualmie in Washington, all major American ski areas (so far as I know) operate with a monopoly over ski school operations on their property. In ways subtle and aggressive, they police and ban rogue instructors who would offer discounted lessons on resort property.There are probably ways to break this system, either through the courts or legislative amendment of the Forest Service leases that 125 U.S. ski areas operate on. Such change sounds radical only in an American context - most European ski areas already operate with multiple independent competing ski schools onsite. Over the past 20 years, technology has challenged monopolies across American commerce. Sports and concert tickets and taxi rides offer two prime examples of power shifting from one central operator to many operators, with benefits and drawbacks for the consumer. Perhaps we will get there with ski school. For now, I see a more practical path for an asset-light, app-based, independent ski school like Snow Schoolers - as the costs of labor, utilities, infrastructure, and insurance pile up, perhaps outsourcing the operation of a ski school is more practical for many smaller, independent ski areas than establishing and maintaining one of their own. That is what you get at Granlibakken and Frisco: Snow Schoolers pays the ski areas a share of each lesson, essentially as rent for the right to operate a ski school on their property. And Granlibakken and Friso don't have to worry about hiring instructors and organizing lessons. There are probably 100 under-resourced ski areas in America where this model could work tomorrow. Brian and I discuss why Snow Schoolers works where it does, and why the model has been slow to spread.TranscriptsThere are two transcripts. Both are generated by robots. Both are helpful and defective in their own unique ways. I do not proofread either of them.Transcript 1: Click the “transcript” button at the top of this article. You can only see this transcript on a computer. Because I don't know why exactly but everything is getting better and dumber all at once it seems. Anyway, this is the transcript that the robots create when I upload the podcast to the internet. The cool thing about it is that you can click on any block of text and the audio will teleport there instantly. The uncool thing about this transcript is that it does not indicate who is talking at any given moment.Transcript 2: You can read this below. This is the transcript that Zoom creates as we record the podcast. The cool thing about this transcript is that it indicates who is talking at any given moment. The uncool thing about this transcript is that the timestamps do not match the audio. Also, you cannot click on this text to move to the associated point in the audio.ZoomStuart Winchester: My guest today founded Snowschoolers in 2014 with the mission to make skiing and riding affordable and accessible for average Americans.00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:11.000Stuart Winchester: and to pay snow sports pros a sustainable living wage.00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:19.000Stuart Winchester: Today, Snowschoolers operates at Grand Lebakken in Lake Tahoe, and Frisco Adventure Park in Colorado, two small ski areas.00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:36.000Stuart Winchester: Last year, Snow Schoolers hosted approximately 6,000 students. He is a good friend of the Storm. He is Brian Bench. Brian, welcome to the Storm. You reached out to me very shortly after I launched in 2019 or 20, and we've been talking for years, and you've helped me out a lot.00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:38.000Stuart Winchester: With the…00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:45.000Stuart Winchester: digital side of things, which I'm not so good at, so it's awesome to finally get you on and talk some snow schoolers. How you doing today?00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:48.000Brian Bensch: Doing lovely. Can't complain. Always busy, never bored.00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:52.000Stuart Winchester: And that is… yeah, that is a picture out your window of Tahoe, right?00:16:51.000 --> 00:17:00.000Brian Bensch: Yes, that is a, it's called Maggie's Peak, but that's looking at the little lake just next to Emerald Bay.00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:57.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:05.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, which would be sort of north side of the lake, so you'd be looking…00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:03.000Brian Bensch: Oh.00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:08.000Brian Bensch: South Tahoe, kind of on the other side of the corner, like, across from Heavenly.00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:18.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, south, right? I was… I was backwards. So… so on the… up the left side, there would be Homewood, and then up the right side would be Heavenly and Diamond Peak, and at the top is, like.00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:10.000Brian Bensch: Yeah.00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:15.000Brian Bensch: Correct.00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:19.000Brian Bensch: Mostly correct.00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:26.000Stuart Winchester: Or North Star? North Star, Northwood. Okay, alright, uh, before I hurt myself, let's just get into this. So, so Brian.00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:28.000Brian Bensch: Well, we'll get you out to Tahoe soon enough, and then your Tahoe geography will get.00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:31.000Stuart Winchester: It's been a minute. So…00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:40.000Stuart Winchester: What is broken about American ski schools, and how did you try to fix it with snow schoolers?00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:45.000Brian Bensch: Yeah. So I would say similar to, you know.00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:49.000Brian Bensch: The the general diatribe about, you know.00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:55.000Brian Bensch: The ski industry being kind of broken with lift tickets too expensive and climate change is gonna end the world.00:17:55.000 --> 00:18:07.000Brian Bensch: Not everything is broken, but particularly the most front and center in your face resorts that you know everyone hears about, and you know, makes the quote unquote mainstream news has been broken for a while.00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:15.000Brian Bensch: And, you know, the gist is, if you roll up to, you know, a Tier 1 destination resort.00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:16.000Brian Bensch: Brooke, uh…00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:32.000Brian Bensch: Not only is lift ticket price what it is, but if you are looking for a group lesson, you're looking at a couple 100 bucks. And if you're looking for a private lesson, you're lucky if you can find anything that is under 1000 today. When we started Snow Schoolers, I remember telling people like, you know, a private lesson is $700 or $800.00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:35.000Brian Bensch: Well, now it's roughly double that.00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:51.000Brian Bensch: And I started teaching skiing back in college at the Dartmouth Skiway shout out to Mark and the team there, and you know I thought it was the best job ever making 12 bucks an hour in college, but it is still a minimum wage hourly job.00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:55.000Brian Bensch: Despite the high margins that resorts take.00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:59.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, wait, wait, let's, let's pause right there. So over a thousand a day for a lesson.00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:07.000Stuart Winchester: patrollers are making… I think at the Tier 1 resorts, they're probably making more than minimum wage. I think it's probably more in… at least in the 20s.00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:10.000Brian Bensch: Yeah, the, the, go ahead.00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:09.000Stuart Winchester: Plus tips, but, but.00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:19.000Stuart Winchester: Still, right, so you figure it's $1,200 a day for a lesson, and the instructor's getting, you know, $150 of that, or something. What… why…00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:23.000Stuart Winchester: Why does that model even exist? Like, who would even do that?00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:25.000Brian Bensch: Out.00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:28.000Brian Bensch: Because…00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:31.000Stuart Winchester: Like, who would work for that? Like, when you, right? Like, why not just give your own lessons?00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:29.000Brian Bensch: Yeah.00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:44.000Brian Bensch: Yeah, well, and there's two sides… two sides of the mark, and I, uh… outside of my passions for skiing, I consider myself sort of a marketplace, you know, guru of sorts. And, you know, on the supply side, or, like, the staffing side.00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:33.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:52.000Brian Bensch: could ever imagine, and there's a reason why people love to teach skiing.00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:55.000Brian Bensch: One of the, I would say.00:19:54.000 --> 00:20:03.000Stuart Winchester: Hey, Brian, I'm sorry, you froze there for probably about, like, 5 seconds. Um, I don't know if you're on a hard line, or you have good Wi-Fi, or…00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:00.000Brian Bensch: Okay.00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:11.000Brian Bensch: It's Tahoe Wi-Fi. But it's generally fine, unless it goes out and flickers, but…00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:05.000Stuart Winchester: Is it?00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:07.000Stuart Winchester: It's Tahoe Wi-Fi.00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:13.000Stuart Winchester: you…00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:19.000Brian Bensch: I can close a couple tabs, that might help. Or we can just… I don't want you to… I know editing is tough.00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:17.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, I think so.00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:22.000Stuart Winchester: No, no, no, you, you, uh, can you plug in, possibly?00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:25.000Brian Bensch: I don't have an Ethernet.00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:31.000Stuart Winchester: You know, okay, alright. Um, yeah, let's just, yeah, try to close some stuff, and we'll keep going, and at worst case, you can, uh, go off screen.00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:29.000Brian Bensch: Yep.00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:32.000Brian Bensch: Sure.00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:38.000Brian Bensch: To pick back up the… the kind of…00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:54.000Brian Bensch: Why is it, you know, possible for a lesson to cost $1,200 and the instructor only keeps 20% of that? There's two components to it. The first is that, you know, historically there was a glut of ski instructors going back into the 60s, 70s, 80s.00:20:54.000 --> 00:21:10.000Brian Bensch: Uh, you know, the, the quintessential ski bum, uh, is and was a great job, particularly for people that, you know, get the addiction that I know we both have. Um, and so, you know, lessons didn't used to be this expensive, um, just like lift tickets didn't used to be this expensive.00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:29.000Brian Bensch: Um, and so just like being a lifty, being a ski instructor was, you know, maybe a slight step above, you know, requires more training, but it has always been the sort of an entry-level hourly position. Um, and it's certainly not the federal minimum wage at most resorts. Uh, when Vail came out, uh, post-COVID with the $20 an hour kind of cross-board raise.00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:41.000Brian Bensch: Uh, that was great for the industry, not just, you know, Vail Resorts staff. Um, and… but the prevailing wage for, you know, first-year ski instructor is certainly in that $20 an hour range today.00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:45.000Brian Bensch: And, you know, we try to do things differently.00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:49.000Stuart Winchester: Right, but okay, so, but fundamentally to get at the…00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:55.000Stuart Winchester: at this dynamic. I'm a ski instructor. Let's say I'm a great ski instructor, right? And everybody loves me.00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:57.000Stuart Winchester: And I… I can see that…00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:07.000Stuart Winchester: you know, Northstar is charging $1,000 for a lesson, and they're paying me $25 an hour. I don't know what Northstar pays, so feel free to correct me, Northstar, but…00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:10.000Stuart Winchester: Why don't I as an instructor?00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:25.000Stuart Winchester: just say, well, I'm just gonna go on Facebook and advertise my services, and say, meet me at the Lyft at Northstar, and I'll give you a lesson for $200 for the day, because then I'm making more, and… and we're just… and the consumer's getting a better deal.00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:34.000Stuart Winchester: And then we established this one-on-one relationship. Why doesn't that marketplace exist? Why do ski areas exist?00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:42.000Stuart Winchester: How are they able to do this weird market dynamic, which sounds fundamentally unfair to the instructor?00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:57.000Brian Bensch: Yeah. Well, that question is certainly more or less exactly what I pondered 10 years ago. And how I got into this fun little project called Snowschoolers.00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:03.000Brian Bensch: was the realization that, oh my god, like, why does this exist? Um, and, you know, and…00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:08.000Brian Bensch: 10 years ago, Uber and Airbnb had just become kind of a mainstream thing.00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:10.000Brian Bensch: Um, and so I was like, oh.00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:28.000Brian Bensch: I wonder if we could just connect instructors to students directly and have a little marketplace for ski school. At the time, I knew nothing about, you know, special use permits from the Forest Service and the ski industry broadly. You know, I'd grown up skiing, but I was just a lay consumer skier. The reality is, and very similar to.00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:36.000Brian Bensch: you know a lot of the work you've done this summer going into Forest Service kind of history. The special use permit system.00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:54.000Brian Bensch: effectively grants the resort, at least on Federal lands, where the special use permit exists, a micro monopoly over all business activity at their mountain. And it doesn't have to be that way. If you do go over to Europe, it is a much more laissez-faire free market.00:23:54.000 --> 00:24:07.000Brian Bensch: Um, and most major resorts in Europe have at least four to six, you know, uh, ski schools that operate and compete, and, you know, the average lesson prices are roughly a third, and instructors keep, you know, 50 to 60% of lessons.00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:19.000Brian Bensch: And so it doesn't have to be the way it is. But at at the core it is. It is because resorts have the legal right to be the only ski school of record. And.00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:30.000Stuart Winchester: Right, so just to get ahead of the people who like to point out details, so North Star was a weird example for me to use because it's on private land, it's not on Forest Service land. However, it's owned by Vail Resorts, and I think what you're saying is.00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:44.000Stuart Winchester: even though not every U.S. skier is on U.S. Forest Service land, 125 of them are, it… the fact that that encompasses the majority of our ski terrain has normalized the culture of one mountain, one ski school. Is that fair?00:24:44.000 --> 00:25:01.000Brian Bensch: Correct. And there is maybe a dirty little secret of capitalism that monopolies are great businesses. So Northstar does not want six other ski schools competing and driving the price down because ski school is very, very lucrative to the at least traditional big resort ski model.00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:46.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:50.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:09.000Stuart Winchester: So, disruptor Brian comes out and says, alright guys, get out of the way, I am gonna change the world with.00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:19.000Stuart Winchester: snow schoolers and my Uber for skiing app, which I know you don't want to call it anymore, but nonetheless, since you brought up the analogy, let's go back to 2014.00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:22.000Stuart Winchester: Take us into it. What did you do and what happened?00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:32.000Brian Bensch: Yeah. In short, I would say, did a little bit of experimenting with that idea. And, you know, by the end of the first season.00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:43.000Brian Bensch: Learned pretty quickly that the ski resort management does not like the idea. And if you want to be able to ski at places that you love to ski.00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:55.000Brian Bensch: it's probably a good idea to not, uh, not poke the bear too much, so to speak. Um, and so, uh, that first kind of pilot program very much led me into the, uh.00:25:55.000 --> 00:26:14.000Brian Bensch: and and this it was always a snooze. This has been a side project of mine for a while. It's a I would call it a thriving small business. That 1st year I I pretended it was a startup, or I called it a startup, but never took funding and you know that 1st pilot program helped me realize that the only way, if I was going to turn this into real business.00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:07.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:27.000Brian Bensch: was to find a way that was mutually beneficial for both resorts and instructors, uh, and obviously the students. Um, and that led me to, you know, how can I create a revenue share model.00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:41.000Brian Bensch: Uh, where by bringing more new skiers to the mountain, everyone benefits. Um, the resort gets to share the revenue, uh, the student gets a cheaper lesson, and the instructor gets higher pay. Um, and, uh…00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:54.000Brian Bensch: you know, by the time 2016 rolled around I was ready to quit my corporate job and give it a role, and so moved to Tahoe. And you know, without the.00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:04.000Brian Bensch: A gentleman named Brian Schilling out in Homewood. Without him taking sort of a chance on me, snow schoolers would not exist. But Homewood was coming off.00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:22.000Brian Bensch: we'll say a typical bad snow year, and had to let go a lot of their ski school staff the year prior, because I think they were open for, like, 40 days that season, and hiring was a huge priority. Like, they were rebuilding a ski school from scratch, and the reality was the pitch that resonated with Homewood.00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:37.000Brian Bensch: was much less about, can we, like, you know, offer more affordable lessons and increase gear visits that way, but we need, like, we don't know how to hire instructors, we need a bunch of instructors, and this Uber model of.00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:52.000Brian Bensch: uh, pseudo-freelance instructors was attractive to them. Um, and, you know, I told them that, like, I had put up a couple ads and had, you know, 20 people apply within a few weeks, and they're like, ah, that's interesting. Um, and so that led to our first season, uh, which I would say was.00:27:52.000 --> 00:28:06.000Brian Bensch: uh, not a hands-down success at Homewood, um, but I skied nearly 100 days, and it ended up being, uh, Tahoe's second best winter of at least my young adulthood, um, and, you know, you know, no regrets at all.00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:17.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, I mean, Homo's a serious mountain. I mean, right on the lake, it's dramatic, it has pretty nice chair lifts. But that didn't end up being the future, right?00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:23.000Stuart Winchester: How did Homewood break down, and how did you…00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.000Stuart Winchester: reassemble…00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:35.000Stuart Winchester: like, sort of rethink the business, uh, on a different scale, and I mean both, like, going smaller to get bigger, if that makes sense.00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:44.000Brian Bensch: Yeah. So the core hypothesis of snow schoolers was always kind of twofold. If you make lessons.00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:52.000Brian Bensch: more interest or demand and potential customers when lessons are affordable.00:28:52.000 --> 00:29:09.000Brian Bensch: I think the same thing is true of lift tickets, and that's why, you know, the places that are still offering $700 lift tickets are thriving. But affordable lessons drives an outsized increase in, you know, lesson visits. And if you pay instructors well, there's no shortage of instructors you can find if you're willing to pay them well.00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:25.000Brian Bensch: What we didn't get right in that 1st year at Homewood was the affordable lesson side of things. We were able to teach lessons at Homewood, but we were offering the normal prices from the year before, which were more or less, I would say, 10% below what Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows up the road was charging.00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:41.000Brian Bensch: Um, and we were not… yeah, we taught a total of, I think, 50 lessons that season, um, which was, you know, better than zero, but certainly not enough to get me too, too excited. Um, and the kind of going smaller to get bigger.00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.000Brian Bensch: Uh, it was a function of, uh…00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:57.000Brian Bensch: my my tiny little hill in the woods called Grand Lebakken, that, as someone who'd grown up skiing Tahoe, I had literally never heard of. I think I'd probably skied in Tahoe 500 days at that point.00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:59.000Brian Bensch: Um, but, uh…00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:02.000Stuart Winchester: And it's right by Palisades, right? It's, like, right across the street, basically.00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:17.000Brian Bensch: Not quite across the street. It is two minutes from the lake, but you can't see the lake from Grand Labaquin. So it's literally like tucked in the way, tucked kind of behind a hill. It is between Alpine Meadows and Homewood, if you look at the map. And it's roughly like 10 minutes from both of them.00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:05.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:08.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:09.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:18.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:23.000Brian Bensch: Um, and as I was winding down that first season with Homewood, I challenged myself, um.00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:39.000Brian Bensch: And, you know, tried to put it on social media, but no one really cared to do a March Madness Sweet 16 circuit, because there, at the time, were 16 unique mountains in Tahoe, and Grand Lebakken was one of the last stops on that circuit, and I forget who told me it existed.00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:34.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:44.000Brian Bensch: Um, but, you know, Grand Lubakken is not a ski resort. Grand Lubakken is a ski.00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:51.000Brian Bensch: Kind of known for its lodging and accommodations business.00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:54.000Stuart Winchester: Hey, Brian, you, uh, you just froze again, but you said Grand Lebakken is a ski…00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:55.000Brian Bensch: Yeah.00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:57.000Stuart Winchester: So just start over from Grand Lebakken is a ski.00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:13.000Brian Bensch: Sure. Grand Labaca is not a ski resort. It is a ski hill or a ski area, as Stuart likes to say. It is two surface lifts. It is roughly 20 acres from the bottom of the hill of Grand Labaca. You can see the entire hill, the entire mountain. What you see is what you get.00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:30.000Brian Bensch: It is not, I would say, exclusively for beginners. The Poma that goes to the top, and it's, I think, roughly 225 feet. I would put it at a solid, you know, a Jackson Hole blue. It is at least a 25 to 30 degree slope.00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:46.000Brian Bensch: and I have seen 12 year olds straight line it and almost die. So it is. It is certainly like there's enough terrain that you could do ski race like training on it, and we do a little bit of that in the winter on weekdays. But it is a ski hill.00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:57.000Brian Bensch: Um, not at all, sort of, no bells and whistles, no high-speed quads, um, just a bunny lift, uh, rope toe, and a, you know, slightly more advanced poma that goes to the top.00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:09.000Brian Bensch: And, uh, spent a good afternoon with, uh, the Parson family back in spring 2017, and I was like, this price is pretty cool, this is cute, and told them about my ideas for ski school.00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:09.000Stuart Winchester: And who are they?00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:25.000Brian Bensch: Chris Parson and Ron Parson. Ron is Chris's father, and has owned the mountain for quite a while, and what Grand Lombachman is known for is, it is more of an accommodations center. It's a lodge and conference center.00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:20.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:42.000Brian Bensch: Uh, with roughly, I think, 150-ish units. Um, and the ski hill is an amenity, uh, along with their pool, along with their spa, along with, like, you know, their, you know, uh, dining areas and so forth. Um, and they've operated the ski area and sled hill, um, for…00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:29.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:55.000Brian Bensch: I think Ron is — the Parson family is going on maybe 30 years. I hope to convince him that he should come on the pod at some point. But he is —.00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:47.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:32:55.000 --> 00:33:12.000Brian Bensch: Their family, you know, is the quintessential mom and pop ski hill ski area sort of operators. When I met them, ski school was run mostly with Chris, who had sort of two group lesson slots a day and a piece of paper for people to sign up in the morning.00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:28.000Brian Bensch: And they were like, you know, we could probably be more organized with this. And I was like, yeah, I think I can help you a little bit. And then the season ended and I went home, had made no money. So, you know, my day job has been in marketing.00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:40.000Brian Bensch: for big and small tech companies for a while. Um, and so I went and had to get a big boy tech job again to, you know, pay for rent. Um, and my Tahoe ski lease was up for the season. So, I went back home.00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:39.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:47.000Brian Bensch: you know, wasn't sure if Snow Solutions was going to continue, kind of just assumed it was a one-year thing, and, you know.00:33:47.000 --> 00:34:03.000Brian Bensch: you know, hadn't talked a ton with Homewood, but I knew, like we weren't gonna you know the business wasn't great. But fast forward October 1st roughly, this time of year the Gm. Gives me a call out of the blue, and I pick up. I'm now at my new day job, and I just play it cool. And I'm like, Oh, yeah.00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:19.000Brian Bensch: Yeah, no, we'll run your ski school this winter. Grant Lebakken did, yeah. So the GM of Grant Lebakken picked up and said, hey, you know, we love meeting you in the spring, and you know, winter's around the corner. Let's talk about, you know, what needs to be done for you guys to run ski school for us this year.00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:08.000Stuart Winchester: Grand Labaquin?00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:10.000Stuart Winchester: Okay, okay.00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:11.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:14.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:20.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm. Right.00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:23.000Brian Bensch: Um, and I remember going home that night being like, huh.00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:33.000Brian Bensch: This is not going to be easy because I'm working 40 to 50 hours a week now at my new job. But skiing in this space is what I love to do.00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:25.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:51.000Brian Bensch: You know, at one point, a quote on the website was the Confucius quote, “If you find a job you love, you'll never work another day.” And, you know, I said, yes, you know, porque no las dos, let's do both. Didn't tell my employer at the time.00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:49.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:34:51.000 --> 00:35:06.000Brian Bensch: Because, you know, don't want to give them reason to question how much time you're putting in. But basically worked, you know, spent many nights, and I was a bad developer at the time. So everything snow schoolers is kind of built in-house from a code perspective.00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:55.000Stuart Winchester: Been there?00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:03.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:23.000Brian Bensch: And, you know, I just, every evening from 6 p.m. to midnight, I'd be plugging away to build the Grand Le Bacon kind of new system that we built that first year. And it worked. You know, year two, we taught.00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:38.000Brian Bensch: I think 300 plus lessons, and we did five times more revenue than year one at Homewood. And again, I was, you know, I only taught probably 2% of lessons because I had my full-time job. Christmas was a fun disaster where.00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:47.000Brian Bensch: all of a sudden, we were sold out every single day, and I was like, uh, I guess I need to figure out how to stop selling lessons, uh, because I hadn't really built that into the model the first year, because we were never sold out.00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:48.000Stuart Winchester: Ah, okay, okay.00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:56.000Brian Bensch: But, you know, we made it work and lots of families had amazing, you know, first experiences learning to slide on snow.00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:06.000Stuart Winchester: So let me zoom out and just tell you why I think this makes sense from my point of view, and then you can color that in with with how Graham Lebakken actually achieved it. I look at…00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:13.000Stuart Winchester: something like the Icon Pass, and they have a partnership with Jackson Hole.00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:22.000Stuart Winchester: but Altera doesn't have to own or operate Jackson Hole, and if a lift breaks, it's not Altera's problem, but they get the benefit of Jackson Hole.00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:25.000Stuart Winchester: on their IconPass. Uh…00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:36.000Stuart Winchester: this model that Grand Lebakken has, there used to be hundreds of ski areas like this, just attached to resorts all across. In this part of the country, there were a ton of them, in the Catskills and the Poconos, and…00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.000Brian Bensch: Okay.00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:42.000Stuart Winchester: most of them, I mean, they frankly weren't super interesting hills, but they…00:36:42.000 --> 00:37:02.000Stuart Winchester: Those resorts found that as God running a ski hill became more complex, it wasn't worth keeping all those pieces and parts as an amenity. So in the case of, of Grand Le Bacon, I, I imagine, you know, you have a couple Pomas, so your market is probably like people who wanted to come to Tahoe in the winter, but aren't necessarily skiers, but maybe want to try it.00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:18.000Stuart Winchester: Right? Because no one's like, hmm, should I go to Palisades or Grand Lebakken today, right? Like it's, it's a very unique place. So, but Grand Lebakken, I mean, if they're going to have a hill, that means they also have to have, you know, a rental shop and they have to have a ski school and instructors. This basically.00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:08.000Brian Bensch: Yeah.00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:21.000Stuart Winchester: Takes the whole ski school, all that labor.00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:23.000Stuart Winchester: all the infrastructure.00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:25.000Stuart Winchester: out of it, and I'd imagine you just…00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:41.000Stuart Winchester: Pay, you know, you just write them a check like a lease, basically like a forest service lease where a skier operates and they, they pay based on what they make to the government. So it, it seems to me like ski areas would love that. And I, and I could think of 100 small ski areas in the country where that would work. That's how I'm understanding this is that.00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:44.000Stuart Winchester: Is that fair? And…00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:47.000Brian Bensch: Yeah, I I would say you more or less hit the nail on the head.00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:47.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:37:48.000 --> 00:38:03.000Brian Bensch: The and and the models the operating model that we've sort of developed, that we are sort of most in favor of is, we do ski school. We take full responsibility for ski school and nothing else.00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:14.000Brian Bensch: we've we've we're not obligated, or we don't have to stick with that model entirely. And at our Frisco location, Colorado. We also do all of rentals.00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:20.000Brian Bensch: And but ski school is what sort of what we love, what we care about.00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:34.000Brian Bensch: And you know, in in other past smaller partnerships we've done. We were responsible for even more of operations, grooming and parking and snow removal is.00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:34.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:40.000Brian Bensch: like very underappreciated. How time consuming, expensive those can be.00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:40.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:50.000Brian Bensch: And so I I am very thankful that Gran Lebakken and our partners at Frisco take responsibility for for grooming, and particularly grooming snowmaking.00:38:50.000 --> 00:39:00.000Brian Bensch: um, and sort of the general operations, uh, lift operations and so forth, are… are never gonna be our sweet spot. Um, and we would happily run the, like.00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:57.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:06.000Brian Bensch: like ski school is often the biggest human part of the organization, because you have a bunch of instructors.00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:22.000Brian Bensch: Uh, and you have to, like, you know, herding cats doesn't happen without effort. Um, and scheduling does not happen, uh, without good software, and a human to supervise the software. Um, and so, yeah, that's been our sweet spot. Um, I likewise, uh, think that there are at least.00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:11.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:16.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:35.000Brian Bensch: a few dozen, if not hundreds, of other small ski areas, whether they're surface lift only, or just small with, like, a single fixed grip lift, that, um, that want to do a better ski school program, and we would love to talk to them.00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:53.000Stuart Winchester: So, so Grand Labakin you've been with ever since, so I'm assuming they've been pretty happy with it. Let's jump across the country to another really weird ski area that probably people don't know exists, that we've been talking about, which is Frisco, which is… you pass by it on the way to Breckenridge, but you won't even see it. It's so small, like.00:39:53.000 --> 00:40:09.000Stuart Winchester: You have to drive around this weird road and it's, you know, underneath a hill. And I've not skied there, but I stopped by after they were closed, uh, a couple years ago. So, so that is not attached to a resort. That's, I think, a city park. So you have a completely different demo there.00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:19.000Stuart Winchester: So who is Frisco trying to serve, and how did you meet that need? And it seems like you've had a long-term relationship with them as well.00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:29.000Brian Bensch: Yes. So we're now going to our fifth season with the town of Frisco. And so, yes, it is a municipally managed ski area and tubing park.00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:42.000Brian Bensch: You can't miss the tubing element when you're driving from getting off I-70 and heading to Breckenridge, but very few people will know that there's beginner ski and snowboarding there as well. I've been to Colorado a good handful of times.00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:48.000Brian Bensch: definitely drove by it once and didn't know they were skiing there. And you know a mutual acquaintance.00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:45.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:40:48.000 --> 00:41:01.000Brian Bensch: post-COVID, when I was talking about, you know what, you know, the world's going remote, maybe I can just, you know, expand snow schoolers without me physically being there all the time. Um, and I was like, huh, have you heard of Frisco? I was like, no, what.00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:58.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:07.000Brian Bensch: And, you know, that was probably two months before our first successful season with Frisco.00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:22.000Brian Bensch: Um, the audience they're serving, to your question, is not nearly as local as you might expect for being, like, a town-run hill. Uh, we certainly have some local programs, but their audience is Summit County visitors.00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:15.000Stuart Winchester: Hmm.00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:35.000Brian Bensch: Who primarily are either not skiers yet, not skiers and swimmers yet, or are brand new and want to get their sort of their ski legs on because someone invited them on a trip to Breck or trip to Copper.00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:52.000Brian Bensch: and they're like, well, I've never skied before. You know a lifting. It's expensive, less expensive. B like, can I get my legs like, you know, get my footing somewhere, and we are smack dab in the middle of, you know, 4 major resorts. In addition to Copper Breck, you've got a base and and.00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:52.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:59.000Brian Bensch: and Keystone around the corner, and we are the affordable alternative for Summit County visitors.00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:03.000Stuart Winchester: It's expensive for a rope tail, by the way, it's like $40 for a lift ticket.00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:01.000Brian Bensch: Um, and the town…00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:07.000Brian Bensch: Sure. Expenses is very relative. That is fair.00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:07.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:08.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, okay.00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:10.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, okay, so, so…00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:21.000Stuart Winchester: you established… that's funny, that's not at all what I expected. I thought it would be, like, bust loads of kids, but I guess they probably have deals with Breckenridge or something. So you've had success.00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:35.000Stuart Winchester: at Frisco and at Grand Labaca, and you've had a couple others that you've been in and out of other than Homewood. Tell us about those, and what did work, and ultimately what didn't work about them.00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:46.000Brian Bensch: Yeah. Let's go with — let's stick with the Colorado trend first, and then we'll come back to Tahoe. There's an awesome little mountain.00:42:46.000 --> 00:43:01.000Brian Bensch: that, I think you know, and and didn't. As you think about your the last ski resorts to open or ski areas to open. I actually think Hoedown Hill is the most recently opened new ski area in the country. It's about an hour north of Denver.00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:06.000Brian Bensch: in Windsor, Colorado, and we worked with them for their 1st 2 seasons.00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:15.000Brian Bensch: Um, and we did not work with them last year. Um, still in touch with them, um, but they are a brand new ski area that is, I would say, a…00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:18.000Brian Bensch: a privately…00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:26.000Brian Bensch: run like you. You could say there's similarities to the Grand Lebakken business model, but on a whole other level of, I would say.00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:40.000Brian Bensch: affluence and like target demo. The Hoedown Hill facility is attached to the Raindance National Golf Course, which I'm not a golfer, but I hear it's a tier one destination golf course.00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:49.000Brian Bensch: They want to build, you know, 4 seasons esque hotel there, and it is a we'll say a bourgeois experience that they're going for with some, you know.00:43:49.000 --> 00:44:06.000Brian Bensch: you know, a good culture vibe there. And I think so long as the management team remains committed, it will continue to grow. They are at the IndyPass, so shout out there, like, it's worth a quick visit if you're flying into Denver with your IndyPass.00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:01.000Stuart Winchester: Yep.00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:07.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:10.000Brian Bensch: Um, and in our first two seasons there, um.00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:12.000Brian Bensch: We did, we did.00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:19.000Brian Bensch: we did okay. But we weren't able to draw the numbers that we saw in Summit County, or anywhere close to them.00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:20.000Stuart Winchester: Hmm. Okay.00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:22.000Brian Bensch: And my conclusion.00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:26.000Brian Bensch: or one of my conclusions is that.00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:39.000Brian Bensch: It is much, much harder to influence the macro kind of tide of skier movements than it is to siphon off.00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:55.000Brian Bensch: not to capture demand in an underserved market in Northern Colorado. You know, it's great that they have Hodown Hill, but there weren't a thousand people looking for affordable lessons in Northern Colorado before Hodown Hill existed.00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:45.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:55.000Stuart Winchester: Hmm. Okay.00:44:55.000 --> 00:45:11.000Brian Bensch: Uh, whereas there's, you know, thousands of Summit County visitors who want more affordable lessons and just don't take lessons today. Um, and so, like, it was… and same thing in Tahoe. Uh, it was much easier, like, we open up for business and, like, we don't have to do much marketing for.00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:04.000Stuart Winchester: You know.00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:25.000Brian Bensch: for the wave of customers to come in, whereas every customer we earned in, uh, in Windsor and Fort Collins area, sort of, we had to hustle to get. There weren't people, like, already looking for affordable skiing there, because it's… it's a suburb of Denver.00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:21.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, that's true.00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:28.000Stuart Winchester: That's so interesting because I.00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:39.000Stuart Winchester: wrote up, and I talked to the folks at Hood on Hill, and they were opening it. And the way I thought… the way they pitched it to me was more of making skiing accessible for locals at an entry level.00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:49.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, they didn't… I mean, I understood that it was attached to this other resort, but my understanding is it was kind of a low-cost thing for the community. I think one mistake they made, and…00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:53.000Stuart Winchester: Maybe you don't want to criticize them, but I think having four carpets.00:45:53.000 --> 00:46:02.000Stuart Winchester: I think they should have had at least one rope tower or T-bar, like, something to serve the terrain park that wasn't so slow. I think that would have gotten them more…00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:04.000Stuart Winchester: Energy on site.00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:18.000Stuart Winchester: And… and had a multiplier effect. I just didn't… I didn't like the four carpets model. I liked the model of putting a ski area there, because otherwise the closest place is, what, like Eldora, and a lift ticket's 180 bucks?00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:30.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, so… so there wasn't… or you go up to Echo, I guess, but that's a pain to get to. So… so I… I don't know, that… that was my… that's my impression of Hoedown so far, is it was, like, a good idea with bad execution.00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:24.000Brian Bensch: Yeah.00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:35.000Brian Bensch: I I think that there's some fairness to that.00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:48.000Brian Bensch: They did a great job with the terrain park, given the resources available. And yes, like, a rope tower right next to the park is always, like, I think, a good idea. And it's something that the town of Frisco invested in, I think.00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:38.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:44.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:46:48.000 --> 00:47:05.000Brian Bensch: 3 years ago, maybe 2 years ago, and it has been wildly popular. And you know, rope toes, you know you don't need to convince me. But I'm I'm with you on the rope toes are the most affordable, accessible way for a ski area to like increase uphill uphill capacity.00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:06.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:17.000Brian Bensch: Um, I think the biggest challenge for Hoedown was… and you'd call this bad luck, um, I would say bad luck more than bad execution, but it is at, you know, 6,000 feet, and uh…00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:24.000Brian Bensch: Natural snowfall in an hour north of Denver is not the most plentiful.00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:25.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:28.000Brian Bensch: And they invested heavily in snowmaking, but you can't fight temps.00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:40.000Brian Bensch: And so, in both of our first two seasons at Hoedown, we opened between January 2nd and January 7th, but we missed Christmas both of those years, and it's really hard to, sort of.00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:57.000Brian Bensch: generate momentum for a ski area when you miss Christmas. Um, and, you know, Mother Nature is the biggest determiner of that. Uh, I'm not positive, but I don't think they got open for Christmas last year, and last year was obviously the worst of the three past seasons. So, um, hoping Mother Nature cooperates better for them this year.00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:44.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:55.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:00.000Stuart Winchester: All right, Brian, so you can keep hunting rope toes.00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:16.000Stuart Winchester: You know, I was having this debate with someone yesterday. A lot of the stats you hear when you point back in time, oh, there was 1,200 ski areas and now there's only 500. It's like, well, a lot of them were little rope toes. Like, most of the lost ski areas in Colorado were just little rope toes that existed. The reason they went away…00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:22.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, is, is not because there, there was some catastrophe in, uh.00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:34.000Stuart Winchester: anywhere other than the fact that there just was better ski areas built, and they're kind of boring. Like, when you just… you get over that pretty quick. Like, 100 vertical foot, wide open run, with a rope tow, unless it has some park features.00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:31.000Brian Bensch: Yeah.00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:47.000Stuart Winchester: you're gonna get over it. And almost all of them, they still exist. And I've been to a lot of them across America, and they're mostly in New England and Midwest, and kind of sprinkled throughout the West, especially in the Pacific Northwest. They're almost all…00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:56.000Stuart Winchester: None of them are actual businesses, almost. Like, they're almost all subsidized, they're a city park, they're owned by a school, they're attached to a resort.00:48:56.000 --> 00:49:01.000Stuart Winchester: My point is, this is not a growth area long term.00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:02.000Stuart Winchester: And…00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:17.000Stuart Winchester: you know, the big ski areas mostly do have really good beginner centers, and they're getting better all the time, right? You see places like Jackson and Big Sky building mid-mountain beginner centers to put people more up in the alpine experience and away from.00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:22.000Stuart Winchester: the chaos of the base. So what I'm getting at here is.00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:24.000Stuart Winchester: Eventually…00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:28.000Stuart Winchester: It seems like you have to get…00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:41.000Stuart Winchester: into a ski area where there's somewhere else to go after the beginner hill's done, right? Or else you're just gonna be teaching pizza French fry forever, and… and I don't think that even the most passionate ski instructor wants to do that, so…00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:49.000Stuart Winchester: And it's funny, because you started at Homewood, and it's like, how do you get back to Homewood is almost the question I'm asking.00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:51.000Stuart Winchester: But I…00:49:51.000 --> 00:50:02.000Stuart Winchester: How do you… First of all, do you agree with that or am I totally missing the point? And second, if you do want to eventually get into bigger operations, what…00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:07.000Stuart Winchester: What are the obstacles to doing so other than the obvious permitting issue we just talked about?00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:20.000Brian Bensch: Yeah, so I would say I 80% agree with you. The 20% carve out would be that Grand Lavaca is still a business and Ron runs it like a business.00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:13.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:18.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:27.000Brian Bensch: And the town of Frisco, even if it's town-operated, is a business that, like, reports its P&L, and they're both, like, pretty thriving.00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:33.000Brian Bensch: medium sized businesses. Snow schoolers is a small business. They're they're certainly, you know, 5 to 10 x bigger.00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:42.000Brian Bensch: And and I think that just like, you know, grade school education is a business.00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:41.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:46.000Brian Bensch: There is a steady stream of families.00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:47.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:50:46.000 --> 00:51:01.000Brian Bensch: You know, kids that, you know, will hopefully have the opportunity to learn to ski. And, you know, I think there's a world for, you know, bump hills, so to speak, to remain thriving in existence without having, you know.00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:13.000Brian Bensch: the Jackson Hole Palisades terrain to keep people forever. As far as you know, snow schoolers and kind of the the lesson ecosystem.00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:06.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:07.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:22.000Brian Bensch: I would say vehemently believe there is an underserved market for intermediate and advanced lessons.00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:22.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:37.000Brian Bensch: at, you know, quote-unquote, real resorts. Um, I'd somewhat be lying if I said I had the answer, uh, to how to break into that, because I probably would have done so already, uh, even if this is my part-time endeavor. Um, but the… in a similar manner to.00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:29.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:44.000Brian Bensch: Uh, you know, how to… you know, we've… we struggled to create demand at Hoedown Hill. Hoedown Hill? Um…00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:43.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:59.000Brian Bensch: It is a completely new endeavor to create demand for that, you know, lifelong skier who skis, you know, 5 to 15 days a year, or maybe even like 10 to 50 days a year, and doesn't think that they need a lesson.00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:01.000Brian Bensch: Um, that is a much sort of.00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:14.000Brian Bensch: harder marketing challenge. But I can guarantee you, unless they are in the top 1% of like wealth. They're not going to pay $1,000. And so that's the like. How do you? How do you like? Come up with the right product?00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:15.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:26.000Brian Bensch: And, you know, when I talk to people on chairlifts, you know, fun skiing, I'll often ask, like, you know, hey, when's the last time you took a lesson now? Yeah, when I was a kid. What would you be willing to pay?00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:42.000Brian Bensch: Uh, you know, to get 20% better at your skiing riding today. It's like, yeah, maybe 50 bucks, maybe 40 bucks, 60 bucks, like, you know. Uh, and there's no mountain that offers that, particularly for, like, the one or two hour segment. Um, and, you know.00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:49.000Brian Bensch: I think there's a lot of experimentation that the bigger mountains could do with ski school to serve that sort of.00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:48.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:52.000Brian Bensch: Latent market, or latent demand, uh…00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:55.000Brian Bensch: I'd love to help, but I'd be lying if I think that.00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:58.000Brian Bensch: Ask a 3rd party to do it for them.00:52:57.000 --> 00:52:59.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:13.000Brian Bensch: And but you know, in the the only thing I think that I am a believer of Einstein's definition of insanity, and and if you do the same thing over over and over again, and expect different results like that's insane.00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:28.000Brian Bensch: Um, and I'd love to see more experimentation with, like, you know, better serving sort of lessons for people that already know how to ski. Um, because that's what… that's what got me addicted. Uh, becoming an instructor made me realize how much more.00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:23.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, I'm.00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:26.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:37.000Brian Bensch: fun I could have and how much more like I still I want to learn to be a better skier this year uh and like everyone that sort of.00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:34.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, I think so.00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:47.000Brian Bensch: really gets sort of addicted to ski instruction. They do it because, like there, it's a lifelong pursuit of learning to like, get better. And most.00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:50.000Brian Bensch: lace gears like don't have that sort of.00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:54.000Brian Bensch: have that spark that I'd love to spread.00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:52.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:53:53.000 --> 00:54:08.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, I guess the cynic in me thinks you're never gonna get the robots to ski. Like, there's too much ego in American skiing, especially among the sort of core demographic of males. But what I… I think what I meant more was, like, okay.00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:24.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, Grand Le Bacon's kind of a novelty, and I get that it's a business, uh, that's attached to it. I, how about like Tahoe Donner, right? So it's, it's, it's not a big resort. It's, you know, right next to Sugar Bowl. It's got 500 vertical feet, like five double.00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:31.000Stuart Winchester: Maybe they don't need the hassle of running a ski school, and the…00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:41.000Stuart Winchester: they have locals, right? Because that's a mountain with interesting terrain, even though it's short vert, where parents would want to go and, like, put their kids in ski school while they go off and ski, even if you don't.00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:57.000Stuart Winchester: get the parents. Is there… do you see opportunity in that? Because there's… there's lots of hills like that, which are not, you know, down the Frisco level, but, you know, if you want to go Summit County, so you have Frisco, and you have, like, Keystone Basin.00:54:57.000 --> 00:55:07.000Stuart Winchester: uh, Breck, but then you also have Granby Ranch, and you have Ski Cooper, and it's like, okay, may… or you have Echo Mountain, maybe those places are sort of the logical next.00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:18.000Stuart Winchester: I don't even know if it's possible to get the really big ones, but, you know, do you see any growth in that? Just tiering up, not to destinations necessarily, but sort of like.00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:21.000Stuart Winchester: ski areas that families actually want to ski a whole season at.00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:23.000Brian Bensch: Yeah, um…00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:28.000Brian Bensch: A few things to come back to your earlier question. Not all of ski school is broken.00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:28.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:30.000Brian Bensch: I visited Granby Ranch.00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:37.000Brian Bensch: last spring, I believe? Maybe it was 2 springs ago. Um, and I've been to Tahoe Donner many a times. Both of those, uh…00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:34.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:36.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:42.000Brian Bensch: mountains have pretty phenomenal ski schools. Like, they don't need our help.00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:50.000Brian Bensch: You know, maybe, you know, maybe there's some cool software things that we're doing that they could, you know, borrow and replicate, but they are thriving.00:55:50.000 --> 00:56:00.000Brian Bensch: learning area programs. And I think there's a like for for the listeners that have, you know, you know.00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:03.000Brian Bensch: young kids that are thinking about when to start in ski school.00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:22.000Brian Bensch: That, I would say, tier of mountain is today, like, if it's not on your radar, it should be, because the affordability, like, they're not gouging people nearly as much as the Tier 1 Icon Epic Resorts are, and every time I've visited them, on a weekend at least.00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:30.000Brian Bensch: Yeah, their fault. They're thriving. And so I don't think that at least the class of the Tahoe Donners and Granbys of the world. I don't think they're broken.00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:38.000Brian Bensch: Other than, you know, yeah, more staff, like, how do you keep scaling? But they are thriving pretty well from what I've seen.00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:36.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, I'm.00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:50.000Stuart Winchester: I could still see some operator… you know, I was talking to the guy who revitalized Steeplechase, and he was saying, you know, we don't have a ski school, and I think I may have even connected you guys, but it's like, you sort of have a ski school in a box you could offer them.00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:51.000Brian Bensch: Yeah.00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:57.000Stuart Winchester: Alright, one more ski school question, and then you can make fun of my charts. Um, so… so, Summit at Snoqualmie.00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:11.000Stuart Winchester: and I'm sure you know this, for some reason, because of, like, it's grandfathered in, because it used to be, like, 92 different ski areas, and now it's… it's one. They have competing ski schools there. It's one of the few… might be the only place in America.00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:16.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, that I'm aware of, at least the only major, you know, it's owned by Boeing. And I've asked Boe.00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:25.000Stuart Winchester: I don't know, we don't really want to have that war. You know, it works. But but what do you think of Summit at Snoqualmie?00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:27.000Stuart Winchester: And is it just?00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:40.000Stuart Winchester: a fringe case, and it doesn't tell us anything useful about how we could maybe change American ski school structure. Any thoughts on that? That's right outside of Seattle, by the way, for folks who don't know.00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:40.000Brian Bensch: Yeah, yeah, uh…00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:43.000Brian Bensch: Now, fun, fun fact.00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:45.000Brian Bensch: You know, in my 1st year of.00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:52.000Brian Bensch: researching this space and figuring out what I was gonna do. Uh, the Pacific Northwest, and Snoqualmie in particular, was sort of.00:57:52.000 --> 00:58:08.000Brian Bensch: Number one, I'm like, I need to get up there and figure out, like, what they're doing, why, how they made it work, and how do we do that in Tahoe? That was my, like, year one thesis. I finally got up there just before the world shut down with COVID.00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:03.000Stuart Winchester: Yes.00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:11.000Brian Bensch: Knocked on doors, had some good conversations.00:58:11.000 --> 00:58:23.000Brian Bensch: And and you're correct like there are at least 6 or 7, maybe even more independent ski schools. They all have their own little lodge building. They're all primarily seasonal programs.00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:33.000Brian Bensch: And they do. They still do a good deal of the sort of transportation coordination. You know that whole market is, you know, Seattle and Seattle suburbs, you know, coming up.00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:36.000Stuart Winchester: Right off the interstate. Yeah.00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:45.000Brian Bensch: to the mountains right off the interstate. It's it's as sort of like convenient as you could imagine. And more or less the answer I got was, we've done it this way.00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:40.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:48.000Brian Bensch: Uh, but we're not looking to make it more this way.00:58:49.000 --> 00:58:51.000Brian Bensch: And you know they.00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:52.000Stuart Winchester: That was the answer from Boyne or from the ski schools?00:58:52.000 --> 00:59:08.000Brian Bensch: Uh, it was… I would say both. There was a, uh, like, the first party unoperated, like, Snoqualmie Ski School manager, like, told me that. And there was a person who coordinated, basically, was the Boyne representative for the seven other independents.00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:09.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:11.000Brian Bensch: And it was like, yeah, we're not, you know, we're not inviting new people.00:59:11.000 --> 00:59:18.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, and in case anyone from the ski schools at Summit is listening to this, don't run to Guy Lawrence or Steven Kirchner and be like.00:59:11.000 --> 00:59:13.000Brian Bensch: Um, okay.00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:33.000Stuart Winchester: Stu Winchester said that you said this. I'm paraphrasing, and that's my take, is that they don't want that war. What they said was probably something like, our ski schools do a great job, and we're so happy to work with them. So don't run that back to them. This is just my take on it.00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:23.000Brian Bensch: Yeah.00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:31.000Brian Bensch: Yep.00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:37.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, that they don't want to fight you, and I think they're smart not to.00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:43.000Brian Bensch: Yeah. The thing I would probably acknowledge is when a…00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:47.000Brian Bensch: Sierra is running a…00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:54.000Brian Bensch: a well executed, operationally efficient ski school.00:59:53.000 --> 00:59:54.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:59:54.000 --> 01:00:00.000Brian Bensch: They don't necessarily need third parties to come in and, like, try to do it better.01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:02.000Brian Bensch: Okay.01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:06.000Brian Bensch: However, there is a short term sort of.01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:09.000Brian Bensch: financially motivated incentive.01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:15.000Brian Bensch: to run a, I would say, less at scale, more profitable ski area over time.01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:19.000Brian Bensch: And you know that is sort of.01:00:19.000 --> 01:00:22.000Brian Bensch: what I would attribute to, like, you know, the…01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:37.000Brian Bensch: the non-snow summit at Snoqualmie Mountains that have one ski school and their list prices are $279 for group lesson or $1,299 for private lesson.01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:50.000Brian Bensch: they've decided that it's better for their business to, you know, maximize, like, short-term financials over long-term bringing skiers in the market. Um, and the history of Snoqualmie was, you know.01:00:50.000 --> 01:01:05.000Brian Bensch: Because it was like this, and because the ski schools were busing kids, you know, from school to the mountain afternoon, and, like, handling the very messy logistics and operations, that, like, they saw that as valuable and let them keep doing that.01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:12.000Brian Bensch: But from a business perspective, it's just more profitable, at least in the short term, to teach fewer lessons at higher margin.01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:17.000Stuart Winchester: So to end on this thought on ski lessons.01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:27.000Stuart Winchester: I think they're…

Join the Conversation at 303-477-5600 or text to 307-200-8222 Monday-Friday, 3 p.m.- 6 p.m. MT. https://RushToReason.com HOUR 1 Two 3½-Star Movies—but One Dog Nearly Steals the Entire Show. John and Andy opened the hour discussing the Colorado GOP's planned opt-out from the 2028 open primary system. Andy argued that the change could dramatically reduce how many Republican voters participate in selecting candidates and discussed potential financial and political consequences for the party. Then it's all about the movies. Brad Pitt is stranded deep in the Alaskan wilderness with an unforgettable military dog, while two lifelong friends enter a mysterious animated world where their memories are disappearing. This week, Andy Peth puts Heart of the Beast and Forgotten Island through his 5-Star rating system. Which movie delivers the stronger story, which one earns Andy's recommendation, and could Odin be one of the most memorable movie dogs in years? Find the complete breakdown of Andy's Movie Reviews ➡️ https://www.rushtoreason.com/movie-reviews-2/ Movie Review Timestamps 11:57 — Forgotten Island 27:24 — Heart of the Beast HOUR 2 The Ultimate Survival Movie Showdown: From Cast Away to Zombieland. The Friday crew kicks off the hour with NFL picks as Andy Peth, Richard Rush, and Josh debate a packed slate of games, disagreeing over everything from the Chargers and Packers to the Broncos, Rams, Eagles, Bears, Cowboys, and Ravens. Injuries, struggling offenses, surprising defenses, and a few bold upset predictions make this week's picks especially unpredictable. Then the show turns into a massive celebration of favorite survival movies. Zombieland gets things started before the conversation races through classics, disaster movies, war stories, horror, science fiction, true stories, and wilderness adventures. Cast Away, Apollo 13, 47 Meters Down, The Book of Eli, Unbroken, Gravity, Society of the Snow, The Martian, A Quiet Place, 127 Hours, Lone Survivor, Alien, Twister, and dozens more make the cut. Listeners pile on with their own choices, proving that “survival movie” can mean everything from escaping sharks and wolves to surviving war, natural disasters, zombies, vampires—or the end of civilization.

Join the Conversation at 303-477-5600 or text to 307-200-8222 Monday-Friday, 3 p.m.- 6 p.m. MT. https://RushToReason.com HOUR 1 Two 3½-Star Movies—but One Dog Nearly Steals the Entire Show. John and Andy opened the hour discussing the Colorado GOP's planned opt-out from the 2028 open primary system. Andy argued that the change could dramatically reduce how many Republican voters participate in selecting candidates and discussed potential financial and political consequences for the party. Then it's all about the movies. Brad Pitt is stranded deep in the Alaskan wilderness with an unforgettable military dog, while two lifelong friends enter a mysterious animated world where their memories are disappearing. This week, Andy Peth puts Heart of the Beast and Forgotten Island through his 5-Star rating system. Which movie delivers the stronger story, which one earns Andy's recommendation, and could Odin be one of the most memorable movie dogs in years? Find the complete breakdown of Andy's Movie Reviews ➡️ https://www.rushtoreason.com/movie-reviews-2/ Movie Review Timestamps 11:57 — Forgotten Island 27:24 — Heart of the Beast HOUR 2 The Ultimate Survival Movie Showdown: From Cast Away to Zombieland. The Friday crew kicks off the hour with NFL picks as Andy Peth, Richard Rush, and Josh debate a packed slate of games, disagreeing over everything from the Chargers and Packers to the Broncos, Rams, Eagles, Bears, Cowboys, and Ravens. Injuries, struggling offenses, surprising defenses, and a few bold upset predictions make this week's picks especially unpredictable. Then the show turns into a massive celebration of favorite survival movies. Zombieland gets things started before the conversation races through classics, disaster movies, war stories, horror, science fiction, true stories, and wilderness adventures. Cast Away, Apollo 13, 47 Meters Down, The Book of Eli, Unbroken, Gravity, Society of the Snow, The Martian, A Quiet Place, 127 Hours, Lone Survivor, Alien, Twister, and dozens more make the cut. Listeners pile on with their own choices, proving that “survival movie” can mean everything from escaping sharks and wolves to surviving war, natural disasters, zombies, vampires—or the end of civilization.

Curtis breaks down Bertrand Russell's blueprint for globalist control that today's elites are still following.  The agenda Russell laid out, starting in 1931, began with his infamous goal of dumbing down the American people to have an “unshakable conviction that snow is black.”  Russell called for using food as a weapon, implementing population control, leveraging dependency, and eliminating dissidents who refuse to comply.  Curtis also answers subscriber questions, discusses the rising worldwide assault on homeschooling, and comments on polls that show Americans are worried about our country and want the Iran War to end.

This week, with Jirelga's expert guidance leading the way, the party ventures into—and across—the Endless Gulf on their journey toward the Court of Ether. But the Darklands always seem to have a surprise waiting around every corner. Speaking of surprises... what's all this white stuff covering the ground? Snow? Dust? Nope. Bat guano. Lots and lots of bat guano.

AMAPIANO EXCLUSIVE

The guys welcome Jeff Bays of Arctic to the show to take us through all the updates and upgrades for the 2026/2027 Razorback, including the new Fisher mount and the new 82K Wiring harness for fleet simplicity!

Dr Wardy

This Friends Like Us, Marina Franklin is chatting with comedians Rob Haze and Gina Brillon about everything from comedy dynamics to Hispanic Heritage Month. Get ready for laughs and thought-provoking insights! Rob Haze is a comedian from Atlanta, Georgia. He is a writer/ performer on Sherman's Showcase on IFC. He was on the Sneaker Sketch  show Sneak This on B/R Kicks. Rob has a stand up album called Haze-o-pedia. Rob's standup has been featured on The Tonight Show starring Jimmy Fallon, The Late Late Show, Comedy Central, and Viceland. Rob has a podcast called The Inconsistent Podcast with Rob Haze available everywhere.  Gina Brillon is a comedian, host, writer and producer born and raised in the Bronx, New York. Brillon has been performing stand-up since the age of 17 and in 2012 became the first Latina winner of NBC's stand-up for Diversity showcase. Named a "new face" at the 2013 Montreal Just for Laughs festival, she went on to release her debut Hour special 'Gina Brillon: Pacifically Speaking' in 2014. Her HBO special 'Gina Brillon: easily offended' was released in 2019 as part of the entre nos series and in 2020 the critically acclaimed 'Gina Brillon; the floor is lava' premiered on Amazon and went on to become an imagen award nominee and a 2021 Gracie award winner. Her latest release 'Gina Brillon; Mind Your Business' premiered on 800pgm earlier this year amassing over a quarter million views in the first month. Brillon's tv roles include guest stars on CBS's Kevin Can Wait, ABC's the conners and appearances on The View, Late Night with Seth Meyers and Jimmy Kimmel Live. Most recently, in 2023, she guest starred in the Disney holiday movie 'Dashing Through the Snow' alongside Lil Rel Howery and Ludacris. In 2021, during its 16th season, Gina became the first Puerto Rican comedian to be named a finalist on NBC's America's Got Talent. Always hosted by Marina Franklin - One Hour Comedy Special: Single Black Female ( Amazon Prime, CW Network), TBS's The Last O.G, Last Week Tonight with John Oliver, Hysterical on FX, The Movie Trainwreck, Louie Season V, The Jim Gaffigan Show, Conan O'Brien, Stephen Colbert, HBO's Crashing, and The Breaks with Michelle Wolf. Writer for HBO's 'Divorce' and the new Tracy Morgan show on Paramount Plus: 'Crutch  

Guest: Dr. Stephen Nesbitt Five years ago, Dr. Steve Nesbitt joined us to unpack the fundamentals of radar meteorology. Since then, atmospheric science has undergone a massive evolution moving from how we capture severe weather to how we decode it using artificial intelligence and cloud computing. As a UIUC Professor, incoming Associate Dean, and newly named AMS Fellow, Steve has spent his career studying Earth's most explosive storms. Today, he's leading a new frontier in meteorology, building open-source tools like Radar DataTree to turn decades of legacy radar files into AI-ready intelligence. We're sitting down with Steve to catch up on what's changed since his last visit, how AI is reshaping weather science, and the physics behind the Midwest's wild tornado season.Chapters00:00 Introduction and Guest Background01:05 How Dr. Nesbitt Became a Weather Geek03:59 AI's Impact on Meteorology and Weather Resilience06:57 Recent Tornado Trends in Illinois and the Midwest09:58 Break 109:59 Remote Sensing Technologies in Severe Weather Study15:35 Introduction to Radar Data Tree and Its Applications20:53 Stakeholder Engagement: Insurance and Water Resources22:08 Current Research Projects and Urban Resilience26:17 Break 226:17 Future Advances in Satellite and Radar Technology29:18 Climate Change and Severe Weather Patterns32:57 The Evolving Role of Academics in Public Engagement35:51 Resources and Final ThoughtsResourcesAtmosScale.ai - https://atmoscale.aiEd Zipser - Google Scholar - https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,11&qsp=5&q=edward+zipser&qst=ibRelampago Project - https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/bams/102/8/BAMS-D-20-0029.1.xmlRadar Data Tree - https://atmoscale.github.io/radar-datatree/index.htmlNASA Tropical Rainfall Measuring Mission - https://trmm.gsfc.nasa.gov Guest linksLinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/steve-nesbitt-b8a06a54See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It's a bonus! In this special edition episode , Anne Hancock Toomey interviews Warner Thomas, president and CEO of Sutter Health. They start with a note about the first podcast Anne ever hosted - a 2020 conversation with Thomas that reminds us all of how much has changed even as the principles of authentic leadership haven't. From there, Thomas traces his path from a disciplined, outdoorsy childhood in Vermont to pumping gas, plowing snow, and later studying accounting and computer information systems. Like many guests, Thomas hadn't planned on a healthcare career. He instead started with an eye towards investment banking, training at Ernst & Young before making the leap and heading to. Southern New Hampshire Medical Center. There, an early mentor shaped his leadership perspective and professional experience. Later on, Thomas spent 24 years at Ochsner Health, rising to CEO leading major growth and innovation and learning to center strategy on patients and purpose through initiatives like “Power of One,” while prioritizing people during Katrina and COVID. Joining Sutter four years ago, he became the system's first outsider CEO in 40 years. He began his tenure with a deep and thoughtful talent assessment, then built a rapid growth strategy including ambulatory expansion. Throughout it all, Thomas has emphasized communication, trust and the key leadership traits of being humble, hungry, smart and curious. 2:18 Life in California 3:53 Vermont Roots 6:13 First Jobs 10:24 Mentors and Leadership Style 14:29 Learning Mindset and Strategy 17:19 Ochsner Growth Lessons 21:20 Purpose and Culture  25:22 Joining Sutter 31:56 Leadership Traits 34:15 Lightning Round Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lee Redden, Founder of LastFeet joined Grayson Brulte on The Road to Autonomy podcast to discuss solving the last 50 feet of package delivery with a custom-built legged robot designed to ride in the jump seat of a delivery van and carry packages from the curb to the doorstep.After co-founding Blue River Technology and selling it to Deere, Lee returned to building because he believes this is one of the best times ever to build robots. LastFeet's robot walks on four legs with wheels on its feet, so it can climb the high step out of a box truck and then roll quickly and steadily to the door. It learns to walk entirely in simulation, a big change from the hand-calculated kinematics Lee learned in grad school.The inspiration came from delivery drivers. Lee interviewed dozens of drivers and shadowed their routes, then modeled his robot on the runner, the second person who rides in the passenger seat on busy days and carries packages to the door while the driver keeps driving.On day one, the robot sits in the jump seat with no change to how the back of the van is loaded. The driver loads a package, the robot bows at the door to set it on the step, and if it runs into something it can't handle, it asks a remote human for help.The first robot carries 15 pounds, which covers most packages, and runs on an NVIDIA Orin AGX with two-hour hot-swappable batteries. When it's unsure what to do, its safety response is to freeze in place and turn into a table.Episode Chapters0:00 Why Lee Redden Is Building Again02:41 How the LastFeet Robot Works04:56 How to Build a Robot in 202607:27 Testing in Snow and Ice10:00 How the Robot Delivers to Every Doorstep12:43 Riding in the Jump Seat of a Delivery Van15:00 Manufacturing at Scale18:46 Building for Rugged Delivery Vans22:54 LastFeet Business Model29:32 Battery Life and Charging in the Van32:11 What Lee Learned Shadowing 50 Delivery Drivers37:28 Safety and Building Trust With the Public40:18 The Future of LastFeet43:11 AUTNMY AIFollow The Road to Autonomy Indices--------About The Road to AutonomyThe Road to Autonomy is the leading applied intelligence platform covering the convergence of automation, autonomy, and the Autonomy Economy.™.Through our podcasts, newsletter, and proprietary applied intelligence, we set the narrative for institutional investors, industry executives, and policymakers navigating the convergence of automation, autonomy, and economic growth.Join institutional investors and industry leaders who read This Week in The Autonomy Economy every Sunday. Each edition delivers exclusive insight and commentary on the autonomy economy, helping you stay ahead of what's next.Sign up for This Week in The Autonomy Economy newsletterSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A two-year pause on data centers appears on track to pass in Buffalo. Meanwhile, Mayor Ryan's snow plan is late, but how important is it? We asked councilmember Leah Halton-Pope.

In 1916, Marion Lambert was found dead in the snow with cyanide on her hand. Today her ghost still lingers for justice and closure.EPISODE BLOG PAGE (includes sources): https://weirddarkness.com/MarionLambertREAD or DOWNLOAD the full transcript of this episode: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/3t6yt8t5FEATURED STORIES IN THIS EPISODE: Author Troy Taylor tells one of his favorite true ghost tales – it's the haunting story of Marion Lambert, the girl in the snow. (The Girl In The Snow) *** A boy thinks he sees a man in his rearview mirror, but the figure disappears – just to reappear again. And it was then that the terrifying things began to happen to his family. (Angel of Death In The Rearview Mirror) *** Native Americans have a legend of a terrible skinwalker that not only can shapeshift, but also control its victims by thought. (Mind Controlling Skinwalker) *** A girl's sleepover with friends turns into a literal nightmare. Weirdo family member Jacque Sicks tells her story. (Slumber Party of Horror)]CHAPTERS & TIME STAMPS (All Times Approximate)…00:00:00.000 = The Foreboding00:01:18.658 = Show Open00:02:51.847 = The Girl In The Snow00:26:10.950 = Angel Of Death In The Rearview Mirror ***00:28:48.793 = Mind Controlling Skinwalker00:36:05.152 = Slumber Party of Horror00:40:30.757 = Show Close*** = Begins immediately after inserted ad breakLISTEN ON PODCAST APPS: Look for this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Amazon Music, Pandora, TuneIn Radio, and other podcast apps. Get a list of free listening apps here: https://weirddarkness.com/wdapps*No AI Voices Are Used In The Narration Of This Podcast*SOURCES and RESOURCES:“The Girl In The Snow” by Troy Taylor: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/3vmuw7v2“Angel of Death In The Rearview Mirror” by Zarza: http://bit.ly/2K9c0xM“Mind Controlling Skinwalker” by Ellen Lloyd http://bit.ly/2HHNO3T and A. Sutherland http://bit.ly/2W293Bs for Ancient Pages“Slumber Party of Horror” by Jacque Sicks, submitted to WeirdDarkness.com (Over time links may become invalid, disappear, or have different content. I always make sure to give authors credit for the material I use whenever possible. If I somehow overlooked doing so for a story, or if a credit is incorrect, please let me know and I will rectify it in these show notes immediately. Some links included above may benefit me financially through qualifying purchases.)WeirdDarkness® is a registered trademark. Copyright ©2026, Weird Darkness.Originally aired: May 29, 2019LIKE WHAT YOU'RE HEARING? WEIRD DARKNESS posts episodes 7 DAYS A WEEK! Listen FREE wherever you get podcasts or visit https://weirddarkness.com/listen. • Paranormal • True Crime • Ghosts • UFOs • Cryptids • Unexplained • Want even more? Become an OFFICIAL WEIRDO for commercial-free episodes, bonus episodes, weeknight live chats, audiobooks & more at https://WeirdDarkness.com/OFFICIAL

The Continental TerrainContact A/T2 brings more aggressive tread, Three-Peak Mountain Snowflake certification and a 65,000-mile limited mileage warranty to Continental's premium all-terrain tire lineup. But can a tougher-looking truck and SUV tire keep the quiet ride drivers want for their daily commute?That's the question Tire Review's David Sickels takes to Charlotte, North Carolina, for a launch featuring Tyler Hubbard, the MLS All-Star Game and plenty of conversation about what drivers actually want from an all-terrain tire.David talks with Continental's Brian Beierwaltes, head of marketing for U.S. passenger and light truck tires, and Bjoern Glaeser, head of product management, about the TerrainContact A/T2's changes from the original TerrainContact A/T and the customers Continental designed it for.Features of the TerrainContact A/T2 include:• Ride comfort and noise: Continental says the A/T2 stays as quiet as its predecessor despite its more aggressive tread.• Tread design: A bolder shoulder, deeper tread, thicker blocks and more outer-shoulder rubber aim to support traction and durability.• Snow capability: High-density siping adds biting edges, and the A/T2 carries Three-Peak Mountain Snowflake certification.• Wet and snow performance: Continental reports a 3% improvement in wet braking and a 10% improvement in snow performance over the predecessor.• Mileage warranty: The limited mileage warranty increases from 60,000 miles on the original A/T to 65,000 miles on the A/T2.• Sizes and fitments: Continental is launching 28 new A/T2 sizes while retaining 11 original A/T sizes for certain OE trail packages and niche fitments. Continental says the combined 39-size offering covers more than 90% of premium all-terrain buyers.For tire dealers, the conversation centers on a familiar customer: someone who wants off-road capability and a tougher look, but spends most of the week commuting, running errands and driving on pavement.What are your all-terrain customers asking for? Quiet comfort, off-road traction or the aggressive look? Tell us in the comments, and subscribe to Tire Review for more What's Treading.www.tirereview.comwww.hunter.com

On a bitter winter morning in London, a respected banker arrives at Baker Street half‑mad with terror. In his keeping was one of the most precious ornaments of the British Empire; now it lies twisted and mutilated, and every sign points to betrayal within his own house. Snow has fallen, secrets have stirred, and somewhere between a locked bureau and a silent suburban garden, honour, love, and ruin have become entangled. Holmes listens, then walks out into the cold to read what the night has written on the world. First published in The Strand Magazine in May 1892, “The Adventure of the Beryl Coronet” later appeared as the eleventh tale in The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes. It sits among the early Strand stories that fixed Holmes and Watson in the public imagination. Arthur Conan Doyle (1859–1930) was a Scottish physician and writer who created Sherlock Holmes while practising medicine in Southsea. His work ranges from detective fiction and historical romance to science fiction and spiritualist writings. Buy the print version of my Sherlock Holmes story here https://payhip.com/b/6fMUh In collection Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Skate style is everywhere, but can clothing still tell us who actually skates? Read more at 1923MainStreet.comShop 1923 Main Street for Snow, Skate and Surf t-shirts, hoodies and sweatshirts.Thank you for listening to the Travel Style Podcast by 1923MainStreet.com.Shop unique and original travel inspired t-shirts, sweatshirt, hoodies and more at 1923 Main Street.Follow along on X, Instagram, Pinterest and Facebook.Thank you for listening and always remember to roam freely and ride boldly.Mike Belobradic--Media provided by Jamendo

The guys sit down with a Young Gun who is absolutely crushing it! Louis DiMattio of LCD Property Management Services talks about his snow business, and also helps the guys review S&S Snow and Ice Solutions Annual De-icing Day last week!

Send us Fan Mail MJ & Snow talk about visiting the Punk Rock Museum in Vegas where they got a guided tour from Laura Jane Grace of Against Me ! They discuss what a great time they had, Laura's career, their discovery of punk rock, Tom Petty, the Ed Sheeran controversy, Robert Kraft, craft beers and science experiments on humans  Follow us at Reality Redemption on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, BlueSky and Tik Tok

I welcome Daniel Vaughn, the barbecue editor at Texas Monthly, and we focus on the regional diversity of Texas barbecue. I ask how he moved from architecture to writing and how a blog grew into his job. We discuss how I and he judge barbecue places, with attention to brisket, sausage, and local specialties in East, Central, and South Texas. We share stories about pitmasters and characters, including Tootsie at Snow's, and we explain why those human stories matter. I critique trends like oven‑baked brisket and the recent popularity of stuffed turkey legs. We conclude that barbecue is strong, varied, and rooted in local tradition, and that the people who make it keep the craft alive.Links referenced in this episode:paintedhillsnaturalbeef.comheritagesteel.usgunterwilhelms.combbqnationjt.comthecowboycook.comoregondungeness.orgThis podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Episode 2855 - Vinnie Tortorich and Chris Shaffer welcome two callers to discuss timing protein intake, doing HIIT the right way, and "parasite cleanses." https://vinnietortorich.com/2026/09/hiit-the-right-way-episode-2855 PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS Pure Vitamin Club Pure Coffee Club NSNG® Foods VILLA CAPPELLI EAT HAPPY KITCHEN YOU CAN WATCH THIS EPISODE ON YOUTUBE - @FitnessConfidential Podcast Vinnie's workout videos are available to purchase! Choose from a 2-day, 4-day, or 6-day workout–or buy all three at a discount! TO PURCHASE VINNIE'S WORKOUT VIDEOS, CLICK THIS LINK: https://vinnietortorich.com/workout HIIT the Right Way Kevin is the first caller. (6:00) He is on a slow but steady weight loss journey. How much does the timing of meals post-workout matter? Intermittent fasting has benefits, but many people take it too far. (12:00) They discuss HIIT training and the best way to do it. (16:00) HIIT training is great for improving heart rate and building mitochondria. Snow skiing is a favorite activity. (30:00) Jane is the next call-in guest. (35:00) Stress has been a part of her life since she has a seriously ill family member. She's gained some weight because of stress eating. She's heard claims about a "parasite cleanse" and wants to know Vinnie's thoughts on it. Vinnie is considering opening the VIP group again for his birthday. Join the waiting list. https://vinnietortorich.com/vip/ Check out the Aletha Hip HookTM that Vinnie uses to reduce pain and increase mobility: You can purchase your own through Vinnie's website here: https://vinnietortorich.com/hook Anna's products are now linked to PureVitamin Club's website. You can also purchase them under the "Food and Snacks" section. https://purevitaminclub.com/collections/food-and-snacks Vinnie hopes to add other products as well, all of which will be health-related. The NSNG® VIP GROUP IS NOW CLOSED AGAIN AS OF SUNDAY, MARCH 15TH Anna's next cookbook, Eat Happy Cocktail Hour, is filled with cocktails, mocktails, and appetizers and is available for pre-order right now. If you pre-order, you'll get bonus goodies! You can pre-order from a wide variety of booksellers at https://eathappycocktailhour.com/ Please save your receipt from wherever you pre-order; you'll need it for your bonuses! The physical release date is October 2026 You can book a consultation with Vinnie to get guidance on your goals. https://vinnietortorich.com/phone-consultation-2/ More News Serena has added some clothing and beauty product suggestions to Vinnie's Amazon Recommended Products link. Self Care, Beauty, and Grooming Products that Actually Work! https://www.amazon.com/shop/vinnietortorich/list/3GPVU29UHHPMY?ref_=aipsflist Don't forget to check out Serena Scott Thomas on Days of Our Lives on Peacock. "Dirty Keto" is available on Amazon! You can purchase or rent it here.https://amzn.to/4d9agj1 Please watch, rate, and review it! Eat Happy Italian, Anna's second cookbook, is available! You can go to https://eathappyitalian.com You can order it from Vinnie's Book Club. https://amzn.to/3ucIXm Anna's recipes are in her cookbooks, on her website, and on Substack —they will spice up your day! https://annavocino.substack.com/ PURCHASE DIRTY KETO (2024) The documentary launched in August 2024! Order it TODAY! This is Vinnie's fourth documentary in just over five years. Visit my new Documentaries HQ to find my films everywhere: https://vinnietortorich.com/documentaries Then, please share my fact-based, health-focused documentary series with your friends and family. Additionally, the more views it receives, the better it ranks, so please watch it again with a new friend! REVIEWS: Please submit your REVIEW after you watch my films. Your positive REVIEW does matter! PURCHASE BEYOND IMPOSSIBLE (2022) Visit my new Documentaries HQ to find my films everywhere: https://vinnietortorich.com/documentaries FAT: A DOCUMENTARY 2 (2021) Visit my new Documentaries HQ to find my films everywhere: https://vinnietortorich.com/documentaries FAT: A DOCUMENTARY (2019) Visit my new Documentaries HQ to find my films everywhere: https://vinnietortorich.com/documentaries

The snowflakes are BACK, and Salt Lake City is already bringing the heat! Carlos reunites with Monica Garcia to break down the emotional RHOSLC season premiere, from Mary Cosby’s heartbreaking journey and why Monica thinks she deserved the center snowflake to Lisa and John Barlow’s surprising marriage confession. PLUS, Bronwyn is single and dating (around), Whitney is trying to make amends, and Heather debuts her new man! It’s a premiere full of snowflakes, shade and plenty of opinions as Moni-Carlo officially returns! Tune in now!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What happens when you build your life around the things that make you come alive - not someday, but right now? Monica Aguilar, known on trail as "Moss," is an artist, long-distance hiker, and everyday explorer who has intentionally built a flexible life around creativity and adventure. After graduating from UMass Amherst, she spent a season working in Alaska before thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail in 2018. Since then, she's continued exploring on foot and by bike, including the Pacific Crest Trail and more than 3,000 miles on the Continental Divide Trail. In this conversation, Monica and I talk about what keeps drawing her back to long trails - the community, the challenge, the highest highs and lowest lows, and the chance to experience a place slowly rather than simply passing through it. We also get into fear and risk, including difficult snow travel on the PCT and the decision to change course in Colorado's San Juans when challenge began moving beyond her comfort zone. But Monica's story is also about designing a life around what matters. She's built enough flexibility into her work, spending, and art business to disappear onto a trail for months at a time while still saving for what she calls "future Moss." That philosophy overlaps beautifully with something I talk about often: living your great life right now without ignoring the future. We also explore the connection between adventure and Monica's art. Through Chasing Trails Art, she creates murals, window paintings, and nature-inspired work influenced by the places she encounters along the way. Even there, she finds another version of doing hard things - the uncertainty and struggle of creating something that didn't exist before. Episode Highlights 00:00 — Meet Monica Aguilar: artist, thru-hiker, and unconventional career builder 08:30 — Working in Alaska and discovering space for creativity 14:00 — Taking on the Appalachian Trail as a relatively new backpacker 15:00 — Trail community, rainy days, and learning to embrace uncomfortable conditions 18:00 — Solo female hiking, trusting your instincts, and uncomfortable encounters 24:00 — Why Monica keeps choosing long-distance trails and hard things 25:30 — How "Moss" became her trail name—and why you should apparently pet the moss 29:00 — The PCT, CDT, and squeezing every last drop out of an adventure 33:00 — Snow travel, fear, and knowing the difference between growth and too much risk 39:00 — How Monica financially makes months-long adventures possible 42:00 — Saving for "future Moss" while still living for "now Moss" 44:00 — Turning nature and travel into Chasing Trails Art 50:00 — Why making art can sometimes feel harder than hiking thousands of miles 58:00 — Dreaming about a traveling mural tour and combining work with adventure 59:00 — Living your great life right now About Monica Aguilar Monica Aguilar is a Massachusetts-based artist, thru-hiker, and adventurer whose travels inspire much of her creative work. She has thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail and Pacific Crest Trail and completed more than 3,000 miles on the Continental Divide Trail. Through Chasing Trails Art, Monica creates murals, seasonal window paintings, and nature-inspired artwork drawn from the landscapes and experiences she encounters along the way. Connect with Monica Aguilar Chasing Trails Art Instagram Facebook Connect with the On Adventure Podcast Hosted by Josh Self, financial advisor and everyday explorer. Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and all major streaming platforms. Follow along on Instagram and Facebook for clips and behind-the-scenes content, connect on Facebook at On Adventure Podcast with Josh Self, and find Josh on LinkedIn. If this episode resonated with you, leave a review and share it with someone who might need the reminder that you can prepare for the future while still living your great life right now.

For the latest Contrarian episode, Norm Eisen, Rep. Tom Malinowski, and Jen Rubin join Harry to stake out their cautious optimism about Trump's declining strength. The panel takes stock of the administration's vital Supreme Court defeat in the mail-in ballots case before looking at the ways the wheels are falling off the DOJ's opaque "grand conspiracy" investigation. Finally, with rising gas prices lifting Democrats' midterm hopes, the group assess what actions Democrats need to take if they regain the House or Senate come November. Mentioned in this episode:The Contrarian.Harry's column about the mail-in ruling.Harry's Substack Live with Steve Vladeck about the mail-in ruling. Jen's column about how Democrats should use the power of the purse.Tom's article about what Democrats should do with a majority. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast likes it when ski areas are run by people who are good at running ski areas. Please subscribe to the email newsletter to get new posts the moment they're live. Thank you for supporting independent ski journalism.About CamelbackOwned by: EPR Properties, managed by Peregrine Hospitality (formerly KSL Resorts)Located in: Tannersville, PennsylvaniaYear founded: 1963Pass affiliations:* Ikon Pass: 7 days, no blackouts* Ikon Base Pass: 5 days, holiday blackoutsClosest neighboring ski areas: Shawnee Mountain (:24), Jack Frost (:26), Big Boulder (:27), Skytop Lodge (:29), Saw Creek (:37), Blue Mountain (:41), Pocono Ranchlands (:43), Montage (:44), Hideout (:51), Elk Mountain (1:05), Bear Creek (1:09), Ski Big Bear (1:16)Base elevation: 1,252 feetSummit elevation: 2,079 feetVertical drop: 827 feetSkiable Acres: 166Average annual snowfall: 50 inchesTrail count: 45, with three new trails for 2026-27 (not on the map below, but discussed on the podcast)Lift count: 12 (1 high-speed six-pack, 1 high-speed quad, 1 fixed-grip quad, 2 triples, 2 doubles, 5 carpets – view Lift Blog's inventory of Camelback's lift fleet)For reference:The Zoom transcript (click “transcript” above for the Substack transcript, then click on any text block to teleport to the associated point in the video; timestamps below DO NOT MATCH THE VIDEO)00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:37.000Stuart Winchester: Welcome to The Storm! I'm your host, Stuart Winchester. Today is Wednesday, September 16th, 2026, and I've got a really good show for you today.00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:45.000Stuart Winchester: we're going to talk some Pennsylvania skiing. And Pennsylvania skiing is a really interesting thing. As I travel around the country.00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:56.000Stuart Winchester: and ski at all these different places in the Midwest, and out West, and in New England, and in the Mid-Atlantic. Uh, and as I talk to folks who… who don't ski that much, or only ski at the big mountains.00:03:56.000 --> 00:04:05.000Stuart Winchester: I'll often bring up some experience I had at a Pennsylvania ski area. Pennsylvania has quite a few ski areas as 21.00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:20.000Stuart Winchester: public chairlift-served ski areas, and it does 2.6 million skier visits on average per year. That is more than any state except for Colorado, California, Utah, Vermont, and New York.00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:26.000Stuart Winchester: It's more than Washington, it's more than Oregon, it's more than Montana, it's more than New.00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:39.000Stuart Winchester: So, Pennsylvania is a really important ski state, which is probably why Vail Resorts owns 8 ski areas there, because it is really close to a lot of population centers. In western PA, you have Pittsburgh.00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:54.000Stuart Winchester: and Seven Springs, and Laurel, and Hidden Valley, and then you have Philadelphia on the east side, and you can also draw up from Baltimore and D.C. for Round Top and Whitetail. And uh…00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:57.000Stuart Winchester: And Jack Frost's Big Boulder up in the Poconos. So…00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:00.000Stuart Winchester: Vail has a big presence there.00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:15.000Stuart Winchester: Icon has a presence there with Camelback and Blue Mountain. Uh, and then Indy Pass just signed their 8th ski area in Pennsylvania with Spring Mountain, uh, down near Philadelphia. So, so it's, it's a place where a lot of skiers start.00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:19.000Stuart Winchester: And it's a little bit of a funny place to ski, because…00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:29.000Stuart Winchester: it tends to have an outsized number of novice skiers, which is great. They're very good at doing that. Uh, but it can make it a little chaotic.00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:38.000Stuart Winchester: And the lift lines can get a little crazy, and people are all over the hill, and sometimes they're walking down the hill because they're frustrated and they're giving up.00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:40.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, and…00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:44.000Stuart Winchester: You take that as your baseline in Pennsylvania.00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:49.000Stuart Winchester: And you had any sort of complications.00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:54.000Stuart Winchester: And things get out of hand really quickly. And in general.00:05:55.000 --> 00:06:00.000Stuart Winchester: For that reason, the ski areas that have survived in Pennsylvania.00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:07.000Stuart Winchester: are among the best operators in the world, and I would put that up against anyone.00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:14.000Stuart Winchester: It's a very, very challenging environment, not only because you have a high number of novice skiers.00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:17.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, but also because you have…00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:31.000Stuart Winchester: not a ton of snow, sometimes in the west part of the state, where there's higher elevation, they do get a lot of snow, but… but not as a rule, you couldn't count on it for natural snow. Uh, you get a lot of rain, you get a lot of warm-ups.00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:35.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, and… and you, in general, have to rely on…00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:42.000Stuart Winchester: a very short season, generally mid-December-ish to mid-March-ish.00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:45.000Stuart Winchester: And the skiers there…00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:52.000Stuart Winchester: They're they're accustomed to a pretty high standard, so.00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:57.000Stuart Winchester: So when things do get out of control, uh…00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:04.000Stuart Winchester: They really rebelled, and they really noticed. So, a couple years ago, this is what happened at Camelback. So, Camelback…00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:09.000Stuart Winchester: You know, I don't generally do ops stories, uh…00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:10.000Stuart Winchester: You know.00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:19.000Stuart Winchester: ski area didn't groom this run, or they haven't opened this lift, or, uh, you know, they usually let this bump up, but they don't, or, or…00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:27.000Stuart Winchester: you know, they… they are trying to save money, or they're being cheap. I generally don't bother with those, even though I get a lot of messages.00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:32.000Stuart Winchester: Complaining about things like that, because there's almost always a pretty good reason.00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:38.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, and it's almost always temporary, and it's really not worth the effort.00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:48.000Stuart Winchester: to write the story if I'm just writing about, you know, why Stratton or Mount Snow or Magic Mountain didn't open a certain lift on a certain day.00:07:48.000 --> 00:08:04.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, it's, it's a lot to track down and it's a lot of, uh, this person said this and the other person said that. It's just not the kind of thing that I'm want to cover with the storm, right? I want to do bigger stories. I want to do trend stories. I want to look at the culture and evolution of skiing.00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:11.000Stuart Winchester: And the passes, and all the infrastructure, and all the fun stuff. So I don't generally cover the day-to-day stuff, just because…00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:18.000Stuart Winchester: The ski areas that remain in 2026 are, for the most part, run by really good operators.00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:32.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, it… because… and they've survived. Most of the bad ski areas that were either mismanaged or were in the wrong places, they went out of business a long time ago, which is why the number of ski areas has been stable for around 25 years now in America.00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:35.000Stuart Winchester: So I but I started to notice.00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:45.000Stuart Winchester: several years ago that I was getting an outsized number of complaints around one ski area in particular in the Poconos.00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:47.000Stuart Winchester: And it was Camelback.00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:51.000Stuart Winchester: And Camelback had a long history of being an independent.00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:52.000Stuart Winchester: And…00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.000Stuart Winchester: Really…00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:59.000Stuart Winchester: the way it's been described to me by… by season pass holders, and I've skied…00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:04.000Stuart Winchester: some at Camelback, but I don't have that depth of knowledge of having grown up there.00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:20.000Stuart Winchester: That Camelback for a long time, for decades, set the standard on snowmaking, on grooming, on just general maintenance of lifts in the ski area in the Poconos. And that was why they had chosen to ski there all those years.00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:30.000Stuart Winchester: But things had started to fall apart when a new owner showed up in 2019. It was at the time KSL Capital, who was.00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:43.000Stuart Winchester: was managing it for EPR Properties, which is the entity that bought it, and they own a bunch of ski areas, EPR Properties, including a bunch owned by Vail, including North Star, and a lot of the old Peak Resorts in Ohio and such.00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:50.000Stuart Winchester: And KSL Resorts was a division of KSL Capital.00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:53.000Stuart Winchester: which is a part owner of Altera.00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:58.000Stuart Winchester: But for some reason, Altera, which is very good at running ski resorts.00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:00.000Stuart Winchester: did not…00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:15.000Stuart Winchester: get assigned as the… as the owner of Camelback. And when KSL Resorts purchased Blue Mountain, not in Ontario, the Blue Mountain in Pennsylvania, that's about 45 minutes from Camelback, two years later, in 2021.00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:26.000Stuart Winchester: That ski area also did not fall under Altera's ownership. And it was an odd choice to make, because Altera's really good at running ski areas, and they run…00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:35.000Stuart Winchester: Mammoth, and Deer Valley, and Steamboat, and Solitude, and Palisades Tahoe, and Stratton, and Sugarbush, and they definitely have.00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:41.000Stuart Winchester: the institutional knowledge and internal firepower to be able to run these ski areas in the Poconos.00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:43.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, Blue Mountain…00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:47.000Stuart Winchester: Had the benefit of a long time tenured management team.00:10:47.000 --> 00:11:02.000Stuart Winchester: That kept the place, by all accounts, running pretty well. Camelback, on the other hand, seemed to be falling apart before our eyes, and before the eyes of the loyalist skiers who loved the place so much. And they were really, really concerned, and I started to…00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:08.000Stuart Winchester: Because they had put, uh, a management team in place, it seemed.00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:10.000Stuart Winchester: that…00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:22.000Stuart Winchester: was not familiar with the… with the inner workings of a ski area. Uh, I… I hosted Dave Makarski, the former general manager of Kalenbach, on this podcast.00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:33.000Stuart Winchester: and very nice guy. We had a great conversation. Uh, he's not a skier. And, and, you know, sometimes you can be not a skier and run a great ski resort. Uh, look at Bill Stritzler up at Smuggler's Notch.00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:43.000Stuart Winchester: Bill hasn't skied in years, and he snowboarded for a little bit, but he's not a daily skier. Look at Shawnee.00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:54.000Stuart Winchester: that where the owner… that's one of the most modern, nice ski areas in the Poconos, uh, and the owner has not skied in decades. So, so it's not always necessary, uh, but…00:11:55.000 --> 00:12:10.000Stuart Winchester: It does help and it's certainly a benefit. So everyone I talked to, I was, I was gathering all this stuff for a story and I was gonna write about Camelback and, and it, it really seemed like it was the worst run ski area anywhere that I could find based on the amount of feedback I was getting.00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:25.000Stuart Winchester: I was gathering all this feedback from all these long-time pass holders, and then they hired a new general manager, and so I scrapped the story, but I still wanted to get it, and by all accounts, Jason Bays, who I'll bring on the podcast in a moment.00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:34.000Stuart Winchester: has really done a nice job of turning CamelBak around. So, so let's go to Jason now.00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:16.000Stuart Winchester: My guest today is the Vice President and General Manager of Camelback Ski Area in Pennsylvania.00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:26.000Stuart Winchester: Camelback runs six chairlifts, or maybe seven. I might have had a typo there. Serving 45 trails on an 827-foot vertical drop.00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:41.000Stuart Winchester: Prior to taking the top job at Camelback, he was general manager for Great Wolf Resorts around the United States. He also spent time as chief operating officer and general manager of Mountain Creek Ski Area in New Jersey and director of operations.00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:54.000Stuart Winchester: for Jay Peak, Vermont. His very first jobs as a teenager were as a lifeguard and ski instructor at Camelback. Jason Bay is my guest. Jason, welcome to the Storm. Awesome to have you. How you doing today?00:14:53.000 --> 00:15:00.000Jason Bays: Thank you, Stuart. Great to be here. I've been a listener from day one, so excited to join you.00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:14.000Stuart Winchester: I love that. I'm so hyped to hear that. I know I started with a little Northeast focus. You know, you're the… you probably know this already, but you're the second straight guest I've had on. There was a Mountain Creek alum, Chris Haggerty, on yesterday. Are you acquainted with Chris?00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:18.000Jason Bays: Yeah, Chris and I worked together, um, back in our days at Mountain Creek, great guy.00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:33.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, yeah, I'm, uh, I'm not sure, I'm sure you're aware I'm based in New York City and Mountain Creek is one of my go-tos and, and was my home mountain before I started traveling all over the place for the storm. So, so, you know, Jason, I, I think it's awesome that you grew up at Camelback. Tal.00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:41.000Stuart Winchester: your childhood Camelback. What was the kingdom of Camelback like to you, uh, when you were growing up skiing there?00:15:40.000 --> 00:16:03.000Jason Bays: Yeah, look, I, you know, took, I grew up in Pocono Kid, born and raised 10 minutes from the resort. After school ski program was the first, you know, first sort of foray into life at Camelback and was immediately hooked in the summer as a swimming pool and two water slides. I thought that was the most awesome place in the world too.00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:45.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:55.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:04.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:21.000Jason Bays: And my parents thought it was a great babysitting service, you know, relative to that. So it was just an awesome, awesome place to grow up and, you know, be part of the small but mighty ski community that is Tannersville, Pennsylvania, in this area, in the Poconos.00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:39.000Jason Bays: um, you know, when it came to get a first job, uh, there's no place I was, uh, gonna consider other than Camelback. It's where all my friends were, it's where we all hung out all the time, and, um, you know, really just got introduced to, uh, to the sport, and, um, had some freedom. It was the first time I had some freedom, and it was to be at Camelback, so that's.00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:29.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:56.000Stuart Winchester: So you worked there, and you were part of the machine, so to speak, and I realized you were sort of on the peripheral of the machine, as opposed to in the center of it, as you are now. But, you know, you grew up in the Poconos, and had that experience, and you had this vision of Camelback in your head, right? Then you went off and had a big life, as…00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:57.000Jason Bays: Yes.00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:00.000Stuart Winchester: as people do, and you went and worked at all these places that I just mentioned.00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.000Stuart Winchester: And then you came back to Camelback.00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.000Stuart Winchester: When you, when you arrived.00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:10.000Stuart Winchester: How had the place changed? And I just want to tee this up. I, you know.00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:19.000Stuart Winchester: before you came on, I was talking about how I don't generally write operations stories, right? Because it… there's usually a good reason for why a trail is closed, a lift's not running.00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:26.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, but a few years ago, I started to get an outsized number of complaints about Camelback.00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:38.000Stuart Winchester: And so I started to write a story about it, and then when you came along, I shelved it, because honestly, everyone immediately was like, oh, this is so much better. So, you know, how had…00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:41.000Stuart Winchester: Camelback changed.00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:42.000Stuart Winchester: when you…00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.000Stuart Winchester: Came back to work there.00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:51.000Stuart Winchester: And what were the challenges facing the resort? What did you focus on immediately?00:17:50.000 --> 00:18:08.000Jason Bays: Yeah, I'll just back up to say, you know, just to contextualize, um, from when I was there as a teenager and, um, through college on the ski team, too, I would say that community was a really big word, um, that was used all the time. You, you felt like it was, it was the Camelback community, and there's a really big emphasis on the ski product.00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:28.000Jason Bays: Um, as a ski instructor, like, what we were putting out, how we were doing lessons, how many lessons we could do, and the experience that was surrounding that. And same thing on the water park side. And, you know, I think the, um, you know, some of the observations, um, coming back to Camelback was, um, I think there's a little bit of focus, um, focus direction for, for, like, to focus on the ski product.00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:44.000Jason Bays: and focusing on the water park product, and I sort of look at it as, like, a… as Disney World, right? Whereas we fill out… if we do the ski part well, we do the snow tubing part well, we do the water park well, that puts heads in beds, um, versus trying to put heads in beds.00:18:44.000 --> 00:19:01.000Jason Bays: And then have them do the activities. We're leading with an activity front and centered focus. And that means making the strategic investments in the ski product, in our recreational product, and making that the very best that it can be.00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:23.000Jason Bays: back in 2008 when I was here as a teenager, that was all there was. There was no hotel product, right? So the ski product got outsized attention just naturally because it was a 560-acre resort that identified as a ski area and a water park. And I think some of the context that was missing was that while there's been a great evolution of Camelback as a four-season resort.00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:16.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:40.000Jason Bays: It's really important that, to me, that each of those business units gets the time and attention that they would deserve if they were stand-alone units, particularly because a cog… it's a cog in the wheel, and that wheel is… it's a flywheel. It needs to… it all needs to turn at once, and so we lead with.00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:43.000Jason Bays: the recreational offerings first.00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:48.000Stuart Winchester: You know, you mentioned the community, and I wasn't aware…00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:59.000Stuart Winchester: that there was such a strong community around Camelback, and I'm not surprised, because most ski areas have that group of folks who, you know, they're retirees, and they boot up at 8am, and they take runs together.00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:14.000Stuart Winchester: But they were really passionate, and the running theme, Jason, in the emails and messages that I got from Camelback locals was that they loved Camelback. It wasn't that they hated Camelback, they hated to complain about Camelback.00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:18.000Stuart Winchester: They wanted to love it, but they couldn't. There was there was.00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:34.000Stuart Winchester: a lot of things they cited, uh, not making snowmaking when it's cold, understaffed grooming, uh, missed lift inspections. I don't know if this is true. This is what people were… they were reaching, I think, for answers. Uh, put it all together, and there was… it was definitely…00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:47.000Stuart Winchester: seemed as though the ski product was not the focus. So when you came in, what did you focus on right away and say, okay, this is what we gotta change, you know, we have to cover every trail 100% right away, or whatever it was?00:20:47.000 --> 00:21:09.000Jason Bays: Yeah, I think that's, look, I would start, you hit the nail on the head that there's a very passionate skiing community here at Camelback and in the Poconos and it means a lot to people. This is second, third generations that are learning to ski here, bring their families here and be part of this. And to your point, everyone wants to be prideful of Camelback, right?00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:24.000Jason Bays: This was the, this was family run for a really long time and, you know, very focused on sort of the, you know, season pass holders renewing year after year.00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:40.000Jason Bays: You know, a couple of things. One is I think that how we authentically tell our story isn't done in a way that is, you know, is done in a way that's authentic. A, bringing back the Camelback Mountain Facebook page that communicated ski related content.00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:39.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:21:40.000 --> 00:22:06.000Jason Bays: Right? I think that, you know, there's only so many things you can say about a hotel room and how exciting it is. Like, we really lead now first with authentically telling the story. Our snow report got a lot more detailed, gave granular information as to what was going on. So, you know, did we have a perfect winter last winter? By all means, no, but we communicated that authentically. And where we messed up, we took.00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:23.000Jason Bays: the blame for it, and said, hey, we didn't get this right, and where we were working to improve the experience, we communicated that… communicated that story. So, to me, it started from a communication standpoint, that we were authentic, that we were honest, that we were truthful, and that we were communicating on a medium that.00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:31.000Jason Bays: our guests would see, um, and relate to. So I think a big miss was, I think, admittedly, a big miss was removing the, um, Camelback Mountain.00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:53.000Jason Bays: social media pages, um, and bringing those back were really important so that, um, we could tell the story authentically. I think SKUs really appreciate, um, knowing what's going on, and to your point on, hey, there's sort of this rumor flying or that rumor flying, um, you know, we were able to, uh, sort of hone in and, and tell, tell that story. Secondarily, I think from an infrastructure standpoint.00:22:53.000 --> 00:23:09.000Jason Bays: um, we really needed to make sure that we had, um, the right team in place. And we have an amazingly talented team at Camelback, um, but we did not have key positions filled, um, in certain areas. Um, and so, we bolstered up the snowmaking. Snowmaking team went from.00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:05.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.000Stuart Winchester: Like, what areas?00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:30.000Jason Bays: you know, 3 to 4 to 30, um, this past winter, um, that makes a big difference, right? Our trail rollout was, um, you know, first to open in the East, uh, for Pennsylvania, um, and, uh, um, and, and focus on the core products. Um, same thing with lift operations. We brought in a really experienced lift, uh, maintenance manager.00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:13.000Stuart Winchester: Hey!00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:14.000Stuart Winchester: Wow.00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:21.000Stuart Winchester: Yep.00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:46.000Jason Bays: Um, to our team that really helped, um, support our Lyft, um, uh, operation. Um, decisions on when Lyfts ran and what time they ran, uh, you know, our thought was, let's, um, be more… like, you have to run the Terrain Park Lyft every day.00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:47.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:23:46.000 --> 00:24:06.000Jason Bays: to me, that's a commitment. We make that every day. We say we're running the Glen Lift every day. It services great novice terrain. It services the train park. And so, looking at the operational plan and saying, okay, what are ways that we can give back, you know, and make deposits back to our skiers? And in turn.00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:24.000Jason Bays: that builds momentum, right? People talk, and, like, the ski community is so connected, right? It's like, if you do something, like, people find out about it, because they're really, you know, they hear about it. And so, for us, focus on the core business was, um, you know, from a ski standpoint, was really important, and the infrastructure.00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:13.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:19.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:41.000Jason Bays: to be able to do it. And I would just, lastly, just say I go back to making sure that our team had the resources to do their job. We're supported, we're empowered, collaborative leadership, you know, we sat around the table and said, this is the operating plan, this is what we're going to do for our guests.00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:46.000Jason Bays: And then go out and execute it to the best we can.00:24:45.000 --> 00:25:03.000Stuart Winchester: You know, Jason, I, I, I think you could have run for governor with one of the first things that you did, which was get rid of paid parking. I, I, I don't think that I've ever, uh, heard people happier about anything. Now, now, and let me, let me qualify this, right? I think in, in some instances, paid parking and parking reservations.00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:05.000Stuart Winchester: make sense.00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:18.000Stuart Winchester: you know, super high volume days. Arapahoe Basin, I think, is a model in Colorado where they only charge for certain days and certain times, and they keep backing off which days as they learn when they really need it. Camelback was charging every day.00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:36.000Stuart Winchester: All day, you know, a Monday with, you know, 10 people on the mountain, they were charging for it. And, you know, acknowledging that sometimes it's appropriate, I think Camelback got pretty out of hand with it, and when I had Mr. Markowski on the podcast, great guy, we had a great conversation, but he was not backing off that. He said, nope, paid parking.00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:51.000Stuart Winchester: we're all in. You said no. So talk about that and how you sold. I'd imagine it was a revenue stream, right? And you had to sell management on that, and I don't know if I'm giving you credit for something someone else did, but talk to us about parking and the evolution there.00:25:51.000 --> 00:26:12.000Jason Bays: Yeah, that was a week one decision from the Camelback team when I got here made from our leadership team at Camelback that everyone was in alignment on our senior leadership team here at the property and myself to remove the paid parking. And I think definitely there's actually you have so many nice pictures behind you.00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:30.000Jason Bays: I have a picture of the old paid parking sign behind me there, if you can see it on the corner, and it actually serves to me as a reminder of the guest experience, because someone's put a sticker on that paid parking sign that you probably can't see there, but it says, Ski Camelback, we're not happy until you're not happy.00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:19.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:48.000Jason Bays: Um, and it's a reminder to, to me and our team, um, that we're here to have fun, and we're here for the guest experience, and we're here to live, live and breathe fun Camelback style. This is not a, um, you know, we want guests to look forward to, to being here. And I think, you know, yes, there was.00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:38.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:26:48.000 --> 00:27:05.000Jason Bays: So obviously we ran a financial model. We didn't just, you know, get rid of paid parking and not assume, you know, that there wasn't some revenue to be recaptured elsewhere with a strategy to do it. But I think more importantly, you know, think about it.00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:22.000Jason Bays: a non-busy day, it might even be raining, it's 40 degrees, the last thing you want is someone running around a parking lot telling you, like, hey, I need you to hand over $15, and by the way, then you're gonna schlep your stuff up two different levels of parking, um, you know, that might be even charged higher, and then get to.00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:19.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:38.000Jason Bays: uh, the mountain and go to guest services. You know, I have a 3-year-old. If my wife and I went skiing, that would be an incredible amount of friction, um, just to get to, uh, the front of the mountain. And so I think putting ourselves in the guest lens of saying, is that really what we want the guests to experience?00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:30.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:53.000Jason Bays: Um, it's not, and, and it was a burden to everyone at this, you know, you think I'm talking about, we talked to frontline associates too, like, the first thing that they had to tell people was that they had to pay for parking. You just imagine, sort of, the cascading effect that, that, that, uh, that that had, and we said, look, is there.00:27:53.000 --> 00:28:09.000Jason Bays: Um, is there a better way? Um, can we run shuttles to these lots and pick people up and bring them to the mountain and make them feel, um, you know, like our valued… like our valued guests? What does that arrival experience look like? Um, you know, that's really what we… what we looked at, and then said, okay.00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:25.000Jason Bays: can we… ultimately, will we drive more volume here? Will more people come because of a better guest experience? And I'll say that I would rather grow the sport, grow the industry. Our team would rather grow the sport and grow the industry than figuring out how to.00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:35.000Jason Bays: You know, sort of, you know, run a secondary ancillary business that's not to our core product and what we want our guests to experience here.00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:48.000Stuart Winchester: You know, it's a little counterintuitive, but sometimes, by removing a revenue stream, you get that less-is-more effect. Another example, your season pass, you know, according to my records.00:28:48.000 --> 00:29:04.000Stuart Winchester: Starting in 2020 to ‘21, the season pass was $599 at its early bird price, and it hovered between that and $649 for the next five years. This year, you put it on sale for $399. It's still at that price for unlimited Camelback.00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:20.000Stuart Winchester: That's a great bargain for, uh, for a season pass on the East Coast, and, you know, for the listeners, you are competing with the Epic Pass, which has Jack Frost, Big Boulder, right down the road, a couple exits down I-80, and their Northeast season pass is pretty affordable, and it's a pretty good deal.00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:33.000Stuart Winchester: So… so talk to us about that decision and… and… and how… how that $399 is worth it. You also wrote back, if you want to talk about, uh, the… the triple pack. I thought that was great, and I don't have the price right in front of me, but… but you've really done a lot to… to…00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:39.000Stuart Winchester: create more of a value experience for that loyal Camelback skier, from my point of view.00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:55.000Jason Bays: Yeah, thank you, and that's definitely the goal. Um, you know, I think our thought process here is let's get more people on Snow, um, and have them have a great experience while they're here. Um, I would love to tell you that there's some master business plan behind this.00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:52.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:29:55.000 --> 00:30:10.000Jason Bays: But, you know, truly, at the heart of what we do is, let's figure out how to get more people on snow, get them to a spot where they want to come back and learn and be part of it. And guess what I would just share to that is.00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:24.000Jason Bays: you know, we were charging a day ticket in 2025 of $169, um, at its highest point, right? And I would rather have a lifelong… I would rather have one per… I would much rather, I think from business proposition, we would rather have.00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:17.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:39.000Jason Bays: one person definitely not come and spend $15 to $40 to park and $169 and say, I'm never coming back, versus $399, now they're like, wow, this place is awesome, I'm getting a great value, I bring my family.00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:33.000Stuart Winchester: Damn.00:30:39.000 --> 00:31:01.000Jason Bays: I want to come enjoy food and beverage. And hey, by the way, we also have this great snow tubing park and this great water park. And would you like to stay at our hotel when you come with your season pass and enjoy Aquatopia? And we're debuting The Curse of Camelback this fall, right? Which is the Halloween, if you haven't heard, it's a Halloween 13 scare zones. Take a chair, lift up to it.00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:03.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:24.000Jason Bays: But I say all that to say we've got so many great cross marketing promotional opportunities at Camelback that that really becomes a super compelling business case for us. And I think it's the right thing to do for the sport is grow it, make it more accessible, allow more people to come here and see what we have to offer. I can't tell you how many people I meet, whether it's snow tubing, skiing.00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:41.000Jason Bays: water park, the hotel, whatever they're here for, CBKMA or Adventure Park, they have no idea that the other part exists to, um, the resort. And I'll share that that's been the case even in, like, when I was, uh, at Jay Peak running the water park.00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:34.000Stuart Winchester: Hmm. Okay.00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.000Jason Bays: People would come there, and they'd be like.00:31:43.000 --> 00:32:02.000Jason Bays: what is this mountain that is here? And it's Jay Peak, like, one of the most hardcore ski resorts in the world. And there were people that were coming there and were like, I had no idea there was a ski resort here. So, if it's true at Jay Peak, it certainly is true at Camelback, where.00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:49.000Stuart Winchester: Right.00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:52.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:53.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:00.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:02.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, okay.00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:19.000Jason Bays: we have all these different offerings that people don't know about, maybe necessarily about all of them, so our fundamental business philosophy is make it accessible, make them lifelong, um, skiers and riders, and introduce them to everything that we have to offer here in the Poconos. And I would just argue, when I say Poconos.00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:41.000Jason Bays: Like go, like experience Shawnee and experience Jack Frost Big Boulder and experience, you know, the other great ski areas in this region and Mountain Creek and wherever else and get a flavor for it. I think that's, we could use more skiers in the industry and to grow the sport. So for us, that's sort of the long-term business model that we're using.00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:23.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:58.000Stuart Winchester: So, I just looked at the triple ticket, and it looks like $149, and I think that's no blackouts. $199 includes rentals. That's pretty amazing. So, talk about that product, and then you mentioned the $169 peak day ticket. Have you settled on prices yet for 2020?00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:03.000Stuart Winchester: 6, 27. I should have checked your site in advance, but I didn't. So I don't know if you've.00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:21.000Jason Bays: Yeah, we have not, uh, posted, uh, day ticket prices for this year. Last year, um, we didn't exceed around $110, um, on a day ticket. Uh, so we kept it, I think, pretty reasonable for, for, for a, for a Pocono offering. Um, triple tickets, massive, um, success, uh, for us.00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:12.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, okay.00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:15.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, yeah.00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:37.000Jason Bays: Um, and when we talk about, like, again, getting more people introduced to the sport, you don't necessarily pick up skiing on the first time. Um, you think about that rental product, which we, um, tremendously… whatever we had on the pro forma for that was, uh, blown by by, like.00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:30.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:53.000Jason Bays: 400% on the triple ticket with rentals. And what I really believe in is that, you know, you become a lifelong skier by getting repetition, not by going once a year. It's really hard to sustain as a skier going once a year.00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:52.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:33:53.000 --> 00:34:11.000Jason Bays: and saying, oh yeah, that was our trip. We're really trying to create a guest for life and get them to return visit. That's in many ways more important to us than, again, trying to get, like, the highest yield on that one day that they picked. Like, come back and visit our resort and, um, you know, again, the business side to this is.00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:28.000Jason Bays: we're cross-marketing across all of our other offerings here that we have on this campus to say, come and visit us again. And again, to us, that's more important than, you know, the highest yield that we can get to. So the triple ticket's really successful. And I think one last thing I would share.00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:46.000Jason Bays: a lot of season passes in the market right now, um, the triple ticket's a great opportunity for people to get a couple of days at Camelback, even if they've committed somewhere else, and particularly, you know, our long season, um, there's plenty of time to use it, um, as well, uh, from the, uh, long season that we established from last year.00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:50.000Stuart Winchester: Jason, I think that's a really smart way to look at it as…00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:57.000Stuart Winchester: a… creating a habit rather than pulling as much yield as possible. And a lot of the larger operators.00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:11.000Stuart Winchester: get frustrated with me and the rest of the ski media because they don't understand why we focus on that peak price, right? Because the peak lift ticket this year at Beaver Creek is $392, set to be. Probably almost no one will pay that price, but…00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:28.000Stuart Winchester: What it does is it acts as a, a billboard for the rest of the ski industry and especially so, so Camelback for, for people who don't know when you're driving on I 80 I mean, you see it, it looms right over the highway. It is one of the major interstates in America, especially at night. The thing is lit up.00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:46.000Stuart Winchester: And so, chances are, if people think about skiing, and they think about where to go, they're gonna think about the most obvious one, and that's Camelback, and that's why, for many years, it was that, or Seven Springs was the busiest ski area in Pennsylvania, traditionally. So I think that's a really smart way to look at it, because if people show up that one time, and.00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:59.000Stuart Winchester: cost them, you know, $500 for 2 people, they're just not gonna come back, and they're not gonna try Shawnee, or… or Blue Mountain, or Jack Frost, or Elk Mountain, or Montage. So, um, I wanna talk about… Jason, I wanna talk about Lyft.00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:16.000Stuart Winchester: And… can you see this trail map? This is an old trail map. I mentioned that I know this, so for those watching on StormSkiing.com or YouTube, you can see this. So there's been a ton of changes, and I want to break all these down with you. The first I want to talk about is, over the past couple years.00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:32.000Stuart Winchester: Mark Antony and Cleopatra, these two lifts right here, an old triple and an old double, have been removed. Can you talk about why you took those lifts out of service, and if you plan to replace them with anything, or what you planned, or what the rationale was behind it?00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:49.000Jason Bays: Yeah, I appreciate that. Uh, that does predate my time here, that they had reached the end of their, um, uh, ability to operate. Um, and so they have, um, both been, um, sort of partially disassembled. Um, there is unfortunately not.00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:41.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:47.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:36:49.000 --> 00:37:05.000Jason Bays: I, by the way, two of my favorite lifts when I was a ski instructor, because you could get right up and not wait in long lines on the weekends, so absolutely realizing and recognizing the capacity that they brought, but no opportunity for us to.00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:02.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:23.000Jason Bays: um, reinstate those lifts as presently, um, as presently, uh, uh, sort of, um, situated, um, and, and not, not, not able to, uh, um, not able to, uh, rerun them. It will require a, um, new, uh, chairlift to, um, to ultimately replace.00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:37.000Jason Bays: those two lifts. It saddens me to share that, but that is, in fact, what has happened there, and I've been very open with our season pass holders about that messaging and the why behind it.00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:41.000Stuart Winchester: So, so in fantasy ski resort world, Jason.00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:46.000Stuart Winchester: Would you put a new lift here, and what would you put, if you could?00:37:45.000 --> 00:38:04.000Jason Bays: Yeah, absolutely. Um, same thing. We've, uh, we've made clear, uh, with no time, no official time frame to share, um, but certainly, uh, we've, we've, um, had, uh, preliminary conversations, um, about a fixed grip, um, quad that would, uh, would be able to take the place of both of those lifts, uh, and create that.00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:04.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:10.000Jason Bays: original redundancy that those two lifts brought to the resort when they were in operation.00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:27.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, that would be really nice. So, so, so these are gone and I, I have a, a current trail map now. So, um, and, and it's not completely current. We'll discuss the new trails in a moment, but this is the most current posted on your website. So, uh, we go over, these are the lifts that remain and see, uh, yeah, I, I miscounted in my intro, so sorry about that.00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:42.000Stuart Winchester: So this one is Stevenson, and Stevenson was, uh, it's a high-speed quad, uh, for the listeners, and it… it was a real junker. It was always stop, stop, stop, and, you know, it was… it was really… seemed to be falling apart and have a lot of issues. Now, uh, in 2020…00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:51.000Stuart Winchester: 5, this year, or 2024, I believe, Camelback, uh, McCarthy, the GM at the time, sent out a letter saying it was due for a…00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:53.000Stuart Winchester: Waltz.00:38:53.000 --> 00:39:02.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, let me see what he said… like, a complete modernization of Stevenson. So, so did that happen? And talk to us about Stevenson, and what kind of shape it's in right now.00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:20.000Jason Bays: Yeah, great, um, yes, that was a, uh, look, an amazing, um, project that was completed by, uh, by Dave and team, um, to modernize that lift. Um, it has, essentially, Doppelmayr came in and put in an entire new, uh, minus the, uh, minus the, uh, uh, the terminals and the.00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:09.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:35.000Jason Bays: Um, uh, and the structure itself, um, essentially all new components, all new electrical, um, uh, wiring components to it, a lot of the things that had plagued it. Um, and last year, uh, it operated 138 days.00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:36.000Stuart Winchester: Unbelievable.00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:53.000Jason Bays: Uh, which for Pennsylvania, uh, that's pretty darn good. I think we recognize it's a workhorse, um, it's key to accessing some really, um, fantastic terrain for us, um, and that modernization project with Doppel… in, um, partnership with Doppelmeyer that was done in the summer and fall of 2025.00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:54.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:39:53.000 --> 00:40:08.000Jason Bays: um, was, uh, very, uh, so it's all immediate impact, um, with, uh, Stevenson Reliability this past year, and we expect that to, uh, you know, knock on wood, to, uh, to continue going forward. We essentially, again, have a brand new lift, minus the, uh.00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:10.000Jason Bays: Uh, minus the physical pieces.00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:26.000Stuart Winchester: That's a really smart way to do it because they are tremendously expensive, these new lifts. And for folks who are watching or listening, this Stevenson is really important because you walk out of this giant hotel that's right here, that's not on the trail map with 400 and some rooms, and that is how you get up the mountain. Otherwise you got to.00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:41.000Stuart Winchester: pull your way over, so when that lift is not running or has problems, it's a real big issue. So, the alternative was, over here, Black Bear 6, uh, you replaced an old high-speed quad that was there, and… and I love this Black Bear 6 lift. It is…00:40:41.000 --> 00:41:01.000Stuart Winchester: Freakin' Ferrari, man. I think the price they gave me was something like $12 million that they spent, or maybe it was $10 to put that in. So that's the alternative, right? If you don't just modernize that current lift, you replace it. So, uh, Black Bear is awesome. I love it. It has bubbles. Is it too much? I mean, I know that KSL Now Peregrine had reasons for.00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:16.000Stuart Winchester: for putting it in, but what have you learned from a couple of years of having BlackBerry around, which is, again, probably the nicest lift in the state of Pennsylvania and one of the nicest in the Northeast, but maybe a little heavier than what you need for CamelBak, but I don't know, you tell me.00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:41.000Jason Bays: Yeah, you know, you know what I would share to that, um, you know, we, we brought it back for scenic chairlift rides this summer, and I mean, it's a massive hit. The summer, summer guests love, uh, the bubbles, they put them down when it's sunny, they put them down, um, probably gets more use in the summer as a bubble lift than the winter, uh, but look, it's, it's nice to, uh, have on the days where, you know, there's some liquid precipitation out here. It certainly happens in the Poconos.00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:24.000Stuart Winchester: Hmm.00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:35.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:58.000Jason Bays: um, and, uh, and, and or, um, uh, you know, other, other weather events, it's, it's, it's a nice to have, um, and it certainly, it gets you up in, you know, a little bit over two minutes. Um, it's a smooth ride, it's a great ride. Um, you are not going to get any complaints from me that we have a, um.00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:48.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:52.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:11.000Jason Bays: bubble, D-line, six-pack, um, in place, uh, and able to operate as our main workhorse lift. Um, and, uh, I think the six-pack versus the quad was absolutely the right, uh, call. Um…00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:27.000Jason Bays: from my experience being here before with the Sullivan Express, um, with the four-seater, the six-seater, just the… the added, uh, ability, uh, there is, uh, is… is well worth it. So, uh, we're happy to have that… happy to have that lift. I… I wouldn't, uh… I wouldn't…00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:31.000Jason Bays: We won't be trading it in at this point. Let's put it that way.00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:38.000Stuart Winchester: It is a gorgeous machine, and I have to tell you, I'm that weird person who, if there's a line on one lift.00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:56.000Stuart Winchester: And no line on the lift next to it. Even if it's a slower lift, I'll take the slower lift, because I just would rather not deal with the hassle of the line. So right here, for those who are watching, is the Bailey Double, and this is an old chair lift. It's an old slow double, it runs almost exactly parallel to Black Bear 6, doesn't land quite as high.00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:16.000Stuart Winchester: on the mountain, but functionally, it does about the same thing for you. So I like Bailey, and I was glad to see that not only did you keep it, and it does run, and that was true even under the previous regime, but you got a new gearbox for it, which is a really big deal for a lift like this in several decades. Also, talk about the work you've done on Bailey, and how you hope to use that lift.00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:18.000Stuart Winchester: this year to complement Black Bear.00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:21.000Jason Bays: Yeah, so, um, Bailey Lift…00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:32.000Jason Bays: full disclosure, Bailey Lift, Meadows Lift, Raceway Lift, and our season pass holders are very aware of this. Um, unfortunately, uh, we're not, um…00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:41.000Jason Bays: ready for day one of last year, um, or even close. And so, uh, we had to do a lot of, um…00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:35.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:57.000Jason Bays: normal PM maintenance, um, throughout the, um, end of fall and into winter to have all of them operational. Um, what I share to that is, um, we will run, just level set here really quickly, we will run all the lifts that we have on this trail map.00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:44.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:02.000Jason Bays: Um, and take care of them, maintain them, operate them.00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:18.000Jason Bays: Staff them, everything that you would do to run the extra capacity, we certainly need it. We'd like more capacity, actually. So that being said, Bailey Lift is critical. We got it back online.00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:10.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah. Okay.00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:34.000Jason Bays: End of January, it ran for 2 or 3 weekends, and we had a failed gearbox, um, on it, which is really unfortunate. Um, this off-season, uh, we've replaced the gearbox, we've done a full PM over the course of the summer on it, which is…00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:50.000Jason Bays: the, as you, as everyone knows, the ideal time, uh, to be, um, conducting such work, um, so that it is ready on, uh, day one. Um, it is a critical backup lift. We will run it every weekend.00:44:50.000 --> 00:45:07.000Jason Bays: Um, that we're, you know, in season, I would say in the heart of season, we're gonna run it. Won't be shy to not run it. Um, same thing with the Meadows, same thing with the Glen, same thing with the Raceway, which, um, you know, I know that that was, um, certainly chief among the complaints of.00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:22.000Jason Bays: locals and guests who were visiting from out of town alike was Lyft availability, Lyft reliability. That was something that we focused as fast as we could on last year, but we're setting ourselves up this year to be.00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:39.000Jason Bays: um, very proactive to that, and recognizing the importance of, of each of, uh, uh, you know, each of these. And look, every once in a while, uh, if the, you always want to have, like, Bailey is critical because it's the only other, if there's Black Bear, without Black Bear, it's the only other thing left, right?00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:38.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:55.000Jason Bays: Um, and so, uh, you know, I think the, you know, back in the, when I was here, like, every Lyft ran on the weekends. It was Camelback. Um, it was busy, right? Like, everything was going. That's, that's essentially our, our, our philosophy, um, will continue to be our philosophy going forward.00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:48.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:45:55.000 --> 00:46:11.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, Jason, I'll admit, I didn't come to Camelback last season, so I wasn't able to experience it firsthand. I really wanted to come to your May thing, which I'll talk about, I'll get to in a minute, but I had a shoulder surgery, so I wasn't able to do that. But I wasn't only basing my perceptions of C.00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:19.000Stuart Winchester: on locals' reactions. I had skied there myself in recent years, and the lift line management, I have to say.00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:21.000Stuart Winchester: It was…00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:33.000Stuart Winchester: really frustrating from a skier point of view, when you're waiting for the Stevenson lift, and there's a big line, and every chair is going up with one or two people, and this is not peak COVID or anything else, this is several years later.00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:50.000Stuart Winchester: So, you know, and I had a lot of locals tell me, oh, we walk up Sun Bowl because the lift line is just too chaotic. People come from both sides. No, no, again, that was all before. What's your philosophy of lift line management? How have you tried to tame that? And there's always, it's always going to be a little wild and hard in Pennsylvan.00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:56.000Stuart Winchester: Uh, but they could definitely have been managed better. Is that something that was important to you, that you focused on?00:46:56.000 --> 00:47:15.000Jason Bays: Yeah, we focused on that. We have a new lift operations manager that was hired in November of 2025, who took the bull by the horns. We developed a supervisor team in fairly short order to that as well, to build out a well-rounded team. And then I would just share that our lift attendants.00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:32.000Jason Bays: All hired locally within the community. And I think that we were fully staffed in LiftOps this year, which was a big, very big win. It starts there, right? A, the people, and then B, the right people.00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:23.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:49.000Jason Bays: um, on the, uh, on the bus, um, as a catalyst to drive, uh, lift operations forward. Um, and then absolutely, uh, we focused on, uh, line management, queuing, um, we set new, in some cases, new queues. We had, um, uh, supervisors, in many cases, out.00:47:49.000 --> 00:48:04.000Jason Bays: um, putting up chairs, um, and, um, and managing the lift line. We added, once we got that right, and we felt like we were in a good spot, and we, you know, look, I think, admittedly, a couple technology hiccups here and there, it was not a perfect, uh.00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:17.000Jason Bays: we didn't, like, on opening day, it wasn't perfect, but, uh, we improved, it was a big focus for our team, and I think when we talk about fundamental ski operation, um, if we just were a ski area, we would absolutely be focusing on.00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:08.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:36.000Jason Bays: lift queuing, but we have to do that, like, we have to execute that every day because we are a ski area, um, and that's core to our business, and so that's important. Um, then we added, once we got queuing, uh, uh, correct, we added surprise and delights. Lift, uh, chocolate chip cookies were massively popular.00:48:36.000 --> 00:49:04.000Jason Bays: We handed out over 15,000 chocolate chip cookies this winter at the Stevenson lift line. And so, you know, then it becomes fun, right? Then it's the hospitality side of the business of how do we engage with our guests now that we have full chairs going up for the most part off of the Stevenson and the Black Bear and the Sun Bowl. So we hired extra associates to do that, to surprise and delight, to help our guests.00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:42.000Stuart Winchester: Cool.00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:20.000Jason Bays: The one other thing I would just share is Sunbowl is a great example. How many people get down to the Sunbowl and have never ridden a lift before? And so you need that extra human touch to be able to help. It's not even just putting people in groups of four. It's just helping them with like, here's where you go to load the lift. Here's what you do.00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:14.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:21.000Stuart Winchester: Yep.00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:33.000Jason Bays: Um, I think that that investment in our people to provide that service to our guests is very well worth it, and it's the difference between someone having a bad experience getting on a lift and never coming back.00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:43.000Jason Bays: or having a great experience, feeling well cared for, and wanting to try again. Um, and so that, that, that was, um, you know, I think that's a core, um, focus for us.00:49:43.000 --> 00:50:02.000Stuart Winchester: So, one of the ways that I can tell the resort is being run by a skier, in addition to all the things you just said, and your passion for the minutiae of things like lift lines, which I share, is that you're cutting 3 new trails in a resort that's 60 years old, and I love that. So, talk us through these trails, Jason. I'll do my best to trace them.00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:08.000Stuart Winchester: on the trail map. I don't have the updated trail map, I don't know if you've created it yet, but talk us through these three trails.00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:25.000Jason Bays: Yeah, so we're really excited. Look, this, you know, came after, you know, the so many guests, new guests that visited us at Camelback this past season. We said, you know what, let's do something fun and exciting. And like, you know, you think about how.00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:43.000Jason Bays: Um, yeah, I just, you know, if someone said, anyone puts in a new trail, uh, the skier in me wants to drive to that resort, no matter how big or small, and be like, alright, like, let's do it. Um, and our team feels, uh, you know, much of the same way. So, um, that being said, uh, we had a lot of natural snowfall this year, so…00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:33.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:36.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah.00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:37.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, sure. Yeah.00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:59.000Jason Bays: I was acutely paying attention to where people were skiing when we had natural snowfall, where they wanted to go, and then, you know, maybe following those lines, too, and seeing what the fun was about. So, my point to all of that is, we said, let's create some, and I think for Camelback, too.00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:48.000Stuart Winchester: Mm-hmm.00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:15.000Jason Bays: it's very, um, you know, we wanted to create something that was sort of unique. I didn't want to just put in, like, regular trails that, A, we don't have a lot of space for regular trails, and B, um, we really wanted to create sort of unique experience. So, right underneath Black Bear, um, in between Sullivan and John Bailey there.00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:09.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:30.000Jason Bays: um, there's a, um, there's a chute, um, where the old Alpine Slide used to go. Basculus goes back into Rocket, uh, but underneath there is some really fun rolling terrain. Like, it's, it's because the mountain, the, uh, Alpine Slide.00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:28.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, thank you.00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:54.000Jason Bays: back in the day did had several dips and curves and so we're going to lean into those dips and curves and create something sort of fun that you can get some you know launch some airtime off of if you want or carve a turn over it but it'll have some some really nice terrain variation in a way that most trails at Camelback don't have and they're coming off of an expert trail there so.00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:06.000Jason Bays: um, gives, uh, you know, anyone skiing Asp, Hump, Rocket, um, or Basilisk would be able to reach that trail, um, and, uh, and be able to, uh, just have a little bit more excitement on the way back down.00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:08.000Jason Bays: Um…00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:20.000Jason Bays: Upper Cleopatra there, if you go to the, uh, where the U is, uh, or where Upper is, we're gonna cut a trail through the woods there that's going to end up on the bottom of Big Pocono.00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:21.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:31.000Jason Bays: Um, so it's gonna go down and across. So, um, that… um, and I see where your cursor is. If you go to the… where it says Upper on Upper Cleopatra.00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:29.000Stuart Winchester: So, like, here? Or…00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:32.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, upper…00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:54.000Jason Bays: So, Big Pocono, that's Uncle B. Yeah, right there. Yep, we're going through there. Yeah, so that's gonna be, that's a narrow blue square. So, you know, I think one of the things that's fun for us is we're gonna create a blue square there. That used to be a trail back in the 60s and 70s, fun fact, when Walter Foger was designing Camelback.00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:37.000Stuart Winchester: Upper… oh, this one. Okay, so you're cutting through here?00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:39.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, cool. Okay.00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:51.000Stuart Winchester: Oh, cool.00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:09.000Jason Bays: Um, that being said, um, the… actually, it got filled in with pine trees, so it's gonna be really cool, because there's pine trees on both sides. Um, we made it narrow, so we kept the pine trees, um, and so that's gonna be a really fun, um, sort of narrow… I think about, like, the, um.00:52:58.000 --> 00:52:59.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:03.000Stuart Winchester: That's cool. It's pretty.00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:26.000Jason Bays: the ending of Jay Peak with some of the blues at the very bottom there by Interstate. We're trying to sort of have that, obviously in a much smaller zone, have that same effect, though, where you're feeling like you're really in the trees, and you've got some nice twists and turns to it. It's not terribly steep.00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:13.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, okay.00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:44.000Jason Bays: Um, two things on that trail. One is, it takes traffic off of Honeymoon Lane, which is a main boulevard, it pushes it onto the Sphinx, which has much more trail capacity, which is great, um, comfortable carrying capacity, and secondarily, um, on weekends, we're gonna have a hot chocolate, um, hut that people can ski up to.00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:32.000Stuart Winchester: Mmhm.00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:52.000Jason Bays: Um, and get shots of hot chocolate, um, as well, so we're excited to, um, uh, to offer that to our guests. We think that'll be really fun.00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:47.000Stuart Winchester: That's cool.00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:53.000Stuart Winchester: That was awesome.00:53:53.000 --> 00:54:17.000Jason Bays: And then the Stevenson, it's going to drop on the cliffhanger side and drop down that lift line and go right down into the Faroe there and follow that lift line. Vermont skiing in a very short array but very much Vermont skiing, that's an intimidating drop. Stevenson for those that may not be familiar has a extremely.00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:55.000Stuart Winchester: And it.00:53:58.000 --> 00:53:59.000Stuart Winchester: Okay.00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:09.000Stuart Winchester: Yeah, I think so.00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:34.000Jason Bays: extremely tight, um, and high, uh, crest of the lift, because the mountain crests, um, really steeply. Well, we're gonna ski that, um, and, uh, and make snow on it, and, uh, and, and, uh, and allow our guests to, uh, um, and allow skiers to, uh, to, to, to test, um, you know, a more narrow.00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:44.000Jason Bays: um, uh, trail up there that has a really great expansive view ov

A boat's wake looks harmless right up until you watch it happen over and over. Every wake a boat throws off chips away at a shoreline that took centuries to build, and it happens on calm days, sunny days, days with no storm anywhere near. A NOAA study at Snow's Cut, North Carolina found that roughly half of all boat wake heights on that stretch of the Atlantic Intracoastal Waterway exceeded the largest wind driven waves measured there, and boats moving at the slow, considerate seeming "plowing" speed threw the tallest wakes of all. Habitat pushes back, and now that push has a number attached to it. A study by Doughty and colleagues found mangroves and marsh can reduce wave height by up to 90 percent, and marsh grass paired with an oyster reef cuts wave energy from boat wakes specifically by 67 percent compared to bare mud. Once a benefit like that is measurable, it becomes fundable: global blue carbon storage in mangroves, marsh, and seagrass is valued at nearly $191 billion a year, and a single restored 100 acre wetland saves local water systems about $17,000 a year, the same figure from earlier this week's Nature's Kidneys episode. Mexico's Riviera Maya coastline puts that funding model into practice. Its coral reef shields around $10 billion in annual tourism revenue, but that value sat informal for years, until a 2018 partnership between The Nature Conservancy, the Quintana Roo state government, local hotels, and the insurer Swiss Re turned it into a parametric insurance policy on the reef itself. When Hurricane Delta hit in 2020, the policy paid out $850,000 within days, funding volunteer brigades that stabilized over 2,150 coral colonies and reattached more than 13,500 coral fragments within three months. This episode closes out this week's coastal habitats series and lands on the one call to your local marina or town council that can actually move the needle. Takeaways: Boat wake erosion is mechanical, not climate driven: NOAA's Snow's Cut study found roughly half of boat wake heights exceed the largest wind driven waves, and slow "plowing" speed produces the tallest wakes of all. Healthy habitat is a measured defense: mangroves and marsh can reduce wave height by up to 90 percent, and marsh paired with an oyster reef cuts boat wake wave energy by 67 percent (Doughty et al., PeerJ). Once a coastal benefit is measurable, it becomes fundable: global blue carbon storage is valued at nearly $191 billion a year, and a single restored 100 acre wetland saves about $17,000 a year in water treatment costs. Mexico's Riviera Maya reef shields around $10 billion in annual tourism revenue, and a 2018 insurance partnership turned that value into a parametric policy that pays out automatically after a storm, no lengthy damage assessment required. When Hurricane Delta hit in 2020, that policy paid out $850,000 within days, funding the stabilization of over 2,150 coral colonies and the reattachment of more than 13,500 coral fragments within three months. The model is now expanding to Belize, Guatemala, and Honduras, with mangroves named as the next expansion. Support Independent Podcasts: https://www.speakupforblue.com/patreon Need help with your ocean non-profit, company, or project? Get the help you need with Pisces Oceans Inc.: https://www.piscesoceans.ca Connect with Speak Up For Blue Website: https://bit.ly/3fOF3Wf Instagram: https://bit.ly/3rIaJSG TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@speakupforblue Twitter: https://bit.ly/3rHZxpc YouTube: www.speakupforblue.com/youtube  

The guys sit down with Kevin Speilman of Yeti Software to discuss the complete rebuild of the software! Yeti is never happy with the status quo, and is constantly striving to improve for its customers. This exciting new foundation rebuild will allow Yeti to add so many new features to help snow professionals be more efficient, and also integrate AI in the near future! Use Promo Code SJ26 for Two Months Free for any paid plan!!

Guest: Dr. Samantha MontanoWhen a disaster strikes, most of us focus on what we can see: the storm, the wildfire, the flood, or the earthquake. But what if the real story begins long before the event—and continues long after the headlines fade? Today on Weather Geeks, we're joined by Dr. Samantha Montano, a disaster researcher, author, and one of the leading voices helping the public better understand how disasters actually work. Through her work in "Disasterology," she examines the systems, decisions, and vulnerabilities that can turn natural hazards into human disasters—and what we can do to build more resilient communities. We'll talk about some of the biggest misconceptions surrounding disasters, why recovery is often the most overlooked phase of the disaster cycle, and how individuals, communities, and leaders can better prepare for the challenges that come before, during, and after a crisis.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Disasterology and Dr. Montano01:05 How Disasterology Became a Field02:07 The Human Side of Disasters03:36 Disaster Research and Human Responsibility05:08 The Role of Community and Leadership07:10 Impact of Physical and Social Vulnerability09:16 Training and Roles of Emergency Managers11:50 Public Misconceptions and Personal Responsibility13:51 Communication Strategies During Disasters14:29 Break 114:30 Recovery Challenges and Success Factors18:49 Community Leadership in Recovery22:24 Social Media and Disaster Communication26:19 The Future of Disaster Communication28:51 Break 228:51 Increasing Costs of Disasters and Communication36:16 Building Resilient Communities39:01 The Future of Disaster Management41:03 Optimism and the Next Generation of Emergency ManagersResourcesBook - Disasterology: Dispatches from the Front Lines of the Climate CrisisDr. Samantha Montano - Website - https://disaster-ology.comFEMA - Federal Emergency Management Agency - https://www.fema.govGuest linksInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/samlmontano/Bluesky - https://bsky.app/profile/samlmontano.bsky.socialSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Any team can fill a whiteboard with ideas in an hour. What most teams skip is the analytical thinking that tells them if they're solving the right problem. An idea pointed at the wrong problem is wasted no matter how clever the idea is, and you usually don't discover this mistake for years. By the end of this episode, you'll have four steps you can run on a real problem this week, the three thinking traps that can derail you, and a practice drill to sharpen your analytical thinking. To help explain how and the power behind this skill, I will use a real-world example. In the summer of 1854, cholera hit one small corner of London's Soho area, and by the time it burned out, 616 people were dead, most of them within a few streets of each other. The experts had an explanation ready. Cholera came from bad air, a poisonous vapor rising off filth and rot, called miasma, and that was the official position of the men in charge of public health. A doctor named John Snow didn't argue with them. He walked to the General Register Office, asked for the list of the dead, took that list out into the streets, and knocked on doors until he found that nearly all of them had lived a short walk from one water pump on Broad Street. We'll follow what he did as he applied each of the four steps I'm about to share. Let's get into it. What Is Analytical Thinking? Analytical thinking gets confused with critical thinking all the time, and the difference decides which skill you reach for. Critical thinking judges a claim: someone tells you something, and you ask whether it's true, who is saying it, and what they left out. I covered that in the critical thinking episode, and it's worth watching if you haven't already seen it. Analytical thinking starts when there is no claim on the table yet, just a mess. Sales are down twelve percent. Your best people keep leaving. A project that looked healthy in March is three months late in September. Nobody has handed you an argument to evaluate, so there's nothing yet to be critical of. You have to work out what's going on. Snow's story shows the gap. Critical thinking, applied carefully in 1854, points you straight at the Board of Health, because they were the credible source making a claim, and the credible source was wrong. In the critical thinking episode, we briefly touched on breaking a problem into pieces. In today's episode, we focus on breaking the problem into pieces and then analyzing each one. Why Analytical Thinking Is Eroding Most people remember Snow for the famous cholera map, the one with little black bars stacked along the streets of Soho, piling up around the pump. That map didn't exist in September 1854. A mapmaker drew it for a book Snow published the following year. The real work involved a list of names and a lot of walking. Today, most of us only ever see the finished map. We rarely do the work that produces it. Think about the last dashboard you looked at. The numbers arrived already cut into pieces, by region, by quarter, by product line, and somebody chose those cuts, months ago, for a question they had then. When the slicing arrives pre-made, you've inherited someone else's answer and never noticed. AI summaries go one step further. You ask what's going on, and you get back a paragraph shaped exactly like a conclusion: confident, organized, finished. It never asks you to decide where to look, and that decision is the skill. Like any skill, it only improves when you make it yourself. Keep the dashboard. But you need to be able to do the same work yourself, by hand, when the dashboard doesn't answer your question. The Four Steps Snow's work, and the work of anyone good at analytical thinking, has four steps: Break the problem into pieces Find the pattern inside them Test whether your read is right Look out for the thinking traps Step 1: Break the Problem Into Pieces A problem that feels overwhelming is a problem you haven't cut into pieces yet. The skill is deciding how to split it. The steps to break a problem into pieces: Write the problem down as a fact. "Renewals dropped from eighty percent to sixty-eight percent this year." Not "customers hate the new pricing." That one assumes the answer before you've done the work. Split the problem into pieces that add up to the whole. New customers and existing ones. This region and that one. Online and in-store. If the pieces overlap or leave something out, you'll double-count or miss what matters. Follow the piece that moved, and keep splitting it. If the drop sits almost entirely in one region, split that region again. If it's spread evenly across everything, that's a clue too, and it points you toward something that touches everything. Stop when a piece is small enough to act on or to ask a person about, because past that point more analysis just delays the decision. Get the rows behind the chart. Snow didn't work from a death rate for the district. He worked from eighty-nine names and eighty-nine addresses, and the addresses were where the answer was. How Snow split the problem made all the difference. Everyone else was sorting the neighborhood by what it smelled like. Snow sorted it by where people got their water. Done honestly, this is twenty minutes and one sheet of paper. At the end, you want a short list of pieces that add up, with the one that moved circled. Step 2: Find the Pattern Step 1 tells you where the damage sits. This step is about what those pieces have in common and finding the exceptions. Snow focused on the exceptions, starting with the ones that seemed to contradict him. There were only ten deaths in houses that sat closer to a different pump, so he visited those families. Five of them told him they always sent for water from Broad Street because they liked the taste better, and three more of the dead were children who went to school near the pump. Then he looked at the places that should have been hit and weren't. A workhouse on Poland Street, nearly surrounded by houses where people had died, held more than five hundred people and lost five, but it had its own well. A brewery sat on Broad Street itself, seventy men working a few doors from the pump, and none of them died. The owner told Snow his men got a daily allowance of beer and never drank the water. The cluster told Snow where to look, and the exceptions are what convinced him he was right. The steps to find the pattern: Hunt the exceptions in both directions. Who has the problem and shouldn't? Who should have it and doesn't? One exception, like the brewery, will usually teach you more than ten more examples that fit. Ask what the cluster and the exceptions share that nothing else does. This is the moment the analysis reveals something, so slow down here. Write out what's true of the cases that have the problem: where they are, who touched them, what they use, when it started. Then cross off anything that's also true of the cases that don't have it. Snow could cross off the street, the smell, the crowding, and the poverty, because the workhouse and the brewery sat in all of it and stayed healthy. What survived was the water, and whatever survives your crossing-off is the candidate. Keep asking why until you reach something you can change. Taiichi Ohno, the engineer behind the Toyota Production System, taught this with a machine that stopped. The fuse had blown, but it blew because a worn shaft had starved the bearing of oil, and the shaft wore out because nobody had fitted a strainer to keep scrap from getting into the machine and damaging the shaft. Stop at the first answer, and you replace the fuse, and the machine stops again next month. Two questions do most of the work in this step: What changed right before the numbers did? Who is closest to the problem and hasn't been asked? Snow's best evidence came from a brewery owner and a few families, and nobody had thought to ask any of them. What you want at the end of this step is one sentence naming the likely cause, written so that somebody could go and prove it wrong. "People who drank from the Broad Street pump got cholera" can be checked. "Something in the environment is making people sick" can't be checked, which is part of why the miasma theory lasted so long. Step 3: Test Your Explanation A pattern is your best read, but it's still a bet. Testing is how you find out whether the bet is any good before you spend money, or reputation, or lives on it. Snow's strongest evidence wasn't in Soho at all. A widow out in Hampstead, miles away, died of cholera on September 2nd. There was no cholera in Hampstead, and she hadn't been near Broad Street in months. But she'd lived there once, and she liked that pump's water so much she had a bottle of it brought out to her by cart. Her niece visited, drank the same water, went home to Islington, and died the next day. There was no cholera in Islington either. That's powerful evidence: a case far from the outbreak that only the pump could explain. On the evening of September 7th, Snow took his case to the parish authorities, and the next day the handle came off the pump. Here's the part people usually leave out. Snow wrote afterward that the deaths had already started to fall before the handle came off, so he couldn't claim the pump was still the source, and he refused to take credit the evidence didn't support. A local clergyman, Henry Whitehead, closed the case. Whitehead set out to prove Snow wrong, went house to house on his own, and ended up tracing the first case: a five-month-old baby at 40 Broad Street, whose mother had rinsed the soiled cloths into a cesspool a few feet from the well. Steps to test your explanation: Write down what else has to be true if you're right, then go looking for the case that would embarrass you. If the pump is the cause, people who drank from it far from Soho should get sick, and people living beside it who drank elsewhere should stay healthy. The widow in Hampstead was exactly that case. Define the criteria that would prove you wrong before you go looking. Why? Because if you decide afterward, you'll find a way to rationalize what you already believed. Hand your work to someone who wants you to be wrong. Whitehead set out to disprove Snow and ended up strengthening his case. Run the cheapest test you can. Pulling a pump handle costs nothing and can be undone tomorrow. Most business problems have a small, cheap test: a price change in one region, one week with a different process, one customer call. By the end of this step, you want a test you can run in a week and a result that would make you drop the idea. Step 4: Avoid the Analytical Traps Three failures show up again and again, and all three look like good analysis from the outside. The steps to stay out of the traps: Set the decision date before you start. The first trap is paralysis. You keep splitting and keep asking for more data, because deciding feels riskier than analyzing. Snow didn't wait for proof. He had a strong case and a cheap, reversible action, so he acted. Match the proof you need to the cost of being wrong: pulling a pump handle needs a strong case, and a decision you can't walk back needs a much stronger one. Round the number back to what you actually know. The second trap is false precision. A forecast of 23.4 percent growth sounds more rigorous than "somewhere between fifteen and thirty." If the inputs were guesses, the precision is invented, and everyone who sees it trusts the number more than they should. Carry the uncertainty through to the answer. Go find the numbers that disagree with you. The third trap is confirmation bias dressed up as data, and it's the most dangerous because it looks like evidence. You already believe the answer, so you find the slice of the numbers that agrees. The miasma camp had real observations on its side. Cholera did hit the poorest, most crowded, worst-smelling streets hardest. That was true, and it pointed at the wrong thing. I did a full episode on confirmation bias, and the short version is this: when the evidence against you is hard to find, that's when you need to look hardest. Three things to have in hand before you act: The date you'll decide An honest range instead of a false decimal The strongest evidence you could find against your own answer Practice Exercise: The Root-Cause Drill In the critical thinking episode, the exercise was a debate. This one is a drill, and you'll need a partner, because you'll see the structure of someone else's problem more clearly than your own. Each of you brings one real problem with a number attached. Something current, where you don't know the answer. For example: turnover on your team, or a metric that went the wrong way. Swap problems and break each one into pieces on a single sheet of paper, with the pieces adding back up to the whole. Give it fifteen minutes. Circle where the problem concentrates, then find one exception. If you can't find one, you haven't split finely enough. Ask why until you hit something changeable. Write the pattern as one sentence that could turn out to be wrong. Hand it back. The owner designs one test they can run within a week that could prove the pattern false. Meet again after the test. Compare what you expected with what happened. The gap between the two is where you learn the most. The first time, it'll feel slow. By the third, you'll catch yourself taking problems apart in meetings before anyone has finished describing them. The Rewards After the outbreak passed, the authorities put the handle back on the Broad Street pump, and the official inquiry blamed the epidemic on bad air. Snow's analysis was right; it was on paper, and the people in charge rejected it anyway. It took years for everyone else to catch up with what he had worked out from a list of names and a few weeks of knocking on doors. This is the reality of what analytical thinking will and won't do for you. It won't make people believe you, and on its own it won't win the room. What it does is get you to the right answer while everyone else is still debating which expert to believe, and give you the evidence to back it up. It gives you the early insight that others are missing. The next time a number goes the wrong way, don't start by guessing at the cause. Get the details, break the problem into pieces, and work from there.  

A memorial ride and Celebration of Life are planned for Saturday, Sept. 19th.  More information can be found here: https://kimtopp.com/honoring-kerry-snow-alley/ Kerry's fight has left significant medical expenses behind. Funds are being raised to help cover those expenses and care for the person who spent these last years caring so deeply for her. Learn more here: https://www.gofundme.com/f/honor-kerry-snows-memory It is with a heavy heart that I share the passing of my dear friend Kerry Snow-Alley. She is the person whom I credit most with not only introducing me to bikepacking, but also inspiring me to enter my first race in 2018. When I did my first century, she was there. When I did my second century, she was there. The second time I ever went bikepacking was with her. And the first time I raced, she was in the field. Behind the scenes, she was helping me in tangible ways as I navigated new ways to ride my bike and explore the world. Less tangible were the ways she inspired me on a personal level. After my first divorce, she and her husband, Christopher, took in my 6 year old daughter and me while we got back on our feet. During that time, I got to see where the results were really being made: at home, in quiet, and without fanfare. She was dedicated to this life and to putting her best foot forward in everything she did, always with a cheery disposition. On the bike, she was a beast. In 2017, she entered the GranGravel 500 as her first bikepacking race and came in 2nd place in the women's category with a time of 2d 6h 18m. Learning a lot from that experience, she came back the next year and finished 2nd overall, only two hours behind the infamous Indiana Schulz. She finished in 1d 19h 45m — almost 11 hours faster than her 2017 time. Side note: That was also the year I entered the GranGravel 500 — inspired by Kerry. I was a tad bit slower and literally limped into the finish with a time of 3d 10h 8m. Fast forward many years, and the spark and inspiration she instilled in me had turned into a full-blown obsession. Later that year, I'd go on to create Bikes or Death, and a couple of years later, the Texas Showdown Series. In 2024, she signed up for the East Texas Showdown 400 and crossed the finish line 2nd in the women's category and 10th overall, with a time of 1d 13h 46m. Two days after the race, she learned she had Stage 2 breast cancer. For some people, a diagnosis like that might resign them to the couch, but not Kerry. She never let cancer or treatment stop her from living a full life. She continued to work, do CrossFit, and ride her damn bike. In 2025, she again signed up for the ETS 400, this time while undergoing chemo — what she playfully referred to as "Chemo Doping." She wasn't just there to ride. She was there to compete. Two hundred and fifty miles into the race, sitting on the steps of a convenience store in Trinity, she recorded a video saying, "This is the hardest thing I've ever done on a bike, but I came to ride 400 miles and that's what I'm going to do." She and her good friend and training partner, Maegan Fitzgerald, rode straight through two nights, stopping only once for a brief five-minute power nap. When they reached the Bullet Grill, before setting out on the final 68 mile Death Star Loop, Kerry looked like she was in the midst of the hardest ride she'd ever done. I stayed back, gave her space to recuperate, and quietly rooted for her to continue. She did. Kerry and Maegan broke the Death Star into three manageable 23-mile sections. They crossed the finish line together around 3 a.m. Sunday morning, sharing 2nd place in the women's category and finishing 10th overall. After that performance, I took the opportunity to meet Kerry at one of our local mountain bike trails and record a podcast. The original episode, Ep. 200, aired in May of 2025. Over the past couple of days, I re-listened to that conversation and edited it in a way that allows Kerry to shine through even more. I did not edit Kerry. I didn't take out any of her umms or pauses. I just let her shine through. I did take out some of my commentary so that Kerry's story, her spirit, and her voice could be more present. I'm so grateful to have this conversation with her, and I hope it will also be a comfort to those who knew her. If you didn't know Kerry, I hope you'll find inspiration in her story, her accomplishments, and her never-ending optimism — even while fighting for her life. Kerry did not want to be defined by cancer. She was not defined by cancer. It was a part of her journey, but it was not the whole story. So let's remember Kerry for who she was and for the way she inspired us, pushed us, and showed us the way forward. Please join me on today's episode as we take a moment to remember and honor my dear friend, Kerry Snow-Alley. Ride in peace, Kerry. With love, Patrick  

As promised, the guys bring in blue collar world marketing wiz Luke Eggebraaten of Phaser Marketing to answer listener questions on marketing and promotion for their snow companies!

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