Podcasts about cfps

[This episode from February 2024 was never published and recently discovered]In today's episode, Andrew kicks things off with a rant about tackling developer experience tasks at Podia, wrestling with GitHub actions, and Heroku deployment woes. Then the conversation takes a turn to the importance of debugging, the power of bash scripting, and the challenges of naming in programming, with Chris mentioning DHH's insights from a live stream. They discuss Chris's travel plans for RubyConf in Australia, other conferences coming up, and reminisce about their childhood love for trains and Thomas the Tank Engine.  The episode wraps up with Chris and Andrew sharing advice and tips on writing conference proposals (CFPs) and the value of diverse speaking styles and personalities for engaging an audience. Tune in now to hear more!LinksONCE/Campfiredebug.rbGitHub CopilotRubyConf Australia-April 11-12, 2024RailsConf 2024-May 7-9, 2024-Detroit, MISarah Mei-“What Your Conference Proposal is Missing”Ruby for All Podcast-Episode 50: The Art of Conference Speaking with Kevin Murphy[SFM] We like to party (YouTube)Ultimate Skyrim (YouTube)RailsConf 2023-Teaching Capybara Testing- An Illustrated Adventure by Brandon Weaver (YouTube)Chris Oliver X/TwitterAndrew Mason X/TwitterJason Charnes X/Twitter

The new AIEWF website is live! CFPs close in 2 days and we will run our first New Engineer Orientation this weekend, get your tickets booked ASAP as they -will- sell out. Take the AI Engineering Survey and get >$2k in credits and free AIE WF tickets!One of the central tensions in the agents industry is that even while there are major decacorn agent labs like Sierra, Decagon, Notion and Cursor being built up, it is also true that it has never been easier to DIY agents, with a plethora of agent frameworks like LangGraph and Pydantic and Flue, and managed agents from Anthropic and Gemini and Amazon. There has been a wave of companies building their own background agents from Shopify to Stripe to Paradigm to Razorpay, and even Cognition's friends Ramp have built their own coding agent with other friend Modal.You'd think Cognition might feel a bit threatened, but they're not - even after all this, they were way oversubscribed for the $1B Series D they just announced:Walden Yan, coiner of context engineering and Chief Product Officer/Cofounder of Cognition, invited OpenInspect's Cole Murray to talk about why the Devin is in the Details.Full conversation live on the pod today: In retrospect, async agents were the most AGI pilled bet you could make in 2024 - the models weren't good enough yet to vibecode, and people didn't trust AI enough to let it rip, nobody (including early Cognition) was sure about the form factors. Now it is obvious:* The first wave of AI coding tools made the developer faster but remain heavily in the loop. Copilor and Cursor's tab autocomplete are prime examples However, the workflow was still heavily centered around and bottlenecked by the developer's local workflow: a developer in an IDE, watching the model, accepting or rejecting changes, and pushing code one interaction at a time.* The second wave was local agents: Claude Code, Windsurf, Cursor's agents pane: first one and increasingly many terminals all running concurrently.* The current Age of Async Agents points to a different future focused more on agent orchestration which drives end-to-end development.According to previous guest Steve Yegge, there are finer-grained 8 levels to agent adoption, but we have collapsed it into three.As Cursor's Michael Truell put it in The third era of AI software development:Cursor is no longer primarily about writing code. It is about helping developers build the factory that creates their software. This factory is made up of fleets of agents that they interact with as teammates: providing initial direction, equipping them with the tools to work independently, and reviewing their work.The agent should not sit solely inside the developer's flow. It should be setup to work in the background so that you can give it a task, a repo, a machine, a shell, a browser, tests, memory, and review loops to go do the work somewhere else.In less than a year, the sentiment has shifted from avoiding multi-agent systems:to suggesting approaches that actually work:From coining “context engineering” to building the infrastructure behind Devin's 7x PR growth and jump from 16% to 80% of commits across Cognition repos, Walden Yan has had a front-row seat to the background-agent shift. In this episode, Cognition co-founder and CPO Walden Yan joins swyx alongside Cole Murray, creator of OpenInspect, to unpack why everyone is building their own Devin, what changed after the December 2025 model inflection, and why “spec to pull request” is now becoming a real production workflow.We go deep on the architecture of background agents: harness-in-the-box vs out-of-the-box, why Devin separates the “brain” from the machine, why repo setup is still one of the hardest problems, why Docker is not always enough, and how full VMs, snapshots, scoped secrets, GitHub bots, Slack integrations, and video-based testing all fit together. Walden and Cole also dig into memory, MCP limitations, multi-agent orchestration, AI code review, SRE auto-triage, PMs shipping code from Slack, Windsurf 2.0, hybrid frontier/sub-frontier systems, and the real failure mode of uncontrolled vibe coding: your codebase regressing to your worst engineer.And as agents eat software… and software eats the world… you can draw the conclusion on what is next:We discuss:* Why the engineering world is waking up to background agents and cloud agents* The December 2025 model inflection that made spec-to-PR workflows practical* Devin's 7x merged PR growth and rise from 16% to 80% of commits* Why Cole built OpenInspect as an open-source background-agent system* The economics of $20/seat agent products and why monetization is tricky* What Cognition actually sells beyond Devin: infra, onboarding, integrations, and adoption* Harness in the box vs out of the box, and why architecture matters* Why Devin separates the brain from the machine for security and permissions* Repo setup, scoped secrets, Docker Compose, and agent-ready dev environments* Why full VMs matter when agents need to run real applications and test them* Android, macOS, Windows, nested virtualization, and machine-specific agent work* Why testing is much harder than “computer use”* Screenshots, video verification, and the “I know it works” merge moment* GitHub UX, Devin Review, AI reviewers, and agents responding to PR comments* Why MCP alone is not enough for first-class Slack and enterprise integrations* Memory, Knowledge, skills, Claude.md, and why retrieval is still unsolved* Devin's auto-generated memories and the challenge of memory pruning* Always-on agents as permanent PMs for issues, tickets, and product areas* Sub-agents, meta-Devin management, and what multi-agent systems actually add* Why pure auto-merge vibe coding breaks down after about two weeks* AI code smells, lint rules, reward hacking, and Semgrep for agent-written code* GitAI, inline context, and preserving the “why” behind code changes* Local testing, mock servers, older codebases, and preparing companies for agents* Windsurf 2.0 and the handoff between local foreground agents and cloud background agents* SRE auto-triage, support workflows, and agents as first responders* PMs, marketing, and non-engineers creating pull requests from Slack* AI agent budgets, $1k-$5k per engineer spend, and hybrid frontier/sub-frontier systems* The rise of autonomous coding factories and who Cognition is hiringWalden Yan* X: https://x.com/walden_yan* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/waldenyan/Cole Murray* X: https://x.com/_colemurray* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colemurray/* OpenInspect / Background Agents: https://github.com/ColeMurray/background-agentsTimestamps00:00:00 Introduction00:00:43 Why Everyone Is Building Their Own Devin00:01:57 Devin's 2025 Ramp: 7x PR Growth and 80% of Commits00:03:49 OpenInspect and the Rise of Open-Source Background Agents00:07:59 What Cognition Actually Sells Beyond Devin00:09:56 Background Agent Architecture: Harness In vs Out of the Box00:12:08 Separating the Brain from the Machine00:14:07 Repo Setup, Secrets, Docker, and Full VMs00:19:13 Why Testing Is Harder Than Computer Use00:22:40 Video Verification and the “I Know It Works” Merge Moment00:23:19 GitHub UX, Devin Review, and AI Code Review00:25:42 MCP, Slack, and Enterprise Agent Integrations00:28:59 Memory, Knowledge, and Always-On Agents00:36:16 Sub-Agents, Multi-Agent Orchestration, and Meta-Devin00:43:55 Vibe Coding, Auto-Merge, and Codebase Decay00:48:38 Agent Infra, VPCs, Cloud Providers, and Fast VM Restore00:52:25 AI Code Smells, Reward Hacking, and Code Review Systems00:56:10 Making Codebases Agent-Ready00:58:30 Windsurf 2.0 and the Local-to-Cloud Agent Handoff01:01:15 SRE Auto-Triage, PMs Shipping Code, and Agent Use Cases01:04:32 Agent Budgets, Hybrid Models, and Autonomous Coding Factories01:06:51 Hiring at Cognition and OpenInspect Consulting01:07:45 OutroTranscriptIntroduction: Walden Yan, Cole Murray, and Context EngineeringSwyx [00:00:00]: All right, we're in the studio with Walden Yan, co-founder of Cognition, CPO.Walden [00:00:08]: Happy to be here.Swyx [00:00:09]: Which is a cool title. And coiner of context engineering.Walden [00:00:15]: Although I think there are many people who'd used the terms in various ways beforehand, but I did find that people, both internally and externally, enjoyed the upgrade from prompt engineering or model wrapping into maybe a more thoughtful way to build agents.Swyx [00:00:33]: For those who haven't caught up on that, I have on screen the Don't Build Multi-Agents post, which you should go read on and we might refer to, and Cole Murray, who created OpenInspect.Cole [00:00:43]: Great to be here.Swyx [00:00:43]: So let's talk about it. Everyone is building their own Devins. What's going on?The December Shift: From Handholding Models to Autonomous PRsCole [00:00:51]: So I think the engineering world is waking up to this idea of background agents, cloud agents, whatever you'd like to call it. And I think we saw a shift around the December timeframe of 2025, where the models Opus 4.5 and GPT 5.2, they reached a capability where we moved away from handholding the model and being able to actually more or less autonomously drive the model. And what I mean by that is that we could pretty much go from a specification to a completed pull request, assuming the spec was good enough, with very little friction. And that paradigm alone, I think, changed a lot of how we interact with agents, and opened this world where background agents became more practical.Swyx [00:01:41]: I think for Cole, everyone experienced this in December, but I feel like there was just this increasing ramp, right? There was this moment which was, I think, Sonnet 3.7, where, You guys rewrote Devin in one night or something. So describe 2025 or how it felt from your side.Walden [00:02:01]: In retrospect, we always thought it was ramping up, but then even now, over the last three, four months from today, it's been ramping up even faster. So it's almost funny to be talking about how, big of a leap Sonnet 3.7 was, and honestly, a lot of it was stripping out parts of Devin that were no longer needed with that jump in of intelligence. But I also just think that a lot of the recent leaps, especially, you look at, models like Opus and the latest GPT models, they are reaching levels of autonomy where people are actually finding that they actually can just be hands-off. And people who were once debating, “Oh, do I need to be in the weeds with my model in the IDE? Can I just completely move it off into the cloud?” That's a more serious conversation, and we've seen that in all of our growth charts. Internally there's this funny graph where our usage has, of PRs, our merged PRs, has grown 7X since I forget what it was called.Swyx [00:02:57]: I think Dev, maybe tweeted that. Yes.Walden [00:03:01]: it grew like 7X over, the last, I think it was, two months, three months, something like that. And then you see our engineering headcount growth. It's, gone up by, 10% or something.Swyx [00:03:11]: We were, we were afraid To release this. So this is Devin commit percentages on all Devin repos, was 16% in January and now 80% in March.Walden [00:03:25]: It's a big shift right now. And so it makes sense that a lot of people are now thinking about, buying Devin, but also maybe, trying to build their own and there's Lots of I have a lot of fun building Devin, so I can see why other people would want to build their own cloud agents as well. Matt, well, maybe it's good to hear, what initially inspired you to try to build OpenInspect?OpenInspect: Ramp, Cloud Agents, and Open SourceCole [00:03:49]: OpenInspect came about, through primarily my clients observing how they were using tools like Claude, OpenAI's Codex at the time, and seeing some of the friction that they were having with it. Primarily the Claude was being used through Slack, and a big issue they ran into was that the sessions that were launched were specific to whoever called it via Slack. And so if a PM was the one who invoked the session and they would then go to pass context to engineering can't see the session. And that in itself was a deal breaker because the PM, “Hey, engineering, can you jump in?” But there's nothing to jump in on unless they're copy-pasting out or the single response that came back. And so seeing some of these problems, I had built a similar architecture internally, just to experiment with, test out different ideas as this trend of moving off of localhost was starting to become, And as Ramp released their blog post, I had a lot of the pieces for this already in place, and just thought it would be funny to, see what Claude could do just purely from the blog post. And on my X account, there's actually a thread of where I live tweeted, going through thisCole [00:05:14]: comparing GPT and Claude as both of them are going through it.Swyx [00:05:17]: On the announcement thing or something else?Cole [00:05:19]: right after it got released. We can put it in the show notes. Yeah, it was helpful that I had already knew how to verify the system. I knew what I was looking for. I think Ramp did a great job of really illustrating, the technical aspects of how to build something. It was much more than just like, “Hey, we built a great system.” It was, “And here's how you can build it too.” And so, I resonated a lot with that, just with the problems that I was already seeing, and I thought that, looking around, I didn't really see anything in the open source community that, met this type of system. I think there's a lot that run, in localhost like Superset, Conductor, and many others.But nothing that was actually running in the cloud. And so, I built it, and I thought it was interesting to just open source it and allow anyone to then have a foundation that they can mix and match on top of.The Business of Background Agents: Open Source vs. DevinSwyx [00:06:16]: So literally after Devin was launched was, there was OpenDevin Which became All Hands. I don't know if you tried that orWalden [00:06:22]: I was going to say, one of the things that interested me a lot with OpenInspect was, you didn't try to go make it then something you monetize. There are a lot of, I think, these open source projects would then go and really try to, raise VSwyx [00:06:36]: That's why no OpenDevin. Yeah.Walden [00:06:38]: yeah, and how did you think about that? I thought that was very interesting.Cole [00:06:44]: I thought, and just what I had seen across my clients, was that having a background agent system is going to become a critical infrastructure within their company. And so because of that, I think that I wanted to open source it so that they could fork it and put in whatever customization they wanted. To that question though, I get asked all, “Oh, are you going to raise? Are you going to turn this into a service?”Walden [00:07:08]: I'm sure you've gotten offers.Cole [00:07:09]: but primarily I don't want to do that for a few reasons. One, I think that I don't want to compete for, $20 a seat. I think that is just a really difficult business. I think it's very easy to copy the main pieces of it. Again, I built this fairly quickly. And I think because you are not owning, I guess, the entire stack, it's hard to monetize. You have money being made at the sandbox layer with Daytona, E2b, many other players. You have money being made at the model layer. And you sit in this weird in-between gray area where what are you actually selling? You're selling, I guess, the infrastructure. You're selling, the integrations maybe.Swyx [00:07:55]: let's ask the guy. What are you What are you selling?Walden [00:07:59]: Well, yeah, there's multiple layers to this in practice, and actually it's funny you mentioned the infrastructure, ‘cause when we got started building Devin as well, we had to go figure out how to make the infrastructure as well because,Swyx [00:08:10]: You had to build this two years before everyone else,?Swyx [00:08:15]: Including, the model sideWalden [00:08:17]: It was not, it was not very polished at the start, when we just built it off of raw VMs from cloud providers like EC2, the boot up time was so slow, I think, And especially then, turning off the machines, saving them, and then to be able to bring them back up again when the, when you want Devin to wake up again later. It would just be out cold for like 10 minutes because that's just how long these systems took. They were not built for this repeated down and up usage. And so we actually had to go do all of that. And as a result now, one thing we offer when we go and sell Devin to people is, you don't have to worry about all the compute side of things. We'll make it work. We'll make it work in your cloud if you want it to. But aside from the product, and I want to go into the agents and the tuning of the intelligence part later, but I think a big part of what we do at Cognition as well is to just make sure that your company learns and uses and adopts these coding agents. ‘Cause I think for especially the largest enterprises in the world, you find that there is a lot of people who want to move over to using AI for their day-to-day workloads. But because of the way projects are planned, because, not everyone is literate in using AI in these ways, having a team of engineers who can actually go in and onboard you, set up all the integrations you need, the automations you need to really get to that level of, leverage with AI, is super helpful. And so We do that. We show thought partners to the customers that we work with as well.Swyx [00:09:56]: So let's talk about, architectural stuff. I think that's always, that is something that was the topic of conversation between the two of you. Is this, the mental model that you want to start with or something else? I'll just leave the floor open to you guys.Agent Architecture: Harness in the Box vs. Out of the BoxCole [00:10:11]: I think, maybe we can start here as just a general what are the pieces of a background agent system. And then maybe we can go into some of the nuances of, Decisions that you can make.Swyx [00:10:22]: But I guess I also Like, what, maybe what Walden is saying is the agent is like in this open code box, I guess. Right? This is infra, and then there's, that's the agent. And you had this discussion about whether you put the agent in here or in Out externally. Can you tease that out?Cole [00:10:39]: In a background agent systems, you have a decision to make of where the agent is actually going to run. This is typically described as the harness in the box or out of the box. With running the agent in the box, you're making some trade-offs by doing that. The negative trade-off you're making is primarily security. Because the agent is running in that box, unless you otherwise design it, all of your secrets need to go into that box as well. And given the nature of AI, it can be unpredictable, and you could very easily end up accidentally exfilling your secrets, or other unintended behavior. Now, the out of the box is the idea that we are going to have the actual agent running not directly in the sandbox, and we will have, quote-unquote, the brain of the agent running in some type of worker, control plane. That sandbox then is going to serve as the hands where the brain is basically operating and making tool calls into that environment to manipulate it. I guess other trade-off that you're making between the two systems is that, in my opinion, running it out of the box is much more complex because, you have state that has to be managed, whereas if you're running it in the box, all of the state of that agent is actually in the box, and yes, it's you could persist it elsewhere, but it's all localized and you have less concerns to worry about.Walden [00:12:08]: I think a lot of that, what you mentioned, is why we actually from the start built Devin to what we called separate the brain from the machine. The other thing that this allows you to do is reuse any existing infrastructure you have for dev boxes Perhaps. And so you don't have to worry as much about making a new type of dev box that has all the dependencies the brain needs, as you mentioned, the secrets the brain needs as well. One thing that we've seen some customers run into is, you have a GitHub app and you want Devin, your agent, whatever, be able to interact with GitHub through this application, but then you have different users with different actual permissions. If they are all interacting through the same GitHub app and there's no actual, separation between the system that decides, what it does and the actual secrets on the machine, then you run into an issue where, okay, it's hard to do the separation. But in practice, with Devin, it's much easier because we just say whatever you put on the machine, that is, the scope of basically what the user is free to do, what the agent is free to do. So only put the most scoped secrets on that machine, and then the brain is fully not accessible from the machine. So you don't have to worry about messing with the, any of the most secure parts of the brain if the user is free to do whatever they want with the machine.Swyx [00:13:31]: I was going to just bring, I have this, chart from OpenAI, where I don't know if this is, in the box, out of the box. That is something that they do use to describe it. And then also recently Anthropic did, managed agentsSwyx [00:13:44]: Which is, this is their thing. I don't know. It's all, it's all variations of the same pattern, right?Cole [00:13:49]: So this would be out of the box.Swyx [00:13:51]: Which, is preferable for them because it's less work?Cole [00:13:56]: I would say it's more work.Swyx [00:13:58]: It's more work?Cole [00:13:58]: But it, in my opinion, it is the better architecture of the two. It's just, you're taking on a bit of complexity by doing that.Repo Setup, Docker, and VM-Based Development EnvironmentsWalden [00:14:07]: One thing I've not seen a lot of other players do well is how do you manage what's actually on the box? And this can be complex for many reasons. Let's say you have a big repository that's changing and updating a lot with changing dependencies. How do you make sure that the working environment of the agent actually stays up to date, has all the credentials it needs to, let's say, run the app and test it, and all the things you want your autonomousSwyx [00:14:34]: So a repo setup.Walden [00:14:35]: Exactly. So in, internally At Cognition, we call this repo setup.Cole [00:14:39]: The hardest part ofWalden [00:14:40]: It's been a perennial problem since the start of the company, of how do we help people get this set up? Because not everyone just has, working cloud environments working out of the box. And do you find this to be a common problem withSwyx [00:14:53]: How do you solve it?Walden [00:14:53]: Your clients?Cole [00:14:54]: This is a very common problem, and through my consulting, this is a lot of what I help teams do. A lot of teams don't really have great developer environment setups, if any. A lot of the times it's, “Go talk to Bob and get the secrets,” and that obviously doesn't work when the agent needs to actually set this up. And so a lot of that, most teams are using Docker Compose or some type of microservices. And so for theSwyx [00:15:19]: Even in prod?Cole [00:15:20]: Not in prod. With the OpenInspect, you are using this primarily to interact, and make code changes. There is other use cases, but you can hook, whether through CLI, MCPs, other tools, you can then hook that into your production systems primarily for, SRE type use cases. But you are not, necessarily, trying to test your prod internal microservice through the system.Walden [00:15:48]: And you mentioned Docker Compose. I think one direction we saw some of our friends take early on was, using Docker containers as the level of abstraction for their models. There's lots of reasons, I think, why Docker containers are not great. One thing is, Docker container's not really a true security boundary, for one. But the other is, if you are running real applications, a lot of times those applications use Docker, and then you have to think about Docker in Docker, which is, really weird. And so I think part of, the really hard challenge of getting VMs to work, why did we do that? Well, it was because we realized that you actually needed, full VMs to be able to do these types of things. And especially nowadays where there's actually value in running the application and clicking around and sending you screen recordings of these things. The value just, keeps adding on top of that. But it is a decision I see people run into when they try to build their own systems, is, “Oh, do we, in addition to this, do we put the agent in the machine or out of the machine? Do we use Docker? Do we use something else?” What do you recommend people nowadays?Cole [00:16:57]: I think Docker is a good solution for maybe not running the agent, but running your infrastructure, because that is more or less the same setup your engineers are probably already using. If they're not, then I don't know what they're using. But they're probably already using Docker Compose.Swyx [00:17:14]: I've always had a small candle for web containers. I don't know if you guys have tried them before.Swyx [00:17:19]: To me, they were, supposed to be like Docker Light.Cole [00:17:22]: Is it?Swyx [00:17:22]: I don't know.Cole [00:17:22]: No, I haven't tried it. But yeah, I think any environment that you've set up that is a good experience for your developer naturally lends itself to being easy to set up for the agent. And once you figure out that local developer story, you've more or less solved the agent in a sandbox, environment setup. OpenInspect does have hooks as well, where you can, run a setup SH script that will pre-install everything. You can then pre-snapshot that build so it starts instantly, and then there is a second hook to actually then, restore the state of the sandbox when it comes back. And so you can already have all of those microservices running and basically get the same experience that you would on your machine within the sandbox.Testing Agents: Computer Use, Screenshots, and Real App WorkflowsWalden [00:18:08]: Another thing that we've been thinking a lot about is like Different VM service offerings. Have you had customers where they needed like macOS specific VMs or like Windows specificWalden [00:18:20]: VMs?Walden [00:18:22]: There are like many technologies in the world that only work on specific types of machines, right? If you're building a.NET application that has to run on Windows or like, maybe more commonly if you want to build iOS or macOS Does that workSwyx [00:18:32]: Does Commission supportSwyx [00:18:33]: Choices like that?Walden [00:18:35]: The fundamental architecture we do, because we do the separation, it does support, but the actual work in progress is happening right now on these. Another thing that we've actually recently added support now for, it's in beta, is doing Android development. To do that, we needed to support, I think, nested virtualization within our machines because the VM itself is like a, is a virtualized Firecracker instance, and then you had to then run another Android emulator inside. And there's like weird performance issues that like, it, which is why it's like still in beta. We have to think through these problems, but it unlocks a lot for anyone who wants to do Android development.Swyx [00:19:13]: I was trying to find like a reference video for the testing thing. I couldn't find it, but I think you worked on the testing, capability. Why call it testing and not like computer use or I don't know, it's, what's the general Category of problem?Walden [00:19:26]: I think that when people think about the ability of an AI to run your app and test it, I think they actually over-index on the computer use part of it because computer use in my mind is the literal, okay, you want what button you want to click. Can you emit the right coordinates to go click that button? I think testing is actually a really interesting likeWalden [00:19:48]: Problem-solving, challenge for these AIs because if you wanted to do arbitrary testing, imagine you make a change that spans the frontend and the backend, maybe, even some other like even more deeply nested service. To actually test that change, we have to reason through what-- how do you first run these applications to orchestrate with each other with the right version of the code? Then, okay, how do I trigger the feature or how do I make the thing actually happen? And this can get arbitrarily hard, maybe you have to be an admin. Maybe a certain thing has to be feature flagged on. Maybe, you have to like run two sessions and then send us a very specific word into one of them to trigger a specific behavior. And figuring out how do you do that requires a lot of code base context, requires, a lot of orchestration that we've specifically done. And in some cases, we found that you actually, no one frontier model can actually do this full end-to-end task itself.Walden [00:20:42]: We've seen cases where we actually had to orchestrate different frontier models together to solve this problem together. That is where we spend most of our time when we think about this testing problem, not so much the computer use part. Computer use for what it's worth has gotten a lot better with recent models and it's made that part of the job certainly easier.Swyx [00:20:58]: Especially with like even 4.7, that they released yesterday, apparently like way better in terms of the vision stuff, which is going to be encompassing computer use.Walden [00:21:08]: Having evals for all these as well is something that like takes a while to build up. And having the evals be right is tricky as well. Do you ever see like, clients who are building their own agents have to start standing up evals to make sure things don't regress?Swyx [00:21:25]: Not so much evals in the traditional sense, but specific to the testing part that has just gone in. I just added support for screenshots And in theory you can also do video. I need to put in a plugin to do that. But they do show up natively, and it was a very heavily requested feature, especially after Cursor's recording came out. I think that was very enlightening for everyone of like, “Oh, this is a very good feature to actually have.”, I think with Devin you guys have had this for a while.Swyx [00:21:57]: Oh, yeah. See how screenshots work. Yeah, I don't know if there's anything, super and not obvious. It's like once what feature to build, you can just prompt it and it Will mostly work.Walden [00:22:09]: I think to Walden's point, though, the computer use is a subset of the larger testing problem, and I think that's very specific to the code base that you're working and it's not something that, out of the box that you could just solve it. The-- you do need the code base context to actually know how to test it. And I think in the case of a background agent system, you fortunately do have that code base locally that what is changing and could then inspect it and use that to drive the model.Swyx [00:22:40]: For those who haven't seen it before, this is an example of how it works. You, after the PR is done, you click testing approved, and then it sends you back a video. What I really like is that it labels, It's very small here, but it actually labels what it's testing. And then it-- and then you actually see the cursor and everything. So I don't know, yeah, the engineering in this, just Whatever you want to show. ‘cause this is like, this is one of those like, oh, few of the AGI moments, right? ‘cause Once I look at this, I actually don't I wish I can just merge inside Of Slack instead of going to GitHub ‘cause I don't need to see the code. I know it works.Walden [00:23:19]: Maybe a new feature in Cursor. Yeah, the annotations at the bottom was also a big difference for me when I, when I added those.Swyx [00:23:27]: It's just like, what am I looking at? What are you trying to demonstrate?Walden [00:23:30]: Exactly. There's a surprisingly long tail of small details that ends up making a big difference for this end metric of like how fast do you actually merge the code in. One experience that we spent a lot of time tuning early on was what is the right experience on GitHub for these tools. Because I think, most tools out there when you build the agent, you'll think about, oh, it'll create the PR for you. We try to take that a step further and say, “Oh, what if we actually made sure you could interact Devin, with direct Devin directly on GitHub?” And so we made sure that you can comment on GitHub, and Devin would actually receive those comments and address them back. But there's actually quite a bit of tuning you have to do here because you can imagine that actually like-We recently have Devin Review, for example. Devin Review will post comments on his own PR And then Devin has to then goGitHub Workflows: Devin Review, Comments, and PR AutomationSwyx [00:24:23]: He answers his own comments, which is Really loopy. So like, yeah, I like that it just updates here that it's, that I have commented But usually it's just me saying like, “Hey, merged, fix any merge conflicts.”Walden [00:24:37]: The, so when Devin fixes his own comments, you might be scared that, oh, maybe I'll infinite loop. But we've put a lot of work into making sure it doesn't, both by making sure that the comments are high signal, but also that the agent is thoughtful about what comments it immediately goes and tries to fix, and what comments it's like, “Wait a second, I think you're wrong.” Actually, that's one of my favorite moments is when Devin tells me that I'm wrong, when I try to get it to do something different. But tuning that behavior, actually makes a big difference in terms of how useful the actual GitHub experience is.Cole [00:25:06]: I think to touch on that as well, I think having the AI reviewer integrated into the system is a critical part of this background system. OpenInspect does have that. It has a GitHub code reviewer that you can control the prompt. It does do comments as well. It doesn't do them automatically yet. The capability is there, but it's not fully used.Swyx [00:25:27]: So you have to ask for it?Cole [00:25:28]: you do, yeah. You can tag it on GitHub, and then whatever you named your, GitHub bot, it will then follow up on it. It will then, if you have merge conflicts or whatever you have asked it to resolve, it will then resolve it, but it doesn't do it automatically yet.Integrations: Slack, MCP, and First-Party Agent InterfacesWalden [00:25:42]: Well, I'm curious, what is, the most common thing that people end up requesting, that they still need on top of OpenInspect when you help them go implement it?Cole [00:25:52]: I think a lot of it comes down to actually integrating it into the company. It's one thing to have the background agent system set up, but if it isn't actually integrated into your larger ecosystem, it isn't that useful. It is useful to be able to kick off sessions, but what we really want to be able to do is hook it into all of our other systems, whether that is the production database with read-only credentials, the logs, a Confluence or internal knowledge-based system. I think that is where I see the huge leap for companies, and that can be a challenge for companies as well who are maybe not familiar with exactly how to approach it, especially if they're in environments that have more compliance type things where, access control can be pretty big and how do you deliberately think about these problems, I find to be, one of the problems that comes with a system like this.Walden [00:26:46]: The thing we found is So, MCPs, obviously it has been like this, really big explosion of, oh, you can go, integrate it with all these different things. But to actually get the integration right and the and get the right experience, oftentimes we found that we had to go build our own ad hoc things. I think Slack is a great example of this. You could give your agent a Slack MCP and okay, it can post messages back to you on Slack. But we actually use Devin like a coworker in Slack, and that's how it's been built from the ground up. But to do that, you actually need to, support webhooks that come back, right? And then Devin has to respond in a natural way and then hopefully don't spam your threads too much and annoy the people in your company. So you got to tune that experience just right. Especially when there's a lot of back and forths, we find that we actually have to go beyond the simple MCP integrations in these places.Swyx [00:27:39]: I just pulled up the MCP marketplace. I know this is a Fair amount of work. Is the answer to eventually take first party control of all the top MCPs? Is that theWalden [00:27:48]: I would love a world where you could have something that's more expressive than MCP. That, goes both ways, not just a set of tools, but a proper system that interacts back and lets it Have the right experience with all these interfaces.Swyx [00:28:03]: So there actually is sampling in the MCP spec, but nobody Uses it, right?Walden [00:28:07]: And so I think that's the other part is, actually we found that when the MCP spec starts to get too complicated, it starts to lose its original promise of Being like a simple one-step connect. Now then we have to go figure out how to support all these different variations of things and It starts to look a lot like just building the first party integrations in a lot of these cases now.Cole [00:28:29]: I think it matters, too, how critical it is to your company, right? If this is something that nearly every session is going through, it probably makes sense to own it so that you can make optimizations on top of it Versus just whatever is off the shelf.Swyx [00:28:43]: Awesome. Other than MCPs, what else, sorry, well, I don't know if that's Narrowing in too much on, integrations. But what else? What other elements of building OpenInspect or Devin that you guys really sink on?Memory and Knowledge: What Agents Should RememberCole [00:28:59]: I think, a problem that comes up very frequently is this idea of memories or knowledge base.Swyx [00:29:05]: Oh, boy. How do you solve it?Cole [00:29:08]: so not solved yet, is the short answer.Cole [00:29:11]: it's something, there's a open issue for it, someone asking about it.Swyx [00:29:16]: There's, I, D Wiki hasn't indexed anything about memory yet.Cole [00:29:20]: how I'm seeing it solved across my clients is primarily through skills. I find that skills can be a good gap within that or updating Claude MD, but I think memory as a whole is a pretty unsolved problem, and it is why I've been hesitant to add it. I think there is parts of memory and that can be addressed, but I think as a whole it's a very difficult retrieval problem.Swyx [00:29:44]: Oh my God. RAMP didn't write anything about memory? I see zero search results.Walden [00:29:50]: No. Memory can be quite tricky to get right because it's the retrieval, but also the generation of the memories that can be really tricky. You don't want it to just like Remember very specific details.Swyx [00:29:59]: Walk us through the Devin memory journey because I know there's been a journey.Walden [00:30:03]: the first version of memory that like stuck around for a while was A system we have called Knowledge. And the idea was we wanted it to pick up things over time and not need the user to be proactive about teaching Devin things. So, okay, any time you remind Devin, “Wait, no, that's not quite the way you're supposed to use Git”Like, we actually want Devin to say, “Hey, do you want me to actually just remember this for the future?” And for you to just basically quickly approve or reject and for it to build up over time. ‘Cause I find that, 95%, I think, or some crazy stat like that of the memories that Devin has are all through these auto-generated things. Very few people actually just want to sit down and write big docs on Here's how you're supposed to work with the technology, et cetera. The generation and the retrieval has been something that we've been trying to tune a lot over the years. Generation, you don't want it to remember something like, if you asked one time to like, “Oh, please open as a draft PR,” you don't want to be like, “Oh, everyone forever now should get their PRs as draft PRs.” But you do want some, conveyor. Maybe you want to say like, “Oh, Cole generally likes, things to be created as draft PRs.” Same with retrieval, if you have thousands of these memories, how do you actually make sure they're retrieved at the right time? And that can be quite tricky to do right without exploding the context with a bunch of useful yeah, useless information. Surprising amount of just, eval work to just make sure that, memory is, remains a reliable system as new models come and go.Cole [00:31:31]: Do you have anything that you could share on, memory pruning? And like the temporal aspect of memory?Swyx [00:31:36]: Deleting and forgetting?Walden [00:31:39]: The, today, the, So the things they could do is it could edit memories. And so if your memory used to say like, “Oh, Cole likes to open everything as like a draft PR,” then you can imagine, “No, don't do that.” And then it'll say, “Oh, do you want me to update the memory to be Cole now want everything as, open PRs?” I think that at the same time we don't know if this is going to be the final version of the system. Whatever we have here will probably, translate into the new system that we'll be coming up with. But I think one big difference between two years ago and today is these agents are really good at using anything that resembles a file system natively. And so part of us are, is thinking, “Oh, should we rebuild memories to feel more like a file system that we let the agent navigate on its own?” That's been an interesting exploration. Also similar ideas in the scale space.Swyx [00:32:35]: I am pulling up OpenClaude's memory thing right now. So memory, OpenClaude has like this like daily memory journal thing, right? And you can I mean, that is a file system you can grep through and is a source of truth. I don't know if it's the best. It's probably super noisy, but at least, if you lose something you can discover it or you can apply some, forgetting algorithm to, more ancient memories that don't get recalled again or something. I don't know.Walden [00:33:01]: One thing we've been trying to do to push the boundaries of how you use agents at your company is letting an agent basically have a very similar file, a memory.md or something, and just like be your permanent PM for a specific set of issues maybe. So we have like some Slack channels internally, maybe a Slack channel dedicated to, a specific product like DeepWiki maybe. And you can imagine that, or you want a Devin that never stops, it's just always awake, but it has this like memory dock that it can just maintain for itself about, okay, what are like the number one priorities of what we have to fix and prioritize? Who is responsible for some upcoming work? Maybe they'll even Devin will even tag you on some recurring basis. And so it's been an interesting move to see, okay, how can we actually use Devin for more than just engineering? Can we actually upstream above the engineering process and maybe it's just Devin creating tickets, which then maybe some humans do, but then maybe other Devins do.Swyx [00:34:00]: One of my more fun automations is go research competitors and just suggest stuff to me on a weekly basis. That's the automation. I can't find it right now, but basically it just like, “Look at competitors and suggest things.” “And here are three things that you've suggested that I don't want any more of,” and you just stick that in the prompts. But like I wish actually So for like when I, for example, when I reject a PR, I wish that it updated memory so that I can then just not have to go up, go back and update the scheduled, sync, but anyway, feature request.Walden [00:34:31]: what? We might change it soon. I guess OpenInspect, in the time you've been around, has there been anything you tried to implement but then you had to like undo and like do a different way?OpenInspect Architecture: Webhooks, Control Planes, and Agent StateCole [00:34:41]: Nothing yet, but something that is on my mind. The initial way that I built it was that each of the integrations lives as its own package. And so you have The Slack bot, which is what's handling the webhooks, and then is basically interacting with the control plane. As I'm seeing the system starting to be more integrated, specifically with the GitHub bot integration, I'm considering bringing that all into the central control plane because especially now I want to start, And a request that I'm getting is the ability to monitor, the actual, pull requests being merged, as well as just tracking ofSwyx [00:35:19]: What do I have open?Cole [00:35:21]: What do I have open? How many of these are getting merged? How many comments are showing up? To just understand the health of the system. And so in the case of a GitHub app, you only have one webhook. And so then it's a question of do I put that webhook in that GitHub bot package? That's weird. It doesn't really make sense to live there because that package is more for like the code reviewer. Or do I like centralize it? So that's something that's on my mind of, making that decision. I think the other one we touched on earlier is the harness in the box versus out of the box. I think long term the architecture will eventually come back out of the box. Some of the newer tools that I've added are calling back into the control plane so that you don't have the secrets in the sandbox. And so I think long term I probably will pull the actual, agent out of the box, but I think for now it's fine.Subagents and Multi-Agent Systems: When Parallelism Helps or HurtsSwyx [00:36:16]: Just, a quick question on pulling the agent out of the box. I'm One thing I'm very bullish on this year is agents calling other agents or spawning sub-agents or Whatever you want to call it. Does that make it harder or easier? I can't tell. Because if the harness is in the box, you can just spin up more boxes. If the harness is outside the box, then you're, it's less easy because you are, you have a unicorn pet of a, of a harness that's, living outside the box.Cole [00:36:45]: In theory it would be the same way, right? Whether, one agent has launched many, sub-sessions within it, OpenInspect, for example, can launch sub-sessions and actually create other environments and then monitor them. In the case where it is out of the box, that would basically just be an additional session that's running. And so that session is also running outside of the box. It's running in your worker plane, wherever you're running this. And then you really just have to think about how does your top level agent then interact with it. I do think it can be more complex, just ‘cause again, you have now a more difficult architecture. But I think if you figured it out once, it's probably fine.Swyx [00:37:26]: Well, then I'm just, throwing it open to you in terms of, I call this like meta Devin management. Which is like the, Devin's calling Devins or Devin scheduling Devins or querying trajectories or anything like that. What have you built or unshipped, anything?Cole [00:37:46]: I think one of the surprising things we've seen is that a lot of the ways that, these, separate agents work with each other, and you want them to, parallelize their work, has still mostly followed the same manager sub-agents regime. And a lot of people I think are excited about this world where you have swarms of agents that, talk with each other all over the place. We've actually given Devin an MCP so they can just go arbitrarily message other Devins And create new Devins, et cetera. But I guess, it somehow creates, a really chaotic world in that sense. And so we've still found that most practical use on a day-to-day basis has been one single Devin.Cole [00:38:33]: Figuring out how to segregate the work and get, have other Devins work on it in, a relatively isolated sense, each with their own boxes Not sharing machines, so there's, a very little room for conflict is the regime that you have to create today.Swyx [00:38:50]: I'll call out, the experiments from Cursor, right? This is Wilson Lin's work on Single agent to multi-agent, and you're obviously famously on the side of don't build multi-agent. But they went through the whole thing, only to arrive at, this Which is exactly what Devin has, I think.Cole [00:39:08]: I think there will be a revision to that post at some point AboutSwyx [00:39:12]: Tell us about itCole [00:39:12]: I think multi-agents were very much not at all possible a year ago. You do see more multi-agent experiments today, but you can argue, are they really multi-agents, or are they just just, tool calls,? There are people who, will create sub-agents to go look for XYZ file, XYZ implementation. Has really nice context management benefits because all of the tool calls and tokens that it spends then get collapsed back to just the answer for the main agent. There's a lot of benefits to doing this. We basically have Devin do this with Deep Bookie, make a call out to Deep Bookie, give you back the results, but that feels like a tool call,? It's not like these, two collaborators actually talking back with each, back and forth with each other. But I think the thing that gives me the most bullishness that multi-agents might actually be possible is actually what I said earlier about Devin will actually sometimes tell me I'm wrong and push back, and I think that demonstrates a level of maturity and communication today that makes a multi-agent world possible. One, can two agents who have seen different information come back to each other and actually figure out who is right, what is the correct implementation? They're not just, yes men. Claude, I guess is like, used to just say, what is it? “You're right,” or,Swyx [00:40:25]: “You're absolutely right.”Cole [00:40:26]: “You're absolutely right.” Yeah.Swyx [00:40:28]: The Have you seen, did you seeCole [00:40:29]: The age is overSwyx [00:40:30]: The Codex app troll in Topic? This is the Codex app. Inside of Settings, there's a little, there's a little Easter egg, right? So if you go to, the Themes or Appearance, right? There's all these, color codes, and the top is absolutely, and it's the Topic's colors. Which is such a troll. Anyway.Model Behavior: Pushback, Adversarial Prompts, and Agent SkepticismCole [00:40:53]: I love that Easter egg. Did you discover that yourself?Swyx [00:40:54]: No, it was, someone was, tweeting about it And I was like, I was like, “Is this true?” Because, sometimes people just tweet stuff to, get a rise out of you. But yeah, there you go, in Topic colors.Cole [00:41:06]: Yeah. So yeah, we're out of this regime where, it just says you're absolutely right, and they can have real conversations and real back and forths.Swyx [00:41:13]: You can prompt it as well to be more adversarial or whatever. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that, I mean, to me, that is more intelligence, right? That is not just something that's, a dumb tool, it's actually pushing back on you I think. Yeah.Cole [00:41:24]: when you mentioned, of course, the blog posts. There was one blog they had where they fed a swarm of agents together and built a browser.Swyx [00:41:34]: That was I think that was the one.Cole [00:41:36]: You can have, likeSwyx [00:41:37]: I think it's the same oneCole [00:41:37]: Creation of it. We found a surprising success of, don't do a swarm or anything, just have one Devin, it does its own context management. Just let it keep running for a while and give it some crazy tasks. I think we asked it to, rebuild, a Windows OS system. And it managed to do it just like, going on for long enough. It'sSwyx [00:41:55]: Was this Andrew's thing?Cole [00:41:58]: there were lots of demos that we ended up not posting, ‘cause at some point we'd just be posting way too much a bunch of, Demos. But I love that because it shows that I think the multi-agent thing still has, a bit of exciting sexiness to it, which is maybe still beyond still, the actual delta it adds to the capabilities of these systems. But it's absolutely the future. I think we're heading in that direction and we can see the progress being made there already.Swyx [00:42:25]: If I were to, make one super minor pushback because I don't feel that confident about it yetCole [00:42:33]: Go for itSwyx [00:42:33]: But I've had Ryan Lopopolo from OpenAI on the pod And he's a super slop cannon, right? Oh my God, that's my coding agent being done. I downloaded this, Peon Ping. I don't know if you guys have heard this. It takes like-, sound packs from popular games like, Command and Conquer and Warcraft, and then it plays it whenever it's done. And so it's like, “Work,” or whatever, “At your command,” or something. Anyway, what I got from the Cursor code base and from Ryan's thing was that there's a slop cannon approach where you try to loosen the single agent's, bottleneck, and I feel like that is, probably an, a very important thing to try to figure out. I don't think anyone's, really solved it. Because then you just have more reviewer slop on top of the agent slop To try to wrangle it all. Ryan will probably very strongly object that I say that he hasn't solved it, but he thinks he's He thinks he's completely solved it. But I think it's still I think it's, very important, ‘cause, that is a bottleneck, right? I feel Devin is slow sometimes Because I'm like, well, yeah, this is very readable and very sensible, but also it is slower than it could be if I just, I want a button to just say, “Just ramp this up 1,000 next parallel, in parallel and just, see what happens,”? And I don't know if that's, feasible at some point in the future.Code Review, Entropy, and AI SlopWalden [00:43:55]: I And we've also run experiments internally where we've basically tried to build entire products, true products that we knew we would eventually ship, but for now, let's try to see if we can do it just by purely, vibe coding on top of each other, auto merge, no code review at all. And then there's this benchmark of how many weeks can you go onto this for Before you say, “We have the trashiest code base.”Walden [00:44:18]: “Let's actually rewrite it from scratch.”Swyx [00:44:19]: Start a new factory, yeah. What'd you find?Walden [00:44:21]: I think we found that the state-of-the-art in December was you can probably, run this for about two weeks. By the end of those two weeks, you'd find that, hey, you want to, change the color of a button. Well, it turns out this button is implemented in, 10 different places, and they, have All these different variations, and oh, you forgot one of them, and actually it's a slightly different color in one spot. And you're like, “Okay, this is too much to work with. Let's actually try to do code review at the same time.” And make sure that we're on top of our software, actually cleaning it up a bit And making sure it's done in a scalable way.Cole [00:44:54]: I think building on that, the idea of, you don't have to look at code, I think is generally a bad idea. And the meme that I have for thatWalden [00:45:03]: What timeline, all right, is Do you think that statement will be true on?Cole [00:45:06]: I think probably for a while it'll be true that you should continue to look at your code. A problem that I see a lot of teams run into that I work with who are embracing AI native, AI first coding, is The meme that I have is that your code base regresses to your worst engineer, because that engineer who is, very gung-ho about AI and is not auditing their code, their pattern starts cementing into the code, and now the AI is referencing their patterns. And so now their if/else block that, is 20 if/elses back and forth, the AI is seeing that as the pattern of how things are done and starts to then exponentially grow this slop. And I find to your point, a pretty good approach to that is having scheduled cleanup, whether by humans or through systems, that are looking for duplication. They then address that. You'll end up with like 12 helpers for how to format a date. And you need to address that, because otherwise it will continue to sprawl.Swyx [00:46:09]: Within balance, I think it's fine to have some duplication, and then sometimes To have garbage collection, right? Yeah. The What I've been, talking about with a lot of engineering leaders is that you want to be very strict about the boundaries between modules, and it's your job as an architect, as a CTO, whatever, to say like, “Okay, here's the hard contract between you guys and you guys. Whatever you do inside this black box is your business. You do whatever. But between these guys, let's be, really damn clear, and any movement must be signed off by a human or me,” or. Then, and like that's that. I don't know if you have any other modifications or advice.Walden [00:46:44]: Well, I guess generally on the topic of, where humans can be useful, I found that ‘cause, some of these, really deep infra problems, sometimes just having a human that just has, really deep expertise can make a big difference. I've actually seen this come into play when actually building agents. So we've had a few friends now, try building their own coding agents, and I think one same problem that I recurringly heard a lot of them run into was this problem of like, “Oh, Grep is really slow on our agents' machines.” And so a lot of them, I assume because they're using AI and they themselves don't have, super deep infra background knowledge, say, “Okay, we're going to go build our own custom Grep index. It's going to be really fast,” and use that as a way around this problem. When we ran into this problem About like, maybe like a year and a half ago when we were, in the early days of building Devin, we obviously didn't have AI then. We just asked our, how to, how to do this. You can just swap out a new Grep index, so.Infrastructure Details: Grep, File Systems, and SandboxesSwyx [00:47:45]: What do you mean you hand-coded Devin? What?Walden [00:47:48]: It's like, can you believe we hand-wrote this code? And we had, our infra people who are really amazing, they were looking into it and they're like, “Oh, what? We realized that actually the root cause of this problem is actually super simple, but like fine-grain detail,” which is that a lot of these virtual machines actually underlying them don't use real file systems. They use these, network file systems where things are actually cached over the network actually in S3. So when you're Grepping, you're actually making network calls Every time you're doing these things, and that's why Grep is extremely slow on these machines. And so again, goes back to, what is all of the crazy infra work that we had to do to actually get these machines working. If you try to do this yourself, there are tons of small details like this, and so we had to eventually go swap out that network file system. ButSwyx [00:48:35]: I think there's a write-up about it, right? Silas did one about the virtual file system.Walden [00:48:38]: Oh, that was a whole other thing. TheSwyx [00:48:39]: Oh, that's a different thingWalden [00:48:40]: The BlockDev file storage formatSwyx [00:48:42]: I'll bring it upWalden [00:48:42]: Which is, a file system format that we built so that the VMs could be spun up and down very quickly. Basically, the intuition behind this is-Imagine you have, a terabyte of disk, and your agent only, wrote, a hundred lines of code on top of that disk. How long does it, say, take to, save and re-bring up that disk? And most systems, because you're not optimizing for this case, it's just, on the order of a terabyte of work because you have to Save all of that and bring it back up. In our system, we try to build a file system that incrementally builds on top of each other. So every time you save and bring the machine back up, you're only doing work that is proportional to effectively the diff in the file system. And so this, shaves off a lot of time in the boot-up process of Devin. I think we This is actually now outdated. We have a newer system inside of Devin. But yeah, there's a lot of tiny details you have to get right here to actually get the day-to-day experience of Devin to be good.Swyx [00:49:39]: It's, not technically agents, but it is agent infra, and when you sell an agent as a company, you sell agent plus agent infra.Walden [00:49:46]: At least the way we do it be And the other The nice thing about having the agent infra being done together is, you We get to deploy Devin in whatever environment we want now. We don't need to wait for some underlying infra provider to also go and support VPC or on-prem or FedGovCloud, for instance. So we can actually go and figure out, okay, since we own the infrastructure, how can we get that set up for you?Cloud Providers: Modal, Daytona, and Enterprise SandboxesSwyx [00:50:12]: Whereas you're Cloudflare dependent.Cole [00:50:15]: so Cloudflare runs the control plane. The sandboxes, Modal is supported. A contributor just added Daytona. E2B is on the roadmap, and I think there's an abstraction in place that if any contributor wants to add a new provider, they can add that in.Walden [00:50:32]: Well, what are, How are the customers you work with Do they generally try to then go set up a contract with another one of these third-party providers? Do they try to do the VMs in-house?Cole [00:50:44]: most of them I see using Modal. I think Modal has a greatWalden [00:50:48]: Shout out Modal.Swyx [00:50:48]: Shout out Modal.Cole [00:50:50]: I think Modal has a great offering. It captures all of the sandbox pieces you need, snapshots being a pretty big piece of that, and given that they also offer GPUs, I think it's a pretty nice offering as a whole.Swyx [00:51:04]: no debate there.Walden [00:51:07]: Modal is great, especially, I think their container offering is, the most natural, and so especially if you are willing to, forego, the full VM requirements Modal is, a really vast place you can spin something up on.Swyx [00:51:20]: Is there a point So Modal's very Python, and I feel like most workload, has really shifted to JavaScript. I don't know if you guys Get the same feeling. So, okay, when I started Landspace and IE and all these things, I was like 50/50 Python and JS, right? That's roughly. I think that's wrong now. I think JS has won. I don't know if you guys Like, I Maybe I'm overstating it, and maybe for cognition, there's, C# and Java and what have you. But for, new greenfield apps, do you feel that Do you get that sense? Does it matter?Cole [00:51:52]: I think that most of the libraries that I see in this space are Python native first, especially in theCole [00:51:58]: Observability space. That said, I think that there is a pretty big appeal of having your entire system in one language. Especially when you have both your frontend and backend communicating, you can have one central type Which is very nice.Swyx [00:52:11]: That's my case against Modal, which is Then you have to run JS. You can run JS inside Modal. It's just, one extra step That, isn't native to the runtime. I don't know ifWalden [00:52:22]: I don't knowSwyx [00:52:23]: Reviews. Do you have numbers? I don't know.Walden [00:52:25]: the one thing I don't like about Python is whenever AI, whenever it writes Python, it always does, the weirdest patterns, andSwyx [00:52:32]: Oh, because it's, mixing two and three or what?Walden [00:52:34]: I think it's something mixing two and three, yeah. The I don't know if you see this. It always tries to do, has attribute on objects as likeCole [00:52:41]: Oh, my God.Walden [00:52:41]: But it's like But that you shouldn't be doing that. It should error if there wasSwyx [00:52:45]: Because it's training on library code?Cole [00:52:47]: I think it's more of, likeCole [00:52:48]: From what I've seen, it's more of, a reward hacking mechanism where it doesn't want to basicallyWalden [00:52:54]: It'll never error.Cole [00:52:54]: It doesn't want the code to fail. And so it Even when it knows it has the attribute, it'll call getattr on a, and for a lot of my clients who have moved towards more autonomous coding, we've put that in as a lint rule That if you do getattr, your pull request is going to fail.Slop Signatures: Comments, Backwards Compatibility, and TypesSwyx [00:53:12]: Ooh, this is a fun topic. Can you tell me more about this? What else is a sign of AI coding that you have to put guards in?Walden [00:53:21]: So we were talking just before this about Opus 4.7. One of the things this new model likes to do is it writes lots of comments. Not like, it'll, comment every line, but it'll write, paragraph, PRDs, on top of every function. But I will say, to its credit, these aren't slop, descriptions like they were before. “Oh, here's what this function does.” It's like, “Oh, here's actually the r

Special discounts up for AIE Melbourne (LS discount) and AIE World's Fair (group discounts up to 25% - CFPs still open for Autoresearch and Vertical AI) Cya there!Abridge did not start as an “GPT wrapper”. It was founded in 2018, years before the Cambrian explosion of AI application layer companies. OpenAI launched ChatGPT publicly on November 30, 2022 and by then, Abridge had already spent years doing the unglamorous work of building trust for one of the highest context, most important workflows in healthcare: the conversation between a patient and a clinician.Abridge's original wedge was clinical documentation. Listen to the visit, generate the note, reduce the clerical burden, and let clinicians spend more time with patients instead of the EHR. By focusing on how doctors actually document, how health systems actually buy, how EHR integration actually works, how clinicians verify outputs, and how missing context during a visit turns into downstream friction across billing, prior authorization, quality, and follow-up, the adoption of LLMs became a force multiplier on a workflow already optimized for sensitive context gathering.The company has scaled fast: Abridge says it is projected to support 80M+ patient-clinician conversations this year across 250 large and complex U.S. health systems, with support for 28+ languages and 50+ specialties. It raised $300M at a $5.3B valuation in June 2025, after a $250M round earlier that year.Today, Janie Lee and Chaitanya “Chai” Asawa of Abridge join us for another crossover pod with Redpoint's Jacob Effron (who is on the board of Abridge) to dive into how Abridge is building the clinical intelligence layer for healthcare starting with ambient documentation, then expanding into clinical decision support, prior authorization, payer/provider/pharma workflows, and eventually real-time agents that act before, during, and after the patient conversation. We go inside the product, data, infra, evals, workflow, privacy, and org design choices behind bringing AI into one of the highest-stakes enterprise environments from 100M+ medical conversations and specialty-specific evals to real-time alerts, EHR integration, de-identification, clinician-scientist teams, and why healthcare may solve some of the hardest AI problems first.We discuss:* Why Abridge started with clinical documentation, “pajama time,” and saving clinicians 10–20 hours a week* The transition from ambient scribe to clinical intelligence layer: save time, save money, and save lives* Why conversations between patients and clinicians may be the most important workflow in healthcare (patient visit summary feature)* Chai's “healthcare-coded Glean” framing: context is king, but healthcare raises the stakes on safety, evals, and rollout* Why Abridge wants AI to feel like “air conditioning”: always in the background, but only interrupting when it truly matters* The prior authorization example: turning a denied MRI weeks later into real-time guidance while the patient is still in the room* Why payer policies, EHR data, medical literature, and hospital-specific guidelines make the problem hard, and also create the moat* How Abridge thinks about ambient form factors: mobile, desktop, in-room devices, nursing workflows, multimodality, and future AR* The multi-sided healthcare customer: CMIOs, CFOs, CIOs, clinicians, patients, payers, and pharma* The hardest AI problem at Abridge: high-quality, low-latency, low-cost real-time support in a high-stakes clinical setting* When Abridge uses frontier models vs proprietary models, and why its unique data from medical conversations matters* Why “every agent is a coding agent underneath,” and how the EHR can be thought of as a filesystem for healthcare agents* How Abridge approaches personalization across individual doctors, specialties, and health systems* Why “AI slop” is AI without context, and how edits, memories, and clinician preferences create a data flywheel* Abridge's eval stack: LFDs, LLM judges, in-house clinicians, third-party evaluators, specialty-specific evals, and progressive rollout* HIPAA, PHI, de-identification, one-way anonymization, customer contracts, and learning from healthcare data safely* What changes when you operate at 100M+ conversations: reliability, cost, post-training, model routing, and infrastructure optimization* Why the same clinical conversation can serve doctors, patients, payers, pharma, and future clinical-trial workflows* How Abridge works with EHRs, and why deep interoperability is table stakes for clinician adoption* Why healthcare AI has regulatory tailwinds, why 80/20 does not work here, and why high-stakes domains may drive AI forward* Why Abridge embeds “clinician scientists” into product and eval teams* What Chai learned from Glean about search, quality, and durable AI infrastructure* Why the future of AI infra may look like context layers, event-driven systems, Kafka, Temporal, sockets, CRDTs, and tools built for humans* Why Janie changed her mind on “PRDs are dead,” and why crisp written clarity matters more in complex AI products* How Abridge uses Claude Code, Cursor, and coding agents internallyAbridge:* Website: https://www.abridge.com/* X: https://x.com/AbridgeHQJanie Lee:* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiejleeChaitanya “Chai” Asawa:* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/casawaTimestamps00:00:00 Introduction and what Abridge does00:02:05 From ambient documentation to clinical intelligence00:04:04 Clinical decision support and context as king00:06:57 Alert fatigue, proactive intelligence, and prior authorization00:12:36 Ambient AI form factors and healthcare customers00:16:59 The hardest AI problems in healthcare00:18:26 Frontier models, proprietary data, and model strategy00:21:07 The EHR as a filesystem for agents00:24:03 Personalization, memory, and clinician preferences00:30:40 Evals, LLM judges, and progressive rollout00:36:47 HIPAA, de-identification, and privacy00:39:21 100M conversations and operating at scale00:44:10 EHR integration and the clinical intelligence layer00:46:39 Healthcare regulation, latency, and high-stakes AI00:50:11 Clinician scientists and long-tail quality00:53:04 Lessons from Glean and durable AI infrastructure00:57:03 The future of agentic healthcare workflows00:57:34 PRDs, product clarity, and building serious AI products01:03:11 AI coding tools at Abridge01:04:06 OutroTranscriptIntroduction: Abridge, Clinical Intelligence, and the Latent Space x Unsupervised Learning CrossoverSwyx [00:00:00]: Okay. This is a special crossover Latent Space Unsupervised Learning pod.Jacob [00:00:07]: Very excited to do this.Jacob [00:00:08]: At this point, we get together once a year.Swyx [00:00:10]: Once a yearJacob [00:00:11]: And this is a fun occasion to get to do it on.Swyx [00:00:13]: I really wanted to talk to Abridge but I felt very underqualified because healthcare is not something we cover very intensely. It just so happens that Redpoint's our big investors and supporters of Abridge.Jacob [00:00:27]: Anytime you want to have a portfolio company on your podcastJacob [00:00:29]: Please, by all means.Swyx [00:00:31]: So we'll introduce our guests. Chai and Janie, welcome to the pod.Janie [00:00:34]: Thanks for having us.Chai [00:00:35]: Thank you.Janie [00:00:35]: We're excited to be here.Chai [00:00:36]: Thank you.Swyx [00:00:36]: So for listeners, what do you guys do, just to situate you guys in the company?Janie [00:00:42]: Abridge is a clinical intelligence layer for health systems. We really started with documentation and building for clinicians and as we think about reducing the burden that clinicians have, they're spending 10 to 20 hours a week on documentation. There's a massive doctor shortage in the country. We also think that conversations between patients and clinicians are probably the most important workflow in healthcare. It's where care is given and received but if you think about the 20% of our GDP that goes towards healthcare, almost everything is a derivative of that conversation, whether it's the claim, the payment, the actual diagnosis given, the treatment. And we've started with a conversation to reduce the burden for doctors on documentation but we're really excited about the path ahead as we become this broader clinical intelligence layer.Chai [00:01:34]: I'm Chai. I work on clinical decision support at Abridge.Swyx [00:01:37]: Yes.Chai [00:01:37]: And so as Janie said, we're uniquely situated where we started off with the clinical note. What I'm really excited about and where we're expanding towards is what are all the things you can do before the conversation, during the conversation and after the conversation if you did have access to all the context about patients, payer guidelines, medical literature and put that together and to serve, how healthcare could look fundamentally different.Swyx [00:02:01]: And that's the context engine that you guys have?Chai [00:02:04]: Yes.Swyx [00:02:04]: Is that what it's called? Okay.Swyx [00:02:05]: So historically, as I understand it, the company started in 2018. A lot of people would be familiar with the AI voice notes form factor that doctors would be “Well, do you consent to being recorded?” It replaces handwriting and what have you. But it sounds like more recently there's been a big transition in the company. Tell me about the broader transition.From Documentation to Clinical Intelligence: Save Time, Save Money, Save LivesJanie [00:02:26]: So from a transition perspective, we really think about our journey as The first act was: how do we help save time? And that's where a lot of that original product was.Swyx [00:02:37]: By the way, one of those interesting statsSwyx [00:02:39]: On your landing page was, doctors spend time after hours.Janie [00:02:43]: They call it pajama time.Swyx [00:02:44]: Why is that pajama time?Janie [00:02:46]: Doctors after work in their pajamasSwyx [00:02:48]: In their pajamas. OhJanie [00:02:49]: At home are just writing and catching up on their notes every day.Janie [00:02:53]: Some of our favorite customer love stories, we have a Slack channel called Love Stories. We have clinicians telling us, “Abridge has helped us, from retiring early or we're now finally able toJanie [00:03:06]: go home and eat dinner with our kids for the first time.”Chai [00:03:08]: Save the marriage in some cases.Swyx [00:03:10]: One of the quotes was “We're not divorcing anymore.”Swyx [00:03:12]: I'm asking, “Why?”Swyx [00:03:14]: Because they're working too much.Janie [00:03:16]: But, in terms of where we're going and where we're expanding, we really think about our second and third acts around how do we help health systems save and make more money. Health systems are operating with record-low operating margins. It's getting harder and harder to serve patients and they have regulatory, some tailwinds but also a lot of headwinds coming their way and AI is ripe for helping on the saving and make-more-money piece. And then ultimately, how do we help save lives? The fact that our software and our product is open millions of times a week before, during and after a patient walks in the room, gives us massive opportunity with products like clinical decision support, which Chai is building but so many others to improve patient outcomes and probably one of the most important workflows and problems to be going after right now.From Glean to Healthcare: Context Is KingJacob [00:04:04]: One thing that's interesting, Chai, is you came over to Abridge from Glean and clinical decision support, which for our listeners is, in the context of a visit, helping a doctor figure out the right type of care. It's really a search problem in many ways, going through lots of different data sources. Very analogous to your previous role as one of the earliest engineers over at Glean. I'm sure a lot of our listeners are curious what's similar about the problems that you're going after now and what feels different, now that you're in healthcare.Chai [00:04:33]: Very similar. Taking a step back, with every wave, there's a lot of very similar patterns that happen across different products. A lot of social networking products look the same. A lot of credit-based products look the same. And we're seeing that very similar in the agent era with many companies, of course, in Redpoint's portfolio and so forth. And the key insight between both companies is that you have amazing models but context is king. Context is what puts them to work. So I see it in a lot of ways, a lot of similarities in this is a healthcare-coded version of Glean but the differences are really interesting. A couple things that come to mind. First and foremost, the rigor of the setting we're in. The downside risk is extremely high here in healthcare. It can be fatal in some cases. You prescribe something that the patient is allergic to for example. Whereas at Glean, it's “Oh, you got the question wrong.” It wasn't the end of the world in most cases. And so what does that mean? That shapes our evaluation strategy, both offline evaluation, progressive rollout and there's a lot more we could go into there. Second thing that comes to mind is, vertical versus horizontal. In both cases, there's a large variance but when Glean is, it's a much more horizontal company, there's a variance of personas, companies that you're working with. We also have a variance of personas, different types of specialties, different hospital systems. But the variance is a little more narrow. So from a product perspective, you're able to focus far more, especially when you have a maturing technology and you're building new products that never existed before. It lets you go after them much more easily and especially in healthcare where so many problems were solved with labor and process, that it's extremely ripe for AI to keep helping augment and enable. And the final thing that's really interesting, Abridge specifically compared to many other companies in the AI area, is the modality we started with where we're ambient and we're always listening in the background. And many more AI products will go that way but it's how we started. And that's the greatest form of AI we can create, AI that's seamless. You're not looking at your screen. It's always there. It's always helping you out and being proactive. The Jarvis vision that, every hackathon I went to over the past decade, there was always a Jarvis competitor. But Abridge very much started from the opportunity and continues to go that way.Ambient AI and Alert Fatigue: When Should the Product Interrupt?Jacob [00:06:57]: One thing that is super interesting then from a product perspective is you have this always-on seamless in the background and then you have to decide when you break the wall almost and say, “Hey, clinician, you might not have thought about X,” or whatever it is that you want to do. And in healthcare traditionally there's been this idea of alert fatigue and a million pop-ups and then a doctor just ignores all of them. It's probably a pattern that a lot of builders are thinking through now. How do you think about the right way to intervene or to pop up in a doctor visit?Janie [00:07:26]: It's such a good question. Alerts are notorious in healthcare specifically. Over 90% of alerts are ignored. The first and most important thing is context is everything, as Chai alluded to and I also think about how do we go from being reactive alerting to really proactive intelligence at the point at which it matters most. One thing we like to say is we want our product to feel like air conditioning. It should be in the background just making things better and if there is something that has great clinical risk and we're acutely aware that intervening now and not later is incredibly important, we should decide to act. But if you think about proactive versus reactive, instead of alerting a clinician during a visit when they're with their patient having a pretty serious and sensitive conversation, how do we prep a clinician before they walk into the room with that patient? And so historically, clinicians might have to manually go through charts with a patient that they've had over the course of months or years and they'll try to suss out what are the things they should be doing. You can imagine a world with Abridge. We'll summarize all of the most recent context for you, tell you based on the reason for a visit the patient is coming in for the types of things you should be discussing. And so you're going into that conversation prepped rather than walking in cold to that patient visit and then having this product interrupt you five or 10 times throughout the visit. And there might be times where it's really important to interrupt. We have a product called Prior Authorization and so this is when you may go into a doctor's office with knee pain. They'll prescribe you an MRI and so many of us have had this experience before, where in four weeks you'll get a call saying, “Hey, Sean, that MRI that you were prescribed wasn't approved and why don't you come back in? We'll figure it out.” In a world with Abridge, we might choose to quietly but still alert a doctor in that visit. And alert is probably not even the word we would want to use. Before a patient leaves, we would want to tell the doctor, “Hey, Doctor, before Sean leaves, you should ask him, has he had physical therapy and has his pain lasted for more than six weeks? Because the Aetna plan that he's on in California requires six things. We've already confirmed four of them have been met ‘cause we have all the context. But these two last criteria, if you can address with Sean before he leaves the room, we could guarantee that your MRI is approved before you leave.” And so when you think about clinical usefulness, impact to the patient, there are instances in which if we can catch a doctor while the patient is still in the room, as we think about save time, save money, save lives, we get to check all of those boxes. But when doctors have 15 minutes between visits, we have to be really thoughtful about when it matters.Prior Authorization: Reducing Latency in CareChai [00:10:23]: There's this interesting product opportunity AI has is reducing latency in the world. For example, prior authorization is an example of where care gets delayed and so great AI can reduce that. And the problem with alerts before partially is a technical problem: the quality of your alerts really matters. They're going to get ignored if you get alerts that... Similarly in engineering, where they're noisy alerts that you can't act on. But if you can make really high-quality alerts with both the context, as Janie said, and really high-quality models, then you can create a whole other game.Janie [00:10:53]: And I really like that experience because it starts to tease apart, what makes this so hard and unique. One, to make that prior authorization example possible, think about all the data that you need to have. You need to integrate with the electronic health record to know all of the patient context. Do we have access to your previous labs, previous imaging? And then to match you and to know that you're on Aetna, we have to collect all of the different payer policies and they vary by state. Some of these payer policies live on websites. Some of them live in unstructured 50-page PDF files.Jacob [00:11:31]: I thought this episode wasJacob [00:11:31]: To make sure we didn't scare people from healthcare.Janie [00:11:34]: But when you think about the things that make it hard, it also gives you the moat.Janie [00:11:39]: And then the second is the AI and the model quality we need to be able to hang our hat on. And so the bar, similarly when I worked at Opendoor, I worked on pricing models. Every outlier wiped out the margins of 30 and so similarly here in healthcare, the bar for accuracy is so high. And then I'd say the last is workflow is everything. If insurance companies deploy AI, it typically happens too late and this is when you have the notorious comical examples of AI just fighting each other when it's too late. But if we can pull forward the use of both the AI but also the ability to solve problems when the patient's in the room, you can start to collapse what typically takes weeks or months after your visit, ideally down to minutes or real-time. And it's where healthcare is both very difficult but also extremely rewarding if you can crack it.Product Form Factors: Mobile, Desktop, In-Room Devices, and ARSwyx [00:12:36]: Just to get some baseline on the form factors, because I've seen some videos on your website and stuff. You guys talk a lot about ambient AI. Is it primarily on the phone? Is there any other form factor that people get Abridge in? Is there an Abridge room setup where it's always on? I don't know.Jacob [00:12:55]: An Abridge podcast studio.Janie [00:12:58]: Primary form factor is mobile and desktop. UsuallyJanie [00:13:00]: Clinicians are walking in and out of rooms with mobile but at the end of the day, when they're closing out their notes or wanting to prep for the day ahead, they might use desktop. We have been having a lot of really interesting partnership conversations with a lot of these in-room device companies as you think about the power of multimodality and even more data, as you think about all of what is not captured today. It is fascinating to think about, especially even as we go into building and scaling our nursing product. It's one where nurses constantly, as they're walking in to check in on a patient for two minutes or maybe even 30 seconds,Janie [00:13:43]: Starting an Abridge experience is probably going to take longer than the visit. And so what can we do with in-room devices that are always on starts to raise really interesting and fun product questions.Swyx [00:13:54]: I was thinking, the way in tech companies we have all these Google MeetSwyx [00:13:58]: And other things, we might as well set up entire rooms with just Abridge tech.Chai [00:14:02]: Very much. AR glasses and related form factors are also relevant: how do we bring the information to the clinician in real-time without a screen, while still letting them focus on the patient?Swyx [00:14:18]: Do you think they want that? I'm skeptical of AR, but I'm curious what you've tried.Chai [00:14:26]: Admittedly, it's not a near-term product roadmapChai [00:14:29]: By any means. I'm being far-fetched.Jacob [00:14:31]: There's some sick AR stuff for surgeries.Swyx [00:14:33]: Really?Jacob [00:14:33]: When people are trying to visualize, you're about to make an incision but you want to see, what the cut might look or what the body might look like inside and they can layer in imaging.Swyx [00:14:43]: That's cool.Chai [00:14:45]: At some point in the future.Janie [00:14:46]: But there are a lot of our largest customers and at the largest health systems integrating already and so even as we think about building into it, unlocks a lot of product capabilities.Swyx [00:14:57]: And just to establish the terminology. Sorry, and I know I'm asking basic questions somewhat for myself but also for the audience who might beHealth Systems, Buyers, Clinicians, Patients, and PayersSwyx [00:15:05]: Less integrated. When you say health systems, it's like the Johns Hopkins, the Kaiser Permanentes.Janie [00:15:09]: Mayos, the Kaisers of the world.Swyx [00:15:10]: These are your customers, right? And the outcome that you deliver for them is happier doctors, reduced cost of processing, reduced mistakes. It's weird in a sense that I feel like there's also, a secondary customer, the customer of the customer and I don't know if you — do you think about it that way?Janie [00:15:28]: The other interesting and complex part of building product is we have our buyers, who are the chief medical information officersJanie [00:15:39]: The chief financial officers, the CIOs of these large health systems. Our users today are clinicians but if you think about who downstream is impacted, it's patients. And so as we build, with every product in mind, we think about who we're building for, who the secondary user is and what does that mean either in terms of experience, security compliance, ROI that we have to make tangible. And so like you said, time savings is one of them. But for CFOs, they care a lot more than just time savings. We have to show for every dollar you put into Abridge, because you have more compliant documentation or because you have fewer queries coming from your billing team, we save or add real dollars to your bottom line or top line, are things that we're constantly thinking about because of the dynamic across all three sets of users.Chai [00:16:32]: There's a whole other axis too with the payers and pharmaChai [00:16:35]: as well. Connecting all these three big stakeholders in healthcare isSwyx [00:16:39]: Do the payers ever see your data? Sorry, the payers meaning the insurers, right?Chai [00:16:44]: Yes.Swyx [00:16:44]: They also see Abridge data?Chai [00:16:47]: NoSwyx [00:16:47]: Like the direct integration to you guysChai [00:16:48]: They wouldn't see the raw Abridge data but when you're working together on something like prior authorization, whatever information they need, we'd communicate to them.Jacob [00:16:59]: That's cool. I would love to dig into the AI side. You still have a lot of problems on the AI side. And so maybe to start at the highest level, what's one of the hardest problems you have to solve in AI at Abridge today?The Hardest AI Problems: Quality, Latency, and CostChai [00:17:11]: To make things simple, let's take, building off the prior auth example. So one thing Janie talked about is okay, this data is all over the place and there's this combinatorial explosion of procedures, payer policies and even sometimes different health systems. There can be some cross-product of all of these different considerations you have to take into account. But what's really hard about this problem is doing it real-time in the conversation. So, in any AI product, usually the three KPIs you care about are quality, latency and cost. Now, what we're saying is we want you to do this real-time in the conversation, guiding the clinician. How do we do it in a way that does not break the bank? But we're using — But we also need very intelligent models because you're working with this cross-product of data and this, all this context layer as well. So you need high intelligence and high-quality because you don't want the alert fatigue but you also need to be fast and cost-effective. And so that's where a lot of clever engineering goes. It's okay, without getting into all the details here, can you model these policies in some intermediate representation or other things that you can do that can make this problem tractable? And of course, the Pareto frontier is always changing but we are also trying to do this now.Model Strategy: Third-Party Models, Proprietary Data, and Medical ConversationsJacob [00:18:26]: What implications has that had for what you take off-the-shelf and say, “ what? We don't need to be world-class at X. We'll just take this from the model providers or from some infrastructure player,” and what you're “No, this is where we spend most of our time focused on”?Chai [00:18:38]: This is, the fun challenge in AI?Jacob [00:18:42]: It changes every three months? SoChai [00:18:42]: Of course, with the shifting landscape, we try to be extremely thoughtful on predicting the trends of where third-party models are going and where we can uniquely go. And, sometimes when you talk about AI models, we're the models are just going to get infinitely better. But I don't think... It may be in the grandness of time you could say that but, within every month, every quarter, there's specific ways they're getting better. They're training on a lot more, coding data to be better coding agents, for example. And soChai [00:19:14]: We have to think about where are the things that won't — unique data that we're uniquely training on or to step back a little, where is a proprietary model bringing advantage to us is if it can give higher quality or lower cost and latency for similar quality, very similar to many other companies. And when we can do that is when we have proprietary data. So, for example, we have on the order of eighty million or hundreds of millions now getting close to of medical conversations.Jacob [00:19:44]: It's insane.Chai [00:19:45]: This is a unique data set. And this data set, it's very interesting because this data set is effectively a large part of the trace between the patient and the provider. That's where the quote-unquote debugging happens in healthcare. We have these traces at scale, as in as, our CEOs even called it, an exhaust that comes out of our product. And so when you have these traces, that's how you can train better agents on certain use cases, whether it's your transcription diarization use cases or so on or like note generation models and we can do that much cheaper and faster. But we're always also working with these third-party model providers. We closely collaborate with them and that's how we predict where the trends are going. The thing that I think about a lot is that, I know that the model providers are going to train much more on agentic workflows and so forth, so that's great, so that you have a better agentic harness. But the other thing that's interesting is that the model providers, because a large class of the consumer model providers is healthcare queries, that they might, optimize to train a lot of healthcare data to encode the knowledge in its weights. And this is just a great thing for us as well, where the off-the-shelf models can keep bett-getting better at general healthcare information, such that what our strategy is, we have a constellation of models, we can use something for this, that and, we only care about, at the end of the day, the best product experience.EHR as File System: Agentic Workflows and Real-Time InterfacesJacob [00:21:07]: And, you have, overall capabilities improving. I'm curious, as these models get better, is there something you look at and you're “, three months ago, we really couldn't do that but God, the the latest models really allow us to do it”?Chai [00:21:19]: So here's something interesting that I've, been toying with. So all models are... This wasn't super obvious a year ago but now it's become clear and clear that almost every agent is a coding agent underneath the hood? So you give it whatever file system, it can write its own code and so forth. So when you think about within healthcare and the use case that we have, you can think of the EHR effectively like a file system. It's just — it's a storage of all this information. It's a lot of information there that cannot fit into the context window, at least of today's models and you want to use that context effectively for all these product use cases we're talking about. And so if you have better agents that can, manipulate data, read that data, treat it as a file system as we see they're going and we know model companies are investing this way, then that very directly benefits us.Swyx [00:22:09]: Yeah. Okay, cool. Again, just establishing basic things. But we're going back to the model stuff. I'm really interested in double-clicking more on the real-time, element, which is pretty important for both of you. Is it — Is real-time just batches of every one minute, every five minutes? Is that how we do it? Or is there some more native, genuinely real-time in the sense that OpenAI has a real-time API or Gemini has a real-time API?Chai [00:22:35]: Yeah. Yeah. So today it is more on the on the batch basis but there's interestingChai [00:22:41]: Prototypes that we have that we're still not fully, full time, voice in text out or in that sense. But, can you trigger your models, your agents or agentic workflows, depending on the right times in the conversation?Chai [00:22:58]: And so you can imagine, different techniques to bring this latency down and, you want to bring the feedback loop down as much as you can. And so a lot of clever engineering there without fully... Maybe one day we'll do full voice in and text out, train a model to do something like that.Swyx [00:23:15]: You do — People don't want voice in voice out?Chai [00:23:18]: Now we aren't creating experiences that are, during the conversation, inter — It's almost likeSwyx [00:23:25]: Might be too disruptiveChai [00:23:26]: Too disruptive until, who knows, maybe eventually you could have full voice agents once we — the quality and we improve the comfort of the technology. But right now gra — that change is much more gradual and it's more text focus, text out.Janie [00:23:42]: And so much of currently what our product is trying to do is allow a clinician to focus on their patient and maybe at some point but right now patients, clinicians don't want a third voice, at least in a literal voice in that room. And so how do we be there with all the contacts and information ready at hand when there's the right moment?Personalization: Individual Doctors, Specialties, and Health SystemsJacob [00:24:03]: Jenny, one thing I'm curious about is how you think about, personalization in the product. I imagine, every doctor is a special snowflake in their own way, has their own way they like to do things. There are probably a bunch of different approaches you could take to doing that, both within the model layer itself but then also just with clever prompting or engineering. How do youJacob [00:24:20]: Deliver on that?Janie [00:24:21]: It's such a good question. Personalization is massive for us. We think about personalization at three levels. The first is at the individual, the second is at the specialty level and then the third is at the health system or the organization level. To your point, there are a lot of individual preferences. You-When a note is produced, it almost is a reflection that is so deeply personal of a doctor's work and how they give care. And so do they have preferences on things like style? They might want bullets versus paragraphs, really concise versus comprehensive. They also might have phrases that they really like to use or the templates that they want every note to be structured. And, we see it in our feedback all the time. We want two spaces in between sentences or I refuse to use this tool. And so that's something that we've had to build in. And the tricky part is how do you make sure that stylistic preferences don't interrupt accuracy and quality and that's something that we've really had to refine and hone over time. Second is at the specialty level. A cardiologist note or workflow is going to look very different from a dermatologist workflow.Jacob [00:25:32]: I assume cardiology notes are the highest stakes for you guys, given your CEO is a cardiologist.Jacob [00:25:36]: It's “Oh my God, make sure we get this one.”Janie [00:25:37]: Shiv, our CEO, is still a practicing cardiologist. He rounds once a month. And so, first call when we want just quick and easy user feedback too.Janie [00:25:46]: But, specialties require a lot of personalization, both in terms of what does the product look and so we make sure that as new users onboard, we catch that and the product proportionally reflects that. But also on the back end, evals at the specialty level, they are hard-earned to calibrate and get. What does a really great dermatology note look like? What makes it complete? What makes it compliant and billable is very different than a primary care doctor. And so it's not just about what does the product experience look but on the back end tuning and really deepening our understanding for the specialists. What does great output look like? And that's, a problem that we need to calibrate internally, externally, online, offline but, takes lots of cycles but is necessary in a high-stakes environment. And then at the health system level, for products like clinical decision support, you have health systems who've spent years or decades refining their best practices and they want to know, “Hey, we love your clinical decision support product but how do we embed our own hospital guidelines into them to inform clinicians before, during or after a visit what brest — best practices should look like?” And as you think about, deepening moats as well, when health systems, trust us with that data, allow us to productize it and directly into the clinical workflow, makes us a really great partner to health systems who want to build something that truly meets their needs, their practicing guidelines.AI Slop, Memory, and Product Data FlywheelsChai [00:27:23]: And I want to add onto that. The for the clinical documentation problem, it's very similar to AI writing that doesn't feel like your own and then we call that slop. But the way I describe one framing of slop is like AI without context. But we have all that context and both the clinicians, can have it and can guide it. And so part of the other interesting exhaust for us is, memory is, one of these new systems recordsChai [00:27:49]: Almost.Janie [00:27:50]: And we also have all the edits people make on our product and when you think about a data flywheel and how we get better over time becomes really powerful as a mechanism to just going deeper in personalization.Jacob [00:28:04]: It's interesting. I love this idea of working with systems on the guidelines they built up over a long time. I feel like so many of the best AI app companies today are... The question is: How do you take the expertise that a law firm or a bank has built up over many years and then add that as context and also a special sauce over, a an AI tool? And so seems like y'all are really doing that very effectively.Janie [00:28:24]: We're now starting to have our customers ask, “What are other customers doing?”Janie [00:28:28]: “And how are they doing it?”Janie [00:28:30]: And as we think about having visibility across such a large set of care being delivered right now, a really interesting place we could also partner.Swyx [00:28:40]: I'm just curious. I — This may be a nothing question but, how different are health system guidelines from each other? Don't they all converge to the same thing? And if not, where do they differ?Chai [00:28:52]: At a really high level, they're going to talk about very similar things but the difference is probably in some more of the details. “Oh, you should refer to specialists only when XYZ conditions are met,” or so forth and maybe different organizations have different practices and guidelines around that. But high level, talking about similar things but the details are what, of course, that shapes the context and the decisions you make.Swyx [00:29:15]: And this all goes into the context engine and it might affect the notes but maybe not.Chai [00:29:21]: The — For these local pathways, we're definitely thinking about it a little more for our clinical decision support product.Chai [00:29:26]: So yeah.Swyx [00:29:27]: Which is your stuff, yeah.Swyx [00:29:28]: And then the memory which you raised, let's just tell us more about that. What have you tried in memory? What's the structure of the memory? What works? What doesn't work?Chai [00:29:38]: There's, of course, many different ways you could do memory, where it's okay, can you bake it into the model weights or can you do it in some external store? For us, what's interesting is, of course, when you think the models are rapidly changing, whether it's in-house or third-party, baking into the model weights, sometimes you worry that it could be a little throwaway. And so, how do you... You need to find a way that you decompose the problem, the preferences from the underlying models and so forth. The thing we're right now most both that's easiest to start with and we're excited about is having, a separate store for memory, where you have, for example, a memory sub-agent that's, working in the background, figuring out what are the important parts of the clinician's actions that we want to remember for the long term. And then you can also imagine, other things where in the — you have background jobs that are running that are collating these, memories similar to Sleep, of course and what other pattern, patterns products do as well. Learning over all these action, all the action data we have, again, note edits, the conversations they did and the actual transcripts.Evals: LFD, LLM Judges, and Clinical SafetyJacob [00:30:40]: What about evals? How in the world do you... It is such a complex product surface area. We would love to hear you riff on that and also how has that evolved? I'm sure you've gotten better at it, so any learnings along the way.Janie [00:30:50]: From an evals perspective, we, from day one when we build any new product or feature, we think about, what does good look like? And there are table stakes things like clinical safety but then you start to get deeper into what does good quality look like. And when you go into something like our core product, there's stuff like style and completeness and there's things like does this note become something that can be billable, which is very high stakes for a health system. We have a number of ways in which we get confidence for this. We have, internal in-house clinicians who do what we call an LFD process to give us our very first pass at is this or isn't this a good enough output, look at the effing data.Jacob [00:31:41]: LFD?Chai [00:31:42]: That's why I was smiling. I was “Is Janie going to mention what it stands for?”Jacob [00:31:46]: I was not... There's like a million acronyms.Jacob [00:31:48]: How am I supposed to know that I don't? So “Oh yeah, of course, an LFD.”Swyx [00:31:51]: I've never heard of LFDs.Chai [00:31:53]: It's a bridge for sure.Janie [00:31:55]: I got through three days and then I had to ask someone.Janie [00:31:58]: I thought it was just me that didn't knowJanie [00:32:01]: It's our internal process.Swyx [00:32:02]: But look at the data as a meme in ML, ‘cause you tend to not look at it. You just want to look at number go up.Chai [00:32:06]: Exactly.Swyx [00:32:07]: But yes.Janie [00:32:08]: But so, we make sure we look at the data and then as we think about all of the components of good output, we, one, create LLM judges across all of these and we make sure with annotated data and either internal or external evaluators, we feel like these judges are calibrated. And then depending on the stakes, we also work with in-house and third-party evaluators across all of these before we ship any big change. And the goal is, in terms of evolution, how do you go from this process taking months, down to weeks, down to days? Some of it is, a true science and ML problem. A lot of it's also just, hard operational work. Have you planned ahead in terms of what you need? Have you really optimized the capacity that you need across all of the different specialties you need? Have you gotten a really good sense of which third parties are great to work with for what use cases? This takes a lot of domain, expertise and, lots of mistakes and errors in figuring that out. And so as much of it is an ML problem, so much of it has also been operational gains that are hugely important, where domain-specific expertise is everything.Specialty-Level Evaluation and Progressive RolloutsJacob [00:33:23]: But it's funny, ‘cause I feel like people talk about healthcare like it's one giant market and the reality isJacob [00:33:26]: It's, dozens and dozens of sub-markets. And so it feels like in your evals you have to build that up across the board, probably.Swyx [00:33:34]: And is specialization the primary cardinality at... That's the word that comes to mind.Janie [00:33:40]: Sometimes, depending on the product or the use case. And so if we're making a note improvement or feature for a particular specialty, definitely but we have products that are for nurses. We have products that, are really aimed at making the document or the output a lot more billable. And so we'll want to work with coding teams and not necessary clinicians. And so likeJacob [00:34:05]: Coding meaning healthcare coding.Janie [00:34:06]: Yes. Yes.Jacob [00:34:07]: NotChai [00:34:07]: Yes. I see you.Swyx [00:34:07]: Other kinds.Janie [00:34:09]: But is this output proportional to the work that was delivered? Is there sufficient documentation to justify the amount that a health system may end up charging? And so, specialty sometimes but also domain, very different across all of the different products that we're working for. And building out that network is, not easy and is where a lot of our operational investments have gone into.Chai [00:34:35]: And I view a lot of analogies to self-driving cars here, where, part of it is we really want progressive rollout of features to test in the real world is this useful? Is this going to work? One big difference compared to past lives is before I'd build a product, maybe I'd alpha it and then I'd like GA it the next week, ‘cause I'm “Go, move fast, ship,” and whatnot. But the mentality is like you... I want to make contact with the reality as quick as possible but I want a progressive rollout. Because as much as I get as large of an offline eval set, I want the distribution of that to match real-life distribution. And over time, by rolling out early, similar to Waymo has a tagline, “The world's most experienced driver,” another thing that can, at least linearly increase for us is, both the size of our evaluation offline and online, that and it all feeds back.Janie [00:35:25]: Something that's been earned over time, speaking of evolution, is just the trust we've gotten with customers. Historically, a lot of these health systems, when they bring on new vendors, their release cycles are quarters, sometimes twice a year. We've gotten our customers onto monthly release cycles, which is pretty fast for health systems but what is more exciting over the last, call it, few quarters, has been, a subset of our customers have said, “We want to innovate with you. We trust you,” and we have a pretty, decent chunk of our customers who say, “We'll develop with you outside of these monthly release cycles. We have a higher tolerance. We know that the stakes are very high but we want to be the first ones using these products, giving you feedback.” And so for a pretty substantial set of our customers, we've been able to convince them to be able to ship, in this gradual way before GA. Something we talk about a lot internally is, trust is earned in drops, earned in buckets and so we still can't do what I used to do when I worked at Loom. We had 30 million users. I'd just be, rolling out experiments left and. The bar is still quite high for iterative rollout but because of the trust we've earned, we're able to learn at pretty high volume very quickly.Privacy, HIPAA, and De-IdentificationSwyx [00:36:45]: Your scale is still pretty huge.Swyx [00:36:47]: One thing I want to... We were going to go into scale? In a sec. One thing I wanted to call up, follow up on evals, which, again, just coming from a generalist engineer point of view, just thinking through what would people be scared of in doing this, the privacy and HIPAAJacob [00:37:00]: Elements of this. I have zero experience in that. What do you have to do? What is surprisingly not that bad?Chai [00:37:06]: So one thing that's really important here from a compliance perspective is very much that any of the data we use needs to be de-identified, any real-world data we use as a basis of online eval sets we're learning from. And so you have to — And there's, very clear, government guidelines, what counts as PHI. And so we've even have built models that can take, for example, a clinical transcript and remove all the key PHI indicators and so you have a scrubbed/de-identified version. And then once you... And so one thing that's important is first you've got to get confidence in that model in the first place? And prove that out. Because, now you have, multiple probabilistic systems on top of each other.Chai [00:37:46]: But once you have that, then you can train on it use it for evaluation and so forth, provided one of the cool things also that you can do from a business side is the right data contracting as well with your partners.Jacob [00:37:57]: Is the anonymization one way? Once it's done, you cannot undo it? Or is there someoneChai [00:38:01]: YesJacob [00:38:02]: Who holds the master key that can... Yeah, okay. So it's one way.Chai [00:38:05]: It's one way. Yeah.Jacob [00:38:06]: That's how it works. I just wanted to... Because, there's a lot of this, learning from feedback and everything that, you would want to debug more but you can't because you just physically don't allow yourself to.Janie [00:38:17]: Some of it's also written in our customer contracts in terms of who can or can't access PHI data, how long do we retain it,Jacob [00:38:27]: Very goodJanie [00:38:27]: Before it gets de-identified. And so we have a pretty high bar for who can access that PHI data, just to make sure that we always respect our customer data and privacy. But that's something that we partner with our customers on too, to make sure that as we want full, as close to precision as possible in that qualityJanie [00:38:48]: We can still use it.Jacob [00:38:50]: But it'll be fascinating to see how that space evolves? Because you think about, I used to work at a company that, did a lot of healthcare data in the cancer space and if you asked, the average cancer patient, “Hey, do you want people, do you want other patients to be able to learn-”Chai [00:39:03]: Take it.Jacob [00:39:03]: “... Learn from your experience?”Chai [00:39:04]: Take it all.Jacob [00:39:05]: They're “Please.”Jacob [00:39:06]: “I'd love, nothing more than for other people to be able to learn fromJacob [00:39:10]: The experience that I had.” And so in the past it was a lot harder to do that learning. But with this technology, that might really be practical and so it'll be fascinating to see how that continues to evolve.Chai [00:39:21]: There's so much in our data set of 100 million conversations.Chai [00:39:26]: You can imagine things like insights that you can give to the clinician. How could you, oh, how could you have reacted to this? In coaching or insights around, which treatments are effective or, like... Because you have this, again, this data source that was never captured before but that's, where, intuition or experience is created from, going back to this idea that the conversation is the agent of truth.Operating at Scale: Reliability, Cost, and Token EfficiencyJacob [00:39:46]: Back to the 100 million conversations, I feel like you have this insane scale that maybe only a few other AI app companies have and everyone else dreams of. So not everyone has had to confront this yet but maybe just talk about some of the challenges of operating at that scale and what, our listeners have to look forward to if they ever get to this level of scale.Chai [00:40:05]: At large and larger in scale, so of course there's a general, infrastructure reliability. When you... In any given startup, you're building the plane while it's flying. So there's some notion of that. But what gets interesting on the AI and ML side for sure is this, as you get at more and more scale, so one, you have the data to first and foremost do this. But, you start thinking about costs or infrastructure in a whole different way at scale versus, a prototype.Chai [00:40:34]: You can use the most expensive model, you can burn as many tokens as you want but when you're doing 100 million conversationsJacob [00:40:41]: Token max on leaderboards are less upsetting than that context.Chai [00:40:45]: . When you're doing that and so that comes for we have the data and we also have the team that's able to post-train based on this and you can optimize for efficiency, especially in areas where you believe that maybe a lot of the quality headroom is less so and you don't expect the other off-the-shelf models to go that way, such that you want to do, efficiency maximization, in terms of compute and tokens.Jacob [00:41:08]: I feel like you guys live in the future in some way where most use cases today are really just in use case discovery mode, where it's “God, I really hope I can find something that can get to scale,” and so you're always going to use the most powerful model. And then the few things that do get to this level of scale, you start to do those optimizations.Chai [00:41:22]: It's a natural trajectory where it's like zero-to-one, we're not talking about any of these optimizations.Chai [00:41:26]: But when maybe we're in the one-to-100 or so forth, then we're in optimization mode and, what works out really well is you've got all this data from zero-to-one that lets you do this.What Comes Next: The Conversation as the Shared Healthcare PlatformJacob [00:41:36]: That's fascinating. I feel like one thing that's so interesting about the Abridge footprint is that you're in the doctor-patient visit in real-time. I always like to say, there's like probably 50 years' worth of product you could build on top of that. What gets each of you, I don't know, what are you most excited about building, either in the short term or medium term or even, long down the line?Janie [00:41:53]: Something that I get really excited about is that the same conversation can serve so many stakeholders. If you think about the conversation, a doctor needs to know what is the documentation, how do I make sure that this fully represent the care I gave? A patient needs to know, “What the heck just happened? This was really overwhelming. What are my next steps?” A payer needs to know, was this the proper and appropriate care given? A pharma company might want to know why isn't this drug being properly used or is there a good candidate for this clinical trial that I'm about to run? And where I get excited is that our product and our platform and our infrastructure can be the same product across all of those things and start to what's today, separate, very expensive, complex systems that serve each one of these stakeholders in very different ways, start to collapse all of that into a singular platform that enables not just more efficiency across the board but also better outcomes for everyone. And, all of us experience healthcare in probably very painful ways and knowing that there is a world in which we can simplify a lot is really exciting to me and it all starts with the conversation.Chai [00:43:15]: It's interesting. Of it very similar to going back to the KPIs that any AI product cares about. How do you increase quality of care? How do you reduce latency to care? And how do you reduce costs? Which is a huge, in healthcareJacob [00:43:28]: They call it the triple aim in healthcare.Chai [00:43:30]: But very similar to building AI products and the thing that really excites me is when we talk about that latency piece, we talked about one example earlier of prior authorization, can you reduce the latency to care? But you can imagine so much more. Oh, as soon as the lab value gets updated, do you have like a background agent that, kicks off and uses all the context to be “Oh, hey, the patient should do this next,” for example. And of flagging that to the clinician who's always in the loop but reducing that latency, to care. And then you can imagine this is much further down the road but it's like even connecting that to the direct patient and the consumer. And so how can you, how can you build a bridge to all of these things?EHR Partnerships and the Clinical Intelligence LayerJacob [00:44:10]: Very cool. The connections piece is just an ever-growing thing. And one of the key partners is the EHR and I wonder what that relationship is like. Will they, look at this as, something that is valuable enough that they want to own someday?Janie [00:44:29]: Our partnerships with the EHR is, we know that we have to be extremely close partners with all the EHRs who we partner with. Being able to not only pull and push all of the data into the right places is, not only table stakes, if we can't do that, health systems don't want to use us. The second and the reality of today is clinicians spend a lot of their days in the EHR. So much of what allowed us to win in the largest health systems was pretty direct and, very close partnerships with some of the largest electronic health records that allowed us to pull and push data with APIs that weren't ready out of the box. And clinicians want to save clicks. Anytime we introduce a new product that, adds two clicks for them in their day, they're “We're not going to use it.”Janie [00:45:21]: They have 15-minute back-to-back appointments with their patients. They're spending, hours during pajama time doing documentation. Every second and every minute counts and so we really think about being deeply integrated into the EHR as also table stakes to getting real usage and adoption. And anything that we build or introduce, we really talk about earn the right internally a lot, which is we have to provide so much value or save so much time that people will use us. But those are the two things that are close to us, is we know that the product won't be used unless it is deeply interoperable.Chai [00:46:01]: And strategically, to your point, it's like what does EHR want to own versus us? EHRs are really focused on the clinical workflows and so forth but some of the things that we're talking about here, I do these traditionally are outside of the domain where it's oh, connecting pairs and providers together with provider policies or the clinical trial matching, as Janie brought up. And so these are, entirely — we position ourselves as building this entirely new intelligence, clinical intelligence layer across, again, providers, pharma and, payers.Chai [00:46:33]: And so that's a it's a whole different ballgame that we try to playChai [00:46:36]: In combination with them.Jacob [00:46:37]: But it's like a different layer of scope.Healthcare AI Regulation, Technical Depth, and What Changed Their MindsJacob [00:46:39]: I'm curious, you are both relatively newcomers to healthcare. People have these, there's lots of futuristic healthcare AI takes of “Oh, everything will look different.”, now that you've been in healthcare for a bit, you live at the edge of AI, what have you, changed your mind on around this, as you think about what healthcare looks like in ten, 20 years? Any updates to your mental model from the time being close to the problems?Chai [00:47:02]: One thing that IChai [00:47:04]: Was hesitant about before and it's a common thing when I'm trying to recruit engineers that people ask me around, is definitely oh, healthcare, heavily regulated space. And it is, rightfully so. You want to keep, the patients at the end of the day safe. But one of the interesting things that, is a that surprised me how much it is coming to the company is there's a lot of really favorable regulatory tailwinds as well. Where you think about, government really wants interoperability between all these systems that we talked about and so agents can access this information. The government just in January, the FDA released updated guidance on clinical decision support, what I work on in such a way that they used to have guidance from like 2022 that required you to have, mention all these options and do all these other things but it's a very forward and forward-looking way. And so for me, what's been really cool to work on is this, there's this very special moment both in AI in general, we all know that but there's a special moment also regulatory in healthcare as well.Janie [00:48:05]: One thing I would call out is for the very reasons things are higher stakes or, potentially considered more difficult in healthcare, it's where some of the hardest AI problems will get solved first, just because the bar is so high. When I first joined, I was “Oh, this is where we'll be on the tail end of where, all of the AI innovation will be able to be applied.” But when you think about, zero error evals or multi-step workflows that have really low tolerance, a lot of the innovation will happen here just because we have to or else we can't ship.Jacob [00:48:42]: ‘Cause like in other domains, you'd much rather just solve the 80%-is-good-enough problems firstJanie [00:48:46]: 80/20 doesn't work hereChai [00:48:48]: And building off that, traditionally, there was a bit of stigma that, oh, healthcare companies are not that interesting from a technical perspective or I've seen that or faced that myself. But these are really hard and fun problems from a pure technical perspective beyond just the impact. How do you bring the latency of this thing down and make it really high-quality?Reducing Latency: Clinical Workflows, Agents, and Implementation RealityJacob [00:49:07]: How do you bring the latency of things down?Chai [00:49:10]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So okay, let's answer the latency question. And maybe hopefully not too redundant with some of the things I've said earlier but some part of it is with any latency, you have to like what is, what is really your bottleneck. In a lot of workflows, it's sometimes it's the model itself. And so that's where like our data flywheel, our post-training team and so forth come in so that can you make the models far more efficient. So that's one aspect of latency. But there's whole other aspects of latency where it's okay, on top of that, if you use a constellation of different models, can you use — can you first use like a — it's like thinking fast and slow. Can you use a cheap, fast model that triages and hands it off to a larger model where you get more intelligence and so forth and so all theseChai [00:49:56]: Clever tricks to make it work.Chai [00:49:58]: And by the way, we are totally — we also realize that the parameter frontier is changing and so these tricks will — may not get us to where we want to be in five years but we need to if we want to build a useful product right now.Jacob [00:50:11]: Should we go to the quick-fire or you want to ask more about Abridge? We can stuff everything that's not Abridge into the quick-fireSwyx [00:50:16]: I don't mind. I was — I feel like Janie was on the topic of more long tail stuff, which isSwyx [00:50:21]: Not the eighty/twenty thing and that really matters. And I'll —, if you have any tips or cool stories or just general approaches that have worked for you that's interesting to dig into.Janie [00:50:32]: One of them is even just how we staff our teams looks different than a traditional software engineering team, I'd say.Swyx [00:50:40]: Let's go.Clinician Scientists, Edge Cases, and Evals at ScaleJanie [00:50:41]: We have a bunch of folks with different roles who are clinicians and so we have this role called the clinician scientist and I heard one of our leaders refer to them as mutants recently. But they are people who've had clinical backgrounds, so MDs typically, who are also deeply technical, somewhere, on the spectrum of like a full stack engineer all the way to like extremely scrappy prompter. But having each of these people embedded within our teams instantly raises the bar for everything that we build because not only are they determining, is this product clinically useful but they're deeply embedded in our whole evals process. And so when we talk about LFDs, when we talk about what is our actual evaluation criteria, you don't want Chai or me creating what those are because we don't have clinical background. But is probably unique to Abridge but has been game changing. And when you think about where the puck is going, you have people build with clinical backgrounds who are technical and where AI tools are going, they just becomeJanie [00:51:53]: More and more, critical and like the killers of the team. And so that's one. And then the second is just the scale at which we do evals to catch that long tail up front before anything ever gets into production is something that we've pretty much like really started to fine-tune, both from a scale but when do we know we need to get several hundred versus several thousand offline responses, what helps us make that quick decision and make this less of an art and as much of a science as possible. But that's also been something we've had to tune over time.Swyx [00:52:27]: And you have partners who opted in to give you those evals.Janie [00:52:31]: So we work either internally or with third-party for offline evals and then we have customers who also agree to give us, whether it's like thumbs up, thumbs down to like choose this or that, a lot of data to get us to what is as close to fully confident as possible.Swyx [00:52:51]: The term that comes to mind isSwyx [00:52:53]: Like active learning on things where you're weak. I feel like it's a lost artSwyx [00:52:58]: Is a lot of the polish that comes into doing something like this.Janie [00:53:02]: Really.Chai [00:53:03]: Hundred percent.Lessons from Glean: Technical Foundations and AI App InfrastructureJacob [00:53:04]: Maybe, on a totally unrelated note, Chai, you had a very, storied run at Glean b

Income investing has never offered more tools — covered call ETFs, buffer strategies, active fixed income, multi-asset funds — and yet most advisors are still building portfolios the way they did five years ago. So what's actually happening on the ground? In this episode of Insight Is Capital, host Pierre Daillie sits down with Jillian DelSignore, VP and Head of Investor Distribution & Insights at Nasdaq Indexes, who brings something rare to the table: real behavioral data. Her team surveys hundreds of financial advisors every year, runs Nasdaq's global Advisor Council, and sits at the intersection of index innovation, ETF distribution, and the voice of the investor. What the data is showing right now is striking — a fundamental shift from total return thinking toward paycheque replacement investing, accelerating ETF adoption, and a quiet revolution in how options-based income strategies are reshaping portfolio construction. Whether you're an advisor benchmarking your own approach or an investor curious about how your portfolio is being built, this conversation delivers a clear, data-driven picture of where income investing is heading.Chapters00:00 — Introduction: Why income investing is being rebuilt from the ground up02:02 — Jillian's 26-year career arc: Federated, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan ETF, and Nasdaq03:11 — How Nasdaq's global distribution team works with advisors and ETF issuers06:44 — Nasdaq Dorsey Wright: Momentum investing, point & figure charting, and the advisor research portal09:55 — The Advisor Survey: What the data from 2023 to 2025 actually shows10:49 — The big shift: 60% of advisors now allocating 20–40% of portfolios to income — up 52% since 202312:05 — Active and passive fixed income ETF adoption is accelerating — and why active is winning in bonds13:27 — 600 new derivative ETF launches: Covered calls, buffers, and the rise of auto callables14:43 — Defined outcome strategies: The tip of the spear in income innovation15:25 — What drove the shift from total return to paycheck replacement investing18:39 — "I can't eat total return": The behavioral finance case for monthly income20:09 — The hidden benefit of paycheck investing: keeping clients invested through volatility21:59 — Sequence of returns risk and how income strategies reduce the pressure to sell22:48 — Why advisors still under-use these tools — and the education gap holding them back25:34 — The hockey stick: How covered call ETFs are finally going mainstream27:15 — The covered call ETF on-ramp in Canada and the long road to advisor adoption28:55 — Auto callables: The next frontier and why compliance is the last hurdle29:41 — From income-only buckets to core portfolio allocations — the model is changing31:53 — Why compliance departments and advisors both have to get on board — and how it's happening32:35 — What advisors actually want: fewer products, more partners, and turnkey support35:05 — The model portfolio revolution: Advisors want to be relationship managers, not portfolio managers37:50 — How the specialist wholesaling model has fundamentally changed ETF distribution38:37 — The rise of CFAs and CFPs in the field: Fiduciary support is now table stakes40:25 — Closing reflections: Why there has never been a better time to be a financial advisor #IncomeInvesting #CoveredCallETF #BufferETF #ETFInvesting #FinancialAdvisor #PortfolioConstruction #ActiveETF #NasdaqIndex #DefinedOutcome #PaycheckReplacement #RetirementIncome #BehavioralFinance #ETFStrategy #WealthManagement #FixedIncome #DorseyWright #MomentumInvesting #SequenceOfReturns #AdvisorETF #InsightIsCapital #InvestmentPodcast #FinancialPlanning #ETFEducation #RetirementPlanning #IncomePodcast

Is the IRS living in your head rent-free? Stan the Annuity Man breaks down why tax obsession might be costing you more joy than dollars and what to focus on instead. In this episode, The Annuity Man discussed:  Obsession with taxes and IRS rules Future tax rates, national debt, and policy uncertainty Roth conversions, rule changes, and break-even analysis QLACs, annuities, and tax-related product decisions Scars of scarcity, spending in retirement, and enjoying life now   Key Takeaways:  Letting tax fears dictate every financial and lifestyle decision can rob you of the very life you saved and invested for. Tax rates are likely to rise over time, and no individual can control that reality—what you can control is how you structure guarantees and how fully you live your life. Converting to Roths or buying tax-favored products without running the real break-even numbers is a mistake; decisions should be grounded in math, not fear. Many people carry "scars of scarcity," continuing to live like they're broke long after they've financially "won the game," and their spouses or families may be quietly suffering for it. True tax planning should come from qualified professionals like CPAs, CFPs, or tax attorneys, not from product salespeople stretching beyond their legal and professional lane.   "Don't let the IRS live in your head rent-free." —  Stan The Annuity Man   Connect with The Annuity Man:  Website: http://theannuityman.com/  Email: Stan@TheAnnuityMan.com  Book: Owner's Manuals: https://www.stantheannuityman.com/how-do-annuities-work YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCXKKxvVslbeGAlEc5sra2g  Get a Quote Today: https://www.stantheannuityman.com/annuity-calculator!

529 plans keep evolving, and the latest rule changes could impact how you save and spend for education. In this episode of the Wise Money Show, we answer listener questions about new 529 plan flexibility, including K-12 usage and the 529-to-Roth opportunity. We also tackle a common retirement challenge of how to buy or build a new home before selling your current one. Plus, we share what to look for when choosing a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ and whether location really matters.  Season 11, Episode 35 Download our FREE 5-Factor Retirement guide: https://wisemoneyguides.com/    Schedule a meeting with one of our CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNERS™: https://www.korhorn.com/schedule-a-call/  or call 574-247-5898.   Subscribe on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/c/WiseMoneyShow Listen on podcast: https://pod.link/1040619718   Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/_Rk8Bv5knwI  Submit a question for the show: https://www.korhorn.com/ask-a-question/   Read the Wise Money Blog: https://www.korhorn.com/wise-money-blog/    Connect with us: Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/WiseMoneyShow  Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/wisemoneyshow/    Kevin Korhorn, CFP® offers securities through Silver Oak Securities, Inc., Member FINRA/SIPC. Kevin offers advisory services through KFG Wealth Management, LLC dba Korhorn Financial Group. KFG Wealth Management, LLC dba Korhorn Financial Group and Silver Oak Securities, Inc. are not affiliated. Mike Bernard, CFP® and Joshua Gregory, CFP® offer advisory services through KFG Wealth Management, LLC dba Korhorn Financial Group. This information is for general financial education and is not intended to provide specific investment advice or recommendations. All investing and investment strategies involve risk, including the potential loss of principal. Asset allocation & diversification do not ensure a profit or prevent a loss in a declining market. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Certified Financial Planner Board of Standards Center for Financial Planning, Inc. owns and licenses the certification marks CFP®, CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ and CFP® (with plaque design) in the United States to Certified Financial Planner Board of Standards, Inc., which authorizes individuals who successfully complete the organization's initial and ongoing certification requirements to use the certification marks.

Most people don't start thinking seriously about retirement until their forties. If that's you, the good news is you're not behind. You're normal. And this week three CFPs, Jackie Cummings Koski, Roger Whitney, and OG break down exactly what to do, in what order, starting right now. In this episode: Why panic is the enemy of a good retirement plan, the first place your money should go before anything else, why your savings rate matters more than finding the perfect investment, and the one investing mistake people make when they feel behind. Biggest takeaways: Give yourself grace first. This stuff isn't taught in school. The two years Jackie spent just processing her situation before taking action weren't wasted. That clarity is what made everything else stick. Increase your savings rate by 1% every six months. Going from 3% to 13% over five years feels like a non-event the entire time. Automation makes it invisible. Simple beats clever. Index funds, low cost, diversified, and boring. When you feel behind, the temptation is to swing for the fences. That's exactly when boring saves you. Real estate and dividend strategies are tactics. Tactics come after you have a strategy. For a 40-year-old starting from zero, the strategy is build the habit and save more. Resources mentioned: Jackie Cummings Koski's book Fire for Dummies and podcast Catching Up to FI at catchinguptofi.com Roger Whitney's Retirement Answer Man podcast at rogerwhitney.com The Stacking Benjamins scorecard: stackingbenjamins.com/scorecard The Vault: stackingbenjamins.com/vault FULL SHOW NOTES: https://stackingbenjamins.com/how-to-start-saving-for-retirement-at-40-1827 Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.StackingBenjamins.com/201 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Most people don't start thinking seriously about retirement until their forties. If that's you, the good news is you're not behind. You're normal. And this week three CFPs, Jackie Cummings Koski, Roger Whitney, and OG break down exactly what to do, in what order, starting right now.In this episode:Why panic is the enemy of a good retirement plan, the first place your money should go before anything else, why your savings rate matters more than finding the perfect investment, and the one investing mistake people make when they feel behind.Biggest takeaways:Give yourself grace first. This stuff isn't taught in school. The two years Jackie spent just processing her situation before taking action weren't wasted. That clarity is what made everything else stick.Increase your savings rate by 1% every six months. Going from 3% to 13% over five years feels like a non-event the entire time. Automation makes it invisible.Simple beats clever. Index funds, low cost, diversified, and boring. When you feel behind, the temptation is to swing for the fences. That's exactly when boring saves you.Real estate and dividend strategies are tactics. Tactics come after you have a strategy. For a 40-year-old starting from zero, the strategy is build the habit and save more.Resources mentioned:Jackie Cummings Koski's book Fire for Dummies and podcast Catching Up to FI at catchinguptofi.com Roger Whitney's Retirement Answer Man podcast at rogerwhitney.com The Stacking Benjamins scorecard: stackingbenjamins.com/scorecard The Vault: stackingbenjamins.com/vaultFULL SHOW NOTES: https://stackingbenjamins.com/how-to-start-saving-for-retirement-at-40-1827Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.StackingBenjamins.com/201See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Tara, Caroline, and Allison welcome longtime friend and entrepreneur Lacy Garcia, who discusses her unexpected path from education and marketing to becoming a financial advisor, primary breadwinner, and then a divorced single mom who built Trust Willow to center women in financial planning. Garcia explains that many smart, successful women don't know basic household financial details like mortgage costs, bank balances, or even their spouse's income, and argues the shame around money needs to end. Trust Willow offers a free concierge matching service that vets and trains advisors (including CFPs and divorce financial analysts) and also matches for personality fit using factors like Myers-Briggs, hobbies, birth order, and astrological sign. She shares practical tips: know what your life costs, ensure access to your own money, and audit credit card subscriptions to stop wasting cash. Visit https://www.trustwillow.com/ Email Lacy at lacy@trustwillow.com Topics 00:34 Meet Guest Lacy Garcia 02:27 Lacey's Career Pivot 04:21 Why Women Feel Unprepared 05:27 What Willow Actually Does 06:49 Women Supporting Women 08:08 Women's Wealth Trends 09:44 No Shame Money Questions 11:09 How Trust Willow Works 11:59 Free Matching and Vetting 13:21 Three Money Tips Today 15:31 Tease Beauty Routine Next

Preston Gee CFP® and Jim Pilat CFP® of Peak Wealth walk through the 2026 Gee Financial Plan in this annual transparency episode. See how our advisors approach real life personal finances while working with clients every day. In this episode, Preston shares how he and his wife approach paying down debt building an emergency fund and thinking about risk tolerance as a young married couple. Simple practical strategies you can apply to your own financial plan. — ✅ Apply For A Free Retirement Planning Session ✅ peakwm.com/start-here ------------------------------ Peak Wealth Management is a financial planning and wealth management firm in Plymouth, MI. We believe by providing education and guidance, we inspire our clients to make great decisions so they can Retire With Peace of Mind. Stay Connected With Us: Podbean: https://findingtruewealth.podbean.com/ YouTube: / https://www.youtube.com/@peakwealthmgmt Apple: rb.gy/1jqp6 (Trust the Plan Podcast) Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PeakWealthManagement/ X: https://x.com/nhopwood1 https://www.peakwm.com/ 

Drew Clark, President and CEO of Summit Royalties Ltd. (TSX.V: SUM) (OTCQB: SUMMF), joins me to outline the transformational acquisition of Star Royalties and recent acquisition of a 1% NSR on the Saddle North Project, taking their portfolio up to 50 royalty partner projects, across 3 core jurisdictions being Canada, USA, and Australia; mostly focused on gold and silver.  Summit is a relatively new company having just gone public in the 2nd half of last year, but is now the fastest growing company in the precious metals royalty sector.    On March 16, 2026, Summit Royalties announced that they have entered into an arrangement agreement pursuant to which, Summit has agreed to acquire all of the issued and outstanding common shares and Star Royalties Ltd. (TSXV: STRR, OTCQX: STRFF).   Transaction Highlights and Strategic Rationale Immediate Scale & Quality 50 royalties and streams ~63% of net asset value ("NAV") from assets in production or with committed timelines to production; and Diversified revenue base with 4 assets currently in production, expected to increase to 6 by 2027. Value accretive transaction on both a NAV per share and 2027E CFPS basis; Significantly improved near-term cash flow profile with the addition of Copperstone and immediate revenue from Keysbrook; Addition of a high-quality gold stream on Copperstone that is expected to have significant expansion and exploration upside, with multiple near-term catalysts expected throughout 2026 including a PFS (April 2026), a maiden open-pit resource (H2 2026), and the anticipated commencement of construction later in the year; and Enhanced Tier-1 jurisdictional exposure.   Industry-Leading GEOs Growth ~47% GEOs CAGR expected over the next 3 years, which would be the highest among junior royalty and streaming companies based on analyst consensus estimates; Visibility driven by existing development assets and growth from material assets with committed timelines to production; and Additional upside from identified pipeline and from disciplined future acquisitions.   Accretive & Cash Flow Enhancing ~US$2M of identified annual cost synergies through the elimination of duplicate public company costs, personnel changes, and operational changes; Copperstone and Pitangui expected to be in production by 2027, increasing estimated 2027 revenue to over US$15M at consensus metal prices; and Small, agile team with minimal G&A funnels cash flow back into the business. Meaningful Re-Rate Potential ~C$184M expected pro forma fully-diluted in-the-money market capitalization; Improved capital markets presence and trading liquidity, with supportive shareholder base; and Pro forma Summit valued at a significant discount to peers on Price/NAV and Price/2027E cash flow per share ("CFPS") basis.   The Corporation intends to become the next mid-tier streaming and royalty company through future actionable and accretive acquisitions to increase production and cash flow growth. The Corporation currently has no debt and sufficient cash on-hand for use in future acquisitions.   Drew takes us through the growth on tap for 2026 and beyond at their now 4 producing royalties and streams.   Madsen – 1% NSR Royalty focused on gold and operated by West Red Lake Gold Mines in Ontario, Canada Bomboré – 50% Silver Stream; operated by Orezone in Burkina Faso Zancudo – 0.5% NSR Royalty; operated by Denarius Metals in Colombia Keysbrook – 2% minerals royalty on a producing mineral sands mine in Western Australia   Additionally, they will retain exposure to the Green Star Royalties Ltd. joint venture between Star Royalties Ltd. (TSXV: STRR, OTCQX: STRFF), Agnico Eagle Mines Limited (TSX, NYSE: AEM) and Cenovus Energy Inc. (TSX, NYSE: CVE) that invests into North American carbon offset projects in nature-based solutions, renewable energies, as well as other green technologies.   Next we reviewed their key development royalties:   Pitangu – $80/oz until 250 Koz produced – 1.5% NSR thereafter; operated by Jaguar Mining in Brazil and slated to go into production in 2027. AurMac – 0.5% – 2.0% NSR Royalty Coverage; operated by Banyan Gold in the Yukon, Canada On March 12, 2026, Summit Royalties Ltd. announced that it has entered into an agreement to acquire a 1.0% net smelter return ("NSR") royalty on the Saddle North Deposit, owned by Newmont Corporation, for consideration of C$5 million paid in shares of Summit.     If you have any follow up questions for Drew about Summit Royalties, then please email them into me at Shad@kereport.com.   Click here to follow the latest news from Summit Royalties     For more market commentary & interview summaries, subscribe to our Substacks:   The KE Report: https://kereport.substack.com/ Shad's resource market commentary: https://excelsiorprosperity.substack.com/     Investment disclaimer: This content is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute investment advice, an offer, or a solicitation to buy or sell any security. Investing in equities and commodities involves risk, including the possible loss of principal. Do your own research and consult a licensed financial advisor before making any investment decisions. Guests and hosts may own shares in companies mentioned.  

Thank you to the folks at Sustain for providing the hosting account for CHAOSScast! CHAOSScast – Episode 130 In this CHAOSScast episode, host introduces Rowland Mosbergen, a research software engineer at Australia's WEHI, and discusses experiences in CHAOSS Asia and open source community connections. Rowland compares research labs to startups and explains that CHAOSS Asia's regular online meetings help him engage with the broader open source ecosystem despite not traveling to conferences. They mention tools like the OSC DB directory for finding communities and discuss how Chaos Asia helps share events and CFPs. Rowland describes his “practical diversity and inclusion” approach: embedding inclusion into processes by centering marginalized people, sharing power, creating safe spaces, and offering online, non-exploitative open source internships that assess achievement relative to opportunity. He also describes organizing Research Software Asia Australia (RSAA 26) and supporting new Research Software Africa and Latino America conferences through shared documentation and a large, flexible volunteer committee to prevent burnout. They close with personal value-adds: Rowland's family time and the host's move to Bangkok. 00:00 Welcome to CHAOSScast 00:21 Meet Rowland 01:41 Startups and Research Parallels 03:04 Why CHAOSS Asia Matters 03:40 Finding CHAOSS Asia 07:03 Mapping Asian Communities 09:38 Practical DEI in Action 13:31 Internships as Micro PhDs 16:27 Conferences and Global Expansion 20:17 Building Inclusive Frameworks 25:09 Value Adds 28:03 Wrap Up and Call to Action Panelists: Leon Nunes Guests Rowland Mosbergen Links CHAOSS CHAOSS Project X CHAOSScast Podcast CHAOSS YouTube CHAOSS Slack podcast@chaoss.community https://www.wehi.edu.au/ https://www.solo.io/ [https://equersa.org/]([https://equersa.org/) - Research software Africa and Latin America https://developers.events/#/2026/calendar - OSCDB https://chaoss.github.io/oscdb/ https://www.practicaldiversity.org/Special Guest: Rowland Mosbergen.

The Future of Faith-Based Financial Advice: Rob West on Kingdom Advisors, Biblical Stewardship, and the $22 Trillion Opportunity Host John Coleman sits down with Rob West, CEO of Kingdom Advisors and host of the nationally syndicated Faith-Fi radio program, to explore how biblically-wise financial advice has moved from the fringes to the forefront of Wall Street—and what that means for the trillions of dollars in Christian hands today. From a founding cohort of 16 advisors to a network of 4,000, Kingdom Advisors is building an entire industry where faith and finance fully integrate. Rob shares the trends, data, and vision that make this one of the most exciting moments in the history of Christian investing. Key Topics: How Kingdom Advisors grew from 16 CFPs to 4,000 advisors and the Certified Kingdom Advisor (CKA) designation Why faith-based investing demand jumped from 20% to 50% of CKA searches in a single year—and what that signals for the market The $22 trillion gap: Christians hold $22T in public markets but only ~$170B is in faith-based investments AI, robo-advice, and the irreplaceable role of the values-based financial advisor How collaborative giving funds and strategic generosity are the next frontier for Kingdom capital The great wealth transfer and preparing the next generation of stewards Why 11 Christian universities are now training the next wave of Kingdom Advisors Notable Quotes: "There's 22 trillion in the hands of Christians in the public markets today. And we've got, best case, 170 billion in faith-based investments in public market offerings. So the need and the opportunity is massive." – Rob West "When you go into a values conversation, AI can't replicate that." – Rob West "When we see money as a tool to advance God's kingdom—yes to enjoy, yes to provide—but to give generously, to invest strategically… we're just gonna help God's people experience kingdom impact in a way perhaps they never have considered." – Rob West

Did you know your military pension is worth over $1 million? Most service members approaching retirement don't realize they're already work optional - and that changes everything about the decisions you should be making right now. In this episode, retired Marine and CFP Omen Quelvog reveals why the highest-paid contractor job might be the worst choice for your future, how to discover what you're actually curious about (not just good at), and why you need to attend TAP twice. Plus: the new TSP Roth conversion opportunity that could save you hundreds of thousands in taxes. Key Topics Covered Transition Planning Financial Strategy TSP Roth Conversions Career & Lifestyle Finding Financial Help Resources & Links Military Financial Advisors Association (MFAA) - Fee-only CFPs with military background https://militaryfinancialadvisors.org/ Fee-Only Network - Directory of fee-only advisors https://www.feeonlynetwork.com/ Nectarine - Book CFP consultations https://www.hellonectarine.com/ TSP Roth Conversion Calculator https://www.tsp.gov/ Connect with Omen: Fororer Wealth Management - Omen's fee-only financial planning practice https://4myndr.com/ The Fiscal Foxhole Podcast - Omen Quelvog & Rob Moore https://fiscalfoxhole.com/   Spencer and Jamie offer one-on-one Military Money Mentor sessions. Get your personal military money and personal finance questions answered in a confidential coaching call. militarymoneymanual.com/mentor Over 20,000 military servicemembers and military spouses have graduated from the 100% free course available at militarymoneymanual.com/umc3 In the Ultimate Military Credit Cards Course, you can learn how to apply for the most premium credit cards and get special military protections, such as waived annual fees, on elite cards like The Platinum Card® from American Express and the Chase Sapphire Reserve® Card. https://militarymoneymanual.com/amex-platinum-military/ https://militarymoneymanual.com/chase-sapphire-reserve-military/ Learn how active duty military, military spouses, and Guard and Reserves on 30+ day active orders can get your annual fees waived on premium credit cards in the Ultimate Military Credit Cards Course at militarymoneymanual.com/umc3 If you want to maximize your military paycheck, check out Spencer's 5 star rated book The Military Money Manual: A Practical Guide to Financial Freedom on Amazon or at shop.militarymoneymanual.com. Want to be confident with your TSP investing? Check out the Confident TSP Investing course at militarymoneymanual.com/tsp to learn all about the Thrift Savings Plan and strategies for growing your wealth while in the military. Use promo code "podcast24" for $50 off. Plus, for every course sold, we'll donate one course to an E-4 or below- for FREE! If you have a question you would like us to answer on the podcast, please reach out on instagram.com/militarymoneymanual.

In this episode I talk with JP Camara about RubyConf 2026, submitting CFPs, and why everyone should give talks. JP shares his experience using SaturnCI on the Mastodon project, and we dig into Saturn CI's Docker-based setup, Kubernetes architecture, and test-focused UX philosophy.Links:jpcamara.comSaturnCINonsense Monthly

(00:00-6:56) Would Jackson rather Mizzou basketball make the Sweet 16 or football appear in two straight CFPs?(7:04-25:42) Let's address the elephant in the room real quick. The one-game playoff for the Design Aire Heating & Cooling EMOTD.(25:52-37:52) Jackson didn't catch any of The Grammys last night. Tampa Bay supporting Tampa Bay. Look, Doug, it's James Carlton. James is pissed at Jackson for not wearing his white shirt at the SLU game. Check meet mate. Lions, not sheep. Pinewood Derby. Most embarrassing moments professionally and personally.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week, we discuss AI's impact on Stack Overflow, Docker's Hardened Images, and Nvidia buying Groq. Plus, thoughts on playing your own game and having fun. Watch the YouTube Live Recording of Episode (https://www.youtube.com/live/LQSxLbjvz3c?si=ao8f3hwxlCrmH1vX) 554 (https://www.youtube.com/live/LQSxLbjvz3c?si=ao8f3hwxlCrmH1vX) Please complete the Software Defined Talk Listener Survey! (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfl7eHWQJwu2tBLa-FjZqHG2nr6p_Z3zQI3Pp1EyNWQ8Fu-SA/viewform?usp=header) Runner-up Titles It's all brisket after that. Exploring Fun Should I go build a snow man? Pets Innersourcing Two books Michael Lewis should write. Article IV is foundational. Freedom is options. Rundown Stack Overflow is dead. (https://x.com/rohanpaul_ai/status/2008007012920209674?s=20) Hardened Images for Everyone (https://www.docker.com/blog/docker-hardened-images-for-every-developer/) Tanzu's Bitnami stuff does this too (https://blogs.vmware.com/tanzu/what-good-software-supply-chain-security-looks-like-for-highly-regulated-industries/). OpenAI OpenAI's New Fundraising Round Could Value Startup at as Much as $830 Billion (https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/openais-new-fundraising-round-could-value-startup-at-a[…]4238&segment_id=212500&user_id=c5a514ba8b7d9a954711959a6031a3fa) OpenAI Reportedly Planning to Make ChatGPT "Prioritize" Advertisers in Conversation (https://futurism.com/artificial-intelligence/openai-chatgpt-sponsored-ads) OpenAI bets big on audio as Silicon Valley declares war on screens (https://techcrunch.com/2026/01/01/openai-bets-big-on-audio-as-silicon-valley-declares-war-on-screens/) Sam Altman says: He has zero percent interest in remaining OpenAI CEO, once (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/technology/tech-news/sam-altman-says-he-has-zero-percent-interest-remaining-openai-ceo-once-/articleshow/126350602.cms) Nvidia buying AI chip startup Groq's assets for about $20 billion in its largest deal on record (https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/24/nvidia-buying-ai-chip-startup-groq-for-about-20-billion-biggest-deal.html) Relevant to your Interests Broadcom IT uses Tanzu Platform to host MCP Servers (https://news.broadcom.com/app-dev/broadcom-tanzu-platform-agentic-business-transformation). A Brief History Of The Spreadsheet (https://hackaday.com/2025/12/15/a-brief-history-of-the-spreadsheet/) Databricks is raising over $4 billion in Series L funding at a $134 billion (https://x.com/exec_sum/status/2000971604449485132?s=20) Amazon's big AGI reorg decoded by Corey Quinn (https://www.theregister.com/2025/12/17/jassy_taps_peter_desantis_to_run_agi/) “They burned millions but got nothing.” (https://automaton-media.com/en/news/japanese-game-font-services-aggressive-price-hike-could-be-result-of-parent-companys-alleged-ai-failu/) X sues to protect Twitter brand Musk has been trying to kill (https://www.theregister.com/2025/12/17/x_twitter_brand_lawsuit/) Mozilla's new CEO says AI is coming to Firefox, but will remain a choice | TechCrunch (https://techcrunch.com/2025/12/17/mozillas-new-ceo-says-ai-is-coming-to-firefox-but-will-remain-a-choice/) Why Oracle keeps sparking AI-bubble fears (https://www.axios.com/2025/12/18/ai-oracle-stock-blue-owl) What's next for Threads (https://sources.news/p/whats-next-for-threads) Salesforce Executives Say Trust in Large Language Models Has Declined (https://www.theinformation.com/articles/salesforce-executives-say-trust-generative-ai-declined?rc=giqjaz) Akamai Technologies Announces Acquisition of Function-as-a-Service Company Fermyon (https://www.akamai.com/newsroom/press-release/akamai-announces-acquisition-of-function-as-a-service-company-fermyon) Google Rolling Out Gmail Address Change Feature: Here Is How It Works (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/google-rolling-gmail-address-change-033112607.html) The Enshittifinancial Crisis (https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-enshittifinancial-crisis/) MongoBleed: Critical MongoDB Vulnerability CVE-2025-14847 | Wiz Blog (https://www.wiz.io/blog/mongobleed-cve-2025-14847-exploited-in-the-wild-mongodb) Softbank to buy data center firm DigitalBridge for $4 billion in AI push (https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/12/29/digitalbridge-shares-jump-on-report-softbank-in-talks-to-acquire-firm.html) The best tech announced at CES 2026 so far (https://www.theverge.com/tech/854159/ces-2026-best-tech-gadgets-smartphones-appliances-robots-tvs-ai-smart-home) Who's who at X, the deepfake porn site formerly known as Twitter (https://www.ft.com/content/ad94db4c-95a0-4c65-bd8d-3b43e1251091?accessToken=zwAGR7kzep9gkdOtlNtMlaBMZdO9jTtD4SUQkQ.MEYCIQCdZajuC9uga-d9b5Z1t0HI2BIcnkVoq98loextLRpCTgIhAPL3rW72aTHBNL_lS7s1ONpM2vBgNlBNHDBeGbHkPkZj&sharetype=gift&token=a7473827-0799-4064-9008-bf22b3c99711) Manus Joins Meta for Next Era of Innovation (https://manus.im/blog/manus-joins-meta-for-next-era-of-innovation) The WELL: State of the World 2026 with Bruce Sterling and Jon Lebkowsky (https://people.well.com/conf/inkwell.vue/topics/561/State-of-the-World-2026-with-Bru-page01.html) Virtual machines still run the world (https://cote.io/2026/01/07/virtual-machines-still-run-the.html) Databases in 2025: A Year in Review (https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~pavlo/blog/2026/01/2025-databases-retrospective.html) Chat Platform Discord Files Confidentially for IPO (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-06/chat-platform-discord-is-said-to-file-confidentially-for-ipo?embedded-checkout=true) The DRAM shortage explained: AI, rising prices, and what's next (https://www.techradar.com/pro/why-is-ram-so-expensive-right-now-its-more-complicated-than-you-think) Nonsense Palantir CEO buys monastery in Old Snowmass for $120 million (https://www.denverpost.com/2025/12/17/palantir-alex-karp-snowmass-monastery/amp/) H-E-B gives free groceries to all customers after registers glitch today in Burleson, Texas. (https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/s/ZEcblg7atP) Conferences cfgmgmtcamp 2026 (https://cfgmgmtcamp.org/ghent2026/), February 2nd to 4th, Ghent, BE. Coté speaking - anyone interested in being a SDI guest? DevOpsDayLA at SCALE23x (https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/23x), March 6th, Pasadena, CA Use code: DEVOP for 50% off. Devnexus 2026 (https://devnexus.com), March 4th to 6th, Atlanta, GA. Coté has a discount code, but he's not sure if he can give it out. He's asking! Send him a DM in the meantime. KubeCon EU, March 23rd to 26th, 2026 - Coté will be there on a media pass. Whole bunch of VMUGs, mostly in the US. The CFPs are open (https://app.sessionboard.com/submit/vmug-call-for-content-2026/ae1c7013-8b85-427c-9c21-7d35f8701bbe?utm_campaign=5766542-VMUG%20Voice&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_YREN7dr6p3KSQPYkFSN5K85A-pIVYZ03ZhKZOV0O3t3h0XHdDHethhx5O8gBFguyT5mZ3n3q-ZnPKvjllFXYfWV3thg&_hsmi=393690000&utm_content=393685389&utm_source=hs_email), go speak at them! Coté speaking in Amsterdam. Amsterdam (March 17-19, 2026), Minneapolis (April 7-9, 2026), Toronto (May 12-14, 2026), Dallas (June 9-11, 2026), Orlando (October 20-22, 2026) SDT News & Community Join our Slack community (https://softwaredefinedtalk.slack.com/join/shared_invite/zt-1hn55iv5d-UTfN7mVX1D9D5ExRt3ZJYQ#/shared-invite/email) Email the show: questions@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:questions@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Free stickers: Email your address to stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Follow us on social media: Twitter (https://twitter.com/softwaredeftalk), Threads (https://www.threads.net/@softwaredefinedtalk), Mastodon (https://hachyderm.io/@softwaredefinedtalk), LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/software-defined-talk/), BlueSky (https://bsky.app/profile/softwaredefinedtalk.com) Watch us on: Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/sdtpodcast), YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi3OJPV6h9tp-hbsGBLGsDQ/featured), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/softwaredefinedtalk/), TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@softwaredefinedtalk) Book offer: Use code SDT for $20 off "Digital WTF" by Coté (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt) Sponsor the show (https://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/ads): ads@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:ads@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Recommendations Brandon: Why Data Doesn't Always Win, with a Philosopher of Art (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-points-you-shouldnt-score-a-new-years-resolution/id1685093486?i=1000743950053) (Apple Podcasts) Why Data Doesn't Always Win, with a Philosopher of Art (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AdbePyGS2M&list=RD7AdbePyGS2M&start_radio=1) (YouTube) Coté: “Databases in 2025: A Year in Review.” (https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~pavlo/blog/2026/01/2025-databases-retrospective.html) Photo Credits Header (https://unsplash.com/photos/red-and-black-love-neon-light-signage-igJrA98cf4A)

This week, we review our 2025 predictions, discuss the big stories, and speculate on 2026. Plus, Coté dives deep into the EU broth market. Watch the YouTube Live Recording of Episode (https://www.youtube.com/live/A9ighmG9ZVo?si=rJGNb5ZUm7Zr1as7) 553 (https://www.youtube.com/live/A9ighmG9ZVo?si=rJGNb5ZUm7Zr1as7) Runner-up Titles I was up at 1am thinking, “are there any good billionaires.” Maybe you forgot your shoes Not just room temperature, but cold I thought Europe was known for its soups Ice, air conditioning, and, broth - we have solved those three problems. Sloppy search Cutlery, tupperware, COVID The Young People. The Automation Apologist. I'm disappointed in everything Models don't matter anymore Shade-tree programmer An empty farm in Waco Rundown 2024 Year in Review (https://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/500) Scaling Platform Engineering in the CNCF Community - Abby Bangser (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmAfYEPBYr0) Syntaso's (https://cote.io/2025/12/12/a-great-platform-as-a.html) Platform as a Product (https://cote.io/2025/12/12/a-great-platform-as-a.html) book (https://cote.io/2025/12/12/a-great-platform-as-a.html) Claude Skills are way under-rated (https://simonwillison.net/2025/Oct/16/claude-skills/#atom-everything) “Agents are [just] models using tools in a loop. (https://simonwillison.net/2025/May/22/tools-in-a-loop/) 2026 Predications Are we in an AI Bubble? Do Anthropic or OpenAI IPO? New AI use cases? Altman remain CEO? Do Apple or AWS make an AI acquisition? CFB Championship? Conferences cfgmgmtcamp 2026 (https://cfgmgmtcamp.org/ghent2026/), February 2nd to 4th, Ghent, BE. Coté speaking and doing live SDI (https://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com) with John Willis. DevOpsDayLA at SCALE23x (https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/23x), March 6th, Pasadena, CA Use code: DEVOP for 50% off. Devnexus 2026 (https://devnexus.com), March 4th to 6th, Atlanta, GA. Coté has a discount code, but he's not sure if he can give it out. He's asking! Send him a DM in the meantime. Whole bunch of VMUGs, mostly in the US. The CFPs are open (https://app.sessionboard.com/submit/vmug-call-for-content-2026/ae1c7013-8b85-427c-9c21-7d35f8701bbe?utm_campaign=5766542-VMUG%20Voice&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_YREN7dr6p3KSQPYkFSN5K85A-pIVYZ03ZhKZOV0O3t3h0XHdDHethhx5O8gBFguyT5mZ3n3q-ZnPKvjllFXYfWV3thg&_hsmi=393690000&utm_content=393685389&utm_source=hs_email), go speak at them! Coté speaking in Amsterdam. Amsterdam (March 17-19, 2026), Minneapolis (April 7-9, 2026), Toronto (May 12-14, 2026), Dallas (June 9-11, 2026), Orlando (October 20-22, 2026) SDT News & Community Join our Slack community (https://softwaredefinedtalk.slack.com/join/shared_invite/zt-1hn55iv5d-UTfN7mVX1D9D5ExRt3ZJYQ#/shared-invite/email) Email the show: questions@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:questions@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Free stickers: Email your address to stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Follow us on social media: Twitter (https://twitter.com/softwaredeftalk), Threads (https://www.threads.net/@softwaredefinedtalk), Mastodon (https://hachyderm.io/@softwaredefinedtalk), LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/software-defined-talk/), BlueSky (https://bsky.app/profile/softwaredefinedtalk.com) Watch us on: Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/sdtpodcast), YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi3OJPV6h9tp-hbsGBLGsDQ/featured), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/softwaredefinedtalk/), TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@softwaredefinedtalk) Book offer: Use code SDT for $20 off "Digital WTF" by Coté (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt) Sponsor the show (https://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/ads): ads@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:ads@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Recommendations Brandon: Pluribus (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://tv.apple.com/us/show/pluribus/umc.cmc.37axgovs2yozlyh3c2cmwzlza&ved=2ahUKEwj94pWHosCRAxX-mmoFHeF7KbgQFnoECEoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2W_xeuAzFACtJCdDvFwM00) — slow but interesting Coté: AirPods Pro 3 (https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChsSEwiQ5JzpusKRAxVBUn8AHe7xPP8YACICCAEQBRoCb2E&co=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAo4TKBhDRARIsAGW29bekdBAYoqVoLRqMLA4ewcWjmyTcM-6QDHqyRuVhs2m83NpqTuU8OnMaAsdkEALw_wcB&cid=CAASugHkaITuXJZ1jpv9xBv-P8t9gtoTvWcxshztb_PAClxlbDXMphhj9bDBcmlXEYuo6rcOaqAu6uRT0epK4d2dOPrgA9JMcc24FrdC8gQBSngeUz0dl_ljpYM1GBxKkRFBx_Uv7MgdZTVa98rgiUt45EUlgffOntGj3VWte7ePJ2FcqSkOYtU0eVb1NkubcYZTJ6_B2Kxm8vLmAcs49k0dg6loxTlduS6WAXipDuxPul1MFsttgtMwkSH24GY&cce=1&sig=AOD64_3vUUu6YHfYM-_QRmv4W9Go88AS9w&q&adurl&ved=2ahUKEwiN4ZbpusKRAxUEkmoFHb4uMCsQ0Qx6BAgYEAE) Photo Credits Header (https://unsplash.com/photos/a-black-and-gold-background-with-the-number-205-HKpRWdyRrp8)

Joe Withrow, Brian Moody, and Hans Toohey deliver a joint strategy session on building a financial foundation that survives contact with reality. Why does traditional financial planning put growth before protection? What happens when your plan gets punched in the face? And why is Infinite Banking the only savings vehicle that accomplishes two critical goals simultaneously?Most people have been trained to think their 401(k) is savings and their term life insurance is "just in case." They're told to focus on growth—index funds, average rates of return, retirement projections—while protection and actual savings become afterthoughts. But when job loss hits, disability strikes, or markets crater, the whole plan collapses. This episode reveals the proper order of operations: protect first, save second, grow third. Hans breaks down why "average rate of return" is a meaningless data point. Brian illustrates the parallel paths of protection and wealth accumulation with the diagram that makes it all click. And Joe explains why buying insurance isn't an expense if you do it correctly—it's saving money that immediately becomes accessible capital.The conversation covers IBC mechanics, policy loans that don't disrupt compounding, real estate purchases funded with cash value, the power of dinner table time for passing down values, and why building generational wealth starts with one decision: get the foundation right, then everything else becomes possible.Chapters:00:00 - Opening segment01:25 - New Year's resolutions: tangible goals vs. vague aspirations08:50 - The invention of "Retirement Inc." in the 1970s11:05 - Protect, Save, Grow: the proper order of operations13:10 - What traditional CFPs get wrong about protection14:35 - Why "average rate of return" is a useless metric16:40 - Brian's parallel paths diagram begins19:30 - The two parallel paths: protection and wealth accumulation22:30 - What can disrupt the wealth curve? (audience participation)25:50 - Poor investment decisions: the most common sabotage27:05 - Infinite money printing: Congress is the real villain30:05 - Low Stress Options trading: the 1% per week framework32:25 - Why people abandon the framework (and regret it)33:00 - Systematizing savings: DCA into gold and Bitcoin every week36:25 - UPMA for fractional gold ownership37:45 - IBC: not an expense, it's saving money39:15 - The kids' policies: $3,000 payment = $3,500 cash value40:10 - Legal protection: equity in life insurance vs. bank accounts41:15 - Brian: IBC's rate isn't big compared to investments, but...42:50 - Whole life matches a guaranteed event (death) with guaranteed outcome44:30 - Joe's real estate purchases funded by policy loans45:30 - Hans breaks down policy loan mechanics (not simple interest)47:40 - Annual compounding with principal-only repayments48:15 - Hans's approach: keep loans levered for LSO trading49:45 - Cash doesn't find opportunities, opportunities find cash51:00 - Brian's land purchase: opportunity requires capital53:10 - Making purchases for freedom and security, not money itself59:30 - Actionable next steps1:08:40 - Heritage over inheritance: building bloodline strength1:09:30 - The Five Pillars: financial is just one piece1:10:10 - Passing down American values and family culture1:12:25 - Dinner table time: 90 minutes in the '70s vs. 11 minutes today1:14:30 - Start at your locus of control and expand outward1:15:20 - Multi-generational thinking: buying IBC for grandkids1:27:00 - Closing segmentVisit https://remnantfinance.com for more informationFOLLOW REMNANT FINANCEYoutube: @RemnantFinance (https://www.youtube.com/@RemnantFinance )Facebook: @remnantfinance (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61560694316588 )Twitter: @remnantfinance (https://x.com/remnantfinance )TikTok: @RemnantFinanceDon't forget to hit LIKE and SUBSCRIBEGot Questions? Reach out to us at info@remnantfinance.com or book a call at https://remnantfinance.com/calendar !

This week, Brian Gracely joins to dissect strategic choices made by Broadcom, Docker, Netflix and Intel. Plus: The AI Bifurcation—are models commodities or product pillars? Rundown Licensing in VMware Cloud Foundation 9.0 (https://blogs.vmware.com/cloud-foundation/2025/06/24/licensing-in-vmware-cloud-foundation-9-0/) Hardened Images for Everyone (https://www.docker.com/blog/docker-hardened-images-for-every-developer/) Introducing Chainguard EmeritOSS (https://www.chainguard.dev/unchained/introducing-chainguard-emeritoss) Netflix to Acquire Warner Bros. (https://about.netflix.com/en/news/netflix-to-acquire-warner-bros) Anthropic reportedly preparing for one of the largest IPOs (https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/03/anthropic-claude-reportedly-preparing-ipo-race-openai-chatgpt-ft-wilson-sonsini-goodrich-rosati.html) Conferences cfgmgmtcamp 2026 (https://cfgmgmtcamp.org/ghent2026/), February 2nd to 4th, Ghent, BE. Coté speaking and doing live SDI (https://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com) with John Willis. DevOpsDayLA at SCALE23x (https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/23x), March 6th, Pasadena, CA Use code: DEVOP for 50% off. Devnexus 2026 (https://devnexus.com), March 4th to 6th, Atlanta, GA. Whole bunch of VMUGs, mostly in the US. The CFPs are open (https://app.sessionboard.com/submit/vmug-call-for-content-2026/ae1c7013-8b85-427c-9c21-7d35f8701bbe?utm_campaign=5766542-VMUG%20Voice&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_YREN7dr6p3KSQPYkFSN5K85A-pIVYZ03ZhKZOV0O3t3h0XHdDHethhx5O8gBFguyT5mZ3n3q-ZnPKvjllFXYfWV3thg&_hsmi=393690000&utm_content=393685389&utm_source=hs_email), go speak at them! Coté speaking in Amsterdam. Amsterdam (March 17-19, 2026), Minneapolis (April 7-9, 2026), Toronto (May 12-14, 2026), Dallas (June 9-11, 2026), Orlando (October 20-22, 2026) SDT News & Community Join our Slack community (https://softwaredefinedtalk.slack.com/join/shared_invite/zt-1hn55iv5d-UTfN7mVX1D9D5ExRt3ZJYQ#/shared-invite/email) Email the show: questions@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:questions@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Free stickers: Email your address to stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Follow us on social media: Twitter (https://twitter.com/softwaredeftalk), Threads (https://www.threads.net/@softwaredefinedtalk), Mastodon (https://hachyderm.io/@softwaredefinedtalk), LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/software-defined-talk/), BlueSky (https://bsky.app/profile/softwaredefinedtalk.com) Watch us on: Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/sdtpodcast), YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi3OJPV6h9tp-hbsGBLGsDQ/featured), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/softwaredefinedtalk/), TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@softwaredefinedtalk) Book offer: Use code SDT for $20 off "Digital WTF" by Coté (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt) Sponsor the show (https://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/ads): ads@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:ads@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Photo Credits Header (https://unsplash.com/photos/university-of-alabama-football-game-tuscaloosa-alabama-YcVe7gL9A0s) Special Guest: Brian Gracely.

This week, we discuss Oracle's AI vibes, Chainguard's EmeritOSS, and GitHub's pricing U-turn. Plus, a robust robot vacuum debate. Watch the YouTube Live Recording of Episode 551 (https://youtube.com/live/TpDLcvAXrqo?feature=share) Runner-up Titles It has CarPlay iPad Range Anxiety an Australian documentary Oracle got popped Intentions I don't feel bad for them Open Source old folks home Spreadsheets love it Robots are going to take care of us The Median User Nobody feels bad for the whales I have a dog I have a Korean microwave We're the Neal Stephenson of podcasts Rundown Ford pulls the plug on the all-electric F-150 Lightning pickup truck (https://www.npr.org/2025/12/15/nx-s1-5645147/ford-discontinues-all-electric-f-150-lightning) AI Investment Oracle plummets 11% on weak revenue, pushing down AI stocks like Nvidia and CoreWeave (https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/10/oracle-orcl-q2-earnings-report-2026.html) Oracle Shares Drop the Most Since 2001 on Mounting AI Spending (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-12-10/oracle-posts-weak-cloud-sales-raising-fear-of-delayed-payoff) OpenAI in Talks to Raise At Least $10 Billion From Amazon and Use Its AI Chips (http://1 https://www.theinformation.com/articles/openai-talks-raise-least-10-billion-amazon-use-ai-chips) S&P 500 falls after nearing record as Oracle disappointment drags down AI stocks (https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/10/stock-market-today-live-updates.html) Inside The $1T AI Economy (https://x.com/StockSavvyShay/status/2000920959000445220?s=20) Introducing Chainguard EmeritOSS: Sustainable stewardship for mature open source (https://www.chainguard.dev/unchained/introducing-chainguard-emeritoss) Runners Announcing powerful upgrades & a new pricing model for self-hosted runners (https://www.atlassian.com/blog/bitbucket/announcing-v5-self-hosted-runners) GitHub to charge for self-hosted runners from March 2026 (https://devclass.com/2025/12/17/github-to-charge-for-self-hosted-runners-from-march-2026/) GitHub postpones changes to self-hosted runners pricing plans (https://x.com/github/status/2001372894882918548?s=46) Why Git (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3_95BZYIVs)H (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3_95BZYIVs)ub Why? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3_95BZYIVs) Coursera to buy Udemy, creating $2.5 billion firm to target AI training (https://www.reuters.com/business/coursera-udemy-merge-deal-valuing-combined-firm-25-billion-2025-12-17/) Roomba Maker iRobot Files for Bankruptcy, With Chinese Supplier Taking Control (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/15/business/roomba-irobot-bankruptcy.html) Relevant to your Interests Harness raises a $240M Series E at a $5.5B valuation (https://www.axios.com/pro/enterprise-software-deals/2025/12/11/harness-goldman-sachs-series-e-software) A great platform as a product paper, and a fun platform philosophy thereof (https://cote.io/2025/12/12/a-great-platform-as-a.html) Google Launches Managed Remote MCP Servers for Its Cloud Services (https://thenewstack.io/google-launches-managed-remote-mcp-servers-for-its-cloud-services/) Fake Leonardo DiCaprio Movie Torrent Drops Agent Tesla Through Layered PowerShell Chain (https://www.bitdefender.com/en-us/blog/labs/fake-leonardo-dicaprio-movie-torrent-agent-tesla-powershell) Useful patterns for building HTML tools (https://simonwillison.net/2025/Dec/10/html-tools/) Waymo Seeking Over $15 Billion Near $100 Billion Valuation (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-12-16/waymo-seeks-to-raise-funds-at-valuation-near-100-billion) Write your CV or resume as YAML, then run RenderCV, (https://github.com/rendercv/rendercv) (https://github.com/rendercv/rendercv)and get a PDF with perfect typography. No template wrestling. No broken layouts. Consistent spacing, every time (https://github.com/rendercv/rendercv) Roomba Maker iRobot Files for Bankruptcy, With Chinese Supplier Taking Control (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/15/business/roomba-irobot-bankruptcy.html) Nonsense The Full Text of Marco Rubio's Directive on State Department Typography, Re-Establishing Times New Roman (https://daringfireball.net/2025/12/full_text_of_marco_rubio_state_dept_directive_times_new_roman) Listener Feedback Sent stickers to Jelle in Belgium Conferences cfgmgmtcamp 2026 (https://cfgmgmtcamp.org/ghent2026/), February 2nd to 4th, Ghent, BE. Coté speaking and doing live SDI (https://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com) with John Willis. DevOpsDayLA at SCALE23x (https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/23x), March 6th, Pasadena, CA Use code: DEVOP for 50% off. Devnexus 2026 (https://devnexus.com), March 4th to 6th, Atlanta, GA. Whole bunch of VMUGs, mostly in the US. The CFPs are open (https://app.sessionboard.com/submit/vmug-call-for-content-2026/ae1c7013-8b85-427c-9c21-7d35f8701bbe?utm_campaign=5766542-VMUG%20Voice&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_YREN7dr6p3KSQPYkFSN5K85A-pIVYZ03ZhKZOV0O3t3h0XHdDHethhx5O8gBFguyT5mZ3n3q-ZnPKvjllFXYfWV3thg&_hsmi=393690000&utm_content=393685389&utm_source=hs_email), go speak at them! Coté speaking in Amsterdam. Amsterdam (March 17-19, 2026), Minneapolis (April 7-9, 2026), Toronto (May 12-14, 2026), Dallas (June 9-11, 2026), Orlando (October 20-22, 2026) SDT News & Community Join our Slack community (https://softwaredefinedtalk.slack.com/join/shared_invite/zt-1hn55iv5d-UTfN7mVX1D9D5ExRt3ZJYQ#/shared-invite/email) Email the show: questions@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:questions@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Free stickers: Email your address to stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Follow us on social media: Twitter (https://twitter.com/softwaredeftalk), Threads (https://www.threads.net/@softwaredefinedtalk), Mastodon (https://hachyderm.io/@softwaredefinedtalk), LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/software-defined-talk/), BlueSky (https://bsky.app/profile/softwaredefinedtalk.com) Watch us on: Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/sdtpodcast), YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi3OJPV6h9tp-hbsGBLGsDQ/featured), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/softwaredefinedtalk/), TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@softwaredefinedtalk) Book offer: Use code SDT for $20 off "Digital WTF" by Coté (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt) Sponsor the show (https://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/ads): ads@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:ads@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Recommendations Brandon: Humble Audiobook Bundle: Shadows, Stars & Screams: Epic Audiobooks (https://www.humblebundle.com/books/shadows-stars-screams-epic-audiobooks-dramas-realm-books) Matt: Termination Shock (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57094295-termination-shock) - Neal Stephenson Photo Credits Header (https://unsplash.com/s/photos/electric-vehicle?orientation=landscape&license=free)

This week, we discuss how Netflix is disrupting media, IBM's Confluent acquisition, and Anthropic buying Bun. Plus, an important discussion on fonts and typography. Watch the YouTube Live Recording of Episode (https://www.youtube.com/live/nNpiI00HPDg?si=s_G3zr_Z8yPvGNbB) 550 (https://www.youtube.com/live/nNpiI00HPDg?si=s_G3zr_Z8yPvGNbB) Runner-up Titles Blame the children I never liked that font No emojis, this is business time Mahalo You need a Chief Economist On the cutlery tray Rundown Rubio Deletes Calibri as the State Department's Official Typeface (https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/09/us/politics/rubio-state-department-font.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share) Cartridge (https://www.fontspring.com/fonts/simplebits/cartridge) Source Code Pro (https://adobe-fonts.github.io/source-code-pro/) It's Official: Netflix to Acquire Warner Bros. in Deal Valued at $82.7 Billion (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/netflix-warner-bros-deal-hollywood-1236443081/) Confluent stock soars 29% as IBM announces $11 billion acquisition deal (https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/08/ibm-confluent-deal-data.html) Bun is joining Anthropic (https://bun.com/blog/bun-joins-anthropic?utm_source=changelog-news) Claude Code is coming to Slack, and that's a bigger deal than it sounds (https://techcrunch.com/2025/12/08/claude-code-is-coming-to-slack-and-thats-a-bigger-deal-than-it-sounds/) OpenAI enterprise usage study (https://cote.io/2025/12/10/highlights-from-that-openai-the.html). Relevant to your Interests Antigravity Is Google's New Agentic Development Platform (https://thenewstack.io/antigravity-is-googles-new-agentic-development-platform/) Amazon CTO Werner Vogels' Predictions for 2026 (https://thenewstack.io/amazon-cto-werner-vogels-predictions-for-2026/) ‘End-to-end encrypted' smart toilet camera is not actually end-to-end encrypted (https://techcrunch.com/2025/12/03/end-to-end-encrypted-smart-toilet-camera-is-not-actually-end-to-end-encrypted/) AWS AI IDE, AgentCore throw down gauntlets for Microsoft (https://www.techtarget.com/searchsoftwarequality/news/366635669/AWS-AI-IDE-AgentCore-throw-down-gauntlets-for-Microsoft) Admins and defenders gird themselves against maximum-severity server vuln (https://arstechnica.com/security/2025/12/admins-and-defenders-gird-themselves-against-maximum-severity-server-vulnerability/) Andy Jassy says Amazon's Nvidia competitor chip is already a multibillion-dollar business (https://techcrunch.com/2025/12/03/andy-jassy-says-amazons-nvidia-competitor-chip-is-already-a-multi-billion-dollar-business/) 52 things I learned in 2025 (https://medium.com/@tomwhitwell/52-things-i-learned-in-2025-edeca7e3fdd8) State of AI | OpenRouter (https://openrouter.ai/state-of-ai) Microsoft has a problem: nobody wants its poor AI products (https://www.windowscentral.com/artificial-intelligence/microsoft-has-a-problem-nobody-wants-to-buy-or-use-its-shoddy-ai) DHH & Open Source (https://ma.tt/2025/12/dhh-open-source/) Gruber: Apple employees 'giddy' about Alan Dye's departure - 9to5Mac (https://9to5mac.com/2025/12/04/gruber-apple-employees-giddy-about-alan-dyes-departure/) Apple announces (https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/04/apple-announces-departure-lisa-jackson-kate-adams.html) the (https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/04/apple-announces-departure-lisa-jackson-kate-adams.html) departure of general counsel and policy chief (https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/04/apple-announces-departure-lisa-jackson-kate-adams.html) Nonsense All of the Men's Clothing We Loved (and Didn't) From Costco's Kirkland Signature (https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/costco-kirkland-signature-menswear/) Conferences cfgmgmtcamp 2026 (https://cfgmgmtcamp.org/ghent2026/), February 2nd to 4th, Ghent, BE. Coté speaking and doing live SDI (https://www.softwaredefinedinterviews.com) with John Willis. DevOpsDayLA at SCALE23x (https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/23x), March 6th, Pasadena, CA Use code: DEVOP for 50% off. Devnexus 2026 (https://devnexus.com), March 4th to 6th, Atlanta, GA. Whole bunch of VMUGs, mostly in the US. The CFPs are open (https://app.sessionboard.com/submit/vmug-call-for-content-2026/ae1c7013-8b85-427c-9c21-7d35f8701bbe?utm_campaign=5766542-VMUG%20Voice&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_YREN7dr6p3KSQPYkFSN5K85A-pIVYZ03ZhKZOV0O3t3h0XHdDHethhx5O8gBFguyT5mZ3n3q-ZnPKvjllFXYfWV3thg&_hsmi=393690000&utm_content=393685389&utm_source=hs_email), go speak at them! Coté speaking in Amsterdam. Amsterdam (March 17-19, 2026), Minneapolis (April 7-9, 2026), Toronto (May 12-14, 2026), Dallas (June 9-11, 2026), Orlando (October 20-22, 2026) SDT News & Community Join our Slack community (https://softwaredefinedtalk.slack.com/join/shared_invite/zt-1hn55iv5d-UTfN7mVX1D9D5ExRt3ZJYQ#/shared-invite/email) Email the show: questions@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:questions@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Free stickers: Email your address to stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Follow us on social media: Twitter (https://twitter.com/softwaredeftalk), Threads (https://www.threads.net/@softwaredefinedtalk), Mastodon (https://hachyderm.io/@softwaredefinedtalk), LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/software-defined-talk/), BlueSky (https://bsky.app/profile/softwaredefinedtalk.com) Watch us on: Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/sdtpodcast), YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi3OJPV6h9tp-hbsGBLGsDQ/featured), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/softwaredefinedtalk/), TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@softwaredefinedtalk) Book offer: Use code SDT for $20 off "Digital WTF" by Coté (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt) Sponsor the show (https://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/ads): ads@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:ads@softwaredefinedtalk.com) Recommendations Brandon: Short Power Extension Cord Outlet Saver (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H9MCTGL?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1) Matt: Everything is Tuberculosis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything_Is_Tuberculosis) Octopus Project - Music is Happiness (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6y5hisXx7s) Coté: The Octopus Organization (https://www.theoctopusorganization.com). Photo Credits Header (https://unsplash.com/photos/white-and-black-dice-on-black-surface-IrQrT37qDQE)

The Moneywise Radio Show and Podcast Friday, December 5th BE MONEYWISE. Moneywise Wealth Management I "The Moneywise Radio Show & Podcast" call: 661-847-1000 text in anytime: 661-396-1000 website: www.MoneywiseGuys.com facebook: Moneywise_Wealth_Management LinkedIn: Moneywise_Wealth_Management Guest: Scarlett Sabin, House Manager for the Ronald McDonald House of Bakersfield website: https://rmhcsc.org/bakersfield  

Advisors everywhere are feeling the pressure to scale, hire, and prepare for a wave of retirements that will reshape the industry. At the same time, firms are struggling to attract women, keep next-gen advisors engaged, and build teams that actually create freedom instead of more work.That's why I wanted to bring Lindsey Lewis on the show. After building a $200M book in her first year at Vanguard, Lindsey shifted her career toward research at The American College so she could help the profession fix its biggest blind spots—especially around women in finance, advisor retention, and the future talent pipeline.We dig into the data shaping the next decade of financial services: what women uniquely bring to advisory firms, why Gen Z is more interested in this profession than any generation before them, and how training, compensation, and career clarity determine whether young advisors stay or disappear.4 of the biggest insights from Lindsey …#1.) The Biggest Talent Gap in Advisor HistoryWe're staring down a generational shift in this profession. Tens of thousands of advisors are aging out. And when you run the math, the industry would need to hire over a million new people just to meet today's demand. Lindsey walks through the data behind this massive workforce gap and why the firms who build real training, career paths, and development now will be miles ahead of everyone else over the next decade.#2.) Women Advisors Are a Huge Missed OpportunityThe numbers don't lie: women make up 25% of CFPs… but only a small fraction are in sales/growth positions. And it's not a talent issue, it's how the industry has shaped roles, pay structures, and expectations over time. Lindsey breaks down why women often outperform in retention, personalization, referrals, and relationship depth, yet get pushed into service tracks or stay risk-averse because of cultural narratives, confidence gaps, or biases inside firms. The upside for the firms who fix this is enormous. Women represent one of the biggest untapped growth engines in financial services.#3.) Gen Z Wants In, But Poor Onboarding Pushes Them OutHere's the part no one expects: financial services is now Gen Z's top-preferred industry over tech and medicine. But at the same time, 1 in 4 early-career advisors say their onboarding wasn't effective — and those are the same people who leave within seven years. Lindsey lays out exactly what this generation needs to stay: mentorship, sponsorship, clear career paths, ongoing education, and roles that evolve with their confidence. If you want a talent pipeline that sticks, it starts with the first 12–18 months.#4.) Compensation Makes or Breaks Your TeamComp plans aren't just about money, they're about psychology. Young advisors need stability before they're ready to take on variable comp. Others crave upside and hate the idea of a flat salary. Lindsey explains the difference between income risk tolerance and income risk capacity, and why misalignment between the person and the pay structure is one of the biggest drivers of turnover. When firms get comp wrong, they churn through talent. When they get it right, people stay, grow, and eventually step into the very roles the industry is desperate to fill. SHOW NOTEShttps://bradleyjohnson.com/145FOLLOW BRAD JOHNSON ON SOCIALTwitterInstagramLinkedInFOLLOW DBDL ON SOCIAL:YouTubeTwitterInstagramLinkedInFacebookDISCLOSURE DBDL podcast episode conversations are intended to provide financial advisors with ideas, strategies, concepts and tools that could be incorporated into their business and their life. No statements made in the episode are offered as, and shall not constitute financial, investment, tax or legal advice. Financial professionals are responsible for ensuring implementation of anything discussed related to business is done so in accordance with any and all regulatory, compliance responsibilities and obligations. The Triad member statements reflect their own experience which may not be representative of all Triad Member experiences, and their appearances were not paid for. Triad Wealth Partners, LLC is an SEC Registered Investment Adviser. Please visit Triadwealthpartners.com for more information. Triad Wealth Partners, LLC and Triad Partners, LLC are affiliated companies. TP11254981366See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Nick Hopwood, Certified Financial Planner and Founder of Peak Wealth Management, joins Steve Gruber to break down smart strategies for your retirement and investments. From new IRA, 401(k), and HSA contribution limits to catch-up rules for those over 50, Nick explains how to make the most of your money. He also compares Wirehouse advisors to RIAs, discusses the impact of the government shutdown on retirement planning, and weighs in on the latest mortgage trends. To get a free Social Security analysis and a second opinion with Nick and his team of CFPs to retire with confidence, visit peakwm.com/gruber.

You know what's truly terrifying? Realizing you and someone you share money decisions with have completely different ideas about finances—and you're both convinced you're right. Joe Saul-Sehy and OG welcome Doug and Heather Bonaparte, a CFP and business partner duo who've mastered the art of not killing each other over finances. And when you work together AND live together? Let's just say they've had plenty of practice navigating the financial frights that haunt any relationship where money's involved. Whether you're married, dating, splitting rent with a roommate, or partnering on a business venture, the same money monsters show up: the "fair split" debates, the family expectation zombies that won't stay dead, and those vampiric spending habits that drain shared accounts when you're not looking. Doug and Heather share what actually works—the timing tricks, the tone shifts, and the teamwork strategies that keep financial conversations from turning into horror shows, no matter who you're talking to. This isn't about becoming perfect financial partners overnight. It's about exorcising the money demons before they possess your most important relationships—romantic, professional, or otherwise. Plus: Joe and OG stir the cauldron with Halloween movie talk and trivia, because even the scariest conversations are better with a little basement humor. What You'll Walk Away With: How to start money conversations without summoning the spirits of past arguments (works for spouses, roommates, business partners, you name it) Doug and Heather's hard-won strategies for navigating disagreements when money and relationships overlap Why "financial transparency" isn't about policing every purchase—it's about understanding each other's money ghosts The three things any financial partnership needs to align on before the little stuff stops haunting you Permission to be messy while you figure this out (even CFPs have money fights) This Episode Is For You If: You share financial decisions with ANYONE—a partner, roommate, business associate, or family member Money conversations feel like walking through a haunted house blindfolded Someone else's financial habits make you want to scream louder than a horror movie victim You're tired of being cast as the villain every time you want to discuss shared expenses You need proof that even professionals who literally do this for a living still have to work at it FULL SHOW NOTES: https://stackingbenjamins.com/money-communication-horror-stories-1754 Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/201 Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You know what's truly terrifying? Realizing you and someone you share money decisions with have completely different ideas about finances—and you're both convinced you're right. Joe Saul-Sehy and OG welcome Doug and Heather Bonaparte, a CFP and business partner duo who've mastered the art of not killing each other over finances. And when you work together AND live together? Let's just say they've had plenty of practice navigating the financial frights that haunt any relationship where money's involved. Whether you're married, dating, splitting rent with a roommate, or partnering on a business venture, the same money monsters show up: the "fair split" debates, the family expectation zombies that won't stay dead, and those vampiric spending habits that drain shared accounts when you're not looking. Doug and Heather share what actually works—the timing tricks, the tone shifts, and the teamwork strategies that keep financial conversations from turning into horror shows, no matter who you're talking to. This isn't about becoming perfect financial partners overnight. It's about exorcising the money demons before they possess your most important relationships—romantic, professional, or otherwise. Plus: Joe and OG stir the cauldron with Halloween movie talk and trivia, because even the scariest conversations are better with a little basement humor. What You'll Walk Away With: How to start money conversations without summoning the spirits of past arguments (works for spouses, roommates, business partners, you name it) Doug and Heather's hard-won strategies for navigating disagreements when money and relationships overlap Why "financial transparency" isn't about policing every purchase—it's about understanding each other's money ghosts The three things any financial partnership needs to align on before the little stuff stops haunting you Permission to be messy while you figure this out (even CFPs have money fights) This Episode Is For You If: You share financial decisions with ANYONE—a partner, roommate, business associate, or family member Money conversations feel like walking through a haunted house blindfolded Someone else's financial habits make you want to scream louder than a horror movie victim You're tired of being cast as the villain every time you want to discuss shared expenses You need proof that even professionals who literally do this for a living still have to work at it FULL SHOW NOTES: https://stackingbenjamins.com/money-communication-horror-stories-1754 Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/201 Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You've got questions. We've got two CFPs and a former planner ready to hash it out. Joe Saul-Sehy, OG, Doug, and CFP Anna Allem tackle the money decisions you're actually losing sleep over—and here's the thing: they don't always agree on the answer. That's the point. Should you drain your emergency fund to pay off debt? Is whole life insurance for your kids a smart move or an expensive mistake? How much life insurance do you actually need (not what some calculator tells you)? And when life throws you a curveball—layoff, surprise expense, major purchase—what's the move? With Joe Saul-Sehy's 16 years in financial planning, OG's CFP perspective, and Anna's insights, you'll hear how experienced voices think through these decisions differently—and why your answer might be different than all of theirs. Because the real skill isn't finding THE right answer; it's learning how to make YOUR right call. This episode is for anyone who's ever stared at their bank account thinking, "I know I should do something... but what?" Plus: Doug delivers trivia about the first auto insurance policy (because of course), the gang weighs in on athlete endorsements and reverse mortgages, and there's a TikTok money tip that sparks some debate. What You'll Walk Away With: • How experienced financial minds approach the emergency fund dilemma differently—and what that means for your situation • The whole life insurance debate: when it makes sense for kids and when you're better off elsewhere • A framework for figuring out how much life insurance you actually need—and why the "rules of thumb" don't always work • What to do when your financial plan meets real life (layoffs, surprise bills, major purchases) • The confidence to make a decision even when experts would handle it differently Before You Hit Play, Ask Yourself: What's the one money question you keep Googling but still don't feel confident about? If you're second-guessing your emergency fund, your insurance, or a big financial move, this episode is your permission to stop spinning and start deciding. Got a question we didn't cover? Call in to the show! StackingBenjamins.com/Voicemail FULL SHOW NOTES: https://stackingbenjamins.com/answering-your-burning-financial-questions-1750 Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/201 Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You've got questions. We've got two CFPs and a former planner ready to hash it out. Joe Saul-Sehy, OG, Doug, and CFP Anna Allem tackle the money decisions you're actually losing sleep over—and here's the thing: they don't always agree on the answer. That's the point. Should you drain your emergency fund to pay off debt? Is whole life insurance for your kids a smart move or an expensive mistake? How much life insurance do you actually need (not what some calculator tells you)? And when life throws you a curveball—layoff, surprise expense, major purchase—what's the move? With Joe Saul-Sehy's 16 years in financial planning, OG's CFP perspective, and Anna's insights, you'll hear how experienced voices think through these decisions differently—and why your answer might be different than all of theirs. Because the real skill isn't finding THE right answer; it's learning how to make YOUR right call. This episode is for anyone who's ever stared at their bank account thinking, "I know I should do something... but what?" Plus: Doug delivers trivia about the first auto insurance policy (because of course), the gang weighs in on athlete endorsements and reverse mortgages, and there's a TikTok money tip that sparks some debate. What You'll Walk Away With: • How experienced financial minds approach the emergency fund dilemma differently—and what that means for your situation • The whole life insurance debate: when it makes sense for kids and when you're better off elsewhere • A framework for figuring out how much life insurance you actually need—and why the "rules of thumb" don't always work • What to do when your financial plan meets real life (layoffs, surprise bills, major purchases) • The confidence to make a decision even when experts would handle it differently Before You Hit Play, Ask Yourself: What's the one money question you keep Googling but still don't feel confident about? If you're second-guessing your emergency fund, your insurance, or a big financial move, this episode is your permission to stop spinning and start deciding. Got a question we didn't cover? Call in to the show! StackingBenjamins.com/Voicemail FULL SHOW NOTES: https://stackingbenjamins.com/answering-your-burning-financial-questions-1750 Deeper dives with curated links, topics, and discussions are in our newsletter, The 201, available at https://www.stackingbenjamins.com/201 Enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, Jack Sharry talks with Stephen Chen, Founder & CEO of Boldin. Stephen is a classic entrepreneur who takes pride in creating innovative ways to help anyone achieve financial independence. He built the "TurboTax" for financial planning and has been creating platforms for SAAS, classes, coaching, and CFPs for consumers, advisors, and companies. Stephen talks with Jack about how he makes retirement planning more accessible, collaborative, and user-friendly. He shares how he built a "TurboTax" for financial planning that resonates with DIY planners and high-net-worth individuals and how Boldin has evolved from a direct-to-consumer offering to a robust platform serving consumers, advisors, and large enterprises. In this episode: (00:00) - Intro (01:39) - What Bolden does and why it matters (03:12) - The growth in user adoption for financial planning (06:23) - Stephen's career journey (10:09) - Boldin's organic growth strategy (13:14) - Stephen's plans and investment strategies  (15:54) - Creating a collaborative platform for advisors (18:10) - The role of AI in Boldin's operations (20:51) - Using simulations to optimize financial actions (23:13) - Steve's key takeaways (24:050 - Steve's interests outside of work Quotes "We want anyone to be able to build their own financial plan and, through planning, get literate, make good decisions, hopefully take action, and achieve better outcomes in their life." ~ Stephen Chen "If financial advisors are aging out, how do we bridge that gap? I think it's going to be technology enabling advisors to serve more people." ~ Stephen Chen "AI is real, and it's amazing how fast it's changing and what's possible. It's shocking, and it's a little scary." ~ Stephen Chen Links  Stephen Chen on LinkedIn Boldin Charles Schwab Wells Fargo Salesforce RTX McKinsey Connect with our hosts LifeYield Jack Sharry on LinkedIn Jack Sharry on Twitter Subscribe and stay in touch Apple Podcasts Spotify LinkedIn Twitter Facebook

Hot take: I loved working in a Skilled Nursing Facility. Skilled nursing facilities are one of the highest paid settings for occupational therapy professionals. And about one-fifth of us work in one. But, work in one can have a bad rap. In today's intro to SNF OT course, we'll walk through the common challenges, and immense opportunities of working in a SNF. We'll cover the specific things you need to know, from payment models to common assessments. And, we'll paint a picture of how you as an OT can really be a driver of culture and care in this unique and important setting.We'll be joined by Trent Brown, MOT, OTR/L, ATP, CGCP, CFPS, BCG, a practicing occupational therapist, who is also a part of the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) as an assistant office director with a focus on developing and operating quality improvement programs, particularly in SNFs.Support the show

On this episode of The Steve Gruber Show, Nick Hopwood, Founder and President of Peak Wealth Management, shares his expert insights on the current state of the financial markets and retirement planning strategies. Nick breaks down the Federal Reserve's upcoming rate cuts, why investors shouldn't stay in cash, and how international indexes are hitting all-time highs despite widespread nervousness. He also revisits the trends following Fed Chair Powell's Jackson Hole speech, explaining how historical patterns show strong returns for investors over the coming year. Nick also covers tax-efficient strategies for Bene IRAs and why having a solid plan, and trusting it, is more important than ever. Listeners can get a second opinion from Nick and his team of CFPs at peakwm.com/gruber

In this episode, I sit down with finance pro Neil Jesani to cut through the noise on tax write-offs for entrepreneurs and investors. We break down active vs. passive income, what actually unlocks depreciation (cost seg, real estate professional (REP), short-term rental rules), why 461(l) caps W-2 offsets, and how business owners can do far more. We hit estate tax vs. income tax, the step-up in basis myth/truth, smart uses of §179/bonus depreciation (including equipment plays), audits & record-keeping, and practical setup for new founders (LLC → S-Corp). If you're making money—or about to—this will help you keep more of it, legally.   About Neil: Neil Jesani is the founder of Neil Jesani Advisors, Inc., a national boutique tax, accounting, and financial advisory firm based in the Miami–Fort Lauderdale area. His in-house team includes CPAs, IRS Enrolled Agents, tax attorneys, and CFPs serving high-income individuals, entrepreneurs, and professional firms across the U.S., with a focus on advanced tax strategy, compliance, business performance, and legacy planning. The firm operates from a ~10,000 sq ft office and emphasizes research-driven, white-glove execution. Jesani also leads Neil Jesani Wealth, a multi-family office for ultra-high-net-worth families. Connect with Him: Website: neiljesani.com Services: services.neiljesani.com Neil Jesani Advisors, Inc.+1 Instagram: @neiljesani Instagram X (Twitter): @neiljesani X (formerly Twitter) LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/neiljesani LinkedIn+1 Facebook: facebook.com/neiljesaniadvisors Facebook YouTube: Neil Jesani Advisors channel/videos YouTube+1 Email: hello@neiljesani.com Looking to hire smarter? ZipRecruiter uses powerful technology to match you with top talent fast — no more sifting through a stack of weak resumes. 4 out of 5 employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it FREE at ZipRecruiter.com/WORK ZipRecruiter — the smartest way to hire.   About Justin: After investing in real estate for over 18 years and almost 3000 deals done, Justin has created a business that generates 7 figures in active income through wholesaling and fix and flipping as well as accumulating millions of dollars of rental properties including 5 apartment buildings, 50+ single family homes, and 1 storage facility Justins longevity in real estate is due to his ability to look around the corners, adapt to changing markets, perfecting Raising private capital, and focusing on lead generation which allows him to not just wholesale and fix & flip, but also accumulate wealth through long term holds. His success in real estate led him to start The Entrepreneur DNA podcast and The Science Of Flipping podcast and education company, and REI LIVE where he's actively doing deals with members. He has coached and mentored thousands of aspiring and active investors over the last decade. Connect with Justin: Instagram: @thejustincolby YouTube: Justin Colby TikTok: @justincolbytsof LinkedIn: Justin Colby Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hosts Justin McNamera and Eric Sarinin discuss the Certified Financial Planner (CFP) designation. They explain that a CFP is a generalist financial professional with a broad understanding across six core financial planning modules: financial planning principles, insurance, income tax planning, retirement planning, investments, and estate planning. The hosts emphasize the fiduciary duty of CFPs to always act in clients' best interests and that while the curriculum covers a vast array of topics, real-world application often focuses on specific client needs. They also touch on the rigorous exam and experience requirements to become a CFP, highlighting its value in providing comprehensive financial advice. Justin McNamara, CFP® is a Certified Financial Planner with passion for investment strategy and selection. Works with small businesses and owners, parents of college-bound kids, job changers, pre- and post-retirees. To schedule a visit with the team at McNamara Financial, be sure to visit: https://mcnamarafinancial.com/contact McNamara Financial is an Independent, family-owned, fee-only investment management and financial planning firm, serving individuals and families on the South Shore and beyond for over 30 years. COME SEE WHAT IT'S LIKE TO WORK WITH A FIDUCIARY. http://mcnamarafinancial.com/

In this episode, Alpine Intel Senior Account Manager Chris Nichols is joined by National Fire Experts Certified Fire Protection Specialists (CFPS) Ted Forbes and Ryan Bain to discuss why it's important to evaluate fire suppression systems following a fire incident. You'll understand the difference between the certified fire investigators who determine origin and cause and the fire protection specialists who analyze whether fire suppression systems prevented or failed to prevent the spread of a fire. This can help adjusters determine what may have caused additional losses and if there may be other concerns at a property.Discussed in This Episode:The roles of Certified Fire Protection Specialists and certified fire investigators When during the claims process an adjuster should call for a CFPS How CFPS investigations can be done virtually Different types of Automatic Extinguishing Systems How location and codes impact findingsStories from the field about CFPS investigationsAdditional Resources:Alpine Intel Resource Page: https://bit.ly/476JtDRNational Fire Experts: https://bit.ly/3J7i4YcInvestigating Fire Suppression Systems After Commercial Fires: https://bit.ly/3H1uJvmCertified Fire Protection Specialist Case Study: Investigating a Restaurant Fire: https://bit.ly/4oypsMK5 Questions to Ask After a Kitchen Fire: https://bit.ly/4lk1QskAdjuster's Glossary of Fire Investigation Terms Guide: https://bit.ly/4ftTnS0

▶THIS IS GROSSSS- we fully dive into her personal life and I find out exactly how many people she cheated with

▶We fight and fight and fight, but we help and call her boss to confront her... watch here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay Don't overcomplicate this crap! All you need is an automated / SIMPLE budget. This comes with automatic account connections, my budget-friendly cookbook, an online community, and exclusive discounts on my products- change your financial future *NOW* ▶▶▶ *AND REMEMBER* those who sign up for Simpler Budget Premium *annual* get a signed versions of the Cook Book and Simpler Budget Founders Edition Journal, just send proof of annual here: https://tally.so/r/3xzPq5 Build credit fast and get your first month FREE at https://getkikoff.com/caleb today. Thanks to Kikoff for sponsoring us! Go to https://meetfabric.com/CALEB and apply today, risk-free Start your FREE trial at ShipStation.com/caleb ▶▶▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay ▶ Watch this episode's *POST* *SHOW* + get *MORE* Financial Audit here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ___________________________________________ ▶EDUCATION: *FINANAL LOW PRICE CHANCE* 1. *LAST CALL FOR 40% OFF TOTAL DISCOUNT* Bundle my budgeting, debt, investing and real estate program https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ 2. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* The best budgeting program online: https://calebhammer.com/budget 3. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* Get my investing class and I'll give you a $100 moomoo cash reward: https://calebhammer.com/investing 4. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* Win with GOOD debt and get out of BAD debt correctly, learn in my debt program: https://calebhammer.com/formula 5. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* Everything you need for buying your first home to buy your first investment property: https://calebhammer.com/realestate/ 6. Get your own free Hammer Financial Score: https://www.calebhammer.com ___________________________________________ ▶RESOURCES 1. Checking & Savings: Get up to 3.80% APY, pay no account fees, and earn up to $300 when you sign up and set up direct deposits. Terms apply: https://creator.sofi.com/c/5535481/2068695/19219?adcampaignid=bank&adnetwork=brand *affiliate link 2. Click this link https://j.moomoo.com/Caleb to get up to $150 in Cash Rewards from moomoo U.S when you make a qualified deposit + earn 8.1% on uninvested cash for a limited time for new users!! Terms and Conditions apply. Securities are offered through Moomoo Financial Inc. (MFI), Member FINRA/SIPC. The creator is a paid influencer and is not affiliated with MFI and their experiences may not be representative of other moomoo users. Investing is risky. 3. Get $20 from Acorns for free: sign up to get your bonus https://acorns.com/caleb 4. CourseCareers: Land a high-paying job with no experience or degree by going through an affordable online course https://coursecareers.com/CalebHammer 5. The credit building debit card: First 100,000 people to sign up for Fizz with code: HAMMER10 get $10: https://www.joinfizz.com/caleb (paid ad) 6. Advising: Book your free strategy session https://dmnmny.co/caleb to work with Adrianna or any of the other CFPs at Domain Money today! 7. Helium Mobile: save a ton on your phone bill, sign up and get a FREE plan when using promo code CALEB https://hellohelium.com/ 8. Online security: Protect your online privacy and security NOW and for free by following my link Aura: https://aura.com/hammer 9. Therapy: Make SonderMind your mental health home in 2025. Sign up at: https://pages.sondermind.com/caleb/ 10. Build you own stan store: https://www.stan.store/?ref=CalebHammer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I had to kick him off... and then the producers come in and tell me even *MORE* - texes, mug throwing, ENDLESS BS!!!! Watch here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay Don't overcomplicate this crap! All you need is an automated / SIMPLE budget. This comes with automatic account connections, my budget-friendly cookbook, an online community, and exclusive discounts on my products- change your financial future *NOW* ▶▶▶ *AND REMEMBER* those who sign up for Simpler Budget Premium *annual* get a signed versions of the Cook Book and Simpler Budget Founders Edition Journal, just send proof of annual here: https://tally.so/r/3xzPq5 Use Yrefy to refinance your private student loans today at: https://yrefy.com/hammer or call (888) Yrefy-78 You're 30 seconds away from being debt free with PDS Debt. Get your free assessment and find the best option for you at https://PDSDebt.com/hammer ▶▶▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay ▶ Watch this episode's *POST* *SHOW* + get *MORE* Financial Audit here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ___________________________________________ ▶EDUCATION: *FINANAL LOW PRICE CHANCE* 1. *LAST CALL FOR 40% OFF TOTAL DISCOUNT* Bundle my budgeting, debt, investing and real estate program https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ 2. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* The best budgeting program online: https://calebhammer.com/budget 3. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* Get my investing class and I'll give you a $100 moomoo cash reward: https://calebhammer.com/investing 4. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* Win with GOOD debt and get out of BAD debt correctly, learn in my debt program: https://calebhammer.com/formula 5. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* Everything you need for buying your first home to buy your first investment property: https://calebhammer.com/realestate/ 6. Get your own free Hammer Financial Score: https://www.calebhammer.com ___________________________________________ ▶RESOURCES 1. Checking & Savings: Get up to 3.80% APY, pay no account fees, and earn up to $300 when you sign up and set up direct deposits. Terms apply: https://creator.sofi.com/c/5535481/2068695/19219?adcampaignid=bank&adnetwork=brand *affiliate link 2. Click this link https://j.moomoo.com/Caleb to get up to $150 in Cash Rewards from moomoo U.S when you make a qualified deposit + earn 8.1% on uninvested cash for a limited time for new users!! Terms and Conditions apply. Securities are offered through Moomoo Financial Inc. (MFI), Member FINRA/SIPC. The creator is a paid influencer and is not affiliated with MFI and their experiences may not be representative of other moomoo users. Investing is risky. 3. Get $20 from Acorns for free: sign up to get your bonus https://acorns.com/caleb 4. CourseCareers: Land a high-paying job with no experience or degree by going through an affordable online course https://coursecareers.com/CalebHammer 5. The credit building debit card: First 100,000 people to sign up for Fizz with code: HAMMER10 get $10: https://www.joinfizz.com/caleb (paid ad) 6. Advising: Book your free strategy session https://dmnmny.co/caleb to work with Adrianna or any of the other CFPs at Domain Money today! 7. Helium Mobile: save a ton on your phone bill, sign up and get a FREE plan when using promo code CALEB https://hellohelium.com/ 8. Online security: Protect your online privacy and security NOW and for free by following my link Aura: https://aura.com/hammer 9. Therapy: Make SonderMind your mental health home in 2025. Sign up at: https://pages.sondermind.com/caleb/ 10. Build you own stan store: https://www.stan.store/?ref=CalebHammer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

▶SHE CHOSE TO SUPPORT TAYLOR SWIFT OVER HER OWN MOM, so freaking gross!!! Watch here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay Don't overcomplicate this crap! All you need is an automated / SIMPLE budget. This comes with automatic account connections, my budget-friendly cookbook, an online community, and exclusive discounts on my products- change your financial future *NOW* ▶▶▶ *AND REMEMBER* those who sign up for Simpler Budget Premium *annual* get a signed versions of the Cook Book and Simpler Budget Founders Edition Journal, just send proof of annual here: https://tally.so/r/3xzPq5 Use Yrefy to refinance your private student loans today at: https://yrefy.com/hammer or call (888) Yrefy-78 Get 10% off your perfect pair of boots with Tecovas, at https://Tecovas.com/HAMMER ▶▶▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay ▶ Watch this episode's *POST* *SHOW* + get *MORE* Financial Audit here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ___________________________________________ ▶EDUCATION: *FINANAL LOW PRICE CHANCE* 1. *LAST CALL FOR 40% OFF TOTAL DISCOUNT* Bundle my budgeting, debt, investing and real estate program https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ 2. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* The best budgeting program online: https://calebhammer.com/budget 3. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* Get my investing class and I'll give you a $100 moomoo cash reward: https://calebhammer.com/investing 4. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* Win with GOOD debt and get out of BAD debt correctly, learn in my debt program: https://calebhammer.com/formula 5. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* Everything you need for buying your first home to buy your first investment property: https://calebhammer.com/realestate/ 6. Get your own free Hammer Financial Score: https://www.calebhammer.com ___________________________________________ ▶RESOURCES 1. Checking & Savings: Get up to 3.80% APY, pay no account fees, and earn up to $300 when you sign up and set up direct deposits. Terms apply: https://creator.sofi.com/c/5535481/2068695/19219?adcampaignid=bank&adnetwork=brand *affiliate link 2. Click this link https://j.moomoo.com/Caleb to get up to $150 in Cash Rewards from moomoo U.S when you make a qualified deposit + earn 8.1% on uninvested cash for a limited time for new users!! Terms and Conditions apply. Securities are offered through Moomoo Financial Inc. (MFI), Member FINRA/SIPC. The creator is a paid influencer and is not affiliated with MFI and their experiences may not be representative of other moomoo users. Investing is risky. 3. Get $20 from Acorns for free: sign up to get your bonus https://acorns.com/caleb 4. CourseCareers: Land a high-paying job with no experience or degree by going through an affordable online course https://coursecareers.com/CalebHammer 5. The credit building debit card: First 100,000 people to sign up for Fizz with code: HAMMER10 get $10: https://www.joinfizz.com/caleb (paid ad) 6. Advising: Book your free strategy session https://dmnmny.co/caleb to work with Adrianna or any of the other CFPs at Domain Money today! 7. Helium Mobile: save a ton on your phone bill, sign up and get a FREE plan when using promo code CALEB https://hellohelium.com/ 8. Online security: Protect your online privacy and security NOW and for free by following my link Aura: https://aura.com/hammer 9. Therapy: Make SonderMind your mental health home in 2025. Sign up at: https://pages.sondermind.com/caleb/ 10. Build you own stan store: https://www.stan.store/?ref=CalebHammer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

▶This is INANE- I bring the wife into the post-show, and it goes *NUCLEAR* - Watch here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay Don't overcomplicate this crap! All you need is an automated / SIMPLE budget. This comes with automatic account connections, my budget-friendly cookbook, an online community, and exclusive discounts on my products- change your financial future *NOW* ▶▶▶ *AND REMEMBER* those who sign up for Simpler Budget Premium *annual* get a signed versions of the Cook Book and Simpler Budget Founders Edition Journal, just send proof of annual here: https://tally.so/r/3xzPq5 Use Yrefy to refinance your private student loans today at: https://yrefy.com/hammer or call (888) Yrefy-78 Want an inside look at my investment portfolio? Follow me on Blossom Social to see how it's broken down!

Go to my sponsor https://aura.com/hammer to get a 14-day free trial and see if any of your data has been exposed. ▶We get to go into the crazy X-rated details in the post-show that would get the main episode de-monetized- watch here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay Don't overcomplicate this crap! All you need is an automated / SIMPLE budget. This comes with automatic account connections, my budget-friendly cookbook, an online community, and exclusive discounts on my products- change your financial future *NOW* ▶▶▶ *AND REMEMBER* those who sign up for Simpler Budget Premium *annual* get a signed versions of the Cook Book and Simpler Budget Founders Edition Journal, just send proof of annual here: https://tally.so/r/3xzPq5 Roll over your 401(k) at https://hicapitalize.com/caleb and see site for full terms. This video is sponsored by Capitalize! #sponsored  @hiCapitalize  ▶▶▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay ▶ Watch this episode's *POST* *SHOW* + get *MORE* Financial Audit here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ___________________________________________ ▶EDUCATION: *FINANAL LOW PRICE CHANCE* 1. *LAST CALL FOR 40% OFF TOTAL DISCOUNT* Bundle my budgeting, debt, investing and real estate program https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ 2. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* The best budgeting program online: https://calebhammer.com/budget 3. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* Get my investing class and I'll give you a $100 moomoo cash reward: https://calebhammer.com/investing 4. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* Win with GOOD debt and get out of BAD debt correctly, learn in my debt program: https://calebhammer.com/formula 5. *LAST CALL FOR 25% OFF* Everything you need for buying your first home to buy your first investment property: https://calebhammer.com/realestate/ 6. Get your own free Hammer Financial Score: https://www.calebhammer.com ___________________________________________ ▶RESOURCES 1. Checking & Savings: Get up to 3.80% APY, pay no account fees, and earn up to $300 when you sign up and set up direct deposits. Terms apply: https://creator.sofi.com/c/5535481/2068695/19219?adcampaignid=bank&adnetwork=brand *affiliate link 2. Click this link https://j.moomoo.com/Caleb to get up to $150 in Cash Rewards from moomoo U.S when you make a qualified deposit + earn 8.1% on uninvested cash for a limited time for new users!! Terms and Conditions apply. Securities are offered through Moomoo Financial Inc. (MFI), Member FINRA/SIPC. The creator is a paid influencer and is not affiliated with MFI and their experiences may not be representative of other moomoo users. Investing is risky. 3. Get $20 from Acorns for free: sign up to get your bonus https://acorns.com/caleb 4. CourseCareers: Land a high-paying job with no experience or degree by going through an affordable online course https://coursecareers.com/CalebHammer 5. The credit building debit card: First 100,000 people to sign up for Fizz with code: HAMMER10 get $10: https://www.joinfizz.com/caleb (paid ad) 6. Advising: Book your free strategy session https://dmnmny.co/caleb to work with Adrianna or any of the other CFPs at Domain Money today! 7. Helium Mobile: save a ton on your phone bill, sign up and get a FREE plan when using promo code CALEB https://hellohelium.com/ 9. Therapy: Make SonderMind your mental health home in 2025. Sign up at: https://pages.sondermind.com/caleb/ 10. Build you own stan store: https://www.stan.store/?ref=CalebHammer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

▶Okay... I need to call the husband and get them to confront the truth. Watch here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay Don't overcomplicate this crap! All you need is an automated / SIMPLE budget. This comes with automatic account connections, my budget-friendly cookbook, an online community, and exclusive discounts on my products- change your financial future *NOW* ▶▶▶ *AND REMEMBER* those who sign up for Simpler Budget Premium *annual* get a signed versions of the Cook Book and Simpler Budget Founders Edition Journal, just send proof of annual here: https://tally.so/r/3xzPq5 Use Yrefy to refinance your private student loans today at: https://yrefy.com/hammer or call (888) Yrefy-78 Get an exclusive HighLevel 30-day trial: https://gohighlevel.com/calebhammer ▶▶▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay ▶ Watch this episode's *POST* *SHOW* + get *MORE* Financial Audit here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ___________________________________________ ▶EDUCATION: Bundle is 15% off! 1. Bundle my budgeting, debt, investing and real estate program for *15%* *off* : https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ 2. The best budgeting program online: https://calebhammer.com/budget 3. Get my investing class and I'll give you a $100 moomoo cash reward: https://calebhammer.com/investing 4. Win with GOOD debt and get out of BAD debt correctly, learn in my debt program: https://calebhammer.com/formula 5. Everything you need for buying your first home to buying your first investment property: https://calebhammer.com/realestate/ 6. Get your own free Hammer Financial Score: https://www.calebhammer.com ___________________________________________ ▶RESOURCES 1. Checking & Savings: Get up to 3.80% APY, pay no account fees, and earn up to $300 when you sign up and set up direct deposits. Terms apply: https://creator.sofi.com/c/5535481/2068695/19219?adcampaignid=bank&adnetwork=brand *affiliate link 2. Click this link https://j.moomoo.com/Caleb to get up to $150 in Cash Rewards from moomoo U.S when you make a qualified deposit + earn 8.1% on uninvested cash for a limited time for new users!! Terms and Conditions apply. Securities are offered through Moomoo Financial Inc. (MFI), Member FINRA/SIPC. The creator is a paid influencer and is not affiliated with MFI and their experiences may not be representative of other moomoo users. Investing is risky. 3. Get $20 from Acorns for free: sign up to get your bonus https://acorns.com/caleb 4. CourseCareers: Land a high-paying job with no experience or degree by going through an affordable online course https://coursecareers.com/CalebHammer 5. The credit building debit card: First 100,000 people to sign up for Fizz with code: HAMMER10 get $10: https://www.joinfizz.com/caleb (paid ad) 6. Advising: Book your free strategy session https://dmnmny.co/caleb to work with Adrianna or any of the other CFPs at Domain Money today! 7. Helium Mobile: save a ton on your phone bill, sign up and get a FREE plan when using promo code CALEB https://hellohelium.com/ 8. Online security: Protect your online privacy and security NOW and for free by following my link Aura: https://aura.com/hammer 9. Therapy: Make SonderMind your mental health home in 2025. Sign up at: https://pages.sondermind.com/caleb/ 10. Build you own stan store: https://www.stan.store/?ref=CalebHammer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

▶This is INSANE... apparently he's been convincing people to "invest" in his business... he's completely scamming them. I have to confront him. Watch here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay Don't overcomplicate this crap! All you need is an automated / SIMPLE budget. This comes with automatic account connections, my budget-friendly cookbook, an online community, and exclusive discounts on my products- change your financial future *NOW* ▶▶▶▶ *AND REMEMBER* those who sign up for Simpler Budget Premium *annual* get a signed versions of the Cook Book and Simpler Budget Founders Edition Journal, just send proof of annual here: https://tally.so/r/3xzPq5 Use the Caleb Hammer credit card finder for free today to find the credit card for your needs, powered by Agent.Ai : https://agent.ai/agent/Caleb-Hammer-Credit-Card-Finder Download the CFO's guide to AI and Machine Learning for FREE at https://netsuite.com/HAMMER Click this link https://j.moomoo.com/Caleb to get up to $150 in Cash Rewards from moomoo U.S when you make a qualified deposit + earn 8.1% on uninvested cash for a limited time for new users!! Terms and Conditions apply. Securities are offered through Moomoo Financial Inc. (MFI), Member FINRA/SIPC. The creator is a paid influencer and is not affiliated with MFI and their experiences may not be representative of other moomoo users. Investing is risky. Any portfolio composition or transaction data is provided on a delay and may be incomplete. This material is for informational use only and is not a recommendation. All company analysis information is provided by third parties and not by Moomoo Financial Inc. Past performance does not guarantee future results. ▶▶▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay ▶ Watch this episode's *POST* *SHOW* + get *MORE* Financial Audit here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶EDUCATION: Bundle is 15% off! 1. Bundle my budgeting, debt, investing and real estate program for *15%* *off* : https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ 2. The best budgeting program online: https://calebhammer.com/budget 3. Get my investing class and I'll give you a $100 moomoo cash reward: https://calebhammer.com/investing 4. Win with GOOD debt and get out of BAD debt correctly, learn in my debt program: https://calebhammer.com/formula 5. Everything you need for buying your first home to buying your first investment property: https://calebhammer.com/realestate/ 6. Get your own free Hammer Financial Score: [https://www.calebhammer.com](https://www.calebhammer.com/) _______________________ 1. Checking & Savings: Get up to 3.80% APY, pay no account fees, and earn up to $300 when you sign up and set up direct deposits. Terms apply: https://creator.sofi.com/c/5535481/2068695/19219?adcampaignid=bank&adnetwork=brand *affiliate link 3) Get $20 from Acorns for free: sign up to get your bonus https://acorns.com/caleb 4) CourseCareers: Land a high-paying job with no experience or degree by going through an affordable online course: https://coursecareers.com/a/calebhammer 5) The credit building debit card: First 100,000 people to sign up for Fizz with code: HAMMER10 get $10: https://www.joinfizz.com/caleb (paid ad) 6) Advising: Book your free strategy session https://dmnmny.co/caleb to work with Adrianna or any of the other CFPs at Domain Money today! 7) Helium Mobile: save a ton on your phone bill, sign up and get a FREE plan when using promo code CALEB https://hellohelium.com/ 8) Online security: Protect your online privacy and security NOW and for free by following my link Aura: https://aura.com/hammer 9) Therapy: Make SonderMind your mental health home in 2025. Sign up at: https://pages.sondermind.com/caleb/ 10) Build you own stan store: https://www.stan.store/?ref=CalebHammer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

▶ *FINAL DAY* I'm super excited to be launching my MUCH ASKED FOR real estate program (low launch price until end of month) https://calebhammer.com/realestate *OR* to sweeten the deal, my 4-class bundle is now nearly *40% off* !!!!!! Check it out here: https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ ▶It's time to discuss the things with them that would get us demonetized... the wild crazy stuff. Watch in todays Post Show: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay Don't overcomplicate this crap! All you need is an automated / SIMPLE budget. This comes with automatic account connections, my budget-friendly cookbook, an online community, and exclusive discounts on my products- change your financial future *NOW* ▶▶▶▶ *AND REMEMBER* those who sign up for Simpler Budget Premium *annual* get a signed versions of the Cook Book and Simpler Budget Founders Edition Journal, just send proof of annual here: https://tally.so/r/3xzPq5

▶ *MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT* I'm super excited to be launching my MUCH ASKED FOR real estate program (low launch price until end of month) https://calebhammer.com/realestate *OR* to sweeten the deal, my 4-class bundle is now nearly *40% off* !!!!!! Check it out here: https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ ▶Well... this is it... they fully break down and admit they don't even want to be together anymore in todays Post Show: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay Don't overcomplicate this crap! All you need is an automated / SIMPLE budget. This comes with automatic account connections, my budget-friendly cookbook, an online community, and exclusive discounts on my products- change your financial future *NOW* ▶▶▶▶ *AND REMEMBER* those who sign up for Simpler Budget Premium *annual* get a signed versions of the Cook Book and Simpler Budget Founders Edition Journal, just send proof of annual here: https://tally.so/r/3xzPq5 Click this link https://j.moomoo.com/Caleb to get up to $150 in Cash Rewards from moomoo U.S when you make a qualified deposit + earn 8.1% on uninvested cash for a limited time for new users!! Terms and Conditions apply. Securities are offered through Moomoo Financial Inc. (MFI), Member FINRA/SIPC. The creator is a paid influencer and is not affiliated with MFI and their experiences may not be representative of other moomoo users. Investing is risky. The credit building debit card: The next 10,000 people to sign up for Fizz with code: HAMMER25 get an extra 25% off: https://www.joinfizz.com/caleb (paid ad; terms & restr apply) ▶▶▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay ▶ Watch this episode's *POST* *SHOW* + get *MORE* Financial Audit here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶EDUCATION: Bundle is 33% off and all courses are 20% off through March 3rd! 1) Bundle my budgeting, debt + investing program for *15%* *off* : https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ 2) The best budgeting program online: https://calebhammer.com/budget 3) Get my investing class and I'll give you a $100 moomoo cash reward: https://calebhammer.com/investing 4) Win with GOOD debt and get out of BAD debt correctly, learn in my debt program: https://calebhammer.com/formula 5) Get your own free Hammer Financial Score: https://www.calebhammer.com _______________________ ▶RESOURCES 1) Checking & Savings: Get up to 4.60% APY, pay no account fees, and earn up to $300 when you sign up and set up direct deposits. Terms apply: https://creator.sofi.com/c/5535481/2068695/19219?adcampaignid=bank&adnetwork=brand *affiliate link 3) Get $20 from Acorns for free: sign up to get your bonus https://acorns.com/caleb 4) CourseCareers: Land a high-paying job with no experience or degree by going through an affordable online course: https://coursecareers.com/a/calebhammer 5) The credit building debit card: First 100,000 people to sign up for Fizz with code: HAMMER10 get $10: https://www.joinfizz.com/caleb (paid ad) 6) Advising: Book your free strategy session https://dmnmny.co/caleb to work with Adrianna or any of the other CFPs at Domain Money today! 7) Helium Mobile: save a ton on your phone bill, sign up and get a FREE plan when using promo code CALEB https://hellohelium.com/ 8) Online security: Protect your online privacy and security NOW and for free by following my link Aura: https://aura.com/hammer 9) Therapy: Make SonderMind your mental health home in 2025. Sign up at: https://pages.sondermind.com/caleb/ 10) Build you own stan store: https://www.stan.store/?ref=CalebHammer _______________________ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

▶ *MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT* I'm super excited to be launching my MUCH ASKED FOR real estate program (low launch price until end of month) https://calebhammer.com/realestate *OR* to sweeten the deal, my 4-class bundle is now nearly *40% off* !!!!!! Check it out here: https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ ▶This is INSANE!!!!!! Dude just got rid of 4.2TB OF.... ummmm... pictures.... but guess what? His collection is starting back up again???Watch here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay Don't overcomplicate this crap! All you need is an automated / SIMPLE budget. This comes with automatic account connections, my budget-friendly cookbook, an online community, and exclusive discounts on my products- change your financial future *NOW* Click this link https://j.moomoo.com/Caleb to get up to $150 in Cash Rewards from moomoo U.S when you make a qualified deposit + earn 8.1% on uninvested cash for a limited time for new users!! Terms and Conditions apply. Securities are offered through Moomoo Financial Inc. (MFI), Member FINRA/SIPC. The creator is a paid influencer and is not affiliated with MFI and their experiences may not be representative of other moomoo users. Investing is risky. Any portfolio composition or transaction data is provided on a delay and may be incomplete. This material is for informational use only and is not a recommendation. All company analysis information is provided by third parties and not by Moomoo Financial Inc. Past performance does not guarantee future results. Go to https://meetfabric.com/CALEB and apply today, risk-free ▶▶▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay ▶ Watch this episode's *POST* *SHOW* + get *MORE* Financial Audit here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶EDUCATION: Bundle is 33% off and all courses are 20% off through March 3rd! 1) Bundle my budgeting, debt + investing program for *15%* *off* : https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ 2) The best budgeting program online: https://calebhammer.com/budget 3) Get my investing class and I'll give you a $100 moomoo cash reward: https://calebhammer.com/investing 4) Win with GOOD debt and get out of BAD debt correctly, learn in my debt program: https://calebhammer.com/formula 5) Get your own free Hammer Financial Score: https://www.calebhammer.com _______________________ ▶RESOURCES 1) Checking & Savings: Get up to 4.60% APY, pay no account fees, and earn up to $300 when you sign up and set up direct deposits. Terms apply: https://creator.sofi.com/c/5535481/2068695/19219?adcampaignid=bank&adnetwork=brand *affiliate link 3) Get $20 from Acorns for free: sign up to get your bonus https://acorns.com/caleb 4) CourseCareers: Land a high-paying job with no experience or degree by going through an affordable online course: https://coursecareers.com/a/calebhammer 5) The credit building debit card: First 100,000 people to sign up for Fizz with code: HAMMER10 get $10: https://www.joinfizz.com/caleb (paid ad) 6) Advising: Book your free strategy session https://dmnmny.co/caleb to work with Adrianna or any of the other CFPs at Domain Money today! 7) Helium Mobile: save a ton on your phone bill, sign up and get a FREE plan when using promo code CALEB https://hellohelium.com/ 8) Online security: Protect your online privacy and security NOW and for free by following my link Aura: https://aura.com/hammer 9) Therapy: Make SonderMind your mental health home in 2025. Sign up at: https://pages.sondermind.com/caleb/ 10) Build you own stan store: https://www.stan.store/?ref=CalebHammer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

▶ *MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT* I'm super excited to be launching my MUCH ASKED FOR real estate program (low launch price until end of month) https://calebhammer.com/realestate *OR* to sweeten the deal, my 4-class bundle is now nearly *40% off* !!!!!! Check it out here: https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ ▶But WAIT, the system is against them, right?! well... apparently they spend all their money on booze. I expose them in the post show, watch here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶Download my *budgeting app* today: *Apple:* https://apple.co/4iChGhr *Google Play:* https://bit.ly/sb-googleplay Don't overcomplicate this crap! All you need is an automated / SIMPLE budget. This comes with automatic account connections, my budget-friendly cookbook, an online community, and exclusive discounts on my products- change your financial future *NOW* Use Yrefy to refinance your private student loans today at: https://yrefy.com/hammer or call (888) Yrefy-78 Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and get a $75 SPONSORED JOB CREDIT to get your jobs more visibility at https://indeed.com/caleb Terms and conditions apply. Hiring? Indeed is all you need. For a 20% discount on incredible earbuds use: https://buyraycon.com/calebhammer ▶▶▶ Download my budgeting app today: https://calebhammer.com/app ▶ Watch this episode's *POST* *SHOW* + get *MORE* Financial Audit here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶EDUCATION: Bundle is 33% off and all courses are 20% off through March 3rd! 1) Bundle my budgeting, debt + investing program for *15%* *off* : https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ 2) The best budgeting program online: https://calebhammer.com/budget 3) Get my investing class and I'll give you a $100 moomoo cash reward: https://calebhammer.com/investing 4) Win with GOOD debt and get out of BAD debt correctly, learn in my debt program: https://calebhammer.com/formula 5) Get your own free Hammer Financial Score: https://www.calebhammer.com _______________________ ▶RESOURCES 1) Checking & Savings: Get up to 4.60% APY, pay no account fees, and earn up to $300 when you sign up and set up direct deposits. Terms apply: https://creator.sofi.com/c/5535481/2068695/19219?adcampaignid=bank&adnetwork=brand *affiliate link 2) Click this link https://j.moomoo.com/Caleb to get up to $150 in Cash Rewards from moomoo U.S when you make a qualified deposit + earn 8.1% on uninvested cash for a limited time for new users!! Terms and Conditions apply. Securities are offered through Moomoo Financial Inc. (MFI), Member FINRA/SIPC. The creator is a paid influencer and is not affiliated with MFI and their experiences may not be representative of other moomoo users. Investing is risky. 3) Get $20 from Acorns for free: sign up to get your bonus https://acorns.com/caleb 4) CourseCareers: Land a high-paying job with no experience or degree by going through an affordable online course: https://coursecareers.com/a/calebhammer 5) The credit building debit card: First 100,000 people to sign up for Fizz with code: HAMMER10 get $10: https://www.joinfizz.com/caleb (paid ad) 6) Advising: Book your free strategy session https://dmnmny.co/caleb to work with Adrianna or any of the other CFPs at Domain Money today! 7) Helium Mobile: save a ton on your phone bill, sign up and get a FREE plan when using promo code CALEB https://hellohelium.com/ 8) Online security: Protect your online privacy and security NOW and for free by following my link Aura: https://aura.com/hammer 9) Therapy: Make SonderMind your mental health home in 2025. Sign up at: https://pages.sondermind.com/caleb/ 10) Build you own stan store: https://www.stan.store/?ref=CalebHammer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Try Rocket Money for free: https://RocketMoney.com/caleb ▶ *MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT* I'm super excited to be launching my MUCH ASKED FOR real estate program (low launch price until end of month) https://calebhammer.com/realestate *OR* to sweeten the deal, my 4-class bundle is now nearly *40% off* !!!!!! Check it out here: https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ ▶OH I FOUND OUT SHE'S NOT EVEN PAYING HER TAXES.... ughhh, post show, watch here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶ Download my budgeting app today: https://calebhammer.com/app - don't overcomplicate this crap! All you need is an automated and SIMPLE budget. This comes with live CFP sessions, weekly classes, an online community, automatic account connections, my budget-friendly cookbooks, and exclusive discounts on my products Check it out :) Helium Mobile is the only phone plan with plans starting at FREE that reward you. Break free from Big Telco and get access to Helium Mobile with the code CALEB: hellohelium.com ▶▶▶ Download my budgeting app today: https://calebhammer.com/app ▶ Watch this episode's *POST* *SHOW* + get *MORE* Financial Audit here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶EDUCATION: Bundle is 33% off and all courses are 20% off through March 3rd! 1) Bundle my budgeting, debt + investing program for *15%* *off* : https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ 2) The best budgeting program online: https://calebhammer.com/budget 3) Get my investing class and I'll give you a $100 moomoo cash reward: https://calebhammer.com/investing 4) Win with GOOD debt and get out of BAD debt correctly, learn in my debt program: https://calebhammer.com/formula 5) Get your own free Hammer Financial Score: https://www.calebhammer.com _______________________ ▶RESOURCES 1) Checking & Savings: Get up to 4.60% APY, pay no account fees, and earn up to $300 when you sign up and set up direct deposits. Terms apply: https://creator.sofi.com/c/5535481/2068695/19219?adcampaignid=bank&adnetwork=brand *affiliate link 2) Click this link https://j.moomoo.com/Caleb to get up to 30 free stocks from moomoo U.S when you make a qualified deposit + earn 8.1% on uninvested cash for a limited time for new users!! Terms & Conditions Apply Securities are offered through Moomoo Financial Inc., Member FINRA/SIPC. The creator is a paid influencer and is not affiliated with MFI and their experiences may not be representative of other moomoo users. Investing is risky. Visit moomoo.com/us/support/topic4_222 for information on the Cash Sweep Program. 3) Get $20 from Acorns for free: sign up to get your bonus https://acorns.com/caleb 4) CourseCareers: Land a high-paying job with no experience or degree by going through an affordable online course: https://coursecareers.com/a/calebhammer 5) The credit building debit card: First 100,000 people to sign up for Fizz with code: HAMMER10 get $10: https://www.joinfizz.com/caleb (paid ad) 6) Advising: Book your free strategy session https://dmnmny.co/caleb to work with Adrianna or any of the other CFPs at Domain Money today! 7) Helium Mobile: save a ton on your phone bill, sign up and get a FREE plan when using promo code CALEB https://hellohelium.com/ 8) Online security: Protect your online privacy and security NOW and for free by following my link Aura: https://aura.com/hammer 9) Therapy: Make SonderMind your mental health home in 2025. Sign up at: https://pages.sondermind.com/caleb/ 10) Build you own stan store: https://www.stan.store/?ref=CalebHammer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

▶ *MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT* I'm super excited to be launching my MUCH ASKED FOR real estate program (low launch price until end of month) https://calebhammer.com/realestate *OR* to sweeten the deal, my 4-class bundle is now nearly *40% off* !!!!!! Check it out here: https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ ▶ Download my budgeting app today: https://calebhammer.com/app - don't overcomplicate this crap! All you need is an automated and SIMPLE budget. This comes with live CFP sessions, weekly classes, an online community, automatic account connections, my budget-friendly cookbooks, and exclusive discounts on my products Check it out :) ▶This post show is crazzzyyyyy... he's pressuring women to... do very controversial things. He basically forces them to... WTF THIS IS INSANE watch here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join Use Yrefy to refinance your private student loans today at: https://www.yrefy.com/hammer or call (888) Yrefy-78 The credit building debit card: The next 10,000 people to sign up for Fizz with code: HAMMER25 get an extra 25% off: https://www.joinfizz.com/caleb (paid ad; terms & restrictions apply) ▶▶▶ Download my budgeting app today: https://calebhammer.com/app ▶ Watch this episode's *POST* *SHOW* + get *MORE* Financial Audit here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶EDUCATION: Bundle is 33% off and all courses are 20% off through March 3rd! 1) Bundle my budgeting, debt + investing program for *15%* *off* : https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ 2) The best budgeting program online: https://calebhammer.com/budget 3) Get my investing class and I'll give you a $100 moomoo cash reward: https://calebhammer.com/investing 4) Win with GOOD debt and get out of BAD debt correctly, learn in my debt program: https://calebhammer.com/formula 5) Get your own free Hammer Financial Score: https://www.calebhammer.com _______________________ ▶RESOURCES 1) Checking & Savings: Get up to 4.60% APY, pay no account fees, and earn up to $300 when you sign up and set up direct deposits. Terms apply: https://creator.sofi.com/c/5535481/2068695/19219?adcampaignid=bank&adnetwork=brand *affiliate link 2) Click this link https://j.moomoo.com/Caleb to get up to 30 free stocks from moomoo U.S when you make a qualified deposit + earn 8.1% on uninvested cash for a limited time for new users!! Terms & Conditions Apply Securities are offered through Moomoo Financial Inc., Member FINRA/SIPC. The creator is a paid influencer and is not affiliated with MFI and their experiences may not be representative of other moomoo users. Investing is risky. Visit moomoo.com/us/support/topic4_222 for information on the Cash Sweep Program. 3) Get $20 from Acorns for free: sign up to get your bonus https://acorns.com/caleb 4) CourseCareers: Land a high-paying job with no experience or degree by going through an affordable online course: https://coursecareers.com/a/calebhammer 5) The credit building debit card: First 100,000 people to sign up for Fizz with code: HAMMER10 get $10: https://www.joinfizz.com/caleb (paid ad) 6) Advising: Book your free strategy session https://dmnmny.co/caleb to work with Adrianna or any of the other CFPs at Domain Money today! 7) Helium Mobile: save a ton on your phone bill, sign up and get a FREE plan when using promo code CALEB https://hellohelium.com/ 8) Online security: Protect your online privacy and security NOW and for free by following my link Aura: https://aura.com/hammer 9) Therapy: Make SonderMind your mental health home in 2025. Sign up at: https://pages.sondermind.com/caleb/ 10) Build you own stan store: https://www.stan.store/?ref=CalebHammer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

▶ *MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT* I'm super excited to be launching my MUCH ASKED FOR real estate program (low launch price until end of month) https://calebhammer.com/realestate *OR* to sweeten the deal, my 4-class bundle is now nearly *40% off* !!!!!! Check it out here: https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ ▶This relationship is *toxic* ... he ameks her cry all the time and she calls him out for yelling at her- watch the post-show here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶ Download my budgeting app today: https://calebhammer.com/app - don't overcomplicate this crap! All you need is an automated and SIMPLE budget. This comes with live CFP sessions, weekly classes, an online community, automatic account connections, my budget-friendly cookbooks, and exclusive discounts on my products Check it out :) Use Yrefy to refinance your private student loans today at: yrefy.com/hammer or call (888) Yrefy-78 Get a 60-day free trial at https://www.shipstation.com/caleb. Thanks to ShipStation for sponsoring the show! ▶▶▶ Download my budgeting app today: https://calebhammer.com/app ▶ Watch this episode's *POST* *SHOW* + get *MORE* Financial Audit here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLe_q9axMaeTbjN0hy1Z9xA/join ▶EDUCATION: Bundle is 33% off and all courses are 20% off through March 3rd! 1) Bundle my budgeting, debt + investing program for *15%* *off* : https://calebhammer.com/classpack/ 2) The best budgeting program online: https://calebhammer.com/budget 3) Get my investing class and I'll give you a $100 moomoo cash reward: https://calebhammer.com/investing 4) Win with GOOD debt and get out of BAD debt correctly, learn in my debt program: https://calebhammer.com/formula 5) Get your own free Hammer Financial Score: https://www.calebhammer.com _______________________ ▶RESOURCES 1) Checking & Savings: Get up to 4.60% APY, pay no account fees, and earn up to $300 when you sign up and set up direct deposits. Terms apply: https://creator.sofi.com/c/5535481/2068695/19219?adcampaignid=bank&adnetwork=brand *affiliate link 2) Click this link https://j.moomoo.com/Caleb to get up to 30 free stocks from moomoo U.S when you make a qualified deposit + earn 8.1% on uninvested cash for a limited time for new users!! Terms & Conditions Apply Securities are offered through Moomoo Financial Inc., Member FINRA/SIPC. The creator is a paid influencer and is not affiliated with MFI and their experiences may not be representative of other moomoo users. Investing is risky. Visit moomoo.com/us/support/topic4_222 for information on the Cash Sweep Program. 3) Get $20 from Acorns for free: sign up to get your bonus https://acorns.com/caleb 4) CourseCareers: Land a high-paying job with no experience or degree by going through an affordable online course: https://coursecareers.com/a/calebhammer 5) The credit building debit card: First 100,000 people to sign up for Fizz with code: HAMMER10 get $10: https://www.joinfizz.com/caleb (paid ad) 6) Advising: Book your free strategy session https://dmnmny.co/caleb to work with Adrianna or any of the other CFPs at Domain Money today! 7) Helium Mobile: save a ton on your phone bill, sign up and get a FREE plan when using promo code CALEB https://hellohelium.com/ 8) Online security: Protect your online privacy and security NOW and for free by following my link Aura: https://aura.com/hammer 9) Therapy: Make SonderMind your mental health home in 2025. Sign up at: https://pages.sondermind.com/caleb/ 10) Build you own stan store: https://www.stan.store/?ref=CalebHammer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices