Podcast appearances and mentions of lisa dodson

Lisa Dodson has devoted her career to encouraging people to say yes to organ donation. Through a partnership with the Illinois High School Association, she's empowering 16 and 17 year olds to make their own decisions about organ donation through the Drive for Life Act.  In her personal life, Lisa is a proud donor wife. Learn more about the Drive for Life and Say Yes campaign with the Illinois High School Association here and here.Learn more about Gift of Hope Organ & Tissue Network here.

All too often we think about, or more accurately don't think about, the ripple effects of low-wage work on families beyond the thought that things must be tight. In this conversation, based on their important book, Getting Me Cheap: How Low Wage Work Traps Women and Girls in Poverty, Lisa Dodson, Amanda Freeman, and I discuss the implications not just in the present but in the future for those trapped in this deeply unjust cycle. When we think about who is providing the childcare, the elder care, the cleaning services and more that we rely on to keep life functioning in the ways we are accustomed to, it is often women being paid unlivable wages. But many of these women themselves have families and if they aren't there to fulfill the adult role because they are, often, working multiple jobs to make ends meet, the brunt of filling that gap falls to their children, usually the girls.  Dodson and Freeman explore the stories of the women they met, their realities, struggles, and aspirations, as they challenge us to confront and change what is a deeply unjust and flawed system in order to break the generational cycle of poverty and of parents who, as Dodson and Freeman describe, can't afford to buy their children a childhood.  This conversation made me think in deeper and different ways about the impact of societal inequities and, once again, made me question whether these are bugs or features.  It's an important book that leads us into an important conversation, one that challenges us to live into our oft-stated values around cherishing our children, not just some of them, all of them. About Amanda Freeman and Lisa Dodson: Amanda Freeman is a sociologist with research interests in poverty, social policy, gender, family and education. Her current work explores work family conflict for low income mothers. At the University of Hartford, Professor Freeman teaches a variety of courses including Social Welfare. Lisa Dodson is Research Professor Emeritus at Boston College. She's the author of the books, The Moral Underground: How Ordinary Americans Subvert an Unfair Economy, and Don't Call Us Out of Name. She lives in Portland, Oregon. For a written transcript of this conversation click here. Action Items:  From Amanda: 1) If you have people working in your home become aware of their lives, their struggles, and just engaging with them as fellow human beings. 2) Join organizations that advocate for domestic workers. 3) Challenge inequitable policies in your workplace that treat salaried and hourly workers differently when it comes to issues such as parental leave. From Lisa: 1) Have conversations about how these workers are compensated and treated in the workplace. 2) Listen to what these women have to say about their lives and the challenges they are facing and then do what we can to address the inequities that they are facing.  Credits: Harmonica music courtesy of a friend.

Content Warning: Family and domestic violence. This story was shared by Lisa Dodson, who escaped an abusive relationship and started a new life with her children. Still under constant threat and struggling to find a place to rent in the cost-of-living crisis, this is how Lisa found a light at the end of the tunnel. Funded by Anglicare WA and produced by Centre for Stories, Against All Odds is a collection of lived experiences of homelessness, housing insecurity and financial distress. These stories reflect on experiencing a broken system. Although these struggles happened many years ago for some of them, their stories were ironically recorded during Australia's cost-of-living crisis in 2023, which continues today. The public health issues of homelessness and poverty are as relevant as ever for many modern families. Here, our storytellers share what they believe needs to change about that system. Find out more at www.centreforstories.com.

Author Lisa Dodson stops by to discuss her newest release, The Bodyguard's Deadly Mission. Lisa is a National Bestselling Author and an Amazon #1 bestselling author with a remarkable portfolio of over nineteen novels. Her extensive work covers various genres, from Multicultural to Contemporary, Romantic Suspense to Sweet Romance, and Clean Read. Lisa, a hybrid author, has her novels published by both Harlequin and Kensington publishing houses and independently. She strives to create positive and relatable characters that readers can connect with. Lisa has functioned as a publicist and radio talk show host in the literary community. She has also worked with aspiring and published authors in marketing and content editing. Lisa lives in Raleigh, NC, is a Business Development Manager at a technology consulting firm, and is the mother of two adult children and a Maltipoo, Brinkley. Connect with Lisa on Social Media: https://sociatap.com/LisaDodson

Author Lisa Dodson stops by to discuss her newest release, The Bodyguard's Deadly Mission. Lisa is a National Bestselling Author and an Amazon #1 bestselling author with a remarkable portfolio of over nineteen novels. Her extensive work covers various genres, from Multicultural to Contemporary, Romantic Suspense to Sweet Romance, and Clean Read. Lisa, a hybrid author, has her novels published by both Harlequin and Kensington publishing houses and independently. She strives to create positive and relatable characters that readers can connect with. Lisa has functioned as a publicist and radio talk show host in the literary community. She has also worked with aspiring and published authors in marketing and content editing. Lisa lives in Raleigh, NC, is a Business Development Manager at a technology consulting firm, and is the mother of two adult children and a Maltipoo, Brinkley. Connect with Lisa on Social Media: https://sociatap.com/LisaDodson

FREE PROMO OPPORTUNITY FOR AUTHORS. The Cavalcade of Authors is hosting a free book promo event during the BWE in Chicago at McCormick Place during August 4-6, 2023. The free books will be available on the website for all three days, and all genres (except the one listed in the form), are welcome. You are able to use a simple Amazon link or a Books2Read link if your book will be free on all platforms. Promo graphics, text, link and hashtags will be sent to participating authors the week leading to the event. DEADLINE TO SUBMIT IS JULY 23.https://forms.gle/fjbTYrv3HN7DEjVY6Thank you for your interest and have an amazing day on purpose.

The pandemic put into stark relief the undue burden faced by working poor women in America. Many were laid off or had to quit for COVID-related reasons, such as school closures. Often, they struggled in low-paid jobs as essential workers, while facing greater demands at home. But even in the best of times, women in low-wage industries must cope with daunting challenges. In their new book Getting Me Cheap, sociologists Lisa Dodson and Amanda Freeman argue that the conveniences many Americans enjoy—things such as grocery delivery and nanny care—are made possible by the sacrifices of these women. The book reveals how discrimination, unpredictable work schedules, and lack of affordable childcare trap women in poverty and make “work-life balance” impossible. Join us as we hear from Dodson and Freeman about their research and possible solutions. SPEAKERS Lisa Dodson Research Professor Emerita, Boston College; Co-author, Getting Me Cheap: How Low Wage Work Traps Women and Girls in Poverty Amanda Freeman Assistant Professor of Sociology, University of Hartford; Writer and Researcher of Motherhood and Work; Co-author, Getting Me Cheap: How Low Wage Work Traps Women and Girls in Poverty Saru Jayaraman President, One Fair Wage; Director, Food Labor Research Center, University of California, Berkeley Bernice Yeung Managing Editor, The Investigative Reporting Program, University of California, Berkeley This program contains EXPLICIT language In response to the COVID-19 pandemic, we are currently hosting all of our live programming via YouTube live stream. This program was recorded via video conference on January 19th, 2023 by the Commonwealth Club of California. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

MAKE MORE MONEY. This is the number one piece of advice I give my clients about how to navigate money today. Sounds easy, and the climb is steep for so many women. In this episode, my guest, Lisa Dodson the co-author of Getting Me Cheap - How Low Wage Work Traps Women and Girls in Poverty and I are discussing how low wage traps women and girls into poverty and how we can break this trap. I'm looking forward to this conversation and I hope you join us. About my guest: Lisa Dodson is Research Professor Emerita at Boston College. She is the author of The Moral Underground: How Ordinary Americans Subvert an Unfair Economy and co-author (with Amanda Freeman) of Getting Me Cheap: How Low Wage Work Traps Women and Girls in Poverty (both from The New Press) and Don't Call Us Out of Name. She lives in Portland, Oregon.

On this week's 51%, we speak with sociologists Amanda Freeman and Lisa Dodson about their new book Getting Me Cheap: How Low-Wage Work Traps Women and Girls in Poverty. With hundreds of interviews and years of field work to pull from, Freeman and Dodson depict how women support some of America's most essential, but lowest-paying, industries – all while struggling to make ends meet for their own families. We also check back in with Amanda Hunter, executive director of the Barbara Lee Family Foundation, to discuss how several female candidates fared in the midterm elections. Guests: Dr. Amanda Freeman, assistant professor of sociology at the University of Hartford, and Lisa Dodson, research professor emerita at Boston College, authors of Getting Me Cheap: How Low-Wage Work Traps Women and Girls in Poverty; Amanda Hunter, executive director of the Barbara Lee Family Foundation 51% is a national production of WAMC Northeast Public Radio in Albany, New York. It's produced and hosted by Jesse King. Our associate producer is Jody Cowan, our executive producer is Dr. Alan Chartock, and our theme is “Lolita” by the Albany-based artist Girl Blue.

Former world-ranked WTA tennis player Lisa Dodson and Jack Broudy talk about the serve in tennis. Lisa has a new product called The Toss Master which helps a tennis player improve their different spin serves. Serve better and it opens up the game of tennis for you!

Lisa Dodson, born in New York, have almost 50 years of experience from coaching in addition to a professional career after she graduated from University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 1979. Lisa is still coaching tennis in New York and have previously been the director of tennis at many different clubs in California, Florida and New York. After an injury 2009 Lisa developed her tennis serve training tool and after 18 months of development, research and work the Servemaster was on the market.  In this episode we talk about:  - playing serve- and volley    - how to teach the serve and the importance of the grip  - the idea behind the ServeMaster  - why it's good to use different tools to teach right technique  - Lisa's new tool to be released, the TossMaster  www.linuspabaslinjen.com  www.houseofbontin.se

Interview: We talk to Dave Dastmalchian and John Hoogenakker about a special moment with F. Murray Abraham, finding friendship in a cutthroat environment, having substance abuse and authority issues, mind-f***ery, the cloistered nature of conservatories, using skills gained at TTS on set, taking an eclectic approach to acting, the tricky dance of teaching an art form, PR Casting, Does a Tiger Wear a Necktie, when William Burroughs discovered a copy of the Fledgling Press, a zine which Dave created.FULL TRANSCRIPT:Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:08):I'm Jen Bosworth Ramirez.Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:10):and I'm Gina Pulice.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:11):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:15):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:20):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:29):So they concocted this plan to make A shelf in our library, like right above the door frame, that goes all the way around the room. So I am not kidding you. So, soJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:49):Pictures, pictures, put them on the website. Okay.Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:53):Here's the deal though? My son, my, my middle child is so smart. He has never helped us with these type of projects before, because he doesn't really like, he traditionally hasn't really liked working with his hands, but this time he wanted to, it was really his idea. He wanted to do it. And he's such a math brain that he insisted on doing heavy. Pre-planning like he made us model, not a, he's calling it a model. It's not really a model. he's like got a piece of paper. He drew plans for it. He did all kinds of measurements. He used. Yeah, it was great. And he goes, listen, if we don't plan it out like this, then we get halfway through and we run into a snag and then we stop working on it, which is exactly what the oldest one. And I have done on a number of projects, including building a full-sized Playhouse on our back -Yes ma'am yes. Ma'am. I spent thousands of dollars on wood and nails and power tools so that we could have this joint project of building a Playhouse. And we didn't think it through one single bit. We, we found some plans on the internet and we went through and we made it. I got, we got all the way to the roof and the roof is what did us in? We couldn't, we couldn't get up high enough on the thing. We didn't have a high enough ladder and it's not in a great enough position. We couldn't put the roof on it, sat there for a year. And then it was time for the bar mitzvah, which we were having the party at our house. So we had to, and we had to take the whole thing down and we never finished it. So the other one goes, listen, we're I don't want to do that. I don't want to go through all this work and give it up. So he planned it and boy did he plan it with an inch of his life and it's going up and it's looking great. And I will send you picturesJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:02:44):That is done. Oh my gosh. Merry Christmas. [inaudible] freaking Christmas. That's fantastic.Dave Dastmalchian (00:02:51):I have one other cute little story to tell you.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:02:55):I took, well, I told her, um, I told C's, um, hummus story is Sasha and Chrissy and Tilly. Oh. Saw them from afar. Um, we saw them outside. Uh, they're amazing. And they laughed so hard. It was. Yeah. So it's for people that don't know. I mean, we've probably said, I'd probably made you tell it like four times, but you, but my version, this is how I tell it is that, um, your daughter says, mom, what, what kind of stuff do they have to eat in prison? Do they have like bad food? And you're like, yeah, it's probably not that great. She goes like hummus? They cracked up anyway.Dave Dastmalchian (00:03:37):She's she's hilarious. So, um, I was sick yesterday and she came home from the bus. Oh, earlier in the day she had -I was taking her to school and this little girl had these really cute boots on these little there's some, some, Ugg, type boots. She's like, Oh, I love those boots. And I S and she had said something to me about it before. And I said, yeah, you know, I looked for those, but I couldn't, I don't see where they are. I, I, you know, I can't, I can't find any of the information for it. So she comes home yesterday. Oh, this is so sweet. She brings me a plate with sliced up bananas, um, something else, and the little container of yogurt that she got in her lunch that she brought home. Cause this is kind of sugary yogurt that I never buy for her Trix yogurt. And she covered it in saran wrap. And she wrote me a note. I get, well, note, and it's a picture of the two of us. And it said, mom, get, well soon. I love you. And you, and it says at the bottom turnover, turnover, they have such, she goes, I got the information about the boots!Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:04:53):I'm telling you. She's genius.Dave Dastmalchian (00:04:56):She writes, You can get them at col that's Kohl's or you could get them at Kohl's or, um, uh, TRG I T get at targetJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:05:12):She's genius.Dave Dastmalchian (00:05:14):She followed up this morning. She goes, so did you, did you check out Kohl'sSpeaker 4 (00:05:31):[inaudible]?Dave Dastmalchian (00:05:38):Hm. We've moved a lot. I mean, not as much as you, but we've moved a lot in the time that we've been together. 20 whatever years we probably moved, I don't know, 15 times and, or maybe less than that, but, uh, between 10 and 15 times. And we, one of the things that we lug around from place to place is a lot of mementos. A box of mementos turned into two boxes, turned into two boxes each. Now we have kids, they have their boxes. So we're at the point where not only because of this for other reasons, but we have to store all the mementos in a storage facility. This is the dumbest possible thing. I mean, it also has furniture from, Oh, it has furniture. But like, anyway, we store boxes in boxes. Probably those plastic tubs, you know, the big plastic tubs would probably have like six plastic tubs that are of mementos.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:06:40):Wow.Dave Dastmalchian (00:06:41):Aaron has, you know, the, the little plaque he got when he won a tennis tournament in eighth grade is it's like a lot of things. Okay. I've gotten better at paring things down. But then when you have kids, you feel like you shouldn't throw anything away because they're the ones who are going to be going through your stuff one day and who are going to be mad. If you didn't save all of their stuff. Now, of course you cannot save all of their stuff, but like, what's your stance on mementos? What do you keep? What do you toss? What's -do you feel guilty about it, et cetera?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:07:20):It's a great, that's a great topic. I, um, feel mixed. We have, so, yes, we've moved so much and we too have mementos. Um, there's the Marie Kondo, you know, that if it doesn't spark joy, but I don't really believe that. Um, I think people should, uh, do what they want to do for the most part. I don't subscribe to a minimalist thing, but I definitely feel like for everything you keep, you should throw out one thing. So, so, so that goes with clothes that goes, and it is really hard. Now, mementos are different because they have sentimental, they have sentimental value, but I'm remembering having to go through, uh, both dead parents' stuff. And most of it is garbage. Like most of them, most of it is like a lighter that my dad had that was engraved with someone's initials. That weren't his, why he probably stole it from somebody. But, um, but I was like, what, what, what? No. And it was a tremendous amount of emotional work to go through this stuff. And, um, yeah, I say get rid of, most of it. I get rid of most of it.Dave Dastmalchian (00:08:42):I mean, I think what it's about is, cause what, what I did with my dad is so when he died, I was right before I got married and he, so he didn't know that I got married or about any of my kids. So I think I really held onto stuff for kind of a long time, because it just felt like I didn't have time to grieve or process or whatever it is. So there are certain things that I, you know, you have your stages, like things you get rid of, like when Aaron's dad died, he came home wearing all of his father's clothes. He had his, and they were all too big pants and his shoes, well, that stuff has started to, it's been about a year, that stuff is starting to go away. So I remember the phases of getting rid of stuff. And it is something about like, you hold onto the, the stuff is like a placeholder for you doing your grieving. So it's like the more you do the work of going through the grieving that's then you, then you feel okay to get rid of the stuff. And the thing about what the kids is, I know something that they don't know, which is that it feels so precious to them now is not going to feel so precious to them. For example, when they go to college or move out and I say, we need to go through this stuff. Now we need to go through and figure out, you know, what you want. And I'm sure that they're going to want to get rid of a lot of stuff, but they also want to keep like, both boys did TaeKwonDo and went through their black belt. And the trophy for a black belt is like, as tall as a person, that's like five feet tall. Those are in storage. We went to storage to get out the Christmas stuff. And my oldest son, he picks up, he goes, this thing was really like a piece of junk. Like it's, you know, cause trophies are just made of plastic cheap metal. Yeah. So I, that was like, okay, you're going to want to get rid of this. That's a good thing. But with the smaller things, like really precious sentimental notes, I feel like keeping, but listen, not every kid or not, every person writes a card that's worth keeping, I'm sorry to say, butJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:10:58):Right. And what you don't and what, and I think what you're doing is by getting rid of the sub stuff is what you're actually doing is making your kids job easier when we all croak. So if you think about it that way, like I act, but they should be allowed maybe one tub each.Dave Dastmalchian (00:11:18):Right. And we shouldn't have to worry when it gets no, no, well, they don't, they only have one tub, but then they have things like the trophies or the other things that they don't want to get rid of. Yeah. I'm feeling like what we should do is it is a annual or at least every few years going through making sure this is still so, because it, it was only recently that the older two wanted to get rid of their schoolwork from kindergarten. Wow. Yeah. They really wanted to. And that's the other thing is like, if it is serving some emotional need, I cut it off. I don't want to cut off, but I also don't want to, I know how it is with the whole storage facility. We got a storage facility that's bigger than what we need. We're just going to fill it up like a goldfish, eating too much and filling up its bowlJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:12:05):And then their stomach explodes. Uh, but I was going to say something that you might do too, is if you're into any kind of ritual is w miles will burn. Um, we will burn stuff in a, in a, like a goodbye stuff. Like, um, if it's sentimental letters and stuff, now it, you know, there's not burning a kindergarten paper on, you know, aardvark, but, but if there's anything have some kind of ritual saying goodbye situation. Um, my sister and I, Oh my gosh. When we went to through the attic, there was a, like a 10 year period where everyone died. Right. And so we had 10 people's ashes. I'm not kidding you. My mother, my father, both three grandparents migrating at Ruth. It was crazy. So we didn't know what to do with all these ashes. We just dumped them in the garden. We are like, and we had a parade of ashes. We just had a ritual. We were like, goodbye, goodbye, aunt, Ruth goodbye. Then they all got mixed together, but we literally headed those cremations of like, not, it was like nine people, but I was like, so you don't want, you don't want stuff to accumulate that, that P that the kiddos are going to have to just go through and be like, I mean, the ashes were fine, but there was so much stuff that I was like, Oh my God, like pictures of people that you cannot name, those got to go. Yeah.Dave Dastmalchian (00:13:31):Right. What about though? Have you ever thrown something away? And then been like, Oh, I wish I hadn't got it.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:13:39):But you know what? They were, it was bigger items, actually. Wasn't sentimental stuff. It was like, my mom had this, a couple of chairs and furniture. It was more big stuff. And it doesn't sound like you have tons of big stuff. Um, it sounds like it's more sentimental stuff. Um, but I, I mostly felt like that chair, I should have hold it. It held onto the chair and some of her of dishes and stuff like that. But at the time I was like, no, it's gotta go. It's gotta go. Um, so the other thing that I would say is don't, um, for people is like, don't make any decisions when you're in a heightened, emotional state, because you will save weird and you will throw out stuff that you will. So like, it's good that you go through it once a year. Not in a crisis, not in a, not, you know, after a huge event, but at like when you like a regular checkup to the storage place,Dave Dastmalchian (00:14:36):I think too, I just had this thought what I should do, especially with papers, take pictures, just take pictures of papers. I can, I can even make a book for each of the kids. Like here is five images of all the crap you wanted me to save that I didn't, but I took a picture of it.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:14:58):Brilliant. You just thought of that. Brilliant. Yeah. You're a Marie Kondo in your own, right?Dave Dastmalchian (00:15:04):Aye. Aye. Listen, pursuant to our conversation about my home decor. I'm like, let's get rid of it. Let's get rid of it all. Like I have a China cabinet. I mean, come on. I, I, I mean, I have China. I have, I have tried, but I don't need to, it doesn't need to be displayed. Like, it's my prize possession. You know what I mean? It can just go to shelf.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:15:22):I guess that, that leads me to the question for you is, and it goes back to our other conversation, which is, um, do you think you just adopted that because it's what you thought you should do.Dave Dastmalchian (00:15:33):It's 100% that, because I, yeah, I, I learned at an early age, like I remember being on the younger side and, uh, going through something, I forget what it was, birthday, old birthday cards and throwing them away. And my mom being like, you're getting rid of them. You know, she keeps everything. She keeps her, yes, she keeps everything. But I, uh, my middle child is my, uh, icon in this way. At summer camp, you send cards, you know, you're in current and they like to receive mail. So I sent a lot of cards and he received a lot of cards. He comes home from camp. This is not this past summer. But the summary for her, I said, did you get all the cards I sent you? He said, yes, I did. And they were so great. And on my last day of camp, I looked through all the letters that you and Gran and I gave him a kiss through with the trash. And when he said it, I, I had this Pang of like, Oh, you throw them in the trash. But of course it served its purpose. The purpose was to give him something to remember us by while he was at camp it, then it was over. Then he was going to come home and be with us. He didn't need to hold onto it.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:16:53):It's not sentimental that way. No. What about clothing? Do you hold onto clothing?Dave Dastmalchian (00:16:58):No, no. I get rid of, I mean, I have my, I have my, I kept my wedding dress and I CA I kept like a few of the kids. Very first ones. These remember the onesies that you made, that you, you, we made at your house. I have the, I have not all of them, but I have some of those, but yeah, I don't get sentimental about clothing. Aaron does. Aaron has his high school, varsity jacket and his first pair of scrubs and his first doctor coat and all this kind of stuff. Oh, wow.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:17:30):Go through your clothing. And you're not a shopper. You don't like to shop for clothes.Dave Dastmalchian (00:17:36):Well, I like to have clothes. I just don't like to shop for them. Yeah, no, I go through, I, yeah, I'll have, did I forget if you were here, you saw my closet. We have, I've never seen your closet. It's technically a walk-in, but not really. It was a very small class. I have always had a very small closet. I've never, I know that if I had a huge closet, I would just collect a bunch of clothes. So it's kind of an and shoe. So it's kind of a good thing that I don't know. That's one thing we sort of keep under control. We, I throw out something maybe like once every week or once every two weeks I get rid of stuff. Really? It's the other stuff. It's the stuff that I feel like I'm supposed to have because I have kids or I'm supposed to have, because, because really a lot of the other people in my life are very sentimental errands. Very sentimental has. My mother is very sentimental. My kids are very sentimental. So I feel like I have to keep all this stuff for them. But I really don't.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:18:31):That was a China cabinet. Was that a purchase that you thought I should have this because I'm an adultDave Dastmalchian (00:18:36):Or did you inherit it? No, we were moving here from the city and we were just both like, well, we need a dining set. And we went to the furniture store was the first time I went to like a real furniture store and they had a matching dining table and chairs with the, with a China cabinet and a, uh, something else. We've got three big pieces. It's all crappy furniture. It was a waste. It was expensive. And it was a waste of money because all furniture that's made past bef you know, since 1950 is crappy furniture, um, dining table. Well, it's big, but it's, it's really like wobbly. It's crappy. It's crappy. So I, I think I'm going to, maybe after the holidays, get rid of the China cabinet, whole King thing. Like it doesn't give me any joy to look at it. It doesn't give, it's just like, here's where we put all the crap that we use on Thanksgiving.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:19:33):Right? It's more of a storage. It's not a showcase for anything special. What you need to do is get so many snow Globes that then you've got you put those in there, maybe, but that's a huge, you don't really need maybe a different kind of case for the snow Globes.Dave Dastmalchian (00:19:48):Something like that would give me joy, some little bauble, something like that. It's just plates and vases and, and somebody who is in my family has started a collection of something for me that I don't care for. But it's like, you know how it is, the person really wants to collect something for you. And they pick something. They, they have something that they collect and then they go, well, would you like a different version of this thing? I collect it. And you know, and I remember saying once, like, Oh, that's pretty. And next thing I know I've got my, what she considers to be my version of her thing. This is not my mother. I have to feel like I have to say this because this is not my mother. And it's, it's stuff that I feel that I have to make sure is out for when this person comes to my house.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:20:43):Understood, understood. I don't, you know, I think everyone like dead in my family. So I, I, I get free from some of that, like, but I do. There's a part of me that goes, Oh, someone is thinking about you that's collecting something for you. It just, maybe they would ask them if they could collect. You know, I don't knowDave Dastmalchian (00:21:05):To me that the collecting impulse, I don't relate to it. I mean, with the exception of maybe that I like these pretty snow gloves, I I'm not, I don't collect anything. And my mother collects everything. She does. She does. She collects, she has a China pattern. She does a crystal pattern. She collects, um, she's a big reader. So she collects books. She, yeah,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:21:35):I remember I remember the house on Wayne, right? And it was a duplex. It was a two floor. She had a lot of nice stuff. She had a lot of nice stuff.Dave Dastmalchian (00:21:44):It is, it's all very nice, but it's, it's stuff. It's a lot of stuff. And I'm just finding that. I'm not as into stuff. As I thought I was,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:21:53):Well, I think the pandemic has done that to people too. It has increased for me. Anyway. It has increased my awareness that like, all this stuff is not going to save us from certain things.Dave Dastmalchian (00:22:06):Not from nothing. It's not going to save you from anything and you have to clean it and you have to store it and you have to move it. And you have to, you feel, for some reason you have to replace it. If it gets broken, like it's just a yoke, it's a yoke. And Aaron and I fantasize. When the kids leave, we're going to get a studio apartment. We're going to have no possessions. And we're going to just do whatever we want. That doesn't have anything to do with buying, maintaining, or storing stuff of anything.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:22:38):That's brilliant. I think that is a great plan. D my only caveat is please do it in California. That's all I have to say. Yes, yes.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:22:58):Today on I Survived theater school. We have the fancy friends, Dave Dastmalchian and John Hoogenakker. I call them fancy friends because that's what they are. They are fancy. They work. And they work all the time and they're delightful human beings literally think,Dave Dastmalchian (00:23:13):and they have fancy last name. I was making the episode art. I'm like, Oh, this is, of course these two have to have the longest, last name so that they really do. I've ever had. We'll just call him Dave. You guys have seen. Yeah. And you guys have seen them. I mean, not necessarily together, but, um, uh, Dave was his first film role was in, uh, the dark night. So he, I would love to have him back Sometime and ask about Heath ledger, because I bet that he's got a lot to tell about that anyway. So Dave has a, mostly a film career. He's also a screenwriter. He has written a few films that are excellent, including, um, Animals and, uh, All Creatures Here Below two excellent films. And John is a lot on television.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:24:07):Gotcha. Uh, he was on Jack Ryan as one of the big, big leads. And he, and they're in an outstanding film called Teacher together. So that's somethingDave Dastmalchian (00:24:18):Right. And the two of them wanted to do the interview together because they're such close friends and they shared a lot of memories. And it was interesting to have as it's our first duo. It was interesting to explore their friendship as a way that they both survived theater school. So please enjoy Dave, the small shin and John who can anchor.Dave Dastmalchian (00:24:40):You got to call her up again and ask her to do all right.Dave Dastmalchian (00:24:44):I'm going to make a note of that right now. Anyway. Congratulations, John and Dave, you survived theater school. No, not barely. You guys. I think you both had excellent theater school careers, but I'd like to hear it from you.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:25:06):Uh, w I'm so glad that you're our first duo that we've had on today. The fancy friends. And I wanted to know about your experience, like together as well as a part, but like my first question for you is, did you love each other right away?Dave Dastmalchian (00:25:22):I don't, I don't know. John, did youDave Dastmalchian (00:25:26):Well, for sure,Dave Dastmalchian (00:25:30):Gina the longest and by the way, so good to see you. It's only been 20 years like this. I mean, we've, we've messaged and emailed a lot, but Jesus, this is amazing. Oh my God. Uh, so I was roommates with Gina and we were very close and then I left school for a year. And so the school moves forward. Jen, you and Gita were in the same grade. You guys all moved forward. And when I came back, it was a whole new group of people to get to know. And John, um, was one of the first people that I knew when I got back. So I felt very out of place. And, um, it was hard to come into because it's such a competitive environment and it's such a, um, intense environment. And I was both competitive and intense. So to jump into the fire with a whole new group of people, to kind of, it's hard, cause you're posturing, you're sizing up, but at the same time, you're looking for connection.Dave Dastmalchian (00:26:27):You're looking for support and it's, it's such a conflict. And John, I'm not going to get emotional today. I swear to God, but it was like one of the first people that extended such, uh, a kind generous since he's got that, that, that inimitable,John Hoogenakker (00:26:46):I'm a cuddler.Dave Dastmalchian (00:26:47):sincerity, which is what makes him such a brilliant actor. But he had that like, look me in the eyes in class and like, Hey, he has a little bit of a draw. Like I'm really excited. You're here. And I want to get to know you and I hope we get to work together. And then we went and hung out at his apartment soon after that and maybe smoke something. This is recorded, sorry, John. And then we watched star Wars stuff together and that was our bond. So that's my version of this story.John Hoogenakker (00:27:16):Um, no, God, we, we had a lot of fun. I have old pictures of you and I, and Iyisha and, uh, snuggling ghanaba, um, you snuggling and which I'm going to send you guys. Um, but, uh, yeah, we, uh, jeez, I just remember, uh, I remember Dave's, um, it bullions from day one, his like drive in his, in his positive energy. And I think, um, that is the thing that ha that has, that has been such a, um, such a driving force in Dave's career, um, is that he just never stops. It comes down to energy and positivity, and he's constantly pumping that into the world. And I think Dave has known for many, many years that it, you know, that that kind of stuff comes back to you. Um, and I think I was drawn to that in Dave, uh, yeah, from the giddy-up, butGina Pulice (00:28:10):Also recognize somehow that he needed you to take on that stare you in the eye and tell him you want to get to know him vibe. Did you know that he felt overwhelmed coming back?John Hoogenakker (00:28:23):Uh, I D I think from my perspective, the thing that drew Dave and I, to one another was a sense that, you know, in the theater school at the time that we were all there was such a, um, there was so, uh, it was a lot of mind fuckery going on. And there was a lot of, um, I think a lot of us in the acting track, especially I know this was the case throughout the school wanted, um, positive reinforcement from teachers. And sometimes I think my perspective was that people were manufacturing emotions and things to achieve that positive reinforcement. And Dave, uh, just seemed to be Dave to me, which I really, really, uh, enjoyed and appreciated. And, um, yeah. And so I think that was, uh, that was, um, it was, it was Dave's, um, his, his sort of genuine vibe that I wasJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:29:20):Both of you when I've run into you. I mean, you know, I don't, I live in California now, but I've seen you like at PR and Dave ed ran into you, one set of Starbucks in Chicago, the genuineness is unbelievable. So I, I think you're both fancy and I'm sort of sorry, starstruck, I, but when I, but there is sort of, both of you have this sort of face to face, like, look you in the eye, I'm going to have an actual conversation with you. And I think that makes you not only great, great actors, but what's more important to me is great human beings. And I, um, I don't know. I'm just so glad you guys found each other and that you're friends. It's like, no, it's not. That's how I feel. Yeah. That's how I feelDave Dastmalchian (00:30:06):The work and outside of our mutual, passionate love for the theater acting film, um, storytelling, character creation, cinema history, literature, like John. And I did kick it off immediately with a lot of, of, um, you know, kindred kind of passions for things which we all shared because we all were in that, that, that, that vortex. Um, and obviously we were drawn there because we had a passion for this stuff, but, um, you know, I've been through, uh, the ringer in my life outside of my acting career as well. And, and, and John was always one of the first people to show up and be there for me when I needed someone as well, which was you, you're not taught that in the, again, this is about surviving the theater school you're taught, um, that you're in the ensemble family mode during rehearsal. And it felt like kind of, um, during a production, but then it was right back to, you know, this really intensely bizarre, like John there's no better, I guess, adverb than mind fuckery of, um, and, and it was, it was, um, I'm very grateful, um, and, uh, many great, true friendships came out of that time because when you go through something that intense and that trying, but we, um, we, we, I would love to tell a quick story if I can, because we were kind of, we, weren't kind of, we were absolutely ups. We were in trouble a lot, um, because it's no mystery that I had a pretty intense substance abuse problem in college. And John had a pretty serious attitude problem in college. And, uh, neither of us dealt well with authority, although we loved being directed, which has always been a paradox with us. Like we love great directors that get in and like help guide us and shape things. But at the same time, we are the first people to, you know, get our backs up sometimes. And I, um, and I remember John and I were so frustrated that some of the people like he, he, there was this, this feeling of like posturing or presentation that always felt in authentic to us. And we wanted, you know, Chicago, we want to rub real dirt on our faces and smashed glass, and we're going to get in there. And, and we were doing a scene together from, um, uh, Glen Gary, Glen Ross for, um, second year, uh, scene study work with Joe [inaudible]. And it was so intense. It was the Moss era now seen at the Chinese restaurant. John is just needling into me to like, you're gonna, you're gonna get in on this heist, or I'm going to ruin your life. And we loved, like, we got into that so much. It was all space work. And we're in generally John and I were in, I was either in rave clothes or John was in some tide by Bob Marley thing. And, um, and so we had to speak special guests coming to the theater school who was going to do a scene study, uh, workshop. And it was F Murray Abraham. And, um, I'll never forget. We were all so excited, big fans. We go, they did it at a separate location on campus.John Hoogenakker (00:33:07):And it was where it was history of dramatic lit I think,Dave Dastmalchian (00:33:12):where nobody cheated. And he, um, he Through the fees that he was working on so quickly, and he was getting frustrated, like stop with the, stop with the presentation, like w Let's work these.John Hoogenakker (00:33:28):And he was also, he was also like not giving, like he would give a really incisive note and then would be like, all right, now, fuck off and do better in life!Dave Dastmalchian (00:33:38):He didn't want over preparation. He wanted this to be like a malleable Play-Doh Eve kind of moment where we could, so we were not part of that event, John and I were just sitting in the back row, probably like, just like, Whoa, this is so cool, dude. Like "that's F Murray Abraham!"]. And he looked to the crowd. He's like, is that all you got? Cause they had prepared. I don't remember four or five scenes.John Hoogenakker (00:34:01):Yeah. It was like, it looks like, well, it was like two from each classroom. And, and then we had like a break and the teachers were kind of looking around at each other, like, well, that's all I had. And that's all I got Dave, you went toDave Dastmalchian (00:34:15):Slowik Turned to me and John and slowok. goes, "You guys!"Speaker 7 (00:34:18):You guys, can we do it, John? Can we do it here? And John's like, yeah, let's do it.Dave Dastmalchian (00:34:25):What else is in costumes that they've got their props that John and I hopped up with? Uh, we, we may do, right. We got a bottle that we brought from someone else's seen some cups. Um, and we jumped up there and we did this. We did the scene where F Murray had recently done the piece or he was familiar enough with it that he could kind of jump in and, and do with this. But IDave Dastmalchian (00:34:45):Was so proud that day, even Though I knew what F ups we were. And even though I knew that I was, I knew that the work we were putting into and the discipline and the, and the, and the love we were putting into building these characters together and how much we loved playing off one another was, I knew in that moment, this is something I'm going to do with this guy for the rest of my life. And sure enough, we've gone on to do films, two films together, outside of school, we continue to collaborate. Um, I knew in that moment though, I was like, this guy I'm holding onto him for the rest of my life.John Hoogenakker (00:35:18):Dude, I wanna, I want to jump in because that was such, that was, first of all, it was, it was an amazing experience that we were like, we were like greyhounds, just ready to run. And, and we were also, we didn't realize that. So I'm going to, we talk about surviving the theater school. I don't know where to start, but more importantly, I don't know where I should stop. So you guys got to shut me up. Um, so, so, uh, I ran, I got that bottle from my roommate who drank Jamison, like all the time. So I ran across because we were in Seton hall, not Seton hall, but a sanctuary. And I got the bottle and I came back and Dave and I were getting ready and we do the, we do the scene and I knew, we knew that F Murray was going to just like, give us a note and dismiss us. So he gave us this note. And the w the one thing was I had been breaking up this paragraph that I was giving to Dave, you know, kind of feeling my way through it. And she kind of schmacting him and he was like, you know, this David Mamet gives you all of the direction you need with the punctuation, like Shakespeare. And you need to just drive through without taking a break, because that's going to give you more pay off at the end of the, at the end of the scene. And Dave and I looked at each other and we just started doing the scene before he could dismiss us. So we jumped right into it. And he had gone through all the people in our class that had been put forward. He had gone through upperclassmen, and that was the first group, Dave and I were the first two that had the audacity. Did you jump, take the note and jump back in? And we'll when we finished, he was like, that is preparation.Dave Dastmalchian (00:37:01):[inaudible] mother.Gina Pulice (00:37:05):I love that. I love that because what you're telling me in that is you each made a decision where our company is called Undeniable. So you made it, you made a decision to be undeniable. You made a decision to not let him, I'm sure everybody would. I, I'm not sure anybody else in that situation would have been willing to get up and go on and not let him deny you, not let him interrupt you. And you were like 18, 19 years old, which is like even more. So you, you both mentioned mind fuckery, which is a very evergreen theme on our podcast. And I would love to hear a little bit more about as you look back at this time in your life now, uh, and you imagine, cause some of our professors were probably the age then that we are now, what do you make of some of this? How have you reconciled some of what you now consider to be mind. Great. Did it feel like a mind fuckery then, or does it just look that way in the rear view,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:38:09):I'm just going to add a caveat, a quick caveat in that I teach at the theater school. So, um, I, and, and I, um, I'm trying to change the culture there a little bit. And so, um, I, I just always am really hyper aware that like we want, um, say whatever you want, that's what I want to say, whateverDave Dastmalchian (00:38:36):The Vincentian Brotehrs called in the legal team, man, they're coming, you're talking to John and Hey, don't worry. You go first because I know.John Hoogenakker (00:38:52):Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I have no idea what I'm going to say. We're on a journey of discovery. No. First of all, to your point, Jen, like I know John and I admire him greatly. I feel like there's gotta be five of him in the planet to achieve all this stuff that he's achieved. And the theater school of today bears little, if any, resemblance to the theater school that Dave and I and you guys, uh, attended. Um, and that said, I don't feel like, uh, the mind fuckery that I, um, felt I was, uh, that I received was the result of, uh, some jerk cadre of teachers sitting around in a circle and being like, who can we -? You know, who can we shit on today? I don't think that's how it was. I think the difference was there was a, a strong, a greater focus on academia. At that point. It was like just giving your life to an institution and, and a philosophy and an approach to doing theater that was, uh, at that time intensely cloistered. Um, didn't allow us to kind of step outside of the school. And we all, uh, to a certain extent kind of knew what we were signing up for. When we came on board, I had been in ROTC when I was in high school. Um, I had competed in debate, so I kind of dealt with a lot of that stuff at the beginning. And I just kind of felt like when I was at theater school, as Dave said, I had a real attitude problem because I was like, I had to take on a lot of debt to go to that school. Um, my family came together and did everything they could to help me, but I, I graduated with a lot of debt. Um, and I kind of felt like, you know what? This is, I'm paying you, but like, we get to have a conversation about this. I know you're the, I know you're the pro I know you've been doing this your entire adult life, but I have questions. And I feel like I'm due an answer and a considered answer. And you don't get to just shut me down because I asked a question and I'm 19 and you're 54. Um, cause I'm here taking on a lot of personal debt that I'm going to carry into my adult life. And you owe me answers. Um, th th that's just, let's just call that an opening, uh, Sally and Dave, you can share it for a little bit,Dave Dastmalchian (00:41:03):Like, you know, it was the perfect place for me to train. The culture was a utterly complicated, complex filled with nuance. Lots of gray area came from a tradition steeped in some really, uh, important and impressive theater movements that were more, um, militaristic and disciplinary and really, um, intense. I'll always be grateful for the tools that I picked up in the theater school to this day, saved me on an almost daily basis sets because the awareness it gave me of my body and my voice, and, you know, the depth of my psychology to be able to solve problems on the fly and repeat, you know, emotional recreations, um, was really important. I will say that there were conflicting philosophies and approaches, which is, I think very healthy. One of the things I loved was that nobody said this is the theater school way. It was like, here's the Joe Slowik way. Here's the Bella Itkin way. Here's the David Avcollie way, here's the Rick Murphy way. You go to these classes, you see what works for you. You see where you're doing the best work, and then you have to grow up quickly and you have to be prepared for this dog, eat dog world of the arts that you're going to be thrown into. Once you graduate here, there is no, you know, um, kind of kind or gentle or entirely psychologically easy way to prepare somebody for the, the, the, the meat grinder that is the show business. And so for all those reasons, I was incredibly grateful. I think there were, there was a lack of oversight when it came to, um, mental wellness with some of the faculty, and I'll always hold them responsible for the fact that they allowed sexual relationships between professors and students. I think it's entirely inappropriate for people in that kind of power, um, in there.John Hoogenakker (00:42:53):It's unbelievable when you look back on it.Dave Dastmalchian (00:42:57):When I think back on the fact that I knew there were teachers that we were meant to listen to and respect and regard and trust with our deepest parts of ourselves who were seduced and having sex with students that breaks my heart. And, and I, I would tell them that to their faces today, if I could see them, but I hope they'll watch. Um, and I also think that, uh, that there was some abusive behavior, um, that I'll never understand other than they were human beings who, um, you know, who were just people that, um, were, uh, that, that, that did, that did some things that may, I like to, I like to believe that they thought they might've been helping push us, or, but some of the things that were either said or done, I go, man, that was, I can remember sitting with Gina one time. And I mean, I I'm a pretty emotionally fragile guy, but I was like on the verge of, of tears, of, of something that had happened with one of the professors that we both really admired, but also we both really kind of feared and, um, and it was just like why, but, but in all, I'm grateful because I'm not one of those people I'll run into people from the theater school who are just carrying so much damage from that time. And I'm so grateful that when I look back on my time at the theater school, in all honesty, it's with a lot of positive, it is I really go, wow. That was an amazing experience. Yes. I have anger, frustration pains about certain things that happen that I can't believe, but I do feel, I feel like it really prepared me for the world in which I'm working now.John Hoogenakker (00:44:37):I totally agree. And I, I, you know, I look back on that time and I kind of feel like what, you know, when I look at things that had that I feel like have gone pear shaped and that I was a part of, I always try and think about what, what could I have done better? And for me, I look back on that period. And I think that I was not, uh, emotionally mature enough or perhaps mature enough in general, to take on board everything that I could have learned, uh, as an actor. And I'm talking about like, uh, technique wise in that program, because I was so emotionally just kind of bombarded with. So, so much of it is, is subjective in the, in the beginning. And we're going into a career where, um, you may go up against four other people in your type, or maybe not in your type who were phenomenal actors, and you may get that job, or you may not. Um, and there could be any number of reasons why you did or you didn't and kind of trying to prepare a child. And let's be honest, if you're not in the master's track, you're still a child, um, for the realities and the emotional rigors of, uh, of what could end up being a career in a full life, doing that stuff would be the greatest act of compassion that an educational center could impart to a child. And I feel like the theater school was like that wasn't even a thing. Um, and, um, you know, I mean, not understanding why, you know, everybody probably makes the case of like, Oh, gee whiz. I was so talented in my hometown. And then I went to the theater school and I was like, Oh my God, everybody's talented. What am I going to do? But you still in class with folks, uh, you know, all these hours a day, all these days a week. And some people are, uh, become darlings. Some people do not. Some people back then, um, were kept on after the first year, after the second year. And some people were not, and there were, there were there, there were like major head scratchers about that, like to go back and to have completed two years and to be respected in the eyes of your peers and presumably in the eyes of your teachers. And then to get that, that letter that, you know, maybe this isn't for you to be able to, to make that determination in another person's life. And in that way is just, it's, it's astounding. That that was what we signed up for. And I'll tell ya, uh, I remember I'll never forget. That was not really made clear. Um, prior to coming to the theater school, like actually sitting there on the first day, I remember sitting cross-legged on the floor and listening to kind of talking, this is the greatest city in the mind of God and His being like, you know, some of you will Graduate. Most of you will not. I remember like, wow, that's pretty intense. Like I was not so clear on the whole half of you are going to get cut the first year and then half the remaining are going to get cut. The second year, that to me was like deeply, uh, ingenuous disingenuous, because what was really happening. And again, the school is a completely different school. Now they've dealt with this stuff. What was happening was they were bringing in free labor that was actually paying them shitloads of money to be free labor, and then kicking them to the curb. They, I think had a pretty good idea at audition, which of these four kids were actually going to make it to graduation. And I think we had some idea of that, but we were literally pitted against one another. I'll give you one example and then I'll shut up and let Dave go again. Um, we did, uh, an intro in second year, lot called Laughing Wild, and it was by Christopher Durang and it's a two-person so two hander, it's a man and it's a woman. And what they did was they cast four males and something like nine females and the director never set the lines. So every night it was literally these kids who still had not been invited back for their third year and could still be cut in a fucking verbal knife fight everyJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:49:11):This is fucking crazy! Yeah.John Hoogenakker (00:49:13):And you know, it was the director. Like I still had really long hair at that point. Pier said Jason Pierce had really long hair. Uh, Bryan Sharp had really long hair. And I think it was Hunter, uh, Andre. Um, and it was kind of like Ilko didn't really like our long hair. So it was like, you guys all have to look the same. That's what I'm going for. So we all got our haircut and then we commenced to like fighting over these lines. And what we ultimately did was probably pretty cool to look at, but it was also a hot mess. Um, you know, cause he'sJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:49:49):Totally, no, I mean, I, I think it begs the, so I guess the bigger question here for me and I don't know what you guys think, but, um, th 17, should we be doing this? I, I really, I mean, I know for me, I'm, I'm grateful as hell I went there. I was, I was cut and then asked back, it was a weird thing. I got a letter and then another letter. And then, um, so as a 17 year old or sick, I was 16. Like, this is so much mind fuckery inherent in the system. And w when we went there, I mean, we're all glad we went, but like man kids, I don't know that we should be, if I would, if I had a kid, I don't know that I want my kid to be engaged in a verbal knife fight at 17 with Hunter, Andre. I I'm just, I don't know, but that's, that's a big question.Dave Dastmalchian (00:50:41):I wouldn't put my kids though on the track right now to be actors because of that. But the reality, the harsh reality is that the business of theater and the business of film and television needs 20, 21, 22 year old actors. So to throw them into the best training you can at 18, 19, 20, 21, it sucks. But it's also like it's an exceptional calling to choose the path of the artist. And it's, it's a, it's a, it's more, you know, not to be, you know, uh, whatever ridiculous about it, but it, it, it, it, it is like it's, it's, so it's such an unfair, the world is so unfair. As we know, Jesus Christ turn on the news right now, the world is an unfair place, but the arts are so unfair. And it's like, if someone's going to it's, it's such a complicated question. Cause I do think like right at like 18, maybe that's the earliest. If my kid said, dad, I want to do what you do. I'd say you do as much community theater in high school theater and drama, as you can speech debate, blah, blah, blah. I'm not taking them to a Hollywood audition until they're 18. Um, and if they want to pursue it, I would want them to go study and train somewhere. Like what the theater school is now, you know, at 18. But yeah, it's really complicated. It is. Yeah.John Hoogenakker (00:52:09):I will say that, you know, I was, I was just going to throw this in. When, when I graduated, I got a job working at Chicago Shakespeare, which was started like a couple months after graduation. And I got on stage with, um, Kevin Goodall, Lisa Dodson, Greg Finkler, Brad Armacost, um, all these amazing, uh, classic classic Chicago actors, um, stalwart Chicago actors. And it was the first, uh, it was the first show in the, in their new space. Um, so they had all these great people in the cast. So I got so lucky to be, you know, a messenger in that play. Um, but that was when my personal education in the theater like really started. And that was when I saw like these Titans, uh, kind of dealing with the humdrum rejection of, yeah, I went for another one at PR I didn't get it. Yeah. But it went to blah, blah, blah. And he's a great dude, which is a thing I've always loved about Chicago. It's like, you know, you get to a certain age, it's always the same folks in the room and you kind of are cheering for everybody. You sit in that waiting room, especially PR and it's, it's always a reunion of friends. Um, but I, I, so when I talk to people, parents of child, actors on sets who want to know what I would advise them to do, if these were my kids like Dave, I mean, I kind of, I'm kind of like, you know, if they are still interested in this, when they're 18, I would take all the money that you've saved for college. If you've saved any and just fund their apartment in Los Angeles or Chicago or New York, like start them off when they're that early, because they're four years ahead of the rest of the pack when they graduate. And they will have spent that four years learning at the feet of actual working professionals.Gina Pulice (00:54:08):Yeah. Well, the truth is when somebody wants to be this from the time they're five years old, which probably all of us did, there's no stopping them. I mean, we've heard stories of parents saying, please don't call, study theater, please do something else. And they're going to do what they're going to do, but so let's bring it back to when you guys decided you wanted to go to a conservatory for college. Was that something you knew all along? Did you figure it out later? How did you pick DePaul?Dave Dastmalchian (00:54:37):For me, it was, it was, uh, it was the, it was fate. It was, um, you know, it was truly fate. I mean, it was, it was like a miracle of God. And to me, God works through teachers. It was the power of teachers. I, um, my parents were a mess throughout my, you know, junior high and high school years where I was very much on my own in a lot of regards. And I was a high functioning, um, academically, you know, in the, in the, in the, in a good tier. Um, but I was really, uh, excelling in both speech and football. Those were kind of my two strengths coming through high school. And I didn't see the path towards, um, the academic dreams that I had for college, um, in, in speech or acting or drama for God's sake, but I did through football. So my dream was going into my senior year of high school. I was going to be as yoked as possible, play the best game I could play, get us to state, get a scholarship to go to a better school than I could go to that I knew was at my hands with the amount of money that my mom and I had. And with that scholarship, I was going to try and become a high school football coach who, who ran the drama club. That was my dream for myself, two teachers, my speech coach and our drama teacher said to sat down with me separately and said, you have something you, we will help you if you're, if you're afraid of applying to like arts programs or theater or following a track and drama and hearing that was mindblowing. And they did, they helped me do the research. I looked at SMU, NYU and DePaul. I did a regional audition and then ultimately up to Chicago and my audition was in front of John Jenkins and John Watts. I'll never forget. I was there in cutoff, Jean shorts, a tie dye, Janis Joplin t-shirt and my football socks. And there was a bunch of kids in leotards and jazz shoes who knew what they meant when they were saying things. I did it, my, my monologue was completely wrong. They said, don't do a dialect that I did, uh, a scene from Equis. And then they, we said, don't do a dialect. And I luckily remembered does a tiger wear a neck tie? And I just threw that out there. And it was fate. It was God, it was whatever you choose to believe. But then I got a letter, uh, very soon after that, that, and I was miserable thinking about playing four years of college football. That's important to note, I did not want to do that, but I knew it was a means to an end. My brother was a collegiate athlete and I knew the demands of that and that, that was going to be my life for four years. But for me to get the education I wanted, it was worth it. Um, and I got this letter that not only had I been invited to participate in the theater school program, but I had also been given this, um, this, this huge scholarship, uh, called the Stanley andJohn Hoogenakker (00:57:35):Good for you, Dave, we're all happy for you.Dave Dastmalchian (00:57:39):That's my story. I'm done as John, just going into the story about the buckets. Hey, I left school with a massive amount of Debt as well because my scholarship did not cover living expenses. That's why I had to leave theater school for a year to goJohn Hoogenakker (00:57:58):Dave. Yeah. Dave wanted to live in a four bedroom, three bathroom.Dave Dastmalchian (00:58:03):Gina can tell you where we lived on Lill. What was Our landlord's name?Gina Pulice (00:58:11):Earl Pionke!John Hoogenakker (00:58:15):was Lill, the place. It was like right around the corner from healing earth resources? Like, yeah, that's the one where like a couple like, or an adjacent building had the, uh, the deck collapsed right there. Yeah.Dave Dastmalchian (00:58:31):And the tanks? remember the Space Time tanks, John. The floating tanks?John Hoogenakker (00:58:33):what's that?Dave Dastmalchian (00:58:33):Didn't we go do that together? The tanks, the, that the, the deprivation. The sensory deprivation ones?John Hoogenakker (00:58:38):Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, right there. One of the oldest ones in the city is right there. Yeah. Thanks for, thanks for a, no dude. I'm so happy. So that'd be for you for getting a scholarship to DePaul. That's great. Um, good for you. Um, I didn't get a scholarship. I, uh, no, we, no, I totally very similar story except I was not going to be an athlete, uh, ever. Um, I was in, uh, I was, uh, in speech and debate in high school. I had not done theater since I was a child, like a younger child, uh, because I got, um, braces and my dad who was a, a local actor in Charlotte, um, was like, there's no, there's no market for a kid with braces. So then I was, um, I think at about 10th grade, I started competing in humorous interpretation, which Dave? Yeah. Um, and, and I did really well in that. And so then when I got to, uh, senior year, the drama teacher and I'd never taken drama at the theater at the, uh, high school, you know, she would, uh, she would accompany the speech team on debate trips. She reached out and she was like, Hey, you know, if you want to take this class, you can take the senior level drama class. And she, and my speech coach, uh, Barbara Miller said, you know, you should, you should check out some theater schools, see where you can study. And we, I looked into like, uh, a Julliard I was really interested in because I knew that Robin Williams had gone there, but I think it was more expensive to audition there. And I somehow missed the whole boat on, you know, I think a lot of people, I know Kelly, my wife, um, auditioned at, uh, in Chicago, but for a bunch of schools all at once. Um, and I, uh, I came in like late January, early February, uh, and we stayed, it was going to be a big deal for my family. So we stayed at the Palmer house. Um, and I went and I, again like, like Dave, I was surrounded by all these kids that just seemed so focused. And so like tuned in to this world that all of a sudden seemed very foreign to me and completely unattainable. And like, I was just completely a fish out of water. And, um, and I did, uh, my, my drama teacher had given me a monologue that was, you know, gonna be probably like, does a tire tire wear a neck tie or something, you know, appropriate for the location for the venue. And I didn't, you know, I, we had done, um, a musical called runaways and there was a monologue and runaways that I thought, well, it just really spoke to me. It was about a, a young kid whose mother had passed away. And he was kind of like just mourning her. And I remembered my drama teacher being like, well, it's your life? Good luck. And, um, and I came, came to the school and we did the whole, like, they let us through warmups, which was bizarre. That was Patrice, I think. Um, and then I did my monologue for like Betsy, I believe, and maybe John and possibly bill Brown. Um, and, uh, and I left completely dejected and I told my dad, I was like, well, that's not going to happen. Um, you know,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (01:02:06):So I have to interrupt and say that everyone we talk to, I am not kidding you. Every single human I've talked to says, I left that place after my audition feeling like, well, I don't, I think I bombed, But no one I've talked to has been like, I nailed that.John Hoogenakker (01:02:26):Well, that's, you know, I that's so, uh, indicative of the way, like the vibe at the time, the teachers weren't like, they weren't there to coddle you and be able to good job. You've really nailed it. I think you're going to go Places said, no DePaul teacher ever. No, no, no. They certainly, certainly they do now. But, uh, but yeah, so we left and I had forgotten my watch. Cause, you know, you had to like all of a sudden, like I don't, I think I just barely remembered to bring sweat pants or something like that. Um, and, uh, so I forgot my watch. So my dad was like, I'm sure you did find bud. And so like the next day or whatever, he calls Melissa Meltzer and he's like, Hey Melissa, I'm wondering, did you guys find a watch? Um, cause John, he lost a watch. You didn't, you didn't find a watch. Huh? Okay. All right. Well, uh, thank you. And then she was like, so how does John feel like he did? And my dad was like, Oh, well, he bombed it. He did very well. I just wanted to make sure we got that watch before we Charlie. And, uh, and she was like, yeah, he's one of you we're sending out a couple, uh, a couple letters of admission right now or whatever acceptance right now. And he's one of them and I just could not believe it. And, um, yeah, it was, it was really, really great. But again, I had no idea what I was signing up for, because if it wasn't DePaul, it was going to be Appalachian state, um, or community college in Charlotte because I mean, I had, I had, uh, I was in AP classes and I had done well on my SATs, but I was not a focused student otherwise. And, uh, didn't have the scores to get into state or Carolina or any of the vaunted, uh, universities in my home state.Gina Pulice (01:04:18):According to my research, you guys did at least two shows together. Uh, uh, yeah, right. Um, I got the Blues and Peter pan, Peter pan,Dave Dastmalchian (01:04:33):The, uh, we did the, um, uh, uh, Glengarry Glen Ross scene together. And then our senior year when we were all very frustrated with the, with the, with the, with the plays that had been mostly, there was some really cool plays that were selected for our fourth year, but we were, we were frustrated collectively John, his wife, Kelly, our friend, Dennis Zack, a whole group of us got together. And we put on our own production of white check. Uh, we worked together, uh, doing that, uh, outside of school and performed at a coffee shop nearby because we were determined to do challenging work that was going to actually give us a chance to do something. So, yeah. But while we were those first four years, and then in the year, since we've done three things together probably or four, yeah,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (01:05:25):teacher was amazing. Teacher was a good,Dave Dastmalchian (01:05:27):thank you. Thank you. I was so excited when, um, we got John, uh, it's just putting him into anything is going to elevate it. As you guys know you watch any TV show, any movie, any play, you name it. John comes into something he's going to elevate it. But I knew that that relationship I needed that character that I played in teacher had nobody else to ground him. He had nobody else to clean too. He had nobody else to like tu tu tu, tu, tu tu, you know, make me feel any sense of, of my, the characters, much needed humanity for the audience to get on board with him in those moments that John and I got. And John did a lot of stuff that magically woke up. It was a great script, but man, John took it to the, a much, a greater level, but just which is the magic he does. He did the same thing in animals. When I said, we've got to please be in my movie, please. I knew what he would do and sure as he did it, he walked in and everybody was just like, I mean, it's one of the best scenes of a movie that I'm very proud of. It's a 90 minute film filled with scenes that I love, but that is the scene I've probably gone back to, uh, more than any. And I go, God, really proud of the writing I did there, but what he did with little nuanced moments, I've, I've learned a lot watching my friend onstage and on, on, on set and I will continue to, I also watch everything he does obviously because he is my friend, but also because he gets to do a lot of really cool stuff. And, um, but I learned a lot. I learned a lot from, from you, John.John Hoogenakker (01:07:07):I feel the same way about you, man. You, I got to say, Dave has always been an inspiration to me because of, as I mentioned at the beginning of our talk because of the positivity that he puts out into the world. And Dave, you know, as he mentioned earlier, uh, went through the ringer with substance abuse. And, um, I think it's less than 7% of people, uh, who, who have been where you were, uh, ever come back. Um, and so to be one of those people who not just survived, but who thrived in an already incredibly challenging industry, um, is just absolutely astounding. And to, and to continually go back to the well and create, be a force of creativity and, you know, your own engine and guiding your own ship, um, while being, uh, you know, a partner and a father is, um, I, I feel so lucky that I've gotten to lean on you for inspiration and to call you for adviceDave Dastmalchian (01:08:17):Or, you know, it's wonderful. Like it's, I'm so grateful and that's another thing I'm so I'll always thank God for the theater school because of John Hoogenakker, and so many people that have been instrumental in my life. And I think it's important to note too, as far as the friendships that were forged in that time, um, you asked earlier too, there was some, obviously there were some teachers that taught me some wonderful techniques and skills, but also really hurt my heart in some certain ways. But that was it wouldn't be fair to, to neglect and not point out that like I'll never forget it. If there was one person who actually did take time to try, I felt like in her way to teach us ways of coping was Phyllis for me, she talked to me a lot about meditation. She introduced me to some books that were really instrumental to my journey, um, and like really wacky, like psychedelic stuff that I was really invested in thinking about at the time and really cool ways of trying to process depression. I didn't, I wasn't diagnosed at that time and I wasn't getting the proper help that I needed for my depression, but that was really, I I'm so grateful, uh, as well as, you know, the encouragement that someone like her showed, she was a needed angel at the time for me, um, in a dark place. Um, and bridges, I mean, I know he wasn't, um, you know, uh, faculty, he was staff, but that guy, um, recognized and saw some stuff that no one else was willing to address in my self-destruction. And he showed up for me way outside and above and beyond the, the, the roll call of whatever his payroll was or required of himJohn Hoogenakker (01:10:03):And his door was Always open. And as a side note, he attended your wedding. I bel

Lisa Dodson is the community liason for the Gift of Hope. She has been the driving force in developing the Life Saving Leaders group, along with the Peoria Advocate Group. Lisa not only is a employee of the Gift of Hope, but she is a donor family member as well.

A college degree can make a huge difference for parents and their kids. But if you’ve got an eight-year-old to support and a low-paying job, it’s next to impossible to pay for both tuition and childcare. For residents of Maine, a new law will help. Working with Joby Thoyalil of Maine Equal Justice Partners, Professors Luisa DePrez and Lisa Dodson used their research on the benefits of a college education for low-income women to help advance a bill called LIFT 2.0. Read Luisa and Lisa’s brief, “Why Higher Education is a Must for Low-Income Mothers” Check out the op-ed they wrote in the Portland Press Herald Learn more about Maine Equal Justice Partners on their website

Tim and Stacy are joined by Lisa Dodson from Gift of Hope, Organ and Tissue Donor Network

This week we are showcasing an episode from The Measure of Everyday Life, a podcast hosted by SSN member Brian Southwell. He spoke with Professor Deondra Rose about the policy moves that helped opened doors for women in higher education. For More on This Topic: Read Rose’s piece for Inside Higher Ed in defense of “me” studies Check out Rose’s brief, How Federal Government Policies Have Helped Women Earn College Degrees Read her piece in Talking Points Memo on women in higher education Further Reading: What We Know - and Need to Learn - about Progress against Sex Discrimination in Higher Education, Celene Reynolds,Yale University Why Higher Education is a Must for Low-Income Mothers, Lisa Dodson, Brandeis University, Luisa S. Deprez, University of Southern Maine

Thanks for all the thoughts and prayers from our Facebook friends regarding my recent knee replacement surgery. Sorry that I missed last Thursday broadcast. On July 16th, we return to the UR 10s Network with guest Lisa Dodson, a former WTA player and Director of “Serve Master”. The Total Serve is a unique tool,you can view on FHSTCA.ORG website.

Lisa Dodson, research professor of sociology at Boston College, shares data and stories from her 2011 book "The Moral Underground: How Ordinary People Subvert an Unfair Economy." She describes a growing trend of middle managers and professionals who recognize an unfair economic system and choose to quietly bend or break rules to assist their low-wage employees.

Host, Lisa Dodson, talks with Susan Nardi a veteran tennis professional now residing and teaching in Texas.  Susan is an author, an athlete, a cyclist and a mother.  Susan's work ethic and committment to health and fitness are an inspiration to all and we will be talking about what you can do for yourself in 2014.Mike Parks (Prime One Tennis) may be joining us today.  He is busy training his daughters, Mikayla and Alycia for great things on the court and in life.

Host, Lisa Dodson, talks with Susan Nardi a veteran tennis professional now residing and teaching in Texas.  Susan is an author, an athlete, a cyclist and a mother.  Susan's work ethic and committment to health and fitness are an inspiration to all and we will be talking about what you can do for yourself in 2014.Mike Parks (Prime One Tennis) may be joining us today.  He is busy training his daughters, Mikayla and Alycia for great things on the court and in life.

Host, Lisa Dodson, talks first with entrepreneur, David Marcus, Co-President of Own the Zone Sporting Goods about Eco-Grip the first biodegradable overgrip for tennis and racket sports. What a great idea!  Eco-Grip is really breaking out as a leader in the industry so you'll be hearing more and more about it.Hans Romer, USPTA Master Professional comes on around 1:20.  We will talk about the deep subject of DEPTH in tennis, the WHY, WHEN and HOW.  He is USTA Nor Cal Pro of the Year 2013, hosted the USPTA World Convention in 2012 and is featured on The Tennis Channel beginning Jan 8, 2014.  Originally from Holland, Hans brings a refreshing European attitude and energy to the tennis industry and whether you are a pro or a player you will learn a lot from him todayMichael Parks (Prime One Tennis) may be joining us today....but if not he'll be here next week!

Host, Lisa Dodson, talks first with entrepreneur, David Marcus, Co-President of Own the Zone Sporting Goods about Eco-Grip the first biodegradable overgrip for tennis and racket sports. What a great idea!  Eco-Grip is really breaking out as a leader in the industry so you'll be hearing more and more about it.Hans Romer, USPTA Master Professional comes on around 1:20.  We will talk about the deep subject of DEPTH in tennis, the WHY, WHEN and HOW.  He is USTA Nor Cal Pro of the Year 2013, hosted the USPTA World Convention in 2012 and is featured on The Tennis Channel beginning Jan 8, 2014.  Originally from Holland, Hans brings a refreshing European attitude and energy to the tennis industry and whether you are a pro or a player you will learn a lot from him todayMichael Parks (Prime One Tennis) may be joining us today....but if not he'll be here next week!

Join the dynamic Natalie Chaline Fox as she brings tennis industry to you.   We will be visiting this week with Steve and Teresa Edwards to hear about Advantage Swing.  I can't wait to share this product with you and tell you what it has done for my racquet position.  We will also hear from our New York Tennis Expo guy, David Sickmen.  We love him!  And don't forget about your ServeMaster Total Serve Tip of the day with Lisa Dodson.  She has quick fixes for errors!

Join the dynamic Natalie Chaline Fox as she brings tennis industry to you.   We will be visiting each week with various tennis businesses and organizations to see what they offer in this great sport we all love. This week we will be visitng with David Ranney, author of Play Zensational Tennis.  We will also hear from Debbie Ladig and don't forget your Total Serve Tip with Lisa Dodson!

Join the dynamic Natalie Chaline Fox as she brings tennis industry to you.   We will be visiting each week with various tennis businesses and organizations to see what they offer in this great sport we all love. This week we will be getting an update about the First Annual Tennis Expo then will visiting with Lisa Lopuck of the TennisMatch App!  The online support website is www.TennisMatchApp.com.  Don't forget to listen in with the SmarTennis Tip with Lisa Dodson of The Total Serve!

Lisa Dodson, American University, The Moral Underground, Convocation, Writer as Witness

Lisa Dodson, The Moral Underground, American University, Honors, University Honors Program, Writer as Witness,

Author and sociology professor Lisa Dodson discusses her book "The Moral Underground" and how many middle-income Americans help their lower-income co-workers.