Podcast appearances and mentions of john c riley

We still got a will and a burning rage to win, folks, because Ellis and Corbs are talking about WALK HARD! Topics: Non-linerar editing and audience testing, Judd Apatow, John C. Riley, paralell world Phil Hoffman, the evolving form of the comedy star during this time, the superior but rarely seen director's cut of this movire, and the weird line between parody and pastiche the movie straddles. Weirdly long? Corbin's Recco Here. Matt reccommends The Ankler, a newsletter about Da Movie Buziness.  Next week's episode is an episode about post continuity. Check out "Deja Vu" by Tony Scott and one of the Michael Bay Transformers movies if you want to be totally abreast of the thing we're doing but it's not necessary. 

National Asparagus day.  Entertainment from 1969.  Mary had a little lamb published, Brooklyn Bridge opened, Youngest ever to summit Mt. Everest.  Todays birthdays - HB Reese, Tommy Chong, Bob Dylan, Gary Burghoff, Patti LaBelle, Priscilla Presley, Larry Blackmon, Rosanne Cash, John C. Riley, Heavy D.  Duke Ellington died.Intro - God did good - Dianna Corcoran    https://www.diannacorcoran.com/The asparagus song - Bryant OneilGet backi - The Beatles and Billy PrestonMy life, throw it away if I want to - Bill AndersonBirthdays - In da club - 50 Cent   http://50cent.com/Up in smoke - Cheech & ChongBlowin in the wind - Bob DylanLady Marmalade - Patti LaBelleWord up - CameoTennessee flat top box - Rosanne CashNow that we found love - Heavy D & the BoyzTake the A train - Duke EllingtonExit - Ain't that bad - Paige Rutledge  https://www.paigerutledge.com/countryundergroundradio.com History & factoids website

A new John C Riley project, some Lizzo love, March Madness, and a rapidfire round of mini gossip! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A new John C Riley project, some Lizzo love, March Madness, and a rapidfire round of mini gossip! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Liam and Wayne from In Film We Trust ⁠ https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ifwtpod⁠ joins The Vern to discuss the english language debut film of Yorgos Lanthimos called The Lobster. This fable stars Colin Farrell, Rachel Weisz, John C. Riley, Olivia Coleman, Lea Seydoux and many more. It is a satire set in a futuristic society where single people are turned into an animal of their choice if they fail to fall in love with someone in thirty days. Many elements are discussed in this movie and we are extremely happy you are joning us for for the discussion. Ad Spots: Science Fiction Remnant ⁠https://sciencefictionremnant.com/ ⁠ ***Note**** The Episode starts off wonky becuase I hit the wrong intro show button . I should have removed it but hopefully it wont be too much of a distraction. Thanks again for listening and or watching. Please help suppourt our Indie Podcast and become a Patreon Member. https://www.patreon.com/cinemarecallpod --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/cinemarecall/support

Sara + Sean Watkins are Grammy winning musicians that are 2/3 of Nickel Creek (which they started with Chris Thile as kids), The Watkins Family Hour (which features Fiona Apple, Benmont Tench, Jon Brion, John C Riley, and rotating cast of incredible musicians), their own solo records, Sara is in I'm With Her (with Sara Jarosz & Aiofe O'Donovan), as well as collaborations with Jackson Browne, John Mayer, Blake Mills, Dawes, and many others. We talk about the power in diverse skillsets we gain both touring in a large variety of situations as well as various levels of business responsibilities, authenticity and humbleness (versus the emperors new clothes), never taking situations for granted, faking it, and a whole lot of laughs.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Sara WatkinsSean WatkinsWatkins Family HourNickel CreekI'm With HerDan WilsonBryan SuttonLargoEp 45 - Glen Phillips'Let's Go (So We Can Get Back)' - Jeff TweedyVince GillThe Station InnJenny LewisChris ThileMichael DavesBenmont TenchThe DecemberistsJohn PrineEp 5 - Shovels & RopeClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss. Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

This week the boays are joined by actor, writer and Still Game star Sanjeev Kohli.  Sanjeev talks about his early days working on Chewin' the Fat (including writing for one of its most memorable sketches), discusses playing one of Scottish comedy's most iconic comedy characters in Navid, and reveals the priceless line he heard from an heckler while onstage at the Hydro performing Still Game Live.  Plus, Sanjeev recounts his encounters with Scottish greats such as Billy Connolly, Sir Alex Ferguson and Peter Capaldi; recalls how he put his foot it with John C. Riley whilst playing alongside him and Steve Coogan in the film “Stan and Ollie”; and reveals the unlikely childhood memory behind his love (and prolific use on Twitter) of puns.Marc's new stand-up special "Away From Here" is out now on the Some Laugh YouTube channel - where you can also find a video version of this & all past and future episodes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxeugCQL5zyVhd7pCEAi9GAFor exclusive access to the boays' antics over in Germany following the Scotland team sign up to our Patreon!  For as little as £3 per month you also get an extra episode every two weeks plus footage from our previous live shows and first dibs on tickets to upcoming ones:https://www.patreon.com/somelaughYou can watch Stu, Marc & Steve's stand-up specials on the Some Laugh YouTube channel here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLM6lKn8dnMK5bOtlX-3XlCpZSf-B_qweQ&si=JjKknRTZvvza5l55Some Laugh Live returns to the Ediburgh Fringe on 20th August!  Tickets here: https://tickets.edfringe.com/whats-on/some-laugh-live?day=20-08-2024Stand-Up Tickets:Marc: https://linktr.ee/MarcJenkoStu: https://linktr.ee/StuartMcPSteve: https://linktr.ee/stephenbuchananYou can follow Some Laugh on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok - and please remember to leave a 5 star review! Support the Show.

Today on Too Opinionated, Taylor Misiak drops in for a visit! Taylor is a Los Angeles based actor with a BFA in Acting from Ithaca College. Taylor is most known for starring as Ally Wernick in 'DAVE' on FXX. Taylor also starred in "Pillow Talking" alongside Dave Burd (Lil Dicky) and John C Riley. Other television credits include Paramount Plus Original 'Players', Netflix's 'American Vandal', Crazy Ex Girlfriend, About a Boy and NBC's 'I Feel Bad'.   Want to watch: YouTube Meisterkhan Pod (Please Subscribe)

National Asparagus day.  Entertainment from 2017.  Mary had a little lamb published, Brooklyn Bridge opened, Youngest ever to summit Mt. Everest.  Todays birthdays - HB Reese, Tommy Chong, Bob Dylan, Gary Burghoff, Patti LaBelle, Priscilla Presley, Larry Blackmon, Rosanne Cash, John C. Riley, Heavy D.  Duke Ellington died.Intro - Pour some sugar on me - Def Leppard   http://defleppard.com/The asparagus song - Bryant OneilI'm the one - DJ Khalid Justin Bieber Lil WayneBody like a backroad - Sam HuntBirthdays - In da club - 50 Cent   http://50cent.com/Up in smoke - Cheech & ChongBlowin in the wind - Bob DylanLady Marmalade - Patti LaBelleWord up - CameoTennessee flat top box - Rosanne CashNow that we found love - Heavy D & the BoyzTake the A train - Duke EllingtonExit - Its not love - DokkenFollow Jeff Stampka on Facebook 

Episode 293: The gang talks a little about Riley and a little about John C Riley.

Today the boys review The Perfect Storm starring Mark (Marky Mark) Wahlberg, George (Cloon-tang) Clooney, and John C. Riley. After striking out hard on their last voyage, Captain Billy Tyne (Cloon-tang) of the Andrea Gail and his crew decide to give it another shot. While the odds were long, nothing could prepare them for what they were to face as two enormous storm fronts meet and mercilessly batter the Andrea Gail and her crew. Catch new episodes of the Where to Stick It Podcast every Tuesday and Thursday. If you like the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon where we upload exclusive content each month for only $3 a month.

Ever wondered how a director can weave an intricate story with a star-studded cast, yet make you deeply invested in each character? That's the genius of Paul Thomas Anderson, and we talk all about it in this week's episode. Starting off with Anderson's debut feature film, Hard Eight, and moving on to the popular Boogie Nights, we break down the compelling performances and share our personal experiences of discovering Anderson's world.How can a movie over three hours long keep you engaged? Anderson achieves this with Magnolia, another masterpiece that we dissect, focusing on the heart-warming love story between John C. Riley and Melora Walters. We draw parallels to modern rom-coms like Valentine's Day and He's Just Not That Into You while appreciating Anderson's knack for creating a complex, interconnected narrative. Finally, we delve into Anderson's romantic comedy Punch Drunk Love, and scrutinize the duality of Adam Sandler's career, and his other cinematic gems like There Will Be Blood, The Master, and Inherent Vice. We discuss the brilliant performances by the likes of Daniel Day-Lewis and Joaquin Phoenix, and the unique visual language that Anderson employs. Join us for this scintillating journey through the works of one of Hollywood's most influential contemporary directors.Support the showPlease subscribe, rate, and review! Thank you for listening! Hope you enjoy!Website: https://moviestheyreprettygood.comInstagram: http://instagram.com/moviestheyreprettygoodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100087938154530Twitter: https://twitter.com/moviesgoodpodYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8iGT7riyJ_K2DFLwfbTemg

The first film in this trilogy is also the 10th film the Marvel Cinematic Universe. This was written & directed by James Gunn and stars Chris Pratt, Zoe Saldana, Dave Batista, Lee Pace, Karen Gillian, John C. Riley, Michael Rooker, Glenn Close, Djimon Hounsou, Benico Del Toro and Josh Brolin. The voice over cast feature Bradley Cooper & Vin Diesel. This follows a group of criminals who find a mysterious yet powerful artifact that can demolish entire planets and must stick to keep it from the wrong hands. This was Marvel's first venture into outer space and beyond the stars and it certainly paid off.

Adam McKay's 2008 comedy goldmine, Step Brothers is up this week. We talk the brilliance that is Will Ferrell and John C. Riley, the Frat Pack, Adam Scott's intro to comedy, McKay and Ferrell's falling out, and much more. We also pick our Top 7 Frat Pack Actors in this week's Silver Screen 7.  

What happens when you recycle the cast, production team, plot, and general cinematography of "Top Gun" but with NASCAR instead? You get Days of Thunder, that's what happens! Join Josh and Ryan this week as we go two hundred laps on this Tom Cruise 'vehicle' (eh, eh?) from 1990. This episode has it ALL. Fast cars. Rival drivers. Ridiculous budgetary issues and a script that kind of doesn't have any bearing on the movie. Buckle up and put the pedal to the floor. Just watch turn 4- it's a doozy. Days of Thunder was released in 1990 and stars Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman, Robert Duval, Michael Rooker, Cary Elwes, Randy Quaid and John C Riley.

Impressionist and Comedian Frank Caliendo is this week's guest on the podcast. Join Michael and Frank as they discuss Frank's career and his advice for emerging comedians.Show NotesFrank Caliendo's Website - https://www.frankcaliendo.com/Frank Caliendo on Twitter - https://twitter.com/FrankCaliendoFrank Caliendo on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/frankcaliendo/Frank Caliendo on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/frankcaliendoMichael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistAutomated TanscriptsFrank Caliendo (00:00:00):So I thought put Seinfeld on drugs and the d the, the bit was why do my fingers look like little people? Who are these people in the door and they're talking to each other? They're probably talking about me when I say it. Talking. I, oh, Jerry, oh, I somebody. Hey Jerry, you look like you've been seeing little people on your fingers. It's, you just let that camera and then the end, it was Newman and Newman's like, hello Jerry. And she, we've lost a sort of Jerry Garcia Grateful Dead commitment of stamps. You would see . So he'd lick the stamps. You know, that was the,Michael Jamin (00:00:33):You're listening to screenwriters. Need to hear this with Michael Jamin.(00:00:41):Hey everyone, it's Michael Jamin. Welcome back to Screenwriters. Need to hear this. And I got another great guest today. I'm really racking up the guests. Everyone. before we begin, make sure everyone to get on my my watch list is my free newsletter, by the way. Goes out every friday at michaeljamin.com/watchlist for tips for screenwriters, actors, and directors and all that. And now let's bring him on. Let's bring on my next, my next guest who I met actually many years ago when I was running a show. He's, the show was called Glen Martin. And we, we, this is how it works. And, and Frank, don't worry, I'll give you a minute to talk. I know you're talking about the bit here.Frank Caliendo (00:01:15):No,Michael Jamin (00:01:16):I love it. This is how, this is how it works in animation. It's actually a fun job for, for actors. So basically the casting director, we don't even audition. Can't we say this is what we need and the cast director just bring somebody in and, and and if they're terrible, you know, we just get somebody else to replace them. And so in this role we needed this is we needed someone who could do an impression. And I don't remember what the character was. There's probably some politician. It might have been Obama, it might have been George Bush, someone like that. And so she had our casting director was Linda Lamont, Montana. And she goes, I have just the guy. And she brings him in. And it was, it was Frank, Frank Callo, thank you so much for being on the, my podcast, Frank.Frank Caliendo (00:01:55):And now I'm back. How about that? Huh?Michael Jamin (00:01:57):Now you're back. And he killed it. Now Frank, is this your, Frank has got Frank, you know, the, and, and, and the Game of Thrones. There was like the the man of, what was it? The god of many faces. Is that what it was? You're, you're the man. You're the god of many voices.Frank Caliendo (00:02:11):I'll take it. Yeah, I'llMichael Jamin (00:02:12):Take, take it.Frank Caliendo (00:02:12):It it's like six and then I just kind of do variations on it.Michael Jamin (00:02:16):I don't think so. Dude, you are amazing. You are amazing at how you do that. I want to get into like how you actually do that.Frank Caliendo (00:02:23):Well, there, there, okay. So let's, let's get into, first of all, I didn't believe you that I did the show that you said I did, cuz I kind of remember Glen Martin. D d s I remember getting the sides for it. I remember getting an email about it, but I don't remember doing it cuz we talked at some point that you were doing a live a live stream. And you're like I think that's where it was. And I was like, you said, oh, Frank, you did a thing with me. Or maybe we just instant message back and forth. I'm like, you're crazy. I don't remember doing that. I just looked it up on I mdb and I did do it. You did do it. It was George Bush and I guess John Madden. Go figure. You probably Madden happy for Georges Bush. So you wrote in the John Madden thing, I'm guessing. Michael Jamin (00:03:09):It's so funny. It's so funny that you chose to forget that you were on Glen Martin. How, howFrank Caliendo (00:03:13):She, I don't remember a lot of stuff and I don't even do any drugs, but it's like, I don't, I don't remember. I remember it was like a declamation kind of thing, right?Michael Jamin (00:03:19):Yeah. Yes. Right. And it was, that was Kevin Neen. He, he the, he the guy. So, yeah. And you, you crushed it and you did. No, it wasn't John. John.Frank Caliendo (00:03:29):I crushed it so much. I've never worked with you again. That's butMichael Jamin (00:03:32):I haven't done not have animation since. No,Frank Caliendo (00:03:34):That's true, jerk.Michael Jamin (00:03:35):I did Barry for 10 minutes though. But youFrank Caliendo (00:03:38):Know, it's funny. Here's a funny thing though. This is a funny thing, is that I haven't done a lot of animation. So you think of me as animation because of the voices. And that's the thing that's always weird. And that's why one of the reasons I didn't do a ton of voice acting. One, I wasn't as good at it as some other people. But two, it was like, because once you do that, it's amazing how people think of you in like, I'm in a couple of different tunnels for pi. It, it's, you know, the pi, the holes of the pigeon. I am a, people think of me as a sports guy and an impressionist. So it's like, oh, we, that's all he can do. So they never, so I, it's so funny because recently people have been like, ah, you wouldn't do this little partner move.(00:04:19):I'm like, yeah, I would, I do, do I have to do an impression? No. Oh good. Are you gonna rewrite the part? So I do impressions? No. Perfect. Interesting. That's what I wanna do. Now I do this, the impression stuff to keep the lights on. I mean, that's what I do on TikTok and Instagram and stuff like that. It's, there's some fun with it too. But that's the amazing thing is people start to get, I think I saw you do something recently where you said, you know, beat the dead horse. Right? You're like, it can Oh yeah. Do the thing. Do the thing you're known for . Yes. Keep doing it. Keep doing. I did it for 20 years andMichael Jamin (00:04:52):Well, I'm telling, and I'm talking about beginning people, but Yeah. But for you I can understand.Frank Caliendo (00:04:55):Absolutely. It's, it's, it's, and then you, you then you get to that point where you're like, I gotta do some other, some other stuff. And it's so funny because then people don't want you for anything else. Right. And then you go back and do some of the stuff again. But there's like two careers. And I've heard David Spade talking to those other people. Probably talked about it too. But I used to say this until I heard David Spade say it too. And then I'm like, oh, people think I was just taking it from David Spade. But it was, you spend the first career, you have two careers, the first career pigeonholing yourself, getting known, doing something, Uhhuh . And then the second career is being able to do something else, right? Like getting outside of that. So I had the first one. So I'm fighting in that little bit of that second one.Michael Jamin (00:05:33):Well, you know, so I, I wrote for Spade twice on just Shoot Me. And then later on Rules of engagement. So I'm just curious, what does he think is, what is his second career? What was he talking about?Frank Caliendo (00:05:41):Well, I I I just saw it in a, you know, I, I worked with him recently and didn't bring it up because I was scared of him. No. Why would you be scared of David SP's scared of David? Like, I tower over David sp five, six. No I'm trying to think. It was just something I saw him talk about on a talk show. And I, you know, it was one of those things I'm like, ah man, somebody much more famous than me is talking about this. So I don't know whatMichael Jamin (00:06:07):Thing you'd like to do. Well, I mean, you're amazing at pressure. I can see why you might wanna do something up, but what is it acting? I mean, you know,Frank Caliendo (00:06:13):It's just acting in small parts, you know, just small things because one, people think you want to only do big things and carry a show. Right. I don't really even have any interest in that. I don't even, I, I don't even wanna carry a show Uhhuh. Cause that's, I I I don't feel like my acting is at that level where I, anytime I've ever wanted to do something in Hollywood, I've always wanted to surround myself with good people. And they get confused when you try to do that. Yeah. They're like, why would you want somebody else to Well, cause I want it to be as funny as possible. I grew up, I grew up playing sports. When you have a good team, you do your part on the team. When I had Frank tv it was my show that came after Mad tv. It was shortened by the writer strike and it had some struggles and stuff like that. But it was one of those things where and it wasn't that good. And when it was finally put together, I was amazed. Cuz we had great writers and they would do it. They would pieces John Bowman that were Bowman and Matt Wickline.Michael Jamin (00:07:09):Yeah.Frank Caliendo (00:07:09):Great writers. Brenda Hay king and Lance Crowder. All these guys, like people Rachel Ramas, there were really great people Yeah. Involved in the show. But then by the time it was cut and put on tv, all the air was taken out. It was boo boo, boo boo boom. And you know, when that happens, there's no setups. It's all punchlines and you look like you're trying too hard. Yeah. That's, you know, you and I just didn't have, I'm, I'm not enough of a fighter. You need somebody who's gonna fight for you and do somebody who's gonna have the vision and fight for the vision and has been in that spot before to fight. And I just, I mean, I was doing like 15, 20 pages a day cuz I was playing all the parts until I got them to get other people on the show. So it was one of those things where I was just like, I was exhausted. I didn't even get to see edits. I didn't, I didn't like watch myself. Cause I was also too fat at the time. Yeah. I was like, I'm so fat in these things. I, it looks like South Park episodes. Michael Jamin (00:08:08):But how did that come part about, did you have a development deal at a studio orFrank Caliendo (00:08:11):Something being fat?Michael Jamin (00:08:13):No. You a lotFrank Caliendo (00:08:15):Exercise. It was, I had a d I went in, I, I went in and after I was at Med TV for a while there for five years I had the Fox stuff, the n NFL on Fox things, which was actually bigger for me than anything else. Right. being on the Sunday stuff and Super Bowls. So I went inMichael Jamin (00:08:35):And that's cause you do a killer. Madden give, give us, give us the taste of the Madden so people knowFrank Caliendo (00:08:39):What you're trying. I'm mad here for the quick pop popcorn pop. And I turned him into a character too. Like, like I was ta talking. This is, I know I go off on tangents. Just stop me. Go back. But one of the things with the Madden, you know, the, the realistic John Madden voice was this kind of voice where you, you say the things and you do the things. But I found this thing in him that was the excited little kid. Right? The . Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then when he would get that, that going, it was like, I was on Letterman and he had me come on as, get me come on as John Madden didn't say it was a some, I was the lead guest over Ben Stiller, I think it was. Wow. Fake John Madden Wow. Was the lead guest. And I came in and I wasn't really the lead guest, but it was, you know, I tell people, but it was a, it was so I pulled a chicken wing out of my pocket.(00:09:29):I had them get me a chicken wig with sauce on it and everything. I gave you hungry. He was like that right now. , how funny, can you believe this? But it was one of those things where it just, stuff would happen and the, you create the character with it. And it becomes, the funny thing is to me, that that stuff doesn't work the same on social media like TikTok or Instagram, but it might work on some YouTube stuff. Cause there's more longer form. It's, it's more of a longer form, you know, the, the platform is Right. I just didn't like that I said more and longer right. Together. I'm, I'm weird with grammar. I'm very, some things I just, like, if you noticed, I texted you, I didn't like that I put different tenses tenses in my texts and you like, you just stopped talking to at that point.(00:10:14): But when you, I dunno what they really like and on TikTok and these you know, shortform ones platforms is exact replication. They want the, what I would call more of an impersonation, right? Like they want the the, they want you to sound exactly like the person. There's no element of caricature it really, or going what I would call Dana Carvey on it, cartooning it Right. And making it bigger. They're like, ah, that's not like it. Well that's the point. That's the comedic element, right? Right. That makes a good exaggeration after. Yeah, exaggeration after the initial what's the, what the word I'm looking for, the when you, when you recognition, when you get the recognition, laugh on the sound, and then you have to do something with it and make it bigger, right? You have to have more fun with it.Michael Jamin (00:11:09):But you did a post, I thought it was fascinating. I think it was on TikTok, excuse me. I think it might have been like how you do Robert Downey Jr. Or something. And you, you walk through the stages of how you approach the voice in, in pieces and then how you getFrank Caliendo (00:11:26):There. So let's, let's start with this. And this is something that you'll identify with completely as a writer and a creator. You have to find the cadence and the voice of the person not speaking in terms of tone, but the cadence, right? Yeah. How many Christopher Walkins have you heard, right? You've heard low, you've heard, hi, you've heard in the middle, in, in, in the old days, it was William. You knew who it was just by the pauses, right? So you could tell from those voices how you would write for that character. You put the point of view into those, into the song, right? What those of the, you know, into you put the lyrics into the melody. So with Robert, Danny Jr, I found that this is with other characters too. That counting can help you do it. It's better for the audience. It's not a full way to teach somebody how to do it, but it's entertaining while you do it. So Robert Downey Jr. Is after you find the pitch, or you don't even have to have the pitch first, but I'll go to the pitch cuz it's what I do. But it's one, two, pause, burp 5, 6, 7. So you find that it's 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7. And then you can just figure it out, you know? So that's, that's how you find those with Liam Neon. It's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. You know? So it's the beginning. That'sMichael Jamin (00:12:52):Interesting.Frank Caliendo (00:12:53):Yeah. You can do that with Jeff. Goldblum is one, two 1, 1 1. Juan, what comes after one? Think out loud. That's him one. What's, what's coming into my head? What do I hear? The voices coming at me. One, two. Yes. Here comes one, two, a little jazz. 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.Michael Jamin (00:13:17):But you talk about this, you're talking about how you approach it. It's not like you think anyone, you, it's not like you're trying to teach anybody. It's not like anyone, you think anyone can do this, do you? Because I don't think IFrank Caliendo (00:13:26):Do. I think people can find, people can find, I do think people can find it. I think people can find people can't get the, they might not be able to get the pitch, the, the, the note, but they can find the cadence. Everybody, people do itMichael Jamin (00:13:40):Forever. But you, you know, your, your throat, your mouth has a certain in your nose, like you talk. I think you're stuck kind of with the, like, I can't change my, you're stuck with the voice. I don't know how you were able to literally changeFrank Caliendo (00:13:51):The, well, you don't need to do all that stuff. You don't, you don't have to do all the, that. This is another part. The face is another part of an impression. That'sMichael Jamin (00:13:58):The sound of the com. The sound comes from inside your skull.Frank Caliendo (00:14:01):Ok. So yeah. So there, there, there are different pieces to this as well. You can close off your throat. You, you think of it, you know the Bobby character, the Howie Mandel, little bitMichael Jamin (00:14:12):Bobby.Frank Caliendo (00:14:14):So that's closing off your throat. And a lot of people can do that. But the difference is finding different levels of being able to work. It's just, it's a, it's like a muscle, right? Right. So I'll do, I've done this, you might have seen this before, but this is John C. Riley is in here. So John C. Riley has just a little bit of bubble in his throat. Now if you work backwards, a tiny hole, ker frog, that's a little bit more up in here, re tiny Hall Kermit, you're reporting from the planet COOs. Then bring it down a little bit, Nelson your throat a little bit more. You add some air and it becomes Mark. I, I see this as an absolute win, guys. ThisMichael Jamin (00:14:51):That's exactly it. ThisFrank Caliendo (00:14:52):Is, this is crazy. And then, so for Ruff, he is got that thing where I think he had like a, a tumor or something, some, some medical thing when he was younger. And part of his f it was the same with like Stallone, Stallone had Bell's palsy, right? So he is got that, you know, that thing that, right? So if you find, I call it the pizza slice, you've probably seen the thing I did this. It's a triangle. It's a line across the eyebrows, a.in the, in the chin. And it's the triangle that goes down. There are two things. Now, this is stuff I'm actually gonna dos and Instagram on as well, but it's I just am too lazy. And it's, the mouth tells you how the person talks.Michael Jamin (00:15:33):UhhuhFrank Caliendo (00:15:34):. So if you watch my mouth, that's why everybody does a Donald Trump, right? When they do a Donald Trump, you have to do the lips. The lips are very, very, that's very. But now this part of my face from those down is doing Donald Trump. Now when the eyes start going, it sh now that's the point of view that starts. Same with the bush. Bush is, you know, I could do this thing with this half smile. It's like somebody told me a dirty joke before I came up here, but that's just, that's from nose down. But now I get a little discombobulate and you know, I'm staring into the, the abbu, you know, that's what it was also a great movie. So it's, and then the point of view comes from the way you think. Right? But you, when you write a character, when you write a character, you become that character when you write, I don't know if I'm stirring batter or what. Yeah. But if you're doing a cooking show and you're stirring the batter, but your character, you haveMichael Jamin (00:16:32):To, yeah, we would, for example, on King Hill, we would imitate Bobby Hill or Hank or whatever. But imitating is not sounding, you know, it's not sounding like,Frank Caliendo (00:16:40):Yeah. It's just, that's just taking it another level. You, you, you just take it. You get, because you had the cadence of the character. You might not have had the note, but you had the notes written. You didn't have them on the stop, but you knew if it was an eighth note, a quarter note, whatever, a, a rest. And I only know a little bit about music and that's all of it that I just told you.Michael Jamin (00:17:00):But did you, as a kid, did you, like, did you, were you good at this as a kid? Did you wanna aspire? Did you aspire to this?Frank Caliendo (00:17:06):I think I was pretty good at it. I, I have a natural knack and my kids have the knack too. So you have to have a, a knack at the beginning to figure this stuff out from the beginning Right. To, you know, it's predator of the infrared going. I see everything. My son had Bell's Palsy when he was very little. And I, I could see that when he would smile. This is a, the blessing and a curse thing. And when he would smile, he wouldn't smile all at the same time. And then I started to look closely and part of his face moved a lot slower and didn't always move. And I said to, to my wife, I go, something happened. I don't know what it is, but I think he had Bell's Palsy. Well, we had him tested to make sure there was no brain stuff going on or whatever.(00:17:47):But the doctors, what the diagnosis eventually was Bell. He had Bell's Palsy when he was a baby. Right. And it, you know, pa what happens is Bell's Palsy is, I think the fifth I, I don't remember what it was, the fifth or seventh cranial nerve. Something gets damaged either by a virus or trauma, blood trauma. And it keeps you from everything moving at the same time. But that's, but I could see it. Most people don't see it. I could see it because that's the way my brain breaks things down. Yeah. I mean, you as a writer, as a performer, whatever, however you consider, whatever you consider yourself, you do similar things. You see the world from that point of view. And that's how you write. You go, you observe, you take in, and then you replicate or create from that. Exaggeration or finding the, I I've set off Siri like nine times on my watch during this. I've never, that's never happened before.Michael Jamin (00:18:50):I Yeah, I, I say mean things to her. I and I and my wife says it's not good because Apple's picking up on this , like I say awful things to Siri. So, you know, like, Siri, you asshole. What time is it? She don't say that.Frank Caliendo (00:19:08):I'm sure it could be much worse.Michael Jamin (00:19:10):Yeah, it is much worse. I'm cleaning it upFrank Caliendo (00:19:11):For the podcast. Yeah. You were just trying not to get canceled.Michael Jamin (00:19:14):Yeah. Yeah. .Frank Caliendo (00:19:15):Yeah. So there, so there are lots of, yeah, I, I, I see. I look at these thi these things in, in lots of different ways. For me, you know, one of the things that, one of the things when I first got on social media in the last couple years, a few years ago mm-hmm. . Cause I wasn't doing any, cuz I was on Twitter 10 years ago. AndMichael Jamin (00:19:35):Why did I started finding, started my goal on social media. Why did you start?Frank Caliendo (00:19:38):Well, you have to. I mean, if you, if you, the first time it, it was because it was new and people were telling me I didn't like it. I just, I don't like it. I, I, I, I can't, I can't adapt it because people are angry for the most part. And there's a lot ofMichael Jamin (00:19:54):Yes. Tell me about it.Frank Caliendo (00:19:56):Is it, yeah. Right, right. And there's a lot of what confirmation bias. So there's confirmation bias mm-hmm. and the exact opposite. Right? So people either wanna hear exactly what they're thinking and they don't wanna have a conversation about something different. Mm-Hmm. . Or they just wanna fight you for no reason. They wanna troll you. They just wanna, they wanna make you mad. And especially somebody like you or somebody like me that's been in the entertainment business, we targets. Because if we say something back that's mean. Oh, the guy from Glen Martin dvsMichael Jamin (00:20:27):. Well, they don't, they don't. No one's ever heard of that. I know. But, but you're right. I don't, I don't respond anymore because there's just no winning it. There'sFrank Caliendo (00:20:35):No winning. It can't win. Cause because you are, it would be like, this is an exaggeration, but it'd be like a leader being a leader of a country. And this is, but this is what Trump does or did though, right? Uhhuh, . . And you would come back at people and you'd go think, ah, you gotta stay above that. At a certain point it's fu it, it quote unquote. It could be funny in and this isn't a political rant, this is just what I see as an observation. Mm-Hmm. it can be funny in of somebody running for president, but as soon as they're president you kind of feel like you're Yeah. I think, I think it's time to be a little different. You can, that's my opinion. ButMichael Jamin (00:21:08):No, you're absolutely right. I told, but, but, and that's what's so interesting about it, is because social media, at least when I started doing it, like at first, it's a little empowering. You have an audience and you can, you have an, you have a platform. But then once you start getting trolled and, and I, as a comedy writer, I feel like I can tear you apart. I can tear you apart. Whoever's trolling, I don't, I'm better at this than you. But the minute I do it, I, I can't do it because then I'm, I'm then I'm the asshole. And then it, what was once empowering now becomes emasculating at the same time. It's very odd to be able to have a platform, but not causeFrank Caliendo (00:21:40):And and you can, and people can say things to you that you could never say back because they will say things that would get you as a business person canceled. Yep. It doesn't have to be racial. Or it just, they can say things that are just mean that if you say it and somebody pulls it up, they're like, look what Michael Jamin did. Yeah. This is unbelievable. Yeah. I We can't hire this guy. Yeah. He's, he's a terrible person. And they'll defend the person who's ripping you to shreds and saying way worse things. Yes. So you're stuck in, you're, you're stuck in a spot. So it, so I, I started, this is why I got away from social media 10 years ago, whatever. So I was on Twitter, I was building it really quickly with sports stuff. Mostly not video, just just kind of like sassy phrases and, you know, mean things. I, and I realized I was starting to be this person on Twitter in real life in real wayMichael Jamin (00:22:37):InFrank Caliendo (00:22:37):What I'd see somebody just, I'd see somebody and wanna say something terrible to them. Mm-Hmm. . And the only reason I would say that in Twitter, cuz my comedy's silly, not really mean uhhuh, , it's it more cherubic cuz of the cheeks. But , it was one of those things where you said mean things on Twitter, you got likes and retweets cuz people love Right. You know, knocking down people in power. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say something about a quarterback that just threw an interception. Something I could never do. I would never have, you know, that that's the level of skill to, to make it to their level. And I'm ripping them to shreds. I'm going, I, I, and I've changed this way too. I mean, I, I used to think, you know, I used to watch the Oscars and kind of rip the Oscars to shreds because it is so self-aggrandizing. It, so mm-hmm. , everybody's self-congratulatory and stuff. Like, and I would say things, I'm like, I shouldn't be saying this, that, not just because it's, you know, it's kind of gross. But it's, it's also just, I don't know, these people work very hard to get where they, you know, they're just going, some of 'em don't, you know, they're happy to be getting an award, but they have to be show up. It's part of the business. Right.(00:23:46):I get it. I, I what a jerk I am for. You know, that's why even people, people wanna do a podcast and like, let's do a podcast where we just rip movies. I'm like, I don't wanna, that's somebody's acting, somebody's put a lot of time, like my TV show. There were a lot of great people putting that stuff together. But by the time it all got put together, a network has to say other people standards and practices, all these different levels, it's not really what you want it to be. And it's not any one person's fault. It's just not what you want it to be. And that person is, but, you know, that's why it's so amazing when somebody does do something really great, you're going, wow, you watch a, a Tarantino film or something like that. He's a guy who just fights for all his own stuff.(00:24:32):He's gonna do it his way. Right. But you watch a, you watch a film with somebody who does Jordan Peele now right. Who actually got to work with a man TV years ago. People get to a point where they have their point of view and they can make closer to the movie that they want to make. And then you go, okay, when this turns out, this is, this is fantastic. This is how you do it. Because when you don't have that much, say you don't have that much power and you don't have that much fight in you, it's, it's really hard to get close to what you want. And there were so many things in my show mm-hmm. that were close to what I wanted. But that little bit of change just goes. And there were three little changes. You go, oh, the timing's not what I would've done there. They used a cut I never would've used. Right. And now they put it in a different part of the show. Wow. Oh man. So then I know that happens everybody,Michael Jamin (00:25:27):But I have to ask, so then why do you do, why are you on social media? Because you, you have quite a big presence on it. So what's,Frank Caliendo (00:25:33):You go in, you go into an somebody's office, an executive's office. The first thing they do is look how many this, what are you doing here? What do you do? They reallyMichael Jamin (00:25:43):Say, say that toFrank Caliendo (00:25:44):You. Oh yeah, I've had plenty. The people look at me. It'sMichael Jamin (00:25:47):Because what they don't, I feel like they don't understand is the change in the algorithm, which is maybe only a few months old, but they don't un do they understand when you talk to them that having a million followers on Instagram or TikTok, you can't reach them all on any given day. You reach maybe a 10th of them, you know.Frank Caliendo (00:26:03):Well, you don't even reach that. I mean, people don't, so again, people the way it's been explained to me is that TikTok doesn't even really go out to yourMichael Jamin (00:26:15):Followers anymore. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't.Frank Caliendo (00:26:17):It go, it goes out to a random sample audience, which has mm-hmm. some of your followers in it. And then once it hits that first audience, if enough people watch it long enough or watch it to the end, it gets, then it goes to the next sampleMichael Jamin (00:26:30):Audience. Yes. Right.Frank Caliendo (00:26:31):So if you go to a bad, I I,Michael Jamin (00:26:34):But that's also Instagram. Now that's kind of this, they're they're taking the same model. TheFrank Caliendo (00:26:38):The real stuff. Yeah. Well, because, and the reason that works for them is because they, they can build stars faster that way they can build. So it used to be on Instagram, it would take you years if you weren't famous mm-hmm. to get to a point where you had 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 followers. Well now people can just vertically swipe through reels and all of a sudden the, those people who do that are tend to follow a lot more people. Right. So your videos can go viral with no followers. Right. And then suddenly you'll have followers. It didn't used to work like that it used to.Michael Jamin (00:27:15):Exactly. So that's why I'm asking lots of followers. Do they know, do you think the executives know that? Cause they look at your numbers and like go, oh, Frank's got a big following. But do they know that you canFrank Caliendo (00:27:23):I don't. I think they're a little, I think yes and no. But again, it works to, in their favor that if you have videos that have a lot of numbers mm-hmm. do, because then you're hitting an audience. They know you're hitting a pretty big audience that spreads it to other people. Mm-Hmm. . Now I'm 49, I'm about to be 49. Okay? Mm-hmm. , I, my age group that I played to most, or played to the most was probably 35 to 50 in there. You know, somewhere in there somewhere that I felt like I was similar age and had similar likes and life experiences.Michael Jamin (00:28:00):Right.Frank Caliendo (00:28:00):And those people, that group of people doesn't tend to hit the light button or the retweet button as much. I know I don't. Right. Right. Kids send it, they direct message stuff to their friends. They send things to their f they then they tag other people. They tag lots of people. Yeah. And that's why network executives, producers advertisers like young audiences, not just to sell the products to, but they're the ones that spread the word. Right. And they know that. They know it. It kind of works. You know, I always, I never really thought about that or I never really believed them with that. You know, I've changed brands on a lot of stuff. I've changed toothpaste, I've changed all kinds of things. Right. I don't think I'm normal. I, I, I, I guess I'm not, but young people will try different things and they will do lots of different things at a much higher rate. AndMichael Jamin (00:28:54):So interesting. Do you feel then, as a performer that, okay, so you kind of have to do this. You're a little bit, you know, could you do it what, every day? Right? How many times do you post a day?Frank Caliendo (00:29:05):I don't, I don't even post that much. I, I'll post like a, a week. Once a week or once. Oh, half the time. It's half the time. It's old stuff that I've already Interesting. Like the thing, I have something with 8 million views right now from like a couple weeks ago. Wow. That I've posted two times before. Yeah. And it's gotten a million views and 2 million views and maybe 30,000 views. Oh. Which hits exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. If it doesn't hit the, I have, I have two pieces of advice. A couple pieces of advice for your content, please. I, I would not end my pieces telling people to go see, go. Don't, I wouldn't waste the time in the, in the, in the post telling people for more, if you like stuff like this. Go see, go did Michael Jam writer what, you know, your website, stuff like that. Right. I would just put it in writing near the end. Yeah. On the screen. Because then it's there a little bit subliminally. And they don't have to wait for the, because if they've heard you, if they like your posts and they watch you all the time, they know that's the end of your post. They'll cut out early.Michael Jamin (00:30:10):Interesting. So you're saying put But if I put it up on there, cause I, I do this to get people on my newsletter Right. To, you know, cuz that you get their, but you're saying if I, if I just say it'sFrank Caliendo (00:30:20):Up to say at the end, you spend two to three seconds going. Right. If you like what I said right. Go to Michael Jamin, Robert Writer what is it? Michael jaminMichael Jamin (00:30:28):Michaeljamin.Com/Watchlist is my newsletterFrank Caliendo (00:30:30):Slash watch. Okay. So if you, if you like what you've heard, go to Michael Jamin slash wa slash slash watchlist stuff like this and other things that I gotta Now now they've got, now you've, now you've given them a little piece, which is what's everybody telling you to do? They all tell you well get the call for action. Yeah. But if they've seen your post and they like your posts, they don't need that anymore. Right.Michael Jamin (00:30:53):What if they're brand new? What if they'reFrank Caliendo (00:30:54):Brand new? If they're brand new, you put it, you just put it up on the screen. You put it up on IMichael Jamin (00:30:58):The screen. What do I put on the screen?Frank Caliendo (00:30:59):On the screen? You just write it on the screen. Yeah. Say like more stuff like this.Michael Jamin (00:31:03):Oh, okay. For the whole thing. For more. Okay.Frank Caliendo (00:31:05):Or, or in the last, the last third of what you say. Okay. Just have it up there. And in the, because you do that, you can try, you can, you can experiment and do it both. Do it, do say it sometimes put it up on the screen. Do both mm-hmm. sometimes just put, put it at the end and, and test it. Yeah. Because I could be, I can be wrong. I can be wrong here. But I'm telling you, I watched to the end of yours because I know because I want yours to do well, Uhhuh, , I'll do it, but I'm tempted as soon as you go into that mm-hmm. , I tempted to flip up andMichael Jamin (00:31:39):All right. What,Frank Caliendo (00:31:40):What I found with my stuff, if I introduce things, sometimes people don't even wanna see me introduce it. I just put the title of what I'm doing on the screen.Michael Jamin (00:31:49):Uhhuh ,Frank Caliendo (00:31:50):I don't tell you, you know, I don't tell you what I'm doing. I put the title on the screen to tell you what I'm doing and I get right into it. Right. Unless it's a reply to somebody's if somebody's, then I read their reply a little bit. Right. So they have the visual and you're reading the reply and you're saying something at the same time. So they're kind going back and forth. And then you do, you cut and do what they're saying. What is, what is your other, very quickly,Michael Jamin (00:32:16):What is your other tip for me? Is there anything else? I'll listen in. I don't know if my reader Yeah. What cutsFrank Caliendo (00:32:26):I would cut, I would cut a lot. You don't cut much. Oh, oh,Michael Jamin (00:32:30):Oh.Frank Caliendo (00:32:31):Visually you do, you do things in one.Michael Jamin (00:32:33):Yeah. No. You know why? Because I just don't wanna produce anything. I don't wanna spend time. Right.Frank Caliendo (00:32:36):I get it. I get it. I get, I get it. And, and, but like a friend, somebody I know used to work at YouTube and they're like, just cut, just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. And you don't even have to really produce it. All you have to do is just splice, splice, splice slightly. Make things bigger and smaller. You don't even really cut any air out. But I, if, if you look at, if you look, you just put it in iMovie or they actually have it in there. Now. If you don't even, you don't evenMichael Jamin (00:33:01):Too much word.Frank Caliendo (00:33:02):I get it. If you watch most of my stuff that's new. There is no real effort into writing it. , Uhhuh. It's just saying words over and over.Michael Jamin (00:33:13):. Right. It's,Frank Caliendo (00:33:15):I won't put the time. Now what I'm starting to do is go back, like you said, let's talk about the Seinfeld thing. When I put the Seinfeld thingMichael Jamin (00:33:21):Out, and that was from Frankie. OhFrank Caliendo (00:33:23):Right. That was from, and it was critically panned. Like it's terrible. Like critics told me it was awful.Michael Jamin (00:33:28):. Ok. I liked it.Frank Caliendo (00:33:30):Yeah. And it's even cut even shorter. It's, it's even, I think the full things like pretty good. There was one of the things I was the most proud of, Uhhuh or the proudest of. And but it's one of those things where , it's so funny cuz it really does look like a South Park version cuz I'm so fat. At the time we made it that it's that, that it just looks like, I call it sign fat. Right. But it was weird cuz if I had guest stars on the show, it would, it would even make it tougher for disbelief, you know, suspending belief or di is it suspending belief or suspending disbelief.Michael Jamin (00:34:03):Suspending disbelief.Frank Caliendo (00:34:05):So, okay, so, so you,Michael Jamin (00:34:07):Yeah. So you're not disbelieving it,Frank Caliendo (00:34:09):Right? So you suspend your disbelief when you see somebody, all the characters look kind of the same. It fits, but all of a sudden you have somebody that looks more like the person because they're skinnier or something like that. A sudden it looks up like, but that Seinfeld thing, it was actually from my, my act was my, the way I did it in my act was I tried to, I always trying to think for the impressions. And so my, my thinking of the Seinfeld bit and my act was Seinfeld is about nothing. It's about reality. It's about everything that happens a reality. Well, what takes you outta reality? So it was drugs. Mm-Hmm. . So I thought put Seinfeld on drugs. And the, the, the bit was why do my fingers look like little people? Who are these people? They doing, they're talking to each other.(00:34:54):They're probably talking about me when I say Jerry, oh, somebody. Hey Jerry, you look like you've been seeing little people on your fingers. That's great. You just let that cat. And then at the end it was Newman and Newman's like, hello Jerry, hello Newman. And she would've lost a sort of Jerry Garcia grateful dead commitment of stamps. She would see them baby . So he'd licked the stamps. You know, that was the bit. So there was reality and it turned back into AED episode. But the whole bit was instead of reality, how do I get into a fantasy world? And that was the easiest way to to, to(00:35:28):Do it. Right.Michael Jamin (00:35:31):Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not gonna spam you and it's absolutely free. Just go to michaeljamin.com/watchlist.(00:35:54):It's fucking, your voices are amazing. I mean, that sounds amazing. But tell me, I have another question up for you. I'm just, I'm curious, I know you're, I actually wanna mention this, so I know you're, you, you got two shows coming up in, in Phoenix, right? Yeah. Where you do, where you go and it stand up, you're doing voices as well, or like, right? OrFrank Caliendo (00:36:11):Yeah. I, I just, what I do is, I'm, I, so what I, what I like to do is, I always hated the vaudevillian impressionist Uhhuh . What if,Michael Jamin (00:36:21):Oh yeah.Frank Caliendo (00:36:23):You know, what if Carrie Grant was your waiter, well, why, why would he be, first of all, that's bad writing, right? ,Michael Jamin (00:36:32):Why would he be your waiter? WhyFrank Caliendo (00:36:33):Would he be a waiter? Remember, years ago, I think it was on the white was it the white album? The that Dennis Miller did? Uhhuh . He's like . He was like and these impressionist, I think Jack Nicholson as a fry cook at McDonald's. I mean, how about you as a fry cook at McDonald's? Chachi, get some writing. You know? So it was it was, I was always like, I wanna write for these characters. So what do would I do? I would make observations. So the way, and that would give me my point of view. So Pacino, he's an actor, right? So I was like, what do act what do they teach you in acting? Be curious. Be amazed by everything. So the simplest thing, Pacino can be amazed. Like somebody's turning on a light. He's like, wait a second, you mean to tell me you flip a switch over there? A light comes on over here. Wow. . So he's amazed by everything. That's the point, right? And that's what my Pacino character always was. And he, and chewing gum. So that'sMichael Jamin (00:37:34):Dead onFrank Caliendo (00:37:34):Man. It's make those, make those observations and then apply them in situations later. So it's observational comedy, but I was just observing how people were. Robert Downey Jr. Is a human. Twitter feed, 280 characters are less and everything's about himself. So he'd give, be giving out an Academy Award, which is supposed to be about the nominees, but the, but he'd be up there like, these people deserve your applause almost as much as I do. Hashtag awesome. So it's, that's the point of view, right? Set it up. That's funny. Bring it back. So once you have that, now you can, now the audience is in on what your point of view is. Now you can put them in situations, which is really what you do with characters in writing. You know, any kind of sitcom or any kind of a, any, you know, any kind of drama, anything.(00:38:25):It just takes longer to get them to who the character is an impression most of the time, and this is why impressions are cut away from acting so much where people think there's no acting in impressions because it's just, you know, somebody, there was Robert De and they work on, are you talking to me? Well, where's the, where's the writing for that? It's the vallian part, right? Come up with something that tells you who the character is. Right. And now write for it. And now it's an interesting character. And that's what you know any type of original character, it just takes longer to get there. And that's why a pilot, right? A television pilot, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, you do this more than me. Let's see. There's a lot more exposition and telling, kind of telling people, okay, hey, I'm just your local waitress. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And they tell you a little bit because they have to do it to get it done. To get it sold. Yeah. And then once it's, once you kind of have it, now you can develop the characters and you have, you have arcs that can build the character to something longer. Yeah. And that's why a lot of pilots get rewritten and redone because the pilot's almost a presentation just to sell it. And it's almost two on the nose. It's a to be what you want.Michael Jamin (00:39:40):But tell me what it's like when you do, like, when you go do a show or two shows, like literally, what is that? Like? You get on a plane, you arrive a couple days before your show, likeFrank Caliendo (00:39:51):The day, usually a day off, the day of just get there. YouMichael Jamin (00:39:55):Do a sound check or no, you just go up on stage likeFrank Caliendo (00:39:58):A theater. I'm probably have the guy opening for me do a sound check. I don't, I don't even, I just go out there and show up and head so I have more energy. I mean, it's just, I like to get out there and just start going. I have a plan. Uhhuh, I have a lot of stuff that I've, I will do that I've done, you know, that I've worked on and done before. But now I try to, I actually like to do clubs a lot more than theaters. Why is that? Because I get to play more and I don't feel, I feel like somebody goes to the theater, you know, they, you feel like they, even though they're not, you feel like it should be a little bit more put together and professional. I feel like at a club, it can,Michael Jamin (00:40:34):A club, you can get heckled. They're not necessarily coming to see you. If you go to a theater, they're coming. They're paying seeFrank Caliendo (00:40:40):Me, 90, 99%. They come to see me at a club. Now if I'm doing a club, yeah. Cuz I'll do like off nights. I'll do like a Tuesday or a Wednesday. The, the general audience isn't going for that. And tickets will sell in advance. I mean, it, it's, that's, that's what I, that's what I likeMichael Jamin (00:40:57):To do. Is, is it theater though? More, more seats usually.Frank Caliendo (00:41:00):Yeah. It's harder to sell. 'em, You, you've gotta figure you're gonna sell. Probably you can probably, cuz people are, they're trained to go to a club and you'll get some people that fill other seats and it'll, it'll snowball. People will talk about it more. Uhhuh . And they have a built in advertising in everybody who goes to that venue. Three or four, you know, five shows a week.Michael Jamin (00:41:20):Interesting.Frank Caliendo (00:41:20):Sees that you're gonna to be there. And they're a comedy audience already. A theater doesn't necessarily have a builtin comedy audience. It might be that's 9%.Michael Jamin (00:41:31):But they're not coming in a comedy club. They might be drunk, they might be hostile, they may heckle. They're not, they're, it'sFrank Caliendo (00:41:38):Not, not, it's not as bad anymore. It's, it, yeah. Most of the clubs are that that's, that's kind of a nineties early two thousands as maybe eighties type of thing. It, that doesn't happen as much anymore because they have so much riding on everything. The clubs used to be, they would you just go there and do a nightclub set and they, they, they'd turn 'em in and out, two drinks, four drinks, and get 'em in and out. Now they're selling them dinner. Uhhuh, they, they, they realize they were given away the five, they were, they're restaurants now that have entertainment. Right. Because they would, they would bring everybody in and nobody, they would give everybody else all the food and beverage around the showtime. And they would, they were realized, well we can do this too. And some of 'em do it. Really,Michael Jamin (00:42:21):Really. But they're not eating during the show. You don't want the meeting show.Frank Caliendo (00:42:24):Yeah, they're,Michael Jamin (00:42:24):Yeah. Yeah. They're, and you're hearing like the silverware and stuff?Frank Caliendo (00:42:27):Yeah, it's, it's, it's usually more of a finger food. But they're, yeah. They're, they're so are some that have full-on, you know, but that, that a lot of that happens during the opener or mc too. By the time I'm up, they're, they're, they're a drinking and they're warmed up and they're, they've gotten their food already.Michael Jamin (00:42:45):And then do you travel with their, with your, with your opener Or is it a local guyFrank Caliendo (00:42:50):Or one? I bring people with me because I know what they're doing. , Uhhuh, . I, I, I'm, I'm a control freak in terms of what's on before me. Right. Because I'm very clean. Even when I try to be dirty, it doesn't work because people wanna see me for being clean. Right. but I've had, I, you know, an opener thinks they're clean and you, you know, I only say that word once, like, wow, that's too many times for some of my audience. Right. Or they, they, they, they, they're not expecting it. Cause they've been there to see me before and I'm the one who's gonna get the emails in the club is. And so I just bring people that I know are gonna play and then I don't have to watch the set over and over and over.Michael Jamin (00:43:31):And then you, and then after you'll you how many shows?Frank Caliendo (00:43:35):Two is the most I'll doing at night, but I'd rather just do one. Right.Michael Jamin (00:43:39):It's exhausting. It's exhausting to hold that kind of attention for pe to people.Frank Caliendo (00:43:43):Yeah, it is. And I just have the point where I, I do it and I have, when I have fun doing it mm-hmm. , that's when I go up and do it. And if I go up and I'm creating some, I'm having fun. If I'm doing an old set just for money and not creating, I'm not having fun. And that happened to me for five to 10 years where I was just doing the same thing all the time. I was making a ton of money Uhhuh. But I think some of my audience got like, well you're doing the same exact set. And it was just going, kind of going through the motions. And I, that wasn't a great time for myself for, you know, me personally. Not like I had anything wrong with family or anything. Like I just wasn't having fun doing the comedy.Michael Jamin (00:44:24):AndFrank Caliendo (00:44:24):Then weMichael Jamin (00:44:25):Will you leave the next day or what, what or I don't wanna cut off. IFrank Caliendo (00:44:28):I used to leave the next morning, first flight to try and get home. Cause I have two little kids right at the time. Two little kids now. They don't like me that much anymore, so. Right. I don't mind going away for a little Do you have kids?Michael Jamin (00:44:39):I do, but they're grown. Yeah. They'reFrank Caliendo (00:44:41):In college. Yeah. So, so you know that, I mean, when they're little, I was missing a lot cuz I was working a lot when they were little. I'd be on the road for a couple weeks at a time. I didn't see my son's first steps. I mean, I just, I didn't like that kinda stuff. SoMichael Jamin (00:44:56):But you knew going into it, when you went to comedy, you knew that that's, that's what the life is gonna be like, right? Or No? Were you surprised? Yeah.Frank Caliendo (00:45:03):But you kind of assume you're gonna go you, you know, you Yes, yes. You do know. But you're also thinking maybe I'll land a TV show, Uhhuh , maybe I'll do, you know, you, you, I don't, and I didn't plan, I didn't plan in the terms of that. But listen, I don't have to work. I honestly don't have to work anymore. I really don't. I I'm, I'm at a point where I don't, so I do things that I really want to. Right. And I, you know, the NFL on Fox stuff, because I was associated with a NFL Hall of Famers and stuff. Like, I do big corporate shows for, you know, oh, do you? For the biggest, for the biggest companies in the world, Uhhuh. And that's, that's what I do. People, you know, I, you, you see one date on the you know, on my public dates, because I live in Phoenix, I don't have to go anywhere.(00:45:52):So I'm just gonna do it. I can do, I can go do it and I can, I can be home. People are asking me to do shows all the time. I'm like and also do a run of one night at different clubs so I can, I don't like looking at the same back of the room for, you know, five or six days. You know, three, four days, five shows. I just, I don't enjoy. So I don't do it. Right. I I I try to do the things now that I like to do. Michael Jamin (00:46:19):I didn't know your feet,Frank Caliendo (00:46:20):So I've saved a lot of money.Michael Jamin (00:46:22):How are you getting acting gigs in if you're all, if you're outFrank Caliendo (00:46:24):There? Well, have you seen me in anything? I don'tMichael Jamin (00:46:27):. That's why.Frank Caliendo (00:46:29):Well, yeah. I don't, I, I don't I go, I go out to la I'll, I'll do some stuff on tape and things like that. Uhhuh , and people ask for me. But I, I, I, you know, yeah, there's, people call me now and I'll get people are like, Hey, will you do this? I'm like, yeah, if I don't have to do it, yeah. Yeah. I just go do it. And I was like, yeah. Like, I just did something recently that was a, a Zoom thing. Like it was actually Zoom in a movie, like a small, you know, like a, a Netflix kinda thing. Like, they're like, you can, you can, you don't even have to come here, you can just do a Zoom thing. And we made, it made the part became bigger. Right. Cause we, you know, I I I call it being serious to the point of being funny where you're just so serious. It's Will, will Ferrell does it really, really well. Right, right. Where you're so serious that it becomes funny. I that's what I, that's the comedy I like. I don't like hail I paid. Right, right.Michael Jamin (00:47:22):Here'sFrank Caliendo (00:47:23):My testicles. That's not the kind of comedy I really like, but it's, a lot of times it's what you have to do to get like the, the funniest thing to me. I like that really uncomfortable stuff in serious. So, better Call Saul, you, are you a fan of that show? Yeah,Michael Jamin (00:47:40):Yeah,Frank Caliendo (00:47:40):Yeah. I like that. Mike Erman Trout.Michael Jamin (00:47:42):Yeah,Frank Caliendo (00:47:43):He's great. Will just odenkirk they will crack me up because it's not, they're not doing anything big and funny per se. They're just in a really awkward situation. But it's, the stakes are so high and it's really important. La Los Salam, monka, you know, it's like, yeah.(00:48:04):All these things are so, like, and stuff Brian Cranston would do on breaking Bad. And you'd watch them and you'd go, ah, like, I'd like to go. God, you're good. I go, that's the stuff that when somebody's just the character and I go, I, I was watching billions. I watched Billions and I started watching Paul Giamati and that's why I started doing that impression, just because I'm like, he's so good. And he's so, I believe these are ways, like, he's just so, like, the intensity and you, you know, you kind of know where he is going before he does, and then he can zig or zag and that's what makes him great. Cause you think you got him pinned down and you're like, oh.Michael Jamin (00:48:51):But, so what's interesting I'm hearing is that, so you have a platform, a stage where you can write, perform pretty much whatever you want to do, but at this point you kind of want someone else just to write for you. And I, I'll, I'll be, I'll just act, you know,Frank Caliendo (00:49:04):That's more of a, and I'll add my pieces if, if that's what you want. Like, I'll add a little flair or that, that's really more what I do wanna do. Yeah. I mean it's, it's, I dunno, I don't want the, this is gonna sound terrible, but it, I, maybe it is, maybe, but after having a couple shows that I developed or, you know, development deals that just fell apart and weren't what I wanted them to be. Mm-Hmm. , I just wanna be in somebody else's who's a real good fighter and go, let's work together. I like being part of a team. Right. And I don't wanna be on a team where somebody wants to do something completely different than me. Right. I don't wanna do that. But if somebody's in the same, in the, in the same wavelength and they're going, and you, you know when that is, can you just start having fun?(00:49:52):You go, that's what I was gonna say. And then you, you do it and they're like, I, I know. Don't even say it. I'm gonna do exactly what you're about to say. Mm-Hmm. , this is it. Don't worry if I don't, we'll shoot it again, but I know what you're gonna say right here. Cuz I saw the light bulb go on with you as soon as it on with me. Here we go. Right. So, yeah. I, that's, I wanna, I wanna be a part of somebody else's thing. That's really, and, and when people think of me, they think I wanna be a one man band. I didn't even wanna be a one man band on my own show. I, I, I, I just, right. I don't know. I, I like being something, I like being part of something bigger. And it doesn't, agents don't always understand that either, because agents a lot of the time, like, you could, you should do your own thing. I'm like, but if I do my own thing, then it's just about me. I'm sick of it being about me. How about it is about,Michael Jamin (00:50:41):I'll tell you this cuz this gets back to Spade, but I'm just, shoot me. He didn't wanna be on screen. If he wasn't, he wanted to hit a home run, walk off, stay stage. I mean, that was it. He didn't need to hang around. He didn't need to count lines, he didn't need to have storylines. He's like, no, just lemme hit a couple home runs and I'll, you know, I'll do what I need to do and then leave.Frank Caliendo (00:50:59):And, you know, and, and you and you're, you're better like that. You're, you're better because you don't look like you're hanging around you. People can't wait to see you come in. Yeah. People know that your part's going to be fun. Now everybody can't be that. You have to have people that are going to drive the show. Right. Right. Arthur on king of Queens. Mm-Hmm. , you know, he is gonna come in from the base and be like, I had no idea this was gonna be this way. By the way, he had one of the greatest Jerry Stiller came up me, I did the Seinfeld bit Montreal at the Montreal Comedy Festival. Uhhuh . Jerry Stiller comes up to me afterward and it's the greatest. Like, this is awesome. He goes, you know, I really enjoyed your show, especially the portion. And I was like, oh, that is, oh, thank you Mr. Stiller. He's like, now could you tell me where the bathroom is? ?Michael Jamin (00:51:49):HeFrank Caliendo (00:51:49):Just wanted to know,Michael Jamin (00:51:50):SaidFrank Caliendo (00:51:51):You just wanted to know when the bathroom was . And that was, I told j I told Ben Stiller that I told him that at, it was, I think it was after his father pass away. I did a show called Birthday Boys. And it was actually, it was, it was really a funny thing. But it was, he was playing a Robin Williams type teacher, dead poet society kind of teacher. Ben Stiller was, who was directed by Bob. Bob. Bob Odenkirk is directing it as a guest director. But it was so awesome. Yeah. see, there's go sir. So I, I, I told, I told that Ben Stiller just the moment he heard it, he's like, , like, like he was almost embarrassed. That's my dad. Like, that's just my dad being my dad. Like, I've been there, man. But I, I remember in that, that was one of my favorite things too. Well the, the thing they wrote is why I wanna tell you this too, was the bit they wrote was he's this, like I said, this dead poet society kind of teacher. But he's going, you know, he's, he's teaching outside the box and he's supposed to be teaching the Diary of Anne Frank, but he's teaching the Diary of Frank Kelly instead .Michael Jamin (00:53:02):Right. It's funny.Frank Caliendo (00:53:03):And, and it's, you know, it's a joke of making fun of me, but I was like, God, just to be in this joke. And Bob Oden is directing and Ben still is doing it. The birthday boys wrote it. It's like, oh. And I made Stiller laugh. Cause when Odenkirk kind of went off the script, he's like, just, he's having Mr. Stiller. No, he's having Ben just tell me. He's like okay. Adam Sandler at a, at a funeral. And I was like, oh grandma, where did you have leave? Where were you? I leaving And then Ben starts cracking up. He's like, I can't go. I can't go out. He stopped. He stopped. And I go, I just, Ben laugh on the set. Oh. I go, this is the greatest day of my life. And Stiller is like, let's get going. You know? He's like, no, he was, he was great. But it was so funny too cause it was a moment for me, like, oh, this is one of the people I look up to is one of the great reactors. Yeah. Like Ben Stiller as funny as he could be presenting somethi

Intro: Even our lungs need a sense of purpose. Let Me Run This By You: Boz is buying a house!Interview: We talk to actor and documentary filmmaker Cullen Douglas about AMDA, Florida School of the Arts, Southeastern Theatre Conference, Tyne Daly, character actors, Jason Priestly, Patricia Crotty, Our Town, Lenny Bruce, Dick Van Dyke, investigative journalism, reusing caskets, David Carr,  Deadwood, playing Bilbo Baggins, being pen pals with Andrea McCardle, singing If I Were A Rich Man,  The Pirates of Penzance, Bye Bye Birdie, Robert Sean Leonard,  Billy Flanigan: The Happiest Man on Earth, Shonda Rhimes, Twin Peaks,  Grey's Anatomy ,  Barry, Bill Hader,  documentary filmmaking, The Humanitas Prize,  Private Practice.FULL TRANSCRIPT (Unedited): 1 (8s):I'm Jen Bosworth Ruez.2 (10s):And I'm Gina Paci.1 (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.2 (15s):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of1 (20s):It all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?3 (33s):TikTok and I started looking at the videos and I was like, Ooh, I don't know about this. I think I need to start wearing wake up. So thank you. You1 (43s):Look gorgeous. How are3 (43s):You doing?1 (44s):Yeah, hi. I'm finally, Many things are happening. Many things are happening. So I finally, even though I'm coughing still little, I finally feel like I am, I like kicked the pneumonia bronchitis situation and little mostly thank you. I, yeah, I, we went away and then to Ventura and I slash Ojai and I really rested and I really, there was one day I worked, but I really mostly rested and I just really was like, okay, I need actual ass downtime. And yeah.1 (1m 25s):And then I started to heal and I was also on praise God for antibiotics. And then the thing that really helped me really kick it was I hadn't exercised my lungs in a really long time at all because I was so sick that I just was like, Who wants to like walk or, and, and it was 107 degrees, so it's like, who wants to exercise in that? So my cousin, my sister came in town, I, that's like a big eyebrow raise for, to drop my niece off to college. And we went on a hike to Griffith, but like a sloping hike, not a crazy hike. And I was like, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do it.1 (2m 5s):And it actually helped my lungs to like feel like they were contributing to fucking something and me like Forgot I3 (2m 16s):Like a sense of purpose. Right,1 (2m 17s):Right. And also like to, yeah, to have a job. And they were like, like to be exercised and I was like, Oh, I forgot that. Like the lungs. And, and it's interesting in this whole covid situation, like the lungs need to work too. And I never understood in hospitals, cuz I spent quite a long time in them, why they have those breathing like tube things that you blow the ball and the ball floats up. You have to, I thought that was so dumb until I had bronchitis and pneumonia and I was like, Oh, they have to work. Like they have to be expanded. If you don't use them and work them, they get, it's not good when,3 (2m 58s):When my dad, you know, my dad had this really bad car accident when I was like nine years old and yeah, he rolled 40 times and he wasn't wearing a seatbelt, which saved his life because he was in a convertible. But of course the reason he got into the accident was because he was drinking anyway. He broke everything. Like he broke six ribs and he had one of, he had to spend one year lying on an egg crate mattress on the floor one year. And for the rest of his life, every time he sneezed or coughed it hurt his ribs. But he,1 (3m 34s):Oh, and he3 (3m 36s):Had one of of those things like you're talking about. And as a child I could not get it to the height that I was supposed to go. I shuder to think what it would be like right now. Yes. So you're, that was a good reminder to exercise our lungs. I make sure my breathing capacity is good1 (3m 54s):And, and, and even wait and, and it's like, I always literally thought, oh, you exercise to be skinny. That is the only, only reason no other, like, if you had asked me, I'd say, Oh, there's no other reason. What are you talking about? But now I'm like, oh, these parts of us need actual exercising. Literally lie. I just, it blew my mind.3 (4m 19s):I was lies1 (4m 21s):The lies.3 (4m 22s):It's endless. Yes.1 (4m 27s):Hey, let me run this by you. Oh, I think we're buying a house. What? This is the craziest Oh my not in, Yeah. Okay. This is what went down. So this is so crazy. Miles' job stuff has evened out in terms of like, there's just so much going on that I can't talk about, but which is makes for terrible radio, but podcasting. But anyway, the point is we're we're a little stable, so we went to Ventura and I was like, I fucking love this town. I love Ventura. It's an hour away. It's a weird like, think lost boys, right? Like Lost Boys. The movie is, is really Santa Cruzi, but like, that's what this town reminded of.1 (5m 9s):It's not, so it's Adventurer county, so it's like an hour northwest. It's on the beach. And I was like, I love this town. I I I love it here. There's so many brown folk. It's heavily, heavily you Latina. And it's like, so anyway, I was like, I love it, but I bet I can't afford it like anywhere in California. Well it turns out that Ventura is about 500,000 less on a house than la. So I was like, wait, what? So we saw this darling house that was, that is was small but like beautiful craftsman and you know, I'll just say I'll be totally transparent with $729,000, which is still a shit ton of money.1 (5m 49s):But I looked at the same exact property almost in, in, in Pasadena for 1.3 million for two bedroom, one bath. Yeah. Two bedroom, one bath got preapproved. I've never been preapproved for anything in my goddamn light. We got preapproved for a mortgage. I couldn't, Gina, I couldn't. But when we got the preapproval letter, like I literally, speaking of lies, I was like, okay, well just expect him to come back and say we can't do anything for you.3 (6m 17s):Yeah, right.1 (6m 19s):Just really know it's not gonna work. And he wrote back and was like, Here's what we can do on this house the mortgage wise and it's comparable. It's in the ballpark of what we're paying in rent. And I was like, I don't wanna be going into my middle aged and later years in no space.3 (6m 39s):It really takes a toll. It really takes a toll on your psyche in a way that you can't really account for until you go from no space to having space. And then you go, oh my gosh, there's these three specific muscles in my shoulders that have been tense for the entire time I've been living in a city, you know, decades in some1 (6m 56s):Cases. So it's a whole different, I could build a little studio, like all the things. So yeah. So I'm grateful. Never would occur to me, never would have occurred to me. Never.3 (7m 6s):Do you care to say anything about your sister's visit?1 (7m 10s):Well, you know what is yes. And what is so comforting to me again, you know, if you listen to this podcast you're like, Oh my god, Jen, shut up. But about the truth. Okay. The truth is the fucking truth of, and even, even if it changes from person to person, that person's truth is the truth. And my truth is, I feel, So she came and she stayed not with me because I just, that what we were outta town. And then she stayed in my house while we were gone, which was fine with her, with my niece for one night. And then I saw her one day and that was, that was fine. And then she stayed with my cousin and it was, let's just say it was very, the, for me, my experience was, oh, someone else besides me sees the challenges.1 (7m 60s):And that's what I will say about that. There is something about being witnessed and having someone else go. I see, I feel what you're talking about.3 (8m 11s):Yes. Oh, I, I relate very deeply to that because people who are good at1 (8m 19s):Image image management,3 (8m 22s):At image management, a term I like is apparent competent.1 (8m 26s):Oh yes. Oh yes. I love that. I've never heard that. Apparent, competent. That is it.3 (8m 30s):Yes. Many, many people in life are apparently competent because all of their energy and effort goes into projecting very much just that idea and to be at home with them is a completely different thing. And I'm not saying like, Oh, you should always be competent in all areas of life or that I'm competent in all areas of life. I'm just saying like, yeah, there, there are some, some forms of personality disorders and just like, not even that, but just interpersonal problems are so kind of covert. And they're so, because I feel like people say, I feel like people are always trying to look for like the most broad, you know, big actions to determine whether somebody is1 (9m 13s):Whatever, nurse, whatever. They haven't been hospitalized, they've never been in rehab, they still have a house. You're like,3 (9m 20s):What? It's the same kind of mentality that says if you're not like in the gutter with a, with a mad dog in a paper bag that you're not an alcoholic, you know, it completely ignores probably what 85% of alcoholic for, which is highly functioning Correct. People who don't miss work and Correct. You know, maybe even people in their lives would never, ever know that they had a drinking problem. So yeah. So that is validating. I'm happy that for you, that you had that experience and sometimes it takes like 20, 30 years to get that validation. But the truth always, I mean, you know, it's true. That's the thing. It comes to the surface eventually.1 (9m 56s):Well, and the other thing is, I now as where I used to be so afraid of the truth and I still am, look, I I don't like getting, we know this about me, my feedback is hard for me. I'm scared of all the things, but I used to run from the truth like nobody's business in my own ways. Now I sort of clinging to it as, wait a second, wait a second, what is the truth of the matter? Like what are the facts here? Because I feel like that is the only way for me to not get kaka go, go crazy. And it is comforting. I am comforted in knowing that. Like, it was interesting. So I also am taking a solo show, writing class, I'm writing a new solo show, my third one.1 (10m 41s):And I'm just started and I thought, let me take a class with the woman who I taught. I did the first one in oh four in LA with, anyway, but I was saying on Facebook, like I, I, I'm taking this class with Terry and she's magic and I'm so glad I'm doing it and da da da. And she was like, Hey, I have a question for you. Can I quote you? And I was like, Yes. Because in her, in her like, for a and I said, of course it's all true. Like I didn't have to worry that my quote was somehow dirty or misleading or like, not really what I felt like I've done that so much in my life in the past where I've been like, oh shit, I told them I loved them or I loved their stuff, or I loved and I feel inside totally incongruent with that kind of thing.1 (11m 30s):No, I was like, no, these are what, these are my words now. I try to, it doesn't always work, but I try to just be like, okay, like what is the truth? And if someone had to quote me, would I be okay? And I, and I am a lot of the time I was like, of course you can. It's what I, I'm thanking for asking, but also it's what I feel in my bones about that, that you, that you have a magic when it comes to solo show teaching. That's it, it that is the truth. That my,3 (11m 55s):That is so cool. It's cool that you're doing that and I'll, that it, that gave me a reminder I had wanted to say on this podcast because you know, we had Jeremy Owens on the podcast. Yes. And he recently put on his social that he, he was doing it kind of as a joke, but I think he's actually doing it now, which is doing another solo show. And I had messaged him to say, you know, I meant what I said when I told you that you should do this and that I would help you and that goes for anybody cuz I said, I've said that to a lot of people on this podcast. Like, if you need help, you know, if this conversation has reinspired in you, a desire to go and do this other creative thing, please, I'm not saying like, I'm gonna co-write it with you.3 (12m 37s):I'm saying like, let me know if there's something I can do, if I can read it or, or, or bounce it off of you so that that stands for any of our previous guests. But tell us more about what, what's it gonna be about, what are you gonna be talking about? Well,1 (12m 51s):I don't entirely know, but where I'm leading is, it was interesting in this, See the thing I forgot means is that I like writing exercises. I never do them on my own. I never do. So this, she does writing exercises and a meditation before and I really longed and craved that because I spend so much of my hustle these days. How can I bring in income? How can I advance my career in Hollywood? And that is really shuts down the play aspect of all things. And I'm not saying, you know, I'm not saying that you, that I I'm not saying it's bad. All I'm saying is it totally eliminates for me the create like the really raw fun play creativity.1 (13m 37s):Okay? So in this, in this class, I just took it like, I just took the class. I was like, I'll do it. It's a masterclass in solo work, I'll do it. I like her. She called me, I was on the freeway and I was like, I'll do it. So right now the working title is, and also a solo show more or less. And I don't know if that's gonna change, but it is. Like I, and, and then in the exercise we did, we had our first class Sunday, it was all about, I realized that this solo show needs to be for me more of a call to action that that we, the, and it really comes from something you said, which is, I'm paraphrasing, but it's like we are our only hope, which is the good news and the bad news.1 (14m 25s):So like you said, we are the problem, I am the problem. Which is great. And also the, you know, terrible. So that is sort of this solo show is more gonna be about, it's like more activism based, but in a like creative arts activism way and, and not just a funny antidotes about my wacky family. And I mean, I would argue we could argue that like that my last solo show did have that underneath. But I think there needs to be a more like call to action for artists and people like us to start doing the things in the arts world that are gonna like help save the planet. And I don't know what that means yet, but she was like, oh this is like more of an activism piece based on what you're like it has that component to it.1 (15m 11s):And I was like, yeah. And then she said, if there was a banner, we did these cool exercise, she said, there's a banner all over town, whatever town you're in advertising your show, what would it say? And what came to mind in the meditation was it would be a red banner and it would just say, and it would say hope. And then in parentheses it would say sort of, So what I realized is I'm obsessed with the parentheses, like that's where I live. So I live in the world of I love my life parentheses, it's a fucking nightmare. So I love that kind of thing in my writing. And so I was like, okay, I'm really gonna embrace that. So it's like, it's like that, that stuff, I don't know where it's gonna go. I don't know what it's gonna happen.3 (15m 52s):Well two things. One is you have actually thrown out quite a few excellent titles for show, for solo shows. You'll periodically be like, that's the title of my new book or that's the title of my next, my next solo show. Yeah. So you might have to give a little re-listen to some episodes. I wish I could tell you which1 (16m 11s):I will.3 (16m 12s):Okay. The other thing is something that just came up for me when you said about the parenthesis, which I know exactly what you're talking about. I was saying like, oh yeah, she wants to show the good, the bad and the ugly. Oh. And something that occurred to me was like this concept of underbelly. Like you're showing yes, your soft underbelly. We are, I mean when I think when a person is maturing into themselves, that's what, that's the goal is to get to first accepting your own soft underbelly and then also contending with it and then representing it to the world. Because the thing that I've been on recently is like I have done myself and nobody else any favors for the amount of time I've spent misrepresenting myself because my misrepresenting myself has all been based on the lie that I thought there is a person that you are supposed to be, and your job is to be that person and you know, instead of like figure out the person that you are.3 (17m 10s):So, you know, coming into your own power is, is is a lot what we spend, what I spent my thirties about, like coming into your own power and not say that I arrived at it, but that No,1 (17m 23s):But3 (17m 24s):You about that. And then I think my forties are more about coming into my own vulnerability and that both of those things are really two sides of the same coin. Your power and your vulnerability, right? Because you can't have any power unless you're being honest about, you know, what the situation is. Today we are talking to Colin Douglas. Colin Douglas is an actor, writer, director, and documentary filmmaker who has been on absolutely everything. Most recently you've seen him on Barry and I love that for you.3 (18m 4s):But he's been, I joke in the, in our interview that he's been an absolutely every television show ever made. And that's only a slight exaggeration. He's been on Grey's Anatomy and Private Practice and the 2017 revival of Twin Peaks Agents of Shield, Pure genius. He's just been on everything Deadwood. So he's very experienced, he's very wise and he's very warm. So I hope you enjoy our conversation with Colin Douglas.0 (18m 34s):Great.3 (18m 36s):So congratulations Colin Douglas, you survived theater school. You survived4 (18m 42s):Two3 (18m 42s):Theater schools as a matter of fact.4 (18m 45s):I did. I was a glut for punishment actually. Yes. I I couldn't get enough of it.3 (18m 50s):So it was a BFA and MFA both in acting?4 (18m 54s):No, you know what, it was a zero degree. I, I am still just kind of riding by the seat of my pants. I actually, when I attended amda, it was not a degree program yet. Now it is. But back in the day it was basically they just kind of said, okay, go audition. And then when I went to Florida School, the arts, it only had an AA degree and I literally am still to this day two credit shy of my degree because I had booked a job out of Sctc and it was gonna be starting and I was like, I'm not sitting around and getting my degree just so that I can go get a job.4 (19m 42s):So I went, I took the job and I never looked back.1 (19m 45s):I mean that is, here's, I was just talking to someone who went to the theater school last night, my friend Lindsay. And we were talking about how conservatory I wish, I wish that I had done things differently, but it is what it is. But what you are reminding me of just go and audition is like the most valuable piece of advice anyone could have given us, which we never got. Which was now you, the piece of paper that says you have a BFA is not for not, but it's also not, it doesn't directly correlate to getting jobs. Like, it just doesn't. So you, you got a job while you were in school and said, I'm going, you didn't even think about staying or how did that work in your brain?4 (20m 30s):Well it was, it was because I was literally just the two credit shy kind of thing. And actually the class was, it was sort of a lab where I, you know, I had to help strike sets, but I was so busy with doing shows that I never had time to go help out with strike. So it was one of those things, oh okay, I'll, I'll require, I'll get that when I can get it when I have the time. And I never did. And then the tour was starting before the fall session started and I was like, you know what? My only regret honestly was the fact that I felt like, and, and again, it's not, you know, if somebody were to ask me today, you know, should you go to theater school?4 (21m 16s):I would say yes, if that's what really where you wanna hone your craft if you wanna, you know, build your community, but don't, if you're gonna do something like that, go to a program that has an established alumni because that's where your connections are being made when you get out of school is that support network that you have at amda at the time, there really wasn't, you know, when I was there, the biggest sort of claim to fame at the time was Time Daily. She was a graduate of, of Amda. And so it was, it wasn't as if I could reach out to Time Daily all of a sudden.4 (21m 59s):And then Florida School, the arts was, and still is such a small arts school that there really wasn't anybody for me to reach out to. Had I gone to Northwestern, had I gone to Juilliard or Yale or, or or Tish, that I would've had a built-in network of working professionals on the outside. So that was my only regret in that, that if I had perhaps gone to a different theater school, maybe I would've had those connections. But I certainly got the education I felt I needed.3 (22m 34s):Well and also you got the connections while getting paid instead of having to pay, which is was just definitely preferable. And by and speak about, you know, work experience and getting connections. You have been on every television show that has ever existed and tons of films too. So was your experience that as soon as you started working, you were just off to the races? I mean, I'm not suggesting that it's easy because no life of an actor is easy, but have, has it been pretty consistent for you would you say for your career?4 (23m 10s):It's been consistently inconsistent in that,1 (23m 16s):Wait, I just have to say that has to be the name of your book. Okay. I, we were talking about earlier before you got on about titles of shows and books, your book could be consistently inconsistent. The Culin Douglas story, I'm just, I'm just putting it out there. Thank you. Please send me 10% check to my office.4 (23m 32s):Yeah, thanks. No, it really, it was one of those things that I, I had a very dear professor at Florida School of the the Arts, Patricia Kadi, she was the acting instructor there and I was doing all of the plays, I was in all of the productions there and I had kind of become the top dog in the school, so to speak. And she pulled me aside one day and she said, you know, the one thing you're gonna have to realize is you're probably not gonna start working professionally until you're in your thirties.4 (24m 13s):And I, and I didn't really understand what she was saying there. What she was basically commenting on was that I was a young character actor and I didn't look like Jason Priestly, I didn't look and yet I hadn't grown into my framer look either. So I was gonna be in this really sort of, where do we cast him? He's talented but we don't know where to put him. And so I did a lot of theater for a lot of years and then in my thirties is when I was able to transfer into television and film. So what, cause I finally had kind of caught up to my look.1 (24m 45s):Yeah. So what I appreciative aid about that is it sounds like she said it so she said it in a way that wasn't like being a jerk, right? Like my experience was feeling that way except having it told like there is something deficient in you so that you cannot be an ingenue cuz you're too fat, you're too this. So instead of, hey, go do some theater, do all the things and then you'll grow into your look, do not fret. This is like part of the technical side of the business of how a camera sees you and not about your talent. It would've been so much different. Instead it comes down to, I think a lot of people we've talked to from the DePauls, from the Northwestern say, nobody told me that in a way which was, I could make a plan about it.1 (25m 35s):It was always just, well you're never gonna be cast. So by, and instead of hey maybe you could do theater, maybe you could write, maybe you could do something else until Hollywood catches up to the character of you.4 (25m 50s):Exactly.1 (25m 51s):It good, Patricia. Good. Is Patricia still around?4 (25m 54s):She is. And she literally just announced today that she's retiring from teaching. Well1 (25m 60s):Patricia, you did good work and you she did fantastic. You made it so call in part of it sounds like she encouraged you cuz you started with that story of her encouraged you to know that maybe later it would be your time to be on every single television show ever written. But for the twenties and the, you know, you were gonna do some theater and, and get your training right man, and,4 (26m 23s):And I honestly, I didn't completely understand everything she was saying in that little sound bite because, you know, I was, I was sort of standing there saying, Patty, look at all these job offers. I just got out of CTCs, you know, I'm gonna be working like crazy. And she said, No, no, no, don't get me wrong that the work is going to be there. But as far as what you're seeing in your mind's eye of, you know, Helen Douglas tonight on The Tonight Show, that's not gonna happen until you can kind of get into that other stream as it were. How3 (27m 0s):So did that match up? I mean, was that a surprise to you or did that match up with what you already thought about yourself? I don't think any 17 year old, 18 year old necessarily thinks of themselves as a character actor. Although it may just be because it never gets put to you that that's an option when you're a teenager. You know, the option is like, as Bos mentioned, Ingenu or not Ingenu, but they never really say like, Well, but you, you know, you're gonna fit into this different mold. So how did that butt up against what you already thought about yourself?4 (27m 32s):It actually kind of lined up okay with me in, in a weird way because at Florida School, the arts in particular, they were so gracious in the fact that when they picked their seasons, they picked shows that it made sense for me to be the lead in, in that I, I'm giving you an example, we did a production of Our Town and I was the stage manager and, you know, as opposed to being cast as the one of the young, you know, lead ingenue kind of a things. And then we did Bye by Birdie and I was cast in the Dick Van Dyke role.4 (28m 12s):And so they did it in such a way that, you know, or when we did Barefoot in the Park, I was Victor Velasco the old man who lived upstairs. So I was already sort of being primed that I was this character actor and would be gonna be doing that kind of stuff. And then quite honestly, as that look started to emerge, I mean in college I had sort of a flock of seagulls kind of hairdo thing going on, you know, and then it quickly all went away. And I had been playing about 20 years older in film and television and in theater than I've actually always been, you know, I was playing guys in my, when I was in my, you know, thirties, I was playing guys in my fifties.4 (28m 59s):Now I'm in my fifties and I'm playing guys in my in1 (29m 1s):In seventies. And I think that calling, the thing that I'm noticing too is like maybe for men it's a little different too, right? Like there's something about being, like, there's just, and it's a societal thing where like women who are play, like, it's, it's a insult for women when they're like, Oh, we're sending you in for a 50 year old and you're 30. But, and I think maybe if you have a certain kind of ego for a man as well, and we all have egos, I mean, it says, but, and I, I love the fact that you didn't, it doesn't sound like anyway, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, you took it as an insult that they were, that you were going out for roles that were for like the Victor Velasco of the world. You were able to embrace it as you were working.1 (29m 43s):Like that's, so I say this all to say, because I remember in our last class with Jim Ooff, who people call hostile prof and he said to me, You know who you are. And I was like, dying to hear you are Michelle Pfeiffer. That was never gonna happen. But I was dying to hear, he was like, That's who you, he's like, you are the next. And I'm waiting and, and I'm waiting. He goes, Lenny Bruce. And I was like, what the actual fuck is going on? What are you telling me?3 (30m 13s):No idea. What a great compliment that was.1 (30m 15s):I was devastated, devastated. I wanted to quit. I was suicide. Like it was just, But anyway, so what I'm saying is you didn't take that and run with it in a way that was like, I am not Jason Priestly and therefore my life is over. You were able to work and, and embrace the roles. It sounds like4 (30m 34s):I was able to embrace the roles and, and I was getting, okay, you are a young dick fan dyke, you're a young, this kind of a guy. So I was able to kind of make that connection. I honestly were being completely honest here. I think, how do I put this, that it does not sound completely like an asshole. It1 (30m 54s):Doesn't matter. We always sound like assholes here. Go ahead.4 (30m 57s):But at Florida school, the arts, I was one of, I was one of the only straight men at school and therefore undated a lot. So I was not, the fact that I wasn't looking like the young hot stud,1 (31m 22s):You were still getting it4 (31m 23s):Right? I was still getting it. So that didn't it, had it not been like that situation, I think I probably would've started to hyperventilate thinking, well hold it, I'm in my twenties, why are they making me play these old men? And this is affecting, you know, cus group. But that wasn't the case. And so I, I had sort of a, a false sense of ego I guess a little bit. But it was supporting the work that I was doing.3 (31m 50s):Yeah, absolutely. So did you grow up always knowing that you wanted to be an actor? Did you think, did you try any other paths first? Or were you, were you dead set on this?4 (32m 2s):I was dead set when the story goes, that when I was four I asked Santa for a tuxedo to wear to the Emmys and Santa delivered gave me a, a white dinner jacket and spats and stuff like that. So I was, I was ready to go.1 (32m 18s):Oh my god, do you have that picture? Can you please send us that?4 (32m 22s):Oh no, we have moved so many times. When I was growing up, my dad, when I was growing up was an undercover investigative reporter. And so wherever he was basically undercover was where we were living. Wait1 (32m 36s):A minute, wait a minute. Wait a minute, wait. Okay. This is fantastic because I do a lot of crime writing and so does Gina writes and undercover crime reporter father now, right there is sort of burying the lead. What in the hell? He was an undercover, What does that even mean? An undercover, He's not a police officer, but he's an undercover reporter.4 (32m 57s):He was an undercover investigative reporter. Well, what that for a period of time, So I'll give you an ex, there was a senator at one time back in the early seventies who was receiving kickbacks from his employees or hiring people on the books. And those people weren't actually having jobs. And so they would then send him the money. He was getting all of the money.1 (33m 24s):Sure. Like Chicago was like living in Chicago all time.4 (33m 28s):So the, somebody tipped my father off that this was happening. And so he went undercover and, and worked as sort of like an aid and things like that. Or there was a time where he, he worked at a meat packing place or he worked at a funeral parlor that was selling caskets with fake bottoms. And so people would buy these incredibly expensive things and then they would drop them and then they'd open up the hatch and the body would just drop into a pine box and then they would reuse the, the casket.1 (34m 8s):So this is the single greatest thing I've ever heard in my life, and I'm gonna write a pilot about it immediately called Fake Bottom. And it's4 (34m 14s):Gonna see, I've already wrote that was, I actually wrote a spec pilot. That's how I landed my lid agent. Oh, it was because what ended up happening is my dad, much to my mom's chagrin, used me in two of his undercover stings when I was a kid. One time, there was a situation where firemen had been hired and they weren't actually properly trained. It was another one of those kind of kickback situations. So it was a training session and they, I was supposedly, it was a staged event where they were gonna try to test the skills of the firemen or whatever.4 (34m 55s):And so I was gonna, I I practiced with a real fireman being fireman carried up and down a ladder from a second story kind of a thing. But once the word was out that it was an internal sting, they put me into one of those crane baskets. And so I was sort of floating over midtown in, in the basket kind of a thing. And then another time actually, there was a talent agent who was running a kitty porn ring. And so I was sort of used to expose, so to speak, this this person that was actually trying to take advantage of, of kids and parents.3 (35m 38s):Oh my God. Well, two things occur to me about that. One is your family was already full of drama before you came along. I mean, anybody who wants to, right, who wants to do this investigative journalism, Like that's, that's a dramatic person. I love David Carr. I love that kind of personality of per, you know, the person who wants to like really get in there, investigate and just as an aside, like, I'm sorry for the families who paid for those coffins, but at the same time, you know, good, good on them because it's such a waste. So much, many people spent putting mahogany boxes into the ground to to, to, to decompose over time. Okay. So did your parents like that you wanted to be an actor or did they have a different idea for plan for you?4 (36m 19s):Oh, they, they were 100% supportive. The very, very much so from day one, I think, because it was my mom who really sort of stepped in and said, Hey, let's figure out how we can get this new kid who's always the new kid to find his people. And so she took me when I was 11 years old to a local community theater, children's community theater. And they were doing a production, a musical version of The Hobbit. And you know, the intention was that I was just gonna audition and be, you know, number 40 in the background kind of a thing.4 (37m 0s):Third,3 (37m 1s):Third habit from the left,4 (37m 3s):Third habit from the, And so they auditioned and I remember you had to sing a song and God, I have not told this story, you had to sing a song. And I decided to sing tomorrow from Annie because I was me madly, deeply in love with Andrea Ricardo. And we were actually pen pals. And so I went in there and I sang tomorrow and jump cut to that weekend. And my mom came in Saturday morning smiling as I was watching cartoons and she said, You've been cast in the lead as Bill Bos. And that was sort of like, okay, I I I found my people.3 (37m 47s):That's amazing. Please tell us more about your penal with,4 (37m 54s):So I, I just, I, you know, I I had gotten the album when it came out and I listened to it and I memorized it. And even then I was casting myself as either Rooster or Daddy Warbuck, you know. And so somehow I found her address and sent her, you know, a, a letter as we used to write, you know, before texting. And she wrote back and then I wrote back, and then the thing that was really exciting was 20,3 (38m 28s):Wait a minute, are you married to Annie?4 (38m 31s):No, I am not married to Annie. Okay. But 20 some odd years later I was doing a national tour and staying in a hotel in Hershey, Pennsylvania. Andrea was on tour doing a national tour and was staying in the same hotel, kind of bumped into one another and was like, you know, you don't know who I am, but this. And it ended up, it was wonderful because I went to see her show on my dark night and she and her family came to see me on, on the other night. So.1 (39m 7s):Beautiful. Okay, so here we go. Your family's on board and why didn't you just go and strike it out either in New York or anywhere? Why did you end up going to school? Were you like, I wanna learn more, or how did that transition into schooling go?4 (39m 24s):It did, I did wanna learn more. It, it really was because up at that point, the only influences as far as acting I was going was from, you know, the, either the community theater directors or the high school drama teacher who had, you know, aspirations for theater, but was really just doing it because he didn't wanna coach the football team. So I felt like I needed a stronger foundation for myself. And, but always it was sort of like I was going to the theater school because I didn't feel like, Oh, I don't wanna go to a school where I'm gonna have to learn all of these other things that I'm not gonna ever use.4 (40m 7s):Now I look back and go, you know, I wish I had done some of that other stuff because I did not create any kind of a fallback plan for me. It would, this is either gonna work or it's not gonna work and you're gonna be screwed. I1 (40m 21s):Mean, here's the thing, here's the thing. I don't know what you, you two think, but like, there is this two schools of, well there's probably a bajillion schools of thought, but one of them is like, if you have a fallback plan, you will fall back. The other one is not everyone is gonna be a Colin Douglas or a John C. Riley that's gonna work, work, work, work, work, work, work. So a fallback plan for some of us might have been like another avenue to get into the industry, right? But a fallback plan can also literally have people go and not live their dreams and become, you know, actuary scientists because they're afraid. So it's like, it's so individual, which is why I think theater school training is so tricky is because you're taking young individuals who don't know shit and some know what they wanna do, some don't, some are good, some are talented, but not, it's so individual.1 (41m 10s):So it's like when people ask me, should I go to theater school? I'm like, I fucking don't know who, I'm like, who are you and what do you wanna do on the planet? But nobody ever asked me that as a 17 year old. So here we are. Gina, you were gonna say something? Oh,3 (41m 23s):I was just going, if you remember your audition,4 (41m 30s):My audition into theater school. Okay. So I do, I remember my audition into anda a, and again, I already recognizing I was a character actor. I sang if I were a rich man from Fiddler on the Roof, you know, you know, a skinny ass, you know, kid from, you know, suburbia singing that song. And then I did a monologue from a play that I had done in high school. And which1 (42m 9s):One do you remember? Or No,4 (42m 10s):It's okay. It was it, yes. No, actually it was weird because I look back on it now kind of thinking how the soul sometimes prepares. I think sometimes it was a, from a show called Juvie, and I played a young gentleman who was mentally challenged and I got a lot of incredible feedback from, from the role because I had researched, I had, I had gone to the library and this is, there was a thing called Microfish when you would go to the library and you'd have to look up stories on kind of like a big machine. And I did all of these kind of things and research the roles, and I saw images of babies and young people with different kind of cognitive delays.4 (42m 60s):And so I did that. I got into Amda, whatever, again, sort of jumping forward in life. In 1996, my oldest son was born and he happened to be born with Down syndrome. And when I met him for the first time at the bassinet, I immediately went back to that Microfish machine in high school and remembered seeing babies and images of people with Down syndrome. And so I made that kind of connection. So it was sort of like, all right, this is where life was going as far as Florida School, the arts went, I actually didn't audition for that.4 (43m 43s):What had happened is I was at, and I broke my foot during one of the dance classes. They would bring in dance captains from various Broadway shows and teachers routines. And we were doing a routine from cats and I jumped off of a piling and I came down flat for,1 (44m 5s):Let me tell you something. This is what, this is just one of the many reasons I don't care for that musical is that also what are you having people jumping around for that? Aren't I just, anyway, I'm glad they brought, I'm sure it was a great experience in some ways, but like, I just don't care for, that was my first musical I saw. And I even as a kid, I was like, I don't buy this at all. I don't know what's going on here, but I don't like it. But anyway, so you busted your foot. Oh, and can I just say about microfiche? I'm sorry to be an asshole, but like, I could never figure out how to slow the fucking shit down and I never could see a goddamn story, so I gave up on the microphone, so you made it further than me. I was like, why is it going too fast? That was my, that's like, like, that's like so indicative of my life. But anyway, so okay, so you, you broke your foot and so what happened?1 (44m 49s):You had to, why did you4 (44m 50s):So I, I, I broke my foot, I went home to my parents' place who were now living in Florida and kind of rehabbed for a while. I then auditioned for a play for Pirates of Penza, excuse me, that was up, up performances up near St. Augustine, Florida. And I went up there and I was playing Samuel the the second pirate. And the gentleman who was playing the modern major general in the show was actually the dean and artistic director of Florida School of the Arts. And he said to me, If you'd like to come to school, we'll offer you a full scholarship and you can start at the, as soon as the show closes.4 (45m 38s):And so that's what I did. It was like, I just went straight to Flos Bureau Arts and I did not go back up to Amda after my footed here. Helen,1 (45m 45s):It's really interesting, like, and I was talking about, this was someone else yesterday about how one, obviously one thing leads to the next, Oh it was a showrunner actually, that was that I was listening to a lecture and she just said that what I've done is I have walked through doors that have opened to me without a lot of second guessing. I followed my heart in terms of who took interest in me and who opened doors for me. I walked through them. I didn't say no, but, or no, I just did it. And so it sounds like that's what you did. You were like, Oh, full ride, I'm in Florida now. You could have been like, No, no, no, I'm gonna go back to Amda because whatever.1 (46m 26s):But you were like, I'm gonna do this. And it sounds like it worked in your favor, but what was your experience like at Florida? Did you, I mean obviously we know you left early, but did you get stuff out of it? Did you love it? What was the deal?4 (46m 41s):I did love it in the sense that because it was such a small school and because where the school is located, it's in Plac of Florida, which is sort of geographically in the middle of sort of Jacksonville and Gainesville. And so on a Friday night there really wasn't any partying going on. It was all of us getting together and doing monologues for one another, you know, because there wasn't any place to really go. And then as far as the classes went, because it was such a small institution, so many of my classes were literally just myself and professor in their office.4 (47m 26s):And we would do, you know, that's how I learned dialects was literally just, you know, we were working on the Italian dialect or whatever and I would go in and the professor would speak to me in that Italian dialect and then I would have to answer him and that would be the entire class. And then the next week we would do the brooklynese. And so I had all of that and they were very, very gracious to me because when I came in as quote a freshman, I was taking all of the freshman courses, but then they also had me taking all of the second year acting courses as well, sort of accelerating me through the program and then allowing that by doing that I was able to be cast in all of their different productions.3 (48m 15s):So when you did school and enter the workforce, what surprised about sort of the business that maybe you weren't expecting or hadn't been prepared for? For in terms of your training or, you know, and it could have been a happy surprise or, or, or not such a happy surprise, but like what was some I always just feel like there's, people have their list of things. Oh, I never thought the one that people always bring up as coverage, I never thought, when I watched TV shows that they had to do the same thing 50 times.4 (48m 58s):I, I think for, for me, the biggest sort of, even though Patty Crotty, Patricia Crotty had said, you know, Hey, it's gonna be a while before you're gonna start to work. You know, although I did work immediately when I got outta school, it was, it was one of those things where I quickly realized that they really didn't care that I had played Albert and by by Birdie they didn't care that I was in all of the productions. It was basically, no, you've earned the right to stand in the back of a line and you're gonna have to, you know, get up at an ungodly hour, go to equity, sign in at 6:00 AM and then come back at two in the afternoon for your audition.4 (49m 47s):But by the time you come back, if you pick up backstage, you're gonna read that Robert Strong Leonard has already been offered the role that you're auditioning for at two o'clock. So those were sort of some of the realities of, oh, okay, this is not necessarily gonna be the projecting thing that's gonna get me into the room. It's just, it's gonna be more for me that, okay, I feel like I deserve to be here and I'm competent enough in my abilities. But I, I think that was as far as just working in general. But Gina, to answer the question as far as like the thing that I was most surprised by within the industry, I'm, I'm trying to think if there was anything that I really was sort of taken aback by,1 (50m 31s):Well I guess I can ask like, did you, what was your like, like in terms of getting an agent and all that, did anything there go like, Oh my gosh, I didn't understand that I would have to, How did your representation come about? Was that a surprise or did you just get an agent? Cause a lot of our listeners, some of them we talk, you know, we talk about like a showcase or, but you left early and just started working, so what was that transition like in terms of getting representation and going on, on auditions for film and TV or theater? And if you think of anything that surprises you along the way, just let us know. But sure,4 (51m 4s):I didn't have theatrical, I didn't have legit theater representation for a lot of years. I was literally very lucky in that, you know, just using relationships, you know, to help propel me into the next situation that one show would be closing and I would hear about the fact that they were looking for something else. Or I would go to the Southeastern Theater conference and audition and be able to pick up my next year or year and a half worth of work. And I was able to kind of keep it at that point. I finally did get an agent who was gonna cover me theatrically as well as, you know, commercially.4 (51m 46s):And I remember her telling me, she was basically saying the same thing that Patty Crotty had said is that, you know, you know, you're a good actor, I'll put you out there, but it's, it's probably gonna be a while before you're gonna book a commercial or any kind of television cuz you're just really hard to place. She was good to her words. She put me out there and a week later I booked a Budweiser commercial. So I was like, Oh, okay, I think I got this. I, I think the hardest lesson that I had to learn was that because it sometimes came easy, it felt like, like, oh, okay, this is what it was, is I would get say to that chunk of change.4 (52m 29s):And I, it took me a while to figure out that I had to make that chunk of change, stretch as far as I possibly could because I didn't know exactly when the next job was coming from and, and that it was hard when I met and fell in love with my wife who was coming. She had been a model, but she had also worked in the corporate world. And so she was very accustomed to, well no, you make this amount of money every month and this is what you can expect with your expenses. It was hard when we started to realize, oh no, CU just got a great windfall of money, but if you break it down and spread it out over a year, he's not making minimum wage.4 (53m 10s):So, you know, it was a really, that was a hard kind of thing to adjust with.3 (53m 15s):Yes. I mean that's, yes, that's a common story and that's something that they don't teach you about in theater school. They don't teach you money management and how you have to withhold taxes and all kinda stuff. Yeah. So that, that's that, that's, that's a whole education in and of itself. But you were also a writer and director. When did the writing and directing and producing come into your career?4 (53m 40s):The writing actually started in college in that we would have to have monologues for class and I had an affinity to writing the monologues and so I started writing monologues for my classmates for beer money or they would need an audition piece for something in particular. And so I would tailor it to sort of echo whatever play that they were auditioning for kind of a thing. And so it really just sort of came easy for me. And then whenever I was auditioning, my biggest thing was I don't wanna go in there with something that they have seen 3000 times.4 (54m 23s):And so I was like, Okay, you know what? I'm just gonna write my own thing. And it worked, it worked to a degree. And so that's where I sort of started to do it. And then personally after my oldest son Gabe was born, I had a lot of demons to be dealing with. I didn't understand why I had been chosen or whatever, or, or given a child with a disability and, and it took me kind of having to get outta my own way to realize that was the least interesting thing about him. And, but in doing so, I, I started to write in journals and then I ended up writing a one man play that I in turn tour the country with for a handful of years.4 (55m 11s):And it was that play that I then attracted some other attention and then got hired on to do some other writing in script doctoring or whatever. And then as I shared earlier, I wrote a spec script about that time of my life when we were kind of moving into hotels and things like that. And then that kind of just started to snowball. And then I was very fortunate back in 2010, I had the Humanitas Organization, Humanitas Prize. They tapped me as the first recipient of their New Voices fellowship program, which pairs you with showrunners to sort of mentor you in creating a television series.4 (56m 0s):And so I was shared with, paired with Shonda rhymes over at Shondaland and was able to develop a show, which was actually an adaptation of my one man play, about a family, you know, coming to terms and dealing with a child with a disability. But I had already actually had a relationship with Shawnda prior to that because I had gotten cast in an episode of Grey's Anatomy and she and her producing partner, Betsy Beers, put me up for an Emmy for that role. And then when I didn't get the nomination, Shawnda turned around and created a role for me over on private practice.1 (56m 46s):Okay. So you know, all these people, and I guess I'm mindful of time and I wanna know what the hell are you, are you doing now you have this documentary, What is your jam right this second? Colin Douglas. And if you could do anything, what would it be? And tell us about this documentary, because what I don't wanna happen is it's like 10 minutes go by and we haven't heard about the documentary and we haven't heard about like, what is your jam and your juice right this second.4 (57m 13s):Okay. So I, I made the documentary, I started working on it when we got locked out, you know, the world was hurting, the industry was shut down. I couldn't stand in front of a camera, I couldn't direct a bunch of actors in a narrative, but I knew I could still tell stories. And so I, at one point in my career, I detoured and I was an associate show director and a performer at Walt Disney World. I was there for about three years. And the level of talent in those theme parks is just incredible. You know, there are a lot of people who come outta theater schools and they get their job, you know, at Dollywood or at Bush Gardens or at Disney World or Disneyland, and they spend the summer there and then they go off and do whatever else with their life.4 (58m 5s):There are other individuals like the subject of my film, Billy Flanigan, who, he started right after theater school. He went to Boston Conservatory. He then opened up Epcot in 1982 as a kid at the Kingdom and has been working for 40 years straight as a performer out at Disney. When the Disney Park shut down because of the pandemic, Billy was without a stage for the first time in his 40 year career. So what he did is he took it upon himself to start doing singing and dancing telegrams for other performers who were out of work. And then he started to literally take it on the road because he's a cyclist and he started crisscrossing the entire country, delivering these sing in dancing telegrams called Planograms.4 (58m 55s):And my Facebook page was blowing up with, I got Planogrammed, I got Planogrammed and I, so I reached out to some old friends from Disney and I said, I've heard about this name Billy Flanigan for years. He's a, he's a legend. He was a legend 20 years ago when I was working, You know, can you put me in touch with him? And so I spoke with Billy. I reached out to my producing partner and I said, There's a documentary here, because Billy has just been so incredibly selfless. He's always a pay it forward kind of a guy. He's a performers performer, you know, even though he jokes about the fact that he'll get a nosebleed if he's not on center.4 (59m 36s):But it's one of those things where he just really is about making the other people on stage look good. So he's been the face of Disney. But then what ended up happening is he was so busy working and raising an entire family that a handful of years ago, Billy finally slowed down and realized that he had been living a different life than he perhaps should have been. And he came out and it really destroyed his family and, and brought things down. And so you had this guy who day in and day out was still having to give that Disney, you know, RAAs, but behind the scenes, as we all know, his performers, the show's gotta go on.4 (1h 0m 20s):And so his heart was breaking. And so I said to Billy, Look, if we tell your story, we're gonna have to tell all of it, because I feel like you sharing your humanity and your pain is gonna help other people out there within the L G B T community who are feeling bullied or feeling like they don't have their place. So if we can do this, this is, this is sort of our mandate. And he said yes. And his family said yes. And, and thankfully not as a direct link to the film, but I shared the final cut with Billy and his family, because obviously I had to have their final approval. And Billy called me and said, This film is helping heal my family now, because it had given them that creative distance that it was no longer them, it was these other people up on a screen talking about a period of their life.4 (1h 1m 13s):So right now, the film, it premieres digitally on October 7th, and then is available on D V D November 15th. And then after the first of the year, it'll be looking like landing on one of the major streamers.3 (1h 1m 29s):Oh, that's fantastic. I'm so excited to see it because I watched the trailer and that thing that you were describing about, you know, he's, he's, he's gotta always have a stage that comes through from the first frame. You see him, you think, Wow, this guy is like a consummate performer in a way that I could never imagine. I mean, yes, I, I love to be on stage. It's fantastic, but I, I don't have this thing where like, you know, I've gotta be performing every second. And that was really clear. And I didn't know, I didn't glean from the trailer that he was doing that for fun for other performers. I thought he was just starting his business with the singing telegram. So that is even more interesting. Okay, that's really cool.3 (1h 2m 9s):So after the first of the year, it'll come out on a streamer. And actually when you know which one it is, you'll let us know and we'll, we'll promote it on our socials. And I4 (1h 2m 17s):Wanted, but you can preorder now the DVD and the digital.1 (1h 2m 22s):Yeah. I didn't mean to like cut us off from Shonda land, but I really wanted to make sure that we talk about this documentary because I think that it is taking your career and your life in, it's like it's made it bigger and about other things other than, I mean, it's like there's a service component to documentary work that like, I think is not always there in other kinds of media. That documentary work is like at once, for me anyway, really personal, but also universal and also has a great capacity for healing. And so, or at least the truth, right? Like what is the truth?1 (1h 3m 2s):So that's why I wanted to make sure we covered that. But if there's other things you wanna say about your career and like what you're doing now and where you wanna go or anything else, I wanna give you the opportunity, but I wanted to make sure, So I didn't mean to cut off your Shonda land story because I know people are probably like, Oh my God, tell more about Sean Rhymes. But I wanted to talk about the, the Billy documentary.4 (1h 3m 24s):I appreciate that so much. No, I, I, you know, just to sort of bookend the, the documentary, I never felt like it was one of those things that I knew I could tell stories, but I didn't feel like I had any business telling the documentary. I don't necessarily even gravitate towards documentaries, but I just felt like, hold it. This truly is a story that that needs to be told and can maybe bring about a little bit of healing. And that's what I think good films and television do that you, we, we see ourselves mirrored back in many ways and we feel less alone.4 (1h 4m 5s):And so I felt like if I could do that with a narrative, maybe I can do it with a, a documentary. That's not to say that I wanna become a documentarian, because it's not that I wouldn't if the opportunity ever presented itself, but it's the same way in which, you know, writing a narrative feature, it's like, well, I've gotta be compelled to wanna tell this story kind of a thing. And this just happened to be the medium in which to tell it as opposed to making a, you know, a, a film about a guy named Billy who wants to start out being a performer.1 (1h 4m 40s):And I think that you've said a really good word that we talk about sometimes in other ways on this show and in my life I talk about is being compelled. So when someone is compelled to do something, I know that the art created from that feeling of being compelled is usually authentic, true necessary, and, and, and, and, and sometimes healing. So I love the word what doing projects that were compelled. So anything else that you're compelled to do right now?4 (1h 5m 14s):Work great, really, you know, I I, I really, I I still even after, you know, making this, this film, I, I am still very much an actor at heart and I love being on camera. I love the collaborative experience working with other actors. You know, I was very, very fortunate this past season to to work on Barry with Bill Hater and Bill, I guess if I, it was like, what's next? What's my next jam? I would love to be able to emulate what Bill is doing. You know, Bill is the lead. He's also writing, he's also directing all of the episodes.4 (1h 5m 58s):You know, I joked with him that he also ran craft services because it was literally doing all those things and just watching him effortlessly move from being Barry back to Bill, giving me a note and then giving a note to the DP and then stepping back into Barry was just a really wonderful thing. And it's like, you know what, if I can do that, and I have other friends and, and mentors like Tom Verica, Tom actually directed me in that first episode of Grey's Anatomy. And he and I have since become dear friends. He's now the executive producer and resident director on Bridger.4 (1h 6m 39s):He also was the resident director and producer on inventing Anna. And he and I have developed a narrative film that we're looking to produce as well. And, and, and so again, and yet, you know, Tom as sort of an aspiration or an inspiration for me. And he started out as an actor himself. And then, you know, he directed a lot of Grey's Anatomy and then the next thing you know, he's playing Vila, Viola Davis' husband on how to Get Away with Murder. And then he was also the lead producer on Scandal. So it's like, you know, not being defined by what this industry wants to put you in.4 (1h 7m 20s):I feel like I'm finally at the point in my career where Colin can direct a documentary and he could write something for somebody else and he could act. And, and again, you know, from day one when I, when I left Flow Arts early to go out and do the job, it's just because I wanna keep working. Yeah.3 (1h 7m 38s):And that's, that's, everybody says that. Everybody says, I just wish I could be working constantly. Cuz it's where it's where all the fun of, of the work is, you know, not auditioning and getting head shots and whatever. It's, it's, it's doing the work. By the way, Barry is how I came to ask you to be on this podcast, because I didn't watch it when it first came out. I, I kind of came to it late and of course binge the whole thing and it's fantastic. And, and I immediately went and looked up every single actor to see who went to theater school because I, I would love to have them all. What a fantastic show and what an interesting kind of nice little parallel somehow with your documentary and, and also your own story.3 (1h 8m 18s):There's a lot about actors like figuring out what they're doing on screen and, and kind of reconciling that with their offscreen life or, or even just with their career. Do I wanna be this type of actor? Do I wanna be this type of person? You know, Ha and Bill Hater has seamlessly gone, I mean, once upon a time you would not have really thought of a Saturday Night Live person making quite this kind of crossover. And the humor in that show about actors is so perfect. I've ne I've seen things that have come close to that, but I've never seen something that you're just dying laughing if you know anything about the acting profession, Right?3 (1h 8m 58s):Yeah. Or were you gonna say that?1 (1h 8m 59s):I was gonna say that. And also that like, his account, So I have suffered, you know, from panic attacks and anxiety disorder and his journey through that and with that has given me so much hope as a artist because he was one of the first people I knew, especially from snl, especially from comedy, to say, I was struggling with this and this is how I dealt with it. So it didn't totally destroy my life. And he could have chosen to be like, I'm having panic attacks on set at Saturday Live. I'm done, I'm done. But he worked through it and now is doing all of this. So it gives me a lot of hope. So if you talk to him, tell him there's a late, an anxious lady that really feels like I can, I can really reclaim myself as an artist and even maybe thrive through the anxiety.4 (1h 9m 50s):No, I, I, I so appreciate that, Jen. I really do. You know, I have dealt with panic attacks over the years, you know, again, being that new kid, I was kind of predisposed to, Oh my gosh, you know, and luckily I've never had it within my art. It's always been on the other side. But the way in which Bill has navigated all of that is really truly just, you know, motivating and inspiring on so many different levels. And I think the thing that I also recognize is the fact that Bill never had aspirations to be on snl. He wanted to be a filmmaker, you know, he was editing, he was doing all these types of things and he sort of fell in backwards to groundings and, and all that kind of stuff.4 (1h 10m 38s):And somebody saw him and said, Hey, let's do it. It's sort of like he had to kind of take that detour to be able to get back to doing the kind of things that he really wanted to be doing, you know, Which is great for me because I look at like, my time at Disney, okay? I never would've imagined that that brief time at Disney would've been able to fuel me in that it brought back into my life to allow me to direct a film about one of their performers 20 years later.1 (1h 11m 6s):It's a, your story. I'm so glad you came on because your story is a story about the, the consistent inconsistencies and the detours that aren't really detours. And for me, like just being like, I'm just knowing now going into into meetings, being a former therapist for felons. Like that is the thing that people are really interested in. And I

We talk to Wicked's own Elphaba, Jackie Burns!FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):0 (2s):Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. How I've missed you. I've missed talking to you boss. And I took quite a number of weeks off. Well, I did. She, she actually continued to record for at least one week while I was gone. And she's got a great interview. We've got a great interview coming up. She talked to Jackie burns, little Jackie burns on Broadway, wicked playing Elphaba. No big deal. Actually. She has a big deal and she's great. And so were all of you. I am heartened because even though we've taken all this time off, we've continued to grow our listenership.0 (47s):So thank you to you for listening, for continuing to listen for being a first-time listener. If you are thank you for being here, it's a privilege actually, to be able to have a platform to speak one's mind is truly a privilege. And one, I hope we do right by. We're going to be right back into the swing of things with interviews, regular weekly interviews in the fall. So stay tuned for that. And in the meantime, please enjoy this interview with Jackie burns and I'm Gina Kalichi3 (1m 34s):To theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.0 (1m 38s):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.3 (1m 43s):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?2 (1m 56s):Here's the thing. Jackie burns. Congratulations. You survived theater school and you also survived this hellish trying to get you on. So squad quest squad cast, which we usually use is totally wonky this morning. And I was like, no, I, because I'm obsessed with you because I'd been researching you. I'm not a musical theater person, but I am one of these musical theater lovers that has so much reverie. And I think it is a sacred thing to sing and I don't really do it. And so I'm obsessed and you and I have the same birthday, October 4, 10, 4, buddy, ten four. So You're a little younger than me, five years, but that's okay.2 (2m 41s):I'm still, I'm super obsessed. And I also like I, when I watch, so I'm known for like going to high schools and middle schools and watching musical theater of people I'd have no connection to in what I was at when I was in Chicago, because I adore the art form and I don't do it, but I'm obsessed. So anyway, start, start from the beginning. You grew up in Connecticut. How, and then obviously you're a Broadway star. Are you back working in on Broadway? What's happening with you right now?5 (3m 13s):Oh my God. What is happening?2 (3m 15s):Yeah. I looked at your, I looked at all your profiles, but I want to hear it from you. Where are you post sort of pandemic. What is happening with your career? Tell us,5 (3m 27s):Oh God. Well like every musical theater theater,2 (3m 31s):Just say star, just say star, you are a star. You're a musical theater star. Like I understand for someone like I write for TV and I act sometimes, but like I musical theater people when I see them on stage, I'm like, I, the, the, the amount of brilliance it takes and dedication to, I have trouble on set, just moving my body and say, and you sing and move and dance and all the things. Okay. Okay. So what's happening with your career?5 (4m 2s):Oh my God. Well, first of all, Jen, I'm obsessed with you because I wish the rest of the world felt the same way about musical theater people because all of I'm most TV and film people are like, oh, you're not a real actor because you,2 (4m 13s):No, I would love to cast, listen, listen, what I mean? I would love to catch you and all your cohort when I do, because here's the thing. The body spatial awareness of musical theater folks, to know where they are in space translates onto set. So everyone listening, the 10,000 people that have downloaded this podcast that will continue to hire musical theater folks on television and film because they know bodies and bodies. It's not just a head people. So anyway, okay, go ahead. Sorry. I keep interrupting. I'm just like,5 (4m 46s):Nope. I love you. You're like making me feel so good about myself. But as every theater person, all we want to do is get on TV and film.2 (4m 55s):Oh, right. It's that's holds true for musical theater folks too. I assume that's where the dough is. Is that5 (5m 1s):That's where that money is. Because if you think about it, like once the theater show closes, we don't get a back end of it. So like, that's it. Your paycheck's done.2 (5m 9s):There's no residuals.5 (5m 10s):There's no residual.2 (5m 12s):Yeah. Okay. So, okay. So tell me what is happening now? You said you got your insurance back, which is5 (5m 17s):Paula that's hope. It's always helpful. I just did a new musical called a walk on the moon. That was based off the movie. No,2 (5m 27s):No,5 (5m 29s):No. I'll walk in the cloud. Like very similar. No,2 (5m 33s):She's dope. I like to5 (5m 34s):Have her with like Viggo, Mortensen, Schreiber. And when it was like back in the day, it's a good movie. Tony, Tony Goldwyn, like directed it and stuff. And he actually came and saw the musical. Did2 (5m 47s):He give you a compliment?5 (5m 49s):Yes, he was very nice. It was also like super handsome. You're like, hi,2 (5m 52s):I have heard. Yes.5 (5m 54s):You're just like, hello? Oh, you're married Ella and there's no, no, no, no, no. And my boyfriend's gonna listen to be like,2 (6m 6s):No, no, no. That's okay. That's okay.5 (6m 8s):No, he knows. He knows that I'm just joking. I'm just stroking on there. No. And then Pam gray wrote it. Who wrote the, who wrote the script as well? Yeah. And it's really good. And we just closed and they're hoping to bring it to Broadway. So fingers crossed. But the problem is, is that Broadway because it was closed for two years. All these shows have been trying to get theater. So that were like low man on the total whole cause it's like two years worth of shows trying to get to Broadway.2 (6m 37s):Correct.5 (6m 37s):So it's, and we're just like a little show rather than like a big show, so2 (6m 43s):Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But still worked. You have worked post pandemic, which is a huge thing. Okay. So tell me, were you a kid? Who did you grow up? You grew up in Connecticut. I'm assuming, were you a kid? Like you were five and you were like, just ho like you knew you could sing or what, how did that go? How does that, how do you discover that you can freaking sing?5 (7m 6s):You're so cute. I'm going to like put your pocket. Your energy is like seven. I'm going to be a best friend now.2 (7m 13s):And we'll together. We'll try to, we'll try to have a television show. That's like, I know they did it kind of with glee, but like Glebe, like less sassy and more earnest.5 (7m 23s):Yes. I am interested Jen, get2 (7m 26s):And throwing some murders because I, I write a lot of murder. Yeah.5 (7m 29s):Oh, I love that. That's what2 (7m 31s):Musical murders. Great. Okay. So you, you were a kid and how did this happen? That you were like, dude, I can be on stage and sing.5 (7m 38s):I just like always was obsessed with it. Like, so I started dancing when I was three and then, but like I used to get on like the little like Hutch, you know, like the fireplace such as my stage and sing, sing to like Michael Jackson's thriller. And I just like, yeah. And I used to, when I used to go to dance, like as I got older, we drove like 45 minutes. My mom drove me very sweet to dance class. And I used to sing along with the radio and I was convinced that the DJ could hear me. And it was just like a matter of time before I got recording contract.2 (8m 9s):Listen, here's the thing about that is that yeah. Some people might think it's wacky, but what I think is that bill that shows that somewhere, you envisioned a world where people were listening to you and were going to pay you. And that it was going to be like, even though it was just a fantasy in a car, what it shows is that you had like a sort of an expansive mind as a kid, as a lot of, not every kid is doing, most kids are like, oh, I sound terrible. And I'm never going to make it out of this Podunk town. Like that's, that's where I was at. So you, you were you're on. Okay. And then, so the dancing and singing, and then what about the acting part? Like, cause you could have just been a singer and a dancer.5 (8m 47s):Totally. You know what this is going to be, I'm going to throw so much shade and2 (8m 52s):You5 (8m 52s):Can do it2 (8m 53s):Any way. You want shade, half shade, full shade, whatever you need.5 (8m 57s):I'm going to give full shade just because I think it's funny. But when I went to my dance school, brought us to New York the first time, even though I lived in Connecticut, which is super close to New York, like I live two hours from the city. We never went to the city. So I went to the city for my first time when I was like, I was 15 years old and we went and saw Greece with like Broadway. That was my first Broadway show that I ever saw. And it was with like, kind of was like Brooke shields, like Rosie O'Donnell like crazy. But I, I was kind of not impressed. I was like, wait, I could do this. Like I, you know, I coveted Broadway is like so big. So like that, that I, I realized I was like, everyone sounded really great and who was dancing really great.5 (9m 41s):But I was not impressed with the acting at that point. For some reason, I just kind of was like, oh, it felt very pantomimed me2 (9m 49s):Like presentational.5 (9m 50s):Yes. Yeah. Yes. Which sometimes it's like, and that's when I moved to LA, I lived in LA for like a hot second cause I did wicked in LA and then I met my managers at T grin, I think. Yes.2 (10m 2s):Yes. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. Tikrit is amazing. Yes.5 (10m 5s):Yeah. He's amazing. And they were like, come move to LA and like, let's get you on TV and film. And then I moved there and then the pandemic happened and I was like, well2 (10m 12s):It was right then. Oh shit.5 (10m 14s):Yeah. I was there for like six months and it was great and it was fun. And like, but the thing that I realized is like, when I first got there and I started got into acting classes there, they were like, yo, you're a musical theater. So you only like color with like two of the crayons in your coloring box rather than all of them. Because you know, it's so far back. So you just have to like, you know, play to the back of the house and it's true. So many times you go see a show and it's like so broad and present presentation. It doesn't like bring, bring truthful. So that's2 (10m 43s):I think, no, I have to say it's like, I wish LA and I'm not, I I'm sure you went to amazing classes, but I wish so. I teach at the theater school at DePaul over zoom now that's where we went. Okay. So I teach there. And so the thing is, I wish we had a better language for saying that to people. So what, for me it is, is not, when I see musical theater actors on all it is, it's not so much for me that they have two colors. What it is is that they were exceptionally built for the, the thing they were doing. Right. And now they're doing something else. So you say like, okay, look, the dope thing about you is we know all that's in there.2 (11m 25s):It's just a matter of, of like super tweaking it and making it niche, niche nuanced. And it's a total teachable skill, which I'm sure they told you to like to oh yeah. Just is like, but the good news is I think I would, you know, I would more say you have all the colors, all the people that do musical theater have all the colors in there, or you wouldn't be able to go broad. And it's just a matter of pivoting to being a more like lasered focused situation. So anyway, all the musical theater people out there, I know we all have many all the colors, but it's true that there was also like in the arts and the late nineties where theater was Uber presentational, like, like, oh my gosh.2 (12m 8s):So you saw that and you were like, okay, I want to act, I could do this. And so then what did you do? Start taking classes or what happened as a kid?5 (12m 16s):So then that's, well, that's what I, I'm a year early from my grade. So I was going into college that next year. You know what I mean? So I just decided to just go to school for straight acting, just for acting rather than musical theater. Cause I felt like if you can sing, you can sing. Obviously you can always get better and stuff like that. But I was like, I really wanted to make sure that cause everything is from a storytelling place. Right. You know what I mean? It's like, so if, if you're a BA, if you know, so anyways, so that's why I went to2 (12m 41s):Wait a minute. So here's the thing about singing? Like, okay. So when you, how do you know like your small and you're doing like, you're standing on the hearth of your fireplace and doing your thing, but like how does one know like, oh shit, I can do this because here's my thing. Like I never tried because my sister was the singer in the family. So I just assumed that that was like, every family gets one and that was her thing later in life, look, I took classes and I'm, but I'm not like a, a hearth singer like yourself. Right. So, but how do you know, do people say to you I'm serious? Do people say to you, oh my gosh, Jackie, when you're young, do you remember people saying like, you can really fucking sing?2 (13m 24s):Not maybe not with the fucking, you know what I mean?5 (13m 26s):No, they said, yeah. They said, Jackie, you can fucking sing. And I was like six and I was like, oh my God, thank you so much. You know, what's so funny is that this now everyone's going to really know our age. When I was, when I was in elementary school, my mom made me do the, what is it called? The talent show. And I sang Peter pans. I won't grow up. She made me like various.2 (13m 56s):I love that. I'm glad she, but I also glad because that could lend itself to comedy. So that's good.5 (14m 2s):Oh. And she gave me all the like, like, like I won't grow up. I had, and she had like a thing like, oh, I don't want to wear a tie. Like she, like, all the parents made a big deal out of me and they wanted to throw a bake sale to send me to star search. It was hilarious. But then all the little girls that I was friends with all hated me after.2 (14m 23s):Well, see here's well, that5 (14m 25s):Was,2 (14m 25s):That happens. I'll I'll all the time, so. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Did you go to star search first of all?5 (14m 32s):No. No. I was too busy, crying every day because I had no friends and wanting to like be homeschooled.2 (14m 37s):So yeah. Yeah. I hear you. I, I, here's the thing about that. It's like, I don't have kids and I'm never going to have kids that ship has sailed thankfully. And so I, it's interesting to think about kids and like, what is it? I wish what I wish. So what I wish never happens. And that's why I say, I wish, I wish that the kids had said, oh my gosh, Jackie, you can sing. Yes. You got attention. Teach us how to do it. Or maybe let's, let's collaborate together, but they're like six and nobody's going to fucking collaborate when they're six, maybe. But like, I wish it had been more collaborative because look, what if you had like put on a production together with the girls that, but instead they ostracize you a little bit.2 (15m 21s):So then did you keep your singing or were you like, fuck you, I'm going to sing anyway. How did that go?5 (15m 25s):Oh, and then, so then, so then I went to junior high and then I actually always said like that it was junior high and the chorus teacher made a big deal out of me. And I like won all these awards and like, got like, like whatever I got all these solos and stuff. And then the parents started complaining to the chorus teacher that why is this little girl getting all the solos and not our daughter's getting solos. So then,2 (15m 47s):Wow. So here's the thing like, look, look, look, I understand that we want things to be equal, but how about then, like if I ran in the world or even had a little part of it, this is what I would do, I would say all right. All right. All right. So Jackie can sing her ass off. She's amazing. But why don't we pivot and turn and also look at what makes little Emily and little Jane amazing. And, and, and, and bolster that instead of trying to damp in Jackie's flame, like, it just doesn't make any sense to me. So like, I have this new phrase in Hollywood and people probably hate me. And when I go to meetings, I'm like, look, we have to collaborate or die.2 (16m 27s):Like that's where we're at agree. Right? Like adapt and collaborate or get the fuck out of the way. And people are like, oh, this crazy bitch. But here's the thing. The collaboration is going to be the only thing that saves us on our planet and in many ways. So wouldn't, it have been great. If they had said I should have my own POS podcast, that's just called wouldn't it have been great because I, I, I feel like I say that so much to people like, wouldn't it have been great if they, the parents had said, oh my God, like, Jackie's dope. But if Jackie can do it, that maybe means like my Susie can tap, dance her ass off or make pottery like a motherfucker. So like, let's focus on those things rather than dampening Jackie's, you know, it's so it's so such, such terrible behavior, but okay.2 (17m 10s):So junior high also, did you, were you like, oh shit. I can sing. And I'm amazing, but these people hate my guts or how did it?5 (17m 17s):Yeah. Yes. And then the caveat is when I went to high school, the junior high teacher told the high school teacher that I was like very special. And like, they should, she should put me in like senior prior. And then that teacher hated me and told me I was flat and told me, I sucked every day to the point I stopped singing. I just,2 (17m 37s):You know what that reminds me of wait, was it, was it a lady teacher? Okay. It reminds me of glee when it's a Dina and, and what's her name and you know, the one people like to talk shit about, I don't know her. Leah, Leah, Leah.5 (17m 55s):Yeah.2 (17m 55s):So they, that exact thing happens. And it's just, it's just, and maybe that's what happened. Maybe it's jealousy. Maybe it's maybe it's like, how dare someone be special? I never got to do the thing or whatever it is. It's not your, you were a kid. It was not your PR, even in high school, your problem to figure that out. So you stopped singing what? That now there's the real travesty, right?5 (18m 16s):Yeah. So then I stopped singing in choir. I would just like lip sync and she would still be like, oh, I hear is Jackie all layers, Jackie sound. It was horrible. Miss Hilton. I'll tell you to say it anyway. She was horrible to me. And then for college, you had to write, she, you had to get a letter of recommendation. And she told me she had nothing nice to say about me and she wouldn't write it. So then the guidance counselor, I had to write it for me. It was so that I could audition for schools.2 (18m 43s):Okay. That lady, that lady is whore. That's a horrible thing.5 (18m 47s):Yeah. I know. And then my brother, this is so funny. My brother, Kevin, my brother is seven years younger than me. And so when he went to high school, he had her too. And the first day of school went through and was like, Joey burns any relationship to Jackie burns. And he was like, yeah, that's my sister. And he was, she was like, yeah, she's still trying to make it on Broadway. And he was like, oh yeah, she's on Broadway in hair actually. And it shut her right up. And then all of a sudden she was like, oh, I've always knew she was going to make it. I was like,2 (19m 16s):Okay, here's the thing like, that is a sad, sad, human being. Like, if you are a teacher of youngsters and you cannot foster them in any way, then, then you, that is not the right fit for you. My friends. And also I I'm, well, it's, it's no shocker. I was a former, I'm a former therapist for, for people when they got up, I got out of prison. So like, all my bent is like on a psychological lens, but like a trauma lens, usually with this stuff. But it's like lady, I understand Ms. Whatever. Hilman, what's her name?5 (19m 50s):Hilton2 (19m 50s):Hilton. Ms. Hilton Paris Hilton. I understand if it was somehow related, I understand that you've got trauma that you haven't worked on, whatever, but that is not the children, the high high-schoolers responsibility, my friend, that is your responsibility. Just like it's my responsibility. And Jackie's responsibility to work on the shit that happened to us. So anyway, oh my God. Well, thank gosh for guidance counselors. I would have been like the guidance counselor. I would have been like,5 (20m 16s):She was the best. Yeah.2 (20m 18s):Ms. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Ms. Fitzgerald. Okay. So then you go to connect. You went to school in Connecticut, right?5 (20m 23s):Yeah. So then my parents were like, and then I, so I graduated when I was 17, so I, and I, because we're October. Yeah. And so what was the youngest class to get our drivers?2 (20m 35s):Yes, but like the best in terms of like, I got to college, I was 17. I was like, Hey, I'm young. And I'm got,5 (20m 41s):Say that same, same, but my so, but I didn't want to go to college. I was like, I'm just gonna move to New York and be a star. And my parents were like, yeah, you're 17. So no, you're not. And I was like, oh, okay. So I didn't put a lot of effort into looking into school. So I only audition for three schools, NYU boss' conservatory and Yukon. My parents were like, you should audition for the state school. Just, you know, whatever. Yeah.2 (21m 2s):It's also cheapest, cheaper, much cheaper. Right.5 (21m 5s):So, yeah. That's what, and that's what my parents said. They were like, listen, you can graduate. They're like, this is how much money we can afford. The rest is going to be loans and on you. They're like, so you're not graduating. And being a doctor like in going into like maybe a work, maybe what we think you'll work. My parents were always very supportive of me.2 (21m 22s):That's awesome.5 (21m 23s):So great. Yeah. They were never, they were, they weren't like, you need a backup plan. They were like, yeah, we think you'll make it. But they were like, you don't go. Right. So like, you know, they're like, you can graduate with a shit ton of debt or you can graduate basically debt free. And I chose to go to school debt free. I was like2 (21m 41s):So smart because let me tell you something. When the sheriff comes to your house, because you don't pay off your grad school loans, Jen Bosworth, Ramirez over here and says, you took out a private loan for your grad school in counseling psych, and you never paid it back. And so now we're here to collect. Literally the sheriff came to my house. I thought to myself, this was a poor choice that I, I did not need to take out this loan that I apparently, I mean, look, fit shit, happens for a reason. But what I'm saying is when I hear these stories, that people that chose to be debt free instead of go to Juilliard and take out $7,700,000 in debt or whatever, or in loans, I'm like, yes, because especially in this career, even if you are brilliant, and even if you are magical and are a star, you it's still, the paycheck is the paycheck right.2 (22m 29s):On Broadway. So, so good for you. Okay. So you up, well, how was your college experience, Jackie? Like, how would you say that was5 (22m 36s):Again also hilarious and the fact that, because I sang and I went to school for just straight acting, they all made fun of me for like sitting. They were like, oh, you want to do musical? That's not real acting. And I always left with laugh and be like, I'm going to actually work. So, you know,2 (22m 53s):Oh, people or any. Okay. So when I was on crew, I was on crew at DePaul theater school and we would do one musical a year, which I was never casting, but5 (23m 4s):Same thing we did one musical a year,2 (23m 6s):I guess. Were you the, I hope you were the fucking star everyone.5 (23m 9s):No. Sometimes no, because the grad actors would be the stars.2 (23m 14s):Oh my God. I bet they're kicking themselves. But anyway, okay. So I was crew and I was on makeup and I think Gina was too. And anyway, w I was on crew and I would literally, and it was into the woods, which is my favorite. And I would sit on the edge of the stage and Rapunzel, this woman, Jen, who was a Rapunzel and reposal, I would watch. And I would be like, oh my gosh. And Brockie, I think it was Brockie who did last midnight. And I just was be like, this is magic. So anyway, okay. So that was like me. And I would like miss my, my job because I would be listening and watching these musical theater people, I just would love, they were, I was like in love.2 (23m 54s):So anyway. Okay. So when you, you wouldn't be the star at Yukon5 (23m 58s):Sometimes, sometimes that like you, like, yeah. Towards the end, I started getting some starring work roles, which was great.2 (24m 4s):What was your favorite role at Yukon?5 (24m 11s):You know what I think it's, I think it was my favorite role. Cause I would never get cast in the real world was Joanna and Sweeney. Todd, because putting me in a bland blonde wig is it's a very unfortunate level. Oh, it's not good.2 (24m 24s):Okay. Okay. So you, Joanna is sweet. Sweet has a rough one.5 (24m 28s):Yeah. And also we love murder, but so like I'm not your quintessential ingenue and you know what I mean? Like, I don't have an ingenue look, you know,2 (24m 38s):You have more of like a fierce, like a fierce, like a warrior villain look.5 (24m 42s):Yeah. I'm a, I'm a Maleficent. I'm not an Elsa. You know what I mean? Like that's2 (24m 48s):Is what it is. It is what it is. I5 (24m 50s):Love it. Yeah.2 (24m 51s):I'm the crazy neighbor. I'm the crazy lady. I love it. I'll take it.5 (24m 56s):Yeah. Save. So it's like, I would never play that in the real world. So I loved that because it was a chance for me. Cause I never get to the icing can sing soprano. Nobody knows that like really well, like I actually prefer seas, but I don't ever sing soprano because,2 (25m 10s):Oh, I didn't understand that. Of course like the way the, the, the, the, the part is written. Yeah. The ingenue is probably our Sopranos.5 (25m 20s):Yeah. This is their soprano. And they're like the little blonde next door.2 (25m 23s):And the earthier grounded tone is more of the villainous to, or like the serious business tone. Okay. Very cool. Very cool. Okay. So also sweetened, I didn't know when I saw it, when I was younger, that what it was about and I saw it and I was like, what the fuck is going out? These meat pies, this is cannibalism. And it was crazy. Yeah. I love it now. Cause I write about that stuff, but like, I was like, why is this, why are they, why is he's cutting his throat? What's happening here. So anyway, I thought it was going to be like wizard of Oz. No, no, like, yeah. I didn't know. So. Okay. So you graduate and then are you like, fuck it, I'm moving to New York right away. Like how did this go?5 (26m 2s):Yeah. And then I moved out into New York to New York, with my best friend from college. We got randomly put together. She was not an actor. I didn't really hang out with any of the acting people. I like hung out with all normal people.2 (26m 13s):That's much better choice.5 (26m 16s):Yeah. And so, and even though going to school for straight acting, I wasn't around music, musical theater, people are a different energy, especially, it's a lot of, you know,2 (26m 26s):And he, you know, it's a lot, but it's also, I got to say like, it's a lot. And as I get older, I really appreciate it more because it's a way of sort of owning your space. But like when you were in high school and college and you sit in a restaurant next to a table of musical theater people, you're like, oh God, may I may lose it. So, yeah. Okay. So you graduate and you and your roommate from Yukon move into Manhattan or what, where do you go to5 (26m 50s):Yeah, we move it. Yeah. We, we lived together for 11 years actually. Yeah. Like we were like common law until I moved in with my ex-husband at the time. Like yeah. Like,2 (26m 60s):Yeah. Okay. And so what happens? You get an agent. How does this work for you? Jacqueline?5 (27m 4s):Yeah. It's so funny. So, well, I, I have such a random way. So I moved and I went to one audition.2 (27m 11s):What was it? Four, four. I5 (27m 12s):Don't even remember. I just remember I was at Chelsea studio. I don't even think that they2 (27m 17s):Do physical theater.5 (27m 18s):It was musical theater. And that was another thing because they didn't go to musical theater school. I didn't have like a2 (27m 23s):Book,5 (27m 25s):Like, so like, you know, I went to this, it was like a cattle call audition with like, you know, as non-union 8 million girls in a room2 (27m 33s):Shit. And they all had books and shit. I don't, I didn't even know what a book was. Cause I, until like last year I was like, she's like, I gotta refresh my book. I was like, yeah, just get a book, any book? And she's like, no girl. No. So, okay. So you show up there and how does it go? Are you nervous? Are you like, no, I can fucking sing. Fuck you.5 (27m 50s):No, I, I, I was there and I was waiting and everybody was wearing like the same dresses. It was like straight up like Jason, Robert Brown, you know, from last five years. And everybody's like talking about what they've done and dah, dah, dah, and their book and what they're going to sing. And I just had a panic attack and I left. I was like, Nope, I'm going. And I didn't audition for like two years. I just like lived in the city and like waitressed and like hung out with my friends. You know what I mean? It just was like a ridiculous,2 (28m 15s):Yeah. Living your life, like living your life. Like, you know what? I, I respect that. Like I, I, okay. The one, oh my God. The one audition girl I had. Oh my gosh. So I had to go to the lyric opera of Chicago because they were, they were, they were supposedly hiring non singers for like, or like just singers, but non, non opera singers for this, this thing that this big New York person was coming in the Merry widow of, I don't know. Yeah. Okay. Fine. So my agent's like, you got, I'm like, you know, I don't sing. They're like, no, no. They're just looking for people that can carry a tune or like, and I'm like, okay. But you know, and she's like, no, just go it's for this non more of an acting funny part.2 (28m 59s):And I'm like, okay, dude, like just learn 12 bars. So I, I learned the Cinderella stepsister song from Rogers and Hammerstein. Like why would a one out of eight? It's like a, it's like the ridiculous. Okay. So I go and I go into the bowels of the opera, the, the lyric opera where there's no cell reception. So I can't like text anyone and be like, I'm fucking in the wrong place. What the fuck? All the women come in, Jackie and they start and I hear them warming up and they're seeing opera opera. And I'm like, okay, okay. So I go to the bathroom, no reception. I'm trying to call my agent. Like I can't do this. And I go out and they're like, Jen, you're up? And I walk in.2 (29m 40s):Yeah, I'd walk in. And I hand my music to the piano player and he, and it's all these people. I never been to a musical theater audition, let alone an opera situation. And the guy on the panel just starts and I blacked out. I don't know what happened, Jackie. I didn't, I, I, I don't know what happened. It was awful. And I, I, like, I like left my body and they walk out and I'm like, and I walk out on the corner in Chicago downtown, and it just opens up. It starts pouring on me and I start crying on the corner and I call my agent. I'm like, I don't think it went so well. And then I tell them, anyway, I have no recollection of the, the, the audition.2 (30m 24s):Like I blacked out. So listen, I understand. And I couldn't sing and you could sing. And you were like, I'm out. So, so, okay. So you left and you for two years, you were a waitress and you were, you were kicking it with your friends. And then how did you work your way? Back in5 (30m 40s):My best friend came in with a backstage. She didn't even really know what it was. And she was like, you have to go to this audition today. Or you can't like hang out tonight. And I was like, she was like, come on, you didn't come. You didn't move here to be a waitress. And I was2 (30m 52s):Like, what was it for5 (30m 54s):Tokyo Disney in Japan?2 (30m 56s):Oh,5 (30m 57s):It was hilarious. And that, and I booked it. And that was my first job.2 (30m 60s):You went to Tokyo and you were worked at Disney.5 (31m 2s):Yeah. It was so fun. And they had this Broadway review. So I did this broad, they had this Broadway review show where I sang like mama rose and Avita. And like, it was hilarious. It was so fun. Yeah. It was so fun.2 (31m 15s):Did you do that Jackie?5 (31m 17s):Because nine months.2 (31m 19s):Oh my gosh.5 (31m 20s):So we2 (31m 21s):Did that. You make good money.5 (31m 23s):Yeah. It was great money. And then, and then I met this guy climbing, Mount Fuji, this Australian guy, and like fell in love. And so then I called my best friend, Rachel, who is just like the coolest person. And I was like, let's go to Australia. I also didn't like New York when I moved there, like, and she was like, okay. So like, we moved to Australia for like a year and like hung out there. And then I w we got kicked out cause our visa ran out, you know? And then, so then we came back to New York and I still hated New York. And I was like, Ugh,2 (31m 51s):What is your waving? And wait a minute. What you hate about it? Like, what did you not like about New York when you moved there?5 (31m 57s):Non-green you talk about Connecticut and the green light. And I live literally in2 (32m 1s):The middle of the middle of that,5 (32m 2s):On the shoreline, in the middle of nowhere, live in like a lake. It's all like, you know, it's like beautiful. And I'm a very outdoorsy girl. So it was just like, it was so ugly, concrete. It was so dirty. And I just was like, I missed the outdoors, you know what I mean? I miss like green. And so I just, I didn't, I just didn't like it, you know, now I love the city, but like, I just, I did not, it took me a while, but then I came back and I was like, that still don't want to be here. So I auditioned for a cruise ship and I got this. So then I went on a cruise ship and I was supposed to be there for nine months. And then four months into the cruise ship. I was like, what am I doing with my life? Like, I don't want to be like singing to old people, sleeping in the audience. Like, you know what I mean? So2 (32m 42s):Listen, it's old people. And then me, I go to those and I'm on the cruise. And I go to the musical reviews and I am like weeping in the audience and share5 (32m 53s): yeah.2 (32m 58s):Yeah. People sleeping. Yeah. No, I was like the one person and I know they were all asleep or like, or like snoring or like maybe a coma and like I, or like dead. And I was like, oh my God, this is the best thing. But I usually was alone in that. Okay. So you got off the cruise ship for months and you were like, Nope.5 (33m 15s):Yeah. And it was hilarious. Cause they, the lady, because with the way the cruise ship worked, like if you just leave, then you have to pay out your contract, which I did not want to do. Cause you, you know, so I was like, yeah, I'm having, I was like, I'm having, I said I was having episodes of like wanting to jump, you know what I mean? Cause like not seeing land for so long is like, and it was hilarious. Cause the lady totally knew the director knew I was lying. Her name's Natalie. And she was like, Jackie, she was like, if, if you say this, you'll never work on a cruise ship again, like you'll never get to come. And I was like, I'm okay with that.2 (33m 48s):So you got off.5 (33m 51s):So then I got off and2 (33m 53s):It's like a, it's like a psychological discharge kind of a5 (33m 55s):Situation. They don't want you to jump.2 (33m 58s):No, no, they don't want that.5 (33m 60s):No. And so then I'm moved back to the city and I was like, all right, I'm gonna audition. And, and so at that point I auditioned for this smokey Joe's yeah, yeah. I'd done like five smoking joints and this vector. Yeah. This, it was like one of my favorites. This cast director was like, Steven dandle is so nice. He was like, I want to help me call me the, after my audition. He was like, I think you're super talented. I want to help you. I want to help you get an agent. And I was like, okay. I was just very lucky. And so that's how I got my first agent. And then I had an audition for hair in the park, in Shakespeare, in the park and books that, so that, and I remember calling my parents when I got that. And I was like, this is, this is like the chicken before the egg type of thing, you know?5 (34m 41s):It's like, it's like, we love you, but you've never done probably before. So we can't give you a better show. And you're like, but how do I get a Broadway show? Unless you give me a Broadway show, you know what I mean? I was like, this is a game changer. And I knew, and it was great. And that's like kind of then from there on like2 (34m 56s):Here, was that, what year was that? The hair in the park here in the park.5 (35m 1s):I want to say it was it 2007.2 (35m 4s):Okay. Okay. Amazing.5 (35m 8s):Yeah. And it was great. And then while I was doing that in the park, all the girls in my dressing room were going in for this new show called rock of ages and, and, and my agents were small at the time, so they couldn't get me. I couldn't get in. And I was like, what the F I'm so right for this show. And then finally at the end I got an audition and there was one roll left the stage swing for like the dancer tracks. And I, at that point hadn't danced since I was 17, had been like, you know, almost 10 years. And I can tell you, I blew that, see dance so bad. Like everyone was going that one way. And I was one of those where it's like, there's no way I'm getting this, but I booked it because the music director fought for me and was like, no, I really want her voice.5 (35m 50s):Like I really want her. And so thankfully2 (35m 53s):We talk a lot about on this podcast and I just talk a lot about it in my consulting and stuff with my clients. It's like, here's the thing. Like, and, and, and tell me your thoughts on this. Like my, my, you know, my new sort of vision for things is look, and the people have told me this and I never listened because I was a fucking idiot. But like, like we're booking the room, we're not booking the job. Right. We're booking the people like that. We're booking our champions. We're making fans of our work everywhere we go. And we just don't know who our champions are going to be. So you might as well, like, just really try to, what is it like you're booking the room, right?2 (36m 35s):Like we're. Yeah. So, so you had these champions early on, not that you didn't have the talent and the fucking work ethic too, but you had champions like the guy who called the casting man who called you and told you, I want to help you. And like, and, and, and then the, the musical director on rock of ages, that's amazing. And I think, and I'm trying to sort of figure out like, and what are your thoughts on Why people want to champion certain people? Is it because that, I guess it's a leading question. What I think is that people are decent humans and they want to champion other decent humans, not just the talented voice or the stunning person, but like the decency inside the human something comes through.2 (37m 23s):Do you think that's, that has any validity to it or am I crazy?5 (37m 27s):No, I do think like you onset or in a, in a, in rehearsal, you're with these people for so many hours, if the person is talented, but they suck as a human, like who wants to be suck on sets with 16 hours or in a rehearsal room for eight hours? You know what I mean? Like,2 (37m 44s):I feel like you are one of those. And I would say yes, because I'm talking to you and I'm good with, I know people, but like what, what do you think it is about you? Like, I'm always talking about this to famous people and to stars and to like, what do you think it is about you that people want to work with?5 (38m 4s):I'm very I'm game to do anything. Like I I've no ego.2 (38m 9s):You're curious. You're humble. You have fond. It sounds like you have fun. You like that?5 (38m 15s):Yes. I think my biggest fault, like is that I am humble to a fault. So therefore I think we tell people how to treat us. So sometimes my humility will come across as a lack of confidence. And that's the problem. Cause you know, it's like, it's a lot of money there. Producers are putting on your shoulders and the person that comes in with the confidence that like, Hey, I'm amazing.2 (38m 39s):Let me tell you something. I'm five years older than you. And I'm just getting it. So I now can walk into a room and first excuse my language, but now I can walk into a room and I can swing my Dick. Yeah. I know I have done the work. I have seen what's out there and I know what I have to contribute and I'm also not. But I spent, and if you listen to it all in the podcast, you know, both Gina and I, we spent our twenties and even my thirties going pick me, choose me, love me on some level. Even if I wasn't saying that it was coming out somehow in rooms. Right. So nobody wants that.2 (39m 20s):Right? Like nobody, that's not, it's not even something it's not even about attractiveness. It's like not even attractive in like a human way. Right? Like in a working relationship kind of way. So now I walk in and I'm like, it's not that. And I think also like, and people say this all the time, like people mistake, humbleness for weakness all the time, but there's also something in us that's projecting this sort of smallness. Even if we're not saying it until now, like it took me until 40, like whatever to say, oh fuck, no, I've seen what's out there. And I know I belong and it's not constant. So do you feel like you're coming into that?5 (40m 1s):Yeah. I think that, I feel like I had figured it out like two years before the pandemic. I really kind of, you know what it was for me. I stood by for Idina Menzel and this show called if then on Broadway. And it was the height of her career. It was when frozen came out and she was on the Oscars. And like everybody she's like, you know, everyone was obsessed with her. They were coming to see her specifically in the show. They weren't coming to see the show. They were coming to see her standing by for her people were viscerally angry when I was on, you know what I mean? Because you know, they came to see like, people have flown in from me. I had this British woman yell at me because like she had flown in from England and to see a Dina and I was on and I was like, I'm sorry, like it's not my fault.5 (40m 45s):You know what I mean? Like, you know, so, but that gave me the comp and I had to like win the audience over, like, you know what I mean?2 (40m 54s):So they don't throw things at you, right?5 (40m 56s):Yeah. Like you could feel the shift. There was a song called what the fuck? And like, I always knew. I'd like, that's like, when I would get the audience, that's your2 (41m 3s):Side5 (41m 3s):Where they'd be like, okay, like it's not a Deena. Like, she's2 (41m 6s):Awesome.5 (41m 7s):But this girl, like, it's not like a terrible name. Right. You know what I mean? Like,2 (41m 12s):But that help, we can't help. But like this lady.5 (41m 14s):Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like she's at least like, not bad. So that gave me the confidence. Like I had gotten to the place where I was like, ma I believed in myself because it had to, because nobody else did. Right. So I had to like, be like, okay. And that's, I was in a really good place. And the same thing, like when I moved to LA, like I was doing really well, like getting into like producer session callbacks for like service. Like you don't get like, great. And then the pandemic happened and I'm slowly getting my mojo back. Because like, after having that two years, almost three years of like living in this void, this vacuum of self-tapes where you don't know what's going on, you know, like there's no creativity.2 (41m 51s):Yes.5 (41m 52s):That I'm slowly being like, okay, I do know what I'm doing.2 (41m 57s):Can you tell Tega right. Yes. I see you. And maybe I'll listen to this, send it to them. I feel like if I were an Tikosyn, you'd be like, okay, crazy bitch. You don't know what you're doing, but listen, if I were marketing, you I'd be like, she is the next Rene Russo meets. And I haven't figured out the meats part, but Like, I always have a meats, you know? And it's going to be someone, a little weirder. You know what I mean? Like my cause I always skew weird. So when I, so like, you are like, I can see it, but oh, you're the next Rene Russo. But with a fucking voice, how about that? That's how I would pitch you pitch you with a fucking voice to make the gods weep.2 (42m 38s):That's how I would pitch not a manager, but you know, and I haven't actually heard you sing, although you sang a little bit in, I write in this tape, I can tell, you can tell like musical theater and like people could really sing, even when they're like joking around. It's like, wow, the rest of us are like, what the fuck was that? When I mess around, I'm like, man, you're like, oh, it was just like a little bit like, whoa, what the fuck? So anyway, the point is, you're brilliant. And I could totally, I could see you being like the next bad-ass Rene Russo type. Who's like, you know, in the Thomas crown affair, like that kind of thing. That's how I would T grim5 (43m 14s):T grin. Listen, I tell him, tell him,2 (43m 16s):Tell him. And he's gonna be like, oh, that crazy bitch. So, okay. The thing is now. So we have about 10 minutes left and I want to focus on like, what are your dreams? Like, where do you want to be? What do you want to do? Where do you want to go?5 (43m 31s):So many good questions. I mean, I want to originate. I really just want to be originating roles. Okay.2 (43m 37s):Okay. Tell me more about what that means. Like, I don't even, we don't talk like that in Hollywood. So what does that mean?5 (43m 42s):Well, like, cause you know, Broadway shows, there's like a lot of long running shows, but like originated wicked. So they wrote the show for her. You know what I mean?2 (43m 52s):Okay. So this is great to know because a lot of us don't know this. Okay. So they write for the people. She did not audition for that or she did5 (44m 2s):No, she, no, she auditioned, but then once she got it. Yeah. So it's like all of a sudden if like, oh, you know, like,2 (44m 10s):Okay, I am that's okay. I have a dog I'm at my office, but I have a crazy dog named Doris. Who's insane. So don't worry.5 (44m 18s):I have a puppy. And she's like, she's hit her like, oh yeah. I've been2 (44m 22s):Grab her.5 (44m 24s):Can you come over here please? No. Okay. So yeah like, like with, if then they like, you know, like they changed so many keys for her to like find what is good for her, you know what I know? So that way this is done, but so, you know, I want to originate. I want to be at a place where I'm not replacing, you know, I want to be originating. So that way2 (44m 51s):Originating roles on Broadway.5 (44m 54s):Yes. And I really want to get into TV and film. I like want to be doing2 (44m 57s):So. So yeah. And I don't think there's any reason why not. And it's starting to pick up again. So like I would just put it out there that I, if I were you, I would give I'm giving you totally unsolicited advice To LA for another try another six months out here. And I feel like it's different. What I feel in LA right now. And it's why I moved from Chicago is that there is an expansiveness in Los Angeles that look, it can be full of garbage, of course. But there is an expansiveness and the people I'm meeting are like, especially the younger folks are like creating massive amounts of art and content.2 (45m 40s):And even I'm seeing theater out here and it's amazing. And also film and TV. So all I would say is, I think we're in an age where I, it does feel like in LA a lot of things and people listening like old, old timers listening are probably like, oh, shut up. But like, I do feel like we are coming to the end of where it's oversaturated with content from streamers and people are like, no, no, no, we don't need more. What we need is like very specific shows and movies that are, I think we're good. We're contracting a little bit, which is not bad. So it's going to be more for me anyway, like gritty, heartfelt, smaller stories, which I fucking adore.2 (46m 23s):So all I'm saying is come to LA and we'll be friends. That's what I'm saying, Come to my office and we can hang out and do all the things. But anyway, okay. So you want to do film and TV? Like what kind of roles? Like if I said to you, okay, magic wand. Here you go. Jackie, what kind of roles are you? I know you're like, so game to play anything, but like where do you think you'd really shine in television and film?5 (46m 48s):I think I'd really, that's a good, such a good, really good question. I think I am more of a, like of a quirkier than most people think I am. Do you know what I mean? Like a lot of people, especially like when I straightened my hair and like, they're like, oh, you're like a sexy, like, you know, and I'm like, I'm really kind of goofy and quirky.2 (47m 9s):Yeah. You're like more of an ally McBeal than a like Gina Gershon. Bad-ass like that you have a more quirky quirkiness to it.5 (47m 18s):Yes. And because I looked the way I looked people, I was just thinking about baddest, but I have a softness about me that I can't get rid of. Like I did just, there just is I, and so I am like the funny, but like also I'm going to tell you the truth. Cause I do have like, but in a, not in a, like, I'm going to cut your throat kind of way.2 (47m 38s):It's not aggressive. It's yeah. It's more like Ernest than that. There is an earnest quality.5 (47m 45s):Yeah. So I'm that? I just think like, you know, the best friend that's going to keep it real, but also as kind of a shit show and like, yeah,2 (47m 51s):Yeah, yeah. It's reminds me of like, you could, you could play a lot of things, but like you could play the partner of someone on television who like, who like keeps their partner in line, but it's also funny and sassy, but like is the, is the true north to somebody right. And earnest true north that's totally.5 (48m 15s):Yeah. Yes.2 (48m 17s):I feel like I should have a podcast where people come on and I like help market them.5 (48m 21s):I would, yes. I think that people wouldn't2 (48m 24s):Malarious, I'd be like, you're a real kind of Mike Shannon meats, you know, I don't know, John C. Riley type with a side of Ben Affleck or something like that. But anyway. Yeah. So, okay. So you want to do that and then are you auditioning right now for, is there what's happening on Broadway? What's happening off Broadway that you, that are you excited about? Anything what's happening? That you're excited about? Nothing. Okay, great.5 (48m 50s):I sadly to say it's kind of been really dry. Like I haven't had much additions and it's been a little like brutal.2 (49m 0s):Okay. Good to know. I mean, I look, look, it's better to be honest because here's the thing, like if we, and it also comes across, you know, that like if people come on this podcast or like, I'm talking to someone even in a party and they're like, it's fabulous. I mean, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, I don't buy this because I just don't buy it. My bullshit meter goes off. So it's been brutal. And I have to say like, it's been a really brutal for me too, but like in a, in a, in a, across the board. And I think this is a time. I mean, we're, I'm, I'm a triple Libra. So I have sun moon rising, all Libra, which means that I'm just a bonkers, but it also means I, we, I feel that we are in a huge transition time and as systems, whether that's Broadway, Hollywood, the government, whatever you believe, whatever systems as they sort of start to falter and fall in some ways, which is scary.2 (49m 55s):Cause it's, you know, I don't know. I have my thoughts about capitalism, but like systems are failing a little bit just because of the pandemic because of life, the climate, all this stuff, those of us in positions too are called to really come stand up and say, what do I want? How can I help? How can I be of service? And what do I really want to create? So it's like a beautiful time for artists to say, look, it's brutal too, but like there's opportunity in the brutality of like, wait a minute, who do I want to collaborate with? How do I want to collaborate? What kind of art do I want to make?2 (50m 35s):And what am I willing to do to make a living? And what am I not? And mostly for me, it's been about like, who do I want to align with? Who do I want to make, have partnerships with? And that to me is more important actually than the tasks I'm doing. It's like if I go into a writer's room and the, and the showrunners are fantastic and the writers are like we're crew and a team it's like, that would be I, and I'm all, I'm like totally putting this out into the universe. So I haven't been there yet. So like, I'm pre, but like, I can imagine that that is like more important to me than the actual dialogue or writing. Do you know what I mean?5 (51m 15s):Yes. I2 (51m 16s):Will work on whatever show, if the people in charge and the team are dope as hell, it's sort of not as important, what the it's still important, but it's not like it's more for me anyway. It's more the team, right? It's the team and who gets me and who I get. And at the end of the day, am I willing to go to bat for these people? And are they willing to go to bat for me versus it's like, again, it goes back to like collaboration versus, you know, like pick me, choose me, love me. And so that's what I wish for you is like, is like you find your next team of people that are like your champions that you can champion.2 (51m 57s):And then I think the project will sort of work itself out. Do you know what I mean?5 (52m 1s):Yeah, totally.2 (52m 2s):So listen, casting, listen, listen, people, Jackie burns. Bad-ass not just musical theater star, but musical theater star. And yeah. So what else is happening? Anything else you need to say, like to your, to people listening that they must to know about you or where you are in your life in the world? Because this is like, we talk a lot about in this podcast about legacy. Like I don't have kids, so I don't know. So a lot of people can have their legacy through their children and I don't have that. And I have an asshole dog that doesn't give a shit about legacy and she's not gonna do anything for legacy. So I, my legacy is like this part of it is this podcast, which is going to be around forever until the aliens, you know, whatever.2 (52m 46s):And so, or whoever's taking over, what do you want, what do you have anything to say for posterity? That's like going to be immortalized forever on in the cloud?5 (52m 59s):I think for me, I am, it's all about like work ethic. I am such a, I never take for, I never take for granted. Like a lot of people will talk about, and it's not to say that I don't get tired and I don't get like, there aren't times where I'm like, oh God, this is brutal. But there, it never leaves me in the fact that like, anytime I get to do a show and I get stressed out about, I am definitely, I deal with my own issues with perfection. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like where, but it never leaves me that like, I am so lucky to get to do this. And I am so grateful for the audience. Like, it makes me want to cry. Like I like when people are like, oh, sometimes I go on autopilot where it's like, oh, it's the seventh show of the week. And it's like, but those people in that seven show or eights or a weekend spent so much money to come and see this show that I can't help, but give 180% every time I get out the gate because I am so appreciate.5 (53m 50s):Cause I know if they didn't come, we wouldn't have a job. And also there's like 8 million people that were up for this one role. And somehow I got it. And I'm not saying I wasn't talented enough for it because you know, we all are.2 (54m 4s):Yeah. But you got it. And it's your re there's like a responsibility and a stewardship of the, and a seriousness of the profession and the role and the, and the it's like sacred in a way. Like, it's a thing. I, I totally, I hear that. Okay.5 (54m 20s):I think it's so important. And I think it's so important to give, like, this is like, it's hilarious. Like I don't, unless I can do a certain note, like, unless if I can, if I can't take up a note consistently eight times a week, I won't do it because I don't think it's fair that like, oh, well I can do it like three times a week. So those special three peep, three shows, they get it. And then the other ones get my, like, you know, less than show, like regular show because like they all paid a crap ton of money. So like, for me, I don't know, it's a cuckoo thing. Like I'm not somebody who's like giving you a different vocal show every day, depending on how I feel. I am going to give you the, like, I want2 (54m 60s):You give your best all the time. If you're when possible. And when, and if, and you don't mess around with that, you like, don't try to manipulate what people are going to get. And I, you know, I did a solo show, which was the word, like I loved my solo show in New York, but I did a solo show about cancer. And I worked for Nick cage for years. So that's in my solo show. I have like this crazy life. I was a therapist, all the things. So yeah, I've had a crazy life, but the point is I did this solo show and one night there was one ticket sold, okay. One ticket. And I went to my friend and I was like mother fucker. And I said, I don't do I do this show for one person. And she said, listen to me, who are you not to do the show for one person?2 (55m 40s):What if that one person needs to hear what you have to say? Who are you not to do the show? And I did it. And I, I did the show and I hope they got something out of it. And I, but, but she just said like, that person needs to hear what you have to say. They, they, they need to, and who are you not to give it to them? If that's your gift to offer, you've got to give it. And I was like, oh, and it changed my sort of my idea of like what it means to be in collaboration with the audience and like it, I was like, oh right. One person matters. That matters, right? Like that matters the one person, even if it's one person that got a discount ticket in Idaho that flew it, they matter to see you in wicked or whatever.0 (56m 39s):If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez, and Gina are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound mixed by Gina for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.

The Manchild can be a fun character or they can be pathetic. They're a staple of comedies because they're an adult that gets to act immature and childish, without the restraint and responsibilities imposed by adulthood. This can make a great contrast; “The adult man acting like an immature child”, John C Riley and Will Farrel have always done that extremely well, as did Chris Farley back in the 90s. It can be be portrayed as pathetic and sad when the person can't seem to be able grow up or take on any responsibilities. They're often characterised by people with “childish” interests, like the cast of the Big Bang Theory, or with a childlike love of something like sports like Kevin in Kevin can F Himself. This trope was particularly dominated by male characters until recently when female characters have finally been able to join their ranks. My theory was that the majority of writers always used to be males and so were much better at portraying women from an external perspective; i.e. as what they mean to males: desirable, caring, scary etc, rather than an internal perspective showing what it's like to BE them, as they did with male characters. A good example of this is the Simpsons where Homer is usually a manchild while Marge is generally a responsible mother who holds the family together. But now we see more instances of women allowed to be silly, immature, pathetic, childish and funny, just like their male counterparts and it's really good to see that balance being restored; All about Steve with Sandra Bullock, most Melissa McCarthy and Rebel Wilson films, Muriel's Wedding, even Fleabag depicts a womanchild character, although in a very self critical light. In the end though I think the trope resonates with us because we are all really still children inside, underneath the superficial trappings of adult responsibilities, restraints, and tastes are the same childhood exuberances and joys. The biggest, meanest, bearded, hairy man or the old white haired bespectacled woman are still the same kids inside that they were when they were growing up and this is something that we all have in common. The older I become the more I look back at the facile childhood aspirations to adulthood -things like wanting to drive, to drink, take drugs, fight in a war, lose one's virginity- as being the epitome of immaturity and childishness. None of those things are about growing up or adulthood in any way, in fact they're exactly the reverse. Adulthood is about responsibilities. The womanchild and manchild characters can allow us to vicariously enjoy adult life without responsibility, whether it's in a positive way like The Dude or negative like Zach Galifianakis' Alan in The Hangover series. Do you agree? What are your fave Womanchilds and manchilds? This week Gunwallace has given us a theme to Zeitgeist B-Side - Dizzy, dreamy, acoustic guitar, throwing moods and colour. This takes us from a minimal white apartment, to the twilight shadows of the evening in a forested wood. Night surrounds and pervades. Topics and shownotes Links Banes' Newspost Manchildren - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/news/2022/jul/21/the-manchild/ Featured comic: The Waves Inside - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/news/2022/jul/26/featured-comic-the-waves-inside/ Featured music: Zeitgeist B-Side - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/B_Side/ - by ISTKY, rated M. Special thanks to: Gunwallace - http://www.virtuallycomics.com Tantz Aerine - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Tantz_Aerine/ Ozoneocean - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/ozoneocean PitFace - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/PIT_FACE/ Banes - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/Banes/ Kawaiidaigakusei - https://www.theduckwebcomics.com/user/kawaiidaigakusei/ VIDEO exclusive! Become a subscriber on the $5 level and up to see our weekly Patreon video and get our advertising perks! - https://www.patreon.com/DrunkDuck Even at $1 you get your name with a link on the front page and a mention in the weekend newsposts! Join us on Discord - https://discordapp.com/invite/7NpJ8GS

We need your help in nominating us for The Podcast Awards The People's Choice. Through the end of July listeners can go to the website available in the show notes and vote for us in the TV & Film category. Click the Blue Button and begin nominating shows. Thank you and we love you. Here is the link: https://www.podcastawards.com Today we are talking about probably one of our most quoted movies. With gems like, “DRIVE THROUGH THE SMOKE COLE!”, and “I want you to hit the pace car”, Days of Thunder is filled with great scenes and lines. (Most delivered by Robert Duvall) The 1990 film directed by Tony Scott and starring Tom Cruise, Robert Duvall, Nicole Kidman, Randy Quaid, Cary Elwes, Michael Rooker and John C. Riley is about a young hot shot stock car driver gets his chance to compete at the top level. Harry Hogge: [speaking to Cole condescendingly about engines] “Now Cole, when that little needle goes up into the red and reads *nine thousand RPM*, that's bad!” Some of our favorite parts of this movie are: The producers and writer spent two years researching the film Many of the stories were pulled from real life events Tony Scott, Don Simpson and Jerry Bruckheimer often held up filming fighting Robert DuVall is perfect in this film Many actresses turned down the role of Claire Lewicki Special thanks to our editor Geoff Vrijmoet for this episode and Melissa Villagrana for helping out with our social media posts. Next week's film will be Lady Driver (2020) available on Netflix Subscribe, Rate & Share Your Favorite Episodes! Thanks for tuning into today's episode of Dodge Movie Podcast with your host, Mike and Christi Dodge. If you enjoyed this episode, please head over to Apple Podcasts to subscribe and leave a rating and review.

Do you lock your bedroom door? Daniel and El Cucuy have extremely different takes on this. It actually makes for the most heated episode of The After Show But Later. With Winning Time being all the rage, Daniel brings up a classic Covino and Rich moment with John C. Riley and spoiler, it did not go over well with JCR. Daniel and El Cucuy list their Top 8 fast food places as well as their Top 8 movies. Daniel tells the story about his interaction with Criss Angel's mom and when he fist bumped Criss himself. This conversation was brought on by Man in the Arena the Tom Brady documentary. ……………………………………………………. MERCH: After Show Shirt https://www.amazon.com/dp/B096YRQDYR/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_D6C7Q2VBY5MKME9TZ6XR After Show Hoodie https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09MLD32VR/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_F3P2WG8RWVWHSAQ93BSR ...................................................................... Feeling Generous? CashApp and Venmo AfterShowBL (100% of the money goes back into our show. It helps with production, giveaways, & more.) ....................................................................... Intro Music: "Tre Traxxx" A Day in the 757 (streaming everywhere) ....................................................................... Social Media The After Show: @AfterShowBL El Cucuy: @GavZilla559 ....................................................................... AfterShow YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/TheAfterShowButLater ....................................................................... *Disclaimer* The After Show But Later is NOT affiliated with the Covino and Rich Show. Episode analytics --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/theaftershowbutlater/support

Gina made a terrible lasagne. Boz debunks the myth of chicken. Carl Buddig beef bags, Doritos, smoked soup, Colombian food, HOKAs, FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):2 (10s):And I'm Gina Kalichi.1 (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.2 (15s):And at 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.1 (21s):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?2 (34s):Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. It is. I Gina reporting to you live. I mean, it's live to me, but it's not live to you because you most definitely aren't hearing it in the exact moment. I'm saying it, but you get the idea. It's Monday night, I'm here at my house sitting in my room where I always record when I talked to boss and I'm I'm, I'm coming on here to tell you that. Hmm. Do you know that expression inside baseball?2 (1m 15s):I don't understand when people say, oh, that's too inside baseball. Because for me, all I care about is the inside of something. I don't even like baseball. I'd love to be inside baseball. You want to show me where they get the dirt off their cleats. Great. You want to show me what kind of savvy they have to use on their cracked hands from rubbing? Oh, that says this is going to sound sexual. I don't mean it that way, but from holding the bat. Yeah. I want to see that you want to, you want to tell me about contract negotiations? I mean, I want to hear that stuff. I want to hear that stuff more than I want to hear about, or, you know, like actually watch baseball anyway.2 (1m 59s):I'm, I'm bringing this phrase up because I've never understood why people, don't, what people think it's bad to be inside baseball. And also by way of telling you that today's episode is going to be a little inside baseball. We record every week. We interview people every week. And at the very beginning, we had so many interviews stacked up that it was months between when we would record somebody and when it actually aired. But once all of that stack got aired, now we pretty much go week to week and that's fine, unless, and until we have a cancellation or two, as the case is for us right now, we had two back-to-back cancellations.2 (2m 52s):So one time when we had this, I put, I repaired an old episode, which I thought was really a great episode. And I'm really glad I repaired it. And then a couple of times we've aired episodes with just BAAs and I talking with no interview. And the reason I like to put something up is because personally, when I listened to podcasts and people take a week off, I really hate that. I really hate when a podcast I'm really used to listening to, you know, coming out on a certain day and like, that's the day I'm gonna, Ooh, it's Tuesday. I get to whatever, walk my dog and listen to my favorite podcast.2 (3m 33s):I hate it when those people take a vacation, but that's what I did. I took a vacation last week and boss was going to record one solo, but her interview canceled. And then the person that we're supposed to speak to tomorrow canceled. So honestly, we're probably gonna have the same problem next week, unless something magical happens. And we're able to interview somebody else before this weekends and who I'm saying all this to say, we do have an episode today. It is not previously aired material. It is boss and I talking, but it is not an interview.2 (4m 14s):And if that's not your jam that I get it, you can, you can just skip this one. Maybe this is not, maybe this is not the one for you, but if you're like me and you are inside baseball and you like things that are inside baseball. And by the way, I mean, it's not like it's inside baseball in the sense that we're talking about, you know, like the platform that we're hosting our podcasts, it's not actually really inside baseball. It's just not, it's just not our typical episode. Anyway, I also want to take this opportunity to think we have actually kind of a surprising number of listeners in other countries.2 (4m 54s):And I have never done something that I've always wanted to do, which is acknowledge all of these wonderful listeners. And so I'm going to do that right now. First we have New Zealand and I happen to know the person who listens to us from New Zealand or at least one of the people. And he Sean Spratt. And he went to theater school with us. And one day we'll have him on the podcast, but thank you, Sean Spratt for your listenership. Very much appreciated. We have listeners in Spain, the United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, Germany, Singapore, Russia. Although not for the last couple of months.2 (5m 34s):If you know what I mean. France, Jordan, Nepal, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Israel, Virgin islands, pork bowl, Rico, Mexico, Austria, Sweden, Palestine, the Netherlands, Morocco, South Korea, Japan, Finland. I heard Finland has great coffee. I'd like to go there someday. Bangladesh, Uganda, Slovakia, Poland, Ireland, Indonesia, and BA. Right? Thank you to all of you, whoever you are out there listening to our little podcast. I appreciate you.2 (6m 15s):I do. I appreciate you deeply. I am also going to take this opportunity to recognize some fabulous comments that people have left on apple podcasts in the form of reviews. Something. I also greatly appreciate Larkin and Ellis says what a fun show to listen to and to have communion with other theater folks. So many of us survived, thrived or crashed. That's true. Afterschool and hearing tales of everyone's experience brings such humanity to the process. Jen and Gina are delightful and treat each, each guest with such grace, highly recommend. Thank you, Larkin Ellis.2 (6m 57s):Next. We have Zoe incredibly warm, funny and fascinating. These hosts get the best out of their guests. If you are involved in any part of the acting business, this will be a fascinating podcast for you. If you went to any theater school, this could be an opportunity for immense healing and processing things you didn't even know needed more attention. I laughed so hard. I cried. It was bad. It was better than cats. Thank you, Sophie. All right, BJP. Oh, that's I know who this is. This is Brian Brian Polak, who has also a great podcast. I mean, he had an episode on ours, but he's the host of the subtext podcast, which is all about playwrights.2 (7m 38s):And very interesting. If you haven't listened to it, please do his latest urban. I don't know if it's his actual latest, but one of his most recent ones features Tracy Letts. So that's cool. Anyway, Brian says not only are the interviews always free range and fascinating, but the conversations between Jen and Gina that begin each episode are warm and fun. It's like catching up with old friends every new time. Every time a new episode comes out. Thank you. Brian Love that. Scott says this podcast is such a gift, exclamation point. Anyone who has dabbled in the fine arts can relate to the conversations that the hosts and guests are discussing. I would also go as far as to say, listening to this podcast is like having a free therapist, especially if you are embarking on a career in the performing arts.2 (8m 25s):Thank you, Scott. Lovely Scott. Oh, and then here's one I wrote for myself. Yes I did. This is an inside baseball moment. I wrote my own review because I feel at times very desperate to get reviews. So I wrote one for myself. Love the way it is to interrogate the psychological makeup of actors and others who pursue an education at a conservatory. Thank you, Gina. Thank you for your comments, Gina. What a sweet girl. You are. Jimmy McDermott says these ladies dig deep. Thanks Jimmy. Somebody who calls themselves four lifetimes ago, love that love listening to this podcast.2 (9m 8s):As it leads me down memory lane, I'm also able to reflect on my own time, spent at theater school and what it meant to me and how it shaped me into who I am today. Gina and Jen are fantastic hosts, very welcoming with thoughtful questions. Thank you for lifetimes ago that we've got eat Beth James, this pod delightfully dives into fascinating memories and lessons from dream chasers in their youth. A must listen for everyone who has even entertained a life in theater, yay to Jen and Jayna for bringing this quirky subject to life in such a real and interesting way. Thank you. E Beth James, who was nice. Happy in Galveston.2 (9m 48s):Just finished listening to y'all's interview of my son's Seiler. Oh yeah. Okay. So this is sailor's mama y'all did an amazing, oh, I'm going to read it like I'm from Texas. Just finished listening to y'all's interview with my son, Tyler Siler, not Tyler. Tyler is a very Texas named Seiler. Of course y'all did an amazing job. I've known him for 47 years and I learned so much about him. I never thought for a minute that he'd be bullied at theater school, not my Sattler, but it was a real relief to know it didn't happen. Something he didn't mention is that he was a year ahead in school and contracted a ripper in case mano right before leaving for college. So he started college in Chicago as a 17 year old with the case of mano and Dave.2 (10m 32s):Great. It was really fun. Hearing him recount the shows he was in that bear costume was the worst. I'll look forward to hearing interviews with Kevin and PJ. Great. And we did interviews with Kevin and PJ. So I hope you liked those Mrs. Siler. Thomas' mom. All right. You got the idea. I love these nice reviews. Thanks to everybody who gave one who wrote one. And if you are not among those who have read, reviewed us rated or reviewed us, what are you waiting for? Literally? What are you right this second? What are you waiting for? A pause.2 (11m 12s):This rambling that I'm doing and go leave us a review. Okay. Thanks. Appreciate it. All right. I think I've, I think I've yammered long enough. Please enjoy this conversation. Or actually to be honest, it's like three different conversations that it edit it together. Please enjoy this chit chat sesh with me and buzz love you. I'm sorry to hear about your lasagna. I made the word, it was disgusting.2 (11m 53s):I a leftover rotisserie chicken and I Googled like, what can I do with my leftover rotisserie chicken? And I saw this thing make a lasagna with mush. It happened to be all the ingredients that I had and needed to use mushrooms, spinach and rotisserie chicken. Now I will say, I thought to myself that doesn't sound like a good lasagna, like rotisserie chicken. Yeah. I don't know mushrooms are okay. It's finishes. Okay. But the rotisserie chicken and then it was a white sauce and girl, it was, I mean, simply inevitable. And I'm the person in the family who, because I make the food, even if it's not good, I eat it because I spent a lot of time making that, you know, I had this one had to make its way to the, to the trash and media Mente.2 (12m 38s):Nobody, even nobody else. Even my son is lactose intolerant. So he really can't use something like that. Anyway, I had made him a special version. He can eat cheddar, I guess, letters like certain cheeses that are made to him. A version of it, the head cheddar cheese, he actually said it was really good. Maybe it was better than, you know, because it had more like Tang to it. But that's the thing you need to have some acidity. This had zero acidity. It was just right. That's very interesting. I was thinking about that on my walk over here. Cause I saw your posts and I was like, yeah, I think that white sauce is really hard to pull off. Like yeah, unless maybe you have to have like tons of butter and then, but then the rotisserie chicken, which reminds me of a story.2 (13m 24s):So my, my mom, okay. After Thanksgiving, right at we'd have this Turkey carcass. Right. And then she'd make the Turkey soup. Okay. But one year my uncle, aunt and uncle came from San Francisco, you know, they're from San Francisco. So they wanted to smoke and brine the Turkey. Okay. Let me tell you something. If you've ever had a smoked Turkey soup, it's the most disgusting Turkey, Turkey noodle soup. I mean, I ate it and I was like, mom, what, what, what, what what's happening? And she was like, well, I just, I said, wait, this is the smoked Turkey. You can't have smoked soup.2 (14m 6s):It's like the word wait, was your mama? No, no, but she, okay. So my mom was not ever like literally we, I grew up on McDonald's and I don't know if I've told the budding beef story here. Okay. So kind of one thing. So our lunch has kids. Oh my God. It's no wonder that I have food issues. Like our lunches kids and I don't look, she was doing the best she could. I don't, I I'm. I'm just sick. It's a travesty. What went on. So we had in a lunch bag, a whole bag of fake Karl budding beef bags, which are, which are just fake beef. I don't know if you've ever seen it in the store.2 (14m 46s):Go in the cold cut section. I don't even know if it's legal to sell this shit anymore. But they had Carl budding beef, which wasn't real beef. Yeah. Oh, it was like a vegan thing or no, no, no. It's like spam, like processed beef. So like processed. Yeah. Like processed beef and beef beef. Did she say beef bag? Yeah. Okay. So it's in a bag in a bag and, and there's like 20, probably 24 slices in a bag. My mom would put the whole bag in our lunch. So we'd have 20 and it was salty. No wonder. I mean like it's all, she would just throw the whole bag in.2 (15m 29s):It was probably $2 or bag at that time. So she would throw the whole bag of beef in and then yeah. Well she wasn't, I mean, my mom was literally like, let me just work and fuck these people. And then, okay. So that was that a bad and it wasn't like back then they didn't have the small snack size bags. So it was like a snack ish size bag of Doritos, which we would wrap each Dorito and a piece of beef. Oh God. Okay. So Doritos. Okay. It was Doritos, a beef fat. I'd be like, mom, there's no food. And she'd be like, grab yourself a beef bag for lunch. Be fat. Just a bag of obese.2 (16m 9s):Yeah. And it was so that it was so salty. I remember it. Okay. So, so I'd have the Doritos and the beef bag and it have been so thirsty after lunch. Well, no wonder I have like I high blood pressure. I'm like, this is, this is the impetus for the whole thing. Then it would be a Capri sun to wash it down and then dessert for dessert. It was literally okay. My mom thought she was doing this great thing by getting hostess, went through a phase of doing hostess light. I don't know if you remember, they had light and they had light cupcakes. So it was like a plastic version of their real co she would throw one of those in there. That was my lunch for probably 10 years.2 (16m 51s):Well, every day, like, yeah. Do you ever, could you ever by hotline? Yeah. So Friday, sometimes the hot lunch was literally the square pizza and tater tots. Right, right. Certainly were not, there was no chance of you getting nutrition. I had no vegetables or fruit ever, like ever. And then when she would cook and my dad, you know, he didn't do shit. So, but when she would cook, it would be like weird shit. Like she would make vats of like beef goulash. She's Colombian. What is she making beef goulash for? It was why didn't she make Colombian food? Not, it's not my favorite thing. It's a lot of, some of it's good, but she, she wanted to just assimilate and fuck her past understandably, but also it's a lot of starches.2 (17m 41s):It takes a lot of time. It's a lot of like flowery doughy, everything. So it wouldn't have been that much more nutrition, but it might have tasted better. Yeah, dude, it was, and the goulash would be frozen. Oh my God. She would freeze the goulash. And it was egg noodles. And this meat that had the strange sauce, like tangy, speaking of tangy, but not tangy in the greatest way. And then we'd have to, and I'd be like dad, where, and she was always out of town. I'd be like, dad, I'm not eating this. So we'd order pizza. That was the first. Okay, well this is, this is really sounding so familiar to me. So when I was growing up, my, my mother who worked more than full time, came home every single night and made dinner.2 (18m 24s):And you know, she had her repertoire, but I mean, she, she made dinner from, there was nothing she didn't even use. Like, and they didn't really have too much of it then, you know, nothing was really pre-made. She, she, she made dinner and of course I always hated it because it was something like, you know, she cooked fish or she, you know, she had these weird she's from New Mexico. So she has these looks, she puts all of us in her spaghetti sauce. It's just like some weird things like that. So there's lots of things that she made that I didn't like, but I so relate to it now. And I relate to your mother freezing the goulash because it's just like every night I have to cook dinner every night.2 (19m 6s):And of course I have this panel of critics. That's just like everything I make disgusting. If it's, if it's nutritious in any way, if it's not nutritious, then, then they're really happy with it. Oh my God. That sounds horrible. It's horrible. So I've had this very like passive aggressive relationship and resentful relationship with cooking for my family. We end up ordering out, like I would say, well, definitely two nights a week, but some weeks three. And it's, I hate it. I just, I hate absolutely everything about it. And I also relate to being on the receiving end of food that, you know, it's just like, it's a no win situation.2 (19m 47s):It really is. I mean, I think the only thing to do is like, when kids are like two and three, get them to start cooking and be like, fuck it. You're on your own because you know, so my son can really cook. He can really cook, but he's low on the motivation. He's like, that's, you know, that's kinda your job and he's not, he's not wrong. I mean, you know, as much as I, he's not wrong, it is sort of my job. But anyway, yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's not good, but okay. How do we get because of my lasagna? Oh, the lasagna. So yeah, I, I saw, I heard that and I, I, I read that this morning and I was like, Ooh, but the good news is that the chicken? I mean the chicken, well, I guess the chicken would have ended up in the garbage anyway, but did, did the dog eat any of it?2 (20m 31s):No. You don't give that to them. I gave, well, I gave no, I gave the dog like the skin of the chicken that I wasn't using on the middle of Sunday. But I forgot to mention, I made it on Sunday, which is the day that you so graciously ordered my family pizza, which is why we didn't meet lasagna on Sunday. We ate it last night, but then we, it was gross. But on Sunday, I guess everybody have to tell everybody where we texting or talking on the phone phone about a funny audition situation. Yeah. And I was telling you, like Aaron had a stomach bug. My daughter had her broken arm. My son, oldest child always has some pains.2 (21m 14s):Oh yeah. Yeah. He's like, I woke up, I walked out the door. The first thing I see is just blood all over the bathroom. Mostly has been going on for 30 minutes. It looked like a crime scene in there. I mean, it was just one thing after the other. So you sent me pizza. Yeah. I don't even feel that. And you sent these something we'd never had before. It's wings, boneless wings, but oh my God, those were a huge hit. So yeah, because you know what my thing is because I'm so greedy, Gina is that you don't want the bone getting in the way of the food. So just eat the goddamn, like who needs the bone?2 (21m 54s):Like, fuck the bone. Like you want the food? I don't go in for like ribs. I don't go in for anything with a bone. I'm like, I mean, rotisserie chicken. Okay. But I just take the honk of breastfeed off. I don't need a bone getting in my way is what I'm telling you. Okay. But a bone, like, honestly, you might want to reconsider that because food meats cooked with Bonin are usually more flavorful and tender. True. That true debt to debt. So like, I think you're right. Like, but I also am known to love a dry as fuck piece of chicken. I don't yeah. The chicken breasts without anything on it. Yeah. I, there is some weird thing about me that I, and also, you know, which is sad that I love chicken so much because my doctor told me there's no nutritional value in chicken.2 (22m 42s):Like, like literally, yeah. The protein, it's like a very small amount of protein in chicken. It's like garbage, garbage it's air. Like basically. So we're killing these chickens and we're thinking we're eating, being healthy. And really she's like, just eat fish like that. You, you just, chicken is not. And I was so sad when, cause she said eat before eight. If you're not going to eat beef, do fish. But like you don't count on a chicken for your protein is what Joe, Kayla, the chicken damn that's up ending my entire, we ate chicken all the time. I'm always like, that's the healthier thing to give my kids. No, I know. And like, I, it was like, I wish it was different, but chicken is like a non issue.2 (23m 23s):Like a it's like not really a thing. No. And I was like, well, you know what? Like chick Chick-fil-A is going to be up in arms about this big that's right. And what about eggs? Can we have that's all protein. All. Okay. But she was like, literally I think she said, and I wish we had so many listeners that they would like write in and tell me I was wrong. So if you are listening and tell me that I'm wrong. But like, I think she said that like, there's more protein in like four florets of broccoli than a chicken breast. Oh, that isn't the same. This is reminding me of it's reminding me of when I found out that the reason that we all thought breakfast was the most important meals because the cereal companies put off that how much of our life is just a complete lie foisted.2 (24m 18s):Well, I advertising you asked Adam McKay all of it, all of it. All right. We are so influenced by every single thing. Yeah. So anyway that, yeah, I know. I know that. I know that's really true for me. I know 1000% that I will buy something with prettier packaging. Even if it's not as good quality as the other, that's it, it all goes back also to my, my Charleston chew a story. I never told you this. So what? I was little, another something fell. Oh, okay. When I was little, my mom said you can get any candy bar at the store. Right.2 (24m 58s):And my greedy ass was like, I'm going to get the biggest candy bar. The biggest one. I I'm going to get the biggest one because I was greedy. Right. And also food was loved to me. Right. So, I mean, that's the truth. So I was like, I'm going. So we went to the store and I remember looking Snickers that I'm like, look at that motherfucking Charleston shoe. It's like 10 feet long. But I didn't know. I never had a Charleston shoe. So my sister got probably something reasonable received, something like that. I got this huge Charleston shoe thinking. I fucking beat the system. I con this bitch out of a huge, it tasted like it was like a strawberry vanilla coaster.2 (25m 39s):Right. Just ripped out my retainer. Like that's all I was like, that was my first lesson in greed that in, you know, like the, so there's other stories. But like that, that, that story was like, oh my God, you can't trust. So we've learned this morning, Gina, you can't trust a chicken for your protein and you can't fucking trust a Charleston shoe or a white sauce or a white sauce. That was the first lesson this morning. That was the first lesson. Yeah. Anyway, how is miles? His birthday know? It was really good. It was okay. So there's this place in, in Pasadena that I, my friend works at and she's the funniest.2 (26m 20s):I mean, she's like, we're friendly. We're not like good buddies, but she, she works at this place called noodle street. Okay. And you, and it's not noodles. And co which miles told everyone, I was taking him to noodles and fucking co for his birthday. I was like, is that a fast? It's like pancakes. I'm like miles. You can't tell people that I'm not that ridiculous. Not that there's any, well, there is wrong with that. Like, I can't take you there for your birthday. Like that for a celebration ticket, injured husband to Panera. I mean, some people probably do it look, but whatever it's like on the Pinera level, but noodle street is a handmade noodle company in Pasadena. And my friend Christina works there.2 (27m 0s):Who's hilarious. And I wanted to take him there. So we went to noodle street and it was one of those things where we're like, Christina, just give us a bunch of food. Right. She literally, there were like 10 dishes. I was like, it was so much food that miles miles does the same. And I love him. And, and look, I obviously have food issues, but he will eat until he throws up sometimes like that, that, or almost like, I've never, I haven't done that. And since I was a child, I don't think. But like he, he can't and it's not like we just so good. He can't stop himself. There's a problem area.2 (27m 40s):And so this happened at Ethiopian once where he literally threw up and had to do something in his mouth, you know what I mean? Like he can't stop himself. So he just went crazy and it's really like, they used, you know, she uses it's it's Asian fusion and there's all different, cool spices. Oh my God. So I didn't want to be the jerk. That's like, like censoring my husband, but, or like trying to food shaman, but I'm like, miles, you gotta slow down. Like this is not going to go. Well, like when he busted into the ramen, the beef, the pork res braised ramen after like six other dishes, I was like, oh dude. And so then he was, he was, he had a problem.2 (28m 21s):He didn't actually have the problem, but we were, so we, we had to close and we were going to go get ice cream and he's like, I can't do it. Luckily we walked. Right. So we could move a little bit. I was fine, but we don't do really. We don't do presence. So like, not that we don't either. Yeah. Because everything you buy is sort of like, I mean, you know, you, you have the money for what you need and then if you have extra money, it's usually for things that are going to be urgent, like you have to fix something in your car, right. Oh, for me, it's like any extra money goes towards my Hoka recovery sandals and my Hoka. Okay. What's a mile sent me a video of you doing a Hoka dance.2 (29m 2s):What is a Hoka? Okay. So whole, because our shoes that I believe hookah Ona, Ona, which is one, one, but it's, I believe Hawaiian, Japanese influent look, I'm ignorant. I don't know. But it is not pronounced one, one. That's all I know it's own. I own a, and so Hoka on it own, it is the name of a company they make for me, with my plantar fasciitis in my right foot and just getting old Sebas shoes. Like I'm wearing my hookup. I'm wearing them right now. You can't see, but like, they are there. Some of them are, but ugly like platform. Like, like they look like a platform sneakers sometimes, but like, like the janky brand, but they aren't, they are there's walking shoes and trail shoes.2 (29m 52s):And I tried to run a them and it's a little clunky, but their soul light and they're really expensive, but they also make a recovery slide. Okay. So this is a very Californian situation, but in your, my floors are so hard and because it's fake wood right. In our apartment and I have bad feet. So I, you know, feet problems right now. So my doctor was like, you cannot walk barefoot. And it's so warm in California. Barefoot is the worst you can't work or people shouldn't walk. You should not walk barefoot on hard surfaces. No, no, no. I know it's not a good deal. So even so in California, it's so warm.2 (30m 34s):You're like, I'll just put on my flip flops. Terrible idea. Flip-flops should be abolished unless they are orthotic flip-flops this is partially how I got into my problem. So I have higher arches, but even if you have regular arches, my friends, you need support on your feet, especially as you get older. So I didn't know this. It's not even like flip flops or the new high heels, like what we shouldn't be doing, you know? Oh my God, that's insane. And my acupuncture has been saying this Liz I'm so sorry. I'd never listened to you. She said this for years, I saw her 10 years ago. And she was saying this, so recovery slides are Hoka makes a recovery slide, which is basically like a slide, like an Adidas or van slide.2 (31m 16s):But they're like super orthopedic. They're not pretty, I mean, minor kind of pretty cause they're blue. But like, they look like, yeah, regular slides, but they're super tall. And this made out of this really light, plastic and rubber, and they are so comfortable for when you come home, you take off your shoes and you don't go barefoot, you go in your recovery. So it's like, how shoes, how shoes? But like for like people would stuff. Yeah. They're really expensive. Like hookahs are like $175, $200 shoes. And the recovery slides are one 50. It's not cheap. Like I had to save up, we used our fucking credit card points for my Hoka collection.2 (31m 57s):Like that's what I'm saying. Like that, that's what it's for. Right. So anyway, so my jam and like, you know, people, you know, like I feel like Eddie Vetter is a big Hoka fan. It's like a hippie kind of thing. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, you know, I'm sure any better has a good need for support. Just like the rest of us so old, like we are. But also I was gonna say like, I actually didn't know, my husband sent you that video. That's hilarious. What? Oh, so cute. He's only ever texted me twice, but both times he started with this is miles, which is adorable. And I want him to be like, I know I have your number saved into my phone, 55.2 (32m 39s):So anyway. Yeah. I think he, I think he, you know, I think he thinks that you're the greatest thing ever, which I love because you are, and I'm glad that you have somebody who thinks you're the greatest thing. Oh, it's much better than what I used to have. Yeah. I know much better. The diametric opposite. Opposite. Yeah. No, if people like, no, I was telling someone's people in LA that are like younger than us, but approaching 40 are always like dating in LA is the worst. And I'm like, it is, it's really bad here. It's really, really bad. And I would tell them stories about when I was here in oh six and it was the worst or oh five.2 (33m 22s):And it was the worst. Is it really bad? Just because of the problem of like everybody's posturing. Cause it's like that in New York, I think to people, you know, people are at that phase of life where they're really just trying to make something of themselves. And it's a lot about like getting to the next, whatever. Yeah. I think it's what you talk about, which is just straight up sexism where like the men who are okay. So no one, my friend is like 38. I think she said my co-working friend. And she was just saying that like the men, her age, won't date, 38 year olds, they will only date 28 year olds. So she has to date 68 year olds or 58 year olds.2 (34m 5s):Okay. All right. That's the problem. It's so boring. I'm like, you know what? Fuck, this it's diagnostic too. Like when you, when you read about people, you know, the Leonardo DiCaprio's of the world who only ever it's like, okay, but so that's, that's either because you are psychologically, emotionally, whatever yourself, still 20. So you need, or it's because you are so narcissistic that you need somebody who's docile and who you can basically tell what, you know, whatever your garbage is too. And they'll believe you because they're so young. I always knew that about Leonardo DiCaprio, but I just recently read about somebody else who it's like, it's like everybody it's like Larry, David, it's not, it's not even like, like sexy young youngish dudes or middle-aged dudes.2 (34m 53s):It's like everyone. And, and, and it's just so other dudes will say, oh my God, look at that dude. He got that young chick women don't give a fuck. I said, the other thing is it's. It's interesting. Cause when I worked for Nick cage, he married someone 20 years younger. She was awesome. I loved her. I love that. He's still married. No, I loved Alice. I loved her and it wasn't her fault, but it was a really apparently a match that, you know, didn't last. But what I realized in getting to know Alice was that it's like, right. I it's not, it's not her fault.2 (35m 33s):Like she, she's just trying to live her life. And she's also 2020. I was basically five years old. So like let's not get right. So anyway, I also know, like I try not to shame the women in those situations because I'm also like, yeah, but, but it's just a bad situation. I'm just like the And minus your shirt, you did some change.2 (36m 15s):I did a costume change. I was listening to God. I love Leslie Odom Jr. In Hamilton so much. Oh, have we never talked about that? I have never seen Hamilton or heard the music. Me neither until like six months ago when Gisa gave me a ticket to Hamilton in LA and it was not obviously Leslie, it was not that cast, but I thought I would hate it. Like I literally was like, I cannot do this. Like I, and then despite my best efforts to hate it for some reason, and to just want to be a hater, I fell in love with that musical, like fell in love.2 (36m 57s):And I was like, I'm in I'm all in. I don't, I cannot explain. I think it was also because I was in a place where I was like, holy shit, people make stuff like this, it's it. He takes the acting, the singing, the dancing. I was like, this is like, why we have, you know, this is the best of humanity, the very, very, very, very best. And then I got obsessed with the original soundtrack because it's, it's just, they're they're just brilliant. And the guy who plays Aaron Burr is Leslie Odom Jr. Who I didn't know from shit. Right. Obsessed. Like the guy, Aaron Burr is my favorite character in the whole show. He's the guy who kills Hamilton.2 (37m 38s):Right. So yeah. Well Lin Manuel Miranda did. I'm not sure if it was all of the music, but certainly some of the music for, in condo. Have you seen in content? Yeah. So I have such a weird relationship with that movie. I was curious about that, considering that it's about Columbia. Well, the thing is like, and I think people think I'm crazy for saying this, but like they never say it's Columbia. Like they never, they like, they, they have some of the soups they use in the colors they use for the, the, the Colombian flag colors. And like, but they never are specific. And it's also written by so Lin, Manuel is not Colombian. And also Shariece Castro Smith who wrote and developed it is Cuban.2 (38m 20s):What do we do? I have to take issue with, they do say that it's Columbia, but it said in the lyrics, I said, oh, okay. I mean, but it's certainly not referenced like how many times Mexico is referenced cocoa. And I did have that thought like, well, Lin, Manuel Miranda is not collided, but the, but the music is really good. Music is brilliant. And I also think it's a huge step in the right direction. I just, I like wanted to love it more is one of those things. And that's a thing. And also I actually loved west side story. I didn't see it yet. See it, and let's have a talk about it.2 (39m 1s):I loved it. And people think also I'm insane for that. I was like the acting in west side fucking story is like, it's like a masterclass in this shit. Everyone, every single character I've heard that. I, I really haven't heard too many people not liking it. You know, people have find the musical very problematic and mama mama. And of course, of course everything is problematic. Like everything. Okay. Everything is so problematic. I know I just, yesterday saw the news that Pamela Anderson is going to be Roxie Hart and I you're making the same face that I made.2 (39m 42s):And then I saw today on Twitter people saying like, Hey, you know, this is a person who was recently publicly humiliate re humiliated after what re what she originally suffered, which is tantamount to, I guess it's the same it's revenge porn. Yeah. Let's give her this. And also Chicago has always cast stunt done stunt casting. That's that's Erika Jayne. The real Housewives of Beverly Hills was the last person who party. I'm not getting you. Oh my God. Yeah, no, I, I, I think it says, yeah. And also you're right.2 (40m 22s):It's like, why not? Like why don't we might as well just like, let her have it. And also she couldn't be fucking good. I don't know from this lady, it could be great. And also like it's Chicago, it's not Shakespeare. Right? Public. I have such a fear. It's funny Shakespeare at the public story. You do well, you might have to tell it cause we might have no interviews today. That's right. We can talk anyway. So I love the Hamilton song, wait for it, which is Aaron Burr's song. And he's talking about his family. And anyway, I just wanted to hate it so much.2 (41m 4s):Gina. I wanted to like be the one person that was like, this is garbage and this is, I really wanted that. And then when I saw it, I was weeping openly. And the people next to me were like, cause they had seen it. Everyone's seen it a million times. Right. So people who go to the LA show have seen it like on Broadway or like the Disney plus online situation. I didn't see shit. It was my first experience. And I was like, this is the greatest thing that ever was ever made. It's just, okay, I'm going to have to watch it. I I've been a hater for no good reason. And I should probably watch it. I think the thing that was off putting to me initially is like how much people liked it and how much like, I mean, just like older, white people, I just thought, okay, well you're really excited to hear rapping in this anachronistic way, but I, I think many, many people who I respect greatly think it's one of the best pieces of I did.2 (42m 8s):And I also just think like, you're right. Like I think it's all a combo platter, like super, super, super, super white people. Love it. And also, and all people love it too. Right. I mean, girl, I don't know. I just feel like, yeah, that was, it was, it was brilliant. So like on my spare time, like I listened to the soundtrack and I never thought I would do that. It's a very motivating, like I oh, okay. And also like if it's even one 18 super true to history, which I think it is super true in a way, then I've learned more than I ever have about his American history. So like, oh my God.2 (42m 49s):That's that is, I believe that I learned what kind of learner I am when I was in ninth grade. Yeah. Ninth grade. I took a very hard history class. It was honors world civilization. Oh my God. I remember that class. I took the same class and got exams were oral. What? So the exams were oral. So basically you had to say the hits, the broad points of the history of civilization from beginning to now.2 (43m 32s):Sounds very scary. It wasn't at all. Oh, I memorized it like a monologue and I freaking learned the history of world civilization that way. And it was news to me that I could have read that textbook a million times. I could have studied flashcards. So the cows came home. I would net I got a perfect score on this exam. And it's because I learn kinesthetically. Yeah. I need to have a story and I need to be involved with yes. I mean to the one number one way I learn is teaching others. And, and the funny, because I, I hate teaching. I hate teaching my husband.2 (44m 13s):That's a very, I should say I hate teaching my husband, but like teaching people that, that don't make me insane. I, I learn it. Like I remember I was like the best trainer at my hostess job because I loved it. I was like, oh, Hey one, you get to train people how to do it the way you like it to be done. And also you get to relearn it. And also to refresher, I loved being the trainer. I was like, I will do the training. I will do the training. Interesting. Very interesting. Okay. So what is your story about what'd you say you had a story about, oh, oh, oh, oh shit.2 (44m 53s):We are old. What the fuck it was about? I, all I keep thinking of is Charleston fucking shoe, but I told that story, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute on it. Oh my God. We'd have to replay the fucking tape. Yo to little oh, oh Hamilton. Before we were talking about what was the first thing we were talking about. And I looked and I said it was when I was doing, see, we were distracted. We were both checking our emails, the email, when you, right. Well, anyway, I have a lot of shame stories, so it could be any kind of same story. So it was, oh, I said Monica times.2 (45m 34s):No, it was w it had something to do with like acting or Hamilton or I had a no, or, oh God. Or maybe you thought maybe it was maybe when I started talking about in content, maybe you said you had a story about Hamilton. No. And console, what side story? The acting all it. Well, I will tell you that, like, there is something about obviously the pandemic that has reignited my absolute awe for performers, that nail shit. Like I absolute all I I'm like, especially people that can sing and dance and act at the same time.2 (46m 15s):I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? I don't give a shit. So, oh. And the other thing that I was going to say about Hamilton was in the audience. People are like, like poo-pooing the LA production. They're like critiquing it at, at, at the, I was gonna say halftime at intermission. They're like talking shit about it. And I just said, the ladies next to me, because look, they've become so nitpicky because they've seen it for a thousand times in every different place and all that. And I'm like, I just turned to them. I was sitting by myself, she got me a solo ticket because they couldn't get tickets together with her sister and whatever. And the two ladies had clearly seen it. And the guy over here had been like, seen it like a million times.2 (46m 57s):And they were like talking to each other about like, oh, it's not that, you know, th this, the Hamilton's not that strong. And this is, and I said to me, I said to myself, and then I said to them, I said, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Can you do that? Let me just tell you something. Our fat ass is sitting over here. These people are throwing chairs around on stage also while singing and while remembering Lear rap lyrics, like shut up. Yeah. Shut up. Oh, by the way. So what's, how are you your rewatch of drag race? Okay. Much better. So, so I think at the time I, I obviously was youngers.2 (47m 38s):What were unseasoned? What 13, 18. I don't know. I think it's 13, which I'm crazy. So at the time, when I first watched the first season, whatever year that was in, I did not have any appreciation for healing of any kind. And I also didn't. I was so entrenched in my little world in Los Angeles that like I thought I saw drag race as a gag. Right. It was all a gag. A RuPaul was a gag. I didn't take it seriously. I was like super at 20 in my late twenties, early thirties. And it's really good. And it's also really, I'm not, so, yeah.2 (48m 18s):Right. I'm not so interested in the drama. Right. I'm interested in the artistry of the whole thing and how they create the costumes and the characters. And this time watching it, I'm like, oh, these people are brilliant. They're, they're brave and brilliant humans that are doing a really brave thing come that has come out of the need to sort of the, the revolutionary act of not wanting to shrink. Right. Of like gonna kill themselves if they don't do this. And I have to say, like, I only rewatched the first half of the first season, because then I got hooked into this Brazilian crime drama, which is a documentary about fucking crazy shit in Brazil.2 (49m 3s):Brazil is a terrible, I could never live in Brazil, but anyway, so, so drag race. Now I have such a new found respect for the performers. And also as, as a revolutionary drag, as a revolutionary act of self-preservation yes, yes. Agreed. And if you want to skip to the good stuff you could skip to season five, season five has, I'm sending myself a cast, quite a cast. And, and as time goes on, not only does the show get better because it has a bigger budget, but also Ru Paul is honing in on what he's, it's actually very, it reminded me a lot of your understanding of the meaning of our podcast as time has gone by.2 (49m 51s):And you've been saying for a long time, it's a service we're doing and it's offering healing to people. I think we're Paul figure that out, you know, throughout the course of, and he's, he leans much more heavily into people because almost everybody who is on there has been traumatized, abused, kicked out of their house. All the shit. Parents don't know that they're on drag race. Parents don't know that they do drag P they think it's. Yeah. So I think you'll really like that aspect of it. If you, you know, if you, if you like it enough to stick with it. And I also just think that I, there it is impossible. This is the conundrum of life.2 (50m 32s):It's impossible to not be a self-centered asshole when you're in your twenties and thirties or late thirties. Right. Right. Right. And so I look back at some of the shit I did and said, and thought about other people and their cultures and their, and I thought, oh my God, how dare I? I was, I, I was not, look, I'm not saying an awful person, but really the audacity of youth to be like, yeah, you're not cool. Or you, you, this doesn't benefit me in any way. So I'm not going to pay it any mind. In fact, I'm going to shit talk. It just, I mean, it's summed up with my John C. Riley story of never having seen Punchdrunk glove and talking shit about it to the star or no, not punch drunk, love to the star of boogie nights, the audacity of, of, of, of my youth and trauma and whatever to lie.2 (51m 29s):So blatantly and do it and lie about a mean thing. What are you, my take on that story has always been, you felt so less than yeah. With him. Yeah. That you, that you, which is not typical for you, that you, that you found a way to make him feel less than you. Oh yeah. It's not typical, but I do it. I do it with my husband all the time, which is like, if I'm, I'm now going through, I'm doing all this deep, deep trauma work in therapy and it's, and I'm also gonna start, I'm going to do an MDM age journey on it. So, so, but I'm doing all this stuff is coming up.2 (52m 10s):And I w when I am it's, so you've said it I've said it hurt people, hurt people, but it's very more specific than that. What happens to me is I sense it. I say the same thing when my husband hurts my feelings and it's really not my husband, it's, my feelings are hurt because I'm going through trauma, we're in a pandemic. And we live in a S in an end-stage capitalism. Like that's what's going on, but my husband is the trigger. And I will literally say things like I'm going to leave and not come back. And it is because I want to leave my trauma. I want to leave this shit show and go somewhere where I don't have to look at my trauma.2 (52m 52s):And I mean, that's exactly what I want to do. And so we have to, but that's what I do with John C. Riley. It's like, I, I'm not enough. I hate myself. And so I'm wanting to destroy you the way I feel destroyed. Literally. Yeah. It, it comes up so fucked up. I saw on the media about watching Tinder swindler.2 (53m 34s):Did you watch it? Yes. Okay. What it comes down to ladies and gentlemen is a study in why people hate women. It's really sad. It's like, really? But, you know, he targets women who are wanting love. Is this a documentary or a fictional documentary? Okay. And there might be a reenactments, but it's a documentary about eight, eight guy who Swindells women. But what you, what I was left with was okay. He picks on women who want love, who also want a man who is not broke and not, they don't have to pay his phone bill.2 (54m 16s):Right. Cause that's the experience of a lot of us. So when he, of course, when he, this swindler presents himself as, as rich as hell, that doesn't hurt. But then what you get is the backlash of people saying, well, that bitch was a gold Digger. She deserved to be swindled. So they got a huge backlash for being victims of this guy. It's horrific because if you weren't a gold Digger, then you wouldn't. So it comes down to, if you want to look at it as I couldn't have pure fun with it, because it was at the expense of women looking for love, and then being blamed as the victim, as a gold Dick. It's like, it's like sexism on task plus sexism on top of sexism.2 (54m 57s):And I though it didn't raise me. Maybe I'm not going to watch it. Not fun is what I'm saying. Maybe if it was a woman swindling, the men, I think that would have been a better, more, anti-Trump kind of a situation. But like what you're getting is a guy who's literally gaslighting women. And, and for, for, for, you know, I don't know, it's a five-hour situation. I want to watch a documentary called grinder finder, or they just follow guys having their random hookups. What I'm interested to know about that is people, I guess it's not just men, but people who pursue only the hookup on these apps is this satisfying.2 (55m 44s):I mean, is it like, yeah, I met this person. We had sex. I never saw them again. It was great. Or, or is there any bit of it? That's you know what I mean? Oh, I know what you mean. It doesn't work. Doesn't work. Does it feel good? I mean, what I'm led to believe about men, sexuality is this is ideal for them, you know, just a nameless, anonymous sex with no, I think it comes down to like what the intention is behind it. But like, I just, you know, whenever people talk about polyamory or, and this, this is different than just a hookup, I'm not comparing polyamory to just hook up culture.2 (56m 26s):But what I am saying is it a lifestyle that is different from mine that I don't understand whenever I think about engaging in behavior like that, whether it's having multiple partners or just had gone for the sex, what I end up with is depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation for myself. That's what I'm saying. Like, if you can do it without those things, I'm like, you go motherfuckers. But for me, I'm like, I don't see how this leads anywhere, but where I was at the age of 29, which was, yeah. And you know, then there's an argument to be made for, like, if you are in your twenties, you were going to do this one way or the other, you know, you're going to have these unsatisfying heartbreaking relationships one way or the other, maybe the advantage of doing it through these apps is that you have a little bit more data.2 (57m 16s):I mean, in the olden days, if you would just meet somebody and it was a one night stand and all you had was their Pedro, a number like that. That's all you had. That's all the information you had to go on this way. You can, which I've heard. It turns into a, a bad thing too. Like when people start stocking and they can't stop themselves from cyber-stalking like their one night stand their hookup. It's a double-edged sword. That would be me. I would be in jail if it were, if it were now I would be in jail for cyber-stalking like the only reason I'm not in jail for cyber-stalking is because we didn't have that because you were born in 1975.2 (57m 57s):Yeah. But I told you about the phone calls I made, right? No. Oh yes. When you called January. I think when the 85 times my boss was like, what? So that's probably a crime that's talking. So I am grateful that my, my anti-depressant has killed my sex drive in some ways. I'm also grateful to be married in some ways, like, look, do I miss the excitement of the chase of the, the, the, that, that butterflies in the stomach. I miss that, but I have to be honest, like the data for me, the evidence shows it never went in the right direction.2 (58m 37s):Like, no. And when you, and when your mind is all so consumed, and it is a nice feeling in a way, but when your mind is all so consumed by falling in love, everything else falls apart, you know what I mean? Like you stop pursuing your career, you stop pursuing like your other life goals. They had any kind of self care goes right out the window for me. And, you know, I'm and I did I ever tell you the story about the famous person who shall remain nameless? That I was in a, met in a, in a group setting that the trellis climbing incident. Okay. Okay. This is, this is fantastic. They needed to make a true crime about this. There's a woman who is who I'm not friends with in any way, but met, randomly and said we were, I was her, this is in I in 2000.2 (59m 23s):And like, I dunno, I dunno. I met her in Chicago and this was like, once I started to get better in my brain about that mental health stuff. We were, I was talking about how I was so dysfunctional in my relationships with men and she's like, oh, you think you're just functional? And this is a gorgeous, stunning lady that you're like, no problem. She's got no problem. She's like, you think that's just functional? I was like, oh God. Oh God. And she said, I was married before. And two, this guy who was a player and I was like, okay. And she's like, and I, I just was obsessed with him. And I knew, I knew that he was cheating and he admitted it.2 (1h 0m 4s):And so then he said he was gonna stop. And then I got pregnant. She says, and I got pregnant. And I had this feeling. He was still cheating, but he kept saying he wasn't right. So she's pregnant. And she, I don't know how many months pregnant. And she's like, he just kept, I just had that, this crazy feeling. And of course it was like, you know, he would tell me I was crazy. It was a whole gaslighting situation. But anyway, so she, in the middle of the night, he was on a business trip and in the middle of the night, she's like, I fucking have to know. I ha she's pregnant. I have to know she goes to his office. Cause that's where he kept it somewhere else in, in the city, not in their home. He, she knew that there was going to be information in the office, but she couldn't get it.2 (1h 0m 48s):Right. She fucking climbs a trellis, pregnant, a trellis, like a trellis, pregnant endangering her life, her baby's life, a criminal, whatever trespassing, even though some husband climbs breaks into his office with like punches, like puts a, a towel around her hand, breaks it breaks office and go through stuff. He's cheating. She finds all kinds of data on his. And she thought to herself, that's when I, she said, that's when I hit bought my bottle and she's sitting there like kind of bloodied.2 (1h 1m 28s):Cause it didn't work all the way to cover her hand bloodied with the evidence she was. Right. Of course. And I think, remind it reminded me of something that an ex of mine had said, when I went, go snooping through his phone, Dave, who then died, who that's, you know, my, my ex and I was snooping through it. It wasn't even really an ex, but he is stupid snooping through his phone. And he goes, look, if you need to Snoop, you're going to find something you don't want to see if you, if that instinct in you, is there. Yeah, it was right. He was absolutely right. I found all kinds of stuff that I didn't want to didn't want to say.2 (1h 2m 10s):So these are these stories that I'm like, oh my God, it doesn't matter what you look like. It doesn't matter. And my heart breaks for that Chloe Kardashians and her fucking, except at the same time, I'm like, okay, but you keep picking these guys. You keep picking these people who absolutely will 1000%, never, never, never not cheat on you. What are you going to do differently? And her answer so far is I'm going to get more plastic surgery. I'm going to diet more. I'm going to exercise. I mean, she has a whole show called revenge body. That is disgusting. That your whole reason for making your body into a certain way is to get revenge on somebody.2 (1h 2m 55s):Like, what are we doing? It's gone all the way left. You want to know even more fucking left. I met someone who was a fucking contestant on that show or like, cool, really? Oh, I actually, I didn't realize it was a shit contest show. They had like a, and she was so fucking crazy. I I've never met a crazier human being in my life. Like wow, never met a crazier human being in my life. And I have treated all levels of crazy. She was the craziest. But anyway, so yeah, you're right. It is the lengths weak, like using our bodies as a weapon, using our bodies, hurting our bodies. It is. And it's one of those things where even if we sat down, you know, Chloe, you, if you ever listened to the show, you're welcome to come on.2 (1h 3m 41s):But even if we sat down and said, all the things you will, people do not change until they are a, in enough pain to change or be angry enough to change. It has to come from within. So like, I'm not sure any amount of intervention with these people. And that's what this woman said. And I know it to be true for me until my dad died. And I was stripped of all resources. Was I able to see that my previous behavior in relationships, especially with men was toxic and killing me and not nice to them either. But it took, it took that it took everything being stripped from me too, to even make any kind of small change.2 (1h 4m 26s):So like, I'm not sure it's so it's such a hard job to try to help someone change because, because they have to do it on the, and so encoded. And because for me, I had, I had to walk such a distance to figure out that the problem was me. I had to try, I had to exhaust every other possibility of who else I could blame. I had to chalk my behavior up to absolutely anything, but what it was, which is I'm recapitulating the same situation that I was literally in coded to, to, to look for B because I, you know, had a father who rejected me, like, yeah.2 (1h 5m 13s):And, and, and, and, and it surprised, I think her father rejected, there's all this stuff about who is her father. And if it's, yeah. I mean, magic people thinking in a funny way that a, an accused double murderer, who is people, you know, who has a plethora of problems and his own trauma is your fucking unknown father. Fuck, that's his claim to fame. It's not right. So here's what I wish. I wish that we all find that in ourselves, that that point without so much pain, but it usually comes with pain to say, oh shit, I don't want to climb any more trellises.2 (1h 5m 55s):I just don't want to risk my life. And my unborn child's life or whatever was risk, whatever the risk is to, to try to, to get this love or this, what I think is going to be the fix for my internal whole, you know, like, I, I wish for us that we would do it in a way we could find that sort of, we could make the realization without having to go through so much heartache, but maybe it takes what it fucking takes. And it takes what it takes. I wish it was different, but a, because somebody could tell you all of these things, a future you could come to, to yourself at 20 and tell you these things.2 (1h 6m 38s):And you might still not believe them because you have to, you know, a lot of experiences you just have to have and told me, stop doing this to yourself. Older women that I was friends with were like, this guy doesn't love you. Like you, like, this is not what you think it is. I didn't get, I didn't pay him any mind. Yeah. Because it's the same thing. Like with theater school, like, yeah. But I'm the exception for me. It's different. You, that's fine for you to say for other people, but for me, it's different. Yeah. If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends.2 (1h 7m 23s):I survived. Theater school is an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez, and Gina plegia are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound next by Gina for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.

Sarte sjæle bør have en pude – eller en god ven – klar på sidelinjen under filmen 'Fresh', der lige nu kan ses på Disney+. For hvad der på overfladen ligner en sød romcom med to af tidens mest interessante stjerner – Sebastian Stan ('Pam & Tommy', 'Avengers') og Daisy Edgar-Jones ('Normal People') – udvikler sig pludselig til lidt af et syret, sorthumoristisk mareridt, der konstant overrasker. Filmredaktør Jacob Ludvigsen og filmskribent Lise Ulrich diskuterer, hvad der uden sammenligning er ugens mest opsigtsvækkende nye streamingtitel. Inden da skal det dog handle om den stort anlagte HBO Max-serie 'Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty', der fortæller historien om basketholdet Lakers vej til toppen. John C. Riley og Adrien Brody fører an i serien, der er både instrueret og produceret af 'The Big Short's Adam McKay – men har vi at gøre med en af årets helt store serie-slamdunks eller misser holdet nettet? Lyt med!

Don't forget to rouge your knees and roll your stockings down as you indulge in a sultry espresso Negroni for the glitz and glam musical spectacle that is Chicago. We're giving OUR rendition of the Cell Block Tango as we discuss this Best Picture winner, the musical genre, the real life inspiration behind this story, and of course, the six merry murderesses of the Cook County Jail. Starring Renée Zellweger, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Richard Gere, Queen Latifah, and John C. Riley. Cheers! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Interview: We talk to Dave Dastmalchian and John Hoogenakker about a special moment with F. Murray Abraham, finding friendship in a cutthroat environment, having substance abuse and authority issues, mind-f***ery, the cloistered nature of conservatories, using skills gained at TTS on set, taking an eclectic approach to acting, the tricky dance of teaching an art form, PR Casting, Does a Tiger Wear a Necktie, when William Burroughs discovered a copy of the Fledgling Press, a zine which Dave created.FULL TRANSCRIPT:Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:08):I'm Jen Bosworth Ramirez.Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:10):and I'm Gina Pulice.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:11):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:15):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:20):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:29):So they concocted this plan to make A shelf in our library, like right above the door frame, that goes all the way around the room. So I am not kidding you. So, soJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:00:49):Pictures, pictures, put them on the website. Okay.Dave Dastmalchian (00:00:53):Here's the deal though? My son, my, my middle child is so smart. He has never helped us with these type of projects before, because he doesn't really like, he traditionally hasn't really liked working with his hands, but this time he wanted to, it was really his idea. He wanted to do it. And he's such a math brain that he insisted on doing heavy. Pre-planning like he made us model, not a, he's calling it a model. It's not really a model. he's like got a piece of paper. He drew plans for it. He did all kinds of measurements. He used. Yeah, it was great. And he goes, listen, if we don't plan it out like this, then we get halfway through and we run into a snag and then we stop working on it, which is exactly what the oldest one. And I have done on a number of projects, including building a full-sized Playhouse on our back -Yes ma'am yes. Ma'am. I spent thousands of dollars on wood and nails and power tools so that we could have this joint project of building a Playhouse. And we didn't think it through one single bit. We, we found some plans on the internet and we went through and we made it. I got, we got all the way to the roof and the roof is what did us in? We couldn't, we couldn't get up high enough on the thing. We didn't have a high enough ladder and it's not in a great enough position. We couldn't put the roof on it, sat there for a year. And then it was time for the bar mitzvah, which we were having the party at our house. So we had to, and we had to take the whole thing down and we never finished it. So the other one goes, listen, we're I don't want to do that. I don't want to go through all this work and give it up. So he planned it and boy did he plan it with an inch of his life and it's going up and it's looking great. And I will send you picturesJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:02:44):That is done. Oh my gosh. Merry Christmas. [inaudible] freaking Christmas. That's fantastic.Dave Dastmalchian (00:02:51):I have one other cute little story to tell you.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:02:55):I took, well, I told her, um, I told C's, um, hummus story is Sasha and Chrissy and Tilly. Oh. Saw them from afar. Um, we saw them outside. Uh, they're amazing. And they laughed so hard. It was. Yeah. So it's for people that don't know. I mean, we've probably said, I'd probably made you tell it like four times, but you, but my version, this is how I tell it is that, um, your daughter says, mom, what, what kind of stuff do they have to eat in prison? Do they have like bad food? And you're like, yeah, it's probably not that great. She goes like hummus? They cracked up anyway.Dave Dastmalchian (00:03:37):She's she's hilarious. So, um, I was sick yesterday and she came home from the bus. Oh, earlier in the day she had -I was taking her to school and this little girl had these really cute boots on these little there's some, some, Ugg, type boots. She's like, Oh, I love those boots. And I S and she had said something to me about it before. And I said, yeah, you know, I looked for those, but I couldn't, I don't see where they are. I, I, you know, I can't, I can't find any of the information for it. So she comes home yesterday. Oh, this is so sweet. She brings me a plate with sliced up bananas, um, something else, and the little container of yogurt that she got in her lunch that she brought home. Cause this is kind of sugary yogurt that I never buy for her Trix yogurt. And she covered it in saran wrap. And she wrote me a note. I get, well, note, and it's a picture of the two of us. And it said, mom, get, well soon. I love you. And you, and it says at the bottom turnover, turnover, they have such, she goes, I got the information about the boots!Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:04:53):I'm telling you. She's genius.Dave Dastmalchian (00:04:56):She writes, You can get them at col that's Kohl's or you could get them at Kohl's or, um, uh, TRG I T get at targetJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:05:12):She's genius.Dave Dastmalchian (00:05:14):She followed up this morning. She goes, so did you, did you check out Kohl'sSpeaker 4 (00:05:31):[inaudible]?Dave Dastmalchian (00:05:38):Hm. We've moved a lot. I mean, not as much as you, but we've moved a lot in the time that we've been together. 20 whatever years we probably moved, I don't know, 15 times and, or maybe less than that, but, uh, between 10 and 15 times. And we, one of the things that we lug around from place to place is a lot of mementos. A box of mementos turned into two boxes, turned into two boxes each. Now we have kids, they have their boxes. So we're at the point where not only because of this for other reasons, but we have to store all the mementos in a storage facility. This is the dumbest possible thing. I mean, it also has furniture from, Oh, it has furniture. But like, anyway, we store boxes in boxes. Probably those plastic tubs, you know, the big plastic tubs would probably have like six plastic tubs that are of mementos.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:06:40):Wow.Dave Dastmalchian (00:06:41):Aaron has, you know, the, the little plaque he got when he won a tennis tournament in eighth grade is it's like a lot of things. Okay. I've gotten better at paring things down. But then when you have kids, you feel like you shouldn't throw anything away because they're the ones who are going to be going through your stuff one day and who are going to be mad. If you didn't save all of their stuff. Now, of course you cannot save all of their stuff, but like, what's your stance on mementos? What do you keep? What do you toss? What's -do you feel guilty about it, et cetera?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:07:20):It's a great, that's a great topic. I, um, feel mixed. We have, so, yes, we've moved so much and we too have mementos. Um, there's the Marie Kondo, you know, that if it doesn't spark joy, but I don't really believe that. Um, I think people should, uh, do what they want to do for the most part. I don't subscribe to a minimalist thing, but I definitely feel like for everything you keep, you should throw out one thing. So, so, so that goes with clothes that goes, and it is really hard. Now, mementos are different because they have sentimental, they have sentimental value, but I'm remembering having to go through, uh, both dead parents' stuff. And most of it is garbage. Like most of them, most of it is like a lighter that my dad had that was engraved with someone's initials. That weren't his, why he probably stole it from somebody. But, um, but I was like, what, what, what? No. And it was a tremendous amount of emotional work to go through this stuff. And, um, yeah, I say get rid of, most of it. I get rid of most of it.Dave Dastmalchian (00:08:42):I mean, I think what it's about is, cause what, what I did with my dad is so when he died, I was right before I got married and he, so he didn't know that I got married or about any of my kids. So I think I really held onto stuff for kind of a long time, because it just felt like I didn't have time to grieve or process or whatever it is. So there are certain things that I, you know, you have your stages, like things you get rid of, like when Aaron's dad died, he came home wearing all of his father's clothes. He had his, and they were all too big pants and his shoes, well, that stuff has started to, it's been about a year, that stuff is starting to go away. So I remember the phases of getting rid of stuff. And it is something about like, you hold onto the, the stuff is like a placeholder for you doing your grieving. So it's like the more you do the work of going through the grieving that's then you, then you feel okay to get rid of the stuff. And the thing about what the kids is, I know something that they don't know, which is that it feels so precious to them now is not going to feel so precious to them. For example, when they go to college or move out and I say, we need to go through this stuff. Now we need to go through and figure out, you know, what you want. And I'm sure that they're going to want to get rid of a lot of stuff, but they also want to keep like, both boys did TaeKwonDo and went through their black belt. And the trophy for a black belt is like, as tall as a person, that's like five feet tall. Those are in storage. We went to storage to get out the Christmas stuff. And my oldest son, he picks up, he goes, this thing was really like a piece of junk. Like it's, you know, cause trophies are just made of plastic cheap metal. Yeah. So I, that was like, okay, you're going to want to get rid of this. That's a good thing. But with the smaller things, like really precious sentimental notes, I feel like keeping, but listen, not every kid or not, every person writes a card that's worth keeping, I'm sorry to say, butJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:10:58):Right. And what you don't and what, and I think what you're doing is by getting rid of the sub stuff is what you're actually doing is making your kids job easier when we all croak. So if you think about it that way, like I act, but they should be allowed maybe one tub each.Dave Dastmalchian (00:11:18):Right. And we shouldn't have to worry when it gets no, no, well, they don't, they only have one tub, but then they have things like the trophies or the other things that they don't want to get rid of. Yeah. I'm feeling like what we should do is it is a annual or at least every few years going through making sure this is still so, because it, it was only recently that the older two wanted to get rid of their schoolwork from kindergarten. Wow. Yeah. They really wanted to. And that's the other thing is like, if it is serving some emotional need, I cut it off. I don't want to cut off, but I also don't want to, I know how it is with the whole storage facility. We got a storage facility that's bigger than what we need. We're just going to fill it up like a goldfish, eating too much and filling up its bowlJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:12:05):And then their stomach explodes. Uh, but I was going to say something that you might do too, is if you're into any kind of ritual is w miles will burn. Um, we will burn stuff in a, in a, like a goodbye stuff. Like, um, if it's sentimental letters and stuff, now it, you know, there's not burning a kindergarten paper on, you know, aardvark, but, but if there's anything have some kind of ritual saying goodbye situation. Um, my sister and I, Oh my gosh. When we went to through the attic, there was a, like a 10 year period where everyone died. Right. And so we had 10 people's ashes. I'm not kidding you. My mother, my father, both three grandparents migrating at Ruth. It was crazy. So we didn't know what to do with all these ashes. We just dumped them in the garden. We are like, and we had a parade of ashes. We just had a ritual. We were like, goodbye, goodbye, aunt, Ruth goodbye. Then they all got mixed together, but we literally headed those cremations of like, not, it was like nine people, but I was like, so you don't want, you don't want stuff to accumulate that, that P that the kiddos are going to have to just go through and be like, I mean, the ashes were fine, but there was so much stuff that I was like, Oh my God, like pictures of people that you cannot name, those got to go. Yeah.Dave Dastmalchian (00:13:31):Right. What about though? Have you ever thrown something away? And then been like, Oh, I wish I hadn't got it.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:13:39):But you know what? They were, it was bigger items, actually. Wasn't sentimental stuff. It was like, my mom had this, a couple of chairs and furniture. It was more big stuff. And it doesn't sound like you have tons of big stuff. Um, it sounds like it's more sentimental stuff. Um, but I, I mostly felt like that chair, I should have hold it. It held onto the chair and some of her of dishes and stuff like that. But at the time I was like, no, it's gotta go. It's gotta go. Um, so the other thing that I would say is don't, um, for people is like, don't make any decisions when you're in a heightened, emotional state, because you will save weird and you will throw out stuff that you will. So like, it's good that you go through it once a year. Not in a crisis, not in a, not, you know, after a huge event, but at like when you like a regular checkup to the storage place,Dave Dastmalchian (00:14:36):I think too, I just had this thought what I should do, especially with papers, take pictures, just take pictures of papers. I can, I can even make a book for each of the kids. Like here is five images of all the crap you wanted me to save that I didn't, but I took a picture of it.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:14:58):Brilliant. You just thought of that. Brilliant. Yeah. You're a Marie Kondo in your own, right?Dave Dastmalchian (00:15:04):Aye. Aye. Listen, pursuant to our conversation about my home decor. I'm like, let's get rid of it. Let's get rid of it all. Like I have a China cabinet. I mean, come on. I, I, I mean, I have China. I have, I have tried, but I don't need to, it doesn't need to be displayed. Like, it's my prize possession. You know what I mean? It can just go to shelf.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:15:22):I guess that, that leads me to the question for you is, and it goes back to our other conversation, which is, um, do you think you just adopted that because it's what you thought you should do.Dave Dastmalchian (00:15:33):It's 100% that, because I, yeah, I, I learned at an early age, like I remember being on the younger side and, uh, going through something, I forget what it was, birthday, old birthday cards and throwing them away. And my mom being like, you're getting rid of them. You know, she keeps everything. She keeps her, yes, she keeps everything. But I, uh, my middle child is my, uh, icon in this way. At summer camp, you send cards, you know, you're in current and they like to receive mail. So I sent a lot of cards and he received a lot of cards. He comes home from camp. This is not this past summer. But the summary for her, I said, did you get all the cards I sent you? He said, yes, I did. And they were so great. And on my last day of camp, I looked through all the letters that you and Gran and I gave him a kiss through with the trash. And when he said it, I, I had this Pang of like, Oh, you throw them in the trash. But of course it served its purpose. The purpose was to give him something to remember us by while he was at camp it, then it was over. Then he was going to come home and be with us. He didn't need to hold onto it.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:16:53):It's not sentimental that way. No. What about clothing? Do you hold onto clothing?Dave Dastmalchian (00:16:58):No, no. I get rid of, I mean, I have my, I have my, I kept my wedding dress and I CA I kept like a few of the kids. Very first ones. These remember the onesies that you made, that you, you, we made at your house. I have the, I have not all of them, but I have some of those, but yeah, I don't get sentimental about clothing. Aaron does. Aaron has his high school, varsity jacket and his first pair of scrubs and his first doctor coat and all this kind of stuff. Oh, wow.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:17:30):Go through your clothing. And you're not a shopper. You don't like to shop for clothes.Dave Dastmalchian (00:17:36):Well, I like to have clothes. I just don't like to shop for them. Yeah, no, I go through, I, yeah, I'll have, did I forget if you were here, you saw my closet. We have, I've never seen your closet. It's technically a walk-in, but not really. It was a very small class. I have always had a very small closet. I've never, I know that if I had a huge closet, I would just collect a bunch of clothes. So it's kind of an and shoe. So it's kind of a good thing that I don't know. That's one thing we sort of keep under control. We, I throw out something maybe like once every week or once every two weeks I get rid of stuff. Really? It's the other stuff. It's the stuff that I feel like I'm supposed to have because I have kids or I'm supposed to have, because, because really a lot of the other people in my life are very sentimental errands. Very sentimental has. My mother is very sentimental. My kids are very sentimental. So I feel like I have to keep all this stuff for them. But I really don't.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:18:31):That was a China cabinet. Was that a purchase that you thought I should have this because I'm an adultDave Dastmalchian (00:18:36):Or did you inherit it? No, we were moving here from the city and we were just both like, well, we need a dining set. And we went to the furniture store was the first time I went to like a real furniture store and they had a matching dining table and chairs with the, with a China cabinet and a, uh, something else. We've got three big pieces. It's all crappy furniture. It was a waste. It was expensive. And it was a waste of money because all furniture that's made past bef you know, since 1950 is crappy furniture, um, dining table. Well, it's big, but it's, it's really like wobbly. It's crappy. It's crappy. So I, I think I'm going to, maybe after the holidays, get rid of the China cabinet, whole King thing. Like it doesn't give me any joy to look at it. It doesn't give, it's just like, here's where we put all the crap that we use on Thanksgiving.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:19:33):Right? It's more of a storage. It's not a showcase for anything special. What you need to do is get so many snow Globes that then you've got you put those in there, maybe, but that's a huge, you don't really need maybe a different kind of case for the snow Globes.Dave Dastmalchian (00:19:48):Something like that would give me joy, some little bauble, something like that. It's just plates and vases and, and somebody who is in my family has started a collection of something for me that I don't care for. But it's like, you know how it is, the person really wants to collect something for you. And they pick something. They, they have something that they collect and then they go, well, would you like a different version of this thing? I collect it. And you know, and I remember saying once, like, Oh, that's pretty. And next thing I know I've got my, what she considers to be my version of her thing. This is not my mother. I have to feel like I have to say this because this is not my mother. And it's, it's stuff that I feel that I have to make sure is out for when this person comes to my house.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:20:43):Understood, understood. I don't, you know, I think everyone like dead in my family. So I, I, I get free from some of that, like, but I do. There's a part of me that goes, Oh, someone is thinking about you that's collecting something for you. It just, maybe they would ask them if they could collect. You know, I don't knowDave Dastmalchian (00:21:05):To me that the collecting impulse, I don't relate to it. I mean, with the exception of maybe that I like these pretty snow gloves, I I'm not, I don't collect anything. And my mother collects everything. She does. She does. She collects, she has a China pattern. She does a crystal pattern. She collects, um, she's a big reader. So she collects books. She, yeah,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:21:35):I remember I remember the house on Wayne, right? And it was a duplex. It was a two floor. She had a lot of nice stuff. She had a lot of nice stuff.Dave Dastmalchian (00:21:44):It is, it's all very nice, but it's, it's stuff. It's a lot of stuff. And I'm just finding that. I'm not as into stuff. As I thought I was,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:21:53):Well, I think the pandemic has done that to people too. It has increased for me. Anyway. It has increased my awareness that like, all this stuff is not going to save us from certain things.Dave Dastmalchian (00:22:06):Not from nothing. It's not going to save you from anything and you have to clean it and you have to store it and you have to move it. And you have to, you feel, for some reason you have to replace it. If it gets broken, like it's just a yoke, it's a yoke. And Aaron and I fantasize. When the kids leave, we're going to get a studio apartment. We're going to have no possessions. And we're going to just do whatever we want. That doesn't have anything to do with buying, maintaining, or storing stuff of anything.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:22:38):That's brilliant. I think that is a great plan. D my only caveat is please do it in California. That's all I have to say. Yes, yes.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:22:58):Today on I Survived theater school. We have the fancy friends, Dave Dastmalchian and John Hoogenakker. I call them fancy friends because that's what they are. They are fancy. They work. And they work all the time and they're delightful human beings literally think,Dave Dastmalchian (00:23:13):and they have fancy last name. I was making the episode art. I'm like, Oh, this is, of course these two have to have the longest, last name so that they really do. I've ever had. We'll just call him Dave. You guys have seen. Yeah. And you guys have seen them. I mean, not necessarily together, but, um, uh, Dave was his first film role was in, uh, the dark night. So he, I would love to have him back Sometime and ask about Heath ledger, because I bet that he's got a lot to tell about that anyway. So Dave has a, mostly a film career. He's also a screenwriter. He has written a few films that are excellent, including, um, Animals and, uh, All Creatures Here Below two excellent films. And John is a lot on television.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:24:07):Gotcha. Uh, he was on Jack Ryan as one of the big, big leads. And he, and they're in an outstanding film called Teacher together. So that's somethingDave Dastmalchian (00:24:18):Right. And the two of them wanted to do the interview together because they're such close friends and they shared a lot of memories. And it was interesting to have as it's our first duo. It was interesting to explore their friendship as a way that they both survived theater school. So please enjoy Dave, the small shin and John who can anchor.Dave Dastmalchian (00:24:40):You got to call her up again and ask her to do all right.Dave Dastmalchian (00:24:44):I'm going to make a note of that right now. Anyway. Congratulations, John and Dave, you survived theater school. No, not barely. You guys. I think you both had excellent theater school careers, but I'd like to hear it from you.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:25:06):Uh, w I'm so glad that you're our first duo that we've had on today. The fancy friends. And I wanted to know about your experience, like together as well as a part, but like my first question for you is, did you love each other right away?Dave Dastmalchian (00:25:22):I don't, I don't know. John, did youDave Dastmalchian (00:25:26):Well, for sure,Dave Dastmalchian (00:25:30):Gina the longest and by the way, so good to see you. It's only been 20 years like this. I mean, we've, we've messaged and emailed a lot, but Jesus, this is amazing. Oh my God. Uh, so I was roommates with Gina and we were very close and then I left school for a year. And so the school moves forward. Jen, you and Gita were in the same grade. You guys all moved forward. And when I came back, it was a whole new group of people to get to know. And John, um, was one of the first people that I knew when I got back. So I felt very out of place. And, um, it was hard to come into because it's such a competitive environment and it's such a, um, intense environment. And I was both competitive and intense. So to jump into the fire with a whole new group of people, to kind of, it's hard, cause you're posturing, you're sizing up, but at the same time, you're looking for connection.Dave Dastmalchian (00:26:27):You're looking for support and it's, it's such a conflict. And John, I'm not going to get emotional today. I swear to God, but it was like one of the first people that extended such, uh, a kind generous since he's got that, that, that inimitable,John Hoogenakker (00:26:46):I'm a cuddler.Dave Dastmalchian (00:26:47):sincerity, which is what makes him such a brilliant actor. But he had that like, look me in the eyes in class and like, Hey, he has a little bit of a draw. Like I'm really excited. You're here. And I want to get to know you and I hope we get to work together. And then we went and hung out at his apartment soon after that and maybe smoke something. This is recorded, sorry, John. And then we watched star Wars stuff together and that was our bond. So that's my version of this story.John Hoogenakker (00:27:16):Um, no, God, we, we had a lot of fun. I have old pictures of you and I, and Iyisha and, uh, snuggling ghanaba, um, you snuggling and which I'm going to send you guys. Um, but, uh, yeah, we, uh, jeez, I just remember, uh, I remember Dave's, um, it bullions from day one, his like drive in his, in his positive energy. And I think, um, that is the thing that ha that has, that has been such a, um, such a driving force in Dave's career, um, is that he just never stops. It comes down to energy and positivity, and he's constantly pumping that into the world. And I think Dave has known for many, many years that it, you know, that that kind of stuff comes back to you. Um, and I think I was drawn to that in Dave, uh, yeah, from the giddy-up, butGina Pulice (00:28:10):Also recognize somehow that he needed you to take on that stare you in the eye and tell him you want to get to know him vibe. Did you know that he felt overwhelmed coming back?John Hoogenakker (00:28:23):Uh, I D I think from my perspective, the thing that drew Dave and I, to one another was a sense that, you know, in the theater school at the time that we were all there was such a, um, there was so, uh, it was a lot of mind fuckery going on. And there was a lot of, um, I think a lot of us in the acting track, especially I know this was the case throughout the school wanted, um, positive reinforcement from teachers. And sometimes I think my perspective was that people were manufacturing emotions and things to achieve that positive reinforcement. And Dave, uh, just seemed to be Dave to me, which I really, really, uh, enjoyed and appreciated. And, um, yeah. And so I think that was, uh, that was, um, it was, it was Dave's, um, his, his sort of genuine vibe that I wasJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:29:20):Both of you when I've run into you. I mean, you know, I don't, I live in California now, but I've seen you like at PR and Dave ed ran into you, one set of Starbucks in Chicago, the genuineness is unbelievable. So I, I think you're both fancy and I'm sort of sorry, starstruck, I, but when I, but there is sort of, both of you have this sort of face to face, like, look you in the eye, I'm going to have an actual conversation with you. And I think that makes you not only great, great actors, but what's more important to me is great human beings. And I, um, I don't know. I'm just so glad you guys found each other and that you're friends. It's like, no, it's not. That's how I feel. Yeah. That's how I feelDave Dastmalchian (00:30:06):The work and outside of our mutual, passionate love for the theater acting film, um, storytelling, character creation, cinema history, literature, like John. And I did kick it off immediately with a lot of, of, um, you know, kindred kind of passions for things which we all shared because we all were in that, that, that, that vortex. Um, and obviously we were drawn there because we had a passion for this stuff, but, um, you know, I've been through, uh, the ringer in my life outside of my acting career as well. And, and, and John was always one of the first people to show up and be there for me when I needed someone as well, which was you, you're not taught that in the, again, this is about surviving the theater school you're taught, um, that you're in the ensemble family mode during rehearsal. And it felt like kind of, um, during a production, but then it was right back to, you know, this really intensely bizarre, like John there's no better, I guess, adverb than mind fuckery of, um, and, and it was, it was, um, I'm very grateful, um, and, uh, many great, true friendships came out of that time because when you go through something that intense and that trying, but we, um, we, we, I would love to tell a quick story if I can, because we were kind of, we, weren't kind of, we were absolutely ups. We were in trouble a lot, um, because it's no mystery that I had a pretty intense substance abuse problem in college. And John had a pretty serious attitude problem in college. And, uh, neither of us dealt well with authority, although we loved being directed, which has always been a paradox with us. Like we love great directors that get in and like help guide us and shape things. But at the same time, we are the first people to, you know, get our backs up sometimes. And I, um, and I remember John and I were so frustrated that some of the people like he, he, there was this, this feeling of like posturing or presentation that always felt in authentic to us. And we wanted, you know, Chicago, we want to rub real dirt on our faces and smashed glass, and we're going to get in there. And, and we were doing a scene together from, um, uh, Glen Gary, Glen Ross for, um, second year, uh, scene study work with Joe [inaudible]. And it was so intense. It was the Moss era now seen at the Chinese restaurant. John is just needling into me to like, you're gonna, you're gonna get in on this heist, or I'm going to ruin your life. And we loved, like, we got into that so much. It was all space work. And we're in generally John and I were in, I was either in rave clothes or John was in some tide by Bob Marley thing. And, um, and so we had to speak special guests coming to the theater school who was going to do a scene study, uh, workshop. And it was F Murray Abraham. And, um, I'll never forget. We were all so excited, big fans. We go, they did it at a separate location on campus.John Hoogenakker (00:33:07):And it was where it was history of dramatic lit I think,Dave Dastmalchian (00:33:12):where nobody cheated. And he, um, he Through the fees that he was working on so quickly, and he was getting frustrated, like stop with the, stop with the presentation, like w Let's work these.John Hoogenakker (00:33:28):And he was also, he was also like not giving, like he would give a really incisive note and then would be like, all right, now, fuck off and do better in life!Dave Dastmalchian (00:33:38):He didn't want over preparation. He wanted this to be like a malleable Play-Doh Eve kind of moment where we could, so we were not part of that event, John and I were just sitting in the back row, probably like, just like, Whoa, this is so cool, dude. Like "that's F Murray Abraham!"]. And he looked to the crowd. He's like, is that all you got? Cause they had prepared. I don't remember four or five scenes.John Hoogenakker (00:34:01):Yeah. It was like, it looks like, well, it was like two from each classroom. And, and then we had like a break and the teachers were kind of looking around at each other, like, well, that's all I had. And that's all I got Dave, you went toDave Dastmalchian (00:34:15):Slowik Turned to me and John and slowok. goes, "You guys!"Speaker 7 (00:34:18):You guys, can we do it, John? Can we do it here? And John's like, yeah, let's do it.Dave Dastmalchian (00:34:25):What else is in costumes that they've got their props that John and I hopped up with? Uh, we, we may do, right. We got a bottle that we brought from someone else's seen some cups. Um, and we jumped up there and we did this. We did the scene where F Murray had recently done the piece or he was familiar enough with it that he could kind of jump in and, and do with this. But IDave Dastmalchian (00:34:45):Was so proud that day, even Though I knew what F ups we were. And even though I knew that I was, I knew that the work we were putting into and the discipline and the, and the, and the love we were putting into building these characters together and how much we loved playing off one another was, I knew in that moment, this is something I'm going to do with this guy for the rest of my life. And sure enough, we've gone on to do films, two films together, outside of school, we continue to collaborate. Um, I knew in that moment though, I was like, this guy I'm holding onto him for the rest of my life.John Hoogenakker (00:35:18):Dude, I wanna, I want to jump in because that was such, that was, first of all, it was, it was an amazing experience that we were like, we were like greyhounds, just ready to run. And, and we were also, we didn't realize that. So I'm going to, we talk about surviving the theater school. I don't know where to start, but more importantly, I don't know where I should stop. So you guys got to shut me up. Um, so, so, uh, I ran, I got that bottle from my roommate who drank Jamison, like all the time. So I ran across because we were in Seton hall, not Seton hall, but a sanctuary. And I got the bottle and I came back and Dave and I were getting ready and we do the, we do the scene and I knew, we knew that F Murray was going to just like, give us a note and dismiss us. So he gave us this note. And the w the one thing was I had been breaking up this paragraph that I was giving to Dave, you know, kind of feeling my way through it. And she kind of schmacting him and he was like, you know, this David Mamet gives you all of the direction you need with the punctuation, like Shakespeare. And you need to just drive through without taking a break, because that's going to give you more pay off at the end of the, at the end of the scene. And Dave and I looked at each other and we just started doing the scene before he could dismiss us. So we jumped right into it. And he had gone through all the people in our class that had been put forward. He had gone through upperclassmen, and that was the first group, Dave and I were the first two that had the audacity. Did you jump, take the note and jump back in? And we'll when we finished, he was like, that is preparation.Dave Dastmalchian (00:37:01):[inaudible] mother.Gina Pulice (00:37:05):I love that. I love that because what you're telling me in that is you each made a decision where our company is called Undeniable. So you made it, you made a decision to be undeniable. You made a decision to not let him, I'm sure everybody would. I, I'm not sure anybody else in that situation would have been willing to get up and go on and not let him deny you, not let him interrupt you. And you were like 18, 19 years old, which is like even more. So you, you both mentioned mind fuckery, which is a very evergreen theme on our podcast. And I would love to hear a little bit more about as you look back at this time in your life now, uh, and you imagine, cause some of our professors were probably the age then that we are now, what do you make of some of this? How have you reconciled some of what you now consider to be mind. Great. Did it feel like a mind fuckery then, or does it just look that way in the rear view,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:38:09):I'm just going to add a caveat, a quick caveat in that I teach at the theater school. So, um, I, and, and I, um, I'm trying to change the culture there a little bit. And so, um, I, I just always am really hyper aware that like we want, um, say whatever you want, that's what I want to say, whateverDave Dastmalchian (00:38:36):The Vincentian Brotehrs called in the legal team, man, they're coming, you're talking to John and Hey, don't worry. You go first because I know.John Hoogenakker (00:38:52):Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I have no idea what I'm going to say. We're on a journey of discovery. No. First of all, to your point, Jen, like I know John and I admire him greatly. I feel like there's gotta be five of him in the planet to achieve all this stuff that he's achieved. And the theater school of today bears little, if any, resemblance to the theater school that Dave and I and you guys, uh, attended. Um, and that said, I don't feel like, uh, the mind fuckery that I, um, felt I was, uh, that I received was the result of, uh, some jerk cadre of teachers sitting around in a circle and being like, who can we -? You know, who can we shit on today? I don't think that's how it was. I think the difference was there was a, a strong, a greater focus on academia. At that point. It was like just giving your life to an institution and, and a philosophy and an approach to doing theater that was, uh, at that time intensely cloistered. Um, didn't allow us to kind of step outside of the school. And we all, uh, to a certain extent kind of knew what we were signing up for. When we came on board, I had been in ROTC when I was in high school. Um, I had competed in debate, so I kind of dealt with a lot of that stuff at the beginning. And I just kind of felt like when I was at theater school, as Dave said, I had a real attitude problem because I was like, I had to take on a lot of debt to go to that school. Um, my family came together and did everything they could to help me, but I, I graduated with a lot of debt. Um, and I kind of felt like, you know what? This is, I'm paying you, but like, we get to have a conversation about this. I know you're the, I know you're the pro I know you've been doing this your entire adult life, but I have questions. And I feel like I'm due an answer and a considered answer. And you don't get to just shut me down because I asked a question and I'm 19 and you're 54. Um, cause I'm here taking on a lot of personal debt that I'm going to carry into my adult life. And you owe me answers. Um, th th that's just, let's just call that an opening, uh, Sally and Dave, you can share it for a little bit,Dave Dastmalchian (00:41:03):Like, you know, it was the perfect place for me to train. The culture was a utterly complicated, complex filled with nuance. Lots of gray area came from a tradition steeped in some really, uh, important and impressive theater movements that were more, um, militaristic and disciplinary and really, um, intense. I'll always be grateful for the tools that I picked up in the theater school to this day, saved me on an almost daily basis sets because the awareness it gave me of my body and my voice, and, you know, the depth of my psychology to be able to solve problems on the fly and repeat, you know, emotional recreations, um, was really important. I will say that there were conflicting philosophies and approaches, which is, I think very healthy. One of the things I loved was that nobody said this is the theater school way. It was like, here's the Joe Slowik way. Here's the Bella Itkin way. Here's the David Avcollie way, here's the Rick Murphy way. You go to these classes, you see what works for you. You see where you're doing the best work, and then you have to grow up quickly and you have to be prepared for this dog, eat dog world of the arts that you're going to be thrown into. Once you graduate here, there is no, you know, um, kind of kind or gentle or entirely psychologically easy way to prepare somebody for the, the, the, the meat grinder that is the show business. And so for all those reasons, I was incredibly grateful. I think there were, there was a lack of oversight when it came to, um, mental wellness with some of the faculty, and I'll always hold them responsible for the fact that they allowed sexual relationships between professors and students. I think it's entirely inappropriate for people in that kind of power, um, in there.John Hoogenakker (00:42:53):It's unbelievable when you look back on it.Dave Dastmalchian (00:42:57):When I think back on the fact that I knew there were teachers that we were meant to listen to and respect and regard and trust with our deepest parts of ourselves who were seduced and having sex with students that breaks my heart. And, and I, I would tell them that to their faces today, if I could see them, but I hope they'll watch. Um, and I also think that, uh, that there was some abusive behavior, um, that I'll never understand other than they were human beings who, um, you know, who were just people that, um, were, uh, that, that, that did, that did some things that may, I like to, I like to believe that they thought they might've been helping push us, or, but some of the things that were either said or done, I go, man, that was, I can remember sitting with Gina one time. And I mean, I I'm a pretty emotionally fragile guy, but I was like on the verge of, of tears, of, of something that had happened with one of the professors that we both really admired, but also we both really kind of feared and, um, and it was just like why, but, but in all, I'm grateful because I'm not one of those people I'll run into people from the theater school who are just carrying so much damage from that time. And I'm so grateful that when I look back on my time at the theater school, in all honesty, it's with a lot of positive, it is I really go, wow. That was an amazing experience. Yes. I have anger, frustration pains about certain things that happen that I can't believe, but I do feel, I feel like it really prepared me for the world in which I'm working now.John Hoogenakker (00:44:37):I totally agree. And I, I, you know, I look back on that time and I kind of feel like what, you know, when I look at things that had that I feel like have gone pear shaped and that I was a part of, I always try and think about what, what could I have done better? And for me, I look back on that period. And I think that I was not, uh, emotionally mature enough or perhaps mature enough in general, to take on board everything that I could have learned, uh, as an actor. And I'm talking about like, uh, technique wise in that program, because I was so emotionally just kind of bombarded with. So, so much of it is, is subjective in the, in the beginning. And we're going into a career where, um, you may go up against four other people in your type, or maybe not in your type who were phenomenal actors, and you may get that job, or you may not. Um, and there could be any number of reasons why you did or you didn't and kind of trying to prepare a child. And let's be honest, if you're not in the master's track, you're still a child, um, for the realities and the emotional rigors of, uh, of what could end up being a career in a full life, doing that stuff would be the greatest act of compassion that an educational center could impart to a child. And I feel like the theater school was like that wasn't even a thing. Um, and, um, you know, I mean, not understanding why, you know, everybody probably makes the case of like, Oh, gee whiz. I was so talented in my hometown. And then I went to the theater school and I was like, Oh my God, everybody's talented. What am I going to do? But you still in class with folks, uh, you know, all these hours a day, all these days a week. And some people are, uh, become darlings. Some people do not. Some people back then, um, were kept on after the first year, after the second year. And some people were not, and there were, there were there, there were like major head scratchers about that, like to go back and to have completed two years and to be respected in the eyes of your peers and presumably in the eyes of your teachers. And then to get that, that letter that, you know, maybe this isn't for you to be able to, to make that determination in another person's life. And in that way is just, it's, it's astounding. That that was what we signed up for. And I'll tell ya, uh, I remember I'll never forget. That was not really made clear. Um, prior to coming to the theater school, like actually sitting there on the first day, I remember sitting cross-legged on the floor and listening to kind of talking, this is the greatest city in the mind of God and His being like, you know, some of you will Graduate. Most of you will not. I remember like, wow, that's pretty intense. Like I was not so clear on the whole half of you are going to get cut the first year and then half the remaining are going to get cut. The second year, that to me was like deeply, uh, ingenuous disingenuous, because what was really happening. And again, the school is a completely different school. Now they've dealt with this stuff. What was happening was they were bringing in free labor that was actually paying them shitloads of money to be free labor, and then kicking them to the curb. They, I think had a pretty good idea at audition, which of these four kids were actually going to make it to graduation. And I think we had some idea of that, but we were literally pitted against one another. I'll give you one example and then I'll shut up and let Dave go again. Um, we did, uh, an intro in second year, lot called Laughing Wild, and it was by Christopher Durang and it's a two-person so two hander, it's a man and it's a woman. And what they did was they cast four males and something like nine females and the director never set the lines. So every night it was literally these kids who still had not been invited back for their third year and could still be cut in a fucking verbal knife fight everyJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:49:11):This is fucking crazy! Yeah.John Hoogenakker (00:49:13):And you know, it was the director. Like I still had really long hair at that point. Pier said Jason Pierce had really long hair. Uh, Bryan Sharp had really long hair. And I think it was Hunter, uh, Andre. Um, and it was kind of like Ilko didn't really like our long hair. So it was like, you guys all have to look the same. That's what I'm going for. So we all got our haircut and then we commenced to like fighting over these lines. And what we ultimately did was probably pretty cool to look at, but it was also a hot mess. Um, you know, cause he'sJen Bosworth-Ramirez (00:49:49):Totally, no, I mean, I, I think it begs the, so I guess the bigger question here for me and I don't know what you guys think, but, um, th 17, should we be doing this? I, I really, I mean, I know for me, I'm, I'm grateful as hell I went there. I was, I was cut and then asked back, it was a weird thing. I got a letter and then another letter. And then, um, so as a 17 year old or sick, I was 16. Like, this is so much mind fuckery inherent in the system. And w when we went there, I mean, we're all glad we went, but like man kids, I don't know that we should be, if I would, if I had a kid, I don't know that I want my kid to be engaged in a verbal knife fight at 17 with Hunter, Andre. I I'm just, I don't know, but that's, that's a big question.Dave Dastmalchian (00:50:41):I wouldn't put my kids though on the track right now to be actors because of that. But the reality, the harsh reality is that the business of theater and the business of film and television needs 20, 21, 22 year old actors. So to throw them into the best training you can at 18, 19, 20, 21, it sucks. But it's also like it's an exceptional calling to choose the path of the artist. And it's, it's a, it's a, it's more, you know, not to be, you know, uh, whatever ridiculous about it, but it, it, it, it, it is like it's, it's, so it's such an unfair, the world is so unfair. As we know, Jesus Christ turn on the news right now, the world is an unfair place, but the arts are so unfair. And it's like, if someone's going to it's, it's such a complicated question. Cause I do think like right at like 18, maybe that's the earliest. If my kid said, dad, I want to do what you do. I'd say you do as much community theater in high school theater and drama, as you can speech debate, blah, blah, blah. I'm not taking them to a Hollywood audition until they're 18. Um, and if they want to pursue it, I would want them to go study and train somewhere. Like what the theater school is now, you know, at 18. But yeah, it's really complicated. It is. Yeah.John Hoogenakker (00:52:09):I will say that, you know, I was, I was just going to throw this in. When, when I graduated, I got a job working at Chicago Shakespeare, which was started like a couple months after graduation. And I got on stage with, um, Kevin Goodall, Lisa Dodson, Greg Finkler, Brad Armacost, um, all these amazing, uh, classic classic Chicago actors, um, stalwart Chicago actors. And it was the first, uh, it was the first show in the, in their new space. Um, so they had all these great people in the cast. So I got so lucky to be, you know, a messenger in that play. Um, but that was when my personal education in the theater like really started. And that was when I saw like these Titans, uh, kind of dealing with the humdrum rejection of, yeah, I went for another one at PR I didn't get it. Yeah. But it went to blah, blah, blah. And he's a great dude, which is a thing I've always loved about Chicago. It's like, you know, you get to a certain age, it's always the same folks in the room and you kind of are cheering for everybody. You sit in that waiting room, especially PR and it's, it's always a reunion of friends. Um, but I, I, so when I talk to people, parents of child, actors on sets who want to know what I would advise them to do, if these were my kids like Dave, I mean, I kind of, I'm kind of like, you know, if they are still interested in this, when they're 18, I would take all the money that you've saved for college. If you've saved any and just fund their apartment in Los Angeles or Chicago or New York, like start them off when they're that early, because they're four years ahead of the rest of the pack when they graduate. And they will have spent that four years learning at the feet of actual working professionals.Gina Pulice (00:54:08):Yeah. Well, the truth is when somebody wants to be this from the time they're five years old, which probably all of us did, there's no stopping them. I mean, we've heard stories of parents saying, please don't call, study theater, please do something else. And they're going to do what they're going to do, but so let's bring it back to when you guys decided you wanted to go to a conservatory for college. Was that something you knew all along? Did you figure it out later? How did you pick DePaul?Dave Dastmalchian (00:54:37):For me, it was, it was, uh, it was the, it was fate. It was, um, you know, it was truly fate. I mean, it was, it was like a miracle of God. And to me, God works through teachers. It was the power of teachers. I, um, my parents were a mess throughout my, you know, junior high and high school years where I was very much on my own in a lot of regards. And I was a high functioning, um, academically, you know, in the, in the, in the, in a good tier. Um, but I was really, uh, excelling in both speech and football. Those were kind of my two strengths coming through high school. And I didn't see the path towards, um, the academic dreams that I had for college, um, in, in speech or acting or drama for God's sake, but I did through football. So my dream was going into my senior year of high school. I was going to be as yoked as possible, play the best game I could play, get us to state, get a scholarship to go to a better school than I could go to that I knew was at my hands with the amount of money that my mom and I had. And with that scholarship, I was going to try and become a high school football coach who, who ran the drama club. That was my dream for myself, two teachers, my speech coach and our drama teacher said to sat down with me separately and said, you have something you, we will help you if you're, if you're afraid of applying to like arts programs or theater or following a track and drama and hearing that was mindblowing. And they did, they helped me do the research. I looked at SMU, NYU and DePaul. I did a regional audition and then ultimately up to Chicago and my audition was in front of John Jenkins and John Watts. I'll never forget. I was there in cutoff, Jean shorts, a tie dye, Janis Joplin t-shirt and my football socks. And there was a bunch of kids in leotards and jazz shoes who knew what they meant when they were saying things. I did it, my, my monologue was completely wrong. They said, don't do a dialect that I did, uh, a scene from Equis. And then they, we said, don't do a dialect. And I luckily remembered does a tiger wear a neck tie? And I just threw that out there. And it was fate. It was God, it was whatever you choose to believe. But then I got a letter, uh, very soon after that, that, and I was miserable thinking about playing four years of college football. That's important to note, I did not want to do that, but I knew it was a means to an end. My brother was a collegiate athlete and I knew the demands of that and that, that was going to be my life for four years. But for me to get the education I wanted, it was worth it. Um, and I got this letter that not only had I been invited to participate in the theater school program, but I had also been given this, um, this, this huge scholarship, uh, called the Stanley andJohn Hoogenakker (00:57:35):Good for you, Dave, we're all happy for you.Dave Dastmalchian (00:57:39):That's my story. I'm done as John, just going into the story about the buckets. Hey, I left school with a massive amount of Debt as well because my scholarship did not cover living expenses. That's why I had to leave theater school for a year to goJohn Hoogenakker (00:57:58):Dave. Yeah. Dave wanted to live in a four bedroom, three bathroom.Dave Dastmalchian (00:58:03):Gina can tell you where we lived on Lill. What was Our landlord's name?Gina Pulice (00:58:11):Earl Pionke!John Hoogenakker (00:58:15):was Lill, the place. It was like right around the corner from healing earth resources? Like, yeah, that's the one where like a couple like, or an adjacent building had the, uh, the deck collapsed right there. Yeah.Dave Dastmalchian (00:58:31):And the tanks? remember the Space Time tanks, John. The floating tanks?John Hoogenakker (00:58:33):what's that?Dave Dastmalchian (00:58:33):Didn't we go do that together? The tanks, the, that the, the deprivation. The sensory deprivation ones?John Hoogenakker (00:58:38):Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, right there. One of the oldest ones in the city is right there. Yeah. Thanks for, thanks for a, no dude. I'm so happy. So that'd be for you for getting a scholarship to DePaul. That's great. Um, good for you. Um, I didn't get a scholarship. I, uh, no, we, no, I totally very similar story except I was not going to be an athlete, uh, ever. Um, I was in, uh, I was, uh, in speech and debate in high school. I had not done theater since I was a child, like a younger child, uh, because I got, um, braces and my dad who was a, a local actor in Charlotte, um, was like, there's no, there's no market for a kid with braces. So then I was, um, I think at about 10th grade, I started competing in humorous interpretation, which Dave? Yeah. Um, and, and I did really well in that. And so then when I got to, uh, senior year, the drama teacher and I'd never taken drama at the theater at the, uh, high school, you know, she would, uh, she would accompany the speech team on debate trips. She reached out and she was like, Hey, you know, if you want to take this class, you can take the senior level drama class. And she, and my speech coach, uh, Barbara Miller said, you know, you should, you should check out some theater schools, see where you can study. And we, I looked into like, uh, a Julliard I was really interested in because I knew that Robin Williams had gone there, but I think it was more expensive to audition there. And I somehow missed the whole boat on, you know, I think a lot of people, I know Kelly, my wife, um, auditioned at, uh, in Chicago, but for a bunch of schools all at once. Um, and I, uh, I came in like late January, early February, uh, and we stayed, it was going to be a big deal for my family. So we stayed at the Palmer house. Um, and I went and I, again like, like Dave, I was surrounded by all these kids that just seemed so focused. And so like tuned in to this world that all of a sudden seemed very foreign to me and completely unattainable. And like, I was just completely a fish out of water. And, um, and I did, uh, my, my drama teacher had given me a monologue that was, you know, gonna be probably like, does a tire tire wear a neck tie or something, you know, appropriate for the location for the venue. And I didn't, you know, I, we had done, um, a musical called runaways and there was a monologue and runaways that I thought, well, it just really spoke to me. It was about a, a young kid whose mother had passed away. And he was kind of like just mourning her. And I remembered my drama teacher being like, well, it's your life? Good luck. And, um, and I came, came to the school and we did the whole, like, they let us through warmups, which was bizarre. That was Patrice, I think. Um, and then I did my monologue for like Betsy, I believe, and maybe John and possibly bill Brown. Um, and, uh, and I left completely dejected and I told my dad, I was like, well, that's not going to happen. Um, you know,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (01:02:06):So I have to interrupt and say that everyone we talk to, I am not kidding you. Every single human I've talked to says, I left that place after my audition feeling like, well, I don't, I think I bombed, But no one I've talked to has been like, I nailed that.John Hoogenakker (01:02:26):Well, that's, you know, I that's so, uh, indicative of the way, like the vibe at the time, the teachers weren't like, they weren't there to coddle you and be able to good job. You've really nailed it. I think you're going to go Places said, no DePaul teacher ever. No, no, no. They certainly, certainly they do now. But, uh, but yeah, so we left and I had forgotten my watch. Cause, you know, you had to like all of a sudden, like I don't, I think I just barely remembered to bring sweat pants or something like that. Um, and, uh, so I forgot my watch. So my dad was like, I'm sure you did find bud. And so like the next day or whatever, he calls Melissa Meltzer and he's like, Hey Melissa, I'm wondering, did you guys find a watch? Um, cause John, he lost a watch. You didn't, you didn't find a watch. Huh? Okay. All right. Well, uh, thank you. And then she was like, so how does John feel like he did? And my dad was like, Oh, well, he bombed it. He did very well. I just wanted to make sure we got that watch before we Charlie. And, uh, and she was like, yeah, he's one of you we're sending out a couple, uh, a couple letters of admission right now or whatever acceptance right now. And he's one of them and I just could not believe it. And, um, yeah, it was, it was really, really great. But again, I had no idea what I was signing up for, because if it wasn't DePaul, it was going to be Appalachian state, um, or community college in Charlotte because I mean, I had, I had, uh, I was in AP classes and I had done well on my SATs, but I was not a focused student otherwise. And, uh, didn't have the scores to get into state or Carolina or any of the vaunted, uh, universities in my home state.Gina Pulice (01:04:18):According to my research, you guys did at least two shows together. Uh, uh, yeah, right. Um, I got the Blues and Peter pan, Peter pan,Dave Dastmalchian (01:04:33):The, uh, we did the, um, uh, uh, Glengarry Glen Ross scene together. And then our senior year when we were all very frustrated with the, with the, with the, with the plays that had been mostly, there was some really cool plays that were selected for our fourth year, but we were, we were frustrated collectively John, his wife, Kelly, our friend, Dennis Zack, a whole group of us got together. And we put on our own production of white check. Uh, we worked together, uh, doing that, uh, outside of school and performed at a coffee shop nearby because we were determined to do challenging work that was going to actually give us a chance to do something. So, yeah. But while we were those first four years, and then in the year, since we've done three things together probably or four, yeah,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (01:05:25):teacher was amazing. Teacher was a good,Dave Dastmalchian (01:05:27):thank you. Thank you. I was so excited when, um, we got John, uh, it's just putting him into anything is going to elevate it. As you guys know you watch any TV show, any movie, any play, you name it. John comes into something he's going to elevate it. But I knew that that relationship I needed that character that I played in teacher had nobody else to ground him. He had nobody else to clean too. He had nobody else to like tu tu tu, tu, tu tu, you know, make me feel any sense of, of my, the characters, much needed humanity for the audience to get on board with him in those moments that John and I got. And John did a lot of stuff that magically woke up. It was a great script, but man, John took it to the, a much, a greater level, but just which is the magic he does. He did the same thing in animals. When I said, we've got to please be in my movie, please. I knew what he would do and sure as he did it, he walked in and everybody was just like, I mean, it's one of the best scenes of a movie that I'm very proud of. It's a 90 minute film filled with scenes that I love, but that is the scene I've probably gone back to, uh, more than any. And I go, God, really proud of the writing I did there, but what he did with little nuanced moments, I've, I've learned a lot watching my friend onstage and on, on, on set and I will continue to, I also watch everything he does obviously because he is my friend, but also because he gets to do a lot of really cool stuff. And, um, but I learned a lot. I learned a lot from, from you, John.John Hoogenakker (01:07:07):I feel the same way about you, man. You, I got to say, Dave has always been an inspiration to me because of, as I mentioned at the beginning of our talk because of the positivity that he puts out into the world. And Dave, you know, as he mentioned earlier, uh, went through the ringer with substance abuse. And, um, I think it's less than 7% of people, uh, who, who have been where you were, uh, ever come back. Um, and so to be one of those people who not just survived, but who thrived in an already incredibly challenging industry, um, is just absolutely astounding. And to, and to continually go back to the well and create, be a force of creativity and, you know, your own engine and guiding your own ship, um, while being, uh, you know, a partner and a father is, um, I, I feel so lucky that I've gotten to lean on you for inspiration and to call you for adviceDave Dastmalchian (01:08:17):Or, you know, it's wonderful. Like it's, I'm so grateful and that's another thing I'm so I'll always thank God for the theater school because of John Hoogenakker, and so many people that have been instrumental in my life. And I think it's important to note too, as far as the friendships that were forged in that time, um, you asked earlier too, there was some, obviously there were some teachers that taught me some wonderful techniques and skills, but also really hurt my heart in some certain ways. But that was it wouldn't be fair to, to neglect and not point out that like I'll never forget it. If there was one person who actually did take time to try, I felt like in her way to teach us ways of coping was Phyllis for me, she talked to me a lot about meditation. She introduced me to some books that were really instrumental to my journey, um, and like really wacky, like psychedelic stuff that I was really invested in thinking about at the time and really cool ways of trying to process depression. I didn't, I wasn't diagnosed at that time and I wasn't getting the proper help that I needed for my depression, but that was really, I I'm so grateful, uh, as well as, you know, the encouragement that someone like her showed, she was a needed angel at the time for me, um, in a dark place. Um, and bridges, I mean, I know he wasn't, um, you know, uh, faculty, he was staff, but that guy, um, recognized and saw some stuff that no one else was willing to address in my self-destruction. And he showed up for me way outside and above and beyond the, the, the roll call of whatever his payroll was or required of himJohn Hoogenakker (01:10:03):And his door was Always open. And as a side note, he attended your wedding. I bel

Hi Y'all! (thats what our American cousins say, it means hello everyone!) Welcome back to another episode of the WN MOVIE TALK (formally known as the We Need To Talk About Movies Podcast) and this is one of those separate spin off episodes in which I, (Trev) rummage through my ever growing list of films that I own that I haven't watched yet, pick a few at random, then watch and review them.What film will I choose in this episode? Well, I have three for you here, The Sisters Brothers a modern Western starring Joaquin Phoenix, John C. Riley , Jake Gyllenhaal and Riz AhmedLucky Number Slevin - a quirky Tarantinoesque crime thriller starring Ben Kingsley , Josh Hartnett, Bruce Willis and Morgan FreemanBound - a gritty and sexy crime thriller starring Jennifer Tilley, Gina Gershon and Joe Pantoliano and written and directed by Matrix creators The Wachowski Brothers... before they became sisters... so another pair of Sisters Brothers! Deja vous! Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/wnmovietalk)

It's really difficult to explain what happens in this third feature from Paul Thomas Anderson. So I'm very glad I brought in guests Jeanette Mickenham and Erin & Kevin from The Podcast That Wouldn't Die to help me out with our discussion. Magnolia has a great cast with Julianne Moore, Phillip Seymour Hoffman, Melora Walters, Tom Cruise, John C. Riley and much much more. It's a drama that interweaves many characters all through out one rainy day in L.A. Includes a Bonus Short Review of Licorice Pizza before the show --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/cinemarecall/support

Welcome to Silence Your Phones - a movie review podcast. Each week, Chris Chavez and Shawn Fritz watch a movie and discuss aspects such as cast, acting, writing, music, special effects and more. Before you start listening, remember to Silence Your Phones. On this episode, Chris and Shawn check out Martin Scorsese's epic Gangs of New York. Stacked with a cast that includes Leonardo DiCaprio, Cameron Diaz, John C. Riley, and Daniel Day Lewis, the film depicts life in the Five Points neighborhood of New York City at a time when Civil War threatened to fracture a young country. Poverty, crooked politicians and disease were among the norms in day to day life, but it's the street gangs that Scorsese decides to focus on in a movie that went on to garner a multitude of award nominations. Find us on the web at BICBP-RADIO.COM

The Bondzilla Podcast returns to the Monsterverse one more time in order to bring this series about Kong to a close. Grab your gas masks and samurai swords, put the needle down on those sweet 70s tunes, and bring all your John C. Riley love, as it's time to finally take on "Kong: Skull Island."

Harvey Brownstone conducts an in-depth interview with The Good Witch of Hollywood, Patti Negri About Harvey's guestPatti is a Psychic-Medium and “Good Witch” best known for her recurring role on the Travel Channel's #1 show GHOST ADVENTURES. She is the international best selling author of OLD WORLD MAGICK FOR THE MODERN WORLD: TIPS, TRICKS, & TECHNIQUES TO BALANCE, EMPOWER, & CREATE A LIFE YOU LOVE. Patti's body of work includes appearances on such shows as MASTER CHEF, BEVERLY HILLS PAWN and Jeff Lewis' FLIPPING OUT. She has graced numerous magazine covers, contributed to over 20 books and conducted seances on radio, film, and TV working with such legends as Jon Voight, Josh Duhamel, Chevy Chase and Gregory Hines.Patti enjoys working her magic on Ghost Adventures and their new spinoff Deadly Possessions on the Travel Channel, Jeff Lewis's Flipping Out, some magickal cooking on Master Chef with Gordon Ramsey, conjuring up a few “dead celebrities” on Private Chefs of Beverly Hills, Beverly Hills Pawn and several episodes of Pit Boss and an upcoming Bad Girls Club. Patti was brought in as a paranormal expert on Ghostly Lovers, Candidly Nicole, Mansion Hunters, Beverly Hills Pawn and dozens more. She has even gotten into the home makeover world on Mobile Home Disaster. In addition to being a host of PSYCHICS GONE WILD on Blogtalk Radio, Patti has been heard on national syndicated radio with Adam Corolla, Jason Ellis and Mancow Muller.As a performer Patti has enjoyed numerous stage, film, and television roles, and has had the honor of working with Martin Sheen, Burt Reynolds, Jon Voight, John C. Riley, Ernie Hudson, Josh Duhumel, Chevy Chase, Sylvester Stallone and Emma Stone to name a few. She has danced with Gregory Hines, choreographed for David Hasselhoff and entertained celebrities on scavenger hunts and toga mysteries across the Greek Islands. As a producer, Patti owns Brain Brew Entertainment, a theatrical production company that specializes in live entertainment.Patti's working style is magical, loving and upbeat — which creates a positive, safe and fun environment for you to learn, grow and heal. She has been practicing natural magick her entire life. Her specialty is in adjusting energy and flow – in people, spaces, situations, most anything. She works organically by creating spells and rituals that arrange natural elements to the rhythms and cycles of the universe to bring about healing, change our lives for the better, and create balance. Patti is also honored to be President and Chief Examiner of the American Federation of Certified Psychics and Mediums.For more interviews and podcasts go to: https://www.harveybrownstoneinterviews.com https://www.pattinegri.com/https://www.facebook.com/PattiNegriPsychicMediumhttps://www.youtube.com/user/pinkkaire/videoshttps://www.instagram.com/patti.negri/?hl=en#pattinegri #harveybrownstoneinterviews

brother day, pop culture, fahrenheit, 1st telegraph, mike reid, reeses peanut butter cups, john c. riley, roseanne cash, patti labelle, gary burghoff, bob dylan, tommy chong

It's funny how we decide to talk about a movie a month in advance, and the world decides to make it AWKWARDLY RELEVANT FOR MY SHOW! But Liana and I run head-on into the fire anyways. Featuring:Liana Pavane!Host of "Ghost of Dates Past" the dating podcast, Liana loves long walks on the beach! (Or something like that.) She implores you to ditch technology, and check out her website:  ttylnyc.com Contact NOT FILM SCHOOL:Email: ThisIsNotFilmSchool@gmail.comFacebook: Not Film SchoolInsta: @NotFilmSchoolPodcastTwitter: @NotFilmSchool69 Special Thanks to:Ryan Maguire - Intro MusicBrieana Woodward - ArtJoe Moubhij - IT Advice And Lionel Shriver! You took your very human concerns, and you turned it into an awe-inspiring piece of work. CONSIDER IT READ! Also, Lynne Ramsay, Tilda Swinton, and Ezra Miller. For an outstanding adaptation, and outstanding performances.

Lyndon White joins us to talk about the 2011 psychological thriller drama, "We Need to Talk About Kevin". The screenplay was written by Ramsay and Rory Stewart Kinner, based on the novel of the same name. The movie stars Tilda Swinton, John C. Riley, and Ezra Miller. "Eva Khatchadourian is a travel writer/publisher who gives up her beloved freedom and bohemian lifestyle to have a child with her husband, Franklin. Pregnancy does not seem to agree with Eva, but what's worse, when she does give birth to a baby boy named Kevin, she can't seem to bond with him. When Kevin grows from a fussy, demanding toddler into a sociopathic teen, Eva is forced to deal with the aftermath of her son's horrific act." The artwork used for our episode cover and seen above we created by Jackson Ellis. I found this while creating the episode artwork and really thought it was better than the official movie poster. You can find these and other illustrations by Jackson Ellis by heading over to https://www.jellistrations.com/ or to his Instagram. Get our Merch:bit.ly/NerdsMerch Follow us on social media:https://twitter.com/NerdsFTChttps://www.instagram.com/nerdsftchttps://ww.facebook.com/NerdsFTC Saul:https://twitter.com/Better_CallMe Greg:https://twitter.com/ThatAmazingTwithttps://www.instagram.com/thatamazingtwit David:https://twitter.com/DaveyDave503https://www.instagram.com/daveydave Theme by: Jake Lionharthttps://twitter.com/Jake_Lionheart

Did we just become best friends? Best buds The Kernal and the Trash Panda get together to talk about one of their most favorite movies STEP BROTHERS. Starring Will Ferrell and John C Riley this movie is truly my spirit animal.

"America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, bad-ass speed." - Elenaor Roosevelt. We're breaking down the NASCAR comedy "Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby". We discuss John C. Riley's emergence as a comedy star, a tremendous cast, and Wonder Bread! Plus, Connor breaks down the SAG Award nominees.

You don't want any part of this. We are doing Dewey Cox with our boy Nick Cox!

Pucker up and kiss, Baddies, we’re visiting Drew Barrymore’s classic, Never Been Kissed. Steffani DeRita joins the Boys once more for the ‘99 classic that has every actor that makes the 2000’s, John C. Riley, David Arquette, Molly Shannon, and James Franco. This movie could NOT be made now or even thought about in a Hollywood boardroom. In this film we learn the importance of first impressions and the most employed extra in the business. Alejandro wonders how Hollywood gets high school proms and parties so wrong. Steff thinks Filipinos are basically Mexicans of Asia, and tells us about ex-boyfriends who catfished themselves to make her jealous. Christian pleads the case for Steffani to not get fake breasts and Alejandro thinks she should so she can be a WWE Superstar.  FOLLOW STEFFANI DERITA ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/steffanider...  Check out our website at: https://www.icbtb.com  Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...  Or listen to us on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7FsYf47...  Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjEA...

Terrence Malick, Sissy Spacek, Orange County, Jack Black, Martin Sheen, Apocalypse Now, Third Rock From the Son, Charlie Sheen, Platoon, SXSW, Thin Red Line, John C. Riley, Badlands, Days of Heaven, Richard Gere, Sam Shepherd --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Family Video, Nicolas Cage, Talented Mr Ripley, Meet Joe Black, Gwyneth Paltrow, Life, Eddy Murphy, Martin Lawrence, Titanic, Jude Law, Matt Damon, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Philip Baker Hall, 8 Ball, John C. Riley, Jake Gyllenhaal, Nightcrawler, The Joker, Dexter, Breaking Bad --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Episode Notes This week in news Anthony Mackie is starring 9in the next Netflix film, Jeopardy has decided on its next host, Cineworld is shutting down for the r4st of the year, Amazon has cancelled Utopia, David Lynch has inked a deal with Netflix, rumors have begun about Amber Heard heading to Marvel, we have an official replacement for Johnny Depp in Fantastic Beasts, Netflix lost a bid for Godzilla vs Kong, Dave Chappelle gets Chapelle showed pulled from Netflix and we have an official release date for Coming 2 America. In reviews this week Tyler goes off on the final season of The Sopranos and his frustrations towards it as well as praises Amazons newly acquired series Wayne. Lance reviews American Horror Story's cult season and his excitement about Apocalypses. Tyler talks the mediocrity that is John C. Riley's new show Moonbase 8, his surprise enjoyment for the HBO doc The Inventor and his dumbfoundedness about the flat earth doc Beyond the Curve. Lastly Lance FINALLY got around to seeing Tenet and we get into a lengthy discussion on its tone, pace and overall feeling towards the film.

Non aspettatevi un capolavoro, ne i famosi ragionamenti del Detective più famoso al mondo, ma qualche risata assolutamente si! Sopratutto se c’è Ethan Coen alla regia e Will Ferrell e John C Riley nel cast!

On this episode, Cooper talks to comic Andrew Michaan who started his career as a production intern on Check It Out with Dr. Steve Brule while honing his craft as a standup. We discuss how nihilism and pragmatism have helped him navigate LA, what it’s really like making his fantastic podcast, Podcast but Outside, and we figure out exactly how many people have slept with Obama. If you’d like to contact us feel free to email us at PANationPodcast@gmail.com or find us on Twitter and Instagram @PANationPodcast.

Patti Negri is a psychic-medium, author, actress podcaster, and much more. best known for her recurring role on the Travel Channel’s hit television series, Ghost Adventures. Patti has had an amazing career sharing the screen with the likes of some of Hollywood's A-listers such as Gregory Hines, Martin Sheen, Burt Reynolds, Jon Voight, John C. Riley, Ernie Hudson, Josh Duhumel, Chevy Chase, Sylvester Stallone and Emma Stone to name a few. This Halloween episode we get to know Patti a bit better, but just because she's psychic, don't ask her what you had for lunch! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/gabriel658/message

Film: The Sisters Brothers (2018) This week, Jared and Dan watch a "special" Western starring Joaquin Phoenix and John C. Riley! Subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts and leave us a 5 star review! Twitter: @IndieFilmPod Instagram: @IndieFilmReviewPod email: theindiefilmreview@gmail.com

I really hate the catchphrase, “I have a face for radio!” I'm clearly a fan of self-deprecation, but there’s so much assumption wrapped up in that statement that it really irritates me.   Think about the last movie or TV episode you watched. The vast majority of actors you see on the screen have non-standard appearances. Contrary to popular belief, movies and television shows are not the exclusive domain of beautiful people. In fact, beautiful people are the exception rather than the rule.  John C. Riley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Reilly), and almost every other actor. Would the shows they appear in be better if they instead had classic good looks? No, not at all. These professional working actors all share one thing in common, and it has nothing to do with their faces. It’s that they are professionals who have worked very hard to get very good at what they do. It’s the same for us, podcasters. We should each work hard at making our voice is as good as it can be. Not “as pleasant” or as “approachable”. As good as it can be. And you get to decide what “good” means.  But don’t work at changing your voice. Your voice is your voice. You can’t “change” your voice any more than Bill Murray can “change” his face. With actors, it’s about learning how to use their faces. And for podcasters like us, it’s about learning how to use our voices effectively.  The most important thing about a podcaster is not the tone or timbre of their voice: It’s the way they deliver words to the audience. My friend and fellow Blue Genes (https://open.spotify.com/track/1jjLT9h9vnMMNQcjoPp4hv?si=du8ebV9ZRxOJnQubyNAsWA) and is worth a listen. Yes, right now. ----- Read the full article and share with a friend: https://podcastpontifications.com/episode/podcasting-with-a-voice-that-could-peel-paint (https://podcastpontifications.com/episode/podcasting-with-a-voice-that-could-peel-paint) Follow Evo on Twitter (https://twitter.com/evoterra) for more podcasting insights as they come. Buy him a virtual coffee (https://buymeacoffee.com/evoterra) to show your support. And if you need a professional in your podcasting corner, please visit Simpler.Media (https://podcastlaunch.pro/) to see how Simpler Media Productions can help you reach your business objectives with podcasting. Podcast Pontifications (https://podcastpontifications.com/) is published by Evo Terra four times a week and is designed to make podcasting better, not just easier. This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy Support this podcast

This week were talking Step Brothers a Will Ferrell and John C. Riley comedy classic Join us as we talk Pattinsons Batman spinoff on HBO MAX and how this could work for the DCEU Big special thanks to our Garbage Boi Rian for editing this episode together and checkout his DND podcast Dragon Questicles! https://dragonquesticles.com/ https://twitter.com/rian_dotcom Thanks to Nick for joining us and checkout his twitter and movie review blog https://tsames.blogspot.com/ https://twitter.com/ReelWatch We’re Talking Flick and you can follow us here for more content https://twitter.com/flick_talking talkingflick@gmail.com talkingflick.com --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

In this episode, Movie Mike talks about his Top 5 Movies of 2020 so far and what he’s still hoping to see this year when movie theatres open back up. Mike talks about a clever way some YouTubers scored a No. 1 movie in America during the coronavirus pandemic. Plus a joint movie review with Bobby Bones of the BobbyCast and Producer Eddie of the Sore Losers. The all 3 review Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story starring John C. Riley.  New Episodes Every Monday! Follow Mike on Instagram: @mikedeestro Follow Mike on Twitter: @mikedeestro Follow Mike on Facebook: @mikedeestro Learn more about your ad-choices at https://news.iheart.com/podcast-advertisers

Today we feature 1766 Brewing Co. out of Plymouth NH. We all love the timeless classic "Step Brothers" with Will Ferrell and John C Riley. This interview is basically the brewery version of this. So sit back, stay inside, wash your hands and enjoy this episode, it's a lot of fun.Make sure to stay up to date with them at their website.https://www.1766brewing.com See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

What happens when you mash up “Top Gun” and NASCAR? You get “Days of Thunder” starring the incredibly talented actor and Operating Thetan Level 8 himself, Tom Cruise. His Mrs. Ex-Tom Cruise Nicole Kidman and Robert Duvall show up to add some class. There’s a young John C. Riley working the pit where he leaned the tricks of the trade regarding “Shake and Bake”. That’s a reference to “Talladega Nights” a movie that’s almost as funny as “Days of Thunder”. Don’t believe it? Listen to this episode and we will try to change your mind. The post S10: E4: Days of Thunder appeared first on Legion.

What happens when you mash up “Top Gun” and NASCAR? You get “Days of Thunder” starring the incredibly talented actor and Operating Thetan Level 8 himself, Tom Cruise. His Mrs. Ex-Tom Cruise Nicole Kidman and Robert Duvall show up to add some class. There’s a young John C. Riley working the pit where he leaned the tricks of the trade regarding “Shake and Bake”. That’s a reference to “Talladega Nights” a movie that’s almost as funny as “Days of Thunder”. Don’t believe it? Listen to this episode and we will try to change your mind.

What happens when you mash up “Top Gun” and NASCAR? You get “Days of Thunder” starring the incredibly talented actor and Operating Thetan Level 8 himself, Tom Cruise. His Mrs. Ex-Tom Cruise Nicole Kidman and Robert Duvall show up to add some class. There’s a young John C. Riley working the pit where he leaned the tricks of the trade regarding “Shake and Bake”. That’s a reference to “Talladega Nights” a movie that’s almost as funny as “Days of Thunder”. Don’t believe it? Listen to this episode and we will try to change your mind.

Ding-Dongs, Christian and Alejandro take on this “two hander” (as they say in the Biz) Step Brothers (2008), starring Will Ferrel, John C. Riley, Adam Scott, and Mary Steenburgen. You know it, we know it, everyone knows it… what people don’t know is how wrong critics were when they reviewed this movie. Christian lets Alejandro know that he’s a haole; no one is shocked. Melissa de-thrones Christian as “Champion of Guessing ‘What Percentage of Google Users Liked This Movie’”. We chat Full House, $20,000 fake testicles, Alejandro’s attempt to get ladies, and rap battle each other, cause we’ve never done that thing before. Stick around till the very end to hear how Alejandro and Christian pillow talk.

Ralph Darden is a musician, DJ and composer based in Chicago.The self taught, multi instrumentalist, grew up in Philadelphia, where he graduated from the High School for Creative and Performing Arts. He spent his formative years playing in several punk bands (Random Children, Franklin, AM/FM), completing a series of self-booked nation wide tours and releasing several albums on various independent record labels. All in the pre-internet world of the early 90s.In 2005 he formed his dub infused, post punk band The Jai Alai Savant. He wrote and produced the band's album Flight Of The Bass Delegate and spent the next few years touring and performing both domestically & abroad. He currently plays guitar and sings backing vocals with Ted Leo & The Pharmacists.Contiguously, his DJ career began in the late 90s. Initially guided by an obsession with the intersectionality of punk, reggae, hip hop and electronic dance music, Ralph took on the moniker DJ Major Taylor,(a reference to his days a a cyclist), throwing a series of successful genre bending dance parties. Ralph established himself as a adept open format turntablst and a pioneering figure in the burgeoning Philadelphia nightlife scene of the early 2000’s. According to Diplo “Wow ... well ... Major Taylor (Ralph) was one of the djs/musicians in Philly that inspired Hollertronix ... he's like one of the true sources of that party". Eventually he moved to Chicago, and in 2015 started his DJ company November Electric which focuses on pairing stylistically similar DJs with high end events like weddings, fashion shows, and wrap parties for film and tv productions. He has since dj'd wrap events for Ron Howard, Vince Vaughn, Steven Sodoberg and John C Riley. He has toured the globe spinning festivals and nightclubs. He has DJ'd over 150 weddings including destination weddings in Cambodia and Melbourne, Australia.In 2008 he composed music for the independent film Polish Bar, and has since composed for several other independent films, commercials and television productions - including the short lived Comcast kids show, Gross World, in which he was a featured character. In 2012 he scored an episode of the animated series Happy Tree Friends, a collaborative effort directed by high school friend Rob Shaw. The pair went on to collaborate on other projects including a Transformers Toy Commercial for Hasbro. They are currently working their music project The Puny Humans. Ralph continues composing.

This week I Made Alicia watch the racing movie that made NASCAR a household name outside of the deep south, Days of Thunder. It’s our first look on this podcast at Tom Cruise, Randy Quaid, and John C Riley – all of whom we will see again in future sports movies. Buckle up that harness, […]

This week we look at Stan and Ollie and Us - which are two movies... not three or a weird group of people. And a comparison of Alita: Battle Angel and Captain Marvel - is it really the same movie? www.CinemaSavants.com

Isaac and Adam 2 convene to discuss The Sister Brothers,the 2018 western staring John C. Riley and Jaoquin Phoenix. Saddle up! Show Notes The Sisters Brothers Song of the ‘Sode The Sisters Brothers Theme by Alexandre Desplat

The 2 dudes saw the reviews and just had to see Holmes & Watson. Sky and Colin also talk Will Ferrell's roller coaster of a career. This week in the Trailer Park: "Us" from director Jordan Peele!

The immortal comedy duo of Laurel and Hardy have been given a second life on screen by John C. Riley and Steve Coogan in the new film Stan & Ollie. The actors have been nominated for their roles at the Golden Globes and BAFTAs respectively, and they discuss the film that tells the story of Laurel and Hardy's final UK tour in the twilight of their careers.A man wakes up in a forest with no memory. He is told that today a murder will be committed. He will relive the same day eight times, but each morning he'll wake up in a different body. This lies at the heart of The Seven Deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle which has just won the Costa First Novel Award. Its author Stuart Turton discusses his time-travelling, body-hopping novel.Tomorrow, the partial shutdown of the US government becomes the longest in the country's history, leaving some 800,000 federal employees unpaid. From New York, David D'Arcy of the Art Newspaper explains how the shutdown is impacting on the US's arts and cultural institutions.Presenter Kirsty Lang Producer Jerome Weatherald

Wreck-it Ralph is back with his best friend, Vanellope. Together these two (John C. Riley and Sarah Silverman) have to take an adventure to an unknown and strange world: The Internet.

Wreck-it Ralph is back with his best friend, Vanellope. Together these two (John C. Riley and Sarah Silverman) have to take an adventure to an unknown and strange world: The Internet.

In this review episode, I talk about my thoughts on Kevin Hart's new comedy "Night School" and what I think on Kevin Hart movies. I also reviewed the movie "The Sister's Brothers" starring John C. Riley and Joaquin Phoenix sharing my thoughts on this unconventional western. Thank you to all listeners and fellow moviegoers! Please rate and review The Post Credits Podcast wherever you listen to podcast! To contact us, email us at thepostcreditspod@gmail.com. Remember, Keep Watching Movies!

Hey there Poptopia,  This week Tom and Reuben sit down to discuss 2014's Aubrey Plaza horror comedy Life After Beth, also staring John C. Riley and Dane DeHaan. As always find us on: Libsyn (http://popgoulash.libsyn.com) iTunes (https://tinyurl.com/ydxx6f98 ) Stitcher (https://tinyurlcom/yc4hu2y9) Google Play Music (https://tinurl.com/y9yjdna8) Spotify (https://tinyurl.com/ychkpm29) Facebook (facebook.com/popgoulash) Twitter: @popgoulash Instagram: Pop_Goulash_Reuben Email: PopGoulash42@gmail.com Voice Mail: 224-325-4235  

The warm orange glow of Fall is slowly covering us like a well worn sweater. Summer is now a foregone memory and the adventures of the sun baked season call for the slow drawl of a forlorn autumn day. There's nothing better on a cool autumn night than a good movie, and this Fall is chalk full of them! From Creed II, Widows, Ralph Breaks the Internet, to the hilarious misadventures of the new Will Ferrell and John C. Riley midcentury romp: Holmes & Watson, this fall is shaping up to be special. Listen in as The Beta Report breaks down all of the must see movies of the fall and, more importantly, the movies you should most definitely stay away from. All that and so much more, on this week's episode of The Beta Report.

In today's episode we are once again joined by the lovely Del, creator of Little Crowns. Ace and bigT give a brief review of a mystery movie they saw with ‘screen unseen'. We get into the news with Matt Smith joining the Star Wars cast, John Wick riding a horse, Will Ferrell and John C. Riley are Holmies again, Aquaman test screening reactions, and DC may or may not have cast some actors in some movies, who cares. Our double main feature for today is a review of The Happytime Murders and The Spy Who Dumped Me. Can find us on: Sound cloud @blerds r us iTunes @ blerds r us can also find and contact us on facebook@ facebook.com/blerdsrus instagram: blerds_r_us twitter@ @blerdsrus email@ blerdsrus@hotmail.com

Berkreviews.com Movie Club episode 071 - Magnolia (1999) Continuing Jonathan (@berkreviews) and Corey's (@coreyrstarr) exploration of Paul Thomas Anderson during the month of May, they check out Magnolia. The film has a huge cast that heavily centers on characters played by Tom Cruise, Jason Robards, and Julianne Moore. However, Anderson regulars John C. Riley, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and Philip Baker Hall all play big roles. Corey had seen some of this film before but stopped watching it feeling overwhelmed by the interwoven storylines. Jonathan hadn't seen it at all. Next episode - Hard Eight Our last movie for PTA month is his first film. Corey picked Hard Eight (1996) starring Philip Baker Hall, John C. Reilly, and, the mother of Goop, Gwyneth Paltrow. Neither She nor Jonathan has seen where PTA entered the feature film game. While this will be the last episode featuring a PTA movie, Jonathan is determined to see his other films so check Berkreviews.com to read his reviews as he d --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/berkreviewscom-moviecasts/support

Bill innovates systems of his own imaginings, he also thinks snow storms are a waste of time, so Bill hasn't missed a beat. Matt takes us down to the Samarium area. The fellas discuss metals, magnets and kabuki drops. “Guy McIntyre, Noir Offensive Lineman” is born. Ricky gets REAL comfy as Shelly starts telling the war-story and Matt is ON BOARD! The fellas discuss the “stats” for entirely too long. Crumb cake, from the store gets its day on the shelf. Glenister gets the GGGR bump though that probably doesn't mean what you think it means. The fellas discuss the sales protocol. John C. Riley gets corralled in this week's ACTUAL WWTP. Bill doesn't like Hoffa and dodges any responsibility for not having produced a new jingle. Bill considers the podcast a “me” situation while Matt considers it an “us” situation. Bill's only attempt at being logical is scatalogical. The fellas break down “the guy on the train” metaphor and ask each other an important moral question. We learn that Bill is a stand-up guy and Matt is less than a stand-up guy. No one is surprised. Bill gives us the Welcome Back Kotter WWTP and secretly longed to be a sweat hog and Matt does his best to stay… awake. The “Silver Spoons” theme is discussed for literally NO reason.

Erick Estrada presenta y comenta los avances más recientes sobre dos cintas: 'Sorry to bother You' del director Boots Riley y 'Wifi Ralph', secuela de 'Wreck-it Ralph', donde participan Sarah Silverman y John C. Riley

In Thank God! They Moved My Cheese, John C. Riley shares his personal story and four key strategies on how he transitioned from an employee to an entrepreneur. John hopes that his story will serve as inspiration and encouragement as you envision a new life for yourself filled with the dreams of your choosing. This book will encourage you to rekindle your dreams and develop a plan for your personal success.

Vi inventerar bårhuset som miljö i skräckfilm. Tomas drar en lans för europeiskt filmskapande och Lars spekulerar i vad som driver en människa att lägga tusentals kronor på den svenska VHS-utgåvan av Bårhusassistenten. Vi pratar också om: Maniac, The Blair Witch Project, James Herbert, The Dark, Edgar Allan Poe, The Beyond, Re-Animator, Nicolas Winding Refn, Neon Demon, Ash vs Evil Dead, Hunchback of the Morgue, Paul Naschy, Aftermath, Jesus Pettersson, Guniea Pig, Äkta skräck 2, Vertigo Förlag, The Corpse of Anna Fritz, Nattvakten, Nicholai Coster-Walda, Kim Bodnia, Ole Borndal, Joachim Holbek, Ewan McGregor, Josh Brolin, Nick Nolte, Brad Gerick, John C. Riley, Patricia Arquette, Steven Soderbergh, The Stepfather, The Cut, Cadaver, Anonymous Blood, Riket, The Autopsy of Jane Doe, André Øvredal, Brian Cox, Emile Hirsch, Six Feet Under, Mattias Hagberg, Rekviem för en vanskapt, Mask of Satan, Black Sunday och Nordic noir. Nostalgi, löst tyckande och akademisk analys i en salig röra.

“And I was like, You racist bitch!” For this episode, Peter and Red go over the (2002) musical film Chicago, starring Taye Diggs, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Renée Zellweger, Richard Gere, Queen Latifa, John C Riley, and many many more. potcast links Sound Cloud: https://soundcloud.com/user-486718360 iTunes: itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/amat… Stitcher: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/redford-ray/amateu... Twitter: https://twitter.com/Amateur_Critics E-mail: amateurmoviecritics2016@gmail.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=5510083 Red: @Redford_Ray Peter: @zenzooma Peter's Trailer corner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzikIwPPle0

DOWNLOAD: PSB Ep. 52 “PICK UP!” 52 Pick Up – get it? Tonight, Ferg and I sing, dance, and curse our ways into your hearts with another incredible display of pure entertainment. We also get a visit from Mr. John C. Riley! Enjoy!  

Mother of Dragons gets it on with Han? Me Kong no like John C Riley! John Wick vs. Deadpool. #EPIC#LocalHaul? it a shorty but a goody. Stick it in your ears, but not too far. We are not responsible for ear hole damage... that we know of.

On This episode we sit down, and shoot the breeze. At the table as we talk about recent film news. Things like a possible live action Pokemon Movie, Will Ferrell and John C. Riley in an Upcoming Holmes and Watson movie, The new tease photo of Superman's black suit, and the newest Rogue One trailer. Also the crew talks about the most recent shows and movies they have watched. Josh and Hawk give quick reviews of Sausage Party and Sing Street. Featured song this week is "Drive It Like You Stole It" which is in the movie Sing Street. All rights to the song goes to the respective owners of the song and film. As always, Watch, and Explore with us.

The film Tale of Tales is a fantastical interweaving of fairytales, based on a collection of stories published by the 17th Century poet Gianbattista Basile. It stars Salma Hayek, Toby Jones, Vincent Cassel and John C Riley and is directed by Matteo Garrone, who previously made Gomorrah. Larushka Ivan-Zadeh reviews.Playwright Mike Bartlett, who won Olivier Awards for his plays King Charles III and Bull, discusses his new play Wild, based on an Edward Snowden-like character who faces the consequences of leaking thousands of classified documents about US operations at home and abroad.Charlotte Mullins reviews the exhibition of drawings by 19th Century spiritualist Georgiana Houghton at the Courtauld Gallery in London. Layers of watercolours and gouache, painted, she believed, under the influence of a spirit, Houghton's work has long been neglected. Now her abstract works have been reexamined as precursors of the work of artists such as Kandinsky and Mondrian. Suburra portrays a dark and rain-soaked Rome, where mafia families plot to turn the city's waterfront into the next Las Vegas. The scheme involves shady deals with politicians, the Vatican and warring organised crime gangs. Director Stefano Sollima explains why he is drawn to the underworld of Italy and why he thinks Italian film is enjoying a renaissance.Presenter: Kirsty Lang Producer: Elaine Lester.

We’ve got our bags backed and we’ve boarded the green park service buses en route to Jarden, Texas, to take in the sights of the season two premiere of “The Leftoves”, “Axis Mundi”. Support Bald Move:  Amazon  |  Club Bald Move Pre-historic births, John C. Riley camping on a column, the slaughter of goats, bird resurrection, firemen burning down houses, shocking “Perfect Stranger” and “Family Matters” tie ins… this episode met and exceeded our weirdness expectations and left us wanting more. And it wouldn’t be a “The Leftovers” podcast with out some bark at the moon crazy theories and speculation, some from us, some from you the fellow fan. Please, enjoy! Leave Us A Review Join the discussion:  Email  |  Forums  |  Facebook  |  Twitter  

We’ve got our bags backed and we’ve boarded the green park service buses en route to Jarden, Texas, to take in the sights of the season two premiere of “The Leftoves”, “Axis Mundi”. Support Bald Move:  Amazon  |  Club Bald Move Pre-historic births, John C. Riley camping on a column, the slaughter of goats, bird resurrection, firemen burning down houses, shocking “Perfect Stranger” and “Family Matters” tie ins… this episode met and exceeded our weirdness expectations and left us wanting more. And it wouldn’t be a “The Leftovers” podcast with out some bark at the moon crazy theories and speculation, some from us, some from you the fellow fan. Please, enjoy! Leave Us A Review Join the discussion:  Email  |  Forums  |  Facebook  |  Twitter  

Nick Borror (a.k.a. Snakehead) is the bassist for rock band Index Case, Tool tribute act; Saturn Ascends, and one third of Party! Party!: Ultimate Karaoke Band. He has played in numerous bands since the mid 90's including: Feathers are Beautiful, By the Beard of Zeus, Films of John C. Riley, and Taciturn to name a few. Safe to say the he's been around the block a time or two. In the conclusion of our conversation; we hit on his joining veteran rock outfit Index Case and what his experiences taught him, favorite show memories, time in other bands, attempting to work office jobs within music, making his career as a professional musician, the what's and how's that determines his value, and a lot more.

Nick Borror (a.k.a. Snakehead) is the bassist for rock band Index Case, Tool tribute act; Saturn Ascends, and one third of Party! Party!: Ultimate Karaoke Band. He has played in numerous bands since the mid 90's including: Feathers are Beautiful, By the Beard of Zeus, Films of John C. Riley, and Taciturn to name a few. Safe to say the he's been around the block a time or two. In this first half of our conversation; we bullshit and reminisce on past hi jinks, talk about his early musical inclinations, early bands in Norwalk, jazz background, improvisational noise, a little on his time in Feathers are Beautiful, and a lot of randomness.

Welcome back aboard the good ship Ready Player 2! This week, with the continued absence f the ships plank (Lewis) we have again drafted in Mr. John C Riley who has been spending a healthy ammount of time at PAX East and has all the goodies to fill us in on! Also: Our run down of all the good stuff we've ben playing this week. Upcoming game releases. The TOP 3, BABY! (There's a comma there. It's not the top 3 babies... That'd be wierd) Discussion Time: The Price of Games Games we waffle about this week include: The Wolf Among Us The Walking Dead Diablo 3: Reaper of Souls FTL Trials: Fusion Demon Gaze Dark Souls 2 (SCREEEEEEEE) Daylight Child of Light Enjoy! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

In which Josh and Keith catch up over the few podcast-less weeks. Keith declares a death-feud on Josh for his dismissal of the talents of John C. Riley. Learn about the best restaurant encounter EVER; there has been Godzilla vs. Mecha-Godzilla, there has been Cain vs. Abel, there has Freddy vs. Jason. Now there is [...]

Daniel's favourite person, Kayla, discusses the finer points of Wreck It Ralph and the Toronto clubbing scene among other things for a delightful episode of Let's Discuss Films.