Podcasts about Ramirez

Intro: Boz deserves a seat at the table, life coaches, let's be directLet Me Run This By You: Gina versus plots - is it just ADD? Interview: We talk to Kate Dugan about living in Morocco, her playwriting program,  Sandy Shinner, Victory Gardens, shooting yourself in the foot, being ready or not to take advantage of opportunities, Outliers, regret, Sandra Delgado, the Bad Boyfriend years, Austin Film Festival, Ola Rotimi, Actor's Training Center, Meisner, Erica Daniels, Bikram yogaFULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited): 1 (8s):And Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? Not a whole hell of a lot. I mean, I'm, I feel I'm right. I just real, really excited to like level up my, my work life game. Like, it doesn't even mean that I, it just means that, like, I actually feel like an adult, like I just feel at 47 right now.1 (55s):I'm 47. I feel at 47. Like I'm ready. Oh girl. Wait, am I 40? No, I had a birthday. October four. Yeah. You turned 40 you're you're you're desperate to be older apparently. Oh, I've been telling people 47. Okay. So what year were you born? 75, but I'm terrible at math for 46 years. Okay. So what was I saying about being the wrong age? Oh, I just feel like at 46, right? That's my age at 46. I am finally ready to get a job, like, okay. I need a writing job, like a, B a real job, a real job of like, of like, I feel like I finally deserve, I just, I'm starting to feel like I finally deserve a seat at the table.1 (1m 47s):I love that. Yeah, I definitely do. Yeah. I mean, I just do deserve it, but like the world needs for you to have that seat at the table. Thank you. And I finally feel like that is a possibility, you know, it's interesting. And I was going to ask you about this. So there are all these Clem coaches in Los Angeles. Oh, that's funny. I was going to ask you if something about coaches, but go ahead. Okay, great. So, so God bless him and I can just see everyone is really trying to earn a living, right? So like, everyone I meet is trying to help. I know a lot of hustlers, right?1 (2m 28s):So coaches now have this language. It's fantastic. First time a coach uses language with me. I thought it was so cool. And I was so special. They all fucking use this language. Good ones, bad ones, whatever. Okay. So they get to the part. I had a free introductory session with a woman who was wonderful, nothing wrong with her. I'm talking about specific coaching language around payment and charging people talking about the fee. Okay. So therapists my in my, you know, the way it was, well, I also worked for a social service agency. So I could like just people please, my way out of it and say, well, the agency charges this, you know, all of this. Okay.1 (3m 8s):But for all the people I've seen as therapists, they're pretty straightforward. They're like, my fee is 180 an hour. This is how much your copay would. I looked up your insurance, whatever coaches have a whole nother situation where they say things like, I don't usually do this. This is what they say more than one coach say this to me. I don't usually do this, but I'm going to do something I don't normally do, which is I'm gonna let you set your fee. How much is this worth to you?2 (3m 36s):Oh God. Oh fuck you. What kind1 (3m 39s):Of invest?2 (3m 40s):$7 and 50 cents.1 (3m 42s):What kind of investment are you willing to make in your future? Whatever, whatever they get. And then2 (3m 51s):If you low ball it, it's like, well, I guess you're not recommend it to your future,1 (3m 54s):Right. Or, and you must not value. You must not yet. Right? You must not think that you're abundant enough to bring it the way. So the first time someone said this to me, I was like, this is brilliant. Like I totally, and I bought in and I was like, and I, and, and I didn't know. I was like, okay, you know, $80 a session. And then she later, and then we did that for a while later, she told me that she charges like $2,000 for, oh my God. Like a packet. And I was like, what? Okay, so right. Okay. This person did not do this the other day. I had a free introductory session. And she said that, you know, when she's a woman of color and I really adore her, but it was the same language.1 (4m 38s):And it's not, it's what they're trained to say. And so I just am, so I was so naive. I thought this was like such a cool thing. And now I'm like, wait, everyone's using the same thing, which is, I'm going to let you set your fee to tell me how much you are invested in yourself. And I'm like, wait, that's manipulative. Just set your fucking fee. And if I just said fan, and if I don't pay it, I don't pay it. And we don't work together because otherwise2 (5m 7s):You're setting up the road. I mean, setting up the dynamic where somebody is going to feel resentful, right? Like if, if you're the coach and you're not charging what you, what you think you're. I mean, what about that? Why wouldn't you turn it back on them and say like, well, I really rely upon providers to tell me what they think they're worth by having an established fee. I mean, this is, it's so crazy. It's, it's like saying actually I've had this before with, I can't think maybe babysitters, like how much you charge. Well, whatever you feel comfortable with, I don't know what to do with that. Like, I mean, I feel comfortable paying you nothing. Does that mean that's what you want to,1 (5m 48s):Right? This is what we get in trouble with when, whenever there's a barter situation as well. Like I remember, oh my God, my dad is a anyway. I remember a psychologist getting into huge trouble at a friend, my dad's friend for bartering with therapy.2 (6m 7s):Oh my God. Like, make me homemade tofu or something like1 (6m 11s):Similar, like out, like you do my yard work. I'll do. I mean, I mean, like you get into trouble. It leads to trouble. I think it's better to be out of vagueness, set your fee and not, and just say, this is my fee. And if someone wants to have a conversation about the fee and do you lower it, and then you have a further conversation, whether you decide to lower it or not is up to you. But like, yeah, I don't like this, this,2 (6m 39s):No. And let's just be direct. I mean, this is another problem that we have, like with just, I don't know, globally with communication. I just feel like people are so darn indirect and it doesn't help. I'm not, I'm not suggesting that like, I can't use more, you know, finesse or be half softer or whatever. But like at the end of the day, I just want to know what it is. You're trying to say to me, you know, and I don't want to guess about it because I'm going to guess wrong. And then you're going to feel a type of way about it. And it's unnecessary.1 (7m 12s):It's unnecessary. And I do, you know, as much as, as much as I, I always think back, I had a therapist at the, at Austin Riggs in Massachusetts and Stockbridge and Dr. Craig Pierce. Right. And he, it was interesting. I wanted to call him Dr. Craig. And he was like, no, that is not my name. And, and I was like, this guy is such a douche, but really he was setting a boundary saying, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not your friend. I'm actually not your dad. I'm not your, this isn't, we're working. We're doing serious work here. And it's either Craig or Dr. Pierce, but you can't. And at the time I was like 21 or something. I don't know what I was, but I thought what a douche, but now I'm like, oh, he actually was, was trying to help me.2 (8m 1s):Let's just get this out of the way. This is how I expect to be referred to this is how much I expect to be paid. My thing about coaches recently is I feel like everybody is doing this group delusion about, like, we can't go to therapy. So we have to say, I mean, we could pay more for a coach than we might for a therapist. We could be more revealing with a coach that we were therapists. It's just turned into the stigma of like, well, I don't want to go to therapy, but you know, I want to have a coach. And the problem with that is it's so wildly unregulated.1 (8m 34s):Yes,2 (8m 34s):Exactly. If anybody can call themselves a coach,1 (8m 37s):Right. And even this, this coach that I saw was like, yeah, it's wild Lynn regulated. And I understand that, you know, so, so there are some, you know, weird coaches and she's lovely and she's trying to make a living. The other thing that is so clear to me is everyone is trying to make a living. So there is right. Everyone's trying, I give them points for trying, like you she's trying to have a coaching business. So, so right. I don't fault her for it, but I did. I was like, so shocked that the language, I was like, oh, here we go. She's going to say the exact thing that this other coach said. So, duh, there's all kinds of like classes that for free structure that could the coaches taste.1 (9m 24s):Are you going to see her again? I mean, I'm not, no, no, no, no, no. I told her, I was like, you know, I'm just really not in a position to do coaching right now. And I'm not, I have a therapy. I have a new therapist. Let me just pay the therapist who told me what our fee was. So it was interesting. The other thing that I think was interesting is like I took, the reason I met this coach was I took a workshop on a free workshop on imposter syndrome, which is another like thing that people are really throwing around now is imposter syndrome. And self-sabotage those kinds of phrases. So I took an imposter syndrome workshop, lovely workshop. And then they said, you know, we're going to have a raffle and see who gets a free coaching session.1 (10m 5s):Well, we all, did. We all won the RAF. I mean,2 (10m 14s):Oh my God. I mean, is everything a play Like a performance piece in Los Angeles?1 (10m 24s):Yeah, it is. It is. And it's so, it's so funny, but like, so yeah, I was talking to my friend, I'm like, who went to the workshop? I'm like, oh, I won the I wasn't coaching says, she goes, so did I? And then I talked to someone else who I met when I networked with like soda. I was like,2 (10m 40s):I really respect how much it seems like people in LA are devoted to self-improvement. I really, really respect that in a way that I just feel like people out here aren't or if they are, they don't talk about it. Maybe it's what it is. But it does seem, it does seem like people in LA are either they're on a health kick or a mental health kick or they're, you know, getting sober or I just feel like there's a lot of, there's a lot of1 (11m 5s):Types here.2 (11m 8s):And I appreciate the fact that everybody talks about that openly. Because if, if people are into that stuff around here, they don't talk about it. So I ended up feeling like, you know, I'm a weirdo.1 (11m 19s):I feel like it's like, like literally like old money versus new money. I swear to God it's like old, old paradigms versus new paradigms. And like, yeah, it's out in the open here, everyone's on some kick, but at the same time, it's also lessened because everybody's talking about it all the time and it becomes like the, like a F like a farce, like not sacred in any way. It's like,2 (11m 47s):Yeah. And I bet there's a lot of people who are doing the most, like in terms of self-help and they're just still the biggest, or they're just lying to themselves about the fact that they're, they feel like they're getting better, but they're really just haven't changed at all. Yeah. I mean, I think that like, living anywhere is a problem. Well, let me get out of here. I feel like, wow, you can really feel the Puritan vibe. I mean, it's yes. You really it's like, we don't talk about feelings. We, we talk about things on the surface. We don't reveal, you know, very much about ourselves. Wow. Yeah. Keep everything. It's all, it's very buttoned up.2 (12m 27s):Wow. When I first moved here, I really appreciated that, you know, I've done some wild swings geographically, like yeah. Growing up in Sacramento was kind of one sort of thing unto itself that doesn't relate that much to California. Yeah. And then going to Chicago was like, oh, okay. I like this. These people are really down to earth. You know, then I got kind of sick of that. And then I moved to back to California, to the bay area. And I really was into that for awhile. And then I felt like, oh my God, this is all. So this is all bullshit. Like talking about everybody was an imposter. I felt like everybody was low key. So aggro. And then just this hippie, you know, talking about free level the time.2 (13m 8s):And then we moved to New York and I was like, oh, people will just get right to the point here. I really appreciate that. And I never got tired of that, but then we moved here and I thought, oh, this is new England. This is what the pilgrims they've decided a way to be. And it's very buttoned up and they haven't changed in, you know, 300 years. For, you know, have like a little ideas folder in my notes where I just make it little snippets of ideas and write them down. And I've had like six or seven that I realized are all circling around the same idea, which is, I want to have a movie or some, or some type of a script where it's a superhero, but the superhero, their power is that they can interact through some type of magic.2 (14m 8s):They can intervene in somebody else's life when they're making bad decisions. This is sort of romantic coaching and like, Hmm, maybe it's virtual reality, but they, they can kind of put themselves into the body of the person who's making the bad decisions and then help them. You know, it's like, it's basically like the therapist having none of the barriers to, you know, wellness or whatever, and just kind of getting right in there at the same time as this is a comment about how we look to other people to tell us how to behave. Anyway, the superheroes name is psyche and I love it. And, and I'm, I'm it, I'm it.2 (14m 49s):I want to kind of continue with this idea, but I am woefully terrible with plot, as I think we've talked about before. I don't know if you're talking about the podcast before and it's such a, it makes perfect sense that my given my own psychology, that plot would be the hardest thing,1 (15m 11s):Because more that,2 (15m 13s):Well, my, my mother is the first person to tell you, she's never done anything with a plan. She's always just reacted to whatever has come her way. In fact, the idea of like having a goal and working towards it was literally something I never learned until I met my husband. Wow. When like a week, a day. And he was like, what are you going to do today? And I said, oh, I think I'm going to sit out in the sun. And he said, what? I thought you were trying to be an actress. I thought you were like, well, you don't have any time to sit down and do anything. Like you have a goal. And that, and that's been my thing is like, I, I have these vague undefined or have had vague undefined goals yet that in some ways I'm working towards, but because there's no sort of master plan or not a conscious one, if don't know how to get from a, to B to C I know everything about what it looks like as you're traveling from a to B to C, I had to describe it and everything like that.2 (16m 10s):But as far as charting a course of like, this is where I'm starting, and this is where I'm going to end up. That's pretty new to me. And I feel like that's why I struggle with clot. Cause I just don't have like a lot of idea of how something unfolds.1 (16m 26s):Seriously. Literally just ADHD. Could that be,2 (16m 30s):Oh, maybe you have ADHD.1 (16m 33s):Did we talk about2 (16m 33s):This? I have add1 (16m 36s):Or add. So if you have that, this is when I talk to writers who have add that this is their exact situation. Oh, okay. Excellent. With dialogue, excellent. With everything except the actual plot pointing to a, to B, to C you just, I think you just need a class in some add meds. Like I'm serious. I, I don't think, Hey, this is not a, this is, this could be a very practical thing. So, so my father had some big problems, but was a brilliant man in a lot of ways, right? His dissertation, he could see the whole thing where it was going to end up.1 (17m 16s):He knew what he wanted people to feel when he read it. He knew he could not write the thing. So my mother ended up writing it for him. Please don't take your degree away possibly anyway, because he couldn't do the, the actual thing. So I I'm wondering, just like my thing was kind of practical of finding a coworking space and not getting a divorce kind of a situation like yours is literally like, could be a physiological response to too much stimuli going on and how to get to, to your vision. So, and maybe2 (17m 54s):I need a coach.1 (17m 56s):Well, Gina funny, you should bring that up because I was going to say to you, how much is it worth for? You know, I tried to tell you as being your coach on our pocket,2 (18m 6s):That would have been so slick. That would have been like, you're like, I, wasn't going to mention this to you, but I'm actually becoming okay.1 (18m 12s):I'm actually a coach now. So anyway, that is my 2 cents. When you start saying, when you start talking about that, I was like, wait a second. This is not a psychological problem. I don't think,2 (18m 25s):Okay. I mean, you know what? That sounds right to me.1 (18m 29s):Well, it makes a lot of work. You're not lazy and you're not, it's not like you don't have ambition. That's not true because you we've talked a lot on the podcast about how, like having some sense of power is really important to you. Maybe not fame, but power, the power that comes with that. So I'm like, all right, so that's not someone that has no ambition, right? So that's gotta be a different mechanism in the brain. That's not connecting in some way because you're also a people pleaser. So if someone, so my guess is if I w I would wonder if we did an experiment, like if you were in a class, right. And the class person was the teacher, the person in authority was like, and you trusted this person or mentor, whoever writing group, whatever the higher power is in that moment said, she said to you, Gita, you must do, you know, act one must be written by this date.1 (19m 18s):I wonder if you do it,2 (19m 20s):I would, I totally would. In fact, that's a part of me has been like, should I try to get into an MFA program? I don't think that's the answer. I class first just take a class,1 (19m 31s):The script anatomy, there's all these classes that like, that we can talk about later, but like take a class. I know I should have taken a class and not enrolled in an MFA program. Like that was what I, I mean, it was,2 (19m 44s):Can I tell you one of my favorite slash least favorite things in the world is when I have a big problem. And the answer is like, something really is. I both love and hate that. I hate it because I think, wow, why didn't I think of that? And why have I spent so much time just like ruminating and cogitating and wringing my hands about something that has like a pretty straightforward answer. Yeah.1 (20m 6s):And a lot of times, a lot of times us, I think kids that weren't really, for whatever reason, didn't get what they needed, emotionally, make all these things. Our brain works overtime to try to figure things out when this solution, like, I remember, like when I started having panic attacks, I thought I had schizophrenia. I thought I went to the doctor. He's like, you have a panic disorder, take this pill. And I was like, what? Yeah.2 (20m 31s):How could it be that easy? How could it be? How could it be? I feel like in that if I were in your shoes, I would think, no, no, no, I don't just have something that everybody else has. I have a truly unique, right. Is that what you were feeling?1 (20m 44s):Yeah. I thought I was going to end up in a state run nursing and I had a panic disorder. It was so I couldn't, and I think it gets wrapped up in shame and wrapped up and I should be able to, I could be, you know, all that shit, but yeah, it, it, it was like, he was like, no, no, no, no, you have something called a panic disorder. It's in this book and it was a DSM. He was like, it's in this book. And he read the, the stuff, the criteria. And I was like, I had that. He was like, no shit. Which is why I'm telling you to take this pill, the Zoloft. And I was like, wow, it didn't even cross my mind. The other thing is, nobody tells you about it. Like a lot of the struggle that we have, I think at, or at least that I have is internal. Right. So I don't, I'm not sharing it with people, which is why I think the podcast is good because maybe someone's listening to the podcast going, oh fuck.1 (21m 29s):Maybe I just have a panic disorder or maybe I have add, or I need a class instead of my life is over.2 (21m 36s):I'm terrible. I'm fundamentally incapable of getting any better. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Well, thank you for that. What a gift1 (21m 42s):You gave me? Well, yeah, that's just what came forward. I'm like, wait, this is not a psychological weirdo, psychological pathological emotional problem.0 (21m 55s):Well,4 (22m 0s):Today on the podcast, we're talking to Kate, Dougan a playwriting major from DePaul theater school who currently lives in Morocco, where she teaches English. She is also a performer and has some interesting stories about her road from wanting to be a performer to deciding, to be a writer. So please enjoy our conversation with Kate Dougan2 (22m 27s):Oh my God. You haven't changed you one1 (22m 30s):Tiny bit. Let's say.3 (22m 34s):Thanks. Wow. Nice to see you girls. Do you guys look the same? I can't believe it. 30 years almost, right?2 (22m 41s):Yeah. Don't say it like that.3 (22m 43s): sorry. It's been 30 years since I graduated from high school. 25, since I graduated from college.1 (22m 53s):It's a long2 (22m 54s):You go by Kate.3 (22m 55s):Yeah. I go by Kate now. I grew up from Katie. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah.2 (23m 3s):Well, Kate Dougan congratulations used for five to theater3 (23m 7s):School. I did. I did.2 (23m 10s):You are now in of all places, Morocco, what the heck's going on in Morocco?3 (23m 15s):I'm teaching a high school here at an American high school. Yeah. My husband is Moroccan. So that's how we ended up here. We met in Chicago, worked together and in 2018. Yeah. We just decided it was, you know, he, his parents are, you know, getting a little older and he had not lived in Morocco for about 20, 25 years. And so he decided, you know, he wanted maybe try to come home for a little while. And so he got a job at an American high school. He's a teacher, he's a math teacher. And so we came and then I, I started sort of in one job that didn't really work for me.3 (24m 2s):Cause I initially thought like I was coming to teach theater. Always. The reality is never quite the same as what everybody says is gonna happen. And so, but when we got here, so I tried to teach a theater class, it didn't school wasn't quite ready for it. Then I sort of morphed into teaching English as a second language. And then last year during, well, during 20 19, 20, 20, I got my teaching accreditation to teach high school English. So I teach English language and literature. So yeah. Yeah. How cool do you like it? I do, actually.3 (24m 43s):I like it a lot. I, you know, everybody says the teaching is the hardest job and in many ways, teaching really is the hardest job. Like you, it's a lot of work and it's kind of, it's almost like doing like five shows a day, but you have to write all of your own material and learn all of your own material. And you know, it, it, you have to sort of, you have to really be ready for like a group of high school kids. I mean, these are, you know, they, they want to be engaged and they want to be entertained and they want to, you know, and if you can do those things and talk to the kids and be real with them, then you know, it works.3 (25m 28s):And on days that you're not quite up for it, it's a little tough. But yeah, I do like it a lot. I mean, I think that if you like to be in the room with the kids, then, then you you're, you're going to win, you know? Yeah. There's, I think that there's unfortunately, a lot of teachers who don't necessarily like children. And so you kind of questioned that sometimes. I'm sure we've all had experiences as students in that kind of situation. But yeah, I liked the kids. I liked being with high school kids, you know, they're alive and interested and you know, they haven't given up yet.3 (26m 11s):It's true. There, there, I read something to them the other day about, yeah, they're not dead yet. They're still alive. So that's, that's what I like about it.1 (26m 21s):The other thing I was going to say is that my, my mom was a teacher and she used to say the first year of teaching, like full-time was the hardest year of her life. And she like cried every day after school and it was the most rewarding. And so I, yeah, yeah.3 (26m 39s):I mean, my first year was 2019 or 20. So 2019 to 2020, I was doing my accreditation and I was teaching part-time and that was March, 2020, obviously it was all online. And then September, we started back, it was my first year teaching full time. And, you know, we had one class that was online and then everybody, you know, the kids had the option to be online if they wanted to. So there was one class online and then there were students in school and yeah, you're just trying to, you know, learn, figure out what you're doing and teach yourself the material and, you know, stay alive and handle whatever it was.3 (27m 20s):It was, it was a very stressful year. Last year I got to the, I got to June and I was really tired and really stressed out. And I just, you know, the good part of that is I have declared this year. I will never let myself get into that state again, you know, whatever I have to do to maintain my balance is really important to me. And so far it seems to be working. I I'm feeling much more on top of things this year, so. Oh, good. Yeah. Yeah.2 (27m 55s):So beef, let's talk about the period of time you decided to go to theater school. You did, you caught up on the east coast.3 (28m 7s):Yeah. I, well, not exactly. I'm from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I know. I always thought of it as east coast. And then years later I was like, I think Pittsburgh is really Midwest. Like, I mean, it's, it's like this close to Ohio where I was from was like this close to West Virginia. So there's a whole other element going on. So it almost, you know, it is east coast, I guess, officially, but it has sort of a Midwest sort of feel like blue collar, you know, town, but yeah, so I grew up in Pittsburgh. I, I don't know.3 (28m 48s):Do you guys just want me to do grow2 (28m 49s):Performing and I do high school plays3 (28m 52s):And stuff. Okay. So not, not as much as I would've liked. I knew from a very young age that I did want to go into theater. We, we lived up the hill from a small college Washington and Jefferson college. I'm from Washington, Pennsylvania. And you know, they built a new like art center one year. And I remember going to see my first theater show there and it had just opened. And I think it was the Rainmaker. I think my dad knew the guy, the place Starbuck, and I just, you know, like, so we want to see the play and it was just the whole experience of it, you know, going to the theater and sitting in the audience and the lights and the people.3 (29m 36s):And I just remember like when the lights went down at the, at the end, I was just like, that's what I wanna do. I wanna do this, you know, how old were you? I was eight actually. So I, yeah, it got me at an early age. I wish I had gotten set on something else a little bit. But1 (30m 0s):Why Did the theater break your heart?3 (30m 5s):Ah, did the theater break? My heart? Well, I mean, it's, you know, it's, everybody's journey is different. Yeah. I mean, in some ways it's not that it broke my heart now. I feel like I just wish I had no, of course. I mean, I wouldn't change anything. I wouldn't change the trajectory. I wouldn't change that love, you know, like that feeling. But I think just like when you experience something like that, it's such a young age, like your mind gets like really set on that thing. And like, I think it's important to grow and change and you know, obviously I've done that and I've done other things.3 (30m 46s):It just, I don't know. No, because I don't wish it was really different. So I, but I, you know, we all have our moments, right. I'm sure. Of course.1 (30m 57s):Yeah. That's what this whole podcast is about where we were like, what the fuck was that? And theater broke my heart over and over again. I thought it was going to be one thing or the business and I, it was not that thing. So I, for me, it's been a off and on heartbreaking experience with the theater. And that doesn't mean that there hasn't been intense love to, you know what I mean? Like, I think it's all part of the same, but yeah. So you, you, from a young age, you were like, you saw Rainmaker and you were like, that's it? Yeah.3 (31m 25s):So that's what I want to do. And so, I mean, but like I said, it was a small town there wasn't like a whole lot going on there. I never really took any acting classes or anything until I was in high school. You know, I went like there was a, there was an acting teacher at my high school. And I just remember like going to her class and being like super excited to finally like, get to do this thing. And like, you know, she asked everybody to kind of give a spiel like about what they want to do. And so I talked about it. I was like, this is really what I want to do with my life. I'm really excited about it. I, I just, you know, this is it for me.3 (32m 6s):And, and I just remember her, like, it wasn't necessarily that day, but like at some point she just kind of looked at me and she was like, oh, you're the one that wants to be an actress. And it was like that first, like, I'm sure you guys have experienced this. It was like that first experience of like, oh, I guess like me being excited about it, isn't necessarily going to get people to be positive with me. There was certain that there was an element of bitterness, I guess, which I think happens to people, you know, and I think it happens justifiably.3 (32m 53s):And so I think, you know, it's very important to me that I don't become bitter that I, and I'm glad I haven't, but I, I felt it was a very, it was like that first experience, like, okay, this is somebody that I, I, this is something I want to do. And this is somebody that can help me. And she was just not very enthusiastic about being helpful to me, you know, like, yeah. Who knows I was, it was kind of a weird year for me. So maybe I, you know, wasn't a very good student or something, or maybe she,1 (33m 25s):She, she, that's a shitty you you're probably right on. No, no, because I know because I've done that to people. Actually, I, I feel like I've dampened peoples. I do this with my husband all the time where I rain on his parade. And she rained on your parade a little bit. I'm not saying it's not that she doesn't have good reason to rain grades, but she did. And that, that is sort of, we hear it a lot. So I would think for someone to either either blatantly or inadvertently reign on a youngster's parade in terms of their artistic dreams.3 (33m 57s):So like at high school, I wasn't really that, like, I, I think I, we did like a play for my English class or something. So I don't know. I, I try, like I was in speech and debate and I went to one meet. And let me tell you like the power of the mind. Like I got laryngitis that day. Like I got laryngitis on the bus on the way to the meet and couldn't talk all day. And then on the bus on the way home I was able to speak. And so, you know, I think, you know, there's, yeah. I mean, that's a, that's a whole other . I mean, does that mean you1 (34m 37s):Didn't keep going with speech and debate3 (34m 39s):Or you had no, I don't think I did. I don't really remember. I obviously it was not a huge part of my life because I think at some point I was like, okay, this is not the person that's going to help me. I'm not getting feeling very positive vibes here. And so I'm gonna try to, you know, do other things. So then I started taking acting classes.1 (34m 60s):Did she wait to interrupt? Did she run the speech and debate thing too?3 (35m 3s):Yes, she did. Oh, no.1 (35m 5s):So that's, I mean, there you go. I mean, that's3 (35m 8s):How my mom1 (35m 9s):Running.3 (35m 11s):Yeah. Who knows. Anyway, so then I started going to like taking acting classes in downtown Pittsburgh. There was the civic light opera, and they had like an academy of, it was musical theater, but I just took straight acting classes. I was never like really a singer or anything like that. And that was a really positive experience for me. I had a great teacher, Jill, and, you know, we did a lot of scene study and she was, she was the opposite, you know, she was a very positive person, very loving and sweet. And, you know, really, you made me feel good about what I was doing and what I could do.3 (35m 52s):So, you know, there are those people as well that, you know,2 (35m 57s):Who suggested that you could pursue it for college.3 (36m 5s):I mean, I think it was never, for me, it was just never a question like, but I long story, I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't in the acting program at DePaul, I was in the play. I was in the wait. I was in the, I was in the playwriting program. Yeah.2 (36m 27s):Why do I remember you as being in class with me? But I feel like I remember you as being one of the actors. I remember seeing you on Steve.3 (36m 38s):No, I, I, I doubt it. I, I, unless2 (36m 42s):Were you in a play onstage?3 (36m 44s):I don't think so. No. I mean, unless it was like some kind of workshop for one of my plays or something like that, but no,2 (36m 54s):I mean, do you remember me at all? I3 (36m 56s):Do remember. Yeah. I remember you guys. I remember you completely. I just, so I think I graduated. I was a year older than you guys. I think. When did you graduate? I graduated in 96. Okay. So yeah, one year older. You will, so, okay, go ahead.2 (37m 14s):Awesome. Yeah, that happened. What the hell?3 (37m 19s):Well, let me, let me dial back to, to where, cause you asked me if my teacher wanted me to go to college and for me, like there was just no other, I was going to school for theater and there was no stopping me. You know, it was funny. I've listened to some of your podcasts and, and I listened to Caitlin Kiernan's and she was just like, you know, I was 18. Like, what do you, you know, like what did I think? I don't know, but I just, this is what my mind was set on. So, so I'm sure she, she, I remember her telling me that that acting teacher, she was like of all of my, you know, she put me aside and this one other girl, Heather, who I think has actually done pretty well. I think she lives in LA and you know, there's not a lot of TV work.3 (38m 0s):And she was like, you know, she's like of my students. I think you guys have real potential to make something in this business. So she was very positive. So then I started auditioning. I auditioned for probably not enough schools. I should've heard DePaul and like Carnegie Mellon and I think some other, a couple of other schools. And so then I kind of had my mind set in Chicago. My brother lived in Chicago for a couple of years and I had gone to visit him. And I just really like fell in love with the city. And I always knew that I wanted to go to school in a city. So I kind of got my mind set on Chicago. I was like, well, if I get in the car to Carnegie Mellon, I'm from Pittsburgh obviously, but I didn't.3 (38m 45s):So then I auditioned for DePaul and I didn't get in my first, I didn't get in. And so I decided to take a year off and try again, which my dad was not super happy about, but I just had my mindset. I was like, no, I'm going to take year off. And then I'm going to try it again. I'm going to audition again. And that's it. And it ended up being, you know, I think taking your off was a good thing for me. I auditioned again and I didn't get in again. And so, you know, it's funny, like listening to these stories of you guys, like, and all the struggles that you went through and it's like, well, you know, well, at least you, you got in what's true.3 (39m 33s):Like there are different struggles. Yeah. There are different struggles for sure. But then so, and I, when I didn't get in the second time, I was just, I don't know. I think I was just set on Chicago. I was kind of set on DePaul. They'd offered me a place in theater studies program. And so I took it and then I, I decided when I was there to do join the playwriting program, and this is 1996 or 1992. And I was like, at that point I was like, literally like the only person in the playwriting program. My first year, there was like one person who was like a sophomore.3 (40m 14s):I think it was like the second or third year that Dean Corrin was there. He had just been taken on to start this program. And so, yeah. And then as I went through like a few other people joined like Diane Herrera and I think Adam Matthias was also in the writing program. And so while I was there kind of grew a little bit. Yeah. So I, it was, you know, I mean, I don't know. You just want me to keep talking? I feel like2 (40m 51s):I was just ask a question about the theater studies program, because I don't know that we've ever really talked about that program and, and how you just described it, made it sound like that's where people can go to figure out what non-acting thing they want to do in theater.3 (41m 9s):I mean, I think I, to be honest, you know, I mean, let's not kid ourselves college is about making money. Right. For, for most people it's, for-profit, it's private school. I think that they wanted to build the program and yeah. I don't know what it was. I mean, I think I did pretty good on my SATs. My grades were decent and I don't know, maybe my audition was okay. And so it was sort of, yeah, like, you know, they offered it to people like, you know, if you want to come, you're not invited to the acting program, but if you want, you can come to the theater studies program. And so I said, no, the first year, and then the second year I was like, I'm ready to go to school. I mean, sometimes I think I probably would've been better off like going to like a smaller school that didn't necessarily require an audition or something like that, but say levee.3 (41m 57s):Right. And, and so, yeah, I was like, well, I guess I'll do playwriting. And I, I, I mean, I'm glad I did it for many reasons. It was not, it ended up being a really good choice for me. I mean, I think like listening to you guys talk about the competition and, you know, sort of like, I don't do well with rejection. You know, I think you really, I don't, I don't necessarily like love to be the center of attention. And I think like, as an actor or at least to be successful on some level, you have to want that attention.3 (42m 42s):I mean, you guys do, do you feel that you like being the center of attention? She does.1 (42m 49s):Like, I love, I am constantly and mine is, if you listen to the podcast, like we talk about the psychological stuff. Like, I, I still, you know, feel like I wasn't treated right as a kid. So I'm constantly, I'm so transparent about it. I'm constantly trying to get the approval of my mother. Who's dead by the way. So yeah, I, I can say that, like, I want to belong and I want someone to say you are special and I pick you. That's like my dark sort of shadow side. And it always will be for me. I think even if I work through it, I think we all have our shadow sides and that's, and that's mine. And I think it transformed into, oh, maybe if this school likes me, that will give me that sense, but I never got that from DePaul because, you know, one it's that set up for that too.1 (43m 37s):People are bitter and weird and three it's an inside job. Yeah.3 (43m 41s):Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean, I think for me, like part of it was, I am the youngest of four and so I think it was like that craving for attention. Like I totally get what you're saying there. So, I mean, I like to be on stage, but like, I don't necessarily like the auditioning part of it and I don't necessarily, you know, like have to be the center of attention to parties or any of those things. But I did, you know, I really did enjoy, I really do enjoy acting like I, I do like it, but so1 (44m 12s):You, you,3 (44m 12s):You were doing a playwriting BFA. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You did.1 (44m 18s):And your plays got workshopped.3 (44m 21s):Yeah. I mean, you know, the, the program was still very fledgling and I think because, you know, I wasn't in the acting program, you know, I had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder, I think admitted,1 (44m 43s):Wait, I just have to say, like, there's something really fierce about auditioning twice for the program and then going to theater school, studying theater studies, look at your, at a young age to say, you know what? I fucking want to go to school. So I'm going to, I mean, talk about, I, I see it as, you know, I hate calling people brave, cause I think it's kind of sending, but I think it's fierce to say I'm still going to go to this school. I mean, of course you had, I would have a chip on my shoulder so big. I wouldn't go. Yeah. You went and got an education for God's sake in a degree.3 (45m 16s):Yeah. And I, I, I got a really good education, you know, that's part of what was really positive for me. And I'll go back to the question about workshopping in a second. But what was positive for me is that the theater school had this glitch in their, in their system in because the acting students had to take so many classes cause you guys had yoga and movement to music and scene study and whoever knows what else. So like as part of your tuition, you could take up to 24 credits. And so what I did is I then got a really great liberal arts education.3 (45m 57s):I took poetry writing classes. I took like performance of literature. I took video editing. I took intro to film. I took like,1 (46m 10s):We'll do you could do that Kate? Like, how did you figure out like, oh, I have 24 credits. I'm going to use these.3 (46m 15s):I really don't. I don't know that anybody told me, I think I just figured it out at some point. And I was like, okay, well I guess I'm going to get my money's worth and I'm going to go take these other classes and these other schools and learn how to write and learn how to make films and do intro to film and learn, you know? So like I really loved college. I don't, you know, the theater school was, I don't have anything negative to really say about the theater school either. I knew what I was getting into. Like I said, I sort of had that chip on my shoulder to begin with about being part of the theater school about feeling like Jen, like you said, like about feeling like an insider, but you know, all my friends were in the theater school.3 (47m 2s):I, I love theater people. I really enjoyed that experience. But, but part of my good college experience happened outside of it in many ways, just because I kind of took the reins and I was like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have some fun with this and get a good education and, and play. And I, I loved it. I loved school. I loved learning new things and try new things. I even, I even took like a leave of absence from the theater for theater school for one quarter. Cause I did a, an overseas, I went to Ireland for a quarter.3 (47m 43s):So, and to do that, I had to take a leave of absence from the theaters. Yeah. Does that seem familiar? Yeah, probably Kelly was crying because I was supposed to be her roommate, but I never got which Kelly Kelly and Mick Adams. I was when I came back from Ireland, we were supposed to be roommates, but I never called and she just got her own apartments. And then I was like, oh my God, I don't know where I'm going to live. But yeah. So I, you know, anyway, so back to my theater school experience, so was, was positive also for playwriting. I, I don't know. I mean, I, you know, Dean Corrin was great, you know, we took like dramatic criticism we had yeah.3 (48m 30s):You know, another, another theme that I have, you know, listening to your podcast and you guys talked about it a little bit is like self-sabotage or not taking advantage of the opportunities presented to you. I feel like, because I kind of had that chip and I wanted to be an actor. Like I didn't necessarily take advantage of the opportunities, like playwriting opportunities, which came easier of course, because cause that's the way it goes, because if you want something it's not going to be, you know, it's not going to be easy, but if you're kind of, sort of like, well maybe, maybe not then the opportunities roll in, but yeah, like we had a poetry or a playwriting workshop class with Sandy Shinar she worked at victory gardens at the time.3 (49m 18s):Yeah. And she was good friends with Dean and like he had her come in as like a guest teacher one day and we were going to work my play and he'd given it to her and she had read it and, and I was just, I don't know. I, I just was like, oh God, I hate that. I really don't want to work on it. Do we have to do this? Can we do something else? And like how we shoot ourselves in the foot, you know, like what an opportunity really? And because I was insecure and scared, I'm sure like whatever psychological, you know, thing you want to come up with that, that, that we, we do to why, why we do these things for ourselves.3 (50m 1s):So, you know, and I, I had other opportunities like that along the way that I didn't necessarily take advantage of. But1 (50m 8s):Did you pull your play or did you work3 (50m 10s):On it? We didn't work on it. No, because there was somebody else in the class who was much smarter than I was and was like, oh, well here's my play. We can do my play. We can work on mine today. Yeah. I know. That's really that's.1 (50m 26s):I mean, I totally relate. And I think it, it just speaks to many things, but like, you weren't ready for that and that's it. And I, I'm starting to look at things like ready versus not ready versus good and bad. So you just weren't ready to have that experience. And we can look back and, you know, I listened to Gina and I talk to people on and we're like, we blame ourselves for that, but you just simply didn't have the emotional resources to take in that experience. And that sucks. But,2 (51m 1s):And when you're not ready, it, people could say anything to you. That person could have said, we want you to be the new resident playwright, a victory gardens. You would've said, I don't think so.1 (51m 13s):I could've gotten the laryngitis again. Like it it's, we couldn't stop.3 (51m 19s):That's so interesting. I mean, I agree with you. I think you're, I think you're right. And that's, that's hearing it come from you. It, it, it's nice Rather than me saying it to myself or trying to figure out, like, why, why do I do these things to myself?1 (51m 37s):And it's interesting having done all these podcasts, Kate, we see it over and over again. So we have the data to tell you that people have, we've heard like so many people like with these ICTs being offered these things and being like, no, I'm not going to move to LA because you know, I have an apartment in Wrigleyville. Like I'm not going to be a movie star. And people are like, what's the D we all have that. I think that's part of growing up. And I also also think it's part of expecting young people to really handle a lot of things we cannot handle.3 (52m 11s):Yeah. They're one of the books that I, I teach my students is called outliers. Have you guys read it? It's Malcolm Gladwell. And he, you know, there's a section in where he talks about practical intelligence and you know, how some people, the people that are successful, you know, they grow up with a certain family life, or, you know, maybe it's about money. It's about education. It's about these things. But it's also just knowing how to handle yourself in certain situations and knowing how to take advantage of the opportunities that are presented to you. And I think if you aren't, if you don't have that, or you're not taught that it is hard sometimes to, you know?2 (52m 50s):Yeah. And what, I just heard you, I mean, when you said, it's good to hear that from us, that made me think, oh, you've been beating yourself up about this for 25 years to yourself. Why did I squander this opportunity? Which, I mean, whether or not you did it, it's completely human. That, that you might occasionally have that thought, but have you spent a lot of time in, in regret?3 (53m 18s):I mean, I don't think so. I think I don't spend a lot of time in regret. You know, I definitely had moments over the years. I, well, a few years back, I sort of had like a little bit of a, not a breakdown, but like, I think of my midlife crisis started and like my, you know, I have two kids and my daughter was, you know, eight and my son was four and it was just kind of like, you know, you know, when kids are babies, it's just baby, baby, baby, baby. You don't, you don't have time to think about yourself. So who cares? And then like when you start to get back to yourself a little bit, it's just like, okay, I'm, you know, I'm 42 or, you know, whatever, and what have I really done?3 (54m 8s):And you know, what am I doing? And you know, is this, this, this it, I mean, I, I was teaching yoga. So, I mean, that's also a part of my journey. I mean, like I, so when I got out of school, like I did acting for a while, like, I've done some very bad independent films. Do you guys know Sandra Delgado? Oh yeah. Yeah. She, I like, we did a really bad film together in the early two thousands. And, you know, like I did like a horror film and I was like, had some small parts as mother independent films.3 (54m 52s):And, you know, I, I was trying to act and auditioning and auditioning and auditioning and like I did a couple of plays, but it was just never, you know, I just could never get to a certain point. I really just, I would have done theater and crappy theater and whatever, but I just, I couldn't, you know, for whatever reason, you know, I have the, that decade that I called the, the bad boyfriend years, so which we can all relate to on some level, which I, you know, where we all waste a lot of energy on people who don't deserve it. Oh yeah. Yeah. And then, so, so then, yeah, like a few years back, so it was kind of not in a good place.3 (55m 39s):And I was like, okay, well, I guess it's now or never. And I, I finally finished the play, so I went back to writing. Yeah. That's huge. That's awesome. You know, I finally cause I, I was like, okay, I guess if I'm going to try, I guess I gotta try. And, you know, I, I really discovered a few things. I discovered that I like writing. I, I feel good when I'm doing it. You know, there's a lot of positives to it in that way. I finished the play. I, it got, it got into like the second round at the Austin film festival.3 (56m 19s):So that was, yeah, that was pretty cool. I guess, since it was just like my first foray out of doing anything in theater in quite some time, and I had a stage reading in Chicago and then it sort of, you know, petered out after that. I, I was sending it out, sending it out, but no, no, no hits after that. But so, you know, I'm kind of gearing up to write again. So, no, I don't, I don't have, I don't, I haven't been beating myself up about it. I think that, you know, life takes a course and you can only do what you are doing in the time that you're doing it.3 (57m 0s):You only have the information that you have. You only have the life skills that you have. You only have the resources that you have. And so I think regret, I don't waste a lot of time on regret. I have enjoyed listening to the podcast and sort of like you said, Jen, like everybody's story is the same, a little bit. And that, you know, a lot of people who, you know, I've looked up to and had a lot of respect for and were really good actors and good at what they did. It just didn't happen for them. And so that's, that's like, I, yeah.2 (57m 37s):So I'm still just trying to, I'm still trying to wrap my head around why I just remember you as being an acting student, maybe it had to do with that. You were friends with Kelly and maybe because of your friendship with Kelly.3 (57m 54s):Yeah, probably that was it. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was friends with all the apartment three crew. I, yeah.1 (58m 2s):So I mean, I like, I like that even like deeper in my brain, I was like, what if I was taking on your desire to be an actor? I saw you as an actor because it was so strong that you wanted to be an actor. Like, I literally have an image of you on stage, but I actually can't3 (58m 22s):Be somebody else. Yeah. I1 (58m 25s):It's your face. It's really weird. So, anyway,3 (58m 27s):I mean, I guess at one time, like I had a play that maybe I did a stage reading of with Darryl Dickerson at school and maybe some other actors, maybe Kelly was in it. I don't know. But that would have really been like in a classroom. Yeah, yeah, no, I not an actor or, I mean, I am an actor, but none of the theater school. Yeah.2 (58m 54s):So these days, I mean, when you're talking about the work of being an English teacher, it reminded me actually, ironically, just a few days ago, I ran across a notebook that I haven't opened since I was a teacher of social studies and drama. And I re remember that I used to take for social studies. I used to write my lesson like a monologue kind of, and sort of not memorize it exactly, but almost like repeatedly rehearse it because it was not information that I already knew. I was learning the lesson right before I taught it. And teaching is so performative that during that time I was doing theater at the time.2 (59m 35s):But even if I weren't, I think I would have felt fulfilled in a performance way. Do you have that feeling about being a teacher? That it feels like a performance?3 (59m 50s):I guess what I, I do like the exchange of energy, like, like you would get from say a live audience or something like that. I don't know that I necessarily look at it as a performance, but I do feel like, yeah, you, obviously you have to be ready. You have to know what you're going to say. You have to know the material. And like, even if it is you just learning it that day or getting, you know, I feel that exchange, like, I feel good after class, like after talking with the kids and being with the kids and talking at them and, and teaching them, it does feel that way, like a little bit like that exchange of energy that you get from an audience a little bit.3 (1h 0m 35s):Yeah.2 (1h 0m 37s):Do you otherwise feel a kind of a need to do, do you have a need for any other type of creative outlet or your guys you're doing it because you're kind of getting back into3 (1h 0m 48s):My goal is to, yeah. To start writing again, like, I, I don't know how, what your, how you guys write. Like, I don't know what if you're constantly writing all the time or for me it's, it's like, I tend to sort of get inspiration and then work on something, you know, in a, in, in a period of time. Or if I create the discipline, like when I finished this play, I was getting up at like four 30 every day. I was teaching yoga at the time and the kids were, you know, still pretty young. And so I knew that the only way it was ever going to work is if I was disciplined enough to, you know, set that time aside, this is my time, my time to write.3 (1h 1m 33s):And so now, you know, after, like you said, you know, that first year is so hard, so now I'm starting to get my legs again. And I'm hoping to, yeah. Maybe start working on something I have, I've like dabbled in screenwriting before a little bit. So I'm thinking about, maybe I'm getting too into that a little bit.1 (1h 1m 57s):I have a question for you when you took playwriting. So this is interesting because it was such a young program, right. Was there any actually teaching of writing at the theater school, Like how to write a play?3 (1h 2m 12s):You know, it's funny about that. It's funny because I mean, like, I, it feels like we would write and we give it the stuff to Dean and we had deadlines and things like that. And he would give us feedback on it. You know, it's the funny thing is, is like the only, I feel like the only piece of practical writing advice that I ever got, and I, this is nothing against Dean. It's just what I remember. So Dean was awesome. I loved him. Well, we had a visiting playwright from Nigeria all over TIMI. I don't know if you remember him being there. He was there for like one quarter and he basically just like, kind of taught me to, to write a bit, you know, he's like, he's like, you have this scene here.3 (1h 2m 57s):And the guy he's at the cafe and he wants his coffee, but the waitress isn't giving him his coffee. He has to keep asking for his coffee over and over again. And it was just like, oh, you mean, I have to create like a little bit of dramatic tension in the scene, what a revelation. Right?2 (1h 3m 16s):Like it just a Mo create3 (1h 3m 17s):A moment. I felt like, you know, he gave me some real practical advice. It was just like, okay, you just have to, you know, these two people are here and you have to kind of, he wants his coffee and she won't give him his coffee and that's where the comedy comes in. And so, yeah. I don't know. I, I don't know how much, you know, they taught me about writing. I feel like I could have used a little bit of more help, like in practical matters, you know, listening to Kate's thing when you guys all went out for your showcase and that kind of thing. Like if somebody had talked to me more about submitting my work, maybe that would have been helpful.3 (1h 3m 58s):I mean, it's so weird though, to think of it at that time. I mean, I was, we were sending out headshots through the mail. We were sending out work through the mail. I mean, you have to go ,1 (1h 4m 14s):You'd have to go to what was called Kinko's then print out your play and then, and then mail it in an envelope to theaters or drop it off in person.3 (1h 4m 24s):And there was like that, like one place where you could get your headshots downtown, like the one like photography place where you could go and get like your headshots in bulk and you'd have to go pick them up. And like the blue2 (1h 4m 35s):Box. I remember the blue box.3 (1h 4m 37s):Yes. I still box exactly. You know,1 (1h 4m 44s):I think, or2 (1h 4m 45s):Yeah, something like that. So. Okay. So then let's talk about the period between graduating and we're where you are now. So you, well, you said you were auditioning,3 (1h 4m 57s):So I graduated. Yeah. And then after that, I, I, you know, I would go in spurts of productivity, you know, where I would audition a lot. You know, I was always looking at performing, you know, once again, trying to, I took a lot of classes in Chicago. I, I took classes at the actor's center. They had a lot of Meisner there. I did Steven, Steven. I have a villages program. He had a studio in like Wicker park. And so he had like a, like a, I think it was like a nine month program or something. So you would, you know, go and you'd be with the same group.3 (1h 5m 40s):And I went through a program there. I took classes downtown at, I forget what it's called now, the audition studio, or, you know, and I remember taking like an on-camera class with Erica Daniels. And who was the other, who was the lady that she always worked with? The casting director. Do you remember she was blonde1 (1h 6m 8s):Phyllis at Steppenwolf?3 (1h 6m 9s):No. It was like a casting director. Her name began with an ass. I want to say it was like Sharon or Sally, or, I dunno, she was like a big casting director at the time. So I took like an on-camera class with them, you know, I, Yeah. I don't know. It's funny cause like you, you, there's these moments where you realize like you're trying to be funny and it just, isn't funny and it just ends up really awkward. And that was one of those moments with them, you know, you're trying to impress somebody and, and she, I was sort of like chubby in high school.3 (1h 6m 57s):And so I think that as with most women who have issues with body issues, like you, you have those body issues forever. It takes a long time to shake them off. And I remember they gave me the scene. It was, the character was played by Sarah rule. Yeah. So, you know, she was a little overweight at the time, you know, and I remember kind of making this off-color joke about how, oh, I guess I see you gave me the, the part of the fat girl or something like that. Like really like probably not appropriate, but I, I meant it to be self-deprecating, but I wasn't really fat at the time.3 (1h 7m 37s):So it was didn't come off as self-deprecating it was another one of those instances where it's just like, and the woman just like hated me after that, you know? And Erica was pretty cool. I think she kind of realized that I was just nervous and awkward. And with the other woman, I remember seeing her like outside after, and she crossed the street to like, not talk to me. And I was like, oh my God, I'm such an asshole. Like, why did I say that? I didn't mean it. You know? And so I'm even blushing now I think thinking about it,1 (1h 8m 10s):You said what probably a lot of people were thinking when they would get that.2 (1h 8m 15s):Honestly, you can rest assured that absolutely every person who was there was just in an internal monologue about their own body issues. I mean, that's, that's the thing that comes up over and over again, when we feel so much shame about something like that, it's like, those people would never remember it. A and if, even if they did, they'd say with the benefit of hindsight, they might say, oh yeah, well, that just brought up for me. You know, my feelings about myself. And3 (1h 8m 44s):I mean, you know, I think, yeah, it just, it, so I took classes all over the city. I auditioned a lot, like I said, I did some independent films and then, you know, like I was still auditioning kind of in spurts over time, I think. And then I discovered yoga. And so I started doing Bikram yoga. It's just the hot yoga. I hear you guys talking about cults and cult leaders a lot on here. He's, he's one of those guys. He's a, he's a cult leader, a guru now downfall on by sexual harassment.3 (1h 9m 26s):But I started doing the yoga and that was like 2007, I think. And, you know, I had a friend who really kind of pushed me to go do the training and I wasn't really sure, but I decided to go do it. And you know, it kind of, I think, I don't know if you guys have ever done yoga, but it is sort of, you know, it kind of, it gave me something that I had been missing in a way. I think, you know, it is that, that mind body connection, I think I had been very detached from my body for many reasons, you know, abuse and all that.3 (1h 10m 7s):Like not physical abuse, but other kinds of abuse. And, and so like, I think that people get detached from their bodies. And so I think I was really connected to it in a way, and I felt good, you know, in a way that I hadn't felt in a long time. And, you know, I think that's the hardest thing. Sometimes when it goes, when you go back to theater, it's like you put so much energy into it and so much time. And I took so many classes and, you know, I enjoyed the classes and, but I just, you know, I really wanted to get on stage and it was just like, I just couldn't get there. And I think like at a certain point, you're just kind of like, what positive am I getting from this thing that I'm giving all this time and energy and love to like, what's the positives that I'm getting out of this.3 (1h 10m 55s):And I'm not, I'm not really seeing it anymore. You know, you know, I, I would get calls from people. We loved your audition. It was lovely. Please come audition for us again. So, you know, there, there were positives, but it just could never, it just really came to fruition. And so then I started doing the yoga and I, I felt really connected to it and I felt really good and in a way that I hadn't felt. And so then I started teaching yoga and I did that for like 10 years while I was having babies and raising them. And then like, yeah.3 (1h 11m 36s):So then 27 16, I started writing again.2 (1h 11m 40s):I did, I did Bikram yoga for like two years and you're just making me re remember that part of what I liked about it. It was kind of like rehearsal. I mean, cause you just go and you do the same, whatever it is, 26 poses. And the set is the same and the smell the same. And it is kind of like, it's very rich of all the nuggets, like really ritualistic.3 (1h 12m 8s):It is very ritualistic and you know, I haven't been practicing here in Morocco. Sometimes I, you know, close all the doors to my kitchen and I turn on t

33. Regard, Kwabs, Tyga - Signals 32. Lp, Kddk - Angels 31. Zivert, Denis First - Cry 30. Fisher - Just Feels Tight 29. Oneil, Smola - Addicted 28. Alok, John Martin - Wherever You Go 27. Fred Again.., The Blessed Madonna - Marea (Weve Lost Dancing) 26. Люся Чеботина, Ramirez, D. Anuchin - Солнце Монако 25. Joel Corry, Jax Jones, Charli Xcx, Saweetie - Out Out 24. Inna - Flashbacks 23. Area21, Martin Garrix, Maejor - Lovin' Every Minute 22. Zivert, Denis First - Три Дня Любви 21. Tiesto, Ava Max - The Motto 20. Alis Shuka, Byjoelmichael - Not About Us 19. Ханна, Миша Марвин, D. Anuchin, Vladkov - Убью Тебя 18. Dua Lipa, Imanbek - Love Again 17. Rain Radio, Dj Craig Gorman - Talk About 16. Ofenbach, Ella Henderson - Hurricane 15. Джарахов, Markul, Sergey Raf, Arroy - Я В Моменте 14. Swedish House Mafia, The Weeknd - Moth To A Flame 13. Elton John, Dua Lipa, Pnau - Cold Heart 12. Filatov & Karas, Busy Reno - Au Revoir 11. Dabro, Zuffer - Услышит Весь Район 10. Squid Kids, 71 Digits - Red Light, Green Light 09. Nessa Barrett, Jxdn, D. Anuchin - La Di Die 08. Minelli - Rampampam 07. Guma, Dan1Sx - Стеклянная 06. Calvin Harris, Tom Grennan - By Your Side 05. J. Balvin, Skrillex - In Da Getto 04. Ed Sheeran - Bad Habits 03. Alok, Sofi Tukker, Inna - It Don't Matter 02. Kungs - Never Going Home 01. Tiesto, Karol G - Don't Be Shy

In this episode of Bridge Radio, we are joined by Tomas Ramirez III, author of Biblical Christian Fundamentals: The Foundational Truths of the Christian Faith. Tomas Ramirez III is a successful trial lawyer and Justice of the Peace in Medina County, Texas, bordering San Antonio's Bexar County. At approximately 30 years of age, Tomas began a comprehensive study of the Holy Bible in order to know the truth about God. Since that time, he has continued to study the Bible daily, and has been a teacher and supply preacher since 1997.    

In this episode, you'll discover…  Why asking more questions makes you a better leader at work and at home (1:35)  The weird “side-by-side” communication secret that brings you closer to your spouse and children (4:12)  How mowing your lawn without earbuds rejuvenates your spirit after a long, stress-filled week (8:18) Why God wants you to have abundance with your health, finances, and family (even if it seems like He doesn't) (13:01)  The wicked way your desire for control keeps you trapped in a scarcity mindset (14:54)  How your brain works in 3 simple steps — and how to “hack” this to create abundance in your life and business (16:45)  The 2 words you must utter to erase 6 years of a divorce-induced depression (23:29)  How exercising your mindset like your biceps helps joy radiate through every bone in your body (26:08)  The “Look For The Wobble” secret that helps you get out of an emotional funk with ease (and without exploding on your spouse, kids, or pets) (26:32)  How to transform your depression into serenity and your anxiety into hope (30:18)  If you'd like to connect with Kendra, you can visit her digital marketing agency website here: https://www.kendraramirez.com/. Or you can connect with her on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kendraramirez/ and Twitter here: https://twitter.com/KendraRamirez  Are you crushing it at work but struggling at home? If you want to learn how to win at home, then go to https://CoryMCarlson.com and download your free copy of “10 Ways To Win At Home.” If you're looking for a resource to help you with these times when your work is now in your home, check out my book Win At Home First on Amazon. Forbes Magazine rated it one of 7 books everyone on your team should read.

Intro: buzzsaws and clean slates, rage, Where the Wild Things AreLet Me Run This By You: MoneyInterview: We talk to Carole Schweid about Juilliard, Phoebe Brand, John Lehne, Michael Brand, Midnight Cowboy, musical comedy performance, open dance calls, starring in the original cast of A Chorus Line, Bob Fosse, Pat Birch, Martha Graham, Minnie's Boys, Mervyn Nelson, playing Fastrada in the first national tour of Pippin, being a lone wolf in theatre, Lewis J. Stadlen, doing West Side Story at Bucks County Playhouse, Shelly Winters, Mary Hinkson, Nellie Forbush in South Pacific, playing Tzeitel in Fiddler on the Roof, Peppermint Lounge, Nick Dante, Michael Bennett, Marvin Hamlisch, Public Theater, Gerry Schoenfeld, The Shubert, the wish for a job vs. the real experience of working, Theda Bara & The Frontier Rabbi, Agnes de Mille, Play With Your Food, Staged Reading Magic, Albert Hague.FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):2 (10s):And I'm Gina Pulice.1 (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later,2 (16s):We're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense1 (20s):If at all we survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? As more space is actually a huge thing.2 (36s):Yeah. I have to apologize for the sound of buzz saws. What is going to be going the whole time I'm talking, doing well, you1 (50s):Took some trees down, right.2 (53s):You know, that's how it started. Yeah. It started with actually, you know, it all was a surprise to me, basically one we've been talking about taking down all the trees in the front of our house. And one day Aaron said, they're coming tomorrow to take down the trees. And I'm like, how much did that cost? Because you know, taking down trees is usually really expensive. And so he says, well, he's going to do everything in the front for whatever. It was $5,000.1 (1m 22s):Yeah. She was pretty good for more than one tree. Cause one tree we had removed was $5,000 at my mom's.2 (1m 28s):Well, and it's not like they have to extract the whole tree. It's just, you know, just chopping it down. Like it's not, I don't know if it's different when they have to take out the, yeah,1 (1m 38s):I think it is when they have to take the stump out the roots and all that.2 (1m 43s):So that was fine. Although I did think to myself, Hmm. We have $5,000 to spend and this is what we're spending it on.1 (1m 54s):I've been there. Oh, I've been there2 (1m 56s):So the morning, but I'm letting it go. And so the morning comes and he tells me to go outside so we can talk about the trees and, and, and I, anyway, we, we designate some trees and they're all in the lower part of the front of our house.1 (2m 10s):Yes. You, and by the way, for people that don't know, like you have a lot of land for, for, for, for not being in the super super country, you have a lot of courage. I mean, you got a lot of trees.2 (2m 21s):Well, yeah, we have an acre and it's a lot of trees and it's a lot of junk trees. What they call junk trees. Because the idea here is once upon a time, when everybody got their heat from wood, you had to have fast growing trees. So it's these skinny trees. Yeah. Anyway, so I thought we were sort of on the same page about what we were going down. This is where I'm getting with this. And I had a couple of meetings yesterday and I was hearing the sound pretty close, but it wasn't until I looked outside that I saw, they took everything out.2 (3m 1s):The, every living thing out in the, in the front, in front of our house, including the only tree I was really attached to was I have a beautiful lilac tree.1 (3m 14s):Okay. Oh shit. And everything out.2 (3m 21s):What's that? Why they1 (3m 22s):Take everything out? Is that the plant? I think,2 (3m 25s):I think what happened was for the first couple of days, the boss was here. And then I think yesterday, the boss was like, you guys just go and finish up. And I don't know that anyway, you know what, I'm just choosing it to be, I'm choosing to look at it like, okay, well we're getting to start over and it can be exactly how we want it to be. So yeah,1 (3m 45s):That is a great attitude because there's nothing you can do you really do about it? Absolutely. Zero. You can do about threes coming out.2 (3m 53s):The only bummer is that it sounds like buzz saws all day at my house and at my neighbor's house, I'm sure they're annoyed with us too. Well,1 (4m 2s):What are you going to put? It is. Okay. So, so, okay. The good, that's the sort of wonky news, but what the good news is, what are you going to put in? Like, is there going to be a whole new,2 (4m 12s):I think it's just going to GRA, I mean, I think it's just going to be grass, which is fine. I mean, my thing was actually, it does a little bit of a metaphor because when we first moved here, we loved how quiet and private and everything is. And part of why everything feels very private at our house is there's trees and bushes blocking our view of anything. I mean, all we can see is trees and bushes when we're laying on the front, which for a while seemed cozy. And then it started to seem like annoying that we could never see. And actually there's kind of a really beautiful view of the mountains behind us. So our mountains Hills.1 (4m 51s):Yeah. But I mean, small mountains, like small2 (4m 53s):Mountains. Yeah. So I realized that it does coincide with our psychological spelunking and trying to just be like more open about everything. Like totally. You know what I mean? Like this is just be open to people seeing our house. This is open to seeing out and let's have, and actually my kids were kind of like, oh, but it's just also open and we don't have any privacy. And I'm like, yeah, well you have your room and bathroom. I mean, there's, there's places to go if you don't want people to, to see you, but let's just be open.1 (5m 31s):There's like a whole, yeah. It's a great metaphor for being visible. Like I am all about lately. I have found a lot of comfort and refuge in the truth of the matter, even if it's not pretty, even if I don't actually like it. So like getting the facts of the matter and also sharing the, of the matter without a judgment. So I appreciate this, like wanting to be seen and then letting go of what people make of that, whether your house is this way or that way, or the neighbors think this or that, I'm also the, I I'm all about it.1 (6m 15s):I'm like, you know, this is, there's something about transparency. That's very comforting for me. It's also scary because people don't like it when they can see, or they can say whatever they want, but the hiding, I think I'm pretty convinced hiding from myself and from others leads to trouble.2 (6m 37s):It leads to trouble. And any time you're having to kind of keep track of what you're, you know, being open about and what you're not, and what you've said, you know, it just it's like it's T it's listen. If I only have a certain amount of real estate in my mind, I really don't want to allocate any of it too. Right. Hiding something and trying to remember. Right.1 (7m 1s):And it's interesting, the more that we do this podcast, the more I see that, like, you know what I thought gene, I thought when we're dead, this podcast is going to remain. And then our children's children's children. I mean, I don't have kids, but my nieces and nephew and your children's children's children will have a record of this. And, and I'd rather it be a record of the truth, the truth and transparency, then some show about pretending. So I think it's going to be good for them to be able to look back and be like, for me, it's like the, my crazy aunt, like, what was she doing? And what did she think? And, and, oh my God, it's a record of the times too.1 (7m 43s):Yeah.2 (7m 43s):I think about that kind of a lot. And I think about, of course I say all this and my kids are probably like going to be, have no interests unless the, until they get to a certain age, I mean, I'll put it to you this way. If I could listen to a podcast of my mother in her, you know, in the time that I don't really the time of life, certainly before I was born, but in my life where I still didn't see her as a person until, you know, I'd love to just things like what her voice sounded like then, and that kind of thing. I mean, it's interesting.1 (8m 16s):I have nothing of my mom, like we have a very few, it was interesting because we didn't, you know, we, there was not a lot of video of my mother and today's actually the 10th anniversary of her passing.2 (8m 28s):Oh, wow. Wow. That's hard.1 (8m 31s):It is hard. You know, it is hard. And I'm working through, I started therapy with a new therapist, like a regular LCSW lady. Who's not because my last guy was an Orthodox Jewish man who wanted me to have children. Like it was a whole new, I just got involved in all the Shannon Diego's of like weirdness. I attracted that weirdest and whatever. So this lady is like a legit, you know, therapist. And they only bummer is, and I totally understand she's on zoom, but like, I I'm so sick of like, I would love to be in a room with a therapist, but I get it. She's in, she's an older lady, which is also great. I was so sick of having like 28 year old therapists.1 (9m 13s):Yeah,2 (9m 13s):Yeah, yeah. For sure.1 (9m 16s):I don't even seem right. Unless clients are like, you know, fit seven to 17. So anyway, so, but all this to say about my mom, I was thinking about it and I think what's harder than right. My mom's death right now is that there's I just, you know, and this is something I wanted to bring up with you is just like, I have a lot of rage that's coming up lately about my childhood and we weren't allowed to feel rage. And my mom was the only one allowed to feel rage. And so this rage mixed with perimenopause slash menopause. I mean, like I still get a period, but like, it's, it's a matter of time before that's over.1 (9m 58s):So, but the rage, so I guess, right. I get, you know, people like to talk about rage as some or anger as something we need to process and we need to do this and that, but the truth of the matter is since we're being transparent, like rage can be really scary. Like sometimes the rage, I feel, it's not like I'm going to do anything. Why wonky? I hope, but it's more like a, I don't know what to do with it. That is my, and I was talking in therapy about that. Like, I'm not actually sure. Practically when the feelings come up, what to do with rage. And I feel like it speaks to in our culture of like, we're all about now, this sort of like, we talk about this fake positivity and shit like that.1 (10m 41s):And also like embracing all your feelings, but there's not really practical things that we learn what to do when you feel like you're going to take your laptop and literally take it and throw it across the room and then go to jail. Like you, you. So I have to like look up things on the internet with literally like what to do with my rage.2 (11m 1s):I think that's why that's part of my attraction to reality. Television shows is a, is a performance of rage. That's that I wouldn't do just because I don't think I could tolerate the consequences. I mean, an upwards interpretation is, oh, it's not my value, but it's really just like, I don't think I can manage the content of the consequences. I'm totally at having all these blown up1 (11m 30s):And people mad at me and legal consequences. I can't,2 (11m 35s):It's something very gratifying about watching people just give in to all of their rage impulses and it's yeah. I, it it's, it may be particularly true for women, but I think it's really just true for everybody that there's very few rage outlets, although I guess actually maybe sports. Well, when it turns, when it turns sideways, then that's also not acceptable.1 (12m 3s):Yeah. I mean, and maybe that's why I love all this true crime is like, these people act out their rage, but like lately to be honest, the true crime hasn't been doing it for me. It's interesting. That is interesting. Yeah. It's sort of like, well, I've watched so much of it that like now I'm watching stuff in different languages, true crime. And I'll start again. No, no, just stories. I haven't all been the only stories that I haven't heard really, really are the ones from other countries now. So I'm watching like, like true crime in new, in Delhi.2 (12m 42s):Do you need your fix? I actually was listening to some podcasts that I listened to. There's always an ad and it's exactly about this. It's like, we love true crime, but we've heard every story we know about every grisly murder, you know, detail. And it was touting itself as a podcast of, for next time I listened to it. I'll note the name of it so I can share it with you. You know, about this crimes. You haven't heard about1 (13m 9s):T the thing is a lot of them now, because I'm becoming more of a kind of sewer. Like a lot of it is just shittily made. So like the, the they're subtitled and dubbed in India, like India. So you've got like the, the they're speaking another language and then they're and if they don't match, so then I'm like, well, who's right. Like, is it the dubbing that's right. Or the subtitles that are right. And, and actually the words matter because I'm a writer. So it was like one anyway, it's poorly done is what I'm saying in my mind. And so it sort of scraped scraping the bottom of the barrel. It's like deli 9 1 1. I swear to God. That's what it, and, and it's, and also it's, it's horrifying because the, you know, the legal systems everywhere fucked, but India has quite a system.2 (13m 57s):I think that to the rage, like, tell me more about what comes up for you with rage and where you,1 (14m 6s):Yeah. Okay. So some of it is physiological, like where I feel literally like, and I think this is what my doctor's talking about. The menopause symptoms. I literally feel like a gnashing, my teeth. Like, I feel a tenseness in my jaw. Like, that's literally that. And she's like, that could also be your heart medication. So talk to your heart doctor. I mean, we're checking out all the things, but like, but it's tension. That's what it really feels like in my body is like tight tension where I feel earth like that. If I had to put a sound effect to it, it's like, ah, so I, I feel that is the first symptom of my rage. And then I feel like, and, and I say out loud, sometimes I hate my life.1 (14m 54s):That's what I say. And that is something I have never allowed myself to say before. Like I, I think unconsciously, I always told myself, like, you just, you have to be grateful and you know, those are the messages we receive, but sometimes life just fucking sucks. And sometimes my life, I just, I just can't stand. And, and in moments, you know, I never loved myself. So it's mostly a physical symptom followed by this is intolerable, what someone is doing. Sometimes my dog or my husband, but even, even if the coworking space, you know, like the lady was talking too loud and I was like, oh my God, this is intolerable.1 (15m 34s):She has to shut up. So agitation, that's what it is. And, and then it passes when I, if I, if I can say, oh my gosh, I am so fricking in Rouge right now. Then it passes.2 (15m 52s):Yeah. Well, it, it kind of sounds like from, from you and probably for most people, the only real option is to turn it in on yourself, you know, like you're not going to put it elsewhere. So you've, you know, you have, which is, so I guess maybe it's okay if you turn it on yourself, if you're doing, if you're working, if you're doing it with acceptance, which is the thing I'm gathering from you, as opposed to stewing and festering. And1 (16m 21s):I mean, it becomes, it's interesting. Yes, it is. So it's like, so red, hot, and so sudden, almost that the only thing I can do is say, okay, this is actually happening. Like, I can't pretend this isn't happening. I, it I'm like physically clenching my fists. And then I, yeah, there is a level of acceptance. I don't get panicked anymore. Now that I, that something is wrong. I just say, oh, this is rage. I name it. I'm like, I feel enraged and white, hot rage, and then it, and then it, and then I say, that's what this is.1 (17m 3s):I don't know why. I don't know where it's coming from. Right. In this moment. It's not proportionate to the lady, like literally talking on the phone at my coworking space that she's not shouting. So it's not that. And I don't want to miss that. I'm not like I can't fool myself to think that it's really, that lady's problem. That I feel like throwing my laptop at her head. And then, and then it passes. But, but, but it is, it is more and more. And, and I think a lot of it, not a lot of it, but you know, my doctor really does think that it's, it's hormonal. A lot of it just doesn't help the matter. I mean, it's not like, oh, great. It's hormonal. Everything's fine. But it, it does help to make me feel a little less bonkers.2 (17m 45s):Maybe you should have like a, a whole rage. Like what, like a rate. Well, first I was thinking you should have a range outfit. Like, oh, for me, if I, I noticed I pee in the winter anyway, I pick like my meanest boots and my leather jacket. When I'm feeling, you know, maybe say maybe kind of a rage outfit, when did Pierce?1 (18m 9s):No, I, I scratched myself in my sleep. Oh no, it's okay. It happens all the time. I do it in my sleep. It's a thing that it's like a little skin tag that I need to get removed. It's2 (18m 23s):So you could have a rage outfit and then you could have a rage playlist, And then you might even have like rage props. I'm just trying to think about a way that your ma you, you could write because if, if how you process something is artistically creatively, then maybe you needed a creative outlet that's specifically for, for race.1 (18m 48s):Yeah. And you know, the, I, I love that. And now I'm thinking about like, as a kid, we, because we, anger was so off limits to us. I used to violently chew gum. Like I would chew on the gum. That was a way, and my mom did the same thing, even though she also got her rage out, but it was like, you know, when people violently chew on their gum, like that was a way I could get my aggression out. That's so sad that that's like the only way.2 (19m 16s):Well, I mean, you find it wherever you can find me. It's like water looking for whatever that expression is, right? Yeah. Huh. Well, I have to get more in touch with my rage because I I'm told that I seem angry a lot.1 (19m 33s):You do.2 (19m 35s):I, I do get told that, but, but that sucks for me because I feel like I'm not expressing my anger and I'm, but I'm not. So I'm not, and I'm being seen as angry at certain times. So that means I didn't even get the benefit of like letting out the anger that somebody is.1 (19m 56s):Right. You didn't even get to act out the anger. It's like, yeah. So for me, miles tells me that all the time, like, he's like, you seem really in couples therapy. Also, I have to admit yesterday was a big day. We had couples therapy on zoom. Then I had individual therapy. And in between I had all kinds of like, just stuff happening. So, but yeah, I'm told I a miles is like, you seem so angry and he's not wrong. And, and we take it out on the people that we live in a two by four apartment with. So I also feel like this office space is helping with that, but yeah, I dunno, I'm going to have to keep exploring my, my rage and that's what it is.1 (20m 37s):And also it is like, I am the character in where the wild things are that kid, that is what I feel like. And it feels it's like the perfect cause he wants to gnash his teeth and, and he does, and a thrash, thrash, thrashing mash, or the words 2 (21m 6s):Let me run this by you that I wanted to do when we're going to talk to Molly that we didn't get to do. And it was based on made, you know, and just about money and, and wondering like what your relationship is right now with money. And also, but when were you at your lowest with money? What do you remember as being your lowest moment? Sure, sure. With money with money.1 (21m 40s):Okay. I have moments of what first comes to mind was when right. I was at DePaul. So it's an apropos in college and there was obviously a sense. I had a sense of lack, always, even though based on whatever, but it was phone. Somehow my accounts were always negative, right? Like, and I would call the number, the banking number, incessantly to check, and it would always be negative. So I have this panic thoughts about that. Like being a time of like, and that's not the only time that happened like that.1 (22m 23s):Where, what is the feeling? The feeling was that, and this was in college where it started to happen, where I felt like there's never enough. No, one's going to help me. I'm irresponsible with money. Was the message I told myself and I probably was, I was in college, but I can't handle money. And literally that, that panic was also, I mean, it was true. I had no money, but my parents would have backed me, probably helped me out, but I was too scared to ask for help. So that's like, that's when, when you asked that question, that's where I go.1 (23m 4s):But, but that's also a college kind of me. So like in terms of an adult, me, that's a really great, great question. My lowest, I don't know. What about you?2 (23m 22s):Well, I've got a lot of Loma Loehmann's moments with money when I was in high school. The thing was, I lost my wallet all the time.1 (23m 35s):Oh, I remember this. I remember you talking about,2 (23m 38s):Yeah, that'd be still lose stuff all the time. That actually started at a young age with, you know, my mom would, she, my mom was really into jewelry and she would buy me destroyed. And there's nothing wrong with the fact that she brought me jewelry, but I lost it. You know, she buy me nice gold jewelry1 (23m 59s):Because she likes nice things. That's right. Yeah.2 (24m 4s):In college it was pretty bad. And the first time it was pretty bad. I had to move back in with my mom because I couldn't afford rent. And then the second time I just, I re I really, if I had more bravery, I probably would have signed up to be one of those girls in the back of the Chicago reader. Like, I, I, I just figured what ha how literally, how else? Because I had a job, but I only worked however much I could work given the fact that we were in rehearsals and like busy all day, so I never could make enough money. And then I just, I think I always have had a dysfunctional relationship with money.1 (24m 51s):Wait a minute, but I have to interrupt. Why, why didn't our parents fucking help us? Okay. Look, I know I sound like a spoiled asshole brat, but like, when I think of the anxiety that we were going through and I know your mom did, so I'm not going to talk shit about your mom or anything, but I'm just saying like, why did we feel so alone in this when we were so young, this is not right.2 (25m 11s):Yeah. Well, my mom did help me out as much as she possibly could, but I think part of it too, my dad certainly didn't think it was that. I mean, when my mom was 18 and my dad was 19, they bought a house and had a baby. So I think part of it is, has been like, what's the matter with you? Cause I didn't go to college, you know, that's the other thing. So, so then when I, then I had a period for like 10 years where I always had three jobs, me two, what1 (25m 46s):Did you have enough then? I mean like, could you make rapid enough?2 (25m 49s):I had enough then yeah, I had enough then. But then when Aaron decided he wants to go to medical school, it was really on me to, to bring in the income. I mean, his parents always gave him money. They helped, it was a lot more. I mean, and actually it's why he became a therapist because I thought, well, we're going to be living with no income because he's going to be a student. Right. So I better giddy up and get a job. So the whole time I was in social work school, I was bartending. I remember that. And then I went quickly into private practice so that I could make money.2 (26m 29s):And it turned out to be, it turned out to backfire on me. Tell1 (26m 35s):Me, tell me, tell me more.2 (26m 37s):It backfired in two ways. Number one, I was, I shouldn't have been operating a private practice without my LCSW. I had my MSW and I was working at the time in a psych hospital. And all of the psychiatrist said, you should start your private practice. You should start your private practice. And I remember saying at the beginning, I don't know if I'm allowed to oh yes, yes. You definitely can. I know tons of MSWs into plenty of people and it's true. I don't know if it's still true now in New York, but at that time you could walk around and see plenty of nameplates for offices where somebody in private practice and that just have an MSW.2 (27m 18s):They just had to have a supervisor1 (27m 19s):Or something.2 (27m 22s):I don't know. Okay. I dunno. Right. So that ended up coming to haunt me when a disgruntled patient. And they're all disgruntled in some way, a family who actually had been swindled by a con artist, like they, they were a blue blood, rich ass family and they got swindled by a con artist. And so they were talking about rage. They had a lot of rage about that. When this guy who was paying for his daughter's treatment, didn't think it was going where, you know, he wanted it to right.2 (28m 4s):He started pushing back about the fee and then he was submitting to his insurance company and they were not reimbursing because I didn't have the LCSW. So then he reported me to the New York state office of professional discipline or1 (28m 21s):Whatever yeah.2 (28m 21s):Regulation or whatever. Yeah. And I ha I had to go through a whole thing. I had to have a lawyer and I had to go, yeah, yeah. It was a nightmare. It was a complete and total nightmare. And I, and I said nothing, but like, yeah, I did that. I did do that. And I did it because I needed to make the money. I mean, in some ways I don't regret it because I did it worked for the time that it worked. And then by the time it stopped working, I was ready to leave private practice anyway. Oh my God. Yeah. But then it also backfired because we were taking in this money, which we desperately needed living in New York city with two kids.2 (29m 3s):And, and we were, we were spending it all and not hold withholding any for taxes. So then that started, that started, that started almost 10 year saga of just, I mean, I, it's embarrassing to even say how much money we've paid in just in fees, compounded fees. Nope. I'm sure. In the last 10 years we've given the government a million dollars.1 (29m 29s):That sounds, that sounds about right. And you know, I think the thing with money too, is the amount of forgiveness I've need to muster up for the financial decisions that I have made. So one of them that I'm super embarrassed about is that, and I, and I hear you when it's like, yeah, I, it, it's embarrassing. I, I, when I did my solo show, I inherited the year that my mom died. My great aunt also died, who I very barely knew. And I inherited like, like a lot of money. Well, to me, a lot, like 50 grand from her, and I spent 15,000 on a publicist for my solo show that did nothing.1 (30m 14s):So I was swindled. Oh,2 (30m 17s):I'm so sorry to hear that. That really did nothing.1 (30m 22s):I could have done it all on my own. I could have done it all on my own, on drugs, in a coma. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, like, come on. So I have done made some questionable decisions. I did the best we did the best we could with, with the information that we all had at the time. I would never make that decision. I wouldn't, I will never make that mistake again. So yeah. Money is very, very, obviously this is so like kind of obvious to say, but it is, it is. So it is a way in which we really, really use it to either prize or shame ourselves. Right. And, and, and w I do it either way, like I do it.1 (31m 2s):Oh, I'm so fancy. I inherited this dough. And then I also do it. It's that thing that they talk about in program, which is like, you're the worm, but you're the best worm for the festival, special worms. And like, you're not a worker among workers. I'm just like the best idiot out there. It's like,2 (31m 18s):Dude. Yeah. And you're making me realize that money might be the only very quantifiable way of understanding your psychology list. The money is like, understanding your psychology through math. It's going okay. If you're a person like me who gets offered a credit card at age 20 totally signs up and, and immediately maxes it out at whatever, to get 27% interest rate. So whatever little thousand dollars of clothes I got, I probably paid $10 for it. And for the longest time. So, so that's me being afraid of the truth of my financial situation, being unwilling to sacrifice, having, you know, whatever, cute clothes being about the immediate gratification of it all and not thinking longterm.2 (32m 15s):Yeah.1 (32m 16s):Okay. Well, not asking for help either. Like, like, I don't know who I'd asked, but someone had to know more than me. I didn't ask my parents. They didn't really know what was happening at, or that just was their generation of like, not teaching us about money. It was sort of like, good luck. Get it together. We got it together. You get it together. Okay. Fine. But like unwillingness and fear to ask, to be taught something about money. Like, I didn't know, Jack shit about credit or interest Jack shit.2 (32m 46s):Yeah. And I recently realized that I'm basically redoing that with my kids, because we supposedly have this allowance. Only one of my kids ever remembers to ask for it because you know, only one of my kids is very, you know, very interested in money, but like, in a way I can understand why the others don't because it's like, well, anytime they want something, I pay for it. I never say sometimes I'll say recently, I've gotten better about saying, if we're going to go back to school shopping I'll especially if the oldest one, I'll say, this is your budget. If you, if you spend it all on one pair of sneakers, then I hope you're okay with your sweat pants that don't fit and wear them everyday for the rest of the school year.2 (33m 31s):Right. But it's, we've, we've just been extremely inconsistent in tying, like, for example, chores to your allowance,1 (33m 42s):It's fucking miserable and hard. And I have trouble doing that for myself. I wouldn't be able to do that for my children. If I had children, I can't not give the dog people food. What are you talking about? How am I going to bring it? Doesn't shock me. We didn't learn the skills and I'm not blaming. I mean, I'm blaming, of course my parents, but I'm also just saying, it's just the facts. If we're going to be that in the truth, like, I didn't learn, I didn't educate myself and nobody educated me. So I'm really learning through trial and error. Mostly error, how to be okay with money. And it is you're right. Like finances, romance, and finance teach us the most about our psychology.2 (34m 24s):Yeah. Yeah. Romance finance. I love that. 1 (34m 28s):I think that my boss at Lutheran social services to say all the time, finance and romance, romance, and finance, that's what all these addictions are about is that's how you see them. I'm like, she's right. I mean, she was, I liked her. She was bonkers, but I liked her. She said some good. She, she also is famous for saying, and she didn't say it, but she would always quote, the, no one gets out of here alive. You know, none of us getting out of here life, we might as well start2 (34m 54s):. Well, today on the podcast, we were talking to Carol Schweid and original cast member of the original production of a chorus line on Broadway. She's got great stories to tell she's a fascinating person. And I think you're going to really enjoy this conversation with Carol Schweid. Exactly. Carol shrine. Congratulations. You survived theater school. I did. You did.2 (35m 34s):And where did you go to theater school. Okay. First of all,3 (35m 38s):Let me just take my coffee, my extra coffee off of the stove and put it on my table. Cause it's gonna burn because we don't want that.4 (35m 51s):Okay. You're I am looking for a cop. If you have one, you know, this is ridiculous.3 (36m 2s):Hi there. Hi. This is a riot that you talk about surviving theater school. I think it's great. Okay. So this is working, right? You can hear me. Yeah, no, totally. A hundred percent. So this is my, I started college at Boston university. I was an acting major, which I loved. I really did, but I, what I loved more than anything was I loved the history of the theater. We had a great professor who told the tales of the gladiators and the, you know, the gladiators on the island and the fighting, and then the island, the survivors, and then the island would slowly sink into the water.3 (36m 45s):What is this? What did I miss? It was the early history of the theater. It was starting on the church steps. It was, you know, the second, whatever all of that history was, I found it really interesting. I also loved the station shop crew stuff. I liked learning about lighting. I was terrible at it. I, you know, I would fall off ladder, but I, I, I enjoyed the backstage stuff as much as I enjoy. I just, I liked it. I, we did the rose tattoo and my, and my first job was to take care of the goat. I was on the prop crew.3 (37m 28s):I took care of the goat. Was it a stuffed goat? No, it was a real goat. Wow. What can I tell you? The rose tattoo. There's a goat in the play. I didn't realize you could have livestock and colleges, college, whatever it was. I look like I have jaundice with is that something's wrong with the light jump I sent you stop your, where is the microphone part of your, do you want me to hold it up better? Because when you move, it hits your shirt and it makes like a scratching, right? That's right. I'll do it this way. I won't move around. When you look tan, you look, you don't like jaundice at all. Okay. Well then that's all right. Good. Thanks. Were the goat handlers.3 (38m 8s):Good to talk to you. I mean, that was, and I didn't mind, I didn't mind being an usher. All of those things, you know, I remember somebody sitting us down and saying, you're you are the first person. The audience we'll meet tonight as an usher. I took all of the stuff I did, but the acting business was very confusing to me. I didn't quite know. I had done a lot of theater and dancing and been in the shows and stuff, but I really, I was a little more of a dancer than an actor. I'd taken class in the city. I'd followed some cute guy from summer camp to his acting class. But half the time, I honestly didn't understand a word.3 (38m 48s):Anybody said, I just, nobody does. I really didn't get it so much at the time I loved it, but I didn't always get it. And for some reason, and I have no idea where this, why this happened. I had a boyfriend in summer stock whose mother worked at Barnard and her best friend was a woman named Martha Hill. Martha Hill ran the dance department at a school called Julliard. Nope. I had no idea. Cool. Just a little, nothing school. This is back in the day. It's a long time ago. It was just a plain old school. It wasn't like a school, you know, where you bow down. And I really was a very good dancer and always loved dancing.3 (39m 33s):You know, I've been dancing since I'm like a kid, a little five or six or whatever. So I was a little disenchanted with my successes at Boston U even though I had friends, I was having a great time. I mean, Boston in the late sixties was amazingly fun, but I felt like I wasn't getting it. I mean, it wasn't a school that was cutting people. Thank God, because that would have been torture. I don't know how anybody survives that, but I audition for this dance department in this school called Juilliard and got in and then told my parents that I was going to change colleges. I remember making up a dance in the basement of my dorm in Boston.3 (40m 17s):Cause you had a sort of take class and then you had to show something that you should have made up. And somebody else from college was leaving school to come to New York to be a singer. So we decided we were going to be roommates. And then we had a summer stock. Somebody at BU started some summer theaters. So I had a job or two, I think I had some friends from there. So I ended up moving, changing colleges and going to Juilliard. And I spent three years there. I was a modern dancer major. So we had the Limone company, including Jose Lamone wow teachers and the Graham company.3 (40m 59s):I mean, Martha, Martha Graham did not teach, but her company did as a winter and Helen, I was Helen McGee. One of the, they were maniacs. I mean, they're, they're like gods and goddesses and their whole life is about dance. And I was one of those demonstrators for her eight o'clock beginning class, my third year of school. I mean, I, it was all about technique. We had amazing ballet teachers. We had Fiorella Keane who, I mean, Anthony tutor taught class there and he was Anthony. I mean, so I got a out of being at that school that I have never lost. I mean, I can, I'm making up the answers for high school kids now really.3 (41m 42s):I'm just finishing up a production of grease, which is really kind of boring, but whatever I liked Greece, tell me more. Yeah. It's okay. If you hear it enough, you really get sick of it. Well, that's true. Yeah. I mean high school kids doing high school kids is like, Jesus, God, you just want to slit your throat. The moodiness when it comes to the girls. I mean, I love them. I really love them. I love the guys because puppies, they fall all over each other and they're fabulous, but that's a lie anyway. So I did something that I don't know why I did it and how it worked out. That way I left. I had a very best friend in college that was, you know, and I came to New York and made, made and shared an apartment with this slightly crazy woman.3 (42m 32s):And a year later I got myself a studio apartment on west end avenue and 71st street. And my mom co-signed the lease. And I spent three years dancing, honestly dancing almost every day. I wanted to take sights singing, but they wouldn't let me because I was in the dance department. And I didn't know, you could advocate for that. Sure. I didn't know. You could take classes at Columbia. I mean, who had time anyway, but was it a three-year program? It was a four year program, but I had taken a music class at BU that was like music appreciation one. Yeah. And for whatever reason, they gave me credit for that.3 (43m 14s):So I had a full year credit. Yep. Three years of Juilliard where I really worked my tail off. What's weird about it is that I am, you know, just a plain old Jewish girl from New Jersey, you know, a middle-class Jewish girlfriend. And to, to think that I could have a profession where people don't talk and don't eat, which is what the answers do is a riot to me. Yeah. Yeah. It's an absolute riot because you know, I mean, that should be basically the manual for dancers. Don't talk, don't eat, but I always knew that I was heading to Broadway. I really have always wanted to do that.3 (43m 55s):And I, and, and w was not really ever in question that I would, I somehow assumed if I worked hard and figured it out enough, I would find my way to working on Broadway. And I, and I made the right choice in the sense of switching colleges. Because in the seventies, if you look at your list of Broadway shows, all the directors were choreographers. They were all dancers, all of them Fauci, Michael Bennett champion, all of them. So I started working when I got out of school, you know, it was, and I had already done a couple of summers of summer stock and I did a summer Bushkill pencil, you know, these ridiculous, stupid theaters all over, but it was a blast.3 (44m 36s):It was fun. Where, what was your first job out of school? I was still, I was in school and it was the Mount Suttington Playhouse, which was like a tin shell in Connecticut. And I think it was still in college. Cause two guys from school had opened this theater at the skiing place, but it wasn't skiing. Then it was a sh it was like a tin shell. So couldn't really do a show when it was raining very well. And I believe it was stopped the world. I want to get off and I can still remember the Alto harmony to some of the songs. So you okay. Wait, so you don't consider, you didn't consider yourself a, an actor or did you?3 (45m 20s):Well, I did, but I think what happened was I had to audition for something. It'd be you like, they had grad programs and it wasn't that I was unsuccessful there, but somebody came and I didn't get cast. I didn't get hired. And I didn't understand, you know, like they give you all these acting exercises. We do sense memory. Well, I didn't know they were exercises. I didn't, they were they're like plea aids. Right. They're like learning things. I took this all very seriously. I would stand in a room and try to feel it was like that song from chorus line, you know, try to feel the emotion, feel the, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.3 (46m 5s):I did all of that. I didn't really understand the simple, what am I want here? And what's in my way of trying to get it. Yeah. It took me so long to find teachers that I really could understand and make me a better actor. So when did you find them? When did you start to find them? Oh, that's interesting. Well, I found a couple of good teachers in New York. I mean, honestly there was a woman named Mary Tarsa who had been in the group theater and an older lady. I mean, it's a long time ago anyway, you know, but I remember sitting in her class and she would talk about using imagery and th and I started to sort of understand a little bit, which is amazing to me because after I moved to Westport and I met, do you know the name Phoebe brand?3 (46m 58s):Yeah. Phoebe brand was in our theater workshop. Oh, taught a class. She was already up in her eighties and she taught a class, a Shakespeare class on Sunday mornings. And all of a sudden these things that I didn't understand from decades before. Hmm. It sort of pulled it all together. But for me, I went, I was in California after I got married and moved to LA for a couple of years, found a teacher named John LAN and Lee H N E and two years in his class. I started to really understand how to do it. And then when I came back to New York, he sent me to Michael Howard and Michael Howard, Michael Howard was a great teacher for me.3 (47m 44s):He's still a great, I don't know if he's still around if he's teaching or not, but he was a wonderful teacher. And I started to understand how to do it. Was Len the, did he teach the method or what was yes, he was, he was an actor studio teacher. And I started to understand about being present on the stage and being able to deal with people. All of it, it just changed dramatically. I mean, I started to understand what this was about and seeing other good actors and chipping away at it and finding people to rehearse with. And1 (48m 22s):You, you, from what I know, and what I'm gathering is that once you graduated Juilliard, you were cast in New York.3 (48m 30s):Well, you know, I did get my very, my V I I've. I mean, I, I remember going to see midnight cowboy, which was about the same time as I got out of college. And I remember going into a terrible panic of, oh my God. I mean, really scared about all of it. And I, I went, I joined a class that a friend of mine, somebody told me about this class, you know, I always follow somebody to a class. I'm always, I have good friends. And I, somebody says, oh, I love this guy come to class and I'd show up.3 (49m 12s):And this was a musical comedy singing class, kind of where there were writers in the class and actors in the class. And the writers in the class would work on a musical that they didn't have permission for. It wasn't like they were, we were doing this for money or for, for future. So my friend who I became friends with wrote her musical version of barefoot in the park and which has never been done, but I remember I was in it and this guy was in it. And we, it was the kind of a class where it was a very warm, funny group, funny group of wacko theater people. And I would go to open calls and I'd usually go to open dance calls because that was a door for me.3 (49m 59s):And also I used to have to sneak out of Jew, not sneak necessarily, but essentially sneak out to take my singing lessons. And I took singing lessons every, you know, every week for years, for three years, I would, you know, and I, and I was not really, I don't think a very good singer, but I became a good singer. I would sneak out of school and go to an acting class. I don't even know when I started that, but I know that I would find the time to do it and then talk about acting and find a teacher so that when I would audition for a musical and I would get through the dancing. Usually if I got through the first cut, I would make it to the end. I wouldn't always get the job, but if I made it through that first horrible, random cut, you know, where there's 200 people in your dancing across the stage and it's yes, no, yes, no.3 (50m 47s):Is it really?1 (50m 48s):Because I'm not a dancer. So I never had this. I, when my agents are like, oh, there's an open dance call. I'm like, ah, that's you sent the wrong person, the email. So it's really like that, like in, in chorus line where they say, you know,3 (51m 1s):Oh yeah. It's like all that jazz. It's really like that.2 (51m 6s):Wait, I have a question. I want to hear the re the rest of that. But I, I just, I've never asked anybody. What's the biggest difference between the people who got cut immediately. I mean, was it training or were there people that, in other words, were there people who were just walking in off the street with no training trying to audition? Yeah,1 (51m 29s):No, truly an open call.3 (51m 31s):No. And sometimes these were equity calls. Cause I, I, I did get my equity card on a summer. That one summer I worked for a non-union, you know, we were in either Bushkill Pennsylvania or Southern Eaton Connecticut, or I did a couple of those summers. And then the next summer, the choreographer from that show had an equity job. And he hired like three of us from our non-unions summer stock, because we were good enough. And1 (52m 4s):So when you went to these open calls, everyone, there was a bad-ass dancer. No one, there was like,3 (52m 10s):That's not true. That's not true. There were all different levels of dancers, but it was also a look await, you know, it was always, I was always like seven pounds overweight. It was like, the torture is thing of weight does enough to put anybody over the edge1 (52m 26s):That they literally3 (52m 27s):Weigh you, Carol. Oh God. No. Oh, but it's so look, and I will tell you there's one. There was one time when I remember auditioning for above Fossey show and there were a lot of people on the stage and we were whatever we were doing. And then at 1.3 Fossey dancers, it was their turn. And these three gals, okay. Their hair was perfect. Their makeup was fabulous. They had a little necklace, they had a black leotards, you know, cut up high, but not out of control. Good tights, no, no runs, nice shoes, nails done.3 (53m 7s):And they were fantastic. They were clean. They were technically, and we all sort of went, oh fuck.1 (53m 16s):Right.3 (53m 18s):Right. And I have friends who became Fossey dancers. I mean, I worked for Bob, but I have friends who did a lot of shows him. And they had that same experience where they saw other people, the way it should be. And then they would go back a month later and get the job because they knew what it took. It was all about knowing what it takes. But the thing about having studied acting and having slowly studied singing is that in the world of musical theater, I was ahead of the game because there's not that much time. So you have to be willing to spend all of your time.3 (54m 0s):Right.1 (54m 1s):There are some people I'm assuming Carol, that could dance wonderfully, but couldn't do the singing and the acting part. And that's where you were like, that's the triple threat newness of it all is like, you could do3 (54m 12s):Well, I could do them better than a lot of people. And I certainly could sing well, and I had, I could sing a short song and I knew that you sing a short song. I knew that you'd probably do an uptempo, you know? And also I tend to be a little angry when I go into an audition. It's like, why do I fuck? Do I have to audition? I better, duh. So I needed to find things that allowed me to be a little angry so I could be myself. And I could also be a little funny if I could figure out how to do that. So all of these things worked in my favor. And then of course, like everybody else in her, a lot of people, pat Birch, who was a choreographer, she had like a gazillion shows running, including Greece on Broadway. And now over here, I don't know if she did grease, but she did over here.3 (54m 55s):She did. She was very prolific choreographer. She had been a Martha Graham dancer and she had taught a couple of classes at Julliard. And when it came to my auditioning for her, she needed girls who could dance like boys. She didn't need tall leggy, chorus girls. We were doing the show she was working on, was a show called Minnie's boys. And it was a show about the Marx brothers and the last number of the show. We were all the whole chorus was dressed up like different Marx brothers. And she needed girls who could be low to the ground, who can, you could turn who and I was the right person.3 (55m 36s):And I remember being in that class, that wonderful musical theater class with a teacher named Mervin Nelson, who was just a great older guy who kind of worked in the business. I remember I had to go to my callback. I went to my class and the callback was at night. And I remember him walking me to the door, putting his arm around me and saying, go get the job. And if you don't get this one, we'll get you. The next one1 (56m 4s):That makes me want to3 (56m 4s):Cry. Well, it made me feel like part of the family, cause we all want to be part of that theater family. And so I tend to do that when I'm with an actor, who's going to go get a job or go get, you know, you want to feel like it's possible. Yeah. You feel like you can, you deserve it.1 (56m 29s):You said, you mentioned briefly that you worked for Bob3 (56m 32s):Fossey. I did.1 (56m 35s):Oh my gosh. Did you turn into one of those ladies that looked like a bossy dancer too? Like, did you then show up to those auditions? Like, oh3 (56m 43s):No, I don't think I, I couldn't, I didn't, I could not get into a chorus of Bob Fossey, but I did get to play for strata in Pippin in the, in the, in the first national tour. And he, Bob was the, he was the director and I, I knew I was the right person for that job. It was also a funny, kind of lovely circumstances that I was in some off-Broadway an off-Broadway show that had started as an awful off, off of a, that, that Bubba, that moved to an off-Broadway theater. I got some excellent reviews. And I think the day the review came out was the day I had my audition for Bob Fossey.3 (57m 24s):So I, and I played it. I had talked to people who knew him. I talked to, you know, I, I knew that I, I don't know, I just, I, I had done some work and I just, I don't know the right person at the right time, somebody, he needed it. That part required a good dancer. Who could, I don't know how I got the part. I just,1 (57m 57s):I'm kind of getting the impression that we're talking about being a strong dancer.3 (58m 0s):Well, let's strong dancer. And also being able to, being able to talk and sing was really the key. I'm not sure that I certainly, as a young person, I, I didn't do nearly as much comedy as I did when I got a little older, but, and also there were a lot of divisions. You sort of either did musicals or you did straight plays and it was hard to get into an audition even for a straight play. And the truth is I think that a lot of us who thought we were better than we were as you get better, you see when you really, wasn't a very strong actor.1 (58m 43s):Right. But there's something about that. What I'm noticing and what you're talking about is like, there's something about the confidence that you had by maybe thinking that you might've been a little better than you were that actually behooves young actors and performers that, you know, cause when Gina and I talked to these people were like, oh my God, they have a healthy ego, which actually helps them to not give up as where I was like, I'm terrible. I'm giving up at the first hour.3 (59m 9s):Exactly. Right. Right. And, and it, and it goes back and forth. It's like a CSO one day, you feel like, oh yeah, I'm good at this. I can walk it. I get, I'm like, I'm okay with this. And the next day you just to hide under the bed, I think that's sort of the way it goes. I didn't know that people who worked on Broadway even then all had coaches and teachers and support systems and you know, being kind of a little more of a lone Wolf, which I was, and still fight against in a way I come against that a lot, for whatever reasons, you know, whatever it doesn't work, what to be a lone Wolf.3 (59m 54s):Yeah. Yeah. You can't do this alone. You can't do it without a support system. It's just too hard because when I actually had the best opportunity I had, which was being part of a chorus line, it was harder than I thought to just be normal, come up with a good performance every night, you know, it was up and down and loaded and that you lost your voice and had nobody to talk to because you couldn't talk anyway. And we didn't have the internet yet. You know, there was so many, it was so much pressure and so much, and I hadn't really figured out how to create that support system up for myself.3 (1h 0m 42s):And it was harder, harder than it needed to be. Did you ultimately find it with the cast? No. Oh, not really where they mean, oh, none of the cast was fine. It wasn't that anybody was mean it's that I didn't take care of myself and I didn't know how I was supposed to take care of my shirt. How old were you when you were cast in a chorus line? 27? Maybe I was, I was young and, but I wasn't that young. I just, but it wasn't that C w it was a strange situation to, I was, I had already had one Broadway show, so I had done, and then I had gone out of town to bucks county Playhouse.3 (1h 1m 25s):And did west side story Romeo was your first Broadway show. I'm sorry. It was called Minnie's boys. Oh, that was it. That was my, I did. And it was a show about the Marx brothers. Right. And I don't know if you know who Louis. We would probably do Louis Stadol and Louis J Staglin who works with, he works with Nathan Lane a lot. Oh yeah. Yeah. He's like second bun and he's incredibly talented. He played Groucho. Okay. We were all 25 years old. We were kids. We were right out of college. And the weirdest part of all was that the mother was played by Shelley winters. And this was a musical. What a weird you've really. Okay. So then you went onto chorus line.3 (1h 2m 6s):Well then, well then in between that, this is like, you know, then, then I went out of town to bucks county. I love being in bucks county for a year. We did west side story. We did Romeo and Juliet during the week. We do them together, one in the morning, one in the afternoon for high school kids. And then on the weekends, we do one of the, and I was the only person in the cast who liked dancing at 10 o'clock in the morning. You know, I didn't mind doing west side at 10 in the morning. I'd been up at eight, being a demonstrator for Mary Hinkson, teaching people how to do a contraction. So I didn't care. I love working in the daytime. That's what I play with your food is such a nice success. My lunchtime theaters here, I get tired at night.3 (1h 2m 47s):I don't know.2 (1h 2m 49s):Most people do wait. So was the, was the audition process for chorus line?3 (1h 2m 56s):I have a great story. I can tell you what my story is. Okay. So I, I was in, I don't know what I was doing. I had done a lot of off-Broadway work. I had been doing, I had been working a lot. And then of course there were the year where I didn't work. And then I went off to south North Carolina and played Nellie Forbush in south Pacific, in the dinner theater for three months. And I loved that. Actually, I think it was one of those times I had a job and a boyfriend and it was like a relief. It was wonderful to have like a life and then do the show at night. You know, I, I enjoyed that a lot and I didn't, you know, it was a big part and I didn't panic about seeing it.3 (1h 3m 37s):And it was just, I learned a lot from doing a part like that. I was doing Fiddler on the roof at a dinner theater in New Jersey, down the street from where my folks lived. And occasionally my mom would stop by her rehearsal and watch the wedding scene. Honest to God. I'm not kidding. She's like, Carol, you ever gonna get married? Are you ever gonna? Okay. So I'm doing Fiddler on the roof, in New Jersey. And there's a guy in the cast, one of the bottle dancers who were dropping off at night on 55th street, because he's working on this little musical about dancers and he would bring in monologues and he'd asked me to read them at rehearsal because he wanted to hear them out loud.3 (1h 4m 25s):And there was some stuff about this place to ever hear the peppermint lounge back in the studio. Right. It was a disco thing, but it was also a place where there was something. I remember one the couch girls, girls who would just lie on the couches and the guys, I mean really crazy stuff that did not make it into the show, but some interesting stuff. And I was playing the eldest daughter sidle, and it's a terrific part for me. So I was good. Yeah. And Nick knew I was a dancer. Anyway, this little show called the chorus line was in its workshop. Second workshop. They had already done the I, cause I was not a Michael Bennett dancer. I didn't, you know, I, I, I had auditioned for my goal once for the tour of two for the Seesaw.3 (1h 5m 10s):And it was the leading part and I didn't get it. I auditioned, I sang and I read and I read and I sang and I didn't get the part. And I came home and I was like in hysterics for like five days. I just, you know, I, I didn't get the part year and a half later, I'm doing Fiddler on the roof with Nick, Dante in New Jersey. And somebody leaves the second workshop and Nick brings up my name because there's a job all of a sudden to cover, to be in the opening and to cover a couple of parts next, bring up my name. And Michael Bennett says, wait a minute. I know her. I know she's an actress and she's a singer. Can she dance?3 (1h 5m 52s):So I showed up the next morning and I danced for 10 minutes and I got the job. I mean, I think, wow. Yeah. That's a great story.2 (1h 6m 1s):No. So that means you didn't have to participate in3 (1h 6m 4s):Callbacks or nothing. Oh, I started that day. I mean, honestly, it was Fiddler on the roof, you know what, I don't remember whether, how it went. Cause we were already in performance tour or something, you know, I, I it's a long time ago, so I don't really remember, but I know that this particular story is the absolute truth. That's fantastic. That2 (1h 6m 27s):Was it a hit right away3 (1h 6m 29s):Chorus line. Well, it wasn't, we were in previews. I'm no, we weren't even previous the second workshop, which means it was still being figured out. And when I came to the first rehearsal and sat and watched what was going on, I could not believe what I was seeing because the truth of what was happening on stage and the way it was being built was astounding. It was absolutely astounding because something about it was so bizarre. Oh. And also, also Marvin Hamlisch was the rehearsal pianist on Minnie's boys.3 (1h 7m 10s):Wow. So I knew him a little bit, not well, you know, but he was the rehearsal pianist that nobody would listen to a show about the Marx brothers, Marvin would say, wait, this is the Marx brothers. You got to have a naked girl running out of the orchestra pit. You gotta, you gotta, and of course, nobody would listen to him. Wait a minute, just turn this off, stop, stop, turn off. Sorry. So I couldn't get over what I was seeing. And I, I knew from the beginning, of course, I think most of us did that. Something very, very unique was going on and it was always changing. Like Donna McKechnie came in late at the audition, all dressed up in like a fur thing.3 (1h 7m 56s):And it was like, I'm sorry, I'm late. I'm sorry. I'm late. And then Zach says, would you put on dance clothes? And she said, no, no, wait a minute. Anyway, you couldn't help. But know sort of, you just kind of put,2 (1h 8m 8s):I mean, I remember seeing it when I was a kid and not, not being able to relate as an actor, but now that I think back, it just must've felt so gratifying to be seen for all of the, you know, because like we w the Joe Montana episode, we3 (1h 8m 28s):Haven't listened to yet, but I'm looking forward to2 (1h 8m 30s):It here today. But he was saying, I love3 (1h 8m 33s):Him2 (1h 8m 34s):For you. You were saying that when he won the Tony and everybody would say, well, it's like to win the Tony, what's it? Like he said, it's like, you won the lottery, but you been buying tickets for 15 years. You know, that's the part of acting that people now, I think it's a pretty common knowledge that it's really difficult to be an actor, but I don't know how Hmm, how known that was then. And it just, must've been so gratifying for all of those people. I mean, who are living in their real life? The story of that musical. Yeah.3 (1h 9m 9s):I think that that's true. And also, I mean, it really did come out of people's experiences. Those stories are so, so to be part of something like that, and down at the public theater, which of course it was a vol place to be, you know, you, you knew that Meryl Streep was walking down the hallway and you knew that. I mean, talk about confidence. I mean, I don't know if you've read her new book, no book about her. No, it's worth the time I listened to it. Actually, I didn't read it. I listened to, it's quite wonderful because you see a very confident person who's working on creating who she is.1 (1h 9m 47s):Do you feel, I feel like you have a really strong sense of confidence about yourself too. Where did that come from? Would you agree? First of all, that you have, it sounds like you had some comps, some real chutzpah as a youngster and maybe now as well. Where'd that come from3 (1h 10m 5s):Beats me. I have it now because I, I, I, I've had a lot of, a lot of experience. And I, I think that, that, I, I think I know a lot about this, but I don't know that I had it. The trick was to have this kind of confidence when it really matters. Yes. And I think I had it, like if I was in an off-Broadway show, I could say, I don't think that's good enough. Could you restage this blah, blah, blah. Or if I'm in North Carolina, I'm not, I think we need to dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. But when it comes down to the real nitty gritty of standing up for yourself, when it really, really matters, boy, that's harder than it looks.3 (1h 10m 51s):You know, even things like, I mean, my character, when I eventually took over the role of Miralis, which I under, you know, I was we've covered all these parts. There were nine of us. We sang in the little booth in the wings. We had microphones and little headsets. And the coolest part of all was Jerry Schoenfeld, who was the chairman of the Schubert organization would bring any visiting dignitary who was visiting the city that he was showing around his theaters. He would bring them into our little booth. And then we would watch the show from stage left in our little booth while we're singing, give me the ball, give him the ball. Cause half the dancers on the stage, cause stop singing because they had a solo coming up.3 (1h 11m 31s):So, you know, singing in a musical is not easy. You know, there's a lot of pressure and you got to hit high notes and you, you know, you just wake up in the middle of the night going torture, torture, and you have to work through that and finally go, fuck it. You know, fuck it. I don't care what I weigh. Fuck it. I don't care if I, if I can't hit the high note, but it, it takes a long time to get there. You know, I see people who do this all the time. I don't know how they live. I don't know how they sleep at night. There's no wonder people like to hire singers who have graduated from programs where they really understand their voice, know how to protect that, which you don't, you know, you have to learn, you have to learn how to really take.3 (1h 12m 24s):That's why, you know, it's wondering about ballet companies now have misuses and we didn't have any of that. You were hanging out there alone. I felt maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I felt. And if I was vulnerable or if I didn't feel well, and I was like, oh, what am I going to do? I can't tell anybo

On chisme#45, I had an amazing chat with Jenny Ramirez, life coach and co founder of She Alpha Co. We talked about how growing up as a Latina, first child and immigrant parents impacted the limiting beliefs about success and happiness. Jenny shared part of her journey on how she started shifting her mindset and learned how to identify the beliefs that were blocking her from a happier and fulfilled life. Jenny Ramirez is a Peruvian native who travels internationally to learn and develop concepts with women in business. She is the founder of She Alpha Co., a Tampa Bay company focused on empowerment and education for women leaders. She utilizes her skills to create collaborations aimed at achieving common goals and running successful business venues. Jenny proudly advocates for warriors with mental illness by sharing her own journey and empowers women struggling with self-confidence by teaching them how to tap into their inner alpha! Outside of business, you can find her breaking cultural barriers by traveling, dancing, mentoring, and collaborating with non-profits to give back to the community. Please follow her and her journey on IG: @lifewithjenra @shelalphaco https://www.shealphaco.com/ --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/chismethatmatterspodcast/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/chismethatmatterspodcast/support

Hosts Ty Dane Gonzalez and Colby Patnode go over your Mariners trade proposals for Fan Fiction Friday, including ideas for Jose Ramirez, Tarik Skubal, Mike Moustakas and more! Be sure to follow or subscribe to Locked On Mariners wherever you prefer your podcasts! For questions and other inquiries, email: lockedonmariners@gmail.com Follow the show on Twitter: @LO_Mariners | @danegnzlz | @CPat11 For more of Ty and Colby, check out their Patreon: patreon.com/controlthezone/ Built Bar Built Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you'll get 15% off your next order. BetOnline AG There is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I love to connect with other women who are empowering women to live their best lives regardless of their circumstances. She is so inspirational to me. She is a powerful women who is helping women how ever she can. Please share with others as we truly believe that are those who are suffering and need the help that Jennifer provides. Jennifer Ramirez is an author, entrepreneur, and speaker that is passionate about helping women live their best lives. She is the Founder of the nonprofit organization, &Rise, that empowers women to be the ultimate versions of themselves no matter what adversities they've faced and she is also the CEO of &Flourish, where she helps female survivors of abuse to get rid of their emotional pain once and for all so they can Flourish into the person God created them to be!   Here are some resources of where you can find her.   https://www.womenrisechicago.org/single-mom-resources &Rise website - www.womenrisechicago.org &Flourish website - www.andflourish.co &Rise FB page - https://www.facebook.com/womenrisechicago/ &Flourish FB page - https://www.facebook.com/andflourish/ IG page - https://www.instagram.com/andrise_women/ IG page - https://www.instagram.com/andrise_women/ ----------------------------------------------- The Journey to Joy Journal is available now.  My journal is available . Do you journal? Listen to the episode to hear how journaling helped me.  And order your today here. Thank you for listening today.  -------------------------------- Wondering what supplements might be best for you ? Take this FREE health QUIZ  --------------------------- Like this podcast ? Want to support it?  Buy me a cup of coffee here. https://www.buymeacoffee.com/juggling   Give it a 5 start review, subscribe and share . Thank you !  Join me on Facebook in my Juggling the Chaos of Recovery tribe  Like what you hear about Shaklee products?  Find it here on my website  Book some time on my calendar for a Discovery Call Here. Have a story to share?  I'd love to feature you as a guest on my podcast.  Click through this link and find the application and schedule  Let's keep sharing the great word of recovery and wellness    

01. Denis First – My Desire 02. Desmind, Pldn – Night Rider 03. Rain Radio Dj Craig Gorman – Talk About 04. Squid Kids, 71 Digits – Red Light, Green Light 05. Oneil, Titov – No Stress 06. Minelli – Rampampam (Ramirez & Yudzhin Remix) 07. Dj Peretse – Vertu 08. Filatov & Karas, Busy Reno – Au Revoir 09. Cat Dealers, Lauren Mayhew – Hush 10. Twocolors – Lovefool 11. Alok, Daniel Blume – Rapture 12. Dj Quba, Sandra K, Dayana – Samba 13. Travis Scott, Hvme – Goosebumps 14. Ian Carey, Michelle Shellers, Manyfew, Joe Stone – Keep On Rising 15. Nessa Barrett, Jxdn, D. Anuchin – La Di Die 16. Dynoro, Gigi D'agostino – In My Mind 17. Rihanna Ft. Calvin Harris – We Found Love (Elemer Remix) 18. Tiësto, Jonas Blue, Rita Ora – Ritual (Soner Kara Remix) 19. Roxen, Dmnds, Strange Fruits Music – Money Money 20. Alok, Sofi Tukker, Inna – It Don't Matter 21. Ilkay Sencan & Faruk Sabanci – All The Things She Said 22. Hafex – On My Way 23. Minelli – Nothing Hurts 24. Farruko, Tiesto – Pepas 25. Laidback Luke, Tribbs, Bertie Scott – Whistle 26. Ava Max – Omg What's Happening 27. Atb, Topic, A7s – Your Love (9pm Ramirez & Yudzhin Remix) 28. Cassette – My Way (Ramirez & Yudzhin Remix) 29. Eva Simons, Sidney Samson – Bludfire (Ps_Project Remix) 30. Black Eyed Peas, Twocolors – Girl Like Me 31. Nelly Furtado, Quarterhead – All Good Things (Come To An End) 32. Aritmiya, Lazy Cat – Bam Bam Bam 33. Ava Max – My Head & My Heart (Dj Trojan Remix) 34. Vanotek, Denitia, Arroy. Sergey Raf – Someone 35. Max, Johann – Hotel Room Service 36. Burak Yeter – Just Wanna Know You (Summer 2.0) 37. Lost Frequencies, Calum Scott – Where Are You Now 38. Ed Marquis, Emie – Pon De Replay 39. Remady, Jessica Jolia – A Little Taste 40. Meduza Feat. Dermot Kennedy – Paradise (Djsplcy Remix) 41. Oneil, Miscris – La La La– La La La (D.Hash & Upfinger Remix ) 42. Frey – Tom's Diner 43. The Tech Thieves, One True God – Keep You 44. 50 Cent, Imanbek – In Da Club 45. Swanky Tunes – Till One 46. Marnik Pollyanna – Made Of Stars 47. Basstrologe, Voost – Somebody To Love 48. Ron May – Lose Control 49. Junona Boys – Relax 50. Masked Wolf – Astronaut In The Ocean (Nedel Remix) 51. Dua Lipa – Love Again (Amice Remix) 52. Bodybangers, Stephen Oaks, Just Mike – Quit Playing Games (With My Heart) 53. Popp – Take On Me 54. Alan Walker, K–391, Tungevaag, Mangoo – Play (Maxun Remix) 55. Afrojack & David Guetta – Hero 56. Swanky Tunes – One Of Us 57. Dance Bridge & Tarabrin Brothers Feat. Sophie Karen – Aventură 58. Filv, Kush Kush – Balenciaga 59. Parah Dice – Hot 60. Fisher – Losing It 61. R3hab & Amba Shepherd – Smells Like Teen Spirit 62. Jaova – Move Your Feet 63. Tamta Feat. Stephane Legar – Yala 64. Sander Van Doorn – I Dream 65. Bodyworx, Moti – Sweat 66. Going Deeper – Broken 67. Alan Walker, A$Ap Rocky, Uslord – Live Fast (Pubgm) 68. Spada – Stay Here 69. Rasster, Tara Rautenbach – What Happened 70. Benzi Feat Bhad Bhabie, 24hrs & Rich The Kid – Whatcha Gon Do (Hypression Remix) 71. Hypanda, Raphi – What Goes Around 72. Eastblock Bitches & Ostblockschlampen – Sunglasses At Night 73. Merdy – Speaker (The Bestseller Remix) 74. Robin Schulz, Wes – Alane 75. Tomcraft, Moguai Feat. Ilira – Happiness 76. Klaas – Sweet Dreams 77. The Black Eyed Peas, J Balvin – Ritmo (Bad Boys For Life) 78. Alok, Ilkay Sencan, Tove Lo – Don't Say Goodbye

01. Minelli - Nothing Hurts 02. Люся Чеботина, Ramirez, D. Anuchin - Солнце Монако 03. Lost Frequencies, Calum Scott - Where Are You Now 04. Denis First - My Desire

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With only 570 cases ALL over Texas, this project is finally out in the market, found at Specs or Total Wine and More, made with tremendous amount of effort from everyone in the brewhouse to our in-house artist! We bring to you a 12-pack 12 Unique Brews 12 Day Advent Case of Beer, each with their own Trading Card that you can enjoy with us LIVE on our Instagram starting November 24th, the day before Turkey Day! In this episode, Dave expresses how rewarding it was to see everyone and everything come together after months and months of planning and executing piece by piece, we get to hear the perspective from Lorne, our packaging manager, we are blessed by the beer and metal gods and talk with Taylor, our production manager, and meet our brewer Michelle for the first time! We hear their favorite and least favorite parts of the whole process and its cool to hear for someone who has no idea what goes on behind closed doors, which is what this podcast is all about. Thank You for the Continued Support!! The Real Season 2 is here!!Join us on Instagram November 24th @southernstarbrewingco

Hour 1 * Guest: Bryan Rust – Over the past 50 years, Rust Coins has been working to educate customers about precious metals – RustCoinAndGift.com * Honest Money Report: Gold: $1865.00, Silver: $25.27! * Happy Veterans Day, (originally known as Armistice Day) is a federal holiday in the United States observed annually on November 11, for honoring military veterans. * Inflation Transitory vs. Persistent Debate Rages On. * Is Crypto the future of money or the biggest scam? – Sam Claims it's both! * Here's Why US Supply Chain Problems Will Only Get Worse. * The “Everything Shortage” is the beginning of the end. * The Biden administration will most likely rely on informants to enforce its COVID-19 vaccine mandate on employers, experts say. Hour 2 * Just who is Kimberly Guilfoyle? – First Lady of San Francisco – In 2001, Guilfoyle married Gov. Gavin Newsom – She worked at Fox News from 2006 to 2018 and co-hosted The Five on the network. * Newsom's vanishing act linked to horrific COVID-shot reaction, reports allege – WND.com * Two reports have linked the days-long disappearance of California Gov. Gavin Newsom to COVID shots, and the reaction he suffered from them. The source “asked not to be identified, but described Newsom's symptoms as similar to those suffered by patients with Guillain-Barre syndrome. * Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the chief of the CHD, said, “if it's true the governor has suffered debilitating neurological injuries following vaccination, it raises grave ethical questions about his seemingly dishonest efforts to conceal his injuries while implementing aggressive policies to force the children and working people of California to endure similar risks.” * It's FINALLY happening: Trump is officially launching ‘Truth Social' his new social media site – Follow the Truth. * TRUTH Social is America's “Big Tent” social media platform that encourages an open, free, and honest global conversation without discriminating against political ideology – Join the Waiting List! * Ron Paul: Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla: Critics Are Criminals! * pfizer ceo albert bourla says that vaccine refusers are murderous criminals who seek to stop the new way of life trying to come in. * “It is possible to receive vaccines and not develop antibodies,” says Dr. Ramirez. “This can be a failure of the individual's immune system to respond to the vaccine and to generate antibody responses.”. * New data was released by the CDC showing that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant can carry detectable viral loads similar to those of people who are unvaccinated. * Moderna's Vaccine Creates Twice as Many Antibodies as Pfizer's Vaccine: Study – By – according to a new research letter published Monday in JAMA: The Journal of the American Medical Association – Carolyn Crist. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/loving-liberty/support

#FJB shirts available at chingobling.com  Unlock Chingo chats by upgrading tiers today. https://www.patreon.com/RedPillTamales Rate and Review the show, share it with a friend, and leave your feedback on IG Follow the Instagrams @RealChingoBling @WhatDidHeSaid @Robgtv Subscribe to the YouTube Channel CBTV Huge Shout out to our Patreon T.I.A. Captains/Producers Mathew Carter Alejandro Gene Lopez Luis Gandara Iconpowersolutionsllc.com Dalila Newhard Raymond Lopez Victor Pallares Dr. Albert Silva Tim D Brain A @kbt_lokeg Mike Bailey WESTEX325 JP

#FJB shirts available at chingobling.com  Unlock Chingo chats by upgrading tiers today. https://www.patreon.com/RedPillTamales Rate and Review the show, share it with a friend, and leave your feedback on IG Follow the Instagrams @RealChingoBling @WhatDidHeSaid @Robgtv Subscribe to the YouTube Channel CBTV Huge Shout out to our Patreon T.I.A. Captains/Producers Mathew Carter Alejandro Gene Lopez Luis Gandara Iconpowersolutionsllc.com Dalila Newhard Raymond Lopez Victor Pallares Dr. Albert Silva Tim D Brain A @kbt_lokeg Mike Bailey WESTEX325 JP

Uno de los desahogos más necesitados de nuestra comunidad. En esta ocasión conversamos con Isabel Ramirez, publicista y Gerente de Operaciones de Xarxa Agency. Nos comenta sus historias y dificultades como empresaria, mujer e inmigrante. Cuáles son las percepciones sobre las mujeres a la cabeza de empresas, lo que pensamos de nosotras mismas y consejos para romper paredes del patriarcado. Puedes seguirla en https://www.instagram.com/xarxaagency/ Siguenos en nuestras redes: https://www.instagram.com/desahogoentreamigas/

* Just who is Kimberly Guilfoyle? - First Lady of San Francisco - In 2001, Guilfoyle married Gov. Gavin Newsom - She worked at Fox News from 2006 to 2018 and co-hosted The Five on the network. * Newsom's vanishing act linked to horrific COVID-shot reaction, reports allege - WND.com * Two reports have linked the days-long disappearance of California Gov. Gavin Newsom to COVID shots, and the reaction he suffered from them. The source "asked not to be identified, but described Newsom's symptoms as similar to those suffered by patients with Guillain-Barre syndrome. * Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the chief of the CHD, said, "if it's true the governor has suffered debilitating neurological injuries following vaccination, it raises grave ethical questions about his seemingly dishonest efforts to conceal his injuries while implementing aggressive policies to force the children and working people of California to endure similar risks." * It's FINALLY happening: Trump is officially launching 'Truth Social' his new social media site - Follow the Truth. * TRUTH Social is America's “Big Tent” social media platform that encourages an open, free, and honest global conversation without discriminating against political ideology - Join the Waiting List! * Ron Paul: Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla: Critics Are Criminals! * pfizer ceo albert bourla says that vaccine refusers are murderous criminals who seek to stop the new way of life trying to come in. * "It is possible to receive vaccines and not develop antibodies," says Dr. Ramirez. "This can be a failure of the individual's immune system to respond to the vaccine and to generate antibody responses.". * New data was released by the CDC showing that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant can carry detectable viral loads similar to those of people who are unvaccinated. * Moderna's Vaccine Creates Twice as Many Antibodies as Pfizer's Vaccine: Study - By - according to a new research letter published Monday in JAMA: The Journal of the American Medical Association - Carolyn Crist.

David Haugh and Gabe Ramirez were joined by Dan Bernstein and Leila Rahimi for transition, where Ramirez discussed his favorite celebrity encounters at Score sister station B96 and more. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Razorback women's basketball team opens a new season tonight, and we catch up with senior Amber Ramirez. Plus, Z reacts to Arkansas' season-opening win vs. Mercer. ---------- Want more? Subscribe to Hogs Plus to view video versions of every single episode. Also, follow The Razorback Daily on social media for behind-the-scenes content.  Twitter: @RazorbackDaily Instagram: @RazorbackDaily Facebook: facebook.com/RazorbackDaily

A case in which the Court will decide what kind of aid a spiritual adviser can and cannot provide during an execution.

Intro: Gina is co-hostless and doing her best. PLEASE SUBSCRIBE, RATE, and REVIEW you beautiful Survivors!Interview: SUNY Geneseo, Boston University, Tisch, Juilliard, Playwriting MFAs, competition in writing programs, Marsha Norman, Cry It Out, MAID on Netflix, Hollywood sea changes, female-centered shows, domestic violence, emotional abuse, Hulu, theatre is behind, denial, making mistakes, bad reviews.COMPLETE TRANSCRIPT (unedited):1 (10s):And I'm Gina Polizzi. We went to theater school2 (12s):Together. We survived it.1 (14s):We didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all2 (21s):Survived theater school. And you will too. Are we famous yet?1 (34s):Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. This is Gina. This week. We are sons' cohost, just one host today. I'm missing my better half BAAs. His boss is actually attending to a friend who got terrible health news this week. And she is in her very boss like way being there for her friend and being the amazing person and friend that she is, which is why everybody loves buzz. Anyway, she'll be back next week if you're not. But today we have, honestly, you guys, this is the interview I have been waiting for.1 (1m 19s):Molly Smith. Metzler is a writer extraordinaire. You may have heard of her latest project made number three on Netflix entering its 28th day online, which has some very special meaning for Netflix that I hope to know more about one day and previous to me being the showrunner for maid, she also worked on shameless and several other successful television shows. And before that she was a playwright. And actually I got to know her work because I directed a play of hers called cry it out.1 (1m 59s):And it was a fantastic experience. And I started communicating with her over email when I was directing. And I was so impressed with the way that she responded to me. I mean, a that she responded to me at all that she was available to me at all. And not something you always get with a playwright and B that she really took her time with her responses and see that her responses ended up being pretty impactful for me, just not necessarily related to the play, but as a person. And I'm a little embarrassed that when I talked to her and I told her the way that she had impacted me, I just started seriously just crying, crying, crying.1 (2m 45s):And I was having this thought like, I, this is not a moment I want to be crying. And I'm generally in life. I, I welcomed here as, as a person who struggles to access their emotions. I do. I welcome a good cry, but it not want to be crying to Molly Smith Metzler in this great interview. But you know, it is what it is. If I'm going to be honest, I have to be honest. I can't be choicy about when I'm being myself. That's my, that's my mantra. Recently you have to be yourself in all the ways. Some of those ways are ugly and disgusting and you know, unsavory, and some of them are fine and some of them are be even beautiful.1 (3m 31s):So I'm working on embracing the, a mess that I am, but I really think you're going to enjoy this interview with Molly. She's fantastic. Even without the always wonderful presidents, presidents presence, maybe she should be president even without the always wonderful presence of BAAs. We still managed to have a great conversation and actually that whole experience of her at the last minute, not being able to do this and this being the first time we're doing this with one host, turns out to have been a good thing for us to go through, to learn that.1 (4m 14s):Yeah, sometimes we're not both going to be available and sometimes when I'm not available, she'll be doing an episode on her own. So, you know, whatever we're growing, changing learning, Hey, we're in 22 countries. Now, if you have a, not a subscribed to this podcast, please do. If you have not rated this podcast or given it a review, please, please, please, please, please, please do it seriously. Please do it, please. I'm begging you. Please do it, but okay. Anyway, here's Molly Smith message.0 (4m 53s):Well,1 (5m 0s):No problem whatsoever. Fortunately, my partner is Jen. Her very good friend just got diagnosed with cancer yesterday and she's with her right now helping. So she's not going to be able to join us. This is actually the first time we're doing an interview with just me. So we'll see how it goes.3 (5m 23s):Yeah,1 (5m 24s):It is. And she just, she has a lot of experience with, with cancer. So she's sort of like the first people, first person people call, which is like,3 (5m 38s):Yeah,1 (5m 38s):Exactly, exactly. But anyway, congratulations, Molly Smith. Metso you survived theater school and you're going to have to clarify for me because it looks like you went to four schools, but you didn't go to four theater schools. Did you?3 (5m 52s):I went to four schools. I did. They're not all theater schools, but I went to undergrad, SUNY Geneseo in Western New York and I was an English major. And then I went to Boston university and got a master's in creative writing with a concentration in playwriting. And then I went to Tisch and got an MFA in playwriting dramatic writing. And then I went to Juilliard, which is, you don't really get a degree there. It's called an artist diploma, but it's just finishing school basically.1 (6m 20s):Oh, okay. So the decision to, to do the MFA, were you thinking at that time that you, maybe you were going to be a teacher, I'm always curious about MFA's and writing because you know, if you learned what you needed to know and you know, why not just put yourself out there and be a writer?3 (6m 40s):I think it's very scary to take that jump. The thing about school that I got addicted to is that I'm actually way too social to be a writer. I like being around other writers and every, and every time you get a graduate program, you're with a bunch of writers and you have deadlines and you kind of, you know, it's a really public way to study writing versus alone in your apartment while way to say, you know, and I kept getting academic support to attend the programs. And so that was part of it. I'm not sure I would have gone deep into debt to get all those degrees, but I think giving me aid, I kept going. Yeah.1 (7m 16s):Okay, fantastic. And did you always know from day one that you, I mean, since you were in high school anyway, that you wanted to be a writer that you wanted to write dramatically?3 (7m 26s):I always loved writing. I had journals and I'm from a very young age. I love to write, but I had a sort of more academic feeling about it. I thought I was going to get a PhD in English and join the academy and be a professor. And I didn't know, I was creative in the sense of dramatic writing until my senior year of college. When I took a playwriting class, I didn't know I was a playwright. And I also didn't know. I was funny. Those two things emerged at the same time. Wow.1 (7m 54s):Oh, so you didn't have experience with theater before then?3 (7m 58s):Well, I grew up a ballerina, so I had a great sense of the stage and the relationship between an audience and someone onstage. I really like, I understood light and the power of an audience, but I, no, I didn't grow up a theater nerd at all. I grew up a nerd nerd, like an actual,1 (8m 18s):So that must've been like just a whole new, exciting world. Did you decide pretty much right away that you were going to be getting your MFA when you discovered that you liked to play with?3 (8m 27s):Yeah, I did. I took this introduction to play right in class and it was one of those things. People talk about this, like in a romantic relationship where you're just like, it changes your whole life. And I didn't have that in a romantic relationship, but I had that with playwriting. One-on-one where, you know, I just, I, it came, I don't want to say easily to me cause it was really easy to play it, but it came, it was like a big release in my life that I arrived at playwriting and loved doing it. And it's like a big jigsaw and you can stay up all night doing it. And I knew from the very first, basically from the first act of a play that I wrote that it's what I wanted to do. I'm very lucky. It was very clear.1 (9m 5s):Yeah. Yeah. That is really lucky. So we have talked to almost 60 people now, the majority of them have been actors. So we've really delved deep into like everything about being an actor, especially at the age of undergrad and what that's like to be growing up, you know, just growing up and then trying to figure out yourself well enough to be an actor and all the stuff that comes along with that, including, you know, the competitive best with your cohort. But I imagine that's what it, well, I don't want to imagine what it's like, what is it like with your cohort when you're all writers and you're presumably reading each other's work critiquing each other's work, does it get really competitive?3 (9m 55s):I suspect that it can, you know, I feel very lucky cause I have never experienced that directly in a graduate program situation. Part of it is I think I went to really great places where everyone had gotten in was incredibly talented and brought such a unique point of view and voice that none of us were trying to raise the same place. So it was really easy to just support each other. And also it's fun, you know, you're reading it aloud. So if something's in the south, you're trying an accent and it's super bad cause you're a playwright. So I found it, you know, I became close with the other writers and I mean, I'm married. One of them, I call him my husband, he and I were in the same graduate program at Tisch. And there is something beautiful about meeting someone in a writing workshop because you're just sort of naked.3 (10m 41s):It's all, you know, I imagine it's like, I understand my actors fall in love too. It's like, you're just so vulnerable and you know, each other in a deep way. But my experience has been that writers are pretty, pretty darn supportive of each other. And if you're not, you kind of don't fit in, like if you're a jerk, if you're competitive jerk, like you're not meant to be a playwright, playwrights need to love people. Cause that's what we do, you know? Yeah.1 (11m 1s):Yeah. That's a very good point. Actually, we talked to CISA Hutchinson yesterday and basically said, yeah, isn't she awesome?3 (11m 8s):She's in a beautiful inside and out like just, but yeah.1 (11m 12s):Yeah. She, and she echoed the same thing in what you're saying. So I guess we're going to stop asking this question about competition. It's just that it's so much of a part of like the act. And I think it's part of just how the program is structured. I mean, you're literally up for the same parts against each other and they PO posted on a wall and everybody shows up to3 (11m 35s):Absolutely. And you know, I was at Juilliard where they still cut people. You know, that system has changed a little bit, but I was at the, the version of Juilliard that was structured to drop 10% of the class out. And I feel like you don't get, I don't know. I learned a lot about that cause they cut playwrights as well. And I feel like that doesn't, that doesn't bring forth good creative work from anybody that pressure of, you know, is Sally going to get cut instead of me that's that's, that's not good skills. I don't think1 (12m 5s):It's true. And at the same time, like a lot of the people who were cut from our program went on to have better careers than the majority of us. So it's just like not a lot of rhyme or reason to it.3 (12m 15s):It's like SNL. Yeah. I mean, yes. It's not a predictor. You got it. Right.1 (12m 20s):Exactly. Okay. So you graduated or you've finally finished school with Julliard after doing it for, for a number of years then what happened next? You were, you were married or you're in a relationship and w how did, how do two writers figure out what their next steps are going to be when school's over?3 (12m 40s):Well, I don't know how to writers in general would do, but I can tell you how Colin and I did it, which is that we we've never been competitive because we write really different plays. Like I am talking to, you know, especially as a playwright, my, my work tends to, I mean, I've written Boulevard, comedy. It's like, I really like to laugh. My husband's play is everyone's on meth and they're an Appalachian. It's like, we are, we are really young and yang. And, but I think being, I really recommend being married to, or spending your life with another writer, if you are a writer because they get it and they get you in like a deep, deep way. So if you have to stay up to four o'clock in the morning, cause you're inspired and you have to finish the scene, you know, there's, there's just a, there's no jealousy about that.3 (13m 25s):There's an acceptance. And our, it really, I think I often say, I don't think I'd be a playwright. Certainly won't be any of the things that I am a mother, you know, like everything is because it's all. And I, I had someone who believed in me more than I believed in myself and at points that is everything because, you know, your play opens in New York, you get just the worst reviews in the world and you take, you know, you'd take to the bed and you don't think you're ever going to write again. And it's so important who you decided to spend your life with because, you know, con only saw me as a writer first and foremost. And you know, it's like at the same goes for him. So we, yeah, but just technically do we have money? You know, we lived in a apartment in Brooklyn that we got to kind of like a hookup.3 (14m 9s):My husband was, he managed the bar downstairs, so he knew the guy. And so we got this apartment that we could actually afford, but we both worked full time waiting tables and bartending. And then if I get into the O'Neil, for instance, he would do extra bartending support me being at the O'Neil. And you know, he went up to LA for a few months and did a bunch of meetings and screenwriting stuff. And I supported him with the Juilliard money. Like we just have always worked it out. And for the last handful of years, when we finally don't have to, we can both be working in. It's great.1 (14m 39s):Yeah. That's nice that, by the way, that makes so much sense about the difference in your writing because in watching made, you know, I remember getting to the end of the first episode that he wrote and not, not having known throughout the episode that he wrote it and being like, wow, this is really, really different than Molly's writing. And of course it, it was his, and I kind of tend towards that darker stuff too. So yeah. And by the way, the series is fantastic. It is so good. And how you were having such a moment, you're getting great reviews. People are loving. I saw even today, it's number three on Netflix. How are you doing with success? Because people assume that it's all great, but I'm guessing it's not.1 (15m 23s):And I'm guessing it's kind of scary too.3 (15m 27s):Oh, well this is all pretty, just great. You know, like I think there's probably two things that are tricky about it, which I'll tell you in a second, but the fact is, it's just, it's great. Especially because it's made, you know, made is the closest to play writing. I've done for the screen. I see the show as 10 individual plays and it's really just about cleaning and feelings. It's the most character driven thing I've seen on TV in a long time. There's no murder. There's no cool accents. We're not in Hawaii. It's just about one woman's cleaning and feelings. And every time we turned in an episode, I thought Netflix would call and be like, you know, this is too weird.3 (16m 9s):Like the couch can't eat her. That's just too weird, you know, but they let me make this like, you know, artistic, I think like they're beautiful thing. And I didn't really believe that they were going to air it. And then I didn't really believe that people were going, gonna watch it. And so the fact that the fact that it is exactly what I wanted it to be and people love it. It's very, I don't really, I think it's really exciting just as a writer, it's exciting. It's like, oh, maybe we can return to doing harder things on the screen and on the stage again, you know, I think audiences weren't deterred by the fact that it was difficult, you know, they leaned in. And so I feel like it's really, it's mostly just fantastic.3 (16m 49s):I am surprised that people love it this much, but no, I'm just, I'm so proud of it. So it feels great. That's all there is. Do it.1 (16m 57s):What were the, you said there you'll tell me about the two things that have been challenging.3 (17m 1s):Yes, it is challenging. I, and I know you'll relate to this, but coming up in the theater, there are so many of us that, that are just working hard and waiting tables and waiting for a break. And that was me as well. And you want to help every single one of those people and you want to help every single one of those people whose cousin is also in LA. So like, that's the part that's really hard for me is that I can't, I can't do for everyone. And I want to, and especially theater people, like if you, if someone sends me a cold email that the subject is like a MF playwright, like I read it and then I, you know, I, I can't help it.3 (17m 42s):So that's a little hard cause I want to be good to everyone. And, and can't so that's, that's hard for me. And the other thing that's just hard is, you know, I spend my life in sweatpants and now suddenly have to do a bunch of stuff where I look, I have to look very, you know, Like, you know, writers or writers were writers for a reason. And so, so suddenly I have to like I to buy lipstick. And so that part of it is a little being articulate. Like next to Margot, Robbie is very difficult for me, but1 (18m 14s):I didn't realize until just today that she was the producer. So she's, she's the person who optioned the book.3 (18m 20s):So she and John Wells got the book together. John Wells is a very famous producer. He did west wing ER, and shameless, which is how I know him. I worked in my last four seasons of shameless is a writer on the show. So when he and Margo got the book, LA had just done cry it out, it was cried out, was up like, like had just closed when they got the book and it's a play about moms. And I think they were like, oh, we know a person who writes about moms and they handed me the book. It was so kismet.1 (18m 49s):Wow. That's fantastic. And, but you had to, I mean, I read the book too. You had to create a whole narrative. That's not in the book. So how does that, I'm curious about that process and how it works. Is it that you kind of sit down as the show runner and hatch a basic idea that you, that you then have some writers help you with or do you have to outline all of the stories and everybody else just writes them? Or how does it work?3 (19m 20s):Well, it's a, it's a little bit different with every project. Oh, I'm with a story like made, you know, whenever the memoir I learned so much, like it was, it's really an educational tool and I didn't want to sacrifice any of that. On the other hand, when you go and sit down with your husband or wife and Saturday night to watch Netflix, you don't want to lecture and you don't want to like TV, shouldn't taste like TV, shouldn't taste like broccoli, right. It should taste like it should be a sneak attack. Kind of like my plate is like, I like to sneak people into learning something. So I knew kind of off the bat that that made was an incredible engine, the memoir, and that I wanted all the takeaway to be the same. But I also knew that we were going to have to create a lot of story to do that.3 (20m 1s):So to answer your question, when I first said I would do the book and when we were taking out and pitching it to Netflix, pitching it to HBO, you know, all the places I would have to say, this is what I'm going to do. You know, we're gonna, we're going to do 10 episodes. Her mom's going to be a huge character. Her dad's got a huge character. We're going to really build up. Sean. We're going to get to know some of the people in the houses we're going to get to know Regina, she's an invented character, but this is how she'll structure in the plot. And you really have to know the nuts and bolts of what you're going to do. And the tone of it, like it's kinda like giving a 45 minute presentation on what the show will be. And then hopefully someone like Netflix is like, okay, great. Here's, here's a green light and get your writer's room. So then you hire a handful.3 (20m 42s):If you're lucky, you know, I could, I didn't have any, no one told me what to do. I got to hire whoever I wanted. And I hired only four writers, three of whom are playwrights, three of whom. I'm sure. You know, cause it's Colin, Becca bronzer, Marcus Garley so really accomplished playwrights. And then Michelle, Denise Jackson, who is not a playwright, but should be like, she's an honorary playwright, you know? And so w and then the five of us sit down and we take what I've said, you know, about the show, the 45 minute presentation, and we flush it out. What are we doing in every episode? What does this look like? And that, that process in the writer's room is the closest, you'll get to a table read in the theater, you know, where you're just at the table, you're reading that play.3 (21m 24s):And then you talk about it for, you know, nine days. That's a writer's room is that every day. So it's very, very, very cool experience and everyone's sharing secrets and, and we disagree sometimes and we do puzzles and there's a lot of talk about lunch.1 (21m 43s):That's what everybody says.3 (21m 47s):But also what was cool that mean is that these five, these four writers and me, the five of us, we all really connected to different things in the memoir. And we also, all of us come from all of us can relate to the memoir in different ways. And so you get five different perspectives on something. And I think, you know, Becca brown center did so much of the writing of Regina, and I think she could really connect to Regina. And, you know, that character would not feel quite as beautifully drawn if Becca weren't in the writers room. Like, so, so much of it is it's a dinner party. And the result of that dinner party is character. You know? So it's really, it's the most important thing you do is those writers.1 (22m 26s):That is okay. So I also just learned that today that you didn't write that Regina monologue, because, and this is about my own projection that when I'm watching it, I'm going, oh my God, this is so similar to Claire, Claire. Is that the name of the character and cry it out. That lives up high, up on the hill.3 (22m 45s):Oh, Adrian. Adrian.1 (22m 47s):Yeah. Thank you. Sorry. I was thinking, I was thinking, it sounded like an Adrian, my likes. So that's fascinating that, that,3 (22m 53s):Well, let me explain one further thing, which is, so that's how the show gets written. And yes, Becca brown said, I wrote that monologue, but the other thing that the show runner does is it is my job to then go through all 10 episodes and make sure it sounds like one person wrote them. And, and so the showroom, so you kind of divide the writing in the room and then all funnels back to me and I rewrite it or fix things. Or sometimes, you know, sometimes you're doing a major rewrite sometimes you're just like with Regina monologue, it was so beautiful. You know, we, we had to cut a couple of things for production, but like, it's, it's back as work. And, but it's, that's what TV writing is. It's like, there'll be stuff that Becca wrote in episode seven that she didn't write, or, you know, like TV is very collaborative and then it all funnels through the showrunner who does a pass to make sure it's, it's up to the standard that I want.3 (23m 44s):It's totally what I want. You know, it is, it is a writing job as a group, and then it is ultimately one person's writing job it's book. Does that make sense?1 (23m 51s):Yeah, it does. And thank you so much for answering that question because I have always wondered. And also even on television shows that have, have a different director, every episode, I'm always thinking, how are they keeping true to the tone, but not now, now I understand it. Well, I have so many things to ask you. I want to talk to you about just one thing is that you have said that you love writing about class, which is a big part of made and your, and your place. But, so I want to talk a little bit about that, but I also kind of want to talk maybe first about the thing that you said you were surprised that people like to made, and I've heard a lot of female writers express, something like that.1 (24m 36s):I'm surprised. And maybe people just say it in a way as, as you know, not, not trying to try to be humble. Right. Okay. But I believe that you are surprised by it because it does seem like a kind of recent thing that the universe is allowing us to tell women's stories and having them at the forefront. I mean, it seems really pretty recent. And so are you, do you feel like this is you're part of a big sea change in terms of what's being represented on screen?3 (25m 7s):You know, absolutely. I was talking to Netflix yesterday and they said last year it was Bridgford, you know, these are a lot of things, but they were saying last year, people, the surprise was everyone loved Britain and love Queens gambit. And this year one loves squid game and loves made, which cracks me up. But, but they think to be in the same sentence as Queens gambit as the limited series. I mean, I think that's so exciting as a female writer, because she was an alcoholic kind of like piece of crap who was amazing at chess and went on this like beautiful arc that was not traditionally feminine. It was usually that's a man, like that's usually a male going through that and were riveted by his addiction and his dysfunction and made his, you know, I think we're continuing what Queens gambit did as well.3 (25m 50s):Like it's, you know, Alex has a lot of things, but she's not a woman. She is a character going through an arc and she makes a ton of mistakes and she, you know, is a product of where she comes from. And that is enough to carry a show. And I feel like that is it you're right. It's so recent. And I therefore assumed it would be treated like a, you know, like a niche, you know, maybe 500,000 people will watch it kind of like, cause we don't show up for those shows, but all of a sudden we really show up for those shows and we want to see a multidimensional and rich and layered woman at the story of her own dance story. It's really like exciting.3 (26m 31s):It's exciting.1 (26m 33s):That's what I think about stuff like this. I just imagine, you know, the people who are traditionally in charge of these things, I just mentioned it, but I imagine a bunch of guys sitting around being like, can you imagine people really want to hear about these dang? I mean, I feel like it must be a surprise to, to sort of the old guard that, you know, because of course everything does have to be motivated about what's going to be a return on your investment. And that, that that's understandable. It's I'm not saying anybody's bad for that, but it is curious to me that there was just this, there was an assumption that if you made a female centered show, nobody would want to watch it.1 (27m 16s):Except for every time they make a female centered, anything people want to watch it. Why is this keep being a surprise?3 (27m 24s):I think it's going to stopping a surprise pretty soon because this cracked me up. But my friend was doing a pitch yesterday at Hulu. And I guess like the conversation kind of organically came up with like, well, what's our main, you know, like what's the, you know, the producer was in it, but like, you know, people are starting to look for the, the queen scam, but you know, trying to look for the female, you know, the unconventional sort of what's the would be a surprising female story. We're starting to like, not only are we starting to have it at the table, that the market is the, market's starting to recognize that we're going to get eyes on the screen and it's, you know, I shouldn't be so surprised by made.1 (28m 5s):Right. Right. And it helps that we have people like Margot, Robbie and Reese Witherspoon and females who are having more of a say about what gets produced, you know, with what, what books get optioned and then what gets produced.3 (28m 17s):Absolutely. And, and more and more women are taking those jobs and taking those positions. And it's a good, it's a sea change. I also dare say, I think TV and film has ahead of it than theater. I have to say, I think1 (28m 29s):Girl, that's another thing I was going to say. Cause you had a quote in something I read theater is behind theater is so behind and this is, unfortunately it came as a surprise to me. Like when I woke up to the fact that theater is so behind, it was sad and it also doesn't make sense. It also, you know, it should be it's, it was 40 years ago. It was the most progressive part of art, I think.3 (28m 55s):Yeah. Well the theater doesn't treat women as, as minority voices and they have, and like that's, what's so crazy is we've, you know, I think we've carved out space for there's so much equality and, and like, it's exciting to see the programming in theaters change. And like it's not just white men anymore. That's all, that's very, very exciting. But heterosexual women stories that mother's stories about our struggles stories about, you know, me and my friends, there's no space for us on the New York stage. There's no space for my friends and I on the New York stage. And I feel like, and then, you know, you don't go up in New York, then you don't go all across the regions.3 (29m 36s):And I think a great example is actually cried out because that had a huge regional presence because I think people are starved for players like that, that are about women and just, you know, and not women on Mars and not, not necessarily, you know, like it just normal women, women having, you know, the Wendy Wasserstein plays of today are not produced in New York. And it's, it's a, it's a huge issue I think.1 (30m 0s):Yeah, yeah, it is. So, okay. So the other thing is that you love to write about class, which I find fascinating. I love to read about it in any case, what is your personal connection to your fascination with that issue?3 (30m 17s):Well, I think I grew a group of the Hudson valley, the daughter of two teachers. So, you know, I, I, I can't relate to made, for instance, in the sense of, I always had food and I always had a certain amount of like structure and S and security, but I, my parents were incredibly well educated and they kind of like my dad went to Cornell and it was sort of something we heard a lot about, even though we didn't kind of grow up in a moneyed area or money to house, there was a sense of, there was a sense of you could scholarship your way into the next strata. And I think that I find that fascinating because it's just not true. I, it's almost impossible.3 (30m 59s):It's almost impossible to change your class in America. And it's, it's, I feel like those walls are getting higher, not lower. And I watch people through everything they have at, at, at those chances to change, you know, change their stripes. And I just think the way we, we work in this country is we it's, we've made that harder and harder. There is no bootstrap narrative there. It does. There's no bootstraps it doesn't, it's not a thing in this country. So I find that fascinating because I felt very jipped. You know, I felt like I worked very, very hard and like I was always getting A's and being sophisticated and like, I couldn't graduate and get a, you know, a little studio in New York and intern at a publishing house.3 (31m 42s):You know, like a lot of my friends who came from money could, and there's just, it's so ingrained in our culture and it makes me mad and it's not, you know, it's not fair. Especially when I had a child and started thinking about cried out and just the way we treat that money directly affects maternity leave in this country too. And like, I can't compete with somebody who has a trust fund, you know, I had to put queer where I could afford her. And it's just bullshit that you can claw your way out of the class that you're born into. It's it's extremely rare. So I love that1 (32m 16s):It's bullshit and it's really dangerous cause it makes people feel so inadequate when they can't, you know, and that, that's also a great scene. I think it's in the first episode. Yeah. It's in the first episode when she goes and she's talking to the social worker and she's saying, so I can't get a job because I don't have a daycare and I can't get daycare cause I don't have a job. So I have to get a dog to prove that I didn't deserve daycare. I mean, it's, it's also3 (32m 40s):Backwards. Yeah. You're at a humongous disadvantage. If you are born into, you know, if you're born into poverty, you're at a humongous disadvantage in this country and it's like getting worse. That's the other thing is it's not, I mean, I have to leave. That's part of why made is, is touching so many people's sense of justice too. It's like, oh yeah, it's getting worse. Like, why aren't we talking about this? It's you know, Alex and I are, are not facing the same problems. And it's just by where I was born and where she was born and you know, you what family, your brand and who dictates so much of your struggle.1 (33m 17s):Yeah. And, and that, that the sort of historical narratives would have you believe that it's, it's the opposite of that and that, and that everybody left England to get away from that. But then yeah, just creative things I think here. So another thing that I heard or read that you said that really took my breath away is you said that when you became a mother, your, you didn't say your resolve for your career. You, the phrase that I that's sticking out to me, as you said, I went from being the secretary of my own company to the CEO. And it just, that just really like hit me in the center of my chest.1 (33m 58s):Can you just say a little bit more about it? What, what you meant by that?3 (34m 3s):Sure. I think that we'll probably like probably like many women when they become moms. I, I was frustrated that I had, I had this thing that I was good at, that I had studied for so many years that I've given so much time and love to my playwriting career and that it did not love me back in the sense that I could not afford to take core to a music class, you know? And it made me very, it made me very frustrated that, you know, I, I had devoted my, my self to this, this field that I had a passive relationship with. Like I was waiting for someone to call and tell me they were going to do a reading or, you know, or I was waiting for my career to start.3 (34m 50s):And I think what happened when I had, when I had Cora was I, I wanted to provide for her. And I also wanted to, I wanted to show her that you could be tough and you could be an active participant in your career like that. I didn't have to wait for it to happen. And so part of it was, I was, I just kind of said the things we all want to say out loud as a women, but I actually said them, which was like, Hey agents, what the F I am funny and talented. I want to work in TV. I want to take a music class with my daughter. What do I have to do to do that? And I you'd be shocked. I think how freeing and wonderful it is to just stand up for yourself and to make demands. And, you know, and I wanted to, I wanted to take an expensive music class with my daughter and I wanted to have a career.3 (35m 32s):And I was like, I'm not going to wait for it to happen because I know if someone gives me a chance I'm going to do, I'm going to go far in this field. Like, cause I don't know. Does that make sense? So I kind of like, wait, I said, waiting for the phone to ring and started making the calls.1 (35m 45s):Yeah. And also what I'm hearing is you stopped just blindly participating in the myth that everything can only work a certain way, which I feel like is something that we can all relate. I mean, it's something that boss and I talk a lot on this podcast about like just making so many assumptions about what, what we're definitely not entitled to have and what we're, you know, let's definitely for other people and not for us without ever once actually saying that out loud or asking for what we want. And actually yesterday chiefs have said the exact same thing. She said she, she was trying to be humble and say it's because she doesn't know how the system works. So she didn't know, she couldn't ask which you know. Okay. Maybe, but it's very inspiring to hear that.1 (36m 29s):Now you could just decide what you want to do with your life and your career. You could decide that you want to have a work-life balance and then have it.3 (36m 37s):Yeah. And you know, I think actors have this too. We are always waiting for the phone to ring. And at a certain point, I think that's a really tough way to be a mom because you can't count on anything and you're spread so thin. And I'm just kinda like, no, I'm going to generate, I'm going to generate this. And I can't really define the moment, but I will say for me it was emotional. I, I stopped, I stopped letting theater. Tell me how to feel about myself a little bit theater. I mean, it's a little bit like the terrible boyfriend that you just can't leave. Right. Like I would be like, I would be like, here's my new play. Do you love it? And they'd be like, maybe, you know, maybe we'll do a reading of it.3 (37m 19s):And I'd be like, let's my full heart. And I love you. And then, you know, and I finally like kind of broke up with that boyfriend in the sense that like, no, I'm really good at this. And like, I'm going to go where the love is. And I'm going to figure out how to pay my bills doing this and maybe you'll miss me and come back. You know, you know, it's hard as an artist, you can't let someone else tell you what your worth is. And theater is very conducive to that.1 (37m 40s):Yeah. Oh my God. That's so true. And that's, by the way, like a big part of the character of Alex, she does that too. I mean, she, with not that much to leverage did still find a way to just be very active about asking for what she wants. And I can see what you're saying about how, how having a kid makes that very clear. Whereas maybe you don't feel so I'm entitled to ask for what you want when it's just you, but when you know that it's somebody else who's depending on you, then it's that it doesn't feel like you're asking for yourself. It feels like you're asking for your family.3 (38m 15s):Yeah. And you see injustice with fresh eyes when you have a child, you know, because I don't know. I feel, I feel like certainly in my case, I w I would, I was so focused on being a good collaborator, being polite, being like, you know, you know, being grateful for the breadcrumbs that I got, you know, in my life. And I mean, honestly, it was a professional change, but it was primarily an emotional change. I was like, yeah, I don't want breadcrumbs anymore because my daughter deserves better than breadcrumbs. And so it just sort of filtered across all the fields, but yeah, another had does that.1 (38m 50s):Yeah, it does. It does well. So I don't know if I ever told you this, the reason I was looking through our emails earlier, as I wanted to see if I, I was sure I had said this thing to you, that I can not find in my email. So I'm going to say it to you now, which is that when I was directing your play, I wrote to you just about some things that I wondered if we could change. And you gave me the most thoughtful responses, which was, is to say you didn't invalidate that I was asking you, but you still stood up for what you, for the integrity of the play. I feel like I'm going to cry. I never saw anybody do that before.1 (39m 36s):And it was a really great, I wish I wasn't crying as I started to say this to you, but it was a great thing to, it was a, you were a great role model for me in that moment. And I always appreciate that. So thank you.3 (39m 52s):Oh, Tina, thank you. Well, you know what, thank you for wanting to have a conversation with me about it. Cause like I also think that's the sign of a fantastic director that you let me into your process and your thoughts about it. And I know you did a fantastic job with the play cause I had Scouts in that area who saw it and you know, so whatever you were, whatever you were working with, you artistically, you certainly landed that ship for you. You know, landed that plan beautifully.1 (40m 15s):Thank you. I had, and I had so much fun doing it. So tell me about some of your mentors. We had a nice discussion the other day about the power of mentors and some people go kind of through their whole training and never really feel like they connect with a mentor. Did you have mentors along the way?3 (40m 35s):Yes. I'm very lucky. Actually. I'm very lucky. I'm sure most people who go to Julliard and say this, but I, in my case, it's, it's really, really true that Marsha Norman was a wonderful mentor to me. I met her at Tisch and Tisha's a funny place because it's a larger program. You know, you don't have that. One-on-one with your professors that you do with Juilliard where there's just a handful of you, but, and I didn't stand out at Tisch. I sort of, my husband was, you know, my husband's sort of the star over player at, in class and I hadn't found my voice and I was sort of, I just wasn't like the star student and she was, she saw something in me and I don't think she saw like a Polish playwright yet, but she saw, I think there's just, she saw a way to help me find my voice.3 (41m 18s):And she hired me as her assistant coming out of that MFA program. And I always think like it was sort of charity work because she didn't need an assistant. She was so on top of her life. But I think she wanted to let me hang out with her and see how she conducted her business. So she was working on law and criminal intent. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was on set with her. I get to do research with her, for the scripts. She was doing the color purple and I got to go to rehearsal usually just to bring a coffee that I could watch. And it was, you know, she's also a mother and I don't know it was really, it, it was so generous of her because I got, I just got to see that you, what a woman in power looks like and, and a woman on her voice.3 (41m 59s):And she also says no a lot. And I grew to really respect that. Especially later when I became a mom, but you don't F with Marsha. I mean, she'll shut stuff down. She's really, I mean, she's such a generous person here. She did this thing for me, I'm a total stranger, but she's also like she knows her worth. So I was very grateful. It's been those years with her. And then, and then she invited me to Julliard. And then when I was ready really gave me, I mean, Juilliard is so much pressure. And the thing about Julia is you have to know what your voice is to go there. And so it's almost like she was helping me find my voice. And then when I found it gave me this incredible opportunity to go to Julliard. So sh honestly like very, very good to me in such a mentor in a very lucky.3 (42m 41s):And then on the west coast, I've had a wonderful mentor in John Wells because he, he's just one of the most terrific showrunners and producers, but it's funny cause I, everybody knows that that's not a secret in LA, but to work for him as a writer and to be in his writer's room. I learned so much from him about how to empower the people around you. How did it become like, you know, there's so many toxic writing rooms and toxic jobs with my friends, tell me, and it sounds terrible, but everyone at a John Wells show is thrilled to be there and very lucky to have that job. And they know it and like just that there's a way to do things gracefully. So he, and, and then he got this book and handed it to me and gave me my first chance to be a show runner.3 (43m 23s):So I had a, I've been very lucky to have him as a mentor on this coast1 (43m 28s):And the toxic. I've heard a lot of stories too, about toxic writers' rooms. And maybe that's also something that's going to get phased out because like so many of these things, you just, you just need more samples. You need, you know, you need more samples in your dataset so that, you know, I mean, if 99% of everything is run in one certain way, then there's little, there's little chance that it's going to change. But when, when the tide starts to shift, maybe there's a little, few more samples in your dataset that show, well, you can just be a regular nice person and still get the same, you know, get the same job done. That's that's nice to hear.3 (44m 9s):Yeah. Yeah.1 (44m 12s):So dah, dah, dah, oh, one, another favorite line from made is when Alex is talking to her dad about, I think this is, might be at the last episode or near then. And she says, she's trying to tell him that her or her, whatever boyfriend abused her and her, father's not taking it in. And she says, do you hear the words that are coming out of my mouth right now? That was another thing that really hit me because, you know, denial is really not a passive thing. Like you have to work pretty hard at defending your denial on something.1 (44m 56s):And I'm really familiar with saying something that feels, you know, that's a truth for me to people who, I mean, act as if you're, you know, like you're invisible and that turns out to be a really shaping force in a lot of people's lives. And you know, so anyway, I'm just curious about your own relationship and experience with denial.3 (45m 22s):Well, I love that you love that moment because I remember with that scene feeling like something was missing. And I remember, you know, I know a lot of it denial, but what I really know a lot about is gaslighting and denial is a form of gaslighting where you're just like, I'm, I'm not going to acknowledge a reality. And you know, I learned this tool a few years ago from a fantastic therapist that like, it's okay to just pause and be like, but you actually are hearing me, right? Like this is English. And you understand these words like, and I've, I've actually tried that tool in my life and steal at someone, not, not like, not be able to confirm that they're hearing the words.3 (46m 3s):And so it was when I, and then when I put it in the scene that it felt like, oh, that's what was missing is just this, like, how far are you going to take this denial? And he still can't write. I mean, I think Billy might nod, but he doesn't say anything. Like, I think gaslighting in denial and emotional abuse, I mean, I could write 40 Marsha was about this. I am fascinated by it. And the thing we don't talk about it as a form of abuse. And we should, it's like weirdly I think as well as violent, if not more violent than physical abuse, because you don't realize it's happening like Alex in the pilot, she doesn't know she's a victim of abuse and she is such an, a victim of abuse, which I hope we demonstrate in the show that you have to go on that ride with her, but you know, it's so corrosive and there's nothing worse than having someone tell you what what's real is not real day after day, year after year.3 (46m 56s):Like this is an area that I know a lot about I sent you do to1 (47m 1s):Yes. And actually my kind of where I put my energy in terms of recovery is with codependency and denial and codependency, or just, I mean, that's, that's the it's denial is the perfume of codependency. It's just, it's everywhere. And what I think really gets triggered for people who want to keep pretending, like they hear the words you're saying is because I find this in my family, like the way that denial really shows up in my family is if I acknowledge a truth, that's too true. I think what happens to other people is they feel that if they even just validate that that's my truth, that that somehow means that they have to acknowledge it for their own selves and their own lives.1 (47m 51s):And that's really like the forbidden thing that, you know, that people who don't want to go there can't do, they can't, it's like the Pandora's box. If I start to look at, you know, if I acknowledge that, what you're saying about this is true, then I can't help, but start to acknowledge all of the other things as well.3 (48m 9s):I think what you just said is, is brilliant because I think people think denial is just inactive, but it's aggressive. It's so aggressive. It's really violent, you know, intense denial that gaslighting of like, I will not even acknowledge. I hear the words you're saying it's, it's, it's so active. It's I mean, it's so aggressive. What you said was really, really smart really. Right. Yeah. And I love the people. I love the people are flipping out about Hank with me. Like how does he just sit there and let Sean treat her like that? And like, you know, and that's what I mean, I think she's mistreated throughout the show, but I think what Hank does to her in that moment with the denial is, is I think a lot of us recognize that.1 (48m 49s):Yeah. And I really appreciate the w the way you rolled out this whole concept of emotional abuse, because even I who feel like I've spent so much time working on this stuff, and I was a therapist, even I was found myself being like, oh, he didn't hit her. You know, she left, he didn't hit her. Hmm. I really had to check that in myself. And I was because one of the things that denial, I mean, in the absence of act, you know, saying you're wrong or whatever, and it's just, I don't hear you. You just assume that what you're saying, isn't valid, it's it becomes this thing that you do to yourself where you, you know, if somebody invalidates you enough, you start to invalidate yourself.1 (49m 38s):So I loved how you rolled that out in the series that are people talking to you a lot about that.3 (49m 45s):Yes they are. And how about in episode eight, where you are like, oh, Sean's changed and he's turned around and he's going to be a carpenter, you know? And like you it's in you, you find yourself. Or at least I did. And I assume it seems like audiences to just kind of like, oh, maybe this is a happy, love story. Like maybe he like, you know, and, and that, you know, that is all by calculated manipulative writing that I like my secret agenda with me. It was, you know, and I claimed 10 hours cause I wanted, I wanted the audience to go on the actual experience of that cycle and to get thrown off by it and caught up in it like, oh my gosh, I'm back, I'm back. And I'm in the pit, how did this happen?3 (50m 26s):And I wanted to show you how it happened. I also was like, I dare you to wash made and tell me that that's not domestic violence because it is emotional abuse is violent. It, what happens to her is violent. So that was like my secret mustache totally goal with the show.1 (50m 43s):Yeah, no, it, it hit, it totally played. And, and I think the other thing that's great about that is that when we have seen depictions of violence against women in film, I mean the best we could entail television, the best we could have hoped for is some woman who's abused who isn't a total idiot, because mostly what it is, how it's portrayed is some dumb person who doesn't, who's too dumb to know she's being abused. So therefore she goes back and also the various, the subtle, wow. I don't know if it's settled, but the, the subplot with the first roommate that she has when she goes to the, not roommate, but you know, the woman who lives in the shelter with her who introduces her to, you know, how, how to do life there.1 (51m 31s):I love I, that was heartbreaking her story of, because it is that you, you, you, yes, in the audience were saying, yeah, maybe sh maybe Sean is a good guy. Maybe, maybe all he really needed was to sober up and become the good person he was meant to team.3 (51m 50s):Yep. I mean, it's funny. I did an interview yesterday where this gentleman was like, is Sean okay? Like, does he end up okay. In life? And, and I, and I found myself sort of being like, I've never really thought of that cause he, you know, he's fictional, but I, I don't know. I'm not sure that that guy is ever going to make it out of that trailer, you know? And I'm not sure that he's going to get sober and be a great dad. I'm not. But I do feel like when he says at the end, I'm going to get sober and come see her all the time. I don't believe him. And, and I think that's his TV show, right? That's his cycle that he has to break. But my goal was to show that he's caught in his own cycle too.3 (52m 29s):Like, we are all kind of caught in our own cycles and it's so hard to break, you know, an Alex barely makes it out. And most women and men in her situation, the show ends in episode eight under the, in the pit. Most people don't get out of the pit and she is so smart and driven that she can, but she's the exception and not, she's a great exception. Yeah.1 (52m 53s):Yeah. Yeah. So we're, I want to be honoring your time. I told you we're only going to talk for an hour, but, but before we begin to wrap up, I just want to ask you, so since we've spent a lot of time talking about your success, let's hear about some of your failures. What have been some mistakes that you've made, maybe, maybe you maybe even like when you, when you made first, the transition from playwriting to writing and Hollywood, what were some of the mistakes that you made along the way?3 (53m 23s):Well, I, I think the, one of the great learning opportunities I've had as a human being, not just as a writer, was my first big production as a playwright in New York. And it was, you know, I was barely out of school and I felt I'm just so grateful for the opportunity. You know, it was a big production with stars in it and fancy director and everyone there was fancy except me and the process I have to say kind of went that way, like, like, huh, there's this element of it's actually, it's when I play close up space is about a dad and a daughter. It's about grief and pain and there's a lot of magical realism and I'm sure it's far from the perfect play, but it got obliterated by the press and squarely blamed on me the most inexperienced person in the production.3 (54m 11s):But what I learned from it is that I knew things about it were wrong. I knew immediately things about the production were wrong and I didn't use my voice. I didn't, you know, what happened with the play is my fault. I didn't, I didn't ring the bell. I didn't say, well, I didn't refuse the rewrites. Like I, you know, and everybody there had good intentions. Everybody wants to have a hit play, but people saw it a different way than I did. And, and it was wonderful people. There was no reason why I couldn't have said, Hey, yo, this isn't what I wrote. And I really, it was a crushing blow to have that play go so badly and to, to get such her, I mean, if you went for that and just Google it, it's the worst reviews. It's like, one of the, one of the reviews was like, is she sleeping with the director?3 (54m 53s):Like, why did she even get this product? You know, it's just straight on misogyny. I mean, it was, it was so mean, but what it taught me was I, since that moment I've really listened to my gut. And if my gut says this isn't right, I say it, and I don't worry about how it's going to come across. It sounds like I did that with you, but I have my sense of like, no, and, and it, and I learned the hard way in that moment that nothing is more important than your own gut. And so, and, you know, kind of re I had like a, kind of, a lot of momentum as a playwright really stop that momentum. It sent me into a deep depression. I mean, the, I lost so much because I didn't listen to my voice.3 (55m 36s):So that was my big theater lesson, which is applied to everything. But the big mistake I've made in TV to film, I've actually been really, really, really lucky and worked with fantastic people. But I think that stuff can go sideways here. It's a, it's a funny town, you know, and I've worked with wonderful people, but once in a while, you know, something's happening and then it just disappears. And so, you know, like that, you're gonna, you know, I, right before me and I came so close to having another job that I really wanted and was passionate about, it would have been my first time kosher running something, show running something, and, you know, we were all but celebrating.3 (56m 21s):And then the whole thing fell apart because the actress wanted her friend to write it and like bull, bull, crap. Like that happens all the time in LA. And so it's a hard time. It's a hard lesson the first time, you know, where I was like, oh, people don't, you know, like my agent sent me champagne. Like it was, it was happening. And then it very suddenly wasn't. And so I think it made me realize that don't pop the champagne until the contract is signed1 (56m 51s):And put that on a t-shirt.3 (56m 57s):That was a tough lesson to learn though, because I was like, wait, oh my God. Like, I went from like sky high to, and you know, nobody really, nobody apart, it was just very sobering. So,1 (57m 7s):And writing is so personal that it's really hard not to take both the criticisms to heart and then the, the opposite of the criticisms. And, you know, it's, it's hard not to make it. It's hard to stop making it about personal validation. You know, when, when somebody likes or doesn't like your stuff. Yeah. That's the journey I'm on right now. Not making it about, you know, like if somebody didn't like my play doesn't mean they don't, it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not they like me.3 (57m 40s):Yeah. You know, that's, I'm glad you're learning that because I also can tell you, I just staffed a writing room for the first time. And so that experience was really opening because I read unbelievably fantastic things and I didn't meet with them because, you know, you're designing a dinner party with five people and you kind of have to, and like you, the truth is, like I said, I passed on a lot of wonderful writers whose work I freaking loved. And like, can't wait to read for the next thing and have mentioned and recommended to other people. And that's part of it is like, you don't know how people are experiencing your work and the fans that you're building along the way. And I think we quickly assume the worst. Right? I know I do. But like, but the fact is like, you don't, you don't know how close you got it.3 (58m 24s):My guess is you're getting close to stuff and you don't know. And aren't able to know that1 (58m 29s):At the end of the day, the only thing you have control over is whether or not you go back to your computer later that day and just keep writing.3 (58m 36s):Yeah. You got to run, run your own race, which is so hard to do. I mean, listen, it really, really is. But yeah. The only thing you, the only thing you can control is your output true. Which is horrible. I mean, I, I, for the first time, in two years that don't have anyone calling me today to be like, where are the pages? You know? Like, I mean, part of it too is it's, it's helpful when you have deadlines and pressure. That's why I love to grad school because I'm the second Monday of October, I was reading my play out loud. And so I had to go right. You know, make sure I write it. So I also feel like that's, without that, it's also, that's a hard thing about feeling like you're not moving forward too, is that lack of deadlines.3 (59m 19s):But again, you don't, you don't, you don't know how far your work is going and how who's reading it and what it will lead to the next time. And I mean, I've gotten, I've gotten rejected on so many things that have led to a meeting later, you know, like so many things that, so many jobs I wanted that I didn't get, but then later someone's like, oh, we read her for that. We should meet her for this. And I didn't get that job either, but, but it's like, it's just funny. So yeah,1 (59m 48s):Like leaving a whole blanket of your career and you never know, you know, w where this, where the threads are going to end up.3 (59m 55s):Absolutely. And every time I get bummed out, which is a lot, because I'm a writer, all writers gets on debt. I, I try to think about and visualize the stack of things. I'm going to write in my life. And when I get terrible notes or when I get clobbered with notes and I feel depressed, I also think about the stack of work that I'm going to do in my life and how this piece that I'm writing right now is just one of them, you know? And that, that's my, that's my real tombstone like that pile, you know?1 (1h 0m 22s):Oh, I love that. What a great image and what a great note to end on.4 (1h 0m 37s):If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable Inc production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez, and Gina plegia are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited, and sound mixed by Gina for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.

In the November 2021 episode of Discussions with DPIC, Daniel Chen, counsel at the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, speaks with DPIC Executive Director Robert Dunham about the Supreme Court case Ramirez v. Collier and death-row prisoners' rights to religious freedom. John Ramirez has challenged Texas' restrictions on audible prayer and physical touch by his spiritual advisor during his execution. Allowing such pastoral comfort in the execution chamber, Chen says, is about “fundamental human dignity.” Chen describes the Becket Fund's involvement in Ramirez and other cases involving the free exercise of religion in the execution chamber, and traces the history of audible prayer and clergy touch during executions. Texas' policy is out of step with historical practices, including its own pre-2019 regulations, Chen explains. Chen and Dunham conclude their discussion exploring the Becket Fund's belief that the fundamental human right to religious liberty must be protected, even “for people who might be different from us, who might have different life circumstances,” including those on death row.

This week we're traveling back to 1940s LA with Zoot Suit! Join us to learn more about the zoot suit style, the history of the word "Chicano", the CIO's work on the Sleepy Lagoon murder trial, and the real fate of main character Henry Leyvas. * *Note: Sofia would like to let readers know that she had a long day prior to recording this and was bitten by the "um" bug, so thank you for your understanding. Sources: Film Background: Siskel and Ebert Review, Zoot Suit: https://siskelebert.org/?p=7033 Center Theater Group, "How 'Zoot Suit' Changed Theater Forever." https://www.centertheatregroup.org/news-and-blogs/news/2017/january/how-zoot-suit-changed-theatre-forever/ Robert Ito, "Zoot Suit, a Pioneering Play, Comes Full Circle," New York Times, available at https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/theater/zoot-suit-a-pioneering-chicano-play-comes-full-circle.html Zoot Suit, IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083365/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 Chicano: Google Books Ngram, Chicano: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=chicano&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cchicano%3B%2Cc0#t1%3B%2Cchicano%3B%2Cc0 Jose Limon, "The Folk Performance of Chicano and the Cultural Limits of Political Ideology," Unpublished working paper, UCLA. Code Switch, "You Say Chicano, I Say. . ." Available at https://www.npr.org/transcripts/718703438 Henry Leyvas: "Enrique "Henry" Reyes Leyvas (1923-1971)," American Experience, PBS. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/zoot-enrique-henry-reyes-leyvas/. "Sleepy Lagoon Trial: The Sleepy Lagoon Murder Trial of 12," Zoot Suit Discovery Guide. https://research.pomona.edu/zootsuit/en/trial/ . Sleepy Lagoon Trial Photos: https://digital.library.ucla.edu/catalog?f%5Bsubject_sim%5D%5B%5D=Sleepy+Lagoon+Trial%2C+Los+Angeles%2C+1942-1943&sort=title_alpha_numeric_ssort+asc Zoot Suits: Kathy Peiss, Zoot Suit: The Enigmatic Career of an Extreme Style, (University of Pennsylvania Press, 2011). https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt3fhn0m Stuart Cosgrove, "The Zoot-Suit and Style Warfare," History Workshop 18 (1984): 77-91. https://www.jstor.org/stable/4288588. Steve Chibnall, "Whistle and Zoot: The Changing Meaning of a Suit of Clothes," History Workshop 20 (1985): 56-81. https://www.jstor.org/stable/4288649. Ralph H. Turner and Samuel J. Surace, "Zoot-Suiters and Mexicans: Symbols in Crowd Behavior," American Journal of Sociology 62, no.1 (1956): 14-20. https://www.jstor.org/stable/2773799. Catherine S. Ramirez, "Crimes of Fashion: The Pachuca and Chicana Style Politics," Meridians 2, no.2 (2002): 1-35. https://www.jstor.org/stable/40338497. Catherine S. Ramirez, "Saying "Nothin": Pachucas and the Languages of Resistance," Frontiers: A Journal of Women Studies 27, no.3 (2006): 1-33. https://www.jstor.org/stable/4137381. Alice McGrath: PBS, American Experience, "Zoot Suit Riots": https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/zoot/#transcript Joan Trossman Bien, "Outlaw Activist: Alice McGrath Turns 90," Ventura County Reporter, available at https://web.archive.org/web/20080606170822/http://www.vcreporter.com/cms/story/detail/?id=4917&IssueNum=133 Carlos Larralde, "Josefina Fierro and the Sleepy Lagoon Crusade, 1942-1945," Southern California Quarterly 92, 2 (2010) V. Ruiz, "Una Mujer Sin Fronteras," Pacific Historical Review 73, 1 (2004) Kenneth C Burt, "The Power of a Mobilized Citizenry and Coalition Politics: The 1949 Election of Edward R. Roybal to the Los Angeles City Council," Southern California Quarterly 85, 4 (2003)  

We discuss the Fauci and Rand Paul beat down, the massive surge continuing on our southern border, and the insane spending bill. Our guests are: Raheem Kassam, Ben Bergquam, Cambel  McLaughlin, Oscar 'Blue' Ramirez, Joe Kent Stay ahead of the censors - Join us warroom.org/join Aired On: 11/04/2021 Watch: On the Web: http://www.warroom.org On Podcast: http://warroom.ctcin.bio On TV: PlutoTV Channel 240, Dish Channel 219, Roku, Apple TV, FireTV or on https://AmericasVoice.news. #news #politics #realnews

Esta semana tenemos con nosotros a Daniela Ramirez, ella es cantautora & Actriz. Hablamos de sus inicios en la música cuales fueron esos artistas que escucho de niña, de sus inicios, proyectos futuros entre otras cosas mas. REDES Desde La Linea Podcast https://linktr.ee/DesdeLaLineaPod Daniela Ramirez - @danielaramirezoficial_ ''IG'' Melo - @m3lolmr ''IG''

Join us for the second episode of the Federalist Society's Supreme Court Show: A Seat at the Sitting. Each month, a panel of constitutional experts will convene to discuss the Court's upcoming docket and debrief oral arguments from the previous month. During the first two weeks of November, the Justices will hear ten oral arguments on cases including the Second Amendment, free speech, abortion, and religious freedom. The case names, issues, and dates of argument are listed below:Whole Women's Health v. Jackson – Abortion – November 1United States v. Texas - Abortion, Federal Jurisdiction - November 1 Houston Community College Sys. v. Wilson – First Amendment – November 2Badgerow v. Walters – Arbitration – November 2New York State Rifle & Pistol Assn. v. Bruen – Second Amendment – November 3FBI v. Fazaga – National Security – November 8 Unicolors, Inc. v. H&M – Intellectual Property – November 8United States v. Vaello Madero – Equal Protection challenge to Social Security – November 9 Ramirez v. Collier – Religious Freedom – November 9Austin v. Reagan National Advertising - First Amendment – November 10Featuring:-- Hon. Beth A. Williams, Former Assistant Attorney General, Office of Legal Policy, U.S. Department of Justice-- David H. Thompson, Managing Partner, Cooper & Kirk PLLC-- Andrew J. Pincus, Partner, Mayer Brown-- Jennifer Lichter, Deputy General Counsel, Catholic University of America

Intro: Boz is in the clear!Let Me Run This By You: secrets, scorched earthInterview: We talk to Chisa Hutchinson about her new film The Subject, Vassar, being a high school English teacher, NYU Tisch,  The Lark Play Development Center, New Dramatists, having a sleepover with Tina Howe, She Like Girls, Amerikin at the Alley Theatre, NYT reviews, 101 Reasons Not to Breed, Bad Art Friend, Haagen-Dazs, The Evansville Regional Airport, Three Women on Showtime, Lisa Taddeo, Playwrights as Screenwriters, Marsha Norman, Lynn Nottage, Tony Gerber, Richard Wesley, Stephanie Allain, Di Glazer, having an intentional career.COMPLETE TRANSCRIPT:Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (8s):And Jen BosworthGina Pulice (10s):and I'm Gina .Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.Gina Pulice (15s):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (21s):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?Gina Pulice (33s):You don't have cancer.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (35s):No, I do not have cancer right now. Do not have cancer at this moment. Who knows the next week. Yeah, no, it was, it's been quite a thing. Like I, I, you know, right. My cousin Dalia, who is what become one of my best friends in our adult lives, which is amazing. I never had any family that like, I truly liked as people know, that sounds so terrible, but I know exactly like good friends. And she says, you know, the brain is a problem making machine and it is that's, you know, it's also solves them, but it also creates them.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (1m 17s):And look, I'm not saying that that the ch that it wasn't possible that I had cancer, but like all the evidence pointed oh, right. The emotional evidence pointed to I had cancer. Like I made an emotional face based on my past and my parent, my mom's past and my dad's path. And I made a really strong case that I had cancer in my head and look, it's possible. So that's the other thing that is so, so compelling about the human condition. Is that like, and what Dr. Oltman used to say to me, it was like, look, you're not, you're not delusional. You're not psychotic. You're not, so you're not making up things that are like, aliens are going to come down and take you, your fears are based in, in things that have happened to you and other people and people you love.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (2m 6s):So it's not as though this idea, this idea of like, you know, right. It can't happen. You know, like it, I know in my body of, you know, my body of work that I've done in my life, that people die all the time of cancer and get cancer all the time, as we all do, I have a more intimate knowledge is because I lost my mom from it and saw the actual process. But I'm here to say, like, if you're freaking out about things, most of the time they're things that have happened to you or other people. So they're valid freak freakouts. It's just that they don't actually happen to be true all the time.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (2m 47s):So like weird.Gina Pulice (2m 49s):It's almost like you want to say, Thank you brain for protecting me because you know, you you've correctly picked up on the fact that when things are Sort of looking like this, it's, it means something bad, but you can relax now. Right. Because it's not that right.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (3m 7s):And it's actually not while I appreciate you brain, you're not always dealing with, with, with what's the reality, the truth. You don't, you don't. Yeah. You don't get an unfortunately brain. You don't get to, you're not a psychic, like you're just not, you have evidence. And then, so, so I had, you know, for, for our listeners, you know, like I had, I've had pain and history of weirdness on my left ovary. And it's really interesting. The cyst that is most, this is so crazy. This is how, this is what the brain does. So I'm like, okay, left side. I'm sure I have cancer on my leftover.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (3m 48s):Like, that's, what's going on. It turns out the right one, the cyst is bigger. I have one on my right. They didn't see me yesterday or two days. And the, and the, the right one is bigger and actually contains more blood and fluid. I feel nothing on my right side. So that is also to goes to show that even if you do have cancer, it could be in a place that I don't. But like, you don't know where it's coming from. So like, even your feelings are wrong, your pain body is wrong. So like, you really don't know. So it was so funny. She was like, yeah, your left side, even though it's more active, there are a lot of simple cysts. So, you know, for this is like a women's health thing. Like people don't do any Reese. I shouldn't say that there's not a ton of research done because it's a woman's issue.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (4m 32s):So it's not like, unless it's breast cancer, like nobody gives a shit about like women's cancers usually. So, cause that that's what, you know, got all the funding. So, so, so cysts grow all the time, all the time and women, they come and they go, those are simple cysts. If you have endometrial cysts or complexes, that is not, they don't come and go. They just stay. So I have several on my left side that come and go one that stays. And one that stays on the right. They don't know what's actually causing the amount of pain, but they think it's probably the left one leaking. The other thing is like, I would have sworn I had a cyst, the size of a grapefruit. If you would've asked me, I would say, it's probably grapefruit size.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (5m 15s):It's that? It's an inch on one of them. That's nothing. Well, I mean, it's not nothing cause the ovaries two inches, but like w it, you just can't always trust what your, what your feelings are. Like, it's valid, you're in pain. But like, you don't know what it looks like until, you know what it looks like. And I think that that's the whole thing I'm coming around to, which is just go to the freaking doctor, please, if you have the resource, even if you don't like find them create, I don't know, like ask somebody, but like, you know, and I've gone to plenty of free clinics and they're not glamorous and they're not exciting, but they, they, they still have an ultrasound machine, you know?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (5m 56s):So like, get, get it, get shit checked out. If you can easier said than done. But if it's an emotional fear based response, that's stopping you and not a resource-based response, you got to work through it and go, even if it is resource-based, there are, you know, there are ways around that. But like, especially if it's, you have all the resources, but there is something internally in you that is going, I don't want to know, believe me, I get it. But you want to know, you really want to know it's the only way through anything is getting the data. It's so annoying, but it's true.Gina Pulice (6m 35s):I agree. 100% with what you're saying, and this is why people love to join cults because the fantasy, the thing that's being promised in a cult is there is a finite number of answers. I, the cult leader have, there is a clear path to the number of steps that you have to take to get, you know, it's, it's everything we wish life would be predictable or seemingly predictable controlled, highly structured, you know, without a concern like to be in a cult is to not be in a process of discovering what happens next.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (7m 24s):Exactly, Exactly. And it's so compelling. It is so comforting to think, oh my gosh, this person and this entity knows everything. I never have to worry again. That's really what we're saying is I never have to worry about anything. Again, the problem is it's just make believe. And you actually do have to worry because the person is usually a sociopath or psychopath and it doesn't actually do the trick. They think, you think it's going to do the trick. And it usually does the trick for a while for people like our guests, Noel was talking about like, it serves a purpose until you start questioning and then you're in real trouble because then it's like, how the fuck do I get out?Gina Pulice (8m 10s):Yeah, exactly. Well, I am very happy that you, I mean, I'm sorry that you're been in pain, but I'm happy. It's not for some worse reasons.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (8m 19s):The other thing I have to say that is so interesting that I just wanted to, to, to me anyway, that I wanted to bring up was like, okay, I may not have in the Hollywood right now in the Hollywood industry, a team of people that are like on my side, but I'm S I swear to God, my medical team has, is filling that hole. So I just got an email from my cardiologists. Who said, your, your gynecologist thought you were amazing, loves you. How did it go? Like, that's the kind of messages I get from my, of medical experts. And so I read and I like started crying and I realized like, oh, I'm not getting it from my career team.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (9m 3s):Like, I've talked about getting nasty emails from potential managers and stuff like that, but I am getting it from the medical team. They're like, amazing. They're like, you are the best. We love you. And I like,Gina Pulice (9m 17s):What if they gave awards for being a great patient?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (9m 19s):I would Get something for Shot.Gina Pulice (9m 21s):You would get like a gynie award. I'mJen Bosworth-Ramirez (9m 23s):Like the best guy, knee, patient,Gina Pulice (9m 26s):And the, and the, and the statue is just like, you know, the uterus.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (9m 31s):Yeah. I mean, anyway, so that was really interesting to me. Cause I was really touched this morning when she wrote me. I'm like, who, what doctor, what? It's, she's a, she thought you were amazing. I was like, Hey, that's cool. Well, at least somewhat, you know what I mean? Like, I'll take this. It's so funny.Gina Pulice (9m 46s):Well, the truth is you are amazing. And the difference is with between people who know you and people who don't know you, I mean, that's just what it is. Like when people get to know you, not 10 out of 10 people who know Foz agree. She's amazing. It's just, you know, you have to convince people to get in the door. That'sJen Bosworth-Ramirez (10m 6s):It?Gina Pulice (10m 7s):Yeah. All right.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (10m 9s):I'm with you, my friend. How do you feel about all the post?Gina Pulice (10m 14s):It's just, it goes on. It's done. It's just a saga. Yes, we should.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (10m 22s):We don't have to be explicit, but like you, you,Gina Pulice (10m 24s):I can be explicit because fuck those people,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (10m 27s):Will you left an organizationGina Pulice (10m 28s):It's called Theatre Artists workshop. And I left them because aside from a handful of members and everybody that was on the board, it was one of the more toxic environments I've ever been a part of. And I quit. And I'm the only one who quit effective immediately. Everybody else is staying. Two people are staying on and then everybody else is staying through through 2021. But when I tell you the way that people are responding, we couldn't have crafted it better ourselves. If we said, let's, let's create, like, if we were making this movie and this whole conflict happened, we'd say now what's a way that people could respond.Gina Pulice (11m 17s):That would exactly prove the point of what they were saying toxic in the first place. And two, that the fact that most people are doing that and have zero awareness. So essentially what's happening is that people are reacting to our letter. That goes step-by-step and explains the ways in which we've been abused, right? People are responding to this with a combination of don't take things. So personallyJen Bosworth-Ramirez (11m 46s):Sure. Of course, that's the number one abuser thing to do,Gina Pulice (11m 49s):And just completely invalidating ignoring what we've said about the abuse. They, everybody finds something that's in the letter to take issue with and makes their whole thing about that or, and says nothing of, and by the way, I'm sorry, you were abused. Or, and by the way, you know, and people are saying, thanks, but I'm into this thing recently. I hollow gratitude. Miss me with your hollow gratitude. I don't care. I do not care. I could wallpaper my bathroom with your thank you is right. It's not what I need. I need you to change your behavior.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (12m 28s):Absolutely.Gina Pulice (12m 29s):Forgive me if I said this to you already, but I'm likening it to, you know, when COVID happened and everybody puts a sign in their front yard saying, thank you, frontline workers. Yeah. And they're banging pots and pans at 5:00 PM in New York city. Like, and the frontline workers are going, I don't think I don't need your sign, like get vaccinated and wear your mask. Right. And everybody's like, I know, I know the,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (12m 54s):Without a mask on and like at their concert. Right.Gina Pulice (12m 58s):That's exactly it. That's exactly right. And, and, and I shouldn't be surprised. We all myself included are kind of in a way, programmed to not see our own bad behavior and to not want to take responsibility, but it just goes on anyway. So, but it goes on in a way that I can choose how much I want to engage with.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (13m 18s):And also it's like it to me from the outside. It's so clear that you made the right choice. If this is the response, like they just proved, like you said, they proved the exact point there that's insane. And, and too, and you made the right choice. Like why would you stick around and be beaten down after you've made a stand? And then they continue to try to beat down that doesn't, that's insane if you stayed like that's insane.Gina Pulice (13m 44s):Yeah. Yeah. To give one just chef's kiss example. In our letter, we, we, one of the things that we said was when we tried to introduce our DEI policy, the very first thing we decided to introduce was content warnings. And we did it in the most careful way, like to, to hear about a content warning about something you're going to see presented at the workshop. You have to click down the email. Like you can choose not to see the content warning, right. Because everybody was complaining, it's art and we need to slap people in the face with it, whatever you can choose, whether or not.Gina Pulice (14m 25s):So it's literally like if I, if I'm allergic to peanuts, I'm going to read every nutrition label. Cause I want you to make sure that if I'm not allergic to peanuts, which I'm not, then I don't really need that information. It's no different than that. Right. That alone caused our first member to quit saying if he couldn't use, if he could, he could, if he could. I mean, it wasn't even related really to the content or if he couldn't use the N word, he couldn't theater and in that same evening.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (14m 57s):Bye, bye. See you later. You're not going to make theater. We're all not here. You're not gonna do it here. Thank you.Gina Pulice (15m 4s):Oh yeah. Two of our members who are from marginalized, societal groups got stood up or, you know, spoke that night and said the ways in which they've been marginalized at TAW. And that, I mean, it was crickets, not one single person gave any support. And we had listed that in our, in our letter. So this email we received from one of our members last night opened with I'm a board member of a condo complex. And we recently oversaw a renovation that made our building double in value.Gina Pulice (15m 44s):We, as a board, had to sit and listen to a tenant or what resident, whatever. Talk about the color of the paint in the laundry room for 30 minutes. And he bolds and underlines 30 all caps, 30 minutes. Okay. It goes, it goes along with being on the board and I thought, okay, so you're comparing you pace. Exactly. You're comparing.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (16m 15s):Bye bye, byeGina Pulice (16m 34s):Name and saying it all is because the thing I wanted to run by you this week is about secrets. I am. I'm all the way done with secrets. I'm sorry. I mean, I'm not saying like, if you tell me something in confidence, I'm not saying I'm not going to keep that a secret seat. That's not the kind of secret I'm talking about. I'm talking about the kind of secrets where, you know, you know, so I, I have written personal essays that reference my family as personal essays do. And you know, and I'm sure a lot of it has rubbed people the wrong way. I in particular wrote an essay in which I compared somebody in my family to Scott Peterson and, and that person let me know in the creepiest possible way, which is to say this person that, yes, we just happened.Gina Pulice (17m 32s):We are not friends on Facebook. He's not even to my knowledge, this guy has zero social media presence. I receive, I open my phone. There's a notification. So-and-so liked your post. My heart skipped a beat. I mean, it was like my blood turned cold. I went, you had to scroll pretty far down on my timeline to find that post. And it's the only one he liked. Are you kidding me? Your face is exactly your face of surprise. That exactly. Thank you.Gina Pulice (18m 13s):Oh, I really appreciate you validating that. Okay.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (18m 15s):That's so it's because two things you're super intelligent and also we like crime weirdness, but also it's fucking creepy.Gina Pulice (18m 26s):It's fucking creepy. That's weird by the way, about any post, if anybody who I'm not friends with on Facebook likes a post that's way down the feed.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (18m 38s):Well, if that's something you're not friends with on,Gina Pulice (18m 42s):Yeah. The whole thing is creepy. The whole thing is 1000% creepy. So part of the thing that I struggle with in writing personal things is airing the dirty laundry, you know, telling the secrets. And I really do try to tell only the secrets that are mine. I really try not to tell anybody else's secrets, but in general, it's so exhausting to be in this perpetual state of protecting a bunch of people who would never protect.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (19m 16s):There's the key. I mean, like, I think that's the kicker, right? It's like, and I think it speaks to a bigger issue. Like we're all protecting this in these institutional institutions and, and companies and things that are destroying us and we've been projecting them for years. And I think it speaks to why we started the podcast unknowingly is that to protect, we wanted to stop in our way and stop protecting institutions that harmed us whether some are assholes right out some aren't some are, but like institutions harm people. Like I just think that that's the way, right? That's just how it is. It's capitalism, it's democracy, whatever it is, they harm people.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (19m 58s):So I think we're trying to shed some light on that and say, no, we're going to heal from that. And I don't think you can heal from it unless you really process it. And some of that is bringing the secrets into the light and no, and people don't like that.Gina Pulice (20m 12s):People don't like it. And you and I have had many conversations following interviews where we said, do we bleep this person's name? Do we cut this thing out? And with the exception of one person who we interviewed, who then said that they didn't want us to air the interview. Nobody has said, I regret saying that. Can you, and, and when they're here talking, I mean, we've encountered people feel such a freedom and a relief and they have no problem naming names. Right. And so it's been our thing of like, do we protect this person's identity? But the other thing is, here's the, here's the part in the whole dynamic that I'm trying to own for what I do in this, in this situation about the secrets and everything.Gina Pulice (21m 1s):I wrote something personal, I published it on our website. I promoted it on social media. Theoretically. I want everybody in the world to read it, except this one guy. Right? Like that's, that's my logic. There is, it's really flawed, right? Like if you're going to be brave, then you have to be brave. Right. You can't be brave only when it's convenient.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (21m 31s):Right. I totally agree. I mean, I think that, and I think it's really great to have the conversations about like, okay, like who are we bleeping and why? And someone on, you know, on this podcast who we, I don't think we've bleeped, but she gets a lot of bad press as Susan Leigh.Gina Pulice (21m 50s):She really does get a lot of bad press.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (21m 52s):I mean, and, and, and, you know, I'm like, man, should we have been bleeping or out, but,Gina Pulice (21m 59s):But she did it. I mean, it's her, she is the person who should be carrying around the shame for her behavior. Not the people who she harmed the, you know, it's not there. And that's the other thing that we have usually all the way backwards is that we make the people who experienced the pain, shut up about it. Yeah. It to, to protect us. And who did the pain. Yeah. Right.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (22m 25s):Yeah. Just, yeah, it's, it's all backwards. And again, it's like, you know, she works for, she worked for an institution and they, they, you know, they should, she grew upGina Pulice (22m 34s):And a time and she's, and she's probably the victim of a lot of sexism. Like it's only, it's all of a piece, but the fact remains that at, at that time, maybe she's a completely different person now, but the fact remains that at that time, she did and said a lot of really racist thingsJen Bosworth-Ramirez (22m 51s):And hurtful and other ways, like, just, I mean, I think racism is hurtful, but like other types of hurtful besides racism, just like weird shit, you know, that hurt people. And I, I mean, it's just their truth. And I think it's actually up to, yeah. I mean, yeah, it's a co it's a, it's kind of a complicated issue and yet it's not complicated. It's like, you're right. We're just protecting the people that hurt us all the time. That's like when I got, when I got that very nasty email from, from that manager, my first response was in, this is interesting. My first response was to drag him through Twitter.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (23m 31s):Like I was going to put his name and say, I got this. It was so hurtful. And I feel like as a woman, as a Latina, that to get this email about fucking formatting, when I'm trying to break into the business is the condescending. I wanted to drag him. And then I thought, okay, there's a difference between speaking your truth and dragging someone. I don't know the difference exactly. Like, I don't know where the nuances lie that make them different, but dragging someone in Twitter versus, and I don't blame people for dragging people on Twitter, either like that. I'm not saying like dragging people is wrong.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (24m 12s):I think some people need to be dragged. I mean, we've talked about Louis C K's of the world and the Weinsteins do, who deserves to be dragged, who does it. And that's really what I wrote my pilot about, but like, I just didn't feel, I think every person has to decide if they're going to keep secrets, why, or if they're going to drag someone why, or like put it in on social media, straight up, this person did this. You have to be, I have to be prepared to deal with the full consequences if I do that. And I'm just not willing to deal with the full consequences of dragging this guy on Twitter. I'm just not, I'm just not, I don't feel certain.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (24m 51s):Now there are people where if something happened, I would work it out and I might feel certain to drag their ass. But it was interesting. I think everyone has to decide for themselves where the line is of when I'm going to expose someone to the fullest, et cetera, or an institution to the fullest extent and leave the individual out of it. I don't know.Gina Pulice (25m 12s):Right. Well, and you, and you don't want to do anything. That's gonna harm you. I mean, if you, if you were in a certain place in your life and you did like people dragging that guy would never have hurt you, then you could've, you could've made that decision. Yeah. And I'll also just say for anybody listening, who knows me in real life and, and who've, I've hurt and misbehaved, I invite you not to keep that secret. You know, I, I invite you to drag me if it's something that, I mean, for the thing, for my, for the sins of my past, if anybody is, you know, holding on to that and never has told me, or whatever, like I'd rather hear about it, I'd rather know, and try to make amends and to party so that I I'll feel that I have the right to participate in this, keeping those secrets, telling the truth culture that I really try to, you know, I really try to stay within.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (26m 16s):Right, right. So, wow. I forgot. I was going to say something else about That's a lot like that. I just feel like, yeah, this whole, this whole notion of keeping, keeping it, you know, and they say in program, like you're only as sick as your secrets. And I think it's really true. And I think there's a way of, of working through the secret that won't bring further harm to yourself versus versus versus doing something that exposes you further. You know what I mean? And brings, and bring, could bring more abuse or you have to look at, I mean, you know, like it's like, except when to do so would injure yourself for others.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (27m 3s):But, but, but, but, but dragging is about sort of injuring others in a way. I don't know. It's like really interesting. I don't know,Gina Pulice (27m 11s):You know, that saying, or I think, I don't know if you call it, call it a saying, is it kind, is it truthful? Is it necessary? Well, I know you're supposed to aim for all three. Yeah. To my way of thinking, you really just need two out of a three. It can be truthful and necessary, like talking about Harvey Weinstein. It's not kind, but that's okay. It didn't need to be constant. So yeah. So that's, that's, that's that tends to be my barometer is if it can't be kind, at least it has to be truthful in this. Yes.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (27m 43s):Agreed. Agreed. And I think that's, I think for me the necessary part, it's like, okay, well, can I, can I proceed to function as a, you know, trying healthy human being without doing this? Or do I need to do something about this to proceed and live my life and feel like I'm living in integrity and that I'm, I'm doing the right thing by, by me. And sometimes you just, and, and also also, right. Sometimes people, people get, they get hurt. Yeah. But they also didn't think about that when they were abusing others. SoGina Pulice (28m 21s):Yes. Oh yeah. That's the other thing that came out with this board thing, you know, when we were writing the letter, somebody said, okay, so this is, we acknowledge, this is scorched earth. You know, this is a scorched earth thing, which I'm very, that is how I think about things a lot. I, I tend to think about scorched earth, but I, it occurred to me when she said this, how come nobody's ever worried about skirts, scorching the earth with me, right? How come no one's ever worried about burning a bridge with me? You know, like, yeah. Maybe it is scorched earth. But if you, if your takeaway from what I've said to you is that I'm the asshole.Gina Pulice (29m 4s):That's fine. I don't care. That's completely fine. Go. I wish you well on your journey, right? It wasn't for you. I guess for this letter, it was for me to say to you, I mean, if you didn't want to receive it, that's your business. Right?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (29m 22s):Well, Today on the podcast we're talking with CISA Hutchinson. She says a graduate from Vassar and NYU, and she's a teacher, she's a playwright. She writes for television and we found our conversation with her extremely focusing and motivating. So please enjoy our conversation with CISA Hutchinson. Hi, good morning. Good. Where are you? Which coast are you on? Are you on the east coast?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (30m 2s):Okay.Gina Pulice (30m 3s):I guess what, I just had to pause, watching to come talk to you, your movie, your amazing movie. Yes. Oh my God. I'm in the scene with the mother right now and it's so good. It's so good.Chisa Hutchinson (30m 23s):Yeah. That's that? Yeah. You know, it's so funny because when I wrote, I wrote it as a play initially, and I was, when I was writing that part, I was like, this is why people don't like theater, just two people talking like whatever, we're going to be full board. But like, I don't know. Everybody seems to like really be engaged by that part. So,Gina Pulice (30m 51s):Oh no. Yeah. There's nothing boring about this movie. It's called the subject. Everybody go check it out. But before I forget, she's the Hutchinson. Congratulations. You survived hotter school. You survived theater school to fancy theater school.Chisa Hutchinson (31m 7s):Well, yeah, sort of. Okay. So I went to Vassar college for undergrad. Yeah. Which was interesting because I knew it was a good theater program, but I didn't know that it was mostly geared toward writers and directors. Because when I, when I sent him down, there was like literally one dramatic writing class taught by a screenwriter who was like, oh yeah, I guess you can write plays if you want. Really like, learned much about the craft of playwriting while I was there.Chisa Hutchinson (31m 46s):But, but I had a good time and I did a lot of independent studies in the English department and the Africana studies department, just to like, you know, learn about plays theater, you know, scripts plays that weren't, you know, Shakespeare or insulin or checkoff or whatever. Right. So that was undergrad. And then I worked for a few years as a high school English teacher.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (32m 21s):My mom was a high school English teacher and it was, it was intense. Where did you teach?Chisa Hutchinson (32m 28s):I taught at Westtown school, which is a Quaker boarding school in Pennsylvania, like 45 minutes Southwest of Philadelphia. And then I taught at Sage hill school in Southern California, orange county, California, which was like a whole other planet. Okay. Like I felt like a whole ass in orange county, California and teaching there. Yeah.Gina Pulice (32m 60s):I feel like the, the cultural translation from the east coast to orange county might be one of the biggest riffs chasms that there is there. It's quiet.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (33m 13s):I was just going to say, you're the first guests that we've had on. And we've had many that I've been like really sort of, no, not that I'm not excited to talk to everybody else, but your, your, I was telling Gina before this, that your bio is the greatest written bio I've ever read in my life. So I told her I'm the queen of queries. Like I write a bad-ass query letter, like, but you are the baddest ass of bios. Like, I, I love that stuff because for me they're usually so down boring, but you're, and same with queries.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (33m 54s):Like, I, I love to write a good query cause it's kind of a challenge how that bio is. You write it like in a second. I mean, I know it's a little thing, but it's a really important thing to me becauseChisa Hutchinson (34m 7s):So long ago I don't even remember, but I just wanted to, I was like, oh, well, you know, there's going to be plenty of chance to send the short, dry, you know, you know, like formal bio. So I was like, I want my website to be, you know, I went to bio on my website to be, you know, to give a sense of like who I am as a person.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (34m 30s):I feel like I, I was like, I with, and it's an, it's the words are economic. It's not like, it's like this long thing, but it's really short. And it's also so compelling. Anyway, I just, I just that's like my just, just, yeah, I have from zoneGina Pulice (34m 50s):It's on her website, everybody, chisahutchinson.com. You can check it out for yourself. It's veryJen Bosworth-Ramirez (34m 54s):Funny. Very good.Gina Pulice (34m 56s):Okay. So by the time you got to T I mean, so what I understand your grad school choice was rather intentional to be about play writing and you picked maybe probably the, one of the best schools did that. Oh. Or maybe you disagree,Chisa Hutchinson (35m 16s):Funny story about the no, no, I loved it. I knew I absolutely loved NYU. I'd probably learn more in one semester there than I did four years. That I'm sorry. I feel like I'm talking smack about vets. I'm really not trying to like smack talk Vassar. It's just, it's really, I think they're doing better now. They've hired a playwright that I really loved to teach playwriting there. So that's, I think progressJen Bosworth-Ramirez (35m 47s):We've had the thing where it's like, I I'm coming to the, the sort of realization that a lot of undergrads are kind of like, well, we'll give it a shot. We don't have a awesome, we're going to really do something good luck. And then you'll go to grad school and really learn. I mean, that's how I kind of feel. So I know you're not talkingChisa Hutchinson (36m 8s):Because I really had a wonderful time at the ribs of great, the great place. And I learned through experience, just not so much through the cracks. And then NYU, it was literally the only grad school I applied to. And that was because I had, I had a workshop production. It was my very first workshop production of a play ever at a professional theater company or not really the Lark play development center, which has since Closed.Chisa Hutchinson (36m 49s):And it makes me so sad because that police was like American idol for playwrights. And like, it was the place people knew to like go to the Lark, the Lark and new dramas are like the two places that everybody knows like, okay, you want to find the next half play. Right. And go to this place. Right. So I had my very first production of a, of a full length play at the Lark and they hooked me up. Oh, hardcore. I w at me, it was so many different people who I still work with to this day. Like, I, I love the LARC. Like everyone I met at the Lark, I have kept and I keep working with them. But the game changer was they set me up with Tina Howe as a mentor.Gina Pulice (37m 33s):Yeah, I did. I did one of her plays and theater school.Chisa Hutchinson (37m 38s):That woman is a genius as a wacky genius. Okay. First of all, she's like, I think back then she had to be in her late sixties, early seventies. I don't even know. Nobody knows how old you, how so? No. She is like this waspy, like proper wasp of a woman of a certain age, you know, who apparently responded like exuberantly to my, to my plate. She liked girls, which, which is about like, again, you know, teenage inner city lesbians, you know, like, so it was really weird to have her be like this, but what she responded to was like, I have like surreal elements in that play.Chisa Hutchinson (38m 25s):And she was, she knows what she's all about. That surreal stuff. So they sent me up with her. They were like, you should have dinner with her after, you know, your, your presentation. And I was like, yeah, yeah, cool. So I had dinner with Tina, how well we just like talked and talked and talked to this little gas so late that I was like, oh shit. Like, I'm about to miss my last train back to New Jersey. And she was like, oh, oh no, you will do no such thing. You will not, you are not taking the train back this late. You are coming home with me. And I was like, oh, okay. So you know how so I had a Latina, how, when we woke up and she made me breakfast and she's just talking, she's had you, do you have an MFA?Chisa Hutchinson (39m 11s):You need any of that say, and I was like, no. She was like, well, you have to not have to apply to grad programs. If you're going to apply, you should apply to some people at NYU. My best friend works at NYU and used to reply. And I'm going to write you a letter of recommendation and you're going to go to LA. So literally I put together like a found out that the down deadline for the application was literally the next day. So I application together in a day and like hand delivered it to the department of dramatic writing and I, and cross my fingers and was just like, all right, well, I'll tell me to apply.Chisa Hutchinson (39m 55s):So I applied and I got in, I got in with a full, a full ride and yeah, I had just an amazing, I love my professors there. They were so dope. And what they do is they make you write. So I concentrated in playwriting, which was a really smart move apparently, because playwrights are like the hot shit in Hollywood right now. But yeah, I concentrated and play writing, but they make you write in other mediums also, as you know, it's mandatory. You have to also take TV writing. You have to also take screenwriting. Yeah. And that is, turns out is a very smart way to structure your Germany.Chisa Hutchinson (40m 39s):We're all working everywhere now. You know, like if there's no, there's so much, you know, cross fertilization happening.Gina Pulice (40m 50s):Yeah. That's fantastic. So we only know about the playwriting program at, I think one other school. So at Tisch, did you, did you write stuff? They then got produced there by the students? I mean, like acting playsChisa Hutchinson (41m 6s):Is the only thing that they don't, because they're not what they try to do. They do have like one collaboration class where they bring in, they try to bring in as many professionals as possible because they want like the one sort of student variable, like the one factor, you know, to be student and everything else to be professionals. So they would bring in professional directors and professional actors for it. Wasn't yeah, it was, it was a little bizarre because it felt like you were just siloed from these people that you should be probably, you know, it'd be making connections with.Chisa Hutchinson (41m 49s):So it was a little ad in that respect, but I see, I get the philosophy behind it. Like I get that. They're like, we want to minimize the minimize or maximize the professionalism.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (42m 4s):Right. I mean, it's, it's, it's just sounds like a really like super bad-ass program that I have a friend, a playwright friend named Michael Allen Harris. I don't know. He just graduated from loved it, loved it, loved it. And now, and I have this thing of going to a lot of grad schools now I'm like, I have a master's in counseling psych. I started a screenwriting program then dropped out because they were assholes. And then I'm like, now I'm like NYU grad school. I, you know, but anyway, I, I love this idea that you okay. Cause I'm, I'm in LA right now. And there's a lot of people that are like, and playwrights are hot shit in Hollywood.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (42m 47s):Right. But I love the idea that you didn't go into playwriting to try to be a hot shit in Hollywood, unless you did. And I'm just making thatChisa Hutchinson (42m 57s):Like live theater, it just fits a medium that just affords you so much nuance. And like, there's just so many idiosyncrasies, you know, like you can do things. And I literally teach a class at the university of Delaware. I call it writing in 3d. It's just a playwriting class. But what I do is I make them do small, you know, short writing assignments. And each assignment is focused on some aspect. Some, some topics, some themes, some something, right. Some element that just takes on a whole other texture when it's live.Chisa Hutchinson (43m 40s):So like the first assignment that they get is like nudity. Right. Which c'mon, you know, like it's D you know, we see cities all day long on the screen, like, and it's no, no big. Right. But like in a live theater, that's a whole other thing. Right? Like nudity, you suddenly, you're like forced to really think about the significance of the nudity when it's like right there in your face. Right. So nudity, silence, silence in a theater is different from silence anywhere else, you know, like you can't really do silence and I'm novel, you know, it's like, well, it's a blank page. Right.Chisa Hutchinson (44m 19s):So with audience participation, like you literally can't do that anywhere else. You know? So yeah. Each assignment, I really try to get my students thinking the possibilities that, you know, they can take advantage of those in, in theater that they can't really get anywhere else.Gina Pulice (44m 41s):You're just making me think of something that makes me so sad, which is that a lot of us do approach just anything performance-related through theater, because it is so singularly special. And then as you have this line in your bio, you write these plays that have more than five characters and deal with themes of race. So they're probably never going to get produced. And actually the way, the way I met you was at the national new play network in Sacramento. I mean, I met you like passing hello, where they did a staged reading of your play America, which looks amazing. Has that ever been produced?Chisa Hutchinson (45m 19s):That is literally, it has been postponed twice pandemic postpartum, but it's where I'm going to start rehearsing for that in January, at alley theater in Houston.Gina Pulice (45m 30s):Fantastic. I'm really happy to hear that. So, you know, so theater gives us all of these things that we can't find elsewhere, and then there's zero money spent on it so that people like you only end up getting to do, you know, bring their brilliance, not only, but you get paid by bringing your brilliance to film and television, it's just kind of sad. You know, that there's, it's not a viable option to really make your living as a playwright.Chisa Hutchinson (46m 0s):It is. It is. I I'm not, if I knew how to fix it. Right. I, I would, but you know, I think we just need to just do the best we can. And every day I wake up feeling great. I mean, even on a, even on a shitty day, and I've had some pretty shitty days, especially like this past week or so, where, I mean just where you just feel gutted and, you know, come out and, or whatever. And you're like, just want to crawl into a cave. But then I'm like, literally like sitting in a house that you bought with, wow, you're doing, you're doing will pay.Chisa Hutchinson (46m 49s):And the fact that I get to do what I like in whatever capacity really, right. Like, okay, theater doesn't pay me enough to live on, but please screen, you know, screen writing or I get to teach. Like I get to talk to sit around every week, just telling young people, like I hear is why words are cool. And then they get all excited. And then they like present their work in class and then they get all, like, they get attached to each other's characters and things know like when they're reading over beating and workshop and it just, it just like tickles my soul.Chisa Hutchinson (47m 35s):So like, why, you know, why, why would I be sad about really anything?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (47m 43s):Can I ask you a question about the gutted nearness of, so did you say I, you sort of brushed over it, but like the governess of, did you say reviews like of your films? Okay. Okay. So here's my question. Here's my question. Because you're someone that's working in an industry that I am like, oh my God. You know, because I'm me, I'm like, they've got it made, you know, whatever it's garbage. I know. But when a review, cause we talk a lot about, on this podcast about resilience or, and I'm obsessed with the idea of resilience or bouncing back, whatever you want to call it. What happens inside you that you're able to say, bitch, keep going. Like, what is that moment for you?Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (48m 24s):Because I'm, I had a week where a asshole said some asshole you things as they do. And then I had to like regroup and keep on with my, my situation. So what did for you, how do you do that as someone, you know, how do you do it?Chisa Hutchinson (48m 40s):Okay. So this is a thing that comes with time. This writing shit, like it's a war of attrition is, is really, really only the people who stick around are the ones who get to succeed on any level really. Right. So if you stick around long enough, right. If you just don't let, when someone kicks you in the face, right. You just kind of have to be like, get up and keep walking. What, what, what did it for me? I think it was like the third or fourth, like mixed review that I got in the times for a play prediction.Chisa Hutchinson (49m 28s):And, and then I thought, bitch, this is, this is your fourth review. And the TA, one of them was like really good, you know, like of all the reviews that I've gotten and I'm picking on the times, because of course that's the one that everybody sees. Right. But like whenever, you know, the reviews come out and some of them are like really fuses and wonderful and that's like fuel and it's, it's awesome. They're usually on the, like really rinky-dink like platforms with like 300 followers. Right. But, but you're like, oh, somebody gets it.Chisa Hutchinson (50m 8s):You know, like somebody, somebody out there, guess what I'm trying to do too bad. Those somebodies they're not the ones with the giant platforms, but it's okay. And so you read those and you absorb them, but then like if you just sort of take a step back and like, I, you know, like I didn't realize, you know, these reviews aren't actually keeping me from getting work. I mean, it would certainly help to have a great review right. In some, you know, in the, whatever the Washington post, whatever, right. Like whatever, big, whatever big platform, it would certainly help to have a great review, but I'm still working.Chisa Hutchinson (50m 49s):Like I still get work, even if, you know, I haven't been anointed by the New York times. Right. Like, so it really is just a matter of like hanging in there. Like, I, I hate to sayJen Bosworth-Ramirez (51m 2s):I love that because, because that is something that I, and we have control over is hanging in there versus having control over whether, whoever at whatever paper or whatever, whatever loves me. I have no control over that, but I can control whether I hang in there or whether it's worth it to hang in there or not. So that's actually something you can actually do. So I like that. It's like, I can do thatChisa Hutchinson (51m 26s):And I'll work on the next thing. Just be working on the next, keep writing happens that when I find that I like get over bad routes, the fastest when I'm already in the middle of the next project. Sure. So like right now I'm working at, so you mentioned the subject just got released this past week, last, last week. Oh my God. How's that week. We just had our premiere party a week ago already, but yeah. And the reviews have been mixed, you know, some people like really get it. And some people I'm like, you are completely missing the point. Like you're completely missing the point and it's very frustrating, but I don't even really have time to be too concerned about it because I'm like, I'm literally in a writer's room for a Hulu show right now.Chisa Hutchinson (52m 16s):So I'm really, I'm, I'm my revision actually is due today after like, I'm going to have to like, you know, I was right in that. I have like 10 more pages that I need to trim, but yeah, I, I can't, I don't, I don't have time to while I can just, you just gotta be like all up in the next thing, all that.Gina Pulice (52m 35s):And it does make sense that review, I mean, reviews are, people have feel all kinds of artists have feelings about reviews, but it really makes sense that a writer would have a hard time, you know, just for example, ignoring reviews because your life is about words and that's what that's, what's happening in a review is the people are assembling words to, to decide, you know, pass judgment on whether or not you have something interesting to say,Chisa Hutchinson (53m 3s):When you write about something personal or when you write about something about which you're passionate, that it feels, so it feels like they just took a knife to your heart, you know? Like it feels so like, yeah, let me just swallow my pride with a chaser of napalm, you know, just like BR like, it just burns you on the inside and you, you just, it feels like you're never going to get over it, but you will. You do, you do the next thing and yeah,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (53m 35s):Really. I mean, ultimately it's like, you know, fuck you and goodbye and good luck and onward, but I love the idea of moving. I always be, cause people used to tell me like, just keep writing and I'd be like, go fuck yourself because I don't want to keep writing. I want someone to like my last project not, but it's true. Like if I can shut up and, and, and stop feeling, sorry for myself, I, I look, it feels good to feel sorry for myself for a little bit. But I feel like if I can actually do something rather than ruminate and create more work, then the steam comes out of it. Just because simply there's not enough space in my brain to keep thinking about what Joe Schmo said in his last email.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (54m 21s):So it is that it's just like focus on the writing, you know, sounds so easy to do, but it's actually, for me, a self preservation thing to keep writing, instead of ruminating on all the things that went wrong with the last, the last project or whatever, you know?Chisa Hutchinson (54m 38s):Yeah. And I'm very lucky also to be doing this in a time where there's Instagram and TikTok because I have like, literally I have like a little collection of videos specifically that I just, that no matter what the hell is going on, like they always make me,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (54m 59s):I love that made me laugh minus the stone guy shoveling. Have you seen, okay, so this is an old one, but it, if anyone out there has, there's a guy who's trying to shovel snow and he cannot get it together. And he keeps falling and it's sort of a metaphor for my life and he just keeps it at the end. He just goes, fuck it. And show that shovel. And there's someone filming his neighbors filming, cracking up, but quietly not trying to make fun, but like in a way that like, man, we have all been there. The dude cannot shovel to save his life. And I was like that. I relate to that shit because it's just like, you're just shoveling and falling in your own shit and falling and someone's bike going way to go.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (55m 44s):I feel you. So with the Tik-toks, I, I, that's a really good thing to do. You keep them for when you feel bad, you watch them or just whenever.Chisa Hutchinson (55m 52s):And then when I'm just like to set for words, you know, I just need to watch a video of big fluffy dogs ripping down the stairs. No, with the voiceover that's like curse. It just, oh my God. It gets everyJen Bosworth-Ramirez (56m 7s):Time,Chisa Hutchinson (56m 9s):Every timeJen Bosworth-Ramirez (56m 11s):I love it, I want to see it. I'm gonna look it up. It's a dog cursing like a voiceover.Chisa Hutchinson (56m 16s):I really wish. Yeah. And he's like this, there are three, three big fluffy fucking dog. You just want to like squeeze them. They're so fucking big and fluffy, you know? And they're like, there are these concrete cores outdoors right there, like three or four stairs. And they're running along the top, the top stair, I'm about to make their way down. But because the coloring and the, you know, how shallow, because of the way the stairs are built on the color, you don't, if you have no depth perception, right. Which those dogs clear would be not.Chisa Hutchinson (56m 57s):It's hard to know that it's not just like grown, we'll go running along the stairs. And one of them that one in the front is like, oh, I can't wait to the, and then I can't wait to get to the, and then he goes Like tumbles down the,Gina Pulice (57m 18s):Okay, we're going to have to try to link to that in our show notes. So people can check it out.Chisa Hutchinson (57m 23s):I will, we send that to you because it cracks me up.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (57m 29s):I'm obsessed. And you're making me see why fails are so important. Like, I love fail videos. I watch news bloopers all day long because what it is is people trying their best to be sincere and be like, I take themselves so serious. I'm going to do my job. And then all of a sudden, the chair falls out and they're like still trying to do their goddamn job. And they're like, and anyway, I'm the news. And you're like, I love it because I feel like that 90% of my fucking life, I feel like I'm like, I could still do this while my legs are being taken out from under me. So anyway, Tik Toks and fails. Yes. They're worth something. They're really good.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (58m 10s):I'm sorry.Gina Pulice (58m 12s):No, no, no. That's okay. No, but that's how it was. No, but it's, I mean, it's germane it's on the topic of survival is we all have ways of surviving the everyday banalities and everyday horrors of life. So you, right before we talked, started talking to you for the podcast, we always do another section of just us talking before. And we were talking about secrets and we were talking about, you know, especially as it pertains to your profession and personal writing, the dangerous territory that you start navigating when it gets into the territory of like family secrets. And I don't mean, you know, so-and-so whatever cheated on his wife.Gina Pulice (58m 57s):I just mean maybe more like a thematic secret where we're protecting this abusive behavior. We're protecting this abusive personality. And I recently in my life made a decision to stop doing that in, in, in multiple arenas, but specifically in one and my awakening about it is all about, I'm not holding anybody else's secrets anymore. It's not me. If you don't want me, if you don't like that about me, then you probably need to reevaluate your relationship with me. I'm done holding on to other people's secrets and actually your movie touches on that a lot.Gina Pulice (59m 42s):And I'm just curious about your own relationship professionally speaking to secrets and how you navigate that test, the difference between say or the potential chasm between saying something that's really true for you and saying something that could somehow hurt you in the future.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 0m 7s):Wow. That's that sounds serious. That's a serious question. I'm kind of with you as far as like, like my husband, for example, he knows he has known from year one when we first started dating that. Like, if it's happening to you while I know you, like, if it's happening between us, like that should it's part like, like that's like, that's, that's fatter. Like I'm gonna, I will use that. Like as an I don't care if it really sort of is a little unschooled, do you?Chisa Hutchinson (1h 0m 47s):Oh, okay. So for example, I wrote, I wrote a book called 101 reasons to not breed. Yes. Lemon. One of the reasons is like kids, if you miss me, like, they're just messy. It's shit. Right. So what I did was I don't have kids. I don't want kids. I'm very clear on this. Right. But I do have a husband who just doesn't even see mess anymore. Doesn't realize when he's like leaving stuff for, so I literally just spent a good few months just taking pictures and text messages that he left around her.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 1m 33s):I mean, ridiculous fucking message. Like socks on the kitchen, counter, dirty socks on the kitchen. I'm like, fuck. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will take a picture of the toilet that you did not cross blew it up. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, I will put, I will literally put your shit on. I will put your shit out there for the world. See if you don't start cleaning up after yourself. Right. Like, so that's okay. Like that's a kind of a funny, you know, version of, of, of that. Right. But there are some other things, there are other things, I mean, in the same book, I actually talk about my mother and my biological mother who gave me away when I was three.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 2m 19s):But like before that, I mean, some of my earliest memories are of her like beating the shit out of me, you know, her and my stepdad beating the crap out of me at three, you know? So yeah. I don't, I don't, I have never had qualms about putting I'm like, you didn't have qualms about putting your fist to my, my little face. Right. So I'm not going to have qualms about like, putting that out there and trying to turn it into a positive, in case there's someone else out there who is feeling some type of way about the fact that their mother abandoned them or whatever, you know, like, I just want to let you know, like, I'm connecting with you, right. You are not alone.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 2m 59s):Right. And you know, you find your family where you can and that's sort of the message of the book is that you don't actually have to like grow grass root, right. Or, or even honor the fact that someone grew you right. In order to, to have family into it and to feel that that familial love. So that's what the book is, is supposed to doGina Pulice (1h 3m 28s):Truett fruit. Oh crap. Okay.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 3m 32s):I love it. So yeah, I, I will, I don't, there's really no such thing as a secret withGina Pulice (1h 3m 40s):You don't have a, a quandary about it. You just go straight .Chisa Hutchinson (1h 3m 47s):I do. I will let people know though, because I don't want to, you don't want to be bad art friend. Right? LikeGina Pulice (1h 3m 56s):Our friends on this podcast,Chisa Hutchinson (1h 3m 58s):I will let you know. I'm like, Hey look, because I left my husband and I'm like, look, I'm putting, do you see these pictures? You know, you see all these shit, you left around the house. Yeah. I took pictures of all of it and it's going in the book. Right. Like he knows, you know, his step, I just, or I'll ask if there's something like, I'm like, ah, hi, how do you feel about me too? Because here's why I'm thinking it will serve the story really well. Or here's why I think it'll help other people connect with it. Or, you know what I mean? Like, I I'm, I'm very clear on like, why I need a particular thing why I need to expose dirty laundry. Right, right, right.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 4m 39s):So, and as long as I can voice that, like most folks are okay with it. Well, what really cracks me up is when the people don't even recognize themselves in yourGina Pulice (1h 4m 49s):Oh, right. They'll or they'll, they'll tell, they'll tell you the character that they know you meant to be them. And it's not, it's like an admirable character and that's not who you areChisa Hutchinson (1h 4m 60s):Now that ain't too.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (1h 5m 2s):I have a question as it relates to like, and I told you to, before this, I was going to ask you this. So I sent him a letter to someone, a query, and I said like, I'm a Latina, I'm a middle aged woman. I'm getting into television bubble. Anyway, I got a horrific, crazy response. And my initial response was to drag the motherfucker on Twitter, but I didn't do it. What, what do you think about, I don't even know if drags the right word out, whatever it is. It was a terrible situation that I felt. And my first response was, I'm going to get this motherfucker. I did not do it. I did not do it. But what do you feel about people that are go, go on social media or groups or whatever.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (1h 5m 44s):I just, what are your thoughts on saying on, on, on doing that? Cause people are doing it a lot, you know? And, and I don't, I don't necessarily Gina and I talked about like, I'm not sure it's a terrible thing. I just, it wasn't right for me to do in that moment also, becauseChisa Hutchinson (1h 6m 1s):It's not a terrible thing, but it's not a great, I mean, it's not very everyone. Like, I, I don't really do it so much because I feel like it's giving them too much power or it's, it's that thing of like, okay, yeah. Dwell, dwell on it for five minutes and then move on like that, because that's, that's really how you can get back at those motherfuckers, right. Is to just like go on with your life and be happy and, you know, find joy elsewhere. Right? Like that's and, you know, to, to dignify their, their fuckery was, you know, you are strongly worded Facebook posts.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 6m 47s):Right. Is what is it doing? You know? I mean, would you feel better? It might make you feel better just to kind of like, get it out there. It also might help you connect with, you know, other people who have experienced a similar thing. Right. And, you know, maybe they were feeling isolated or alone and they're in their failure or in their, whatever it is. Right. So, I mean, I'm not gonna say it doesn't have its uses. Right. But as far as like, is it getting back at that personJen Bosworth-Ramirez (1h 7m 18s):And also, right.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 7m 22s):I really I'm just, so this is a lesson that I'm really just now getting around to like learning in a, in a sort of visceral way. Is that like nobody cares? No, I literally just today was, well that's right. Post, because I saw on IMD be the subject. There are a couple of, and it's really just a couple, like, there are a couple of really awful, I mean, Pete, just users who were just like, you know, clearly expecting it to be a comedy because Jason business owner or something, Make movies fun again, you know? And I was just like, oh dude.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 8m 3s):And they're the ones who, who will take the time to like post over review or post it's their, I can't even call them props because they would have to be thinking I would have to have brain. Right. But I did, like, I went on Facebook, like the closest I'll come is like, I went on Facebook and was like, Hey, y'all alert if you enjoy the movie, like, please rate it. Please post a review because these guys like their opinions, shouldn't be the stand in for everybody. Else's right. And that's, that's really about as close as I'll come. But even that I'm like, I was torn about doing that because I'm like, doesn't even, does it even matter?Chisa Hutchinson (1h 8m 47s):Like,Gina Pulice (1h 8m 48s):And it gets back to this whole thing about reviews because I saw your post and it's specifically men over 45 or something like that. And I thought, yeah, but who else is writing these things, but men over 45, like I'm guilty of loving something and then not writing it down anywhere that I love it because it's, so it's such an, it has become such an important part of art making, like how are people receiving it? And is it getting enough views? And is it getting enough, you know, clicks. And to me it's always just like the person who ha, who wants to take their time when it's not positive to tell you that you put your heart and soul into something and they didn't care for it.Gina Pulice (1h 9m 31s):And I don't understand the impulse, actually.Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (1h 9m 34s):This is the biggest demographic of voters, by the way. I think too, like I I'm just saying like, these are people that like really when they feel something, they feel really entitled to just like trash it. Or I think the, the, maybe the rest of us are so busy surviving. We don't write nice reviews. I don't know. But I started to write good reviews because I realized that for people, for people in that are trying to make projects, whether it's in the arts or not that it actually matters that the rest of us speak up because those voices, like you're saying don't need to be the loudest. Cause they're not, they're not the only voices out there. There's this is people that take the time to click away. Same with the guy who ran the time to use his time to write me a nasty,Chisa Hutchinson (1h 10m 17s):You know, like they're, they, they have a sense of self-importance that I think the rest of us not. And I'm just like, ah,Jen Bosworth-Ramirez (1h 10m 27s):Right, right. So I think the way to counter it is for the rest of us to start for me anyway. Cause I'm, I'm guilty too, of like not when something is great, not saying like, Hey, I love this product. Even if it's a candle, like we have a friend that makes candles, you know, and Gina, you posted about it. That matters. That's that? It's like, I got to take time out of my day, even though I'm busy hustling and all this stuff to like support the things that I do, like so that the loud, loud ass, old white dudes, don't just get to have the whole market cornered on reviews, like come on or whatever. So I think,Chisa Hutchinson (1h 11m 7s):You know, to bark the thing that I like out of existence, right? Like, because that is a thing that can happen too, when there's a perception that like, oh, well nobody wants this. Right. But the only people who have been, you know, it'sJen Bosworth-Ramirez (1h 11m 22s):And it's like, oh, this movie, this movie, or this project or whatever didn't do well, no, no, it actually did fine. It was just that the people that were screaming the loudest and felt entitled to scream, you know, people, we think that we give them importance. So it's like, we have to take back the, the importance of like, you know, the other voices it's just goes about like other voices in the room that aren't, aren't being heard.Chisa Hutchinson (1h 11m 45s):People kno

We discuss the ongoing battle amongst the school board and parents in Virginia as the election inches closer.  Our guests are: Joe Mobley, John Fredericks, Oscar Blue Ramirez, Terry Schilling Stay ahead of the censors - Join us warroom.org/join Aired On: 11/01/2021 Watch: On the Web: http://www.warroom.org On Podcast: http://warroom.ctcin.bio On TV: PlutoTV Channel 240, Dish Channel 219, Roku, Apple TV, FireTV or on https://AmericasVoice.news. #news #politics #realnews

WTYM EP 51 Vanessa Ramirez: Mexican Monster MakerVanessa Ramirez: Sculptor | Monster MakerIn this episode we discuss how a Mexican introvert became an artist and her transition from 2d to 3d art. Vanessa “embracing the cute” to create her solitary monsters. How her drawings convey puffiness similar to the ghosts in City of Ghosts. Then Vanessa and Ritzy, two brown women, get hella real about mental health and how they both f*ck with Brene Brown heavy!The Supernatural Bear CornerDuring The Supernatural Bear corner, The SNB (9yrs old) talks about what he thinks of Vanessa's monsters.New Patreon Patron: Berry from Podcastsincolor.com GRACIASBonus Episode Links:Latino Comics ExpoCity of Ghosts on NextflixBrene BrownAtreyu's “Creature”Europe's The Final CountdownWTYM is brought to you byWord To Your Mama Store: Use code WTYM at check out to receive 10% off any order ritzyperiwinkle.comWTYM Patreon PageDONATEMEDIA KIT AVAILABLE WHERE EVER YOU CONSUME PODCASTSon socials @wtymama | email: hola@wordtoyourmama.com

Capt. Ed Rameriz – LASD Golf Tourny//Woks – Panda Express / Chinese food//Dog Show fight / 4th Booster//GAS – Breaking LAX full ground stop//Date: Friday, November 5, 2021//West Hollywood Sheriff's Foundation//2021 Charity Golf Tournament 16th Annual Classic//(In Memory of Lt. Jimmy Farrel)

Capt. Ed Ramirez (31 years of service) comes on to talk with Tim about the upcoming golf charity event.Date: Friday, November 5, 2021West Hollywood Sheriff's Foundation 2021 Charity Golf Tournament 16th Annual Classic(In Memory of Lt. Jimmy Farrel)

Únete a la comunidad #EnDefensaPropia — tenemos contenido exclusivo: talleres, mentorías, Q&A con expertas y mucha gente bella comunidad.endefensapropia.com ¿Qué es la felicidad y cómo alcanzarla? Ese fue el tema principal del Kit de Emergencia de hoy, donde conversó con Sylvia Ramírez, abogado y profesora con posgrado en Felicidad y Liderazgo. Autora de dos libros: “Felicidad a prueba de oficinas” y “Manifiesto de Felicidad”. Sylvia comenzó la busqueda de la felicidad cuando buscaba un alivio a su propia infelicidad. Lleva años estudiando temas como el bienestar, liderazgo y comunicación y está empeñada en que entendamos que la felicidad no viene por accidente, hay que trabajar por ella, tomar micro decisiones un día tras otro para labrar el camino hacia ella. Esta una conversación es para que la escuches con papel y lápiz. Sylvia es rápida, franca y llena de herramientas útiles para aplicar en nuestra vida #EnDefensaPropia SUSCRÍBETE: https://www.youtube.com/erikadelavegaoficial WEB: http://erikadelavega.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/erikadlvoficial/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/ErikaDLV Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/erikadelavega/ Producción: Valentina Carmona https://www.instagram.com/pelicarmona Producción: November Content https://www.novembercontent.com/ Edición: Adriana Cols Fermin https://www.instagram.com/criarensintonia/

Sucio_Talk Presents Sebastian Ramirez-Lohner. Im Excited To Feature My First Boricua On The Show!!!! Sebastian Is The Chef De Cuisine At Senor Bear In Denver, Colorado. Born And Raised On Our Beautiful Isla He Grew Up Restaurant. Spending His Time As A Young Child In His Family Restaurants And Their Specialty Produce Company In Puerto Rico. We Talked About What It Meant For Him to Train As A Young Chef, The Many Friends And Connections Hes Made Over The years In The Industry, And How That Led Him To Open His Own Restaurant. He Then Discusses His Journey Of Coming up To Denver To Take Over As Chef De Cuisine At His Current Spot. Just Spending The Time Recording This Episode With Chef SEBA! I Was In Awe Of The Respect This Man Posseses For Our Craft. One Of The Humblest People Ive Ever Met In My Life.Ladies & Gentleman Please Enjoy Episode 37"Hecho En Casa"#Sucio_Talk Also Available On@SpreakerPodcast@GooglePodcast@ApplePodcast@AudiblePodcasts@youtubeSUBSCRIBEREACH OUT!! suciotalk@gmail.comWRITE IN KITCHEN STORIES AND THEY MAY BE FEATURED ON THE SHOWBe Sure To Share Anytime You're Listening On Your Social Media#sucio_talk #suciotalk #suciotalks #david_sucio #davidguilloty  #chefdavidguilloty #boricua #puertorico #100x35 #420 #badassesingeneral #spreakerpodcasts #foodie #chefs #chef #cook #cooks #cooking #cuisine #history #travel #entrepreneur #food #love#brownchefsPEACE!

We get first hand reporting from the border, discuss Biden's polling, and the daily outrage in Loudoun County.   Our guests are: Oscar Blue Ramirez, Auden Cabello, Jack Posobiec, Dr. Peter Navarro, Matthew Tyrmand Stay ahead of the censors - Join us warroom.org/join Aired On: 10/27/2021 Watch: On the Web: http://www.warroom.org On Podcast: http://warroom.ctcin.bio On TV: PlutoTV Channel 240, Dish Channel 219, Roku, Apple TV, FireTV or on https://AmericasVoice.news. #news #politics #realnews

We get first hand reporting from the border, discuss Biden's polling, and the daily outrage in Loudoun County.   Our guests are: Oscar Blue Ramirez, Auden Cabello, Matt Salmon, Terry Schilling, Tiffany Polifko Stay ahead of the censors - Join us warroom.org/join Aired On: 10/27/2021 Watch: On the Web: http://www.warroom.org On Podcast: http://warroom.ctcin.bio On TV: PlutoTV Channel 240, Dish Channel 219, Roku, Apple TV, FireTV or on https://AmericasVoice.news. #news #politics #realnews

Betrayal! Tim and Ted suffer their worst abuse yet at the hands of the ruthless Geek Squad leader, Randy "The Dog" Ramirez. There are heroes on both sides, but mostly theirs. Evil is everywhere. Plus, Tim and Ted discuss their plans for Tim's ex-wife's upcoming Halloween wedding. Also, recapping the phenomenal Ted Lasso finale, living in the media spotlight, and surviving in a house of darkness. Support Tep Talk on Patreon: Patreon.com/TechTalkPod

We break down NIH funding and the part Collins and Fauci played in it.  Our guests are: Oscar 'Blue' Ramirez, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Mark Finchem, Natalie Winters Stay ahead of the censors - Join us warroom.org/join Aired On: 10/26/2021 Watch: On the Web: http://www.warroom.org On Podcast: http://warroom.ctcin.bio On TV: PlutoTV Channel 240, Dish Channel 219, Roku, Apple TV, FireTV or on https://AmericasVoice.news. #news #politics #realnews

We discuss polling and discuss the massive migrant march coming towards our southern border.  Our guests are: Oscar 'Blue' Ramirez, John Fredericks, Gen. Mick McGuire, Dr. Kelli Ward, Mike Lindell Stay ahead of the censors - Join us warroom.org/join Aired On: 10/26/2021 Watch: On the Web: http://www.warroom.org On Podcast: http://warroom.ctcin.bio On TV: PlutoTV Channel 240, Dish Channel 219, Roku, Apple TV, FireTV or on https://AmericasVoice.news. #news #politics #realnews

Intro: Gina ordered her theatre school transcriptsLet Me Run This By You: knowing when to let go, moments of clarityInterview: We talk to Ammar Daraiseh about being an MFA, homesickness, Joe Slowik and Bella Itkin, Joe Mantegna, type casting, being a middle eastern actor, Sweet Smell of Success, film noir. www.ammardaraiseh.com - there is where you can watch Ammar's acting reel and my short films he produced www.karenkanas.com - Ammar's wife's website FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):2 (10s):And I'm Gina . We went to theater school1 (12s):Together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later,2 (16s):We're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all1 (21s):Theater school. And you will too. Are we famous yet?2 (34s):Frog into my, my morning frog out of my throat yet. How you doing? I am. Wow. I have a lot to talk to you about, oh, I1 (45s):Half expected you to have red hair this morning.2 (49s):Oh, do you think I should. I okay. But like, did you see the picture? I put a run Lola run. I mean, that might be a little hard to maintain.1 (59s):It's super hard to make, like you'll, you'll have to be the salon and read six weeks at least, or four weeks for root touch-up. But I mean, I personally think the routes coming in would look cool, but wow. Yeah,2 (1m 13s):The whole rally thing. Well, I'll keep you posted cause I, I definitely want to do something different, much different what's going on. Okay. So first thing I'll just get out of the way is for fun, because we're always trying to remember our classes and who taught and what gear we did, everything I ordered my transcript, which unfortunately does not have the names of your professors. Just, yeah, it just has the name of the class and my grades were fair, not great. Like I had a 3.5 or something like that, which I would have, I thought in my memory that I got really good grades in college, but they were really just pretty average.2 (2m 1s):But guess what my lowest grade was in1 (2m 8s):Was it, was it, well, the easy choice is add Colleen,2 (2m 13s):My C my, my one and only see mine was an intro to psychology. I was talking to my husband about it and he goes, yeah, I got a low grade too. He's like, we were just basically saying, this is all too real. We're not ready yet. I think1 (2m 40s):That's a great observation by him.2 (2m 44s):See my whole areas. It's just hilarious. And then in other classes where I was sure, you know, I was hated like an alcohol use class in that I got A's so my God isn't that it's also subjective, like our, our experiences, something as subjective and then our memory about something totally changing. Only subjective as the years go by. Right.1 (3m 7s):It's not just subjective. It's yeah. It's very like mutating subjects, right? Yeah. That's crazy. Oh my God. So you ordered your transcript. Okay. Now you have a transcript2 (3m 21s):And guess what? Anybody can, it's 25 cents. Like if you have, if you haven't ordered, like you have a certain number, you can get in a certain period of time. And so your first one is 25 cents. You,1 (3m 33s):Anybody else want to have a transcript? You2 (3m 36s):Could relive your, your grades. Oh my gosh. Might find some surprises. Do you think you would find some surprises in your1 (3m 42s):I'm? Sure. I mean, I know for a fact that I, that I, I was supposed to drop a class, a, a non, obviously non theater school class, and I never dropped it. So if you don't drop it, you get an F. So I got an F in, like, I want to say it was like sociology or something like that. And I almost didn't graduate because they thought, yeah. And so you can't, I knew it was like, I remember my last year, my senior year, I had to like, do all kinds of regular role. And the other thing is that I didn't do was one year, one quarter or something you had to like re up your financial aid and I didn't do that.1 (4m 24s):So I didn't pay for like a quarter. And they were like, yeah, you're, I'm so shocked. I graduated. I don't know what was happening. They were like, yeah, you have to pay.2 (4m 35s):I had to do some real tap dancing to my parents graduate.1 (4m 39s):Yeah, I remember that, but I don't. Yeah. I I'm sort of scared to look at the grades. I don't.2 (4m 46s):Yeah. I mean, whatever, it's like a grade and acting school is just kind of funny. It should probably be, and maybe at some schools it is pass, fail. It just should be pass, fail. Like you either got it. Or you didn't get it. You either write forth effort or you didn't. Right. So that's kind of, wow. Okay. And update on surprises. Because last week I was saying like, I'm open to surprise. And it worked, which is to say, I think pretty much not that like some big surprise came falling out of the sky, like is what, the thing that I was really after. But instead I did, I took my own advice and like pursued, doing something differently.2 (5m 27s):And on Saturday we ended up, I just on Friday night when Aaron came home, I said, I want to have fun tomorrow, but I've got to get out of this house. I've got to get out of this town. And so he searched up like fun things to do. And he found something which actually was terrible, but it didn't matter because it was different. And we, it was a car. It was, it, it was promoting itself as some like amazing fall festival with all this kind of stuff. And it was literally a carnival, like the Carney trucks. It's amazing.1 (6m 7s):Like, yeah. Right. Oh, well they had some good marketing.2 (6m 11s):Yeah, they sure did. Cause it was listed as the number one thing to do in my state this weekend, the state and the state and the state. But even, maybe it was a slow weekend and we had fun. Anyway, we had fun. We went to a town we've never been to, we spent time together. You know, it, it was fine. It was good. And more importantly, I feel like it, it just doing something like that and genders like, okay, what else can you do? What else? You know? So I think that, that was the important thing is that it opened me up to1 (6m 43s):Novelty. Did anyone else, did anyone get hurt on a ride?2 (6m 48s):No, but the whole time I was like, I bet this is going to be one of those times where one, we're one of these things just going to go flying off into the, so if you really want to call it,1 (6m 58s):If you really want to go down a crazy dark rabbit hole, like, okay, well I'm obsessed with fail videos fails. You know, if you watch carnival fails. Oh my God. And most of them are deadly. Thank God. But they're just like, where thing flies off. Or like, like a lot of times what you have is cell phones going crazy or birds like birds attacking people on rollercoasters is one of my favorite things to watch. It's not that the bird is attacking. It's at the bird is just trying to fucking fly. And it runs smack into a person on rollercoaster, the best thing you've ever seen.1 (7m 38s):But the sad thing is 90% of the time the bird dies, you know? But like, because the velocity, the force is so great, but it's pretty freaking funny. People are filming themselves usually like right then all of a sudden, a huge pigeon like common. So carnival fails is, is one thing where like someone's standing there like videotaping their friend on the tilt, a whirl or whatever the hell it is and a bolt or something goes with. And they're like, oh, that was a part of the ride. So2 (8m 13s):You're standing there as an adult. I mean, as a kid, you're just like, this is the most amazing thing ever. But as you're sitting there as an adult, you just can see like the hinges where things fold up into the, you know, and you're just like, this is just, we're just all hoping that nothing bad happens, right. Best you can do is cross your fingers and hope for the best. Right.1 (8m 33s):And the other thing is that I I'm obsessed with watching is those Slingshot videos. So some people pass out, pass out or like people's weaves fall, fly off and like, or, well, yeah, like people pass out, but I like when things fly off or when just people say really weird stuff or like, yeah. But those2 (8m 55s):Slingshots are horrible. They look horrible ever. I would never, of course, of course, where I'm sure many people have been slung right off into an alligator pit ever at the museum again. Oh, that's crazy. Okay. So the, the big O thing that changed for me since I last talked to you and I'm fighting the urge since yesterday to call you for the podcast, I haven't heard the podcast. Well, I wrote down the headline is I'm going to do this in a politic way organization on the brink of collapse, ALEKS new leadership to ensure its future spends next two years, undermining their, every effort says leadership.2 (9m 40s):We quit. I have quit the organization organization that I have dedicated a lot of hours to serving. And it happened. Yeah. It happened after a meeting last night that went left and it didn't even honestly, as these things, are, it didn't even go as left as it's gone. There's been times where it's gone so much further skew, but all of us just had it. And actually after our interview today, I have, we have an emergency meeting to talk about it, but my decision is made, I quit.2 (10m 25s):I fully quit. Like I'm, I'm happy to help transition or whatever. And yeah, that happened inside. Like how did you come to the, like what happened in, what have you? Yeah. So this is kind of like a combination, just like what I wanted to talk to you about. And then also what I want to run by you because, you know, I just wrote that blog post about like how I meant examining myself in relationships and how I sometimes in the past have just, you know, one day just up and left. And the first time I did that, that felt the way that actually this thing felt last night was when I broke up with my first boyfriend in high school, it was literally like I was asleep.2 (11m 10s):I shot up out of bed, like in a movie. And I said, I've got to break up with this guy. And I got my clothes on and I got in my car and I drove over to his house and I walked into his house. I didn't knock the door. I walked in the house, he was in the bathroom getting ready. I, I had a little box of his shit. I go here by, I walked, he's following help cheetah. What's the matter, what's the matter. And I left. I mean, we, we did speak after that. And actually I had a couple of really crazy incidents with him even like later in life when I ran into him as an adult. But, and you know, that was terrible of me to do that was terrible.2 (11m 51s):But now I understand that it was because I lacked the ability to say along the way I don't like this. And I don't like that. And just kind of kept putting up with it and putting up with it. And I think my big takeaway from how I conducted myself in this organization is that I put up with stuff and put up with stuff that I really should have found more backbone along the way to say, I don't like the way you're talking to me. I don't like the way you're treating me. And in fact, I had the group of people that I work with. It I'm basically the leader of, you know, they were constantly expressing to me that they felt really abused by this group. And I would validate that and listen to them and agree with them.2 (12m 36s):But then when it came time to going back to the group, I fell short of saying, this will not stand. You know what I mean? I never did that. I never put my foot down and said, this that's enough because I was trying to do it in this way that I feel you're kind of supposed to do as a leader of something you're supposed to keep a level head. And it's really, frankly, it's a lot like being a therapist, you take people's projections and you take their shit and you, and you're able to see, okay, this thing is about me. This thing is not about me. This is just you projecting your shit onto me and you try to like, keep it moving for.2 (13m 17s):Good. Great. And it's not that we never responded with, like, this is not a feedback. Yeah. But it, I mean, obviously it didn't work. It didn't get us to where we needed to go. So we ended the meeting yesterday. I stayed on and talked to my cohort. I said, you guys, I'm, I'm done. And there was seven of us and only four of us were, were talking after cause or five of us. So there was two people who had no idea, but, but four of us said, we're ready to, oh.2 (13m 58s):And I spent three hours last night writing a letter that just basically told the whole history and laid it out. Exactly why, you know? And I wrote it as like, we came to this decision. I don't know if we're coming to this decision because we have to have our meeting later and I just laid it all out. And I just said, you know, basically we're at cross purposes here. Like you asked us to do something that we are doing and you don't like the way we're doing it. So it's fundamentally not going to work out. Wow. I was all revved up. I stayed awake until two 30.2 (14m 38s):Sure. Yeah. I've been there got three hours of sleep. Holy shit. Feeling great. 1 (15m 0s):Good for you. I mean, I think the other thing is like, yeah. I mean, I think that when things, something isn't working, yeah. I've always struggled with knowing when to, when to leave something and like when to, I never knew, okay. Like even stupid shit, like staying home, sick from school. So like, my mom always taught us, like, you never do that unless your like hand is falling off and even then you try to go. But so then in my adult life, when I never knew when was the time to listen to yourself?1 (15m 43s):Yeah. Or to call it quits. Yes. Right, right. To listen to myself or like, was that, and I always second guessed myself for a long time. And even like, like I remember having like a date, you know, with, with a friend or she was really like a mentor, like an authority figure. That's always when it gets really kicked up. And I didn't know, like if I was sick or just wasn't feeling off, should I cancel? Would they be mad at me? Would I, could I take care of myself? What did taking care of myself look like? Because sometimes, and people would say like, people would, I would ask for advice and they say, sometimes taking care of yourself means staying home. Sometimes it means pushed through a little bit.1 (16m 25s):I never knew what, how to do that. So I never had a gauge. So it sounds like you're learning finally to like, or like you're coming to the thing of like this, this is not right. This is not working for me. And, and, and I'm going to make a bold move and then I'm going to stick by that bold move. And also knowing that like, you know, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a move that right. That you can back up that you feel done and that you don't need to ask for reassurance or like try to, but that you're done.1 (17m 9s):I mean, I think that's really great. I mean, I think it's part of being a self-actualized adult to know when something's over and, and why it's over and how to do it. Right. How to end it right by you for you versus like the right thing that people want you to do. Oh,2 (17m 27s):100% that, and that thing that you're describing about the way that we need to be able to differentiate when I'm just feeling avoidant versus when I really need to, that is such a crucial part of a person's development. And I can say, as a parent, it's pretty hard to teach because you're like, I don't know. Do you really feel sick or really just not want to go to school? Like it's, it's tricky.1 (17m 56s):I, I mean, I can't imagine doing that with someone else because I literally am just now learning at 46, how to do it with myself. So like, like I can't imagine being, because the second guessing it's so interesting. It's like, it's like my, my growing up, it was, yeah, it was literally like, you, you didn't ever, you always muscled through, but I guess the, the, the, and it's like, how do you know that muscling through is too much? What is the answer? Like, you're dead. Like, that's going to be how you found out. Like, I remember this and it wasn't just my parents.1 (18m 38s):Like I remember my aunts, my aunts had a cleaning business. Okay. My mom's sister and her and her wife, or at the time her girlfriend, they had a cleaning business. So they cleaned people's houses. And at the end of, I think it was, I don't know which some play I was in at the rescue. And it must have been, I think it had to be it wasn't yellow boat. So it had to be this other search for delicious. Anyway, I was really sick. And, you know, obviously we, we still do performances when we're sick. That's another thing that needs to change. Right. And they're trying to change people's trenches anyway, I'm sick as a dog and I I'm sick as a dog. And I, I had to schlep my shit from the Myrtle Ruskin.1 (19m 19s):And the next day I was supposed to clean houses with my aunt. Like I was helping her. She gave me like a part-time job, but I'm so sick. And the night before I call, I'm literally like, like I'm hacking up blood. It turned out I had pneumonia and I had to go to the, it, it was, it was crazy. But my aunt was so mad at me that I had to bail. She shamed me. She was like, I can't believe you let me down. I literally can't talk. And she's she? And you know, she was the adult and I was a young adult, but she was anyway, the point is it, wasn't just my parents. It's a whole thing of like, how could you leave us?2 (19m 54s):We're going to have to talk about this with Molly Smith, Metzler, who we're going to be talking to in like maybe next week or the week after who's the creator and showrunner of a major television series. That's based on a book because this theme comes up in that series. And it's, it's something related also to, I don't know. I don't really remember if you told me that your mom's family grew up with money or without money, but1 (20m 21s):Without with, with, and then without, so they, they had it in Columbia and they didn't have it here.2 (20m 27s):Yeah. So people without money, I mean, it's, it's true. The, the decision about muscling through it is really, usually one about survival. Like you don't have the option, but for people who are, you know, in our situation now, I mean, I think the only way you really learn that for yourself, whether you should stay in through or not is with experience of, well this time when I didn't feel like doing something, and then I did it, I felt better this time when I didn't feel like something doing something. And I did it, I felt worse. Like, and just trying to build up the data as to say, this is an example of a time, like just, just the ability to be able to at, at our age, we've had enough experience that we can think through almost any set of, you know, like, okay, well, if I go to this thing, like, I think you were talking about you, miles was at the hospital getting checked out for a possible recurrence of his cancer and you were doing a reading.2 (21m 32s):Oh, oh,1 (21m 33s):It was the worst. It was insane. I was in the chapel at the hospital trying to memorize lines for a fucking 10 minute play reading that was supposed to be on book. And then they told me it was off book. And then2 (21m 46s):You weren't getting paid for that. Wasn't going to advance your career in any way. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. This is, and so the, the thing I really want to run by you is about like moments of clarity and really you can't force a moment of clarity it to me, or maybe you can, I can't, it just comes to you, you know, it just, it just comes to you for me, it comes to me in a moment and it just feels like on ambivalent, there's no question. This is what I have to do. This is what I can't do. This is what I can do. And I think the only way you get there is with time.1 (22m 25s):Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's time and I think you're right. I think it's like trying it out. Like I tried this, it went horribly wrong or I tried this and yeah. And also, yeah, I think right there was this thing too, of like, there's also this thing I feel, and maybe this also goes back to the, the working class. I don't know what it is, but it's like people wanting to end things the quote right. Way. So like my, my mom was always big on like, you know, and my dad about like, having a conversation, like having to sit down with people and say, Hey, this is how I feel.1 (23m 11s):And like, it was a cop-out to like send an email or a cop-out to, but that's also kind of, garbagy like, people am things the way they can end them in the moment. And they, I don't know, I don't hold it against people for ending things the way. Look, it, would it be great if we could have closure and like, stuff like that. But like, what if, I don't know, I'm just like all for now, people doing things the way that they feel like in the moment they need to do them. Like, I don't, like I used to get into, like, I remember like leaving a sponsor relationship and she was so she was not well in my view.1 (23m 53s):And she was, and I've sent her an email and she really wanted to have a sit down. And yes, there's two things are true. Like, I was really scared to sit down with her and tell her, like, I think you're fucked up and this isn't working for me or whatever, but I also didn't feel safe enough to do that.2 (24m 10s):Yeah. Yes. That's. The other thing is if we lived in a world where it was a given that everybody was being forthright and honest and was themselves in constant dialogue about their strengths and weaknesses, and was B you know, if we lived in a world where everybody was operating from a basic level of like honesty and good intentions, then this problem would be much easier to these types of problems would be much easier to resolve because you'd say, well, I mean, it just would be a given, like, of course nobody would want to see me suffering to do.2 (24m 51s):Of course, they'd rather, you know, but you can't, that's not the situation in most cases. So you literally can only rely on your own understanding of yourself. Right.1 (25m 1s):Different context. Right. And I know that there's, there's the there that looking back, I wish I had ended things differently in a lot of different ways, but I did what I, I did what I could, you know, I did really could, but I just remember it being like my, my dad being like, you know, you should really sit down with them and talk to them and being like, you know, why like, okay, I, I hear what you're saying. So when people, yeah. I think, I think being willing to have conversations and having hard will being willing and open and available to having hard conversations with people is so much more difficult than people make it out to be.1 (25m 41s):Because like you're saying, it takes, it has all it takes. It's all these things come into play. It's not just like, I'm going to be a mature adult and do this the right way. It's like, what am I willing to have? What can I handle? You know,2 (25m 55s):W what can I handle? And, you know, in some cases, if an issue is really contentious, it becomes, you know, if I sit down with this person and really try to, they might actually further harm me. Like, I I've already had that experience with some people in this group that where I've decided, okay, the approach is I have to call this person. Right. I have to say, Hey, we're, you know, not seeing eye to eye. And a couple of times when I did that, it turned out fine. Right. And a couple of times when I did that, I thought,1 (26m 26s):Why did I do that? Yeah.2 (26m 28s):Like, not just, that was bad for me, but that was bad for them. And I feel like, I, I feel like I took us several steps backwards just because this person's mentally unwell and I'm able to have like a reasonable back and forth in a conflict.1 (26m 42s):Right. So it's, it's, it's a lot more complicated, I think, than people people think. And also right when you're done, you're done. And when you're done, it's like, how can I extricate myself and not try to cause further harm to other people, but also not trying to cause further harm to myself.2 (27m 3s):Yeah. Yeah. Which is literally, you're the1 (27m 6s):Only person who can do that. Right. That's nobody else's job. Right. Somebody else's job. Holy shit. Well, congratulations.2 (27m 14s):Thank you. So how are you doing1 (27m 16s):Well, this is, I'm pretty good. I'm on, I'm so weird. I don't even know. I don't think I told you this last Wednesday. I had a zoom look. I haven't had any auditions in a long time. Last Wednesday. I had a zoom audition for a film being shot in Chicago. And of course, and now I'm on, I'm on hold for it. I'm on check avail for films in Chicago. And it's a big film. And it's, I'm like, what2 (27m 43s):If it's going to start filming, like on one, the one-year anniversary of the day you guys went there and then had to stay,1 (27m 50s):Well, the thing is, it starts filming Monday, but I oh yeah. For a month. But I, I, my part is super, super small. So I doubt I I'm thinking it's a one or two days shoot. If I book it and you know, the difference of, I mean, I feel like petrified of getting it because I'm, I'm just, I I'm, we're really, you know, that's my first go-to, but I also felt like it was the first time in an audition where I was like, you know, like, how can we talk about this on here? But like, how willing am I to treat myself? Like, shit, I'm not anymore as much. So like, no matter what happens if I, if I, you know, I'm not even sure I want to be an actor.1 (28m 36s):Right. So, so I, I have to get clear about that. I, so if I'm not really sure that this is my life's path, then, then, then the reason that I'm scared is definitely old stuff of being approved of and making a fool of myself and feeling like all is lost if I screw up, like, so that's what I'm working with. It's not so much that this is my dream. And I want so badly to be in this film that I'm so nervous. It is old stuff, which doesn't mean that it makes it easier, but it's just clear. So I'm getting clear. So I was like, all right, if that's the case, then how can I work with that? And I just, I just had, I was like, you know what?1 (29m 17s):I'm not going to pretend that I don't care because I do, but I'm also not going to, I just put my foot down in terms of beating, being, being cruel to myself, I put my foot down. I said, I am not, I am not willing to berate, belittle and hurt myself if I screw this up. Or if I don't get it, or if I do get it, I am not no longer willing. I'm just going to have to set some boundary with myself about my, my, how far am I willing to go with my, with my weirdness craziness and, and self abuse. And I just, so I didn't go there and now I'm on top of avail.1 (29m 59s):I mean, you know, it's like, it, I'm not saying they're totally related, but I'm just saying like, it makes sense to me.2 (30m 5s):Yeah. It makes sense. Because every time you go further and that's been the case like over the last year or the, we talked about this every time you you're like, I don't, I, you let it go. And all of a sudden,1 (30m 17s):Yeah. And like, no matter, I think the, for me, the freedom lies in no matter how badly I do or think I do, no matter how awful rotten, I may screw this up in my head, or even in real life screwed up because it happened, I am not willing to treat myself like a piece of shit. Like that's where I got to, because I thought that is the only thing I have control over really, really the evidence shows that I have control. And even that is questionable sometimes. But if I'm going to have control or ownership over anything, let it be about how I treat myself as I go through this experience or I'll still do it, or else not stop auditioning because this doesn't, this is not.1 (31m 7s):And so I thought, okay, okay, can I, can I, and I, and I, I really was like, I was like, breathe. You know, it's a zoom audition, it's weird breathe. And it was just me in casting. And then I just went right to check avail, but which is great, but two scenes and w and we'll see, but I think it just, it's all fodder for like, can I put, can I stop treating myself terribly well,2 (31m 32s):Well, you know, one thing for certain, you can never go wrong when that's your guiding principle, you can go wrong when your guiding principle is, will they like me? And is it okay at, am I good enough? You know, but you'll never go wrong with when you're trying to set when you're just trying to do something intentionally. I mean, that's kind of what we're talking about is like being extremely intentional, right. Instead of reactive about right. How do I want to wind my way through the situation? What do I want my, this is just a concept that I really am new to, what do I want out of the situation? How do I want to reflect back on how I conducted myself, forget about what I want them to do.2 (32m 13s):Right. Because that's what I've been focused on my whole life, the other person to do.1 (32m 17s):Right. I, I, how can I make, how can I, how can I yeah. Make this easier for them, better for them read their mind, do what they want me to do. And I'm like, oh my God, that, that, that not only forget, it's not, it can't happen because in my make-believe mind that that, that doesn't come into play, but it, it, it feels terrible. And it, and it increases my anxiety and depression because it's so, it's so unattainable. So at least if I, if, like you said, like, if I'm the, if I'm the problem, right. If I'm the problem, that means that I'm also inside of me is also the, when the solution, the success, you know, that, thank God.2 (33m 7s):Yeah. Yeah. Thank God. Yeah. That's the best news. So I have, I actually was just a couple of days ago thinking about you and your career paths and, and, and like the things that you have described to me, like you, you basically pursued acting because of your relationship with this other person who you wanted to emulate. And then you basically, you know, got the job as the, as the Hollywood assistant when somebody else came. I mean, it was all kind of, you know, not, maybe not that intentional.2 (33m 50s):And I remember having like, kind of a aha thought about it. I should have written it down because it's not occurring to me right now, but it was something about like, maybe it was just that the further she goes in figuring out the basic questions about what she really likes and what she really wants, this is going to be less and less of a thing. Like, you're the thing that you you've said a lot. Like maybe I should work at seven 11. Maybe I should work at this bakery. I don't know. There's something to it that I feel maybe it's that I feel you're really changing for yourself right now.2 (34m 35s):I see you approaching things with a lot more intentionality1 (34m 38s):And you know, what was so crazy is that I think this podcast for us is a way of actually looking at all that stuff. So like, even if the POC, I mean, I hope it goes, goes a global. And, but even if it's just for you and I to look at what the hell am I doing? Who am I, how, how can I make things better for myself? And thus be a better like kinder human probably for everybody else. Then that was all worth it. Because it's like, I could not keep going the way I was going and expect to be happy, or even at peace or even do something fun. Like I had to look at like, wait, wait, wait, what is underneath all this?1 (35m 20s):Like, I should just work at seven 11. And, and I, you know, and we say, this we've said this before, but like, I want to be clear, seven 11 is not the problem. I am the problem. Right? So like you work at seven 11. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that, like, for me, what using that is as an excuse and our tool to try to figure out like, okay, where do I belong? That's what it is like, where do I belong? Where do I want to belong? Where can I contribute? But also, like you say, like, what do I want, where do I want to belong?2 (35m 54s):It's actually the, are you my mother phenomenon? You know? But in this case regarding like, where's your place in the world instead of wandering around wondering like who's in charge of you or whatever, it's that it's, which actually they're both the same thing. They're both about belonging. Right. But instead of you making it about, I guess that's what it is just like, instead of you making about another person or another institution or another entity, you're figuring out where you're guiding your own self1 (36m 21s):And myself and like, yeah, that's just it. Where do I belong? And I don't know yet, but I I'm pretty sure it's not at the am PM. Do you know what I mean? I just don't know that that's going to do it for me.2 (36m 35s):No matter how good those hot dogs are, future, how,1 (36m 41s):How good the deal is, two for one veggie chips. You know what I mean? Like,2 (36m 48s):So then when I went to that amp, it was so like, it, no, it was like1 (36m 55s):Vibration whole. They it's like a club. It's like a club on the weekend.2 (37m 1s):That's what I felt like. I felt like I walked into a club with no music and the lights were really bright.1 (37m 8s):It's crazy. It's put the same vibe. Like, you're like, this is a whole scene here. There's a lot of back and forth.2 (37m 19s):Yeah. About that all the time at gas stations, by the way, because the people who work at gas stations, I think tend to be people who are in transition. And I just observed so much, like, I love the idea that at any place I am visiting in a transitory fashion, there's a whole entrenched, you know, rich, layered history and culture. And that I just don't have any idea about because how could I, it's fascinating to think about,1 (37m 54s):Well, that's why you're a good writer too. It's like you get in there and you can like observe and like create w like it's a whole world. That's there2 (38m 3s):To be curious. Fun to be1 (38m 4s):Curious about. Yeah.2 (38m 17s):Today on the podcast we talked to Amar derisory Amar is originally from Jordan, grew up in Michigan, got his BFA and his MFA, and is a fan of Shakespeare, has some great Shakespeare series that you can check out through his website. And we enjoy talking with him about what his lasting impressions are of attending theater school. So please enjoy. So Amar, congratulations. You survived theater3 (38m 54s):School. Thank you. Yes, I did. You2 (38m 57s):Survived it twice cause you got your BFA in Michigan, right? And then your MFA at DePaul. That's correct. So you must've been very committed to being an actor from high school or earlier.3 (39m 9s):Yes, that is correct. I think high school is where I got the bug. Some teacher encouraged me to be in the school play and I'm like, ah, no, no, no, you have a great personality. You can do a kid. You can do it. I'm like, all right. And as soon as I got on that stage, it was like, right there. It was2 (39m 30s):The feeling that you had.3 (39m 32s):It's it's, it's, it's it's excitement. And you get these, you know, these vibes like, oh my God, I'm doing something. This is fun. It's like an addiction. It really is. It's like anything else? I just, I just went crazy. I started eating the scenery because it was like, I'm enjoying, this could be another role. At one point I wanted to play like 5, 6, 7 roles, you know, because I just said, I want to do everything. It was that much excitement. So that's when I decided to really pursue this,2 (40m 4s):I think to do with, I don't know something about the way you just said that made me think you were set. You were keying into people are listening to me here. Was that something3 (40m 15s):People were looking at me, people were watching me. People were doing that. Yes. There to a certain degree. Yes. But you know, not to the point where I want attention, you know, like, look at me, look at me. But I wanted, I wanted to make people happy, laugh, cry, you know, do something. That was the thing. I think, I think what got me was when people reacted to your performance, people that then it's like, oh my God, I did that. I did that. And that is something that is just, you can't, you can't describe that feeling is, is, it's just, it's like a forest.1 (40m 52s):Something that you said that really sparked a memory of you for me was like that your you are, and look, this is not everyone. We're not a one-sided, but you are a people person. Like I remember that about you. Like, there are some people who just like people, I'm a people person too. But, and I, so I recognize that. And other people where I feel like from seeing you around in school and in plays, like you really had the ability to connect with a wide variety of different kinds of people. Do you know where that came from? If that's true, if you,3 (41m 31s):I identify with that. I, I make friends with people on the street, just I'll just say hi to anybody. You know, I that's just my nature, my personality. I believe if you say hi to someone, you, it just makes them feel better. I think, hi, how you doing? Oh, hi. Oh, kind of surprises them that, you know, I don't have any money to leave me alone. I think some people get, get pretty weird about it. When somebody like myself says hi, where it comes from. I can't tell you. I think it's just, I've always been an outgoing person since I was a kid. I remember my parents telling me that, you know, this kid is going to be something he likes to talk to people.3 (42m 16s):Just, I would just talk to people. Hi,2 (42m 20s):Do you have artists in your family?3 (42m 23s):No, I am the only artist. My brother, my brother's a doctor. My sister is a, is a teacher and an administrator at a school in Abu Dhabi and the Emirates. So I am the only performance.2 (42m 39s):It's always so interesting to think about. Like, of course, going back throughout your family's lineage, you're not the only artist you may have been. The only one who had the opportunity. Like this is the case for me, had the opportunity to pursue it. You know? Cause what I found after I decided that I really wanted to pursue this. It's like, oh, but then my aunt can kind of paint and this one can kind of write a little bit. It just feels like it's not something that they pursued for their, you know, for their regular career. But there it's a privilege, I guess that we, you know, got a chance in school and after to pursue it. And you had some great, you were in some great plays, Romeo and Juliet landscape of the body during the3 (43m 21s):That's right. Oh my God. I still have that picture of me and the golden matress that John Bridges, I'm going to send it to you. I got a whole bunch of pictures of sent to you today. So I was rummaging through the old photo albums and I found a whole bunch of DePaul pictures, but yeah. Yeah, that was, that was an interesting play. I landscape with the body. It was just a, a fun, a fun play, a fun.1 (43m 45s):Now did you, you said that you got the bug early on because the teacher sort of encouraged you then how did that grow into? Because I'm always interested in like, okay, so when you're in a play and I'm sure that, you know, you were magnificent and they, but how did it people loved you and you loved it, but how did that transform into like, I'm going to go to a conservatory because that place was, you know, DePaul, the conservatories are crazy. So how does,3 (44m 13s):Okay, this is a good story. I'm glad you asked this. No, I was, I was doing a play in Flint, Michigan and the lead actress, her and I were backstage and we were just chit chatting before our next it was, I think it was during intermission, but anyway, it doesn't matter. She actually, she goes, well, are you going to go to grad school? Are you going to continue your journey? And I said, I'm not sure. I thought I'd just stick around. Maybe do some theater around here. She goes, no, no, no, you should really go. There's this place called DePaul university. It's a great school. You should go and check it out. I said, really? I said, where's that Chicago? Okay. Well, you know, sure. I go to my, my professors that my undergrad school and they paid for the application fee.3 (44m 56s):I mailed it in. And I think within, I think within a few weeks I got my appointment to audition for the school. And it was in January, in the dead of winter, in Michigan, Nine feet of snow as we're driving to Chicago, I'm my friend and I, but yeah,2 (45m 20s):You applied. It was the only place you applied for grad school.3 (45m 24s):I applied at Purdue university as well. I got accepted at both, both places. The, and it was Purdue or Chicago, DePaul. But I think with Purdue, you're in the middle of nowhere. It's God's country out there. There's just the school. And that's it. Where you had the theater school in Chicago and a vibrant city. It was very infectious and scary at the same time. But that's when I met the infamous John Bridges. I thought I blew it to be totally honest with you. I thought I blew it. I did a, I did a classical and I did a contemporary, obviously Joe Slovak, John Bridges.3 (46m 4s):And I believe Betsy Hamilton where my, my auditioners, if you will. And I thought I did okay with the classical, the contemporary was kind of thing. I got an, I, you know, green to the business, didn't know how to actually present a monologue or, you know, my teachers back and undergraduate say, look, just put them together. Just stop and blah, blah, blah, or just, you know, they, you know, they told me what, what I had to do, but I just remember saying goodbye and thank you for the time. And Joe slow. It was, you know, okay, you got a good job, good job. You know, you have a great journey back home. And I said, okay. And my friend goes, how did it go?3 (46m 46s):And I'm like, ah, forget it. I'm going to Purdue. I'm going to Purdue. And then, and then shoot, I auditioned on a Saturday in January. I get the letter on a Tuesday. And I remember my friend goes, Hey, you got this letter from DePaul. Why don't you open it? I said, oh, it's BS. They're just telling me they're not going to accept me. Look, I'm going to open it. I was about to rip it. And I said, oh, but it just opened it. And I'm like, oh yeah, let me read it to you. You know, I'm going to decline. You have been formally accepted.2 (47m 20s):Oh my God, that's amazing. That's a side note. Do you guys know that in today's day and age, when kids get their acceptance, it's email obviously. And then a lot of schools or maybe even most schools when they open the email, if they got accepted, it's a confetti graphic. So like they know as soon as they open it, if there's confetti, that is so it's so wild, right? Like the things that they could never imagine having to wait in a letter to come in the mail,3 (47m 52s):But2 (47m 52s):You did BFA. So why, why are you saying you kind of were green? You knew about,3 (48m 0s):I mean, I knew about acting it's I, I didn't know the, the, what we call the business affairs of acting the mechanics of acting, I guess I think, you know, we all experienced this. I'm sure guilty is charged. You know, when you're young or you're an actor, you really don't pay attention to a lot of things. You just want to, you know, you want to act, you want to do a performance. You want to do the best you can, of course. But then you also want to party afterwards and do all the things that young people do. And I, and I think I was talking to one of my fellow actors the other day and he asked me if you were to go back to grad school, what would you change? Or what would you, what would have helped you? And I said, have a class that teaches the business of acting and okay, these actors are going into Hollywood.3 (48m 47s):They're going to New York. They're going, whatever, teach them the basics of what the business of acting is. They got to know what a contract looks like. They got to know what business affairs mean. They got to know all this terminology. They got to know all that stuff. If I had known that that would have been a great tool for me coming to LA, coming to LA, I was green as green as a Shamrock, you know, just green. And I had to learn the hard way1 (49m 10s):And we'll get back to the LA part, but I'm not so curious about, okay, so you get into DePaul and then when, and usually being zest this, but I'll ask this, like when you get there, how did it match up to what you were thinking? Were you like, what the hell is going on? Why am I rolling on the floor to music or what?3 (49m 29s):I had no idea what was going on. And that I think scared, you know, on a side note, Chicago scared me. I was homesick for quite a bit of time before school started, I got to, I moved to Chicago, I think three weeks before school started. So there was three weeks where I did not know anybody did not know. I didn't know. Oh, I was in bad shape. And thank God for friends and family. Of course, you know, they call and man, you sound depressed, which is that dude. I'm by myself in Chicago. I don't know anybody. I don't know the city. It's a big city. It's like Flint times 20.3 (50m 9s):It's huge. But, but I think I, to answer your question about the school when the first day of school, wow. What up Betsy Hamilton's class. I'm like buoyancy. And I'm like, what the hell is she doing this buoyancy famously I ever done? And then it clicked it. Then I'm like, okay, I know what she's doing. All right. Okay. Joel, slow acting class. Woo. You can't do that. Okay. You got to do it this way. Okay. This little guy is running around this class and he inspired me.3 (50m 55s):I'm like, this is beautiful. This man in his seventies is running around like his, a guy in his twenties. He loves acting grub. Kowski all that stuff. And he was amazing, but4 (51m 8s):We didn't have him. So he's he was real. Hands-on3 (51m 11s):Like hands-on he was, I mean, I, I won the lottery with Joe slower. N not, not to say anything negative about Jim ocelot or anything like that, but he was just, he was on hands. And he really gave you when he gave you a note, he gave you a note. Okay. You know, he's like Amar, okay. Your legs. I don't know why your feet are doing that on the chair. It's like, it's not, it's not, that's an ism of yours. We gotta, you gotta, yeah. That's kinda like your feet, your feet, your body, your, your, your body is your instrument. And, you know, got to learn all this stuff.3 (51m 52s):And it's just woo. Graduate school. This is graduate school. So, yeah, that was a, a couple of experiences. I'm trying to think.1 (52m 2s):Did you feel like you fit in? Did you, did you, what was your, what was your vibe like there?3 (52m 10s):Unfortunately, my violet started to change in year two. That's when I started to feel, not that things weren't clicking for me or anything like that, but it just seemed like favorites started to appear. Oh, okay. You know, it's like, it happens. It's not something that, you know, it's done intentionally. It just happens. But if I, if you guys remember Eric Hayes, Eric, Michael Hayes,4 (52m 43s):Isabel. I haven't3 (52m 44s):Thought he was in Trojan women. I think he1 (52m 50s):Was like, yes, yes, yes, yes. So3 (52m 52s):He became a seminar. Yeah. Him and I don't know him and I beat we're we're unofficially the outcasts of the graduate class more or less. We weren't, we were not that, not that we were mistreated or anything. I'm not saying that we were mistreated by it just, it just seemed like we were known as the two actors that really didn't take things seriously. And I think that's a fallacy because I think I was taking it very seriously. I was just bored at times. I wanted to act, I didn't want to sit in a classroom all day and just sit. I wanted perform. I think, I think I understand the classroom format where you sit down, you watch your colleagues do their scenes, but I was getting fidgety, fidgeting, bored, bored.3 (53m 39s):And to the point where you dread going to school, it was like, oh, I've got to go to acting class and sit there for two and a half hours. And watch people act, you know, which I get. And again, that didn't sound right coming out. But I mean, it's just, I loved, I loved all my classmates. I loved all my classmates. I think from Derek smart to Eric Hayes, the niece Odom, Heather Ireland to name a few, you know, they, they were fantastic. Pat. Tiedemann Kendra. I mean, and one of my, let me aside. No, one of my favorite, favorite times on DePaul was with you. Gina.3 (54m 19s):Do you remember you? And I started a film. I, I did.2 (54m 23s):Oh, say what3 (54m 27s):You guys remember bill Burnett. The voice in nucleus. Okay. So for our, for my final exam, I wanted to film a short film about quitting smoking. And2 (54m 38s):Coming back to me, wait a minute,3 (54m 40s):You were asking me, I had to, I rented a camera from the video department on the campus and I walked into the lobby of the theater school and you were there and it's like, I need to shoot a scene. It's like, oh, let me be in it. And I said, okay, we'll just improv. We'll just talk about quitting. So we set the camera and you and I sat in the lobby and we filmed it and we did it. I think I still have it. I'll find it for you in 1994.2 (55m 7s):I have to tell you something, because I know you haven't been able to listen to the podcast because our website had a broken link. Okay. But what, what I should tell you is that boss and I have huge memory gaps about our time. There are many things we do not remember.3 (55m 28s):What2 (55m 29s):What's kind of weird is I sort of remembered this film that you really are hearing about it. Yeah. I mean, I believe you, I believe both of you. Okay. How exciting, you know, why I would really love that is because just last week I was saying to boss, wouldn't you like the opera? Because nothing was recorded. Really? Not even our showcase or if it was, it's not something I ever saw. No. Wouldn't you like to go back and just watch yourself? Because now we've spent basically a year and a half fully immersed. We have talked to 55 people about what their theater school experiences.2 (56m 9s):So we, we are getting back on board with what it was and we're slipping, you know, different people fill in like little bit of blanks. But now I like, now I'm just so curious about, you know, what, what, what was the experience of what was I like at that time? And a lot of people don't remember us, so we haven't really gotten this feedback from3 (56m 29s):Yeah. I mean, I remember boss. I remember all you guys. I do remember a lot of, and there's a lot of people I don't remember. I mean, I think when I was on your website the other day, you know, trying to figure out what you're like and it, which is congratulations to the both of you. I think it's awesome. I saw Tate Smith. I saw a picture of Pete Smith and I completely Like that. It was stuff like that. You know, you running into people that wow, amazing. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I interrupted you.1 (56m 59s):No, no, no. I was just going to ask, like, what was your, okay, so, so year two, you started getting itchy and like, but how did you feel? We talk a lot about like casting. How did you feel about your casting in shows? Which most people do? Like, there's been like one person that we've talked to. That was like, I loved my casting, but everyone else is like, I fucking hate it.3 (57m 23s):Nope. I haven't hated it. I hated it. And again, like I said, it happens. I think, I think a lot of the directors, the professors who are directing and all that stuff were just picking their favorites. They're not, if we're going to be in a learning environment, then you, you should take a risk with me, with somebody else with, with Heather. I think nobody was taking any risks. And everyone's like, Hey, I gotta put on a show and it's gotta be the best show I possibly can. And I'm going to use the best actors or that, you know, my opinion, the best actors. And it's like, you know, you know, if you're, you're not preparing us for the real world, you know, if you're going to do this, you know, this blind casting, whatever I thought I thought, Hey, it's a learning. I'm sure. I'm sure one of them, I'm sure Jim Ossoff will cast me.3 (58m 3s):Never did Joe slow cast me, you know, and his journey of the fifth horse. It was a great experience for me. That's when you learn, I didn't want to be the lead role. I want to learn. I want to learn, teach me, teach me what it like to perform on a stage that would typically be a stage from new in New York or a main stage in Chicago. That's where we got to learn. Right? Yeah.2 (58m 29s):That's another thing that we've really uncovered here and it, by the way, it makes perfect sense. I'm really not maligning anybody, but that the professors, you know they, they were also trying to express their own artistic desires through the projects that they were casting. And I'm sure nine times out of 10, they got carried away with their own ego about what they wanted to like, actually, we just heard this story from the episode that's airing today with Stephen Davis.3 (58m 58s):Oh, wow. Yeah.2 (59m 1s):That's a great episode. You listened to it. He re he begged the theater school to do Shakespeare. He begged them to do Romeo and Juliet, which they did. Yep. He, he really wanted to be Romeo. He didn't get cast. And he was told if I had cast you, I would had to gone with my fourth choice for Juliet of the height, because Karen mold is very tall. That's a perfect example of something that should be okay in theater school. I understand you don't want to do it when you're charging $400 a ticket on Broadway.1 (59m 38s):We're in a film where the camera's going to be jacked up, but like, but just cast. And sometimes, and sometimes I would think that, and maybe they do it now. Like sometimes you would say, why not? No. Cause it's obvious when someone wants a rule, right? So whoever wants this rule so badly, for whatever reason, they've never been cast and whatever, give them the role, let them do the role. Like maybe it's, maybe it's not, it's a long shot, but that's what school's about is long shots and learning. Right? It's like, let, let the person do this. You know, they're dying to play Romeo. Just let them play Romeo.1 (1h 0m 19s):Yeah.3 (1h 0m 19s):Yeah. Okay. And excuse me, the, if, if, if you don't mind, you know, now that you guys have you, of course, but I'm just saying the play was set in the middle east.2 (1h 0m 31s):Right. Very3 (1h 0m 32s):Last time I checked I'm Jordanian.2 (1h 0m 35s):Right?3 (1h 0m 36s):The play Romeo Lord Capulet he was Jewish. I'm sorry. He was the Jewish character, but yeah, I get it. I totally get it. I totally get it. And I agree with Steven on this one, because it just seemed like, it seemed like we are in a learning environment and let's learn. And if you're going to, if you're going to just cast people because whatever, then, then what's the point of going to the, to the fricking school and spending, spending $16,000 a year. I don't know what it is today, but1 (1h 1m 10s):It's like 48 or some craziness3 (1h 1m 13s):For paying student loans for three years, three years of, you know, every now and then some BS. Okay. Other than that, you know, the two best teachers that I had over there, arguably as Dr. Bella and Joe slower. And I think because they come from, you know, such interesting backgrounds, you know, Joe slug being Polish, you know, Bella, it can be in a Russian Jewish woman. Oh, I got a lot of stories while her, oh my God.1 (1h 1m 43s):She did she help you? Do you feel like she helped you as a teacher?3 (1h 1m 47s):Oh, she was. She, she, she, I am in her debt, you know, when it comes to acting and stuff like that. I think, I think she finally, I think she was the one that I finally, I realized what it's like to feel the, you know, like with the apple and, you know, I didn't know. It's like the Pandora box thing that she was talking about. And then it just like a light bulb over my head. It's like, oh my God, the feel what it's like to be in winter, you know, even though you're on the stage and it's hot, you gotta like, as if it's 40 below zero, she really, that, that, that, that technique, that acting technique was just incredible.3 (1h 2m 28s):I am forever in her dad and she is awesome. She's an automation rest in peace. And I, a couple of great stories about her is one that when she would like to meet her students before class, so we will walk into her office and talk and I'm sitting there in the office, she's looking at the hair. She goes, okay. Oh yeah, that doesn't sound English. And I said, oh, well, it's, it's Jordanian. I'm from the police. It's Jordanian. She goes, oh, well, you know, I'm Jewish. And I remember talking to my dad, I said, dad, I, I have to talk to this Jewish professor.3 (1h 3m 9s):You just say we're cousins. Okay. Because we are just say that don't rock the boat. Okay. So when she said they're doing, you know, I'm Jewish. And I said, well, well, yeah, I do. I do. But you know, being Jordanian and you being Jewish, you know, we're, we're practically cousins. So, you know, it's great, right. Without a drop of a dime, she goes, well, we might be cousins over, not exactly kissing cousins.2 (1h 3m 38s):Oh, that's hilarious. By the way, in case you don't know, I might have mentioned this on the podcast. Once before there exists on the internet, a Hastick interview with Joseph Loic and Bella it kin, okay. Was it conducted by studs, Terkel? It might've been, or some radio project. And the two of them talking about their approaches to acting and to teaching acting is really, really good. Yeah. You got to check it out. Right. So she really helped me. W we didn't, neither one of us had either one of those teachers, unfortunately, but we love,3 (1h 4m 13s):She, she was great. And I would give her ride home, poor thing. You know, she, you know, her husband, Frank was very ill at the time and she was like, oh, muck. And you're giving me a ride home. And I'm like, yes. Yes. Ma'am. And I was like, oh, you'll cause kind of a mess there. What'd you just get in the car.2 (1h 4m 34s):We know you had a car. That's K that's it wasn't that useful for people in school? Did you, and you messed up, I guess all the MFA's probably lived in apartments or was there any dorm living for MFS?3 (1h 4m 45s):No, no, no. Don't limit for MFA. So we had to live in apartments and my first apartment was a studio. And then I think the second year I moved in with, with Eric, from school and then we had a former student. I don't know if you remember John Soldani by any chance familiar. He was first year grad. And then I think he was cut from the program after the first year, but he came back to Chicago. So we were roomies. And then I met my girlfriend who was also a student at DePaul, Alicia hall. Right. So we, we were together. So we moved in together, I think, mid third year, something like that.3 (1h 5m 29s):I'm not sure, but yeah. And then I stayed in Chicago after graduation. I just decided to stay in Chicago and did get quite a bit of theater in Chicago and then decided to do the LA thing. And,1 (1h 5m 41s):Okay. So, so I just have a question about what was your experience like of the warning system and the cutting system where you weren't?3 (1h 5m 49s):Oh, good question. Good question. Oh, I'm glad you brought that up. I think it's, I think it took the attention away from the program because I think all the students were more concerned about the warning, getting warned and getting caught than anything, and that affected their performance in class and it affected their performance on stage my opinion. I remember some friends of mine who were just scared and I admit I was very, very nervous, but when I didn't get warned, then all of a sudden I was able to concentrate on school. I was like classes where the people that were warned, all they can think about what I can do to not get kicked out of the class.3 (1h 6m 31s):And then next thing you know, it just, it just really, really was detrimental to their performance in my opinion.2 (1h 6m 38s):But it took the focus3 (1h 6m 40s):Away. Oh yeah. Never worn. I was the only, I was the only male that wasn't warrant. All the male actors were warned except for me. And we ended up having eight graduate students, three men and five women, which I mean Derek smart, Eric Hayes and myself, and then the five women, Denise home, Heather Ireland, pat Tiedemann Kendra. I forgot her last name. Thank you. And Alicia, Alicia, Alicia was in the other class. Lisa was in the other, but I remembered you guys remember a teacher named Susan Lee.2 (1h 7m 24s):Her name has come up at times on this podcast. Yes,3 (1h 7m 30s):She was my advisor. She was the one that told me whether I was warned or not, or kicked out or not. And she said the most procurator thing. And I'm not sure if it was from the professors, but she said, well, you're not cut. You're not warned. We just don't know what to do with you. I just looked at her. What do you mean by that? Well, I mean, you're, you're, you know, I don't remember the conversation.1 (1h 7m 55s):Did she say that she raised, she say something about being a, from the middle east or3 (1h 8m 3s):Yeah, something like that. And I said, well, why don't you, why don't you and your professors just ask me and find out what you can do. Right? I mean, just I'm middle Eastern doesn't mean, I don't know how to act girl. You there.1 (1h 8m 23s):Wait a minute. So wait a minute.3 (1h 8m 25s):There's more than one professor that kind of, oh, I'm sure. I'm sure I'm not going to mention any names, but2 (1h 8m 32s):There was quite a few.1 (1h 8m 35s):Yeah. Right? To say that, that, that being from the middle east, my guesses, people were assholes about it. Like right. Like racist, racist, assholes.3 (1h 8m 50s):I mean, and that's what was going to be NASA, regardless of what race you are. So, you know, you're going to be an asshole. You're going to be an asshole. If you are a mean person, you are a mean person. It has nothing to do with your gender, your culture, where you come from, you're you, if you're a mean person, you're a mean person having said that there was quite a few people that said some things to me while I was in school, which was very offensive. But what do you want me to do? Fight every person. That's some kind of, you know, I was called many things. I was called camel jockey. I was called by students. Oh, somebody students. Yeah. Mostly by students. You know, I was called no, no, no. It's okay.3 (1h 9m 31s):Hey, that's you know, you, you grow from it. There was, there was one person that called me a word. I don't think I can say it on this podcast, but it's a, it's like, whoa.2 (1h 9m 42s):Well, well, we've heard so much about from every alum of color that we've talked to, is this thing that you're describing of maybe they even got selected for the program with the idea, oh, you know, we don't have anybody who looks like this in our program, but then it became, we can,1 (1h 10m 2s):We don't have any money.2 (1h 10m 3s):We can only find a role for that person. If it's clearly identified in the text that that person is that ethnicity. Meanwhile, all the white actors could be up for any role. Right. That, that was sort of the default. Like if you're white, then you can play anything. But if you're not white, then you, then you have to play a role that's written for whatever your ethnicity is.3 (1h 10m 27s):I agree with that. And yeah. And I think, I think Christina dare kind of broke the window on that with Romeo and Juliet, by casting Leonard Roberts as Romeo, you know, an African-American man. And he was great in the role. He was great. Absolutely. You know, she passed me as, you know, as a Jewish man, you know, even though I'm there, I like that. I I'm playing against type. This is, these are the rules that I would like to be challenged with. And unfortunately I wasn't challenged with over there. And I think the school to your saying, Gina, I think the school was just kinda like, eh, let's just bring this middle Eastern guy. See what happens. Let's get this African-American person. Let's see what happens. Let's get this Indian person. Let's see what happens. And nothing happened, nothing happened.3 (1h 11m 8s):And, and by the third year, by the third year, I was just, I was done. I was done. After, after Shakespeare, Susan Lee, I was done. I was done. She, she was a hard teacher. She was a hard teacher to deal with both academically. And you know, personally it's just, just was hard. It was hard to deal with her. I'm not, I know Bobby, some students have some harsher words for her, but again, I was going back to what I said earlier, Eric and I were pretty much marked by her that we were not serious about Shakespeare.3 (1h 11m 48s):And I was very serious about it. I just wanted, I remember students coming up to me, they tried to avoid being partners with us. And then I had one partner telling me, Hey, you better not fool around or do this. You know, you gotta be serious. I said, what the hell is wrong with you? And then when they find out the real me, and then it's like, wow, that's totally different than what I'm hearing about you. And I'm like,2 (1h 12m 11s):Yeah, this is serious. Is my lasting impression of you. I would never have said that you were anything but very serious.3 (1h 12m 21s):I appreciate that. I really do. I appreciate that. I

Paul is joined by Pat Dooley to talk some CFB as well as Arkansas basketball players Amber Ramirez & Davonte Davis as we gear up for the CBB season.

The 2021 season is over and on this episode we will look back at everything Cleveland Indians hitting. We'll brag and boast about the stars in the lineup, Ramirez, Rosario, Straw, and Reyes. Then we'll look at some of those areas of struggle like catcher, the young 2nd basemen, and corner outfield. Plus, my thoughts on the World Series match up and how managers are burning through their pitching in these playoffs. There is a ton to talk about in this XL sized episode, so let's talk everything hitting I can fit into a podcast. If you want to share your thoughts on the game or anything Cleveland baseball you can find me on Twitter @daveyberris, you can email the show ClevelandBaseballMornings@gmail.com, or leave a message on the anchor app and we'll play it back on the show. Merchandise is now available at https://clevelandbaseballmornings.myspreadshop.com/ for T-shirts, Hoodies, Coffee Mugs, and More!!! Now available on iHeart Radio: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-cleveland-baseball-morning-70571254/ Now available on Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/17e3d70a-dd9e-4ed3-a6fc-2ef5d6f58bb8/Cleveland-Baseball-Mornings-An-Indians-Fan-Podcast --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/clevelandbaseballmornings/message

Patreon Supporter Ed Ramirez joins this week. Jim gives a personal health update after a wild ride over the last couple of weeks. We revisit the idea of downsizing our technology footprints and doing more with less. We wrap the show with Mike giving a demo of Cryptohopper and how he is trading his Crypto. All that and more! Full show notes, transcriptions (available on request), audio and video at http://theAverageGuy.tv/hgg509 Join Jim Collison / @jcollison and Mike Wieger / @WiegerTech for show #509 of Home Gadget Geeks brought to you by the Average Guy Network. WANT TO SUBSCRIBE? http://theAverageGuy.tv/subscribe

En este episodio especial hablamos sobre el evento culinario Taste Food Fest.Tuvimos la oportunidad de conversar a la productora del evento, Andrea Ramírez, la cual nos contó sobre como surge la idea, los objetivos del evento para apoyar la industria, los detalles de lo que estará sucediendo durante el evento y la responsabilidad social atada a la plataforma.Acompáñanos en este evento culinario del 4 al 7 de noviembre de 2021 en Plaza Las Américas y disfruta de lo mejor de la gastronomía local.Para más detalles del Evento puede visitar sus redes sociales como @tastefoodfestpr

Mike Ramirez aka Deejaymike91 (@MichaelRamirezPhoto) brought his entourage to the backyard to discuss deejaying during the pandemic and what it's like being the tallest photographer in the North End.

Max Blumenthal and Garrett Ramirez of NYC Teachers for Choice join Redspin Sports host & Jersey City public school teacher, Nate Wallace, to discuss the effects of mass layoffs of workers in NYC and beyond, and the increasingly hysterical discourse in response to news that Brooklyn Nets superstar Kyrie Irving will not be allowed to play this NBA season. Regardless of your thoughts on mandates, it's important to honestly assess what all this means for the working class in this country, and the future of people's struggles in an era when profound schisms within the working class on the issue of mandates and mass layoffs are starting to reveal themselves in a big way.@RedspinSports on Twitter@Nate6Wallace on Twitter @TheGrayzoneNews on Twitter @MaxBlumenthal on Twitter Garrett Ramirez on Twitter: @LeftVLockdown If you enjoy Redspin Sports, please consider supporting our work on Patreon so we can produce more of it. The editing, equipment, podcast hosting, and other costs are the biggest barriers in the way of being able to churn out more content on a consistent basis.https://www.patreon.com/redspinsports

Lenin Ramirez nos platica de sus Premios y Exitos bien merecidos. PURO PA'DELANTE, un podcast y videopodcast que por primera vez dará acceso exclusivo a la mente creativa de uno de los ejecutivos más importantes del género regional mexicano. Ángel del Villar, en esta ocasión se une a una de las presentadoras más consolidadas del entretenimiento hispano en los Estados Unidos, Rubí Molina, para conversar sin censura con las figuras más relevantes de la industria Latina, quienes expresarán su puntos de vista sobre diferentes temas en tendencia cada jueves. DEL Records, por 10 años ha sido una empresa líder e innovadora, apostándole al mundo digital desde antes que se convirtiera en un estilo de vida, se posiciona como la empresa independiente con mayor alcance en el mundo digital y se enorgullece en abrir dicho medio para el entretenimiento hispano y ser un medio para el mundo digital

More than half of Americans are under the age of 40, and according to Cristina Tzintzún Ramirez, President and Executive Director of NextGen America, they are facing three crises simultaneously — a climate catastrophe, a democracy in decline, and grotesque income inequality. Cristina is a progressive labor organizer and former 2020 U.S. Senate candidate who truly understands the complexity of the youth vote, especially in her home state of Texas, and particularly within the Latino community. She joins Amanda this week to pull apart the Democrats' mistaken assumption that young voters are all college kids; discuss why campaigns clinging to the ‘young people don't vote' myth after impressive turnout in 2020 do so at their own peril; and, as always, they tackle money in politics. Plus, breaking up Facebook: it's time. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.