Podcasts about stompernet

Join us as we welcome internet marketing titan, Perry Belcher, to the AM/PM Podcast! Listen in as we journey through Perry's remarkable career path - from humble beginnings before turning to digital marketing. Perry's illustrious career even saw him get a personal call from none other than Jeff Bezos himself, a short story you don't want to miss!   The conversation continues with Perry reflecting on the rise and fall of his business and partnerships. His journey, marked by selling health supplements to launching a digital marketing business, and finally starting the Driven Mastermind and the War Room, is an insightful one for any entrepreneur. Our chat also covers the importance of joining a mastermind group, the benefits it can bring, and how it can help you gain a broad perspective of different industries.   Lastly, Perry shares fascinating insights about the role of AI in business, specifically in copywriting. From reducing labor costs to crafting compelling headlines and stories, the potential applications of AI are far-reaching. He also discusses misconceptions people have about AI and the opportunities it presents. Tune in for a riveting discussion about the intersection of AI, E-commerce, and internet marketing. In episode 365 of the AM/PM Podcast, Kevin and Perry discuss: 09:22 - Success in Real Estate and Selling 16:45 - Running Successful Events 23:30 - The Value of Networking and Collaboration 29:55 - Selling Event Recordings for Profit 34:19 - Cash Prize Incentives for Speakers 39:00 - Leveraging Email Lists for Business Success 42:06 - Artificial Intelligence And Its Impact On Internet Marketing 53:21 - Other Mindblowing AI Capabilities 57:27 - AI's Role in Various Industries 1:07:38 - Follow Perry on Facebook for Updates 1:09:46 - Kevin's Words Of Wisdom Kevin King: Welcome to episode 365 of the AEM PM podcast. My guest this week is none other than the famous Perry Belcher. If you don't know who Perry is, perry is one of the top internet marketers, probably one of the top copywriters in the world today. He's got his hands in all kinds of stuff, from newsletters to AI, to print on demand to funnels, to you name it. In marketing, Perry's either got tremendous amount of experience in it or he's heavily involved in it right now. We talked some shop today and just go kind of all over the place on some really cool, interesting topics. I think you're getting a lot from this episode, so I hope you enjoy it. And don't forget, if you haven't yet, be sure to sign up for the Billion Dollar Sellers Newsletter. It's at billiondollarsellerswithaness.com. It's totally free. New issue every Monday and Thursday. It's getting rave reviews from people in the industry and some of the top people in the industry as well as people just getting started. So it's got a little bit different take on it and just a lot of information. Plus, we have a little bit of fun as well in the newsletter. So hopefully you can join us at billiondollarsellers.com. Enjoy today's episode with Perry. Perry Belcher, welcome to the AM/PM Podcast. It's an honor to have you on here. How's?   Perry: it going, man, Dr King, esquire at all. I'm doing great, buddy, I'm doing great. I'm just trying to survive this hot, hot, hot summer that we're all having, you know.   Kevin King: Well, you're out there in Vegas. Y'all had floods, right. I was seeing some stuff on TikTok, like some of the casino garages and stuff were flooding.   Perry: Yeah, there were some floods out here, so it's been. We got like years worth of rain in two days or something like that, they said, which we could stand. It didn't hurt. But the hot weather out here is just the way that it is. You get used to it after a little while.   Kevin King: Yeah, it's the same in Austin. It's like 108, I think today, and I know you know, football season just recently started and everybody's complaining that they're doing a game. One of the first games was in the middle of the afternoon, like 2.30 in the afternoon and like man, half these people are going to be dying out there, you better have some extra medical. You know supposed to do these things at night in Texas during September.   Perry: My kid did in the middle of the day and he had some days that they were kids passing out, you know. So I don't miss the heat in Austin. I'll take the heat in Vegas instead. It's different kind of heat to me.   Kevin King: Yeah, it's not. It's more of a dry heat, not that, not that human heat that we have here. I'll take it so for those. There's some probably some people listening that don't know. They're like who's this? Perry Belcher character? I never heard of this Perry Belcher guy and if you haven't, you've probably been living on a rock in internet marketing, because Perry Belcher is one of the living legends out there and when it comes to internet marketing, it's not just he dabbles on Amazon, but it's Amazon's just a little piece of what he does. He does a ton of other stuff. So, and you've been doing this since you're like, you've been an entrepreneur since you're like I don't know, three years old. I heard you selling hot dogs. I mean, you've pretty much done, everything from run from selling hot dogs to running, I don't know jewelry, pear shops or something, to having little kiosk in the mall, to crazy kind of stuff. I mean, just for those that don't know who the heck you are, just give a little bit about your background.   Perry: Sure, I'm world famous in Kazakhstan. I started out, you know, I grew up really poor in little town in Kentucky, paducah. It's a sound of dead body makes when it hits the floor. And I'll as soon as I could. I stayed there until I could drive. I could drive a car. I got the heck out of there and went to the big city, nashville, you know, and I got into, you know, early on I got into retail and I owned 42 jewelry stores. At one time when I was really, really young, before I was old enough to buy beer, I owned 42 jewelry stores. Isn't that crazy? That's crazy. Not that I didn't buy beer, but as long as I was legally buying beer Exactly. You know. So I was in retail. I went out of, you know, eventually I made three different runs and retailed it, Okay, and then I got into manufacturing. I found I really enjoyed manufacturing Great deal. I still do a lot of manufacturing, as you know and then along, I guess about 1997, for those young whippersnappers that were born about then that are on in your Amazon crowd right In 1997, they invented this thing called the interwebs and Jeff Bezos started a store called Amazon and I sort of got. I sort of got all caught up in the web thing. And you probably don't know this story. It was a true story, Kevin. I got a call from Jeff Bezos when I owned craftstorecom, so this was in probably 1998 or 1999. I got a personal call from Jeff Bezos wanting to talk to me about buying craftstorecom and rolling it into the Amazon family. And then they were only selling books, they were bleeding I don't even know $100 million, a quarter, or some crazy number. And I'm like dude, you're, I'm reading about you, you're losing money, I'm making money. You know, I think you got this reversed. I probably should buy you. I swear to God, I said that. Yeah yeah, I said that that was about best I can figure about a $750 million mistake.   Kevin King: Well, it's funny you say that, because I mean we go back, we're old school when it comes to way, before you know all this internet marketing craze. We were doing old school marketing, you know, by by putting a postage stamp on an envelope and sending it out. And I remember I have a couple of similar stories back around that same time, early late 90s, early 2000s. The guy at MySpace had just started somewhere around in there and those guys reached out to me. I had a newsletter, an online newsletter going at the time, and they reached out to me to do something and I turned. I just ignored them. I was like what's this MySpace thing? I never heard of it.   Perry: I did the same thing with Jim Barksdale. You know who that was. Yeah, yeah, barksdale wanted to buy one of my companies and I blew them off, and he was Netscape you know they also used to do back you might remember this back.   Kevin King: I had several different websites and to get traffic back before there was Google and all these. You know, this SEO and all this stuff is basically as Alta Vista and you know, I love that, I love that Yahoo and all these guys and you could just just by putting stuff in the meta tags, you'd rank, you know on top of the crap out of yeah. You put a text down at the bottom and all the good, all the good, all the good all the good, all that kind of stuff. But I one of the things, what you might remember this there is what's called ring sites. So in order to get traffic, you go to some guy would figure out how to get people to his site and then it would be like next or previous, and you'd hit a button and it would go to the next, previous, and then we had a newsletter that was doing about 250,000 emails a day back before can spam and all that stuff and to get traffic to it. You know, we were getting on Howard Stern Show when he was on terrestrial radio and we were doing all kinds of crazy stuff. But I was working with a site called BOMAS B-O-M-I-S and they had one of these ring sites and we they were like one of our top sources of traffic and I just remember there's two guys there running out of their apartment or something. I talked to one of them. This is like probably around 2000 or so, ish, 2001. He said, hey, you're going to be dealing with me from now on. My buddy is moving on. I'm like all right. I said James is moving on. I said, ok, cool, what's he going to do? He said I don't know, some sort of encyclopedia or something. I'm not sure what he's going to do. He's got some some crazy idea. Turns out it was Jimmy Wells from Wikipedia. I was actually working with Jimmy Wells from Wikipedia before he was Jimmy Wells from Wikipedia. Isn't that crazy? It's crazy, I mean the stories that we can tell from the early days of the Internet.   Perry: When I look back, I just can't. You know my buddy's favorite saying, and I've adopted this I can't believe how stupid I was two weeks ago.   You know like you. Just you just realize you know just the boneheaded stuff that you did when there was so much opportunity. The first domain I ever bought this was like just when domain registrations came out I bought formulas, the number four you oh wow com, the most worthless domain anyone could ever own, when I could have probably bought internet.com Pretend to buy anything and I bought the most boneheaded stuff. You know.   Kevin King: Well, you remember the guy that he got in early he bought was at sex.com or something for, like you know, 10 bucks or whatever it cost to register it back then before there was a go daddy, yeah, and remember the fight like 20 years ago over that domain because it became like the most valuable domain on the entire Internet or something. Remember that huge fight about that.   Perry: It was. It was crazy, but I know there's been a bunch of those stories. Man, I've got some friends that really did well buying domain real estate early on. I bought a lot. I mean I've, over time, I still think domains are a bargain. I really do Most. For the most part, I own stuff like sewing.com and makeuptutorials.com and diyprojects.com. I still own some big stuff that we operate and I own a bunch of other big stuff that we don't operate and you know I'm buying after markets.   Now I bought conventions.com for a little over $400,000 two weeks before COVID Boy. That timing was extraordinary. You know what could go wrong. Conventions are impervious to depression and so anyway, yeah, so I started buying. You know I got a manufacturing and I immediately saw the benefit of online selling because you could cut out all the different layers of middlemen in the in between the consumer and the manufacturer. So I've been a manufacturer selling direct to consumer for a long time. And then I got. I got in business with Ryan Dice. After I got in a lot of trouble, almost went to jail in the supplement business scares me to death to this day. You know I lost everything I had, almost went to the clink, and when that all got settled out I went to business with Ryan Dice and we he turned me on really to the information selling world.   Kevin King: How'd you guys meet up? Was it at some events, or did you just meet up? Yeah, we met up.   Perry: Yeah, I'll tell you, the story is pretty funny story. So we met at a Yonix Silver event. We went to dinner with, you know, all these millionaires, you know in the room, the millionaire mastermind people, and we went to this big dinner and we had like 20 people at the dinner and when the check came it was like, well, I only had a salad, well, I only had the soup, and you know they're all dividing up checks and crap. And I'm like, come on and Ryan looked at me and I looked at him. He said do you just want to pay this bill and get the hell out of here? And I said, yeah, so we split the bill. And that's how we became friends, how we met. And then, you know, when I we knew each other through Yonix and then when I got in trouble in the supplement business, I mean, I had loads of friends when you're, when you're now and when you're when you're netting out half million dollars a month and you're flying all your friends on private jets, the Thomas and crap on the weekends, boy, you got lots of friends, you know. And as soon as the money ran out, well, guess what? The friends ran out. You know, you know everything was, you know. Nobody knew who I was. Then, you know, and Ryan called me and said hey, man, I got this business in Austin. It's doing a couple million dollars a year. If you'll come help me run it, I'll give you half of it. Oh, wow, and we did $9 million in the first seven months.   Kevin King: And that was a digital marketer. For those of you that don't know, that's correct.   Perry: Yeah, it was called touch tone publishing then, but eventually we rebranded it became digital marketer and then out of digital marketer came traffic and conversion summit and out of traffic and conversion summit came the war room mastermind and we ran all three of those for years. And digital we sold a TNC to a Claire and Blackstone Blackstone group about four years ago, I guess. Then I sold my interest in digital marketer to Ryan and Ryan, roland, richard about two years ago and then we dissolved war room about a year ago I guess they were going a different direction and and Kossim Islam and Jason Flylon I started driven mastermind so but yeah, it was a great, great run with. Those guys are super good, guys are super, super smart and we were business partners for 14 years long time. It's a long. That's a you know outlast a long time.   Kevin King: That's a long time in this business longer than all my marriages, almost divine, you know. So going just down. We'll talk about some of those in just a second, but just down that back what? What got you in trouble in the supplement business was it claims that you just didn't realize you couldn't be. Yeah, what was the it?   Perry: was kind of a combination. I was. I was legitimately a pharmaceutical manufacturer. We were an FDA pharmaceutical manufacturer. I got all the licensure and all that I got in trouble with the state had nothing to do with the federal. They called in federal, they called in DA, they called in everybody, like guys. Everything he's doing is correct. But the state took issue to some claims and what ended up happening? They realized that they had not. The thing is, once the state gets their tentacles into you and have your money, you know it's really hard to get rid of them, right? They're like a tick. But. But at the end of the day, the only thing that that that they actually that stuck was something called ways and measures. So that meant that my equipment wasn't precise enough to put the exact amount of product per bottle. So let's say it says it's two ounces right, mine might be 2.1 or 1.9 ounces right, and that's there's. There are state laws about that. They're called ways and measures laws. They're governed by the people who manage gas pumps, if you could believe it. But out of everything that they originally said that I was doing, they dropped everything else and that was the only thing that actually, at the end of the day, was it? But I had to settle it and they got all my money and all my stuff and left me three million dollars in debt. And when, when I went to Austin and we hustled hard, you know, for a couple of years, and I paid all that off, I didn't file bankruptcy on it and it was hilarious because I threw a Perry's broke party. Yeah, about two years in, when I got to zero, I got back to just broke. I wasn't three million dollars, right. I threw a giant Perry's broke party as maybe one of the most fun parties we've ever had. It was a little you're in.   Kevin King: Austin's, you do that out at Willie Nelson's ranch. Because, I was tapes, remember he did that when he got in trouble for seven million bucks and he did some sort of big ass fundraising party out. He has this like old ranch out West of Texas, west of Austin that's. It's got a studio lot on it, basically an old.   Perry: House. Then I just had it right over the house and we had a big pool party and, oh my Lord, so many drunk people. It was a lot of fun, it was good time, so I got a lot of friends at Austin and you'll talk digital marketer.   Kevin King: the conference from like. I think the first one's a few hundred people to what the? Now it's five, six thousand people, or yeah, we get the biggest internet for if you're an internet marketing, yeah, just in in general, it's not just Amazon, it's like across the board, it's the biggest one out there, I think.   Perry: Yeah, before the year before COVID, I think we had the biggest year was seventy two hundred. Oh wow, seventy two hundred, seventy eight hundred, I can't remember. They thought we were going to ten thousand the next year and they rented the Coliseum in San Diego instead of the hotels. And then, of course, covid yeah, and it was just a you know, two or three years we had sold just prior to that. So have we not have sold that first year of COVID? I think was probably around a five million dollar loss, but they had clear and had insurance for it, fortunately. So I don't think they. I don't. I don't know the exact damage, but I know it would have probably wiped us out and we've been because we had a refund. Tickets with In the venue would not have soft to hook and I was a big bunch of crap when it comes to running conferences.   Kevin King: I mean, I do my billion dollar solar summit. You do your events now, like you do. You've done the couple AI summits, you've done the Perry's weird event or whatever. You do quite a different things. You have the Whatever, whatever, whatever. You done like three of those which are fascinating. You do, you know, you have the driven mastermind and you're involved with digital market and our space. There's a ton of people it's almost gotten through Events for Amazon sellers, like everybody. Everybody in their dog wants to have an event and the vast majority of them suck. There's like seven people there they can't sell tickets that are losing their shirt. Very few of them actually make money. What is the key actually, if you want to do an event or you're thinking about that to actually making these things work, is it the long term play you gotta have? The upsell is at the.   Perry: Well, events, events are very, very much an uphill battle. That's the reason. When you go to sell one, they have a lot of value. If you go to, if you build an event to a thousand, two thousand people, it has a lot of value in the exit market because once an event hits a certain inflection point, they're insanely profitable. So you're so, like digital market, we lost money On TNC for probably the first four years that we did it. But the way we made up for it, we filmed all of the sessions and we sold them as individual products. So we built all of our. We had a thing that really made that thing magical, because every session had to be good enough to sell as a product. So it made the event itself, you know, great because you had to have executable do this, do this, do this, do this. It couldn't just be a fluffy talk, right. Every talk had to be good enough to sell as a product when Ryan and I were doing them. So for the first three or four years we didn't make hardly any money, but we generated a lot of product out of that. We sold throughout the year. So we, you know, we did make money a couple million dollars a year From the product sales and then over time, as the attendance goes up, the ticket prices tend to go up. You start at really low ticket prices and you ratchet ticket prices up as the event gets bigger and bigger, bigger, and you start taking on sponsors and we basically got to the point by the time that we sold. You don't really want to sell right, because the sponsors were paying for 80 90% of the cost to put on the event. Tickets were you then over a thousand dollars a ticket? We were selling 7000 tickets. You didn't really need to sell, you know, because you the event was paid for by the sponsors. The ticket sales money was just free money. And then whatever you do at the event, you know in sales is even more free money. But when you look at companies like Clary on the by these things, they don't care about the product creation, they don't care about selling at the event, they only care about tickets and they make a lot of money on hotel rooms. So they so in when, when they're promoting they got a lot of cash, so they'll buy all the hotel rooms in downtown San Diego a year before we, right before we, now we announced the dates, they buy all the rooms and then when you're buying your room from bookingcom or American Express or whatever, you're actually buying that ticket from Clary on, because Clary on in a lot of cases bought all the rooms in the city for $120 a night and then a year later you're paying 350 on AmEx and they just pay AmEx a commission, a 20% commission.   Kevin King: That's different than the way when I do like for a billion dollar so much in order to not have to pay you know, $3,000 to turn the Internet on in the ballroom, or to have to per day, or from not having to pay for the ballrooms or this or that. We have to do guarantees. Rather than buying the rooms up front, we have to guarantee that we're going to put 50 butts in the in these beds or whatever. If we don't, we get penalized, you know, yeah, right.   Perry: We did a little bit different model. Yeah, we did, we did too. You still have room blocks, you know, and the killer and the killer in the convention businesses contract negotiation and room blocks. You know, if you can get room blocks down, we did one recently at the ARIA and I didn't have a room block anywhere because the ARIA surrounded by like eight hotels within walking distance, so there's no reason to book a room block. Everybody could stay where they wanted within that complex and the room blocks Everybody could stay where they wanted within that complex. And then we got together and it didn't. It didn't create the problem, but you know they get you. Would they charge you more for F&B? So they, they're going to get you right. So I've got my own event center now I've got a 50 person event center. I think we're going to expand to 100 people and and I really prefer having smaller workshops anyway, they're they're more intimate, they're more effective and if you're going to sell something else to the attendees, the smaller the room, the higher your conversion rates will always be if you're offering something to the attendees.   Kevin King: That's true, yeah, so then you took it from there to the mastermind you did the war room for a long time and I know my buddies, Manny  and Guillermo, at Helium 10. They joined the war room about two years into working on helium 10. They said that was the number one life changing thing that they did.   Perry: They killed it to that.   Kevin King: I don't know the numbers, but I know it's. I see what he's spending and what he's doing, so I'm like it's some serious numbers. But they they attribute that to war room, because there was some. Y'all did one event and I think it was in Austin, actually around 2018 ish, and it was all about system. Whatever the talk was on that one, because they're quarterly, they were quarterly deals. I think it was all about systemizing and getting out your way and like cutting all the riffraff. I don't, but they said that was. It was game changing for them and made them tens of millions of dollars. So, but to join a war room was what 30 grand, I know driven was what you have now which I've been driven 30 grand.   Perry: Yeah, I've been to.   Kevin King: I've been to driven. I went to the one back in July which was excellent out in LA and and I love going to these. Those of you are listening. You know this is not an Amazon conference. A lot of us go to Amazon conferences, but I think the best conferences for me are actually the non Amazon conferences, because I go into something like a driven where there's yeah, there's a handful of Amazon people there, but there's also a bunch of Facebook people. There's also a bunch of domain people, there's SEO people, there's people that you know just have some sort of a shop in Baltimore that you know do internet marketing and you, you meet this range of people and for me it's brainstorming sessions. I'm uninterrupted. You know if I'm watching stuff online, even the recording of that, you know I got phone calls coming in, the dogs barking. You know wife's nagging, whatever it may be. You're interrupted. But you're sitting in a room from nine to five, obviously not in the room. You're sitting in a room From nine to five listening to people, these people talking a lot of it. You might already know, some of it may be new to you, but you're just in there. One guy says something, perry says something, and then Kazim says something, and then Jason says something, and whoever else the speaker says something, you start going. If I put all these things together and I can do this for my business, holy shit, this is freaking incredible. And so that's. These people look at me. And why the heck would I pay 25 or 30 grand to be in some sort of event? And if in the Amazon space, I personally wouldn't, because I'm going to be the one delivering most of the value in a lot of cases. And so why would I pay to join something? They should be paying me to come to it. But when you go to something where it's a cross section of people in the marketing world that all think like you but they do different things, I think that's the most valuable thing, would you? Would you agree?   Perry: I think honestly, I think in a good mastermind and that there's that good being in parenthesis and a good mastermind. I don't think you can lose money. I think it's almost impossible. I've made money in every mastermind I've ever been in you just, I like the idea of the diversity, right. I might learn something from a guy in the funeral industry that can be applied to somebody that's selling weight loss, right. You never know. And you know my benefit. I guess I've been around a long time, like you, kevin, I've been around the block a bunch and I've been fortunate enough to work with like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of businesses Pretty intimately in the, in the, the war room and now driven setting, and you know I get to see what's working and what's not working from like a 10,000 foot view inside all these businesses. So for me personally it's a great benefit that I get to learn something from really diverse. You know I learned the other day I was talking to a friend of mine, a client, that that they're in the, they sell online, that you book an appointment, you know they call you in, whatever, and they're in an industry that I have no interest in, no knowledge of, right. But they figured out that if they once somebody's booked an appointment, if they put a zoom, a live zoom, on the thank you page with somebody sitting there going hey, kevin, so glad you booked your appointment. By the way, jimmy can take you right now if you want, right. That one thing those, those people are coming in that way, or converting nine times higher than the people who book a normal sales call. And the beautiful thing now is.   Kevin King: You can do that with AI. There's tools with AI where you could actually, when they fill in that form I'm registered, I'm Kevin air dot AI and all that yeah, several and one that you could actually and you could put in you upload a spreadsheet or tie it into. You know, through an API to your, your cell system, that Jenny is available and it can actually, as I'm typing in, kevin King it's in the background recording a video with with Perry saying hey, hi, kevin, this is Perry. I glad you just signed up. Jenny's available right now. It's all automated and all like holy cow how to help her is just sitting around it and you know the conversions on that go through the roof.   Perry: Oh, they're nutty and but that's something I learned from a person who's in the like the the trauma they. They serve trauma psychiatrists, that's their market and I'm like I would never know that in a million years. Right, but but how many other businesses or clients of mine could that one tactic be applicable to? The answers? A lot, right, so you. So, when you go into those rooms where you know to be in driven, you got to be doing at least a million a year, but I think our average is around seven million a year gross and, and some you know up to, you know there's there's some hundred million dollar Folks and big players in there. There's some big players there, but you but nobody's stupid, right? You're in a room full of really, really smart people when they're basically telling you what they're doing. I joke about. I get paid for people to tell me. I get paid for really smart people to tell me what they're doing. That's really working and what I right, what a great gig I got right. But, yeah, we've been doing it for a really long time there. Those groups masterminds are hard to keep together and Keep happy and all that there because they are, because they're intimate, people share a lot of details and sometimes you have personality, kind of little things. This is crazy nutty stuff. That happens that you, the only problem with those things are just, they're a, they're a bit to, they're a bit to manage and you know that, as far as the 30 grand goes, or 50 grand, or 70. I know a lot of people charge. I know a buddy mine charge is 70,000 a year. You know we act like that's a lot of money but everybody's got an idiot on their payroll that there's a more than 30 grand to, I promise you. Everybody does. Everybody has a dodo on their payroll that they should have fired a long time ago but he brings the doughnuts or something and you don't farm that. Would you rather have that dodo licking stamps four hours a day or would you rather, you know, have access to some of the smartest people and your peers and you know really Really that? Keep you accountable, keep you on your toes and keep you up to date, because we do a call every week along with the meeting. So I I'm not pitching it down, I don't. This is sound like I'm hey, go buy my thing, but no matter what the industry you're in, get into a mastermind group. If you can, it'll one that you can afford.   Kevin King: You know ours is out of reach for most people because they're they're not because it's they can afford it, because they just don't meet the minimum sales, like you said, like you know, if you're at a one million and you said the average is around seven, you know, for 30 grand a year, all you need is one, one little idea, one thing, just you, just the ROI could be immense on just one thing.   Perry: I've heard a hundred times and I got all my value for the year within the first two hours. The first meeting yeah, you know, I've heard that so many times because this Kevin King gets up and talks and says something really smart and you go. Well, that was worth it, right, I got. I learned a thing that I didn't know and and, like you said, when you're doing, the beauty is the reason we don't take people that aren't doing a lot of money yet. It's hard to ROI. But if you're already doing let's say you're doing seven million a year and you get an idea that gives you a 5% bump, right, let's 350 grand, yeah for an idea. And you, you know, you're in for a year. You're in for 52 calls and four live meetings and Intensives and networks and private calls and all kinds of stuff. It's you know and I'm not saying for us, just for any man mind if you get a good mastermind, you can't lose money if you, if you have a good enough business already that you can ROI.   Kevin King: One of the things that you do that's really cool too is, like you said. You know, with digital market and I agree that you know you're recording it, turning it into content you do that now. Well, you'll do a Like that, the weird event you you straight up say, hey, come out to this thing. Yeah, it's gonna be a hundred of you here, but I'm recording this. I'm gonna turn this into a product. Yeah, you turn it into six products. You know, and I didn't with my billion dollar seller summit. I didn't used to record those, but now that's half the prop. That's where the actual the profit is. It's actually in recording it and then selling it to the people that didn't come. But one of the cool things that you do, like it driven and some of your other events your AI event you did this. I think you do it. Probably pretty much everyone I've ever been to is at the end you say get the kick the cameras out of the room, turn everything off. Let's grab a bottle of wine. You sit up with the stage. You might bring a couple other your partners or the couple other speakers and it's just two hours, three hours. They're just shooting the shit of Q&A and, yeah, stuff that comes out of that Alone pays for the entire event.   Perry: Yeah, the unplugged we've we've been doing unplugged forever because at the end of most events, you know, you still have unanswered questions and I don't want people to have unanswered questions. But also some people just don't want to talk about, they don't feel comfortable talking about the particulars of their business on camera. Yeah, so you know, if they because you know, sometimes a lot of my students are also Gurus, right, and you know how gurus are they don't want to tell you that. Well, they don't want to tell you that they're having a hard time making the lease payment on Because they're pretty ill, hurt their image, right, I talk about all of my screw ups and Almost going to jail and going broke and all it, because you know it's real, that's the real of people. But but a lot of the guru guy, well, I can't say that because it was just destroying my image. So I like doing unplugged sessions a lot of times because they people feel a little more comfortable talking about their challenges and Without feeling like it changes their position. And I think sometimes, just, you know, people don't want to ask their question on a microphone in front of a thousand people for fear of embarrassment. And what if my questions? A dumb question. So when you're just sitting down Slugging back a beer and you know chatting they feel more comfortable asking the questions. They probably should be asking it we I've done that as a policy for a really long time. We do wicked smart and we do unplugged, and those are the two. You know we always ask for the best idea in the room, and that that was a funny story.   Wicked smart was invented the first year that Ryan and I did Traffin conversion summit. We programmed three days worth of content for a three-day event and At 11 o'clock on the third day we were out. We'd have anything else to talk about. We actually we had miscalculated our time and we have anything else to talk about. So we went to lunch and we said man, we got to fill all afternoon. What are we gonna do? And and and I don't know if Ryan or I are together, I think we pretty much together we came up with the idea let's just challenge people to come up and tell us the smartest thing They've learned in the last six months and how it affected their business, and let's give whoever gives the best idea. And I think the first person that came up, ryan or I won Jeff Mulligan's, a good friend of ours and he's from as a former boss tonight lives in New Hampshire and he always says wicked smart, that's wicked smart, you know. And yeah, and the first person came up and they did their thing was whoo, that's wicked smart and that's stuck. And that's how wicked smart got started. But we never did unplugged. I used to do unplugged with Andy Jenkins at Stompernet years ago when I would. I used to go speak for them every now and then and one of the things that I did was really, really cool was called unplugged and we just Andy and I, would sit down on the edge of the stage. I don't, andy was brilliant. I don't know if you ever knew him or not. He was absolutely a really really brilliant guy and he and I would sit on the edge of the stage and talk to people for hours. You know it was a lot of fun. So I kind of picked that up from Andy.   Kevin King: Yeah, I do that at the billion dollar source. I'm not do a hat contest, so the last day, what well? I do two things. I incentivize the speakers to bring it, so I put a cash prize on the speakers. So, because I don't want them doing the same presentation they just did it three other conferences or same thing they talked about on podcast I want them to bring their a game, so I put a five thousand dollar cash prize on the first and twenty five hundred on second. It's voted on the last day. I'm ineligible. I always speak last, so I'm ineligible.   But all the other speakers that I invite after the last one spoke, everybody votes On who they thought was the best speaker, deliver the best value, and then that person gets five grand. So it's become like an honor to do that and then, as a result, everybody is bringing next level stuff that they normally wouldn't talk about. Because, and then I publish the list of the and you know, if there's 15 speakers I Public, I start at number 10. I don't show number 11 through 15. I want to embarrass somebody totally, but I start at number 10 and go backwards and announce them up like it's. You know, like it's a billboard top 100 or something, casey casem or whatever and it works really really well because Everybody's. If you're not in the top 10 of a speaker, you're like you know you didn't do so well, you didn't resonate, and then you're not coming back if you need a spelling of my name for the check. You've been involved in AI for like seven years before. It was the cool thing to do, I think probably six yeah, probably six years.   Perry: I got. I spoke on AI at the largest TNC, that one before COVID. I spoke on AI and showed Jarvis and Well said labs and a bunch of those before Anybody or anything, and and everybody in the room was just blown away by it and I feel certain they didn't do anything at all when the dog, you know. But I was using it for copywriting and we were building services For and like this AI bot that were it'll be after this Heirs, but but this AI bot, you know, we're really concentrating more on the business models that you can apply AI to. So the first AI bot summit was all about Opening people's minds up to it, so they understood what it was, understanding how to use the tools and and really just grasping this. One thought of If you had 10,000 really smart people willing to work for you 24 hours a day for free, what would you have them do? That's always my question, because with AI and a little bit of robotics, that's what you have. You have an unlimited amount of Robotic slaves to do your bidding right, whatever you want, and they don't take breaks and they don't break up with a boyfriend and they don't sue you for, you know, workplace compliance issues and all that stuff and, and you're gonna see, I think it's already happening. It's just people aren't exposed to it in mainstream yet, but Corporate is projecting like huge profits over the next few years as they Diminish the amount of workers, physical workers they haven't replaced with AI Elon Musk whether you like him or not, you know, cut the workforce at Twitter by 90% and arguably, the experience for the end user hasn't changed.   Kevin King: Yeah right, yeah, it's, it's your event back in just to tell a quick little story. Then we'll go into this. But your event back in April. You're showing some business uses. You know you're talking about the army of 10,000. You showed something about a. You know here's a building, the payroll of this building and use AI and the payroll goes from I don't know some crazy number of a million dollars a month to 86 dollars a month or what some exaggerate there.   Perry: It's the Empire State Building and the payroll. The daily payroll in the Empire State Building is about I I'm gonna paraphrase, I don't remember the numbers, but it's about a million dollars or more a day and the average worker output 750 words of text a day in white collar America. So if you translate that into the cost of open AI to generate the same 750 words, it's about 42 bucks, I think yeah, it's like you know it's it's in 42 I mean for all of them, not for one of all of you know 42 bucks or 92, but it wasn't much.   Kevin King: It was less than less than 200 dollars, I think, to generate the same amount of work product one of the things that you talked about there were newsletters and like how AI can automate a lot of newsletters and and I'm a I'm gonna disagree with you a little bit there on where you can actually have. I think at that time you may have changed your tune now I'm not sure. But you're like let AI do all the writing, do everything. You can just put these things on autopilot and I think that's definitely possible, but the quality sucks and for the most part, unless you're just assembling links. But if, but, but. What you said there actually about newsletters got me thinking. It's backed on that same thing we're talking about earlier bringing this all together. Here is where, about going to events. It's like you know what I used to run a newsletter in the late 90s and early 2000s that we that had 250,000 daily subscribers. We crushed it as using that as a lead magnet to sell memberships, to sell physical products, to sell everything. What, if you know? And this Amazon product space, everybody's always trying to build audiences and they're always like go build a Facebook group, go Create a blog post and you, as you know, the most valuable asset in any business as your customer list, your email list, your Custom list and be able to use that when you want, as you please. And you can't do that on social media. You have no control with algorithms on Facebook, you know, have no control over how many people see your LinkedIn post or or anything. But with an email list or a customer base database, you do. I was like, wait a second, what if we took newsletters and did this with physical products and actually to build audiences? So if I'm selling a dog products and I happen to have sustainable dog products, I'm like what if I build an audience? A dog, the dog markets half of America. That's too big. Well, if I niche that down to some people who ends dogs and sustainability, create a newsletter for them. I'm not trying to sell them anything. This is not a promotional email from my company saying, hey, look at our latest product, here's our new things. But it's more of a about the dogs, about dog training, dog tips, food tips, whatever. And then occasionally spreeking on some affiliate links To test things or you maybe even get a sponsorship. So make this thing self-sustaining and when you're ready to launch a product, you have an avid, rabid, loyal fan base to launch that product to as like this is the way to actually build things. So we I started looking into it Devoured everything you you showed about newsletters. You even set up a special tele I think it was telegram Newsletter channel, devoured everything in there. I went out, devoured everything in the newsletter space for three months, like everything is like. I already know this stuff, but I want to re educate myself on the latest tools, the latest strategies, and I just launched one In August, august 14th for the Amazon space. That's that I already have an audience there. Let me figure this out. Let me, like, figure out what are the best tools, the best systems, and then I can spread this to across multiple industries, multiple things, and that's what we're doing now and it's hugely Successful so far. And and AI is a part of that. But I'm not letting AI write it. AI is more of the, the creative side. It's how it it will rewrite something. If I'm trying to think of a headline, I'm like what's a better way to say X, y, z? I'll type in what's a better way, you know, to say we're ten ways that there are funny and catchy, in the tone of Perry Belcher, whatever it may be, to say this you know, give me all these cool ideas and then I mix and match, or sometimes it nails it, or I'll write a. I do a six you, you talked about this and one of your things the six second video, and so the beginning of every one of my newsletters is a six second, basic six second story. It's a personal story About me. It's something about me meeting Michael Jordan, spending a night with him in a sweet and Atlantic City the day before the night before he first retired, and you know it's crazy. Stories are about my divorce or about you know, so you're a naked girl on the balcony. I know it's, it's edgy, crazy story. But then I tie that back into the physical products and I'll use AI sometimes, maybe to help tweak that. Or if we got it some scientific document from Amazon about how the algorithm works, I'll use it to read the document, summarize it and then, you know, rewrite it with a human touch and add personality to it. So that's where using AI in other industries. I think it is brilliant. Most people aren't getting that right now. Most people just think of it as this is a threat to my job, this is a threat to you, this is the terminators coming to kill me and take over the world.   Perry: So what about? Everything's a conspiracy theory.   Kevin King: Yeah, I mean AI. I was just had just had a chat in August, so it's my father's 82nd birthday and I was sitting there for an hour explaining AI to you know, an 82 year old and a 79 year old in their mind was just, they're just was blown. They're like how do you know all this? This is, this is like science fiction movies or something, and like this is what you can do with it. And most people don't understand that. What are your thoughts on on AI right now and how people are misunderstanding or misusing and what are the best opportunities out there?   Perry: Well, circling back to your newsletter thing that the AI sucks for newsletters, it depends on the kind of newsletter you're writing.   Kevin King: That's what I said. If it's a link, newsletter or something, you can do it.   Perry: If it's a, if it's an aggregated or what you call a link newsletter, what I call a curated newsletter, they add as a really good job at writing basically a tweet and then linking to the article, and you do that like eight or nine times and you got a newsletter. But did you see the one?   Kevin King: the hustle, I think it's. They did a study. Like people are saying that. I don't know if you saw this from the hustle, but the hustle actually hired a guy, he went out and he did Let me see if I can fully automate a newsletter 100% AI so they had their programmers do some stuff and they put it out. It was about the nineties. So they would take today. You know, if today is, you know, April 6th, no, august 6th 2023, they would do August 6th 1993. What happened on that day? You know? Jurassic.   Perry: Park, the whole movie.   Kevin King: But the thing is it was repeating itself. The way it was writing was like all it was just you got to have, you got to have ins that.   Perry: Do a final review. I mean you got to have a human still, do a final review. Yeah, we've got a system. So Chad, my partner Chad, built a software system we're about to launch actually it's called Letterman and it we manage 18 newsletters a day through it and we do it with three outsourcers.   Kevin King: And the way that we do it is we hand out the we handpick what we're going to talk about.   Perry: So basically, we have a bunch of API feeds that tell us these are the stories that are trending about this subject today, and then our guys can go in and just hit, click, click, yes, yes, yes, no, yes, yes, no, delay, delay, delay. So maybe for a future issue, and then it's going to pull together those links and drop them into our software and then the software reads the article and then writes a like a tweet, that tells them to go, that compels them to go read this article. The call to action is compelling them to read the article. Right?   Kevin King: So that's SDO, then something really. It's a. Or is it a newsletter? It's a newsletter.   Perry: So this all goes into a newsletter and basically like, for instance, financials, a great example. The capitalists is ours and we want them to be able to get the gist of, like the Wall Street Journal and three thumbs swipes. And even though we're only writing, there might be 10 links in here. Right, we're writing like 140 characters on each link, compelling you to go click the link, and AI is writing that.   Kevin King: Okay.   Perry: And then they're going over and reading the actual article on the original source, right, okay, so so it's expanded.   Kevin King: It's an expanded judge report or something. It's exactly what it is.   Perry: It's not. It's not even kind of like it. It's exactly what it is Now the opposite. That's only really useful if you have a news worthy topic. Yeah. News or financial or something that's not for entertainment, financial entertainment, sports, politics things that change every single day. But if you're in the Amazon space, you got to think about it more like a, a magazine.   Kevin King: That's what I do, yeah.   Perry: So what we'll do there is find a feature article or three features. Three feature articles is even better. So we'll, let's say, for instance, my things on Amazon, and I'm talking about optimizing the perfect Amazon listing, right? I don't know whatever, but I'd go find three, the three best articles I could possibly find on that subject anywhere in the world, feed them into the AI, have them read all three and then write me a new article. And oftentimes the way we keep it interesting, we have characters, ghost writers created that right in the style of whomever right. So, but I mean really detailed. But one of the things that we found, Kevin, that's killing right now that you might find is our email list. I'm on a mission to get my email list to never send a promotion ever.   Kevin King: That's what I'm on to. I'm on to yeah.   Perry: So the way I do it is by sending out content, so like Perry might send out an email. You're doing it every day right now.   Kevin King: I get an email from you every day on copywriting Big, long email right. Yeah, big long. No, I save them. They're valuable. I mean, some of them go into my swap file.   Perry: It's a subtle.   Kevin King: It's a subtle like you're staying top of mind. You're doing it. Dan Kennedy does it right now and there's a couple others. He's doing that with Russell, but I and they're valuable. You can just read that and never do another thing. But it's you're staying top of mind and then you'll put in something OPS, remember the AI summits coming or whatever that stuff works.   Perry: But what's about to happen with those lists and we're doing another list right now is, once you open that thing about headline writing right, I can fire off a straight up promotion to you.   Kevin King: Yeah, you're segmenting based on what I click and what I do open and read Instantly.   Perry: So you're opening reading my article, right? So you just read my article about headlines and then the. Then you close that article down close that email. The next email in your queue is from me going hey, fibs, copywriting course is 50% off today. Great deal, and you're already so pre-framed to that. The open, the open rate on that second email is like 70 to 80%. Yeah, yeah, we're doing that.   Kevin King: We're going to do that in the product space, where we will watch what people click and if they're always looking on the docs and story, we'll start feeding them more docs. And there's a tool out there, there's a what. There's a tool that does this for the AMA right now, that that does newsletters, where it automated it watches everything and automatically get basically creates a personalized feed in a newsletter we want to Instagram.   Perry: We basically want to Instagram the newsletter business. So if you're only opening dots and stuff, then we want to deliver dots and stuff to you. If you're only delivering lip plumper articles, then we want to deliver a lip plumper off offers to you and and make the newsletter more lip related.   Kevin King: If that's your thing you're into in a makeup space, we're talking about it for newsletters, for you know Amazon sellers, but you can do this for physical products. You can do this for any industry and then leverage off of that. You see that they're always by clicking on the docs and ads. Then you start driving them to your print on demand docs and t-shirts, or you start driving them to Amazon to buy docs and bowls or whatever it's there's a guy that sells drones on Amazon.   Perry: You should have a drone newsletter. You know. You absolutely should have a drone newsletter. We say when, when Perry and I are talking about newsletters there's a big misconception in my mind.   Kevin King: Maybe you have a little bit different take on it, but so many people have what they call a newsletter. You go to their website you know the drone maker, sign up for our newsletter and the newsletter is nothing but a promotional email. It's like hey, we just announced two new parts. We just announced this to me. That's not a newsletter. That's a good one. That's not a newsletter.   Perry: That's a good one. You're not going to get deliverability on it either I mean a newsletter provides value.   Kevin King: It's like 95% value, 5% promotional. It's valued, something you want to get it to where people look forward to getting it, not, oh God dang. I just got another freaking email from drones. Or us Delete, delete, delete. They like I got to open this because they may have some cool tactic in there on how to fly my drone, you know, or in heavy winds, or whatever. Whatever it may be. That's where you got to be thinking when you're doing this, and AI is a great tool. And I always remember something you said when just as a quick aside here, it's a quote I often re-quote you on this and credit to you but you always said, when it comes to selling products on Amazon, people don't buy products on Amazon. They buy photos, absolutely, and so can you talk about just for the Amazon people.   Perry: Nobody can buy a picture. Nobody can buy anything on the internet. It's impossible. All you can do is buy a picture or something that's. Or if you're writing copy, you're creating a mental picture of a thing, right? So yeah, I'm a big believer in product photography being a giant piece of what you do and making something that's demonstrable. If you can actually show how it works in a 30 second video clip, I think that's different than anything. You know that works more powerfully than anything, because you've got to, and design I think you're seeing now is becoming more and more important the quality of your design, because we don't have any way to trust companies, right? You don't really have a way. It used to be the old Dan Kennedy world and Dan at the time was right. You know, ugly sells and pretty doesn't, right? The truth is today, pretty outsells ugly, and that's just. We've proved it eight times, eight times over. Pretty outsells ugly, and especially if you're selling a physical good, right? So don't skimp on the amount of money you spend on photography and photo editing and all those things. I was in was in Kevin interesting thing I was in Guangzhou, China, and I went to this illustration company. They do illustrations, you know. Have you been to? You've been to Yiwu before? Yeah, I've been able. Ok, so you know, upstairs in Yiwu, like on the fourth and fifth floor, it's all service companies, web companies, and I found a company up there and they were doing watches so they would take a watch. You can't take a good enough photograph of a watch for that photograph to actually work in a magazine. It's an impossibility. So what they do is they take a picture of the watch and they pull it into an illustration computer and then there's a program just for jewelry that has all of these textures and paint brushes and all that and they actually build the watch on top of the photo. They build an illustration of the watch and if you ever pick up a magazine and really look at, get a magnifying glass and look at the picture of the Rolex on the back right, you can see where there's an illustration piece cut here or there. You don't see any of the photo. They completely overlay it. But sometimes it takes these guys two weeks to set on illustrator and replace every little pixel dot. Everything is a vector and then they send that off and that.   Kevin King: But now AI can do a lot of that.   Perry: Yeah, I don't know how much I would trust it to do that, but yeah, it probably can. It can certainly enhance the photos a lot. You're seeing AI photo enhancement become a really big deal. Have you seen that thing that takes? I mentioned it at AIBotson. I'm trying to think of the name of it now Topaz.   Kevin King: Yeah.   Perry: Topazai. Well, you can take your old video footage and it'll turn it into 4K footage. It looks pretty doggone good. I mean, you take an old piece of footage that you shot 10 years ago and you run it through there and it'll give you a whole face lift and make it really appear to be a 4K footage.   Kevin King: Yeah, as Remini does that for photos, you can have some old photo or even something you downloaded, some stock image you downloaded online. It's kind of low res because they want you to go pay for the high res. Just download the low res, run it through Remini and it'll upscale it. And upscaleio is another one. There's a bunch of them and some of it's like holy cow. This is amazing stuff.   Perry: Another year from now, probably most of the things that we're using services for now will be you know you don't have to. We're making a lot of money right now in the Philippines by our outsource company uses AI to do things for people. So if you wanted an illustration of a product or whatever, you could send it to man. We're going to charge X for that, but we're actually going to use tools that cut our labor time down by 80, 90%. We haven't got it to where we can cut it all the way out yet and we still hire art directors. You know, really, but it allows you to, instead of hiring 30 B minus designers and you know an art director, you use AI and you get three or three or so, three or four really high level art directors and you don't need all the carpenters anymore. Right, and if you've seen the way they're building houses now, with the brick laying machines and all that all the carpenters, all the framers that won't be a profession in another 24 months.   Kevin King: Well, that's the scare I think that general public has when it comes to AI is like, well, it's going to take my job and so I don't want that, but look what happened in the industrial revolution, look what happened when the wheel wasn't been it. People will adapt and if you don't adapt, you're going to get left behind. And I think right now, one of the biggest skills if you're listening to this and you're, you know, in high school or college or you're young and still trying to figure you need to learn how to do prompting Prompting. I think good prompting versus okay prompting can make a world of difference with AI. As this gets more sophisticated, being good at prompting is going to be a major skill set that's high in demand. Would you agree with that?   0:55:51 - Perry: I think so. It's funny though, you know. Now you can go to open AI and say write me a mid-journey prompt. Yeah you know this and use this camera lens and this but you don't want the camera lens.   Kevin King: That's where photographers and artists right now are.   Perry: You kind of don't. You can actually have open AI right the mid-journey prompt for you. It's crazy and a lot of people are doing that and I think that's. I think prompting is going to become easier and easier, but it's still going to require imagination.   Kevin King: You know.   Perry: No, no artificial intelligence engines ever going to be able to replace imagination. You know it's not going to happen. So I think that we're we're we're fine for, you know, a good long while. I don't see it being a problem, but there's good money to be made right now with just arbitrage. You know how it is, kevin. You've been around this business long enough. When, anytime, a market is inefficient, that's when all the money's made, right, and right now you got people who need things done. Nobody wants to work, right? So you know AI is just filling the slot perfectly, so we can offer services. Now that used to be. You know, like. We'll do unlimited video editing for $2,000 a month, right? Well, we're doing 90% of that video editing with AI. If we were doing it by hand, we'd have searched $10,000 a month, right, and the end of the day, the customer doesn't care. The customer's getting the desired product delivered within a timeline. They don't really care if you did it yourself or if a robot did it. And if they do care, well, it's probably not your kind of customer, right? So all the stuff that you guys go through of writing product descriptions and all your SEO, your keyword loading and your product photo enhancement and all the stuff that you do, I'd say within a year, probably. Right now, if you're studious you can do 90% of it?   Kevin King: Yeah, you can, but within a year. I mean, it's been a big thing. I just was in another mastermind with a big Chinese seller. He does $50 million a year or something. He's based in China and sells into the US and he said that AI has been a leveling ground for the Chinese sellers.   Perry: Yeah, of course.   Kevin King: Because now they used to, you'd have all that broken English and stuff on listings or they couldn't understand the culture to write it in the right way. And he said with AI, that advantage is gone for Westerners, so you got to step up your game and now it's in. Still, you have an advantage in branding or innovation or some other areas, but it's leveling the playing field for a lot of people.   Perry: Yeah, we found it. We found with Mid Journey packaging design.   Kevin King: Yeah.   Perry: It's been. Packaging design mockups have been amazing. We've come up with some really great packaging ideas that we wouldn't have come up with and for the most part you can send those over to your factories in China and get a reasonable.   Kevin King: When people are doing that for product. Now they'll come up with a product idea like, hey, I want to make a I don't know a new dog bowl. You'll have the AI create. You know, they'll give it some parameters. It needs to be this, it needs to be slow the dog down from eating or not slip on the floor, whatever Right and have the AI create a hundred different models of it. Just boom, boom, boom. Use 3D illustrations, put that into a tool like PickFu, let people vote on it and then, you know, have the top couple. You know, go to molding and make prototypes and then do some additional testing. You couldn't do that. That's just what you can do. Now is just some of the times, sometimes almost mind boggling.   Perry: And robotics have really taken down molding costs.   Kevin King: Yeah.   Perry: Back when you and I started, you know I want to custom mold for this. Well, it'll be $100,000. Now you know, six grand you know, whatever it lasts, you know, depending on what you're molding, but it's crazy how cheap molding costs have gotten.   Kevin King: So we're almost out of time here. Actually we've gone over, but just real quick before we wrap up. What are? What would you say are three things out there that you're seeing right now that either hot opportunities that people need to be paying attention to, or three big, or maybe even three big mistakes that people are making when it comes to trying to sell physical products to people.  

The roundtable interview with Matt and Caleb Maddix and a small group of people who are trying to change the world. Enjoy part three of this special 4 part episode series. Hit me up on IG! @russellbrunson Text Me! 208-231-3797 Join my newsletter at marketingsecrets.com ---Transcript--- Russell Brunson: What's up everybody, this is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to The Marketing Secrets podcast. I hope you've been enjoying this series so far. This is The Roundtable of World Changers, a conversation I had with Matt and Caleb Maddix, and a whole bunch of young entrepreneurs, who are literally out there trying to change the world. This is part three of a four part episode, because the conversation went for three or four hours. And so, this episode's also going to be about 40 minutes long, and it's the next set of questions they asked me. And if you've listened to the last two, you know that these guys ask a lot of questions, in a lot of different directions, and angles, and went all over the place. And I think this time is probably 01:00 or 02:00 in the morning. And so, the questions started going from everywhere, from business, to relationships, to families, and a whole bunch more. So I hope you enjoy this next episode. Here's some of the bullet points of things you're going to learn about. We talked about the 10 commandments of marketing. I talked about my very first mentor, and a thing he taught me, not just to make money in the short term, but how to build a business that now has lasted me for almost two decades. I talk about one of my friends and mentors, Daegen Smith and something that he taught me. It was so simple, yet it's been the key to help me get thousands of people a day to join my email list. We talked about leadership, delegation, scheduling. We talk about, as you're building a team, understanding people's unique abilities. Talked about how much time you spend thinking about the future. Talked about proximity with billionaires. We also talked about how to balance your business and married life, so you can be a good husband and a good father, which is something that I stress about all the time. We talked about a principle that I learned from Stacey and Paul Martino, that has been one of the most powerful things I've learned, which is called demand-relationship. I talk about that. We talk about some relationship tricks, for those who are either married or getting married. Some of the newlyweds, and the engaged couples, were asking some questions about that. Hopefully I don't get in trouble for sharing some of my tricks. We talked about knowing what your values are, and your priorities. Talked about being vulnerable, and being honest, versus staying positive through challenges. We talked about some of the biggest principles and things I learned from Tony Robbins, including how to change your state whenever you need to. And we talked about my 12 year relationship with Tony Robbins, and all the things behind that. We talked about... I don't want to spoil any more. You guys, this is a fun interview. And hopefully, you've been enjoying these so far. So with that said, we're going to cut to the theme song. When we come back, we're going to take you guys immediately back into this conversation. This is, again, The Roundtable of World Changers, part three of four. Matt Maddix: Let's say there was a Russell Brunson 10 commandments. You know how God had one. Russell: Thou shall build a list. Matt: Yeah. How high is this in the 10 commandments? Russell: My first mentor, Mark… Matt: And what would be some of the Russell Brunson... Let's come up with some of them. Like, "Thou shalt..." Russell: We need some stone tablets. Matt: "To all the funnel hackers, thou shalt and thou shall not." I want to hear- Russell: That would be a fun presentation, actually. Matt: Yeah, that would be, actually. Caleb Maddix: That would be. Russell: That would be cool. Matt: Dude, you need to do that. Russell: Come back from the mountain, we have 10 things. Matt: Yeah, seriously. Caleb: Wow. That'd be awesome. Matt: No, the five 'thou shalts', and like, "Thou shall..." and then- Russell: "Thou shall..." Matt: ..."Thou shall not, no matter what..." What would some of those be? Russell: That could be a really cool presentation, actually. Well, so I would say, in my first venture was Mark Joyner, and he was the one... So in context, in history, 18 years when I started, Mark Joyner... I don't think it's probably known. He's brilliant. But he built a company, and sold it off. And at the very end of his career as a coach person, I got to meet him and get to know him a little bit. But I remember, at that time, Google AdSense was this thing that came. And so, if any of you guys are old enough, just try and remember the Google AdSense days. It was insane. They were software. You click a button on software, it would pop out of site, pop out another site. And these sites would make anywhere from 100 to $1000 a day. And you just keep clicking this button, it would pop out another site. And so, people were making $1 million a month. They had teams in the Philippines, that these guys just clicking the button to build the software. It was just... But it was all fake. But it was tons of money. Insane amounts of money. I had friends making so much money. And shiny object, very shiny object, the most sexy shiny object of all time. You click a button, you can make $1 million. That was it, that was the pitch. And it was true. Matt: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Russell: For so... Everyone I knew. Can you imagine that? Matt: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Russell: If I go back in time, 18 years ago, I would move to the Philippines, I would hire everybody, and we would just click buttons. And I would've been- Caleb: Wow. Russell: ...a billionaire. It was- Caleb: Wow. Russell: It was insane. That's how Google got people adopting the AdSense program. So people would put ads on every single site, every single everything. And so, I'm getting in this game, I'm seeing this, and I'm morons making insane amounts of money. And I was like, "Ah!" And Mark had just become my mentor, the very first time, and he's like, "That's going to go away. Focus on building a list." I'm like, "But this guy's a moron. He made $1 million last month clicking a button. No strategy, no brains, no nothing." He's like, "I know, but it's going to go away. Focus on building a list." I'm like- Matt: Wow. Russell: But- Matt: Seriously? Russell: "He's clicking a button. Building lists is hard." He's like, "Build a list." I'm like... And I remember fighting him and fighting him, he's just like, "Dude, trust me. I've been on cycle. It's going to go away. Just focus and focus." And I was so upset, but I listened because I do that. One thing I pride myself on, I'm very coachable. Coach tells me something, I do it. I obey all giants with helicopters and stage presence. Matt: I love it. Russell: They tell me to do it, I do it, right? So I was like, "Ah, but there's free money in piles-" Matt: Even when it's hard- Russell: "All right." Matt: ...you do it. Russell: So I did it. And sure enough, I was doing that, and doing that, within six months, this things collapsed, disappeared, destroyed people's lives. Because you're making $1 million a month clicking buttons, what do you do? Especially as a young kid. Matt: Spending that much money. Russell: You're buying Lambos, and Ferraris, and helicopters, and pilots, and girls, and insane amounts of money. And then it disappears overnight. Devastating, ruined these guys, ruined them, so many people. Matt: There's no skill behind that at all. Russell: Yeah. And I had a list, and I just coasted through it. Right? And I've looked at the SEOs, every single up and down, up and down, through the years, and I just listened to Mark and just focused on building my list, focused on building it, and- Matt: So you still feel that as strong today, as when you heard it? Russell: 100%. Matt: Even then. Russell: 100%. That's one of our KPIs. How many people doing lists today? Every single day. Matt: Really? Everyday? Russell: Everyday. Because I did it for a long time- Matt: Even now, you're saying? Russell: 100%, everyday. John Parkes everyday sends me a number. “How many people joined our list yesterday?” That's all I want to know. Caleb: What's your guys' email open rates? Russell: It fluctuates. 20 ish percent. Caleb: Okay. Russell: Around there. But it was funny because I remember, I had forgotten that lesson after a while. And if you guys know Daegen Smith, Daegen, he's getting back in the game now. He's brilliant. But I remember I had a list, and I was my money off of it. I wasn't focusing on it. And I remember he asked me a question, he said, "How many..." It wasn't, "How many people are on your list?" Because that's what most people ask, "How big's your list?" But he asked me a different question, which input output, right? Matt: Yeah. Russell: The question was, "How many people joined your list today?" And I was like, "I don't know." He's like, "Go look right now." I'm like, "Okay." So I log in, and look at the thing, it was like 12. And I was like, "12?" And I was like, "Is that good or bad? I don't know." And he's like, "Let me show you mine." And he showed me his, and it was like 1400. And I was like, "You had 1400 people join today?" He's like, "Yeah." "Wait, how'd you do that?" He's like, "I just look at it everyday. And when I look at it everyday, somehow it grows." And I was like- Matt: Wow. Russell: "Okay." So then, everyday, after I log in and look at my thing, it was like 12, I'm like, "Ah." In my head, I'm like, "Fricken Daegen had 1400. I only 12." Caleb: Yeah. Matt: Wow. Russell: And also, I was like, "What do I do to get people to join the list?" Matt: Yeah, start optimizing. Russell: And then, your mind starts thinking differently, and all of a sudden you start focusing on it. And it's crazy. I can't tell you how many entrepreneurs, that have been in my world, who have gone up and then come down. And what happens, mostly, is they do something, they build a big list, they stop adding fuel to the fire, they have this list, they sell things to the list, the list atrophies, and eventually starts shrinking and dying. And then, they don't know how to build lists, the business crashes and dies. Matt: I hope you guys are really listening. Really. I mean, he's- Caleb: That's powerful. Matt: ...saving your life right now. Russell: The question, the goal, every single day, is that, because it's a fuel to your fire. And what happens was you stop putting fuel on the fire, and it doesn't die immediately. So you're like, "Oh, I've turned off Ads, so I'm good. But I'm just going to focus on emails, let's focus that." But just every email you send out, your list atrophies, shrinks, dies. And then, eventually, it'll just die. And so, yeah, if you're not consistently, constantly feeding the list, every single day- Matt: And once you have the list, what's the biggest mistake people make with their list? Russell: They don't email it. Matt: Yeah. Russell: They're scared to... You think it's too much emails. It's not, it's the opposite. It's that they don't email. Caleb: Okay. Russell: Minimum of three times a week. Closer to everyday. Matt: Wow. Russell: If you talk to Daegen, it's twice a day, everyday. Matt: Really? Caleb: What other KPIs do you have sent to you every single day? Russell: I want to know how much we made yesterday, striped. Because first off, it's cool to know. Caleb: Yeah. Russell: But second off, also it's like, I want that number to be bigger everyday. So it's like, actual money in the thing, how many people joined the list today, and how many books are sold, how many ClickFunnels members. Those are the ones for me. Our teams have other KPIs they focus on. But those are the ones I care about. Matt: So out of 30 days, when you hear the numbers, how often are you pissed and how often are you like, "Yeah."? Russell: Nowadays, it's always pretty good. Matt: Nowadays, it's like, "Woo." Russell: Because it might go up or down a little bit, but the numbers are big enough, that it's just like, "That's so crazy." I remember... Anyway. I remember just the growth of ClickFunnels, because you know Stripe dings every day with your numbers. I remember when we started going, it got to the point where it's like $10,000 a day, I was like, "$10,000 a day is insane. That's just so cool." And then, it got to a point where it's like $20,000 a day, and then 30, and then $50,000 a day, and then $100,000 a day, and then 150, then 200, 250, 300. I'm just like, "This is insane to me, that this is a daily thing that come..." it was just... Anyway, that's when it got just weird. And it makes me mad because Todd made a commitment to me, that as soon as we passed $500,000 a month in sales, he'd move to Boise. Matt: And he didn't yet? Russell: No. So... Matt: You were out of there already. Russell: And then, I was like, "Well, we have $500,000 a day." And then, he still hasn't come. So I don't know. Some day. Do you think Todd will ever move to Boise? Speaker 4: Plus I'm curious if I could pop in to ask a question. Russell: Yeah, feel free. Speaker 4: I've always wanted to ask someone of your stature, that's done as much as you have, impacted as much people as you have, and really built the business that you have. So I'm curious on your take on leadership, building a team, delegating, and your schedule and how you go about scheduling your day, and prioritizing what's important for you, as a business owner, and what you delegate to your employees and their responsibilities as well. So leadership, delegating, and scheduling. Russell: Good question. It's interesting because I would say I'm not the best leader on my team, by any stretch. And so, it was interesting because I spent the first four or five years with ClickFunnels as the CEO, trying to do my best with it. But it wasn't my unique ability, is leadership. I feel like I'm good at leading a community, but I struggle a lot more with employees and teams, internally. And so, about a year ago or so, I handed the reins to Dave Woodward, to be the CEO of ClickFunnels. And he's been amazing. Man, what he's done inside the company has been awesome. And I think a big part of it is understanding, at least for me personally, I was trying to be a leader, and trying to develop that, but I wasn't the best at it. And I think sometimes we think it's always got to be us. Like, "It's my company, I got to be the CEO. I got to be the leader. I got to do these things." It's understanding that a lot of times there's people who are really good. Who's the best you could find to be that? Or any part of our business. You know what I mean? It's a big part of it. The second thing is, if you've studied Dan Sullivan at all, one of his biggest things is unique ability. That's the thing. What's your unique ability? What's everybody's unique ability? And I think when you start a company, it's tough because it's like everyone's in charge of everything, right? I'm the CEO, but I'm also taking out the garbage, I'm also doing... everyone's Speaker 4: Yeah. Russell: ...doing a little bit of everything, which is cool. When you're scrappy in the beginning, that's important, and everyone's doing that. But as you grow, that starts hindering you more and more and more, where we had people who are insanely talented, who if I could just get them doing this thing, 100% of the time... And that's when it got to the point with ClickFunnels, is that my unique abilities are writing, are being in videos, are building funnels, doing the... Those things are my unique abilities. Caleb: Engineering. Russell: Yeah. And I was spending maybe 10% of my time on that, and 90% of the time in meetings, and trying- Matt: Wow. Russell: ...coordinate people, and leadership. And it was stressful and it was hard. Matt: And you were draining. You were probably drained doing that. Russell: Yeah. And I was miserable, that was just... I wasn't good at it. Not feeling good, like, "Ah, I'm not getting through to people. I can't figure this out." But I felt like I had to own, I had to be the guy, I had to do the thing because this is my baby, this is my business. And the last 12 months has been crazy, because I handed it to someone who actually is good at that, that is his unique ability. And I'm watching company structure, and meetings, and KPIs, things that I was never super good at doing, and consistently having it all happening now. And now, I'm in the marketing department again, and I'm building funnels. People are like, "What do you do all day?" I'm literally in ClickFunnels, building funnels. "No, but you have funnel builder..." No, I'm literally in ClickFunnels, building funnels. I didn't start this business because I wanted to be a CEO of a big huge company. I did it because I love building funnels. I'm an artist, when it comes down to it, this is my art. Matt: Wow. Russell: And that's what I get to do now. And it's amazing. So Dan's got Fridays we book out, and we spend videos, he's got a whole bunch of YouTube videos, we film five or six YouTube vlogs last week, on Friday. So we have that times blocked out to do that, right? I'm writing my next book right now, so I've got my mornings blocked out to write books, because that's when my mind's got not a million things so I can do that. And then, after morning comes in, after I do my wrestling practice, I come in. And that's my teams there, and that's when we're building funnels. I got my designer and my copywriter, the people, and I get to facilitate that. And I feel like the... What's the guy in the orchestra, the maestro? Caleb: Conductor? Russell: Yeah, like I'm the conductor, I'm conducting all these talented people. And everyone's bringing... And I'm alive, and it's exciting. And at night, I can't sleep, because I'm excited again. And so, I think that's the biggest thing, is taking the pressure off yourself if you're not the best leader. That's okay. What are you the actual best at? And success, in business, I think, at least for me, I always thought I had to be the best at everything. And it's the opposite, where it's like, "How do you focus on the thing you're best at? And get the rest of the people around you." Speaker 4: Yeah. And it gets- Matt: And it's... You had to have been willing to let go of your ego, man. Or you wouldn't have been able to grow so much. If you try to do it all yourself... Caleb: So I have a question. How much time do you spend actually thinking about the future? Because it seems like, from what you've told us, you're very dialed in and obsessed on the process, and that's how you've gotten to where you are, up to this point, because you're in love with the game. How much of your time do you spend thinking about the future, and what's on the horizon next year, five years, 10 years? Does that cross your mind? Or what does that look like? Russell: It's interesting, I can't remember who was talking to about this... The further out you look, the fuzzier it gets. You know what I mean? And so, I think for me, it's like we have... I know where I want to go, but the in between is really, really fuzzy, right? It's hard to know. And so, it's like I know... For me, the last big boat was $100 million, the next one's a billion. So we know there's the thing. But it's so far from... I don't know the steps to get there. You know what I mean? And so, for me, it's more like, "Well, here's where we're at." In fact, that was my... We had a chance, last month, to go spend a day with Tony Robbins, and we each had a chance to ask him one question. So that was literally my question, just like... Matt: What was your question? Russell: My question... It'll be a blog soon. Not yet though. No, but it was basically like, "We've gotten to this point, and I know to get to the next goal, the things we've been doing are great and they got us to this point, but I have to think differently to here. I don't know how to think differently. How do you think... It's not another book I'm... Is it a book? How do I think differently?" And what Tony said, that was... it's a very... He said a lot of things, but one of the big things was like, "Proximity is power," like, "You have to be in proximity with people who have already accomplished the thing that you're trying to do." And it was interesting because I look at the path of how I grew ClickFunnels, I did that 100%. I was like, "All right, who are the..." and we found the people, got proximity, and then grew it to this point. So eventually, we kind of coded out of the people who I was aware of. So I asked Tony, I'm like, "Well, where would you go to?" And he's like, "Well, if it was me," he's like, "Who's built the billion dollar company?" He's like, "Marc Benioff." And he started naming all these different billionaires. And this and that, all these things. And I was just like, "I never even assumed those people could... I could be..." it seems so far away. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, that's..." Having a proximity to those people, and start thinking differently, because I don't know the journey but they've done it. Because someone in our world, and like, "How do [inaudible 00:16:13]?" I'm like, "This is literally a 13 minute project. There you go. [inaudible 00:16:16]." It's like I've done it so many times, it's not hard, right? But for them, it's like this is the rocket science to figure it out. And then the same way with these guys who have built billion dollar companies. So now it's trying to proximity to those people, and trying to get around them, and trying to figure out the journey. So the first thing we did, literally, I got out with Tony, Tony gave the answer to the question, and I knew the first guy I needed to get into proximity with. So I texted Dave, Dave called him up, we brought him on retainer. And now, we've got him an hour a week, to get on the phone with him and just ask him all of our questions. And have him introduce us all the different players at that next level. So a lot of it's that. Dave, who's the CEO, was very focused on all the... He's very much like, "Okay, first, to get to this goal, we have to have everyone here, here, here. These are the percentages, the numbers, all the..." Those things stress me out, I hate spreadsheets. He's always got spreadsheets. But he comes back with all the spreadsheets, I was like, "All I need to know from you is... Because I'm going to be building a funnel. What's the goal? What do you need from me to be able to do that?" He's like, "We need more ClickFunnels trials." Like, "Done. I can... Okay. That's where I'm going to focus my energy." And then, it's like, now I can creative on that piece, because I know this is the metric that I can do, with my skillset, to drive it. And everybody's got a metric, right? The traffic team, everybody's got a metric. But for me personally, it's like the only thing I actually affect in a short term, micro, and then I can focus all the creativity and effort on that, while trying to figure out how to shift my mind set to be bigger, to... Caleb: If Marc Benioff offered you $1 billion for ClickFunnels, what would you say? Speaker 4: Good question. Russell: I'd ask him for five. Matt: Good response! Rob: Can I ask you a question, outside of business? Matt: You asking a question? Oh. Rob: Yeah. Matt: Oh, go ahead. Rob: So I remember you were talking about your wife earlier, with how you wanted to get her the couch. Me and my fiance actually met at ClickFunnels, at your event. Matt: Yeah. Rob: So- Matt: ClickFunnels wedding. Russell: No way. Rob: So what I'm curious about is- Russell: Am I going to be the best man at the wedding? Caleb: I told you, you've got to come, I'm like, "You've got to invite Russell." Rob: So what I wanted to ask you is, obviously you run a nine figure company, and there's a lot that goes into that, how do you balance with, let's say, number one, your wife and then your kids as well? And then, what is your secret to a really successful marriage, that's worked for you? Matt: Dude, what- Rob: I think that's something that many entrepreneurs have good marriages that don't really get asked about. So I was just curious about that. Matt: Yeah. Russell: So I hear three questions in there, right? So balance, happy wife... What was... There was a third one? Caleb: Kids. Rob: Yeah, just balancing it, running a company. I mean, you do all these things, you also have a wife, you have kids. Russell: Yeah. So I would say a couple things. So number one is balance is this thing that we all, for some reason, in our mind, we all seek after. But everything great in my life has come from times of radical imbalance. When I wanted to become a wrestler, I wasn't a great wrestler because I was balanced, it was because I became radically imbalanced in that thing. Matt: Dang. Russell: It became the most important thing in my life, and everything else suffered. But I had to do it to be considered successful. When I met my wife, we didn't create a great relationship because we were balanced, I became radically imbalanced. And all my time and effort and focus was on her. And that's why it became great. ClickFunnels, same way. We built ClickFunnels, I was not balanced. We had to become radically imbalanced for a season, to focus actually to get... So that's the thing to understand. In anything great in life, you can't do it in a point of balance. It's radical imbalance that causes greatness. Matt: And that's golf. Russell: And so, you got to be okay with that. But it can't be for forever. It's got to be something that goes, and it comes and goes. Because people who get radically imbalanced for a long time, they can lose their family, they can lose their kids. Rob: Was there a point where you had to tell your wife, "Hey, this is what I really want to do."? Russell: A lot. She had to- Rob: And she had to just- Russell: ...be on board with- Rob: ...get on board. Russell: She had to get on board, yeah. And if she wasn't, I had to say, "Okay, what's more important?" If it was her, then I had to say no to that. And there's been many opportunities in my life I've had to say no to. Rob: What's that dynamic like, being that guys are together, just as far as working out just normal little things? Russell: So I- Rob: Just decisions, those kind of things. Russell: Yeah, well, marriage, you're going to find out, it's hard. Just so fully aware. No one told me that, going into it. I was like- Matt: Yeah. Russell: I was like, "This is going to be amazing. This is going to be the greatest thing in the world." And it is, it's awesome. But man, it is way harder than I thought. Rob: Just to be a person. Russell: Yeah, someone's... I, actually, I would highly recommend Stacey and Paul Martino have a course that my wife and I have gone through the last year, and it's amazing. There's a principle they teach about demand-relationship. If you just go through their... They have a 14 day quick start, it's like $100. But if you just learn the principles of demand-relationship, what they teach. The biggest game changer in a relationship I ever... Of all the things I've studied... Rob: Why? Russell: It is amazing. Rob: What was your take-away? Russell: The principle of demand-relationship is that, throughout history and society, the way that most of us get things done is that... So in a relationship, there's a power player, and there's someone less, right? And if I want my wife to do something, I'm going to demand, like, "I need you to do these things." Right? And that works, until the other person has the ability to leave. So prior to divorce being a thing, men, throughout history, have had a dominant relationship over women. They used to manage and get what they want, and women couldn't leave. And so, it was a horrible thing, right? But they couldn't leave. As soon as divorce happened, boom, it started happening. Right? When parents come over to their kids and give demand-relationship, as soon as the kids are able to leave, it breaks. And then, breaks his relationships. And so, that's the problem, is that for the last 5000 years, that's been our DNA, that men force women to do these different things. And that's what the demand-relationship is. Their whole training, their whole course, everything they teach is the opposite of demand-relationship. How do you create a relationship, where transformation happens through inspiration, not through demanding, and chasing. And it's tough because, for all of us, especially men, it's been so ingrained in our DNA that if we want something, we... That's how we do business, how we do things. But in a relation, especially an intimate relationship, it's the worst thing that could possibly happen. And that's what we all do. So it'd be worth... I'm hoping she writes a book some day, because it's... In my new book, I have a whole chapter, actually, teaching her framework on in demand-relationship. What's that? Rob: Were you high school sweethearts? Russell: College, we met in college. Rob: So she was with you before you started... Russell: Yeah. Rob: ...and had the huge success- Russell: Yeah. Rob: ...basically. Russell: Yeah. Rob: What was that transition like, from you guys, I guess, being... struggling, and you guys stay together- Matt: Good questions, Rob. Rob: ...to now- Russell: His mindset's on this. Rob: Yeah. Russell: Going into it. Rob: What is that like? I'm just curious, because I mean people don't really talk about this, I guess, a lot. Caleb: Relationship genius. Russell: Yeah. And it's different, because some relationships, both the people are in the business, some aren't. My wife's not involved in the business at all. She... Rob: Oh, okay. Russell: ...doesn't understand it, and she doesn't want to be part of it. And that's okay. It's like sometimes that's been the biggest blessing for me, sometimes it's been hard. Caleb: Yeah. Russell: Right? Sometimes I see the power couples, who are both in the business, and it's really, really cool. But I ask them, and they're like, "Sometimes it's a great blessing, sometimes it's really hard." So there's pro's and con's both ways. But I think the biggest part is just, this has been good for our relationship, and at first we didn't always have this, but it was like... Just figuring out how to get... You both have to have that same end goal, otherwise you're fighting against each other, right? And so, when we were building ClickFunnels and stuff, it was hard at first, because she didn't really... She's like, "What are you guys doing? You spend all this time and..." didn't understand it. And it was tough because I was trying to explain it. And luckily, for me, is that Todd was part of this too, and his wife was kind of struggling. So they had each other to kind of talk through it. But it wasn't until the very first Funnel Hacking Live, where... Because my wife had never been to one of my events before, anything we'd really... She knew what kind of we did, but not really. And she came to Funnel Hacking Live, the very first one. And she didn't come down at first, because she didn't realize what was happening. And she was doing some stuff, and then, she came down with one of her friends and walked in the back of the room, and saw all the stuff. And she started just crying. She was like, "Oh, this is what you're... I had no idea this is what was happening, and what was..." And then, it became real for her. And that was such a huge blessing for me, because now, the next time, it was like, "We have to work hard for this." Or, "We're planning for..." whatever, she was able to see this is the fruits, and like, "Oh, that's why you're doing it." Now, if you notice, my wife's, every Funnel Hacking Live, front row. She doesn't understand a word we're saying, but she's there, she's paying attention, because she's like, "Look at all the people, and their lives are changing, and impacting." And now, it's different, where when I got to do work, work late nights, or whatever, she sees the vision, and she's on board with it. So it makes so much easier. The other secret I learned is if I tell her, if it's like 05:00 at night, I'm like, "Crap, I got to stay late tonight." And I call her at 05:00 at night, nothing good can come from that. It's better if you just go home, right? If I know Wednesday night, I'm going to be working late, I tell her Monday. Like, "Hey, Wednesday night, there's a good chance I'm going to be late." And then, if I tell her that, she's totally cool with it, right? But you don't tell them the day of. It'll destroy your marriage more than anything. Matt: That's good wisdom. Russell: The other secret, this secret don't put on camera, I don't want my wife to... Matt: Is that right? Russell: Yeah, if I have any inclination that people are coming to town, or something's happening, I always like, "Just so you know, next week, Matt and Caleb are coming to town. There's a good shot we might go to dinner at night, just so you're fully aware." And she's like, "Cool." And then, it's fine. The other secret, this is the real one. So don't share this outside this room. Speaker 4: This is the off camera one. Russell: Yeah. So especially after... For my wife and I... So we started having kids, the same time I started this business, right? And so, I'm traveling, I'm going to events. And she's at home with the kids. And so, we never traveled before, so I'm going on these vacations, I'm meeting these cool people, I'm in hotel rooms. So every night, I'm getting back, and I'm like, "Oh my gosh." And I'm like, "Okay, I met so and so, and then..." all these things I'm so excited, so pumped about these things. And I'm telling her about stuff, and she's at home with twin babies, miserable, tired, horrible, feet hurt, body hurt. And I'm out having the time of my life. Matt: Yeah. Russell: And I'm thinking she's going to be pumped for me, right? Matt: Right. Russell: No. And for probably a year or so, I was just like... And then, one day, I remember I'm at some event, and I get cornered by people. And then, introverted Russell's like... anxiety, and it was horrible. And somebody cornered me in the bathroom, and asking me questions while I'm peeing. And it wasn't even... At least, sometimes, most of the time, they fake pee next to you, so at least it's not awkward. He was sitting next to me, watching me pee. I'm like, "Can you at least fake pee?" And so, anyway... It was so bad. And I got home that night, and I call her on the phone, and I was just like, "It was horrible." I went off about how horrible it was, and I was miserable. And she's like, "Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry." But then, she was cool. It was awesome. And I was like, "I didn't get in trouble." And so, the next time I went out, I got home that night, call her, I was like, "Oh, it was horrible. My feet hurt, my back hurts." Anyway, and I've told so many people this, entrepreneurs and friends, who do that, and they shift... Because they don't want to hear you're having this... Anyway, is this truly good or not? I don't know. It saved my marriage. Matt: Is it true? Russell: Literally saved my marriage, and it saved so many of my friends, who… so many of friends, who had the same thing. They want to hear the stories, but not in the moment. When you come back home later, you tell the stories, they love it. But in the moment, when they're miserable, and you're having fun, it is not... First time with Tony Robbins, when I walked on fire, I call her that night, I'm like, "I just walked on fire. Waaa!" And I hear the kids screaming in the background, and she was angry. And I was like, "Huh." And I'm like, "Cool, I'm sending you to walk on fire next month." I sent her to walk on fire, and then she was on fire. But it was like... Caleb: She's like, "No." Russell: Later, she wants to hear, but not in the moment, because it's just like... Anyway, so- Rob: Yeah. Russell: ...that was- Rob: Makes sense. Russell: ...life changing for... Anyway, so... And then, the other thing is just you have to understand what your values are. I learned this from Tom Bilyeu at a level that was fascinating, recently. But- Caleb: Who was that? Russell: Tom Bilyeu, he runs Impact Theory. Caleb: Oh, okay. Rob: Impact Theory. Caleb: Gotcha. Russell: But he writes out his values, but he prioritizes them. So his number one value is his wife, number two... And he has the values written out. And so, when a conflict comes in place, or he gets asked to speak at a huge event, speak for the Queen of England, or whatever, but it's the same weekend as his wife wants something. He's like, "My wife trumps the value... 100%, she trumps it. So the answer's no, and it's not hard for me to say no." Caleb: Wow. Russell: And so, it's figuring it out for yourself. What are your values? Personally, with your family, the wife, everything like that. And you define them, and then it's like there's no question. That's what hard, is when you value something here, and your spouse values something differently, and the conflict of that is what causes the fights, right? But if you get on the same page, like, "Look, this is number one, two..." You have these things, then it makes it easier to navigate those things, because it's like, "No, I understand this is one of the values we have together, as a couple, you should go do that thing." Or whatever the thing might be. So anyway... Caleb: That's awesome. Russell: But marriage is one of the hardest things, but one of the most rewarding things, at the same time. So it's worth it, but it's a ride. Go through demand-relationship, man. That's- Rob: That's a great point. Russell: ...so good. Speaker 4: I got a question. Rob: Yeah, go ahead. Speaker 4: So two big things that I heard from you, amongst your story, you were talking this positivity. When you were doing great at something, or you learned something, you're so excited about it, you're so positive, but then there's this other part of you that's very vulnerable. Russell: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Speaker 4: And so, you experience anxiety, or you have challenging days, or you're discouraged. How do you find the balance between those, of being vulnerable and being honest with how you're feeling, versus, "Hey, this is a challenge. I'm an entrepreneur, I can overcome this."? Matt: Right. Speaker 4: What's the balance? Russell: Yeah. That's good. One of the... Everyone who's met Tony has a story about how Tony's changed their life. But one of the biggest things that I... There's three or four things that I got from Tony, the very first time I went to his event and I heard him speak, that had a huge impact on me. One of the biggest ones was state control, understanding that. Have you ever heard him talk about the triad and things like that? Speaker 4: Yeah. Russell: I'd never heard that before, and I remember watching him do these things on people in the audience. And it was fascinating. He took a lady, who was... He picked somebody in the audience who was suicidal, and he's like... It was the weirdest thing. And he talked about the triad, right? There's three things that change your state, right? There's your language, there's your focus, and there's your physiology, right? So he takes someone, he's like, "I need someone who's suicidal." He takes this beautiful girl. I remember, we were up in Toronto, so then he takes this girl, and he's like, "I need you to get depressed. Not a little bit depressed, clinically suicidal." She's like, "What?" He's like, "Just get there in your mind. Whatever it takes, get dark." And you see her state change, right? And he keeps pushing her, and keep pushing her, and he gets her to this point. And anyway, it's crazy I'm watching this. And I'm kind of freaking out, because I'm watching him do this to this girl, getting her to a point... And soon, she's bawling her eyes out and everything. And he's like, "You got to get deeper. Get darker. More miserable." All this stuff. And you see him change this girl's state. And all of a sudden it stopped. And finally, it seemed like forever, finally he stops and he's like, "Everyone look at her. Watch her. Look at this." He's like, "What do you notice? What's her physiology?" You see her body, you see tears, and all this stuff. And you see her just broken. And then, he's like, "What do you say?" And he goes through the whole triad with her. And he shows that. And he's like, "Now I'm going to show you how quickly you can shift this." To the point where it's like... Anyway, it was crazy. And then, he shifts it, and he starts taking her back through, shifting the physiology, shifting her shoulders, shifting everything, shifting her meanings, shifting focus, shifting what she's saying. And he gets this girl, within three or four minutes, to literal ecstasy, it was crazy watching this. And you see her, where she's laughing... the opposite side of it. And I'd never seen somebody like that, the flip of emotions, how easy it was, by just shifting these three things in her. And it had such a profound impact on me. Caleb: Is there video of that? Russell: Not maybe the one I saw, but he does it at every UPW, he does it... I'm sure there's YouTube videos of it, as well. But if you type the triad, I think he calls it the triad or state control, things like that, you see it happen. But I saw that, and I was just like, "Oh my gosh, I never realized that we had control over that. I thought my feelings were my feelings." Like, "Here's your feeling." Like, "Okay, crap, this is the feeling I have today." And after experiencing that, I was like, "I could actually change this." I didn't know that. And it's interesting because I think sometimes when we're depressed, or we're sad, or we have these things, I think some of us like it. I've had times before, I don't want to be happy. I'm enjoying feeling miserable. And sometimes, I sit in there because I enjoy, because we do, it's weird. It's messed up. But I felt that. I'm like, "I could change this but I don't want to." But other times, I'm like, "I have to change it." Now that I've learned that. It's crazy you can shift your state, and you can do that and show up the way you need to be. And one practical example of how I use it a lot is, when I get home at the end of the night... And this kind of comes back to your question, I think, earlier, too. How do you do all the things? And I told you this yesterday. One of the things that I got the biggest, from being around Tony Robbins, the most impressive thing about him is when... Tony's got... As busy as any of us are, take that times 10, and that's Tony, right? He's the most busy person ever. But if you have a chance, a brief moment with Tony, where he's going to say a million things, and you have a second with him, he is the most present person I've ever met. The world dissolves around it, and it's just him and you, and there's nothing else. You can tell. And he's just zoned in on you, and it's this magical experience. And as soon as it's done, he's just gone, he's on the next thing. But that moment, he's hyper-present. And so, for me, when I'm doing things, it's like... Like, when I get home at night, at the end of the day, park my car, I walk in, and there's the door before I come into the house. And sometimes, I'm anxious, I'm thinking about work, and thinking about stuff, I'm stressed out, the FBI sent me a letter today, Taylor Swift suing me, whatever the thing is. And I'm like, "Ah." And then, I'm like, "I'm going to walk through that door, and I can't do anything about it now. My kids are there, my wife's there." And it's just like, "Okay, I got to change my state." And right there, before I walk through the door, I change my state. Get in the spot, and then like, "Okay, here we go." And I walk through the door, and it's like then I'm dad. And it's different, right? And so, I think it's learning those things. Because it's not... Your feelings are weird, they're going to show up in one way or the other, but the fact that you can control them, which I didn't understand or know how. But as soon as I realized that, it's just like, "I don't have to be sad, or miserable, or anxious, or whatever. I can actually change those things in a moment, if I understand how." And that was one of the greatest gifts Tony gave me, was just understanding how to do that, and seeing it in practical application with somebody. And now, it's like I can do it myself, any time I need to, if I need to. Matt: How do you act around Tony Robbins? Especially from the beginning to now, because you guys are close now. He probably looks at you like I look at a lot of these guys, that are Caleb's friends. I look at them like nephews, these are like... I'd do anything for them. And I know that... I can see that's how Tony starting to look at you. But take us from the very first time, because he didn't he have you come to an event, ask you a bunch of questions, take notes, and then just leave you hanging, or something like that. Tell the story, real quick. Russell: Oh, man. Tony's so intense. I still get scared to... It's still like, "Ah." Anyway, every time I see him, it's just like... I don't know, it's weird. His presence is- Matt: He still makes you nervous. Russell: Oh, yeah, for sure. But the very first time... So yeah, it was... I don't know, it was probably 04:00 in the morning. I don't even know. The shorter version of the long story is they asked me to come meet him in Toronto, at UPW, same event as this whole experience happened. So I went up there, and supposed to meet him one day, and it shifts to the next day. And if you ever work with Tony, just know if he tells you he's meeting you at 10:00, it could be like four days later you actually meet. You're on Tony time. Yeah, it's- Matt: That's just how it is. Russell: It's crazy, yeah. Just waiting. But it's always worth it, so you just wait and be grateful when it happens. But anyway, so we finally get to the point where we meet, and I have to drive 45 minutes. This is pre-Uber, so I'm in a taxi to some weird hotel. And we get there, and then me and his assistant stand outside for another hour, waiting in the lobby. He kept looking at his phone, nervously, like, "Ah." He's like, "Okay, Mr. Robbins' ready to meet you. Let's go." So we run up the stairs, we go to this thing, we walk in this room, and there's- Matt: And this is the first time you ever- Russell: ...body guards everywhere. First time I ever met him, yeah. Yeah, he's like a giant, comes and gives me a huge hug. And we sit down, and he's like, "You hungry?" I'm like, "Yeah." And he was vegetarian at the time, so he's like, "Get Russell some food." And brought me out this amazing plate of... I don't even know what it was. But it was... I was like, "If I could eat like this is every night, I'd be vegetarian." Because it was amazing. It was- Caleb: It was? Russell: ...insane. And then, got his tape recorder out, he's like, "You okay if we record this?" I'm like, "Yeah." So he clicks record, picks out a big journal, he's like, "You're Mormon, right?" I'm like, "Yeah." He's like, "I love the Mormon people. When I was eight years old, I went to a Mormon church and they told me to keep a journal. I've kept a journal ever since. Do you mind if I take notes while we talk?" Matt: Wow. Russell: I'm like, "Eh, okay." So he's recording, taking notes, and then he drilled me for an hour. Just like do, do, do. Just like- Speaker 4: And how long ago was this? Russell: This is 13, 14 years ago. Speaker 4: Okay. Russell: Anyway, it was intense. And I can't remember what I was saying, I was so scared, I'm second-guessing everything I've said. And then, he's asking me numbers and stats, because we were trying to do this deal with him. And it was so scary. Matt: So he was just drilling you with questions, and just trying to- Russell: Oh, like crazy, yeah. I'm trying to just... Yeah, dude. Anyway, it was crazy. And then, he had to go back to UPW to speak again, so he's like, "You want to drive with me?" So I'm like, "Yeah." So go down, and jump in his Escalade together, we're in the back seat, and we're driving. And it's just crazy. And I remember he asked me a question about this one... I won't say the person's name because the story isn't positive for the person. But he asked, he's like, "What do you think about so and so?" I'm like, "Oh, that person's really cool and really talented." He's like, "He's a very significant..." and he just talked about six human needs, earlier that day, so I was very aware of here's what the needs are, right? And he's like, "Yeah, I don't think I'd ever work with him, because he's very significance driven." And I was like, "Oh, that make sense." And all of a sudden, I was like, "Ah, Tony is reading my soul, right now." I was like, "What drives me? I don't even know what drives me. Does he know what drives me?" Like, "Oh my gosh, am I significance driven?" I'm freaking out, like, "Ah." And all I remember is panicking, thinking, "He knows more about me than I know about me, at this point." And all these things, I'm freaking out, we're driving in his Escalade. And we get to the thing, and he's like, "I got to go inside. Thank you so much, brother. I love you." Jumps out the car, shuts the door. I'm sitting in the Escalade, like, "What just happened?" Matt: It was that fast. Russell: It was insane, yeah. Matt: It was just like- Russell: And then, the driver's like, "Do you want to get out here? Do you want me to drive you somewhere?" Like, "I don't even know where we are." We're in Toronto somewhere, that's all I know. And so, it was just the craziest experience. And then, I don't hear from him for four or five months, nothing. And I'm like- Matt: What were you thinking? Did you think- Russell: I was like, "He must've hated me. Maybe I failed the test. Am I significance driven?" I'm freaking out about all the things. And then, one day, I get this random... It was actually my wife and I, we were celebrating our anniversary, so we were at... It was a StomperNet event, but we took her, it was this cool thing. And she'd just gone to UPW. I sent her like three months later. So she walked on fire, and she was like... And Tony talks about Fiji there, so she was like, "Someday we should go to Fiji." And then, we get this call from Tony, and it was like, "Hey..." Or it was Tony's assistant. Like, "Hey, Tony wants to know if you want to speak at Business Mastery in Fiji, in two weeks." I was like, "Tony Robbins..." I started saying it out loud so Collette could hear me. "Tony Robbins wants me to speak in Fiji, in two weeks?" And Collette, my cute little wife, starts jumping on the bed, like, "Say yes! Say yes!" Caleb: Aw! Russell: And I was like, "Yes, yes, yes. Of course, we will." And then, we're like, we've got three kids that are all toddlers at this time, and like, "Can we bring kids?" They're like, "There's no kids allowed on the resort." I'm like, "We've got three little kids." He's like, "Ah, all right. We'll figure it out." So I hang up, and we're like, "We don't have passports for the kids, we don't have anything." So anyway, it was chaos, we're freaking out. We ended up getting them there, they literally built a fence around our... The Bula house, where's Dan at? The Bula house we were in. They built a whole fence around, so our kids wouldn't die because- Caleb: Did they really? Russell: ...there's cliffs off the back. Yeah, it was crazy. And then, I'm speaking to this room, and there's less than 100 people. I'm speaking, and Tony's sitting in the back of this room, I'm like- Matt: While you're speaking. Russell: ..."I thought he was not going to be here. This is really scary." Yeah. And he's paying attention the whole time. Matt: Does it make you more nervous? Russell: He introduced me, he brought me on stage, which was like... I still have the footage of that, it's really cool. He brought me on stage, which was crazy. And then, I remember, because in the thing we're talking about lead generation, I was talking about squeeze pages. And afterwards, he got on. He comes up afterwards, he's like, "Yeah, I heard squeeze pages don't work anymore. Is that true, Russell?" He's like, "People say they're kind of dead, they don't work anymore." And this is, again, 12 years ago. And I was like, "Who told you that? They totally still work." Which is funny, because we still use them today. But he was just like, "Somebody had told me they don't work anymore." And I was like, "They..." anyway, "They work, I promise." But anyway, and then I don't hear from him for five years, and then something else happens. It's just weird, these long extended periods of time. But then, every time, every moment, I tried... Five years later, it was a call, it was like, "Hey, Tony's doing this thing. He wants your opinion on it." So I spent like two or three hours with his team, consulting, giving feedback, as much ideas as I could. And like, "Cool, thanks." And then, nothing for two years, and then something else, and then... Little things keep happening, and happening, and can do more and more together. And then- Matt: What did you learn from that? You think that's just- Russell: A couple things I've learned. Number one, I'm sure you guys get this a lot, people who want to work with you, they show up and the first thing they show up with is, "All right, I got an idea how we can make a bunch of money together." Right? They always come, and want to figure out how they can take from you. And I was so scared, and grateful, I didn't ever ask Tony for anything. The first time I asked Tony for anything ever was 12 into our relationship, after Expert Secrets book was done. I had just paid him $250,000 to speak on our stage, and just finished the interview promoting his book. And I was like, "Hey, I wrote a new book. Do you want one?" Matt: Wow. Russell: And he's like, "Oh." And he took it. I'm like, "Cool." And then, a week later, I'm like, "Ah, will you interview me on Facebook with this?" He's like, "Sure." And then, he did, and that video got three and a half million views on it. It was crazy, coolest thing ever. But it was 12 years before I asked him for anything. And I had- Matt: Wow. Russell: ...served him at as many different points as I can. I think the biggest lesson from that is that... And I get it all the time, people come to me and it's like they're trying to ask and take. It's just like... I get it, and it makes sense. But it's just like, "This game's not a short game. If you do it right, it's your life. This is your life mission." Right? Matt: Yeah, that's good. Russell: And so it's just understanding you're planting seeds, and you're serving, and if you do that, eventually good things will happen. And something may never happen with Tony, and that's cool. I do stuff for a lot of people, and nothing ever good ever comes from it. But hopefully something does. Sometimes it's indirect, sometimes it's not, sometimes it's just karma, or whatever you believe in. But if you just always go with the intent to serve, not to like, "What's in it for me?" It just changes everything. And then, if you do that, if you lead with how to serve, stuff comes back to you. But if you lead with trying to get stuff, it just doesn't work. The energy's different in the whole encounter. You know what I mean? Matt: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Russell: So I'm sure you guys have felt that with people, when they first come to you, and it's just like, "Ah." Matt: So is there a point where you... You went to his house. Russell: That was cool. The thing I can say is it was really cool, because most times when I'm with Tony, you're around people. In Fiji, it was fun seeing him, because he's more personal and stuff like that. But it was really special in his home, because it was him and his wife, and it was cool. It was fun just seeing him as him, like as a kid. And even my wife, like, "He seems like a kid here." He was so excited, and showing us his stuff, and all the things. Matt: Ah, well, guys, listen. Russell: Anyway- Matt: A few more questions, because I mean, man, you've been at it for almost two hours, dude. I can go all night, and I know he could. But Brea Morrison, give it up for her for letting us be here. Thank you so much.

My thoughts as I start work on my new book. On this episode Russell talks about the process he is currently in to write his Clickfunnels startup story. Here are some of the awesome things you’ll hear in today’s episode: Find out how long this book idea has been in the works, and what kinds of things they are doing to gather information. Hear a timeline of all the main events that will documented in the new book. And find out why Russell believes this book is his way of leaving a legacy on earth when he’s no longer a part of it. So listen here to this awesome timeline of the Clickfunnels startup story. ---Transcript--- Hey what’s up everybody? This is Russell Brunson, welcome back to the Marketing Secrets podcast. Today I’m going to take you on a trip down memory lane. Alright so now that the Traffic Secrets book is done and everything is done and I swore I would never write a book again, the first thing my brain wants to do is write the next book. So here we go. Some of you guys have heard me talk about the fact that I bought the domain bootstrap.com and my goal was to tell the story of how Clickfunnels got bootstrapped. So instead of being a how-to book like all the secrets trilogy has been, this is going to be the story of what we did and how we did it. Anyway, I’m really excited for it, so I thought to start this project, obviously when I rewrote the Expert Secrets book I geeked out on A Hero’s Two Journeys and what it all looks like and mapping it out and I totally want to sit down and think, I want to take the Hero’s Two Journeys, and take the Clickfunnels storyline and see if we can sync it with all the different parts, to see how close we can match the actual hero’s two journeys. So that’s going to be a fun part of the process, but I’m not ready for that yet. So the first thing was like, I need to start building out a timeline to kind of see how this whole things started and where we went and everything. So I started a new trello board. And I basically started, if any of you have used Trello before, there’s different columns right. So I had a column for each year, and then Melanie’s working with me to go through and inside of each column is to make a card for all the major milestones like, “Oh we did Funnel Hacking Live. Oh, we wrote a book. Oh, we went to this event. Oh, we did that. Oh, we hit this…” just so we have a timeline of all the things that happened year by year. So we started in, let’s see, we started 2014 because that’s when we launched Clickfunnels. I’m like, well it started before that though because in 2013 we started building Clickfunnels, but if you go back to 2011 when I met Todd. And we kept going back, so now we’ve got the timeline all the way back to basically 2009. Anyway, it’s going to take me and Melanie probably the next couple of months to get this whole thing built out. But it’s kind of crazy. I started this whole, basically the first year I’m starting this is 2009. 2009 is when I met Dylan who is one of the original cofounders of Clickfunnels, and the long story is that early that year I got a random call from someone on Tony Robbins’ team who said he wanted to meet me. So then two weeks later I was in Toronto at UPW, which I need to add this to the card. At UPW I met Tony, and then I left and didn’t hear from him again. And then August 11, the day after my anniversary, I think it was August 10th we heard about it, but August 10 or 11 I was speaking at Stompernet and I got a call from Tony’s assistant asking if I wanted to speak in Fiji. And then you fast forward to two weeks later, August 29 I’m in Fiji with Tony Robbins. While I’m in Fiji I’m sitting there and I see this guy who is like the best designer I’ve ever seen.  And I asked a bunch of people, “Who is this guy?” his name is Dylan Jones, so I email Dylan Jones. And while I was in Namale in Fiji, I got an email back from Dylan saying, “Hey what’s up? What can you do for me?” So we did a couple of projects. And then in October of that month, he designed the user interface for a site called clickdotcom.com which was the original Clickfunnels. It never came to light, but we designed every single page. It’s crazy to look at the designs now, it’s like, this is so similar to what Clickfunnels ended up becoming, just in 2009. So this is 5 years before we actually launched Clickfunnels, which is crazy. So that’s how I met Dylan. And then, so that was 2009, then 2010 is when I had my big company crash and I laid off 90 people overnight and everything fell apart and I was like, “This is the worst thing in the world. This is horrible.” And then on the back side of the crash, 2011 is when I down to my last dollar I was like, I need to figure out a way to shift our company and I saw that on flippa.com there was somebody championsound.com which was an email/text message auto-responder for bands. I’m like, “This the future, I’m going to buy this thing.” So I bought championsound with money we didn’t have, and then we found out it coded in Ruby on rails, and we didn’t have Ruby on rails programmers or servers or anything. And I tried to hire a bunch of people, it didn’t work. So after we lost all that money, I was about to delete the site, in fact, I think I emailed, I’ll have to go back to my emails and see, but I think I emailed someone on my team, like, “Let’s just turn this off. It’s not going to work.” And then I had this impression of like, “Go email your list and see if there’s anybody on your list who knows Ruby on rails.” So I email my list, get a response back from, enter Todd Dickerson. Todd Dickerson emailed back and we started working together. And for the entire year of 2011 and 2012 we worked on projects together. Todd didn’t get paid until, I don’t even know when. He didn’t get paid at first, for like the first year, and the second year we started paying him a little bit. And then 2013 is when we started building Clickfunnels. I’m excited to go back in the timeline to find all of the actual, like when he flew into Boise, the email he sent me, all the stuff, us brainstorming. I’m going to find those assets and plug them in here. So 2013 was the year of us building Clickfunnels. Us, I say us. I have no skills. It was the year of Todd building Clickfunnels and me being excited by it. And then 2014 we did the initial beta launch in the summer while I was at my family vacation at Bear Lake. Then we came back and October 25th is when I spoke at Mike Fillsame’s event and did the very first ever Funnel Hacks presentation. And then November 7th was the first day I did a webinar. So I did 3 webinars on November 7th. And then it was off to the races. So anyway, it was kind of fun finding these landmarks and putting them into this timeline of all the events that happened. So what we’re going to do is try and go back through email, calendars, memory and as much as we can to try and build out as big of a timeline as possible, of all the different events. And then my plan is I’m going to fly each of the people that were involved, so like Dylan and Todd and Brent and Dave and Ryan and everybody who’s been involved in Clickfunnels from the beginning, fly them out here and then interview them about each step in the thing. Like, “How were you feeling when this happened and this happened?” and just getting them all to tell their stories from their point of view, because everyone’s got such different unique points of view and the direction they came into this. So we’re trying to build the timeline out first so I can go intelligently interview people and spend 5 or 6 hours and go through each thing like, ‘What was happening at this point? What were you thinking, how were you feeling, what was happening at your home, what was happening in your life?” and just getting really, really deep. And so that way when it’s done I will have interviews with like 30 or 40 people who are a big part of the initial Clickfunnels story. And then we’ll have all the video, the audio. We’ll have the timeline, we’ll have all the assets from the timeline, all the emails, all the pictures, all the videos, all the different assets we’ve created throughout this whole time, and then from there I’ll take all that and start writing the Bootstrap book. Ah, so exciting. And hopefully at that point I’ll be able to look at the timeline of events and see does this match the hero’s two journeys? How can we make it match and fit into this thing? I don’t want to write just a story to tell a story. I want to make sure it’s a story that fits. And I think you know, it’s been fun as I’ve, I don’t think we have an ending yet to the story. That’s the hard part, I don’t have an ending to the story. It’s just like, “And then we were here…. Bootstrap part two coming soon.” We don’t have an ending to the story yet, but it’s just kind of fun to put all the pieces together. And the ups and the downs, the highs and the lows, the stress and the excitement, and the anxiety and the stress, and the happiness and the victories. It’s going to be so much fun to try to tell the story in a way that will help people understand the Clickfunnels story and how it came to be. And I hope in the process you’ll learn a lot. You’ll learn about what we tried, what worked, what didn’t work. But again, it’s not going to be a how-to book, it’s going to be more of a telling the story, and the journey, and all that kind of stuff. All the how-to stuff is in the Secrets’ books. You’ve got enough secrets over there, you’re good. Now you just gotta hear the story, the behind the scenes, the stuff that they don’t tell you, they won’t tell you on TV right. Anyway, so that’s my fun project I’m working on right now. Anyway, I hope that you guys have a project. I think one of our missions here in this world for all of us is to go and learn a bunch of things, and spend time and trial and error in learning something. And then to take what you’ve learned and compile it in a way that you can pass it on to people after you. To your kids, or your students, or your whatever, your posterity. You know, I think all of us come to earth and our goal is to try to make the earth a better place when we leave, so how do you do that? You come on earth and you assimilate all these things and you package it in a way that lives beyond yourself. And that’s why we do business right, that’s why we write books, that’s why we create courses, that’s why we teach, that’s why we make podcasts, why we make videos. It’s with the hope that the stuff we created and the stuff that we discovered can live on beyond ourselves. So for me this is a really fun thing to be able to take this time and try to retell the story. You know, I think, how cool would it be, I guess a lot of founders have told their story, but how cool would it be for more companies to hear the actual, all the pieces and the timeline and the people and how it all worked and how it worked together. Anyway, I’m excited for it. This book is coming to you the year 2030, so I got a decade to write it. So don’t be like, ‘Russell, when’s the book coming out?” This is not going to be a short project. In fact, I’m not even going to pitch it to a publisher until it’s done. Because with the Traffic Secrets book a publisher, I don’t know if I told you this, Hay House, I pitched it to Hay House and they loved it, so we signed a contract, and I’m not a contract guy so I didn’t read it, I didn’t look at it. Then the next week in the mail we got a check, I’m like, “What’s this?” They’re like, “This is your royalty check.” I’m like, “I get a royalty check? What? This is like what real authors get, this is crazy.” And I’m like, “What do I do with it?” and he’s like, “Well most people take the year off and then write a book.” I was like, “Oh, huh. That sounds nice, I can imagine that, but that would be amazing.” And so I took the check, cashed it and felt good about myself and then the next day I get an email with the timeline, “The book has to be done by this date, we have to publish it…” all this stuff. And because they had paid me, I felt so obligated and I had this increased level of stress and anxiety of like, “You have ot have it done by this date because we gave you money.” I was like, I wanted to give the money back like, “Here you go, I don’t want your money. Your money is stressing me out. Just let me write my book in peace.” So this one is going to be definitely different. There’s no timeline attached, there’s no money attached, there’s no nothing until it’s done. Then we’ll go shop it out. A couple things I want to do, do you guys think this would be cool? So with all these different landmarks and timelines, we tried to put all the images and videos, and the stuff that we’ve captured, all these, you know along the way we’ve captured so many amazing things. How cool would it be inside this book, you could see a picture of it, let’s say, but let’s say there’s a video, if there’s a QR code and you hold your phone over and boom it pops and you watch the video of the thing that I’m telling you about, the experience. Any of the times we’ve captured or caught any of those things, like plugging them in. That would be so cool. Anyway, that’s kind of the gameplan, who knows. We’ll see what happens. But anyway, I’m pumped, I’m excited, hopefully you guys are excited about some project right now, something you’re creating that will tell your story beyond your time here on this earth. So that’s how you build a legacy right, that’s how you take all these life experiences and leave them for the next generation, for the next set of people. So this, literally it was 11 years ago that I met Dylan, so this has all happened in the last decade, the last 10 years. It was 5 or 6 years ahead of time of trying a bunch of stuff, ups and downs, and you know meeting Dylan on the very end of the up in 2009, and then boom, 2010 was a crash, and then it’s been literally a decade from the crash until now. And anyway, and now we’re in this other crash. 2010 crash was the Russell crash, where my business crashed. Now we’re in the Corona crash which is a little bit different. Anyway, alright, that’s all I got. I’m going to go back to work. Appreciate you guys all, thank you so much for everything. And I hope you guys are having an amazing day. If you got any value from this, please take a picture of it, post it on Facebook or Instagram and tag me on it, I’d love to hear from you. And with that said, I will talk to you all soon. Bye everybody. 

Copywriter Colin Theriot joins Rob and Kira for the 104th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Colin is well known as the leader of the Cult of Copy (as well as four or five other related Facebook groups). He often jumps into the club to answer questions or comment on something, and we thought it was about time to talk shop with him. In our discussion, we covered: •  how Colin became a copywriter •  why he started The Cult of Copy •  the short cut to getting people to know who you are •  how beginning copywriters can create a copy learning experience •  the most important thing for beginners to learn (this skill is portable) •  his philosophy for running more than one Facebook group •  why he offers a “jobs” group and why you probably shouldn’t use it •  the five Vs of the Viking Velociraptor Formula

Josh, StomperNet, 2016 Plans 12-22-15 by Jerry West

How to Get Out of Overwhelm Melanie Benson Strick, known as America’s Leading Small Business Optimizer, has a gift for guiding fast-paced, overwhelmed, driven entrepreneurs to thrive in their small business. With over 13 years mentoring thought leaders and big thinking entrepreneurs, Melanie is a liberator – uncovering costly breakdowns and de-railers while re-energizing profits– ultimately freeing the entrepreneur to do more of what they do best. Melanie has been on faculty with StomperNet as their delegation expert, speaks on stages across the globe, is co-author of Entrepreneur.com’s Start Up Guide to Starting an Information Marketing Business and has her success tips featured in magazines such as American Express OPEN Forum, Woman’s Day and the LA Times. Melanie is a proud lifestyle enthusiast and spends her free time in search of the best spas and beaches in the world.

There’s a secret abundance code lying dormant inside each of us. Melanie Benson Strick, America’s Leading Authority on Optimum Performance, calls it your MoneyDNA. In this enlightening episode, Melanie demystifies the often misunderstood relationship between your work ethic, your mindset and your success and reveals her easy, yet powerful system, to transform you into a prosperity magnet.Melanie Benson Strick, known as America’s Leading Small Business Optimizer, has a gift for guiding fast-paced, overwhelmed, driven entrepreneurs to thrive in their small business. With over 13 years mentoring thought leaders and big thinking entrepreneurs, Melanie is a liberator – uncovering costly breakdowns and de-railers while re-energizing profits– ultimately freeing the entrepreneur to do more of what they do best.Melanie has been on faculty with StomperNet as their delegation expert, spoke on stages across the globe, is co-author of Entrepreneur.com’s Start Up Guide to Starting an Information Marketing Business and has her success tips featured in magazines such as American Express OPEN Forum, Woman’s Day and the LA Times. Melanie is a proud lifestyle enthusiast and spends her free time in search of the best spas and beaches in the world. You can learn more about Melanie and her amazing programs at:www.money-dna.com or www.successconnections.com

There’s a secret abundance code lying dormant inside each of us. Melanie Benson Strick, America’s Leading Authority on Optimum Performance, calls it your MoneyDNA. In this enlightening episode, Melanie demystifies the often misunderstood relationship between your work ethic, your mindset and your success and reveals her easy, yet powerful system, to transform you into a prosperity magnet.Melanie Benson Strick, known as America’s Leading Small Business Optimizer, has a gift for guiding fast-paced, overwhelmed, driven entrepreneurs to thrive in their small business. With over 13 years mentoring thought leaders and big thinking entrepreneurs, Melanie is a liberator – uncovering costly breakdowns and de-railers while re-energizing profits– ultimately freeing the entrepreneur to do more of what they do best.Melanie has been on faculty with StomperNet as their delegation expert, spoke on stages across the globe, is co-author of Entrepreneur.com’s Start Up Guide to Starting an Information Marketing Business and has her success tips featured in magazines such as American Express OPEN Forum, Woman’s Day and the LA Times. Melanie is a proud lifestyle enthusiast and spends her free time in search of the best spas and beaches in the world. You can learn more about Melanie and her amazing programs at:www.money-dna.com or www.successconnections.com

Melanie Benson Strick, known as America’s Leading Small Business Optimizer, has a gift for guiding fast-paced, overwhelmed, driven entrepreneurs to thrive in their small business. With over 13 years mentoring thought leaders and creative entrepreneurs, Melanie is a revenue strategist – uncovering costly breakdowns and de-railers while re-energizing profits– ultimately freeing the entrepreneur to do more of what they do best.  Melanie has been on faculty with StomperNet as their delegation expert, spoke on stages across the globe, is co-author of Entrepreneur.com’s Start Up Guide to Starting an Information Marketing Business and has her success tips featured in magazines such as American Express OPEN Forum, Woman’s Day, Parenting Magazine, University of Phoenix Alumni Magazine and the LA Times. Melanie is a proud lifestyle enthusiast and spends her free time in search of the best spas and beaches in the world. How to Get 10 Times More Done, Make a Bigger Impact and Explode Your Profits With An Dream Team (No Matter What Level of Success You Currently Have!) A simple formula for increasing your cash flow instantly when you outsource specific tasks in a certain order (hint: it’s not the tasks 90% of entrepreneurs WANT to get rid of!) An easy-to-follow formula that will help you determine what to delegate and what to keep so you stay focused on your genius factors The three deadly mistakes entrepreneurs make when delegating and how to avoid making them. The million dollar question you MUST ask yourself before you hire anyone (hint: it helps you hire the right people, for the right reasons so you get the right results!) Please join us in the chat room to ask questions.

The post Episode #16 – The Preframe That Closes appeared first on DotComSecrets.com Blog - Weird Marketing Experiments That Increase Traffic, Conversions and Sales.... On this episode, Russell discusses how to properly use preframing in every step of your online sales sequence. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey everybody, this is Russell Brunson. Welcome to the Marketing in Your Car podcast. I hope you guys are doing awesome today. I actually just got out of the gym and I'm driving back to the office and had something really exciting happen today that I wanted to share with everybody, actually, a bunch of exciting things. First off, we had almost 100 of you guys comment on the podcast yesterday which is exciting because I asked everyone to give some feedback. I appreciate it. Keep the good comments coming. It's fun, it's exciting, and hopefully we'll get more people to learn about our podcast because I'm sharing all this cool stuff and we should share it with everyone. I want to see everybody's businesses grow. That's my passion in life. With that said, if anyone has been studying my stuff for awhile, I did a really cool talk at StomperNet four or five years ago. I did another one kind of similar at Dan Kennedy's event about two years ago, not so much talking about internet marketing but talking about the sales process and the psychology behind it. There's something that happened in our business today that was really exciting that re-reminded me of that. If you guys saw that presentation, and if you go to YouTube I think, at least Google, if you type in “Russell Brunson StomperNet presentation,” you can hear the whole 90 minute presentation. I was talking about just all the different things that happened, the lifeline of your customer. Somebody comes to your website and what website do they come through to get to your website? When they're there, what do they see? What's the next step, and the next step? I talked about all the pieces that you need to have in place to maximize your customer value. One of the big things I talked about was the concept that if you've ever studied NLP before, neuro-linguistic programming, you learn about a topic called framing which is basically the frame that somebody enters a situation will have a huge determining factor on the response they have on the next site, the next page. For example, if I'm going to frame you to my friends, introduce you to my friend, I'll introduce you through a frame, “Hey, this is Joe. He's a really cool guy. I think you're going to like him.” The frame that I introduced you to my friend through, now he's going to think, “Oh yeah, Joe is a cool guy.” If I say, “Hey, this is Joe, he's a total jerk. He stole money from me. I want to introduce you to him,” that frame is going to be different and their whole experience with you is going to be different. In fact, there's a really cool book. I can see the cover in my head but I can't remember it right now, but in that book, they shared a case study of a teacher that was tested in a college classroom. They had a substitute teacher for the day. Before the substitute teacher came in, the principal or whatever came in and said, “Hey, we have a substitute teacher. Before I introduce him, I'd like you guys to read his bio really quick. Then I'm going to have him come in.” They handed out the bio to all the students in the class, in a class of 900 people or so. The surveys were exactly the same of the bios except for each of them had one word different. Half of the bios said, “Mr. So-and-so is a very warm teacher,” and the other half said, “Mr. So-and-so is a very cold teacher.” That was the only difference between the frame that these guys had to meet the teacher.

On this episode, Russell discusses how to properly use preframing in every step of your online sales sequence. ---Transcript--- Hey everybody, this is Russell Brunson. Welcome to the Marketing in Your Car podcast. I hope you guys are doing awesome today. I actually just got out of the gym and I'm driving back to the office and had something really exciting happen today that I wanted to share with everybody, actually, a bunch of exciting things. First off, we had almost 100 of you guys comment on the podcast yesterday which is exciting because I asked everyone to give some feedback. I appreciate it. Keep the good comments coming. It's fun, it's exciting, and hopefully we'll get more people to learn about our podcast because I'm sharing all this cool stuff and we should share it with everyone. I want to see everybody's businesses grow. That's my passion in life. With that said, if anyone has been studying my stuff for awhile, I did a really cool talk at StomperNet four or five years ago. I did another one kind of similar at Dan Kennedy's event about two years ago, not so much talking about internet marketing but talking about the sales process and the psychology behind it. There's something that happened in our business today that was really exciting that re-reminded me of that. If you guys saw that presentation, and if you go to YouTube I think, at least Google, if you type in “Russell Brunson StomperNet presentation,” you can hear the whole 90 minute presentation. I was talking about just all the different things that happened, the lifeline of your customer. Somebody comes to your website and what website do they come through to get to your website? When they're there, what do they see? What's the next step, and the next step? I talked about all the pieces that you need to have in place to maximize your customer value. One of the big things I talked about was the concept that if you've ever studied NLP before, neuro-linguistic programming, you learn about a topic called framing which is basically the frame that somebody enters a situation will have a huge determining factor on the response they have on the next site, the next page. For example, if I'm going to frame you to my friends, introduce you to my friend, I'll introduce you through a frame, “Hey, this is Joe. He's a really cool guy. I think you're going to like him.” The frame that I introduced you to my friend through, now he's going to think, “Oh yeah, Joe is a cool guy.” If I say, “Hey, this is Joe, he's a total jerk. He stole money from me. I want to introduce you to him,” that frame is going to be different and their whole experience with you is going to be different. In fact, there's a really cool book. I can see the cover in my head but I can't remember it right now, but in that book, they shared a case study of a teacher that was tested in a college classroom. They had a substitute teacher for the day. Before the substitute teacher came in, the principal or whatever came in and said, “Hey, we have a substitute teacher. Before I introduce him, I'd like you guys to read his bio really quick. Then I'm going to have him come in.” They handed out the bio to all the students in the class, in a class of 900 people or so. The surveys were exactly the same of the bios except for each of them had one word different. Half of the bios said, “Mr. So-and-so is a very warm teacher,” and the other half said, “Mr. So-and-so is a very cold teacher.” That was the only difference between the frame that these guys had to meet the teacher. The teacher came in. He gave the entire class, and at the end of it, they surveyed all the students. What was interesting was that, again, all the students heard the exact same lecture, all of them read the exact same bio. The only difference was that half the bios said he was a warm teacher, and half said he was a cold teacher. When they surveyed the students, the students that the paper said he was a warm teacher, the vast majority said, “He was an amazing teacher, he was great, I learned a lot.” The people whose paper said he was a cold teacher didn't like him, thought he was talking down to him, he was a rude person. It was interesting how that little tiny shift of a frame, how much it affected the reality of that class afterwards. I'm always talking about and I always teach and do, when you're sending somebody to your website, what's the frame they're coming through. The ad that they click on is a frame they're going to your website through. If you land them on a review site before they come to your site, that was a frame you were taking them through. There's a lot to do with different frames that you're taking someone through and how it affects the outcome on the other side. We did this test just in the last two or three days. It was really interesting. We have this squeeze page. On the squeeze page, it's kind of like a multi-step squeeze page where they first land on it, and it has a headline and it says, “Step number one, where did you learn about us?” There's radio buttons they can choose, “Did you learn from this source, this source, or this source?” They click on the button. Then boom, it says, “Step number two, give us your email address.” Then step number three said finish. That was the way that this squeeze page worked. Step one, two, three, and step three was finish. The only test we changed was we changed the word finish to “Get Instant Access.” That was the entire test. What was interesting, and I almost got this wrong, we ran the test. What was interesting was that when it said “Finish” at the end, we had 40% bump in opt-ins because the last step is when they actually give you their email address, and then it says, “Click here to finish.” We're like, “Wow, this is a great test. We found out we increased our opt-in rates by 40 percent.” I was even telling my guys, “We should change all of our opt-in buttons that said, ‘Submit here,' to, ‘Click here to finish.'” We were really excited, but then after they opt-in, then we take them to the next page which takes them to a video sales letter where then we sell them the product we were trying to sell them. Then they land on that page. What was interesting was when we looked at the data between the two, we had a 40% increase in people who opted in clicking the finish button, but then we had almost a 40% decrease in sales across the board, dramatically. It actually more than, the sales more than cut in half percentage wise, the people who clicked on finish versus the people that clicked on “Get Instant Access.” You never really know why that works but psychology teaches me, what I believe is that the frame I was taking somebody through with the finish button was saying, “Hey, this process is finished. You're done.” In their mind, it's saying, “Okay, it's complete, I'm finished,” and then off comes this page trying to sell them something, and I've closed that loop. I've closed that gap. Now they're not in a buying position because just that little tiny, just the word on the button closed the gap on their mind which decreased sales by 50% whereas the “Get Instant Access Now,” then took them to a page where the loop was still open, they were trying to see what the next step was, and they were more in a state of mind where they could purchase. It was a very interesting test. Just think about how you guys can apply that into your business. It's all about pre-framing, opening and closing loops, a whole bunch of really cool NLP stuff that I wrap into one little five minute lesson but just think about that, guys, on your sales processes. What are you doing? Are you keeping the loop open? Are you keeping them excited, or are you shutting them off and keeping them from making the sale you want? I remember on a one-time offer before we did a test awhile ago, similar type concept where they purchased the product and a one-time offer came up. It said, “Thank you so much for ordering. Your product is in the mail. By the way, we have this other special offer.” We tested that versus, “Wait, your order is not finished yet. Finish order customization, step one of three.” The “Wait, your order is not over yet, order customization,” that text dramatically thrashed the other one. It's all about keeping that loop open, keeping the frame you're taking someone through in the correct way that keeps them in the buying mood. Anyway, I thought it was really interesting. That little tweak is going to make me a lot of money this year. I hope you guys apply that into different sales funnels, squeeze pages, sales processes. Whatever you're doing, think about the frame that someone is entering your website through and you can manipulate that. When you do that, you will manipulate and affect the outcome dramatically. I hope you guys enjoyed this podcast. If you do, please tell your friends. Tell anybody that likes marketing. It's a lot of fun. Again, if you like this, please leave feedback. Again, this is Russell Brunson with Marketing in Your Car podcast.

On this episode, Russell discusses how to properly use preframing in every step of your online sales sequence. ---Transcript--- Hey everybody, this is Russell Brunson. Welcome to the Marketing in Your Car podcast. I hope you guys are doing awesome today. I actually just got out of the gym and I’m driving back to the office and had something really exciting happen today that I wanted to share with everybody, actually, a bunch of exciting things. First off, we had almost 100 of you guys comment on the podcast yesterday which is exciting because I asked everyone to give some feedback. I appreciate it. Keep the good comments coming. It’s fun, it’s exciting, and hopefully we’ll get more people to learn about our podcast because I’m sharing all this cool stuff and we should share it with everyone. I want to see everybody’s businesses grow. That’s my passion in life. With that said, if anyone has been studying my stuff for awhile, I did a really cool talk at StomperNet four or five years ago. I did another one kind of similar at Dan Kennedy’s event about two years ago, not so much talking about internet marketing but talking about the sales process and the psychology behind it. There’s something that happened in our business today that was really exciting that re-reminded me of that. If you guys saw that presentation, and if you go to YouTube I think, at least Google, if you type in “Russell Brunson StomperNet presentation,” you can hear the whole 90 minute presentation. I was talking about just all the different things that happened, the lifeline of your customer. Somebody comes to your website and what website do they come through to get to your website? When they’re there, what do they see? What’s the next step, and the next step? I talked about all the pieces that you need to have in place to maximize your customer value. One of the big things I talked about was the concept that if you’ve ever studied NLP before, neuro-linguistic programming, you learn about a topic called framing which is basically the frame that somebody enters a situation will have a huge determining factor on the response they have on the next site, the next page. For example, if I’m going to frame you to my friends, introduce you to my friend, I’ll introduce you through a frame, “Hey, this is Joe. He’s a really cool guy. I think you’re going to like him.” The frame that I introduced you to my friend through, now he’s going to think, “Oh yeah, Joe is a cool guy.” If I say, “Hey, this is Joe, he’s a total jerk. He stole money from me. I want to introduce you to him,” that frame is going to be different and their whole experience with you is going to be different. In fact, there’s a really cool book. I can see the cover in my head but I can’t remember it right now, but in that book, they shared a case study of a teacher that was tested in a college classroom. They had a substitute teacher for the day. Before the substitute teacher came in, the principal or whatever came in and said, “Hey, we have a substitute teacher. Before I introduce him, I’d like you guys to read his bio really quick. Then I’m going to have him come in.” They handed out the bio to all the students in the class, in a class of 900 people or so. The surveys were exactly the same of the bios except for each of them had one word different. Half of the bios said, “Mr. So-and-so is a very warm teacher,” and the other half said, “Mr. So-and-so is a very cold teacher.” That was the only difference between the frame that these guys had to meet the teacher. The teacher came in. He gave the entire class, and at the end of it, they surveyed all the students. What was interesting was that, again, all the students heard the exact same lecture, all of them read the exact same bio. The only difference was that half the bios said he was a warm teacher, and half said he was a cold teacher. When they surveyed the students, the students that the paper said he was a warm teacher, the vast majority said, “He was an amazing teacher, he was great, I learned a lot.” The people whose paper said he was a cold teacher didn’t like him, thought he was talking down to him, he was a rude person. It was interesting how that little tiny shift of a frame, how much it affected the reality of that class afterwards. I’m always talking about and I always teach and do, when you’re sending somebody to your website, what’s the frame they’re coming through. The ad that they click on is a frame they’re going to your website through. If you land them on a review site before they come to your site, that was a frame you were taking them through. There’s a lot to do with different frames that you’re taking someone through and how it affects the outcome on the other side. We did this test just in the last two or three days. It was really interesting. We have this squeeze page. On the squeeze page, it’s kind of like a multi-step squeeze page where they first land on it, and it has a headline and it says, “Step number one, where did you learn about us?” There’s radio buttons they can choose, “Did you learn from this source, this source, or this source?” They click on the button. Then boom, it says, “Step number two, give us your email address.” Then step number three said finish. That was the way that this squeeze page worked. Step one, two, three, and step three was finish. The only test we changed was we changed the word finish to “Get Instant Access.” That was the entire test. What was interesting, and I almost got this wrong, we ran the test. What was interesting was that when it said “Finish” at the end, we had 40% bump in opt-ins because the last step is when they actually give you their email address, and then it says, “Click here to finish.” We’re like, “Wow, this is a great test. We found out we increased our opt-in rates by 40 percent.” I was even telling my guys, “We should change all of our opt-in buttons that said, ‘Submit here,’ to, ‘Click here to finish.’” We were really excited, but then after they opt-in, then we take them to the next page which takes them to a video sales letter where then we sell them the product we were trying to sell them. Then they land on that page. What was interesting was when we looked at the data between the two, we had a 40% increase in people who opted in clicking the finish button, but then we had almost a 40% decrease in sales across the board, dramatically. It actually more than, the sales more than cut in half percentage wise, the people who clicked on finish versus the people that clicked on “Get Instant Access.” You never really know why that works but psychology teaches me, what I believe is that the frame I was taking somebody through with the finish button was saying, “Hey, this process is finished. You’re done.” In their mind, it’s saying, “Okay, it’s complete, I’m finished,” and then off comes this page trying to sell them something, and I’ve closed that loop. I’ve closed that gap. Now they’re not in a buying position because just that little tiny, just the word on the button closed the gap on their mind which decreased sales by 50% whereas the “Get Instant Access Now,” then took them to a page where the loop was still open, they were trying to see what the next step was, and they were more in a state of mind where they could purchase. It was a very interesting test. Just think about how you guys can apply that into your business. It’s all about pre-framing, opening and closing loops, a whole bunch of really cool NLP stuff that I wrap into one little five minute lesson but just think about that, guys, on your sales processes. What are you doing? Are you keeping the loop open? Are you keeping them excited, or are you shutting them off and keeping them from making the sale you want? I remember on a one-time offer before we did a test awhile ago, similar type concept where they purchased the product and a one-time offer came up. It said, “Thank you so much for ordering. Your product is in the mail. By the way, we have this other special offer.” We tested that versus, “Wait, your order is not finished yet. Finish order customization, step one of three.” The “Wait, your order is not over yet, order customization,” that text dramatically thrashed the other one. It’s all about keeping that loop open, keeping the frame you’re taking someone through in the correct way that keeps them in the buying mood. Anyway, I thought it was really interesting. That little tweak is going to make me a lot of money this year. I hope you guys apply that into different sales funnels, squeeze pages, sales processes. Whatever you’re doing, think about the frame that someone is entering your website through and you can manipulate that. When you do that, you will manipulate and affect the outcome dramatically. I hope you guys enjoyed this podcast. If you do, please tell your friends. Tell anybody that likes marketing. It’s a lot of fun. Again, if you like this, please leave feedback. Again, this is Russell Brunson with Marketing in Your Car podcast.

Melanie Benson Strick is known as the Big Idea Catalyst because she knows first-hand how to take an idea and turn into a thriving six figure plus business with her secret weapon -- LEVERAGE. After 12 years in corporate project management, Melanie now works exclusively with thought leaders and big thinking entrepreneurs who want proven strategies to monetize their big ideas and catapult their success without giving up their life.   Melanie is on faculty with StomperNet as their delegation expert, is co-author of Entrepreneur.com's Start Up Guide to Starting an Information Marketing Business and has her success tips featured in magazines such as University of Phoenix Alumni, The Net Effect, Woman's Day and the LA Times. Melanie is a proud lifestyle enthusiast and spends her free time in search of the best spas and beaches in the world. We appreciate you tuning in to this episode of Your Partner In Success Radio with Host Denise Griffitts. If you enjoyed what you heard, please consider subscribing, rating, and leaving a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your support helps us reach more listeners and create even better content!Stay ConnectedWebsite: Your Partner In Success RadioEmail: mail@yourofficeontheweb.com

Knowing how to think and act like a CEO, whether you are making five figures or seven, is the key to building your empire. Imagine spending most of your time doing the things you love while achieving more in a week than most people do in a year! As CEO of Success Connections for almost 10 years, Melanie Benson Strick has discovered how to build a successful, thriving company with her secret weapon — LEVERAGE. Having learned first hand the difference between a struggling solo-practice and a thriving six+ figure business, Melanie works exclusively with entrepreneurs who want to skyrocket their profits so they can experience more time off. With over 12 years experience in Corporate project management, advanced results coaching and leadership development, Melanie turns her clients into profitable, high-payoff success stories. Melanie's clients enjoy an average growth rate of 172% within the first year while creating more time for living their dream lifestyle. Melanie is on faculty at StomperNet, one of the worlds leading authorities on online marketing, hosts a weekly radio show called The Get Real Revolution, and is author of The Power of the Virtual Team, co-author of the Visionary Women Inspiring the World and the upcoming best seller The CEO Factor. Melanie has spoken all over the country and shared the stage with legends such as Chris Howard, John Assaraf, Barbara DeAngelis, Alex Mandossian, Jack Canfield and Mark Victor Hanson. We will talk about Leadership Mastery: How being CEO of your business is the fastest path to massive growth. We appreciate you tuning in to this episode of Your Partner In Success Radio with Host Denise Griffitts. If you enjoyed what you heard, please consider subscribing, rating, and leaving a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your support helps us reach more listeners and create even better content!Stay ConnectedWebsite: Your Partner In Success RadioEmail: mail@yourofficeontheweb.com

Dave Davies and Jim Hedger recap Search Engine Strategies New York 2007, news on the release of HD-DVD code on Digg as well as talk keywords with Dan Thies, Dean of Faculty at Stompernet.