Podcasts about safety ii

This week, the boys are talking about theory and practice, because, as the listener who submitted the question says, "fuck you, that's why."It's true, there's a lot of safety literature out there that's gotten more head-up-its-own-ass. Moralizing about safety is cool until it isn't, and the question is a good one (it was something like wanting to hear more about decision-making and doing things instead of recycling ideas as a career by itself).It can feel like things get way too academic and maybe even elite. That said, the boys argue that people don't need things "dumbed down" for them, either.The whole point of this little podcast is to be able to question things about safety. It seems like an awful lot of discussion, sometimes a little rowdy, is about whether something is "just theory" or if it's actually useful.Being useful is important, but asking who something is useful for is just as important. And being useful isn't something that just happens. It's based on theory, too.  So there's the thing. Dave brings up playing bass with only 2 or 3 strings, which means that even though the guitar company thinks they're important, Dave doesn't. The boys talk about making sure front-line folks have tools that work - but people work in other places, too. That gets back to the "Who is it useful for?" questions.Solid quote from Dave on this one, by the way: "Theory isn't just pontification, like people sitting around on whiteboards just making shit up, proposing stuff."Theory is observing patterns that actually happen in the world, and then trying to come up with models about why those patterns play out, and in what situations it matters. Otherwise, how do we build tools and predict those patterns in a way that's connected directly to work.So principles aren't theory. They're underlying values and guides for understanding.Does theory matter? Do principles matter? Yup.But as important as they are, theories and principles aren't solutions by themselves.Maybe that's the disconnect: treating principles as solutions. If you're into the whole work-as-imagined thing, that's pretty close to describing theory. There's some disagreement between the boys about starting with the theory vs. starting with observations in the organization. Here's where you probably ought to listen in to see how the conversation pans out.Arguing about what punk rock is can sometimes just get in the way of the music. The whole answer is never in the book. It's probably not only at the point of work either. Like the description of this stupid podcast says, do shit that works. DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

"I think the context was kind of like, how do you go about trying to maybe introduce or convince your organization on some of the more contemporary ideas, when your organization is deeply rooted in zero harm and... Well, I think that's mostly it. Or something like that."  It's our first *official* episode dedicated to a listener question, and Dave totally nailed the summary with the leadoff quote.So what happens when people in authority are focused on zero? Well, for one, you name the episode after the band Authority Zero.It's not super constructive to come out and say that zero harm is stupid. Feel free to give it a go, but the boys wrestled with where it's okay to agree on the big ideas - like don't kill people at work - and have an adult conversation about differences in how we get there.To our listener's question, though, the boys had a pretty solid discussion on introducing some punk rock in a Backstreet Boy safety world. Making the cost of trying something new low is important. We don't need to burn all the boss's shitty records just to have them listen to something new.Focusing on deep discussions of principles is pretty lazy stuff, and then you get folks worried that we're saying harm is okay. It isn't, but maybe we should be focusing on asking leaders how, if it's zero harm or it's not zero harm, what does that mean for what's actually going to change in my organization? Are there unintended consequences of having aspirations of zero? And if there are (and there are), then what should we do differently to sort that out?  Getting to a discussion that's somewhere between shifting an entire worldview and being too far down in the weeds is a tricky balance, but we're trying to get to a middle ground. At least a little bit.The consensus seems to revolve around the idea that we don't have to lure leaders into the van with candy. It might just be that they haven't heard different ideas, and building from what they know to what they need is probably just fine. Maybe it isn't very punk rock, but not thrashing into a leader's office like we're in the mosh pit of contemporary safety is a better move. DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

It was sort of like a NOFX show. People had the wrong time, Ron rolled in when he felt like it, a lot of friends were there, and a few hooligans showed up to make sure we actually did something.Seriously, though, thanks to the gang for ideas and discussion. It wasn't quite as messy as inviting Fletcher on stage, but we've got time to work up to it.With the faithful there (and Ron later on), the discussion started out by asking: "Is any of this actually new?" There is a sense sometimes that there's just a bunch of rebranding going on. Maybe that's something the people with real jobs see a little bit more of.Speaking of real jobs, David Strano wins the quote of the day with "Work fucking sucks sometimes." Amen.All of this talk about safety can get lost without acknowledging that not everybody thinks about safety like we do. They probably shouldn't, because it would be weird. That means what we do in the name of safety has to actually change the work for the better. It probably also means that if you're doing safety, you should also spend some time actually doing work if you can. Not just a simple shadow for a day. Actual real work, at as many levels and departments as you can.The boys - really the guests on stage - talked a bit about middle managers, too, and how they can maintain a connection to work while trying to support innovative ideas. Safety can seem like the opposite of innovation sometimes, right? Innovation is risky, so there was some talk about how we set people up for successfully testing new ideas, especially ones that affect the safety of work.Anyway, give it a listen. It's a nice break from Ron, Dave, and Ben all the time. DISCLAIMER: You probably shouldn't take anything in this podcast too seriously. Punk Rock Safety is for entertainment only. It's definitely not a replacement for professional or legal advice, and the fair amount of piss-taking, shithousery, and general ridiculousness ought to clue you into the fact that no one - and no organization - is endorsing (or un-endorsing, if that's a thing) any products, ideas, or other things. Except NOFX. We definitely endorse them.Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Judith van der Hulst is bedrijfseconoom en werkte jarenlang in en rond de accountancysector. Daarnaast was ze actief in de zorg, onder meer via het landelijke programma Tijd voor Verbinding. In deze aflevering vertelt ze wat die twee werelden van elkaar kunnen leren.Ze bespreekt het NBA-programma Beroepscultuur en introduceert het gedachtegoed van Safety II uit de zorg. In plaats van alleen te kijken naar fouten, richt dit zich op wat er in de dagelijkse praktijk wél goed gaat. Volgens Judith is dat precies waar de sleutel ligt tot een gezonde professionele cultuur.Het gesprek gaat over veiligheid op de werkvloer, het belang van een open gesprek en het activeren van de vaak stille meerderheid binnen teams. Ook leiderschap komt aan bod. Niet door nog meer regels, maar door vertrouwen te geven en mensen uit te nodigen hun verantwoordelijkheid te nemen.Judith laat zien dat cultuurverandering geen papieren plan is, maar begint met hoe mensen samenwerken, luisteren en ruimte geven aan elkaar.

First off, every new episode is sort of a surprise, but making it to Episode 30 is about 29 more than the boys expected. And of course the title is from a NOFX album.In celebration of Ron's (new) real job at a bit of a startup, we thought that talking about how you'd build your safety empire from scratch might look. The boys' discussion centers on starting with executive leaders to create a vision for what really good safety would look, sound, and feel like.  There's - shockingly - a fair bit of BS in the middle, but the boys eventually get around to a few of the benefits of building things up in a small organization: there's room to do some experimentation, a chance to manage messaging about safety with a small crew, and the opportunity to come up with a solid 30/60/90-day plan (or 100-day if you use the Australian conversion rate).The consensus, if you can call it that, is that agreeing on principles around safety may not be enough. You need some specifics, and in a small group, that might come from consistently having in-person time between leaders and safety people. It might be asking folks what certain approaches to operations might look like to meet acceptable levels of safety risk and then giving people choices. There's more than one way to write a song, too, so it's not the end of the world.Anyway, when you get the chance to start from scratch as a band, there aren't a lot of people at the shows. It's a good time to figure out your tone and get to know your audience. Same in an organization.  Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Two-thirds of the dickheads on this podcast are consultants, so an episode about consulting seemed like a good idea.Also, there's a lot of chatter at conferences, online, and probably in bars that play ska music about how safety has just become commoditized and monetized. Usually, it's a consultant trying to sell something who's saying that.Ben, Ron, and Dave head into the dimly lit back alleys where consultants apparently live to look at the good, the bad, and the sometimes fucked up realities of bringing external help into organizations. The reality for many organizations is that more help isn't coming. The safety team isn't hiring, and folks are constantly being asked to do more with less.The boys think that's where good outside help is huge. Like the Wolf in Pulp Fiction. Sort of.The role of consultants as "force multipliers" isn't made up, but they should be there to sit in with the band when Ron doesn't show up, not hang out forever like Yoko. And if some chucklefuck has an answer before they even get to know your organization, you should probably show them the door.The crew examines why some consultants do better than others and how organizations can best use outside expertise (like a solid opener or a supergroup like MFATGG). Now that he has a real job, Ron adds a few points from the perspective of someone actually hiring consultants to help out. The short version is that if you're picky about who you let on stage, a consultant can be a lot of help. Watch out for the assholes that show up already knowing all the answers (or with nine dudes carrying horns - that's a ska band), though.  Bonus: Includes discussions about snowboarding, basketball, and potential international deportation policies. Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

It's almost a theme at this point, but if you guessed the episode title is also a NOFX song, you're the winner. It's a pretty deep cut from the Backstage Pass album, but it gets right to the point of this episode - that culture shapes meaning. And safety can mean a lot of different things when we aren't careful to understand it in the context of culture. We could have gone with the Pennywise song "Society," but we didn't. It's cool if you like that one better.In this episode of the PRS podcast, the boys discuss the challenges of implementing global safety standards while being culturally sensitive. They highlight the importance of understanding local practices and adapting safety protocols accordingly. Ron shares some experience with a learning team in Malaysia and the cultural barriers that can make effective communication super difficult.  If you only get one takeaway from this one - and that's a stretch sometimes - it's the need to standardize outcomes, not processes or even policies, as a way to aim for global consistency with locally relevant practices. Safety is very much affected by imposing Western safety norms on diverse cultures, and without a solid interpretation of local and societal norms, that can be dangerous.Ok, get to it then.  Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Hey, you guessed it - a title from a NOFX song.This time, the boys are talking about power. It's a pretty punk rock topic, because there's a lot of music about subverting power.The conversation starts with the same BS as usual - you're welcome. Eventually, it moves to the good stuff of complexities of power and politics in safety and the importance of decentralized decision-making and deference to expertise. The boys discuss the impact of power imbalances on team dynamics, communication, and safety, and links to studies and real-world examples.  Really, there's a lot of evidence that supports how important it is for safety professionals to address these issues and promote open, honest communication. There's more to it than that, but you'll have to listen in! Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Like the Sex Pistols song, but with more cowboys and stuff.There's been some talk of abolishing the health and safety regulator - OSHA - in the US. It's pretty punk to think of full-scale safety anarchy, but is that what would really happen?Maybe leaving safety performance up to companies wouldn't be so bad. After all, things were going great before regulation, right? It was a magical place where FSMM reigned supreme. At least sometimes.The boys haven't been good about predicting the future so far, so this episode probably isn't much different, but there are some solid points raised about what actually encourages safety in industry. Anyway, Reagan Youth probably has something to say about what sure sounds like "trickle down safety."Listen in and let us know what you think. LinkedIn is where all the most punk rock conversations are happening. Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Ron is back!Turns out that even a punk band needs a lead guitar, no matter how simple some people say it is to play.In this episode, the boys stumble onto the topic of whether safety can be a simple formula. There are some recent publications that represent it that way, but it's sort of like trying to define punk music. There are probably a million ways to describe it, and in the end, it doesn't matter anyway.  We've already covered safety metrics on PRS, but this is a little different. It's about simplifying safety to some two-dimensional BS.Also, the formula idea is sort of bad. Using made-up numbers, constants, measures of effort, or whatever else to arrive at a safety score is mostly wasted time and maybe just harmful.Listen to the pod for more inspiring advice!  Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

This week Emma speaks to GP and researcher Dr Rebecca Payne about what general practice can learn from the research she's been involved with on remote patient care.In this conversation Rebecca talks about her research into patient safety in remote consultations, what GPs can do to ensure remote consultations are safe and lessons for practices about the systems that they need to have in place. She also talks about the wider implications of this research including what it means for training and education.Rebecca also explains her research into how the shift to remote care has impacted on quality in primary care, what this could mean for the future of general practice - and what she hopes policymakers will take from the findings.This episode was presented by GPonline editor Emma Bower. It was produced by Czarina Deen.Useful linksPatient safety in remote primary care encounters: multimethod qualitative study combining Safety I and Safety II analysis, published in BMJ Quality and SafetyTeaching patient safety in remote consultationsProject resources from the Remote by Default study including competencies for staff and advice for patientsHow to ensure safe remote consultations in your practice - from GPonline Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Frenzal Rhomb: Digging A Hole For Myself******************************************************************************************Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Bad Religion: Los Angeles is Burning******************************************************************************************Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

NOFX The Idiots Are Taking OverOh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Crass: Do They Owe Us A Living?Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

NOFX I'm So Sorry TonyOh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

NOFX The CauseOh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

NOFX "War on Errorism"Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Bad Religion "21st Century Digital Boy"Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Pennywise "Fuck Authority"Yep, they played it at Punk in Drublic in LA.Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Oh, and give your money to Punk Rock Saves Lives. They're a rad organization that works in mental health, addiction, and human rights. And they're awesome people who can use your help to keep on kicking ass at what they do.https://www.punkrocksaveslives.org/ Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Oh, and don't forget the 1st Annual PRS Field Trip October 4-6 in LA at the Punk in Drublic Fest. Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Fine. You're right. The title is also the name of a NOFX album. NOFX is rad, though, so we're keeping it. This week, we're talking to a kickass guest, Sam Goodman, about making safety less sucky. Sam even wrote a book about it. The truth is, a lot of people have experienced working with safety folks that just come across as assholes, or buzzkills, or cops, or knobs. It's not a surprise that most people aren't super-stoked to hear the safety person is on-site next week, right? There are a few things that probably help dispel the myth that safety is about catching someone doing it wrong, though. That's what the lucky 13th episode is all about: what are we doing to make safety more relatable, useful, and less shitty?Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page. Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Come hang with the boys at the Punk In Drublic fest in LA!  Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Toxic Narcotic, People Suck - the video is here  Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Want to check out Agent Orange? You're welcome: https://youtu.be/4SHIEKeubCM Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

Here's a link to Milo Goes to College. It's a great record.https://youtu.be/5qN3rAc5mPY Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

We said we were going to livestream, but we definitely didn't. Sorry. This shit's harder than it seems like it should be.You should 100% check out the YouTube on this one. Other Ben did some sweet background editing because we were in a hotel meeting room with gold striped fabric walls that looked like a United Nations briefing room. That made it really fucking hard to switch the background, and Other Ben did some solid work here, so give him some love.Uhhhh. Did we mention Ron's defense is on Friday the 28th? https://osu.zoom.us/j/93938693366?pwd=jBaGq9xR8aC4qI6r09oCVAz9I6hSbr.1 - but mute yo self. Nobody wants to hear you breathing heavy or your stupid questions. Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

We're at CHOL by the time this thing goes live, so hopefully, you'll come say hello. And we're streaming live from there, so that'll be a first, and we'll probably fuck it up.As a reminder, Ben has threatened to pay for anyone who will get the PRS logo tattooed during the CHOL24 conference. Put up or shut up, punks. And then go listen to Fea. Remember them, they did the intro music for the pod.  Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.Merch at punkrocksafetymerch.com

In Episode 50, the S+H team celebrates a milestone and examines content from the April issue, including the results of the annual Training Survey, safety and health for remote workers, and work zone safety. Also, SafeStart's Tim Page-Bottorff joins the podcast to preview his presentation on Safety I vs. Safety II, in partnership with Corrie Pitzer, to be made at the 2024 NSC Spring Safety Conference and Expo – set for May 14-16 in Rosemont, IL – during the “Five Questions With …” segment. Read episode notes, visit links, sign up to be notified by email when each new episode has been published, and find other ways to subscribe. https://www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/articles/25282-safe-side-podcast-episode-50-safety-i-vs-safety-ii Published April 2024

In Episode 50, the S+H team celebrates a milestone and examines content from the April issue, including the results of the annual Training Survey, safety and health for remote workers, and work zone safety. Also, SafeStart's Tim Page-Bottorff joins the podcast to preview his presentation on Safety I vs. Safety II, in partnership with Corrie Pitzer, to be made at the 2024 NSC Spring Safety Conference and Expo – set for May 14-16 in Rosemont, IL – during the “Five Questions With …” segment. Read episode notes, visit links, sign up to be notified by email when each new episode has been published, and find other ways to subscribe. https://www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/articles/25282-safe-side-podcast-episode-50-safety-i-vs-safety-ii Published April 2024

There was some very real belief that this was an April Fools joke. It isn't. Sorry about that.The podcast continues, and up next we'll talk a little bit about leadership. And our first guest will join us!We can't tell you much about that episode yet, because we don't want to spoil the party. But we think you'll dig it. Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

It's the first episode of Punk Rock Safety!Ben, Ron, and Dave are all over the place on this one, but we'll settle into a rhythm soon. In the true spirit of punk, if it isn't good, at least make it loud. So, you might want to turn this first one up.That's ok, though. Safety works the same way a lot of times. There's experimentation and a need for intelligent failure. We're doing our best to manage on that second part.In the next few episodes, we'll look at what makes a safety professional, the pretend choices between safety philosophies,  the concept of safety culture, behavior-based safety, MBWA, and probably some BS mixed in, too. Let us know what you think at info@punkrocksafety.com or on our LinkedIn page.

Host:  Timothy Morgenthaler, MD  @DrTimMorg Guest:  Subashnie Devkaran, Ph.D., Chair, Quality, Mayo Clinic Hospitals can succeed or fail based on their patient safety reputation and records. Is it enough to claim being a “safe hospital” based on declining patient safety incidents or the goal of “zero harm?” How do you know your if hospital is truly a safe place for patients and staff?  Join us for the conversation with  Subashnie Devkaran, Ph.D., Enterprise Chair, Quality, Mayo Clinic. In the discussion, Dr. Devkaran shares her thoughts about moving towards "Safety-II" concepts and the paradigm shift from achieving zero harm to being a high-reliability organization. She also discusses how artificial intelligence will be part of advancing health care quality and safety in meaningful ways for patients and staff. Find out more about Mayo Clinic's Quality program at https://www.mayoclinic.org/about-mayo-clinic/quality/. Connect with us on Twitter or Facebook using #mayokeyintoquality or at: https://www.facebook.com/MayoClinic https://twitter.com/MayoClinic  

This week on the Conversation we are joined by the mecuirial Rob Kirkwood. A refreshingly honest conversation with some interesting insights from across the ditch. Available at Spotify, ITunes, Stitcher, Iheart Radio, Google Podcasts, Google Chrome and many more. If you want a quick link try these: https://buff.ly/3Arrmq9 or watch at https://buff.ly/3AeAEG Rob is the Organisational Performance Manager for Energyworks in Taranaki and has spent the last 30 years working in a number of high-risk industries including oil and gas, electricity, adventure tourism, transportation and waste. Rob has also held a number of health, safety and environmental roles, however over the last 10 years, Rob has watched the ‘safety industry' go from non-existent in some sectors to a bureaucratic burden in others with layers of administration that add little value. Despondent with corporate zero harm fallacies, tracking metrics and low trust leadership models, Rob sought out a new way of ‘doing' safety and the results speak for themselves but in doing so has realised that this has very little to do with safety. Energyworks also won the inaugural Safety II category at the National Health and Safety awards last year and as a result have been instrumental in taking the lead in removing health and safety from the vocabulary. Rob believes that every person can undertake growth personally and professionally in the right environment. Rob's approach revolves around the principle that workers are not the problem but the solution so we need to ensure our people are at the core of decision making. Links: LinkedIn: https://buff.ly/3s6avsb Thanks for listening. We have some great guests coming up in future pods so get ready to learn. Until next time, enjoy the rest of your week, and stay safe. https://plus.acast.com/s/health-and-safety-conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ep205: Platinum, Covid, and how ideas spread, with Andrew Barrett Full Show Notes: https://safetyontap.com/ep205   I noticed when they started saying 'Welcome back Mr Barrett' when I boarded the plane.  But I really took notice, when they stopped saying it.  This is a podcast about ideas, and stories, and our opportunity to pay more attention to how they affect our work as health and safety professionals.    Hey, it's Andrew, and this is Safety on Tap.    Since you're listening in, you must be a leader wanting to grow yourself and drastically improve health and safety along the way.  Welcome to you, you're in the right place.  If this is your first time listening in, thanks for joining us and well done for trying something different to improve! And of course welcome back to all of you wonderful regular listeners.     Before Covid I travelled a fair bit, and despite proving time and time again how effective virtual coaching and facilitation can be during Covid, once travel restrictions were eased I found myself being asked to come here and go there more than I would like.  Covid saw two automatic extensions of my frequent flyer status, since if you can't fly you can't maintain it.  Once travel was permitted again, I found myself dropped from the top tier frequent flyer colour down to the next one.  I've always said  that frequent flyer status is not exciting nor something to be coveted, all it indicates is that I spend too much time away from my family.    Stick with me, for regular listeners you'll know that my story and metaphor ties into what we do as health and safety professionals, rather than an egotistical rant.  There is something small, something human about stepping onto a plane, and someone looking at the colour at the bottom of the pass, looking you in the eye, and saying welcome back.  They don't know me, they see data which tells them on this airline, we value loyalty and we welcome people by name.    Until they didn't.  It seems that stepping onto a plane, Gold status bumps me down the human respect pecking order, so there is no personal 'welcome back My Barrett' anymore.  They changed their idea about what loyalty, status and customer service sounds like.  One tiny change made me notice, and changed the way I feel.    Infectious Ideas, Genes and Memes   An idea which I was introduced to me early in my career, and which was reinforced a lot, an idea which I came to believe and would re-tell to others was that safety management systems were the solution to health and safety performance.  That idea became so intertwined in my professional identity and practice that it shaped me, and blinded me, and twisted me.    Another idea which was part of my early professional shaping is the story that 'part of our job is to protect the Board of Directors'.  That one did a real doozy on me, creating confusion and anger and inconsistency and bad behaviour in the name of a story which I believed at the start because other people handed that idea down to me so became my story.  Except when I decided that it wouldn't be my story, that I needed a new story to replace it.  Needless to say that one needs an entire lying-on-the-couch podcast session, but ultimately boils down to very important but grammatically minor tweaks I made to the core idea in the story: instead of 'part of our job is to protect the Board of Directors', my new story was 'most of my job is supporting safe and healthy work, which becomes protection for the Board of Directors'.  How did those ideas come to be? In part, they were spread, like a virus, from others to me, and they became infective.    You may have heard the word genes, spelled g-e-n-e-s, in reference to the unique DNA coding which animals and plants inherit from their parents in the process of reproduction.  Genes contain the information which lead to your height, your eye colour, and many parts of your physical and psychological make-up, including tendency for disease, creativity and intellect.    In the biological world, something like Covid did not exactly exist until the day that it did.  What happened that day was a combination of mutation of genes within cells, an increasingly hospitable environment for those cells, and then rapid copying or replication of those virus cells and their spread into hospitable environments, namely human beings.  The cells which had evolved reproduced, the ones that didn't evolve didn't survive, and that is the basic equation for the explosive spread of that virus, including it's variants which were just human labels for distinct mutations of the original genetic makeup of the virus.    The copying, mutation, and selection which ideas in our culture undergo is an analogy to biological genetic evolution through generations over time.  In 1976 Richard Dawkins wrote a book titled the Selfish Gene, in which he expanded on the idea of 'memes' as described by numerous other authors, including Huxley as far back as the 1800's.  A meme was originally meant to signify a cultural idea, a bit like a piece of DNA, which spreads, duplicates and mutates according to cultural pressures, like competition, and favourable or inhospitable environment.    Survival, Spread, and Virality   An example of this most of us can identify with is how ideas of hatred or violence spread.  These ideas are not new in human history, but definitely evolve over time, which means that there continues to be environments of greater or lesser benefit to the ideas.  We might think that a cultural environment like religion and religious believers is inhospitable to violence or hatred, yet we see institutional religion and believers as promotors and perpetrators of so much hatred and violence in the past.  We might say that developed countries have cultures which are increasingly inhospitable to hatred and violence, yet every single one of them has obsessive sporting sub-cultures based on the idea that my team is the best, which means I hate your team, and the way we prove it is to go to battle with balls, batts and white lines on mowed grass fields.    Can you see how complicated it gets when we start seeing ideas and how they spread?   It's no mistake that memes, as cultural ideas akin to biological genes, are often described as 'viral' - spreading and evolving rapidly.  The way to spot traits is to look for things common across multiple generations.  My wife and I have blue eyes so my kids will all have blue eyes.  But sporting ability? That's harder to see, but it's there if you look.  So let's think about the virality of ideas in health and safety.    What are the things which you were introduced to as a young or new health and safety professional which you accepted as they were.  Once of mine was about safety management systems.  What about yours? That compliance is the goal? That everything needs a record? That people do make bad decisions? That complacency is a real, valid, and satisfactory explanation for an incident? That danger pay is an acceptable trade off for high risk working conditions? That Unions truly do want to protect worker safety? Or that Unions weaponise safety? That Regulators should be welcomed to the workplace? Or that Regulators should be quickly shown a fabrication of real work and shown the door?   What about our role? That we are here to protect? Or care? That if we don't do safety no one else will? That even if we know the training is crappy, we convince people it's not that bad because we think it's the right thing to do? That you are a better safety person because of your real world experience? Or you are better because you studied? Or you are better because you had a personal safety or health scare? Or you are a better professional because you had a father or brother or daughter or friend die at work?   Paying Attention to How Ideas Spread   All these things are memes, not cute cat face memes or Chuck Another Shrimp on the Barbie memes, they are the idea threads which replicate, evolve and spread in our culture, the stuff we say and do and read and pay attention to and develop and expect at work and what work expects of us.    The greatest irony of all about Dawkins concept of the meme, was that it was, in his words, 'hijacked by the internet'.  Instead of an interesting theory for us to look at culture, it became the label for cheesy, cheap and shallow attention sucking snippets all within the square frame in your social media feed.  This hijacking led to three very interesting things happening which we can learn from.    First, memes started behaving less like genes when people became intent and deliberate about how they changed them.  Instead of evolutionary selection (which explains why giraffes have long necks) or mutation (such as the cause of Down Syndrome or Cystic Fibrosis), people actively muck around and change ideas.  Think about how many memes you've seen based on The Matrix Movie, Game of Thrones, Donald Trump or anything with a cat in it.   In safety we see how people are deliberately mutating original ideas.  The concept of management commitment enshrined in safety management systems was twisted into a signed policy.  The concept of risk management overemphasised the risk assessment step, at the expense of risk identification and risk control.  Hollnagels original idea of Safety I inside Safety II got turned into Safety I versus Safety II.  Most people don't even know where the ideas have come from let alone at what point in time someone changed or twisted the original idea.    The second interesting observation coming from the internet's hijacking of memes, is that memes result in behaviours in which people are actively trying to make something viral.  In biology this is kind of nonsense, even viruses aren't deliberately viral in the sense that it's not like someone or some people designed it to spread, it spread because the environment suited it and there was no downward pressure on its spread.  And the internet is a far less hostile place for ideas to evolve and spread than in the natural environment.  It took 1000 years for humans to figure out that the biggest juiciest seeds are worth saving and breeding to plant as next years crop, instead of wandering around the forest hoping to find enough to eat.  1000 years for the idea of agriculture to evolve.  It has taken around 100 years for the idea that organisations should employ people specifically focussed on safety.  It has taken only a few decades for the idea of safety management systems to become mainstream, and less than that for business leaders to think that Lost Time Injury is a good indicator of safety performance.  The concept of work as imagined and work as done is over 70 years old, but the idea only spread within the last 20, and only two people on the entire planet are responsible for most of that virality.  This second insight means that the ideas that spread are the ones that win.  Not the best ideas, not even the original ideas. Ideas that spread, win.   Are we infected, infectious, or both?   The concept of ideas as cultural memes gives us an opportunity to do a little reflection on something which is all around us, but not something most of us pay much attention to.    What kinds of ideas do you believe, spread, or shape without realising it?   Do you take ideas as-is, or do you try to change them as you spread them?   What kinds of ideas do you take as fact, and what ideas have you rejected or changed?   We get frustrated when people in our organisations 'don't get it'.  That might be because other ideas are far more viral than the ones you are trying to make extinct.    This epsiode as been in half-draft for over two years ago (in fact, there are heaps just like that in half-draft).  Thanks to Mick Bates for unknowingly giving me the nudge to finish this podcast when he shared some helpful reflections on how extremist ideas and beliefs come to be.    Thanks so much for listening.  Until next time, what's the one thing you'll do to take positive, effective or rewarding action, to grow yourself, and drastically improve health and safety along the way?   Seeya!

Matt discusses his (ex?) fear of flying and we drill deeper into the idea of risk normalization. From there, it's on to safety "controls" and the human condition. Do they always play nice?

So it begins... We'll discuss what we're doing with this podcast and where fundamental attribution error shows up in our lives. Also, homework?

We discuss safety controls we defeat (or totally ignore) because they lack operational fidelity. Next it's onto audits / observations and the parent-child dynamic that is frequently present in our lives.

We discuss real examples of fundamental attribution error inside and outside of the workplace. Then it's on to risk normalization - is it something we can change?

We'll go over some examples of where the parent-child dynamic happened in our week - from there it's all about Taylorism.

Get Caught Trying to Make the World Better! Best Safety Podcast, Safety Program, Safety Storytelling, Investigations, Human Performance, Safety Differently, Operational Excellence, Resilience Engineering, Safety and Resilience Incentives... Give this a listen. Thanks for listening and tell your friends. See you on Audible...all my books are up on there. One of them is read by a British dude - it is like a Harry Potter book! Have a great day as well.

Get Caught Trying to Make the World Better!   Best Safety Podcast, Safety Program, Safety Storytelling, Investigations, Human Performance, Safety Differently, Operational Excellence, Resilience Engineering, Safety and Resilience Incentives...   Give this a listen.   Thanks for listening and tell your friends.  See you on Audible...all my books are up on there.  One of them is read by a British dude - it is like a Harry Potter book!  Have a great day as well.

Thanks to Michael for joining us on the pod for a second time. In another episode where we view how theory has been put into practice, Michael takes us through his experience of practically applying 'new view' theories within the utilities and energy sector and navigating a complex and fast-paced industry with complex regulations. We discuss Safety Differently and Safety II, learning teams, the role of the HSE professional, clutter and the intent of a safety system. Enjoy.

In this episode, Mary Conquest speaks with Josh Bryant, a General Manager of People, Risk and Sustainability who's worked in the mining industry for over 20 years and implemented an award-winning critical risk management system.Josh has always been open to different workplace safety frameworks and uses scientific reasoning to decide which elements to adopt or reject. He's not tied to any particular theory, and gives HSE professionals a great overview of his journey of exploration, combining different approaches to safety management.There are a lot of safety theories, frameworks and ideas, and it can be confusing for EHS professionals looking to implement the best solutions for their organization. Josh demystifies Safety-I, Safety-II, Safety Differently and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP). He explains how these approaches can be combined and tells us why he came to focus on critical risk management.Josh maintains that flexibility and curiosity are crucial qualities for HSE professionals who should always practice humble inquiry regardless of your approach to workplace safety.Josh Bryant on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshbryant1Books recommended by Josh:The Field Guide to Understanding 'Human Error' by Sidney Dekker:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Field-Guide-Understanding-Human-Error/dp/1472439058Workplace Fatalities by Todd Conklin:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Workplace-Fatalities-Discussion-Fatality-Reduction/dp/1546979654Bob's Guide to Operational Learning by  Bob Edwards and Andrea Baker:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bobs-Guide-Operational-Learning-Organizational/dp/B08QRYT5QNPodcasts recommended by Josh:PreAccident Investigation:https://preaccidentpodcast.podbean.com/The Safety of Work:https://safetyofwork.com/Rebranding Safety:https://podcasts.bcast.fm/rebranding-safetySafety on Taphttps://www.safetyontap.com/episodes/Safety Labs is created by Slice, the only safety knife on the market with a finger-friendly® blade. Find us at www.sliceproducts.comIf you have any questions, please email us at safetylabs@sliceproducts.com

There is an enormous amount of talk about new safety approaches, in theory, compared to implementation in practice.  But implementation does exist, it does show promise, and it can be done at scale.  My guests today are First Officer Bogomir Glavan and First Officer Nicholas Peterson from American Airlines Learning and Improvement Team.  This team is hyper-generous, part of their DNA is to write papers, do presentations, and speak at conferences to share their work, in the hope that it does two things: first that it helps other people, and second that it helps them improve what they are doing through that collaborative process of learning, getting feedback, and reflecting. This conversation was pretty wide-ranging, we talk about the historical beginnings of this Safety II-informed approach to learning and improvement, and how it both differs from and compliments conventional approaches to safety.  The bottom line is this: these people are doing some of the most advanced operational learning and Safety-II in practice in the world.  And just because you don't work for an airline, doesn't mean you can't either.  I'll talk you through the best way to take these amazing insights into action after the conversation, so stick around for that. 

This episode delves into the emerging safety culture known as safety II and how American Airlines are leading the industry in applying it to aviation

Find out our thoughts on this paper and our key takeaways for the ever-changing world of workplace safety.  Topics:Introduction to the paper & the Author“Adding more rules is not going to make your system safer.”The principles of safety in the paperTypes of safety systems as broken down by the paperProblems in these “Ultrasafe systems”The Summary of developments of human errorThe psychology of making mistakesThe Efficiency trade-off element in safetySuggestions in Amalberti's conclusionTakeaway messagesAnswering the question: Why does safety get harder as systems get safer? Quotes:“Systems are good - but they are bad because humans make mistakes” - Dr. Drew Rae“He doesn't believe that zero is the optimal number of human errors” - Dr. Drew Rae“You can't look at mistakes in isolation of the context”  - Dr. Drew Rae“The context and the system drive the behavior. - Dr. David Provan“It's part of the human condition to accept mistakes. It is actually an important part of the way we learn and develop our understanding of things. - Dr. David Provan  Resources:Griffith University Safety Science Innovation LabThe Safety of Work PodcastThe Safety of Work LinkedInFeedback@safetyofwork.comThe Paradoxes of Almost Totally Safe Transportation Systems by R. AmalbertiRisk Management in a Dynamic society: a Modeling problem - Jens RasmussenThe ETTO Principle: Efficiency-Thoroughness Trade-Off: Why Things That Go Right Sometimes Go Wrong - Book by Erik HollnagelEp.81 How does simulation training develop Safety II capabilities?Navigating safety: Necessary Compromises and Trade-Offs - Theory and Practice - Book by R. Amalberti

The specific paper found some interesting results from these simulated situations - including that it was found that the debriefing, post-simulation, had a large impact on the amount of learning the participants felt they made. The doctors chat about whether the research was done properly and whether the findings could have been tested against alternative scenarios to better prove the theorized results. Topics:Individual and team skills needed to maintain safety.Safety-I vs Safety-IIIntroduction to the research paperMaritime Safety and human errorSingle-loop vs Double-loop learningSimulator programs help people learn and reflectResearch methodsResults discussionRecognizing errors and anomaliesShared knowledge to define limits of actionOperating the system with confidenceImportance of learning by doing and reflecting back afterwardComplexity and uncertainty as a factor in safety strategy.Practical Takeaways  Work simulation is an effective learning processHalf of the learning comes from the debriefRead this paper if doing simulation training Quotes:“Very few advocates of Safety-II would disagree that it's important to keep trying to identify those predictable ways that a system can fail and put in place barriers and controls and responses to those predictable ways that a system can fail.” - Dr. David Provan“It limits claims that you can make about just how effective the program is. Unless you've got a comparison, you can't really draw a conclusion that it's effective.” - Dr. Drew Rae“A lot of these scenarios are just things like minor sensor failures or errors in the display which you can imagine in an automated system, those are the things that need human intervention.” - Dr. Drew Rae“Safety-I is necessary but not sufficient - you need to move on to the resilient solution ”  - Dr. Drew Rae“I don't really think that situational complexity is what should guide your safety strategy. - Dr. Drew Rae Resources:Griffith University Safety Science Innovation LabThe Safety of Work PodcastFeedback@safetyofwork.comResearch paperNorwegian University of Science and TechnologyEpisode 79 -  How do new employees learn about safety?Episode 19 - Virtual Reality and Safety training

You may find that this conversation makes us look hypocritical, when discussing how to argue. We just want the best outcomes for all discussions regarding safety. Ultimately, this topic came out of some recent intense arguments in the safety field and we wanted to address how to constructively handle disagreements in person and online. Topics:Finding original sources.Figuring out what the original source says.Understanding context.Looking for the overall position of a paper or book.Design vs. behavior.Why new and old ideas aren't mutually exclusive.The line between sharing and evangelizing.Knowledge and evidence that moves the debate forward. Quotes:“Unless an entire field is genuinely pseudoscience, it's always very, very dangerous to dismiss an entire field.”“A lot of the time that there is a disagreement with Safety II, it's basically people saying we shouldn't be throwing out everything to do with Safety I. What we actually need is some kind of middle-ground between Safety I and Safety II.”“A lot of the time, when we argue, there's an implicit assumption that we can only agree with one of the theories, because they're somehow mutually exclusive.”  Resources:Feedback@safetyofwork.com