Finding Our Way

Show Notes About the episode: Dan Saffer—designer, author, and CMU professor—joins Peter and Jesse to take stock of design education at a moment when everything is in flux. What’s worth teaching when the tools change weekly? How do you define quality when AI can spin up a passable prototype in minutes? And what are today’s […]

When the ground is shifting and the destination isn't clear, how do you lead? Peter and Jesse explore the mindset and skills required to navigate the liminal moment—when old ways have dissolved but new ones haven't taken shape. From core mindsets of maintaining situational awareness and striving for balance, to core skills around communication, persuasion and connection to build lifelines, this is a conversation about what it actually takes to lead through uncertainty.

When the ground is shifting and the destination isn't clear, how do you lead? Peter and Jesse explore the mindset and skills required to navigate the liminal moment—when old ways have dissolved but new ones haven't taken shape. From core mindsets of maintaining situational awareness and striving for balance, to core skills around communication, persuasion and connection to build lifelines, this is a conversation about what it actually takes to lead through uncertainty.

When the old ways no longer hold and the new hasn't taken shape, you're in a liminal moment. Peter and Jesse explore what it means to lead through that in-between space—navigating uncertainty without retreating to the past, letting go of what defined you, and finding opportunity in the chaos rather than being consumed by it.

When the old ways no longer hold and the new hasn't taken shape, you're in a liminal moment. Peter and Jesse explore what it means to lead through that in-between space—navigating uncertainty without retreating to the past, letting go of what defined you, and finding opportunity in the chaos rather than being consumed by it.

Stanford professor Christina Wodtke joins Peter and Jesse in exploring the real contradictions of AI in design and product work: revolutionary prototyping speed versus the need for critical thinking, efficiency gains versus cognitive loss, and loving the technology while hating the exploitative companies building it. She shares exactly what designers and PMs must vigilantly protect.

Stanford professor Christina Wodtke joins Peter and Jesse in exploring the real contradictions of AI in design and product work: revolutionary prototyping speed versus the need for critical thinking, efficiency gains versus cognitive loss, and loving the technology while hating the exploitative companies building it. She shares exactly what designers and PMs must vigilantly protect.

Peter and Jesse discuss findings from Peter's survey of 750 UX pracitioners on organizational health. Designers feel good about their work but struggle with quality standards, staffing, and career growth. Senior practitioners are the unhealthiest group. Reporting structure predicts team health. Consulting teams outperform in-house teams, where visionary design capabilities have atrophied and empowerment remains elusive.

Peter and Jesse discuss findings from Peter's survey of 750 UX pracitioners on organizational health. Designers feel good about their work but struggle with quality standards, staffing, and career growth. Senior practitioners are the unhealthiest group. Reporting structure predicts team health. Consulting teams outperform in-house teams, where visionary design capabilities have atrophied and empowerment remains elusive.

Product leader, author, and civic tech veteran Christian Crumlish joins Peter and Jesse to discuss his transition from UX to product management and his experimental AI product manager, Piper Morgan. The conversation explores how product and design roles can be natural allies rather than adversaries, where AI truly adds value versus hype, and how practitioners can thoughtfully adopt new tools while staying grounded in fundamental UX principles and maintaining agency over their practice.

Product leader, author, and civic tech veteran Christian Crumlish joins Peter and Jesse to discuss his transition from UX to product management and his experimental AI product manager, Piper Morgan. The conversation explores how product and design roles can be natural allies rather than adversaries, where AI truly adds value versus hype, and how practitioners can thoughtfully adopt new tools while staying grounded in fundamental UX principles and maintaining agency over their practice.

Figma's Head of Insights Andrew Hogan joins Peter and Jesse to explore emerging trends in design practice as AI transforms creative workflows. The conversation examines how role boundaries are blurring across product teams, where AI delivers real value versus hype, and design's growing opportunity to lead strategic orchestration in increasingly complex digital experiences.

Figma's Head of Insights Andrew Hogan joins Peter and Jesse to explore emerging trends in design practice as AI transforms creative workflows. The conversation examines how role boundaries are blurring across product teams, where AI delivers real value versus hype, and design's growing opportunity to lead strategic orchestration in increasingly complex digital experiences.

Product Discovery coach, teacher, and author Teresa Torres joins Peter and Jesse to explore the messy reality of organizational change and cross-functional collaboration. She discusses why external coaching has limits, how individual contributors can drive change within resistant systems, and what the rise of AI means for blurring roles between product, design, and engineering teams.

Product Discovery coach, teacher, and author Teresa Torres joins Peter and Jesse to explore the messy reality of organizational change and cross-functional collaboration. She discusses why external coaching has limits, how individual contributors can drive change within resistant systems, and what the rise of AI means for blurring roles between product, design, and engineering teams.

Dr. Lesley-Ann Noel, Dean of Design at OCAD, joins Jesse and Peter to discuss her global journey from Trinidad to Toronto, leading design education through relationships over craft, preparing students for social change, and her vision for decolonizing design while navigating the tension between academic values and industry demands.

Dr. Lesley-Ann Noel, Dean of Design at OCAD, joins Jesse and Peter to discuss her global journey from Trinidad to Toronto, leading design education through relationships over craft, preparing students for social change, and her vision for decolonizing design while navigating the tension between academic values and industry demands.

Peter and Jesse are joined by design and business consultant John Gleason. Coming up through P&G's famous design initiative, we get his perspective on design beyond digital products, such as consumer packaged goods, we explore some significant parallels across industries and design domains with important lessons on the pitfalls that lead to diminishing influence for design leaders, and share what they should advocate in order to break the downward spiral.

Peter and Jesse are joined by design and business consultant John Gleason. Coming up through P&G's famous design initiative, we get his perspective on design beyond digital products, such as consumer packaged goods, we explore some significant parallels across industries and design domains with important lessons on the pitfalls that lead to diminishing influence for design leaders, and share what they should advocate in order to break the downward spiral.

Jesse and Peter explore how AI is revealing the true value proposition of design teams. They discuss why "whoever controls the prompt controls the product" and why design leaders must understand their organization's expectations before embracing AI. The more things change, the more they stay the same—AI may be new, but the fundamentals of design leadership remain critical.

Jesse and Peter explore how AI is revealing the true value proposition of design teams. They discuss why "whoever controls the prompt controls the product" and why design leaders must understand their organization's expectations before embracing AI. The more things change, the more they stay the same—AI may be new, but the fundamentals of design leadership remain critical.

Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for design is Amy Lokey, Chief Experience Officer for the enterprise software platform, ServiceNow. We'll be talking about building a team that unifies product experience with customer experience, defining experience metrics that actually matter, investing in her own growth as a leader, and the real implications of AI for digital product design.

Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for design is Amy Lokey, Chief Experience Officer for the enterprise software platform, ServiceNow. We'll be talking about building a team that unifies product experience with customer experience, defining experience metrics that actually matter, investing in her own growth as a leader, and the real implications of AI for digital product design.

Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for design is Dr. Sara Beckman, Professor at Berkeley's Haas School of Business and longtime observer and commentator of the dynamic between design and business. We'll be talking more about the legacy and impact, for better or worse, of design thinking, how design leaders should talk about metrics and how they shouldn't, and what she's learning from educating the next generation of product managers.

Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for design is Dr. Sara Beckman, Professor at Berkeley's Haas School of Business and longtime observer and commentator of the dynamic between design and business. We'll be talking more about the legacy and impact, for better or worse, of design thinking, how design leaders should talk about metrics and how they shouldn't, and what she's learning from educating the next generation of product managers.

Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for design is Todd Wilkens, part of our leadership at Adaptive Path years ago, who has gone from design leadership to product leadership to fully integrated leadership of design, product, and technology. He'll talk with us about his increasingly holistic view of product development and leadership, the signs that an organization is right for him as a leader, and what the C suite really talks about behind closed doors.

Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for design is Todd Wilkens, part of our leadership at Adaptive Path years ago, who has gone from design leadership to product leadership to fully integrated leadership of design, product, and technology. He'll talk with us about his increasingly holistic view of product development and leadership, the signs that an organization is right for him as a leader, and what the C suite really talks about behind closed doors.

Joining Peter and Jesse is business strategist Roger L. Martin, former Dean of the University of Toronto's Rotman School of Management, who advanced the conversation about design and business with his influential work in the late 2000s. We'll talk about the parts of that vision that worked out as well as the parts that didn't, the new forces shaping design's business impact, and what design leaders should be advocating for next from Aristotle to Hermes.

Joining Peter and Jesse is business strategist Roger L. Martin, former Dean of the University of Toronto's Rotman School of Management, who advanced the conversation about design and business with his influential work in the late 2000s. We'll talk about the parts of that vision that worked out as well as the parts that didn't, the new forces shaping design's business impact, and what design leaders should be advocating for next from Aristotle to Hermes.

Head of Philips Design, Peter Skillman, joins Peter and Jesse to share lessons from Philips' century of design innovation, from light bulbs to the compact disc to healthcare technology. We'll also talk about the cultural factors that support design influence, what he learned and had to unlearn from his time in Silicon Valley, and how the game for design leaders has fundamentally changed in recent years.

Head of Philips Design, Peter Skillman, joins Peter and Jesse to share lessons from Philips' century of design innovation, from light bulbs to the compact disc to healthcare technology. We'll also talk about the cultural factors that support design influence, what he learned and had to unlearn from his time in Silicon Valley, and how the game for design leaders has fundamentally changed in recent years.

Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for design is veteran Silicon Valley design and product strategy consultant Audrey Crane, who will share her perspective on the changing mandates for design among her clients, the power that consultants wield that in house teams don't, and why sometimes the most effective design leaders are those who talk the least about design.

Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for design is veteran Silicon Valley design and product strategy consultant Audrey Crane, who will share her perspective on the changing mandates for design among her clients, the power that consultants wield that in house teams don't, and why sometimes the most effective design leaders are those who talk the least about design.

On this show, Peter and Jesse are joined by Gaurav Mathur, VP of Design for Indian e-commerce giant Flipkart. He'll share with us his perspective on the big issues facing design leaders in India today, including hiring and training for junior designers, as well as design leaders making the case for the business impact of design, and the opportunities for design-led startups in the Indian market.

On this show, Peter and Jesse are joined by Gaurav Mathur, VP of Design for Indian e-commerce giant Flipkart. He'll share with us his perspective on the big issues facing design leaders in India today, including hiring and training for junior designers, as well as design leaders making the case for the business impact of design, and the opportunities for design-led startups in the Indian market.

Joining us to talk about what's next for digital product design is Leslie Witt, chief product and design officer for mental health care platform Headspace. Along the way, she'll share with us her journey from designer to design leader to P&L business leader, she'll also talk about building the credibility for a broader mandate for design as well as for yourself as a leader, and what to do when your intellectual tendencies get the better of you.

Joining us to talk about what's next for digital product design is Leslie Witt, chief product and design officer for mental health care platform Headspace. Along the way, she'll share with us her journey from designer to design leader to P&L business leader, she'll also talk about building the credibility for a broader mandate for design as well as for yourself as a leader, and what to do when your intellectual tendencies get the better of you.

Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for digital product design is John Cutler, veteran product manager and product management consultant. Along the way, we'll discuss what product leaders know that design leaders don't, facing ambiguity and uncertainty from executives, and how design leaders can more effectively advocate for the true value of their team's work.

Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for digital product design is John Cutler, veteran product manager and product management consultant. Along the way, we'll discuss what product leaders know that design leaders don't, facing ambiguity and uncertainty from executives, and how design leaders can more effectively advocate for the true value of their team's work.

Anne Pascual, VP and Head of Design for European fashion e-commerce giant Zalando, joins Peter and Jesse to talk about driving innovation in a mature product category, the differences between leading design for an agency and leading design in-house, and creating a culture of trust at scale.

Anne Pascual, VP and Head of Design for European fashion e-commerce giant Zalando, joins Peter and Jesse to talk about driving innovation in a mature product category, the differences between leading design for an agency and leading design in-house, and creating a culture of trust at scale.

Koji Pereira, Chief Design Officer for Brazilian fintech Neon, joins Peter and Jesse to talk about his career journey from Brazil to Silicon Valley and back again, finding the balance between speed and quality, and strategies for making the design team and the design process more inclusive

Koji Pereira, Chief Design Officer for Brazilian fintech Neon, joins Peter and Jesse to talk about his career journey from Brazil to Silicon Valley and back again, finding the balance between speed and quality, and strategies for making the design team and the design process more inclusive

Vuokko Aro, VP of Design for the UK's popular digital-only bank Monzo, joins Peter and Jesse to talk about shifting your design approach as your company scales, building a true peer relationship with product leadership, and creating a sense of togetherness for remote and embedded teams.

Vuokko Aro, VP of Design for the UK's popular digital-only bank Monzo, joins Peter and Jesse to talk about shifting your design approach as your company scales, building a true peer relationship with product leadership, and creating a sense of togetherness for remote and embedded teams.

Jesse and Peter grapple with the prevailing discourse around design leadership, the shift occurring from what design has been to what it is becoming, the ego death necessary for leaders to embrace their potential, and the opportunity for professionalism.

Jesse and Peter grapple with the prevailing discourse around design leadership, the shift occurring from what design has been to what it is becoming, the ego death necessary for leaders to embrace their potential, and the opportunity for professionalism.

Christina Goldschmidt joins Peter and Jesse to reflect on her first 60 days on the job as the newly appointed VP of product design for the music industry giant Warner Music Group. She offers thoughts on getting up to speed and finding early success as an incoming leader, profiling your stakeholders as if they were users, the leadership power of personal vulnerability. (Recorded November 2023, published March 2024)

Christina Goldschmidt joins Peter and Jesse to reflect on her first 60 days on the job as the newly appointed VP of product design for the music industry giant Warner Music Group. She offers thoughts on getting up to speed and finding early success as an incoming leader, profiling your stakeholders as if they were users, the leadership power of personal vulnerability. (Recorded November 2023, published March 2024)

LEGO's Rebecca Nordstrom leads the team designing the software they use to produce those billions of little bricks. She joins us today to talk about bringing UX to the factory floor, measuring success when user adoption is mandatory, and the differences between leading design in North America and in Europe.

LEGO's Rebecca Nordstrom leads the team designing the software they use to produce those billions of little bricks. She joins us today to talk about bringing UX to the factory floor, measuring success when user adoption is mandatory, and the differences between leading design in North America and in Europe.