New Conversations About Abortion: The ProGrace Podcast

Michael Wear joins Angela for a conversation about how we should move forward after the election as grace-filled Christians. Their discussion dives into how to make the most of this moment by offering a positive vision for life: not just fending off the bad but pursuing the good. How can we tap into the grace that God offers each of us to be humble in our interactions and imagine positive possibilities for the future? Guest Bio:Micheal Wear is founder, president, and CEO of the Center for Christianity and Public Life, a nonpartisan, nonprofit institution based in the nation's capital with the mission to contend for the credibility of Christian resources in public life, for the public good. He has served as a trusted resource and advisor for a range of civic leaders on matters of faith and public life for the last fifteen years, including as a White House and presidential campaign staffer. Wear previously led Public Square Strategies, a consulting firm he founded that helps religious organizations, political organizations, businesses and others effectively navigate the rapidly changing American religious and political landscape. He is the author of "The Spirit of Our Politics: Spiritual Formation and the Renovation of Public Life," which argues that the kind of people we are has much to do with the kind of politics and public life we will have.Links:- Follow @ccpubliclife on social media and @MichaelRWear on X- Center for Christianity and Public Life: www.ccpubliclife.org- Michael's book, The Spirit of Our Politics: Spiritual Formation and the Renovation of Public Life: https://www.michaelwear.com/spirit-of-our-politics

In this episode of The ProGrace Podcast, Angela recaps some of our previous guests' most helpful advice as we enter the last few weeks of a contentious election season. Hear from Kaitlyn Scheiss, Skye Jethani, Andrew Hanauer, Christy Vines, Amy Peeler, and Laura McAlpine on ways we can prioritize people instead of politics. Episodes featured: Andrew Hanauer from One America Movement: https://www.prograce.org/podcasts/the-prograce-podcast/episodes/2148861711 Kaitlyn Schiess, author and speaker: https://www.prograce.org/podcasts/the-prograce-podcast/episodes/2148628778 Dr. Amy Peeler: https://www.prograce.org/podcasts/the-prograce-podcast/episodes/2148341917 Skye Jethani: https://www.prograce.org/podcasts/the-prograce-podcast/episodes/2148027627 Christy Vines from Ideos Institute: https://www.prograce.org/podcasts/the-prograce-podcast/episodes/2147994081 Laura McAlpine:https://www.prograce.org/podcasts/new-conversations-about-abortion-the-prograce-podcast/episodes/2147946246 Conversation guide link: https://www.prograce.org/ndod Leaders Cohort interest list: www.prograce.org/groups

Our world seems to become more divided by the day. We are ending relationships over differences in opinion on political matters. How can we restore unity to our families and communities? In this episode, Angela talks with Andrew Hanauer, the President and CEO of the One America Movement, an organization founded by faith leaders to fight toxic polarization, about how faith communities and leaders can work to model unity during increasingly divisive times. In Andrew's words: “politics will not fill the Spiritual holes in our lives,” but he believes that Scripture holds the answers we seek. Many of us feel that we can have little or no impact on culture or politics, but we have a lot of impact within our communities. Can we work together in the places where we can make an impact and effect meaningful change? How can our faith communities meet our needs so that we do not need to turn to political groups to find our identity?Guest BioAndrew Hanauer is the President and CEO of the One America Movement, an organization founded by faith leaders to fight toxic polarization. One America supports faith leaders and faith communities to reject toxic forms of division and offer a moral vision that transcends our divisive and disconnected culture. Under Andrew's leadership, the One America Movement has become one of the largest and fastest-growing organizations combating division in American society, quintupling in size in the past three years.Andrew is a frequent public speaker at houses of worship of all kinds and has represented One America before gatherings of the National Governors' Association, Americorps, Points of Light, the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, and many more, and podcasts as wide-ranging as Fuller Seminary and Islamic Relief USA. His work has been published or featured by USA Today, The Washington Post, National Public Radio, Salon, the Christian Citizen, and media outlets across the US.When he is not fighting toxic polarization, Andrew is spending time with his family, coaching little league, rooting for the Golden State Warriors and Arkansas Razorbacks, and participating in small groups at his church.LinksDownload the ProGrace Conversation Guide: https://www.prograce.org/about One America Movement website: https://oneamericamovement.org/One America Movement Substack: https://oneamericamovement.substack.com/

Things are heating up politically and socially as the United States prepares for a presidential election, and abortion is on everyone's minds and ballots. You may be feeling overwhelmed, worn out, or stuck. What is Jesus asking us to do when it comes to abortion, and how should we, as Christians, behave during the politically divisive season we are in now? In this episode, Angela Weszely speaks from the heart about what this tense climate means for us as Christians, how we can engage in a way that makes people feel safe and represents Jesus, and why we should have hope now that God is working in these divisive times. Answering questions from the ProGrace audience, Angela gives insight into frequently asked questions such as what opinion we should hold on abortion as Christians, how and why men should speak on this issue, and more.Show Notes:Matthew 9:9-13 - The Calling of MatthewLuke 19:1-10 - Zacchaeus the tax collectorMark 3:1-6 - Jesus heals on the SabbathMatthew 26:6-13 - Woman who anointed Jesus' feetJohn 1:17 - For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.Transform Cohort information & registration: www.prograce.org/groupseBook: www.prograce.org/ebookSubmit your questions and difficult topics by emailing support@prograce.org

In this episode, author and Holy Post co-host Kaitlyn Schiess breaks down what it means to be a politically responsible Christian. As a theologian, Kaitlyn understands both the Biblical importance and limitations of legislation to solve the problems we are faced with, as well as the fine line we must walk between the two. In this conversation, she and Angela break down the questions that many of us have about how to be politically active in a way that respects and reflects our faith, the pull of political parties on our identity, and how to keep our priorities in the right place through it all. What does the Bible say about political involvement? How have past religiously-driven campaigns for legislation solved, or failed to solve, the societal problem they intended to address? Where do Christians belong in political movements and conversations? If you are overwhelmed by constant political messaging, this episode will give you clear direction and answers to some of our most significant political questions.Guest BioKaitlyn Schiess is an author, speaker, and perpetual theology student. She is the author of The Ballot and the Bible (Brazos, 2023) and The Liturgy of Politics (IVP, 2020), and her writing has appeared in Christianity Today, The New York Times, Christ and Pop Culture, RELEVANT, and Sojourner. She is a co-host and Senior Editor of the Holy Post podcast, and the host of Curiously, Kaitlyn. She has a ThM in systematic theology from Dallas Theological Seminary and is currently a doctoral student in theology at Duke Divinity School.LinksKaitlyn's website: kaitlynschiess.comKaitlyn's new podcast: http://holypost.com/curiously The Ordinance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP7CFMIttGQ

Andrea Leigh Capuyan, Executive Director of the LPC in the Baltimore/Washington DC metro area and ProGrace Equip learning community member, discusses how her life experience and grace changed how she and her organization operate. Rejecting industry norms and standards, Andrea has allowed her own experience and faith, as well as the ProGrace community and resources, to guide her toward a more empathetic and loving standard of care in her organization.Andrea faced an unintended pregnancy at 25, not at a time in her life in which she felt capable of raising a child. Her own experiences, both good and bad, with religious pregnancy centers impacted her stance on the goals and methods she would later employ as the Executive Director of LPC. Andrea is uniquely qualified to understand the guilt, shame, and panic that her clients experience and has reimagined her organization's response to unintended pregnancy support. She also has a unique story to tell the church about how we can and must treat people more like Jesus does.Guest BioAndrea Leigh Capuyan serves on the board of the Center for Steward Leader Studies, and she is the executive director for the Laurel Pregnancy Center (the LPC) - a local counseling-based ministry with limited medical services for pregnancy support care and helping anyone impacted by reproductive loss, and post-abortion grief. The LPC team is centered on Christ, believing that God meets us in life's most challenging circumstances. The LPC team is an awesome testimony to the power and hope of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, reminding us that our story isn't over, and in situations of life and death, God resurrects and renews. There is always hope.Links: ProGrace Equip membership for direct service organizations: https://www.prograce.org/pregnancy-orgs ProGrace Transform: https://www.prograce.org/groups Center for Steward Leader Studies: https://www.thecsls.org/ Laurel Pregnancy Center: http://lpcpartners.org/

In this episode, Angela talks to Christian Pregnancy Center COO Kristen Lonberger of Living Alternatives about their center's desire to treat their clients in a way that is congruent with their faith. They discuss how the practices of traditional pregnancy centers can make women feel shame and guilt, and how the staff at Living Alternatives has worked to ensure that their practices are both ethical and representative of Jesus. Guest BioKristen Lonberger is Chief Operations Officer for Living Alternatives Pregnancy Resource Center; a faith-based non-profit organization that serves Illinois and Indiana. She holds a bachelor's degree in Psychology from Olivet Nazarene University and is working on her Master's in Organizational Leadership. Kristen seeks to empower others and is driven by the purpose of helping people step forward into freedom and a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ. In addition to her role at Living Alternatives, Kristen is the Director of Family Ministries at Christ's Community Church of the Nazarene in New Albany, IN. Kristen is an avid reader and plant lover; she has been married to her husband, Dr. Carlos Lonberger, since 2003, and they have four sons together.Living Alternatives is committed to providing excellent care, compassionate support, and honest information to those facing pregnancy decisions through authentic relationships that display grace, honor life, and foster community. All services, resources, information, and emotional support are offered at no cost to the client.LinksProGrace Equip membership for direct service organizations: https://www.prograce.org/pregnancy-orgs ProGrace Transform: https://www.prograce.org/groups Living Alternatives: https://livingalternatives.org/ More thoughts on grace from Phillip Yancey: https://philipyancey.com/q-and-a-topics/grace

In this episode, Angela discusses her recent experience participating in the National Day of Dialogue (NDOD) 2024. The event taught practical tools for having more constructive conversations. She explains the ABCs of Constructive Dialogue and how she learned to use them to increase understanding. She also recounts a time she used these skills in conversation with someone who held opposing views and how the conversation resulted in understanding, empathy, and even friendship. This episode will give you the hope and encouragement to navigate this election year and grow your faith in these divisive times. Show Notes: Download our FREE resource guide here: https://www.prograce.org/pl/2148165368 Ground Rules for Justice-Centered Conversations https://www.uraction.org https://www.nationaldayofdialogue.com

Guest: Dr. Amy PeelerTo have new conversations about abortion, we need to step inside people's stories. Women specifically can sometimes wonder where they can find their place in the story of God's family. We're celebrating this season of Advent by exploring how the coming of Jesus to reconcile God and humanity begins with a pregnancy story. Join Angela and her guest, Dr. Amy Peeler, the Kenneth T. Wessner Chair of Biblical Studies at Wheaton College, a priest in the Episcopal Church (USA), and the author of Women and the Gender of God (Eerdmans, 2022). They unpack the story of Mary, the mother of Jesus, through the lens of her pregnancy experience. And they walk through the deeper truths this story illustrates about God's compassion and equal value for both the woman and the child. How can He hold His plan for the Son to become human and Mary's agency in that plan without contradiction? As we celebrate Christmas, we sit with this reality of God's intention for Mary's place in the salvation story. Links: Women and the Gender of God by Dr. Amy Peeler - https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802879097/ Amy references the painting: Mary consoles Eve by Grace Remington Referenced Prayer:(Book of Common Prayer, Rite II, Prayer B, p. 368) We give thanks to you, O God, for the goodness and lovewhich you have made known to us in creation; in the callingof Israel to be your people; in your Word spoken through theprophets; and above all in the Word made flesh, Jesus, yourSon. For in these last days you sent him to be incarnate fromthe Virgin Mary, to be the Savior and Redeemer of the world.In him, you have delivered us from evil, and made us worthyto stand before you. In him, you have brought us out of errorinto truth, out of sin into righteousness, out of death into life.

Guest: Lisa Fields, Founder and CEO Jude 3 Project Experiences, hurt, and trauma always filter how we receive information. So, if we ignore people's lived experiences, we miss the opportunity for connection that leads to transformation. In this episode, Angela sits with Lisa Fields, Founder and CEO of The Jude 3 Project, about the importance of having conversations around divisive issues like abortion and racial divides in the church. They discuss the need for Christians to model their approach after Jesus, not politics, and to listen to others' experiences with empathy and understanding. They also emphasize the importance of humility, recognizing our participation in the problem to foster compassion and reconciliation. Overall, the conversation highlights the need to receive the grace of God, to give grace to others, and how open dialogue to address these complex issues within the church is necessary to connect with the next generation. Links: Donations: Give Now at https://www.prograce.org/giveCourageous Conversations 2023 is available on demand https://www.courageousconvos.org/ AND Campaign https://andcampaign.org/ Book: Mere Apologetics by Alister McGrath

“We're in a time where people need healing, and the Church is the answer for that. Jesus is the answer, but [knowing] Jesus through the Church is critical. [If pastors only] knew how much people needed the Church—not the politics of the Church, not all of the theology of the Church, but just the Church in action.” Thoughts on Mission & Ministry FROM LEADERS IN URBAN CHURCHES & COMMUNITIES, Page 12 Pastors have a God-given opportunity to lead their church to impact communities for the common good. Listen as Angela welcomes Dr. Alvin Sanders, President and CEO of World Impact, an organization that trains and equips church leaders and workers to serve in urban areas. World Impact and the Barna Group released a study this month: Inside the Urban Church – How local congregations engage with and impact their communities (October 2023). With a representative sample across eight major US metros, this quantitative and qualitative study heard from a cross-section of pastors, community, civic leaders, and churched and unchurched participants. One of the many key findings of the study was that churched and unchurched respondents saw the church as a safe space to wrestle with and help figure out the moral issues of the day; thus, urban churches have a huge opportunity to convene discussions that bring understanding and healing through God's truth. “The study also revealed that metro residents inside and outside the Church think Christian churches are well-positioned to address the problem of loneliness. This finding is notable for highlighting the top issue locals entrust to churches and as a sign of common ground in perceptions among the churched and unchurched.” (Page 22) Both these insights offer encouragement on how we can have new conversations on abortion in our churches and be perceived as safe to approach for help. In this episode, Angela and Dr. Sanders discuss their hope and mutual love for the Church to be as Christ designed, a place of grace and belonging to reflect the kingdom in a secularized world. How can the Church be ready to receive people with the love God intended? Links: World Impact: https://www.worldimpact.org/ DePaul University's website on Asset Based Community Developmenthttps://resources.depaul.edu/abcd-institute/Pages/default.aspx The study can be purchased here: https://shop.barna.com/collections/frontpage/products/inside-the-urban-church Also, here is a study we didn't mention but is very relevant:https://www.churchandculture.org/blog/2023/9/14/the-late-great-planet-church Books Mentioned: Uncommon Church – By Alvin Sanders (uncommonchurches.com) (https://uncommonchurches.com/) Bridging the Diversity Gap - buy on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Bridging-Diversity-Gap-Leading-Multi-Ethnic/dp/0898276780)

Research shows that many people in our culture have positive personal experiences with individual Christians in their lives but a negative perception of Christian institutions and how they interact in the public square. How do we bridge that gap and show up differently on contentious issues like abortion, especially after the overturn of Roe v. Wade? In this episode, Angela welcomes her friend, noted author, speaker, former pastor, and host of the Holy Post Podcast, Skye Jethani. Listen as they discuss his book What if Jesus Was Serious About the Church and explain how the political abortion debate fuels the divide. How can church leaders change this perception to bring healing and unity to the body of Christ? How do we lay down the political idolatry, refocus our allegiance to our representation of Jesus, and mark our churches safe for much-needed dialogue? “Politics did not create the abortion problem in this country, and politics alone will not solve it.” - Skye Jethani

Angela interviews Rev. Dr. Darice Wright, Associate Pastor of Life Church in suburban Chicago, for an eye-opening conversation on her work to help pastors disciple people in racial reconciliation - and how she discovered that extending grace is essential to healing. They discuss how we can apply grace to discussions on gender, the political divide, and how we, the Church, show up for those who experience unintended pregnancy and abortion. Together they go back to Barbieland to uncover themes art can reveal about this cultural moment and how we can catalyze God's way of doing and being in our world.

A nonpolitical discussion about the Barbie movie is important because it touches many people. It's sparking a cultural conversation about how women and men relate to each other, which must be healthy if we're going to have conversations that lead to empathy and understanding of divisive social issues like abortion that the Church is called to address. Listen in as Angela and her special guest Simone Halpin, CEO of Naomi House, unpack their takeaways from the Barbie Movie and connect it to their personal stories. Using art and comedy, can the movie be one tool to help us deconstruct some teachings we have absorbed about gender inequality from culture and the Church and replace them with true Biblical principles? As leaders of organizations that work for the social good, Simone and Angela discuss the importance of women and men in the Church coming together for nonpolitical conversations around gender issues that reflect God's intention of partnership.Spoiler alert: If you plan to see the Barbie Movie, storylines, scenes, and themes are discussed. Click on the links below for the resources mentioned during the episode:https://www.naomishouse.org Books: She Deserves Better: Raising Girls to Resist Toxic Teachings on Sex, Self, and Speaking Up The Great Sex Rescue: The Lies You've Been Taught and How to Recover What God Intended We encourage you to read and listen to the following for further resources. We appreciate how these two Christian leaders with different theological interpretations on women's roles agree on the Biblical imperative to prevent toxic gender narratives by following the example of Jesus.https://www.churchandculture.org/church-culture-podcasthttps://www.holypost.com/post/neither-barbie-nor-ken

What's in a story? We all have one. Hearing a person's story requires listening to understand and identify the connecting points. What if we stopped the back and forth in the abortion debate to emphatically listen to the other side? In this episode, Angela sits down with Christy Vines, President and CEO of Ideos Institute, who introduces us to how she and her team use Empathic Intelligence (EmQ) to transform spaces of division. The results advance empathy, transform systems, and inspire solutions. As with the ProGrace approach to help Christians think, talk, and engage differently in unintended pregnancy and abortion conversations, Ideos Institute uses Jesus' teaching model to help people navigate contentious topics to find common ground. Learn how you can retrain your brain to do a different job of moving from debate to dialogue by putting yourself in someone's story. For more on Ideos Institute, see the show notes below, including their groundbreaking documentary Dialogue Lab: America. LINKS: 1. Dialogue Lab: America | Documentary Film (2022): https://youtu.be/RJA7W3hQggEIdeos Institute official website: https://ideosinstitute.org/ 2. Narrative 4: https://narrative4.com/3. Barna study: https://www.barna.com/research/polarization-2015-2022/5. Christy LinkedIn profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/christyvines/

Are you a person who wrestles with how conversations about abortion are happening (or not happening) in our churches? If so, listen as Angela unpacks how Christians can find common ground aside from political binary views and meet from a place of empathy based on her journey. If we believe that God loves the woman and the child equally, how can we focus on what we agree on, position the Church as the solution, and open safe spaces to meet people where they are? Resources: Barna Group: Openness to Jesus Isn't the Problem—the Church Is, May 17, 2023 ProGrace: Discussion Topic: Conversations with Christians, July 30, 2018

If you don't feel at home in either Pro-Life or Pro-Choice, welcome to the ProGrace podcast. Angela Weszely, CEO and co-founder of ProGrace invites you into a conversation on how to rise above the political divide and develop a compassionate approach. She founded ProGrace to equip Christians with a new way to think, talk, and engage around abortion so we can create safe spaces for conversations. Let's model our approach after Jesus, not politics. Listen on Apple Podcasts | Listen on Google Podcasts | Listen on Spotify

Denise and Angie talk with Anne Waddell, former Executive Director of Central Alberta Pregnancy Care Centre in Canada and current Director of Outreach with ProGrace. Anne has an incredible passion to have conversations not only with Christians but throughout our communities. When she talks, people are inspired to look at the issue of abortion in a new way - you will be. too! 

Skye Jethani created a video on abortion and politics for the Holy Post podcast which came out a month before the November 2020 election and received 1 million views. Angie asks him about the responses to his video from Christians, and what that means for us moving forward. You can watch Skye's video here: https://www.holypost.com/post/but-what-about-abortion  

In the midst of the debate around how Supreme Court Justices and the President impact abortion laws, Angie, Denise, Lacey, and Krysta talk about what it would mean for Christians if Roe vs. Wade was overturned and abortion was suddenly illegal. To do this, we unpack the questions: What is our primary responsibility as followers of Christ? What is Jesus calling us to do? And what's going to bring the most positive change? 

Angie and Denise are joined by Lacey Mason and Krysta Masciale, our new ProGrace team members. We talk about how exhausting it can feel to be passionate about new conversations around abortion during a divisive election season. And we talk about how we've been navigating that.

Tim Ahlman and Jake Boessling pastor Christ's Greenfield Lutheran Church in Gilbert, AZ. They want to reflect the heart of Jesus in how they address abortion in their church, and talk about the journey they have been on to do that. They also host their own podcast, Lead Time, so we talk about leadership practices that help us all enter into difficult topics and try to engage them like Jesus would. 

Jeff Logsdon is lead pastor of Hope City Church in Tucson, AZ. He has been on this ProGrace journey with us for the past 2 years, and we are inspired by how he is making his church a safe place for anyone during an unintended pregnancy or after an abortion.  And his journey starts with being honest about his own experience. We were blown away by the way he freely shared his story with us, and we know you will be, too! Jeff shows us what can happen when we have the courage to look inside first. The change starts with us...

Tammy Abernethy is the Executive Director/CEO of Hope Women's Center, a Christian non-profit organization in the Phoenix area that provides vulnerable women and teen girls with education, mentoring, and support.  Tammy has a lot of discussion with church leaders, and sees what keep Christians from engaging in conversations about unintended pregnancy and abortion. Can "grace go too far?" Do we need to focus on "sin" and "brokenness"? Are we the ones who are to judge? And what about people who feel like "the church doesn't want me?" We talk about it!!

We're back with Laura McAlpine! Because she asked us at the end of Episode 4, "why don't you ever ask me the hard questions?" So we did. We tell Laura the number one stereotype we hear from Christians about folks who are pro-choice. She is surprised, and takes us on her journey of being a doula, leading a women's health center, and a self-described "birth junkie."

Laura McAlpine is Principal of McAlpine Consulting for Growth, and works with us to build bridges in the abortion conversation. She is pro-choice and doesn't identify as Christian. Denise and Angie are Christians creating this new space of ProGrace. Laura listened to all our Season 1 podcasts to see where pro-choice and/or people not of the Christian tradition would be triggered by those conversations. And she tells us in this podcast! 

Amy is the Co-Founder and President of Embrace Grace, a non-profit that inspires and equips the church to love on single and pregnant young women and their families. When Amy became pregnant at 19, her boyfriend Ryan approached his mentor, but he refused to marry them because "they had sinned." They continued going to church after getting married, but felt alone in a crowd of people because no one knew what to say.  Years later, Ryan's mentor approached them asking for forgiveness. It's amazing to us how readily Amy and Ryan forgave him! This whole experience is woven into all that Embrace Grace does, and the passion they share with ProGrace to see the church become the safest place for pregnant women.

Tracey Laroche and Jeanelle Drysdale Miller are the hosts of the web series, Life with Tray and Jea. They are both Caribbean African American and from Brooklyn - Denise and Angie are white and from Illinois. So we asked them to be really honest with us about what would make it hard for Christians from different ethnic backgrounds to work together to have new conversations about abortion. We know this won't be the last time we have a conversation about this! It's SO important, and we gave each other grace to be honest, which made this conversation freeing, nor scary. The only way we can move forward is to have these types of interactions, so we look forward to having each other “in our kitchen” and building true community.

Jonathan Merritt is an award-winning writer on religion, culture, and politics. He also describes himself as a Christian mystic, so we loved this thoughtful conversation about: - How a white man can have a humble posture in the abortion conversation - Asking questions like Jesus did - Walking with people who are facing an abortion decision -Why the words pro-life and pro-choice are effective but not precise - How something being a "fact" is different than it being the "whole truth"

Dr. Juli Slattery, founder of Authentic Intimacy and host of the Java with Juli podcast, interviews Angie on current events. We talk about the recent abortion laws, both pro-life and pro-choice, wrestling through how much of our Christian response to abortion has been political. We also talk about the movie, "Unplanned." 

Dr. Juli Slattery is founder of Authentic Intimacy and host of the Java with Juli podcast. Angie asks her the tough questions around why we are mostly silent on sexuality in the church - until a woman faces an unintended pregnancy. Juli has such a rich perspective on grace, God's intentionality for sex, and how we can all move toward wholeness - together. It's not us vs. them. It's us. When we can admit that we all face sexual brokenness on some level, we can begin to journey together. 

Brian Kruckenberg is Lead Pastor and JJ Spreitzer is Family Ministries Director at New City Church in Phoenix. They are on a journey of asking questions, listening, helping their congregation process the abortion issue, and changing the conversation in their church. We talk about grace, mistakes, labels and God's transformational journey for all of us. 

Lacey Mason is a qualitative researcher and strategic consultant. She has conducted 6 research projects with women facing unintended pregnancy, even though she initially dreaded diving into the topic because of the political tension. Based on this research, she helps us process and more deeply understand a woman's reality. Understanding leads to empathy, and empathy changes how we think and talk about abortion. Which can ultimately elevate the conversation out of politics and into supporting individuals. 

This is the second part of our conversation with Laura McAlpine, where we talk about how we can shatter the pro-life and pro-choice stereotypes that keep us from talking to people who have differing views on abortion.  This is the journey we all have been on, so we know others can go on it, too!

Laura is Principal of McAlpine Consulting for Growth in Chicago. We met her 8 years ago, when we were leading a Christian pregnancy organization. We quickly found out she was strongly pro-choice, disagreed with the practices of our organization, and had even tried to shut down our organization years before. Whaat?!  With a lot of laughter, we talk about how we met, why we kept on talking, what triggered us - and why we are now good friends who work together to help others find common ground.  

Dennae is Executive Director of Surge Network, Tyler is Lead Pastor of Redemption AZ, and they partner together to help pastors lead healthy churches.  We talk about why they want to have a new conversation in Arizona churches - one where we humanize the abortion issue by interacting with people who have different views and/or experiences than we have had. They also share how they have created a healthy working relationship amidst the current tensions around men and women working together in churches. 

Chris is the CEO of Avail, an organization supporting women facing unintended pregnancy in New York City. We talk about her reaction to the abortion law passed in New York, and what it tells us about real human needs in our culture. And how Jesus responded when He encountered people in need.   

Talitha Phillips is CEO of Claris Health LA (an organization that equips and cares for individuals and families before, during and after pregnancy or sexual-health choices), and Scott Mehl is Lead Pastor of Cornerstone Church West LA - and they have an amazing partnership. Scott has realized he can't stay silent and assume people will think the church has a holistic, nonpolitical view. But he has to present the complexity about all people involved in order to facilitate compassion. Talitha talks about how silence and fear of sharing our own personal experiences keeps Christians from extending grace to the people impacted by abortion.

Katelyn Beaty is a writer, a book author and an editor at Brazos Press. We met several years ago when she was the managing editor at Christianity Today (youngest and first female to have that position!). Katelyn describes herself as committed to women's rights and pro-life at the same time, and we explore how we as Christians can understand and value the woman - with a special invitation for Christian men to respectfully engage. She also talks about her desire to have common ground conversations with folks who are pro-choice and how we might do that. 

We always appreciate Skye's ability to blend cultural and theological insight to address current issues - and he did not disappoint in this podcast! Drawing on Skye's knowledge of history, we talk about how outlawing something without addressing the true cause hasn't worked historically. And of course Skye blends that with a rich theological analysis of Jesus' ministry model, which we love, because who can argue with how Jesus did things?? We think you will love this conversation as much as we did!

We talk about how we stumbled into the pro-life/pro-choice debate, were a bit shocked, made a lot of mistakes and eventually landed in a place of wanting to have new conversations. Our journey has been impacted by our experience, our faith, and lots of discussion. If you've ever felt like trying to talk about abortion is a no-win situation, we've got a fresh take!