Podcasts about Wheaton College

Words matter — and a post-fight interview at a White House UFC event where a fighter dropped F-bombs, thanked Jesus, and then spread a conspiracy theory about Michelle Obama is Exhibit A. Brian From doesn't let it slide, and his point isn't political: when you claim the name of Jesus publicly, how you speak and how you treat people reflects on Him. From there, a meditation on Ephesians 3:20 and the power of expectation — do you still believe God is doing immeasurably more than you could ask or imagine, or has your faith quietly settled into apathy? Brian makes the case that awe is the fuel of a growing faith, and walks through what that looks like from Moses at the burning bush to Peter at the miraculous catch of fish. A heartfelt reflection on two young Wheaton College alumni lost in a Lake Michigan drowning tragedy. And a closing devotion on the unconditional love of God — not just that He loves you, but that the unconditional part is the part most of us struggle to actually believe.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode, Ben Norquist and Brian Miller make the case that American Christians have become a placeless, rootless people and that we are shaped by inherited land stories. That our land is exceptional. That property is something to wall off. That the ground exists to be taken and turned into wealth. We dig into where these stories came from, how they affect our faith, and why it matters that Scripture opens with God calling place good. We talk about how to read the place you actually live, whose stories get monuments and whose get erased, and what better land stories, ones shaped more like Jesus, might look like.Dr. Ben Norquist is a writer, researcher, and communications strategist whose work explores how Christian understandings of land shape mora/l imagination and public life. He serves with the Bethlehem Institute for Peace & Justice, engaging American Christians on questions of theology, justice, and the realities in Palestine. He is co-author of Every Somewhere Sacred: Rescuing a Theology of Place in the American Imagination (InterVarsity Press, 2026).Brian Miller (PhD, University of Notre Dame) is professor of sociology at Wheaton College and regularly teaches about and publishes on Christian residential and cultural patterns. His books include Sanctifying Suburbia: How the Suburbs Becamethe Promised Land for American Evangelicals and Building Faith: A Sociology of Religious Structures, coauthored with Robert Brenneman.Ben & Brian's Book:Every Somewhere SacredConnect with Joshua: jjohnson@shiftingculturepodcast.comGo to www.shiftingculturepodcast.com to interact and donate. Every donation helps to produce more podcasts for you to enjoy.Follow on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Threads, Bluesky or YouTubeSupport the podcast and the ministry that my wife and I do around the world. Just click on the support the show link below Support the show

What if the pressure you're under right now isn't a sign that something is going wrong — but that something is being built? We live in a world that treats discomfort as a problem to be solved and pressure as a threat to be escaped. But Christine Caine opens Hebrews with a different diagnosis entirely: the pressure isn't the enemy of your faith. It's the furnace where your faith becomes real. In week 3 of our summer series, Christine Caine closes the Root phase with the message that connects everything: faith, endurance, and pressure don't just coexist — they're designed to work together. James 1 tells us the testing of faith produces endurance. Endurance produces the rooted character that holds a flourishing life. Roots don't grow in comfort. They grow in resistance. This is the last week of the Root phase. Next week everything shifts — and you need this foundation under you before it does. ✨ If you've ever asked questions like… ✅ How do I keep going in my faith when I'm exhausted and everything feels hard? ✅ Is it okay to feel like I want to quit — and what do I do with that feeling? ✅ Why does God allow so much pressure and pain if He's for me? ✅ What does it mean to run with endurance — is that just white-knuckling it? ✅ How do I stop running from hard things and start growing through them? ✅ What does the "great cloud of witnesses" actually mean for me in my daily life? ✅ How do I build roots strong enough to hold everything God is calling me toward? …then this is your episode.

In a Trinitarian passage, Jesus (the Son) declares, "I will ask the Father, and he will give you another παράκλητος (parakletos), to be with you forever." The understanding of that Greek designation of the Holy Spirit is critical for grasping the promise of Jesus, the assurance it contains, and the marks of its fulfillment. Dr. Phil Ryken, who has been a regular on our podcast, is the President of Wheaton College, 8th in the college's history. His most recent book is I Have My Doubts: How God Can Use Your Uncertainty to Reawaken Your Faith. You can hear many of his talks at Family Life Ministry – Podcast or at Every Last Word.   Check out related programs at Wheaton College: B.A. in Classical Languages (Greek, Latin, Hebrew): https://bit.ly/4wqxtaq  M.A. in Biblical Exegesis: https://bit.ly/48FmVtH 

This message was given by the late Rev. Howard E. Tucker, pastor of the former Calvary Presbyterian Church in Wilkinsburg, PA.  He was a graduate of Wheaton College and Dallas Theological Seminary.  The sermons were first broadcast on Pittsburgh's radio station, KDKA, during the fifties, sixties, and seventies.They can now be heard every Sunday evening on Pittsburgh's radio station WORD FM 101.5 or WORDFM.com at 9:45 PM, or 24/7 by typing in "Timeless Treasures from God's Word" in the search bar of your computer or smart phone.  Pastor Tucker's son, Timothy, now voices the messages.

This message was given by the late Rev. Howard E. Tucker, pastor of the former Calvary Presbyterian Church in Wilkinsburg, PA.  He was a graduate of Wheaton College and Dallas Theological Seminary.  The sermons were first broadcast on Pittsburgh's radio station, KDKA, during the fifties, sixties, and seventies.They can now be heard every Sunday evening on Pittsburgh's radio station WORD FM 101.5 or WORDFM.com at 9:45 PM, or 24/7 by typing in "Timeless Treasures from God's Word" in the search bar of your computer or smart phone.  Pastor Tucker's son, Timothy, now voices the messages.

This message was given by the late Rev. Howard E. Tucker, pastor of the former Calvary Presbyterian Church in Wilkinsburg, PA.  He was a graduate of Wheaton College and Dallas Theological Seminary.  The sermons were first broadcast on Pittsburgh's radio station, KDKA, during the fifties, sixties, and seventies.They can now be heard every Sunday evening on Pittsburgh's radio station WORD FM 101.5 or WORDFM.com at 9:45 PM, or 24/7 by typing in "Timeless Treasures from God's Word" in the search bar of your computer or smart phone.  Pastor Tucker's son, Timothy, now voices the messages.

Andy Cook is the Executive Director at the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College. He also co-chairs Lausanne North America and every year he hosts the Amplify Conference. Today we talk about what the Billy Graham is doing to promote evangelism and Andy gives evangelists a dangerous prayer they should pray every day. 

Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. Today we're joined by John Plake, Chief Innovation Officer and Editor-in-Chief of the State of the Bible research at the American Bible Society. With decades of experience as a pastor, missionary, professor, and researcher, John brings a unique perspective on how people are actually engaging with Scripture and what we should do about it. The “movable middle” is growing. // One of the most significant insights from recent research is the rise of what John calls the “movable middle”—millions of people who are open to the Bible but not yet engaged with it. This group has grown by approximately nine million people in recent years. They are curious, interested, and even positive toward Scripture, but they lack the tools, confidence, or guidance to engage it meaningfully. This represents a massive opportunity for churches willing to step in and help. People want a guide. // Through focus groups and research, John discovered that many people in the movable middle feel intimidated by the Bible. They struggle with language, context, and navigation. But perhaps most striking is they want help. Contrary to what some leaders might assume, they are not rejecting the church as a guide. In fact, many say, “If we can't trust the church to help us understand the Bible, what good is it?” This creates a clear invitation for churches to step into a more relational, guiding role in discipleship. A surprising discipleship gap. // One of the most sobering findings is that nearly half of weekly church attenders are not regularly engaging Scripture on their own. While churches invest heavily in preaching and programming, many people are not developing personal habits of Bible engagement. John suggests that churches often focus on delivering content rather than equipping people to engage Scripture themselves. The result is a gap between what happens on Sunday and what happens in everyday life. From teaching to equipping. // If churches want to close that gap, they must shift from being primarily content providers to equipping environments. This means helping people develop the skills, habits, and confidence to read and apply Scripture on their own. It also requires understanding the real barriers people face, like time constraints, confusion, or lack of community support, and addressing those barriers with practical solutions. A new tool for churches. // To help leaders take action, the American Bible Society has developed the “Next Step for Church” assessment. This free tool allows churches to measure spiritual health, Bible engagement, and key leadership behaviors within their congregation. Within a few weeks, leaders receive a detailed, data-driven report highlighting strengths, challenges, and suggested next steps. Data that leads to discipleship. // John emphasizes that data is not an end in itself; it's a tool for better shepherding. By listening to their congregation at scale, leaders can identify patterns, confirm instincts, and prioritize what matters most. The assessment surfaces both what's working and where growth is needed, giving churches a clear path forward. It also connects individuals to personalized Scripture engagement resources, helping them take their next step spiritually. Why Scripture engagement matters most. // Nothing has a greater impact on spiritual growth than a person's relationship with the Bible. In fact, Scripture engagement accounts for a significant portion of overall spiritual health. When people consistently engage with God's Word, transformation follows—affecting beliefs, behaviors, and relationships. Signs of hope for the future. // Despite broader cultural challenges, John sees encouraging trends, especially among younger generations. Millennials and Gen Z show increasing openness to Scripture, even if they are still exploring. While overall trends may appear flat, meaningful change is happening beneath the surface. For churches willing to engage this moment, there is real opportunity for impact. To explore the research further or access the free church assessment, visit church.nextstep.bible and begin discovering how your church can better equip people to engage Scripture every day. Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Lastly, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, to get automatic updates every time a new episode goes live! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: Risepointe Do you feel like your church’s or school's facility could be preventing growth? Are you frustrated or possibly overwhelmed at the thought of a complicated or costly building project? Are the limitations of your building becoming obstacles in the path of expanding your ministry? Have you ever felt that you could reach more people if only the facility was better suited to the community’s needs? Well, the team over at Risepointe can help! As former ministry staff and church leaders, they understand how to prioritize and help lead you to a place where the building is a ministry multiplier. Your mission should not be held back by your building. Their team of architects, interior designers and project managers have the professional experience to incorporate creative design solutions to help move YOUR mission forward. Check them out at risepointe.com and while you’re there, schedule a FREE call to explore possibilities for your needs, vision and future…Risepointe believes that God still uses spaces…and they're here to help. Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. I am so glad that you have decided to tune in today. This is one of those episodes that there’s a great resource in it that going to want to make sure you engage with. There’s super helpful content. Plus it’s about an area that I know so many of us are thinking about, we’re wondering about, we’re asking questions about. Rich Birch — So super excited to have John Plake with us today. He is the chief innovator ah innovation officer and editor-in-chief of the State of the Bible Research Series, which comes from the American Bible Society. And they’re on a mission to make the Bible available to every person in a language and format each can understand and afford so that all may experience its life-changing message. ABS has really a whole bunch of different tools and approaches, and we’re excited kind of expose a little bit more about that today. John has been in ministry over 30 years. We’ll just call it over 30 years. And it served as a pastor, missionary, professor, researcher. John, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.John Plake — Thanks so much for having me today. It’s great to be with you.Rich Birch — Why don’t you fill in the picture a little bit? Tell us a little bit about your background. You know, what brings you to your current work?John Plake — Yeah. Closer to 40 years now. Rich Birch — Nice. Yeah, yeah. That’s great.John Plake — It’s a little uncomfortable to talk about that.Rich Birch — That’s great.John Plake — Yeah. You know, I start out like a lot of people in ministry. I grew up in a home that ministry was central. Actually, both my grandfathers were ministers. My father was a minister. Ministry is kind of the family business in a way, but I really did sense a direction from God when I was about 15 years old to to pursue full-time ministry.John Plake — There was some detail around that. Ended up going to Bible college and and then started what turned out to be about nine years of full-time pastoral service. And I hadn’t been in that for very long before I realized that everything I learned in Bible College was preparing me to serve a generation that no longer existed in a culture that was gone. John Plake — And I thought, my goodness, I know God’s word pretty well. And mean, I’m a lifelong learner of God’s word. I love the Bible. And yet, didn’t really know culture very well. And I didn’t develop those tools until just years and years of practice, some missionary service, wonderful teachers at at Wheaton College and graduate school and and just a lifelong journey of learning.John Plake — So at American Bible Society, when I got here, the State of the Bible, program or this research project was already underway. And we’d been helped out by the Barna Group, which does some wonderful foundational work. And eventually it just kind of grew up and it got to a place where we had an internal team that was running it ourselves, now in collaboration with the National Opinion Research Council or NORC at the University of Chicago. We just do, I think, what is the largest ongoing study of Americans’ relationship with the Bible and faith and the church. And we get to talk about it all the time. Rich Birch — Yeah, I love it.John Plake — So, I mean, this is the best job in the world.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. It’s it’s great research, something that I think should be on the kind of list of things that we need to be paying attention to. It’s been a gift to the church for so long and something that we should continue to to pay attention through. Now, let’s talk about you specifically. You spent three plus decades. I didn’t want to say almost 40. You know, I’m not saying that. I’m not saying that. I could say that, you know, a couple years ago, I clicked across one of those numbers with a zero on the end as my birthday. And ever since then, I’m a little sensitive about the the age thing. Rich Birch — So anyways, As a ministry, missionary professor, researcher, you’ve done a lot. How does wearing all of those hats, what do you what does that bring to you as you come to the data? How does that impact you as you think about really the state of the Bible research?John Plake — Yeah, you know, I think research can be dull. You know, it can sound like it’s all about writing questions or it’s all statistics and numbers. But for me, the research is all about the people. Rich Birch — So true.John Plake — It’s all about the people in our communities and in our churches that we’re trying to understand better so we can serve them well with the gospel. I, for years, I’ve used the analogy that that being in gospel ministry is like being a human bridge across a river. I grew up not very far from the Mississippi River in the St. Louis area, and there was a big 100-year flood when I was early on in ministry. And I mean, none of the bridges worked anymore. You couldn’t get from one side to the other.John Plake — And I thought, you know, that’s a tragedy that I encountered sometimes in ministry where maybe I was deeply rooted in one bank of the river, the text, but I wasn’t necessarily deeply rooted in the other bank of the river, which was the context.John Plake — And it’s this lived experience of the people that I was I was serving. And that I wanted to serve in my community, but I needed to understand them better. So I wasn’t just spouting you know Aristotelian logic to them. Or I wasn’t just coming at them with the pat answers that I’d learned. Like I’d never heard anybody in my life walk into my office and say, Pastor John, you got to tell me, what can you describe hamartiology to me from. You know like I had to learn that in school, but that’s not what people struggle with. Rich Birch — That’s so true. Yeah. John Plake — They had totally different questions and I needed to love them and honor them enough to understand their questions and answer them responsibly and reliably from the pages of scripture.Rich Birch — Yeah, love it. Okay, well, we’re going to dig into a little bit of just a couple of the findings just to kind of, we’re trying to whet your appetite, friends, to take steps towards this. So the 2025 data showed, and we’ve seen this, a real bump in Bible engagement, particularly among millennials and men. If I’m reading it correctly, though, we saw 2026, a shift happen, maybe back down. And so what’s going on? Actually, I heard another sociologist in a kind of a related field that was about church attendance talked about the dead cat bounce, that it was like, you know, which I thought, oh, that’s a, but there’s a similarity going on here. Pull this, this finding apart. Help us understand this.John Plake — Yeah, apologies to cat lovers out there.Rich Birch — Yes, exactly.John Plake — We were we were hoping, you know, I think we were really hoping. We looked at 2025. We saw that men in particular were leaning into the Bible in ways we hadn’t seen recently. Millennials doing the same thing. There there were some interesting numbers in 2025. And so when the 2026 numbers came to my desk in late January, I thought, I hope we’re extending I hope it’s going to be a trend. But it wasn’t. It was a blip.John Plake — And there’s more to it, though, than just the fact that scripture engagement didn’t go up. It also didn’t go down. And the level of people in America who are Bible disengaged, meaning they never pick up the Bible on purpose at all, that actually didn’t go up either. What grew was this kind of curious explorer group in the middle that we call the movable middle. And over the last two years, it’s grown by 9 million American adults. Rich Birch — Wow.John Plake — And so what we do see is there’s there’s openness to the Bible. There’s experimentation with the Bible. But people are jumping in and they’re trying it and they’re not being able to get hold of it. And I think that’s largely because of us.John Plake — Because Bible people who are around them aren’t saying, please come do this with me. Let me help you. Let me honor you enough to to respect your questions, to ask what you’re dealing with, and help you explore those issues through the pages of Scripture.Rich Birch — I love that movable middle, man, that feels like the kind of group we want to connect with and reach out to in our community. Any other, when you, when you’ve been thinking about this movable middle, what are some other kind of characteristics of those people or other things that, you know, are kind of telltale signs of this group as we’re thinking about them as it, as it pertains to Bible engagement?John Plake — Yeah, they’re an amazing group, and we’re going talking more about them all year, but they are probably my favorite subject in America. There are 74 million American adults that are in the movable middle.Rich Birch — Wow.John Plake — 74 million of our neighbors who are like…Rich Birch — Wow.John Plake — …and here’s what they tend to say: They love the Bible. They think it’s a great idea. But if you handed them a Bible, they don’t know how to find what they’re looking for. They don’t know how to navigate it. They get confused by the language in in Scripture.John Plake — I remember doing a a focus group with a bunch of people in the movable middle. I was in Chicago. it was an area I was really familiar with. I used to pastor in that area. And we got them talking about their experience with the Bible. And we said, hey, does anything ever stop you or kind of you know make you check out because you’re struggling with what’s going on? John Plake — And one young lady at the table said, yeah, you know the language of the Bible is really really hard for me to understand. It’s it’s a really old book. It uses expressions I don’t understand. And a gentleman sitting across the table from her just kind of chuckled and said, yeah, what the hell’s a mustard seed? And everybody laughed.John Plake — I was behind the glass and I just about fell out of my chair because they didn’t teach me to talk like that in a Assemblies of God seminary.Rich Birch — Yes.John Plake —Things like that, you know, that’s just not the way we roll.Rich Birch — Yeah, yeah. Yes.John Plake — But it was so authentic and he wasn’t being mean.Rich Birch — No.John Plake — He was just saying, boy, I don’t I don’t get it. And then they said, you know, we really want a guide. Rich Birch — That’s good.John Plake — And so we pushed on that a little bit. At the time, there were some clergy abuse scandals that actually there were billboards up in Chicago about clergy abuse scandals that all of us lamented. And so we’re like, OK, listen, do you trust the church to be your guide? Because ee saw these billboards, you know, and it’s your city. And so what what do you think?John Plake — And they said, well, of course we do. I mean, it’s terrible when people in the church abuse their position and abuse others. And that’s not what they’re supposed to do. But if we can’t trust the church to help us understand the Bible, what good are they, really? And so, yes, we’re looking to you, church, to help us connect more deeply with the Bible, understand what it meant to the original hearers and readers and how we apply it to our lives today.Rich Birch — Okay, that’s yeah, that’s really cool. I look forward to hearing more about the movable middle in this coming year. Another thing that jumped out to me, which I feel like, man, I’ve seen this in my church. This is like you you named a group that I see, but it’s surprising, at least it’s surprising on its face. So nearly half of weekly church attenders, weekly church attenders, which is, that’s like really engaged, you know, are not regularly engaging, engaging scripture on their own.Rich Birch — Man, what, so what should we do about that? That’s an interesting, how does, how should that impact our discipleship strategy? What are you encouraging us to be thinking about? And these people that are with us all the time, but they’re not engaged with scripture.John Plake — Well, I think the first thing to do is to just recognize it. Rich Birch — Right.John Plake — You know, a lot of pastors that I’ve talked to, when we talk about scripture engagement, they tell me things like this: Everything we do is scripture engagement. I spend my whole week preparing a scriptural message. I’m, you know, we’re preparing small group curriculum and Sunday school curriculum and all of this stuff. It’s all about the, everything we do is about the Bible. John Plake — Well, okay. But I had a I had a young youth pastor come to me not that long ago and he said, John, look, you were me once a few years ago. If you knew then what you know now, what would you do differently?John Plake — And the answer is I would do everything differently, than the way I ought to do it. Because what, in my tradition, there was a lot of emphasis on the preaching event, and I put a lot of effort into those communication events, but what I didn’t put as much effort into is empowering people in my church to do what I was doing, which was dig into scripture, understand it for themselves, giving them the tools to do that.John Plake — And then in May, we’re going to be releasing a chapter, just in a few few days now, we’re going to be releasing a chapter all about parents. And one of the startling things is the time pressure that moms are under. I mean, it’s incredible. And so we need to understand where they’re coming from and where they have barriers, but also have some compassion on them and help to support them when they’re really facing struggles. Like they don’t have enough time. They don’t have the resources or the community coming around them to help them to engage God’s word ah more fulsomely, more transformatively.John Plake — We know how to do this stuff, but we’re not connecting the dots to everybody that’s coming to hear us talk every…Rich Birch — That’s good. That’s good. I know I’ve in my seat as an XP, um you know, I’ve overseen a lot of what we do on the programming side and what we do on the weekends. And I’ve, you know, it’s like, that i don’t think I’ve ever said this publicly. It’s like the kind of behind the scenes conversation. I’ve sometimes wondered, I’ve said, you know, like, what we do on the weekend to try to make the Bible understandable is so completely different than Tuesday morning in someone’s life. Rich Birch — Like, we pull out all the stops to make it interesting. We get like world class communicators, incredible graphics, you know, emotional music, all of this to try to… But then the question is, okay, so now on Tuesday morning when you’re tired and you haven’t had your coffee yet and you’re just about to go read scripture, man, like that feels like a long ways away. There’s like a gap there that I sometimes wonder maybe we’re making it worse. You know. Maybe we’re making it harder. I said that. You didn’t say that. Rich Birch — So maybe there’s pastors that are listening here and they read this kind of report. They read this kind of finding and they’re like, hey, that’s interesting. But like, how what do I do in my church specifically? So you know we want we don’t want to just leave people with a tough stat.Rich Birch — I think we see that in our church. There’s people in our church that are here all the time. They’re not that engaged. But you’ve actually developed a new tool or ABS has developed a new tool to help us think through that. Why don’t you walk us through it? Tell us a little bit about it. How’s it work? Talk us how it can help us.John Plake — Yeah, so recently we developed two tools that kind of work together. One of them you can find on the internet at nextstep.bible. And it’s just for anybody who’s like, hey, I’m on a spiritual journey. I’m kind of stuck. I don’t really know what to do next. Maybe you’re just getting started exploring what it means to be a Christian. Maybe you’re Jesus’ little brother or sister. Wherever you are in that journey, there’s always a next step for us.John Plake — And so what we’ve done is analyzed along about a million spiritual life surveys. Rich Birch — Wow.John Plake — And from this huge quantity of data, we’ve learned that people are at different places in that journey. They’re at different points on the map. And we want to make sure that they’re equipped to have the right thing at the right time. I think currently there are 21,000 scripture engagement resources available there.Rich Birch — Wow.John Plake — They’re absolutely free. They’re in English, Spanish, and French. So go check it out, nextstep.bible.John Plake — But if you’re a pastor or you’re a church leader, you’re probably wondering, well, what’s going on in my church, right? So I see all the national data, but I think our tendency is to say, well, we’re the exception, right?Rich Birch — So true. Well, that’s not our people. John Plake — I know I know everybody else is struggling, but we’re doing okay.Rich Birch — Yes.John Plake — And and so it’s good to check our assumptions a little bit. They used to say a really sad statistic that 10 o’clock on Sunday morning was the most segregated hour in America, which makes me sad. What makes me sad also is that 12 o’clock noon in America is the most dishonest hour in America. That’s the hour when pastors tend to start greeting their people after the church service closes and they hear all these comments: oh, Pastor, that was the best sermon I’ve ever heard. And it wasn’t. It just wasn’t. All right, let’s face it.John Plake — There’s somebody out there who preaches better than you do and better than I do. They’re available on YouTube. People don’t need you to be the best Bible teacher in the world. They need you to be the best pastor for them. Rich Birch — That’s good.John Plake — And the tools that are all about focusing on their relationship with the Bible, their holistic spiritual formation, and our leadership behaviors. And so for that, we built the Next Step for Church Assessment.John Plake — It’s actually standing on the foundation or built on the engine block, if you want a different metaphor, of the old reveal research that the Willow Creek Association had come out with. It’s no longer available. And we were able to acquire all of their historical learnings, but also add in things like human flourishing and e-pastoral leadership behaviors that lead to churches really being missionally effective and strong. Excellent stuff on Bible engagement and spiritual formation. John Plake — So the the big challenge we had, I was talking with Dr. Ed Stetzer about this because he was at LifeWay Research when the Transformational Church Assessment was being built. And it was always hard because analyzing this kind of data required a lot of human intervention. It’s very expensive to do. It’s very complicated to deliver. And even a small cost can be a barrier for churches that have strained budgets. It doesn’t matter if you’re a church of, you know, 2,500 25,000 or 250. There’s always more places to put your money than there are dollars that are available to do it.John Plake — And so at American Bible Society, we said, you know what, as a gift to the church, because we love the church, we need to make it completely free. And so you can go to church.nextstep.bible and you could sign up today. Literally, we’re recording this on a on a Thursday. You could go there today and by Sunday, you could be launching your survey. Two weeks later, you’d automatically have results in your own online dashboard. You’d get key highlights emailed to you. There’s a place for custom questions. There’s just all kinds of really, really rich information.Rich Birch — So good.John Plake — And it it doesn’t take the place of the kind of learning that you have as a pastor. You learn deeply in relationship with others. You’re observing what’s going on. You have a team that’s around you. But what it does is it provides this valid, reliable sift and sort function. It’s based on well, I don’t know even know how many, well over 3000 churches, well over half a million survey responses went into building this and making it a tool that that is a good benchmark for you to say, you know what, if we want to move from where we are today to where God is calling us, here are the things we need to focus on.Rich Birch — It’s so good. And friends, I want to encourage you to to go there. Just church.nextstep.bible. I know many of us have a heart for saying, listen, we want to measure more than just nickels and noses. The number of people that show up and revenue that comes in. And this a great way to kind of inject at something that’s at the core of what we’re supposed to be doing as a church. So why don’t we just give a little bit more detail?Rich Birch — What is it? You know, what’s it actually measuring? How is it? You know, how could it be helpful? How how could it kind of dovetail with some of the things we’re already tracking? Maybe give us, you know, what kind of insights are we going to gain from this if we if we put our people through this?John Plake — Yeah, maybe it’s worthwhile to just back up and say it’s based on a congregational assessment. So really this kind of work is all about just listening to your congregation at scale. So if you have 25 people coming to church, you can probably have this conversation with them if you know how to ask the right questions. Rich Birch — Right.John Plake — You can go to the website. You’re like, what’s in the survey? There’s a button you can click. You can read the whole survey. It’s fine. We’re not going to try and surprise you with anything. But really simple stuff. How’s your relationship with Jesus? How often are you interacting with Scripture? What difference is that making in your life? We ask the standard Harvard human flourishing questions. We ask about um how the pastoral team or the senior pastor, him or herself, is doing at actually modeling Christlike leadership for you. Rich Birch — It’s so good.John Plake — And all of that reporting then gets brought into a database. It’s all anonymous. So individuals don’t, they don’t have to tell you who they are. They can’t tell you who they are other than by characteristics. And you’re going to get this really good, robust picture of what’s going on at the church. John Plake — Now, what does it take for somebody to do that? It takes about 20 minutes of their time, and time is expensive, right? People always have too much to do. So in return for that investment, at the end of their survey experience, they will have already told us everything we need to know to match them to great resources at nextstep.bible.John Plake — And with their permission, not without it, they can click a button, pass that data over to the individual nextstep.bible platform. They can create an account and right away, they’re going to be finding things like YouVersion Bible reading plans that are just for them.John Plake — If you’ve got people in your church and they’re outliers, they’re they’re way more spiritually advanced than everybody else, or they’re just getting started and everybody else is way ahead of them, these kinds of tools create bespoke pathways for them so they know what to do next. All the while, the church leadership can sit back and say, okay, here’s our results. And as a team, now what do we need to do to serve the whole congregation well?Rich Birch — I love this. You know, this is what incredible tool that you’ve put together here for our churches to wrestle through and to, you know, not only help us as a church as we’re thinking about these issues, but then help individuals in our church. What what would be some of the ways that churches might use the data that’s generated to impact what we’re doing in our programming? How how could we use this to improve what we’re doing?John Plake — Sure. There are really three things we want everybody to do. First, just discover what’s going on. Just just check your assumptions at the door and and say, okay, what do the data tell us about what’s going on in our church life and in our people’s lives? That’s the first thing.John Plake — Second thing is it’s going to surface for you the top three things that you’re doing great. And it’s going to give them to you in the report. And you need to throw a party. Like there are people who make these things happen for you. No pastor is doing this all by themselves. And so plan a party, celebrate what’s going well.John Plake — The third thing it’s going to do is it’s going to give you suggestions about, okay, here’s where your congregation is today. It won’t surprise you, but it might inform you. I’ve never seen a pastor look at the report and go, ah you guys got it wrong. Rich Birch — Sure, right.John Plake — Usually they they see the report and they go, yeah, okay, yeah, you got me.Rich Birch — Yeah. Confirmed some hunches I’ve had. Yeah. Yeah.John Plake — Right? But we don’t we don’t have time. We don’t have the resources. We don’t have the expertise to be able to sit down and and kind of scientifically walk through this process. So we do that for you. We deliver the report. And then we’re going to give you two key action items that we think churches like yours in a similar place have done that have helped move them toward spiritual health and missional effectiveness.John Plake — And that’s really what it’s all about. We want your congregation to be spiritually healthy. We want your your church as a whole to be missionally effective. And when that happens, often there’s numerical growth. Often there’s financial growth. But there’s certainly more missional impact that’s coming through your congregation and its work.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s cool. So if I’m like a church of a thousand people, let’s say, and just round number to picking out of the sky, how how what kind of percentage of my congregation would I need to take this to give me a reasonable, you know, statistical, you know, feeling good about the data for it? What what kind of number um should I be thinking about?John Plake — Well, the first thing is we’ve built in a tool that will tell you how to get to a margin of error of plus or minus 3%. Rich Birch — Love it.John Plake — And that does vary depending on the adult attendance that you have. So let’s say you’ve a thousand adults. And by adults, I mean anybody in high school or older can probably take this survey. Rich Birch — Yep.John Plake — And you can cut the data like by gender or by age. All of that live filtering is in the online platform. Rich Birch — Oh, that’s so good.John Plake — So if you’re the you’re the youth pastor and you’re like, well, wait, tell me about the young people that took the survey. You can just look right at them and compare them to the rest of the congregation, which I bet will be enlightening. But nevertheless, how many do you need if you’re a church of 1,000, it’s about 275.Rich Birch — Okay.John Plake — If it’s a smaller church than that, then you’re still going to need a pretty significant percentage. So if I roll that all the way down to a church of 100, you need 80.Rich Birch — Okay.John Plake — And if you roll that up to a church of 5,000, well, you don’t need that many more than 275.Rich Birch — Interesting.John Plake — So you’re going to report that out to you. It’s very, very doable. And, you know, I’ve pastored at large churches and I pastored a small church. And I’ll tell you, when I pastored a church of under 100, I could have gotten a census of the people, like everybody, to do a survey like this. They would have been glad to tell me these things. Rich Birch — Right.John Plake — And it’s not that I couldn’t have had a conversation one-on-one with most of the adults in the congregation. It was something different in that case. I actually didn’t know what to ask. I used to run into this when I was a campus pastor at a Christian university. And I would have young people walk into my office and I was like, I know I should be able to help them, but the challenge they’re facing is different than anything I’m familiar with. I don’t have any analog for this in my personal experience. And so this sort of takes the mystery away. We don’t ask fluffy questions. We ask research proven questions that are going to give you the information you really need so you can take action.Rich Birch — That’s amazing. That’s think this is such a great tool for people. I can see how, you know, it’d be so helpful for folks that are listening in to, you know, might be be able to plug in grab this experience for their people, help their church, help the folks that are attending. That’s, that’s incredible.Rich Birch — So, you know, you’ve picked an interesting vocation to be connected with the American Bible Society. And because, you know, this is such a critical and important part of developing people’s relationship, obviously, with Jesus; its core to all of it. And we have seen a long historical downward trend, and you’re pushing against that, which is amazing. But what gives you hope in the middle of all of that? What would it when you look at the church around you know, the country, where do you see flashes of just good things going on that are like, you know, when it comes to the relationship with scripture that even, you know, even when we see maybe the overall numbers are not as great as we want them to be, what are some kind of flashes of hope we should, that we could encourage folks with today?John Plake — Well, I’d like to maybe point to just three things that leap to mind. Rich Birch — Yep.John Plake — The first of them is I never talk to anybody in the church who says the Bible is a bad idea. Rich Birch — Sure.John Plake — Everybody likes the Bible. We’re all trying to figure out how to communicate its message better, to understand it more deeply. It’s transforming our lives, and we want to be able to share it with others. John Plake — And that’s great because, number two, there’s nothing that makes a bigger difference in somebody’s spiritual life than their relationship with the Bible. I mean, absolutely nothing. And I’m saying this as a researcher. I’ve tested it. I can’t find anything that makes a bigger difference. John Plake — In fact, when we looked at Christian college and university students, 60% of their overall spiritual health across lots of domains—beliefs, practice, putting faith into action, loving God, loving others, all these things, 60% of the variance in their spiritual health is solely accounted for by their relationship with the Bible.John Plake — So if we can help people have a dynamic relationship with scripture, we win. That’s all there is to it. It’s just that simple. And so that is really encouraging.John Plake — And then the third thing, ah the third thing is how I say this nicely? I'm I’m from Gen X and so to my Baby Boomer friends, I’m sorry, but you guys don’t have the influence that you once did.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s true.John Plake — And that’s a good thing because there’s new openness among Millennials, and Gen Z and even younger Gen X um that we just don’t see among Baby Boomers. It’s like Baby Boomers made up their minds in the 60s and early 70s and said, this is what I believe and I’m not changing. And they haven’t. John Plake — That’s not to say that someone who’s a Baby Boomer can’t have a a spiritual experience and transformational experience. It does happen. But on the population level, like when we looked at the Bay Area of San Francisco, if you look at the scripture engagement, church engagement, love God, love others data in the Bay Area, it looks like what you’d expect, until you strip out the Baby Boomers. And then suddenly it looks better than every place else in America.John Plake — You’re like, what’s going on? Well, looks like all the unreconstructed hippies that moved to the Bay Area are actually holding a lid on the population numbers. And when you remove that and you go, oh, wait a minute, let me look under the headline and say what’s happening. There’s more going on than is easy to see. And I think this happens in big national trends.John Plake — Oh, is Scripture engagement up or down? Is you know church attendance up or down? Whats what’s going… big national trends. Yeah, okay, those are helpful, and we want those to change. But what’s changing first is below the fold. Things in Gen Z, things among Millennials, things in young men, those things are starting to change, and I think those are the first glimmerings that God is at work in a new way in America, and I can’t wait to see it.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s that’s a great word. And that lines up with what we’re seeing, even just experientially talking to churches across the country. You know we’re so we’re seeing there is something going on with younger generations, which is great to see. I was I was born in 1974, the lowest birth rate year of the 20th century. I am classic Gen X. Like you know I am like statistic I’m the statistical average Gen X and has spent a lot of my time trying to hand stuff from the Boomers to the Millennials. And, yeah, there’s lots of encouraging news there, particularly with the younger generations. Rich Birch — I also want to speak to on the the work I’ve done in the church growth stuff that I’ve done and coaching I’ve done with churches, one of the things that’s just undeniable is churches that have a high view of scripture, that is, they’re trying to get people engaged with scripture. They they talk about it like it’s actually true. How do we say don’t know what’s the best way to talk about that? Those are the churches that are prevailing, and that actually works out statistically. You see that time and again. Talk to us about that dynamic, which is kind of co-related to the things we’re talking about today. From your perspective in the stats and all that, how how have you seen that work out as you’ve looked at churches across the country?John Plake — Yeah, I think you’re exactly right. The churches that are the healthiest in America, that are growing, that where where people are spiritually healthy, have a really dynamic relationship with Scripture. And it kind of it cuts across tradition. Rich Birch — Yep.John Plake — There are some traditional things going on. I was listening to Justin Brierley and his surprising Rebirth of Belief in God podcast, and it was from last season, and he he had someone on, he was interviewing, and what she was saying was there are the parts of the church that seem to be thriving are kind of the, the the older, the ancientness traditions, whether it’s Catholic or Orthodox, that what she called somewhat irreverently, the smells and bells side of of the church.Rich Birch — Sure, sure.John Plake — And on the other side, kind of my end of the swimming pool, I’m, from the Assemblies of God, so the Pentecostal and Charismatic side. And she said, what’s going on is that both ends of that spectrum are totalizing. John Plake — They’re saying, you know what, the the Bible places certain expectations and demands on people. Christ places certain expectations and demands on people. And these parts of the church aren’t sort of shy about talking about that from a biblical perspective. She said, what’s what’s dying is that part in the middle where we’ve reduced church to a PowerPoint and you know an Excel spreadsheet. And she said, that part of the church seems to be dying and no one’s coming to the funeral. Rich Birch — That’s good. John Plake — And I thought, you know okay, right?Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah, that’s good.John Plake — So if we revitalize our relationship with God through scripture, there’s a next step for every church. It doesn’t matter what, you know whether you’re mainline or evangelical or, you know, Pentecostal or Orthodox or whatever it is, but but reviving our relationship with God through Scripture is really where it’s at.Rich Birch — That’s so good. i Yeah, I call that middle group the just because it rhymes doesn’t mean it’s true group. You know, like the, you know, were just like, it’s all my thoughts. No one wants to come and find us. They want to find God ultimately. Well, I don’t want to pick any fights with anybody that’s listening in, but I really appreciate today’s conversation, John. This has been great. So we want to send people to church.nextstep.bible.Rich Birch — The the promise of in two weeks, your church could have a comprehensive report on spiritual health, on where your church is, spiritual health is at, that’s a huge promise. And so again, this is go to church.nextstep.bible. Any kind of final words as we wrap up today’s episode?John Plake — You know, you might be familiar with Cally Parkinson. Cally was the co-author of all of the Reveal books, every single one of them. She was head of communications for the Willow Creek Association when they were running this. She’s probably had more conversations with pastors and church leaders about survey results like this than anybody I know, maybe than anybody alive. And Cally likes this so much. She said, John, I want to have a personal consultation with the first hundred churches that go through this.John Plake — And so if you want to be in that group, she’s going to offer to spend an hour with you and just walk through your results and help explain it. There are videos throughout the platform that will explain it as well. And you can’t beat talking to Cally. She loves pastors. She says you’re the salt of the earth. And she just really wants to serve you because the work that you do to save people is just so valuable to her. So anyway, just wanted to offer that. And I know you’d probably love to meet Cally.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s fantastic. Well, appreciate you being here today. Thanks for the great work you do at the American Bible Society. John, appreciate you being on today. Thank you.John Plake — Thank you.

After suffering in silence, Hannah Dreher, the daughter of Wheaton College's alleged predator Dennis Massaro, calls for accountability and urges people to sign a petition to see change.

Hay mucha confusión en el mundo evangélico sobre lo que significa el ministerio. Por un lado, se le llama así, casi a cualquier cosa. Y por otra se confunde con el trabajo social, la psicoterapia, la educación, o simplemente la administración de la iglesia. Hay un sólo discurso en el libro de los Hechos a un público específicamente crisitano. Los demás mensajes son evangelísticos, bien dirigidos a judíos, gentiles o en defensa legal, sea ante el Sanedrín o las autoridades romanas. Las palabras de Pablo a los ancianos de la iglesia en Efeso son, por lo tanto, un testimonio único del corazón pastoral del apóstol. Tras una introducción a este texto del capítulo de Hechos, seguimos el método apostólico, mostrando primero lo que no es el ministerio pastoral. Hablamos de quienes llama Pablo, "lobos rapaces que no perdonarán al rebaño" (v. 29). El tema de los "abusos pastorales" está de mucha actualidad, pero no es algo nuevo. La película "Philomena" (2013) nos acerca a un caso histórico muy conocido en Irlanda, pero de una forma poco habitual a estos filmes de denuncia. Stephen Frears acude a un actor conocido por sus papeles cómicos, Steve Coogan, para evitar el tono emocionalmente manipulador, habitual de estas historias. Junto a esa gran actriz británica que es Judy Dench, hacemos un viaje casi documental. Escuchamos escenas de la película doblada al castellano, que comenta José de Segovia. En este programa comenzamos en nuestra Ruta un nuevo trayecto en que vamos a dar lugar también a la literatura, junto al cine, para comentar el texto bíblico. La música seguirá teniendo un papel fundamental, pero estará a partir de ahora a cargo de Daniel Panduro, el creador del diseño sonoro y la realización técnica de estos programas. El libro con el que hemos querido comenzar este recorrido que abarca la ficción literaria, es la sorprendente novela "Gilead" (2004). La prestigiosa obra de Marilynne Robinson trata sobre dos pastores protestantes y sus familias en la vida cotidiana de la América rural con una perspectiva histórica, profundamente personal. Es una novela singular, donde las haya. Para mostrar el corazón pastoral que revela esta historia hemos grabado fragmentos del libro, que escuchamos con entrevistas a la autora sobre su fe por el diario británico The Guardian y el presidente de la universidad evangélica de pasado abolicionista, Wheaton College, Philip Ryken, autor de un libro sobre "Pastores en los clásicos" (2011) de la literatura, que presta especial atención a Gilead. Para acabar, comentamos las lecciones que podemos aprender de este texto de Hechos 20.

Nobody told you the waiting is the work. We live in a world that rewards being discovered — going viral, moving fast, getting noticed. But God's economy runs on something entirely different: development. And development always happens in the dark. In week two of this summer series, Christine Caine takes us into the darkroom — the season of delay, disappointment, and hiddenness that God uses not to hold us back, but to build the roots that will hold us up when everything shakes. Christine Caine does it through the story of a young man named David: anointed at 17, appointed at 37. Twenty years. Twenty chapters. And not one of them wasted. This isn't a season you endure. It's a season you grow in. Originally heard by over 135,000 people — what is God growing in you right now that you can't yet see? ✨ If you've ever asked questions like… ✅ Why does it feel like everyone else is moving forward while I'm still waiting? ✅ I feel called and gifted — so why isn't anything happening yet? ✅ What's the difference between a gift and an anointing — and why does it matter? ✅ How do I stay faithful in private when no one seems to notice? ✅ Why does God's process feel so slow when the world moves so fast? ✅ What do I do when I feel overlooked by the people who were supposed to see me? ✅ How do I stop comparing my journey to someone else's highlight reel? …then this is your episode.

Today on ND Couples Coaches' Corner, Dr. Stephanie and Barbara Grant continue the series on the month-long series examining how Scripture is sometimes misused by spiritual authorities—such as clergy, small-group leaders, biblical counselors, and Christian counselors—in ways that shame or further harm those who are already experiencing abuse in their marriages.In this special series, Twisted Scripture: When the Bible Is Weaponized, we take a careful and thoughtful look at passages that are frequently used in ways that silence the vulnerable or pressure victims to remain in harmful situations. Today's Guest: Author of Life-Saving Divorce, Gretchen BaskervilleSome of today's verses included Malachi 2:16 and passages in Mark 10 and Matthew 19 about divorce. Short bioGretchen Baskerville is a Christian divorce recovery leader and author. She began leading support groups for single mothers in conservative churches in the Los Angeles area in 1998 and now focuses primarily on reaching people online. For more than 25 years, Gretchen has helped women and men of faith find strength, courage, and healing through the challenges of life-saving divorce. She listens with empathy to those recovering from domestic violence, betrayal, infidelity, addiction, and emotional abuse. A survivor of a toxic marriage herself, Gretchen understands the journey of rebuilding after loss. Following her own life-saving divorce and years as a single mother, she is now happily remarried. She is a graduate of Wheaton College with a degree in Bible and Christian Education. Definition:What's a Life-Saving Divorce?A Life-Saving Divorce is the opposite of an “I'm bored” divorce, or an “I miss the party life” divorce. It is a divorce for serious reasons: to find relief from a pattern of sexual immorality, physical violence, chronic emotional abuse, felony behavior, family-crushing addictions, or abandonment through neglect and indifference. Links to my resourcesThe Life-Saving Divorce: Hope for People Leaving Destructive RelationshipsBook (paperback/eBook/audiobook page): https://amzn.to/3J3vXa7Audiobook (direct link): https://amzn.to/4f52Mh4Website & Blog: https://lifesavingdivorce.com/Pastor Education page: https://lifesavingdivorce.com/pastor-education-domestic-violence-biblical-response/Gumroad (EPUB + PDF download): https://gumroad.com/lspFor those who share an Amazon account with their abuser.Social mediaBluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/lifesavingdivorce.bsky.socialFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lifesavingdivorceInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/gretchenbaskerville/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lifesavingdivorceTwitter/X: https://twitter.com/GGBaskervilleLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gretchen-baskerville-2873591b5/  If you want to join a class for women with Dr. Stephanie Holmes: https://www.holmesasr.com/womengroups check here for current classes.If you want to work with Barbara Grant: https://bg-hc.com/

Some modern translations of John 20:2 have Mary exclaiming, "They have taken away the Lord's body from the tomb." The word "body" is not in the Greek sentence, and its insertion might dampen our sympathy with Mary's profound grief. Dr. Amy Peeler has contributed several episodes to this podcast. She is the Kenneth T. Wessner Chair of Biblical Studies, Professor of New Testament, and Chair of the Ph.D. Program at Wheaton College. Her most recent publication include Ordinary Time: The Season of Growth and Hebrews (Commentaries for Christian Formation). She is presently working on Paul's view on the impact of the Incarnation.   Check out related programs at Wheaton College: B.A. in Classical Languages (Greek, Latin, Hebrew): https://bit.ly/3QOZOqE  M.A. in Biblical Exegesis: https://bit.ly/4tZGPs8 

There's no shortage of voices telling men who they should be right now and most of them are answering the wrong question. In this conversation with Zachary Wagner, author of Men of Virtue, we get underneath the culture war noise around masculinity and into something more substantive: the four concrete crises facing men and boys today, why virtue formation is better than role definition as a response, and how the fruit of the Spirit offers a more deeply human, and more countercultural, vision of manhood than anything the manosphere or the stoics are selling. This is a conversation about character, embodiment, fatherlessness, meaning, and what it might look like for men to be formed into something more Christ-like.Zachary is an author, ordained minister, and New Testament scholar.He grew up in the northwest suburbs of Chicago in a homeschooling family as the fourth of six siblings, an environment that sparked his lifelong love of languages, ideas, and reading.After completing degrees from the Moody Bible Institute and Wheaton College. Zachary and his family moved to Oxford, England, in 2020 for him to pursue a DPhil (PhD) in New Testament studies. His research focused on the theme of reward in the letters of Paul and the Gospel of Matthew, and he successfully defended his thesis in 2025.He published his first book, Non-Toxic Masculinity: Recovering Healthy Male Sexuality, in 2023 with InterVarsity Press. His second book, Men of Virtue: How the Fruit of the Spirit Forms Male Character in the Modern World, will release from Brazos Press in May 2026. He is currently pursuing publication for his DPhil thesis, as well as a further writing and research projects on Christianity and Stoicism.Zachary was ordained for gospel ministry in 2022 and has over a decade of nonprofit leadership experience. He currently serves as the director of programs at the Center for Pastor Theologians, where he also co-hosts the Pastor Theologians Podcast.He lives just outside Chicago in an intentional community with his wife, three kids, and two additional housemates.Zachary's Book:Men of VirtueZachary's Recommendations:Against the MachineBabelConnect with Joshua: jjohnson@shiftingculturepodcast.comGo to www.shiftingculturepodcast.com to interact and donate. Every donation helps to produce more podcasts for you to enjoy.Follow on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Threads, Bluesky or YouTubeSupport the podcast and the ministry that my wife and I do around the world. Just click on the support the show link below Support the show

Chris chats with Liz Zenger, program manager of The Inklings Project, which provides resources for professors, teachers, and other groups developing Inklings-related courses. Also, by way of update, this just in from Liz herself:  This is currently live for 6-12 teachers! Goes along with your second to last question of the podcast :-)   Call for Proposals Inklings Project Fellowship for 6-12 Teachers Applications can be submitted via this link until Aug 1, 2026.     For the first time in its history, the Inklings Project, under the University of Notre Dame's McGrath Institute for Church Life, is opening its fellowship to middle school and high school educators. Previous cohorts have drawn from college and university faculty; this new two-year cohort, beginning in Fall 2026, will be made up of those who educate in grades 6–12. Middle and high school is when many readers first encounter C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien—and where an educator's love for these authors can ripple outward to students, parents, and an entire school community. View the Call for Proposals or visit www.inklingsproject.org/apply for more information on the fellowship and application requirements. Applications can be submitted via this link until August 1, 2026.   Among other things, we discuss: What The Inklings Project is (~0:53) — Liz explains the initiative: supporting faculty to create Inklings courses, providing grants, and building fellowship through a cohort model. The Wade Center at Wheaton College (~4:10) — The in-person annual gathering for fellows, housing original manuscripts, Tolkien's desk, Lewis's wardrobe, etc. Diverse faculty backgrounds (~6:30) — How professors from biology, business, public relations, and other non-literary fields are teaching Inklings courses, and why that breadth matters. The origin story of the project (~10:20) — Liz traces it from a CS Lewis course she took as a freshman at Brown, to founding a student society, to pitching the idea to Notre Dame's McGrath Institute. The challenge of reading loads & expanding to high schools (~17:30) — How professors handle the sheer volume of Inklings material, and the project's potential future cohort for high school and homeschool teachers. Next Week: At long last, The Silver Trumpet!

REWIND ⏪ Harvest is NOW!

This summer on Equip & Empower with Christine Caine, we're answering the question: what does it actually look like to live a rooted, resilient, and fruitful life? We're starting not with survival, but with possibility. A rooted life isn't just a stable life — it's a life capable of believing God for the impossible. And most of us have confused those two things. We want to be steady. We want to be safe. But Christine Caine opens this summer series with a provocation: the moment your situation stops being impossible is the moment you stop needing God. Roots aren't just for holding you in place. They're what make everything else possible. In this opening episode, Christine draws the line between intellectual faith and active trust — the difference between believing in God and believing God. For the thing in front of you.  For the miracle that seems too far.  For the promise you've nearly stopped praying for. ✨ If you've ever asked questions like… ✅ What's the difference between believing in God and actually believing God — for my specific situation? ✅ How do I trust God when the people I should have been able to trust have hurt me? ✅ Can God really rebuild what's broken in me before He can use me for something bigger? ✅ How do I step out in faith when I'm still carrying wounds from my past? ✅ Why do I keep praying for a miracle but pulling back from anything that actually requires one? ✅ What does it mean to be rooted — and why does it matter for the life I'm trying to build? ✅ Is it possible to flourish after abandonment, betrayal, or brokenness? …then this is your episode.

Audio Transcript How are we this morning? Excellent. All right. It's my privilege to bring the word to you this morning, so let's get into it. Recently I read a story about a young man who never wanted to be a soldier. He had no visions of fame or ambitions of glory. When his father announced that he'd secured him an appointment to West Point, the boy protested. He wanted to be a farmer or perhaps work the river trade. But his father was not a man to be argued with, and so the 17 year old boarded a coach east. Sick with dread, he got off to a rough start. Through a clerical error, his name was copied incorrectly and it would stick permanently. He hated the academy. He finished 21st of 39 cadets, distinguished only in horsemanship and mathematics. The Mexican War found him a reluctant quartermaster, competent, but unnoticed afterward posted to lonely garrisons on the Pacific coast. Far from his wife Julia and the children he barely knew, he began to drink. In 1854, facing either court martial or resignation over his drinking, he resigned his commission in disgrace and went home with empty pockets. What followed were the worst years of his life. He tried farming on land his father in law gave him outside St. Louis, and the crops failed. He hauled firewood through the city streets in a worn army overcoat, occasionally passing former West Point classmates who looked away embarrassment. He pawned his gold watch one Christmas to buy presents for his children. He tried bill collecting and was terrible at it. He tried real estate and failed at that, too. By 1860, at 38 years old, he was working at a clerk in his younger brother's leather goods store in Galena, Illinois, earning $800 a year. He was a man whose life, by every visible measure, had failed. Then Fort Sumter fell. The quiet clerk who couldn't sell harnesses turned out to understand something that most West Point polished generals did not. The war was not about elegant maneuvers or reputation, but about pressing forward relentlessly, accepting losses and refusing to stop. Donaldson, Shiloh, Vicksburg, Chattanooga, the Wilderness, Appomattox. The failures had taught him things that successful men never learned. What it was to be underestimated, to be written off, to keep moving even when the odds looked long. The boy who didn't want to be a soldier, the the lieutenant who resigned in shame, the farmer who failed, and his brother's store. Hiram Ulysses Grant, or as the West Point Clerk mistakenly wrote, U.S. grant, ended the war as General of the armies, the man who had saved the Union and later President of the United States. It turned out that the long road had been the training. Weeks before his death, Grant wrote the preface to his personal memoirs, saying, man proposes and God disposes. There are but few important events in the affairs of men brought about by their own choice. Most of us at some point will know what it is to be in our own wilderness. We will know what it is to wait, to wait through years that seem to lead nowhere, to feel forgotten by God, to look out at a landscape that gives no sign that he is at work. And we will be tempted in those years to conclude that nothing is happening, that God has misplaced us, that our life is being spent in vain. This morning, as we come to a passage in the Book of Exodus that speaks directly into that experience. It is the story of 40 silent years in the life of Moses and 400 silent years in the life of Israel. It is the story of a God who appears to all human eyes to be doing nothing. And it is the story of how, beneath that silence, he was doing everything. So if you would with me open your Bibles, please, to the Book of Exodus. And this morning we're going to finish chapter two, verses 11 to 25. One day, when Moses had grown up, he went out to his people and looked on their burdens. He saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his people. He looked this way and that, and seeing no one, he struck down the Egyptian and hid him in the sand. When he went out the next day, behold, two Hebrews were struggling together. And he said to the man in the wrong, why do you strike your companion? He answered, who made you a prince and a judge over us? Do you mean to kill me as you killed the Egyptian? Then Moses was afraid and thought, surely the thing is known. When Pharaoh heard of it, he sought to kill Moses. But Moses fled from Pharaoh and stayed in the land of Midian. And he sat down by a well. Now, the priest of Midian had seven daughters. And they came and drew water and filled the troughs to water their father's flock. The shepherds came and drove them away. But Moses stood up and saved them and watered their flock. When he came home to their father, Reuel, he said, how is it that you have come home so soon today? They said, an Egyptian delivered us out of the hand of the shepherds, and even drew water for us and watered the flock. He said to his daughters, then where is he? Why have you left the man? Call him that he may eat bread. And Moses was content to dwell with the man. And he gave Moses his daughter Zipporah. She gave birth to a son, and he called his name Gershom, for he Said I have been a sojourner in a foreign land. During those many days. The king of Egypt died and the people of Israel groaned because of their slavery and cried out for help. Their cry for rescue from slavery came up to God, and God heard their groaning. And God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac and with Jacob. God saw the people of Israel and God knew. Let's pray. Father. May the words of my mouth and the meditations of our hearts this morning be acceptable in your presence. Lord, I pray, after my words are long forgotten, that your word would be remembered. Jesus name. Amen. Exodus is an epic of God's love and redemption of his people. Every scene reads like an action novel. The baby in the basket, the burning bush, the plagues, the angel of death. The parting of the Red Sea, the thunder and lightning around Mount Sinai, the covenant with the Almighty. Before we dive into our text, we must read Exodus rightly. We have to read it Christologically, that is, in relation to Jesus Christ, who is our perfect sacrifice, who saved us out of our bondage to sin and delivered us into a right relationship with God. When Jesus appeared to his disciples on the road to emmaus in Luke 24:27 Records beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. If Jesus started with Moses when describing himself, perhaps we can also we also read it historically. Scholars debate whether the Exodus took place around 1446 BC or around 1260. Good evidence exists for both dates and ancient Israel did not work with an absolute calendar the way we do. But what matters for us this morning is not the precise year, but the fact that it is history, not myth. The renowned Old Testament scholar Nahum Sarna observed that no nation would invent for itself and then faithfully transmit for thousands of years an inglorious origin story of slavery, grumbling and and idolatry. Israel did not flatter itself into existence. This happened. Exodus 2:11 to 25 sits at 1 of the great hinge moments of redemptive history. The book opens with the sons of Jacob settling in Egypt under the protection of Joseph. But there arose a new king over Egypt who did not know Joseph. What begins as refuge becomes bonding. Hebrews multiplied, and Pharaoh, fearing them, enslaved them and decreed that every male child be cast into the Nile. Into that decree Moses is born. Wes laid out for us last week that Moses mother hides him, his sister watches over him, and then Pharaoh's daughter draws him out of the water. He grows up in the palace, Stephen tells us in Acts 7:22 that he was instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians and was mighty in his words and deeds. And that is where our passage begins. The structure that we will use this morning breaks down into four movements. Verses 11 to 14 Moses takes matters into his own hands. Verses 15 to 17 Moses flees and is shaped at a well. 18:22 Moses is welcomed and becomes a sojourner. 23 To 25 While Moses tends sheep, Israel groans and God acts. Start with 11 to 14. Moses has grown. Now the infant in the basket has become a man in Pharaoh's court, raised as Egyptian royalty. How much did he know about his true background growing up? Wes mentioned last week that Moses mother was allowed to nurse him. So did they still have a relationship? Certainly possible. There are so many unanswered questions. Did he live with a divided heart for years? Did he spend endless nights pleading with Pharaoh? Was he embarrassed by his background and didn't want to believe it? We have no idea. What we do know is that he was raised to be a prince of Egypt. But by the time he was 40, he knew exactly who he was and who his brothers and sisters truly were. Were. One day he goes out to his brothers, the Hebrews, and he looks on their burdens. And what he sees he cannot unsee. An Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own. He looks this way and that, and when he sees no one watching, he strikes. Strikes the Egyptian down and buries him in the sand. Now this raises a nagging question for me. If Moses was a member of Pharaoh's household in the royal family, so to speak, why would he have feared killing someone? Wouldn't a royal be able to kill a lowly Egyptian taskmaster with little to no reprisal? This goes into the historical context at the time. Exodus 1:8 says, now there arose a new king over Egypt who did not know Joseph. Commentators note that this likely indicates a dynastic change. A new royal house with no political or familial loyalty to the previous regime. In fact, during either time period, you believe royal houses at that time were very politically unstable, with different factions having different claims to the crown. The princess who had adopted him was almost certainly aging or dead. And the reigning pharaoh would have viewed an adopted Hebrew with suspicion, not affection. And the man Moses killed was not a slave. He was an Egyptian official, a representative of Pharaoh's economic and political authority. This is crucial. In ancient Egypt, killing a Hebrew slave was something an Egyptian could do with little consequence. But a member of the royal household killing one of Pharaoh's taskmasters. This probably would not have looked so much like murder. It would have looked like the potential beginning of an insurrection. The next day, Moses goes out and this time he finds two Hebrews fighting each other. He steps in to make peace, and the man in the wrong rounds on him with words that must have cut deeply. Who made you a prince and a judge over us? Do you mean to kill us as you killed the Egyptian? And Moses is afraid. The secret is out. Beneath these interactions is something deeper that the New Testament helps us understand. The writer of Hebrews tells us this whole episode began in faith. By faith. Moses, when he was grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. He considered the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt, for he was looking to the Reward. That's Hebrews 11:24-26. When Moses walked out of the palace, he was not slumming, he was choosing. He looked at the gold of Egypt on the one hand and the suffering of God's people in the other. And he chose the suffering. That is faith. So what went wrong? Well, it can be summed up in the next phrase. He looked this way. That a long line of preachers have lingered over those words and noticed what was missing. As Chuck Swindoll says, he looked east, he looked west, he looked over his shoulder, but he didn't look up, did he? He looked in both directions horizontally, but he left the vertical completely out of it. Moses was a man with a true call, but a glance still fixed on the ground. Here is the heart of the problem. Moses tried to bring about by his own hand what God had promised to bring about by his covenant. The deliverer was right, the cause was right, the method was wrong, and the time was not yet. And the proof is what he is in what he does next. He hides the body in the sand, as if sand could keep a secret from God. Within a day, the rumor was loose. Within a week, Pharaoh wants him dead. Three things to take from these opening verses. First, a true call from God does not exempt a man from from the discipline of God's timing. Moses had the right cause and the right collar. But he ran ahead. And it will take 40 years in the desert to refine him. Second, hidden sin is a poor investment. Sand is a thin grave. What God means to expose, no man can keep buried. Third, there is mercy for those with juvenile or immature faith. John Calvin's pastoral word on this passage is really helpful. Even the obedience of the saints, stained as it is by sin, is still sometimes acceptable to God through his mercy. So Moses runs, but God was not finished with him. He was only beginning verses 15 through 17. Verse 15 begins with collapse. However noble Moses motives may have been, when he took matters into his own hands, he was outside the will of God. And yet God still had a plan for him. This is one of the great promises of Scripture. God uses sinners for his glory. It's the only kind he has to work with. When you read the heroes of the faith, they read a lot more like a Alcoholics Anonymous meeting than a catalog of superheroes. I can almost see them in a church basement, sitting in a circle on folding chairs, sipping bad coffee, introducing themselves. Hi, I'm Abraham and I'm a liar who pimped out my wife. Hi, I'm Jacob. I'm a deceiver and I'm a thief. How? Hi, I'm Samson and I'm a lust addicted vow breaker. Hi, I'm David. I'm an adulterer and a murderer. Hi, I'm Jonah and I'm a racist runaway. Hi, I'm Peter and I'm a coward who denied my Savior. Hi, I'm Moses and I'm a murderer. When Janet and I lived in Atlanta, we had a pastor who was fond of saying that God doesn't look for ability, he looks for availability. God uses broken people because it's his strength, it's his wisdom, it's his power, and it's for his glory. God would be using Moses, but he had some seasoning yet to experience. Verse 15. When Pharaoh heard of it, he sought to kill Moses. But Moses fled from Pharaoh and stayed in the land of Midian. There's no firm consensus on where exactly Midian was, but the traditional and most widely accepted location is in northwest Arabia, east of the Gulf of Agapa, in what is now northwestern Saudi Arabia. The Midianites appear to have been a semi nomadic people, so Midian may refer to an area where the tribe ranged rather than a specific location. Calvin, commenting here, sees in Moses flight not cowardice, but the sovereign hand of God, breaking a man down before he builds him up. Calvin's instinct is that the Lord put his servant through a long banishment precisely so that he would learn humility and dependence, because the work for which he was designed was greater than human strength could compass. 40 Years of palace training had to be matched by 40 years of desert undoing. Augustine, in a different connection, spoke of being in the region of unlikeness that far country, where the soul learns who it is by losing what it had. Moses, sitting by that well is in the region of unlikeness. Verse 15 ends noting that Moses, obviously exhausted, sat down by a well. One of the beauties of Scripture is the inclusion of what so often to us seems like pointless details. But wells, as it turns out, is an important location in the Bible, specifically, if you are looking for a wife. In Genesis 24, Abraham's servant meets Rebekah, Isaac's future wife, at a well. In Genesis 29, Jacob meets Rachel at a well. This time, who is Moses going to meet? Verses 16 and 17. Now, the priest of Midian had seven daughters, and they came and drew water and filled the troughs to water their father's flock. The shepherds came and drove them away, but Moses stood up to save them and watered their flock. Moses is once again faced with injustice. Has he learned anything? A group of young women have come to the well to draw water, and a group of shepherds is going to give them a hard time. Moses, again courageously rises to their defense. Already we see clues that he is learning from his past mistakes. The text does not record that he killed the shepherds, and not only that he served the young women by watering their flock. For the first time, he was learning what it was to be a deliverer. He stands firm for what is just and begins to practice true leadership, which is born out of service. It would have been unthinkable at the time for a man to perform a menial task for women. But Moses stooped to serve. And by learning to serve, he was learning to lead. For all God's leaders are servants. He, in time, the one who is the true and better. Moses would himself kneel and wash 12 pairs of dirty feet and tell his disciples that whoever wants to be great must be a servant of all. Service is always one of the first courses in God's leadership training. Anyone who aspires to spiritual leadership, especially in the church, should begin by finding a place of humble service. If you travel to my alma mater, Wheaton College, one of the most striking little buildings on campus is the Marion E. Wade center, which houses the largest collection of C.S. Lewis writings in the world. Its namesake, Marian Wade, was an American businessman and founder of the large company Servicemaster. Wade was a man of deep faith who established a tradition called six weeks on the front lines. Every future executive at the company would spend six weeks scrubbing floors on hands and knees, doing the work of those they would later lead. Wade believed that those who refused to serve had no business leading. One of the other blessings of servant leadership is that when kids watch authentic service from their parents, it has a tendency to be passed down through the generations. The other founder of Service Master was a gentleman by the name of Ken Hanson. Ken's son, Walter Hanson, when he grew up, would move to Cleveland. He started a little church in his living room. And it grew, and it grew to about a thousand. In 10 years, the church would grow into what is now called Parkside Church. And if that name rings a bell, it would be because it's the church that Alistair Begg just retired from. It's amazing how these things pass down. Moses is being molded. Though he must feel lost and alone, God is right there, directing the most salient detail, refining his champion. God creates this dress rehearsal. The stage is a backwater. Well, the cast is seven anonymous girls, but the script is the same script that would one day be played out at the Red Sea. This is how God so often works. CS Lewis, in his collected letters, wrote that the great thing, if one can, is to stop regarding all the unpleasant things as interruptions of one's own or real life. The truth is, of course, that what one calls the interruptions are precisely one's real life, the life God is sending one day by day, Moses thought his real life had ended at the border of Egypt. In fact, his real life was just beginning in Midian. There are seasons of our lives where it seems to have been derailed, where the calling we thought we had has collapsed and we find ourselves sitting by a well in some unfamiliar place. The temptation is to read those seasons as God's absence. But this text invites us to read them as God's curriculum. The God who is going to deliver Israel is at this very moment teaching his deliverer how to stand up for seven helpless women at a watering trough. Nothing in your wilderness is wasted. Turn to verses 18 to 22. The daughters return home and their father called Ruel here or Jethro elsewhere, most likely the same man. So don't get confused. Very common at the time for there to be multiple names for somebody. And he asked why they're early, and they say, an Egyptian delivered us. It's a quietly ironic line. Moses has gone out to deliver Hebrews and was rejected as a meddling Egyptian. He flees to Midian and is received as a generous Egyptian. The man cannot escape his identity, and yet his identity is not what God will make of it. Ruel rebukes his daughters for leaving the man unhosted. Call him that. He may eat bread and Moses is brought in. Verse 21 simply says Moses was content to dwell with the man. The Hebrew verb here ya all carries the sense of consenting, of being willing, even of resigning oneself. Moses is not striving anymore. He has come to the end of his striving. He sits down and he stays. The Book of Acts tells us that 40 years passed between Moses flight to Midian and his encounter with God at the burning bush. D.L. Moody is often quoted as saying Moses spent 40 years in Egypt learning to be something. 40 Years in the desert learning to be nothing. And 40 years in the wilderness proving God to be everything. Philip Reichen notes that whenever we are tempted to grow impatient with God's timetable for our lives, we should remember Moses, who spent two years of preparation for every year of ministry. Zipporah is given to Moses as a wife and a son is born. Moses names him Gershom new meaning I have become an alien in a foreign land. The name comes from the Hebrew verb garash, which means to drive out or expel. It may refer to Moses own experience of being driven out of Egypt. It also sounds like the Hebrew words ger and sham, which is a pun that means an alien there. Every time Moses speaks his son's name, he confesses that he does not belong. Midian is not home. Egypt is not home. He is a man between worlds. The Puritans loved this theme of sojourning. John Owen described the believer as a stranger and a pilgrim traveling through a country not his own, with his heart fixed on a city whose builder and maker is God. Jonathan Edwards preached a famous sermon called the Christian Pilgrim, in which he said that the true Christian travels on through this world as a wayfaring man and looks not upon any of the enjoyments of this world as his own. GK Chesterton, with his usual paradox, put it this way. How can we contrive to be at once astonished at the world and and yet at home in it? The answer of Scripture is that we cannot. Not fully, not yet. We are pilgrims. Gershom is the name of every saint. But notice Moses, sojourning is not a punishment, it is a preparation. RC Sproul emphasized that the entire 40 year sojourn in Midian was God's way of thinking. Moses for leadership, a man trained only in Pharaoh's court could not lead Israel through Pharaoh's wilderness. But a man who had himself become a shepherd of sheep in that very wilderness could one day shepherd God's people through it. The geography of Midian is the geography of the Exodus. Route. The skills Moses learned watering Reuel's flock are the skills he would use leading Israel's flock. God was not killing time. God was forging an instrument. And Moses doesn't know he names his son after his displacement. He doesn't name him soon to be deliverer or heir of promise. He names him Sojourner. The man cannot see what God is doing. Alistair Begg has spoken movingly of how God's people are very often in the dark about the brightness of God's plan for them. Moses is in the dark, but the brightness is gathering. If you are a Christian, you are a Gershom. You are a sojourner in a foreign land. The disquiet you feel, the restlessness, the sense that this world is not home is not a defect of your discipleship. It is a feature of it. CS Lewis spoke of this often when he talked about the pilgrim longing in Mere Christianity. He wrote, if we find ourselves with a desire that nothing in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that we were made for another world. The long ordinary years in which it seems nothing of eternal weight is happening to you are very likely the years in which God is doing his deepest work. Verses 23 and 20 through 25. And now the camera pulls back, just like in a movie. We get a break from the action in Midian and the screen flashes. Meanwhile, back in Egypt. Verse 23. During those many days, the king of Egypt died and the people of Israel groaned because of their slavery and cried out for help. 40 Years have passed. A Pharaoh has died, another has come. Nothing has changed for Israel. They are still in chains. Bricks still must be made, whips still fall. And from those brick fields raises a sound. The text uses the strongest words in Hebrew for it. A groaning, a crying, a shrieking that goes up out of the dust. Where does the cry go? To all human eyes, the cry goes nowhere. Pharaoh doesn't hear it. The Egyptians don't hear it. Moses doesn't hear it. And then come four of the most precious verbs in the Old Testament. Their cry for rescue from slavery came up to God, and God heard their groaning. And God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac and with Jacob. God saw the people of Israel, and God knew. God heard. God remembered. God saw. God knew. John Piper has called these four verbs the Gospel before the Gospel, the announcement hundreds of years before Bethlehem that the God of heaven is not a deistic clock maker, but a covenant father who hears the groaning of his enslaved children. Each verb carries a war world. God heard, not merely overheard, the Hebrew implies attentive, responsive, hearing the cry that no human ear answered, the cry that seemed to die in the air over the Egyptian sky. The cry arrived at the throne of heaven. The silence of God is never the deafness of God. When his people cry, he hears with the ears of a father. God remembered. This does not mean that God had forgotten and now recalled. To remember in the covenantal sense is to act upon a prior commitment. When Scripture says God remembered Noah, the next thing is that the waters subside. When it says he remembered Hannah, the next thing is that she conceives. When it says he remembered his covenant with Abraham, the next thing is the Exodus. God's remembrance is the prelude to his deliverance, the covenant he made 400 years before. I will be a God to you and to your offspring after you has not faded. He was about to honor it. God saw. The verb is the same verb used in Genesis 1. And God saw that it was good. It is the verb of attentive, evaluating, sight. He saw the bruises, he saw the broken backs. He saw the widows, the unburied babies. There is no suffering of his people that is hidden from him. The Scottish divine Samuel Rutherford, writing from his imprisonment in Aberdeen, often returned to the image of God as the watchman over Israel, who never slumbers, whose people's tears are gathered in heaven long before they fall to the ground. God sees and God knew. Interestingly, the verb stands alone in the Hebrew. There is no object God knew. Some translations may supply one. God knew their condition, but the Hebrew leaves it bare. Why? Perhaps because what God knows here is larger than any object can contain. He knows their pain, he knows their bondage, he knows their names, and he knows what he is about to do. Jonathan Edwards taught that every act of God in history is the unfolding of a purpose conceived before time began. God knew. While Moses sits in Midian thinking he had been forgotten, and while Israel cries in Egypt, thinking that they have been forgotten, neither has been forgotten. God is doing two things at once. In Midian, he is shaping his deliverer. In Egypt, he is hearing their cries. The two threads are converging towards a burning bush in the next chapter. But neither Moses nor Israel can see it. Yet Augustine in his Confessions, wrote this sentence. Thou, O Lord, wert more inward to me than my most inward part and higher than my highest. That is the God of Exodus 2. He is closer to Israel's groaning than the chains on their wrists. He is closer to Moses weariness than the dust on his sandals. He is not far off. He is not distracted, he is at work. Four thoughts to close. First, be still and know that he is God. What we are very often is people who run ahead of God. Moses is not alone in this. Abraham had the promise of a son and and couldn't wait until he took Hagar. And the household of faith has lived with the consequences ever since. Jacob had the blessing already promised to him, but couldn't wait, and so he stole it with a goatskin and a lie. Peter had a lord he loved and couldn't bear to see him arrested. So he drew a sword in Gethsemane and cut off a man's ear. The pattern is older than Moses, and it is as new as this morning. The right cause can be pursued in the wrong way and the wrong time. Bradley Gray puts it bluntly. Nothing good happens when you get ahead of God and take matters into your own hands. Second, the silence of God is not the absence of God. 40 Years passed in Midian and 400 years in Egypt before God spoke from the bush. But not one of those years was empty. God was hearing, he was remembering. He was seeing, he was knowing. If your life feels like a wilderness right now, if you have been sitting by your own well in Midian waiting for a word from heaven that just doesn't come, take this passage and press it to your heart. The silence is not absence. The God who shaped Moses in obscurity is shaping you now. In his 1967 book Spiritual Leadership, J. Oswald Sanders quoted this anonymous poem. When God wants to drill a man and thrill a man, and skill a man. When God wants to mold a man to play the noblest part, when he yearns with all his heart to create so great and bold a man that all the world shall be amazed. Watch his methods, watch his ways, how he ruthlessly perfects whom he royally elects. How his hammer he hammers him and hurts him and with mighty blows converts him into trial shapes of clay which only God understands. While his tortured heart is crying and he lifts beseeching hands, how he bends but never breaks when his good he undertakes, how he uses whom he chooses and with every purpose him by every act induces him to try his splendor out. God knows what he's about. Third, your sojourning has a destination. Moses named his son Gershom because he felt the foreignness of his life. But the foreignness was not the end of the story. It was the prelude to a calling. The writer of Hebrews tells us that all the saints acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. They desired a better country. That is a heavenly one. Your pilgrimage is not a pointless one wandering. It is a movement towards a country God has prepared for you. Fourth, and most importantly, the God who heard Israel has heard you in a fuller way still. The end of Exodus 2 is a foreshadowing. The four verbs heard, remembered, saw new, find their final fulfillment not at Sinai, but at Calvary. There the Father heard the cries of his people. There he remembered the covenant he had made before the foundations of the world. There he saw his Son lifted up between heaven and earth, bearing the groaning of every enslaved soul in his own body. And there he knew in a way only the triune God could know the cost of redeeming a people for himself. If God heard Israel groaning under Pharaoh and he sent Moses, how much more has he heard your groaning and sent his son? The exodus from Egypt is the shadow. The exodus from sin and death is the substance. And the same four verbs hover over the cross. Today God hears your cries that come up from the dust of this fallen world. God remembers his covenant with you. God sees you right now in this room, in your struggle, in your brokenness. And God knows exactly what he's doing. Let's pray. Father, thank you for this text. Father, thank you for your covenant with us. That you know us, that you love us, that you see us, that no prayer goes unheard, no silence is a waste. And that wherever we are in our life, whatever burdens we are carrying, that you're right here. That you are molding us and you are creating us in just the way that you had planned for us before the creation of the world. Thank you for who you are. In Jesus name, amen. The post Moses Flees to Midian – Exodus 2: 11-25 appeared first on Red Village Church.

Faith, Freedom and Family: A Timely Call to Action -- In an era marked by deep political polarization and societal fragmentation, a compelling new voice emerges, urging a return to foundational values … GUEST Timothy Goeglein … former 8-year Special Assistant to President G W Bush and VP of Govt and External Relations at Focus on the Family … author of “What Really Matters: Restoring a Legacy of Faith, Freedom, and Family” On Discipleship ... GUEST Dr Amy Peeler … The Kenneth T Wessner Chair in Biblical Studies and Prof of New Testament at Wheaton College … also Assoc Rector at St Mark’s Epis Church, Geneva, IL … author of “Women and the Gender of God” Ethical issues criminal defense attorneys face: how you and Kathy would handle them.… GUEST Bruce Antkowiak … Senior Counsel to the College & Archabbey, Past Chair of the Criminology Dept and Professor of Law at Saint Vincent College.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do you do when the dream God gave you feels completely disconnected from the reality you're living? When life feels unfair, painful, delayed, or deeply disappointing, it can be easy to wonder if God has forgotten you. In this episode, Christine Caine walks through the story of Joseph in Genesis 37–50 — one where betrayal, waiting, setbacks, and suffering aren't the end of the narrative. They're the process. From the pit to Potiphar's house. From prison to the palace. God wasn't absent in Joseph's darkest chapters. He was positioning him. Christine Caine shows that the painful seasons aren't detours from your purpose. They are the preparation for it. If you're in a waiting room right now, wondering whether God has forgotten the dream He placed in you, this message is for you. ✨ If you've ever asked questions like… ✅ Why would God allow painful seasons if He gave me the dream? ✅ What do I do when I feel forgotten or overlooked? ✅ Can God still use my trauma and setbacks for good? ✅ How do I forgive people who have deeply hurt me? ✅ How do I trust God's timing when the wait feels unbearable? ✅ What does faithfulness look like when nothing is going the way I planned? ✅ Is it possible for my story to still turn out the way God intended? ...then listen in!

Marriage, Divorce and Fornication (1) (audio) David Eells, 5/24/26   Scriptural Marriage and Divorce David Eells I know this can be a real can of worms and such a touchy subject when dealing with people who love each other, but we owe it to the brethren to speak the truth concerning their eternal life. We must consider scripture rather than human reasoning, which has gotten a lot of people in trouble and they don't know why they are there. Here are some basic things the Lord has shown from scripture on divorce and remarriage: Jesus' commands superseded the Jews' permission for divorce by His statements, so we cannot go to the law to justify divorce. (Mat.19:8) He said to them, Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. Once again religion is wrong. Hardened hearts cannot be turned easily but in respecting scripture there is safety. There is only one reason for divorce. (9) And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for fornication (Numeric) and marries another woman commits adultery.” If a spouse commits fornication, whether outside of the first marriage or by illegal remarriage, the other is free to remarry because the first spouse broke the marriage bond. Being legally able to remarry does not mean this is God's will for you. God loves to restore. If your mate repents and asks your forgiveness, then forgive as Christ forgave you. Also, spiritual fornication of the heart is not an excuse, for the scripture speaks of physical fornication of the body. You may be concerned, thinking, “What can I do if I got married before I came to the Lord?” Don't worry about that, because everything we did before we came to the Lord was sin, and we can't go back and do anything about it. After you're saved, you are now a new creation in the Lord, and your sins are washed clean by the blood of Christ. The disciples admitted this was a hard statement, and many think so today, but it is better to obey than to bring yourselves under a curse that many endure. (Mat.19:10) The disciples said to Him, “If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.” Even in the Old Testament, it was fornication for a believer to be married to an unbeliever but hear me out... (Ezr.9:2) For they have taken of their daughters for themselves and for their sons, so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the peoples of the lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass. ... (Ezr.10:10) And Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have trespassed, and have married foreign women, to increase the guilt of Israel. (11) Now therefore make confession unto Jehovah, the God of your fathers, and do his pleasure; and separate yourselves from the peoples of the land, and from the foreign women. Don't act here without reading on. And so it is in the New Covenant: (1Co.7:39) A wife is bound for so long time as her husband liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is free to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. Notice we are to marry “only in the Lord”. (1Co.9:5) Have we no right to lead about a wife that is a believer. Notice the condition, the wife must be a believer.. (2Co.6:14) Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness? (15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what portion hath a believer with an unbeliever? (If one becomes one with an unbeliever to some extent they are leavening themselves.)(16) And what agreement hath a temple of God with idols? for we are a temple of the living God; even as God said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (17) Wherefore Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, And touch no unclean thing; And I will receive you. Better not even to date an unbeliever, saints. You don't want to go there because it will bring you a lot of heartache and curses in the future. However, God makes a concession in the New Testament when a person comes to the Lord with an unbelieving spouse because the unbelieving spouse might eventually be saved through their faith. (1Co.7:12) But to the rest say I, not the Lord: If any brother hath an unbelieving wife, and she is content to dwell with him, let him not leave her. (13) And the woman that hath an unbelieving husband, and he is content to dwell with her, let her not leave her husband. (14) For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in the brother: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. If that spouse, as an unbeliever, departs, you can remarry. (15) Yet if the unbelieving departeth, let him depart: the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such [cases]... Even if you are remarried illegally many times before coming to the Lord, the commands are to Christians and are not retroactive to the old life, for we are a new creation, cleansed of all past sins. Also, Christians can do things in ignorance that are under the blood, for knowledge precedes sin in the New Testament, as before the Law. (Rom.5:13) for until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (Rom.7:8)... for apart from the law sin [is] dead. (Jas.4:17) To him therefore that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. (Joh.15:22) If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no excuse for their sin. This is not an excuse for someone to falsely claim ignorance because God looks on the heart and knows all; He knows what you understand and what you do not. Judgment is sure for fornicators and adulterers. (1Co.6:9) Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators (Basically illegal sexual actions), nor idolaters, nor adulterers (Sometimes this is marrying someone who is already married and not scripturally divorced), nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, (10) nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (Rev.21:7) He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (8) But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part [shall be] in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death. Marriage and divorce can be a very convoluted problem. If, after diligently searching into all that the New Covenant teaches on this subject and asking elders with no satisfaction, remember what Moses did. (Exo.18:25) And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens. (26) And they judged the people at all seasons: the hard causes they brought unto Moses, but every small matter they judged themselves. God told Moses that he would be as God to Israel. For some things, we need to get a word from our Lord. But be careful that you don't receive a flesh pleasing answer from your own mind. Samson kept choosing women for looks rather than staying with scripture and it got him killed. Let's look at what Paul wrote to the Corinthians about marriage. (1Co.7:1) Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. (2) But, because of fornications, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. (3) Let the husband render unto the wife her due: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. (4) The wife hath not power over her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power over his own body, but the wife. (5) Defraud ye not one the other, except it be by consent for a season, that ye may give yourselves unto prayer, and may be together again, that Satan tempt you not because of your incontinency. (6) But this I say by way of concession, not of commandment. (7) Yet I would that all men were even as I myself. Howbeit each man hath his own gift from God, one after this manner, and another after that. (If you're not married, then you won't be distracted, but not everybody has this gift to be celibate, and we're told, (Pro.18:22) Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, And obtaineth favor of the Lord.) (8) But I say to the unmarried and to widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. (9) But if they have not continency, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. (10) But unto the married I give charge, [yea] not I, but the Lord, That the wife depart not from her husband (11) (but should she depart, let her remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband); and that the husband leave not his wife.  (I know there are circumstances where a believing or unbelieving husband can be very obnoxious, very overbearing, very sinful, and that's very crucifying to the wife, but that's not an excuse to leave. In most cases, unless he is asking the wife to willfully sin, there can be submission on her part. However, no one should stay in a situation where their life or the lives of their children are in physical danger. We have permission in such a case to flee (Matthew 24:16; Luke 21:21; etc.). (12) But to the rest say I, not the Lord: If any brother hath an unbelieving wife, and she is content to dwell with him, let him not leave her. (13) And the woman that hath an unbelieving husband, and he is content to dwell with her, let her not leave her husband. (14) For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in the brother: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. Sanctified here means that the influence of you Christian life can save them and also your faith can stand in for them. (15) Yet if the unbelieving departeth, let him depart: the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us in peace. (Just know that in the New Testament, being married to an unbeliever is not grounds to leave them; again, only if they leave you, are you free. In the Old Testament, however, if a believer married a non-believer, they demanded a divorce over that because for Jews to be married to non-Jews was fornication (Nehemiah 13:23-30; Ezra chapters 9 and 10). (Neh.13:26) Did not Solomon king of Israel sin by these things? yet among many nations was there no king like him, and he was beloved of his God, and God made him king over all Israel: nevertheless even him did foreign women cause to sin. (27) Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to trespass against our God in marrying foreign women? Back to (1Cor.7:16) For how knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? Or how knowest thou, O husband, whether thou shalt save thy wife? …(25) Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: but I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be trustworthy. (26) I think therefore that this is good by reason of the distress that is upon us, [namely,] that it is good for a man to be as he is. (27) Art thou bound unto a wife? Seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? Seek not a wife. (28) But shouldest thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Yet such shall have tribulation in the flesh: and I would spare you. (29) But this I say, brethren, the time is shortened, that henceforth both those that have wives may be as though they had none; (In other words don't let this distract from your service to God.) (30) and those that weep, as though they wept not; and those that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and those that buy, as though they possessed not; (31) and those that use the world, as not using it to the full: for the fashion of this world passeth away. (32) But I would have you to be free from cares. He that is unmarried is careful for the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord; (In other words, they're not divided in their attention. However, people don't have to be divided in their attention; they can be celibate or they can always put the Lord first.) (33) but he that is married is careful for the things of the world, how he may please his wife, (Well, if a man is married, it's necessary for him to please his wife, but not to the extent that he lets her be the head of the house; that's bad, very bad. That's like Jezebel and Ahab  and I'll share more on that later.) (34) and is divided. [So] also the woman that is unmarried and the virgin is careful for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married is careful for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. (Is this a bad thing? No, it's commanded, as a matter of fact. It's not a bad thing; it's just that your ability to have your total attention on the Lord without being distracted by family situations is going to be limited. God created the family, so He's not against families. He's against families where they're not married, obviously. What Paul is saying is that if a woman is married, she has to please her husband.) (35) And this I say for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is seemly, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction. (36) But if any man thinketh that he behaveth himself unseemly toward his virgin [daughter], if she be past the flower of her age, and if need so requireth, let him do what he will; he sinneth not; let them marry. (You have to understand that a woman was under the authority of her father until she married.)(37) But he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power as touching in his own heart, to keep his own virgin [daughter], shall do well. (38) So then both he that giveth his own virgin [daughter] in marriage doeth well; and he that giveth her not in marriage shall do better. (39) A wife is bound for so long time as her husband liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is free to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. (40) But she is happier if she abide as she is, after my judgment: and I think that I also have the Spirit of God.   Polygamy in the Church? Question from a sister: Someone told me that polygamy is allowed by God! I don't believe this, but I had no way to refute this claim. I tried finding some scriptures, but to no avail. When I looked this subject up on the internet, I actually found a “Christian” website promoting polygamy. What will they think of next? Can you share some scriptures that refute this claim? My answer: Under the Law, they were permitted to have more than one wife and divorce their wives because of their “hardness of heart” but under grace, there is no such permission. Jesus said a man could have one wife and “the two shall become one flesh.” (Mat.19:5-8) and said, For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh? So that they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. They say unto him, Why then did Moses command to give a bill of divorcement, and to put [her] away? He saith unto them, Moses for your hardness of heart suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it hath not been so. From the beginning, God gave Adam, the Son of God, one wife. It appears his righteous seed through Seth were monogamous also. Cain's evil descendant, Lamech, was the first to take two wives. (Gen.4:19) And Lamech took unto him two wives. In order that a line of Israel not be extinct, the next of kin was permitted to raise up seed to a dead man's wife. But the seed of New Testament spiritual Israel is passed on through the Word (seed or sperma) of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit. Although they disobeyed God, the Kings of Israel were forbidden to multiply wives. (Deu.17:17-19) Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold. And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book, out of [that which is] before the priests the Levites: and it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life; that he may learn to fear Jehovah his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them. The Apostles had one wife. (1Co.9:5) Have we no right to lead about a wife that is a believer, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? All of God's people must be upright, but Paul required elders to be “without reproach” and “blameless” in that they were to be the “husband of one wife.” This is definitely one wife at a time because fornication is a legal ground for divorce and remarriage (1 Corinthians 7), and the death of a spouse is a legal ground to remarry. (1Ti.3:2) The bishop therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, orderly, given to hospitality, apt to teach. (12) Let deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling [their] children and their own houses well. (Tit.1:6,7) if any man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having children that believe, who are not accused of riot or unruly. For the bishop must be blameless, as God's steward... If the elders or the mature in the Lord need to be upright in having one wife, all need to be this way to be mature. The husband is the head of one wife as Christ is the head of one church. (Eph.5:23-33) For the husband is the head of the wife (not wives), as Christ also is the head of the church, [being] himself the saviour of the body. (24) But as the church is subject to Christ, so [let] the wives also [be] to their husbands in everything. (25) Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it; (26) that he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word, (27) that he might present the church to himself a glorious [church], not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. (28) Even so ought husbands also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his own wife loveth himself: (29) for no man ever hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as Christ also the church; (30) because we are members of his body. (31) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife (not wives); and the two shall become one flesh. (32) This mystery is great: but I speak in regard of Christ and of the church. (33) Nevertheless do ye also severally love each one his own wife even as himself; and [let] the wife [see] that she fear her husband. Now, I want to share this, too. Men, do not appease a Jezebel spirit; it's going to seduce you and lead you astray. This is our command from God. (Eph.5:22) Wives, [be in subjection] unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. (The Lord, not I, said this, but those who have a Jezebel spirit will still get angry, although this is the truth. We have to obey God's Word, or we can't call ourselves “disciples.”) (23) For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, (Just as much as Jesus is Head of the Church, the husband is the head of the wife.), [being] himself the saviour of the body. (If a wife does not obey her husband, she is not going to get saved.) (24) But as the church is subject to Christ, so [let] the wives also [be] to their husbands in everything. (To make this possible for the wife, we are then told,) (25) Husbands, love your wives (Feeling unloved isn't an excuse for a wife to disobey her husband, but love makes it easier for the wife to obey her husband.), even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself up for it. Men, loving your wife does not include giving in to a Jezebel spirit. Giving in means you are putting yourself under a demon spirit and taking yourself and your family out from under God. If you do that, you will pay the price. On the other hand, do not judge the lost wife. God insists on Christ the Word being your Head. Don't judge her, but don't allow her to be your Head. If Jesus is not your Head, then you are following a false god. It's very plain. (Mat.12:30) He that is not with me is against me… If, because of your stand for Christ, your wife leaves you, then suffer for Christ's sake. We all have to suffer in one way or another, but do not follow a false god. The Bible says, (1Co.7:15) Yet if the unbelieving departeth, let him depart: the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such [cases:] but God hath called us in peace If your spouse leaves because you follow Jesus, then so be it. You are not bound in such a case; God never really wants you to be married to an unbeliever anyway. He says to stay married to them only if they are content to dwell with you, because they can be saved through your witness. Amen! The wife who has an unbelieving husband should obey him up to, but not including, moral sin. (1Pe.3:1) In like manner, ye wives, [be] in subjection to your own husbands; that, even if any obey not the word, they may without the word be gained by the behavior of their wives. (Read our book on our site, Word Woman and Authority.) If you want to be a disciple of Jesus, you have to follow the Word. If you want to be a “Christian” and not be a disciple of Jesus, you are not going to be saved. It's that simple. The word “Christian” is a very loose term in our day, meaning almost nothing. In the early days, people were called “Christians” because they followed Christ Jesus and did His works. Today, the word “Christian” should mean more, but, sadly, it doesn't mean much to people. Jesus told us, (Mat.10:34) Think not that I came to send peace on the earth (You might think, “Peace between me and my wife is the most important. I have to do whatever I have to do.” No, you don't. Jesus did not come to send peace on the earth.): I came not to send peace, but a sword. (And that “sword” is to divide those who are loyal to God's Word from those who are not.) (35) For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law (Now, there are many more relationships. He's just making a point.): (36) and a man's foes [shall be] they of his own household. When you come to God, and they have not, you have no communion there. The Bible says, (2Co.6:14) Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness? If you follow the Lord, they can be converted by your witness. If you don't follow the Lord, you have no favor from God, and in that event, don't expect your family to be saved. For your family to be saved, the most important thing for you to do is follow the Lord as a disciple of Jesus Christ and have favor from God. He will save your family if you believe Him for it. (Mat.10:37) He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. You can love people more than you love the Word. The Lord and Word are the same. If you love someone or something more than the Word, you are going to be deceived. It's possible to pity demon-possessed people and then, through demons manipulating that pity, to be deceived and fall right into their situation. Don't believe that all those who call themselves “Christian” are going to be saved, because (Mat.10:38) And he that doth not take his cross and follow after me, is not worthy of me. (We are to die on our “cross” in order to gain our higher life, the life of the born-again man.) (39) He that findeth his life (This is the old psuche life.) shall lose it; (39) and he that loseth his life (Again, this is the old psuche life, the carnal self.) for my sake shall find it. Let me share with you a testimony we have on our site called:   Marriage Lost and Found William and Jamie Leek - 02/09/2010 My wife and I have been separated and near divorce twice since the year 2000 because we loved “our sin”, plain and simple. The first separation was in 2002 and 2003. This separation wasn't as bad as the second, but there were a lot of lies and deceit practiced by both parties during the first separation. We got back together in 2003, where our “Mother in the Lord” renewed our vows. The only problem with this is that we were still mocking God in our walks with Him and still “playing church.” We had made a “confession” of Jesus Christ, but we were not being taught the “whole counsel of God,” so we thought the Lord forgave our sin at the cross, and we were “Covered in the Blood.” According to Matthew 12:43-45, when we confessed Christ and His blood cleansed us from our sin and the curse, we allowed that sin to remain in our lives. The demons, which plagued us, brought seven more back with them, stronger than the first. Thus, we were worse off than ever before. We thank the Lord for His mercy, grace, and long-suffering with us. In 2004 came the second separation. This time, the Lord had given us both over to the desires of our very own wicked hearts and allowed us to sink to levels of darkness that we never knew we had in us. During our second separation, the Lord allowed us to see just how sick the human heart, will, and emotions really are (Jeremiah 17:9). During this time of separation, we both fled at top speed back into the world, and we returned to our old ways. I began to smoke pot again (all day EVERYDAY), and she began to drink more than she ever did. We both began to sleep around with other people outside of our marriage. We were separated for nine months, and the combined number of people the two of us slept with was 16. The Lord really allowed us to fall to the bottom of the depths of the sea of sin, which our lives had become. We were going to a little Pentecostal church at the time when these separations took place. It was here we met a woman I considered to be like a mother in the Lord. She loved my wife and family with all her heart. She took time to come to our home and share the scriptures with us once a week for an extended period of time. She believed with her whole heart that we were “called” to the ministry. She would call me in the middle of the night and say, “I woke up in tears, praying in tongues because I just had such a burden for your family.” The Lord would end up using this mighty woman of God and her fervent prayer life to reconcile our marriage and heal our family. She also told me during the 2004 separation that the Lord gave her a dream where He showed her my family living together in a home happier than we had ever been. This, of course, did not matter to me at the time because my heart was full of rage and hatred. I don't believe in accidents; I believe in the sovereign God written about in the scriptures. In January of 2005, I took a trip to Florida with a woman with whom I had been committing adultery. We drove down together, but for some reason at the end of the trip I made her get on a plane, and I drove home alone. On the trip home, my wife and I started to talk again. The Lord also began to really convict me of my sin. Even though, at the time, I did not understand the meaning of “conviction of sin.” All I knew was that I had an overwhelming feeling of guilt for what I was doing. I knew that a change had to come. In April of 2005, my wife and I really started to talk again on a regular basis. At the beginning of May, we had been together for the entire weekend when we received a phone call from a lady with whom we had gone to church. This lady had news that would shake my wife and me to the very core of our being. She told me that my Mother in the Lord, Shirley Summers, was dying of cancer. Well, this is where we know the Lord began to heal our marriage. When the woman shared this news with me on the phone, I began to weep. With tears streaming down my face, I shared the news with my wife, and we shared tears together. She looked at me and said, “I am going to my parents' house, and I'm getting my things, and I am coming home.” That was on May 4, 2005. The next day, my mom called me on the phone and told me that Shirley had gone on to glory. The reason this stands out as one of the most important events in our marriage is that this woman prayed for us fervently (James 5:16). She never stopped believing in our call to the ministry, and she stood in faith for our marriage when we couldn't. Also, the number “5” in the scriptures signifies “GRACE,” and we didn't realize that until a year later, that our Mother in the Lord had died on 5/05/05, a number and day of GRACE. The Lord was very long-suffering with my wife and me. It was not until after we reconciled that we ran across a website where we began to hear the “full Gospel” being preached. We had never heard all the important doctrines taught throughout the scriptures. We had not been taught about repentance, obedience, holiness, or real Bible faith. We also realized that neither one of us was truly saved, as spoken of in the Bible. The scariest thing of all is that we realized that if the Lord would have called our numbers, we would have gone to HELL! It has been a long journey for both of us, as we got rid of the leaven in our lives after leaving the organized church. Over the years, we have had to learn what it means to repent and to truly come to the Lord, believing who He is and that He rewards those who diligently seek Him. We thank the Lord for UBM for standing for the “TRUE GOSPEL”! Deuteronomy 4:30 When you are in tribulation, and all these things come upon you in the latter days, you will return to the Lord your God and obey his voice. Matthew 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Now, what about common law marriage? Is that biblical? Most states in America have abolished common law marriage, and only a few states recognize it as a legal marriage between two people who have not purchased a marriage license or had their marriage solemnized by a ceremony. The few states that do recognize it have conditional statutes. Scripture is clear that marriage is a binding commitment before witnesses and God; a public, covenantal relationship. It is a commitment agreement until death. When Christians marry, they commit to loving each other just as Christ loved the church. If you are not married, you are living in fornication.   Heterosexual and Homosexual Fornication Letter from a friend:  Hi! I have a neighbor friend with whom I've been having sort of an ongoing “discussion/argument” about whether sex outside of marriage is OK, according to the Bible. I know in my heart it is not, but he wants me to prove it to him with scripture. I haven't studied it extensively, but what I've read doesn't say it precisely enough to prove my point. There is one passage about two unwed people being found in the act and having to marry. Since the Ten Commandments do not say, thou shalt not have sex outside of marriage, he thinks it is ok. (LOL) Of course, the real issue is that he's not a born-again believer. But he asked me to prove it to him, so I'm going to try to do it. I don't know much about the Hebrew meanings of the words, etc. Can you help when you have time? :-) Thanks! My reply:  Fornication is the broad term that covers all sex outside of heterosexual marriage. Adultery, homosexuality, whoremonger, bestiality, and masturbation all fall under this category. The Greek word for fornication is “porneia”, from which we get pornography. Many commit fornication with pornography in print or on any visual screen, TV, social media sites, movies, etc. (Mat.5:28) but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. The same is true for any other illicit sexual desire. Repentance and faith deliver from these sins.   Heterosexual Fornication Everyone who has sex out of marriage is a fornicator. (1Co.7:1) Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. (7:2) But, because of fornications, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. All fornicators must repent or face eternal damnation. (1Co.6:9) Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, (10) nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (11) And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God. (15) Know ye not that your bodies are members of Christ? shall I then take away the members of Christ, and make them members of a harlot? God forbid. (16) Or know ye not that he that is joined to a harlot is one body? for, The twain, saith he, shall become one flesh. (17) But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. (18) Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. (1Co.10:8) Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. (Gal.5:19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]: fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness (License to “go beyond the things that are written”), (21) envyings, drunkenness, revellings, and such like; of which I forewarn you, even as I did forewarn you, that they who practise such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Rev.21:7) He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (8) But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part [shall be] in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death. (Rev.22:14) Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have the right [to come] to the tree of life, and my enter in by the gates into the city (the bride). (15) Without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loveth and maketh a lie. (1Co.7:9) But if they have not continency (self-control of sexual appetites), let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. (1Ti.5:14) I desire therefore that the younger [widows] marry, bear children, rule the household, give no occasion to the adversary for reviling: (15) for already some are turned aside after Satan. (Job.31:1) I made a covenant with mine eyes; How then should I look upon a virgin? (9) If my heart hath been enticed unto a woman, And I have laid wait at my neighbor's door; (10) Then let my wife grind unto another, And let others bow down upon her. (11) For that were a heinous crime; Yea, it were an iniquity to be punished by the judges: (12) For it is a fire that consumeth unto Destruction, And would root out all mine increase. (Pro.2:16) To deliver thee from the strange woman, Even from the foreigner that flattereth with her words; (17) That forsaketh the friend of her youth, And forgetteth the covenant of her God: (18) For her house inclineth unto death, And her paths unto the dead; (19) None that go unto her return again, Neither do they attain unto the paths of life: (Exo.22:16) And if a man entice a virgin that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely pay a dowry for her to be his wife. (17) If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins. (Deu.22:28) If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, that is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; (29) then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he hath humbled her; he may not put her away all his days. Do you believe that because you are “saved” that you can get away with this willful disobedience? (Jer.7:9) Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal, and walk after other gods that ye have not known, (10) and come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, We are delivered; that ye may do all these abominations? (11) Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, I, even I, have seen it, saith Jehovah. (12) But go ye now unto my place which was in Shiloh, where I caused my name to dwell at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel. (13) And now, because ye have done all these works, saith Jehovah, and I spake unto you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye answered not: (14) therefore will I do unto the house which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I did to Shiloh. (15) And I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim. That is just the Old Testament, you say? In any place that we are willfully disobedient, we need the fear of God. Sins of ignorance (Rom.5:13; 7:8,9) and sins of failure (Rom.7:19-25) are under the blood when we repent. However, we cannot claim the sacrificial benefits if we willfully walk in premeditated sin. (Heb.10:26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, (27) but a certain fearful expectation of judgment... Jesus bore all sin; He also bore the penalty for all sin, except willful disobedience. Notice that there is “no more a sacrifice” for that sin. We would have “a certain fearful expectation of judgment.” Many of us have been lied to about the cleansing of the blood. (1Jn.1:7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin. The blood cleanses the one who walks in the light of the Word, not in the darkness of willful disobedience. For willful disobedience, we are promised certain judgment. We pay the penalty for this sin here and now, as in the following verses: (Mat.18:34) And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors (demons), till he should pay all that was due. (35) So shall also my heavenly Father do unto you, if ye forgive not every one his brother from your hearts. God will use the demons to make us pay for a sin of the will. (Mat.5:25) Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art with him in the way; lest haply the adversary deliver thee to the judge (God), and the judge deliver thee to the officer (demon), and thou be cast into prison. (26) Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou have paid the last farthing. The prison here is spiritual bondage to sin and the curse, administered by the demons. Jesus came “...to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening [of the prison] to them that are bound” (Isa.61:1). Willful disobedience throws us back into the prison that Jesus delivered us from. David sinned willfully with Bathsheba. When he repented, Nathan the prophet said, “The Lord also hath put away thy sin”, but he also said, “The sword shall never depart from thy house.” In other words, I forgive you, but you will have to pay the penalty. This proved true, for David lost three sons and many people. His own son Absalom won the sympathy of the people and usurped the kingdom. David had to flee for his life. As parents we do not spank our children for failure or mistakes, but for willful disobedience. Paul said, “For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not (willed not), that I practice. But if what I would not (willed not), that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me” (Rom.7:19,20). Paul was failing God in a sin that his will was against. Notice that he hated the sin and was not accounted guilty; the old sin nature was guilty. When we are against the sin, God takes our side against the sin. He takes the side of the spiritual man against the old man. In this state, Paul cried out to the Lord. (24) Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death? Then he accepted God's promise of deliverance by faith. (25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Jesus bore the curse of the sin for a person who, like Paul, is repentant. The curse of death is upon the one who will not save themselves for marriage. (Deu.22:13) If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,(14) and lay shameful things to her charge, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came nigh to her, I found not in her the tokens of virginity; …(20) But if this thing be true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the damsel; (21) then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house: so shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee. Only repentance and faith in the sacrifice of Jesus removes this curse. (22) If a man be found lying with a woman married to a husband,(Adultery) then they shall both of them die, the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away the evil from Israel. (23) If there be a damsel that is a virgin betrothed unto a husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; (24) then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them to death with stones; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbor's wife: so thou shalt put away the evil from the midst of thee. (25) But if the man find the damsel that is betrothed in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her; then the man only that lay with her shall die: (26) but unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter; (27) for he found her in the field, the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.   Homosexual Fornication (Jude 1:7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, having in like manner with these given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh (Men with men/women with women), are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire. (2Pe.2:6) and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly; (7) and delivered righteous Lot, sore distressed by the lascivious life of the wicked (8) (for that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed [his] righteous soul from day to day with [their] lawless deeds): (9) the Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment; (10) but chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of defilement, and despise dominion. We have seen many people who fell into faction and ultimately into fornication of many kinds, and God reprobated them. Let me share a portion of a dream from Reynaldo Portela: In this dream, an angel put me in a room where a group of men was practicing homosexuality, and the angel told me, “The man who has sex with another man is going to regret it. God hates the practice of that sin.” (David: In the spiritual, we are reborn with Christ's spirit. Therefore, we should only sow Christ's spirit in our soul, which is our mind, will, and emotions. If we receive the spiritual seed of “men”, we often lose our first love and become reprobate.) (Rom.1:24) Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: (25) for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. (26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: (27) and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due. (28) And even as they refused to have God in [their] knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting (32) who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them. In an open vision, I, David, saw a factious group, and one of them that I knew left them and went behind a wall. The Lord said, “Follow him,” so I did. What I saw behind the wall was this man committing sodomy on 3 of his friends. Over the next day or two, I went to this man and told him my vision, and his eyes widened, and Michael and I both saw he was guilty. He didn't deny it, but later he threatened me. The factious leader told me about three times that he spoke with them during a certain time period, when he was supposed to be with us, and then he fell away three times. I told him he could not associate with them according to the Word. Eve Brast had a dream where they had captured her, and they were bisexual. Other factious leaders had the same problem and were also bisexual. They all have sexual perversion. Satan demands perversion from his servants. The DS are satanists also and are bisexual. They have the same spirits. God is always willing to deliver anyone like this if there is repentance. (Gal.5:19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]: fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, (21) ...they who practise such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (1Co.6:9) Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, (10) ... shall inherit the kingdom of God. (11) And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God. (Deu.23:17) There shall be no prostitute of the daughters of Israel, neither shall there be a sodomite of the sons of Israel. (18) Thou shalt not bring the hire of a harlot, or the wages of a dog, into the house of Jehovah thy God for any vow: for even both these are an abomination unto Jehovah thy God. (Rev.21:7) He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (8) But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part [shall be] in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death. (Rev.22:14) Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have the right [to come] to the tree of life, and my enter in by the gates into the city. (15) Without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loveth and maketh a lie. Sodomite Crossdressers -(1Ki.14:24) and there were also sodomites in the land: they did according to all the abominations of the nations which Jehovah drove out before the children of Israel. (1Ki.15:11) And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of Jehovah, as did David his father. (12) And he put away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made. (Deu.22:5) A woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment; for whosoever doeth these things is an abomination unto Jehovah thy God. (Lev.18:22) Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. (Lev.20:13) And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.   Bestiality (Exo.22:19) Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death. (Lev.18:23) And thou shalt not lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith; neither shall any woman stand before a beast, to lie down thereto: it is confusion. (Lev.20:15) And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast. (16) And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (Deu.27:21) Cursed be he that lieth with any manner of beast. And all the people shall say, Amen.   Masturbation (Gen.38:8) And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and perform the duty of a husband's brother unto her, and raise up seed to thy brother. (9) And Onan knew that the seed would not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest he should give seed to his brother. (10) And the thing which he did was evil in the sight of Jehovah: and he slew him also. Remember I said that through repentance and faith in Jesus and His sacrifice for us, there is deliverance from these sins and its curses. Now God knows that you did not necessarily choose this life, and some of you think you had this from birth, which is not true. A lot of you already know that you were molested at some point in your life, and you became a sinner. Well, these demons entered in then. Now the Good News of the Gospel is that Jesus Christ bore this sin upon Himself for you, and He is offering you grace to repent and be delivered from it so you will never have these wrong desires and emotions again. He took away the sin nature of homosexuality and any sin of fornication. He wants you to repent and surrender your life to Him. Confess your sins as the Bible says in 1Jo.1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. God will give you a new, clean spirit and a new nature, this free gift of His salvation! Let's pray. Father, we thank You, and we ask You, Lord, to reach out and touch the people out there who are in bondage to sin, homosexual, heterosexual, or any kind of sin, and we ask You, Lord, to reach out and touch them with Your convicting power. Father, we ask You to show them that Your word is true. We ask You to reveal Yourself to them, and to show them the Real True Good News that Jesus has already delivered them from this; He's already borne their sin on the cross, and they don't have to bear it any longer. Father, we ask it in the name of Jesus that You go forth right now and deliver those who are listening to us who believe what's been shared here. Please, Lord, go forth and deliver them now in the name of Jesus. We rebuke these demons from your life in the name of Jesus Christ! O Lord, we thank You for Your mighty power going forth to restore those that You have loved from the foundation of the world. Thank you, Father.  Now, friends, if you agreed and prayed this with us, you need to go and start reading your New Testament and believe what it says and know that the Lord is working in you both to will and do of His good pleasure. It's not by your works, it's His working in you! Now, I want to share a published article on a study done that proves there is freedom from homosexuality.   'Groundbreaking' study shows 'gays' can change  Posted: September 15, 2007 1:00 a.m. Eastern © 2007 WorldNetDaily.com In the first longitudinal, peer-reviewed, scientific study of its kind, researchers have concluded that some homosexuals can change their “orientation” through religiously mediated guidance. Researchers Stanton L. Jones and Mark A. Yarhouse released the results of a three-year study on Thursday during an address at the American Association of Christian Counselors World Conference. Their conclusions contradict the claims of the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association, which contend that such a change in sexual orientation is impossible and attempting to pursue it likely will cause depression, anxiety, or self-destructive behavior. The new study concluded such changes do not cause psychological harm to the patient. Nicholas A. Cummings, former American Psychological Association president, praised the research. “This study has broken new ground in its adherence to objectivity and a scientific precision that can be replicated and expanded, and it opens new horizons for investigation”, he said. Exodus International, the world's largest Christian ministry to homosexuals, said it funded the research because of the absence of any scientific, peer-reviewed research on the topic. The major findings are reported in a book to be released by the evangelical Christian publisher InterVarsity Press, “Ex-Gays? A Longitudinal Study of Religiously Mediated Change in Sexual Orientation.” A homosexual-activist group called Truth Wins Out warned news organizations “to be highly skeptical of a biased 'ex-gay' sham study.” The homosexual group said, “Caution should be taken in prematurely critiquing the study until the full methodology is available. However, based on unconfirmed reports, there is great concern that these notorious anti-gay researchers did little more than professional ex-gay lobbyists and ministers from Exodus International, and ask them if they had 'changed.'” Alan Chambers, president of Exodus International and a former homosexual, said, “Finally, there is now scientific evidence to prove what we as former homosexuals have known all along - that those who struggle with unwanted same-sex attraction can experience freedom from it.” “For years, opponents of choice have said otherwise, and this body of research is critical in advancing the national dialogue on this issue”, he said. Chambers said, “the life-changing process of leaving homosexuality behind” is not easy, but “for thousands of us, the journey has been well worth it, and we are grateful that these study findings give credence to our existence as men and women whose lives have been transformed by Jesus Christ.” Jones, a provost and professor at Wheaton College, an evangelical school in Wheaton, Ill., told CitizenLink magazine in an interview he was prompted to do the study because of the “ever-increasing pessimism expressed in the professional world that sexual orientation could ever be changed.” “This was in contrast to the fact that I occasionally met individuals in Christian circles who claim to have experienced precisely such change”, he said. “When the mental-health field actually began to say that change is impossible - that sexual orientation cannot be changed - it formed the perfect scientific hypothesis to be able to conduct a study.” Jones noted there have been dozens of studies conducted suggesting change is possible for some people, but “the research is not of the highest quality and has been deeply and highly criticized.” After studying the criticisms of those studies, Jones and Yarhouse concluded the proper methodology would need to be both “prospective and longitudinal.” “Prospective means that you catch people before they begin the change process and follow them through the process, while longitudinal means that you're actually following people over time to see if the change is stable”, Jones explained to CitizenLink. “The scientific characteristics of the study are unique, in that no one has ever started early and then followed people over a long period of time like we did.” Jones said they found that, by following the subjects over time, “not everyone is successful, not even a majority is successful, but a very substantial group of people report fairly dramatic change.” “We found that 15 percent of our sample of about 100 claimed to actually have changed from homosexuality to heterosexuality”, he said. “These people experienced significant enough change that they really felt like they had left one sexual orientation to shift into another.” He acknowledged “life is still complicated for these people, and some still have some residuals of their homosexual attractions.” “However, they are people who report being able to function as heterosexuals, they're happy with their marriages, and they feel that their lives have changed dramatically”, he said. The other type of success he found - in almost a quarter of the subjects - was “people who left the homosexual lifestyle and experienced very substantial reductions in homosexual attraction by embracing the Christian discipline of chastity, not acting on their sexual impulses.” “These were people who felt like they were free now to orient their lives not on their sexual, erotic desires and needs, but on their relationship with God and on healthy, nonsexual intimacy with other people”, Jones said. The two groups together, those who converted and those who experienced chastity, made up about 38 percent of the sample. “We feel these changes observed over this substantial period of time provide a clear indication that the opinions of the secular mental-health field that change is impossible are simply wrong”, Jones said. The second area of the research focused on the secular mental-health community's claims that the attempt to change is harmful. Jones and Yarhouse administered a standard psychological inventory that measures psychological distress to subjects at every point along the way. “We found that there was essentially no change in their psychological distress over time”, Jones said. “On that basis, we feel that there is no evidence that the change attempt is harmful, and we found evidence that change is possible for some people.” He added, however, the research does not prove that anybody can change or that no one has ever been harmed from the attempt to change. “It just suggests that the forceful way in which the secular mental-health community is saying change is impossible and harmful is just not well-advised”, he said. Jones pointed out that the American Psychological Association has a blue-ribbon panel right now examining the question of how it should formulate its policies on the subject of attempts to change sexual orientation. Certain members, Jones noted, have already said publicly that change is impossible and harmful. Jones said he hopes “there will be enough of an open mind on the part of the secular mental-health community that they will not continue the movement towards banning these kinds of attempts to change sexual orientation, harassing them out of existence and labeling as unethical any professional person who cooperates with them.” “There is a need to respect the autonomy of individuals who are distressed about what they have experienced sexually and for religious or moral reasons want to try the attempt to change”, Jones told CitizenLink. “Those people first need to be fully informed about just how complex and difficult that process is, and then they should have the right as individuals, as an exercise of personal and religious freedom, to seek support in their attempt to change sexual orientation.”   Printer-friendly version

What if the thing you've been praying for requires the response you've been avoiding? In this powerful message, we dive into John 5 and the story of the man at the Pool of Bethesda—a man who had been stuck for 38 years, waiting for change but bound by excuses, disappointment, and patterns. When Jesus asks him a seemingly simple question—“Do you want to get well?”—everything shifts. In this episode, Christine Caine unpacks the deeper meaning behind Jesus' question and challenges us to confront the areas where we may be choosing comfort over transformation. With biblical truth and personal insight, she reveals how healing often requires participation, obedience, and the courage to let go of the past. If you're tired of feeling stuck, defined by your past, or limited by your circumstances—this message will stir your faith and call you forward. ✨ If you've ever asked questions like: ● Why do I feel stuck even though I want change? ● What's actually holding me back from healing? ● How do I move past my past? ● Why does God ask me to do things that feel impossible? ● Am I unknowingly choosing comfort over breakthrough?

When, in one of Jesus' most well-known parables, the "prodigal son" returns, his older brother feels wronged by the warm reception accorded by their father. The charges he lays against his younger brother may be even stronger than often realized if we perceive echoes of a key scene in Homer's Odyssey. Dr. Alexander Loney is Associate Professor of Classical Languages and the Coordinator of the Classical Languages program at Wheaton College. His publications include The Ethics of Revenge and the Meanings of the Odyssey and (co-editor) The Oxford Handbook of Hesiod. He has contributed several episodes to our podcast. Check out related programs at Wheaton College: B.A. in Classical Languages (Greek, Latin, Hebrew): https://bit.ly/4er2T9Y  M.A. in Biblical Exegesis: https://bit.ly/4d1iSJD 

What happens when a Christian college protects its reputation instead of vulnerable people? In part two of this interview, Kathy Gallagher says Wheaton College had the chance to stop further harm — and didn't.

What were women doing in gathered worship while men were prophesying?Is Paul saying women cannot lead?Is Paul forbidding all speech from women in church?Support this show!! : https://www.bibspeak.com/#donateGrab your free gift: the top 10 most misunderstood Biblical verses: https://info.bibspeak.com/10-verses-clarifiedJoin the newsletter (I only send 2 emails a week): https://www.bibspeak.com/#newsletterShop Dwell L'abel 15% off using the discount code BIBSPEAK15 https://go.dwell-label.com/bibspeakDownload Logos Bible Software for your own personal study: http://logos.com/biblicallyspeakingSign up for Riverside: https://www.riverside.fm/?utm_campaig...Use Manychat to automate a quick DM! It's great for sending links fast.https://manychat.partnerlinks.io/nd14879vojabStan.Store—way better than Linktree! It lets me share links, grow my email list, and host all my podcast stuff in one place.https://join.stan.store/biblicallyspeakingSupport this show!! : https://www.bibspeak.com/#donate Dr. Lynn H. Cohick (PhD, University of Pennsylvania) is Distinguished Professor of New Testament at Houston Christian University. Dr. Cohick currently serves on the Board of Trustees at Biola University and previously served on the board for Langham Partnership. Dr. Cohick served as president of the Institute of Biblical Research (IBR) for six years, and has previously served as provost for two evangelical seminaries. Dr. Cohick taught at Wheaton College for eighteen years, as well as the Nairobi Evangelical Graduate School of Theology (Africa International University) in Kenya.Dr. Lynn is the founding president of the Center for Women in Leadership,a principal with Dr. Sandra Glahn and Dr. George Kalantzison the Visual Museum of Women in Christianity project,and is the host of The Alabaster Jar podcast. Dr. Lynn Cohick's website:https://www.lynncohick.com/Recommended reading from Dr. Lynn Cohick: Women in the World of the Earliest Christians - Lynn H. Cohick https://www.logos.com/product/5988/women-in-the-world-of-the-earliest-christiansChristian Women in the Patristic World - Lynn H. Cohick & Amy Brown Hughes https://bakerpublishinggroup.com/products/9780801039553_christian-women-in-the-patristic-worldEphesians (New Covenant Commentary Series) — Lynn H. Cohick https://books.google.com.ph/books/about/Ephesians.html?id=MfEFBAAAQBAJ&redir_esc=yhttps://open.spotify.com/show/1OBPaQj...

Most of us have never been taught what the Bible actually says about our bodies. Christine Caine is asking the question a lot of people are afraid to ask out loud — does God care what you do with your body? How you eat, how you exercise, how you present yourself? What about tattoos, piercings, or cosmetic surgery? The answer is more nuanced — and more freeing — than you might think. In this full sermon, Christine Caine walks through the biblical truth about the body as the temple of the Holy Spirit, and brings Scripture into conversation with some of the most personal questions we carry — about fitness, beauty standards, stewardship, and identity. She's not here to shame anyone. She's here to bring clarity where the culture has created confusion. Because there's a difference between honoring your body and idolizing it. And most of us are navigating that line without a map. In this episode, you'll discover: What it actually means to steward your body as God's temple — without becoming consumed by it Why your identity is rooted in Christ, not your appearance or your fitness level What the Bible says about tattoos, piercings, cosmetic surgery, and beauty standards How to examine your motives — and make decisions about your body from freedom, not pressure This is for you if you've ever asked: → Does God care how I look or how I take care of my body? → Is it wrong to want to be fit, healthy, or attractive? → What does the Bible actually say about tattoos or cosmetic surgery? → How do I stop swinging between neglect and obsession with my appearance?

Wheaton College concealed the truth about former administrator Dennis Massaro after multiple students accused him of sexual abuse nearly 30 years ago. Massaro's ex-wife, Kathy Gallagher, says the college's silence deepened her family's trauma and enabled further harm to her children.

My conversation with Miranda starts at about 35 minutes Subscribe and Watch Interviews LIVE : On YOUTUBE.com/StandUpWithPete ON SubstackStandUpWithPete Stand Up is a daily podcast. I book,host,edit, post and promote new episodes with brilliant guests every day. This show is Ad free and fully supported by listeners like you! Please subscribe now for as little as 5$ and gain access to a community of over 750 awesome, curious, kind, funny, brilliant, generous souls Miranda Yaver teaches courses on health policy and health politics. She is a political scientist whose research lies at the intersection of health politics, inequality, and administrative burden in U.S. health insurance, with additional projects examining the politics of U.S. health reform as well as ways that patient administrative burden intersects with reproductive health. In addition to her academic appointment, she is co-leader of the Central Pennsylvania Chapter of the Scholars Strategy Network, which connects scholars, journalists, and policymakers to translate academic findings into public facing work that tackles public policy challenges and promotes democracy. She is the 2025 Author-in-Residence in Healthcare Fellow at the Roosevelt Institute. Her research has appeared in the American Journal of Political Science, Journal of Law, Economics and Organization, Scientific Reports, World Medical & Health Policy Journal, and the Journal of Health Politics, Policy, and Law, with additional health politics writings in such outlets as The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Guardian, STATNews, and The Hill. Her forthcoming book, Coverage Denied: How Health Insurers Drive Inequality in the United States, will be published by Cambridge University Press in spring 2026. She was previously an assistant professor of political science at Wheaton College in MA.  Listen rate and review on Apple Podcasts Listen rate and review on Spotify Pete On Instagram Pete on Blue Sky Pete on Threads Pete on Tik Tok Pete on Twitter Pete Personal FB page Stand Up with Pete FB page Gift a Subscription https://www.patreon.com/PeteDominick/gift Send Pete $ Directly on Venmo All things Jon Carroll  Buy Ava's Art    Subscribe to Piano Tuner Paul Paul Wesley on Substack Listen to Barry and Abigail Hummel Podcast Listen to Matty C Podcast and Substack Follow and Support Pete Coe Hire DJ Monzyk to build your website or help you with Marketing  

So… is Jesus a feminist?When people ask, “What does the Bible say about women?” what do you think they are usually really asking?What were women generally expected to do, not do, say, and not say?Support this show!! : https://www.bibspeak.com/#donateGrab your free gift: the top 10 most misunderstood Biblical verses: https://info.bibspeak.com/10-verses-clarifiedJoin the newsletter (I only send 2 emails a week): https://www.bibspeak.com/#newsletterShop Dwell L'abel 15% off using the discount code BIBSPEAK15 https://go.dwell-label.com/bibspeakDownload Logos Bible Software for your own personal study: http://logos.com/biblicallyspeakingSign up for Riverside: https://www.riverside.fm/?utm_campaig...Use Manychat to automate a quick DM! It's great for sending links fast.https://manychat.partnerlinks.io/nd14879vojabStan.Store—way better than Linktree! It lets me share links, grow my email list, and host all my podcast stuff in one place.https://join.stan.store/biblicallyspeakingSupport this show!! : https://www.bibspeak.com/#donate Dr. Lynn H. Cohick (PhD, University of Pennsylvania) is Distinguished Professor of New Testament at Houston Christian University. Dr. Cohick currently serves on the Board of Trustees at Biola University and previously served on the board for Langham Partnership. Dr. Cohick served as president of the Institute of Biblical Research (IBR) for six years, and has previously served as provost for two evangelical seminaries. Dr. Cohick taught at Wheaton College for eighteen years, as well as the Nairobi Evangelical Graduate School of Theology (Africa International University) in Kenya.Dr. Lynn is the founding president of the Center for Women in Leadership,a principal with Dr. Sandra Glahn and Dr. George Kalantzison the Visual Museum of Women in Christianity project,and is the host of The Alabaster Jar podcast. Dr. Lynn Cohick's website:https://www.lynncohick.com/Recommended reading from Dr. Lynn Cohick: Women in the World of the Earliest Christians - Lynn H. Cohick https://www.logos.com/product/5988/women-in-the-world-of-the-earliest-christiansChristian Women in the Patristic World - Lynn H. Cohick & Amy Brown Hughes https://bakerpublishinggroup.com/products/9780801039553_christian-women-in-the-patristic-worldEphesians (New Covenant Commentary Series) — Lynn H. Cohick https://books.google.com.ph/books/about/Ephesians.html?id=MfEFBAAAQBAJ&redir_esc=yhttps://open.spotify.com/show/1OBPaQj...

Anger doesn't always look the way you think it does. Christine Caine has sat with this question for years — and in this message, she gets honest about what's really underneath our anger, and why most of us have never been taught to look there. Sometimes anger is a raised voice. Sometimes it's withdrawal. Sometimes it's the quiet bitterness you've been carrying for years and calling something else. In Jonah 4, God asks Jonah a simple question: "Is it right for you to be angry?" Jonah couldn't answer it. A lot of us can't either. In this full sermon, Christine Caine unpacks the difference between righteous anger and destructive anger, how to identify what's actually driving your emotions, and what it looks like to process anger in a way that leads to healing — not more harm. This one will stay with you. In this episode, you'll discover: ● The difference between righteous anger and the kind that destroys ● How to identify the real root of your emotions (not just the trigger) ● Practical, biblical steps to process anger and walk in genuine freedom ● Why God isn't afraid of your anger — and what He wants to do with it This is for you if you've ever asked: → Is anger always a sin? → Why do I react so strongly → even when I know better? → How do I actually control my anger in the moment? → Can God use my anger for something good?

Check out the Theology in the Raw Patreon Community for bonus episodes, event footage and more! Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt has a Ph.D. from St. Andrews University and is the Franklin S. Dyrness Professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at Wheaton College. She's the author of several books, including her most recent: The Mary We Forgot: What the Apostle to the Apostles Teaches the Church Today.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Send us Fan MailWhat on earth are we to do with the troubling passages we come across in scripture? The Old Testament is especially rife with narratives and sentences that can make God sound cruel and unloving at times. I asked Dr. Sandra Richter, the Robert H. Gundry Chair of Biblical Studies at Westmont College in Santa Barbara, CA to discuss how sincere biblical readers can approach difficult passages with openness, curiosity, and faithfulness. DR. SANDRA RICHTER is the Robert H. Gundry Chair of Biblical Studies at Westmont College in Santa Barbara, California. She holds a Master's Degree from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary and her PhD in Hebrew Bible from Harvard University's Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations Department. She has taught at Asbury Theological Seminary, Wesley Biblical Seminary, and Wheaton College, and is a veteran of many years of leading student groups in field archaeology and historical geography in Israel.Her ambition? To make the real people and places of the Old Testament come alive for her students. She is recognized in the Church for her book, The Epic of Eden: A Christian Entry into the Old Testament (IVP Academic), and the Epic of Eden adult Bible Study series that has grown from that project. In the academy, she is known for her work in Deuteronomy and the Deuteronomistic History and the role of Mt. Ebal in the history of Israelite religion. She is also deeply invested in environmental theology (see Stewards of Eden), often addressing both lay and academic audiences on the topic. Her current research involves a forthcoming commentary on Deuteronomy with Eerdmans, a textbook for the introduction of the Old Testament with Zondervan, and a children's book on environmental theology. She is married to Steven Tsoukalas and has two (perfect) college-aged daughters.Thanks for listening to the Embodied Holiness Podcast.  We invite you to join the community on Facebook and Instagram @embodiedholiness. Embodied Holiness is a ministry of Parkway Heights United Methodist Church in Hattiesburg, MS. If you're in the Hattiesburg area and are looking for a church home, we'd love to meet you and welcome you to the family. You can find out more about Parkway Heights at our website. 

What if success is the very thing that causes you to drift from God?

PRACTICAL Wisdom for Parenting Adult Children with Dr. Gary Chapman (Episode 291)   John 15:5 NIV ““I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.”   *Transcription Below*   Dr. Gary Chapman is an experienced and well-respected family counselor, and a well-known author having written more than forty books. He hosts a nationally syndicated radio program, A Love Language Minute, and a Saturday morning program, Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, that air on more than 400 stations.   The 5 Love Languages, one of Chapman's most popular titles, topped various bestseller charts for years. It has been published in more than 50 languages, sold more than 14 million copies and is currently on the New York Times best-seller list. Dr. Chapman has been directly involved in real-life family counseling for more than 40 years.   Dr. Chapman holds B.A. and M.A. degrees in anthropology from Wheaton College and Wake Forest University, respectively. He received his Ph.D. degree from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and has taken postgraduate work at the University of North Carolina and Duke University.   Dr. Chapman and his wife, Karolyn, have been married for more than 45 years and reside in Winston- Salem, N.C. The Chapmans have two grown children, Shelley and Derek.   5 Love Languages Website   Thank you to Our Sponsor: Midwest Food Bank   Questions and Topics We Cover: Are there any other practical things we can be doing now, while our children are still in the home, that ideally sets us up for a healthy relationship once they launch out of our home?  For parents approaching the new season of parenting young adults, what are the best practices for navigating this transition? If we do find ourselves in a season where our adult child and maybe his/her family is living with us, what guidelines do you suggest to honor both parties?   Previous Episodes of the Savvy Sauce with Dr. Gary Chapman: 85 Five Love Languages with Dr. Gary Chapman 182 Things I Wish I'd Known Before My Child Became a Teenager with Dr. Gary Chapman 191 Friendships Heal Racial Divides with Dr. Clarence Shuler and Dr. Gary Chapman 220 Cultivating Healthy Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman   Related Articles: Family Discipleship Tools My 10 Favorite Parenting Books How Can I Enjoy My Kids More?   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV) Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*‍ ‍   Music: (0:00 - 0:11)   Laura Dugger: (0:12 - 2:04) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger. I'm so glad you're here.   Thank you to an anonymous donor to Midwest Food Bank, who paid the sponsorship fee in hopes of spreading awareness. Learn more about this amazing nonprofit organization at MidwestFoodBank.org.   Dr. Gary Chapman is my amazing returning guest. I'm going to link to his other episodes on The Savvy Sauce, where we've covered a variety of topics, from the five love languages in marriage or in families, parenting teenagers, and just overall creating a loving home and family environment.   But today, we're going to actually focus on a later stage of life, parenting adult children. Whenever I get a chance to talk with Dr. Gary Chapman, he just oozes wisdom on every topic that we've covered, and I know you're going to feel the same way after concluding the message today. I've just noticed this theme that anytime I talk to somebody who's a few seasons ahead of me, they consistently said the same thing, that their hardest stage of parenting was parenting adult children.   And that shocked me, so I wanted to seek out the wisdom of somebody who's gone before us and bring in this expert who can give us wise counsel so that all of us can delight in parenting well and enjoying all of the seasons. Dr. Gary Chapman is going to do exactly that today.   Here's our chat. Welcome back to The Savvy Sauce, Dr. Chapman.   Dr. Gary Chapman: (2:04 - 2:07) Well, thank you. I'm delighted to be with you again.   Laura Dugger: (2:07 - 2:40) Well, our main topic for today is going to be about parenting adult children, especially after completing your amazing resource. But I think it'd first be helpful to back up a little bit and just have you share how we can be proactive now while our children are still in the home. If we're hoping to have wonderful relationships when we launch our children, when they're grown adults.   So, can you just start off by sharing the dangers of both under-parenting and over-parenting?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (2:41 - 7:35) Well, I think, first of all, as parents, we have to keep in mind we have 18 years. Because in our culture at 18, they're typically going to college, get a job or join the military. So, we have to be thinking independence.   That is doing everything we can to help them to be able to take care of themselves. And when we're not around. So, first of all, I think it means that we need to make sure we are expressing love to them in a way that's meaningful to them.   That our children feel loved. I've often said to parents, the question is not, do you love your children? The question is, do your children feel loved?   And that's where the five love languages of children and the five-love language of teenagers has helped so many parents realize what makes one child feel loved doesn't make another child feel loved. So, you have to discover their love language and on a regular basis be speaking that love language to them. I think another factor is that I would encourage parents, especially if they're in the teenage years or 10 and up, have maybe once a month have breakfast with one child.   Take them out to breakfast, just one child, so that you can talk about whatever they want to talk about. And you can talk about whatever you want to talk about. But if they know that that's a part of life and that's where they can ask you questions when nobody's around, and you can have conversations with them.   I just found that with my own kids. That was great. And they say to me, they look back on that as a very positive experience, is having that individual time with me.   Of course, we only had two children. Now, if you have five children, and I only did it once a month, but five once a month would be every week, I guess. But it's just an idea.   But I think if they feel loved, and they feel like that we're a safe place where they can talk about and ask questions about things, and we can talk openly, that's a big part of getting them ready. The other thing that I've suggested to couples is, what if you make a list? And if your children are 10 or up, let them help you make a list of all the things they would like to know how to do by the time they're 18.   And some of them may say, well, I'd like to learn how to cook, or I'd like to learn how to boil eggs. Or I might like to learn how to take a tire off of my car, put it back on, put the spare on. Amazing, you know, what they might want to do.   And that may vary with each child. But you ought to think in terms of what would you like for them to be able to do. And then you want to be working on those things while they're still with you.   If you want them to be able to make up their own bed, you can start that at five years old. You know, by the time they get to be 18, they got it down. If you don't want them to know how to make up a bed, then they're going to go to college and never make up a bed. And they're going to get married and never make up a bed.   And if they marry somebody that thinks a bed ought to be made up, then they got a conflict. So, it can be little things like that.   But I do think that for most parents, they would hope that the children will learn a little bit about cooking. You know, because we have to eat. And it's an advantage.   Anybody that gets married is happy if they marry somebody that knows how to cook. Whether it's the husband or the wife. So, I think that's a huge issue.   But keeping the flow of communication open with the children so that they feel like they're safe with you. That they can communicate with you. That is huge.   And I'll be very honest; there are a lot of parents that don't do that. They're so involved in their work and in other activities that they don't really talk with their kids very much. You know, they might watch a ball game together or something, but they don't really talk about life.   And consequently, when the kids go off and they don't feel a real attachment to you, they're far more out there on their own now. And they're likely going to have more problems than if they had a close connection with you. Because if they have a close connection, even in college, they'll ask you questions.   They'll communicate with you. And communication is the lifeblood of relationship. So, anything you can do to foster that. Wonderful.   Laura Dugger: (7:37 - 8:03) So great. I love those practical tips for what we can be doing now. And I'm just curious, with all of your travels and speaking around the world, and throughout the decades, just seeing changes, do you have any caution for parents of what to avoid or even what to focus on currently to set them up well for their relationship in the future with their adult child?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (8:04 - 10:42) I think one is talking to them about what they think they might like to do when they grow up. Having those kinds of conversations. And what that might look like.   Because our daughter, for example, when she was eight years old, said to us, “When I grow up, I'm going to be a doctor.” And we said, “Well, honey, if that's what God wants, then that would be fine.” But in high school, she took four years of Latin.   Three years of chemistry in high school. She was serious. And so, if they say they want to be something, then you have to help them think about what kind of requirements would that be to do what you're thinking about doing.   And another thing would be to, in high school, let them have conversations with somebody that you might know in your church or your circle that does that. If they think they'd like to be a businessperson, for example, or sell cars, or run a business, or try to have a conversation. And most adults who are in a business or who are doing anything, they'd be happy to talk to a teenager that thinks they'd like to do this.   And that person can give them great advice in terms of what you might be doing now in high school and what you might do if you go to college and all that sort of thing. So, I think because vocation is a huge part of life. And I think the other thing, of course, is we need to be sharing our faith.   If we're Christians, we need to be sharing our faith with them. And to me, that means things like the very beginning, as early as you can start it, having a devotional time for the whole family every night. And what my wife and I did when they're just all the way along, one of us would go to the bed with them when we put them to bed and get on our knees beside the bed and pray with them.   And if they get older, then they start praying. But when they see when we teach them our faith, and of course, having them involved in a church and all that sort of thing is so very helpful to kids. And in the teenage years, for them to have a place to go and do things with other Christian kids.   Again, you know, the church can't raise kids. That's our responsibility. But the church can be a real source of help with our children, where they can interface and have other people that are teaching them things about God and about life.   So, all of that, I think, is important.   Laura Dugger: (10:43 - 11:22) I love that. I'm hearing themes of open communication both ways, where we're sharing and imparting and discipling, but they're also expressing their wants or needs or desires. And I think also a theme of purpose, instilling purpose in them, which gives a great vision for long term.   But now let's speak to parents who are approaching this new season of maybe their teenager turning 18 or moving out. And now the parents are finding themselves transitioning to parenting young adults. So, what are the best practices for navigating this transitional season?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (11:23 - 15:48) Well, that's why I wrote this book. Because a lot of parents' struggle. And some over parent, you know, after they moved out, they over parent.   They want to keep talking with them every single day and tell them what they ought to be doing and all that kind of stuff. And the child feels like, you know, I can do some things on my own, you know. And then some are under parent.   They just, if they go to college, they go to college. They might talk to them once a week or something, you know. So, I think we have to just think in terms of what feels good for the child, you know.   Because you to call them when you don't know their schedule, you probably have a hard time. Far better to ask them, how would you like to talk for us to talk? And when would be a good time in your schedule that you could call us, you know.   So, I think working out some things about how much contact we're going to have because they want a sense of freedom. And they should have. And we've been training them for independence.   So, but we also want to keep in contact with them. We want to, you know, have some ongoing time with them. And depending on now many times today, they're living at home while they go to college.   So, you have an extended opportunity. To have an influence on their lives. But that's where you have to talk about, now what's our pattern going to be?   Because you're going off to college, but you're going to be coming home every night to be here. And we're happy about that, you know. If that's what you want to do.   Obviously it's saving money for the parents because they don't have to pay for a dorm room. So, but we talk about, you know, can we agree on kind of a bedtime? Because if you're out at one o'clock, you know, I have a hard time sleeping.   Because you just, you know, I think, wonder what's happened to them, you know. So, could we have a kind of a set time that you shoot to be home? And if you realize there's something turned up, you would call me.   You call one of us and say, you know, I know I normally get home at whatever time, but right now this is what's happened. So, I need to do this and all. Okay, honey, okay.   That's fine. You don't want to over control them. But if you're going to be home, you have to think about yourself as well as them.   Because you've got a life to live. Your life has to go on while they're developing their new lifestyle. So, I think conversations again, it's really important at that stage of life.   And keeping in contact but not over controlling them. And I'd say make suggestions rather than like giving your advice. You know, just to say, you know, you ought to do this.   Or maybe now they're looking for a job, you know. And you say, well, you ought to get that, you ought to get that resume sent in today if you want to get a job. And now you're putting pressure on them, you know.   But you could say just as easily, you know, one suggestion that I'd suggest that you think about is maybe getting in your application as soon as possible. Because probably the sooner you get it in, the more likely you might, you know, be able to get the job. So rather than telling them what they need to do, make suggestions rather than demands.   Because again, we want to foster independence. We don't want to control their lives. We want them to be free to make decisions.   But if they ask advice, it's fine. Give them advice if they ask advice. If they don't, it's okay to give them a suggestion.   But give it as a suggestion, not as something, well, you ought to do this, you know. So, we don't want to over-control them. Otherwise, we're really going to push them away.   No young person wants to be over-controlled by their parents. And yet, they need our input. And if we have a positive relationship, they'll probably ask us for our input, you know. It's a good relationship.   Laura Dugger: (15:50 - 17:50) I think that really requires humility on both sides. And that's great and worthwhile to cultivate that in any phase of life. ‍ ‍   And now a brief message from our sponsor.   Midwest Food Bank exists to provide industry-leading food relief to those in need while feeding them spiritually. They are a food charity with a desire to demonstrate God's love by providing help to those in need. Unlike other parts of the world where there's not enough food, in America, the resources actually do exist.   That's why food pantries and food banks like Midwest Food Bank are so important. The goods that they deliver to their agency partners help to supplement the food supply for families and individuals across our country, aiding those whose resources are beyond stretched. Midwest Food Bank also supports people globally through their locations in Haiti and East Africa which are some of the areas hardest hit by hunger arising from poverty.   This ministry reaches millions of people every year and thanks to the Lord's provision, 99% of every donation goes directly toward providing food to people in need. The remaining 1% of income is used for fundraising, costs of leadership, oversight, and other administrative expenses. Donations, volunteers, and prayers are always appreciated for Midwest Food Bank.   To learn more, visit MidwestFoodBank.org or listen to episode 83 of The Savvy Sauce where the founder, David Kieser, shares miracles of God that he's witnessed through this nonprofit organization. I hope you check them out today.   Also, Dr. Chapman, have you noticed any universal challenges or frustrations from both sides, from adult children and the parents who have raised them just in that phase of life, maybe things that we can be prepared for?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (17:50 - 23:36) Yeah. Well, I think one thing is that there are a lot of young adults who feel like their parents are trying to control their lives and that's not a positive thing. I think there are a lot of parents that are very disturbed over the decisions their young adult children are making.   And this is hard. I can understand that. It's hard.   When you see them, for example, telling you, I've decided not to go to church this semester or I've decided, I don't think I want to go to church anymore. Well, you come down hard on them and say, now, da-da-da, da-da-da, da-da-da. You're just pushing them away.   Far better to ask questions. That's interesting, honey. What leads you to say that?   And then just keep asking questions. Keep asking questions. And then I think we have to do what God does.   We have to give them freedom. And we can honestly say, after we've listened to them and they tell us why, we can say, well, you know, it's your decision, honey. I mean, you're an adult now and it's your decision.   You know that. I'm not real happy about it, but it's your life. And, you know, again, whatever kind of relationship you've had with them spiritually and how you shared with them spiritually is going to have an impact here.   But I think parents have a hard time when their children make decisions that hurt them. You know whether it's moral decisions or whether it's spiritual decisions or whatever the decision. But what we don't want to do is cut them off.   Because if we say, “Well, if that's the lifestyle you're going to live, I don't want you in my house anymore.” And there are parents that have said those kinds of things. Now you've lost all opportunity to have a positive influence on them. And it was your choice.   Now, if they break off from you, and this happens a lot too, where a parent, a child is deciding a lifestyle that they know their parents don't like. And the parents have come down on them really hard.   And every time they get together, they're preaching them a sermon. And the adult child says, well, I'm just not going to have contact with you. Every time I come home, you're on my case.   I'm not going to answer your phone. And I'm not going to answer your text. Well, again, we can't keep them from doing that.   But what we want to do is to try to keep the relationship open and not demanding things of them so that they won't cut us off. Because if they cut us off or we cut them off, we've lost opportunity to have an impact on their lives.   So even if we disagree with them, and as I said, “God gives his children freedom. If you want to disobey God, you can. You'll suffer the consequences, but you can.” And we have to give them the same freedom.   And we can say things like, honey, it hurts me that you're choosing to do that. But I want you to know that I love you. And I will love you no matter what.   And I will pray for you. I love you. And if you ever want to talk further about this, I'd be happy to talk further with you.   But I love you, even though I disagree, obviously, with what you're choosing. But that kind of approach is far healthier. And chances are, listen, the prodigal son's father didn't go out there trying to bring him back.   He waited till God brought his son to the pig pen. And if they're making poor decisions, they're going to end up in the pig pen. But now, they've got a picture in their mind of a parent who loved them.   And they do what the prodigal son did. I'd be better off working on the farm at home than out here in the pig pen. And they come home.   And, you know, they come home often with regret. And then we receive them back. And now we're reunited.   Now we've got another chance here. But I think as parents, you know, we're so concerned. And I understand that.   And we should be concerned. And we want them to make wise decisions and make lifestyle choices that we know are healthy and we know are right. And it breaks our heart when they're not.   But because out of our pain, we often make poor decisions ourselves. You know, we retreat them in a way that's negative and condemning and demanding. And so, they walk away.   Far better to express the truth about how you feel. They already know they're hurting you. But you express it to them.   But you let them know I love you and I will always love you no matter what you do. Now you've kept the door open.   Laura Dugger: (23:38 - 24:01) And I think the fruit of the spirit that really stands out in that response is gentleness and that that would go a long way. But also, if we are at that phase of parenting adult children, a lot of times around that time comes grandparenting as well. So, do you have any wise counsel for grandparents?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (24:02 - 27:21) Yeah, I would say. And again, a lot depends on how close you are physically. If you live in North Carolina where I live and your grandkids live in Portland, Oregon, that's one thing, you know.   But if you live in the same town as a grandparent, you might be keeping them after school when they get out of school. You know, the kids, you were keeping them. Now they're, you know, of course, they grow up.   But I think grandparents can play a key role in the lives of children. And the earlier it starts, the better. And even if they do live far away, you can still have contact.   Now we can do FaceTime. We can see them. They can see us.   You know, you can do that when they're four years old or three years old. So, I think having that kind of contact if they live away from you is really, really good. And you can even play games, you know, online with them at different stages and all.   So, the more you do when they're little to build a bond between them, the more likely they are when they get older to keep in contact with you. For example, my granddaughter, who is 25 now, she calls her grandmother, my wife, she calls her every Sunday afternoon at three o'clock. And if she, if something in her work schedule or whatever doesn't allow it, she'll send her a text and say, Grandma, I can't call you at three today, but I'm going to call you at five because of da-da-da-da-da.   That's absolutely wonderful, you know. And so, I think we build that relationship when they're young and chances are as grandparents, then we will have a positive contact with them as they grow up in the future. And again, we're not, we have to remember as grandparents, two things.   Number one, I'm not the parent. The parents are the ones who set the rules. But I am a grandparent.   And so, when they're at my house, I'm not going to violate the parent's rules. Whatever the rules are of the parents, that's okay. But we're going to do some things, you know, when we're together that maybe your parents don't do with you.   Maybe they don't take walks. Maybe they don't take you to the park. Again, depending on the age, you know.   But if you live close as they grow up, you try to stay involved in their activities. If they're into sports or if they're in a play at school, as grandparents, you try to go to those things, you know, which communicates to them, man, they care about me. So, the more you can be involved in their lives when they're young, the better the chances are that you will have a positive relationship with them when they get to be adults.   And again, I think grandparents can have a tremendous impact on their grandchildren.   Laura Dugger: (27:22 - 28:34) I completely agree and it's fascinating sometimes to see the same lesson that we're trying to teach as parents. Sometimes it just takes one grandparent to reiterate that or to share it and it clicks for our kids. So, there is a supernatural, even anointing, it seems, on that relationship.   Do you love The Savvy Sauce? Do you gain anything when you listen? Did you know that the two ways we earn money to keep this podcast live is through generous contributions from listeners?   And from our paying sponsors? That means we can promote your business and you're still supporting The Savvy Sauce. It's a win-win.   Please email us today at info at the SavvySauce.com to inquire about pricing for sponsoring each episode. Thank you for your consideration.   Is there also any research that you've come across for factors that set adult children up well to be healthy in their relationships and independent from relying on their parents and just well-adjusted overall?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (28:35 - 32:49) You know, I don't know specific research percentages and that sort of thing, but I do know that there's an awful lot of young adults today that are not mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally healthy. And there's a lot of reasons for that because many young adults have grown up in homes where their parents divorced and that's had a tremendous impact on them. And loneliness is a pandemic on college campuses today all over the country where the students feel isolated.   They don't have not made friends at the university and they don't know how to have relationships. Many times, they've been on the cell phone and online. Their whole life is connected to the screen and they don't know, they don't have social skills.   They don't know how to have conversations. So, which is really sad. And sometimes grandparents can step in when parents maybe, you know, are for whatever reason not stepping in.   Sometimes, of course, one of the parents has died. Sometimes one of the parents has problems that limit what they can do. And grandparents can step in and be an adult figure who relates to this young adult and has an open door at their house.   You can always come to grandma's, you know, that kind of thing. So, it's a troubled, it's a troubled world for young adults today. And many times, they have a hard time getting a job and they move back home with their parents.   And, and because many of them can't afford an apartment. So, if they get a job, you know, and they can come back home and live with the parents, that's going to help them and make it possible for them to survive. And so, as parents, even though, you know, we all think of a time that we're going to have an empty nest, when they come back, see it as another opportunity just to have a positive impact on them.   But I would suggest that when they move back in that situation, you have conversations from the very beginning on how can we organize this now because you're an adult now. It's not like you're a child. But how can we organize it so that it's good for everybody and so that, you know, you feel good about it, we feel good about it.   Now, we're not going to charge you rent because we know that's, you know, but you are going to be back in the family now. So, let's think in terms of like, you know, what kind of chores could you do that would be helpful to us? And what can we do that would be helpful to you?   And let's talk about schedules and, you know, just talk about whatever you can think that you'd like to discuss so that each of you have an idea of how this is going to work rather than nobody talking about it, but the parents have ideas of what it ought to be like, but the adult child has ideas of what it ought to be like and they're different. And so, you end up in conflict with each other. Far better to have open conversations to start with .   And we can change it if we need to. We can talk about it again in two months and see if it's working or not working. But this is also teaching them a skill on how to relate to people because all of life they're going to be relating to people.   So, that can be a positive thing and not a negative thing. But, again, sometimes this becomes real contentious because the parents pictured one thing, the young adult pictures another thing, and it becomes an adversarial kind of situation.   Laura Dugger: (32:51 - 33:43) Well, and you even address that in your book. You share some guidelines for both parties. And so, I'll list these off.   Feel free to elaborate if there are any that you want to say more about. But you recommend clarifying those expectations and maintaining open communication, balancing freedom and responsibility, honoring your moral values I think you give, for instance, if you're a Christian and your adult child does not want to go to church or have their children go to church, how to navigate that, considering your own physical and mental health, setting time limits and goals, being pleasant and firm, and then you also talk about how to deal with anger. So, is there anything you'd want to elaborate on that?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (33:43 - 37:16) I think all of those things are important. You know, just remember now, as parents, it is your house and your moral values, you know, you want to have them respect that. For example, if you do not do alcohol at all, you need to say to them, now honey, you know that we don't drink alcohol if you think they do.   So, don't bring alcohol in the home. Okay? Can we just agree on that?   If you drink a beer, that's you, somewhere else, but don't do it here because we just don't like that. You know, that's fine. It's your house.   They're adults. So, and they'll respect that. They'll respect that.   So, I think, you know, and again, you just say, we're not going to make you go to church because you're an adult. That's your decision. If you would like to go to church, you know, there is a young adult group at our church that I think you might fit into and you might feel good about.   You know, you can try it out and see what you think. Or if you have a church that doesn't offer that, you can say, you know, I don't think our church has a young adult group, but there is a church in town that I understand has a really good young adult group. So, you might want to visit that church and kind of plug into that and see what you think.   You know, so we're not, again, demanding that they, you know, go to our church with us every Sunday, but we are trying to help them and give them some possibilities, you know, what they might do. So, all those things are really important. And I think setting some limits and goals also to say, how long do you think it might be before, I know you want to, I know you want to be independent.   Someday you may want to get married. I don't know, but how long do you think it might take before you would, you know, be able to, you know, find your own place or whatever? It doesn't matter to us, but I'm just thinking out loud with you so we can all kind of have some goals and things that we can have in the back of our minds.   We can change them later if we want to but talking to those kinds of things like that is helpful because both of you then have a framework in which to, you know, and maybe they're coming back. Maybe they drop out of college and they're back home because they don't have a job. They don't have anywhere to go.   And so to talk about, you know, maybe what could be done while you are here that might prepare you for a job, you know, and let them share the kind of job they might have an interest in and then see if there's a local technical school that's teaching, you know, people how to do that particular thing, you know, find out about it and say, well, you know, this course is available and we would be willing to pay for it if you'd be interested in doing that because if you have an interest, I understand it's a really good school and you're far more likely to get a job if you've had the training that they give over there, you know. So it may just be a year-long thing for, you know, training just one year, but helping them if they're struggling socially or relationally, mentally, then try to find whatever helps available in the community that they might plug into that could help them move toward being independent.   Laura Dugger: (37:16 - 37:38) I love that. Reaching maturity, independence, and then also you really did focus on the parents, the importance of them taking care of themselves and their marital relationship because that will change the dynamic if an adult child moves back in or if they move back in with their kids.   Dr. Gary Chapman: (37:38 - 38:59) Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's very different and I think as the parents, we don't want to spend time with each other silent, I mean, personally arguing with each other, you know, I just don't think we ought to do this now, you know.   Listen, listen, we're a team and this is our child. So, let's talk about what we're going to do. If we don't do it, what are we going to do?   We're going to let them live on the street. We're going to send them to the rescue mission. What are our options, you know, and what is the Christian thing to do?   So yeah, we likely will have different ideas. Husbands and wives will have different ideas of what we ought to do in those kinds of situations, but let's respect each other's ideas. Let's listen and try to see the world through their eyes and say, okay, I can see what you're saying.   I can see how that makes sense. And then, okay, how can we solve the problem? Because we want to be a team.   We want to keep our marriage growing. We don't want this to be a divisive thing in our marriage because we hope down the road they're going to be on their own, but we want our marriage to be good now and then, you know.   Laura Dugger: (39:00 - 39:12) So, to sum up this time together, do you have any additional words of encouragement or helpful do's and don'ts as we navigate this new part of parenting?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (39:14 - 42:07) I think one thing I would say to Christian parents is pray. The Bible says if you lack wisdom, ask God for wisdom. And all of us need wisdom.   And so, you just say, God, you know the situation, you know where we are, and we need your wisdom. You know we have our thoughts and our ideas, but what we really want to do is what is best in this situation for our child and for us. And we know that you can give us wisdom.   And the second thing I would say is read a book such as the one we're discussing. Because we're dealing with many common things in this. Read a book together about it.   And then, also talk to other parents maybe in your church, who have adult children who are moving home or whatever the situation is. And see how they're handling it. Because, you know, they may have found some things and discovered some things that would be very helpful to you.   Sometimes parents want to hide what's going on, especially if their child is making decisions and living a lifestyle that they don't want them to be living. They don't want to tell their friends about it. Because they think it puts them down as parents, that we failed, you know.   And I like to say to those parents, because many times here's what the parents say to me when their child is making a lifestyle decision that's not biblical. They'll say, Dr. Chapman, what did we do wrong? And I say, well, ask God if you did anything wrong.   God will tell you. And if you did, you can apologize. You can confess it to God.   You can apologize to your adult child. But let me remind you of this. God's first two children went wrong, and they had a perfect father.   So don't blame yourself for the decisions your adult children are making. Yes, none of us are perfect. And maybe you made some real bad decisions.   Then apologize to your adult child. But don't just assume that you are responsible for what they're doing. God makes his children free.   And as you know, a lot of God's children make poor decisions. God still loves them. And if they repent, God will forgive them.   But they suffer the consequences. Anytime we violate God's plans, we have to suffer. There are consequences.   So, yeah, those are just some of the things I would say to parents. But I do think that they'll find this book to be very helpful. It's very practical.   And I think they'll find it to be very helpful.   Laura Dugger: (42:08 - 42:24) Your teaching is always full of wisdom, full of practicality. And this isn't the only topic that you've written about or spoken about. And so where would you like to direct us after this chat so that we can learn more from all of your teaching?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (42:25 - 42:59) I would say go to the website 5lovelanguages.com. The number 5 and lovelanguages.com. And there you will find resources, all my books and so forth. You can receive a weekly email from me if you like.   And you can take a quiz on the love languages and other things. Just a lot of help at that website. My publisher actually runs that website for me.   But it's very, very helpful. So, you know, that's where I would encourage them to go.   Laura Dugger: (43:00 - 43:19) Wonderful. We'll add that link in the show notes for today's episode. And Dr. Chapman, you've been a repeat guest. So, you're familiar that we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge. And so, as my final question for you today, what is your savvy sauce?   Dr. Gary Chapman: (43:22 - 44:41) I would say recognize the truth of what Jesus said as recorded in Matthew chapter 15, and verse 5. I think I'm right about that. Where he said, “I'm the vine. You're the branches. You stay connected to me. You bear fruit. Without me, you can do nothing.”   So just recognize your dependence on God. We may know a lot about a few things, but there's a whole bunch of stuff we don't know much about.   So just realize if you stay connected to God, have a daily quiet time with God in which you sit down and read a chapter in the Bible and ask God to speak to you. Or read a devotional book every morning with Scripture. You stay connected closely to God; you're going to bear fruit.   And tell God, without you, Lord, I can't do anything worthwhile. We won't. We can't do anything.‍ ‍   He gives us breath. We could be gone tomorrow. I can't do it without you.   I need your help. I need your wisdom. So, you stay connected closely to God.   You're going to not only survive, you're going to thrive.   Laura Dugger: (44:42 - 45:13) Well said. And it's great to witness someone who has been abiding in Christ and we're getting to enjoy that sweet fruit from the overflow of even your lifestyle and your guidance and your wisdom, Dr. Chapman. So, it's always such a joy to get to talk to you.   And I think my heart rate slows down every time we're having a conversation. You're so calm and peaceful. And I just really am grateful for you and appreciate you.   So, thank you for being my guest.   Dr. Gary Chapman: (45:14 - 45:25) Well, thank you. I always enjoy chatting with you. And thanks for what you're doing.   Because, you know, we take whatever we've got and try to help other people. And you're doing that. So, keep up the good work.   Laura Dugger: (45:25 - 48:42) Thank you. One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term gospel before?   It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news.   Every single one of us were born sinners. But Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own.   So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved. We need a Savior. But God loved us so much He made a way for His only Son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute.   This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with Him. That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin.   This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10.9 says that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. So would you pray with me now? Heavenly Father, thank You for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today, right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to You.   Will You clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare You as Lord of their life? We trust You to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray.   Amen. If you prayed that prayer you are declaring Him for me so me for Him. You get the opportunity to live your life for Him.   And at this podcast, we're called the Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So you ready to get started?   First, tell someone. Say it out loud. Get a Bible.   The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it. You can start by reading the Book of John.   Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ.   We also have show notes included where you can read Scripture that describes this process. And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15 10 says, In the same way I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.   The heavens are praising with you for your decision today. And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved, and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

There's still time to register for Exiles Minneapolis! April 30-May 2, 2026. Join my Patreon community for bonus episodes, Zoom chats, and more! Dr. Lynn Cohick is New Testament Professor at Houston Christian University and has written numerous books, include Christian Women in the Patristic World, which she co-authored with my other guest today. Dr. Amy Brown Hughes received her Ph.D. in historical theology with an emphasis in early Christianity from Wheaton College and is an associate professor of theology at Gordon College. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode, we sit down with Jared Smith –an ex-Christian, former Wheaton College student, and atheist YouTuber –to explore what happens when someone deeply rooted in evangelical Christianity takes a serious look at Mormonism.Jared shares his journey from devoted believer to skeptic, including his time at Wheaton College (often called the “Harvard of Christian institutions”), where he studied everything from apologetics to exorcism –and even Christian heavy metal.We dive into his firsthand experiences auditing religions, attending Mormon services, reading the Book of Mormon, and engaging with LDS culture from an outsider's perspective. Along the way, we explore what it's like to WANT your religion to be true –and still lose it, the role of Jesus in Mormonism vs. traditional Christianity, those who take religion most seriously are the ones who seem to be leaving, the emotional and intellectual toll of deconstruction, what he thought when he read the Book of Mormon, and the intersection of belief, identity, and online content creation.We also discuss broader topics like Jehovah's Witnesses and blood doctrine, charismatic Christianity (including exorcism and speaking in tongues), and the culture of apologetics across faith traditions.Jared offers a thoughtful, non-combative perspective as someone more interested in understanding belief than attacking it –making this conversation a nuanced look at faith, doubt and everything in between.Check out Jared's YouTube channel “Heliocentric”: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS5YtyTzVJo_N-vjub8te3gVideos to watch in preparation for our next episode with Jared Smith:“This Mormon church sucked” - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_iAA_Zp-GQHis episode with Nemo the Mormon - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQSo0aQQkbgJacob Hansen's response to Jared - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOFghorZj9s___________________YouTubeAt Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  Our overall mission is to: 1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

In this sixth episode of Season 5, I interview Mr. Chris Griswold. An alum of Wheaton College and Princeton Theological Seminary, he was formerly a senior advisor to then Senator Marco Rubio, and is currently the Policy Director for American Compass—a leading center-right public policy think-tank. Recently, he contributed to the book, The New Conservatives (2025), an anthology edited […]

In this sixth episode of Season 5, I interview Mr. Chris Griswold. An alum of Wheaton College and Princeton Theological Seminary, he was formerly a senior advisor to then Senator Marco Rubio, and is currently the Policy Director for American Compass—a leading center-right public policy think-tank. Recently, he contributed to the book, The New Conservatives (2025), an anthology edited by his colleague, Oren Cass, that re-articulates a conservative economic vision for the country. Drawing on it, we discuss the crisis of America's political economy, from questions surrounding current AI, automation, and the end of free trade; political instability and populism; how economic policy can best serve American workers and families; and what makes us hopeful for the country's future during its 250th anniversary. Hosted by Ryan Shinkel, Madison's Notes is the podcast of Princeton University's James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. The transcript for this interview is available on our new Substack page, “Madison's Footnotes.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

In this sixth episode of Season 5, I interview Mr. Chris Griswold. An alum of Wheaton College and Princeton Theological Seminary, he was formerly a senior advisor to then Senator Marco Rubio, and is currently the Policy Director for American Compass—a leading center-right public policy think-tank. Recently, he contributed to the book, The New Conservatives (2025), an anthology edited by his colleague, Oren Cass, that re-articulates a conservative economic vision for the country. Drawing on it, we discuss the crisis of America's political economy, from questions surrounding current AI, automation, and the end of free trade; political instability and populism; how economic policy can best serve American workers and families; and what makes us hopeful for the country's future during its 250th anniversary. Hosted by Ryan Shinkel, Madison's Notes is the podcast of Princeton University's James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. The transcript for this interview is available on our new Substack page, “Madison's Footnotes.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/political-science

In this sixth episode of Season 5, I interview Mr. Chris Griswold. An alum of Wheaton College and Princeton Theological Seminary, he was formerly a senior advisor to then Senator Marco Rubio, and is currently the Policy Director for American Compass—a leading center-right public policy think-tank. Recently, he contributed to the book, The New Conservatives (2025), an anthology edited by his colleague, Oren Cass, that re-articulates a conservative economic vision for the country. Drawing on it, we discuss the crisis of America's political economy, from questions surrounding current AI, automation, and the end of free trade; political instability and populism; how economic policy can best serve American workers and families; and what makes us hopeful for the country's future during its 250th anniversary. Hosted by Ryan Shinkel, Madison's Notes is the podcast of Princeton University's James Madison Program in American Ideals and Institutions. The transcript for this interview is available on our new Substack page, “Madison's Footnotes.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/intellectual-history

Don't be put off by all of Jennifer McNutt's impressive credentials. Besides being a brilliant scholar and theologian, Jennifer is engaging, delightful, and deeply inspiring. You will love hearing her story and her passion for Jesus.Featured Resource:The Mary We Forgot: What the Apostle to the Apostles Can Teach the Church Todayby Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt (Brazos, 2024)2025 ECPA Book of the Year FinalistAbout Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt:Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt holds the Dyrness Chair of Biblical and Theological Studies and serves as Professor of Theology and History of Christianity at Wheaton College's Litfin Divinity School. She is an award-winning professor, author, and internationally recognized speaker on theology, church history, and Scripture.Her book, The Mary We Forgot, invites the church to reconsider the biblical witness of Mary Magdalene and what her life and testimony reveal about faithfulness to Jesus. Jennifer and her husband, Rev. Dr. David McNutt, serve in the Presbyterian church and co-founded McNuttshell Ministries.

What if the very thing holding you back from your future is what you refuse to let go of? Following Jesus isn't comfortable, convenient, or predictable—but it is always worth it. In a culture that celebrates options, security, and self-promotion, God calls us to something radically different: surrender, faithfulness, and full devotion. In this episode, Christine Caine unpacks 1 Kings 19:1–21 and the powerful moment when Elisha burns his ploughs to follow God's call. Through this message, you'll discover why calling is not something you chase—but something you prepare for through faithfulness right where you are. This episode will challenge you to let go of what's familiar so you can step into what God has prepared, reminding you that a life fully surrendered to Jesus is always worth the cost. ✨If you ever asked questions like… ● Why does following Jesus feel so costly? ● How do I know when it's time to let something go? ● Do I have to have everything figured out before I obey God? Then this is for you.

Don't be put off by all of Jennifer McNutt's impressive credentials. Besides being a brilliant scholar and theologian, Jennifer is engaging, delightful, and deeply inspiring. You will love hearing her story and her passion for Jesus.Featured Resource:The Mary We Forgot: What the Apostle to the Apostles Can Teach the Church Todayby Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt (Brazos, 2024)2025 ECPA Book of the Year FinalistAbout Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt:Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt holds the Dyrness Chair of Biblical and Theological Studies and serves as Professor of Theology and History of Christianity at Wheaton College's Litfin Divinity School. She is an award-winning professor, author, and internationally recognized speaker on theology, church history, and Scripture.Her book, The Mary We Forgot, invites the church to reconsider the biblical witness of Mary Magdalene and what her life and testimony reveal about faithfulness to Jesus. Jennifer and her husband, Rev. Dr. David McNutt, serve in the Presbyterian church and co-founded McNuttshell Ministries

What do you do when you've prayed, waited, believed—and nothing seems to change? In seasons of delay, disappointment, and silence, it can be tempting to lose heart or take matters into your own hands. But God is still at work, even in the waiting. In this episode, Christine Caine unpacks Luke 1:1–25 and the story of Zechariah and Elizabeth and reveal how faith, hope, and trust are formed in the space between God's promise and its fulfillment. This message will encourage you to keep believing that even when God seems silent, He is not absent—His timing is always purposeful. You'll be reminded that your waiting is not wasted, your prayers have been heard, and your God still does the impossible. ✨If you ever asked questions like… ● Why does God seem silent when I'm praying so hard? ● What do I do when I feel disappointed by delay? ● Is God still working even when I can't see anything changing?

Today, on Karl and Crew, we kicked off our weekly theme, “What If,” with Dr. Jared Nelms and Dr. John Dickson. Dr. Jared Nelms joined us to discuss Titus 2, what true discipleship looks like through the grace of God, and how it calls us not just to know the truth, but to live it out. Dr. Nelms is the President and CEO of The Timothy Initiative, leading efforts to plant churches in unreached regions by training indigenous leaders. He previously served as a missionary in India and has extensive experience in global ministry across Asia and Africa. We then had Dr. John Dickson join us to discuss who Flavius Josephus was, the writings he left behind, and how new findings support the Testimonium Flavianum as a legitimate reference to Jesus. Dr. Dickson is an author, speaker, historian, and media presenter, and serves as the Jean Kvamme Distinguished Professor of Biblical Studies and Public Christianity at Wheaton College. He has published more than 20 books and hosts the Undeceptions podcast, one of Australia’s top Christian podcasts with a growing global audience. We then turned to the text messages to hear from our listeners. We asked the question, “What is your next step of obedience? What is God calling you to walk away from today?” We prayed for everyone who responded, asking God to strengthen them in obedience and lead them by His grace. You can hear the highlights of today’s program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to hear a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps:Dr. Jared Nelms [ 44:12 ]Dr. John Dickson [ 25:47 ]Text Segment [ 00:52 ]Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What if the power you need to live boldly for Christ is the very thing many believers overlook? The book of Acts reveals a Church that was radically transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit—and that same power is available to believers today. In this episode, Christine Caine unpacks the powerful moment of Pentecost in Acts 2 and explains why the Holy Spirit is not optional for the Christian life but essential for fulfilling God's mission. Through Scripture and powerful teaching, Christine reveals how the Spirit empowers ordinary people to live with supernatural courage, boldness, and purpose. If you've ever felt weary, overwhelmed, or unsure how to live out your faith, this episode will remind you that God has already given you the help you need. ✨If you've ever asked questions like… ● Why do I need the Holy Spirit in my daily life? ● Are the gifts of the Spirit still active today? ● How can I experience more of God's power and presence? This episode will encourage you to pursue a deeper relationship with the Holy Spirit and step into the supernatural life God designed for you.

In a world that rewards speed, productivity, and constant activity, what if the very thing your soul needs most is to slow down and linger in the presence of God? Many believers long for God's guidance, peace, and power in their lives, but rush past the very place where transformation happens. Scripture shows us that God's greatest work in us often begins when we simply stay in His presence. In this episode, Christine Caine explores Exodus 33 and the powerful moment when Joshua chose to remain in the tent of meeting long after Moses left. Through this story, she reveals how lingering in God's presence deepens our relationship with Him, sharpens our spiritual sensitivity, and prepares us for the calling He has placed on our lives. If you've been feeling spiritually rushed, distracted, or disconnected, this message will invite you back to the place where true transformation begins—God's presence. ✨ If you've ever asked questions like… ● Why does spending time in God's presence matter so much? ● How can I hear God more clearly in a busy and distracted world? ● How do I create intentional space to meet with God? …then this episode is for you. Discover how to slow down, seek God wholeheartedly, and rediscover the life-changing power of lingering in His presence.

What happens when we want the power of God—but not the heart of God? In this message, Christine Caine walks through Acts 8 to uncover a powerful warning for every believer: God isn't impressed by influence, platforms, or appearances—He is looking at the heart. Through the story of Simon the Sorcerer, Christine reveals the difference between authentic faith and counterfeit spirituality, and why our motives matter more to God than our gifts. In a world obsessed with visibility, influence, and spiritual performance, it's easy to mistake appearance for transformation. But Scripture reminds us that the gifts of God can never be bought, earned, or manipulated—God cares deeply about the condition of our hearts. If you've ever wrestled with comparison, spiritual ambition, disappointment, or hidden bitterness, this message will help you realign your heart with what truly matters and pursue the genuine work of God in your life. ✨ What you'll learn: • How to discern between genuine and counterfeit spiritual influence • Why motives matter more to God than outward success • How bitterness quietly blocks spiritual freedom • Why the gifts of God can never be bought, earned, or manipulated

Ambition can either drive you toward God's purpose—or quietly pull your heart away from it. But the wrong kind of ambition can quietly pull your heart away from God. In a culture that constantly tells us to achieve more, build more, and prove more, it's easy to confuse calling with striving. The Bible doesn't condemn ambition—but it does warn us about the danger of selfish ambition. In this episode, Christine Caine explores the powerful difference between godly ambition and selfish ambition, revealing how our motivations shape our leadership, our relationships, and our spiritual health. If you've ever wrestled with questions like: • Am I pursuing purpose—or just proving myself? • Is my drive coming from calling or insecurity? • How do I lead and succeed without losing my soul? This message will help you realign your ambition with the heart of God. ✨ What you'll learn: • The biblical difference between godly ambition and selfish ambition • How insecurity can quietly fuel unhealthy striving • Why true success in God's Kingdom is measured by love, not achievement • How to pursue your calling while staying rooted in humility and identity in Christ