The Allender Center Podcast

If you like a good story, we think you'll like this episode. This week, we're honored to welcome John Kasich—a national leader, lifelong public servant, and gifted storyteller. Throughout his career, he's met thousands of people, and he's here to share just a few of the stories that have stayed with him. As the 69th Governor of Ohio (2011–2019), Gov. Kasich led with a focus on unity and problem-solving. He rose to national prominence during his 2016 presidential run and continues to serve today through his work with the Kasich Company, his role as a political analyst for NBC and MSNBC, and as the author of several New York Times bestsellers. His latest book, Heaven Help Us: How Faith Communities Inspire Hope, Strengthen Neighborhoods, and Build the Future, is the heart of this week's conversation. John shares some of his personal journey—including how the sudden loss of his parents in a car accident became a life-altering moment. He also invites us into the deeply moving stories from his new book—stories of ordinary people in churches, synagogues, and mosques doing extraordinary work to serve their neighbors. These aren't just heartwarming accounts; they're powerful reminders of how faith can drive tangible, lasting change. This conversation moves quickly—so we encourage you to grab a copy of Heaven Help Us and spend time with these stories yourself. Join us for a conversation full of hope, challenge, and inspiration—about what's possible when we come together, rooted in faith, to love our neighbors and build a better world.  

We're living in a time that's quietly—but profoundly—reshaping our souls. Formed by a world of speed, efficiency, and endless information, most of us have been trained to seek quick answers, avoid ambiguity, and live with the belief that if we just do X, then Y will happen. It's not our fault—we've been discipled by our cultural moment, where data is king and mystery is often treated with suspicion. In the process, many of us have come to approach faith with an overdeveloped left brain—craving clarity and control, while growing uncomfortable with the unknown, the mystical, the experiential. And yet… something deeper in us still longs for more. In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender is joined by psychologist and New York Times Bestselling Author John Eldredge to explore the themes of John's new book, “Experience Jesus. Really.” Together, they offer a timely, tender invitation: to recover a life with God that is not only true, but felt—a life rooted in presence, wonder, and communion. This conversation explores: Why our modern world makes it hard to access the presence of God The invitation to become an “ordinary mystic”—someone who experiences God from the inside out What it means to live as an “amphibious” being, rooted in both the physical and spiritual How the presence of Jesus brings refuge, healing, and integration—especially in trauma Why this isn't just for the spiritual elite—but for all of us, here and now John draws from the wisdom of Christian mystics, scripture, and his own story to illuminate what it means to truly walk with Jesus today—in your body, your story, and your real life. If you've ever found yourself saying, “I want to experience more of God, but I don't know how”—we invite you to listen to this episode. Listener Resources: Be sure to check out John Eldredge's latest book, “Experience Jesus. Really.” here: https://wildatheart.org/books/experience-jesus-really Revisit the webinar, “The Power of Jesus in Therapeutic Practice” with Dan Allender and John Eldredge, to discover how to authentically integrate best practices with the healing power and loving care of God in your therapy practice: https://online.theallendercenter.org/courses/stories-that-shape-us-the-power-of-jesus-in-therapeutic-practice   

Have you ever felt unseen in a place where you were supposed to be known? Or like the more you tried to bring your true self forward, the more you were asked to hide it? Today on the podcast, author Aimee Byrd joins Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to talk about her new book, Saving Face: Finding My Self, God, and One Another Outside a Defaced Church.  It's a deeply personal and theological reflection on spiritual abuse, identity, and healing—especially in the wake of church systems that no longer reflect the face of Christ. Together, they explore what it means to reclaim your face—your personhood, your story, your sacred calling. Aimee draws on the rich insight of philosopher Emmanuel Levinas, who wrote that the face is not merely a physical feature, but the place where we encounter both God and one another. To truly see another's face is to take responsibility for their dignity and to recognize Christ's presence there. Aimee shares her story of how a system that promised reform instead left her mocked, erased, and dehumanized. In that disillusionment, she came to a painful but powerful realization: we don't just need reform. We need resurrection. A death to false forms of power, toxic moralism, and spiritual posturing—and a return to humility, presence, and love. This conversation offers an honest look at the loneliness of holding onto your God-given identity when others turn away, the courage it takes to seek the face of God in others, and the deep hope that emerges when we begin to see—and be seen—face to face. Listen to this week's episode about “Saving Face” with Aimee Byrd, and be sure to pick up a copy of her book at: https://aimeebyrd.com/saving-face/

What if your first addiction wasn't to a substance, but to someone's approval? In part two of our conversation with Ian Morgan Cron, we go deeper into the cycle of addiction, codependency, and the hope of recovery. Whether you're struggling with a relationship, a habit, a performance-driven mindset, or just the weight of trying to “be good,” this episode offers a profound invitation: transformation doesn't come from trying harder—it comes from surrender. You'll hear stories about the power of the 12 Steps, why spiritual awakening matters more than willpower, and how our early longings for love and safety often become tangled in the behaviors we're desperate to change. We talk about ministry, leadership, trauma, boundaries, and what it really means to carry your healing into the lives of others. This isn't a conversation about fixing people—it's about engaging your own story so you can show up with greater freedom, compassion, and clarity. Take a breath, take a listen. We hope you'll hear something that helps you come home to yourself. You can order Ian's new book here: https://ianmorgancron.com/thefix  Please Note: This episode contains some mature language; listener discretion is advised.  

Underneath every addiction is a deeper ache—and a surprising path to healing. Bestselling author, therapist, and Episcopal priest Ian Morgan Cron joins Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to share insights from his newest book, The Fix: How the Twelve Steps Offer a Surprising Path of Transformation for the Well-Adjusted, the Down-and-Out, and Everyone In Between. Ian invites us to reconsider the Twelve Steps—not just as a recovery tool for addicts, but as a grace-filled path of spiritual awakening for anyone longing for freedom, connection, and intimacy with God. This conversation is for everyone—not just those who identify as alcoholics or addicts. As Ian says, these steps offer healing to people who struggle with all kinds of attachments and compulsions: workaholism, people-pleasing, tech and porn addiction, codependency, control, food, spending, approval, sports betting… the list goes on. Ian points out that most of us are poly-addicted, caught in multiple patterns that disconnect us from God, ourselves, and each other. So this isn't about comparing struggles or measuring severity. It's about asking: Do I want to be free? Do I want to live with more honesty, grace, and surrender?  Whether or not you think you “need” the Steps, this conversation is a compassionate, humorous, and deeply spiritual invitation to let go of self-reliance and move toward the healing you were made for. Listen to Part 1 now, and be sure to come back next week for Part 2. In the meantime, you can order Ian's new book here: https://ianmorgancron.com/thefix  Please Note: This episode contains some mature language; listener discretion is advised.  

What happens when a woman names harm in her church community—and instead of support, she's met with silence, suspicion, or even exile?  Too often, the church's response to abuse and inequity reveals a painful truth: that protecting systems has taken precedence over protecting people. In this powerful and layered conversation, Dr. Andrew J. Bauman joins Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to confront the realities explored in Andrew's new book Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism and Abuse in Christian Communities.  Together, they discuss: The cost many women pay for speaking up: isolation, lost community, and spiritual disillusionment How even “progressive” churches can harbor subtle patterns of power and control The stark data that exposes ongoing gender inequity in ministry The personal stories that bring this reality to life—and why representation matters What a truly safe and equitable church could look like This is not just a conversation about what's broken—it's a call to build something better. A church where truth is welcomed, not silenced. Where policies protect the vulnerable. Where power is shared, not hoarded. And where the sacred image of God in women is honored, nurtured, and empowered. Whether you're a survivor, a leader, or someone wrestling with disillusionment, this episode offers a brave and hopeful vision of what the church can become—if we have the courage to tell the truth and move toward change. Related Resources: Order your copy of Dr. Andrew J. Bauman's SAFE CHURCH: How to Guard Against Sexism & Abuse in Christian Communities. Listen to the Allender Center Podcast episode: “Connections Between Spiritual and Sexual Abuse” Continue to learn with these self-paced online courses from the Allender Center: Spiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course and the Healing the Wounded Heart Online Course

If you've experienced the healing power of engaging your story—through a Story Workshop, Recovery Week, Narrative Focused Trauma Care® (NFTC) training, or a Story Group in your own context—you may have found yourself wondering: Why does this work feel so deeply transformative? What's actually happening here? In this special episode, we're pulling back the curtain on a groundbreaking, multi-year research project that's beginning to explore those very questions. Dr. Danielle Zurinsky of the Allender Center and Dr. David C. Wang of Fuller Theological Seminary join Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen to share what they're discovering so far—and why this moment matters. This work is part of a broader initiative we're calling the NFTC Model Research & Publication Project. It's an ambitious, long-term effort to clarify, codify, and formally articulate the core framework of Narrative Focused Trauma Care. Grounded in the decades-long work of Dr. Dan Allender, this project is about more than research—it's about building a foundation that allows this healing model to be recognized, trusted, and shared more widely. In today's conversation, we're letting you in early—before the publications—because we want this process to be rooted in relationship, transparency, and shared vision. Whether you're a practitioner, a past participant, or someone simply curious about the impact of story, you're part of this unfolding journey, too! And if your own healing has been shaped by story engagement with NFTC, this is a chance to be part of something bigger. You can support the continuation of this growing body of research—fueling everything from the team of scholars and writers to expanded training opportunities and broader recognition in therapeutic, academic, and spiritual spaces. You can visit theallendercenter.org/give to contribute at any financial level. We are currently fundraising to support the next phase of this project's continuation. Your contribution will help ensure this work continues—so more people, families, and communities can experience the deep transformation that comes through engaging their stories with courage and care. To learn more about NFTC, visit theallendercenter.org/nftc

Today Dan and Rachael welcome longtime friend and Allender Center Facilitator Adam Young, LCSW, to the podcast for a deeply moving conversation about the unexpected plot twists that shape our stories—and how they can become sacred invitations to connection, healing, and transformation.   Adam, who is a counselor, author, podcast host, and an NFTC Certified Instructor & Facilitator with the Allender Center, joins us to talk about his new book, Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything.   He vulnerably shares about a life-altering moment that brought him to his knees, and ultimately, into deeper communion with God. Together, Adam, Dan, and Rachael explore why revisiting the painful parts of our stories isn't a detour from growth, but the very path that helps us make sense of who we are today and imagine who we're becoming. Whether it's the story of our family of origin, our bodies, our culture, or our relationship with God, Adam offers practical and grace-filled ways to approach our histories with kindness instead of shame. Join us for today's conversation to consider how you can engage your past with even more courage and kindness—and to discover freedom, healing, and hope along the way. If you haven't already, don't wait - order your copy of Adam Young's new book, Make Sense of Your Story: Why Engaging Your Past with Kindness Changes Everything:  https://adamyoungcounseling.com/ or https://www.amazon.com/dp/1540904695/  ==== More Resources from the Allender Center: Free Guided Story Exercise – Take the next step in engaging your story with a free guided reflection and writing resource: theallendercenter.org/story Join a Story Workshop – Go deeper in your healing journey with others at an upcoming Story Workshop: theallendercenter.org/workshops    

Pastors today are navigating a complex, demanding, and often overwhelming landscape. Beyond the pulpit, they're expected to show up as counselors, administrators, fundraisers, teachers, building caretakers—and more. Some research even suggests pastors are carrying the weight of 13 different roles. It's no wonder so many feel stretched thin, exhausted, and alone. Today, Rachael and Dan sit down with Dr. Rose Madrid Swetman, Associate Director of the Center for Transforming Engagement, to name the often-unseen burdens pastors and ministry leaders carry—and to explore what it means to create space for care, support, and more sustainable leadership. Whether you're a pastor, a ministry leader, or someone who walks alongside and loves one, this episode offers a deeply human invitation: to reflect on how we care for ourselves, our leaders, and our communities. You'll find honest stories, thoughtful wisdom, and tangible practices for cultivating resilience—not by striving harder, but by rooting more deeply in connection: with God, with others, and with the truth that we were never meant to carry it all alone. Related Resources: Feeling overwhelmed or isolated in ministry? You're not alone. The Center for Transforming Engagement offers tools, support, and community to help you rediscover joy, build resilience, and lead with lasting impact. Find program offerings and resources at transformingengagement.org and find out more about Resilience Circles at transformingengagement.org/circles.  Self-Facilitated Resilience Retreat Guides: Download this free series to focus on three key areas of resilience: People, Practices, and Purpose. These mini-retreats are flexible and self-paced, providing practical tools to navigate life's challenges and strengthen your resilience. Get your free guides at transformingengagement.org/self-facilitated-resilience-retreat-guides. Rose cites the work of Steven Sandage, a Boston University School of Theology professor of psychology of religion and theology, who has found rates of post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms in clergy at levels higher than those in post-deployment military personnel. You can read about that work here: https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/why-are-so-many-religious-leaders-facing-stress-and-burnout/.  Rose also recommends looking into the work of Abraham Kuypter on public theology. Find more here: https://lexhampress.com/Kuyper

Good Friday is often described as paradoxical—a day of deep sorrow somehow called “good.” In this moving episode of the Allender Center Podcast, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen invite us into that paradox, not just as observers of the crucifixion story, but as participants—people whose own stories of betrayal, abandonment, and suffering echo the narrative of Jesus' final hours. Together, they explore what it means to enter into Good Friday by entering into our own “Fridays”—those dark and disorienting moments of our lives when we've not only been betrayed, but also betrayed others. The conversation invites us to reflect on the intersection between personal pain and collective suffering, and to consider how our experiences of humiliation, violence, and even despair connect us to the story of the cross. But this episode is not one of despair alone. It's an invitation to sit honestly in the tension of a day when evil seems to win, and yet—somehow—we dare to believe redemption is being forged in the depths of that agony. As Rachael says, it's a time when we're forced to confront the death of a dream, the silence between what is and what is promised. And yet, even in the sorrow, there is a movement toward hope. This topic is not easy—but it is so important to engage. We hope today's conversation offers space to weep, to name, and to consider how our own stories might be met and transformed by the suffering and love of Christ.  

Few relationships shape us like those with our siblings.  Whether you have siblings, share a sibling-like bond with a cousin or family friend, or are a parent navigating sibling dynamics, these relationships often play a significant role in defining our identity. Since so many of our listeners have asked us to explore this topic, today on the Allender Center Podcast, Dan and Rachael are diving deep into the messy, beautiful, and sometimes heartbreaking world of sibling dynamics. In today's episode, we explore how these dynamics often lead to rivalries, alliances, and, at times, painful wounds that can last well into adulthood.  These sibling roles aren't just part of our personal stories—they are deeply rooted in ancient patterns. We see these themes echoed in biblical texts, where stories of favor, envy, and scarcity unfold through generations. From Cain and Abel to Joseph and his brothers, the struggles we face with our siblings have a long, storied history. Tune in to gain fresh perspectives on navigating your sibling relationships, create space for growth, and learn how to honor the complex and beautiful stories each of you is living out.  

Last year, we had a powerful conversation with author Sam Jolman about his book The Sex Talk You Never Got—one of our most-listened-to episodes of the year. Now, Sam returns to share more about the book's impact and to dive deeper into its themes. This time, he and Dan explore the biblical story of Amnon and Tamar in 2 Samuel 13, a tragic account of lust, power, and sexual violence that resonates deeply with age-old struggles of the human heart. Sam unpacks how a man's sexuality is shaped not only by personal choices but also by the unspoken legacies of family and culture. He challenges men to move beyond a simplistic “behaving vs. not behaving” mindset and instead engage their own stories with honesty, grief, and healing. Their conversation also examines the cycle of violence—how Absalom's attempt to avenge Tamar only leads to further destruction. True healing requires humility, repentance, and a willingness to confront painful histories. This conversation is a call to courage: to name harm, seek healing, and embrace a sexuality that honors and protects rather than consumes and destroys. Please note that this episode contains discussions of sexual development and sexual abuse, including rape, and may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. === Are you ready to step into a deeper journey of healing? Recovery Week is a transformative, holistic experience designed to create a safe, relational space where survivors of sexual abuse can process their stories with care and courage. Here, you'll be invited to engage the deep impact of your past while discovering a path toward restoration, connection, and self-compassion. Applications are now open for our Summer 2025 Recovery Weeks.  Take the next step toward healing. Visit theallendercenter.org/recovery-week to learn more.

In part two of this conversation, Dan and Rachael continue their exploration by addressing the profound link between shame, food, and sex.  Shame is often leveraged by evil around our core needs for nourishment and intimacy to isolate and create deeper wounds, making it difficult to engage these areas with openness.   Dan emphasizes, "Knowing your story's vulnerability to how you have been harmed, but also how you've used food and sex," is crucial. Rather than allowing shame to silence or control us, Dan and Rachael encourage listeners to confront it with boldness. While shame may never fully disappear, we can engage it—not with harshness or self-destruction, but with a fierce kindness and courageous defiance. Rachael shares: “The Spirit is often inviting me in the disruption of shame, not to power up and go toward fight, flight or freeze as a way to disrupt shame, but to move toward tenderness, to move toward grief, to move toward a kind of righteous anger that leads to a ‘hell no.'”  Ultimately, the work of dismantling shame happens within a community of care. Dan reminds us that true healing takes place in a "playground of kindness"—a space where we are seen, known, and deeply loved. Please note that this episode contains discussions of sexual development, sex, body image, and disordered eating, and may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.  

Both food and sex are vital for sustaining life yet are often fraught with complex emotions and struggles. In the first of a two-part conversation, Dan and Rachael invite you to explore these deeply personal topics with curiosity and compassion. While we've previously discussed shame, food, and sex as separate issues, today we're diving into their powerful connection—and why it matters. Both food and sex are not just about survival; they can also offer comfort, pleasure, and a sense of belonging. From our earliest moments in the womb, these embodied experiences shape our understanding of safety, love, and connection. Yet, many of us know all too well the tension that surrounds them. Cultural messages, systemic oppression, and personal trauma can leave us feeling overwhelmed or disconnected from these vital parts of our humanity. Our hope is that this conversation reminds you: your relationship with food and sexuality is part of your broader story—a journey toward healing and wholeness. As you listen, we invite you to reflect on your own experiences with tenderness and grace, knowing that you are not alone in these struggles. Please note that this episode contains discussions of sexual development, sex, body image, and disordered eating, and may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.  

We're thrilled to welcome back Pastor James A. White, who challenges us to think deeply about the stories we've been told — and the ones we haven't. Who decides which stories get remembered and which are forgotten? How has a Western lens shaped our understanding of the gospel? And what can happen when we truly honor the origin stories of everyone — individual cultures, histories, and experiences? Pastor White believes that our past holds the key to both understanding the present and shaping a better future. In a world where truth is often distorted or silenced, he calls us to reclaim the power of storytelling — to listen well, read with intention, and resist narratives that erase or exclude. Drawing from the story of Jesus and the Samaritan woman, Pastor White highlights how Jesus intentionally crossed cultural divides to connect with and honor another's story — a powerful example of wisdom, humility, and compassion. The conversation calls for greater humility and curiosity in how we engage with others' stories, especially those shaped by trauma, resistance, and survival, while acknowledging the ways history and power influence how stories are told and remembered.  

We're continuing our conversation with Rev. Dr. David Rice about confronting Christian nationalism—a topic we're diving into because of the ways that it can deeply affect our faith, our communities, and how we engage with one another in this shifting cultural and political landscape. In our last episode, David shared his personal story—how his upbringing, ministry experiences, and cultural shifts shaped his understanding of faith and politics. We explored the unique challenges pastors face in addressing these issues from the pulpit and the tension of being accused of getting "too political" when speaking out about national concerns. If you haven't had a chance to listen yet, we encourage you to go back and catch up on that conversation first. In this episode, we'll dig deeper into: What Christian nationalism is and why it's a critical issue for people of faith, Our collective longing for control—something humanity has wrestled with since the very beginning—and how this longing fuels Christian nationalism, And how we can thoughtfully engage with our friends, neighbors, and fellow believers in conversations about these challenging issues. We hope our conversation with David sparks some new thoughts or insights into how power is being used, where our faith fits into these conversations, and how we can move forward in meaningful, compassionate ways. About Our Guest: Rev. Dr. David Rice is BJC's digital strategist, leading online engagement for the organization and its Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign. BJC is a nonprofit 501(c)(3) organization that brings people together to tackle today's serious threats to religious liberty, including the targeting of religious minorities, the rise of Christian nationalism, and the politicization of houses of worship. Ordained in the American Baptist Churches USA, Rice joined BJC's staff in 2024 after previously serving in rural parish ministry and starting his own communications consulting firm. Rice earned a Doctor of Ministry degree in missiology and organizational leadership from Western Theological Seminary and a Master of Divinity degree from the Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. His undergraduate degree is from Huntington University, where he studied youth ministry and Bible. Rice, who has lived on the West Coast and in the UK, now lives in Michigan with his family. He enjoys cycling, gardening, cross-country skiing, sourdough bread baking, traveling, and Arsenal football.  

Christian nationalism is a growing issue in the U.S., raising important questions about the relationship between faith and politics.  How does our faith shape the way we engage with political issues? And are our political allegiances influencing our faith in ways we may not realize? While we're certainly not a news or political network, this is a timely and necessary conversation. Power—both religious and political—can be used to bring about justice and healing, but it can also be wielded in ways that cause harm. In the first episode of a two-part conversation, we're joined by Rev. Dr. David Rice, an alumnus of The Seattle School and Digital Strategist for BJC, where he leads online engagement and the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign.  David begins by sharing his personal story—how his upbringing, ministry experiences, and cultural influences shaped his understanding of faith and politics. He also speaks to the challenges pastors and faith leaders face when addressing national issues from the pulpit, often being accused of being “too political.” We invite you to come back next week for part two of this conversation as David, Dan, and Rachael dive deeper—defining Christian nationalism, exploring our collective longing for control, and considering how we can engage with our communities in meaningful ways.  

In this episode, Rachael Clinton Chen welcomes back Dr. J. Derek McNeil, President and Provost of The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology, for a thoughtful conversation about navigating today's fragmented world with hope, kindness, and connection. They explore how uncertainty, institutional distrust, and cultural polarization have left many feeling unmoored.  As people of faith, we are called to love God and our neighbors—but how do we do this in a world that feels so divided?  Regardless of religious, political, or personal identity, we all feel the effects of fragmentation. We are in search of a new story—a story that can hold us together. Dr. McNeil reflects on the deep need for community and the dangers of isolating in survival mode. Together, they discuss the challenge of living faithfully amid social, political, and relational fractures. If you're grappling with feelings of disconnection or isolation, or if you've been wondering how to engage with others in a fractured world, tune in for a powerful conversation about finding hope, purpose, and co-creating a renewed sense of belonging.  

Valentine's Day is often wrapped in commercialized romance, but what if love is more than sentimentality? In this episode, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen explore an aspect of love that we all need—kindness. But not the shallow, conflict-avoidant “niceness” we often mistake for kindness. Instead, they dive into the disruptive, provocative nature of true kindness—kindness that challenges, disrupts old patterns, and calls us into deeper growth. Kindness asks us to receive care and, sometimes, even risk disconnection for the sake of deeper intimacy. Together, Dan and Rachael unpack how true kindness is an act of restoration. They discuss the surprising, ennobling nature of kindness and how it reflects the heart of God—a love that offers goodness even when we least deserve it. So, as we navigate a day often filled with roses and greeting cards, let's consider the kind of love that truly transforms—the kind that sees, knows, and calls us toward who we long to become.  

At the Allender Center, we love stories—and this week, we're honored to hear from Charlie Peacock as he shares his own. His brand-new memoir, “Roots and Rhythm: A Life in Music,” offers a deep dive into the journey that shaped his legendary career. A Grammy Award-winning music producer whose work has shaped the sound of multiple generations, Charlie opens up about his journey through music, his creative process, and the stories behind his life — and the stories he's chosen to tell in his memoir.  Join us for a conversation that explores artistry, spirituality, identity, and the cost of seeing the world in a different way. You can find Charlie Peacock's latest book, Roots & Rhythm: A Life in Music, wherever books are sold.   === Find the transcript for this episode and more at: theallendercenter.org/podcast

Healing isn't about “fixing” yourself or completing a checklist. It's about stepping into the fullness of who you were created to be. It's about reclaiming the parts of you that trauma, disappointment, or systems of injustice have tried to diminish.   As Dan puts it: “Healing can't take over our lives in the sense that you do nothing but heal. But there is something about love—love of your own body and what it can bring others when you are healthier.” Your healing matters because you matter—your story, your relationships, and the unique impact God has called you to make in the world. The journey toward healing can feel messy, nonlinear, and even lonely at times—but it doesn't have to be. Rachael and Dan remind us that healing isn't something we're meant to do alone. Healing happens in connection—with trusted friends, family, care providers, and a supportive community. It's a process we walk through together—supported by community, grounded in love, and marked by hope. We hope this week's podcast episode offers wisdom and practical steps to help you reimagine your relationship with healing this year. This episode contains some mild language; listener discretion is advised.  

Have you ever wondered what we mean when we say “your story” and why it matters? In this special episode, Adam Young, Cathy Loerzel, and Dan Allender sit down together to unpack the basics. Whether you're new to this conversation or you've been on the journey for a while, this is a perfect place to start—or to revisit the foundation of story work. We're thrilled to co-release this episode with The Place We Find Ourselves Podcast. Grab a cup of coffee, find a cozy spot, and join us as we explore the transformative power of engaging your story. If this conversation resonates with you, we'd love for you to join us in person (or online!) at the StoryWork Conference in Atlanta, GA, on Saturday, February 22, 2025. Spend a day diving deeper into your story with Dan, Cathy, and Adam. Therapists, CEUs are available! Ready to take the next step? Find all the details at: adamyoungcounseling.com/storywork-conference-2025/  

To celebrate the forthcoming release of The Deep-Rooted Marriage, co-authored by Dan Allender and Steve Call, Dan and Becky Allender reflect on their own marriage story — its unique dynamics, the challenges they've faced, and the redemptive journey they've walked together.  They open up about how their family-of-origin stories shaped their relationship in ways they didn't initially realize and the intentional work it took to build new, healthier ways of connecting, particularly over the past decade. Whether you're married, dating, or reflecting on other relationships in your life, we think Dan and Becky's vulnerability and hard-earned insights will resonate with anyone who has felt stuck in a pattern or wondered how to move forward toward healing. Their story is a powerful reminder that meaningful growth takes time, courage, kindness, and the willingness to engage your stories — together. Be sure to get your copy of The Deep-Rooted Marriage, available here on Amazon or at your favorite bookseller on January 21, 2025.

Becky Allender sits down with Rachael Clinton Chen for a one-on-one conversation. Becky reflects on how she and Dan have experienced profound transformation in their marriage, particularly since the Allender Center was founded in 2011. It was during this time that they began practicing the fundamentals of story engagement within their own relationship—a journey that not only changed their lives but also inspired the Marriage offerings at the Allender Center.  No matter what season you're in—whether your relationship is new or you've been married for decades like Dan and Becky—there's always something new to learn. Every step offers a chance to meet one another with greater kindness, compassion, and understanding. Next week, Dan will rejoin the podcast conversation, but today, we hope you enjoy this episode with Becky and Rachael as they share their wisdom and reflections on marriage and connection. Listener Resources: Check out Hidden in Plain Sight by Becky Allender. Read some of Becky Allender's blog posts. Pre-order your copy of The Deep-Rooted Marriage by Dan Allender and Steve Call.  

As we think about the upcoming year, we know that hope can feel elusive. Weighed down by uncertainty, exhaustion, and a world filled with division and stress, it's easy to wonder if hope is even worth holding onto. Hope carries heartache. Longing for something better can feel vulnerable, especially when past disappointments and cynicism weigh heavy on our hearts. It can feel safer to let go of hope than to risk the ache of unfulfilled desire. But as Dan Allender shares, hope isn't passive or naïve. It's “a kind of patience that does not erase desire, but has a resilience to remain in the movement toward the dream that hope holds, with a kind of defiance—a willingness to say, I don't just wait passively, I wait in a way in which I'm willing to risk on the anticipation of the arrival of what my heart most deeply desires.” Hope doesn't deny the pain of the past or present; it's a courageous choice to believe in the future possibility of good. And it often begins small—a moment of gratitude, a glimpse of beauty, or the connection we find with others. This year, we can choose hope—not because it's easy, but because it opens us up to something deeper, truer, and worth desiring.  

As we near the close of the year, Dan and Becky Allender are continuing a podcast tradition: sitting down to reflect on their experiences and inviting you, our listeners, to join them in this meaningful practice. Dan and Becky share their own reflections—what they've learned, what they're grieving, and what they're celebrating—as they prepare to transition into a new season. They've also shared a few practical ways you can reflect on your year: Scroll through your photo gallery. Notice the moments that brought you joy, growth, or even challenge. Review your calendar. Whether you logged your events in a digital calendar or on paper, look back on events and milestones from each month. Do you notice any themes? Choose five words. If you could describe your year in just five words, what would they be? We hope you'll take a moment as we close out the year to pause, reflect, and dream for what's to come.      

With Christmas just around the corner, it's easy to get lost in the comforts of gifts, gatherings, and familiar holiday carols. Yet in today's podcast, Dan and Rachael remind us that the true celebration of Christmas means embracing the profound disruption Jesus brought to the world—a call to love, bless, and challenge the status quo, even in a world often defined by hatred and division. This conversation invites us to see Christmas as more than a season of comfort. It's a time of transformation, calling us to step into the work of love, justice, and restoration. Merry Christmas from all of us here at the Allender Center! We'll take a short break on the podcast next week, and will return on December 27th with a year-end reflection from Dan and Becky Allender.  

As we continue through the season of Advent, this week's episode of the Allender Center Podcast invites you to linger in the profound mystery of light and darkness found in John 1.  Dan and Rachael reflect on the richness of this passage, offering insights into the paradox of the light that reveals all yet remains unseen by many. “In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.” (John 1:4-5) Through their conversation, Dan and Rachael explore  why arrogance and dogmatism can obscure even the brightest of truths, how Jesus, the true light, shattered societal and religious expectations of power and hierarchy, and  what it means to embody vulnerability and hope in a world steeped in exploitation and suffering. With honesty and humility, they wrestle with the ways we — individually and collectively — can miss the light of Christ in our midst. Yet, we're also reminded of the profound hope of the Word made flesh, dwelling among us still.  

As we enter the season of Advent, Dan and Rachael invite us to reflect on the opening of John's Gospel: “In the beginning was the Word…” From there, they move to John's closing declaration: “Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.” Through this framework, they delve into the meaning and weight of the Word — and of words themselves. Words are not just for speaking, but also for listening. (We often forget that part.) Dan shares his personal longing for this season: “I want, for me, this season, I want for us to love the Word, to love words, to be silenced, to have more sense of awe. And in many ways, the humility to move toward a vulnerability that askews false power.” While this episode leans a bit more philosophical than some, we hope it offers a thoughtful space to ponder the beauty and mystery of the Word. Join Dan and Rachael as they share their own questions and reflections, inviting us into a richer experience of Advent.  

When confronting spiritual abuse, it can feel more straightforward to focus on a specific person or leader who may have caused harm. But it's also important to address the systems and cultural contexts that, in their most obvious forms, promote abuse—and in their more subtle forms, allow it to happen or refuse to confront it. In this episode, Dan and Rachael dive into the painful realities of spiritual abuse and the systems that uphold it. They explore how cultural powers—such as patriarchy, white supremacy, capitalism, and purity culture—often intertwine with Christian theology, creating harmful environments that distort our understanding of God and faith. And yet, even in the face of this, there is a call to confront our complicity in these systems with grace and humility.  We hope this conversation is an invitation to wrestle with and address how we've been shaped by harmful cultures and systems and how we may have participated in them – and ultimately, to consider how we can step into a more loving, just, and merciful understanding of God and community. === We invite you to explore the brand-new Spiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course from the Allender Center. This 6-lesson course, complete with reflective practices and deep dive panel discussions, helps you engage your body, mind, and spirit as you unpack the harm caused by spiritual abuse. Whether you're just beginning to wake up to this reality or have been on a healing journey for years, this course provides a safe and welcoming space to deepen your understanding and work towards healing. Learn more and enroll today at: theallendercenter.org/online-courses

Abuse of any kind involves a setup and a breach of trust – and spiritual abuse is no exception.  Whether it stems from personal relationships or institutional settings, spiritual abuse can deeply disrupt our sense of attachment and connection, leaving lasting wounds. These wounds may have their roots in early developmental trauma, making spiritual abuse feel like an echo of past harm. It's not just about the betrayal of spiritual abuse in the more recent past—whether during teen years, college experiences, or adulthood—but about understanding how our earliest experiences have shaped our ability to trust and heal. === We invite you to explore the brand-new Spiritual Abuse & Healing Online Course from the Allender Center. This 6-lesson course, complete with reflective practices and deep dive panel discussions, helps you engage your body, mind, and spirit as you unpack the harm caused by spiritual abuse. Whether you're just beginning to wake up to this reality or have been on a healing journey for years, this course provides a safe and welcoming space to deepen your understanding and work towards healing. Learn more and enroll today at: theallendercenter.org/online-courses

In this episode of the Allender Center Podcast, Dan and Rachael open up about navigating uncertain times with faith and intentionality.  They recorded this conversation before the results of the U.S. Presidential election were announced so that, no matter the outcome, they could focus on what it means to act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly in today's world.  As they examine both the cultural landscape and the state of their own hearts, we invite you to listen and join them in reflecting on what it looks like to live with purpose and compassion — even when the future feels unknown. “American Gospel” (Jon Guerra, 2024), used with permission. You can hear more from Jon at jonguerramusic.com.

This week, we're checking in with you, dear listeners, in a candid and vulnerable episode.  Days before the U.S. Presidential Election, Dan and Rachael share the emotional weight they're carrying, touching on the intense anxiety, anger, and grief of this turbulent season and honestly acknowledging, “We're not doing well.”  Together, they explore practices that help them stay grounded and find hope. We hope that this conversation possibly helps you navigate similar feelings in uncertain times, or, at the very least, reminds you that you are not alone. Editor's Note: Dan and Rachael recalled different percentages regarding White Protestants' views on immigrants. According to the source, however, the executive summary states: “While few Americans (35%) agree that “immigrants are invading our country and replacing our cultural and ethnic background,” this view is held by 65% of Republicans, as well as most viewers of far-right news (83%) and Fox News viewers (66%). White evangelical Protestants (62%) are the only religious group among whom a majority agree that immigrants are invading our country and replacing our cultural and ethnic background.” Source: prii.org Related Resources: Dan and Rachael reference the following works during their conversation: Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why by Laurence Gonzales Oscillation Guidebook by Gabes Torres Article: “A third of Americans agree with Trump that immigrants ‘poison the blood' of US” published by The Guardian, October 18, 2024. Article: “Challenges to Democracy: The 2024 Election in Focus” published by prii.org, October 11, 2024.  

In this episode, we invite you to take a deep breath and find some grounding through the power of poetry. Whether you're navigating stress or simply feeling a bit unsteady, poetry — reading it, writing it, or even the act of writing any thoughts by hand — can offer profound moments of calm and connection. We're thrilled to be joined once again by Sue Cunningham, an Allender Center facilitator and licensed therapist. Sue wears many hats — poet, life and soul coach, spiritual director — and now, podcast host! Be sure to check out her newly launched podcast, Living Poetry, available wherever you listen to podcasts. We hope this episode feels like a balm for your soul, offering beauty, healing, and practical ways to use poetry to find peace and grounding in this season.  

Dr. J.P. Kang joins Dan and Rachael this week to introduce The Seattle School's brand new Certificate in Scripture and Society.  From the beginning, J.P. makes it clear—this isn't just another Bible study course. As he explains, “It's not the way that they've approached scripture in a previous church setting or perhaps faith-based educational institution. I think that what I'm trying to do is help students become better readers, both of the text and of their context, of themselves.” This transformative, 12-month certificate program offers a fresh, psychologically-informed approach to studying the Bible. Students will explore scripture through diverse cultural, historical, and literary perspectives while being guided by esteemed scholars and seasoned practitioners. The program is designed to challenge and expand how we read and interpret both the text and our world. If you're a faith leader or someone passionate about engaging scripture through liberative, intellectually rigorous lenses, this program is for you. Live, online courses begin January 2025, and applications are open now through December 1, 2024.  Discover more and apply at theseattleschool.edu/scripture

On this week's episode of The Allender Center Podcast, licensed therapist, professor, and author Chuck DeGroat returns to discuss his latest book, “Healing What's Within: Coming Home to Yourself—and to God—When You're Wounded, Weary, and Wandering.” In this deeply personal and insightful conversation, Chuck explores the profound journey of healing from trauma, especially when it's caused by circumstances beyond our control. After the release of his previous book, “When Narcissism Comes to Church,” Chuck was flooded with messages from people dealing with wounds that weren't their fault. This prompted him to ask: How do we move from being defined by what happens to us, to understanding the transformation that happens within us? In “Healing What's Within,” Chuck invites readers to encounter God as a compassionate witness to their trauma, offering unconditional kindness and presence in whatever state they find themselves. If you're seeking hope and healing on your journey, we highly recommend this book, which is available wherever books are sold.

Just as it's important to understand our own stories to make sense of our lives today, it's also crucial to examine the stories within the church's history to better understand how they are playing out in the present. That's why we're excited to welcome back author, professor, and church historian The Rev. Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt as she explores the life of a woman who played a significant role in the ministry, burial, and resurrection of Jesus: Mary Magdalene. For too long, the church has misunderstood Mary Magdalene—her story often confused, scandalized, and undervalued. Yet, she was present at the resurrection. But why was this so important? Why was she chosen to witness and then commissioned to "go and tell," becoming the first apostle? This powerful story reminds us that God calls the ordinary, imperfect, and unexpected to uniquely reveal the gospel. You can preorder your copy of The Mary We Forgot: What the Apostle to the Apostles Teaches the Church Today by Jennifer Powell McNutt at bakerbookhouse.com. Use code ALLENDER50 to save 50% and get free shipping.  

Join us for a compelling two-part conversation with author, ghostwriter, and investigative journalist Nancy French. In this episode, Nancy shares some of her story - from growing up in the impoverished foothills of the Appalachian Mountains to meeting her now-husband, journalist David French, and spontaneously moving to New York and beginning her career as ghostwriter for numerous books by conservative political leaders, including five that hit the New York Times bestselling list. Stay tuned for part two in which Nancy talks about the deeply personal investigative journalism project that changed the course of her career and her life. *** Listener discretion is advised: This two-part discussion includes discussion of child abuse, particularly sexual abuse, suicide, and some coarse language.  

In this episode, Nancy opens up about her personal journey through childhood sexual abuse, revealing how it led her to take on an investigative journalism project that would dramatically alter both her career and her life. As the lead journalist, Nancy exposed the deep-rooted culture of enabling and covering up sexual abuse at one of the largest Christian camps in the U.S. In the process of confronting her own past, Nancy also faced significant opposition, particularly from Christians who defended the camp. She and her husband endured personal attacks as they distanced themselves from conservative views that no longer reflected their faith. The backlash Nancy encountered for her work has been intense. Dan comments, “Telling the truth is the root and the rule of freedom. But the price often for those who tell the truth is a form of imprisonment—a kind of being bound and sent out.” Regardless of political views, Nancy's story is one of pursuing truth, seeking justice, and finding healing in the most unexpected places. If you'd like to hear more from Nancy, be sure to pick up her book, “Ghosted: An American Story,” available wherever books are sold. *** Listener discretion is advised: This two-part discussion includes discussion of child abuse, particularly sexual abuse, suicide, and some coarse language.  

In this episode, Rachael Clinton Chen and her husband Michael Chen dive into the importance of parenting with kindness—not just toward children, but toward ourselves. Whether you're a parent, grandparent, or caregiver, it's common for past traumas to resurface when you're feeling overwhelmed or stretched thin.  Rachael and Michael openly discuss the joys and challenges they've faced in their new marriage, blending families, raising young children, and navigating a pandemic, all of which have both triggered old wounds and offered opportunities for healing. This candid conversation is an invitation to explore how grief can be a catalyst for growth and how choosing kindness over harshness creates space for deeper connection and hope for yourself and for future generations. If you'd like to hear more on this topic, we invite you to join Rachael Clinton Chen and trauma therapist Aundi Kolber on Friday, October 4, for a live webinar, “Parenting As a Trauma Survivor.” They'll share trauma-informed insights to help you understand why parenting can be so triggering and offer practical tips for addressing your own healing while showing up for your children in the way they need most. Sign up to be part of the conversation at: theallendercenter.org/events   

Dan opens today's episode with this principle:  “All harm came in relationship; all healing equally requires a relationship.” If you've been with us for a while, you'll understand that healing from abuse is not something we do alone. We need the presence and kindness of others to truly heal and flourish. Yet, when we've been abused, it can feel so challenging to trust again, especially when trauma leaves us feeling isolated and hypervigilant. In this episode, Dan and Rachael explore how finding supportive friends, reconnecting with family (if you are able to), and engaging in therapy can play an essential role as you move towards healing. More importantly, they talk about how to discern who is truly safe, trustworthy, and supportive. They offer practical advice on what to look for in those who walk alongside you and how to know if they're ready to support you. We hope today's conversation reveals the possibilities ahead and helps you take those first steps toward building meaningful relationships, inviting others into your healing journey.  

This week, we're sifting through some of the "debris" that can hinder people from moving into the healing process in the wake of sexual abuse.  Dan and Rachael talk about some of the questions that can keep people feeling stuck and silent: What if I don't remember everything? What if my healing journey affects my loved ones? Shouldn't I just forgive and move on? Can I wait until life isn't so busy? What if facing this feels overwhelming? By acknowledging these barriers, you can start to see a way through. Next week, we'll discuss what's needed to begin the healing journey from past abuse. Please note that this episode contains discussions of sexual abuse and childhood sexual abuse, and may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Listener Resources: Explore more podcast episodes including: "The Cost of Engaging Stories of Sexual Abuse," "Connections Between Spiritual and Sexual Abuse," and "Bearing Witness to Stories of Sexual Abuse and Racial Trauma." Read: Healing the Wounded Heart by Dr. Dan Allender Sign up for the Healing the Wounded Heart Online Course from the Allender Center  

In this episode, Rachael Clinton Chen is joined by Vanessa Sadler, a trauma-informed spiritual director and contemplative creative, who brings heartfelt wisdom to the conversation about healing from personal and collective trauma and abuse. Vanessa draws on her unique training in the Enneagram, spiritual direction, and Narrative Focused Trauma Care to explore what spiritual direction truly is (and what it is not).  Vanessa highlights the transformative power of spiritual direction as a vital part of the healing journey, helping to renew our spiritual imagination and attachment to God, ourselves, and others. She also shares some contemplative practices and resources that can support this process, which are linked in the show notes below. Listener Resources: Subscribe to NOURISH Daily, a guided journey delivered to your inbox for 30 days, at https://centerfjp.org/nourish/ . Vanessa's recommended reading list includes: Starting Spiritual Direction by John Mabry, Meditations of the Heart by Howard Thurman, and The Gift of Being Yourself by David Benner. She also references authors Margaret Gunther and Kaitlin Curtice and therapist Melody Li. Read more about the Lectio Divina, Visio Divina, and the practices of kataphatic and apophatic prayer. Listen to Peace Talks, a podcast hosted by Vanessa Sadler from the Center for Formation, Justice, and Peace. In particular, Vanessa references this episode with Linda Royster and Dan Allender.

Spiritual director and story coach, TJ Poon, sits down with Rachael Clinton Chen to explore the intersection of spiritual formation and White racial identity development.  We'll begin by saying that we are approaching this conversation with a deep sense of responsibility and humility, honoring the voices of people of color who have led the way and are aware that two White people are not experts on racism. This is a complex topic and there will be missteps. Even when the conversations are difficult, we at the Allender Center know that the realities of racism and White supremacy cannot be ignored, and we are committed to holding a space to engage them. In today's episode, TJ and Rachael consider how White-bodied people understand their stories, how their stories and spiritual formation have been influenced by systems of Whiteness, and the challenge of feeling anchored and connected to family histories. They also acknowledge that on this journey of personal and collective healing, White people will inevitably need to confront anxiety, shame, and humiliation in their pursuit of restoration, with a commitment to what TJ calls “joyful anti-racist action.” We hope you'll join us in this conversation with curiosity, compassion, and courage, understanding that ongoing dialogue, learning, and formation are vital to our work with trauma on behalf of the kingdom of God. We invite you to also listen to: Racial Trauma and White Supremacy Becoming an Anti-Racist, Part One Becoming an Anti-Racist, Part Two The Violence of Marginalization  

Parents, this episode is for you! Join Rachael Clinton Chen as she sits down with Jay and Heather Stringer to explore how to talk to your kids about sensitive topics like the body, desire, sex, puberty, and even pornography in ways that are kind and attuned to their needs.  Jay and Heather share the importance of parents first exploring their own stories around sexuality, as unresolved issues or patterns in our own upbringing can impact how we approach these conversations with our children.  In this episode, you'll find thoughtful discussions on attachment, body image, puberty, sex, and how to navigate challenging subjects like porn and sexting. Instead of having one big, awkward conversation, Jay and Heather suggest having ongoing, age-appropriate chats that feel natural and comfortable. The aim is to empower your kids to feel confident and informed as they learn about their bodies and desires, all within the safety of a loving and supportive environment. If you're looking to change the narrative for your kids around sex and want to create intentional, meaningful conversations, this episode is a great place to start. Please note that this episode contains discussions of sex and sexual development and may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.  

We're back to engage more questions from you, our listeners, about healing from spiritual abuse. In this episode, Rachael Clinton Chen, alongside Allender Center Product Manager Melissa Dowell, addresses heartfelt and challenging questions from our community.  These questions explore the complexities of bringing spiritual abuse to light, navigating healing as survivors, especially those who have faced backlash for speaking out, and managing the unique struggles of working in a church while dealing with past or present spiritual harm. Thank you to all who submitted questions. This is part of an ongoing conversation, and we are deeply grateful for your willingness to ask questions, listen to this episode, and engage with these issues with us. More resources on spiritual abuse: Listen to this Spotify playlist: Over 20 Podcasts on Spiritual Abuse & Healing from the Allender Center Check out this set of recorded webinars with Rachael Clinton Chen: Confronting Spiritual Abuse and Healing from Spiritual Abuse (with Matthias Roberts) Join the waitlist for the Story Workshop for Spiritual Abuse & Healing, happening May 16-18, 2025.

Join Rachael Clinton Chen for the conclusion of her three-part series, where she offers a candid and heartfelt look at her journey of holistic healing from complex PTSD and anxiety. In this final episode, Rachael explores the surprising aspects of trauma recovery, including how trauma manifests in the body and the often unpredictable nature of the healing process. Building on her previous discussions about the mental and spiritual impacts of trauma, Rachael now turns her focus to the physical aspects of healing. She shares insights from her own experiences with various healing modalities, highlighting what has been effective for her. While this episode is not intended as medical advice, we hope the central message is clear: healing is a continuous journey, full of both challenges and progress, and sometimes requiring revisiting old wounds. We hope this series of heart-to-heart conversations has brought you hope, made you laugh, made you think, and most of all made you feel like you're not alone. Thank you for taking this journey with us. We'd love to hear your thoughts on this series—please email us at support@theallendercenter.org with your feedback!

This month, we're bringing back three of our most popular conversations from last year, featuring some incredible guests. Whether you've heard them before or not, we invite you to listen, reflect, and perhaps share them with a friend. The third and final episode in our summer replay series features Dr. Dan Allender and Becky Allender, and Dr. Steve Call and Lisa Call. This was our most-downloaded episode about marriage last year, and there's definitely some wisdom in this conversation. You'll hear how our attachment styles show up within the context of marriage, how to identify and name those attachments, and how to heal in our most intimate relationships. We'll be back next week with an all-new episode! Listener Resources: To learn more about how our stories unfold in our marriages, check out the Marriage Online Course. Listen to more episodes on the topic of marriage and relationships on this curated Spotify playlist: Podcasts on Marriage & Relationships.  

This month, we're bringing back three of our most popular conversations from last year, featuring some incredible guests. Whether you've heard them before or not, we invite you to listen, reflect, and perhaps share them with a friend. This episode in our summer replay series is a conversation with the amazing Marcie Alvis Walker. You may know Marcie's work from her popular Instagram feed, Black Coffee with White Friends, or her Black-Eyed Stories on Substack. Co-hosted by Rachael Clinton Chen and Linda Royster, this conversation focuses on Marcie's memoir, “Everybody Come Alive,” where she reflects on the imprint of God, race, and gender growing up in the 70s and 80s. Listener Resources: Pick up your copy of Everybody Come Alive: A Memoir in Essays by Marcie Alvis Walker here. Listen to more episodes on the topic of spiritual abuse and healing on this curated Spotify playlist: Podcasts on Racial Trauma & Healing. Read the full transcript of this episode as it originally aired in July 2023.  

This month, we're bringing back three of our most popular conversations from last year, featuring some incredible guests. Whether you've heard them before or not, we invite you to listen, reflect, and perhaps share them with a friend. This first episode in our summer replay series is a conversation with a dear friend, author, and alumnus of The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology, Matthias Roberts.  Last fall, Matthias joined Dan and Rachael to discuss his latest book, "Holy Runaways." (If you haven't read it yet, we recommend that you add it to your summer reading list!) Dan and Rachael chatted with Matthias about religious trauma and the hope of moving forward with a commitment to truth, deep listening, and compassion. Listener Resources: Pick up your copy of Holy Runaways by Matthias Roberts here. Listen to more episodes on the topic of spiritual abuse and healing on this curated Spotify playlist: Podcasts on Spiritual Abuse & Healing

We're back with part two of our three-part series with Rachael Clinton Chen, where she candidly shares personal insights from her own journey of holistically healing from complex PTSD and anxiety, and the things she didn't expect when healing from trauma. In this episode, Rachael explores how trauma disrupts not only our mental and physical well-being but also our spiritual formation and imagination. Rachael reflects on her own healing journey, navigating the ways in which early spiritual experiences compounded her trauma by framing symptoms as moral failings. From the heart-wrenching lows to the moments so absurd they bring laughter, and every breakthrough in between, we hope this series of heart-to-heart conversations will bring you hope, make you laugh, make you think, and most of all make you feel like you're not alone. Stay tuned for Part 3, which will be released on August 2.