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2 episodes with jf penn
2 episodes with jf penn
2 episodes with jf penn
Remember to check out our special guest JF Penn's Books & Travel podcast as well as her memoir, Pilgrimage: Lessons learned from solo walking three ancient ways.-------------------------------------------------------------------Your host is Bradley Chermside, author of international bestselling Camino de Santiago memoir, The Only Way Is West. Bradley has walked the Camino Frances, Camino Portuguese, Camino Inglés and the Camino Fisterra.Bradley's Camino de Santiago book, The Only Way Is West, is a multiple time international bestseller in the Humorous Essays, Action and Adventure Biographies and Travel Writing categories in the USA, UK, Canada and Australia. To get your eyes on an ebook, your hands on a paperback, or, your ears around the audiobook version, click here :) You can also buy Brad a coffee at the link below - he LOVES coffee! :) https://www.buymeacoffee.com/pilgrimspodcast
Boy, do I have a treat for you guys! Along with my celebrity co-host Jodi Burnett, my extra special guest on the show today is none other than Award-Winning, Bestselling Author, Entrepreneur, and Award-Winning Podcaster Joanna Penn!!!!Joanna Penn writes non-fiction for authors and is an award-nominated, New York Times and USA Today bestselling thriller, dark fantasy, crime, and horror author as J.F. Penn. She's also an award-winning podcaster as the host of the Creative Penn Podcast that, according to Listen Notes, is in the top 0.5% of three million of all global podcasts. She is also a creative entrepreneur and a highly sought after international professional speaker.In today's episode we discuss:· Trigger warnings and the implications of using them.· Her newest book, “Writing The Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness into Words.”· The moment in time Joanna Penn quit her day job and took the plunge into being a full-time author entrepreneur. · Lessons learned from Joanna's business accomplishments and missteps. · Keeping up with and benefiting from artificial intelligence and other fast-paced technology. · Keeping her business as fresh and fun as when she first started.· Giving away the farm. When is it appropriate and effective?· The impact and value of podcasting. Setting realistic goals and expectations.· Joanna's favorite book she has written.Please visit Joanna Penn's website to learn more about her and her books!Please visit Jodi Burnett at her website to learn more about her and her books.Check out Field Training (Brew City Blues Book 1)!!Enjoy the Cops and Writers book series.Please visit the Cops and Writers website. Only for Cops and Writers Podcast listeners! Get 50% off the audiobook version of the F.B.I. K-9 thriller, Avenging Adam by Jodi Burnett. Use code, https://jodi-burnett.com/copsandwriters/Support the show
Jo Francis Penn is English, currently living in Bath. As an 11-year-old, she lived in Malawi, Africa; in her teens she lived for a short period in Israel; and as a young adult she lived in New Zealand and Australia. Once back in the UK, she made a career change, moving from tech into writing fiction and non-fiction. Her international relocations and ongoing travels inform her trove of fiction thrillers, and dark fantasy stories, and her entrepreneurial savvy with the business side of writing informs her collection of non-fiction books. Jo is also an avid walker, often solo-hiking long distances. And in this episode we talk about the circumstances that lead Jo to walk three ancient way walks, including the Camino from Porto in the north of Portugal, to Santiago de Compostela in Spain, and her recently-released, aptly titled memoir, Pilgrimage: Lessons Learned From Walking Three Ancient Ways.
Joanna Penn, aka JF Penn, shares her journey writing Pilgrimage, a Travel Memoir that she launched with a successful Kickstarter campaign in 2023.You can find the book at https://www.jfpenn.com/pilgrimage -- in ebook, print and audiobook along with a Workbook to help you journal your own questions and answers likely to arise on undertaking a pilgrimage. Listen also to relevant episodes on her Books and Travel podcast.Penn shares insights on the challenges and fulfilling moments of walking solo on two ancient pilgrimage ways in England during Covid, followed by finally reaching a lifelong dream to walk the Camino de Santiago.She offers useful tips for:a) Undertaking such a journeyb) Integrating the trips into her lifec) Writing a Travel Memoir book called Pilgrimage, Lessons Learned from Solo Walking Three Ancient Waysd) Launching it on Kickstartere) Why authors sometimes need to write a book from the heart, not directly connected to their brand or business.✅ Recommended - get my FREE CHECKLIST:5 Book Hooks you must have to Captivate non-fiction Readers: Checklist (Free): https://www.writethebookinsideyou.com/freegift ✅ Connect with Caryl Westmore on social media! https://www.facebook.com/carylwestmoreauthorhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/bookinsideyouhttps://twitter.com/carylwestmoreukShow Sponsors: Books for Writers by Caryl Westmore: Bust Writer's Block Forever www.bustwritersblock.com and The Inner Path of Writing, Make Love not War to the Writer Within . Details here: https://www.ipwbook.com
Last week's episode (#261) featured Joanna Penn, New York Times and USA Today best-selling fiction author (as JF Penn), nonfiction author, longtime podcaster, and someone who I think embodies everything we talk about on this podcast! For 14 years, Joanna has blazed a trail, not just in the world of independent publishing, but also in the way she's built her personal brand on a global basis. IN THIS EPISODE, I get together with marketing strategist and podcast producer - Brendan Keogh - to recap my interview with Joanna. Lots of insights and key takeaways discussed!
I'm really excited to bring you today's episode featuring Joanna Penn aka 'The Creative Penn'. Joanna is a New York Times and USA Today best-selling fiction author (as JF Penn), nonfiction author, longtime podcaster, and someone who I think embodies everything we talk about on this show! And when I say everything, I mean everything! For 14 years, Joanna has blazed a trail, not just in the world of independent publishing, but also in the way she's built her personal brand on a global basis. That she's managed to continually evolve both professionally and creatively is testament to her mindset and attitude, her commitment to lifelong learning, and her willingness to experiment in public and share the lessons along the way. Joanna is a genuine credible authority in her field. She's both a domain expert and bona fide thought leader. She has built a loyal global audience via her podcast and YouTube channel; she's active on social media, as well as in-demand as a public speaker. Joanna's story is an inspirational one. Let's hear it now!
Avanti Centrae is an international best-selling author who blends history, science and suspense into pulse pounding action thrillers. And she's here today talking about her latest book, Cleopatra's Vendetta. ‘Born a goddess Cleopatra died a prisoner, but the cobra's deadly kiss was just the beginning.' Hi, I'm your host, Jenny Wheeler. And today on binge reading, Avanti talks about how she melds ancient history with contemporary politics, how history is told by the winners and why she wants to restore Cleopatra's reputation as a world changing woman. Book Giveaway This Week But before we get to that, just let's talk about our giveaway for this week. Sadie's Vow Book One in the Home At Last series by myself, Jenny Wheeler, free this week. We're preparing for the launch of Susannah's Secret, Book Two in the series, next month. This gives you a chance to read Book One before Book Two gets published. All the books can be read as standalone stories. The offer is limited to 50 copies. And it's for a limited time, only for one week or until all the copies are taken up. GET SADIE'S VOW HERE You'll find all the links for this episode plus the links for the giveaway in the show notes for this episode on www.thejoysofbingereading.com and remember, if you enjoy what you hear, post a review of the show on your favorite podcast host so that others get to hear about us as well. Things you'll hear about in the episode: How the story combines Cleopatra's legacy with a contemporary thriller involving Think Tank Special Ops leader Timothy Stryker and his wife Angie during an Italian holiday. How Avanti was influenced by popular fiction heroes like James Rollins, Steve Berry, Dan Brown, and Clive Cussler. Books Avanti recommends for thriller readers. (think Steve Berry and Gregg Hurwitz among others.) The power of propaganda down the centuries The party Cleopatra threw for Mark Anthony Was Cleopatra particularly beautiful? How Avanti made the change from Silicon Valley IY expert to best-selling international author. Links in the episode Steve Berry: The Columbus Affair, https://steveberry.org/books/the-columbus-affair/synopsis/ James Rollins: https://jamesrollins.com/ Clive Cussler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Cussler Dan Brown: https://danbrown.com/ Andy McDermott: http://www.andy-mcdermott.com/ Gregg Hurwitz: https://gregghurwitz.net/ JF Penn: https://jfpenn.com/ David Wood: https://www.davidwoodweb.com/ Dan Brown: https://danbrown.com/ Octavian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus Stacy Schiff: Clepatra, A Life; https://www.amazon.com/Cleopatra-Life-Stacy-Schiff/dp/0316001945 Deep Fake – Just how good is it? https://www.creativebloq.com/features/deepfake-examples Gal Gadot - May be doing a Cleopatra Bio pic; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gal_Gadot Where to find Avanti Online Website: https://www.avanticentrae.com/ On Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Avanti-Centrae/e/B07TJVDLM4/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/avanticentrae/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/avanti.centrae.author/ Note: What follows is only a partial transcript... hear the full episode on your favorite podcast provider. Introducing thriller author Avanti Centrae Jenny Wheeler: But now here's Avanti. Hello there, Avanti, and welcome to the show. It's so good to have you with us. Avanti Centrae - international best selling thriller author Avanti Centrae: Hey Jenny, thank you so much for having me. I love your podcast and recently got to listen to one with Lee Goldberg and I just couldn't be happier to be here with you. Jenny Wheeler: Thank you so much. Look, you are a number one international best-selling author who blends history, science, and suspense into pulse pounding action thrillers, rather similar to what Lee does. But today we are talking about your latest work, which is Cleopatra's Vendetta.
During a break in Britain's COVID lockdowns, English author Jo Frances Penn (https://jfpenn.com) set out alone from her home to walk the Pilgrim's Way from London to Canterbury Cathedral. An unlikely pilgrim, Jo had never before embarked on a multi-day hike. She joins author Kevin Donahue (https://www.sacredstepsbook.com) to discuss the power of overcoming her fears and the purpose she found in her journey. STREAM THE EPISODE ON YOUTUBE: http://youtube.com/sacredsteps DISCUSSIONS FROM THIS EPISODE:Britain's Pilgrims' WayBritain's Pilgrim Places Book GiveawayStream the Video Podcast on YouTube Connect on Facebook CONNECT WITH THE SHOW ONLINE:Podcast Homepage - sacredstepspodcast.comSacred Steps: A Pilgrimage JournalStream the Video Podcast on YouTube Connect on FacebookView on Instagram GUEST: Jo Frances PennJ.F.Penn is the Award-nominated, New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of the ARKANE thrillers and London Crime Thriller series as well as other dark fantasy stories. Her books weave together ancient artifacts, relics of power, international locations and adventure with an edge of the supernatural. Joanna lives in Bath, England and enjoys a nice G&T. Try a free thriller at: www.JFPenn.com/freeBOOKS: https://jfpenn.com/fiction/BLOG: https://www.booksandtravel.page/blog/PODCAST: https://www.booksandtravel.page/listen/ MEET THE HOST: Kevin DonahueHusband. Father. Backpacker. Pilgrim. Author.In 2019, Kevin Donahue set off from his home in the United States to begin a pilgrimage journey spanning both years and miles, walking across continents to the ancient end of the world, to kneel at the tombs of eight Apostles. Available for Easter 2023, Sacred Steps: A Pilgrimage Journal, is Kevin's first-hand account of the people and places found along the way to inspire questions and enlighten answers about faith, hope, and love. BOOK: Sacred Steps: A Pilgrimage JournalAvailable from print and digital booksellers for Easter 2023, Sacred Steps: A Pilgrimage Journal is the first-person account of a reluctant pilgrim navigating the eternal questions of faith while walking along the world's revered paths. The book follows one man's journey through Portugal and Spain on the Camino de Santiago, along the coast of the Pacific Ocean connecting California's Missions Trail, across England's ancient Pilgrims' Way, and onward towards Rome via Europe's forgotten footpaths on a journey of soulful discovery. More than a travelogue, Sacred Steps: A Pilgrimage Journal is a first-hand account of a pilgrim's journey and the people and places he finds to inspire questions and enlighten answers about faith, hope, and love.
In today's episode, I had the privilege of talking with Joanna Penn - host of The Creative Penn Podcast, fiction and nonfiction author, and futurist. We talked about her journey and where she envisions the indie author space heading as artificial intelligence starts to play more of a role in our author lives. Have a listen!
Y’all…Joanna Penn is in the house!! Need I say more? But seriously…who better to have as a guest host on our final episode of season one for this podcast than THE Joanna Penn, The Queen of all things creative! I’m sure you all know her as the creative genius behind The Creative Penn, but she’s also a thriller author in her own right (under JF Penn). And since I love reading (and writing) a good thriller, I knew there was no one better to feature on this last episode of the year than Joanna herself. So, sit back and enjoy this final episode of 2020, and we’ll see you all back in just a few weeks! In this episode, you will: Learn how suspense and thrillers are basically the same thing! Learn how to land on the best idea for your thriller novel Learn all the must-have elements of a killer thriller Learn how to write a satisfying ending for your thrillers! Hosts & Guests Host – Christina Kaye Guest Host – Joanna Penn To learn more about Joanna (JF Penn) and her books: https://jfpenn.com/ To work with Joanna and/or learn all about self-publishing your own novel: https://www.thecreativepenn.com/ To access the How to Write a Great Novel online course: https://bookboss-writingcourse-vault.teachable.com/purchase?product_id=2421304 To Contact Christina Kaye: info@writeyourbestbook.com www.writeyourbestbook.com For a Consultation with Christina Kaye https://calendly.com/writeyourbestbook/freecoachingsession To Follow Christina Kaye https://www.facebook.com/writeyourbestbook https://www.instagram.com/writeyourbestbook/ https://pinterest.com/xtinakayebooks022
You've heard mention of author brands, but what is it and how do you create one? In episode 75 of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast, Autumn and Jesper explain how important an author brand is. They also cover how, if you don't create one yourself, others will end up branding you anyway. Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday. SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST! Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you'll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going. Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion). Narrator (2s): You're listening to the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. In today's publishing landscape, you can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need an literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing. Join two best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them. Now on to the show with your hosts, Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt. Jesper (30s): Hello, I am Jesper and I am Autumn. This is episode 75 of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. And now you might be thinking that your books are the product and how this is what will make readers familiar with who you are and what you're writing. But the truth is that it's getting increasingly difficult to get noticed in today's internet landscape and a here, the creation of a brand could be helpful. So that's the topic for today, how to develop your author brand and we will also share some more words on that a bit later here. Autumn (1m 9s): Yes, I'm looking forward to it. I, I think Author branding, it surprised me the first time I heard about it and thought about it and like I'm not a brand, but it's actually really fun and it kind of creates some consistency and actually kind of helped focus my writing. So I'm looking forward to this one. Yeah, you were saying that because you do all the graphic designs. That's why you like it. That's true. I'm one of those strange people. If you asked what color is Monday, I would probably come up with a color for you. Autumn (1m 42s): So I like, I like colors, individual colors. Friday, Friday is an electric blue. Definitely electric. Yes. The last one was the reason for that. It was, it just something random You came up with it. It has an electric blue feel. To me it is, it's like an energizing, exciting kind of color. I like, you know, and that's a good, good energy. They are black or what? Autumn (2m 11s): Um, I dunno. I think it depends on the Monday, but you know, Mondays, now that I work full time from a home, they're probably bright yellow and it makes no difference. It's not a bright yellow. I'm happy that I do feel, I still feel like that, you know, get your nose back to the grindstone. It's Monday get work done. It doesn't matter. Right. Okay. So how are things on your side of the ocean? No, it's, it's good. Uh, I was thinking that maybe I could give a a new status update on the whole selling a house. Jesper (2m 46s): Yes. Soccer. Yeah. It's like a novel for us. It's a very, very long and very boring nonfiction, but it's a very boring reality show or something. Yeah. Well I talked about last week How we've had a, a couple who was out looking at the house twice now and worse, you're in quite some interest. And then last week I mentioned how the a, what does it cost? Jesper (3m 21s): Like the advisor or what the guy who, who is like advising them for the purchase. He was supposed to call it our real estate agent and um, he did that as well. So I talked to our real estate agent the other day and uh, it was a bit a bit weird because, and I think this, I don't know if this, I haven't talked to this advisor guy, so of course I am going off of hearsay and, and feelings here that I don't know if they are true or not, but it feels like he might be a bit of a smart kid, a smart guy, you know, a bit like, yeah, yeah, I'll do some quick deals here and whatnot. Jesper (3m 59s): I don't know. Because he was like, he told a, a a real estate agent at a w well we can, we can put in a price and then it was like 150,000 Danish crowns below the price that we have set at four. And keep in mind, we already reduced the price of a hundred K right? This is a 150 below 100 Kay. We already dropped it. A little insulting actually. Yes. So a real estate agent basically told him right away before he even talked to us, he said on the phone, you know what? Jesper (4m 32s): I can't, I can't give them this offer. This is ridiculous. Um, it's not a good deal. Right. I mean, and he basically just said, you know, as a, as a professional light, I can't even stand behind that alpha. I'm pretty intense. Yeah. And then the other guy, well he was talking like, well it'll be, it was just like covert 19 situation going on and our real estate and asked him what color would 19 see what do you mean? Jesper (5m 2s): Well, do you know the effect on house prices? And when he was saying, well, there is no effect on hush prices, not in this area, or at least I don't know about your area but not here. So, and then he started saying, well Am, well we have to start somewhere, right? Uh, well not 150. K. So he then, yeah, so there is a state and then called me and, and uh, we had a chat and he said, ah, so what do we want to do? And so I instructed him to, uh, after, after talking to my wife as well, I, I instructed him to go back and say, you know, come back with something serious and then we can talk. Jesper (5m 44s): I don't even want to come up with the counter off on this. This is just ridiculous. So, but I honestly think, I think they're quite interested. I think this is just playing games to see if we can get something because its been on the for a little while so maybe they were just trying to test the water. Yeah. But don't forget as well that she is six months pregnant. Right. And so either either you basically do something now write and write and our house was the only one that they've been looking at or you say, okay then we don't do anything now. Jesper (6m 17s): And then they have, they give birth first and then, but then you know before they get into a house it will, the kid will be a year old write. Do you really want to do that? Yeah. So I think they're quite hungry to be honest. Um, I don't know if you say hungry in, in English in a situation like this, but that was me translating from the concept comes across. I think they're very keen. They're very keen and it sounds that way. Yeah. So, um, so let, let's see what's going to happen. We haven't heard back since, uh, the other day was Sunday, uh, when I talked to him. Jesper (6m 50s): Uh, so I, I don't know what's going to happen. Oh, well, a good luck. I would love to hear this story. You don't have a happy ending and she'll be picking her nursery colors and everything else, but I do. Yes, they have to. That's it. Yeah. I would have been a little bit like, really? That's all. Yeah, it wasn't a bit annoying because when they were here looking at the houses there, there was never any talk about pricing or they never mentioned anything. When they will either in the first, the second visit they have about, uh, it didn't say two. Jesper (7m 24s): The real estate agent in something like, which would be normal, right. You say, you know, what, are they willing to negotiate or just asked a question. Nobody ever said anything. And then this guy comes in and then he starts doing this playing a game. And I almost have a feeling that maybe it's just him trying to play games. Maybe he just told them like, Hey, I'll get you a good price and blah, blah, blah. Some stupid sales talk. Right. Because this has also the guy who's got to sell their apartment. Right. So he probably liked, I'll get you a good price and then I can tell you the apartment as well. Jesper (7m 56s): But yeah, let's get those types are not just in the United States, I guess. No, no, no. I'm sure every nation have those types of people. But uh, and again, he might not be like that. It is, is just, I haven't talked to the guy, but it was just a feeling that I get from it. But I could be wrong. Of course. I needed to be careful what to say on a public Podcast if that's true. But at this time this was an air. It hopefully you have the offerings. Maybe. Let's see, let's see if what is happening. Jesper (8m 28s): Um, I also actually just wanted to mention because I posted it on Twitter, I didn't, have you noticed a movie, the platform on a Netflix? No, I have not seen that one. No, because it's quite, it's quite interesting. It was like a, it's a, I think a Spanish scifi kind of movie. Oh, that sounds good. But I want to, I want it to mention it because the premise of that movie is, it's just amazing. I mean I, I don't remember at least ever seeing it before. So it's basically like it's a prison that is in a tower. Jesper (8m 60s): So it was like extremely high tower. You learn those hundreds of floss in it. And then the prisoners, they are on a whatever floor number between one and the last one, which is the several hundreds. Um, and then everyday at the top from the top there is a platform lowered which is full with fruit. So it, it's not like, it's like almost like Michilan kind of it, you know, they have cooks preparing it so it's like excellent food and it gets lowered down to level one and they eat for a bit. Jesper (9m 36s): And then there's is, it feels like there was a timer on the platform or something, but then after it a little while, it goes down to level two and it goes, it keeps going down. So, and of course the people on the top floor, they just eat everything they can. Now of course, and every time it goes down there is less food on the platform. Oh, that sucks to be on the bottom. Exactly. And then the thing is that every, I don't remember now if it was every, I think it was every month or every week, one of the two, I don't remember anymore. Jesper (10m 7s): But they get basically moved around on the different floors. So you will be put to sleep after a week or month, one of the two. And then when you wake up again, you will be on a different floor. Gosh. So if you wake up on a low floor twice in a row, you're basically going to die from starvation. But if you come up to a high level, then you can eat a lot and then hopefully you can survive your next turn on lower level. If you end up down there, but it's just that that whole premise is so interesting. Jesper (10m 38s): And if of course it plays off all the, uh, like society will thinks about it, you know, if everybody just only ate what they could and is what it would be, there is enough food on the entire platform for everybody, but it is there. It depends on every one, only taking a plate and then letting it go. And if everyone does that, then there isn't enough for everybody. But of course nobody does that. So they're like, I'm on top now. I'm going to eat whatever I want. So I just, it's, it's so interesting that premise there is the end of the ending quite a lot. Jesper (11m 11s): And that was a very interesting, keep that in mind if I go and look it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They speak Spanish of course, but we actually launched a lot of Spanish. I'm learning my Spanish through a Spanish Netflix shows, so that's all right. Right, right. Okay. Yeah. Well here in the air in Denmark, which I also learned from a Twitter, well, he's in Europe in most, not in France, not in Germany, but otherwise it's quite common that we just a watch things with subtitles on us, what we do all the time. So we used to that. Jesper (11m 41s): Whereas I learned, I learned often from Twitter that people find it weird and I never understand why because that's since I was a child. That's how we do things. Because when you start tapping things, it's just at the same, no, it's not the same. It isn't. Autumn (11m 54s): I think we watched one episode of the rain In dubbed and it was a very different than watching it in Danish, the Danish in having it subtitled, that was fine. You just can't used to reading. I take in things better if I read them anyway. So, yeah. So to me it's fine. It's just bad if you're, if you're really, really tired and your eyes are tired, the last thing you want to do is read. So you watch something else. I, you know, Jesper (12m 19s): We do it on, on, on this show. So like the reign for example, I have a top titles on the issues as well because I've just, I'm so used to it, uh, that I just, I absorbed, I absorbed the information better when the subtitle's on. I understand. So how about you? Autumn (12m 36s): Oh, things are good. I've continued with my weekly planning and getting my life organized and I'm making progress in all fronts. So I have really nothing to report other than I've been a very good girl and I've gotten a ton of stuff done and I still have a ton more to do it. But yeah, I started to catch up. You watch out. Jesper (12m 56s): Well, I started to get emails now this is done. This is done. That's a nice, Autumn (13m 1s): So let's see. Hopefully going to continue. I have my week planned out in all my weekly goals and onward and upward is an old coworker used to say. So we are you doing good? Jesper (13m 13s): Oh, a week on the internet. Writing Fantasy Podcast we've received a request actually for a future podcast podcast topic from one of our patron supporters. Yes, we did. Yeah, that was pretty good. She wanted us to talk about when the ideal time would be to start working on sequels when your writing in a series. So I did ask her a bit of more details. Um, but that's something we'll put onto the list of future episodes there. Yeah, I was gonna say, I, I hopefully, especially since you've got some extra information, you can copy and paste it into our, our idea list that we keep. Jesper (13m 51s): So when we're deciding what to do, we're going to talk about in the future and picking things out. We can look at that one. That was a good one. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was good. So, and of course, uh, you know, by supporting on Patrion, you can also suggest possible topics for future episodes. Uh, but there is a lot more on patron that we do for a, there is, for example, a free access to one of our premium courses. There is a monthly Q and a where you can ask anything you want from Writing to marketing and publishing. And we also offer support as a free workbook, as a Christmas gift. Jesper (14m 24s): And also at the top level, there's even the possibility for mentoring sessions. So we try to offer a lot of value in return for your support. In truth recording the podcast episodes every week, quite a lot of the work. So any support we can get, even if it's just a single dollar a month, is really helpful and it keeps us committed to to keep going here. So if you haven't checked out patron or Please, Autumn (14m 52s): Follow the link in the show notes and check it out and we would really, really appreciate it. And so yes, especially since one of our goals on there is to have someone go through our new transcripts that come out with each podcast. Oh my goodness. Some of the errors come out of it wasn't what it is. Yes, bro. And I am awesome instead of on the wall. I'm like, wow, I'm just going to go buy. Awesome from now on. Yeah. Well we do do a light edit out of the, of those types of errors on the script that comes out. Autumn (15m 26s): So a, I think we talked about last week that we've started adding the entire transcript of the podcast on every episode. So we do a light edit on it, but I can not tell you how funny it is. The what turns out in that light edit of, of what the AI comes up with that it thinks you were saying sometimes. It's just so funny. It's fantastic. Yeah, it at least cracks us up, but it would be so nice to have. So it didn't do it a little bit more in depth at it because you know it just looking at it and it, it was totally skipping one of us talking and other stuff. Autumn (15m 59s): I was just very frustrated with it. But anyway, we won't go there and good news. We actually, just before wrapping this up and starting this podcast, we just finished a Q and a session with our new character development students and that was awesome. That was awesome. That was legitimately Oh, lot of fun. And I was a nice way before the, the Q and a session. James' one of the students actually emailed us and just says, you know, he's looking forward to meeting us face to face and thanks for these opportunities. Uh, your work with to help authors of all over the world is appreciated, at least by myself. Autumn (16m 34s): And I'm quite certain that with Benny who mirror my sentiments and that's just like, I mean, we don't need to hear back from people, but darn it. That's awesome. It really is why we do it as to those little tidbits to knowing we're making a difference for other authors and eventually other readers. Yeah, it did. It really makes a, it makes a difference obviously. Um, so thank you so much for the kind a note. Thank you James Author brands. I'm still excited about the restaurant. Jesper (17m 7s): Yeah. What is now Author Brand uh, I found actually a on the internet of things, I found a, I found a quote earlier today from Jeff Bezos, which I think actually sums it up quite nice. Oh, that's good. So it goes like this quote a brand is what other people say about you when your not in the room and quote. I like that Jeff Bezos with will come up with that one. That is a pretty good definition of what you or your personal brand is otherwise known as gossip right now. Jesper (17m 47s): But, I think that the takeaway there that Even if you're not creating your own brand, you still going to have one because people will have an opinion about you. So the alternative as a much better meaning that creating your own brand, well that's preferable over them making the Brand for you. Autumn (18m 7s): True. Ahh, that's a good way of putting it. Yeah. But it definitely, yeah, you definitely want to be in charge of what people are saying about you and not just reacting to what you know, you know, what are people are saying, you definitely need to consider these things when you're doing, I mean this is why we talk about quality, making sure you have edits and things like that because technically, you know, making sure your writing is clean and quality in a full error, free as part of your brand, but that's not the only a part of your brand. Autumn (18m 40s): You want to be a little more in charge of it than that. Jesper (18m 44s): Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, whether we like it or not, uh, as authors, we are selling ourselves. Right. So that also means that uh, you need a brand. Autumn (18m 55s): Yes. And I think, I mean, we're dovetailing this right after an episode, we're talking about pen names with a Kiersten Ollifont and that is, yeah, I mean that's another thing. Your, each of your pen names is also a brand and that would be a reason to change her name is because there is a shift to your brand. You know, you want to be known as something else, whether it's, you know, you're one brand is erotica and your other brand is a children's Christian fiction. You wanna keep those two brands separated. Autumn (19m 25s): That's an extreme example. But I would not be surprised actually if there's someone out there doing both. Jesper (19m 32s): No. So what do we need when we try to create an author brand? What, what, what things do we need for it? Um, I try to list out a few things that I was thinking about. So basically when you start to think about your brand, um, I think you need to look at your show that you are writing in and you need to think about your target reader and then you need to think about what it is that you making that is making you unique. Jesper (20m 4s): So why is it, for example, in our case you were writing Fantasy. So why is it that your target readers should read your Fantasy book instead of another Fantasy book? Autumn (20m 16s): Right. I mean, to me it helps if you haven't developed your author brand yet, but you have written a few books. One of the first places to look for ideas on what your author brand might be is actually in your reviews. And if you start saying a common theme of like exciting or a really detailed characters or a fast paced, when you start seeing things like that, that's probably a, a, a good clear cut of maybe what your author brand is. Autumn (20m 47s): But you know, you can also think about that from the get go and a control it as your writing and releasing your book's. But there's definitely a, to me, I love mining through my reviews and seeing what people have picked up because sometimes they have an insight that you didn't realize that they were talking about. Jesper (21m 9s): Yeah. So I w w actually when preparing for this a session, I try to list out a few different things that Am that I think is important when it comes to your brand and what you could be developing in relation to that. So I don't have a particular audit, uh, audit, Lisa, and I think we can sort of just jump around as a, as we want. Excellent. But, um, I dunno, do you, do you have a place where you would like to start now you go first and Am I will add to it as I usually do. Jesper (21m 42s): Okay. So I think as an umbrella thing across all of the things that I'm gonna mention here, we could say like the three inputs that I just mentioned. So the genre, your target reader and what makes you unique. You used your answers to those questions to influence the, your decision on what kind of colors you're gonna use, what fonts you're gonna use, what images you're going to use, and then you use those consistently across the different things that we are going to talk about here. Jesper (22m 14s): That's sort of the underlying mentality around this. It is Autumn (22m 18s): It really going to inform your marketing because is going to create a consistency in those colors and those fonts. And just the message at this is the type of Fantasy or fiction or whatever your Writing that you stand for it. And if you open up any of your books, it's going to be right there, you know, is going to be for a friend's centered. So it's a, it gives you a whole focus of the theme, which is kind of, Jesper (22m 46s): Yes. So the first thing on the list here that I created was a logo. Uh, and well actually we've started developing or talking at least about a logo for our joint fiction as well, haven't we? Yes we have. And yeah, it's on my to do list cause we haven't, well we haven't even started writing there, but I want to have that logo before we get the website get Writing. Yeah. So of course the logo can be used for different things. I mean you could, uh, you could put them on the book cover, uh, like our plan is to do that, to make, to make the Brand and clear to readers that these are the same books because a, you know, as time goes by and there'll be more and more books in this world, then the logo will be the one that joins them all together to show that this is the same. Jesper (23m 34s): Um, while at the same world and the same, not the same story. I guess that's wrong to say, but at least to set in the same setting a of course if you are just writing a single trilogy, then you could just make sure that each of the covers are looking similarly enough that people can see that these belongs together. But if you write a lot of different books in the same setting like we plan to do, then a logo could be the one that ties them together. Jesper (24m 4s): But otherwise the use of a logo is good for, you know, of course your social media profile Autumn (24m 10s): And uh, and on your website, and I mean, cause there's a few different layers there of logos. You can have your series logo, your book logo. And then I have a personal logo for my website, which is under Autumn Writing. So I actually tweaked it over the years cause I realized the original one I had to kind of a book in some kind of like triaged thing. Hey Autumn writer, hello. But I realized I write Fantasy when you look at it, it doesn't say exciting Phil Fantasy and that's what I write. Autumn (24m 41s): I mean most of my readers know that, you know, there is the characters, another things, but I write fast paced Fantasy it's pretty much a page Turner. It's more like the thriller version of Fantasy. So I recently like you to think, I mean to me recently, like with in the last two years I tweaked and changed my logo, my personal logo. So that's another place where you use it though. I mean I use it Am it's a logo for who I am. It's an all my books that I published. There is a little circle logo that links to my website and it creates consistency. You land on that website, you know in your honor, one of my books and then each of the series also has individual logos that are also exciting. Autumn (25m 20s): But it's a good way of tying your series together. Jesper (25m 23s): Yeah, absolutely. In and of course if there is, just as you said that there's some thinking behind what kind of images and fonts and all that, but do you use a Writing Fantasy well that in a medieval setting that will, that that's different imagery and and fonts and colors. Then if you were writing, I don't know, a modern thriller, right. What do those things are different so and that should inform and influence you are a logo design Autumn (25m 53s): Definitely. Jesper (25m 55s): Okay. And we talked a bit about website down. I feel like that that's sort of your area Autumn too. Maybe you can say a bit about websites. Autumn (26m 1s): Absolutely. So you know, having just talked to Kirsten, she feels, she feels that the websites are kind of going by the wayside or at least the, the big ones with blogposts and everything else. But I do think there's still a landing page. Most authors, maybe they're not looking you up, maybe they're looking you up more on Amazon than they are for your own website. But since we do sell books off of our website and if you're going to sell like signed copies, paperbacks or hardbacks off of your website, you want to have a website and so their you create, you take those same colors, you have a color scheme, there is some, usually five colors is what you want for our website. Autumn (26m 40s): And there is some great tips and techniques if you do website on how to land on those colors, which is a whole science of itself. But then you use your fonts. Do you use your logo? You keep that. Like I said, my logo, who I am and what kind of books I write is more front and centered. Then the individual books I have because I want it to be under my name because I do write in different genres. As you noticed from the previous podcast, talking to Kiersten, I write in different genres, but I did not choose a pen name. Autumn (27m 12s): So I chose that. I chose to stay under myself on a bird because I felt it still fell underneath my Brand. And so that's one of those important questions to ask yourself. And that's why I have just one website that lists all my books. Jesper (27m 31s): Yeah. Ideally, uh, because I also previously before Autumn and I started working together, I wrote nonfiction. So ideally I should have had two different, almost, I probably almost two different, um, you know, pen name for it because it's just a real weird mixture. So you have Fantasy fiction and then you have some Author related nonfiction books for example. But that doesn't tie into it at all. Uh, but at that point in time I just felt like a second pen name and, and then a whole second brand and a second um, online presence and all that. Jesper (28m 5s): It was too much to manage. So I did it all on my own name a that's what I've done. But it's not ideal for sure. Autumn (28m 12s): No, we could have been like Joanna Penn and she has her fiction under JF Penn. I mean it is a tongue in the cheek, just a little indicator saying Hey this is a different version of me and that's sort of what the pen name, you know, some of them you want to keep completely separate like Kiersten has her as you know, its written in her profile. She is honest, these are different ones but she has way different names under her different pen names. So you know, it each happens but each time you choose a pen name you're doing it for a reason. Autumn (28m 44s): Whether it's just a nod to the other part of who you are and what you're selling or a totally, you know, making it fit. She has one that really fits the urban fantasy that she is writing. And so you know what it is kinda the fun thing about a pen name. If you don't think your name really fits, it's John Smith and you're trying to write cozy mysteries. Am I want to go do something a little more cozy. Jesper (29m 9s): Yeah. And that's it. But it's funny because that she, that you said that she said that about websites because we talked slider, we touched slightly upon it in a past episode as well where we had slight different views. You and I are on websites and a need for them if of course, if we disregard, uh, the need to sell directly because if you need to do that and it's a given that you need a website. But I remember in a past episode that I said that in principle you could just create a landing page if you're, for example, if you use convert kit or something like that, they give you the possibility to, to create a landing page and, and they will host it for you and you could in principle just create that so that you can have a way to collect email addresses. Jesper (29m 54s): Yeah, and that's it. Then of course it is. It is a very light approach. I understand it, but I do agree with her thinking that I don't think the websites is a necessity than it used to be. I, Autumn (30m 10s): I can, especially if you're running multiple genres and multiple pen names, I think for like her newer one, she literally has a, she bought the URL with the name, the brand name, her Author name, her pen name, and she has a redirect to a landing page and two sign up and see her books. That's it. And so yet you, you really can't do that. But again, she does still have a presence and she did go through the effort of buying the URL to no one could buy it out from under. So there's still some tech savvy, but that is one of those big things. Autumn (30m 42s): I mean, and speaking of a website, so your brand, whatever that name is, Am whether it is Author so and so, or just the name that is part of your brand and you should own that. So go buy that URL. It's one of the things she checked before she was creating these pen names as she would Google it and see if the URL is free. You see you. If anyone else was using it, she wanted to make sure it was very, because she was specifically choosing a brand. And those are the things you want to check on as you're settling on a brand. Autumn (31m 13s): If you're creating something and not just you know, going with what you were born with. Jesper (31m 18s): That's why I'm so happy that we snatched up and writing and reading fantasy.com before we even knew what we were gonna use it for it. It is. It's a very good one. Yeah. And we have a use for it now in the future. So it was good that we snapped up that one. Autumn (31m 33s): Yeah. So heck, I still remember, I was so amazed that it was free. I'm still amazed. Am Writing Fantasy was free when I thought of it because I was literally on a three or four day hike on the Appalachian trail and I think I thought of it on day one. I'm like, Oh, there's no way that that one's still available. And four days later it was first thing I did when I got off the trail was Google and going, Oh, that's it. It was Jesper (31m 56s): Mine. He bought it. And then we bought Am Writing Fantasy when we were at it as well. So that was good. Very good. Okay. But that's slightly off topic, bringing it back. Uh, the next element to the Author brand is the picture of yourself. Um, and again, here, I would say make sure that a picture of yourself is on Brand, meaning that, uh, there is a difference between, you know, you're looking serious versus someone who writes humor. Jesper (32m 26s): Because if you are writing more humoristic novels, perhaps a bit more of a funny picture. I sat that in quotation marks there, but it's a bit more of a funny picture. It might be a better smiling and laughing. And Autumn (32m 40s): This is another one where I get in, I remember very clearly from Joanna Penn when she wrote a, um, it was something on her pen name or just she was going to contracting her to different brands and she showed her one image and now I can't remember if it was the fiction or the nonfiction, but one of them is black and white. It's almost the exact same picture. But she actually had one black and white because it just fits the genre and resonated better with readers. And I thought, well that's just interesting to go all the way down to the color of the picture. Autumn (33m 10s): But I mean, I totally agree. And this is one where I see a lot of people say, you know, you need a professional Author image. And so I have this picture. You often see the one's that, you know, the clean background in the standing there. And maybe the half smile or as a holding one of your books and it has a post to it. And to me those come off as so standoffish and snotty. I can't help it. And occasionally you need to get some more, you know, the warmth in the eyes and more happy ones. But if you ever look at my Author image, I am holding a four leaf Clover and I'm actually a little out of focus. Autumn (33m 42s): It's a four leaf Clover that's InFocus and there's an amazing Alaskan mountain background behind me cause I was traveling when we took it. And by the way, yes, I'm just really good at finding four leaf clovers. That's just me. But um, I, I think some people, I understand the idea of this is professional and we should take it seriously. But I also think if it's part of your brand that you are very open and out there and energetic or whatever that is, there's no problem with that coming through. I mean, you probably don't want one of your like mother kissing you on the cheek or something, but you can choose, you can choose an Author image that's a little more fun than They, you know, went to a studio and took a set PO's. Autumn (34m 29s): But that's my opinion. I know some people totally disagree with me. Jesper (34m 32s): No, but I think it's important that the picture comes off naturally. Uh, you know what? It looks very natural so that you can build that connection with the reader because pictures are doing that very well. There's a reason why you use pictures is because it builds a connection with people. So it has to look natural. But I would still say, unless you are a very good at it, don't take a selfie. No, that's not true. That's not good. Um, I am a professional photographer should also be able to help you in taking a picture that does not look like you're posting, that they can make it look so to you. Jesper (35m 9s): Bring you a natural or whatever it's called. You're on your natural self authentic self to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Autumn (35m 17s): Marin did it with a professional photographer. So I have some, you know. Jesper (35m 21s): Oh you are lucky. I know you got some luck there. So yeah, here's my personal paparazzi, so I'm good. Yeah, that's good. But I do some very quick internet search before this episode. Uh, so it's not very specific here but or scientific at all. But I think you can get a picture taking price for some where between a hundred and $200 wouldn't you agree? Autumn (35m 44s): I would agree. I would think if you're going to get a whole series, it might be up to 350 but in general for just a few photos or something. If you go head shots from a local photographer, and especially like I said, some of them are willing to go outside versus being in a studio or something like that. You should be able to find someone who can give you a nice library photo or something. Or maybe even on your own house if you have a nice bookcase or something, it gets a little bit of an author image. Jesper (36m 13s): OK. So the next set piece or building block I have here for your author brand is then something that we actually talk about in the self publishing success course, that we're, there's a free course that we are planning to release later this year. But in that course we talk about creating your why. So this is basically a one sentence statement demonstrating why you write what you do. And uh, in autumn in my case, we write Fantasy because we believe that human beings evolve and heal themselves through stories. Jesper (36m 52s): So in short, our why we summed it up with the following sentence, quote stories makes the world a better place. Very long quote. No, but that's the point, right? It is to be simple and easy, very short. Uh, and I'm pretty happy with what we came up with there. What am I think that's good. Autumn (37m 13s): No, I agree. And I think it really sums up the many layers. There's many, many layers to it. And so that's kind of the fun of it. You can, obviously we're not stuck with one type of image or one type of, you know, reaching reader. We can play with the different ways of why we think it's important. And that's part of the brand though. I mean, it's a multi-tiered approach, but that's always the fun. Jesper (37m 38s): Yeah. And it's an easy thing to communicate with a single sentence like that, uh, on, you know, Twitter profile on social media or on also on our website of course. But it's, it's something that you can just glance over a word with your eyes and you already understand what it is. Right? You don't have to read like full paragraphs explaining why I think Fantasy is a great young round, blah, blah, blah. It was just stories makes the world a better place. Autumn (38m 4s): Yeah. And it's at the beginning to, in many ways it's the end of your elevator speech. It's wonderful to have that so that when someone asks you, you know, a, why do you write a, what do you write? You could say, this is why I do this and you have confidence in is wonderful. Jesper (38m 21s): Yeah. And the other thing is that this ties back to what we talked about in the beginning about what makes you unique. So your Y is unique to you. Umm, so it sets you apart instantly there on why it is that your and Autumn (38m 36s): Why, why is Fantasy just younger dead, you're writing for example, right? I mean, you answered to those kinds of questions. Well, nobody else can answer the questions like you can, let's right. And that's why it is sort of the core of your brand. And it's a great tip and a great way to start exploring, you know, why this is going to be your brand and why your writing in this and being in control of it instead of, you know, going in and waiting and seeing what other people say about you. Yeah. Autumn (39m 6s): So I have a question here at the end of my list. Uh, but before I asked that question, is there anything else that ties in with Author Author branding that we have missed or I have missed your Autumn in my list. I don't think so. I just want to tell you, let people know that just because you have a brand and maybe have a color scheme, that doesn't mean like all your book covers are going to look alike or things like that. You can obviously use a logo or a series logo, that's all fine, but you're still going to have a unique covers. Autumn (39m 40s): You're not pigeonholing yourself. You kind of, you know, creating a theme. You're, you are a certain set and you're going to stay within those bounds, but your books themselves or going to speak for themselves and so the covers should speak for themselves. You're still free to be creative and concepts there. It's just that there is a theme underlying neat all you're writing in why you write and sort of who you are and some people I was talking about authentic self earlier in authenticity has been a huge movement even on Instagram that people want to connect to an authentic person and I get a lot of questions on, well, if you're portraying this Brand, that's not really who you are, but it should be a sliver of who you are. Autumn (40m 25s): I've always looked at it like when you're with your mom, your a slightly different person than when we used to do your boss. If you don't play with their siblings versus you know your aunt or uncle there is different. Yeah, it's different versions of you, but you're a brand is still a part of you. It should feel comfortable. You shouldn't be making up something and you should not hate this other brands that you are creating. It should be true to you, but it's just a small, it's just a different aspect. Is the pieces that you put forward and you say, this is who I am as a writer and this is what I stand for. Autumn (40m 59s): Not this is this fake person that I'm pretending to be when I'm writing. No, of course not. Okay, so you ready for a question? Autumn well, we just do the character development Q and a for over an hour or so. I can do it. One more question. Okay. How important is an Author Brand really? Oh, that's a good question. How important is it? I would say if you are going to be a professional author that you are going to do this because you want to make it a that you want to maybe make a living off of it and you're really going to go all in. Autumn (41m 40s): It is integral. If you are just playing around with Writing, it's a hobby and you, you know, you're not really in love with it. It's just something you're trying out. Yeah, it still took it. I would still ask people to take it seriously. I have recently met someone, I was doing some cover work and I was trying to investigate this author and she had no pen names, but almost every single book she had uploaded was linked to a different Amazon author profile. Autumn (42m 10s): Like she created multiple ones and that's just confusing. I I, yeah, it was really, really surprised and it was all just different variations, like a neat her name with a period, her name without a period, her full name or initial knows it was seriously. So I don't do that to take your brand seriously enough that you're like on the same Amazon, Oh, I can't even imagine what her KDP dashboard bustle looked like. Make sure you're on the same dashboard. You've got the same author name a be at least that serious no matter how much of a hobby that you're just doing one book and it's just so you can give it to your nieces and nephews before you die. Autumn (42m 49s): You know it still a legacy. It's still a brand. Take it seriously. Yeah. I think the most common objection that I bumped into when I, when we talk about Author brands is like, well Author or brands are things For last corporation's and we were just authors. We don't, we don't need a brand. And I can sort of understand the thinking behind that argument, but you are still selling products as a, as an author, you know in, in this case we're selling books, but it's a product that we're selling and Jesper (43m 27s): If we then talking about how important is North of Brand really, I mean it's not like it's going to revolutionize your book sales. All of a sudden that you can earn millions because you created this awesome brand as an immediate is great. If you can create an excellent brand but it's not going to earn you're a ton of money that that's not the point. I think that the main point here is that if you buy your branding can get across to somebody when they first come across you on the internet where there is a million of different books available available to them and they come across you and if they almost at a glance can get an impression of, okay, this has a certain, let's say Fantasy feel to it. Jesper (44m 12s): I like the image. Um, maybe there is a dragon crawling between letters or something, I don't know. But you know, it does something that it just leaves a positive impression on the reader's as they just come across you at the first time. I didn't. Of course the idea is that over time it should accumulate so that it brings more and more people in who had an interested in your writing and they'll give you a book, a chance because they lied, lied, like the branding that you have created around it. And they'll give it a chance and then to read your book and some of them will love it and they'll go on to read other books and so forth. Jesper (44m 46s): So it's more like, I probably wouldn't even call it a cornerstone. In your publishing a part of, of your business, Autumn (44m 59s): What is the foundation stone? Yeah. Maybe for this Jesper (45m 5s): It's something like, I would say like you could live without it, but it just makes a difference too. Give a good impression. And when you're running a business like we are when we are Autumn (45m 13s): Authors, why wouldn't you want to leave a good impression? I guess that's, that's the best way I could phrase it. So I think, and I think that it works and to me it's if you as an author, R R taking it serious are maybe you are trying to get into marketing and you just feel a little lost. Creating a brand really helps give you a focus in a theme and a message and suddenly all of those things that you're struggling with and trying to put together and what kind of images and what kind of quotes and what am I talking about. Autumn (45m 44s): You suddenly go, Oh my theme is fast paced Fantasy so I'm going to find action scenes or my theme is really nuanced characters or a romance or emotions. Some of the, you know what scenes and quotes to go get a, you know, what's important to you know, what your next book you are going to make sure it has those, it kinda makes a lot of stuff that are nebulous and you're kind of don't even realize you're struggling with click into place and you're like, ah, this works. This is what I'm going to do. And if so for that reason I would say, you know, you start a brand. Autumn (46m 18s): Just so you can kind of concentrate and figure out some of these little parts of yourself in your marketing, in your, you know, how you, you're reaching the readers you're trying to reach. For Jesper (46m 31s): Yeah. So I think Author branding helps you communicate about yourself and make that personal connection with the readers. And a brand will emerge whether you want it or not. You might as well put yourself in the driving seat there and, uh, decide what your branding will be about. So next Monday we will share 10 things that makes for great hero. So what that should prove. Jesper (47m 2s): Very interesting. Narrator (47m 5s): If you liked what you just heard, there is a few things you can do to support the Am Writing Fantasy podcast. Please tell a fellow Author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join Autumn and Jesper on patreon.com/am Writing Fantasy for as little as a dollar a month, you'll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going. Stay safe out there and see you next Monday.
In episode 66 of the Am Writing Fantasy podcast, Jesper is joined by one of the most influential voices within the indie-author space. That's Joanna Penn. Joanna and Jesper discuss whether you should be publishing your books wide or choose exclusivity with Amazon (Kindle Unlimited). They also cover multiple streams of income. Hosting author events. How to manage a busy work schedule and whether or not authors should be paying attention to future tech, such as virtual reality and augmented reality. You can find out about Joanna Penn here: https://www.thecreativepenn.com/podcasts/ https://www.booksandtravel.page/listen/ https://twitter.com/thecreativepenn Tune in for new episodes EVERY single Monday. SUPPORT THE AM WRITING FANTASY PODCAST! Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. Join us at www.patreon.com/AmWritingFantasy. For as little as a dollar a month, you'll get awesome rewards and keep the Am Writing Fantasy podcast going. Read the full transcript below. (Please note that it's automatically generated and while the AI is super cool, it isn't perfect. There may be misspellings or incorrect words on occasion). Narrator (2s): You're listening to the amwritingfantasy podcast. In today's publishing landscape, you can reach fans all over the world. Query letters are a thing of the past. You don't even need a literary agent. There is nothing standing in the way of making a living from writing join to best selling authors who have self published more than 20 books between them. Now onto the show with your hosts, Autumn Birt and Jesper Schmidt. Jesper (30s): Hello, I am Jesper and this is episode 66 of the amwritingfantasy podcast. So while autumn is taken care of some other stuff today, I'm extremely pleased to be joined by probably one of the most influential voices in the indie author space. So I'm going to have a very interesting chat with Joanna Penn and a while we start out by talking about extra activity versus going wide. I'll also try to ask Joanna some questions that I at least hope she hasn't heard a million times before, but we'll see how it goes. Um, chances are that you've heard you Anna, on other podcasts before. So I, so I want to see if I can take the conversation in a slightly different direction. That than normal, but we'll see how that goes. For those of you who might not know Joanna I can let you know that she's an award nominated New York times and us a two day bestselling author and Joanna writes thrillers under JF Penn and have written more than 30 books and sold over half a million bucks in 84 countries. And I think there's probably more than that by now and five languages. So she is a very big advocate of selling your books wide rather than being exclusive to Amazon. And she regularly advises authors on topics within self-publishing through her very successful podcast, the creative Penn podcast. So I honestly tried to reduce that introduction as much as I could do. I know, but the, but there's so much to say, so I didn't know where to stop, but welcome to the amwritingfantasy podcast. Joanna (2m 2s): Hello. Thanks for having me. Yes. For and yeah, I realized I've been going for more than a decade now in this, in these phase, so it can be difficult to encapsulate, but I'm really happy to be on the show today and answer any questions you have. Jesper (2m 15s): Yeah, that's very good. I don't know, maybe just to start off softly here, is there anything maybe you could share about yourself or what you're doing at the moment that I didn't quite touch upon there in the intro? Joanna (2m 26s): Uh, yeah. Well I think what's interesting, well, might might be interesting to the listeners. I mean, you have the amwritingfantasy podcast and in fact, I got up this morning and went to my writing cafe and wrote 2000 words on my neck fantasy novel. So I am a fantasy writer. I do like fantasy maps as, as you do. And so I might in the third in my Matt Walker trilogy, which is a kind of dark fantasy split world am portal fantasy I think sometimes they're called. Uh, and then my other self, uh, as Joanna Penn, and I'm this week I have a launch for audio for, which is about podcasting and audio books and voice technologies and the AI and voice and that kind of thing. So one of the important parts of me is the own quite a split personality, you know, faced a similar to you. I mean you do the same thing. You write fiction, nonfiction. Um, and I write in lots of other genres. So I think that's what I'm working on them. Well, what I'm always working on is I'm always trying to balance my affection and my nonfiction, which is a challenge for many writers. Jesper (3m 28s): Oh yes. I think I'm going to ask you a bit more about that today as well. That balance part that's a, that is difficult. But, uh, yeah, I once again at least thank you for, for joining today and because one of the things that I initially thought about when, when we wanted to invite you onto the podcast, am wants the whole topic about being wide versus being exclusive to Amazon, meaning publishing within Kindle unlimited. Uh, and I do personally know why you think it's better to be white. And I agree with your points of view on that, but, uh, but I think it's, it's sort of a topic that bears repeating. Uh, and it's quite important too to think about those things when people, I publishing whether or not you want to publish wide or you want to be exclusive to Amazon, but, but maybe you could just talk us through your line of thinking when it comes to being white versus being exclusive. Joanna (4m 24s): Yeah, sure. Well, there's a few things. First of all, there is a choice on every book and every format. So you just mentioned Kindle unlimited so that's eBooks specifically within the markets that have Kindle unlimited, which is a very small part of the world and a very small part of the publishing EK system. Um, so even if you want to be on K you for your eBooks, you can still go wide with print and audio, which we'll talk about in a minute. Or you could go exclusive with a series and then go wide with other books. Um, all in one John HRA or an author name. So there are so many different variations of what white and exclusive means. I want to be clear up front. The second thing is that because I've been publishing independently since before there was even a Kindle. Uh, so you know, I've been, when did I start writing 2006 and I published in 2008. It wasn't till 2010, the international Kindle came along. So I basically started public self publishing when eBooks were just kind of starting out, moving from downloadable PDFs from websites to the reader. And uh, there was no Kindle unlimited till, I think it was 2014. Am was when it started out. KDP select started out. So I might be wrong on the dates, but it was certainly a number of years after I started publishing or I was, uh, I'm obviously English and um, I was living in Australia at the time. So even when Americans could publish within the K you ecosystem, the Kindle ecosystem, those of us who were international could not, and it's still not open to everyone. So this is the first thing. I mean there are listening to this show potentially all over the world and my podcast has been downloaded in over 220 country, which I think is pretty much everywhere. See what we've got to remember is when you're on the internet, whether it's podcasting or books or whatever, you have to think that there are people who would like to buy your books all over the world. And as you mentioned, um, I haven't fact now sold books in 134 countries, which is kind of crazy. So this is my perspective as an international author. What I feel is so often the self publishing community is dominated by American voices. And American America is the biggest market for sure on its own. But if you put everything else together, everything else is much, much bigger. And we barely even begun the digital transformation in most countries. So I have this longterm view. I have this international view. I also have a multifaceted view, I guess because I have so many books. I know you, you and autumn have a lot of books as well. So I do actually have a couple of books in Kindle unlimited, for German. So I have three German books they are in K because I have no ability really to market in German. Um, and in fact, I just put an audio book live today in German because I have no other way of marketing those. I've decided to use Kindle unlimited and ACX for audible. Um, specifically in order to use the marketing that I need for a market, I have no other way of reaching. Whereas for English language, I have a podcast. I have a website or use social media, I can reach a market globally through other means. So there is so many things to think about when it comes to exclusivity versus white. And look if, if, if someone listening, if you're just starting out, if you only have one book and you're putting it out in e-book, then sure, go in. K you not a problem because there's a lot of things to consider when you're first starting out and then, cause it's only a 90 day, you know, turnover, you could change your mind later on and go wide later on. Um, but what I would say is for print, print is very interesting because KDP print is brilliant. You can sell your book on Amazon stores, but you won't get into libraries. You won't get into bookstores, you won't get into universities. You you know, there's a lot of things you can't do if you publish print on Amazon only. So I recommend Ingram spark for print and then for with KDP print plus Ingram spark. Um, and then for audio, um, I use ACX for they, um, you know, the audible market and then I use find a way voices again for library EK systems and for um, you know, Google play for Scribd for all these places where people are getting their audio now. So I hope that gives you some sort of facets of the different, uh, parts of, of wide versus exclusive. Jesper (8m 51s): Yeah, absolutely. And I think there is a good point buried there as well in the sense that it's not an, it's not a forevermore decision when you decide, for example, if you put a book into Kindle unlimited it can be a per book decision as well. You know, it's, it's not like you can just pull it up three months later. So maybe there is also a point around not overthinking it in that sense that, uh, if you want to test it out the waters for a while there, you could do but do so, but at the same time, wouldn't you also say that those people who read books in a subscription systems like Kindle unlimited are not necessarily kind of the same people who buy books? So if you're building an audience purely for example, in co co Kindle unlimited and then you pull them wide afterwards, you're starting a bit over in building an audience wide, wouldn't you say? So? Joanna (9m 41s): Yes. But then I think as we, as our author career develops, I think we're always building new audiences. So, um, you know, I know plenty of authors who go into K you for, you know, a first year and then take the whole series wide, for example. And, and this is, you know, someone like Lindsey broker. He's one of the biggest in the fantasy authors. Uh, you know, but she writes a book a month, whereas I'm kind of, I write a couple of books a year. In fact, I only white one fantasy book a year. So that's hard to do when you're not someone who puts a lot of books out. But the biggest difference for those of us who would do this for a career and a new author is that a new author literally, genuinely has one book. Um, or maybe they have a couple of books if they've held onto some things. So I do recommend that people start with getting to grips with one EK system and then moving into other things later for eBooks. But again, I really want to reiterate, especially with nonfiction, you and I both write nonfiction as well. Um, nonfiction is a very print heavy and very audio heavy market. Um, and in fact fantasy books if especially if they're long fantasy books or if you do a fantasy audio book box that you can get really good sales in audio as well. So I do, what I really want to emphasize is the idea of having multiple formats as well as multiple stores, multiple countries. So if you think about a business plan that is the kind of scaling that you want to do over time and as for different kinds of readers. I agree with you. I'm someone who buys books on the Kindle, but what we're seeing with digital, with audio as well as eBooks is a move to more and more subscription services. So I mentioned script for example, which is growing fast in am audio books. Obviously it's not just audible at storytell, it's all these different types of subscription services. So I don't think we're stopping the subscription service anytime scene. I think what I want is to say I'd rather be on every subscription service, so I would go, I have nothing, no issues with K you I have an issue with exclusivity. Jesper (11m 43s): Yeah, yeah. I was actually just about to say the same thing. For example, Kobo plus where I don't have any problem with their subscription model there because they don't demand you to be exclusive with that. That's the part that I also personally don't like. Um, and also Amazon making well as authors, our income is the books that were selling unless we're doing other things as well. But, but at least from a starting point that that's the income we building and being a hundred percent dependent on Amazon deciding something else tomorrow than they did today. I don't know. I just does not feel good to me. Joanna (12m 16s): No, exactly. I'm, I'm the same as you as you know. Jesper (12m 20s): Yeah. But maybe, uh, that moves us quite nicely into, into another part of the same conversation because as authors of course we are, as we just said, we are building an income based on book sales. Um, but one thing is that a book can be several different things like, like you just talked about am audio books is, it's another format. Maybe there is, um, foreign rights or whatnot. But there's also other things you can do as, as, as an author. I mean, of course am both you and myself and autumn also run some ortho courses and that sort of thing. So what I'm getting into is sort of multiple streams of income that you can make a living from rather than being dependent on a single sole income. S for example, eBooks or whatever we want to say. But I was wondering if we are thinking about somebody who wants to build a full time income, is it, or maybe if there is no difference here, but that's my question. Right? Would you recommend that people focus on like a few well earning streams of income and then put all the, you know, marketing focus and all their money in, in those baskets or is it better to have just a lot of smaller streams of incomes that together builds up a lots of streams and maybe, you know, what are the pros and cons of each if there are any? That was a long question. Joanna (13m 47s): Well, there's a couple of, a couple of questions to kind of fire at people less than, um, you know, one is what is a full time income. So this differs from in so many ways. You know, if you are, it's that, say you're listening and you're single and you're renting and you don't have kids, you don't, you know, you don't have a lot of debt. That is a very different situation to someone. You know, he might be in there my age, you know, mid forties maybe has a mortgage, has some kids in school, you know the definition and there's obviously if you live in New York city versus the middle of, you know, Sheffield here or places that might be cheaper to live. So that would be one thing that you have to decide what is a full time income that needs to be the number one thing. The second thing needs to be what do you want to do full time? So, uh, for example, I mentioned Lindsey broker. Say Lindsey Lindsey is a friend of mine and um, she has obviously the six figure author podcast, which I highly recommend, but Lindsey, right all the time, you know, she has said that she does sometimes 10 hour days writing now there is a different personality and a different type of author. No one is the same type of author. But when I compare myself to Lindsey, she writes every day for that many hours, say sh maybe she puts in a 40, 50 hour week on the actual writing I write. But I generally write maybe two hours a day. So maybe I put in a 10 hour a week in terms of writing fiction. Um, so if you look at how we make a living that is going to be reflected in the work that we do and that we want to do. So when I, you know, as I said, I've been doing this full time for almost 10 years now since I left my job in, in 2011 and I have never wanted to make a full time income from fiction. I wanted to be an author, entrepreneur. So this is the thing. Who are you as a personality? I cannot help myself. I don't think you can either. I mean if you, you know, if you, you end up going, Oh, I really want to write this nonfiction book. I really want to do this course because they want to help other people. I really want to podcast because I want to talk about the things I care about. And I think you come from a business background. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we just can't help ourselves. So there are other people listening who might be like Lindsay, he literally, all they want to do is write those white fantasy books all day. So what you end up with is the desire to do different things also feeds into the multiple stream of income idea. Um, and that's really important because we don't want you to be miserable. You know, you don't want to give up your job and then find you hate it. I th I would go nuts if I tried to write fiction as a full time job. That's just not how our brains work. I am very happy writing a couple of novels a year, couple of nonfiction, do a course, etc. So that's that. That covers the first say two questions. How much do you want to make? What is a fulltime living to what kind of person are you and what type of work is going to make you happy? Because at the end of the day, we all have to work. You just have to choose what you want to work out. Okay, so let's get onto the multiple streams. So I have, I have so many, like many hundreds at this point of streams of income, and they're, as you say, there were two kind of basics, active ones and passive ones, and then what kind of half passive, nothing. Nothing is truly passive, unfortunately. But if we take am, I know you've done a podcast on Scrivener, for example. So I have a tutorial on Scrivener. I have a tutorial on vellum. Do you, do you use vellum vellum yet? Okay, so velum for anyone listening is am formatting software. I love it. So I have a tutorial on vellum, um, on my, on my website, the creative penn.com and I have an affiliate link. So an affiliate link is commission. So if somebody uses my link and buys vallum or by Scrivener, then I get some money. Now, I recorded that video several years ago. It just sits on my website. People come to the website and I get money every month from they software platforms. Now it's a useful video. You don't have to by using my link. And it's kind of evergreen as about as passive as you can get in terms of an income stream. So what's, what is the problem in doing that? You just have to spend a couple of hours making a tutorial video that will help your audience. Um, so that's, uh, an idea of passive. I don't believe book sales are passive income because you really have to market these days. You can get some residual sales. So I always say to my husband, if I died, it will probably take two years before the sales wizard to nothing unless you do some marketing. So am books or certainly not passive income, uh, doing a course. So I know you do courses. I do courses and I don't launch my courses. They're all evergreen, which means again, they sit on my website and you can buy them anytime. So again, in a way they're kind of passive. Um, and then just some ideas about active income streams. So one, obviously both of us do a podcast and I have a pantry on I think. Do you have a pantry on? Yeah, yeah we do. Yeah, I thought you did. Um, so pantry on is an active income stream because if you don't produce a podcast you will not get any money from your patrons. Thank you patrons. By the way, everyone listening you are wonderful. We love you. Um, um, in fact I dedicated my latest book audio for authors. It's dedicated to the lessons of my podcast and especially my patrons because, Oh, perfect. Yeah, because I they really make, not make me but drive me back to the microphone every week. Okay. So pay Patrion and also just for those of you who write Lindsay again bringing Lindsay up cause she's a fantasy or the. I figure, have you had Lindsey on your show? Yes, we actually did. Yes. Oh, there we go. Okay. So Lindsay also has a pantry on for her books. So T she does something smart. She releases her books to her patrons first and then puts them in Kau. So she actually gets around the exclusivity by, you know, giving, basically selling them to her patrons on a pre-release, then putting them in Kau. And then when the series is done, she eventually, she puts it wide. So she's got a really good model. Then, um, the other, the other person, um, is, uh, she likes his mirror grant as well. Anyway, there's a lot of writers who put short stories on am pantry on NK Jemisin has a Patriot. I me, she's won all the Hugo awards and everything. Uh, so you patch you on consent and be used for writing, but again, it's an active income stream. And then another one would be speaking. So if you are a successful author, at some point you will be asked to speak, uh, whether that's at a literary festival, which will not pay you, uh, or they'll just pay expenses. Or you could, um, you know, speaking and get paid. You could do your own events, uh, that type of thing. So, and again, that is an active income stream. You have to get people to come along and then you actually have to teach it. So those are a couple of examples of uh, active and slightly passive, more passive income streams. Yeah. I want to circle Jesper (20m 48s): back to the events in, in just a few minutes. But before going there, I th the one thing that I'm quite sure many things many people would be thinking is that, okay, so if we have, if we're doing all of these things, because I agree with what you said before, that it all depends also on what do you want to do. And thus if you want to do it, hopefully it doesn't feel like slave slave work or something like that, then you're happy to do it. Right. But at the same time, if we aren't juggling multiple things here, um, and I know you do a lot, so my question to you was how do you structure your Workday to make sure that you apply enough focus on the different things? Because, um, as you, as you brought up the example with Lindsey, right? If you just writing and your writing eight hours a day and then you do one hour marketing or whatever, then that's pretty simple. But in cases like both us and you were you, your building may be courses, you are tending all kinds of different stuff, but also you're writing some nonfiction and fiction and whatnot. How do you decide where to focus and put enough energy in each one every day? Joanna (21m 54s): Right. Well, I've always done the same that I had a day job to show. Everyone knows I did have a day job for, for the first five years of doing this. So 2006 to 2011 I had a day job and my shed you'll then is the same as now. So I w I do creative work in the mornings and ID marketing and business in the afternoons. So, uh, you know, when I had a day job I would get up at five and I would write, try and do an hour before then going to my day job. And in the evening I would come home and work on the podcast work on my business website. And then at the weekends I was teaching courses and building out the business. So basically I did that for five years. So when I left my job, I already had streams of income. Uh, now I do pretty much the same thing. It's just I go in the morning to a cafe and I write and I work on first draft material and I have to get out of the house because I'm talking to you at my home office and I cannot write first draft material in this office because I'm surrounded by distraction. As you say, I have a lot of other things to do. There's always more email, there's always more stuff to do. But I leave the office and I go and I write. So I know today I did my 2000 words and that's done. And then I go and do some exercise and then I come back here and then the afternoon slash, evening, I do interviews, I do podcasting, I do business accounting, all the things you have to do to run a business. Um, I'll also do course creation and anything kind of more technical in the, in the afternoons. So that is literally it. Um, you, if you're listening in, you're not a morning person, then you're going to have to do it at night. Maybe it's the other way round. Or you could do alternate days. If you literally only have one hour, maybe you can alternate the days or if, if you are just starting out again finish a book. Like don't get distracted by marketing and all these other things until you have a book. I hear, I get way too. Any questions from authors who were like, well, should I do about marketing? And I'm like, you say, how many books do you have that like, Oh, I haven't even finished a first draft. So yeah, finish the book first. But that is how I manage my time. Um, also another tip is I use Google calendar, um, to really manage my time in block in hour blocks, sometimes half hour blocks and everything is highly shed yield. Um, so you know, and when I'm in that time slot, like you and I, right now we have a time slot, we're doing our interview and then the time slot is done and I have another time slot after this. I have a whole load of interviews this afternoon, so I batch tasks and um, basically just focus within the period of time I've allowed, whether or not that's, you know, half an hour or an hour like I did back in the day or now my full time life. Jesper (24m 32s): Yeah. I'm, I'm wondered, uh, not versus autumn for example, autumn is not maintaining a day job, but I'm still maintaining at a day up because I'm kind of in the, in this place where you talked about earlier, right. How much income do you need to replace? And unfortunately, I have too much I need to replace. I'm still doing the day job, so at least on my end as well. Uh, I, I tried, I kind of adopt the same thing as you were saying there in the means that, uh, I can only do my creative stuff, but I, of course I have to do it very early in the morning before I, uh, I do my day job activities, but I can only do creative stuff in the morning because I always feel like afternoon, evening, I'd just too tired. So, but I can easily do marketing stuff and all that stuff in the evening because yeah, with a business background that comes easy to me. So I don't need to use too much brain power doing better. Joanna (25m 21s): Yeah. I think, and that's exactly the same as me. I, I it is much easier to do this kind of stuff than it is to write fiction and actually they I would say to people, and there's some romantic myth that being a full time writer is the goal. That's not necessarily the goal. You know, the goal is to have a great life and to write your books as well. Um, if you look at some of the figures that have come out from the various author organizations, most writers, including most indie writers, do not make very much money at all. So you have to either have multiple streams of income, uh, or you, you keep your job. And in fact, I would also say having a job is great. You know, if you enjoy your job, then keep your job. And I hated my job, so I really wanted to leave my job. And this is the thing, but I, I definitely want to encourage people, look, if you can keep your creative life alongside your day job, then you won't have to do a lot of other things to bring in multi, multi streams of income. You can just focus on your creative work. And in fact, the book big magic by Elizabeth Gilbert, um, she actually says you should support your art. Don't ask your art to support you. And I find that very challenging because of course I do have my art, but I also have my business. Um, so yeah, these are things everyone has to weigh up for themselves. Um, but as somebody told me a long time ago, don't be romantic about you pay your bills and money doesn't money. Jesper (26m 47s): That's a good point. But I wanted to, uh, circled back to the events, uh, that you mentioned a few moments ago. Um, and I guess this is a bit of a sort of a self-serving question because I feel like, uh, you know, where we're going to get you on the podcast, I'm entitled to at least have one self-serving question as well because one of the things that am autumn and I have been discussing, uh, was to whether or not we should look at in the future doing some events on our own, you know, putting something together and maybe either with larger audiences or maybe with smaller intimate audiences, I don't know, but I have all the time been wondering if it is really, if you're looking at it from an income perspective, if it is really a viable way to get an income because it feels to me like if you go with the lots audience, of course you're also going to, uh, you know, we have a lot of work on your hands to organize everything. Um, and of course you need to be able to attract enough of a crowd to actually fund the, the venue that you decide to take out. Um, but if you go with a small crowd then I feel like I think you have to have such a high ticket price that people are not really gonna want to do it or you can only just cover your costs. So I'm just curious a bit about what you experienced when it comes to speaking gigs and events and stuff like that. If it's, is it something that is viable to look at as something you can add money from or is it more like a building your brand name kind of thing? Joanna (28m 20s): Well, again it depends on what type of speaking you're going to do and uh, cause there were all kinds, you know, I have a friend who was a keynote speaker, uh, for places like Google and Facebook and you know, he can get 20 grand for a lunch meeting, right? So if you choose to speak to a corporate audience and you have a topic that is appropriate for corporate events, then you can earn tons. Um, but if you are, let's say your going to do a workshop on fantasy mapmaking, then you are not gonna make much money from that. Um, because the audience won't pay for that for, you know, they're not gonna pay that much for that workshop. So this is where you have to decide your own goal. And whereas for example, you could decide to speak as an author convention, you could do a panel on a work on an author convention and that would help build your brand. As you say, we'll probably sell some of your fantasy map making books. Am may get you some more readers, but you don't do author events for the money because it's, it's just not there. Uh, as, as you say, um, I have, so in terms of actual income, and I may be running as we speak, the Corona virus thing is, uh, having fun with the worlds. Uh, so I was about to actually book a hotel for a am PR in-person event. Um, and I was going to have people, I may still do this, so by the time anyone listens to this, it may well be happening or might be in the future or whatever. But this is the types of things I've done where I have made money. And when I say made money, I mean a couple of thousand pounds in a weekend, which you know, too many people is good money. Um, and also it's a, you know, can be an interesting weekend. So that would be 30 people in an, you know, a decent hotel and the price would be aimed at people who are serious about their writing career. So it's not a one Oh one how to vote a book type of situation. So, so you've got a number of factors there. It's, you know, what are you comfortable doing? And I've been doing professional speaking again for decades, so I know how to run a small event like that. I would never ever run a big event. I think the risk is too high and also it's not fun for me. I'm, I'm an introvert, you know, I don't enjoy big event. Um, uh, so yeah, you have to decide like, who are you, who are the audience, who's going to pay? And so, for example, I, I've had an idea on the back burner for a few years now that I'll write and probably pitched you a traditional publisher in order to aim for that corporate speaking market. I may well still do that as well, but that's where I see if you want to be a speaker, then you can earn money with the right audience. If you want to be a teacher and run small events and, or speaker, author things than it is a much smaller thing. And, you know, speaking at fantasy conventions, that is a brand building so that there's just such a range of, of things. Jesper (31m 8s): Yeah. Yeah, I see what you're saying. But, and I think also, I mean, of course for the corporate speaking market, um, I fully agree with that. Uh, of course from our point of view, we were more looking at the am at like the author community, right? Because we also across the us are aimed at authors and all that sorts of stuff that would, that would be our audience, right? Or other authors, uh, wanting to, uh, go to an event, uh, whatever that may be. Joanna (31m 35s): Yeah. And they and then you have to look at the author market in general and say, yeah, there are some authors with some money. Um, but if you look at the ticket price or most author events, they are not very high. So yes, there are ways you can do it, but you, you have to know your audience and know your value to the audience and what you can deliver that is worth a higher ticket price for example. Jesper (31m 57s): Yeah, that's a, that's a good point. Uh, something we will continue discussing internally, myself and autumn about what we want to do there. But I for for one, I think it could be fun. I mean, uh, of course running podcast running courses, we also do all of that stuff because we like helping other people we like to use. Joanna (32m 14s): Exactly. And that's another reason to do it. But you know, you asked about the money. Jesper (32m 19s): Yeah, yeah. And DB because basically I guess what we're, we're trying to see if there was like an overlap in the Venn diagram here, right. Where it's not going to, it's not because we need to get rich from it, but we do want to earn a bit of money because at the end of the day, eh, going, preparing both, preparing an event but also going to an event, it is taking away time from other things that we could be doing that would earn us money. So it needs to sort of be justified in that sentence as well. So that's something we will think about. But, uh, Joanna (32m 48s): I think you should probably start the pair of you or one of you, whoever, you know, you should pitch for panels at existing events or pitch to do workshops at existing events and then see if you enjoy it basically. Jesper (33m 1s): Yeah. What am has already participated in a couple of different panels in the U S where she's based, a socio read sort of dipped our toes into the pond there. So, uh, okay. But that's good. But that was a bit about the future thinking here. So maybe I could, uh, shift us into another future future Christian media. Do you wanna uh, because I know that you probably like most, uh, unlike most others I guess really like to look into the futuristic stuff. Um, so when I had you on here, I couldn't think of anyone better to ask about where you see stuff like VR and augmented reality come into fiction books. And if this is something we should have authors actually pay some attention to, um, and if we want to pay attention to it, where, where do we look, where do we get those? Like, um, you know, if we want to get in early on some of this stuff, where do we get the inputs and the insights as to how to do stuff like that? Joanna (34m 3s): Well, it's interesting because of course, augmented reality and virtual reality are really starting to take off. And in fact, again, circling back to the, the Corona virus, what we're seeing is share prices in companies that do remote working and remote, you know, experiences are going up. So I think we may even see an acceleration in things like AR and VR because of this am virus, uh, issue. Um, because people will want to do more in VR. So for example, I meant to be speaking, uh, when this goes out, it will have happened or not happened. But I don't know right now where the London book fair is going ahead and I meant to be speaking at an event and, um, you know, I see. If I could speak in virtual reality, then I probably would. So one of w in talking about teaching courses for example, I do think that we're going to see the rise in, you know, there's a lot of digital tickets to events at the moment. You can get to conventions and stuff that in the future, maybe we just deliver those in VR or in terms of marketing. Maybe you and I meet in a, some kind of virtual space and people can attend the virtual space. So I think there'll be a lot of teaching. A lot of events will happen in in via, um, of course, one of the biggest areas it's already ahead of the curve, um, is gaming. Uh, so a good example in the fantasy space of course, is the Witcher. Uh, have you read the books or seeing there? Jesper (35m 28s): I've seen the movie or a series I should say. Joanna (35m 31s): Yeah, well of course, you know, the books have become massive because of the gaming. Um, so what I think is, is the licensing of fantasy universes for gaming and that is a challenge for independence. I do not think AR and VR are things we can do alone. So whereas we can very easily write a book alone, formatted with vellum and you know, pay a cover designer and an editor please but we can basically get books out on our own. Um, I have my own audio booth, I can do audio books on my own, but when it comes to AR, VR, gaming, am adaptation in fantasy worlds into this multimedia space, this is where licensing is going to come into it saying so I really think this is a fascinating area and there's going to be lots more stuff going on. And I know quite a lot of writers who write for gaming worlds, uh, at the moment. That's definitely something that fantasy authors can consider if they want to look at that. That's obviously worked for hire, which we didn't talk about, but that is, you know, like that's the sort of contract jobs. Um, but yeah, um, books to gaming to adaptation to fantasy worlds that are turned into these entertainment experiences that is, that is only going to get bigger. Um, as we get more and more of these streaming services, uh, you know, Disney and Amazon and Netflix and everybody else. So I think that's very exciting. But as I said, the education side, that's probably where I'll be looking, uh, over the next, certainly in the next decade, you know, by the time we get to 20, 30, I think we'll be doing things quite differently. Uh, in terms of podcasting, in terms of marketing, there'll be a lot more that is online in real life if you get what I mean, sort of in, in, in that, in that way. Jesper (37m 11s): Do you think fiction books, uh, you know, for example, Kindle or eBooks, do you think that they will become more interactive in one way or another? Joanna (37m 19s): No, I think it is. The interactivity of an ebook to me is, uh, has to be another product. I think we might, you know, w the formats. So audio books for example, I'm thinking of adapting some of my audio books and audio book is a straight read of a text. Right? But I can rewrite my books as am audio dramas. So I've written quite a lot of screenplays for my books, um, but audio dramas as cheaper to produce. So I'm definitely thinking of that. But they in terms of the interactivity, people get that from gaming. People get that from other formats of, uh, work. So I do think that the ebook, uh, is not something that will become interactive. Uh, I think it'll just be something different. So it might be an augmented reality experience, whatever you call that. So they for example, I've written some books, some crime books that are set along the South bank of London. And I've thought about, well, maybe I could do an augmented reality tour of that area of London. So if you walk around there, I'll be there next to you talking about the place. Um, I have thought about that, but again, I think we have to consider these things as different formats. And also going beyond being independent to licensing. So we haven't really talked about licensing, it's all but, um, we have copyright in our creative work and we can license it to different people to do different things. So I think Indies have mastered doing things ourselves, the basic stuff, but we're going to have to get a lot more comfortable with licensing if we want to move into these more extended worlds. Jesper (38m 54s): Right. And do you think all this VR, augmented reality and stuff, do you think that this is something that would be good to get, you know, get going early or getting as an early adopter of that? Or is it better to wait until it becomes a bit more mainstream and maybe the cost goes down to produce it and stuff like that? Joanna (39m 13s): Uh, I don't think you can get into this early as an independent. Uh, I can't see how you can, it's not like you can buy a piece of software like vellum and then make something unless you're a programmer. Um, getting involved with that, to me as a creative, I can't see a way to get involved in it early. Jesper (39m 30s): No, no, I agree. Let me, let me clarify what I meant. What I meant was more to really pay a lot of focus on what is happening in the market and sort of have your finger on the pulse and then if, if a company comes out with some sort of solution that can be used from a, from an author perspective, then that you jump in really early on and start moving on it. Or is it better to sort of wait, because I, I, what I'm thinking is that if you jump in early, the cost will also be significantly higher. Uh, whereas if you wait until it's like a proven product that, that people know that this stuff is working, then probably the cost will go down. But of course then everybody is doing it and you're not getting the early mover advantage there. So that was more my question. I think I didn't explain it well enough. Joanna (40m 13s): Well, I think everyone has to decide what they're interested in. Uh, so you know, I've been podcasting since 2009 so I was clearly into podcasting before it went mainstream. Thus, I was able to take advantage of being an early mover in the space. Um, but I am not, I don't have, I'm not a gamer so I don't have any gaming headset. If you are a gamer listening, you probably have, uh, you know, you might already have an AR headset. There are lots of different they they've been going, you know, the virtual reality headsets have been going for years now. So I think people will cheat. You have to choose what you're interested in and follow that and it will likely be the stuff you already do for fun. So for me it's always been audio. For other people it might be gaming. Jesper (40m 58s): Okay, fair enough. All right, well time flies when you're having fun here. So maybe a to F to finish off am is there anywhere a place where you want to direct our listeners to if, if they want to know more about you and what you're doing? Joanna Joanna (41m 15s): yes. If you'd like podcasting, which presumably you do say, come on over to the creative Penn podcast family, the Dublin, uh, that is my podcast for authors. I have a nother podcast called books and travel, which is obviously about books and travel and am that is the booksandtravel and yeah, basically I think, um, if people have questions, probably the best places Twitter at the creative Penn but it's definitely a really interesting time to be a writer. And being a fancy writer in particular is definitely a great time to write fantasy so I appreciate what you you and awesome are doing with this show. Jesper (41m 54s): Oh, thank you. And thank you very much for coming on today. Do you wanna Joanna (41m 57s): no worries. Thanks so much. Yes. For Jesper (42m 1s): all right, so, uh, I hope you've got a lot out of that conversation with the Joanna Penn and the next week autumn we'll be back and we will be back into our old groove again. Narrator (42m 13s): If you like what you just heard, there's a few things you can do to support the amwritingfantasy podcast. Please tell a fellow author about the show and visit us at Apple podcast and leave a rating and review. You can also join autumn and Yesper on patrion.com/amwritingfantasy for as little as a dollar a month. You'll get awesome rewards and keep the amwritingfantasy podcast going. Stay safe out there and see you next Monday.
How do you deal with the fear of judgment as a writer? Show Notes: Hello Indie Authors! I'm Valerie Ihsan, and this is Season Two, Episode 23 of the podcast and it's 9/3/2019 as I record this. Main Topic: Fear of Judgement But first the personal update segment: • Course work for Sweet Spot Strategy. It's all about sweetening the deal and settling on my pricing for this particular signature service. • Some Passion Planner news coming up in the next week's episode, so check back in then for that tidbit. • If you want to talk to me for a 30-minute interview and tell me what your challenges are and what you think can help you, you can book yourself a call at indieauthormentor.as.me and choose the Interview Call option. • I'M READING: In fiction, just finished JF Penn's Map of Plagues and now I've started Joe Wilkins debut novel, Fall Back Down When I Die; Non-fiction: Jeff Goins' Real Artists Don't Starve. PATREON: No new patrons this week. I'd like to remind everybody that this podcast is sponsored by my supporters at Patreon. For as low as a $1/mo, you can get a shout out on the podcast, a monthly connections video where I'm just myself and share something more personal than I put out on the podcast, and at other tiers, the benefits increase--free books, free editing, and free coaching. Become a patron of the arts, and of me! Find me at Patreon.com/valerieihsan. Resources: My Patreon page. BECAUSE, at the $25/mo level, you will get a 30-minute coaching call with me every month. They will be recorded, so you can keep a collection of advice on hand and won't need to take notes during our conversation. This is LESS EXPENSIVE than if you were to buy a regular coaching session with me. In fact, it's a 33% discount. So, go check it out at Patreon.com/valerieihsan. And now: Fear of Judgement I battled with this for decades. I'm 45 and I've been judged my whole life, about something or another. Even if we claim to be non-judgmental people, we still judge. Well, we categorize. That's a bit different. More like labeling people, which is a form of judgment. When you judge a book by its cover, you are saying, "I will like this book because the cover looks professional and I know it's written in a particular genre that I like to read." That's more categorizing. But if we look at it and say, "I won't like this book because the cover looks boring and so the book must be boring," probably we are judging it. Without checking inside to make sure. Now, because there are millions of titles out there, we have to judge a little. We have to categorize. We simply don't have the time (nor inclination) to read every title out there. So when we put our books out into the world and people don't read them, don't despair. You just haven't identified your audience yet. Or, you have and they just don't know about your book yet. The people that are passing on it are the ones that don't read in your genre, or the book description indicates it's a topic they probably won't be interested in. (Categorization.) I've done a lot of work around fear of judgment, stemming back to my cultish upbringing and permeating into my romantic relationships. It wasn't until I'd worked through most of that self-delusion and fear of judgment that I was emotionally open to finally meet the right man and now I'm happily married to him. But that's not what this podcast is about. What it is about is looking at that fear of judgment that you might have. Because I thought I'd worked through so much of my past baggage, I didn't think I had any residual fear of judgment, but, I discovered, that was false. A few years ago, I was working through the workbook edition of Joanna Penn's The Successful Author Mindset, and that question came up. "What are you self-censoring? What are you afraid of sharing for fear of judgment by other people?" I was pretty stunned at the answer within. It was a long journal entry, but what it boiled down to was, "What if everything I write is misinterpreted as being thinly-veiled autobiography--and it's not?" Joanna's answer was to "write another book, because who we are right now changes and the next book is something else again." The chapter ended with a quote from Elizabeth Gilbert in Big Magic: "The reaction to your art does not belong to you--and that is the only sane way to create." And that's it for Fear of Judgment. Next week I'll go over the process of monthly reviews and how that can help you with confidence in your projects and in your business.
Today's guest has written 28 books and sold over 500,000 books in 84 countries and 5 languages. But it didn't start that way. In 2007, when her first book didn't sell, she resolved to solve that problem by learning marketing and the book publishing industry. And that she did, so well in fact that today, Joanna Penn is an Award-nominated, New York Times and USA Today bestselling thriller author, who also writes and publishes non-fiction books and courses for authors. In 2011, after 3 years of research, study and application, Joanna Penn and her husband downgraded their lifestyle so they could leave their jobs and focus full time on Joanna's author business. Today, Joanna—along with her husband and business partner—run their own small press publishing company, Curl Up Press. In addition to being a prolific fiction and non-fiction author, Joanna teaches authors how to make a living from your books through her courses and books, along with a ton of free information on her fabulous podcast and website… called… what else but, TheCreativePenn.com. We're thrilled to welcome none other than the lovely Joanna Penn! Conversation Points:Joanna's story and background Writing her first book Making the leap from job to self-employed The craft versus the business Downsizing lifestyle in the beginning Starting with your end goals as a writer Joanna's creative and business habits How Joanna started writing fiction Helping her dad publish a book Co-writing a book with her mom How Joanna plans her year Maintaining health as a creator Creating habits around your lifestyle Travel, research, and goals for books Joanna's new podcast Multiple income streams Future of voice and voice AI for authors Final advice for writers Joanna's future goals and vision “Figure out who you are, what you want, and your definition of success. Then figure out what you're willing to do, to get to that.”~Joanna Penn, author, podcaster, writer RESOURCEShttps://www.thecreativepenn.com/timeline/ (The Creative Penn website (Joanna's non-fic site)) https://jfpenn.com/ (JF Penn website (Joanna's novels)) https://www.amazon.com/Joanna-Penn/e/B002BM8ICW/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_2&qid=1561056548&sr=1-2&linkCode=ll2&tag=icd-p-20&linkId=c4d21b79d961e286ca9210326ad5fb3c&language=en_US (Joanna's non-fiction books on Amazon) https://www.amazon.com/J-F-Penn/e/B00AVLL4WG/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1561056502&sr=8-1&linkCode=ll2&tag=icd-p-20&linkId=affea23eb1280d179897d08499c3a2a8&language=en_US (Joanna's fiction books on Amazon) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnFC-s2nOtI (Deep Fake Voice AI) http://icreatedaily.com/90-day-goals-journal (90 Day Goals Journal & Planner) https://icreatedailypodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Joanna-Penn-Quote.jpg () https://www.icreatedaily.com/gratitude-journal/ (A movement for creators serious about their art.)https://www.icreatedaily.com/free-goals-planner/ (The Day is the Way.)https://www.icreatedaily.com/store/ (iCreateDaily!)
Write Club The Podcast | For Aspiring Writers, Published Authors & Readers Everywhere
Nicola reads from her WIP, Steph shares a Word Of The Week, we update listeners on Our Writing Lives and Bambi Lynn, JF Penn and Peter Flannery tell us how they became self-published authors, giving us some great tips along the way. Nicola and Graham Smith share what's on their respective bedside tables. Write Club The Podcast is a weekly show for aspiring writers, published authors and readers everywhere. Join Stephanie Rouse, Theresa Stoker, Heather Worsley, Linda Jack Werlein, Pat Woolfe & Nicola Cairncross each week where they'll share guest readings and interviews, along with what they're reading, what they're writing and what it's really like to be an aspiring writer. You can join in the weekly "Name the Novel" quiz and find out "What's On The Bedside Table?"
Write Club The Podcast | For Aspiring Writers, Published Authors & Readers Everywhere
We interview the prolific author JF Penn about her spiritual thrillers, Pat kills off another of her protagonists, then Heather tells her about her word of the week. We have a discussion about spiritual and religious fiction and Steph and founder of the Cymera Festival, Ann Landmann tell us what's on their respective bedside tables. Write Club The Podcast is a weekly show for aspiring writers, published authors and readers everywhere. Join Stephanie Rouse, Theresa Stoker, Heather Worsley, Linda Jack Werlein, Pat Woolfe & Nicola Cairncross each week where they'll share guest readings and interviews, along with what they're reading, what they're writing and what it's really like to be an aspiring writer. You can join in the weekly "Name the Novel" quiz and find out "What's On The Bedside Table?"..
The life of an Indie writer is a busy one – what with writing, taking care of business, family life, eating, exercising and down time – so is it any wonder we need a little help occasionally to re-align our priorities, and get our lives back into balance. https://writerontheroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Joanna.jpg () Today’s guest, Joanna Penn, teamed up with Dr Evan Lawson to write The Healthy Writer, and in it she shares her personal journey to achieving balanced, healthy writing lifestyle. Walking, yoga, sleep, community and a healthy workspace are a few of the things we touch on, but Joanna also shares the importance of comparing ourselves only to where we’ve come from and not to others, learning to stop and take a break, and framing our challenges in a positive way. Joanna is an award-nominated New York Times & USA Today Bestselling Author of Thrillers and she also writes non-fiction. Starting her writing journey in 2010 here in Oz with The Year of the Novel, she’s gone on to publish nine non-fiction books and seventeen fiction stories. She talks about the importance of scheduling, of finishing what you start and building a body of work. You can learn more about Joanna and her non-fiction books https://www.thecreativepenn.com/ (here) and her thrillers, written as JF Penn, https://jfpenn.com/ (here.) https://writerontheroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Pauls-Course-pic-e1523509076847.jpg () This week’s sponsor is Paul Brodie’s The Book Publishing For Authors Implementation Program. You can find out more http://www.brodieedu.com/services (here.)
Mark interviews Joanna Penn of www.thecreativepenn.com about her latest book The Healthy Writer: Reduce Your Pain, Improve Your Health, And Build A Writing Career For The Long Term (co-authored with Dr. Euan Lawson) and they also have a discussion about trends in publishing and speculation about the opportunities that might be coming for writers. In his introduction to the episode, Mark announces that Findaway Voices is now an official sponsor. He shares his own experience with using Findaway Voices to create audiobooks and also his plans for some forthcoming projects. In Mark's interview with Joanna, they talk about: The new book Joanna has co-written with Dr. Euan Lawson (The Healthy Writer) as a book she has written because it was something she needed to learn The “letter to sugar” that Joanna shares in the new book and how it was affecting both her physical and mental health How the decision to co-author this title came about (measuring the value that each brings to the project) and how Joanna and Euan worked on it together How Joanna balances her three different personas (JF Penn, dark fantasy/thriller author; Joanna Penn, the optimistic writing and publishing personality, and Penny Appleton, the co-authored books she is writing with her mother) The critical importance of scheduling one's time into blocks of activities, including “time off” from particular types of activities The role that personal connections can play in terms of building and sustaining a sense of community for a writer How Joanna incorporates business related travel and decisions on which events to agree to speak at for helping with research for her fiction projects The state of “burn-out” Joanna had reached almost two years ago and what inspired her to double-down on her own podcast instead of letting it go A strategy for how writers and entrepreneurs can approach out-sourcing some of the work they need to do for their own goals and objectives What has changed in the writing and publishing industry since Joanna started as a blogger and a podcaster almost ten years ago The thing that surprised Joanna the most about what happened in publishing in the past year The challenges that come with being an early adopter in the digital publishing space The potential forthcoming shifts that are likely to be coming within the book industry within the next few years and what it means to authors The story structure, drama, character development and masterfully storytelling from particular movies and television program like The Crown, which are also areas of opportunity for writers What the advent of self-driving cars might mean for content creation and distribution In his post interview wrap-up, Mark shares a short section from The Healthy Writer that has resonated with him, discusses the importance of optimism in a writer's life, and then shares his own plans to train for a half-marathon later this year and how that ties back to an inspirational talk that Joanna gave in a backlist episode from her own The Creative Penn Podcast about a 100 Kilometer ultra marathon that she completed and what that taught her about her own writing. This podcast was sponsored by Findaway Voices – a company that gives authors and publishers everything they need to create professionally-narrated audiobooks and reach listeners in more than 170 countries through the world's largest audiobook distribution network Links of interest: The Creative Penn (Joanna Penn's website) Joanna Penn on Twitter Euan Lawson (Doctor and writer) Euan Lawson on Twitter The Healthy Writer Joanna's 9 Lessons Learned about Writing (from the KWL Blog – Episode 74) Findaway Voices
Joanna Penn (aka author JF Penn) discusses the indie writing and publishing life and the importance of determination, commitment, and patience.
Joanna Penn is the epitome of the author/entrepreneur Joanna Penn is a New York Times and USA Today best selling author of thrillers and non-fiction who has achieved her success through independent publishing. She is the author of the hugely successful ARKANE thrillers - (as JF Penn) and is about to release the eighth book in the series ‘Destroyer of Worlds’ - available from 21st April 2016. Her website, www.thecreativepenn.com is consistently voted one of the top 10 blogs and resources for writers. Joanna also writes extensively about the business of self publishing and is a sought after public speaker. In Episode 15 of the eBook Revolution, Joanna talks with Geoff Hughes about her new thriller - Destroyer of Worlds and shares some insights behind her inspiration and working processes. You can get all the show notes right here:www.madhousemedia.com.au/joanna-penn-interview/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Arts Chats with Linda Fisler is issuing a challenge for 2015 and Linda will be interviewing UK’s author and writing business adviser Joanna Penn (the Creative Penn) to help you get started writing! The Challenge? Write a book (art book, coffee table book of your art,etc) or at least start a journal! Now is the time! Start a journal if you have not started one. Turn that journal into a book. All those lessons learned and discoveries you have made along your artful journey can be shared and enjoyed by other artists, family and friends. Joanna and Linda will help you get started! Joanna Penn and Linda will be discussing their journey which includes leaving very successful careers in the corporate world to becoming the artists they are today. Joanna will provide inspiration and advice on starting a journal, how to journal each day, and how to build networks of individuals to help you along the way. Become the creative entrepreneur you always wanted to be! Joanna Penn is a New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of thrillers on the edge, as well as non-fiction for authors. She is also a professional speaker and entrepreneur, voted as one of The Guardian UK Top 100 creative professionals 2013.Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/LindaRiesenbergFisler)
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